From cstringer18 at yahoo.com Mon Mar 1 15:08:05 2004 From: cstringer18 at yahoo.com (chris stringer) Date: Mon, 1 Mar 2004 07:08:05 -0800 (PST) Subject: Lock up Message-ID: <20040301150805.11952.qmail@web21206.mail.yahoo.com> I am new to Fedora Core and am having trouble geting it to run on my laptop. I have a Compaq Presario 2580, 40GB, 512 MB 802.11g 10/100NIC, CDRW/DVD. I have loaded the program, configured boot to dual boot with Win XP (The borg). When I select Fedora from my boot list it starts and then freezes direcly after it says loading local drives. If anyone has information on how I can fix this eror I would greatly appriciate the help. I love linux, and had it running on my old Dell laptop, Redhat 8.0. I can run a live eval of SuSE 8.1, so I dont think it is a campatability issue, but I still cant configure Feora to run. Please help me. ===== Chris Stringer cstringer18 at yahoo.com __________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? Get better spam protection with Yahoo! Mail. http://antispam.yahoo.com/tools From knxmay001 at mail.uct.ac.za Mon Mar 1 15:17:13 2004 From: knxmay001 at mail.uct.ac.za (Maynard Kuona) Date: Mon, 01 Mar 2004 17:17:13 +0200 Subject: Lock up In-Reply-To: <20040301150805.11952.qmail@web21206.mail.yahoo.com> References: <20040301150805.11952.qmail@web21206.mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <1078154233.22357.0.camel@albert> On Mon, 2004-03-01 at 17:08, chris stringer wrote: > I am new to Fedora Core and am having trouble geting > it to run on my laptop. I have a Compaq Presario > 2580, 40GB, 512 MB 802.11g 10/100NIC, CDRW/DVD. I > have loaded the program, configured boot to dual boot > with Win XP (The borg). When I select Fedora from my > boot list it starts and then freezes direcly after it > says loading local drives. > > If anyone has information on how I can fix this eror I > would greatly appriciate the help. I love linux, and > had it running on my old Dell laptop, Redhat 8.0. I > can run a live eval of SuSE 8.1, so I dont think it is > a campatability issue, but I still cant configure > Feora to run. > > Please help me. > You might want to post this in the fedora-list where there are lots more people. Also, be more specific. What messages are you getting right before it freezes. From leonard at den.ottolander.nl Mon Mar 1 15:16:58 2004 From: leonard at den.ottolander.nl (Leonard den Ottolander) Date: Mon, 01 Mar 2004 16:16:58 +0100 Subject: Lock up In-Reply-To: <20040301150805.11952.qmail@web21206.mail.yahoo.com> References: <20040301150805.11952.qmail@web21206.mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <1078154218.5359.1.camel@athlon.localdomain> Hello Chris, > I am new to Fedora Core and am having trouble geting > it to run on my laptop. This list is for discussing development issues related to the desktop. You better ask your question on the fedora-list. See http://www.redhat.com/mailman/listinfo/fedora-list . Leonard. -- mount -t life -o ro /dev/dna /genetic/research From linux at bytebot.net Mon Mar 1 15:19:20 2004 From: linux at bytebot.net (Colin Charles) Date: Mon, 01 Mar 2004 23:19:20 +0800 Subject: Lock up In-Reply-To: <20040301150805.11952.qmail@web21206.mail.yahoo.com> References: <20040301150805.11952.qmail@web21206.mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <1078154359.9583.66.camel@hermione> On Mon, 2004-03-01 at 23:08, chris stringer wrote: Chris, The correct list is fedora-list at redhat.com, so please post your question there. All the best in getting your problem solved! > I am new to Fedora Core and am having trouble geting > it to run on my laptop. I have a Compaq Presario > 2580, 40GB, 512 MB 802.11g 10/100NIC, CDRW/DVD. I > have loaded the program, configured boot to dual boot > with Win XP (The borg). When I select Fedora from my > boot list it starts and then freezes direcly after it > says loading local drives. > > If anyone has information on how I can fix this eror I > would greatly appriciate the help. I love linux, and > had it running on my old Dell laptop, Redhat 8.0. I > can run a live eval of SuSE 8.1, so I dont think it is > a campatability issue, but I still cant configure > Feora to run. > > Please help me. > > ===== > Chris Stringer > cstringer18 at yahoo.com > > __________________________________ > Do you Yahoo!? > Get better spam protection with Yahoo! Mail. > http://antispam.yahoo.com/tools -- Colin Charles, byte at aeon.com.my http://www.bytebot.net/ http://training.bytebot.net/ - FREE OpenOffice.org Training http://fedoranews.org/colin/fnu/ - Fedora News Updates From cstringer18 at yahoo.com Mon Mar 1 15:24:34 2004 From: cstringer18 at yahoo.com (chris stringer) Date: Mon, 1 Mar 2004 07:24:34 -0800 (PST) Subject: Lock up In-Reply-To: <1078154359.9583.66.camel@hermione> Message-ID: <20040301152434.16776.qmail@web21206.mail.yahoo.com> Sorry --- Colin Charles wrote: > On Mon, 2004-03-01 at 23:08, chris stringer wrote: > > Chris, > > The correct list is fedora-list at redhat.com, so > please post your question > there. All the best in getting your problem solved! > > > I am new to Fedora Core and am having trouble > geting > > it to run on my laptop. I have a Compaq Presario > > 2580, 40GB, 512 MB 802.11g 10/100NIC, CDRW/DVD. I > > have loaded the program, configured boot to dual > boot > > with Win XP (The borg). When I select Fedora from > my > > boot list it starts and then freezes direcly after > it > > says loading local drives. > > > > If anyone has information on how I can fix this > eror I > > would greatly appriciate the help. I love linux, > and > > had it running on my old Dell laptop, Redhat 8.0. > I > > can run a live eval of SuSE 8.1, so I dont think > it is > > a campatability issue, but I still cant configure > > Feora to run. > > > > Please help me. > > > > ===== > > Chris Stringer > > cstringer18 at yahoo.com > > > > __________________________________ > > Do you Yahoo!? > > Get better spam protection with Yahoo! Mail. > > http://antispam.yahoo.com/tools > -- > Colin Charles, byte at aeon.com.my > http://www.bytebot.net/ > http://training.bytebot.net/ - FREE OpenOffice.org > Training > http://fedoranews.org/colin/fnu/ - Fedora News > Updates > > > -- > Fedora-desktop-list mailing list > Fedora-desktop-list at redhat.com > http://www.redhat.com/mailman/listinfo/fedora-desktop-list ===== Chris Stringer cstringer18 at yahoo.com __________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? Get better spam protection with Yahoo! Mail. http://antispam.yahoo.com/tools From galdes.andrew at saugov.sa.gov.au Mon Mar 1 22:04:44 2004 From: galdes.andrew at saugov.sa.gov.au (Galdes, Andrew (ERHS)) Date: Tue, 2 Mar 2004 08:34:44 +1030 Subject: SIS Laptop (sis7012) Message-ID: Hello All, Long time Linux user but I'm having trouble with SIS7012 audio chipset on my laptop. I have played around with modules and various sound config tools but having trouble still. No audio at all (it has worked previously with 'alternative' operating systems. I would like to hear from anyone with experience with this chipset. Cheers. AG. From fred at sysgen.com.br Tue Mar 2 05:24:45 2004 From: fred at sysgen.com.br (Fred Ramos) Date: Tue, 02 Mar 2004 05:24:45 -0000 Subject: SIS Laptop (sis7012) Message-ID: <20040302052445.8055038A14@mail.calvin.sysgen.com.br> An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From jim.lemon at uts.edu.au Tue Mar 2 21:56:41 2004 From: jim.lemon at uts.edu.au (Jim Lemon) Date: Wed, 03 Mar 2004 08:56:41 +1100 Subject: I'd like to stick with RedHat... Message-ID: <0HTY006DHXYZYZ@mail.uts.edu.au> Hi, After quite a few years of using RedHat, I bought the Enterprise 3 WS distribution and installed it on a Dell Dimension desktop. I had been running RedHat v7.2 and it was, as usual, performing excellently. I was also planning to install it on my Web server, also running v7.2. However, the result was abysmal. Many of the applications didn't work properly or didn't work at all, Tcl-Tk wasn't there (although I eventually