From valent.turkovic at gmail.com Mon Jul 2 18:46:19 2007 From: valent.turkovic at gmail.com (Valent Turkovic) Date: Mon, 2 Jul 2007 20:46:19 +0200 Subject: how to install online-desktop? Message-ID: <64b14b300707021146j8468737i5db39207381633ab@mail.gmail.com> How can one install online-desktop? by reading instructions on this link: http://developer.mugshot.org/wiki/Online_Desktop_Project it looks like simple "yum install online-desktop" should work, but on my system it says that there are no such packages. Is my system miss configured? Am I missing some yum repository? Or are author of this page a little ahead of them selves? -- http://kernelreloaded.blog385.com/ linux, blog, anime, spirituality, windsurf, wireless registered as user #367004 with the Linux Counter, http://counter.li.org. ICQ: 2125241 Skype: valent.turkovic From mclasen at redhat.com Mon Jul 2 18:41:57 2007 From: mclasen at redhat.com (Matthias Clasen) Date: Mon, 02 Jul 2007 14:41:57 -0400 Subject: how to install online-desktop? In-Reply-To: <64b14b300707021146j8468737i5db39207381633ab@mail.gmail.com> References: <64b14b300707021146j8468737i5db39207381633ab@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <1183401717.4318.3.camel@dhcp83-186.boston.redhat.com> On Mon, 2007-07-02 at 20:46 +0200, Valent Turkovic wrote: > How can one install online-desktop? > > by reading instructions on this link: > http://developer.mugshot.org/wiki/Online_Desktop_Project > > it looks like simple "yum install online-desktop" should work, but on > my system it says that there are no such packages. > > Is my system miss configured? Am I missing some yum repository? Or are > author of this page a little ahead of them selves? > You need to tell us a little bit more about your system for us to be able to tell if it is misconfigured... like what Fedora release it is running, etc. Also, please don't cross-post. Thanks From walters at redhat.com Mon Jul 2 19:45:35 2007 From: walters at redhat.com (Colin Walters) Date: Mon, 02 Jul 2007 15:45:35 -0400 Subject: how to install online-desktop? In-Reply-To: <64b14b300707021146j8468737i5db39207381633ab@mail.gmail.com> References: <64b14b300707021146j8468737i5db39207381633ab@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <1183405536.2705.19.camel@neutron.verbum.private> On Mon, 2007-07-02 at 20:46 +0200, Valent Turkovic wrote: > How can one install online-desktop? > > by reading instructions on this link: > http://developer.mugshot.org/wiki/Online_Desktop_Project > > it looks like simple "yum install online-desktop" should work, but on > my system it says that there are no such packages. It's been in updates-testing; I was going to push a while ago but things have been shuffling a lot up until recently. Here is how you do it: yum --enablerepo=updates-testing install online-desktop There are much newer versions of things that are queued to update in the next few days. From valent.turkovic at gmail.com Mon Jul 2 21:24:07 2007 From: valent.turkovic at gmail.com (Valent Turkovic) Date: Mon, 2 Jul 2007 23:24:07 +0200 Subject: Here are some of my ideas for Fedora 8 and Fedora 9 Message-ID: <64b14b300707021424u4831a539gcf9a589d9a6d16e5@mail.gmail.com> Hi, here are some of my ideas in which I see that Fedora can improve general user and desktop experience and usability. I would like you to see my comment and suggestion in the manner I made them - I don't mean to be a critic but only an objective observer that loves usind Fedora at home and also at work and would like to see more people do so - and I belive that with some of ideas I have here more people would use Fedora and be more productive. * NTFS support during installation there should be NTFS support built in to anaconda so that ntfs partitions are automatically recognized and added to /etc/fstab - and that users are given an option to make them read-only or to be mounted in read-write mode. * Beagle and Deskbar installed by default these applications make all the difference for an desktop user between an "OK" user experience and "wonderful" user experience. Work flow using these two applications is radically improved and this is what should be showcased as a "Modern linux desktop". - also I would add a beagle firefox plugin which also makes all the difference when you need some resource you saw online but didn't bookmark it or put it on del.ico.us - these apps don't waste resources, and the memory footprint is really not that much, especially if put in context that you really have to look hard these days for a system that has less or equal to 256MB of memory. I tested beagle on 3 laptop systems with fedora 6 / 7 and one desktop with also fedora 6 / 7 and I didn't have a single issue. So for me not to have in installed in Fedora 7 was a big disappointment. * Tomboy installed by default - I have all the same arguments here as I do for Beagle and Deskbar * Firefox to have it's original icon in gnome panel the icon fedora uses makes me search for firefox icon all the time. I guess that I'm not the only one. Firefox has one of the most recognisable icons I have ever seen and simply don't see why fedora uses non-firefox icon. It just confuses users. * Desktop shortcut for joining Fedora IRC (aka "Get Live Help") Fedora is about freedom+communication, right? Why not make this statement more that just a nice slogan. If you installed saabyon linux you could experienced for yourself what this really means. I as a new user to gentoo (sabayon is based on gentoo) was really blown away with this feature. It is really, really simple to implement and gives a real meaning to a communication friendly linux distro. In sabayon link to their IRC chat has a simple name "Get Live Help" and it work fabulous! I didn't have any Portage experience so I poped in IRC chat room and was on my way after I got quick help. Whis kind of help was precious to me and would love to see it in fedora as one of it's main features and not just as a slogan. screenshot: http://www.flickr.com/photo_zoom.gne?id=382063978&size=l * Desktop folder with examples of what "this linux thing" can do :) This is especially important for a live cd versions. Ubuntu has this "feature" on each of their live cd's as a folder on desktop. In these folder you can see and test for yourself some filetypes and apps that work woth them. So for example you open examples folder and see how some spreadsheets work in "this linux thing" by simply clicking on the spreadsheat that they placed in there and also for some text documents, images and the most important thing - there is an video clip. And it is a really nice video about the meaning of Ubuntu project. I saw some great videos on redhat magazine page and it is a shame that these aren't part of Fedora 7 live cd's. I hope you see the great value in video presentation and include some great videos on Fedora 8 live CD. ubuntu examples: http://johnny.chadda.se/wp-content/uploads/2006/06/Ubuntu_Examples.png and another: http://knowledge76.com/images/thumb/800px-Dapper_examples.png * a working Burning app for Fedora Gnome desktop Put any new user in front of fresh Fedora 7 desktop and ask them to burn some files to CD or DVD - any watch them as they wiggle unpleasantly as they can't find any burning app under gnome desktop. Puting a link for nautils burner under "Places / CD - DVD Recoder" doesn't help. If you choose atleast not to include Brassero as the default burning app under gnome then at least thre should be a link for "CD Recoder" placed somewhere under "Applications" menu and not "Places" menu. I have some other ideas, suggestions and improvements I would love to see but these are the main ones. I hope you see all of my suggestions to Fedora desktop in the manner they were written - as my intention was to be as objective as possible and not to be a critic. I love Fedora and it is definitely by my opinion the best distro for Desktop users (yes, even better than Ubuntu). Valent. -- http://kernelreloaded.blog385.com/ linux, blog, anime, spirituality, windsurf, wireless registered as user #367004 with the Linux Counter, http://counter.li.org. ICQ: 2125241 Skype: valent.turkovic From valent.turkovic at gmail.com Mon Jul 2 21:29:39 2007 From: valent.turkovic at gmail.com (Valent Turkovic) Date: Mon, 2 Jul 2007 23:29:39 +0200 Subject: how to install online-desktop? In-Reply-To: <1183401717.4318.3.camel@dhcp83-186.boston.redhat.com> References: <64b14b300707021146j8468737i5db39207381633ab@mail.gmail.com> <1183401717.4318.3.camel@dhcp83-186.boston.redhat.com> Message-ID: <64b14b300707021429k512df092y7494a0c72ac6133e@mail.gmail.com> I posted to different mailing lists, is this also cross-posting? I thought it is not. Sorry than for my latest email went to almost all lists, but only one by one. I have Fedora 7 with default yum repositories. On 7/2/07, Matthias Clasen wrote: > On Mon, 2007-07-02 at 20:46 +0200, Valent Turkovic wrote: > > How can one install online-desktop? > > > > by reading instructions on this link: > > http://developer.mugshot.org/wiki/Online_Desktop_Project > > > > it looks like simple "yum install online-desktop" should work, but on > > my system it says that there are no such packages. > > > > Is my system miss configured? Am I missing some yum repository? Or are > > author of this page a little ahead of them selves? > > > > You need to tell us a little bit more about your system for us to be > able to tell if it is misconfigured... like what Fedora release it is > running, etc. > > Also, please don't cross-post. > > Thanks > > -- > Fedora-desktop-list mailing list > Fedora-desktop-list at redhat.com > https://www.redhat.com/mailman/listinfo/fedora-desktop-list > -- http://kernelreloaded.blog385.com/ linux, blog, anime, spirituality, windsurf, wireless registered as user #367004 with the Linux Counter, http://counter.li.org. ICQ: 2125241 Skype: valent.turkovic From jdennis at redhat.com Mon Jul 2 21:30:36 2007 From: jdennis at redhat.com (John Dennis) Date: Mon, 02 Jul 2007 17:30:36 -0400 Subject: Here are some of my ideas for Fedora 8 and Fedora 9 In-Reply-To: <64b14b300707021424u4831a539gcf9a589d9a6d16e5@mail.gmail.com> References: <64b14b300707021424u4831a539gcf9a589d9a6d16e5@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <1183411836.8532.138.camel@finch.boston.redhat.com> On Mon, 2007-07-02 at 23:24 +0200, Valent Turkovic wrote: > I as a new user to gentoo (sabayon is based on gentoo) I'm not sure what you actually meant by this but just a minor clarification, sabayon was written by Red Hat. -- John Dennis From katzj at redhat.com Mon Jul 2 21:34:10 2007 From: katzj at redhat.com (Jeremy Katz) Date: Mon, 02 Jul 2007 17:34:10 -0400 Subject: Here are some of my ideas for Fedora 8 and Fedora 9 In-Reply-To: <1183411836.8532.138.camel@finch.boston.redhat.com> References: <64b14b300707021424u4831a539gcf9a589d9a6d16e5@mail.gmail.com> <1183411836.8532.138.camel@finch.boston.redhat.com> Message-ID: <1183412050.9824.3.camel@erebor.boston.redhat.com> On Mon, 2007-07-02 at 17:30 -0400, John Dennis wrote: > On Mon, 2007-07-02 at 23:24 +0200, Valent Turkovic wrote: > > I as a new user to gentoo (sabayon is based on gentoo) > > I'm not sure what you actually meant by this but just a minor > clarification, sabayon was written by Red Hat. Namespace collision. sabayon the tool written by Red Hat != sabayon the distro derived from Gentoo. Jeremy From rstrode at redhat.com Mon Jul 2 21:44:07 2007 From: rstrode at redhat.com (Ray Strode) Date: Mon, 02 Jul 2007 17:44:07 -0400 Subject: Here are some of my ideas for Fedora 8 and Fedora 9 In-Reply-To: <1183412050.9824.3.camel@erebor.boston.redhat.com> References: <64b14b300707021424u4831a539gcf9a589d9a6d16e5@mail.gmail.com> <1183411836.8532.138.camel@finch.boston.redhat.com> <1183412050.9824.3.camel@erebor.boston.redhat.com> Message-ID: <468971A7.8010800@redhat.com> Hi, > On Mon, 2007-07-02 at 17:30 -0400, John Dennis wrote: > > On Mon, 2007-07-02 at 23:24 +0200, Valent Turkovic wrote: > > > I as a new user to gentoo (sabayon is based on gentoo) > > > > I'm not sure what you actually meant by this but just a minor > > clarification, sabayon was written by Red Hat. > > Namespace collision. > > sabayon the tool written by Red Hat != sabayon the distro derived from > Gentoo. And just to add to the confusion, Novell now maintains (upstream I mean) the sabayon we wrote, and the upstream maintainer (Federico) used to work at Red Hat a long time ago, but he wasn't one of the original authors of sabayon. --Ray From mclasen at redhat.com Mon Jul 2 21:54:09 2007 From: mclasen at redhat.com (Matthias Clasen) Date: Mon, 02 Jul 2007 17:54:09 -0400 Subject: Here are some of my ideas for Fedora 8 and Fedora 9 In-Reply-To: <64b14b300707021424u4831a539gcf9a589d9a6d16e5@mail.gmail.com> References: <64b14b300707021424u4831a539gcf9a589d9a6d16e5@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <1183413249.12168.0.camel@localhost.localdomain> Please don't cross-post. I think I've already said that today. From valent.turkovic at gmail.com Mon Jul 2 22:07:56 2007 From: valent.turkovic at gmail.com (Valent Turkovic) Date: Tue, 3 Jul 2007 00:07:56 +0200 Subject: Here are some of my ideas for Fedora 8 and Fedora 9 In-Reply-To: <1183413249.12168.0.camel@localhost.localdomain> References: <64b14b300707021424u4831a539gcf9a589d9a6d16e5@mail.gmail.com> <1183413249.12168.0.camel@localhost.localdomain> Message-ID: <64b14b300707021507s3886b59aj74ba9f0454fb4f3a@mail.gmail.com> We have, but I read it after I sent this email. But I really believe that this mail should be on more than just one mailing list. On 7/2/07, Matthias Clasen wrote: > Please don't cross-post. I think I've already said that today. > > > -- > Fedora-desktop-list mailing list > Fedora-desktop-list at redhat.com > https://www.redhat.com/mailman/listinfo/fedora-desktop-list > -- http://kernelreloaded.blog385.com/ linux, blog, anime, spirituality, windsurf, wireless registered as user #367004 with the Linux Counter, http://counter.li.org. ICQ: 2125241 Skype: valent.turkovic From sundaram at fedoraproject.org Tue Jul 3 09:47:05 2007 From: sundaram at fedoraproject.org (Rahul Sundaram) Date: Tue, 03 Jul 2007 15:17:05 +0530 Subject: how to install online-desktop? In-Reply-To: <64b14b300707021429k512df092y7494a0c72ac6133e@mail.gmail.com> References: <64b14b300707021146j8468737i5db39207381633ab@mail.gmail.com> <1183401717.4318.3.camel@dhcp83-186.boston.redhat.com> <64b14b300707021429k512df092y7494a0c72ac6133e@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <468A1B19.6000505@fedoraproject.org> Valent Turkovic wrote: > I posted to different mailing lists, is this also cross-posting? I > thought it is not. Sorry than for my latest email went to almost all > lists, but only one by one. That is unnecessary. Find the best list to ask the question and only ask in that list. Also don't top post. Rahul From sankarshan.mukhopadhyay at gmail.com Tue Jul 3 13:17:49 2007 From: sankarshan.mukhopadhyay at gmail.com (Sankarshan Mukhopadhyay) Date: Tue, 03 Jul 2007 18:47:49 +0530 Subject: how to install online-desktop? In-Reply-To: <64b14b300707021146j8468737i5db39207381633ab@mail.gmail.com> References: <64b14b300707021146j8468737i5db39207381633ab@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <468A4C7D.7050008@gmail.com> -----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- Hash: SHA1 Valent Turkovic wrote: > How can one install online-desktop? > > by reading instructions on this link: > http://developer.mugshot.org/wiki/Online_Desktop_Project > > it looks like simple "yum install online-desktop" should work, but on > my system it says that there are no such packages. It does not work - a yum list |grep online-desktop does not return anything. > Is my system miss configured? Am I missing some yum repository? Or are > author of this page a little ahead of them selves? For a stock Fedora 7 I hazard a guess that online-desktop/bigboard might not be in repo - try the sources - it works fine - -- You see things; and you say 'Why?'; But I dream things that never were; and I say 'Why not?' - George Bernard Shaw -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: GnuPG v1.4.7 (GNU/Linux) Comment: Using GnuPG with Fedora - http://enigmail.mozdev.org iD8DBQFGikx9XQZpNTcrCzMRAuGdAJ9+KPKAgSFHuMPK0uQyUPyLcwHQ2gCfe7nM BxPkqUsrpsi9tPwy8/nUr3E= =dzAv -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- From martin.sourada at seznam.cz Thu Jul 5 08:04:28 2007 From: martin.sourada at seznam.cz (Martin Sourada) Date: Thu, 05 Jul 2007 10:04:28 +0200 Subject: Making Fedora Default Theme (release independent stuff) Message-ID: <1183622668.2945.48.camel@pc-notebook> Hi, I am new to this list and subscribed mostly because I posted a message to art-list recently [1] that contains things that should be discussed at desktop-list as well. It's about making default theme for fedora - that means making our gtk/qt(4) theme, metacity/kwm/emerald theme, notification-daemon theme and maybe more. It should be release independent. There are some questions that need to be answered first. I attach the original message for more info. I'd like to ask you for your opinion about it. Thanks, Martin References: [1] https://www.redhat.com/archives/fedora-art-list/2007-July/msg00023.html -------------- next part -------------- An embedded message was scrubbed... From: =?us-ascii?Q?Martin=20Sourada?