From occy at occy.net Fri Nov 7 19:27:06 2003 From: occy at occy.net (Trae McCombs) Date: Fri, 07 Nov 2003 14:27:06 -0500 Subject: [Fedora-desktop-list] Introduction and letter of intent to help as I can. Message-ID: <1068233225.18829.40.camel@sooner> Hi everyone, I've noticed several people sending in introductions to the fedora-devel-list, and no one has said it was a bad idea, so here goes... My name is Trae McCombs, I used to go by "OctobrX" in the olden days. I had a hand somewhat in the Linux community development by building the original themes.org website(with much help from a great community of volunteers I might add). I was later on hired by VA to build Linux.com, and we built a really great community website that had a team of developers building, adding, and generating content. At any rate, I'm very pleased to see that one of my pictures, frosty_pipes.jpg was selected to be in the desktop-backgrounds-extra package. I want to continue to see the Fedora desktop grow into something that we can all(and we already should be) be very proud of. I would also like to give big kudos to Garrett and all of the Redhat Desktop team for doing some EXTREMELY nice work so far. They have, for the most part, cured me of searching around endlessly for different desktop setups. I'll send another email outlining some of my gripes, small as they are, with how things can be done to improve FC1+. I look forward to working with you all and helping out as I can. Sincerely yours, Trae McCombs -- Trae "occy" McCombs http://occy.net/ founder: themes.org / linux.com From kreg at virtual1.net Fri Nov 7 20:48:30 2003 From: kreg at virtual1.net (Kreg Steppe) Date: Fri, 07 Nov 2003 15:48:30 -0500 Subject: [Fedora-desktop-list] Introduction Message-ID: <3FAC051E.5040508@virtual1.net> Hello all, I am Kreg Steppe. It all started with my Commodore 64, (fast forward) now I have been in the computer arena for 17years. (Has it been that short?) If there is a job in this industry, I have probably done it at some point in time. I currently work as a Web Developer (Dream Job) where I code with PHP, Python, some perl constantly learning something about CSS, and are also trying to pick up PyGTK. I also consider myself an amature, amature cartoonist. I have been using linux since RH 5.2, which led to me eventually getting my RHCE. I also have some certs from another large software firm as well. With some inspiration from that 'Bluecurve guy', Garrett, I have been taking up Digital photography. I do enjoy working on icons, and wallpapers trying to improve the look and feel of my favorite os, So I offer my meager Gimping skills. I am almost embarrassed to post this but here is a sample of some stuff I did and posted on kde-look.org last year. http://www.kde-look.org/usermanager/search.php?username=caldroun I also have a Blog that I post to from time to time. http://www.spyndle.com Kreg P.S. I also will give props to the RH desktop team...leading up to Fedora all previous Redhat Releases have gotten progressively better. Fedora is no exception. Here's to a great job. From linux at zygar.com Fri Nov 7 21:44:27 2003 From: linux at zygar.com (Ryan J. Zygar) Date: Fri, 07 Nov 2003 13:44:27 -0800 Subject: [Fedora-desktop-list] Introduction Message-ID: <1068241467.4105.39.camel@AbbaZabba> Hello all, I am Ryan Zygar. I am a linux hobbyist who has been using linux for since 99. I started with Caldera as my first distro and made the transition to Redhat at 5.2 also. Currently I am know deploying linux as my primary desktop with an XP share the other side. I remember along time ago making a post to Garrett Lesage's website about the need for someone creative, as himself, to join up with the Redhat Team and make cool backgrounds or something to contribute to that cause. At the time all that I could find was Debian related backgrounds and support. For a short stint I actually used Debian on a box for awhile. So I was really excited when Garrett started work at Redhat. Maybe I contributed :-) I work in Land Development/Construction Industry and use Linux as my primary desktop for all the work that I have day in day out. I can only offer usability input, and some photography. I have some creative desktop screenshots here: www.zygar.com/sshots You wil see a lot of your backgrounds also! In IRC usually I go by hendershot. From jcsitte at staticnull.org Sat Nov 8 04:50:58 2003 From: jcsitte at staticnull.org (Jonathan C. Sitte) Date: Fri, 07 Nov 2003 23:50:58 -0500 Subject: [Fedora-desktop-list] Welcome all. Message-ID: <3FAC7632.3000201@staticnull.org> -----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- Hash: SHA1 I am insterested in working on some digital imagery with you all. Let us start the talk. What have I missed so far? - -- Jonathan C. Sitte -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: GnuPG v1.2.2 (GNU/Linux) Comment: Using GnuPG with Mozilla - http://enigmail.mozdev.org iD8DBQE/rHYyA60L5My8BKQRAsYaAKCedmXPUSg5ga80NJLnWlLyb/LIfACeNk4U prxJoRWFNXhgyZBYmiV/cCA= =E6eB -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- From kreg at virtual1.net Sat Nov 8 05:18:26 2003 From: kreg at virtual1.net (Kreg Steppe) Date: Sat, 08 Nov 2003 00:18:26 -0500 Subject: [Fedora-desktop-list] Welcome all. In-Reply-To: <3FAC7632.3000201@staticnull.org> References: <3FAC7632.3000201@staticnull.org> Message-ID: <3FAC7CA2.70306@virtual1.net> This is a new list.. You really haven't missed anything except about 3 of us introducing ourselves. Kreg Jonathan C. Sitte wrote: > -----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- > Hash: SHA1 > > I am insterested in working on some digital imagery with you all. Let us > start the talk. What have I missed so far? > - -- > Jonathan C. Sitte > -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- > Version: GnuPG v1.2.2 (GNU/Linux) > Comment: Using GnuPG with Mozilla - http://enigmail.mozdev.org > > iD8DBQE/rHYyA60L5My8BKQRAsYaAKCedmXPUSg5ga80NJLnWlLyb/LIfACeNk4U > prxJoRWFNXhgyZBYmiV/cCA= > =E6eB > -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- > > > -- > Fedora-desktop-list mailing list > Fedora-desktop-list at redhat.com > http://www.redhat.com/mailman/listinfo/fedora-desktop-list From jcsitte at staticnull.org Sat Nov 8 05:21:40 2003 From: jcsitte at staticnull.org (Jonathan C. Sitte) Date: Sat, 08 Nov 2003 00:21:40 -0500 Subject: [Fedora-desktop-list] Welcome all. In-Reply-To: <3FAC7CA2.70306@virtual1.net> References: <3FAC7632.3000201@staticnull.org> <3FAC7CA2.70306@virtual1.net> Message-ID: <3FAC7D64.6000401@staticnull.org> -----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- Hash: SHA1 Kreg Steppe wrote: | This is a new list.. You really haven't missed anything except about 3 | of us introducing ourselves. Ok. Here is my resume then: Name: Jonathan C. Sitte Address: 345 East 94th Street Apt 26B, New York, NY 10128 US Email: jcsitte at staticnull.org Cellular: 917.414.2559 Home: 212.831.5578 URL: http://www.staticnull.org/jcsitte/ Title: Digital Photographer - Linux System Administrator Resume: 20030909 Objective: To work with digital photography, web design, and digital video production in the work place or freelance. Also able to work with the installation and maintenance of Linux workstations and servers. Target Job: Digital Photographer Alternate Job: Linux Systems Administrator Job Type: Employee, Intern, Temporary/Contract/Project Status: Full-Time, Part-Time Salary: 40,000.00 USD Per Year (Negotiable) Site Location: New York City Area Availability: Immediately Work Status: US - I am authorized to work in this country for any employer. Experience: Chronological starting from present Date: 2003/02 - Present Company: Staticnull.org Location: Net Based Title: Website Administrator, Web Designer, Technical Support Description: To maintain, create and support users belonging to the site. Also to maintain and update the site design and information. Date: 2002/09 - 2003/01 Company: Woolworks Location: Princeton, NJ Title: Web Design Description: Freelance web design. The site is not up or finished. Date: 2001/07 - 2002/12 Company: Cheaphostonline.com Location: Net Based Title: Technical Support Description: Help people with maintaining their web sites. Date: 2000/10 - 2001/09 Company: Planet Hollywood Location: Baltimore, MD Title: Waiter Description: Serve people food. Date: 1999/08 - 2001/01 Company: Commons Security Location: Baltimore, MD Title: Front Desk Security Description: Make sure that the Commons (dorms) were safe. Date: 1996/03 - 1998/08 Company: Cinnabon Location: Glen Burnie, MD Title: Shift Manager Description: Basic managing of the store during evening shifts. Education: Chronological starting from present Date: 1998/08 - 2002/06 School: Maryland Institute, College of Art Location: Baltimore, MD Degree: Bachelor of Fine Arts - Concentration in Digital Arts Date: 1994/09 - 1998/05 School: Glen Burnie High School Location: Glen Burnie, MD Degree: High School Diploma Software: Separated by Open Source and Proprietary Software Open Source: Ardour, Blender, Cinelerra, CinePaint (FilmGimp), GIMP, Kino, OpenOffice.org, Protux, Sodipodi Proprietary: Adobe Acrobat, Adobe Dimensions, Adobe After Effects, Adobe GoLive, Adobe Illustrator, Adobe InDesign, Adobe Photoshop, Adobe PageMaker, Adobe Premiere, DVD Studio Pro, Final Cut Pro, Macromedia Director, Macromedia Dreamweaver, Macromedia Fireworks, Macromedia Flash, Macromedia Freehand, MainActor, Maya, Microsoft Office, QuarkXPress Operation Systems: Separated by Open Source and Proprietary Software Open Source: Conectiva Linux, Debian GNU/Linux, FreeBSD, Gentoo Linux, GNOPPIX, KNOPPIX, Mandrake Linux, Red Hat Linux, Slackware Linux, SuSE Linux, Turbo Linux, United Linux, Yellow Dog Linux, Xandros Proprietary: Mac OS 9, Mac OS X, Solaris, Windows 95, Windows 98, Windows NT, Windows ME, Windows 2000 Professional, Windows 2000 Server, Windows 2000 Advanced Server, Windows XP Home Edition, Windows XP Professional References: On request - -- Jonathan C. Sitte -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: GnuPG v1.2.2 (GNU/Linux) Comment: Using GnuPG with Mozilla - http://enigmail.mozdev.org iD8DBQE/rH1kA60L5My8BKQRAlIHAJ4w/IxzUAD1+Mn6nOJy2l4APx9n4QCeLw0D h39pr7XSIXJOnKhSIO0R76k= =LmQ6 -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- From jcsitte at staticnull.org Sat Nov 8 05:24:18 2003 From: jcsitte at staticnull.org (Jonathan C. Sitte) Date: Sat, 08 Nov 2003 00:24:18 -0500 Subject: [Fedora-desktop-list] Welcome all. In-Reply-To: <3FAC7D64.6000401@staticnull.org> References: <3FAC7632.3000201@staticnull.org> <3FAC7CA2.70306@virtual1.net> <3FAC7D64.6000401@staticnull.org> Message-ID: <3FAC7E02.5040804@staticnull.org> -----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- Hash: SHA1 Jonathan C. Sitte wrote: | Ok. Here is my resume then: Note I am not expecting to get paid ;) This is my hobbie if you can call it that. - -- Jonathan C. Sitte -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: GnuPG v1.2.2 (GNU/Linux) Comment: Using GnuPG with Mozilla - http://enigmail.mozdev.org iD8DBQE/rH4CA60L5My8BKQRAuhzAJ9wmIHftJV793PL+dectAbUIvpnXgCgnKt4 sxq+uMVPByanuYdNbJypmXI= =sGwr -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- From kreg at virtual1.net Sat Nov 8 06:12:03 2003 From: kreg at virtual1.net (Kreg Steppe) Date: Sat, 08 Nov 2003 01:12:03 -0500 Subject: [Fedora-desktop-list] Welcome all. In-Reply-To: <3FAC7E02.5040804@staticnull.org> References: <3FAC7632.3000201@staticnull.org> <3FAC7CA2.70306@virtual1.net> <3FAC7D64.6000401@staticnull.org> <3FAC7E02.5040804@staticnull.org> Message-ID: <3FAC8933.5010901@virtual1.net> You mean we aren't getting paid?!? crap. j/k Jonathan C. Sitte wrote: > -----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- > Hash: SHA1 > > Jonathan C. Sitte wrote: > | Ok. Here is my resume then: > > Note I am not expecting to get paid ;) This is my hobbie if you can call > it that. > - -- > Jonathan C. Sitte > -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- > Version: GnuPG v1.2.2 (GNU/Linux) > Comment: Using GnuPG with Mozilla - http://enigmail.mozdev.org > > iD8DBQE/rH4CA60L5My8BKQRAuhzAJ9wmIHftJV793PL+dectAbUIvpnXgCgnKt4 > sxq+uMVPByanuYdNbJypmXI= > =sGwr > -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- > > > -- > Fedora-desktop-list mailing list > Fedora-desktop-list at redhat.com > http://www.redhat.com/mailman/listinfo/fedora-desktop-list From jcsitte at staticnull.org Sat Nov 8 15:41:25 2003 From: jcsitte at staticnull.org (Jonathan C. Sitte) Date: Sat, 08 Nov 2003 10:41:25 -0500 Subject: [Fedora-desktop-list] Let's get started. Message-ID: <3FAD0EA5.8050802@staticnull.org> -----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- Hash: SHA1 To start let us start with something really simple. I think we all have the tools for creating icons. Give me a list of icons in FC1 that need to be made or updated. I do not know how we are going to do things together in an integrated way. I am sure Mr. Bluecurve can give us some inside info on that. I have an everything install so I can see every icon in GNOME and KDE. To start I can tell you that Mozilla Mail has a terrible icon. We should update it to comply with Bluecurve. I noticed that there is already one for Mozilla Mail Message: /usr/share/icons/Bluecurve/48x48/apps/mozilla-compose-icon.png This may also intail not creating icons but using the ones that already exist. For the icons that already exist it would be as simple as contacting the package maintainer about it to change the default menu icon. Back to tools. I know that I am not made of cash so I use Linux exclusively for all my work. I will be able to contribute Raster and Vector graphics via Gimp, Gimp Devel and Sodipodi as my main programs. We should all decide on what file formats (example: XCF possible for Raster?) we should be working with for a unified database of work online. It would be nice to have a online server where we can all trade ideas alsa with user folders. I am sure there is already a system set up. Let us know how things are done. The hard part would vector graphics and templates. Gimp and photoshop play pretty well together when it comes to psd files. Vector graphics will be the hard part. Sodipodi still has a long way to go but Gimp Devel is getting there. I have not really made that many icons so please inform me what has been used to make them for Bluecurve. That is about it for now. Cheers, - -- Jonathan C. Sitte -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: GnuPG v1.2.2 (GNU/Linux) Comment: Using GnuPG with Mozilla - http://enigmail.mozdev.org iD8DBQE/rQ6lA60L5My8BKQRAqfPAJwJ5iA2xFsoKXw3JUoqJEoQ/ZII1gCgmYuB BAKR7JPc7uo03d4O9kAN93E= =6Dus -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- From tony at tgds.net Sat Nov 8 16:15:32 2003 From: tony at tgds.net (tony) Date: Sat, 08 Nov 2003 17:15:32 +0100 Subject: [Fedora-desktop-list] Let's get started. In-Reply-To: <3FAD0EA5.8050802@staticnull.org> References: <3FAD0EA5.8050802@staticnull.org> Message-ID: <1068308131.6375.24.camel@localhost.localdomain> Le sam 08/11/2003 ? 16:41, Jonathan C. Sitte a ?crit : > The hard part would vector graphics and templates. Gimp and photoshop > play pretty well together when it comes to psd files. Vector graphics > will be the hard part. Sodipodi still has a long way to go but Gimp > Devel is getting there. I have not really made that many icons so please > inform me what has been used to make them for Bluecurve. I tried installing Gimp to check out the SVG stuff but it won't play nice with my RH 9 + Ximian Desktop2. SVG graphics crash Nautilus hard... SVG is where Linux is a little behind - no SVG pluggin browser support! Opera maybe??? I have a Freehand licence (Dreamweaver MX Studio). And I also have a G3 Mac with all the graphics kit on board from a previous life =:-p Icons I usually do the hard way pixel by pixel in Gimp. Cheers Tony Grant -- WWW.tgds.net | Logiciels de gestion de centre d'art | H?bergement de bases de donn?es en ligne | hush - ordinateurs silencieux pour biblioth?ques, documentations et bureaux From jcsitte at staticnull.org Sat Nov 8 16:26:31 2003 From: jcsitte at staticnull.org (Jonathan C. Sitte) Date: Sat, 08 Nov 2003 11:26:31 -0500 Subject: [Fedora-desktop-list] Let's get started. In-Reply-To: <1068308131.6375.24.camel@localhost.localdomain> References: <3FAD0EA5.8050802@staticnull.org> <1068308131.6375.24.camel@localhost.localdomain> Message-ID: <3FAD1937.70808@staticnull.org> -----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- Hash: SHA1 tony wrote: | I tried installing Gimp to check out the SVG stuff but it won't play | nice with my RH 9 + Ximian Desktop2. SVG graphics crash Nautilus hard... | SVG is where Linux is a little behind - no SVG pluggin browser support! | Opera maybe??? Well we need to work on this some more. It would be nice to have a OSS software for vector graphics on Linux. We should push the vector graphics developers into gear. | I have a Freehand license (Dreamweaver MX Studio). And I also have a G3 | Mac with all the graphics kit on board from a previous life =:-p This was something I think we should take very seriously. I am glad that you have said that you have a license for your proprietary software. We need to enforce that if people use Adobe, Macromedia etc then they must have legal copies of the software. I personally do not want to work with people that are using illegal software. That would not effect the person using the software illegally but us as well, the Fedora project and Red hat itself. We do not want to get sued. | Icons I usually do the hard way pixel by pixel in Gimp. That sounds like a good way to do it. Anyone else have a way that they make icons? What about that list of applications that need icons now ;) - -- Jonathan C. Sitte -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: GnuPG v1.2.2 (GNU/Linux) Comment: Using GnuPG with Mozilla - http://enigmail.mozdev.org iD8DBQE/rRk3A60L5My8BKQRAre7AJ4yg1WJPJOV0FYYo4fazOW/CWiZSACgtcol 5kqM5YD5pRtjbZh8Xze7E1w= =sbkY -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- From kreg at virtual1.net Sat Nov 8 17:24:20 2003 From: kreg at virtual1.net (Kreg Steppe) Date: Sat, 08 Nov 2003 12:24:20 -0500 Subject: [Fedora-desktop-list] Let's get started. In-Reply-To: <3FAD1937.70808@staticnull.org> References: <3FAD0EA5.8050802@staticnull.org> <1068308131.6375.24.camel@localhost.localdomain> <3FAD1937.70808@staticnull.org> Message-ID: <3FAD26C4.9080901@virtual1.net> I think that Garrett has a lot of insight on this (I have a super power, the ability to point out the obvious) I know that he creates icon sheets (one big image with a grid), and makes use of some xml files and a program called icon-slicer. What slicer will do is take that sheet and split it into individual files. makes it a lot easier for management. You can check out the fedora-artwork, or is it still called redhat-artwork, out of CVS and see all of this. As which programs he uses I thought that he was making use of Adobe Illustrator. I have been trying out sodipodi, and the new GIMP. Kreg Jonathan C. Sitte wrote: > -----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- > Hash: SHA1 > > tony wrote: > | I tried installing Gimp to check out the SVG stuff but it won't play > | nice with my RH 9 + Ximian Desktop2. SVG graphics crash Nautilus hard... > | SVG is where Linux is a little behind - no SVG pluggin browser support! > | Opera maybe??? > > Well we need to work on this some more. It would be nice to have a OSS > software for vector graphics on Linux. We should push the vector > graphics developers into gear. > > | I have a Freehand license (Dreamweaver MX Studio). And I also have a G3 > | Mac with all the graphics kit on board from a previous life =:-p > > This was something I think we should take very seriously. I am glad that > you have said that you have a license for your proprietary software. We > need to enforce that if people use Adobe, Macromedia etc then they must > have legal copies of the software. I personally do not want to work with > people that are using illegal software. That would not effect the person > using the software illegally but us as well, the Fedora project and Red > hat itself. We do not want to get sued. > > | Icons I usually do the hard way pixel by pixel in Gimp. > > That sounds like a good way to do it. Anyone else have a way that they > make icons? What about that list of applications that need icons now ;) > - -- > Jonathan C. Sitte > -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- > Version: GnuPG v1.2.2 (GNU/Linux) > Comment: Using GnuPG with Mozilla - http://enigmail.mozdev.org > > iD8DBQE/rRk3A60L5My8BKQRAre7AJ4yg1WJPJOV0FYYo4fazOW/CWiZSACgtcol > 5kqM5YD5pRtjbZh8Xze7E1w= > =sbkY > -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- > > > -- > Fedora-desktop-list mailing list > Fedora-desktop-list at redhat.com > http://www.redhat.com/mailman/listinfo/fedora-desktop-list From alex.msilva at uol.com.br Sat Nov 8 17:48:49 2003 From: alex.msilva at uol.com.br (Alexander Martins) Date: Sat, 08 Nov 2003 15:48:49 -0200 Subject: [Fedora-desktop-list] Hi Message-ID: <3FAD2C81.5050606@uol.com.br> Hi, /tony wrote: | I tried installing Gimp to check out the SVG stuff but it won't play | nice with my RH 9 + Ximian Desktop2. SVG graphics crash Nautilus hard... | SVG is where Linux is a little behind - no SVG pluggin browser support! | Opera maybe???/ / / /| Well we need to work on this some more. It would be nice to have a OSS | software for vector graphics on Linux. We should push the vector | graphics developers into gear./ / / /| I have a Freehand license (Dreamweaver MX Studio). And I also have a G3 | Mac with all the graphics kit on board from a previous life =:-p/ / / /| This was something I think we should take very seriously. I am glad that |you have said that you have a license for your proprietary software. We | need to enforce that if people use Adobe, Macromedia etc then they must | have legal copies of the software. I personally do not want to work with | people that are using illegal software. That would not effect the person | using the software illegally but us as well, the Fedora project and Red |hat itself. We do not want to get sued./ / | Icons I usually do the hard way pixel by pixel in Gimp. / /| That sounds like a good way to do it. Anyone else have a way that they | make icons? What about that list of applications that need icons now ;) - -- | Jonathan C. Sitte -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE-----/ I'm not a expert in this area, but I'd like to contribute... I don't know what tools are necessary and how to do a icon. I'll need your help. Is there some material , a tutorial, that i can study? Regards, Alexander. -- ************************************************************ + Alexander Martins da Silva 2nd email: alex at iq.ufrj.br + + Rio de Janeiro, Brazil 22,80 s 43,43 w + ************************************************************ From jcsitte at staticnull.org Sat Nov 8 17:48:39 2003 From: jcsitte at staticnull.org (Jonathan C. Sitte) Date: Sat, 08 Nov 2003 12:48:39 -0500 Subject: [Fedora-desktop-list] Let's get started. In-Reply-To: <3FAD26C4.9080901@virtual1.net> References: <3FAD0EA5.8050802@staticnull.org> <1068308131.6375.24.camel@localhost.localdomain> <3FAD1937.70808@staticnull.org> <3FAD26C4.9080901@virtual1.net> Message-ID: <3FAD2C77.50403@staticnull.org> -----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- Hash: SHA1 Kreg Steppe wrote: | I think that Garrett has a lot of insight on this (I have a super power, | the ability to point out the obvious) I know that he creates icon sheets | (one big image with a grid), and makes use of some xml files and a | program called icon-slicer. What slicer will do is take that sheet and | split it into individual files. makes it a lot easier for management. Looks like a nice app. I noticed its already installed on my everything install ;) /usr/bin/icon-slicer I will look into it. | You can check out the fedora-artwork, or is it still called | redhat-artwork, out of CVS and see all of this. When he gets around. I would love to know the actual URL for that CVS. | As which programs he uses I thought that he was making use of Adobe | Illustrator. I have been trying out sodipodi, and the new GIMP. :) - -- Jonathan C. Sitte -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: GnuPG v1.2.2 (GNU/Linux) Comment: Using GnuPG with Mozilla - http://enigmail.mozdev.org iD8DBQE/rSx3A60L5My8BKQRAixCAJ0dIwrH+UcNYYTbWc1BLfpWycqbjgCeJ7ks xGt1UrufTULp2Nz9bHpyW+E= =aiIq -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- From jcsitte at staticnull.org Sat Nov 8 17:51:49 2003 From: jcsitte at staticnull.org (Jonathan C. Sitte) Date: Sat, 08 Nov 2003 12:51:49 -0500 Subject: [Fedora-desktop-list] Hi In-Reply-To: <3FAD2C81.5050606@uol.com.br> References: <3FAD2C81.5050606@uol.com.br> Message-ID: <3FAD2D35.9010100@staticnull.org> -----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- Hash: SHA1 Alexander Martins wrote: | I'm not a expert in this area, but I'd like to contribute... I don't | know what tools are necessary and how to do a icon. I'll need your | help. Is there some material , a tutorial, that i can study? I think we will be able to get into all that soon. A nice set of documetation just like the rpms are setup with rules and such would be great :). - -- Jonathan C. Sitte -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: GnuPG v1.2.2 (GNU/Linux) Comment: Using GnuPG with Mozilla - http://enigmail.mozdev.org iD8DBQE/rS01A60L5My8BKQRArAkAKCEPMm2jZGHYynpcYuClHQtEOcIrQCgr8S9 WUFoY2M+N/dfcpmWJGOVEXA= =EKu8 -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- From alex.msilva at uol.com.br Sat Nov 8 18:01:55 2003 From: alex.msilva at uol.com.br (Alexander Martins) Date: Sat, 08 Nov 2003 16:01:55 -0200 Subject: [Fedora-desktop-list] Hi In-Reply-To: <3FAD2D35.9010100@staticnull.org> References: <3FAD2C81.5050606@uol.com.br> <3FAD2D35.9010100@staticnull.org> Message-ID: <3FAD2F93.5070500@uol.com.br> Jonathan C. Sitte wrote: > -----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- > Hash: SHA1 > > Alexander Martins wrote: > | I'm not a expert in this area, but I'd like to contribute... I don't > | know what tools are necessary and how to do a icon. I'll need your > | help. Is there some material , a tutorial, that i can study? > > I think we will be able to get into all that soon. A nice set of > documetation just like the rpms are setup with rules and such would be > great :). I agree with you. I think it's necessary to submit a new message to the fedora-devel-list introducing, again, this new list. What do you think about this? Alexander. > - -- > Jonathan C. Sitte > -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- > Version: GnuPG v1.2.2 (GNU/Linux) > Comment: Using GnuPG with Mozilla - http://enigmail.mozdev.org > > iD8DBQE/rS01A60L5My8BKQRArAkAKCEPMm2jZGHYynpcYuClHQtEOcIrQCgr8S9 > WUFoY2M+N/dfcpmWJGOVEXA= > =EKu8 > -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- > > > -- > Fedora-desktop-list mailing list > Fedora-desktop-list at redhat.com > http://www.redhat.com/mailman/listinfo/fedora-desktop-list > -- ************************************************************ + Alexander Martins da Silva 2nd email: alex at iq.ufrj.br + + Rio de Janeiro, Brazil 22,80 s 43,43 w + ************************************************************ From jcsitte at staticnull.org Sat Nov 8 18:03:06 2003 From: jcsitte at staticnull.org (Jonathan C. Sitte) Date: Sat, 08 Nov 2003 13:03:06 -0500 Subject: [Fedora-desktop-list] Hi In-Reply-To: <3FAD2F93.5070500@uol.com.br> References: <3FAD2C81.5050606@uol.com.br> <3FAD2D35.9010100@staticnull.org> <3FAD2F93.5070500@uol.com.br> Message-ID: <3FAD2FDA.8000707@staticnull.org> -----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- Hash: SHA1 Alexander Martins wrote: | I agree with you. | | I think it's necessary to submit a new message to the | fedora-devel-list introducing, again, this new list. What do you think | about this? If you feel that it is necessary. You could ask package maintainers and developers to join for artistic requests. Also so we can tell them that icons such as the Mozilla Mail one is ugly ;) - -- Jonathan C. Sitte -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: GnuPG v1.2.2 (GNU/Linux) Comment: Using GnuPG with Mozilla - http://enigmail.mozdev.org iD8DBQE/rS/aA60L5My8BKQRAk2xAKCks4yB/DxSRPTIy8wqixQaEDTQkACfbszd WADK2vP8sh5fKMyER7/nw3U= =OxgS -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- From tony at tgds.net Sat Nov 8 18:04:16 2003 From: tony at tgds.net (tony) Date: Sat, 08 Nov 2003 19:04:16 +0100 Subject: [Fedora-desktop-list] Let's get started. In-Reply-To: <3FAD1937.70808@staticnull.org> References: <3FAD0EA5.8050802@staticnull.org> <1068308131.6375.24.camel@localhost.localdomain> <3FAD1937.70808@staticnull.org> Message-ID: <1068314655.6375.103.camel@localhost.localdomain> Le sam 08/11/2003 ? 17:26, Jonathan C. Sitte a ?crit : > | I have a Freehand license (Dreamweaver MX Studio). And I also have a G3 > | Mac with all the graphics kit on board from a previous life =:-p > > This was something I think we should take very seriously. I am glad that > you have said that you have a license for your proprietary software. We > need to enforce that if people use Adobe, Macromedia etc then they must > have legal copies of the software. I personally do not want to work with > people that are using illegal software. That would not effect the person > using the software illegally but us as well, the Fedora project and Red > hat itself. We do not want to get sued. My setup is: VMware running (yuck, beurk, icky...) windows (I have a whole box of licences for that - strange I only use one copy...). I have the whole hog Dreamweaver MX Studio. I have to have it because it is what my clients use. I would buy Adobe Illustrator for Linux on day one it came out. I know that Adobe are often not very nice but that one piece of software changed my whole life in 1988. I got religion using it with a graphics tablet... If ever Crossover get Dreamweaver MX/Fireworks MX running + Adobe Illustrator I will dump VMware because Crossover Office is so much faster - no graphics overhead probably? Gimp has been preferred over Photoshop for several years now. I even bought a CD version to support the effort + a book or two. Fireworks has very superior image compression - it beats every other product I have tried. The slicing tool is a great time saver too. I have an ADB Wacom tablet on the Mac (don't ask...) for quick sketching and an old HP SCSI scanner. All this will be replaced by USB on Linux ASAP Tony -- WWW.tgds.net | Logiciels de gestion de centre d'art | H?bergement de bases de donn?es en ligne | hush - ordinateurs silencieux pour biblioth?ques, documentations et bureaux From jcsitte at staticnull.org Sat Nov 8 18:14:07 2003 From: jcsitte at staticnull.org (Jonathan C. Sitte) Date: Sat, 08 Nov 2003 13:14:07 -0500 Subject: [Fedora-desktop-list] Let's get started. In-Reply-To: <1068314655.6375.103.camel@localhost.localdomain> References: <3FAD0EA5.8050802@staticnull.org> <1068308131.6375.24.camel@localhost.localdomain> <3FAD1937.70808@staticnull.org> <1068314655.6375.103.camel@localhost.localdomain> Message-ID: <3FAD326F.6060000@staticnull.org> -----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- Hash: SHA1 tony wrote: | My setup is: VMware running (yuck, beurk, icky...) windows (I have a | whole box of licences for that - strange I only use one copy...). Legitmate is the only answer ;). We must use what we must. I know what you are talking about though. I will be happy when either some genius makes vector graphics a reality on Linux as OSS software or proprietory Adobe either opens their source or makes a Linux Version. On the meantime it is up to us to stuggle. I force myself to use OSS only because I am not in the situation where I can afford Adobe or Macromedia software. | I have the whole hog Dreamweaver MX Studio. I have to have it because it | is what my clients use. Heh. Someone needs to make an offer Macromedia can't refuse to port it to Linux. Then you can get rid of this VMWARE stuff. Oh and that Wintendo thing... | I would buy Adobe Illustrator for Linux on day one it came out. I know | that Adobe are often not very nice but that one piece of software | changed my whole life in 1988. I got religion using it with a graphics | tablet... If ever Crossover get Dreamweaver MX/Fireworks MX running + | Adobe Illustrator I will dump VMware because Crossover Office is so much | faster - no graphics overhead probably? I feel your pain. Please list all the features that it has that Sodipodi etc needs to get you to stop using it. Details please ;) Everything... | Gimp has been preferred over Photoshop for several years now. I even | bought a CD version to support the effort + a book or two. Fireworks has | very superior image compression - it beats every other product I have | tried. The slicing tool is a great time saver too. Agreed. Gimp is much better. Especially when you get used to the right click menu. | I have an ADB Wacom tablet on the Mac (don't ask...) for quick sketching | and an old HP SCSI scanner. I have one of those Wacom things... I hate it. After I got my laptop the touch pad is much more intuitive... | All this will be replaced by USB on Linux ASAP Super! - -- Jonathan C. Sitte -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: GnuPG v1.2.2 (GNU/Linux) Comment: Using GnuPG with Mozilla - http://enigmail.mozdev.org iD8DBQE/rTJvA60L5My8BKQRAsTTAJ48o1mJ6yX/u6rgcP1K7WwA710zUQCgl8Oq pHZ519L25mIv1gp/Gp2ck7I= =TbvJ -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- From kreg at virtual1.net Sat Nov 8 18:53:20 2003 From: kreg at virtual1.net (Kreg Steppe) Date: Sat, 08 Nov 2003 13:53:20 -0500 Subject: [Fedora-desktop-list] Let's get started. In-Reply-To: <3FAD2C77.50403@staticnull.org> References: <3FAD0EA5.8050802@staticnull.org> <1068308131.6375.24.camel@localhost.localdomain> <3FAD1937.70808@staticnull.org> <3FAD26C4.9080901@virtual1.net> <3FAD2C77.50403@staticnull.org> Message-ID: <3FAD3BA0.40702@virtual1.net> Here you go john: http://fedora.redhat.com/projects/artwork/ There are instructions on this page on how to download from CVS. Kreg Jonathan C. Sitte wrote: > -----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- > Hash: SHA1 > > Kreg Steppe wrote: > | I think that Garrett has a lot of insight on this (I have a super > power, > | the ability to point out the obvious) I know that he creates icon > sheets > | (one big image with a grid), and makes use of some xml files and a > | program called icon-slicer. What slicer will do is take that sheet and > | split it into individual files. makes it a lot easier for management. > > Looks like a nice app. I noticed its already installed on my everything > install ;) /usr/bin/icon-slicer I will look into it. > > | You can check out the fedora-artwork, or is it still called > | redhat-artwork, out of CVS and see all of this. > > When he gets around. I would love to know the actual URL for that CVS. > > | As which programs he uses I thought that he was making use of Adobe > | Illustrator. I have been trying out sodipodi, and the new GIMP. > > :) > - -- > Jonathan C. Sitte > -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- > Version: GnuPG v1.2.2 (GNU/Linux) > Comment: Using GnuPG with Mozilla - http://enigmail.mozdev.org > > iD8DBQE/rSx3A60L5My8BKQRAixCAJ0dIwrH+UcNYYTbWc1BLfpWycqbjgCeJ7ks > xGt1UrufTULp2Nz9bHpyW+E= > =aiIq > -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- > > > -- > Fedora-desktop-list mailing list > Fedora-desktop-list at redhat.com > http://www.redhat.com/mailman/listinfo/fedora-desktop-list From jcsitte at staticnull.org Sat Nov 8 19:08:22 2003 From: jcsitte at staticnull.org (Jonathan C. Sitte) Date: Sat, 08 Nov 2003 14:08:22 -0500 Subject: [Fedora-desktop-list] Let's get started. In-Reply-To: <3FAD3BA0.40702@virtual1.net> References: <3FAD0EA5.8050802@staticnull.org> <1068308131.6375.24.camel@localhost.localdomain> <3FAD1937.70808@staticnull.org> <3FAD26C4.9080901@virtual1.net> <3FAD2C77.50403@staticnull.org> <3FAD3BA0.40702@virtual1.net> Message-ID: <3FAD3F26.3070806@staticnull.org> -----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- Hash: SHA1 Kreg Steppe wrote: | Here you go john: | http://fedora.redhat.com/projects/artwork/ | | There are instructions on this page on how to download from CVS. Thanks :)) - -- Jonathan C. Sitte -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: GnuPG v1.2.2 (GNU/Linux) Comment: Using GnuPG with Mozilla - http://enigmail.mozdev.org iD8DBQE/rT8mA60L5My8BKQRAlScAKCN3ksJCeHFmSwlUWaq1SsSUtut8gCgowv5 mFjWaKcMh0i02EiaZgR4gf8= =QZ/n -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- From stevelist at silverorange.com Wed Nov 12 02:47:46 2003 From: stevelist at silverorange.com (Steven Garrity) Date: Tue, 11 Nov 2003 22:47:46 -0400 Subject: [Fedora-desktop-list] Public repository of working artwork files Message-ID: <3FB19F52.4040003@silverorange.com> I thought I would make use of the new desktop list to re-kindle the request to have a publicly accessible repository for the working files that are used to create the artwork (EPS/photoshop/illustrator/gimp files, etc.). I asked about this last month and Garrett replied positively (see below). Not trying to pester - just a friendly reminder. Thanks, Steven Garrity Steven Garrity wrote: >> It would be nice if the working artwork files (I presume >> there are a bunch of Photoshop/Illustrator or equivalent >> files) could be sitting in a read-only anonymous FTP or >> something like that. >> >> I think this would encourage participation and improvements >> (it certainly would from me). To which Garrett LeSage replied: > Most everything is either in AI (Illustrator) or in XCF > format (GIMP native). > I will start looking into the details after Fedora Core 1 > is released. Thanks for offering to contribute; I could > use the extra help. (: From garrett at redhat.com Wed Nov 12 15:00:09 2003 From: garrett at redhat.com (Garrett LeSage) Date: Wed, 12 Nov 2003 10:00:09 -0500 Subject: [Fedora-desktop-list] Public repository of working artwork files In-Reply-To: <3FB19F52.4040003@silverorange.com> References: <3FB19F52.4040003@silverorange.com> Message-ID: <3FB24AF9.1040207@redhat.com> Steven Garrity wrote: > I thought I would make use of the new desktop list to re-kindle the > request to have a publicly accessible repository for the working files > that are used to create the artwork (EPS/photoshop/illustrator/gimp > files, etc.). > > I asked about this last month and Garrett replied positively (see > below). Not trying to pester - just a friendly reminder. Thanks. I was looking into it and I'll have to get something set up soon. In the future, it might make sense to store the artwork in a CVS repository. For the time being, I think I shall make the Illustrator files available on my "people page". Yesterday, I was thinking of emailing this list saying just as such, but did not get around to it (as I wanted to make the files available first before emailing, and I have a few other things I am working on right now too). Anyway, I'll try to get something happening in the not-to-distant future. Garrett From jcsitte at staticnull.org Wed Nov 12 22:02:43 2003 From: jcsitte at staticnull.org (Jonathan C. Sitte) Date: Wed, 12 Nov 2003 17:02:43 -0500 Subject: [Fedora-desktop-list] Public repository of working artwork files In-Reply-To: <3FB24AF9.1040207@redhat.com> References: <3FB19F52.4040003@silverorange.com> <3FB24AF9.1040207@redhat.com> Message-ID: <3FB2AE03.108@staticnull.org> -----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- Hash: SHA1 Garrett LeSage wrote: | Anyway, I'll try to get something happening in the not-to-distant future. This is good to hear :)) - -- Jonathan C. Sitte -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: GnuPG v1.2.2 (GNU/Linux) Comment: Using GnuPG with Mozilla - http://enigmail.mozdev.org iD8DBQE/sq4CA60L5My8BKQRAjE6AKC4acQ609By1SqqGBZ/mvACGB2LuwCgkAOH JXTfpEVp3vB/EP1Z9gzhBG0= =WyCU -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- From garrett at redhat.com Thu Nov 13 21:04:17 2003 From: garrett at redhat.com (Garrett LeSage) Date: Thu, 13 Nov 2003 16:04:17 -0500 Subject: [Fedora-desktop-list] Illustrator artwork files Message-ID: <3FB3F1D1.2080104@redhat.com> Hey all, I have posted the Illustrator artwork for Fedora: http://people.redhat.com/glesage/artwork/Fedora/ The "fedoracore2" directory is essentially the same as "fedoracore1" for now. It will be changing in the future as development happens (and I sync the directory up). Let me know if you have any questions. The entire directory is around 80 megs. Garrett From kreg at virtual1.net Thu Nov 13 21:09:38 2003 From: kreg at virtual1.net (Kreg Steppe) Date: Thu, 13 Nov 2003 16:09:38 -0500 Subject: [Fedora-desktop-list] Illustrator artwork files In-Reply-To: <3FB3F1D1.2080104@redhat.com> References: <3FB3F1D1.2080104@redhat.com> Message-ID: <3FB3F312.3030307@virtual1.net> Kewl, thanks... I look forward to looking at these. Kreg Garrett LeSage wrote: > Hey all, > > I have posted the Illustrator artwork for Fedora: > http://people.redhat.com/glesage/artwork/Fedora/ > > The "fedoracore2" directory is essentially the same as "fedoracore1" > for now. It will be changing in the future as development happens > (and I sync the directory up). > > Let me know if you have any questions. > The entire directory is around 80 megs. > > Garrett > > > -- > Fedora-desktop-list mailing list > Fedora-desktop-list at redhat.com > http://www.redhat.com/mailman/listinfo/fedora-desktop-list From kreg at virtual1.net Thu Nov 13 21:24:13 2003 From: kreg at virtual1.net (Kreg Steppe) Date: Thu, 13 Nov 2003 16:24:13 -0500 Subject: [Fedora-desktop-list] Contributions Message-ID: <3FB3F67D.9080602@virtual1.net> If I or anyone else for that matter wants to contribute artwork, what guidelines do you have? Are you looking for contributions that are consistant with the current Bluecurve theme? I.E. Icons and such, (Not just backgrounds). I personally think that expanding on the current look and feel would be productive, seeing as far as the current look and feel has come along. I guess what I am getting at is what is needed? I am sort of directing this to Garrett because you have been working on this for so long with RH, you would know what is needed, and what has been done. Also how are things submitted? I really want to participate. Kreg From jcsitte at staticnull.org Fri Nov 14 02:26:50 2003 From: jcsitte at staticnull.org (Jonathan C. Sitte) Date: Thu, 13 Nov 2003 21:26:50 -0500 Subject: [Fedora-desktop-list] Illustrator artwork files In-Reply-To: <3FB3F1D1.2080104@redhat.com> References: <3FB3F1D1.2080104@redhat.com> Message-ID: <3FB43D6A.20204@staticnull.org> -----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- Hash: SHA1 Garrett LeSage wrote: | I have posted the Illustrator artwork for Fedora: | http://people.redhat.com/glesage/artwork/Fedora/ One thing. Is there an application in Linux that can edit this file type? Unfortunantly I am unable to afford Illustrator. I will see what I can come up with. I tried opening the file in Gimp but got one layer. Also the fact that the text looked funny. Example below. I wonder if there is either a work around or another vector based format that we can all use. :/ - -- Jonathan C. Sitte -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: GnuPG v1.2.2 (GNU/Linux) Comment: Using GnuPG with Mozilla - http://enigmail.mozdev.org iD8DBQE/tD1qA60L5My8BKQRAqjbAKCo+ts57hmwlIsorRnj10LqlyPauwCfSYtU j3R4VHW9zh9UzFuFK1jKO8I= =Fh2s -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: fedora-bannerad-1.jpg Type: image/jpeg Size: 28805 bytes Desc: not available URL: From behdad at cs.toronto.edu Fri Nov 14 11:17:09 2003 From: behdad at cs.toronto.edu (Behdad Esfahbod) Date: Fri, 14 Nov 2003 06:17:09 -0500 Subject: [Fedora-desktop-list] Contributions In-Reply-To: <3FB3F67D.9080602@virtual1.net> References: <3FB3F67D.9080602@virtual1.net> Message-ID: Of course Garrett is the master here. But to me, smells like there are enough people around to start converting BlueCurve to SVG... behdad On Thu, 13 Nov 2003, Kreg Steppe wrote: > If I or anyone else for that matter wants to contribute artwork, what > guidelines do you have? Are you looking for contributions that are > consistant with the current Bluecurve theme? I.E. Icons and such, (Not > just backgrounds). > > I personally think that expanding on the current look and feel would be > productive, seeing as far as the current look and feel has come along. I > guess what I am getting at is what is needed? I am sort of directing > this to Garrett because you have been working on this for so long with > RH, you would know what is needed, and what has been done. > > Also how are things submitted? > > I really want to participate. > > Kreg > > > -- > Fedora-desktop-list mailing list > Fedora-desktop-list at redhat.com > http://www.redhat.com/mailman/listinfo/fedora-desktop-list > > From garrett at redhat.com Fri Nov 14 13:08:41 2003 From: garrett at redhat.com (Garrett LeSage) Date: Fri, 14 Nov 2003 08:08:41 -0500 Subject: [Fedora-desktop-list] Illustrator artwork files In-Reply-To: <3FB43D6A.20204@staticnull.org> References: <3FB3F1D1.2080104@redhat.com> <3FB43D6A.20204@staticnull.org> Message-ID: <3FB4D3D9.2040503@redhat.com> Jonathan C. Sitte wrote: > Garrett LeSage wrote: > | I have posted the Illustrator artwork for Fedora: > | http://people.redhat.com/glesage/artwork/Fedora/ > > One thing. Is there an application in Linux that can edit this file > type? Unfortunantly I am unable to afford Illustrator. I will see what I > can come up with. I tried opening the file in Gimp but got one layer. > Also the fact that the text looked funny. Example below. I wonder if > there is either a work around or another vector based format that we can > all use. :/ There _is_ ill2svg... http://cvs.sourceforge.net/viewcvs.py/sodipodi/sodipodi-web/home/files/ill2svg.tgz However, to effectively edit the graphics, you need Illustrator. There isn't anything on Linux which allows you to edit vector art even close to Illustrator (or Freehand). Once you do convert it to SVG from AI, then you should be able to play around with it in Sodipodi or Inkscape (the Sodipodi fork). Sketch may also work. Still, these tools don't really compare to Illustrator, unfortunately. Aside from the icons and splash screens and what-not, one can still help out with the artwork. There are other things which need to be done. Feedback, mockups, ideas, etc. -- I'll provide more info about these things as the time arises. (Feel free to bring up things on this list too.) Garrett From tony at tgds.net Fri Nov 14 13:13:31 2003 From: tony at tgds.net (tony) Date: Fri, 14 Nov 2003 14:13:31 +0100 Subject: [Fedora-desktop-list] Illustrator artwork files In-Reply-To: <3FB4D3D9.2040503@redhat.com> References: <3FB3F1D1.2080104@redhat.com> <3FB43D6A.20204@staticnull.org> <3FB4D3D9.2040503@redhat.com> Message-ID: <1068815611.8815.11.camel@localhost.localdomain> Le ven 14/11/2003 ? 14:08, Garrett LeSage a ?crit : > However, to effectively edit the graphics, you need Illustrator. There > isn't anything on Linux which allows you to edit vector art even close > to Illustrator (or Freehand). All we need now is Crossover Office support for Illustrator - and even then it doesn't run as well in windows as on the Mac =:-p What AI version are you saving as Garret? Cheers Tony Grant -- WWW.tgds.net | Logiciels de gestion de centre d'art | H?bergement de bases de donn?es en ligne | hush - ordinateurs silencieux pour biblioth?ques, documentations et bureaux From kreg at virtual1.net Fri Nov 14 19:28:17 2003 From: kreg at virtual1.net (Kreg Steppe) Date: Fri, 14 Nov 2003 14:28:17 -0500 Subject: [Fedora-desktop-list] Illustrator artwork files In-Reply-To: <3FB4D3D9.2040503@redhat.com> References: <3FB3F1D1.2080104@redhat.com> <3FB43D6A.20204@staticnull.org> <3FB4D3D9.2040503@redhat.com> Message-ID: <3FB52CD1.7010802@virtual1.net> I had trouble with that link to ill2svg.tgz Here it is: http://sodipodi.sourceforge.net/files/ill2svg.tgz Kreg Garrett LeSage wrote: > Jonathan C. Sitte wrote: > >> Garrett LeSage wrote: >> | I have posted the Illustrator artwork for Fedora: >> | http://people.redhat.com/glesage/artwork/Fedora/ >> >> One thing. Is there an application in Linux that can edit this file >> type? Unfortunantly I am unable to afford Illustrator. I will see what I >> can come up with. I tried opening the file in Gimp but got one layer. >> Also the fact that the text looked funny. Example below. I wonder if >> there is either a work around or another vector based format that we can >> all use. :/ > > > > There _is_ ill2svg... > http://cvs.sourceforge.net/viewcvs.py/sodipodi/sodipodi-web/home/files/ill2svg.tgz > > > However, to effectively edit the graphics, you need Illustrator. > There isn't anything on Linux which allows you to edit vector art even > close to Illustrator (or Freehand). > Once you do convert it to SVG from AI, then you should be able to play > around with it in Sodipodi or Inkscape (the Sodipodi fork). Sketch > may also work. Still, these tools don't really compare to > Illustrator, unfortunately. > > Aside from the icons and splash screens and what-not, one can still > help out with the artwork. There are other things which need to be > done. Feedback, mockups, ideas, etc. -- I'll provide more info about > these things as the time arises. (Feel free to bring up things on > this list too.) > > Garrett > > > -- > Fedora-desktop-list mailing list > Fedora-desktop-list at redhat.com > http://www.redhat.com/mailman/listinfo/fedora-desktop-list From stevelist at silverorange.com Fri Nov 14 22:09:13 2003 From: stevelist at silverorange.com (Steven Garrity) Date: Fri, 14 Nov 2003 18:09:13 -0400 Subject: [Fedora-desktop-list] Illustrator artwork files In-Reply-To: <3FB3F1D1.2080104@redhat.com> References: <3FB3F1D1.2080104@redhat.com> Message-ID: <3FB55289.6040204@silverorange.com> Garrett LeSage wrote: > Hey all, > I have posted the Illustrator artwork for Fedora: > http://people.redhat.com/glesage/artwork/Fedora/ Thanks Garrett - there is some really beautiful artwork here. We could use your talents in the Mozilla project. I'm particularly interested in the throbber-mockup.ai file. Are these potential replacements for the current throbber? I like how the current throbber isn't contained in anything - but I did run into some minor oddness when experimenting with an un-contained (ie. not in a box) throbber in a web browser (I have a mockup of a version of it in Firebird if anyone is interested). For those that don't have the means/time to get at the illustrator file, here's a PNG of the file in question: http://actsofvolition.com/images/throbber-mockup.png Steven Garrity From mandreiana at rdslink.ro Sat Nov 15 07:10:12 2003 From: mandreiana at rdslink.ro (Marius Andreiana) Date: Sat, 15 Nov 2003 09:10:12 +0200 Subject: [Fedora-desktop-list] Illustrator artwork files In-Reply-To: <3FB43D6A.20204@staticnull.org> References: <3FB3F1D1.2080104@redhat.com> <3FB43D6A.20204@staticnull.org> Message-ID: <1068824040.5376.9.camel@marte.biciclete.ro> On Vi, 2003-11-14 at 04:26, Jonathan C. Sitte wrote: > One thing. Is there an application in Linux that can edit this file > type? sketech can open and save .ai files -- Marius Andreiana Galuna - Solu?ii Linux ?n Rom?nia http://www.galuna.ro From ra11le at telus.net Sat Nov 15 12:37:48 2003 From: ra11le at telus.net (michael) Date: Sat, 15 Nov 2003 04:37:48 -0800 Subject: [Fedora-desktop-list] ra11le@telus.net Message-ID: <1068899868.7569.0.camel@localhost.localdomain> I want to subscribe my email is ra11le at telus.net From jcsitte at staticnull.org Sun Nov 16 12:05:32 2003 From: jcsitte at staticnull.org (Jonathan C. Sitte) Date: Sun, 16 Nov 2003 07:05:32 -0500 Subject: [Fedora-desktop-list] Inkspace Message-ID: <3FB7680C.7090105@staticnull.org> I created Inkspace rpms if anyone wants them. -- Jonathan C. Sitte Digital Arts & Computer Technology http://www.staticnull.org/jcsitte/ 917.414.2559 M-F 8AM-10PM Public Key: http://www.staticnull.org/jcsitte/0x40E69A47-pubkey.asc From jcsitte at staticnull.org Sun Nov 16 13:51:01 2003 From: jcsitte at staticnull.org (Jonathan C. Sitte) Date: Sun, 16 Nov 2003 08:51:01 -0500 Subject: [Fedora-desktop-list] Mozilla Mail again. Message-ID: <3FB780C5.1010807@staticnull.org> -----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- Hash: SHA1 /usr/share/pixmaps/mozilla-mail-icon.png is icky. /usr/share/icons/Bluecurve/48x48/apps/redhat-web-browser.png is really nice. So is /usr/share/icons/Bluecurve/48x48/apps/mozilla-compose-icon.png. Can we fix this? Cheers, - -- Jonathan C. Sitte Digital Arts & Computer Technology http://www.staticnull.org/jcsitte/ 917.414.2559 M-F 8AM-10PM Public Key: http://www.staticnull.org/jcsitte/0x40E69A47-pubkey.asc -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: GnuPG v1.2.2 (GNU/Linux) Comment: Using GnuPG with Mozilla - http://enigmail.mozdev.org iD4DBQE/t4C6bzreREDmmkcRAnfcAKCMQln8Q7x9TtNqecUSsnN6R+jd7wCYkpO2 Pb8rwqymRtu3J0vagV3eoQ== =zmiT -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: ickymozmail.jpg Type: image/jpeg Size: 6419 bytes Desc: not available URL: From stevelist at silverorange.com Mon Nov 17 04:05:39 2003 From: stevelist at silverorange.com (Steven Garrity) Date: Mon, 17 Nov 2003 00:05:39 -0400 Subject: [Fedora-desktop-list] What is the license on the Fedora artwork? Message-ID: <3FB84913.1010304@silverorange.com> Simple question - apologies if it has already been covered: What, if any, license applies to the Fedora artwork (both the final product in the CVS and the vector originals that Garrett has kindly shared)? I'm asking with a specific using in mind (adapting the bluecurve throbber to a Mozilla Thunderbird theme), but I'm also curious in general. Thanks, Steven Garrity From jcsitte at staticnull.org Mon Nov 17 09:03:58 2003 From: jcsitte at staticnull.org (Jonathan C. Sitte) Date: Mon, 17 Nov 2003 04:03:58 -0500 Subject: [Fedora-desktop-list] Fonts-extras Message-ID: <3FB88EFE.7070905@staticnull.org> -----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- Hash: SHA1 So when are we going to make a fonts-xtras package for Fedora? My goodness it would be nice to get some more fonts on this thing. I can do it by hand but it would be nice if we worked together and specifically chose a collection of extras as one packege. Of course they have to be free. Let me know what you think of this? I was using inkscape and gimp and was thinking why the heck don't we have a fonts-extras yet? Just a though ;). - -- Jonathan C. Sitte Digital Arts & Computer Technology http://www.staticnull.org/jcsitte/ 917.414.2559 M-F 8AM-10PM Public Key: http://www.staticnull.org/jcsitte/0x40E69A47-pubkey.asc -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: GnuPG v1.2.2 (GNU/Linux) Comment: Using GnuPG with Mozilla - http://enigmail.mozdev.org iD8DBQE/uI7+bzreREDmmkcRAiAuAJ954SyEbHRVEK8FQsYxWiVks3btoACfcH+g mtHVLprrmZAbLnEQRNfl3cE= =X44n -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- From hp at redhat.com Tue Nov 18 04:47:54 2003 From: hp at redhat.com (Havoc Pennington) Date: Mon, 17 Nov 2003 23:47:54 -0500 Subject: [Fedora-desktop-list] What is the license on the Fedora artwork? In-Reply-To: <3FB84913.1010304@silverorange.com> References: <3FB84913.1010304@silverorange.com> Message-ID: <1069130874.7840.125.camel@localhost.localdomain> On Sun, 2003-11-16 at 23:05, Steven Garrity wrote: > Simple question - apologies if it has already been covered: What, if > any, license applies to the Fedora artwork (both the final product in > the CVS and the vector originals that Garrett has kindly shared)? > > I'm asking with a specific using in mind (adapting the bluecurve > throbber to a Mozilla Thunderbird theme), but I'm also curious in general. > GPL I think, check the package license field. GPL doesn't 100% make sense for artwork, but it seems simplest. Havoc From jcsitte at staticnull.org Tue Nov 18 05:05:36 2003 From: jcsitte at staticnull.org (Jonathan C. Sitte) Date: Tue, 18 Nov 2003 00:05:36 -0500 Subject: [Fedora-desktop-list] What is the license on the Fedora artwork? In-Reply-To: <1069130874.7840.125.camel@localhost.localdomain> References: <3FB84913.1010304@silverorange.com> <1069130874.7840.125.camel@localhost.localdomain> Message-ID: <3FB9A8A0.8010008@staticnull.org> -----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- Hash: SHA1 Havoc Pennington wrote: | GPL I think, check the package license field. GPL doesn't 100% make | sense for artwork, but it seems simplest. I think that would be a good thing to talk about on this list. Is the GPL good for artwork? ;). - -- Jonathan C. Sitte Digital Arts - Computer Technologies Address: New York, NY 10128 US Cellular: 917.414.2559 Anytime URL: http://www.staticnull.org/jcsitte/ Public Key: http://www.staticnull.org/jcsitte/0x40E69A47-pubkey.asc -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: GnuPG v1.2.2 (GNU/Linux) Comment: Using GnuPG with Mozilla - http://enigmail.mozdev.org iD8DBQE/uaigbzreREDmmkcRApJ3AKDUrakao+4WRSB1TUD1Jd+bqP2Y/wCdEX65 B4cSBc31HbqC0O/F6KOqPO0= =lVvh -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- From hp at redhat.com Tue Nov 18 05:54:29 2003 From: hp at redhat.com (Havoc Pennington) Date: Tue, 18 Nov 2003 00:54:29 -0500 Subject: [Fedora-desktop-list] What is the license on the Fedora artwork? In-Reply-To: <3FB9A8A0.8010008@staticnull.org> References: <3FB84913.1010304@silverorange.com> <1069130874.7840.125.camel@localhost.localdomain> <3FB9A8A0.8010008@staticnull.org> Message-ID: <1069134869.7840.132.camel@localhost.localdomain> On Tue, 2003-11-18 at 00:05, Jonathan C. Sitte wrote: > I think that would be a good thing to talk about on this list. Is the > GPL good for artwork? ;). Well, not really. The GPL pretty clearly talks about software and code in the license. There are other licenses that are more designed for text or artwork. However, sort of standard practice is to ship a bunch of images with programs and not put a separate license on the images. So I guess on some level you can just say the images are part of the software. There's a lot of prior discussion of this, if you google you could probably find a list of licenses people have come up with and discussion of same. Havoc From alexl at redhat.com Tue Nov 18 07:40:37 2003 From: alexl at redhat.com (Alexander Larsson) Date: 18 Nov 2003 08:40:37 +0100 Subject: [Fedora-desktop-list] Fonts-extras In-Reply-To: <3FB88EFE.7070905@staticnull.org> References: <3FB88EFE.7070905@staticnull.org> Message-ID: <1069141237.21662.3.camel@localhost.localdomain> On Mon, 2003-11-17 at 10:03, Jonathan C. Sitte wrote: > -----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- > Hash: SHA1 > > So when are we going to make a fonts-xtras package for Fedora? My > goodness it would be nice to get some more fonts on this thing. I can do > it by hand but it would be nice if we worked together and specifically > chose a collection of extras as one packege. Of course they have to be > free. Let me know what you think of this? I was using inkscape and gimp > and was thinking why the heck don't we have a fonts-extras yet? Just a > though ;). I guess one reason is that most fonts tend to be very poor wrt to hinting and unicode coverage. This means they are pretty bad for typical display purposes, and filling up the font selectors with fonts that aren't really useful might be a bad thing for most users. What sort of fonts where you wanting? Decorative ones or plain ones? =-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-= Alexander Larsson Red Hat, Inc alexl at redhat.com alla at lysator.liu.se He's an all-American crooked rock star with a secret. She's a brilliant blonde bodyguard from a secret island of warrior women. They fight crime! From occy at occy.net Tue Nov 18 19:53:38 2003 From: occy at occy.net (Trae McCombs) Date: Tue, 18 Nov 2003 14:53:38 -0500 Subject: [Fedora-desktop-list] Gnome "start-up" fonts... (after gdm login, before gnome-session proper) Message-ID: <1069185218.19246.13.camel@airwaves> Is it just me? Or has anyone else noticed that when you log in to gnome, after you go through GDM, that the fonts seem to be off and bump into the icons while things like: gnome-panel, etc... load. Sorry if this has been mentioned before. Trae PS. I noticed this while trying Mandrake9.2's gnome as well the other day, so while the issue is probably a gnome bug, the fact is it makes the text presentation not so professional. -- (lead vocals, bass) http://theinterference.com/ From jrb at redhat.com Tue Nov 18 21:08:02 2003 From: jrb at redhat.com (Jonathan Blandford) Date: 18 Nov 2003 16:08:02 -0500 Subject: [Fedora-desktop-list] Gnome "start-up" fonts... (after gdm login, before gnome-session proper) In-Reply-To: <1069185218.19246.13.camel@airwaves> References: <1069185218.19246.13.camel@airwaves> Message-ID: Trae McCombs writes: > Is it just me? Or has anyone else noticed that when you log in to > gnome, after you go through GDM, that the fonts seem to be off and bump > into the icons while things like: gnome-panel, etc... load. > > Sorry if this has been mentioned before. Do you mean on splash-screen? I think that the bubble for the text is in the wrong place, but Garrett can confirm or deny that more. Thanks, -Jonathan From occy at occy.net Tue Nov 18 21:28:57 2003 From: occy at occy.net (Trae McCombs) Date: Tue, 18 Nov 2003 16:28:57 -0500 Subject: [Fedora-desktop-list] Gnome "start-up" fonts... (after gdm login, before gnome-session proper) In-Reply-To: References: <1069185218.19246.13.camel@airwaves> Message-ID: <1069190936.19246.16.camel@airwaves> On Tue, 2003-11-18 at 16:08, Jonathan Blandford wrote: > Do you mean on splash-screen? I think that the bubble for the text is > in the wrong place, but Garrett can confirm or deny that more. Roger Dodger! Houston we have a go. Yes, that's what I'm referring too. I didn't know them thar technical words to be a usin'. Garrett, Confirm or Deny? Trae -- (lead vocals, bass) http://theinterference.com/ From kreg at virtual1.net Tue Nov 18 21:50:51 2003 From: kreg at virtual1.net (Kreg Steppe) Date: Tue, 18 Nov 2003 16:50:51 -0500 Subject: [Fedora-desktop-list] Gnome "start-up" fonts... (after gdm login, before gnome-session proper) In-Reply-To: <1069190936.19246.16.camel@airwaves> References: <1069185218.19246.13.camel@airwaves> <1069190936.19246.16.camel@airwaves> Message-ID: <3FBA943B.8010106@virtual1.net> I agree that the bubble looks like it needs to be moved up a tad or something. Kreg Trae McCombs wrote: >On Tue, 2003-11-18 at 16:08, Jonathan Blandford wrote: > > >>Do you mean on splash-screen? I think that the bubble for the text is >>in the wrong place, but Garrett can confirm or deny that more. >> >> > >Roger Dodger! Houston we have a go. Yes, that's what I'm referring >too. I didn't know them thar technical words to be a usin'. > >Garrett, Confirm or Deny? > >Trae > > > From garrett at redhat.com Tue Nov 18 22:44:16 2003 From: garrett at redhat.com (Garrett LeSage) Date: Tue, 18 Nov 2003 17:44:16 -0500 Subject: [Fedora-desktop-list] Gnome "start-up" fonts... (after gdm login, before gnome-session proper) In-Reply-To: <1069190936.19246.16.camel@airwaves> References: <1069185218.19246.13.camel@airwaves> <1069190936.19246.16.camel@airwaves> Message-ID: <3FBAA0C0.3060607@redhat.com> Trae McCombs wrote: >On Tue, 2003-11-18 at 16:08, Jonathan Blandford wrote: > > >>Do you mean on splash-screen? I think that the bubble for the text is >>in the wrong place, but Garrett can confirm or deny that more. >> >> > >Roger Dodger! Houston we have a go. Yes, that's what I'm referring >too. I didn't know them thar technical words to be a usin'. > >Garrett, Confirm or Deny? > > Yes. In testing, the font was different on my system and this issue wasn't caught until after we did a final freeze. Perhaps I can shift it up a couple of pixels and get it in an upcoming version. Garrett From occy at occy.net Wed Nov 19 02:21:19 2003 From: occy at occy.net (Trae McCombs) Date: Tue, 18 Nov 2003 21:21:19 -0500 Subject: [Fedora-desktop-list] Gnome "start-up" fonts... (after gdm login, before gnome-session proper) In-Reply-To: <3FBAA0C0.3060607@redhat.com> References: <1069185218.19246.13.camel@airwaves> <1069190936.19246.16.camel@airwaves> <3FBAA0C0.3060607@redhat.com> Message-ID: <1069208478.26478.2.camel@airwaves> On Tue, 2003-11-18 at 17:44, Garrett LeSage wrote: > Yes. In testing, the font was different on my system and this issue > wasn't caught until after we did a final freeze. > > Perhaps I can shift it up a couple of pixels and get it in an upcoming > version. > The odd thing is, I could almost have sworn I saw this same behavior in Mandrake 9.2 when I did some distro testing of gnome the other day. Course, that could have been FreeBSD's gnome too... I, sadly, didn't take the notes I should have. Regardless though, it seems odd that I would have experienced this same bug on a different distro or even a different *nix. Whatchathink? -- Trae McCombs From dawson at fnal.gov Wed Nov 19 14:15:51 2003 From: dawson at fnal.gov (Troy Dawson) Date: Wed, 19 Nov 2003 08:15:51 -0600 Subject: [Fedora-desktop-list] changing Gnome panel buttons Message-ID: <3FBB7B17.7050800@fnal.gov> Hello, Alot of my users keep complaining whenever they get a new account on a box that the first thing they do is add the terminal button to their panel. These complaints came from both KDE and Gnome users. I was able to change the default buttons on KDE by changing /usr/share/config/kickerrc But try as I might, I cannot find the file, or set of files, to change the default set of buttons that you get on the gnome-panel. So, in short, what file, or set of files, do you need to modify, to change the default gnome-panel buttons? By default I mean the buttons that a newly created user would see. Thanks Troy Dawson -- __________________________________________________ Troy Dawson dawson at fnal.gov (630)840-6468 Fermilab ComputingDivision/CSS CSI Group __________________________________________________ From hp at redhat.com Wed Nov 19 16:13:38 2003 From: hp at redhat.com (Havoc Pennington) Date: Wed, 19 Nov 2003 11:13:38 -0500 Subject: [Fedora-desktop-list] changing Gnome panel buttons In-Reply-To: <3FBB7B17.7050800@fnal.gov> References: <3FBB7B17.7050800@fnal.gov> Message-ID: <1069258418.17309.1.camel@localhost.localdomain> Hi, This list is for development of the Fedora desktop, questions about using it should go to fedora-list instead. On Wed, 2003-11-19 at 09:15, Troy Dawson wrote: > So, in short, what file, or set of files, do you need to modify, to change the > default gnome-panel buttons? > By default I mean the buttons that a newly created user would see. > You might check out the GNOME sysadmin guide, from memory the URL was http://www.gnome.org/learn/ Havoc From dawson at fnal.gov Wed Nov 19 17:40:14 2003 From: dawson at fnal.gov (Troy Dawson) Date: Wed, 19 Nov 2003 11:40:14 -0600 Subject: [Fedora-desktop-list] changing Gnome panel buttons In-Reply-To: <1069258418.17309.1.camel@localhost.localdomain> References: <3FBB7B17.7050800@fnal.gov> <1069258418.17309.1.camel@localhost.localdomain> Message-ID: <3FBBAAFE.9080900@fnal.gov> Thank you for pointing me towards the right list. This is the third fedora list I've tried, and I guess maybe the fourth will be the right one. Since this is the desktop development list, perhaps you missed my subtleness. 75% of my users want want the terminal server icon on the panels, for both KDE and Gnome. The other 25% don't care. Or is this mailling list only for developing the eye candy such as backdrops and icons? Troy Havoc Pennington wrote: > Hi, > > This list is for development of the Fedora desktop, questions about > using it should go to fedora-list instead. > > On Wed, 2003-11-19 at 09:15, Troy Dawson wrote: > >>So, in short, what file, or set of files, do you need to modify, to change the >>default gnome-panel buttons? >>By default I mean the buttons that a newly created user would see. >> > > > You might check out the GNOME sysadmin guide, from memory the URL was > http://www.gnome.org/learn/ > > Havoc > > > > -- > Fedora-desktop-list mailing list > Fedora-desktop-list at redhat.com > http://www.redhat.com/mailman/listinfo/fedora-desktop-list -- __________________________________________________ Troy Dawson dawson at fnal.gov (630)840-6468 Fermilab ComputingDivision/CSS CSI Group __________________________________________________ From behdad at cs.toronto.edu Wed Nov 19 17:55:14 2003 From: behdad at cs.toronto.edu (Behdad Esfahbod) Date: Wed, 19 Nov 2003 12:55:14 -0500 Subject: [Fedora-desktop-list] changing Gnome panel buttons In-Reply-To: <3FBB7B17.7050800@fnal.gov> References: <3FBB7B17.7050800@fnal.gov> Message-ID: I think we need so more dynamic default setup. For example if the user has selected Development profile during install, guess he needs the terminal icon in panel. I know the reason it's not currently there by default if for home users that perhaps do not know what a terminal is. behdad On Wed, 19 Nov 2003, Troy Dawson wrote: > Hello, > Alot of my users keep complaining whenever they get a new account on a box > that the first thing they do is add the terminal button to their panel. These > complaints came from both KDE and Gnome users. > > I was able to change the default buttons on KDE by changing > /usr/share/config/kickerrc > But try as I might, I cannot find the file, or set of files, to change the > default set of buttons that you get on the gnome-panel. > > So, in short, what file, or set of files, do you need to modify, to change the > default gnome-panel buttons? > By default I mean the buttons that a newly created user would see. > > Thanks > Troy Dawson > > From dawson at fnal.gov Wed Nov 19 18:02:02 2003 From: dawson at fnal.gov (Troy Dawson) Date: Wed, 19 Nov 2003 12:02:02 -0600 Subject: [Fedora-desktop-list] changing Gnome panel buttons In-Reply-To: <1069258418.17309.1.camel@localhost.localdomain> References: <3FBB7B17.7050800@fnal.gov> <1069258418.17309.1.camel@localhost.localdomain> Message-ID: <3FBBB01A.2030102@fnal.gov> Sorry for blowing up at you. I've just been told too many times to go someplace else. Thanks for that link. I could swear I'd searched all over gnomes web site, but I had never found that. Troy Havoc Pennington wrote: > Hi, > > This list is for development of the Fedora desktop, questions about > using it should go to fedora-list instead. > > On Wed, 2003-11-19 at 09:15, Troy Dawson wrote: > >>So, in short, what file, or set of files, do you need to modify, to change the >>default gnome-panel buttons? >>By default I mean the buttons that a newly created user would see. >> > > > You might check out the GNOME sysadmin guide, from memory the URL was > http://www.gnome.org/learn/ > > Havoc > > -- __________________________________________________ Troy Dawson dawson at fnal.gov (630)840-6468 Fermilab ComputingDivision/CSS CSI Group __________________________________________________ From skvidal at phy.duke.edu Wed Nov 19 18:29:02 2003 From: skvidal at phy.duke.edu (seth vidal) Date: 19 Nov 2003 13:29:02 -0500 Subject: [Fedora-desktop-list] changing Gnome panel buttons In-Reply-To: <3FBBB01A.2030102@fnal.gov> References: <3FBB7B17.7050800@fnal.gov> <1069258418.17309.1.camel@localhost.localdomain> <3FBBB01A.2030102@fnal.gov> Message-ID: <1069266542.6956.11.camel@opus> On Wed, 2003-11-19 at 13:02, Troy Dawson wrote: > Sorry for blowing up at you. I've just been told too many times to go > someplace else. > Thanks for that link. I could swear I'd searched all over gnomes web site, > but I had never found that. You never found it b/c iirc, it's not linked from anywhere on the gnome website. At all. :) -sv From skvidal at phy.duke.edu Wed Nov 19 18:44:41 2003 From: skvidal at phy.duke.edu (seth vidal) Date: 19 Nov 2003 13:44:41 -0500 Subject: [Fedora-desktop-list] changing Gnome panel buttons In-Reply-To: <1069266542.6956.11.camel@opus> References: <3FBB7B17.7050800@fnal.gov> <1069258418.17309.1.camel@localhost.localdomain> <3FBBB01A.2030102@fnal.gov> <1069266542.6956.11.camel@opus> Message-ID: <1069267481.6956.13.camel@opus> On Wed, 2003-11-19 at 13:29, seth vidal wrote: > On Wed, 2003-11-19 at 13:02, Troy Dawson wrote: > > Sorry for blowing up at you. I've just been told too many times to go > > someplace else. > > Thanks for that link. I could swear I'd searched all over gnomes web site, > > but I had never found that. > > You never found it b/c iirc, it's not linked from anywhere on the gnome > website. At all. > > :) yes it is not linked from anywhere: http://bugzilla.gnome.org/show_bug.cgi?id=120073 -sv From kreg at virtual1.net Wed Nov 19 18:26:34 2003 From: kreg at virtual1.net (Kreg Steppe) Date: Wed, 19 Nov 2003 13:26:34 -0500 Subject: [Fedora-desktop-list] changing Gnome panel buttons In-Reply-To: References: <3FBB7B17.7050800@fnal.gov> Message-ID: <3FBBB5DA.6020900@virtual1.net> I think that since Fedora isn't geared towards Home users any longer, but towards enthusiasts, and the like, I think that maybe there could be a little re-engineering of the defaults. I for one, the first thing that I do, is pull that icon right to my panel. Kreg Behdad Esfahbod wrote: >I think we need so more dynamic default setup. For example if >the user has selected Development profile during install, guess >he needs the terminal icon in panel. I know the reason it's not >currently there by default if for home users that perhaps do not >know what a terminal is. > >behdad > >On Wed, 19 Nov 2003, Troy Dawson wrote: > > > >>Hello, >>Alot of my users keep complaining whenever they get a new account on a box >>that the first thing they do is add the terminal button to their panel. These >>complaints came from both KDE and Gnome users. >> >>I was able to change the default buttons on KDE by changing >>/usr/share/config/kickerrc >>But try as I might, I cannot find the file, or set of files, to change the >>default set of buttons that you get on the gnome-panel. >> >>So, in short, what file, or set of files, do you need to modify, to change the >>default gnome-panel buttons? >>By default I mean the buttons that a newly created user would see. >> >>Thanks >>Troy Dawson >> >> >> >> > > >-- >Fedora-desktop-list mailing list >Fedora-desktop-list at redhat.com >http://www.redhat.com/mailman/listinfo/fedora-desktop-list > > From occy at occy.net Wed Nov 19 18:47:53 2003 From: occy at occy.net (Trae McCombs) Date: Wed, 19 Nov 2003 13:47:53 -0500 Subject: [Fedora-desktop-list] changing Gnome panel buttons In-Reply-To: <3FBBAAFE.9080900@fnal.gov> References: <3FBB7B17.7050800@fnal.gov> <1069258418.17309.1.camel@localhost.localdomain> <3FBBAAFE.9080900@fnal.gov> Message-ID: <1069267672.26478.51.camel@airwaves> Actually, I think this brings up a good point, which is, why isn't there a terminal icon present by default in Fedora? If, as some people have stated before on the #fedora channel, that Fedora isn't supposed to be for Grandma, then why not include a link to a term on the default desktop? Trae PS. I am the one to be blamed for sending him to this list. PPS. No offense meant to any of the tech savvy Grandma's on this mailing list. :) On Wed, 2003-11-19 at 12:40, Troy Dawson wrote: > Thank you for pointing me towards the right list. This is the third fedora > list I've tried, and I guess maybe the fourth will be the right one. > > Since this is the desktop development list, perhaps you missed my subtleness. > > 75% of my users want want the terminal server icon on the panels, for both KDE > and Gnome. The other 25% don't care. > > Or is this mailling list only for developing the eye candy such as backdrops > and icons? > > Troy > > Havoc Pennington wrote: > > Hi, > > > > This list is for development of the Fedora desktop, questions about > > using it should go to fedora-list instead. > > > > On Wed, 2003-11-19 at 09:15, Troy Dawson wrote: > > > >>So, in short, what file, or set of files, do you need to modify, to change the > >>default gnome-panel buttons? > >>By default I mean the buttons that a newly created user would see. > >> > > > > > > You might check out the GNOME sysadmin guide, from memory the URL was > > http://www.gnome.org/learn/ > > > > Havoc > > > > > > > > -- > > Fedora-desktop-list mailing list > > Fedora-desktop-list at redhat.com > > http://www.redhat.com/mailman/listinfo/fedora-desktop-list From hp at redhat.com Wed Nov 19 21:24:25 2003 From: hp at redhat.com (Havoc Pennington) Date: Wed, 19 Nov 2003 16:24:25 -0500 Subject: [Fedora-desktop-list] changing Gnome panel buttons In-Reply-To: <3FBBB5DA.6020900@virtual1.net> References: <3FBB7B17.7050800@fnal.gov> <3FBBB5DA.6020900@virtual1.net> Message-ID: <1069277065.17309.34.camel@localhost.localdomain> On Wed, 2003-11-19 at 13:26, Kreg Steppe wrote: > I think that since Fedora isn't geared towards Home users any longer, > but towards enthusiasts, and the like, I think that maybe there could be > a little re-engineering of the defaults. I for one, the first thing that > I do, is pull that icon right to my panel. > I'm not sure the idea of Fedora is only command line or old-school unix people though; rather early adopters, people willing to try new things. I feel like as developers of the desktop part of the OS, we should maybe try to dogfood and avoid the command line as much as possible. Though I'm not the best at this myself. My feeling on terminal on the panel has always been that it takes approximately 2 seconds to add the icon, so I haven't ever understood why people feel it's so important to have there by default. Havoc From hp at redhat.com Wed Nov 19 21:27:16 2003 From: hp at redhat.com (Havoc Pennington) Date: Wed, 19 Nov 2003 16:27:16 -0500 Subject: [Fedora-desktop-list] changing Gnome panel buttons In-Reply-To: <3FBBAAFE.9080900@fnal.gov> References: <3FBB7B17.7050800@fnal.gov> <1069258418.17309.1.camel@localhost.localdomain> <3FBBAAFE.9080900@fnal.gov> Message-ID: <1069277236.17309.38.camel@localhost.localdomain> On Wed, 2003-11-19 at 12:40, Troy Dawson wrote: > Thank you for pointing me towards the right list. This is the third fedora > list I've tried, and I guess maybe the fourth will be the right one. > Apologies, Brent just fixed up the list description on the list server. It certainly wasn't clear. > 75% of my users want want the terminal server icon on the panels, for both KDE > and Gnome. The other 25% don't care. We're looking at the broader Windows-replacement desktop though, not just historical unix users. Certainly it's possible to customize the defaults for each site, and it would make sense in your case. I believe Red Hat IT dept has a kickstart setup or package tweaks to configure the default panel for RHEL3 for Red Hat internal users. Havoc From jaap at haitsma.org Wed Nov 19 22:21:41 2003 From: jaap at haitsma.org (Jaap A. Haitsma) Date: Wed, 19 Nov 2003 23:21:41 +0100 Subject: [Fedora-desktop-list] Suggestion for panel and applications menu Message-ID: <1069280500.2301.14.camel@PC67148135> Hi, I have some comments/suggestions about the current gnome desktop in Fedora. (Feel free to burn the comments/suggestions in flames ;-) ) * I find the standard gnome panel at the bottom of the screen very clunky, because it fills up a large part of the screen. (I know I can auto hide it or make it smaller.) I find smaller panel (or 2 panels) like they use in ximian desktop See: http://www.ximian.com/images/screenshots/desktop/browsing-windows-network.png looking much more modern * I find the menus Preferences, System Settings and System tools quite confusing. They contain many similar menu items and if you would make a quiz show in which of the three a certain setting should be set, I think the average user would not do that well. I'd like to suggest to have one "Configuration" (or whatever what you want to call it) menu, where you have two sections: user preferences (which sets options for the current user that is logged in) and system preferences (for setting system wide settings for which you need to be or become root) Jaap From linux at bytebot.net Thu Nov 20 03:20:46 2003 From: linux at bytebot.net (Colin Charles) Date: Thu, 20 Nov 2003 14:20:46 +1100 Subject: [Fedora-desktop-list] changing Gnome panel buttons In-Reply-To: <1069277065.17309.34.camel@localhost.localdomain> References: <3FBB7B17.7050800@fnal.gov> <3FBBB5DA.6020900@virtual1.net> <1069277065.17309.34.camel@localhost.localdomain> Message-ID: <1069298445.5716.17.camel@hermione> On Thu, 2003-11-20 at 08:24, Havoc Pennington wrote: > My feeling on terminal on the panel has always been that it takes > approximately 2 seconds to add the icon, so I haven't ever understood > why people feel it's so important to have there by default. That's because of first impressions. You already have a whole lot of other apps there, why not the usual terminal? Some folks take a while to learn that right-clicking will only then bring up a new terminal (easily). If we have Mozilla there, and we do OpenOffice.org, maybe we ought to just have a terminal there as well. And if its meant to take up less screen real-estate, reduce the panel-size by default (its 48x48 iirc which is way too large, imho). -- Colin Charles, byte at aeon.com.my http://www.bytebot.net/ From dawson at fnal.gov Thu Nov 20 17:25:07 2003 From: dawson at fnal.gov (Troy Dawson) Date: Thu, 20 Nov 2003 11:25:07 -0600 Subject: [Fedora-desktop-list] changing Gnome panel buttons In-Reply-To: <1069267481.6956.13.camel@opus> References: <3FBB7B17.7050800@fnal.gov> <1069258418.17309.1.camel@localhost.localdomain> <3FBBB01A.2030102@fnal.gov> <1069266542.6956.11.camel@opus> <1069267481.6956.13.camel@opus> Message-ID: <3FBCF8F3.3000307@fnal.gov> seth vidal wrote: > On Wed, 2003-11-19 at 13:29, seth vidal wrote: > >>On Wed, 2003-11-19 at 13:02, Troy Dawson wrote: >> >>>Sorry for blowing up at you. I've just been told too many times to go >>>someplace else. >>>Thanks for that link. I could swear I'd searched all over gnomes web site, >>>but I had never found that. >> >>You never found it b/c iirc, it's not linked from anywhere on the gnome >>website. At all. >> >>:) > > > yes it is not linked from anywhere: > http://bugzilla.gnome.org/show_bug.cgi?id=120073 > > > -sv > Thanks, That really is a very useful area. Hopefully they fix it so that there aren't more people like me, getting frustrated because they can't find the documentation. Troy -- __________________________________________________ Troy Dawson dawson at fnal.gov (630)840-6468 Fermilab ComputingDivision/CSS CSI Group __________________________________________________ From kreg at virtual1.net Thu Nov 20 17:41:08 2003 From: kreg at virtual1.net (Kreg Steppe) Date: Thu, 20 Nov 2003 12:41:08 -0500 Subject: [Fedora-desktop-list] changing Gnome panel buttons In-Reply-To: <3FBCF8F3.3000307@fnal.gov> References: <3FBB7B17.7050800@fnal.gov> <1069258418.17309.1.camel@localhost.localdomain> <3FBBB01A.2030102@fnal.gov> <1069266542.6956.11.camel@opus> <1069267481.6956.13.camel@opus> <3FBCF8F3.3000307@fnal.gov> Message-ID: <3FBCFCB4.8000405@virtual1.net> It is linked from Here: http://www.gnome.org/start/2.4/ (I Meant to send this yesterday, but I was having an email-fiasco) Kreg Troy Dawson wrote: > seth vidal wrote: > >> On Wed, 2003-11-19 at 13:29, seth vidal wrote: >> >>> On Wed, 2003-11-19 at 13:02, Troy Dawson wrote: >>> >>>> Sorry for blowing up at you. I've just been told too many times to >>>> go someplace else. >>>> Thanks for that link. I could swear I'd searched all over gnomes >>>> web site, but I had never found that. >>> >>> >>> You never found it b/c iirc, it's not linked from anywhere on the gnome >>> website. At all. >>> >>> :) >> >> >> >> yes it is not linked from anywhere: >> http://bugzilla.gnome.org/show_bug.cgi?id=120073 >> >> >> -sv >> > Thanks, > That really is a very useful area. Hopefully they fix it so that > there aren't more people like me, getting frustrated because they > can't find the documentation. > Troy From skvidal at phy.duke.edu Thu Nov 20 17:52:56 2003 From: skvidal at phy.duke.edu (seth vidal) Date: 20 Nov 2003 12:52:56 -0500 Subject: [Fedora-desktop-list] changing Gnome panel buttons In-Reply-To: <3FBCFCB4.8000405@virtual1.net> References: <3FBB7B17.7050800@fnal.gov> <1069258418.17309.1.camel@localhost.localdomain> <3FBBB01A.2030102@fnal.gov> <1069266542.6956.11.camel@opus> <1069267481.6956.13.camel@opus> <3FBCF8F3.3000307@fnal.gov> <3FBCFCB4.8000405@virtual1.net> Message-ID: <1069350776.12266.121.camel@opus> On Thu, 2003-11-20 at 12:41, Kreg Steppe wrote: > It is linked from Here: > http://www.gnome.org/start/2.4/ > > (I Meant to send this yesterday, but I was having an email-fiasco) > Kreg > curiously enough - if you're trying to go from the front page to that information you have to follow the link 'DOWNLOAD' that seems a touch counter-intuitive, doesn't it? -sv From alexl at redhat.com Thu Nov 20 09:58:28 2003 From: alexl at redhat.com (Alexander Larsson) Date: 20 Nov 2003 10:58:28 +0100 Subject: [Fedora-desktop-list] Suggestion for panel and applications menu In-Reply-To: <1069280500.2301.14.camel@PC67148135> References: <1069280500.2301.14.camel@PC67148135> Message-ID: <1069322308.21662.91.camel@localhost.localdomain> On Wed, 2003-11-19 at 23:21, Jaap A. Haitsma wrote: > Hi, > > I have some comments/suggestions about the current gnome desktop in > Fedora. (Feel free to burn the comments/suggestions in flames ;-) ) > > * I find the standard gnome panel at the bottom of the screen very > clunky, because it fills up a large part of the screen. (I know I can > auto hide it or make it smaller.) I find smaller panel (or 2 panels) > like they use in ximian desktop See: > http://www.ximian.com/images/screenshots/desktop/browsing-windows-network.png > looking much more modern The two panels use exactly the same total amount of screen space, but I agree that buttons on a larger panel use more space. However, its also harder to hit the smaller buttons for people with less control and/or eyesight, for instance older people. > * I find the menus Preferences, System Settings and System tools quite > confusing. They contain many similar menu items and if you would make a > quiz show in which of the three a certain setting should be set, I think > the average user would not do that well. > I'd like to suggest to have one "Configuration" (or whatever what you > want to call it) menu, where you have two sections: user preferences > (which sets options for the current user that is logged in) and system > preferences (for setting system wide settings for which you need to be > or become root) Does this help much though? There are still two menus that you have to look in, and if you didn't know how to find something in the current system, how would you know in the new? All it does is add depth to the menu, making it harder to navigate. I guess for experienced linux users you'd *know* which settings need root and which do not (because you know what underlying operations the config tools do), but e.g. the difference between the XRandR gnome tool that lets you change resolution without root and redhat-config-xfree which needs root access is not at all obvious to unexperienced users. Also, I don't see how system tools fits into the config category. At the core there are three types of configuration tools: 1) Changes that affect only the current user 2) Changes that configure the current machine (X config, network, soundcard, etc) 3) Configuration of system services that aren't user things, nor really machine specific (apache server config, dns server config, database config, etc) And even in category 1 there are two types of configurations, those that are real "preferences", i.e. what the user prefers in the user interface, but that don't affect the app working or not (colors, theme, ui organization, etc) and "settings", things that must be set correctly to make the software work (imap server address, http proxy address, etc). The user/root split is mostly a 1 vs 2+3 split, although not perfect, but mixing services such as apache with network settings probably don't make things easier to find/understand. Getting a good organization for this is extremely hard. Much of the problem is due to the fact that there just are so many settings, and unfortunately many of them are pretty useless for the user. I mean, much of the stuff of type 2 should *just work*, and need little or no configuration. Getting as much of this working *without* config tools is the long term goal. However, at the moment we just have to do our best to try to organize the tools we have in the menus. Its important to notice that having fewer config tools is important even for experienced users, these users have no problem understanding what the config tools do, but they still have problems finding the right tool if there are too many different tools. Getting rid of unnecessary settings increses efficiency for everyone. =-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-= Alexander Larsson Red Hat, Inc alexl at redhat.com alla at lysator.liu.se He's a gun-slinging albino hairdresser on the edge. She's a hard-bitten junkie bounty hunter in the wrong place at the wrong time. They fight crime! From alexl at redhat.com Thu Nov 20 10:19:19 2003 From: alexl at redhat.com (Alexander Larsson) Date: 20 Nov 2003 11:19:19 +0100 Subject: [Fedora-desktop-list] changing Gnome panel buttons In-Reply-To: <3FBBB5DA.6020900@virtual1.net> References: <3FBB7B17.7050800@fnal.gov> <3FBBB5DA.6020900@virtual1.net> Message-ID: <1069323559.21662.113.camel@localhost.localdomain> On Wed, 2003-11-19 at 19:26, Kreg Steppe wrote: > I think that since Fedora isn't geared towards Home users any longer, > but towards enthusiasts, and the like, I think that maybe there could be > a little re-engineering of the defaults. I for one, the first thing that > I do, is pull that icon right to my panel. This is a misconception. Just because we're not currently good enough to be able to be used by anyone doesn't mean we've decided to not pursue that goal. The goal of the Fedora desktop is to (eventually) be good enough and usable enough that anyone should be able to use a default install and be productive. This is important to us, since this is what would make Linux a viable alternative to Windows and MacOS X, and this is the end goal for Fedora. Just because computer enthusiasts are who currently most use Fedora we shouldn't ignore this. The fact is that enthusiasts (like everyone on this mailing list) can easily configure their desktop the way they want, and they all do (differently, and very often so that it looks and works similar to some older setup we've gotten used to). However, "normal" users (and I know this is a bad term) typically won't ever change anything from the default, and its therefore important that we design the defaults with them foremost in mind. The terminal is an important part of Unix, and believe me, I spend most of my time in a terminal. However, the idea of the desktop and a gui is that you're supposed to be able to use the computer and be productive without having to learn and remember a lot of commands. A terminal isn't very good for this (even if its very efficient for other things), so pushing one on the user that doesn't need it is bad. This doesn't mean we should *hide* the terminal, we just shouldn't expose it extra prominently in the UI. If you're a user that needs to start a terminal often, then by default you're a user that is able to add a terminal icon to the panel in less than 5 seconds, and chances are that you're already not using the default setup anyway. =-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-= Alexander Larsson Red Hat, Inc alexl at redhat.com alla at lysator.liu.se He's an obese zombie barbarian gone bad. She's a beautiful wisecracking traffic cop trying to make a difference in a man's world. They fight crime! From kreg at virtual1.net Thu Nov 20 18:34:58 2003 From: kreg at virtual1.net (Kreg Steppe) Date: Thu, 20 Nov 2003 13:34:58 -0500 Subject: [Fedora-desktop-list] changing Gnome panel buttons In-Reply-To: <1069350776.12266.121.camel@opus> References: <3FBB7B17.7050800@fnal.gov> <1069258418.17309.1.camel@localhost.localdomain> <3FBBB01A.2030102@fnal.gov> <1069266542.6956.11.camel@opus> <1069267481.6956.13.camel@opus> <3FBCF8F3.3000307@fnal.gov> <3FBCFCB4.8000405@virtual1.net> <1069350776.12266.121.camel@opus> Message-ID: <3FBD0952.7070809@virtual1.net> Actually I didn't. I followed the link that says: GNOME 2.4 Desktop & Developer Platform over on the right from www.gnome.org But you are right... I think that they could have made it a little more intuitive. Kreg seth vidal wrote: > On Thu, 2003-11-20 at 12:41, Kreg Steppe wrote: > >>It is linked from Here: >>http://www.gnome.org/start/2.4/ >> >>(I Meant to send this yesterday, but I was having an email-fiasco) >>Kreg >> > > > curiously enough - if you're trying to go from the front page to that > information you have to follow the link 'DOWNLOAD' > > > that seems a touch counter-intuitive, doesn't it? > > -sv > > > > -- > Fedora-desktop-list mailing list > Fedora-desktop-list at redhat.com > http://www.redhat.com/mailman/listinfo/fedora-desktop-list From kreg at virtual1.net Thu Nov 20 18:47:15 2003 From: kreg at virtual1.net (Kreg Steppe) Date: Thu, 20 Nov 2003 13:47:15 -0500 Subject: [Fedora-desktop-list] changing Gnome panel buttons In-Reply-To: <1069323559.21662.113.camel@localhost.localdomain> References: <3FBB7B17.7050800@fnal.gov> <3FBBB5DA.6020900@virtual1.net> <1069323559.21662.113.camel@localhost.localdomain> Message-ID: <3FBD0C33.8090105@virtual1.net> After reading your, and Havoc's points I do agree with you. I dont believe that I was looking at the bigger picture. You guys are right that it doesn't take 2 secs to put it on the panel...and UI choices should reflect upon the goal of a more Desktop User experience. I enjoy a good debate, but I will say that you are right. Kreg Alexander Larsson wrote: > On Wed, 2003-11-19 at 19:26, Kreg Steppe wrote: > >>I think that since Fedora isn't geared towards Home users any longer, >>but towards enthusiasts, and the like, I think that maybe there could be >>a little re-engineering of the defaults. I for one, the first thing that >>I do, is pull that icon right to my panel. > > > This is a misconception. Just because we're not currently good enough to > be able to be used by anyone doesn't mean we've decided to not pursue > that goal. The goal of the Fedora desktop is to (eventually) be good > enough and usable enough that anyone should be able to use a default > install and be productive. > > This is important to us, since this is what would make Linux a viable > alternative to Windows and MacOS X, and this is the end goal for Fedora. > Just because computer enthusiasts are who currently most use Fedora we > shouldn't ignore this. > > The fact is that enthusiasts (like everyone on this mailing list) can > easily configure their desktop the way they want, and they all do > (differently, and very often so that it looks and works similar to some > older setup we've gotten used to). However, "normal" users (and I know > this is a bad term) typically won't ever change anything from the > default, and its therefore important that we design the defaults with > them foremost in mind. > > The terminal is an important part of Unix, and believe me, I spend most > of my time in a terminal. However, the idea of the desktop and a gui is > that you're supposed to be able to use the computer and be productive > without having to learn and remember a lot of commands. A terminal isn't > very good for this (even if its very efficient for other things), so > pushing one on the user that doesn't need it is bad. > > This doesn't mean we should *hide* the terminal, we just shouldn't > expose it extra prominently in the UI. If you're a user that needs to > start a terminal often, then by default you're a user that is able to > add a terminal icon to the panel in less than 5 seconds, and chances are > that you're already not using the default setup anyway. > > =-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-= > Alexander Larsson Red Hat, Inc > alexl at redhat.com alla at lysator.liu.se > He's an obese zombie barbarian gone bad. She's a beautiful wisecracking > traffic cop trying to make a difference in a man's world. They fight crime! > > > -- > Fedora-desktop-list mailing list > Fedora-desktop-list at redhat.com > http://www.redhat.com/mailman/listinfo/fedora-desktop-list From jaap at haitsma.org Thu Nov 20 20:11:48 2003 From: jaap at haitsma.org (Jaap A. Haitsma) Date: Thu, 20 Nov 2003 21:11:48 +0100 Subject: [Fedora-desktop-list] Suggestion for panel and applications menu In-Reply-To: <1069322308.21662.91.camel@localhost.localdomain> References: <1069280500.2301.14.camel@PC67148135> <1069322308.21662.91.camel@localhost.localdomain> Message-ID: <1069359107.2425.24.camel@PC67148135> Alex, Some comments and some other ideas. Hope they help :-) On do, 2003-11-20 at 10:58, Alexander Larsson wrote: > On Wed, 2003-11-19 at 23:21, Jaap A. Haitsma wrote: > > Hi, > > > > I have some comments/suggestions about the current gnome desktop in > > Fedora. (Feel free to burn the comments/suggestions in flames ;-) ) > > > > * I find the standard gnome panel at the bottom of the screen very > > clunky, because it fills up a large part of the screen. (I know I can > > auto hide it or make it smaller.) I find smaller panel (or 2 panels) > > like they use in ximian desktop See: > > http://www.ximian.com/images/screenshots/desktop/browsing-windows-network.png > > looking much more modern > > The two panels use exactly the same total amount of screen space, but I > agree that buttons on a larger panel use more space. However, its also > harder to hit the smaller buttons for people with less control and/or > eyesight, for instance older people. It's true that they occupy the same space, but according to me it looks a whole lot better.. You could also opt for just one small bar. I don't want to offend the people who have physical problems with for smaller panels, but I believe that the default desktop should be geared towards the average user. For people with physical problems there should be ideally an option that switches the desktop to a setting which is appropriate for them. > > * I find the menus Preferences, System Settings and System tools quite > > confusing. They contain many similar menu items and if you would make a > > quiz show in which of the three a certain setting should be set, I think > > the average user would not do that well. > > I'd like to suggest to have one "Configuration" (or whatever what you > > want to call it) menu, where you have two sections: user preferences > > (which sets options for the current user that is logged in) and system > > preferences (for setting system wide settings for which you need to be > > or become root) > > Does this help much though? There are still two menus that you have to > look in, and if you didn't know how to find something in the current > system, how would you know in the new? All it does is add depth to the > menu, making it harder to navigate. > > I guess for experienced linux users you'd *know* which settings need > root and which do not (because you know what underlying operations the > config tools do), but e.g. the difference between the XRandR gnome tool > that lets you change resolution without root and redhat-config-xfree > which needs root access is not at all obvious to unexperienced users. > Also, I don't see how system tools fits into the config category. > > At the core there are three types of configuration tools: > 1) Changes that affect only the current user > 2) Changes that configure the current machine (X config, network, > soundcard, etc) > 3) Configuration of system services that aren't user things, nor really > machine specific (apache server config, dns server config, database > config, etc) > > And even in category 1 there are two types of configurations, those that > are real "preferences", i.e. what the user prefers in the user > interface, but that don't affect the app working or not (colors, theme, > ui organization, etc) and "settings", things that must be set correctly > to make the software work (imap server address, http proxy address, > etc). > > The user/root split is mostly a 1 vs 2+3 split, although not perfect, > but mixing services such as apache with network settings probably don't > make things easier to find/understand. > > Getting a good organization for this is extremely hard. Much of the > problem is due to the fact that there just are so many settings, and > unfortunately many of them are pretty useless for the user. I mean, much > of the stuff of type 2 should *just work*, and need little or no > configuration. Getting as much of this working *without* config tools is > the long term goal. However, at the moment we just have to do our best > to try to organize the tools we have in the menus. > > Its important to notice that having fewer config tools is important even > for experienced users, these users have no problem understanding what > the config tools do, but they still have problems finding the right tool > if there are too many different tools. Getting rid of unnecessary > settings increses efficiency for everyone. I agree with you totally that there should less settings. My main problem with the current menus is that there are 3 menus which do settings. Once everything is setup a desktop user does not use these menus very much anymore. So I would prefer have just 1 menu that does settings. I think your 2 and 3 could be combined to one, because they do both machine specific things. The current menu Preferences does not really make clear that they are user settings/preferences. Maybe rename this to User Settings (or Preferences) So then you would have two menus System Settings and User Settings. You could maybe put this in one application: Control Center. Where you have two views: user settings and system settings. You basically switch from a listing of system settings icons to a set of user preferences icons by pushing a button or so. Just trying to help Jaap From biusj at fayettevillenc.com Thu Nov 20 13:54:40 2003 From: biusj at fayettevillenc.com (Jon W. Bius) Date: Thu, 20 Nov 2003 08:54:40 -0500 Subject: [Fedora-desktop-list] Suggestion for panel and applications menu In-Reply-To: <1069280500.2301.14.camel@PC67148135> References: <1069280500.2301.14.camel@PC67148135> Message-ID: <1069336480.24250.20.camel@uranus.fayettevillepublishing.com> Greetings to all- On Wed, 2003-11-19 at 17:21, Jaap A. Haitsma wrote: > * I find the standard gnome panel at the bottom of the screen very > clunky, because it fills up a large part of the screen. (I know I can > auto hide it or make it smaller.) I find smaller panel (or 2 panels) > like they use in ximian desktop See: > http://www.ximian.com/images/screenshots/desktop/browsing-windows-network.png > looking much more modern I agree the Ximian desktop looks nice. Still- guessing how users will set up their desktop is hit or miss. Mine ends up looking nothing like Fedora or Ximian. If anything, I believe the targeted audience should be new converts to Linux in general, who will be looking for some familiarity. So keeping a Windows or Mac type feel helps give the uninitiated user clues about what is where. Right now Fedora leans toward a Windows look, IMO. Which is likely where you will see the most converts coming from. It's clean, simple and straightforward. I put my 11 year old daughter in front of it- and she went right to work. Maybe what would be helpful is some simple tutorials linked from a fresh desktop that show the user how to change things. Teach them to customize their desktop, and how it looks to start off with is almost irrelevant. > > * I find the menus Preferences, System Settings and System tools quite > confusing. They contain many similar menu items and if you would make a > quiz show in which of the three a certain setting should be set, I think > the average user would not do that well. > I'd like to suggest to have one "Configuration" (or whatever what you > want to call it) menu, where you have two sections: user preferences > (which sets options for the current user that is logged in) and system > preferences (for setting system wide settings for which you need to be > or become root) I agree with you here. Every distro I've seen has fairly cluttered menus. The sheer number of apps available is staggering. I prefer the stock Gnome menu myself- it's rather straightforward. I'd advocate removing as much as possible from the menus, and where possible simplifying the categories. Again- targeting the convert, not the experienced user. Jon Parkton, NC, USA -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From kevin at loose-screws.com Thu Nov 20 14:24:14 2003 From: kevin at loose-screws.com (Kevin Francis) Date: Thu, 20 Nov 2003 22:24:14 +0800 Subject: [Fedora-desktop-list] changing Gnome panel buttons In-Reply-To: <1069277065.17309.34.camel@localhost.localdomain> References: <3FBB7B17.7050800@fnal.gov> <3FBBB5DA.6020900@virtual1.net> <1069277065.17309.34.camel@localhost.localdomain> Message-ID: <3FBCCE8E.4000100@loose-screws.com> i agree. leave the terminal be. 2 seconds isn't going to change anyones impression. having a direct link to a terminal will however change my brothers impression of his desktop ( he's a windows user ) to "techy". -- Kevin Francis Havoc Pennington wrote: > On Wed, 2003-11-19 at 13:26, Kreg Steppe wrote: > >>I think that since Fedora isn't geared towards Home users any longer, >>but towards enthusiasts, and the like, I think that maybe there could be >>a little re-engineering of the defaults. I for one, the first thing that >>I do, is pull that icon right to my panel. >> > > > I'm not sure the idea of Fedora is only command line or old-school unix > people though; rather early adopters, people willing to try new things. > I feel like as developers of the desktop part of the OS, we should maybe > try to dogfood and avoid the command line as much as possible. Though > I'm not the best at this myself. > > My feeling on terminal on the panel has always been that it takes > approximately 2 seconds to add the icon, so I haven't ever understood > why people feel it's so important to have there by default. > > Havoc > > > > -- > Fedora-desktop-list mailing list > Fedora-desktop-list at redhat.com > http://www.redhat.com/mailman/listinfo/fedora-desktop-list From biusj at fayettevillenc.com Thu Nov 20 16:25:55 2003 From: biusj at fayettevillenc.com (Jon W. Bius) Date: Thu, 20 Nov 2003 11:25:55 -0500 Subject: [Fedora-desktop-list] Fedora Backgrounds Message-ID: <1069345555.24250.49.camel@uranus.fayettevillepublishing.com> I'd like to create some Fedora specific backgrounds for consideration. What font is used in the "Fedora" lettering? Is there a "Fedora palette"? Jon -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From dawson at fnal.gov Fri Nov 21 15:23:59 2003 From: dawson at fnal.gov (Troy Dawson) Date: Fri, 21 Nov 2003 09:23:59 -0600 Subject: [Fedora-desktop-list] Changing default Gnome panel buttons - please Message-ID: <3FBE2E0F.5050300@fnal.gov> Hello Again, I have now been told by every fedora mailling list that this is indeed the list to ask this question. I can understand if most of you don't any idea how to do this, but the person who makes the changes for Fedora should be on this list and if he, or any one else knows how, please as least give me a bigger hint than RTFM. After reading at least 50 of them, two versions of the gnome administration manual (2.2 and 2.4), along with the user manuals that go with them, and so much code and changelogs that I'm rather sick of them. I'd like to sum it all up from one of the Austin Power movies. "Throw me a friggin bone" What file, or set of files, do you need to modify, to change the default gnome-panel buttons? By default I mean the buttons that a newly created user would see. Troy Dawson From jrb at redhat.com Fri Nov 21 15:36:01 2003 From: jrb at redhat.com (Jonathan Blandford) Date: 21 Nov 2003 10:36:01 -0500 Subject: [Fedora-desktop-list] Changing default Gnome panel buttons - please In-Reply-To: <3FBE2E0F.5050300@fnal.gov> References: <3FBE2E0F.5050300@fnal.gov> Message-ID: Troy Dawson writes: > What file, or set of files, do you need to modify, to change the > default gnome-panel buttons? > By default I mean the buttons that a newly created user would see. The sysadmin guide at http://www.gnome.org/learn/ has a section on configuring the panel. You should start there. Taking a quick look: http://www.gnome.org/learn/admin-guide/latest/gconf-8.html#gconf-14 has information. Good luck, -Jonathan From occy at occy.net Fri Nov 21 15:41:47 2003 From: occy at occy.net (Trae McCombs) Date: Fri, 21 Nov 2003 10:41:47 -0500 Subject: [Fedora-desktop-list] Changing default Gnome panel buttons - please In-Reply-To: <3FBE2E0F.5050300@fnal.gov> References: <3FBE2E0F.5050300@fnal.gov> Message-ID: <1069429307.11090.14.camel@airwaves> Hey Troy, I could be totally wrong here, but I did some checking and a friend of mine, suggested maybe this area: /etc/gconf/gconf.xml.defaults/apps/panel/default_setup/objects I don't know if that's right or not... but it's some place to start. I would also consider hanging on #gnome perhaps... on irc.gnome.org I'm "occy" there if you need any help. Maybe together we can fixx0r it. :) Trae On Fri, 2003-11-21 at 10:23, Troy Dawson wrote: > Hello Again, > I have now been told by every fedora mailling list that this is indeed > the list to ask this question. > > I can understand if most of you don't any idea how to do this, but the > person who makes the changes for Fedora should be on this list and if > he, or any one else knows how, please as least give me a bigger hint > than RTFM. After reading at least 50 of them, two versions of the gnome > administration manual (2.2 and 2.4), along with the user manuals that go > with them, and so much code and changelogs that I'm rather sick of > them. I'd like to sum it all up from one of the Austin Power movies. > > "Throw me a friggin bone" > > What file, or set of files, do you need to modify, to change the default > gnome-panel buttons? > By default I mean the buttons that a newly created user would see. > > Troy Dawson > > > > -- > Fedora-desktop-list mailing list > Fedora-desktop-list at redhat.com > http://www.redhat.com/mailman/listinfo/fedora-desktop-list -- Trae McCombs http://occy.net/ From biusj at fayettevillenc.com Fri Nov 21 15:55:14 2003 From: biusj at fayettevillenc.com (Jon W. Bius) Date: Fri, 21 Nov 2003 10:55:14 -0500 Subject: [Fedora-desktop-list] Changing default Gnome panel buttons - please In-Reply-To: <3FBE2E0F.5050300@fnal.gov> References: <3FBE2E0F.5050300@fnal.gov> Message-ID: <1069430113.29015.23.camel@uranus.fayettevillepublishing.com> In digging through GConf editor, I found something under /apps/panel/default_setup/general that pointed to the locations of the panel. It actually contained the stuff that is in the default setup. I'm not sure if that helps, but if it's something that could be edited within ~/.gconf, couldn't that be placed in /etc/skel so that new users would be created with those setting? (I'm basing the /etc/skel part on what I read in "Red Hat Linux 9 Bible".) On Fri, 2003-11-21 at 10:23, Troy Dawson wrote: > Hello Again, > I have now been told by every fedora mailling list that this is indeed > the list to ask this question. > > I can understand if most of you don't any idea how to do this, but the > person who makes the changes for Fedora should be on this list and if > he, or any one else knows how, please as least give me a bigger hint > than RTFM. After reading at least 50 of them, two versions of the gnome > administration manual (2.2 and 2.4), along with the user manuals that go > with them, and so much code and changelogs that I'm rather sick of > them. I'd like to sum it all up from one of the Austin Power movies. > > "Throw me a friggin bone" > > What file, or set of files, do you need to modify, to change the default > gnome-panel buttons? > By default I mean the buttons that a newly created user would see. > > Troy Dawson > > > > -- > Fedora-desktop-list mailing list > Fedora-desktop-list at redhat.com > http://www.redhat.com/mailman/listinfo/fedora-desktop-list ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ Jon W. Bius Online Services Manager The Fayetteville (NC) Observer 910-486-3575 biusj at fayettevillenc.com ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From biusj at fayettevillenc.com Fri Nov 21 15:59:39 2003 From: biusj at fayettevillenc.com (Jon W. Bius) Date: Fri, 21 Nov 2003 10:59:39 -0500 Subject: [Fedora-desktop-list] Challenge to use of Fedora name Message-ID: <1069430379.29015.27.camel@uranus.fayettevillepublishing.com> Anyone heard any more on this announcement at http://www.fedora.info/fedora.htm? Nutshell is Cornell University and University of Virginia developed an open-source digital repository management system under the name Fedora, and released it in May 2003. The announcement says "The Cornell and Virginia teams have taken a number of steps to try to work with Red Hat regarding use of the name Fedora???. At this date, Red Hat has refused our request to withdraw its trademark applications and reverse its claims of usage restrictions on the name. Cornell University and the University of Virginia are now considering various legal options in response to Red Hat???s actions. " ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ Jon W. Bius Online Services Manager The Fayetteville (NC) Observer 910-486-3575 biusj at fayettevillenc.com ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From skvidal at phy.duke.edu Fri Nov 21 16:00:59 2003 From: skvidal at phy.duke.edu (seth vidal) Date: Fri, 21 Nov 2003 11:00:59 -0500 Subject: [Fedora-desktop-list] Challenge to use of Fedora name In-Reply-To: <1069430379.29015.27.camel@uranus.fayettevillepublishing.com> References: <1069430379.29015.27.camel@uranus.fayettevillepublishing.com> Message-ID: <1069430458.3551.5.camel@binkley> On Fri, 2003-11-21 at 10:59, Jon W. Bius wrote: > Anyone heard any more on this announcement at > http://www.fedora.info/fedora.htm? > > Nutshell is Cornell University and University of Virginia developed an > open-source digital repository management system under the name > Fedora, and released it in May 2003. > As I've posted on other lists: Hi, I talked with Michael Johnson who is cited as the leader of the fedora project on the fedora.redhat.com pages. He talked with the legal counsel at red hat and got the following info. - the fedora.info people haven't tried to take a number of steps to work it out - they've taken none - fedora.info was only using f.e.d.o.r.a as an acronym -not as a trademark - only after the rh trademark filing did fedora.info assert a trademark - rh had previously informed uva and cornell that rh would not interfere with their continued use of the fedora trademark. - the fedora has been associated with red hat ever since the shadowman logo was adopted. so there is some more exact info. it seems to me rh has acted both legally and ethically correct - especially that they told uva and cornell that they would not interfere with the use of the term for the fedora.info project. -sv From dawson at fnal.gov Fri Nov 21 17:09:57 2003 From: dawson at fnal.gov (Troy Dawson) Date: Fri, 21 Nov 2003 11:09:57 -0600 Subject: [Fedora-desktop-list] Changing default Gnome panel buttons - please In-Reply-To: <3FBE2E0F.5050300@fnal.gov> References: <3FBE2E0F.5050300@fnal.gov> Message-ID: <3FBE46E5.70202@fnal.gov> Hi, Thanks for the help. And thanks to those that tossed me some bones :) I'm going to move this over to gnome's maillist lists. I am currently working on RedHat 9 and RedHat Enterprise 3, and don't have access to my actual Fedora machine, but I thought the configurations would still be close enough, but it looks like they arn't. I believe I'm going to have to do things different between Gnome 2.2 and 2.4. It certainly looks like it is easier to set it in gnome 2.4 (Fedora) versus 2.2 (RedHat 9 and Enterprise 3) I'm sorry to have bothered ya'll. If you wish, I'll post the answer when I get it. Thanks again. Troy Dawson Troy Dawson wrote: > Hello Again, > I have now been told by every fedora mailling list that this is indeed > the list to ask this question. > > I can understand if most of you don't any idea how to do this, but the > person who makes the changes for Fedora should be on this list and if > he, or any one else knows how, please as least give me a bigger hint > than RTFM. After reading at least 50 of them, two versions of the > gnome administration manual (2.2 and 2.4), along with the user manuals > that go with them, and so much code and changelogs that I'm rather > sick of them. I'd like to sum it all up from one of the Austin Power > movies. > > "Throw me a friggin bone" > > What file, or set of files, do you need to modify, to change the > default gnome-panel buttons? > By default I mean the buttons that a newly created user would see. > > Troy Dawson > -- __________________________________________________ Troy Dawson dawson at fnal.gov (630)840-6468 Fermilab ComputingDivision/CSS CSI Group __________________________________________________ From kevin at loose-screws.com Tue Nov 25 10:54:20 2003 From: kevin at loose-screws.com (Kevin Francis) Date: Tue, 25 Nov 2003 18:54:20 +0800 Subject: [Fedora-desktop-list] What is it with the new Subject prefix? Message-ID: <3FC334DC.8070200@loose-screws.com> Why do we have this [Fedora-Desktop-List] tag on all emails? it consumes space and is unneeded. I now have to devote loads of space to the subject field :/ As for the excuse that some need it to filter, that's not really a reason, as there are at least two other things they can filter on, and it's easy in clients such as Mozilla Thunderbird, Evolution or even procmail/mutt. The ONLY client not able to do this is MS Outlook in my experience. -- Kevin Francis From alexl at redhat.com Tue Nov 25 17:50:19 2003 From: alexl at redhat.com (Alexander Larsson) Date: 25 Nov 2003 18:50:19 +0100 Subject: [Fedora-desktop-list] What is it with the new Subject prefix? In-Reply-To: <3FC334DC.8070200@loose-screws.com> References: <3FC334DC.8070200@loose-screws.com> Message-ID: <1069782618.19768.28.camel@localhost.localdomain> On Tue, 2003-11-25 at 11:54, Kevin Francis wrote: > Why do we have this [Fedora-Desktop-List] tag on all emails? > it consumes space and is unneeded. I now have to devote loads of space > to the subject field :/ > > As for the excuse that some need it to filter, that's not really a > reason, as there are at least two other things they can filter on, and > it's easy in clients such as Mozilla Thunderbird, Evolution or even > procmail/mutt. > > The ONLY client not able to do this is MS Outlook in my experience. Yeah, its pretty useless, and something no other redhat lists use. =-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-= Alexander Larsson Red Hat, Inc alexl at redhat.com alla at lysator.liu.se He's a genetically engineered drug-addicted cat burglar from a doomed world. She's a mentally unstable impetuous nun in the wrong place at the wrong time. They fight crime! From biusj at fayettevillenc.com Tue Nov 25 18:20:54 2003 From: biusj at fayettevillenc.com (Jon W. Bius) Date: Tue, 25 Nov 2003 13:20:54 -0500 Subject: [Fwd: [Fedora-desktop-list] Fedora Backgrounds] Message-ID: <1069784454.15841.59.camel@uranus.fayettevillepublishing.com> Any takers? I'd really like to contribute... Jon Parkton, NC -----Forwarded Message----- From: Jon W. Bius To: Fedora- Desktop Subject: [Fedora-desktop-list] Fedora Backgrounds Date: Thu, 20 Nov 2003 11:25:55 -0500 I'd like to create some Fedora specific backgrounds for consideration. What font is used in the "Fedora" lettering? Is there a "Fedora palette"? -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From kevin at loose-screws.com Wed Nov 26 06:07:51 2003 From: kevin at loose-screws.com (Kevin Francis) Date: Wed, 26 Nov 2003 14:07:51 +0800 Subject: [Fedora-desktop-list] What is it with the new Subject prefix? In-Reply-To: <1069782618.19768.28.camel@localhost.localdomain> References: <3FC334DC.8070200@loose-screws.com> <1069782618.19768.28.camel@localhost.localdomain> Message-ID: <1069826870.4970.5.camel@aerie> To illustrate that I am not just kicking a fuss for nothing please see . You'll note that I can't read what the `Changing default ...' is :) And please note that I run a rather high resolution to begin with. What about those @ 800*600 or 1024*768? On Wed, 2003-11-26 at 01:50, Alexander Larsson wrote: > On Tue, 2003-11-25 at 11:54, Kevin Francis wrote: > > Why do we have this [Fedora-Desktop-List] tag on all emails? > > it consumes space and is unneeded. I now have to devote loads of space > > to the subject field :/ > > > > As for the excuse that some need it to filter, that's not really a > > reason, as there are at least two other things they can filter on, and > > it's easy in clients such as Mozilla Thunderbird, Evolution or even > > procmail/mutt. > > > > The ONLY client not able to do this is MS Outlook in my experience. > > Yeah, its pretty useless, and something no other redhat lists use. > > =-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-= > Alexander Larsson Red Hat, Inc > alexl at redhat.com alla at lysator.liu.se > He's a genetically engineered drug-addicted cat burglar from a doomed world. > She's a mentally unstable impetuous nun in the wrong place at the wrong time. > They fight crime! > > > -- > Fedora-desktop-list mailing list > Fedora-desktop-list at redhat.com > http://www.redhat.com/mailman/listinfo/fedora-desktop-list -- Kevin G Francis From tdiehl at rogueind.com Wed Nov 26 06:37:43 2003 From: tdiehl at rogueind.com (Tom Diehl) Date: Wed, 26 Nov 2003 01:37:43 -0500 (EST) Subject: What is it with the new Subject prefix? In-Reply-To: <1069826870.4970.5.camel@aerie> References: <3FC334DC.8070200@loose-screws.com> <1069782618.19768.28.camel@localhost.localdomain> <1069826870.4970.5.camel@aerie> Message-ID: On Wed, 26 Nov 2003, Kevin Francis wrote: > To illustrate that I am not just kicking a fuss for nothing please see > . > You'll note that I can't read what the `Changing default ...' is :) > > And please note that I run a rather high resolution to begin with. What > about those @ 800*600 or 1024*768? > > On Wed, 2003-11-26 at 01:50, Alexander Larsson wrote: > > On Tue, 2003-11-25 at 11:54, Kevin Francis wrote: > > > Why do we have this [Fedora-Desktop-List] tag on all emails? Because someone chose the stupid mailman defaults. IMHO it should be turned off like all of the other Red Hat lists. Failing that you can use a creative procmail recipie to automagically filter the thing out. Another possibly more effective solution would be to send a message to the list maintainer ask ask nicely to turn it off. Given that ALL of the other Red Hat lists have it off your changes of success are high. It was most likely an oversite. ...........Tom From ready at rosa.com Tue Nov 25 17:20:44 2003 From: ready at rosa.com (Marky Goldstein) Date: Tue, 25 Nov 2003 18:20:44 +0100 Subject: [Fedora-desktop-list] Artwork? In-Reply-To: <3FC334DC.8070200@loose-screws.com> References: <3FC334DC.8070200@loose-screws.com> Message-ID: <3FC38F6C.40805@rosa.com> I wonder if you need design... We can deliver design, in any fashion. I was also wondering why there is no design (database) on the fedora site... I don't see any nice pictures in the artwork area ;-> Greets, Marky Kevin Francis wrote: > Why do we have this [Fedora-Desktop-List] tag on all emails? > it consumes space and is unneeded. I now have to devote loads of space > to the subject field :/ > > As for the excuse that some need it to filter, that's not really a > reason, as there are at least two other things they can filter on, and > it's easy in clients such as Mozilla Thunderbird, Evolution or even > procmail/mutt. > > The ONLY client not able to do this is MS Outlook in my experience. > > -- > Kevin Francis > > > > -- > Fedora-desktop-list mailing list > Fedora-desktop-list at redhat.com > http://www.redhat.com/mailman/listinfo/fedora-desktop-list From otaylor at redhat.com Wed Nov 26 17:05:51 2003 From: otaylor at redhat.com (Owen Taylor) Date: Wed, 26 Nov 2003 12:05:51 -0500 Subject: What is it with the new Subject prefix? In-Reply-To: References: <3FC334DC.8070200@loose-screws.com> <1069782618.19768.28.camel@localhost.localdomain> <1069826870.4970.5.camel@aerie> Message-ID: <1069866351.4863.8.camel@localhost.localdomain> On Wed, 2003-11-26 at 01:37, Tom Diehl wrote: > On Wed, 26 Nov 2003, Kevin Francis wrote: > > > To illustrate that I am not just kicking a fuss for nothing please see > > . > > You'll note that I can't read what the `Changing default ...' is :) > > > > And please note that I run a rather high resolution to begin with. What > > about those @ 800*600 or 1024*768? > > > > On Wed, 2003-11-26 at 01:50, Alexander Larsson wrote: > > > On Tue, 2003-11-25 at 11:54, Kevin Francis wrote: > > > > Why do we have this [Fedora-Desktop-List] tag on all emails? > > Because someone chose the stupid mailman defaults. IMHO it should be turned > off like all of the other Red Hat lists. Failing that you can use a creative > procmail recipie to automagically filter the thing out. Another possibly more > effective solution would be to send a message to the list maintainer ask ask > nicely to turn it off. Given that ALL of the other Red Hat lists have it off > your changes of success are high. It was most likely an oversite. Yeah, it was just an oversight. I pinged people and (as you'll see from the Subject: on your mail) and we got it fixed yesterday. Regards, Owen From harry at shoka.net Thu Nov 27 14:50:40 2003 From: harry at shoka.net (Harry Moyes) Date: Thu, 27 Nov 2003 14:50:40 +0000 Subject: CD Artwork Message-ID: <1069944640.3757.12.camel@shoka> All I'm guessing this is appropriate here, since I guess it qualifies as an "artwork" question. Would it be reasonable to publish a standard CD artwork and jewel case insert for Fedora? Ideally one that fully complies with Red Hat's trademark guidelines for using the Fedora name. I've read the guidelines several times, and I'm not convinced that I understand them fully. I'm thinking that people that want to do the right thing can then meet the guidelines by simply using the provided labels. If the usage guidelines could include a pointer to the "preferred" artwork, better still. Cheers Harry Moyes From stevelist at silverorange.com Thu Nov 27 15:16:57 2003 From: stevelist at silverorange.com (Steven Garrity) Date: Thu, 27 Nov 2003 11:16:57 -0400 Subject: CD Artwork In-Reply-To: <1069944640.3757.12.camel@shoka> References: <1069944640.3757.12.camel@shoka> Message-ID: <3FC61569.4000901@silverorange.com> > Would it be reasonable to publish a standard CD artwork and jewel case > insert for Fedora? This isn't and answer to your question, but if you are producing CDs and CD artwork, you might want to check out http://www.jewelboxing.com/ - they have some really nice cases and label templates. Steven Garrity From garrett at redhat.com Fri Nov 28 02:41:58 2003 From: garrett at redhat.com (Garrett LeSage) Date: Thu, 27 Nov 2003 21:41:58 -0500 Subject: CD Artwork In-Reply-To: <1069944640.3757.12.camel@shoka> References: <1069944640.3757.12.camel@shoka> Message-ID: <3FC6B5F6.2070406@redhat.com> Harry Moyes wrote: >All > >I'm guessing this is appropriate here, since I guess it qualifies as an >"artwork" question. > >Would it be reasonable to publish a standard CD artwork and jewel case >insert for Fedora? > > I have actually had several people email me directly on this specific topic. The CD labels and case artwork should probably either resemble the splash screens or desktop background of each release, or just be a bit on the simple side. I don't know of a standard template to use, however. As far as I know, each label kit uses its own layout. Of course, this fact complicates things slightly. (: Garrett From harry at shoka.net Fri Nov 28 12:19:22 2003 From: harry at shoka.net (Harry Moyes) Date: Fri, 28 Nov 2003 12:19:22 +0000 Subject: CD Artwork In-Reply-To: <3FC6B5F6.2070406@redhat.com> References: <1069944640.3757.12.camel@shoka> <3FC6B5F6.2070406@redhat.com> Message-ID: <1070021962.3757.34.camel@shoka> On Fri, 2003-11-28 at 02:41, Garrett LeSage wrote: > I don't know of a standard template to use, however. As far as I know, > each label kit uses its own layout. Of course, this fact complicates > things slightly. (: I would be quite happy with png images. They could be imported into most label printer packages. I guess it would be easiest to ship images for each CD, an image for the booklet for a jewel case, the back insert for a jewel case, and an image for a front card for a slimline case. Could be quite a lot of images I guess. Alternatively, provide an example of each, with details of the font size and colour for the variable text, and a set of images without the variable text. Most CD labelling packages I've played with will let you overlay text on an image, and vary the font and colour. Provided the images were of the correct proportion, and had whatever trademark/disclaimer/info that Red Hat was happy with, that would work. And if its part of an image, folks can't mess with it so easily. You don't need the images for the cd labels to match the cd shape, all the packages I've played with expect a square image, and crop it to a circle on printout. Of course you could ship a set of files for glabels, which is available for FH1, don't remember now if I got it from the original install or from one of the additional repository's. Its GNU free and fairly easy to add additional label stock types, or at least I managed :) Harry From nandox7 at myrealbox.com Sun Nov 30 06:14:00 2003 From: nandox7 at myrealbox.com (Nando) Date: Sun, 30 Nov 2003 06:14:00 -0000 Subject: Artwork proposal. Message-ID: <002601c3b709$261a6ac0$fd01a8c0@scorpion> Hi everyone, I'd like to propose a change in the icon of the "Show Desktop Button" of gnome. Like some other persons, i think is not "compatible" with the themes of fedora, if possible a more bluecurve style icon would be excellent. Thanks. Nando -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From darksyntax at 6535137hfc181.tampabay.rr.com Sun Nov 30 23:38:33 2003 From: darksyntax at 6535137hfc181.tampabay.rr.com (Fernando Fernandez) Date: Sun, 30 Nov 2003 18:38:33 -0500 Subject: Fedora-desktop-list digest, Vol 1 #18 - 1 msg In-Reply-To: <20031130170004.11443.50258.Mailman@listman.back-rdu.redhat.com> References: <20031130170004.11443.50258.Mailman@listman.back-rdu.redhat.com> Message-ID: <1070235512.4305.4.camel@6535136hfc232.tampabay.rr.com> I was thinking of making an alternate icon for myself to replace "the hat on the panel". Maybe something slightly different to reflect fedora. I was considering making the hat's brim more angular and putting a feather in the black band. WHat does everyone think about this?