From charavel.olivier at gmail.com Sat Jun 3 18:34:02 2006 From: charavel.olivier at gmail.com (Charavel Olivier) Date: Sat, 03 Jun 2006 20:34:02 +0200 Subject: Fedora Core Theme Message-ID: <1149359646.11550.8.camel@localhost.localdomain> Hello, Since the new version of the Ubuntu distribution is out, they created an engine with a new look. I thought it would be cool to try something with it. I changed the colours into blue to fit Fedora colorshemes, also created a metacity theme and here it is. You'll need to install the engine which is available in this package... : http://www.gnome-look.org/content/show.php?content=38290&PHPSESSID=a626a4af3b0b576b60cb8080f95c9cae Tell me what you think. Oh, I do think the metacity buttons lack of lights / darks (on prelight and pressed buttons) and I'll of course changed that later :). Cheers, Olivier. -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: Fedora Core.png Type: image/png Size: 319748 bytes Desc: not available URL: -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: Fedora Core.tar.gz Type: application/x-compressed-tar Size: 8133 bytes Desc: not available URL: From duffy at redhat.com Fri Jun 9 15:18:53 2006 From: duffy at redhat.com (=?ISO-8859-1?Q?M=E1ir=EDn_Duffy?=) Date: Fri, 09 Jun 2006 11:18:53 -0400 Subject: Puplet Icons Message-ID: <4489915D.60206@redhat.com> Hey Everybody, Jeremy and Seth have been working on puplet [1], which will inform Fedora users of when their packages are out-of-date. The icons needed for puplet are: 1) 'Updates are available and need to be applied' 2) 'The system is currently downloading updates' (will help explain to users why their system may be running a bit slowly) 3) 'Updates have been applied' 4) Pup is confused / error condition (maybe network is down) I started work on icon #1 working from the style / color palette Diana has set with her new icon theme: http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Artwork/NewIconDevelopment If anybody has any thoughts about what could be used to represent the different icons needed or any ideas on improvements to what I've put up or even if you just want to play around with the SVG feel free! What do you guys think about the perspective of panel icons? Flat or isometric to match the rest? [1] http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/YumApplet ~m -- M?ir?n Duffy Interaction Designer Red Hat Network :: Red Hat, Inc. Westford, MA From tchung at fedoraproject.org Fri Jun 9 17:08:29 2006 From: tchung at fedoraproject.org (Thomas Chung) Date: Fri, 9 Jun 2006 10:08:29 -0700 Subject: Puplet Icons In-Reply-To: <4489915D.60206@redhat.com> References: <4489915D.60206@redhat.com> Message-ID: <369bce3b0606091008o3f236ef6l22cb1a48f2a3b934@mail.gmail.com> On 6/9/06, M?ir?n Duffy wrote: > Hey Everybody, > > Jeremy and Seth have been working on puplet [1], which will inform Fedora users > of when their packages are out-of-date. The icons needed for puplet are: > > 1) 'Updates are available and need to be applied' > 2) 'The system is currently downloading updates' (will help explain to users why > their system may be running a bit slowly) > 3) 'Updates have been applied' > 4) Pup is confused / error condition (maybe network is down) > > I started work on icon #1 working from the style / color palette Diana has set > with her new icon theme: > > http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Artwork/NewIconDevelopment > > If anybody has any thoughts about what could be used to represent the different > icons needed or any ideas on improvements to what I've put up or even if you > just want to play around with the SVG feel free! > > What do you guys think about the perspective of panel icons? Flat or isometric > to match the rest? > > [1] http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/YumApplet > > > ~m > > -- > M?ir?n Duffy > Interaction Designer > Red Hat Network :: Red Hat, Inc. > Westford, MA Thank you for your new effort. I'll make sure to include it in the next issue of FWN to draw more attention. Personally, I prefer "isometric" for panel icons. Regards, -- Thomas Chung http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/ThomasChung From nicu_fedora at nicubunu.ro Fri Jun 9 17:32:01 2006 From: nicu_fedora at nicubunu.ro (Nicu Buculei) Date: Fri, 09 Jun 2006 20:32:01 +0300 Subject: Puplet Icons In-Reply-To: <4489915D.60206@redhat.com> References: <4489915D.60206@redhat.com> Message-ID: <4489B091.8070409@nicubunu.ro> M?ir?n Duffy wrote: > > I started work on icon #1 working from the style / color palette Diana > has set with her new icon theme: > > http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Artwork/NewIconDevelopment I am not very fond of the animations in the icon, in fact i used to hate the red notification in up2date, it was too obtrusive. As you say in the wiki, going without CDROM will permit sub-icons. I agree about dropping the CDROM, it has no place here, the update is made over the network, not from optical media. As for sub-icons, why not going with the most obvious choices: red exclamation mark for security updates, yellow or orange exclamation mark for other updates, arrow for download in progress, green checkmark for success and red X for error? > If anybody has any thoughts about what could be used to represent the > different icons needed or any ideas on improvements to what I've put up > or even if you just want to play around with the SVG feel free! > > What do you guys think about the perspective of panel icons? Flat or > isometric to match the rest? I find this question hard to answer. To me the flat icon look plain and boring and the isometric one not very readable at this small size (24x24) - but do not understand me wrong, i like very much how the icons look at the large size (with the 'isometric perspective' as a favorite). From duffy at redhat.com Fri Jun 9 17:57:38 2006 From: duffy at redhat.com (=?ISO-8859-1?Q?M=E1ir=EDn_Duffy?=) Date: Fri, 09 Jun 2006 13:57:38 -0400 Subject: Puplet Icons In-Reply-To: <4489B091.8070409@nicubunu.ro> References: <4489915D.60206@redhat.com> <4489B091.8070409@nicubunu.ro> Message-ID: <4489B692.50901@redhat.com> Nicu Buculei wrote: > M?ir?n Duffy wrote: > >> >> I started work on icon #1 working from the style / color palette Diana >> has set with her new icon theme: >> >> http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Artwork/NewIconDevelopment > > > > I am not very fond of the animations in the icon, in fact i used to hate > the red notification in up2date, it was too obtrusive. Yeh, I agree. That's why I'm thinking about just having a somewhat subtle color highlight (that does not glow, or throb, or anything!!!!!! it stays put!!! ;-) ) to indicate an update is available. Stuff blinking on the screen gets quite out-of-hand! > As you say in the wiki, going without CDROM will permit sub-icons. I > agree about dropping the CDROM, it has no place here, the update is made > over the network, not from optical media. > As for sub-icons, why not going with the most obvious choices: red > exclamation mark for security updates, yellow or orange exclamation mark > for other updates, arrow for download in progress, green checkmark for > success and red X for error? Well, I'm thinking arrows for download in progress definitely. I was thinking about arrows in the same style as the 'home' icon is in the folder here: http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Artwork/BluecurveAndBeyond?action=AttachFile&do=get&target=screen01_28.png You know with the blue color and white outline accents. Maybe a bit more upright though. I do have a set of critical / warning update icons I did for RHN (system update status ones at http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Artwork/BluecurveLibrary) which we can use. The thing is though, I think what we have are the following, in order to least to most severe: - Enhancement Updates - Bug updates - Security update: Low - Security update: Moderate - Security update: Important - Security update: Critical That's a lot of different states. :-/ >> If anybody has any thoughts about what could be used to represent the >> different icons needed or any ideas on improvements to what I've put >> up or even if you just want to play around with the SVG feel free! >> >> What do you guys think about the perspective of panel icons? Flat or >> isometric to match the rest? > > > I find this question hard to answer. To me the flat icon look plain and > boring and the isometric one not very readable at this small size > (24x24) - but do not understand me wrong, i like very much how the icons > look at the large size (with the 'isometric perspective' as a favorite). Yeh the lines on the flat ones are a lot more readable at such a small size, but the isometric ones, while more challenging to get nice lines on at a small size are easier to figure out waht they are because you get to see more than one side. For example, I showed the flat update ones I did to someone and they thought the package looked like a terracotta plant pot. :) It's much harder to tell what something is if it is flat. ~m From duffy at redhat.com Fri Jun 9 17:58:25 2006 From: duffy at redhat.com (=?ISO-8859-1?Q?M=E1ir=EDn_Duffy?=) Date: Fri, 09 Jun 2006 13:58:25 -0400 Subject: Puplet Icons In-Reply-To: <369bce3b0606091008o3f236ef6l22cb1a48f2a3b934@mail.gmail.com> References: <4489915D.60206@redhat.com> <369bce3b0606091008o3f236ef6l22cb1a48f2a3b934@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <4489B6C1.2060002@redhat.com> Hi Thomas, Thomas Chung wrote: > Thank you for your new effort. > I'll make sure to include it in the next issue of FWN to draw more > attention. > Personally, I prefer "isometric" for panel icons. Sweet! Thank you so much! I'm looking to get a set into FC 6 test 1, which means I'll have something together for next Wednesday :) ~m From duffy at redhat.com Fri Jun 9 18:02:49 2006 From: duffy at redhat.com (=?ISO-8859-1?Q?M=E1ir=EDn_Duffy?=) Date: Fri, 09 Jun 2006 14:02:49 -0400 Subject: Fedora Core Theme In-Reply-To: <1149359646.11550.8.camel@localhost.localdomain> References: <1149359646.11550.8.camel@localhost.localdomain> Message-ID: <4489B7C9.4000901@redhat.com> Hi Charavel, Charavel Olivier wrote: > Hello, > > Since the new version of the Ubuntu distribution is out, they created an > engine with a new look. I thought it would be cool to try something with > it. I changed the colours into blue to fit Fedora colorshemes, also > created a metacity theme and here it is. > > You'll need to install the engine which is available in this > package... : > http://www.gnome-look.org/content/show.php?content=38290&PHPSESSID=a626a4af3b0b576b60cb8080f95c9cae > > Tell me what you think. Oh, I do think the metacity buttons lack of > lights / darks (on prelight and pressed buttons) and I'll of course > changed that later :). This is a nice metacity theme. Can you package it up, and put up a screenshot, and put it in the Fedora wiki? (I suggest not having Tango icons in the screenshot since it'll confuse people, but it's your choice. Try to crop the screenshot so people 'get' that it's a metacity theme rather than an icon theme bc it has caused some confusion in IRC.) You can add it to this page: http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Artwork/ThemeSubmissions ~m From nicu_fedora at nicubunu.ro Fri Jun 9 18:59:17 2006 From: nicu_fedora at nicubunu.ro (Nicu Buculei) Date: Fri, 09 Jun 2006 21:59:17 +0300 Subject: Puplet Icons In-Reply-To: <4489B692.50901@redhat.com> References: <4489915D.60206@redhat.com> <4489B091.8070409@nicubunu.ro> <4489B692.50901@redhat.com> Message-ID: <4489C505.3060109@nicubunu.ro> M?ir?n Duffy wrote: > Well, I'm thinking arrows for download in progress definitely. I was > thinking about arrows in the same style as the 'home' icon is in the > folder here: > http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Artwork/BluecurveAndBeyond?action=AttachFile&do=get&target=screen01_28.png > > > You know with the blue color and white outline accents. Maybe a bit more > upright though. Yes, i think that would look very good. > I do have a set of critical / warning update icons I did for RHN (system > update status ones at > http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Artwork/BluecurveLibrary) which we can > use. The thing is though, I think what we have are the following, in > order to least to most severe: > > - Enhancement Updates > - Bug updates > - Security update: Low > - Security update: Moderate > - Security update: Important > - Security update: Critical > > That's a lot of different states. :-/ To my shame, i have not read the puplet docs and was not aware there are so much states to show... Definitely, only color codes is not enough. From duffy at redhat.com Fri Jun 9 19:59:54 2006 From: duffy at redhat.com (=?ISO-8859-1?Q?M=E1ir=EDn_Duffy?=) Date: Fri, 09 Jun 2006 15:59:54 -0400 Subject: Puplet Icons In-Reply-To: <4489C505.3060109@nicubunu.ro> References: <4489915D.60206@redhat.com> <4489B091.8070409@nicubunu.ro> <4489B692.50901@redhat.com> <4489C505.3060109@nicubunu.ro> Message-ID: <4489D33A.1070908@redhat.com> Nicu Buculei wrote: > M?ir?n Duffy wrote: > >> Well, I'm thinking arrows for download in progress definitely. I was >> thinking about arrows in the same style as the 'home' icon is in the >> folder here: >> http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Artwork/BluecurveAndBeyond?action=AttachFile&do=get&target=screen01_28.png >> >> >> You know with the blue color and white outline accents. Maybe a bit >> more upright though. > > > Yes, i think that would look very good. I made an attempt :( http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Artwork/NewIconDevelopment It is impossible to get the blue - white - outline to look good at that size! So I tried this circle thing... > To my shame, i have not read the puplet docs and was not aware there are > so much states to show... Definitely, only color codes is not enough. Oh it's not in the docs AFAIK :) I just know all the update types because I work on Red Hat Network :) ~m From duffy at redhat.com Fri Jun 9 21:55:10 2006 From: duffy at redhat.com (=?ISO-8859-1?Q?M=E1ir=EDn_Duffy?=) Date: Fri, 09 Jun 2006 17:55:10 -0400 Subject: Puplet Icons In-Reply-To: <4489915D.60206@redhat.com> References: <4489915D.60206@redhat.com> Message-ID: <4489EE3E.7000007@redhat.com> Hey everybody, I added lots more icon work to that page. :) http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Artwork/NewIconDevelopment Check it out and let me know what you think. ~m From tchung at fedoraproject.org Fri Jun 9 22:13:36 2006 From: tchung at fedoraproject.org (Thomas Chung) Date: Fri, 9 Jun 2006 15:13:36 -0700 Subject: Puplet Icons In-Reply-To: <4489EE3E.7000007@redhat.com> References: <4489915D.60206@redhat.com> <4489EE3E.7000007@redhat.com> Message-ID: <369bce3b0606091513h485c4e8dmbca86d2b806e0366@mail.gmail.com> On 6/9/06, M?ir?n Duffy wrote: > Hey everybody, > > I added lots more icon work to that page. :) > > http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Artwork/NewIconDevelopment > > Check it out and let me know what you think. > > ~m Good job. Personally I prefer first sets of icons (the one with box) for "Downloading Updates" Regards, -- Thomas Chung http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/ThomasChung From tchung at fedoraproject.org Fri Jun 9 22:23:53 2006 From: tchung at fedoraproject.org (Thomas Chung) Date: Fri, 9 Jun 2006 15:23:53 -0700 Subject: Puplet Icons In-Reply-To: <4489EE3E.7000007@redhat.com> References: <4489915D.60206@redhat.com> <4489EE3E.7000007@redhat.com> Message-ID: <369bce3b0606091523m719478b9xee362ad30e25cd1b@mail.gmail.com> On 6/9/06, M?ir?n Duffy wrote: > Hey everybody, > > I added lots more icon work to that page. :) > > http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Artwork/NewIconDevelopment > > Check it out and let me know what you think. > > ~m Sorry, if you discuss this issue already in the past. Is there a reason why we can't use existing RHN notification icons? http://www.redhat.com/docs/manuals/RHNetwork/ref-guide/4.0/s1-applet-notification-icons.html Are these icons also trademarks of Red Hat and can't be integrated in Fedora Core? Regards, -- Thomas Chung http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/ThomasChung From duffy at redhat.com Fri Jun 9 22:35:22 2006 From: duffy at redhat.com (=?ISO-8859-1?Q?M=E1ir=EDn_Duffy?=) Date: Fri, 09 Jun 2006 18:35:22 -0400 Subject: Puplet Icons In-Reply-To: <369bce3b0606091523m719478b9xee362ad30e25cd1b@mail.gmail.com> References: <4489915D.60206@redhat.com> <4489EE3E.7000007@redhat.com> <369bce3b0606091523m719478b9xee362ad30e25cd1b@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <4489F7AA.5050607@redhat.com> Hi Thomas, Thomas Chung wrote: > Sorry, if you discuss this issue already in the past. > Is there a reason why we can't use existing RHN notification icons? > http://www.redhat.com/docs/manuals/RHNetwork/ref-guide/4.0/s1-applet-notification-icons.html > > Are these icons also trademarks of Red Hat and can't be integrated in > Fedora Core? Actually, the rhn-applet icons are GPL and we are free to use them so there isn't any problem there. There are a few reasons to not use them though: 1) The rhn-applet icons take up a bit too much of the 24 x 24 grid they get on the panel. Many panel icons have a bit more of a margin to them. 2) The rhn-applet icons are Bluecurve; since we're trying to move to Diana's new style, we're looking to have icons that match that style better. This is a good opportunity to get an app that uses the new style to see how people like it! 3) As discussed a bit on http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/YumApplet, these icons are going to be notification icons rather than an applet, so there won't always be an icon there taking up space on the panel. The package will only appear if updates are available, for example - it won't always be displayed. If your system is updated, you won't see it. The 'everything is OK' checkmark doesn't make as much sense in this context because you'd never see the everything is OK icon then. :) 4) We actually somewhat recently made some changes to the way the icons look within the RHN web ui, so the rhn-applet icons don't even match the icons in the RHN web ui exactly anymore anyway (they're not all circular anymore, they use different shapes) 5) It's fun to make new icons! :) ~m From tchung at fedoraproject.org Fri Jun 9 22:41:21 2006 From: tchung at fedoraproject.org (Thomas Chung) Date: Fri, 9 Jun 2006 15:41:21 -0700 Subject: Puplet Icons In-Reply-To: <4489F7AA.5050607@redhat.com> References: <4489915D.60206@redhat.com> <4489EE3E.7000007@redhat.com> <369bce3b0606091523m719478b9xee362ad30e25cd1b@mail.gmail.com> <4489F7AA.5050607@redhat.com> Message-ID: <369bce3b0606091541n2f204bf6o9e783d951207f3e0@mail.gmail.com> On 6/9/06, M?ir?n Duffy wrote: > Hi Thomas, > > Thomas Chung wrote: > > Sorry, if you discuss this issue already in the past. > > Is there a reason why we can't use existing RHN notification icons? > > http://www.redhat.com/docs/manuals/RHNetwork/ref-guide/4.0/s1-applet-notification-icons.html > > > > Are these icons also trademarks of Red Hat and can't be integrated in > > Fedora Core? > > Actually, the rhn-applet icons are GPL and we are free to use them so there > isn't any problem there. > > There are a few reasons to not use them though: > ... > 5) It's fun to make new icons! :) > > ~m Thank you for the very informative explanations. I like your answer no 5. :) -- Thomas Chung http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/ThomasChung From nicu_fedora at nicubunu.ro Sat Jun 10 07:09:31 2006 From: nicu_fedora at nicubunu.ro (Nicu Buculei) Date: Sat, 10 Jun 2006 10:09:31 +0300 Subject: Puplet Icons In-Reply-To: <4489EE3E.7000007@redhat.com> References: <4489915D.60206@redhat.com> <4489EE3E.7000007@redhat.com> Message-ID: <448A702B.2030807@nicubunu.ro> M?ir?n Duffy wrote: > Hey everybody, > > I added lots more icon work to that page. :) > > http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Artwork/NewIconDevelopment > > Check it out and let me know what you think. Eye meet candy, eye like candy, happy-happy. I like better in each set the version from bottom-left, the one with a package, a colored circle and white drawing. The sub-icon is more readable this way and the presence of the package show what the notification is about. From thomas.canniot at laposte.net Sat Jun 10 08:38:42 2006 From: thomas.canniot at laposte.net (Thomas Canniot) Date: Sat, 10 Jun 2006 10:38:42 +0200 Subject: Puplet Icons In-Reply-To: <369bce3b0606091008o3f236ef6l22cb1a48f2a3b934@mail.gmail.com> References: <4489915D.60206@redhat.com> <369bce3b0606091008o3f236ef6l22cb1a48f2a3b934@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <1149928722.2811.9.camel@MrTomLinux.workstation> Le vendredi 09 juin 2006 ? 10:08 -0700, Thomas Chung a ?crit : > On 6/9/06, M?ir?n Duffy wrote: > > Hey Everybody, > > > > Jeremy and Seth have been working on puplet [1], which will inform Fedora users > > of when their packages are out-of-date. The icons needed for puplet are: > > > > 1) 'Updates are available and need to be applied' > > 2) 'The system is currently downloading updates' (will help explain to users why > > their system may be running a bit slowly) > > 3) 'Updates have been applied' > > 4) Pup is confused / error condition (maybe network is down) > > > > I started work on icon #1 working from the style / color palette Diana has set > > with her new icon theme: > > > > http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Artwork/NewIconDevelopment > > > > If anybody has any thoughts about what could be used to represent the different > > icons needed or any ideas on improvements to what I've put up or even if you > > just want to play around with the SVG feel free! > > > > What do you guys think about the perspective of panel icons? Flat or isometric > > to match the rest? > > > > [1] http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/YumApplet > > > > > > ~m > > > > -- > > M?ir?n Duffy > > Interaction Designer > > Red Hat Network :: Red Hat, Inc. > > Westford, MA > > Thank you for your new effort. > I'll make sure to include it in the next issue of FWN to draw more attention. > Personally, I prefer "isometric" for panel icons. > Regards, So do I :) Great job, really I mean it ! -- Thomas Canniot http://www.fedoraproject.org/wiki/ThomasCanniot -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: signature.asc Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 189 bytes Desc: Ceci est une partie de message num?riquement sign?e URL: From luya_tfz at thefinalzone.com Sat Jun 10 08:43:46 2006 From: luya_tfz at thefinalzone.com (Luya Tshimbalanga) Date: Sat, 10 Jun 2006 16:43:46 +0800 Subject: Puplet Icons Message-ID: I really like the isometric look instead of flat because the latter does not feel right for Fedora theme. I like the color palette as it gives a feeling of an underwater environment. Luya Tshimbalanga -- Fedora Project Contributor http://www.fedoraproject.org/wiki/LuyaTshimbalanga http://www.fedoranews.org From luya_tfz at thefinalzone.com Sat Jun 10 08:44:16 2006 From: luya_tfz at thefinalzone.com (Luya Tshimbalanga) Date: Sat, 10 Jun 2006 16:44:16 +0800 Subject: Puplet Icons Message-ID: I really like the isometric look instead of flat because the latter does not feel right for Fedora theme. I like the color palette as it gives a feeling of an underwater environment. Luya Tshimbalanga -- Fedora Project Contributor http://www.fedoraproject.org/wiki/LuyaTshimbalanga http://www.fedoranews.org From stickster at gmail.com Sun Jun 11 20:24:59 2006 From: stickster at gmail.com (Paul W. Frields) Date: Sun, 11 Jun 2006 16:24:59 -0400 Subject: Puplet Icons In-Reply-To: <4489EE3E.7000007@redhat.com> References: <4489915D.60206@redhat.com> <4489EE3E.7000007@redhat.com> Message-ID: <1150057499.12519.7.camel@localhost.localdomain> On Fri, 2006-06-09 at 17:55 -0400, M?ir?n Duffy wrote: > Hey everybody, > > I added lots more icon work to that page. :) > > http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Artwork/NewIconDevelopment > > Check it out and let me know what you think. I love 'em. My favorite is the one with the box and the colored icons with white emblems (for example, blue transfer icon with white arrows). One suggestion, though: For the "happy face" icon, can you move the "eyes" upward slightly and emphasize the smile a little? It's hard to discern the icon at the small size expected in the notification tray in a default-sized panel, and I know you probably don't want to make the emblem much larger since it would overwhelm the "package box" in the icon. -- Paul W. Frields, RHCE http://paul.frields.org/ gpg fingerprint: 3DA6 A0AC 6D58 FEC4 0233 5906 ACDB C937 BD11 3717 Fedora Documentation Project: http://fedora.redhat.com/projects/docs/ -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: signature.asc Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 189 bytes Desc: This is a digitally signed message part URL: From jfrieben at freesurf.fr Thu Jun 15 07:58:49 2006 From: jfrieben at freesurf.fr (Joachim Frieben) Date: Thu, 15 Jun 2006 09:58:49 +0200 (CEST) Subject: Puplet icon != Bluecurve Message-ID: <62416.194.94.224.254.1150358329.squirrel@arlette.freesurf.fr> With yesterday's rawhide updates, the yum update daemon got installed. Consequently, a notification icon appears in the panel when updates are available. One notices immediately that the brown box icon does not fit at all the default Fedora "Bluecurve" icon theme. Moreover, it's barely recognizable as the object that it is meant to represent. It's rather dark and too small. I had seen the icon drafts earlier and at a bigger size. Otherwise I probably wouldn't have guessed .. The correct icon look is already (!!) implemented in menu point: "Applications" > "Add/Remove Software" The icon also shows an open box which, however, fits the "Bluecurve" theme prefectly, and which - thanks to "Bluecurve"'s "cartoonish" (and lately criticized) appearance - is well recognizable even at the small icon sizes available in the panel. I suggest to derive the updater notification icon from the latter, as "Bluecurve" is the default theme. In case that a new Fedora icon theme is planned, the current notification icon can be added to that. However, as said it's simply incompatible with "Bluecurve". From nicu_fedora at nicubunu.ro Thu Jun 15 12:28:55 2006 From: nicu_fedora at nicubunu.ro (Nicu Buculei) Date: Thu, 15 Jun 2006 15:28:55 +0300 Subject: Puplet icon != Bluecurve In-Reply-To: <62416.194.94.224.254.1150358329.squirrel@arlette.freesurf.fr> References: <62416.194.94.224.254.1150358329.squirrel@arlette.freesurf.fr> Message-ID: <44915287.8090503@nicubunu.ro> Joachim Frieben wrote: > With yesterday's rawhide updates, the yum update daemon got installed. > Consequently, a notification icon appears in the panel when updates are > available. One notices immediately that the brown box icon does not fit at > all the default Fedora "Bluecurve" icon theme. Moreover, it's barely > recognizable as the object that it is meant to represent. It's rather dark > and too small. I had seen the icon drafts earlier and at a bigger size. > Otherwise I probably wouldn't have guessed .. Please see the archive of this list, this is an attempt to revamp the Fedora default theme. See also this page (Mockup 2): http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Artwork/BluecurveAndBeyond -- nicu Cool Fedora wallpapers: http://fedora.nicubunu.ro/wallpapers/ Open Clip Art Library: http://www.openclipart.org my Fedora stuff: http://fedora.nicubunu.ro From jfrieben at freesurf.fr Thu Jun 15 12:53:13 2006 From: jfrieben at freesurf.fr (Joachim Frieben) Date: Thu, 15 Jun 2006 14:53:13 +0200 (CEST) Subject: Puplet icon != Bluecurve In-Reply-To: <44915287.8090503@nicubunu.ro> References: <44915287.8090503@nicubunu.ro> Message-ID: <59288.194.94.224.254.1150375993.squirrel@arlette.freesurf.fr> I'm aware of this project. But this is still no reason to corrupt "Bluecurve". Simply create a new icon theme consisting of old icons ("Bluecurve", etc.), give it a distinct name and use it as your playground. In the same time, make sure that new applications are also provided with a "Bluecurve" style icon, and-if you want-what you call a "revamped" Fedora default theme one. Btw, in the cited case of the "yum" notifier applet, an existing icon could be easily adapted to complete the "Bluecurve" theme. Unless "Bluecurve" is officially abandoned by Red Hat, I see no reason not to ensure a minimum maintenance work. The latest attempts to "revamp" the Fedora icon theme are plain horrible. I don't care about this as long a "Bluecurve" remains intact and is maintained to a minimum extent. When I a look at my current notification area there is a brand-new "gnome-power-manager" icon which is a blue fuzzy blob, and the new "puplet" icon which looks like equally weird. This really breaks the "visual user experience". > > Please see the archive of this list, this is an attempt to revamp the > Fedora default theme. > From nicu_fedora at nicubunu.ro Thu Jun 15 13:36:42 2006 From: nicu_fedora at nicubunu.ro (Nicu Buculei) Date: Thu, 15 Jun 2006 16:36:42 +0300 Subject: Puplet icon != Bluecurve In-Reply-To: <59288.194.94.224.254.1150375993.squirrel@arlette.freesurf.fr> References: <44915287.8090503@nicubunu.ro> <59288.194.94.224.254.1150375993.squirrel@arlette.freesurf.fr> Message-ID: <4491626A.8060102@nicubunu.ro> Joachim Frieben wrote: > I'm aware of this project. But this is still no reason to corrupt > "Bluecurve". Simply create a new icon theme consisting of old icons > ("Bluecurve", etc.), give it a distinct name and use it as your playground. > In the same time, make sure that new applications are also provided with a > "Bluecurve" style icon, and-if you want-what you call a "revamped" Fedora > default theme one. Btw, in the cited case of the "yum" notifier applet, an > existing icon could be easily adapted to complete the "Bluecurve" theme. > Unless "Bluecurve" is officially abandoned by Red Hat, I see no reason not > to ensure a minimum maintenance work. I guess patches are welcomed. As a starting point, here are the SVG sources for Bluecurve: http://people.redhat.com/duffy/icons/icon_pngs_svgs/bluecurve.zip > The latest attempts to "revamp" the Fedora icon theme are plain horrible. I > don't care about this as long a "Bluecurve" remains intact and is maintained > to a minimum extent. "horrible", "beautiful" - those are subjective terms. Personally I like M?ir?n's work. -- nicu Cool Fedora wallpapers: http://fedora.nicubunu.ro/wallpapers/ Open Clip Art Library: http://www.openclipart.org my Fedora stuff: http://fedora.nicubunu.ro From duffy at redhat.com Thu Jun 15 15:48:59 2006 From: duffy at redhat.com (=?ISO-8859-1?Q?M=E1ir=EDn_Duffy?=) Date: Thu, 15 Jun 2006 11:48:59 -0400 Subject: Puplet icon != Bluecurve In-Reply-To: <62416.194.94.224.254.1150358329.squirrel@arlette.freesurf.fr> References: <62416.194.94.224.254.1150358329.squirrel@arlette.freesurf.fr> Message-ID: <4491816B.7040800@redhat.com> Joachim Frieben wrote: > With yesterday's rawhide updates, the yum update daemon got installed. > Consequently, a notification icon appears in the panel when updates are > available. One notices immediately that the brown box icon does not fit at > all the default Fedora "Bluecurve" icon theme. Moreover, it's barely > recognizable as the object that it is meant to represent. It's rather dark > and too small. I had seen the icon drafts earlier and at a bigger size. > Otherwise I probably wouldn't have guessed .. Just to add to this discussion, there are two blog posts regarding the new icons that Nicola pointed out to me: http://koolinus.wordpress.com/2006/06/14/puplet http://liquidat.wordpress.com/2006/06/12/yum-applet-in-development/ Nicola, for your benefit the archives have the full thread this is in reply to: https://www.redhat.com/archives/fedora-art-list/2006-June/msg00019.html -- M?ir?n Duffy Interaction Designer Red Hat Network :: Red Hat, Inc. Westford, MA From duffy at redhat.com Thu Jun 15 16:03:12 2006 From: duffy at redhat.com (=?ISO-8859-1?Q?M=E1ir=EDn_Duffy?=) Date: Thu, 15 Jun 2006 12:03:12 -0400 Subject: Puplet icon != Bluecurve In-Reply-To: <59288.194.94.224.254.1150375993.squirrel@arlette.freesurf.fr> References: <44915287.8090503@nicubunu.ro> <59288.194.94.224.254.1150375993.squirrel@arlette.freesurf.fr> Message-ID: <449184C0.6040301@redhat.com> Hi Joachim, Joachim Frieben wrote: > I'm aware of this project. But this is still no reason to corrupt > "Bluecurve". Simply create a new icon theme consisting of old icons > ("Bluecurve", etc.), give it a distinct name and use it as your playground. > In the same time, make sure that new applications are also provided with a > "Bluecurve" style icon, and-if you want-what you call a "revamped" Fedora > default theme one. Btw, in the cited case of the "yum" notifier applet, an > existing icon could be easily adapted to complete the "Bluecurve" theme. > Unless "Bluecurve" is officially abandoned by Red Hat, I see no reason not > to ensure a minimum maintenance work. I can make Bluecurve-style icons for puplet as well. I did discuss this possibility with Jeremy Katz (the developer that checked the icons in ;-) ) and he said he preferred icons using the newer style which is why I provided those. Give me a couple days though and I'll make Bluecurve versions of those icons available as well, ok? I can't guarantee they'll make it in as the default icons though but I will try to find out what the options are here for folks who'd like to stick with Bluecurve. As we are trying to focus on building a new icon theme, we'd like to try to get more community involvement in Bluecurve by those community members who are interested in it, which is why we've written up some Bluecurve icon guidelines for people to follow to create new icons [1], Andy and Nicu have done a bunch of work to clean up some of the Bluecurve source files [2], and we've tried to make the Bluecurve artwork more easily available and open up participation [3]. We've all tried to be very open about the decision to move to a new icon theme from Bluecurve and have been posting to this mailing list quite frequently asking for input all along. The only objections we faced were requests to move to Tango. We did receive a lot of requests to move away from Bluecurve because it's 'dated.' If you'd like to help maintain Bluecurve please let us know as we could always use some more help! Even if you'd rather not or don't have the chops to work creating new artwork, we need help with things like building a system to catalog the icons (see https://www.redhat.com/archives/fedora-art-list/2006-May/msg00021.html) and cleaning up the SVG files. > The latest attempts to "revamp" the Fedora icon theme are plain horrible. I > don't care about this as long a "Bluecurve" remains intact and is maintained > to a minimum extent. > When I a look at my current notification area there is a brand-new > "gnome-power-manager" icon which is a blue fuzzy blob, and the new "puplet" > icon which looks like equally weird. This really breaks the "visual user > experience". Please feel free to bring up any complaints you have about icons on the Fedora desktop either on this list or by filing a bug against the 'redhat-artwork' component here: http://bugzilla.redhat.com/bugzilla/enter_bug.cgi?product=Red%20Hat%20Enterprise%20Linux Attaching screenshots always helps as well, either to your mailing list post or to the bugzilla bug. :) ~m [1] http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Artwork/BluecurveIconGuidelines [2] http://people.redhat.com/duffy/icons/ [3] http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Artwork, http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Artwork/BluecurveLibrary From n.losito at yahoo.it Thu Jun 15 17:10:13 2006 From: n.losito at yahoo.it (nicola -kOoLiNuS- losito) Date: Thu, 15 Jun 2006 19:10:13 +0200 Subject: Puplet icon != Bluecurve In-Reply-To: <4491816B.7040800@redhat.com> References: <62416.194.94.224.254.1150358329.squirrel@arlette.freesurf.fr> <4491816B.7040800@redhat.com> Message-ID: <1150391414.5018.30.camel@ierofante> Il giorno gio, 15/06/2006 alle 11.48 -0400, M?ir?n Duffy ha scritto: > Nicola, for your benefit the archives have the full thread this is in reply to: > https://www.redhat.com/archives/fedora-art-list/2006-June/msg00019.html Hi list, hi Mairin. I've read the entire thread. - premised that i'm italian so i will surely do some mistakes in my email, - premised that i can't hold a pencil in my hand - premised that i do like bluecurve but find it has to be revamped since it's been around for quite a while i am wondering what does keep "us" apart from referring to the tango-project icon set style guide. http://tango.freedesktop.org/Tango_Icon_Gallery features a system-software-update proposed icon while has a software-update-available and software-update-urgent icon to be proposed. Now i think that "we" have to decide if we want to draw a fedora-icon or a general pourpose one, and then in the first case maybe we can play with the fedora bubble ? just my 0,0002 ? [i respect your fantastic (tremendous would be ok too?) work, and don't want to be seen as a "bugger" or how it's said] -- nicola .:kOoLiNuS:. losito http://www.koolinus.net http://koolinus.wordpress.com icq: 62837984 yahoo!: koolinus msn: koolinuz at hotmail.com jabber: koolinus at jabber.linux.it callto://nicola.losito Chiacchiera con i tuoi amici in tempo reale! http://it.yahoo.com/mail_it/foot/*http://it.messenger.yahoo.com From dfong at redhat.com Thu Jun 15 17:57:48 2006 From: dfong at redhat.com (Diana Fong) Date: Thu, 15 Jun 2006 13:57:48 -0400 Subject: The Icon Question In-Reply-To: <44760D11.6080200@redhat.com> References: <44760D11.6080200@redhat.com> Message-ID: <44919F9C.8060700@redhat.com> After M?ir?n sent out the email pertaining to "The Icon Question" a few weeks ago...I braced myself for responses...for or against it. To my surprise, however, there was not much response either way...which..._could_ be a good thing. I therefore, feel like I might be poking at the hornet's nest a bit as I write this email to point to the recent additions I've made to http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Artwork/BluecurveAndBeyond and to inquire how you all feel about it. I've also noticed a lot of feedback to the puplet icons M?ir?n created recently and see two strands of issues being discussed. One being that the puplet icons do not match the current bluecurve icons (this conversation is being addressed should remain in that thread) and the other being concerns about the new icon look in general (which is what I'm interested in and think should be looked into). Let's discuss. =) Mockups and sketches are welcome and most helpful. Subjective "I hate the whole theme" comments are less so. Try to be a bit specific...I'm not saying, pixel for pixel, but...why? is it the colours, the perspective, or you just think that bluecurve is the best and should not be changed. Thanks Diana M?ir?n Duffy wrote: > Hey everybody, > > Since we've gotten onto the topic of the default icon theme for Fedora - > > Well, above all, everyone here wants Fedora to have a slick, > great-looking desktop, right? That's the main goal of the Fedora Art > project. With Fedora Core 5 we've started to move in that direction > with a new logo (thanks to Matt Mu?oz) and new theming elements > (thanks to Diana) and have received positive feedback. However, we are > still using Bluecurve as the default icon set, which has been around > for a few years now. Among the complaints about Bluecurve is that it's > a cartoony, and 'dated.' So it would be nice to have a fresh, slick > look on the icon front for Fedora. > > Tango has been suggested as an alternative to Bluecurve, but nobody > has really picked this up to make it happen. (Remember, Fedora is a > community project, you vote with your time & effort.) As the front > page of the Tango Project webpage states, it is "A *suggested* default > native look [1, emphasis mine]." Diana, myself, and other Fedora users > and developers that we've talked to feel the Tango look is a bit too > close to Bluecurve to address the complaints we've heard about > Bluecurve. It feels more like a next-gen Bluecurve than something new. > > We realize that the look of icons for an operating system can have > far-reaching effects. An example I like to use to illustrate this > point is the influence the look of Windows XP Icons [2] appear to have > had in the somewhat recent UPS logo redesign [3]. One of the core > goals of Fedora in general is innovation - looking towards the future > [4]. Can we do that visually - can we make an innovative and cultural > impact on the world with Fedora while using Tango? It doesn't seem > likely. > > The main argument that we've been given as a reason for adopting Tango > is (to roughly paraphrase) - 'it won't work unless everyone uses it.' > The main goal of the Tango Project is: "to help create a consistent > graphical user interface experience for free and Open Source > software[1]," presumably to make FOSS more usable. I'd like to draw a > parallel between this notion of 'all icons should be the same to be > usable' to Jakob's Nielsen's idea of usability - his website, which > may very well be the height of usability, but is far from pleasurable > or delightful to look at. [5] There is definitely some conflict > between visual consistency across desktop distributions and the > branding of each said distribution, but both are important. Agreeing > on a standard set of metaphors / objects to illustrate for icons for > each item in the Tango naming spec, for example, would go a long way > towards meeting Tango's quite noble goal without requiring Fedora to > sacrifice its brand its own desktop. > > Looking towards the future of Fedora's visual design, Diana has put > together a sample mockup (20 icons) of a possible 'next gen' Fedora > icon theme. This is an experimental work-in-progress to explore future > possibilities - a suggestion for a default Fedora icon look. We'd like > to keep this an open discussion. Remember, the goal here is a > great-looking desktop. Some of us (Diana and I) think we could do > better than the Tango look. So here it is: > > http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Artwork/BluecurveAndBeyond > > Specifically: > > http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Artwork/BluecurveAndBeyond?action=AttachFile&do=get&target=screen01_28.png > > http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Artwork/BluecurveAndBeyond?action=AttachFile&do=get&target=screen02_29.png > > http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Artwork/BluecurveAndBeyond?action=AttachFile&do=get&target=screen03_30.png > > > So, to be clear: > > * Are we definitely staying with Bluecurve as the default icon theme > in Fedora? > > Yes, until there is a better alternative that helps us meet our goals. > > * Are we moving to Tango? Or something else? > > We are not moving to Tango right now. We'd like to move to something > new in the future. > > * What icon set should Fedora Art contributors be working on if they > want to create new icons? > > You can continue to work on Bluecurve icons, keeping in mind that we > are looking to eventually retire it as the default theme. You can also > help us out in coming up with a better alternative - we welcome any > feedback / proposed revisions to Diana's mockup, or you come up with > your own. > > ~m > > > [1] http://www.tango-project.org/ > [2] http://www.idblog.org/archives/000162.html > [3] > http://msdn.microsoft.com/library/default.asp?url=/library/en-us/dnwxp/html/winxpicons.asp > > [4] http://www.redhat.com/magazine/014dec05/features/fedora/ > [5] http://www.useit.com/ > > From n.losito at yahoo.it Thu Jun 15 18:26:47 2006 From: n.losito at yahoo.it (nicola -kOoLiNuS- losito) Date: Thu, 15 Jun 2006 20:26:47 +0200 Subject: The Icon Question In-Reply-To: <44919F9C.8060700@redhat.com> References: <44760D11.6080200@redhat.com> <44919F9C.8060700@redhat.com> Message-ID: <1150396007.12849.8.camel@ierofante> Il giorno gio, 15/06/2006 alle 13.57 -0400, Diana Fong ha scritto: > I therefore, feel like I might > be poking at the hornet's nest a bit as I write this email to point to > the recent additions I've made to > http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Artwork/BluecurveAndBeyond and to inquire > how you all feel about it. I do prefer "set one". I enjoy the more "squared" look of the icons. Also i do not think bluecurve to be cartoonish (did i say i love comics ?) and think it is one of the most consistent and not boring-in-the-long way icon sets. I also see the trash-icon as nice per se, but put on the FC5 default deskop it "disappears" ad the computer icon (in a minor way). I've shared :-) -- nicola .:kOoLiNuS:. losito http://www.koolinus.net http://koolinus.wordpress.com Chiacchiera con i tuoi amici in tempo reale! http://it.yahoo.com/mail_it/foot/*http://it.messenger.yahoo.com From stevelist at silverorange.com Thu Jun 15 18:54:36 2006 From: stevelist at silverorange.com (Steven Garrity) Date: Thu, 15 Jun 2006 15:54:36 -0300 Subject: The Icon Question In-Reply-To: <44919F9C.8060700@redhat.com> References: <44760D11.6080200@redhat.com> <44919F9C.8060700@redhat.com> Message-ID: <4491ACEC.4050400@silverorange.com> Diana Fong wrote: > Let's discuss. =) Mockups and sketches are welcome and most helpful. > Subjective "I hate the whole theme" comments are less so. Try to be a > bit specific...I'm not saying, pixel for pixel, but...why? is it the > colours, the perspective, or you just think that bluecurve is the best > and should not be changed. The shadows and overall shading feel too heavy. Perhaps the set might feel a bit lighter with softer/lighter shadows. I don't want to sound like a broken record on this, so feel free to read it and move on, but I wonder if it makes sense to create an entire new icon style. With people running applications from so many sources (it's not uncommon to see OpenOffice next to Firefox next to Evolution next to Konqueror), will we ever be able to keep up with the needs for icons in all of these apps if every distro has it's own icon style? I can understand the need for visual differentiation, and make a style worth converging on hasn't been created yet, but creating something Fedora-specific when so much great work has been going up-stream doesn't feel like the best path. I've heard it said that if you want a patch applied to the Fedora kernel, get it applied upstream, and it will then be included in Fedora. Why not take this approach with visual design as well? Sure, each distro can and will retain their own visual style - but does it have to extend to icon perspective? So, yeah - maybe try lighter shadows :-) Cheers, Steven Garrity From jfrieben at freesurf.fr Thu Jun 15 21:50:23 2006 From: jfrieben at freesurf.fr (Joachim Frieben) Date: Thu, 15 Jun 2006 23:50:23 +0200 (CEST) Subject: The Icon Question In-Reply-To: <44919F9C.8060700@redhat.com> References: <44919F9C.8060700@redhat.com> Message-ID: <65175.194.94.224.254.1150408223.squirrel@jose.freesurf.fr> "Bluecurve" has friendly, crisp looking icons due to a well chosen color scheme, consistent perspective, and noticeable outlines which improve contrast. Icons are pictograms and as such -simplified- images of real objects with the aim of easy recognizability. Photorealistic icons are rather counterproductive, especially at small sizes. The "cartoonish" look of "Bluecurve" exactly fits this paradigm. In the "GNOME" panels and menus, a mere 24 pixels is the default size. This has to be kept in mind. The attached screenshot shows the huge difference between "good" and "bad" design. The "Bluecurve" package icon is much more distinct than the "puplet" one (the latter is too small anyway). The new "gnome-power-manager" is particularly poor. It looks slack and fuzzy and is weakly detached from the background. The dropshadow make things rather worse. The screenshot speaks for itself, doesn't it? I find it rather compelling in favour of "Bluecurve". If people believe that a new theme is necessary for the sake of novelty, ok. But name the new theme differently and keep "Bluecurve" or name the current one "Bluecurve Classic" (which already exists as "metacity" theme!) > > Let's discuss. =) Mockups and sketches are welcome and most helpful. > Subjective "I hate the whole theme" comments are less so. Try to be a > bit specific...I'm not saying, pixel for pixel, but...why? is it the > colours, the perspective, or you just think that bluecurve is the best > and should not be changed. > > Thanks > Diana -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: bluecurve.png Type: image/png Size: 15636 bytes Desc: not available URL: From duffy at redhat.com Thu Jun 15 21:58:14 2006 From: duffy at redhat.com (=?ISO-8859-1?Q?M=E1ir=EDn_Duffy?