From cimi86 at alice.it Tue Jan 2 20:11:40 2007 From: cimi86 at alice.it (Andrea Cimitan) Date: Tue, 2 Jan 2007 21:11:40 +0100 Subject: New Fedora GTK Theme In-Reply-To: <1163685797.14301.29.camel@golem.boston.devel.redhat.com> References: <20061111171720.7f6c7e87@hydra.cimi.homelinux.net> <1163654373.3554.8.camel@localhost.localdomain> <20061116105649.6b88fffb@hydra.cimi.homelinux.net> <1163680262.14301.15.camel@golem.boston.devel.redhat.com> <20061116133651.608f2d31@hydra.cimi.homelinux.net> <1163685797.14301.29.camel@golem.boston.devel.redhat.com> Message-ID: <20070102211140.1caf3893@hydra.cimi.homelinux.net> Il giorno Thu, 16 Nov 2006 09:03:16 -0500 Matthias Clasen ha scritto: > > - While these knobs to tweak are certainly nice, the one thing that > most people want to tweak in a theme are the colors. I would > personally be much more interested in themes which make use of > the new symbolic color mechanism in GTK+ 2.10 to create > "recolorable" themes. I've fixed requested bugs of "exported symbols" and gtk symbolic colors. Everything is ok now. -- Cimi - Andrea Cimitan http://cimi.netsons.org From fngdr at yahoo.com.cn Sat Jan 6 10:45:26 2007 From: fngdr at yahoo.com.cn (da feng) Date: Sat, 6 Jan 2007 18:45:26 +0800 (CST) Subject: hp note book with nvidia geforce go 6150 's problem Message-ID: <276413.57038.qm@web92015.mail.cnb.yahoo.com> hello, I find fedora 5 has a problem with geforce go 6150 graphics card. after screen saver is on or during boot up the desktop sometimes looks rusty, which means that the color is in a mess. But after reboot X, the problems goes. And sometimes the cursor is lost, then it need reboot. So I don't know what is wrong, may X has some bugs. --------------------------------- Mp3???-??????? -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From gmureddu at prodigy.net.mx Sun Jan 7 05:47:15 2007 From: gmureddu at prodigy.net.mx (Gian Paolo Mureddu) Date: Sat, 06 Jan 2007 23:47:15 -0600 Subject: hp note book with nvidia geforce go 6150 's problem In-Reply-To: <276413.57038.qm@web92015.mail.cnb.yahoo.com> References: <276413.57038.qm@web92015.mail.cnb.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <45A08963.4030104@prodigy.net.mx> da feng escribi?: > hello, > I find fedora 5 has a problem with geforce go 6150 graphics card. > after screen saver is on or during boot up the desktop sometimes looks > rusty, which means that the color is in a mess. But after reboot X, > the problems goes. And sometimes the cursor is lost, then it need > reboot. So I don't know what is wrong, may X has some bugs. > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------ > Mp3???-??????? > Are you using the nVidia closed source drivers? If so, try disabling Hardwre Cursor in your Xorg.conf file, (Option HWCurosr "False", in the Device section, at the end) and try with that. If you are not running the nVidia driver, what driver are you using? From fngdr at yahoo.com.cn Mon Jan 8 14:34:47 2007 From: fngdr at yahoo.com.cn (da feng) Date: Mon, 8 Jan 2007 22:34:47 +0800 (CST) Subject: hp note book with nvidia geforce go 6150 's problem In-Reply-To: <45A08963.4030104@prodigy.net.mx> Message-ID: <102336.82750.qm@web92010.mail.cnb.yahoo.com> I use kernel-2.6.18-1.2257.fc5, with the kernel's driver. Nvidia also has a driver installer, but last time during compiling it complained something about xorg, and finally failed to start after installation. So I reinstalled the system, and don't use it anymore. Gian Paolo Mureddu ??? da feng escribi?: > hello, > I find fedora 5 has a problem with geforce go 6150 graphics card. > after screen saver is on or during boot up the desktop sometimes looks > rusty, which means that the color is in a mess. But after reboot X, > the problems goes. And sometimes the cursor is lost, then it need > reboot. So I don't know what is wrong, may X has some bugs. > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------ > Mp3???-??????? > Are you using the nVidia closed source drivers? If so, try disabling Hardwre Cursor in your Xorg.conf file, (Option HWCurosr "False", in the Device section, at the end) and try with that. If you are not running the nVidia driver, what driver are you using? -- Fedora-desktop-list mailing list Fedora-desktop-list at redhat.com https://www.redhat.com/mailman/listinfo/fedora-desktop-list __________________________________________________ ??????????????? http://cn.mail.yahoo.com -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From jkeating at redhat.com Thu Jan 11 22:44:38 2007 From: jkeating at redhat.com (Jesse Keating) Date: Thu, 11 Jan 2007 17:44:38 -0500 Subject: Starting point for package list for Fedora 7 Desktop spin Message-ID: <200701111744.38417.jkeating@redhat.com> http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Releases/FeatureFedoraDesktop This is a first rough draft at what packages to include in the Desktop spin. Please note that for the most part we're trying to list top level packages as the compose tool can depresolve from there. Many of the packages listed I don't necessarily know what they do, especially those in and so I'd be happy to get some thought on those. There is no marking what is default/manditory/optional, nor any real ideas as to what Categories exists and just some guesses at group names. Also we'll need the language groups too. I may have an iso set composed from this package list at some point soon to share, not sure about getting it external yet. I also have this in comps format, which is going to be how we manage this for the composes, so I'm going to put up a file somewhere that more people can gain access to and munge there rather than me having to translate from email/wiki comments into comps languages. But for now, here is a flatish list. (Note, without translations, we're about 1.5CDs big with this list) (not visible) SysvInit authconfig basesystem bash coreutils cpio e2fsprogs ed fedora-logos fedora-release file filesystem glibc grub hdparm initscripts iproute iprutils iputils kbd kudzu libgcc libtermcap passwd policycoreutils prelink procps readline rootfiles rpm selinux-policy-targetted setserial setup shadow-utils sysklogd termcap util-linux vim-minimal (visible) NetworkManager NetworkManager-vpnc acl acpid anacron apmd cpuspeed at authconfig autofs bluez-utils ccid coolkey crash crontabs dmraid diskdumputils dos2unix dosfstools dvd+rw-utils dump (gnome-)eject ? gnome-power-manager (does this go with Desktop instead?) gpart gnupg gutenprint lftp logrotate logwatch (or replacement?) man-pages man mcelog mdadm mtools nfs-utils openssh-server openssh-clients pam_keyring pam_pkcs11 pam_smb parted redhat-lsb ? rsync setarch which yum yum-updatesd abiword evince glabels gobby gnumeric inkscape fontforge openoffice.org (?) banshee/rhythmbox/muine (pick one?) f-spot totem ekiga evolution evolution-connector evolution-webcal firefox gaim gnome-blog/gossip transmission atomix/lmarbles enigma frozen-bubble/monkey-bubble neverball ppracer foobillard celestia ? gweled ? crack-attack NetworkManager-gnome bug-buddy control-center deskbar-applet desktop-printing (does gutenprint replace this?) file-roller gconf-editor gedit gnome-applets gnome-audio gnome-backgrounds gnome-bluetooth gnome-keyring-manager gnome-media gnome-panel gnome-pilot gnome-pilot-conduits gnome-screensaver gnome-session gnome-system-monitor gnome-terminal gnome-themes gnome-user-docs gnome-user-share gnome-utils gnome-vfs2-smb gnome-volume-manager gok gthumb gtk2-engines hal-gnome im-chooser metacity compiz nautilus nautilus-cd-burner nautilus-open-terminal nautilus-sendto nautilus-sendto-bluetooth notification-daemon orca tomboy vino yelp bitmap-fonts dejavu-lgc-fonts desktop-backgrounds-basic gdm glx-utils rhgb pirut switchdesk synaptics system-config-date system-config-network system-config-printer system-config-services system-config-soundcard system-config-users vnc-server xorg-x11-drivers xorg-x11-xfs xorg-x11-xinit xorg-x11-server-Xorg xorg-x11-fonts-75dpi xorg-x11-fonts-100dpi xorg-x11-fonts-ISO8859-1-75dpi xorg-x11-fonts-ISO8859-1-100dpi xorg-x11-fonts-misc xorg-x11-fonts-truetype xorg-x11-fonts-Type1 xorg-x11-server-Xnest xorg-x11-server-Xvfb xorg-x11-apps xorg-x11-twm xorg-x11-xauth xorg-x11-resutils xorg-x11-xfs-utils xorg-x11-xsm xterm -- Jesse Keating Release Engineer: Fedora -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 189 bytes Desc: not available URL: From stevelist at silverorange.com Thu Jan 11 23:13:10 2007 From: stevelist at silverorange.com (Steven Garrity) Date: Thu, 11 Jan 2007 19:13:10 -0400 Subject: Starting point for package list for Fedora 7 Desktop spin In-Reply-To: <200701111744.38417.jkeating@redhat.com> References: <200701111744.38417.jkeating@redhat.com> Message-ID: <45A6C486.1070007@silverorange.com> A few quite thoughts on the category: As a default, I'd like to see *either* OpenOffice.org, or the equivalent Gnome apps (Abiword, Gnumeric, etc). Since the OpenDocument format is doing so well, I'd like to see Fedora (as a prominent) distribution have strong support for it. Hence, I think OpenOffice.org is the best choice (for now). FontForge - I would suggest that we don't need an "outline font editor" by default. I work as a professional designer and I've never used font-editing software. Gobby - It's very cool, but it is another text editor (albeit one with a significant twist). I think collaborative editing would be worth included as plugins to Gedit or AbiWord, but I'm not sure it justifies another text editor. Also, I'd suggest Rhythmbox as the choice of music player - it's solid and has been improving a lot in recent releases. Cheers, Steven Garrity Jesse Keating wrote: > http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Releases/FeatureFedoraDesktop > > This is a first rough draft at what packages to include in the Desktop spin. > Please note that for the most part we're trying to list top level packages as > the compose tool can depresolve from there. Many of the packages listed I > don't necessarily know what they do, especially those in and so > I'd be happy to get some thought on those. > > There is no marking what is default/manditory/optional, nor any real ideas as > to what Categories exists and just some guesses at group names. Also we'll > need the language groups too. > > I may have an iso set composed from this package list at some point soon to > share, not sure about getting it external yet. > > I also have this in comps format, which is going to be how we manage this for > the composes, so I'm going to put up a file somewhere that more people can > gain access to and munge there rather than me having to translate from > email/wiki comments into comps languages. But for now, here is a flatish > list. (Note, without translations, we're about 1.5CDs big with this list) > > (not visible) > SysvInit > authconfig > basesystem > bash > coreutils > cpio > e2fsprogs > ed > fedora-logos > fedora-release > file > filesystem > glibc > grub > hdparm > initscripts > iproute > iprutils > iputils > kbd > kudzu > libgcc > libtermcap > passwd > policycoreutils > prelink > procps > readline > rootfiles > rpm > selinux-policy-targetted > setserial > setup > shadow-utils > sysklogd > termcap > util-linux > vim-minimal > > (visible) > NetworkManager > NetworkManager-vpnc > acl > acpid > anacron > apmd > cpuspeed > at > authconfig > autofs > bluez-utils > ccid > coolkey > crash > crontabs > dmraid > diskdumputils > dos2unix > dosfstools > dvd+rw-utils > dump > (gnome-)eject ? > gnome-power-manager (does this go with Desktop instead?) > gpart > gnupg > gutenprint > lftp > logrotate > logwatch (or replacement?) > man-pages > man > mcelog > mdadm > mtools > nfs-utils > openssh-server > openssh-clients > pam_keyring > pam_pkcs11 > pam_smb > parted > redhat-lsb ? > rsync > setarch > which > yum > yum-updatesd > > > abiword > evince > glabels > gobby > gnumeric > inkscape > fontforge > openoffice.org (?) > > > banshee/rhythmbox/muine (pick one?) > f-spot > totem > > > ekiga > evolution > evolution-connector > evolution-webcal > firefox > gaim > gnome-blog/gossip > transmission > > > atomix/lmarbles > enigma > frozen-bubble/monkey-bubble > neverball > ppracer > foobillard > celestia ? > gweled ? > crack-attack > > > NetworkManager-gnome > bug-buddy > control-center > deskbar-applet > desktop-printing (does gutenprint replace this?) > file-roller > gconf-editor > gedit > gnome-applets > gnome-audio > gnome-backgrounds > gnome-bluetooth > gnome-keyring-manager > gnome-media > gnome-panel > gnome-pilot > gnome-pilot-conduits > gnome-screensaver > gnome-session > gnome-system-monitor > gnome-terminal > gnome-themes > gnome-user-docs > gnome-user-share > gnome-utils > gnome-vfs2-smb > gnome-volume-manager > gok > gthumb > gtk2-engines > hal-gnome > im-chooser > metacity > compiz > nautilus > nautilus-cd-burner > nautilus-open-terminal > nautilus-sendto > nautilus-sendto-bluetooth > notification-daemon > orca > tomboy > vino > yelp > > > bitmap-fonts > dejavu-lgc-fonts > desktop-backgrounds-basic > gdm > glx-utils > rhgb > pirut > switchdesk > synaptics > system-config-date > system-config-network > system-config-printer > system-config-services > system-config-soundcard > system-config-users > vnc-server > xorg-x11-drivers > xorg-x11-xfs > xorg-x11-xinit > xorg-x11-server-Xorg > xorg-x11-fonts-75dpi > xorg-x11-fonts-100dpi > xorg-x11-fonts-ISO8859-1-75dpi > xorg-x11-fonts-ISO8859-1-100dpi > xorg-x11-fonts-misc > xorg-x11-fonts-truetype > xorg-x11-fonts-Type1 > xorg-x11-server-Xnest > xorg-x11-server-Xvfb > xorg-x11-apps > xorg-x11-twm > xorg-x11-xauth > xorg-x11-resutils > xorg-x11-xfs-utils > xorg-x11-xsm > xterm > > From david at lovesunix.net Thu Jan 11 23:54:22 2007 From: david at lovesunix.net (David Nielsen) Date: Fri, 12 Jan 2007 00:54:22 +0100 Subject: Starting point for package list for Fedora 7 Desktop spin In-Reply-To: <45A6C486.1070007@silverorange.com> References: <200701111744.38417.jkeating@redhat.com> <45A6C486.1070007@silverorange.com> Message-ID: <1168559662.26169.71.camel@dawkins> tor, 11 01 2007 kl. 19:13 -0400, skrev Steven Garrity: > A few quite thoughts on the category: > > As a default, I'd like to see *either* OpenOffice.org, or the equivalent > Gnome apps (Abiword, Gnumeric, etc). Since the OpenDocument format is > doing so well, I'd like to see Fedora (as a prominent) distribution have > strong support for it. Hence, I think OpenOffice.org is the best choice > (for now). OpenOffice is the (some what) sane choice, personally I use GNOME Office but the lack of a presenter application really is the deciding factor for me. > Also, I'd suggest Rhythmbox as the choice of music player - it's solid > and has been improving a lot in recent releases. I'll admit I'm really hooked on the Banshee 0.11.x series, if an update is made to bring the Extras packages up to date I would like to at least have that considered as the music player. Their podcast and iRadio support especially is superior to anything I've seen in other players. - David -- "Ridicule is the only weapon that can be used against unintelligible propositions. Ideas must be distinct before reason can act upon them.? -Thomas Jefferson -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: signature.asc Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 189 bytes Desc: Dette er en digitalt underskrevet brevdel URL: From jkeating at redhat.com Fri Jan 12 02:14:58 2007 From: jkeating at redhat.com (Jesse Keating) Date: Thu, 11 Jan 2007 21:14:58 -0500 Subject: Starting point for package list for Fedora 7 Desktop spin In-Reply-To: <45A6C486.1070007@silverorange.com> References: <200701111744.38417.jkeating@redhat.com> <45A6C486.1070007@silverorange.com> Message-ID: <200701112114.58861.jkeating@redhat.com> On Thursday 11 January 2007 18:13, Steven Garrity wrote: > FontForge - I would suggest that we don't need an "outline font editor" > by default. I work as a professional designer and I've never used > font-editing software. I could definitely see this not being included. > Gobby - It's very cool, but it is another text editor (albeit one with a > significant twist). I think collaborative editing would be worth > included as plugins to Gedit or AbiWord, but I'm not sure it justifies > another text editor. Until such time as these grow such plugins, Gobby is the most compelling choice, so I'd rather see it stay in. (We use it in meetings a lot) -- Jesse Keating Release Engineer: Fedora -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 189 bytes Desc: not available URL: From mclasen at redhat.com Fri Jan 12 02:45:03 2007 From: mclasen at redhat.com (Matthias Clasen) Date: Thu, 11 Jan 2007 21:45:03 -0500 Subject: Starting point for package list for Fedora 7 Desktop spin In-Reply-To: <200701111744.38417.jkeating@redhat.com> References: <200701111744.38417.jkeating@redhat.com> Message-ID: <1168569903.2363.1.camel@localhost.localdomain> Hey Jesse, it seems your list is missing quite a few of the current core desktop packages like gnome-games or epiphany. That was certainly not my intention when I started a list that focused on extras additions... Matthias From jkeating at redhat.com Fri Jan 12 02:48:09 2007 From: jkeating at redhat.com (Jesse Keating) Date: Thu, 11 Jan 2007 21:48:09 -0500 Subject: Starting point for package list for Fedora 7 Desktop spin In-Reply-To: <1168569903.2363.1.camel@localhost.localdomain> References: <200701111744.38417.jkeating@redhat.com> <1168569903.2363.1.camel@localhost.localdomain> Message-ID: <200701112148.09862.jkeating@redhat.com> On Thursday 11 January 2007 21:45, Matthias Clasen wrote: > Hey Jesse, > > it seems your list is missing quite a few of the current core desktop > packages like gnome-games or epiphany. That was certainly not my > intention when I started a list that focused on extras additions... Ah. Well, it is a /starting/ point (: What I want to do is put the comps file somewhere in SCM or in the wiki (probably the wiki for now, since its easier to get people to edit it there) so that we can start piling on. -- Jesse Keating Release Engineer: Fedora -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 189 bytes Desc: not available URL: From mclasen at redhat.com Fri Jan 12 02:55:54 2007 From: mclasen at redhat.com (Matthias Clasen) Date: Thu, 11 Jan 2007 21:55:54 -0500 Subject: Starting point for package list for Fedora 7 Desktop spin In-Reply-To: <200701111744.38417.jkeating@redhat.com> References: <200701111744.38417.jkeating@redhat.com> Message-ID: <1168570555.2363.8.camel@localhost.localdomain> On Thu, 2007-01-11 at 17:44 -0500, Jesse Keating wrote: > gnome-power-manager (does this go with Desktop instead?) It should go next to NetworkManager-gnome, imo > fontforge I agree with others that fontforge seems a bit too specialized. > openoffice.org (?) No ?, imo. > desktop-printing (does gutenprint replace this?) No, this is eggcups, gutenprint is drivers, afaik Continuing with the "don't drop core desktop packages theme", here is a somewhat incomplete list of core desktop packages that I happen to have checked out here (many of these will probably be dragged in by dependencies anyway): alacarte atk at-spi compiz control-center dasher dbus-python desktop-printing eog epiphany evince evolution evolution-data-server fedora-logos file-roller gail gaim gamin gcalctool GConf2 gdk-pixbuf gdm gedit glade2 glib glib2 gnome-applets gnome-desktop gnome-games gnome-icon-theme gnome-keyring gnome-mag gnome-media gnome-menus gnome-nettool gnome-panel gnome-python gnome-python2 gnome-screensaver gnome-session gnome-system-monitor gnome-themes gnome-utils gnome-vfs2 gnome-volume-manager gstreamer gstreamer-plugins-base gstreamer-plugins-good gthumb gtk+ gtk2 gtk2-engines gtk-doc gtksourceview htmlview intltool libbonobo libbonoboui libgdiplus libgnome libgnomekbd libgnomeui libgpod libnotify librsvg2 libsoup libwnck libxklavier metacity nautilus nautilus-cd-burner nautilus-sendto ORBit2 orca pango poppler pwlib pygtk2 redhat-artwork redhat-logos redhat-menus rhgb rhythmbox scrollkeeper sound-juicer system-config-display system-config-kickstart thunderbird tomboy totem tsclient vino vorbis-tools xchat xorg-x11-server yelp zenity From bpepple at fedoraproject.org Fri Jan 12 03:12:12 2007 From: bpepple at fedoraproject.org (Brian Pepple) Date: Thu, 11 Jan 2007 22:12:12 -0500 Subject: Starting point for package list for Fedora 7 Desktop spin In-Reply-To: <200701111744.38417.jkeating@redhat.com> References: <200701111744.38417.jkeating@redhat.com> Message-ID: <1168571532.29581.13.camel@Chuck> On Thu, 2007-01-11 at 17:44 -0500, Jesse Keating wrote: > http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Releases/FeatureFedoraDesktop > openoffice.org (?) On a personal level I would like to see the GNOME Office suite used, but we should probably use OpenOffice.org since it's comparable to Firefox in people's expectations on what should be included as default. > > banshee/rhythmbox/muine (pick one?) Rhythmbox. > gnome-blog/gossip These are both packages that I maintain in FE, but functionality-wise they are different. Gossip is a IM-client (currently only supporting Jabber), and Gnome-Blog is a application that allows you to post blog entries. Personally, I would rather see Gossip included instead of Gaim, but since it only supports Jabber currently, most people would probably prefer Gaim. /B -- Brian Pepple gpg --keyserver pgp.mit.edu --recv-keys 810CC15E BD5E 6F9E 8688 E668 8F5B CBDE 326A E936 810C C15E -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: signature.asc Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 189 bytes Desc: This is a digitally signed message part URL: From jkeating at redhat.com Fri Jan 12 03:17:33 2007 From: jkeating at redhat.com (Jesse Keating) Date: Thu, 11 Jan 2007 22:17:33 -0500 Subject: Starting point for package list for Fedora 7 Desktop spin In-Reply-To: <1168571532.29581.13.camel@Chuck> References: <200701111744.38417.jkeating@redhat.com> <1168571532.29581.13.camel@Chuck> Message-ID: <200701112217.33653.jkeating@redhat.com> On Thursday 11 January 2007 22:12, Brian Pepple wrote: > > openoffice.org (?) > > On a personal level I would like to see the GNOME Office suite used, but > we should probably use OpenOffice.org since it's comparable to Firefox > in people's expectations on what should be included as default. Yea, I think I'm in the camp of having oo.org suite as the default, the gnome office suite as optional, nothing as manditory, so you could uncheck one in favor of the other. Duplicate functionality is OK in this space I think. > > > > banshee/rhythmbox/muine (pick one?) > > Rhythmbox. > > > gnome-blog/gossip > > These are both packages that I maintain in FE, but functionality-wise > they are different. Gossip is a IM-client (currently only supporting > Jabber), and Gnome-Blog is a application that allows you to post blog > entries. > > Personally, I would rather see Gossip included instead of Gaim, but > since it only supports Jabber currently, most people would probably > prefer Gaim. Thanks for the clarification. Most likely we'll go with gaim, and gnome-blog. -- Jesse Keating Release Engineer: Fedora -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 189 bytes Desc: not available URL: From notting at redhat.com Fri Jan 12 04:04:36 2007 From: notting at redhat.com (Bill Nottingham) Date: Thu, 11 Jan 2007 23:04:36 -0500 Subject: Starting point for package list for Fedora 7 Desktop spin In-Reply-To: <1168570555.2363.8.camel@localhost.localdomain> References: <200701111744.38417.jkeating@redhat.com> <1168570555.2363.8.camel@localhost.localdomain> Message-ID: <20070112040436.GB24696@nostromo.devel.redhat.com> Matthias Clasen (mclasen at redhat.com) said: > > openoffice.org (?) > > No ?, imo. So, either we go with no/crappy presentation program, or we add a CD in size. Is there an option 3? > glib Um, why? Is anything we ship really going to need this? (Similarly, gtk+, gdk-pixbuf, gnome-libs) Bill From notting at redhat.com Fri Jan 12 04:10:18 2007 From: notting at redhat.com (Bill Nottingham) Date: Thu, 11 Jan 2007 23:10:18 -0500 Subject: Starting point for package list for Fedora 7 Desktop spin In-Reply-To: <200701112217.33653.jkeating@redhat.com> References: <200701111744.38417.jkeating@redhat.com> <1168571532.29581.13.camel@Chuck> <200701112217.33653.jkeating@redhat.com> Message-ID: <20070112041018.GC24696@nostromo.devel.redhat.com> Jesse Keating (jkeating at redhat.com) said: > Thanks for the clarification. Most likely we'll go with gaim, and gnome-blog. So, just as a point of reference - - for the desktop we're suggesting that we just ship gaim, not gossip? - for the KDE CD, they are suggesting adding multiple things *on top of* the base KDE set (konversation + ksirc? gimp + krita, etc) Different strokes for different folks, of course, but it is a contrast. Things I think we may want to ship: - gimp - inkscape - gnucash Bill From jkeating at redhat.com Fri Jan 12 04:19:25 2007 From: jkeating at redhat.com (Jesse Keating) Date: Thu, 11 Jan 2007 23:19:25 -0500 Subject: Starting point for package list for Fedora 7 Desktop spin In-Reply-To: <20070112041018.GC24696@nostromo.devel.redhat.com> References: <200701111744.38417.jkeating@redhat.com> <200701112217.33653.jkeating@redhat.com> <20070112041018.GC24696@nostromo.devel.redhat.com> Message-ID: <200701112319.29238.jkeating@redhat.com> On Thursday 11 January 2007 23:10, Bill Nottingham wrote: > So, just as a point of reference - > > - for the desktop we're suggesting that we just ship gaim, not gossip? > - for the KDE CD, they are suggesting adding multiple things *on top > ? of* the base KDE set (konversation + ksirc? gimp + krita, etc) > > Different strokes for different folks, of course, but it is a contrast. > > Things I think we may want to ship: > > - gimp > - inkscape > - gnucash Yeah, i could see the three above. Personally I hoped that we could finally make the Desktop spin where we pick the sane defaults to include on the CD, everything else could be gotten through the remote repo. We've wanted to do this for years, but just haven't had the setup/methodolgy of doing it without pissing off people like... KDE users. As to whats going on with the KDE spin, well I'm letting that happen naturally and driven by the KDE sig. And yeah, things are getting a little silly over there, but who knows, once they start looking at CD sizes, they might start thinking harder about what they're tossing in the mix. -- Jesse Keating Release Engineer: Fedora -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 189 bytes Desc: not available URL: From mclasen at redhat.com Fri Jan 12 04:27:35 2007 From: mclasen at redhat.com (Matthias Clasen) Date: Thu, 11 Jan 2007 23:27:35 -0500 Subject: Starting point for package list for Fedora 7 Desktop spin In-Reply-To: <20070112040436.GB24696@nostromo.devel.redhat.com> References: <200701111744.38417.jkeating@redhat.com> <1168570555.2363.8.camel@localhost.localdomain> <20070112040436.GB24696@nostromo.devel.redhat.com> Message-ID: <1168576058.5680.4.camel@localhost.localdomain> On Thu, 2007-01-11 at 23:04 -0500, Bill Nottingham wrote: > Matthias Clasen (mclasen at redhat.com) said: > > > openoffice.org (?) > > > > No ?, imo. > > So, either we go with no/crappy presentation program, or we add a CD > in size. Is there an option 3? I don't think size is the no.1 factor here. And leaving out all the server-only packages will still allow the Desktop spin to be smaller than the full FC6 package set, I'd hope. > > glib > > Um, why? Is anything we ship really going to need this? (Similarly, > gtk+, gdk-pixbuf, gnome-libs) Ah, sorry. that was an oversight. I did not want to advocate including the gnome1 stack. I just happened to have those checked out locally, since I had to multilib-fix them today... Matthias From besfahbo at redhat.com Thu Jan 11 23:50:17 2007 From: besfahbo at redhat.com (Behdad Esfahbod) Date: Thu, 11 Jan 2007 18:50:17 -0500 Subject: Starting point for package list for Fedora 7 Desktop spin In-Reply-To: <45A6C486.1070007@silverorange.com> References: <200701111744.38417.jkeating@redhat.com> <45A6C486.1070007@silverorange.com> Message-ID: <1168559417.27753.7.camel@home> On Thu, 2007-01-11 at 19:13 -0400, Steven Garrity wrote: > > > FontForge - I would suggest that we don't need an "outline font > editor" by default. I work as a professional designer and I've never > used font-editing software. The list is not about defaults at all. It's about putting these in the Desktop spin. I proposed fontforge, but now that you mention, I agree that it's use is pretty limited to us font geeks. If the size is prohibitive, ditch it. -- behdad http://behdad.org/ -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: signature.asc Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 189 bytes Desc: This is a digitally signed message part URL: From gmureddu at prodigy.net.mx Fri Jan 12 05:35:12 2007 From: gmureddu at prodigy.net.mx (Gian Paolo Mureddu) Date: Thu, 11 Jan 2007 23:35:12 -0600 Subject: Starting point for package list for Fedora 7 Desktop spin In-Reply-To: <200701111744.38417.jkeating@redhat.com> References: <200701111744.38417.jkeating@redhat.com> Message-ID: <45A71E10.30307@prodigy.net.mx> Jesse Keating escribi?: > http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Releases/FeatureFedoraDesktop > > This is a first rough draft at what packages to include in the Desktop spin. > Please note that for the most part we're trying to list top level packages as > the compose tool can depresolve from there. Many of the packages listed I > don't necessarily know what they do, especially those in and so > I'd be happy to get some thought on those. > > There is no marking what is default/manditory/optional, nor any real ideas as > to what Categories exists and just some guesses at group names. Also we'll > need the language groups too. > > I may have an iso set composed from this package list at some point soon to > share, not sure about getting it external yet. > > I also have this in comps format, which is going to be how we manage this for > the composes, so I'm going to put up a file somewhere that more people can > gain access to and munge there rather than me having to translate from > email/wiki comments into comps languages. But for now, here is a flatish > list. (Note, without translations, we're about 1.5CDs big with this list) > Just to add my opinion. Thus far the selection of packages seem very good, however may I suggest Beryl instead of Compiz? The reason why I ask this is simple: performance. Beryl seems to be (quite a bit) faster than Compiz. The way I see this is simple: Trying to build anything on my current system will render the desktop quite unresponsive when CPU % use reaches near to 80%. Window animations are choppy and slow. Beryl on the other hand handles this much better (at least on my current setup, and I'm not sure why that is exactly). Granted, Beryl has some problems of its own, however these seem to have been mostly addressed in version 0.1.4 (latests from updates), not only it offers a lot more options, but if the manager is loaded, the user still can decide which WM to use, on the fly... Similar to the "Desktop Effects" dialog, but in my opinion more convenient. Another program that I'd rather use and I 100% agree with its inclusion is Banshee over Rhythmbox. Not that I don't like Rhythmbox, but rather that Banshee uses Mono instead of Python, and in my (albeit personal) tests, I've found that Mono is less of a resource hog than Python both in memory fingerprint and CPU time, at least on x86_64, where in x86 they both are pretty much the same (seems the memory fingerprint of python on x86_64 is exaggerated quite a bit in regards to its i386 version, more than twice the memory print... Maybe a leak?). Also (though I can't confirm this) Banshee has support for MTP devices (pretty much all the newer portable mp3 devices and phones use this new protocol, instead of MSC [UMS]), through gphoto2. I've been unable to make Banshee "see" my iriver Clix player, while Amarok and Gnomad2 do (but then again, these two use libmtp, not necessarily gphoto2). As far as the office debate goes, I'd rather stick to the true and tried OpenOffice.org. I don't like much that it is somewhat of a disk space hog, only of the packages listed on http://download.fedora.redhat.com/pub/fedora/linux/core/6/i386/os/Fedora/RPMS/, and only looking at the sizes of the packages listed (are those package size of the rpm file or installed size?) they amount to about 651.229 Mib. This is confirmed by inspecting the size of all the OO.o components on the i386 FC6 DVD. Needless to say this is quite a bit. I guess one way to work around this issue is by fetching from the repos any extra language pack set to be installed from Anaconda... Leaving out all the langpacks OOo still amounts to about 105Mib (on the DVD). It may only be me, but of the system-config* utilities, wouldn't it also make sense to include system-config-display? Speaking of the system-config utilities, how about these: system-config-boot system-config-rootpassword system-config-language system-config-samba ? Maybe these other system-configs are a bit too much for some, but talking about desktop configurations, at least Samba should be there to allow file sharing with Windows computers (and Macs), so even if samba is a "server" component, it would still make sense to include it for a desktop computer, especially since it is way too common to deploy Linux boxes into already existing Windows networks, even desktop Linux. Let us not forget that even though English has become the "lingua franca" of the Internet, Fedora is deployed in a wide range of languages, leaving out system-config-language, is like denying this to the non-English speaking audience. I'm a bit hesitant about system-config-rootpassowrd and boot, but since then again these are desktop machines, at least having a "nice" way to change root's (administrator [Yuck!]) password is a necessity, especially if the system will be (as intended) used by non-"geek" users... This might also be seen as a security issue, so, I understand if it is not included. However system-config-boot gives the users the possibility to change their currently booting kernel if (for instance) they use special kernel modules that are not available for the latest official kernel. Booting the latest kernel with this lacking module will render their system "unusable" to a certain degree... For instance in the case of graphics drivers or other modules, the users then can easily revert to a previous "working" kernel. I think it's all the suggestions I have for now. Looking nice, and keep up the good work! From gmureddu at prodigy.net.mx Fri Jan 12 05:39:32 2007 From: gmureddu at prodigy.net.mx (Gian Paolo Mureddu) Date: Thu, 11 Jan 2007 23:39:32 -0600 Subject: Starting point for package list for Fedora 7 Desktop spin In-Reply-To: <45A71E10.30307@prodigy.net.mx> References: <200701111744.38417.jkeating@redhat.com> <45A71E10.30307@prodigy.net.mx> Message-ID: <45A71F14.1060308@prodigy.net.mx> Gian Paolo Mureddu escribi?: > Just to add my opinion. Thus far the selection of packages seem very > good, however may I suggest Beryl instead of Compiz? The reason why I > ask this is simple: performance. Beryl seems to be (quite a bit) > faster than Compiz. The way I see this is simple: Trying to build > anything on my current system will render the desktop quite > unresponsive when CPU % use reaches near to 80%. Window animations are > choppy and slow. Beryl on the other hand handles this much better (at > least on my current setup, and I'm not sure why that is exactly). > Granted, Beryl has some problems of its own, however these seem to > have been mostly addressed in version 0.1.4 (latests from updates), > not only it offers a lot more options, but if the manager is loaded, > the user still can decide which WM to use, on the fly... Similar to > the "Desktop Effects" dialog, but in my opinion more convenient. > > Another program that I'd rather use and I 100% agree with its > inclusion is Banshee over Rhythmbox. Not that I don't like Rhythmbox, > but rather that Banshee uses Mono instead of Python, and in my (albeit > personal) tests, I've found that Mono is less of a resource hog than > Python both in memory fingerprint and CPU time, at least on x86_64, > where in x86 they both are pretty much the same (seems the memory > fingerprint of python on x86_64 is exaggerated quite a bit in regards > to its i386 version, more than twice the memory print... Maybe a > leak?). Also (though I can't confirm this) Banshee has support for MTP > devices (pretty much all the newer portable mp3 devices and phones use > this new protocol, instead of MSC [UMS]), through gphoto2. I've been > unable to make Banshee "see" my iriver Clix player, while Amarok and > Gnomad2 do (but then again, these two use libmtp, not necessarily > gphoto2). > > As far as the office debate goes, I'd rather stick to the true and > tried OpenOffice.org. I don't like much that it is somewhat of a disk > space hog, only of the packages listed on > http://download.fedora.redhat.com/pub/fedora/linux/core/6/i386/os/Fedora/RPMS/, > and only looking at the sizes of the packages listed (are those > package size of the rpm file or installed size?) they amount to about > 651.229 Mib. This is confirmed by inspecting the size of all the OO.o > components on the i386 FC6 DVD. Needless to say this is quite a bit. I > guess one way to work around this issue is by fetching from the repos > any extra language pack set to be installed from Anaconda... Leaving > out all the langpacks OOo still amounts to about 105Mib (on the DVD). > > It may only be me, but of the system-config* utilities, wouldn't it > also make sense to include system-config-display? Speaking of the > system-config utilities, how about these: > > system-config-boot > system-config-rootpassword > system-config-language > system-config-samba > ? > > Maybe these other system-configs are a bit too much for some, but > talking about desktop configurations, at least Samba should be there > to allow file sharing with Windows computers (and Macs), so even if > samba is a "server" component, it would still make sense to include it > for a desktop computer, especially since it is way too common to > deploy Linux boxes into already existing Windows networks, even > desktop Linux. Let us not forget that even though English has become > the "lingua franca" of the Internet, Fedora is deployed in a wide > range of languages, leaving out system-config-language, is like > denying this to the non-English speaking audience. I'm a bit hesitant > about system-config-rootpassowrd and boot, but since then again these > are desktop machines, at least having a "nice" way to change root's > (administrator [Yuck!]) password is a necessity, especially if the > system will be (as intended) used by non-"geek" users... This might > also be seen as a security issue, so, I understand if it is not > included. However system-config-boot gives the users the possibility > to change their currently booting kernel if (for instance) they use > special kernel modules that are not available for the latest official > kernel. Booting the latest kernel with this lacking module will render > their system "unusable" to a certain degree... For instance in the > case of graphics drivers or other modules, the users then can easily > revert to a previous "working" kernel. > > I think it's all the suggestions I have for now. Looking nice, and > keep up the good work! > Just a little addendum to my last message: I think it is also in the best interest of the users to include system-config-securitylevel, how else would they be able to easily manage iptables and the rules? Not to mention SELinux and its policies... Anyway, that one is kind of obvious now that I think of it, and most likely will be dragged along with first-boot. From bpepple at fedoraproject.org Fri Jan 12 05:54:33 2007 From: bpepple at fedoraproject.org (Brian Pepple) Date: Fri, 12 Jan 2007 00:54:33 -0500 Subject: Starting point for package list for Fedora 7 Desktop spin In-Reply-To: <45A71E10.30307@prodigy.net.mx> References: <200701111744.38417.jkeating@redhat.com> <45A71E10.30307@prodigy.net.mx> Message-ID: <1168581273.32244.8.camel@Chuck> On Thu, 2007-01-11 at 23:35 -0600, Gian Paolo Mureddu wrote: > Another program that I'd rather use and I 100% agree with its inclusion > is Banshee over Rhythmbox. Not that I don't like Rhythmbox, but rather > that Banshee uses Mono instead of Python, and in my (albeit personal) > tests, I've found that Mono is less of a resource hog than Python both > in memory fingerprint and CPU time, at least on x86_64, where in x86 > they both are pretty much the same (seems the memory fingerprint of > python on x86_64 is exaggerated quite a bit in regards to its i386 > version, more than twice the memory print... Maybe a leak?). Also > (though I can't confirm this) Banshee has support for MTP devices > (pretty much all the newer portable mp3 devices and phones use this new > protocol, instead of MSC [UMS]), through gphoto2. I've been unable to > make Banshee "see" my iriver Clix player, while Amarok and Gnomad2 do > (but then again, these two use libmtp, not necessarily gphoto2) Rhythmbox is written in C. The only thing that use python in rhythmbox are a couple of the plugins, which not everyone enables. /B -- Brian Pepple gpg --keyserver pgp.mit.edu --recv-keys 810CC15E BD5E 6F9E 8688 E668 8F5B CBDE 326A E936 810C C15E -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: signature.asc Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 189 bytes Desc: This is a digitally signed message part URL: From gmureddu at prodigy.net.mx Fri Jan 12 07:02:20 2007 From: gmureddu at prodigy.net.mx (Gian Paolo Mureddu) Date: Fri, 12 Jan 2007 01:02:20 -0600 Subject: Starting point for package list for Fedora 7 Desktop spin In-Reply-To: <1168581273.32244.8.camel@Chuck> References: <200701111744.38417.jkeating@redhat.com> <45A71E10.30307@prodigy.net.mx> <1168581273.32244.8.camel@Chuck> Message-ID: <45A7327C.7060306@prodigy.net.mx> Brian Pepple escribi?: > Rhythmbox is written in C. The only thing that use python in rhythmbox > are a couple of the plugins, which not everyone enables. > > /B > Thanks for the heads up. Indeed, I did a quick rpm -ql on it and indeed it only has a few python files... Anyway, does it have the ability to edit id3 tags now? Last time I checked it didn't From chabotc at xs4all.nl Fri Jan 12 07:46:47 2007 From: chabotc at xs4all.nl (Chris Chabot) Date: Fri, 12 Jan 2007 08:46:47 +0100 Subject: Starting point for package list for Fedora 7 Desktop spin In-Reply-To: <200701111744.38417.jkeating@redhat.com> References: <200701111744.38417.jkeating@redhat.com> Message-ID: <45A73CE7.2080704@xs4all.nl> Only thing that i'm really missing is thunderbird.. While its still under (sometimes heated) discussion what mail client people use more, or what could/should be the default, it is quite a popular choice, and without it this message could not have been send :-) -- Chris Jesse Keating wrote: > http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Releases/FeatureFedoraDesktop > > This is a first rough draft at what packages to include in the Desktop spin. > Please note that for the most part we're trying to list top level packages as > the compose tool can depresolve from there. Many of the packages listed I > don't necessarily know what they do, especially those in and so > I'd be happy to get some thought on those. > > There is no marking what is default/manditory/optional, nor any real ideas as > to what Categories exists and just some guesses at group names. Also we'll > need the language groups too. > > I may have an iso set composed from this package list at some point soon to > share, not sure about getting it external yet. > > I also have this in comps format, which is going to be how we manage this for > the composes, so I'm going to put up a file somewhere that more people can > gain access to and munge there rather than me having to translate from > email/wiki comments into comps languages. But for now, here is a flatish > list. (Note, without translations, we're about 1.5CDs big with this list) > > (not visible) > SysvInit > authconfig > basesystem > bash > coreutils > cpio > e2fsprogs > ed > fedora-logos > fedora-release > file > filesystem > glibc > grub > hdparm > initscripts > iproute > iprutils > iputils > kbd > kudzu > libgcc > libtermcap > passwd > policycoreutils > prelink > procps > readline > rootfiles > rpm > selinux-policy-targetted > setserial > setup > shadow-utils > sysklogd > termcap > util-linux > vim-minimal > > (visible) > NetworkManager > NetworkManager-vpnc > acl > acpid > anacron > apmd > cpuspeed > at > authconfig > autofs > bluez-utils > ccid > coolkey > crash > crontabs > dmraid > diskdumputils > dos2unix > dosfstools > dvd+rw-utils > dump > (gnome-)eject ? > gnome-power-manager (does this go with Desktop instead?) > gpart > gnupg > gutenprint > lftp > logrotate > logwatch (or replacement?) > man-pages > man > mcelog > mdadm > mtools > nfs-utils > openssh-server > openssh-clients > pam_keyring > pam_pkcs11 > pam_smb > parted > redhat-lsb ? > rsync > setarch > which > yum > yum-updatesd > > > abiword > evince > glabels > gobby > gnumeric > inkscape > fontforge > openoffice.org (?) > > > banshee/rhythmbox/muine (pick one?) > f-spot > totem > > > ekiga > evolution > evolution-connector > evolution-webcal > firefox > gaim > gnome-blog/gossip > transmission > > > atomix/lmarbles > enigma > frozen-bubble/monkey-bubble > neverball > ppracer > foobillard > celestia ? > gweled ? > crack-attack > > > NetworkManager-gnome > bug-buddy > control-center > deskbar-applet > desktop-printing (does gutenprint replace this?) > file-roller > gconf-editor > gedit > gnome-applets > gnome-audio > gnome-backgrounds > gnome-bluetooth > gnome-keyring-manager > gnome-media > gnome-panel > gnome-pilot > gnome-pilot-conduits > gnome-screensaver > gnome-session > gnome-system-monitor > gnome-terminal > gnome-themes > gnome-user-docs > gnome-user-share > gnome-utils > gnome-vfs2-smb > gnome-volume-manager > gok > gthumb > gtk2-engines > hal-gnome > im-chooser > metacity > compiz > nautilus > nautilus-cd-burner > nautilus-open-terminal > nautilus-sendto > nautilus-sendto-bluetooth > notification-daemon > orca > tomboy > vino > yelp > > > bitmap-fonts > dejavu-lgc-fonts > desktop-backgrounds-basic > gdm > glx-utils > rhgb > pirut > switchdesk > synaptics > system-config-date > system-config-network > system-config-printer > system-config-services > system-config-soundcard > system-config-users > vnc-server > xorg-x11-drivers > xorg-x11-xfs > xorg-x11-xinit > xorg-x11-server-Xorg > xorg-x11-fonts-75dpi > xorg-x11-fonts-100dpi > xorg-x11-fonts-ISO8859-1-75dpi > xorg-x11-fonts-ISO8859-1-100dpi > xorg-x11-fonts-misc > xorg-x11-fonts-truetype > xorg-x11-fonts-Type1 > xorg-x11-server-Xnest > xorg-x11-server-Xvfb > xorg-x11-apps > xorg-x11-twm > xorg-x11-xauth > xorg-x11-resutils > xorg-x11-xfs-utils > xorg-x11-xsm > xterm > > From nicu_fedora at nicubunu.ro Fri Jan 12 08:07:01 2007 From: nicu_fedora at nicubunu.ro (Nicu Buculei) Date: Fri, 12 Jan 2007 10:07:01 +0200 Subject: Starting point for package list for Fedora 7 Desktop spin In-Reply-To: <45A7327C.7060306@prodigy.net.mx> References: <200701111744.38417.jkeating@redhat.com> <45A71E10.30307@prodigy.net.mx> <1168581273.32244.8.camel@Chuck> <45A7327C.7060306@prodigy.net.mx> Message-ID: <45A741A5.6070809@nicubunu.ro> Gian Paolo Mureddu wrote: > Brian Pepple escribi?: >> Rhythmbox is written in C. The only thing that use python in rhythmbox >> are a couple of the plugins, which not everyone enables. > > Thanks for the heads up. Indeed, I did a quick rpm -ql on it and indeed > it only has a few python files... Anyway, does it have the ability to > edit id3 tags now? Last time I checked it didn't The version from FC6 have this ability. -- nicu Cool Fedora wallpapers: http://fedora.nicubunu.ro/wallpapers/ Open Clip Art Library: http://www.openclipart.org my Fedora stuff: http://fedora.nicubunu.ro From gmureddu at prodigy.net.mx Fri Jan 12 09:12:08 2007 From: gmureddu at prodigy.net.mx (Gian Paolo Mureddu) Date: Fri, 12 Jan 2007 03:12:08 -0600 Subject: Starting point for package list for Fedora 7 Desktop spin In-Reply-To: <45A741A5.6070809@nicubunu.ro> References: <200701111744.38417.jkeating@redhat.com> <45A71E10.30307@prodigy.net.mx> <1168581273.32244.8.camel@Chuck> <45A7327C.7060306@prodigy.net.mx> <45A741A5.6070809@nicubunu.ro> Message-ID: <45A750E8.5000701@prodigy.net.mx> Nicu Buculei escribi?: > Gian Paolo Mureddu wrote: >> Brian Pepple escribi?: >>> Rhythmbox is written in C. The only thing that use python in rhythmbox >>> are a couple of the plugins, which not everyone enables. >> >> Thanks for the heads up. Indeed, I did a quick rpm -ql on it and >> indeed it only has a few python files... Anyway, does it have the >> ability to edit id3 tags now? Last time I checked it didn't > > The version from FC6 have this ability. > Not on my system, I'm afraid... rhythmbox-0.9.5-8.fc6, at least not with the files I tested. From gmureddu at prodigy.net.mx Fri Jan 12 09:13:58 2007 From: gmureddu at prodigy.net.mx (Gian Paolo Mureddu) Date: Fri, 12 Jan 2007 03:13:58 -0600 Subject: Starting point for package list for Fedora 7 Desktop spin In-Reply-To: <45A73CE7.2080704@xs4all.nl> References: <200701111744.38417.jkeating@redhat.com> <45A73CE7.2080704@xs4all.nl> Message-ID: <45A75156.50004@prodigy.net.mx> Chris Chabot escribi?: > Only thing that i'm really missing is thunderbird.. > > While its still under (sometimes heated) discussion what mail client > people use more, or what could/should be the default, it is quite a > popular choice, and without it this message could not have been send :-) > > -- Chris Yes, TB is quite popular, is what I use too, but some people prefer others... I've been using TB since its predecessors (in Netscape, then Mozilla, then TB), so I know my way around, and even though some options seem awkward, I've grown used to them. From caolanm at redhat.com Fri Jan 12 09:19:31 2007 From: caolanm at redhat.com (Caolan McNamara) Date: Fri, 12 Jan 2007 09:19:31 +0000 Subject: Starting point for package list for Fedora 7 Desktop spin In-Reply-To: <20070112040436.GB24696@nostromo.devel.redhat.com> References: <200701111744.38417.jkeating@redhat.com> <1168570555.2363.8.camel@localhost.localdomain> <20070112040436.GB24696@nostromo.devel.redhat.com> Message-ID: <1168593571.5002.1.camel@soulcrusher.caolan.org> On Thu, 2007-01-11 at 23:04 -0500, Bill Nottingham wrote: > Matthias Clasen (mclasen at redhat.com) said: > > > openoffice.org (?) > > > > No ?, imo. > > So, either we go with no/crappy presentation program, or we add a CD > in size. Is there an option 3? Well, there might be no need to put *all* the langpacks on the CD. Though I wouldn't like to be the one to select what languages get shipped and which ones don't. C. From david at lovesunix.net Fri Jan 12 02:21:58 2007 From: david at lovesunix.net (David Nielsen) Date: Fri, 12 Jan 2007 03:21:58 +0100 Subject: Starting point for package list for Fedora 7 Desktop spin In-Reply-To: <200701112114.58861.jkeating@redhat.com> References: <200701111744.38417.jkeating@redhat.com> <45A6C486.1070007@silverorange.com> <200701112114.58861.jkeating@redhat.com> Message-ID: <1168568518.26169.81.camel@dawkins> tor, 11 01 2007 kl. 21:14 -0500, skrev Jesse Keating: > On Thursday 11 January 2007 18:13, Steven Garrity wrote: > > Gobby - It's very cool, but it is another text editor (albeit one with a > > significant twist). I think collaborative editing would be worth > > included as plugins to Gedit or AbiWord, but I'm not sure it justifies > > another text editor. > > Until such time as these grow such plugins, Gobby is the most compelling > choice, so I'd rather see it stay in. (We use it in meetings a lot) I think AbiWord 2.5 is coming out any day now with such collaboration features. At the very least it should be here before the feature freeze. - David -- "Ridicule is the only weapon that can be used against unintelligible propositions. Ideas must be distinct before reason can act upon them.? -Thomas Jefferson -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: signature.asc Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 189 bytes Desc: Dette er en digitalt underskrevet brevdel URL: From david at lovesunix.net Fri Jan 12 03:22:12 2007 From: david at lovesunix.net (David Nielsen) Date: Fri, 12 Jan 2007 04:22:12 +0100 Subject: Starting point for package list for Fedora 7 Desktop spin In-Reply-To: <1168571532.29581.13.camel@Chuck> References: <200701111744.38417.jkeating@redhat.com> <1168571532.29581.13.camel@Chuck> Message-ID: <1168572132.26169.90.camel@dawkins> tor, 11 01 2007 kl. 22:12 -0500, skrev Brian Pepple: > On Thu, 2007-01-11 at 17:44 -0500, Jesse Keating wrote: > > Personally, I would rather see Gossip included instead of Gaim, but > since it only supports Jabber currently, most people would probably > prefer Gaim. With the Telepathy branch merged upstream, it's expected that Gossip will be proposed for GNOME inclusion and it should also support the same protocols as Gaim (and more if I understand correctly) with a IMHO nicer UI. Thank you for maintain this Brian. - David -- "Ridicule is the only weapon that can be used against unintelligible propositions. Ideas must be distinct before reason can act upon them.? -Thomas Jefferson -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: signature.asc Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 189 bytes Desc: Dette er en digitalt underskrevet brevdel URL: From nicu_fedora at nicubunu.ro Fri Jan 12 10:08:57 2007 From: nicu_fedora at nicubunu.ro (Nicu Buculei) Date: Fri, 12 Jan 2007 12:08:57 +0200 Subject: Starting point for package list for Fedora 7 Desktop spin In-Reply-To: <45A750E8.5000701@prodigy.net.mx> References: <200701111744.38417.jkeating@redhat.com> <45A71E10.30307@prodigy.net.mx> <1168581273.32244.8.camel@Chuck> <45A7327C.7060306@prodigy.net.mx> <45A741A5.6070809@nicubunu.ro> <45A750E8.5000701@prodigy.net.mx> Message-ID: <45A75E39.4020905@nicubunu.ro> Gian Paolo Mureddu wrote: > Nicu Buculei escribi?: >> Gian Paolo Mureddu wrote: >>> >>> Thanks for the heads up. Indeed, I did a quick rpm -ql on it and >>> indeed it only has a few python files... Anyway, does it have the >>> ability to edit id3 tags now? Last time I checked it didn't >> >> The version from FC6 have this ability. > > Not on my system, I'm afraid... rhythmbox-0.9.5-8.fc6, at least not with > the files I tested. OK, it can edit id3 tags on mp3 but there are problems with ogg According to http://www.gnome.org/projects/rhythmbox/news.html "Note that gst-plugins-good 0.10.4 is recommended for ID3 tag editing, and Ogg Vorbis tag editing requires a plugin from the cvs version of gst-plugins-base" so it is about Gstreamer, not about Rhythmbox -- nicu Cool Fedora wallpapers: http://fedora.nicubunu.ro/wallpapers/ Open Clip Art Library: http://www.openclipart.org my Fedora stuff: http://fedora.nicubunu.ro From bpepple at fedoraproject.org Fri Jan 12 11:08:48 2007 From: bpepple at fedoraproject.org (Brian Pepple) Date: Fri, 12 Jan 2007 06:08:48 -0500 Subject: Starting point for package list for Fedora 7 Desktop spin In-Reply-To: <1168572132.26169.90.camel@dawkins> References: <200701111744.38417.jkeating@redhat.com> <1168571532.29581.13.camel@Chuck> <1168572132.26169.90.camel@dawkins> Message-ID: <1168600128.6028.19.camel@Chuck> On Fri, 2007-01-12 at 04:22 +0100, David Nielsen wrote: > tor, 11 01 2007 kl. 22:12 -0500, skrev Brian Pepple: > > Personally, I would rather see Gossip included instead of Gaim, but > > since it only supports Jabber currently, most people would probably > > prefer Gaim. > > With the Telepathy branch merged upstream, it's expected that Gossip > will be proposed for GNOME inclusion and it should also support the same > protocols as Gaim (and more if I understand correctly) with a IMHO nicer > UI. Thank you for maintain this Brian. Yeah, the Telepathy branch was just merged yesterday into the main branch, but it's got a long way to go before being stable & feature comparable to what the current loudmouth back-end supports. Ubuntu was gonna switch over to using the TP back-end for Gossip, but Martyn (Gossip's upstream maintainer) persuaded them not to, since he didn't want to get flooded with bug reports. :( /B -- Brian Pepple gpg --keyserver pgp.mit.edu --recv-keys 810CC15E BD5E 6F9E 8688 E668 8F5B CBDE 326A E936 810C C15E -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: signature.asc Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 189 bytes Desc: This is a digitally signed message part URL: From rdieter at math.unl.edu Fri Jan 12 14:06:55 2007 From: rdieter at math.unl.edu (Rex Dieter) Date: Fri, 12 Jan 2007 08:06:55 -0600 Subject: Starting point for package list for Fedora 7 Desktop spin References: <200701111744.38417.jkeating@redhat.com> <200701112217.33653.jkeating@redhat.com> <20070112041018.GC24696@nostromo.devel.redhat.com> <200701112319.29238.jkeating@redhat.com> Message-ID: Jesse Keating wrote: > As to whats going on with the KDE spin, well I'm letting that happen > naturally > and driven by the KDE sig. And yeah, things are getting a little silly > over there, but who knows, once they start looking at CD sizes, they might > start thinking harder about what they're tossing in the mix. Brainstorming certainly brings out some silliness alright. (: Your idea of coming up with a common/standard "Desktop" set (or whatever we want to call it) is a good one, for which any Desktop spin can build from. Speaking of CD size, do you have a target size in mind (yet) for the Desktop spin? -- Rex From jkeating at redhat.com Fri Jan 12 14:57:50 2007 From: jkeating at redhat.com (Jesse Keating) Date: Fri, 12 Jan 2007 09:57:50 -0500 Subject: Starting point for package list for Fedora 7 Desktop spin In-Reply-To: References: <200701111744.38417.jkeating@redhat.com> <200701112319.29238.jkeating@redhat.com> Message-ID: <200701120957.53578.jkeating@redhat.com> On Friday 12 January 2007 09:06, Rex Dieter wrote: > Brainstorming certainly brings out some silliness alright. (: > > Your idea of coming up with a common/standard "Desktop" set (or whatever we > want to call it) is a good one, for which any Desktop spin can build from. Well, I think we'd want it a bit lower in the stack. A common base and core, DE agnostic stuff for the most part. But yeah. > Speaking of CD size, do you have a target size in mind (yet) for the > Desktop spin? I was hoping to land no more than 3CDs. oo.org+translations is like 1.5 CDs itself. But we can be overly large/small for Test1 and adjust from there. -- Jesse Keating Release Engineer: Fedora -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 189 bytes Desc: not available URL: From jkeating at redhat.com Fri Jan 12 15:05:20 2007 From: jkeating at redhat.com (Jesse Keating) Date: Fri, 12 Jan 2007 10:05:20 -0500 Subject: Starting point for package list for Fedora 7 Desktop spin In-Reply-To: <45A71E10.30307@prodigy.net.mx> References: <200701111744.38417.jkeating@redhat.com> <45A71E10.30307@prodigy.net.mx> Message-ID: <200701121005.20767.jkeating@redhat.com> On Friday 12 January 2007 00:35, Gian Paolo Mureddu wrote: > It may only be me, but of the system-config* utilities, wouldn't it also > make sense to include system-config-display? I left that out for now. I know we're desperately trying to kill it dead. I'd rather it be something that somebody has to go out and get if X doesn't automagically work (usually at the guidance of somebody who can also guide them to file a bug to get X working) rather than it just being there and we lose the opportunity to make X Just Work for their hardware. > Speaking of the > system-config utilities, how about these: > > system-config-boot > system-config-rootpassword > system-config-language Those all seem sane. > system-config-samba > ? This one, I'm not so sure. We have gnome-user-share already for creating shares, does that not work with Windows systems? -- Jesse Keating Release Engineer: Fedora -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 189 bytes Desc: not available URL: From notting at redhat.com Fri Jan 12 16:18:29 2007 From: notting at redhat.com (Bill Nottingham) Date: Fri, 12 Jan 2007 11:18:29 -0500 Subject: Starting point for package list for Fedora 7 Desktop spin In-Reply-To: <45A71E10.30307@prodigy.net.mx> References: <200701111744.38417.jkeating@redhat.com> <45A71E10.30307@prodigy.net.mx> Message-ID: <20070112161829.GA27230@nostromo.devel.redhat.com> Gian Paolo Mureddu (gmureddu at prodigy.net.mx) said: > Just to add my opinion. Thus far the selection of packages seem very > good, however may I suggest Beryl instead of Compiz? The reason why I > ask this is simple: performance. Beryl seems to be (quite a bit) faster > than Compiz. This has come up on fedora-devel - frankly, from my experience with such things as how beryl-settings is done, I can't really support using it anywhere by default. > Another program that I'd rather use and I 100% agree with its inclusion > is Banshee over Rhythmbox. Not that I don't like Rhythmbox, but rather > that Banshee uses Mono instead of Python, and in my (albeit personal) > tests, I've found that Mono is less of a resource hog than Python both > in memory fingerprint and CPU time, at least on x86_64, where in x86 > they both are pretty much the same (seems the memory fingerprint of > python on x86_64 is exaggerated quite a bit in regards to its i386 > version, more than twice the memory print... Maybe a leak?). 1) I wouldn't make languages a big deciding point 2) rhythmbox doesn't use that much python > It may only be me, but of the system-config* utilities, wouldn't it also > make sense to include system-config-display? Speaking of the > system-config utilities, how about these: system-config-display needs to die. > system-config-language Why not use the language setting in the DM? This only affects the console and the gdm default. > system-config-samba gnome-user-share? Bill From linux at koolinus.net Fri Jan 12 11:31:48 2007 From: linux at koolinus.net (Losito Nicola) Date: Fri, 12 Jan 2007 12:31:48 +0100 Subject: Starting point for package list for Fedora 7 Desktop spin In-Reply-To: <1168571532.29581.13.camel@Chuck> References: <200701111744.38417.jkeating@redhat.com> <1168571532.29581.13.camel@Chuck> Message-ID: <1168601508.24313.2.camel@koko.localdomain> Il giorno gio, 11/01/2007 alle 22.12 -0500, Brian Pepple ha scritto: > > > > banshee/rhythmbox/muine (pick one?) > > Rhythmbox. +1 If we can live at a reasonable distance from Mono apps *as default* under Free operating system would be better until some licencing becomes clearer. -- Nicola Losito kOoLiNuS blog: http://koolinus.wordpress.com messaging AIM/G-Talk/Yahoo: koolinus From linux at koolinus.net Fri Jan 12 16:53:13 2007 From: linux at koolinus.net (Losito Nicola) Date: Fri, 12 Jan 2007 17:53:13 +0100 Subject: Starting point for package list for Fedora 7 Desktop spin In-Reply-To: <45A73CE7.2080704@xs4all.nl> References: <200701111744.38417.jkeating@redhat.com> <45A73CE7.2080704@xs4all.nl> Message-ID: <1168620793.1715.0.camel@koko.localdomain> Il giorno ven, 12/01/2007 alle 08.46 +0100, Chris Chabot ha scritto: > Only thing that i'm really missing is thunderbird.. > > While its still under (sometimes heated) discussion what mail client > people use more, or what could/should be the default, it is quite a > popular choice, and without it this message could not have been send :-) Hi all, this is my first email here on the Desktop List so I think it's kind to say "ciao" to the new people I'll met here. Thunderbird is for sure a nice software to have included, but if we want an integrated desktop enviroment it is still behind Evolution and it's integration with the Address Book and the instant messaging client (Gaim). I do use Thunderbird too, encourage it's use around the various platforms, but without an integrated management with Calendar and Address Book (at least) it's a second tier software on Gnome. -- Nicola Losito kOoLiNuS blog: http://koolinus.wordpress.com messaging AIM/G-Talk/Yahoo: koolinus From stickster at gmail.com Fri Jan 12 17:26:42 2007 From: stickster at gmail.com (Paul W. Frields) Date: Fri, 12 Jan 2007 12:26:42 -0500 Subject: Starting point for package list for Fedora 7 Desktop spin In-Reply-To: <1168601508.24313.2.camel@koko.localdomain> References: <200701111744.38417.jkeating@redhat.com> <1168571532.29581.13.camel@Chuck> <1168601508.24313.2.camel@koko.localdomain> Message-ID: <1168622802.30250.0.camel@localhost.localdomain> On Fri, 2007-01-12 at 12:31 +0100, Losito Nicola wrote: > Il giorno gio, 11/01/2007 alle 22.12 -0500, Brian Pepple ha scritto: > > > > > > banshee/rhythmbox/muine (pick one?) > > > > Rhythmbox. > > +1 +1 for functionality reasons too. (Tried accessing your library via Nautilus SSH? Or is it just me?) -- Paul W. Frields, RHCE http://paul.frields.org/ gpg fingerprint: 3DA6 A0AC 6D58 FEC4 0233 5906 ACDB C937 BD11 3717 Fedora Project Board: http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Board Fedora Docs Project: http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/DocsProject -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: signature.asc Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 189 bytes Desc: This is a digitally signed message part URL: From david at lovesunix.net Sat Jan 13 01:50:12 2007 From: david at lovesunix.net (David Nielsen) Date: Sat, 13 Jan 2007 02:50:12 +0100 Subject: Starting point for package list for Fedora 7 Desktop spin In-Reply-To: <1168601508.24313.2.camel@koko.localdomain> References: <200701111744.38417.jkeating@redhat.com> <1168571532.29581.13.camel@Chuck> <1168601508.24313.2.camel@koko.localdomain> Message-ID: <1168653012.3188.14.camel@dawkins> fre, 12 01 2007 kl. 12:31 +0100, skrev Losito Nicola: > Il giorno gio, 11/01/2007 alle 22.12 -0500, Brian Pepple ha scritto: > > > > > > banshee/rhythmbox/muine (pick one?) > > > > Rhythmbox. > > +1 > > If we can live at a reasonable distance from Mono apps *as default* > under Free operating system would be better until some licencing becomes > clearer. Have we not been over this a million times. Mono is entirely licensed under OSI approved licenses. Nobody has pointed out a patent it does infringe on either. So please.. no FUD, let's let this be on the merit of the programs. - David -- "Ridicule is the only weapon that can be used against unintelligible propositions. Ideas must be distinct before reason can act upon them.? -Thomas Jefferson -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: signature.asc Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 189 bytes Desc: Dette er en digitalt underskrevet brevdel URL: From Regunathan.Umapathy at wfp.org Sat Jan 13 17:27:52 2007 From: Regunathan.Umapathy at wfp.org (Regunathan Umapathy) Date: Sat, 13 Jan 2007 22:57:52 +0530 Subject: Regunathan Umapathy/SRI/FIELD/WFP is out of the office. Message-ID: I will be out of the office starting 13/01/2007 and will not return until 18/01/2007. I will respond to your message when I return. If there is any emeregency please call me on my mobile +94-713055692 ----------------------------------------- The information contained in this electronic message and any attachments are intended for specific individuals or entities, and may be confidential, proprietary or privileged. If you are not the intended recipient, please notify the sender immediately, delete this message and do not disclose, distribute or copy it to any third party or otherwise use this message. The content of this message does not necessarily reflect the official position of the World Food Programme. Electronic messages are not secure or error free and may contain viruses or may be delayed, and the sender is not liable for any of these occurrences. The sender reserves the right to monitor, record and retain electronic messages. From Regunathan.Umapathy at wfp.org Sat Jan 13 17:28:49 2007 From: Regunathan.Umapathy at wfp.org (Regunathan Umapathy) Date: Sat, 13 Jan 2007 22:58:49 +0530 Subject: Regunathan Umapathy/SRI/FIELD/WFP is out of the office. Message-ID: I will be out of the office starting 13/01/2007 and will not return until 18/01/2007. I will respond to your message when I return. If there is any emeregency please call me on my mobile +94-713055692 ----------------------------------------- The information contained in this electronic message and any attachments are intended for specific individuals or entities, and may be confidential, proprietary or privileged. If you are not the intended recipient, please notify the sender immediately, delete this message and do not disclose, distribute or copy it to any third party or otherwise use this message. The content of this message does not necessarily reflect the official position of the World Food Programme. Electronic messages are not secure or error free and may contain viruses or may be delayed, and the sender is not liable for any of these occurrences. The sender reserves the right to monitor, record and retain electronic messages. From mclasen at redhat.com Sat Jan 13 20:11:49 2007 From: mclasen at redhat.com (Matthias Clasen) Date: Sat, 13 Jan 2007 15:11:49 -0500 Subject: Desktop spin, missing things Message-ID: <1168719109.13904.14.camel@localhost.localdomain> Hey Jesse, thanks for making the depsolved package list available. I noticed some things are still missing: beagle (multiple packages) - unless we are ready to switch to tracker, we should probably include beagle. And I'm not convinced that we are ready to switch... f-spot gimp (multiple) gparted planner - some apps that we probably want to include xchat-gnome - not so sure about this one bittorrent bittorrent-gui transmission - I don't know which of these is better, but we should include at least one gui bittorrent client. cups cups-libs - as much as we all hate printing, we will have to include cups :-) hpijs hplip - and unfortunately, these 2 will be needed too, I think. sane (multiple) - if we support printing, we should also support scanning linuxwacom - ...and maybe tablets ? NetworkManager-vpnc pam_keyring nautilus-open-terminal totem-mozplugin - some nice pieces of glue to make the desktop work better gdb sysreport - basic debugging support system-config-lvm - given that lvm is the default... The following may be handy and/or required in certain situations, not sure: poppler-utils psutils dcraw a2ps ftp ppp bluez-pin nscd From jkeating at redhat.com Sat Jan 13 20:24:34 2007 From: jkeating at redhat.com (Jesse Keating) Date: Sat, 13 Jan 2007 15:24:34 -0500 Subject: Desktop spin, missing things In-Reply-To: <1168719109.13904.14.camel@localhost.localdomain> References: <1168719109.13904.14.camel@localhost.localdomain> Message-ID: <200701131524.37767.jkeating@redhat.com> On Saturday 13 January 2007 15:11, Matthias Clasen wrote: > beagle (multiple packages) - unless we are ready to switch to > ? tracker, ? we should probably include beagle. And I'm not convinced > ? that we are ready to switch... > > f-spot f-spot is there... > gimp (multiple) Sure, I can add this. > gparted > planner ?- some apps that we probably want to include Adding these. > xchat-gnome - not so sure about this one That was in the list, but I had a bug in my config that was ignoring Extras packages. Whoops! > bittorrent > bittorrent-gui > transmission - I don't know which of these is better, but we should > ? include at least one gui bittorrent client. Transmission is listed now. > cups > cups-libs - as much as we all hate printing, we will have to include > ? cups :-) Huh. I would have thought something would have brought this in... maybe it was because I was ignoring extras (and thus didn't get gutenprint) > hpijs > hplip - and unfortunately, these 2 will be needed too, I think. Added. > sane (multiple) - if we support printing, we should also support > ? ? scanning Added. > linuxwacom - ...and maybe tablets ? Do we really want these on the CD, or could these just be in the big repo? > NetworkManager-vpnc > pam_keyring > nautilus-open-terminal ? > totem-mozplugin - some nice pieces of glue to make the desktop work > ? ?better Some of these were in comps, and just not pulled in because of the extras bug. Added totem-mozplugin. > > gdb > sysreport - basic debugging support Really necessary on the CD? Couldn't these be added later if really needed? > system-config-lvm - given that lvm is the default... Added. > The following may be handy and/or required in certain situations, > not sure: > poppler-utils > psutils > dcraw > a2ps > ftp > ppp > bluez-pin > nscd If they were 'required' they would get pulled in via rpm requirements no? -- Jesse Keating Release Engineer: Fedora -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 189 bytes Desc: not available URL: From thomas.canniot at laposte.net Sat Jan 13 20:29:43 2007 From: thomas.canniot at laposte.net (Thomas Canniot) Date: Sat, 13 Jan 2007 21:29:43 +0100 Subject: Starting point for package list for Fedora 7 Desktop spin In-Reply-To: <1168571532.29581.13.camel@Chuck> References: <200701111744.38417.jkeating@redhat.com> <1168571532.29581.13.camel@Chuck> Message-ID: <1168720184.4095.2.camel@localhost.localdomain> Le jeudi 11 janvier 2007 ? 22:12 -0500, Brian Pepple a ?crit : > On Thu, 2007-01-11 at 17:44 -0500, Jesse Keating wrote: > > http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Releases/FeatureFedoraDesktop > > > openoffice.org (?) > > On a personal level I would like to see the GNOME Office suite used, but > we should probably use OpenOffice.org since it's comparable to Firefox > in people's expectations on what should be included as default. I really would like to see OO.o in this spin as well. > > > > > banshee/rhythmbox/muine (pick one?) > > Rhythmbox. quod libet ? TC From jkeating at redhat.com Sat Jan 13 20:36:52 2007 From: jkeating at redhat.com (Jesse Keating) Date: Sat, 13 Jan 2007 15:36:52 -0500 Subject: New comps and full package list Message-ID: <200701131536.52412.jkeating@redhat.com> I've added some of the suggestions, fixed a bug in the compose tool, and updated the full package list and comps files. Please review starting at http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Releases/FeatureFedoraDesktop -- Jesse Keating Release Engineer: Fedora -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 189 bytes Desc: not available URL: From vnpenguin at vnoss.org Sat Jan 13 20:46:05 2007 From: vnpenguin at vnoss.org (Vnpenguin) Date: Sat, 13 Jan 2007 21:46:05 +0100 Subject: New comps and full package list In-Reply-To: <200701131536.52412.jkeating@redhat.com> References: <200701131536.52412.jkeating@redhat.com> Message-ID: On 1/13/07, Jesse Keating wrote: > I've added some of the suggestions, fixed a bug in the compose tool, and > updated the full package list and comps files. > > Please review starting at > http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Releases/FeatureFedoraDesktop > For which reason, kernel-xen is added into "core" group ? Xen is needed for desktop user ? -- http://vnoss.org From jkeating at redhat.com Sat Jan 13 21:06:07 2007 From: jkeating at redhat.com (Jesse Keating) Date: Sat, 13 Jan 2007 16:06:07 -0500 Subject: New comps and full package list In-Reply-To: References: <200701131536.52412.jkeating@redhat.com> Message-ID: <200701131606.07585.jkeating@redhat.com> On Saturday 13 January 2007 15:46, Vnpenguin wrote: > For which reason, kernel-xen is added into "core" group ? Xen is > needed for desktop user ? needed if you want to run desktop in xen. -- Jesse Keating Release Engineer: Fedora -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 189 bytes Desc: not available URL: From sundaram at fedoraproject.org Sun Jan 14 12:11:58 2007 From: sundaram at fedoraproject.org (Rahul Sundaram) Date: Sun, 14 Jan 2007 17:41:58 +0530 Subject: New comps and full package list In-Reply-To: <200701131536.52412.jkeating@redhat.com> References: <200701131536.52412.jkeating@redhat.com> Message-ID: <45AA1E0E.9070902@fedoraproject.org> Jesse Keating wrote: > I've added some of the suggestions, fixed a bug in the compose tool, and > updated the full package list and comps files. > > Please review starting at > http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Releases/FeatureFedoraDesktop > > We probably dont require the following packages on the media: audit, audit-libs, autofs, diskdumputils, crash, dump, docbook-dtds, docbook-style-dsssl, docbook-style-xsl, docbook-utils, ikvm, mtools, mono-data-oracle, mono-data-sybase, monodevelop, monodoc, mono-nunit, mono-web, mono-winforms, qt, PyQt, exim, postfix, tomcat5-jsp-2.0-api, tomcat5-servlet-2.4-api, transmission, xml-common xml-commons, xml-commons-apis. xml-commons-resolver,xerces-c,xerces-j2 (some of these seem to be dependencies for openoffice.org unnecessarily), timidity++ Reevaluate the following packages being installed: coolkey (a large majority of our audience dont have smartcard on their systems), hpijs, hplip (should be only required when the system has HP printers), nfs-utils (why would I need this on a desktop systems?), bluez-utils, gnome-bluetooth, nautilus-sendto-bluetooth (Maybe install on demand when bluetooth devices are detected?) Rahul From thomas.canniot at laposte.net Sun Jan 14 12:46:31 2007 From: thomas.canniot at laposte.net (Thomas Canniot) Date: Sun, 14 Jan 2007 13:46:31 +0100 Subject: New comps and full package list In-Reply-To: <45AA1E0E.9070902@fedoraproject.org> References: <200701131536.52412.jkeating@redhat.com> <45AA1E0E.9070902@fedoraproject.org> Message-ID: <1168778792.3259.16.camel@localhost.localdomain> Le dimanche 14 janvier 2007 ? 17:41 +0530, Rahul Sundaram a ?crit : > Jesse Keating wrote: > > I've added some of the suggestions, fixed a bug in the compose tool, and > > updated the full package list and comps files. > > > > Please review starting at > > http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Releases/FeatureFedoraDesktop > > > > > > We probably dont require the following packages on the media: > > audit, audit-libs, autofs, diskdumputils, crash, dump, docbook-dtds, > docbook-style-dsssl, docbook-style-xsl, docbook-utils, ikvm, mtools, > mono-data-oracle, mono-data-sybase, monodevelop, monodoc, mono-nunit, > mono-web, mono-winforms, qt, PyQt, exim, postfix, tomcat5-jsp-2.0-api, > tomcat5-servlet-2.4-api, transmission, xml-common > xml-commons, xml-commons-apis. xml-commons-resolver,xerces-c,xerces-j2 > (some of these seem to be dependencies for openoffice.org > unnecessarily), timidity++ > > Reevaluate the following packages being installed: > > coolkey (a large majority of our audience dont have smartcard on their > systems), hpijs, hplip (should be only required when the system has HP > printers), nfs-utils (why would I need this on a desktop systems?), > bluez-utils, gnome-bluetooth, nautilus-sendto-bluetooth (Maybe install > on demand when bluetooth devices are detected?) > I would have understand not to include drivers of a little printer brand, but HP is a major brand and many people has one of their printer. I don't really understand why it shold be removed. It is the same for nfs-utils. No operating system is shipped whithout tools to run their own network tools. It would be very bizar not to include nfs-utils as well. TC From sundaram at fedoraproject.org Sun Jan 14 12:45:08 2007 From: sundaram at fedoraproject.org (Rahul Sundaram) Date: Sun, 14 Jan 2007 18:15:08 +0530 Subject: New comps and full package list In-Reply-To: <1168778792.3259.16.camel@localhost.localdomain> References: <200701131536.52412.jkeating@redhat.com> <45AA1E0E.9070902@fedoraproject.org> <1168778792.3259.16.camel@localhost.localdomain> Message-ID: <45AA25D4.8050205@fedoraproject.org> Thomas Canniot wrote: > > I would have understand not to include drivers of a little printer > brand, but HP is a major brand and many people has one of their printer. > I don't really understand why it shold be removed. The second list is about packages not installed by default. Not removed. > It is the same for nfs-utils. No operating system is shipped whithout > tools to run their own network tools. It would be very bizar not to > include nfs-utils as well. Explain why nfs-utils is required in a *desktop* spin. Rahul From thomas.canniot at laposte.net Sun Jan 14 13:07:33 2007 From: thomas.canniot at laposte.net (Thomas Canniot) Date: Sun, 14 Jan 2007 14:07:33 +0100 Subject: New comps and full package list In-Reply-To: <45AA25D4.8050205@fedoraproject.org> References: <200701131536.52412.jkeating@redhat.com> <45AA1E0E.9070902@fedoraproject.org> <1168778792.3259.16.camel@localhost.localdomain> <45AA25D4.8050205@fedoraproject.org> Message-ID: <1168780053.3259.23.camel@localhost.localdomain> Le dimanche 14 janvier 2007 ? 18:15 +0530, Rahul Sundaram a ?crit : > Thomas Canniot wrote: > > > > > I would have understand not to include drivers of a little printer > > brand, but HP is a major brand and many people has one of their printer. > > I don't really understand why it shold be removed. > > The second list is about packages not installed by default. Not removed. > > > It is the same for nfs-utils. No operating system is shipped whithout > > tools to run their own network tools. It would be very bizar not to > > include nfs-utils as well. > > Explain why nfs-utils is required in a *desktop* spin. > No operating system is shipped whithout tools to run their own network tools. It is not because it is a Desktop tools that we should prevent people from sharing files between their machines. The desktop spin should not limit itself to type document in a word processing software and to listen to music. We should be able to handle some basic networks as well, because poeple want to manage their files and their hardwares (printers...), to share them among a personal network. If samba-common is included, then nfs-utils should for the same reasons. TC From fedora at leemhuis.info Sun Jan 14 13:18:46 2007 From: fedora at leemhuis.info (Thorsten Leemhuis) Date: Sun, 14 Jan 2007 14:18:46 +0100 Subject: New comps and full package list In-Reply-To: <45AA25D4.8050205@fedoraproject.org> References: <200701131536.52412.jkeating@redhat.com> <45AA1E0E.9070902@fedoraproject.org> <1168778792.3259.16.camel@localhost.localdomain> <45AA25D4.8050205@fedoraproject.org> Message-ID: <45AA2DB6.8010009@leemhuis.info> Rahul Sundaram schrieb: > Thomas Canniot wrote: >> I would have understand not to include drivers of a little printer >> brand, but HP is a major brand and many people has one of their printer. >> I don't really understand why it shold be removed. > The second list is about packages not installed by default. Not removed. Well, my vote goes for * installing hpijs as default; I prefer to have all important drivers installed so I can use them directly even if I'm without net access. * it might be acceptable (but a lot of work and trouble for a small gain? not sure...) to not install hplip by default and just give a dialogbox somewhere "hey, you just configured a hp printer; if you want to install the package hplip with some tools for managing hp printers". CU thl From sundaram at fedoraproject.org Sun Jan 14 13:18:02 2007 From: sundaram at fedoraproject.org (Rahul Sundaram) Date: Sun, 14 Jan 2007 18:48:02 +0530 Subject: New comps and full package list In-Reply-To: <1168780053.3259.23.camel@localhost.localdomain> References: <200701131536.52412.jkeating@redhat.com> <45AA1E0E.9070902@fedoraproject.org> <1168778792.3259.16.camel@localhost.localdomain> <45AA25D4.8050205@fedoraproject.org> <1168780053.3259.23.camel@localhost.localdomain> Message-ID: <45AA2D8A.8020402@fedoraproject.org> Thomas Canniot wrote: > Le dimanche 14 janvier 2007 ? 18:15 +0530, Rahul Sundaram a ?crit : >> Thomas Canniot wrote: >> >>> I would have understand not to include drivers of a little printer >>> brand, but HP is a major brand and many people has one of their printer. >>> I don't really understand why it shold be removed. >> The second list is about packages not installed by default. Not removed. >> >>> It is the same for nfs-utils. No operating system is shipped whithout >>> tools to run their own network tools. It would be very bizar not to >>> include nfs-utils as well. >> Explain why nfs-utils is required in a *desktop* spin. >> > > No operating system is shipped whithout tools to run their own network > tools. It is not because it is a Desktop tools that we should prevent > people from sharing files between their machines. > > The desktop spin should not limit itself to type document in a word > processing software and to listen to music. That is precisely a target of a desktop CD. We should be able to handle > some basic networks as well, because poeple want to manage their files > and their hardwares (printers...), to share them among a personal > network. If samba-common is included, then nfs-utils should for the same > reasons. If you want them install them. Majority of desktop users dont use NFS. Rahul From thomas.canniot at laposte.net Sun Jan 14 13:28:18 2007 From: thomas.canniot at laposte.net (Thomas Canniot) Date: Sun, 14 Jan 2007 14:28:18 +0100 Subject: New comps and full package list In-Reply-To: <45AA2D8A.8020402@fedoraproject.org> References: <200701131536.52412.jkeating@redhat.com> <45AA1E0E.9070902@fedoraproject.org> <1168778792.3259.16.camel@localhost.localdomain> <45AA25D4.8050205@fedoraproject.org> <1168780053.3259.23.camel@localhost.localdomain> <45AA2D8A.8020402@fedoraproject.org> Message-ID: <1168781298.3259.26.camel@localhost.localdomain> Le dimanche 14 janvier 2007 ? 18:48 +0530, Rahul Sundaram a ?crit : > Thomas Canniot wrote: > > Le dimanche 14 janvier 2007 ? 18:15 +0530, Rahul Sundaram a ?crit : > >> Thomas Canniot wrote: > >> > >>> I would have understand not to include drivers of a little printer > >>> brand, but HP is a major brand and many people has one of their printer. > >>> I don't really understand why it shold be removed. > >> The second list is about packages not installed by default. Not removed. > >> > >>> It is the same for nfs-utils. No operating system is shipped whithout > >>> tools to run their own network tools. It would be very bizar not to > >>> include nfs-utils as well. > >> Explain why nfs-utils is required in a *desktop* spin. > >> > > > > No operating system is shipped whithout tools to run their own network > > tools. It is not because it is a Desktop tools that we should prevent > > people from sharing files between their machines. > > > > The desktop spin should not limit itself to type document in a word > > processing software and to listen to music. > > That is precisely a target of a desktop CD. > > We should be able to handle > > some basic networks as well, because poeple want to manage their files > > and their hardwares (printers...), to share them among a personal > > network. If samba-common is included, then nfs-utils should for the same > > reasons. > > If you want them install them. Majority of desktop users dont use NFS. We should remove xen as well then. Desktop users don't use xen either. TC From sundaram at fedoraproject.org Sun Jan 14 13:27:06 2007 From: sundaram at fedoraproject.org (Rahul Sundaram) Date: Sun, 14 Jan 2007 18:57:06 +0530 Subject: New comps and full package list In-Reply-To: <1168781298.3259.26.camel@localhost.localdomain> References: <200701131536.52412.jkeating@redhat.com> <45AA1E0E.9070902@fedoraproject.org> <1168778792.3259.16.camel@localhost.localdomain> <45AA25D4.8050205@fedoraproject.org> <1168780053.3259.23.camel@localhost.localdomain> <45AA2D8A.8020402@fedoraproject.org> <1168781298.3259.26.camel@localhost.localdomain> Message-ID: <45AA2FAA.2000904@fedoraproject.org> Thomas Canniot wrote: > > We should remove xen as well then. Desktop users don't use xen either. > I certainly do. It is very useful for me however I dont see it as a default option. Rahul From thomas.canniot at laposte.net Sun Jan 14 13:32:10 2007 From: thomas.canniot at laposte.net (Thomas Canniot) Date: Sun, 14 Jan 2007 14:32:10 +0100 Subject: New comps and full package list In-Reply-To: <45AA2FAA.2000904@fedoraproject.org> References: <200701131536.52412.jkeating@redhat.com> <45AA1E0E.9070902@fedoraproject.org> <1168778792.3259.16.camel@localhost.localdomain> <45AA25D4.8050205@fedoraproject.org> <1168780053.3259.23.camel@localhost.localdomain> <45AA2D8A.8020402@fedoraproject.org> <1168781298.3259.26.camel@localhost.localdomain> <45AA2FAA.2000904@fedoraproject.org> Message-ID: <1168781530.3259.28.camel@localhost.localdomain> Le dimanche 14 janvier 2007 ? 18:57 +0530, Rahul Sundaram a ?crit : > Thomas Canniot wrote: > > > > > We should remove xen as well then. Desktop users don't use xen either. > > > > I certainly do. It is very useful for me however I dont see it as a > default option. > Ok everybody's happy then :) TC From nicolas.mailhot at laposte.net Sun Jan 14 13:33:00 2007 From: nicolas.mailhot at laposte.net (Nicolas Mailhot) Date: Sun, 14 Jan 2007 14:33:00 +0100 Subject: New comps and full package list In-Reply-To: <45AA1E0E.9070902@fedoraproject.org> References: <200701131536.52412.jkeating@redhat.com> <45AA1E0E.9070902@fedoraproject.org> Message-ID: <1168781580.3750.18.camel@rousalka.dyndns.org> Le dimanche 14 janvier 2007 ? 