= Subject: Making Fedora Default Theme (release independent stuff) Date: Wed, 04 Jul 2007 22:29:43 +0200 (CEST) Size: 5258 URL: -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: signature.asc Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 189 bytes Desc: This is a digitally signed message part URL: From mandreiana.lists at gmail.com Sat Jul 7 10:52:24 2007 From: mandreiana.lists at gmail.com (Marius Andreiana) Date: Sat, 7 Jul 2007 13:52:24 +0300 Subject: speech recognition for simple commands Message-ID: <4bcf41a00707070352u1f0753f5y6a81c285d72da484@mail.gmail.com> Hi, Are there any plans on including speech recognition in Fedora? (using sphinx4 and at-spi maybe) I'm looking only to simple commands translation (click, page up, close window...), not full speech recognition. Thanks, -- Marius Andreiana From bnocera at redhat.com Sat Jul 7 12:01:41 2007 From: bnocera at redhat.com (Bastien Nocera) Date: Sat, 07 Jul 2007 13:01:41 +0100 Subject: speech recognition for simple commands In-Reply-To: <4bcf41a00707070352u1f0753f5y6a81c285d72da484@mail.gmail.com> References: <4bcf41a00707070352u1f0753f5y6a81c285d72da484@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <1183809701.8979.235.camel@cookie.hadess.net> On Sat, 2007-07-07 at 13:52 +0300, Marius Andreiana wrote: > Hi, > > Are there any plans on including speech recognition in Fedora? (using > sphinx4 and at-spi maybe) > I'm looking only to simple commands translation (click, page up, close > window...), not full speech recognition. There's a Google SoC project about it: http://code.google.com/soc/2007/gnome/appinfo.html?csaid=4F64D394968BB092 Cheers From mandreiana.lists at gmail.com Sun Jul 8 10:38:45 2007 From: mandreiana.lists at gmail.com (Marius Andreiana) Date: Sun, 08 Jul 2007 13:38:45 +0300 Subject: speech recognition for simple commands In-Reply-To: <1183809701.8979.235.camel@cookie.hadess.net> References: <4bcf41a00707070352u1f0753f5y6a81c285d72da484@mail.gmail.com> <1183809701.8979.235.camel@cookie.hadess.net> Message-ID: <1183891125.3437.2.camel@localhost.localdomain> On Sat, 2007-07-07 at 13:01 +0100, Bastien Nocera wrote: > On Sat, 2007-07-07 at 13:52 +0300, Marius Andreiana wrote: > > Hi, > > > > Are there any plans on including speech recognition in Fedora? (using > > sphinx4 and at-spi maybe) > > I'm looking only to simple commands translation (click, page up, close > > window...), not full speech recognition. > > There's a Google SoC project about it: > http://code.google.com/soc/2007/gnome/appinfo.html?csaid=4F64D394968BB092 Looks good! Nickolay, let me know if you need help with testing or anything else while you work on it, I'd love to see this implemented. -- Marius Andreiana http://marius.andreiana.googlepages.com From bnocera at redhat.com Mon Jul 9 15:08:52 2007 From: bnocera at redhat.com (Bastien Nocera) Date: Mon, 09 Jul 2007 16:08:52 +0100 Subject: speech recognition for simple commands In-Reply-To: <1183891125.3437.2.camel@localhost.localdomain> References: <4bcf41a00707070352u1f0753f5y6a81c285d72da484@mail.gmail.com> <1183809701.8979.235.camel@cookie.hadess.net> <1183891125.3437.2.camel@localhost.localdomain> Message-ID: <1183993732.4117.15.camel@cookie.hadess.net> On Sun, 2007-07-08 at 13:38 +0300, Marius Andreiana wrote: > On Sat, 2007-07-07 at 13:01 +0100, Bastien Nocera wrote: > > On Sat, 2007-07-07 at 13:52 +0300, Marius Andreiana wrote: > > > Hi, > > > > > > Are there any plans on including speech recognition in Fedora? (using > > > sphinx4 and at-spi maybe) > > > I'm looking only to simple commands translation (click, page up, close > > > window...), not full speech recognition. > > > > There's a Google SoC project about it: > > http://code.google.com/soc/2007/gnome/appinfo.html?csaid=4F64D394968BB092 > Looks good! > > Nickolay, let me know if you need help with testing or anything else > while you work on it, I'd love to see this implemented. Nickolay is the mentor, not the student working on the code. Raphael's already released code: http://raphaelnunes.wordpress.com/ Cheers From mclasen at redhat.com Mon Jul 9 16:37:11 2007 From: mclasen at redhat.com (Matthias Clasen) Date: Mon, 09 Jul 2007 12:37:11 -0400 Subject: Menu categories Message-ID: <1183999031.3532.2.camel@dhcp83-186.boston.redhat.com> Here is a quick braindump of some of the cleanup work that I have done on menu categorization post-F7. This information should maybe go into the packaging guidelines or somewhere else on the wiki at some point. - Applications vs System: The System menu is for anything that can be considered settings, anything else goes into the Applications menu. This can become somewhat fuzzy in the area of System Tools. To make a desktop file show up in the System menu, add the "Settings" category. Anything that does not have "Settings" goes into the Applications menu. The submenus of the Applications menu are tied to categories as follows: ("menu title" - category) "Accessories" - Utilities "Development" - Development "Education" - Education "Games" - Game "Graphics" - Graphics "Internet" - Network "Multimedia" - AudioVideo "Office" - Office "System Tools" - System "Other" - anything else - Preferences vs. Administration: Preferences is for per-user settings. Administration is for system-wide settings, therefore tools in the Administration menu typically require root access. To make an application show up in the Administration menu, use the categories "Settings, System". The Preferences menu is further subdivided into submenus by the following categories: "Personal" - X-GNOME-PersonalSettings "Look and Feel" - DesktopSettings "Internet and Network" - X-GNOME-NetworkSettings "Hardware" - HardwareSettings "System" - X-GNOME-SystemSettings To make an application show up in the Preferences submenus, use the category "Settings" plus one of the categories above. Please try to find the best category among these for your application. The menu works best if all items are in the submenus. This is even more important for the control-center shell, which uses the same categorization. Matthias From rstrode at redhat.com Mon Jul 9 16:47:43 2007 From: rstrode at redhat.com (Ray Strode) Date: Mon, 09 Jul 2007 12:47:43 -0400 Subject: Menu categories In-Reply-To: <1183999031.3532.2.camel@dhcp83-186.boston.redhat.com> References: <1183999031.3532.2.camel@dhcp83-186.boston.redhat.com> Message-ID: <469266AF.5020606@redhat.com> Hi, > To make an application show up in the Administration menu, > use the categories "Settings, System". > > To be clear that's Categories=Settings; System; or --add-category Settings --add-category System to desktop-file-install --Ray From roguexz at gmail.com Mon Jul 9 20:37:25 2007 From: roguexz at gmail.com (Rogue) Date: Tue, 10 Jul 2007 02:07:25 +0530 Subject: speech recognition for simple commands In-Reply-To: <1183993732.4117.15.camel@cookie.hadess.net> References: <4bcf41a00707070352u1f0753f5y6a81c285d72da484@mail.gmail.com> <1183809701.8979.235.camel@cookie.hadess.net> <1183891125.3437.2.camel@localhost.localdomain> <1183993732.4117.15.camel@cookie.hadess.net> Message-ID: <46929C85.2080204@gmail.com> Bastien Nocera wrote: > On Sun, 2007-07-08 at 13:38 +0300, Marius Andreiana wrote: > >> On Sat, 2007-07-07 at 13:01 +0100, Bastien Nocera wrote: >> >>> On Sat, 2007-07-07 at 13:52 +0300, Marius Andreiana wrote: >>> >>>> Hi, >>>> >>>> Are there any plans on including speech recognition in Fedora? (using >>>> sphinx4 and at-spi maybe) >>>> I'm looking only to simple commands translation (click, page up, close >>>> window...), not full speech recognition. >>>> >>> There's a Google SoC project about it: >>> http://code.google.com/soc/2007/gnome/appinfo.html?csaid=4F64D394968BB092 >>> >> Looks good! >> >> Nickolay, let me know if you need help with testing or anything else >> while you work on it, I'd love to see this implemented. >> > > Nickolay is the mentor, not the student working on the code. > > Raphael's already released code: > http://raphaelnunes.wordpress.com/ > > Cheers > > Interesting. I have always wondered if we would have a similar application for the Linux system, especially after I had experienced the Mac OSX speech-recognition system :-) Just wondering, do we have a RPM package file for this? thanks, Rogue From roguexz at gmail.com Tue Jul 10 05:22:27 2007 From: roguexz at gmail.com (Rogue) Date: Tue, 10 Jul 2007 10:52:27 +0530 Subject: speech recognition for simple commands In-Reply-To: <46929C85.2080204@gmail.com> References: <4bcf41a00707070352u1f0753f5y6a81c285d72da484@mail.gmail.com> <1183809701.8979.235.camel@cookie.hadess.net> <1183891125.3437.2.camel@localhost.localdomain> <1183993732.4117.15.camel@cookie.hadess.net> <46929C85.2080204@gmail.com> Message-ID: <46931793.4090906@gmail.com> Rogue wrote: > Bastien Nocera wrote: >> On Sun, 2007-07-08 at 13:38 +0300, Marius Andreiana wrote: >> >>> On Sat, 2007-07-07 at 13:01 +0100, Bastien Nocera wrote: >>> >>>> On Sat, 2007-07-07 at 13:52 +0300, Marius Andreiana wrote: >>>> >>>>> Hi, >>>>> >>>>> Are there any plans on including speech recognition in Fedora? (using >>>>> sphinx4 and at-spi maybe) >>>>> I'm looking only to simple commands translation (click, page up, >>>>> close >>>>> window...), not full speech recognition. >>>>> >>>> There's a Google SoC project about it: >>>> http://code.google.com/soc/2007/gnome/appinfo.html?csaid=4F64D394968BB092 >>>> >>>> >>> Looks good! >>> >>> Nickolay, let me know if you need help with testing or anything else >>> while you work on it, I'd love to see this implemented. >>> >> >> Nickolay is the mentor, not the student working on the code. >> >> Raphael's already released code: >> http://raphaelnunes.wordpress.com/ >> >> Cheers >> >> > Interesting. I have always wondered if we would have a similar > application for the Linux system, especially after I had experienced > the Mac OSX speech-recognition system :-) > > Just wondering, do we have a RPM package file for this? > > thanks, > Rogue > I just tried to make a build locally on my machine and I see that there are a whole lot of compilation errors (mainly with shinx)! Shall look into the errors later on. But in case someone else has managed to build this successfully, then help would be greatly appreciated. later, Rogue From rdieter at math.unl.edu Tue Jul 10 18:09:53 2007 From: rdieter at math.unl.edu (Rex Dieter) Date: Tue, 10 Jul 2007 13:09:53 -0500 Subject: gtk-update-icon-cache scriptlet output? Message-ID: Currently, http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Packaging/ScriptletSnippets#head-7103f6c38d1b5735e8477bdd569ad73ea2c49bda recommends including scriptlet: %{_bindir}/gtk-update-icon-cache --quiet %{_datadir}/icons/hicolor || : but *not* adding any Requires: for this. A consequence is that when/if gtk-update-icon-cache is not available, the existing scriptlet generates error output. 2 fixes come to mind: 1. ignore all output: (line wrapped) %{_bindir}/gtk-update-icon-cache %{_datadir}/icons/hicolor \ >& /dev/null || : 2. wrap, allow for real errors to display: if [ -x %{_bindir}/gtk-update-icon-cache ]; then %{_bindir}/gtk-update-icon-cache --quiet %{_datadir}/icons/hicolor ||: fi Any opinions on which approach (1 or 2 or other) is a preferred solution here? Myself, I'd lean toward 1 (it's shorter), unless there's value in seeing possible error output from gtk-update-icon-cache. -- Rex p.s. Looking closer, it appears option 2 was in place at one time, but was removed via http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Packaging/ScriptletSnippets?action=diff&rev2=2&rev1=1 with comment: Remove extraneous if [ -x PROGRAM ] (Not needed if the scriptlet also uses ||:) From rstrode at redhat.com Tue Jul 10 19:28:52 2007 From: rstrode at redhat.com (Ray Strode) Date: Tue, 10 Jul 2007 15:28:52 -0400 Subject: gtk-update-icon-cache scriptlet output? In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <4693DDF4.50901@redhat.com> Rex Dieter wrote: > Currently, > http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Packaging/ScriptletSnippets#head-7103f6c38d1b5735e8477bdd569ad73ea2c49bda > recommends including scriptlet: > %{_bindir}/gtk-update-icon-cache --quiet %{_datadir}/icons/hicolor || : > but *not* adding any Requires: for this. > Odd... > A consequence is that when/if gtk-update-icon-cache is not available, the > existing scriptlet generates error output. > > 2 fixes come to mind: > 1. ignore all output: (line wrapped) > %{_bindir}/gtk-update-icon-cache %{_datadir}/icons/hicolor \ > >& /dev/null || : > > 2. wrap, allow for real errors to display: > if [ -x %{_bindir}/gtk-update-icon-cache ]; then > %{_bindir}/gtk-update-icon-cache --quiet %{_datadir}/icons/hicolor ||: > fi > We have been following this 2 for most packages. well there is a requires touch operation above it, so KDE will picks up the new icons if gtk-update-icon-cache isn't installed. > Any opinions on which approach (1 or 2 or other) is a preferred solution > here? > There is a lot of prior art for 2. > p.s. Looking closer, it appears option 2 was in place at one time, but was > removed via > http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Packaging/ScriptletSnippets?action=diff&rev2=2&rev1=1 > with comment: > Remove extraneous if [ -x PROGRAM ] (Not needed if the scriptlet also > uses ||:) Ah, okay. Yea, so I would just revert that change. But really we should just get it out of post and rpm should run it automatically if an icon gets installed. I guess there isn't really an hooks to do that now, though. --Ray From rdieter at math.unl.edu Tue Jul 10 19:32:33 2007 From: rdieter at math.unl.edu (Rex Dieter) Date: Tue, 10 Jul 2007 14:32:33 -0500 Subject: gtk-update-icon-cache scriptlet output? References: <4693DDF4.50901@redhat.com> Message-ID: Ray Strode wrote: > But really we > should just get it out of post and rpm should run it automatically if an > icon gets installed. Amen to that... wishing that things would "just work" without such manual intervention. -- Rex From rdieter at math.unl.edu Wed Jul 11 16:11:54 2007 From: rdieter at math.unl.edu (Rex Dieter) Date: Wed, 11 Jul 2007 11:11:54 -0500 Subject: gtk-update-icon-cache scriptlet output? References: <4693DDF4.50901@redhat.com> Message-ID: Ray Strode wrote: > Rex Dieter wrote: >> p.s. Looking closer, it appears option 2 was in place at one time, but >> was removed via >> http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Packaging/ScriptletSnippets?action=diff&rev2=2&rev1=1 >> with comment: >> Remove extraneous if [ -x PROGRAM ] (Not needed if the scriptlet also >> uses ||:) > Ah, okay. Yea, so I would just revert that change. fyi, reverted. -- Rex From sdl.web at gmail.com Wed Jul 11 21:10:51 2007 From: sdl.web at gmail.com (Leo) Date: Wed, 11 Jul 2007 23:10:51 +0200 Subject: speech recognition for simple commands References: <4bcf41a00707070352u1f0753f5y6a81c285d72da484@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: On 2007-07-07 12:52 +0200, Marius Andreiana wrote: > Hi, > > Are