From iamseawolf at gmail.com Tue Aug 1 10:01:09 2006 From: iamseawolf at gmail.com (seawolf) Date: Tue, 1 Aug 2006 11:01:09 +0100 Subject: DNA Wallpaper idea In-Reply-To: <44CD7797.8080305@redhat.com> References: <9c3bfa1d0607301338w6ada2628jc19972acce762e6b@mail.gmail.com> <44CD7797.8080305@redhat.com> Message-ID: <9c3bfa1d0608010301n4256e109w983d90c5944c13e1@mail.gmail.com> On 31/07/06, M?ir?n Duffy wrote: > Do you have any ideas for the background? There's a lot of analogies you > could draw between DNA (a biological 'code') and software... plus > analogies you can draw between how open source software works (kind of > heritage/genealogical thing going on with distros 'inheriting' things > from different upstreams) and DNA being passed on down through a family. > > I was thinking maybe a stream of DNA strands coming from the right > fading into 1's and 0's on the left... maybe highlighting the f's in the > strands along the way... I did think about the 1 0 idea but that might look a bit clich? because of th "Matrix" thing. I'll give it a pop anyways and see how it goes. Like the strands on your idea (http://www.deviantart.com/deviation/37183342/). Really, the backgrounds could be: [1] 1/0, [2] computer evolution image manip. somehow [3] a KDESVN icon style have-that-bit-from-there-and-that-form-over-there lines drawing (see http://img72.imageshack.us/img72/5424/kdesvnlogo1kb0.png) Again, more playing X-D -- ..// seawolf //.. e-mail / msn / icq / yahoo iamseawolf (at) gmail (dot) com http://clik.to/seawolfsanctuary fedora core 5 : artwork GnuPG Available - ask me! From jirxjax at centrum.cz Tue Aug 1 19:40:08 2006 From: jirxjax at centrum.cz ( =?iso-8859-2?Q?Ji=F8=ED?= Jakub =?iso-8859-2?Q?=20Ma=B9ek?=) Date: Tue, 01 Aug 2006 21:40:08 +0200 Subject: the alternative FEDORA logos archive Message-ID: <200608012140.7974@centrum.cz> Hi, I created the archive with SVG files of the alternative FEDORA logo, it could be found on http://juiceoff.8m.com ......................JJM From nicu_fedora at nicubunu.ro Wed Aug 2 05:27:45 2006 From: nicu_fedora at nicubunu.ro (Nicu Buculei) Date: Wed, 02 Aug 2006 08:27:45 +0300 Subject: the alternative FEDORA logos archive In-Reply-To: <200608012140.7974@centrum.cz> References: <200608012140.7974@centrum.cz> Message-ID: <44D037D1.3040905@nicubunu.ro> Ji?? Jakub Ma?ek wrote: > Hi, I created the archive with SVG files of the alternative FEDORA logo, it could be found on http://juiceoff.8m.com Please allow me to make a minor correction (probably it sounds like nitpicking): is *an* alternative logo, not *the* alternative logo. -- nicu Cool Fedora wallpapers: http://fedora.nicubunu.ro/wallpapers/ Open Clip Art Library: http://www.openclipart.org my Fedora stuff: http://fedora.nicubunu.ro From jirxjax at centrum.cz Wed Aug 2 13:51:28 2006 From: jirxjax at centrum.cz ( =?iso-8859-2?Q?Ji=F8=ED?= Jakub =?iso-8859-2?Q?=20Ma=B9ek?=) Date: Wed, 02 Aug 2006 15:51:28 +0200 Subject: an alternative FEDORA logo Message-ID: <200608021551.29802@centrum.cz> Hi, anything added to http://juiceoff.8m.com.................JJM From iamseawolf at gmail.com Wed Aug 2 15:06:26 2006 From: iamseawolf at gmail.com (seawolf) Date: Wed, 2 Aug 2006 16:06:26 +0100 Subject: an alternative FEDORA logo In-Reply-To: <200608021551.29802@centrum.cz> References: <200608021551.29802@centrum.cz> Message-ID: <9c3bfa1d0608020806y486ad1a8u48062744f220db33@mail.gmail.com> On 02/08/06, Ji?? Jakub Ma?ek wrote: > Hi, anything added to http://juiceoff.8m.com.................JJM > Please try to reply to messages rather than starting new threads. This keep the achives tidy and is easier on email accounts too. I know your english isn't great but please just stick to the rules! ( http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/MailinglistGuidelines > #2 ) Thanks. -- ..// seawolf //.. e-mail / msn / icq / yahoo iamseawolf (at) gmail (dot) com http://clik.to/seawolfsanctuary fedora core 5 : artwork GnuPG Available - ask me! From jirxjax at centrum.cz Wed Aug 2 15:43:55 2006 From: jirxjax at centrum.cz ( =?iso-8859-2?Q?Ji=F8=ED?= Jakub =?iso-8859-2?Q?=20Ma=B9ek?=) Date: Wed, 02 Aug 2006 17:43:55 +0200 Subject: an alternative FEDORA logo In-Reply-To: <9c3bfa1d0608020806y486ad1a8u48062744f220db33@mail.gmail.com> References: 200608021551.29802@centrum.cz> <200608021551.29802@centrum.cz> <9c3bfa1d0608020806y486ad1a8u48062744f220db33@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <200608021743.9314@centrum.cz> Hi, I'm sorry, I didn't want to make difficulties................................JJM ______________________________________________________________ > Od: iamseawolf at gmail.com > Komu: "Discussions about the artwork included with Fedora, including icons, themes, and wallpapers." > Datum: 02.08.2006 17:06 > P?edm?t: Re: an alternative FEDORA logo > >On 02/08/06, Ji?? Jakub ?Ma?ek wrote: >> Hi, anything added to http://juiceoff.8m.com.................JJM >> > >Please try to reply to messages rather than starting new threads. This >keep the achives tidy and is easier on email accounts too. I know your >english isn't great but please just stick to the rules! ( >http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/MailinglistGuidelines > #2 ) > >Thanks. > >-- > ? ? ? ..// seawolf //.. > ?e-mail / msn / icq / yahoo >iamseawolf (at) gmail (dot) com >http://clik.to/seawolfsanctuary > > ? fedora core 5 ?: ?artwork > ? GnuPG Available - ask me! > >_______________________________________________ >Fedora-art-list mailing list >Fedora-art-list at redhat.com >http://www.redhat.com/mailman/listinfo/fedora-art-list > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From dfong at redhat.com Thu Aug 3 07:34:02 2006 From: dfong at redhat.com (Diana Fong) Date: Thu, 03 Aug 2006 03:34:02 -0400 Subject: The Icon Question In-Reply-To: <44B82153.60203@redhat.com> References: <1150445204.2807.67.camel@MrTomLinux.workstation> <52548.194.94.224.254.1150454840.squirrel@arlette.freesurf.fr> <1150471903.2807.136.camel@MrTomLinux.workstation> <4492D149.8070804@redhat.com> <4492EA08.3010304@nicubunu.ro> <449311F0.10505@redhat.com> <44B807B9.9070307@redhat.com> <44B82153.60203@redhat.com> Message-ID: <44D1A6EA.9000202@redhat.com> Greetings everyone... _Update_ I was working with J5 on trying to get these icons into fc6test2 as I had mentioned previously. It, however, did not happen. While I had created many of the icons (75)...the coverage was insufficient and so was not included. Nonetheless, I am hopeful and continuing my work on populating the set...aiming to have a decent amount of coverage in the fc6 timeframe. For those that are interested, I have also spent this week cleaning up my vector files and uploading the svgs + pngs to the wiki page [1]. If anyone would like to contribute, please let me know...even helping with an icon or two would be great. My internet connection at the moment is a bit weak and so I will upload the .tar tomorrow morning...or rather, in a few hours after I wake up. I'll also be starting a new thread with more information about the icon set (sizes, guidelines, and the such). Thanks, Diana [1] http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Artwork/BluecurveAndBeyond/Gallery Diana Fong wrote: > Cool. =) > I've been working with J5 (RedHat-artwork packager) on testing these > out. Hopefully it'll make it into fc6t2. > Diana > > > Leon wrote: >> >> I'm a big fan of this icon set:-) >> >> Now it's also a good time to push it for the fedora core 6 test 2 to >> get more feedback. Do we have to inform the redhat-artwork packager to >> include these icons? >> >> Thanks, >> > > _______________________________________________ > Fedora-art-list mailing list > Fedora-art-list at redhat.com > http://www.redhat.com/mailman/listinfo/fedora-art-list From mola at c100c.com Thu Aug 3 20:30:54 2006 From: mola at c100c.com (Mola pahnadayan) Date: Fri, 04 Aug 2006 00:00:54 +0330 Subject: Icon , Redo - Undo Message-ID: <1154637054.3341.4.camel@localhost.localdomain> -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: edit-redo.svg Type: image/svg+xml Size: 11415 bytes Desc: not available URL: -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: edit-undo.svg Type: image/svg+xml Size: 11623 bytes Desc: not available URL: From sdl.web at gmail.com Thu Aug 3 22:10:09 2006 From: sdl.web at gmail.com (Leon) Date: Thu, 03 Aug 2006 23:10:09 +0100 Subject: Icon , Redo - Undo In-Reply-To: <1154637054.3341.4.camel@localhost.localdomain> (Mola pahnadayan's message of "Fri, 04 Aug 2006 00:00:54 +0330") References: <1154637054.3341.4.camel@localhost.localdomain> Message-ID: Thank you Mola. They look great. Do you mind adding your icons to the wiki: http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Artwork/BluecurveAndBeyond/Gallery -- Leon Mola pahnadayan writes: > _______________________________________________ > Fedora-art-list mailing list > Fedora-art-list at redhat.com > http://www.redhat.com/mailman/listinfo/fedora-art-list From sundaram at fedoraproject.org Thu Aug 3 22:13:02 2006 From: sundaram at fedoraproject.org (Rahul) Date: Fri, 04 Aug 2006 03:43:02 +0530 Subject: Icon , Redo - Undo In-Reply-To: References: <1154637054.3341.4.camel@localhost.localdomain> Message-ID: <44D274EE.5040405@fedoraproject.org> Leon wrote: > Thank you Mola. They look great. > > Do you mind adding your icons to the wiki: > > http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Artwork/BluecurveAndBeyond/Gallery > That would require signing the CLA so that we have your permission to distribute them in a suitable Free license. Lets wait for artist comments before doing that process though. Rahul From dfong at redhat.com Thu Aug 3 22:46:17 2006 From: dfong at redhat.com (Diana Fong) Date: Thu, 03 Aug 2006 18:46:17 -0400 Subject: New Icon Set...[echo]... Message-ID: <44D27CB9.606@redhat.com> Hi, Thanks for all the feedback and interest in the new icon set. I've recently updated the wiki [1] with .svgs and .pngs for those that are interested. The original aim was to create some really fast and test them out in FC6test2 but the 75 I did was not enough to provide adequate coverage and was therefore not included. Nevertheless, I am hopeful and am aiming to have a decent amount of coverage in the fc6 timeframe. For those that would like to check out the icons and obtain the files, I've posted a .tar.gz of them as well [2]. Unfortunately, even in that state, it's 30M...crazy, I know. Maybe someone with .svg skills can help slim down the files. I've also put a .tar.gz of only the .pngs [3], which is much smaller so you don't need to download the whole thing if you're just interested in the actual icons. I'm currently naming it "echo"...in the spirit of tango and foxtrot...but we'll see how that goes legally and whatnot. =) I know there are quite a few people on this list that are very talented who I hope will be able to help build on this. There's currently no procedure to this...just make, submit/post...might come up with something once we get a few submissions. OOO! Just saw a couple in my inbox from Mola...awesome! =D Will also be setting up a simple page with some guidelines soon but if you base it off the existing ones posted, it should be good. =) The isometric grid can be found at [4]. There's definitely lots to do and not all has to be making new icons, help is also needed on creating simplified versions of the icons to look good in the 16x16 size and whatnot. Do let me know if you'd like to help but don't know where to start. A couple of quick guides now... 1. The icons listed in the Actions section should be pretty much "head-on" or "on table view". 2. All 16x16 icons should also be "head-on"/"on table view" with no shadow...it get's messy at that size. Thanks, Diana [1] http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Artwork/BluecurveAndBeyond/Gallery [2] http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Artwork/BluecurveAndBeyond/Gallery?action=AttachFile&do=get&target=echo_0.10.tar.gz [3] http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Artwork/BluecurveAndBeyond/Gallery?action=AttachFile&do=get&target=echo48_0.10.tar.gz [4] http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Artwork/BluecurveAndBeyond?action=AttachFile&do=get&target=isometric_grid.svg From dfong at redhat.com Thu Aug 3 22:55:54 2006 From: dfong at redhat.com (Diana Fong) Date: Thu, 03 Aug 2006 18:55:54 -0400 Subject: Icon , Redo - Undo In-Reply-To: <44D274EE.5040405@fedoraproject.org> References: <1154637054.3341.4.camel@localhost.localdomain> <44D274EE.5040405@fedoraproject.org> Message-ID: <44D27EFA.4010100@redhat.com> Woot! Thanks Mola. It does look really good. =) Rahul, please elaborate on what's involved/needed to proceed? Diana...yeay! =) Rahul wrote: > Leon wrote: >> Thank you Mola. They look great. >> >> Do you mind adding your icons to the wiki: >> >> http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Artwork/BluecurveAndBeyond/Gallery >> > > That would require signing the CLA so that we have your permission to > distribute them in a suitable Free license. Lets wait for artist > comments before doing that process though. > > Rahul > > _______________________________________________ > Fedora-art-list mailing list > Fedora-art-list at redhat.com > http://www.redhat.com/mailman/listinfo/fedora-art-list From sundaram at fedoraproject.org Thu Aug 3 23:16:58 2006 From: sundaram at fedoraproject.org (Rahul) Date: Fri, 04 Aug 2006 04:46:58 +0530 Subject: Icon , Redo - Undo In-Reply-To: <44D27EFA.4010100@redhat.com> References: <1154637054.3341.4.camel@localhost.localdomain> <44D274EE.5040405@fedoraproject.org> <44D27EFA.4010100@redhat.com> Message-ID: <44D283EA.7000202@fedoraproject.org> Diana Fong wrote: > Woot! Thanks Mola. It does look really good. =) Ok. That decides it then. > Rahul, please elaborate on what's involved/needed to proceed? > Its pretty simple. We need all our artwork contributors to sign the Fedora contributor license agreement which gives the project the rights to license the code and content in a appropriate Free license. It would probably be GPL or Creative Commons attribution share alike license for artwork but thats not vetted yet by our legal team. Contributors need to go through the process outlined in thttp://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Infrastructure/AccountSystem Patrick Barnes and others in our infrastructure team can help in any further questions. Hope that helps. Rahul From nicu_fedora at nicubunu.ro Fri Aug 4 07:03:45 2006 From: nicu_fedora at nicubunu.ro (Nicu Buculei) Date: Fri, 04 Aug 2006 10:03:45 +0300 Subject: New Icon Set...[echo]... In-Reply-To: <44D27CB9.606@redhat.com> References: <44D27CB9.606@redhat.com> Message-ID: <44D2F151.70509@nicubunu.ro> Diana Fong wrote: > Maybe someone with .svg skills can help slim down the files. Is possible to greatly reduce the size even without any svg skills, here is one example: accessories-calculatorL.svg has 491.5 KB, open it in Inkscape, select all, copy and paste in a new document, optionally a little ungrouping and grouping and vacuum defs and the result is a 52.4KB - http://fedora.nicubunu.ro/echo/accessories-calculatorL_1.svg notes: - 52.4KB is still large IMO, but it would take huge manual work to reduce the size - I am not sure, but I suspect I lost the drop shadow in the process, but NO tool on my FC5 system was able to display a shadow in your initial SVG anyway (tried with Firefox, eog, Inkscape) -- nicu Cool Fedora wallpapers: http://fedora.nicubunu.ro/wallpapers/ Open Clip Art Library: http://www.openclipart.org my Fedora stuff: http://fedora.nicubunu.ro From mola at c100c.com Fri Aug 4 11:04:42 2006 From: mola at c100c.com (Mola pahnadayan) Date: Fri, 04 Aug 2006 14:34:42 +0330 Subject: Icon , Mail send-recive Message-ID: <1154689482.10159.2.camel@localhost.localdomain> Hi , It's good or not good ? -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: mail_send_recive.scg.svg Type: image/svg+xml Size: 11549 bytes Desc: not available URL: From nicu_fedora at nicubunu.ro Fri Aug 4 11:21:39 2006 From: nicu_fedora at nicubunu.ro (Nicu Buculei) Date: Fri, 04 Aug 2006 14:21:39 +0300 Subject: Icon , Mail send-recive In-Reply-To: <1154689482.10159.2.camel@localhost.localdomain> References: <1154689482.10159.2.camel@localhost.localdomain> Message-ID: <44D32DC3.5090401@nicubunu.ro> Mola pahnadayan wrote: > Hi , > It's good or not good ? Have you seen the mail sent by Diana earlier? https://www.redhat.com/archives/fedora-art-list/2006-August/msg00010.html Try to use the same isometric grid and perspective: http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Artwork/BluecurveAndBeyond?action=AttachFile&do=get&target=isometric_grid.svg The Wiki is still broken now (http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Artwork/BluecurveAndBeyond/Gallery), so I can't point more precisely to other samples, but I think you should also adjust the outline (a gradient instead of black) and maybe use a gradient as fill color for the envelope. -- nicu Cool Fedora wallpapers: http://fedora.nicubunu.ro/wallpapers/ Open Clip Art Library: http://www.openclipart.org my Fedora stuff: http://fedora.nicubunu.ro From nicu_fedora at nicubunu.ro Fri Aug 4 13:21:46 2006 From: nicu_fedora at nicubunu.ro (Nicu Buculei) Date: Fri, 04 Aug 2006 16:21:46 +0300 Subject: New Icon Set...[echo]... In-Reply-To: <44D2F151.70509@nicubunu.ro> References: <44D27CB9.606@redhat.com> <44D2F151.70509@nicubunu.ro> Message-ID: <44D349EA.4020305@nicubunu.ro> Nicu Buculei wrote: > Diana Fong wrote: >> Maybe someone with .svg skills can help slim down the files. > > > Is possible to greatly reduce the size even without any svg skills, here > is one example: accessories-calculatorL.svg has 491.5 KB, open it in > Inkscape, select all, copy and paste in a new document, optionally a > little ungrouping and grouping and vacuum defs and the result is a > 52.4KB - http://fedora.nicubunu.ro/echo/accessories-calculatorL_1.svg Well, how about 14.4 KB for the same image? I'll say *a lot* better... http://fedora.nicubunu.ro/echo/accessories-calculatorL_2.svg I deleted all buttons except one, grouped the two shapes (white button face and its shadow), used "clone" to create the other buttons, unlinked the clone for the "enter" key, adjusted its shape (bigger height), vacuum defs and saved. Conclusion: clone usage can be a real file size saver (coupled with vacuuming unused definitions). -- nicu Cool Fedora wallpapers: http://fedora.nicubunu.ro/wallpapers/ Open Clip Art Library: http://www.openclipart.org my Fedora stuff: http://fedora.nicubunu.ro From sdl.web at gmail.com Fri Aug 4 02:48:42 2006 From: sdl.web at gmail.com (Leon) Date: Fri, 04 Aug 2006 03:48:42 +0100 Subject: New Icon Set...[echo]... In-Reply-To: <44D27CB9.606@redhat.com> (Diana Fong's message of "Thu, 03 Aug 2006 18:46:17 -0400") References: <44D27CB9.606@redhat.com> Message-ID: Diana Fong writes: > Hi, > > > I know there are quite a few people on this list that are very > talented who I hope will be able to help build on this. There's > currently no procedure to this...just make, submit/post...might come > up with something once we get a few submissions. OOO! Just saw a > couple in my inbox from Mola...awesome! =D > > Will also be setting up a simple page with some guidelines soon but if > you base it off the existing ones posted, it should be good. =) The > isometric grid can be found at [4]. There's definitely lots to do and > not all has to be making new icons, help is also needed on creating > simplified versions of the icons to look good in the 16x16 size and > whatnot. Do let me know if you'd like to help but don't know where to > start. > > A couple of quick guides now... > 1. The icons listed in the Actions section should be pretty much > "head-on" or "on table view". 2. All 16x16 icons should also be > "head-on"/"on table view" with no shadow...it get's messy at that > size. > > Thanks, > Diana > > > > [1] http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Artwork/BluecurveAndBeyond/Gallery > [2] > http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Artwork/BluecurveAndBeyond/Gallery?action=AttachFile&do=get&target=echo_0.10.tar.gz > [3] > http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Artwork/BluecurveAndBeyond/Gallery?action=AttachFile&do=get&target=echo48_0.10.tar.gz > [4] > http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Artwork/BluecurveAndBeyond?action=AttachFile&do=get&target=isometric_grid.svg > Here are those 48x48 png images packaged as an icon theme. Hope more people can test and provide feedback to our artists. -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: Echo.tar.gz Type: application/x-gzip Size: 519940 bytes Desc: Echo.tar.gz URL: -------------- next part -------------- -- Leon From sdl.web at gmail.com Fri Aug 4 18:00:35 2006 From: sdl.web at gmail.com (Leon) Date: Fri, 04 Aug 2006 19:00:35 +0100 Subject: Add this list to gmane Message-ID: Hi there, I'd suggest we add this list to gmane?. What do you think? Regards, Footnotes: ? http://gmane.org/add.php -- Leon From dfong at redhat.com Fri Aug 4 19:44:29 2006 From: dfong at redhat.com (Diana Fong) Date: Fri, 04 Aug 2006 15:44:29 -0400 Subject: New Icon Set...[echo]... In-Reply-To: <44D349EA.4020305@nicubunu.ro> References: <44D27CB9.606@redhat.com> <44D2F151.70509@nicubunu.ro> <44D349EA.4020305@nicubunu.ro> Message-ID: <44D3A39D.3060709@redhat.com> Nicu Buculei wrote: > Nicu Buculei wrote: >> Diana Fong wrote: >>> Maybe someone with .svg skills can help slim down the files. >> >> Is possible to greatly reduce the size even without any svg skills, >> here is one example: accessories-calculatorL.svg has 491.5 KB, open >> it in Inkscape, select all, copy and paste in a new document, >> optionally a little ungrouping and grouping and vacuum defs and the >> result is a 52.4KB - >> http://fedora.nicubunu.ro/echo/accessories-calculatorL_1.svg > > Well, how about 14.4 KB for the same image? I'll say *a lot* better... > http://fedora.nicubunu.ro/echo/accessories-calculatorL_2.svg > > I deleted all buttons except one, grouped the two shapes (white button > face and its shadow), used "clone" to create the other buttons, > unlinked the clone for the "enter" key, adjusted its shape (bigger > height), vacuum defs and saved. > > Conclusion: clone usage can be a real file size saver (coupled with > vacuuming unused definitions). > 491.5 -> 52.4 -> 14.4...Awesome Nicu! As for the shadow, it's added after, I can't get it to look right in the vector file...so it's not lost. Will you be uploading this to the wiki? Thanks... Diana From dfong at redhat.com Fri Aug 4 20:04:08 2006 From: dfong at redhat.com (Diana Fong) Date: Fri, 04 Aug 2006 16:04:08 -0400 Subject: Icon , Mail send-recive In-Reply-To: <44D32DC3.5090401@nicubunu.ro> References: <1154689482.10159.2.camel@localhost.localdomain> <44D32DC3.5090401@nicubunu.ro> Message-ID: <44D3A838.8070403@redhat.com> The wiki is currently broken...I've contacted people on the Fedora admin group to look into it, hopefully it'll be fixed soon. Mola, your "Redo" and "Undo" icons were good, they fit very well with the others. This current "mail send-receive" icon is nice but does not fit with the rest of the icons. Some tips to help: 1. "Mail-send-receive" is in the "Action" section and should just be "head on"/"on table" view (flat). 2. Out lines should not be solid black...try using one of the gray gradients I have in a posted svg. Hmmm...I just realized that there has to be a way to tell who is working on what...or there will be a lot of overlapping. Ok, if you want to work on an icon...call dibs on an icon...go to the wiki page and tag that row with "" (I will fill in a few as an example)...maybe put your name there so people know who to ask if it hasn't been filled for awhile. If you do not have access/an account please send a note to this list. Please only claim the ones you are/will working on. Thanks Diana Nicu Buculei wrote: > Mola pahnadayan wrote: >> Hi , >> It's good or not good ? > > Have you seen the mail sent by Diana earlier? > https://www.redhat.com/archives/fedora-art-list/2006-August/msg00010.html > > Try to use the same isometric grid and perspective: > http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Artwork/BluecurveAndBeyond?action=AttachFile&do=get&target=isometric_grid.svg > > > The Wiki is still broken now > (http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Artwork/BluecurveAndBeyond/Gallery), so > I can't point more precisely to other samples, but I think you should > also adjust the outline (a gradient instead of black) and maybe use a > gradient as fill color for the envelope. > From mola at c100c.com Sat Aug 5 07:51:00 2006 From: mola at c100c.com (Mola pahnadayan) Date: Sat, 05 Aug 2006 11:21:00 +0330 Subject: Access on wiki Message-ID: <1154764260.12750.1.camel@localhost.localdomain> Hi , I create the an acount on wiki but not have access , account "MolaPahnadyan". -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From tchung at fedoraproject.org Sat Aug 5 07:56:44 2006 From: tchung at fedoraproject.org (Thomas Chung) Date: Sat, 5 Aug 2006 00:56:44 -0700 Subject: Access on wiki In-Reply-To: <1154764260.12750.1.camel@localhost.localdomain> References: <1154764260.12750.1.camel@localhost.localdomain> Message-ID: <369bce3b0608050056n5f91fdf5s9c95961d02e65a68@mail.gmail.com> On 8/5/06, Mola pahnadayan wrote: > > Hi , > I create the an acount on wiki but not have access , > account "MolaPahnadyan". Hi Mola, Please sign CLA using Fedora Account System[1] then ask to be added to EditGroup[2]. [1] http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Infrastructure/AccountSystem [2] http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/EditGroup Regards, -- Thomas Chung http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/ThomasChung From mola at c100c.com Sat Aug 5 09:19:41 2006 From: mola at c100c.com (Mola pahnadayan) Date: Sat, 05 Aug 2006 12:49:41 +0330 Subject: Access on wiki In-Reply-To: <369bce3b0608050056n5f91fdf5s9c95961d02e65a68@mail.gmail.com> References: <1154764260.12750.1.camel@localhost.localdomain> <369bce3b0608050056n5f91fdf5s9c95961d02e65a68@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <1154769581.13140.5.camel@localhost.localdomain> On Sat, 2006-08-05 at 00:56 -0700, Thomas Chung wrote: > On 8/5/06, Mola pahnadayan wrote: > > > > Hi , > > I create the an acount on wiki but not have access , > > account "MolaPahnadyan". > > Hi Mola, > Please sign CLA using Fedora Account System[1] then ask to be added to > EditGroup[2]. > [1] http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Infrastructure/AccountSystem > [2] http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/EditGroup > Regards, I sign CLA . -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From chabotc at xs4all.nl Sat Aug 5 14:08:36 2006 From: chabotc at xs4all.nl (Chris Chabot) Date: Sat, 05 Aug 2006 16:08:36 +0200 Subject: New Icon Set...[echo]... In-Reply-To: <44D27CB9.606@redhat.com> References: <44D27CB9.606@redhat.com> Message-ID: <44D4A664.7010709@xs4all.nl> Hi Diana, I'm still getting:"Attachment 'echo_0.10.tar.gz' does not exist!" on the wiki page. -- Chris Diana Fong wrote: > Hi, > > Thanks for all the feedback and interest in the new icon set. I've > recently updated the wiki [1] with .svgs and .pngs for those that are > interested. The original aim was to create some really fast and test > them out in FC6test2 but the 75 I did was not enough to provide > adequate coverage and was therefore not included. > Nevertheless, I am hopeful and am aiming to have a decent amount of > coverage in the fc6 timeframe. For those that would like to check out > the icons and obtain the files, I've posted a .tar.gz of them as well > [2]. Unfortunately, even in that state, it's 30M...crazy, I know. > Maybe someone with .svg skills can help slim down the files. I've > also put a .tar.gz of only the .pngs [3], which is much smaller so you > don't need to download the whole thing if you're just interested in > the actual icons. I'm currently naming it "echo"...in the spirit of > tango and foxtrot...but we'll see how that goes legally and whatnot. =) > > I know there are quite a few people on this list that are very > talented who I hope will be able to help build on this. There's > currently no procedure to this...just make, submit/post...might come > up with something once we get a few submissions. OOO! Just saw a > couple in my inbox from Mola...awesome! =D > > Will also be setting up a simple page with some guidelines soon but if > you base it off the existing ones posted, it should be good. =) The > isometric grid can be found at [4]. There's definitely lots to do and > not all has to be making new icons, help is also needed on creating > simplified versions of the icons to look good in the 16x16 size and > whatnot. Do let me know if you'd like to help but don't know where to > start. > > A couple of quick guides now... > 1. The icons listed in the Actions section should be pretty much > "head-on" or "on table view". 2. All 16x16 icons should also be > "head-on"/"on table view" with no shadow...it get's messy at that size. > > Thanks, > Diana > > > > [1] http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Artwork/BluecurveAndBeyond/Gallery > [2] > http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Artwork/BluecurveAndBeyond/Gallery?action=AttachFile&do=get&target=echo_0.10.tar.gz > > [3] > http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Artwork/BluecurveAndBeyond/Gallery?action=AttachFile&do=get&target=echo48_0.10.tar.gz > > [4] > http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Artwork/BluecurveAndBeyond?action=AttachFile&do=get&target=isometric_grid.svg > > > _______________________________________________ > Fedora-art-list mailing list > Fedora-art-list at redhat.com > http://www.redhat.com/mailman/listinfo/fedora-art-list From dfong at redhat.com Sat Aug 5 15:44:03 2006 From: dfong at redhat.com (Diana Fong) Date: Sat, 05 Aug 2006 11:44:03 -0400 Subject: New Icon Set...[echo]... In-Reply-To: <44D4A664.7010709@xs4all.nl> References: <44D27CB9.606@redhat.com> <44D4A664.7010709@xs4all.nl> Message-ID: <44D4BCC3.4020808@redhat.com> Chris Chabot wrote: > Hi Diana, > > I'm still getting:"Attachment 'echo_0.10.tar.gz' does not exist!" on > the wiki page. > > -- Chris Gah! The whole Fedoraproject.org site not even loading at the moment. O_O Though just before it broke, I checked and the file doesn't exist anymore. Nor does any record of it exit in the wiki's history. I'm baffled...and a bit worried about what else might be lost but haven't been noticed. Ok, I've loaded the temporarily to... SVG+PNG: http://people.redhat.com/dfong/icons/echo_0.10b.zip 48x48 PNG: http://people.redhat.com/dfong/icons/echo48_0.10b.zip 48x48 png images packaged as an icon theme by Leon: http://people.redhat.com/dfong/icons/Echo.tar.gz Diana ps. the "b" version is not the same as the original, I've included the recent icons submitted in there as well...it's only about 8 more than last time...Leon's tar is based on the original set. From david at lovesunix.net Sat Aug 5 21:45:17 2006 From: david at lovesunix.net (David Nielsen) Date: Sat, 05 Aug 2006 23:45:17 +0200 Subject: New Icon Set...[echo]... In-Reply-To: <44D4BCC3.4020808@redhat.com> References: <44D27CB9.606@redhat.com> <44D4A664.7010709@xs4all.nl> <44D4BCC3.4020808@redhat.com> Message-ID: <1154814317.3059.56.camel@price> l?r, 05 08 2006 kl. 11:44 -0400, skrev Diana Fong: > Chris Chabot wrote: > > Hi Diana, > > > > I'm still getting:"Attachment 'echo_0.10.tar.gz' does not exist!" on > > the wiki page. > > > > -- Chris > > > Gah! The whole Fedoraproject.org site not even loading at the moment. O_O > Though just before it broke, I checked and the file doesn't exist > anymore. Nor does any record of it exit in the wiki's history. I'm > baffled...and a bit worried about what else might be lost but haven't > been noticed. > > Ok, I've loaded the temporarily to... > > SVG+PNG: http://people.redhat.com/dfong/icons/echo_0.10b.zip > 48x48 PNG: http://people.redhat.com/dfong/icons/echo48_0.10b.zip > 48x48 png images packaged as an icon theme by Leon: > http://people.redhat.com/dfong/icons/Echo.tar.gz > > Diana > ps. the "b" version is not the same as the original, I've included the > recent icons submitted in there as well...it's only about 8 more than > last time...Leon's tar is based on the original set. The following might seem cruel, I apologize in advance. The icons look decent when they are big but when applied to my desktop it's a completely different case. The highlights on the back/forth buttons makes them look washed out and faint, in other words really really bad, like they have no outline, no shape. The size difference between those icons and the pause one makes the pause button look HUGE and very defined, it just doesn't look like they are meant to fit together. The size relation issue seems to be fairly common, a good way to see this issue is going to the Theme settings applet and look at the difference between the Install icon and the remove icon. Add is HUGE it also has a strange highlight effect that makes it look a bit odd (it looks bigger in the buttom than the top - color choice causes this I suspect), the remove icon just below it looks like a tiny blue blob of paint. When looking in the menus it doesn't get much better, the prespective makes the icons look small and the amount of details turns them into tiny blobs of paint, it's literally impossible to tell what information the icons are trying to convey. Which is after all the purpose of icons, without the explanatory text next them it's close to impossible tell the purpose - to simulate, set your language to something you can't read and try to navigate the menus.. not a fun experience to be honest. The biggest offenders here would be the Office and Graphics entries. Compared to the current Bluecurve icons Echo seems to lack clearly defined outlines which makes them much less usable especially at small sizes, likes those we use by default in our menus - the single most used iconsize on the Fedora desktop as far as I can tell. I admire the effort but honestly if this makes the default desktop for FC6 I feel it would do the users a major disservice. It would hurt usability for the majority of users, especially those of us with slightly less than perfect eyesight. There is sadly no nice way to say this, so in the interest of being brutally honest for the good of our users. Echo is plagued with issues and is only a giantic step down from Bluecurve or Tango visually. The icons look decent only when they are huge like the way they are displayed on the wiki but on the actual desktop they are nothing short of a disaster. My apologies for any hurt egos, David From duffy at redhat.com Sun Aug 6 07:15:07 2006 From: duffy at redhat.com (=?UTF-8?B?TcOhaXLDrW4gRHVmZnk=?=) Date: Sun, 06 Aug 2006 03:15:07 -0400 Subject: DNA wallpapper In-Reply-To: <200607310749.18678@centrum.cz> References: <200607310749.18678@centrum.cz> Message-ID: <44D596FB.5070402@redhat.com> Ji?? Jakub Ma?ek wrote: > Hi, seawolf, hi people, good idea, I can add only this: take care on geometry of elements, there are seen pieces of dark blue element under the light blue one. .....................JJM So I did yet another iteration of this. I actually worked on it at the Gimp/Inkscape/Blender booth at SIGGRAPH in Boston this past week to show off Inkscape to passers-by! :) http://www.deviantart.com/deviation/37508168/ Here are the fixes I made based on some of the feedback I've got: * the shading is improved. I'm using two separate gradients - one bold gradient for the strand-halves that are getting direct line, and one more muted gradient for strand-halves 'in the shade.' * the blues are blue rather than purple-y :) they're compatible with the fedora logo blue colors. * some of the lines in the DNA strands were connected sloppily. Should be aligned much better now. * the DNA base pairs are now the fedora 'f' and the infinity symbol rather than just the 'f' ~m From jfrieben at freesurf.fr Sun Aug 6 09:35:36 2006 From: jfrieben at freesurf.fr (Joachim Frieben) Date: Sun, 6 Aug 2006 11:35:36 +0200 (CEST) Subject: New Icon Set...[echo]... In-Reply-To: <1154814317.3059.56.camel@price> References: <1154814317.3059.56.camel@price> Message-ID: <28001.194.94.224.254.1154856936.squirrel@jose.freesurf.fr> I can only second David's judgement which completely agrees with my previous comments on the new icon theme, e.g. here: http://www.redhat.com/archives/fedora-art-list/2006-June/msg00029.html where I have been e.g. particularly critical about the missing outlines. A photorealistic icon theme simply doesn't work at the fairly small standard icon sizes used in "GNOME". When you are on "OS X", this is quite different as most icons are way bigger (panel!). People ranted about "Bluecurve" for being cartoonish, but as a matter of fact, "Tango" is cartoonish too (!), and that is exactly why its icons are so ergonomic and well recognizable at the icons sizes we are concerned with. You only have to look at the new Fedora "System Monitor" icon adopted from the "Tango" theme which is cleaner than its stock "GNOME" precursor which appeared rather blurred. Btw, can anybody take care of the new "grave cross" used in "Add" buttons? ... This is really too much, hehe ;) > > There is sadly no nice way to say this, so in the interest of being > brutally honest for the good of our users. Echo is plagued with issues > and is only a giantic step down from Bluecurve or Tango visually. The > icons look decent only when they are huge like the way they are > displayed on the wiki but on the actual desktop they are nothing short > of a disaster. > > My apologies for any hurt egos, > David > From chabotc at xs4all.nl Sun Aug 6 09:56:59 2006 From: chabotc at xs4all.nl (Chris Chabot) Date: Sun, 06 Aug 2006 11:56:59 +0200 Subject: New Icon Set...[echo]... In-Reply-To: <1154814317.3059.56.camel@price> References: <44D27CB9.606@redhat.com> <44D4A664.7010709@xs4all.nl> <44D4BCC3.4020808@redhat.com> <1154814317.3059.56.camel@price> Message-ID: <44D5BCEB.7010805@xs4all.nl> Thought i'd weigh in with a different opinion.. Personally i'm wildly enthusiastic about the new icon theme, their stylish and give a professional and 'finished' and 'high quality' look to Fedora. I'm counting the days until we can have this set completed so i can leave the old Bluecurve icon set behind. Now the critique that these icons do not work well as small icons, well i don't know if you ever noticed but normally an icon has 2 or 3 versions, one thats more 'photo realistic' for the large view (nautlius browsing, control-center, etc), and a smaller version for the places which you indicate, toolbar menu's and panel menu's etc.. These smaller icons are 'simplified' versions of their larger brothers and sisters since in so few pixels its very hard to convey so much graphical information, and as you pointed out, when you try to convey so much information in just a few pixels, it just becomes kind of a paint blob.. hence the column 'Small' at http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Artwork/BluecurveAndBeyond/Gallery Not filled in yet, but i presume that this column will be filled-in in time with the smaller simplified versions of the icons, which don't turn into 'paint blobs' in 22x22 pixels.. even perspective might sometimes be 'flat' in the smaller icons to, as you point out, have max visual information room in such a small area. As an example (and the same is true for all icon sets) look at: http://www.iconbase.com/iconbase/aero.html See how the smallest icons are much simplified from their larger versions, and even loose perspective? Of course they are valid points that should be thought of (small version of the icons) but to write "to be brutally honest, this is a huge step down from bluecurve" sounds to like an intend to be negative and not fair nor honest. My 0.2$ -- Chris Chabot David Nielsen wrote: > l?r, 05 08 2006 kl. 11:44 -0400, skrev Diana Fong: > >> Chris Chabot wrote: >> >>> Hi Diana, >>> >>> I'm still getting:"Attachment 'echo_0.10.tar.gz' does not exist!" on >>> the wiki page. >>> >>> -- Chris >>> >> Gah! The whole Fedoraproject.org site not even loading at the moment. O_O >> Though just before it broke, I checked and the file doesn't exist >> anymore. Nor does any record of it exit in the wiki's history. I'm >> baffled...and a bit worried about what else might be lost but haven't >> been noticed. >> >> Ok, I've loaded the temporarily to... >> >> SVG+PNG: http://people.redhat.com/dfong/icons/echo_0.10b.zip >> 48x48 PNG: http://people.redhat.com/dfong/icons/echo48_0.10b.zip >> 48x48 png images packaged as an icon theme by Leon: >> http://people.redhat.com/dfong/icons/Echo.tar.gz >> >> Diana >> ps. the "b" version is not the same as the original, I've included the >> recent icons submitted in there as well...it's only about 8 more than >> last time...Leon's tar is based on the original set. >> > > The following might seem cruel, I apologize in advance. > > The icons look decent when they are big but when applied to my desktop > it's a completely different case. The highlights on the back/forth > buttons makes them look washed out and faint, in other words really > really bad, like they have no outline, no shape. The size difference > between those icons and the pause one makes the pause button look HUGE > and very defined, it just doesn't look like they are meant to fit > together. The size relation issue seems to be fairly common, a good way > to see this issue is going to the Theme settings applet and look at the > difference between the Install icon and the remove icon. Add is HUGE it > also has a strange highlight effect that makes it look a bit odd (it > looks bigger in the buttom than the top - color choice causes this I > suspect), the remove icon just below it looks like a tiny blue blob of > paint. > > When looking in the menus it doesn't get much better, the prespective > makes the icons look small and the amount of details turns them into > tiny blobs of paint, it's literally impossible to tell what information > the icons are trying to convey. Which is after all the purpose of icons, > without the explanatory text next them it's close to impossible tell the > purpose - to simulate, set your language to something you can't read and > try to navigate the menus.. not a fun experience to be honest. The > biggest offenders here would be the Office and Graphics entries. > > Compared to the current Bluecurve icons Echo seems to lack clearly > defined outlines which makes them much less usable especially at small > sizes, likes those we use by default in our menus - the single most used > iconsize on the Fedora desktop as far as I can tell. > > I admire the effort but honestly if this makes the default desktop for > FC6 I feel it would do the users a major disservice. It would hurt > usability for the majority of users, especially those of us with > slightly less than perfect eyesight. > > There is sadly no nice way to say this, so in the interest of being > brutally honest for the good of our users. Echo is plagued with issues > and is only a giantic step down from Bluecurve or Tango visually. The > icons look decent only when they are huge like the way they are > displayed on the wiki but on the actual desktop they are nothing short > of a disaster. > > My apologies for any hurt egos, > David > > _______________________________________________ > Fedora-art-list mailing list > Fedora-art-list at redhat.com > http://www.redhat.com/mailman/listinfo/fedora-art-list > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From jfrieben at freesurf.fr Sun Aug 6 10:50:43 2006 From: jfrieben at freesurf.fr (Joachim Frieben) Date: Sun, 6 Aug 2006 12:50:43 +0200 (CEST) Subject: New Icon Set...[echo]... In-Reply-To: <44D5BCEB.7010805@xs4all.nl> References: <44D5BCEB.7010805@xs4all.nl> Message-ID: <37916.194.94.224.254.1154861443.squirrel@arlette.freesurf.fr> When I look at the current "Echo" icon pack, I'd say that all three subdirectories "22x22", "24x24", "48x48" contain the same set of icons, albeit at different scales. This invalidates your argument, sorry .. > These smaller icons are 'simplified' versions of their larger brothers > and sisters since in so few pixels its very hard to convey so much > graphical information, and as you pointed out, when you try to convey > so much information in just a few pixels, it just becomes kind of a > paint blob.. hence the column 'Small' at > http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Artwork/BluecurveAndBeyond/Gallery Not > filled in yet, but i presume that this column will be filled-in in time > with the smaller simplified versions of the icons, which don't turn > into 'paint blobs' in 22x22 pixels.. even perspective might sometimes > be 'flat' in the smaller icons to, as you point out, have max visual > information room in such a small area. From chabotc at xs4all.nl Sun Aug 6 11:00:08 2006 From: chabotc at xs4all.nl (Chris Chabot) Date: Sun, 06 Aug 2006 13:00:08 +0200 Subject: New Icon Set...[echo]... In-Reply-To: <37916.194.94.224.254.1154861443.squirrel@arlette.freesurf.fr> References: <44D5BCEB.7010805@xs4all.nl> <37916.194.94.224.254.1154861443.squirrel@arlette.freesurf.fr> Message-ID: <44D5CBB8.80908@xs4all.nl> What Diana put online currently is just a preview of a work-in-progress thing, not an 'icon set release', the Echo icon pack is just something someone threw together to be able to get something of an impression of how they look. The different icon sizes are generated from the same .svg's because the smaller versions haven't been made yet You really shouldn't hurt your self, and look at work-in-progress work, if you can't judge and value it for what it is ... its like saying when the first brick of a new house is laid, 'thats not a good house, it doesn't have walls!'. Not very constructive criticism :-) Please if any of this is confusing to you, or makes you sad that things have to actually be 'made' before their 'done', then just wait until an official package is released Joachim Frieben wrote: > When I look at the current "Echo" icon pack, I'd say that all three > subdirectories "22x22", "24x24", "48x48" contain the same set of icons, > albeit at different scales. This invalidates your argument, sorry .. > > >> These smaller icons are 'simplified' versions of their larger brothers >> and sisters since in so few pixels its very hard to convey so much >> graphical information, and as you pointed out, when you try to convey >> so much information in just a few pixels, it just becomes kind of a >> paint blob.. hence the column 'Small' at >> http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Artwork/BluecurveAndBeyond/Gallery Not >> filled in yet, but i presume that this column will be filled-in in time >> with the smaller simplified versions of the icons, which don't turn >> into 'paint blobs' in 22x22 pixels.. even perspective might sometimes >> be 'flat' in the smaller icons to, as you point out, have max visual >> information room in such a small area. >> > > > _______________________________________________ > Fedora-art-list mailing list > Fedora-art-list at redhat.com > http://www.redhat.com/mailman/listinfo/fedora-art-list > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From jfrieben at freesurf.fr Sun Aug 6 11:46:59 2006 From: jfrieben at freesurf.fr (Joachim Frieben) Date: Sun, 6 Aug 2006 13:46:59 +0200 (CEST) Subject: New Icon Set...[echo]... In-Reply-To: <44D5CBB8.80908@xs4all.nl> References: <44D5CBB8.80908@xs4all.nl> Message-ID: <43624.194.94.224.254.1154864819.squirrel@arlette.freesurf.fr> Ok, you might ask Diana then not to ask for feedback, right? > Please if any of this is confusing to you, or makes you sad that things > have to actually be 'made' before their 'done', then just wait until > an official package is released > From thomas.canniot at laposte.net Sun Aug 6 12:13:40 2006 From: thomas.canniot at laposte.net (Thomas Canniot) Date: Sun, 06 Aug 2006 14:13:40 +0200 Subject: New Icon Set...[echo]... In-Reply-To: <43624.194.94.224.254.1154864819.squirrel@arlette.freesurf.fr> References: <44D5CBB8.80908@xs4all.nl> <43624.194.94.224.254.1154864819.squirrel@arlette.freesurf.fr> Message-ID: <1154866420.3748.6.camel@localhost.localdomain> Le dimanche 06 ao?t 2006 ? 13:46 +0200, Joachim Frieben a ?crit : > Ok, you might ask Diana then not to ask for feedback, right? > > > Please if any of this is confusing to you, or makes you sad that things > > have to actually be 'made' before their 'done', then just wait until > > an official package is released > > > > The thing is that she is actually asking for feedbacks. However, you don't seem to help her *improve* Echo, but your argumentation sounds more like "stop doing it, i'm not objective and I want tango in FC." Even if you don't like the idea of not having Tango in FC, that should not prevent you from helping improving something, on how to make it better. That is how we can create a compromise, to make everybody happy. -- Thomas Canniot http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/ThomasCanniot From maestronn at wowway.com Sun Aug 6 12:20:05 2006 From: maestronn at wowway.com (Demond James) Date: Sun, 06 Aug 2006 08:20:05 -0400 Subject: New Icon Set...[echo]... In-Reply-To: <43624.194.94.224.254.1154864819.squirrel@arlette.freesurf.fr> References: <44D5CBB8.80908@xs4all.nl> <43624.194.94.224.254.1154864819.squirrel@arlette.freesurf.fr> Message-ID: <44D5DE75.309@wowway.com> Joachim Frieben wrote: > Ok, you might ask Diana then not to ask for feedback, right? > > No, just know what's going on before you assume and comment incorrectly about the situation. A more helpful approach would be to lend a helping hand in creating the small icons so that they met your standard. The icon set look great so far but it's incomplete. Let work on getting it complete and into the distro. Demond From sdl.web at gmail.com Sun Aug 6 13:05:10 2006 From: sdl.web at gmail.com (Leon) Date: Sun, 06 Aug 2006 14:05:10 +0100 Subject: New Icon Set...[echo]... In-Reply-To: <37916.194.94.224.254.1154861443.squirrel@arlette.freesurf.fr> (Joachim Frieben's message of "Sun, 6 Aug 2006 12:50:43 +0200 (CEST)") References: <44D5BCEB.7010805@xs4all.nl> <37916.194.94.224.254.1154861443.squirrel@arlette.freesurf.fr> Message-ID: "Joachim Frieben" writes: > When I look at the current "Echo" icon pack, I'd say that all three > subdirectories "22x22", "24x24", "48x48" contain the same set of icons, > albeit at different scales. This invalidates your argument, sorry .. > I packaged those icons. What Diana put on line were just 86 icons svg and 48x48. The smaller sized icons were copied and resized from 48x48. I know they look awfully bad at 16x16 that's why 16x16 is not included. >> These smaller icons are 'simplified' versions of their larger brothers >> and sisters since in so few pixels its very hard to convey so much >> graphical information, and as you pointed out, when you try to convey >> so much information in just a few pixels, it just becomes kind of a >> paint blob.. hence the column 'Small' at >> http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Artwork/BluecurveAndBeyond/Gallery Not >> filled in yet, but i presume that this column will be filled-in in time >> with the smaller simplified versions of the icons, which don't turn >> into 'paint blobs' in 22x22 pixels.. even perspective might sometimes >> be 'flat' in the smaller icons to, as you point out, have max visual >> information room in such a small area. > -- Leon From jfrieben at freesurf.fr Sun Aug 6 13:15:01 2006 From: jfrieben at freesurf.fr (Joachim Frieben) Date: Sun, 6 Aug 2006 15:15:01 +0200 (CEST) Subject: New Icon Set...[echo]... In-Reply-To: <1154866420.3748.6.camel@localhost.localdomain> References: <1154866420.3748.6.camel@localhost.localdomain> Message-ID: <50070.194.94.224.254.1154870101.squirrel@arlette.freesurf.fr> Your statement is simply wrong. I never asked for "Tango" being adopted for "Fedora Core" although it might be a better alterative to the aging stock "GNOME" icons in case there doesn't exist a genuine "Fedora Core" icon for a particular item. Moreover, I stated at various occasions based upon objective observations in which sense the current approach appears to be flawed to me (no outlines, low contrast, photorealistic albeit fuzzy icons which are not suitable at smaller icon sizes, ..). It's up to the artwork developers to draw their conclusions for further artwork development in order to achieve the improvement that you mention below. As a matter of fact, even the recommendation of dropping the "Echo" theme completely would present a perfectly admissible and constructive feedback in order to "improve" on the current state in case I thought so. ;) Finally, feedback can only be based on the current implementation, not on some extrapolation of how "Echo" might look some time in the future (with the only exception of current incompleteness which had already been pointed out by the designers). > > The thing is that she is actually asking for feedbacks. However, you > don't seem to help her *improve* Echo, but your argumentation sounds > more like "stop doing it, i'm not objective and I want tango in FC." > > Even if you don't like the idea of not having Tango in FC, that should > not prevent you from helping improving something, on how to make it > better. That is how we can create a compromise, to make everybody > happy. > > -- > Thomas Canniot > http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/ThomasCanniot > > _______________________________________________ > Fedora-art-list mailing list > Fedora-art-list at redhat.com > http://www.redhat.com/mailman/listinfo/fedora-art-list From david at lovesunix.net Sun Aug 6 15:55:10 2006 From: david at lovesunix.net (David Nielsen) Date: Sun, 06 Aug 2006 17:55:10 +0200 Subject: New Icon Set...[echo]... In-Reply-To: <44D5BCEB.7010805@xs4all.nl> References: <44D27CB9.606@redhat.com> <44D4A664.7010709@xs4all.nl> <44D4BCC3.4020808@redhat.com> <1154814317.3059.56.camel@price> <44D5BCEB.7010805@xs4all.nl> Message-ID: <1154879710.2801.58.camel@price> s?n, 06 08 2006 kl. 11:56 +0200, skrev Chris Chabot: > Of course they are valid points that should be thought of (small > version of the icons) but to write "to be brutally honest, this is a > huge step down from bluecurve" sounds to like an intend to be negative > and not fair nor honest. No, I had not intention of being fair, I was being honest, I think if we ship Echo by default it is taking a gigantic step in the direction of screwing our users, especially those of us with poor eyesight. If you don't like my opinion then address my concerns don't attack my person. - David From sdl.web at gmail.com Sun Aug 6 16:15:38 2006 From: sdl.web at gmail.com (Leon) Date: Sun, 06 Aug 2006 17:15:38 +0100 Subject: New Icon Set...[echo]... In-Reply-To: <1154879710.2801.58.camel@price> (David Nielsen's message of "Sun, 06 Aug 2006 17:55:10 +0200") References: <44D27CB9.606@redhat.com> <44D4A664.7010709@xs4all.nl> <44D4BCC3.4020808@redhat.com> <1154814317.3059.56.camel@price> <44D5BCEB.7010805@xs4all.nl> <1154879710.2801.58.camel@price> Message-ID: David Nielsen writes: > s?n, 06 08 2006 kl. 11:56 +0200, skrev Chris Chabot: > >> Of course they are valid points that should be thought of (small >> version of the icons) but to write "to be brutally honest, this is a >> huge step down from bluecurve" sounds to like an intend to be negative >> and not fair nor honest. > > No, I had not intention of being fair, I was being honest, I think if we > ship Echo by default it is taking a gigantic step in the direction of > screwing our users, especially those of us with poor eyesight. If you > don't like my opinion then address my concerns don't attack my person. > > - David > David, Since the Icon is in a very earlier development stage and we still have some time before the final version, it seems it is too soon to judge it. You make a good point about the small size icons. I'm sure the art team will take it into consideration. Besides, to adopt the set or not can be done just before the release and I guess the Bluecurve icons will be included in Fedora core 6 no matter what happens to the new set. Let's wait and see. -- Leon From luya_tfz at thefinalzone.com Sun Aug 6 17:07:33 2006 From: luya_tfz at thefinalzone.com (Luya Tshimbalanga) Date: Mon, 07 Aug 2006 01:07:33 +0800 Subject: New Icon Set...[echo]... Message-ID: > Your statement is simply wrong. I never asked for "Tango" being adopted for > "Fedora Core" although it might be a better alterative to the aging stock > "GNOME" icons in case there doesn't exist a genuine "Fedora Core" icon for a > particular item. Moreover, I stated at various occasions based upon > objective observations in which sense the current approach appears to be > flawed to me (no outlines, low contrast, photorealistic albeit fuzzy icons > which are not suitable at smaller icon sizes, ..). It's up to the artwork > developers to draw their conclusions for further artwork development in > order to achieve the improvement that you mention below. As a matter of > fact, even the recommendation of dropping the "Echo" theme completely would > present a perfectly admissible and constructive feedback in order to > "improve" on the current state in case I thought so. ;) > Finally, feedback can only be based on the current implementation, not on > some extrapolation of how "Echo" might look some time in the future (with > the only exception of current incompleteness which had already been pointed > out by the designers). > The product is not final yet. As pointed out, there is currently no preview about the 16x16 yet. I think it is a bit premature to jump the gun. From jfrieben at freesurf.fr Sun Aug 6 18:21:26 2006 From: jfrieben at freesurf.fr (Joachim Frieben) Date: Sun, 6 Aug 2006 20:21:26 +0200 (CEST) Subject: New Icon Set...[echo]... In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <3070.194.94.224.254.1154888486.squirrel@jose.freesurf.fr> I recommend having a sharp look at the "Echo" icon tar ball: "16x16" icons are simply absent. Consequently, my criticism refers exclusively to the "24x24" ("22x22") icons being used in menus and panels which are the most exposed locations where icons appear. I reported my objections based on what I got after dumping the content of Leon's tar ball into my local ".icons" directory and switching the icon theme to "Echo". I guess "16x16" icons would be significantly worse, but as they are not even included in the tar ball, I obviously cannot comment on them. Thus, your comment is pointless. > > The product is not final yet. As pointed out, there is currently no > preview about the 16x16 yet. I think it is a bit premature to jump the > gun. > From david at lovesunix.net Sun Aug 6 18:55:30 2006 From: david at lovesunix.net (David Nielsen) Date: Sun, 06 Aug 2006 20:55:30 +0200 Subject: New Icon Set...