From stevelist at silverorange.com Tue Oct 5 00:58:41 2004 From: stevelist at silverorange.com (Steven Garrity) Date: Mon, 04 Oct 2004 21:58:41 -0300 Subject: Bluecurve Theme Modification Experiments Message-ID: <4161F1C1.6000801@silverorange.com> I've been thinking about ways to modernize the RedHat/Fedora Bluecurve theme lately and have started trying my ideas out in practice. My first goal is to improve on the Windows95-esque battleship-grey that colors all of the UI chrome. See this screenshot of Windows 98/2000/XP evolved: http://actsofvolition.com/images/screenshots/Display-95-through-XP.png Note the subtle color difference between 98 and 2000 - but it makes a huge improvement. I was looking at this screenshot of an XFCE beta (http://xfce.org/images/screenshots/xfce42.png) and was wondering why that main start menu looked so good (even though it was just using the bluecurve icons). It turns out it's a soft-beige rather than the battleship grey. So, I've tried this out with Bluecurve. The only change so far is that th primary chrome is now slightly softer and more beige than grey. Some elements that are still pure-grey (alternative list backgrounds, depressed buttons, etc) will look a bit odd next to the new beige, but I'd do them to. Here are before and after screenshots - open them in tabs and switch back and forth to compare: http://actsofvolition.com/images/screenshots/bluecurve-before.png http://actsofvolition.com/images/screenshots/bluecurve-after.png The updated theme is here: http://actsofvolition.com/images/screenshots/Bluecurve-2.tar.gz (once installed, you have to have to go to "Theme Details" and choose Bluecurve-2 in the "Controls" tab). Thoughts and feedback are welcome - particularly from those who maintain the current Bluecurve theme in Fedora. I'm much more interested in trying to help improve the defaults than I am in maintaining an optional theme. Thanks, Steven Garrity From kluge at fujitsu.com.au Tue Oct 5 01:34:58 2004 From: kluge at fujitsu.com.au (Steffen Kluge) Date: Tue, 05 Oct 2004 11:34:58 +1000 Subject: What's wrong with backing store? Message-ID: <1096940098.342.13.camel@syd0137.fujitsu.com.au> Hi, I've just got to ask this, please forgive me if it is only marginally on-topic for this list. Back when I started using X11 (late 80's, Ultrix, X11R3), turning on save-unders and backing store was an essential performance tuning step, that drastically improved the perceived "speed" of the desktop (e.g. disappearing menus exposed the underlying window instantly, without it having to be re-drawn). I've used save-unders and backing store ever since. Which also means that ever since starting to use RH desktops I had to turn it on manually, by editing the X command line in [gx]dm.conf. All RH and FC desktops I've used so far disable backing store (and at the same time save-unders - the two seem to be inextricably linked) by default. Why is that so? I have to admit that with modern hardware the perceived speed-up is small and may even be entirely based on self-suggestion. However, I'd like to understand the pros and cons of turning on backing store with modern X servers and on modern hardware. Cheers Steffen. -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: signature.asc Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 189 bytes Desc: This is a digitally signed message part URL: From feliciano.matias at free.fr Tue Oct 5 08:57:23 2004 From: feliciano.matias at free.fr (Matias =?ISO-8859-1?Q?F=E9liciano?=) Date: Tue, 05 Oct 2004 10:57:23 +0200 Subject: background colour Message-ID: <1096966643.22872.23.camel@localhost.localdomain> I am using FC3T2 (rawhide) and I think : "good job guys" :-) In the desktop front, I find one very annoying thing : - The default background colour It is set to #FFFFFF. It's the brighter colour. In the "real" world, #FFFFFF mean the sun, a spot light, ... Generally, I adapt the setting of the monitor to not face to a wall of suns. But if I want to watch a movie, I need to adjust again the monitor setting. So, I use the theme ThinIce which does not have the background colour set to #FFFFFF. Example : Bluecurve (hot as the fire) : http://feliciano.matias.free.fr/background_colour/Capture-Bluecurve.png ThinIce : http://feliciano.matias.free.fr/background_colour/Capture-ThinIce.png My 2 cents feedback. -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: signature.asc Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 189 bytes Desc: Ceci est une partie de message num?riquement sign?e URL: From douglas.furlong at firebox.com Tue Oct 5 09:20:53 2004 From: douglas.furlong at firebox.com (Douglas Furlong) Date: Tue, 05 Oct 2004 10:20:53 +0100 Subject: background colour In-Reply-To: <1096966643.22872.23.camel@localhost.localdomain> References: <1096966643.22872.23.camel@localhost.localdomain> Message-ID: <1096968053.2685.30.camel@douglas-furlong.firebox.com> On Tue, 2004-10-05 at 10:57 +0200, Matias F?liciano wrote: > Example : > Bluecurve (hot as the fire) : > http://feliciano.matias.free.fr/background_colour/Capture-Bluecurve.png A bit "bright" but okay. > ThinIce : > http://feliciano.matias.free.fr/background_colour/Capture-ThinIce.png Personally I find this colour just a tad too blue. The strange thing is, that I actually "like" the email window being white, however the default nautilus background colour I set to "cement" I think that's the one. As I find this MUCH nicer on the eyes when browsing my file system. To date I'm not entirely sure why I want the white in the email/word documents. But I need the grey in the nautilus window. -- Douglas Furlong Systems Administrator Firebox.com T: 0870 420 4475 F: 0870 220 2178 -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: signature.asc Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 189 bytes Desc: This is a digitally signed message part URL: From feliciano.matias at free.fr Tue Oct 5 09:27:47 2004 From: feliciano.matias at free.fr (Matias =?ISO-8859-1?Q?F=E9liciano?=) Date: Tue, 05 Oct 2004 11:27:47 +0200 Subject: background colour In-Reply-To: <1096968053.2685.30.camel@douglas-furlong.firebox.com> References: <1096966643.22872.23.camel@localhost.localdomain> <1096968053.2685.30.camel@douglas-furlong.firebox.com> Message-ID: <1096968468.22872.30.camel@localhost.localdomain> Le mardi 05 octobre 2004 ? 10:20 +0100, Douglas Furlong a ?crit : > On Tue, 2004-10-05 at 10:57 +0200, Matias F?liciano wrote: > > Example : > > Bluecurve (hot as the fire) : > > http://feliciano.matias.free.fr/background_colour/Capture-Bluecurve.png > > A bit "bright" but okay. > > > ThinIce : > > http://feliciano.matias.free.fr/background_colour/Capture-ThinIce.png > > Personally I find this colour just a tad too blue. An I am not advocating to ThinIce. The point is the brightness of the background colour. -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: signature.asc Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 189 bytes Desc: Ceci est une partie de message num?riquement sign?e URL: From markmc at redhat.com Tue Oct 5 10:44:41 2004 From: markmc at redhat.com (Mark McLoughlin) Date: Tue, 05 Oct 2004 11:44:41 +0100 Subject: gnome now has two panels In-Reply-To: <1096915513.4986.19.camel@localhost.localdomain> References: <00df01c4a7e2$4c2f6b00$0c01a8c0@nugget> <1096905777.3297.3.camel@cei3544.empower.ceimaine.org> <604aa79104100409361289abc1@mail.gmail.com> <1096912055.3297.17.camel@cei3544.empower.ceimaine.org> <1096912526.8563.172.camel@localhost.localdomain> <1096915513.4986.19.camel@localhost.localdomain> Message-ID: <1096973081.17401.2.camel@localhost.localdomain> Hi Owen, On Mon, 2004-10-04 at 19:45, Owen Taylor wrote: > On Mon, 2004-10-04 at 18:55 +0100, Mark McLoughlin wrote: > > > > I was an existing user. I don't mind the change, and I like the > > > canned packages direction, but don't know if the change to my existing > > > panel layout was supposed to happen. > > > > You're right - if it screwed up your existing configuration, then > > that's a bug: > > > > http://bugzilla.gnome.org/attachment.cgi?id=31984&action=view > > Doesn't look like the right link... Yeah, sorry. Its: https://bugzilla.redhat.com/bugzilla/show_bug.cgi?id=134537 > > But I don't mind telling you that scratching my head hasn't yet > > produced any viable ideas for fixing said bug :/ > > Could it simply be users that haven't changed their configuration at > all? Seems unlikely, but I suppose possible. No, the problem is that they've only changed *some* of their panel configuration. I've updated the bug report with an explanation: What's going on here is the panel configuration consists of a large set of inter-related GConf keys. Lets think about just two of them for a minute - toplevel_id_list and object_id_list. The former contains the list of panels in the configuration and the latter contains the list of launchers, menu buttons, menu bars etc. (everything but bonobo applets). These GConf keys individually inherit their default values from defaults database. If you set one of the keys, it no longer matters what the default is, but the other one still inherits the default. So, looking at Stephen's screenshot, its obvious what happened. He added a new launcher to his panel at some point, setting object_id_list to contain all the default launchers and his new one. toplevel_id_list remained unset, inheriting the default. Now, when the panel package was updated the defaults changed, adding an extra panel to toplevel_id_list, removing the menu button from object_id_list and adding the menu bar to object_id_list. End result is that Stephen sees the new panel, but still sees the menu button when he should be seeing the menu bar. Cheers, Mark. From tjb at unh.edu Tue Oct 5 12:32:08 2004 From: tjb at unh.edu (Thomas J. Baker) Date: Tue, 05 Oct 2004 08:32:08 -0400 Subject: Bluecurve Theme Modification Experiments In-Reply-To: <4161F1C1.6000801@silverorange.com> References: <4161F1C1.6000801@silverorange.com> Message-ID: <1096979528.6269.2.camel@wintermute.sr.unh.edu> On Mon, 2004-10-04 at 21:58 -0300, Steven Garrity wrote: > I've been thinking about ways to modernize the RedHat/Fedora Bluecurve > theme lately and have started trying my ideas out in practice. > > My first goal is to improve on the Windows95-esque battleship-grey that > colors all of the UI chrome. See this screenshot of Windows 98/2000/XP > evolved: > http://actsofvolition.com/images/screenshots/Display-95-through-XP.png > Note the subtle color difference between 98 and 2000 - but it makes a > huge improvement. > > I was looking at this screenshot of an XFCE beta > (http://xfce.org/images/screenshots/xfce42.png) and was wondering why > that main start menu looked so good (even though it was just using the > bluecurve icons). It turns out it's a soft-beige rather than the > battleship grey. > > So, I've tried this out with Bluecurve. The only change so far is that > th primary chrome is now slightly softer and more beige than grey. Some > elements that are still pure-grey (alternative list backgrounds, > depressed buttons, etc) will look a bit odd next to the new beige, but > I'd do them to. > > Here are before and after screenshots - open them in tabs and switch > back and forth to compare: > http://actsofvolition.com/images/screenshots/bluecurve-before.png > http://actsofvolition.com/images/screenshots/bluecurve-after.png > > The updated theme is here: > http://actsofvolition.com/images/screenshots/Bluecurve-2.tar.gz > (once installed, you have to have to go to "Theme Details" and choose > Bluecurve-2 in the "Controls" tab). > > Thoughts and feedback are welcome - particularly from those who maintain > the current Bluecurve theme in Fedora. I'm much more interested in > trying to help improve the defaults than I am in maintaining an optional > theme. > > Thanks, > Steven Garrity > Don't know if you've ever noticed but the Bluecurve theme already has some color variations (Go to Preferences->Theme->Theme Details). I use Bluecurve-BerriesAndCream; it's very close to the colors you've chosen. tjb -- ======================================================================= | Thomas Baker email: tjb at unh.edu | | Systems Programmer | | Research