there any plans on including speech recognition in Fedora? (using > sphinx4 and at-spi maybe) > I'm looking only to simple commands translation (click, page up, close > window...), not full speech recognition. > > Thanks, > -- > Marius Andreiana I think this will be a very nice feature to have. -- Leo (GPG Key: 9283AA3F) From bnocera at redhat.com Thu Jul 12 22:34:01 2007 From: bnocera at redhat.com (Bastien Nocera) Date: Thu, 12 Jul 2007 23:34:01 +0100 Subject: gnome-phone-manager update Message-ID: <1184279641.4117.231.camel@cookie.hadess.net> Heya, gnokii and gnome-phone-manager got some love recently, and over the next couple of weeks, should get integration into gnome-power-manager (for battery reporting), and UIs for call notifications, and the ability to make calls. Longer-term plans include a D-Bus API for getting PIM data so that Conduit can sync the phone with Evolution. Bug reports go upstream, discussions on the gnome-bluetooth mailing list (as per): http://live.gnome.org/PhoneManager You can get nightlies of gnokii and gnome-phone-manager in Richard's repo, details at: http://wiki.gnokii.org/index.php/PreBuiltPackages Cheers From bnocera at redhat.com Thu Jul 12 22:47:47 2007 From: bnocera at redhat.com (Bastien Nocera) Date: Thu, 12 Jul 2007 23:47:47 +0100 Subject: gnome-phone-manager update In-Reply-To: <1184279641.4117.231.camel@cookie.hadess.net> References: <1184279641.4117.231.camel@cookie.hadess.net> Message-ID: <1184280467.4117.234.camel@cookie.hadess.net> On Thu, 2007-07-12 at 23:34 +0100, Bastien Nocera wrote: > Heya, > > gnokii and gnome-phone-manager got some love recently, and over the next > couple of weeks, should get integration into gnome-power-manager (for > battery reporting), and UIs for call notifications, and the ability to > make calls. > > Longer-term plans include a D-Bus API for getting PIM data so that > Conduit can sync the phone with Evolution. > > Bug reports go upstream, discussions on the gnome-bluetooth mailing list > (as per): > http://live.gnome.org/PhoneManager > > You can get nightlies of gnokii and gnome-phone-manager in Richard's > repo, details at: > http://wiki.gnokii.org/index.php/PreBuiltPackages Just a quick note to say you should probably wait until I finish pushing the gnome-bluetooth and libbtctl updates into F7 before trying out the latest versions from the nightlies. Latest SVN trunk gnome-phone-manager and gnokii CVS with rawhide should do otherwise. Cheers From roguexz at gmail.com Sun Jul 15 20:28:33 2007 From: roguexz at gmail.com (Rogue) Date: Mon, 16 Jul 2007 01:58:33 +0530 Subject: speech recognition for simple commands In-Reply-To: <1183993732.4117.15.camel@cookie.hadess.net> References: <4bcf41a00707070352u1f0753f5y6a81c285d72da484@mail.gmail.com> <1183809701.8979.235.camel@cookie.hadess.net> <1183891125.3437.2.camel@localhost.localdomain> <1183993732.4117.15.camel@cookie.hadess.net> Message-ID: <469A8371.8050206@gmail.com> -----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- Hash: SHA1 Hi All, Bastien Nocera wrote: > On Sun, 2007-07-08 at 13:38 +0300, Marius Andreiana wrote: >> On Sat, 2007-07-07 at 13:01 +0100, Bastien Nocera wrote: >>> On Sat, 2007-07-07 at 13:52 +0300, Marius Andreiana wrote: >>>> Hi, >>>> >>>> Are there any plans on including speech recognition in Fedora? (using >>>> sphinx4 and at-spi maybe) >>>> I'm looking only to simple commands translation (click, page up, close >>>> window...), not full speech recognition. >>> There's a Google SoC project about it: >>> http://code.google.com/soc/2007/gnome/appinfo.html?csaid=4F64D394968BB092 >> Looks good! >> >> Nickolay, let me know if you need help with testing or anything else >> while you work on it, I'd love to see this implemented. > > Nickolay is the mentor, not the student working on the code. > > Raphael's already released code: > http://raphaelnunes.wordpress.com/ > > Cheers > I finally managed to get the code compiled on my system and in the process built rpm files for both Sphinx2 and gnome-voice-control. I tried out the applet and it for some reason did not work as expected. May be I was expecting too much. I said "new" and it opened up tasks I said "file" and it opened up Gedit. I understand that the project is still in its infancy, but I was wondering what is the roadmap for this project? thanks, Rogue p.s.: If someone is interested in the RPM files, i can host them at some location, but note that I am new to the whole RPM thingy, so I may not have set up the dependencies right! -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: GnuPG v1.4.7 (GNU/Linux) iD8DBQFGmoNxceS9IQvx51YRAr+GAJ4iVVUvvj1vDmMSHxmVBs/rDSlCXQCfUtMn sHjXw5VX1xH0BOwW3lAvUV0= =WffW -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- From btatehome at gmail.com Mon Jul 23 01:59:53 2007 From: btatehome at gmail.com (Brian Tate) Date: Sun, 22 Jul 2007 21:59:53 -0400 Subject: Fedora 8 Boot Process Message-ID: <46A40B99.9010101@gmail.com> I was reading the feature list for Fedora 8 and was disappointed when I came across the "Better Startup Experience". http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Releases/FeatureBetterStartup After reading the "Plan for improvement" section, I find it discomforting such a major change will be done to the existing very working/stable rhgb boot process. 1) Do away with the grub menu by default Why? That is the first question that came to mind. A large number of linux users dual-boot multiple OSes. It also is useful when you have multiple kernel versions installed; if you set the time-out to 3 seconds do you really notice it? 2) Switch to graphical Mode in initrd, draw an animation.... I have an animation now in rhgb, and as a bonus I can see all my services loading if I hit the "more" button. I trust this feature will not go away? 3) rhgb goes away ?reinvent the wheel? This sounds a lot like the useless Mac OS X boot sequence in which a little circle is animated in the middle of the screen. That tells the user nothing what is going on in the boot process and is a pile of crap. Almost as brilliant as the Windows Vista loading screen. I'd be curious to hear others thoughts on this; I can't be the only user out there who likes to know his system is indeed booting up and what it is doing. Is this really the direction we want for the fedora-desktop environment? Simply cloning other OSes poor user interface decisions? From gmureddu at prodigy.net.mx Mon Jul 23 02:36:20 2007 From: gmureddu at prodigy.net.mx (Gian Paolo Mureddu) Date: Sun, 22 Jul 2007 21:36:20 -0500 Subject: Fedora 8 Boot Process In-Reply-To: <46A40B99.9010101@gmail.com> References: <46A40B99.9010101@gmail.com> Message-ID: <46A41424.9080907@prodigy.net.mx> Brian Tate escribi?: > I was reading the feature list for Fedora 8 and was disappointed when > I came across the "Better Startup Experience". > http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Releases/FeatureBetterStartup > > After reading the "Plan for improvement" section, I find it > discomforting such a major change will be done to the existing very > working/stable rhgb boot process. > > 1) Do away with the grub menu by default > Why? That is the first question that came to mind. A large number > of linux users dual-boot multiple OSes. It also is useful when you > have multiple kernel versions installed; if you set the time-out to 3 > seconds do you really notice it? I couldn't agree more with you on this... However... > 2) Switch to graphical Mode in initrd, draw an animation.... > I have an animation now in rhgb, and as a bonus I can see all my > services loading if I hit the "more" button. I trust this feature will > not go away? Ever heard of Linux BootSplash? Is way better than RHGB in that BootSplash (upon which I'm assuming they're basing this) does not require to launch an early Xserver (in other words, it consumes quite a bit of resources to do that and can't be done as soon as the kernel is loaded, where as BootSplash can, as it is part of the kernel image). > 3) rhgb goes away > ?reinvent the wheel? Nope, improve upon it. RHGB was regarded by many back in the days of Fedora Core 2 as the worst idea for a graphical boot for Linux, as the Linux console already supported high resolution framebuffer images... Just out of curiosity, try passing the kernel the argument "vga=792" (without the quotes) on your next boot and see what happens ;-). Work on projects such BootSplash started even back in the days of Red Hat 9, but never got really stable. Some projects started to use it (Slackware, SuSE, Gentoo, etc). BootSplash had a function which could represent two modes, pretty much the same as what you see happens within RHGB right now. By means of pressing F12 you can see the boot process just like before, and it is even possible to switch to it if a problem occurs during boot up (a service taking too long to load, a service failing to start, a hard disk check, etc). This was the way to go from the beginning, I was actually surprised that RHGB lingered for so long! > > This sounds a lot like the useless Mac OS X boot sequence in which a > little circle is animated in the middle of the screen. That tells the > user nothing what is going on in the boot process and is a pile of > crap. Almost as brilliant as the Windows Vista loading screen. > > I'd be curious to hear others thoughts on this; I can't be the only > user out there who likes to know his system is indeed booting up and > what it is doing. Is this really the direction we want for the > fedora-desktop environment? Simply cloning other OSes poor user > interface decisions? > > From gmureddu at prodigy.net.mx Mon Jul 23 02:45:58 2007 From: gmureddu at prodigy.net.mx (Gian Paolo Mureddu) Date: Sun, 22 Jul 2007 21:45:58 -0500 Subject: Fedora 8 Boot Process In-Reply-To: <46A40B99.9010101@gmail.com> References: <46A40B99.9010101@gmail.com> Message-ID: <46A41666.3050008@prodigy.net.mx> Brian Tate escribi?: > > > 1) Do away with the grub menu by default > Why? That is the first question that came to mind. A large number > of linux users dual-boot multiple OSes. It also is useful when you > have multiple kernel versions installed; if you set the time-out to 3 > seconds do you really notice it? Didn't see the actual page until after I finished my other mail... No where do I understand they want to depart with GRUB, but rather make the kernel high resolution support as early as possible (i.e. as soon as the initrd image is loaded), switch to the best video mode (video modes in the VT are rather cryptic) and color bit depth for the attached display and continue booting all the way until X11 is loaded with a nice, shiny and professional looking through out all of the boot process, which could in turn be made faster by means of new stuff like 'initng' and the resource liberation of RHGB and the "extra" Xserver. From bnocera at redhat.com Mon Jul 23 10:11:28 2007 From: bnocera at redhat.com (Bastien Nocera) Date: Mon, 23 Jul 2007 11:11:28 +0100 Subject: gnome-phone-manager update In-Reply-To: <1184280467.4117.234.camel@cookie.hadess.net> References: <1184279641.4117.231.camel@cookie.hadess.net> <1184280467.4117.234.camel@cookie.hadess.net> Message-ID: <1185185488.3641.40.camel@cookie.hadess.net> On Thu, 2007-07-12 at 23:47 +0100, Bastien Nocera wrote: > On Thu, 2007-07-12 at 23:34 +0100, Bastien Nocera wrote: > > Heya, > > > > gnokii and gnome-phone-manager got some love recently, and over the next > > couple of weeks, should get integration into gnome-power-manager (for > > battery reporting), and UIs for call notifications, and the ability to > > make calls. > > > > Longer-term plans include a D-Bus API for getting PIM data so that > > Conduit can sync the phone with Evolution. > > > > Bug reports go upstream, discussions on the gnome-bluetooth mailing list > > (as per): > > http://live.gnome.org/PhoneManager > > > > You can get nightlies of gnokii and gnome-phone-manager in Richard's > > repo, details at: > > http://wiki.gnokii.org/index.php/PreBuiltPackages > > Just a quick note to say you should probably wait until I finish pushing > the gnome-bluetooth and libbtctl updates into F7 before trying out the > latest versions from the nightlies. It's a good thing gnome-bluetooth wasn't pushed earlier. I found a crasher bug (thanks to Rapha?l) on the last evening. Fixed packages pushed to updates-testing and rawhide. Enjoy From katzj at redhat.com Mon Jul 23 15:39:15 2007 From: katzj at redhat.com (Jeremy Katz) Date: Mon, 23 Jul 2007 11:39:15 -0400 Subject: Fedora 8 Boot Process In-Reply-To: <46A40B99.9010101@gmail.com> References: <46A40B99.9010101@gmail.com> Message-ID: <1185205155.2555.12.camel@localhost.localdomain> First -- this has been discussed (extensively) on this list in the past. Please see the archives. On Sun, 2007-07-22 at 21:59 -0400, Brian Tate wrote: > 1) Do away with the grub menu by default > Why? That is the first question that came to mind. A large number of > linux users dual-boot multiple OSes. It also is useful when you have > multiple kernel versions installed; if you set the time-out to 3 seconds > do you really notice it? The idea isn't to fully get rid of the menu, it's to get rid of the vide mode change. So basically, the graphic won't show by default (you'll still have the graphic if you actually press a key to change something in the menu) but the menu is still perfectly accessible. Jeremy From katzj at redhat.com Mon Jul 23 15:40:49 2007 From: katzj at redhat.com (Jeremy Katz) Date: Mon, 23 Jul 2007 11:40:49 -0400 Subject: Fedora 8 Boot Process In-Reply-To: <46A41424.9080907@prodigy.net.mx> References: <46A40B99.9010101@gmail.com> <46A41424.9080907@prodigy.net.mx> Message-ID: <1185205249.2555.15.camel@localhost.localdomain> On Sun, 2007-07-22 at 21:36 -0500, Gian Paolo Mureddu wrote: > Brian Tate escribi?: > > 2) Switch to graphical Mode in initrd, draw an animation.... > > I have an animation now in rhgb, and as a bonus I can see all my > > services loading if I hit the "more" button. I trust this feature will > > not go away? > > Ever heard of Linux BootSplash? Is way better than RHGB in that > BootSplash (upon which I'm assuming they're basing this) does not > require to launch an early Xserver (in other words, it consumes quite a > bit of resources to do that and can't be done as soon as the kernel is > loaded, where as BootSplash can, as it is part of the kernel image). The idea isn't to use bootsplash because bootsplash is not at all upstream and basically has zero chance of getting there. Instead, work is underway so that the kernel can do native modesetting for various graphics chipsets. Then we'll just go the same mode and avoid the mode switch and corresponding monitor flash. Jeremy From btatehome at gmail.com Tue Jul 24 00:16:57 2007 From: btatehome at gmail.com (Brian Tate) Date: Mon, 23 Jul 2007 20:16:57 -0400 Subject: Fedora 8 Boot Process In-Reply-To: <1185205249.2555.15.camel@localhost.localdomain> References: <46A40B99.9010101@gmail.com> <46A41424.9080907@prodigy.net.mx> <1185205249.2555.15.camel@localhost.localdomain> Message-ID: <46A544F9.1040903@gmail.com> To Jeremy and Gian- Well that's good.. after reading your posts I am comforted to know the boot process isn't going out the window. I guess I was just worried that I'd be stuck using text-only mode for the functionality I enjoy now. Because I know having fancy graphics chipset drivers load on the boot for good effects will work on older cards, I know it probably won't work for cards that are new and have limited x11 driver support. So it'd be nice for those cards to be able to fall back to the existing boot process rather then all the way to text-only mode. I am still unclear on what you intend to do to the grub boot process. are you going to merge the new boot animation so that grub/kernel/service loading is all under one status screen? It definitely shouldn't be a hassle for a user to get to this menu. All in all, It'd be nice to see that page have better explanations of the project's goals. Things like "there should be no text messages" should be elaborated; so users like me who joined the mailing list after the said discussion on this new