[echo]... In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <1154890530.2801.97.camel@price> man, 07 08 2006 kl. 01:07 +0800, skrev Luya Tshimbalanga: > > Your statement is simply wrong. I never asked for "Tango" being > adopted for > > "Fedora Core" although it might be a better alterative to the aging stock > > "GNOME" icons in case there doesn't exist a genuine "Fedora Core" icon > for a > > particular item. Moreover, I stated at various occasions based upon > > objective observations in which sense the current approach appears to be > > flawed to me (no outlines, low contrast, photorealistic albeit fuzzy icons > > which are not suitable at smaller icon sizes, ..). It's up to the artwork > > developers to draw their conclusions for further artwork development in > > order to achieve the improvement that you mention below. As a matter of > > fact, even the recommendation of dropping the "Echo" theme completely > would > > present a perfectly admissible and constructive feedback in order to > > "improve" on the current state in case I thought so. ;) > > Finally, feedback can only be based on the current implementation, not on > > some extrapolation of how "Echo" might look some time in the future (with > > the only exception of current incompleteness which had already been > pointed > > out by the designers). > > > > The product is not final yet. As pointed out, there is currently no > preview about the 16x16 yet. I think it is a bit premature to jump the gun. That does not remove the need to point out the flaws in the fundamental design of the icons. Saying that it's not final doesn't remove the need to ask for reconsideration, if I took something like Echo to my former workplace which is filled with people with various handicaps I would get laughed out and asked to replace it with something that they could actually use. Echo is just not designed with usability in mind and no amount of fiddling with the smaller icons will fix the fundamental issues with the design as pointed out earlier. We have to accept that this is a tradeoff, we are trading off good usability for what exactly? Echo does not make a good default and making it the default will hurt our usability and the accesability of the Fedora desktop, by design and in the current implementation. If we care even the slightest about our users we have to sit down and rethink the needs of the Bluecurve replacement. - David From nicu_fedora at nicubunu.ro Mon Aug 7 05:37:17 2006 From: nicu_fedora at nicubunu.ro (Nicu Buculei) Date: Mon, 07 Aug 2006 08:37:17 +0300 Subject: New Icon Set...[echo]... In-Reply-To: <1154879710.2801.58.camel@price> References: <44D27CB9.606@redhat.com> <44D4A664.7010709@xs4all.nl> <44D4BCC3.4020808@redhat.com> <1154814317.3059.56.camel@price> <44D5BCEB.7010805@xs4all.nl> <1154879710.2801.58.camel@price> Message-ID: <44D6D18D.70805@nicubunu.ro> David Nielsen wrote: > s?n, 06 08 2006 kl. 11:56 +0200, skrev Chris Chabot: > >> Of course they are valid points that should be thought of (small >> version of the icons) but to write "to be brutally honest, this is a >> huge step down from bluecurve" sounds to like an intend to be negative >> and not fair nor honest. > > No, I had not intention of being fair, I was being honest, I think if we > ship Echo by default it is taking a gigantic step in the direction of > screwing our users, especially those of us with poor eyesight. If you > don't like my opinion then address my concerns don't attack my person. Indeed, if you were fair, you have considered what Diana said *days* before you: "help is also needed on creating simplified versions of the icons to look good in the 16x16 size and whatnot. Do let me know if you'd like to help but don't know where to start" and "All 16x16 icons should also be "head-on"/"on table view" with no shadow...it get's messy at that size" https://www.redhat.com/archives/fedora-art-list/2006-August/msg00010.html -- nicu Cool Fedora wallpapers: http://fedora.nicubunu.ro/wallpapers/ Open Clip Art Library: http://www.openclipart.org my Fedora stuff: http://fedora.nicubunu.ro From david at lovesunix.net Mon Aug 7 08:41:27 2006 From: david at lovesunix.net (David Nielsen) Date: Mon, 07 Aug 2006 10:41:27 +0200 Subject: New Icon Set...[echo]... In-Reply-To: <44D6D18D.70805@nicubunu.ro> References: <44D27CB9.606@redhat.com> <44D4A664.7010709@xs4all.nl> <44D4BCC3.4020808@redhat.com> <1154814317.3059.56.camel@price> <44D5BCEB.7010805@xs4all.nl> <1154879710.2801.58.camel@price> <44D6D18D.70805@nicubunu.ro> Message-ID: <1154940087.2101.31.camel@price> man, 07 08 2006 kl. 08:37 +0300, skrev Nicu Buculei: > David Nielsen wrote: > > s?n, 06 08 2006 kl. 11:56 +0200, skrev Chris Chabot: > > > >> Of course they are valid points that should be thought of (small > >> version of the icons) but to write "to be brutally honest, this is a > >> huge step down from bluecurve" sounds to like an intend to be negative > >> and not fair nor honest. > > > > No, I had not intention of being fair, I was being honest, I think if we > > ship Echo by default it is taking a gigantic step in the direction of > > screwing our users, especially those of us with poor eyesight. If you > > don't like my opinion then address my concerns don't attack my person. > > Indeed, if you were fair, you have considered what Diana said *days* > before you: > "help is also needed on creating simplified versions of the icons to > look good in the 16x16 size and whatnot. Do let me know if you'd like to > help but don't know where to start" > and > "All 16x16 icons should also be "head-on"/"on table view" with no > shadow...it get's messy at that size" > https://www.redhat.com/archives/fedora-art-list/2006-August/msg00010.html I do believe I have prior art on the concern about this new theme, I proposed adopting Tango months ago without seeing any debate (that was on fedora-desktop at that time fedora-art wasn't listed on the wiki or at least I hadn't discovered it.. we are not very good at announcing new lists). At the time the only replies I did get was that if Tango got adopted upstream that would likely be the default so I did not push the issue further deciding to take the work upstream instead. Imagine my surprise when that was my impression and I wake up one day to this new icon theme - we should definitely debate the issue of icon theme vs. system theme later btw. since it's not enough that I can change the icon theme easily when it doesn't fit in the entire system theme (boot, login, icons, sounds, etc.) Thus the availablity of seperate icon themes is a very bad argument for an illconceived system theme, you throw out consistency. I feel I put a great deal of restrain on my opinion, nowhere did I like you resort to vague ad hominem attacks. What is my interest in being fair, would you like it better if I simply padded Diana on the back and told her I loved the new icons when the basic design presents serious issues for people I work with. If I have to go and show off Fedora to my former collegues I will install Human Azul or a similar Tango derived icon theme because those are the only ones aside Bluecurve (which like Echo is appalingly lacking in coverage and getting to the same place as Tango is today will take ages) consider the fact that people might want to look at their icons in an actual desktop setting. I think that is the problem with Echo, they were designed top down, we should start with the most common case for a given icon and optimize that - then scale up or down as needed. This means starting with an icon that works on 16x16/24x24 in most cases, anything else makes puppies cry. Try walking down the street and counting how many people wear glasses - then tell me these are not valid concerns and now isn't the time to bring it up. Before we roll out Echo and get ripped in the press and by our users. In case you haven't guessed already, I am mildly handicapped and I wear glasses - that is why I care so passionately about usability and accessability, I get a small taste of what many of my friends and collegues have to live with every day. I could tell you some inspiring stories of how computers can give handicapped people new lives and why it is a good idea to consider it when designing your system and interface but I'll save that for another day. Echo is kicking people who are already down and I merely question if that is really a good thing. - David From jfrieben at freesurf.fr Mon Aug 7 09:31:02 2006 From: jfrieben at freesurf.fr (Joachim Frieben) Date: Mon, 7 Aug 2006 11:31:02 +0200 (CEST) Subject: New Icon Set...[echo]... In-Reply-To: <44D6D18D.70805@nicubunu.ro> References: <44D6D18D.70805@nicubunu.ro> Message-ID: <8588.194.94.224.254.1154943062.squirrel@arlette.freesurf.fr> Stop being childish: the logical consequence of your reply is that any person not feeling inclined/capable of actively contributing to the actual icon creation process has to shut up, right? There have been some serious objections against the current tendency towards what is called "Echo" theme. Triggered by the new update notification icon, I for myself had argued in various posts as early as back in mid-June, e.g. in https://www.redhat.com/archives/fedora-art-list/2006-June/msg00029.html why I didn't find the current approach compelling. If you don't care about user feedback and start whining when people are critical then stop asking for their opinion. If you want to move away from "Bluecurve", it's up to you to suggest a better alternative and to convince people to embrace it and not the other way round. To summarize: current "Echo" sucks at any icon size less or equal to 24 pixels, and exlicit reasons for this personal judgement had been outlined several times (the 16 pixel ones are even less important because less frequnetly encountered). It's up to you to draw conclusions or not. It's that simple. > > Indeed, if you were fair, you have considered what Diana said *days* > before you: > "help is also needed on creating simplified versions of the icons to > look good in the 16x16 size and whatnot. Do let me know if you'd like > to help but don't know where to start" > and > "All 16x16 icons should also be "head-on"/"on table view" with no > shadow...it get's messy at that size" > https://www.redhat.com/archives/fedora-art-list/2006-August/msg00010.html > > -- > nicu From nicu_fedora at nicubunu.ro Mon Aug 7 09:45:03 2006 From: nicu_fedora at nicubunu.ro (Nicu Buculei) Date: Mon, 07 Aug 2006 12:45:03 +0300 Subject: New Icon Set...[echo]... In-Reply-To: <1154940087.2101.31.camel@price> References: <44D27CB9.606@redhat.com> <44D4A664.7010709@xs4all.nl> <44D4BCC3.4020808@redhat.com> <1154814317.3059.56.camel@price> <44D5BCEB.7010805@xs4all.nl> <1154879710.2801.58.camel@price> <44D6D18D.70805@nicubunu.ro> <1154940087.2101.31.camel@price> Message-ID: <44D70B9F.5090809@nicubunu.ro> David Nielsen wrote: > > I feel I put a great deal of restrain on my opinion, nowhere did I like > you resort to vague ad hominem attacks. What is my interest in being > fair, would you like it better if I simply padded Diana on the back and > told her I loved the new icons when the basic design presents serious > issues for people I work with. The fact is: the need of small size versions was known and acknowledged, no need to attack the new theme for lacking those, giving enough time they will come. > If I have to go and show off Fedora to my former collegues I will > install Human Azul or a similar Tango derived icon theme because those > are the only ones aside Bluecurve (which like Echo is appalingly lacking > in coverage and getting to the same place as Tango is today will take > ages) consider the fact that people might want to look at their icons in Tango theme got where is today in a little under one year, why not give Echo a few months to see where it can get? > an actual desktop setting. I think that is the problem with Echo, they > were designed top down, we should start with the most common case for a > given icon and optimize that - then scale up or down as needed. This > means starting with an icon that works on 16x16/24x24 in most cases, > anything else makes puppies cry. No, is not a good process to start with 16x16/24x24. Even the GNOME HIG recommend drawing at the default size (48x48) and derive the small version (24x24) from it - http://developer.gnome.org/projects/gup/hig/2.0/icons-design.html I suspect this was the workflow used by Jimmac when originally creating Industrial. The same is true for Tango: starting with 48x48: http://tango.freedesktop.org/Tango_Icon_Theme_Guidelines#Suggested_Workflow_.26_Support_Files This being said, I would agree the SVG files have unneeded large and strange resolutions (two examples: 69.52x107.33 and 86.84x92.31) - I suspect this is because those are used only as intermediary versions, not final product (with PNG being the final product) -- nicu Cool Fedora wallpapers: http://fedora.nicubunu.ro/wallpapers/ Open Clip Art Library: http://www.openclipart.org my Fedora stuff: http://fedora.nicubunu.ro From david at lovesunix.net Mon Aug 7 11:31:09 2006 From: david at lovesunix.net (David Nielsen) Date: Mon, 07 Aug 2006 13:31:09 +0200 Subject: New Icon Set...[echo]... In-Reply-To: <44D70B9F.5090809@nicubunu.ro> References: <44D27CB9.606@redhat.com> <44D4A664.7010709@xs4all.nl> <44D4BCC3.4020808@redhat.com> <1154814317.3059.56.camel@price> <44D5BCEB.7010805@xs4all.nl> <1154879710.2801.58.camel@price> <44D6D18D.70805@nicubunu.ro> <1154940087.2101.31.camel@price> <44D70B9F.5090809@nicubunu.ro> Message-ID: <1154950269.2101.77.camel@price> man, 07 08 2006 kl. 12:45 +0300, skrev Nicu Buculei: > > No, is not a good process to start with 16x16/24x24. Even the GNOME HIG > recommend drawing at the default size (48x48) and derive the small > version (24x24) from it - > http://developer.gnome.org/projects/gup/hig/2.0/icons-design.html > I suspect this was the workflow used by Jimmac when originally creating > Industrial. > > The same is true for Tango: starting with 48x48: > http://tango.freedesktop.org/Tango_Icon_Theme_Guidelines#Suggested_Workflow_.26_Support_Files > > This being said, I would agree the SVG files have unneeded large and > strange resolutions (two examples: 69.52x107.33 and 86.84x92.31) - I > suspect this is because those are used only as intermediary versions, > not final product (with PNG being the final product) Admittedly I know very little about visual design in terms of the technical details - however I am rather good with project management and that aspect of things. I've always been a huge fan of concentrating on your core use cases, so I remain of the opinion that starting by putting thought into where you are actually going to use your work is a better idea than starting somewhere random. Not to discard the notion that going big doesn't have it's advantages but if you spend more than 80% of your time fiddling with cases that get hit less than 20% of the time seems like good old fasioned waste to me. Getting a rough idea and an overview is nice but we should never forget the actual use of any given project. What I was hinting at was we should design with the core case in mind, how will this convey information at the size it's eventually going to be presented at on the desktop. It doesn't mean you can't start with 128x128 for all I care if that works for you but to spend hours fiddling with that only to scale it down and go.. wow this looks like shit let's start over, that seems wasteful to me. Then again I could be wrong, I was after all brain damaged with UML and iterative development in college. Ever since I've been paranoid about the whole time and focus aspect of development, often wasting time now means getting eaten by angry clients later.. Core cases first. Also jimmac provided some excellent scripts to blur out icons to simulate poor eyesight, please feel free to apply to excess on your work. The rest of humanity will thank you and it will give you a good idea of how your art looks to people who don't have the fortune of good health. I remember the first time I got a change to simulate what an interface looks like to people with red/green color blindness, it's just a great experience and an invaluable resource in terms of learning - for visual design, an hour with your eyes beats a mile in your shoes. - David From mola at c100c.com Mon Aug 7 13:30:45 2006 From: mola at c100c.com (Mola pahnadayan) Date: Mon, 07 Aug 2006 17:00:45 +0330 Subject: Icon , Folder-Remote Message-ID: <1154957445.2423.5.camel@localhost.localdomain> Hi , I add folder-remote SVG to wiki , Is it good ? -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: folder-remote.png Type: image/png Size: 3692 bytes Desc: not available URL: From david at lovesunix.net Mon Aug 7 14:07:48 2006 From: david at lovesunix.net (David Nielsen) Date: Mon, 07 Aug 2006 16:07:48 +0200 Subject: Icon , Folder-Remote In-Reply-To: <1154957445.2423.5.camel@localhost.localdomain> References: <1154957445.2423.5.camel@localhost.localdomain> Message-ID: <1154959668.4084.11.camel@price> man, 07 08 2006 kl. 17:00 +0330, skrev Mola pahnadayan: > Hi , I add folder-remote SVG to wiki , > Is it good ? I'm honestly not a big fan but to your credit that is a hard bit of information to have to convey. To me it looks like a monitor with a doodle (it's very small to me looking at the png file) and something blue behind it which could be another monitor. I see you also added what appears to be the fedora logo on the monitor - that's just a bit to detailed and it ends up being confusing paint blobs. Simplicity is key, besides don't we have a standard monitor template you could steal for consistency? I wouldn't think this is a remote folder by looking at it. Then again it is a hard one to do. How about a folder icon with a bit of wire with a RJ45 connector on it or some kind of wifi signal tower. You know use the visual data we already have to build upon. Your brain will go, oh that symbol meant network in the other context so here it must be networked folder and vice virsa (I know that folder is remotely connected and since it has that symbol on it that must mean that network is behind the symbol universially.) Always build upon the same visuals to convey the same context, it leverages pattern reconition to make the interface easy to understand. - David From duffy at redhat.com Mon Aug 7 15:51:39 2006 From: duffy at redhat.com (=?ISO-8859-1?Q?M=E1ir=EDn_Duffy?=) Date: Mon, 07 Aug 2006 11:51:39 -0400 Subject: Fyre, a really cool graphic-creating application Message-ID: <44D7618B.2090207@redhat.com> Hi everybody, So I met David Trowbridge at SIGGRAPH last week and he showed me this cool application he wrote called Fyre. You have to see the gallery of images it's produced: http://zero.navi.cx/gallery/v/software/fyre/ The program as described on the site: "Fyre is a tool for producing computational artwork based on histograms of iterated chaotic functions. At the moment, it implements the Peter de Jong map in a fixed-function pipeline with an interactive GTK+ frontend and a command line interface for easy and efficient rendering of high-resolution, high quality images." An RPM is available for Fedora: http://flapjack.navi.cx/releases/fyre/fyre-1.0.0-2.i686.rpm Anyway it seems like it would be a great tool for creating hawt-looking abstract backgrounds. The only issue is that it produces bitmaps, not vectors. However, you could probably get some neat results from bitmap tracing the output in Inkscape. :) ~m From stevelist at silverorange.com Mon Aug 7 16:00:15 2006 From: stevelist at silverorange.com (Steven Garrity) Date: Mon, 07 Aug 2006 13:00:15 -0300 Subject: Fyre, a really cool graphic-creating application In-Reply-To: <44D7618B.2090207@redhat.com> References: <44D7618B.2090207@redhat.com> Message-ID: <44D7638F.5040708@silverorange.com> M?ir?n Duffy wrote: > An RPM is available for Fedora: > http://flapjack.navi.cx/releases/fyre/fyre-1.0.0-2.i686.rpm Fyre is in Fedora Extras: yum install fyre Cheers, Steven Garrity From duffy at redhat.com Mon Aug 7 16:04:25 2006 From: duffy at redhat.com (=?ISO-8859-1?Q?M=E1ir=EDn_Duffy?=) Date: Mon, 07 Aug 2006 12:04:25 -0400 Subject: Fyre, a really cool graphic-creating application In-Reply-To: <44D7638F.5040708@silverorange.com> References: <44D7618B.2090207@redhat.com> <44D7638F.5040708@silverorange.com> Message-ID: <44D76489.4090609@redhat.com> Steven Garrity wrote: > Fyre is in Fedora Extras: yum install fyre Sweet!! Man, I can't believe I just found out about it. :) ~m From dfong at redhat.com Mon Aug 7 18:09:07 2006 From: dfong at redhat.com (Diana Fong) Date: Mon, 07 Aug 2006 14:09:07 -0400 Subject: New Icon Set...[echo]... In-Reply-To: <1154890530.2801.97.camel@price> References: <1154890530.2801.97.camel@price> Message-ID: <44D781C3.2010103@redhat.com> I believe there might be a few things confusing the matter...hopefully this will help to clear it up a bit. [Bluecurve, Tango, Echo...etc] For those that like Bluecurve, don't fear it will still be included in our next releases. However, this should not stop us from trying to creating a new icon set. Perhaps Echo might not be THE icon set ... but maybe by exploring this together we can come up with something better than it's starting point. By opening its development early on, it is hoped that through the input of various people, the new set could somehow be better. By saying that you just don't like it...is valid but perhaps by creating a few examples with modifications, the rest of us can follow your example to creating something better. If you say further that it's just not an improvement over the others and efforts should not be spent on this...perhaps you could suggest better alternatives...even if you've got a great idea in a completely different look, it would also be great...and this start would have been all worth it...for echo to serve as a starting point to something more usable. At this point no icon set is without faults, echo is an icon project intended at creating, what I had hoped to be a better style, but more importantly to really develop an icon theme that is from the collaboration of the community. If small sized icons are what's dear to you, please do help with the creation of them. By getting involved, you can influence the direction of things rather than ...perhaps feeling a bit antagonized by what other people create and throw at you. If you believe it is beyond help then...well...there are other icon sets, not everyone has to use the same one. However, I have seen some useful suggestions even in the many emails this weekend and ask that perhaps you can think of it as it's own project. Bluecurve, Tango and others aside, how can we improve echo. [smaller icons] Some people's overall dislike of the set was a bit confused with the issue of it looking bad in smaller sizes. My question is, therefore, at it's current size...do you like it? At this point...I'm looking for feedback on the look and feel of the icons. The angle, the colors, the shadow. Previous messages of the shadow being a bit too dark was useful as well as someone's current mention of the "grave cross" "add" icon. With the shadow, this icon set is no longer a simple copy and paste of icons into a square, accommodations have to be made for the shadow, and therefore, with different shapes, icons such as the "pause" might seem larger than the "skip forward" and whatnot it's placed next to. But these are exactly the kinds of consideration that are useful when brought up. Each smaller sizes will have to be either cleaned up at the .png or the vector stage to make it more readable. Currently, smaller sizes have not been created. Help is greatly appreciated in this area. The package created by Leon was a quick test of the icons and should not be criticized. Even with this package, we learn that the icons cannot simply be scaled down, work has to be put in to clean up the smaller versions...but maybe we can see which icons did work by simply shrinking and thus lessen the amount of work. At the smaller size I do realize that the current perspective will cause trouble and thus the suggestion for them to be head on and definitely simplified. Something I found interesting/useful was the small icon discussion...when does the icon start to break down? I had originally thought of only the 16x16 as requiring the simplified version and was on the fence for 24x24...but from the feedback, it seems that the icons need to be simplified even before that size. So, instead of saying that it's just horrible and unusable at smaller sizes, if we can figure out at what point the icons need to be fixed, then that would be constructive. I know in the Leon's package, there included 22 and 24 in addition to 48...and the 22 was probably horrendous...but there's also 32 and 36 versions that are used as well...how do those look? I've also posted some of the early icons in the fc5 screen setting [1]...those are actually cleaned up smaller icons. Is that _still_ bad...or maybe better? A few pixels cleaned here and there can really make a difference. =) [svg file size] Yes, they are large...horribly so. Nicu's example of slimming it down is awesome and I really hope someone could perhaps run through them. I wish my original wasn't so large to begin with but at this point I am trying to create as many as possible to provide for better coverage and to also get to the smaller icons in time for release. Maybe it's wishful thinking...I dunno, but must be hopeful. Attached is an example from Andy Fitzsimon...when he first saw my svgs he laughed at the ridiculous sizes...but instead of criticizing them...he went ahead and showed what could actually able to get it down to 1.9k! If you want to check it out...fyi. it came with the warning of... "Warning: it uses an svg filter for the drop shadow ( gnome's librsvg displays this fine but Inkscape will only display it on our next release )" So while he might not be interested in populating yet another icon set, he is interested in optimizing svg files...and that's awesome. It does make me hopeful to see this and really contributes to the evolution of the icon set. But this is what I mean...with the feedback and talents of various people the set can evolve into something more. There is, of course, always personal preference so while it might be better for some, it might not be for others. We all have different needs and are entitled to our opinions...let's just try to focus and make what we write here useful to this project. Sorry about the long email, was just trying to address the many points brought up over the weekend. Thanks, Diana -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: missing.svg Type: image/svg+xml Size: 1996 bytes Desc: not available URL: From dfong at redhat.com Mon Aug 7 18:15:35 2006 From: dfong at redhat.com (Diana Fong) Date: Mon, 07 Aug 2006 14:15:35 -0400 Subject: New Icon Set...[echo]... In-Reply-To: <44D781C3.2010103@redhat.com> References: <1154890530.2801.97.camel@price> <44D781C3.2010103@redhat.com> Message-ID: <44D78347.1020108@redhat.com> Oops...forgot to add link [1] http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Artwork/BluecurveAndBeyond?action=AttachFile&do=get&target=iso01_29.png Diana Fong wrote: > I believe there might be a few things confusing the matter...hopefully > this will help to clear it up a bit. > > [Bluecurve, Tango, Echo...etc] > For those that like Bluecurve, don't fear it will still be included in > our next releases. However, this should not stop us from trying to > creating a new icon set. Perhaps Echo might not be THE icon set ... > but maybe by exploring this together we can come up with something > better than it's starting point. By opening its development early on, > it is hoped that through the input of various people, the new set > could somehow be better. > By saying that you just don't like it...is valid but perhaps by > creating a few examples with modifications, the rest of us can follow > your example to creating something better. If you say further that > it's just not an improvement over the others and efforts should not be > spent on this...perhaps you could suggest better alternatives...even > if you've got a great idea in a completely different look, it would > also be great...and this start would have been all worth it...for echo > to serve as a starting point to something more usable. At this point > no icon set is without faults, echo is an icon project intended at > creating, what I had hoped to be a better style, but more importantly > to really develop an icon theme that is from the collaboration of the > community. If small sized icons are what's dear to you, please do > help with the creation of them. By getting involved, you can > influence the direction of things rather than ...perhaps feeling a bit > antagonized by what other people create and throw at you. If you > believe it is beyond help then...well...there are other icon sets, not > everyone has to use the same one. However, I have seen some useful > suggestions even in the many emails this weekend and ask that perhaps > you can think of it as it's own project. Bluecurve, Tango and others > aside, how can we improve echo. > > [smaller icons] > Some people's overall dislike of the set was a bit confused with the > issue of it looking bad in smaller sizes. My question is, therefore, > at it's current size...do you like it? At this point...I'm looking > for feedback on the look and feel of the icons. The angle, the > colors, the shadow. Previous messages of the shadow being a bit too > dark was useful as well as someone's current mention of the "grave > cross" "add" icon. With the shadow, this icon set is no longer a > simple copy and paste of icons into a square, accommodations have to > be made for the shadow, and therefore, with different shapes, icons > such as the "pause" might seem larger than the "skip forward" and > whatnot it's placed next to. But these are exactly the kinds of > consideration that are useful when brought up. > > Each smaller sizes will have to be either cleaned up at the .png or > the vector stage to make it more readable. Currently, smaller sizes > have not been created. Help is greatly appreciated in this area. The > package created by Leon was a quick test of the icons and should not > be criticized. Even with this package, we learn that the icons cannot > simply be scaled down, work has to be put in to clean up the smaller > versions...but maybe we can see which icons did work by simply > shrinking and thus lessen the amount of work. At the smaller size I do > realize that the current perspective will cause trouble and thus the > suggestion for them to be head on and definitely simplified. > Something I found interesting/useful was the small icon > discussion...when does the icon start to break down? I had originally > thought of only the 16x16 as requiring the simplified version and was > on the fence for 24x24...but from the feedback, it seems that the > icons need to be simplified even before that size. So, instead of > saying that it's just horrible and unusable at smaller sizes, if we > can figure out at what point the icons need to be fixed, then that > would be constructive. I know in the Leon's package, there included > 22 and 24 in addition to 48...and the 22 was probably horrendous...but > there's also 32 and 36 versions that are used as well...how do those > look? > > I've also posted some of the early icons in the fc5 screen setting > [1]...those are actually cleaned up smaller icons. Is that _still_ > bad...or maybe better? A few pixels cleaned here and there can really > make a difference. =) > > [svg file size] > Yes, they are large...horribly so. Nicu's example of slimming it down > is awesome and I really hope someone could perhaps run through them. > I wish my original wasn't so large to begin with but at this point I > am trying to create as many as possible to provide for better coverage > and to also get to the smaller icons in time for release. Maybe it's > wishful thinking...I dunno, but must be hopeful. Attached is an > example from Andy Fitzsimon...when he first saw my svgs he laughed at > the ridiculous sizes...but instead of criticizing them...he went ahead > and showed what could actually able to get it down to 1.9k! If you > want to check it out...fyi. it came with the warning of... > > "Warning: it uses an svg filter for the drop shadow ( gnome's librsvg > displays this fine but Inkscape will only display it on our next > release )" > > So while he might not be interested in populating yet another icon > set, he is interested in optimizing svg files...and that's awesome. > It does make me hopeful to see this and really contributes to the > evolution of the icon set. But this is what I mean...with the > feedback and talents of various people the set can evolve into > something more. > There is, of course, always personal preference so while it might be > better for some, it might not be for others. We all have different > needs and are entitled to our opinions...let's just try to focus and > make what we write here useful to this project. > > Sorry about the long email, was just trying to address the many points > brought up over the weekend. > > Thanks, > Diana > ------------------------------------------------------------------------ > > _______________________________________________ > Fedora-art-list mailing list > Fedora-art-list at redhat.com > http://www.redhat.com/mailman/listinfo/fedora-art-list > From dfong at redhat.com Mon Aug 7 18:54:30 2006 From: dfong at redhat.com (Diana Fong) Date: Mon, 07 Aug 2006 14:54:30 -0400 Subject: In search of better visual metaphors for icons Message-ID: <44D78C66.6050404@redhat.com> Hello... Would like to start a discussion on finding better visual metaphors for icons. Icons are visual representations of tasks, items, and actions on the desktop. Within the square proportioned box of usually 16x16 to 48x48 pixels, an image resides to aide users in their interaction with the computer. Most of the time, the icons are pretty straight forward...printer, for printer/printing/to print. However, there are some that are less clear. - I'd like to start off by discussing the "system-log-out" icon. The image of an arrow pointing to an open door is visually displeasing...I believe we can do better. Visually, the current representation does not fit in...while most images are objects/symbols, the log-out icon is a doorway leading to a black space. Hope that made sense. - [folder-remote] Mola created one this weekend [1] and David Nielsen had a couple of suggestions of improvements [2]. It is a rather tough idea to visualize. I'd like to come up with an idea to universally signify remote. I'm not convinced about the "pipes" that Tango uses. - [preferences-desktop-theme] Do we like the "tie and shirt" icon? I don't feel strongly either way, but thought there might be some better representation. Bluecurve uses a block with different colors and I also see another icon with a file and a little hat overlaid on it. Feel free to add others to this list...these are just the three I have been looking at recently. Diana [1] https://www.redhat.com/archives/fedora-art-list/2006-August/msg00047.html [2] https://www.redhat.com/archives/fedora-art-list/2006-August/msg00048.html From david at lovesunix.net Tue Aug 8 00:46:52 2006 From: david at lovesunix.net (David Nielsen) Date: Tue, 08 Aug 2006 02:46:52 +0200 Subject: New Icon Set...[echo]... In-Reply-To: <44D781C3.2010103@redhat.com> References: <1154890530.2801.97.camel@price> <44D781C3.2010103@redhat.com> Message-ID: <1154998012.5057.68.camel@price> man, 07 08 2006 kl. 14:09 -0400, skrev Diana Fong: > I believe there might be a few things confusing the matter...hopefully > this will help to clear it up a bit. > > [Bluecurve, Tango, Echo...etc] > For those that like Bluecurve, don't fear it will still be included in > our next releases. However, this should not stop us from trying to > creating a new icon set. Perhaps Echo might not be THE icon set ... but > maybe by exploring this together we can come up with something better > than it's starting point. By opening its development early on, it is > hoped that through the input of various people, the new set could > somehow be better. It just feels like months ago the answer was get Tango upstream and it will be our default. Then suddenly BAM.. here's Echo with the words New and Theme used by people with @redhat.com in their emailaddies. Understand my anger with this, it does not exactly help with the feeling that Fedora is indeed a COMMUNITY project. This is exactly the kind of thing that leads to ideas like Fedora is nothing more than ungrateful betatesting for RHEL. > By saying that you just don't like it...is valid but perhaps by creating > a few examples with modifications, the rest of us can follow your > example to creating something better. If you say further that it's just > not an improvement over the others and efforts should not be spent on > this...perhaps you could suggest better alternatives...even if you've > got a great idea in a completely different look, it would also be > great...and this start would have been all worth it...for echo to serve > as a starting point to something more usable. At this point no icon set > is without faults, echo is an icon project intended at creating, what I > had hoped to be a better style, but more importantly to really develop > an icon theme that is from the collaboration of the community. If small > sized icons are what's dear to you, please do help with the creation of > them. By getting involved, you can influence the direction of things > rather than ...perhaps feeling a bit antagonized by what other people > create and throw at you. If you believe it is beyond help > then...well...there are other icon sets, not everyone has to use the > same one. However, I have seen some useful suggestions even in the many > emails this weekend and ask that perhaps you can think of it as it's own > project. Bluecurve, Tango and others aside, how can we improve echo. I opened up with the fact that I have no SVG creation skills, I also have no intention to learn Inkscape. I can make comments on what does not work and what does, that is the extend to which I can go. Don't start this put your code where your mouth it. If that was the standard for all Free Software then we would never have any users. We have to be open to comments without giving the standard reply "so where is your fix". It is a perk when users fix your issues in addition to giving you input not a requirement. > [smaller icons] > Some people's overall dislike of the set was a bit confused with the > issue of it looking bad in smaller sizes. My question is, therefore, at > it's current size...do you like it? At this point...I'm looking for > feedback on the look and feel of the icons. The angle, the colors, the > shadow. Previous messages of the shadow being a bit too dark was useful > as well as someone's current mention of the "grave cross" "add" icon. > With the shadow, this icon set is no longer a simple copy and paste of > icons into a square, accommodations have to be made for the shadow, and > therefore, with different shapes, icons such as the "pause" might seem > larger than the "skip forward" and whatnot it's placed next to. But > these are exactly the kinds of consideration that are useful when > brought up. Do I like it at it's current size, no I think the prespective is a fancy way of trying to look shiny without really adding much to my experience, it just looks wrong to me. Rather than being a sutle effect that looks nice it seems invasive and in your face, a bit like overdoing a good thing. One study you do deserve full credit for though, the facing and prespective study you did on Bluecurve, that pointed out some interesting issues. I promptly put on my whiteboard of things to remember in my review toolbox, I knew Bluecurve was kinda bad in that respect but the range of issues even on a sigle toolbar is scary. I don't like the color scheme much either, I was never a big fan of that light blue glass look, it honestly reminds me of the month I spend in the hospital: cold, clinical and industrial (and everything you hear about hospital food is absolutely true btw. it's not fit for human consumption).. it's a bit erie feeling to me. The battery icons especially just seem overdone. It's one of those things that's hard to put your finger on. Then again I am a big fan of fairly simple icons, when looking at the level of detail I tend to favor the less is more thinking. I also like repeating images to underline functionality. For additional detail read the reply I wrote for the remote folder icon. > Each smaller sizes will have to be either cleaned up at the .png or the > vector stage to make it more readable. Currently, smaller sizes have > not been created. Help is greatly appreciated in this area. The > package created by Leon was a quick test of the icons and should not be > criticized. Even with this package, we learn that the icons cannot > simply be scaled down, work has to be put in to clean up the smaller > versions...but maybe we can see which icons did work by simply shrinking > and thus lessen the amount of work. At the smaller size I do realize > that the current perspective will cause trouble and thus the suggestion > for them to be head on and definitely simplified. There is just no possible way to do prespective below at least 24x24, the ratio between right and left in terms of pixels to convey information with would be laughable. It makes something small even smaller and thus makes the job of getting information across harder. I think we might need to think of that kind of thing as a luxury reserved for very big icons to give them a swanky feel. It looks great on my desktop (if I had icons there) not so much most other places. > Something I found interesting/useful was the small icon > discussion...when does the icon start to break down? I had originally > thought of only the 16x16 as requiring the simplified version and was on > the fence for 24x24...but from the feedback, it seems that the icons > need to be simplified even before that size. So, instead of saying that > it's just horrible and unusable at smaller sizes, if we can figure out > at what point the icons need to be fixed, then that would be > constructive. I know in the Leon's package, there included 22 and 24 in > addition to 48...and the 22 was probably horrendous...but there's also > 32 and 36 versions that are used as well...how do those look? I'll have a look at it once I figure out why Evolution keeps crashing on me. be wwery quiet, I'm hunting bugs. Right now that is higher on my list of things to do because well.. without Evolution giving feedback is kinda hard. It might be helpful if we could get a few of the icons done like so: One prespective all the way (pure scaling) and one flat (also pure scaling) right under it with the same motive so we can see where the breaking point is. We don't need to consider information overload for that test, just to see where the breaking point is, I would wager it sits in at 32x32 or 36x36 depending on the complexity of the icon. > I've also posted some of the early icons in the fc5 screen setting > [1]...those are actually cleaned up smaller icons. Is that _still_ > bad...or maybe better? A few pixels cleaned here and there can really > make a difference. =) In the very small sizes you really need a defined outline to be as viewable as possible it really makes all the difference (and once you have it on smaller icons it looks silly to not have it on larger ones as they will look very different). > [svg file size] > Yes, they are large...horribly so. Nicu's example of slimming it down > is awesome and I really hope someone could perhaps run through them. I > wish my original wasn't so large to begin with but at this point I am > trying to create as many as possible to provide for better coverage and > to also get to the smaller icons in time for release. Maybe it's > wishful thinking...I dunno, but must be hopeful. Attached is an example > from Andy Fitzsimon...when he first saw my svgs he laughed at the > ridiculous sizes...but instead of criticizing them...he went ahead and > showed what could actually able to get it down to 1.9k! If you want to > check it out...fyi. it came with the warning of... Strawman... If you can't take criticism and insist on only taking feedback from people who can code you are building an elitist system. While I agree that it is a meritocracy there is something to be said for the fact that out of the many users we have only about 1% can actually do SVG design to the degree of being useful. That doesn't hopefully make us useless in your eyes, some of us have no direct skills but have intimate knowledge of what is needed to hit certain users and we can provide testing. I think of criticing artwork as filing crasher bugs, I can't code C to the degree where I could fix Evolution fast enough to keep up but I can point out when it just doesn't work. > "Warning: it uses an svg filter for the drop shadow ( gnome's librsvg > displays this fine but Inkscape will only display it on our next release )" That sounds odd, technical issues aside the ligmus test is putting a release out there for testing on the actual desktop not what it looks like in a designers tool. > So while he might not be interested in populating yet another icon set, > he is interested in optimizing svg files...and that's awesome. It does > make me hopeful to see this and really contributes to the evolution of > the icon set. But this is what I mean...with the feedback and talents > of various people the set can evolve into something more. It still seems like taking a well thought out design guideline and a very complete and well tested icon set and throwing it out. I have yet to see any argument against Tango that didn't boil down to Fong or Duffy plain not liking it. While that's fine I would like to see some justification for reinventing the wheel rather than adapting Tango to our needs. And don't say branding because that is perfectly possible within Tango, it worked for Ubuntu why not for Fedora? > There is, of course, always personal preference so while it might be > better for some, it might not be for others. > We all have different needs and are entitled to our opinions...let's > just try to focus and make what we write here useful to this project. I still think that is the wrong attitude, before discarding an idea you have debate. I don't want to wake up 3 months from now to another brilliant idea from behind the RedHat walls because when that happens we get stuff like Echo that from ground up was not designed with the idea in mind to cater to users that do not have 20/20 eyesight. You can't think of every issue on your own that's why we need the community, and we need to make an RFC on an idea because starting a ton of work and labelling it as "the new theme". It makes it seem like a decision was taken away from the community and is being stuffed down my throat. There is personal opinion and then there are areas where you really need some serious testing and design. These would be things like usability and accessability, but also things like cultural bias, the obvious one here is money not being green many places outside the US, we need to think about these things. One thing I'm very set on is testing of icons, like Jimmacs blur scripts, simulating red/green color blindness, etc, there are things that I don't think about either. No one person is perfect so it would be good to work hand in hand with the usability team and do real testing to see if we hit common pitfalls. I would love to help set up an icon test squad, I can take care of my own handicap and with a bit of wiggling I can send screenshots or my laptop around to my former collegues and get some real feedback from special needs users. But we need more, if anyone knows other special needs users we should welcome them here so that we can get the best compromise between a cool look and a usable look. > Sorry about the long email, was just trying to address the many points > brought up over the weekend. Long email.. long reply. - David From subsolar at subsolar.com Tue Aug 8 03:45:33 2006 From: subsolar at subsolar.com (Paul) Date: Mon, 07 Aug 2006 22:45:33 -0500 Subject: New Icon Set...[echo]... In-Reply-To: <1154998012.5057.68.camel@price> References: <1154890530.2801.97.camel@price> <44D781C3.2010103@redhat.com> <1154998012.5057.68.camel@price> Message-ID: <1155008733.2588.9.camel@localhost.localdomain> On Tue, 2006-08-08 at 02:46 +0200, David Nielsen wrote: > > I've also posted some of the early icons in the fc5 screen setting > > [1]...those are actually cleaned up smaller icons. Is that _still_ > > bad...or maybe better? A few pixels cleaned here and there can really > > make a difference. =) > > In the very small sizes you really need a defined outline to be as > viewable as possible it really makes all the difference (and once you > have it on smaller icons it looks silly to not have it on larger ones as > they will look very different). > I vote for an outline on the smaller icons & full size ones 100%, I'm one of the these people over 40 with less than good vision even when it is corrected. > It still seems like taking a well thought out design guideline and a > very complete and well tested icon set and throwing it out. I have yet > to see any argument against Tango that didn't boil down to Fong or Duffy > plain not liking it. While that's fine I would like to see some > justification for reinventing the wheel rather than adapting Tango to > our needs. And don't say branding because that is perfectly possible > within Tango, it worked for Ubuntu why not for Fedora? Personally I like the look of the new theme aside from the lack of an outline. I like the the idea of Fedora having a unique theme and believe that Bluecurve is getting "long in the tooth" & not consistent. Regards, Paul Berger From duffy at redhat.com Tue Aug 8 03:58:36 2006 From: duffy at redhat.com (=?ISO-8859-1?Q?M=E1ir=EDn_Duffy?=) Date: Mon, 07 Aug 2006 23:58:36 -0400 Subject: New Icon Set...[echo]... In-Reply-To: <1154998012.5057.68.camel@price> References: <1154890530.2801.97.camel@price> <44D781C3.2010103@redhat.com> <1154998012.5057.68.camel@price> Message-ID: <44D80BEC.605@redhat.com> David Nielsen wrote: > It just feels like months ago the answer was get Tango upstream and it > will be our default. Whoah whoah whoah, Nelly! That was never the case. "My thoughts are we should wait until GNOME adopts it. If upstream GNOME adopts it, it would be a lot easier choice to make." [1] Ray made it quite clear that those were his thoughts, and there were no promises/guarantees/solid answers there! I have also been saying for months now that we will not be going with Tango [2]. > Then suddenly BAM.. here's Echo with the words New > and Theme used by people with @redhat.com in their emailaddies. I'm one of two people with an @redhat.com email address who actively posts on this list, but: I do not work on the Red Hat Desktop team. I work on a systems management/provisioning platform called Red Hat Network. The work I do on this list is on a volunteer-basis in my free time (note the time stamp on this email in EST.) My 'dibs' on calling the shots here are strictly as a community member. So, you're really only talking about Diana, who is one person, who has been asking for community input and help all along. > Understand my anger with this, it does not exactly help with the feeling > that Fedora is indeed a COMMUNITY project. This is exactly the kind of > thing that leads to ideas like Fedora is nothing more than ungrateful > betatesting for RHEL. This isn't a community project? Diana hasn't made all the icon source files available, set up a wiki page for people to contribute easily, invited people to comment and help work on it, and we haven't been discussing the issue of icon artwork publicly on this list for months? Basically, it comes down to this, David: the people who are artists and who are doing the work on this list would rather not go with Tango. If you care enough to want to help steer a project, you get involved as a *DOER*. Otherwise, you can give your input (which we do care about, but if we catered to only the loudest users, we'd have a very strange product indeed) and move on. >> By getting involved, you can influence the direction of things >> rather than ...perhaps feeling a bit antagonized by what other people >> create and throw at you. If you believe it is beyond help >> then...well...there are other icon sets, not everyone has to use the >> same one. However, I have seen some useful suggestions even in the many >> emails this weekend and ask that perhaps you can think of it as it's own >> project. Bluecurve, Tango and others aside, how can we improve echo. > > I opened up with the fact that I have no SVG creation skills, I also > have no intention to learn Inkscape. Does the fact that you admitted you don't have SVG creation skills nor are you willing to learn any make your comments any more useful? > I can make comments on what does > not work and what does, that is the extend to which I can go. Don't > start this put your code where your mouth it. If that was the standard > for all Free Software then we would never have any users. How is trolling the list and making fun of my artwork contributions, for example (remember, you made some sweeping generalizations about graffiti art and related my wallpaper to Alice Cooper biting the head off of a kitten [3]) helpful? Putting your 'code' (or hard work and time, which doesn't necessarily require code) where your mouth is is how free software has gotten here today. David, do you really think Linux would be where it was today if all the developers sat on mailing lists instead of contributing? > We have to be > open to comments without giving the standard reply "so where is your > fix". It is a perk when users fix your issues in addition to giving you > input not a requirement. Wait a minute, isn't this *your* issue, not *ours*? >> [smaller icons] >> Some people's overall dislike of the set was a bit confused with the >> issue of it looking bad in smaller sizes. My question is, therefore, at >> it's current size...do you like it? At this point...I'm looking for >> feedback on the look and feel of the icons. The angle, the colors, the >> shadow. Previous messages of the shadow being a bit too dark was useful >> as well as someone's current mention of the "grave cross" "add" icon. >> With the shadow, this icon set is no longer a simple copy and paste of >> icons into a square, accommodations have to be made for the shadow, and >> therefore, with different shapes, icons such as the "pause" might seem >> larger than the "skip forward" and whatnot it's placed next to. But >> these are exactly the kinds of consideration that are useful when >> brought up. > > Do I like it at it's current size, no I think the prespective is a fancy > way of trying to look shiny without really adding much to my experience, > it just looks wrong to me. Rather than being a sutle effect that looks > nice it seems invasive and in your face, a bit like overdoing a good > thing. As Diana has said before [4] (almost a month ago), the 16x16 and 24x24 Echo icons are planned to be at a 'head on' perspective. Not that 16x16 or 24x24 isometric perspective icons can't be used either (as in Bluecurve.) But 'head on' would be better because of the sharper angles Echo has. > One study you do deserve full credit for though, the facing and > prespective study you did on Bluecurve, that pointed out some > interesting issues. I promptly put on my whiteboard of things to > remember in my review toolbox, I knew Bluecurve was kinda bad in that > respect but the range of issues even on a sigle toolbar is scary. Nicu put that together. You can see who did what in the wiki history. But those are more packaging errors than actual holes in the Bluecurve icon set, so let's keep the issues we're pointing out straight. > I don't like the color scheme much either, I was never a big fan of that > light blue glass look, it honestly reminds me of the month I spend in > the hospital: cold, clinical and industrial (and everything you hear > about hospital food is absolutely true btw. it's not fit for human > consumption).. it's a bit erie feeling to me. Well, at least it's not graffiti style, right? ;) Cold and clinical is at least 'professional'? > The battery icons especially just seem overdone. It's one of those > things that's hard to put your finger on. Then again I am a big fan of > fairly simple icons, when looking at the level of detail I tend to favor > the less is more thinking. I also like repeating images to underline > functionality. For additional detail read the reply I wrote for the > remote folder icon. That's nice. > There is just no possible way to do prespective below at least 24x24, > the ratio between right and left in terms of pixels to convey > information with would be laughable. It makes something small even > smaller and thus makes the job of getting information across harder. I > think we might need to think of that kind of thing as a luxury reserved > for very big icons to give them a swanky feel. It looks great on my > desktop (if I had icons there) not so much most other places. Perspective at 24x24 and below worked fine in the Bluecurve icon set. I work with 16x16 Bluecurve icons all the time in RHN's UI. It is possible, just more or less difficult based on how sharp the angles of your grid or perspective are. > It might be helpful if we could > get a few of the icons done like so: > > One prespective all the way (pure scaling) and one flat (also pure > scaling) right under it with the same motive so we can see where the > breaking point is. We don't need to consider information overload for > that test, just to see where the breaking point is, I would wager it > sits in at 32x32 or 36x36 depending on the complexity of the icon. The reason you can't just 'pure scale' an icon and expect it to look good (perspective OR flat) is because the computer is stupid and doesn't know where the strong lines are supposed to be and where they are not, so some important lines can fall inbetween the pixels of the small pixel grid and get blurred. It takes careful editing to get a larger icon to come out clear within a 16x16 or even 24x24 pixel grid. So your proposed experiment would not be as productive as it may seem on the surface. If some icons came out clear it'd be due to sheer luck, and/or just because their shapes were simple enough. >> I've also posted some of the early icons in the fc5 screen setting >> [1]...those are actually cleaned up smaller icons. Is that _still_ >> bad...or maybe better? A few pixels cleaned here and there can really >> make a difference. =) > > In the very small sizes you really need a defined outline to be as > viewable as possible it really makes all the difference (and once you > have it on smaller icons it looks silly to not have it on larger ones as > they will look very different). The defined outline doesn't need to be black as in Bluecurve and other icon sets. Using darker shades of colors in the fills of the icons would provide the desired effect on the smaller icons that'd be complementary to the larger ones. >> [svg file size] >> Yes, they are large...horribly so. Nicu's example of slimming it down >> is awesome and I really hope someone could perhaps run through them. I >> wish my original wasn't so large to begin with but at this point I am >> trying to create as many as possible to provide for better coverage and >> to also get to the smaller icons in time for release. Maybe it's >> wishful thinking...I dunno, but must be hopeful. Attached is an example >> from Andy Fitzsimon...when he first saw my svgs he laughed at the >> ridiculous sizes...but instead of criticizing them...he went ahead and >> showed what could actually able to get it down to 1.9k! If you want to >> check it out...fyi. it came with the warning of... > > Strawman... If you can't take criticism and insist on only taking > feedback from people who can code you are building an elitist system. > While I agree that it is a meritocracy Whoah, I thought you were arguing for paragraphs way above that Linux wouldn't be where it was today if it wasn't a meritocracy...? btw where is anybody insisting on taking feedback only from people who can code? And how is 'not taking criticism' exemplified anywhere on this list wrt Echo? > there is something to be said for > the fact that out of the many users we have only about 1% can actually > do SVG design to the degree of being useful. That doesn't hopefully make > us useless in your eyes, some of us have no direct skills but have > intimate knowledge of what is needed to hit certain users and we can > provide testing. I think of criticing artwork as filing crasher bugs, I > can't code C to the degree where I could fix Evolution fast enough to > keep up but I can point out when it just doesn't work. But if you are of the opinion that "Artwork should be culturally neutral" [4] I'm not sure how qualified you are to be giving critiques on artistic style or anything having to do with art at all really? >> So while he might not be interested in populating yet another icon set, >> he is interested in optimizing svg files...and that's awesome. It does >> make me hopeful to see this and really contributes to the evolution of >> the icon set. But this is what I mean...with the feedback and talents >> of various people the set can evolve into something more. > > It still seems like taking a well thought out design guideline and a > very complete and well tested icon set and throwing it out. I have yet > to see any argument against Tango that didn't boil down to Fong or Duffy > plain not liking it. While that's fine I would like to see some > justification for reinventing the wheel rather than adapting Tango to > our needs. And don't say branding because that is perfectly possible > within Tango, it worked for Ubuntu why not for Fedora? It's not just 'Fong or Duffy plain not liking it.' The issue is a bit more complicated than that. Go back through the list archives if you care. If not, let's let the bloodied and dying horse lay in peace because quite frankly I am sick of repeating myself on this topic. >> There is, of course, always personal preference so while it might be >> better for some, it might not be for others. >> We all have different needs and are entitled to our opinions...let's >> just try to focus and make what we write here useful to this project. > > I still think that is the wrong attitude, before discarding an idea you > have debate. I don't want to wake up 3 months from now to another > brilliant idea from behind the RedHat walls Please note that Diana posted bitmap screenshots of her preliminary work for Echo months ago, and it wasn't just 'flung' over the 'Red Hat walls' but openly discussed. > because when that happens we > get stuff like Echo that from ground up was not designed with the idea > in mind to cater to users that do not have 20/20 eyesight. We have an icon theme specifically to address those with visual impairments if you are that concerned. As has been pointed out to you a couple of times now, work on the smaller versions of these icons has barely been started yet. We will change the perspective to a flat rather than isometric one for icons 24x24 and 16x16. Trust me. > You can't > think of every issue on your own that's why we need the community, and > we need to make an RFC on an idea because starting a ton of work and > labelling it as "the new theme". It makes it seem like a decision was > taken away from the community and is being stuffed down my throat. Wait a minute now. If Diana wants to start working on a new icon theme, and is asking for people to comment and help - how is that stuffing something down your throat? Has anybody talked about this being *THE* default for FC6? No! As has been mentioned several times, the set is not mature enough and the deadline for FC6 is such that it very well may not make it. If it's not ready, it's not going to be shipped as the default, end of story. And as you've made a bit more clear than you needed to, no, it is not ready to ship now. So what? It's under open, community development. You complain about things not being out in the community, but then you complain that they're out there and not 100% finished. You can't have it both ways. Is there anything wrong with trying to create a new icon theme? Is it just because Diana has a redhat.com email address that you're upset? > There is personal opinion and then there are areas where you really need > some serious testing and design. These would be things like usability > and accessability, but also things like cultural bias, the obvious one > here is money not being green many places outside the US, we need to > think about these things. Right, we know that. Again, the theme is not finished. There is a tension between following Tango's metaphors so having a better cross-Linux distro standard of icons and the potential usability issues with some of the metaphors the Tango icons use. > One thing I'm very set on is testing of icons, > like Jimmacs blur scripts, simulating red/green color blindness, etc, > there are things that I don't think about either. No one person is > perfect so it would be good to work hand in hand with the usability team > and do real testing to see if we hit common pitfalls. > I would love to help set up an icon test squad, I can take care of my > own handicap and with a bit of wiggling I can send screenshots or my > laptop around to my former collegues and get some real feedback from > special needs users. But we need more, if anyone knows other special > needs users we should welcome them here so that we can get the best > compromise between a cool look and a usable look. This sounds exceptionally helpful and I sincerely hope you do start this endeavor. I would be willing to help out. ~m [1] http://article.gmane.org/gmane.linux.redhat.fedora.desktop/1782 [2] https://www.redhat.com/archives/fedora-art-list/2006-May/msg00045.html [3] https://www.redhat.com/archives/fedora-art-list/2006-July/msg00110.html [4] https://www.redhat.com/archives/fedora-art-list/2006-July/msg00025.html From nicu_fedora at nicubunu.ro Tue Aug 8 06:11:29 2006 From: nicu_fedora at nicubunu.ro (Nicu Buculei) Date: Tue, 08 Aug 2006 09:11:29 +0300 Subject: New Icon Set...