Computing Center voice: (603) 862-4490 | | University of New Hampshire fax: (603) 862-1761 | | 332 Morse Hall | | Durham, NH 03824 USA http://wintermute.sr.unh.edu/~tjb | ======================================================================= From kyrre at solution-forge.net Tue Oct 5 14:17:18 2004 From: kyrre at solution-forge.net (Kyrre Ness Sjobak) Date: Tue, 05 Oct 2004 16:17:18 +0200 Subject: What's wrong with backing store? In-Reply-To: <1096940098.342.13.camel@syd0137.fujitsu.com.au> References: <1096940098.342.13.camel@syd0137.fujitsu.com.au> Message-ID: <1096985838.2723.2.camel@kyrre> With that, do you get "streaks" and "smears" when you drag a window? Hmm.. maybe an idea to turn it on then. How do i do it? RTFM? (man xorg.conf ?) What do you mean with "modern hardware"? tir, 05.10.2004 kl. 03.34 skrev Steffen Kluge: > Hi, > I've just got to ask this, please forgive me if it is only marginally > on-topic for this list. > > Back when I started using X11 (late 80's, Ultrix, X11R3), turning on > save-unders and backing store was an essential performance tuning step, > that drastically improved the perceived "speed" of the desktop (e.g. > disappearing menus exposed the underlying window instantly, without it > having to be re-drawn). > > I've used save-unders and backing store ever since. Which also means > that ever since starting to use RH desktops I had to turn it on > manually, by editing the X command line in [gx]dm.conf. All RH and FC > desktops I've used so far disable backing store (and at the same time > save-unders - the two seem to be inextricably linked) by default. > > Why is that so? I have to admit that with modern hardware the perceived > speed-up is small and may even be entirely based on self-suggestion. > However, I'd like to understand the pros and cons of turning on backing > store with modern X servers and on modern hardware. > > Cheers > Steffen. > > > ______________________________________________________________________ > -- > Fedora-desktop-list mailing list > Fedora-desktop-list at redhat.com > http://www.redhat.com/mailman/listinfo/fedora-desktop-list From otaylor at redhat.com Tue Oct 5 19:15:41 2004 From: otaylor at redhat.com (Owen Taylor) Date: Tue, 05 Oct 2004 15:15:41 -0400 Subject: What's wrong with backing store? In-Reply-To: <1096940098.342.13.camel@syd0137.fujitsu.com.au> References: <1096940098.342.13.camel@syd0137.fujitsu.com.au> Message-ID: <1097003741.4986.67.camel@localhost.localdomain> On Tue, 2004-10-05 at 11:34 +1000, Steffen Kluge wrote: > Hi, > I've just got to ask this, please forgive me if it is only marginally > on-topic for this list. > > Back when I started using X11 (late 80's, Ultrix, X11R3), turning on > save-unders and backing store was an essential performance tuning step, > that drastically improved the perceived "speed" of the desktop (e.g. > disappearing menus exposed the underlying window instantly, without it > having to be re-drawn). > > I've used save-unders and backing store ever since. Which also means > that ever since starting to use RH desktops I had to turn it on > manually, by editing the X command line in [gx]dm.conf. All RH and FC > desktops I've used so far disable backing store (and at the same time > save-unders - the two seem to be inextricably linked) by default. > > Why is that so? I have to admit that with modern hardware the perceived > speed-up is small and may even be entirely based on self-suggestion. > However, I'd like to understand the pros and cons of turning on backing > store with modern X servers and on modern hardware. Well, the biggest problem with backing store is that it is per-window not per *toplevel* window. In X, toplevel windows can have subwindows (try xwininfo -tree). In certain circumstances, X can end up storing huge amounts of entirely useless pixel data for subwindows because it mistakes them for obscured toplevels. Save unders are broken because they are just a quick hack that works by turning on backing store for the windows under the popup. The COMPOSITE extension is a much better way of doing backing stored windows. It's slightly more expensive than classic save unders because it saves the entire window, not just the obscured parts, but it's a lot more robust, and allows doing a lot more (previews in your pager, alpha transparency, etc.) We'll probably have it on by default by the FC5 timescale. Regards, Owen -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: signature.asc Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 189 bytes Desc: This is a digitally signed message part URL: From kyrre at solution-forge.net Tue Oct 5 19:30:41 2004 From: kyrre at solution-forge.net (Kyrre Ness Sjobak) Date: Tue, 05 Oct 2004 21:30:41 +0200 Subject: What's wrong with backing store? In-Reply-To: <1097003741.4986.67.camel@localhost.localdomain> References: <1096940098.342.13.camel@syd0137.fujitsu.com.au> <1097003741.4986.67.camel@localhost.localdomain> Message-ID: <1097004640.4416.0.camel@kyrre> tir, 05.10.2004 kl. 21.15 skrev Owen Taylor: > On Tue, 2004-10-05 at 11:34 +1000, Steffen Kluge wrote: > > Hi, > > I've just got to ask this, please forgive me if it is only marginally > > on-topic for this list. > > > > Back when I started using X11 (late 80's, Ultrix, X11R3), turning on > > save-unders and backing store was an essential performance tuning step, > > that drastically improved the perceived "speed" of the desktop (e.g. > > disappearing menus exposed the underlying window instantly, without it > > having to be re-drawn). > > > > I've used save-unders and backing store ever since. Which also means > > that ever since starting to use RH desktops I had to turn it on > > manually, by editing the X command line in [gx]dm.conf. All RH and FC > > desktops I've used so far disable backing store (and at the same time > > save-unders - the two seem to be inextricably linked) by default. > > > > Why is that so? I have to admit that with modern hardware the perceived > > speed-up is small and may even be entirely based on self-suggestion. > > However, I'd like to understand the pros and cons of turning on backing > > store with modern X servers and on modern hardware. > > Well, the biggest problem with backing store is that it is per-window > not per *toplevel* window. In X, toplevel windows can have subwindows > (try xwininfo -tree). > > In certain circumstances, X can end up storing huge amounts of entirely > useless pixel data for subwindows because it mistakes them for > obscured toplevels. > > Save unders are broken because they are just a quick hack that works > by turning on backing store for the windows under the popup. > > The COMPOSITE extension is a much better way of doing backing stored > windows. It's slightly more expensive than classic save unders because > it saves the entire window, not just the obscured parts, but it's > a lot more robust, and allows doing a lot more (previews in your pager, > alpha transparency, etc.) We'll probably have it on by default by > the FC5 timescale. > > Regards, > Owen > > > ______________________________________________________________________ > -- > Fedora-desktop-list mailing list > Fedora-desktop-list at redhat.com > http://www.redhat.com/mailman/listinfo/fedora-desktop-list That's a looong wait. About a year or so... But, yes, i'm really looking foreward to it :P From kluge at fujitsu.com.au Wed Oct 6 06:28:05 2004 From: kluge at fujitsu.com.au (Steffen Kluge) Date: Wed, 06 Oct 2004 16:28:05 +1000 Subject: What's wrong with backing store? In-Reply-To: <1096985838.2723.2.camel@kyrre> References: <1096940098.342.13.camel@syd0137.fujitsu.com.au> <1096985838.2723.2.camel@kyrre> Message-ID: <1097044085.27004.40.camel@syd0137.fujitsu.com.au> On Tue, 2004-10-05 at 16:17 +0200, Kyrre Ness Sjobak wrote: > With that, do you get "streaks" and "smears" when you drag a window? > > Hmm.. maybe an idea to turn it on then. How do i do it? RTFM? (man > xorg.conf ?) I do know how to turn it on. My point was that it *always* seems to be disabled by default, and I feel I'm always swimming against the current by stubbornly turning it on. I just want to understand the rationale behind not having it on by default. Cheers Steffen. > What do you mean with "modern hardware"? I should have said "contemporary" rather than "modern". What I mean is, say, an Athlon XP 2600+ 1GB RAM, NVidia GeForce FX5200 128MB. Rather cheap but reasonably fast stuff. Cheers Steffen. -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: signature.asc Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 189 bytes Desc: This is a digitally signed message part URL: From kluge at fujitsu.com.au Wed Oct 6 06:38:15 2004 From: kluge at fujitsu.com.au (Steffen Kluge) Date: Wed, 06 Oct 2004 16:38:15 +1000 Subject: What's wrong with backing store? In-Reply-To: <1097003741.4986.67.camel@localhost.localdomain> References: <1096940098.342.13.camel@syd0137.fujitsu.com.au> <1097003741.4986.67.camel@localhost.localdomain> Message-ID: <1097044695.27004.51.camel@syd0137.fujitsu.com.au> On Tue, 2004-10-05 at 15:15 -0400, Owen Taylor wrote: > Well, the biggest problem with backing store is that it is per-window > not per *toplevel* window. In X, toplevel windows can have subwindows Hmm, interesting. It seems, though, that the X11 forefathers have thought of that, to a degree. There used to be (still are?) the "WhenMapped" and "WhenUseful" backing store attributes. There still seems to be the -wm server switch, turning on "WhenMapped" for all windows. > In certain circumstances, X can end up storing huge amounts of entirely > useless pixel data for subwindows because it mistakes them for > obscured toplevels. How much of an issue is this? I vaguely remember reading once that backing store uses off-screen frame buffer memory (there should be plenty of that on a 128MB graphics card running at 1280x1024). Does backing store actually affect the X server memory footprint? Then again, doesn't the reported memory footprint of the X server contain all the mapped in frame buffer memory as well? The more I think about it the more I realise my utter ignorance in all of this... Cheers Steffen. -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: signature.asc Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 189 bytes Desc: This is a digitally signed message part URL: From wtogami at redhat.com Wed Oct 6 10:37:33 2004 From: wtogami at redhat.com (Warren Togami) Date: Wed, 06 Oct 2004 00:37:33 -1000 Subject: Why gpdf default again? Message-ID: <4163CAED.8060502@redhat.com> Before FC2's release, we purposefully changed the default pdf viewer from gpdf to ggv because gpdf was horribly unstable. That is still the case today, with it failing to open many PDF documents, or opening it and soon later locking up completely. Why did the default change back to gpdf? Can we switch back to ggv? Warren Togami wtogami at redhat.com From eldesoky.lists at gmail.com Wed Oct 6 13:00:14 2004 From: eldesoky.lists at gmail.com (Mohamed Eldesoky) Date: Wed, 6 Oct 2004 15:00:14 +0200 Subject: Why gpdf default again? In-Reply-To: <4163CAED.8060502@redhat.com> References: <4163CAED.8060502@redhat.com> Message-ID: <1403218a04100606007f738ceb@mail.gmail.com> I like it when RedHat people talk to each other before making a change !! On Wed, 06 Oct 2004 00:37:33 -1000, Warren Togami wrote: > Before FC2's release, we purposefully changed the default pdf viewer > from gpdf to ggv because gpdf was horribly unstable. That is still the > case today, with it failing to open many PDF documents, or opening it > and soon later locking up completely. > > Why did the default change back to gpdf? > > Can we switch back to ggv? > > Warren Togami > wtogami at redhat.com > > -- > Fedora-desktop-list mailing list > Fedora-desktop-list at redhat.com > http://www.redhat.com/mailman/listinfo/fedora-desktop-list > -- Mohamed Eldesoky www.eldesoky.net RHCE From markmc at redhat.com Wed Oct 6 14:47:47 2004 From: markmc at redhat.com (Mark McLoughlin) Date: Wed, 06 Oct 2004 15:47:47 +0100 Subject: Why gpdf default again? In-Reply-To: <1403218a04100606007f738ceb@mail.gmail.com> References: <4163CAED.8060502@redhat.com> <1403218a04100606007f738ceb@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <1097074067.28717.18.camel@localhost.localdomain> Hi, I know you meant this as a joke, but it is worth pointing out a couple of things ... On Wed, 2004-10-06 at 14:00, Mohamed Eldesoky wrote: > I like it when RedHat people talk to each other before making a change !! 1) Whoever changed the default didn't need to talk to Warren in order to make the change. So there's nothing wrong with Warren not knowing why the change was made. 2) Warren could have asked via private mail about this. But its a good thing he didn't because everyone will get to see the response - you, and everyone else on the list, will benefit from any response he gets. We all want more discussions like this to happen in public - so don't knock it when someone does it, lest you cause that person to go back asking questions like this on irc, via private mail or in the hallways. Cheers, Mark. From steve at rueb.com Wed Oct 6 14:47:56 2004 From: steve at rueb.com (Steve Bergman) Date: Wed, 06 Oct 2004 09:47:56 -0500 Subject: Why gpdf default again? In-Reply-To: <4163CAED.8060502@redhat.com> References: <4163CAED.8060502@redhat.com> Message-ID: <4164059C.5040102@rueb.com> > Before FC2's release, we purposefully changed the default pdf viewer > from gpdf to ggv because gpdf was horribly unstable. That is still > the case today, with it failing to open many PDF documents, or opening > it and soon later locking up completely. As much as I like Gnome, an application is not automatically the best just because it has a 'G' in it. From my experience, you really can't beat xpdf. You can easily print and search. It renders well and the interface is straighforward, i.e. not confusing like ggv. -Steve Bergman From alexl at redhat.com Wed Oct 6 15:48:44 2004 From: alexl at redhat.com (Alexander Larsson) Date: Wed, 06 Oct 2004 17:48:44 +0200 Subject: Why gpdf default again? In-Reply-To: <4163CAED.8060502@redhat.com> References: <4163CAED.8060502@redhat.com> Message-ID: <1097077724.3967.60.camel@greebo.homeip.net> On Wed, 2004-10-06 at 00:37 -1000, Warren Togami wrote: > Before FC2's release, we purposefully changed the default pdf viewer > from gpdf to ggv because gpdf was horribly unstable. That is still the > case today, with it failing to open many PDF documents, or opening it > and soon later locking up completely. > > Why did the default change back to gpdf? > > Can we switch back to ggv? This was likely accidental when i transfered the old settings over to the new mime system. I'll change it. =-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-= Alexander Larsson Red Hat, Inc alexl at redhat.com alla at lysator.liu.se He's a globe-trotting guerilla waffle chef fleeing from a secret government programme. She's a cold-hearted red-headed museum curator who believes she is the reincarnation of an ancient Egyptian queen. They fight crime! From alexl at redhat.com Wed Oct 6 15:51:00 2004 From: alexl at redhat.com (Alexander Larsson) Date: Wed, 06 Oct 2004 17:51:00 +0200 Subject: Why gpdf default again? In-Reply-To: <1403218a04100606007f738ceb@mail.gmail.com> References: <4163CAED.8060502@redhat.com> <1403218a04100606007f738ceb@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <1097077860.3967.64.camel@greebo.homeip.net> On Wed, 2004-10-06 at 15:00 +0200, Mohamed Eldesoky wrote: > I like it when RedHat people talk to each other before making a > change !! It would be nice if people could avoid silly comments like this, it furthers the chances of people actually using this channel to communicate. Low signal/noice ratios kills mailing lists. =-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-= Alexander Larsson Red Hat, Inc alexl at redhat.com alla at lysator.liu.se He's a leather-clad zombie househusband in drag. She's a manipulative hip-hop vampire looking for love in all the wrong places. They fight crime! From kyrre at solution-forge.net Wed Oct 6 18:14:11 2004 From: kyrre at solution-forge.net (Kyrre Ness Sjobak) Date: Wed, 06 Oct 2004 20:14:11 +0200 Subject: What's wrong with backing store? In-Reply-To: <1097044085.27004.40.camel@syd0137.fujitsu.com.au> References: <1096940098.342.13.camel@syd0137.fujitsu.com.au> <1096985838.2723.2.camel@kyrre> <1097044085.27004.40.camel@syd0137.fujitsu.com.au> Message-ID: <1097086451.4111.2.camel@kyrre> ons, 06.10.2004 kl. 08.28 skrev Steffen Kluge: > On Tue, 2004-10-05 at 16:17 +0200, Kyrre Ness Sjobak wrote: > > With that, do you get "streaks" and "smears" when you drag a window? > > > > Hmm.. maybe an idea to turn it on then. How do i do it? RTFM? (man > > xorg.conf ?) > > I do know how to turn it on. My point was that it *always* seems to be > disabled by default, and I feel I'm always swimming against the current > by stubbornly turning it on. I just want to understand the rationale > behind not having it on by default. > > Cheers > Steffen. > > > What do you mean with "modern hardware"? > > I should have said "contemporary" rather than "modern". What I mean is, > say, an Athlon XP 2600+ 1GB RAM, NVidia GeForce FX5200 128MB. Rather > cheap but reasonably fast stuff. > > Cheers > Steffen. > Just for the record, my main computer (which i am writing this from) is an 650 Mhz P3 with 348 MB ram and a geforce 2 mx PCI. And i dont plan to switch in the immediate future - unless some of my friends really get me in on doom 3, and i get a lot of money. Neither seems very likely. > > ______________________________________________________________________ > -- > Fedora-desktop-list mailing list > Fedora-desktop-list at redhat.com > http://www.redhat.com/mailman/listinfo/fedora-desktop-list From otaylor at redhat.com Wed Oct 6 18:47:27 2004 From: otaylor at redhat.com (Owen Taylor) Date: Wed, 06 Oct 2004 14:47:27 -0400 Subject: What's wrong with backing store? In-Reply-To: <1097044695.27004.51.camel@syd0137.fujitsu.com.au> References: <1096940098.342.13.camel@syd0137.fujitsu.com.au> <1097003741.4986.67.camel@localhost.localdomain> <1097044695.27004.51.camel@syd0137.fujitsu.com.au> Message-ID: <1097088447.2969.17.camel@localhost.localdomain> On Wed, 2004-10-06 at 16:38 +1000, Steffen Kluge wrote: > On Tue, 2004-10-05 at 15:15 -0400, Owen Taylor wrote: > > Well, the biggest problem with backing store is that it is per-window > > not per *toplevel* window. In X, toplevel windows can have subwindows > > Hmm, interesting. It seems, though, that the X11 forefathers have > thought of that, to a degree. There used to be (still are?) the > "WhenMapped" and "WhenUseful" backing store attributes. There still > seems to be the -wm server switch, turning on "WhenMapped" for all > windows. This doesn't really help - you want to backing store the *visible* portions of subwindows, what you don't want to do is to backing store portions of subwindows that are obscured by other subwindows. > > In certain circumstances, X can end up storing huge amounts of entirely > > useless pixel data for subwindows because it mistakes them for > > obscured toplevels. > > How much of an issue is this? I vaguely remember reading once that > backing store uses off-screen frame buffer memory (there should be > plenty of that on a 128MB graphics card running at 1280x1024). Does > backing store actually affect the X server memory footprint? Then again, > doesn't the reported memory footprint of the X server contain all the > mapped in frame buffer memory as well? The more I think about it the > more I realise my utter ignorance in all of this... Imagine a 10,000 item list that is 150,000 pixels by 1000 pixels - e.g., 450 megs of memory. Under some circumstances, the X backing store code can be fooled into backing storing the *entire list*. Regards, Owen -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: signature.asc Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 189 bytes Desc: This is a digitally signed message part URL: From dcbw at redhat.com Wed Oct 6 18:59:23 2004 From: dcbw at redhat.com (Dan Williams) Date: Wed, 06 Oct 2004 14:59:23 -0400 Subject: What's wrong with backing store? In-Reply-To: <1097088447.2969.17.camel@localhost.localdomain> References: <1096940098.342.13.camel@syd0137.fujitsu.com.au> <1097003741.4986.67.camel@localhost.localdomain> <1097044695.27004.51.camel@syd0137.fujitsu.com.au> <1097088447.2969.17.camel@localhost.localdomain> Message-ID: <1097089163.17709.4.camel@dcbw.boston.redhat.com> On Wed, 2004-10-06 at 14:47 -0400, Owen Taylor wrote: > Imagine a 10,000 item list that is 150,000 pixels by 1000 pixels - > e.g., 450 megs of memory. Apple uses backing store compression in 10.2 and later. Why could that not be used in X? Dan From eldesoky.lists at gmail.com Thu Oct 7 09:57:21 2004 From: eldesoky.lists at gmail.com (Mohamed Eldesoky) Date: Thu, 7 Oct 2004 11:57:21 +0200 Subject: Why gpdf default again? In-Reply-To: <1097074067.28717.18.camel@localhost.localdomain> References: <4163CAED.8060502@redhat.com> <1403218a04100606007f738ceb@mail.gmail.com> <1097074067.28717.18.camel@localhost.localdomain> Message-ID: <1403218a04100702574a36ab63@mail.gmail.com> Well, I will reply for you and Alexander Larsson and the rest of the list. 1- I didn't mean at all to underestimate Warren. 2- I wasn't putting silly comments, or raising the signal/noise ratio I said it as a comment that I felt there is no clear procedure on what goes in and what not. Even RH engineers don't have a reference to go to regarding why something is added or not !! It was my point of view, and I think it is my right to see clear procedures that clarifies what certain settings are made in my preferred distro. Back to the main topic. On Wed, 06 Oct 2004 15:47:47 +0100, Mark McLoughlin wrote: > Hi, > I know you meant this as a joke, but it is worth pointing out a couple > of things ... > > On Wed, 2004-10-06 at 14:00, Mohamed Eldesoky wrote: > > > I like it when RedHat people talk to each other before making a change !! > > 1) Whoever changed the default didn't need to talk to Warren in order > to make the change. So there's nothing wrong with Warren not > knowing why the change was made. > > 2) Warren could have asked via private mail about this. But its a good > thing he didn't because everyone will get to see the response - > you, and everyone else on the list, will benefit from any response > he gets. > > We all want more discussions like this to happen in public - so don't > knock it when someone does it, lest you cause that person to go back > asking questions like this on irc, via private mail or in the hallways. > > Cheers, > Mark. > > -- Mohamed Eldesoky www.eldesoky.net RHCE From alexl at redhat.com Thu Oct 7 12:30:18 2004 From: alexl at redhat.com (Alexander Larsson) Date: Thu, 07 Oct 2004 14:30:18 +0200 Subject: Why gpdf default again? In-Reply-To: <1403218a04100702574a36ab63@mail.gmail.com> References: <4163CAED.8060502@redhat.com> <1403218a04100606007f738ceb@mail.gmail.com> <1097074067.28717.18.camel@localhost.localdomain> <1403218a04100702574a36ab63@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <1097152218.3967.115.camel@greebo.homeip.net> On Thu, 2004-10-07 at 11:57 +0200, Mohamed Eldesoky wrote: > Well, I will reply for you and Alexander Larsson and the rest of the list. > > 1- I didn't mean at all to underestimate Warren. > 2- I wasn't putting silly comments, or raising the signal/noise ratio > > I said it as a comment that I felt there is no clear procedure on what > goes in and what not. Even RH engineers don't have a reference to go > to regarding why something is added or not !! > It was my point of view, and I think it is my right to see clear > procedures that clarifies what certain settings are made in my > preferred distro. > > Back to the main topic. I'm not sure what sort of procedures you think would work? Each change would have to be reviewed by someone? Someone must ok every change made to the distro? Red hat is extremely understaffed compared to most other software development teams. Add to this the fact that we don't write all of the software we're shipping, so we don't have full control of it. If we were to have some sort of super-detailed procedure we'd have to follow for each change we wouldn't get much done at all. We'd have to verify every change