17:41 +0530, Rahul Sundaram a ?crit : > We probably dont require the following packages on the media: > > audit, audit-libs, autofs, diskdumputils, crash, dump, docbook-dtds, > docbook-style-dsssl, docbook-style-xsl, docbook-utils, The docbook xml bits are useful for office work, the sgml ones can be dumped if > mono-data-oracle, mono-data-sybase, monodevelop, monodoc, mono-nunit, > mono-web, mono-winforms, In corporations, linux desktops are typically developer oriented so an IDE does not surprise me, but IMHO eclipse is the right one to include > exim, postfix, Please keep them in the desktop spin, none of the "you don't need a full MTA in Desktop" people have produced a working alternative so far. (in fact the current GUI mail client suckage only makes people push more processing in local server mail stack) > tomcat5-jsp-2.0-api, tomcat5-servlet-2.4-api, xml-common > xml-commons, xml-commons-apis. xml-commons-resolver,xerces-c,xerces-j2 These are common java libs that will be used by most java apps > ? Also, do use the tooling FE made to check its own comps.xml, the xsl filter referenced by the comps SIG ( http://cvs.fedora.redhat.com/viewcvs/comps/comps-cleanup.xsl?root=extras ) will save you no end of pain. Regards, -- Nicolas Mailhot -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: signature.asc Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 197 bytes Desc: Ceci est une partie de message num?riquement sign?e URL: From sundaram at fedoraproject.org Sun Jan 14 13:32:38 2007 From: sundaram at fedoraproject.org (Rahul Sundaram) Date: Sun, 14 Jan 2007 19:02:38 +0530 Subject: New comps and full package list In-Reply-To: <1168781580.3750.18.camel@rousalka.dyndns.org> References: <200701131536.52412.jkeating@redhat.com> <45AA1E0E.9070902@fedoraproject.org> <1168781580.3750.18.camel@rousalka.dyndns.org> Message-ID: <45AA30F6.3040104@fedoraproject.org> Nicolas Mailhot wrote: >> exim, postfix, > > Please keep them in the desktop spin, none of the "you don't need a full > MTA in Desktop" people have produced a working alternative so far. (in > fact the current GUI mail client suckage only makes people push more > processing in local server mail stack) > Do you really need more than one MTA in a desktop spin? Sendmail is the default so it can stay. Rahul From vnpenguin at vnoss.org Sun Jan 14 13:46:39 2007 From: vnpenguin at vnoss.org (Vnpenguin) Date: Sun, 14 Jan 2007 14:46:39 +0100 Subject: New comps and full package list In-Reply-To: <1168781298.3259.26.camel@localhost.localdomain> References: <200701131536.52412.jkeating@redhat.com> <45AA1E0E.9070902@fedoraproject.org> <1168778792.3259.16.camel@localhost.localdomain> <45AA25D4.8050205@fedoraproject.org> <1168780053.3259.23.camel@localhost.localdomain> <45AA2D8A.8020402@fedoraproject.org> <1168781298.3259.26.camel@localhost.localdomain> Message-ID: On 1/14/07, Thomas Canniot wrote: > > We should remove xen as well then. Desktop users don't use xen either. > Yeah, agreed with you! I asked _the reason_ of Xen package for desktop spin in my previous post. I can not understand why Xen _is needed_ for desktop users. Maybe we need define "What does it mean Desktop ?". -- http://vnoss.org From nicolas.mailhot at laposte.net Sun Jan 14 13:52:25 2007 From: nicolas.mailhot at laposte.net (Nicolas Mailhot) Date: Sun, 14 Jan 2007 14:52:25 +0100 Subject: New comps and full package list In-Reply-To: <45AA30F6.3040104@fedoraproject.org> References: <200701131536.52412.jkeating@redhat.com> <45AA1E0E.9070902@fedoraproject.org> <1168781580.3750.18.camel@rousalka.dyndns.org> <45AA30F6.3040104@fedoraproject.org> Message-ID: <1168782745.3750.27.camel@rousalka.dyndns.org> Le dimanche 14 janvier 2007 ? 19:02 +0530, Rahul Sundaram a ?crit : > Nicolas Mailhot wrote: > > >> exim, postfix, > > > > Please keep them in the desktop spin, none of the "you don't need a full > > MTA in Desktop" people have produced a working alternative so far. (in > > fact the current GUI mail client suckage only makes people push more > > processing in local server mail stack) > > > > Do you really need more than one MTA in a desktop spin? Sendmail is the > default so it can stay. The last MTA you want in a dekstop spin is sendmail. There is absolutely zero question about it. It's only kept as default in RHEL to placate old solaris admins & because at very high load (central ISP/bigcorp mail node) it's rumoured to be a little faster if configured by a sendmail guru. None of those (bad?) reasons apply to the desktop spin ? someday when the sendmail people start pushing sendmail X people will realise the king has no clothes and we've been pushing the wrong implementation for years -- Nicolas Mailhot -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: signature.asc Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 197 bytes Desc: Ceci est une partie de message num?riquement sign?e URL: From jkeating at redhat.com Sun Jan 14 13:59:06 2007 From: jkeating at redhat.com (Jesse Keating) Date: Sun, 14 Jan 2007 08:59:06 -0500 Subject: New comps and full package list In-Reply-To: <45AA25D4.8050205@fedoraproject.org> References: <200701131536.52412.jkeating@redhat.com> <1168778792.3259.16.camel@localhost.localdomain> <45AA25D4.8050205@fedoraproject.org> Message-ID: <200701140859.06762.jkeating@redhat.com> On Sunday 14 January 2007 07:45, Rahul Sundaram wrote: > Explain why nfs-utils is required in a *desktop* spin. It is not *required*, however it should be on the CD, possibly installed by default, so that Nautilus Just Works for this. Same with smb. Trying to get from "why can't Nautilus mount this?" to "I need nfs-utils" is a not exactly an easy step. -- Jesse Keating Release Engineer: Fedora -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 189 bytes Desc: not available URL: From jkeating at redhat.com Sun Jan 14 14:00:19 2007 From: jkeating at redhat.com (Jesse Keating) Date: Sun, 14 Jan 2007 09:00:19 -0500 Subject: New comps and full package list In-Reply-To: References: <200701131536.52412.jkeating@redhat.com> <1168781298.3259.26.camel@localhost.localdomain> Message-ID: <200701140900.19923.jkeating@redhat.com> On Sunday 14 January 2007 08:46, Vnpenguin wrote: > Yeah, agreed with you! > I asked _the reason_ of Xen package for desktop spin in my previous > post. I can not understand why Xen _is needed_ for desktop users. Again, not _needed_ to be installed. It really needs to be in the spin though, otherwise one cannot INSTALL the spin into Xen. It is not a matter of adding it later, you just can't do it without respinning the iso set. -- Jesse Keating Release Engineer: Fedora -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 189 bytes Desc: not available URL: From jkeating at redhat.com Sun Jan 14 14:02:39 2007 From: jkeating at redhat.com (Jesse Keating) Date: Sun, 14 Jan 2007 09:02:39 -0500 Subject: New comps and full package list In-Reply-To: <45AA30F6.3040104@fedoraproject.org> References: <200701131536.52412.jkeating@redhat.com> <1168781580.3750.18.camel@rousalka.dyndns.org> <45AA30F6.3040104@fedoraproject.org> Message-ID: <200701140902.39902.jkeating@redhat.com> On Sunday 14 January 2007 08:32, Rahul Sundaram wrote: > Do you really need more than one MTA in a desktop spin? Sendmail is the > default so it can stay. If you read the comps file, I don't list _any_ MTAs. These are being brought in via deps in the packages I _do_ list. I know why exim is in, it has the shortest name of all the things that provide /usr/bin/sendmail. What I'm not sure of is how/why postfix is being brought in. It must provide something that exim doesn't. -- Jesse Keating Release Engineer: Fedora -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 189 bytes Desc: not available URL: From jkeating at redhat.com Sun Jan 14 14:08:03 2007 From: jkeating at redhat.com (Jesse Keating) Date: Sun, 14 Jan 2007 09:08:03 -0500 Subject: New comps and full package list In-Reply-To: <45AA1E0E.9070902@fedoraproject.org> References: <200701131536.52412.jkeating@redhat.com> <45AA1E0E.9070902@fedoraproject.org> Message-ID: <200701140908.04031.jkeating@redhat.com> On Sunday 14 January 2007 07:11, Rahul Sundaram wrote: > We probably dont require the following packages on the media: Please focus more on the comps file if you don't want something installed. The comps file is what drives what will be on the CD. The full list is for the folks that think something is /missing/ from the spin. If you think something is too much, find out what package is bringing it in and attempt to "fix" that package, not block it from the compose. > audit, audit-libs, autofs, diskdumputils, crash, dump, docbook-dtds, > docbook-style-dsssl, docbook-style-xsl, docbook-utils, ikvm, mtools, > mono-data-oracle, mono-data-sybase, monodevelop, monodoc, mono-nunit, > mono-web, mono-winforms, qt, PyQt, exim, postfix, tomcat5-jsp-2.0-api, > tomcat5-servlet-2.4-api, transmission, xml-common > xml-commons, xml-commons-apis. xml-commons-resolver,xerces-c,xerces-j2 > (some of these seem to be dependencies for openoffice.org > unnecessarily), timidity++ > > Reevaluate the following packages being installed: > > coolkey (a large majority of our audience dont have smartcard on their > systems), Doesn't mean we shouldn't have it available for use. Thins like this should Just Work, because really how am I supposed to look at a smart card, and decide I need "coolkey" installed? More likely I'll try to use it, it won't work and I'll think Fedora doesn't support it. > hpijs, hplip (should be only required when the system has HP > printers), HP is a HUGE brand. These should just work, just like all the other printer drivers pulled in by cups. As to why these are they're own packages, that's a different issue to bring up. > nfs-utils (why would I need this on a desktop systems?) Because quite frequently one uses NFS to mount something. VERY common in a university setting (where Fedora makes sense now since they can refresh every year). It was also a huge mistake to forget nfs-utils from the LiveCD. > bluez-utils, gnome-bluetooth, nautilus-sendto-bluetooth (Maybe install > on demand when bluetooth devices are detected?) Until we have such a system that can do this, we need to include them so that the hardware Just Works. We don't strip out all the kernel modules, why would we do the userland too? People expect their hardware to Just Work, and we should ensure that it does. Until such time that we can detect their hardware when they try to use it and offer a way to install the software to support it, we should include it in the spin, and probably install it by default (note default, can still be unchecked). -- Jesse Keating Release Engineer: Fedora -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 189 bytes Desc: not available URL: From mclasen at redhat.com Mon Jan 15 02:10:20 2007 From: mclasen at redhat.com (Matthias Clasen) Date: Sun, 14 Jan 2007 21:10:20 -0500 Subject: New comps and full package list In-Reply-To: <200701140908.04031.jkeating@redhat.com> References: <200701131536.52412.jkeating@redhat.com> <45AA1E0E.9070902@fedoraproject.org> <200701140908.04031.jkeating@redhat.com> Message-ID: <1168827020.31678.2.camel@localhost.localdomain> On Sun, 2007-01-14 at 09:08 -0500, Jesse Keating wrote: > > hpijs, hplip (should be only required when the system has HP > > printers), > > HP is a HUGE brand. These should just work, just like all the other printer > drivers pulled in by cups. As to why these are they're own packages, that's > a different issue to bring up. Of course, it is another question why these daemons have to run by default and cannot be activated when the right hardware is plugged in. > > bluez-utils, gnome-bluetooth, nautilus-sendto-bluetooth (Maybe install > > on demand when bluetooth devices are detected?) > > Until we have such a system that can do this, we need to include them so that > the hardware Just Works. We don't strip out all the kernel modules, why > would we do the userland too? People expect their hardware to Just Work, and > we should ensure that it does. Until such time that we can detect their > hardware when they try to use it and offer a way to install the software to > support it, we should include it in the spin, and probably install it by > default (note default, can still be unchecked). I'd propose that the first step in that direction would be to ensure that daemons are only started when the relevant hardware appears, see above. Matthias From jkeating at redhat.com Mon Jan 15 13:19:55 2007 From: jkeating at redhat.com (Jesse Keating) Date: Mon, 15 Jan 2007 08:19:55 -0500 Subject: New comps and full package list In-Reply-To: <1168827020.31678.2.camel@localhost.localdomain> References: <200701131536.52412.jkeating@redhat.com> <200701140908.04031.jkeating@redhat.com> <1168827020.31678.2.camel@localhost.localdomain> Message-ID: <200701150819.55250.jkeating@redhat.com> On Sunday 14 January 2007 21:10, Matthias Clasen wrote: > Of course, it is another question why these daemons have to run by > default and cannot be activated when the right hardware is plugged in. > ? > > > > bluez-utils, gnome-bluetooth, nautilus-sendto-bluetooth (Maybe install > > > on demand when bluetooth devices are detected?) > > > > Until we have such a system that can do this, we need to include them so > > that the hardware Just Works. ?We don't strip out all the kernel modules, > > why would we do the userland too? ?People expect their hardware to Just > > Work, and we should ensure that it does. ?Until such time that we can > > detect their hardware when they try to use it and offer a way to install > > the software to support it, we should include it in the spin, and > > probably install it by default (note default, can still be unchecked). > > I'd propose that the first step in that direction would be to ensure > that daemons are only started when the relevant hardware appears, see > above. I agree completely. I think there was a goal for F7 to fix these hardware daemons. So including the packages now shouldn't be a bad thing, with hopes that the packages will get better before the final release. -- Jesse Keating Release Engineer: Fedora -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 189 bytes Desc: not available URL: From katzj at redhat.com Mon Jan 15 16:31:54 2007 From: katzj at redhat.com (Jeremy Katz) Date: Mon, 15 Jan 2007 11:31:54 -0500 Subject: Desktop spin, missing things In-Reply-To: <200701131524.37767.jkeating@redhat.com> References: <1168719109.13904.14.camel@localhost.localdomain> <200701131524.37767.jkeating@redhat.com> Message-ID: <1168878714.5410.6.camel@aglarond.local> On Sat, 2007-01-13 at 15:24 -0500, Jesse Keating wrote: > > gdb > > sysreport - basic debugging support > > Really necessary on the CD? Couldn't these be added later if really > needed? Yes. We want (need :) people to be able to give us good bug reports! Jeremy From katzj at redhat.com Mon Jan 15 16:40:53 2007 From: katzj at redhat.com (Jeremy Katz) Date: Mon, 15 Jan 2007 11:40:53 -0500 Subject: New comps and full package list In-Reply-To: <45AA1E0E.9070902@fedoraproject.org> References: <200701131536.52412.jkeating@redhat.com> <45AA1E0E.9070902@fedoraproject.org> Message-ID: <1168879253.5410.14.camel@aglarond.local> On Sun, 2007-01-14 at 17:41 +0530, Rahul Sundaram wrote: > We probably dont require the following packages on the media: > audit, audit-libs, audit-libs is required by huge chunks of the system. And without the daemon, setroubleshoot can't work (which is very important for actually being able to inform a user and help when there are SELinux denials) > autofs, diskdumputils, crash, dump, docbook-dtds, > docbook-style-dsssl, docbook-style-xsl, docbook-utils, ikvm, > mtools, mtools is the only way to do some operations with DOS filesystems that are at least somewhat common > mono-data-oracle, mono-data-sybase, monodevelop, monodoc, mono-nunit, > mono-web, mono-winforms, qt, PyQt, exim, postfix, > tomcat5-jsp-2.0-api, > tomcat5-servlet-2.4-api, transmission, xml-common > xml-commons, xml-commons-apis. > xml-commons-resolver,xerces-c,xerces-j2 > (some of these seem to be dependencies for openoffice.org Much of them are. Since we've now moved to OOo not containing its own copies of the world. > unnecessarily), timidity++ > > Reevaluate the following packages being installed: > > coolkey (a large majority of our audience dont have smartcard on their > systems), hpijs, hplip (should be only required when the system has HP > printers), We should definitely be installing these by default. We don't want to be forcing users to get online to install basic hardware support. The associated services probably have bugs filed blocking 222312 (hardware daemons shouldn't run as services but instead only run when the hardware is present) > nfs-utils (why would I need this on a desktop systems?), Because being able to mount NFS filesystems is something that most people using Linux expect to be able to do ;) > bluez-utils, gnome-bluetooth, nautilus-sendto-bluetooth (Maybe install > on demand when bluetooth devices are detected?) Again, should be installed by default and the daemons only started when the hardware is actually present. Jeremy From jkeating at redhat.com Mon Jan 15 16:45:18 2007 From: jkeating at redhat.com (Jesse Keating) Date: Mon, 15 Jan 2007 11:45:18 -0500 Subject: Desktop spin, missing things In-Reply-To: <1168878714.5410.6.camel@aglarond.local> References: <1168719109.13904.14.camel@localhost.localdomain> <200701131524.37767.jkeating@redhat.com> <1168878714.5410.6.camel@aglarond.local> Message-ID: <200701151145.18716.jkeating@redhat.com> On Monday 15 January 2007 11:31, Jeremy Katz wrote: > On Sat, 2007-01-13 at 15:24 -0500, Jesse Keating wrote: > > > gdb > > > sysreport - basic debugging support > > > > Really necessary on the CD? ?Couldn't these be added later if really > > needed? > > Yes. ?We want (need :) people to be able to give us good bug reports! Seems these are already in the comps file. -- Jesse Keating Release Engineer: Fedora -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 189 bytes Desc: not available URL: From katzj at redhat.com Mon Jan 15 16:45:53 2007 From: katzj at redhat.com (Jeremy Katz) Date: Mon, 15 Jan 2007 11:45:53 -0500 Subject: New comps and full package list In-Reply-To: <1168827020.31678.2.camel@localhost.localdomain> References: <200701131536.52412.jkeating@redhat.com> <45AA1E0E.9070902@fedoraproject.org> <200701140908.04031.jkeating@redhat.com> <1168827020.31678.2.camel@localhost.localdomain> Message-ID: <1168879553.5410.18.camel@aglarond.local> On Sun, 2007-01-14 at 21:10 -0500, Matthias Clasen wrote: > On Sun, 2007-01-14 at 09:08 -0500, Jesse Keating wrote: > > > hpijs, hplip (should be only required when the system has HP > > > printers), > > > > HP is a HUGE brand. These should just work, just like all the other printer > > drivers pulled in by cups. As to why these are they're own packages, that's > > a different issue to bring up. > > Of course, it is another question why these daemons have to run by > default and cannot be activated when the right hardware is plugged in. Definitely. I filed a tracking bug about this last week (222312) and put the bluetooth bits on there since they're what I noticed and had annoy me at that specific time. Filing something about the HP printing stuff would be good to do as well as going through the rest of a pretty full install to see what else falls into this category. Jeremy From ajackson at redhat.com Mon Jan 15 19:20:26 2007 From: ajackson at redhat.com (Adam Jackson) Date: Mon, 15 Jan 2007 14:20:26 -0500 Subject: New comps and full package list In-Reply-To: <200701131536.52412.jkeating@redhat.com> References: <200701131536.52412.jkeating@redhat.com> Message-ID: <1168888826.3900.5.camel@localhost.localdomain> On Sat, 2007-01-13 at 15:36 -0500, Jesse Keating wrote: > I've added some of the suggestions, fixed a bug in the compose tool, and > updated the full package list and comps files. > > Please review starting at > http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Releases/FeatureFedoraDesktop I'm a bit confused by some of this, in the sense that the tools seem to be a bit overzealous in pulling in deps. For example, I don't see libdmx explicitly listed anywhere, and on a FC6 machine, 'rpm -q --whatrequires libdmx' and 'repoquery --whatrequires libdmx' both only return libdmx-devel. But I also don't see libdmx-devel listed anywhere. So I'm not sure why it's in the big list. - ajax From katzj at redhat.com Mon Jan 15 19:33:58 2007 From: katzj at redhat.com (Jeremy Katz) Date: Mon, 15 Jan 2007 14:33:58 -0500 Subject: New comps and full package list In-Reply-To: <1168888826.3900.5.camel@localhost.localdomain> References: <200701131536.52412.jkeating@redhat.com> <1168888826.3900.5.camel@localhost.localdomain> Message-ID: <1168889638.5410.52.camel@aglarond.local> On Mon, 2007-01-15 at 14:20 -0500, Adam Jackson wrote: > On Sat, 2007-01-13 at 15:36 -0500, Jesse Keating wrote: > > I've added some of the suggestions, fixed a bug in the compose tool, and > > updated the full package list and comps files. > > > > Please review starting at > > http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Releases/FeatureFedoraDesktop > > I'm a bit confused by some of this, in the sense that the tools seem to > be a bit overzealous in pulling in deps. > > For example, I don't see libdmx explicitly listed anywhere, and on a FC6 > machine, 'rpm -q --whatrequires libdmx' and 'repoquery --whatrequires > libdmx' both only return libdmx-devel. But I also don't see > libdmx-devel listed anywhere. Try 'rpm -q --whatrequires libdmx.so.1' (or repoquery of the same) Jeremy From notting at redhat.com Mon Jan 15 19:35:23 2007 From: notting at redhat.com (Bill Nottingham) Date: Mon, 15 Jan 2007 14:35:23 -0500 Subject: New comps and full package list In-Reply-To: <1168888826.3900.5.camel@localhost.localdomain> References: <200701131536.52412.jkeating@redhat.com> <1168888826.3900.5.camel@localhost.localdomain> Message-ID: <20070115193523.GA16444@nostromo.devel.redhat.com> Adam Jackson (ajackson at redhat.com) said: > For example, I don't see libdmx explicitly listed anywhere, and on a FC6 > machine, 'rpm -q --whatrequires libdmx' and 'repoquery --whatrequires > libdmx' both only return libdmx-devel. But I also don't see > libdmx-devel listed anywhere. For repoquery, pass --alldeps - this shows everything that requires everything that libdmx provides (generally, library sonames.) Bill From jkeating at redhat.com Mon Jan 15 19:43:39 2007 From: jkeating at redhat.com (Jesse Keating) Date: Mon, 15 Jan 2007 14:43:39 -0500 Subject: New comps and full package list In-Reply-To: <1168888826.3900.5.camel@localhost.localdomain> References: <200701131536.52412.jkeating@redhat.com> <1168888826.3900.5.camel@localhost.localdomain> Message-ID: <200701151443.39453.jkeating@redhat.com> On Monday 15 January 2007 14:20, Adam Jackson wrote: > I'm a bit confused by some of this, in the sense that the tools seem to > be a bit overzealous in pulling in deps. > > For example, I don't see libdmx explicitly listed anywhere, and on a FC6 > machine, 'rpm -q --whatrequires libdmx' and 'repoquery --whatrequires > libdmx' both only return libdmx-devel. ?But