did manage to find it on one of the CDs - the Enterprise package system is pathetic), the USB ports disappeared and in the end, I simply had to reinstall v7.2 to get anything done. I didn't dare try installing on my Web server. As the subject line says, I'd like to stick with RedHat - it's been very good to me over the years, and I'm wondering if the Fedora stuff is continuing what I thought was the RedHat tradition of usability. Thanks for your patience and any advice you can provide. Jim Dr Jim Lemon Health Psychology Unit University of Technology, Sydney Feel free to ignore any garbage beneath this line. UTS CRICOS Provider Code: 00099F DISCLAIMER ======================================================================== This email message and any accompanying attachments may contain confidential information. If you are not the intended recipient, do not read, use, disseminate, distribute or copy this message or attachments. If you have received this message in error, please notify the sender immediately and delete this message. Any views expressed in this message are those of the individual sender, except where the sender expressly, and with authority, states them to be the views the University of Technology Sydney. Before opening any attachments, please check them for viruses and defects. ======================================================================== From leonard at den.ottolander.nl Tue Mar 2 22:36:26 2004 From: leonard at den.ottolander.nl (Leonard den Ottolander) Date: Tue, 02 Mar 2004 23:36:26 +0100 Subject: I'd like to stick with RedHat... In-Reply-To: <0HTY006DHXYZYZ@mail.uts.edu.au> References: <0HTY006DHXYZYZ@mail.uts.edu.au> Message-ID: <1078266986.4750.32.camel@athlon.localdomain> Hi Jim, > After quite a few years of using RedHat, I bought the Enterprise 3 WS > distribution and installed it on a Dell Dimension desktop. These kind of questions are better asked on the Taroon-list. See http://www.redhat.com/mailman/listinfo/fedora-list . This is more of a "development of the desktop" list. Leonard. -- mount -t life -o ro /dev/dna /genetic/research From galdes.andrew at saugov.sa.gov.au Tue Mar 2 23:40:41 2004 From: galdes.andrew at saugov.sa.gov.au (Galdes, Andrew (ERHS)) Date: Wed, 3 Mar 2004 10:10:41 +1030 Subject: SIS Laptop (sis7012) Message-ID: Hello Fred, I have tried that driver/modue before without luck. Although i will try it again. the model of the laptop is hard becuase its a re-badge. It is labled Notebook (which is not much help). It uses the sis650 graphics set and 7012 sound set. Thanks for the advice, i wi try that module again and see how i go I will report back with the error. AG. -----Original Message----- From: Fred Ramos [mailto:fred at sysgen.com.br] Sent: Tuesday, 2 March 2004 3:55 PM To: fedora-desktop-list at redhat.com; galdes.andrew at saugov.sa.gov.au Subject: Re: SIS Laptop (sis7012) Andrew, It would help to know the exact model of your Notebook. I have one Desknote from ECS that uses that chip and , although no sound when leaving it with the default driver, it works ok with the Intel810 Audio. Try it. Haven?t done it with Fedora yet, but that was the case in Mandrake and Red Hat, so I figure it is a common glitch. Good luck fedora-desktop-list at redhat.com wrote: > Hello All, > > Long time Linux user but I'm having trouble with SIS7012 audio chipset on my > laptop. I have played around with modules and various sound config tools but > having trouble still. No audio at all (it has worked previously with > 'alternative' operating systems. > > I would like to hear from anyone with experience with this chipset. Cheers. > > AG. > > > -- > Fedora-desktop-list mailing list > Fedora-desktop-list at redhat.com > http://www.redhat.com/mailman/listinfo/fedora-desktop-list > > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From fred at sysgen.com.br Wed Mar 3 01:09:23 2004 From: fred at sysgen.com.br (Fred Ramos) Date: Tue, 2 Mar 2004 22:09:23 -0300 Subject: SIS Laptop (sis7012) In-Reply-To: Message-ID: Hi again, Andrew; Look, here it is : http://www.ecs.com.tw/products/a928.htm As u can see in the specs, uses the same combination chipset you?ve mentioned. Good luck with your tests. -----Original Message----- From: fedora-desktop-list-admin at redhat.com [mailto:fedora-desktop-list-admin at redhat.com]On Behalf Of Galdes, Andrew (ERHS) Sent: ter?a-feira, 2 de mar?o de 2004 20:41 To: fedora-desktop-list at redhat.com Subject: RE: SIS Laptop (sis7012) Hello Fred, I have tried that driver/modue before without luck. Although i will try it again. the model of the laptop is hard becuase its a re-badge. It is labled Notebook (which is not much help). It uses the sis650 graphics set and 7012 sound set. Thanks for the advice, i wi try that module again and see how i go I will report back with the error. AG. -----Original Message----- From: Fred Ramos [mailto:fred at sysgen.com.br] Sent: Tuesday, 2 March 2004 3:55 PM To: fedora-desktop-list at redhat.com; galdes.andrew at saugov.sa.gov.au Subject: Re: SIS Laptop (sis7012) Andrew, It would help to know the exact model of your Notebook. I have one Desknote from ECS that uses that chip and , although no sound when leaving it with the default driver, it works ok with the Intel810 Audio. Try it. Haven?t done it with Fedora yet, but that was the case in Mandrake and Red Hat, so I figure it is a common glitch. Good luck fedora-desktop-list at redhat.com wrote: > Hello All, > > Long time Linux user but I'm having trouble with SIS7012 audio chipset on my > laptop. I have played around with modules and various sound config tools but > having trouble still. No audio at all (it has worked previously with > 'alternative' operating systems. > > I would like to hear from anyone with experience with this chipset. Cheers. > > AG. > > > -- > Fedora-desktop-list mailing list > Fedora-desktop-list at redhat.com > http://www.redhat.com/mailman/listinfo/fedora-desktop-list > > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From stevelist at silverorange.com Tue Mar 9 04:19:23 2004 From: stevelist at silverorange.com (Steven Garrity) Date: Tue, 09 Mar 2004 00:19:23 -0400 Subject: New "Computer" Desktop Icon Style Message-ID: <404D45CB.9090803@silverorange.com> I see that there is now a new desktop icon for the "Computer". I was wondering why this icon is a straight-on perspective and not the standard bluecurve perspective LCD-monitor computer icon (the one seen in the graphical boot and in the System Settings icon. Steven Garrity From garrett at redhat.com Tue Mar 9 13:24:30 2004 From: garrett at redhat.com (Garrett LeSage) Date: Tue, 9 Mar 2004 08:24:30 -0500 Subject: New "Computer" Desktop Icon Style In-Reply-To: <404D45CB.9090803@silverorange.com> References: <404D45CB.9090803@silverorange.com> Message-ID: <18AB8B6C-71CD-11D8-8DD4-000A95B35672@redhat.com> On Mar 8, 2004, at 11:19 PM, Steven Garrity wrote: > I see that there is now a new desktop icon for the "Computer". I was > wondering why this icon is a straight-on perspective and not the > standard bluecurve perspective LCD-monitor computer icon (the one seen > in the graphical boot and in the System Settings icon. It is a new feature from upstream GNOME, and is inheriting the default GNOME icon. https://bugzilla.redhat.com/bugzilla/show_bug.cgi?id=117086 I have an icon ready for it, but I just need to know what to call it. Garrett From garrett at redhat.com Tue Mar 9 13:37:03 2004 From: garrett at redhat.com (Garrett LeSage) Date: Tue, 9 Mar 2004 08:37:03 -0500 Subject: New "Computer" Desktop Icon Style In-Reply-To: <404D45CB.9090803@silverorange.com> References: <404D45CB.9090803@silverorange.com> Message-ID: On Mar 8, 2004, at 11:19 PM, Steven Garrity wrote: > I see that there is now a new desktop icon for the "Computer". I was > wondering why this icon is a straight-on perspective and not the > standard bluecurve perspective LCD-monitor computer icon (the one seen > in the graphical boot and in the System Settings icon. It is a new