linus accepts, every change to gnome, and every change we do. We wouldn't have any time to actually develop new code or fix bugs. In this case, the mime system was completely rewritten in this release, and the default config had to be rewritten for it. I did my best to transcribe the old defaults to the new system, but anyone can make mistakes. I can't figure out any procedure that would have caught that mistake. Well, thats not entierly true. There is one way I know to find such problems. The free software way, release early and have interested people test the stuff and report problems. This is what we're trying to do, and it worked in this case. The problem is, developers don't have time for eternal discussions that seem to pop up often when we post anything to a public list. The actual development talk easily gets lost in unrelated responses. At the moment that is causing a lot of developers to hesitate about posting things on public lists, which is bad for the Fedora project. I'm not sure what to do about this, but if we can't solve it the resulting software will suffer. =-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-= Alexander Larsson Red Hat, Inc alexl at redhat.com alla at lysator.liu.se He's a time-tossed Catholic waffle chef looking for 'the Big One.' She's a manipulative blonde vampire with a knack for trouble. They fight crime! From hp at redhat.com Fri Oct 8 22:03:01 2004 From: hp at redhat.com (Havoc Pennington) Date: Fri, 08 Oct 2004 18:03:01 -0400 Subject: What's wrong with backing store? In-Reply-To: <1097089163.17709.4.camel@dcbw.boston.redhat.com> References: <1096940098.342.13.camel@syd0137.fujitsu.com.au> <1097003741.4986.67.camel@localhost.localdomain> <1097044695.27004.51.camel@syd0137.fujitsu.com.au> <1097088447.2969.17.camel@localhost.localdomain> <1097089163.17709.4.camel@dcbw.boston.redhat.com> Message-ID: <1097272981.3905.76.camel@localhost.localdomain> On Wed, 2004-10-06 at 14:59 -0400, Dan Williams wrote: > On Wed, 2004-10-06 at 14:47 -0400, Owen Taylor wrote: > > Imagine a 10,000 item list that is 150,000 pixels by 1000 pixels - > > e.g., 450 megs of memory. > > Apple uses backing store compression in 10.2 and later. Why could that > not be used in X? > It could, but the new COMPOSITE etc. work will make the old backing store feature obsolete anyhow. Havoc From dfong at redhat.com Fri Oct 8 22:42:44 2004 From: dfong at redhat.com (Diana Fong) Date: Fri, 08 Oct 2004 18:42:44 -0400 Subject: FC3 background Message-ID: <1097275364.22005.32.camel@dhcp83-91.boston.redhat.com> The current Fedora background includes the version number, which does not match the upcoming release. If you have simple, yet attractive, background(s) for Fedora Core now is the time to propose it. Backgrounds should be 1600*1200 and not include the version number. ~Diana Visual Designer, Desktop Team From kyrre at solution-forge.net Sat Oct 9 12:01:12 2004 From: kyrre at solution-forge.net (Kyrre Ness Sjobak) Date: Sat, 09 Oct 2004 14:01:12 +0200 Subject: What's wrong with backing store? In-Reply-To: <1097272981.3905.76.camel@localhost.localdomain> References: <1096940098.342.13.camel@syd0137.fujitsu.com.au> <1097003741.4986.67.camel@localhost.localdomain> <1097044695.27004.51.camel@syd0137.fujitsu.com.au> <1097088447.2969.17.camel@localhost.localdomain> <1097089163.17709.4.camel@dcbw.boston.redhat.com> <1097272981.3905.76.camel@localhost.localdomain> Message-ID: <1097323272.2695.0.camel@kyrre> But backing store works NOW. Composite don't. l?r, 09.10.2004 kl. 00.03 skrev Havoc Pennington: > On Wed, 2004-10-06 at 14:59 -0400, Dan Williams wrote: > > On Wed, 2004-10-06 at 14:47 -0400, Owen Taylor wrote: > > > Imagine a 10,000 item list that is 150,000 pixels by 1000 pixels - > > > e.g., 450 megs of memory. > > > > Apple uses backing store compression in 10.2 and later. Why could that > > not be used in X? > > > > It could, but the new COMPOSITE etc. work will make the old backing > store feature obsolete anyhow. > > Havoc > From hp at redhat.com Sat Oct 9 15:27:41 2004 From: hp at redhat.com (Havoc Pennington) Date: Sat, 09 Oct 2004 11:27:41 -0400 Subject: What's wrong with backing store? In-Reply-To: <1097323272.2695.0.camel@kyrre> References: <1096940098.342.13.camel@syd0137.fujitsu.com.au> <1097003741.4986.67.camel@localhost.localdomain> <1097044695.27004.51.camel@syd0137.fujitsu.com.au> <1097088447.2969.17.camel@localhost.localdomain> <1097089163.17709.4.camel@dcbw.boston.redhat.com> <1097272981.3905.76.camel@localhost.localdomain> <1097323272.2695.0.camel@kyrre> Message-ID: <1097335661.4167.10.camel@localhost.localdomain> On Sat, 2004-10-09 at 14:01 +0200, Kyrre Ness Sjobak wrote: > But backing store works NOW. Composite don't. > It doesn't support compression or avoid the huge-memory-usage cases now. Those things aren't trivial to fix, and the people that would fix them are working on composite instead. Composite is not any more blue-sky or long-term than fixing backing store would be. Havoc From sandmann at redhat.com Sun Oct 10 15:42:04 2004 From: sandmann at redhat.com (=?ISO-8859-15?Q?S=F8ren_Sandmann_Pedersen?=) Date: Sun, 10 Oct 2004 11:42:04 -0400 Subject: What's wrong with backing store? In-Reply-To: <1097272981.3905.76.camel@localhost.localdomain> References: <1096940098.342.13.camel@syd0137.fujitsu.com.au> <1097003741.4986.67.camel@localhost.localdomain> <1097044695.27004.51.camel@syd0137.fujitsu.com.au> <1097088447.2969.17.camel@localhost.localdomain> <1097089163.17709.4.camel@dcbw.boston.redhat.com> <1097272981.3905.76.camel@localhost.localdomain> Message-ID: <4169584C.1000509@redhat.com> Havoc Pennington wrote: > >It could, but the new COMPOSITE etc. work will make the old backing >store feature obsolete anyhow. > > I think the idea of backing store compresison will be relevant for COMPOSITE as well. COMPOSITE is going to require lots and lots of video memory, or perhaps even system memory in some cases. Soeren From nicu_fedora at nicubunu.ro Mon Oct 11 08:11:50 2004 From: nicu_fedora at nicubunu.ro (Nicu Buculei) Date: Mon, 11 Oct 2004 11:11:50 +0300 Subject: FC3 background In-Reply-To: <416A3DF6.7070601@apsro.com> References: <416A3DF6.7070601@apsro.com> Message-ID: <416A4046.3010406@nicubunu.ro> Diana Fong wrote: > The current Fedora background includes the version number, which does > not match the upcoming release. If you have simple, yet attractive, > background(s) for Fedora Core now is the time to propose it. i have a page with some simple visual elements related to Fedora Core in SVG format (and plan to add more), maybe someone will find something useful for creating backgrounds (for example a SVG version of the logo, which originally is in Illustrator format): http://www.nicubunu.ro/fedora/artwork/ > Backgrounds should be 1600*1200 and not include the version number i have on that page a couple of (pretty lame) backgrounds, in a smaller resolution but in scalable format (SVG) -- nicu my Fedora artwork: http://www.nicubunu.ro/fedora/artwork Open Clip Art Library: http://www.openclipart.org From nicu_fedora at nicubunu.ro Mon Oct 11 09:38:29 2004 From: nicu_fedora at nicubunu.ro (Nicu Buculei) Date: Mon, 11 Oct 2004 12:38:29 +0300 Subject: FC3 background In-Reply-To: <416A3DF6.7070601@apsro.com> References: <416A3DF6.7070601@apsro.com> Message-ID: <416A5495.5010304@nicubunu.ro> Diana Fong wrote: > The current Fedora background includes the version number, which does > not match the upcoming release. If you have simple, yet attractive, > background(s) for Fedora Core now is the time to propose it. what kind of backgrounds are desired? - something with Fedora theme - abstract images - illustrative (for example: natural images) how can some external contributor should propose a background? -- nicu my Fedora artwork: http://www.nicubunu.ro/fedora/artwork Open Clip Art Library: http://www.openclipart.org From stevelist at silverorange.com Mon Oct 11 14:52:31 2004 From: stevelist at silverorange.com (Steven Garrity) Date: Mon, 11 Oct 2004 11:52:31 -0300 Subject: FC3 background In-Reply-To: <416A5495.5010304@nicubunu.ro> References: <416A3DF6.7070601@apsro.com> <416A5495.5010304@nicubunu.ro> Message-ID: <416A9E2F.4070407@silverorange.com> Nicu Buculei wrote: > what kind of backgrounds are desired? > - something with Fedora theme > - abstract images > - illustrative (for example: natural images) My thoughts: - The default background should be abstract and subtle (see OS X default [1]) - A few natural photographic options are fine (leaves, sky, etc.) - That's probably plenty [1] http://images.apple.com/macosx/features/expose/images/expose_side2_10082003.jpg Steven Garrity From tony at tgds.net Mon Oct 11 15:12:19 2004 From: tony at tgds.net (Tony Grant) Date: Mon, 11 Oct 2004 17:12:19 +0200 Subject: FC3 background In-Reply-To: <416A9E2F.4070407@silverorange.com> References: <416A3DF6.7070601@apsro.com> <416A5495.5010304@nicubunu.ro> <416A9E2F.4070407@silverorange.com> Message-ID: <1097507538.28500.271.camel@localhost.localdomain> Le lun 11/10/2004 ? 16:52, Steven Garrity a ?crit : > My thoughts: > - The default background should be abstract and subtle (see OS X > default [1]) That is my default on my Vaio C1XD running FC2 since this morning =:-D > - A few natural photographic options are fine (leaves, sky, etc.) > - That's probably plenty How about a grassy green hill with a blue sky and a few puffy white clouds? Oh wait... =:D My current background is here http://www.wally.com/jumpch.asp?idChannel=24&idUser=0&attivo=7 all that is missing is 2.5 million ? so that I can buy one of these and have Fedora Core X painted on the side. But they are very strong graphically speaking, got a bit of nature and a ton of high tech goodness. I think the default should be a strong graphical expression. The Mac one is very dynamic. There is place for other stuff in the optional wallpapers. Cheers Tony Grant -- www.tgds.net Library management software toolkit From nicu_fedora at nicubunu.ro Mon Oct 11 20:37:40 2004 From: nicu_fedora at nicubunu.ro (Nicu Buculei) Date: Mon, 11 Oct 2004 23:37:40 +0300 Subject: FC3 background In-Reply-To: <416A9E2F.4070407@silverorange.com> References: <416A3DF6.7070601@apsro.com> <416A5495.5010304@nicubunu.ro> <416A9E2F.4070407@silverorange.com> Message-ID: <416AEF14.3000901@nicubunu.ro> Steven Garrity wrote: > Nicu Buculei wrote: >> what kind of backgrounds are desired? >> - something with Fedora theme >> - abstract images >> - illustrative (for example: natural images) i have online some previews (low resolution, 800x600), if you like anything ask me for the high resolution version > My thoughts: > - The default background should be abstract and subtle (see OS X > default [1]) those are really hard to make, because every person has his own taste. here are a few attempts: http://www.nicubunu.ro/wallpapers/?gallery=abstract > - A few natural photographic options are fine (leaves, sky, etc.) flowers, peisages: http://www.nicubunu.ro/wallpapers/?gallery=nature > - That's probably plenty -- nicu my Fedora artwork: http://www.nicubunu.ro/fedora/artwork Open Clip Art Library: http://www.openclipart.org From veguilla at hpcf.upr.edu Mon Oct 11 21:01:33 2004 From: veguilla at hpcf.upr.edu (Ricardo Veguilla) Date: Mon, 11 Oct 2004 17:01:33 -0400 Subject: FC3 background In-Reply-To: <416A4046.3010406@nicubunu.ro> References: <416A3DF6.7070601@apsro.com> <416A4046.3010406@nicubunu.ro> Message-ID: <1097528494.7587.15.camel@ricardo.veguilla.net> On Mon, 2004-10-11 at 11:11 +0300, Nicu Buculei wrote: > Diana Fong wrote: > > The current Fedora background includes the version number, which does > > not match the upcoming release. If you have simple, yet attractive, > > background(s) for Fedora Core now is the time to propose it. > > i have a page with some simple visual elements related to Fedora Core in > SVG format (and plan to add more), maybe someone will find something > useful for creating backgrounds (for example a SVG version of the logo, > which originally is in Illustrator format): > http://www.nicubunu.ro/fedora/artwork/ > > > Backgrounds should be 1600*1200 and not include the version number > > i have on that page a couple of (pretty lame) backgrounds, in