María Leandro tatica at fedoraproject.org
Wed May 6 22:05:33 UTC 2009

Hello all.

Between lines:

2009/5/7 Máirín Duffy <mairin at linuxgrrl.com>:
> ----- Original Message ----
>> From: Rodrigo Padula de Oliveira <rodrigopadula at projetofedora.org>
>> Not complicated, but with a logo or symbol about the name/release.
> We haven't had a logo in the wallpaper since F8. The wallpaper uses the same base artwork/theme as the more knock-you-over-the-head artwork so it matches fine.
>> I think a blue screen with some effects isn't the best wallpaper for
>> Fedora 11.
>> Fedora 10 had a sun
>> Fedora 9 waves
>> Fedora 8 transition effect during the day
> This was an extremely abstract rendering. F8 and F9 both had transition effects.
> Just because things were done one way in the past doesn't mean that way was the best way or the way to go now. As has been discussed on this list extensively over the past couple of years, we're looking to tone down the artwork a lot more and make it a bit more elegant and not knock-you-over-the-head-with-something-thematic-in-every-single-available-space-used-for-artwork.

I think that we were fine with the F6, F7 and F8 wallpapers; and the
change was a little bit too hard. I said this before and is my
personal opinion. I send some test in the past but I was really
working with other issues. Besides my English isn't so good, and
sometimes I just don't want to give an answer for not make a mistake.

>> My sugestion isn't to "voting on every bug and issue that comes up", but
>> voting on artwork options for every Fedora Release to take a direction
>> (not a final decision), to have feedback from the people that spread and
>> use Fedora around the world.
> I'm sorry, I must have misunderstood. I thought you were talking about the decision to not have the lion on the left screen wallpaper by default. The decision to go with the lion wallpaper was made very much as a group discussion, discussed and agonized over thoroughly on-list and over IRC.
> The last time we did a vote was a disaster. We were getting multiple art team FAS group requests daily from people who wanted to vote. Too bad we don't normally get that many requests from people who actually want to help produce artwork.

There are a lot of solutions for this. For example, take the voting in
2 sections:

60% of the current art team
40% of a free vote

Is really important to get the users opinions. They will use fedora
and the artwork (for me) is one of the most important issues. The
users (noobs or pro) will see the wallpaper everyday, this is really

>> I'm talking constantly with Maria Leandro, Jayme and more recently
>> Samuele and nobody knew about the changes and decisions taked about the
>> wallpaper/Lion.
> Ultimately, as the team lead of the art team, I am responsible for when these decisions have to be made. I am the person who has to stay up all night and work to make deadlines, giving up my free time up to get things done when it isn't getting done. This is a role I truly do not enjoy, as it seems that the artwork is ALWAYS controversial, release after release. There is no way to satisfy everyone with the artwork. When one person is happy, there are 5 others who are upset about it. Change things to make those 5 people happy, then there are 20 more who are unhappy.

We all do that Mairin. In different ways we all give something from
our lives to the project. Is true that you take the mayor
responsibility and always there is a group of persons who never get
satisfied, but there are ways to know if the artwork (in this case)
goes on the right line. Like I said, polls, interviews, comments, free
suggestions need to be done frequently.

> Samuele went on vacation for a long time. Unfortunately, the deadlines for this team do not get to go on vacation. We were getting many complaints about the lion being in the wallpaper by default, and a decision had to be made. If I had held a vote, Samuele wouldn't have been there to vote. It is unfortunate that the artwork we went with was submitted so late (well past the deadline). The quality of the artwork is what drove us to make an exception to the deadline, but this obviously left us very shorthanded on time to deal with issues that cropped up such as the incessant complaints about the lion being too busy. Perhaps if the artwork had been submitted according to the schedule, we would have had more time to deliberate on how to handle the user complaints.
> Please read the archives. Please. I just had to take time out of my incredibly busy day to dig these links out for you. I would greatly appreciate if you would honor that by reading these threads before continuing this discussion.
> Thread: "Artwork Feedback" start here: https://www.redhat.com/archives/fedora-art-list/2009-April/msg00070.html
> Thread: "Leonidas background brightness" start here: https://www.redhat.com/archives/fedora-art-list/2009-April/msg00137.html
> Thread: "Leonidas backgrounds" start here: https://www.redhat.com/archives/fedora-art-list/2009-April/msg00132.html
> Thread: "Improving Leonidas backgrounds" start here: https://www.redhat.com/archives/fedora-art-list/2009-April/msg00141.html
> Message (Schedule reminder) https://www.redhat.com/archives/fedora-art-list/2009-April/msg00160.html
> Thread: "Wallpaper for F11" https://www.redhat.com/archives/fedora-art-list/2009-April/msg00255.html
>> If this process is open, clear and etc why these members, member of this
>> list don't knew about this decision ?
> If they were following the list, they would have as documented above. If Samuele, Maria, and Jayme have issues I would rather hear from them directly than second hand, okay? I saw Samuele's message about the changes and after the discussion that had ensured I had thought the confusion had been cleared up. I have not heard from either Maria or Jayme about their concerns as of yet so that is news to me.

I think this isn't necessary. This is not like "who say and who didn't
read a thread". Is right that I hasn't been reading every thread of
the Fedora11 discussion; my mistake.; I also have a huge
responsibility working on a lot of LATAM events, on Spanish artwork,
Users support for new users, working on several things of the Design
Service, and more.

Since the selection of the name for this version, was very
controversial, so isn't a surprise to find this kind of things.

>> For me this decision impacts all users/contributors/ambassadors, but the
>> decision isn't clear and isn't open!
> You tell me how it isn't open after reading the threads above.
>> Samule saved us again, this time from a Windows XP Like wallpaper, but,
>> unfortunately the beautiful wallpaper was ripped!
>> Our artwork team is great and is doing a GREAT JOB, but, we need to
>> improve the decision process.
> If anyone would like to step up as art team leader, please let me know, as I no longer wish to hold the position.

We need a lot of new ideas; more people working on themes. I've seen
that in the past 2 versions, people don't send many artwork as they
did before. This is the point that we need to take care; I'm really
sure that if we recruit a new group of people we'll get the work done
in time.

And if the people won't join the Art team, we can make a poll... and
if not, we can make a contest... and if not, we can make a public
brainstorm... and if not....

We can do a lot of thing Máirín, but patience is at the top of the
list. I join the team only because I love your graphics and Nicu's
cartoons; for me, this means a lot.

Good night.

Maria Gracia Leandro
LinuxUser= 440285
GPG Public Key: E1CDCC56
"Be yourself... Don't be anyone else"

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