feature from upstream GNOME, and is inheriting the default GNOME icon. https://bugzilla.redhat.com/bugzilla/show_bug.cgi?id=117086 I have an icon ready for it, but I just need to know what to call it. Garrett From garrett at redhat.com Tue Mar 9 16:07:07 2004 From: garrett at redhat.com (Garrett LeSage) Date: Tue, 9 Mar 2004 11:07:07 -0500 Subject: Bluecurve icons for OpenOffice.org Message-ID: You can view a basic set of icons for OOo Writer at: http://people.redhat.com/~glesage/ooo_icons/ There are many icons for OpenOffice.org (understatement of the year), so this is just a start. We're planning on hitting the most visible ones first and then will work our way through the others. Garrett LeSage Art Director, Red Hat From stevelist at silverorange.com Tue Mar 9 17:57:07 2004 From: stevelist at silverorange.com (Steven Garrity) Date: Tue, 09 Mar 2004 13:57:07 -0400 Subject: Bluecurve icons for OpenOffice.org In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <404E0573.2060901@silverorange.com> Let me (us) know if there is some subset that we can help you with. I'd be willing to take a shot at some of these (using your Bluecurve artwork you posted). Steven Garrity From linux at bytebot.net Wed Mar 10 01:31:28 2004 From: linux at bytebot.net (Colin Charles) Date: Wed, 10 Mar 2004 12:31:28 +1100 Subject: Bluecurve icons for OpenOffice.org In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <1078878488.25869.100.camel@hermione> On Wed, 2004-03-10 at 03:07, Garrett LeSage wrote: > You can view a basic set of icons for OOo Writer at: > http://people.redhat.com/~glesage/ooo_icons/ The Ximian icon set is already one in addition to what Sun releases. With a BlueCurve icon set, we really need that code to change icons :) Why isn't Dan just using the Ximian based icons? -- Colin Charles, byte at aeon.com.my http://www.bytebot.net/ http://training.bytebot.net/ - OpenOffice.org Training http://fedoranews.org/colin/fnu/ - Fedora News Updates From ready at rosa.com Wed Mar 10 09:43:51 2004 From: ready at rosa.com (Marky Goldstein) Date: Wed, 10 Mar 2004 10:43:51 +0100 Subject: Bluecurve icons for OpenOffice.org In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <404EE357.2060709@rosa.com> Garrett LeSage wrote: > You can view a basic set of icons for OOo Writer at: > http://people.redhat.com/~glesage/ooo_icons/ > > There are many icons for OpenOffice.org (understatement of the year), > so this is just a start. > > We're planning on hitting the most visible ones first and then will > work our way through the others. > > Garrett LeSage > Art Director, Red Hat > > Dear Garett, This is not meant to be negative, but feedback. I think the general look should be a bit smoother and more polished and more elegant. The icons look a bit like there is not enough time spent on them... Get the guy who gives you the budget to have more designers sit down and choose the best. Be a director ;->. Greets, Marky Goldstein From garrett at redhat.com Wed Mar 10 13:45:50 2004 From: garrett at redhat.com (Garrett LeSage) Date: Wed, 10 Mar 2004 08:45:50 -0500 Subject: Bluecurve icons for OpenOffice.org In-Reply-To: <404EE357.2060709@rosa.com> References: <404EE357.2060709@rosa.com> Message-ID: <3E39A2BF-7299-11D8-BE13-000A95B35672@redhat.com> On Mar 10, 2004, at 4:43 AM, Marky Goldstein wrote: > Dear Garett, > > This is not meant to be negative, but feedback. > > I think the general look should be a bit smoother > and more polished and more elegant. The icons look > a bit like there is not enough time spent on them... > Get the guy who gives you the budget to have more > designers sit down and choose the best. Be a director ;->. Marky, in an ideal world, it would be nice to have unlimited resources, time, and people to help out with icons. In the real world, there are around 5,000 icons (and growing) to keep track of and I'm the only one in the company to do it, so it's a daunting task. Icon work is only part of what I do too. When I was working through different styles nearly two years ago, I bounced it around with several people at the company, and our icon theme is based off of the style I presented that people liked the most, along with revisions over time. Please also understand that no matter what style anyone comes up with, there will always be at least a few people who would prefer something else. Liking something from an aesthetic point of view is subject to opinion, and opinions vary. A very large number of people throughout the years have expressed that they really like the icon style. You are among one of the few who has said anything otherwise. Of course, you are entitled to your opinion. I try to do the best with the resources and direction given and work hard doing it. Thanks, Garrett From dawson at fnal.gov Wed Mar 10 14:23:22 2004 From: dawson at fnal.gov (Troy Dawson) Date: Wed, 10 Mar 2004 08:23:22 -0600 Subject: Bluecurve icons for OpenOffice.org In-Reply-To: <3E39A2BF-7299-11D8-BE13-000A95B35672@redhat.com> References: <404EE357.2060709@rosa.com> <3E39A2BF-7299-11D8-BE13-000A95B35672@redhat.com> Message-ID: <404F24DA.7070506@fnal.gov> Garrett LeSage wrote: > > On Mar 10, 2004, at 4:43 AM, Marky Goldstein wrote: > >> Dear Garett, >> >> This is not meant to be negative, but feedback. >> >> I think the general look should be a bit smoother >> and more polished and more elegant. The icons look >> a bit like there is not enough time spent on them... >> Get the guy who gives you the budget to have more >> designers sit down and choose the best. Be a director ;->. > > > > Marky, in an ideal world, it would be nice to have unlimited resources, > time, and people to help out with icons. In the real world, there are > around 5,000 icons (and growing) to keep track of and I'm the only one > in the company to do it, so it's a daunting task. Icon work is only > part of what I do too. > > When I was working through different styles nearly two years ago, I > bounced it around with several people at the company, and our icon theme > is based off of the style I presented that people liked the most, along > with revisions over time. > > Please also understand that no matter what style anyone comes up with, > there will always be at least a few people who would prefer something > else. Liking something from an aesthetic point of view is subject to > opinion, and opinions vary. A very large number of people throughout > the years have expressed that they really like the icon style. You are > among one of the few who has said anything otherwise. Of course, you > are entitled to your opinion. > > I try to do the best with the resources and direction given and work > hard doing it. > > Thanks, > Garrett > > Wow, that was a very diplomatic answer. :) Just so you know, I, and the vast majority of my users, really like your icons, and having them in the OpenOffice package will really help the continuity. So I have to say, your icons for OO look really good so far. Now jumping to the other side of the fence (and you've probrubly already thought of this). It's always good to have an icon/theme change about every 3 or 4 years. It keeps the product looking fresh. I would make plans to start the process next year. If you don't start plans now, then by next year it will take all year to get the ball rolling. Once again, I think your icon/theme sets are very good and I like them, I'm just saying that because no matter how good an icon set it, eventually it get's stale. Troy Dawson -- __________________________________________________ Troy Dawson dawson at fnal.gov (630)840-6468 Fermilab ComputingDivision/CSS CSI Group __________________________________________________ From ready at rosa.com Wed Mar 10 14:30:13 2004 From: ready at rosa.com (Marky Goldstein) Date: Wed, 10 Mar 2004 15:30:13 +0100 Subject: Bluecurve icons for OpenOffice.org In-Reply-To: <404F24DA.7070506@fnal.gov> References: <404EE357.2060709@rosa.com> <3E39A2BF-7299-11D8-BE13-000A95B35672@redhat.com> <404F24DA.7070506@fnal.gov> Message-ID: <404F2675.90905@rosa.com> Hi Garrett, I understand, no problem. Anyway, by the way... opinions can be measured... setup a database of those 5000 icons and get a voting system up and running ;-> it is competition that make improvements go faster... Anyway, I would be interested how these 5000 icons and images are categorised... how would you categorise those 5000 icons? Best regards, Marky PS: Actually I do not understand that RedHat is not giving our lead gfx designer more people to do the job. Come on RedHat, we are paying for your subscription services... and I would like to get a real nice desktop edition... shall we put up the money on fedora? Troy Dawson wrote: > Garrett LeSage wrote: > >> >> On Mar 10, 2004, at 4:43 AM, Marky Goldstein wrote: >> >>> Dear Garett, >>> >>> This is not meant to be negative, but feedback. >>> >>> I think the general look should be a bit smoother >>> and more polished and more elegant. The icons look >>> a bit like there is not enough time spent on them... >>> Get the guy who gives you the budget to have more >>> designers sit down and choose the best. Be a director ;->. >> >> >> >> >> Marky, in an ideal world, it would be nice to have unlimited >> resources, time, and people to help out with icons. In the real >> world, there are around 5,000 icons (and growing) to keep track of >> and I'm the only one in the company to do it, so it's a daunting >> task. Icon work is only part of what I do too. >> >> When I was working through different styles nearly two years ago, I >> bounced it around with several people at the company, and our icon >> theme is based off of the style I presented that people liked the >> most, along with revisions over time. >> >> Please also understand that no matter what style anyone comes up >> with, there will always be at least a few people who would prefer >> something else. Liking something from an aesthetic point of view is >> subject to opinion, and opinions vary. A very large number of people >> throughout the years have expressed that they really like the icon >> style. You are among one of the few who has said anything >> otherwise. Of course, you are entitled to your opinion. >> >> I try to do the best with the resources and direction given and work >> hard doing it. >> >> Thanks, >> Garrett >> >> > Wow, that was a very diplomatic answer. :) > Just so you know, I, and the vast majority of my users, really like > your icons, and having them in the OpenOffice package will really help > the continuity. So I have to say, your icons for OO look really good > so far. > > Now jumping to the other side of the fence (and you've probrubly > already thought of this). It's always good to have an icon/theme > change about every 3 or 4 years. It keeps the product looking fresh. > I would make plans to start the process next year. If you don't start > plans now, then by next year it will take all year to get the ball > rolling. > > Once again, I think your icon/theme sets are very good and I like > them, I'm just saying that because no matter how good an icon set it, > eventually it get's stale. > > Troy Dawson From Julian.Daich at oridion.com Wed Mar 10 16:47:05 2004 From: Julian.Daich at oridion.com (Julian Daich) Date: Wed, 10 Mar 2004 18:47:05 +0200 Subject: Hardware configuration Message-ID: An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From leonard at den.ottolander.nl Wed Mar 10 16:59:03 2004 From: leonard at den.ottolander.nl (Leonard den Ottolander) Date: Wed, 10 Mar 2004 17:59:03 +0100 Subject: Hardware configuration In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <1078937943.4753.171.camel@athlon.localdomain> Hello Julian, > What are the minimal hardware requirements to install Fedora in a X86 > system? This list is for discussion on desktop development. Please use the fedora-list for general questions. And be so kind not to post in html. Leonard. -- mount -t life -o ro /dev/dna /genetic/research From garrett at redhat.com Wed Mar 10 17:25:34 2004 From: garrett at redhat.com (Garrett LeSage) Date: Wed, 10 Mar 2004 12:25:34 -0500 Subject: Bluecurve icons for OpenOffice.org In-Reply-To: <404E0573.2060901@silverorange.com> References: <404E0573.2060901@silverorange.com> Message-ID: On Mar 9, 2004, at 12:57 PM, Steven Garrity wrote: > Let me (us) know if there is some subset that we can help you with. > I'd be willing to take a shot at some of these (using your Bluecurve > artwork you posted). That'll be great. Thanks for the offer. I should be getting some digestible chunks of icons to-do from Dan again today or tomorrow. Garrett From v2ikematu at hot.ee Thu Mar 11 20:05:37 2004 From: v2ikematu at hot.ee (=?iso-8859-1?Q?V=E4ike-Matu?=) Date: Thu, 11 Mar 2004 22:05:37 +0200 Subject: Fedora-desktop-list -- confirmation of subscription -- request 155037 References: <20040311181612.19485.52330.Mailman@listman.back-rdu.redhat.com> Message-ID: <000c01c407a4$390cfd00$0100a8c0@THOUGHBRED> ----- Original Message ----- From: To: Sent: Thursday, March 11, 2004 8:16 PM Subject: Fedora-desktop-list -- confirmation of subscription -- request 155037 > Fedora-desktop-list -- confirmation of subscription -- request 155037 > > We have received a request for subscription of your email address, > , to the fedora-desktop-list at redhat.com mailing > list. To confirm the request, please send a message to > fedora-desktop-list-request at redhat.com, and either: > > - maintain the subject line as is (the reply's additional "Re:" is > ok), > > - or include the following line - and only the following line - in the > message body: > > confirm 155037 > > (Simply sending a 'reply' to this message should work from most email > interfaces, since that usually leaves the subject line in the right > form.) > > If you do not wish to subscribe to this list, please simply disregard > this message. Send questions to fedora-desktop-list-admin at redhat.com. From hp at redhat.com Thu Mar 11 22:59:55 2004 From: hp at redhat.com (Havoc Pennington) Date: Thu, 11 Mar 2004 17:59:55 -0500 Subject: Bluecurve icons for OpenOffice.org In-Reply-To: <404F2675.90905@rosa.com> References: <404EE357.2060709@rosa.com> <3E39A2BF-7299-11D8-BE13-000A95B35672@redhat.com> <404F24DA.7070506@fnal.gov> <404F2675.90905@rosa.com> Message-ID: <1079045995.3141.194.camel@localhost.localdomain> On Wed, 2004-03-10 at 09:30, Marky Goldstein wrote: > PS: Actually I do not understand that RedHat is not giving > our lead gfx designer more people to do the job. Come on > RedHat, we are paying for your subscription services... and > I would like to get a real nice desktop edition... shall we put > up the money on fedora? Matter of fact, there's a graphic artist position in the works - send me resume and a link to portfolio. Position is in Westford, MA. Havoc From stevelist at silverorange.com Thu Mar 11 23:18:32 2004 From: stevelist at silverorange.com (Steven Garrity) Date: Thu, 11 Mar 2004 19:18:32 -0400 Subject: Bluecurve icons for OpenOffice.org In-Reply-To: <1079045995.3141.194.camel@localhost.localdomain> References: <404EE357.2060709@rosa.com> <3E39A2BF-7299-11D8-BE13-000A95B35672@redhat.com> <404F24DA.7070506@fnal.gov> <404F2675.90905@rosa.com> <1079045995.3141.194.camel@localhost.localdomain> Message-ID: <4050F3C8.3020504@silverorange.com> Havoc Pennington wrote: > Matter of fact, there's a graphic artist position in the works - send me > resume and a link to portfolio. Position is in Westford, MA. If there will be a page describing the position, please post the URL when it's up. I have a new people I'd like to lean on to apply. Thanks, Steven Garrity From doogle1b1 at netzero.net Fri Mar 12 04:16:40 2004 From: doogle1b1 at netzero.net (Doogle1b1) Date: Thu, 11 Mar 2004 23:16:40 -0500 Subject: Fedora-desktop-list -- confirmation of subscription -- request 155037 References: <20040311181612.19485.52330.Mailman@listman.back-rdu.redhat.com> <000c01c407a4$390cfd00$0100a8c0@THOUGHBRED> Message-ID: <001501c407e8$d37083f0$0664a8c0@gully> ----- Original Message ----- From: "V?ike-Matu" To: Sent: Thursday, March 11, 2004 3:05 PM Subject: Re: Fedora-desktop-list -- confirmation of subscription -- request 155037 > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: > To: > Sent: Thursday, March 11, 2004 8:16 PM > Subject: Fedora-desktop-list -- confirmation of subscription -- request > 155037 > > > > Fedora-desktop-list -- confirmation of subscription -- request 155037 > > > > We have received a request for subscription of your email address, > > , to the fedora-desktop-list at redhat.com mailing > > list. To confirm the request, please send a message to > > fedora-desktop-list-request at redhat.com, and either: > > > > - maintain the subject line as is (the reply's additional "Re:" is > > ok), > > > > - or include the following line - and only the following line - in the > > message body: > > > > confirm 155037 > > > > (Simply sending a 'reply' to this message should work from most email > > interfaces, since that usually leaves the subject line in the right > > form.) > > > > If you do not wish to subscribe to this list, please simply disregard > > this message. Send questions to fedora-desktop-list-admin at redhat.com. > > > -- > Fedora-desktop-list mailing list > Fedora-desktop-list at redhat.com > http://www.redhat.com/mailman/listinfo/fedora-desktop-list > > From mlimburg at users.on.net Fri Mar 12 06:31:44 2004 From: mlimburg at users.on.net (Mark Limburg) Date: Fri, 12 Mar 2004 17:01:44 +1030 Subject: Alpha Transparencies Message-ID: <1079073104.5312.25.camel@localhost.localdomain> Quick question, Before I delve into design, is it possible to use alpha transparencies within PNG files within themes? TIA .mwl From ready at rosa.com Fri Mar 12 08:11:22 2004 From: ready at rosa.com (Marky Goldstein) Date: Fri, 12 Mar 2004 09:11:22 +0100 Subject: design process... In-Reply-To: <1079045995.3141.194.camel@localhost.localdomain> References: <404EE357.2060709@rosa.com> <3E39A2BF-7299-11D8-BE13-000A95B35672@redhat.com> <404F24DA.7070506@fnal.gov> <404F2675.90905@rosa.com> <1079045995.3141.194.camel@localhost.localdomain> Message-ID: <405170AA.5030200@rosa.com> get 10 agencies or designers. choose the best. set up a theme database. create themes per designer, agency, group.. let them produce the components/icons/etc. let the public vote and choose the default. outsource the work because internals need competition to learn how to run. think about it. linux needs a fundamental rethink of the way the design is done. it's the design that will make redhat successful or not. mac os x and windows 2005 is the challenge. nearly as good or the same is not good enough. greets, marky Havoc Pennington wrote: >On Wed, 2004-03-10 at 09:30, Marky Goldstein wrote: > > >>PS: Actually I do not understand that RedHat is not giving >>our lead gfx designer more people to do the job. Come on >>RedHat, we are paying for your subscription services... and >>I would like to get a real nice desktop edition... shall we put >>up the money on fedora? >> >> > >Matter of fact, there's a graphic artist position in the works - send me >resume and a link to portfolio. Position is in Westford, MA. > >Havoc > > > > > From jensknutson at yahoo.com Fri Mar 12 08:41:42 2004 From: jensknutson at yahoo.com (Jens Knutson) Date: Fri, 12 Mar 2004 02:41:42 -0600 Subject: design process... In-Reply-To: <405170AA.5030200@rosa.com> References: <404EE357.2060709@rosa.com> <3E39A2BF-7299-11D8-BE13-000A95B35672@redhat.com> <404F24DA.7070506@fnal.gov> <404F2675.90905@rosa.com> <1079045995.3141.194.camel@localhost.localdomain> <405170AA.5030200@rosa.com> Message-ID: <1079080902.13045.29.camel@zeus.dknutson.net> On Fri, 2004-03-12 at 02:11, Marky Goldstein wrote: > get 10 agencies or designers. choose the best. > set up a theme database. create themes per designer, > agency, group.. let them produce the components/icons/etc. > let the public vote and choose the default. > outsource the work because internals need competition > to learn how to run. think about it. Wow... I didn't think I'd get to use one of my new favorite Havoc quotes yet, but it's too fitting: "Linus isn't taking an opinion poll on patches and neither should interaction designers take an opinion poll on designs." Granted, he was referring to interaction design in that quote, not graphic design, but the principle still applies. Feedback from users is good, but letting the public decide on design issues through opinion polls is *not* a good idea. Besides, I don't think "themes" are that big of a problem for the Linux desktop right now. How about more and better graphical config tools (note: Webmin, while useful is not really a graphical tool) for various daemons like Postfix and Dovecot, or some hardcore UI reviewing on OpenOffice? Compared to those things, I think the themes part of the Linux desktop is doing just fine - Bluecurve looks great, and covers almost all of the desktop! If you don't like that, Ximian's Industrial is pretty slick, too. Granted, there can always be improvement, but I just don't think it's worth getting too worked up about or putting just a ton of sweat into - when CIOs evaluate the Linux desktop against Longhorn, I'm quite sure the "pretty" factor will come near the end of the evaluation list. Besides, Mr. Garrett has done a fine job, and I'm sure the person they hire for their new position will do great stuff, too! - jck -- "We act as though comfort and luxury were the chief requirements of life, when all that we need to make us happy is something to be enthusiastic about." -- Albert Einstein From julo at altern.org Fri Mar 12 08:54:19 2004 From: julo at altern.org (Julien Olivier) Date: Fri, 12 Mar 2004 08:54:19 +0000 Subject: Bluecurve icons for OpenOffice.org In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <1079081659.3361.7.camel@localhost.localdomain> On Tue, 2004-03-09 at 16:07, Garrett LeSage wrote: > You can view a basic set of icons for OOo Writer at: > http://people.redhat.com/~glesage/ooo_icons/ > > There are many icons for OpenOffice.org (understatement of the year), > so this is just a start. > > We're planning on hitting the most visible ones first and then will > work our way through the others. > > Garrett LeSage > Art Director, Red Hat Not a comment about the icons themselves but what is preventing OpenOffice from respacting fdo's icon theme spec ? It seems that there are at least 3 icon "themes" available for OpenOffice currently (from redhat, ximian and sun). Wouldn't it be worth hacking OpenOffice so that it can load its icons from the desktop's icon theme ? I think it would make life easier for icon designers. And the same thing for Moilla/Firefox would be perfect, even if Epiphany already respects fdo's icon theme (AFAIK). Just my 2 cents though... -- Julien Olivier From ready at rosa.com Fri Mar 12 09:17:13 2004 From: ready at rosa.com (Marky Goldstein) Date: Fri, 12 Mar 2004 10:17:13 +0100 Subject: Bluecurve icons for OpenOffice.org In-Reply-To: <1079081659.3361.7.camel@localhost.localdomain> References: <1079081659.3361.7.camel@localhost.localdomain> Message-ID: <40518019.3000702@rosa.com> Julien Olivier wrote: >On Tue, 2004-03-09 at 16:07, Garrett LeSage wrote: > > >>You can view a basic set of icons for OOo Writer at: >>http://people.redhat.com/~glesage/ooo_icons/ >> >>There are many icons for OpenOffice.org (understatement of the year), >>so this is just a start. >> >>We're planning on hitting the most visible ones first and then will >>work our way through the others. >> >>Garrett LeSage >>Art Director, Red Hat >> >> > >Not a comment about the icons themselves but what is preventing >OpenOffice from respacting fdo's icon theme spec ? It seems that there >are at least 3 icon "themes" available for OpenOffice currently (from >redhat, ximian and sun). Wouldn't it be worth hacking OpenOffice so that >it can load its icons from the desktop's icon theme ? I think it would >make life easier for icon designers. > >And the same thing for Moilla/Firefox would be perfect, even if Epiphany >already respects fdo's icon theme (AFAIK). > >Just my 2 cents though... > > > Good idea. A theme does not stop at the OS level, it goes into all applications and all icons for application in the Launcer bar, etc. M. From ready at rosa.com Fri Mar 12 09:22:48 2004 From: ready at rosa.com (Marky Goldstein) Date: Fri, 12 Mar 2004 10:22:48 +0100 Subject: Fedora-desktop-list -- confirmation of subscription -- request 155037 In-Reply-To: <001501c407e8$d37083f0$0664a8c0@gully> References: <20040311181612.19485.52330.Mailman@listman.back-rdu.redhat.com> <000c01c407a4$390cfd00$0100a8c0@THOUGHBRED> <001501c407e8$d37083f0$0664a8c0@gully> Message-ID: <40518168.6060808@rosa.com> I agree that a theme needs central control of one Art Director / Agency. One theme needs consistency. I don't agree that mutliple themes need central control. I agree that the desktop needs freedom of look. That will be revolutionary in the masses. I agree that functionality and look need to be in harmony. We need both. We need simplicity and enhancenced control. Simplicity means hiding enhanced control at first sight. A theme I would define as a set of components for OS, Applications, Launchers, etc. that define the look. Usually a theme has some kind of topic such as milk aqua wind nike microsoft apple mars business engineer glass nasa etc. Greets, M. From tony at tgds.net Fri Mar 12 09:41:56 2004 From: tony at tgds.net (Tony Grant) Date: Fri, 12 Mar 2004 10:41:56 +0100 Subject: Fedora-desktop-list -- themes In-Reply-To: <40518168.6060808@rosa.com> References: <20040311181612.19485.52330.Mailman@listman.back-rdu.redhat.com> <000c01c407a4$390cfd00$0100a8c0@THOUGHBRED> <001501c407e8$d37083f0$0664a8c0@gully> <40518168.6060808@rosa.com> Message-ID: <1079084516.10437.19.camel@localhost.localdomain> Le ven 12/03/2004 ? 10:22, Marky Goldstein a ?crit : > I agree that a theme needs central control of one > Art Director / Agency. One theme needs consistency. > > I don't agree that mutliple themes need central control. > > I agree that the desktop needs freedom of look. That will > be revolutionary in the masses. The theme should be consistent in OOo, Evolution, Mozilla. Or whatever other combination of applications needed for a productivity desktop. Menus should be consistent too... My desktops have been themed to imitate Mac OS for as long as I can remember for the simple reason that I have to switch back and forth between Linux and Mac OS quite often. Having similar looking desktops helps reduce confusion - thus increasing productivity. As far as I can see it is as simple as that. If you want to migrate a user from Mac OS or Windows to a Linux desktop then theme the desktop to be as close as possible to the OS version she is used to. Later they can be weened when the fear of change has gone. Cheers Tony Grant -- www.tgds.net Library management software toolkit From ready at rosa.com Fri Mar 12 09:57:43 2004 From: ready at rosa.com (Marky Goldstein) Date: Fri, 12 Mar 2004 10:57:43 +0100 Subject: Fedora-desktop-list -- themes In-Reply-To: <1079084516.10437.19.camel@localhost.localdomain> References: <20040311181612.19485.52330.Mailman@listman.back-rdu.redhat.com> <000c01c407a4$390cfd00$0100a8c0@THOUGHBRED> <001501c407e8$d37083f0$0664a8c0@gully> <40518168.6060808@rosa.com> <1079084516.10437.19.camel@localhost.localdomain> Message-ID: <40518997.7050407@rosa.com> Tony Grant wrote: >Le ven 12/03/2004 ? 10:22, Marky Goldstein a ?crit : > > >>I agree that a theme needs central control of one >>Art Director / Agency. One theme needs consistency. >> >>I don't agree that mutliple themes need central control. >> >>I agree that the desktop needs freedom of look. That will >>be revolutionary in the masses. >> >> > >The theme should be consistent in OOo, Evolution, Mozilla. Or whatever >other combination of applications needed for a productivity desktop. > >Menus should be consistent too... > >My desktops have been themed to imitate Mac OS for as long as I can >remember for the simple reason that I have to switch back and forth >between Linux and Mac OS quite often. Having similar looking desktops >helps reduce confusion - thus increasing productivity. > >As far as I can see it is as simple as that. If you want to migrate a >user from Mac OS or Windows to a Linux desktop then theme the desktop to >be as close as possible to the OS version she is used to. Later they can >be weened when the fear of change has gone. > >Cheers >Tony Grant > > > I fully agree with this strategy!!! Unfortunately the existing Win XP and Mac OS X themes are not yet very similiar.. there is still a gap. We should get people to switch by imitating and then we should get Nike to invest in Nike themes (to get some money into the scene) and build our own themes as we like (I personaly like stuff like milk, keramics, etc.) ;-> M. From ecroft at openratings.com Fri Mar 12 12:35:39 2004 From: ecroft at openratings.com (Edward Croft) Date: Fri, 12 Mar 2004 07:35:39 -0500 Subject: Bluecurve icons for OpenOffice.org In-Reply-To: <1079045995.3141.194.camel@localhost.localdomain> References: <404EE357.2060709@rosa.com> <3E39A2BF-7299-11D8-BE13-000A95B35672@redhat.com> <404F24DA.7070506@fnal.gov> <404F2675.90905@rosa.com> <1079045995.3141.194.camel@localhost.localdomain> Message-ID: <1079094939.13247.2.camel@ecroft.hq.openratings.com> On Thu, 2004-03-11 at 17:59, Havoc Pennington wrote: > On Wed, 2004-03-10 at 09:30, Marky Goldstein wrote: > > PS: Actually I do not understand that RedHat is not giving > > our lead gfx designer more people to do the job. Come on > > RedHat, we are paying for your subscription services... and > > I would like to get a real nice desktop edition... shall we put > > up the money on fedora? > > Matter of fact, there's a graphic artist position in the works - send me > resume and a link to portfolio. Position is in Westford, MA. > > Havoc Just curious Havoc, Red Hat has an office in Westford? I know that Novell moved headquarters to Waltham. I had been to the Red Hat office at Triangle Park in '99. Though I heard they moved from there. Where is Ximian's office? -- Edward M. Croft Sr. Systems Engineer Open Ratings, Inc. 200 West Street Waltham, MA 02451-1121 From notting at redhat.com Fri Mar 12 17:19:26 2004 From: notting at redhat.com (Bill Nottingham) Date: Fri, 12 Mar 2004 12:19:26 -0500 Subject: Bluecurve icons for OpenOffice.org In-Reply-To: <1079094939.13247.2.camel@ecroft.hq.openratings.com> References: <404EE357.2060709@rosa.com> <3E39A2BF-7299-11D8-BE13-000A95B35672@redhat.com> <404F24DA.7070506@fnal.gov> <404F2675.90905@rosa.com> <1079045995.3141.194.camel@localhost.localdomain> <1079094939.13247.2.camel@ecroft.hq.openratings.com> Message-ID: <20040312171926.GE4910@devserv.devel.redhat.com> Edward Croft (ecroft at openratings.com) said: > Just curious Havoc, Red Hat has an office in Westford? http://www.redhat.com/about/corporate/wwoffices/americas.html For more information than you probably want. :) Bill From link at subpop.net Fri Mar 12 18:25:39 2004 From: link at subpop.net (Link Dupont) Date: Fri, 12 Mar 2004 10:25:39 -0800 Subject: Bluecurve icons for OpenOffice.org In-Reply-To: <1079094939.13247.2.camel@ecroft.hq.openratings.com> References: <404EE357.2060709@rosa.com> <3E39A2BF-7299-11D8-BE13-000A95B35672@redhat.com> <404F24DA.7070506@fnal.gov> <404F2675.90905@rosa.com> <1079045995.3141.194.camel@localhost.localdomain> <1079094939.13247.2.camel@ecroft.hq.openratings.com> Message-ID: <1079115939.9762.15.camel@blue> On Fri, 2004-03-12 at 04:35, Edward Croft wrote: > On Thu, 2004-03-11 at 17:59, Havoc Pennington wrote: > > On Wed, 2004-03-10 at 09:30, Marky Goldstein wrote: > > > PS: Actually I do not understand that RedHat is not giving > > > our lead gfx designer more people to do the job. Come on > > > RedHat, we are paying for your subscription services... and > > > I would like to get a real nice desktop edition... shall we put > > > up the money on fedora? > > > > Matter of fact, there's a graphic artist position in the works - send me > > resume and a link to portfolio. Position is in Westford, MA. > > > > Havoc > > Just curious Havoc, Red Hat has an office in Westford? I know that > Novell moved headquarters to Waltham. I had been to the Red Hat office > at Triangle Park in '99. Though I heard they moved from there. Where is > Ximian's office? Ximian's in Boston. > -- > Edward M. Croft > Sr. Systems Engineer > Open Ratings, Inc. > 200 West Street > Waltham, MA 02451-1121 -- Link Dupont From linux at bytebot.net Sat Mar 13 16:36:04 2004 From: linux at bytebot.net (Colin Charles) Date: Sun, 14 Mar 2004 03:36:04 +1100 Subject: Bluecurve icons for OpenOffice.org In-Reply-To: <1079081659.3361.7.camel@localhost.localdomain> References: <1079081659.3361.7.camel@localhost.localdomain> Message-ID: <1079195764.31185.423.camel@hermione> On Fri, 2004-03-12 at 19:54, Julien Olivier wrote: > Not a comment about the icons themselves but what is preventing > OpenOffice from respacting fdo's icon theme spec ? It seems that there > are at least 3 icon "themes" available for OpenOffice currently (from > redhat, ximian and sun). Wouldn't it be worth hacking OpenOffice so that > it can load its icons from the desktop's icon theme ? I think it would > make life easier for icon designers. There's work being done to use the GTK framework, so this native icon thing will probably be in place real soon now. > And the same thing for Moilla/Firefox would be perfect, even if Epiphany > already respects fdo's icon theme (AFAIK). Mozilla already supports this (or is that Firefox?). Read Blizzard's blog about this a couple of days ago, from fedora people's site. -- Colin Charles, byte at aeon.com.my http://www.bytebot.net/ http://training.bytebot.net/ - OpenOffice.org Training http://fedoranews.org/colin/fnu/ - Fedora News Updates From rick at panix.com Tue Mar 16 14:44:27 2004 From: rick at panix.com (Rick Ace) Date: Tue, 16 Mar 2004 09:44:27 -0500 (EST) Subject: Paring Down the Screensavers - RFC Message-ID: <21024.24.185.214.240.1079448267.squirrel@mail.panix.com> > Next, the "Kill" list - these ones seemed unprofessional or just plain > wacky enough to drop alltogether: > > bsod > braid > pedal > bouncingcow Hi all and thanks to Red Hat for keeping the dialogue open with its customers. I am a happy customer of Enterprise WS. If I may argue for keeping 'bouncingcow': I am a 49-year-old guy who has made a career in software engineering. I've worked for some big names (Pixar and DEC to name two), and feel confident that I am qualified to offer an expert opinion on what is professional in our industry. With due respect to Steven Garrity, and without claiming that my opinion carries anymore weight than his or that of any other expert, I judge the bouncing cow to be professional. Now regarding 'wacky': I share the characterization that the bouncing cow is wacky. However, I don't agree that said characterization is per se grounds for dropping a screensaver. Without opening a debate on 'good wacky' versus 'bad wacky', I will say only that when others have walked by my computer and took note of the cow bouncing away on the monitor, they have without exception shown appreciation for it. My simple point here is that the cow is well liked out here in this corner of customerland :-) And for the final prong of my argument, I offer a resounding "me too!" in response to Ethan Zimmerman's posting: Nooo! Don't take away my bouncing cow! Thank you, and moooo Rick Ace From tony at tgds.net Tue Mar 16 14:57:06 2004 From: tony at tgds.net (Tony Grant) Date: Tue, 16 Mar 2004 15:57:06 +0100 Subject: Paring Down the Screensavers - RFC In-Reply-To: <21024.24.185.214.240.1079448267.squirrel@mail.panix.com> References: <21024.24.185.214.240.1079448267.squirrel@mail.panix.com> Message-ID: <1079449026.21325.66.camel@localhost.localdomain> Le mar 16/03/2004 ? 15:44, Rick Ace a ?crit : > > Next, the "Kill" list - these ones seemed unprofessional or just plain > > wacky enough to drop alltogether: > > > > bsod bsod is an integral part of my working day! It never fails to draw a "Oh! Something is wrong with your machine" from the casual passer-by. At which point I can move the mouse and then explain that Linux never crashes and that I am immune from virii etc. etc. Then they say "but that is not Linux it is Mac OS" at which point I get to explain themes... What would life be without bsod! and aquaOS Life needs more "unprofessional" and "wacky" - hey guys get a life!!! Laugh a little and work would seem, well, almost fun! Cheez yanks and their "work till you die" mentality... I actually enjoy Linux and work and am proud to say I do. Tony Grant -- www.tgds.net Library management software toolkit From tduvally at Brown.edu Tue Mar 16 15:38:28 2004 From: tduvally at Brown.edu (Thomas DuVally) Date: Tue, 16 Mar 2004 10:38:28 -0500 Subject: Paring Down the Screensavers - RFC Message-ID: <1079451508.6361.7.camel@croithine.cis.brown.edu> Why get rid of any? Please forgive me if this has been mentioned before, but I don't think it has. If the issue is clutter and too many choices, then KDE seemed to come up with a solution: categories. If you haven't seem it, they are organized like folders that drop open the list of savers. Categories are named things like "Fractals", "OpenGL Screen Savers" and "Flying Things". I agree there are a lot, but I can't say I wouldn't miss a single one. -- TJ DuVally GPG fingerprint = FB59 8265 0865 0CB8 94B5 FC26 F573 F09C 15F2 33F6 http://www.gnupg.org - 'Cause e-mail has no envelope. -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: signature.asc Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 197 bytes Desc: This is a digitally signed message part URL: From ecroft at openratings.com Tue Mar 16 15:57:24 2004 From: ecroft at openratings.com (Edward Croft) Date: Tue, 16 Mar 2004 10:57:24 -0500 Subject: Paring Down the Screensavers - RFC In-Reply-To: <1079449026.21325.66.camel@localhost.localdomain> References: <21024.24.185.214.240.1079448267.squirrel@mail.panix.com> <1079449026.21325.66.camel@localhost.localdomain> Message-ID: <1079452643.31867.17.camel@ecroft.hq.openratings.com> On Tue, 2004-03-16 at 09:57, Tony Grant wrote: > Life needs more "unprofessional" and "wacky" - hey guys get a life!!! > Laugh a little and work would seem, well, almost fun! > > Cheez yanks and their "work till you die" mentality... I actually enjoy > Linux and work and am proud to say I do. > > Tony Grant I agree here, we need to have some things to keep things light. I used to have webshots on my Windows PCs. They had a whole collection of backgrounds and their software could be used as a screensaver. Unfortunately, they don't do Linux. I also used to like MS Themes. Some of the themes you could download off the web personalized your workstation. We are not robots, we are individuals. I am not just another brick in the wall. And as to work till you die, unfortunately, that is because employers in the US treat employees as commodities with few exceptions. If you don't put in the time, then you may not be working. It is more survival mentality. Fortunately for me, I work for a company now that gives you a little more flex time. My last company, you had to work two years before getting one weeks vacation and only four holidays a year. One of which was Easter and you had that day off anyway. Plus you worked ten hour days and were on call 24/7. Glad to be out of there. Ed. From Sigmascape1 at cs.com Tue Mar 16 17:10:05 2004 From: Sigmascape1 at cs.com (Sigmascape1 at cs.com) Date: Tue, 16 Mar 2004 12:10:05 -0500 Subject: PyGtk2 Usage Message-ID: <1D72ECE2.0457C55B.3F8EDD3A@cs.com> Hi, Over time will PyGtk2 to develop the user interface or will some other tool(s) be used? Some of the Fedora artwork I have seen has been pretty cool. Thanks!!! Mitch Featherston From stewart at flamingspork.com Wed Mar 17 09:01:27 2004 From: stewart at flamingspork.com (Stewart Smith) Date: Wed, 17 Mar 2004 20:01:27 +1100 Subject: Paring Down the Screensavers - RFC In-Reply-To: <21024.24.185.214.240.1079448267.squirrel@mail.panix.com> References: <21024.24.185.214.240.1079448267.squirrel@mail.panix.com> Message-ID: <1079514086.2818.21.camel@willster> On Wed, 2004-03-17 at 01:44, Rick Ace wrote: > > Next, the "Kill" list - these ones seemed unprofessional or just plain > > wacky enough to drop alltogether: Something like bsod is actually *confusing* for new users, so having it disabled by default is probably a good thing. but having them there as an option would be nice for those newly converted sysadmins with a healthy sense of humor :) -- Stewart Smith (stewart at flamingspork.com) http://www.flamingspork.com/ -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: signature.asc Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 189 bytes Desc: This is a digitally signed message part URL: From garrett at redhat.com Thu Mar 25 20:53:44 2004 From: garrett at redhat.com (Garrett LeSage) Date: Thu, 25 Mar 2004 15:53:44 -0500 Subject: OOo icon update Message-ID: <814B564A-7E9E-11D8-99BB-0003938747F0@redhat.com> I've updated the OOo icons work-in-progress. You can see what's currently done (minus the set I'm working on at the moment) at: http://people.redhat.com/glesage/ooo_icons/ Garrett From garrett at redhat.com Thu Mar 25 21:09:56 2004 From: garrett at redhat.com (Garrett LeSage) Date: Thu, 25 Mar 2004 16:09:56 -0500 Subject: beginnings of a Firefox theme Message-ID: Hi all, I've sync'd my Fedora artwork to the usual place on people.redhat.com, and I have included the large and small templates for the firebird toolbar icon sheets. They're located (along with the new OOo icons, fwiw) at: http://people.redhat.com/glesage/artwork/Fedora/fedoracore2/icons/ I began to make a Firefox theme based off of these sheets; you can see PNG versions here: http://people.redhat.com/glesage/artwork/firefox/ There's more that needs to be done, but it's a start. Let me know if any of you are interested in helping make a complete, official Firefox Bluecurve theme. Garrett From stevelist at silverorange.com Thu Mar 25 22:16:04 2004 From: stevelist at silverorange.com (Steven Garrity) Date: Thu, 25 Mar 2004 18:16:04 -0400 Subject: beginnings of a Firefox theme In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <40635A24.4020604@silverorange.com> Looks good. Here's a list of icons/graphics included in the Firefox themes. It's a good checklist to work from. * Primary toolbar: (16px/24px - default/disabled/hover) o Back o Forward o Stop o Refresh o Home o Downloads o History o Bookmarks o Print o New Tab o New Window o Cut o Copy o Paste o Mail o Go * Activity Monitor (throbber 16px/24px - animated/stopped) * Bookmarks Manager toolbar: (24px - default/disabled/hover) o New Bookmark o New Folder o New Separator o Move o Properties o Rename o Delete o 16px Page (bookmarks) - default/disabled o 16px Folder (bookmarks) - default/disabled * Options (24px): o General o Privacy o Web Features o Downloads o Themes o Extensions o Advanced * Download Manager: o Background o "Clean Up" button (16px - default/disabled) o "Options" button (16px) * Misc: o Close Tab o Info o Page-Themes o Search-bar o Secure (lock) o Security-broken (unlocked) * Page-Setup: o Landscape o Portrait * Theme Preview image Steven Garrity Garrett LeSage wrote: > Hi all, > > I've sync'd my Fedora artwork to the usual place on people.redhat.com, > and I have included the large and small templates for the firebird > toolbar icon sheets. > > They're located (along with the new OOo icons, fwiw) at: > http://people.redhat.com/glesage/artwork/Fedora/fedoracore2/icons/ > > I began to make a Firefox theme based off of these sheets; you can see > PNG versions here: > http://people.redhat.com/glesage/artwork/firefox/ > > There's more that needs to be done, but it's a start. > > Let me know if any of you are interested in helping make a complete, > official Firefox Bluecurve theme. > > Garrett > > From beartooth at adelphia.net Sun Mar 28 17:16:52 2004 From: beartooth at adelphia.net (Bear Tooth) Date: Sun, 28 Mar 2004 12:16:52 -0500 Subject: Is SELinux for curmudgeonly codgers? Message-ID: I picked up an info tidbit lately (one one of these lists, I think), to the effect that the next Fedora release will have SELinux; so, being as I am paranoid on principle in my electronic ignorance, I'm trying to read more than I can follow at http://www.nsa.gov/selinux -- especially since I liked what I saw of Fedora, and would probably still be using it if it had had a line in the GUI display config for my new flat panel monitor (as, I hope & trust, it's apt to ere long). Given that I live behind a hardware router as well as RedHat's medium level of security -- and normally turn the cable modem off at night, as well as shutting everything down when out of town, and updating every few days when in town, or at once on receipt of any security notice from RedHat -- does SELinux look like being more of a boon or a hassle? If not, I should be looking at caosity and mandrake, to have an alternative when I cease to be safe (or able at all!) to run RH9 ... -- Beartooth Autodidact antiquated sclerotic sub-technoid, trying to learn linux Keep in mind that I know little of what I'm talking about. From michaelfivis at verizon.net Sun Mar 28 22:42:56 2004 From: michaelfivis at verizon.net (michael fivis) Date: Sun, 28 Mar 2004 17:42:56 -0500 Subject: Is SELinux for curmudgeonly codgers? In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <406754F0.9090105@verizon.net> What flat panel do you have that Xfree does not support? And did you kill someone? From beartooth at adelphia.net Sun Mar 28 23:34:08 2004 From: beartooth at adelphia.net (Bear Tooth) Date: Sun, 28 Mar 2004 18:34:08 -0500 Subject: Is SELinux for curmudgeonly codgers? References: <406754F0.9090105@verizon.net> Message-ID: On Sun, 28 Mar 2004 17:42:56 -0500, michael fivis wrote: > What flat panel do you have that Xfree does not support? BenQ FP767 > And did you kill someone? -- that I should be paranoid, you mean? Far from it; I just don't know enough to know how to protect myself intelligently -- so I take all the precautions I can understand, in order at least not to be an easy target.,. -- Beartooth Autodidact antiquated sclerotic sub-technoid, trying to learn linux Keep in mind that I know little of what I'm talking about. From hejpelle at telia.com Mon Mar 29 11:51:33 2004 From: hejpelle at telia.com (Pelle Beckman) Date: Mon, 29 Mar 2004 13:51:33 +0200 Subject: Start contributing Message-ID: <40680DC5.8010007@telia.com> Hi all, I've been following the Fedora Project for some months now and feel I could contribute with some help in graphics design/illustration/etc. Where do I start? I've made some changes to the startup-screen ("rhgb" - right?)that I would like to see - should I post them somewhere to get opinions? And more importantly, what needs to be done? regards, Pelle B. hejpelle at telia.com From harry at shoka.net Mon Mar 29 20:22:54 2004 From: harry at shoka.net (Harry Moyes) Date: Mon, 29 Mar 2004 21:22:54 +0100 Subject: Is SELinux for curmudgeonly codgers? In-Reply-To: References: <406754F0.9090105@verizon.net> Message-ID: <1080591774.4235.37.camel@shoka> On Mon, 2004-03-29 at 00:34, Bear Tooth wrote: > On Sun, 28 Mar 2004 17:42:56 -0500, michael fivis wrote: > > > What flat panel do you have that Xfree does not support? > > BenQ FP767 > > > And did you kill someone? > > -- that I should be paranoid, you mean? Far from it; I just don't know > enough to know how to protect myself intelligently -- so I take all the > precautions I can understand, in order at least not to be an easy target.,. > I'd wait until you see what the SELinux config comes out like before you jumped ship. I suspect that most distributions will adopt it eventually. IMHO your security measures are basic good practise, and nowhere near paranoid. Another curmudgeonly Codger (behind two layers of firewalling).