a smaller > resolution but in scalable format (SVG) > I'm curious, will it be possible add transparency to some of those backgrounds? -- Ricardo Veguilla From kyrre at solution-forge.net Mon Oct 11 21:10:01 2004 From: kyrre at solution-forge.net (Kyrre Ness Sjobak) Date: Mon, 11 Oct 2004 23:10:01 +0200 Subject: FC3 background In-Reply-To: <416AEF14.3000901@nicubunu.ro> References: <416A3DF6.7070601@apsro.com> <416A5495.5010304@nicubunu.ro> <416A9E2F.4070407@silverorange.com> <416AEF14.3000901@nicubunu.ro> Message-ID: <1097529000.28625.11.camel@kyrre> Those abstract ones (at least the two first ones) looked nice - but maybe a little bit close to the OS X background? Keep up the good work! Kyrre man, 11.10.2004 kl. 22.37 skrev Nicu Buculei: > Steven Garrity wrote: > > Nicu Buculei wrote: > >> what kind of backgrounds are desired? > >> - something with Fedora theme > >> - abstract images > >> - illustrative (for example: natural images) > > i have online some previews (low resolution, 800x600), if you like > anything ask me for the high resolution version > > > My thoughts: > > - The default background should be abstract and subtle (see OS X > > default [1]) > > those are really hard to make, because every person has his own taste. > here are a few attempts: http://www.nicubunu.ro/wallpapers/?gallery=abstract > > > - A few natural photographic options are fine (leaves, sky, etc.) > > flowers, peisages: http://www.nicubunu.ro/wallpapers/?gallery=nature > > > - That's probably plenty > > > -- > nicu > my Fedora artwork: http://www.nicubunu.ro/fedora/artwork > Open Clip Art Library: http://www.openclipart.org From nicu_fedora at nicubunu.ro Tue Oct 12 05:17:37 2004 From: nicu_fedora at nicubunu.ro (Nicu Buculei) Date: Tue, 12 Oct 2004 08:17:37 +0300 Subject: FC3 background In-Reply-To: <1097528494.7587.15.camel@ricardo.veguilla.net> References: <416A3DF6.7070601@apsro.com> <416A4046.3010406@nicubunu.ro> <1097528494.7587.15.camel@ricardo.veguilla.net> Message-ID: <416B68F1.2090002@nicubunu.ro> Ricardo Veguilla wrote: > On Mon, 2004-10-11 at 11:11 +0300, Nicu Buculei wrote: >>i have on that page a couple of (pretty lame) backgrounds, in a smaller >>resolution but in scalable format (SVG) > > > I'm curious, will it be possible add transparency to some of those backgrounds? transparency? yes this is possible (is easy for SVG) but what is the purpose? what can be under background? -- nicu my personal Fedora artwork: http://www.nicubunu.ro/fedora/artwork Open Clip Art Library: http://www.openclipart.org From veguilla at hpcf.upr.edu Tue Oct 12 08:43:09 2004 From: veguilla at hpcf.upr.edu (Ricardo Veguilla) Date: Tue, 12 Oct 2004 04:43:09 -0400 Subject: FC3 background In-Reply-To: <416B68F1.2090002@nicubunu.ro> References: <416A3DF6.7070601@apsro.com> <416A4046.3010406@nicubunu.ro> <1097528494.7587.15.camel@ricardo.veguilla.net> <416B68F1.2090002@nicubunu.ro> Message-ID: <1097570589.15435.35.camel@ricardo.veguilla.net> On Tue, 2004-10-12 at 08:17 +0300, Nicu Buculei wrote: > Ricardo Veguilla wrote: > > On Mon, 2004-10-11 at 11:11 +0300, Nicu Buculei wrote: > >>i have on that page a couple of (pretty lame) backgrounds, in a smaller > >>resolution but in scalable format (SVG) > > > > > > I'm curious, will it be possible add transparency to some of those backgrounds? > > transparency? yes this is possible (is easy for SVG) but what is the > purpose? what can be under background? A color (solid or gradient) to match my desktop theme. For example, I modified the old fedora default background (the dark blue/purple flowers background) to use transparency so I could change the color to red or green. Check this examples: http://art.gnome.org/backgrounds/gnome/188/ http://art.gnome.org/backgrounds/gnome/179/ Regards, -- Ricardo Veguilla From mgoodhew at gmail.com Tue Oct 12 14:14:36 2004 From: mgoodhew at gmail.com (Miles Goodhew) Date: Wed, 13 Oct 2004 00:14:36 +1000 Subject: FC3 background In-Reply-To: <1097275364.22005.32.camel@dhcp83-91.boston.redhat.com> References: <1097275364.22005.32.camel@dhcp83-91.boston.redhat.com> Message-ID: <3514a2104101207141f666888@mail.gmail.com> Diana, > The current Fedora background includes the version number, which does > not match the upcoming release. If you have simple, yet attractive, > background(s) for Fedora Core now is the time to propose it. Ok, having had to fiddle-around with this kind of thing recently for TV, I couldn't resist trying my hand at another "inoffensive" backdrop image. Here's my effort (Forgive the angelfired website): http://www.angelfire.com/apes/rjfarquhar/FedoraCoreBkg/ Thanks, Moles. -- Miles Goodhew, Senior Hacker TransACT communications From jensknutson at yahoo.com Tue Oct 12 15:17:40 2004 From: jensknutson at yahoo.com (jck) Date: Tue, 12 Oct 2004 10:17:40 -0500 Subject: FC3 background In-Reply-To: <1097275364.22005.32.camel@dhcp83-91.boston.redhat.com> References: <1097275364.22005.32.camel@dhcp83-91.boston.redhat.com> Message-ID: <1097594260.3113.13.camel@morpheus.jensk.net> On Fri, 2004-10-08 at 18:42 -0400, Diana Fong wrote: > The current Fedora background includes the version number, which does > not match the upcoming release. If you have simple, yet attractive, > background(s) for Fedora Core now is the time to propose it. What's wrong with the default background being used in FC3-test3? - Jens -- "the bugs in Sawfish, and its greater configurability, are not orthogonal/unrelated facts" - Havoc Pennington From foolish at fedoraforum.org Tue Oct 12 17:44:49 2004 From: foolish at fedoraforum.org (Sindre Pedersen Bjordal) Date: Tue, 12 Oct 2004 19:44:49 +0200 Subject: FC3 background In-Reply-To: <1097275364.22005.32.camel@dhcp83-91.boston.redhat.com> References: <1097275364.22005.32.camel@dhcp83-91.boston.redhat.com> Message-ID: <1097603089.5508.0.camel@localhost.localdomain> Came over this some time ago, I haven't talked to the author about it, but I thought I should add it to the discussion: http://www.fedoraforum.org/gallery/displayimage.php?pos=-115 fre, 08,.10.2004 kl. 18.42 -0400, skrev Diana Fong: > The current Fedora background includes the version number, which does > not match the upcoming release. If you have simple, yet attractive, > background(s) for Fedora Core now is the time to propose it. > > Backgrounds should be 1600*1200 and not include the version number. > > ~Diana > Visual Designer, Desktop Team > -- Sindre Pedersen Bjordal www.fedoraforum.org -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: signature.asc Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 189 bytes Desc: Dette er en digitalt signert meldingsdel URL: From jspaleta at gmail.com Tue Oct 12 19:16:14 2004 From: jspaleta at gmail.com (Jeff Spaleta) Date: Tue, 12 Oct 2004 15:16:14 -0400 Subject: FC3 background In-Reply-To: <1097594260.3113.13.camel@morpheus.jensk.net> References: <1097275364.22005.32.camel@dhcp83-91.boston.redhat.com> <1097594260.3113.13.camel@morpheus.jensk.net> Message-ID: <604aa79104101212167ee2c0ae@mail.gmail.com> On Tue, 12 Oct 2004 10:17:40 -0500, jck wrote: > What's wrong with the default background being used in FC3-test3? What's wrong with asking community to be invovled? I think its a bit late to ask for submission for fc3 and be able to take full advantage of community interest, but I like the idea of Red Hat as the managing entity for Fedora asking for and encouraging community input. I would have liked to see more specific guidance than the annoucement here but its a start. In the FC4 future, I would hope that for any call for artwork submission from community will come earlier into the testing process and would be much more widely communicated than just the desktop list. I would also like to see it approached more as a competition with submission deadlines and some clear guidance as to theme and style. If I had managerial control, I'd would organize it as a competition with small group (even as small as one person) of experts who would choose a small number of finalist submissions that would all be acceptible as a background to include in Core. I would have the small expert group select one "winner" out of the finalist to be the default background for fc4, and then i would open up a public poll of the remaining finalist submissions to select a "people's choice" winning background to be included but not be the default background. I would then archive the remaining finalist submissions into an online gallery in the fedora project webspace. I would attempt to repeat the same sort of process with each core release. Swapping out a couple of backgrounds each release and archiving them in the online gallery location, to make room for the 2 new backgrounds. One judge's choice as the default, and one people's choice as an alternative. -jef From tfox at redhat.com Tue Oct 12 19:51:09 2004 From: tfox at redhat.com (Tammy Fox) Date: Tue, 12 Oct 2004 15:51:09 -0400 Subject: FC3 background In-Reply-To: <604aa79104101212167ee2c0ae@mail.gmail.com> References: <1097275364.22005.32.camel@dhcp83-91.boston.redhat.com> <1097594260.3113.13.camel@morpheus.jensk.net> <604aa79104101212167ee2c0ae@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <1097610669.4120.90.camel@localhost.localdomain> On Tue, 2004-10-12 at 15:16 -0400, Jeff Spaleta wrote: > On Tue, 12 Oct 2004 10:17:40 -0500, jck wrote: > > What's wrong with the default background being used in FC3-test3? > > What's wrong with asking community to be invovled? I think its a bit > late to ask for submission for fc3 and be able to take full advantage > of community interest, but I like the idea of Red Hat as the managing > entity for Fedora asking for and encouraging community input. I would > have liked to see more specific guidance than the annoucement here but > its a start. > > In the FC4 future, I would hope that for any call for artwork > submission from community will come earlier into the testing process > and would be much more widely communicated than just the desktop list. > I would also like to see it approached more as a competition with > submission deadlines and some clear guidance as to theme and style. > > If I had managerial control, I'd would organize it as a competition > with small group (even as small as one person) of experts who would > choose a small number of finalist submissions that would all be > acceptible as a background to include in Core. I would have the small > expert group select one "winner" out of the finalist to be the default > background for fc4, and then i would open up a public poll of the > remaining finalist submissions to select a "people's choice" winning > background to be included but not be the default background. I would > then archive the remaining finalist submissions into an online gallery > in the fedora project webspace. I would attempt to repeat the same > sort of process with each core release. Swapping out a couple of > backgrounds each release and archiving them in the online gallery > location, to make room for the 2 new backgrounds. One judge's choice > as the default, and one people's choice as an alternative. > > -jef Please keep in mind that Diana was just hired to replace Garrett, so she is joining the FC3 release rather late in the game. I think it is great that she has jumped in so fast and already started thinking about more community participation. I'm sure as she goes through a release or two she will learn to ask more specific questions. Tammy From kyrre at solution-forge.net Tue Oct 12 20:48:03 2004 From: kyrre at solution-forge.net (Kyrre Ness Sjobak) Date: Tue, 12 Oct 2004 22:48:03 +0200 Subject: FC3 background In-Reply-To: <3514a2104101207141f666888@mail.gmail.com> References: <1097275364.22005.32.camel@dhcp83-91.boston.redhat.com> <3514a2104101207141f666888@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <1097614082.2689.97.camel@kyrre> Nice! The green one prides my desktop rigth now :) tir, 12.10.2004 kl. 16.14 skrev Miles Goodhew: > Diana, > > > The current Fedora background includes the version number, which does > > not match the upcoming release. If you have simple, yet attractive, > > background(s) for Fedora Core now is the time to propose it. > > > > Ok, having had to fiddle-around with this kind of thing recently for > TV, I couldn't resist trying my hand at another "inoffensive" backdrop > image. Here's my effort (Forgive the angelfired website): > > http://www.angelfire.com/apes/rjfarquhar/FedoraCoreBkg/ > > Thanks, > > Moles. > > -- > Miles Goodhew, Senior Hacker > TransACT communications From jensknutson at yahoo.com Tue Oct 12 23:31:26 2004 From: jensknutson at yahoo.com (jck) Date: Tue, 12 Oct 2004 18:31:26 -0500 Subject: FC3 background In-Reply-To: <604aa79104101212167ee2c0ae@mail.gmail.com> References: <1097275364.22005.32.camel@dhcp83-91.boston.redhat.com> <1097594260.3113.13.camel@morpheus.jensk.net> <604aa79104101212167ee2c0ae@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <1097623886.3113.20.camel@morpheus.jensk.net> On Tue, 2004-10-12 at 15:16 -0400, Jeff Spaleta wrote: > On Tue, 12 Oct 2004 10:17:40 -0500, jck wrote: > > What's wrong with the default background being used in FC3-test3? > > What's wrong with asking community to be invovled? Nothing, necessarily; I just happen to really like the current default in the test releases, so I was wondering why what isn't broken should be "fixed". - Jens -- "the bugs in Sawfish, and its greater configurability, are not orthogonal/unrelated facts" - Havoc Pennington -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From christopher.blizzard at gmail.com Wed Oct 13 17:48:04 2004 From: christopher.blizzard at gmail.com (Chris Blizzard) Date: Wed, 13 Oct 2004 13:48:04 -0400 Subject: pango on by default in mozilla builds Message-ID: I've flipped the switch on the Mozilla package so that pango is used for display. This means that we have a lot of good support for a lot of languages which were lacking with the current mozilla builds. No, it's not used for printing quite yet. That's next on the list. Yeah, it's late in the FC3 release cycle for this kind of change but we need to get it tested some time with a wider audience, and it's undergone some pretty good testing. If there are big problems, I can always switch it off again. Happy testing! --Chris From feliciano.matias at free.fr Wed Oct 13 18:16:00 2004 From: feliciano.matias at free.fr (Matias =?ISO-8859-1?Q?F=E9liciano?=) Date: Wed, 13 Oct 2004 20:16:00 +0200 Subject: pango on by default in mozilla builds In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <1097691360.21836.0.camel@localhost.localdomain> Le mercredi 13 octobre 2004 ? 13:48 -0400, Chris Blizzard a ?crit : > I've flipped the switch on the Mozilla package so that pango is used > for display. Only for mozilla or also for firefox ? -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: signature.asc Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 189 bytes Desc: Ceci est une partie de message num?riquement sign?e URL: From christopher.blizzard at gmail.com Wed Oct 13 18:18:50 2004 From: christopher.blizzard at gmail.com (Chris Blizzard) Date: Wed, 13 Oct 2004 14:18:50 -0400 Subject: pango on by default in mozilla builds In-Reply-To: <1097691360.21836.0.camel@localhost.localdomain> References: <1097691360.21836.0.camel@localhost.localdomain> Message-ID: On Wed, 13 Oct 2004 20:16:00 +0200, Matias F?liciano wrote: > Le mercredi 13 octobre 2004 ? 13:48 -0400, Chris Blizzard a ?crit : > > I've flipped the switch on the Mozilla package so that pango is used > > for display. > > Only for mozilla or also for firefox ? > I'm working on firefox right now. --Chris From kyrre at solution-forge.net Wed Oct 13 18:23:33 2004 From: kyrre at solution-forge.net (Kyrre Ness Sjobak) Date: Wed, 13 Oct 2004 20:23:33 +0200 Subject: pango on by default in mozilla builds In-Reply-To: <1097691360.21836.0.camel@localhost.localdomain> References: <1097691360.21836.0.camel@localhost.localdomain> Message-ID: <1097691813.7164.3.camel@kyrre> epiphany? ons, 13.10.2004 kl. 20.16 skrev Matias F?liciano: > Le mercredi 13 octobre 2004 ? 13:48 -0400, Chris Blizzard a ?crit : > > I've flipped the switch on the Mozilla package so that pango is used > > for display. > > Only for mozilla or also for firefox ? > > ______________________________________________________________________ > -- > Fedora-desktop-list mailing list > Fedora-desktop-list at redhat.com > http://www.redhat.com/mailman/listinfo/fedora-desktop-list From feliciano.matias at free.fr Wed Oct 13 18:38:40 2004 From: feliciano.matias at free.fr (Matias =?ISO-8859-1?Q?F=E9liciano?=) Date: Wed, 13 Oct 2004 20:38:40 +0200 Subject: pango on by default in mozilla builds In-Reply-To: <1097691813.7164.3.camel@kyrre> References: <1097691360.21836.0.camel@localhost.localdomain> <1097691813.7164.3.camel@kyrre> Message-ID: <1097692720.21836.2.camel@localhost.localdomain> Le mercredi 13 octobre 2004 ? 20:23 +0200, Kyrre Ness Sjobak a ?crit : > epiphany? > epiphany use mozilla. -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: signature.asc Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 189 bytes Desc: Ceci est une partie de message num?riquement sign?e URL: From sopwith at redhat.com Wed Oct 6 19:51:08 2004 From: sopwith at redhat.com (Elliot Lee) Date: Wed, 6 Oct 2004 15:51:08 -0400 Subject: Fedora Project Mailing Lists reminder Message-ID: This is a reminder of the mailing lists for the Fedora Project, and the purpose of each list. You can view this information at http://fedora.redhat.com/participate/communicate/ When you're using these mailing lists, please take the time to choose the one that is most appropriate to your post. If you don't know the right mailing list to use for a question or discussion, please contact me. This will help you get the best possible answer for your question, and keep other list subscribers happy! Mailing Lists Mailing lists are email addresses which send email to all users subscribed to the mailing list. Sending an email to a mailing list reaches all users interested in discussing a specific topic and users available to help other users with the topic. The following mailing lists are available. To subscribe, send email to -request at redhat.com (replace with the desired mailing list name such as fedora-list) with the word subscribe in the subject. fedora-announce-list - Announcements of changes and events. To stay aware of news, subscribe to this list. fedora-list - For users of releases. If you want help with a problem installing or using , this is the list for you. fedora-test-list - For testers of test releases. If you would like to discuss experiences using TEST releases, this is the list for you. fedora-devel-list - For developers, developers, developers. If you are interested in helping create releases, this is the list for you. fedora-docs-list - For participants of the docs project fedora-desktop-list - For discussions about desktop issues such as user interfaces, artwork, and usability fedora-config-list - For discussions about the development of configuration tools fedora-legacy-announce - For announcements about the Fedora Legacy Project fedora-legacy-list - For discussions about the Fedora Legacy Project fedora-selinux-list - For discussions about the Fedora SELinux Project fedora-de-list - For discussions about Fedora in the German language fedora-es-list - For discussions about Fedora in the Spanish language fedora-ja-list - For discussions about Fedora in the Japanese language fedora-i18n-list - For discussions about the internationalization of Fedora Core fedora-trans-list - For discussions about translating the software and documentation associated with the Fedora Project German: fedora-trans-de French: fedora-trans-fr Spanish: fedora-trans-es Italian: fedora-trans-it Brazilian Portuguese: fedora-trans-pt_br Japanese: fedora-trans-ja Korean: fedora-trans-ko Simplified Chinese: fedora-trans-zh_cn Traditional Chinese: fedora-trans-zh_tw From kyrre at solution-forge.net Wed Oct 13 19:28:04 2004 From: kyrre at solution-forge.net (Kyrre Ness Sjobak) Date: Wed, 13 Oct 2004 21:28:04 +0200 Subject: Fedora Project Mailing Lists reminder In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <1097695684.7164.17.camel@kyrre> Sorry for bothering you, but your mails shows up as sent "6 october 21:51". My clock says "13 oct 21:28" ons, 06.10.2004 kl. 21.51 skrev Elliot Lee: > This is a reminder of the mailing lists for the Fedora Project, and > the purpose of each list. You can view this information at > http://fedora.redhat.com/participate/communicate/ > > When you're using these mailing lists, please take the time to choose > the one that is most appropriate to your post. If you don't know the > right mailing list to use for a question or discussion, please contact > me. This will help you get the best possible answer for your question, > and keep other list subscribers happy! > > Mailing Lists > > Mailing lists are email addresses which send email to all users > subscribed to the mailing list. Sending an email to a mailing list > reaches all users interested in discussing a specific topic and users > available to help other users with the topic. > > The following mailing lists are available. To subscribe, send email to -request at redhat.com > (replace with the desired mailing list name such as > fedora-list) with the word subscribe in the subject. > > fedora-announce-list - Announcements of changes and events. To stay > aware of news, subscribe to this list. > fedora-list - For users of releases. If you want help with a problem > installing or using , this is the list for you. > fedora-test-list - For testers of test releases. If you would like to > discuss experiences using TEST releases, this is the list for you. > fedora-devel-list - For developers, developers, developers. If you are > interested in helping create releases, this is the list for you. > fedora-docs-list - For participants of the docs project > fedora-desktop-list - For discussions about desktop issues such as user > interfaces, artwork, and usability > fedora-config-list - For discussions about the development of > configuration tools > fedora-legacy-announce - For announcements about the Fedora Legacy > Project > fedora-legacy-list - For discussions about the Fedora Legacy Project > fedora-selinux-list - For discussions about the Fedora SELinux Project > fedora-de-list - For discussions about Fedora in the German language > fedora-es-list - For discussions about Fedora in the Spanish language > fedora-ja-list - For discussions about Fedora in the Japanese language > fedora-i18n-list - For discussions about the internationalization of > Fedora Core > fedora-trans-list - For discussions about translating the software and > documentation associated with the Fedora Project > German: fedora-trans-de > French: fedora-trans-fr > Spanish: fedora-trans-es > Italian: fedora-trans-it > Brazilian Portuguese: fedora-trans-pt_br > Japanese: fedora-trans-ja > Korean: fedora-trans-ko > Simplified Chinese: fedora-trans-zh_cn > Traditional Chinese: fedora-trans-zh_tw From pijucliu at hawaiilinux.us Thu Oct 14 04:59:00 2004 From: pijucliu at hawaiilinux.us (Ping-Wu Zhang) Date: Wed, 13 Oct 2004 18:59:00 -1000 Subject: pango on by default in mozilla builds In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <416E0794.6020102@hawaiilinux.us> The Chinese characters look funny (some characters are ostensibly bigger than others). No problem in displaying web pages, just the dialog window and tool bars look funny. Chris Blizzard wrote: >I've flipped the switch on the Mozilla package so that pango is used >for display. This means that we have a lot of good support for a lot >of languages which were lacking with the current mozilla builds. No, >it's not used for printing quite yet. That's next on the list. > >Yeah, it's late in the FC3 release cycle for this kind of change but >we need to get it tested some time with a wider audience, and it's >undergone some pretty good testing. If there are big problems, I can >always switch it off again. > >Happy testing! > >--Chris > > > From xsos1982 at yahoo.com.sg Wed Oct 13 19:22:57 2004 From: xsos1982 at yahoo.com.sg (Rubi Sutanto) Date: Thu, 14 Oct 2004 03:22:57 +0800 (CST) Subject: FC3 background In-Reply-To: <1097614082.2689.97.camel@kyrre> Message-ID: <20041013192257.95450.qmail@web52703.mail.yahoo.com> Hello, this is my wallpaper, i hope u guys like it :D abstract with blue and black color combinantion. http://www.deviantart.com/deviation/11395285/ Thanks Kyrre Ness Sjobak wrote: Nice! The green one prides my desktop rigth now :) tir, 12.10.2004 kl. 16.14 skrev Miles Goodhew: > Diana, > > > The current Fedora background includes the version number, which does > > not match the upcoming release. If you have simple, yet attractive, > > background(s) for Fedora Core now is the time to propose it. > > > > Ok, having had to fiddle-around with this kind of thing recently for > TV, I couldn't resist trying my hand at another "inoffensive" backdrop > image. Here's my effort (Forgive the angelfired website): > > http://www.angelfire.com/apes/rjfarquhar/FedoraCoreBkg/ > > Thanks, > > Moles. > > -- > Miles Goodhew, Senior Hacker > TransACT communications -- Fedora-desktop-list mailing list Fedora-desktop-list at redhat.com http://www.redhat.com/mailman/listinfo/fedora-desktop-list Best Regards Rubi Sutanto / Xsos www.forumponsel.com Yahoo! Messenger - Log on with your mobile phone! -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From dmalcolm at redhat.com Wed Oct 13 22:32:43 2004 From: dmalcolm at redhat.com (David Malcolm) Date: Wed, 13 Oct 2004 18:32:43 -0400 Subject: FC3 background In-Reply-To: <1097275364.22005.32.camel@dhcp83-91.boston.redhat.com> References: <1097275364.22005.32.camel@dhcp83-91.boston.redhat.com> Message-ID: <1097706763.24072.4.camel@cassandra.boston.redhat.com> On Fri, 2004-10-08 at 18:42 -0400, Diana Fong wrote: > The current Fedora background includes the version number, which does > not match the upcoming release. If you have simple, yet attractive, > background(s) for Fedora Core now is the time to propose it. > > Backgrounds should be 1600*1200 and not include the version number. Does this fulfill the "simple yet attractive" criteria? :-) http://people.redhat.com/dreed/Fedora-HEAD.png Dave Malcolm From feliciano.matias at free.fr Wed Oct 13 23:18:33 2004 From: feliciano.matias at free.fr (Matias =?ISO-8859-1?Q?F=E9liciano?=) Date: Thu, 14 Oct 2004 01:18:33 +0200 Subject: FC3 background In-Reply-To: <1097706763.24072.4.camel@cassandra.boston.redhat.com> References: <1097275364.22005.32.camel@dhcp83-91.boston.redhat.com> <1097706763.24072.4.camel@cassandra.boston.redhat.com> Message-ID: <1097709513.21836.24.camel@localhost.localdomain> Le mercredi 13 octobre 2004 ? 18:32 -0400, David Malcolm a ?crit : > On Fri, 2004-10-08 at 18:42 -0400, Diana Fong wrote: > > Backgrounds should be 1600*1200 and not include the version number. > > Does this fulfill the "simple yet attractive" criteria? :-) > http://people.redhat.com/dreed/Fedora-HEAD.png > Sorry, too big. Should be 1600*1200 only. > Dave Malcolm > -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: signature.asc Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 189 bytes Desc: Ceci est une partie de message num?riquement sign?e URL: From martinalderson at gmail.com Wed Oct 13 23:19:32 2004 From: martinalderson at gmail.com (Martin Alderson) Date: Thu, 14 Oct 2004 00:19:32 +0100 Subject: FC3 background In-Reply-To: <1097709513.21836.24.camel@localhost.localdomain> References: <1097275364.22005.32.camel@dhcp83-91.boston.redhat.com> <1097706763.24072.4.camel@cassandra.boston.redhat.com> <1097709513.21836.24.camel@localhost.localdomain> Message-ID: <3d86007804101316194cb51c05@mail.gmail.com> Because doing a quick resize to 1600x1200 is obviously very hard... On Thu, 14 Oct 2004 01:18:33 +0200, Matias F?liciano wrote: > Le mercredi 13 octobre 2004 ? 18:32 -0400, David Malcolm a ?crit : > > On Fri, 2004-10-08 at 18:42 -0400, Diana Fong wrote: > > > Backgrounds should be 1600*1200 and not include the version number. > > > > Does this fulfill the "simple yet attractive" criteria? :-) > > http://people.redhat.com/dreed/Fedora-HEAD.png > > > > Sorry, too big. Should be 1600*1200 only. > > > Dave Malcolm > > > > > -- > Fedora-desktop-list mailing list > Fedora-desktop-list at redhat.com > http://www.redhat.com/mailman/listinfo/fedora-desktop-list > > > -- Get Firefox - Popup blocking, tabbed browsing and great security: http://www.spreadfirefox.com/?q=affiliates&id=9&t=1 From djr at redhat.com Wed Oct 13 23:31:10 2004 From: djr at redhat.com (Daniel Reed) Date: Wed, 13 Oct 2004 19:31:10 -0400 (EDT) Subject: FC3 background In-Reply-To: <1097709513.21836.24.camel@localhost.localdomain> References: <1097275364.22005.32.camel@dhcp83-91.boston.redhat.com> <1097706763.24072.4.camel@cassandra.boston.redhat.com> <1097709513.21836.24.camel@localhost.localdomain> Message-ID: On 2004-10-14T01:18+0200, Matias F?liciano wrote: ) Le mercredi 13 octobre 2004 ?? 18:32 -0400, David Malcolm a ??crit : ) > On Fri, 2004-10-08 at 18:42 -0400, Diana Fong wrote: ) > > Backgrounds should be 1600*1200 and not include the version number. ) > Does this fulfill the "simple yet attractive" criteria? :-) ) > http://people.redhat.com/dreed/Fedora-HEAD.png ) Sorry, too big. Should be 1600*1200 only. A scaled version is available at: http://people.redhat.com/dreed/Fedora-HEAD-1600x1200.png The original is now: http://people.redhat.com/dreed/Fedora-HEAD-2592x1944.png Fedora-HEAD.png will take you to Fedora-HEAD-1600x1200.png. Sorry about the confusion. -- Daniel Reed http://people.redhat.com/djr/ Desktop and Cygwin From feliciano.matias at free.fr Wed Oct 13 23:34:57 2004 From: feliciano.matias at free.fr (Matias =?ISO-8859-1?Q?F=E9liciano?=) Date: Thu, 14 Oct 2004 01:34:57 +0200 Subject: FC3 background In-Reply-To: <3d86007804101316194cb51c05@mail.gmail.com> References: <1097275364.22005.32.camel@dhcp83-91.boston.redhat.com> <1097706763.24072.4.camel@cassandra.boston.redhat.com> <1097709513.21836.24.camel@localhost.localdomain> <3d86007804101316194cb51c05@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <1097710498.21836.30.camel@localhost.localdomain> Le jeudi 14 octobre 2004 ? 00:19 +0100, Martin Alderson a ?crit : > Because doing a quick resize to 1600x1200 is obviously very hard... > OK. Dave Malcolm background approved. Next, please. -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: signature.asc Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 189 bytes Desc: Ceci est une partie de message num?riquement sign?e URL: From j_mak3 at hotmail.com Thu Oct 14 03:42:37 2004 From: j_mak3 at hotmail.com (Jozsef Mak) Date: Wed, 13 Oct 2004 23:42:37 -0400 Subject: FC3 background Message-ID: Hi, These are my contributions to the wallpaper project. http://jozmak.heydo.com/wallpapers/screensavers.htm jozsef. mak >From: Diana Fong >Reply-To: Discussions about development for the Fedora desktop > >To: fedora-desktop-list at redhat.com >Subject: FC3 background >Date: Fri, 08 Oct 2004 18:42:44 -0400 > >The current Fedora background includes the version number, which does >not match the upcoming release. If you have simple, yet attractive, >background(s) for Fedora Core now is the time to propose it. > >Backgrounds should be 1600*1200 and not include the version number. > >~Diana >Visual Designer, Desktop Team > >-- >Fedora-desktop-list mailing list >Fedora-desktop-list at redhat.com >http://www.redhat.com/mailman/listinfo/fedora-desktop-list From thoenig at nouse.net Thu Oct 14 11:44:50 2004 From: thoenig at nouse.net (Timo Hoenig) Date: Thu, 14 Oct 2004 13:44:50 +0200 Subject: Current State of Linux Input Devices Message-ID: <1097754290.13767.30.camel@sunshine> Hi, I am carrying out a survey on the current state of Linux input devices. The results will have influence on my diploma thesis and the corresponding project which is called Input Abstraction Layer [1]. The survey is located at: http://ial.berlios.de/survey/ Anyone who uses Linux -- either on a desktop, a laptop or both -- is more than welcome to participate. I appreciate every single contribution to the survey. Best Regards, Timo [1] Input Abstraction Layer Web: http://developer.berlios.de/projects/ial/ SVN: http://svn.berlios.de/viewcvs/ial/ .............................................................. Timo H?nig ..................................................:: gpg ::... Fingerprint: 0998 0ACA A1D2 2612 4D96 DD8B E03F 084B B305 4066 From j_mak3 at hotmail.com Fri Oct 15 01:43:30 2004 From: j_mak3 at hotmail.com (Jozsef Mak) Date: Thu, 14 Oct 2004 21:43:30 -0400 Subject: FC3 background Message-ID: Hi, I modified slightly my second FC3 wallpaper. Check it our here: http://jozmak.heydo.com/wallpapers/screensavers.htm jozsef mak >From: Diana Fong >Reply-To: Discussions about development for the Fedora desktop > >To: fedora-desktop-list at redhat.com >Subject: FC3 background >Date: Fri, 08 Oct 2004 18:42:44 -0400 > >The current Fedora background includes the version number, which does >not match the upcoming release. If you have simple, yet attractive, >background(s) for Fedora Core now is the time to propose it. > >Backgrounds should be 1600*1200 and not include the version number. > >~Diana >Visual Designer, Desktop Team > >-- >Fedora-desktop-list mailing list >Fedora-desktop-list at redhat.com >http://www.redhat.com/mailman/listinfo/fedora-desktop-list From nicu_fedora at nicubunu.ro Fri Oct 15 06:11:11 2004 From: nicu_fedora at nicubunu.ro (Nicu Buculei) Date: Fri, 15 Oct 2004 09:11:11 +0300 Subject: FC3 background In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <416F69FF.7080304@nicubunu.ro> can i jump to a conclusion? i believe we need a place where to collect all those graphic creations, i think something modeled after Gnome Art (http://art.gnome.org) could be useful. this can be an independent community site (such as fedoraart.org) or a subdomain of an existing (official) website (such as art.fedora.redhat.com) -- nicu my personal Fedora artwork: http://fedora.nicubunu.ro/artwork Open Clip Art Library: http://www.openclipart.org From duffy at rpi.edu Fri Oct 15 21:02:55 2004 From: duffy at rpi.edu (=?ISO-8859-1?Q?M=E1ir=EDn_Duffy?=) Date: Fri, 15 Oct 2004 17:02:55 -0400 Subject: FC3 background Message-ID: <41703AFF.5040900@rpi.edu> Ooh, show and tell! Here's what I made!!! http://www.cs.rpi.edu/~duffym/fedora/fedora_wallpaper_1024.png http://www.cs.rpi.edu/~duffym/fedora/fedora_wallpaper_1600.png ~mo From mattdm at mattdm.org Fri Oct 15 21:09:30 2004 From: mattdm at mattdm.org (Matthew Miller) Date: Fri, 15 Oct 2004 17:09:30 -0400 Subject: FC3 background In-Reply-To: <41703AFF.5040900@rpi.edu> References: <41703AFF.5040900@rpi.edu> Message-ID: <20041015210930.GB30465@jadzia.bu.edu> On Fri, Oct 15, 2004 at 05:02:55PM -0400, M?ir?n Duffy wrote: > http://www.cs.rpi.edu/~duffym/fedora/fedora_wallpaper_1024.png > http://www.cs.rpi.edu/~duffym/fedora/fedora_wallpaper_1600.png Pretty, but it makes it look like there's cracks in the monitor. Or at least dirt on it. :) -- Matthew Miller mattdm at mattdm.org Boston University Linux ------> From kyrre at solution-forge.net Fri Oct 15 21:36:11 2004 From: kyrre at solution-forge.net (Kyrre Ness Sjobak) Date: Fri, 15 Oct 2004 23:36:11 +0200 Subject: FC3 background In-Reply-To: <20041015210930.GB30465@jadzia.bu.edu> References: <41703AFF.5040900@rpi.edu> <20041015210930.GB30465@jadzia.bu.edu> Message-ID: <1097876170.4252.22.camel@kyrre> fre, 15.10.2004 kl. 23.09 skrev Matthew Miller: > On Fri, Oct 15, 2004 at 05:02:55PM -0400, M?ir?n Duffy wrote: > > http://www.cs.rpi.edu/~duffym/fedora/fedora_wallpaper_1024.png > > http://www.cs.rpi.edu/~duffym/fedora/fedora_wallpaper_1600.png > > Pretty, but it makes it look like there's cracks in the monitor. Or at > least dirt on it. :) > Agreed. They where nice, but a bit "rough". > -- > Matthew Miller mattdm at mattdm.org > Boston University Linux ------> From Prime at myrealbox.com Sat Oct 16 03:04:18 2004 From: Prime at myrealbox.com (Donny) Date: Fri, 15 Oct 2004 23:04:18 -0400 Subject: FC 2 no GUI, help Message-ID: <1097895858.c4dbfa1cPrime@myrealbox.com> Hardware: Dell Optiplex GX260 (2yr old machine),Pentium4 @2Ghz(400MhzFSB),640MB DDR (266mhz)RAM,40GB HDD (ATA80),Imbedded intel VideoChip (64MB mem) AGP4x on PCI IRQ 9-with VGA connector), Monitor IBM 14R28 (ANCIENT;from the 1st run of the Aptiva lineup days) 13"viewable (.28dot pitch CRT-SVGA 1024x768max resolution @ 60hz). I've setup Dual Boot Grub as my Dual boot for Fedora Core 2 @ WinXP Pro SP1. file type is set to fat32 for WinXP ->I no issues using Grub to boot WinXP. Let me tell you my issue that I'm going BALD over (had peach fuzz before). 