From otte at gnome.org Fri Feb 1 09:58:17 2008 From: otte at gnome.org (Benjamin Otte) Date: Fri, 1 Feb 2008 09:58:17 +0000 (UTC) Subject: swfdec in fedora References: <60c18435.937c2a9.479f34b4.14d02@o2.pl> Message-ID: a3ukasz Peb3szynski o2.pl> writes: > I think fedora should provide good and reliable software. > Swfdec isn't working properly with most sites. > So you think having no Flash site work is a better solution than having some Flash sites work? Cheers, Benjamin From valent.turkovic at gmail.com Fri Feb 1 10:19:12 2008 From: valent.turkovic at gmail.com (Valent Turkovic) Date: Fri, 1 Feb 2008 11:19:12 +0100 Subject: swfdec in fedora In-Reply-To: References: <60c18435.937c2a9.479f34b4.14d02@o2.pl> Message-ID: <64b14b300802010219i2ecc781dn7964977fb94588d8@mail.gmail.com> On Feb 1, 2008 10:58 AM, Benjamin Otte wrote: > a3ukasz Peb3szynski o2.pl> writes: > > > I think fedora should provide good and reliable software. > > Swfdec isn't working properly with most sites. > > > So you think having no Flash site work is a better solution than having some > Flash sites work? > > Cheers, > Benjamin Fixing Firefox to install flash plugin if that is what users want would be the best solution IMHO. See the bugzilla entry for that. Valent. -- http://kernelreloaded.blog385.com/ linux, blog, anime, spirituality, windsurf, wireless registered as user #367004 with the Linux Counter, http://counter.li.org. ICQ: 2125241, Skype: valent.turkovic From valent.turkovic at gmail.com Fri Feb 1 10:21:28 2008 From: valent.turkovic at gmail.com (Valent Turkovic) Date: Fri, 1 Feb 2008 11:21:28 +0100 Subject: swfdec in fedora In-Reply-To: <64b14b300802010219i2ecc781dn7964977fb94588d8@mail.gmail.com> References: <60c18435.937c2a9.479f34b4.14d02@o2.pl> <64b14b300802010219i2ecc781dn7964977fb94588d8@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <64b14b300802010221h7048752esa333a22feb806dac@mail.gmail.com> On Feb 1, 2008 11:19 AM, Valent Turkovic wrote: > On Feb 1, 2008 10:58 AM, Benjamin Otte wrote: > > a3ukasz Peb3szynski o2.pl> writes: > > > > > I think fedora should provide good and reliable software. > > > Swfdec isn't working properly with most sites. > > > > > So you think having no Flash site work is a better solution than having some > > Flash sites work? > > > > Cheers, > > Benjamin > > Fixing Firefox to install flash plugin if that is what users want > would be the best solution IMHO. > See the bugzilla entry for that. https://bugzilla.redhat.com/show_bug.cgi?id=236881 -- http://kernelreloaded.blog385.com/ linux, blog, anime, spirituality, windsurf, wireless registered as user #367004 with the Linux Counter, http://counter.li.org. ICQ: 2125241, Skype: valent.turkovic From david at lovesunix.net Fri Feb 1 10:20:05 2008 From: david at lovesunix.net (David Nielsen) Date: Fri, 01 Feb 2008 11:20:05 +0100 Subject: swfdec in fedora In-Reply-To: References: <60c18435.937c2a9.479f34b4.14d02@o2.pl> Message-ID: <1201861205.12566.18.camel@localhost.localdomain> fre, 01 02 2008 kl. 09:58 +0000, skrev Benjamin Otte: > a3ukasz Peb3szynski o2.pl> writes: > > > I think fedora should provide good and reliable software. > > Swfdec isn't working properly with most sites. > > > So you think having no Flash site work is a better solution than having some > Flash sites work? For what it's worth, on x86_64 swfdec is considerably more reliable than the propritary flash plugin via nspluginwrapper on YouTube. -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: signature.asc Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 189 bytes Desc: Dette er en digitalt underskrevet brevdel URL: From valent.turkovic at gmail.com Fri Feb 1 12:47:50 2008 From: valent.turkovic at gmail.com (Valent Turkovic) Date: Fri, 1 Feb 2008 13:47:50 +0100 Subject: Fedora and 3D Desktop Message-ID: <64b14b300802010447j7ef24f98t44db9b0eb3d3a296@mail.gmail.com> Hi, I'm wondering what is the state of relations between Fedora and compiz-fusion projects? I see that lot of other distros have 3D Desktop as a feature for few releases back even in the installers. In Fedora there is a option "Enable desktop effects" but it looks from users point of view that it is there only so that nobody can't say that fedora project doesn't have 3D desktop feature. I personaly have a feeling when I use it that this feature it is not given enough attention in Fedora. Some distributions ask during the install if users would like to start 3D desktop feature, and in Fedora users usually need to know exactly where to go to enable 3D effects. I'm not saying that one is better that the other, just saying what I see on other distros. I'm not trying to start some flame bait thread, but I'm really asking what is the official Fedora project standpoint regarding 3D Desktop. Cheers, Valent. -- http://kernelreloaded.blog385.com/ linux, blog, anime, spirituality, windsurf, wireless registered as user #367004 with the Linux Counter, http://counter.li.org. ICQ: 2125241, Skype: valent.turkovic From sundaram at fedoraproject.org Fri Feb 1 13:15:25 2008 From: sundaram at fedoraproject.org (Rahul Sundaram) Date: Fri, 01 Feb 2008 18:45:25 +0530 Subject: Fedora and 3D Desktop In-Reply-To: <64b14b300802010447j7ef24f98t44db9b0eb3d3a296@mail.gmail.com> References: <64b14b300802010447j7ef24f98t44db9b0eb3d3a296@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <47A31B6D.5070208@fedoraproject.org> Valent Turkovic wrote: > Hi, > In Fedora there is a option "Enable desktop effects" but it looks from > users point of view that it is there only so that nobody can't say > that fedora project doesn't have 3D desktop feature. You are being obnoxious. AIGLX which is used in most distributions for "3D desktops" today was developed with Fedora. > I'm not trying to start some flame bait thread, but I'm really asking > what is the official Fedora project standpoint regarding 3D Desktop. http://hoegsberg.blogspot.com/2007/08/compiz-and-fedora.html Rahul From dimitris at glezos.com Fri Feb 1 13:42:59 2008 From: dimitris at glezos.com (Dimitris Glezos) Date: Fri, 1 Feb 2008 15:42:59 +0200 Subject: Fedora and 3D Desktop In-Reply-To: <47A31B6D.5070208@fedoraproject.org> References: <64b14b300802010447j7ef24f98t44db9b0eb3d3a296@mail.gmail.com> <47A31B6D.5070208@fedoraproject.org> Message-ID: <6d4237680802010542g6087b2bdsdd641ab400f36d0e@mail.gmail.com> On Feb 1, 2008 3:15 PM, Rahul Sundaram wrote: > Valent Turkovic wrote: > > Hi, > > > In Fedora there is a option "Enable desktop effects" but it looks from > > users point of view that it is there only so that nobody can't say > > that fedora project doesn't have 3D desktop feature. > > You are being obnoxious. AIGLX which is used in most distributions for > "3D desktops" today was developed with Fedora. Maybe Valent is right, that for a *user* (someone unaware of what's under the hood, and, moreover, who coded it) looking at desktop-efffects, it may indeed seem that way. If it does, then we're not giving the correct picture out there. Which is something that nowadays we all agree we should work on fixing. -d > > I'm not trying to start some flame bait thread, but I'm really asking > > what is the official Fedora project standpoint regarding 3D Desktop. > > http://hoegsberg.blogspot.com/2007/08/compiz-and-fedora.html > > Rahul -- Dimitris Glezos Jabber ID: glezos at jabber.org, GPG: 0xA5A04C3B http://dimitris.glezos.com/ "He who gives up functionality for ease of use loses both and deserves neither." (Anonymous) -- From valent.turkovic at gmail.com Fri Feb 1 15:56:50 2008 From: valent.turkovic at gmail.com (Valent Turkovic) Date: Fri, 1 Feb 2008 16:56:50 +0100 Subject: Fedora and 3D Desktop In-Reply-To: <47A31B6D.5070208@fedoraproject.org> References: <64b14b300802010447j7ef24f98t44db9b0eb3d3a296@mail.gmail.com> <47A31B6D.5070208@fedoraproject.org> Message-ID: <64b14b300802010756l2234dbbdn10f10673f503346@mail.gmail.com> On Feb 1, 2008 2:15 PM, Rahul Sundaram wrote: > Valent Turkovic wrote: > > Hi, > > > In Fedora there is a option "Enable desktop effects" but it looks from > > users point of view that it is there only so that nobody can't say > > that fedora project doesn't have 3D desktop feature. > > You are being obnoxious. AIGLX which is used in most distributions for > "3D desktops" today was developed with Fedora. Have I offended you in some way? > > I'm not trying to start some flame bait thread, but I'm really asking > > what is the official Fedora project standpoint regarding 3D Desktop. > > http://hoegsberg.blogspot.com/2007/08/compiz-and-fedora.html > > Rahul I know about aigxl being made by red hat developers, I bloged about it some 3 years ago on my blog when nobody outside red hat knew that aiglx. http://kernelreloaded.blog385.com/index.php/archives/extremni-eyecandy/ ps. thanks for the link, I'll read it right now Valent -- http://kernelreloaded.blog385.com/ linux, blog, anime, spirituality, windsurf, wireless registered as user #367004 with the Linux Counter, http://counter.li.org. ICQ: 2125241, Skype: valent.turkovic From valent.turkovic at gmail.com Fri Feb 1 16:13:06 2008 From: valent.turkovic at gmail.com (Valent Turkovic) Date: Fri, 1 Feb 2008 17:13:06 +0100 Subject: Fedora and 3D Desktop In-Reply-To: <6d4237680802010542g6087b2bdsdd641ab400f36d0e@mail.gmail.com> References: <64b14b300802010447j7ef24f98t44db9b0eb3d3a296@mail.gmail.com> <47A31B6D.5070208@fedoraproject.org> <6d4237680802010542g6087b2bdsdd641ab400f36d0e@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <64b14b300802010813g12e67e5cq9aea862f5a8daafc@mail.gmail.com> On Feb 1, 2008 2:42 PM, Dimitris Glezos wrote: > On Feb 1, 2008 3:15 PM, Rahul Sundaram wrote: > > Valent Turkovic wrote: > > > Hi, > > > > > In Fedora there is a option "Enable desktop effects" but it looks from > > > users point of view that it is there only so that nobody can't say > > > that fedora project doesn't have 3D desktop feature. > > > > You are being obnoxious. AIGLX which is used in most distributions for > > "3D desktops" today was developed with Fedora. > > Maybe Valent is right, that for a *user* (someone unaware of what's > under the hood, and, moreover, who coded it) looking at > desktop-efffects, it may indeed seem that way. If it does, then we're > not giving the correct picture out there. Which is something that > nowadays we all agree we should work on fixing. > > -d I know that you are devels here and that have the other insight that I users do (like me), but please look at it from my perpective. First I know that red hat developers made aiglx (I bloged about it 3 years ago) but since a lot has happened. Novell put out XGL and compiz worked only with XGL in the beginning (novell got a lot of heat for that) and now compiz works with both XGL and aiglx. Then came beryl... and finaly compiz-fusion project. And although I know that all those project benefited from aiglx the general perspection is that "beryl" or now "compiz-fusion" enables 3D to desktop, users don't know that Fedora and Red hat are to thank for most of that. Not for the part of Fedra - I saw lots of distros that enabled "3D Desktop" even as back as 3 releases ago... and Fedora still does not. I read the blog post Rahul gave me and I thought as much - great developers in fedora and red hat want thing to work better so they are fixing issues and not releasing to early. I understand that. Other distros may have gone and enabled it and had more issues that they had positive feedback or and maybe they had more positive feedback, I don't know. This question arose when I saw how fedora pushes the envelope of a modern desktop on many fronts - PulseAudio being just one of them, and using them before other distros, and compare that to 3D Dektop feature looks like 3D desktop is being ignored - this is ofcourse just from a users point of view because I know that there is lot of work "under the hood" that normal users don't see. Valent. -- http://kernelreloaded.blog385.com/ linux, blog, anime, spirituality, windsurf, wireless registered as user #367004 with the Linux Counter, http://counter.li.org. ICQ: 2125241, Skype: valent.turkovic From sundaram at fedoraproject.org Fri Feb 1 16:39:06 2008 From: sundaram at fedoraproject.org (Rahul Sundaram) Date: Fri, 01 Feb 2008 22:09:06 +0530 Subject: Fedora and 3D Desktop In-Reply-To: <64b14b300802010756l2234dbbdn10f10673f503346@mail.gmail.com> References: <64b14b300802010447j7ef24f98t44db9b0eb3d3a296@mail.gmail.com> <47A31B6D.5070208@fedoraproject.org> <64b14b300802010756l2234dbbdn10f10673f503346@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <47A34B2A.2000900@fedoraproject.org> Valent Turkovic wrote: > On Feb 1, 2008 2:15 PM, Rahul Sundaram wrote: >> Valent Turkovic wrote: >>> Hi, >>> In Fedora there is a option "Enable desktop effects" but it looks from >>> users point of view that it is there only so that nobody can't say >>> that fedora project doesn't have 3D desktop feature. >> You are being obnoxious. AIGLX which is used in most distributions for >> "3D desktops" today was developed with Fedora. > > Have I offended you in some way? No. I merely find that claim unnecessary and inflammatory especially with the knowledge that tells you otherwise. Asking a question about development plans is perfectly fine otherwise. Rahul From drago01 at gmail.com Fri Feb 1 16:35:18 2008 From: drago01 at gmail.com (drago01) Date: Fri, 01 Feb 2008 17:35:18 +0100 Subject: Fedora and 3D Desktop In-Reply-To: <64b14b300802010447j7ef24f98t44db9b0eb3d3a296@mail.gmail.com> References: <64b14b300802010447j7ef24f98t44db9b0eb3d3a296@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <47A34A46.1020605@gmail.com> Enabling compiz by default can not be done yet because some applications simply do not work correctly with it (windowed opengl apps etc.). Work is being done to fix this (redirected direct rendering). Without it enabling compiz by default isn't an option, but users have the option to enable it via 4 clicks. From valent.turkovic at gmail.com Fri Feb 1 17:20:39 2008 From: valent.turkovic at gmail.com (Valent Turkovic) Date: Fri, 1 Feb 2008 18:20:39 +0100 Subject: Fedora and 3D Desktop In-Reply-To: <47A34A46.1020605@gmail.com> References: <64b14b300802010447j7ef24f98t44db9b0eb3d3a296@mail.gmail.com> <47A34A46.1020605@gmail.com> Message-ID: <64b14b300802010920g64013e24v5f632bbe3433ea74@mail.gmail.com> On Feb 1, 2008 5:35 PM, drago01 wrote: > Enabling compiz by default can not be done yet because some applications > simply do not work correctly with it (windowed opengl apps etc.). > Work is being done to fix this (redirected direct rendering). > Without it enabling compiz by default isn't an option, but users have > the option to enable it via 4 clicks. This is the answer I was looking for. Thank you Drago. -- http://kernelreloaded.blog385.com/ linux, blog, anime, spirituality, windsurf, wireless registered as user #367004 with the Linux Counter, http://counter.li.org. ICQ: 2125241, Skype: valent.turkovic From valent.turkovic at gmail.com Fri Feb 1 17:24:08 2008 From: valent.turkovic at gmail.com (Valent Turkovic) Date: Fri, 1 Feb 2008 18:24:08 +0100 Subject: Fedora and 3D Desktop In-Reply-To: <47A34B2A.2000900@fedoraproject.org> References: <64b14b300802010447j7ef24f98t44db9b0eb3d3a296@mail.gmail.com> <47A31B6D.5070208@fedoraproject.org> <64b14b300802010756l2234dbbdn10f10673f503346@mail.gmail.com> <47A34B2A.2000900@fedoraproject.org> Message-ID: <64b14b300802010924t780a25eehb10ce745aebe386d@mail.gmail.com> On Feb 1, 2008 5:39 PM, Rahul Sundaram wrote: > Valent Turkovic wrote: > > On Feb 1, 2008 2:15 PM, Rahul Sundaram wrote: > >> Valent Turkovic wrote: > >>> Hi, > >>> In Fedora there is a option "Enable desktop effects" but it looks from > >>> users point of view that it is there only so that nobody can't say > >>> that fedora project doesn't have 3D desktop feature. > >> You are being obnoxious. AIGLX which is used in most distributions for > >> "3D desktops" today was developed with Fedora. > > > > Have I offended you in some way? > > No. I merely find that claim unnecessary and inflammatory especially > with the knowledge that tells you otherwise. Asking a question about > development plans is perfectly fine otherwise. > Why do you believe so strongly that I was dishonest when I said that it wasn't a flame bait? I really wanted an answer about "3D Desktop" and that to me is not equal to aiglx. Aiglx is the base of it AFAIK but doesn't make it by itself. 3D Desktop is for me aiglx+compiz fusion+configuring some defalt behaviour on gnome, etc... Valent. -- http://kernelreloaded.blog385.com/ linux, blog, anime, spirituality, windsurf, wireless registered as user #367004 with the Linux Counter, http://counter.li.org. ICQ: 2125241, Skype: valent.turkovic From sundaram at fedoraproject.org Fri Feb 1 17:41:39 2008 From: sundaram at fedoraproject.org (Rahul Sundaram) Date: Fri, 01 Feb 2008 23:11:39 +0530 Subject: Fedora and 3D Desktop In-Reply-To: <64b14b300802010924t780a25eehb10ce745aebe386d@mail.gmail.com> References: <64b14b300802010447j7ef24f98t44db9b0eb3d3a296@mail.gmail.com> <47A31B6D.5070208@fedoraproject.org> <64b14b300802010756l2234dbbdn10f10673f503346@mail.gmail.com> <47A34B2A.2000900@fedoraproject.org> <64b14b300802010924t780a25eehb10ce745aebe386d@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <47A359D3.5050305@fedoraproject.org> Valent Turkovic wrote: > > Why do you believe so strongly that I was dishonest when I said that > it wasn't a flame bait? You previous claims in the same email looked inconsistent with your last assertion and you have been posting similar mails in other lists too. I would have phrased it entirely differently if I was merely asking a question about Feature X or development plan Y. Besides the blog link I posted was the first hit when searching for "Compiz default in Fedora" Also noticed, http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Features/NewGdm has been updated now with some information on Compiz. Rahul From valent.turkovic at gmail.com Fri Feb 1 18:37:40 2008 From: valent.turkovic at gmail.com (Valent Turkovic) Date: Fri, 1 Feb 2008 19:37:40 +0100 Subject: Fedora and 3D Desktop In-Reply-To: <64b14b300802010924t780a25eehb10ce745aebe386d@mail.gmail.com> References: <64b14b300802010447j7ef24f98t44db9b0eb3d3a296@mail.gmail.com> <47A31B6D.5070208@fedoraproject.org> <64b14b300802010756l2234dbbdn10f10673f503346@mail.gmail.com> <47A34B2A.2000900@fedoraproject.org> <64b14b300802010924t780a25eehb10ce745aebe386d@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <64b14b300802011037q2c349506ra877b3491103638a@mail.gmail.com> On Feb 1, 2008 6:24 PM, Valent Turkovic wrote: > On Feb 1, 2008 5:39 PM, Rahul Sundaram wrote: > > Valent Turkovic wrote: > > > On Feb 1, 2008 2:15 PM, Rahul Sundaram wrote: > > >> Valent Turkovic wrote: > > >>> Hi, > > >>> In Fedora there is a option "Enable desktop effects" but it looks from > > >>> users point of view that it is there only so that nobody can't say > > >>> that fedora project doesn't have 3D desktop feature. > > >> You are being obnoxious. AIGLX which is used in most distributions for > > >> "3D desktops" today was developed with Fedora. > > > > > > Have I offended you in some way? > > > > No. I merely find that claim unnecessary and inflammatory especially > > with the knowledge that tells you otherwise. Asking a question about > > development plans is perfectly fine otherwise. > > > > Why do you believe so strongly that I was dishonest when I said that > it wasn't a flame bait? > > I really wanted an answer about "3D Desktop" and that to me is not > equal to aiglx. Aiglx is the base of it AFAIK but doesn't make it by > itself. > 3D Desktop is for me aiglx+compiz fusion+configuring some defalt > behaviour on gnome, etc... > > > Valent. I have just enabled compiz-fusion, because I usually don't use it... and I have these issues: - keyboard super key currenty isn't properly setup (and I have Cherry Linux keyboard with tux on super key :) ) - some plugins don't work even if they are enabled - shortcuts overlap and start some other effect that ones I setup in CompizConfig Settings These are some minore bugs but still show that compiz and compiz-fusion on Fedora needs some polish compared to other distros that ship compiz and compiz-fusion that JustWork for users. I'm wasn't sure that fedora was even looking to enable compiz, and now that I see it will I'll go and test compiz and compiz fusion more and submit bugs in bz. Cheers, Valent. -- http://kernelreloaded.blog385.com/ linux, blog, anime, spirituality, windsurf, wireless registered as user #367004 with the Linux Counter, http://counter.li.org. ICQ: 2125241, Skype: valent.turkovic From coldkeyes at rochester.rr.com Fri Feb 1 20:34:19 2008 From: coldkeyes at rochester.rr.com (Peter Monte) Date: Fri, 1 Feb 2008 15:34:19 -0500 Subject: (no subject) Message-ID: <002501c86511$d26c2010$0402a8c0@renton> Dear Fedora I would like to be taken off the list, Thanx -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From robi.petranovic at gmail.com Fri Feb 1 20:39:37 2008 From: robi.petranovic at gmail.com (Robi) Date: Fri, 1 Feb 2008 21:39:37 +0100 Subject: (no subject) In-Reply-To: <002501c86511$d26c2010$0402a8c0@renton> References: <002501c86511$d26c2010$0402a8c0@renton> Message-ID: click https://www.redhat.com/mailman/listinfo/fedora-desktop-list, scroll down, enter your e-mail address and click unsubscribe. 2008/2/1 Peter Monte : > Dear Fedora I would like to be taken off the list, Thanx > > -- > Fedora-desktop-list mailing list > Fedora-desktop-list at redhat.com > https://www.redhat.com/mailman/listinfo/fedora-desktop-list > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From coldkeyes at rochester.rr.com Fri Feb 1 21:58:13 2008 From: coldkeyes at rochester.rr.com (Peter Monte) Date: Fri, 1 Feb 2008 16:58:13 -0500 Subject: remove me from the list References: <002501c86511$d26c2010$0402a8c0@renton> Message-ID: <001001c8651d$8b6a0fe0$0402a8c0@renton> ----- Original Message ----- From: Peter Monte To: fedora-desktop-list at redhat.com Sent: Friday, February 01, 2008 3:34 PM Subject: (no subject) Dear Fedora I would like to be taken off the list, Thanx ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ -- Fedora-desktop-list mailing list Fedora-desktop-list at redhat.com https://www.redhat.com/mailman/listinfo/fedora-desktop-list -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From pemboa at gmail.com Fri Feb 1 22:06:50 2008 From: pemboa at gmail.com (Arthur Pemberton) Date: Fri, 1 Feb 2008 16:06:50 -0600 Subject: remove me from the list In-Reply-To: <001001c8651d$8b6a0fe0$0402a8c0@renton> References: <002501c86511$d26c2010$0402a8c0@renton> <001001c8651d$8b6a0fe0$0402a8c0@renton> Message-ID: <16de708d0802011406t52d8be3cye9885ed4755a767f@mail.gmail.com> 2008/2/1 Peter Monte : > > > > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: Peter Monte > To: fedora-desktop-list at redhat.com > Sent: Friday, February 01, 2008 3:34 PM > Subject: (no subject) > > > Dear Fedora I would like to be taken off the list, Thanx > > ________________________________ > > > -- > Fedora-desktop-list mailing list > Fedora-desktop-list at redhat.com > https://www.redhat.com/mailman/listinfo/fedora-desktop-list > -- > Fedora-desktop-list mailing list > Fedora-desktop-list at redhat.com > https://www.redhat.com/mailman/listinfo/fedora-desktop-list Hello, how are you? -- Fedora 7 : sipping some of that moonshine ( www.pembo13.com ) From valent.turkovic at gmail.com Sat Feb 2 10:05:15 2008 From: valent.turkovic at gmail.com (Valent Turkovic) Date: Sat, 2 Feb 2008 11:05:15 +0100 Subject: remove me from the list In-Reply-To: <001001c8651d$8b6a0fe0$0402a8c0@renton> References: <002501c86511$d26c2010$0402a8c0@renton> <001001c8651d$8b6a0fe0$0402a8c0@renton> Message-ID: <64b14b300802020205x5b54b433ma7a3db9ccd0a63f4@mail.gmail.com> 2008/2/1 Peter Monte : > > > > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: Peter Monte > To: fedora-desktop-list at redhat.com > Sent: Friday, February 01, 2008 3:34 PM > Subject: (no subject) > > > Dear Fedora I would like to be taken off the list, Thanx This is Fedora, and once I have you I don't let go :) LOL -- http://kernelreloaded.blog385.com/ linux, blog, anime, spirituality, windsurf, wireless registered as user #367004 with the Linux Counter, http://counter.li.org. ICQ: 2125241, Skype: valent.turkovic From valent.turkovic at gmail.com Sat Feb 2 17:03:03 2008 From: valent.turkovic at gmail.com (Valent Turkovic) Date: Sat, 2 Feb 2008 18:03:03 +0100 Subject: Fedora and 3D Desktop In-Reply-To: <64b14b300802011037q2c349506ra877b3491103638a@mail.gmail.com> References: <64b14b300802010447j7ef24f98t44db9b0eb3d3a296@mail.gmail.com> <47A31B6D.5070208@fedoraproject.org> <64b14b300802010756l2234dbbdn10f10673f503346@mail.gmail.com> <47A34B2A.2000900@fedoraproject.org> <64b14b300802010924t780a25eehb10ce745aebe386d@mail.gmail.com> <64b14b300802011037q2c349506ra877b3491103638a@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <64b14b300802020903u7223b032r81cc90ae565ef4f1@mail.gmail.com> On Feb 1, 2008 7:37 PM, Valent Turkovic wrote: > I have just enabled compiz-fusion, because I usually don't use it... > and I have these issues: > - keyboard super key currenty isn't properly setup (and I have Cherry > Linux keyboard with tux on super key :) ) > - some plugins don't work even if they are enabled > - shortcuts overlap and start some other effect that ones I setup in > CompizConfig Settings > > These are some minore bugs but still show that compiz and > compiz-fusion on Fedora needs some polish compared to other distros > that ship compiz and compiz-fusion that JustWork for users. > > I'm wasn't sure that fedora was even looking to enable compiz, and now > that I see it will I'll go and test compiz and compiz fusion more and > submit bugs in bz. https://bugzilla.redhat.com/show_bug.cgi?id=431302 I also found this bug and it affects KDE4 and gnome desktop with compiz running with dual screen setup. Valent. -- http://kernelreloaded.blog385.com/ linux, blog, anime, spirituality, windsurf, wireless registered as user #367004 with the Linux Counter, http://counter.li.org. ICQ: 2125241, Skype: valent.turkovic From jspaleta at gmail.com Sun Feb 3 23:28:22 2008 From: jspaleta at gmail.com (Jeff Spaleta) Date: Sun, 3 Feb 2008 14:28:22 -0900 Subject: Fedora and 3D Desktop In-Reply-To: <64b14b300802010447j7ef24f98t44db9b0eb3d3a296@mail.gmail.com> References: <64b14b300802010447j7ef24f98t44db9b0eb3d3a296@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <604aa7910802031528p19f61a81y661cbf8bbffb6fb1@mail.gmail.com> On Feb 1, 2008 3:47 AM, Valent Turkovic wrote: > Some distributions ask during the > install if users would like to start 3D desktop feature, and in Fedora > users usually need to know exactly where to go to enable 3D effects. > I'm not saying that one is better that the other, just saying what I > see on other distros. In the future, please do not make general comparisons about 'other distros' when you want to make a comparative statement. If you want to make a comparison, say specifically which distros you want other people to look at. There's absolutely no way for me to know which distros you are talking about.. and i'm sure as hell not going to start randomly installing distros from distrowatch in an effort to understand exactly what you are talking about. Valent, you have already commented in another location that you want to see podcasts. Here's is a perfect example where YOU could have provided some sort of video podcast for the rest of us to watch so the we can understand exactly what you are talking about.. It would have been a very good use of a video podcast. Making some rather generalized statements about unspecified 'other distros' doesn't give us enough information to even have a competent dialog. In the future, you must be more specific. -jef. -jef From valent.turkovic at gmail.com Mon Feb 4 17:59:24 2008 From: valent.turkovic at gmail.com (Valent Turkovic) Date: Mon, 4 Feb 2008 18:59:24 +0100 Subject: Fedora and 3D Desktop In-Reply-To: <604aa7910802031528p19f61a81y661cbf8bbffb6fb1@mail.gmail.com> References: <64b14b300802010447j7ef24f98t44db9b0eb3d3a296@mail.gmail.com> <604aa7910802031528p19f61a81y661cbf8bbffb6fb1@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <64b14b300802040959i4fa6d6c6y6c885af34f8082ec@mail.gmail.com> On Feb 4, 2008 12:28 AM, Jeff Spaleta wrote: > On Feb 1, 2008 3:47 AM, Valent Turkovic wrote: > > Some distributions ask during the > > install if users would like to start 3D desktop feature, and in Fedora > > users usually need to know exactly where to go to enable 3D effects. > > I'm not saying that one is better that the other, just saying what I > > see on other distros. > > > In the future, please do not make general comparisons about 'other > distros' when you want to make a comparative statement. If you want > to make a comparison, say specifically which distros you want other > people to look at. There's absolutely no way for me to know which > distros you are talking about.. and i'm sure as hell not going to > start randomly installing distros from distrowatch in an effort to > understand exactly what you are talking about. Well I had a really bad experience on fedora lists with naming the exact distros and that is why I opted to be a bit elusive this time. My experience is that fedora devels (or non devels on this lists) don't like mentioning names like ubuntu, opensuse, mandriva, etc... and don't like being compared and that is why I didn't name any names. Ubuntu and Mandriva are the ones I thought about but didn't mention out loud. > Valent, you have already commented in another location that you want > to see podcasts. Here's is a perfect example where YOU could have > provided some sort of video podcast for the rest of us to watch so the > we can understand exactly what you are talking about.. It would have > been a very good use of a video podcast. Making some rather > generalized statements about unspecified 'other distros' doesn't give > us enough information to even have a competent dialog. Can you be just a bit more specific? I can do that... what would be cool - a video podcast about comparing fedora and different distros of 3D desktop bugs I came across? > In the future, you must be more specific. No problem. Cheers, Valent. -- http://kernelreloaded.blog385.com/ linux, blog, anime, spirituality, windsurf, wireless registered as user #367004 with the Linux Counter, http://counter.li.org. ICQ: 2125241, Skype: valent.turkovic From valent.turkovic at gmail.com Mon Feb 4 21:25:33 2008 From: valent.turkovic at gmail.com (Valent Turkovic) Date: Mon, 4 Feb 2008 22:25:33 +0100 Subject: Fedora and 3D Desktop In-Reply-To: <64b14b300802040959i4fa6d6c6y6c885af34f8082ec@mail.gmail.com> References: <64b14b300802010447j7ef24f98t44db9b0eb3d3a296@mail.gmail.com> <604aa7910802031528p19f61a81y661cbf8bbffb6fb1@mail.gmail.com> <64b14b300802040959i4fa6d6c6y6c885af34f8082ec@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <64b14b300802041325h2eaac060u382ecee9e63b55a2@mail.gmail.com> On Feb 4, 2008 6:59 PM, Valent Turkovic wrote: > > Valent, you have already commented in another location that you want > > to see podcasts. Here's is a perfect example where YOU could have > > provided some sort of video podcast for the rest of us to watch so the > > we can understand exactly what you are talking about.. It would have > > been a very good use of a video podcast. Making some rather > > generalized statements about unspecified 'other distros' doesn't give > > us enough information to even have a competent dialog. I had an unfortunate lapsus calami in previous post. I wanted to ask what would be interesting to see in video podcast form? Would it be more interesting to compare some features that I see other distros have that would also be beneficial in Fedora? Or are you talking about 3D Desktop and that it would be interesting for you to see issues with regular usage of 3D Desktop on Fedora? Cheers, Valent. -- http://kernelreloaded.blog385.com/ linux, blog, anime, spirituality, windsurf, wireless registered as user #367004 with the Linux Counter, http://counter.li.org. ICQ: 2125241, Skype: valent.turkovic From jspaleta at gmail.com Tue Feb 5 01:12:00 2008 From: jspaleta at gmail.com (Jeff Spaleta) Date: Mon, 4 Feb 2008 16:12:00 -0900 Subject: Fedora and 3D Desktop In-Reply-To: <64b14b300802041325h2eaac060u382ecee9e63b55a2@mail.gmail.com> References: <64b14b300802010447j7ef24f98t44db9b0eb3d3a296@mail.gmail.com> <604aa7910802031528p19f61a81y661cbf8bbffb6fb1@mail.gmail.com> <64b14b300802040959i4fa6d6c6y6c885af34f8082ec@mail.gmail.com> <64b14b300802041325h2eaac060u382ecee9e63b55a2@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <604aa7910802041712v59826b89qb3b55a66ed8053a0@mail.gmail.com> On Feb 4, 2008 12:25 PM, Valent Turkovic wrote: > I wanted to ask what would be interesting to see in video podcast form? > Would it be more interesting to compare some features that I see other > distros have that would also be beneficial in Fedora? I personally do not care about what other distros do or do not do. I personally don't care about any of this 3d desktop crap... at all. Even when it looks good... its pointless distraction. What I am suggesting is that you need to find a better way to communicate some of what you care about, in a way that persuades other people to care. Right now your writing style on mailinglists is starting to put people off. If your ultimate goal is to persuade other people to act on things you want to see done, you need to make some adjustments in your approach, or you are just going to be tuned out. I'm even having a hard time at this point, and I'm making an effort, a serious effort, to watch what you post and respond constructively. You've previously stated that you want to see podcasts... well here's your chance to take a leading role and start producing podcast and by doing so encouraging people to follow your lead. -jef From mcepl at redhat.com Tue Feb 5 16:46:08 2008 From: mcepl at redhat.com (Matej Cepl) Date: Tue, 05 Feb 2008 17:46:08 +0100 Subject: Mozilla Prism in Fedora? References: <64b14b300801281410g8810f2dhb4844169fe7a3ac1@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: On Mon, 28 Jan 2008 23:10:50 +0100, Valent Turkovic scripst: > Download[2] Prism and check it out. Even better, prepare a package for review and let us know you need it reviewed. :-) Mat?j -- The content of this message is licensed under a Creative Commons Attribution 3.0 License, Some Rights Reserved. http://creativecommons.org/licenses/by/3.0/us/ From valent.turkovic at gmail.com Wed Feb 6 16:51:49 2008 From: valent.turkovic at gmail.com (Valent Turkovic) Date: Wed, 6 Feb 2008 17:51:49 +0100 Subject: Mozilla Prism in Fedora? In-Reply-To: References: <64b14b300801281410g8810f2dhb4844169fe7a3ac1@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <64b14b300802060851h4bf821e2u84eea0ef1716d975@mail.gmail.com> On Feb 5, 2008 5:46 PM, Matej Cepl wrote: > On Mon, 28 Jan 2008 23:10:50 +0100, Valent Turkovic scripst: > > Download[2] Prism and check it out. > > Even better, prepare a package for review and let us know you need it > reviewed. :-) > > Mat?j > > -- > The content of this message is licensed under a Creative Commons > Attribution 3.0 License, Some Rights Reserved. > http://creativecommons.org/licenses/by/3.0/us/ ;) -- http://kernelreloaded.blog385.com/ linux, blog, anime, spirituality, windsurf, wireless registered as user #367004 with the Linux Counter, http://counter.li.org. ICQ: 2125241, Skype: valent.turkovic From valent.turkovic at gmail.com Thu Feb 7 17:12:04 2008 From: valent.turkovic at gmail.com (Valent Turkovic) Date: Thu, 07 Feb 2008 18:12:04 +0100 Subject: yum-presto on Live CD? Message-ID: <47AB3BE4.5090909@gmail.com> Hi, can you please tell me if yum-presto plugin will be installed by default on fedora 9 live cd? Thank you, Valent. From sundaram at fedoraproject.org Sat Feb 9 00:52:18 2008 From: sundaram at fedoraproject.org (Rahul Sundaram) Date: Sat, 09 Feb 2008 06:22:18 +0530 Subject: yum-presto on Live CD? In-Reply-To: <47AB3BE4.5090909@gmail.com> References: <47AB3BE4.5090909@gmail.com> Message-ID: <47ACF942.8090305@fedoraproject.org> Valent Turkovic wrote: > Hi, > can you please tell me if yum-presto plugin will be installed by default > on fedora 9 live cd? Unlikely since there are no official mirrors hosting delta rpm packages. http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Infrastructure/PrestoBuildsysIntegration Rahul From valent.turkovic at gmail.com Sat Feb 9 12:05:24 2008 From: valent.turkovic at gmail.com (Valent Turkovic) Date: Sat, 9 Feb 2008 13:05:24 +0100 Subject: yum-presto on Live CD? In-Reply-To: <47ACF942.8090305@fedoraproject.org> References: <47AB3BE4.5090909@gmail.com> <47ACF942.8090305@fedoraproject.org> Message-ID: <64b14b300802090405q2d43a157s64de1b79cb902d3@mail.gmail.com> On Feb 9, 2008 1:52 AM, Rahul Sundaram wrote: > Valent Turkovic wrote: > > Hi, > > can you please tell me if yum-presto plugin will be installed by default > > on fedora 9 live cd? > > Unlikely since there are no official mirrors hosting delta rpm packages. > > http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Infrastructure/PrestoBuildsysIntegration > > Rahul Could this one be more refined somehow so it can be used: http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Infrastructure/PrestoBuildsysIntegration#head-d48a45fd3933c3aa07a085a904db3e30e0142111 Do you have some contacts with opensuse guys? They are using deltarpm for last 3 or even more releases so maybe their insight would help you somehow? It would be a shame not to have this great feature in Fedora 9. Valent. -- http://kernelreloaded.blog385.com/ linux, blog, anime, spirituality, windsurf, wireless registered as user #367004 with the Linux Counter, http://counter.li.org. ICQ: 2125241, Skype: valent.turkovic From valent.turkovic at gmail.com Sat Feb 9 13:31:45 2008 From: valent.turkovic at gmail.com (Valent Turkovic) Date: Sat, 9 Feb 2008 14:31:45 +0100 Subject: yum-presto on Live CD? In-Reply-To: <47ACF942.8090305@fedoraproject.org> References: <47AB3BE4.5090909@gmail.com> <47ACF942.8090305@fedoraproject.org> Message-ID: <64b14b300802090531j742e88caj3c9fa209e6a80169@mail.gmail.com> On Feb 9, 2008 1:52 AM, Rahul Sundaram wrote: > Valent Turkovic wrote: > > Hi, > > can you please tell me if yum-presto plugin will be installed by default > > on fedora 9 live cd? > > Unlikely since there are no official mirrors hosting delta rpm packages. > > http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Infrastructure/PrestoBuildsysIntegration > > Rahul This is the email I sent to opensuse packaging mailing list: Hi, let me first introduce myself. I'm a Fedora contributor and Fedora Ambassador for Croatia, but I'm not directly part od Fedora board or Fedora Project. Still I would like to ask you for assistance in one matter that you have more experience dealing that Fedora - and that is deltarpm. Fedora 9 features list has Presto[1] on it - it is a yum plugin that handles deltarpms during updates. Currently the deltarpm integration is stuck because the infrastructure team is stuck[2] in its implementation. Is there some way in which you can help with your longer experience with handling deltarpm files so that this greatly needed feature comes on by default in Fedora 9? Is there some other list that is more specialized on this sort of topics that I would be better of trying elsewere? Cheers, Valent from Croatia. [1] http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Releases/FeaturePresto [2] http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Infrastructure/PrestoBuildsysIntegration -- http://kernelreloaded.blog385.com/ linux, blog, anime, spirituality, windsurf, wireless registered as user #367004 with the Linux Counter, http://counter.li.org. ICQ: 2125241, Skype: valent.turkovic From sundaram at fedoraproject.org Sat Feb 9 13:56:00 2008 From: sundaram at fedoraproject.org (Rahul Sundaram) Date: Sat, 09 Feb 2008 19:26:00 +0530 Subject: yum-presto on Live CD? In-Reply-To: <64b14b300802090405q2d43a157s64de1b79cb902d3@mail.gmail.com> References: <47AB3BE4.5090909@gmail.com> <47ACF942.8090305@fedoraproject.org> <64b14b300802090405q2d43a157s64de1b79cb902d3@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <47ADB0F0.20502@fedoraproject.org> Valent Turkovic wrote: > On Feb 9, 2008 1:52 AM, Rahul Sundaram wrote: >> Valent Turkovic wrote: >>> Hi, >>> can you please tell me if yum-presto plugin will be installed by default >>> on fedora 9 live cd? >> Unlikely since there are no official mirrors hosting delta rpm packages. >> >> http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Infrastructure/PrestoBuildsysIntegration >> >> Rahul > > Could this one be more refined somehow so it can be used: > http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Infrastructure/PrestoBuildsysIntegration#head-d48a45fd3933c3aa07a085a904db3e30e0142111 > > Do you have some contacts with opensuse guys? They are using deltarpm > for last 3 or even more releases so maybe their insight would help you > somehow? The Fedora buildsystem is unique to Fedora. For the client side, the presto developers have been in touch but that isn't going to help with build system integration. Rahul From gmureddu at prodigy.net.mx Tue Feb 12 17:54:07 2008 From: gmureddu at prodigy.net.mx (Gian Paolo Mureddu) Date: Tue, 12 Feb 2008 11:54:07 -0600 Subject: OOo Draw in the menus Message-ID: <47B1DD3F.3090509@prodigy.net.mx> Some time ago I posted to the Marketing list about a little "test" I was performing with some friends and family who are (or rather were) not familiar with Linux or Fedora at all, and were exposed to the LiveCD. There were some interesting comments and I generated an OOo enabled LiveCD for them to test with it. At any rate, part of the feedback I got since then, was about OOo Draw. Basically one of my relatives found out about it from the main File - New menu entry on the various OOo programs. Thinking it was part of Impress I got an e-mail asking about it. The e-mail basically said that if "this draw application was part of Impress why it had another entry in the File - New menu. I then proceeded to explain that OOo draw is another application, and was immediately caught off guard when I got a prompt reply of "How come, then that it doesn't have an applications menu entry, if it is a full blown app of its own, then?" And that's why I ask here, since I double checked on my four other Fedora machines (one desktop running F8, another running F7, yet another running F9 alpha and a laptop with F8), and indeed openoffice.org-draw is installed, but there is no menu entry for the application, even though there is the .desktop file /usr/share/applications/, any particular reason why it isn't included in either the Office or Graphics applications menus? Thanks in advance. From caolanm at redhat.com Wed Feb 13 18:26:01 2008 From: caolanm at redhat.com (Caolan McNamara) Date: Wed, 13 Feb 2008 18:26:01 +0000 Subject: OOo Draw in the menus In-Reply-To: <47B1DD3F.3090509@prodigy.net.mx> References: <47B1DD3F.3090509@prodigy.net.mx> Message-ID: <1202927161.28468.469.camel@Jehannum> On Tue, 2008-02-12 at 11:54 -0600, Gian Paolo Mureddu wrote: > about OOo Draw. ... > /usr/share/applications/, any particular reason why it isn't included in > either the Office or Graphics applications menus? Well https://bugzilla.redhat.com/show_bug.cgi?id=156677#c4 is why it (and oomath) was marked as NoDisplay=true on the urging of the then UI/UX-team. C. From mknepher at bluethingy.com Thu Feb 14 15:24:24 2008 From: mknepher at bluethingy.com (Michael Knepher) Date: Thu, 14 Feb 2008 07:24:24 -0800 Subject: OOo Draw in the menus In-Reply-To: <1202927161.28468.469.camel@Jehannum> References: <47B1DD3F.3090509@prodigy.net.mx> <1202927161.28468.469.camel@Jehannum> Message-ID: <1203002664.6344.7.camel@tol-sirion> On Wed, 2008-02-13 at 18:26 +0000, Caolan McNamara wrote: > On Tue, 2008-02-12 at 11:54 -0600, Gian Paolo Mureddu wrote: > > about OOo Draw. > ... > > /usr/share/applications/, any particular reason why it isn't included in > > either the Office or Graphics applications menus? > > Well https://bugzilla.redhat.com/show_bug.cgi?id=156677#c4 is why it > (and oomath) was marked as NoDisplay=true on the urging of the then > UI/UX-team. > While I would agree about OOo Math, I think the decision to hide Draw is shortsighted, and based on a misunderstanding of the nature of the program. It is not analogous to the draw features in MS Office, where the drawing functionality is entirely subordinate to the context of Word or Excel. OOo Draw is a fully fledged document-centric vector drawing application, and definitely deserves its own menu item. From gmureddu at prodigy.net.mx Thu Feb 14 20:15:47 2008 From: gmureddu at prodigy.net.mx (Gian Paolo Mureddu) Date: Thu, 14 Feb 2008 14:15:47 -0600 Subject: OOo Draw in the menus In-Reply-To: <1203002664.6344.7.camel@tol-sirion> References: <47B1DD3F.3090509@prodigy.net.mx> <1202927161.28468.469.camel@Jehannum> <1203002664.6344.7.camel@tol-sirion> Message-ID: <47B4A173.4090803@prodigy.net.mx> Michael Knepher escribi?: > On Wed, 2008-02-13 at 18:26 +0000, Caolan McNamara wrote: > >> On Tue, 2008-02-12 at 11:54 -0600, Gian Paolo Mureddu wrote: >> >>> about OOo Draw. >>> >> ... >> >>> /usr/share/applications/, any particular reason why it isn't included in >>> either the Office or Graphics applications menus? >>> >> Well https://bugzilla.redhat.com/show_bug.cgi?id=156677#c4 is why it >> (and oomath) was marked as NoDisplay=true on the urging of the then >> UI/UX-team. >> >> > > While I would agree about OOo Math, I think the decision to hide Draw is > shortsighted, and based on a misunderstanding of the nature of the > program. It is not analogous to the draw features in MS Office, where > the drawing functionality is entirely subordinate to the context of Word > or Excel. OOo Draw is a fully fledged document-centric vector drawing > application, and definitely deserves its own menu item. > > Actually that's what one of the users who complained about it told me. Apparently Draw is very good at making diagrams, where Inkscape is better suited for other (more advanced) drawing tools. Sure you can still make diagrams in Inkscape, but apparently it is fairly easy to do them in Draw. I think it would be a good idea to give Draw its own menu entry. Now as to per that bugzilla "convention" the name for it should only be "Draw!" or "Drawing Tool" and to avoid confusion maybe a comment along the lines of "A document centric drawing tool, that uses the open document format" or some such. From nicu_fedora at nicubunu.ro Fri Feb 15 07:04:07 2008 From: nicu_fedora at nicubunu.ro (Nicu Buculei) Date: Fri, 15 Feb 2008 09:04:07 +0200 Subject: OOo Draw in the menus In-Reply-To: <47B4A173.4090803@prodigy.net.mx> References: <47B1DD3F.3090509@prodigy.net.mx> <1202927161.28468.469.camel@Jehannum> <1203002664.6344.7.camel@tol-sirion> <47B4A173.4090803@prodigy.net.mx> Message-ID: <47B53967.2000008@nicubunu.ro> Gian Paolo Mureddu wrote: > Actually that's what one of the users who complained about it told me. > Apparently Draw is very good at making diagrams, where Inkscape is > better suited for other (more advanced) drawing tools. Sure you can > still make diagrams in Inkscape, but apparently it is fairly easy to do > them in Draw. I think it would be a good idea to give Draw its own menu > entry. Now as to per that bugzilla "convention" the name for it should > only be "Draw!" or "Drawing Tool" and to avoid confusion maybe a comment > along the lines of "A document centric drawing tool, that uses the open > document format" or some such. If is any worth into it, when the decision was made Inkscape was not part of Fedora *Core* and neither now is part of the default install on the majority of Fedora spins, that leave us with only one drawing application in the default install, OOo Draw, which is not included in any menu, so very un-discoverable by common users. So i think either install Inkscape by default (in the spins related to the desktop usage) or put Draw in the menu. -- nicu :: http://nicubunu.ro :: http://nicubunu.blogspot.com Cool Fedora wallpapers: http://fedora.nicubunu.ro/wallpapers/ Open Clip Art Library: http://www.openclipart.org my Fedora stuff: http://fedora.nicubunu.ro From jspaleta at gmail.com Fri Feb 15 22:18:55 2008 From: jspaleta at gmail.com (Jeff Spaleta) Date: Fri, 15 Feb 2008 13:18:55 -0900 Subject: OOo Draw in the menus In-Reply-To: <47B53967.2000008@nicubunu.ro> References: <47B1DD3F.3090509@prodigy.net.mx> <1202927161.28468.469.camel@Jehannum> <1203002664.6344.7.camel@tol-sirion> <47B4A173.4090803@prodigy.net.mx> <47B53967.2000008@nicubunu.ro> Message-ID: <604aa7910802151418u7bb651fcrbcc1698c1595b1ad@mail.gmail.com> On Thu, Feb 14, 2008 at 10:04 PM, Nicu Buculei wrote: > If is any worth into it, when the decision was made Inkscape was not > part of Fedora *Core* and neither now is part of the default install on > the majority of Fedora spins, that leave us with only one drawing > application in the default install, OOo Draw, which is not included in > any menu, so very un-discoverable by common users. > So i think either install Inkscape by default (in the spins related to > the desktop usage) or put Draw in the menu. Even with Inkscape installed, I still make use of OODraw when I'm working on things that I know I'm going to use later in an OO presentation. I've built up a set of stock diagrams and junk that way to reuse. In fact I've made a panel launcher for oodraw just to make it easy to access. -jef From gmureddu at prodigy.net.mx Sat Feb 16 05:57:09 2008 From: gmureddu at prodigy.net.mx (Gian Paolo Mureddu) Date: Fri, 15 Feb 2008 23:57:09 -0600 Subject: OOo Draw in the menus In-Reply-To: <47B4A173.4090803@prodigy.net.mx> References: <47B1DD3F.3090509@prodigy.net.mx> <1202927161.28468.469.camel@Jehannum> <1203002664.6344.7.camel@tol-sirion> <47B4A173.4090803@prodigy.net.mx> Message-ID: <47B67B35.7060007@prodigy.net.mx> So do Nicu and Jeff answers, along with my own observations and those of the users I've put to a "test" would be safe to assume that it would be better for us to remove that NoDisplay=True from OOo-Draw and make it available under Graphics in upcoming releases (and probably through an update in F7, F8), or are the reasons discussed here not enough? Should we file an RFE in bugzilla? From jansen at strw.leidenuniv.nl Mon Feb 18 11:23:22 2008 From: jansen at strw.leidenuniv.nl (David Jansen) Date: Mon, 18 Feb 2008 12:23:22 +0100 Subject: OOo Draw in the menus In-Reply-To: <47B67B35.7060007@prodigy.net.mx> References: <47B67B35.7060007@prodigy.net.mx> Message-ID: <20080218112322.GA4024@strw.leidenuniv.nl> On Fri, Feb 15, 2008 at 11:57:09PM -0600, Gian Paolo Mureddu wrote: > So do Nicu and Jeff answers, along with my own observations and those of > the users I've put to a "test" would be safe to assume that it would be > better for us to remove that NoDisplay=True from OOo-Draw and make it > available under Graphics in upcoming releases (and probably through an > update in F7, F8), or are the reasons discussed here not enough? Should we > file an RFE in bugzilla? Enabling the menu item in upcoming versions or updates sounds like a good idea (pushing an update for F7 and F8 just to enable teh menu item sounds like overkill though). On a related note: OpenOffice(.org) has become a well-known name. I understand the sentiment of having functional names like "Word Processor" in the menu, but perhaps the tooltip displayed from the menu couls at least mention that this is OpenOffice. A lot of other programs, like Firefox, Evolution, Gnumeric etc have their name included somewhere, either directly in the menu, or in the tooltip. David Jansen From stefmanos at gmail.com Mon Feb 18 17:57:19 2008 From: stefmanos at gmail.com (Stephanos Manos) Date: Mon, 18 Feb 2008 19:57:19 +0200 Subject: OOo Draw in the menus In-Reply-To: <20080218112322.GA4024@strw.leidenuniv.nl> References: <47B67B35.7060007@prodigy.net.mx> <20080218112322.GA4024@strw.leidenuniv.nl> Message-ID: David Jansen wrote: > On Fri, Feb 15, 2008 at 11:57:09PM -0600, Gian Paolo Mureddu wrote: >> So do Nicu and Jeff answers, along with my own observations and those of >> the users I've put to a "test" would be safe to assume that it would be >> better for us to remove that NoDisplay=True from OOo-Draw and make it >> available under Graphics in upcoming releases (and probably through an >> update in F7, F8), or are the reasons discussed here not enough? Should we >> file an RFE in bugzilla? > > Enabling the menu item in upcoming versions or updates sounds like a > good idea (pushing an update for F7 and F8 just to enable teh menu item > sounds like overkill though). > > On a related note: OpenOffice(.org) has become a well-known name. I > understand the sentiment of having functional names like "Word > Processor" in the menu, but perhaps the tooltip displayed from the menu > couls at least mention that this is OpenOffice. A lot of other programs, > like Firefox, Evolution, Gnumeric etc have their name included > somewhere, either directly in the menu, or in the tooltip. > > David Jansen > Or better add a sub menu, and inside it put all OO apps Stephanos From nicu_fedora at nicubunu.ro Wed Feb 20 16:47:12 2008 From: nicu_fedora at nicubunu.ro (Nicu Buculei) Date: Wed, 20 Feb 2008 18:47:12 +0200 Subject: gdm version in Fedora 9 Message-ID: <47BC5990.3000703@nicubunu.ro> As I understand, the GNOME release team has decided to ship gdm version 2.20 in GNOME 2.22 due to a number of regression but the plan for Fedora is still to have gdm 2.22 in F9, is this correct? I ask this from the perspective of the Art Team, we approach a deadline (in about a week) when the desktop theme is supposed to be complete so is important for us to know *how* gdm will be themed. My understanding is that theming in the new gdm is much simpler (just a background image and the rest is done from Gtk+), could someone provide additional info? [1] - http://mail.gnome.org/archives/release-team/2008-February/msg00059.html -- nicu :: http://nicubunu.ro :: http://nicubunu.blogspot.com Cool Fedora wallpapers: http://fedora.nicubunu.ro/wallpapers/ Open Clip Art Library: http://www.openclipart.org my Fedora stuff: http://fedora.nicubunu.ro From mccann at jhu.edu Wed Feb 20 17:08:33 2008 From: mccann at jhu.edu (William Jon McCann) Date: Wed, 20 Feb 2008 12:08:33 -0500 Subject: gdm version in Fedora 9 In-Reply-To: <47BC5990.3000703@nicubunu.ro> References: <47BC5990.3000703@nicubunu.ro> Message-ID: <939dd5750802200908q71b36c79n57bc944135b0273b@mail.gmail.com> Hi, On Wed, Feb 20, 2008 at 11:47 AM, Nicu Buculei wrote: > As I understand, the GNOME release team has decided to ship gdm version > 2.20 in GNOME 2.22 due to a number of regression but the plan for Fedora > is still to have gdm 2.22 in F9, is this correct? Yes, that is the plan. Time was running short in the GNOME 2.22 schedule. However, we have a bit more time in the F9 schedule so we can solve the major regressions. > I ask this from the perspective of the Art Team, we approach a deadline > (in about a week) when the desktop theme is supposed to be complete so > is important for us to know *how* gdm will be themed. > My understanding is that theming in the new gdm is much simpler (just a > background image and the rest is done from Gtk+), could someone provide > additional info? Right. We run a gnome-settings-daemon in the greeter so that we pick up the system gconf defaults for background, icon theme, metacity theme, gtk theme, etc. So, whatever work you do to get the desktop themes tweaked will be inherited by the GDM greeter. One advantage of this is that the transition from greeter to a default session is pretty smooth. The background doesn't change, the icons/colors/etc don't change, and the gnome-panel slides into view. If for some reason we want to customize the greeter we can still do that. One way is to do something similar to what we did for the gnome-screensaver dialog. We can modify the glade file and provide a gtkrc. One extra bit of theming/branding that I added upstream (not in rawhide yet) is the ability to specify a logo icon name to use in place of the computer monitor image on the greeter login dialog. We could add the the Fedora logo there for example. What do you think? Thanks, Jon From nicu_fedora at nicubunu.ro Thu Feb 21 08:03:22 2008 From: nicu_fedora at nicubunu.ro (Nicu Buculei) Date: Thu, 21 Feb 2008 10:03:22 +0200 Subject: gdm version in Fedora 9 In-Reply-To: <939dd5750802200908q71b36c79n57bc944135b0273b@mail.gmail.com> References: <47BC5990.3000703@nicubunu.ro> <939dd5750802200908q71b36c79n57bc944135b0273b@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <47BD304A.80409@nicubunu.ro> William Jon McCann wrote: > Right. We run a gnome-settings-daemon in the greeter so that we pick > up the system gconf defaults for background, icon theme, metacity > theme, gtk theme, etc. So, whatever work you do to get the desktop > themes tweaked will be inherited by the GDM greeter. So if will work also with animated backgrounds? That is cool. > One advantage of this is that the transition from greeter to a default > session is pretty smooth. The background doesn't change, the > icons/colors/etc don't change, and the gnome-panel slides into view. Yes, I like very much this idea. > If for some reason we want to customize the greeter we can still do > that. One way is to do something similar to what we did for the > gnome-screensaver dialog. We can modify the glade file and provide a > gtkrc. As GDM is a moving target for the moment, I think it make sense to stay with the default in F9 (it will be enough a novelty anyway and Fedora the only distro with the feature) and we can evaluate in future releases is we want/need to further customize the greeter. > One extra bit of theming/branding that I added upstream (not in > rawhide yet) is the ability to specify a logo icon name to use in > place of the computer monitor image on the greeter login dialog. We > could add the the Fedora logo there for example. We were de-branding the desktop graphics all over the place in F8 (to support customization) so maybe we would want to stay with the default, at least for F9. > What do you think? Thank you, that was very informative. It seems we can just remove the gdm from the Art's ToDo for F9, this is fine, less work for us :p I will forward the info to the Art list. -- nicu :: http://nicubunu.ro :: http://nicubunu.blogspot.com Cool Fedora wallpapers: http://fedora.nicubunu.ro/wallpapers/ Open Clip Art Library: http://www.openclipart.org my Fedora stuff: http://fedora.nicubunu.ro From notting at redhat.com Thu Feb 21 16:29:37 2008 From: notting at redhat.com (Bill Nottingham) Date: Thu, 21 Feb 2008 11:29:37 -0500 Subject: gdm version in Fedora 9 In-Reply-To: <47BD304A.80409@nicubunu.ro> References: <47BC5990.3000703@nicubunu.ro> <939dd5750802200908q71b36c79n57bc944135b0273b@mail.gmail.com> <47BD304A.80409@nicubunu.ro> Message-ID: <20080221162937.GC6258@nostromo.devel.redhat.com> Nicu Buculei (nicu_fedora at nicubunu.ro) said: > We were de-branding the desktop graphics all over the place in F8 (to > support customization) so maybe we would want to stay with the default, at > least for F9. Well, as long as it references a 'generic' path (i.e., not something that says 'fedora-logo'), we can easily fudge whatever. Bill From bnocera at redhat.com Wed Feb 27 15:56:52 2008 From: bnocera at redhat.com (Bastien Nocera) Date: Wed, 27 Feb 2008 15:56:52 +0000 Subject: Bluetooth testing and some good gnome-love bugs Message-ID: <1204127812.2754.283.camel@cookie.hadess.net> Heya, gnome-user-share ---------------- gnome-bluetooth's days are numbered. I removed the gnome-obex-server from Fedora, and it will go the same upstream when a couple of bugs in gnome-user-share are fixed. Those bugs are good for gnome-lovers: - http://bugzilla.gnome.org/show_bug.cgi?id=519062 - http://bugzilla.gnome.org/show_bug.cgi?id=309232 - http://bugzilla.gnome.org/show_bug.cgi?id=519060 Mention in the bug if you're interested in helping out, I can provide more details on the implementation if interested. You'll need obex-data-server 0.3 and gnome-user-share from SVN to be able to use this. gvfs ObexFTP ------------ ObexFTP support has landed in gvfs. If you're using rawhide, or an unstable GNOME release, your nautilus is already using gvfs. We need testing done on it. You can access your Bluetooth device over ObexFTP using the URL "obex://[00:00:00:00:00:00:00]/", where 00:00:00:00:00:00:00 is your device's bluetooth address (or through the bluetooth applet's "Browse device..." menu item). You'll need obex-data-server 0.3 installed as well for this. File bugs about it at: http://bugzilla.gnome.org/enter_bug.cgi?product=gvfs There's also a good bug for gnome-lovers: http://bugzilla.gnome.org/show_bug.cgi?id=519072 Enjoy!