boot process actually know what is going on. Thanks for elaborating on the projects goals. Brian Jeremy Katz wrote: > On Sun, 2007-07-22 at 21:36 -0500, Gian Paolo Mureddu wrote: > >> Brian Tate escribi?: >> >>> 2) Switch to graphical Mode in initrd, draw an animation.... >>> I have an animation now in rhgb, and as a bonus I can see all my >>> services loading if I hit the "more" button. I trust this feature will >>> not go away? >>> >> Ever heard of Linux BootSplash? Is way better than RHGB in that >> BootSplash (upon which I'm assuming they're basing this) does not >> require to launch an early Xserver (in other words, it consumes quite a >> bit of resources to do that and can't be done as soon as the kernel is >> loaded, where as BootSplash can, as it is part of the kernel image). >> > > The idea isn't to use bootsplash because bootsplash is not at all > upstream and basically has zero chance of getting there. Instead, work > is underway so that the kernel can do native modesetting for various > graphics chipsets. Then we'll just go the same mode and avoid the mode > switch and corresponding monitor flash. > > Jeremy > > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From gmureddu at prodigy.net.mx Tue Jul 24 02:42:23 2007 From: gmureddu at prodigy.net.mx (Gian Paolo Mureddu) Date: Mon, 23 Jul 2007 21:42:23 -0500 Subject: Fedora 8 Boot Process In-Reply-To: <46A544F9.1040903@gmail.com> References: <46A40B99.9010101@gmail.com> <46A41424.9080907@prodigy.net.mx> <1185205249.2555.15.camel@localhost.localdomain> <46A544F9.1040903@gmail.com> Message-ID: <46A5670F.7010600@prodigy.net.mx> Brian Tate escribi?: > To Jeremy and Gian- > > Well that's good.. after reading your posts I am comforted to know the > boot process isn't going out the window. I guess I was just worried > that I'd be stuck using text-only mode for the functionality I enjoy > now. Because I know having fancy graphics chipset drivers load on the > boot for good effects will work on older cards, I know it probably > won't work for cards that are new and have limited x11 driver support. > So it'd be nice for those cards to be able to fall back to the > existing boot process rather then all the way to text-only mode. The idea behind the new boot process is to add graphics to the "text mode", which is possible. > > I am still unclear on what you intend to do to the grub boot process. > are you going to merge the new boot animation so that > grub/kernel/service loading is all under one status screen? It > definitely shouldn't be a hassle for a user to get to this menu. The idea behind the Grub change is pretty much as you see it today, except, that instead of showing a graphic in the counter screen (the screen you see with a Fedora 7 themed backdrop, etc) the counter would be without a background extending the "look and feel" of the BIOS boot process. Once the kernel loads, as soon it does, there's gonna be graphics. Not EGA (16 color) graphics, like the Grub splash, but full blown 32-bit images and animations. This doesn't mean that the X11 drivers are loaded (again, this is all in-kernel, no X!) which means that even if your video card doesn't have proper X11 drivers for all the fancy stuff (aka 3D), you can still get 2D, which is exactly what will happen with the in-kernel graphics. There are a bunch of VESA drivers in the kernel already. There are known problems when using the Riva driver for the virtual terminal graphics and the nvidia X11 driver (nvidia recommends disabling the Riva driver or using the VESA [vga] driver) > > All in all, It'd be nice to see that page have better explanations of > the project's goals. Things like "there should be no text messages" > should be elaborated; so users like me who joined the mailing list > after the said discussion on this new boot process actually know what > is going on. While many of the terms and even concepts may be a bit disorientating at first, the page is quite clear actually (if you are familiar enough with the boot process of Linux and the capabilities of the kernel). Basic support for these graphics has been in the kernel for quite some time now, back in the 2.4 days was the very first time I saw them being used, and I don't know if the 2.2 series of kernels also had the capability. That was when projects like BootSplash appeared. I gather that BootSplash is no longer maintained, but still is the same basic idea which is going into the F8 boot process. Take advantage of the advanced graphics features of the kernel and use them during the boot process, pretty much like it is with RHGB without the added overhead of an early X11 session. > > > Thanks for elaborating on the projects goals. > > Brian From nphilipp at redhat.com Tue Jul 24 12:36:12 2007 From: nphilipp at redhat.com (Nils Philippsen) Date: Tue, 24 Jul 2007 14:36:12 +0200 Subject: Fedora 8 Boot Process In-Reply-To: <1185205155.2555.12.camel@localhost.localdomain> References: <46A40B99.9010101@gmail.com> <1185205155.2555.12.camel@localhost.localdomain> Message-ID: <1185280572.11792.11.camel@gibraltar.stuttgart.redhat.com> On Mon, 2007-07-23 at 11:39 -0400, Jeremy Katz wrote: > First -- this has been discussed (extensively) on this list in the past. > Please see the archives. Hm. There's no method to search the mailman archive via its interface. Googling "site:redhat.com fedora-desktop-list grub ..." gives a lot of hits but unfortunately nothing pertinent to this discussion. Care to give a pointer? > On Sun, 2007-07-22 at 21:59 -0400, Brian Tate wrote: > > 1) Do away with the grub menu by default > > Why? That is the first question that came to mind. A large number of > > linux users dual-boot multiple OSes. It also is useful when you have > > multiple kernel versions installed; if you set the time-out to 3 seconds > > do you really notice it? > > The idea isn't to fully get rid of the menu, it's to get rid of the vide > mode change. So basically, the graphic won't show by default (you'll > still have the graphic if you actually press a key to change something > in the menu) but the menu is still perfectly accessible. Actually the only sensible thing to do would be to let anaconda configure grub to show the menu if another OS is configured during installation and skip the menu if another OS isn't configured. People who configure their systems for dual/multi-boot will want to see the menu while others won't. Nils -- Nils Philippsen / Red Hat / nphilipp at redhat.com "Those who would give up Essential Liberty to purchase a little Temporary Safety, deserve neither Liberty nor Safety." -- B. Franklin, 1759 PGP fingerprint: C4A8 9474 5C4C ADE3 2B8F 656D 47D8 9B65 6951 3011 From bnocera at redhat.com Tue Jul 24 13:14:43 2007 From: bnocera at redhat.com (Bastien Nocera) Date: Tue, 24 Jul 2007 14:14:43 +0100 Subject: speech recognition for simple commands In-Reply-To: <469A8371.8050206@gmail.com> References: <4bcf41a00707070352u1f0753f5y6a81c285d72da484@mail.gmail.com> <1183809701.8979.235.camel@cookie.hadess.net> <1183891125.3437.2.camel@localhost.localdomain> <1183993732.4117.15.camel@cookie.hadess.net> <469A8371.8050206@gmail.com> Message-ID: <1185282883.3641.99.camel@cookie.hadess.net> On Mon, 2007-07-16 at 01:58 +0530, Rogue wrote: > I finally managed to get the code compiled on my system and in the > process built rpm files for both Sphinx2 and gnome-voice-control. I > tried out the applet and it for some reason did not work as expected. > May be I was expecting too much. > > I said "new" and it opened up tasks > I said "file" and it opened up Gedit. Sounds like pretty bad bugs. > I understand that the project is still in its infancy, but I was > wondering what is the roadmap for this project? This isn't the right place to discuss upstream roadmaps, we don't know them any better than you would doing some research. I'm sure you could contact the mentor and student to get some feedback on the ideas, and see where the project is headed. Cheers > thanks, > Rogue > > p.s.: If someone is interested in the RPM files, i can host them at some > location, but note that I am new to the whole RPM thingy, so I may not > have set up the dependencies right! How about getting it in Fedora? From btatehome at gmail.com Wed Jul 25 00:21:37 2007 From: btatehome at gmail.com (Brian Tate) Date: Tue, 24 Jul 2007 20:21:37 -0400 Subject: Fedora 8 Boot Process In-Reply-To: <46A5670F.7010600@prodigy.net.mx> References: <46A40B99.9010101@gmail.com> <46A41424.9080907@prodigy.net.mx> <1185205249.2555.15.camel@localhost.localdomain> <46A544F9.1040903@gmail.com> <46A5670F.7010600@prodigy.net.mx> Message-ID: <46A69791.5030400@gmail.com> Hey Gian, Thanks for taking the time to explain all that; sounds much better now. Good luck. Gian Paolo Mureddu wrote: > Brian Tate escribi?: >> To Jeremy and Gian- >> >> Well that's good.. after reading your posts I am comforted to know >> the boot process isn't going out the window. I guess I was just >> worried that I'd be stuck using text-only mode for the functionality >> I enjoy now. Because I know having fancy graphics chipset drivers >> load on the boot for good effects will work on older cards, I know it >> probably won't work for cards that are new and have limited x11 >> driver support. So it'd be nice for those cards to be able to fall >> back to the existing boot process rather then all the way to >> text-only mode. > > The idea behind the new boot process is to add graphics to the "text > mode", which is possible. > >> >> I am still unclear on what you intend to do to the grub boot process. >> are you going to merge the new boot animation so that >> grub/kernel/service loading is all under one status screen? It >> definitely shouldn't be a hassle for a user to get to this menu. > > The idea behind the Grub change is pretty much as you see it today, > except, that instead of showing a graphic in the counter screen (the > screen you see with a Fedora 7 themed backdrop, etc) the counter would > be without a background extending the "look and feel" of the BIOS boot > process. Once the kernel loads, as soon it does, there's gonna be > graphics. Not EGA (16 color) graphics, like the Grub splash, but full > blown 32-bit images and animations. This doesn't mean that the X11 > drivers are loaded (again, this is all in-kernel, no X!) which means > that even if your video card doesn't have proper X11 drivers for all > the fancy stuff (aka 3D), you can still get 2D, which is exactly what > will happen with the in-kernel graphics. There are a bunch of VESA > drivers in the kernel already. There are known problems when using the > Riva driver for the virtual terminal graphics and the nvidia X11 > driver (nvidia recommends disabling the Riva driver or using the VESA > [vga] driver) > >> >> All in all, It'd be nice to see that page have better explanations of >> the project's goals. Things like "there should be no text messages" >> should be elaborated; so users like me who joined the mailing list >> after the said discussion on this new boot process actually know what >> is going on. > > While many of the terms and even concepts may be a bit disorientating > at first, the page is quite clear actually (if you are familiar enough > with the boot process of Linux and the capabilities of the kernel). > Basic support for these graphics has been in the kernel for quite some > time now, back in the 2.4 days was the very first time I saw them > being used, and I don't know if the 2.2 series of kernels also had the > capability. That was when projects like BootSplash appeared. I gather > that BootSplash is no longer maintained, but still is the same basic > idea which is going into the F8 boot process. Take advantage of the > advanced graphics features of the kernel and use them during the boot > process, pretty much like it is with RHGB without the added overhead > of an early X11 session. > >> >> >> Thanks for elaborating on the projects goals. >> >> Brian > From mandreiana.lists at gmail.com Fri Jul 27 11:20:50 2007 From: mandreiana.lists at gmail.com (Marius Andreiana) Date: Fri, 27 Jul 2007 14:20:50 +0300 Subject: benefit of nautilus mime detection warning dialog? Message-ID: <1185535250.4462.6.camel@localhost.localdomain> Hi, Regarding 3-year old http://bugzilla.gnome.org/show_bug.cgi?id=138033 What's the security benefit of this dialog? Preventing gimp from opening an .sh file renamed to .png? Each application should handle bad input, e.g. OOo won't crash the system if one tries to open a non-ODF file with it. It's affecting quite a lot of users http://www.google.ro/search?q=%22Cannot+open%22+%22indicates+that+this+file+is+of+type%22&ie=utf-8&oe=utf-8&aq=t&rls=org.mozilla:en-US:official&client=firefox Why cannot be removed? Thanks, -- Marius Andreiana http://marius.andreiana.googlepages.com From mclasen at redhat.com Fri Jul 27 15:35:07 2007 From: mclasen at redhat.com (Matthias Clasen) Date: Fri, 27 Jul 2007 11:35:07 -0400 Subject: F8 desktop features Message-ID: <1185550507.3650.33.camel@localhost.localdomain> Given that test1 is around the corner, I thought it might be a good idea to give a little status update on the features that the desktop team has been working on for F8: NoMoreXFS - Done. Bigboard - In test1, run god-mode 1 to turn it on and play with it. Bluetooth - bluetooth printer support is in test1. Remaining Bluetooth features are still being worked on upstream and will appear in rawhide over time. LaptopImprovements - the bulk of the keyboard and suspend/resume work is in hal-info-20070725 and hal-0.5.10rc1 which narrowly missed test1 and will appear in rawhide soon. PolicyKit - missed test1 by a few days, will appear in rawhide soon. PulseAudio - not in test1, the changes to make PulseAudio play nicely with fast user switching are done upstream. CodecBuddy - not in test1. NetworkManager - not on by default in test1. The necessary changes are being worked on upstream, and the feature page says 70% done. I heard that a 0.7 release might happen around test3 time, I hope we can get a usable snapshot earlier than that. BetterStartup - not targetting F8, since it depends on kernel features that will not land in time. From notting at redhat.com Fri Jul 27 15:56:17 2007 From: notting at redhat.com (Bill Nottingham) Date: Fri, 27 Jul 2007 11:56:17 -0400 Subject: F8 desktop features In-Reply-To: <1185550507.3650.33.camel@localhost.localdomain> References: <1185550507.3650.33.camel@localhost.localdomain> Message-ID: <20070727155617.GA6111@nostromo.devel.redhat.com> Matthias Clasen (mclasen at redhat.com) said: > NoMoreXFS - Done. Well, it's still pulled in and enabled becuase the font packages still require chkfontpath. Probably should file some bugs and get this done. > LaptopImprovements - the bulk of the keyboard and suspend/resume work > is in hal-info-20070725 and hal-0.5.10rc1 which narrowly missed test1 > and will appear in rawhide soon. For thinkpads, at least, there are some HAL and kernel interaction issues remaining. Bill From krh at bitplanet.net Fri Jul 27 16:04:00 2007 From: krh at bitplanet.net (=?UTF-8?Q?Kristian_H=C3=B8gsberg?=) Date: Fri, 27 Jul 2007 12:04:00 -0400 Subject: F8 desktop features In-Reply-To: <20070727155617.GA6111@nostromo.devel.redhat.com> References: <1185550507.3650.33.camel@localhost.localdomain> <20070727155617.GA6111@nostromo.devel.redhat.com> Message-ID: <59ad55d30707270904m251357fcif0e72795971a5201@mail.gmail.com> On 7/27/07, Bill Nottingham wrote: > Matthias Clasen (mclasen at redhat.com) said: > > NoMoreXFS - Done. > > Well, it's still pulled in and enabled becuase the font packages > still require chkfontpath. Probably should file some bugs and > get this done. I fixed most of them, and filed a bug for urw-fonts, for which I'm not in the acl. Are there other font packages pulling in chkfontpath? https://bugzilla.redhat.com/bugzilla/show_bug.cgi?id=245784 Kristian From walters at redhat.com Fri Jul 27 16:04:30 2007 From: walters at redhat.com (Colin Walters) Date: Fri, 27 Jul 2007 12:04:30 -0400 Subject: f8 desktop livecd Message-ID: <1185552270.3323.58.camel@neutron.verbum.private> Hi, Some people may not know that in Fedora 7, there was a difference between the DVD and the Live CD. What happened is (as far as I understand it) David Zeuthen took a look at things, and exercised a bit of editorial control by using the kickstart file - ship NetworkManager enabled by default, for example. This is exactly what Fedora as a desktop needs; a place for people who care about the experience as a desktop to do those quick fixes that may be hard to change in the Fedora base. So, following a quick huddle with a few people from the Red Hat desktop team, we decided to make this LiveCD kickstart file a bit more of a project. Actually, the project already exists: http://git.fedoraproject.org/?p=hosted/livecd;a=summary So this mail is just to say that this project exists (and I know a lot of people didn't know about the difference), and will move forward. For Fedora 8, it would make sense to more prominently distinguish this version as the Desktop version. Ideally of course, this project will be minimal - for example, the work to make NetworkManager usable on servers makes sense, and should continue. From notting at redhat.com Fri Jul 27 16:08:09 2007 From: notting at redhat.com (Bill Nottingham) Date: Fri, 27 Jul 2007 12:08:09 -0400 Subject: F8 desktop features In-Reply-To: <59ad55d30707270904m251357fcif0e72795971a5201@mail.gmail.com> References: <1185550507.3650.33.camel@localhost.localdomain> <20070727155617.GA6111@nostromo.devel.redhat.com> <59ad55d30707270904m251357fcif0e72795971a5201@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <20070727160809.GC6111@nostromo.devel.redhat.com> Kristian H?gsberg (krh at bitplanet.net) said: > I fixed most of them, and filed a bug for urw-fonts, for which I'm not > in the acl. Are there other font packages pulling in chkfontpath? > > https://bugzilla.redhat.com/bugzilla/show_bug.cgi?id=245784 According to repoquery, the following require chkfontpath: fonts-KOI8-R-75dpi-0:1.0-9.1.1.noarch efont-unicode-bdf-0:0.4.2-6.1.fc6.noarch fonts-KOI8-R-100dpi-0:1.0-9.1.1.noarch fonts-ISO8859-2-0:1.0-17.1.noarch fonts-japanese-0:0.20061016-6.fc7.noarch fonts-korean-0:1.0.11-9.1.1.noarch fonts-x11-apl-0:4.20.2-19.fc8.x86_64 wqy-bitmap-fonts-0:0.8.1-6.fc8.noarch fonts-truetype-apl-0:4.20.2-19.fc8.x86_64 x3270-x11-0:3.3.4p7-5.fc6.x86_64 libdockapp-fonts-0:0.6.1-3.fc8.x86_64 fonts-ISO8859-2-100dpi-0:1.0-17.1.noarch grace-0:5.1.21-1.fc7.x86_64 urw-fonts-0:2.3-6.1.1.noarch fonts-chinese-0:3.03-4.fc7.noarch fonts-ISO8859-2-75dpi-0:1.0-17.1.noarch fonts-KOI8-R-0:1.0-9.1.1.noarch terminus-font-x11-0:4.20-5.fc6.noarch zvbi-fonts-0:0.2.25-1.fc8.x86_64 Bill From drago01 at gmail.com Fri Jul 27 16:50:24 2007 From: drago01 at gmail.com (dragoran) Date: Fri, 27 Jul 2007 18:50:24 +0200 Subject: F8 desktop features In-Reply-To: <1185550507.3650.33.camel@localhost.localdomain> References: <1185550507.3650.33.camel@localhost.localdomain> Message-ID: On 7/27/07, Matthias Clasen wrote: > > Given that test1 is around the corner, I thought it might be a good idea > to give a little status update on the features that the desktop team has > been working on for F8: what happend to compiz-fusion? -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From mclasen at redhat.com Fri Jul 27 17:02:55 2007 From: mclasen at redhat.com (Matthias Clasen) Date: Fri, 27 Jul 2007 13:02:55 -0400 Subject: F8 desktop features In-Reply-To: References: <1185550507.3650.33.camel@localhost.localdomain> Message-ID: <1185555775.3650.54.camel@localhost.localdomain> On Fri, 2007-07-27 at 18:50 +0200, dragoran wrote: > > > On 7/27/07, Matthias Clasen wrote: > Given that test1 is around the corner, I thought it might be a > good idea > to give a little status update on the features that the > desktop team has > been working on for F8: > > what happend to compiz-fusion? > Nothing. Kristian said he was going to look at updating compiz. It is not a new "feature", just a package update, really. From krh at bitplanet.net Fri Jul 27 17:09:42 2007 From: krh at bitplanet.net (=?UTF-8?Q?Kristian_H=C3=B8gsberg?=) Date: Fri, 27 Jul 2007 13:09:42 -0400 Subject: F8 desktop features In-Reply-To: References: <1185550507.3650.33.camel@localhost.localdomain> Message-ID: <59ad55d30707271009l30b3486er9efd85c27ab5fd1e@mail.gmail.com> On 7/27/07, dragoran wrote: > On 7/27/07, Matthias Clasen wrote: > > Given that test1 is around the corner, I thought it might be a good idea > > to give a little status update on the features that the desktop team has > > been working on for F8: > > what happend to compiz-fusion? I've been punting this issue for a while; sorry about that, I should have been more involed in the debate there. I have two concerns about the proposed updates: 1) I'd rather not ship a git snap shot for fedora 8. If we know that there's a stable release on the horizon, that is, coming out withing the next 1 or 2 months, we can do an update, but if there's no expectation that a stable release is coming out in time for fedora 8, I'd rather wait. The concern here is mainly that we're starting to ship externally packaged plugins for compiz and we need an upstream maintenence branch (0.6) that maintains a stable plugin API. I don't know what the compiz schedule is for the current development branch but it still sees plugin API breaking changes at this time. As far as I know, there's hasn't been a stable release since the merge, but if most of the API changes to allow beryl plugins to run have been merged, maybe it would be a good idea to wind down and release 0.6? 2) I don't know what the current status is on config plugins. I know there is interest in getting ccp configured as the default backend, but I don't know what the benefits of that is over gconf. I understand that gconf is GNOME specific, but I was thinking that the better approach was to move gconf and gtk-window-decorator to a new compiz-gnome subpackage. What is the compiz upstream position? My position is that we need to use the native configuration system of the desktop environment (that is, gconf when running under GNOME) and reinventing new config file formats is almost never the right approach (no matter how fun it is). Kristian From jkeating at redhat.com Fri Jul 27 17:10:36 2007 From: jkeating at redhat.com (Jesse Keating) Date: Fri, 27 Jul 2007 13:10:36 -0400 Subject: F8 desktop features In-Reply-To: <1185555775.3650.54.camel@localhost.localdomain> References: <1185550507.3650.33.camel@localhost.localdomain> <1185555775.3650.54.camel@localhost.localdomain> Message-ID: <20070727131036.2aa6cc15@localhost.localdomain> On Fri, 27 Jul 2007 13:02:55 -0400 Matthias Clasen wrote: > Nothing. Kristian said he was going to look at updating compiz. > It is not a new "feature", just a package update, really. Yet something that will immediately be visible to end users who poke at it. We have got to stop thinking about the work we do as just 'a package update'. If we're updating a package to a new upstream version that offers new stuff, YELL about it. Get some excitement going. Get some people interested in trying it out. We're far far too modest about the things we're doing or the things we're including. We've seen that others aren't, and they get all the glory. -- Jesse Keating Release Engineer: Fedora -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: signature.asc Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 189 bytes Desc: not available URL: From mclasen at redhat.com Fri Jul 27 17:12:40 2007 From: mclasen at redhat.com (Matthias Clasen) Date: Fri, 27 Jul 2007 13:12:40 -0400 Subject: F8 desktop features In-Reply-To: <20070727131036.2aa6cc15@localhost.localdomain> References: <1185550507.3650.33.camel@localhost.localdomain> <1185555775.3650.54.camel@localhost.localdomain> <20070727131036.2aa6cc15@localhost.localdomain> Message-ID: <1185556360.3650.58.camel@localhost.localdomain> On Fri, 2007-07-27 at 13:10 -0400, Jesse Keating wrote: > On Fri, 27 Jul 2007 13:02:55 -0400 > Matthias Clasen wrote: > > > Nothing. Kristian said he was going to look at updating compiz. > > It is not a new "feature", just a package update, really. > > Yet something that will immediately be visible to end users who poke at > it. We have got to stop thinking about the work we do as just 'a > package update'. If we're updating a package to a new upstream version > that offers new stuff, YELL about it. Get some excitement going. Get > some people interested in trying it out. We're far far too modest > about the things we're doing or the things we're including. We've seen > that others aren't, and they get all the glory. > Well, it is really just the version checklist you see when the release goes out: comes with the latest Gnome, X, KDE, ... I assume that list is assembled anyway, without tracking every single new version as a feature, with all the added overhead that it entails. And I really don't think FESCO need to vote on compiz-fusion as an F8 feature. From jkeating at redhat.com Fri Jul 27 17:19:36 2007 From: jkeating at redhat.com (Jesse Keating) Date: Fri, 27 Jul 2007 13:19:36 -0400 Subject: F8 desktop features In-Reply-To: <1185556360.3650.58.camel@localhost.localdomain> References: <1185550507.3650.33.camel@localhost.localdomain> <1185555775.3650.54.camel@localhost.localdomain> <20070727131036.2aa6cc15@localhost.localdomain> <1185556360.3650.58.camel@localhost.localdomain> Message-ID: <20070727131936.22cf5c6f@localhost.localdomain> On Fri, 27 Jul 2007 13:12:40 -0400 Matthias Clasen wrote: > Well, it is really just the version checklist you see when the release > goes out: comes with the latest Gnome, X, KDE, ... > I assume that list is assembled anyway, without tracking every single > new version as a feature, with all the added overhead that it entails. Again I think you underestimate how "cool" this will seem to people, they get their beryl like stuff with compiz. This is not insignificant. This is not just a version tick unless that's all you say about it. Ho hum, we have version 3 of blah. Big whoop. But if version 3 brings out Cool New Thing bar and baz and bang, that's FAR more exciting to talk about. > And I really don't think FESCO need to vote on compiz-fusion as an F8 > feature. Are we doing anything at all to our 'enable desktop effects' menu because of this? Do we have to coordinate with say the removal of beryl? Are there any config changes people will have to make (they want to keep their working beryl config but use it with -fusion?) Will the end user notice something? These are the types of things we want to list Features for, and yes, being a Feature comes with the small price tag of needing a FESCo rubber stamp, but that's really really not hard to do at all, and not really a big deal for FESCo to do this. -- Jesse Keating Release Engineer: Fedora -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: signature.asc Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 189 bytes Desc: not available URL: From mclasen at redhat.com Fri Jul 27 17:28:20 2007 From: mclasen at redhat.com (Matthias Clasen) Date: Fri, 27 Jul 2007 13:28:20 -0400 Subject: F8 desktop features In-Reply-To: <20070727131936.22cf5c6f@localhost.localdomain> References: <1185550507.3650.33.camel@localhost.localdomain> <1185555775.3650.54.camel@localhost.localdomain> <20070727131036.2aa6cc15@localhost.localdomain> <1185556360.3650.58.camel@localhost.localdomain> <20070727131936.22cf5c6f@localhost.localdomain> Message-ID: <1185557300.3650.60.camel@localhost.localdomain> On Fri, 2007-07-27 at 13:19 -0400, Jesse Keating wrote: > These are the types of things we want > to list Features for, and yes, being a Feature comes with the small > price tag of needing a FESCo rubber stamp, but that's really really not > hard to do at all, and not really a big deal for FESCo to do this. > It also comes with the not-quite-so-small price tag of filling out a feature approvat template in the wiki, and being bugged about updating it every 2 weeks... From drago01 at gmail.com Fri Jul 27 17:34:22 2007 From: drago01 at gmail.com (dragoran) Date: Fri, 27 Jul 2007 19:34:22 +0200 Subject: F8 desktop features In-Reply-To: <59ad55d30707271009l30b3486er9efd85c27ab5fd1e@mail.gmail.com> References: <1185550507.3650.33.camel@localhost.localdomain> <59ad55d30707271009l30b3486er9efd85c27ab5fd1e@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: On 7/27/07, Kristian H?gsberg wrote: > > On 7/27/07, dragoran wrote: > > On 7/27/07, Matthias Clasen wrote: > > > Given that test1 is around the corner, I thought it might be a good > idea > > > to give a little status update on the features that the desktop team > has > > > been working on for F8: > > > > what happend to compiz-fusion? > > I've been punting this issue for a while; sorry about that, I should > have been more involed in the debate there. I have two concerns about > the proposed updates: > > 1) I'd rather not ship a git snap shot for fedora 8. If we know that > there's a stable release on the horizon, that is, coming out withing > the next 1 or 2 months, we can do an update, but if there's no > expectation that a stable release is coming out in time for fedora 8, > I'd rather wait. The concern here is mainly that we're starting to > ship externally packaged plugins for compiz and we need an upstream > maintenence branch (0.6) that maintains a stable plugin API. I don't > know what the compiz schedule is for the current development branch > but it still sees plugin API breaking changes at this time. As far as > I know, there's hasn't been a stable release since the merge, but if > most of the API changes to allow beryl plugins to run have been > merged, maybe it would be a good idea to wind down and release 0.6? I asked about this a while ago and David wanted to release a 0.5.2 and a 0.6.0 a bit later... what happend to this? David? 2) I don't know what the current status is on config plugins. I know > there is interest in getting ccp configured as the default backend, > but I don't know what the benefits of that is over gconf. I > understand that gconf is GNOME specific, but I was thinking that the > better approach was to move gconf and gtk-window-decorator to a new > compiz-gnome subpackage. What is the compiz upstream position? My > position is that we need to use the native configuration system of the > desktop environment (that is, gconf when running under GNOME) and > reinventing new config file formats is almost never the right approach > (no matter how fun it is). ccp has a gconf and a konf backend so we can just use this. the benefit over gconf are the configuration tools that already exist for it. there was a thread on fedora-devel-list about this... -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From jkeating at redhat.com Fri Jul 27 17:50:15 2007 From: jkeating at redhat.com (Jesse Keating) Date: Fri, 27 Jul 2007 13:50:15 -0400 Subject: F8 desktop features In-Reply-To: <1185557300.3650.60.camel@localhost.localdomain> References: <1185550507.3650.33.camel@localhost.localdomain> <1185555775.3650.54.camel@localhost.localdomain> <20070727131036.2aa6cc15@localhost.localdomain> <1185556360.3650.58.camel@localhost.localdomain> <20070727131936.22cf5c6f@localhost.localdomain> <1185557300.3650.60.camel@localhost.localdomain> Message-ID: <20070727135015.5b59f998@localhost.localdomain> On Fri, 27 Jul 2007 13:28:20 -0400 Matthias Clasen wrote: > It also comes with the not-quite-so-small price tag of filling out a > feature approvat template in the wiki, and being bugged about updating > it every 2 weeks... Yes, being verbose about the work you're doing for Fedora is a terrible thing. -- Jesse Keating Release Engineer: Fedora -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: signature.asc Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 189 bytes Desc: not available URL: From mclasen at redhat.com Fri Jul 27 17:55:31 2007 From: mclasen at redhat.com (Matthias Clasen) Date: Fri, 27 Jul 2007 13:55:31 -0400 Subject: F8 desktop features In-Reply-To: <20070727135015.5b59f998@localhost.localdomain> References: <1185550507.3650.33.camel@localhost.localdomain> <1185555775.3650.54.camel@localhost.localdomain> <20070727131036.2aa6cc15@localhost.localdomain> <1185556360.3650.58.camel@localhost.localdomain> <20070727131936.22cf5c6f@localhost.localdomain> <1185557300.3650.60.camel@localhost.localdomain> <20070727135015.5b59f998@localhost.localdomain> Message-ID: <1185558931.3650.64.camel@localhost.localdomain> On Fri, 2007-07-27 at 13:50 -0400, Jesse Keating wrote: > Yes, being verbose about the work you're doing for Fedora is a terrible > thing. Being verbose not so much, more that fact that it feels like applying for a Fedora Mortgage - you have been pre-approved ! From jkeating at redhat.com Fri Jul 27 18:15:51 2007 From: jkeating at redhat.com (Jesse Keating) Date: Fri, 27 Jul 2007 14:15:51 -0400 Subject: F8 desktop features In-Reply-To: <1185558931.3650.64.camel@localhost.localdomain> References: <1185550507.3650.33.camel@localhost.localdomain> <1185555775.3650.54.camel@localhost.localdomain> <20070727131036.2aa6cc15@localhost.localdomain> <1185556360.3650.58.camel@localhost.localdomain> <20070727131936.22cf5c6f@localhost.localdomain> <1185557300.3650.60.camel@localhost.localdomain> <20070727135015.5b59f998@localhost.localdomain> <1185558931.3650.64.camel@localhost.localdomain> Message-ID: <20070727141551.1681a357@localhost.localdomain> On Fri, 27 Jul 2007 13:55:31 -0400 Matthias Clasen wrote: > Being verbose not so much, more that fact that it feels like applying > for a Fedora Mortgage - you have been pre-approved ! So what we're really arguing about is our tools right? And you're using our tools as an excuse not to do the work? That's cool, I can take that, sure our tools suck. But you know what, it's what we've got right now. Maybe if enough people are using them we'll get enough mindshare to improve the tools, because really, that's the argument I see most often. "I don't want to do $foo because the tools suck." Not that $foo is a bad idea (although it has been disguised as a bad idea like "$Foo is a terrible idea, it takes to long to do it with our tools.") So really, if we're going to argue about the tools lets argue about them instead. -- Jesse Keating Release Engineer: Fedora -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: signature.asc Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 189 bytes Desc: not available URL: From jspaleta at gmail.com Fri Jul 27 23:52:36 2007 From: jspaleta at gmail.com (Jeff Spaleta) Date: Fri, 27 Jul 2007 15:52:36 -0800 Subject: F8 desktop features In-Reply-To: <1185558931.3650.64.camel@localhost.localdomain> References: <1185550507.3650.33.camel@localhost.localdomain> <1185555775.3650.54.camel@localhost.localdomain> <20070727131036.2aa6cc15@localhost.localdomain> <1185556360.3650.58.camel@localhost.localdomain> <20070727131936.22cf5c6f@localhost.localdomain> <1185557300.3650.60.camel@localhost.localdomain> <20070727135015.5b59f998@localhost.localdomain> <1185558931.3650.64.camel@localhost.localdomain> Message-ID: <604aa7910707271652n4e838535p58cddcf077d357de@mail.gmail.com> On 7/27/07, Matthias Clasen wrote: > Being verbose not so much, more that fact that it feels like applying > for a Fedora Mortgage - you have been pre-approved ! I appreciate the status update to this list, but I'd have to concur with Jesse. We really need to find ways for the active developers to communicate their excitement about 'cool' things which are being worked on as widely as possible. Long term this will help with existing morale and it will help us attract potential new contributors, especially if we communicate interesting areas that could benefit from new involvement. Getting feature ideas into the feature road-mapping process early, increasing the chances of finding a new contributors who wants to help with the work. If we wait and talk about things until their are nearly completed, not only do we set ourselves up to be scooped by other people, but we miss an opportunity to use that feature to grow new community developer talent. If you have suggestions to streamline the feature road-mapping process to make it more worthwhile to use, I'd love to hear them. -jef"For every feature status update to the wiki you post... you get a coupon for one free KK doughnut redeemable next time I am in your town of residence. Offer expires three months from the date of status posting. Offer not valid in Alaska."spaleta From walters at redhat.com Sat Jul 28 00:00:04 2007 From: walters at redhat.com (Colin Walters) Date: Fri, 27 Jul 2007 20:00:04 -0400 Subject: F8 desktop features In-Reply-To: <604aa7910707271652n4e838535p58cddcf077d357de@mail.gmail.com> References: <1185550507.3650.33.camel@localhost.localdomain> <1185555775.3650.54.camel@localhost.localdomain> <20070727131036.2aa6cc15@localhost.localdomain> <1185556360.3650.58.camel@localhost.localdomain> <20070727131936.22cf5c6f@localhost.localdomain> <1185557300.3650.60.camel@localhost.localdomain> <20070727135015.5b59f998@localhost.localdomain> <1185558931.3650.64.camel@localhost.localdomain> <604aa7910707271652n4e838535p58cddcf077d357de@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <1185580804.9833.0.camel@neutron.verbum.private> On Fri, 2007-07-27 at 15:52 -0800, Jeff Spaleta wrote: > On 7/27/07, Matthias Clasen wrote: > > Being verbose not so much, more that fact that it feels like applying > > for a Fedora Mortgage - you have been pre-approved ! > > I appreciate the status update to this list, but I'd have to concur > with Jesse. We really need to find ways for the active developers to > communicate their excitement about 'cool' things which are being > worked on as widely as possible. Blogs? From jspaleta at gmail.com Sat Jul 28 00:05:39 2007 From: jspaleta at gmail.com (Jeff Spaleta) Date: Fri, 27 Jul 2007 16:05:39 -0800 Subject: f8 desktop livecd In-Reply-To: <1185552270.3323.58.camel@neutron.verbum.private> References: <1185552270.3323.58.camel@neutron.verbum.private> Message-ID: <604aa7910707271705n79f49e18ua1ea4b1b3b28267d@mail.gmail.com> On 7/27/07, Colin Walters wrote: > So, following a quick huddle with a few people from the Red Hat desktop > team, we decided to make this LiveCD kickstart file a bit more of a > project. Actually, the project already exists: > > http://git.fedoraproject.org/?p=hosted/livecd;a=summary > > So this mail is just to say that this project exists (and I know a lot > of people didn't know about the difference), and will move forward. For > Fedora 8, it would make sense to more prominently distinguish this > version as the Desktop version. > > Ideally of course, this project will be minimal - for example, the work > to make NetworkManager usable on servers makes sense, and should > continue. I think running it as its own project is a great idea, and a perhaps a leading example of how to use individual livecd concepts as a vehicle for focused integration work. You could think about making a strawman set of ideas for community people to poke at for integration back into the livecd. I think you could use the livecd project as a hook to generate new involvement by more desktop-centric community members. -jef From jspaleta at gmail.com Sat Jul 28 00:15:20 2007 From: jspaleta at gmail.com (Jeff Spaleta) Date: Fri, 27 Jul 2007 16:15:20 -0800 Subject: F8 desktop features In-Reply-To: <1185580804.9833.0.camel@neutron.verbum.private> References: <1185550507.3650.33.camel@localhost.localdomain> <1185555775.3650.54.camel@localhost.localdomain> <20070727131036.2aa6cc15@localhost.localdomain> <1185556360.3650.58.camel@localhost.localdomain> <20070727131936.22cf5c6f@localhost.localdomain> <1185557300.3650.60.camel@localhost.localdomain> <20070727135015.5b59f998@localhost.localdomain> <1185558931.3650.64.camel@localhost.localdomain> <604aa7910707271652n4e838535p58cddcf077d357de@mail.gmail.com> <1185580804.9833.0.camel@neutron.verbum.private> Message-ID: <604aa7910707271715w7cd707b3j9e18363753e6ae53@mail.gmail.com> On 7/27/07, Colin Walters wrote: > Blogs? I love the planet. I'd love the planet more if I could convince developers to do video entries where they were literally foaming at the mouth while attempting to describe the cool crap they were doing. Incoherent, frenetic ramblings which convey passion and excitement about whatever it is they are working on that they are actually passionate or excited about. But I also enjoy live sock puppet theater as a form of high cultural expression worthy of wearing a full tuxedo while in attendance. So take my opinion with a grain of salt. The problem with the planet is.... it also includes post by idiots like me. The feature dashboard in the wiki gives a compelling view that... holy crap Fedora developers are doing a metric buttload of interesting things. The totality of the features, even wacky proposed no where near working features aimed for two releases away, generates a sense of momentum, instead of a sense of inertia. And its a sense of forward looking momentum that is we need to keep refueled. -jef From roguexz at gmail.com Sat Jul 28 10:43:57 2007 From: roguexz at gmail.com (Rogue) Date: Sat, 28 Jul 2007 16:13:57 +0530 Subject: An idea about representing groups of programs as one entity Message-ID: <46AB1DED.3040609@gmail.com> -----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- Hash: SHA1 Hi All, Recently I had a brain-wave (or brain damage if you will) and came out with an idea of extended menu items. I tried to formulate my ideas in a blog entry[1] that I posted a few days ago and was hoping to take it up with a usability group. I would request you to please read the blog entry since I have put together some screen shots too on it. The idea is simple: 1. A lot of applications can be identified as providing the same "feature" 2. In my menu items i see the "feature" as compared to a list of applications 3. This "Feature" item can either be drilled in order to get access to the various "feature-providers", or can be clicked to launch the "preferred" application 4. You can configure your preferred application via the preferred-applications UI. I am not sure if such an idea has already been discussed here or not. If it has, then I would appreciate if someone can point me to the archives that contains the discussion, so that I might be able to better understand the pros and cons of such an approach. thanks, Rogue [1] - http://roguexz.blogspot.com/2007/07/problem-of-many.html p.s.: I posted the same mail to the GNOME Usability list and haven't heard anything!, so I thought I shall try to refine the idea out here first before I take it back upstream. -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: GnuPG v1.4.7 (GNU/Linux) iD8DBQFGqx3tceS9IQvx51YRAv9eAJ9QSWp0cR3yKuNME/1DETEK8xZT2QCfdkcV 1AkNP8/5i3j/sQEQOmuvhs0= =pQly -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- From sundaram at fedoraproject.org Sat Jul 28 11:07:50 2007 From: sundaram at fedoraproject.org (Rahul Sundaram) Date: Sat, 28 Jul 2007 16:37:50 +0530 Subject: f8 desktop livecd In-Reply-To: <1185552270.3323.58.camel@neutron.verbum.private> References: <1185552270.3323.58.camel@neutron.verbum.private> Message-ID: <46AB2386.4060606@fedoraproject.org> Colin Walters wrote: > Hi, > > Some people may not know that in Fedora 7, there was a difference > between the DVD and the Live CD. True. It was a FAQ that I answered in http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Fedora7/FAQ > > So this mail is just to say that this project exists (and I know a lot > of people didn't know about the difference), and will move forward. For > Fedora 8, it would make sense to more prominently distinguish this > version as the Desktop version. A sub project in Fedora has specific requirements since folks started announcing some in a semi random way. This is defined in http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/DefiningProjects. Highlighting the desktop version would be primary be a website and documentation change. If anyone has good content, let the websites team know about that. Rahul From sundaram at fedoraproject.org Sat Jul 28 11:10:13 2007 From: sundaram at fedoraproject.org (Rahul Sundaram) Date: Sat, 28 Jul 2007 16:40:13 +0530 Subject: F8 desktop features In-Reply-To: <1185550507.3650.33.camel@localhost.localdomain> References: <1185550507.3650.33.camel@localhost.localdomain> Message-ID: <46AB2415.4020108@fedoraproject.org> Matthias Clasen wrote: > Given that test1 is around the corner, I thought it might be a good idea > to give a little status update on the features that the desktop team has > been working on for F8: > > NoMoreXFS - Done. There are dozens of font packages that would need to changed still. Might be useful if you drop in a announcement to fedora-devel-announce letting the maintainers know what they need to do. > Bigboard - In test1, run god-mode 1 to turn it on and play with it. god-mode is a awful name. Rahul From jkeating at redhat.com Sat Jul 28 11:11:13 2007 From: jkeating at redhat.com (Jesse Keating) Date: Sat, 28 Jul 2007 07:11:13 -0400 Subject: F8 desktop features In-Reply-To: <46AB2415.4020108@fedoraproject.org> References: <1185550507.3650.33.camel@localhost.localdomain> <46AB2415.4020108@fedoraproject.org> Message-ID: <20070728071113.2c191d8e@ender> On Sat, 28 Jul 2007 16:40:13 +0530 Rahul Sundaram wrote: > god-mode is a awful name. It's a throwback to many ID games such as Doom and Quake, where 'god-mode' meant that you could not be killed. -- Jesse Keating Release Engineer: Fedora -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: signature.asc Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 189 bytes Desc: not available URL: From sundaram at fedoraproject.org Sat Jul 28 11:23:27 2007 From: sundaram at fedoraproject.org (Rahul Sundaram) Date: Sat, 28 Jul 2007 16:53:27 +0530 Subject: F8 desktop features In-Reply-To: <1185556360.3650.58.camel@localhost.localdomain> References: <1185550507.3650.33.camel@localhost.localdomain> <1185555775.3650.54.camel@localhost.localdomain> <20070727131036.2aa6cc15@localhost.localdomain> <1185556360.3650.58.camel@localhost.localdomain> Message-ID: <46AB272F.5010902@fedoraproject.org> Matthias Clasen wrote: > > Well, it is really just the version checklist you see when the release > goes out: comes with the latest Gnome, X, KDE, ... > I assume that list is assembled anyway, without tracking every single > new version as a feature, with all the added overhead that it entails. > > And I really don't think FESCO need to vote on compiz-fusion as an F8 > feature. It boils down to this. Please tell us all what you are working on. People have been asking and we need to communicate information to them. Compiz fusion might just be a version bump to maintainers but for end users it brings in major new functionality. So tell them what you are planning to do with it. Writing a spec that follows the template and throwing in the information that is already in the thread is 10 minutes week. Sending a bi weekly status note in probably another 5. Not a big deal at all. Please do it. Rahul From sundaram at fedoraproject.org Sat Jul 28 11:23:41 2007 From: sundaram at fedoraproject.org (Rahul Sundaram) Date: Sat, 28 Jul 2007 16:53:41 +0530 Subject: F8 desktop features In-Reply-To: <1185556360.3650.58.camel@localhost.localdomain> References: <1185550507.3650.33.camel@localhost.localdomain> <1185555775.3650.54.camel@localhost.localdomain> <20070727131036.2aa6cc15@localhost.localdomain> <1185556360.3650.58.camel@localhost.localdomain> Message-ID: <46AB273D.4030006@fedoraproject.org> Matthias Clasen wrote: > > Well, it is really just the version checklist you see when the release > goes out: comes with the latest Gnome, X, KDE, ... > I assume that list is assembled anyway, without tracking every single > new version as a feature, with all the added overhead that it entails. > > And I really don't think FESCO need to vote on compiz-fusion as an F8 > feature. It boils down to this. Please tell us all what you are working on. People have been asking and we need to communicate information to them. Compiz fusion might just be a version bump to maintainers but for end users it brings in major new functionality. So tell them what you are planning to do with it. Writing a spec that follows the template and throwing in the information that is already in the thread is 10 minutes week. Sending a bi weekly status note in probably another 5. Not a big deal at all. Please do it. Rahul From sundaram at fedoraproject.org Sat Jul 28 11:26:26 2007 From: sundaram at fedoraproject.org (Rahul Sundaram) Date: Sat, 28 Jul 2007 16:56:26 +0530 Subject: Making Fedora Default Theme (release independent stuff) In-Reply-To: <1183622668.2945.48.camel@pc-notebook> References: <1183622668.2945.48.camel@pc-notebook> Message-ID: <46AB27E2.5040509@fedoraproject.org> Martin Sourada wrote: > Hi, > > I am new to this list and subscribed mostly because I posted a message > to art-list recently [1] that contains things that should be discussed > at desktop-list as well. It's about making default theme for fedora - > that means making our gtk/qt(4) theme, metacity/kwm/emerald theme, > notification-daemon theme and maybe more. It should be release > independent. There are some questions that need to be answered first. I > attach the original message for more info. I'd like to ask you for your > opinion about it. > > Thanks, > Martin > > References: > [1] > https://www.redhat.com/archives/fedora-art-list/2007-July/msg00023.html > > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------ > > Subject: > Making Fedora Default Theme (release independent stuff) > From: > Martin Sourada > Date: > Wed, 04 Jul 2007 22:29:43 +0200 (CEST) > To: > Discussions about the artwork included with Fedora, including icons, > themes, and wallpapers. > > To: > Discussions about the artwork included with Fedora, including icons, > themes, and wallpapers. > > > Hi all, > > I have a few questions/suggestions about Fedora release independent > Artwork. Most notably gtk theme, metacity theme, kwm theme, qt(4) theme. > One of the reasons I started the Nodoka [1] theme was an attempt to fill > the gap we have - Fedora has not defined it's artwork so far. So there > are some questions that needs to be answered and I hereby ask your > opinion about them: > > 1. do we want a default Fedora artwork? > 2. do we want to look KDE and GNOME artwork same/similar? > 3. if we do want, who is to decide which one will it be? > 4. is it good to make an n-round competition or just let something to > emerge from the wide community combined efforts? > 5. is the art-list the proper for this discussion or some other lists > needs to be included as well (e.g. fedora-desktop, fedora-devel)? > 6. could it be considered as a 'feature'? This is I guess now a artwork team decision. You might want to talk to KDE SIG and see if they like the idea and then find someone willing to do a QT/KDE theme. Rahul From nphilipp at redhat.com Sat Jul 28 17:15:39 2007 From: nphilipp at redhat.com (Nils Philippsen) Date: Sat, 28 Jul 2007 19:15:39 +0200 Subject: F8 desktop features In-Reply-To: <20070728071113.2c191d8e@ender> References: <1185550507.3650.33.camel@localhost.localdomain> <46AB2415.4020108@fedoraproject.org> <20070728071113.2c191d8e@ender> Message-ID: <1185642939.26716.61.camel@gibraltar.stuttgart.redhat.com> On Sat, 2007-07-28 at 07:11 -0400, Jesse Keating wrote: > On Sat, 28 Jul 2007 16:40:13 +0530 > Rahul Sundaram wrote: > > > god-mode is a awful name. > > It's a throwback to many ID games such as Doom and Quake, where > 'god-mode' meant that you could not be killed. Bah, but in this case, using god-mode kills(*) my classic panel setup, so it's at least a little bit misleading, don't you think? (*): It did that the last time I tried it out and I probably won't try it out again unless somebody vouchsafes for it not treading over my carefully crafted configuration again. If you want me to try something out, I want to be sure that I can easily go back to what I had before if I don't like it(**). (**): The benefit of the Bigboard menu learning what applications I like to use is much outweighed by its eating a good share of my screen real estate _permanently_. My well trained panels hide themselves like the good servants they should emulate -- invisible when not needed. Panels that don't hide themselves are okay, but the Bigboard menu wastes too much space considering that I need it say < 5% of the time (I'm making that number up), the other > 95% of the time it's just in the way. I'd be happy if I could combine the (auto-hiding, self-learning) Bigboard menu with the classical panels I have today. Be my heroes and tell me that my concerns will be addressed in the final version ;-). Nils -- Nils Philippsen / Red Hat / nphilipp at redhat.com "Those who would give up Essential Liberty to purchase a little Temporary Safety, deserve neither Liberty nor Safety." -- B. Franklin, 1759 PGP fingerprint: C4A8 9474 5C4C ADE3 2B8F 656D 47D8 9B65 6951 3011 From jospoortvliet at kde.nl Sun Jul 29 10:19:25 2007 From: jospoortvliet at kde.nl (jos poortvliet) Date: Sun, 29 Jul 2007 12:19:25 +0200 Subject: KDE 4 Beta 1 Message-ID: <200707291219.29392.jospoortvliet@kde.nl> Dear people, The KDE project is about to release it's first beta for KDE 4. The package tarballs are available, to allow distributions to package it. We would like to know if your distribution will have packages available at or soon after the official release date, so we can mention it in the announcement. If so, please provide us with a link or location where to find those packages. If you won't have packages right away, you can tell us when they will be available, so we can mention that. Thank you for your co?peration, The KDE promo team kde-promo at kde.org -- Jos Poortvliet KDE-nl http://www.kde.nl http://www.kde.org Please avoid sending me Word or PowerPoint attachments. See http://www.gnu.org/philosophy/no-word-attachments.html ? ?A: Because it destroys the flow of the conversation ? ?Q: Why is top-posting bad? -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: signature.asc Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 189 bytes Desc: This is a digitally signed message part. URL: From drago01 at gmail.com Sun Jul 29 10:25:23 2007 From: drago01 at gmail.com (dragoran) Date: Sun, 29 Jul 2007 12:25:23 +0200 Subject: KDE 4 Beta 1 In-Reply-To: <200707291219.29392.jospoortvliet@kde.nl> References: <200707291219.29392.jospoortvliet@kde.nl> Message-ID: <46AC6B13.1060806@gmail.com> jos poortvliet wrote: > Dear people, > > The KDE project is about to release it's first beta for KDE 4. The package > tarballs are available, to allow distributions to package it. We would like > to know if your distribution will have packages available at or soon after > the official release date, so we can mention it in the announcement. > > If so, please provide us with a link or location where to find those packages. > If you won't have packages right away, you can tell us when they will be > available, so we can mention that. > kde4 is a planned feature for Fedora 8 so the packages should reach rawhide soon, but for more info wait for the kde maintainers to reply. From jkeating at redhat.com Sun Jul 29 13:10:41 2007 From: jkeating at redhat.com (Jesse Keating) Date: Sun, 29 Jul 2007 09:10:41 -0400 Subject: KDE 4 Beta 1 In-Reply-To: <46AC6B13.1060806@gmail.com> References: <200707291219.29392.jospoortvliet@kde.nl> <46AC6B13.1060806@gmail.com> Message-ID: <20070729091041.456e5ce9@ender> On Sun, 29 Jul 2007 12:25:23 +0200 dragoran wrote: > kde4 is a planned feature for Fedora 8 so the packages should reach > rawhide soon, but for more info wait for the kde maintainers to reply. It is currently a planned feature, but the slips and delays that KDE is having in it's schedule is threatening the likelyhood that Fedora 8 will ship with KDE4 (or any significant part of kde4). -- Jesse Keating Release Engineer: Fedora -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: signature.asc Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 189 bytes Desc: not available URL: From jkeating at redhat.com Sun Jul 29 13:12:48 2007 From: jkeating at redhat.com (Jesse Keating) Date: Sun, 29 Jul 2007 09:12:48 -0400 Subject: KDE 4 Beta 1 In-Reply-To: <20070729091041.456e5ce9@ender> References: <200707291219.29392.jospoortvliet@kde.nl> <46AC6B13.1060806@gmail.com> <20070729091041.456e5ce9@ender> Message-ID: <20070729091248.6afde252@ender> On Sun, 29 Jul 2007 09:10:41 -0400 Jesse Keating wrote: > threatening the likelyhood that Fedora 8 > will ship with KDE4 (or any significant part of kde4). Whoops. I just re-reviewed the Feature page and the fallback plan includes shipping a point release, or at the very very worst case, falling back to 3. -- Jesse Keating Release Engineer: Fedora -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: signature.asc Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 189 bytes Desc: not available URL: From pemboa at gmail.com Sun Jul 29 19:33:26 2007 From: pemboa at gmail.com (Arthur Pemberton) Date: Sun, 29 Jul 2007 14:33:26 -0500 Subject: KDE 4 Beta 1 In-Reply-To: <20070729091248.6afde252@ender> References: <200707291219.29392.jospoortvliet@kde.nl> <46AC6B13.1060806@gmail.com> <20070729091041.456e5ce9@ender> <20070729091248.6afde252@ender> Message-ID: <16de708d0707291233u56649f60l50e4c4b3d4dc6748@mail.gmail.com> On 7/29/07, Jesse Keating wrote: > On Sun, 29 Jul 2007 09:10:41 -0400 > Jesse Keating wrote: > > > threatening the likelyhood that Fedora 8 > > will ship with KDE4 (or any significant part of kde4). > > Whoops. I just re-reviewed the Feature page and the fallback plan > includes shipping a point release, or at the very very worst case, > falling back to 3. > > -- > Jesse Keating > Release Engineer: Fedora Any possibility of delaying the Fedora KDE spin? -- Fedora Core 6 and proud From jkeating at redhat.com Sun Jul 29 22:17:02 2007 From: jkeating at redhat.com (Jesse Keating) Date: Sun, 29 Jul 2007 18:17:02 -0400 Subject: KDE 4 Beta 1 In-Reply-To: <16de708d0707291233u56649f60l50e4c4b3d4dc6748@mail.gmail.com> References: <200707291219.29392.jospoortvliet@kde.nl> <46AC6B13.1060806@gmail.com> <20070729091041.456e5ce9@ender> <20070729091248.6afde252@ender> <16de708d0707291233u56649f60l50e4c4b3d4dc6748@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <20070729181702.15a32a15@ender> On Sun, 29 Jul 2007 14:33:26 -0500 "Arthur Pemberton" wrote: > Any possibility of delaying the Fedora KDE spin? The only KDE specific spin we do is the KDE Live images. Fracturing our release period is not a good thing, nor trivial to accomplish. -- Jesse Keating Release Engineer: Fedora -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: signature.asc Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 189 bytes Desc: not available URL: From walters at redhat.com Mon Jul 30 01:26:08 2007 From: walters at redhat.com (Colin Walters) Date: Sun, 29 Jul 2007 21:26:08 -0400 Subject: F8 desktop features In-Reply-To: <1185642939.26716.61.camel@gibraltar.stuttgart.redhat.com> References: <1185550507.3650.33.camel@localhost.localdomain> <46AB2415.4020108@fedoraproject.org> <20070728071113.2c191d8e@ender> <1185642939.26716.61.camel@gibraltar.stuttgart.redhat.com> Message-ID: <1185758768.3422.7.camel@neutron.verbum.private> On Sat, 2007-07-28 at 19:15 +0200, Nils Philippsen wrote: > On Sat, 2007-07-28 at 07:11 -0400, Jesse Keating wrote: > > On Sat, 28 Jul 2007 16:40:13 +0530 > > Rahul Sundaram wrote: > > > > > god-mode is a awful name. > > > > It's a throwback to many ID games such as Doom and Quake, where > > 'god-mode' meant that you could not be killed. Yeah...it is silly though; just changed it in svn. > Bah, but in this case, using god-mode kills(*) my classic panel setup, > so it's at least a little bit misleading, don't you think? It shouldn't overwrite the existing config; the code just adds new panel configuration to GConf, then changes the default, effectively. > (*): It did that the last time I tried it out and I probably won't try > it out again unless somebody vouchsafes for it not treading over my > carefully crafted configuration again. If you want me to try something > out, I want to be sure that I can easily go back to what I had before if > I don't like it(**). "god-mode 0" should have reverted to the old config; however bonobo-activation-server sometimes locks up during panel changes, and so you may have to restart the session (and killall bonobo-activation-server). > (**): The benefit of the Bigboard menu learning what applications I like > to use is much outweighed by its eating a good share of my screen real > estate _permanently_. Well, we have the "Minimize to panel" option, but it's not a very good solution yet. We'd talked about a design where it would minimize very small, then slide out on top of apps, then go back when you launch an app or something else. > Be my heroes and tell me that my concerns will be addressed in the final > version ;-). I think so, yep. From walters at redhat.com Mon Jul 30 01:30:43 2007 From: walters at redhat.com (Colin Walters) Date: Sun, 29 Jul 2007 21:30:43 -0400 Subject: f8 desktop livecd In-Reply-To: <46AB2386.4060606@fedoraproject.org> References: <1185552270.3323.58.camel@neutron.verbum.private> <46AB2386.4060606@fedoraproject.org> Message-ID: <1185759043.3422.13.camel@neutron.verbum.private> On Sat, 2007-07-28 at 16:37 +0530, Rahul Sundaram wrote: > A sub project in Fedora has specific requirements since folks started > announcing some in a semi random way. This is defined in > http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/DefiningProjects. > > Highlighting the desktop version would be primary be a website and > documentation change. If anyone has good content, let the websites team > know about that. Right, though ideally this isn't a big formal project, just a place where we can tweak some defaults or the like. I think a lot depends on how much time is spent on it, but agreed that at this point it seems clear that we need to differentiate things better on the website at a minimum. Not sure what that text should say yet though... From sundaram at fedoraproject.org Mon Jul 30 08:18:05 2007 From: sundaram at fedoraproject.org (Rahul Sundaram) Date: Mon, 30 Jul 2007 13:48:05 +0530 Subject: f8 desktop livecd In-Reply-To: <1185759043.3422.13.camel@neutron.verbum.private> References: <1185552270.3323.58.camel@neutron.verbum.private> <46AB2386.4060606@fedoraproject.org> <1185759043.3422.13.camel@neutron.verbum.private> Message-ID: <46AD9EBD.3030804@fedoraproject.org> Colin Walters wrote: > > Right, though ideally this isn't a big formal project, just a place > where we can tweak some defaults or the like. I think a lot depends on > how much time is spent on it, but agreed that at this point it seems > clear that we need to differentiate things better on the website at a > minimum. Not sure what that text should say yet though... When we say the Live images are desktop focused, what do we mean by that? Configuration changes like network manager by default, subset of Fedora that is good for desktop usage or something else? Rahul From caillon at redhat.com Mon Jul 30 15:11:27 2007 From: caillon at redhat.com (Christopher Aillon) Date: Mon, 30 Jul 2007 11:11:27 -0400 Subject: F8 desktop features In-Reply-To: <604aa7910707271652n4e838535p58cddcf077d357de@mail.gmail.com> References: <1185550507.3650.33.camel@localhost.localdomain> <1185555775.3650.54.camel@localhost.localdomain> <20070727131036.2aa6cc15@localhost.localdomain> <1185556360.3650.58.camel@localhost.localdomain> <20070727131936.22cf5c6f@localhost.localdomain> <1185557300.3650.60.camel@localhost.localdomain> <20070727135015.5b59f998@localhost.localdomain> <1185558931.3650.64.camel@localhost.localdomain> <604aa7910707271652n4e838535p58cddcf077d357de@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <46ADFF9F.1090809@redhat.com> Jeff Spaleta wrote: > On 7/27/07, Matthias Clasen wrote: >> Being verbose not so much, more that fact that it feels like applying >> for a Fedora Mortgage - you have been pre-approved ! > > I appreciate the status update to this list, but I'd have to concur > with Jesse. We really need to find ways for the active developers to > communicate their excitement about 'cool' things which are being > worked on as widely as possible. So, there are two things here. 1. The Board/FESCo needs this information. I'll agree using those hats. 2. The current way of getting the information is causing headache. "If you want to be allowed to work, you need to plead your case to the Don, and then every two weeks you need to pay up with status reports else your feature gets sent to sleep with the fishes." Using my maintainer hat, I'll agree with Matthias this policy is not ideal. The answer is to continue getting the information but to fix the means of doing so. We're effectively adding hassle rather than inviting people and facilitating communication, which is just wrong wrong WRONG. Possible solutions: * Go to a "point man". Appoint someone from e.g. the KDE Sig, Desktop team, Rel-Eng, etc to provide updates for all relevant features. This lets the engineers do the work, and lets others contribute esp if they aren't necessarily engineers and facilitates intra-team communication. * Ask for updates via IRC, casually. Maintainers tend to be quite responsive when asked casually vs in a formal capacity. It's just geek nature. Fedora needs to mold around they work, not the other way around. A "Feature Manager" would be suited to do this. * Monitor checkins/IRC chat. Slightly more agressive version of the previous. Probably not feasible. * ??? Other ideas here. From sundaram at fedoraproject.org Mon Jul 30 18:24:45 2007 From: sundaram at fedoraproject.org (Rahul Sundaram) Date: Mon, 30 Jul 2007 23:54:45 +0530 Subject: F8 desktop features In-Reply-To: <46ADFF9F.1090809@redhat.com> References: <1185550507.3650.33.camel@localhost.localdomain> <1185555775.3650.54.camel@localhost.localdomain> <20070727131036.2aa6cc15@localhost.localdomain> <1185556360.3650.58.camel@localhost.localdomain> <20070727131936.22cf5c6f@localhost.localdomain> <1185557300.3650.60.camel@localhost.localdomain> <20070727135015.5b59f998@localhost.localdomain> <1185558931.3650.64.camel@localhost.localdomain> <604aa7910707271652n4e838535p58cddcf077d357de@mail.gmail.com> <46ADFF9F.1090809@redhat.com> Message-ID: <46AE2CED.3040000@fedoraproject.org> Christopher Aillon wrote: > 1. The Board/FESCo needs this information. I'll agree using those hats. > > 2. The current way of getting the information is causing headache. "If > you want to be allowed to work, you need to plead your case to the Don, > and then every two weeks you need to pay up with status reports else > your feature gets sent to sleep with the fishes." Using my maintainer > hat, I'll agree with Matthias this policy is not ideal. I am not sure who anybody needs to plead to. FESCo approval is a simple check so that people don't end up putting things non-free software helpers in the roadmap or anything else like that. If we are tracking some features, they would need status reports. The need for that should be obvious. > Possible solutions: > > * Go to a "point man". Appoint someone from e.g. the KDE Sig, Desktop > team, Rel-Eng, etc to provide updates for all relevant features. This > lets the engineers do the work, and lets others contribute esp if they > aren't necessarily engineers and facilitates intra-team communication. Desktop doesn't have a SIG, a list of members, lead, regular irc meetings or a contact point documented unlike the other examples pointed out here but if they do the specs could easily have desktop SIG as the contact point instead of a specific person. That is in fact already the case for example, the spec for the KDE 4 plan where KDE SIG is the owner. Point man is Rex Dieter. > * Ask for updates via IRC, casually. Maintainers tend to be quite > responsive when asked casually vs in a formal capacity. It's just geek > nature. Fedora needs to mold around they work, not the other way > around. A "Feature Manager" would be suited to do this. > * Monitor checkins/IRC chat. Slightly more agressive version of the > previous. Probably not feasible. Formal capacity vs informal chat seems to a matter of sending mails vs asking on IRC. IRC has several problems as a means of tracking features. Spec owners are distributed all over the world. Many of them don't do IRC. Finding which server or channels they hang out in can be difficult. You have to be in the same time zone etc. Sounds tedious to me. Rahul From notting at redhat.com Mon Jul 30 18:27:52 2007 From: notting at redhat.com (Bill Nottingham) Date: Mon, 30 Jul 2007 14:27:52 -0400 Subject: F8 desktop features In-Reply-To: <46AE2CED.3040000@fedoraproject.org> References: <1185555775.3650.54.camel@localhost.localdomain> <20070727131036.2aa6cc15@localhost.localdomain> <1185556360.3650.58.camel@localhost.localdomain> <20070727131936.22cf5c6f@localhost.localdomain> <1185557300.3650.60.camel@localhost.localdomain> <20070727135015.5b59f998@localhost.localdomain> <1185558931.3650.64.camel@localhost.localdomain> <604aa7910707271652n4e838535p58cddcf077d357de@mail.gmail.com> <46ADFF9F.1090809@redhat.com> <46AE2CED.3040000@fedoraproject.org> Message-ID: <20070730182752.GA13519@nostromo.devel.redhat.com> Rahul Sundaram (sundaram at fedoraproject.org) said: > I am not sure who anybody needs to plead to. FESCo approval is a simple > check ... If it involves creating a 10-entry wiki page, waiting 1-2 weeks to get on the FESCo schedule, attending a meeting, waiting another week for status to get updated... I wouldn't call it 'simple'. Bill From sundaram at fedoraproject.org Mon Jul 30 18:37:34 2007 From: sundaram at fedoraproject.org (Rahul Sundaram) Date: Tue, 31 Jul 2007 00:07:34 +0530 Subject: F8 desktop features In-Reply-To: <20070730182752.GA13519@nostromo.devel.redhat.com> References: <1185555775.3650.54.camel@localhost.localdomain> <20070727131036.2aa6cc15@localhost.localdomain> <1185556360.3650.58.camel@localhost.localdomain> <20070727131936.22cf5c6f@localhost.localdomain> <1185557300.3650.60.camel@localhost.localdomain> <20070727135015.5b59f998@localhost.localdomain> <1185558931.3650.64.camel@localhost.localdomain> <604aa7910707271652n4e838535p58cddcf077d357de@mail.gmail.com> <46ADFF9F.1090809@redhat.com> <46AE2CED.3040000@fedoraproject.org> <20070730182752.GA13519@nostromo.devel.redhat.com> Message-ID: <46AE2FEE.6010207@fedoraproject.org> Bill Nottingham wrote: > Rahul Sundaram (sundaram at fedoraproject.org) said: >> I am not sure who anybody needs to plead to. FESCo approval is a simple >> check > > ... If it involves creating a 10-entry wiki page, waiting 1-2 weeks to > get on the FESCo schedule, attending a meeting, waiting another week > for status to get updated... I wouldn't call it 'simple'. Copy template, edit it quickly to add some information. I did it for XULRunner. Hardly took 10 mins. It will get on the FESCO schedule automatically. Attending a meeting is optional. When you create the spec, subscribe to it to know the status. Let people know the progress now and then or update the wiki directly. Looks simple to me. Rahul From krh at bitplanet.net Mon Jul 30 18:58:59 2007 From: krh at bitplanet.net (=?UTF-8?Q?Kristian_H=C3=B8gsberg?=) Date: Mon, 30 Jul 2007 14:58:59 -0400 Subject: F8 desktop features In-Reply-To: <20070727160809.GC6111@nostromo.devel.redhat.com> References: <1185550507.3650.33.camel@localhost.localdomain> <20070727155617.GA6111@nostromo.devel.redhat.com> <59ad55d30707270904m251357fcif0e72795971a5201@mail.gmail.com> <20070727160809.GC6111@nostromo.devel.redhat.com> Message-ID: <59ad55d30707301158j1f4fee1ejd2cfb458b84e6fa1@mail.gmail.com> On 7/27/07, Bill Nottingham wrote: > Kristian H?gsberg (krh at bitplanet.net) said: > > I fixed most of them, and filed a bug for urw-fonts, for which I'm not > > in the acl. Are there other font packages pulling in chkfontpath? > > > > https://bugzilla.redhat.com/bugzilla/show_bug.cgi?id=245784 > > According to repoquery, the following require chkfontpath: I put the list on the wiki page along with extended information about how to update the packages: http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Releases/FeatureNoMoreXFS Kristian From caillon at redhat.com Mon Jul 30 20:32:24 2007 From: caillon at redhat.com (Christopher Aillon) Date: Mon, 30 Jul 2007 16:32:24 -0400 Subject: F8 desktop features In-Reply-To: <46AE2CED.3040000@fedoraproject.org> References: <1185550507.3650.33.camel@localhost.localdomain> <1185555775.3650.54.camel@localhost.localdomain> <20070727131036.2aa6cc15@localhost.localdomain> <1185556360.3650.58.camel@localhost.localdomain> <20070727131936.22cf5c6f@localhost.localdomain> <1185557300.3650.60.camel@localhost.localdomain> <20070727135015.5b59f998@localhost.localdomain> <1185558931.3650.64.camel@localhost.localdomain> <604aa7910707271652n4e838535p58cddcf077d357de@mail.gmail.com> <46ADFF9F.1090809@redhat.com> <46AE2CED.3040000@fedoraproject.org> Message-ID: <46AE4AD8.7010905@redhat.com> Rahul Sundaram wrote: > Christopher Aillon wrote: > >> 1. The Board/FESCo needs this information. I'll agree using those hats. >> >> 2. The current way of getting the information is causing headache. >> "If you want to be allowed to work, you need to plead your case to the >> Don, and then every two weeks you need to pay up with status reports >> else your feature gets sent to sleep with the fishes." Using my >> maintainer hat, I'll agree with Matthias this policy is not ideal. > > I am not sure who anybody needs to plead to. FESCo approval is a simple > check so that people don't end up putting things non-free software > helpers in the roadmap or anything else like that. If we are tracking > some features, they would need status reports. The need for that should > be obvious. As was pointed out on other lists, that doesn't stop anyone from putting in non-free software. They simply have to not write a feature page on the wiki and just do it. We can take recourse, but the FESCo approval process does not stop it if someone wants to do it. So, one could make the argument that FESCo approval should be needed only if someone is unsure about whether it is a good idea; not for everything, which would be more of a "steering" role IMO. >> Possible solutions: >> >> * Go to a "point man". Appoint someone from e.g. the KDE Sig, Desktop >> team, Rel-Eng, etc to provide updates for all relevant features. This >> lets the engineers do the work, and lets others contribute esp if they >> aren't necessarily engineers and facilitates intra-team communication. > > Desktop doesn't have a SIG, a list of members, lead, regular irc > meetings or a contact point documented Yeah. Now if only there was a member of desktop that was on the board/fesco that had stated they wanted to facilitate communication between the desktop team and both the board and fesco as part of their mission statement prior to successfully being elected.... >> * Ask for updates via IRC, casually. Maintainers tend to be quite >> responsive when asked casually vs in a formal capacity. It's just >> geek nature. Fedora needs to mold around they work, not the other way >> around. A "Feature Manager" would be suited to do this. >> * Monitor checkins/IRC chat. Slightly more agressive version of the >> previous. Probably not feasible. > > Formal capacity vs informal chat seems to a matter of sending mails vs > asking on IRC. IRC has several problems as a means of tracking > features. Spec owners are distributed all over the world. Many of them > don't do IRC. Finding which server or channels they hang out in can be > difficult. You have to be in the same time zone etc. Sounds tedious to me. Or we could make you do it since you seem to never sleep and thus are in everyone's timezone. ;-) From sundaram at fedoraproject.org Mon Jul 30 20:51:00 2007 From: sundaram at fedoraproject.org (Rahul Sundaram) Date: Tue, 31 Jul 2007 02:21:00 +0530 Subject: F8 desktop features In-Reply-To: <46AE4AD8.7010905@redhat.com> References: <1185550507.3650.33.camel@localhost.localdomain> <1185555775.3650.54.camel@localhost.localdomain> <20070727131036.2aa6cc15@localhost.localdomain> <1185556360.3650.58.camel@localhost.localdomain> <20070727131936.22cf5c6f@localhost.localdomain> <1185557300.3650.60.camel@localhost.localdomain> <20070727135015.5b59f998@localhost.localdomain> <1185558931.3650.64.camel@localhost.localdomain> <604aa7910707271652n4e838535p58cddcf077d357de@mail.gmail.com> <46ADFF9F.1090809@redhat.com> <46AE2CED.3040000@fedoraproject.org> <46AE4AD8.7010905@redhat.com> Message-ID: <46AE4F34.1070300@fedoraproject.org> Christopher Aillon wrote: > > As was pointed out on other lists, that doesn't stop anyone from putting > in non-free software. They simply have to not write a feature page on > the wiki and just do it. We can take recourse, but the FESCo approval > process does not stop it if someone wants to do it. So, one could make > the argument that FESCo approval should be needed only if someone is > unsure about whether it is a good idea; not for everything, which would > be more of a "steering" role IMO. ... which is fine by me. I don't think a FESCo approval is really necessary for each and every feature. FESCo can generally have a "keep an eye on the feature list" item in their schedule all the time and ask questions if needed. > Yeah. Now if only there was a member of desktop that was on the > board/fesco that had stated they wanted to facilitate communication > between the desktop team and both the board and fesco as part of their > mission statement prior to successfully being elected.... In that case you should list yourself as the feature own for all the desktop related specs. If desktop team is a SIG it should act more like all the other SIG's in Fedora and list the lead, members, tasks to do etc. What the desktop team does was pretty opaque to me and that has improved quite a lot these days since I can read the feature list and this mailing list isn't dead either. KDE SIG is a very good example to follow since they do open weekly irc meetings too which is pretty good to keep track of what that team is doing. > > Or we could make you do it since you seem to never sleep and thus are in > everyone's timezone. ;-) That would work too, seriously. If you want me as a gateway for some of the specs, let me know. Rahul From mclasen at redhat.com Tue Jul 31 15:29:30 2007 From: mclasen at redhat.com (Matthias Clasen) Date: Tue, 31 Jul 2007 11:29:30 -0400 Subject: modemlights applet Message-ID: <1185895770.4210.6.camel@dhcp83-186.boston.redhat.com> Ever since upstream gnome-applets made the modemlights applet depend on gnome-system-tools, we used to include the old modemlights applet from gnome 2.9 in the gnome-applets package. This is obviously problematic, since that code is not maintained at all, and it refuses to build against current kernel headers now. Therefore, I have dropped it from the gnome-applets package in rawhide now. There are some options for people who really depend on the modemlights applet: - start maintaining the old modemlights applet and package it separately - convince upstream to make the gnome-system-tools dependency optional - package gnome-system-tools for Fedora - make sure that the ppp that is going to appear in NetworkManager meets your needs Matthias From walters at redhat.com Tue Jul 31 22:19:09 2007 From: walters at redhat.com (Colin Walters) Date: Tue, 31 Jul 2007 18:19:09 -0400 Subject: livecd hacking Message-ID: <1185920349.12650.4.camel@neutron.verbum.private> I've done some work on the Live CD kickstart images, available here: http://submind.verbum.org/~walters/livecd.git/ (Until Jeremy returns from vacation and can review patches to be put in the main livecd git repository) The most important change so far is to create "livecd-desktop-minimal.ks" which is then used as a basis for: livecd-fedora-desktop.ks livecd-fedora-kde.ks livecd-online-desktop.ks Rather than each thing duplicating a lot of code for the livecd init script, etc. The online-desktop is just a stub right now while I fix up some issues, but I've booted the livecd-fedora-desktop successfully (livecd-desktop-minimal.ks also boots...into twm! Retro.). Admittedly I haven't tested the KDE one, but moving forward this unforking should help us to identify changes common between them which seem like good candidates for comps or Fedora package changes. Sebastian, since you were the last person to touch the KDE bits, could you have a look at these changes? I also added a number of improvements to livecd-creator, the git log has the gory details.