=) Date: Thu, 15 Jun 2006 17:58:14 -0400 Subject: The Icon Question In-Reply-To: <65175.194.94.224.254.1150408223.squirrel@jose.freesurf.fr> References: <44919F9C.8060700@redhat.com> <65175.194.94.224.254.1150408223.squirrel@jose.freesurf.fr> Message-ID: <4491D7F6.4040809@redhat.com> Joachim Frieben wrote: > "Bluecurve" has friendly, crisp looking icons due to a well chosen color > scheme, consistent perspective, and noticeable outlines which improve > contrast. Icons are pictograms and as such -simplified- images of real > objects with the aim of easy recognizability. Photorealistic icons are > rather counterproductive, especially at small sizes. The "cartoonish" look > of "Bluecurve" exactly fits this paradigm. In the "GNOME" panels and menus, > a mere 24 pixels is the default size. This has to be kept in mind. > The attached screenshot shows the huge difference between "good" and "bad" > design. The "Bluecurve" package icon is much more distinct than the "puplet" > one (the latter is too small anyway). The new "gnome-power-manager" is > particularly poor. It looks slack and fuzzy and is weakly detached from the > background. The dropshadow make things rather worse. The screenshot speaks > for itself, doesn't it? We do have options in terms of giving the new icons more clarity at smaller sizes. Modifying the palette to be a bit brighter is a good idea. Also, we can institute a guideline of changing the perspective of icons to be 'dead on' at sizes 24 px or less (and keep them isometric at sizes > 24 px) When I mocked up the puplet icons, I did both a 'dead on' perspective version and isometric version but the feedback I received was that people preferred the isometric version. (You can see the 'dead on' perspective versions of the package icon here: http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Artwork/NewIconDevelopment?action=AttachFile&do=get&target=puplet-updatesavailable-mizmo.png (towards the upper left of the grid of 24 x 24 icons) ~m From nisses.mail at home.se Thu Jun 15 22:50:53 2006 From: nisses.mail at home.se (Andreas Nilsson) Date: Fri, 16 Jun 2006 00:50:53 +0200 Subject: The Icon Question In-Reply-To: <65175.194.94.224.254.1150408223.squirrel@jose.freesurf.fr> References: <44919F9C.8060700@redhat.com> <65175.194.94.224.254.1150408223.squirrel@jose.freesurf.fr> Message-ID: <4491E44D.1070506@home.se> Joachim Frieben wrote: >"Bluecurve" has friendly, crisp looking icons due to a well chosen color >scheme, consistent perspective, and noticeable outlines which improve >contrast. Icons are pictograms and as such -simplified- images of real >objects with the aim of easy recognizability. Photorealistic icons are >rather counterproductive, especially at small sizes. The "cartoonish" look >of "Bluecurve" exactly fits this paradigm. In the "GNOME" panels and menus, >a mere 24 pixels is the default size. This has to be kept in mind. >The attached screenshot shows the huge difference between "good" and "bad" >design. The "Bluecurve" package icon is much more distinct than the "puplet" >one (the latter is too small anyway). The new "gnome-power-manager" is >particularly poor. It looks slack and fuzzy and is weakly detached from the >background. The dropshadow make things rather worse. The screenshot speaks >for itself, doesn't it? I find it rather compelling in favour of "Bluecurve". > > > Wow, quite a mix of styles. I spot icons in old-gnome-style, tango-style, bluecurve-style and this new fedora-style. Seems like you landed up in interface hell! :) About the powermanager-icon, it seems the icon is a bit wierdly scaled, it should look like this: http://jimmac.musichall.cz/wipicons/PowerManager/16x16/battery-charged.png I?ve contributed to these myself (well, just some fixes on the larges sizes), so it?s cool to hear some feedback. Perhaps grey on grey is not that optimal, might be a bit hard to spot. I?ll see what I can do about it. - Andreas From duffy at redhat.com Thu Jun 15 22:59:30 2006 From: duffy at redhat.com (=?ISO-8859-1?Q?M=E1ir=EDn_Duffy?=) Date: Thu, 15 Jun 2006 18:59:30 -0400 Subject: The Icon Question In-Reply-To: <4491E44D.1070506@home.se> References: <44919F9C.8060700@redhat.com> <65175.194.94.224.254.1150408223.squirrel@jose.freesurf.fr> <4491E44D.1070506@home.se> Message-ID: <4491E652.6040408@redhat.com> Andreas Nilsson wrote: > Joachim Frieben wrote: > >> "Bluecurve" has friendly, crisp looking icons due to a well chosen color >> scheme, consistent perspective, and noticeable outlines which improve >> contrast. Icons are pictograms and as such -simplified- images of real >> objects with the aim of easy recognizability. Photorealistic icons are >> rather counterproductive, especially at small sizes. The "cartoonish" >> look >> of "Bluecurve" exactly fits this paradigm. In the "GNOME" panels and >> menus, >> a mere 24 pixels is the default size. This has to be kept in mind. >> The attached screenshot shows the huge difference between "good" and >> "bad" >> design. The "Bluecurve" package icon is much more distinct than the >> "puplet" >> one (the latter is too small anyway). The new "gnome-power-manager" is >> particularly poor. It looks slack and fuzzy and is weakly detached >> from the >> background. The dropshadow make things rather worse. The screenshot >> speaks >> for itself, doesn't it? I find it rather compelling in favour of >> "Bluecurve". >> >> >> > Wow, quite a mix of styles. I spot icons in old-gnome-style, > tango-style, bluecurve-style and this new fedora-style. Seems like you > landed up in interface hell! :) Right, but note this is a test release..... AKA 'not polished.' Let's be fair here. If you run a test release.... ~m From nicu_fedora at nicubunu.ro Fri Jun 16 05:44:22 2006 From: nicu_fedora at nicubunu.ro (Nicu Buculei) Date: Fri, 16 Jun 2006 08:44:22 +0300 Subject: The Icon Question In-Reply-To: <4491E652.6040408@redhat.com> References: <44919F9C.8060700@redhat.com> <65175.194.94.224.254.1150408223.squirrel@jose.freesurf.fr> <4491E44D.1070506@home.se> <4491E652.6040408@redhat.com> Message-ID: <44924536.60809@nicubunu.ro> M?ir?n Duffy wrote: > Andreas Nilsson wrote: >>> >> Wow, quite a mix of styles. I spot icons in old-gnome-style, >> tango-style, bluecurve-style and this new fedora-style. Seems like you >> landed up in interface hell! :) > > Right, but note this is a test release..... AKA 'not polished.' Let's be > fair here. If you run a test release.... Indeed, this is a test release, with some new icons recently introduced. I do not think my screenshot from the stable branch is much better consistency-wise (attached) Having to chose between an unmaintained inconsistent mix and an under heavy development inconsistent mix, i am tempted by the later. -- nicu Cool Fedora wallpapers: http://fedora.nicubunu.ro/wallpapers/ Open Clip Art Library: http://www.openclipart.org my Fedora stuff: http://fedora.nicubunu.ro -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: Screenshot.png Type: image/png Size: 17219 bytes Desc: not available URL: From nicu_fedora at nicubunu.ro Fri Jun 16 06:00:06 2006 From: nicu_fedora at nicubunu.ro (Nicu Buculei) Date: Fri, 16 Jun 2006 09:00:06 +0300 Subject: Puplet icon != Bluecurve In-Reply-To: <1150391414.5018.30.camel@ierofante> References: <62416.194.94.224.254.1150358329.squirrel@arlette.freesurf.fr> <4491816B.7040800@redhat.com> <1150391414.5018.30.camel@ierofante> Message-ID: <449248E6.3080300@nicubunu.ro> nicola -kOoLiNuS- losito wrote: > > Now i think that "we" have to decide if we want to draw a fedora-icon or > a general pourpose one, and then in the first case maybe we can play > with the fedora bubble ? I do not think using the bubble in the puplet status icon is a god idea, i think is a slippery slope: use the bubble for update status, for network status, for whatever other functionality and suddenly the desktop is all bubbles, hard to distinct the purpose of each of them. More, at this small screen size, is very hard (impossible?) to use something else than simple and clear shapes and still have something recognizable - take as and example the SUSE icon mentioned in your blog (http://koolinus.wordpress.com/2006/06/14/puplet), for me as an non-SUSE user, it is completely unrecognizable, i can't tell its purpose from the way it looks. -- nicu Cool Fedora wallpapers: http://fedora.nicubunu.ro/wallpapers/ Open Clip Art Library: http://www.openclipart.org my Fedora stuff: http://fedora.nicubunu.ro From jfrieben at freesurf.fr Fri Jun 16 07:03:58 2006 From: jfrieben at freesurf.fr (Joachim Frieben) Date: Fri, 16 Jun 2006 09:03:58 +0200 (CEST) Subject: The Icon Question In-Reply-To: <4491E44D.1070506@home.se> References: <4491E44D.1070506@home.se> Message-ID: <23871.194.94.224.254.1150441438.squirrel@arlette.freesurf.fr> No, there is no scaling problem at all. The icon in my screenshot is actually a different one and has probably been borrowed from the new Ubuntu icon theme. The icon you are talking about actually used before 2006-06-15 (yesterday). It was more "cartoonish" and well recognizable unlike the new glossy one. - J > About the powermanager-icon, it seems the icon is a bit wierdly scaled, > it should look like this: > http://jimmac.musichall.cz/wipicons/PowerManager/16x16/battery-charged.png > I?ve contributed to these myself (well, just some fixes on the larges > sizes), so it?s cool to hear some feedback. Perhaps grey on grey is not > that optimal, might be a bit hard to spot. I?ll see what I can do > about it. - Andreas > > _______________________________________________ > Fedora-art-list mailing list > Fedora-art-list at redhat.com > http://www.redhat.com/mailman/listinfo/fedora-art-list From n.losito at yahoo.it Fri Jun 16 07:13:25 2006 From: n.losito at yahoo.it (nicola -kOoLiNuS- losito) Date: Fri, 16 Jun 2006 09:13:25 +0200 Subject: Puplet icon != Bluecurve In-Reply-To: <449248E6.3080300@nicubunu.ro> References: <62416.194.94.224.254.1150358329.squirrel@arlette.freesurf.fr> <4491816B.7040800@redhat.com> <1150391414.5018.30.camel@ierofante> <449248E6.3080300@nicubunu.ro> Message-ID: <1150442005.2367.11.camel@ierofante> Il giorno ven, 16/06/2006 alle 09.00 +0300, Nicu Buculei ha scritto: > I do not think using the bubble in the puplet status icon is a god idea, > i think is a slippery slope: use the bubble for update status, for > network status, for whatever other functionality and suddenly the > desktop is all bubbles, hard to distinct the purpose of each of them. > More, at this small screen size, is very hard (impossible?) to use I agree, but i've introduced myself in the discussion on the (Fedora) yum/pup update icon. So thinking to a distinctive Fedora "sign" was only a proposal for one and only one icon. { maybe not the "bubble" but only the "f" character with arrows? } > something else than simple and clear shapes and still have something > recognizable - take as and example the SUSE icon mentioned in your blog > (http://koolinus.wordpress.com/2006/06/14/puplet), for me as an non-SUSE > user, it is completely unrecognizable, i can't tell its purpose from > the way it looks. Agree, but also the old up2date icon was "unclear" if one didn't verify its meaning. Just before reading your e-mail I was also looking at OS-Dir SUSE 10.1 screenshot and saw that they seems to have adopted the Tango software-update icon: http://tinyurl.com/z3pgs http://shots.osdir.com/slideshows/slideshow.php?release=637&slide=33 Ciao -- nicola .:kOoLiNuS:. losito http://www.koolinus.net http://koolinus.wordpress.com icq: 62837984 yahoo!: koolinus msn: koolinuz at hotmail.com jabber: koolinus at jabber.linux.it callto://nicola.losito Chiacchiera con i tuoi amici in tempo reale! http://it.yahoo.com/mail_it/foot/*http://it.messenger.yahoo.com From jfrieben at freesurf.fr Fri Jun 16 07:16:16 2006 From: jfrieben at freesurf.fr (Joachim Frieben) Date: Fri, 16 Jun 2006 09:16:16 +0200 (CEST) Subject: The Icon Question In-Reply-To: <4491D7F6.4040809@redhat.com> References: <4491D7F6.4040809@redhat.com> Message-ID: <24909.194.94.224.254.1150442176.squirrel@arlette.freesurf.fr> "Bluecurve" are isometric as well, and nevertheless, they work marvelously well down to resolutions of 24 pixels. Btw, I do prefer the isometric icons, too ;) As pointed out in my previous post, there are objective reasons which make "Bluecurve" perform so well (simple, good color scheme without excessive gradients/shades, distinct outlines, etc.). I wonder if you can take away all this without compromising the ergonomic level. > > We do have options in terms of giving the new icons more clarity at > smaller sizes. Modifying the palette to be a bit brighter is a good > idea. Also, we can institute a guideline of changing the perspective > of icons to be 'dead on' at sizes 24 px or less (and keep them > isometric at sizes > 24 px) > From nisses.mail at home.se Fri Jun 16 07:30:50 2006 From: nisses.mail at home.se (Andreas Nilsson) Date: Fri, 16 Jun 2006 09:30:50 +0200 Subject: The Icon Question In-Reply-To: <4491E652.6040408@redhat.com> References: <44919F9C.8060700@redhat.com> <65175.194.94.224.254.1150408223.squirrel@jose.freesurf.fr> <4491E44D.1070506@home.se> <4491E652.6040408@redhat.com> Message-ID: <44925E2A.8070908@home.se> M?ir?n Duffy wrote: > > > Andreas Nilsson wrote: > >> Joachim Frieben wrote: >> >>> "Bluecurve" has friendly, crisp looking icons due to a well chosen >>> color >>> scheme, consistent perspective, and noticeable outlines which improve >>> contrast. Icons are pictograms and as such -simplified- images of real >>> objects with the aim of easy recognizability. Photorealistic icons are >>> rather counterproductive, especially at small sizes. The >>> "cartoonish" look >>> of "Bluecurve" exactly fits this paradigm. In the "GNOME" panels and >>> menus, >>> a mere 24 pixels is the default size. This has to be kept in mind. >>> The attached screenshot shows the huge difference between "good" and >>> "bad" >>> design. The "Bluecurve" package icon is much more distinct than the >>> "puplet" >>> one (the latter is too small anyway). The new "gnome-power-manager" is >>> particularly poor. It looks slack and fuzzy and is weakly detached >>> from the >>> background. The dropshadow make things rather worse. The screenshot >>> speaks >>> for itself, doesn't it? I find it rather compelling in favour of >>> "Bluecurve". >>> >>> >>> >> Wow, quite a mix of styles. I spot icons in old-gnome-style, >> tango-style, bluecurve-style and this new fedora-style. Seems like >> you landed up in interface hell! :) > > > Right, but note this is a test release..... AKA 'not polished.' Let's > be fair here. If you run a test release.... Sorry if I came out sounding a bit silly. Anyway, regarding icons on the Linux desktop in general, we?re all in interface hell. Bluecurve tried to fix this problem [1], but was unsuccessfull (because noone ever released any sources I?ve been told) and now the Tango project is giving the idea another try. Perhaps it would be nice to discuss this during GUADEC. 1. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bluecurve - Andreas From thomas.canniot at laposte.net Fri Jun 16 08:06:43 2006 From: thomas.canniot at laposte.net (Thomas Canniot) Date: Fri, 16 Jun 2006 10:06:43 +0200 Subject: The Icon Question In-Reply-To: <1150396007.12849.8.camel@ierofante> References: <44760D11.6080200@redhat.com> <44919F9C.8060700@redhat.com> <1150396007.12849.8.camel@ierofante> Message-ID: <1150445204.2807.67.camel@MrTomLinux.workstation> Le jeudi 15 juin 2006 ? 20:26 +0200, nicola -kOoLiNuS- losito a ?crit : > Il giorno gio, 15/06/2006 alle 13.57 -0400, Diana Fong ha scritto: > > I therefore, feel like I might > > be poking at the hornet's nest a bit as I write this email to point to > > the recent additions I've made to > > http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Artwork/BluecurveAndBeyond and to inquire > > how you all feel about it. > > > I do prefer "set one". > I enjoy the more "squared" look of the icons. > > Also i do not think bluecurve to be cartoonish (did i say i love > comics ?) and think it is one of the most consistent and not > boring-in-the-long way icon sets. > > I also see the trash-icon as nice per se, but put on the FC5 default > deskop it "disappears" ad the computer icon (in a minor way). > > I've shared :-) From my point of view of Ambassador, I can tell that most of French people I know on our community forum get rig fo the Bluecurve icon set. Knowing if Bluecurve is used or not by the commuity can be very easy : we have a thread on our forum where people publish a screenshot of their desktop. ( http://www.fedora-france.org/modules/newbb/viewtopic.php?topic_id=5532&forum=15 ) It remains very rare that the Bluecurve icon set is used. And i understand them. I personaly found that bluecurve makes the desktop sad, its colours seem to be faded / washed out. But, more objectively, I agree with Diana about its inconsistences, and found her new one http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Artwork/BluecurveAndBeyond much more modern and pleasant to look. This is definitely a icon theme I will think a lot before getting rid of it, because if Diana reaches her aim of consisteny, it will be one of the most consistent gnome icon set ever made, with the new ubuntu icon theme as well. Bluecurve has done its way, but can't we have a bright and a high quality icon theme? Moreover, I feel that remaining with bluecurve is a problem in the development of new icons, as the art team will have to stick to the old-style theme. Finally, why do we have an Art team if they can't redecorate the whole house? Regards, -- Thomas Canniot http://www.fedoraproject.org/wiki/ThomasCanniot -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: signature.asc Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 189 bytes Desc: Ceci est une partie de message num?riquement sign?e URL: From nicu_fedora at nicubunu.ro Fri Jun 16 09:45:38 2006 From: nicu_fedora at nicubunu.ro (Nicu Buculei) Date: Fri, 16 Jun 2006 12:45:38 +0300 Subject: The Icon Question In-Reply-To: <1150445204.2807.67.camel@MrTomLinux.workstation> References: <44760D11.6080200@redhat.com> <44919F9C.8060700@redhat.com> <1150396007.12849.8.camel@ierofante> <1150445204.2807.67.camel@MrTomLinux.workstation> Message-ID: <44927DC2.8000409@nicubunu.ro> Thomas Canniot wrote: > From my point of view of Ambassador, I can tell that most of French > people I know on our community forum get rig fo the Bluecurve icon set. > Knowing if Bluecurve is used or not by the commuity can be very easy : > we have a thread on our forum where people publish a screenshot of their > desktop. > ( http://www.fedora-france.org/modules/newbb/viewtopic.php?topic_id=5532&forum=15 ) > It remains very rare that the Bluecurve icon set is used. And i > understand them. I doubt the value of this measurement, people posting screenshots of their desktop are not representative for the average user, they are more inclined to tweak and customize. -- nicu Cool Fedora wallpapers: http://fedora.nicubunu.ro/wallpapers/ Open Clip Art Library: http://www.openclipart.org my Fedora stuff: http://fedora.nicubunu.ro From jfrieben at freesurf.fr Fri Jun 16 10:47:20 2006 From: jfrieben at freesurf.fr (Joachim Frieben) Date: Fri, 16 Jun 2006 12:47:20 +0200 (CEST) Subject: The Icon Question In-Reply-To: <1150445204.2807.67.camel@MrTomLinux.workstation> References: <1150445204.2807.67.camel@MrTomLinux.workstation> Message-ID: <52548.194.94.224.254.1150454840.squirrel@arlette.freesurf.fr> I have the screenshots checked and the statement is simply not true. Apart from the KDE screenshots with glossy and shreaking icons, most others use a mixture of "Bluecurve" and "GNOME" icons. What is mor important is that there is *no* other preferred theme. What "Bluecurve" has suffered most from is that in its almost 4 years of existence, a sufficient coverage has never been achieved. This disavantage would have held for any other theme. And why do you call the colors faded out? Look e.g. at the "Administration / Security Level and Firewall" icon. Isn't that colorful? I for my case do not at all think that "Bluecurve" made my desktop sad. Stock "GNOME" actually did with its overall olive green color scheme. Finally, it's no a matter of "killing" or "getting rid of" the current "Bluecurve" theme. Choice equals freedom - right? - J > > > From my point of view of Ambassador, I can tell that most of French > people I know on our community forum get rig fo the Bluecurve icon set. > Knowing if Bluecurve is used or not by the commuity can be very easy : > we have a thread on our forum where people publish a screenshot of > their desktop. > ( > http://www.fedora-france.org/modules/newbb/viewtopic.php?topic_id=5532&forum=15> ) It remains very rare that the Bluecurve icon set is used. And i > understand them. > > I personaly found that bluecurve makes the desktop sad, its colours > seem to be faded / washed out. But, more objectively, I agree with > Diana about its inconsistences, and found her new one > http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Artwork/BluecurveAndBeyond much more > modern and pleasant to look. This is definitely a icon theme I will > think a lot before getting rid of it, because if Diana reaches her aim > of consisteny, it will be one of the most consistent gnome icon set > ever made, with the new ubuntu icon theme as well. > > Bluecurve has done its way, but can't we have a bright and a high > quality icon theme? > > Moreover, I feel that remaining with bluecurve is a problem in the > development of new icons, as the art team will have to stick to the > old-style theme. > > Finally, why do we have an Art team if they can't redecorate the whole > house? > > Regards, > > -- > Thomas Canniot > http://www.fedoraproject.org/wiki/ThomasCanniot From thomas.canniot at laposte.net Fri Jun 16 13:43:36 2006 From: thomas.canniot at laposte.net (Thomas Canniot) Date: Fri, 16 Jun 2006 15:43:36 +0200 Subject: The Icon Question In-Reply-To: <52548.194.94.224.254.1150454840.squirrel@arlette.freesurf.fr> References: <1150445204.2807.67.camel@MrTomLinux.workstation> <52548.194.94.224.254.1150454840.squirrel@arlette.freesurf.fr> Message-ID: <1150465416.2807.106.camel@MrTomLinux.workstation> Le vendredi 16 juin 2006 ? 12:47 +0200, Joachim Frieben a ?crit : > I have the screenshots checked and the statement is simply not true. Apart > from the KDE screenshots with glossy and shreaking icons, most others use a > mixture of "Bluecurve" and "GNOME" icons. What is mor important is that > there is *no* other preferred theme. > > What "Bluecurve" has suffered most from is that in its almost 4 years of > existence, a sufficient coverage has never been achieved. This disavantage > would have held for any other theme. > > And why do you call the colors faded out? Look e.g. at the "Administration / > Security Level and Firewall" icon. Isn't that colorful? I for my case do not > at all think that "Bluecurve" made my desktop sad. Stock "GNOME" actually > did with its overall olive green color scheme. > Finally, it's no a matter of "killing" or "getting rid of" the current > "Bluecurve" theme. Choice equals freedom - right? - J > Seems that I have not checked every pages of it. Sorry for the misleading :s However I would like to show you what I call faded out icons / sad : http://www.mrtomlinux.org/sadones.jpg I found these one lack colors. They are mainly grey and sometimes with pale blue and grey. They do not shine as much as they could. Moreover, I would like to compare Diana Applications menu and a Bluecurve menu. http://www.mrtomlinux.org/compare.jpg First, I'm sorry if I don't have the exactly same menu as Diana. About the Bluecurve icon, the 'blucurve accessories icon' is hardly identifiable. I prefer Diana pair of cissors and ruler. I found it more explicit, as cissors and ruler are concrete accessories someone use to achieve something. About the Office icon, the Bluecurve Bureatique icon lacks clarity as well. We can recognize a pie chart. The Diana Office icon is more explicit from my point of view : a pot with pens. However it seems to be smaller than the other icons. The Bluecurve Graphisme icon of Bluecurve is color and explicit. Great: Maybe one I like :) Diana as weel is explicit, colorful as well but seems to be smaller. The Blucurve Internet icon is sad and not explicit at all. It lacks colors, and we don't know what is reprensents. Diana's is of a nice bue with reflexion effect. It represents the earth (the World Wide Web) and a mouse cursor, symbol of computing. The Blucurve Outils Syst?me has colors and is explicit but not for this task I think. It should switch with the "Programmation" (coding) icon. Diana's Systemn Tools icon lack color and is not very explicit. This icon is the one I prefer the least. The blucurve "son et vid?o" icon is colorful, thanks to the yallow, but hardly explicit as video film and the loud speaker are not element one is used to see so close, it does not bring to mind as fast as it could what it represents. Diana's Sound & Video icon is great. Its black and white emphasises the colors of the other icons in the menu. It is very representative of the video part this menu is covering. The Add/Remove Software icon are quite the same. They both represent a box and a CD. However, I still prefer Diana icon, as its brown is more liveful than the pale blue and brown of the Bluecurve one. About the Games icon, (there is no Bluecurve games icon in this screenshot), Diana and Bluecurve are as much explicit. The bluecurve has 2 play cards and a pawn. This is two much and make the icon not clear enough. Diana's has 2 playcards, and no pawn, and I think this makes the icon more shiny and explicit. Finally, I want to say that I can't stand (I know it's very subjective) the black border of the Bluecurve icon. This makes them apart of the menu, whereas without this border, I feel the text and the icon are one and only one piece of artwork. -- Thomas Canniot http://www.fedoraproject.org/wiki/ThomasCanniot -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: signature.asc Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 189 bytes Desc: Ceci est une partie de message num?riquement sign?e URL: From duffy at redhat.com Fri Jun 16 14:52:11 2006 From: duffy at redhat.com (=?ISO-8859-1?Q?M=E1ir=EDn_Duffy?=) Date: Fri, 16 Jun 2006 10:52:11 -0400 Subject: The Icon Question In-Reply-To: <44925E2A.8070908@home.se> References: <44919F9C.8060700@redhat.com> <65175.194.94.224.254.1150408223.squirrel@jose.freesurf.fr> <4491E44D.1070506@home.se> <4491E652.6040408@redhat.com> <44925E2A.8070908@home.se> Message-ID: <4492C59B.8000908@redhat.com> Andreas Nilsson wrote: > Anyway, regardin g icons on the Linux desktop in general, we?re all in > interface hell. Bluecurve tried to fix this problem [1], but was > unsuccessfull (because noone ever released any sources I?ve been told) This isn't actually true. Garrett had the source Illustrator *.ai files available on his Red Hat people page for a long time, and Red Hat actually maintained that for a long while after he'd left Red Hat. It just wasn't publicized so well. > and now the Tango project is giving the idea another try. > Perhaps it would be nice to discuss this during GUADEC. > 1. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bluecurve I'll be there :) ~m From thomas.canniot at laposte.net Fri Jun 16 15:31:43 2006 From: thomas.canniot at laposte.net (Thomas Canniot) Date: Fri, 16 Jun 2006 17:31:43 +0200 Subject: The Icon Question In-Reply-To: <52548.194.94.224.254.1150454840.squirrel@arlette.freesurf.fr> References: <1150445204.2807.67.camel@MrTomLinux.workstation> <52548.194.94.224.254.1150454840.squirrel@arlette.freesurf.fr> Message-ID: <1150471903.2807.136.camel@MrTomLinux.workstation> I continue my personal analysis with the Places menu. It is called Raccourcis menu in French. The Bluecurve menu is still on your left and Diana's on your right. http://www.mrtomlinux.org/compare2.jpg The Bluecurve Home Folder Icon and Diana's represent the same thing. A folder and a home. However, where Bluecurve fails its prupose of integration is that the color used for the house (dark red) seems to be out of the color palet of bluecurve. Not Diana's The Bluecurve Desktop icon is not explicit enough. There are 3 objects composing this icon, and I can't tell you what they are. I can't identity each of them. Diana's drew a desk blotter. Quite explicit. The Computer icon are represent the same. The Bluecurve icon has a screen with a tower. Diana's is a screen alone. Not having a 'tower' near it should not be a problem as : what we are always looking at on our computers is the screen. Nobody looks at his tower when surfing the web, and some computer have little tower or it can be integrated in the screen somtimes (Apple) The CD/DVD Creator icon. Showing the same thing. About Network Icons, the idea seems to take th Computer icon and duplicate it 3 times. I personaly think that Diana's better, thanks to the default screen she added in the icon. It helps identifying that there are 3 screens on the icon. That is where Bluecurve fails, as the top screen does not look like a screen but as ... i don't know really. The dark border does not help to identify it better. Of course, we all know it is a computer, but is doesn't look like it. The Connect to server icon seems to be a difficult icon to draw, as an action and an object has ti be drawn. Bluecurve icon looks like a tower and mouse (at first sight, but seems to be a plug). Diana chose to only represent the tower. I don't know whici is best. The simpliest? The Bluecurve Search icon colors are clearly out of the Bluecurve palet and are not isometric. Diana's is much more integrated. The Recent Documents icon is not visible on Diana's screenshot. Again, I don't like the effect produce by the black border line around the icons. -- Thomas Canniot http://www.fedoraproject.org/wiki/ThomasCanniot -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: signature.asc Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 189 bytes Desc: Ceci est une partie de message num?riquement sign?e URL: From dfong at redhat.com Fri Jun 16 15:42:01 2006 From: dfong at redhat.com (Diana Fong) Date: Fri, 16 Jun 2006 11:42:01 -0400 Subject: The Icon Question In-Reply-To: <1150471903.2807.136.camel@MrTomLinux.workstation> References: <1150445204.2807.67.camel@MrTomLinux.workstation> <52548.194.94.224.254.1150454840.squirrel@arlette.freesurf.fr> <1150471903.2807.136.camel@MrTomLinux.workstation> Message-ID: <4492D149.8070804@redhat.com> *note...the office icon...one with the cup, pen and pencil is a deriv of the Tango svg. I didn't think it was a problem because we will be sharing and sharing alike and attributing Tango along with it's naming scheme and metaphors. Though we should probably figure out how Tango would like to be attributed...and if such things (as in the deriv of the office icon) is permissible. I apologize if the Office icon offended anyone. Diana From nicu_fedora at nicubunu.ro Fri Jun 16 17:27:36 2006 From: nicu_fedora at nicubunu.ro (Nicu Buculei) Date: Fri, 16 Jun 2006 20:27:36 +0300 Subject: The Icon Question In-Reply-To: <4492D149.8070804@redhat.com> References: <1150445204.2807.67.camel@MrTomLinux.workstation> <52548.194.94.224.254.1150454840.squirrel@arlette.freesurf.fr> <1150471903.2807.136.camel@MrTomLinux.workstation> <4492D149.8070804@redhat.com> Message-ID: <4492EA08.3010304@nicubunu.ro> Diana Fong wrote: > *note...the office icon...one with the cup, pen and pencil is a deriv of > the Tango svg. > I didn't think it was a problem because we will be sharing and sharing > alike and attributing Tango along with it's naming scheme and > metaphors. Though we should probably figure out how Tango would like to > be attributed...and if such things (as in the deriv of the office icon) > is permissible. What license is used for the new icons? GPL? I am not an expert, but I am not sure is OK to make a derivative of an icon licensed as CC Attribution Share-Alike and publish it as GPL. From duffy at redhat.com Fri Jun 16 20:17:52 2006 From: duffy at redhat.com (=?ISO-8859-1?Q?M=E1ir=EDn_Duffy?=) Date: Fri, 16 Jun 2006 16:17:52 -0400 Subject: The Icon Question In-Reply-To: <4492EA08.3010304@nicubunu.ro> References: <1150445204.2807.67.camel@MrTomLinux.workstation> <52548.194.94.224.254.1150454840.squirrel@arlette.freesurf.fr> <1150471903.2807.136.camel@MrTomLinux.workstation> <4492D149.8070804@redhat.com> <4492EA08.3010304@nicubunu.ro> Message-ID: <449311F0.10505@redhat.com> Nicu Buculei wrote: > > What license is used for the new icons? GPL? > I am not an expert, but I am not sure is OK to make a derivative of an > icon licensed as CC Attribution Share-Alike and publish it as GPL. It seems like our choices for choosing a license are now limited, then. ~m From gavindi at iinet.net.au Sat Jun 17 09:49:14 2006 From: gavindi at iinet.net.au (Gavin Graham) Date: Sat, 17 Jun 2006 19:49:14 +1000 Subject: The Icon Question In-Reply-To: <20060615215039.0091A73221@hormel.redhat.com> References: <20060615215039.0091A73221@hormel.redhat.com> Message-ID: <1150537754.2879.10.camel@montego.arkpandora.com> On Thu, 2006-06-15 at 17:50 -0400, fedora-art-list-request at redhat.com wrote: > ------------------------------ > > Message: 5 > Date: Thu, 15 Jun 2006 15:54:36 -0300 > From: Steven Garrity > Subject: Re: The Icon Question > To: "Discussions about the artwork included with Fedora, including > icons, themes, and wallpapers." > Message-ID: <4491ACEC.4050400 at silverorange.com> > Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed > <------Snip-----> > > I don't want to sound like a broken record on this, so feel free to read > it and move on, but I wonder if it makes sense to create an entire new > icon style. With people running applications from so many sources (it's > not uncommon to see OpenOffice next to Firefox next to Evolution next to > Konqueror), will we ever be able to keep up with the needs for icons in > all of these apps if every distro has it's own icon style? > > I can understand the need for visual differentiation, and make a style > worth converging on hasn't been created yet, but creating something > Fedora-specific when so much great work has been going up-stream doesn't > feel like the best path. <-----Snip-----> > > Cheers, > Steven Garrity > Hi, Firstly, Let me introduce myself to this list. My name is Gavin ("Duh!") and I was the author of two visual projects some time ago whi one was 'FireCurveBlue' the Bluecurve theme for Firefox and the other was the "ArkPandora" Arial & Times New Roman Font Replacement which I discontinued in favour of the Deja Vu Fonts. Steven, I agree with you and sometimes it seems to me that work like this could be re-inventing the wheel. Even Bluecurve itself had dropped some elements and as a result, Bluecurve now uses Clearlooks. The point I am trying to make here is that there are some really good icon set out there already so can Fedora make their individual defining appeal without starting from scratch? Cheers, Gavin Graham From chitlesh at fedoraproject.org Mon Jun 19 16:55:08 2006 From: chitlesh at fedoraproject.org (Chitlesh GOORAH) Date: Mon, 19 Jun 2006 18:55:08 +0200 Subject: CD Cover Message-ID: <13dbfe4f0606190955x5f5754e4r34ad40b032eca8e0@mail.gmail.com> Hello, Do we (the fedora project) already have an example/mockup of CD Cover for the next official release ready for download and print ? I am looking for one so that I could customize it for a possible fedora livecd. Chitlesh -- http://clunixchit.blogspot.com From dfong at redhat.com Mon Jun 19 17:05:29 2006 From: dfong at redhat.com (Diana Fong) Date: Mon, 19 Jun 2006 13:05:29 -0400 Subject: CD Cover In-Reply-To: <13dbfe4f0606190955x5f5754e4r34ad40b032eca8e0@mail.gmail.com> References: <13dbfe4f0606190955x5f5754e4r34ad40b032eca8e0@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <4496D959.9070305@redhat.com> No, but the one designed by marketing for FC5 used in LinuxWorld 2006 is generic enough for you to use/costumize...Should change the "5" to a "6" though. http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Artwork/CDArt?highlight=%28cd%29 Diana > Hello, > > Do we (the fedora project) already have an example/mockup of CD Cover > for the next official release ready for download and print ? > > I am looking for one so that I could customize it for a possible > fedora livecd. > > Chitlesh From duffy at redhat.com Mon Jun 19 17:10:55 2006 From: duffy at redhat.com (=?ISO-8859-1?Q?M=E1ir=EDn_Duffy?=) Date: Mon, 19 Jun 2006 13:10:55 -0400 Subject: CD Cover In-Reply-To: <13dbfe4f0606190955x5f5754e4r34ad40b032eca8e0@mail.gmail.com> References: <13dbfe4f0606190955x5f5754e4r34ad40b032eca8e0@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <4496DA9F.3050204@redhat.com> Chitlesh GOORAH wrote: > Hello, > > Do we (the fedora project) already have an example/mockup of CD Cover > for the next official release ready for download and print ? > > I am looking for one so that I could customize it for a possible fedora > livecd. Nicu has made a nice one you can adapt (or I'm sure he'd be glad to adapt for you): http://www.deviantart.com/deviation/31418451/ We haven't set on a graphical theme for FC 6 yet, though. I'll be sending out a big email about that soon. :) ~m From chitlesh at fedoraproject.org Mon Jun 19 17:20:13 2006 From: chitlesh at fedoraproject.org (Chitlesh GOORAH) Date: Mon, 19 Jun 2006 19:20:13 +0200 Subject: CD Cover In-Reply-To: <4496DA9F.3050204@redhat.com> References: <13dbfe4f0606190955x5f5754e4r34ad40b032eca8e0@mail.gmail.com> <4496DA9F.3050204@redhat.com> Message-ID: <13dbfe4f0606191020g3adbe006n87d2258ee9c2bfbe@mail.gmail.com> On 6/19/06, M?ir?n Duffy wrote: > Nicu has made a nice one you can adapt (or I'm sure he'd be glad to adapt for you): > > http://www.deviantart.com/deviation/31418451/ I like this one (though firefox does not open it correctly) http://ic1.deviantart.com/fs10/f/2006/096/a/7/cdlabel_bubbles.svg -- http://clunixchit.blogspot.com From dfong at redhat.com Mon Jun 19 20:01:22 2006 From: dfong at redhat.com (Diana Fong) Date: Mon, 19 Jun 2006 16:01:22 -0400 Subject: The Icon Question In-Reply-To: <4492EA08.3010304@nicubunu.ro> References: <1150445204.2807.67.camel@MrTomLinux.workstation> <52548.194.94.224.254.1150454840.squirrel@arlette.freesurf.fr> <1150471903.2807.136.camel@MrTomLinux.workstation> <4492D149.8070804@redhat.com> <4492EA08.3010304@nicubunu.ro> Message-ID: <44970292.1020907@redhat.com> afaik...we will be using a similar, if not the same license as Tango. Diana Nicu Buculei wrote: > Diana Fong wrote: >> *note...the office icon...one with the cup, pen and pencil is a deriv >> of the Tango svg. >> I didn't think it was a problem because we will be sharing and >> sharing alike and attributing Tango along with it's naming scheme and >> metaphors. Though we should probably figure out how Tango would like >> to be attributed...and if such things (as in the deriv of the office >> icon) is permissible. > > What license is used for the new icons? GPL? > I am not an expert, but I am not sure is OK to make a derivative of an > icon licensed as CC Attribution Share-Alike and publish it as GPL. > > _______________________________________________ > Fedora-art-list mailing list > Fedora-art-list at redhat.com > http://www.redhat.com/mailman/listinfo/fedora-art-list From duffy at redhat.com Mon Jun 19 22:15:25 2006 From: duffy at redhat.com (=?ISO-8859-1?Q?M=E1ir=EDn_Duffy?=) Date: Mon, 19 Jun 2006 18:15:25 -0400 Subject: A Fresh Look for Fedora Core 6 Message-ID: <449721FD.6070606@redhat.com> Hi everybody, So, as is suggested by https://bugzilla.redhat.com/bugzilla/show_bug.cgi?id=186940#c1, we're looking for a new 'look' to theme Fedora Core 6 with and would like to open up up the FC6 theming process to the community! What kinds of stuff are we looking to theme? There's a pretty comprehensive list with examples on the wiki: http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Artwork/ThemingOverview Most anything there is fair game - wallpapers, screensavers, splash screens, etc. Some additional items that are not mentioned on the wiki list include the openoffice.org splash screen and the eclipse splash screen. I started a page where we could start throwing some ideas together and I put some stuff I've been working on up for a start: http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Artwork/ThemeSubmissions Feel free to grab the svgs and play around with them or submit your own artwork. Test 1 is already out so the deadline looms over us already.... ( ^^;;) ~m -- M?ir?n Duffy Interaction Designer Red Hat Network :: Red Hat, Inc. Westford, MA From sundaram at fedoraproject.org Tue Jun 20 19:35:32 2006 From: sundaram at fedoraproject.org (Rahul Sundaram) Date: Wed, 21 Jun 2006 01:05:32 +0530 Subject: A Fresh Look for Fedora Core 6 In-Reply-To: <449721FD.6070606@redhat.com> References: <449721FD.6070606@redhat.com> Message-ID: <1150832132.20056.32.camel@sundaram.pnq.redhat.com> On Mon, 2006-06-19 at 18:15 -0400, M?ir?n Duffy wrote: > Hi everybody, > > So, as is suggested by > https://bugzilla.redhat.com/bugzilla/show_bug.cgi?id=186940#c1, we're looking > for a new 'look' to theme Fedora Core 6 with and would like to open up up the > FC6 theming process to the community! > > What kinds of stuff are we looking to theme? There's a pretty comprehensive list > with examples on the wiki: > > http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Artwork/ThemingOverview > > Most anything there is fair game - wallpapers, screensavers, splash screens, > etc. Some additional items that are not mentioned on the wiki list include the > openoffice.org splash screen and the eclipse splash screen. > > I started a page where we could start throwing some ideas together and I put > some stuff I've been working on up for a start: > > http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Artwork/ThemeSubmissions > > Feel free to grab the svgs and play around with them or submit your own artwork. > Test 1 is already out so the deadline looms over us already.... ( ^^;;) A wider announcement to fedora-announce list or atleast a note on fedoranews.org would be good. Rahul From chitlesh at fedoraproject.org Tue Jun 20 19:53:24 2006 From: chitlesh at fedoraproject.org (Chitlesh GOORAH) Date: Tue, 20 Jun 2006 21:53:24 +0200 Subject: A Fresh Look for Fedora Core 6 In-Reply-To: <1150832132.20056.32.camel@sundaram.pnq.redhat.com> References: <449721FD.6070606@redhat.com> <1150832132.20056.32.camel@sundaram.pnq.redhat.com> Message-ID: <13dbfe4f0606201253x6bfbb7drff72ab1e19076109@mail.gmail.com> On 6/20/06, Rahul Sundaram wrote: > A wider announcement to fedora-announce list or atleast a note on > fedoranews.org would be good. > Already on my blog on FedoraNews :) http://fedoranews.org/cms/node/1204 Chitlesh -- http://clunixchit.blogspot.com From stickster at gmail.com Tue Jun 20 23:42:52 2006 From: stickster at gmail.com (Paul W. Frields) Date: Tue, 20 Jun 2006 19:42:52 -0400 Subject: A Fresh Look for Fedora Core 6 In-Reply-To: <13dbfe4f0606201253x6bfbb7drff72ab1e19076109@mail.gmail.com> References: <449721FD.6070606@redhat.com> <1150832132.20056.32.camel@sundaram.pnq.redhat.com> <13dbfe4f0606201253x6bfbb7drff72ab1e19076109@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <1150846972.13600.24.camel@localhost.localdomain> On Tue, 2006-06-20 at 21:53 +0200, Chitlesh GOORAH wrote: > On 6/20/06, Rahul Sundaram wrote: > > A wider announcement to fedora-announce list or atleast a note on > > fedoranews.org would be good. > > > > Already on my blog on FedoraNews :) > http://fedoranews.org/cms/node/1204 Not everyone subscribes to the blog feeds. /me is an example. A story would be equally good, maybe better. -- Paul W. Frields, RHCE http://paul.frields.org/ gpg fingerprint: 3DA6 A0AC 6D58 FEC4 0233 5906 ACDB C937 BD11 3717 Fedora Project Board: http://www.fedoraproject.org/wiki/Board Fedora Documentation Project: http://fedora.redhat.com/projects/docs/ -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: signature.asc Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 189 bytes Desc: This is a digitally signed message part URL: From tchung at fedoraproject.org Tue Jun 20 23:47:40 2006 From: tchung at fedoraproject.org (Thomas Chung) Date: Tue, 20 Jun 2006 16:47:40 -0700 Subject: A Fresh Look for Fedora Core 6 In-Reply-To: <1150846972.13600.24.camel@localhost.localdomain> References: <449721FD.6070606@redhat.com> <1150832132.20056.32.camel@sundaram.pnq.redhat.com> <13dbfe4f0606201253x6bfbb7drff72ab1e19076109@mail.gmail.com> <1150846972.13600.24.camel@localhost.localdomain> Message-ID: <369bce3b0606201647h33421182uaa7e92e7c23af9e@mail.gmail.com> On 6/20/06, Paul W. Frields wrote: > On Tue, 2006-06-20 at 21:53 +0200, Chitlesh GOORAH wrote: > > On 6/20/06, Rahul Sundaram wrote: > > > A wider announcement to fedora-announce list or atleast a note on > > > fedoranews.org would be good. > > > > > > > Already on my blog on FedoraNews :) > > http://fedoranews.org/cms/node/1204 > > Not everyone subscribes to the blog feeds. /me is an example. A story > would be equally good, maybe better. Ok, I'll include it in the next issue FWN. :) -- Thomas Chung http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/ThomasChung From andy at andycc.net Thu Jun 29 11:56:02 2006 From: andy at andycc.net (Andy Shellam) Date: Thu, 29 Jun 2006 12:56:02 +0100 Subject: Grub Splash in FC5 Message-ID: Hi, Hopefully this is the place for this question! I've been trying to customize the grub splash screen (and eventually I'll do the bootsplash as well). Having found numerous tutorials on the web, all saying different things, I think I've found the correct way to do it - however, Grub now just loads with a blank screen (i.e. black background, white text.) Here's what I've done: - Created a 640x480, indexed 14 colour image using the GIMP (both from a Windows box and on Linux) - Saved the image as splash.xpm.gz and replaced /boot/grub/splash.xpm.gz with it - Re-ran "grub-install /dev/hda" (I don't think is necessarily needed, but I tried it anyway) - Saved the image as a non-compressed .xpm (in /boot/grub/splash.xpm) and modified the "splashimage" line in /boot/grub/menu.lst to point to this I've just about exhausted all options I can find - anyone here have any ideas? Thanks Andy -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: