will there be a "cd/dvd burning application" in Fedora 7?

[Bastien Nocera]

On Fri, 2007-05-18 at 11:07 +0200, Valent Turkovic wrote:
> On 5/18/07, Bastien Nocera <bnocera at redhat.com> wrote:
> > On Fri, 2007-05-18 at 10:17 +0200, Valent Turkovic wrote:
> > > Will there be a "cd/dvd burning application" in Fedora 7?
> >
> > There's nautilus-cd-burner
> 
> Nope there is not. Not in my "Application" menu.

You can see it in "Places"

> > > I don't see any "cd/dvd burning application" in gnome menu after a
> > > clean Fedora 7 test 4 install. Why is that?
> >
> > There is, it's nautilus-cd-burner
> 
> I say again, there is not on my default Fedora 7 test 4 install.

Same here.

> > > I know nautilus has burning functionality - but usability wise it is
> > > terrible located and I can bet that no standard user will ever find
> > > it.
> >
> > Ha! So why the rethorical questions?
> 
> No it is not. It was a claim.
> In my application menu under gnome there is not any item called "cd
> burner" or nautilus cd burner... nothing.

It's under Places, again.

> > > Don't you do usability testing? Put a your mum, dad or some fiends and
> > > ask them do try and burn a dvd or cd... and watch what they do.
> >
> > Please avoid flamebaits.
> 
> I'm not throwing flamebaits. I would like you to picture yourselves as
> a new user who just installed his shiny new fedora 7 linux desktiop
> and wan't to burn some files to a cd or a dvd. This user called Pero
> has no idea that nautilus has burning option and concludes that this
> linux thing has no cd/dvd burning app installed.

Then the problem is about making it more discoverable, not adding a menu
entry for another application.

> > If nautilus-cd-burner doesn't have a good interface, please write down
> > the use cases, and explain the current workflow, then we can try to
> > enhance it, and make it better for mum, dad and the friends.
> 
> I don't plan to. I would like to see k3b or at least brasero installed
> by default on fedora desktops because you can't do anything but basic
> burning with nautilus - and that is just confusing.

What do you call advanced? Is it just multi-session discs?

The only other thing you can't do with the default install is mixed CDs
(audio + data), which I've never really seen used except commercially.

> In current scenario you say to users use nautilus if you have simple
> burning tasks, and if you have anything more complex install some
> burning app and use that.

What complex burning tasks?

> And I can say that people I talked to, who are medium-advanced users
> from windows side just don't trust nautilus-burn or don't like it.
> Even if they need to burn just one file - the task nautilus-burn does
> perfectly - they still won't use it.

Why don't they trust it? It uses cdrecord and growisofs just like k3b
does, so I'm not sure why one would be trusting one more than the other.

> If your plan it to make Fedora desktop more accessible to
> windows-switcher this argument is  not you should be ignoring.

We're not ignoring it, just that we don't know what the problem is, and
you're offering a quick-fix, not something thought out with evidence to
back it up.

> I can argure that it is much better to say to users (by having it
> installed by default) - go and use k3b as it can do anything you can
> think off to a dvd or cd. In this case users use only one app  - and
> get familiar with it from the start and don't have us use one in the
> beginning and then switch to using another when nautilus-burn outgrows
> their needs.
> 
> If you are too strict on k3b being a qt app then use brasero instead -
> but use one at least.

We don't want users to need to use k3b, or brasero. They can choose to
install it afterwards (see the discussions about making installation of
new software better).

On thing I can think of for nautilus-cd-burner, is for the "CD/DVD
creator" file manager window to show up in non-spatial mode, with a tree
on the side, so it's easier to see the whole CD mastering tree.

I filed this as:
http://bugzilla.gnome.org/show_bug.cgi?id=439388
and it would need changes to nautilus, gnome-volume-manager and
gnome-panel.