1)the above hardware works perfectly with WinXP ->although I can only run 800x600 res max with 16-bit at 60hz, nothing more (even before Fedora). 2)I tried following RedHas instructions to the letter 3x(deleted WinXP "D:\" drive partition then Automatic install-->couldn't do it. I then tried installing Fedora with Disk Druid GUI by giving the whole partion "\"(root)+swap file (last 2BG) -->didn't help. My 5th attempt allowed installation instructions to be followed yet each and everytime, all installations seemed to go without a hitch Except at the beginning with linux couldn't recognize my monitor gave the option of choosing another 3)Rescue Disc (#5) I tried "nprobe" and "skipddc" commands both, nothing work. 4)No matter what I try I still cannot get GUI.When I select Fedora Core (instead of WinXP) at the Grub Boot Loader I get loadup scripts telling me all things, one by one, everything is [ok] - in green letter; UNTIL near the very end; I get something about monitor+check Bios settings. I have the latest BIOS install for my Dell mobo. This is very fustrating, 4 guys at work know that I cannot stand Windblows, cannot afford a Mac, and tell me Linux is the way to go! 5)Ok I dropped my pride & researched and tried again to load Fedora Core2 just to see my old nemises. I logged in as root at the prompt and I typed "startx" I get: (EE) i810(0): No Video BIOS modes for chosen depth. (EE) Screen(s) found,but none have a usuable configuration Fatal Server error: no screens found Please consult the X.org Foundation Support at http://wikik.X.org for help please also check the log file at "/var/log/Xorg.0.log" for additional information XIO: fatal IO error 104 (connection reset by perr) on X server ":0.0" after 0 request (0 known processed" with 0 events remaining wheeew! I even typed: gedit /etc/inittab (hoping to change the id:3:initdefault to id:5:initdefault) and I get back: (gedit:2740)Gtk-WARNING **-cannot open display. Lastly I load Knoppix3.6 to view my HD /mnt/hda3/etc/inittab file and the setting id:5:initdefault is already present. last information Intel 82845G/GL/GE/PE/GV chip with Intel Video Bios v.2833 modes 800x600, high color 60hz. Can you please help me out or do I need to buy a new monitor?? From dalive at flashmail.com Sat Oct 16 04:51:28 2004 From: dalive at flashmail.com (DALive Editor) Date: Sat, 16 Oct 2004 00:51:28 -0400 Subject: FC3 background In-Reply-To: <416F69FF.7080304@nicubunu.ro> References: <416F69FF.7080304@nicubunu.ro> Message-ID: <4170A8D0.7060205@flashmail.com> Nicu Buculei wrote: > can i jump to a conclusion? > i believe we need a place where to collect all those graphic > creations, i think something modeled after Gnome Art > (http://art.gnome.org) could be useful. > this can be an independent community site (such as fedoraart.org) or a > subdomain of an existing (official) website (such as > art.fedora.redhat.com) > I would like to second this suggestion. I'm seeign some good art here, and I wouldn't want any of it to go to waste. From xsos1982 at yahoo.com.sg Sat Oct 16 14:01:57 2004 From: xsos1982 at yahoo.com.sg (Rubi Sutanto) Date: Sat, 16 Oct 2004 22:01:57 +0800 (CST) Subject: FC3 background In-Reply-To: <4170A8D0.7060205@flashmail.com> Message-ID: <20041016140157.22969.qmail@web52704.mail.yahoo.com> --- DALive Editor wrote: > Nicu Buculei wrote: > > > can i jump to a conclusion? > > i believe we need a place where to collect all > those graphic > > creations, i think something modeled after Gnome > Art > > (http://art.gnome.org) could be useful. > > this can be an independent community site (such as > fedoraart.org) or a > > subdomain of an existing (official) website (such > as > > art.fedora.redhat.com) > > > I would like to second this suggestion. I'm seeign > some good art here, > and I wouldn't want any of it to go to waste. > > -- > Fedora-desktop-list mailing list > Fedora-desktop-list at redhat.com > http://www.redhat.com/mailman/listinfo/fedora-desktop-list > Hello how about http://www.deviantart.com last month linspire os make a competition there to get new wallpaper for linspire 5.0 there is many talented designer there :D, it will be great.. ===== Best Regards Rubi Sutanto / Xsos www.forumponsel.com __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Log on to Messenger with your mobile phone! http://sg.messenger.yahoo.com From xsos1982 at yahoo.com.sg Sun Oct 17 01:58:56 2004 From: xsos1982 at yahoo.com.sg (Rubi Sutanto) Date: Sun, 17 Oct 2004 09:58:56 +0800 (CST) Subject: FC3 background In-Reply-To: <20041016140157.22969.qmail@web52704.mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <20041017015856.38201.qmail@web52707.mail.yahoo.com> Helo it is me again :D this is my 2nd contribution for fedora community http://www.deviantart.com/view/11487132/ i hope u guys like it :D, i think i will suitable with bluecurve theme thanks. --- Rubi Sutanto wrote: > --- DALive Editor wrote: > > Nicu Buculei wrote: > > > > > can i jump to a conclusion? > > > i believe we need a place where to collect all > > those graphic > > > creations, i think something modeled after Gnome > > Art > > > (http://art.gnome.org) could be useful. > > > this can be an independent community site (such > as > > fedoraart.org) or a > > > subdomain of an existing (official) website > (such > > as > > > art.fedora.redhat.com) > > > > > I would like to second this suggestion. I'm seeign > > some good art here, > > and I wouldn't want any of it to go to waste. > > > > -- > > Fedora-desktop-list mailing list > > Fedora-desktop-list at redhat.com > > > http://www.redhat.com/mailman/listinfo/fedora-desktop-list > > > > Hello how about http://www.deviantart.com > last month linspire os make a competition there to > get > new wallpaper for linspire 5.0 > > there is many talented designer there :D, it will be > great.. > > ===== > Best Regards > > > Rubi Sutanto / Xsos > www.forumponsel.com > > __________________________________________________ > Do You Yahoo!? > Log on to Messenger with your mobile phone! > http://sg.messenger.yahoo.com > > -- > Fedora-desktop-list mailing list > Fedora-desktop-list at redhat.com > http://www.redhat.com/mailman/listinfo/fedora-desktop-list > ===== Best Regards Rubi Sutanto / Xsos www.forumponsel.com __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Log on to Messenger with your mobile phone! http://sg.messenger.yahoo.com From pbhat at ongc.net Wed Oct 20 21:05:59 2004 From: pbhat at ongc.net (Parameshwara Bhat) Date: Wed, 20 Oct 2004 14:05:59 -0700 Subject: Kernel > 2.6.5 - Serial Mouse Bug Message-ID: Hello list, I think I have a bug on hand. I want confirmation to file it as a bug. I recntly upgraded my computers at office and home to FC2 from FC1. At office, as smooth as it could be. At home too, it was perfect except for one major problem in FC2 not able to drive my Serial mouse. This is an old Celeron 460 Mhz computer with which FC1 coped admirably and had detected my serial mouse at installation. FC2 failed to detect my serial mouse and when properly chosen in subsequent screens, it failed to drive it. FC2 kept my old kernel 2.4.22-1.2194.nptl while installing a new 2.6.5 kernel. I have detected a pattern in mouse not working when I boot in 2.6.5 and working always when I boot in 2.4.22 series. This pattern is further reinforced by what happens with Knoppix - 3.6 Live CD. Whenever I chose 2.6 seies kernel, Knoppix fails to drive my mouse, when I let be the default kernel 2.4.2x , it never fails to detect and drive mouse. I have also run SUSE 9.1 with kernel 2.6.4-52 with which Serial mouse is detected and works fine. It seems the bug is in kernel at & above 2.6.5. Is there anubody else who has experienced something similar? I want to confirm before filing bug. Parameshwara Bhat -- Using Opera's revolutionary e-mail client: http://www.opera.com/m2/ From fedora at wir-sind-cool.org Thu Oct 21 08:51:53 2004 From: fedora at wir-sind-cool.org (Michael Schwendt) Date: Thu, 21 Oct 2004 10:51:53 +0200 Subject: Kernel > 2.6.5 - Serial Mouse Bug In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <20041021105153.0d9c6148.fedora@wir-sind-cool.org> On Wed, 20 Oct 2004 14:05:59 -0700, Parameshwara Bhat wrote: > Hello list, > > I think I have a bug on hand. I want confirmation to file it as a bug. > > I recntly upgraded my computers at office and home to FC2 from FC1. At > office, as smooth as it could be. At home too, it was perfect except for > one major problem in FC2 not able to drive my Serial mouse. This is an old > Celeron 460 Mhz computer with which FC1 coped admirably and had detected > my serial mouse at installation. FC2 failed to detect my serial mouse and > when properly chosen in subsequent screens, it failed to drive it. > > FC2 kept my old kernel 2.4.22-1.2194.nptl while installing a new 2.6.5 > kernel. I have detected a pattern in mouse not working when I boot in > 2.6.5 and working always when I boot in 2.4.22 series. > > This pattern is further reinforced by what happens with Knoppix - 3.6 Live > CD. Whenever I chose 2.6 seies kernel, Knoppix fails to drive my mouse, > when I let be the default kernel 2.4.2x , it never fails to detect and > drive mouse. > > I have also run SUSE 9.1 with kernel 2.6.4-52 with which Serial mouse is > detected and works fine. > > It seems the bug is in kernel at & above 2.6.5. > > Is there anubody else who has experienced something similar? I want to > confirm before filing bug. More info here: https://bugzilla.redhat.com/bugzilla/show_bug.cgi?id=115513 There's another one somewhere about serial mice after installation. Keep service gpm enabled to activate your serial mouse in X. chkconfig --level 2345 gpm on service gpm start -- Fedora Core release 2 (Tettnang) - Linux 2.6.8-1.541 loadavg: 0.07 0.11 0.07 From kyrre at solution-forge.net Thu Oct 21 19:13:26 2004 From: kyrre at solution-forge.net (Kyrre Ness Sjobak) Date: Thu, 21 Oct 2004 21:13:26 +0200 Subject: Kernel > 2.6.5 - Serial Mouse Bug In-Reply-To: <20041021105153.0d9c6148.fedora@wir-sind-cool.org> References: <20041021105153.0d9c6148.fedora@wir-sind-cool.org> Message-ID: <1098386005.4125.3.camel@kyrre> Hmm.. i have a computer, which has a ps/2 and a serial trackball connected. Both work. 2.6.8 kernel. tor, 21.10.2004 kl. 10.51 skrev Michael Schwendt: > On Wed, 20 Oct 2004 14:05:59 -0700, Parameshwara Bhat wrote: > > > Hello list, > > > > I think I have a bug on hand. I want confirmation to file it as a bug. > > > > I recntly upgraded my computers at office and home to FC2 from FC1. At > > office, as smooth as it could be. At home too, it was perfect except for > > one major problem in FC2 not able to drive my Serial mouse. This is an old > > Celeron 460 Mhz computer with which FC1 coped admirably and had detected > > my serial mouse at installation. FC2 failed to detect my serial mouse and > > when properly chosen in subsequent screens, it failed to drive it. > > > > FC2 kept my old kernel 2.4.22-1.2194.nptl while installing a new 2.6.5 > > kernel. I have detected a pattern in mouse not working when I boot in > > 2.6.5 and working always when I boot in 2.4.22 series. > > > > This pattern is further reinforced by what happens with Knoppix - 3.6 Live > > CD. Whenever I chose 2.6 seies kernel, Knoppix fails to drive my mouse, > > when I let be the default kernel 2.4.2x , it never fails to detect and > > drive mouse. > > > > I have also run SUSE 9.1 with kernel 2.6.4-52 with which Serial mouse is > > detected and works fine. > > > > It seems the bug is in kernel at & above 2.6.5. > > > > Is there anubody else who has experienced something similar? I want to > > confirm before filing bug. > > More info here: > https://bugzilla.redhat.com/bugzilla/show_bug.cgi?id=115513 > > There's another one somewhere about serial mice after installation. > Keep service gpm enabled to activate your serial mouse in X. > > chkconfig --level 2345 gpm on > service gpm start > > -- > Fedora Core release 2 (Tettnang) - Linux 2.6.8-1.541 > loadavg: 0.07 0.11 0.07