[echo]... In-Reply-To: <1154998012.5057.68.camel@price> References: <1154890530.2801.97.camel@price> <44D781C3.2010103@redhat.com> <1154998012.5057.68.camel@price> Message-ID: <44D82B11.7060105@nicubunu.ro> David Nielsen wrote: > > It just feels like months ago the answer was get Tango upstream and it > will be our default. Then suddenly BAM.. here's Echo with the words New > and Theme used by people with @redhat.com in their emailaddies. > Understand my anger with this, it does not exactly help with the feeling > that Fedora is indeed a COMMUNITY project. This is exactly the kind of > thing that leads to ideas like Fedora is nothing more than ungrateful > betatesting for RHEL. Please, do not be so arrogant to consider your own opinion as the only opinion of the community. I am NOT an @redhat.com but used every opportunity to argue against Tango and for a new theme. -- nicu Cool Fedora wallpapers: http://fedora.nicubunu.ro/wallpapers/ Open Clip Art Library: http://www.openclipart.org my Fedora stuff: http://fedora.nicubunu.ro From nicu_fedora at nicubunu.ro Tue Aug 8 06:17:44 2006 From: nicu_fedora at nicubunu.ro (Nicu Buculei) Date: Tue, 08 Aug 2006 09:17:44 +0300 Subject: New Icon Set...[echo]... In-Reply-To: <44D781C3.2010103@redhat.com> References: <1154890530.2801.97.camel@price> <44D781C3.2010103@redhat.com> Message-ID: <44D82C88.5050505@nicubunu.ro> Diana Fong wrote: > > Something I found interesting/useful was the small icon > discussion...when does the icon start to break down? I had originally > thought of only the 16x16 as requiring the simplified version and was on > the fence for 24x24...but from the feedback, it seems that the icons > need to be simplified even before that size. So, instead of saying that > it's just horrible and unusable at smaller sizes, if we can figure out > at what point the icons need to be fixed, then that would be > constructive. I know in the Leon's package, there included 22 and 24 in > addition to 48...and the 22 was probably horrendous...but there's also > 32 and 36 versions that are used as well...how do those look? I feel the need for a very punctual question: what is the size for our small icons, 24x24 as in GNOME HIG (http://developer.gnome.org/projects/gup/hig/2.0/icons-types.html) or 22x22 as in Tango (http://tango.freedesktop.org/Tango_Icon_Theme_Guidelines#Small) ? -- nicu Cool Fedora wallpapers: http://fedora.nicubunu.ro/wallpapers/ Open Clip Art Library: http://www.openclipart.org my Fedora stuff: http://fedora.nicubunu.ro From david at lovesunix.net Tue Aug 8 06:35:21 2006 From: david at lovesunix.net (David Nielsen) Date: Tue, 08 Aug 2006 08:35:21 +0200 Subject: New Icon Set...[echo]... In-Reply-To: <44D80BEC.605@redhat.com> References: <1154890530.2801.97.camel@price> <44D781C3.2010103@redhat.com> <1154998012.5057.68.camel@price> <44D80BEC.605@redhat.com> Message-ID: <1155018921.5057.245.camel@price> man, 07 08 2006 kl. 23:58 -0400, skrev M?ir?n Duffy: > "My thoughts are we should wait until GNOME adopts it. If upstream > GNOME adopts it, it would be a lot easier choice to make." [1] Admittedly a simplified view, if it got upstream acceptance just like anything else in Fedora carrying a delta isn't desirable and there would be a chance it could be used. But please understand that I direct my efforts where it seems to be best applied and in this case since the thought was if upstream likes it, we might also like it. I didn't give lobbying within Fedora much thought afterwards.. that is till I discovered the new art list by chance (I haven't made much of a habit out of seeing if we got new lists and I was already on the desktop one so my thinking was.. fedora-desktop well that would be things like artwork and usability.. strangely quiet though.) > I'm one of two people with an @redhat.com email address who actively > posts on this list, but: I do not work on the Red Hat Desktop team. I > work on a systems management/provisioning platform called Red Hat > Network. The work I do on this list is on a volunteer-basis in my free > time (note the time stamp on this email in EST.) My 'dibs' on calling > the shots here are strictly as a community member. My apologies, when I see redhat.com in 9 out of 10 cases this means employee at least that is the historical outlook on things like this. Just a side question since you aren't a Red Hat employee, why weren't you given a fedoraproject.org account - not that it's any of my business but that would make more sense.. I guess IT works in mysterious ways sometimes. > This isn't a community project? Diana hasn't made all the icon source > files available, set up a wiki page for people to contribute easily, > invited people to comment and help work on it, and we haven't been > discussing the issue of icon artwork publicly on this list for months? And I gave comments, specific feedback.. show me one mail that did not contain valid concerns. > Basically, it comes down to this, David: the people who are artists and > who are doing the work on this list would rather not go with Tango. If > you care enough to want to help steer a project, you get involved as a > *DOER*. Otherwise, you can give your input (which we do care about, but > if we catered to only the loudest users, we'd have a very strange > product indeed) and move on. Doer, yes please any opinion I hold does not matter because I have yet to learn Inkscape. It's not about being loud, it's about the treatment of special use cases. I still believe that disregarding vision defects and general poor eyesight will be a problem for Echo and I don't believe the solution is assigning blame but listening to peoples concerns just might. > >> By getting involved, you can influence the direction of things > >> rather than ...perhaps feeling a bit antagonized by what other people > >> create and throw at you. If you believe it is beyond help > >> then...well...there are other icon sets, not everyone has to use the > >> same one. However, I have seen some useful suggestions even in the many > >> emails this weekend and ask that perhaps you can think of it as it's own > >> project. Bluecurve, Tango and others aside, how can we improve echo. I made general comments on the merits of the icons, I did not turn this into a personal thing. If I had opened with Diana has about the same skill as a puddle of mud then sure I would be a bad person and not listening would be an option. > > I opened up with the fact that I have no SVG creation skills, I also > > have no intention to learn Inkscape. > > Does the fact that you admitted you don't have SVG creation skills nor > are you willing to learn any make your comments any more useful? Why would I need specific SVG knowledge to be useful, I have experience dealing with handicapped people and it seems that any such input or concern is not welcomed without SVG skills.. if that is what it takes then by all means I'll install Inkspace and come back in 2 years when I figure out how to use it. Will you listen to concerns about general design concepts then? > > I can make comments on what does > > not work and what does, that is the extend to which I can go. Don't > > start this put your code where your mouth it. If that was the standard > > for all Free Software then we would never have any users. > > How is trolling the list and making fun of my artwork contributions, for > example (remember, you made some sweeping generalizations about graffiti > art and related my wallpaper to Alice Cooper biting the head off of a > kitten [3]) helpful? You, yourself used the term "Satanist graffiti" in the reply to my original mail - building on your statement is hardly sweeping generalisation, besides I kinda like Alice Cooper but that's just my taste in music, subjective as that kind of thing is. When you as part of the team present artwork and I feel it might not be suitable for Fedora, do you expect me to sit quietly in the corner. I opened up with a question if this was really the overall visual style we wanted for Fedora. If you were offended then I am sorry it was not the point but I still don't think graffeti is the way to go. You also didn't mention the fact that you were not proposing this for the default look. However when it comes from a "Fedora approved artist" one has to assume that everything is basically on the eternal quest for a new visual style. I would personally run screaming from that specific style as it is filled with stigma as I pointed out in my earlier mail but hey it's art dabbling is encouraged. You don't seem to take criticism very well, if you want only compliments, create only good art - yes that is impossible and when you venture into distinctive styles you are bound to collide with someone, that means you'll see many more comments from not only me but everyone who doesn't feel comfortable with the experiment you perform. > Putting your 'code' (or hard work and time, which doesn't necessarily > require code) where your mouth is is how free software has gotten here > today. David, do you really think Linux would be where it was today if > all the developers sat on mailing lists instead of contributing? And do you think we would have the framework and understanding of the needs of users we do today if all we did was code? Usability studies and all that hard work that gave us GNOME2 was a lot of talk, research and understanding of human beings - that was mostly talking and experimenting. > > We have to be > > open to comments without giving the standard reply "so where is your > > fix". It is a perk when users fix your issues in addition to giving you > > input not a requirement. > > Wait a minute, isn't this *your* issue, not *ours*? You clearly are not interesting in listening unless I present some work, I offered to do what testing I could given my contacts with special needs groups. That counts as work in my book - I also gave plenty of feedback on specific problematic icons and designs. Where exactly did I just as you put it "troll"? I think I mentioned the words vision impairment or similiar concerns amply to make my point, also implied but maybe not so clear on second though was that we ship Bluecurve which does take this in consideration and stopping that year long tradition might be considered an important feature regression. > As Diana has said before [4] (almost a month ago), the 16x16 and 24x24 > Echo icons are planned to be at a 'head on' perspective. Not that 16x16 > or 24x24 isometric perspective icons can't be used either (as in > Bluecurve.) But 'head on' would be better because of the sharper angles > Echo has. Head-on is almost always best for small sizes just given simple trig. calculation, while it has merit and cool factor when we have ample space to play with we end up losing a lot to such tricks in lower sized images. > > One study you do deserve full credit for though, the facing and > > prespective study you did on Bluecurve, that pointed out some > > interesting issues. I promptly put on my whiteboard of things to > > remember in my review toolbox, I knew Bluecurve was kinda bad in that > > respect but the range of issues even on a sigle toolbar is scary. > > Nicu put that together. You can see who did what in the wiki history. > But those are more packaging errors than actual holes in the Bluecurve > icon set, so let's keep the issues we're pointing out straight. Thank you for the correction, I will remember to check the wiki revisions next time before attributing Diana wrongly with such brilliant work. I hope Nicu can forgive me. > > I don't like the color scheme much either, I was never a big fan of that > > light blue glass look, it honestly reminds me of the month I spend in > > the hospital: cold, clinical and industrial (and everything you hear > > about hospital food is absolutely true btw. it's not fit for human > > consumption).. it's a bit erie feeling to me. > > Well, at least it's not graffiti style, right? ;) Cold and clinical is > at least 'professional'? I would probably take graffiti over hospital, but that's just me personally, that experience was rather traumatising and I would rather not have something love namely computers remind me of places I really don't like namely hospitals - it's enough I have to go every 6 months and pop pills like a madman. Cold and clinical is definitely not a requiremnent for a professional look though. Take the SLED10 theme, that has a very nice look to it while remaining neutral enough to be used in many settings. we must have vastely different ideas of what makes a good design, I nowhere said I wanted a cold erie feel on Fedora.. in fact I do recall specifically praising you and the rest of the art team for the wonderfully vibrant wallpaper that shipped with FC5. > > The battery icons especially just seem overdone. It's one of those > > things that's hard to put your finger on. Then again I am a big fan of > > fairly simple icons, when looking at the level of detail I tend to favor > > the less is more thinking. I also like repeating images to underline > > functionality. For additional detail read the reply I wrote for the > > remote folder icon. > > That's nice. Thank you > Perspective at 24x24 and below worked fine in the Bluecurve icon set. I > work with 16x16 Bluecurve icons all the time in RHN's UI. It is > possible, just more or less difficult based on how sharp the angles of > your grid or perspective are. You are right, it's all in the math, I remember the Tango guidelines had a nice helpful grid view showing the prespective they use in relation to your icon size. A very helpful indicator and much easier to understand instantly than dry math (which admittedly would be my approach since that it what I was trained in - and honestly I find it kind of fun to see the math behind art). > The reason you can't just 'pure scale' an icon and expect it to look > good (perspective OR flat) is because the computer is stupid and doesn't > know where the strong lines are supposed to be and where they are not, > so some important lines can fall inbetween the pixels of the small pixel > grid and get blurred. It takes careful editing to get a larger icon to > come out clear within a 16x16 or even 24x24 pixel grid. So your proposed > experiment would not be as productive as it may seem on the surface. If > some icons came out clear it'd be due to sheer luck, and/or just because > their shapes were simple enough. I think the intent was clear, scaling does suck for the cases we are dealing with, but to get an idea of where the loss of usable icon space in prespective is acceptable. It was not meant to be conclusive but a rough draft, a hack if you will. My apologies if that wasn't clear. Seeing is sometimes believing and it did seem like to me that there was an open question as to when was the right size to start doing a fancy prespective view instead of the flat head-on look. I would think the idea was stongly simplified head-on for 16x16, more detailed head-on for 24x24 and then after that maybe go to a simple prespective view with the larger icons adding detail with each step. But it appeared to me that there was an open question as to when this would work and this was one way of getting a rough idea nothing more. > The defined outline doesn't need to be black as in Bluecurve and other > icon sets. Using darker shades of colors in the fills of the icons would > provide the desired effect on the smaller icons that'd be complementary > to the larger ones. I never said black outline, but a suitable outline never the less, the effect is quite clear on the back and forth buttons in Echo, without a defining outline they look washed out which is a pity. > Whoah, I thought you were arguing for paragraphs way above that Linux > wouldn't be where it was today if it wasn't a meritocracy...? btw where > is anybody insisting on taking feedback only from people who can code? You seem to be quite keen on me going back to learning Inkscape or gettinf some kind paperwork done before making comments. (see below) > And how is 'not taking criticism' exemplified anywhere on this list wrt > Echo? I pointed out some obvious concerns, the result has been a long rather annoying thread not a constructive debate on those issues. I have yet to see a comment from you on my concerns with regards to visual impairments and Echos general design. > But if you are of the opinion that "Artwork should be culturally > neutral" [4] I'm not sure how qualified you are to be giving critiques > on artistic style or anything having to do with art at all really? The same way everyone else gets into artwork, being an interested layman at first. I have been interested on a personal level in visual presentation (not icon design as such) for most of my life. I think it's not to far a stretch to want to avoid some cultural pitfalls when designing artwork. But if you absolutely want qualifications then I can give you nothing, I have no paper to document a passtime interest over more than a decade..I had no idea I was required to have such things to have a valid opinion. > It's not just 'Fong or Duffy plain not liking it.' The issue is a bit > more complicated than that. Go back through the list archives if you > care. If not, let's let the bloodied and dying horse lay in peace > because quite frankly I am sick of repeating myself on this topic. *sigh* > Please note that Diana posted bitmap screenshots of her preliminary work > for Echo months ago, and it wasn't just 'flung' over the 'Red Hat walls' > but openly discussed. And I produced feedback within hours of first being pointed to the work that had already been done, I believe the first time this got a lot of publicity was when Rahul posted about it either in his blog or on fedora-devel, I'm somewhat fuzzy on the details right now sadly. I did however ask the basicly same questions citing Tango and Bluecurve as things that worked well in general cases and expressed concern that those aspects of the current design did not get discarded. > We have an icon theme specifically to address those with visual > impairments if you are that concerned. As has been pointed out to you a > couple of times now, work on the smaller versions of these icons has > barely been started yet. We will change the perspective to a flat rather > than isometric one for icons 24x24 and 16x16. Trust me. It is not about the prespective you don't seem to understand that, but about the general assumption that cool comes before usable. It feels like I've been sitting here for hours saying things like color blindness, slightly less than perfect eyesight, etc. and your answer is change icon theme. But I also said that this is a bigger issue than just icons. Changing icons does not change the entire base distro look (rhgb, gdm, and so much more) to suit these people, in addition small adjustments can make a big difference to accomidate these peoples needs there should be no need for them to replace the default icon theme with another one just for e.g. a small difference in eye sight. Also we don't provide "Bluecurve High contrast" so we end up asking a user with just a small vision flaw to pick an entirely different visual design. > Wait a minute now. If Diana wants to start working on a new icon theme, > and is asking for people to comment and help - how is that stuffing > something down your throat? Has anybody talked about this being *THE* > default for FC6? No! As has been mentioned several times, the set is not > mature enough and the deadline for FC6 is such that it very well may not > make it. If it's not ready, it's not going to be shipped as the default, > end of story. And as you've made a bit more clear than you needed to, > no, it is not ready to ship now. So what? It's under open, community > development. You complain about things not being out in the community, > but then you complain that they're out there and not 100% finished. You > can't have it both ways. It was not a complaint on the completeness of the theme, but I guess I won't get far debating this any longer. I would have liked it if we sat down to debate the requirements of a replacement for Bluecurve because fundamentally Bluecurve caterred quite well to the group of people I am talking about in addition to pretty much everyone else. Infact from what I hear from users around me they really like Bluecurve, many even install Bluecurve in other distros specifically because they like it so much. Throwing that out I feel would be a shame and it quite seems that you are very ready to do so, sure there's the option of using a high constrast theme instead but how many people will want that. I know I don't even want to admit my small vision problem and as such I tend to avoid my glasses. People generally won't admit an eye sight issue unless it's so bad that they really require very special (and as such out of the scope of the default theme) designs. I could tell you a story here so for once I will. A friend of mine with very bad eyesight is so unwilling to wear his glasses when using his computer that he runs a modern machine at 800x600 resolution (I believe he has a 20 or 21" flatscreen monitor) with the biggest icon and text settings Windows XP allows. I tried getting him to use high contrast themes and otherwise improve his computing experience but he likes things like this better because it seems less like admitting a flaw. This is a person with a bad problem who won't admit to it nor take advantage of the things provided to make his experience more comfortable. We must have plenty of users out there with very small problem where a little bit of concern goes a long way towards bring them a good experience within the sanity of our defaults. > Is there anything wrong with trying to create a new icon theme? Is it > just because Diana has a redhat.com email address that you're upset? Not at all but it feels like the debate is going: I have concerns, you handwave and tell me I should go learn Inkscape or get papers to say I have the right to an opinion. I point out that we did this for years and the general concensus is that it's no big deal. If that is indeed the feeling then I will not bring it up again, ever. > Right, we know that. Again, the theme is not finished. There is a > tension between following Tango's metaphors so having a better > cross-Linux distro standard of icons and the potential usability issues > with some of the metaphors the Tango icons use. I did not say the only way to go is Tango (and any derived theme there of) but I asked several time if we really wanted to throw out the things we already do with Bluecurve in favor of Echo in which this does not seem to be a concern. Doing so seems like a feature regression to me. Moderate adaption to vision impairment shouldn't be that much of an issue, Tango just happens to do an good job at it - I guess that's because the artists who started that project thought about it a lot early on. > > I would love to help set up an icon test squad, I can take care of my > > own handicap and with a bit of wiggling I can send screenshots or my > > laptop around to my former collegues and get some real feedback from > > special needs users. But we need more, if anyone knows other special > > needs users we should welcome them here so that we can get the best > > compromise between a cool look and a usable look. > > This sounds exceptionally helpful and I sincerely hope you do start this > endeavor. I would be willing to help out. I will look forward to working with you.. That is right after I get an art degree, learn Inkscape and have the abilities to do more than casual reviews. I aim to please. - David In case you care, since I'm handicapped and do not work, I dedicate maybe 10 hours a day to testing, translation work and other assorted little things within Fedora. I happen to have an interest in artwork from the stance of usability for very practical reasons, it makes my life easier and honestly a good usable well crafted icon or interface just has a certain simple elegant beauty to it - is it wrong to love that kind of thing without a degree? I don't get how people can sit down and use GNOME without falling in love with the concept, it's just something that once you experience how much better we can make the entire experience when thinking about goals and users you wonder why we spend a lifetime mapping complex and detailed computer centric views on interfaces. From duffy at redhat.com Tue Aug 8 06:47:44 2006 From: duffy at redhat.com (=?UTF-8?B?TcOhaXLDrW4gRHVmZnk=?=) Date: Tue, 08 Aug 2006 02:47:44 -0400 Subject: New Icon Set...[echo]... In-Reply-To: <1155018921.5057.245.camel@price> References: <1154890530.2801.97.camel@price> <44D781C3.2010103@redhat.com> <1154998012.5057.68.camel@price> <44D80BEC.605@redhat.com> <1155018921.5057.245.camel@price> Message-ID: <44D83390.1060900@redhat.com> David Nielsen wrote: > man, 07 08 2006 kl. 23:58 -0400, skrev M?ir?n Duffy: > >> "My thoughts are we should wait until GNOME adopts it. If upstream >> GNOME adopts it, it would be a lot easier choice to make." [1] > > Admittedly a simplified view, if it got upstream acceptance just like > anything else in Fedora carrying a delta isn't desirable and there would > be a chance it could be used. But please understand that I direct my > efforts where it seems to be best applied and in this case since the > thought was if upstream likes it, we might also like it. I didn't give > lobbying within Fedora much thought afterwards.. that is till I > discovered the new art list by chance [snip snip snip] I think you've made your opinion exceedingly clear. I suggest closing this particular fork of the thread so others' opinions have a chance as well. Thanks, ~m From david at lovesunix.net Tue Aug 8 06:48:48 2006 From: david at lovesunix.net (David Nielsen) Date: Tue, 08 Aug 2006 08:48:48 +0200 Subject: RFC: Vision defect control suite for artwork Message-ID: <1155019728.5057.259.camel@price> During the recent debate on the new icon theme I brought the question of testing your work against known vision defects like red/green color blindness, blurry vision and such things. However it does not seem that we have an easy to use tool to simulate all these various issues, therefore I would like to propose that we work on building one. I would be willing to dust off my coding skills and give this a shot however I need some help figuring out the math behind the various defects. The rough idea would be to feed the program an image, say a screenshot of the Fedora desktop we are working on and the program would output images showing us how this would look to the affected people. Akin to what vischeck[1] does but locally and using free software. I figure starting with deuteranomaly as the proof of concept it would be good as that covers about 6% of the male population and is the single most common color vision defect according to my research. Ensuring that Fedora can be used by 6% of the male population out of the box would probably be worth a little bit of work. I have been able to dig up all kinds of genetic details as to how this works but not a single reference to an algorithm we could apply to the transform operation. So dear lazyweb, help me dig up the math and I will see what I can do about providing a tool for the real artists to play with. That is if there's an real interest of course. - David Also a fun project for someone with interest, there are means of calculating backwards[2] to make interfaces that do hit a certain vision impairments work for these people. It properly requires more math that what is feasable but never the less I could see someone having a bit of fun with realtime color transformation like that. A nice thesis subject for some starving CS student maybe, I'd be happy to help out. I'm thinking a Compiz plugin that adjusts the colors might do the trick. [1] http://www.vischeck.com/vischeck/ [2] http://www.vischeck.com/daltonize/ From dfong at redhat.com Tue Aug 8 07:04:46 2006 From: dfong at redhat.com (Diana Fong) Date: Tue, 08 Aug 2006 03:04:46 -0400 Subject: New Icon Set...[echo]... In-Reply-To: <44D82C88.5050505@nicubunu.ro> References: <1154890530.2801.97.camel@price> <44D781C3.2010103@redhat.com> <44D82C88.5050505@nicubunu.ro> Message-ID: <44D8378E.2020603@redhat.com> Nicu Buculei wrote: > Diana Fong wrote: >> >> Something I found interesting/useful was the small icon >> discussion...when does the icon start to break down? I had >> originally thought of only the 16x16 as requiring the simplified >> version and was on the fence for 24x24...but from the feedback, it >> seems that the icons need to be simplified even before that size. >> So, instead of saying that it's just horrible and unusable at smaller >> sizes, if we can figure out at what point the icons need to be fixed, >> then that would be constructive. I know in the Leon's package, there >> included 22 and 24 in addition to 48...and the 22 was probably >> horrendous...but there's also 32 and 36 versions that are used as >> well...how do those look? > > I feel the need for a very punctual question: what is the size for our > small icons, 24x24 as in GNOME HIG > (http://developer.gnome.org/projects/gup/hig/2.0/icons-types.html) or > 22x22 as in Tango > (http://tango.freedesktop.org/Tango_Icon_Theme_Guidelines#Small) ? > I looked into it...and Windows icons are 16, 32, and 48 pixels Mac icons are 16, 32, 48, and 128 pixels Tango icons are 16, 22, and 48 pixels You can see a Windows/Mac comparison at http://www.xvsxp.com/interface/icons.php Bluecurve has icon sizes of 16, 24,32,36,48, 64, and 96 pixels. Commonly used sizes being 16, 24 and 48...with applications asking for: menu icons (16x16) -- icon_sizes[GTK_ICON_SIZE_MENU].name = "gtk-menu"; button icons (20x20) -- icon_sizes[GTK_ICON_SIZE_BUTTON].name = "gtk-button"; toolbar icons (18x18) -- icon_sizes[GTK_ICON_SIZE_SMALL_TOOLBAR].name = "gtk-small-toolbar"; (24x24) -- icon_sizes[GTK_ICON_SIZE_LARGE_TOOLBAR].name = "gtk-large-toolbar"; dnd icons (32x32) -- icon_sizes[GTK_ICON_SIZE_DND].name = "gtk-dnd"; dialogue icons (48x48) -- icon_sizes[GTK_ICON_SIZE_DIALOG].name = "gtk-dialog"; So I was thinking of covering the common sizes (16, 24, 48) and if possible the ones that are being used in the list above. diana From luya_tfz at thefinalzone.com Tue Aug 8 07:34:03 2006 From: luya_tfz at thefinalzone.com (Luya Tshimbalanga) Date: Tue, 08 Aug 2006 15:34:03 +0800 Subject: FreeArt license compatible with GPL and Fedora Project? Message-ID: I stumbled on that license by playing with Inkscape. I am wondering if that license is compatible with GPL and can be used for Fedora Project. Here is the page: http://artlibre.org/licence/lal/en/ From david at lovesunix.net Tue Aug 8 07:48:25 2006 From: david at lovesunix.net (David Nielsen) Date: Tue, 08 Aug 2006 09:48:25 +0200 Subject: FreeArt license compatible with GPL and Fedora Project? In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <1155023305.12298.0.camel@price> tir, 08 08 2006 kl. 15:34 +0800, skrev Luya Tshimbalanga: > I stumbled on that license by playing with Inkscape. I am wondering if > that license is compatible with GPL and can be used for Fedora Project. > Here is the page: > > http://artlibre.org/licence/lal/en/ According to fsf.org: Free Art License This is a free and copyleft license meant for artistic works. It permits commercial distribution, but any larger work including the copylefted work must be free. Please don't use it for software or documentation, since it is incompatible with the GNU GPL and with the GNU FDL. From stevelist at silverorange.com Tue Aug 8 12:37:37 2006 From: stevelist at silverorange.com (Steven Garrity) Date: Tue, 08 Aug 2006 09:37:37 -0300 Subject: New Icon Set...[echo]... In-Reply-To: <44D8378E.2020603@redhat.com> References: <1154890530.2801.97.camel@price> <44D781C3.2010103@redhat.com> <44D82C88.5050505@nicubunu.ro> <44D8378E.2020603@redhat.com> Message-ID: <44D88591.7040307@silverorange.com> Diana Fong wrote: > I looked into it...and > Windows icons are 16, 32, and 48 pixels > Mac icons are 16, 32, 48, and 128 pixels > Tango icons are 16, 22, and 48 pixels Tango has recently added 32 px as an optionally optimized size as well. Cheers, Steven Garrity From stickster at gmail.com Tue Aug 8 13:57:14 2006 From: stickster at gmail.com (Paul W. Frields) Date: Tue, 08 Aug 2006 09:57:14 -0400 Subject: New Icon Set...[echo]... In-Reply-To: <44D80BEC.605@redhat.com> References: <1154890530.2801.97.camel@price> <44D781C3.2010103@redhat.com> <1154998012.5057.68.camel@price> <44D80BEC.605@redhat.com> Message-ID: <1155045434.6135.45.camel@localhost.localdomain> On Mon, 2006-08-07 at 23:58 -0400, M?ir?n Duffy wrote: > I'm one of two people with an @redhat.com email address who actively > posts on this list, but: I do not work on the Red Hat Desktop team. I > work on a systems management/provisioning platform called Red Hat > Network. The work I do on this list is on a volunteer-basis in my free > time (note the time stamp on this email in EST.) My 'dibs' on calling > the shots here are strictly as a community member. I for one am getting a little tired of people assuming that anyone @redhat.com is being paid to work on this stuff, and that their opinion is somehow bubbling to the top because of corporate control. AIUI, other than the hardcore development team (I think they're called Emerging Technologies inside Red Hat), almost no one in Red Hat is paid to work on Fedora. They all put in their time on the side, forsaking friends, family and fun in the sun just like the rest of us. Let's cut with the bashing and conspiracy theories already. [...snip...] > > One thing I'm very set on is testing of icons, > > like Jimmacs blur scripts, simulating red/green color blindness, etc, > > there are things that I don't think about either. No one person is > > perfect so it would be good to work hand in hand with the usability team > > and do real testing to see if we hit common pitfalls. > > > I would love to help set up an icon test squad, I can take care of my > > own handicap and with a bit of wiggling I can send screenshots or my > > laptop around to my former collegues and get some real feedback from > > special needs users. But we need more, if anyone knows other special > > needs users we should welcome them here so that we can get the best > > compromise between a cool look and a usable look. > > This sounds exceptionally helpful and I sincerely hope you do start this > endeavor. I would be willing to help out. Now *that's* how to contribute. Transparent and objective criteria are a must if you're going to start sampling users for data; see GNOME Usability or any of dozens of other well-known HIGish projects for ideas and guidelines. -- Paul W. Frields, RHCE http://paul.frields.org/ gpg fingerprint: 3DA6 A0AC 6D58 FEC4 0233 5906 ACDB C937 BD11 3717 Fedora Project Board: http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Board Fedora Docs Project: http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/DocsProject -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: signature.asc Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 189 bytes Desc: This is a digitally signed message part URL: From stickster at gmail.com Tue Aug 8 14:09:25 2006 From: stickster at gmail.com (Paul W. Frields) Date: Tue, 08 Aug 2006 10:09:25 -0400 Subject: FreeArt license compatible with GPL and Fedora Project? In-Reply-To: <1155023305.12298.0.camel@price> References: <1155023305.12298.0.camel@price> Message-ID: <1155046165.6135.48.camel@localhost.localdomain> On Tue, 2006-08-08 at 09:48 +0200, David Nielsen wrote: > tir, 08 08 2006 kl. 15:34 +0800, skrev Luya Tshimbalanga: > > I stumbled on that license by playing with Inkscape. I am wondering if > > that license is compatible with GPL and can be used for Fedora Project. > > Here is the page: > > > > http://artlibre.org/licence/lal/en/ > > According to fsf.org: > > Free Art License > > This is a free and copyleft license meant for artistic works. It > permits commercial distribution, but any larger work including > the copylefted work must be free. Please don't use it for > software or documentation, since it is incompatible with the GNU > GPL and with the GNU FDL. Just to be clear on this Luya, the operative clause is that the Free Software Foundation considers this license to be free, and therefore it may indeed be a good choice. I'll run this by the advisory board to see if it's a good choice for Fedora artwork. The cautionary statement at the end simply means that you shouldn't use this license for software or docs, but it doesn't mean that GPL-licensed software can't live happily and comfortably next to FAL-licensed artwork. David, thanks for looking this up. -- Paul W. Frields, RHCE http://paul.frields.org/ gpg fingerprint: 3DA6 A0AC 6D58 FEC4 0233 5906 ACDB C937 BD11 3717 Fedora Project Board: http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Board Fedora Docs Project: http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/DocsProject -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: signature.asc Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 189 bytes Desc: This is a digitally signed message part URL: From david at lovesunix.net Tue Aug 8 14:42:11 2006 From: david at lovesunix.net (David Nielsen) Date: Tue, 08 Aug 2006 16:42:11 +0200 Subject: FreeArt license compatible with GPL and Fedora Project? In-Reply-To: <1155046165.6135.48.camel@localhost.localdomain> References: <1155023305.12298.0.camel@price> <1155046165.6135.48.camel@localhost.localdomain> Message-ID: <1155048131.20424.17.camel@price> tir, 08 08 2006 kl. 10:09 -0400, skrev Paul W. Frields: > On Tue, 2006-08-08 at 09:48 +0200, David Nielsen wrote: > > tir, 08 08 2006 kl. 15:34 +0800, skrev Luya Tshimbalanga: > > > I stumbled on that license by playing with Inkscape. I am wondering if > > > that license is compatible with GPL and can be used for Fedora Project. > > > Here is the page: > > > > > > http://artlibre.org/licence/lal/en/ > > > > According to fsf.org: > > > > Free Art License > > > > This is a free and copyleft license meant for artistic works. It > > permits commercial distribution, but any larger work including > > the copylefted work must be free. Please don't use it for > > software or documentation, since it is incompatible with the GNU > > GPL and with the GNU FDL. > > Just to be clear on this Luya, the operative clause is that the Free > Software Foundation considers this license to be free, and therefore it > may indeed be a good choice. I'll run this by the advisory board to see > if it's a good choice for Fedora artwork. The cautionary statement at > the end simply means that you shouldn't use this license for software or > docs, but it doesn't mean that GPL-licensed software can't live happily > and comfortably next to FAL-licensed artwork. David, thanks for looking > this up. See this is why we all love Red Hat, they provide us with a legal team to give an informed answer rather than these I'm not a lawyer type answers. This is really a great service. Good luck with you endevours Luya. - David From david at lovesunix.net Tue Aug 8 15:56:57 2006 From: david at lovesunix.net (David Nielsen) Date: Tue, 08 Aug 2006 17:56:57 +0200 Subject: New Icon Set...[echo]... In-Reply-To: <1155045434.6135.45.camel@localhost.localdomain> References: <1154890530.2801.97.camel@price> <44D781C3.2010103@redhat.com> <1154998012.5057.68.camel@price> <44D80BEC.605@redhat.com> <1155045434.6135.45.camel@localhost.localdomain> Message-ID: <1155052617.20527.38.camel@price> tir, 08 08 2006 kl. 09:57 -0400, skrev Paul W. Frields: > On Mon, 2006-08-07 at 23:58 -0400, M?ir?n Duffy wrote: > > I'm one of two people with an @redhat.com email address who actively > > posts on this list, but: I do not work on the Red Hat Desktop team. I > > work on a systems management/provisioning platform called Red Hat > > Network. The work I do on this list is on a volunteer-basis in my free > > time (note the time stamp on this email in EST.) My 'dibs' on calling > > the shots here are strictly as a community member. > > I for one am getting a little tired of people assuming that anyone > @redhat.com is being paid to work on this stuff, and that their opinion > is somehow bubbling to the top because of corporate control. AIUI, > other than the hardcore development team (I think they're called > Emerging Technologies inside Red Hat), almost no one in Red Hat is paid > to work on Fedora. They all put in their time on the side, forsaking > friends, family and fun in the sun just like the rest of us. Let's cut > with the bashing and conspiracy theories already. What bashing? I was not the one using the term troll to describe a contributor. One who quite literally hasn't seen family or friends in weeks either thank you very much. I'm getting quite sick of this, I voice a well reasoned opinion and then I spend hours defending not the merit of the opinion but rather defending myself from attacks on my person and my qualifications. I don't quite get why I'm suddenly a vile conspiracy nut. > [...snip...] > > > One thing I'm very set on is testing of icons, > > > like Jimmacs blur scripts, simulating red/green color blindness, etc, > > > there are things that I don't think about either. No one person is > > > perfect so it would be good to work hand in hand with the usability team > > > and do real testing to see if we hit common pitfalls. > > > > > I would love to help set up an icon test squad, I can take care of my > > > own handicap and with a bit of wiggling I can send screenshots or my > > > laptop around to my former collegues and get some real feedback from > > > special needs users. But we need more, if anyone knows other special > > > needs users we should welcome them here so that we can get the best > > > compromise between a cool look and a usable look. > > > > This sounds exceptionally helpful and I sincerely hope you do start this > > endeavor. I would be willing to help out. > > Now *that's* how to contribute. Transparent and objective criteria are > a must if you're going to start sampling users for data; see GNOME > Usability or any of dozens of other well-known HIGish projects for ideas > and guidelines. And yet what does the established artwork team do, take me up on my offer and try to work with me or insult me and basically imply that I'm unqualified? Yes, this works ever so well and frankly if this is the kind of response you get for giving feedback on a feature regression with the artwork and offering help with testing then I honestly don't see why I should bother in the future. However in the interest of stretching my patience further today that what logic tells me is sane. I have access to a bunch of very nice people with various handicaps, I am unsure if any of them have vision deficiencies but if nobody at the firm does I'm sure they can put us in contact with all the right people we have a desire to talk to. I will do the legwork and do writeups to any Fedora list of relevance summerizing what could be learned from such real life studies and how the artwork and the general system can be improved to accomidate this group of users. The rationale for doing what we can within the default theme is simple, there isn't another system out there that offers an out of the box experience that works well for a multitude of mildly handicapped people, most of the time expensive specialized software is required or none is available. This means we have a good shot at taking a market with a minimum of effort and intrusion in the existing artwork. We have most of the tools we need and the current artwork is well geared towards lesser vision defiencies (Echo is currently moving away from that though). Specifically I'm interested in color blindness and blurred vision, something that is fairly easy to accomidate and test for using tools already available. I will to the best of my ability try to write up a simpe tool to aid designers in testing locally if there is interest, however I will require some help with the math behind such image transforms - any pointers to books or white papers would be appreciated. Now will I be getting some feedback that doesn't involve words like qualifications or troll this time - if not I'll take the hint and never bother the artwork team again. David From duffy at redhat.com Tue Aug 8 16:40:45 2006 From: duffy at redhat.com (=?UTF-8?B?TcOhaXLDrW4gRHVmZnk=?=) Date: Tue, 08 Aug 2006 12:40:45 -0400 Subject: New Icon Set...[echo]... In-Reply-To: <1155052617.20527.38.camel@price> References: <1154890530.2801.97.camel@price> <44D781C3.2010103@redhat.com> <1154998012.5057.68.camel@price> <44D80BEC.605@redhat.com> <1155045434.6135.45.camel@localhost.localdomain> <1155052617.20527.38.camel@price> Message-ID: <44D8BE8D.2090007@redhat.com> David Nielsen wrote: > What bashing? I was not the one using the term troll to describe a > contributor. One who quite literally hasn't seen family or friends in > weeks either thank you very much. I'm getting quite sick of this, So am I. I asked nicely before; now I'm putting my list-administrator hat on and I am insisting that this fork of the thread is closed, now. If you spent half the time you devoted to trolling this mailing list to actually starting an artwork accessibility testing project you might have contributed something useful. Thank you, ~m From luya_tfz at thefinalzone.com Tue Aug 8 17:03:03 2006 From: luya_tfz at thefinalzone.com (Luya Tshimbalanga) Date: Wed, 09 Aug 2006 01:03:03 +0800 Subject: FreeArt license compatible with GPL and Fedora Project? Message-ID: > See this is why we all love Red Hat, they provide us with a legal team > to give an informed answer rather than these I'm not a lawyer type answers. This is really a great service. > Good luck with you endevours Luya. > - David Thank you David and Paul for these useful informations. Luya Tshimbalanga -- Fedora Project Contributor http://www.fedoraproject.org/wiki/LuyaTshimbalanga http://www.fedoranews.org From dfong at redhat.com Tue Aug 8 17:46:41 2006 From: dfong at redhat.com (Diana Fong) Date: Tue, 08 Aug 2006 13:46:41 -0400 Subject: Icon , Redo - Undo In-Reply-To: References: <1154637054.3341.4.camel@localhost.localdomain> Message-ID: <44D8CE01.8050606@redhat.com> Just reoriented the highlight a bit to match the other icons and put the shadow in...See attached. Icon and color choices still by Mola. =) I'll stick it up in the wiki for you Mola. Diana Leon wrote: > Thank you Mola. They look great. > > Do you mind adding your icons to the wiki: > > http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Artwork/BluecurveAndBeyond/Gallery > > -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: edit-redo.png Type: image/png Size: 3776 bytes Desc: not available URL: -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: edit-undo.png Type: image/png Size: 3624 bytes Desc: not available URL: From dfong at redhat.com Tue Aug 8 19:54:41 2006 From: dfong at redhat.com (Diana Fong) Date: Tue, 08 Aug 2006 15:54:41 -0400 Subject: Names for icons that are not on the Tango list... Message-ID: <44D8EC01.9040907@redhat.com> I created a couple of icons that were not on the Tango list...and so made up my own names accordingly. Examples include: drive-harddisk-usb/firewire, drive-removable-usb/firewire, format-justify-last-left, format-justify-last-right...etc. Hopefully they're ok. Is there a more comprehensive list somewhere that I haven't found or could these extra names be submitted somewhere to Tango to help maintain consistency. I saw this link with the "Icon Naming Specifications" [1] which is not equal to the "Icon Metaphors" list [2]. Lastly...I've made battery icons for PowerManager but the naming scheme is nowhere to be found on Tango. I was pointed to [3] but the names seems different to what might fit in the Tango naming scheme. Please advise. Thanks Diana [1] http://standards.freedesktop.org/icon-naming-spec/icon-naming-spec-latest.html [2] http://tango.freedesktop.org/Icon_Metaphors [3] http://cvs.gnome.org/viewcvs/gnome-power-manager/data/icons/22x22/ From duffy at redhat.com Tue Aug 8 20:02:55 2006 From: duffy at redhat.com (=?ISO-8859-1?Q?M=E1ir=EDn_Duffy?=) Date: Tue, 08 Aug 2006 16:02:55 -0400 Subject: Names for icons that are not on the Tango list... In-Reply-To: <44D8EC01.9040907@redhat.com> References: <44D8EC01.9040907@redhat.com> Message-ID: <44D8EDEF.6000600@redhat.com> Diana Fong wrote: > I created a couple of icons that were not on the Tango list...and so > made up my own names accordingly. Examples include: > drive-harddisk-usb/firewire, drive-removable-usb/firewire, > format-justify-last-left, format-justify-last-right...etc. Hopefully > they're ok. > Is there a more comprehensive list somewhere that I haven't found or > could these extra names be submitted somewhere to Tango to help maintain > consistency. I saw this link with the "Icon Naming Specifications" [1] > which is not equal to the "Icon Metaphors" list [2]. I bet you could talk to dobey about the process for submitting new icon names to the spec. He's usually dobey in #tango on freenode. > Lastly...I've made battery icons for PowerManager but the naming scheme > is nowhere to be found on Tango. I was pointed to [3] but the names > seems different to what might fit in the Tango naming scheme. Not knowing who pointed you there - I would suggest bringing this up with dobey as well. My assumption is that the names would be something like status-power-(string from the gpc icons). So for example: status-power-primary-060-charging status-power-suspend (altho this icon begs me to ask, if your machine was suspended how would you ever be able to see this icon? ;) ) ~m From mlanglie at redhat.com Tue Aug 8 23:07:00 2006 From: mlanglie at redhat.com (Mike Langlie) Date: Tue, 08 Aug 2006 16:07:00 -0700 Subject: gaming-input icon Message-ID: <44D91914.4040101@redhat.com> Here is a stab at an 'input-gaming' icon. (Before shadow is applied.) Any comments or advice? :: Mike :: -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: input-gaming.png Type: image/png Size: 4003 bytes Desc: not available URL: From duffy at redhat.com Tue Aug 8 20:20:01 2006 From: duffy at redhat.com (=?ISO-8859-1?Q?M=E1ir=EDn_Duffy?=) Date: Tue, 08 Aug 2006 16:20:01 -0400 Subject: gaming-input icon In-Reply-To: <44D91914.4040101@redhat.com> References: <44D91914.4040101@redhat.com> Message-ID: <44D8F1F1.8070905@redhat.com> Mike Langlie wrote: > Here is a stab at an 'input-gaming' icon. (Before shadow is applied.) > Any comments or advice? Hmm, it doesn't look like it's at as extreme an angle as the other icons. I'd show a bit more of the right side and skew it a bit more strongly horizontally. Make sense? (Do you have a copy of the grid to guide how much you skew it by?) ~m From mlanglie at redhat.com Tue Aug 8 23:29:27 2006 From: mlanglie at redhat.com (Mike Langlie) Date: Tue, 08 Aug 2006 16:29:27 -0700 Subject: gaming-input icon In-Reply-To: <44D8F1F1.8070905@redhat.com> References: <44D91914.4040101@redhat.com> <44D8F1F1.8070905@redhat.com> Message-ID: <44D91E57.4060302@redhat.com> Thanks, I'll try that. I was going for a tilted-back look, but that may not be appropriate for this style. :: Mike :: M?ir?n Duffy wrote: > Mike Langlie wrote: >> Here is a stab at an 'input-gaming' icon. (Before shadow is applied.) >> Any comments or advice? > > Hmm, it doesn't look like it's at as extreme an angle as the other icons. > > I'd show a bit more of the right side and skew it a bit more strongly > horizontally. Make sense? (Do you have a copy of the grid to guide how > much you skew it by?) > > ~m > > _______________________________________________ > Fedora-art-list mailing list > Fedora-art-list at redhat.com > http://www.redhat.com/mailman/listinfo/fedora-art-list From mlanglie at redhat.com Wed Aug 9 02:18:03 2006 From: mlanglie at redhat.com (Mike Langlie) Date: Tue, 08 Aug 2006 19:18:03 -0700 Subject: input-gaming icon, take 2 Message-ID: <44D945DB.5000007@redhat.com> I redesigned it and stuck to the grid more firmly. Any thoughts? (Icon has no shadow yet.) :: Mike :: -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: input-gaming.png Type: image/png Size: 4396 bytes Desc: not available URL: From david at fubar.dk Tue Aug 8 23:19:16 2006 From: david at fubar.dk (David Zeuthen) Date: Tue, 08 Aug 2006 19:19:16 -0400 Subject: Names for icons that are not on the Tango list... In-Reply-To: <44D8EC01.9040907@redhat.com> References: <44D8EC01.9040907@redhat.com> Message-ID: <1155079156.2356.43.camel@zelda.fubar.dk> On Tue, 2006-08-08 at 15:54 -0400, Diana Fong wrote: > I created a couple of icons that were not on the Tango list...and so > made up my own names accordingly. Examples include: > drive-harddisk-usb/firewire, drive-removable-usb/firewire, > format-justify-last-left, format-justify-last-right...etc. Hopefully > they're ok. > > Is there a more comprehensive list somewhere that I haven't found or > could these extra names be submitted somewhere to Tango to help maintain > consistency. I saw this link with the "Icon Naming Specifications" [1] > which is not equal to the "Icon Metaphors" list [2]. The icon-naming-spec is, to put it nicely (in fact he is being a total jerk), wary of adding e.g. drive-harddisk-usb to the spec and is actively rejecting patches to fix it. See the full thread here http://mail.gnome.org/archives/desktop-devel-list/2006-July/msg00797.html Suggest to use the old names [1] as the software (gnome-vfs) using these icons still expect the old names and we're just not going to change until said maintainer smartens up. FYI, I plan to try to work with dobey (the icon-naming-spec maintainer) and other stakeholders in the community (e.g. KDE people) through the work I'm doing on HAL. Will keep you posted when I know more. [1] : Can be found in this source file - it's in the array called "hal_icon_mapping[]" just a few pages down http://cvs.gnome.org/viewcvs/gnome-vfs/libgnomevfs/gnome-vfs-hal-mounts.c?rev=1.34&view=markup > Lastly...I've made battery icons for PowerManager but the naming scheme > is nowhere to be found on Tango. I was pointed to [3] but the names > seems different to what might fit in the Tango naming scheme. Yes, I'm pretty sure Richard Hughes, g-p-m maintainer, will refuse to cripple his software just becase the icon-naming-spec maintainer has this odd idea that only 'battery-caution', 'battery-low' and 'battery' should be used by g-p-m. I could be wrong (hope I'm not!), so I've Cc'ed Richard on this mail - Richard, can you confirm that g-p-m will stick to the gpm-* icons you already use? Thanks, David From duffy at redhat.com Wed Aug 9 01:13:57 2006 From: duffy at redhat.com (=?ISO-8859-1?Q?M=E1ir=EDn_Duffy?=) Date: Tue, 08 Aug 2006 21:13:57 -0400 Subject: Guidelines for Artists on Usable Icon Design Message-ID: <44D936D5.8060603@redhat.com> Here are some recommendations that artists need to keep in mind when working on the icons to improve their resulting usability. Feel free to discuss and add to this list and we'll start an icon creation guidelines page: - The silhouettes of the icons should be distinctive such that they can be easily discerned. ([2], example 9.1) - Icons should *not* simply be scaled down to smaller (32x32 and less) sizes. They need to be tweaked by hand for their lines to fit within the pixel grid. - 24 x 24 (menus, Fedora panel default size, tasklist items, applets) is the most common size thus the most emphasis should be placed on the clarity and design of the icons at these sizes. - Icons at 24 x 24 and less should have a 'flat' or 'head-on' perspective. (as has been planned) - Icon metaphors should follow the Tango standards when possible for a more consistent cross-Linux desktop experience. Resources: [1] GNOME HIG Chapter 9 - Designing Accessible Icons: http://developer.gnome.org/projects/gup/hig/2.0/icons.html [2] GNOME HIG Chatper 9 - Designing Accessible Icons: Designing Effective Icons: http://developer.gnome.org/projects/gup/hig/2.0/icons-design.html From duffy at redhat.com Wed Aug 9 01:15:54 2006 From: duffy at redhat.com (=?windows-1252?Q?M=E1ir=EDn_Duffy?=) Date: Tue, 08 Aug 2006 21:15:54 -0400 Subject: Icon Usability Project Message-ID: <44D9374A.70500@redhat.com> I would like to propose a project for those who'd like to be involved with the art project but who would prefer not to create artwork to increase the usability of the projects: (1) Create sheets of the currently-designed icons as-is and with various filters applied them to synthesize how they might look from a distance or by visually-impaired users. (2) (Even better) Create a plug-in for the GIMP or Inkscape (similar to the icon view too) so as the artists work on the icons they can preview how their icons would look with the same filters applied to them within their graphics creation tool. The most recent issue of Boxes and Arrows has a very well-written article by Matt Queen about how to analyze and improve icons for discernibility. The two main vectors by which we perceive differences in visual information are: - P pathway - color & detailed shape (parvocellular) - M pathway - gross shape, luminance, motion (magnocellular) The more differences between icons in *both* of these aspects, the more discernable the icon will be. If icons all share the same color scheme and shape, for example, you're losing a lot of bandwidth for making the icons discernable. To make icons more discernible via the M pathway: - most simple method: 'squint' - better method: spatial frequency filtering. The author suggests using the R statistical package [1] (yes, it works on Linux as well as OS X and Windows.) He outlines the methodology quite well in the article. You can see an example of the output here: http://www.boxesandarrows.com/files/banda/icon_analysis/Icon_Analysis-02b-4.jpg Matt's suggestion for how to apply this for the creation of better icons: "I just mentioned in an email to Dustin Hamilton that he hit the nail on the head, distance filtering of icons is an evaluative technique?not a design technique. My knee-jerk reaction of how to coerce this method into a design tool is to create a plug-in for Photoshop or GIMP (preferably) that would allow an auto-updated window of the design space filtered at set distances. That way all design decisions (small and large) could be made in the context of the filtered frequency views. I imagine there is someone out there with enough talent and time to create such a tool. It seems like it would be useful." Thus my suggestion #2 above. Queen points out a paper with the equations upon which such a plug-in could be based on: http://retina.anatomy.upenn.edu/~bart/scriptie.html (see the paragraph that starts with "Later theories of perception yield...") If anyone is interested in this project please reply so we can organize. Also, for the record & to reduce potential confusion, I would like to make clear a non-goal of the Echo icon theme: - The goal of the Echo icon set is *not* to serve as a high-contrast and simple-shape icon set for blind and low-vision users. (The goal is to serve as a more general-purpose icon set.) Thanks, ~m [1] http://www.r-project.org/ From tchung at fedoraproject.org Wed Aug 9 01:23:00 2006 From: tchung at fedoraproject.org (Thomas Chung) Date: Tue, 8 Aug 2006 18:23:00 -0700 Subject: Icon Usability Project In-Reply-To: <44D9374A.70500@redhat.com> References: <44D9374A.70500@redhat.com> Message-ID: <369bce3b0608081823y3828674ckec6df749b775284a@mail.gmail.com> On 8/8/06, M?ir?n Duffy wrote: > I would like to propose a project for those who'd like to be involved > with the art project but who would prefer not to create artwork to > increase the usability of the projects: > > (1) Create sheets of the currently-designed icons as-is and with various > filters applied them to synthesize how they might look from a distance > or by visually-impaired users. > > (2) (Even better) Create a plug-in for the GIMP or Inkscape (similar to > the icon view too) so as the artists work on the icons they can preview > how their icons would look with the same filters applied to them within > their graphics creation tool. > > The most recent issue of Boxes and Arrows has a very well-written > article by Matt Queen about how to analyze and improve icons for > discernibility. > > The two main vectors by which we perceive differences in visual > information are: > > - P pathway - color & detailed shape (parvocellular) > - M pathway - gross shape, luminance, motion (magnocellular) > > The more differences between icons in *both* of these aspects, the more > discernable the icon will be. If icons all share the same color scheme > and shape, for example, you're losing a lot of bandwidth for making the > icons discernable. > > To make icons more discernible via the M pathway: > - most simple method: 'squint' > - better method: spatial frequency filtering. The author suggests using > the R statistical package [1] (yes, it works on Linux as well as OS X > and Windows.) He outlines the methodology quite well in the article. You > can see an example of the output here: > > http://www.boxesandarrows.com/files/banda/icon_analysis/Icon_Analysis-02b-4.jpg > > Matt's suggestion for how to apply this for the creation of better icons: > > "I just mentioned in an email to Dustin Hamilton that he hit the nail on > the head, distance filtering of icons is an evaluative technique?not a > design technique. My knee-jerk reaction of how to coerce this method > into a design tool is to create a plug-in for Photoshop or GIMP > (preferably) that would allow an auto-updated window of the design space > filtered at set distances. That way all design decisions (small and > large) could be made in the context of the filtered frequency views. I > imagine there is someone out there with enough talent and time to create > such a tool. It seems like it would be useful." > > Thus my suggestion #2 above. Queen points out a paper with the equations > upon which such a plug-in could be based on: > > http://retina.anatomy.upenn.edu/~bart/scriptie.html > > (see the paragraph that starts with "Later theories of perception yield...") > > If anyone is interested in this project please reply so we can organize. > > Also, for the record & to reduce potential confusion, I would like to > make clear a non-goal of the Echo icon theme: > > - The goal of the Echo icon set is *not* to serve as a high-contrast and > simple-shape icon set for blind and low-vision users. (The goal is to > serve as a more general-purpose icon set.) > > Thanks, > ~m > > [1] http://www.r-project.org/ > > _______________________________________________ > Fedora-art-list mailing list > Fedora-art-list at redhat.com > http://www.redhat.com/mailman/listinfo/fedora-art-list > Now, I'm really confused. What's the difference from Fedora Usability Project[1] and Icon Usability Project? [1] http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Usability Regards, -- Thomas Chung http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/ThomasChung From duffy at redhat.com Wed Aug 9 01:26:06 2006 From: duffy at redhat.com (=?ISO-8859-1?Q?M=E1ir=EDn_Duffy?=) Date: Tue, 08 Aug 2006 21:26:06 -0400 Subject: RFC: Vision defect control suite for artwork In-Reply-To: <1155019728.5057.259.camel@price> References: <1155019728.5057.259.camel@price> Message-ID: <44D939AE.804@redhat.com> David Nielsen wrote: > During the recent debate on the new icon theme I brought the question of > testing your work against known vision defects like red/green color > blindness, blurry vision and such things. > > However it does not seem that we have an easy to use tool to simulate > all these various issues, therefore I would like to propose that we work > on building one. I would be willing to dust off my coding skills and > give this a shot however I need some help figuring out the math behind > the various defects. I started a new thread on this; you might want to check out some of the links I cited as they have equations that may be useful for blurred vision impairments. > I have been able to dig up all kinds of genetic details as to how this > works but not a single reference to an algorithm we could apply to the > transform operation. From googling for 'color blindness simulation equations' I unearthed the following references: [1] http://steve.hollasch.net/cgindex/color/color-blind.html "Color Blindness Theory, Simulation" [2] http://vision.psychol.cam.ac.uk/jdmollon/papers/Dichromat_simulation.pdf "Computerized simulation of color appearance for dichromats" I'm sure further googling will produce more reference materials. ~m From duffy at redhat.com Wed Aug 9 01:27:57 2006 From: duffy at redhat.com (=?windows-1252?Q?M=E1ir=EDn_Duffy?=) Date: Tue, 08 Aug 2006 21:27:57 -0400 Subject: Icon Usability Project In-Reply-To: <369bce3b0608081823y3828674ckec6df749b775284a@mail.gmail.com> References: <44D9374A.70500@redhat.com> <369bce3b0608081823y3828674ckec6df749b775284a@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <44D93A1D.4000806@redhat.com> Hi Thomas, Thomas Chung wrote: > Now, I'm really confused. > What's the difference from Fedora Usability Project[1] and Icon > Usability Project? lol, this is just an informal project for non-artists who'd like to contribute to Fedora Art. This isn't a formal group or SIG or anything. I'm still kind of confused about the Fedora Usability project - I'm not quite sure it's defined its purpose yet as that's still being debated on fedora-marketing-list. ;) ~m From mlanglie at redhat.com Tue Aug 8 22:37:30 2006 From: mlanglie at redhat.com (Mike Langlie) Date: Tue, 08 Aug 2006 15:37:30 -0700 Subject: input-gaming icon Message-ID: <44D9122A.7060007@redhat.com> Here is a stab at an 'input-gaming' icon. (Before shadow is applied.) Any comments or advice? :: Mike :: -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: input-gaming.ai Type: application/postscript Size: 385512 bytes Desc: not available URL: From duffy at redhat.com Wed Aug 9 03:20:24 2006 From: duffy at redhat.com (=?ISO-8859-1?Q?M=E1ir=EDn_Duffy?=) Date: Tue, 08 Aug 2006 23:20:24 -0400 Subject: Preview of new scaled down icons (was Re: New Icon Set...[echo]...) In-Reply-To: <44D781C3.2010103@redhat.com> References: <1154890530.2801.97.camel@price> <44D781C3.2010103@redhat.com> Message-ID: <44D95478.8050803@redhat.com> Hi, Diana Fong wrote: > Each smaller sizes will have to be either cleaned up at the .png or the > vector stage to make it more readable. Currently, smaller sizes have > not been created. Help is greatly appreciated in this area. Attached is a preview of some of the work I've been doing redrawing the icons with a flat perspective in a 24x24 pixel grid. The icons that have not been scaled down in this mock are the 'Internet' and 'Add/Remove Software' icons. Any feedback on this work thus far is greatly appreciated. Thus far I think I need to: * give the scissors a bit of a lighter touch wrt their outline in the accessories icon * recolor the fill and/or outline of the pen nib in the office icon. * lighten the outline on the gears for 'system' 16x16 versions of these are also available on the wiki. ~m -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: new24x24icons-preview.png Type: image/png Size: 20839 bytes Desc: not available URL: From duffy at redhat.com Wed Aug 9 03:25:03 2006 From: duffy at redhat.com (=?ISO-8859-1?Q?M=E1ir=EDn_Duffy?=) Date: Tue, 08 Aug 2006 23:25:03 -0400 Subject: input-gaming icon, take 2 In-Reply-To: <44D945DB.5000007@redhat.com> References: <44D945DB.5000007@redhat.com> Message-ID: <44D9558F.4060200@redhat.com> Mike Langlie wrote: > I redesigned it and stuck to the grid more firmly. Any thoughts? > > (Icon has no shadow yet.) I like it! The coloring seems a bit harsh to me though - it's not bad, but maybe try to get some more medium values in the gradients? (eg, use a lighter color for the outlines around the joysticks) Otherwise awesome, the shape & perspective looks great. ~m From subsolar at subsolar.com Wed Aug 9 04:33:40 2006 From: subsolar at subsolar.com (Paul) Date: Tue, 08 Aug 2006 23:33:40 -0500 Subject: Preview of new scaled down icons (was Re: New Icon Set...[echo]...) In-Reply-To: <44D95478.8050803@redhat.com> References: <1154890530.2801.97.camel@price> <44D781C3.2010103@redhat.com> <44D95478.8050803@redhat.com> Message-ID: <1155098020.3795.4.camel@localhost.localdomain> On Tue, 2006-08-08 at 23:20 -0400, M?ir?n Duffy wrote: > Attached is a preview of some of the work I've been doing redrawing the > icons with a flat perspective in a 24x24 pixel grid. The icons that have > not been scaled down in this mock are the 'Internet' and 'Add/Remove > Software' icons. > > Any feedback on this work thus far is greatly appreciated. Thus far I > think I need to: > > * give the scissors a bit of a lighter touch wrt their outline in the > accessories icon > * recolor the fill and/or outline of the pen nib in the office icon. > * lighten the outline on the gears for 'system' I would add darken & sharpen up the outline on the top card in 'games' like attached. Paul -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: new24x24icons-preview2.png Type: image/png Size: 20723 bytes Desc: not available URL: From nicu_fedora at nicubunu.ro Wed Aug 9 06:10:53 2006 From: nicu_fedora at nicubunu.ro (Nicu Buculei) Date: Wed, 09 Aug 2006 09:10:53 +0300 Subject: vectorize bitmaps Message-ID: <44D97C6D.7030902@nicubunu.ro> This may be a crazy and worthless idea: I noticed the image-x-generic icon (http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Artwork/EchoDevelopment?action=AttachFile&do=get&target=image-x-genericL.png) contains an embedded bitmap (http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Artwork/EchoDevelopment?action=AttachFile&do=get&target=landscape.jpg). How about using a vectorized version of the bitmap? The downside is the SVG resulted after tracing loses a lot of details and have a large file size, but is much easier to work with it in a vector application. The bitmap after tracing: http://fedora.nicubunu.ro/echo/landscape_traced.svg The image-x-generic icon using the traced vector image instead of bitmap: - SVG: http://fedora.nicubunu.ro/echo/image-x-genericL_traced.svg (yes, is full vector) - PNG: http://fedora.nicubunu.ro/echo/image-x-genericL_traced.png note: I have no shadow and the outline is not quite the same, this can be corrected easily. -- nicu Cool Fedora wallpapers: http://fedora.nicubunu.ro/wallpapers/ Open Clip Art Library: http://www.openclipart.org my Fedora stuff: http://fedora.nicubunu.ro From sundaram at fedoraproject.org Wed Aug 9 06:18:39 2006 From: sundaram at fedoraproject.org (Rahul) Date: Wed, 09 Aug 2006 11:48:39 +0530 Subject: Add this list to gmane In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <44D97E3F.7010907@fedoraproject.org> Leon wrote: > Hi there, > > I'd suggest we add this list to gmane?. What do you think? > > Regards, > > Footnotes: > ? http://gmane.org/add.php Go ahead. You dont even need to ask. Rahul From sundaram at fedoraproject.org Wed Aug 9 06:43:26 2006 From: sundaram at fedoraproject.org (Rahul) Date: Wed, 09 Aug 2006 12:13:26 +0530 Subject: New Icon Set...[echo]... In-Reply-To: <1155018921.5057.245.camel@price> References: <1154890530.2801.97.camel@price> <44D781C3.2010103@redhat.com> <1154998012.5057.68.camel@price> <44D80BEC.605@redhat.com> <1155018921.5057.245.camel@price> Message-ID: <44D9840E.2080101@fedoraproject.org> David Nielsen wrote: > > My apologies, when I see redhat.com in 9 out of 10 cases this means > employee at least that is the historical outlook on things like this. Not for Fedora. There are about a dozen full time Fedora contributors. Rest of us have other work to do as our job. > Just a side question since you aren't a Red Hat employee, why weren't > you given a fedoraproject.org account - not that it's any of my business > but that would make more sense.. I guess IT works in mysterious ways > sometimes. Who said she wasnt? Everybody who signs up for a Fedora account automatically gets a @fedoraproject.org address. > >> This isn't a community project? Diana hasn't made all the icon source >> files available, set up a wiki page for people to contribute easily, >> invited people to comment and help work on it, and we haven't been >> discussing the issue of icon artwork publicly on this list for months? > > And I gave comments, specific feedback.. show me one mail that did not > contain valid concerns. So you expresssed valid concerns and they were accepted since they were already known issues. Please tell me what aspect of this project you dont consider a community one? > > Doer, yes please any opinion I hold does not matter because I have yet > to learn Inkscape. It's not about being loud, it's about the treatment > of special use cases. I still believe that disregarding vision defects > and general poor eyesight will be a problem for Echo and I don't believe > the solution is assigning blame but listening to peoples concerns just > might. You have expressed this concern about a dozen times now. Not really necessary to repeat this so much. > > Why would I need specific SVG knowledge to be useful, I have experience > dealing with handicapped people and it seems that any such input or > concern is not welcomed without SVG skills.. Comments are welcome. Contributions are just welcome even more. We all know that. if that is what it takes > then by all means I'll install Inkspace and come back in 2 years when I > figure out how to use it. Will you listen to concerns about general > design concepts then? Yes having the required skills adds much more real weight to the comments otherwise we are prone to recommend strategies that simply doesnt work. For example you called the top down approach flawed while it is the recommended approach in many cases. https://www.redhat.com/archives/fedora-art-list/2006-August/msg00045.html > And I produced feedback within hours of first being pointed to the work > that had already been done, I believe the first time this got a lot of > publicity was when Rahul posted about it either in his blog or on > fedora-devel, I'm somewhat fuzzy on the details right now sadly. I did > however ask the basicly same questions citing Tango and Bluecurve as > things that worked well in general cases and expressed concern that > those aspects of the current design did not get discarded. Yes, I did blog about it but not sure how much publicity it generated. As far as I can see the only major concern that you have with this theme is at small sizes it doesnt look good and affects usability which is important for visually impaired users. If thats the only one, that is already expressed in several mails now. > > It was not a complaint on the completeness of the theme, but I guess I > won't get far debating this any longer. I would have liked it if we sat > down to debate the requirements of a replacement for Bluecurve because > fundamentally Bluecurve caterred quite well to the group of people I am > talking about in addition to pretty much everyone else. Infact from what > I hear from users around me they really like Bluecurve, many even > install Bluecurve in other distros specifically because they like it so > much. Many people screamed murder too. ESR slammed down the FC5 background and theme you seem to like so much for example. So we have a very vocal set of users either way. The useful parts of the conversation seems to be long since over by now. Rahul From jfrieben at freesurf.fr Wed Aug 9 09:24:39 2006 From: jfrieben at freesurf.fr (Joachim Frieben) Date: Wed, 9 Aug 2006 11:24:39 +0200 (CEST) Subject: Preview of new scaled down icons (was Re: New Icon Set...[echo]...) In-Reply-To: <44D95478.8050803@redhat.com> References: <44D95478.8050803@redhat.com> Message-ID: <44711.194.94.224.254.1155115479.squirrel@jose.freesurf.fr> Flat perspective at 24 pixels seems a bit exaggerated to me. The "Bluecurve" icons work very nicely without this restriction. At 16 pixels however, that is probably the way to go. > > Attached is a preview of some of the work I've been doing redrawing the > icons with a flat perspective in a 24x24 pixel grid. The icons that > have not been scaled down in this mock are the 'Internet' and > 'Add/Remove Software' icons. > From stickster at gmail.com Wed Aug 9 11:52:44 2006 From: stickster at gmail.com (Paul W. Frields) Date: Wed, 09 Aug 2006 07:52:44 -0400 Subject: Icon Usability Project In-Reply-To: <44D93A1D.4000806@redhat.com> References: <44D9374A.70500@redhat.com> <369bce3b0608081823y3828674ckec6df749b775284a@mail.gmail.com> <44D93A1D.4000806@redhat.com> Message-ID: <1155124364.15788.11.camel@localhost.localdomain> On Tue, 2006-08-08 at 21:27 -0400, M?ir?n Duffy wrote: > Hi Thomas, > > Thomas Chung wrote: > > Now, I'm really confused. > > What's the difference from Fedora Usability Project[1] and Icon > > Usability Project? > > lol, this is just an informal project for non-artists who'd like to > contribute to Fedora Art. This isn't a formal group or SIG or anything. > > I'm still kind of confused about the Fedora Usability project - I'm not > quite sure it's defined its purpose yet as that's still being debated on > fedora-marketing-list. ;) Fedora Usability isn't a project as of yet, despite any announcements to the contrary. Right now, we're hashing out on the advisory-board list the issue of group creation under the Fedora umbrella. We want contributors to feel empowered to do new and unique things, as well as improve Fedora. But it has to be done in some trackable way so we don't end up leaking resources over time without results. Also, offiical subprojects like Art, Docs, or Extras need to be able to create working groups to get things done without being hampered by a lot of administrivial nonsense. Names are powerful things, so we can refer to this as an "initiative" or a "SIG" until there's a finished policy, which should be very soon. -- Paul W. Frields, RHCE http://paul.frields.org/ gpg fingerprint: 3DA6 A0AC 6D58 FEC4 0233 5906 ACDB C937 BD11 3717 Fedora Project Board: http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Board Fedora Docs Project: http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/DocsProject -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: signature.asc Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 189 bytes Desc: This is a digitally signed message part URL: From dfong at redhat.com Wed Aug 9 14:26:10 2006 From: dfong at redhat.com (Diana Fong) Date: Wed, 09 Aug 2006 10:26:10 -0400 Subject: vectorize bitmaps In-Reply-To: <44D97C6D.7030902@nicubunu.ro> References: <44D97C6D.7030902@nicubunu.ro> Message-ID: <44D9F082.2090309@redhat.com> Great work Nicu! Vectorizing the bitmap was definitely something that might have been "gotten around to" later...but totally appreciate your insight and initiative to do this. =) A question...The portion that I used was the upper right side with only a bit of the horizon...as shown in my png version of the icon. Is it a lot of work for you to reconvert a cropped version that I send you or should I just alter the vector version? By using more sky and a bit of land, makes the picture a bit more interesting/dynamic...the whole picture is a bit more 50/50 and so has a more heavy and less appealing look...imo. =) Thanks Diana Nicu Buculei wrote: > This may be a crazy and worthless idea: > > I noticed the image-x-generic icon > (http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Artwork/EchoDevelopment?action=AttachFile&do=get&target=image-x-genericL.png) > contains an embedded bitmap > (http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Artwork/EchoDevelopment?action=AttachFile&do=get&target=landscape.jpg). > > > How about using a vectorized version of the bitmap? > > The downside is the SVG resulted after tracing loses a lot of details > and have a large file size, but is much easier to work with it in a > vector application. > > The bitmap after tracing: > http://fedora.nicubunu.ro/echo/landscape_traced.svg > > The image-x-generic icon using the traced vector image instead of bitmap: > - SVG: http://fedora.nicubunu.ro/echo/image-x-genericL_traced.svg > (yes, is full vector) > - PNG: http://fedora.nicubunu.ro/echo/image-x-genericL_traced.png > > note: I have no shadow and the outline is not quite the same, this can > be corrected easily. > From nicu_fedora at nicubunu.ro Wed Aug 9 14:52:26 2006 From: nicu_fedora at nicubunu.ro (Nicu Buculei) Date: Wed, 09 Aug 2006 17:52:26 +0300 Subject: vectorize bitmaps In-Reply-To: <44D9F082.2090309@redhat.com> References: <44D97C6D.7030902@nicubunu.ro> <44D9F082.2090309@redhat.com> Message-ID: <44D9F6AA.3040606@nicubunu.ro> Diana Fong wrote: > A question...The portion that I used was the upper right side with only > a bit of the horizon...as shown in my png version of the icon. Is it a > lot of work for you to reconvert a cropped version that I send you or > should I just alter the vector version? By using more sky and a bit of > land, makes the picture a bit more interesting/dynamic...the whole > picture is a bit more 50/50 and so has a more heavy and less appealing > look...imo. =) Yes, I noticed this too after the fact, but was not sure which portion was used exactly, is *very easy* to redo it, how about this: http://fedora.nicubunu.ro/echo/image-x-genericL_traced1.svg http://fedora.nicubunu.ro/echo/image-x-genericL_traced1.png (used Trace Bitmap in Inkscape, color, 20 scans and started from http://fedora.nicubunu.ro/echo/landscape2.png - IMO the ground is a little too dark) Please note a problem with your SVG for that icon: http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Artwork/EchoDevelopment?action=AttachFile&do=get&target=image-x-genericL.svg is NOT an SVG file, but a PNG with the SVG extension, so I had to edit some other icon to get the base SVG (in this case I used audio-x-generic) -- nicu Cool Fedora wallpapers: http://fedora.nicubunu.ro/wallpapers/ Open Clip Art Library: http://www.openclipart.org my Fedora stuff: http://fedora.nicubunu.ro From dfong at redhat.com Wed Aug 9 14:50:35 2006 From: dfong at redhat.com (Diana Fong) Date: Wed, 09 Aug 2006 10:50:35 -0400 Subject: Preview of new scaled down icons (was Re: New Icon Set...[echo]...) In-Reply-To: <44711.194.94.224.254.1155115479.squirrel@jose.freesurf.fr> References: <44D95478.8050803@redhat.com> <44711.194.94.224.254.1155115479.squirrel@jose.freesurf.fr> Message-ID: <44D9F63B.9030602@redhat.com> I thought at 24x24, the perspective and shadow still held pretty well. I've attached a portion of the screenshot mockups I've posted earlier to the wiki. It is the earlier version to assess the feasibility of the project. From David Neilsen's emails about sizes, I thought maybe the 24x24 should be simplified as well...but...as I look back and forth between the two...I'm not really convinced. I might also be staring at this stuff for much too long so...I'll just post the other version here for discussion. My feedback on the matter is...24x24 should remain in perspective, 16x16 definitely simplified and "flat". However there are also 18 and 22 sizes...22 are usually used in the panel area. In the attached mockup are also a few 22x22 icons on the upper right area of the panel. Dunno...I think they look ok as well. Maybe the break down point is then at 18? Diana Joachim Frieben wrote: > Flat perspective at 24 pixels seems a bit exaggerated to me. The "Bluecurve" > icons work very nicely without this restriction. At 16 pixels however, that > is probably the way to go. > > >> Attached is a preview of some of the work I've been doing redrawing the >> icons with a flat perspective in a 24x24 pixel grid. The icons that >> have not been scaled down in this mock are the 'Internet' and >> 'Add/Remove Software' icons. >> >> > > > _______________________________________________ > Fedora-art-list mailing list > Fedora-art-list at redhat.com > http://www.redhat.com/mailman/listinfo/fedora-art-list > -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: 24-22test.png Type: image/png Size: 33527 bytes Desc: not available URL: From duffy at redhat.com Wed Aug 9 15:02:49 2006 From: duffy at redhat.com (=?ISO-8859-1?Q?M=E1ir=EDn_Duffy?=) Date: Wed, 09 Aug 2006 11:02:49 -0400 Subject: Preview of new scaled down icons (was Re: New Icon Set...[echo]...) In-Reply-To: <44D9F63B.9030602@redhat.com> References: <44D95478.8050803@redhat.com> <44711.194.94.224.254.1155115479.squirrel@jose.freesurf.fr> <44D9F63B.9030602@redhat.com> Message-ID: <44D9F919.8030500@redhat.com> Diana Fong wrote: > My feedback on the matter is...24x24 should remain in perspective, 16x16 > definitely simplified and "flat". However there are also 18 and 22 > sizes...22 are usually used in the panel area. In the attached mockup > are also a few 22x22 icons on the upper right area of the panel. > Dunno...I think they look ok as well. Maybe the break down point is > then at 18? I don't know, in the attached screenshot they look muddy/blurry to me. The edges of the clapper in the sound/video icon, for example, seems to disappear into the background. Put the two side-by-side and squint. The isometric 24x24 icons disappear into the background while the straight-on ones hold their own. If I have time I'll run that low-vision simulation function on the two side-by-side. Also, was any bitmap cleaning up done on these? The vector files should be modified to produce bitmap results like this. Is this a mockup or screenshot? ~m From david at fubar.dk Wed Aug 9 15:04:34 2006 From: david at fubar.dk (David Zeuthen) Date: Wed, 09 Aug 2006 11:04:34 -0400 Subject: Names for icons that are not on the Tango list... In-Reply-To: <1155106901.11623.4.camel@localhost.localdomain> References: <44D8EC01.9040907@redhat.com> <1155079156.2356.43.camel@zelda.fubar.dk> <1155106901.11623.4.camel@localhost.localdomain> Message-ID: <1155135874.2356.70.camel@zelda.fubar.dk> On Wed, 2006-08-09 at 08:01 +0100, Richard Hughes wrote: > > > Lastly...I've made battery icons for PowerManager but the naming scheme > > > is nowhere to be found on Tango. I was pointed to [3] but the names > > > seems different to what might fit in the Tango naming scheme. > > > > Yes, I'm pretty sure Richard Hughes, g-p-m maintainer, will refuse to > > cripple his software just becase the icon-naming-spec maintainer has > > this odd idea that only 'battery-caution', 'battery-low' and 'battery' > > should be used by g-p-m. I could be wrong (hope I'm not!), so I've Cc'ed > > Richard on this mail - Richard, can you confirm that g-p-m will stick to > > the gpm-* icons you already use? > > Ohh yes. I ship tango-style icons by default, but don't touch the ones > in the icons naming spec. There just isn't enough power icons in the > spec. The g-p-m icons are all prefixed with gpm- for clarity. > > For reference, these are the icons I use: > http://cvs.gnome.org/viewcvs/*checkout*/gnome-power-manager/docs/icon-scheme.html Thanks for the quick reply Richard! David From nicu_fedora at nicubunu.ro Wed Aug 9 15:10:47 2006 From: nicu_fedora at nicubunu.ro (Nicu Buculei) Date: Wed, 09 Aug 2006 18:10:47 +0300 Subject: Preview of new scaled down icons (was Re: New Icon Set...[echo]...) In-Reply-To: <44D9F919.8030500@redhat.com> References: <44D95478.8050803@redhat.com> <44711.194.94.224.254.1155115479.squirrel@jose.freesurf.fr> <44D9F63B.9030602@redhat.com> <44D9F919.8030500@redhat.com> Message-ID: <44D9FAF7.1060407@nicubunu.ro> M?ir?n Duffy wrote: > > I don't know, in the attached screenshot they look muddy/blurry to me. > The edges of the clapper in the sound/video icon, for example, seems to > disappear into the background. Put the two side-by-side and squint. The > isometric 24x24 icons disappear into the background while the > straight-on ones hold their own. I did a side by side comparison and it is not fair: the flat (24x24) icons have a much darker outline compared with the perspective (22x22) ones, so naturally the edges will disappear in the background (very visible to Accessories, Games, Office and Sys Tools) -- nicu Cool Fedora wallpapers: http://fedora.nicubunu.ro/wallpapers/ Open Clip Art Library: http://www.openclipart.org my Fedora stuff: http://fedora.nicubunu.ro From duffy at redhat.com Wed Aug 9 15:12:44 2006 From: duffy at redhat.com (=?ISO-8859-1?Q?M=E1ir=EDn_Duffy?=) Date: Wed, 09 Aug 2006 11:12:44 -0400 Subject: Preview of new scaled down icons (was Re: New Icon Set...[echo]...) In-Reply-To: <44D9FAF7.1060407@nicubunu.ro> References: <44D95478.8050803@redhat.com> <44711.194.94.224.254.1155115479.squirrel@jose.freesurf.fr> <44D9F63B.9030602@redhat.com> <44D9F919.8030500@redhat.com> <44D9FAF7.1060407@nicubunu.ro> Message-ID: <44D9FB6C.3050700@redhat.com> Nicu Buculei wrote: > M?ir?n Duffy wrote: >> >> I don't know, in the attached screenshot they look muddy/blurry to me. >> The edges of the clapper in the sound/video icon, for example, seems >> to disappear into the background. Put the two side-by-side and squint. >> The isometric 24x24 icons disappear into the background while the >> straight-on ones hold their own. > > I did a side by side comparison and it is not fair: the flat (24x24) > icons have a much darker outline compared with the perspective (22x22) > ones, so naturally the edges will disappear in the background (very > visible to Accessories, Games, Office and Sys Tools) I'm not grokking how fairness comes into this. The darker outlines were added deliberately so they would stand out against the background. ~m From dfong at redhat.com Wed Aug 9 15:38:54 2006 From: dfong at redhat.com (Diana Fong) Date: Wed, 09 Aug 2006 11:38:54 -0400 Subject: Preview of new scaled down icons (was Re: New Icon Set...[echo]...) In-Reply-To: <44D9F919.8030500@redhat.com> References: <44D95478.8050803@redhat.com> <44711.194.94.224.254.1155115479.squirrel@jose.freesurf.fr> <44D9F63B.9030602@redhat.com> <44D9F919.8030500@redhat.com> Message-ID: <44DA018E.9050102@redhat.com> This is a mockup. Took the icons and put them in the screenshots found on OSDIR.com The other mockups are at [1] As with almost all if the icons, bitmaps were cleaned up. The vector files were the same. The process used was, copy vector, paste into bitmap app, clean up, insert shadow and flatten. Diana [1] http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Artwork/BluecurveAndBeyond/ M?ir?n Duffy wrote: > Diana Fong wrote: >> My feedback on the matter is...24x24 should remain in perspective, >> 16x16 definitely simplified and "flat". However there are also 18 >> and 22 sizes...22 are usually used in the panel area. In the >> attached mockup are also a few 22x22 icons on the upper right area of >> the panel. Dunno...I think they look ok as well. Maybe the break >> down point is then at 18? > > I don't know, in the attached screenshot they look muddy/blurry to me. > The edges of the clapper in the sound/video icon, for example, seems > to disappear into the background. Put the two side-by-side and squint. > The isometric 24x24 icons disappear into the background while the > straight-on ones hold their own. If I have time I'll run that > low-vision simulation function on the two side-by-side. > > Also, was any bitmap cleaning up done on these? The vector files > should be modified to produce bitmap results like this. > > Is this a mockup or screenshot? > > ~m > > _______________________________________________ > Fedora-art-list mailing list > Fedora-art-list at redhat.com > http://www.redhat.com/mailman/listinfo/fedora-art-list From duffy at redhat.com Wed Aug 9 15:43:34 2006 From: duffy at redhat.com (=?ISO-8859-1?Q?M=E1ir=EDn_Duffy?=) Date: Wed, 09 Aug 2006 11:43:34 -0400 Subject: Preview of new scaled down icons (was Re: New Icon Set...[echo]...) In-Reply-To: <44DA018E.9050102@redhat.com> References: <44D95478.8050803@redhat.com> <44711.194.94.224.254.1155115479.squirrel@jose.freesurf.fr> <44D9F63B.9030602@redhat.com> <44D9F919.8030500@redhat.com> <44DA018E.9050102@redhat.com> Message-ID: <44DA02A6.9060702@redhat.com> Diana Fong wrote: > This is a mockup. Took the icons and put them in the screenshots found > on OSDIR.com The other mockups are at [1] > > As with almost all if the icons, bitmaps were cleaned up. The vector > files were the same. The process used was, copy vector, paste into > bitmap app, clean up, insert shadow and flatten. So is the purpose here to create a vector-based icon theme like tango and bluecurve? Because if so this isn't the way to go about doing it. ~m From mlanglie at redhat.com Wed Aug 9 18:52:41 2006 From: mlanglie at redhat.com (Mike Langlie) Date: Wed, 09 Aug 2006 11:52:41 -0700 Subject: input-gaming icon, take 2 In-Reply-To: <44D9558F.4060200@redhat.com> References: <44D945DB.5000007@redhat.com> <44D9558F.4060200@redhat.com> Message-ID: <44DA2EF9.8040309@redhat.com> Here's another version that more closely matches the color scheme of Diana's mouse icon. :: Mike :: M?ir?n Duffy wrote: > Mike Langlie wrote: >> I redesigned it and stuck to the grid more firmly. Any thoughts? >> >> (Icon has no shadow yet.) > > I like it! The coloring seems a bit harsh to me though - it's not bad, > but maybe try to get some more medium values in the gradients? (eg, > use a lighter color for the outlines around the joysticks) > > Otherwise awesome, the shape & perspective looks great. > > ~m > > _______________________________________________ > Fedora-art-list mailing list > Fedora-art-list at redhat.com > http://www.redhat.com/mailman/listinfo/fedora-art-list -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: input-gaming2.png Type: image/png Size: 4132 bytes Desc: not available URL: From dfong at redhat.com Wed Aug 9 15:55:24 2006 From: dfong at redhat.com (Diana Fong) Date: Wed, 09 Aug 2006 11:55:24 -0400 Subject: Names for icons that are not on the Tango list... In-Reply-To: <1155135874.2356.70.camel@zelda.fubar.dk> References: <44D8EC01.9040907@redhat.com> <1155079156.2356.43.camel@zelda.fubar.dk> <1155106901.11623.4.camel@localhost.localdomain> <1155135874.2356.70.camel@zelda.fubar.dk> Message-ID: <44DA056C.7090401@redhat.com> Thanks...I think for now, I'll just name it as you have there. I was thinking that it might have a "battery-" prefix...but I guess that is easy enough to change once more of the naming spec is decided on. I'll also supply the battery-caution/low to satisfy those slots as well. Richard could you send us a note if/when names are decided/changed and if more battery states are added? Thanks Diana David Zeuthen wrote: > On Wed, 2006-08-09 at 08:01 +0100, Richard Hughes wrote: > >>>> Lastly...I've made battery icons for PowerManager but the naming scheme >>>> is nowhere to be found on Tango. I was pointed to [3] but the names >>>> seems different to what might fit in the Tango naming scheme. >>>> >>> Yes, I'm pretty sure Richard Hughes, g-p-m maintainer, will refuse to >>> cripple his software just becase the icon-naming-spec maintainer has >>> this odd idea that only 'battery-caution', 'battery-low' and 'battery' >>> should be used by g-p-m. I could be wrong (hope I'm not!), so I've Cc'ed >>> Richard on this mail - Richard, can you confirm that g-p-m will stick to >>> the gpm-* icons you already use? >>> >> Ohh yes. I ship tango-style icons by default, but don't touch the ones >> in the icons naming spec. There just isn't enough power icons in the >> spec. The g-p-m icons are all prefixed with gpm- for clarity. >> >> For reference, these are the icons I use: >> http://cvs.gnome.org/viewcvs/*checkout*/gnome-power-manager/docs/icon-scheme.html >> > > Thanks for the quick reply Richard! > > David > > > From dfong at redhat.com Wed Aug 9 16:00:10 2006 From: dfong at redhat.com (Diana Fong) Date: Wed, 09 Aug 2006 12:00:10 -0400 Subject: input-gaming icon, take 2 In-Reply-To: <44DA2EF9.8040309@redhat.com> References: <44D945DB.5000007@redhat.com> <44D9558F.4060200@redhat.com> <44DA2EF9.8040309@redhat.com> Message-ID: <44DA068A.5040903@redhat.com> purty... =) let's go with this one. diana Mike Langlie wrote: > Here's another version that more closely matches the color scheme of > Diana's mouse icon. > > :: Mike :: > > M?ir?n Duffy wrote: >> Mike Langlie wrote: >>> I redesigned it and stuck to the grid more firmly. Any thoughts? >>> >>> (Icon has no shadow yet.) >> >> I like it! The coloring seems a bit harsh to me though - it's not >> bad, but maybe try to get some more medium values in the gradients? >> (eg, use a lighter color for the outlines around the joysticks) >> >> Otherwise awesome, the shape & perspective looks great. >> >> ~m >> >> _______________________________________________ >> Fedora-art-list mailing list >> Fedora-art-list at redhat.com >> http://www.redhat.com/mailman/listinfo/fedora-art-list > > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------ > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------ > > _______________________________________________ > Fedora-art-list mailing list > Fedora-art-list at redhat.com > http://www.redhat.com/mailman/listinfo/fedora-art-list > From duffy at redhat.com Wed Aug 9 16:35:25 2006 From: duffy at redhat.com (=?ISO-8859-1?Q?M=E1ir=EDn_Duffy?=) Date: Wed, 09 Aug 2006 12:35:25 -0400 Subject: Preview of new scaled down icons (was Re: New Icon Set...[echo]...) In-Reply-To: <44DA02A6.9060702@redhat.com> References: <44D95478.8050803@redhat.com> <44711.194.94.224.254.1155115479.squirrel@jose.freesurf.fr> <44D9F63B.9030602@redhat.com> <44D9F919.8030500@redhat.com> <44DA018E.9050102@redhat.com> <44DA02A6.9060702@redhat.com> Message-ID: <44DA0ECD.6050006@redhat.com> M?ir?n Duffy wrote: > Diana Fong wrote: >> This is a mockup. Took the icons and put them in the screenshots >> found on OSDIR.com The other mockups are at [1] >> >> As with almost all if the icons, bitmaps were cleaned up. The vector >> files were the same. The process used was, copy vector, paste into >> bitmap app, clean up, insert shadow and flatten. > > So is the purpose here to create a vector-based icon theme like tango > and bluecurve? > > Because if so this isn't the way to go about doing it. Ah let me qualify this since I think it came off entirely the wrong way... that is what I get for sending emails with a phone to my ear. :-p Do we need vectors of the icons scaled down for various sizes? Is there a use for this? It seems as if it would make it easier to create the icons at various small sizes to at least have a large vector and a small vector copy. Tango seems to just have one vector per set of icon with multiple sizes. With Bluecurve, I'm pretty sure the vector source files are actually different on a per-size basis. My assumption was that it was better to have vector formats whenever possible, as it would help make the scaled-down versions of different icons more consistent across icons as well as within a single icon of various sizes. At least for the icons whose perspective will be changed from isometric to flat, it seems as if it would be useful to have a flat as well as isometric version of the icon whether or not the flat vector was specifically optimized for small sizes. Another reason to have vector formats whenever possible is that the more programmatically the icons are produced, the more leverage we could get with making changes across the set in one step with a script. So if one day we decide the drop shadow is too wide, for example, with one simple script we could decrease it by a point or two. Also, it does not seem right to be adding the shadows bitmap-wise. They should be in the SVGs. Make sense? ~m From hughsient at gmail.com Wed Aug 9 16:54:07 2006 From: hughsient at gmail.com (Richard Hughes) Date: Wed, 09 Aug 2006 17:54:07 +0100 Subject: Names for icons that are not on the Tango list... In-Reply-To: <44DA056C.7090401@redhat.com> References: <44D8EC01.9040907@redhat.com> <1155079156.2356.43.camel@zelda.fubar.dk> <1155106901.11623.4.camel@localhost.localdomain> <1155135874.2356.70.camel@zelda.fubar.dk> <44DA056C.7090401@redhat.com> Message-ID: <1155142447.12524.2.camel@localhost.localdomain> On Wed, 2006-08-09 at 11:55 -0400, Diana Fong wrote: > Thanks...I think for now, I'll just name it as you have there. I was > thinking that it might have a "battery-" prefix...but I guess that is > easy enough to change once more of the naming spec is decided on. I'll > also supply the battery-caution/low to satisfy those slots as well. Well, I did originally have battery-*, but without being in the spec, a name clash seemed inevitable. Hence the gpm-* prefix. > Richard could you send us a note if/when names are decided/changed and > if more battery states are added? Will do. I'll not add anymore in the 2.15/2.16 timeframe if that helps. Richard. From subsolar at subsolar.com Thu Aug 10 03:25:19 2006 From: subsolar at subsolar.com (Paul) Date: Wed, 09 Aug 2006 22:25:19 -0500 Subject: Preview of new scaled down icons (was Re: New Icon Set...[echo]...) In-Reply-To: <44D9F63B.9030602@redhat.com> References: <44D95478.8050803@redhat.com> <44711.194.94.224.254.1155115479.squirrel@jose.freesurf.fr> <44D9F63B.9030602@redhat.com> Message-ID: <1155180319.4096.4.camel@localhost.localdomain> On Wed, 2006-08-09 at 10:50 -0400, Diana Fong wrote: > I thought at 24x24, the perspective and shadow still held pretty well. > I've attached a portion of the screenshot mockups I've posted earlier to > the wiki. It is the earlier version to assess the feasibility of the > project. > > From David Neilsen's emails about sizes, I thought maybe the 24x24 > should be simplified as well...but...as I look back and forth between > the two...I'm not really convinced. I might also be staring at this > stuff for much too long so...I'll just post the other version here for > discussion. > > My feedback on the matter is...24x24 should remain in perspective, 16x16 > definitely simplified and "flat". However there are also 18 and 22 > sizes...22 are usually used in the panel area. In the attached mockup > are also a few 22x22 icons on the upper right area of the panel. > Dunno...I think they look ok as well. Maybe the break down point is > then at 18? Well the office icon seems somewhat ambiguous, possibly making the pen container somewhat bigger would help, also adding a slight outline would help in my opinion. Generally they don't look too bad, the rest are identifiable as to what they are supposed to be. Paul From subsolar at subsolar.com Thu Aug 10 03:39:06 2006 From: subsolar at subsolar.com (Paul) Date: Wed, 09 Aug 2006 22:39:06 -0500 Subject: vectorize bitmaps In-Reply-To: <44D9F082.2090309@redhat.com> References: <44D97C6D.7030902@nicubunu.ro> <44D9F082.2090309@redhat.com> Message-ID: <1155181146.4096.7.camel@localhost.localdomain> On Wed, 2006-08-09 at 10:26 -0400, Diana Fong wrote: > Great work Nicu! Vectorizing the bitmap was definitely something that > might have been "gotten around to" later...but totally appreciate your > insight and initiative to do this. =) > > A question...The portion that I used was the upper right side with only > a bit of the horizon...as shown in my png version of the icon. Is it a > lot of work for you to reconvert a cropped version that I send you or > should I just alter the vector version? By using more sky and a bit of > land, makes the picture a bit more interesting/dynamic...the whole > picture is a bit more 50/50 and so has a more heavy and less appealing > look...imo. =) This got me thinking, you were looking for ideas for the logout icon, what about a door opening to the outdoors instead of a black space? Paul From luya_tfz at thefinalzone.com Thu Aug 10 17:02:24 2006 From: luya_tfz at thefinalzone.com (Luya Tshimbalanga) Date: Fri, 11 Aug 2006 01:02:24 +0800 Subject: Completed set of small emotes Message-ID: I completed the set of small emotes. I am not sure if it is a good idea to put a GPL license. Anyway, take a look on http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Artwork/EchoDevelopment From luya_tfz at thefinalzone.com Thu Aug 10 17:04:24 2006 From: luya_tfz at thefinalzone.com (Luya Tshimbalanga) Date: Fri, 11 Aug 2006 01:04:24 +0800 Subject: Completed set of small emotes Message-ID: I completed the set of small emotes. I am not sure if it is a good idea to put a GPL license. Anyway, take a look on http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Artwork/EchoDevelopment From dfong at redhat.com Thu Aug 10 19:08:23 2006 From: dfong at redhat.com (Diana Fong) Date: Thu, 10 Aug 2006 15:08:23 -0400 Subject: Preview of new scaled down icons (was Re: New Icon Set...[echo]...) In-Reply-To: <44DA0ECD.6050006@redhat.com> References: <44D95478.8050803@redhat.com> <44711.194.94.224.254.1155115479.squirrel@jose.freesurf.fr> <44D9F63B.9030602@redhat.com> <44D9F919.8030500@redhat.com> <44DA018E.9050102@redhat.com> <44DA02A6.9060702@redhat.com> <44DA0ECD.6050006@redhat.com> Message-ID: <44DB8427.8000707@redhat.com> The way I see/saw it was to have at least 2 vector versions for each file. One for the Larger sizes (following the isometric grid) and one for the Smaller sizes (which is a simplified version and at a head-on view). As to where the break down point is, I did not know whether it was at 24 or at the next size down...so my plan was to create "small" for 16x16. With the two ends of the spectrum, we could then either enlarge the smaller vector or shrink the larger one. If the icon's shape is changed at any point along the way (which some will probably have to)...meaning that it is not merely some pixel cleanup...then a vector file should also be provided to accompany the .png. I was also not sure why Tango only had one vector file (of the large size per icon) when some of their icons looks very different at the three sizes. So, NO, we're definitely not doing that. Bluecurve does have vector files at it's various sizes but a large number are just a resizing of the larger icon vector. This is something that I would like to do eventually. But given the time and resource constraints now, I don't see the point in saving several versions of the same vector file, but just smaller. This is not to say that it shouldn't be done...but perhaps after we get a good set going. Post-release, I do plan on cleaning up the .svgs, creating various sizes, and also adding in the shadow in the svg file (I just can't get it to look good now). In conclusion...each icon should have at least one large vector and one small vector version. If you feel that icon sizes in between need special attention resulting in an altered vector file, please do so and post that. Diana M?ir?n Duffy wrote: > M?ir?n Duffy wrote: >> Diana Fong wrote: >>> This is a mockup. Took the icons and put them in the screenshots >>> found on OSDIR.com The other mockups are at [1] >>> >>> As with almost all if the icons, bitmaps were cleaned up. The >>> vector files were the same. The process used was, copy vector, paste >>> into bitmap app, clean up, insert shadow and flatten. >> >> So is the purpose here to create a vector-based icon theme like tango >> and bluecurve? >> >> Because if so this isn't the way to go about doing it. > > Ah let me qualify this since I think it came off entirely the wrong > way... that is what I get for sending emails with a phone to my ear. :-p > > Do we need vectors of the icons scaled down for various sizes? Is > there a use for this? It seems as if it would make it easier to create > the icons at various small sizes to at least have a large vector and a > small vector copy. Tango seems to just have one vector per set of icon > with multiple sizes. With Bluecurve, I'm pretty sure the vector source > files are actually different on a per-size basis. > > My assumption was that it was better to have vector formats whenever > possible, as it would help make the scaled-down versions of different > icons more consistent across icons as well as within a single icon of > various sizes. At least for the icons whose perspective will be > changed from isometric to flat, it seems as if it would be useful to > have a flat as well as isometric version of the icon whether or not > the flat vector was specifically optimized for small sizes. > > Another reason to have vector formats whenever possible is that the > more programmatically the icons are produced, the more leverage we > could get with making changes across the set in one step with a > script. So if one day we decide the drop shadow is too wide, for > example, with one simple script we could decrease it by a point or two. > > Also, it does not seem right to be adding the shadows bitmap-wise. > They should be in the SVGs. > > Make sense? > > ~m > > _______________________________________________ > Fedora-art-list mailing list > Fedora-art-list at redhat.com > http://www.redhat.com/mailman/listinfo/fedora-art-list From dfong at redhat.com Thu Aug 10 20:00:04 2006 From: dfong at redhat.com (Diana Fong) Date: Thu, 10 Aug 2006 16:00:04 -0400 Subject: vectorize bitmaps In-Reply-To: <44D9F6AA.3040606@nicubunu.ro> References: <44D97C6D.7030902@nicubunu.ro> <44D9F082.2090309@redhat.com> <44D9F6AA.3040606@nicubunu.ro> Message-ID: <44DB9044.9070704@redhat.com> Nicu Buculei wrote: > Yes, I noticed this too after the fact, but was not sure which portion > was used exactly, is *very easy* to redo it, how about this: > http://fedora.nicubunu.ro/echo/image-x-genericL_traced1.svg > http://fedora.nicubunu.ro/echo/image-x-genericL_traced1.png > (used Trace Bitmap in Inkscape, color, 20 scans and started from > http://fedora.nicubunu.ro/echo/landscape2.png - IMO the ground is a > little too dark) > Ah I see...=) I tried to modify the colors to match...but the stacked layers made it difficult to tweak the shapes...so I reconverted and tried to match the colors with the new shapes. Check it out... http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Artwork/EchoDevelopment?action=AttachFile&do=get&target=image-x-genericL.svg > Please note a problem with your SVG for that icon: > http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Artwork/EchoDevelopment?action=AttachFile&do=get&target=image-x-genericL.svg > is NOT an SVG file, but a PNG with the SVG extension, so I had to edit > some other icon to get the base SVG (in this case I used audio-x-generic) > Fixed...=) Diana From duffy at redhat.com Thu Aug 10 20:28:05 2006 From: duffy at redhat.com (=?ISO-8859-1?Q?M=E1ir=EDn_Duffy?=) Date: Thu, 10 Aug 2006 16:28:05 -0400 Subject: Home folder icon Message-ID: <44DB96D5.7000609@redhat.com> Might I suggest some alternatives for the home folder icon? It currently looks like the house icon is tilted back, leaning against the folder. I think it would make more sense for such 'modifier' subicons to have a straight-on perspective. Attaching original & 2 modifications. ~m -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: home-current.png Type: image/png Size: 21084 bytes Desc: not available URL: -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: home-1.png Type: image/png Size: 18839 bytes Desc: not available URL: -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: home-2.png Type: image/png Size: 17263 bytes Desc: not available URL: -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: user-homeL-2.svg Type: image/svg+xml Size: 490437 bytes Desc: not available URL: From duffy at redhat.com Fri Aug 11 00:54:58 2006 From: duffy at redhat.com (=?ISO-8859-1?Q?M=E1ir=EDn_Duffy?=) Date: Thu, 10 Aug 2006 20:54:58 -0400 Subject: Preview of new scaled down icons (was Re: New Icon Set...[echo]...) In-Reply-To: <44DB8427.8000707@redhat.com> References: <44D95478.8050803@redhat.com> <44711.194.94.224.254.1155115479.squirrel@jose.freesurf.fr> <44D9F63B.9030602@redhat.com> <44D9F919.8030500@redhat.com> <44DA018E.9050102@redhat.com> <44DA02A6.9060702@redhat.com> <44DA0ECD.6050006@redhat.com> <44DB8427.8000707@redhat.com> Message-ID: <44DBD562.1020405@redhat.com> Diana Fong wrote: > The way I see/saw it was to have at least 2 vector versions for each > file. One for the Larger sizes (following the isometric grid) and one > for the Smaller sizes (which is a simplified version and at a head-on > view). As to where the break down point is, I did not know whether it > was at 24 or at the next size down...so my plan was to create "small" > for 16x16. With the two ends of the spectrum, we could then either > enlarge the smaller vector or shrink the larger one. This won't address the sized-down versions of the large icons which have fine details that would never stand out with straight-up scaling. So it looks like for most icons there should be at least 3 SVGs: - full size, isometric - small, straight on - small, isometric > Bluecurve does have vector files at it's various sizes but a large > number are just a resizing of the larger icon vector. The Bluecurve icons do take to being straight-up scaled a lot better though. Probably because of their strong outlines. But I know I have worked with a few Bluecurve icons that at different sizes appeared to have modifications on the line thickness in the different sizes at the very least. > This is something > that I would like to do eventually. But given the time and resource > constraints now, I don't see the point in saving several versions of the > same vector file, but just smaller. I'm not following. Are you saying it will save time now to scale down the large versions via touching up the bitmap, and that at some point in the future we should make scaled-down vector versions of the touch-up? Again, when I'm suggesting multiple size versions of the vector, I'm *not* suggesting the same exact vectors merely scaled down. (If you really had a desire to do this, it could be scripted easily.) I'm suggesting the vectors scaled down with manual modifications *in the vector* to clarify the bitmap output. Common tweaks would be line thickening, shape simplification, gradient modification, etc. This would not take any extra time, as it would replace touching up the icons bitmap-wise. You wouldn't have to do that if you 'touched up' the vector. And, it takes about the same amount of time to do either. > In conclusion...each icon should have at least one large vector and one > small vector version. If you feel that icon sizes in between need > special attention resulting in an altered vector file, please do so and > post that. I just don't think, across the whole set, 2 SVGs would be sufficient since the icons are changing perspective. If they were not changing perspective, then it might not be too much of a stretch to scale the small size vector up to create larger-sized bitmaps. But in this case, it's just not going to work because of the perspective differences. Even in your mockup you had to touch up the larger sized icons. ~m From sundaram at fedoraproject.org Fri Aug 11 01:04:06 2006 From: sundaram at fedoraproject.org (Rahul) Date: Fri, 11 Aug 2006 06:34:06 +0530 Subject: Testing out the theme Message-ID: <44DBD786.2020704@fedoraproject.org> Hi Users who want to take a look at this new Echo theme would want a quick and easy way to install and check it out. Currently all I see is a list of SVG files in a wiki page. Can we put up a tarball appropriately packaged or a RPM package that is updated frequently perhaps? Rahul From dfong at redhat.com Fri Aug 11 01:44:55 2006 From: dfong at redhat.com (Diana Fong) Date: Thu, 10 Aug 2006 21:44:55 -0400 Subject: Preview of new scaled down icons (was Re: New Icon Set...[echo]...) In-Reply-To: <44DBD562.1020405@redhat.com> References: <44D95478.8050803@redhat.com> <44711.194.94.224.254.1155115479.squirrel@jose.freesurf.fr> <44D9F63B.9030602@redhat.com> <44D9F919.8030500@redhat.com> <44DA018E.9050102@redhat.com> <44DA02A6.9060702@redhat.com> <44DA0ECD.6050006@redhat.com> <44DB8427.8000707@redhat.com> <44DBD562.1020405@redhat.com> Message-ID: <44DBE117.1080705@redhat.com> I think the jist of your original message(s) was whether there should be multiple vector versions per icon...and my response was/is yes. I was saying at least 2...but doesn't preclude an icon from having 3, 4, 5...etc. Or as you are suggesting now, at least 3. As a matter of fact, I've just uploaded a few by MikeLanglie which has 3 svgs because the line weight, gradient, and shape was simplified/changed. Diana M?ir?n Duffy wrote: > Diana Fong wrote: >> The way I see/saw it was to have at least 2 vector versions for each >> file. One for the Larger sizes (following the isometric grid) and >> one for the Smaller sizes (which is a simplified version and at a >> head-on view). As to where the break down point is, I did not know >> whether it was at 24 or at the next size down...so my plan was to >> create "small" for 16x16. With the two ends of the spectrum, we >> could then either enlarge the smaller vector or shrink the larger one. > > This won't address the sized-down versions of the large icons which > have fine details that would never stand out with straight-up scaling. > So it looks like for most icons there should be at least 3 SVGs: > > - full size, isometric > - small, straight on > - small, isometric > >> Bluecurve does have vector files at it's various sizes but a large >> number are just a resizing of the larger icon vector. > > The Bluecurve icons do take to being straight-up scaled a lot better > though. Probably because of their strong outlines. But I know I have > worked with a few Bluecurve icons that at different sizes appeared to > have modifications on the line thickness in the different sizes at the > very least. > > > This is something >> that I would like to do eventually. But given the time and resource >> constraints now, I don't see the point in saving several versions of >> the same vector file, but just smaller. > > I'm not following. Are you saying it will save time now to scale down > the large versions via touching up the bitmap, and that at some point > in the future we should make scaled-down vector versions of the touch-up? > > Again, when I'm suggesting multiple size versions of the vector, I'm > *not* suggesting the same exact vectors merely scaled down. (If you > really had a desire to do this, it could be scripted easily.) I'm > suggesting the vectors scaled down with manual modifications *in the > vector* to clarify the bitmap output. Common tweaks would be line > thickening, shape simplification, gradient modification, etc. > > This would not take any extra time, as it would replace touching up > the icons bitmap-wise. You wouldn't have to do that if you 'touched > up' the vector. And, it takes about the same amount of time to do either. > >> In conclusion...each icon should have at least one large vector and >> one small vector version. If you feel that icon sizes in between >> need special attention resulting in an altered vector file, please do >> so and post that. > > I just don't think, across the whole set, 2 SVGs would be sufficient > since the icons are changing perspective. If they were not changing > perspective, then it might not be too much of a stretch to scale the > small size vector up to create larger-sized bitmaps. But in this case, > it's just not going to work because of the perspective differences. > Even in your mockup you had to touch up the larger sized icons. > > ~m > > _______________________________________________ > Fedora-art-list mailing list > Fedora-art-list at redhat.com > http://www.redhat.com/mailman/listinfo/fedora-art-list From duffy at redhat.com Fri Aug 11 01:54:01 2006 From: duffy at redhat.com (=?ISO-8859-1?Q?M=E1ir=EDn_Duffy?=) Date: Thu, 10 Aug 2006 21:54:01 -0400 Subject: Preview of new scaled down icons (was Re: New Icon Set...[echo]...) In-Reply-To: <44DBE117.1080705@redhat.com> References: <44D95478.8050803@redhat.com> <44711.194.94.224.254.1155115479.squirrel@jose.freesurf.fr> <44D9F63B.9030602@redhat.com> <44D9F919.8030500@redhat.com> <44DA018E.9050102@redhat.com> <44DA02A6.9060702@redhat.com> <44DA0ECD.6050006@redhat.com> <44DB8427.8000707@redhat.com> <44DBD562.1020405@redhat.com> <44DBE117.1080705@redhat.com> Message-ID: <44DBE339.6080401@redhat.com> Diana Fong wrote: > I think the jist of your original message(s) was whether there should be > multiple vector versions per icon...and my response was/is yes. I was > saying at least 2...but doesn't preclude an icon from having 3, 4, > 5...etc. Or as you are suggesting now, at least 3. As a matter of > fact, I've just uploaded a few by MikeLanglie which has 3 svgs because > the line weight, gradient, and shape was simplified/changed. Mike's icons that you just uploaded have a straight-on perspective for the 24x24 versions. So are we going with straight-on for 24x24 then? ~m From nicu_fedora at nicubunu.ro Fri Aug 11 07:52:43 2006 From: nicu_fedora at nicubunu.ro (Nicu Buculei) Date: Fri, 11 Aug 2006 10:52:43 +0300 Subject: Completed set of small emotes In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <44DC374B.60500@nicubunu.ro> Luya Tshimbalanga wrote: > I completed the set of small emotes. I am not sure if it is a good idea > to put a GPL license. Anyway, take a look on > http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Artwork/EchoDevelopment My two cents: Can you make the outlines stronger? And use a gradient for outlines, like in the other icons. For angel and devil consider making the details more evident/contrasting, I barely see the halo and the horns. The same for the crying icon: one single tear is enough as a metaphor, having so many they are small and invisible. So leave just one or two big tears. I understand blue is the defining color of the theme, but I feel a classic yellow would be better for this group of icons. As for GPL, I do not think the license for the theme was decided, last time we talked about it CC Attribution Share Alike was proposed, but there were objections about it being compatible with GPL. PS: some days ago I experimented a little myself with emotes, not liked enough my work and seeing you already started on this did not bothered to continue and trash-canned it: http://fedora.nicubunu.ro/echo/face_smile_big.svg -- nicu Cool Fedora wallpapers: http://fedora.nicubunu.ro/wallpapers/ Open Clip Art Library: http://www.openclipart.org my Fedora stuff: http://fedora.nicubunu.ro From stickster at gmail.com Fri Aug 11 12:08:05 2006 From: stickster at gmail.com (Paul W. Frields) Date: Fri, 11 Aug 2006 08:08:05 -0400 Subject: Completed set of small emotes In-Reply-To: <44DC374B.60500@nicubunu.ro> References: <44DC374B.60500@nicubunu.ro> Message-ID: <1155298085.3409.4.camel@localhost.localdomain> On Fri, 2006-08-11 at 10:52 +0300, Nicu Buculei wrote: > Luya Tshimbalanga wrote: > > I completed the set of small emotes. I am not sure if it is a good idea > > to put a GPL license. Anyway, take a look on > > http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Artwork/EchoDevelopment > [...snip...] > As for GPL, I do not think the license for the theme was decided, last > time we talked about it CC Attribution Share Alike was proposed, but > there were objections about it being compatible with GPL. The GPL can work for art, with the SVG representing the source code. I've also brought the "Free Art License" before the advisory board for input. -- Paul W. Frields, RHCE http://paul.frields.org/ gpg fingerprint: 3DA6 A0AC 6D58 FEC4 0233 5906 ACDB C937 BD11 3717 Fedora Project Board: http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Board Fedora Docs Project: http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/DocsProject -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: signature.asc Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 189 bytes Desc: This is a digitally signed message part URL: From sundaram at fedoraproject.org Fri Aug 11 12:31:57 2006 From: sundaram at fedoraproject.org (Rahul) Date: Fri, 11 Aug 2006 18:01:57 +0530 Subject: [Fwd: [Ambassadors] Need graphics/artwork for stickers] Message-ID: <44DC78BD.2040706@fedoraproject.org> Hi Can anyone help with this? Rahul -------------- next part -------------- An embedded message was scrubbed... From: Sankarshan Mukhopadhyay Subject: [Ambassadors] Need graphics/artwork for stickers Date: Fri, 11 Aug 2006 12:58:22 +0530 Size: 3870 URL: From dfong at redhat.com Fri Aug 11 14:29:08 2006 From: dfong at redhat.com (Diana Fong) Date: Fri, 11 Aug 2006 10:29:08 -0400 Subject: Preview of new scaled down icons (was Re: New Icon Set...[echo]...) In-Reply-To: <44DBE339.6080401@redhat.com> References: <44D95478.8050803@redhat.com> <44711.194.94.224.254.1155115479.squirrel@jose.freesurf.fr> <44D9F63B.9030602@redhat.com> <44D9F919.8030500@redhat.com> <44DA018E.9050102@redhat.com> <44DA02A6.9060702@redhat.com> <44DA0ECD.6050006@redhat.com> <44DB8427.8000707@redhat.com> <44DBD562.1020405@redhat.com> <44DBE117.1080705@redhat.com> <44DBE339.6080401@redhat.com> Message-ID: <44DC9434.50504@redhat.com> M?ir?n Duffy wrote: > Diana Fong wrote: >> I think the jist of your original message(s) was whether there should >> be multiple vector versions per icon...and my response was/is yes. I >> was saying at least 2...but doesn't preclude an icon from having 3, >> 4, 5...etc. Or as you are suggesting now, at least 3. As a matter >> of fact, I've just uploaded a few by MikeLanglie which has 3 svgs >> because the line weight, gradient, and shape was simplified/changed. > > Mike's icons that you just uploaded have a straight-on perspective for > the 24x24 versions. So are we going with straight-on for 24x24 then? > > ~m The ones I had uploaded were...dialog-cancel/close/ok...of the "Action Icons" category. All Action Icons should be of a straight on perspective. This does not mean that all 24x24 are going with the straight on perspective. I still believe that the perspective view still holds pretty well at 24x24. I have also uploaded his...dialog-error/question/warning icons as well (in the Status Icons category)...which has perspective 24x24 versions and think they came out pretty well. Diana From dfong at redhat.com Fri Aug 11 14:37:03 2006 From: dfong at redhat.com (Diana Fong) Date: Fri, 11 Aug 2006 10:37:03 -0400 Subject: Testing out the theme In-Reply-To: <44DBD786.2020704@fedoraproject.org> References: <44DBD786.2020704@fedoraproject.org> Message-ID: <44DC960F.6070402@redhat.com> I was thinking of asking all contributors to send me a .tar of their .svg and .pngs to which I can add to my existing set and post up the PNG .tar and also a PNG+SVG .tar this week as I did last week...and if Leon can do what he did last time of creating a package as well. Is there a better way? diana Rahul wrote: > Hi > > Users who want to take a look at this new Echo theme would want a > quick and easy way to install and check it out. > > Currently all I see is a list of SVG files in a wiki page. Can we put > up a tarball appropriately packaged or a RPM package that is updated > frequently perhaps? > > Rahul > > _______________________________________________ > Fedora-art-list mailing list > Fedora-art-list at redhat.com > http://www.redhat.com/mailman/listinfo/fedora-art-list From duffy at redhat.com Fri Aug 11 14:56:28 2006 From: duffy at redhat.com (=?ISO-8859-1?Q?M=E1ir=EDn_Duffy?=) Date: Fri, 11 Aug 2006 10:56:28 -0400 Subject: Preview of new scaled down icons (was Re: New Icon Set...[echo]...) In-Reply-To: <44DC9434.50504@redhat.com> References: <44D95478.8050803@redhat.com> <44711.194.94.224.254.1155115479.squirrel@jose.freesurf.fr> <44D9F63B.9030602@redhat.com> <44D9F919.8030500@redhat.com> <44DA018E.9050102@redhat.com> <44DA02A6.9060702@redhat.com> <44DA0ECD.6050006@redhat.com> <44DB8427.8000707@redhat.com> <44DBD562.1020405@redhat.com> <44DBE117.1080705@redhat.com> <44DBE339.6080401@redhat.com> <44DC9434.50504@redhat.com> Message-ID: <44DC9A9C.4090002@redhat.com> Diana Fong wrote: > The ones I had uploaded were...dialog-cancel/close/ok...of the "Action > Icons" category. All Action Icons should be of a straight on > perspective. Is this guideline anywhere on the page? Is this a Tango guideline? Can we link to it or add a note about it? What other icon types need straight-on for 24 x 24? > This does not mean that all 24x24 are going with the > straight on perspective. > I still believe that the perspective view still holds pretty well at 24x24. With retouching. IIRC the outcry on this list was from people having installed the icons via package, not from seeing them in the mockup. ~m From dfong at redhat.com Fri Aug 11 16:00:02 2006 From: dfong at redhat.com (Diana Fong) Date: Fri, 11 Aug 2006 12:00:02 -0400 Subject: Preview of new scaled down icons (was Re: New Icon Set...[echo]...) In-Reply-To: <44DC9A9C.4090002@redhat.com> References: <44D95478.8050803@redhat.com> <44711.194.94.224.254.1155115479.squirrel@jose.freesurf.fr> <44D9F63B.9030602@redhat.com> <44D9F919.8030500@redhat.com> <44DA018E.9050102@redhat.com> <44DA02A6.9060702@redhat.com> <44DA0ECD.6050006@redhat.com> <44DB8427.8000707@redhat.com> <44DBD562.1020405@redhat.com> <44DBE117.1080705@redhat.com> <44DBE339.6080401@redhat.com> <44DC9434.50504@redhat.com> <44DC9A9C.4090002@redhat.com> Message-ID: <44DCA982.6020903@redhat.com> M?ir?n Duffy wrote: > Diana Fong wrote: >> The ones I had uploaded were...dialog-cancel/close/ok...of the >> "Action Icons" category. All Action Icons should be of a straight >> on perspective. > > Is this guideline anywhere on the page? Is this a Tango guideline? Can > we link to it or add a note about it? What other icon types need > straight-on for 24 x 24? It's not a Tango guideline...at least I don't remember reading it on their site. I did note it in my very first message in the "New Icon Set...[echo]..." email https://www.redhat.com/archives/fedora-art-list/2006-August/msg00010.html Sure, feel free to add a link/note about it. I did not have a hard rule for any of the other 24x24 icon types...Originally I had thought that the emotion icons would be straight on...but they're circular...so it's pretty much a circle regardless...I think what Luya has done is pretty good in terms of perspectives. Maybe the weather ones...I dunno...it might work to flatten the 24 but I can't really say till I've either made or see someone make a few...so far I only have pieces: sun, clouds, one rain drop, and a snow flake...still playing around with it. Lastly...emblems...was thinking about this recently...would like some feedback when the .tar goes out this week. Right now the emblems created are at an angle...but should not be difficult to convert if we find that it doesn't work. I will be posting them in a bit. Diana > >> This does not mean that all 24x24 are going with the straight on >> perspective. >> I still believe that the perspective view still holds pretty well at >> 24x24. > > With retouching. IIRC the outcry on this list was from people having > installed the icons via package, not from seeing them in the mockup. > > ~m > > _______________________________________________ > Fedora-art-list mailing list > Fedora-art-list at redhat.com > http://www.redhat.com/mailman/listinfo/fedora-art-list From stb52988 at gmail.com Fri Aug 11 16:08:03 2006 From: stb52988 at gmail.com (Steve Barnhart) Date: Fri, 11 Aug 2006 12:08:03 -0400 Subject: Fedora Artwork Message-ID: <15ce3ec0608110908u48e35dd4w143c7549d39a2067@mail.gmail.com> I personally do not prefer the "bubbly" theme introduced in recent versions of Fedora and am not immediately fond of the artwork path the Fedora team seems to be taking. To me it seems to be departing away from the regular/old redhat-artwork team which imo is a bad thing. I liked bluecurve when it first came out and many people did, but in any way it did create A LOT of attention onto Redhat. It was a nice and professional theme and still looks pretty good today except for the use of grey and "blah" buttons. The icon theme though is still nice and the artwork (GDm theme, splash screen etc.) shown in RHEL4 is more of the kind of stuff I would like to see instead of the "kiddish" kind of look Fedora seems to be taking on. I believe many want a professional looking distro and Redhat/Fedora was/is that and I would like if perhaps we could take some different directions in the artwork again, perhaps more in tune to what RHEL team does. I have looked at the new icon theme (Echo) and I think I like it and I even like the Bluecurve GDM theme shipped w/FC5 as well as the splash screen for GNOME. Its the bubbily/light blue theme and such that is in the new release that I do not like. Hopefully we can discuss this more. -- Steve From duffy at redhat.com Fri Aug 11 16:11:03 2006 From: duffy at redhat.com (=?ISO-8859-1?Q?M=E1ir=EDn_Duffy?=) Date: Fri, 11 Aug 2006 12:11:03 -0400 Subject: Preview of new scaled down icons (was Re: New Icon Set...[echo]...) In-Reply-To: <44DCA982.6020903@redhat.com> References: <44D95478.8050803@redhat.com> <44711.194.94.224.254.1155115479.squirrel@jose.freesurf.fr> <44D9F63B.9030602@redhat.com> <44D9F919.8030500@redhat.com> <44DA018E.9050102@redhat.com> <44DA02A6.9060702@redhat.com> <44DA0ECD.6050006@redhat.com> <44DB8427.8000707@redhat.com> <44DBD562.1020405@redhat.com> <44DBE117.1080705@redhat.com> <44DBE339.6080401@redhat.com> <44DC9434.50504@redhat.com> <44DC9A9C.4090002@redhat.com> <44DCA982.6020903@redhat.com> Message-ID: <44DCAC17.6000504@redhat.com> Diana Fong wrote: > It's not a Tango guideline...at least I don't remember reading it on > their site. I did note it in my very first message in the "New Icon > Set...[echo]..." email > https://www.redhat.com/archives/fedora-art-list/2006-August/msg00010.html > Sure, feel free to add a link/note about it. Okay, it's better to have a guideline like this in a more accessible spot rather than buried in a long email in the archives. Condensing those points and adding them to the wiki would be helpful. It does seem strange to me that that half the dialog icons are straight-on at 24x24 (dialog-cancel, dialog-close dialog-ok) and half are isometric at 24x24 (dialog-question, dialog-error, dialog-warnig)... because they're the same class of icons although they aren't next to each other in the wiki. Sure, some are action and some are status as classified in the wiki, but aren't they used in conjunction with each other? > Maybe the weather ones...I dunno...it might work to flatten the 24 but I > can't really say till I've either made or see someone make a few...so > far I only have pieces: sun, clouds, one rain drop, and a snow > flake...still playing around with it. If you're working on the weather icons you should mark them on the wiki so others don't try to. > Lastly...emblems...was thinking about this recently...would like some > feedback when the .tar goes out this week. Right now the emblems > created are at an angle...but should not be difficult to convert if we > find that it doesn't work. I will be posting them in a bit. I already did the work of converting the home emblem so no need to redo that. ~m From duffy at redhat.com Fri Aug 11 16:15:15 2006 From: duffy at redhat.com (=?ISO-8859-1?Q?M=E1ir=EDn_Duffy?=) Date: Fri, 11 Aug 2006 12:15:15 -0400 Subject: Fedora Artwork In-Reply-To: <15ce3ec0608110908u48e35dd4w143c7549d39a2067@mail.gmail.com> References: <15ce3ec0608110908u48e35dd4w143c7549d39a2067@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <44DCAD13.9030603@redhat.com> Steve Barnhart wrote: > I personally do not prefer the "bubbly" theme introduced in recent > versions of Fedora and am not immediately fond of the artwork path the > Fedora team seems to be taking. To me it seems to be departing away > from the regular/old redhat-artwork team which imo is a bad thing. I > liked bluecurve when it first came out and many people did, but in any > way it did create A LOT of attention onto Redhat. It was a nice and > professional theme and still looks pretty good today except for the > use of grey and "blah" buttons. How do you use Fedora? Do you use it in a professional context? Can you give some rationale here? > The icon theme though is still nice and the artwork (GDm theme, splash > screen etc.) shown in RHEL4 is more of the kind of stuff I would like > to see instead of the "kiddish" kind of look Fedora seems to be taking > on. How do you feel about this: https://www.redhat.com/archives/fedora-art-list/2006-August/msg00027.html > I believe many want a professional looking distro and > Redhat/Fedora was/is that What evidence do you have to support this claim? How do you use Fedora? and I would like if perhaps we could take > some different directions in the artwork again, perhaps more in tune > to what RHEL team does. I have looked at the new icon theme (Echo) and > I think I like it and I even like the Bluecurve GDM theme shipped > w/FC5 as well as the splash screen for GNOME. The GDM theme shipped with FC5 was not Bluecurve, neither was the splash screen. You can see screenshots of what shipped with FC5 here: http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Artwork/ThemingOverview > Its the bubbily/light > blue theme and such that is in the new release that I do not like. > Hopefully we can discuss this more. Sure. If you can give some rationale here and even better, give some suggestions/examples of what you'd like to see (besides the RHEL/Fedora 4 and lower examples), that would be very helpful. ~m From stb52988 at gmail.com Fri Aug 11 16:27:49 2006 From: stb52988 at gmail.com (Steve Barnhart) Date: Fri, 11 Aug 2006 12:27:49 -0400 Subject: Fedora Artwork In-Reply-To: <44DCAD13.9030603@redhat.com> References: <15ce3ec0608110908u48e35dd4w143c7549d39a2067@mail.gmail.com> <44DCAD13.9030603@redhat.com> Message-ID: <15ce3ec0608110927s318fcfadtf879c45349257551@mail.gmail.com> > How do you use Fedora? Do you use it in a professional context? Can you > give some rationale here? I'm simple an experienced desktop user who always admired to excellent graphics and professionalism of the redhat distributions (and now eyeing Novell/SuSE's too) > How do you feel about this: > https://www.redhat.com/archives/fedora-art-list/2006-August/msg00027.html its actually not bad...I'd MUCH prefer that as the default wallpaper over the light blueish look of the one shipped. > What evidence do you have to support this claim? How do you use Fedora? I've read other complaints about the bubbily theme but do not know specific ones at the moment. > The GDM theme shipped with FC5 was not Bluecurve, neither was the splash > screen. You can see screenshots of what shipped with FC5 here: > > http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Artwork/ThemingOverview Ya I know but there is a bluecurve fedora theme in the GDM setup which i MUCH preferred over the one that shipped by default. > > Its the bubbily/light > > blue theme and such that is in the new release that I do not like. > > Hopefully we can discuss this more. > > Sure. If you can give some rationale here and even better, give some > suggestions/examples of what you'd like to see (besides the RHEL/Fedora > 4 and lower examples), that would be very helpful. I guess I'd like to see Fedora shy away from the bubbles (I like the 'F' logo though w/out the bubbles) and light blues scattered throughout the distro (and grub themes) back to the darker blues that Fedora used to use. I really like the Gilouche theme (shown here: http://shots.osdir.com/slideshows/slideshow.php?release=637&slide=26&title=suse+linux+10.1+screenshots) shipped with SUSE, but I'm sure the Fedora team can come up with something just as nice. I guess its hard to clearly define what I like without showing stuff from RHEL 4 because frankly, the artwork was fantastic as shown here (except for the greys of the old bluecurve as stated before): http://shots.osdir.com/slideshows/slideshow.php?release=302&slide=34&title=red+hat+enterprise+linux+4+screenshots Thanks for listening. -- Steve From duffy at redhat.com Fri Aug 11 16:34:31 2006 From: duffy at redhat.com (=?ISO-8859-1?Q?M=E1ir=EDn_Duffy?=) Date: Fri, 11 Aug 2006 12:34:31 -0400 Subject: Fedora Artwork In-Reply-To: <15ce3ec0608110927s318fcfadtf879c45349257551@mail.gmail.com> References: <15ce3ec0608110908u48e35dd4w143c7549d39a2067@mail.gmail.com> <44DCAD13.9030603@redhat.com> <15ce3ec0608110927s318fcfadtf879c45349257551@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <44DCB197.5040900@redhat.com> Steve Barnhart wrote: >> How do you feel about this: >> https://www.redhat.com/archives/fedora-art-list/2006-August/msg00027.html > > its actually not bad...I'd MUCH prefer that as the default wallpaper > over the light blueish look of the one shipped. How about these two mockups: http://www.deviantart.com/deviation/36700219/ http://www.deviantart.com/deviation/36700985/ If you like the way these are looking I can work on them a bit more and at least make them available as GDM themes for Fedora if not the default. I have been thinking about making a whole themed set of the DNA stuff though. I don't know that anybody else is working on or thinking about the FC6 default theme. >> > Its the bubbily/light >> > blue theme and such that is in the new release that I do not like. >> > Hopefully we can discuss this more. >> >> Sure. If you can give some rationale here and even better, give some >> suggestions/examples of what you'd like to see (besides the RHEL/Fedora >> 4 and lower examples), that would be very helpful. > > I guess I'd like to see Fedora shy away from the bubbles (I like the > 'F' logo though w/out the bubbles) and light blues scattered > throughout the distro (and grub themes) back to the darker blues that > Fedora used to use. I really like the Gilouche theme (shown here: > http://shots.osdir.com/slideshows/slideshow.php?release=637&slide=26&title=suse+linux+10.1+screenshots) That is pretty nice. We could probably develop some artwork in that vein using Fyre. > I guess its hard to clearly define what I like > without showing stuff from RHEL 4 because frankly, the artwork was > fantastic as shown here (except for the greys of the old bluecurve as > stated before): > http://shots.osdir.com/slideshows/slideshow.php?release=302&slide=34&title=red+hat+enterprise+linux+4+screenshots See, to me, this looked great a couple of years ago or so, but it also looks very dated at this point. Bluecurve is a very old theme. We need to move on so we aren't stuck in the past. ~m From stb52988 at gmail.com Fri Aug 11 16:53:14 2006 From: stb52988 at gmail.com (Steve Barnhart) Date: Fri, 11 Aug 2006 12:53:14 -0400 Subject: Fedora Artwork In-Reply-To: <44DCB197.5040900@redhat.com> References: <15ce3ec0608110908u48e35dd4w143c7549d39a2067@mail.gmail.com> <44DCAD13.9030603@redhat.com> <15ce3ec0608110927s318fcfadtf879c45349257551@mail.gmail.com> <44DCB197.5040900@redhat.com> Message-ID: <15ce3ec0608110953l49934cafr373c7595a6c390c0@mail.gmail.com> > How about these two mockups: > > http://www.deviantart.com/deviation/36700219/ > http://www.deviantart.com/deviation/36700985/ The first one isnt that bad except I would rather the username "bubble" be flat like in the themes before it. Also may look better with the darker blue like in the dna background u showed me, but I'd have to seee it. I like it though for the most part. > That is pretty nice. We could probably develop some artwork in that vein > using Fyre. That would be very cool. > > I guess its hard to clearly define what I like > > without showing stuff from RHEL 4 because frankly, the artwork was > > fantastic as shown here (except for the greys of the old bluecurve as > > stated before): > > http://shots.osdir.com/slideshows/slideshow.php?release=302&slide=34&title=red+hat+enterprise+linux+4+screenshots > > See, to me, this looked great a couple of years ago or so, but it also > looks very dated at this point. Bluecurve is a very old theme. We need > to move on so we aren't stuck in the past. Of course, the bluecurve theme (besides the blue and the "progress bar", and icons which r they only things I especially liked) looks very outdated especially with the greys...I typically dont like any theme now that uses grey. Even Windows has gone away with that so I'm glad to see themes that get rid of it also. But I do still find Redhat's logos/branding besides the theme to still be visually appealing. -- Steve From mlanglie at redhat.com Sat Aug 12 00:17:13 2006 From: mlanglie at redhat.com (Mike Langlie) Date: Fri, 11 Aug 2006 17:17:13 -0700 Subject: Image Lodaing icon Message-ID: <44DD1E09.6040600@redhat.com> Here is an idea for the Image Loading icon. What do folks think of this metaphor? The two versions have a lighter and darker dotted line. :: Mike :: -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: image-loadingL2.png Type: image/png Size: 2951 bytes Desc: not available URL: -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: image-loadingL.png Type: image/png Size: 2952 bytes Desc: not available URL: From dfong at redhat.com Sat Aug 12 00:32:53 2006 From: dfong at redhat.com (Diana Fong) Date: Fri, 11 Aug 2006 20:32:53 -0400 Subject: Testing out the theme In-Reply-To: <44DBD786.2020704@fedoraproject.org> References: <44DBD786.2020704@fedoraproject.org> Message-ID: <44DD21B5.2050001@redhat.com> Rahul wrote: > Hi > > Users who want to take a look at this new Echo theme would want a > quick and easy way to install and check it out. > > Currently all I see is a list of SVG files in a wiki page. Can we put > up a tarball appropriately packaged or a RPM package that is updated > frequently perhaps? Hello again... I mentioned this over lunch today and J5 (John Palmieri) wrote a python script to pull all the files from the wiki. (attached). Yeay! The following are some technical details that he included if someone would like to take this on and modify it. Like last time, I've got two .tar...one is just the PNGs [1] and the other is PNG+SVG (44.1M) [2]. The naming of the files are a bit different this time as it is pulled directly from the wiki. Leon, if you could do what you did last time, that would be great! Thanks, Diana [1] http://people.redhat.com/dfong/icons/echo48_0.11.tar.bz2 [2] http://people.redhat.com/dfong/icons/echo_0.11.tar.bz2 J5 wrote: Attached is the python script used to pull them all from the wiki. I whipped it up pretty quickly and there are several areas where it can be improved if someone wants to work on it: * It uses a base directory of echo_art/ this should be able to be overridden by a command line switch * If the directory exists it should confirm with the user and then delete or move the old directory * Statistics could be added as well as a way to diff previous pulls to see what has changed * There is already a filter function that returns a new name and directory based on the icons name. Right now the script just checks for 'image-missing' and returns None indicating that icon should not be downloaded. This filter function can be expanded to filter icons into specific directories for easier packaging provided you have a consistent naming scheme on the wiki. * Inputs need to be filtered to make sure someone doesn't add input on the wiki that would cause the script to do bad thing on your machine. Right now it is not an issue but if the filter function gets more complex (such as using a part of a file name as the directory) you might want to scan those directory strings to make sure characters like ~ or .. don't get in. * Someone could add a specfile generator and auto packager so that new sets of icons can be tested easily. Hope this helps you guys out and I can't wait to see the new icons in action. -- John (J5) Palmieri -------------- next part -------------- An embedded and charset-unspecified text was scrubbed... Name: echo_pull.py URL: From duffy at redhat.com Sat Aug 12 04:07:42 2006 From: duffy at redhat.com (=?ISO-8859-1?Q?M=E1ir=EDn_Duffy?=) Date: Sat, 12 Aug 2006 00:07:42 -0400 Subject: Testing out the theme In-Reply-To: <44DD21B5.2050001@redhat.com> References: <44DBD786.2020704@fedoraproject.org> <44DD21B5.2050001@redhat.com> Message-ID: <44DD540E.5050603@redhat.com> Is there any place where we could get a svn or cvs repo? It would be nice to set this script up somewhere, have it pull in the latest images and check them into revision control, and have a nightly script package the latest versions. Would make it really easy for people to test the latest then. Added bonus of having version control for the images (since moinmoin doesn't do this) ~m From luya_tfz at thefinalzone.com Sat Aug 12 09:08:34 2006 From: luya_tfz at thefinalzone.com (Luya Tshimbalanga) Date: Sat, 12 Aug 2006 17:08:34 +0800 Subject: Fedora-art-list Digest, Vol 5, Issue 24 Message-ID: > Date: Fri, 11 Aug 2006 10:52:43 +0300 > From: Nicu Buculei > Subject: Re: Completed set of small emotes > To: "Discussions about the artwork included with Fedora, including > icons, themes, and wallpapers." > Message-ID: <44DC374B.60500 at nicubunu.ro> > Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed > > Luya Tshimbalanga wrote: > > I completed the set of small emotes. I am not sure if it is a good idea > > to put a GPL license. Anyway, take a look on > > http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Artwork/EchoDevelopment > > My two cents: > Can you make the outlines stronger? And use a gradient for outlines, > like in the other icons. > For angel and devil consider making the details more > evident/contrasting, I barely see the halo and the horns. > The same for the crying icon: one single tear is enough as a metaphor, > having so many they are small and invisible. So leave just one or two > big tears. > I understand blue is the defining color of the theme, but I feel a > classic yellow would be better for this group of icons. > > As for GPL, I do not think the license for the theme was decided, last > time we talked about it CC Attribution Share Alike was proposed, but > there were objections about it being compatible with GPL. > > > PS: some days ago I experimented a little myself with emotes, not liked > enough my work and seeing you already started on this did not bothered > to continue and trash-canned it: > http://fedora.nicubunu.ro/echo/face_smile_big.svg > > -- > nicu > Cool Fedora wallpapers: http://fedora.nicubunu.ro/wallpapers/ > Open Clip Art Library: http://www.openclipart.org > my Fedora stuff: http://fedora.nicubunu.ro > > I just completed the whole set of emotes. As suggested, I added a gradient on outlines and thicken them as well. Small size of emotes didn't need much change except angel and devil. It also appears that Diana Fong really appreciated them as she found them very expressive. Luya Tshimbalanga -- Fedora Project Contributor http://www.fedoraproject.org/wiki/LuyaTshimbalanga http://www.fedoranews.org From sdl.web at gmail.com Sat Aug 12 13:52:25 2006 From: sdl.web at gmail.com (Leon) Date: Sat, 12 Aug 2006 14:52:25 +0100 Subject: Add this list to gmane In-Reply-To: <44D97E3F.7010907@fedoraproject.org> (Rahul's message of "Wed, 09 Aug 2006 11:48:39 +0530") References: <44D97E3F.7010907@fedoraproject.org> Message-ID: On Wed, 09 Aug 2006 11:48:39 +0530, Rahul wrote: > Leon wrote: >> Hi there, >> >> I'd suggest we add this list to gmane?. What do you think? >> >> Regards, >> >> Footnotes: ? http://gmane.org/add.php > > Go ahead. You dont even need to ask. > > Rahul > I have requested fedora-art-list to be gmane.linux.redhat.fedora.artwork in gmane. To be complete, we need to import old emails into gmane. This is optional but it will be good for new subscribers to track the messages. This basically involves sending an email to larsi+gmane at gnus.org from the administrator of this list. Instructions here: http://gmane.org/import.php -- Leon From sundaram at fedoraproject.org Sat Aug 12 16:53:01 2006 From: sundaram at fedoraproject.org (Rahul) Date: Sat, 12 Aug 2006 22:23:01 +0530 Subject: Fedora Wallpapers Message-ID: <44DE076D.7080009@fedoraproject.org> Hi Came across http://www.fedoraforum.org/gallery/browseimages.php?do=member&imageuser=31485 Mola is up to something here ;-) Rahul From sundaram at fedoraproject.org Sat Aug 12 17:16:27 2006 From: sundaram at fedoraproject.org (Rahul) Date: Sat, 12 Aug 2006 22:46:27 +0530 Subject: Fedora Core 6 splash Message-ID: <44DE0CEB.1050508@fedoraproject.org> Hi Would anyone be interesting in doing a splash image for Fedora Core 6 release which we can use on fedoraproject.org on the release time? Rahul From iamseawolf at gmail.com Sat Aug 12 17:11:29 2006 From: iamseawolf at gmail.com (seawolf) Date: Sat, 12 Aug 2006 18:11:29 +0100 Subject: Image Lodaing icon In-Reply-To: <44DD1E09.6040600@redhat.com> References: <44DD1E09.6040600@redhat.com> Message-ID: <9c3bfa1d0608121011p6f098640x28f5f4c16fb9d211@mail.gmail.com> On 12/08/06, Mike Langlie wrote: > Here is an idea for the Image Loading icon. What do folks think of this > metaphor? The two versions have a lighter and darker dotted line. Personally, I prefer the darker one as it would be more apparent in a smaller icon. How about it pixelating slightly to add more effect to the larger ones, maybe stretching the gradient out a bit more? This reminds me of when JPEGs (i think) loaded and it was blocky before loading more detail after some time. The blue is clear and simple, though so it appeals to me. -- ..// seawolf //.. e-mail / msn / icq / yahoo iamseawolf (at) gmail (dot) com http://clik.to/seawolfsanctuary fedora core 5 : artwork GnuPG Available - ask me! From stickster at gmail.com Sat Aug 12 17:23:32 2006 From: stickster at gmail.com (Paul W. Frields) Date: Sat, 12 Aug 2006 13:23:32 -0400 Subject: Testing out the theme In-Reply-To: <44DD540E.5050603@redhat.com> References: <44DBD786.2020704@fedoraproject.org> <44DD21B5.2050001@redhat.com> <44DD540E.5050603@redhat.com> Message-ID: <1155403412.10509.24.camel@localhost.localdomain> On Sat, 2006-08-12 at 00:07 -0400, M?ir?n Duffy wrote: > Is there any place where we could get a svn or cvs repo? > > It would be nice to set this script up somewhere, have it pull in the > latest images and check them into revision control, and have a nightly > script package the latest versions. Would make it really easy for people > to test the latest then. Added bonus of having version control for the > images (since moinmoin doesn't do this) What about a space on 108, like "fedora-art.108.redhat.com"? -- Paul W. Frields, RHCE http://paul.frields.org/ gpg fingerprint: 3DA6 A0AC 6D58 FEC4 0233 5906 ACDB C937 BD11 3717 Fedora Project Board: http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Board Fedora Docs Project: http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/DocsProject -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: signature.asc Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 189 bytes Desc: This is a digitally signed message part URL: From stb52988 at gmail.com Sat Aug 12 17:33:15 2006 From: stb52988 at gmail.com (Steve Barnhart) Date: Sat, 12 Aug 2006 13:33:15 -0400 Subject: Fedora Wallpapers In-Reply-To: <44DE076D.7080009@fedoraproject.org> References: <44DE076D.7080009@fedoraproject.org> Message-ID: <15ce3ec0608121033j3eec8657v74e2d847207af584@mail.gmail.com> I like the blue one but too low of resolution for me On 8/12/06, Rahul wrote: > Hi > > > Came across > http://www.fedoraforum.org/gallery/browseimages.php?do=member&imageuser=31485 > > Mola is up to something here ;-) > > Rahul > > _______________________________________________ > Fedora-art-list mailing list > Fedora-art-list at redhat.com > http://www.redhat.com/mailman/listinfo/fedora-art-list > -- Steve From sdl.web at gmail.com Sat Aug 12 21:47:53 2006 From: sdl.web at gmail.com (Leon) Date: Sat, 12 Aug 2006 22:47:53 +0100 Subject: Testing out the theme References: <44DBD786.2020704@fedoraproject.org> <44DD21B5.2050001@redhat.com> Message-ID: On Fri, 11 Aug 2006 20:32:53 -0400, Diana Fong wrote: > Hello again... > > I mentioned this over lunch today and J5 (John Palmieri) wrote a > python script to pull all the files from the wiki. (attached). Yeay! > The following are some technical details that he included if someone > would like to take this on and modify it. Like last time, I've got > two .tar...one is just the PNGs [1] and the other is PNG+SVG (44.1M) > [2]. The naming of the files are a bit different this time as it is > pulled directly from the wiki. Leon, if you could do what you did last > time, that would be great! > > Thanks, > Diana > > [1] http://people.redhat.com/dfong/icons/echo48_0.11.tar.bz2 > [2] http://people.redhat.com/dfong/icons/echo_0.11.tar.bz2 > I have created a script to build echo icon theme from a dir populated by J5's script. And I found out some icons are different in .png and .svg. For an incomplete list: edit-copy format-indent-less format-indent-more format-justify-center format-justify-fill format-justify-left format-justify-right utilities-terminal font-x-generic image-x-generic text-x-generic-template text-x-generic x-office-document Another issue is: the svg icons do not have consistent aspect and dimension. For example: utilities-terminalL.svg is 443.79 x 166.59 as in inkscape. The script is attached. It will use echo_art under current dir as source icon dir and Echo as destination dir. The index.theme is from Tango Icon theme. Put it in Echo dir to make the theme usable. -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: echo_icon_theme.py Type: application/octet-stream Size: 3835 bytes Desc: echo_icon_theme.py URL: -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: index.theme Type: application/octet-stream Size: 6797 bytes Desc: index.theme URL: -------------- next part -------------- -- Leon From duffy at redhat.com Sun Aug 13 06:06:56 2006 From: duffy at redhat.com (=?ISO-8859-1?Q?M=E1ir=EDn_Duffy?=) Date: Sun, 13 Aug 2006 02:06:56 -0400 Subject: Fedora Core 6 splash In-Reply-To: <44DE0CEB.1050508@fedoraproject.org> References: <44DE0CEB.1050508@fedoraproject.org> Message-ID: <44DEC180.1050302@redhat.com> Hi Rahul, Rahul wrote: > Would anyone be interesting in doing a splash image for Fedora Core 6 > release which we can use on fedoraproject.org on the release time? How do you like this? (Of course the filler text would have to be modified. The SVG is available via the deviantart 'Download' link on the lefthand side so it's easy to change.) http://www.deviantart.com/deviation/37913696/ ~m From thomas.canniot at laposte.net Sun Aug 13 07:52:23 2006 From: thomas.canniot at laposte.net (Thomas Canniot) Date: Sun, 13 Aug 2006 09:52:23 +0200 Subject: Fedora Core 6 splash In-Reply-To: <44DEC180.1050302@redhat.com> References: <44DE0CEB.1050508@fedoraproject.org> <44DEC180.1050302@redhat.com> Message-ID: <1155455543.2795.4.camel@MrTomLinux.workstation> Le dimanche 13 ao?t 2006 ? 02:06 -0400, M?ir?n Duffy a ?crit : > Hi Rahul, > > Rahul wrote: > > Would anyone be interesting in doing a splash image for Fedora Core 6 > > release which we can use on fedoraproject.org on the release time? > > How do you like this? (Of course the filler text would have to be > modified. The SVG is available via the deviantart 'Download' link on the > lefthand side so it's easy to change.) > > http://www.deviantart.com/deviation/37913696/ > > ~m I love it !! I would even say : " wow !! " The DNA theme should be the default theme however. > > _______________________________________________ > Fedora-art-list mailing list > Fedora-art-list at redhat.com > http://www.redhat.com/mailman/listinfo/fedora-art-list -- Thomas Canniot http://www.fedoraproject.org/wiki/ThomasCanniot -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: signature.asc Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 189 bytes Desc: Ceci est une partie de message num?riquement sign?e URL: From nisses.mail at home.se Sun Aug 13 09:49:21 2006 From: nisses.mail at home.se (Andreas Nilsson) Date: Sun, 13 Aug 2006 11:49:21 +0200 Subject: Names for icons that are not on the Tango list... In-Reply-To: <44D8EC01.9040907@redhat.com> References: <44D8EC01.9040907@redhat.com> Message-ID: <44DEF5A1.1000803@home.se> Diana Fong wrote: > I created a couple of icons that were not on the Tango list...and so > made up my own names accordingly. Examples include: > drive-harddisk-usb/firewire, drive-removable-usb/firewire, > format-justify-last-left, format-justify-last-right...etc. Hopefully > they're ok. Hi Diana! This is not really my area of expertise, but I hope I can be to some help (those who are better than me on this stuff is free to shoot me where I am incorrect :). What are format-justify-last-right used for? Following the regular naming scheme I feel format-justify-left-last fits better, as a theme can then fall back on format-justify-left if it misses format-justify-left-last. (I guess that is how it should work, not sure if it currently does). I think I read somewhere that the name "firewire" is trademarked, so perhaps it's wiser to use the name ieee1394 (I think that is the correct name). > Is there a more comprehensive list somewhere that I haven't found or > could these extra names be submitted somewhere to Tango to help > maintain consistency. I saw this link with the "Icon Naming > Specifications" [1] which is not equal to the "Icon Metaphors" list [2]. The common metaphors list is a bit dated (and some of the names are wrong due to spec-changes), as no one has taken responsibility for that in a while. Anyone up for the job? Icon-naming-spec on fd.o is up to date though. > Lastly...I've made battery icons for PowerManager but the naming > scheme is nowhere to be found on Tango. I was pointed to [3] but the > names seems different to what might fit in the Tango naming scheme. You should probably use the names powermanger use, I think Richard used the gpm-prefix as the icons were pretty app-specific, and it would be a bit weird to have those in a spec. > Please advise. > > [1] > http://standards.freedesktop.org/icon-naming-spec/icon-naming-spec-latest.html > > [2] http://tango.freedesktop.org/Icon_Metaphors > [3] http://cvs.gnome.org/viewcvs/gnome-power-manager/data/icons/22x22/ - Andreas From duffy at redhat.com Sun Aug 13 11:24:39 2006 From: duffy at redhat.com (=?ISO-8859-1?Q?M=E1ir=EDn_Duffy?=) Date: Sun, 13 Aug 2006 07:24:39 -0400 Subject: DNA Theme - grub, rhgb, gdm Message-ID: <44DF0BF7.6030204@redhat.com> http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Artwork/ThemeSubmissions/DNATheme The GDM theme is an actual working theme; if you want a copy let me know. ~m From duffy at redhat.com Sun Aug 13 11:27:29 2006 From: duffy at redhat.com (=?ISO-8859-15?Q?M=E1ir=EDn_Duffy?=) Date: Sun, 13 Aug 2006 07:27:29 -0400 Subject: Fedora Core 6 splash In-Reply-To: <1155455543.2795.4.camel@MrTomLinux.workstation> References: <44DE0CEB.1050508@fedoraproject.org> <44DEC180.1050302@redhat.com> <1155455543.2795.4.camel@MrTomLinux.workstation> Message-ID: <44DF0CA1.6040300@redhat.com> Thomas Canniot wrote: > I love it !! > I would even say : " wow !! " sweet, i made a wallpaper of it if you're interested: http://www.deviantart.com/deviation/37918014/ ~m From stb52988 at gmail.com Sun Aug 13 15:54:50 2006 From: stb52988 at gmail.com (Steve Barnhart) Date: Sun, 13 Aug 2006 11:54:50 -0400 Subject: Fedora Core 6 splash In-Reply-To: <44DF0CA1.6040300@redhat.com> References: <44DE0CEB.1050508@fedoraproject.org> <44DEC180.1050302@redhat.com> <1155455543.2795.4.camel@MrTomLinux.workstation> <44DF0CA1.6040300@redhat.com> Message-ID: <15ce3ec0608130854n23df880dl92b2272ef4958d1a@mail.gmail.com> I like it also! On 8/13/06, M?ir?n Duffy wrote: > Thomas Canniot wrote: > > I love it !! > > I would even say : " wow !! " > > sweet, i made a wallpaper of it if you're interested: > > http://www.deviantart.com/deviation/37918014/ > > ~m > > _______________________________________________ > Fedora-art-list mailing list > Fedora-art-list at redhat.com > http://www.redhat.com/mailman/listinfo/fedora-art-list > -- Steve From stb52988 at gmail.com Sun Aug 13 15:57:52 2006 From: stb52988 at gmail.com (Steve Barnhart) Date: Sun, 13 Aug 2006 11:57:52 -0400 Subject: DNA Theme - grub, rhgb, gdm In-Reply-To: <44DF0BF7.6030204@redhat.com> References: <44DF0BF7.6030204@redhat.com> Message-ID: <15ce3ec0608130857o49e15294qfd18b09d873b4b3d@mail.gmail.com> I like the direction of that theme! I like the GDM theme also but prefer the "non-bling" one as u state and I like the "flat" login box like we have now instead of the "bubble" lol. On 8/13/06, M?ir?n Duffy wrote: > http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Artwork/ThemeSubmissions/DNATheme > > The GDM theme is an actual working theme; if you want a copy let me know. > > ~m > > _______________________________________________ > Fedora-art-list mailing list > Fedora-art-list at redhat.com > http://www.redhat.com/mailman/listinfo/fedora-art-list > -- Steve From sdl.web at gmail.com Sun Aug 13 16:22:41 2006 From: sdl.web at gmail.com (Leon) Date: Sun, 13 Aug 2006 17:22:41 +0100 Subject: Add this list to gmane In-Reply-To: (Leon's message of "Fri, 04 Aug 2006 19:00:35 +0100") References: Message-ID: fedora-art-list is now accessible in news.gmane.org with group name: gmane.linux.redhat.fedora.artwork Bye -- Leon From sdl.web at gmail.com Sun Aug 13 16:23:34 2006 From: sdl.web at gmail.com (Leon) Date: Sun, 13 Aug 2006 17:23:34 +0100 Subject: test, please ignore Message-ID: test -- Leon From kwade at redhat.com Sat Aug 12 17:34:07 2006 From: kwade at redhat.com (Karsten Wade) Date: Sat, 12 Aug 2006 10:34:07 -0700 Subject: Testing out the theme In-Reply-To: <1155403412.10509.24.camel@localhost.localdomain> References: <44DBD786.2020704@fedoraproject.org> <44DD21B5.2050001@redhat.com> <44DD540E.5050603@redhat.com> <1155403412.10509.24.camel@localhost.localdomain> Message-ID: <1155404047.2835.343.camel@erato.phig.org> On Sat, 2006-08-12 at 13:23 -0400, Paul W. Frields wrote: > On Sat, 2006-08-12 at 00:07 -0400, M?ir?n Duffy wrote: > > Is there any place where we could get a svn or cvs repo? > > > > It would be nice to set this script up somewhere, have it pull in the > > latest images and check them into revision control, and have a nightly > > script package the latest versions. Would make it really easy for people > > to test the latest then. Added bonus of having version control for the > > images (since moinmoin doesn't do this) > > What about a space on 108, like "fedora-art.108.redhat.com"? That supplies the storage and SCM, but not the script or build environment. We unfortunately do not have any shell accounts with cronjobs. However, the cron script could live on any accessible server and use the magic of Subversion from there. That would work just like M?ir?n suggests. That said, you could do the same thing with cvs.fedoraproject.org, in essence, right? CVS won't quite as nice for unattended check-ins, IME, but, there is a choice. :) - Karsten -- Karsten Wade, RHCE, 108 Editor ^ Fedora Documentation Project Sr. Developer Relations Mgr. | fedoraproject.org/wiki/DocsProject quaid.108.redhat.com | gpg key: AD0E0C41 ////////////////////////////////// \\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\ -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: signature.asc Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 189 bytes Desc: This is a digitally signed message part URL: From mola at c100c.com Sun Aug 13 20:33:31 2006 From: mola at c100c.com (Mola pahnadayan) Date: Mon, 14 Aug 2006 00:03:31 +0330 Subject: Splash image, jpg :) Message-ID: <1155501211.9221.3.camel@localhost.localdomain> -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: fedora_splash.jpg Type: image/jpeg Size: 16338 bytes Desc: not available URL: From thomas.canniot at laposte.net Sun Aug 13 22:26:32 2006 From: thomas.canniot at laposte.net (Thomas Canniot) Date: Mon, 14 Aug 2006 00:26:32 +0200 Subject: Fedora Core 6 splash In-Reply-To: <44DF0CA1.6040300@redhat.com> References: <44DE0CEB.1050508@fedoraproject.org> <44DEC180.1050302@redhat.com> <1155455543.2795.4.camel@MrTomLinux.workstation> <44DF0CA1.6040300@redhat.com> Message-ID: <1155507992.2784.5.camel@MrTomLinux.workstation> Le dimanche 13 ao?t 2006 ? 07:27 -0400, M?ir?n Duffy a ?crit : > Thomas Canniot wrote: > > I love it !! > > I would even say : " wow !! " > > sweet, i made a wallpaper of it if you're interested: > > http://www.deviantart.com/deviation/37918014/ > > ~m THE default wallpaper ? :) Would it be possible to have the banner in .xcf format with filters so we could translate the text and put it everywhere on the local web please? > > _______________________________________________ > Fedora-art-list mailing list > Fedora-art-list at redhat.com > http://www.redhat.com/mailman/listinfo/fedora-art-list -- Thomas Canniot http://www.fedoraproject.org/wiki/ThomasCanniot -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: signature.asc Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 189 bytes Desc: Ceci est une partie de message num?riquement sign?e URL: From n.losito at yahoo.it Sun Aug 13 23:03:15 2006 From: n.losito at yahoo.it (Nicola Losito) Date: Mon, 14 Aug 2006 01:03:15 +0200 Subject: DNA Theme - grub, rhgb, gdm In-Reply-To: <44DF0BF7.6030204@redhat.com> References: <44DF0BF7.6030204@redhat.com> Message-ID: <068F046D-6BF1-4EF0-9F9C-C0C02F04E913@yahoo.it> Il giorno 13/ago/06, alle ore 13:24, M?ir?n Duffy ha scritto: > http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Artwork/ThemeSubmissions/DNATheme I really like this "fedora DNA" thing too. I am interested in the GDM theme for download. i would love to have (i'll repeat myself one more time) a gdm theme with support to "faces" or user icons kudos for the good work till now Mairin ! -- Nicola .:kOoLiNuS:. Losito http://www.koolinus.net http://koolinus.wordpress.com -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From duffy at redhat.com Mon Aug 14 04:08:29 2006 From: duffy at redhat.com (=?ISO-8859-15?Q?M=E1ir=EDn_Duffy?=) Date: Mon, 14 Aug 2006 00:08:29 -0400 Subject: Fedora Core 6 splash In-Reply-To: <1155507992.2784.5.camel@MrTomLinux.workstation> References: <44DE0CEB.1050508@fedoraproject.org> <44DEC180.1050302@redhat.com> <1155455543.2795.4.camel@MrTomLinux.workstation> <44DF0CA1.6040300@redhat.com> <1155507992.2784.5.camel@MrTomLinux.workstation> Message-ID: <44DFF73D.6090900@redhat.com> Thomas Canniot wrote: > THE default wallpaper ? :) > > Would it be possible to have the banner in .xcf format with filters so > we could translate the text and put it everywhere on the local web > please? Well... 1) A decision hasn't been made about the default theme elements and I'm not sure when that call will be made (but it should be soon as the release date is getting closer and closer.) If enough people on this list say they like something, though, it will help; 2) The engineers prefer that the wallpapers/theme don't mention the release number. This is in case for the release afterwards, if there isn't artwork available, the default wallpaper isn't for the old release number. :) A wallpaper I did way back for FC3 [1] was rejected for this reason :-p The text translation issue is also another good reason to avoid release-specific artwork, although does 'Core n' get translated? I'm curious why you mentioned XCF as a translatable format? Do you have experience with this? The artwork is currently in SVG (there is a 'download' link in deviant art you can grab the SVG from - the link doesn't stick out very well :-p) so you might be able to get away with doing a sed replace. The text was not turned to paths. ~m [1] http://www.deviantart.com/deviation/11845570/ hehehehehehe From duffy at redhat.com Mon Aug 14 06:06:41 2006 From: duffy at redhat.com (=?ISO-8859-1?Q?M=E1ir=EDn_Duffy?=) Date: Mon, 14 Aug 2006 02:06:41 -0400 Subject: DNA Theme - grub, rhgb, gdm In-Reply-To: <068F046D-6BF1-4EF0-9F9C-C0C02F04E913@yahoo.it> References: <44DF0BF7.6030204@redhat.com> <068F046D-6BF1-4EF0-9F9C-C0C02F04E913@yahoo.it> Message-ID: <44E012F1.1050205@redhat.com> Hi Nicola, Nicola Losito wrote: > I really like this "fedora DNA" thing too. > I am interested in the GDM theme for download. Ok, cool. It's buggy (some of the pam error messages are mispositioned, but I have Xnest working on my system again so it will be easier to fix) but it's good for getting a feel for how it'd look on login and on widescreen. > i would love to have (i'll repeat myself one more time) a gdm theme with > support to "faces" or user icons Yeh... I have to learn how to implement those first, hehe. :) What face browser GDM theme do you think looks best? I could look at its markup and try to learn how to add the face browser. > kudos for the good work till now Mairin ! Tanks :-D ~m From sundaram at fedoraproject.org Mon Aug 14 07:12:43 2006 From: sundaram at fedoraproject.org (Rahul) Date: Mon, 14 Aug 2006 12:42:43 +0530 Subject: Fedora Core 6 splash In-Reply-To: <44DEC180.1050302@redhat.com> References: <44DE0CEB.1050508@fedoraproject.org> <44DEC180.1050302@redhat.com> Message-ID: <44E0226B.8010401@fedoraproject.org> M?ir?n Duffy wrote: > Hi Rahul, > > Rahul wrote: >> Would anyone be interesting in doing a splash image for Fedora Core 6 >> release which we can use on fedoraproject.org on the release time? > > How do you like this? (Of course the filler text would have to be > modified. The SVG is available via the deviantart 'Download' link on the > lefthand side so it's easy to change.) > > http://www.deviantart.com/deviation/37913696/ > Good work. This would work fine I believe. We will have a splash shown for a while during FC6 release time and after that in http://fedoraproject.org and possibly http://redhat.com too. Rahul From thomas.canniot at laposte.net Mon Aug 14 07:15:46 2006 From: thomas.canniot at laposte.net (Thomas Canniot) Date: Mon, 14 Aug 2006 09:15:46 +0200 Subject: Fedora Core 6 splash In-Reply-To: <44DFF73D.6090900@redhat.com> References: <44DE0CEB.1050508@fedoraproject.org> <44DEC180.1050302@redhat.com> <1155455543.2795.4.camel@MrTomLinux.workstation> <44DF0CA1.6040300@redhat.com> <1155507992.2784.5.camel@MrTomLinux.workstation> <44DFF73D.6090900@redhat.com> Message-ID: <1155539747.2782.7.camel@MrTomLinux.workstation> Le lundi 14 ao?t 2006 ? 00:08 -0400, M?ir?n Duffy a ?crit : > Thomas Canniot wrote: > > THE default wallpaper ? :) > > > > Would it be possible to have the banner in .xcf format with filters so > > we could translate the text and put it everywhere on the local web > > please? > > Well... > > 1) A decision hasn't been made about the default theme elements and I'm > not sure when that call will be made (but it should be soon as the > release date is getting closer and closer.) If enough people on this > list say they like something, though, it will help; Great. > > 2) The engineers prefer that the wallpapers/theme don't mention the > release number. This is in case for the release afterwards, if there > isn't artwork available, the default wallpaper isn't for the old release > number. :) A wallpaper I did way back for FC3 [1] was rejected for this > reason :-p The text translation issue is also another good reason to > avoid release-specific artwork, although does 'Core n' get translated? 'Core n' is not translated, but I think that now the absence of artwork for a release is no more a problem. As long as you had time to make a release-numbered wallpaper, why not using it ? It will preserve our stock of neutral wallpaper : http://www.isity.net/blog/?cat=7 http://pookstar.deviantart.com/gallery/?offset=0 and some other I don't have right away. > > I'm curious why you mentioned XCF as a translatable format? Do you have > experience with this? The artwork is currently in SVG (there is a > 'download' link in deviant art you can grab the SVG from - the link > doesn't stick out very well :-p) so you might be able to get away with > doing a sed replace. The text was not turned to paths. Sorry, I have completely forgot you made a svg. I am not used to it at all but will be a good reason to get starting. Thanks a lot, > > ~m > > > [1] http://www.deviantart.com/deviation/11845570/ hehehehehehe > > _______________________________________________ > Fedora-art-list mailing list > Fedora-art-list at redhat.com > http://www.redhat.com/mailman/listinfo/fedora-art-list -- Thomas Canniot http://www.fedoraproject.org/wiki/ThomasCanniot -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: signature.asc Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 189 bytes Desc: Ceci est une partie de message num?riquement sign?e URL: From sundaram at fedoraproject.org Mon Aug 14 07:52:35 2006 From: sundaram at fedoraproject.org (Rahul) Date: Mon, 14 Aug 2006 13:22:35 +0530 Subject: Fedora Core 6 splash In-Reply-To: <44DFF73D.6090900@redhat.com> References: <44DE0CEB.1050508@fedoraproject.org> <44DEC180.1050302@redhat.com> <1155455543.2795.4.camel@MrTomLinux.workstation> <44DF0CA1.6040300@redhat.com> <1155507992.2784.5.camel@MrTomLinux.workstation> <44DFF73D.6090900@redhat.com> Message-ID: <44E02BC3.1040003@fedoraproject.org> M?ir?n Duffy wrote: > Thomas Canniot wrote: >> THE default wallpaper ? :) >> >> Would it be possible to have the banner in .xcf format with filters so >> we could translate the text and put it everywhere on the local web >> please? > > Well... > > 1) A decision hasn't been made about the default theme elements and I'm > not sure when that call will be made (but it should be soon as the > release date is getting closer and closer.) If enough people on this > list say they like something, though, it will help; I would like us to make a decision and integrate all the artwork before the test3 release is done. There is a number of docs such as the draft desktop guide in progress at http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Docs/Drafts/DesktopUserGuide/ and screenshots would have been taken throughout the guide. Replacing this set at this last minute would be tedious for authors as well as translators. Anything that covers the whole range of theming elements and is complete is great. Maybe we should have a few different themes avaialble though replacing theming elements for things like RHGB is not very intuitive for end users. > > 2) The engineers prefer that the wallpapers/theme don't mention the > release number. This is in case for the release afterwards, if there > isn't artwork available, the default wallpaper isn't for the old release > number. :) A wallpaper I did way back for FC3 [1] was rejected for this > reason :-p The text translation issue is also another good reason to > avoid release-specific artwork, although does 'Core n' get translated? > Would be better not to have words within the wallpaper for this reason. It would be quite to odd to have a completely localized desktop with a English word standing out in the wallpaper. Rahul From thomas.canniot at laposte.net Mon Aug 14 08:24:37 2006 From: thomas.canniot at laposte.net (Thomas Canniot) Date: Mon, 14 Aug 2006 10:24:37 +0200 Subject: Fedora Core 6 splash In-Reply-To: <44E02BC3.1040003@fedoraproject.org> References: <44DE0CEB.1050508@fedoraproject.org> <44DEC180.1050302@redhat.com> <1155455543.2795.4.camel@MrTomLinux.workstation> <44DF0CA1.6040300@redhat.com> <1155507992.2784.5.camel@MrTomLinux.workstation> <44DFF73D.6090900@redhat.com> <44E02BC3.1040003@fedoraproject.org> Message-ID: <1155543877.2782.14.camel@MrTomLinux.workstation> Le lundi 14 ao?t 2006 ? 13:22 +0530, Rahul a ?crit : > M?ir?n Duffy wrote: > > Thomas Canniot wrote: > >> THE default wallpaper ? :) > >> > >> Would it be possible to have the banner in .xcf format with filters so > >> we could translate the text and put it everywhere on the local web > >> please? > > > > Well... > > > > 1) A decision hasn't been made about the default theme elements and I'm > > not sure when that call will be made (but it should be soon as the > > release date is getting closer and closer.) If enough people on this > > list say they like something, though, it will help; > > I would like us to make a decision and integrate all the artwork before > the test3 release is done. There is a number of docs such as the draft > desktop guide in progress at > http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Docs/Drafts/DesktopUserGuide/ and > screenshots would have been taken throughout the guide. Replacing this > set at this last minute would be tedious for authors as well as > translators. Anything that covers the whole range of theming elements > and is complete is great. Maybe we should have a few different themes > avaialble though replacing theming elements for things like RHGB is not > very intuitive for end users. > > > > > > 2) The engineers prefer that the wallpapers/theme don't mention the > > release number. This is in case for the release afterwards, if there > > isn't artwork available, the default wallpaper isn't for the old release > > number. :) A wallpaper I did way back for FC3 [1] was rejected for this > > reason :-p The text translation issue is also another good reason to > > avoid release-specific artwork, although does 'Core n' get translated? > > > > Would be better not to have words within the wallpaper for this reason. > It would be quite to odd to have a completely localized desktop with a > English word standing out in the wallpaper. As long as the text is limited to the name of the distro, there is no problem. > > Rahul > > _______________________________________________ > Fedora-art-list mailing list > Fedora-art-list at redhat.com > http://www.redhat.com/mailman/listinfo/fedora-art-list -- Thomas Canniot http://www.fedoraproject.org/wiki/ThomasCanniot -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: signature.asc Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 189 bytes Desc: Ceci est une partie de message num?riquement sign?e URL: From terraformers at gmail.com Mon Aug 14 10:39:02 2006 From: terraformers at gmail.com (Lars G) Date: Mon, 14 Aug 2006 12:39:02 +0200 Subject: Fedora Core 6 splash In-Reply-To: <44DFF73D.6090900@redhat.com> References: <44DE0CEB.1050508@fedoraproject.org> <44DEC180.1050302@redhat.com> <1155455543.2795.4.camel@MrTomLinux.workstation> <44DF0CA1.6040300@redhat.com> <1155507992.2784.5.camel@MrTomLinux.workstation> <44DFF73D.6090900@redhat.com> Message-ID: <1155551942.11923.4.camel@kinichahau.homebase> On Mon, 2006-08-14 at 00:08 -0400, M?ir?n Duffy wrote: ... > > Well... > > 1) A decision hasn't been made about the default theme elements and I'm > not sure when that call will be made (but it should be soon as the > release date is getting closer and closer.) If enough people on this > list say they like something, though, it will help; .. Hi I really love the new DNA look! So one vote from me for DNA. ;-) thanks -- Lars Mail terraformers at gmail.com Web http://researchlab.terraformers.de No Big Brother! http://kai.iks-jena.de/bigb From n.losito at yahoo.it Mon Aug 14 12:32:49 2006 From: n.losito at yahoo.it (Nicola Losito) Date: Mon, 14 Aug 2006 14:32:49 +0200 Subject: DNA Theme - grub, rhgb, gdm In-Reply-To: <44E012F1.1050205@redhat.com> References: <44DF0BF7.6030204@redhat.com> <068F046D-6BF1-4EF0-9F9C-C0C02F04E913@yahoo.it> <44E012F1.1050205@redhat.com> Message-ID: <7D93517B-D829-406E-BE4E-F8A49C2E9877@yahoo.it> Il giorno 14/ago/06, alle ore 08:06, M?ir?n Duffy ha scritto: > >> i would love to have (i'll repeat myself one more time) a gdm >> theme with support to "faces" or user icons > > Yeh... I have to learn how to implement those first, hehe. :) What > face browser GDM theme do you think looks best? I could look at its > markup and try to learn how to add the face browser. Well, looking quickly at art.gnome.org: - http://art.gnome.org/themes/gdm_greeter/1302 - http://art.gnome.org/themes/gdm_greeter/1282 - http://art.gnome.org/themes/gdm_greeter/741 (one that can easily be mocked up starting from a clean design) or also: - http://www.gnome-look.org/content/show.php?content=37395 - http://www.gnome-look.org/content/show.php?content=43012 - http://www.gnome-look.org/content/show.php?content=39695 - http://www.gnome-look.org/content/show.php?content=39873 I know it's not too much appealing but i think that there are good ideas in those above to develop more. As a side note, this one would be a nice "inclusion" to available GDM themes at install time (maybe adding an F somewhere): - http://art.gnome.org/themes/gdm_greeter/1212 C ya! -- Nicola .:kOoLiNuS:. Losito http://www.koolinus.net http://koolinus.wordpress.com -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From mola at c100c.com Sun Aug 13 20:24:48 2006 From: mola at c100c.com (Mola pahnadayan) Date: Sun, 13 Aug 2006 23:54:48 +0330 Subject: Gnome splash Image Message-ID: <1155500688.9221.1.camel@localhost.localdomain> -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: fedora_splash.png Type: image/png Size: 105834 bytes Desc: not available URL: From nicu_fedora at nicubunu.ro Mon Aug 14 14:49:29 2006 From: nicu_fedora at nicubunu.ro (Nicu Buculei) Date: Mon, 14 Aug 2006 17:49:29 +0300 Subject: Gnome splash Image In-Reply-To: <1155500688.9221.1.camel@localhost.localdomain> References: <1155500688.9221.1.camel@localhost.localdomain> Message-ID: <44E08D79.4090102@nicubunu.ro> Mola pahnadayan wrote: > I think the GNOME splash screen was supposed to be dropped, as it is not useful enough (is not displayed for the entire start stage, the progress reported by it is not accurate, etc.) and not really needed as GNOME is supposed to start faster. Otherwise, how about a splash using the DNA theme from M?ir?n, for consistency? -- nicu Cool Fedora wallpapers: http://fedora.nicubunu.ro/wallpapers/ Open Clip Art Library: http://www.openclipart.org my Fedora stuff: http://fedora.nicubunu.ro From dfong at redhat.com Mon Aug 14 14:59:14 2006 From: dfong at redhat.com (Diana Fong) Date: Mon, 14 Aug 2006 10:59:14 -0400 Subject: Testing out the theme In-Reply-To: References: <44DBD786.2020704@fedoraproject.org> <44DD21B5.2050001@redhat.com> Message-ID: <44E08FC2.70403@redhat.com> Hi Leon... I'm currently using Illustrator to create the icons and when I save as .svg, some characteristics don't seem to carry over when opened in Inkscape. Mostly it's the blending options that do not translate well. Example: I've found with the icons that have "paper file" images in them is that one of the layer did not adopt the "Multiply" Blending option I gave it and so instead of letting the image behind that layer show through, the gradient is to a solid white. Inkscape, on the other hand has the ability to gradient to transparency and so by setting the white to transparent (and tweaking the middle grays) it will look more like the .png. I'll fix the Utillities-terminalL.svg icon. Diana Leon wrote: > I have created a script to build echo icon theme from a dir populated > by J5's script. And I found out some icons are different in .png and > .svg. For an incomplete list: > > edit-copy > format-indent-less > format-indent-more > format-justify-center > format-justify-fill > format-justify-left > format-justify-right > utilities-terminal > font-x-generic > image-x-generic > text-x-generic-template > text-x-generic > x-office-document > > Another issue is: the svg icons do not have consistent aspect and > dimension. For example: utilities-terminalL.svg is 443.79 x 166.59 as > in inkscape. > > The script is attached. It will use echo_art under current dir as > source icon dir and Echo as destination dir. The index.theme is from > Tango Icon theme. Put it in Echo dir to make the theme usable. From stb52988 at gmail.com Mon Aug 14 15:21:29 2006 From: stb52988 at gmail.com (Steve Barnhart) Date: Mon, 14 Aug 2006 11:21:29 -0400 Subject: Gnome splash Image In-Reply-To: <44E08D79.4090102@nicubunu.ro> References: <1155500688.9221.1.camel@localhost.localdomain> <44E08D79.4090102@nicubunu.ro> Message-ID: <15ce3ec0608140821n15a73f46uafe3e35251a07437@mail.gmail.com> I agree with a little something different for the splash screen but I strongly prefer to keep the image. Its pretty ha On 8/14/06, Nicu Buculei wrote: > Mola pahnadayan wrote: > > > > I think the GNOME splash screen was supposed to be dropped, as it is not > useful enough (is not displayed for the entire start stage, the progress > reported by it is not accurate, etc.) and not really needed as GNOME is > supposed to start faster. > > Otherwise, how about a splash using the DNA theme from M?ir?n, for > consistency? > > -- > nicu > Cool Fedora wallpapers: http://fedora.nicubunu.ro/wallpapers/ > Open Clip Art Library: http://www.openclipart.org > my Fedora stuff: http://fedora.nicubunu.ro > > _______________________________________________ > Fedora-art-list mailing list > Fedora-art-list at redhat.com > http://www.redhat.com/mailman/listinfo/fedora-art-list > -- Steve From dfong at redhat.com Mon Aug 14 15:26:18 2006 From: dfong at redhat.com (Diana Fong) Date: Mon, 14 Aug 2006 11:26:18 -0400 Subject: Names for icons that are not on the Tango list... In-Reply-To: <44DEF5A1.1000803@home.se> References: <44D8EC01.9040907@redhat.com> <44DEF5A1.1000803@home.se> Message-ID: <44E0961A.2070609@redhat.com> Andreas Nilsson wrote: > What are format-justify-last-right used for? Following the regular > naming scheme I feel format-justify-left-last fits better, as a theme > can then fall back on format-justify-left if it misses > format-justify-left-last. (I guess that is how it should work, not > sure if it currently does). Hi Andreas, Ah thanks! I wasn't quite sure. The format-justify-last-right...is basically when your text is justified with the last line aligned right. To me, it's a bit different than justify-fill...which means that the whole paragraph is justified even if the last line only has three words...looks a bit goofy when three words take up the whole width of a page. =) Just thought I'd include it if a text editor might need it. But yes, your suggested names make much more sense. > I think I read somewhere that the name "firewire" is trademarked, so > perhaps it's wiser to use the name ieee1394 (I think that is the > correct name). Ok...Is USB ok? > The common metaphors list is a bit dated (and some of the names are > wrong due to spec-changes), as no one has taken responsibility for > that in a while. Anyone up for the job? > Icon-naming-spec on fd.o is up to date though. Ok, will use the fd.o list for now. For additional icons, should the names be submitted to the XDG mailing list or tango-artists list? >> Lastly...I've made battery icons for PowerManager but the naming >> scheme is nowhere to be found on Tango. I was pointed to [3] but the >> names seems different to what might fit in the Tango naming scheme. > You should probably use the names powermanger use, I think Richard > used the gpm-prefix as the icons were pretty app-specific, and it > would be a bit weird to have those in a spec. Yup...That looked like the way to go. Thanks, Diana From dfong at redhat.com Mon Aug 14 22:23:32 2006 From: dfong at redhat.com (Diana Fong) Date: Mon, 14 Aug 2006 18:23:32 -0400 Subject: Fedora-art-list Digest, Vol 5, Issue 24 In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <44E0F7E4.1010303@redhat.com> Luya Tshimbalanga wrote: >> From: Nicu Buculei >> >> Luya Tshimbalanga wrote: >> >>> I completed the set of small emotes. I am not sure if it is a good idea >>> to put a GPL license. Anyway, take a look on >>> http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Artwork/EchoDevelopment >>> >> My two cents: >> Can you make the outlines stronger? And use a gradient for outlines, >> like in the other icons. >> For angel and devil consider making the details more >> evident/contrasting, I barely see the halo and the horns. >> The same for the crying icon: one single tear is enough as a metaphor, >> having so many they are small and invisible. So leave just one or two >> big tears. >> I understand blue is the defining color of the theme, but I feel a >> classic yellow would be better for this group of icons. >> >> > I just completed the whole set of emotes. As suggested, I added a > gradient on outlines and thicken them as well. Small size of emotes > didn't need much change except angel and devil. It also appears that > Diana Fong really appreciated them as she found them very expressive. Luya... Yup, I think your modifications of these icons have made them better each time I see your updates. I'd like to work with you to tweak it a bit to fit in with the set's color and whatnot. I was thinking something like the attached EmoteB.png (with a darker blue face and a dark blue mouth instead of the harsh black). I've also quickly modified the color for a "classic yellow" one as Nicu suggested above. No strong preference...though if we do go with a yellow...I'd like to see a darker yellow -> yellow orange coloring. The two devil icons still looks a bit odd to me, I think it's the horns, try making them a dark red? Also, what do you think about getting rid of the white areas of the eyes for the smaller 16x16 size? I think by just using the darker part would make them more clear. Diana ps. temporarily removed the nose cuz it doesn't show up on the smaller sizes...so thought i'd try it without the nose...hehe...what do you think? -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: emoteB.png Type: image/png Size: 4630 bytes Desc: not available URL: -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: emoteY.png Type: image/png Size: 4690 bytes Desc: not available URL: From sdl.web at gmail.com Mon Aug 14 23:27:31 2006 From: sdl.web at gmail.com (Leon) Date: Tue, 15 Aug 2006 00:27:31 +0100 Subject: Testing out the theme References: <44DBD786.2020704@fedoraproject.org> <44DD21B5.2050001@redhat.com> <44E08FC2.70403@redhat.com> Message-ID: On Mon, 14 Aug 2006 10:59:14 -0400, Diana Fong wrote: > Hi Leon... > > I'm currently using Illustrator to create the icons and when I save as > .svg, some characteristics don't seem to carry over when opened in > Inkscape. Mostly it's the blending options that do not translate > well. Example: I've found with the icons that have "paper file" > images in them is that one of the layer did not adopt the "Multiply" > Blending option I gave it and so instead of letting the image behind > that layer show through, the gradient is to a solid white. Inkscape, > on the other hand has the ability to gradient to transparency and so > by setting the white to transparent (and tweaking the middle grays) it > will look more like the .png. > > I'll fix the Utillities-terminalL.svg icon. > > Diana > I see. Does Illustrator supports exporting to plain svg? It's more portable. -- Leon From duffy at redhat.com Tue Aug 15 02:20:04 2006 From: duffy at redhat.com (=?ISO-8859-1?Q?M=E1ir=EDn_Duffy?=) Date: Mon, 14 Aug 2006 22:20:04 -0400 Subject: Fedora-art-list Digest, Vol 5, Issue 24 In-Reply-To: <44E0F7E4.1010303@redhat.com> References: <44E0F7E4.1010303@redhat.com> Message-ID: <44E12F54.6030306@redhat.com> Diana Fong wrote: > Yup, I think your modifications of these icons have made them better > each time I see your updates. I'd like to work with you to tweak it a > bit to fit in with the set's color and whatnot. I was thinking Shouldn't the light source be coming from the left, not the right? ~m From duffy at redhat.com Tue Aug 15 03:53:48 2006 From: duffy at redhat.com (=?ISO-8859-1?Q?M=E1ir=EDn_Duffy?=) Date: Mon, 14 Aug 2006 23:53:48 -0400 Subject: Awesome Fedora Wallpaper Message-ID: <44E1454C.3090107@redhat.com> http://www.deviantart.com/deviation/23479034/ I don't know what it is about this - but I just love this - I'm hoping Pandul will update it with the latest logo! :) Had to share! ~m From nicu_fedora at nicubunu.ro Tue Aug 15 05:39:13 2006 From: nicu_fedora at nicubunu.ro (Nicu Buculei) Date: Tue, 15 Aug 2006 08:39:13 +0300 Subject: Fedora-art-list Digest, Vol 5, Issue 24 In-Reply-To: <44E0F7E4.1010303@redhat.com> References: <44E0F7E4.1010303@redhat.com> Message-ID: <44E15E01.1070405@nicubunu.ro> Diana Fong wrote: > > Yup, I think your modifications of these icons have made them better > each time I see your updates. I'd like to work with you to tweak it a > bit to fit in with the set's color and whatnot. I was thinking > something like the attached EmoteB.png (with a darker blue face and a > dark blue mouth instead of the harsh black). I've also quickly modified > the color for a "classic yellow" one as Nicu suggested above. No strong > preference...though if we do go with a yellow...I'd like to see a darker > yellow -> yellow orange coloring. So far the dominant colors in Echo are gray and blue, giving a somewhat cold look to the theme. IMO the emotes are about human feelings so I find more appropriate some warmer colors so the human seeing the emote would identify better with the emote. Probably yellow orange would be fine, but a little more orange than your emoteY.png. > Also, what do you think about getting rid of the white areas of the eyes > for the smaller 16x16 size? I think by just using the darker part would > make them more clear. Definitely, no white area for 16x16 and make the black area larger (make the whole white area black) > Diana > ps. temporarily removed the nose cuz it doesn't show up on the smaller > sizes...so thought i'd try it without the nose...hehe...what do you think? Right, the nose is an unneeded detail (it does not contribute in any way to the specific emotion). Even at 48x48 was barely noticeable, so better without it. -- nicu Cool Fedora wallpapers: http://fedora.nicubunu.ro/wallpapers/ Open Clip Art Library: http://www.openclipart.org my Fedora stuff: http://fedora.nicubunu.ro From luya_tfz at thefinalzone.com Tue Aug 15 06:04:57 2006 From: luya_tfz at thefinalzone.com (Luya Tshimbalanga) Date: Tue, 15 Aug 2006 14:04:57 +0800 Subject: Fedora-art-list Digest, Vol 5, Issue 34 Message-ID: > Diana Fong wrote: > > > > Yup, I think your modifications of these icons have made them better > > each time I see your updates. I'd like to work with you to tweak it a > > bit to fit in with the set's color and whatnot. I was thinking > > something like the attached EmoteB.png (with a darker blue face and a > > dark blue mouth instead of the harsh black). I've also quickly modified > > the color for a "classic yellow" one as Nicu suggested above. No strong > > preference...though if we do go with a yellow...I'd like to see a darker > > yellow -> yellow orange coloring. > > So far the dominant colors in Echo are gray and blue, giving a somewhat > cold look to the theme. > IMO the emotes are about human feelings so I find more appropriate some > warmer colors so the human seeing the emote would identify better with > the emote. Probably yellow orange would be fine, but a little more > orange than your emoteY.png. > How about making a seperate different color of these emotes set? > > Also, what do you think about getting rid of the white areas of the eyes > > for the smaller 16x16 size? I think by just using the darker part would > > make them more clear. > > Definitely, no white area for 16x16 and make the black area larger (make > the whole white area black) Agreed. Because of the gradient, adding another white areas makes the eye blurry. > > Diana > > ps. temporarily removed the nose cuz it doesn't show up on the smaller > > sizes...so thought i'd try it without the nose...hehe...what do you think? > > Right, the nose is an unneeded detail (it does not contribute in any way > to the specific emotion). Even at 48x48 was barely noticeable, so better > without it. Nose was superficial so it can be removed. Luya Tshimbalanga -- Fedora Project Contributor http://www.fedoraproject.org/wiki/LuyaTshimbalanga http://www.fedoranews.org From luya_tfz at thefinalzone.com Tue Aug 15 06:06:24 2006 From: luya_tfz at thefinalzone.com (Luya Tshimbalanga) Date: Tue, 15 Aug 2006 14:06:24 +0800 Subject: Fedora-art-list Digest, Vol 5, Issue 34 Message-ID: > Diana Fong wrote: > > > > Yup, I think your modifications of these icons have made them better > > each time I see your updates. I'd like to work with you to tweak it a > > bit to fit in with the set's color and whatnot. I was thinking > > something like the attached EmoteB.png (with a darker blue face and a > > dark blue mouth instead of the harsh black). I've also quickly modified > > the color for a "classic yellow" one as Nicu suggested above. No strong > > preference...though if we do go with a yellow...I'd like to see a darker > > yellow -> yellow orange coloring. > > So far the dominant colors in Echo are gray and blue, giving a somewhat > cold look to the theme. > IMO the emotes are about human feelings so I find more appropriate some > warmer colors so the human seeing the emote would identify better with > the emote. Probably yellow orange would be fine, but a little more > orange than your emoteY.png. > How about making a seperate different color of these emotes set? > > Also, what do you think about getting rid of the white areas of the eyes > > for the smaller 16x16 size? I think by just using the darker part would > > make them more clear. > > Definitely, no white area for 16x16 and make the black area larger (make > the whole white area black) Agreed. Because of the gradient, adding another white areas makes the eye blurry. > > Diana > > ps. temporarily removed the nose cuz it doesn't show up on the smaller > > sizes...so thought i'd try it without the nose...hehe...what do you think? > > Right, the nose is an unneeded detail (it does not contribute in any way > to the specific emotion). Even at 48x48 was barely noticeable, so better > without it. Nose was superficial so it can be removed. Luya Tshimbalanga -- Fedora Project Contributor http://www.fedoraproject.org/wiki/LuyaTshimbalanga http://www.fedoranews.org From luya_tfz at thefinalzone.com Tue Aug 15 06:08:47 2006 From: luya_tfz at thefinalzone.com (Luya Tshimbalanga) Date: Tue, 15 Aug 2006 14:08:47 +0800 Subject: Fedora-art-list Digest, Vol 5, Issue 34 Message-ID: A message that you sent contained one or more recipient addresses that were incorrectly constructed: "Discussions about the artwork included with Fedora, including icons, themes, and wallpapers." : "@" or "." expected after "fedora-art-list" This address has been ignored. There were no other addresses in your message, and so no attempt at delivery was possible. ------ This is a copy of your message, including all the headers. ------ From: "Luya Tshimbalanga" To: "Discussions about the artwork included with Fedora, including icons, themes, and wallpapers." Reply-To: luya at fedoraproject.org Subject: Re: Fedora-art-list Digest, Vol 5, Issue 24 X-Mailer: NeoMail 1.27 X-IPAddress: 67.164.4.56 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Message-Id: Date: Tue, 15 Aug 2006 13:55:23 +0800 > Diana Fong wrote: > > > > Yup, I think your modifications of these icons have made them better > > each time I see your updates. I'd like to work with you to tweak it a > > bit to fit in with the set's color and whatnot. I was thinking > > something like the attached EmoteB.png (with a darker blue face and a > > dark blue mouth instead of the harsh black). I've also quickly modified > > the color for a "classic yellow" one as Nicu suggested above. No strong > > preference...though if we do go with a yellow...I'd like to see a darker > > yellow -> yellow orange coloring. > > So far the dominant colors in Echo are gray and blue, giving a somewhat > cold look to the theme. > IMO the emotes are about human feelings so I find more appropriate some > warmer colors so the human seeing the emote would identify better with > the emote. Probably yellow orange would be fine, but a little more > orange than your emoteY.png. > How about getting a different color for each set? Is it possible? > > Also, what do you think about getting rid of the white areas of the eyes > > for the smaller 16x16 size? I think by just using the darker part would > > make them more clear. > > Definitely, no white area for 16x16 and make the black area larger (make > the whole white area black) Agreed except for the surprised emote. If that still looks blurry, I don't mind to be removed. > > Diana > > ps. temporarily removed the nose cuz it doesn't show up on the smaller > > sizes...so thought i'd try it without the nose...hehe...what do you think? > > Right, the nose is an unneeded detail (it does not contribute in any way > to the specific emotion). Even at 48x48 was barely noticeable, so better > without it. Nose was superficial so it can be removed. Luya Tshimbalanga -- Fedora Project Contributor http://www.fedoraproject.org/wiki/LuyaTshimbalanga http://www.fedoranews.org > Send Fedora-art-list mailing list submissions to > fedora-art-list at redhat.com > > To subscribe or unsubscribe via the World Wide Web, visit > http://www.redhat.com/mailman/listinfo/fedora-art-list > or, via email, send a message with subject or body 'help' to > fedora-art-list-request at redhat.com > > You can reach the person managing the list at > fedora-art-list-owner at redhat.com > > When replying, please edit your Subject line so it is more specific > than "Re: Contents of Fedora-art-list digest..." > > > Today's Topics: > > 1. Re: Fedora-art-list Digest, Vol 5, Issue 24 (Diana Fong) > 2. Re: Testing out the theme (Leon) > 3. Re: Fedora-art-list Digest, Vol 5, Issue 24 (M?ir?n Duffy) > 4. Awesome Fedora Wallpaper (M?ir?n Duffy) > 5. Re: Fedora-art-list Digest, Vol 5, Issue 24 (Nicu Buculei) > > > ---------------------------------------------------------------------- > > Message: 1 > Date: Mon, 14 Aug 2006 18:23:32 -0400 > From: Diana Fong > Subject: Re: Fedora-art-list Digest, Vol 5, Issue 24 > To: luya at fedoraproject.org, "Discussions about the artwork included > with Fedora, including icons, themes, and wallpapers." > > Message-ID: <44E0F7E4.1010303 at redhat.com> > Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" > > Luya Tshimbalanga wrote: > >> From: Nicu Buculei > >> > >> Luya Tshimbalanga wrote: > >> > >>> I completed the set of small emotes. I am not sure if it is a good idea > >>> to put a GPL license. Anyway, take a look on > >>> http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Artwork/EchoDevelopment > >>> > >> My two cents: > >> Can you make the outlines stronger? And use a gradient for outlines, > >> like in the other icons. > >> For angel and devil consider making the details more > >> evident/contrasting, I barely see the halo and the horns. > >> The same for the crying icon: one single tear is enough as a metaphor, > >> having so many they are small and invisible. So leave just one or two > >> big tears. > >> I understand blue is the defining color of the theme, but I feel a > >> classic yellow would be better for this group of icons. > >> > >> > > I just completed the whole set of emotes. As suggested, I added a > > gradient on outlines and thicken them as well. Small size of emotes > > didn't need much change except angel and devil. It also appears that > > Diana Fong really appreciated them as she found them very expressive. > > Luya... > > Yup, I think your modifications of these icons have made them better > each time I see your updates. I'd like to work with you to tweak it a > bit to fit in with the set's color and whatnot. I was thinking > something like the attached EmoteB.png (with a darker blue face and a > dark blue mouth instead of the harsh black). I've also quickly modified > the color for a "classic yellow" one as Nicu suggested above. No strong > preference...though if we do go with a yellow...I'd like to see a darker > yellow -> yellow orange coloring. > > The two devil icons still looks a bit odd to me, I think it's the horns, > try making them a dark red? > Also, what do you think about getting rid of the white areas of the eyes > for the smaller 16x16 size? I think by just using the darker part would > make them more clear. > > Diana > ps. temporarily removed the nose cuz it doesn't show up on the smaller > sizes...so thought i'd try it without the nose...hehe...what do you think? > -------------- next part -------------- > A non-text attachment was scrubbed... > Name: emoteB.png > Type: image/png > Size: 4630 bytes > Desc: not available > Url : https://www.redhat.com/archives/fedora-art-list/attachments/20060814/003bea02/emoteB.png > -------------- next part -------------- > A non-text attachment was scrubbed... > Name: emoteY.png > Type: image/png > Size: 4690 bytes > Desc: not available > Url : https://www.redhat.com/archives/fedora-art-list/attachments/20060814/003bea02/emoteY.png > > ------------------------------ > > Message: 2 > Date: Tue, 15 Aug 2006 00:27:31 +0100 > From: Leon > Subject: Re: Testing out the theme > To: fedora-art-list at redhat.com > Message-ID: > Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii > > On Mon, 14 Aug 2006 10:59:14 -0400, Diana Fong wrote: > > > Hi Leon... > > > > I'm currently using Illustrator to create the icons and when I save as > > .svg, some characteristics don't seem to carry over when opened in > > Inkscape. Mostly it's the blending options that do not translate > > well. Example: I've found with the icons that have "paper file" > > images in them is that one of the layer did not adopt the "Multiply" > > Blending option I gave it and so instead of letting the image behind > > that layer show through, the gradient is to a solid white. Inkscape, > > on the other hand has the ability to gradient to transparency and so > > by setting the white to transparent (and tweaking the middle grays) it > > will look more like the .png. > > > > I'll fix the Utillities-terminalL.svg icon. > > > > Diana > > > > I see. Does Illustrator supports exporting to plain svg? It's more > portable. > > -- > Leon > > > > ------------------------------ > > Message: 3 > Date: Mon, 14 Aug 2006 22:20:04 -0400 > From: M?ir?n Duffy > Subject: Re: Fedora-art-list Digest, Vol 5, Issue 24 > To: "Discussions about the artwork included with Fedora, including > icons, themes, and wallpapers." > Message-ID: <44E12F54.6030306 at redhat.com> > Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed > > Diana Fong wrote: > > Yup, I think your modifications of these icons have made them better > > each time I see your updates. I'd like to work with you to tweak it a > > bit to fit in with the set's color and whatnot. I was thinking > > Shouldn't the light source be coming from the left, not the right? > > ~m > > > > ------------------------------ > > Message: 4 > Date: Mon, 14 Aug 2006 23:53:48 -0400 > From: M?ir?n Duffy > Subject: Awesome Fedora Wallpaper > To: fedora-art-list at redhat.com > Message-ID: <44E1454C.3090107 at redhat.com> > Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed > > http://www.deviantart.com/deviation/23479034/ > > I don't know what it is about this - but I just love this - I'm hoping > Pandul will update it with the latest logo! :) > > Had to share! > > ~m > > > > ------------------------------ > > Message: 5 > Date: Tue, 15 Aug 2006 08:39:13 +0300 > From: Nicu Buculei > Subject: Re: Fedora-art-list Digest, Vol 5, Issue 24 > To: "Discussions about the artwork included with Fedora, including > icons, themes, and wallpapers." > Message-ID: <44E15E01.1070405 at nicubunu.ro> > Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed > > Diana Fong wrote: > > > > Yup, I think your modifications of these icons have made them better > > each time I see your updates. I'd like to work with you to tweak it a > > bit to fit in with the set's color and whatnot. I was thinking > > something like the attached EmoteB.png (with a darker blue face and a > > dark blue mouth instead of the harsh black). I've also quickly modified > > the color for a "classic yellow" one as Nicu suggested above. No strong > > preference...though if we do go with a yellow...I'd like to see a darker > > yellow -> yellow orange coloring. > > So far the dominant colors in Echo are gray and blue, giving a somewhat > cold look to the theme. > IMO the emotes are about human feelings so I find more appropriate some > warmer colors so the human seeing the emote would identify better with > the emote. Probably yellow orange would be fine, but a little more > orange than your emoteY.png. > > > Also, what do you think about getting rid of the white areas of the eyes > > for the smaller 16x16 size? I think by just using the darker part would > > make them more clear. > > Definitely, no white area for 16x16 and make the black area larger (make > the whole white area black) > > > Diana > > ps. temporarily removed the nose cuz it doesn't show up on the smaller > > sizes...so thought i'd try it without the nose...hehe...what do you think? > > Right, the nose is an unneeded detail (it does not contribute in any way > to the specific emotion). Even at 48x48 was barely noticeable, so better > without it. > > -- > nicu > Cool Fedora wallpapers: http://fedora.nicubunu.ro/wallpapers/ > Open Clip Art Library: http://www.openclipart.org > my Fedora stuff: http://fedora.nicubunu.ro > > > > ------------------------------ > > _______________________________________________ > Fedora-art-list mailing list > Fedora-art-list at redhat.com > http://www.redhat.com/mailman/listinfo/fedora-art-list > > > End of Fedora-art-list Digest, Vol 5, Issue 34 > ********************************************** > > Luya Tshimbalanga -- Fedora Project Contributor http://www.fedoraproject.org/wiki/LuyaTshimbalanga http://www.fedoranews.org From nicu_fedora at nicubunu.ro Tue Aug 15 11:48:54 2006 From: nicu_fedora at nicubunu.ro (Nicu Buculei) Date: Tue, 15 Aug 2006 14:48:54 +0300 Subject: Fedora-art-list Digest, Vol 5, Issue 24 In-Reply-To: <44E0F7E4.1010303@redhat.com> References: <44E0F7E4.1010303@redhat.com> Message-ID: <44E1B4A6.90709@nicubunu.ro> Diana Fong wrote: > > Yup, I think your modifications of these icons have made them better > each time I see your updates. I'd like to work with you to tweak it a > bit to fit in with the set's color and whatnot. I was thinking > something like the attached EmoteB.png (with a darker blue face and a > dark blue mouth instead of the harsh black). I've also quickly modified > the color for a "classic yellow" one as Nicu suggested above. No strong > preference...though if we do go with a yellow...I'd like to see a darker > yellow -> yellow orange coloring. > > The two devil icons still looks a bit odd to me, I think it's the horns, > try making them a dark red? How about this devil? I edited a little the horns, the eye outlines and the mouth. Also attached is a try at a yellow orange "happy" emote. (again, with modified outlines for eyes and mouth) -- nicu Cool Fedora wallpapers: http://fedora.nicubunu.ro/wallpapers/ Open Clip Art Library: http://www.openclipart.org my Fedora stuff: http://fedora.nicubunu.ro -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... 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Name: face-smile-bigL.svg Type: image/svg+xml Size: 10474 bytes Desc: not available URL: From nicu_fedora at nicubunu.ro Tue Aug 15 12:12:05 2006 From: nicu_fedora at nicubunu.ro (Nicu Buculei) Date: Tue, 15 Aug 2006 15:12:05 +0300 Subject: Completed set of small emotes In-Reply-To: <44DC374B.60500@nicubunu.ro> References: <44DC374B.60500@nicubunu.ro> Message-ID: <44E1BA15.5080506@nicubunu.ro> Nicu Buculei wrote: > > The same for the crying icon: one single tear is enough as a metaphor, > having so many they are small and invisible. So leave just one or two > big tears. Attached is what I meant with a single tear. -- nicu Cool Fedora wallpapers: http://fedora.nicubunu.ro/wallpapers/ Open Clip Art Library: http://www.openclipart.org my Fedora stuff: http://fedora.nicubunu.ro -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... 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Name: face-cryingS.svg Type: image/svg+xml Size: 7245 bytes Desc: not available URL: From stb52988 at gmail.com Tue Aug 15 14:35:12 2006 From: stb52988 at gmail.com (Steve Barnhart) Date: Tue, 15 Aug 2006 10:35:12 -0400 Subject: Awesome Fedora Wallpaper In-Reply-To: <44E1454C.3090107@redhat.com> References: <44E1454C.3090107@redhat.com> Message-ID: <15ce3ec0608150735p327f1657sda050cb9f5ca57ba@mail.gmail.com> its not bad....I miss the actual red hat as our logo :) On 8/14/06, M?ir?n Duffy wrote: > http://www.deviantart.com/deviation/23479034/ > > I don't know what it is about this - but I just love this - I'm hoping > Pandul will update it with the latest logo! :) > > Had to share! > > ~m > > _______________________________________________ > Fedora-art-list mailing list > Fedora-art-list at redhat.com > http://www.redhat.com/mailman/listinfo/fedora-art-list > -- Steve From nicu_fedora at nicubunu.ro Tue Aug 15 14:53:01 2006 From: nicu_fedora at nicubunu.ro (Nicu Buculei) Date: Tue, 15 Aug 2006 17:53:01 +0300 Subject: Awesome Fedora Wallpaper In-Reply-To: <15ce3ec0608150735p327f1657sda050cb9f5ca57ba@mail.gmail.com> References: <44E1454C.3090107@redhat.com> <15ce3ec0608150735p327f1657sda050cb9f5ca57ba@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <44E1DFCD.3070709@nicubunu.ro> Steve Barnhart wrote: > its not bad....I miss the actual red hat as our logo :) But that wallpaper does not use the Red Hat logo, it is using my *unrelated* hat drawing, which happen to be colored in red[1] :p (and is also available in blue[2]) [1] http://fedora.nicubunu.ro/artwork/artwork/fedora_01_red.svg [2] http://fedora.nicubunu.ro/artwork/artwork/fedora_01_blue.svg > On 8/14/06, M?ir?n Duffy wrote: >> http://www.deviantart.com/deviation/23479034/ >> >> I don't know what it is about this - but I just love this - I'm hoping >> Pandul will update it with the latest logo! :) -- nicu Cool Fedora wallpapers: http://fedora.nicubunu.ro/wallpapers/ Open Clip Art Library: http://www.openclipart.org my Fedora stuff: http://fedora.nicubunu.ro From stb52988 at gmail.com Tue Aug 15 15:56:58 2006 From: stb52988 at gmail.com (Steve Barnhart) Date: Tue, 15 Aug 2006 11:56:58 -0400 Subject: Awesome Fedora Wallpaper In-Reply-To: <44E1DFCD.3070709@nicubunu.ro> References: <44E1454C.3090107@redhat.com> <15ce3ec0608150735p327f1657sda050cb9f5ca57ba@mail.gmail.com> <44E1DFCD.3070709@nicubunu.ro> Message-ID: <15ce3ec0608150856s65eae4bdyaea395a8b63642c1@mail.gmail.com> haha that should have been the logo :P On 8/15/06, Nicu Buculei wrote: > Steve Barnhart wrote: > > its not bad....I miss the actual red hat as our logo :) > > But that wallpaper does not use the Red Hat logo, it is using my > *unrelated* hat drawing, which happen to be colored in red[1] :p > (and is also available in blue[2]) > > [1] http://fedora.nicubunu.ro/artwork/artwork/fedora_01_red.svg > [2] http://fedora.nicubunu.ro/artwork/artwork/fedora_01_blue.svg > > > On 8/14/06, M?ir?n Duffy wrote: > >> http://www.deviantart.com/deviation/23479034/ > >> > >> I don't know what it is about this - but I just love this - I'm hoping > >> Pandul will update it with the latest logo! :) > > > -- > nicu > Cool Fedora wallpapers: http://fedora.nicubunu.ro/wallpapers/ > Open Clip Art Library: http://www.openclipart.org > my Fedora stuff: http://fedora.nicubunu.ro > > _______________________________________________ > Fedora-art-list mailing list > Fedora-art-list at redhat.com > http://www.redhat.com/mailman/listinfo/fedora-art-list > -- Steve From dfong at redhat.com Tue Aug 15 17:33:10 2006 From: dfong at redhat.com (Diana Fong) Date: Tue, 15 Aug 2006 13:33:10 -0400 Subject: Testing out the theme In-Reply-To: References: <44DBD786.2020704@fedoraproject.org> <44DD21B5.2050001@redhat.com> <44E08FC2.70403@redhat.com> Message-ID: <44E20556.1030903@redhat.com> Leon wrote: > I see. Does Illustrator supports exporting to plain svg? It's more > portable. > > Illustrator saves as SVG and compressed SVGz...I usually save as the regular svg with the default options checked. I just tried saving with various combinations of things unchecked and it doesn't seem to help. It did however, save as a much smaller file. I think I'll just have to go in and edit each later in Inkscape. Diana From duffy at redhat.com Tue Aug 15 17:36:43 2006 From: duffy at redhat.com (=?ISO-8859-1?Q?M=E1ir=EDn_Duffy?=) Date: Tue, 15 Aug 2006 13:36:43 -0400 Subject: Testing out the theme In-Reply-To: <44E20556.1030903@redhat.com> References: <44DBD786.2020704@fedoraproject.org> <44DD21B5.2050001@redhat.com> <44E08FC2.70403@redhat.com> <44E20556.1030903@redhat.com> Message-ID: <44E2062B.4030206@redhat.com> Diana Fong wrote: > Leon wrote: >> I see. Does Illustrator supports exporting to plain svg? It's more >> portable. >> >> > Illustrator saves as SVG and compressed SVGz...I usually save as the > regular svg with the default options checked. I just tried saving with > various combinations of things unchecked and it doesn't seem to help. > It did however, save as a much smaller file. I think I'll just have to > go in and edit each later in Inkscape. I wonder if a script exists to parse through the broken Illustrator SVG and take out all the extra crud? Nicu, what process do you follow to clean it up? What nodes have to be deleted? ~m From dfong at redhat.com Tue Aug 15 20:04:54 2006 From: dfong at redhat.com (Diana Fong) Date: Tue, 15 Aug 2006 16:04:54 -0400 Subject: Fedora-art-list Digest, Vol 5, Issue 24 In-Reply-To: <44E1B4A6.90709@nicubunu.ro> References: <44E0F7E4.1010303@redhat.com> <44E1B4A6.90709@nicubunu.ro> Message-ID: <44E228E6.601@redhat.com> Nicu Buculei wrote: > How about this devil? I edited a little the horns, the eye outlines > and the mouth. > =D I like it! > Also attached is a try at a yellow orange "happy" emote. (again, with > modified outlines for eyes and mouth) I've pointed Luya to these. Does anyone else have a strong opinion about these emotion icons being yellow...kinda curious and would like to take a quick poll. Thanks! Diana From andyfitz at gmail.com Wed Aug 16 00:23:05 2006 From: andyfitz at gmail.com (Andy Fitzsimon) Date: Wed, 16 Aug 2006 10:23:05 +1000 Subject: Testing out the theme In-Reply-To: <44E2062B.4030206@redhat.com> References: <44DBD786.2020704@fedoraproject.org> <44DD21B5.2050001@redhat.com> <44E08FC2.70403@redhat.com> <44E20556.1030903@redhat.com> <44E2062B.4030206@redhat.com> Message-ID: Here's a few hackish scripts that i use from time to time to get the filesize down Svg round.pl rounds node coords to a set decimal places and outputs to the terminal ( i just copy paste the output into gedit then find replace any two spaces with \t (tab) also for the more gui people out there...there is reduce precision!!!! The two setprecision files need to be in your /usr~/share/inkscape/extensions folder. They will add a new menu item in the effects > modify paths menu ( only setting to two decimal places works at this point ). ANOTHER RAD HACK !!!! Opening the svg file and looking for the chunks of text that start inside will remove the encoded images ( get your local commandline scripting ninja to write up a forloop the does this for you to all files ). um.. sorry ive been rambling ( got a little flu ) .. but i hope all this helps On 8/16/06, M?ir?n Duffy wrote: > Diana Fong wrote: > > Leon wrote: > >> I see. Does Illustrator supports exporting to plain svg? It's more > >> portable. > >> > >> > > Illustrator saves as SVG and compressed SVGz...I usually save as the > > regular svg with the default options checked. I just tried saving with > > various combinations of things unchecked and it doesn't seem to help. > > It did however, save as a much smaller file. I think I'll just have to > > go in and edit each later in Inkscape. > > I wonder if a script exists to parse through the broken Illustrator SVG > and take out all the extra crud? > > Nicu, what process do you follow to clean it up? What nodes have to be > deleted? > > ~m > > _______________________________________________ > Fedora-art-list mailing list > Fedora-art-list at redhat.com > http://www.redhat.com/mailman/listinfo/fedora-art-list > -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: svg-round2.pl Type: application/x-perl Size: 386 bytes Desc: not available URL: -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: setprecision.inx Type: application/octet-stream Size: 689 bytes Desc: not available URL: -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: setprecision.py Type: text/x-python Size: 3583 bytes Desc: not available URL: From sankarshan.mukhopadhyay at gmail.com Wed Aug 16 03:09:54 2006 From: sankarshan.mukhopadhyay at gmail.com (Sankarshan Mukhopadhyay) Date: Wed, 16 Aug 2006 08:39:54 +0530 Subject: [Help Requested] Artwork required for stickers Message-ID: <44E28C82.3000501@gmail.com> -----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- Hash: SHA1 Hi, Rahul had already forwarded my request: https://www.redhat.com/archives/fedora-art-list/2006-August/msg00122.html Does anyone have the relevant artwork (in .eps format perhaps) ? The .eps bit is required since the printers here apparently accept nothing else. Regards Sankarshan - -- You see things; and you say 'Why?'; But I dream things that never were; and I say 'Why not?' - George Bernard Shaw -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: GnuPG v1.4.5 (GNU/Linux) Comment: Using GnuPG with Fedora - http://enigmail.mozdev.org iD8DBQFE4oyCXQZpNTcrCzMRAonEAJ47gaEgQO/0hLRR31yW/SE5abE0dgCglYUq m2jO1qkOBk1rwylv06M5904= =fN9A -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- From nicu_fedora at nicubunu.ro Wed Aug 16 05:45:46 2006 From: nicu_fedora at nicubunu.ro (Nicu Buculei) Date: Wed, 16 Aug 2006 08:45:46 +0300 Subject: Testing out the theme In-Reply-To: <44E2062B.4030206@redhat.com> References: <44DBD786.2020704@fedoraproject.org> <44DD21B5.2050001@redhat.com> <44E08FC2.70403@redhat.com> <44E20556.1030903@redhat.com> <44E2062B.4030206@redhat.com> Message-ID: <44E2B10A.3090101@nicubunu.ro> M?ir?n Duffy wrote: > > I wonder if a script exists to parse through the broken Illustrator SVG > and take out all the extra crud? > > Nicu, what process do you follow to clean it up? What nodes have to be > deleted? What I did was completely unautomated: open the file, select all, copy, paste in a new document and save. This usually reduce the size of a file originated from Illustrator by 8-9 times. https://www.redhat.com/archives/fedora-art-list/2006-August/msg00013.html As Any said, is to delete in a scripted way anything inside CDATA, but I would go for anything inside ... (a little larger than CDATA) Also, I see inside the files made by Diana a binary portion in a rdf delimited by ..., which can be safely deleted (delete all the respective rdf). Deleting these two portions of binary data (yeah, I am lame, deleted manually with gedit) resulted in a file size reduction for image-missingL.svg from 469.6KB to 8.0KB!!! - http://fedora.nicubunu.ro/echo/image-missingL.svg (but this was a very simple image) -- nicu Cool Fedora wallpapers: http://fedora.nicubunu.ro/wallpapers/ Open Clip Art Library: http://www.openclipart.org my Fedora stuff: http://fedora.nicubunu.ro From nicu_fedora at nicubunu.ro Wed Aug 16 05:47:20 2006 From: nicu_fedora at nicubunu.ro (Nicu Buculei) Date: Wed, 16 Aug 2006 08:47:20 +0300 Subject: Testing out the theme In-Reply-To: <44E2B10A.3090101@nicubunu.ro> References: <44DBD786.2020704@fedoraproject.org> <44DD21B5.2050001@redhat.com> <44E08FC2.70403@redhat.com> <44E20556.1030903@redhat.com> <44E2062B.4030206@redhat.com> <44E2B10A.3090101@nicubunu.ro> Message-ID: <44E2B168.70404@nicubunu.ro> Nicu Buculei wrote: > > As Any said, Sorry Andy, my fat fingers misspelled your name :p -- nicu Cool Fedora wallpapers: http://fedora.nicubunu.ro/wallpapers/ Open Clip Art Library: http://www.openclipart.org my Fedora stuff: http://fedora.nicubunu.ro From nicu_fedora at nicubunu.ro Wed Aug 16 12:41:32 2006 From: nicu_fedora at nicubunu.ro (Nicu Buculei) Date: Wed, 16 Aug 2006 15:41:32 +0300 Subject: Fedora-art-list Digest, Vol 5, Issue 24 In-Reply-To: <44E228E6.601@redhat.com> References: <44E0F7E4.1010303@redhat.com> <44E1B4A6.90709@nicubunu.ro> <44E228E6.601@redhat.com> Message-ID: <44E3127C.5090607@nicubunu.ro> Diana Fong wrote: > > I've pointed Luya to these. Does anyone else have a strong opinion about > these emotion icons being yellow...kinda curious and would like to take > a quick poll. To ease this I here are all the emotes put together for a side by side comparison: http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/NicuBuculei?action=AttachFile&do=get&target=compare_emotes.png -- nicu Cool Fedora wallpapers: http://fedora.nicubunu.ro/wallpapers/ Open Clip Art Library: http://www.openclipart.org my Fedora stuff: http://fedora.nicubunu.ro From sundaram at fedoraproject.org Thu Aug 17 18:41:02 2006 From: sundaram at fedoraproject.org (Rahul) Date: Fri, 18 Aug 2006 00:11:02 +0530 Subject: Fedora-art-list Digest, Vol 5, Issue 24 In-Reply-To: <44E228E6.601@redhat.com> References: <44E0F7E4.1010303@redhat.com> <44E1B4A6.90709@nicubunu.ro> <44E228E6.601@redhat.com> Message-ID: <44E4B83E.8020302@fedoraproject.org> Diana Fong wrote: > Nicu Buculei wrote: >> How about this devil? I edited a little the horns, the eye outlines >> and the mouth. >> > =D I like it! > >> Also attached is a try at a yellow orange "happy" emote. (again, with >> modified outlines for eyes and mouth) > > I've pointed Luya to these. Does anyone else have a strong opinion about > these emotion icons being yellow...kinda curious and would like to take > a quick poll. I like Luya's icons. They are non-conventional and eye catching. Rahul From luya_tfz at thefinalzone.com Fri Aug 18 06:29:24 2006 From: luya_tfz at thefinalzone.com (Luya Tshimbalanga) Date: Fri, 18 Aug 2006 14:29:24 +0800 Subject: Fedora-art-list Digest, Vol 5, Issue 24 Message-ID: > To ease this I here are all the emotes put together for a side by side comparison: http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/NicuBuculei?action=AttachFile&do=get&target=compare_emotes.png > I like the modified kiss emote and the devil horns are improved as well. The other variant looks good except the surprised emotes which I found weird. As for the color, I don't have a particular preference. However, we could license alternate set of color emote for specific application. The yellow can have eyes on which grey pupil is replaced by light brown. I will let Diana casting a decision. As Rahul pointed out, having a non-conventional emotes is a welcome change :). Luya Tshimbalanga -- Fedora Project Contributor http://www.fedoraproject.org/wiki/LuyaTshimbalanga http://www.fedoranews.org From luya_tfz at thefinalzone.com Fri Aug 18 06:29:58 2006 From: luya_tfz at thefinalzone.com (Luya Tshimbalanga) Date: Fri, 18 Aug 2006 14:29:58 +0800 Subject: Fedora-art-list Digest, Vol 5, Issue 24 Message-ID: > To ease this I here are all the emotes put together for a side by side comparison: http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/NicuBuculei?action=AttachFile&do=get&target=compare_emotes.png > I like the modified kiss emote and the devil horns are improved as well. The other variant looks good except the surprised emotes which I found weird. As for the color, I don't have a particular preference. However, we could license alternate set of color emote for specific application. The yellow can have eyes on which grey pupil is replaced by light brown. I will let Diana casting a decision. As Rahul pointed out, having a non-conventional emotes is a welcome change :). Luya Tshimbalanga -- Fedora Project Contributor http://www.fedoraproject.org/wiki/LuyaTshimbalanga http://www.fedoranews.org From luya_tfz at thefinalzone.com Fri Aug 18 06:30:03 2006 From: luya_tfz at thefinalzone.com (Luya Tshimbalanga) Date: Fri, 18 Aug 2006 14:30:03 +0800 Subject: Fedora-art-list Digest, Vol 5, Issue 24 Message-ID: > To ease this I here are all the emotes put together for a side by side comparison: http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/NicuBuculei?action=AttachFile&do=get&target=compare_emotes.png > I like the modified kiss emote and the devil horns are improved as well. The other variant looks good except the surprised emotes which I found weird. As for the color, I don't have a particular preference. However, we could license alternate set of color emote for specific application. The yellow can have eyes on which grey pupil is replaced by light brown. I will let Diana casting a decision. As Rahul pointed out, having a non-conventional emotes is a welcome change :). Luya Tshimbalanga -- Fedora Project Contributor http://www.fedoraproject.org/wiki/LuyaTshimbalanga http://www.fedoranews.org From luya_tfz at thefinalzone.com Fri Aug 18 06:40:12 2006 From: luya_tfz at thefinalzone.com (Luya Tshimbalanga) Date: Fri, 18 Aug 2006 14:40:12 +0800 Subject: Fedora-art-list Digest, Vol 5, Issue 24 Message-ID: > To ease this I here are all the emotes put together for a side by side comparison: http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/NicuBuculei?action=AttachFile&do=get&target=compare_emotes.png > I like the modified kiss emote and the devil horns are improved as well. The other variant looks good except the surprised emotes which I found weird. As for the color, I don't have a particular preference. However, we could license alternate set of color emote for specific application. The yellow can have eyes on which grey pupil is replaced by light brown. I will let Diana casting a decision. As Rahul pointed out, having a non-conventional emotes is a welcome change :). Luya Tshimbalanga -- Fedora Project Contributor http://www.fedoraproject.org/wiki/LuyaTshimbalanga http://www.fedoranews.org From iamseawolf at gmail.com Fri Aug 18 16:25:39 2006 From: iamseawolf at gmail.com (seawolf) Date: Fri, 18 Aug 2006 17:25:39 +0100 Subject: Fedora-art-list Digest, Vol 5, Issue 24 In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <9c3bfa1d0608180925j570b6eeas45f6935cd9a25df6@mail.gmail.com> > Diana Fong wrote: > > > > I've pointed Luya to these. Does anyone else have a strong opinion about > > these emotion icons being yellow...kinda curious and would like to take > > a quick poll. > As Rahul pointed out, having a non-conventional emotes is a welcome > change :) The yellow ones are kinda standard; blue would theortically be more fitting with the general colours in Fedora but I don't reckon it works. Non-conventionism is always good ideas ofr change but blue faces are thought to be sad and I wouldn't think it looks right with the happy nor neutral ones. I like their designs though, very expressive. -- ..// seawolf //.. e-mail / msn / icq / yahoo iamseawolf (at) gmail (dot) com http://clik.to/seawolfsanctuary fedora core 5 : artwork GnuPG Available - ask me! From iamseawolf at gmail.com Fri Aug 18 17:35:04 2006 From: iamseawolf at gmail.com (seawolf) Date: Fri, 18 Aug 2006 18:35:04 +0100 Subject: Home folder icon In-Reply-To: <44DB96D5.7000609@redhat.com> References: <44DB96D5.7000609@redhat.com> Message-ID: <9c3bfa1d0608181035p16eed72cw7d0c8e5459bc8f08@mail.gmail.com> On 10/08/06, M?ir?n Duffy wrote: > It currently looks like the house icon is tilted back, leaning against > the folder. I think it would make more sense for such 'modifier' > subicons to have a straight-on perspective. IMHO Nautilus / Konqueror etc file managers work well as they do it flat on. It's kinda got a sticker slapped-on feel. Unless one goes for just the house and no folder icon? Eventhough this would lack the idea of a folder to keep stuff in, it's not like other folders for the 'average' desktop user. That said, I'm a KDE user so the big house icon is my preferred. Get my drift? That said, out of theose three, the home-1 (2/3) is my favourite as the house fills the empty space, whereas the last looks like it's a bit elongated. -- ..// seawolf //.. e-mail / msn / icq / yahoo iamseawolf (at) gmail (dot) com http://clik.to/seawolfsanctuary fedora core 5 : artwork GnuPG Available - ask me! From iamseawolf at gmail.com Fri Aug 18 18:20:28 2006 From: iamseawolf at gmail.com (seawolf) Date: Fri, 18 Aug 2006 19:20:28 +0100 Subject: Fedora Core 6 splash In-Reply-To: <1155551942.11923.4.camel@kinichahau.homebase> References: <44DE0CEB.1050508@fedoraproject.org> <44DEC180.1050302@redhat.com> <1155455543.2795.4.camel@MrTomLinux.workstation> <44DF0CA1.6040300@redhat.com> <1155507992.2784.5.camel@MrTomLinux.workstation> <44DFF73D.6090900@redhat.com> <1155551942.11923.4.camel@kinichahau.homebase> Message-ID: <9c3bfa1d0608181120w1119cd24hb641dbd6ae88e8c9@mail.gmail.com> On 14/08/06, Lars G wrote: > I really love the new DNA look! > So one vote from me for DNA. ;-) Do we actually have any other artwork themes around for FC6 as of yet? Methinks it's just this DNA one! Possibly the grafitti but not a totally resounding response! ;-) I read in another post the word "tranquility" which fits with my attitude towards a pleasing-to-use OS. The dark colours give FC this, IMHO, used well in the artwork submitted so far. -- ..// seawolf //.. e-mail / msn / icq / yahoo iamseawolf (at) gmail (dot) com http://clik.to/seawolfsanctuary fedora core 5 : artwork GnuPG Available - ask me! From iamseawolf at gmail.com Fri Aug 18 21:16:43 2006 From: iamseawolf at gmail.com (seawolf) Date: Fri, 18 Aug 2006 22:16:43 +0100 Subject: Gnome splash Image In-Reply-To: <44E08D79.4090102@nicubunu.ro> References: <1155500688.9221.1.camel@localhost.localdomain> <44E08D79.4090102@nicubunu.ro> Message-ID: <9c3bfa1d0608181416j35b4353cj24d2bf9f7566e109@mail.gmail.com> On 14/08/06, Nicu Buculei wrote: > Mola pahnadayan wrote: > > > I think the GNOME splash screen was supposed to be dropped > [snip] > Otherwise, how about a splash using the DNA theme from M?ir?n, for > consistency? If it's going to be dropped for GNOME then fair enough but for the KDE users among us, I've done one to replace the bubbles: it's at http://www.deviantart.com/deviation/38247808/ BTW: can anyone tell me how to upload the source so one can use the download link? -- ..// seawolf //.. e-mail / msn / icq / yahoo iamseawolf (at) gmail (dot) com http://clik.to/seawolfsanctuary fedora core 5 : artwork GnuPG Available - ask me! From duffy at redhat.com Fri Aug 18 21:41:50 2006 From: duffy at redhat.com (=?ISO-8859-1?Q?M=E1ir=EDn_Duffy?=) Date: Fri, 18 Aug 2006 17:41:50 -0400 Subject: Gnome splash Image In-Reply-To: <9c3bfa1d0608181416j35b4353cj24d2bf9f7566e109@mail.gmail.com> References: <1155500688.9221.1.camel@localhost.localdomain> <44E08D79.4090102@nicubunu.ro> <9c3bfa1d0608181416j35b4353cj24d2bf9f7566e109@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <543D0BA6-3A01-4911-BA15-588A0DDFB9DC@redhat.com> On Aug 18, 2006, at 5:16 PM, seawolf wrote: > > If it's going to be dropped for GNOME then fair enough but for the KDE > users among us, I've done one to replace the bubbles: it's at > http://www.deviantart.com/deviation/38247808/ Cool! I added my feedback directly to the deviation. > > BTW: can anyone tell me how to upload the source so one can use the > download link? deviantart is kind of weird this way :) when you upload the image, upload the svg (or a tar.gz or zip of the svg and some png versions, i like ding this sometimes if there are alternative forms) as the actual image, and upload the bitmap version as the preview. (yeh, it says the preview's gotta be 100x100 but the UI lies! :) ) that's how i attach my SVGs and other source work. *however* - if you upload a bitmap as the actual image rather than a non-bitmap filetype, you won't be able to attach a non-bitmap file later on. you'll have to create a new deviation and make sure you upload the source art in the first upload field. Make sense? No, I didn't think so. ;) I still love DA! Let me now if still no luck. ~m From Tommy.Reynolds at MegaCoder.com Sat Aug 19 05:50:43 2006 From: Tommy.Reynolds at MegaCoder.com (Tommy Reynolds) Date: Fri, 18 Aug 2006 22:50:43 -0700 Subject: Gnome splash Image In-Reply-To: <543D0BA6-3A01-4911-BA15-588A0DDFB9DC@redhat.com> References: <1155500688.9221.1.camel@localhost.localdomain> <44E08D79.4090102@nicubunu.ro> <9c3bfa1d0608181416j35b4353cj24d2bf9f7566e109@mail.gmail.com> <543D0BA6-3A01-4911-BA15-588A0DDFB9DC@redhat.com> Message-ID: <20060818225043.54a57d46.Tommy.Reynolds@MegaCoder.com> Uttered M?ir?n Duffy , spake thus: > Cool! I added my feedback directly to the deviation. I just gave an unofficial presentation, to some programmers at a large airframe manufacturing company in the US northwest that must remain nameless, about some safe programming techniques for POSIX threads. I used your deviation as the slide background but didn't call attention to it in any way; most especially, I didn't mention any possible FC6 connections. It looked really well on the projection screen, even though I had to wash out the image to use as a slide background. If you're interested, look here: http://www.megacoder.com/files/presentation/Thread-Safe_Programming.pdf For some reason, slide 23 got a resounding laugh... Cheers -- I'm already an anomaly, I shall soon be an anachronism, and I have every intention of dying an abuse! -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 189 bytes Desc: not available URL: From stb52988 at gmail.com Sat Aug 19 06:01:38 2006 From: stb52988 at gmail.com (Steve Barnhart) Date: Sat, 19 Aug 2006 02:01:38 -0400 Subject: Gnome splash Image In-Reply-To: <20060818225043.54a57d46.Tommy.Reynolds@MegaCoder.com> References: <1155500688.9221.1.camel@localhost.localdomain> <44E08D79.4090102@nicubunu.ro> <9c3bfa1d0608181416j35b4353cj24d2bf9f7566e109@mail.gmail.com> <543D0BA6-3A01-4911-BA15-588A0DDFB9DC@redhat.com> <20060818225043.54a57d46.Tommy.Reynolds@MegaCoder.com> Message-ID: <15ce3ec0608182301y131e406aw2a0c2531a93aef01@mail.gmail.com> I really hope its not dropped for GNOME. It adds another nice piece of artwork/polish to fedora and gnome in general. If its still going to be, hopefully you can make a gnome one still for use :) On 8/19/06, Tommy Reynolds wrote: > Uttered M?ir?n Duffy , spake thus: > > > Cool! I added my feedback directly to the deviation. > > I just gave an unofficial presentation, to some programmers at a large > airframe manufacturing company in the US northwest that must remain > nameless, about some safe programming techniques for POSIX threads. > I used your deviation as the slide background but didn't call > attention to it in any way; most especially, I didn't mention any > possible FC6 connections. > > It looked really well on the projection screen, even though I had to > wash out the image to use as a slide background. > > If you're interested, look here: > > http://www.megacoder.com/files/presentation/Thread-Safe_Programming.pdf > > For some reason, slide 23 got a resounding laugh... > > Cheers > > -- > I'm already an anomaly, I shall soon be an anachronism, and I have > every intention of dying an abuse! > > _______________________________________________ > Fedora-art-list mailing list > Fedora-art-list at redhat.com > http://www.redhat.com/mailman/listinfo/fedora-art-list > > > > -- Steve From nisses.mail at home.se Sat Aug 19 08:41:02 2006 From: nisses.mail at home.se (Andreas Nilsson) Date: Sat, 19 Aug 2006 10:41:02 +0200 Subject: Gnome splash Image In-Reply-To: <15ce3ec0608182301y131e406aw2a0c2531a93aef01@mail.gmail.com> References: <1155500688.9221.1.camel@localhost.localdomain> <44E08D79.4090102@nicubunu.ro> <9c3bfa1d0608181416j35b4353cj24d2bf9f7566e109@mail.gmail.com> <543D0BA6-3A01-4911-BA15-588A0DDFB9DC@redhat.com> <20060818225043.54a57d46.Tommy.Reynolds@MegaCoder.com> <15ce3ec0608182301y131e406aw2a0c2531a93aef01@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <44E6CE9E.1040302@home.se> Hi Steve! The reason that GNOME has a splash screen is because it starts up so slow that the user has to have something to look up while the system starts nautilus, the panel and other stuff. Other than that it mostly gets in the way of getting peoples work done. Imagine if your tv had a splash screen that appeared for 10 seconds when you turned it on. I know I would go nuts, because I don't want to know the name of the tv-manufacturer one more time, I want to watch CSI! The splash will probably still be in the 2.16 release, but hopefully we can kill it for 2.18. - Andreas Steve Barnhart wrote: > I really hope its not dropped for GNOME. It adds another nice piece of > artwork/polish to fedora and gnome in general. If its still going to > be, hopefully you can make a gnome one still for use :) > > On 8/19/06, Tommy Reynolds wrote: >> Uttered M?ir?n Duffy , spake thus: >> >> > Cool! I added my feedback directly to the deviation. >> >> I just gave an unofficial presentation, to some programmers at a large >> airframe manufacturing company in the US northwest that must remain >> nameless, about some safe programming techniques for POSIX threads. >> I used your deviation as the slide background but didn't call >> attention to it in any way; most especially, I didn't mention any >> possible FC6 connections. >> >> It looked really well on the projection screen, even though I had to >> wash out the image to use as a slide background. >> >> If you're interested, look here: >> >> http://www.megacoder.com/files/presentation/Thread-Safe_Programming.pdf >> >> For some reason, slide 23 got a resounding laugh... >> >> Cheers >> >> -- >> I'm already an anomaly, I shall soon be an anachronism, and I have >> every intention of dying an abuse! >> > > From duffy at redhat.com Sun Aug 20 05:38:53 2006 From: duffy at redhat.com (=?ISO-8859-1?Q?M=E1ir=EDn_Duffy?=) Date: Sun, 20 Aug 2006 01:38:53 -0400 Subject: Gnome splash Image In-Reply-To: <20060818225043.54a57d46.Tommy.Reynolds@MegaCoder.com> References: <1155500688.9221.1.camel@localhost.localdomain> <44E08D79.4090102@nicubunu.ro> <9c3bfa1d0608181416j35b4353cj24d2bf9f7566e109@mail.gmail.com> <543D0BA6-3A01-4911-BA15-588A0DDFB9DC@redhat.com> <20060818225043.54a57d46.Tommy.Reynolds@MegaCoder.com> Message-ID: <44E7F56D.3050300@redhat.com> Tommy Reynolds wrote: > Uttered M?ir?n Duffy , spake thus: > >> Cool! I added my feedback directly to the deviation. > > I just gave an unofficial presentation, to some programmers at a large > airframe manufacturing company in the US northwest that must remain > nameless, about some safe programming techniques for POSIX threads. > I used your deviation as the slide background but didn't call > attention to it in any way; most especially, I didn't mention any > possible FC6 connections. > > It looked really well on the projection screen, even though I had to > wash out the image to use as a slide background. Threads and semaphores, fun :) Totally sweet. ~m From jfrieben at freesurf.fr Sun Aug 20 10:25:00 2006 From: jfrieben at freesurf.fr (Joachim Frieben) Date: Sun, 20 Aug 2006 12:25:00 +0200 (CEST) Subject: Icon orientation Message-ID: <19550.194.94.224.254.1156069500.squirrel@arlette.freesurf.fr> Comparing the "Echo" icon set to the standard "Bluecurve" one, it pops to my eyes that the perspective has changed from "left" to "right". This is disturbing in the sense that the panel menus and the majority of the panel icons are located in the left half of the screen. The current orientation makes them "look away" from the user who is located on the axis through the center of the screen. Is there a reason why this change of perspective has been adopted? I for myself would clearly appreciate that the icons were "looking towards" the screen center which is achieved by fliping them about the vertical axis. This operation would allow to make "Echo" consistent with "Bluecurve" in this respect. From iamseawolf at gmail.com Sun Aug 20 10:39:25 2006 From: iamseawolf at gmail.com (seawolf) Date: Sun, 20 Aug 2006 11:39:25 +0100 Subject: Gnome splash Image In-Reply-To: <543D0BA6-3A01-4911-BA15-588A0DDFB9DC@redhat.com> References: <1155500688.9221.1.camel@localhost.localdomain> <44E08D79.4090102@nicubunu.ro> <9c3bfa1d0608181416j35b4353cj24d2bf9f7566e109@mail.gmail.com> <543D0BA6-3A01-4911-BA15-588A0DDFB9DC@redhat.com> Message-ID: <9c3bfa1d0608200339n239975bfp8fbbe653a8fb8ec6@mail.gmail.com> On 18/08/06, M?ir?n Duffy wrote: > > Make sense? No, I didn't think so. ;) I still love DA! Let me now if > still no luck. w00t: it worked with a new deviation as it doesn't work when editing it. Two KDE ones are at: http://www.deviantart.com/deviation/38334032/ http://www.deviantart.com/deviation/38334123/ Hope you all like them. I started with KDE because I use that instead of GNOME. I'll get on with the GNOME one after a little feedback in terms of design and I work out the sizes etc. -- ..// seawolf //.. e-mail / msn / icq / yahoo iamseawolf (at) gmail (dot) com http://clik.to/seawolfsanctuary fedora core 5 : artwork GnuPG Available - ask me! From box at mjungle.it Sun Aug 27 19:46:41 2006 From: box at mjungle.it (Marco D'Amico) Date: Sun, 27 Aug 2006 21:46:41 +0200 Subject: Awesome Fedora Wallpaper In-Reply-To: <44E1454C.3090107@redhat.com> References: <44E1454C.3090107@redhat.com> Message-ID: <44F1F6A1.80405@mjungle.it> M?ir?n Duffy ha scritto: > http://www.deviantart.com/deviation/23479034/ It's a nice idea but I don't like it because it showing the bubbles. Marco From stb52988 at gmail.com Sun Aug 27 22:47:31 2006 From: stb52988 at gmail.com (Steve Barnhart) Date: Sun, 27 Aug 2006 18:47:31 -0400 Subject: Awesome Fedora Wallpaper In-Reply-To: <44F1F6A1.80405@mjungle.it> References: <44E1454C.3090107@redhat.com> <44F1F6A1.80405@mjungle.it> Message-ID: <15ce3ec0608271547u6a2e765ep70dcf890ced4f508@mail.gmail.com> On 8/27/06, Marco D'Amico wrote: > M?ir?n Duffy ha scritto: > > http://www.deviantart.com/deviation/23479034/ > > It's a nice idea but I don't like it because it showing the bubbles. indeed -- Steve From subsolar at subsolar.com Mon Aug 28 02:00:12 2006 From: subsolar at subsolar.com (Paul) Date: Sun, 27 Aug 2006 21:00:12 -0500 Subject: Awesome Fedora Wallpaper In-Reply-To: <15ce3ec0608271547u6a2e765ep70dcf890ced4f508@mail.gmail.com> References: <44E1454C.3090107@redhat.com> <44F1F6A1.80405@mjungle.it> <15ce3ec0608271547u6a2e765ep70dcf890ced4f508@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <1156730412.2623.1.camel@localhost.localdomain> On Sun, 2006-08-27 at 18:47 -0400, Steve Barnhart wrote: > On 8/27/06, Marco D'Amico wrote: > > M?ir?n Duffy ha scritto: > > > http://www.deviantart.com/deviation/23479034/ > > > > It's a nice idea but I don't like it because it showing the bubbles. > > > indeed > Very Teal'c like. From nicu_fedora at nicubunu.ro Mon Aug 28 08:44:05 2006 From: nicu_fedora at nicubunu.ro (Nicu Buculei) Date: Mon, 28 Aug 2006 11:44:05 +0300 Subject: Jiri's artwork Message-ID: <44F2ACD5.6000502@nicubunu.ro> Jiri posted some artwork to the list, got criticized for breaking threads and temporarily unsubscribed. Also, he is not very confident with his English language skills and somewhat reluctant to join the list again. Here are a few of his recent creations: http://juiceoff.8m.com/ I think he can use some encouragement from us and has potential to become a valuable contributor. -- nicu Cool Fedora wallpapers: http://fedora.nicubunu.ro/wallpapers/ Open Clip Art Library: http://www.openclipart.org my Fedora stuff: http://fedora.nicubunu.ro From duffy at redhat.com Mon Aug 28 14:08:17 2006 From: duffy at redhat.com (=?ISO-8859-1?Q?M=E1ir=EDn_Duffy?=) Date: Mon, 28 Aug 2006 10:08:17 -0400 Subject: Jiri's artwork In-Reply-To: <44F2ACD5.6000502@nicubunu.ro> References: <44F2ACD5.6000502@nicubunu.ro> Message-ID: <44F2F8D1.40102@redhat.com> Nicu Buculei wrote: > Jiri posted some artwork to the list, got criticized for breaking > threads and temporarily unsubscribed. Also, he is not very confident > with his English language skills and somewhat reluctant to join the list > again. Jiri has a lot of talent and it is really ridiculous that he's been discouraged because of mailing list conventions he most likely wasn't aware of. Please, let's all try to be encouraging and friendly to any contributing artists, okay? Artists are sometimes not as technical as other folks and as such don't understand a lot of things technical folks take for granted such as the complexities of technical mailing list culture. The language barrier does not help either! If anyone has any issues with this list, please feel free to bring them up with me as I'm moderator. If anyone has concerns about someone's potential 'violation' of email etiquette you can bring that to me as well. > Here are a few of his recent creations: http://juiceoff.8m.com/ These are fabulous. > > I think he can use some encouragement from us and has potential to > become a valuable contributor. I agree! ~m From dfong at redhat.com Mon Aug 28 15:29:58 2006 From: dfong at redhat.com (Diana Fong) Date: Mon, 28 Aug 2006 11:29:58 -0400 Subject: Icon orientation In-Reply-To: <19550.194.94.224.254.1156069500.squirrel@arlette.freesurf.fr> References: <19550.194.94.224.254.1156069500.squirrel@arlette.freesurf.fr> Message-ID: <44F30BF6.6050807@redhat.com> Hi Joachim... Yes, Echo does face the opposite way of Bluecurve's direction. When I had first experimented with the perspective of the icons, the new direction made it more distinctive. As I have worked on it for the last 3 months, it seems less dramatic...probably because I stare at it everyday. If user testing show that the other orientation is more visually pleasing, I would not be opposed to flipping it later. While most icons can be flipped and used as is, there is a number that will need to be slightly altered for balance. Diana Joachim Frieben wrote: > Comparing the "Echo" icon set to the standard "Bluecurve" one, it pops to my > eyes that the perspective has changed from "left" to "right". > This is disturbing in the sense that the panel menus and the majority of the > panel icons are located in the left half of the screen. The current > orientation makes them "look away" from the user who is located on the axis > through the center of the screen. > Is there a reason why this change of perspective has been adopted? I for > myself would clearly appreciate that the icons were "looking towards" the > screen center which is achieved by fliping them about the vertical axis. > This operation would allow to make "Echo" consistent with "Bluecurve" in > this respect. > > > _______________________________________________ > Fedora-art-list mailing list > Fedora-art-list at redhat.com > http://www.redhat.com/mailman/listinfo/fedora-art-list > From onuorah_ifeoma at yahoo.com Mon Aug 28 14:34:01 2006 From: onuorah_ifeoma at yahoo.com (Ifeoma Onuorah) Date: Mon, 28 Aug 2006 07:34:01 -0700 (PDT) Subject: Fedora Art Background Message-ID: <20060828143401.6109.qmail@web35711.mail.mud.yahoo.com> Hello Everyone, This is my first time posting on the mailing list, though I have been on it for a little while now. I am a graphic/ UI design intern at red hat. I have done some UI work on the red hat website and very recently I made some 24x24 minimizations for the Fedora Echo Development Project. During my internship I did a sketch of a possible background. It's still pencil-to-paper, but if anyone had any suggestions, contributions or anything about this please let me know. Possible Fedora Art Background: Click here! -Ify --------------------------------- Get your email and more, right on the new Yahoo.com -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From andyfitz at gmail.com Tue Aug 29 05:41:21 2006 From: andyfitz at gmail.com (Andy Fitzsimon) Date: Tue, 29 Aug 2006 15:41:21 +1000 Subject: Fedora Art Background In-Reply-To: References: <20060828143401.6109.qmail@web35711.mail.mud.yahoo.com> Message-ID: actually, here's another one On 8/29/06, Andy Fitzsimon wrote: > That looks awesome!! > > I had a quick play with it in inkscape, feel free to take this and > run with it.. its far from finished. > > Great work mate > > > Andy > > On 8/29/06, Ifeoma Onuorah wrote: > > Hello Everyone, > > > > This is my first time posting on the mailing list, though I have been on > > it for a little while now. I am a graphic/ UI design intern at red hat. I > > have done some UI work on the red hat website and very recently I made some > > 24x24 minimizations for the Fedora Echo Development Project. During my > > internship I did a sketch of a possible background. It's still > > pencil-to-paper, but if anyone had any suggestions, contributions or > > anything about this please let me know. > > > > Possible Fedora Art Background: Click here! > > > > -Ify > > > > > > > > ________________________________ > > Get your email and more, right on the new Yahoo.com > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > > Fedora-art-list mailing list > > Fedora-art-list at redhat.com > > http://www.redhat.com/mailman/listinfo/fedora-art-list > > > > > > > > > -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: fedorabowl.svgz Type: image/svg+xml Size: 27026 bytes Desc: not available URL: From ionuorah at redhat.com Tue Aug 29 13:26:21 2006 From: ionuorah at redhat.com (Ifeoma Onuorah) Date: Tue, 29 Aug 2006 09:26:21 -0400 Subject: Fedora Art Background In-Reply-To: References: <20060828143401.6109.qmail@web35711.mail.mud.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <44F4407D.7050800@redhat.com> Oh My goodness! That is really amazing Andy! Thanks for adding to my artwork. I hope to one day be able to make stuff as cool as that.. but until then I'll keep submitting my drawings! -Ify >> >> >> >> > ------------------------------------------------------------------------ > > _______________________________________________ > Fedora-art-list mailing list > Fedora-art-list at redhat.com > http://www.redhat.com/mailman/listinfo/fedora-art-list > From andyfitz at gmail.com Tue Aug 29 01:27:37 2006 From: andyfitz at gmail.com (Andy Fitzsimon) Date: Tue, 29 Aug 2006 11:27:37 +1000 Subject: Fedora Art Background In-Reply-To: <20060828143401.6109.qmail@web35711.mail.mud.yahoo.com> References: <20060828143401.6109.qmail@web35711.mail.mud.yahoo.com> Message-ID: That looks awesome!! I had a quick play with it in inkscape, feel free to take this and run with it.. its far from finished. Great work mate Andy On 8/29/06, Ifeoma Onuorah wrote: > Hello Everyone, > > This is my first time posting on the mailing list, though I have been on > it for a little while now. I am a graphic/ UI design intern at red hat. I > have done some UI work on the red hat website and very recently I made some > 24x24 minimizations for the Fedora Echo Development Project. During my > internship I did a sketch of a possible background. It's still > pencil-to-paper, but if anyone had any suggestions, contributions or > anything about this please let me know. > > Possible Fedora Art Background: Click here! > > -Ify > > > > ________________________________ > Get your email and more, right on the new Yahoo.com > > > _______________________________________________ > Fedora-art-list mailing list > Fedora-art-list at redhat.com > http://www.redhat.com/mailman/listinfo/fedora-art-list > > > -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: fedorabowl.svgz Type: image/svg+xml Size: 66775 bytes Desc: not available URL: From duffy at redhat.com Tue Aug 29 13:36:12 2006 From: duffy at redhat.com (=?ISO-8859-1?Q?M=E1ir=EDn_Duffy?=) Date: Tue, 29 Aug 2006 09:36:12 -0400 Subject: Fedora Art Background In-Reply-To: References: <20060828143401.6109.qmail@web35711.mail.mud.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <44F442CC.7060307@redhat.com> Andy Fitzsimon wrote: > actually, here's another one > On 8/29/06, Andy Fitzsimon wrote: >> That looks awesome!! >> >> I had a quick play with it in inkscape, feel free to take this and >> run with it.. its far from finished. Holy crap Andy! :) ~m From box at mjungle.it Tue Aug 29 13:54:16 2006 From: box at mjungle.it (Marco D'Amico) Date: Tue, 29 Aug 2006 15:54:16 +0200 Subject: Fedora Art Background In-Reply-To: References: <20060828143401.6109.qmail@web35711.mail.mud.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <44F44708.6080103@mjungle.it> Andy Fitzsimon ha scritto: > actually, here's another one Very good works! I prefer the first version, it's more clear. Marco From sundaram at fedoraproject.org Tue Aug 29 15:11:07 2006 From: sundaram at fedoraproject.org (Rahul) Date: Tue, 29 Aug 2006 20:41:07 +0530 Subject: Testing out the theme In-Reply-To: <44DD21B5.2050001@redhat.com> References: <44DBD786.2020704@fedoraproject.org> <44DD21B5.2050001@redhat.com> Message-ID: <44F4590B.201@fedoraproject.org> Diana Fong wrote: > Rahul wrote: >> Hi >> >> Users who want to take a look at this new Echo theme would want a >> quick and easy way to install and check it out. >> >> Currently all I see is a list of SVG files in a wiki page. Can we put >> up a tarball appropriately packaged or a RPM package that is updated >> frequently perhaps? > > Hello again... > > I mentioned this over lunch today and J5 (John Palmieri) wrote a python > script to pull all the files from the wiki. (attached). Yeay! The > following are some technical details that he included if someone would > like to take this on and modify it. Like last time, I've got two > .tar...one is just the PNGs [1] and the other is PNG+SVG (44.1M) [2]. > The naming of the files are a bit different this time as it is pulled > directly from the wiki. Leon, if you could do what you did last time, > that would be great! > > Thanks, > Diana > > [1] http://people.redhat.com/dfong/icons/echo48_0.11.tar.bz2 > [2] http://people.redhat.com/dfong/icons/echo_0.11.tar.bz2 > This does not appear to be a tarball in a format that I can drop into gnome theme manager preferences dialog to test it. If the theme is relatively complete by now, it would be useful to create a RPM and submit it for review, get into rawhide and provide updates as we progress. Are you guys planning to include it before test 3 release or is it undecided yet whether we would be using this icon set as default for Fedora Core 6? Rahul From duffy at redhat.com Tue Aug 29 15:24:26 2006 From: duffy at redhat.com (=?ISO-8859-1?Q?M=E1ir=EDn_Duffy?=) Date: Tue, 29 Aug 2006 11:24:26 -0400 Subject: Testing out the theme In-Reply-To: <44F4590B.201@fedoraproject.org> References: <44DBD786.2020704@fedoraproject.org> <44DD21B5.2050001@redhat.com> <44F4590B.201@fedoraproject.org> Message-ID: <44F45C2A.3040704@redhat.com> Rahul wrote: > This does not appear to be a tarball in a format that I can drop into > gnome theme manager preferences dialog to test it. If the theme is > relatively complete by now, it would be useful to create a RPM and > submit it for review, get into rawhide and provide updates as we progress. > > Are you guys planning to include it before test 3 release or is it > undecided yet whether we would be using this icon set as default for > Fedora Core 6? I would argue (as others have a lot more loudly) that this really isn't ready to be a default icon theme (at least in its current state altho there's still *some* time) and its development seems to be at the detriment of the rest of the artwork. The rest of the artwork (GDM, wallpaper, etc) could have been ready easily.... ...but the process by which one gets (non-icon) artwork into the distribution remains muddily-defined & mysterious despite the contributions of several community members. *Extremely* frustrating. Looks like we'll be stuck with Fedora bubbles again. ~m From sundaram at fedoraproject.org Tue Aug 29 15:32:22 2006 From: sundaram at fedoraproject.org (Rahul) Date: Tue, 29 Aug 2006 21:02:22 +0530 Subject: Testing out the theme In-Reply-To: <44F45C2A.3040704@redhat.com> References: <44DBD786.2020704@fedoraproject.org> <44DD21B5.2050001@redhat.com> <44F4590B.201@fedoraproject.org> <44F45C2A.3040704@redhat.com> Message-ID: <44F45E06.2060703@fedoraproject.org> M?ir?n Duffy wrote: > > I would argue (as others have a lot more loudly) that this really isn't > ready to be a default icon theme (at least in its current state altho > there's still *some* time) and its development seems to be at the > detriment of the rest of the artwork. The rest of the artwork (GDM, > wallpaper, etc) could have been ready easily.... > > ...but the process by which one gets (non-icon) artwork into the > distribution remains muddily-defined & mysterious despite the > contributions of several community members. *Extremely* frustrating. > Looks like we'll be stuck with Fedora bubbles again. > It should be relatively simple to file a patch against any particular package or talk to the relevant package maintainers and release engineering team if you need help. The development processes itself need to be better documented and I will get to doing that ASAP. What have you tried so far and what exactly is frustrating? Rahul From duffy at redhat.com Tue Aug 29 15:55:55 2006 From: duffy at redhat.com (=?ISO-8859-1?Q?M=E1ir=EDn_Duffy?=) Date: Tue, 29 Aug 2006 11:55:55 -0400 Subject: Testing out the theme In-Reply-To: <44F45E06.2060703@fedoraproject.org> References: <44DBD786.2020704@fedoraproject.org> <44DD21B5.2050001@redhat.com> <44F4590B.201@fedoraproject.org> <44F45C2A.3040704@redhat.com> <44F45E06.2060703@fedoraproject.org> Message-ID: <44F4638B.7010606@redhat.com> Rahul wrote: >> ...but the process by which one gets (non-icon) artwork into the >> distribution remains muddily-defined & mysterious despite the >> contributions of several community members. *Extremely* frustrating. >> Looks like we'll be stuck with Fedora bubbles again. >> > It should be relatively simple to file a patch against any particular > package or talk to the relevant package maintainers and release > engineering team if you need help. I have and I've been told that package maintainers do not have final say over what default artwork is approved for inclusion in their package. This is supposed to be a community distribution. This includes code and artwork, right? Or am I just being a rabble rouser here? > The development processes itself need to be better documented and I will > get to doing that ASAP. What have you tried so far and what exactly is > frustrating? I started creating a theme as a potential default for FC6 which I continue to receive extremely positive feedback on. Yet, there is no formal process to submit it and get it 'approved' by whomever (within RH's walls right now I guess - I would *love* for this to be something the community had control over though, maybe the FAB or maybe a small group of art community members could make a decision). So my artwork sits there and I've given up on finishing & implementing everything in time for FC6 because there's no sign/indication that my effort won't be wasted (and frankly, I'm involved in other FOSS projects where, instead of me struggling to get artwork in, I'm invited quite nicely to contribute and my work is taken seriously. Can you guess where I'm preferring to spend my time these days?) It's not really important to me *what* artwork gets in, quite frankly. I think the stuff Ify and Andy have come up just within the past couple of days is fabulous & far better than the DNA stuff I threw together. I just strongly believe that community contributions aren't taken seriously and they should be (and by taken seriously I mean actually used in the distro!!) In summary, the process of getting artwork into a Fedora release *needs* to be transparent & documented, and I think some community input needs to be built into this process. ~m [1] http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Artwork/ThemeSubmissions/DNATheme From spydrrrrr at gmail.com Tue Aug 29 18:09:15 2006 From: spydrrrrr at gmail.com (spydrrrrr at gmail.com) Date: Tue, 29 Aug 2006 14:09:15 -0400 Subject: how to request to be in the art project? Message-ID: Hi everyone, I put in a request to join the art team but I am not sure I did it right since I was sent an email from myself asking myself to approve myself??? anyway... I have done all the required steps to joing the group... up until actually requesting the be in the arts project... How does done do this? Once I am logged in the Account System how do I request to be added to one of the Arts projects? I can't seem to find a list and in the bottom right of the screen I tried to find a list of names for the projects but can't... Sorry I am a bit of a noob when it comes to adding projects... -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From baerjj at gmail.com Tue Aug 29 20:20:55 2006 From: baerjj at gmail.com (John Baer) Date: Tue, 29 Aug 2006 16:20:55 -0400 Subject: New to the list - need advice Message-ID: <1156882855.4003.7.camel@localhost.localdomain> Hello All, New to the list and need advice. 1. Is the font used to create the word "fedora" available? If so where may I obtain it? If not, how may I reproduce it? 2. What is the process for submitting artwork proposals for FC 6? Is there a published artwork road map? Thank you, John -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: signature.asc Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 189 bytes Desc: This is a digitally signed message part URL: From spydrrrrr at gmail.com Tue Aug 29 21:00:19 2006 From: spydrrrrr at gmail.com (spydrrrrr at gmail.com) Date: Tue, 29 Aug 2006 17:00:19 -0400 Subject: New to the list - need advice In-Reply-To: <1156882855.4003.7.camel@localhost.localdomain> References: <1156882855.4003.7.camel@localhost.localdomain> Message-ID: Actually I am part of the list and group and I was wondering the same thing.... On 8/29/06, John Baer wrote: > > Hello All, > > New to the list and need advice. > > 1. Is the font used to create the word "fedora" available? If so where > may I obtain it? If not, how may I reproduce it? > > 2. What is the process for submitting artwork proposals for FC 6? Is > there a published artwork road map? > > Thank you, > > John > > > > _______________________________________________ > Fedora-art-list mailing list > Fedora-art-list at redhat.com > http://www.redhat.com/mailman/listinfo/fedora-art-list > > > > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From sdl.web at gmail.com Tue Aug 29 21:18:44 2006 From: sdl.web at gmail.com (Leon) Date: Tue, 29 Aug 2006 22:18:44 +0100 Subject: New to the list - need advice References: <1156882855.4003.7.camel@localhost.localdomain> Message-ID: On Tue, 29 Aug 2006 17:00:19 -0400, spydrrrrr-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w wrote: > Actually I am part of the list and group and I was wondering the same thing.... > > On 8/29/06, John Baer wrote: > > Hello All, > > New to the list and need advice. > > 1. Is the font used to create the word "fedora" available? If so where > may I obtain it? If not, how may I reproduce it? > > 2. What is the process for submitting artwork proposals for FC 6? Is > there a published artwork road map? > > Thank you, > > John > Welcome, you two! I think most of the information is here: http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Artwork -- Leon From stickster at gmail.com Tue Aug 29 21:27:43 2006 From: stickster at gmail.com (Paul W. Frields) Date: Tue, 29 Aug 2006 21:27:43 +0000 Subject: Testing out the theme In-Reply-To: <44F4638B.7010606@redhat.com> References: <44DBD786.2020704@fedoraproject.org> <44DD21B5.2050001@redhat.com> <44F4590B.201@fedoraproject.org> <44F45C2A.3040704@redhat.com> <44F45E06.2060703@fedoraproject.org> <44F4638B.7010606@redhat.com> Message-ID: <1156886863.12689.59.camel@localhost.localdomain> On Tue, 2006-08-29 at 11:55 -0400, M?ir?n Duffy wrote: > Rahul wrote: > >> ...but the process by which one gets (non-icon) artwork into the > >> distribution remains muddily-defined & mysterious despite the > >> contributions of several community members. *Extremely* frustrating. > >> Looks like we'll be stuck with Fedora bubbles again. > >> > > It should be relatively simple to file a patch against any particular > > package or talk to the relevant package maintainers and release > > engineering team if you need help. > > I have and I've been told that package maintainers do not have final say > over what default artwork is approved for inclusion in their package. > > This is supposed to be a community distribution. This includes code and > artwork, right? Or am I just being a rabble rouser here? > > > The development processes itself need to be better documented and I will > > get to doing that ASAP. What have you tried so far and what exactly is > > frustrating? > > I started creating a theme as a potential default for FC6 which I > continue to receive extremely positive feedback on. Yet, there is no > formal process to submit it and get it 'approved' by whomever (within > RH's walls right now I guess - I would *love* for this to be something > the community had control over though, maybe the FAB or maybe a small > group of art community members could make a decision). So my artwork > sits there and I've given up on finishing & implementing everything in > time for FC6 because there's no sign/indication that my effort won't be > wasted (and frankly, I'm involved in other FOSS projects where, instead > of me struggling to get artwork in, I'm invited quite nicely to > contribute and my work is taken seriously. Can you guess where I'm > preferring to spend my time these days?) > > It's not really important to me *what* artwork gets in, quite frankly. I > think the stuff Ify and Andy have come up just within the past couple of > days is fabulous & far better than the DNA stuff I threw together. I > just strongly believe that community contributions aren't taken > seriously and they should be (and by taken seriously I mean actually > used in the distro!!) > > In summary, the process of getting artwork into a Fedora release *needs* > to be transparent & documented, and I think some community input needs > to be built into this process. M?ir?n, Don't get too frustrated... I suspect that there is a "vast silent majority" of community members like myself who really dig your work. I am constantly amazed at the Good Stuff I see coming out of this project, both in the Echo development process and the neat backgrounds, theme elements, and such. If you needed an "attaboy," consider it done! -- Paul W. Frields, RHCE http://paul.frields.org/ gpg fingerprint: 3DA6 A0AC 6D58 FEC4 0233 5906 ACDB C937 BD11 3717 Fedora Project Board: http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Board Fedora Docs Project: http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/DocsProject -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: signature.asc Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 189 bytes Desc: This is a digitally signed message part URL: From nicu_fedora at nicubunu.ro Wed Aug 30 06:30:56 2006 From: nicu_fedora at nicubunu.ro (Nicu Buculei) Date: Wed, 30 Aug 2006 09:30:56 +0300 Subject: Testing out the theme In-Reply-To: <44F4638B.7010606@redhat.com> References: <44DBD786.2020704@fedoraproject.org> <44DD21B5.2050001@redhat.com> <44F4590B.201@fedoraproject.org> <44F45C2A.3040704@redhat.com> <44F45E06.2060703@fedoraproject.org> <44F4638B.7010606@redhat.com> Message-ID: <44F530A0.5010307@nicubunu.ro> M?ir?n Duffy wrote: > Rahul wrote: >> It should be relatively simple to file a patch against any particular >> package or talk to the relevant package maintainers and release >> engineering team if you need help. > > I have and I've been told that package maintainers do not have final say > over what default artwork is approved for inclusion in their package. Is not that easy like submitting a patch: consider two or more people submitting artwork proposals for the same thing, say the GDM theme. This is supposed to be art and the judgment is subjective, is not that easy to say this patch is bad and this another patch is good. There is need for leadership and a clear process. > This is supposed to be a community distribution. This includes code and > artwork, right? Or am I just being a rabble rouser here? I think the Art project should have an internal process to select and propose look for a certain > It's not really important to me *what* artwork gets in, quite frankly. I > think the stuff Ify and Andy have come up just within the past couple of > days is fabulous & far better than the DNA stuff I threw together. I Parenthesis: I generally like Andy's work and I find this particular image extremely shiny, but I don't get the metaphor. > just strongly believe that community contributions aren't taken > seriously and they should be (and by taken seriously I mean actually > used in the distro!!) > > In summary, the process of getting artwork into a Fedora release *needs* > to be transparent & documented, and I think some community input needs > to be built into this process. +10, agree completely, there is a huge need for a clear process. -- nicu Cool Fedora wallpapers: http://fedora.nicubunu.ro/wallpapers/ Open Clip Art Library: http://www.openclipart.org my Fedora stuff: http://fedora.nicubunu.ro From nicu_fedora at nicubunu.ro Wed Aug 30 06:56:12 2006 From: nicu_fedora at nicubunu.ro (Nicu Buculei) Date: Wed, 30 Aug 2006 09:56:12 +0300 Subject: New to the list - need advice In-Reply-To: <1156882855.4003.7.camel@localhost.localdomain> References: <1156882855.4003.7.camel@localhost.localdomain> Message-ID: <44F5368C.1050508@nicubunu.ro> John Baer wrote: > Hello All, > > New to the list and need advice. > > 1. Is the font used to create the word "fedora" available? If so where > may I obtain it? If not, how may I reproduce it? The font is a proprietary one, named Bryant2, is not possbile to redistribute it: http://www.processtypefoundry.com/typefaces/bryant2/index.html I tried to reproduce it by tracing samples at a very high-resolution, is hard and I am not an expert in fonts. > 2. What is the process for submitting artwork proposals for FC 6? Is > there a published artwork road map? Submitting proposals is easy: post them somewhere (eventually on fedoraproject.org Wiki) and send a message to the list. Getting them in the distro is the hard part and there is an ongoing discussion about this process: https://www.redhat.com/archives/fedora-devel-list/2006-August/msg01193.html -- nicu Cool Fedora wallpapers: http://fedora.nicubunu.ro/wallpapers/ Open Clip Art Library: http://www.openclipart.org my Fedora stuff: http://fedora.nicubunu.ro From andyfitz at gmail.com Wed Aug 30 07:11:58 2006 From: andyfitz at gmail.com (Andy Fitzsimon) Date: Wed, 30 Aug 2006 17:11:58 +1000 Subject: Fedora Art Background In-Reply-To: <44F44708.6080103@mjungle.it> References: <20060828143401.6109.qmail@web35711.mail.mud.yahoo.com> <44F44708.6080103@mjungle.it> Message-ID: made a wallpaper out of it . not completely resolved. anyone wanna pick this up ? Thanks again Ify On 8/29/06, Marco D'Amico wrote: > Andy Fitzsimon ha scritto: > > actually, here's another one > > Very good works! I prefer the first version, it's more clear. > > Marco > > _______________________________________________ > Fedora-art-list mailing list > Fedora-art-list at redhat.com > http://www.redhat.com/mailman/listinfo/fedora-art-list > -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: test.png Type: image/png Size: 840151 bytes Desc: not available URL: -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: fedorabowl.svgz Type: image/svg+xml Size: 28708 bytes Desc: not available URL: From spydrrrrr at gmail.com Wed Aug 30 13:30:43 2006 From: spydrrrrr at gmail.com (spydrrrrr at gmail.com) Date: Wed, 30 Aug 2006 09:30:43 -0400 Subject: New to the list - need advice In-Reply-To: <44F5368C.1050508@nicubunu.ro> References: <1156882855.4003.7.camel@localhost.localdomain> <44F5368C.1050508@nicubunu.ro> Message-ID: Is there a repository of artwork that needs to be worked on? Also what about the recurring graphic with the f inside the infinity symbol... is there a copy of it that we can use to incorporate in other artwork? On 8/30/06, Nicu Buculei wrote: > > John Baer wrote: > > Hello All, > > > > New to the list and need advice. > > > > 1. Is the font used to create the word "fedora" available? If so where > > may I obtain it? If not, how may I reproduce it? > > The font is a proprietary one, named Bryant2, is not possbile to > redistribute it: > http://www.processtypefoundry.com/typefaces/bryant2/index.html > > I tried to reproduce it by tracing samples at a very high-resolution, is > hard and I am not an expert in fonts. > > > 2. What is the process for submitting artwork proposals for FC 6? Is > > there a published artwork road map? > > Submitting proposals is easy: post them somewhere (eventually on > fedoraproject.org Wiki) and send a message to the list. Getting them in > the distro is the hard part and there is an ongoing discussion about > this process: > > https://www.redhat.com/archives/fedora-devel-list/2006-August/msg01193.html > > -- > nicu > Cool Fedora wallpapers: http://fedora.nicubunu.ro/wallpapers/ > Open Clip Art Library: http://www.openclipart.org > my Fedora stuff: http://fedora.nicubunu.ro > > _______________________________________________ > Fedora-art-list mailing list > Fedora-art-list at redhat.com > http://www.redhat.com/mailman/listinfo/fedora-art-list > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From spydrrrrr at gmail.com Wed Aug 30 13:32:49 2006 From: spydrrrrr at gmail.com (spydrrrrr at gmail.com) Date: Wed, 30 Aug 2006 09:32:49 -0400 Subject: New to the list - need advice In-Reply-To: References: <1156882855.4003.7.camel@localhost.localdomain> <44F5368C.1050508@nicubunu.ro> Message-ID: I should learn how to read. Thanks Leon! On 8/30/06, spydrrrrr at gmail.com wrote: > > Is there a repository of artwork that needs to be worked on? > Also what about the recurring graphic with the f inside the infinity > symbol... is there a copy of it that we can use to incorporate in other > artwork? > > > > On 8/30/06, Nicu Buculei wrote: > > > > John Baer wrote: > > > Hello All, > > > > > > New to the list and need advice. > > > > > > 1. Is the font used to create the word "fedora" available? If so where > > > may I obtain it? If not, how may I reproduce it? > > > > The font is a proprietary one, named Bryant2, is not possbile to > > redistribute it: > > http://www.processtypefoundry.com/typefaces/bryant2/index.html > > > > I tried to reproduce it by tracing samples at a very high-resolution, is > > hard and I am not an expert in fonts. > > > > > 2. What is the process for submitting artwork proposals for FC 6? Is > > > there a published artwork road map? > > > > Submitting proposals is easy: post them somewhere (eventually on > > fedoraproject.org Wiki) and send a message to the list. Getting them in > > the distro is the hard part and there is an ongoing discussion about > > this process: > > > > https://www.redhat.com/archives/fedora-devel-list/2006-August/msg01193.html > > > > -- > > nicu > > Cool Fedora wallpapers: http://fedora.nicubunu.ro/wallpapers/ > > Open Clip Art Library: http://www.openclipart.org > > my Fedora stuff: http://fedora.nicubunu.ro > > > > _______________________________________________ > > Fedora-art-list mailing list > > Fedora-art-list at redhat.com > > http://www.redhat.com/mailman/listinfo/fedora-art-list > > > > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From onuorah_ifeoma at yahoo.com Wed Aug 30 13:27:08 2006 From: onuorah_ifeoma at yahoo.com (Ifeoma Onuorah) Date: Wed, 30 Aug 2006 06:27:08 -0700 (PDT) Subject: Fedora Art Background In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <20060830132708.73877.qmail@web35701.mail.mud.yahoo.com> Very cool! Great job. I'm not that good with inskape but I have been learning and playing around with your design a tad. -Ify Andy Fitzsimon wrote: made a wallpaper out of it . not completely resolved. anyone wanna pick this up ? Thanks again Ify On 8/29/06, Marco D'Amico wrote: > Andy Fitzsimon ha scritto: > > actually, here's another one > > Very good works! I prefer the first version, it's more clear. > > Marco > > _______________________________________________ > Fedora-art-list mailing list > Fedora-art-list at redhat.com > http://www.redhat.com/mailman/listinfo/fedora-art-list > _______________________________________________ Fedora-art-list mailing list Fedora-art-list at redhat.com http://www.redhat.com/mailman/listinfo/fedora-art-list --------------------------------- Get your email and more, right on the new Yahoo.com -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From dfong at redhat.com Wed Aug 30 16:18:45 2006 From: dfong at redhat.com (Diana Fong) Date: Wed, 30 Aug 2006 12:18:45 -0400 Subject: New to the list - need advice In-Reply-To: <44F5368C.1050508@nicubunu.ro> References: <1156882855.4003.7.camel@localhost.localdomain> <44F5368C.1050508@nicubunu.ro> Message-ID: <44F5BA65.6010000@redhat.com> Nicu Buculei wrote: > John Baer wrote: >> Hello All, >> >> New to the list and need advice. >> >> 1. Is the font used to create the word "fedora" available? If so where >> may I obtain it? If not, how may I reproduce it? > > The font is a proprietary one, named Bryant2, is not possbile to > redistribute it: > http://www.processtypefoundry.com/typefaces/bryant2/index.html > > I tried to reproduce it by tracing samples at a very high-resolution, > is hard and I am not an expert in fonts. It's probably best not to trace the Bryant font. Mike Langlie did a search this morning and suggested... "I looked and looked, and found some that I thought would be similar, but this is what I narrowed it down to. Still not a great substitute, but it has a few similar qualities. http://www.k-type.com/fontlexia.html " If someone has time, perhaps go through sites like... http://1001freefonts.com/fonts/ and pick out ones that are similar to the one used in the logo? The FAQ on this site says: Q : Are all the fonts on this website free? A : The majority of fonts on this website are freeware, but a small percentage are shareware so if you decide to keep any shareware fonts please register them. Registration information can be found on the readme.txt file attached. Not very knowledgeable about font legal issues...but seems ok to use? Diana From mlanglie at redhat.com Wed Aug 30 19:26:07 2006 From: mlanglie at redhat.com (Mike Langlie) Date: Wed, 30 Aug 2006 12:26:07 -0700 Subject: New to the list - need advice In-Reply-To: <44F5BA65.6010000@redhat.com> References: <1156882855.4003.7.camel@localhost.localdomain> <44F5368C.1050508@nicubunu.ro> <44F5BA65.6010000@redhat.com> Message-ID: <44F5E64F.206@redhat.com> Diana Fong wrote: > Nicu Buculei wrote: >> John Baer wrote: >>> Hello All, >>> >>> New to the list and need advice. >>> >>> 1. Is the font used to create the word "fedora" available? If so where >>> may I obtain it? If not, how may I reproduce it? >> >> The font is a proprietary one, named Bryant2, is not possbile to >> redistribute it: >> http://www.processtypefoundry.com/typefaces/bryant2/index.html >> >> I tried to reproduce it by tracing samples at a very high-resolution, >> is hard and I am not an expert in fonts. > > It's probably best not to trace the Bryant font. > Mike Langlie did a search this morning and suggested... > "I looked and looked, and found some that I thought would be similar, > but this is what I narrowed it down to. Still not a great substitute, > but it has a few similar qualities. > http://www.k-type.com/fontlexia.html " > > If someone has time, perhaps go through sites like... > http://1001freefonts.com/fonts/ and pick out ones that are similar to > the one used in the logo? The FAQ on this site says: > Q : Are all the fonts on this website free? > A : The majority of fonts on this website are freeware, but a small > percentage are shareware so if you decide to keep any shareware fonts > please register them. Registration information can be found on the > readme.txt file attached. > > Not very knowledgeable about font legal issues...but seems ok to use? > > Diana Thanks for posting this, Diana. From my experience talking with font designers and frequenting type design forums, I'd also discourage tracing an existing retail font. It's possibly not legal to distribute the results, and considered disrespectful to the original designer. :: Mike :: From duffy at redhat.com Wed Aug 30 16:29:26 2006 From: duffy at redhat.com (=?ISO-8859-1?Q?M=E1ir=EDn_Duffy?=) Date: Wed, 30 Aug 2006 12:29:26 -0400 Subject: New to the list - need advice In-Reply-To: <44F5BA65.6010000@redhat.com> References: <1156882855.4003.7.camel@localhost.localdomain> <44F5368C.1050508@nicubunu.ro> <44F5BA65.6010000@redhat.com> Message-ID: <44F5BCE6.4090600@redhat.com> Diana Fong wrote: > Nicu Buculei wrote: >> John Baer wrote: >>> 1. Is the font used to create the word "fedora" available? If so where >>> may I obtain it? If not, how may I reproduce it? >> >> The font is a proprietary one, named Bryant2, is not possbile to >> redistribute it: >> http://www.processtypefoundry.com/typefaces/bryant2/index.html >> >> I tried to reproduce it by tracing samples at a very high-resolution, >> is hard and I am not an expert in fonts. John, it really depends what you are trying to use the font for. Are you just trying to develop Fedora logo artwork? If so, you can get a vector version of the Fedora logo including the 'fedora' text. There is a process to do this documented here: http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Logo#head-676bb5dfefa6e0f7c324dde85ebb11223186189c The logo SVG isn't available on the web (or at least shouldn't be) because of trademark issues - we try to limit who has access to it to prevent abuse and risk of losing the trademark. > If someone has time, perhaps go through sites like... > http://1001freefonts.com/fonts/ and pick out ones that are similar to > the one used in the logo? The FAQ on this site says: > Q : Are all the fonts on this website free? > A : The majority of fonts on this website are freeware, but a small > percentage are shareware so if you decide to keep any shareware fonts > please register them. Registration information can be found on the > readme.txt file attached. > > Not very knowledgeable about font legal issues...but seems ok to use? Again this depends on what you're trying to use the font for and the specific font's license. In all cases of doubt it's best to ask the font copyright holder. If you're trying to use the font as a substitute for Bryant in the fedora logo, it would violate the Fedora branding guidelines. ~m From spydrrrrr at gmail.com Wed Aug 30 17:34:31 2006 From: spydrrrrr at gmail.com (spydrrrrr at gmail.com) Date: Wed, 30 Aug 2006 13:34:31 -0400 Subject: New to the list - need advice In-Reply-To: References: <1156882855.4003.7.camel@localhost.localdomain> <44F5368C.1050508@nicubunu.ro> <44F5BE55.8070407@redhat.com> Message-ID: > > Hi Diana, > > I am confused about the whole process of creating or contributin art to > the Fedora project... > So is this a list of things that are in need of work? If so what is the > theme? > > Are there things that need to be developped from scratch? > > Is there something that does not exist that needs to be created? > > It's all very confusing... The reason I ask is that I want to contribute > in a constructive manner... I do not want to simply create stuff that is not > needed... > > thanks... > > > > > On 8/30/06, Diana Fong wrote: > > > > Welcome to Fedora Art > > > > Help to the icon set would definitely be appreciated. > > http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Artwork/EchoDevelopment > > > > There are also other areas of the distro that would benefit from artwork > > > > contribution...the background, log-in, booting, window theming, > > screensaver...etc. The links suggested in the last few days are all > > relevant. =) I guess, just pick something you're interested in. If you > > have questions/ideas, ask/post on the mailing list or on the IRC channel > > > > and if you have mockups, post on the mailing list or fedora wiki. > > > > Currently it's a bit free form but from the emails over the last few > > days, perhaps more defined directions will emerge. > > > > again...Welcome =) > > Diana > > > > > > > > spydrrrrr at gmail.com wrote: > > > Is there a repository of artwork that needs to be worked on? > > > Also what about the recurring graphic with the f inside the infinity > > > symbol... is there a copy of it that we can use to incorporate in > > > other artwork? > > > > > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From duffy at redhat.com Wed Aug 30 17:52:59 2006 From: duffy at redhat.com (=?ISO-8859-1?Q?M=E1ir=EDn_Duffy?=) Date: Wed, 30 Aug 2006 13:52:59 -0400 Subject: New to the list - need advice In-Reply-To: References: <1156882855.4003.7.camel@localhost.localdomain> <44F5368C.1050508@nicubunu.ro> <44F5BE55.8070407@redhat.com> Message-ID: <44F5D07B.9090609@redhat.com> Hi Spydrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrr ;) spydrrrrr at gmail.com wrote: > I am confused about the whole process of creating or contributin art > to the Fedora project... > So is this a list of things that are in need of work? If so what is > the theme? > > Are there things that need to be developped from scratch? > > Is there something that does not exist that needs to be created? > > It's all very confusing... The reason I ask is that I want to > contribute in a constructive manner... I do not want to simply > create stuff that is not needed... I hear you on that. :-/ To spare you the heartache I have experienced, out of the projects below I would recommend sticking to contributing to the Echo icon theme. == Icon Work == http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Artwork/EchoDevelopment Basically, here is how that works: if an icon is missing and nobody has claimed it (if its claimed it'll be colored in differently) then claim it by changing the BG color of the table row and start working on it, and upload it to that wiki page and send a note to the list when you're done. == Theme Artwork Work == I had been working on a DNA theme for FC 6 (http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Artwork/ThemeSubmissions/DNATheme) and I could use help in finishing this (There are slots for the pieces that are missing on the page) but I'm pretty much stuck on getting it actually in the distro and have yet to receive any information from those in power on how I could do this and it's pretty much too late for FC6 now. Maybe for FC7 or someday. If you'd like to help me work on this for FC 7 let me know. I've tried to archive other people's contributions here: http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Artwork/ThemeSubmissions So you can get an idea of what other people are working on and perhaps build off their ideas for a new theme. (What makes up a theme? I wrote up an overview with some implementation details here: http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Artwork/ThemingOverview) == GTK Theme == Another thing you could do if you wanted would be to review different GTK themes and try to find a nice one or one that could be modified for a fedora default (again, would be FC7 at this point.) I tried doing this with the GentleGnome theme (http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Artwork/ThemeConcepts) but it seems like a lot of people just don't like it. :( You could take Gentle Gnome and survey people about it, see what they like and don't like and try to address the issues they bring up, or try a different theme entirely. Or even just mock up one and see if you can rally some devels to help you implement it (depending I'd be willing to help implement some hot mocks as a GTK theme :) ) == Art Repository Project == We're in dire need of a better artwork repository than the wiki. There are some efforts being made to spec out our own system (would need to be written in python) similar to art.gnome.org for this purpose. If this is something you'd be interested in let me know and I can get you in touch with the right people. == Fedora Marketing Work == One thing we have not done yet as a team is approach the Fedora marketing team and set up a workflow/communication protocol so we can produce graphics for their marketing materials. If creating artwork such as CD covers, webpage banner ads, posters, conference booth banners, etc. appeals to you, starting this setup between our team and theirs would be a welcome and helpful thing. :) ~m From spydrrrrr at gmail.com Wed Aug 30 17:58:11 2006 From: spydrrrrr at gmail.com (spydrrrrr at gmail.com) Date: Wed, 30 Aug 2006 13:58:11 -0400 Subject: New to the list - need advice In-Reply-To: <44F5D07B.9090609@redhat.com> References: <1156882855.4003.7.camel@localhost.localdomain> <44F5368C.1050508@nicubunu.ro> <44F5BE55.8070407@redhat.com> <44F5D07B.9090609@redhat.com> Message-ID: Wow... Thanks for the info... I had a couple of questions On 8/30/06, M?ir?n Duffy wrote: > > Basically, here is how that works: if an icon is missing and nobody has > claimed it (if its claimed it'll be colored in differently) then claim > it by changing the BG color of the table row and start working on it, > and upload it to that wiki page and send a note to the list when you're > done. Who gives me the rights to chage the background color? == Theme Artwork Work == > > I had been working on a DNA theme for FC 6 > (http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Artwork/ThemeSubmissions/DNATheme) and I > could use help in finishing this (There are slots for the pieces that > are missing on the page) but I'm pretty much stuck on getting it > actually in the distro and have yet to receive any information from > those in power on how I could do this and it's pretty much too late for > FC6 now. Maybe for FC7 or someday. If you'd like to help me work on this > for FC 7 let me know. How do you even get it to the point of creating the theme? I mean do you just create a theme and send it to the list? How do you know if it is even needed? I guess my basic question is how do you know what is needed? -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From redgoat at gmail.com Wed Aug 30 18:00:50 2006 From: redgoat at gmail.com (jason jennings) Date: Wed, 30 Aug 2006 11:00:50 -0700 Subject: New to the list - need advice In-Reply-To: References: <1156882855.4003.7.camel@localhost.localdomain> <44F5368C.1050508@nicubunu.ro> <44F5BE55.8070407@redhat.com> <44F5D07B.9090609@redhat.com> Message-ID: <6a1a2e1d0608301100r1c22c18axe70e2b752698a37b@mail.gmail.com> how do I get off the list? On 8/30/06, spydrrrrr at gmail.com wrote: > > Wow... Thanks for the info... > > I had a couple of questions > > On 8/30/06, M?ir?n Duffy wrote: > > > > Basically, here is how that works: if an icon is missing and nobody has > > claimed it (if its claimed it'll be colored in differently) then claim > > it by changing the BG color of the table row and start working on it, > > and upload it to that wiki page and send a note to the list when you're > > done. > > > Who gives me the rights to chage the background color? > > == Theme Artwork Work == > > > > I had been working on a DNA theme for FC 6 > > (http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Artwork/ThemeSubmissions/DNATheme) and I > > could use help in finishing this (There are slots for the pieces that > > are missing on the page) but I'm pretty much stuck on getting it > > actually in the distro and have yet to receive any information from > > those in power on how I could do this and it's pretty much too late for > > FC6 now. Maybe for FC7 or someday. If you'd like to help me work on this > > > > for FC 7 let me know. > > > How do you even get it to the point of creating the theme? I mean do you > just create a theme and send it to the list? > How do you know if it is even needed? > > I guess my basic question is how do you know what is needed? > > _______________________________________________ > Fedora-art-list mailing list > Fedora-art-list at redhat.com > http://www.redhat.com/mailman/listinfo/fedora-art-list > > > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From duffy at redhat.com Wed Aug 30 18:08:41 2006 From: duffy at redhat.com (=?ISO-8859-1?Q?M=E1ir=EDn_Duffy?=) Date: Wed, 30 Aug 2006 14:08:41 -0400 Subject: New to the list - need advice In-Reply-To: References: <1156882855.4003.7.camel@localhost.localdomain> <44F5368C.1050508@nicubunu.ro> <44F5BE55.8070407@redhat.com> <44F5D07B.9090609@redhat.com> Message-ID: <44F5D429.7040606@redhat.com> Hi spydrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrr, spydrrrrr at gmail.com wrote: > Wow... Thanks for the info... > > I had a couple of questions > > On 8/30/06, *M?ir?n Duffy* > > wrote: > > Basically, here is how that works: if an icon is missing and nobody has > claimed it (if its claimed it'll be colored in differently) then claim > it by changing the BG color of the table row and start working on it, > and upload it to that wiki page and send a note to the list when you're > done. > > > Who gives me the rights to chage the background color? Instructions on how to do this are outlined on the artwork wiki page: http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Artwork#head-666ef97a22e615ba15f9eeae7e612ffb089d3fbc > > == Theme Artwork Work == > > I had been working on a DNA theme for FC 6 > (http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Artwork/ThemeSubmissions/DNATheme) and I > could use help in finishing this (There are slots for the pieces that > are missing on the page) but I'm pretty much stuck on getting it > actually in the distro and have yet to receive any information from > those in power on how I could do this and it's pretty much too late for > FC6 now. Maybe for FC7 or someday. If you'd like to help me work on > this > for FC 7 let me know. > > > How do you even get it to the point of creating the theme? I mean do you > just create a theme and send it to the list? > How do you know if it is even needed? > > I guess my basic question is how do you know what is needed? The idea is that with each new release of Fedora there's a new theme. For FC5 (and unfortunately FC6 as well) this is going to be the Fedora Bubbles theme. So how do you know it's needed? Because a new release is in the pipeline. ~m From spydrrrrr at gmail.com Wed Aug 30 18:14:59 2006 From: spydrrrrr at gmail.com (spydrrrrr at gmail.com) Date: Wed, 30 Aug 2006 14:14:59 -0400 Subject: New to the list - need advice In-Reply-To: <44F5D429.7040606@redhat.com> References: <1156882855.4003.7.camel@localhost.localdomain> <44F5368C.1050508@nicubunu.ro> <44F5BE55.8070407@redhat.com> <44F5D07B.9090609@redhat.com> <44F5D429.7040606@redhat.com> Message-ID: Thank you VERY much... This is the kind of stuff that should be on the Wiki... :) On 8/30/06, M?ir?n Duffy wrote: > > The idea is that with each new release of Fedora there's a new theme. > For FC5 (and unfortunately FC6 as well) this is going to be the Fedora > Bubbles theme. > > So how do you know it's needed? Because a new release is in the pipeline. > > ~m > > _______________________________________________ > Fedora-art-list mailing list > Fedora-art-list at redhat.com > http://www.redhat.com/mailman/listinfo/fedora-art-list > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From duffy at redhat.com Wed Aug 30 18:19:14 2006 From: duffy at redhat.com (=?ISO-8859-1?Q?M=E1ir=EDn_Duffy?=) Date: Wed, 30 Aug 2006 14:19:14 -0400 Subject: New to the list - need advice In-Reply-To: References: <1156882855.4003.7.camel@localhost.localdomain> <44F5368C.1050508@nicubunu.ro> <44F5BE55.8070407@redhat.com> <44F5D07B.9090609@redhat.com> <44F5D429.7040606@redhat.com> Message-ID: <44F5D6A2.5030403@redhat.com> spydrrrrr at gmail.com wrote: > Thank you VERY much... > > This is the kind of stuff that should be on the Wiki... :) IT is :) but if you'd like it to be clearer feel free to modify and add to the wiki pages :) ~m From spydrrrrr at gmail.com Wed Aug 30 18:37:14 2006 From: spydrrrrr at gmail.com (spydrrrrr at gmail.com) Date: Wed, 30 Aug 2006 14:37:14 -0400 Subject: New to the list - need advice In-Reply-To: <44F5D6A2.5030403@redhat.com> References: <1156882855.4003.7.camel@localhost.localdomain> <44F5BE55.8070407@redhat.com> <44F5D07B.9090609@redhat.com> <44F5D429.7040606@redhat.com> <44F5D6A2.5030403@redhat.com> Message-ID: I think I will... now I have to figure how to modify the wiki pages first :) On 8/30/06, M?ir?n Duffy wrote: > > spydrrrrr at gmail.com wrote: > > Thank you VERY much... > > > > This is the kind of stuff that should be on the Wiki... :) > > IT is :) but if you'd like it to be clearer feel free to modify and add > to the wiki pages :) > > ~m > > _______________________________________________ > Fedora-art-list mailing list > Fedora-art-list at redhat.com > http://www.redhat.com/mailman/listinfo/fedora-art-list > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From spydrrrrr at gmail.com Wed Aug 30 20:38:41 2006 From: spydrrrrr at gmail.com (spydrrrrr at gmail.com) Date: Wed, 30 Aug 2006 16:38:41 -0400 Subject: New to the list - need advice In-Reply-To: <44F5D429.7040606@redhat.com> References: <1156882855.4003.7.camel@localhost.localdomain> <44F5368C.1050508@nicubunu.ro> <44F5BE55.8070407@redhat.com> <44F5D07B.9090609@redhat.com> <44F5D429.7040606@redhat.com> Message-ID: > > > > Who gives me the rights to chage the background color? > > Instructions on how to do this are outlined on the artwork wiki page: > > > http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Artwork#head-666ef97a22e615ba15f9eeae7e612ffb089d3fbc > > I read the Wiki at the page above and I cannot find any instructions on how to modify the Wiki? I really would like to edit the Wiki so all this can me much easier to figure out for new people... Can someone help me out with a link that explains exactly how to modify the wiki? -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From duffy at redhat.com Wed Aug 30 20:41:38 2006 From: duffy at redhat.com (=?ISO-8859-1?Q?M=E1ir=EDn_Duffy?=) Date: Wed, 30 Aug 2006 16:41:38 -0400 Subject: New to the list - need advice In-Reply-To: References: <1156882855.4003.7.camel@localhost.localdomain> <44F5368C.1050508@nicubunu.ro> <44F5BE55.8070407@redhat.com> <44F5D07B.9090609@redhat.com> <44F5D429.7040606@redhat.com> Message-ID: <44F5F802.6040304@redhat.com> spydrrrrr at gmail.com wrote: > > > > > Who gives me the rights to chage the background color? > > Instructions on how to do this are outlined on the artwork wiki page: > > http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Artwork#head-666ef97a22e615ba15f9eeae7e612ffb089d3fbc > > > I read the Wiki at the page above and I cannot find any instructions on > how to modify the Wiki? > I really would like to edit the Wiki so all this can me much easier to > figure out for new people... > > Can someone help me out with a link that explains exactly how to modify > the wiki? If you follow those steps, then you'll be able to log into the wiki and edit pages. ~m From spydrrrrr at gmail.com Wed Aug 30 20:46:32 2006 From: spydrrrrr at gmail.com (spydrrrrr at gmail.com) Date: Wed, 30 Aug 2006 16:46:32 -0400 Subject: New to the list - need advice In-Reply-To: <44F5F802.6040304@redhat.com> References: <1156882855.4003.7.camel@localhost.localdomain> <44F5BE55.8070407@redhat.com> <44F5D07B.9090609@redhat.com> <44F5D429.7040606@redhat.com> <44F5F802.6040304@redhat.com> Message-ID: When I go to link I get the mail Fedora Art page... there I am already signed up on the Account System and I have been added as a contributor... there are not instructions for modifying the wiki this is the only instruction that I can find on the page: "Most submissions will be added to the wiki or through CVS. Ask on the mailing list or IRC if you have questions or would like suggestions" I am really not trying to be stupid here but I am feeling like the Arts project is a club that is not wanting to let other people help...??? On 8/30/06, M?ir?n Duffy wrote: > > spydrrrrr at gmail.com wrote: > > > > > > > > Who gives me the rights to chage the background color? > > > > Instructions on how to do this are outlined on the artwork wiki > page: > > > > > http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Artwork#head-666ef97a22e615ba15f9eeae7e612ffb089d3fbc > > > > > > I read the Wiki at the page above and I cannot find any instructions on > > how to modify the Wiki? > > I really would like to edit the Wiki so all this can me much easier to > > figure out for new people... > > > > Can someone help me out with a link that explains exactly how to modify > > the wiki? > > If you follow those steps, then you'll be able to log into the wiki and > edit pages. > > ~m > > _______________________________________________ > Fedora-art-list mailing list > Fedora-art-list at redhat.com > http://www.redhat.com/mailman/listinfo/fedora-art-list > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From spydrrrrr at gmail.com Wed Aug 30 20:48:16 2006 From: spydrrrrr at gmail.com (spydrrrrr at gmail.com) Date: Wed, 30 Aug 2006 16:48:16 -0400 Subject: New to the list - need advice In-Reply-To: References: <1156882855.4003.7.camel@localhost.localdomain> <44F5BE55.8070407@redhat.com> <44F5D07B.9090609@redhat.com> <44F5D429.7040606@redhat.com> <44F5F802.6040304@redhat.com> Message-ID: Finally... I got this from a nice user on IRC http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/WikiEditing On 8/30/06, spydrrrrr at gmail.com wrote: > > When I go to link I get the mail Fedora Art page... there I am already > signed up on the Account System and I have been added as a contributor... > there are not instructions for modifying the wiki this is the only > instruction that I can find on the page: "Most submissions will be added to > the wiki or through CVS. Ask on the mailing list or IRC if you have > questions or would like suggestions" > > I am really not trying to be stupid here but I am feeling like the Arts > project is a club that is not wanting to let other people help...??? > > > On 8/30/06, M?ir?n Duffy wrote: > > > > spydrrrrr at gmail.com wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > Who gives me the rights to chage the background color? > > > > > > Instructions on how to do this are outlined on the artwork wiki > > page: > > > > > > > > http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Artwork#head-666ef97a22e615ba15f9eeae7e612ffb089d3fbc > > > > > > > > > I read the Wiki at the page above and I cannot find any instructions > > on > > > how to modify the Wiki? > > > I really would like to edit the Wiki so all this can me much easier to > > > figure out for new people... > > > > > > Can someone help me out with a link that explains exactly how to > > modify > > > the wiki? > > > > If you follow those steps, then you'll be able to log into the wiki and > > edit pages. > > > > ~m > > > > _______________________________________________ > > Fedora-art-list mailing list > > Fedora-art-list at redhat.com > > http://www.redhat.com/mailman/listinfo/fedora-art-list > > > > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From sdl.web at gmail.com Wed Aug 30 20:50:12 2006 From: sdl.web at gmail.com (Leon) Date: Wed, 30 Aug 2006 21:50:12 +0100 Subject: Echo icon theme package Message-ID: Dear all, You can download from: http://people.redhat.com/dfong/icons/echo_0.2.tar This Echo icon theme as ready to use with kde and gnome, is built on 2006-08-29. As you can see from EchoDevelopment?, a lot of icons have been added. The small icons (16x16, 24x24) are not as complete as the large ones and thus some of them are actually a re-sized version of the corresponding large one, which you can tell from the perspective. This is built using icon-naming-utils-0.8.1. So if an icon is not in tango spec it's not included. Please provide feedback to our artists! Footnotes: ? http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Artwork/EchoDevelopment -- Leon From duffy at redhat.com Wed Aug 30 20:55:12 2006 From: duffy at redhat.com (=?ISO-8859-1?Q?M=E1ir=EDn_Duffy?=) Date: Wed, 30 Aug 2006 16:55:12 -0400 Subject: New to the list - need advice In-Reply-To: References: <1156882855.4003.7.camel@localhost.localdomain> <44F5BE55.8070407@redhat.com> <44F5D07B.9090609@redhat.com> <44F5D429.7040606@redhat.com> <44F5F802.6040304@redhat.com> Message-ID: <44F5FB30.9070404@redhat.com> Hi spydrrrrrrrrrrr! spydrrrrr at gmail.com wrote: > When I go to link I get the mail Fedora Art page... there I am already > signed up on the Account System and I have been added as a > contributor... there are not instructions for modifying the wiki this is > the only instruction that I can find on the page: "Most submissions will > be added to the wiki or through CVS. Ask on the mailing list or IRC if > you have questions or would like suggestions" Ah, there is http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/WikiEditing too, which is listed in the content area at the bottom of the first page of fedoraproject.org (I admit not easy to find!) We should definitely be linking to that guide as well in the Art team - specific instructions and we're not currently. > I am really not trying to be stupid here but I am feeling like the Arts > project is a club that is not wanting to let other people help...??? LOL I know the feeling but that's totally not the case. We need you as an art team member! Maybe this is a case of Moinmoin's interface sucking? (Because it does.) It sounds like we could certainly use post-account wiki modification & page creation tutorial with screenshots, let's try to debug your specific issue first. Let's see... So #1, are you logged into the fedoraproject.org wiki? If not... hmm I can't find a login page because I can't actually log out myself :) No logout button. Wow, that's crazy. So let's assume you're logged in and let me know if you're not. :) #2, go to http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Artwork. What do you see? Here is what I see: http://people.redhat.com/duffy/blah/wiki-edit.png I highlighted the edit button you need to use if you want to edit a page. Are you clicking on that edit button and getting an error? What's going on? Thanks, ~m From spydrrrrr at gmail.com Wed Aug 30 20:59:24 2006 From: spydrrrrr at gmail.com (spydrrrrr at gmail.com) Date: Wed, 30 Aug 2006 16:59:24 -0400 Subject: This is too hard...??? Message-ID: To all, I am really trying hard to understand how best to contribute... This has been and still is very frustrating... and I might just give up on all of it... Once I have Wiki access I would truly like to know what needs to be worked on... I got some information from *M?ir?n Duffy* but still it is not very clear... I am really trying hard to understand all this... -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From duffy at redhat.com Wed Aug 30 21:03:37 2006 From: duffy at redhat.com (=?ISO-8859-1?Q?M=E1ir=EDn_Duffy?=) Date: Wed, 30 Aug 2006 17:03:37 -0400 Subject: This is too hard...??? In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <44F5FD29.4010101@redhat.com> Hi Spydrrrrrrr, spydrrrrr at gmail.com wrote: > To all, > > I am really trying hard to understand how best to contribute... > > This has been and still is very frustrating... and I might just give up > on all of it... > > Once I have Wiki access I would truly like to know what needs to be > worked on... > > I got some information from *M?ir?n Duffy* but still it is not very > clear... > > I am really trying hard to understand all this... It might be easier if we try this over chat rather than email? Do you have time in maybe an hour (6 pm EST) to chat on IRC? Are you on freenode? Can you join #fedora-art? My nick is mizmo. Thanks, ~m From sdl.web at gmail.com Wed Aug 30 21:05:54 2006 From: sdl.web at gmail.com (Leon) Date: Wed, 30 Aug 2006 22:05:54 +0100 Subject: New to the list - need advice References: <1156882855.4003.7.camel@localhost.localdomain> <44F5BE55.8070407@redhat.com> <44F5D07B.9090609@redhat.com> <44F5D429.7040606@redhat.com> <44F5F802.6040304@redhat.com> Message-ID: On 30/08/06, spydrrrrr-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w wrote: > Finally... I got this from a nice user on IRC Great! You are not alone. You have just proved fedoraproject.org has usability issues. I personally feel the website needs an overhaul. I visit it every day and I only visit two pages most of the time: people and news feeds. > > http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/WikiEditing > > On 8/30/06, spydrrrrr at gmail.com < > spydrrrrr at gmail.com> wrote: > > When I go to link I get the mail Fedora Art page... there I am already > signed up on the Account System and I have been added as a contributor... > there are not instructions for modifying the wiki this is the only > instruction that I can find on the page: "Most submissions will be added to > the wiki or through CVS. Ask on the mailing list or IRC if you have > questions or would like suggestions" > > I am really not trying to be stupid here but I am feeling like the Arts > project is a club that is not wanting to let other people help...??? > > On 8/30/06, M?ir?n Duffy wrote: > > spydrrrrr at gmail.com wrote: > > > > > > > > Who gives me the rights to chage the background color? > > > > Instructions on how to do this are outlined on the artwork wiki > page: > > > > http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Artwork# > head-666ef97a22e615ba15f9eeae7e612ffb089d3fbc > > > > > > I read the Wiki at the page above and I cannot find any instructions > on > > how to modify the Wiki? > > I really would like to edit the Wiki so all this can me much easier > to > > figure out for new people... > > > > Can someone help me out with a link that explains exactly how to > modify > > the wiki? > > If you follow those steps, then you'll be able to log into the wiki and > edit pages. > > ~m > > _______________________________________________ > Fedora-art-list mailing list > Fedora-art-list at redhat.com > http://www.redhat.com/mailman/listinfo/fedora-art-list > > _______________________________________________ > Fedora-art-list mailing list > Fedora-art-list at redhat.com > http://www.redhat.com/mailman/listinfo/fedora-art-list -- Leon From thomas.canniot at laposte.net Wed Aug 30 22:20:58 2006 From: thomas.canniot at laposte.net (Thomas Canniot) Date: Thu, 31 Aug 2006 00:20:58 +0200 Subject: Echo icon theme package In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <1156976458.31667.6.camel@MrTomLinux.workstation> Le mercredi 30 ao?t 2006 ? 21:50 +0100, Leon a ?crit : > Dear all, > > You can download from: > > http://people.redhat.com/dfong/icons/echo_0.2.tar > > > This Echo icon theme as ready to use with kde and gnome, is built on > 2006-08-29. As you can see from EchoDevelopment?, a lot of icons have > been added. > > The small icons (16x16, 24x24) are not as complete as the large ones > and thus some of them are actually a re-sized version of the > corresponding large one, which you can tell from the perspective. > > This is built using icon-naming-utils-0.8.1. So if an icon is not in > tango spec it's not included. > > Please provide feedback to our artists! > > Footnotes: > ? http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Artwork/EchoDevelopment I just downloaded it and installed it. I found it very polished already, nice work. However, in Evolution, i think that in the "reply", "reply to all", "forward" and the "send/receive" icon button should have bigger arrows, so as to be able to know at first sight to which direction the arrow is pointing to. I can add as well that the guys on the "reply to all" icon are not that visible enough as well. I provide feedbacks in other mails if I have something to add. Thanks -- Thomas Canniot http://www.fedoraproject.org/wiki/ThomasCanniot -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: signature.asc Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 189 bytes Desc: Ceci est une partie de message num?riquement sign?e URL: From johnp at redhat.com Thu Aug 31 00:36:37 2006 From: johnp at redhat.com (John (J5) Palmieri) Date: Wed, 30 Aug 2006 20:36:37 -0400 Subject: More icon theme goodness Message-ID: <1156984598.29083.142.camel@remedyz.boston.redhat.com> Hello all. First let me introduce myself as the current maintainer of the art packages at Red Hat. I created the initial script for importing the icons from the wiki. I now have some newer tools to make the Echo theme easier to test and manage. They are still pretty rough around the edges since I have been developing them for specific tasks but I hope to get a git repo up in the next few days (depending on how long the Fedora ticketing service is down) so people can fix things up with ease if they so choose. The first app is the echo_pull app which pulls the icons from the wiki. It has been upgraded to incorporate Leon's script for creating the legacy links and can also use the link.xml file output from the next tool to create even more coverage from existing icons. It also outputs a dynamically generated index.theme file and places all of the icons in a directory structure that can then be dumped in your ~/.icons directory for fast testing. The second app, gtk-icon-coverage-check is a general theme coverage analyzer that in principle could be used to analyze coverage over any theme though some of the code may be geared towards echo. It gives a two pane view of icons which can be filtered on a couple of criteria. You can then go and use the link button to link an icon from the current theme over an icon from the inherited themes. Hitting the save button outputs a link.xml file that can be used with the echo_pull app. You can find these apps at http://people.redhat.com/johnp/files/echo/ right now. I have also put up an Echo theme I created today. Diana, can you add that to the wiki? The analyzer tool is great. Going through it I noticed a lot of "low hanging fruit" for those who want to make quick contributions. A lot of the icons have already been created and just need to be mixed and matched to create new icons (like using the search icon on a folder to create a search folder icon). I think if we can finish what is on the wiki and bust out these composite icons we will have excellent coverage going forward. -- John (J5) Palmieri From baerjj at gmail.com Thu Aug 31 00:43:53 2006 From: baerjj at gmail.com (John Baer) Date: Wed, 30 Aug 2006 20:43:53 -0400 Subject: First observations In-Reply-To: <20060830065621.8569373127@hormel.redhat.com> References: <20060830065621.8569373127@hormel.redhat.com> Message-ID: <1156985033.2678.45.camel@localhost.localdomain> All, Thank you for your comments. Just a couple of first observations. Thanks Nicu for the info. I took a look at the link but the "a" in the Bryant2 font did not appear to be the same as the "a" in the fedora logo (?). > From: Nicu Buculei > The font is a proprietary one, named Bryant2, is not possbile to > redistribute it: > http://www.processtypefoundry.com/typefaces/bryant2/index.html > I see the fedora logo is trade marked and there is a long list of legal precautions attached as a result. Normally a trade marked logo is to be presented without alterations although I did not find examples to be used in new art work (?). IMHO the intent of any open source project is to foster inclusion. In the case of art work, encourage artistic submissions. I find myself with the desire to help but I can't get started. Here are the obstacles I see. 1) If bryant2 is the official fedora font, doesn't its $50 to $350 price place an unfair burden on those who wish to contribute? 2) If I don't use the official font will I be at odds with the trade mark or the community? Any guidance here would be appreciated. John From baerjj at gmail.com Thu Aug 31 01:37:00 2006 From: baerjj at gmail.com (John Baer) Date: Wed, 30 Aug 2006 21:37:00 -0400 Subject: Spoke too soon In-Reply-To: <20060830175830.EC8297343F@hormel.redhat.com> References: <20060830175830.EC8297343F@hormel.redhat.com> Message-ID: <1156988220.6590.8.camel@localhost.localdomain> Posted my first impressions too soon ... I just received a batch of new emails with a wealth of information. I will need some time to review ... Thanks everyone, John From dfong at redhat.com Thu Aug 31 03:14:58 2006 From: dfong at redhat.com (Diana Fong) Date: Wed, 30 Aug 2006 23:14:58 -0400 Subject: Echo icon theme package In-Reply-To: <1156976458.31667.6.camel@MrTomLinux.workstation> References: <1156976458.31667.6.camel@MrTomLinux.workstation> Message-ID: <44F65432.6030805@redhat.com> Thomas Canniot wrote: > Le mercredi 30 ao?t 2006 ? 21:50 +0100, Leon a ?crit : > >> Dear all, >> >> You can download from: >> >> http://people.redhat.com/dfong/icons/echo_0.2.tar >> >> >> This Echo icon theme as ready to use with kde and gnome, is built on >> 2006-08-29. As you can see from EchoDevelopment?, a lot of icons have >> been added. >> >> > > I just downloaded it and installed it. I found it very polished already, > nice work. > However, in Evolution, i think that in the "reply", "reply to all", > "forward" and the "send/receive" icon button should have bigger arrows, > so as to be able to know at first sight to which direction the arrow is > pointing to. I can add as well that the guys on the "reply to all" icon > are not that visible enough as well. > > I provide feedbacks in other mails if I have something to add. > > Thanks Thanks again, Leon, for putting this into a package. Thomas...Great suggestions. I've actually got a few similar feedback about the mail icons. I'll try to make the arrows larger...or maybe eliminate the "letter" and just have the arrows. Within the context of a mail client, the letter is probably redundant. Thanks guys... Diana From dfong at redhat.com Thu Aug 31 03:36:29 2006 From: dfong at redhat.com (Diana Fong) Date: Wed, 30 Aug 2006 23:36:29 -0400 Subject: More icon theme goodness In-Reply-To: <1156984598.29083.142.camel@remedyz.boston.redhat.com> References: <1156984598.29083.142.camel@remedyz.boston.redhat.com> Message-ID: <44F6593D.6030700@redhat.com> Woot! Two in one day. John (J5) Palmieri wrote: > You can find these apps at http://people.redhat.com/johnp/files/echo/ > right now. I have also put up an Echo theme I created today. Diana, > can you add that to the wiki? > Done. > The analyzer tool is great. Going through it I noticed a lot of "low > hanging fruit" for those who want to make quick contributions. A lot of > the icons have already been created and just need to be mixed and > matched to create new icons (like using the search icon on a folder to > create a search folder icon). I think if we can finish what is on the > wiki and bust out these composite icons we will have excellent coverage > going forward. > The analyzer tool _is_ pretty neat. Check it out. =) It gives you a better sense of what's completed and how many more still need to be created...in the context of what makes up the desktop well beyond the ones you see even in the Tango set. Really quite cool...Thanks J5. Diana From nicu_fedora at nicubunu.ro Thu Aug 31 05:30:06 2006 From: nicu_fedora at nicubunu.ro (Nicu Buculei) Date: Thu, 31 Aug 2006 08:30:06 +0300 Subject: First observations In-Reply-To: <1156985033.2678.45.camel@localhost.localdomain> References: <20060830065621.8569373127@hormel.redhat.com> <1156985033.2678.45.camel@localhost.localdomain> Message-ID: <44F673DE.3010407@nicubunu.ro> John Baer wrote: > All, > > Thank you for your comments. Just a couple of first observations. > > Thanks Nicu for the info. I took a look at the link but the "a" in the > Bryant2 font did not appear to be the same as the "a" in the fedora logo > (?). There are more variations, I think it is "Bryant2 Medium Alternate No. 2" > > Here are the obstacles I see. > > 1) If bryant2 is the official fedora font, doesn't its $50 to $350 price > place an unfair burden on those who wish to contribute? At least for me the price is a stopper. > 2) If I don't use the official font will I be at odds with the trade > mark or the community? Yes, using another font is a trademark violation. -- nicu Cool Fedora wallpapers: http://fedora.nicubunu.ro/wallpapers/ Open Clip Art Library: http://www.openclipart.org my Fedora stuff: http://fedora.nicubunu.ro From nicu_fedora at nicubunu.ro Thu Aug 31 05:36:45 2006 From: nicu_fedora at nicubunu.ro (Nicu Buculei) Date: Thu, 31 Aug 2006 08:36:45 +0300 Subject: New to the list - need advice In-Reply-To: <44F5D07B.9090609@redhat.com> References: <1156882855.4003.7.camel@localhost.localdomain> <44F5368C.1050508@nicubunu.ro> <44F5BE55.8070407@redhat.com> <44F5D07B.9090609@redhat.com> Message-ID: <44F6756D.7090608@nicubunu.ro> M?ir?n Duffy wrote: > > == Art Repository Project == > > We're in dire need of a better artwork repository than the wiki. There > are some efforts being made to spec out our own system (would need to be > written in python) similar to art.gnome.org for this purpose. If this is > something you'd be interested in let me know and I can get you in touch > with the right people. I have a secret plan: I read on the Fedora-Music list there is a plan to install ccHost [1]: "INSTALL CCHOST IN RH COLO (lmacken). We want to learn a lot more about the award-winning ccHost application, especially as a potential backend for people using Fedora (or one day OLPC) to collaborate on musical projects." So having ccHost already installed for music, I think it will be easy to persuade the greater powers to allow its usage for graphics too (from my experience in using ccHost at the Open Clip Art Library, it is a very good tool for this task). Ups! My mistake... I just revealed my secret plan :p [1] https://www.redhat.com/archives/fedora-music-list/2006-August/msg00022.html -- nicu Cool Fedora wallpapers: http://fedora.nicubunu.ro/wallpapers/ Open Clip Art Library: http://www.openclipart.org my Fedora stuff: http://fedora.nicubunu.ro From dfong at redhat.com Thu Aug 31 05:53:28 2006 From: dfong at redhat.com (Diana Fong) Date: Thu, 31 Aug 2006 01:53:28 -0400 Subject: Echo Update Message-ID: <44F67958.9070804@redhat.com> There's been some question as to whether Echo should be included in FC6. I was told this afternoon that Echo will not be the default icon theme in FC6. While we've made a lot of progress in the last four weeks, the coverage is still lacking and almost all of the 16x16 (+many of the 24x24) versions are still missing. It will, however, be included in Extras for those that are interested. A HUGE THANK YOU to everyone that's contributed to the Echo project...in graphics, code, and/or feedback. It's progressed so much since I sent my first email about the wiki...a mere 27 days ago. From my 75 icons, it's grown to well over 200. Yeay! Work will continue on the icon theme...now aiming for the next release. Diana From luya_tfz at thefinalzone.com Thu Aug 31 07:20:56 2006 From: luya_tfz at thefinalzone.com (luya_tfz at thefinalzone.com) Date: Thu, 31 Aug 2006 00:20:56 -0700 Subject: Echo Update Message-ID: <20060831002056.rb8ehgzh94gss8ss@64.94.117.129> > There's been some question as to whether Echo should be included in > FC6. I was >told this afternoon that Echo will not be the default > icon theme in FC6. While >we've made a lot of progress in the last > four weeks, the coverage is still lacking >and almost all of the > 16x16 (+many of the 24x24) versions are still missing. It >will, > however, be included in Extras for those that are interested. > > A HUGE THANK YOU to everyone that's contributed to the Echo > project...in graphics, >code, and/or feedback. It's progressed so > much since I sent my first email about >the wiki...a mere 27 days > ago. From my 75 icons, it's grown to well over 200. >Yeay! > > Work will continue on the icon theme...now aiming for the next release. > > Diana I am really glad echo theme will be on Extras repository so we can get feedback and tune the icons as well. Since you started the project, there are in total six artists working hand to hand. We still have work to do and we can complete Echo. From baerjj at gmail.com Thu Aug 31 10:25:25 2006 From: baerjj at gmail.com (John Baer) Date: Thu, 31 Aug 2006 06:25:25 -0400 Subject: CLA Troubles In-Reply-To: <20060830065621.8569373127@hormel.redhat.com> References: <20060830065621.8569373127@hormel.redhat.com> Message-ID: <1157019925.2938.4.camel@localhost.localdomain> I'm trying to work through setting up an Account and I am having difficulties. When I click the following link Request the Contributor License Agreement on this page http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Infrastructure/AccountSystem/CLAHowTo?highlight=%28CLAHowTo%29 I receive a "Bad Gateway" error page. Is this the correct page? John From nicu_fedora at nicubunu.ro Thu Aug 31 11:16:08 2006 From: nicu_fedora at nicubunu.ro (Nicu Buculei) Date: Thu, 31 Aug 2006 14:16:08 +0300 Subject: CLA Troubles In-Reply-To: <1157019925.2938.4.camel@localhost.localdomain> References: <20060830065621.8569373127@hormel.redhat.com> <1157019925.2938.4.camel@localhost.localdomain> Message-ID: <44F6C4F8.80403@nicubunu.ro> John Baer wrote: > I'm trying to work through setting up an Account and I am having > difficulties. > > When I click the following link Request the Contributor License > Agreement on this page > > http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Infrastructure/AccountSystem/CLAHowTo?highlight=%28CLAHowTo%29 > > I receive a "Bad Gateway" error page. I suspect this is the cause: https://www.redhat.com/archives/fedora-devel-list/2006-August/msg01205.html Wait a little and try again -- nicu Cool Fedora wallpapers: http://fedora.nicubunu.ro/wallpapers/ Open Clip Art Library: http://www.openclipart.org my Fedora stuff: http://fedora.nicubunu.ro From duffy at redhat.com Thu Aug 31 13:22:09 2006 From: duffy at redhat.com (=?ISO-8859-1?Q?M=E1ir=EDn_Duffy?=) Date: Thu, 31 Aug 2006 09:22:09 -0400 Subject: First observations In-Reply-To: <1156985033.2678.45.camel@localhost.localdomain> References: <20060830065621.8569373127@hormel.redhat.com> <1156985033.2678.45.camel@localhost.localdomain> Message-ID: <44F6E281.1060206@redhat.com> Hi John, >> From: Nicu Buculei > >> The font is a proprietary one, named Bryant2, is not possbile to >> redistribute it: >> http://www.processtypefoundry.com/typefaces/bryant2/index.html >> > > I see the fedora logo is trade marked and there is a long list of legal > precautions attached as a result. Normally a trade marked logo is to be > presented without alterations although I did not find examples to be > used in new art work (?). > > IMHO the intent of any open source project is to foster inclusion. In > the case of art work, encourage artistic submissions. > > I find myself with the desire to help but I can't get started. > > Here are the obstacles I see. > > 1) If bryant2 is the official fedora font, doesn't its $50 to $350 price > place an unfair burden on those who wish to contribute? > > 2) If I don't use the official font will I be at odds with the trade > mark or the community? > > Any guidance here would be appreciated. I kind of have to ask again, what exactly are you trying to do with the font? Because it's really hard to answer your questions without knowing what it is you are trying to do. If you simply want to make Fedora logo artwork, you can go here: http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Logo#head-676bb5dfefa6e0f7c324dde85ebb11223186189c as I mentioned before and receive the vector artwork for the Fedora logo. From that you can create artwork incorporating the logo. You *do not* need to pay a licensing fee on the font and you *do not* need the actual font as the licensing fee has already been paid for usage of the font in the fedora logo, and we provide the vector version of the logo so there is no need for art contributors to buy/use the bryant2 font. You shouldn't modify the Fedora logo. So there's no need to have the font. You can just use the vector outlines that we provide. Thanks, ~m From duffy at redhat.com Thu Aug 31 18:37:59 2006 From: duffy at redhat.com (=?ISO-8859-1?Q?M=E1ir=EDn_Duffy?=) Date: Thu, 31 Aug 2006 14:37:59 -0400 Subject: Help with New Default Theme for FC 6 and the plan for FC7+ Message-ID: <44F72C87.5010405@redhat.com> Hi, So Rahul brought up a discussion about the default theme artwork for FC6, which resulted in some discussions between various folks in Fedora, which basically led to the following: FEDORA CORE SIX THEME ===================== We can have a new theme in FC6, but we've got to get it in by next Tuesday (September 5) which is the test 3 freeze. After it gets in of course we can fix bugs and whatnot but it should really be the best it can possibly be for test 3. Since this is really short notice Diana and I decided in #fedora-art that we'd try to go with the most complete theme which is the DNA theme [1] and also try to work with the c6re logo since it's slated to be used as the banner for the release [2]. The strand SVG artwork is also at my deviant art page [3]. Neither of these have received particularly negative feedback and a lot of positive feedback so it seems relatively low-risk to go with them. So, basically we're trying to put some stuff together in a flurry, and we'd love it if you could join us in #fedora-art (since IRC is a bit quicker than email.) Please feel free to modify any of the artwork to help us complete the bits we need for a default theme. Feedback and critique is as always encouraged. As per Bill Nottingham's email to fedora-devel-list [4], the following is what we're looking to have: - GDM theme - we already have this but can stand to have some graphical modifications. It needs to keep same layout though so we don't have to modify the GDM theme markup too heavily. - GNOME/KDE splash - GRUB splash - syslinux splash ("Anaconda Prompt Screen" on the themeing overview) - anaconda artwork - firstboot artwork - RHGB splash - screensaver lock - (optional) GTK theme - (optional) icon theme Screenshots of what these look like are available on the Fedora Artwork wiki themeing overview page [5]. [1] http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Artwork/ThemeSubmissions/DNATheme [2] http://www.deviantart.com/deviation/37918014/ [3] http://www.deviantart.com/view/37508168/ [4] https://www.redhat.com/archives/fedora-devel-list/2006-August/msg01201.html [5] http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Artwork/ThemingOverview FEDORA CORE 7 AND BEYOND ======================== Since there really was no formal process in place to get community artwork contributions into Fedora for FC6, we're kind of doing this all last-minute. In the future, we'd like to work on having a more formal process by which people can submit concepts up until a certain date, full theme mockups up until a certain date, and then an advisory board of some sort could be in place to make a decision on which theme actually gets in. This is all still nebulous and cloudy at this point but once we get through FC6 I hope this is something we can all work together on to ensure that community artwork will be a part of Fedora in the future! Thanks, ~m From duffy at redhat.com Thu Aug 31 18:45:16 2006 From: duffy at redhat.com (=?ISO-8859-1?Q?M=E1ir=EDn_Duffy?=) Date: Thu, 31 Aug 2006 14:45:16 -0400 Subject: Help with New Default Theme for FC 6 and the plan for FC7+ In-Reply-To: <44F72C87.5010405@redhat.com> References: <44F72C87.5010405@redhat.com> Message-ID: <44F72E3C.3090907@redhat.com> Here's the wiki page to work on the DNA theme: http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Artwork/ThemeSubmissions/FC6DNATheme Here's the wiki page to wrok on the c6re theme: http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Artwork/ThemeSubmissions/FC6c6reTheme ~m From iamseawolf at gmail.com Thu Aug 31 20:46:59 2006 From: iamseawolf at gmail.com (seawolf) Date: Thu, 31 Aug 2006 21:46:59 +0100 Subject: Help with New Default Theme for FC 6 and the plan for FC7+ In-Reply-To: <44F72E3C.3090907@redhat.com> References: <44F72C87.5010405@redhat.com> <44F72E3C.3090907@redhat.com> Message-ID: <9c3bfa1d0608311346p5624232dsdc5376ad8575372c@mail.gmail.com> On 31/08/06, M?ir?n Duffy wrote: > Here's the wiki page to work on the DNA theme: > http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Artwork/ThemeSubmissions/FC6DNATheme > > Here's the wiki page to wrok on the c6re theme: > http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Artwork/ThemeSubmissions/FC6c6reTheme > They're the wrong way round! The links and titles don't match up to the content, a rename and tidy about should sort it. D'oh. As a side note, I'll sitck the 6 and whatnot on the splashes I've done (yay) to dib them on that list. I'm happy with my KDE ones (http://www.deviantart.com/deviation/38334032/) and I'll knock the GNOME one together (it'll be... umm... basic) since I only found the FC5 one today! I can see what you mean with the FC7+ part however one point I would make is having dates for full theme subs etc. would require a heck of a lot more contributions from those who haven't yet. That said, having this organisation will this will make it easier for people to do so. After FC6 is out, I think we could have a cooling period when it is being sorted with no submissions as that might be easier than have bits coming in then updates etc. whilst trying to get a backbone to the whole thing. ./Ben -- ..// seawolf //.. Ben Arnold e-mail / msn / icq / yahoo iamseawolf (at) gmail (dot) com http://clik.to/seawolfsanctuary fedora core : artwork GnuPG Available - ask me! From iamseawolf at gmail.com Thu Aug 31 20:50:06 2006 From: iamseawolf at gmail.com (seawolf) Date: Thu, 31 Aug 2006 21:50:06 +0100 Subject: User Presence Icons Message-ID: <9c3bfa1d0608311350s2afe20d8xda6958f77cc54aa@mail.gmail.com> I've done some of the Echo icons, more specifically user-online, -offline, -away and -idle. The two versions are on dA at: http://www.deviantart.com/deviation/39020411/ and (my preference) http://www.deviantart.com/deviation/39020573/ May put some faces or something on them after I tidy the other splashes. ./Ben -- ..// seawolf //.. Ben Arnold e-mail / msn / icq / yahoo iamseawolf (at) gmail (dot) com http://clik.to/seawolfsanctuary fedora core : artwork GnuPG Available - ask me! From sundaram at fedoraproject.org Thu Aug 31 21:13:26 2006 From: sundaram at fedoraproject.org (Rahul) Date: Fri, 01 Sep 2006 02:43:26 +0530 Subject: Help with New Default Theme for FC 6 and the plan for FC7+ In-Reply-To: <44F72C87.5010405@redhat.com> References: <44F72C87.5010405@redhat.com> Message-ID: <44F750F6.9060901@fedoraproject.org> M?ir?n Duffy wrote: > FEDORA CORE 7 AND BEYOND > ======================== > > Since there really was no formal process in place to get community > artwork contributions into Fedora for FC6, we're kind of doing this all > last-minute. In the future, we'd like to work on having a more formal > process by which people can submit concepts up until a certain date, > full theme mockups up until a certain date, and then an advisory board > of some sort could be in place to make a decision on which theme > actually gets in. > > This is all still nebulous and cloudy at this point but once we get > through FC6 I hope this is something we can all work together on to > ensure that community artwork will be a part of Fedora in the future! > Admittedly the (non existent) process has resulted in confusion but I didnt realise that there was a problem in getting artwork into the distribution. If have major issues in governance, it would help to highlight issues earlier in the development cycle so that we dont have to rush things in the last minute. From FC7 onwards, the freeze for all changes including new artwork would be before the test2 releases and we would define a process for exceptions artwork people would need to follow along with the rest of the developers. We still need to discuss the process of selecting one particular theme amoung several submissions that usually turn up. That is something the people involved here need to figure out. I dont want the board to micro manage. We are not artists unlike the people here. If you are using the logo in the artwork, please submit it to the board for approval. The logo is part of our Fedora trademark and we need to legally protect it or risk losing it. We have been discussing using more freely licensed alternative logos among other things since the current situation is obviously not a healthy one. Thanks Rahul From dfong at redhat.com Thu Aug 31 21:32:39 2006 From: dfong at redhat.com (Diana Fong) Date: Thu, 31 Aug 2006 17:32:39 -0400 Subject: Help with New Default Theme for FC 6 and the plan for FC7+ In-Reply-To: <44F72E3C.3090907@redhat.com> References: <44F72C87.5010405@redhat.com> <44F72E3C.3090907@redhat.com> Message-ID: <44F75577.8010302@redhat.com> Hi all... Today I will be ...experimenting... 1. trying out some variations with just the c6re image + fedora logo. 2. and testing out a few styles for the DNA strands 3. if I have time, I might try combining the two elements as shown in M?ir?n's banner to see how well it might work in other screen (like the log-in and whatnot). My thoughts right now is that the combination might make the screen look too busy and crowded...but ya never know. I will be posting them here [1] for anyone that might be interested. These are just quick mockups...touchups will be done later after the ideas are explored. If you are inspired or have comments feel free to post. It'll be constantly changing throughout the night so...check periodically. Diana [1] http://people.redhat.com/dfong/fc6reGraphics/syslinux-splash02.png M?ir?n Duffy wrote: > Here's the wiki page to work on the DNA theme: > http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Artwork/ThemeSubmissions/FC6DNATheme > > Here's the wiki page to wrok on the c6re theme: > http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Artwork/ThemeSubmissions/FC6c6reTheme > > ~m > > _______________________________________________ > Fedora-art-list mailing list > Fedora-art-list at redhat.com > http://www.redhat.com/mailman/listinfo/fedora-art-list From dfong at redhat.com Thu Aug 31 22:00:30 2006 From: dfong at redhat.com (Diana Fong) Date: Thu, 31 Aug 2006 18:00:30 -0400 Subject: Help with New Default Theme for FC 6 and the plan for FC7+ In-Reply-To: <44F750F6.9060901@fedoraproject.org> References: <44F72C87.5010405@redhat.com> <44F750F6.9060901@fedoraproject.org> Message-ID: <44F75BFE.7090407@redhat.com> Rahul wrote: > M?ir?n Duffy wrote: > >> FEDORA CORE 7 AND BEYOND >> ======================== >> >> Since there really was no formal process in place to get community >> artwork contributions into Fedora for FC6, we're kind of doing this >> all last-minute. In the future, we'd like to work on having a more >> formal process by which people can submit concepts up until a certain >> date, full theme mockups up until a certain date, and then an >> advisory board of some sort could be in place to make a decision on >> which theme actually gets in. >> >> This is all still nebulous and cloudy at this point but once we get >> through FC6 I hope this is something we can all work together on to >> ensure that community artwork will be a part of Fedora in the future! >> > > From FC7 onwards, the freeze for all changes including new artwork > would be before the test2 releases and we would define a process for > exceptions artwork people would need to follow along with the rest of > the developers. > > We still need to discuss the process of selecting one particular theme > amoung several submissions that usually turn up. That is something the > people involved here need to figure out. I dont want the board to > micro manage. We are not artists unlike the people here. > Absolutely... After FC6, we should work to better structure the information available and the joining/submission process. Our newcomers could be even be our guide in this endeavor. While various themes can still be submitted, I was thinking at the beginning of each distribution, we could come up with a subject to which submissions would be based on. The focus can then be changed for 8, 9, and so on...but this will keep a basic idea but still be new, interesting, and challenging for the artists. > If you are using the logo in the artwork, please submit it to the > board for approval. The logo is part of our Fedora trademark and we > need to legally protect it or risk losing it. We have been discussing > using more freely licensed alternative logos among other things since > the current situation is obviously not a healthy one. I've heard mention of this for awhile now...how is the alternative logo going? I am a little hesitant about having two logos...I worry about confusion and also brand dilution, will they look similar or vastly different? Sorry if you've already covered this...I haven't been keeping up with the alternate logo conversation. Diana From stickster at gmail.com Thu Aug 31 22:07:42 2006 From: stickster at gmail.com (Paul W. Frields) Date: Thu, 31 Aug 2006 18:07:42 -0400 Subject: User Presence Icons In-Reply-To: <9c3bfa1d0608311350s2afe20d8xda6958f77cc54aa@mail.gmail.com> References: <9c3bfa1d0608311350s2afe20d8xda6958f77cc54aa@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <1157062062.18320.25.camel@localhost.localdomain> On Thu, 2006-08-31 at 21:50 +0100, seawolf wrote: > I've done some of the Echo icons, more specifically user-online, > -offline, -away and -idle. The two versions are on dA at: > http://www.deviantart.com/deviation/39020411/ and (my preference) > http://www.deviantart.com/deviation/39020573/ > > May put some faces or something on them after I tidy the other splashes. Nice! I would think faces aren't necessary, but I really prefer the blue ones, too. At small sizes faces would probably just look muddy anyway. I did have an idea, but it may not be a good one: A while back, someone (M?ir?n I think) posted a "poster" that was supposed to embody community, people talking to each other, etc. The "people" were formed from the infinity sign from the logo, turned around into a vertical stance like a number 8. I thought this was a really neat idea, and I wonder if the chat presence icons might work using those icons, even if they were "cut off at the hip," so to speak. -- Paul W. Frields, RHCE http://paul.frields.org/ gpg fingerprint: 3DA6 A0AC 6D58 FEC4 0233 5906 ACDB C937 BD11 3717 Fedora Project Board: http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Board Fedora Docs Project: http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/DocsProject -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: signature.asc Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 189 bytes Desc: This is a digitally signed message part URL: From sundaram at fedoraproject.org Thu Aug 31 22:21:15 2006 From: sundaram at fedoraproject.org (Rahul) Date: Fri, 01 Sep 2006 03:51:15 +0530 Subject: Help with New Default Theme for FC 6 and the plan for FC7+ In-Reply-To: <44F75BFE.7090407@redhat.com> References: <44F72C87.5010405@redhat.com> <44F750F6.9060901@fedoraproject.org> <44F75BFE.7090407@redhat.com> Message-ID: <44F760DB.2080009@fedoraproject.org> Diana Fong wrote: > Absolutely... > After FC6, we should work to better structure the information available > and the joining/submission process. Our newcomers could be even be our > guide in this endeavor. While various themes can still be submitted, I > was thinking at the beginning of each distribution, we could come up > with a subject to which submissions would be based on. The focus can > then be changed for 8, 9, and so on...but this will keep a basic idea > but still be new, interesting, and challenging for the artists. Yep. Just sort out something within the team here. >> If you are using the logo in the artwork, please submit it to the >> board for approval. The logo is part of our Fedora trademark and we >> need to legally protect it or risk losing it. We have been discussing >> using more freely licensed alternative logos among other things since >> the current situation is obviously not a healthy one. > > I've heard mention of this for awhile now...how is the alternative logo > going? I am a little hesitant about having two logos...I worry about > confusion and also brand dilution, will they look similar or vastly > different? Sorry if you've already covered this...I haven't been > keeping up with the alternate logo conversation. > Oh, We havent decided that we need to go with a alternative logo and like you said there might be confusion and brand dilution but the alternative is to police every usage of the logo. That doesnt sound like a attractive choice either. We cant create a good community using and promoting Fedora by doing that. Similar issues with our trademark guidelines in general too. Hard problem really. We have had several discussions in the Fedora Advisory Board. You can read through the archives or subscribe to the read only list to follow future discussions. http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Board Rahul From dfong at redhat.com Thu Aug 31 22:41:05 2006 From: dfong at redhat.com (Diana Fong) Date: Thu, 31 Aug 2006 18:41:05 -0400 Subject: Icon Naming Spec Message-ID: <44F76581.7080902@redhat.com> Hello All, My name is Diana, and I am currently heading the Echo icon set effort...which has adopted the Tango naming scheme. We've now created several icons that do not currently exist in the Tango set and so the creators try to name it as best we understand the naming scheme. I've been contacted a couple of times to change the names of some icons and have gladly done so. Please check out our gallery [1] and let us know of which needs to be renamed and to what. I'd also like for some direction for myself as well as other contributors to follow for new icons we will be making in the future. Should a new email be sent each time a new icon is made that has not been named? I am currently aware of: drive-cdrom -> drive-optical media-cdrom -> media-optical media-dvd -> drive-optical-dvd drive-harddisk-1394 -> drive-harddisk-ieee1394 drive-removable-1394 -> drive-removable-media-ieee1394 drive-removable-usb -> drive-removable-media-usb Thanks, Diana [1] http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Artwork/EchoDevelopment