I also don't see > libdmx-devel listed anywhere. > > So I'm not sure why it's in the big list. See Bill and Jeremy's email, but in this case, many things (gdm included) require something that libdmx provides: libdmx-0:1.0.2-3.1.x86_64 gdm-1:2.16.4-1.fc6.x86_64 xorg-x11-server-Xdmx-0:1.1.1-47.4.fc6.x86_64 xorg-x11-utils-0:7.1-2.fc6.x86_64 libdmx-devel-0:1.0.2-3.1.x86_64 -- Jesse Keating Release Engineer: Fedora -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 189 bytes Desc: not available URL: From ajackson at redhat.com Mon Jan 15 19:34:46 2007 From: ajackson at redhat.com (Adam Jackson) Date: Mon, 15 Jan 2007 14:34:46 -0500 Subject: New comps and full package list In-Reply-To: <1168889638.5410.52.camel@aglarond.local> References: <200701131536.52412.jkeating@redhat.com> <1168888826.3900.5.camel@localhost.localdomain> <1168889638.5410.52.camel@aglarond.local> Message-ID: <1168889686.3900.13.camel@localhost.localdomain> On Mon, 2007-01-15 at 14:33 -0500, Jeremy Katz wrote: > On Mon, 2007-01-15 at 14:20 -0500, Adam Jackson wrote: > > On Sat, 2007-01-13 at 15:36 -0500, Jesse Keating wrote: > > > I've added some of the suggestions, fixed a bug in the compose tool, and > > > updated the full package list and comps files. > > > > > > Please review starting at > > > http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Releases/FeatureFedoraDesktop > > > > I'm a bit confused by some of this, in the sense that the tools seem to > > be a bit overzealous in pulling in deps. > > > > For example, I don't see libdmx explicitly listed anywhere, and on a FC6 > > machine, 'rpm -q --whatrequires libdmx' and 'repoquery --whatrequires > > libdmx' both only return libdmx-devel. But I also don't see > > libdmx-devel listed anywhere. > > Try 'rpm -q --whatrequires libdmx.so.1' (or repoquery of the same) Bah, my mistake. Okay, that's just xdpyinfo. No big deal. - ajax From besfahbo at redhat.com Mon Jan 15 20:46:07 2007 From: besfahbo at redhat.com (Behdad Esfahbod) Date: Mon, 15 Jan 2007 15:46:07 -0500 Subject: New comps and full package list In-Reply-To: <1168827020.31678.2.camel@localhost.localdomain> References: <200701131536.52412.jkeating@redhat.com> <45AA1E0E.9070902@fedoraproject.org> <200701140908.04031.jkeating@redhat.com> <1168827020.31678.2.camel@localhost.localdomain> Message-ID: <1168893967.32125.5.camel@home> On Sun, 2007-01-14 at 21:10 -0500, Matthias Clasen wrote: > > I'd propose that the first step in that direction would be to ensure > that daemons are only started when the relevant hardware appears, see > above. /me teases David. Hal can call out to start the daemons, right? -- behdad http://behdad.org/ -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: signature.asc Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 189 bytes Desc: This is a digitally signed message part URL: From rtlm10 at gmail.com Mon Jan 15 21:44:37 2007 From: rtlm10 at gmail.com (Russell Harrison) Date: Mon, 15 Jan 2007 16:44:37 -0500 Subject: Starting point for package list for Fedora 7 Desktop spin In-Reply-To: <45A6C486.1070007@silverorange.com> References: <200701111744.38417.jkeating@redhat.com> <45A6C486.1070007@silverorange.com> Message-ID: <1ed4a0130701151344k622171d1yf3c9c950a28f9ec1@mail.gmail.com> On 1/11/07, Steven Garrity wrote: > > A few quite thoughts on the category: > > As a default, I'd like to see *either* OpenOffice.org, or the equivalent > Gnome apps (Abiword, Gnumeric, etc). Since the OpenDocument format is > doing so well, I'd like to see Fedora (as a prominent) distribution have > strong support for it. Hence, I think OpenOffice.org is the best choice > (for now). +1 for OpenOffice.org, lets promote ODF as much as we can. Gobby - It's very cool, but it is another text editor (albeit one with a > significant twist). I think collaborative editing would be worth > included as plugins to Gedit or AbiWord, but I'm not sure it justifies > another text editor. I think gobby is something I'd really like to start playing with. Its not quite there yet, but it needs more people using it to get it where it needs to be. On the text editor front, I'd really like to see at least emacs-nox included in the same way that vim-minimal is (or at least in base). I don't suggest including the graphical bits but its a real pain falling back to vim when X doesn't start. It seems like a pretty obvious package to include since it is one of the most popular text editors available. Also, I'd suggest Rhythmbox as the choice of music player - it's solid > and has been improving a lot in recent releases. Maybe I should take another look into Rhythmbox. Its been a while since it let me down last. People have been talking it up recently so I'll have to give it another chance. Russell -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From mcepl at redhat.com Wed Jan 17 09:54:51 2007 From: mcepl at redhat.com (Matej Cepl) Date: Wed, 17 Jan 2007 09:54:51 +0000 (UTC) Subject: New comps and full package list References: <200701131536.52412.jkeating@redhat.com> <45AA1E0E.9070902@fedoraproject.org> <1168781580.3750.18.camel@rousalka.dyndns.org> <45AA30F6.3040104@fedoraproject.org> Message-ID: Rahul Sundaram scripst: > Do you really need more than one MTA in a desktop spin? Sendmail is the > default so it can stay. But it surely shouldn't be in the *Desktop* spin, right? Matej -- http://www.ceplovi.cz/matej/blog/, Jabber: ceplmajabber.cz GPG Finger: 89EF 4BC6 288A BF43 1BAB 25C3 E09F EF25 D964 84AC Microwave oven? Whaddya mean, it's a microwave oven? I've been watching Channel 4 on the thing for two weeks. From sundaram at fedoraproject.org Wed Jan 17 14:12:11 2007 From: sundaram at fedoraproject.org (Rahul Sundaram) Date: Wed, 17 Jan 2007 19:42:11 +0530 Subject: New comps and full package list In-Reply-To: References: <200701131536.52412.jkeating@redhat.com> <45AA1E0E.9070902@fedoraproject.org> <1168781580.3750.18.camel@rousalka.dyndns.org> <45AA30F6.3040104@fedoraproject.org> Message-ID: <45AE2EBB.8030708@fedoraproject.org> Matej Cepl wrote: > Rahul Sundaram scripst: >> Do you really need more than one MTA in a desktop spin? Sendmail is the >> default so it can stay. > > But it surely shouldn't be in the *Desktop* spin, right? > > Matej MTA's in general or sendmail in particular? We probably need something that can send log messages or whatever. Not really a full blown MTA. We definitely dont need three MTA's. Rahul From mcepl at redhat.com Thu Jan 18 16:01:32 2007 From: mcepl at redhat.com (Matej Cepl) Date: Thu, 18 Jan 2007 16:01:32 +0000 (UTC) Subject: New comps and full package list References: <200701131536.52412.jkeating@redhat.com> <45AA1E0E.9070902@fedoraproject.org> <1168781580.3750.18.camel@rousalka.dyndns.org> <45AA30F6.3040104@fedoraproject.org> <45AE2EBB.8030708@fedoraproject.org> Message-ID: Rahul Sundaram scripst: > MTA's in general or sendmail in particular? We probably need something > that can send log messages or whatever. Not really a full blown MTA. We > definitely dont need three MTA's. No, sendmail in particular. I can accept that we need MTA, but then something user accessible (I know, that there are people who want sendmail for their ISP or multi-milion-user setting, but they won't use Client CD for that). Mat?j -- http://www.ceplovi.cz/matej/blog/, Jabber: ceplmajabber.cz GPG Finger: 89EF 4BC6 288A BF43 1BAB 25C3 E09F EF25 D964 84AC According to the Franciscan priest Richard Rohr, spirituality is not for people who are trying to avoid hell; it is for people who have been through hell. In many ways, spirituality is about what we do with our pain. And the truth is, if we don't transform it, we will transmit it. -- Al Gustafson (quoted at http://thecorner.typepad.com\ /bc/2004/04/transform_not_t.html) From mclasen at redhat.com Thu Jan 18 19:22:31 2007 From: mclasen at redhat.com (Matthias Clasen) Date: Thu, 18 Jan 2007 14:22:31 -0500 Subject: [Fwd: Initial release of oss2pulse and updated fusd] Message-ID: <1169148152.30815.0.camel@golem.boston.devel.redhat.com> Forwarding this, since it seems stuck in the moderation queue and I have been unable to track down a list moderator... -------------- next part -------------- An embedded message was scrubbed... From: xiphmont at xiph.org Subject: Initial release of oss2pulse and updated fusd Date: Sat, 13 Jan 2007 06:07:27 -0500 Size: 12041 URL: From daly at ctc.com Thu Jan 18 20:27:12 2007 From: daly at ctc.com (Ryan Daly) Date: Thu, 18 Jan 2007 15:27:12 -0500 Subject: XDM/XSM - not getting proper X environment Message-ID: <45AFD820.2070409@ctc.com> All: I've been using XDM for quite a while. After installing Fedora Core 6, XDM seems to be behaving differently. When I first logged in, it didn't seem to use my ~/.Xclients. I read a little and discovered that it was looking for xsm. I installed it and created a ~/.xsession file (which had the same lines as my .Xclients had). Things somewhat work, however when I log in my fonts are not what they should be, and some environment settings are not getting set. Using GDM, things work as they should. What changed, and how do I modify my config so that XDM works as it did? Thanks. -- ------------------------------------------------------------ This message and any files transmitted within are intended solely for the addressee or its representative and may contain company sensitive information. If you are not the intended recipient, notify the sender immediately and delete this message. Publication, reproduction, forwarding, or content disclosure is prohibited without the consent of the original sender and may be unlawful. Concurrent Technologies Corporation and its Affiliates. www.ctc.com 1-800-282-4392 ------------------------------------------------------------ From rstrode at redhat.com Thu Jan 18 20:44:57 2007 From: rstrode at redhat.com (Ray Strode) Date: Thu, 18 Jan 2007 15:44:57 -0500 Subject: XDM/XSM - not getting proper X environment In-Reply-To: <45AFD820.2070409@ctc.com> References: <45AFD820.2070409@ctc.com> Message-ID: <1169153097.3636.1.camel@halflap.boston.devel.redhat.com> Hi, > What changed, and how do I modify my config so that XDM works as it did? does mv /etc/X11/xdm/Xsession /etc/X11/xdm/Xsession.broken ln -s /etc/X11/xinit/Xsession /etc/X11/xdm/Xsession fix things up? If so, please file a bug with the summary: xdm should use system Xsession file Thanks, --Ray From daly at ctc.com Thu Jan 18 21:34:13 2007 From: daly at ctc.com (Ryan Daly) Date: Thu, 18 Jan 2007 16:34:13 -0500 Subject: XDM/XSM - not getting proper X environment In-Reply-To: <1169153097.3636.1.camel@halflap.boston.devel.redhat.com> References: <45AFD820.2070409@ctc.com> <1169153097.3636.1.camel@halflap.boston.devel.redhat.com> Message-ID: <45AFE7D5.7020601@ctc.com> On 01/18/07 15:44, Ray Strode wrote: > mv /etc/X11/xdm/Xsession /etc/X11/xdm/Xsession.broken > ln -s /etc/X11/xinit/Xsession /etc/X11/xdm/Xsession > > fix things up? > > If so, please file a bug with the summary: > > xdm should use system Xsession file I think it took care of things. I now get the proper environment that I was expecting to see. Logins appear to be tracked differently now, though. In past releases, I had noticed that each shell was associated with a different TTY. Now I see that I'm logged in to TTY :0. Is that how it is supposed to be? ------------------------------------------------------------ This message and any files transmitted within are intended solely for the addressee or its representative and may contain company sensitive information. If you are not the intended recipient, notify the sender immediately and delete this message. Publication, reproduction, forwarding, or content disclosure is prohibited without the consent of the original sender and may be unlawful. Concurrent Technologies Corporation and its Affiliates. www.ctc.com 1-800-282-4392 ------------------------------------------------------------ From rstrode at redhat.com Thu Jan 18 21:41:12 2007 From: rstrode at redhat.com (Ray Strode) Date: Thu, 18 Jan 2007 16:41:12 -0500 Subject: XDM/XSM - not getting proper X environment In-Reply-To: <45AFE7D5.7020601@ctc.com> References: <45AFD820.2070409@ctc.com> <1169153097.3636.1.camel@halflap.boston.devel.redhat.com> <45AFE7D5.7020601@ctc.com> Message-ID: <1169156472.3636.25.camel@halflap.boston.devel.redhat.com> Hi, > Logins appear to be tracked differently now, though. In past releases, > I had noticed that each shell was associated with a different TTY. Now > I see that I'm logged in to TTY :0. Is that how it is supposed to be? Each gnome-terminal tab/window is associated with a separate pseudo-terminal (/dev/pts/something). Is that what you mean? Or are you referring to utmp entries? What program are you running? --Ray From daly at ctc.com Thu Jan 18 21:54:36 2007 From: daly at ctc.com (Ryan Daly) Date: Thu, 18 Jan 2007 16:54:36 -0500 Subject: XDM/XSM - not getting proper X environment In-Reply-To: <1169156472.3636.25.camel@halflap.boston.devel.redhat.com> References: <45AFD820.2070409@ctc.com> <1169153097.3636.1.camel@halflap.boston.devel.redhat.com> <45AFE7D5.7020601@ctc.com> <1169156472.3636.25.camel@halflap.boston.devel.redhat.com> Message-ID: <45AFEC9C.3020103@ctc.com> On 01/18/07 16:41, Ray Strode wrote: > Each gnome-terminal tab/window is associated with a separate > pseudo-terminal (/dev/pts/something). Is that what you mean? Yes. > Or are you referring to utmp entries? What program are you running? I'm running xterm's (with -ls). I'm used to seeing the following... daly at linux13 <597#> w 16:51:01 up 34 days, 7:36, 56 users, load average: 1.10, 0.47, 0.38 USER TTY FROM LOGIN@ IDLE JCPU PCPU WHAT daly pts/7 - 15Dec06 9days 0.13s 23.21s xterm -font 7x13 -ls -bg black -fg yellow -sb -sl 500 -geometry ...but am now seeing this. daly at joker <7#> w 16:51:01 up 34 days, 7:36, 56 users, load average: 1.10, 0.47, 0.38 USER TTY FROM LOGIN@ IDLE JCPU PCPU WHAT daly :0 - 16:28 ?xdm? 3.95s 0.01s -:0 ------------------------------------------------------------ This message and any files transmitted within are intended solely for the addressee or its representative and may contain company sensitive information. If you are not the intended recipient, notify the sender immediately and delete this message. Publication, reproduction, forwarding, or content disclosure is prohibited without the consent of the original sender and may be unlawful. Concurrent Technologies Corporation and its Affiliates. www.ctc.com 1-800-282-4392 ------------------------------------------------------------ From rstrode at redhat.com Thu Jan 18 22:02:18 2007 From: rstrode at redhat.com (Ray Strode) Date: Thu, 18 Jan 2007 17:02:18 -0500 Subject: XDM/XSM - not getting proper X environment In-Reply-To: <45AFEC9C.3020103@ctc.com> References: <45AFD820.2070409@ctc.com> <1169153097.3636.1.camel@halflap.boston.devel.redhat.com> <45AFE7D5.7020601@ctc.com> <1169156472.3636.25.camel@halflap.boston.devel.redhat.com> <45AFEC9C.3020103@ctc.com> Message-ID: <1169157738.3636.28.camel@halflap.boston.devel.redhat.com> Hi, > I'm running xterm's (with -ls). I'm used to seeing the following... > > daly at linux13 <597#> w > 16:51:01 up 34 days, 7:36, 56 users, load average: 1.10, 0.47, 0.38 > USER TTY FROM LOGIN@ IDLE JCPU PCPU WHAT > daly pts/7 - 15Dec06 9days 0.13s 23.21s xterm > -font 7x13 -ls -bg black -fg yellow -sb -sl 500 -geometry > > ...but am now seeing this. > > daly at joker <7#> w > 16:51:01 up 34 days, 7:36, 56 users, load average: 1.10, 0.47, 0.38 > USER TTY FROM LOGIN@ IDLE JCPU PCPU WHAT > daly :0 - 16:28 ?xdm? 3.95s 0.01s -:0 interesting. Yea, gnome-terminal would do something like daly pts/7 :0 15Dec06 9days 0.13s 23.21s xterm I'd file a libutempter bug report and see what the package maintainer has to say. --Ray From spamrefuse at yahoo.com Fri Jan 19 01:59:30 2007 From: spamrefuse at yahoo.com (Rob) Date: Thu, 18 Jan 2007 17:59:30 -0800 (PST) Subject: Disable in X the restart/shutdown by user. How? Message-ID: <20070119015931.22644.qmail@web33307.mail.mud.yahoo.com> Hi, I'm running FC6 with Gnome's gdm as the X loging manager (seems to be the default on Fedora) and with XFCE as my desktop manager. In the menu, there's a configuration option for the X login display, with which I can remove the Restart/Shutdown buttons on the login screen. So the X login screen is OK. However, upon logout, I get the 'confirmation' window to "really logout" (which is good), but there I also get the options to Restart/Shutdown the machine after logout. I want to disable the latter options, but that appears to be very difficult. I asked this question on the general fedora-list but nobody seems to know the answer. If I would use kdm, there seems to be a configurable option. So is this then a missing feature in Gnome's gdm, or a missing feature in Fedora in general? I hope someone on this mailing list can help me. Thanks, Rob. ____________________________________________________________________________________ Sucker-punch spam with award-winning protection. Try the free Yahoo! Mail Beta. http://advision.webevents.yahoo.com/mailbeta/features_spam.html From sdl.web at gmail.com Fri Jan 19 02:39:41 2007 From: sdl.web at gmail.com (Leo) Date: Fri, 19 Jan 2007 02:39:41 +0000 Subject: Disable in X the restart/shutdown by user. How? References: <20070119015931.22644.qmail@web33307.mail.mud.yahoo.com> Message-ID: On 2007-01-19, Rob said: > However, upon logout, I get the 'confirmation' window to "really > logout" (which is good), but there I also get the options to > Restart/Shutdown the machine after logout. I want to disable the > latter options, but that appears to be very difficult. I also run Fedora 6 but there is no Restart/Shutdown on the logout window. So it should be a configurable option but I don't know where to change that. -- Leo (GPG Key: 9283AA3F) From spamrefuse at yahoo.com Fri Jan 19 03:07:37 2007 From: spamrefuse at yahoo.com (Rob) Date: Thu, 18 Jan 2007 19:07:37 -0800 (PST) Subject: Disable in X the restart/shutdown by user. How? Message-ID: <22083.30366.qm@web33303.mail.mud.yahoo.com> Leo wrote: > On 2007-01-19, Rob said: > >>However, upon logout, I get the 'confirmation' >> window to "really logout" (which is good), but >> there I also get the options to Restart/Shutdown >> the machine after logout. I want to disable the >> latter options, but that appears to be very >> difficult. > > I also run Fedora 6 but there is no > Restart/Shutdown on the logout window. So it > should be a configurable option but I don't > know where to change that. What manager are you using for your personal desktop? KDE, GNOME, XFCE, .... ? The logout behaviour seems to be in charge of the desktop manager, but I'm not sure. On the XFCE mailinglist I was told that XFCE checks sudo configuration first, and next checks with the HAL configuration. For finding the solution, they delegated me back to the Fedora list.... So, you may say "go to XFCE list for this issue". However, in order to reboot the machine as a regular user, somehow there should be a configuration in Fedora that allows that. XFCE by itself cannot overrule such a configuration; OK, it may try, but I want Fedora to not allow a regular user to take the machine down.... Thanks, Rob. ____________________________________________________________________________________ Need a quick answer? Get one in minutes from people who know. Ask your question on www.Answers.yahoo.com From david at lovesunix.net Fri Jan 19 17:16:13 2007 From: david at lovesunix.net (David Nielsen) Date: Fri, 19 Jan 2007 18:16:13 +0100 Subject: [Fwd: Initial release of oss2pulse and updated fusd] In-Reply-To: <1169148152.30815.0.camel@golem.boston.devel.redhat.com> References: <1169148152.30815.0.camel@golem.boston.devel.redhat.com> Message-ID: <1169226973.3267.62.camel@dawkins> tor, 18 01 2007 kl. 14:22 -0500, skrev Matthias Clasen: > > 1) 'FUSD', which claims to be pronounced 'fused', not 'fuse - dee' is > > confusingly similar to the unrelated FUSE. For fusd to be adopted, it > > needs another name. ("Exodev"? "Userdev"?) Being an X-Files fan I have to say Monty-props seems fitting - David -- "Ridicule is the only weapon that can be used against unintelligible propositions. Ideas must be distinct before reason can act upon them.? -Thomas Jefferson -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: signature.asc Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 189 bytes Desc: Dette er en digitalt underskrevet brevdel URL: From mclasen at redhat.com Fri Jan 19 18:53:00 2007 From: mclasen at redhat.com (Matthias Clasen) Date: Fri, 19 Jan 2007 13:53:00 -0500 Subject: Using pulseaudio by default Message-ID: <1169232780.30815.14.camel@golem.boston.devel.redhat.com> Since one of the plans for better sound in FC7 involves replacing esound by pulseaudio, I had a look at this problem today. First there is a wiki page about transitioning the gnome stack to pulseaudio (http://live.gnome.org/PulseAudio?highlight=%28pulse%29) which as some white spots, so there is some work left to do - it may be possible to get there quickly for now by making use of the fact that pulseaudio has esd emulation, and worry about cleaning up libesd dependencies later. Is that the plan for FC7 ? What is the plan for gstreamer, use the pulseaudio alsa emulation ? Then, I installed the current Extras pulseaudio package, and found that it does not work :-(. Trying to run pulseaudio yields: main.c: WARNING: called SUID root, but not in group 'pulse-rt'. module-hal-detect.c: failed to detect any sound hardware. module.c: Failed to load "module-hal-detect" (argument: ""): initialization failed. main.c: Module load failed. main.c: failed to initialize daemon. Judging by the error message, pulseaudio seems to use some debianesque manage-by-groups scheme. Indeed, looking at /etc/group, the package created three groups, "pulse", "pulse-rt" and "pulse-access". But why are these created in the range of regular user-groups, and how does one use them ? I couldn't find any documentation about this in the package. Clearly, some work is needed to make pulseaudio-based sound work out of the box. Matthias From mclasen at redhat.com Fri Jan 19 19:07:53 2007 From: mclasen at redhat.com (Matthias Clasen) Date: Fri, 19 Jan 2007 14:07:53 -0500 Subject: Using pulseaudio by default In-Reply-To: <1169232780.30815.14.camel@golem.boston.devel.redhat.com> References: <1169232780.30815.14.camel@golem.boston.devel.redhat.com> Message-ID: <1169233673.30815.17.camel@golem.boston.devel.redhat.com> On Fri, 2007-01-19 at 13:53 -0500, Matthias Clasen wrote: > > But > why are these created in the range of regular user-groups, and how does > one use them ? Ah, I was wrong about the range, sorry. But still, after adding myself to the pulse-rt group, and logging in again, pulseaudio won't start, this time complaining about a nonreadable $HOME/.pulse/daemon.conf. From rdieter at math.unl.edu Fri Jan 19 19:19:51 2007 From: rdieter at math.unl.edu (Rex Dieter) Date: Fri, 19 Jan 2007 13:19:51 -0600 Subject: Using pulseaudio by default References: <1169232780.30815.14.camel@golem.boston.devel.redhat.com> <1169233673.30815.17.camel@golem.boston.devel.redhat.com> Message-ID: Matthias Clasen wrote: > On Fri, 2007-01-19 at 13:53 -0500, Matthias Clasen wrote: >> why are these created in the range of regular user-groups, and how does >> one use them ? > > Ah, I was wrong about the range, sorry. But still, after adding myself > to the pulse-rt group, and logging in again, pulseaudio won't start, > this time complaining about a nonreadable $HOME/.pulse/daemon.conf. I'd recommend either contacting the maintainer and/or bugzilla it. The Fedora maintainer is pulseaudio upstream, so I'd venture he could address these issues quickly. -- Rex From daly at ctc.com Fri Jan 19 19:39:57 2007 From: daly at ctc.com (Ryan Daly) Date: Fri, 19 Jan 2007 14:39:57 -0500 Subject: XDM/XSM - not getting proper X environment In-Reply-To: <1169157738.3636.28.camel@halflap.boston.devel.redhat.com> References: <45AFD820.2070409@ctc.com> <1169153097.3636.1.camel@halflap.boston.devel.redhat.com> <45AFE7D5.7020601@ctc.com> <1169156472.3636.25.camel@halflap.boston.devel.redhat.com> <45AFEC9C.3020103@ctc.com> <1169157738.3636.28.camel@halflap.boston.devel.redhat.com> Message-ID: <45B11E8D.6060306@ctc.com> Hi Ray, > interesting. Yea, gnome-terminal would do something like > > daly pts/7 :0 15Dec06 9days 0.13s 23.21s xterm > > I'd file a libutempter bug report and see what the package maintainer > has to say. Bug has been filed for the XDM issue: https://bugzilla.redhat.com/bugzilla/show_bug.cgi?id=223507 I'll also file a bug for the above issue. Thanks for the help! ------------------------------------------------------------ This message and any files transmitted within are intended solely for the addressee or its representative and may contain company sensitive information. If you are not the intended recipient, notify the sender immediately and delete this message. Publication, reproduction, forwarding, or content disclosure is prohibited without the consent of the original sender and may be unlawful. Concurrent Technologies Corporation and its Affiliates. www.ctc.com 1-800-282-4392 ------------------------------------------------------------ From mclasen at redhat.com Fri Jan 19 20:52:25 2007 From: mclasen at redhat.com (Matthias Clasen) Date: Fri, 19 Jan 2007 15:52:25 -0500 Subject: Using pulseaudio by default In-Reply-To: <45B12A80.2070604@drzeus.cx> References: <1169232780.30815.14.camel@golem.boston.devel.redhat.com> <45B12A80.2070604@drzeus.cx> Message-ID: <1169239945.30815.26.camel@golem.boston.devel.redhat.com> On Fri, 2007-01-19 at 21:30 +0100, Pierre Ossman wrote: > > > Ah, I was wrong about the range, sorry. But still, after adding myself > > to the pulse-rt group, and logging in again, pulseaudio won't start, > > this time complaining about a nonreadable $HOME/.pulse/daemon.conf. > > > > Now this shouldn't happen. It should use your local conf if it exists, > but fall back to the global otherwise. I'll ask monty about this. I believe he investigated this particular problem in depth. > > > > Clearly, some work is needed to make pulseaudio-based sound work > > out of the box. > > > > Definitely, I just have too much on my table to do more than just basic > maintenance of the package. > Ok, I'll be happy to file some bugs and provide patches. How about this list of changes as a starting point: - Split esound into esound (daemon and utils) and esound-libs (#223503) - Make the package install /usr/bin/esd instead of /usr/bin/esdcompat and make it conflict with esound - that should take care of most of the gnome stack. - Figure out a way to avoid the pulse-rt group requirement, or alternatively, add users to pulse-rt automatically. - Make module-hal-detect work with recent kernels (http://pulseaudio.org/ticket/51) From jon.nettleton at gmail.com Sat Jan 20 03:09:27 2007 From: jon.nettleton at gmail.com (Jon Nettleton) Date: Fri, 19 Jan 2007 22:09:27 -0500 Subject: Using pulseaudio by default In-Reply-To: <1169239945.30815.26.camel@golem.boston.devel.redhat.com> References: <1169232780.30815.14.camel@golem.boston.devel.redhat.com> <45B12A80.2070604@drzeus.cx> <1169239945.30815.26.camel@golem.boston.devel.redhat.com> Message-ID: <1169262567.2670.3.camel@averatec> On Fri, 2007-01-19 at 15:52 -0500, Matthias Clasen wrote: > On Fri, 2007-01-19 at 21:30 +0100, Pierre Ossman wrote: > > > > > Ah, I was wrong about the range, sorry. But still, after adding myself > > > to the pulse-rt group, and logging in again, pulseaudio won't start, > > > this time complaining about a nonreadable $HOME/.pulse/daemon.conf. > > > > > > > Now this shouldn't happen. It should use your local conf if it exists, > > but fall back to the global otherwise. > > I'll ask monty about this. I believe he investigated this particular > problem in depth. > > > > > > > Clearly, some work is needed to make pulseaudio-based sound work > > > out of the box. > > > > > > > Definitely, I just have too much on my table to do more than just basic > > maintenance of the package. > > > > Ok, I'll be happy to file some bugs and provide patches. > > How about this list of changes as a starting point: > > - Split esound into esound (daemon and utils) and esound-libs (#223503) > > - Make the package install /usr/bin/esd instead of /usr/bin/esdcompat > and make it conflict with esound - that should take care of > most of the gnome stack. > > - Figure out a way to avoid the pulse-rt group requirement, or > alternatively, add users to pulse-rt automatically. > > - Make module-hal-detect work with recent kernels > (http://pulseaudio.org/ticket/51) > > I have also slogged through the wiki's and mailing lists and have a working pulseaudio audio setup on my desktop. If there are some bugs files and a place to collaborate information I would be more than happy to add my tomboy notes on the process. Jon From nphilipp at redhat.com Wed Jan 24 17:24:49 2007 From: nphilipp at redhat.com (Nils Philippsen) Date: Wed, 24 Jan 2007 18:24:49 +0100 Subject: Desktop spin, missing things In-Reply-To: <200701131524.37767.jkeating@redhat.com> References: <1168719109.13904.14.camel@localhost.localdomain> <200701131524.37767.jkeating@redhat.com> Message-ID: <1169659489.25492.47.camel@wombat.tiptoe.de> Hi, sorry for chiming in so late... On Sat, 2007-01-13 at 15:24 -0500, Jesse Keating wrote: > On Saturday 13 January 2007 15:11, Matthias Clasen wrote: > > beagle (multiple packages) - unless we are ready to switch to > > tracker, we should probably include beagle. And I'm not convinced > > that we are ready to switch... > > > > f-spot > > f-spot is there... > > > gimp (multiple) > > Sure, I can add this. Please add these as well: gimp-help gimp-data-extras ufraw-gimp (for accessing raw digicam data from the gimp) Nils -- Nils Philippsen / Red Hat / nphilipp at redhat.com "Those who would give up Essential Liberty to purchase a little Temporary Safety, deserve neither Liberty nor Safety." -- B. Franklin, 1759 PGP fingerprint: C4A8 9474 5C4C ADE3 2B8F 656D 47D8 9B65 6951 3011 From nphilipp at redhat.com Wed Jan 24 17:25:55 2007 From: nphilipp at redhat.com (Nils Philippsen) Date: Wed, 24 Jan 2007 18:25:55 +0100 Subject: New comps and full package list In-Reply-To: <200701131606.07585.jkeating@redhat.com> References: <200701131536.52412.jkeating@redhat.com> <200701131606.07585.jkeating@redhat.com> Message-ID: <1169659555.25492.50.camel@wombat.tiptoe.de> On Sat, 2007-01-13 at 16:06 -0500, Jesse Keating wrote: > On Saturday 13 January 2007 15:46, Vnpenguin wrote: > > For which reason, kernel-xen is added into "core" group ? Xen is > > needed for desktop user ? > > needed if you want to run desktop in xen. how about a "virt-guest" group then? IMO not every "normal" desktop user should schlep around kernel-xen when he won't touch virtualization ever. Nils -- Nils Philippsen / Red Hat / nphilipp at redhat.com "Those who would give up Essential Liberty to purchase a little Temporary Safety, deserve neither Liberty nor Safety." -- B. Franklin, 1759 PGP fingerprint: C4A8 9474 5C4C ADE3 2B8F 656D 47D8 9B65 6951 3011 From jkeating at redhat.com Wed Jan 24 17:28:26 2007 From: jkeating at redhat.com (Jesse Keating) Date: Wed, 24 Jan 2007 12:28:26 -0500 Subject: New comps and full package list In-Reply-To: <1169659555.25492.50.camel@wombat.tiptoe.de> References: <200701131536.52412.jkeating@redhat.com> <200701131606.07585.jkeating@redhat.com> <1169659555.25492.50.camel@wombat.tiptoe.de> Message-ID: <200701241228.26576.jkeating@redhat.com> On Wednesday 24 January 2007 12:25, Nils Philippsen wrote: > how about a "virt-guest" group then? IMO not every "normal" desktop user > should schlep around kernel-xen when he won't touch virtualization ever. I went back to using the master comps file from FC6 (plus some updates for F7). No kernel should be picked by default, anaconda will decide, based on hardware arch, and whether or not the virt group was selected. This should accomplish your needs. -- Jesse Keating Release Engineer: Fedora -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 189 bytes Desc: not available URL: From jkeating at redhat.com Wed Jan 24 17:35:28 2007 From: jkeating at redhat.com (Jesse Keating) Date: Wed, 24 Jan 2007 12:35:28 -0500 Subject: Desktop spin, missing things In-Reply-To: <1169659489.25492.47.camel@wombat.tiptoe.de> References: <1168719109.13904.14.camel@localhost.localdomain> <200701131524.37767.jkeating@redhat.com> <1169659489.25492.47.camel@wombat.tiptoe.de> Message-ID: <200701241235.28678.jkeating@redhat.com> On Wednesday 24 January 2007 12:24, Nils Philippsen wrote: > gimp-data-extras > ufraw-gimp (for accessing raw digicam data from the gimp) These two aren't making it in via dependencies. I think we have a little room, I can try adding them to a test compose and see how much more space these plus their possible deps bring in. -- Jesse Keating Release Engineer: Fedora -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 189 bytes Desc: not available URL: From jkeating at redhat.com Wed Jan 24 17:42:45 2007 From: jkeating at redhat.com (Jesse Keating) Date: Wed, 24 Jan 2007 12:42:45 -0500 Subject: Now a package manifest! Message-ID: <200701241242.50436.jkeating@redhat.com> Pungi now works from a flat file package manifest to decide what to depsolve and pull into a spin. A master comps file will be used for all spins for grouping purposes, so that grouping is constant, and only changed in one place. (I'm working from a merged comps-fc7 (slightly updated from FC6), and comps-fe7). I've updated the wiki page with the latest data on the manifest + what it brings in via depsolving: http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Releases/FeatureFedoraDesktop -- Jesse Keating Release Engineer: Fedora -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 189 bytes Desc: not available URL: From davidz at redhat.com Wed Jan 24 21:33:03 2007 From: davidz at redhat.com (David Zeuthen) Date: Thu, 25 Jan 2007 08:33:03 +1100 Subject: Now a package manifest! In-Reply-To: <200701241242.50436.jkeating@redhat.com> References: <200701241242.50436.jkeating@redhat.com> Message-ID: <1169674384.6481.11.camel@streetpunk> On Wed, 2007-01-24 at 12:42 -0500, Jesse Keating wrote: > Pungi now works from a flat file package manifest to decide what to depsolve > and pull into a spin. A master comps file will be used for all spins for > grouping purposes, so that grouping is constant, and only changed in one > place. (I'm working from a merged comps-fc7 (slightly updated from FC6), and > comps-fe7). > > I've updated the wiki page with the latest data on the manifest + what it > brings in via depsolving: > > http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Releases/FeatureFedoraDesktop Does the manifest, e.g. http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Releases/FeatureFedoraDesktop/PackageList support wildcards? If not, it probably should as it's ugly to include all of aspell-*, m17n-db-*, openoffice.org-langpack-* manually. I'm sure that when one package adds a new language, someone adds a new input method etc. then we're going to forget it and due to the package not being heavily used it will take some time to get noticed. Notably yum supports wildcards this and it's used for the live cd stuff to pull in all the relevant sub packages. Alternatively, we could have meta packages aspell-all that pulls in all aspell-* packages. Notably, if we go down this route we can later have (making up regions on the fly) aspell-RegionAmericas aspell-RegionWesternEurope aspell-RegionEasternEurope aspell-RegionAfrica aspell-RegionAPAC which would make it very easy to build live CD's / spins targeted at certain regions. What do you think? Probably our packaging standard committee should look at something like this (including possibly defining regions). David From jkeating at redhat.com Wed Jan 24 21:45:38 2007 From: jkeating at redhat.com (Jesse Keating) Date: Wed, 24 Jan 2007 16:45:38 -0500 Subject: Now a package manifest! In-Reply-To: <1169674384.6481.11.camel@streetpunk> References: <200701241242.50436.jkeating@redhat.com> <1169674384.6481.11.camel@streetpunk> Message-ID: <200701241645.38892.jkeating@redhat.com> On Wednesday 24 January 2007 16:33, David Zeuthen wrote: > support wildcards? If not, it probably should as it's ugly to include > all of aspell-*, m17n-db-*, openoffice.org-langpack-* manually. I'm sure > that when one package adds a new language, someone adds a new input > method etc. then we're going to forget it and due to the package not > being heavily used it will take some time to get noticed. > > Notably yum supports wildcards this and it's used for the live cd stuff > to pull in all the relevant sub packages. Not a horrible suggestion. I think theoretically it could... Post test1 of course. -- Jesse Keating Release Engineer: Fedora -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 189 bytes Desc: not available URL: From caolanm at redhat.com Thu Jan 25 11:32:27 2007 From: caolanm at redhat.com (Caolan McNamara) Date: Thu, 25 Jan 2007 11:32:27 +0000 Subject: consistency on handling uncommitted pre-edit buffers on input position change ? gtk2/firefox/OOo Message-ID: <1169724749.30177.42.camel@soulcrusher.caolan.org> in e.g. scim-pinyin (chinese simplified) there's some inconsistency between applications and handling an uncommitted pre-edit buffer when the user attempts to change the input position while there are uncommitted chars in the input buffer. i.e. gedit: 1) foo, active im, type w 2) highlighted pre-edit appears 3) click at start foo 4) uncommitted buffer destroyed, no commit, cursor moves to foo 5) type w 2) new pre-edit for 'w' appears at foo location 3) deactivate IM 4) pre-edit closed, no commit 5) activate pre-edit without moving location, previous pre-edit content reappears i.e. changing the input location destroys the contents of an ambivalent uncommitted pre-edit buffer. firefox: 1) foo, activate im in main window area, e.g. google input box, type w 2) highlighted pre-edit appears 3) click at start foo 4) pre-edit remains open, cursor pretends to be positioned as foo, but pre-edit remains at original position, new chars still entered as original position 5) deactivate IM 6) move cursor anywhere, activate IM 7) previous pre-edit content reappears 8) click in url toolbar, pre-edit content appears committed to original location. On typing the first new letter in the url toolbar, pre-edit area appears, and is revealed to be the same pre-edit buffer as previously used, i.e. w already entered 9) re-click in google entry, apparently committed character disappears i.e. attempting to change the cursor input location is ignored within the same context while pre-edit is active, changing entry context commits the buffer, but doesn't clear it. Single buffer used throughout application. An uncommitted buffer follows cursor position, but is only shown on a new key entry. Contents not destroyed in input location change. openoffice.org: 1) foo, activate IM in main writer window, type w 2) highlighed pre-edit appears 3) click at start foo 4) cursor moves to foo, uncommitted buffer moves with it 5) click in e.g. style name area, still uncommitted pre-edit moves with it 6) deactivate IM, move anywhere, activate IM, uncommitted contents appear at the new location i.e. single pre-edit for the app, uncommitted contents remain regardless of context change, pre-edit follows cursor. Contents not destroyed in input location change. Now lets take the korean hangul IM, and in... gedit: type o, highlight pre-edit, click elsewhere, the o is committed to the doc at the original location, input position moves to new location i.e. changing the input location commits and clears the contents of an un-ambivalent uncommitted pre-edit buffer. firefox: type o, highlight pre-edit, click elsewhere in entry area, cursor pretends to move, nothing really happens. click in new entry area. the o is committed to the new entry area i.e. *sob!* openoffice.org; type o, highlight pre-edit, click elsewhere in the app, cursor moves to new location, highlight uncommitted pre-edit moves to new location. i.e. same as i.e. ambivalent uncommitted pre-edit buffer case So all in all I'm a little confused :-) So, is this (effectively) the gedit/gtk algorithm, and does it make everyone happy... 1) if there are un-ambivalent uncommitted pre-edit buffer contents then commit on input position move 2) if there are ambivalent uncommitted pre-edit buffer contents then ignore them on input position move 3) moving the cursor position will always clear the input-buffer C. From sundaram at fedoraproject.org Fri Jan 26 22:42:44 2007 From: sundaram at fedoraproject.org (Rahul Sundaram) Date: Sat, 27 Jan 2007 04:12:44 +0530 Subject: Wine by default? Message-ID: <45BA83E4.1030409@fedoraproject.org> Hi What are the thoughts on installing Wine by default in Desktop and KDE spins for Fedora 7? It might make it more easier for migrations and heterogeneous environments if we installed and integrated with Wine by default. Rahul From gmureddu at prodigy.net.mx Fri Jan 26 23:28:15 2007 From: gmureddu at prodigy.net.mx (Gian Paolo Mureddu) Date: Fri, 26 Jan 2007 17:28:15 -0600 Subject: Wine by default? In-Reply-To: <45BA83E4.1030409@fedoraproject.org> References: <45BA83E4.1030409@fedoraproject.org> Message-ID: <45BA8E8F.5080804@prodigy.net.mx> Rahul Sundaram escribi?: > Hi > > What are the thoughts on installing Wine by default in Desktop and KDE > spins for Fedora 7? It might make it more easier for migrations and > heterogeneous environments if we installed and integrated with Wine by > default. > > Rahul > That'd be an interesting twist... I'm certain some folks will complain about it, as Fedora does not have to remain "compatible" with Windows, but that would make things much easier for people to migrate and even to learn how to use Windows applications on Linux through Wine... I vote "yes" to this. From mandreiana.lists at gmail.com Sat Jan 27 13:52:46 2007 From: mandreiana.lists at gmail.com (Marius Andreiana) Date: Sat, 27 Jan 2007 15:52:46 +0200 Subject: Wine by default? In-Reply-To: <45BA83E4.1030409@fedoraproject.org> References: <45BA83E4.1030409@fedoraproject.org> Message-ID: <1169905966.20372.6.camel@localhost.localdomain> On Sat, 2007-01-27 at 04:12 +0530, Rahul Sundaram wrote: > Hi > > What are the thoughts on installing Wine by default in Desktop and KDE > spins for Fedora 7? It should be in, of course, and now it works well. One issue: menu entries for applications installed with wine don't seem to be created automatically, one has to type "wineboot" - this should have a menu entry. On current FC6 it creates two "Wine" menus in main menu instead of one. Menu items should get icons. -- Marius Andreiana http://marius.andreiana.googlepages.com From david at lovesunix.net Sat Jan 27 15:35:55 2007 From: david at lovesunix.net (David Nielsen) Date: Sat, 27 Jan 2007 16:35:55 +0100 Subject: Wine by default? In-Reply-To: <45BA83E4.1030409@fedoraproject.org> References: <45BA83E4.1030409@fedoraproject.org> Message-ID: <1169912155.7508.39.camel@dawkins> On l?r, 2007-01-27 at 04:12 +0530, Rahul Sundaram wrote: > Hi > > What are the thoughts on installing Wine by default in Desktop and KDE > spins for Fedora 7? It might make it more easier for migrations and > heterogeneous environments if we installed and integrated with Wine by > default. I would strongly oppose this, it seems to be mainly an encouragement to use proprietary software which also means having users run software on their systems we cannot support but they will expect us to. I seriously doubt it would aid migration, people will want this to run games but Wine to my best understanding does not run DirectX games very well (I tried that Cedega thing which is suppose to and it makes kittens cry with it's badness). I think this would be more pain than gain currently and the more good alternatives to applications we get which those people want to run under Wine the less relevant it becomes. We will never however make up for the mount of commercial games, but that is a non issue since in my experience since those don't work very well with Wine as it is. - David Nielsen -- "Ridicule is the only weapon that can be used against unintelligible propositions. Ideas must be distinct before reason can act upon them.? -Thomas Jefferson -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: signature.asc Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 189 bytes Desc: This is a digitally signed message part URL: From david at lovesunix.net Sat Jan 27 15:46:05 2007 From: david at lovesunix.net (David Nielsen) Date: Sat, 27 Jan 2007 16:46:05 +0100 Subject: Wine by default? In-Reply-To: <45BA83E4.1030409@fedoraproject.org> References: <45BA83E4.1030409@fedoraproject.org> Message-ID: <1169912765.14587.9.camel@dawkins> On l?r, 2007-01-27 at 04:12 +0530, Rahul Sundaram wrote: > Hi > > What are the thoughts on installing Wine by default in Desktop and KDE > spins for Fedora 7? It might make it more easier for migrations and > heterogeneous environments if we installed and integrated with Wine by > default. I would strongly oppose this for the following reasons: a) It would be read as encouragement to run proprietary software which cannot be supported (but will result in poor Will Woods being flooded with reports as experience tells us) b) It will mainly be expected to run games, which Wine doesn't - this also becomes a support trap and the myth that it's a migration tool is thus shown false and our users get a bad experience with Fedora since their applications won't work. For people who need to run Windows apps, Windows is a perfectly fine platform and with KVM I am to understand we can run it virtualized environment (provided you have the hardware) which would be safer and zero support on hands of the applications in question (we do need to support kvm, virt-manager and friends). - David Nielsen -- "Ridicule is the only weapon that can be used against unintelligible propositions. Ideas must be distinct before reason can act upon them.? -Thomas Jefferson -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: signature.asc Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 189 bytes Desc: This is a digitally signed message part URL: From david at lovesunix.net Sat Jan 27 15:48:08 2007 From: david at lovesunix.net (David Nielsen) Date: Sat, 27 Jan 2007 16:48:08 +0100 Subject: Wine by default? In-Reply-To: <1169912155.7508.39.camel@dawkins> References: <45BA83E4.1030409@fedoraproject.org> <1169912155.7508.39.camel@dawkins> Message-ID: <1169912888.14587.12.camel@dawkins> On l?r, 2007-01-27 at 16:35 +0100, David Nielsen wrote: Just ignore this, Evolution is very crashy on Development, I thought I lost the first reply since there was no indication that it was in the outbox what so ever so I typed a new one. > I would strongly oppose this, it seems to be mainly an encouragement to > use proprietary software which also means having users run software on > their systems we cannot support but they will expect us to. > > I seriously doubt it would aid migration, people will want this to run > games but Wine to my best understanding does not run DirectX games very > well (I tried that Cedega thing which is suppose to and it makes kittens > cry with it's badness). > > I think this would be more pain than gain currently and the more good > alternatives to applications we get which those people want to run under > Wine the less relevant it becomes. We will never however make up for the > mount of commercial games, but that is a non issue since in my > experience since those don't work very well with Wine as it is. > > - David Nielsen > > -- > Fedora-desktop-list mailing list > Fedora-desktop-list at redhat.com > https://www.redhat.com/mailman/listinfo/fedora-desktop-list -- "Ridicule is the only weapon that can be used against unintelligible propositions. Ideas must be distinct before reason can act upon them.? -Thomas Jefferson -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: signature.asc Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 189 bytes Desc: This is a digitally signed message part URL: From davej at redhat.com Sun Jan 28 18:22:04 2007 From: davej at redhat.com (Dave Jones) Date: Sun, 28 Jan 2007 13:22:04 -0500 Subject: Starting point for package list for Fedora 7 Desktop spin In-Reply-To: <200701111744.38417.jkeating@redhat.com> References: <200701111744.38417.jkeating@redhat.com> Message-ID: <20070128182204.GA9081@redhat.com> On Thu, Jan 11, 2007 at 05:44:38PM -0500, Jesse Keating wrote: > http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Releases/FeatureFedoraDesktop > > This is a first rough draft at what packages to include in the Desktop spin. > (not visible) > hdparm Is this really vital for core? If a chipset isn't auto-enabling DMA these days, it's a kernel bug that really should be fixed. And I can't think of any other must-have reasons for hdparm. > (visible) > crash belongs in a 'development' group or the like, but there doesn't seem to be one. Hmm? I'd put this wherever binutils/gdb/gcc are, which doesn't seem to be 'base'. > diskdumputils This should be dropped. The kernel bits haven't been present for some time now. > gnome-power-manager (does this go with Desktop instead?) I'd say yes today, given the absense of a system wide power daemon. > mcelog Should be core. This is as important as say, fsck. > mdadm When this list says 'visible' does that mean "offered as a choice in package set" ? Anaconda has the knowledge to know whether or not it will need this post-boot so this shouldn't need to be asked about. Dave -- http://www.codemonkey.org.uk From davej at redhat.com Sun Jan 28 18:34:48 2007 From: davej at redhat.com (Dave Jones) Date: Sun, 28 Jan 2007 13:34:48 -0500 Subject: Desktop spin, missing things In-Reply-To: <200701131524.37767.jkeating@redhat.com> References: <1168719109.13904.14.camel@localhost.localdomain> <200701131524.37767.jkeating@redhat.com> Message-ID: <20070128183448.GC9081@redhat.com> On Sat, Jan 13, 2007 at 03:24:34PM -0500, Jesse Keating wrote: > > The following may be handy and/or required in certain situations, > > not sure: > > poppler-utils > > psutils > > dcraw > > a2ps > > ftp > > ppp > > bluez-pin > > nscd > > If they were 'required' they would get pulled in via rpm requirements no? If we don't include ppp on the CD, it'll be somewhat hard for people on dialup to download the ppp daemon from the internet. Probably nothing 'requires' it, but its a prerequisite for anyone with no better connectivity. Dave -- http://www.codemonkey.org.uk From davej at redhat.com Sun Jan 28 18:37:08 2007 From: davej at redhat.com (Dave Jones) Date: Sun, 28 Jan 2007 13:37:08 -0500 Subject: New comps and full package list In-Reply-To: <200701241228.26576.jkeating@redhat.com> References: <200701131536.52412.jkeating@redhat.com> <200701131606.07585.jkeating@redhat.com> <1169659555.25492.50.camel@wombat.tiptoe.de> <200701241228.26576.jkeating@redhat.com> Message-ID: <20070128183708.GD9081@redhat.com> On Wed, Jan 24, 2007 at 12:28:26PM -0500, Jesse Keating wrote: > On Wednesday 24 January 2007 12:25, Nils Philippsen wrote: > > how about a "virt-guest" group then? IMO not every "normal" desktop user > > should schlep around kernel-xen when he won't touch virtualization ever. > > I went back to using the master comps file from FC6 (plus some updates for > F7). No kernel should be picked by default, anaconda will decide, based on > hardware arch, and whether or not the virt group was selected. This should > accomplish your needs. Do I read this correctly as "if you choose virtualisation you _only_ get kernel-xen" ? This has been a pain in the ass for me getting kernel bug reports where "the kernel won't boot, I did a reinstall without virtualisation and now the problem went away". Whilst kernel-xen needs fixing in those situations, not having a backup 'bare metal' kernel installed is really irritating, forcing users to have to go through a reinstall again (or in some cases, to give up and go install a different distro that 'works') Dave -- http://www.codemonkey.org.uk From nicolas.mailhot at laposte.net Sun Jan 28 20:19:28 2007 From: nicolas.mailhot at laposte.net (Nicolas Mailhot) Date: Sun, 28 Jan 2007 21:19:28 +0100 Subject: Starting point for package list for Fedora 7 Desktop spin In-Reply-To: <20070128182204.GA9081@redhat.com> References: <200701111744.38417.jkeating@redhat.com> <20070128182204.GA9081@redhat.com> Message-ID: <1170015568.5702.11.camel@rousalka.dyndns.org> Le dimanche 28 janvier 2007 ? 13:22 -0500, Dave Jones a ?crit : > On Thu, Jan 11, 2007 at 05:44:38PM -0500, Jesse Keating wrote: > > http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Releases/FeatureFedoraDesktop > > > > This is a first rough draft at what packages to include in the Desktop spin. > > > (not visible) > > hdparm > > Is this really vital for core? If a chipset isn't auto-enabling DMA these days, > it's a kernel bug that really should be fixed. And I can't think of > any other must-have reasons for hdparm. setting accoustic management for a drive (since the default is always fast-loud-benchmarking mode) > > mdadm > > When this list says 'visible' does that mean "offered as a choice in package set" ? > Anaconda has the knowledge to know whether or not it will need this post-boot > so this shouldn't need to be asked about. mdadm should just be there by default -- Nicolas Mailhot -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: signature.asc Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 197 bytes Desc: Ceci est une partie de message num?riquement sign?e URL: From drago01 at gmail.com Mon Jan 29 09:20:35 2007 From: drago01 at gmail.com (dragoran) Date: Mon, 29 Jan 2007 10:20:35 +0100 Subject: No gcc in desktop spin? Message-ID: <45BDBC63.6040402@gmail.com> Hello, I have read the list here: http://people.redhat.com/jkeating/f7-desktop.list And there seems to be no gcc Desktop users want to develop and compile things, so I think this should go in. Reasons for not including it? From sundaram at fedoraproject.org Mon Jan 29 09:18:37 2007 From: sundaram at fedoraproject.org (Rahul Sundaram) Date: Mon, 29 Jan 2007 14:48:37 +0530 Subject: No gcc in desktop spin? In-Reply-To: <45BDBC63.6040402@gmail.com> References: <45BDBC63.6040402@gmail.com> Message-ID: <45BDBBED.5070209@fedoraproject.org> dragoran wrote: > Hello, > I have read the list here: > http://people.redhat.com/jkeating/f7-desktop.list > And there seems to be no gcc > Desktop users want to develop and compile things, so I think this should > go in. > Reasons for not including it? If you are compiling and developing things, you would fall outside the scope of a typical desktop user. You can always do a yum install if you need it. Don't turn the desktop spin into Fedora Core all over again. Rahul From drago01 at gmail.com Mon Jan 29 09:18:58 2007 From: drago01 at gmail.com (dragoran) Date: Mon, 29 Jan 2007 10:18:58 +0100 Subject: No gcc in desktop spin? Message-ID: <45BDBC02.4090304@gmail.com> Hello, I have read the list here: http://people.redhat.com/jkeating/f7-desktop.list And there seems to be no gcc Desktop users want to develop and compile things, so I think this should go in. Reasons for not including it? From drago01 at gmail.com Mon Jan 29 09:42:34 2007 From: drago01 at gmail.com (dragoran) Date: Mon, 29 Jan 2007 10:42:34 +0100 Subject: No gcc in desktop spin? In-Reply-To: <45BDBBED.5070209@fedoraproject.org> References: <45BDBC63.6040402@gmail.com> <45BDBBED.5070209@fedoraproject.org> Message-ID: <45BDC18A.7030304@gmail.com> Rahul Sundaram wrote: > dragoran wrote: >> Hello, >> I have read the list here: >> http://people.redhat.com/jkeating/f7-desktop.list >> And there seems to be no gcc >> Desktop users want to develop and compile things, so I think this should >> go in. >> Reasons for not including it? > > If you are compiling and developing things, you would fall outside the > scope of a typical desktop user. You can always do a yum install if > you need it. Don't turn the desktop spin into Fedora Core all over again. > We should somehow define what we mean by "Desktop"... What is desktop user? Someone who browse the web and write documents? Someone who play games? --> everything for them is in Developers? -->missing stuff... Most people develop on desktop systems not on servers ;) > Rahul > From sundaram at fedoraproject.org Mon Jan 29 09:59:48 2007 From: sundaram at fedoraproject.org (Rahul Sundaram) Date: Mon, 29 Jan 2007 15:29:48 +0530 Subject: No gcc in desktop spin? In-Reply-To: <45BDC18A.7030304@gmail.com> References: <45BDBC63.6040402@gmail.com> <45BDBBED.5070209@fedoraproject.org> <45BDC18A.7030304@gmail.com> Message-ID: <45BDC594.1090000@fedoraproject.org> dragoran wrote: > Rahul Sundaram wrote: >> dragoran wrote: >>> Hello, >>> I have read the list here: >>> http://people.redhat.com/jkeating/f7-desktop.list >>> And there seems to be no gcc >>> Desktop users want to develop and compile things, so I think this should >>> go in. >>> Reasons for not including it? >> >> If you are compiling and developing things, you would fall outside the >> scope of a typical desktop user. You can always do a yum install if >> you need it. Don't turn the desktop spin into Fedora Core all over again. >> > We should somehow define what we mean by "Desktop"... > What is desktop user? > Someone who browse the web and write documents? > Someone who play games? The above. Rahul From chabotc at xs4all.nl Mon Jan 29 11:03:48 2007 From: chabotc at xs4all.nl (Chris Chabot) Date: Mon, 29 Jan 2007 12:03:48 +0100 (CET) Subject: Problems trying to make a pungi fc7 test 1 spin Message-ID: <20302.80.95.161.253.1170068628.squirrel@webmail.xs4all.nl> Whenever i try to run pungi (0.2.1-1), either straight from command line, or following the directions on 'running pungi in mock', i get the following error: Downloading openoffice.org-calc-2.1.0-6.13.i386.rpm Traceback (most recent call last): File "/usr/bin/pungi", line 166, in ? main() File "/usr/bin/pungi", line 95, in main mygather.downloadPackages() File "/usr/lib/python2.4/site-packages/pypungi/gather.py", line 194, in downloadPackages os.link(local, os.path.join(pkgdir, os.path.basename(remote))) OSError: [Errno 17] File exists Anyone have any idea how to get past this hurdle? Thanks, -- Chris Chabot From vnpenguin at vnoss.org Mon Jan 29 13:19:15 2007 From: vnpenguin at vnoss.org (Vnpenguin) Date: Mon, 29 Jan 2007 14:19:15 +0100 Subject: No gcc in desktop spin? In-Reply-To: <45BDC594.1090000@fedoraproject.org> References: <45BDBC63.6040402@gmail.com> <45BDBBED.5070209@fedoraproject.org> <45BDC18A.7030304@gmail.com> <45BDC594.1090000@fedoraproject.org> Message-ID: On 1/29/07, Rahul Sundaram wrote: > dragoran wrote: > > Rahul Sundaram wrote: > >> dragoran wrote: > >>> Hello, > >>> I have read the list here: > >>> http://people.redhat.com/jkeating/f7-desktop.list > >>> And there seems to be no gcc > >>> Desktop users want to develop and compile things, so I think this should > >>> go in. > >>> Reasons for not including it? > >> > >> If you are compiling and developing things, you would fall outside the > >> scope of a typical desktop user. You can always do a yum install if > >> you need it. Don't turn the desktop spin into Fedora Core all over again. > >> > > We should somehow define what we mean by "Desktop"... > > What is desktop user? > > Someone who browse the web and write documents? > > Someone who play games? > I vote NO for gcc in desktop spin. -- http://vnoss.org From jkeating at redhat.com Mon Jan 29 14:15:13 2007 From: jkeating at redhat.com (Jesse Keating) Date: Mon, 29 Jan 2007 09:15:13 -0500 Subject: Problems trying to make a pungi fc7 test 1 spin In-Reply-To: <20302.80.95.161.253.1170068628.squirrel@webmail.xs4all.nl> References: <20302.80.95.161.253.1170068628.squirrel@webmail.xs4all.nl> Message-ID: <200701290915.19326.jkeating@redhat.com> On Monday 29 January 2007 06:03, Chris Chabot wrote: > Whenever i try to run pungi (0.2.1-1), either straight from command line, > or following the directions on 'running pungi in mock', i get the > following error: > > Downloading openoffice.org-calc-2.1.0-6.13.i386.rpm > Traceback (most recent call last): > ? File "/usr/bin/pungi", line 166, in ? > ? ? main() > ? File "/usr/bin/pungi", line 95, in main > ? ? mygather.downloadPackages() > ? File "/usr/lib/python2.4/site-packages/pypungi/gather.py", line 194, in > downloadPackages > ? ? os.link(local, os.path.join(pkgdir, os.path.basename(remote))) > OSError: [Errno 17] File exists > > Anyone have any idea how to get past this hurdle? This looks like the second time you've tried to run pungi, and it has already written some files out into your destination directory. Pungi expects a clean destination directory (and a clean work directory I think). -- Jesse Keating Release Engineer: Fedora -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 189 bytes Desc: not available URL: From ashwin.hambarde at gmail.com Mon Jan 29 15:02:14 2007 From: ashwin.hambarde at gmail.com (Ashwin Hambarde) Date: Mon, 29 Jan 2007 20:32:14 +0530 Subject: No gcc in desktop spin? In-Reply-To: References: <45BDBC63.6040402@gmail.com> <45BDBBED.5070209@fedoraproject.org> <45BDC18A.7030304@gmail.com> <45BDC594.1090000@fedoraproject.org> Message-ID: I really think gcc is a must and that too a the complete version because many users have installed Fedora but don't have internet connection, sometimes so slow that they can't YUM all the packages they need then it would be nice & easy for them to simply compile the old versions of tarballs they have. I am sure most of them would have build them a lot of time....Don't you think so ? On 1/29/07, Vnpenguin wrote: > > On 1/29/07, Rahul Sundaram wrote: > > dragoran wrote: > > > Rahul Sundaram wrote: > > >> dragoran wrote: > > >>> Hello, > > >>> I have read the list here: > > >>> http://people.redhat.com/jkeating/f7-desktop.list > > >>> And there seems to be no gcc > > >>> Desktop users want to develop and compile things, so I think this > should > > >>> go in. > > >>> Reasons for not including it? > > >> > > >> If you are compiling and developing things, you would fall outside > the > > >> scope of a typical desktop user. You can always do a yum install if > > >> you need it. Don't turn the desktop spin into Fedora Core all over > again. > > >> > > > We should somehow define what we mean by "Desktop"... > > > What is desktop user? > > > Someone who browse the web and write documents? > > > Someone who play games? > > > > I vote NO for gcc in desktop spin. > > -- > http://vnoss.org > > -- > Fedora-desktop-list mailing list > Fedora-desktop-list at redhat.com > https://www.redhat.com/mailman/listinfo/fedora-desktop-list > -- Ashwin Hambarde -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From f_estremera at yahoo.com Tue Jan 30 00:24:30 2007 From: f_estremera at yahoo.com (FRANCISCO ESTREMERA) Date: Mon, 29 Jan 2007 16:24:30 -0800 (PST) Subject: No gcc in desktop spin? In-Reply-To: <45BDBBED.5070209@fedoraproject.org> Message-ID: <882111.91452.qm@web54602.mail.yahoo.com> Dear Rahul, I have installed Fedora Core 6 in two of my PC's. The shutdown process seems incomplete since the system stays idle with a message of "System Halted". I have to physically unplug the PC from the main power for full shut down. MY first PC is a old one, however the second one is a MB Shuttle MB, 2.2 wrote: dragoran wrote: > Hello, > I have read the list here: > http://people.redhat.com/jkeating/f7-desktop.list > And there seems to be no gcc > Desktop users want to develop and compile things, so I think this should > go in. > Reasons for not including it? If you are compiling and developing things, you would fall outside the scope of a typical desktop user. You can always do a yum install if you need it. Don't turn the desktop spin into Fedora Core all over again. Rahul -- Fedora-desktop-list mailing list Fedora-desktop-list at redhat.com https://www.redhat.com/mailman/listinfo/fedora-desktop-list Francisco Estremera, MS "The realization of ignorance is the first act of knowing." Jean Toomer (1894 - 1967); US author, poet. --------------------------------- Cheap Talk? Check out Yahoo! Messenger's low PC-to-Phone call rates. -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From drago01 at gmail.com Tue Jan 30 07:39:24 2007 From: drago01 at gmail.com (dragoran) Date: Tue, 30 Jan 2007 08:39:24 +0100 Subject: No gcc in desktop spin? In-Reply-To: <882111.91452.qm@web54602.mail.yahoo.com> References: <882111.91452.qm@web54602.mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <45BEF62C.7050105@gmail.com> FRANCISCO ESTREMERA wrote: > Dear Rahul, > > I have installed Fedora Core 6 in two of my PC's. The shutdown process seems incomplete since the system stays idle with a message of "System Halted". I have to physically unplug the PC from the main power for full shut down. > > MY first PC is a old one, however the second one is a MB Shuttle MB, 2.2 > Any hints? Do U expect that Fedora Core 7 my resolve this problem? > > Thanks, > > 1) wrong thread 2) file a bug against the kernel does it work if you disable acpi? From roguexz at gmail.com Wed Jan 31 21:17:58 2007 From: roguexz at gmail.com (Rogue) Date: Thu, 01 Feb 2007 02:47:58 +0530 Subject: Better Bluetooth Integration on the Desktop Message-ID: <45C10786.8050300@gmail.com> An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From dcbw at redhat.com Wed Jan 31 21:34:01 2007 From: dcbw at redhat.com (Dan Williams) Date: Wed, 31 Jan 2007 16:34:01 -0500 Subject: Better Bluetooth Integration on the Desktop In-Reply-To: <45C10786.8050300@gmail.com> References: <45C10786.8050300@gmail.com> Message-ID: <1170279241.16085.51.camel@localhost.localdomain> On Thu, 2007-02-01 at 02:47 +0530, Rogue wrote: > Hi All, > > A few days ago, I was trying to talk to some friends over Skype. And > was I in for a shock or what. I have FC 6 running on my Dell D810, and > I do not have an in-built mic. So i decided to connect my blue-tooth > headset to the system and use it for communicating, but I realized > that I couldn't do it easily! > > Then I tried connecting an external headset (wired), and ran around a > lot of articles to figure out that I needed to turn on some settings > in the volume-controls, and though i could hear what I was screaming > into the mic (back into the earphones) I could not get it to work and > by then i had given up and decided to use the landline instead. > > Now, coming back to the point, since both Windows and Mac provide an > easy to use interface when it comes to consuming external bluetooth > devices, I feel that we should also provide a similar interface. > Something that will help ease out the usability aspects of the > desktop. "Easy" is relative here, the OS X interface for using a device as a modem over Bluetooth (ie, Dial-Up Networking) still has a ways to go, and various 3rd-party software that I've used on Windows sucks too. I personally think we can do somewhat better. But you're right, basically everything Bluetooth sucks right now from a user-experience perspective in Linux. I shouldn't have to touch config files to set up dialup networking. Dan From roguexz at gmail.com Wed Jan 31 22:20:57 2007 From: roguexz at gmail.com (Rogue) Date: Thu, 01 Feb 2007 03:50:57 +0530 Subject: Better Bluetooth Integration on the Desktop In-Reply-To: <1170279241.16085.51.camel@localhost.localdomain> References: <45C10786.8050300@gmail.com> <1170279241.16085.51.camel@localhost.localdomain> Message-ID: <45C11649.7060600@gmail.com> An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: