From baerjj at gmail.com Thu Feb 1 01:19:02 2007 From: baerjj at gmail.com (John Baer) Date: Wed, 31 Jan 2007 20:19:02 -0500 Subject: FC7ThemeProposalEnergyInterferences In-Reply-To: <20070131170007.90D9673895@hormel.redhat.com> References: <20070131170007.90D9673895@hormel.redhat.com> Message-ID: <1170292742.3695.30.camel@localhost.localdomain> Nicu wrote: > Each time this came into discuss, the majority of *contributors* > opted > for a personalized icon theme and were against using Tango directly > as-is, use at least a variant of Tango (as Mairin replied). +1 This is exactly what I suggest. In fact I am using a modified Tango icon set on my computer and by changing the *folder* icon the presentation is completely changed. I placed an example titled *Fedora Folders* here. http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/JohnBaer IMO this makes a lot of sense. John From chitlesh at fedoraproject.org Thu Feb 1 01:28:10 2007 From: chitlesh at fedoraproject.org (Chitlesh GOORAH) Date: Thu, 1 Feb 2007 02:28:10 +0100 Subject: FC7ThemeProposalEnergyInterferences In-Reply-To: <1170292742.3695.30.camel@localhost.localdomain> References: <20070131170007.90D9673895@hormel.redhat.com> <1170292742.3695.30.camel@localhost.localdomain> Message-ID: <13dbfe4f0701311728m56c21820o44311379bcd119e0@mail.gmail.com> On 2/1/07, John Baer wrote: > I placed an example titled *Fedora Folders* here. > > http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/JohnBaer > > IMO this makes a lot of sense. hmm a windows logo ?? Chitlesh -- http://clunixchit.blogspot.com From sdl.web at gmail.com Thu Feb 1 01:33:11 2007 From: sdl.web at gmail.com (Leo) Date: Thu, 01 Feb 2007 01:33:11 +0000 Subject: FC7ThemeProposalEnergyInterferences References: <20070131170007.90D9673895@hormel.redhat.com> <1170292742.3695.30.camel@localhost.localdomain> Message-ID: On 2007-02-01, John Baer said: > Nicu wrote: >> Each time this came into discuss, the majority of *contributors* >> opted >> for a personalized icon theme and were against using Tango directly >> as-is, use at least a variant of Tango (as Mairin replied). > > +1 > > This is exactly what I suggest. In fact I am using a modified Tango icon > set on my computer and by changing the *folder* icon the presentation is > completely changed. > > I placed an example titled *Fedora Folders* here. > > http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/JohnBaer > > IMO this makes a lot of sense. > > John That folder alone looks awesome. I hope we come up with a solution for the icon theme for Fedora 7. I have made some noise back in this thread?. Now 2 months have passed. Sigh, I am still wondering. Footnotes: ? http://news.gmane.org/group/gmane.linux.redhat.fedora.desktop/thread=2045/force_load=t -- Leo (GPG Key: 9283AA3F) From nicu_fedora at nicubunu.ro Thu Feb 1 06:33:12 2007 From: nicu_fedora at nicubunu.ro (Nicu Buculei) Date: Thu, 01 Feb 2007 08:33:12 +0200 Subject: FC7ThemeProposalEnergyInterferences In-Reply-To: <1170292742.3695.30.camel@localhost.localdomain> References: <20070131170007.90D9673895@hormel.redhat.com> <1170292742.3695.30.camel@localhost.localdomain> Message-ID: <45C189A8.1000908@nicubunu.ro> John Baer wrote: > Nicu wrote: >> Each time this came into discuss, the majority of *contributors* >> opted >> for a personalized icon theme and were against using Tango directly >> as-is, use at least a variant of Tango (as Mairin replied). > > +1 > > This is exactly what I suggest. In fact I am using a modified Tango icon > set on my computer and by changing the *folder* icon the presentation is > completely changed. Back when we were talking about Bluecurve I proposed to refresh it by changing a few very visible icons, starting with the folder. So we are in agreement here. > I placed an example titled *Fedora Folders* here. > > http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/JohnBaer Sorry, but this is the Vista folder icon. If we change the folder icon it should remain consistent with the rest of the theme: perspective, colors, outline, highlight, shadow. -- nicu Cool Fedora wallpapers: http://fedora.nicubunu.ro/wallpapers/ Open Clip Art Library: http://www.openclipart.org my Fedora stuff: http://fedora.nicubunu.ro From baerjj at gmail.com Thu Feb 1 14:00:14 2007 From: baerjj at gmail.com (John Baer) Date: Thu, 1 Feb 2007 09:00:14 -0500 Subject: Icons for FC7 Message-ID: <484ace5d0702010600m12e448e7ie0eb6efbc5310235@mail.gmail.com> I changed the subject of this thread as it seems to be heading in a new direction. :) Nicu wrote: > > John Baer wrote: > > Nicu wrote: > >> Each time this came into discuss, the majority of *contributors* > >> opted > >> for a personalized icon theme and were against using Tango directly > >> as-is, use at least a variant of Tango (as Mairin replied). > > > > +1 > > > > This is exactly what I suggest. In fact I am using a modified Tango icon > > set on my computer and by changing the *folder* icon the presentation is > > completely changed. > > Back when we were talking about Bluecurve I proposed to refresh it by > changing a few very visible icons, starting with the folder. So we are > in agreement here. > > > I placed an example titled *Fedora Folders* here. > > > > http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/JohnBaer > > Sorry, but this is the Vista folder icon. If we change the folder icon > it should remain consistent with the rest of the theme: perspective, > colors, outline, highlight, shadow. > > -- > nicu +1 The folders I posted were simply examples and was not meant to be a submission. :) If the team is in agreement and there is time to accomplish this for FC7 the first decision to agree to is the base theme. The two mentioned are Tango and Bluecurve. Are there others? The second decision the team needs to agree on are the icons to be *refreshed*. IMO less is more. Last, what is the deadline. IMO this effort is not an attempt to change any of the current development of *echo* but rather provides additional time to grow and mature the project. Does anyone know why we shouldn't go forward with this? John -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From baerjj at gmail.com Fri Feb 2 01:53:02 2007 From: baerjj at gmail.com (John Baer) Date: Thu, 01 Feb 2007 20:53:02 -0500 Subject: Flying High with Fedora 7 - More 3D Message-ID: <1170381182.6047.4.camel@localhost.localdomain> Posted a revised wallpaper to the white board with more 3d elements. http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Artwork/FC7Themes/Fc7ThemeProposalFlyingHighRound2 +1 or -1 John From chitlesh at fedoraproject.org Fri Feb 2 06:35:27 2007 From: chitlesh at fedoraproject.org (Chitlesh GOORAH) Date: Fri, 2 Feb 2007 07:35:27 +0100 Subject: Flying High with Fedora 7 - More 3D In-Reply-To: <1170381182.6047.4.camel@localhost.localdomain> References: <1170381182.6047.4.camel@localhost.localdomain> Message-ID: <13dbfe4f0702012235i601062e4xf51807958a787e02@mail.gmail.com> On 2/2/07, John Baer wrote: > Posted a revised wallpaper to the white board with more 3d elements. > > http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Artwork/FC7Themes/Fc7ThemeProposalFlyingHighRound2 > > +1 or -1 I see improvement :) great work, keep it up but I don't like the grey/brown color for try3 and try4 Chitlesh -- http://clunixchit.blogspot.com From uno at webworks.se Fri Feb 2 07:44:30 2007 From: uno at webworks.se (Uno Engborg) Date: Fri, 02 Feb 2007 08:44:30 +0100 Subject: Flying High with Fedora 7 - More 3D In-Reply-To: <1170381182.6047.4.camel@localhost.localdomain> References: <1170381182.6047.4.camel@localhost.localdomain> Message-ID: <1170402270.31417.13.camel@localhost.localdomain> tor 2007-02-01 klockan 20:53 -0500 skrev John Baer: > Posted a revised wallpaper to the white board with more 3d elements. > > http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Artwork/FC7Themes/Fc7ThemeProposalFlyingHighRound2 > > +1 or -1 > > John The new 3d stuff looks great. However, drop the "Monolith" it only makes sense to Stanley Kubrick fans. To others, it looks more like a gravestone. Apart from bad grave associations, it draws a little too much attention to itself. Regards Uno Engborg From baerjj at gmail.com Fri Feb 2 11:04:52 2007 From: baerjj at gmail.com (John Baer) Date: Fri, 02 Feb 2007 06:04:52 -0500 Subject: Flying High with Fedora 7 - More Message-ID: <1170414292.5143.1.camel@localhost.localdomain> All, Added a RHGB screen to match *more 3d* wallpaper. http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Artwork/FC7Themes/Fc7ThemeProposalFlyingHighRound2 :) John From uno at webworks.se Fri Feb 2 12:06:52 2007 From: uno at webworks.se (Uno Engborg) Date: Fri, 02 Feb 2007 13:06:52 +0100 Subject: Flying High with Fedora 7 - More In-Reply-To: <1170414292.5143.1.camel@localhost.localdomain> References: <1170414292.5143.1.camel@localhost.localdomain> Message-ID: <45C3295C.3040702@webworks.se> John Baer wrote: > All, > > Added a RHGB screen to match *more 3d* wallpaper. > > http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Artwork/FC7Themes/Fc7ThemeProposalFlyingHighRound2 > > :) > > John > Looks good. BTW. The monolith, on the standard desktop background, without the blue balloon outline looks much better than the one with the balloon, as it gives a much calmer impression. It looks a little more 3D-ish than the one with the balloon, this is also a good thing. Though, I still think that you would be better off without the gravestone monolith altogether. If you decide to keep it, try to make it slightly more 3D-ish. That way you would get a better feeling of depth in the picture. Actually the best screen to use as standard desktop would be the one with the clouds up in the top right corner. (flyinghigh-r2_fullscreen-normal-ratio.svg). It is calm with no nonsense. In fact it is even a bit boring which actually is a good thing for desktop backgrounds as it will not draw attention from your work. Perhaps the balloons and clouds could have a little smother 3D look though. Regards Uno Engborg From baerjj at gmail.com Fri Feb 2 23:04:28 2007 From: baerjj at gmail.com (John Baer) Date: Fri, 02 Feb 2007 18:04:28 -0500 Subject: Flying High with Fedora 7 Message-ID: <1170457468.4357.5.camel@localhost.localdomain> All, Still trying to stay 3-D and bold, I posted a new wallpaper with no monolith for your consideration. Let me know your thoughts and thank you for your comments. http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Artwork/FC7Themes/Fc7ThemeProposalFlyingHighRound2 Cheers, John From luya_tfz at thefinalzone.com Sat Feb 3 00:05:56 2007 From: luya_tfz at thefinalzone.com (Luya Tshimbalanga) Date: Fri, 02 Feb 2007 16:05:56 -0800 Subject: Echo theme for Firefox concept Message-ID: <45C3D1E4.6070008@thefinalzone.com> I just stumbled on a Fedora Forum topic [1]. It displays a concept of Firefox theme using Echo icons. Any comments? [1]http://www.fedoraforum.org/forum/showpost.php?p=693252&postcount=36 -- ??D0 References: <1170457468.4357.5.camel@localhost.localdomain> Message-ID: <45C4A7CB.7050903@webworks.se> John Baer wrote: > All, > > Still trying to stay 3-D and bold, I posted a new wallpaper with no > monolith for your consideration. Let me know your thoughts and thank you > for your comments. > > http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Artwork/FC7Themes/Fc7ThemeProposalFlyingHighRound2 > Well, at least my friends doesn't refer to it as the gravestone theme anymore. However, now the blue blowtorch flame like thing in the center gets a bit too dominating, at least at the bottom close to the cloud where it almost looks like a solid blue body. Another thing, the image is very static (with or without monolith). You divide the screen equally in a right and a left part. If we expect users to use whatever artifacts we put in the background as landmarks for finding icons, that would be easier if we had a slight asymmetry. This is how our brain works, and probably why you often see golden cut size relations in art. A slight asymmetry often feels more dynamic and interesting. I would also suggest making the balloons a bit larger. That way icons will be easier to spot. They would also be large enough to provide landmarks for navigation instead of the blue flame, in case you removed it. Another suggestion is to change the places of the balloons, so that the lower balloon is centered (with respect to left/right axis) somewhere close to the clouds , where the flame is now. That way you would avoid the exact divide in two equal left and right side of the screen. I would also suggest that you flip the position of the balloons so that the upper balloon is the rightmost one. That way it would probably also look better together with the normal computer and trash icons you normally have to the left side of the screen. In other words the screen image including standard icons would look more balanced. If you decide to keep the flame, does it have to go up at 90 degree angle to the clouds? By tilting it a little e.g. to the right, you would get a more dynamic looking image, that looked less like the start of a nuclear attack. By placing one balloon in front of the flame and one behind it you could increase the sense of depth in the image. Regards Uno Engborg -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: smime.p7s Type: application/x-pkcs7-signature Size: 3271 bytes Desc: S/MIME Cryptographic Signature URL: From chitlesh at fedoraproject.org Sun Feb 4 14:57:16 2007 From: chitlesh at fedoraproject.org (Chitlesh GOORAH) Date: Sun, 4 Feb 2007 15:57:16 +0100 Subject: one echo icon on kde toolbar Message-ID: <13dbfe4f0702040657r5cb6e1a1p7061ed2f015f9b5d@mail.gmail.com> Hello there, I was hacking down, wanted to put at least one icon on the kde toolbar. I did it :) at least one. well what i did is: 1- i took another kde icon theme 2- with gimp, i converted the go-up.png of 24x24/actions to 22x22 3- rename it to up.png (symbolic links aren't working :( ) 4- replace up.png of 22x22/actions of the kde icon theme by [3] 5- created a tarball of my modified kde icon theme 6- from kcontrol, I imported the icon-theme and voil? http://flickr.com/photos/clunixchit/379244277/ I guess for kde, there must be 22x22 icons and symbolic links should be treated properly. Chitlesh -- http://clunixchit.blogspot.com From chitlesh at fedoraproject.org Sun Feb 4 17:54:42 2007 From: chitlesh at fedoraproject.org (Chitlesh GOORAH) Date: Sun, 4 Feb 2007 18:54:42 +0100 Subject: patch: presence of echo-icon-theme on kde Message-ID: <13dbfe4f0702040954x4b3bdb28m45d5dc664b298775@mail.gmail.com> Hello there, here is a patch for echo-icon-theme presence on KDE: http://bugzilla.redhat.com/bugzilla/attachment.cgi?id=147311 Screenshot: http://bugzilla.redhat.com/bugzilla/attachment.cgi?id=147310 Bug Report: http://bugzilla.redhat.com/bugzilla/show_bug.cgi?id=217832 cheers, Chitlesh -- http://clunixchit.blogspot.com From baerjj at gmail.com Mon Feb 5 00:46:54 2007 From: baerjj at gmail.com (John Baer) Date: Sun, 04 Feb 2007 19:46:54 -0500 Subject: Flying High with Fedora 7 Message-ID: <1170636414.5661.5.camel@localhost.localdomain> All, I hope I am not wallpapering all of you to death but IMO it is critical to get the wall paper correct. Struggling with the direction *monolith* idea I decided to try something from my original thoughts and the hot air balloons in the clouds. Given the chance to start over I also decided to *lighten* the colors as requested early on. The theme is not a bold as the *monolith* thread but it works. I welcome your comments. http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Artwork/FC7Themes/Fc7ThemeProposalFlyingHighRound2 Cheers, John From uno at webworks.se Mon Feb 5 02:25:43 2007 From: uno at webworks.se (Uno Engborg) Date: Mon, 05 Feb 2007 03:25:43 +0100 Subject: Flying High with Fedora 7 In-Reply-To: <1170636414.5661.5.camel@localhost.localdomain> References: <1170636414.5661.5.camel@localhost.localdomain> Message-ID: <45C695A7.60707@webworks.se> John Baer wrote: > All, > > I hope I am not wallpapering all of you to death but IMO it is critical > to get the wall paper correct. Struggling with the direction *monolith* > idea I decided to try something from my original thoughts and the hot > air balloons in the clouds. > > Given the chance to start over I also decided to *lighten* the colors as > requested early on. The theme is not a bold as the *monolith* thread but > it works. > > I welcome your comments. > > http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Artwork/FC7Themes/Fc7ThemeProposalFlyingHighRound2 > > Cheers, > > John > > > The clouds wallpaper looks VERY good. Almost no small details that could hide icons. Yet, enough detail to provide landmarks to memorize icon positions. It's lighter this means less contrasts between the desktop and document windows that usually are light in color. This means less strain on the eyes. And above all, it looks beautiful and discrete in the same time. Now it would be nice if the lighter blue color of the "Clouds" wallpaper could rub off on other parts of the GUI, e.g. such as login screen. Regards Uno Engborg -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: smime.p7s Type: application/x-pkcs7-signature Size: 3271 bytes Desc: S/MIME Cryptographic Signature URL: From jjmasek at gmail.com Mon Feb 5 06:05:41 2007 From: jjmasek at gmail.com (Jiri Jakub Masek) Date: Mon, 5 Feb 2007 07:05:41 +0100 Subject: Flying High with Fedora 7 In-Reply-To: <1170636414.5661.5.camel@localhost.localdomain> References: <1170636414.5661.5.camel@localhost.localdomain> Message-ID: Hi John, it looks fine JJM 2007/2/5, John Baer : > > All, > > I hope I am not wallpapering all of you to death but IMO it is critical > to get the wall paper correct. Struggling with the direction *monolith* > idea I decided to try something from my original thoughts and the hot > air balloons in the clouds. > > Given the chance to start over I also decided to *lighten* the colors as > requested early on. The theme is not a bold as the *monolith* thread but > it works. > > I welcome your comments. > > > http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Artwork/FC7Themes/Fc7ThemeProposalFlyingHighRound2 > > Cheers, > > John > > > > _______________________________________________ > Fedora-art-list mailing list > Fedora-art-list at redhat.com > http://www.redhat.com/mailman/listinfo/fedora-art-list > -- I'm still learning English... Ji?? Jakub Ma?ek - Mr Jiri Jakub Masek Czech Republic, European Union http://jjm.xf.cz -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From nicu_fedora at nicubunu.ro Mon Feb 5 07:12:35 2007 From: nicu_fedora at nicubunu.ro (Nicu Buculei) Date: Mon, 05 Feb 2007 09:12:35 +0200 Subject: Flying High with Fedora 7 In-Reply-To: <1170636414.5661.5.camel@localhost.localdomain> References: <1170636414.5661.5.camel@localhost.localdomain> Message-ID: <45C6D8E3.7010109@nicubunu.ro> John Baer wrote: > > Given the chance to start over I also decided to *lighten* the colors as > requested early on. The theme is not a bold as the *monolith* thread but > it works. > > I welcome your comments. > > http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Artwork/FC7Themes/Fc7ThemeProposalFlyingHighRound2 I find it unbalanced: the clouds look very realistic (and very good) but the balloons look very minimal. I am right when I say the light sources are inconsistent? on the clouds it appears to come from left and on the balloons it appears to come from right. Are you sure you used the wordmark correctly? It seems to have an incorrect thickness of the font. -- nicu Cool Fedora wallpapers: http://fedora.nicubunu.ro/wallpapers/ Open Clip Art Library: http://www.openclipart.org my Fedora stuff: http://fedora.nicubunu.ro From jjmasek at gmail.com Mon Feb 5 09:29:46 2007 From: jjmasek at gmail.com (Jiri Jakub Masek) Date: Mon, 5 Feb 2007 10:29:46 +0100 Subject: FC7ThemeProposalEnergyInterferences Message-ID: Hi all, an actual status of design (2007-02-05) was published. JJM -- I'm still learning English... Ji?? Jakub Ma?ek - Mr Jiri Jakub Masek Czech Republic, European Union http://jjm.xf.cz -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From baerjj at gmail.com Mon Feb 5 14:11:57 2007 From: baerjj at gmail.com (John Baer) Date: Mon, 5 Feb 2007 09:11:57 -0500 Subject: Flying High with Fedora 7 (final wallpaper) Message-ID: <484ace5d0702050611n6ff9ed7y962d0b3c7771d013@mail.gmail.com> All, IMO the wallpaper titled *clouds* submitted 02/04 should be the FC7 wallpaper. It's light, airy, and rich in fedora blue with a hint of red hat red. :) http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Artwork/FC7Themes/Fc7ThemeProposalFlyingHighRound2 I installed this background on LCD and CRT systems and it displays well. In addition, I tested against a variety of GDM themes including the new beryl 3D themes and it displays well and last I used a variety of icon themes and it displays well. At this point I would like to re-focus my attention on the RHGB artwork. My thoughts are to apply the *technical drawing* perspective. Cheers, John -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From nicu_fedora at nicubunu.ro Mon Feb 5 14:29:11 2007 From: nicu_fedora at nicubunu.ro (Nicu Buculei) Date: Mon, 05 Feb 2007 16:29:11 +0200 Subject: Flying High with Fedora 7 (final wallpaper) In-Reply-To: <484ace5d0702050611n6ff9ed7y962d0b3c7771d013@mail.gmail.com> References: <484ace5d0702050611n6ff9ed7y962d0b3c7771d013@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <45C73F37.5090908@nicubunu.ro> John Baer wrote: > > IMO the wallpaper titled *clouds* submitted 02/04 should be the FC7 > wallpaper. It's light, airy, and rich in fedora blue with a hint of red > hat red. :) > > http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Artwork/FC7Themes/Fc7ThemeProposalFlyingHighRound2 Before considering something *the* Fedora 7 wallpaper I would suggest you to read Diana's blog: http://www.isity.net/blog/?p=57 -- nicu Cool Fedora wallpapers: http://fedora.nicubunu.ro/wallpapers/ Open Clip Art Library: http://www.openclipart.org my Fedora stuff: http://fedora.nicubunu.ro From baerjj at gmail.com Mon Feb 5 16:11:46 2007 From: baerjj at gmail.com (John Baer) Date: Mon, 5 Feb 2007 11:11:46 -0500 Subject: Unfavorable Distro-Watch Report Message-ID: <484ace5d0702050811l6d08a921xe00fa48a3f2a7829@mail.gmail.com> All, I was distrubed to read today's Distro-Watch report on Fedora 7 RC1. Although much of what they had to say is off topic I was surprised by this comment. "(and yes, there are some positives, such as the installable live CD for the i386 systems or the beautiful new icon set)" I was not aware the decision on the icon set had been made. Is *echo* really ready for prime time? It would be nice to get a little feed back on what's going on. :( John -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From ben.arnold.inbox at gmail.com Mon Feb 5 16:53:06 2007 From: ben.arnold.inbox at gmail.com (Ben Arnold) Date: Mon, 5 Feb 2007 11:53:06 -0500 Subject: [FC7 theme proposal] Fedora Borealis - Round 2 In-Reply-To: <9c3bfa1d0702050850p70f97e5ft1824923d67b5f769@mail.gmail.com> References: <9c3bfa1d0701070626m642d4064m172d035144c0d6ac@mail.gmail.com> <9c3bfa1d0701070639p6ec59068u493e1d1af0a907ec@mail.gmail.com> <45A22BF2.4000001@nicubunu.ro> <9c3bfa1d0702050850p70f97e5ft1824923d67b5f769@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <9c3bfa1d0702050853u739a53fag953e03cf1cb277cc@mail.gmail.com> I've done another set with wallpaper, GDM, GRUB and GNOME splash. It's entitled "Borealis Clifftop" and is based on my Simple Night with a little more... subject? It's at the bottom of http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Fc7ThemeProposalFedoraBorealis for your consideration and comments since it's eveloved a little from Marian's orgiginal ideas. On 08/01/07, Nicu Buculei wrote: > Also, the best is to use a development version of Inkscape, otherwise it > will not render the blur effects. I'm now using the packaged version of Inkscape, 0.45pre1 built 20/01/07. It's fantastic. Excluding huge slowdown after about an hour of use, I find it more stable, too. -- ..// seawolf //.. Ben Arnold e-mail / msn / icq / yahoo iamseawolf (at) gmail (dot) com http://clik.to/seawolfsanctuary fedora core : artwork GnuPG Available - ask me! From ben.arnold.inbox at gmail.com Mon Feb 5 16:53:30 2007 From: ben.arnold.inbox at gmail.com (Ben Arnold) Date: Mon, 5 Feb 2007 11:53:30 -0500 Subject: one echo icon on kde toolbar In-Reply-To: <13dbfe4f0702040657r5cb6e1a1p7061ed2f015f9b5d@mail.gmail.com> References: <13dbfe4f0702040657r5cb6e1a1p7061ed2f015f9b5d@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <9c3bfa1d0702050853s6d9bc4d9pe48d1469274a80db@mail.gmail.com> On 04/02/07, Chitlesh GOORAH wrote: > I guess for kde, there must be 22x22 icons and symbolic links should > be treated properly. To scale down by two pixels, a script or automation would be safe to use for the entire set IMO. The Echo page has 16/24/48 icons, KDE directories list 16/22/32/64/48/128 as well as the scalable SVGs: I'm not sure which KDE actually uses most, I assume 16, 22 and 48. Can anyone clear that up for me? Also, it's good to make a backup of kmenu.png to something like kmenu2.png and copy the corresponding Fedora F logo from the Bluecurve ones as kmenu.png. It makes it fit a little nicer and should be packaged when Echo reaches KDE. -- ..// seawolf //.. Ben Arnold e-mail / msn / icq / yahoo iamseawolf (at) gmail (dot) com http://clik.to/seawolfsanctuary fedora core : artwork GnuPG Available - ask me! From ben.arnold.inbox at gmail.com Mon Feb 5 16:53:06 2007 From: ben.arnold.inbox at gmail.com (Ben Arnold) Date: Mon, 5 Feb 2007 11:53:06 -0500 Subject: [FC7 theme proposal] Fedora Borealis - Round 2 In-Reply-To: <9c3bfa1d0702050850p70f97e5ft1824923d67b5f769@mail.gmail.com> References: <9c3bfa1d0701070626m642d4064m172d035144c0d6ac@mail.gmail.com> <9c3bfa1d0701070639p6ec59068u493e1d1af0a907ec@mail.gmail.com> <45A22BF2.4000001@nicubunu.ro> <9c3bfa1d0702050850p70f97e5ft1824923d67b5f769@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <9c3bfa1d0702050853u739a53fag953e03cf1cb277cc@mail.gmail.com> I've done another set with wallpaper, GDM, GRUB and GNOME splash. It's entitled "Borealis Clifftop" and is based on my Simple Night with a little more... subject? It's at the bottom of http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Fc7ThemeProposalFedoraBorealis for your consideration and comments since it's eveloved a little from Marian's orgiginal ideas. On 08/01/07, Nicu Buculei wrote: > Also, the best is to use a development version of Inkscape, otherwise it > will not render the blur effects. I'm now using the packaged version of Inkscape, 0.45pre1 built 20/01/07. It's fantastic. Excluding huge slowdown after about an hour of use, I find it more stable, too. -- ..// seawolf //.. Ben Arnold e-mail / msn / icq / yahoo iamseawolf (at) gmail (dot) com http://clik.to/seawolfsanctuary fedora core : artwork GnuPG Available - ask me! From chitlesh at fedoraproject.org Mon Feb 5 16:22:47 2007 From: chitlesh at fedoraproject.org (Chitlesh GOORAH) Date: Mon, 5 Feb 2007 17:22:47 +0100 Subject: Unfavorable Distro-Watch Report In-Reply-To: <484ace5d0702050811l6d08a921xe00fa48a3f2a7829@mail.gmail.com> References: <484ace5d0702050811l6d08a921xe00fa48a3f2a7829@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <13dbfe4f0702050822k70761e94i9ecd84a6a52f2d2@mail.gmail.com> On 2/5/07, John Baer wrote: > I was not aware the decision on the icon set had been made. Is *echo* really > ready for prime time? > > It would be nice to get a little feed back on what's going on. True, I would like to know as well what's happening in the echo's world. Right now, I'm working to get it compatible with kde and being annoyed that symbolic links doesn't have any effect. The next time i'll be doing if there aren't new icons encouraging Rex to fork echo to echo-kde and call for fall backs on crystalsvg. Are there any plans for 22x22 at least ?? Chitlesh -- http://clunixchit.blogspot.com From ben.arnold.inbox at gmail.com Mon Feb 5 17:01:52 2007 From: ben.arnold.inbox at gmail.com (Ben Arnold) Date: Mon, 5 Feb 2007 12:01:52 -0500 Subject: Unfavorable Distro-Watch Report In-Reply-To: <484ace5d0702050811l6d08a921xe00fa48a3f2a7829@mail.gmail.com> References: <484ace5d0702050811l6d08a921xe00fa48a3f2a7829@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <9c3bfa1d0702050901u169e1447l1d8feafe98addb4e@mail.gmail.com> On 05/02/07, John Baer wrote: > I was not aware the decision on the icon set had been made. Is *echo* really > ready for prime time? I think it means the icon set is availible but if you get the LiveCD you'll see that it is not default [1]. > It would be nice to get a little feed back on what's going on. There's a heck of a still lot to be done as it's a large longer-term project. From my perspective, it's just carrying on filling the wiki page with icons for now and there's going to be something done to get it working with KDE, sizing to 22x22 as pointed out by Chitlesh Goorah, for example. I'm trying to find time to make these icons but, unfortunately, have no idea about things on the packaging side Keep in mind there's only a handful of people working on it. 1. http://www.phoronix.net/image.php?id=613&image=fedora_live6_17_lrg -- ..// seawolf //.. Ben Arnold e-mail / msn / icq / yahoo iamseawolf (at) gmail (dot) com http://clik.to/seawolfsanctuary fedora core : artwork GnuPG Available - ask me! From david at fubar.dk Mon Feb 5 17:19:08 2007 From: david at fubar.dk (David Zeuthen) Date: Mon, 05 Feb 2007 12:19:08 -0500 Subject: Unfavorable Distro-Watch Report In-Reply-To: <9c3bfa1d0702050901u169e1447l1d8feafe98addb4e@mail.gmail.com> References: <484ace5d0702050811l6d08a921xe00fa48a3f2a7829@mail.gmail.com> <9c3bfa1d0702050901u169e1447l1d8feafe98addb4e@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <1170695948.2907.18.camel@zelda.fubar.dk> On Mon, 2007-02-05 at 12:01 -0500, Ben Arnold wrote: > On 05/02/07, John Baer wrote: > > I was not aware the decision on the icon set had been made. Echo was made default very early on just right after the Fedora 7 branch for the distro opened; from libgnome ChangeLog * Fri Oct 27 2006 David Zeuthen - 2.16.0-7 - Make Echo the default icon theme and require echo-icon-theme for now We did this to get people to file bugs against Echo so we can better evaluate whether it's going to be the default. It's not the same as saying it's the default; this is Rawhide after all, things can change. > I think it means the icon set is availible but if you get the LiveCD > you'll see that it is not default [1]. That link is from the Fedora 6 live CD; if you try the Fedora 7 Test 1 live CD you will indeed see Echo being the default. FWIW, I wouldn't care too much about what the distro review sites are saying; just as a counterpoint http://www.phoronix.com/scan.php?page=article&item=637&num=1 says "The Fedora Echo icon theme is a huge improvement over Fedora Core 6 and past releases.". Distro reviewers are not necessarily very good at reviewing art and these days every dude and his mother reviews distributions. Make up your own mind. David From david at fubar.dk Mon Feb 5 17:25:46 2007 From: david at fubar.dk (David Zeuthen) Date: Mon, 05 Feb 2007 12:25:46 -0500 Subject: Unfavorable Distro-Watch Report In-Reply-To: <13dbfe4f0702050822k70761e94i9ecd84a6a52f2d2@mail.gmail.com> References: <484ace5d0702050811l6d08a921xe00fa48a3f2a7829@mail.gmail.com> <13dbfe4f0702050822k70761e94i9ecd84a6a52f2d2@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <1170696346.2907.25.camel@zelda.fubar.dk> On Mon, 2007-02-05 at 17:22 +0100, Chitlesh GOORAH wrote: > On 2/5/07, John Baer wrote: > > I was not aware the decision on the icon set had been made. Is *echo* really > > ready for prime time? > > > > It would be nice to get a little feed back on what's going on. > > True, I would like to know as well what's happening in the echo's world. > > Right now, I'm working to get it compatible with kde and being annoyed > that symbolic links doesn't have any effect. Am not sure exactly what the problem is; what links are you missing? > The next time i'll be > doing if there aren't new icons encouraging Rex to fork echo to > echo-kde and call for fall backs on crystalsvg. That sounds like a really bad idea; why not fix it in the echo package we got already? > Are there any plans for 22x22 at least ?? What's the problem with using 24x24? David From sdl.web at gmail.com Mon Feb 5 18:39:36 2007 From: sdl.web at gmail.com (Leo) Date: Mon, 05 Feb 2007 18:39:36 +0000 Subject: Unfavorable Distro-Watch Report References: <484ace5d0702050811l6d08a921xe00fa48a3f2a7829@mail.gmail.com> <9c3bfa1d0702050901u169e1447l1d8feafe98addb4e@mail.gmail.com> <1170695948.2907.18.camel@zelda.fubar.dk> Message-ID: On 2007-02-05, David Zeuthen said: >> On 05/02/07, John Baer wrote: >> > I was not aware the decision on the icon set had been made. > > Echo was made default very early on just right after the Fedora 7 > branch for the distro opened; from libgnome ChangeLog > > * Fri Oct 27 2006 David Zeuthen - 2.16.0-7 > - Make Echo the default icon theme and require echo-icon-theme for now > > We did this to get people to file bugs against Echo so we can better > evaluate whether it's going to be the default. It's not the same as > saying it's the default; this is Rawhide after all, things can > change. How many feedbacks do you get from making Echo the default icon theme? I want to say this is quite stupid as the icon set is very incomplete and the first thing users probably would do is changing it to another set which leave us with no feedback. -- Leo (GPG Key: 9283AA3F) From chitlesh at fedoraproject.org Mon Feb 5 18:53:27 2007 From: chitlesh at fedoraproject.org (Chitlesh GOORAH) Date: Mon, 5 Feb 2007 19:53:27 +0100 Subject: Unfavorable Distro-Watch Report In-Reply-To: <1170696346.2907.25.camel@zelda.fubar.dk> References: <484ace5d0702050811l6d08a921xe00fa48a3f2a7829@mail.gmail.com> <13dbfe4f0702050822k70761e94i9ecd84a6a52f2d2@mail.gmail.com> <1170696346.2907.25.camel@zelda.fubar.dk> Message-ID: <13dbfe4f0702051053l636c198h46865ecd5b459b0d@mail.gmail.com> On 2/5/07, David Zeuthen wrote: > > Are there any plans for 22x22 at least ?? > > What's the problem with using 24x24? There will be no icon on any kde toolbar. Chitlesh -- http://clunixchit.blogspot.com From david at fubar.dk Mon Feb 5 19:10:51 2007 From: david at fubar.dk (David Zeuthen) Date: Mon, 05 Feb 2007 14:10:51 -0500 Subject: Unfavorable Distro-Watch Report In-Reply-To: References: <484ace5d0702050811l6d08a921xe00fa48a3f2a7829@mail.gmail.com> <9c3bfa1d0702050901u169e1447l1d8feafe98addb4e@mail.gmail.com> <1170695948.2907.18.camel@zelda.fubar.dk> Message-ID: <1170702651.2907.40.camel@zelda.fubar.dk> Hi Leo! On Mon, 2007-02-05 at 18:39 +0000, Leo wrote: > How many feedbacks do you get from making Echo the default icon theme? Uhm, so the bugzilla is public, why do you ask for things you can look up yourself? (hint: not a lot of feedback, people normally don't file lot of bugs for things like coverage / aesthetics.) https://bugzilla.redhat.com/bugzilla/buglist.cgi?product=Fedora+Core&version=devel&component=echo-icon-theme&bug_status=NEW&bug_status=ASSIGNED&bug_status=REOPENED&bug_status=MODIFIED&short_desc_type=allwordssubstr&short_desc=&long_desc_type=allwordssubstr&long_desc= > I want to say this is quite stupid as the icon set is very incomplete > and the first thing users probably would do is changing it to another > set which leave us with no feedback. How nice. It seems like you are contradicting yourself; how would there be more feedback on Echo if Echo is not installed by default? Keep in mind that Rawhide is specifically designed to be used for things like this: putting in packages not 100% in order to get a feeling for how to finish it. David From david at fubar.dk Mon Feb 5 22:18:53 2007 From: david at fubar.dk (David Zeuthen) Date: Mon, 05 Feb 2007 17:18:53 -0500 Subject: Unfavorable Distro-Watch Report In-Reply-To: <13dbfe4f0702051053l636c198h46865ecd5b459b0d@mail.gmail.com> References: <484ace5d0702050811l6d08a921xe00fa48a3f2a7829@mail.gmail.com> <13dbfe4f0702050822k70761e94i9ecd84a6a52f2d2@mail.gmail.com> <1170696346.2907.25.camel@zelda.fubar.dk> <13dbfe4f0702051053l636c198h46865ecd5b459b0d@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <1170713933.2907.100.camel@zelda.fubar.dk> On Mon, 2007-02-05 at 19:53 +0100, Chitlesh GOORAH wrote: > On 2/5/07, David Zeuthen wrote: > > > Are there any plans for 22x22 at least ?? > > > > What's the problem with using 24x24? > > There will be no icon on any kde toolbar. So this sounds like a bug with Qt/KDE or perhaps rather the way Qt/KDE is packaged for Fedora; I'm pretty sure Matthias told me that KDE can be configured to use 24x24 instead of 22x22. It certainly sounds wasteful to include both 22x22 and 24x24 a) on-disk footprint (think live CD); and b) in-memory footprint; and c) lots of more work for artists (it's not as simple as just scaling them in a batch; good icons requires manual fixup / changes at such small resolutions) So I think Qt/KDE, or the Fedora packaging needs to be fixed instead and I don't think it's that hard. Chitlesh, any chance you can look into this? Thanks. David From chitlesh at fedoraproject.org Mon Feb 5 22:30:29 2007 From: chitlesh at fedoraproject.org (Chitlesh GOORAH) Date: Mon, 5 Feb 2007 23:30:29 +0100 Subject: Unfavorable Distro-Watch Report In-Reply-To: <1170713933.2907.100.camel@zelda.fubar.dk> References: <484ace5d0702050811l6d08a921xe00fa48a3f2a7829@mail.gmail.com> <13dbfe4f0702050822k70761e94i9ecd84a6a52f2d2@mail.gmail.com> <1170696346.2907.25.camel@zelda.fubar.dk> <13dbfe4f0702051053l636c198h46865ecd5b459b0d@mail.gmail.com> <1170713933.2907.100.camel@zelda.fubar.dk> Message-ID: <13dbfe4f0702051430i4f0c1bb2w156accba638d2c85@mail.gmail.com> On 2/5/07, David Zeuthen wrote: > So I think Qt/KDE, or the Fedora packaging needs to be fixed instead and > I don't think it's that hard. Chitlesh, any chance you can look into > this? Thanks. Hello, Surely I'll have a look in the upcoming days. However we still have to consider that in kde we have more possibilities to change the size of kicker in whatever size we want. Hence we have to ship different icon sizes. I have also noticed that using the ctrl_key+mouse_wheel to change the size of the contents on any folders (accessibility), the icons change if the related icons are of particular size aren't included. there are other apps who need more sizes too see https://www.redhat.com/archives/fedora-art-list/2007-January/msg00151.html Everytime when representing fedora on any event, there is always one disabled person who ask me about the options that fedora ship in terms of accessibility. I wish I could now say that fedora can be an OS for them too, instead of being speechless in front of them. Chitlesh -- http://clunixchit.blogspot.com From david at fubar.dk Mon Feb 5 23:00:44 2007 From: david at fubar.dk (David Zeuthen) Date: Mon, 05 Feb 2007 18:00:44 -0500 Subject: Unfavorable Distro-Watch Report In-Reply-To: <13dbfe4f0702051430i4f0c1bb2w156accba638d2c85@mail.gmail.com> References: <484ace5d0702050811l6d08a921xe00fa48a3f2a7829@mail.gmail.com> <13dbfe4f0702050822k70761e94i9ecd84a6a52f2d2@mail.gmail.com> <1170696346.2907.25.camel@zelda.fubar.dk> <13dbfe4f0702051053l636c198h46865ecd5b459b0d@mail.gmail.com> <1170713933.2907.100.camel@zelda.fubar.dk> <13dbfe4f0702051430i4f0c1bb2w156accba638d2c85@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <1170716444.2907.122.camel@zelda.fubar.dk> On Mon, 2007-02-05 at 23:30 +0100, Chitlesh GOORAH wrote: > On 2/5/07, David Zeuthen wrote: > > So I think Qt/KDE, or the Fedora packaging needs to be fixed instead and > > I don't think it's that hard. Chitlesh, any chance you can look into > > this? Thanks. > > Hello, > Surely I'll have a look in the upcoming days. Thanks. > However we still have to > consider that in kde we have more possibilities to change the size of > kicker in whatever size we want. Hence we have to ship different icon > sizes. Sure and we already do; e.g. 16x16, 24x24 and 48x48 for Echo. We could possibly include larger icons if needed but I don't think so. Perhaps we add them on a case by case basis. I'm not sure KDE has more options than GNOME or the other way around but that's unimportant. All this works fine in GNOME; GTK+ and other libraries just scale the icons so I really think this is a bug with Qt and/or KDE and/or the packaging. Of course, if some app requires a 128x128 icon it's going to look bad as we scale (jagged) but common wisdom would say there a few apps like these around. > I have also noticed that using the ctrl_key+mouse_wheel to change the > size of the contents on any folders (accessibility), the icons change > if the related icons are of particular size aren't included. This is not really accessibility per se - a11y in general is more concerned with "Large Contrast", "Big Print" themes, screen readers, screen magnifiers and so forth but of course also with themes for people with impaired eyesight. The ability to change icon sizes manually has really nothing to do with accessibility and if you think about it.. it shouldn't.. users will not be able to see the small icons _in the first place_ so we cannot presume that he knows some magic ctrl+key + mousewheel combination. That would be insane. The right answer is of course to make sure impaired users have the right theme / assistive technologies set up (e.g. "Big Print" + screen reader) before the log in. If Konqueror (which I presume is what is responding to ctrl_key +mouse_wheel) doesn't scale the icon it sounds like a bug with KDE. This works fine in e.g. Nautilus and if the icons are not available in such a large size it will be scaled (and look jagged but what can you do). > there are other apps who need more sizes too > see https://www.redhat.com/archives/fedora-art-list/2007-January/msg00151.html Usually apps ship icons in the hicolor theme and sometimes these blend in nicely so we as a distro don't have to redo them (this is especially true with things such as Tango as the Tango people have been aggressive in making apps use icons that blends in nice). If that isn't the case we can always create more icons in Echo; time / footprint is the only limiting factor. > Everytime when representing fedora on any event, there is always one > disabled person who ask me about the options that fedora ship in terms > of accessibility. I wish I could now say that fedora can be an OS for > them too, instead of being speechless in front of them. Accessibility, including a11y themes works great in GNOME so why don't you tell them to just use GNOME? :-) (But you probably meant ctrl_key+mouse_wheel which is not what accessibility is about.... Btw I know accessibility doesn't work in KDE because I'm on the weekly FSG a11y conference calls and I interact with KDE a11y people too. They're working on it though.) David From baerjj at gmail.com Tue Feb 6 01:09:54 2007 From: baerjj at gmail.com (John Baer) Date: Mon, 05 Feb 2007 20:09:54 -0500 Subject: Fedora-art-list Digest, Vol 11, Issue 7 In-Reply-To: <20070205170003.DF31173800@hormel.redhat.com> References: <20070205170003.DF31173800@hormel.redhat.com> Message-ID: <1170724194.7269.8.camel@localhost.localdomain> Nicu wrote: > Before considering something *the* Fedora 7 wallpaper I would suggest > you to read Diana's blog: http://www.isity.net/blog/?p=57 Thank you for the info. Before preview 1 I was in agreement with Diana's post but now I believe the last thing folks want to see is a hot air balloon floating over a landscape. My concern is time is running out and there is much to accomplish. I realize no matter which design is chosen for the FC7 there will be some who will desire something different. My desire is to have *Flying High* as complete as it can be by the 12th. John From baerjj at gmail.com Tue Feb 6 02:08:45 2007 From: baerjj at gmail.com (John Baer) Date: Mon, 05 Feb 2007 21:08:45 -0500 Subject: Flying High with Fedora 7 In-Reply-To: <20070205141204.DCA237348E@hormel.redhat.com> References: <20070205141204.DCA237348E@hormel.redhat.com> Message-ID: <1170727725.7645.10.camel@localhost.localdomain> Nicu wrote: > I find it unbalanced: the clouds look very realistic (and very good) > but > the balloons look very minimal. > Yep, that was the plan. The balloons are actually from JJM. :) > I am right when I say the light sources are inconsistent? on the > clouds > it appears to come from left and on the balloons it appears to come > from > right. > You are correct. I wanted the upper left to be dark to enhance the contrast of the icons. I wanted to lower right to be dark to enhance to the *fedora branding*. Although inconsistent, IMO it still works. > Are you sure you used the wordmark correctly? It seems to have an > incorrect thickness of the font. The font is correct but a slight shading was added to the bottom. Thank you for your observations, John From andyfitz at gmail.com Tue Feb 6 05:40:38 2007 From: andyfitz at gmail.com (Andy Fitzsimon) Date: Tue, 6 Feb 2007 15:40:38 +1000 Subject: Flying High with Fedora 7 In-Reply-To: <1170727725.7645.10.camel@localhost.localdomain> References: <20070205141204.DCA237348E@hormel.redhat.com> <1170727725.7645.10.camel@localhost.localdomain> Message-ID: I love the clouds in that one also. the contrast is so cool. I made a little balloon and posted it here http://andy.brisgeek.com/archives/34 From luya_tfz at thefinalzone.com Tue Feb 6 06:24:15 2007 From: luya_tfz at thefinalzone.com (Luya Tshimbalanga) Date: Tue, 6 Feb 2007 01:24:15 -0500 Subject: Unfavorable Distro-Watch Report In-Reply-To: <484ace5d0702050811l6d08a921xe00fa48a3f2a7829@mail.gmail.com> References: <484ace5d0702050811l6d08a921xe00fa48a3f2a7829@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <1170743055.45c81f0f5ceaf@ssl.mecca.ca> Quoting John Baer : > All, > > I was distrubed to read today's Distro-Watch report on Fedora 7 RC1. > Although much of what they had to say is off topic I was surprised by this > comment. > > "(and yes, there are some positives, such as the installable live CD for the > i386 systems or the beautiful new icon set)" Bah, this is only a test release intended to retrieve more bugs as possible. I have learn to take negative review as a way to improve the distribution. Contributions now know the weak point too fix. > > I was not aware the decision on the icon set had been made. Is *echo* really > ready for prime time? *rant on * I participated to the inclusion of echo-icon-theme on rawhide by default. As David indicated, it was on October that the decision was made and I put the announcement for the availability of echo-icon-them on Rawhide. For what I observe on several forum, users welcome the change of icons. Despite the heavy schedule (real life sucks sometime), I do my best to work hard to the development of echo. New icons are available but xml list needs to be updated. Sources to modify the icons are available : SVG. I am not sure what else is missing for further push the development. *rant off* I really wonder if Mairin departure from leadership to the development of GNOME really impact some people here. Perhaps we need that. -- Luya Tshimbalanga Fedora Project contributor http://www.fedoraproject.org/wiki/LuyaTshimbalanga From chitlesh at fedoraproject.org Tue Feb 6 06:27:12 2007 From: chitlesh at fedoraproject.org (Chitlesh GOORAH) Date: Tue, 6 Feb 2007 07:27:12 +0100 Subject: Flying High with Fedora 7 In-Reply-To: References: <20070205141204.DCA237348E@hormel.redhat.com> <1170727725.7645.10.camel@localhost.localdomain> Message-ID: <13dbfe4f0702052227x78fc8c38j9dfbc2b347a63076@mail.gmail.com> On 2/6/07, Andy Fitzsimon wrote: > I made a little balloon and posted it here http://andy.brisgeek.com/archives/34 Hello, your balloon is cool. However, the infinity sign gives more the impression that the release will be fedora 8, rather than F7. Chitlesh -- http://clunixchit.blogspot.com From nicu_fedora at nicubunu.ro Tue Feb 6 06:56:25 2007 From: nicu_fedora at nicubunu.ro (Nicu Buculei) Date: Tue, 06 Feb 2007 08:56:25 +0200 Subject: Unfavorable Distro-Watch Report In-Reply-To: <1170743055.45c81f0f5ceaf@ssl.mecca.ca> References: <484ace5d0702050811l6d08a921xe00fa48a3f2a7829@mail.gmail.com> <1170743055.45c81f0f5ceaf@ssl.mecca.ca> Message-ID: <45C82699.9060207@nicubunu.ro> Luya Tshimbalanga wrote: > > For what I > observe on several forum, users welcome the change of icons. Despite the heavy Of course they do, *any* change is a plus, Bluecurve is really showing its age. It was nice and served us well but we should put it to rest at some point. > schedule (real life sucks sometime), I do my best to work hard to the > development of echo. New icons are available but xml list needs to be updated. To my shame, I worked only on very few icons. > Sources to modify the icons are available : SVG. I am not sure what else is > missing for further push the development. A lot of things are needed: - clear guidelines: developing Echo is hard, icons have a certain perspective, complex shapes, surfaces are filled with gradients, objects have lighting and shadows and all those are *not* documented, so for a new icon you have to study the other and guess. For example I can't submit an Echo color palette upstream to Inkscape because there is no one (but they have a Tango palette). - no one is pushing Echo. Look at Tango Fridays: one day each week they get together and create icons. Pushing also means advertise: blog about the theme development, post on forums, write on the mailing list. And submit on your own icons to upstream applications, just as Tango people do. - as I already said, creating Echo icons is not easy so new contributors with little experience will need advices, help and guidance, otherwise the number of contributors will remain small. - indeed, we have the sources as SVG, but have you looked at the source of the majority of icons? Is horrible and bloated, made with Adobe Illustrator, so the first thing when you work on a derivative is to clean the initial icon. With all those said and few other I missed at the moment I personally do not have big faith in Echo. > I really wonder if Mairin departure from leadership to the development of GNOME > really impact some people here. Perhaps we need that. Too bad that we make good people turn away when exactly the opposite is needed. -- nicu Cool Fedora wallpapers: http://fedora.nicubunu.ro/wallpapers/ Open Clip Art Library: http://www.openclipart.org my Fedora stuff: http://fedora.nicubunu.ro From nicu_fedora at nicubunu.ro Tue Feb 6 07:01:21 2007 From: nicu_fedora at nicubunu.ro (Nicu Buculei) Date: Tue, 06 Feb 2007 09:01:21 +0200 Subject: Flying High with Fedora 7 In-Reply-To: References: <20070205141204.DCA237348E@hormel.redhat.com> <1170727725.7645.10.camel@localhost.localdomain> Message-ID: <45C827C1.8030500@nicubunu.ro> Andy Fitzsimon wrote: > > I made a little balloon and posted it here > http://andy.brisgeek.com/archives/34 What can I say? You rule Andy. -- nicu Cool Fedora wallpapers: http://fedora.nicubunu.ro/wallpapers/ Open Clip Art Library: http://www.openclipart.org my Fedora stuff: http://fedora.nicubunu.ro From chitlesh at fedoraproject.org Tue Feb 6 07:09:02 2007 From: chitlesh at fedoraproject.org (Chitlesh GOORAH) Date: Tue, 6 Feb 2007 08:09:02 +0100 Subject: Unfavorable Distro-Watch Report In-Reply-To: <1170743055.45c81f0f5ceaf@ssl.mecca.ca> References: <484ace5d0702050811l6d08a921xe00fa48a3f2a7829@mail.gmail.com> <1170743055.45c81f0f5ceaf@ssl.mecca.ca> Message-ID: <13dbfe4f0702052309x656ddf8fhf603101f36645473@mail.gmail.com> On 2/6/07, Luya Tshimbalanga wrote: > development of echo. New icons are available but xml list needs to be updated. > Sources to modify the icons are available : SVG. I am not sure what else is > missing for further push the development. *rant off* Hello Luya, thanks for working on it. Where can I have those new icons ? on the wiki or are they already in the development repositories ? regards, Chitlesh -- http://clunixchit.blogspot.com From luya_tfz at thefinalzone.com Tue Feb 6 07:22:20 2007 From: luya_tfz at thefinalzone.com (Luya Tshimbalanga) Date: Tue, 6 Feb 2007 02:22:20 -0500 Subject: Unfavorable Distro-Watch Report In-Reply-To: <45C82699.9060207@nicubunu.ro> References: <484ace5d0702050811l6d08a921xe00fa48a3f2a7829@mail.gmail.com> <1170743055.45c81f0f5ceaf@ssl.mecca.ca> <45C82699.9060207@nicubunu.ro> Message-ID: <1170746540.45c82cac72ed5@ssl.mecca.ca> Quoting Nicu Buculei : > Luya Tshimbalanga wrote: > > > Of course they do, *any* change is a plus, Bluecurve is really showing > its age. It was nice and served us well but we should put it to rest at > some point. So can we help Bluecurve to gracefully retire by working altogether even though we cannot reach IRC. How about any Artwork team stand up? > > To my shame, I worked only on very few icons. At least you were honest, > A lot of things are needed: > - clear guidelines: developing Echo is hard, icons have a certain > perspective, complex shapes, surfaces are filled with gradients, objects > have lighting and shadows and all those are *not* documented, so for a > new icon you have to study the other and guess. For example I can't > submit an Echo color palette upstream to Inkscape because there is no > one (but they have a Tango palette). > - no one is pushing Echo. Look at Tango Fridays: one day each week they > get together and create icons. Pushing also means advertise: blog about > the theme development, post on forums, write on the mailing list. And > submit on your own icons to upstream applications, just as Tango people do. > - as I already said, creating Echo icons is not easy so new contributors > with little experience will need advices, help and guidance, otherwise > the number of contributors will remain small. > - indeed, we have the sources as SVG, but have you looked at the source > of the majority of icons? Is horrible and bloated, made with Adobe > Illustrator, so the first thing when you work on a derivative is to > clean the initial icon. > With all those said and few other I missed at the moment I personally do > not have big faith in Echo. > So it will take someone to etablish a strong strategy. Echo Guidelines [1] is available for your information. > Too bad that we make good people turn away when exactly the opposite is > needed. Mostly due the inertia on Artwork team. Can we show we can do less talk more action? [1]http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Artwork/EchoIconGuidelines -- Luya Tshimbalanga Fedora Project contributor http://www.fedoraproject.org/wiki/LuyaTshimbalanga From nicu_fedora at nicubunu.ro Tue Feb 6 07:16:56 2007 From: nicu_fedora at nicubunu.ro (Nicu Buculei) Date: Tue, 06 Feb 2007 09:16:56 +0200 Subject: Unfavorable Distro-Watch Report In-Reply-To: <13dbfe4f0702052309x656ddf8fhf603101f36645473@mail.gmail.com> References: <484ace5d0702050811l6d08a921xe00fa48a3f2a7829@mail.gmail.com> <1170743055.45c81f0f5ceaf@ssl.mecca.ca> <13dbfe4f0702052309x656ddf8fhf603101f36645473@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <45C82B68.6060809@nicubunu.ro> Chitlesh GOORAH wrote: > On 2/6/07, Luya Tshimbalanga wrote: > >> development of echo. New icons are available but xml list needs to be >> updated. >> Sources to modify the icons are available : SVG. I am not sure what >> else is >> missing for further push the development. *rant off* > > Hello Luya, > thanks for working on it. Where can I have those new icons ? on the > wiki or are they already in the development repositories ? All the icons are available as SVG and PNG on the wiki page - http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Artwork/EchoDevelopment, that is the only repository. -- nicu Cool Fedora wallpapers: http://fedora.nicubunu.ro/wallpapers/ Open Clip Art Library: http://www.openclipart.org my Fedora stuff: http://fedora.nicubunu.ro From luya_tfz at thefinalzone.com Tue Feb 6 07:30:14 2007 From: luya_tfz at thefinalzone.com (Luya Tshimbalanga) Date: Tue, 6 Feb 2007 02:30:14 -0500 Subject: Unfavorable Distro-Watch Report In-Reply-To: <13dbfe4f0702052309x656ddf8fhf603101f36645473@mail.gmail.com> References: <484ace5d0702050811l6d08a921xe00fa48a3f2a7829@mail.gmail.com> <1170743055.45c81f0f5ceaf@ssl.mecca.ca> <13dbfe4f0702052309x656ddf8fhf603101f36645473@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <1170747014.45c82e865a781@ssl.mecca.ca> Quoting Chitlesh GOORAH : > On 2/6/07, Luya Tshimbalanga wrote: > > > development of echo. New icons are available but xml list needs to be > updated. > > Sources to modify the icons are available : SVG. I am not sure what else is > > missing for further push the development. *rant off* > > Hello Luya, > thanks for working on it. Where can I have those new icons ? on the > wiki or are they already in the development repositories ? > On the Echo development wiki: http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Artwork/EchoDevelopment Weather icons are new. I am not use if I can commit the modification on the new CVS process. -- Luya Tshimbalanga Fedora Project contributor http://www.fedoraproject.org/wiki/LuyaTshimbalanga From david at fubar.dk Tue Feb 6 07:40:55 2007 From: david at fubar.dk (David Zeuthen) Date: Tue, 06 Feb 2007 02:40:55 -0500 Subject: Unfavorable Distro-Watch Report In-Reply-To: <13dbfe4f0702052309x656ddf8fhf603101f36645473@mail.gmail.com> References: <484ace5d0702050811l6d08a921xe00fa48a3f2a7829@mail.gmail.com> <1170743055.45c81f0f5ceaf@ssl.mecca.ca> <13dbfe4f0702052309x656ddf8fhf603101f36645473@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <1170747655.23941.7.camel@zelda.fubar.dk> On Tue, 2007-02-06 at 08:09 +0100, Chitlesh GOORAH wrote: > thanks for working on it. Where can I have those new icons ? on the > wiki or are they already in the development repositories ? I'll roll a new echo-icon-theme RPM for Rawhide sometime soonish at least before Test 2. Also, at some point we need to consider using another upstream source control system for the icons.. than the Wiki (!). But that can probably be post Fedora 7. David From luya_tfz at thefinalzone.com Tue Feb 6 08:19:36 2007 From: luya_tfz at thefinalzone.com (Luya Tshimbalanga) Date: Tue, 06 Feb 2007 00:19:36 -0800 Subject: Unfavorable Distro-Watch Report In-Reply-To: <1170747655.23941.7.camel@zelda.fubar.dk> References: <484ace5d0702050811l6d08a921xe00fa48a3f2a7829@mail.gmail.com> <1170743055.45c81f0f5ceaf@ssl.mecca.ca> <13dbfe4f0702052309x656ddf8fhf603101f36645473@mail.gmail.com> <1170747655.23941.7.camel@zelda.fubar.dk> Message-ID: <45C83A18.9070503@thefinalzone.com> David Zeuthen wrote: > Also, at some point we need to consider using another upstream source > control system for the icons.. than the Wiki (!). But that can probably > be post Fedora 7. > > David > True as I keep adding new names especially for both emotes and weathers (estimated to 24). It becomes painful to maintain wiki page. Here is a quick preview for new weather icons. -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: weather-fogL.png Type: image/png Size: 2824 bytes Desc: not available URL: -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: weather-snowL.png Type: image/png Size: 4561 bytes Desc: not available URL: From luya at fedoraproject.org Tue Feb 6 08:16:44 2007 From: luya at fedoraproject.org (Luya Tshimbalanga) Date: Tue, 06 Feb 2007 00:16:44 -0800 Subject: Unfavorable Distro-Watch Report In-Reply-To: <1170747655.23941.7.camel@zelda.fubar.dk> References: <484ace5d0702050811l6d08a921xe00fa48a3f2a7829@mail.gmail.com> <1170743055.45c81f0f5ceaf@ssl.mecca.ca> <13dbfe4f0702052309x656ddf8fhf603101f36645473@mail.gmail.com> <1170747655.23941.7.camel@zelda.fubar.dk> Message-ID: <45C8396C.8010808@fedoraproject.org> David Zeuthen wrote: > > I'll roll a new echo-icon-theme RPM for Rawhide sometime soonish at > least before Test 2. > > Also, at some point we need to consider using another upstream source > control system for the icons.. than the Wiki (!). But that can probably > be post Fedora 7. > > David > > True as I keep adding new names especially for both emotes and weathers (estimated to 24). It becomes painful to maintain wiki page. Here is a quick preview for new weather icons. -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: weather-fogL.png Type: image/png Size: 2824 bytes Desc: not available URL: -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: weather-snowL.png Type: image/png Size: 4561 bytes Desc: not available URL: From ben.arnold.inbox at gmail.com Tue Feb 6 13:18:16 2007 From: ben.arnold.inbox at gmail.com (Ben Arnold) Date: Tue, 6 Feb 2007 13:18:16 +0000 Subject: Luya's Weather Icons Message-ID: <9c3bfa1d0702060518k8e36d99na2e563168c909fb4@mail.gmail.com> Luya, I like the snow icon you attached to the messages but how about overlaying a little blur to the fog? As it is, the grey layers seem like heavy cloud rather than fog and it might make it a little more substantial. I do like the grey colour, though. Just a suggestion whilst you're developing them. ./Ben -- ..// seawolf //.. Ben Arnold e-mail / msn / icq / yahoo iamseawolf (at) gmail (dot) com http://clik.to/seawolfsanctuary fedora core : artwork GnuPG Available - ask me! From baerjj at gmail.com Tue Feb 6 13:56:10 2007 From: baerjj at gmail.com (John Baer) Date: Tue, 6 Feb 2007 08:56:10 -0500 Subject: Unfavorable Distro-Watch Report Message-ID: <484ace5d0702060556o52bf5861qe066703dbbd777e1@mail.gmail.com> On 2/6/07, Luya wrote: > > > Bah, this is only a test release intended to retrieve more bugs as > possible. I > have learn to take negative review as a way to improve the distribution. > Contributions now know the weak point too fix. Bah? The problem with a review is you don't know who will read it. Perhaps potential new Fedora user who will now look for something better. Worst, some may decide FC7 is not worth testing. :( > > > I was not aware the decision on the icon set had been made. Is *echo* > really > > ready for prime time? > > *rant on * > I participated to the inclusion of echo-icon-theme on rawhide by default. > As > David indicated, it was on October that the decision was made and I put > the > announcement for the availability of echo-icon-them on Rawhide. For what I > observe on several forum, users welcome the change of icons. Despite the > heavy > schedule (real life sucks sometime), I do my best to work hard to the > development of echo. New icons are available but xml list needs to be > updated. > Sources to modify the icons are available : SVG. I am not sure what else > is > missing for further push the development. *rant off* Based on the above comment, I am assuming you are the owner of this effort. I did not know that. I quickly searched the wiki and the only *echo* page which displayed your name was *EchoProblem*. If you are not the owner, who is? I really wonder if Mairin departure from leadership to the development of > GNOME > really impact some people here. Perhaps we need that. As I stated before, creating an icon theme IMO is a huge effort. Information should be flowing on a very regular bases communicating (listserv, forum, irc) it's status and direction. The owner is the advocate of the effort and assumes this responsibility. In conclusion, my concern is the number of missing icons I see on the *echo* wiki page. If the artwork is missing or substituted, a bugzillia report will not be of much help. However, if *echo* is ready and others agree then let's proceed on. John -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From nicu_fedora at nicubunu.ro Tue Feb 6 14:24:44 2007 From: nicu_fedora at nicubunu.ro (Nicu Buculei) Date: Tue, 06 Feb 2007 16:24:44 +0200 Subject: Unfavorable Distro-Watch Report In-Reply-To: <484ace5d0702060556o52bf5861qe066703dbbd777e1@mail.gmail.com> References: <484ace5d0702060556o52bf5861qe066703dbbd777e1@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <45C88FAC.40707@nicubunu.ro> John Baer wrote: > > The problem with a review is you don't know who will read it. Perhaps > potential new Fedora user who will now look for something better. Worst, > some may decide FC7 is not worth testing. > :( The problem is, today in the internet age with blogs and forums anyone can review anything and say whatever he want. And this is good. > Based on the above comment, I am assuming you are the owner of this > effort. I did not know that. I quickly searched the wiki and the only > *echo* page which displayed your name was *EchoProblem*. If you are not > the owner, who is? Luya is an important contributor to the theme, many icons list him as the author: http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Artwork/EchoDevelopment The "owner" probably is Diana, who started it and did the largest part of the existing icons and David who will package the theme. > As I stated before, creating an icon theme IMO is a huge effort. > Information should be flowing on a very regular bases communicating > (listserv, forum, irc) it's status and direction. The owner is the > advocate of the effort and assumes this responsibility. Yup, here is a lot of work to do: some dealing with people, some marketing > In conclusion, my concern is the number of missing icons I see on the > *echo* wiki page. If the artwork is missing or substituted, a bugzillia > report will not be of much help. The icons listed on the wiki page are the icons for the base GNOME desktop (stock icons), they cover only a part of the entire desktop. There are a lot of GTK/GNOME applications using their own icons and there are the big applications (Firefox, OpenOffice.org) > However, if *echo* is ready and others agree then let's proceed on. Any theme would be used, even Tango, it will not have 100% coverage, so we have to start with something less. -- nicu Cool Fedora wallpapers: http://fedora.nicubunu.ro/wallpapers/ Open Clip Art Library: http://www.openclipart.org my Fedora stuff: http://fedora.nicubunu.ro From mclasen at redhat.com Tue Feb 6 19:26:55 2007 From: mclasen at redhat.com (Matthias Clasen) Date: Tue, 06 Feb 2007 14:26:55 -0500 Subject: Echo icon coverage Message-ID: <1170790015.13602.8.camel@dhcp83-33.boston.redhat.com> Hey, I've taken another snapshot from the wiki today, and pushed it into rawhide. Nice to see that a few new icons have appeared since the last snapshot. To get some coverage baseline, I have run my icon-theme-stats script over it, which checks the coverage of stock gtk names and icon-naming-spec names. Here are the results: Echo(16): 92 of 95 GTK+ stock icons missing Echo(16): 221 of 266 icon-naming-spec icons missing Echo(24): 71 of 103 GTK+ stock icons missing Echo(24): 193 of 266 icon-naming-spec icons missing Echo(48): 0 of 5 GTK+ stock icons missing Echo(48): 88 of 266 icon-naming-spec icons missing By comparison, here are the numbers for gnome and Tango: Tango(16): 34 of 95 GTK+ stock icons missing Tango(16): 88 of 266 icon-naming-spec icons missing Tango(22): 0 of 0 GTK+ stock icons missing Tango(22): 88 of 266 icon-naming-spec icons missing Tango(24): 41 of 103 GTK+ stock icons missing Tango(24): 88 of 266 icon-naming-spec icons missing Tango(32): 2 of 2 GTK+ stock icons missing Tango(32): 88 of 266 icon-naming-spec icons missing Tango(48): 2 of 5 GTK+ stock icons missing Tango(48): 88 of 266 icon-naming-spec icons missing Tango(scalable): 0 of 0 GTK+ stock icons missing Tango(scalable): 88 of 266 icon-naming-spec icons missing gnome(16): 26 of 95 GTK+ stock icons missing gnome(16): 85 of 266 icon-naming-spec icons missing gnome(22): 0 of 0 GTK+ stock icons missing gnome(22): 87 of 266 icon-naming-spec icons missing gnome(24): 33 of 103 GTK+ stock icons missing gnome(24): 87 of 266 icon-naming-spec icons missing gnome(32): 2 of 2 GTK+ stock icons missing gnome(32): 139 of 266 icon-naming-spec icons missing gnome(48): 5 of 5 GTK+ stock icons missing gnome(48): 252 of 266 icon-naming-spec icons missing gnome(scalable): 0 of 0 GTK+ stock icons missing gnome(scalable): 119 of 266 icon-naming-spec icons missing I'll attach the detailed list of missing Echo icons and the script that generated these numbers. So, there is some more work to be done to improve the coverage of Echo, in particular for smaller sizes. Anyway, even with perfect coverage here, there still will be gaps in what applications actually use. I think it would be very valuable if people could watch out for these gaps and file bugs for the more prominent ones (like a single Bluecurve icon in an otherwise Echo toolbar). Matthias -------------- next part -------------- Echo(16): 92 of 95 GTK+ stock icons missing ------ gtk-about gtk-add gtk-bold gtk-cdrom gtk-connect gtk-convert gtk-copy gtk-cut gtk-delete gtk-directory gtk-disconnect gtk-edit gtk-execute gtk-file gtk-find gtk-find-and-replace gtk-floppy gtk-font gtk-fullscreen gtk-go-back-ltr gtk-go-back-rtl gtk-go-forward-ltr gtk-go-forward-rtl gtk-goto-bottom gtk-goto-first-ltr gtk-goto-first-rtl gtk-goto-last-ltr gtk-goto-last-rtl gtk-goto-top gtk-harddisk gtk-help gtk-home gtk-indent-ltr gtk-indent-rtl gtk-index gtk-info gtk-italic gtk-jump-to-ltr gtk-jump-to-rtl gtk-justify-center gtk-justify-fill gtk-justify-left gtk-justify-right gtk-leave-fullscreen gtk-media-forward-ltr gtk-media-forward-rtl gtk-media-next-ltr gtk-media-next-rtl gtk-media-pause gtk-media-play-ltr gtk-media-play-rtl gtk-media-previous-ltr gtk-media-previous-rtl gtk-media-record gtk-media-rewind-ltr gtk-media-rewind-rtl gtk-media-stop gtk-missing-image gtk-network gtk-new gtk-open gtk-paste gtk-preferences gtk-print gtk-print-preview gtk-properties gtk-quit gtk-redo-ltr gtk-redo-rtl gtk-remove gtk-revert-to-saved-ltr gtk-revert-to-saved-rtl gtk-save gtk-save-as gtk-select-all gtk-select-font gtk-sort-ascending gtk-sort-descending gtk-spell-check gtk-stop gtk-strikethrough gtk-undelete-ltr gtk-undelete-rtl gtk-underline gtk-undo-ltr gtk-undo-rtl gtk-unindent-ltr gtk-unindent-rtl gtk-zoom-100 gtk-zoom-fit gtk-zoom-in gtk-zoom-out ------ Echo(16): 221 of 266 icon-naming-spec icons missing ------ accessories-calculator accessories-character-map accessories-dictionary accessories-text-editor address-book-new application-exit applications-development applications-engineering applications-internet applications-other applications-science applications-utilities audio-card audio-input-microphone audio-volume-high audio-volume-low audio-volume-muted audio-x-generic battery battery-caution battery-low camera-photo camera-video computer dialog-information dialog-password document-new document-open document-open-recent document-page-setup document-print document-print-preview document-properties document-revert document-save document-save-as drive-harddisk drive-optical drive-removable-media edit-copy edit-cut edit-delete edit-find edit-find-replace edit-paste edit-redo edit-select-all edit-undo emblem-default emblem-documents emblem-mail emblem-photos emblem-readonly emblem-shared emblem-symbolic-link emblem-synchronized flag-aa folder folder-drag-accept folder-new folder-open folder-remote folder-visiting font-x-generic format-indent-less format-indent-more format-justify-center format-justify-fill format-justify-left format-justify-right format-text-bold format-text-direction-ltr format-text-direction-rtl format-text-italic format-text-strikethrough format-text-underline go-bottom go-first go-home go-jump go-last go-next go-previous go-top help-about help-browser help-contents help-faq image-loading image-missing image-x-generic input-gaming input-keyboard input-mouse insert-image insert-link insert-object insert-text list-add list-remove mail-attachment mail-forward mail-mark-important mail-mark-junk mail-mark-notjunk mail-mark-read mail-mark-unread mail-message-new mail-read mail-replied mail-reply-all mail-reply-sender mail-send mail-send-receive mail-signed mail-signed-verified mail-unread media-eject media-flash media-floppy media-optical media-playback-pause media-playback-start media-playback-stop media-playlist-repeat media-playlist-shuffle media-record media-seek-backward media-seek-forward media-skip-backward media-skip-forward media-tape modem multimedia-player multimedia-volume-control network-error network-idle network-offline network-receive network-server network-transmit network-transmit-receive network-wired network-wireless network-workgroup object-flip-horizontal object-flip-vertical object-rotate-left object-rotate-right package-x-generic preferences-desktop preferences-desktop-accessibility preferences-desktop-font preferences-desktop-keyboard preferences-desktop-locale preferences-desktop-multimedia preferences-desktop-peripherals preferences-desktop-personal preferences-desktop-screensaver preferences-desktop-theme preferences-desktop-wallpaper preferences-other preferences-system preferences-system-network printer printer-error printer-printing security-high security-low security-medium software-update-available software-update-urgent start-here sync-error sync-synchronizing system-file-manager system-help system-lock-screen system-log-out system-run system-search system-software-update task-due task-passed-due text-html text-x-generic text-x-generic-template text-x-script user-away user-desktop user-home user-idle user-offline user-online user-trash user-trash-full utilities-system-monitor utilities-terminal video-display video-x-generic view-fullscreen view-restore view-sort-ascending view-sort-descending weather-few-clouds weather-few-clouds-night weather-overcast weather-severe-alert weather-showers weather-showers-scattered weather-storm window-close window-new x-office-calendar x-office-document x-office-presentation x-office-spreadsheet zoom-best-fit zoom-in zoom-original zoom-out ------ Echo(24): 71 of 103 GTK+ stock icons missing ------ gtk-about gtk-bold gtk-cdrom gtk-clear gtk-close gtk-color-picker gtk-connect gtk-convert gtk-copy gtk-cut gtk-delete gtk-directory gtk-disconnect gtk-edit gtk-execute gtk-file gtk-find gtk-find-and-replace gtk-floppy gtk-font gtk-fullscreen gtk-harddisk gtk-help gtk-home gtk-indent-ltr gtk-indent-rtl gtk-index gtk-info gtk-italic gtk-jump-to-ltr gtk-jump-to-rtl gtk-leave-fullscreen gtk-media-play-rtl gtk-missing-image gtk-network gtk-new gtk-orientation-landscape gtk-orientation-portrait gtk-orientation-reverse-landscape gtk-orientation-reverse-portrait gtk-paste gtk-preferences gtk-print gtk-print-preview gtk-properties gtk-quit gtk-redo-ltr gtk-redo-rtl gtk-revert-to-saved-ltr gtk-revert-to-saved-rtl gtk-save gtk-save-as gtk-select-all gtk-select-color gtk-select-font gtk-sort-ascending gtk-sort-descending gtk-spell-check gtk-stop gtk-strikethrough gtk-undelete-ltr gtk-undelete-rtl gtk-underline gtk-undo-ltr gtk-undo-rtl gtk-unindent-ltr gtk-unindent-rtl gtk-zoom-100 gtk-zoom-fit gtk-zoom-in gtk-zoom-out ------ Echo(24): 193 of 266 icon-naming-spec icons missing ------ accessories-calculator accessories-character-map accessories-dictionary accessories-text-editor address-book-new application-exit applications-accessories applications-development applications-engineering applications-internet applications-other applications-science applications-utilities audio-card audio-input-microphone audio-volume-high audio-volume-low audio-volume-muted audio-x-generic battery battery-caution battery-low camera-photo camera-video computer dialog-information document-new document-page-setup document-print document-print-preview document-properties document-save document-save-as drive-harddisk drive-optical drive-removable-media edit-copy edit-cut edit-delete edit-find edit-find-replace edit-paste edit-redo edit-undo emblem-default emblem-documents emblem-mail emblem-photos emblem-readonly emblem-shared emblem-symbolic-link emblem-synchronized flag-aa folder folder-drag-accept folder-new folder-open folder-remote folder-visiting font-x-generic format-text-bold format-text-direction-ltr format-text-direction-rtl format-text-italic format-text-strikethrough format-text-underline go-home go-jump help-about help-browser help-contents help-faq image-loading image-missing image-x-generic input-gaming input-keyboard input-mouse insert-image insert-link insert-object insert-text mail-attachment mail-forward mail-mark-important mail-mark-junk mail-mark-notjunk mail-mark-unread mail-read mail-replied mail-reply-all mail-reply-sender mail-send mail-send-receive mail-signed mail-signed-verified mail-unread media-flash media-floppy media-optical media-playlist-repeat media-playlist-shuffle media-tape modem multimedia-player multimedia-volume-control network-error network-idle network-offline network-receive network-server network-transmit network-transmit-receive network-wired network-wireless network-workgroup object-flip-horizontal object-flip-vertical object-rotate-left object-rotate-right package-x-generic preferences-desktop preferences-desktop-accessibility preferences-desktop-font preferences-desktop-keyboard preferences-desktop-locale preferences-desktop-multimedia preferences-desktop-peripherals preferences-desktop-personal preferences-desktop-screensaver preferences-desktop-theme preferences-desktop-wallpaper preferences-other preferences-system preferences-system-network printer printer-error printer-printing security-high security-low security-medium software-update-available software-update-urgent start-here sync-error sync-synchronizing system-file-manager system-help system-lock-screen system-log-out system-run system-search system-software-update task-due task-passed-due text-html text-x-generic text-x-generic-template text-x-script user-away user-desktop user-home user-idle user-offline user-online user-trash user-trash-full utilities-system-monitor utilities-terminal video-display video-x-generic view-fullscreen view-restore view-sort-ascending view-sort-descending weather-clear-night weather-few-clouds weather-few-clouds-night weather-overcast weather-severe-alert weather-showers weather-showers-scattered weather-snow weather-storm window-close x-office-calendar x-office-document x-office-presentation x-office-spreadsheet zoom-best-fit zoom-in zoom-original zoom-out ------ Echo(48): 0 of 5 GTK+ stock icons missing Echo(48): 88 of 266 icon-naming-spec icons missing ------ accessories-character-map accessories-dictionary applications-development applications-engineering applications-science applications-utilities camera-photo camera-video document-page-setup document-properties emblem-default emblem-documents emblem-mail emblem-photos emblem-shared emblem-symbolic-link emblem-synchronized flag-aa folder-new go-home help-about help-browser help-contents help-faq image-missing input-keyboard insert-image insert-link insert-object insert-text mail-attachment mail-mark-notjunk mail-read mail-replied mail-send mail-unread media-flash media-playlist-repeat media-playlist-shuffle media-tape modem multimedia-player multimedia-volume-control network-server network-wired network-wireless object-flip-horizontal object-flip-vertical object-rotate-left object-rotate-right preferences-desktop preferences-desktop-font preferences-desktop-keyboard preferences-desktop-locale preferences-desktop-multimedia preferences-desktop-peripherals preferences-desktop-personal preferences-desktop-theme preferences-other preferences-system preferences-system-network printer-printing security-high security-low security-medium software-update-available software-update-urgent start-here sync-error sync-synchronizing system-file-manager system-help system-run system-software-update task-due task-passed-due user-away user-idle user-offline user-online utilities-system-monitor view-restore view-sort-ascending view-sort-descending weather-few-clouds-night weather-severe-alert weather-storm window-close ------ -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: icon-stats Type: application/x-shellscript Size: 8130 bytes Desc: not available URL: From sdl.web at gmail.com Wed Feb 7 00:17:30 2007 From: sdl.web at gmail.com (Leo) Date: Wed, 07 Feb 2007 00:17:30 +0000 Subject: Echo icon coverage References: <1170790015.13602.8.camel@dhcp83-33.boston.redhat.com> Message-ID: On 2007-02-06, Matthias Clasen said: > Echo(16): 92 of 95 GTK+ stock icons missing > Echo(16): 221 of 266 icon-naming-spec icons missing > Echo(24): 71 of 103 GTK+ stock icons missing > Echo(24): 193 of 266 icon-naming-spec icons missing > Echo(48): 0 of 5 GTK+ stock icons missing > Echo(48): 88 of 266 icon-naming-spec icons missing Seems too little time for Fedora 7 to adopt Echo. -- Leo (GPG Key: 9283AA3F) From luya_tfz at thefinalzone.com Wed Feb 7 02:30:12 2007 From: luya_tfz at thefinalzone.com (Luya Tshimbalanga) Date: Tue, 6 Feb 2007 21:30:12 -0500 Subject: Echo icon coverage In-Reply-To: References: <1170790015.13602.8.camel@dhcp83-33.boston.redhat.com> Message-ID: <1170815412.45c939b4c37f0@ssl.mecca.ca> Quoting Leo : > On 2007-02-06, Matthias Clasen said: > > > Echo(16): 92 of 95 GTK+ stock icons missing > > Echo(16): 221 of 266 icon-naming-spec icons missing > > Echo(24): 71 of 103 GTK+ stock icons missing > > Echo(24): 193 of 266 icon-naming-spec icons missing > > Echo(48): 0 of 5 GTK+ stock icons missing > > Echo(48): 88 of 266 icon-naming-spec icons missing > > Seems too little time for Fedora 7 to adopt Echo. > Let's do our best to complete some of them. Less talk, more action. Afterall, Tango got included by default on GNOME even though the entire set was not finished. Let's focus on essential icons. * I have almost completed the set of weather icons, uploading will be done soon * -- Luya Tshimbalanga Fedora Project contributor http://www.fedoraproject.org/wiki/LuyaTshimbalanga From mclasen at redhat.com Wed Feb 7 02:59:02 2007 From: mclasen at redhat.com (Matthias Clasen) Date: Tue, 06 Feb 2007 21:59:02 -0500 Subject: Echo icon coverage In-Reply-To: References: <1170790015.13602.8.camel@dhcp83-33.boston.redhat.com> Message-ID: <1170817142.3968.2.camel@localhost.localdomain> On Wed, 2007-02-07 at 00:17 +0000, Leo wrote: > > Seems too little time for Fedora 7 to adopt Echo. > That was not the reaction I was hoping for, but some people always prefer to see the negative. From nisses.mail at home.se Wed Feb 7 09:34:45 2007 From: nisses.mail at home.se (Andreas Nilsson) Date: Wed, 07 Feb 2007 10:34:45 +0100 Subject: Echo icon coverage In-Reply-To: <1170815412.45c939b4c37f0@ssl.mecca.ca> References: <1170790015.13602.8.camel@dhcp83-33.boston.redhat.com> <1170815412.45c939b4c37f0@ssl.mecca.ca> Message-ID: <45C99D35.9000507@home.se> Luya Tshimbalanga wrote: > Quoting Leo : > > >> On 2007-02-06, Matthias Clasen said: >> >> >>> Echo(16): 92 of 95 GTK+ stock icons missing >>> Echo(16): 221 of 266 icon-naming-spec icons missing >>> Echo(24): 71 of 103 GTK+ stock icons missing >>> Echo(24): 193 of 266 icon-naming-spec icons missing >>> Echo(48): 0 of 5 GTK+ stock icons missing >>> Echo(48): 88 of 266 icon-naming-spec icons missing >>> >> Seems too little time for Fedora 7 to adopt Echo. >> >> > > Let's do our best to complete some of them. Less talk, more action. > Afterall, Tango got included by default on GNOME even though the entire set was > not finished. Let's focus on essential icons. > Hi Luya! I assume you mean gnome-icon-theme (and not tango-icon-theme), the module with all the icons was already in there, we just updated the set to follow the naming-spec and the (tango) style guidelines. I see your point though, just wanted to clear stuff up. :) - Andreas From luya_tfz at thefinalzone.com Wed Feb 7 11:04:53 2007 From: luya_tfz at thefinalzone.com (Luya Tshimbalanga) Date: Wed, 07 Feb 2007 03:04:53 -0800 Subject: Luya's Weather Icons In-Reply-To: <9c3bfa1d0702060518k8e36d99na2e563168c909fb4@mail.gmail.com> References: <9c3bfa1d0702060518k8e36d99na2e563168c909fb4@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <45C9B255.2090704@thefinalzone.com> Ben Arnold wrote: > Luya, > > I like the snow icon you attached to the messages but how about > overlaying a little blur to the fog? Done, here is a preview and the svg file -- ??D0 -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: weather-fogL.svg Type: image/svg+xml Size: 45647 bytes Desc: not available URL: From ben.arnold.inbox at gmail.com Wed Feb 7 11:29:24 2007 From: ben.arnold.inbox at gmail.com (Ben Arnold) Date: Wed, 7 Feb 2007 11:29:24 +0000 Subject: Luya's Weather Icons In-Reply-To: <45C9B255.2090704@thefinalzone.com> References: <9c3bfa1d0702060518k8e36d99na2e563168c909fb4@mail.gmail.com> <45C9B255.2090704@thefinalzone.com> Message-ID: <9c3bfa1d0702070329k3c401e55yc3bbf16afd6d4abc@mail.gmail.com> On 07/02/07, Luya Tshimbalanga wrote: > > Done, here is a preview and the svg file > That looks great. Thanks for the contribution and the consideration! ./Ben -- ..// seawolf //.. Ben Arnold e-mail / msn / icq / yahoo iamseawolf (at) gmail (dot) com http://clik.to/seawolfsanctuary fedora core : artwork GnuPG Available - ask me! From luya at fedoraproject.org Wed Feb 7 11:26:57 2007 From: luya at fedoraproject.org (Luya Tshimbalanga) Date: Wed, 07 Feb 2007 03:26:57 -0800 Subject: Echo icon coverage In-Reply-To: <45C99D35.9000507@home.se> References: <1170790015.13602.8.camel@dhcp83-33.boston.redhat.com> <1170815412.45c939b4c37f0@ssl.mecca.ca> <45C99D35.9000507@home.se> Message-ID: <45C9B781.1010009@fedoraproject.org> Andreas Nilsson wrote: > Hi Luya! > I assume you mean gnome-icon-theme (and not tango-icon-theme), the > module with all the icons was already in there, we just updated the > set to follow the naming-spec and the (tango) style guidelines. > I see your point though, just wanted to clear stuff up. :) > - Andreas > I stand corrected. From dfong at redhat.com Wed Feb 7 17:15:30 2007 From: dfong at redhat.com (Diana Fong) Date: Wed, 07 Feb 2007 12:15:30 -0500 Subject: Echo icon coverage In-Reply-To: <1170815412.45c939b4c37f0@ssl.mecca.ca> References: <1170790015.13602.8.camel@dhcp83-33.boston.redhat.com> <1170815412.45c939b4c37f0@ssl.mecca.ca> Message-ID: <45CA0932.3050403@redhat.com> Luya Tshimbalanga wrote: > Quoting Leo : > > >> On 2007-02-06, Matthias Clasen said: >> >> >>> Echo(16): 92 of 95 GTK+ stock icons missing >>> Echo(16): 221 of 266 icon-naming-spec icons missing >>> Echo(24): 71 of 103 GTK+ stock icons missing >>> Echo(24): 193 of 266 icon-naming-spec icons missing >>> Echo(48): 0 of 5 GTK+ stock icons missing >>> Echo(48): 88 of 266 icon-naming-spec icons missing >>> >> Seems too little time for Fedora 7 to adopt Echo. >> >> > > Let's do our best to complete some of them. Less talk, more action. > Afterall, Tango got included by default on GNOME even though the entire set was > not finished. Let's focus on essential icons. > > * I have almost completed the set of weather icons, uploading will be done soon > * > Yes, it does seem like a daunting task and with Matthias's numbers it might seem even more overwhelming. However, these numbers answer such questions as: what is the current Echo status, which icons are needed for a "complete" set, and what needs to be worked on. From the numbers it is clear that Echo's inclusion in the FC7's development cycle is for encouragement and feedback...that a final decision have not been made. What is a complete set...or complete enough set...to be included? There are three major types of icon work to be done: 1) creating the obvious missing icons from the list (Many of the bits already exist in creating missing icons.) 2) creating the missing size variations of existing icons (Requires time in resizing and possibly simplifying the existing icons to look its best in smaller sizes). 3) fine-tuning (fixing) existing icons from bug reports. By focusing on these types of work, the numbers of missing icons will start to decrease and a reasonable set could possibly emerge in time for FC7. These should be the current focus instead of 22x22 versions or KDE forks. As the set becomes more complete, specific sizes and versions could be created. Luya and Ben have been continuing Echo icon work and I will joining their efforts by resuming icon creation starting next week. My personal plan is to start with modifications to the Mail Icons [1] and arrow icons. Then based on Matthias's list, I will start to fill in the missing pieces. In the meantime, I've posted an Echo Guide on the wiki [2] for any that might be interested. I do plan to provide examples under the "Echo Icons in Grids" section at a later date. [1] https://bugzilla.redhat.com/bugzilla/show_bug.cgi?id=213259 [2] http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Artwork/EchoIconGuidelines Diana --- Red Hat Visual Designer | Desktop Group From chitlesh at fedoraproject.org Wed Feb 7 19:40:08 2007 From: chitlesh at fedoraproject.org (Chitlesh GOORAH) Date: Wed, 7 Feb 2007 20:40:08 +0100 Subject: Echo icon coverage In-Reply-To: <45CA0932.3050403@redhat.com> References: <1170790015.13602.8.camel@dhcp83-33.boston.redhat.com> <1170815412.45c939b4c37f0@ssl.mecca.ca> <45CA0932.3050403@redhat.com> Message-ID: <13dbfe4f0702071140x8fee874xeba2617ce5ae5fa8@mail.gmail.com> On 2/7/07, Diana Fong wrote: > 2) creating the missing size variations of existing icons (Requires time > in resizing and possibly simplifying the existing icons to look its best > in smaller sizes). Hello, do you guys have an automated way to carry out the resize ? Tell me, how you would proceed, I'll be ready to help out resizing a few for 22x22 :) Chitlesh -- http://clunixchit.blogspot.com From mclasen at redhat.com Wed Feb 7 19:51:44 2007 From: mclasen at redhat.com (Matthias Clasen) Date: Wed, 07 Feb 2007 14:51:44 -0500 Subject: Echo icon coverage In-Reply-To: <13dbfe4f0702071140x8fee874xeba2617ce5ae5fa8@mail.gmail.com> References: <1170790015.13602.8.camel@dhcp83-33.boston.redhat.com> <1170815412.45c939b4c37f0@ssl.mecca.ca> <45CA0932.3050403@redhat.com> <13dbfe4f0702071140x8fee874xeba2617ce5ae5fa8@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <1170877904.3444.14.camel@localhost.localdomain> On Wed, 2007-02-07 at 20:40 +0100, Chitlesh GOORAH wrote: > On 2/7/07, Diana Fong wrote: > > 2) creating the missing size variations of existing icons (Requires time > > in resizing and possibly simplifying the existing icons to look its best > > in smaller sizes). > > Hello, > do you guys have an automated way to carry out the resize ? > Tell me, how you would proceed, I'll be ready to help out resizing a > few for 22x22 :) > It would be really nice to investigate changing the kde toolbar icon size to 24 before we double the size of the icon theme. From david at fubar.dk Wed Feb 7 20:21:46 2007 From: david at fubar.dk (David Zeuthen) Date: Wed, 07 Feb 2007 15:21:46 -0500 Subject: Echo icon coverage In-Reply-To: <13dbfe4f0702071140x8fee874xeba2617ce5ae5fa8@mail.gmail.com> References: <1170790015.13602.8.camel@dhcp83-33.boston.redhat.com> <1170815412.45c939b4c37f0@ssl.mecca.ca> <45CA0932.3050403@redhat.com> <13dbfe4f0702071140x8fee874xeba2617ce5ae5fa8@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <1170879706.3315.18.camel@zelda.fubar.dk> On Wed, 2007-02-07 at 20:40 +0100, Chitlesh GOORAH wrote: > On 2/7/07, Diana Fong wrote: > > 2) creating the missing size variations of existing icons (Requires time > > in resizing and possibly simplifying the existing icons to look its best > > in smaller sizes). > > Hello, > do you guys have an automated way to carry out the resize ? > Tell me, how you would proceed, I'll be ready to help out resizing a > few for 22x22 :) Uhm, I thought we've already had discussed that it's a bug if KDE cannot use 24x24 icons. It's like this: we're just not going to add more icons, causing live cd's to spill over, increasing memory pressure and put extra pressure on Diana and Luya... just to paper over a bug in KDE. Sorry, but it just don't work this way. I hope you understand that. Thanks. David From mclasen at redhat.com Wed Feb 7 20:35:43 2007 From: mclasen at redhat.com (Matthias Clasen) Date: Wed, 07 Feb 2007 15:35:43 -0500 Subject: Echo icon coverage In-Reply-To: <13dbfe4f0702071140x8fee874xeba2617ce5ae5fa8@mail.gmail.com> References: <1170790015.13602.8.camel@dhcp83-33.boston.redhat.com> <1170815412.45c939b4c37f0@ssl.mecca.ca> <45CA0932.3050403@redhat.com> <13dbfe4f0702071140x8fee874xeba2617ce5ae5fa8@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <1170880543.3444.17.camel@localhost.localdomain> On Wed, 2007-02-07 at 20:40 +0100, Chitlesh GOORAH wrote: > On 2/7/07, Diana Fong wrote: > > 2) creating the missing size variations of existing icons (Requires time > > in resizing and possibly simplifying the existing icons to look its best > > in smaller sizes). > > Hello, > do you guys have an automated way to carry out the resize ? > Tell me, how you would proceed, I'll be ready to help out resizing a > few for 22x22 :) > Following up on my earlier response, I see this (copy-pasted) block in the Echo index.theme file: # KDE Specific Stuff DisplayDepth=32 LinkOverlay=link_overlay LockOverlay=lock_overlay ZipOverlay=zip_overlay DesktopDefault=48 DesktopSizes=16,22,32,48,64,72,96,128 ToolbarDefault=22 ToolbarSizes=16,22,32,48 MainToolbarDefault=22 MainToolbarSizes=16,22,32,48 SmallDefault=16 SmallSizes=16 PanelDefault=32 PanelSizes=16,22,32,48,64,72,96,128 I have no ideas what these settings do in detail, but I think moving them closer to reality might help to improve KDE/Echo compatibility... From luya at fedoraproject.org Wed Feb 7 20:43:18 2007 From: luya at fedoraproject.org (Luya Tshimbalanga) Date: Wed, 07 Feb 2007 12:43:18 -0800 Subject: Echo icon coverage In-Reply-To: <1170880543.3444.17.camel@localhost.localdomain> References: <1170790015.13602.8.camel@dhcp83-33.boston.redhat.com> <1170815412.45c939b4c37f0@ssl.mecca.ca> <45CA0932.3050403@redhat.com> <13dbfe4f0702071140x8fee874xeba2617ce5ae5fa8@mail.gmail.com> <1170880543.3444.17.camel@localhost.localdomain> Message-ID: <45CA39E6.3090508@fedoraproject.org> Matthias Clasen wrote: > Following up on my earlier response, I see this (copy-pasted) block in > the Echo index.theme file: > > # KDE Specific Stuff > DisplayDepth=32 > LinkOverlay=link_overlay > LockOverlay=lock_overlay > ZipOverlay=zip_overlay > DesktopDefault=48 > DesktopSizes=16,22,32,48,64,72,96,128 > ToolbarDefault=22 > ToolbarSizes=16,22,32,48 > MainToolbarDefault=22 > MainToolbarSizes=16,22,32,48 > SmallDefault=16 > SmallSizes=16 > PanelDefault=32 > PanelSizes=16,22,32,48,64,72,96,128 > > I have no ideas what these settings do in detail, but I think moving > them closer to reality might help to improve KDE/Echo compatibility... > > Odd that 24x24 is missing and 22x22 is used. This is definitively a KDE bug that has not be sorted for a while. As noticed on other bug report[1], one should investigate the problem. Chitlesh and KDE contributor, could you do it? From chitlesh at fedoraproject.org Wed Feb 7 23:49:46 2007 From: chitlesh at fedoraproject.org (Chitlesh GOORAH) Date: Thu, 8 Feb 2007 00:49:46 +0100 Subject: Echo icon coverage In-Reply-To: <45CA39E6.3090508@fedoraproject.org> References: <1170790015.13602.8.camel@dhcp83-33.boston.redhat.com> <1170815412.45c939b4c37f0@ssl.mecca.ca> <45CA0932.3050403@redhat.com> <13dbfe4f0702071140x8fee874xeba2617ce5ae5fa8@mail.gmail.com> <1170880543.3444.17.camel@localhost.localdomain> <45CA39E6.3090508@fedoraproject.org> Message-ID: <13dbfe4f0702071549k6b4c4d0fia0765c2de850cdc7@mail.gmail.com> On 2/7/07, Luya Tshimbalanga wrote: > Odd that 24x24 is missing and 22x22 is used. This is definitively a KDE > bug that has not be sorted for a while. As noticed on other bug > report[1], one should investigate the problem. We were wrong. At least, I was wrong to say that we actually need a 22x22 folder. So this is not a kde bug. But still, I see another kde bug. I explained in #217832 > Chitlesh and KDE contributor, could you do it? Yes: https://bugzilla.redhat.com/bugzilla/show_bug.cgi?id=217832 On 2/7/07, David Zeuthen wrote: > Uhm, I thought we've already had discussed that it's a bug if KDE cannot > use 24x24 icons. It's like this: we're just not going to add more icons, > causing live cd's to spill over, increasing memory pressure and put > extra pressure on Diana and Luya... just to paper over a bug in KDE. > Sorry, but it just don't work this way. I hope you understand that. > Thanks. Yes, I know David. however when I talked about resize, I was also thinking to learn new thing s from fedora-artists new techniques about automated scaling techniques :) Now, we have a new step/direction to consider. Chitlesh -- http://clunixchit.blogspot.com From nicu_fedora at nicubunu.ro Thu Feb 8 06:19:12 2007 From: nicu_fedora at nicubunu.ro (Nicu Buculei) Date: Thu, 08 Feb 2007 08:19:12 +0200 Subject: Echo icon coverage In-Reply-To: <13dbfe4f0702071140x8fee874xeba2617ce5ae5fa8@mail.gmail.com> References: <1170790015.13602.8.camel@dhcp83-33.boston.redhat.com> <1170815412.45c939b4c37f0@ssl.mecca.ca> <45CA0932.3050403@redhat.com> <13dbfe4f0702071140x8fee874xeba2617ce5ae5fa8@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <45CAC0E0.10104@nicubunu.ro> Chitlesh GOORAH wrote: > > Hello, > do you guys have an automated way to carry out the resize ? > Tell me, how you would proceed, I'll be ready to help out resizing a > few for 22x22 :) Have a look here to see how the resizing should be done properly: http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=6981040679905170779 Doing it in other way would result in a blurry, unclear icon. -- nicu Cool Fedora wallpapers: http://fedora.nicubunu.ro/wallpapers/ Open Clip Art Library: http://www.openclipart.org my Fedora stuff: http://fedora.nicubunu.ro From baerjj at gmail.com Thu Feb 8 18:45:56 2007 From: baerjj at gmail.com (John Baer) Date: Thu, 8 Feb 2007 13:45:56 -0500 Subject: Flying High with Fedora 7 Message-ID: <484ace5d0702081045k4ae163eax4b2818554cce3508@mail.gmail.com> All, I posted a new RHGB-Mockup submission for your consideration. http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Artwork/FC7Themes/Fc7ThemeProposalFlyingHighRound2 The colors are those currently in use (could be something different) and the artwork is *technical* with a hint of 3-D. I also experimented with the Fedora branding in the lower right corner. I will install it on a couple of different systems to see how it plays out. Cheers, John -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From baerjj at gmail.com Fri Feb 9 00:55:50 2007 From: baerjj at gmail.com (John Baer) Date: Thu, 08 Feb 2007 19:55:50 -0500 Subject: Flying High with Fedora 7 (2) Message-ID: <1170982550.3480.7.camel@localhost.localdomain> All, I realize there is already a post in the que but I made some minor improvements to the RHGB Mockup submission and re-uploaded it to http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Artwork/FC7Themes/Fc7ThemeProposalFlyingHighRound2 I couldn't find my notes on the current RHGB colors so I made my best guess. Cheers, John From baerjj at gmail.com Fri Feb 9 01:04:36 2007 From: baerjj at gmail.com (John Baer) Date: Thu, 08 Feb 2007 20:04:36 -0500 Subject: Flying High with Fedora 7 In-Reply-To: <20070205141204.DCA237348E@hormel.redhat.com> References: <20070205141204.DCA237348E@hormel.redhat.com> Message-ID: <1170983076.3480.13.camel@localhost.localdomain> Uno wrote: > Now it would be nice if the lighter blue color of the "Clouds" > wallpaper > could rub off on other > parts of the GUI, e.g. such as login screen. > Now that I have a revised RHGB submission in place I can take some time to look at the GDM login. I am unclear of your vision but I believe you want something like the GDM login at this link. http://art.gnome.org/themes/gdm_greeter/1229 Is this correct? If not, can you point me toward something to help me see your desire. Cheers, John From mclasen at redhat.com Fri Feb 9 05:56:10 2007 From: mclasen at redhat.com (Matthias Clasen) Date: Fri, 09 Feb 2007 00:56:10 -0500 Subject: Echo coverage Message-ID: <45CC0CFA.3090000@redhat.com> I looked over the panel menus to see how well Echo covers these very visible icons. Here is a list of missing icons with their names: Menus ----- Applications>Programming gnome-devel Applications>System preferences-system Applications>Other gnome-other System>Preferences gnome-settings System>Preferences>Personal user-info System>Preferences>Look And Feel preferences-desktop System>Preferences>Hardware preferences-desktop-peripherals System>Preferences>System preferences-system System>Administration redhat-system_settings Application icons ----------------- Archive Manager file-roller Character Map gucharmap Dictionary gnome-dictionary Screenshot applets-screenshooter Configuration Editor gconf-editor Bluetooth File Sharing blueradio-48 File Manager file-manager Keyring Manager stock_keyring Software Updater pup Add/Remove Software pirut Preferences ----------- About Me user-info Input Method im-chooser Keyboard Accessibility gnome-settings-accessibility-keyboard Keyboard Shortcuts gnome-settings-keybindings Preferred Applications gnome-settings-default=applications Volume Control gnome-mixer Desktop Effects desktop-effects Font gnome-settings-font Menus & Toolbars gnome-settings-ui-behaviour Theme gnome-settings-theme Windows gnome-window-manager Bluetooth Preferences stock_bluetooth Network Proxy stock_proxy Personal File Sharing apacheconf Remote Desktop gnome-remote-desktop Keyboard gnome-dev-keyboard PalmOS Devices gnome-palm Screen Resolution display-capplet Sound gnome-mixer Power Management gpm-power-charged Sessions session-properties Main Menu Editor alacarte Shut down gnome-shutdown From luya_tfz at thefinalzone.com Fri Feb 9 08:54:51 2007 From: luya_tfz at thefinalzone.com (Luya Tshimbalanga) Date: Fri, 9 Feb 2007 03:54:51 -0500 Subject: Echo coverage In-Reply-To: <45CC0CFA.3090000@redhat.com> References: <45CC0CFA.3090000@redhat.com> Message-ID: <1171011291.45cc36dbaf8e7@ssl.mecca.ca> Not very surprisingly short as expected. Quoting Matthias Clasen : > Software Updater pup Current Software Updater icon is based from Echo IIRC. > Add/Remove Software pirut > Power Management gpm-power-charged Does gpm-primary-charged count? > Sessions session-properties > Main Menu Editor alacarte > > Shut down gnome-shutdown I think a slight variation of the current shutdown icon should be good. -- Luya Tshimbalanga Fedora Project contributor http://www.fedoraproject.org/wiki/LuyaTshimbalang From martin.sourada at seznam.cz Fri Feb 9 10:32:53 2007 From: martin.sourada at seznam.cz (Martin Sourada) Date: Fri, 09 Feb 2007 11:32:53 +0100 Subject: go-home echo icon concept Message-ID: <45CC4DD5.1090905@seznam.cz> Hi, I am new to this list. I am the person who is making the echo theme for firefox2. So I made a concept of go-home icon, which is currently missing. I based it on the tango go-home icon and used echo colors. What do you think of it? What needs to be done? png 24x24: svg: http://feannatar.hostuju.cz/fedora/files/echo/go-home.svg From baerjj at gmail.com Fri Feb 9 12:54:30 2007 From: baerjj at gmail.com (John Baer) Date: Fri, 9 Feb 2007 07:54:30 -0500 Subject: Flying High with Fedora 7 Message-ID: <484ace5d0702090454wac8fbcuc748aebfa81caa32@mail.gmail.com> Uno, I uploaded a new GDM login submission to http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Artwork/FC7Themes/Fc7ThemeProposalFlyingHighRound2?action=show for your consideration. I borrowed the wallpaper image, removed the balloons, and darken the clouds to provide a transition from the RHGB to the wallpaper. After thinking about it I would like to keep the *login* widget as I re-use it in the ScreenSaver unlock graphic. Cheers, John -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From duffy at redhat.com Fri Feb 9 15:04:25 2007 From: duffy at redhat.com (=?ISO-8859-1?Q?M=E1ir=EDn_Duffy?=) Date: Fri, 09 Feb 2007 10:04:25 -0500 Subject: Echo coverage In-Reply-To: <1171011291.45cc36dbaf8e7@ssl.mecca.ca> References: <45CC0CFA.3090000@redhat.com> <1171011291.45cc36dbaf8e7@ssl.mecca.ca> Message-ID: <45CC8D79.9080407@redhat.com> Luya Tshimbalanga wrote: > Not very surprisingly short as expected. > > Quoting Matthias Clasen : > >> Software Updater pup > Current Software Updater icon is based from Echo IIRC. It is. http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Artwork/PupletIcons?action=info (somehow the files appear to be missing on the wiki page but you can get them from the history) ~m From mclasen at redhat.com Fri Feb 9 15:11:24 2007 From: mclasen at redhat.com (Matthias Clasen) Date: Fri, 09 Feb 2007 10:11:24 -0500 Subject: Echo coverage In-Reply-To: <1171011291.45cc36dbaf8e7@ssl.mecca.ca> References: <45CC0CFA.3090000@redhat.com> <1171011291.45cc36dbaf8e7@ssl.mecca.ca> Message-ID: <45CC8F1C.6090307@redhat.com> Luya Tshimbalanga wrote: > Not very surprisingly short as expected. > > Quoting Matthias Clasen : > > >> Software Updater pup >> > Current Software Updater icon is based from Echo IIRC. > > yes, the icon looks fine. I just didn't find it when I looked through /usr/share/icons/Echo, since it lives in /usr/share/pixmaps >> Power Management gpm-power-charged >> > Does gpm-primary-charged count? > > Yes, I typoed there. The icon is fine. >> Sessions session-properties >> Main Menu Editor alacarte >> >> Shut down gnome-shutdown >> > I think a slight variation of the current shutdown icon should be good. > Probably. The current icons feels a looks a little bit too large for me, compared to the other icons in the menu From uno at webworks.se Fri Feb 9 18:49:26 2007 From: uno at webworks.se (Uno Engborg) Date: Fri, 09 Feb 2007 19:49:26 +0100 Subject: Flying High with Fedora 7 In-Reply-To: <1170983076.3480.13.camel@localhost.localdomain> References: <20070205141204.DCA237348E@hormel.redhat.com> <1170983076.3480.13.camel@localhost.localdomain> Message-ID: <45CCC236.1060406@webworks.se> John Baer skrev: > Uno wrote: > >> Now it would be nice if the lighter blue color of the "Clouds" >> wallpaper >> could rub off on other >> parts of the GUI, e.g. such as login screen. >> >> > > Now that I have a revised RHGB submission in place I can take some time > to look at the GDM login. I am unclear of your vision but I believe you > want something like the GDM login at this link. > > http://art.gnome.org/themes/gdm_greeter/1229 > > Is this correct? If not, can you point me toward something to help me > see your desire. > > Actually, what I was looking for, was the "Clouds" login screen from in the link from your previous post. I just wanted a more unified look in varios parts of the system, but that seam to be fixed already. Regards Uno Engborg -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: smime.p7s Type: application/x-pkcs7-signature Size: 3271 bytes Desc: S/MIME Cryptographic Signature URL: From uno at webworks.se Fri Feb 9 19:37:45 2007 From: uno at webworks.se (Uno Engborg) Date: Fri, 09 Feb 2007 20:37:45 +0100 Subject: Flying High with Fedora 7 In-Reply-To: <484ace5d0702090454wac8fbcuc748aebfa81caa32@mail.gmail.com> References: <484ace5d0702090454wac8fbcuc748aebfa81caa32@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <45CCCD89.5020707@webworks.se> John Baer skrev: > Uno, > > I uploaded a new GDM login submission to > > http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Artwork/FC7Themes/Fc7ThemeProposalFlyingHighRound2?action=show > > > for your consideration. I borrowed the wallpaper image, removed the > balloons, and darken the clouds to provide a transition from the RHGB > to the wallpaper. After thinking about it I would like to keep the > *login* widget as I re-use it in the ScreenSaver unlock graphic. As I said in a previous letter, it looks very good. I'm not sure the darkening of the clouds better cope with the transition from the RHGB is all that necessary. After all, I guess, most people will log in and out without rebooting the computer, so they will only see the transiton between the ordinary desktop and the GDM screen. On the other hand, it looks good, so I'd say don't change it. I must admit, I didn't even notice that it was darker until I compared them side by side. Regards Uno Engborg -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: smime.p7s Type: application/x-pkcs7-signature Size: 3271 bytes Desc: S/MIME Cryptographic Signature URL: From luya_tfz at thefinalzone.com Fri Feb 9 20:47:01 2007 From: luya_tfz at thefinalzone.com (Luya Tshimbalanga) Date: Fri, 09 Feb 2007 12:47:01 -0800 Subject: New weather icons Message-ID: <45CCDDC5.7080006@thefinalzone.com> Here is new weather icons preview. They are available in the wiki too. -- ??D0 -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: weather-stormL.png Type: image/png Size: 4377 bytes Desc: not available URL: From stickster at gmail.com Sun Feb 11 20:54:49 2007 From: stickster at gmail.com (Paul W. Frields) Date: Sun, 11 Feb 2007 15:54:49 -0500 Subject: New weather icons In-Reply-To: <45CCDDC5.7080006@thefinalzone.com> References: <45CCDDC5.7080006@thefinalzone.com> Message-ID: <1171227289.3985.2.camel@localhost.localdomain> On Fri, 2007-02-09 at 12:47 -0800, Luya Tshimbalanga wrote: > Here is new weather icons preview. They are available in the wiki too. Luya, The alert indicator in the severe weather icon is extremely small at the expected icon size -- can you make it bigger relative to the cloud? -- Paul W. Frields, RHCE http://paul.frields.org/ gpg fingerprint: 3DA6 A0AC 6D58 FEC4 0233 5906 ACDB C937 BD11 3717 Fedora Project Board: http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Board Fedora Docs Project: http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/DocsProject -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: signature.asc Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 189 bytes Desc: This is a digitally signed message part URL: From baerjj at gmail.com Mon Feb 12 02:19:27 2007 From: baerjj at gmail.com (John Baer) Date: Sun, 11 Feb 2007 21:19:27 -0500 Subject: Flying High with Fedora 7 - Rc1 Message-ID: <1171246767.11094.6.camel@localhost.localdomain> All, As we arrive at our deadline of February 12th I posted my latest submissions to a new wiki page titled rc1. http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Fc7ThemeProposalFlyingHighRc1 IMO this theme represents Fedora well and if selected will be well received. Thanks everyone for your support and help. Cheers, John From luya_tfz at thefinalzone.com Mon Feb 12 06:10:33 2007 From: luya_tfz at thefinalzone.com (Luya Tshimbalanga) Date: Sun, 11 Feb 2007 22:10:33 -0800 Subject: New weather icons In-Reply-To: <1171227289.3985.2.camel@localhost.localdomain> References: <45CCDDC5.7080006@thefinalzone.com> <1171227289.3985.2.camel@localhost.localdomain> Message-ID: <45D004D9.5050208@thefinalzone.com> Paul W. Frields wrote: > Luya, > > The alert indicator in the severe weather icon is extremely small at the > expected icon size -- can you make it bigger relative to the cloud? > Fixed. Also added smaller version of weather-severe-alert. -- ??D0 -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: weather-severe-alertL.png Type: image/png Size: 4190 bytes Desc: not available URL: From ben.arnold.inbox at gmail.com Mon Feb 12 11:55:37 2007 From: ben.arnold.inbox at gmail.com (Ben Arnold) Date: Mon, 12 Feb 2007 11:55:37 +0000 Subject: [FC7 theme proposal] Fedora Borealis/Clifftop - complete graphic set Message-ID: <9c3bfa1d0702120355i470aaccdtb064a54f2658200a@mail.gmail.com> All, I have a complete set of artwork for the Borealis/Clifftop set for consideration. The only thing I've left to do is create a working GDM program/script but all the graphics are there. I'll have a stab at it this week as it'll be the first time I've ventrued into this but if anyone wants to save me a bit of time, feel free to try the GDM screen yourselves ;-) The images and SVGs are below Marian's original idea lot, under the heading of Set 2. http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Fc7ThemeProposalFedoraBorealis Thanks, Ben -- ..// seawolf //.. Ben Arnold e-mail / msn / icq / yahoo iamseawolf (at) gmail (dot) com http://clik.to/seawolfsanctuary fedora core : artwork GnuPG Available - ask me! From baerjj at gmail.com Tue Feb 13 13:39:15 2007 From: baerjj at gmail.com (John Baer) Date: Tue, 13 Feb 2007 08:39:15 -0500 Subject: Houston, do we have a problem? Message-ID: <484ace5d0702130539q7c9b5937x3391395ffab09a41@mail.gmail.com> All, On this day I am reminded of one of my favorite movies Apollo 13. What a classic example of what can be accomplished when folks simply decide to work together to accomplish a well defined task. With that thought in mind let me offer my thanks to Ben, Jiri (JJM), Mo, and others for taking the time and effort to submit artwork for fedora 7. In the spirit of Open Source this is truly what it is all about. As communication from "fedora" has been intermittent of late, I now concern there is a problem. Diana, Rahul, David, or someone {?}, can you explain clearly how the "default" artwork will make it into fedora 7. Next steps would also be helpful. Thanks, John -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From nicu_fedora at nicubunu.ro Tue Feb 13 13:58:39 2007 From: nicu_fedora at nicubunu.ro (Nicu Buculei) Date: Tue, 13 Feb 2007 15:58:39 +0200 Subject: Houston, do we have a problem? In-Reply-To: <484ace5d0702130539q7c9b5937x3391395ffab09a41@mail.gmail.com> References: <484ace5d0702130539q7c9b5937x3391395ffab09a41@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <45D1C40F.4070601@nicubunu.ro> John Baer wrote: > > As communication from "fedora" has been intermittent of late, I now > concern there is a problem. Diana, Rahul, David, or someone {?}, can you > explain clearly how the "default" artwork will make it into fedora 7. > Next steps would also be helpful. Ok, I hope I qualify as "someone". I directed you some days ago at http://www.isity.net/blog/?p=57 Development on the Fedora 7 theme is ongoing but not on this list but behind some closed doors and we are not invited to the party. -- nicu Cool Fedora wallpapers: http://fedora.nicubunu.ro/wallpapers/ Open Clip Art Library: http://www.openclipart.org my Fedora stuff: http://fedora.nicubunu.ro From ben.arnold.inbox at gmail.com Tue Feb 13 18:54:52 2007 From: ben.arnold.inbox at gmail.com (Ben Arnold) Date: Tue, 13 Feb 2007 18:54:52 +0000 Subject: Houston, do we have a problem? In-Reply-To: <45D1C40F.4070601@nicubunu.ro> References: <484ace5d0702130539q7c9b5937x3391395ffab09a41@mail.gmail.com> <45D1C40F.4070601@nicubunu.ro> Message-ID: <9c3bfa1d0702131054l7b76424epfe41108718189770@mail.gmail.com> Thanks, I was wondering that myself. I'm sure they will send a message to this list when the decisions and developments are made :) On 13/02/07, Nicu Buculei wrote: > Development on the Fedora 7 theme is ongoing but not on this list but > behind some closed doors and we are not invited to the party. -- ..// seawolf //.. Ben Arnold e-mail / msn / icq / yahoo iamseawolf (at) gmail (dot) com http://clik.to/seawolfsanctuary fedora core : artwork GnuPG Available - ask me! From baerjj at gmail.com Wed Feb 14 00:39:02 2007 From: baerjj at gmail.com (John Baer) Date: Tue, 13 Feb 2007 19:39:02 -0500 Subject: A sad day for Fedora, A disappointment for Open Source In-Reply-To: <20070213170005.15DA773321@hormel.redhat.com> References: <20070213170005.15DA773321@hormel.redhat.com> Message-ID: <1171413542.3449.37.camel@localhost.localdomain> Nicu wrote: > Ok, I hope I qualify as "someone". > I directed you some days ago at http://www.isity.net/blog/?p=57 > Development on the Fedora 7 theme is ongoing but not on this list but > behind some closed doors and we are not invited to the party. > This is truly a sad day for Fedora and a disappointment for the community of Open Source. If Fedora did not want our help simply state it, close down the list server, call it good. Diana certainly has the skill and talent to do the artwork and obviously doesn't need our help. Letting this sham go on for months while folks invest their time and honest effort is completely contrary to the spirit of open source. To add insult to injury all of the time we are working on artwork Fedora launches "echo" in RC1 although the decision on artwork is pending and many would agree the "echo" project is incomplete and not tested. It sounds to me there are personal agendas playing out and those agendas have nothing to do with open source and the community of fedora. At this point the only thing left to do is make up excuses and assign blame. Pity, John From uno at webworks.se Wed Feb 14 04:50:16 2007 From: uno at webworks.se (Uno Engborg) Date: Wed, 14 Feb 2007 05:50:16 +0100 Subject: A sad day for Fedora, A disappointment for Open Source In-Reply-To: <1171413542.3449.37.camel@localhost.localdomain> References: <20070213170005.15DA773321@hormel.redhat.com> <1171413542.3449.37.camel@localhost.localdomain> Message-ID: <45D29508.7030101@webworks.se> John Baer skrev: > Nicu wrote: > >> Ok, I hope I qualify as "someone". >> I directed you some days ago at http://www.isity.net/blog/?p=57 >> Development on the Fedora 7 theme is ongoing but not on this list but >> behind some closed doors and we are not invited to the party. >> >> > > This is truly a sad day for Fedora and a disappointment for the > community of Open Source. > > If Fedora did not want our help simply state it, close down the list > server, call it good. Diana certainly has the skill and talent to do the > artwork and obviously doesn't need our help. > Unfortunately I don't agree with you. Diana seam to be a fine artist, you are right in that. The problem is, that it takes more than being a fine artist to make a good desktop theme. In fact being a fine artist may even be a problem as most good art is about making a statement, while creating a desktop theme is more like making visual elevator music. It should be there, it should look reasonably good but not draw too much attention or create any major mood swings of the observer, it should help the user find the way in the system. The balance between being dull and very good is very delicate. To get it right, you need a little knowledge in HCI besides good artistic skills, and judging from previous theme disasters in Fedora, Diana doesn't seam to have such HCI skills. I'm really glad I didn't discover the Fedora art project, until it was too late to make any new contributions, if I had made such an effort as many others on this list have done, I would have been seriously pissed off. If English had been my native language I probably had written some articles to /. or osnews.com about this, to warn people from wasting time on Fedora when they ask for help. Regards Uno Engborg From luya_tfz at thefinalzone.com Wed Feb 14 08:07:45 2007 From: luya_tfz at thefinalzone.com (Luya Tshimbalanga) Date: Wed, 14 Feb 2007 03:07:45 -0500 Subject: A sad day for Fedora, A disappointment for Open Source In-Reply-To: <1171413542.3449.37.camel@localhost.localdomain> References: <20070213170005.15DA773321@hormel.redhat.com> <1171413542.3449.37.camel@localhost.localdomain> Message-ID: <1171440465.45d2c351d3ad9@ssl.mecca.ca> Quoting John Baer : > To add insult to injury all of the time we are working on artwork Fedora > launches "echo" in RC1 although the decision on artwork is pending and > many would agree the "echo" project is incomplete and not tested. Actually it is tested through FC6 (I primairly use it by default) and F7T1. So far there is six bugs reports and I currently investigating one of them. Remember no icon theme will be completed because applications use their own. For now, main icons are priority. -- Luya Tshimbalanga Fedora Project contributor http://www.fedoraproject.org/wiki/LuyaTshimbalanga From jfrieben at gmx.de Wed Feb 14 09:10:49 2007 From: jfrieben at gmx.de (Joachim Frieben) Date: Wed, 14 Feb 2007 10:10:49 +0100 Subject: A sad day for Fedora, A disappointment for Open Source In-Reply-To: <1171413542.3449.37.camel@localhost.localdomain> References: <20070213170005.15DA773321@hormel.redhat.com> <1171413542.3449.37.camel@localhost.localdomain> Message-ID: <20070214091049.30040@gmx.net> > This is truly a sad day for Fedora and a disappointment for the > community of Open Source. > > If Fedora did not want our help simply state it, close down the list > server, call it good. Diana certainly has the skill and talent to do the > artwork and obviously doesn't need our help. > > Letting this sham go on for months while folks invest their time and > honest effort is completely contrary to the spirit of open source. > > To add insult to injury all of the time we are working on artwork Fedora > launches "echo" in RC1 although the decision on artwork is pending and > many would agree the "echo" project is incomplete and not tested. > > It sounds to me there are personal agendas playing out and those agendas > have nothing to do with open source and the community of fedora. > > At this point the only thing left to do is make up excuses and assign > blame. > > Pity, > > John >From the user's point of view, this is good news. It's a simple fact that computer geeks are rarely competent when it comes to graphics design and artwork. The horrible look of "community" distros like "Debian" is the living proof for this observation whereas "OpenSUSE" or "Fedora" are an order of magnitude ahead [ok, your designs are not that bad but still fairly amateurish]. Some polish by a graphics professional was really needed, and I am glad to hear that Diana whose work has always been extremely well done is going to give a final touch to the artwork for "F7". Since it will be apparently based on your "Flying high" theme you should be rather pleased about this development, shouldn't you? An overhaul of your submissions should not be considered personally offending. Personally, I would have gone for "Borealis" but somehow a decision had to be made .. And regarding the "Echo" icon theme, I do not see any interference with the the remaining artwork. They are rather independent from each other. -- Der GMX SmartSurfer hilft bis zu 70% Ihrer Onlinekosten zu sparen! Ideal f?r Modem und ISDN: http://www.gmx.net/de/go/smartsurfer From ben.arnold.inbox at gmail.com Wed Feb 14 09:33:24 2007 From: ben.arnold.inbox at gmail.com (Ben Arnold) Date: Wed, 14 Feb 2007 09:33:24 +0000 Subject: A sad day for Fedora, A disappointment for Open Source In-Reply-To: <9c3bfa1d0702140132u76f5d2baqd09b69b4f178cc4d@mail.gmail.com> References: <20070213170005.15DA773321@hormel.redhat.com> <1171413542.3449.37.camel@localhost.localdomain> <20070214091049.30040@gmx.net> <9c3bfa1d0702140132u76f5d2baqd09b69b4f178cc4d@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <9c3bfa1d0702140133g7db7c38ao64eade99d00d657b@mail.gmail.com> On 14/02/07, John Baer wrote: > If Fedora did not want our help simply state it, close down the list > server, call it good. Diana certainly has the skill and talent to do the > artwork and obviously doesn't need our help. > > Letting this sham go on for months while folks invest their time and > honest effort is completely contrary to the spirit of open source. I think that shutting down the list is a little OTT but I see what your problem is and I share it; it seems it's a case of thanks-and-bye with FC7. This didn't happen last time round IIRC, Mola's 3D rendering was certainly helped toward the end with professional efforts but that was after a lot of commnity development. On 14/02/07, Joachim Frieben wrote: > Some polish by a graphics professional was really needed, and I am glad to hear that Diana whose work has always been extremely well done is going to give a final touch to the artwork for "F7". > [...] somehow a decision had to be made .. This is what I'm slightly disappointed with more; the decision should really be made by the community who make it from the remaining leading choices. I feel that if any more work needed to be done, it should at least be done with comms with this list. From the way it's coming across, there will be nothing until release day when we shall find out for ourselves. That's my tuppence, anyways. > And regarding the "Echo" icon theme, I do not see any interference with the the remaining artwork. They are rather independent from each other. True; as I've said before, the Echo stuff is much more long term. There's still issues other than simply final artwork that need to be sorted, such as KDE support etc. -- ..// seawolf //.. Ben Arnold e-mail / msn / icq / yahoo iamseawolf (at) gmail (dot) com http://clik.to/seawolfsanctuary fedora core : artwork GnuPG Available - ask me! From nicu_fedora at nicubunu.ro Wed Feb 14 09:49:48 2007 From: nicu_fedora at nicubunu.ro (Nicu Buculei) Date: Wed, 14 Feb 2007 11:49:48 +0200 Subject: A sad day for Fedora, A disappointment for Open Source In-Reply-To: <20070214091049.30040@gmx.net> References: <20070213170005.15DA773321@hormel.redhat.com> <1171413542.3449.37.camel@localhost.localdomain> <20070214091049.30040@gmx.net> Message-ID: <45D2DB3C.6020606@nicubunu.ro> Joachim Frieben wrote: > >From the user's point of view, this is good news. It's a simple fact that computer geeks are rarely competent when it comes to graphics design and artwork. The horrible look of "community" distros like "Debian" is the living proof for this observation whereas "OpenSUSE" or "Fedora" are an order of magnitude ahead [ok, your designs are not that bad but still fairly amateurish]. Fedora is claimed also to be a "community" project. If it is not, then we should just declare this mailing list and the Art project closed and stop using them.And just sit back and each 6 months when a new version is released act as fanboys and worship the great powers that brought us the graphics (you know, just like in the Windows or Mac world). > Since it will be apparently based on your "Flying high" theme you should be rather pleased about this development, shouldn't you? An overhaul of your submissions should not be considered personally offending. I think John is upset because he was left to work and work on his own design and nobody told him this is useless, even if people had known for weeks how things are going. It seems the other people who proposed themes just felt the direction of the wind and lowered the priority of Fedora Art on their work queue. I avoided to talk about this as I don't want to be categorized as a FUD spreader and flamewar igniter. > And regarding the "Echo" icon theme, I do not see any interference with the the remaining artwork. They are rather independent from each other. The link between the desktop theme and the icon theme is indeed very loose: an icon theme is a huge work for one single full-time developer, so without help from the larger community the job may get never done. And with an alienated community this help can be lost. -- nicu Cool Fedora wallpapers: http://fedora.nicubunu.ro/wallpapers/ Open Clip Art Library: http://www.openclipart.org my Fedora stuff: http://fedora.nicubunu.ro From nicu_fedora at nicubunu.ro Wed Feb 14 10:01:53 2007 From: nicu_fedora at nicubunu.ro (Nicu Buculei) Date: Wed, 14 Feb 2007 12:01:53 +0200 Subject: A sad day for Fedora, A disappointment for Open Source In-Reply-To: <1171413542.3449.37.camel@localhost.localdomain> References: <20070213170005.15DA773321@hormel.redhat.com> <1171413542.3449.37.camel@localhost.localdomain> Message-ID: <45D2DE11.6040404@nicubunu.ro> John Baer wrote: > > This is truly a sad day for Fedora and a disappointment for the > community of Open Source. > > If Fedora did not want our help simply state it, close down the list > server, call it good. Diana certainly has the skill and talent to do the > artwork and obviously doesn't need our help. > > Letting this sham go on for months while folks invest their time and > honest effort is completely contrary to the spirit of open source. Don't you find this similar with the Ubuntu story? http://linux.slashdot.org/article.pl?sid=06/11/14/2241255 -- nicu Cool Fedora wallpapers: http://fedora.nicubunu.ro/wallpapers/ Open Clip Art Library: http://www.openclipart.org my Fedora stuff: http://fedora.nicubunu.ro From luya_tfz at thefinalzone.com Wed Feb 14 10:03:29 2007 From: luya_tfz at thefinalzone.com (Luya Tshimbalanga) Date: Wed, 14 Feb 2007 05:03:29 -0500 Subject: A sad day for Fedora, A disappointment for Open Source In-Reply-To: <1171413542.3449.37.camel@localhost.localdomain> References: <20070213170005.15DA773321@hormel.redhat.com> <1171413542.3449.37.camel@localhost.localdomain> Message-ID: <1171447409.45d2de716ab18@ssl.mecca.ca> Instead of being disappointed, take a look to http://www.isity.net/blog/?p=60 Be glad your theme has been selected for the design. -- Luya Tshimbalanga Fedora Project contributor http://www.fedoraproject.org/wiki/LuyaTshimbalanga From uno at webworks.se Wed Feb 14 11:08:01 2007 From: uno at webworks.se (Uno Engborg) Date: Wed, 14 Feb 2007 12:08:01 +0100 Subject: A sad day for Fedora, A disappointment for Open Source In-Reply-To: <1171447409.45d2de716ab18@ssl.mecca.ca> References: <20070213170005.15DA773321@hormel.redhat.com> <1171413542.3449.37.camel@localhost.localdomain> <1171447409.45d2de716ab18@ssl.mecca.ca> Message-ID: <45D2ED91.1080501@webworks.se> Luya Tshimbalanga wrote: >Instead of being disappointed, take a look to >http://www.isity.net/blog/?p=60 > >Be glad your theme has been selected for the design. > > > > John has every reason to be glad that his theme was selected, but that is not the same thing as he should be glad that he did a lot of unecessary work. This sends the wrong signalst to people that are prepared to help in the future, if any. The process for how, the themes was supposed to be developed should have been clear from start. That way everybody could have been happy. It would have been so simple to fix this. Instead of posting to the www.isity.net Diana could have posted her progress here or on the fedora art wiki. Regards Uno Engborg From nicu_fedora at nicubunu.ro Wed Feb 14 11:43:16 2007 From: nicu_fedora at nicubunu.ro (Nicu Buculei) Date: Wed, 14 Feb 2007 13:43:16 +0200 Subject: A sad day for Fedora, A disappointment for Open Source In-Reply-To: <45D2ED91.1080501@webworks.se> References: <20070213170005.15DA773321@hormel.redhat.com> <1171413542.3449.37.camel@localhost.localdomain> <1171447409.45d2de716ab18@ssl.mecca.ca> <45D2ED91.1080501@webworks.se> Message-ID: <45D2F5D4.2030207@nicubunu.ro> Uno Engborg wrote: > > The process for how, the themes was supposed to be developed > should have been clear from start. That way everybody could > have been happy. > > It would have been so simple to fix this. Instead of posting to the > www.isity.net Diana could have posted her progress here or on the > fedora art wiki. Posting on the blog is also important, it is marketing for the project (and marketing for the blog poster herself). But it should not *replace* communication on the mailing list, otherwise the rest of the members of the list feel themselves left in the dust. -- nicu Cool Fedora wallpapers: http://fedora.nicubunu.ro/wallpapers/ Open Clip Art Library: http://www.openclipart.org my Fedora stuff: http://fedora.nicubunu.ro From thomas.canniot at laposte.net Wed Feb 14 14:10:16 2007 From: thomas.canniot at laposte.net (Thomas Canniot) Date: Wed, 14 Feb 2007 15:10:16 +0100 Subject: A sad day for Fedora, A disappointment for Open Source In-Reply-To: <45D2DB3C.6020606@nicubunu.ro> References: <20070213170005.15DA773321@hormel.redhat.com> <1171413542.3449.37.camel@localhost.localdomain> <20070214091049.30040@gmx.net> <45D2DB3C.6020606@nicubunu.ro> Message-ID: <1171462216.3813.26.camel@localhost.localdomain> Le mercredi 14 f?vrier 2007 ? 11:49 +0200, Nicu Buculei a ?crit : > > I think John is upset because he was left to work and work on his own > design and nobody told him this is useless, even if people had known for > weeks how things are going. > I am not very familiar with this list, but I did not imagine any second that John's work would be published in the final distro. I don't really know how to say this (I really DONT want to be offensive or criticise his work) : his theme is great, FULL of many ideas and many ideas for many different themes. He has a great talent, I don't have such and I am really anvious not to be able to do the same. But his work does not look as professional as what professional designers / artists, like Mairin and Diana, can do. -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: signature.asc Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 189 bytes Desc: Ceci est une partie de message num?riquement sign?e URL: From jfrieben at gmx.de Wed Feb 14 14:53:56 2007 From: jfrieben at gmx.de (Joachim Frieben) Date: Wed, 14 Feb 2007 15:53:56 +0100 Subject: A sad day for Fedora, A disappointment for Open Source In-Reply-To: <45D2DB3C.6020606@nicubunu.ro> References: <20070213170005.15DA773321@hormel.redhat.com> <1171413542.3449.37.camel@localhost.localdomain> <20070214091049.30040@gmx.net> <45D2DB3C.6020606@nicubunu.ro> Message-ID: <20070214145356.162210@gmx.net> > Fedora is claimed also to be a "community" project. If it is not, then > we should just declare this mailing list and the Art project closed and > stop using them.And just sit back and each 6 months when a new version > is released act as fanboys and worship the great powers that brought us > the graphics (you know, just like in the Windows or Mac world). Nevertheless, user interface and artwork have a crucial impact on perception and acceptance of the final product by the user community and interested parties. It is too important to leave it solely to a bunch of self proclaimed artists. And from the submissions that I have seen [mind you, I am perfectly entitled to express my personal point of view even -without- being an art contributor myself] I am rather sceptical wether the "Fedora" developer community itself can provide the expertise which is necessary to design an ergonomic and visually appealing user interface. I suppose many users care much less about exactly which kernel version they are running than if the user interface is nice and functional. "Fedora" is in the favourable situation of being backed by "Red Hat" which allows to help finalize the artwork by a graphics professional. And this is certainly not the least aspect which has made "Fedora" the success it actually is. > I think John is upset because he was left to work and work on his own > design and nobody told him this is useless, even if people had known for > weeks how things are going. Btw, we should he be upset when it was not even warranted that his submission would be retained at all? The number of postings to this list can hardly be considered a valid criterion which proposal to pick! -- "Feel free" - 5 GB Mailbox, 50 FreeSMS/Monat ... Jetzt GMX ProMail testen: www.gmx.net/de/go/mailfooter/promail-out From uno at webworks.se Wed Feb 14 15:09:03 2007 From: uno at webworks.se (Uno Engborg) Date: Wed, 14 Feb 2007 16:09:03 +0100 Subject: A sad day for Fedora, A disappointment for Open Source In-Reply-To: <20070214145356.162210@gmx.net> References: <20070213170005.15DA773321@hormel.redhat.com> <1171413542.3449.37.camel@localhost.localdomain> <20070214091049.30040@gmx.net> <45D2DB3C.6020606@nicubunu.ro> <20070214145356.162210@gmx.net> Message-ID: <45D3260F.20600@webworks.se> Joachim Frieben skrev: >> Fedora is claimed also to be a "community" project. If it is not, then >> we should just declare this mailing list and the Art project closed and >> stop using them.And just sit back and each 6 months when a new version >> is released act as fanboys and worship the great powers that brought us >> the graphics (you know, just like in the Windows or Mac world). >> > > Nevertheless, user interface and artwork have a crucial impact on perception and acceptance of the final product by the user community and interested parties. It is too important to leave it solely to a bunch of self proclaimed artists. And from the submissions that I have seen [mind you, I am perfectly entitled to express my personal point of view even -without- being an art contributor myself] I am rather sceptical wether the "Fedora" developer community itself can provide the expertise which is necessary to design an ergonomic and visually appealing user interface. > I suppose many users care much less about exactly which kernel version they are running than if the user interface is nice and functional. > "Fedora" is in the favourable situation of being backed by "Red Hat" which allows to help finalize the artwork by a graphics professional. And this is certainly not the least aspect which has made "Fedora" the success it actually is. > Actually, the question is if the final look should be decided by artists, that is probably better left to usability and marketing people. To get the most out of the artists it is important that there is an ongoing discussion among all parties involved from day one. > > >> I think John is upset because he was left to work and work on his own >> design and nobody told him this is useless, even if people had known for >> weeks how things are going. >> > > Btw, we should he be upset when it was not even warranted that his submission would be retained at all? The number of postings to this list can hardly be considered a valid criterion which proposal to pick! > If more professional artists and usability people had contributed to this list, I'm sure there would have been more posts. Regards Uno Engborg -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: smime.p7s Type: application/x-pkcs7-signature Size: 3271 bytes Desc: S/MIME Cryptographic Signature URL: From baerjj at gmail.com Wed Feb 14 15:12:35 2007 From: baerjj at gmail.com (John Baer) Date: Wed, 14 Feb 2007 10:12:35 -0500 Subject: A sad day for Fedora, A disappointment for Open Source Message-ID: <484ace5d0702140712o483b612ep54ccb1bd0ef96489@mail.gmail.com> Uno wrote: > > > Unfortunately I don't agree with you. Diana seam to be a fine artist, > you are right in that. The problem is, that it takes more than being a > fine artist to make a good desktop theme. In fact being a fine artist > may even be a problem as most good art is about making a statement, > while creating a desktop theme is more like making visual elevator music. > It should be there, it should look reasonably good but not draw too > much attention or create any major mood swings of the observer, it > should help the user find the way in the system. I am in agreement Diana is an excellent artist, as is Mo, and others but the breakdown here is the process. Open Source is a community, a team, a gathering of folks with a common desire. In FC6 the deadlines came quick and in all honesty there was really no other choice but to turn it all over to Diana and Mola and cross our fingers. To their credit it worked out, but that is not the Open Source process. > The balance between > being dull and very good is very delicate. > In addition to the above comment it is important to note "quality" of the artwork does not equal acceptance. IMO acceptance comes when the message of the image is received and it's intent is understood. I worry when to the word "polish" becomes the yardstick of acceptance as I don't know how to qualify it. We discussed months earlier how wonderful it would be to create FC7 artwork using open source products to show case of how well they work. Is the "polish" achieved from the hand of a professional artist using Adobe or Bryce more important than this? To our credit this go-around we started early and there was lots of dialog and "inclusion" (an open source value). We had buy-in from the team but it's doesn't look like we had buy-in from fedora. :( My frustration is here we are again. RC1 is behind us and all we have is a list of suggestions for Fedora to develop (no Diana wiki page, no forum posts, nothing). Other than the images on Diana's personal blog, I don't have a clue what the vision of the default product is and RC2 is coming the 27th. In my previous posts I did not intend to sound sour on "echo". I like "echo". On my rc1 wiki page you will notice all of the icons I could change have been changed to "echo". My suggestion was going to be FC7 artwork should use "echo" even if the icons don't make FC7. I am in agreement "echo" needs to work as well for KDE as it does for GDM. Finally, based on the info of the theme wiki page we are technically at round 3 and the team has completed its effort and again I say to those who contributed with art and/or comments "job well done". John -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From martin.sourada at seznam.cz Wed Feb 14 14:23:48 2007 From: martin.sourada at seznam.cz (Martin Sourada) Date: Wed, 14 Feb 2007 15:23:48 +0100 Subject: go-home echo icon concept In-Reply-To: <45CC4DD5.1090905@seznam.cz> References: <45CC4DD5.1090905@seznam.cz> Message-ID: <45D31B74.9020801@seznam.cz> Hi again, I made the icons for 16x16, 24x24 and 48x48 sizes and tried to follow echo guidlines. I attach all. What do you think? Martin Sourada wrote: > Hi, > > I am new to this list. I am the person who is making the echo theme > for firefox2. So I made a concept of go-home icon, which is currently > missing. I based it on the tango go-home icon and used echo colors. > What do you think of it? What needs to be done? > png 24x24: src="http://feannatar.hostuju.cz/fedora/files/echo/go-home.png" /> > svg: http://feannatar.hostuju.cz/fedora/files/echo/go-home.svg > > _______________________________________________ > Fedora-art-list mailing list > Fedora-art-list at redhat.com > http://www.redhat.com/mailman/listinfo/fedora-art-list > -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: go-home16x16.png Type: image/png Size: 744 bytes Desc: not available URL: -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: go-home16x16.svg Type: image/svg+xml Size: 53026 bytes Desc: not available URL: -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: go-home24x24.png Type: image/png Size: 1283 bytes Desc: not available URL: -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: go-home24x24.svg Type: image/svg+xml Size: 31825 bytes Desc: not available URL: -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: go-homeL.png Type: image/png Size: 2986 bytes Desc: not available URL: -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: go-homeL.svg Type: image/svg+xml Size: 30493 bytes Desc: not available URL: From luya_tfz at thefinalzone.com Thu Feb 15 06:27:41 2007 From: luya_tfz at thefinalzone.com (Luya Tshimbalanga) Date: Thu, 15 Feb 2007 01:27:41 -0500 Subject: go-home echo icon concept In-Reply-To: <45D31B74.9020801@seznam.cz> References: <45CC4DD5.1090905@seznam.cz> <45D31B74.9020801@seznam.cz> Message-ID: <1171520861.45d3fd5d739bc@ssl.mecca.ca> Quoting Martin Sourada : > Hi again, > > I made the icons for 16x16, 24x24 and 48x48 sizes and tried to follow > echo guidlines. I attach all. What do you think? > This go-home icon looks odd because it looks out of place in echo world. It will on kids theme IMHO. I suggest to take a look on user-home icon from echo so you can get some ideas. -- Luya Tshimbalanga Fedora Project contributor http://www.fedoraproject.org/wiki/LuyaTshimbalanga From martin.sourada at seznam.cz Thu Feb 15 13:11:52 2007 From: martin.sourada at seznam.cz (Martin Sourada) Date: Thu, 15 Feb 2007 14:11:52 +0100 Subject: go-home echo icon concept In-Reply-To: <1171520861.45d3fd5d739bc@ssl.mecca.ca> References: <45CC4DD5.1090905@seznam.cz> <45D31B74.9020801@seznam.cz> <1171520861.45d3fd5d739bc@ssl.mecca.ca> Message-ID: <45D45C18.20201@seznam.cz> Thanks for your critics and suggestion. I take a look at it, as you sugested, and two or three ideas came to my mind - and result are four slightly different icons. First idea is to take the house part of the user-home icon alone and change its perspective, second is to take both the folder and house and change its perspective and third idea is to add an arrow to it to signalize action. I attach pngs only, but if you want I can also supply svgs. And there are no shadows yet. Luya Tshimbalanga wrote: > Quoting Martin Sourada : > > >> Hi again, >> >> I made the icons for 16x16, 24x24 and 48x48 sizes and tried to follow >> echo guidlines. I attach all. What do you think? >> >> > > This go-home icon looks odd because it looks out of place in echo world. It will > on kids theme IMHO. > I suggest to take a look on user-home icon from echo so you can get some ideas. > > -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: go-home-folder.png Type: image/png Size: 3045 bytes Desc: not available URL: -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: go-home-folder-arrow.png Type: image/png Size: 3384 bytes Desc: not available URL: -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: go-home-house.png Type: image/png Size: 2076 bytes Desc: not available URL: -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: go-home-house-arrow.png Type: image/png Size: 2699 bytes Desc: not available URL: From sundaram at fedoraproject.org Thu Feb 15 13:31:36 2007 From: sundaram at fedoraproject.org (Rahul Sundaram) Date: Thu, 15 Feb 2007 19:01:36 +0530 Subject: Artwork conversations Message-ID: <45D460B8.5090704@fedoraproject.org> Hi, Apologies for the long post but this touches a broader topic. So be patient and you will reach the see the light or at the end of my email. Are we ready? Good. I had a opportunity to talk to Diana Fong during FUDCon Boston 2007 after she came up to talk to me about my perspectives and what I was trying to accomplish with the mail I send a few weeks back[1]. On hindsight that was probably not clear to everyone involved and might have been high sounding. So a longer clarification and some views points here. The conversation we had went on for over an hour about Fedora Artwork project in general and specifically about getting a larger number of contributors involved from the community, the process and the quality that we need to maintain. Diana Fong was worried about the quality of the artwork being produced but didnt work to throw off people from doing the work. I was highlighting that the conversations usually is happening on IRC or blogs which the people here in mailing lists are either not aware of or not participation due to differences in time zones and the process as being important as much as the quality of the work being produced. I suggested that if we cant really collaborate on every step, she can at the moment be transparent about her working methodology and thoughts would be a good first step. I think her recent series of blogs "The Voodoo That I Do" [2] is effective in that and should be appreciated. Not everyone knows equally well to work in the community. Unlike say packaging where the line of quality vs community participation is tilter in favor of the latter, I believe in artwork it should be the former that is given a higher priority. We should not sacrifice the good results and throw off skilled contributions just because they or we havent yet been able to communicate well with the community. Having said that, here is more details to consider. When the original effort to have a focus on better look and feel was done by Diana Fong for Fedora Core 5, it was entirely a single person's effort. Folks started noticing especially since the artwork happened to be rather in the face compared to the traditional and conservative artwork which we had in the past. I thought that went pretty good overall even though obviously not everyone liked the artwork. It was controversial enough to be talked about inside and external to the Fedora community. Reviews invariably pointed it out in a positive manner. It was also a nod to the idea that Fedora is approachable to everyone and not just the enthusiasts. Fedora Core 6 artwork turned out to be even better with the concepts drawn by Maureen Duffy, the 3D blender work done Mola and the final polishing from Diana Fong. We managed to work as a team, incorporate feedback from various circles such as the artwork being too dark initially etc. Other than the long term discussions about the trademark protection required in the logo vs the need for creativity, I think there is agreement that the quality of the artwork in general has been good to exceptional. What was not defined and to some extend still causing confusion [3] is the process. We had to rush through kind of in the last minute with Fedora Core 6 and here we are now worrying whether we can do artwork effectively as a community today. I would say that is pretty difficult and we would have to learn by trial and error a few things and I have some ideas that could help here. 1) Expect to jump through hurdles : This shouldnt need much explanation but pretty much everytime we have initiated new projects, there has been periods of confusion and general mess before we started being effective. It is pretty much a established trend that I would be surprised we had it all figured out right from the start anywhere. It happened with with Fedora in general. Fedora Extras, Fedora Documentation and now with Fedora Ambassadors and Artwork projects but artwork is rather unique on its own for a number of reasons. It is very subjective, people tend to take criticisms rather personally. We are reluctant to tell people that their artwork is crappy because we dont want to give off the impression that we arent appreciating their interest or contributions in general and more important we dont have a established history of caring about good look and feel and creating artwork via the community in general. Every time we had good artwork anywhere in the Free software world, it has been done through single individuals or by a small focused team. Tiger in GNOME. Crystal SVG icons in KDE or closer to home Fedora Artwork in previous releases. The other end happens to be troublesome [4]. Some would argue that this is indeed true of Free software development in general but I wont go into that now. In general, we will figure out the process and if we can make it work over time. We might realise sometime later that this just isnt working and shut it down but I consider that pretty premature to conclude at this point. * Tackle work in discrete chunks : For example, creating one particular icon for the Echo theme is much more easier than working on a creating a entire desktop theme. We know the theme is incomplete. We put in as the default sometime back to receive feedback and more importantly contributions. So instead of endless talking about what holes we see, try and fix them. * Work as a team : Expect to receive criticism, others to take your work and come up with variations or polish it better etc. Mola's blender work in Fedora Core 6 and John Baer's concept work in Fedora 7 are good examples of this. If you look at the feedback from the concept work by John Baer vs the recent work from Diana Fong, I think it would evident that the community here is strong is the conceptual stage and others like Mo, Diana Fong good at final execution and polishing. Our expectations can be caliberated at that level. We might grow a stronger community or people can learn the skills from the more experienced folks. This is where [2] is useful too. Nobody knows all the pieces of the puzzle. We are bound to have intermediate failures. Give it time. Rahul [1]https://www.redhat.com/archives/fedora-art-list/2007-January/msg00127.html [2]http://www.isity.net/blog/ [3]https://www.redhat.com/archives/fedora-art-list/2007-February/msg00087.html [4]http://linux.slashdot.org/article.pl?sid=06/11/14/2241255 From uno at webworks.se Thu Feb 15 13:58:02 2007 From: uno at webworks.se (Uno Engborg) Date: Thu, 15 Feb 2007 14:58:02 +0100 Subject: go-home echo icon concept In-Reply-To: <45D45C18.20201@seznam.cz> References: <45CC4DD5.1090905@seznam.cz> <45D31B74.9020801@seznam.cz> <1171520861.45d3fd5d739bc@ssl.mecca.ca> <45D45C18.20201@seznam.cz> Message-ID: <45D466EA.9090303@webworks.se> Martin Sourada skrev: > Thanks for your critics and suggestion. I take a look at it, as you > sugested, and two or three ideas came to my mind - and result are four > slightly different icons. First idea is to take the house part of the > user-home icon alone and change its perspective, second is to take > both the folder and house and change its perspective and third idea is > to add an arrow to it to signalize action. I attach pngs only, but if > you want I can also supply svgs. And there are no shadows yet. > > Luya Tshimbalanga wrote: >> Quoting Martin Sourada : >> >> >>> Hi again, >>> >>> I made the icons for 16x16, 24x24 and 48x48 sizes and tried to follow >>> echo guidlines. I attach all. What do you think? >>> >>> >> >> This go-home icon looks odd because it looks out of place in echo >> world. It will >> on kids theme IMHO. >> I suggest to take a look on user-home icon from echo so you can get >> some ideas. >> >> > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------ > > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------ > > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------ > > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------ > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------ > > _______________________________________________ > Fedora-art-list mailing list > Fedora-art-list at redhat.com > http://www.redhat.com/mailman/listinfo/fedora-art-list > I'm not quite sure if I have gotten this right. Are all the above icons supposed to mean the same thing? If so I would go for the house silhouette alone, without a folder. It takes much more brain processing power to recognize a house on a folder than just a plain house shape. Shapes are among the things we recognize very quickly. The house icon is the icon that has the most uniqueness in shape of the ones that you suggested. Another thing, the arrow somehow indicates a directional move, i.e. go back to home or go forward to home. Does this really make sense in the application? I would think that the direction from where you get to home is irrellevant in most cases. so we should not invite the user to think in terms of back and forward. So I suggest you leave out the arrow or make it point to the house in e.g. 45 degree angle. That way you could indicate move without involving allready taken concepts like "back", "forward", "up", "down" that is used elsewhere. Leaving out the arrow is probably the best option as it makes the icon less complicated, so the plain blue house is the best alternative in my oppinion. Regards Uno Engborg -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: smime.p7s Type: application/x-pkcs7-signature Size: 3271 bytes Desc: S/MIME Cryptographic Signature URL: From martin.sourada at seznam.cz Thu Feb 15 14:27:32 2007 From: martin.sourada at seznam.cz (Martin Sourada) Date: Thu, 15 Feb 2007 15:27:32 +0100 Subject: go-home echo icon concept In-Reply-To: <45D466EA.9090303@webworks.se> References: <45CC4DD5.1090905@seznam.cz> <45D31B74.9020801@seznam.cz> <1171520861.45d3fd5d739bc@ssl.mecca.ca> <45D45C18.20201@seznam.cz> <45D466EA.9090303@webworks.se> Message-ID: <45D46DD4.3050000@seznam.cz> Uno Engborg wrote: > I'm not quite sure if I have gotten this right. Are all the above > icons supposed to mean the same thing? Yes, you got it right, all the four icons are supposed to mean the same thing. > If so I would go for the house silhouette alone, without a folder. It > takes much more brain processing power to recognize a house on a > folder than just a plain house shape. Shapes > are among the things we recognize very quickly. The house icon is the > icon that has the most uniqueness in shape of the ones that you > suggested. My personal opinion is that the ones with the folder looks better, but I must also agree with you, that the ones without the folder are easier recognized. Maybe the one with the folder could be used for large size and the one without the folder for small size? > Another thing, the arrow somehow indicates a directional move, i.e. go > back to home or go forward to home. Does this really make sense in the > application? I would think that the direction from where you get to > home is irrellevant in most cases. so we should not invite the user to > think > in terms of back and forward. So I suggest you leave out the arrow or > make it point to the house in e.g. 45 degree angle. That way you could > indicate move without involving allready taken concepts like "back", > "forward", "up", "down" that is used elsewhere. Leaving out the arrow > is probably the best option as it makes the icon less complicated, so > the plain blue house is the best alternative in my oppinion. Hmm... I didn't reailze that. Just placed the arrow where it fitted best and pointed it to doors (likewise it is done in application-exit icon from Mola). Anyway, it was just an idea, it can be left out if it does not fit well with it. Thanks for your comments :-) Regards, Martin Sourada From mclasen at redhat.com Thu Feb 15 17:05:44 2007 From: mclasen at redhat.com (Matthias Clasen) Date: Thu, 15 Feb 2007 12:05:44 -0500 Subject: Echo emblems Message-ID: <1171559145.3425.3.camel@localhost.localdomain> Just thought I should point out that emblems are the only icons in an icon theme which are guaranteed to be shown with their display names in the ui (in the nautilus properties dialog) - thus it is a good idea to add a .icon file for each emblem containing a suitable display name. Of course, we want translations too, then. This problem is not new, btw, Bluecurve has it too. From martin.sourada at seznam.cz Thu Feb 15 18:34:04 2007 From: martin.sourada at seznam.cz (Martin Sourada) Date: Thu, 15 Feb 2007 19:34:04 +0100 Subject: Inconsistency in using + (plus) or * (star) emblems in echo icons? Message-ID: <45D4A79C.9020508@seznam.cz> I think there is some inconsistency in using pluses and stars in echo icons, or at least I don't understand the philosophy behind. Here are listed currently problematic icons: with plus: address-book-new appointment-new contact-new mail-message-new with blue star: document-new mail-mark-unread window-new with yellow star: appointment-soon I would suggest to change the emblem in document-new and window-new to plus and leave star only for mail-mark-unread and appointment-soon. And a yellow star is IMHO better than a blue one so I would change its color in mail-mark-unread to yellow (as in appointment-soon). It would make the icon more distinguishable from mail-message-new which is the same only with plus instead of star. Maybe some rule about using pluses and stars in icons should be made? Like that plus is used for action icons symbolising creating somethink new by user (you create it by clicking on a button with such icon; usually ends with "-new") and star in cases like marking unread message - something that already is new or nearly has its time like in appointment-soon, more generaly it symbolizes state of being (even if after action) rather than the action of making it so. Regards, Martin Sourada From luya_tfz at thefinalzone.com Thu Feb 15 18:51:12 2007 From: luya_tfz at thefinalzone.com (Luya Tshimbalanga) Date: Thu, 15 Feb 2007 10:51:12 -0800 Subject: Inconsistency in using + (plus) or * (star) emblems in echo icons? In-Reply-To: <45D4A79C.9020508@seznam.cz> References: <45D4A79C.9020508@seznam.cz> Message-ID: <45D4ABA0.6020508@thefinalzone.com> Martin Sourada wrote: > with plus: > address-book-new > appointment-new > contact-new > mail-message-new Plus means add something. > > with blue star: > document-new > mail-mark-unread > window-new > Blue star means create a new item/object. > with yellow star: > appointment-soon Yellow star means planning a future plan. -- ??D0 References: <45D4A79C.9020508@seznam.cz> <45D4ABA0.6020508@thefinalzone.com> Message-ID: <45D4AEFF.20905@seznam.cz> Thanks for clarification. But then I think mail-mark-unread does not fall to any of the groups. Also I tend to think that the difference between creating new document and creating new mail message is very subtle, but I am quite sattisfied with this division. I think it would be good to mention this divison in Echo Icon Guidelines, since some icons which could use it, like panel-new (though not listed in Echo development wiki), still awaits creating and we could thus prevent future confusion. Luya Tshimbalanga wrote: > Plus means add something. > > Blue star means create a new item/object. > > Yellow star means planning a future plan. > From dfong at redhat.com Thu Feb 15 19:09:52 2007 From: dfong at redhat.com (Diana Fong) Date: Thu, 15 Feb 2007 14:09:52 -0500 Subject: Inconsistency in using + (plus) or * (star) emblems in echo icons? In-Reply-To: <45D4A79C.9020508@seznam.cz> References: <45D4A79C.9020508@seznam.cz> Message-ID: <45D4B000.1050704@redhat.com> Martin Sourada wrote: > I think there is some inconsistency in using pluses and stars in echo > icons, or at least I don't understand the philosophy behind. Here are > listed currently problematic icons: > > with plus: > address-book-new > appointment-new > contact-new > mail-message-new > > with blue star: > document-new > mail-mark-unread > window-new > > with yellow star: > appointment-soon > > I would suggest to change the emblem in document-new and window-new to > plus and leave star only for mail-mark-unread and appointment-soon. > And a yellow star is IMHO better than a blue one so I would change its > color in mail-mark-unread to yellow (as in appointment-soon). It would > make the icon more distinguishable from mail-message-new which is the > same only with plus instead of star. Maybe some rule about using > pluses and stars in icons should be made? Like that plus is used for > action icons symbolising creating somethink new by user (you create it > by clicking on a button with such icon; usually ends with "-new") and > star in cases like marking unread message - something that already is > new or nearly has its time like in appointment-soon, more generaly it > symbolizes state of being (even if after action) rather than the > action of making it so. > > Regards, > Martin Sourada A little bit of history...I had originally started out with the stars in keeping with Tango's scheme but then found the pluses to be more informative in representing the creation of new items or actions. The different colored stars were just more exploration. However, the icon set is at a point to make such distinction and decisions, and what you've (Martin) listed makes sense. Let's proceed as you have suggested. Actions required from this decision include... 1. modify existing icons to fit this rule 2. update the echo guidelines wiki (Martin's proposed rules and explanations are good, perhaps also include an icon example or two as illustration). Diana Fong --- Red Hat Visual Designer | Desktop Group From dfong at redhat.com Thu Feb 15 20:44:00 2007 From: dfong at redhat.com (Diana Fong) Date: Thu, 15 Feb 2007 15:44:00 -0500 Subject: Inconsistency in using + (plus) or * (star) emblems in echo icons? In-Reply-To: <45D4AEFF.20905@seznam.cz> References: <45D4A79C.9020508@seznam.cz> <45D4ABA0.6020508@thefinalzone.com> <45D4AEFF.20905@seznam.cz> Message-ID: <45D4C610.6060800@redhat.com> Martin Sourada wrote: > Thanks for clarification. But then I think mail-mark-unread does not > fall to any of the groups. Also I tend to think that the difference > between creating new document and creating new mail message is very > subtle, but I am quite sattisfied with this division. I think it would > be good to mention this divison in Echo Icon Guidelines, since some > icons which could use it, like panel-new (though not listed in Echo > development wiki), still awaits creating and we could thus prevent > future confusion. > > Luya Tshimbalanga wrote: >> Plus means add something. >> Blue star means create a new item/object. >> Yellow star means planning a future plan. >> Ah, I had sent the previous email just prior to receiving these in my inbox. I really like the simplicity and clarity of having just two types of emblems (+ and *) as described by Martin. His re-categorization of the icons also work well within the rules stated. I'd like for us to adopt this and post it as part of the guidelines. Luya just signed on to #fedora-art and is also in support of this, with the additional vote of "a yellow star instead of blue is better usability side." Martin et al, are you ok with this? Do you have access to updating the guidelines wiki? Diana Fong --- Red Hat Visual Designer | Desktop Group From martin.sourada at seznam.cz Thu Feb 15 20:58:54 2007 From: martin.sourada at seznam.cz (Martin Sourada) Date: Thu, 15 Feb 2007 21:58:54 +0100 Subject: Inconsistency in using + (plus) or * (star) emblems in echo icons? In-Reply-To: <45D4C610.6060800@redhat.com> References: <45D4A79C.9020508@seznam.cz> <45D4ABA0.6020508@thefinalzone.com> <45D4AEFF.20905@seznam.cz> <45D4C610.6060800@redhat.com> Message-ID: <45D4C98E.7080307@seznam.cz> Yes, I am ok with this. I don't have write access to the guidlines wiki, so if one with access to it edit it I would be glad :) Diana Fong wrote: > Martin Sourada wrote: >> Thanks for clarification. But then I think mail-mark-unread does not >> fall to any of the groups. Also I tend to think that the difference >> between creating new document and creating new mail message is very >> subtle, but I am quite sattisfied with this division. I think it >> would be good to mention this divison in Echo Icon Guidelines, since >> some icons which could use it, like panel-new (though not listed in >> Echo development wiki), still awaits creating and we could thus >> prevent future confusion. >> >> Luya Tshimbalanga wrote: >>> Plus means add something. >>> Blue star means create a new item/object. >>> Yellow star means planning a future plan. >>> > > Ah, I had sent the previous email just prior to receiving these in my > inbox. > > I really like the simplicity and clarity of having just two types of > emblems (+ and *) as described by Martin. His re-categorization of > the icons also work well within the rules stated. I'd like for us to > adopt this and post it as part of the guidelines. > > Luya just signed on to #fedora-art and is also in support of this, > with the additional vote of "a yellow star instead of blue is better > usability side." > > Martin et al, are you ok with this? Do you have access to updating > the guidelines wiki? > > > Diana Fong > --- > Red Hat > Visual Designer | Desktop Group > > _______________________________________________ > Fedora-art-list mailing list > Fedora-art-list at redhat.com > http://www.redhat.com/mailman/listinfo/fedora-art-list > From dfong at redhat.com Thu Feb 15 22:45:43 2007 From: dfong at redhat.com (Diana Fong) Date: Thu, 15 Feb 2007 17:45:43 -0500 Subject: Inconsistency in using + (plus) or * (star) emblems in echo icons? In-Reply-To: <45D4C98E.7080307@seznam.cz> References: <45D4A79C.9020508@seznam.cz> <45D4ABA0.6020508@thefinalzone.com> <45D4AEFF.20905@seznam.cz> <45D4C610.6060800@redhat.com> <45D4C98E.7080307@seznam.cz> Message-ID: <45D4E297.6020101@redhat.com> Martin Sourada wrote: > Yes, I am ok with this. I don't have write access to the guidlines > wiki, so if one with access to it edit it I would be glad :) Ok, done. I categorized it under Emblems on the guidelines wiki. I also included .svgs for each...star and plus emblem. Diana Fong --- Red Hat Visual Designer | Desktop Group From baerjj at gmail.com Fri Feb 16 03:16:55 2007 From: baerjj at gmail.com (John Baer) Date: Thu, 15 Feb 2007 22:16:55 -0500 Subject: Artwork conversations Message-ID: <1171595815.3583.10.camel@localhost.localdomain> Rahul, Thank you for responding to this thread. I hope things went well at FUDCon Boston. > Apologies for the long post but this touches a broader topic. +1 Let me state the problem here is not Diana, the problem here is Fedora. There was never any question in my mind of Diana's skill but Diana is not the only person on the planet capable of producing polished Fedora art. IMO one very talented artist and contributor named M?ir?n Duffy was pushed to the side and there are others. If Fedora is going to be open source then Fedora needs to embrace open source. The fact Diana was crafting Fedora final artwork off line with no communication to the team is not open source. It has nothing to do with polish or talent and has everything to do with equality, integrity, inclusion, and teamwork. I read the slashdot article on Ubuntu and don't attempt to legitimize Fedora's mistakes with theirs. IMO Mark Shuttleworth does open source better than anyone and that is why Ubuntu is so popular, but on this issue he got it completely wrong. If Mark had the time and skill I believe he would craft the artwork of Ubuntu as the Ubuntu art team had some of the best talent available. Go to their wiki today and search on art. I only see one ?feisty? page. Go to launchpad and search on art or ?feisty?. Compare that with the effort of ?dapper?. These are not the foot steps Fedora wants to follow. > Nobody knows all the pieces of the puzzle. We are bound to have > intermediate failures. +1 Ok, so how do you make it work? > Work as a team : Expect to receive criticism, others to take your > work and come up with variations or polish it better +1 1. First and foremost Fedora has to decide to practice what it preaches. If Diana is not on our team and we are not on hers, this will never work. Use the tools of love, equality, integrity, inclusion, and teamwork to empower team members. I believe we are all mature enough to know our limits but that does not mean we can not contribute in a meaningful way. If the bar has to be high, define clearly what high means. 2. Everyone needs to be working with the same information. Although Diana's artwork guide was very helpful I noticed her artwork does not conform to the guide. I'm not saying her art won't work but plainly things changed and we were not kept in the loop. This is not a talent issue this is a "Fedora's commitment to the team" issue. 3. Publish a schedule which clearly defines what is due and when. The Ubuntu schedule (https://wiki.ubuntu.com/FeistyReleaseSchedule) notes the deadlines for artwork as well as upstream projects. IMO this can be vastly improved but it is way more than what we were given. At this moment I honestly do not know when artwork will make it into the mix. I'm guessing RC2 or RC3? Not only should Fedora be able to provide us with a release schedule for version 7, but a schedule for version 8. I realize things change but the process is the same. Finally Rahul here are the disappointments. 1. It is obvious the intent from the very beginning was to have Diana produce the final artwork. Why wasn't that stated plainly and clearly? Will that always be the case? What is the intent for ?echo?? What about artwork for the doc team? 2. I do not know what tools Diana uses to create her images but many professional artists use Adobe on Apple or similar product on Windows. I have had this discussion with Diana and agree it's not the end of the world if the images for Fedora come from one of these platforms, but wouldn't it be nice if Fedora made a statement with it's head held high and showed the world what can be done with open source software. The Team said yes, what does Fedora say? So there you have it Rahul. The problem has little to do with artwork and everything to do with process. John From sundaram at fedoraproject.org Fri Feb 16 04:06:09 2007 From: sundaram at fedoraproject.org (Rahul Sundaram) Date: Fri, 16 Feb 2007 09:36:09 +0530 Subject: Artwork conversations In-Reply-To: <1171595815.3583.10.camel@localhost.localdomain> References: <1171595815.3583.10.camel@localhost.localdomain> Message-ID: <45D52DB1.1030000@fedoraproject.org> John Baer wrote:. > > If Fedora is going to be open source then Fedora needs to embrace open > source. The fact Diana was crafting Fedora final artwork off line with > no communication to the team is not open source. It has nothing to do > with polish or talent and has everything to do with equality, integrity, > inclusion, and teamwork. Things definitely need to improve there. > > I read the slashdot article on Ubuntu and don't attempt to legitimize > Fedora's mistakes with theirs. IMO Mark Shuttleworth does open source > better than anyone and that is why Ubuntu is so popular, but on this > issue he got it completely wrong. If Mark had the time and skill I > believe he would craft the artwork of Ubuntu as the Ubuntu art team had > some of the best talent available. Go to their wiki today and search on > art. I only see one ?feisty? page. Go to launchpad and search on art or > ?feisty?. Compare that with the effort of ?dapper?. These are not the > foot steps Fedora wants to follow. I wouldnt calling installing proprietary drivers by default and building proprietary infrastructure as doing open source better than anyone else. Popularity has usually nothing in common with principles. The example was that there are similarities elsewhere in the Linux distribution world and such issues are not unique to Fedora. It is not a justification, otherwise everybody would be repeating the same mistakes but one of the moments where we need to take a step back and look at the big picture. > Ok, so how do you make it work? Being more explicit about the process and expectations would make it better. The less we have to assume and make guesses, the better it is. > Use the tools of love, equality, integrity, inclusion, and teamwork to > empower team members. I believe we are all mature enough to know our > limits but that does not mean we can not contribute in a meaningful way. > If the bar has to be high, define clearly what high means. I would doubt we can clearly define in black and white terms at what point we can draw that line but I understand your point neverthless. Ask questions. Get answers before you spend time on something. Over a few releases, we would have enough answers and understanding on how things work. > 2. Everyone needs to be working with the same information. Although > Diana's artwork guide was very helpful I noticed her artwork does not > conform to the guide. I'm not saying her art won't work but plainly > things changed and we were not kept in the loop. This is not a talent > issue this is a "Fedora's commitment to the team" issue. If there are variations from the guide, point them out. Either the guidelines or the artwork would need to be fixed in that case. > 3. Publish a schedule which clearly defines what is due and when. The > Ubuntu schedule (https://wiki.ubuntu.com/FeistyReleaseSchedule) notes > the deadlines for artwork as well as upstream projects. IMO this can be > vastly improved but it is way more than what we were given. At this > moment I honestly do not know when artwork will make it into the mix. > I'm guessing RC2 or RC3? Our schedule is described in http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Releases/7/. My expectation would be the first cut in Test 2 for artwork and more polish by Test 3. Atleast that is what I suggested when the discussions happened earlier. > Not only should Fedora be able to provide us with a release schedule for > version 7, but a schedule for version 8. I realize things change but the > process is the same. No. We dont intend to provide release schedules for the next release before the current release is done. It depends on each other and we dont really plan for two releases at a time. > Finally Rahul here are the disappointments. > > 1. It is obvious the intent from the very beginning was to have Diana > produce the final artwork. Why wasn't that stated plainly and clearly? ... because that might not have been the intent? What is obvious is that you spend time on doing things with some expectations which could have easily been avoided. That is a pretty big screwup on leadership. Apologies for that. > Will that always be the case? I would say we need to determine that based on the quality and polish of the artwork produced. It the community can produce the artwork that can directly get into the distribution, I see no reason to stop that. What is the intent for ?echo?? It has been discussed in the list extensively. The intent is to provide more icons and see if it can be set as the default for the general release if it works out well. What about > artwork for the doc team? What about them? 2. I do not know what tools Diana uses to create her images but many > professional artists use Adobe on Apple or similar product on Windows. I > have had this discussion with Diana and agree it's not the end of the > world if the images for Fedora come from one of these platforms, but > wouldn't it be nice if Fedora made a statement with it's head held high > and showed the world what can be done with open source software. The > Team said yes, what does Fedora say? I am a very strong supported of Free software. There are good tools like Inkscape and Blender but there are still gaps. Dog fooding would be good but if the artists are familiar with other tools and need to use them, I dont want to absolutely forbid that. We can be more inclusive. "Fedora" btw is the folks here. > So there you have it Rahul. The problem has little to do with artwork > and everything to do with process. As I said in my earlier mail, I agree with you on that. Rahul From nicu_fedora at nicubunu.ro Fri Feb 16 08:01:07 2007 From: nicu_fedora at nicubunu.ro (Nicu Buculei) Date: Fri, 16 Feb 2007 10:01:07 +0200 Subject: Artwork conversations In-Reply-To: <45D460B8.5090704@fedoraproject.org> References: <45D460B8.5090704@fedoraproject.org> Message-ID: <45D564C3.5050708@nicubunu.ro> Rahul Sundaram wrote: > > The conversation we had went on for over an hour about Fedora Artwork > project in general and specifically about getting a larger number of > contributors involved from the community, the process and the quality > that we need to maintain. Diana Fong was worried about the quality of > the artwork being produced but didnt work to throw off people from doing The "quality" criteria is so subjective that is just too easy to use is as a strawman. If she was genuinely worried about the quality of the produced work, she could have participated (as she was invited to). We never saw even only word of feedback from her either here on the list or in the comments to the proposals on the wiki. > the work. I was highlighting that the conversations usually is happening > on IRC or blogs which the people here in mailing lists are either not > aware of or not participation due to differences in time zones and the > process as being important as much as the quality of the work being > produced. I suggested that if we cant really collaborate on every step, > she can at the moment be transparent about her working methodology and > thoughts would be a good first step. I think her recent series of blogs > "The Voodoo That I Do" [2] is effective in that and should be > appreciated. Not everyone knows equally well to work in the community. Indeed, but one would expect some minimal trying, like on email in a while to the mailing list, and after years some learning about this "community" stuff. > Unlike say packaging where the line of quality vs community > participation is tilter in favor of the latter, I believe in artwork it > should be the former that is given a higher priority. We should not > sacrifice the good results and throw off skilled contributions just > because they or we havent yet been able to communicate well with the > community. Having said that, here is more details to consider. Also the opposite is true: we should not sacrifice good results and throw off skilled contributions just because they do not come from the "right" people from inside the walled garden. [...] > Fedora Core 6 artwork turned out to be even better with the concepts > drawn by Maureen Duffy, the 3D blender work done Mola and the final > polishing from Diana Fong. We managed to work as a team, incorporate > feedback from various circles such as the artwork being too dark > initially etc. Other than the long term discussions about the trademark > protection required in the logo vs the need for creativity, I think > there is agreement that the quality of the artwork in general has been > good to exceptional. What was not defined and to some extend still > causing confusion [3] is the process. We had to rush through kind of in > the last minute with Fedora Core 6 and here we are now worrying whether > we can do artwork effectively as a community today. I would say that is > pretty difficult and we would have to learn by trial and error a few > things and I have some ideas that could help here. So you are in agreement that the best looking Fedora so far was FC6, where the look was produced by a team of contributors, from inside and outside of the walled garden. > 1) Expect to jump through hurdles : This shouldnt need much > explanation but pretty much everytime we have initiated new projects, > there has been periods of confusion and general mess before we started > being effective. It is pretty much a established trend that I would be > surprised we had it all figured out right from the start anywhere. It > happened with with Fedora in general. Fedora Extras, Fedora > Documentation and now with Fedora Ambassadors and Artwork projects but > artwork is rather unique on its own for a number of reasons. The thing is, we proved we can be effective with FC6, why a step back is necessary? [...] > We might realise sometime later that this just isnt > working and shut it down but I consider that pretty premature to > conclude at this point. For now we feel we are not wanted and not needed, so from here come the idea of shutting down. > * Tackle work in discrete chunks : For example, creating one > particular icon for the Echo theme is much more easier than working on a > creating a entire desktop theme. We know the theme is incomplete. We put > in as the default sometime back to receive feedback and more importantly > contributions. So instead of endless talking about what holes we see, > try and fix them. We do not work here for money, if all we get is ingratitude, then we stop working and start endless complaints. > * Work as a team : Expect to receive criticism, others to take your > work and come up with variations or polish it better etc. Mola's blender > work in Fedora Core 6 and John Baer's concept work in Fedora 7 are good > examples of this. Exactly this is the complaint: instead of criticism the proposals received only disregard. And at the end, here is what I see as a proof of lack of goodwill: have a look at http://www.isity.net/blog/?p=60 Scroll down to the "credit" section. Do you notice there a familiar name? Maybe John Baer who came up with the idea? Me neither... For now I am seriously thinking of just giving up. -- nicu Cool Fedora wallpapers: http://fedora.nicubunu.ro/wallpapers/ Open Clip Art Library: http://www.openclipart.org my Fedora stuff: http://fedora.nicubunu.ro From sundaram at fedoraproject.org Fri Feb 16 09:02:50 2007 From: sundaram at fedoraproject.org (Rahul Sundaram) Date: Fri, 16 Feb 2007 14:32:50 +0530 Subject: Artwork conversations In-Reply-To: <45D564C3.5050708@nicubunu.ro> References: <45D460B8.5090704@fedoraproject.org> <45D564C3.5050708@nicubunu.ro> Message-ID: <45D5733A.5030807@fedoraproject.org> Nicu Buculei wrote: > Rahul Sundaram wrote: >> >> The conversation we had went on for over an hour about Fedora Artwork >> project in general and specifically about getting a larger number of >> contributors involved from the community, the process and the quality >> that we need to maintain. Diana Fong was worried about the quality of >> the artwork being produced but didnt work to throw off people from doing > > The "quality" criteria is so subjective that is just too easy to use is > as a strawman. Might be. See the community feedback from John Bear's and Diana Fong's work to understand how that works. > > If she was genuinely worried about the quality of the produced work, she > could have participated (as she was invited to). We never saw even only > word of feedback from her either here on the list or in the comments to > the proposals on the wiki. That goes back to how we provide feedback to artists vs developers. > The thing is, we proved we can be effective with FC6, why a step back is > necessary? I dont consider it a step back. In both cases the concepts was drawn and worked up a team and Diana Fong did the final work. The difference here might that Mola talked over IRC while John Baer didnt. That's just different working styles and prefered modes of interaction. > > We do not work here for money, if all we get is ingratitude, then we > stop working and start endless complaints. Echo theme has many contributors. I dont think anyone who contributed towards fixing gaps in it was put off from doing it. > Exactly this is the complaint: instead of criticism the proposals > received only disregard. > > And at the end, here is what I see as a proof of lack of goodwill: have > a look at http://www.isity.net/blog/?p=60 > Scroll down to the "credit" section. Do you notice there a familiar > name? Maybe John Baer who came up with the idea? Me neither... Credit has been attributed many times on the blog posts including the latest one. I wouldnt read too much into one particular post. Rahul From jjmasek at gmail.com Fri Feb 16 09:25:45 2007 From: jjmasek at gmail.com (Jiri Jakub Masek) Date: Fri, 16 Feb 2007 10:25:45 +0100 Subject: FC7ThemeProposalEnergyInterferences Message-ID: Hi all, it's *nice* discussion around the FedoraArtList... O.K., I added an archive file to wiki, the images of EnergyInterferences, if there is a responsible person to save it for *better* times, do it. JJM -- I'm still learning English... Ji?? Jakub Ma?ek - Mr Jiri Jakub Masek Czech Republic, European Union http://jjm.xf.cz -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From nicu_fedora at nicubunu.ro Fri Feb 16 09:28:09 2007 From: nicu_fedora at nicubunu.ro (Nicu Buculei) Date: Fri, 16 Feb 2007 11:28:09 +0200 Subject: Artwork conversations In-Reply-To: <45D5733A.5030807@fedoraproject.org> References: <45D460B8.5090704@fedoraproject.org> <45D564C3.5050708@nicubunu.ro> <45D5733A.5030807@fedoraproject.org> Message-ID: <45D57929.8040000@nicubunu.ro> Rahul Sundaram wrote: > Nicu Buculei wrote: >> >> The "quality" criteria is so subjective that is just too easy to use >> is as a strawman. > > Might be. See the community feedback from John Bear's and Diana Fong's > work to understand how that works. Yes, I can see the community feedback for John's work for example by looking at the mails I sent to this list or the files I uploaded to the wiki. > I dont consider it a step back. In both cases the concepts was drawn and > worked up a team and Diana Fong did the final work. The difference here > might that Mola talked over IRC while John Baer didnt. That's just > different working styles and prefered modes of interaction. OK, so using unarchived and closed channels is preferred. >> We do not work here for money, if all we get is ingratitude, then we >> stop working and start endless complaints. > > Echo theme has many contributors. I dont think anyone who contributed > towards fixing gaps in it was put off from doing it. I hate to give me as an example again... -- nicu Cool Fedora wallpapers: http://fedora.nicubunu.ro/wallpapers/ Open Clip Art Library: http://www.openclipart.org my Fedora stuff: http://fedora.nicubunu.ro From sundaram at fedoraproject.org Fri Feb 16 09:33:02 2007 From: sundaram at fedoraproject.org (Rahul Sundaram) Date: Fri, 16 Feb 2007 15:03:02 +0530 Subject: Artwork conversations In-Reply-To: <45D57929.8040000@nicubunu.ro> References: <45D460B8.5090704@fedoraproject.org> <45D564C3.5050708@nicubunu.ro> <45D5733A.5030807@fedoraproject.org> <45D57929.8040000@nicubunu.ro> Message-ID: <45D57A4E.9020508@fedoraproject.org> Nicu Buculei wrote: >> I dont consider it a step back. In both cases the concepts was drawn >> and worked up a team and Diana Fong did the final work. The difference >> here might that Mola talked over IRC while John Baer didnt. That's >> just different working styles and prefered modes of interaction. > > OK, so using unarchived and closed channels is preferred. We dont have artificially invent issues. It is a completely public channel. Archives are available if you want them. Rahul From luya_tfz at thefinalzone.com Fri Feb 16 10:25:19 2007 From: luya_tfz at thefinalzone.com (Luya Tshimbalanga) Date: Fri, 16 Feb 2007 02:25:19 -0800 Subject: Artwork conversations In-Reply-To: <45D564C3.5050708@nicubunu.ro> References: <45D460B8.5090704@fedoraproject.org> <45D564C3.5050708@nicubunu.ro> Message-ID: <45D5868F.4010009@thefinalzone.com> Nicu Buculei wrote: > > And at the end, here is what I see as a proof of lack of goodwill: > have a look at http://www.isity.net/blog/?p=60 > Scroll down to the "credit" section. Do you notice there a familiar > name? Maybe John Baer who came up with the idea? Me neither... FYI, the credit is for the use of pictures. Diana did give credit to John Baer on http://www.isity.net/blog/?p=57 Hope that clarification helps. -- ??D0 References: <45D460B8.5090704@fedoraproject.org> <45D564C3.5050708@nicubunu.ro> Message-ID: <20070216104322.191430@gmx.net> > The "quality" criteria is so subjective that is just too easy to use is > as a strawman. Ah, and what the hell then entitles you to claim that "FC6" has had the "best" artwork of all "Fedora" releases? In my opinion, "FC6" artwork already showed first signs of sloppyness. Only think of the installer "blender" image which used the glass ball when the installed distribution used a reflective one. I have the impression that the 3-4 persons contributing the majority of postings to this list think of themselves as being representative of the user community which is obviously wrong. There has been no representative vote on the final theme. A first tentative one showed "Borealis" and "Flying high" on par. Then there was a second one whose only subject was the "Flying high" theme, leaving no other choice to the voters, although there have been some clear caveats on this list regarding "Flying High". Under these circumstances, I do prefer a single qualified individual [DF] who steers the whole process in a proven manner than a small group hijacking artwork development. Everybody is welcome to submit suggestions, and John has come up with some nice ideas. However, the number of postings or submissions of the interested persons can by no means establish any kind of prerogative with respect to the final result. -- Der GMX SmartSurfer hilft bis zu 70% Ihrer Onlinekosten zu sparen! Ideal f?r Modem und ISDN: http://www.gmx.net/de/go/smartsurfer From nicu_fedora at nicubunu.ro Fri Feb 16 10:54:50 2007 From: nicu_fedora at nicubunu.ro (Nicu Buculei) Date: Fri, 16 Feb 2007 12:54:50 +0200 Subject: Artwork conversations In-Reply-To: <20070216104322.191430@gmx.net> References: <45D460B8.5090704@fedoraproject.org> <45D564C3.5050708@nicubunu.ro> <20070216104322.191430@gmx.net> Message-ID: <45D58D7A.7070606@nicubunu.ro> Joachim Frieben wrote: >> The "quality" criteria is so subjective that is just too easy to use is >> as a strawman. > > Ah, and what the hell then entitles you to claim that "FC6" has had the "best" artwork of all "Fedora" releases? In my opinion, "FC6" artwork already showed first signs of sloppyness. Only think of the installer "blender" image which used the glass ball when the installed distribution used a reflective one. I was replying to a post from Rahul where he stated "Fedora Core 6 artwork turned out to be even better" > I have the impression that the 3-4 persons contributing the majority of postings to this list think of themselves as being representative of the user community which is obviously wrong. There has been no representative vote on the final theme. A first tentative one showed "Borealis" and "Flying high" on par. Then there was a second one whose only subject was the "Flying high" theme, leaving no other choice to the voters, although there have been some clear caveats on this list regarding "Flying High". Votes? There was no voting process, the voting on fedoraforum.org was informal. Read this: http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Artwork/FC7Themes "There is no formal voting process for themes right now. You vote with your time and effort! So if you really like a theme idea, chip in and help refine it! For our next round (round 3), we'll take stock of how the themes have evolved and try to figure out which ones we need to choose between if there is no clear standout candidate." > Under these circumstances, I do prefer a single qualified individual [DF] who steers the whole process in a proven manner than a small group hijacking artwork development. > > Everybody is welcome to submit suggestions, and John has come up with some nice ideas. However, the number of postings or submissions of the interested persons can by no means establish any kind of prerogative with respect to the final result. Read again the wiki page I pointed you above. The page was written by the founder of the Art project, was discussed on the list and we had consensus about it. So what are you saying about hijacking? -- nicu Cool Fedora wallpapers: http://fedora.nicubunu.ro/wallpapers/ Open Clip Art Library: http://www.openclipart.org my Fedora stuff: http://fedora.nicubunu.ro From luya_tfz at thefinalzone.com Fri Feb 16 10:59:27 2007 From: luya_tfz at thefinalzone.com (Luya Tshimbalanga) Date: Fri, 16 Feb 2007 02:59:27 -0800 Subject: go-home echo icon concept In-Reply-To: <45D46DD4.3050000@seznam.cz> References: <45CC4DD5.1090905@seznam.cz> <45D31B74.9020801@seznam.cz> <1171520861.45d3fd5d739bc@ssl.mecca.ca> <45D45C18.20201@seznam.cz> <45D466EA.9090303@webworks.se> <45D46DD4.3050000@seznam.cz> Message-ID: <45D58E8F.7030108@thefinalzone.com> Could you provide both png and svg so go-home can be published on the wiki? To do the shadow, follow this guideline http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Artwork/EchoIconGuidelines -- ??D0 References: <45CC4DD5.1090905@seznam.cz> <45D31B74.9020801@seznam.cz> <1171520861.45d3fd5d739bc@ssl.mecca.ca> <45D45C18.20201@seznam.cz> <45D466EA.9090303@webworks.se> <45D46DD4.3050000@seznam.cz> <45D58E8F.7030108@thefinalzone.com> Message-ID: <45D58FE8.8000603@seznam.cz> Certainly, I can provide both png and svg. But, should I provide both with and without a folder? And, about the shadows - I saw, that svgs are usualy without shadows - is that only because inkscape didn't have the needed feature? If that is so, should I add the shadow only to the png, or to svg as well? Luya Tshimbalanga wrote: > Could you provide both png and svg so go-home can be published on the > wiki? To do the shadow, follow this guideline > http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Artwork/EchoIconGuidelines > From luya_tfz at thefinalzone.com Fri Feb 16 11:15:47 2007 From: luya_tfz at thefinalzone.com (Luya Tshimbalanga) Date: Fri, 16 Feb 2007 03:15:47 -0800 Subject: go-home echo icon concept In-Reply-To: <45D58FE8.8000603@seznam.cz> References: <45CC4DD5.1090905@seznam.cz> <45D31B74.9020801@seznam.cz> <1171520861.45d3fd5d739bc@ssl.mecca.ca> <45D45C18.20201@seznam.cz> <45D466EA.9090303@webworks.se> <45D46DD4.3050000@seznam.cz> <45D58E8F.7030108@thefinalzone.com> <45D58FE8.8000603@seznam.cz> Message-ID: <45D59263.9080208@thefinalzone.com> Martin Sourada wrote: > Certainly, I can provide both png and svg. But, should I provide both > with and without a folder? And, about the shadows - I saw, that svgs > are usualy without shadows - is that only because inkscape didn't have > the needed feature? If that is so, should I add the shadow only to the > png, or to svg as well? Without folder in order to be consistent. PNG icon can be with shadow while SVG icon can be without it. However, with Inkscape 0.45 it is possible fake a shadow because of blur effect (not supported on Firefox 2 and earlier) -- ??D0 References: <45CC4DD5.1090905@seznam.cz> <45D31B74.9020801@seznam.cz> <1171520861.45d3fd5d739bc@ssl.mecca.ca> <45D45C18.20201@seznam.cz> <45D466EA.9090303@webworks.se> <45D46DD4.3050000@seznam.cz> <45D58E8F.7030108@thefinalzone.com> <45D58FE8.8000603@seznam.cz> Message-ID: <45D59281.5020503@nicubunu.ro> Martin Sourada wrote: > Certainly, I can provide both png and svg. But, should I provide both > with and without a folder? And, about the shadows - I saw, that svgs are > usualy without shadows - is that only because inkscape didn't have the > needed feature? If that is so, should I add the shadow only to the png, > or to svg as well? The SVGs have no shadows because of two reasons: - Inkscape had no blur filter in a release until recently; - Diana made the first icons in Illustrator, which I don't know how create shadows (with SVG filters or embedded bitmaps, at one point it used bitmaps for blur). As Inkscape was updated to 0.45 is in Fedora 5 and 6 I believe you can safely use the blur filter in SVG. -- nicu Cool Fedora wallpapers: http://fedora.nicubunu.ro/wallpapers/ Open Clip Art Library: http://www.openclipart.org my Fedora stuff: http://fedora.nicubunu.ro From nicu_fedora at nicubunu.ro Fri Feb 16 11:20:57 2007 From: nicu_fedora at nicubunu.ro (Nicu Buculei) Date: Fri, 16 Feb 2007 13:20:57 +0200 Subject: go-home echo icon concept In-Reply-To: <45D59263.9080208@thefinalzone.com> References: <45CC4DD5.1090905@seznam.cz> <45D31B74.9020801@seznam.cz> <1171520861.45d3fd5d739bc@ssl.mecca.ca> <45D45C18.20201@seznam.cz> <45D466EA.9090303@webworks.se> <45D46DD4.3050000@seznam.cz> <45D58E8F.7030108@thefinalzone.com> <45D58FE8.8000603@seznam.cz> <45D59263.9080208@thefinalzone.com> Message-ID: <45D59399.5050202@nicubunu.ro> Luya Tshimbalanga wrote: > > Without folder in order to be consistent. PNG icon can be with shadow > while SVG icon can be without it. However, with Inkscape 0.45 it is > possible fake a shadow because of blur effect (not supported on Firefox > 2 and earlier) The shadow made with the blur filter is the proper one, fake was using pre-0.45 ways, like the "blur edge" effect or using gradients. I don't think Firefox 2 not supporting blur is a blocker, the icons are not intended to be shown as SVG by the web browser (and to enter in details, the web server hosting he wiki is anyway improperly configured to serve a wrong MIME Type for SVG, so you can't see SVG in browser even if you try). -- nicu Cool Fedora wallpapers: http://fedora.nicubunu.ro/wallpapers/ Open Clip Art Library: http://www.openclipart.org my Fedora stuff: http://fedora.nicubunu.ro From luya_tfz at thefinalzone.com Fri Feb 16 11:31:21 2007 From: luya_tfz at thefinalzone.com (Luya Tshimbalanga) Date: Fri, 16 Feb 2007 03:31:21 -0800 Subject: go-home echo icon concept In-Reply-To: <45D59399.5050202@nicubunu.ro> References: <45CC4DD5.1090905@seznam.cz> <45D31B74.9020801@seznam.cz> <1171520861.45d3fd5d739bc@ssl.mecca.ca> <45D45C18.20201@seznam.cz> <45D466EA.9090303@webworks.se> <45D46DD4.3050000@seznam.cz> <45D58E8F.7030108@thefinalzone.com> <45D58FE8.8000603@seznam.cz> <45D59263.9080208@thefinalzone.com> <45D59399.5050202@nicubunu.ro> Message-ID: <45D59609.7030903@thefinalzone.com> Nicu Buculei wrote: > > The shadow made with the blur filter is the proper one, fake was using > pre-0.45 ways, like the "blur edge" effect or using gradients. I used gradients for the emotes. I will plan to update them using blur filter on post F7. > > I don't think Firefox 2 not supporting blur is a blocker, the icons > are not intended to be shown as SVG by the web browser (and to enter > in details, the web server hosting he wiki is anyway improperly > configured to serve a wrong MIME Type for SVG, so you can't see SVG in > browser even if you try). > Ah, that explains why Firefox asked to download svg file. -- ??D0 Hello Diana, Welcome to the Fedora art team. I followed this link from your blog to your submission. http://people.redhat.com/dfong/fc7graphics/ As always your work is very nice. I have a couple of requests. 1. Would you move your work to a wiki page using a format similar to http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Fc7ThemeProposalFlyingHighRc1 ? This page needs to be a public facing and describes your concept and lays out mock ups or screen shots of your submission. I see this page being reviewed by forum members and linked to the "release notes" wiki page referenced by distrowatch. 2. Would you create a second wiki page similar to http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Fc7ThemeProposalFlyingHigh which is intended to be inward facing? This page would hold down-load-able artwork that can be tested by members. If you have install scripts that would be nice. My first question is one of theme design. In my mind I view a theme as a story board. The images are linked, but they are different. Your approach seems to be one of image re-use. I noticed the wallpaper image is the same as the gdm login background. The balloon behind the clouds image is used in many of the screens. In FC6 I saw the same scenario and I assumed it was because of the time constraint. I noticed the RHGB image does not confirm to the design guide. I like the image but I assume the RHGB maintainer is in agreement to the change. Until I can test the GRUB images I always worry about quality. IMO the FC6 grub image does not display well (very grainy) and my submission was an attempt to minimize this. There is also the issue of black screen, blue screen, black screen, blue screen. IMO the current boot process looks choppy as a result. The first boot screen looks very similar to the FC6 screen. I was hoping for something different as I believe this screen dates back a few versions. In addition, how do you feel about adding "echo" icons to your submission? I noted there is no optional artwork. I assume the decision has been made to exclude the splash screen of gimp, open office, gdm, kde, and the screen save unlock. Cheers, John From martin.sourada at seznam.cz Fri Feb 16 11:43:13 2007 From: martin.sourada at seznam.cz (Martin Sourada) Date: Fri, 16 Feb 2007 12:43:13 +0100 Subject: go-home echo icon concept In-Reply-To: <45D59281.5020503@nicubunu.ro> References: <45CC4DD5.1090905@seznam.cz> <45D31B74.9020801@seznam.cz> <1171520861.45d3fd5d739bc@ssl.mecca.ca> <45D45C18.20201@seznam.cz> <45D466EA.9090303@webworks.se> <45D46DD4.3050000@seznam.cz> <45D58E8F.7030108@thefinalzone.com> <45D58FE8.8000603@seznam.cz> <45D59281.5020503@nicubunu.ro> Message-ID: <45D598D1.2050206@seznam.cz> Ok, so I decided to put the shadow to the svg as well. I attach PNGs for large and small sizes. SVGs can be downloaded here: http://feannatar.hostuju.cz/fedora/files/echo/go-homeL.svg http://feannatar.hostuju.cz/fedora/files/echo/go-homeS.svg -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: go-homeL.png Type: image/png Size: 2724 bytes Desc: not available URL: -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: go-homeS.png Type: image/png Size: 647 bytes Desc: not available URL: From nicu_fedora at nicubunu.ro Fri Feb 16 12:00:09 2007 From: nicu_fedora at nicubunu.ro (Nicu Buculei) Date: Fri, 16 Feb 2007 14:00:09 +0200 Subject: go-home echo icon concept In-Reply-To: <45D598D1.2050206@seznam.cz> References: <45CC4DD5.1090905@seznam.cz> <45D31B74.9020801@seznam.cz> <1171520861.45d3fd5d739bc@ssl.mecca.ca> <45D45C18.20201@seznam.cz> <45D466EA.9090303@webworks.se> <45D46DD4.3050000@seznam.cz> <45D58E8F.7030108@thefinalzone.com> <45D58FE8.8000603@seznam.cz> <45D59281.5020503@nicubunu.ro> <45D598D1.2050206@seznam.cz> Message-ID: <45D59CC9.9000106@nicubunu.ro> Martin Sourada wrote: > Ok, so I decided to put the shadow to the svg as well. I attach PNGs for > large and small sizes. SVGs can be downloaded here: > http://feannatar.hostuju.cz/fedora/files/echo/go-homeL.svg > http://feannatar.hostuju.cz/fedora/files/echo/go-homeS.svg I would recommend you to use black instead of gray (#666666) as the color of the shadow and document the values for blur and transparency in the wiki (http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Artwork/EchoIconGuidelines) as a reference for the other icon creators. -- nicu Cool Fedora wallpapers: http://fedora.nicubunu.ro/wallpapers/ Open Clip Art Library: http://www.openclipart.org my Fedora stuff: http://fedora.nicubunu.ro From martin.sourada at seznam.cz Fri Feb 16 12:48:33 2007 From: martin.sourada at seznam.cz (Martin Sourada) Date: Fri, 16 Feb 2007 13:48:33 +0100 Subject: go-home echo icon concept In-Reply-To: <45D59CC9.9000106@nicubunu.ro> References: <45CC4DD5.1090905@seznam.cz> <45D31B74.9020801@seznam.cz> <1171520861.45d3fd5d739bc@ssl.mecca.ca> <45D45C18.20201@seznam.cz> <45D466EA.9090303@webworks.se> <45D46DD4.3050000@seznam.cz> <45D58E8F.7030108@thefinalzone.com> <45D58FE8.8000603@seznam.cz> <45D59281.5020503@nicubunu.ro> <45D598D1.2050206@seznam.cz> <45D59CC9.9000106@nicubunu.ro> Message-ID: <45D5A821.6050006@seznam.cz> I folowed the guidlines and there is said: "The shadow is formed by lines from the isometric grid. It is appears primarily behind the object; as well as a bit in front of and under the object. Do not to use black, as it is too harsh and does not scale well...dark gray is acceptable." Do you think, that using black with transparency would be better than using dark-grey without transparency (save for the blur effect which adds transparency, of course)? And yes, it would be good to document the certain values on wiki. But we must first decide which ones are the best... Nicu Buculei wrote: > Martin Sourada wrote: >> Ok, so I decided to put the shadow to the svg as well. I attach PNGs >> for large and small sizes. SVGs can be downloaded here: >> http://feannatar.hostuju.cz/fedora/files/echo/go-homeL.svg >> http://feannatar.hostuju.cz/fedora/files/echo/go-homeS.svg > > I would recommend you to use black instead of gray (#666666) as the > color of the shadow and document the values for blur and transparency > in the wiki (http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Artwork/EchoIconGuidelines) > as a reference for the other icon creators. > From nicu_fedora at nicubunu.ro Fri Feb 16 12:17:31 2007 From: nicu_fedora at nicubunu.ro (Nicu Buculei) Date: Fri, 16 Feb 2007 14:17:31 +0200 Subject: Early impressions of Default artwork In-Reply-To: <1171625621.3330.29.camel@localhost.localdomain> References: <1171625621.3330.29.camel@localhost.localdomain> Message-ID: <45D5A0DB.5070200@nicubunu.ro> John Baer wrote: > > My first question is one of theme design. In my mind I view a theme as a > story board. The images are linked, but they are different. Your > approach seems to be one of image re-use. I noticed the wallpaper image > is the same as the gdm login background. The balloon behind the clouds > image is used in many of the screens. In FC6 I saw the same scenario and > I assumed it was because of the time constraint. I would guess this was intentional, your idea of a story board is somewhat original, I don't think I saw it in another operating system. Original does not meant bad, it may be a good idea. > Until I can test the GRUB images I always worry about quality. IMO the > FC6 grub image does not display well (very grainy) and my submission was > an attempt to minimize this. There is also the issue of black screen, > blue screen, black screen, blue screen. IMO the current boot process > looks choppy as a result. Open the PNG with GIMP, save as xpm.gz, test it and tell us if is too grainy or not :p Personally I would like the GRUB image to have the same blue as the rest of the graphics (the blue background of RHGB) . I understand it can't be identical due to technical constraints (14 colors), but it may be as close as possible. > The first boot screen looks very similar to the FC6 screen. I was hoping > for something different as I believe this screen dates back a few > versions. In addition, how do you feel about adding "echo" icons to your > submission? Indeed, this is a must *if* Echo will be the default icon set, but this was decided or is still up to discuss? > I noted there is no optional artwork. I assume the decision has been > made to exclude the splash screen of gimp, open office, gdm, kde, and > the screen save unlock. IIRC, the overall opinion was to leave those unmodified. -- nicu Cool Fedora wallpapers: http://fedora.nicubunu.ro/wallpapers/ Open Clip Art Library: http://www.openclipart.org my Fedora stuff: http://fedora.nicubunu.ro From nicu_fedora at nicubunu.ro Fri Feb 16 13:28:31 2007 From: nicu_fedora at nicubunu.ro (Nicu Buculei) Date: Fri, 16 Feb 2007 15:28:31 +0200 Subject: go-home echo icon concept In-Reply-To: <45D5A821.6050006@seznam.cz> References: <45CC4DD5.1090905@seznam.cz> <45D31B74.9020801@seznam.cz> <1171520861.45d3fd5d739bc@ssl.mecca.ca> <45D45C18.20201@seznam.cz> <45D466EA.9090303@webworks.se> <45D46DD4.3050000@seznam.cz> <45D58E8F.7030108@thefinalzone.com> <45D58FE8.8000603@seznam.cz> <45D59281.5020503@nicubunu.ro> <45D598D1.2050206@seznam.cz> <45D59CC9.9000106@nicubunu.ro> <45D5A821.6050006@seznam.cz> Message-ID: <45D5B17F.7050904@nicubunu.ro> Martin Sourada wrote: > I folowed the guidlines and there is said: "The shadow is formed by > lines from the isometric grid. It is appears primarily behind the > object; as well as a bit in front of and under the object. Do not to use > black, as it is too harsh and does not scale well...dark gray is > acceptable." Of course not *solid* black. I think the intention is to use black with a degree of transparency, which look gray, at least this is what the other icon sets (for example Tango) do. > Do you think, that using black with transparency would be better than > using dark-grey without transparency (save for the blur effect which > adds transparency, of course)? Definitely the shadow must have transparency, be it transparent black or transparent dark gray as the icon can be shown against a colored or textured background and it will look smooth only with transparency. > And yes, it would be good to document the certain values on wiki. But we > must first decide which ones are the best... The eternal question (see the "Artwork conversation" thread): who has the power to define those values? We have to wait for Diana? -- nicu Cool Fedora wallpapers: http://fedora.nicubunu.ro/wallpapers/ Open Clip Art Library: http://www.openclipart.org my Fedora stuff: http://fedora.nicubunu.ro From martin.sourada at seznam.cz Fri Feb 16 17:14:01 2007 From: martin.sourada at seznam.cz (Martin Sourada) Date: Fri, 16 Feb 2007 18:14:01 +0100 Subject: Shadow guidelines in echo icon set (color, amount of blur, transparency) In-Reply-To: <45D5B17F.7050904@nicubunu.ro> References: <45CC4DD5.1090905@seznam.cz> <45D31B74.9020801@seznam.cz> <1171520861.45d3fd5d739bc@ssl.mecca.ca> <45D45C18.20201@seznam.cz> <45D466EA.9090303@webworks.se> <45D46DD4.3050000@seznam.cz> <45D58E8F.7030108@thefinalzone.com> <45D58FE8.8000603@seznam.cz> <45D59281.5020503@nicubunu.ro> <45D598D1.2050206@seznam.cz> <45D59CC9.9000106@nicubunu.ro> <45D5A821.6050006@seznam.cz> <45D5B17F.7050904@nicubunu.ro> Message-ID: <45D5E659.6010904@seznam.cz> Nicu Buculei wrote: > Of course not *solid* black. I think the intention is to use black > with a degree of transparency, which look gray, at least this is what > the other icon sets (for example Tango) do. > Well, I think the guidlines aren't as precise as one would like - there isn't stated whether *solid* or *semitransparent* black should not be used... I would maybe use some dark gray with transparency - not black... > Definitely the shadow must have transparency, be it transparent black > or transparent dark gray as the icon can be shown against a colored or > textured background and it will look smooth only with transparency. It will look smooth even without the kind of transparency I am talking about. It is blured - and the blur efect adds transparency, so the transitions between the shadow and background are smooth, the question is, if the base color of the shadow shoud be transparent. I think most users won't see any difference (especially with smaller icons), but certainly if the base color of the shadow is already semitransparent it is more realistic. So I think, that maybe it should be semitransparent, but not black. > The eternal question (see the "Artwork conversation" thread): who has > the power to define those values? We have to wait for Diana? We are talking about echo, and it that case, at least to me, it seems that Diana communicantes quite well. I read the "Artwork conversation" thread and I don't see it as bad as you do, but I feel too new here to have any word in that case... So in echo, I think, guidlines should be talked with Diana, Mola and/or Luya. I start this reply as new thread because it is about more than one icon now... IMO it would work - like in the case of plus and star emblems. From baerjj at gmail.com Fri Feb 16 17:39:42 2007 From: baerjj at gmail.com (John Baer) Date: Fri, 16 Feb 2007 12:39:42 -0500 Subject: Fedora-art-list Digest, Vol 11, Issue 28 In-Reply-To: <20070216170005.16F1E730A5@hormel.redhat.com> References: <20070216170005.16F1E730A5@hormel.redhat.com> Message-ID: <484ace5d0702160939u960bf39odcd151b930ca7feb@mail.gmail.com> On 2/16/07, fedora-art-list-request at redhat.com < fedora-art-list-request at redhat.com> wrote:Nicu wrote: Open the PNG with GIMP, save as xpm.gz, test it and tell us if is too > grainy or not :p Thanks, I can do that ... :) Personally I would like the GRUB image to have the same blue as the rest > of the graphics (the blue background of RHGB) . I understand it can't be > identical due to technical constraints (14 colors), but it may be as > close as possible. Some distro's hide the initial kernel load dialog. If that is possible here the screens would flow from grub to RHGB. On the downside that approach presents the grub image for an extended period which may be problematic on some systems. Otherwise I'm good with a dark blue (RHGB) background. :) > The first boot screen looks very similar to the FC6 screen. I was hoping > > for something different as I believe this screen dates back a few > > versions. In addition, how do you feel about adding "echo" icons to your > > submission? > > Indeed, this is a must *if* Echo will be the default icon set, but this > was decided or is still up to discuss? The "echo" decision is still pending but my suggestion is go ahead and add them to anaconda no matter the outcome. I assume the current icons are blue curve but I am not sure. > I noted there is no optional artwork. I assume the decision has been > > made to exclude the splash screen of gimp, open office, gdm, kde, and > > the screen save unlock. > > IIRC, the overall opinion was to leave those unmodified. Ok :( -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From uno at webworks.se Fri Feb 16 18:00:59 2007 From: uno at webworks.se (Uno Engborg) Date: Fri, 16 Feb 2007 19:00:59 +0100 Subject: Artwork conversations In-Reply-To: <45D57A4E.9020508@fedoraproject.org> References: <45D460B8.5090704@fedoraproject.org> <45D564C3.5050708@nicubunu.ro> <45D5733A.5030807@fedoraproject.org> <45D57929.8040000@nicubunu.ro> <45D57A4E.9020508@fedoraproject.org> Message-ID: <45D5F15B.7070300@webworks.se> Rahul Sundaram wrote: > Nicu Buculei wrote: > >>> I dont consider it a step back. In both cases the concepts was drawn >>> and worked up a team and Diana Fong did the final work. The >>> difference here might that Mola talked over IRC while John Baer >>> didnt. That's just different working styles and prefered modes of >>> interaction. >> >> >> OK, so using unarchived and closed channels is preferred. > > > We dont have artificially invent issues. It is a completely public > channel. Archives are available if you want them. Actually, this is a little more than artificially invented issue. The problem with IRC is that conversations take place in real time. This is a problem for projects that may have particepants in different parts of the world with different time zones. Regards Uno Engborg From sundaram at fedoraproject.org Fri Feb 16 18:15:48 2007 From: sundaram at fedoraproject.org (Rahul Sundaram) Date: Fri, 16 Feb 2007 23:45:48 +0530 Subject: Artwork conversations In-Reply-To: <45D5F15B.7070300@webworks.se> References: <45D460B8.5090704@fedoraproject.org> <45D564C3.5050708@nicubunu.ro> <45D5733A.5030807@fedoraproject.org> <45D57929.8040000@nicubunu.ro> <45D57A4E.9020508@fedoraproject.org> <45D5F15B.7070300@webworks.se> Message-ID: <45D5F4D4.1010204@fedoraproject.org> Uno Engborg wrote: > Rahul Sundaram wrote: > >> Nicu Buculei wrote: >> >>>> I dont consider it a step back. In both cases the concepts was drawn >>>> and worked up a team and Diana Fong did the final work. The >>>> difference here might that Mola talked over IRC while John Baer >>>> didnt. That's just different working styles and prefered modes of >>>> interaction. >>> >>> >>> OK, so using unarchived and closed channels is preferred. >> >> >> We dont have artificially invent issues. It is a completely public >> channel. Archives are available if you want them. > > > Actually, this is a little more than artificially invented issue. The > problem with IRC is that conversations take place in real time. > This is a problem for projects that may have particepants in different > parts of the world with different time zones. Sure but that is a completely different issue which in no way makes the channel closed. It is not hard to setup bots which automatically archives all the conversations in the channel. I suspect there might already be public services which do just that. Rahul From luya_tfz at thefinalzone.com Fri Feb 16 18:22:48 2007 From: luya_tfz at thefinalzone.com (Luya Tshimbalanga) Date: Fri, 16 Feb 2007 10:22:48 -0800 Subject: go-home echo icon concept In-Reply-To: <45D598D1.2050206@seznam.cz> References: <45CC4DD5.1090905@seznam.cz> <45D31B74.9020801@seznam.cz> <1171520861.45d3fd5d739bc@ssl.mecca.ca> <45D45C18.20201@seznam.cz> <45D466EA.9090303@webworks.se> <45D46DD4.3050000@seznam.cz> <45D58E8F.7030108@thefinalzone.com> <45D58FE8.8000603@seznam.cz> <45D59281.5020503@nicubunu.ro> <45D598D1.2050206@seznam.cz> Message-ID: <45D5F678.5010002@thefinalzone.com> Martin Sourada wrote: > Ok, so I decided to put the shadow to the svg as well. I attach PNGs > for large and small sizes. SVGs can be downloaded here: > http://feannatar.hostuju.cz/fedora/files/echo/go-homeL.svg > http://feannatar.hostuju.cz/fedora/files/echo/go-homeS.svg go-home icons are now published on the echo-development wiki http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Artwork/EchoDevelopment -- ??D0 I'll jump in this discussion as a relative outsider, and start by saying that I am not an artist by any stretch of imagination. I am not going to comment on the quality of any artwork either. I'm not going to reply to the many long emails in this conversation in detail, but I'd like to respond to this quote, which I think is indicative of some of the misunderstandings that have happened: "[all we can do is] sit back and each 6 months when a new version is released act as fanboys and worship the great powers that brought us the graphics" No, not at all. Instead find a channel to get your art in people's hands. Focusing narrowly on the default, branded theme that ships with the next Fedora release is probably not the best way to achieve that. Also, striving for the overarching, unified experience "from cradle to grave" or rather from anaconda to background makes it much harder than it has to be. Many of the pieces of a "full branding kit" are seen only once (if at all) by our users (anaconda, firstboot, etc). On the flip side, the parts that people see all the time on their desktops (gtk theme, window manager theme, background, icons) are easy to package up and get into Fedora as a standalone package. Another point is that almost all the proposals that have been discussed on this list are heavily branded. The heavy branding in FC5 (and to a lesser extent, FC6) was necessary to introduce the new Fedora logo. But I think that longer-term, it would be much better to produce themes that are less branded and can stand on their own because of their quality as a theme, not because they have the necessary branding to become the default Fedora theme. And we could really use more high-quality non-branded themes, e.g. to make it easier for those who create derived distributions and need to strip out the Fedora branding. It is also worth pointing out that you do not even have to package your theme as an rpm; the theme capplet allows drag-and-drop installation of themes from tarballs that can e.g. be published at art.gnome.org. Currently this does not include cursor theme, background and login screen, but that will hopefully change at some point. Regarding Echo - nobody disagrees that it is incomplete, maybe more so than some other icon themes that we ship (none of them is "complete" though, that notion is not even well-defined). But the "open source" way is to release early and often, and let things develop out in the open. Which is exactly what we are doing with Echo. Finally, some emails in this conversation have expressed the idea that doing open source implies doing everything out in the open and by direct democracy. That is very far from the truth. I recommend writing a kernel patch and trying to get it in the kernel to get rid of this notion... Matthias From uno at webworks.se Fri Feb 16 18:39:24 2007 From: uno at webworks.se (Uno Engborg) Date: Fri, 16 Feb 2007 19:39:24 +0100 Subject: Artwork conversations In-Reply-To: <45D5F4D4.1010204@fedoraproject.org> References: <45D460B8.5090704@fedoraproject.org> <45D564C3.5050708@nicubunu.ro> <45D5733A.5030807@fedoraproject.org> <45D57929.8040000@nicubunu.ro> <45D57A4E.9020508@fedoraproject.org> <45D5F15B.7070300@webworks.se> <45D5F4D4.1010204@fedoraproject.org> Message-ID: <45D5FA5C.1010504@webworks.se> Rahul Sundaram wrote: > Uno Engborg wrote: > >> Rahul Sundaram wrote: >> >>> Nicu Buculei wrote: >>> >>>>> I dont consider it a step back. In both cases the concepts was >>>>> drawn and worked up a team and Diana Fong did the final work. The >>>>> difference here might that Mola talked over IRC while John Baer >>>>> didnt. That's just different working styles and prefered modes of >>>>> interaction. >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> OK, so using unarchived and closed channels is preferred. >>> >>> >>> >>> We dont have artificially invent issues. It is a completely public >>> channel. Archives are available if you want them. >> >> >> >> Actually, this is a little more than artificially invented issue. >> The problem with IRC is that conversations take place in real time. >> This is a problem for projects that may have particepants in >> different parts of the world with different time zones. > > > Sure but that is a completely different issue which in no way makes > the channel closed. It is not hard to setup bots which automatically > archives all the conversations in the channel. I suspect there might > already be public services which do just that. Archives makes the channel open to see, but in a community project it must also be open to participate even if you happen to be in another time zone. I doubt very much that people using IRC will start their work day by scanning the backlog of IRC messages that have taken place during the night, answers them and then wait to the next day for their answer. /uno From sundaram at fedoraproject.org Fri Feb 16 18:49:09 2007 From: sundaram at fedoraproject.org (Rahul Sundaram) Date: Sat, 17 Feb 2007 00:19:09 +0530 Subject: Artwork conversations In-Reply-To: <45D5FA5C.1010504@webworks.se> References: <45D460B8.5090704@fedoraproject.org> <45D564C3.5050708@nicubunu.ro> <45D5733A.5030807@fedoraproject.org> <45D57929.8040000@nicubunu.ro> <45D57A4E.9020508@fedoraproject.org> <45D5F15B.7070300@webworks.se> <45D5F4D4.1010204@fedoraproject.org> <45D5FA5C.1010504@webworks.se> Message-ID: <45D5FCA5.6050307@fedoraproject.org> Uno Engborg wrote: > Archives makes the channel open to see, but in a community project it > must also be open to participate even if you happen to be in another > time zone. You can login into a #fedora-art irc channel anytime you want and start discussing things with people who are available at that time. You simply cannot argue that a channel like fedora-art is closed in any way. > I doubt very much that people using IRC will start their work day by > scanning the backlog of IRC messages that have taken place during the > night, answers them and then wait to the next day for their answer. I have done that on several occasions so... I doubt even making archives available would solve that problem. In other words you are harping on the wrong end. Drop email, respond to blog comments and so on if you are on a different timezone. Rahul From dfong at redhat.com Fri Feb 16 20:04:41 2007 From: dfong at redhat.com (Diana Fong) Date: Fri, 16 Feb 2007 15:04:41 -0500 Subject: go-home echo icon concept In-Reply-To: <45D5A821.6050006@seznam.cz> References: <45CC4DD5.1090905@seznam.cz> <45D31B74.9020801@seznam.cz> <1171520861.45d3fd5d739bc@ssl.mecca.ca> <45D45C18.20201@seznam.cz> <45D466EA.9090303@webworks.se> <45D46DD4.3050000@seznam.cz> <45D58E8F.7030108@thefinalzone.com> <45D58FE8.8000603@seznam.cz> <45D59281.5020503@nicubunu.ro> <45D598D1.2050206@seznam.cz> <45D59CC9.9000106@nicubunu.ro> <45D5A821.6050006@seznam.cz> Message-ID: <45D60E59.3000505@redhat.com> Martin Sourada wrote: > I folowed the guidlines and there is said: "The shadow is formed by > lines from the isometric grid. It is appears primarily behind the > object; as well as a bit in front of and under the object. Do not to > use black, as it is too harsh and does not scale well...dark gray is > acceptable." > > Do you think, that using black with transparency would be better than > using dark-grey without transparency (save for the blur effect which > adds transparency, of course)? > > And yes, it would be good to document the certain values on wiki. But > we must first decide which ones are the best... The shadow, quickly examined, is a sort of gradient with the darkest (sometimes solid) color at one end (often closest/touching the object) and a transition to transparent pixels at the other thus allowing the sense of integration with the panel, background, and such. The general guideline provided was to describe my approach of using a dark gray as the starting point for the shadow's gradient. When creating the initial icons I often found myself creating far too dark shadows if I started with black. When creating several of these icons a day, I easily found my shadows getting darker and darker. Thus starting with a dark gray, instead of black, helped me take care of this problem and thus my posted suggestion to other contributors. What should the values be? Colors and shapes are relative. Artists should be encouraged to use their artistic sense in determining relative colors, with the posted palette as a base guideline. A color determined for one icon might not work as well for another, thus the value added by artists who can visually compensate and flexibly combine colors and shapes to create pieces that work both as an individual icon and as part of the whole set. An example of this is...system-search...the tilt of the object requires darker shadows near the handle and a lighter shadow cast by the glass itself. Compare this icon to any of the others that sit directly on surface, such as applications-internet, the shadows for those are slightly darker. With that said, I am not opposed to further clarifying, correcting, or expanding the initial guidelines. With specific questions such as the ones raised about Stars and Pluses, the guidelines can be made to be more detailed and informative. This is an ongoing project. Presenting works in progress, runs the risk of missing and inadequate information. However, these can be constructively discussed, proposed, and remedied. To address this specific issue, I still stand with my recommendation of starting with a dark gray instead of black. Due to the blur aspect of the shadow, it seemed somewhat obvious that the shadow would be semitransparent...but this can be specifically added in the guidelines for additional clarity. As for the exact value of dark gray...perhaps Luya can propose (and Martin or others can confirm) a few Hex Values, since the shadows on the emotion icons seem to be good starting points. However, I would like to stress again, that these numbers should really be used as references, allowing artists the flexibility to tweak as appropriate from icon to icon. Diana Fong --- Red Hat Visual Designer | Desktop Group From martin.sourada at seznam.cz Fri Feb 16 20:24:26 2007 From: martin.sourada at seznam.cz (Martin Sourada) Date: Fri, 16 Feb 2007 21:24:26 +0100 Subject: go-home echo icon concept In-Reply-To: <45D60E59.3000505@redhat.com> References: <45CC4DD5.1090905@seznam.cz> <45D31B74.9020801@seznam.cz> <1171520861.45d3fd5d739bc@ssl.mecca.ca> <45D45C18.20201@seznam.cz> <45D466EA.9090303@webworks.se> <45D46DD4.3050000@seznam.cz> <45D58E8F.7030108@thefinalzone.com> <45D58FE8.8000603@seznam.cz> <45D59281.5020503@nicubunu.ro> <45D598D1.2050206@seznam.cz> <45D59CC9.9000106@nicubunu.ro> <45D5A821.6050006@seznam.cz> <45D60E59.3000505@redhat.com> Message-ID: <45D612FA.3010608@seznam.cz> Maybe we should at least consider whether the darkest color at the first end should be solid or semitransparent. If it would be semitranpsparent than the amount of lightness in that point could be handled only by the transparency. As it is in real world - when the object which casts the shadow is nearer than the shadow is darker and less blurry, in oposite way a light find its way (due to diffraction and dispersion) and allows us to see more details of background and less details in a shadow. So we could in that case decide the basic values - when the shadow is casted from a solid object directly above - and the other values simply would be an alternation of these - like in the case of glass more degree of transparency. Do you think this could work well? I think shadows for an icon set should be consistent. Diana Fong wrote: > The shadow, quickly examined, is a sort of gradient with the darkest > (sometimes solid) color at one end (often closest/touching the object) > and a transition to transparent pixels at the other thus allowing the > sense of integration with the panel, background, and such. The > general guideline provided was to describe my approach of using a dark > gray as the starting point for the shadow's gradient. When creating > the initial icons I often found myself creating far too dark shadows > if I started with black. When creating several of these icons a day, > I easily found my shadows getting darker and darker. Thus starting > with a dark gray, instead of black, helped me take care of this > problem and thus my posted suggestion to other contributors. > What should the values be? > > Colors and shapes are relative. Artists should be encouraged to use > their artistic sense in determining relative colors, with the posted > palette as a base guideline. A color determined for one icon might > not work as well for another, thus the value added by artists who can > visually compensate and flexibly combine colors and shapes to create > pieces that work both as an individual icon and as part of the whole > set. An example of this is...system-search...the tilt of the object > requires darker shadows near the handle and a lighter shadow cast by > the glass itself. Compare this icon to any of the others that sit > directly on surface, such as applications-internet, the shadows for > those are slightly darker. > > With that said, I am not opposed to further clarifying, correcting, or > expanding the initial guidelines. With specific questions such as the > ones raised about Stars and Pluses, the guidelines can be made to be > more detailed and informative. This is an ongoing project. > Presenting works in progress, runs the risk of missing and inadequate > information. However, these can be constructively discussed, proposed, > and remedied. > > To address this specific issue, I still stand with my recommendation > of starting with a dark gray instead of black. Due to the blur aspect > of the shadow, it seemed somewhat obvious that the shadow would be > semitransparent...but this can be specifically added in the guidelines > for additional clarity. As for the exact value of dark gray...perhaps > Luya can propose (and Martin or others can confirm) a few Hex Values, > since the shadows on the emotion icons seem to be good starting > points. However, I would like to stress again, that these numbers > should really be used as references, allowing artists the flexibility > to tweak as appropriate from icon to icon. > > > Diana Fong > --- > Red Hat > Visual Designer | Desktop Group > > _______________________________________________ > Fedora-art-list mailing list > Fedora-art-list at redhat.com > http://www.redhat.com/mailman/listinfo/fedora-art-list > From dfong at redhat.com Fri Feb 16 20:47:35 2007 From: dfong at redhat.com (Diana Fong) Date: Fri, 16 Feb 2007 15:47:35 -0500 Subject: go-home echo icon concept In-Reply-To: <45D612FA.3010608@seznam.cz> References: <45CC4DD5.1090905@seznam.cz> <45D31B74.9020801@seznam.cz> <1171520861.45d3fd5d739bc@ssl.mecca.ca> <45D45C18.20201@seznam.cz> <45D466EA.9090303@webworks.se> <45D46DD4.3050000@seznam.cz> <45D58E8F.7030108@thefinalzone.com> <45D58FE8.8000603@seznam.cz> <45D59281.5020503@nicubunu.ro> <45D598D1.2050206@seznam.cz> <45D59CC9.9000106@nicubunu.ro> <45D5A821.6050006@seznam.cz> <45D60E59.3000505@redhat.com> <45D612FA.3010608@seznam.cz> Message-ID: <45D61867.8040903@redhat.com> Martin Sourada wrote: > Maybe we should at least consider whether the darkest color at the > first end should be solid or semitransparent. If it would be > semitranpsparent than the amount of lightness in that point could be > handled only by the transparency. As it is in real world - when the > object which casts the shadow is nearer than the shadow is darker and > less blurry, in oposite way a light find its way (due to diffraction > and dispersion) and allows us to see more details of background and > less details in a shadow. So we could in that case decide the basic > values - when the shadow is casted from a solid object directly above > - and the other values simply would be an alternation of these - like > in the case of glass more degree of transparency. Do you think this > could work well? I think shadows for an icon set should be consistent. Looking at various icons created in the past, it seems...*squints*...that the darkest color is semitransparent. This is not really that noticeable and some might not be semitransparent (but that could be fixed to fit the rule we come up with for consistency). So let's conclude that it is semitransparent. What then, are the cases and values? Also, what should be the opacity value of the darkest area? Care to take a first crack at breaking these down? Thanks, Diana Fong --- Red Hat Visual Designer | Desktop Group From martin.sourada at seznam.cz Fri Feb 16 21:28:16 2007 From: martin.sourada at seznam.cz (Martin Sourada) Date: Fri, 16 Feb 2007 22:28:16 +0100 Subject: go-home echo icon concept In-Reply-To: <45D61867.8040903@redhat.com> References: <45CC4DD5.1090905@seznam.cz> <45D31B74.9020801@seznam.cz> <1171520861.45d3fd5d739bc@ssl.mecca.ca> <45D45C18.20201@seznam.cz> <45D466EA.9090303@webworks.se> <45D46DD4.3050000@seznam.cz> <45D58E8F.7030108@thefinalzone.com> <45D58FE8.8000603@seznam.cz> <45D59281.5020503@nicubunu.ro> <45D598D1.2050206@seznam.cz> <45D59CC9.9000106@nicubunu.ro> <45D5A821.6050006@seznam.cz> <45D60E59.3000505@redhat.com> <45D612FA.3010608@seznam.cz> <45D61867.8040903@redhat.com> Message-ID: <45D621F0.2000404@seznam.cz> Teoretically, from the position of the imaginary light source we might guess, that it is time around noon. So the shadows - epsecially their opacity should reflect this. Thus they should not be very dark. Next, I would pick the one of the more"massive" icons (because it would cast more shadow than a smaller one) and choose the base values for it. The darkest would be nearest the place where the icon touches the imaginary ground. For that purpose, I think, could serve e.g. 'video-display'. But how to chose the best value for that particular icon? I think we could try different values of opacity and brightness (for start grey scale would serve well) against different backrounds and pick up that which works nicest with most of them - this should be the one that resembles most the behaviour of real shadow IMO. Than we should decide how much of the shape of the icon we want to save in its shadow. Looking at the icons I would suppose that only simplified outline. Finally I would choose how blurry we wont it to be - that has a lot to do with the shape preservation I think. In other cases the shadow should be more transparent and more blurry, but not much; the amount I would leave on artists. The colouring I would leave as it is suggested on wiki. I think, if we start with dark-grey or black(ish) colour values (aka $666666 and $333333) for the brightness and pick the desired opacity for them it might be the best, since these are on Echo Icon Pallette. Also the decision would thus simplify to choosing just one out of two colours and opacity for darkest shadow. Diana Fong napsal(a): > Looking at various icons created in the past, it > seems...*squints*...that the darkest color is semitransparent. This > is not really that noticeable and some might not be semitransparent > (but that could be fixed to fit the rule we come up with for > consistency). > So let's conclude that it is semitransparent. What then, are the > cases and values? Also, what should be the opacity value of the > darkest area? Care to take a first crack at breaking these down? > > > Thanks, > Diana Fong > --- > Red Hat > Visual Designer | Desktop Group > > _______________________________________________ > Fedora-art-list mailing list > Fedora-art-list at redhat.com > http://www.redhat.com/mailman/listinfo/fedora-art-list > From markg852 at hotmail.com Sat Feb 17 23:31:26 2007 From: markg852 at hotmail.com (Mark) Date: Sun, 18 Feb 2007 00:31:26 +0100 Subject: Proposal: Use Moodin for the KDE splash Message-ID: Hey, i`ve been looking here a few times every week and i`ve been watching the art updates and i saw that all the kde splashes made so far are in most cases ugly compared to the same splash that will be used for gnome now i was wondering.. why not use Moodin: http://www.kde-look.org/content/show.php?content=25705 with that you can atleast use the same image as with the gnome splash.. o well.. just let me know your thoughts about it.. and if you want to see a example where moodin is used.. download kubuntu it`s using moodin or a patched version of it. for the lazy men: http://shots.linuxquestions.org/?linux_distribution_sm=Kubuntu%207.04%20Alpha%204 please consider it.. that is less fedora modding for me when iinstall it ;) _________________________________________________________________ Probeer Live.com: je eigen persoonlijke opstartpagina met alleen de dingen die jij belangrijk vindt op ??n plek. http://www.live.com/getstarted -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From sundaram at fedoraproject.org Sun Feb 18 00:19:59 2007 From: sundaram at fedoraproject.org (Rahul Sundaram) Date: Sun, 18 Feb 2007 05:49:59 +0530 Subject: Proposal: Use Moodin for the KDE splash In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <45D79BAF.9010409@fedoraproject.org> Mark wrote: > Hey, > > i`ve been looking here a few times every week and i`ve been watching the > art updates and i saw that all the kde splashes made so far are in most > cases ugly compared to the same splash that will be used for gnome now i > was wondering.. why not use Moodin: > http://www.kde-look.org/content/show.php?content=25705 with that you can > atleast use the same image as with the gnome splash.. > > o well.. just let me know your thoughts about it.. and if you want to > see a example where moodin is used.. download kubuntu it`s using moodin > or a patched version of it. for the lazy men: > http://shots.linuxquestions.org/?linux_distribution_sm=Kubuntu%207.04%20Alpha%204 > > please consider it.. that is less fedora modding for me when iinstall it ;) > Thanks for the suggestion. Added to our KDE spec for Fedora 7 at http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Releases/FeatureFedoraKDE. The final implementation decisions are left to the folks working on it. Rahul From chitlesh at fedoraproject.org Sun Feb 18 02:00:05 2007 From: chitlesh at fedoraproject.org (Chitlesh GOORAH) Date: Sun, 18 Feb 2007 03:00:05 +0100 Subject: Proposal: Use Moodin for the KDE splash In-Reply-To: <45D79BAF.9010409@fedoraproject.org> References: <45D79BAF.9010409@fedoraproject.org> Message-ID: <13dbfe4f0702171800k78310f74q8bede82fde860f9b@mail.gmail.com> On 2/18/07, Rahul Sundaram wrote: > Thanks for the suggestion. Added to our KDE spec for Fedora 7 at > http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Releases/FeatureFedoraKDE. The final > implementation decisions are left to the folks working on it. > Moodin is actually being reviewed: https://bugzilla.redhat.com/bugzilla/show_bug.cgi?id=221015 Unfortunately, the reviewer is waiting for a sponsor since it is his first package :) To be real honest if you want quality, don't consider kubuntu's moodin, but have a look at Linspire's instead :). Chitlesh -- http://clunixchit.blogspot.com From chitlesh at fedoraproject.org Sun Feb 18 02:02:11 2007 From: chitlesh at fedoraproject.org (Chitlesh GOORAH) Date: Sun, 18 Feb 2007 03:02:11 +0100 Subject: Proposal: Use Moodin for the KDE splash In-Reply-To: <13dbfe4f0702171800k78310f74q8bede82fde860f9b@mail.gmail.com> References: <45D79BAF.9010409@fedoraproject.org> <13dbfe4f0702171800k78310f74q8bede82fde860f9b@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <13dbfe4f0702171802g3ac583adq69a23ed970a8ad4b@mail.gmail.com> On 2/18/07, Chitlesh GOORAH wrote: > On 2/18/07, Rahul Sundaram wrote: > Unfortunately, the reviewer is waiting for a sponsor since it is his > first package :) typo: s/reviewer/packager :) -- http://clunixchit.blogspot.com From nicu_fedora at nicubunu.ro Mon Feb 19 07:54:08 2007 From: nicu_fedora at nicubunu.ro (Nicu Buculei) Date: Mon, 19 Feb 2007 09:54:08 +0200 Subject: Artwork conversations In-Reply-To: <1171651103.3394.52.camel@localhost.localdomain> References: <1171651103.3394.52.camel@localhost.localdomain> Message-ID: <45D957A0.5000900@nicubunu.ro> Matthias Clasen wrote: > > I'm not going to reply to the many long emails in this conversation > in detail, but I'd like to respond to this quote, which I think is > indicative of some of the misunderstandings that have happened: > > "[all we can do is] sit back and each 6 months when a new version is > released act as fanboys and worship the great powers that brought us the > graphics" > > No, not at all. Instead find a channel to get your art in people's > hands. That was my quote and I exaggerated a bit to make my point clearer. Of course I have an alternative channel, my personal website have a section with various Fedora artwork and it receive a healthy amount of traffic and noticeable search engine rankings [1]. Of course the default matters but I also think some alternative channel should be *inside* the project, otherwise it may be considered a fork and I think forking the community should be done only as the last resort. > Focusing narrowly on the default, branded theme that ships with the next > Fedora release is probably not the best way to achieve that. Also, > striving for the overarching, unified experience "from cradle to grave" > or rather from anaconda to background makes it much harder than it has > to be. Many of the pieces of a "full branding kit" are seen only once > (if at all) by our users (anaconda, firstboot, etc). On the flip side, > the parts that people see all the time on their desktops (gtk theme, > window manager theme, background, icons) are easy to package up and get > into Fedora as a standalone package. In my opinion, and I don't talk now the first time about it, the holy grail is something like "Background Channels" [2], allowing anyone to publish and anyone to use and I think such a service should be hosted by Fedora. In the past I even suggested ccHost [3] as an engine for serving such content. > Another point is that almost all the proposals that have been discussed > on this list are heavily branded. The heavy branding in FC5 (and to a > lesser extent, FC6) was necessary to introduce the new Fedora logo. > But I think that longer-term, it would be much better to produce themes > that are less branded and can stand on their own because of their > quality as a theme, not because they have the necessary branding to > become the default Fedora theme. And we could really use more > high-quality non-branded themes, e.g. to make it easier for those who > create derived distributions and need to strip out the Fedora branding. Yes, all the proposals are heavily branded but at the same time it seems the majority of contributors agree about reducing branding. What can I see about derived distributions? The large majority of the proposals (not the "winning" one) have available the source code as SVG, so is easy to customize and remove branding. Also, I would *love* to see makers of the derived distros coming to the list and asking for customized graphics. But the ultimate form of the branding is not the logo usage but the usage of the Fedora blue, so my feeling is that a derived distro should better use a completely revamped theme for a strong identity. [1] - http://picasaweb.google.com/nicubunu/Screenshots/photo#5033134774425278466 http://picasaweb.google.com/nicubunu/Screenshots/photo#5033134774425278482 [2] - http://www.gnome.org/~clarkbw/blog/GNOME/background_channels [3] -http://wiki.creativecommons.org/CcHost -- nicu Cool Fedora wallpapers: http://fedora.nicubunu.ro/wallpapers/ Open Clip Art Library: http://www.openclipart.org my Fedora stuff: http://fedora.nicubunu.ro From rdieter at math.unl.edu Mon Feb 19 12:48:01 2007 From: rdieter at math.unl.edu (Rex Dieter) Date: Mon, 19 Feb 2007 06:48:01 -0600 Subject: Proposal: Use Moodin for the KDE splash References: <45D79BAF.9010409@fedoraproject.org> <13dbfe4f0702171800k78310f74q8bede82fde860f9b@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: Chitlesh GOORAH wrote: > On 2/18/07, Rahul Sundaram wrote: > >> Thanks for the suggestion. Added to our KDE spec for Fedora 7 at >> http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Releases/FeatureFedoraKDE. The final >> implementation decisions are left to the folks working on it. >> > > Moodin is actually being reviewed: > https://bugzilla.redhat.com/bugzilla/show_bug.cgi?id=221015 > > Unfortunately, the reviewer is waiting for a sponsor since it is his > first package :) If we're serious about using moodin, I'd strongly prefer such an important piece be co-maintained by some fedora/kde veteran packager. -- Rex From chitlesh at fedoraproject.org Mon Feb 19 17:49:31 2007 From: chitlesh at fedoraproject.org (Chitlesh GOORAH) Date: Mon, 19 Feb 2007 18:49:31 +0100 Subject: Proposal: Use Moodin for the KDE splash In-Reply-To: References: <45D79BAF.9010409@fedoraproject.org> <13dbfe4f0702171800k78310f74q8bede82fde860f9b@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <13dbfe4f0702190949n42d96f45rbaf85109ada789ee@mail.gmail.com> On 2/19/07, Rex Dieter wrote: > If we're serious about using moodin, We have to talk to FedoraArtwork people in order to have the first official moodin type splash screen for F7. > I'd strongly prefer such an important > piece be co-maintained by some fedora/kde veteran packager. I can help to co-maintain it. However It would be nice to complete the review first. Chitlesh -- http://clunixchit.blogspot.com From chitlesh at fedoraproject.org Mon Feb 19 17:58:04 2007 From: chitlesh at fedoraproject.org (Chitlesh GOORAH) Date: Mon, 19 Feb 2007 18:58:04 +0100 Subject: KDE Themes In-Reply-To: <13dbfe4f0701311447k4aabe1c4m54002307690b0450@mail.gmail.com> References: <20070131124938.AC953734B9@hormel.redhat.com> <1170282691.3815.7.camel@localhost.localdomain> <13dbfe4f0701311447k4aabe1c4m54002307690b0450@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <13dbfe4f0702190958u51721e6ax1b5d158a7752e42a@mail.gmail.com> On 1/31/07, Chitlesh GOORAH wrote: > On 1/31/07, John Baer wrote: > > Is there something specific you would like to see? > > https://www.redhat.com/archives/fedora-art-list/2006-December/msg00206.html > > Chitlesh > -- > http://clunixchit.blogspot.com > Anyone has already started working on this or any other items ? Chitlesh -- http://clunixchit.blogspot.com From dfong at redhat.com Mon Feb 19 20:11:51 2007 From: dfong at redhat.com (Diana Fong) Date: Mon, 19 Feb 2007 15:11:51 -0500 Subject: go-home echo icon concept In-Reply-To: <45D621F0.2000404@seznam.cz> References: <45CC4DD5.1090905@seznam.cz> <45D31B74.9020801@seznam.cz> <1171520861.45d3fd5d739bc@ssl.mecca.ca> <45D45C18.20201@seznam.cz> <45D466EA.9090303@webworks.se> <45D46DD4.3050000@seznam.cz> <45D58E8F.7030108@thefinalzone.com> <45D58FE8.8000603@seznam.cz> <45D59281.5020503@nicubunu.ro> <45D598D1.2050206@seznam.cz> <45D59CC9.9000106@nicubunu.ro> <45D5A821.6050006@seznam.cz> <45D60E59.3000505@redhat.com> <45D612FA.3010608@seznam.cz> <45D61867.8040903@redhat.com> <45D621F0.2000404@seznam.cz> Message-ID: <45DA0487.9020501@redhat.com> Martin Sourada wrote: > Teoretically, from the position of the imaginary light source we might > guess, that it is time around noon. So the shadows - epsecially their > opacity should reflect this. Thus they should not be very dark. Next, > I would pick the one of the more"massive" icons (because it would cast > more shadow than a smaller one) and choose the base values for it. The > darkest would be nearest the place where the icon touches the > imaginary ground. For that purpose, I think, could serve e.g. > 'video-display'. But how to chose the best value for that particular > icon? I think we could try different values of opacity and brightness > (for start grey scale would serve well) against different backrounds > and pick up that which works nicest with most of them - this should be > the one that resembles most the behaviour of real shadow IMO. Than we > should decide how much of the shape of the icon we want to save in its > shadow. Looking at the icons I would suppose that only simplified > outline. Finally I would choose how blurry we wont it to be - that has > a lot to do with the shape preservation I think. In other cases the > shadow should be more transparent and more blurry, but not much; the > amount I would leave on artists. The colouring I would leave as it is > suggested on wiki. > > I think, if we start with dark-grey or black(ish) colour values (aka > $666666 and $333333) for the brightness and pick the desired opacity > for them it might be the best, since these are on Echo Icon Pallette. > Also the decision would thus simplify to choosing just one out of two > colours and opacity for darkest shadow. As per your suggestion, I looked at the various shadows and here are some numbers that might help...for 'video-display' I used #2D2D2D at 75% as the darkest. That color is closest to #333333. For objects that do not touch the ground (as with 'list-remove') the opacity is closer to 15% if still using #333333. Of course, we can change these if it's found not to be useful when tested against the various backgrounds. As in my examples, I've only tested against white (which I took to account for the light color of panels and window browsers) and a dark gray (which accounts for darker wallpapers and possibly dark window borders). Obviously, a more conclusive test could be conducted here if someone would like to take it on. I also include an additional shadow to overlapping objects, such as 'drive-optical.' This is to create a bit of depth, while also help to visually separate/identify the overlapping objects. The color for this also varies depending on how dark or light the back object is. However, a starting point could also be #333333 or more accurately #2D2D2D at 50%-75% blur size of 2-3px. As I usually insert the shadows after creating the vector icon shapes and so I do not have the blur info. As evident with the existing icons, I've not tried to preserve the exact shape of the icon in the shadow. For the action icons, I've gone with more of a simple shadow below the object. With other icons, the shadow does take on a very skewed, simplified outline of the shape which often does not reflect the shape of the top of the object. Example...the shadow of 'audio-input-microphone' is mainly of the base, with only a slight hint of the top microphone. Diana Fong --- Red Hat Visual Designer | Desktop Group From nicu_fedora at nicubunu.ro Tue Feb 20 06:59:15 2007 From: nicu_fedora at nicubunu.ro (Nicu Buculei) Date: Tue, 20 Feb 2007 08:59:15 +0200 Subject: go-home echo icon concept In-Reply-To: <45DA0487.9020501@redhat.com> References: <45CC4DD5.1090905@seznam.cz> <45D31B74.9020801@seznam.cz> <1171520861.45d3fd5d739bc@ssl.mecca.ca> <45D45C18.20201@seznam.cz> <45D466EA.9090303@webworks.se> <45D46DD4.3050000@seznam.cz> <45D58E8F.7030108@thefinalzone.com> <45D58FE8.8000603@seznam.cz> <45D59281.5020503@nicubunu.ro> <45D598D1.2050206@seznam.cz> <45D59CC9.9000106@nicubunu.ro> <45D5A821.6050006@seznam.cz> <45D60E59.3000505@redhat.com> <45D612FA.3010608@seznam.cz> <45D61867.8040903@redhat.com> <45D621F0.2000404@seznam.cz> <45DA0487.9020501@redhat.com> Message-ID: <45DA9C43.8090600@nicubunu.ro> Diana Fong wrote: > > I also include an additional shadow to overlapping objects, such as > 'drive-optical.' This is to create a bit of depth, while also help to > visually separate/identify the overlapping objects. The color for this > also varies depending on how dark or light the back object is. However, > a starting point could also be #333333 or more accurately #2D2D2D at > 50%-75% blur size of 2-3px. > > > As I usually insert the shadows after creating the vector icon shapes > and so I do not have the blur info. Just as an example, for 48x48 px GNOME icons is suggested a shadow added with GIMP with 4 pixel distance, 4 pixel blur, 40% opacity - http://developer.gnome.org/projects/gup/hig/2.0/icons-design.html That is a shadow I personally feel a little too light. -- nicu Cool Fedora wallpapers: http://fedora.nicubunu.ro/wallpapers/ Open Clip Art Library: http://www.openclipart.org my Fedora stuff: http://fedora.nicubunu.ro From stickster at gmail.com Wed Feb 21 12:51:58 2007 From: stickster at gmail.com (Paul W. Frields) Date: Wed, 21 Feb 2007 07:51:58 -0500 Subject: Figuring out the mission Message-ID: <1172062318.8101.36.camel@localhost.localdomain> Hello Artwork folks, The Fedora Project Board has been keeping an eye on developments in the Artwork subproject for a while now. We know that there's some confusion, and maybe trepidation, about the direction being taken for some of the initiatives under the Artwork umbrella. We also know that people are wondering, "Where does the community stand in this effort?" The Board has been discussing this in its meetings for some time, and we have been stumping hard for the community's role in Fedora art. The frustration that some of the community members have expressed is understandable, and we've tried to carry your concerns to all the parties involved. But unfortunately, we haven't been completely successful, and to make a long story short, we've had to concede the default release theme work to the Desktop group inside Red Hat. This decision is based on a number of factors, not the least of which is the involvement of thorny issues of trademark, branding, and the polish demands from both inside and outside the Fedora Project. We're fortunate that these graphics are being handled by one of Red Hat's skilled desktop artists, Diana Fong, who used the ideas generated by the community to jump-start a fresh look for Fedora 7. But the default theme is not all there is to the Artwork project. There are many things left to do, including the Echo icon set. Redesign and new art is needed for the Wiki, infrastructure applications, the "Some Day Soon" Plone site, and so forth. In addition, Fedora is not limited to just the default release art. As part of the initiative to give users the ability to spin their own distributions built on Fedora, we'd like contributor art to be able to function as a drop-in RPM package replacement for the default release art. We are determined to give the Artwork community whatever help we can provide to get their contributions into Fedora, included in the distribution for anyone who wants to use it. As a Board member, I agreed in yesterday's meeting to take responsibility for spearheading this part of the work. To ensure that I do this as well as possible, and that your ideas are heard, understood, and fairly represented, I invite your comments, criticisms, and ideas. Thanks to all of you for the hard work you continue to do with Fedora, and I look forward to hearing from you! -- Paul W. Frields, RHCE http://paul.frields.org/ gpg fingerprint: 3DA6 A0AC 6D58 FEC4 0233 5906 ACDB C937 BD11 3717 Fedora Project: http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/PaulWFrields irc.freenode.net: stickster @ #fedora-docs, #fedora-devel, #fredlug -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: signature.asc Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 189 bytes Desc: This is a digitally signed message part URL: From luya_tfz at thefinalzone.com Thu Feb 22 05:47:56 2007 From: luya_tfz at thefinalzone.com (Luya Tshimbalanga) Date: Thu, 22 Feb 2007 00:47:56 -0500 Subject: Comments In-Reply-To: <1172062318.8101.36.camel@localhost.localdomain> References: <1172062318.8101.36.camel@localhost.localdomain> Message-ID: <1172123276.45dd2e8ceec3b@ssl.mecca.ca> Quoting "Paul W. Frields" : > Hello Artwork folks, > > The Fedora Project Board has been keeping an eye on developments in the > Artwork subproject for a while now. We know that there's some > confusion, and maybe trepidation, about the direction being taken for > some of the initiatives under the Artwork umbrella. We also know that > people are wondering, "Where does the community stand in this effort?" > > The Board has been discussing this in its meetings for some time, and we > have been stumping hard for the community's role in Fedora art. The > frustration that some of the community members have expressed is > understandable, and we've tried to carry your concerns to all the > parties involved. But unfortunately, we haven't been completely > successful, and to make a long story short, we've had to concede the > default release theme work to the Desktop group inside Red Hat. I think the issue was probably the lack of communications between some community members when it comes to the artwork. Perhaps some of them were frustrated with the lack of feedback with the ideas. With the lack of leadership, this issue has worsened to the point one of members complained about open source problem. > This decision is based on a number of factors, not the least of which is > the involvement of thorny issues of trademark, branding, and the polish > demands from both inside and outside the Fedora Project. We're > fortunate that these graphics are being handled by one of Red Hat's > skilled desktop artists, Diana Fong, who used the ideas generated by the > community to jump-start a fresh look for Fedora 7. What happened was the lack of progress status. There were no indication if Round 2 ended and Round 3 began (it seems it is the current stage). Although I have no problem on letting the in-house team doing the artwork, one should make a clarification on the artwork progression and goal. > We are determined to give the Artwork community whatever help we can > provide to get their contributions into Fedora, included in the > distribution for anyone who wants to use it. As a Board member, I > agreed in yesterday's meeting to take responsibility for spearheading > this part of the work. To ensure that I do this as well as possible, > and that your ideas are heard, understood, and fairly represented, I > invite your comments, criticisms, and ideas. > One should start about leadership since Marin's departure. -- Luya Tshimbalanga Fedora Project contributor http://www.fedoraproject.org/wiki/LuyaTshimbalanga From nicu_fedora at nicubunu.ro Thu Feb 22 06:46:50 2007 From: nicu_fedora at nicubunu.ro (Nicu Buculei) Date: Thu, 22 Feb 2007 08:46:50 +0200 Subject: Comments In-Reply-To: <1172123276.45dd2e8ceec3b@ssl.mecca.ca> References: <1172062318.8101.36.camel@localhost.localdomain> <1172123276.45dd2e8ceec3b@ssl.mecca.ca> Message-ID: <45DD3C5A.9060101@nicubunu.ro> Luya Tshimbalanga wrote: > > What happened was the lack of progress status. There were no indication if Round > 2 ended and Round 3 began (it seems it is the current stage). Although I have > no problem on letting the in-house team doing the artwork, one should make a > clarification on the artwork progression and goal. The entire process of "rounds" is not needed anymore as "we've had to concede the default release theme work to the Desktop group inside Red Hat". In fact, and this is a major source of frustration, the process was silently dropped a long time ago and we were let to know only now. -- nicu Cool Fedora wallpapers: http://fedora.nicubunu.ro/wallpapers/ Open Clip Art Library: http://www.openclipart.org my Fedora stuff: http://fedora.nicubunu.ro From nicu_fedora at nicubunu.ro Thu Feb 22 12:56:52 2007 From: nicu_fedora at nicubunu.ro (Nicu Buculei) Date: Thu, 22 Feb 2007 14:56:52 +0200 Subject: alternate logo In-Reply-To: <1172062318.8101.36.camel@localhost.localdomain> References: <1172062318.8101.36.camel@localhost.localdomain> Message-ID: <45DD9314.9090405@nicubunu.ro> Paul W. Frields wrote: > > The > frustration that some of the community members have expressed is > understandable, and we've tried to carry your concerns to all the > parties involved. But unfortunately, we haven't been completely > successful, and to make a long story short, we've had to concede the > default release theme work to the Desktop group inside Red Hat. The main leverage used by the RH Desktop Team to kick us out was the fear that the community will incorrectly use the trademarks and the logo [1] so I call the people unhappy with this policy at a brainstorm to create an *alternate* logo and use it in our *alternative* works and produce better desktop theming which I hope will please the users and shame RHDT. [1] - http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Board/Meetings/2007-01-16?action=AttachFile&do=get&target=fedora-board-20070116.txt -- nicu Cool Fedora wallpapers: http://fedora.nicubunu.ro/wallpapers/ Open Clip Art Library: http://www.openclipart.org my Fedora stuff: http://fedora.nicubunu.ro From mclasen at redhat.com Thu Feb 22 13:58:58 2007 From: mclasen at redhat.com (Matthias Clasen) Date: Thu, 22 Feb 2007 08:58:58 -0500 Subject: alternate logo In-Reply-To: <45DD9314.9090405@nicubunu.ro> References: <1172062318.8101.36.camel@localhost.localdomain> <45DD9314.9090405@nicubunu.ro> Message-ID: <1172152738.3558.1.camel@dhcp83-33.boston.redhat.com> On Thu, 2007-02-22 at 14:56 +0200, Nicu Buculei wrote: > Paul W. Frields wrote: > > > > The > > frustration that some of the community members have expressed is > > understandable, and we've tried to carry your concerns to all the > > parties involved. But unfortunately, we haven't been completely > > successful, and to make a long story short, we've had to concede the > > default release theme work to the Desktop group inside Red Hat. > > The main leverage used by the RH Desktop Team to kick us out was the > fear that the community will incorrectly use the trademarks and the logo > [1] so I call the people unhappy with this policy at a brainstorm to > create an *alternate* logo and use it in our *alternative* works and > produce better desktop theming which I hope will please the users and > shame RHDT. How about you just leave out the darn logo and produce high-quality themes that are usable without branding ? And there is no need to shame anybody here, imo. From uno at webworks.se Thu Feb 22 14:20:34 2007 From: uno at webworks.se (Uno Engborg) Date: Thu, 22 Feb 2007 15:20:34 +0100 Subject: alternate logo In-Reply-To: <45DD9314.9090405@nicubunu.ro> References: <1172062318.8101.36.camel@localhost.localdomain> <45DD9314.9090405@nicubunu.ro> Message-ID: <45DDA6B2.2080306@webworks.se> Nicu Buculei skrev: > Paul W. Frields wrote: >> >> The >> frustration that some of the community members have expressed is >> understandable, and we've tried to carry your concerns to all the >> parties involved. But unfortunately, we haven't been completely >> successful, and to make a long story short, we've had to concede the >> default release theme work to the Desktop group inside Red Hat. > > The main leverage used by the RH Desktop Team to kick us out was the > fear that the community will incorrectly use the trademarks and the > logo [1] so I call the people unhappy with this policy at a brainstorm > to create an *alternate* logo and use it in our *alternative* works > and produce better desktop theming which I hope will please the users > and shame RHDT. > > [1] - > http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Board/Meetings/2007-01-16?action=AttachFile&do=get&target=fedora-board-20070116.txt > > I would say, leave out the logo alltogether. The less branding, the more room for artistic freedom. Putting shame where shame belongs in public will not help. Revenge is always counter productive. Regards Uno Engborg -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: smime.p7s Type: application/x-pkcs7-signature Size: 3309 bytes Desc: S/MIME Cryptographic Signature URL: From david at fubar.dk Thu Feb 22 18:20:18 2007 From: david at fubar.dk (David Zeuthen) Date: Thu, 22 Feb 2007 13:20:18 -0500 Subject: Comments In-Reply-To: <45DD3C5A.9060101@nicubunu.ro> References: <1172062318.8101.36.camel@localhost.localdomain> <1172123276.45dd2e8ceec3b@ssl.mecca.ca> <45DD3C5A.9060101@nicubunu.ro> Message-ID: <1172168418.2557.24.camel@zelda.fubar.dk> On Thu, 2007-02-22 at 08:46 +0200, Nicu Buculei wrote: > The entire process of "rounds" is not needed anymore as "we've had to > concede the default release theme work to the Desktop group inside Red Hat". Well, the thing is that someone made promises ("default theme") to the participants on this list and these promises weren't kept for reasons well explained elsewhere. Personally I think the idea of focusing on the default theme and voting for it was wrong from day one. If you recall I made a lot of noise to that effect in December. As Matthias so eloquently put it, the focus should perhaps rather be in creating artwork, get it packaged up and stop worrying about competition induced by what is going to be default. If your art is _that_ good then get it in the distro and let it speak for itself. Mentioned elsewhere we can improve parts of the OS so it's easier to create theme packages. FWIW, I've also observed bad vibes, zealotism in fact (if such a word exists), in seeing how people have been trying to force others to adapt their workflow and choice of tools and accusations of people being "not open source" if someone didn't caved in and did what the most verbal people on this people felt was right. And it's rude to push your way upon others, at least where I come from. You may want to look at the whole BitKeeper story in the Linux kernel for comparison. The morale is that people have different ways of working and that people are different and have different values. As a community we should respect that people are different. > In fact, and this is a major source of frustration, the process was > silently dropped a long time ago and we were let to know only now. I agree the whole way this was communicated too late. That's bad. In closing, an old commercial for chocolate comes to mind. There's these three guys standing at a table making filled chocolate. Two of the guys keep complaining about everything from how management is treating them and how everything sucks. The third one gets so annoyed that he yells out "Can't we just focus on making chocolate!". I'd like to do the same here - so here's to hoping that all of us can leave this thing behind and start focusing on the artwork. Because that's what it's all about. And I, for one, is dying to see pretty work that I can easily install via yum. Thanks. (Perhaps this comes across as a flame to some people. It's not meant to be. It's just observations from my end. Hope it's somewhat useful though.) David From baerjj at gmail.com Thu Feb 22 20:03:46 2007 From: baerjj at gmail.com (John Baer) Date: Thu, 22 Feb 2007 15:03:46 -0500 Subject: Figuring out the mission (Paul W. Frields) Message-ID: <484ace5d0702221203u4ba77ad2v6728caf1ee297b3@mail.gmail.com> Hello Paul, The subject of your email is very appropriate but the content really doesn't shine much light on the issue or provide comfort to the team. Let me start by stating the obvious. Prior to February 13th the Art Team was a fully functioning Open Source effort; vibrant, active, and filled with discussion. Effort in progress was posted to the wiki and feed back was solicited from the community. Checking the pulse of the team of late I would say its pretty much flat lined with little or no activity as a direct result of the actions from Red Hat. > This decision is based on a number of factors, not the least of which is > the involvement of thorny issues of trademark, branding, and the polish > demands from both inside and outside the Fedora Project. Why did Red Hat feel the need to steal what we already agreed to give them? Other than the fact we started earlier, the processed was the same used for fedora core 6 and to my knowledge a stated concern was never brought forward. Assuming the above issues are real, why didn't someone from Red Hat post them to the list server?. Was there really a need to secretly take the effort of the team off line and continue development behind behind closed doors? > But unfortunately, we haven't been completely successful, and to make a long story short, > we've had to concede the default release theme work to the Desktop group inside Red > Hat. Is fedora sponsored by Red Hat or owned by Red Hat? Under what authority does fedora operate and what authority does Red Hat have over fedora? The decision to pull back the artwork effort was completely unilateral. The impression I received from folks who occasionally posted messages to the art team list server was to push the envelope. IMO the actions of Red Hat in this matter is a direct reflection of the "golden rule of business". That is to say "he who has the gold, rules". > But the default theme is not all there is to the Artwork project. There are many things left to > do, including the Echo icon set. Redesign and new art is needed for the Wiki, infrastructure > applications, the "Some Day Soon" Plone site, and so forth. In addition, Fedora is not > limited to just the default release art. +1 Does Red Hat really support open source or is it just lip service? I agree there is much more to do but the question now becomes why? If open source doesn't work for fc7 default, why would it work for anything else? IMO a three alarm fire bell should be sounding loudly across the fedora community as the message is clearly who will be next? > In addition, Fedora is not limited to just the default release art. As part of the initiative to > give users the ability to spin their own distributions built on Fedora, we'd like contributor art > to be able to function as a drop-in RPM package replacement for the default release art. Second fiddle has always been a choice. Users have always had the ability to change artwork to meet their personal desires. If this was the your reward for the concession then you didn't get much. > To ensure that I do this as well as possible, and that your ideas are heard, understood, and > fairly represented, I invite your comments, criticisms, and ideas. If you bring a problem to the table, bring a solution. IMO Paul, the fedora art-team is all but dead unless real changes are made. Red Hat has not conducted itself with the values of equality, love, integrity, excellence, inclusion, or teamwork. When this value system breaks down so does trust. As far as I know the development of the default artwork continues in a vacuum and Red Hat should understand the risk of this type of effort. So here are my suggestions on moving forward. 1. Define in very clear terms what authority Red Hat has over Fedora. Is it sponsorship or is it ownership? 2. Bring additional structure to the process. I've jotted down my thoughts here. http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/JohnBaer/ArtProcess 3. If fedora is going to be open source then fedora needs to do open source. Bring the default artwork back to the team and assign Diana as the project lead. It's always been Diana's call on the default and I would expect that role to continue. 4. Start rebuilding trust with an apology from the Red Hat desktop team posted to the list server. 5. Re-craft the art team's default wiki page to better communicate its purpose and it's relationship to other teams such as marketing and infrastructure. John -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From david at fubar.dk Thu Feb 22 20:21:18 2007 From: david at fubar.dk (David Zeuthen) Date: Thu, 22 Feb 2007 15:21:18 -0500 Subject: Figuring out the mission (Paul W. Frields) In-Reply-To: <484ace5d0702221203u4ba77ad2v6728caf1ee297b3@mail.gmail.com> References: <484ace5d0702221203u4ba77ad2v6728caf1ee297b3@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <1172175678.2557.44.camel@zelda.fubar.dk> Hi John, Maybe this write-up by Jef is useful for you to read https://www.redhat.com/archives/fedora-devel-list/2007-January/msg00176.html since I think you're confused about what open source means (you seem to equate it with democracy). Anyway, I'm going to step out of this thread for a bit... David From stickster at gmail.com Fri Feb 23 02:11:29 2007 From: stickster at gmail.com (Paul W. Frields) Date: Thu, 22 Feb 2007 21:11:29 -0500 Subject: Figuring out the mission In-Reply-To: <484ace5d0702221203u4ba77ad2v6728caf1ee297b3@mail.gmail.com> References: <484ace5d0702221203u4ba77ad2v6728caf1ee297b3@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <1172196689.30791.64.camel@localhost.localdomain> I've removed my name from the subject line, since I'm not the subject being discussed here. No offense meant, no harm done. On Thu, 2007-02-22 at 15:03 -0500, John Baer wrote: > Hello Paul, > > The subject of your email is very appropriate but the content really > doesn't shine much light on the issue or provide comfort to the team. I simply wanted to open a discussion about "What can/should we do?" > Let me start by stating the obvious. Prior to February 13th the Art > Team was a fully functioning Open Source effort; vibrant, active, and > filled with discussion. Effort in progress was posted to the wiki and > feed back was solicited from the community. > > Checking the pulse of the team of late I would say its pretty much > flat lined with little or no activity as a direct result of the > actions from Red Hat. Is that a conscious decision of people not to participate, or are they just holding back based on confusion? Pardon my eternal optimism, but every day's a chance to turn that around. > > This decision is based on a number of factors, not the least of > which is > > the involvement of thorny issues of trademark, branding, and the > polish > > demands from both inside and outside the Fedora Project. > > Why did Red Hat feel the need to steal what we already agreed to give > them? > > Other than the fact we started earlier, the processed was the same > used for fedora core 6 and to my knowledge a stated concern was never > brought forward. Assuming the above issues are real, why didn't > someone from Red Hat post them to the list server?. Was there really a > need to secretly take the effort of the team off line and continue > development behind behind closed doors? You're asking me questions I have no way to answer other than what I've told you. I don't work for Red Hat, and I haven't talked with the people in question. I can tell you with all sincerity that Max and Greg tried very hard to get the Desktop team to either (1) fully engage the Artwork community, or (2) engage the Board with a discussion of where they thought a line should be drawn for that engagement, and why. > > But unfortunately, we haven't been completely successful, and to > make a long story short, > we've had to concede the default release > theme work to the Desktop group inside Red > > Hat. > > Is fedora sponsored by Red Hat or owned by Red Hat? Red Hat pays the majority of the bills and has a substantial interest in what happens with the Project. That being said, there is no Fedora without the community. Fedora is more than just a bunch of software, it's also an experiment in what can be done in an open source community. Experiments are sometimes wildly successful, and sometimes, well, not so much. It's my hope -- and I think I speak for everyone on the Board -- that this one can find an avenue of success despite recent setbacks. > Under what authority does fedora operate and what authority does Red > Hat have over fedora? The decision to pull back the artwork effort was > completely unilateral. The impression I received from folks who > occasionally posted messages to the art team list server was to push > the envelope. IMO the actions of Red Hat in this matter is a direct > reflection of the "golden rule of business". That is to say "he who > has the gold, rules". I'm not going to argue with you about motive, but the effect was definitely chilling. > > But the default theme is not all there is to the Artwork project. > There are many things left to > do, including the Echo icon set. > Redesign and new art is needed for the Wiki, infrastructure > > applications, the "Some Day Soon" Plone site, and so forth. In > addition, Fedora is not > > limited to just the default release art. > > +1 > > Does Red Hat really support open source or is it just lip service? OK, let's not engage in hyperbole, please, it's really counterproductive, and in this case just plain silly. Let's focus on ways for the Artwork project to be successful. I have some suggestions down the page a bit. > I agree there is much more to do but the question now becomes why? If > open source doesn't work for fc7 default, why would it work for > anything else? IMO a three alarm fire bell should be sounding loudly > across the fedora community as the message is clearly who will be > next? Things not working in Artwork right now don't encompass every other part of the project. For example, in the Docs Project we are having what I think are substantial (and occasionally wild) successes. Likewise for Extras, which has literally changed the workings of Fedora, much for the better in a lot of people's opinions, both inside and outside Red Hat. > > In addition, Fedora is not limited to just the default release art. > As part of the initiative to > > give users the ability to spin their own distributions built on > Fedora, we'd like contributor art > to be able to function as a > drop-in RPM package replacement for the default release art. > > Second fiddle has always been a choice. > > Users have always had the ability to change artwork to meet their > personal desires. If this was the your reward for the concession then > you didn't get much. Well, I was trying to salve hurt feelings here, but I can see that didn't work too well. I agree it's not really a concession at all, but I'm not looking to the Desktop team for validation. They've done good work, I'm just not satisfied that it's in a community spirit. On the other hand, without the help of highly skilled artists, I don't see that particular avenue as really being worth the effort. As I said, there are other things to do. > > To ensure that I do this as well as possible, and that your ideas > are heard, understood, and > fairly represented, I invite your > comments, criticisms, and ideas. > > If you bring a problem to the table, bring a solution. I have suggestions too, but I'm not going to pile everything at once into a heavy-handed missive that might stifle other ideas. Thanks for contributing yours below, after which I will be happy to state mine. [...snip...] > So here are my suggestions on moving forward. > > 1. Define in very clear terms what authority Red Hat has over Fedora. > Is it sponsorship or is it ownership? The Fedora Project Board has authority over Fedora when it comes to project governance, formation, and continuance. Red Hat owns trademarks, branding, and for now, the majority of the purse strings. Let me be very clear about this, speaking now as a Board member and not just as a fellow Fedora community member: We are attempting to salvage the Artwork project from what otherwise would be dissolution. I am trying to enlist your help and the help of others who want to see the Artwork project contribute value to Fedora and to FOSS. If we fail again, it is not likely this particular subproject will survive. That will *not* mean the end of Fedora as a whole, although certainly many people, including me, will be disappointed by it. > 2. Bring additional structure to the process. I've jotted down my > thoughts here. > > http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/JohnBaer/ArtProcess This is good, and much of it flows from the Board's project policy which has been in place for some time: http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/DefiningProjects Do we have any idea how many active contributors are in Artwork at this time? Is it enough to warrant a steering committee? Most of the major subprojects have one. Needless bureaucracy can be stifling, but if more governance is necessary to track schedules, we should move forward with that. I'd bet there are multiple opinions on this topic... > 3. If fedora is going to be open source then fedora needs to do open > source. Bring the default artwork back to the team and assign Diana as > the project lead. It's always been Diana's call on the default and I > would expect that role to continue. I would hope Diana feels welcome and empowered to lead the Artwork group for that initiative. She works for Red Hat, and I have no absolute authority over her. I encourage her to step in with *HER* solution for this particular issue. I cannot and will not, however, waste time with issues that Max and Greg have already tried their best to resolve, however unhappy anyone is with the result. > 4. Start rebuilding trust with an apology from the Red Hat desktop > team posted to the list server. You're talking to the wrong person again. > 5. Re-craft the art team's default wiki page to better communicate its > purpose and it's relationship to other teams such as marketing and > infrastructure. We all have edit rights; once there's an agreement on the answers, I'm all for it. Now, here are some more suggestions for directions that I think are worthwhile for Artwork. Remember how you said to bring some solutions? Here you go: * Dispatch teams, where one or more artists work with a specific group to fill an artwork need, such as the Infrastructure or Website folks for web apps or the wiki, Marketing for posters and other paper-type distribution, Docs for publication styles.... Requests could be made by those teams on a simple Wiki page and filled by interested folks, like a short-order queue (q.v. Free Media). * Working with development folks to figure out how we can have a drop-in replacement for branded stuff like default theme graphics. Then anyone is free to create theme work and have it packaged for inclusion in the Fedora repositories, and distro spins can take their choice. * More work with Tango, in keeping with the general Fedora commitment to collaborating on changes upstream, as opposed to rolling our own. There are great artists working there already, and teaming up with them is a no-brainer. M?ir?n already passed on a great idea here about customizing SVG with CSS: http://live.gnome.org/AwesomeArtShit . All the benefits of Tango, plus a customized Fedora look and palette. Those are some suggestions for work that could be done starting right now. Work with existing communities to achieve results. -- Paul W. Frields, RHCE http://paul.frields.org/ gpg fingerprint: 3DA6 A0AC 6D58 FEC4 0233 5906 ACDB C937 BD11 3717 Fedora Project: http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/PaulWFrields irc.freenode.net: stickster @ #fedora-docs, #fedora-devel, #fredlug -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: signature.asc Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 189 bytes Desc: This is a digitally signed message part URL: From nicu_fedora at nicubunu.ro Fri Feb 23 07:33:28 2007 From: nicu_fedora at nicubunu.ro (Nicu Buculei) Date: Fri, 23 Feb 2007 09:33:28 +0200 Subject: Figuring out the mission In-Reply-To: <1172196689.30791.64.camel@localhost.localdomain> References: <484ace5d0702221203u4ba77ad2v6728caf1ee297b3@mail.gmail.com> <1172196689.30791.64.camel@localhost.localdomain> Message-ID: <45DE98C8.808@nicubunu.ro> I will try in the future to *not* reply in this thread, I don't want to ignite useless flames. Paul W. Frields wrote: > > On Thu, 2007-02-22 at 15:03 -0500, John Baer wrote: >> >> Checking the pulse of the team of late I would say its pretty much >> flat lined with little or no activity as a direct result of the >> actions from Red Hat. > > Is that a conscious decision of people not to participate, or are they > just holding back based on confusion? Pardon my eternal optimism, but > every day's a chance to turn that around. I think the graphics development is no different compared with software development in general: it has sexier areas (like working on desktop themes) and areas somewhat boring, repetitive and unattractive (for example optimizing icons for small size display, 16x16). To keep an unpaid volunteer interested, I think he/she should have access to the sexy part too, otherwise a loss of motivation will occur. > You're asking me questions I have no way to answer other than what I've > told you. I don't work for Red Hat, and I haven't talked with the > people in question. I can tell you with all sincerity that Max and Greg > tried very hard to get the Desktop team to either (1) fully engage the > Artwork community, or (2) engage the Board with a discussion of where > they thought a line should be drawn for that engagement, and why. I am very sympathetic with you Paul, I understand you try to control the damage here. >> Does Red Hat really support open source or is it just lip service? John, do not consider Red Hat a single mind, it is a big organization with a lot of people inside it. As I can see, Red Hat as a company is the biggest FOSS company and really dedicated to this (see for example their patent policy). With that said, be sure the decision about artwork in Fedora was *not* made by Red Hat top management. > Do we have any idea how many active contributors are in Artwork at this > time? Is it enough to warrant a steering committee? Most of the major > subprojects have one. Needless bureaucracy can be stifling, but if more > governance is necessary to track schedules, we should move forward with > that. I'd bet there are multiple opinions on this topic... Not counting Diana and not counting people already departed from the project because of this issue, I can think of at least 6 contributors who *both* submitted graphics and participated to discuss on the list (there are more people who either did a few icons for Echo or just contributed with feedback). note: we had a very weak, if not non-existent, campaign of recruiting new contributors. > Now, here are some more suggestions for directions that I think are > worthwhile for Artwork. Remember how you said to bring some solutions? > Here you go: > > * Dispatch teams, where one or more artists work with a specific group > to fill an artwork need, such as the Infrastructure or Website folks for > web apps or the wiki, Marketing for posters and other paper-type > distribution, Docs for publication styles.... Requests could be made by > those teams on a simple Wiki page and filled by interested folks, like a > short-order queue (q.v. Free Media). For the moment this is the direction I see the most appropriate: dissolve the team and let the people to contribute directly to whatever projects they feel like (infrastructure, website, documentation, marketing). This will leave development of the Echo theme in air, but Echo already have its own leadership problems and personally I don't have big faith in its future. > * Working with development folks to figure out how we can have a drop-in > replacement for branded stuff like default theme graphics. Then anyone > is free to create theme work and have it packaged for inclusion in the > Fedora repositories, and distro spins can take their choice. Alternate themes are easier to do, as they will not need a lot of the graphics (for a non-default is no need for Anaconda and firstboot graphics, those are used only at the install time, before an alternate can get in), so it should be much easier to do those. And this can be even much easier and no packaging needed, if some contributor want to make only wallpapers then just a web gallery is enough for him. -- nicu Cool Fedora wallpapers: http://fedora.nicubunu.ro/wallpapers/ Open Clip Art Library: http://www.openclipart.org my Fedora stuff: http://fedora.nicubunu.ro From baerjj at gmail.com Fri Feb 23 13:39:39 2007 From: baerjj at gmail.com (John Baer) Date: Fri, 23 Feb 2007 08:39:39 -0500 Subject: Figuring out the mission (Paul W. Frields) Message-ID: <484ace5d0702230539p11d1ad9cnf48fbc0d7bbc5b94@mail.gmail.com> On 2/22/07, David wrote: > Maybe this write-up by Jef is useful for you to read > > > https://www.redhat.com/archives/fedora-devel-list/2007-January/msg00176.html > > since I think you're confused about what open source means (you seem to > equate it with democracy). Anyway, I'm going to step out of this thread > for a bit... > David, thank you for the above link. A great read ... and Paul thank you for your comments. In my mind I am trying to sort out moving forward in a way that adds value. Here are my questions. 1. Referencing David's link above, who is our benevolent dictator (my preference of title would be "Red Hat liaison")? If this is the way we must travel let's put our cards on the table. 2. Should artwork be centralized or decentralized? By that I mean should the documentation team come to the art team for art work or just do it? If the decision is decentralized then the question becomes is there a need for a art team? 3. If the decision stands that Red Hat will take control of the Fedora desktop I would argue this should also include icons. IMO icons are too closely tied to artwork to be be separated and if they are this will be source of future issues like the one we just experienced. With these questions answered I can assemble some ideas in a wiki page for the team to consider. If these questions can not be answered I am at a lost of what to do next. More as a BTW, I loaded the latest Ubuntu herd CD to see what's going on there and I was amused to see some of the artwork considered unworthy for "dapper" is in the package for "feisty". I can only assume Mark S. realized his decision to pull artwork from the community was a mistake. Maybe there is a lesson to be learned . :) Cheers, John -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From sundaram at fedoraproject.org Fri Feb 23 21:01:41 2007 From: sundaram at fedoraproject.org (Rahul Sundaram) Date: Sat, 24 Feb 2007 02:31:41 +0530 Subject: Including artwork from older releases Message-ID: <45DF5635.40105@fedoraproject.org> Hi Since the plan is to refresh the desktop theme for every release, we would invariably have folks who like the artwork in one of the previous releases better than the current one. Since we already have a rule about not including version numbers in the current release, can we continue to including the older themes in subsequent three releases or something like that? The only problem with this is that rhgb is not easily themeable but hopefully we are getting rid of that soon enough to not worry about it. Rahul From lightsolphoenix at gmail.com Fri Feb 23 21:36:56 2007 From: lightsolphoenix at gmail.com (Kelly) Date: Fri, 23 Feb 2007 16:36:56 -0500 Subject: Including artwork from older releases In-Reply-To: <45DF5635.40105@fedoraproject.org> References: <45DF5635.40105@fedoraproject.org> Message-ID: <200702231636.56863.lightsolphoenix@gmail.com> I imagine that'd be of use to to those who are running earlier versions as well (using the new artwork in the old versions is a MAJOR pain, as I found out personally). On Friday 23 February 2007 4:01:41 pm Rahul Sundaram wrote: > Hi > > Since the plan is to refresh the desktop theme for every release, we > would invariably have folks who like the artwork in one of the previous > releases better than the current one. Since we already have a rule about > not including version numbers in the current release, can we continue to > including the older themes in subsequent three releases or something > like that? > > The only problem with this is that rhgb is not easily themeable but > hopefully we are getting rid of that soon enough to not worry about it. > > Rahul > > _______________________________________________ > Fedora-art-list mailing list > Fedora-art-list at redhat.com > http://www.redhat.com/mailman/listinfo/fedora-art-list -- http://www.mozilla.org/products/firefox/ - Get Firefox! http://www.mozilla.org/products/thunderbird/ - Reclaim Your Inbox! Please avoid sending me Word or PowerPoint attachments. See http://www.gnu.org/philosophy/no-word-attachments.html From luya_tfz at thefinalzone.com Sat Feb 24 05:42:07 2007 From: luya_tfz at thefinalzone.com (Luya Tshimbalanga) Date: Fri, 23 Feb 2007 21:42:07 -0800 Subject: Including artwork from older releases In-Reply-To: <45DF5635.40105@fedoraproject.org> References: <45DF5635.40105@fedoraproject.org> Message-ID: <45DFD02F.9090100@thefinalzone.com> Rahul Sundaram wrote: > Hi > > Since the plan is to refresh the desktop theme for every release, we > would invariably have folks who like the artwork in one of the > previous releases better than the current one. Since we already have a > rule about not including version numbers in the current release, can > we continue to including the older themes in subsequent three releases > or something like that? I have not found the source version for each theme (they are in png format). I looked the background of the oldest Fedora Core release, it requires some tweak to remove the old text logo. Maybe Diana has the original files. From baerjj at gmail.com Sat Feb 24 18:33:35 2007 From: baerjj at gmail.com (John Baer) Date: Sat, 24 Feb 2007 13:33:35 -0500 Subject: The New and Improved Art Team Message-ID: <1172342015.6137.13.camel@localhost.localdomain> All, On February 13th the Fedora Art Team hit the wall. I realize now it was inevitable and no one was at fault. Since that day many team members searched for answers to the questions "what went wrong" and "why". Dialogs were exchanged in heated and direct conversations. The smoke from the event must have been black as it attracted new members who offered their thoughts and comments. The problem with art is it all about personal taste and perception. I believe we can all agree the human eye may view something one way and then see it completely different at another time. I laughed at myself as I reviewed the images created on the road to February 13th. I stated I was satisfied with my rc1 only to create something completely different a few days later. A short time ago I presented Fedora to a group of IT professionals steeped in years of effort in the Windows environment. I needed a good introduction and I wanted to deliver the message Fedora was more than Linux. To achieve this result I modified the RHGB artwork to boldly display the word ?fedora? and added a subtitle stating ?An Open Source Computing Solution sponsored by Red Hat, Inc?. The audience received the message. In the final analysis the Art Team wasn't ready to do business. By that I mean we did not have well crafted goals and objectives; effective and efficient outcomes. For the "New and Improved Art Team" I have a few in mind. Goal 1 The art team will enable the users of Fedora to enhance its visual appearance to meet their need or desire. Objective 1.1 The art team will craft wiki pages describing how to customized the appearance of Fedora. Objective 1.2 The art team will evaluate and recommend suitable upstream artwork packages to be included in the release. Objective 1.3 The art team will facilitate the exchange of computer art to promote Fedora to a wider audience. Objective 1.4 The art team will investigate creating and maintaining a Fedora sub-forum targeted to the needs of artist. Sticky posts could point back to the wiki pages created by ?objective 1.1?. Goal 2 Encourage the use of open source products in the creation of art. Objective 2.1 The art team will investigate the re-design of the Fedora forum gallery to include a method of image branding such as ?made with inkscape?, ?crafted with gimp?. The effort could also consider targeted subsections for alternative artwork for icons, RHGB, GDM, KDE, and splash screens. As I look toward the talented artists who submit images to the Fedora gallery I considered why they were not a part of the mix. IMO the team failed to deliver on the open source value of ?inclusion ? all are welcomed, encourage others to join?. To quote myself, ?If we are going to be open source then we need to do open source?. :) The words from David and Paul were right on and although I requested an apology from the Red Hat desktop team the only apology required is my own. The answers were all around us, all I had to do is see them. ?Promote Fedora to a wider audience? and use ?open source values? when doing open source business. I apologize folks for not seeing the obvious. To wrap up nothing I've stated in this email is cast in stone. Perhaps they are only starting points; but if team agrees, we have work to do. I am interested in hearing your thoughts. John From mikechalmers70 at gmail.com Sat Feb 24 18:50:48 2007 From: mikechalmers70 at gmail.com (Mike Chalmers) Date: Sat, 24 Feb 2007 13:50:48 -0500 Subject: The New and Improved Art Team In-Reply-To: <1172342015.6137.13.camel@localhost.localdomain> References: <1172342015.6137.13.camel@localhost.localdomain> Message-ID: <148c52290702241050l79146209pcf64ae8d200b78e6@mail.gmail.com> On 2/24/07, John Baer wrote: > All, > > On February 13th the Fedora Art Team hit the wall. I realize now it was > inevitable and no one was at fault. > > Since that day many team members searched for answers to the questions > "what went wrong" and "why". Dialogs were exchanged in heated and direct > conversations. The smoke from the event must have been black as it > attracted new members who offered their thoughts and comments. > > The problem with art is it all about personal taste and perception. I > believe we can all agree the human eye may view something one way and > then see it completely different at another time. I laughed at myself as > I reviewed the images created on the road to February 13th. I stated I > was satisfied with my rc1 only to create something completely different > a few days later. > > A short time ago I presented Fedora to a group of IT professionals > steeped in years of effort in the Windows environment. I needed a good > introduction and I wanted to deliver the message Fedora was more than > Linux. To achieve this result I modified the RHGB artwork to boldly > display the word "fedora" and added a subtitle stating "An Open Source > Computing Solution sponsored by Red Hat, Inc". The audience received the > message. > > In the final analysis the Art Team wasn't ready to do business. By that > I mean we did not have well crafted goals and objectives; effective and > efficient outcomes. For the "New and Improved Art Team" I have a few in > mind. > > Goal 1 > > The art team will enable the users of Fedora to enhance its visual > appearance to meet their need or desire. > > Objective 1.1 > > The art team will craft wiki pages describing how to customized the > appearance of Fedora. > > Objective 1.2 > > The art team will evaluate and recommend suitable upstream artwork > packages to be included in the release. > > Objective 1.3 > > The art team will facilitate the exchange of computer art to promote > Fedora to a wider audience. > > Objective 1.4 > > The art team will investigate creating and maintaining a Fedora > sub-forum targeted to the needs of artist. Sticky posts could point back > to the wiki pages created by "objective 1.1". > > Goal 2 > > Encourage the use of open source products in the creation of art. > > Objective 2.1 > > The art team will investigate the re-design of the Fedora forum gallery > to include a method of image branding such as "made with inkscape", > "crafted with gimp". The effort could also consider targeted subsections > for alternative artwork for icons, RHGB, GDM, KDE, and splash screens. > > As I look toward the talented artists who submit images to the Fedora > gallery I considered why they were not a part of the mix. IMO the team > failed to deliver on the open source value of "inclusion ? all are > welcomed, encourage others to join". > > To quote myself, "If we are going to be open source then we need to do > open source". :) > > The words from David and Paul were right on and although I requested an > apology from the Red Hat desktop team the only apology required is my > own. The answers were all around us, all I had to do is see them. > "Promote Fedora to a wider audience" and use "open source values" when > doing open source business. > > I apologize folks for not seeing the obvious. > > To wrap up nothing I've stated in this email is cast in stone. Perhaps > they are only starting points; but if team agrees, we have work to do. > > I am interested in hearing your thoughts. > > John > > _______________________________________________ > Fedora-art-list mailing list > Fedora-art-list at redhat.com > http://www.redhat.com/mailman/listinfo/fedora-art-list > Focus on nature and using more natural colors as themes, logos, desktops, desktop backgrounds, etc. From stickster at gmail.com Sat Feb 24 19:39:43 2007 From: stickster at gmail.com (Paul W. Frields) Date: Sat, 24 Feb 2007 14:39:43 -0500 Subject: The New and Improved Art Team In-Reply-To: <1172342015.6137.13.camel@localhost.localdomain> References: <1172342015.6137.13.camel@localhost.localdomain> Message-ID: <1172345983.9126.7.camel@localhost.localdomain> On Sat, 2007-02-24 at 13:33 -0500, John Baer wrote: [...snip...] > Goal 1 > The art team will enable the users of Fedora to enhance its visual > appearance to meet their need or desire. > > Objective 1.1 > The art team will craft wiki pages describing how to customized the > appearance of Fedora. > > Objective 1.2 > The art team will evaluate and recommend suitable upstream artwork > packages to be included in the release. Rather than such a passive role, why not also "participate with upstream communities on artwork solutions for inclusion in Fedora"? i.e. Tango, SVG+CSS... > Objective 1.3 > The art team will facilitate the exchange of computer art to promote > Fedora to a wider audience. > > Objective 1.4 > The art team will investigate creating and maintaining a Fedora > sub-forum targeted to the needs of artist. Sticky posts could point back > to the wiki pages created by ?objective 1.1?. > > Goal 2 > Encourage the use of open source products in the creation of art. > > Objective 2.1 > The art team will investigate the re-design of the Fedora forum gallery > to include a method of image branding such as ?made with inkscape?, > ?crafted with gimp?. The effort could also consider targeted subsections > for alternative artwork for icons, RHGB, GDM, KDE, and splash screens. What about also: Goal 3: Increase the visual appeal of other Fedora subprojects in a unified and community-building way. -- Paul W. Frields, RHCE http://paul.frields.org/ gpg fingerprint: 3DA6 A0AC 6D58 FEC4 0233 5906 ACDB C937 BD11 3717 Fedora Project: http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/PaulWFrields irc.freenode.net: stickster @ #fedora-docs, #fedora-devel, #fredlug -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: signature.asc Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 189 bytes Desc: This is a digitally signed message part URL: From luya_tfz at thefinalzone.com Sat Feb 24 21:14:06 2007 From: luya_tfz at thefinalzone.com (Luya Tshimbalanga) Date: Sat, 24 Feb 2007 13:14:06 -0800 Subject: The New and Improved Art Team In-Reply-To: <1172342015.6137.13.camel@localhost.localdomain> References: <1172342015.6137.13.camel@localhost.localdomain> Message-ID: <45E0AA9E.9080300@thefinalzone.com> I suggest to write these goals as draft on the wiki so they won't be buried in this list. What is also needed is someone who can lead the team. Having talented artists is not enough without cooperation . -- ??D0 References: <1172342015.6137.13.camel@localhost.localdomain> <45E0AA9E.9080300@thefinalzone.com> Message-ID: <45E0C43F.7070304@redhat.com> Hi, I just wanted to poke my head in this discussion a bit; I think Paul and John have started a productive, forward-looking discussion here: Luya Tshimbalanga wrote: > I suggest to write these goals as draft on the wiki so they won't be > buried in this list. What is also needed is someone who can lead the > team. Having talented artists is not enough without cooperation . If you folks are willing to give it another shot with a clean slate, clear charter, and well-defined goals as are being discussed right now, I would be willing to come back at this point and take a team lead position if you'd still have me. (However, it's up to you as it's your community; I have *plenty* of other things on my plate so I certainly won't be offended if not. :) ) Anyway, here are some of my ideas on moving forward, let me know what you think: = Future Approach to Art Team Organization = Do you really think having a centralized community is the best way to go? If so, should it be: 1) tight-knit - all other Fedora groups come here and 'contract out' to this group and work together on all types of projects, OR, 2) loosely coupled - different team members work in the different areas Paul suggested, and communicate/keep updated with each other on this list or by some other means. E.g., there may be some art team folks whose specialty is making banners/posters/etc for events so they work closely with marketing and ambassadors, while there may be some art team folks who are more interested in the website so they work closely with the infrastructure team members. For what it's worth, in my professional career I have been part of both types of teams and in my experience the latter type of environment has been more productive & rewarding, producing better results. What do you all think is a better approach? = Making it Easier to Understand What's Going On and How to Contribute to the Art Team = In terms of moving forward, improving, and growing - I recently read a blog post from a Fedora community member [1]: 'I?ve looked at some of the mailing lists fedora art and fedora marketing but haven?t really invested a lot of time into them mostly because I don?t know what can or needs to be done.' == Short-Order Request Queue == If this is the scenario would-be contributors are running into, I think we need to address it by improving this to attract more art team members, as John alluded to [2]. I really like Paul's idea of having a short-order queue/list wiki page of requests that other groups within the Fedora Project have made of the art team. It would be a great place for newbies to see a list of short-term, quick projects so they can quickly get their feet wet and get involved. These requests could be broken down into some of the basic categories Paul suggested [3]: * Website / Web Application Requests (working with Infrastructure and Websites teams on things like web page templates, interaction designs for web apps, artwork for use in web apps, banners for the wiki, any artwork for display on the web basically) * Marketing / Ambassadors Requests (working with those teams on event collateral such as posters, cd labels, t-shirt designs, etc., mostly print designs it seems) * Documentation Requests (working with the docs folks on stuff like docs templates / XSLT / CSS / etc., diagrams and screenshots for within the documentation, etc.) I think these categories adequately capture the categories of 'short-order' requests where it's feasible other members of the Fedora project might want to ask a quick favor of the art team that we could churn out quickly. (Can anyone think of any other areas within Fedora they know of or may be involved in that may want to make short-term requests of an art team?) Anyway, how this queue could work is that items by default would be open for anyone to grab; if someone wants to claim one they mark their name by it. If nothing has been produced in enough time for the requestor, they can reopen the request for another contributor. We could subscribe fedora-art-list to wiki watch the request page so we are all kept informed when a request is made, claimed, and fulfilled. == Long-Term Project List == In addition, for transparency it may also be wise to have a page listing out more-involved, ongoing, longer-term projects; it would include all the categories above as well as: * Alternative themes - working on crafting the actual themes as well as working to make it possible to make them drop-in replacements; eg. finding a technical solution to making it possible, getting an alternative art package/packages into the-artist-formerly-known-as-extras, maintaining that package, etc.; this could also involve an RSS-based wallpaper changing system as well as RPMs as has been discussed for a long time but never executed on. Some ideas for this would be (1) to use Fedora art-specific Flickr tags and package Webilder [4] for inclusion with Fedora with those set as options in it by default; (2) do the same but using desktop drapes [5] as presented at the last GNOME Boston summit. It's written in mono though so maybe not. * FOSS Tools promotion and marketing (as per John's suggested objective 2 [2]) * Upstream Icon SVG+CSS integration with GNOME Art / Tango teams (as suggested by Paul [3]) * Customization made easy - focus on producing documentation on how to customize the artwork in Fedora (as per John's suggested objective 1.1 [2]) * Communicating - making it easier for artists to share their Fedora-related wallpapers and artworks, perhaps this could involve the deployment / maintenance of a system like art.gnome.org for Fedora, it could involve setting up an art-team planet for artists to post their feeds of artwork and discuss their current projects and plans, it could involve expanding our currently existing Mugshot group; there are a lot of possibilities here. Something really cool would be a system kind of like designalogue [6] where we can comment on and track the family tree of the stuff we work on. Making sure we can adequately communicate what we're working on will help inspire and guide new contributors, I think. These projects would all be treated more as subteams rather than short-order queues, where folks working on whichever long-term project would list their names so folks wanting to get involved would know who to contact. They should also link to the wiki pages where their development/process is taking place. What do you think? ~m [1] http://bija.wordpress.com/2007/02/16/fedora-usability [2] https://www.redhat.com/archives/fedora-art-list/2007-February/msg00174.html [3] https://www.redhat.com/archives/fedora-art-list/2007-February/msg00168.html [4] http://www.webilder.org/ [5] http://drapes.mindtouchsoftware.com/ [6] http://www.designologue.com/ From luya_tfz at thefinalzone.com Sun Feb 25 11:12:56 2007 From: luya_tfz at thefinalzone.com (Luya Tshimbalanga) Date: Sun, 25 Feb 2007 03:12:56 -0800 Subject: The New and Improved Art Team In-Reply-To: <45E0C43F.7070304@redhat.com> References: <1172342015.6137.13.camel@localhost.localdomain> <45E0AA9E.9080300@thefinalzone.com> <45E0C43F.7070304@redhat.com> Message-ID: <45E16F38.106@thefinalzone.com> +1. No much to add. -- ??D0 References: <45DF5635.40105@fedoraproject.org> <200702231636.56863.lightsolphoenix@gmail.com> Message-ID: <9c3bfa1d0702250614o3e850555l43fb022886986d58@mail.gmail.com> > On Friday 23 February 2007 4:01:41 pm Rahul Sundaram wrote: > > The only problem with this is that rhgb is not easily themeable but > > hopefully we are getting rid of that soon enough to not worry about it. On 23/02/07, Kelly wrote: > I imagine that'd be of use to to those who are running earlier versions as > well (using the new artwork in the old versions is a MAJOR pain, as I found > out personally). The RHGB image may be a reminder to which version you are actually using raher than a user saying, "the one with the bubbles," or suchlike. > [...] Since we already have a rule about > not including version numbers in the current release, can we continue to > including the older themes in subsequent three releases or something > like that? Maybe the packages could be something like fedora-artwork-v3-0.421, the v3 being the release it has come from. It would need to all have different names, such as 'default-fc6.jpg' for the wallpapers, so they do not overwrite each other. If it's easy enough it's well worth doing, nice little package for an extra. -- ..// seawolf //.. Ben Arnold e-mail / msn / icq / yahoo iamseawolf (at) gmail (dot) com http://clik.to/seawolfsanctuary fedora core : artwork GnuPG Available - ask me! From ben.arnold.inbox at gmail.com Sun Feb 25 14:55:56 2007 From: ben.arnold.inbox at gmail.com (Ben Arnold) Date: Sun, 25 Feb 2007 14:55:56 +0000 Subject: The New and Improved Art Team In-Reply-To: <45E0C43F.7070304@redhat.com> References: <1172342015.6137.13.camel@localhost.localdomain> <45E0AA9E.9080300@thefinalzone.com> <45E0C43F.7070304@redhat.com> Message-ID: <9c3bfa1d0702250655ieceeea0i4df214bedb6d8ca7@mail.gmail.com> On 24/02/07, M?ir?n Duffy wrote: > If you folks are willing to give it another shot with a clean slate, > clear charter, and well-defined goals as are being discussed right now, > I would be willing to come back at this point and take a team lead > position if you'd still have me. (However, it's up to you as it's your > community; I have *plenty* of other things on my plate so I certainly > won't be offended if not. :) ) +1, you did a great job when you were here. > Do you really think having a centralized community is the best way to > go? I do, a project needs a central point to act as a base for new members to start from and for currently active to keep track of. It would certainly make me feel more welcome and more organised if I were new to fedorArt. > 2) loosely coupled - different team members work in the different areas > Paul suggested, and communicate/keep updated with each other on this > list or by some other means. E.g., there may be some art team folks > whose specialty is making banners/posters/etc for events so they work > closely with marketing and ambassadors, while there may be some art team > folks who are more interested in the website so they work closely with > the infrastructure team members. As this Artwork has to cover a bit of ground and some of the members (such as myself) have only a little bit of time in their week to work on it, this would mean a couple of people as contacts for a particular division and would be able to concentrate on each other's work. > = Making it Easier to Understand What's Going On and How to Contribute > to the Art Team = > > == Short-Order Request Queue == > > I really like Paul's idea of having a > short-order queue/list wiki page of requests that other groups within > the Fedora Project have made of the art team. It would be a great place > for newbies to see a list of short-term, quick projects so they can > quickly get their feet wet and get involved. Totally, a frequently-edited wiki page such as http://developer.mugshot.org/wiki/Activity_Ideas could work well if it is split up. If feedback is needed, a thread would be started; I like the icons John uses in his theme page to suggest there is a thread about it. > These requests could be > broken down into some of the basic categories Paul suggested [3]: > > (Can anyone think of any other areas within Fedora > they know of or may be involved in that may want to make short-term > requests of an art team?) Speak of the devil. There has been an occaision [1] where outside requests have come in ofr artists to contribute for an unrelated project: * Outside Project Requests (kinda speaks for itself, if anyone feels like a change, why not help these people in need?) > == Long-Term Project List == > > These projects would all be treated more as subteams rather than > short-order queues, where folks working on whichever long-term project > would list their names so folks wanting to get involved would know who > to contact. They should also link to the wiki pages where their > development/process is taking place. For longer-term project, wouldn't a wiki page of it's own as we currently have with Echo (and we know that a truly long-term) be sufficient? If we link the Contributors page with each project, the pages could have a unified section at the bottom describing it's people. ./Ben [1] http://www.redhat.com/archives/fedora-art-list/2006-April/msg00068.html -- ..// seawolf //.. Ben Arnold e-mail / msn / icq / yahoo iamseawolf (at) gmail (dot) com http://clik.to/seawolfsanctuary fedora core : artwork GnuPG Available - ask me! From martin.sourada at seznam.cz Sun Feb 25 16:45:33 2007 From: martin.sourada at seznam.cz (Martin Sourada) Date: Sun, 25 Feb 2007 17:45:33 +0100 Subject: Some problems in Echo action icons Message-ID: <45E1BD2D.4060908@seznam.cz> Hi, I think, since Echo is going to be included in Fedora 7, that it should look more ready. So, looking at action icons I see there a few problems: 1. missing shadow: application-exit document-print document-print-preview system-log-out view-refresh 2. zoom icons hard to distinguish in small sizes (see attachment 'zoom.png') 3. some icons usually placed next each other have different positioning (and sizes sometimes) (see attachment "positioning1.png" and "positioning2.png") from what I noticed problematic icons are: go-next go-previous media-skip-backward media-skip-forward I think we should sort out these problems before FD7 release. Do you see any other problems? What do you think? Regards, Martin Sourada -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: positioning1.png Type: image/png Size: 1518 bytes Desc: not available URL: -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: positioning2.png Type: image/png Size: 1482 bytes Desc: not available URL: -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: zoom.png Type: image/png Size: 1203 bytes Desc: not available URL: From nicu_fedora at nicubunu.ro Mon Feb 26 09:12:17 2007 From: nicu_fedora at nicubunu.ro (Nicu Buculei) Date: Mon, 26 Feb 2007 11:12:17 +0200 Subject: Including artwork from older releases In-Reply-To: <45DFD02F.9090100@thefinalzone.com> References: <45DF5635.40105@fedoraproject.org> <45DFD02F.9090100@thefinalzone.com> Message-ID: <45E2A471.3090800@nicubunu.ro> Luya Tshimbalanga wrote: > > I have not found the source version for each theme (they are in png > format). I looked the background of the oldest Fedora Core release, it > requires some tweak to remove the old text logo. Maybe Diana has the > original files. Diana posted on the list only sources for FC6 graphics, they are available here: http://people.redhat.com/dfong/fc6graphics/ Note: the original is the .psd file, the GIMP conversion have a slightly different look (brightness) because of Photoshop/GIMP differences. For the FC5 graphics, lacking access at the sources, I did a SVG remake at the time (not using blur, only faking it): http://fedora.nicubunu.ro/cdart/bubbles/jewel_insert_bubbles.svg -- nicu Cool Fedora wallpapers: http://fedora.nicubunu.ro/wallpapers/ Open Clip Art Library: http://www.openclipart.org my Fedora stuff: http://fedora.nicubunu.ro From nicu_fedora at nicubunu.ro Mon Feb 26 10:26:30 2007 From: nicu_fedora at nicubunu.ro (Nicu Buculei) Date: Mon, 26 Feb 2007 12:26:30 +0200 Subject: The New and Improved Art Team In-Reply-To: <45E0C43F.7070304@redhat.com> References: <1172342015.6137.13.camel@localhost.localdomain> <45E0AA9E.9080300@thefinalzone.com> <45E0C43F.7070304@redhat.com> Message-ID: <45E2B5D6.2070206@nicubunu.ro> M?ir?n Duffy wrote: > > If you folks are willing to give it another shot with a clean slate, > clear charter, and well-defined goals as are being discussed right now, > I would be willing to come back at this point and take a team lead > position if you'd still have me. (However, it's up to you as it's your > community; I have *plenty* of other things on my plate so I certainly > won't be offended if not. :) ) I for one could not think at anybody else able to lead the team. I would suggest for start focus on short term goals so the team can *see* some results and (re-)gain trust. > Anyway, here are some of my ideas on moving forward, let me know what > you think: > > = Future Approach to Art Team Organization = > > Do you really think having a centralized community is the best way to > go? If so, should it be: > > 1) tight-knit - all other Fedora groups come here and 'contract out' to > this group and work together on all types of projects, > > OR, > > 2) loosely coupled - different team members work in the different areas > Paul suggested, and communicate/keep updated with each other on this > list or by some other means. E.g., there may be some art team folks > whose specialty is making banners/posters/etc for events so they work > closely with marketing and ambassadors, while there may be some art team > folks who are more interested in the website so they work closely with > the infrastructure team members. > > For what it's worth, in my professional career I have been part of both > types of teams and in my experience the latter type of environment has > been more productive & rewarding, producing better results. What do you > all think is a better approach? I used to favor the first approach (centralized) but I am in the process of changing my mind, it seems a loosely coupled team is better equipped to survive. Even a centralized team should be descentralized in sub-teams for each activity area, so the result is again loosely coupled. > = Making it Easier to Understand What's Going On and How to Contribute > to the Art Team = > > In terms of moving forward, improving, and growing - I recently read a > blog post from a Fedora community member [1]: > > 'I?ve looked at some of the mailing lists fedora art and fedora > marketing but haven?t really invested a lot of time into them mostly > because I don?t know what can or needs to be done.' And we can, of course, communicate better, we have a lot of ways, let go all of us in one of those: - the Fedora Art group in Mugshot - a new Fedora group on DeviantART.com - a new Fedora group on flickr Also, I encourage members of the team to blog and maybe we aggregate the blogs of the team members in something like planet.artcommunity.fedoraproject.org and push our latest work with the power of aggregation and RSS. > == Short-Order Request Queue == > > If this is the scenario would-be contributors are running into, I think > we need to address it by improving this to attract more art team > members, as John alluded to [2]. I really like Paul's idea of having a > short-order queue/list wiki page of requests that other groups within > the Fedora Project have made of the art team. It would be a great place > for newbies to see a list of short-term, quick projects so they can > quickly get their feet wet and get involved. These requests could be > broken down into some of the basic categories Paul suggested [3]: I have an idea for a short term task, will talk about it in a separate thread to keep the talk focused. > == Long-Term Project List == > > In addition, for transparency it may also be wise to have a page listing > out more-involved, ongoing, longer-term projects; it would include all > the categories above as well as: You listed a lot of good long term project here. > These projects would all be treated more as subteams rather than > short-order queues, where folks working on whichever long-term project > would list their names so folks wanting to get involved would know who > to contact. They should also link to the wiki pages where their > development/process is taking place. Sure, sub-teams. I think for each kind of project, be it long term or short term here is need for initiative: anyone with some experience in the field (some, not exhaustive experience) should step up, take the initiative and start the subproject. So for all members: read the list with possible projects, see if you like something, if you know the basics about anything and start your own sub-team. -- nicu Cool Fedora wallpapers: http://fedora.nicubunu.ro/wallpapers/ Open Clip Art Library: http://www.openclipart.org my Fedora stuff: http://fedora.nicubunu.ro From nicu_fedora at nicubunu.ro Mon Feb 26 09:33:42 2007 From: nicu_fedora at nicubunu.ro (Nicu Buculei) Date: Mon, 26 Feb 2007 11:33:42 +0200 Subject: Including artwork from older releases In-Reply-To: <45DF5635.40105@fedoraproject.org> References: <45DF5635.40105@fedoraproject.org> Message-ID: <45E2A976.3090900@nicubunu.ro> Rahul Sundaram wrote: > > Since the plan is to refresh the desktop theme for every release, we > would invariably have folks who like the artwork in one of the previous > releases better than the current one. Since we already have a rule about > not including version numbers in the current release, can we continue to > including the older themes in subsequent three releases or something > like that? I used to support this idea of including graphics for a few older releases. Now with the talk about alternate theming from the community, I think graphics from old releases can be on equal footing with theme packs from the community: in extra packages not installed by default but easy to install. > The only problem with this is that rhgb is not easily themeable but > hopefully we are getting rid of that soon enough to not worry about it. As I see, it make sense to include alternate graphics where the user can easily change them (desktop, GDM). Where is not so easy (RHGB, GRUB) I see two ways: - do not provide alternate graphics for these; - provide a rpm to change the *entire* theming. -- nicu Cool Fedora wallpapers: http://fedora.nicubunu.ro/wallpapers/ Open Clip Art Library: http://www.openclipart.org my Fedora stuff: http://fedora.nicubunu.ro From nicu_fedora at nicubunu.ro Mon Feb 26 10:50:17 2007 From: nicu_fedora at nicubunu.ro (Nicu Buculei) Date: Mon, 26 Feb 2007 12:50:17 +0200 Subject: The New and Improved Art Team In-Reply-To: <9c3bfa1d0702250655ieceeea0i4df214bedb6d8ca7@mail.gmail.com> References: <1172342015.6137.13.camel@localhost.localdomain> <45E0AA9E.9080300@thefinalzone.com> <45E0C43F.7070304@redhat.com> <9c3bfa1d0702250655ieceeea0i4df214bedb6d8ca7@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <45E2BB69.7050101@nicubunu.ro> Ben Arnold wrote: > On 24/02/07, M?ir?n Duffy wrote: > >> Do you really think having a centralized community is the best way to >> go? > > I do, a project needs a central point to act as a base for new members > to start from and for currently active to keep track of. It would > certainly make me feel more welcome and more organised if I were new > to fedorArt. Sure a central point should exist, it may be a page in the wiki, it may be an aggregation of our blogs, it may be even a dedicate wiki or a picture gallery. But as I see, the work and the decision does not have to be centralized: if a sub-team work on, say, Echo icons, is any need for this team to get approvals for the leadership of the Art project for every step? I think the leader of the sub-team and the users of the work (the desktop team?) is enough to make a decision. > As this Artwork has to cover a bit of ground and some of the members > (such as myself) have only a little bit of time in their week to work > on it, this would mean a couple of people as contacts for a particular > division and would be able to concentrate on each other's work. You know, for the time being we are not that many people. Yes, is rewarding (at the surface) to assign titles to our names, but as how we are now do you see a sub-team with more than 2-3 people in it? > Speak of the devil. > > There has been an occaision [1] where outside requests have come in > ofr artists to contribute for an unrelated project: > > * Outside Project Requests (kinda speaks for itself, if anyone feels > like a change, why not help these people in need?) Because I think we should stay focused. Of course, we can help external projects, but in my experience (based on how I did the new logo for GNU Solfege http://www.solfege.org/) a developer in need for new graphics go to a project working with graphics (in my case was openclipart.org) and ask for help, one or more people rely to him in private and then the development takes place on the appropriate channels (the mailing list / wiki / version control) of the external project. -- nicu -- nicu Cool Fedora wallpapers: http://fedora.nicubunu.ro/wallpapers/ Open Clip Art Library: http://www.openclipart.org my Fedora stuff: http://fedora.nicubunu.ro From nicu_fedora at nicubunu.ro Mon Feb 26 11:52:27 2007 From: nicu_fedora at nicubunu.ro (Nicu Buculei) Date: Mon, 26 Feb 2007 13:52:27 +0200 Subject: new subproject: Hackergotchi Service Message-ID: <45E2C9FB.40105@nicubunu.ro> Following M?ir?n's idea of teams working on various projects I started a sub-project with a Short-Order Request Queue, perfectly suited for beginners and new contributors: the Hackergotchi Service - http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Artwork/HackergotchiService The intention is to have bloggers from Fedora universe not skilled enough/ without free time/ with need from someone more experienced in the field to have a place where to request a hackergotchi and receive help from one of our team members. When we will have a redesigned page for the Art Project (we really need it, to reflect the new goals and structure) I will list it there, for now I announced it in my blog (which should push it in Planet Fedora and Mugshot). -- nicu Cool Fedora wallpapers: http://fedora.nicubunu.ro/wallpapers/ Open Clip Art Library: http://www.openclipart.org my Fedora stuff: http://fedora.nicubunu.ro From nicu_fedora at nicubunu.ro Mon Feb 26 12:41:31 2007 From: nicu_fedora at nicubunu.ro (Nicu Buculei) Date: Mon, 26 Feb 2007 14:41:31 +0200 Subject: Possible long-term project for Fedora Art Message-ID: <45E2D57B.3010401@nicubunu.ro> A possible project where Fedora Art people could work is the Games SIG [1]. In a recently published "Sate of the Union" [2] they state the need for contributions from artists to create game graphics and to promote the games. Surely, the task in neither easy or short, but for those inclined, it is a worthy place to contribute. Personally, I will not tackle it simply because the games in Fedora are not up to my liking (and I like to play games). [1] - http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Extras/SIGs/Games [2] -https://www.redhat.com/archives/fedora-games-list/2007-February/msg00007.html -- nicu Cool Fedora wallpapers: http://fedora.nicubunu.ro/wallpapers/ Open Clip Art Library: http://www.openclipart.org my Fedora stuff: http://fedora.nicubunu.ro From ben.arnold.inbox at gmail.com Mon Feb 26 12:55:57 2007 From: ben.arnold.inbox at gmail.com (Ben Arnold) Date: Mon, 26 Feb 2007 12:55:57 +0000 Subject: The New and Improved Art Team In-Reply-To: <45E2BB69.7050101@nicubunu.ro> References: <1172342015.6137.13.camel@localhost.localdomain> <45E0AA9E.9080300@thefinalzone.com> <45E0C43F.7070304@redhat.com> <9c3bfa1d0702250655ieceeea0i4df214bedb6d8ca7@mail.gmail.com> <45E2BB69.7050101@nicubunu.ro> Message-ID: <9c3bfa1d0702260455s25caa001ga8916b4cc754b56d@mail.gmail.com> On 26/02/07, Nicu Buculei wrote: > > As this Artwork has to cover a bit of ground and some of the members > > (such as myself) have only a little bit of time in their week to work > > on it, this would mean a couple of people as contacts for a particular > > division and would be able to concentrate on each other's work. > > You know, for the time being we are not that many people. Yes, is > rewarding (at the surface) to assign titles to our names, but as how we > are now do you see a sub-team with more than 2-3 people in it? TBH, yes. This would tell who is working on what and, possibly, the level of experience they may hold regarding wider matters. I would think for new people coming in, it would be helpful to have a list of relevant contributors who are working on the one thing they are interested in joining. > > * Outside Project Requests (kinda speaks for itself, if anyone feels > > like a change, why not help these people in need?) > > Because I think we should stay focused. We are in the same situation here, the example you gave happened to me: I responded to the Music Applet request in private e-mail but as that has been the only one in as long as I've been here (IIRC) then it's not going to get much attention anyways. I just thought to put it on the list as it has happened. -- ..// seawolf //.. Ben Arnold e-mail / msn / icq / yahoo iamseawolf (at) gmail (dot) com http://clik.to/seawolfsanctuary fedora core : artwork GnuPG Available - ask me! From nicu_fedora at nicubunu.ro Mon Feb 26 13:09:12 2007 From: nicu_fedora at nicubunu.ro (Nicu Buculei) Date: Mon, 26 Feb 2007 15:09:12 +0200 Subject: graphics in FedoraForum In-Reply-To: <1172342015.6137.13.camel@localhost.localdomain> References: <1172342015.6137.13.camel@localhost.localdomain> Message-ID: <45E2DBF8.9050903@nicubunu.ro> John Baer wrote: > > Encourage the use of open source products in the creation of art. > > Objective 2.1 > > The art team will investigate the re-design of the Fedora forum gallery > to include a method of image branding such as ?made with inkscape?, > ?crafted with gimp?. The effort could also consider targeted subsections > for alternative artwork for icons, RHGB, GDM, KDE, and splash screens. If with this you understand adding tis kind of branding as graphic elements to the images I strongly oppose. If we are talking about tags, labels, keywords or even saying in the text description "made with", then I am all for it (note: fedoraforum.org does not have support for such tags, one could use only the description). > As I look toward the talented artists who submit images to the Fedora > gallery I considered why they were not a part of the mix. IMO the team > failed to deliver on the open source value of ?inclusion ? all are > welcomed, encourage others to join?. I have a strong objection also for the wallpaper gallery from fedoraforum.org [1], I have contributed in the past graphics to it but: - it lack some features, like the tags I talked about above or RSS feeds or even sorting into categories; - there are also licensing and copyright issues (just have a quick look at it). Do not understand me wrong, I enjoy a NSFW graphic (and fortunately, the place where I work does not even have such a policy), I like anime and anime wallpapers, I like sometime a cheap shot at Microsoft and I am for free exchange of information... [1] - http://www.fedoraforum.org/gallery/browseimages.php?c=2 -- nicu Cool Fedora wallpapers: http://fedora.nicubunu.ro/wallpapers/ Open Clip Art Library: http://www.openclipart.org my Fedora stuff: http://fedora.nicubunu.ro From sundaram at fedoraproject.org Mon Feb 26 13:14:53 2007 From: sundaram at fedoraproject.org (Rahul Sundaram) Date: Mon, 26 Feb 2007 18:44:53 +0530 Subject: new subproject: Hackergotchi Service In-Reply-To: <45E2C9FB.40105@nicubunu.ro> References: <45E2C9FB.40105@nicubunu.ro> Message-ID: <45E2DD4D.3010400@fedoraproject.org> Nicu Buculei wrote: > Following M?ir?n's idea of teams working on various projects I started a > sub-project with a Short-Order Request Queue, perfectly suited for > beginners and new contributors: the Hackergotchi Service - > http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Artwork/HackergotchiService > > The intention is to have bloggers from Fedora universe not skilled > enough/ without free time/ with need from someone more experienced in > the field to have a place where to request a hackergotchi and receive > help from one of our team members. > > When we will have a redesigned page for the Art Project (we really need > it, to reflect the new goals and structure) I will list it there, for > now I announced it in my blog (which should push it in Planet Fedora and > Mugshot). Cool. Added cross references to http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Planet Rahul From baerjj at gmail.com Mon Feb 26 13:41:21 2007 From: baerjj at gmail.com (John Baer) Date: Mon, 26 Feb 2007 08:41:21 -0500 Subject: artTeam Home Page Mockup Message-ID: <484ace5d0702260541s2db0c148h6ddd2aa6bfd2c568@mail.gmail.com> All, I could not be more delighted by the discussion taking place and I want to add an additional item to the discussion and that is a mock up of the team wiki home page. It currently resides in my personal sandbox but if it this is heading in the desired direction of the team I would like to move it. Please view this as a starting point. Paul, I see you are skilled writer and I would welcome any improvements your have time to offer (feel free to edit the page). http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/JohnBaer/SandBox Cheers, John -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From baerjj at gmail.com Mon Feb 26 13:55:10 2007 From: baerjj at gmail.com (John Baer) Date: Mon, 26 Feb 2007 08:55:10 -0500 Subject: artTeam Liaison Volunteer Message-ID: <484ace5d0702260555l218b609atc86c70938a6bda58@mail.gmail.com> All, MairinDuffyaka Mo :) has volunteered to be the artTeam liaison and I believe she is an excellent candidate for the position. I move we accept her offer! If you disagree please state your concerns with "love" for the teams consideration. Cheers, John -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From baerjj at gmail.com Mon Feb 26 14:14:30 2007 From: baerjj at gmail.com (John Baer) Date: Mon, 26 Feb 2007 09:14:30 -0500 Subject: Including the Right People Message-ID: <484ace5d0702260614x78bfdabq74a4a66d6b618d06@mail.gmail.com> All, I would like to make sure as we move forward that everyone that should be included is included. We are discussing changing some established processes and I would regret if these well intentioned discussions were received the wrong way. Specifically, I do not know who supports the Fedora forum and/or the Fedora gallery but can someone touch base with these individuals. Our discussions are not critical of their excellent work and we need their help going forward. Thanks, John -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From sundaram at fedoraproject.org Mon Feb 26 14:19:51 2007 From: sundaram at fedoraproject.org (Rahul Sundaram) Date: Mon, 26 Feb 2007 19:49:51 +0530 Subject: Including the Right People In-Reply-To: <484ace5d0702260614x78bfdabq74a4a66d6b618d06@mail.gmail.com> References: <484ace5d0702260614x78bfdabq74a4a66d6b618d06@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <45E2EC87.5020505@fedoraproject.org> John Baer wrote: > All, > > I would like to make sure as we move forward that everyone that should > be included is included. We are discussing changing some established > processes and I would regret if these well intentioned discussions were > received the wrong way. > > Specifically, I do not know who supports the Fedora forum and/or the > Fedora gallery but can someone touch base with these individuals. Our > discussions are not critical of their excellent work and we need their > help going forward. Can you describe what kind of help you are looking for in more detail? If you just want to upload some pics into the gallery, anybody could register and do so. Rahul From baerjj at gmail.com Mon Feb 26 14:24:29 2007 From: baerjj at gmail.com (John Baer) Date: Mon, 26 Feb 2007 09:24:29 -0500 Subject: Project Leads Wanted Message-ID: <484ace5d0702260624t14d18beage497402f97497c7d@mail.gmail.com> All, As our agenda begins to shape up please remember "every package has a maintainer, every project a lead". I request folks who have a strong desire in an effort consider volunteering as the project lead (you will get lot's of help). Please state that desire with a post to the list server. :) Cheers, John -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From nicu_fedora at nicubunu.ro Mon Feb 26 14:31:26 2007 From: nicu_fedora at nicubunu.ro (Nicu Buculei) Date: Mon, 26 Feb 2007 16:31:26 +0200 Subject: artTeam Home Page Mockup In-Reply-To: <484ace5d0702260541s2db0c148h6ddd2aa6bfd2c568@mail.gmail.com> References: <484ace5d0702260541s2db0c148h6ddd2aa6bfd2c568@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <45E2EF3E.5070906@nicubunu.ro> John Baer wrote: > > I could not be more delighted by the discussion taking place and I want > to add an additional item to the discussion and that is a mock up of the > team wiki home page. > > http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/JohnBaer/SandBox May I ask who is the intended audience for this page? - a Fedora user wanting to enhance the look of his desktop or some Fedora graphics for his website; - a Fedora enthusiast seeking a way to contribute to the project; - an existing contributor to Fedora Art seeking where to channel his work. I think is obvious that I am not a native speaker of the English language and from my point of view the first phrase with "enabler" and "facilitator" would scare me away if I would be new here. -- nicu Cool Fedora wallpapers: http://fedora.nicubunu.ro/wallpapers/ Open Clip Art Library: http://www.openclipart.org my Fedora stuff: http://fedora.nicubunu.ro From duffy at redhat.com Mon Feb 26 15:34:22 2007 From: duffy at redhat.com (=?ISO-8859-1?Q?M=E1ir=EDn_Duffy?=) Date: Mon, 26 Feb 2007 10:34:22 -0500 Subject: artTeam Liaison Volunteer In-Reply-To: <484ace5d0702260555l218b609atc86c70938a6bda58@mail.gmail.com> References: <484ace5d0702260555l218b609atc86c70938a6bda58@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <45E2FDFE.8030701@redhat.com> Hi John, John Baer wrote: > MairinDuffy > > aka Mo :) has volunteered to be the artTeam liaison and I believe she is > an excellent candidate for the position. Actually, I volunteered for team lead. According to your diagram, I would be totally inappropriate for liaison as I've no association with the RH desktop team. Thanks, ~m From duffy at redhat.com Mon Feb 26 15:49:32 2007 From: duffy at redhat.com (=?ISO-8859-1?Q?M=E1ir=EDn_Duffy?=) Date: Mon, 26 Feb 2007 10:49:32 -0500 Subject: new subproject: Hackergotchi Service In-Reply-To: <45E2C9FB.40105@nicubunu.ro> References: <45E2C9FB.40105@nicubunu.ro> Message-ID: <45E3018C.9090406@redhat.com> Nicu Buculei wrote: > Following M?ir?n's idea of teams working on various projects I started a > sub-project with a Short-Order Request Queue, perfectly suited for > beginners and new contributors: the Hackergotchi Service - > http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Artwork/HackergotchiService > > The intention is to have bloggers from Fedora universe not skilled > enough/ without free time/ with need from someone more experienced in > the field to have a place where to request a hackergotchi and receive > help from one of our team members. Heh, that is an awesome idea, and sorely needed! :) ~m From duffy at redhat.com Mon Feb 26 15:50:41 2007 From: duffy at redhat.com (=?UTF-8?B?TcOhaXLDrW4gRHVmZnk=?=) Date: Mon, 26 Feb 2007 10:50:41 -0500 Subject: The New and Improved Art Team In-Reply-To: <9c3bfa1d0702260455s25caa001ga8916b4cc754b56d@mail.gmail.com> References: <1172342015.6137.13.camel@localhost.localdomain> <45E0AA9E.9080300@thefinalzone.com> <45E0C43F.7070304@redhat.com> <9c3bfa1d0702250655ieceeea0i4df214bedb6d8ca7@mail.gmail.com> <45E2BB69.7050101@nicubunu.ro> <9c3bfa1d0702260455s25caa001ga8916b4cc754b56d@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <45E301D1.20703@redhat.com> Ben Arnold wrote: > On 26/02/07, Nicu Buculei wrote: >> > As this Artwork has to cover a bit of ground and some of the members >> > (such as myself) have only a little bit of time in their week to work >> > on it, this would mean a couple of people as contacts for a particular >> > division and would be able to concentrate on each other's work. >> >> You know, for the time being we are not that many people. Yes, is >> rewarding (at the surface) to assign titles to our names, but as how we >> are now do you see a sub-team with more than 2-3 people in it? > > TBH, yes. This would tell who is working on what and, possibly, the > level of experience they may hold regarding wider matters. I would > think for new people coming in, it would be helpful to have a list of > relevant contributors who are working on the one thing they are > interested in joining. I was thinking more the list of contacts for a subteam would be all of the members in that subteam (2-3 people) rather than 'leaders'. Does that make more sense? ~m From ben.arnold.inbox at gmail.com Mon Feb 26 16:19:08 2007 From: ben.arnold.inbox at gmail.com (Ben Arnold) Date: Mon, 26 Feb 2007 16:19:08 +0000 Subject: The New and Improved Art Team In-Reply-To: <45E301D1.20703@redhat.com> References: <1172342015.6137.13.camel@localhost.localdomain> <45E0AA9E.9080300@thefinalzone.com> <45E0C43F.7070304@redhat.com> <9c3bfa1d0702250655ieceeea0i4df214bedb6d8ca7@mail.gmail.com> <45E2BB69.7050101@nicubunu.ro> <9c3bfa1d0702260455s25caa001ga8916b4cc754b56d@mail.gmail.com> <45E301D1.20703@redhat.com> Message-ID: <9c3bfa1d0702260819r632e79a0we23aeb70971e812c@mail.gmail.com> OIC, that's fair enough but I considered the team lead being the contact point. If there are contributors with very little time, they may not want to be contacted about things e.g. the packaging process of Echo or something. I suppose, though, people can contact whoever they want or just put a general query to the mailing list and any member of the team can then write back with an answer. On 26/02/07, M?ir?n Duffy wrote: > I was thinking more the list of contacts for a subteam would be all of > the members in that subteam (2-3 people) rather than 'leaders'. Does > that make more sense? > > ~m -- ..// seawolf //.. Ben Arnold e-mail / msn / icq / yahoo iamseawolf (at) gmail (dot) com http://clik.to/seawolfsanctuary fedora core : artwork GnuPG Available - ask me! From tchung at fedoraproject.org Mon Feb 26 18:48:32 2007 From: tchung at fedoraproject.org (Thomas Chung) Date: Mon, 26 Feb 2007 10:48:32 -0800 Subject: Hackergotchi Service for ThomasChung Message-ID: <369bce3b0702261048h10e65ef4n43bd89baf12c379a@mail.gmail.com> Could someone from Fedora Arts team crerate Hackergotchi Image for me? http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Artwork/HackergotchiService Thank you. -- Thomas Chung http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/ThomasChung From jjmasek at gmail.com Mon Feb 26 19:05:15 2007 From: jjmasek at gmail.com (Jiri Jakub Masek) Date: Mon, 26 Feb 2007 20:05:15 +0100 Subject: Hackergotchi Service for ThomasChung In-Reply-To: <369bce3b0702261048h10e65ef4n43bd89baf12c379a@mail.gmail.com> References: <369bce3b0702261048h10e65ef4n43bd89baf12c379a@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: Could you specify what image you need? JJM 2007/2/26, Thomas Chung : > > Could someone from Fedora Arts team crerate Hackergotchi Image for me? > http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Artwork/HackergotchiService > Thank you. > -- > Thomas Chung > http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/ThomasChung > > _______________________________________________ > Fedora-art-list mailing list > Fedora-art-list at redhat.com > http://www.redhat.com/mailman/listinfo/fedora-art-list > -- I'm still learning English... Ji?? Jakub Ma?ek - Mr Jiri Jakub Masek Czech Republic, European Union http://jjm.xf.cz -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From gabriel.hurley at gmail.com Mon Feb 26 19:52:37 2007 From: gabriel.hurley at gmail.com (Gabriel Hurley) Date: Mon, 26 Feb 2007 13:52:37 -0600 Subject: Including artwork from older releases In-Reply-To: <45E2A976.3090900@nicubunu.ro> References: <45DF5635.40105@fedoraproject.org> <45E2A976.3090900@nicubunu.ro> Message-ID: <395ebc340702261152n1b45a6a0ybb946fc5bf9d3b5d@mail.gmail.com> I think it's a fantastic idea to include art from old releases. It'll saves me having to download the FC5 artwork each time. Gabriel Hurley -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From ben.arnold.inbox at gmail.com Mon Feb 26 21:15:01 2007 From: ben.arnold.inbox at gmail.com (Ben Arnold) Date: Mon, 26 Feb 2007 21:15:01 +0000 Subject: Luya's Weather Icons In-Reply-To: <9c3bfa1d0702070329k3c401e55yc3bbf16afd6d4abc@mail.gmail.com> References: <9c3bfa1d0702060518k8e36d99na2e563168c909fb4@mail.gmail.com> <45C9B255.2090704@thefinalzone.com> <9c3bfa1d0702070329k3c401e55yc3bbf16afd6d4abc@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <9c3bfa1d0702261315m6285c35did567cc9f4d5aa845@mail.gmail.com> Luya - I've only just seen the complete range of your icons (yeah, it's taken me long enough) and they look great. What do you think of using one cloud for them? I just think it may help the composition. Please see the attached files for my modifications. ./b -- ..// seawolf //.. Ben Arnold e-mail / msn / icq / yahoo iamseawolf (at) gmail (dot) com http://clik.to/seawolfsanctuary fedora core : artwork GnuPG Available - ask me! -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: weather-few-cloudsL.png Type: image/png Size: 3371 bytes Desc: not available URL: -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: weather-few-clouds24.png Type: image/png Size: 1297 bytes Desc: not available URL: -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: weather-few-cloudsS.png Type: image/png Size: 774 bytes Desc: not available URL: -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: Source Files.tar.gz Type: application/x-gzip Size: 19432 bytes Desc: not available URL: From stickster at gmail.com Mon Feb 26 22:36:59 2007 From: stickster at gmail.com (Paul W. Frields) Date: Mon, 26 Feb 2007 17:36:59 -0500 Subject: artTeam Home Page Mockup In-Reply-To: <45E2EF3E.5070906@nicubunu.ro> References: <484ace5d0702260541s2db0c148h6ddd2aa6bfd2c568@mail.gmail.com> <45E2EF3E.5070906@nicubunu.ro> Message-ID: <1172529419.4119.29.camel@localhost.localdomain> On Mon, 2007-02-26 at 16:31 +0200, Nicu Buculei wrote: > John Baer wrote: > > > > I could not be more delighted by the discussion taking place and I want > > to add an additional item to the discussion and that is a mock up of the > > team wiki home page. > > > > http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/JohnBaer/SandBox > > May I ask who is the intended audience for this page? > - a Fedora user wanting to enhance the look of his desktop or some > Fedora graphics for his website; > - a Fedora enthusiast seeking a way to contribute to the project; > - an existing contributor to Fedora Art seeking where to channel his work. > > I think is obvious that I am not a native speaker of the English > language and from my point of view the first phrase with "enabler" and > "facilitator" would scare me away if I would be new here. Yes, it's important to use simple and clear language whenever possible. I made some changes as John requested. -- Paul W. Frields, RHCE http://paul.frields.org/ gpg fingerprint: 3DA6 A0AC 6D58 FEC4 0233 5906 ACDB C937 BD11 3717 Fedora Project: http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/PaulWFrields irc.freenode.net: stickster @ #fedora-docs, #fedora-devel, #fredlug -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: signature.asc Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 189 bytes Desc: This is a digitally signed message part URL: From stickster at gmail.com Mon Feb 26 22:45:40 2007 From: stickster at gmail.com (Paul W. Frields) Date: Mon, 26 Feb 2007 17:45:40 -0500 Subject: artTeam Liaison Volunteer In-Reply-To: <45E2FDFE.8030701@redhat.com> References: <484ace5d0702260555l218b609atc86c70938a6bda58@mail.gmail.com> <45E2FDFE.8030701@redhat.com> Message-ID: <1172529940.4119.38.camel@localhost.localdomain> On Mon, 2007-02-26 at 10:34 -0500, M?ir?n Duffy wrote: > Hi John, > > John Baer wrote: > > MairinDuffy > > > > aka Mo :) has volunteered to be the artTeam liaison and I believe she is > > an excellent candidate for the position. > > Actually, I volunteered for team lead. > > According to your diagram, I would be totally inappropriate for liaison > as I've no association with the RH desktop team. Yes, and I'd caution against bandying these terms about until the contributors have shown they want to use them. I would think there could be separate contact points for different groups -- some people will naturally have an affinity for working well with one group or another. It could be that the contact point is a crossover person with a foot in both groups. I would offer the observation that, while broad organization is a must, declaring too many formal roles with not enough contributors to fill them is sometimes counterproductive. That's not to say the ideas on John's page aren't good, but we haven't heard from many of the folks here on the list what they think about the ideas. -- Paul W. Frields, RHCE http://paul.frields.org/ gpg fingerprint: 3DA6 A0AC 6D58 FEC4 0233 5906 ACDB C937 BD11 3717 Fedora Project: http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/PaulWFrields irc.freenode.net: stickster @ #fedora-docs, #fedora-devel, #fredlug -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: signature.asc Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 189 bytes Desc: This is a digitally signed message part URL: From luya_tfz at thefinalzone.com Tue Feb 27 01:30:51 2007 From: luya_tfz at thefinalzone.com (Luya Tshimbalanga) Date: Mon, 26 Feb 2007 20:30:51 -0500 Subject: Luya's Weather Icons In-Reply-To: <9c3bfa1d0702261315m6285c35did567cc9f4d5aa845@mail.gmail.com> References: <9c3bfa1d0702060518k8e36d99na2e563168c909fb4@mail.gmail.com> <45C9B255.2090704@thefinalzone.com> <9c3bfa1d0702070329k3c401e55yc3bbf16afd6d4abc@mail.gmail.com> <9c3bfa1d0702261315m6285c35did567cc9f4d5aa845@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <1172539851.45e389cb77aa4@ssl.mecca.ca> Quoting Ben Arnold : > What do you think of using one cloud for them? I just think it may > help the composition. I like them. I was planning to remove extra cloud from weather-few-cloud and modify the other cloud to be consistent with the other icons. Feel free to submit the modification on the wiki. -- Luya Tshimbalanga Fedora Project contributor http://www.fedoraproject.org/wiki/LuyaTshimbalanga From nicu_fedora at nicubunu.ro Tue Feb 27 06:55:34 2007 From: nicu_fedora at nicubunu.ro (Nicu Buculei) Date: Tue, 27 Feb 2007 08:55:34 +0200 Subject: Hackergotchi Service for ThomasChung In-Reply-To: References: <369bce3b0702261048h10e65ef4n43bd89baf12c379a@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <45E3D5E6.30002@nicubunu.ro> Jiri Jakub Masek wrote: > Could you specify what image you need? Jiri, I thought the wiki page is clear enough: http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Artwork/HackergotchiService See http://planet.fedoraproject.org, Hackergotchis are the little floating heads on the left of the posts and some tips on how to make them are at http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/NicuBuculei/Hackerogotchi > 2007/2/26, Thomas Chung: > > Could someone from Fedora Arts team crerate Hackergotchi Image for me? > http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Artwork/HackergotchiService > Thank you. -- nicu Cool Fedora wallpapers: http://fedora.nicubunu.ro/wallpapers/ Open Clip Art Library: http://www.openclipart.org my Fedora stuff: http://fedora.nicubunu.ro From jjmasek at gmail.com Tue Feb 27 10:24:32 2007 From: jjmasek at gmail.com (Jiri Jakub Masek) Date: Tue, 27 Feb 2007 11:24:32 +0100 Subject: Hackergotchi Service for ThomasChung In-Reply-To: <45E3D5E6.30002@nicubunu.ro> References: <369bce3b0702261048h10e65ef4n43bd89baf12c379a@mail.gmail.com> <45E3D5E6.30002@nicubunu.ro> Message-ID: Thanks..... JJM 2007/2/27, Nicu Buculei : > > Jiri Jakub Masek wrote: > > Could you specify what image you need? > > Jiri, I thought the wiki page is clear enough: > http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Artwork/HackergotchiService > > See http://planet.fedoraproject.org, Hackergotchis are the little > floating heads on the left of the posts and some tips on how to make > them are at http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/NicuBuculei/Hackerogotchi > > > 2007/2/26, Thomas Chung: > > > > Could someone from Fedora Arts team crerate Hackergotchi Image for > me? > > http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Artwork/HackergotchiService > > Thank you. > > -- > nicu > Cool Fedora wallpapers: http://fedora.nicubunu.ro/wallpapers/ > Open Clip Art Library: http://www.openclipart.org > my Fedora stuff: http://fedora.nicubunu.ro > > _______________________________________________ > Fedora-art-list mailing list > Fedora-art-list at redhat.com > http://www.redhat.com/mailman/listinfo/fedora-art-list > -- I'm still learning English... Ji?? Jakub Ma?ek - Mr Jiri Jakub Masek Czech Republic, European Union http://jjm.xf.cz -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From ben.arnold.inbox at gmail.com Tue Feb 27 10:42:43 2007 From: ben.arnold.inbox at gmail.com (Ben Arnold) Date: Tue, 27 Feb 2007 10:42:43 +0000 Subject: Rather Annoying Wiki Problem Message-ID: <9c3bfa1d0702270242y7085cb7fjbe489b0ab9f28594@mail.gmail.com> All, I'm not sure if anyone else is experiencing this but in the EchoDevelopment wiki page [1] I cannot attach files yet I can edit the page. I want to change some existing icons but have no option to do so. Using Safari on a Mac (sshhh) but I couldn't at home either, am I missing something? TIA, ./b [1] http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Artwork/EchoDevelopment -- ..// seawolf //.. Ben Arnold e-mail / msn / icq / yahoo iamseawolf (at) gmail (dot) com http://clik.to/seawolfsanctuary fedora core : artwork GnuPG Available - ask me! -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: Picture 1a.jpg Type: image/jpeg Size: 66717 bytes Desc: not available URL: From dfong at redhat.com Tue Feb 27 15:40:21 2007 From: dfong at redhat.com (Diana Fong) Date: Tue, 27 Feb 2007 10:40:21 -0500 Subject: Rather Annoying Wiki Problem In-Reply-To: <9c3bfa1d0702270242y7085cb7fjbe489b0ab9f28594@mail.gmail.com> References: <9c3bfa1d0702270242y7085cb7fjbe489b0ab9f28594@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <45E450E5.2000100@redhat.com> Ben Arnold wrote: > All, > > I'm not sure if anyone else is experiencing this but in the > EchoDevelopment wiki page [1] I cannot attach files yet I can edit the > page. I want to change some existing icons but have no option to do > so. > > Using Safari on a Mac (sshhh) but I couldn't at home either, am I > missing something? > > TIA, > > ./b > > [1] http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Artwork/EchoDevelopment Ben, There's currently been some reworking of the Fedoraproject.org site resulting in various problems, conversation of it's progress can be found on fedora-website-list [1]. However, for now, I've found that if you go to Preferences and set your Preferred Theme to Classic or Modern, the Attachment feature will return. Diana Fong ---- Red Hat Visual Designer [1] https://www.redhat.com/archives/fedora-websites-list/2007-February/msg00063.html From dfong at redhat.com Tue Feb 27 16:10:04 2007 From: dfong at redhat.com (Diana Fong) Date: Tue, 27 Feb 2007 11:10:04 -0500 Subject: Some problems in Echo action icons In-Reply-To: <45E1BD2D.4060908@seznam.cz> References: <45E1BD2D.4060908@seznam.cz> Message-ID: <45E457DC.6030402@redhat.com> Martin Sourada wrote: > Hi, > I think, since Echo is going to be included in Fedora 7, that it > should look more ready. So, looking at action icons I see there a few > problems: > 1. missing shadow: > application-exit > document-print > document-print-preview > system-log-out > view-refresh > 2. zoom icons hard to distinguish in small sizes (see attachment > 'zoom.png') > 3. some icons usually placed next each other have different > positioning (and sizes sometimes) (see attachment "positioning1.png" > and "positioning2.png") > from what I noticed problematic icons are: > go-next > go-previous > media-skip-backward > media-skip-forward > > I think we should sort out these problems before FD7 release. Do you > see any other problems? What do you think? > > Regards, > Martin Sourada This is a great list. A bug was filed for Problem #2 [1] yesterday and Ben is looking into making modifications to address it. I'm also working on the mail icons mentioned in Bug 213259. Additional polish I'd like to see for existing icons include: 1. reworking of the format-text-xxx group. There have also been reports that they lack clarity in the evolution tool bar. Suggestion: perhaps darken the blue. 2. resizing of the emblem icons. Currently they are 48x48. Looking at Bluecurve, the 48x48 Emblem set is actually comprised of 36x36 sized icons. Opening one of these Bluecurve Emblem Icons, show that the image is even smaller in size...close to 30pixels. What is the best approach for these modifications, in terms of listing issues and solutions? Bugs should probably be filed in addition to discussion on this list. Diana Fong ---- Red Hat Visual Designer [1] https://bugzilla.redhat.com/bugzilla/show_bug.cgi?id=230112 [2] https://bugzilla.redhat.com/bugzilla/show_bug.cgi?id=213259 From nicu_fedora at nicubunu.ro Tue Feb 27 15:23:26 2007 From: nicu_fedora at nicubunu.ro (Nicu Buculei) Date: Tue, 27 Feb 2007 17:23:26 +0200 Subject: Rather Annoying Wiki Problem In-Reply-To: <9c3bfa1d0702270242y7085cb7fjbe489b0ab9f28594@mail.gmail.com> References: <9c3bfa1d0702270242y7085cb7fjbe489b0ab9f28594@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <45E44CEE.7090705@nicubunu.ro> Ben Arnold wrote: > All, > > I'm not sure if anyone else is experiencing this but in the > EchoDevelopment wiki page [1] I cannot attach files yet I can edit the > page. I want to change some existing icons but have no option to do > so. That wiki page really look different compared with what I see: another hearer, another sidebar. Are sure you are not loading an old version from some cache? A proxy somewhere in the middle? -- nicu Cool Fedora wallpapers: http://fedora.nicubunu.ro/wallpapers/ Open Clip Art Library: http://www.openclipart.org my Fedora stuff: http://fedora.nicubunu.ro From ben.arnold.inbox at gmail.com Tue Feb 27 18:08:21 2007 From: ben.arnold.inbox at gmail.com (Ben Arnold) Date: Tue, 27 Feb 2007 18:08:21 +0000 Subject: Rather Annoying Wiki Problem In-Reply-To: <45E450E5.2000100@redhat.com> References: <9c3bfa1d0702270242y7085cb7fjbe489b0ab9f28594@mail.gmail.com> <45E450E5.2000100@redhat.com> Message-ID: <9c3bfa1d0702271008m6216a574g9a1a98085fdb55d0@mail.gmail.com> On 27/02/07, Diana Fong wrote: > There's currently been some reworking of the Fedoraproject.org site > resulting in various problems, conversation of it's progress can be > found on fedora-website-list [1]. However, for now, I've found that if > you go to Preferences and set your Preferred Theme to Classic or Modern, > the Attachment feature will return. :) What seems like Developer's mode. Thanks On 27/02/07, Nicu Buculei wrote: > That wiki page really look different compared with what I see: another > hearer, another sidebar. > Are sure you are not loading an old version from some cache? A proxy > somewhere in the middle? Sure, the cache is emptied every time I logon and I refreshed the page. I'm using the kindofblue theme but I'd be interested of a screenshot of what you see if you are using the same one. -- ..// seawolf //.. Ben Arnold e-mail / msn / icq / yahoo iamseawolf (at) gmail (dot) com http://clik.to/seawolfsanctuary fedora core : artwork GnuPG Available - ask me! From mola at c100c.com Tue Feb 27 19:49:01 2007 From: mola at c100c.com (Mola Pahnadayan) Date: Tue, 27 Feb 2007 23:19:01 +0330 Subject: which icon ? Message-ID: <1172605741.26492.1.camel@::1> hi all :) -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... 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Frields) Date: Tue, 27 Feb 2007 17:52:34 -0500 Subject: Rather Annoying Wiki Problem In-Reply-To: <9c3bfa1d0702271008m6216a574g9a1a98085fdb55d0@mail.gmail.com> References: <9c3bfa1d0702270242y7085cb7fjbe489b0ab9f28594@mail.gmail.com> <45E450E5.2000100@redhat.com> <9c3bfa1d0702271008m6216a574g9a1a98085fdb55d0@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <1172616754.9407.1.camel@localhost.localdomain> On Tue, 2007-02-27 at 18:08 +0000, Ben Arnold wrote: > On 27/02/07, Diana Fong wrote: > > There's currently been some reworking of the Fedoraproject.org site > > resulting in various problems, conversation of it's progress can be > > found on fedora-website-list [1]. However, for now, I've found that if > > you go to Preferences and set your Preferred Theme to Classic or Modern, > > the Attachment feature will return. > > :) > What seems like Developer's mode. Thanks > > On 27/02/07, Nicu Buculei wrote: > > That wiki page really look different compared with what I see: another > > hearer, another sidebar. > > Are sure you are not loading an old version from some cache? A proxy > > somewhere in the middle? > > Sure, the cache is emptied every time I logon and I refreshed the > page. I'm using the kindofblue theme but I'd be interested of a > screenshot of what you see if you are using the same one. Yes, this is a known problem with the theme in the MoinMoin upgrade. You'll also find that the affected themes (like kindofblue) don't tell you whether someone else is editing a page, so conflicts will be more common if you use those. I'm using "modern" which seems to work fine for now. I know the Websites/Infrastructure folks are working on it. -- Paul W. Frields, RHCE http://paul.frields.org/ gpg fingerprint: 3DA6 A0AC 6D58 FEC4 0233 5906 ACDB C937 BD11 3717 Fedora Project: http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/PaulWFrields irc.freenode.net: stickster @ #fedora-docs, #fedora-devel, #fredlug -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: signature.asc Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 189 bytes Desc: This is a digitally signed message part URL: From duffy at redhat.com Tue Feb 27 22:53:39 2007 From: duffy at redhat.com (=?ISO-8859-1?Q?M=E1ir=EDn_Duffy?=) Date: Tue, 27 Feb 2007 17:53:39 -0500 Subject: Red Hat Magazine: The Open Palette Message-ID: <45E4B673.8070804@redhat.com> Hi folks, Check out Nicu's (with some help from me :) ) Inkscape article that just got published to Red Hat Magazine today: http://www.redhatmagazine.com/2007/02/27/the-open-palettehow-to-use-inkscapes-new-blur-filter/ We're starting a series of articles called "The Open Palette" to give tutorials, reviews, and introductions of anything FOSS and creative - graphics software, sound and video editing software, even how-tos on getting scanners and tablets to work in Linux and creative open licenses and communities. Pretty much *anything* relating to creative work as long as it's free and open source. This syncs up with one of the long term team projects we've been discussing recently - "FOSS Tools promotion and marketing" to show what you can do with the tools available in Fedora. So, if any of you have requests for more articles (maybe there's a particular type of tutorial you'd like to see?) or if you've got a great idea for an article you'd like to write (or help write), let's discuss it! :) ~m From duffy at redhat.com Wed Feb 28 00:19:07 2007 From: duffy at redhat.com (=?ISO-8859-1?Q?M=E1ir=EDn_Duffy?=) Date: Tue, 27 Feb 2007 19:19:07 -0500 Subject: artTeam Home Page Mockup In-Reply-To: <484ace5d0702260541s2db0c148h6ddd2aa6bfd2c568@mail.gmail.com> References: <484ace5d0702260541s2db0c148h6ddd2aa6bfd2c568@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <45E4CA7B.8040709@redhat.com> Hey John, John Baer wrote: > All, > > I could not be more delighted by the discussion taking place and I want > to add an additional item to the discussion and that is a mock up of the > team wiki home page. > > It currently resides in my personal sandbox but if it this is heading in > the desired direction of the team I would like to move it. Please view > this as a starting point. On the whole, I think the goals and objectives you've got on here are pretty much right on (with some holes I will fill in), but I kind of agree with Paul's [1] sentiment that in terms of roles on the team, this introduces a little bit too much structure for a small, fledgling team. For now, considering some of our recent *ahem* issues, I think it's probably a smart idea to avoid the default artwork for Fedora (the OS distro). It has already been decided that it cannot be part of a community project, so it really has nothing to do with this list and should not be a project under this team. This eliminates the need for a liaison with the Desktop team. (I do not think that putting together an extra theme package for (the artist formerly known as) extras requires working with Desktop team at all, although we will need someone with some packaging experience to help us put it together.) I kind of think all we really need is an overall team leader or two of the loosely coupled subgroups who can do project management (communication, schedules, deadlines, milestones, project prioritization, etc). Since the Fedora project definition process [2] suggests starting out as a SIG first and then giving status reports and sort of applying to become an official project, this status report/application process also seems like something that should be a task the team lead handles. I don't think small subgroups like a 'documentation team' or 'marketing team' really need formal leads/liasons; if they grow big enough to warrant it I should hope leaders would naturally emerge. Does this seem reasonable? ~m [1] https://www.redhat.com/archives/fedora-art-list/2007-February/msg00207.html [2] http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/DefiningProjects From stickster at gmail.com Wed Feb 28 00:23:49 2007 From: stickster at gmail.com (Paul W. Frields) Date: Tue, 27 Feb 2007 19:23:49 -0500 Subject: artTeam Home Page Mockup In-Reply-To: <45E4CA7B.8040709@redhat.com> References: <484ace5d0702260541s2db0c148h6ddd2aa6bfd2c568@mail.gmail.com> <45E4CA7B.8040709@redhat.com> Message-ID: <1172622229.9407.10.camel@localhost.localdomain> On Tue, 2007-02-27 at 19:19 -0500, M?ir?n Duffy wrote: [...snip...] > (I do not think that putting together an > extra theme package for (the artist formerly known as) extras requires > working with Desktop team at all, although we will need someone with > some packaging experience to help us put it together.) I'm not a packaging *guru*, but I've been packaging a few odds and ends for a while now, and if I didn't mention it before, I'm happy to help out with this part. -- Paul W. Frields, RHCE http://paul.frields.org/ gpg fingerprint: 3DA6 A0AC 6D58 FEC4 0233 5906 ACDB C937 BD11 3717 Fedora Project: http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/PaulWFrields irc.freenode.net: stickster @ #fedora-docs, #fedora-devel, #fredlug -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: signature.asc Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 189 bytes Desc: This is a digitally signed message part URL: From duffy at redhat.com Wed Feb 28 02:39:59 2007 From: duffy at redhat.com (=?ISO-8859-1?Q?M=E1ir=EDn_Duffy?=) Date: Tue, 27 Feb 2007 21:39:59 -0500 Subject: artTeam Home Page Mockup In-Reply-To: <484ace5d0702260541s2db0c148h6ddd2aa6bfd2c568@mail.gmail.com> References: <484ace5d0702260541s2db0c148h6ddd2aa6bfd2c568@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <45E4EB7F.6060405@redhat.com> Hey folks, John Baer wrote: > It currently resides in my personal sandbox but if it this is heading > in the desired direction of the team I would like to move it. Please > view this as a starting point. So I took a stab at refactoring this page a little bit (hope it's okay John) and adding some of things we've been discussing as far as goals, short-term projects, and long-term projects: http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/JohnBaer/SandBox Here's some points of discussion I'd like to bring up about it: 1) Overall does this seem reasonable as a replacement for the existing art page? Is there anything we're forgetting? 2) An intentional omission here is any reference to the default artwork. Does anyone not agree with this? 3) What do you folks think about the goals section of the page? Does anyone disagree about these being the general goals we'd like to work towards? Do the criteria for success seem reasonable? I'll quote this section verbatim below for easier dicussion: > A# Serve as a design firm for the Fedora community, creating artwork > and designs to for the Fedora community on request > > * How can we measurably achieve this goal? If we advertise this > service properly to the Fedora commnunity, successfully get a stream > of requests (let's say at least 5 requests per month for a start), > and if we can fulfill at least 5 requests per month to the > satisfaction of the person requesting them, we can say we have > successfully met this goal. > > B# Provide resources (tutorials, art assets, advice) and > encouragement for the use of the FOSS creative tools available in > Fedora, under open licenses to demonstrate the importance of the > application of FOSS ideas to creative content; > > * How can we measurably achieve this goal? If we can provide the > community with at least 1 major resource (tutorial, article, art > asset, scheduled lesson event, scheduled outreach event (such as a > contest to promote FOSS art tools) under an open license, then we can > say we have successfully met this goal. > > C# Make it easy for 'creative contributors' to contribute to the > Fedora project. > > * How can we measurably achieve this goal? If we can attract at least > one contributor every 3 months (for example, at least every three > months someone new to the artTeam completes a request in the service > request pages below), then we could probably say we have > successfully met this goal. If we are okay with discussion points #1 and #3 here, I think we're okay to go ahead and replace the current artwork page with this one. I don't think discussion point #2 necessarily has to be resolved before we switch over. ~m From duffy at redhat.com Wed Feb 28 05:21:34 2007 From: duffy at redhat.com (=?ISO-8859-1?Q?M=E1ir=EDn_Duffy?=) Date: Wed, 28 Feb 2007 00:21:34 -0500 Subject: Getting a better sense of community - gallery based groups Message-ID: <45E5115E.3050507@redhat.com> Hi folks, So one of the things we've discussed every now and then is having some kind of gallery system set up (beyond the wiki which isn't quite equipped for this) where we can share our work and comment on it, where the community can easily browse and comment on it, and (nice bonus) even have an RSS feed of artwork the general community can benefit from. Tonight I started investigating some options we have towards this. A great solution would be to have an install of the art.gnome.org software or have something custom-built for us, but I don't think we have the resources for something like that right now. So I've looked around at some other options: 1) Have an art-specific Fedora planet feed - It would be something like http://art.planet.fedoraproject.org and it would be a feed for artwork, not general blog posts. (E.g. you could syndicate your deviant art portfolio feed or a flickr fedora art album feed to this.) Whichever other option we go with, it should produce suitable RSS feeds so we should probably do this anyway. Send me your feeds (art, not blog) and I'll make the request to set it up. 2) Set up a Deviant art community - So I set one up and played around with it, take a look: http://fedora-art.deviantart.com/ The advantages of deviant-art: - is that it is completely tailored for illustrations/designs, not just photos. - it's free, and you can easily attach your source SVGs (or any other type of source files) for your work directly to each piece. - pretty much everything is available as an RSS feed - nice commenting system for individual pieces - no upload/usage limits - licensing on images is explicit - when you create a piece of artwork you determine the license explicitly Disadvantages: - the RSS feeds don't actually embed the image, they only provide a link. (does anyone know if it embeds the image for paid subscription accounts? I'd be willing to donate the $$ if so.) - having a group appears to be kind of a hack. you actually create a user that serves as the group, add your group members as friends (who also add the group as followers), and one or a small group of people have to manually upload things to the gallery. (this can be a good thing though, we can use the favorites system to highlight any fedora work, including drafts, and only add final/polished work to the gallery.) 3) Flickr community I gave this a try too, take a look: http://www.flickr.com/groups/fedora-art/ Advantages: - free to get an account - it doesn't require manual intervention to get graphics in the gallery. any group members can push their images to the group pool. (and if inappropriate/whatever stuff gets pushed the admin can remove it) - you can create invite-only groups or make them completely open. - licensing on images is explicit - when you create a piece of artwork you determine the license explicitly - the RSS feeds do actually embed the image, and include any descriptive text you added to the image so even though you can't upload your source here, you can add a link to it in the description and it'll be published to the feed. - tagging system makes it easier to browse all the pictures - the UI is pretty nice :) - the RSS feeds are also awesome in that I think they can be per tag as well as for the entire pool of images - having a group isn't a hack, it's definitely built for that Disadvantages: - theres a limit per month on how much you can upload per user account (I think it's 50mb/month.) - flickr is focused entirely towards photos. while i read their terms of service and made sure that it was okay for us to use for our purposes - people won't be able to search for our artwork using the UI because it seems they block non-photos from that according to their policy. 4) Set up a version control repository - Advantages: - we can track versions of artwork and its sources - would ultimately be controlled by the fedora project, not a third-party so more reliable Disadvantages: - likely will be difficult for folks to browse on, not possible to comment on really - high technical barrier to entry 5) Something else? I looked briefly at shadowness.com, which is pretty similar to deviantart but they have explicit groups *and* their RSS feeds embed images. However, their copyright policies are pretty weird. I've also never heard of it before (have any of you?) Not sure how reliable/trustworthy it is? Flickr and deviantart have both been around a while. Any others we should look at? Any preferences / comments / ideas? ~m From jjmasek at gmail.com Wed Feb 28 06:17:24 2007 From: jjmasek at gmail.com (Jiri Jakub Masek) Date: Wed, 28 Feb 2007 07:17:24 +0100 Subject: Getting a better sense of community - gallery based groups In-Reply-To: <45E5115E.3050507@redhat.com> References: <45E5115E.3050507@redhat.com> Message-ID: Hi, when I read the last week discussion comes the idea of an *art-supermarket* for contributing this project. Contributors as providers, Fedora people as buyers. So, isn't it the same idea like this? I support it. JJM 2007/2/28, M?ir?n Duffy : > > Hi folks, > > So one of the things we've discussed every now and then is having some > kind of gallery system set up (beyond the wiki which isn't quite > equipped for this) where we can share our work and comment on it, where > the community can easily browse and comment on it, and (nice bonus) even > have an RSS feed of artwork the general community can benefit from. > > Tonight I started investigating some options we have towards this. A > great solution would be to have an install of the art.gnome.org software > or have something custom-built for us, but I don't think we have the > resources for something like that right now. So I've looked around at > some other options: > > 1) Have an art-specific Fedora planet feed - > > It would be something like http://art.planet.fedoraproject.org and it > would be a feed for artwork, not general blog posts. (E.g. you could > syndicate your deviant art portfolio feed or a flickr fedora art album > feed to this.) > > Whichever other option we go with, it should produce suitable RSS feeds > so we should probably do this anyway. Send me your feeds (art, not blog) > and I'll make the request to set it up. > > 2) Set up a Deviant art community - > > So I set one up and played around with it, take a look: > > http://fedora-art.deviantart.com/ > > The advantages of deviant-art: > - is that it is completely tailored for illustrations/designs, not just > photos. > - it's free, and you can easily attach your source SVGs (or any other > type of source files) for your work directly to each piece. > - pretty much everything is available as an RSS feed > - nice commenting system for individual pieces > - no upload/usage limits > - licensing on images is explicit - when you create a piece of artwork > you determine the license explicitly > > Disadvantages: > - the RSS feeds don't actually embed the image, they only provide a > link. (does anyone know if it embeds the image for paid subscription > accounts? I'd be willing to donate the $$ if so.) > - having a group appears to be kind of a hack. you actually create a > user that serves as the group, add your group members as friends (who > also add the group as followers), and one or a small group of people > have to manually upload things to the gallery. (this can be a good thing > though, we can use the favorites system to highlight any fedora work, > including drafts, and only add final/polished work to the gallery.) > > 3) Flickr community > > I gave this a try too, take a look: > > http://www.flickr.com/groups/fedora-art/ > > Advantages: > - free to get an account > - it doesn't require manual intervention to get graphics in the gallery. > any group members can push their images to the group pool. (and if > inappropriate/whatever stuff gets pushed the admin can remove it) > - you can create invite-only groups or make them completely open. > - licensing on images is explicit - when you create a piece of artwork > you determine the license explicitly > - the RSS feeds do actually embed the image, and include any descriptive > text you added to the image so even though you can't upload your source > here, you can add a link to it in the description and it'll be published > to the feed. > - tagging system makes it easier to browse all the pictures > - the UI is pretty nice :) > - the RSS feeds are also awesome in that I think they can be per tag as > well as for the entire pool of images > - having a group isn't a hack, it's definitely built for that > > Disadvantages: > - theres a limit per month on how much you can upload per user account > (I think it's 50mb/month.) > - flickr is focused entirely towards photos. while i read their terms of > service and made sure that it was okay for us to use for our purposes - > people won't be able to search for our artwork using the UI because it > seems they block non-photos from that according to their policy. > > 4) Set up a version control repository - > > Advantages: > - we can track versions of artwork and its sources > - would ultimately be controlled by the fedora project, not a > third-party so more reliable > > Disadvantages: > - likely will be difficult for folks to browse on, not possible to > comment on really > - high technical barrier to entry > > 5) Something else? > > I looked briefly at shadowness.com, which is pretty similar to > deviantart but they have explicit groups *and* their RSS feeds embed > images. However, their copyright policies are pretty weird. I've also > never heard of it before (have any of you?) Not sure how > reliable/trustworthy it is? Flickr and deviantart have both been around > a while. > > Any others we should look at? > > Any preferences / comments / ideas? > > ~m > > _______________________________________________ > Fedora-art-list mailing list > Fedora-art-list at redhat.com > http://www.redhat.com/mailman/listinfo/fedora-art-list > -- I'm still learning English... Ji?? Jakub Ma?ek - Mr Jiri Jakub Masek Czech Republic, European Union http://jjm.xf.cz -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From nicu_fedora at nicubunu.ro Wed Feb 28 08:06:17 2007 From: nicu_fedora at nicubunu.ro (Nicu Buculei) Date: Wed, 28 Feb 2007 10:06:17 +0200 Subject: Getting a better sense of community - gallery based groups In-Reply-To: <45E5115E.3050507@redhat.com> References: <45E5115E.3050507@redhat.com> Message-ID: <45E537F9.8090302@nicubunu.ro> M?ir?n Duffy wrote: > > So one of the things we've discussed every now and then is having some > kind of gallery system set up (beyond the wiki which isn't quite > equipped for this) where we can share our work and comment on it, where > the community can easily browse and comment on it, and (nice bonus) even > have an RSS feed of artwork the general community can benefit from. YES!!!! > Tonight I started investigating some options we have towards this. A > great solution would be to have an install of the art.gnome.org software > or have something custom-built for us, but I don't think we have the > resources for something like that right now. So I've looked around at > some other options: > > 1) Have an art-specific Fedora planet feed - > > It would be something like http://art.planet.fedoraproject.org and it > would be a feed for artwork, not general blog posts. (E.g. you could > syndicate your deviant art portfolio feed or a flickr fedora art album > feed to this.) I was to lazy to act, but one of my old ideas was to run such an aggregator even on my own server. > Whichever other option we go with, it should produce suitable RSS feeds > so we should probably do this anyway. Send me your feeds (art, not blog) > and I'll make the request to set it up. > > 2) Set up a Deviant art community - > > So I set one up and played around with it, take a look: > > http://fedora-art.deviantart.com/ > > Disadvantages: > - the RSS feeds don't actually embed the image, they only provide a > link. (does anyone know if it embeds the image for paid subscription > accounts? I'd be willing to donate the $$ if so.) This is a real problem. Yes, one can pay for one subscription for the group but I guess the other members will like to have their own usable feeds. > 3) Flickr community > > I gave this a try too, take a look: > > http://www.flickr.com/groups/fedora-art/ Definitely: I hate you! Today I had to promote the RHM article at the first hour but can't do that because you give me a lot of work wih investigating those groups and communities you created :p > Disadvantages: > - theres a limit per month on how much you can upload per user account > (I think it's 50mb/month.) I think we can deal with 50MB > - flickr is focused entirely towards photos. while i read their terms of > service and made sure that it was okay for us to use for our purposes - > people won't be able to search for our artwork using the UI because it > seems they block non-photos from that according to their policy. I remember reading some time ago about flickr disabling accounts where the majority of the content is not photos. It may be true or not, but I think we do not want to use flickr against the will of the owners. > 4) Set up a version control repository - > > Disadvantages: > - high technical barrier to entry indeed, no version control > 5) Something else? I have a few more ideas: 6) picassaweb.google.com - it can be used by artists, give RSS feeds with thumbnails but does not have groups. It can be used if we go with only a planet aggregation. Major disadvantage: it support only jpg, not even png 7) the Infrastructure project plan to offer hosting space, developers.fedoraproject.org and people.fedoraproject.org: use this space and host our own solution ccHost is what we are using at http://openclipart.org - the software have a lot of features: users, feeds for everything, comments, ratings. Is not very mature in my experience but is sponsored by Creative Commons. Can be configured to use a lot of file types, including SVG. 8) again, in our own hosting space run an instance of Gallery (http://gallery.menalto.com/) - I don't have any experience with installation or administration, but from the website it seems it recently it gained support for RSS feeds -- nicu Cool Fedora wallpapers: http://fedora.nicubunu.ro/wallpapers/ Open Clip Art Library: http://www.openclipart.org my Fedora stuff: http://fedora.nicubunu.ro From ben.arnold.inbox at gmail.com Wed Feb 28 09:11:59 2007 From: ben.arnold.inbox at gmail.com (Ben Arnold) Date: Wed, 28 Feb 2007 09:11:59 +0000 Subject: which icon ? In-Reply-To: <8103729680304013478@unknownmsgid> References: <8103729680304013478@unknownmsgid> Message-ID: <9c3bfa1d0702280111u15256b5l7c8ed4e8eb03dde4@mail.gmail.com> Mola, I think 06 has a better contrast and will look better in smaller sizes. It's very 3D and fits with my user icons, too. Nice work, thanks. On 27/02/07, Mola Pahnadayan wrote: > hi all :) > > _______________________________________________ > Fedora-art-list mailing list > Fedora-art-list at redhat.com > http://www.redhat.com/mailman/listinfo/fedora-art-list > > > -- ..// seawolf //.. Ben Arnold e-mail / msn / icq / yahoo iamseawolf (at) gmail (dot) com http://clik.to/seawolfsanctuary fedora core : artwork GnuPG Available - ask me! From nicu_fedora at nicubunu.ro Wed Feb 28 13:10:47 2007 From: nicu_fedora at nicubunu.ro (Nicu Buculei) Date: Wed, 28 Feb 2007 15:10:47 +0200 Subject: artTeam Home Page Mockup In-Reply-To: <1172622229.9407.10.camel@localhost.localdomain> References: <484ace5d0702260541s2db0c148h6ddd2aa6bfd2c568@mail.gmail.com> <45E4CA7B.8040709@redhat.com> <1172622229.9407.10.camel@localhost.localdomain> Message-ID: <45E57F57.70501@nicubunu.ro> Paul W. Frields wrote: > On Tue, 2007-02-27 at 19:19 -0500, M?ir?n Duffy wrote: > [...snip...] >> (I do not think that putting together an >> extra theme package for (the artist formerly known as) extras requires >> working with Desktop team at all, although we will need someone with >> some packaging experience to help us put it together.) > > I'm not a packaging *guru*, but I've been packaging a few odds and ends > for a while now, and if I didn't mention it before, I'm happy to help > out with this part. Is possible to make a package that at install time change the wallpaper for all users? I think a package for an alternate theme should change: GRUB splash, RHGB screen, GDM theme, wallpaper. Maybe even the screensaver graphic, but I am not sure about that. -- nicu Cool Fedora wallpapers: http://fedora.nicubunu.ro/wallpapers/ Open Clip Art Library: http://www.openclipart.org my Fedora stuff: http://fedora.nicubunu.ro From nicu_fedora at nicubunu.ro Wed Feb 28 13:39:00 2007 From: nicu_fedora at nicubunu.ro (Nicu Buculei) Date: Wed, 28 Feb 2007 15:39:00 +0200 Subject: Red Hat Magazine: The Open Palette In-Reply-To: <45E4B673.8070804@redhat.com> References: <45E4B673.8070804@redhat.com> Message-ID: <45E585F4.4020602@nicubunu.ro> M?ir?n Duffy wrote: > > Check out Nicu's (with some help from me :) ) Inkscape article that just > got published to Red Hat Magazine today: > > http://www.redhatmagazine.com/2007/02/27/the-open-palettehow-to-use-inkscapes-new-blur-filter/ > > This syncs up with one of the long term team projects we've been > discussing recently - "FOSS Tools promotion and marketing" to show what > you can do with the tools available in Fedora. Luya asked for the tutorial to be published on the fedoraproject wiki. Unfortunately this is not possible due to license incompatibility with RHM, but we can link to it. This gave me an idea: if there are a number of tutorials authored by *project members* and published elsewhere we can create a page in the wiki listing them (restricted to tutorials from members to provide an incentive). I can go ahead to create such a page but don't want to create one linking only to my tutorials :p -- nicu Cool Fedora wallpapers: http://fedora.nicubunu.ro/wallpapers/ Open Clip Art Library: http://www.openclipart.org my Fedora stuff: http://fedora.nicubunu.ro From nicolas.mailhot at laposte.net Wed Feb 28 14:33:26 2007 From: nicolas.mailhot at laposte.net (Nicolas Mailhot) Date: Wed, 28 Feb 2007 15:33:26 +0100 (CET) Subject: artTeam Home Page Mockup In-Reply-To: <45E57F57.70501@nicubunu.ro> References: <484ace5d0702260541s2db0c148h6ddd2aa6bfd2c568@mail.gmail.com> <45E4CA7B.8040709@redhat.com> <1172622229.9407.10.camel@localhost.localdomain> <45E57F57.70501@nicubunu.ro> Message-ID: <11074.192.54.193.51.1172673206.squirrel@rousalka.dyndns.org> Le Mer 28 f?vrier 2007 14:10, Nicu Buculei a ?crit : > Paul W. Frields wrote: >> On Tue, 2007-02-27 at 19:19 -0500, M?ir?n Duffy wrote: >> [...snip...] >>> (I do not think that putting together an >>> extra theme package for (the artist formerly known as) extras requires >>> working with Desktop team at all, although we will need someone with >>> some packaging experience to help us put it together.) >> >> I'm not a packaging *guru*, but I've been packaging a few odds and ends >> for a while now, and if I didn't mention it before, I'm happy to help >> out with this part. > > Is possible to make a package that at install time change the wallpaper > for all users? > I think a package for an alternate theme should change: GRUB splash, > RHGB screen, GDM theme, wallpaper. Maybe even the screensaver graphic, > but I am not sure about that. Please don't. This is the kind of heavy-handed intervention that makes users mad. What you can do is create aliases with names like "default" and change what they point at from release to release. Meaning that users who accepted to use distro defaults will get the changes, and others won't have their loved custom setup stepped on. For example I used DNA wallpaper and it changed to balloons recently. I could get mad - I didn't select "default wallpaper" in the list but "DNA wallpaper", it shouldn't have changed at the whim of the Desktop team. -- Nicolas Mailhot From nicu_fedora at nicubunu.ro Wed Feb 28 15:14:13 2007 From: nicu_fedora at nicubunu.ro (Nicu Buculei) Date: Wed, 28 Feb 2007 17:14:13 +0200 Subject: artTeam Home Page Mockup In-Reply-To: <11074.192.54.193.51.1172673206.squirrel@rousalka.dyndns.org> References: <484ace5d0702260541s2db0c148h6ddd2aa6bfd2c568@mail.gmail.com> <45E4CA7B.8040709@redhat.com> <1172622229.9407.10.camel@localhost.localdomain> <45E57F57.70501@nicubunu.ro> <11074.192.54.193.51.1172673206.squirrel@rousalka.dyndns.org> Message-ID: <45E59C45.7080602@nicubunu.ro> Nicolas Mailhot wrote: >> I think a package for an alternate theme should change: GRUB splash, >> RHGB screen, GDM theme, wallpaper. Maybe even the screensaver graphic, >> but I am not sure about that. > > Please don't. This is the kind of heavy-handed intervention that makes > users mad. But only it the user install the rpm by himself. Otherwise why use rpm at all? Just provide a gallery with wallpapers and we are set. > What you can do is create aliases with names like "default" and change > what they point at from release to release. Meaning that users who > accepted to use distro defaults will get the changes, and others won't > have their loved custom setup stepped on. > > For example I used DNA wallpaper and it changed to balloons recently. I > could get mad - I didn't select "default wallpaper" in the list but "DNA > wallpaper", it shouldn't have changed at the whim of the Desktop team. What other way to you see to provide alternate graphics for GRUB and RHGB? Those can be changed only by overwriting the default and making GDM and wallpaper fit may be seen as a move for consistency. Remember, this is about a package the user consciously select and install. -- nicu Cool Fedora wallpapers: http://fedora.nicubunu.ro/wallpapers/ Open Clip Art Library: http://www.openclipart.org my Fedora stuff: http://fedora.nicubunu.ro From mclasen at redhat.com Wed Feb 28 15:43:02 2007 From: mclasen at redhat.com (Matthias Clasen) Date: Wed, 28 Feb 2007 10:43:02 -0500 Subject: artTeam Home Page Mockup In-Reply-To: <45E57F57.70501@nicubunu.ro> References: <484ace5d0702260541s2db0c148h6ddd2aa6bfd2c568@mail.gmail.com> <45E4CA7B.8040709@redhat.com> <1172622229.9407.10.camel@localhost.localdomain> <45E57F57.70501@nicubunu.ro> Message-ID: <1172677382.2497.5.camel@dhcp83-33.boston.redhat.com> On Wed, 2007-02-28 at 15:10 +0200, Nicu Buculei wrote: > Paul W. Frields wrote: > > On Tue, 2007-02-27 at 19:19 -0500, M?ir?n Duffy wrote: > > [...snip...] > >> (I do not think that putting together an > >> extra theme package for (the artist formerly known as) extras requires > >> working with Desktop team at all, although we will need someone with > >> some packaging experience to help us put it together.) > > > > I'm not a packaging *guru*, but I've been packaging a few odds and ends > > for a while now, and if I didn't mention it before, I'm happy to help > > out with this part. > > Is possible to make a package that at install time change the wallpaper > for all users? > I think a package for an alternate theme should change: GRUB splash, > RHGB screen, GDM theme, wallpaper. Maybe even the screensaver graphic, > but I am not sure about that. > Please don't. In general, installing a package should not change user configuration. From nicolas.mailhot at laposte.net Wed Feb 28 16:05:26 2007 From: nicolas.mailhot at laposte.net (Nicolas Mailhot) Date: Wed, 28 Feb 2007 17:05:26 +0100 (CET) Subject: artTeam Home Page Mockup In-Reply-To: <45E59C45.7080602@nicubunu.ro> References: <484ace5d0702260541s2db0c148h6ddd2aa6bfd2c568@mail.gmail.com> <45E4CA7B.8040709@redhat.com> <1172622229.9407.10.camel@localhost.localdomain> <45E57F57.70501@nicubunu.ro> <11074.192.54.193.51.1172673206.squirrel@rousalka.dyndns.org> <45E59C45.7080602@nicubunu.ro> Message-ID: <64918.192.54.193.51.1172678726.squirrel@rousalka.dyndns.org> Le Mer 28 f?vrier 2007 16:14, Nicu Buculei a ?crit : > What other way to you see to provide alternate graphics for GRUB and RHGB? > Those can be changed only by overwriting the default and making GDM and > wallpaper fit may be seen as a move for consistency. > Remember, this is about a package the user consciously select and install. A package can install alternative ressources, provide documentation or a script to switch to those resources (and back), but you don't ever do the switch by default. The user/admin is in charge, not the package, separation of installation and configuration is a basic Fedora rule. Installing KDE does not kill GNOME, installing a new GNOME theme package does not kill other GNOME themes, apps do not fill the desktop with icons because they're so important they deserve a place there, we can have several OS localizations on the same system, etc The user installed my package therefore I own the system is plain rude. If RHBG and GRUB have no theming provision that's too bad, you'll have to fill RFEs and wait, it's still better than alienating users with high-handed takeovers. -- Nicolas Mailhot From sundaram at fedoraproject.org Wed Feb 28 16:30:13 2007 From: sundaram at fedoraproject.org (Rahul Sundaram) Date: Wed, 28 Feb 2007 22:00:13 +0530 Subject: Red Hat Magazine: The Open Palette In-Reply-To: <45E585F4.4020602@nicubunu.ro> References: <45E4B673.8070804@redhat.com> <45E585F4.4020602@nicubunu.ro> Message-ID: <45E5AE15.3000701@fedoraproject.org> Nicu Buculei wrote: > M?ir?n Duffy wrote: >> >> Check out Nicu's (with some help from me :) ) Inkscape article that >> just got published to Red Hat Magazine today: >> >> http://www.redhatmagazine.com/2007/02/27/the-open-palettehow-to-use-inkscapes-new-blur-filter/ >> >> This syncs up with one of the long term team projects we've been >> discussing recently - "FOSS Tools promotion and marketing" to show >> what you can do with the tools available in Fedora. > > Luya asked for the tutorial to be published on the fedoraproject wiki. > Unfortunately this is not possible due to license incompatibility with > RHM, but we can link to it. > This gave me an idea: if there are a number of tutorials authored by > *project members* and published elsewhere we can create a page in the > wiki listing them (restricted to tutorials from members to provide an > incentive). > I can go ahead to create such a page but don't want to create one > linking only to my tutorials :p Red Hat magazine articles fall under a creative commons license after a period of time. I have seen the articles being republished verbatim in other places. Rahul From duffy at redhat.com Wed Feb 28 16:33:10 2007 From: duffy at redhat.com (=?ISO-8859-1?Q?M=E1ir=EDn_Duffy?=) Date: Wed, 28 Feb 2007 11:33:10 -0500 Subject: Red Hat Magazine: The Open Palette In-Reply-To: <45E5AE15.3000701@fedoraproject.org> References: <45E4B673.8070804@redhat.com> <45E585F4.4020602@nicubunu.ro> <45E5AE15.3000701@fedoraproject.org> Message-ID: <45E5AEC6.7090309@redhat.com> Rahul Sundaram wrote: > Red Hat magazine articles fall under a creative commons license after a > period of time. I have seen the articles being republished verbatim in > other places. Yeh, I believe the time period is six months. ~m From baerjj at gmail.com Wed Feb 28 18:43:04 2007 From: baerjj at gmail.com (John Baer) Date: Wed, 28 Feb 2007 13:43:04 -0500 Subject: artTeam Home Page Mockup Message-ID: <484ace5d0702281043i344a8ce3w8aed3d33c466ddaa@mail.gmail.com> All, The ArtTeam mockup is looking too good (thanks Mo) to stay in my SandBox so I moved it a new home. http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/ArtTeam I do not know what url makes the most sense "/wiki/ArtTeam", or "/wiki/ArtWork/ArtTeam", or "wiki/FedoraTeams/Art" but in my mind the first choice was logical. :) Please feel free to rename the page. My desire is to clear the .../SandBox to start mockups for some of the other pages we discussed. Cheers, John -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: