From vaeood at yahoo.com Wed Jul 1 05:58:03 2009 From: vaeood at yahoo.com (Hristo Petkov) Date: Tue, 30 Jun 2009 22:58:03 -0700 (PDT) Subject: Fedora Desktop Message-ID: <467264.75728.qm@web111605.mail.gq1.yahoo.com> Hi Guys, Talking about performance I found when looking through the file system that I have 4 pythons installed on my system (one with the system, 2.4 and 2.5) and one more, and I cannot remove anyone of them because they are bound to different applications. In my view if F12 is released with 'standard' python compiler and all the applications are recompiled on it the performance might be improved. The same is with the perl interpreter - I have two perls and it is very exciting, but it may not be very healthy from the point of view of system performance. Anyway, the system (F10 with some upgrades to F11) is performing pretty well and maybe it is able of better performance in case the problem with the compilers is unified somehow. Best regards, Hristo Petkov -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From bnocera at redhat.com Wed Jul 1 08:32:58 2009 From: bnocera at redhat.com (Bastien Nocera) Date: Wed, 01 Jul 2009 09:32:58 +0100 Subject: Fedora Desktop In-Reply-To: <467264.75728.qm@web111605.mail.gq1.yahoo.com> References: <467264.75728.qm@web111605.mail.gq1.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <1246437178.2856.5116.camel@localhost.localdomain> On Tue, 2009-06-30 at 22:58 -0700, Hristo Petkov wrote: > Hi Guys, > > Talking about performance I found when looking through the file system > that I have 4 pythons installed on my system (one with the system, 2.4 > and 2.5) and one more, and I cannot remove anyone of them because they > are bound to different applications. > In my view if F12 is released with 'standard' python compiler and all > the applications are recompiled on it the performance might be > improved. > > The same is with the perl interpreter - I have two perls and it is > very exciting, but it may not be very healthy from the point of view > of system performance. > > Anyway, the system (F10 with some upgrades to F11) is performing > pretty well and maybe it is able of better performance in case the > problem with the compilers is unified somehow. You didn't upgrade properly then, Fedora only ships with one of each for the Python and Perl compilers. From mclasen at redhat.com Thu Jul 2 02:12:19 2009 From: mclasen at redhat.com (Matthias Clasen) Date: Wed, 01 Jul 2009 22:12:19 -0400 Subject: desktop spin growth issues Message-ID: <1246500739.3517.7.camel@localhost.localdomain> So, in preparation for next weeks test day, we've looked at the state of the desktop spin in rawhide. After some complications, Adam managed to produce an iso, which actually boots into runlevel 3. X seems busted. But a console is good enough to do some basic investigation, so I've looked at size issues with this snapshot: The good news first: We've managed to get rid of the gnome-print stack on the live cd. The bad news is that we are still considerably overweight. Here is what I found when I compared the snapshot with the F11 desktop spin: iso size: 691MB -> 716MB packages: 989 -> 1027 The kernel grew 69MB -> 81MB - is this all debugging stuff ? Some big new pkgs: webkitgtk 18MB - pulled in by empathy libicu 19MB - pulled in by webkitgtk atlas 12MB - pulled in by pygtk2 via numpy boost 12MB - pulled in by gnote; all of boost gets pulled in here, even though gnote only requires boost-filesystem: bug #496188 So, we'll have to do some dieting to regain iso shape... Matthias From mclasen at redhat.com Thu Jul 2 02:16:02 2009 From: mclasen at redhat.com (Matthias Clasen) Date: Wed, 01 Jul 2009 22:16:02 -0400 Subject: desktop spin growth issues In-Reply-To: <1246500739.3517.7.camel@localhost.localdomain> References: <1246500739.3517.7.camel@localhost.localdomain> Message-ID: <1246500962.3517.9.camel@localhost.localdomain> And...I managed to forget the attachments... -------------- next part -------------- 0 basesystem 0 control-center-filesystem 0 filesystem 0 fontpackages-filesystem 0 khmeros-fonts-common 0 mozilla-filesystem 0 nodoka-filesystem 0 plymouth-system-theme 0 printer-filters 0 telepathy-filesystem 0 xorg-x11-drivers 171 plymouth-gdm-hooks 599 rootfiles 661 xorg-x11-filesystem 1055 xml-common 1167 fprintd-pam 2486 crontabs 3608 m17n-contrib-urdu 3778 plymouth-theme-charge 4151 rt73usb-firmwar 4188 fedora-bookmarks 4701 gnome-session-xsession 5127 python-slip-gtk 6079 m17n-db-assamese 6082 m17n-db-oriya 6298 m17n-db-punjabi 6593 m17n-db-telugu 6692 m17n-db-gujarati 6776 libproxy-bin 6826 m17n-db-bengali 6929 fipscheck-lib 7452 plymouth-scripts 7504 libopenraw-gnome 7521 m17n-db-malayalam 7749 m17n-db-kannada 7823 evolution-perl 8111 m17n-contrib-oriya 8873 libproxy-python 8920 lx 9032 plymouth-plugin-label 9138 m17n-contrib-kannada 9204 m17n-contrib-bengali 9392 apr-util-ldap 9502 htmlview 9859 m17n-contrib-gujarati 10580 rdate 11040 avahi-glib 11366 libXdamage 11378 xorg-x11-drv-void 11528 libcom_err 11592 libbdevid-python 11671 thai-scalable-fonts-common 12213 radeontool 12589 m17n-contrib-assamese 12784 GConf2-gtk 12908 m17n-db-hindi 12941 symlinks 12943 fedora-setup-keyboard 13184 openssh-askpass 13295 m17n-contrib-punjabi 14213 libXxf86misc 14237 m17n-contrib-marathi 14548 smc-fonts-common 14595 m17n-contrib-hindi 15176 libproxy-mozjs 15329 abiword 15768 libuuid 15784 plymouth-utils 15910 rmt 15937 c2070 16879 libXinerama 17050 perl-String-CRC32 17072 xorg-x11-drv-dummy 17230 xorg-x11-drv-fpit 17309 unix2dos 17347 smolt-firstboot 17479 libdmx 17492 libXres 17688 libattr 17729 xorg-x11-drv-v4l 17944 pulseaudio-libs-glib2 18057 xorg-x11-drv-penmount 18304 fedora-screensaver-theme 18335 fedora-gnome-theme 18578 m17n-contrib-sinhala 18809 dos2unix 19208 libXcomposite 19521 cjkuni-fonts-common 19632 xorg-x11-drv-hyperpen 19928 m17n-db-sinhala 20098 m17n-db-tamil 20193 xorg-x11-drv-mutouch 20212 xorg-x11-drv-acecad 20656 xorg-x11-drv-elographics 21119 perl-Pod-Escapes 21280 plymouth-plugin-two-step 21384 pygtk2-libglade 21564 lohit-punjabi-fonts 21760 ConsoleKit-libs 21843 anaconda-yum-plugins 21870 tmpwatch 21997 leonidas-backgrounds 22049 gnome-python2-applet 22057 cracklib-python 22155 hesiod 22616 pulseaudio-module-gconf 22693 xorg-x11-drv-fbdev 23720 gpm-libs 23913 pakchois 23919 libXScrnSaver 23952 ibus-gtk 24016 boost-system 24052 gnome-python2-gtkhtml2 24088 lockdev 24424 libss 24810 libXfixes 25756 irqbalance 25920 b43-fwcutter 26180 xorg-x11-drv-vesa 26320 ntsysv 26679 rt61pci-firmware 26691 fipscheck 26948 libXxf86dga 26978 finger 27295 rng-utils 27471 lohit-fonts-common 27890 m17n-contrib-telugu 27907 mcelog 28160 bluez-cups 28312 talk 28742 libXxf86vm 28859 dbus-x11 28890 libogg 28908 perl-Module-Pluggable 29371 m17n-db-thai 29938 xorg-x11-drv-vmmouse 30009 c2050 30176 gvfs-fuse 30193 xorg-x11-drv-aiptek 30352 libacl 30422 crda 30654 xorg-x11-drv-voodoo 31075 setserial 31099 xorg-x11-drv-keyboard 31394 pbm2l2030 31669 notify-python 31726 mailcap 32060 libXau 32976 libgudev1 33744 cyrus-sasl-plain 33776 keyutils-libs 33845 libXv 34065 libXdmcp 34542 libaio 34578 mingetty 34800 ibus-rawcode 34865 libXtst 35397 nodoka-metacity-theme 35566 portreserve 35709 perl-version 35936 nautilus-extensions 36345 python-slip 37072 linux-atm-libs 37309 brasero-nautilus 37368 libtalloc 38043 kpartx 38149 m17n-contrib 38296 gnome-keyring-pam 38575 time 38580 paps-libs 38674 libspiro 38939 libfontenc 39730 xorg-x11-server-common 40130 libXvMC 40273 avahi-autoipd 40785 libutempter 40829 pam_ccreds 41125 libgssglue 41647 python-slip-dbus 42881 libffi 42895 hicolor-icon-theme 43745 libnfnetlink 43984 ConsoleKit-x11 44092 liberation-fonts-common 44196 xorg-x11-drv-evdev 44655 libSM 44816 PolicyKit-gnome-libs 45920 avahi-gobject 45968 gnome-python2-gnomekeyring 46768 gnome-disk-utility-ui-libs 46878 glx-utils 47104 pciutils-libs 47385 m17n-contrib-tamil 47714 gdbm 47836 libcanberra-gtk2 47878 isomd5sum 48350 libXcursor 48943 libdiscid 50235 gsm 50321 xorg-x11-drv-vmware 50364 xorg-x11-drv-ast 50767 ptouch-driver 50785 mod_dnssd 51227 xorg-x11-drv-i740 51261 pulseaudio-module-x11 51482 ibus-m17n 52252 libasyncns 53398 libgail-gnome 53494 libpciaccess 53721 python-cryptsetup 53758 libXrender 53888 libtdb 54172 fedora-release 54255 pam_passwdqc 54366 file 54480 libusb 54493 gupnp-igd 55026 paps 55108 libXrandr 55229 xorg-x11-drv-mouse 56346 vbetool 57846 libdaemon 59332 anacron 59693 libXi 60312 gnome-panel-libs 60400 yum-metadata-parser 60586 python-sexy 61361 libselinux-utils 62478 libcap 62755 xorg-x11-xauth 63757 kerneloops 63952 cpuspeed 64094 notification-daemon-engine-nodoka 64276 libtool-ltdl 64356 min12xxw 64560 m17n-contrib-malayalam 65080 lohit-tamil-fonts 65107 tree 65337 zd1211-firmware 65341 comps-extras 65766 fbset 66475 iw 66730 libuser-python 67316 cjet 67624 bzip2-libs 67846 xorg-x11-drv-i128 67979 bcm43xx-fwcutter 68208 cyrus-sasl-md5 68514 gupnp-av 69024 gstreamer-tools 69195 ibus-hangul 70235 libudev 71120 gnome-python2-libwnck 71900 makebootfat 71904 pam_smb 71958 efibootmgr 72173 xorg-x11-xinit 72386 nss-mdns 73052 gtkspell 73133 which 74116 rsh 74333 cups-pk-helper 74420 ypbind 74807 gnome-python2-canvas 75429 libieee1284 75623 ntpdate 76343 xorg-x11-drv-tdfx 76510 libgnomemm26 76812 gdm-plugin-fingerprint 76903 libnotify 77100 iptstate 77951 bzip2 77994 grubby 78952 lohit-hindi-fonts 78964 lohit-maithili-fonts 79225 libiec61883 79560 lohit-gujarati-fonts 80256 elfutils-libelf 80789 traceroute 81822 cdparanoia 81932 giflib 82772 logrotate 82820 libspectre 83405 mkinitrd 83420 popt 84437 xorg-x11-drv-sisusb 84440 boost-iostreams 84520 libblkid 84858 openobex 85007 libXext 85305 xorg-x11-drv-s3virge 85390 libtelepathy 86798 pbm2l7k 86824 libao 87020 libproxy 87365 pcmciautils 87547 aiksaurus-gtk 88086 startup-notification 89375 m17n-db 89869 jline 90084 libatasmart 91294 telepathy-farsight 91928 xorg-x11-drv-cirrus 92751 libshout 93077 lzma-libs 93345 at 95019 libgomp 95304 lohit-oriya-fonts 95953 readahead 96444 rpcbind 96954 alsa-plugins-pulseaudio 96957 ftp 97092 pygpgme 97805 mtr 97877 libXft 98539 libbeagle 98664 device-mapper-libs 99625 joystick 100115 xdg-user-dirs-gtk 101031 xorg-x11-drv-synaptics 101768 gnome-bluetooth-libs 101899 xdg-user-dirs 101984 libsexy 102047 libpanelappletmm 102297 fprintd 102471 plymouth 103896 pinentry-gtk 104031 fedorainfinity-screensaver-theme 104104 gdm-user-switch-applet 104173 hal-cups-utils 104844 libavc1394 105058 notification-daemon 106549 pygtksourceview 107976 hal-libs 108686 obexd 110184 libwmf-lite 110288 telnet 111085 device-mapper 111103 cracklib 111320 gssdp 111431 nc 111633 DeviceKit 111732 rtkit 111805 libXpm 112009 sysvinit-tools 112041 libICE 112075 gtk-nodoka-engine 113015 xorg-x11-drv-rendition 113235 usbutils 113934 psacct 114201 dejavu-fonts-common 114263 rpm-python 114958 enchant 116387 fedora-icon-theme 118080 libsane-hpaio 119353 libdrm 119576 libraw1394 120518 mozplugger 121014 libnetfilter_conntrack 122559 xorg-x11-drv-r128 122570 libpst 122912 openjpeg-libs 125076 pyorbit 125303 cryptsetup-luks 125595 libusb1 125984 libselinux 127027 tcp_wrappers-libs 127498 cyrus-sasl 127512 ibus-chewing 127545 gconfmm26 127943 hdparm 128187 libart_lgpl 129416 libXmu 129601 libertas-usb8388-firmware 130857 xorg-x11-drv-siliconmotion 131246 libiptcdata 133762 gnome-python2-libegg 134224 cdparanoia-libs 134386 telepathy-haze 134487 gvfs-archive 134979 libxklavier 135080 libgcc 135240 unique 135667 sgml-common 135968 xorg-x11-drv-apm 136597 libx86 137065 eject 137546 gnome-speech 137787 pkgconfig 137914 gnome-python2-gconf 139256 lohit-bengali-fonts 139341 irda-utils 139674 libsigc++20 139804 httpd-tools 142984 plymouth-libs 143528 desktop-file-utils 144421 pinentry 144552 boost-date-time 146082 cronie 148303 tcp_wrappers 148334 libglade2 149697 zlib 149710 libxkbfile 149720 newt-python 151664 sg3_utils-libs 151712 nfs-utils-lib 152117 python-iniparse 152266 gvfs-obexftp 154738 aalib-libs 156224 boost-signals 156862 pciutils 157280 device-mapper-multipath 157847 gnome-python2 158536 boost-filesystem 158740 lohit-telugu-fonts 159785 attr 160871 audit-libs 161410 xorg-x11-drv-savage 163031 setuptool 163158 cairomm 163806 lzo 165256 libpst-libs 165804 system-config-boot 166124 newt 166341 PackageKit-yum-plugin 166888 pyxf86config 167679 libconfig 168392 libtirpc 168667 jpackage-utils 169095 ed 170987 fuse-libs 171102 ots-libs 173375 nscd 174628 pulseaudio-utils 174664 gupnp 175500 PackageKit-gtk-module 175519 libcanberra 176252 PackageKit-gstreamer-plugin 177171 xorg-x11-drv-trident 177280 bluez-libs 178673 libdv 178812 xdg-utils 179010 fribidi 179635 dmidecode 179974 xorg-x11-drv-mga 181552 libedit 182050 vconfig 183500 speex 183599 dosfstools 184780 acl 185184 totem-nautilus 187854 krb5-auth-dialog 192440 lohit-kannada-fonts 192519 system-config-rootpassword 192679 psmisc 193302 kasumi 194694 libsemanage 195592 rdist 195661 esound-libs 197418 apr-util 197858 expat 198480 loudmouth 200156 less 200366 squashfs-tools 201424 poppler-glib 201567 vpnc 201928 poppler-utils 204528 dmraid-libs 206771 gnome-python2-extras 207322 usermode-gtk 207439 gamin-python 209113 bc 209183 xorg-x11-drv-nv 209575 lzma 209855 system-config-keyboard 210053 authconfig-gtk 210385 geoclue 210967 libgpg-error 210979 wireless-tools 211539 yp-tools 212191 libIDL 213680 pulseaudio-module-bluetooth 214632 e2fsprogs-libs 215494 pangomm 215595 libmusicbrainz 216800 ncurses-base 218721 yum-utils 221671 libv4l 222056 gvfs-gphoto2 222419 lcms-libs 222920 java-1.6.0-openjdk-plugin 225072 libevent 225860 gzip 226103 obex-data-server 227266 MAKEDEV 227787 fuse 228229 psutils 228902 ethtool 229892 DeviceKit-power 234592 wvdial 237752 libsepol 237934 mlocate 239231 rp-pppoe 239352 libburn 242405 xorg-x11-drv-mach64 243989 createrepo 244694 libarchive 244775 gstreamer-plugins-flumpegdemux 250871 im-chooser 251560 libisofs 252850 libfprint 253265 xorg-x11-utils 253504 ibus-libs 255201 rarian-compat 256820 iok 257882 ConsoleKit 259526 stunnel 259752 pm-utils 259888 nspr 261528 dbus-libs 261931 pth 262435 audiofile 263489 at-spi-python 266230 memtest86+ 266798 wavpack 266968 libwpg 267191 libssh2 269668 meanwhile 272470 python-pyblock 272863 ustr 273273 libXfont 273700 neon 273944 libpcap 275016 libksba 277486 tzdata-java 281125 setroubleshoot 281387 curl 281948 xorg-x11-font-utils 288468 zip 289099 dmraid 289891 gvfs-smb 291668 iputils 294313 dump 295425 libjpeg 295607 apr 297516 gnome-python2-desktop 297673 libnice 299179 jwhois 299430 dnsmasq 299744 xorg-x11-drv-glint 300360 mathml-fonts 301754 audit-libs-python 301840 nash 302946 imsettings-libs 304414 hal-info 310437 pam_krb5 311006 libsemanage-python 311348 dhcpv6-client 314117 padauk-fonts 316016 libcroco 316927 mtools 319517 libgsf 320821 eggdbus 321161 passwd 321776 libcurl 324604 python-bugzilla 325034 info 326440 NetworkManager-vpnc 327371 iptables-ipv6 333507 lklug-fonts 333808 dvd+rw-tools 335192 procmail 335760 hplip-libs 336197 gnome-python2-gnomevfs 337506 jasper-libs 342324 thai-scalable-waree-fonts 342852 rarian 347883 smc-meera-fonts 349676 gnome-disk-utility 350381 preupgrade 351465 libgtop2 351956 babl 352103 cyrus-sasl-lib 353630 libnl 358384 system-config-language 359610 gnome-python2-gnome 361826 libopenraw 361932 xorg-x11-drv-nouveau 363056 m17n-lib 365428 librsvg2 365568 pixman 368386 xorg-x11-server-utils 370072 device-mapper-multipath-libs 370590 nss-softokn-freebl 371279 gnome-python2-bonobo 371875 sed 373124 PackageKit-glib 375392 mpfr 378234 man 378594 ntfs-3g 382405 iwl4965-firmware 382880 NetworkManager-glib 384949 ibus-anthy 386131 ncurses 389832 mesa-libGLU 389849 gamin 390947 unzip 398134 readline 400076 icedax 405285 xorg-x11-xkb-utils 407727 libgxim 407840 PackageKit-yum 409009 lm_sensors 409030 db4-utils 409896 libvisual 410773 libsoup 414488 pyxdg 416080 PolicyKit 421157 libmusicbrainz3 422439 alacarte 423801 pycairo 426365 libXt 430905 bind-utils 433652 farsight2 433781 lrzsz 434581 libtheora 435509 libXaw 436412 hunspell 436466 perl-Pod-Simple 440250 ilmbase 442385 libwmf 446834 polkit 450183 procps 450847 NetworkManager-openvpn 451006 nspluginwrapper 452311 libfreebob 454632 liberation-mono-fonts 457396 iwl3945-firmware 458468 mailx 459168 evince-libs 459615 fontconfig 475519 SDL 476321 libgcrypt 476670 PolicyKit-gnome 476694 dbus 480258 xorg-x11-drv-openchrome 480377 jack-audio-connection-kit 481272 mesa-libGL 482656 libxcb 484846 python-urlgrabber 484924 t1lib 488335 taglib 495079 DeviceKit-disks 495188 libgnomekbd 501634 imsettings 509047 libtasn1 521845 nautilus-sendto 530135 pcre 539372 libmng 542009 libidn 546128 gd 546327 system-config-firewall 551736 liberation-sans-fonts 556117 m4 559536 gtkhtml2 559737 telepathy-mission-control 570232 liberation-serif-fonts 572940 diffutils 573029 openssh-server 573387 libmtp 574578 dbus-glib 576425 ipw2200-firmware 577616 totem-mozplugin 584576 boost-program-options 588954 ORBit2 593315 xorg-x11-drv-sis 593900 perl-Date-Manip 594169 gnome-mount 594273 liboil 596196 dirmngr 601398 aiksaurus 609658 dhclient 614450 linuxwacom 614592 upstart 614947 libical 616036 libcdio 618666 ipw2100-firmware 619031 lua 624281 telepathy-salut 626114 sqlite 628272 boost-python 631803 libpng 632378 wpa_supplicant 649794 abyssinica-fonts 649992 deltarpm 650770 cpio 651889 nfs-utils 654443 openssh 654865 chkconfig 657119 setup 659166 libselinux-python 667232 cups-libs 667387 gmp 677315 krb5-workstation 689683 pyparted 692822 rsync 693906 pygobject2 694712 libthai 696532 wv 699007 openldap 705300 iwl5000-firmware 705521 libexif 711888 empathy-libs 717120 gnome-mag 717206 sos 721470 flac 722017 policycoreutils-python 722198 gnome-menus 723625 policycoreutils-gui 726930 libgpod 728154 atmel-firmware 729658 gpgme 731264 khmeros-base-fonts 737712 ca-certificates 740037 libsndfile 741891 libwpd 742064 ncurses-libs 749858 vim-minimal 752448 tcpdump 775068 stix-fonts 777504 openvpn 777776 usermode 781726 ppp 796521 firstboot 797720 rpm-libs 799334 system-config-services 804668 net-tools 805225 libtiff 809684 smartmontools 816272 redhat-menus 817026 freetype 826257 rhino 833998 gnome-user-share 834240 minicom 834912 quota 836137 checkpolicy 837231 xorg-x11-drv-ati 842504 brasero-libs 842858 iproute 843393 pam_pkcs11 844060 OpenEXR-libs 860360 boost-test 864642 lvm2 868179 setools-console 886070 pnm2ppa 887497 at-spi 901753 atk 902816 sound-theme-freedesktop 903182 lsof 907560 gtk2-engines 914182 avahi 917786 iptables 920341 libgnomecanvas 926816 boost-graph 927785 telepathy-gabble 932352 dbus-python 932730 grep 934218 audit 955876 totem-pl-parser 966835 paktype-fonts 970593 udev 972448 libgfortran 981552 sudo 996288 exempi 1016223 openssh-clients 1019480 libstdc++ 1021622 rhpl 1035568 bluez 1039519 pango 1042314 rsyslog 1043322 module-init-tools 1056743 gnome-media 1059701 libsilc 1059867 gnutls 1067092 xorg-x11-drv-intel 1070530 setroubleshoot-server 1075827 dejavu-sans-mono-fonts 1079569 make 1080133 telepathy-glib 1081665 glibmm24 1086789 ntfsprogs 1097781 smolt 1100662 festival-lib 1124450 setools-libs 1125942 gnome-bluetooth 1135480 sox 1153127 cdrdao 1162286 alsa-lib 1195608 NetworkManager-gnome 1196274 ntp 1220629 python-nose 1230566 libbonoboui 1243767 gnome-doc-utils-stylesheets 1250015 wodim 1251791 microcode_ctl 1263174 gstreamer-python 1273830 findutils 1287728 python-setuptools 1298477 shared-mime-info 1307255 logwatch 1312508 link-grammar 1328179 pykickstart 1418985 hal 1433537 ibus 1452942 cairo 1472733 leonidas-backgrounds-common 1507222 nano 1507709 ghostscript-fonts 1522343 db4 1523478 busybox-anaconda 1525390 genisoimage 1550817 vte 1592176 sendmail 1636906 bug-buddy 1640031 libsamplerate 1653080 hunspell-en 1659028 mdadm 1666088 slang 1670515 parted 1677643 iscsi-initiator-utils 1686439 PackageKit 1689278 krb5-libs 1706088 perl-libs 1714534 libwnck 1718981 alsa-utils 1725136 boost-serialization 1730416 boost-regex 1753082 gnome-session 1755222 libxml2 1758803 kacst-fonts 1778864 system-config-users 1787342 python-libs 1815335 libuser 1825316 kernel-firmware 1836106 prelink 1849229 gnome-disk-utility-libs 1858518 tzdata 1865928 gimp-libs 1866126 nss_ldap 1877519 e2fsprogs 1921173 libbonobo 2019183 authconfig 2022111 compiz-fusion-gnome 2024435 rpm 2032643 gawk 2042420 enscript 2048530 system-config-printer 2054382 pulseaudio-libs 2098389 poppler 2101766 fedora-logos 2122424 system-config-firewall-tui 2130966 pulseaudio 2148832 bind-libs 2154462 libxslt 2154877 libvorbis 2161322 netpbm 2171647 gnome-pilot 2185430 mousetweaks 2186343 gnome-settings-daemon 2192450 system-config-network 2200244 grub 2215438 libwvstreams 2230101 xkeyboard-config 2248500 pam 2257839 festvox-slt-arctic-hts 2267309 compiz-gnome 2293163 jomolhari-fonts 2317168 boost-wave 2353430 gstreamer 2360448 syslinux 2367990 pilot-link 2401259 dejavu-serif-fonts 2407965 file-libs 2424597 libxml2-python 2433939 kbd 2442861 selinux-policy-targeted 2462995 lftp 2507694 tar 2594533 gegl 2607440 boost-math 2642830 bash 2739777 shadow-utils 2788223 gtksourceview2 2822558 desktop-backgrounds-basic 2865150 python-paste 2868254 gtkmathview 2931120 system-config-date 2948997 nss 2981565 httpd 2987516 gstreamer-plugins-base 3001050 xfsprogs 3067650 gnome-desktop 3076011 system-config-lvm 3152503 yum 3165750 libgnome 3181040 bluecurve-cursor-theme 3234313 libX11 3280136 policycoreutils 3282202 gnome-screensaver 3313822 sound-juicer 3359798 hwdata 3382398 NetworkManager 3462452 openssl 3494653 gnome-vfs2 3500218 festival-speechtools-libs 3557515 yelp 3599142 libgnomeui 3616608 evince 3636642 zenity 3640541 transmission 3654279 ipa-pgothic-fonts 3670680 gst-mixer 3689620 gnome-mime-data 3743408 xorg-x11-server-Xorg 3777857 gtkhtml3 3831315 system-config-printer-libs 3834853 sane-backends 3860609 gstreamer-plugins-good 4014376 cheese 4022421 gnome-system-monitor 4056093 gvfs 4083616 gdm 4109614 setroubleshoot-plugins 4170207 empathy 4207256 gnote 4269720 libgphoto2 4297560 pygtk2 4377396 compiz 4389400 urw-fonts 4392138 leonidas-backgrounds-lion-dual 4481871 gnome-themes 4485037 gnome-media-libs 4503335 gnome-keyring 4550918 netpbm-progs 4571574 docbook-dtds 4633631 dejavu-sans-fonts 4634441 net-snmp-libs 4655075 file-roller 4921531 eog 4921867 gnupg 4965663 glib2 5010552 libsmbclient 5028051 libchewing 5032110 gdb 5235785 system-config-network-tui 5350532 util-linux-ng 5442270 groff 5452891 gtkmm24 5461832 mesa-dri-drivers 6003975 GConf2 6129136 compiz-fusion 6381061 gucharmap 6381172 selinux-policy 6476732 seahorse 6586460 libhangul 6733578 ImageMagick 6749797 gnupg2 6931497 gcalctool 6943892 gnome-terminal 7049492 bitmap-fonts 7075413 initscripts 7678648 sane-backends-libs 7748202 iso-codes 7762730 numpy 7925885 gthumb 7946460 gimp-data-extras 7973285 gnome-power-manager 7989518 totem 8238061 control-center 8464741 gnome-packagekit 8511301 orca 8995740 cracklib-dicts 9157645 metacity 9207569 gok 9219338 festival 9888838 cpp 9914970 samba-winbind 9970337 gnome-backgrounds 10122124 brasero 10165192 gnome-panel 10810016 cups 11076153 rhythmbox 11610033 gnome-icon-theme 12033176 boost 12193605 gnome-utils 12314339 evolution-data-server 12437464 atlas 12625976 gtk2 12626599 coreutils 12842974 glibc 13924177 gutenprint 14042611 gedit 15017480 gnome-applets 15868896 nautilus 17098719 firefox 18516382 webkitgtk 18572729 anaconda 19712224 libicu 21494215 ghostscript 21547659 cjkuni-uming-fonts 22841487 libpurple 23245458 fedora-release-notes 23660869 libabiword 24219051 python 24741436 anthy 26394044 xulrunner 34078496 foomatic 35125399 perl 38021028 ibus-pinyin 38430434 samba-common 38513400 evolution 44996860 gimp 79812287 libgweather 81992206 kernel 83750169 java-1.6.0-openjdk 85322393 gutenprint-foomatic 97610918 glibc-common -------------- next part -------------- +atlas +avahi-gobject +boost +boost-date-time +boost-filesystem +boost-graph +boost-iostreams +boost-math +boost-program-options +boost-python +boost-regex +boost-serialization +boost-signals +boost-system +boost-test +boost-wave +device-mapper-multipath-libs +eggdbus +empathy +evince-libs +fipscheck-lib +gconfmm26 +geoclue +gnote -goffice04 -gpg-pubkey -gstreamer-plugins-farsight +ipa-pgothic-fonts +jack-audio-connection-kit +jline +kasumi +libblkid +libcom_err +libfreebob +libgfortran -libgnomecups -libgnomeprint22 -libgnomeprintui22 +libgnomemm26 -libgsf-gnome +libgudev1 +libicu -libjingle +libpanelappletmm +libss -libudev0 +libudev +libuuid -libvolume_id +libwpg +mozplugger +numpy +openjpeg-libs -pidgin +pinentry-gtk +polkit -python-numeric +python-nose +python-setuptools +rtkit +seahorse +sox +telepathy-filesystem +telepathy-gabble +telepathy-haze +telepathy-salut -totem-gstreamer -udev-extras -un-core-fonts-dotum -vlgothic-fonts -vlgothic-fonts-common +webkitgtk From sundaram at fedoraproject.org Thu Jul 2 05:05:30 2009 From: sundaram at fedoraproject.org (Rahul Sundaram) Date: Thu, 02 Jul 2009 10:35:30 +0530 Subject: desktop spin growth issues In-Reply-To: <1246500739.3517.7.camel@localhost.localdomain> References: <1246500739.3517.7.camel@localhost.localdomain> Message-ID: <4A4C401A.7070007@fedoraproject.org> On 07/02/2009 07:42 AM, Matthias Clasen wrote: > webkitgtk 18MB - pulled in by empathy > libicu 19MB - pulled in by webkitgtk > atlas 12MB - pulled in by pygtk2 via numpy > boost 12MB - pulled in by gnote; all of boost gets pulled in here, > even though gnote only requires boost-filesystem: bug #496188 > > So, we'll have to do some dieting to regain iso shape... Yes, the boost split was done on my request specifically because I wanted to make sure Gnote can be accommodated comfortably. Upstream has done a new release of Gnote today and I will fix this dependency as part of the rebuild. Rahul From mclasen at redhat.com Thu Jul 2 05:27:54 2009 From: mclasen at redhat.com (Matthias Clasen) Date: Thu, 02 Jul 2009 01:27:54 -0400 Subject: desktop spin growth issues In-Reply-To: <4A4C401A.7070007@fedoraproject.org> References: <1246500739.3517.7.camel@localhost.localdomain> <4A4C401A.7070007@fedoraproject.org> Message-ID: <1246512474.15317.0.camel@localhost.localdomain> On Thu, 2009-07-02 at 10:35 +0530, Rahul Sundaram wrote: > > Yes, the boost split was done on my request specifically because I > wanted to make sure Gnote can be accommodated comfortably. Upstream has > done a new release of Gnote today and I will fix this dependency as part > of the rebuild. The problem is that the boost split was not done properly. I've commented in the bug. From martin.sourada at gmail.com Thu Jul 2 07:27:31 2009 From: martin.sourada at gmail.com (Martin Sourada) Date: Thu, 02 Jul 2009 09:27:31 +0200 Subject: desktop spin growth issues In-Reply-To: <1246500739.3517.7.camel@localhost.localdomain> References: <1246500739.3517.7.camel@localhost.localdomain> Message-ID: <1246519651.2334.5.camel@pc-notebook.kolej.mff.cuni.cz> On Wed, 2009-07-01 at 22:12 -0400, Matthias Clasen wrote: > webkitgtk 18MB - pulled in by empathy I think it's rather unfortunate to pull in two web-rendering engines (webkitgtk and gecko), both rather big... What are the deps to xulrunner resp. webkitgtk in the Desktop Live? Should we target for the Desktop Live only one of these? Martin -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: signature.asc Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 197 bytes Desc: This is a digitally signed message part URL: From stickster at gmail.com Thu Jul 2 12:26:08 2009 From: stickster at gmail.com (Paul W. Frields) Date: Thu, 2 Jul 2009 08:26:08 -0400 Subject: Raising the bar In-Reply-To: <4A49DEAF.8010403@redhat.com> References: <1246303647.1527.132.camel@localhost.localdomain> <4A49DEAF.8010403@redhat.com> Message-ID: <20090702122608.GE9871@localhost.localdomain> On Tue, Jun 30, 2009 at 10:45:19AM +0100, Andrew Haley wrote: > Matthias Clasen wrote: > > > we'd like to announce the 'Fit and Finish' initiative for Fedora, > > > > http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Fit_and_Finish > > > > with the goal to improve the user experience of the Fedora desktop. We > > want to identify the small (and sometimes large) roadblocks that make > > everyday computer use harder than it needs to be, and try to fix them. > > In Ubuntu there's a "Help" button on the top menu bar that leads to a > nice help application, yelp. We have that app too, but it doesn't > seem to have the same contents, which are: > > New to Ubuntu? > Adding and Removing Software > Files, Folders and Documents > Customising Your Desktop > Internet > Music, Videos and Photos > Assistive Tools > Keeping Your Computer Safe > Printing, Faxing and Scanning > Advanced Topics > > And under each section there's a clear explanation of what to do. > Maybe we have something equivalent for Fedora, but I can't find it. Perhaps this is something you could raise separately with the Fedora Docs team. I'm just getting back from some travel during which I caught wind of some new documentation standards being produced by the GNOME docs community to make documentation more task-based, with which I agree whole-heartedly. Also, our own Docs team is working on providing an easy way for people to retrieve and install language-specific documentation such as a user guide which would integrate into the desktop menu system. (I'm pretty sure that integration is desktop environment-neutral.) The confluence of those two developments might provide some better docs at the desktop level. -- Paul W. Frields http://paul.frields.org/ gpg fingerprint: 3DA6 A0AC 6D58 FEC4 0233 5906 ACDB C937 BD11 3717 http://redhat.com/ - - - - http://pfrields.fedorapeople.org/ irc.freenode.net: stickster @ #fedora-docs, #fedora-devel, #fredlug From notting at redhat.com Thu Jul 2 15:24:47 2009 From: notting at redhat.com (Bill Nottingham) Date: Thu, 2 Jul 2009 11:24:47 -0400 Subject: desktop spin growth issues In-Reply-To: <1246519651.2334.5.camel@pc-notebook.kolej.mff.cuni.cz> References: <1246500739.3517.7.camel@localhost.localdomain> <1246519651.2334.5.camel@pc-notebook.kolej.mff.cuni.cz> Message-ID: <20090702152447.GA26481@nostromo.devel.redhat.com> Martin Sourada (martin.sourada at gmail.com) said: > > webkitgtk 18MB - pulled in by empathy > > I think it's rather unfortunate to pull in two web-rendering engines > (webkitgtk and gecko), both rather big... What are the deps to xulrunner > resp. webkitgtk in the Desktop Live? Should we target for the Desktop > Live only one of these? Well, in general upstreams seem to be pushing towards WebKit for embedding engines. However, I doubt you'll be able to convince firefox to port. :) And we've been over the epiphany/firefox discussion in the past, and elected to stay with firefox. Bill From mclasen at redhat.com Thu Jul 2 17:34:18 2009 From: mclasen at redhat.com (Matthias Clasen) Date: Thu, 02 Jul 2009 13:34:18 -0400 Subject: Raising the bar In-Reply-To: <1246384554.2087.85.camel@diet-anarchy.localdomain> References: <1246303647.1527.132.camel@localhost.localdomain> <1246384554.2087.85.camel@diet-anarchy.localdomain> Message-ID: <1246556058.2431.7.camel@localhost.localdomain> On Tue, 2009-06-30 at 13:55 -0400, Christopher Beland wrote: > On Mon, 2009-06-29 at 15:27 -0400, Matthias Clasen wrote: > > If you have ideas for > > other areas that could benefit from this kind of attention, please let > > us know. > > I can think of a number of different cross-component tests... [...] Yeah, this is a very nice checklist for 'basic sanity'. And any bug you file about a problem in one of those categories certainly qualifies as a 'fit and finish' issue. But as a test day topic, it might be a bit boring to spend the whole day testing e.g. copy-and-paste between app X and Y to fill a big matrix... Matthias From stickster at gmail.com Sun Jul 5 18:05:01 2009 From: stickster at gmail.com (Paul W. Frields) Date: Sun, 5 Jul 2009 14:05:01 -0400 Subject: Blog aggregation Message-ID: <20090705180501.GC4004@localhost.localdomain> Could I ask each of the Desktop developers on this list to please make sure their blogs are aggregated on the Fedora Planet feed? The instructions are located here, and take about 2 minutes to complete: https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Join_Fedora_Planet Thank you for helping to keep people abreast of the work going on in the Fedora community to expand and improve the free software desktop. Paul From mclasen at redhat.com Mon Jul 6 16:14:30 2009 From: mclasen at redhat.com (Matthias Clasen) Date: Mon, 06 Jul 2009 12:14:30 -0400 Subject: Fedora desktop spin size issues, update Message-ID: <1246896870.1690.11.camel@planemask> After a week of dieting, things are looking a bit better... iso size: 691MB -> 708MB packages: 989 -> 1011 Compared to last week, we still have the following big additions: webkitgtk 18MB - pulled in by empathy libicu 19MB - pulled in by webkitgtk atlas 12MB - pulled in by pygtk2 via numpy but we managed to rid of most of boost, and replaced cpp by mcpp. So, some progress, some more to do ! Matthias From davidz at redhat.com Mon Jul 6 17:28:12 2009 From: davidz at redhat.com (David Zeuthen) Date: Mon, 06 Jul 2009 13:28:12 -0400 Subject: Fedora desktop spin size issues, update In-Reply-To: <1246896870.1690.11.camel@planemask> References: <1246896870.1690.11.camel@planemask> Message-ID: <1246901292.27685.11.camel@localhost.localdomain> Hey, Is it really worth the effort to keep our flag spin on a CD? I really don't think so. How about doing this o Make our flag spin be even more useful by including apps like OpenOffice and other things we can't currently fit. We'd also include things like, say, the Bugs Bunny trailer and some of the http://truthhappens.redhat.com/ videos, so it's easy to showcase Theora and other _cool_ stuff. [0] o Have a very minimal desktop live _CD_ for installs. Bandwidth- and/or DVD-constrained users can then use this and then install more stuff via PackageKit. This would also help the PackageKit "install software" story. Might also help save bandwidth altogether. FWIW, I've often wanted the latter just for rescue/reinstall situations. 700MB for a simple rescue system is a bit much too sometimes [1]. Thanks, David [0] : We'd put stuff like that somewhere on the live media that isn't the root file system (e.g. the bit that is in the ext4 image inside the squash image inside the iso9660 image...). Now, since video is already heavily compressed we'd simply put it in the iso9660 bit of the file system so it's also available from the media without actually having to boot the live system. [1] : yes, using live media for rescue ops is often a lot more convenient that the usual Fedora rescue story... But that's not really the point of this message and not worth bickering over. From ajax at redhat.com Mon Jul 6 18:49:04 2009 From: ajax at redhat.com (Adam Jackson) Date: Mon, 06 Jul 2009 14:49:04 -0400 Subject: Fedora desktop spin size issues, update In-Reply-To: <1246901292.27685.11.camel@localhost.localdomain> References: <1246896870.1690.11.camel@planemask> <1246901292.27685.11.camel@localhost.localdomain> Message-ID: <1246906144.25343.8667.camel@atropine.boston.devel.redhat.com> On Mon, 2009-07-06 at 13:28 -0400, David Zeuthen wrote: > Hey, > > Is it really worth the effort to keep our flag spin on a CD? I really > don't think so. Probably not. However, the constraint being addressed for testing here is "a more-or-less functional image that fits on whatever media the tester happens to have", which means aiming for 700M is a worthwhile target. Maybe we need separate test kickstarts depending on the test profile? Maybe. We'd still have to play a size game. For actual live images, there's still a benefit in aiming small. Seeking on optical media sucks, bandwidth isn't free, etc. So we should really be coming at this from other end: figure out how much space we need to get a reasonable experience, and then see what media target is near that size and tighten our belts if necessary. We could probably do a decent job in a mini-dvd form factor, I suspect. > o Have a very minimal desktop live _CD_ for installs. Bandwidth- > and/or DVD-constrained users can then use this and then install more > stuff via PackageKit. This would also help the PackageKit "install > software" story. Might also help save bandwidth altogether. Yeah, a reasonable rescue CD would be hot. Though again, it's still a size game. Knoppix clocks in at 645M - ajax -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: signature.asc Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 197 bytes Desc: This is a digitally signed message part URL: From davidz at redhat.com Mon Jul 6 20:56:36 2009 From: davidz at redhat.com (David Zeuthen) Date: Mon, 06 Jul 2009 16:56:36 -0400 Subject: Fedora desktop spin size issues, update In-Reply-To: <1246906144.25343.8667.camel@atropine.boston.devel.redhat.com> References: <1246896870.1690.11.camel@planemask> <1246901292.27685.11.camel@localhost.localdomain> <1246906144.25343.8667.camel@atropine.boston.devel.redhat.com> Message-ID: <1246913796.27685.25.camel@localhost.localdomain> On Mon, 2009-07-06 at 14:49 -0400, Adam Jackson wrote: > On Mon, 2009-07-06 at 13:28 -0400, David Zeuthen wrote: > > Hey, > > > > Is it really worth the effort to keep our flag spin on a CD? I really > > don't think so. > > Probably not. > > However, the constraint being addressed for testing here is "a > more-or-less functional image that fits on whatever media the tester > happens to have", which means aiming for 700M is a worthwhile target. > Maybe we need separate test kickstarts depending on the test profile? > Maybe. We'd still have to play a size game. > > For actual live images, there's still a benefit in aiming small. > Seeking on optical media sucks, bandwidth isn't free, etc. So we should > really be coming at this from other end: figure out how much space we > need to get a reasonable experience, and then see what media target is > near that size and tighten our belts if necessary. We could probably do > a decent job in a mini-dvd form factor, I suspect. I think most testers actually use USB keys. If they don't, then it's probably a bug. FWIW, I've also heard complaints from various people that 1. we don't do a good job of advertising USB media; and 2. we don't offer downloads of USB images I think that 2. is a slight misunderstanding; it's just not how things work since there is no standard USB key size. So we can't really offer people an image. We could probably do a better job for 1. by a) having a simple relocatable GTK+ app that people can run on any even-not-so-recent version of Linux in order to transfer the image to media (heck, we have that for Win32 expect that it's Qt and not GTK+, not that it matters but...). b) do a better job at telling people it's much more convenient to use usb keys (it's much faster, for starters) - e.g. this page http://fedoraproject.org/get-fedora could probably be more helpful insofar that it should talk about USB keys first and "installable Live CD" second.... Just solving b) would probably go a long way. Anyway, I'm clearly rambling. Sorry about that. Anyway, one point here is that we should aim for building something that fits on USB keys. That means we probably needs to stay withing 2000MB compressed - which should be enough space given that our current limit is 700MB (I'm guessing 2GB is a good minimum size of the USB key population out there). David From katzj at redhat.com Mon Jul 6 21:28:40 2009 From: katzj at redhat.com (Jeremy Katz) Date: Mon, 6 Jul 2009 17:28:40 -0400 Subject: Fedora desktop spin size issues, update In-Reply-To: <1246913796.27685.25.camel@localhost.localdomain> References: <1246896870.1690.11.camel@planemask> <1246901292.27685.11.camel@localhost.localdomain> <1246906144.25343.8667.camel@atropine.boston.devel.redhat.com> <1246913796.27685.25.camel@localhost.localdomain> Message-ID: <20090706212840.GA71969@redhat.com> On Monday, July 06 2009, David Zeuthen said: > Anyway, one point here is that we should aim for building something that > fits on USB keys. That means we probably needs to stay withing 2000MB > compressed - which should be enough space given that our current limit > is 700MB (I'm guessing 2GB is a good minimum size of the USB key > population out there). FWIW, I'd first try to see if 1 GB is "enough" if the idea is to go beyond 700 MB. There are a ton of 1 GB keys out there and it still seems to be the most common size of freebie giveaway keys at conferences and such. That's still going to be a significant increase. Jeremy From mclasen at redhat.com Mon Jul 6 21:38:23 2009 From: mclasen at redhat.com (Matthias Clasen) Date: Mon, 06 Jul 2009 17:38:23 -0400 Subject: Cleaning up the Administration menu on the live cd Message-ID: <1246916303.1600.7.camel@planemask> Here is a proposal for a drastic first cut, dropping tools that are dysfunctional or obsoleted by other modules or of limited use or totally uninteresting for the target audience of a desktop spin: - system-config-boot - system-config-language - system-config-lvm - system-config-network - system-config-rootpassword - system-config-selinux - system-config-services After this cut, we'll be left with - PackageKit stuff - authconfig - s-c-firewall - s-c-printing - s-c-users I fully expect some outcry in reaction to this proposal, but keep in mind that the tools will still be available for installation, just not directly on the live cd. Comments ? Matthias From davidz at redhat.com Mon Jul 6 21:39:51 2009 From: davidz at redhat.com (David Zeuthen) Date: Mon, 06 Jul 2009 17:39:51 -0400 Subject: Cleaning up the Administration menu on the live cd In-Reply-To: <1246916303.1600.7.camel@planemask> References: <1246916303.1600.7.camel@planemask> Message-ID: <1246916391.27685.28.camel@localhost.localdomain> On Mon, 2009-07-06 at 17:38 -0400, Matthias Clasen wrote: > Here is a proposal for a drastic first cut, dropping tools that are > dysfunctional or obsoleted by other modules or of limited use or totally > uninteresting for the target audience of a desktop spin: Cool, thanks for doing this. > - s-c-firewall I'd nuke this one too. Along with modifying the desktop livecd ks file to completely disable the firewall. Should be easy enough, I think the kickstart syntax has a shortcut for this. (The rationale for why the above is the right thing to do for the _desktop_ livecd can be found in the archives for this list and the archives for fedora-devel-list. Please familiarize yourself with these threads before flaming. Thanks.) David From cra at WPI.EDU Mon Jul 6 22:21:19 2009 From: cra at WPI.EDU (Chuck Anderson) Date: Mon, 6 Jul 2009 18:21:19 -0400 Subject: Fedora desktop spin size issues, update In-Reply-To: <1246901292.27685.11.camel@localhost.localdomain> References: <1246896870.1690.11.camel@planemask> <1246901292.27685.11.camel@localhost.localdomain> Message-ID: <20090706222119.GA24701@angus.ind.WPI.EDU> On Mon, Jul 06, 2009 at 01:28:12PM -0400, David Zeuthen wrote: > [1] : yes, using live media for rescue ops is often a lot more > convenient that the usual Fedora rescue story... But that's not really > the point of this message and not worth bickering over. Actually, I find the anaconda "Mount your system" under /mnt/sysimage to be a VERY useful feature. I would love to see that ported to the LiveCD environment. It keeps getting more difficult to manually mount a system with RAID, LVM, and LUKS in just the right way so that chroot, grub-install, and mkinitrd work correctly. From davidz at redhat.com Mon Jul 6 22:41:47 2009 From: davidz at redhat.com (David Zeuthen) Date: Mon, 06 Jul 2009 18:41:47 -0400 Subject: Fedora desktop spin size issues, update In-Reply-To: <20090706222119.GA24701@angus.ind.WPI.EDU> References: <1246896870.1690.11.camel@planemask> <1246901292.27685.11.camel@localhost.localdomain> <20090706222119.GA24701@angus.ind.WPI.EDU> Message-ID: <1246920107.27685.40.camel@localhost.localdomain> On Mon, 2009-07-06 at 18:21 -0400, Chuck Anderson wrote: > On Mon, Jul 06, 2009 at 01:28:12PM -0400, David Zeuthen wrote: > > [1] : yes, using live media for rescue ops is often a lot more > > convenient that the usual Fedora rescue story... But that's not really > > the point of this message and not worth bickering over. > > Actually, I find the anaconda "Mount your system" under /mnt/sysimage > to be a VERY useful feature. I would love to see that ported to the > LiveCD environment. It keeps getting more difficult to manually mount > a system with RAID, LVM, and LUKS in just the right way so that > chroot, grub-install, and mkinitrd work correctly. FWIW, Palimpsest (Applications->System Tools->Disk Utility) provides an UI that can be used for starting/stopping Linux MD RAID arrays and also unlocking LUKS volumes. At some point we want to add LVM support but the core LVM / device-mapper toolset still needs some work there. Some day this might work, who knows. Anyway, Palimpsest currently doesn't help setting everything up as you'd expect for recovery mode except for what is mentioned (it's handy instead of having to look up the commands). However, I do agree recovery mode would be nice to add - shouldn't be *too* hard, though it does involves probing every file system for known operating systems signatures (e.g. /etc/fedora-release) and, in case one is found, inspecting (at least) the /etc/fstab file on that file system and then correlating UUID=, LABEL=, /dev/disk/* etc. entries in said file with what's on the system (including handling the cases where assembly of e.g. RAID is needed). I want the user experience to be as simple as selecting a partition and then clicking a "Mount OS in recovery mode" button and then (optionally) dropping you to a chrooted shell where the things are mounted so you can run commands. Totally doable, but not high on the priority list right now.... David From bpepple at fedoraproject.org Mon Jul 6 23:29:45 2009 From: bpepple at fedoraproject.org (Brian Pepple) Date: Mon, 06 Jul 2009 19:29:45 -0400 Subject: Fedora desktop spin size issues, update In-Reply-To: <20090706212840.GA71969@redhat.com> References: <1246896870.1690.11.camel@planemask> <1246901292.27685.11.camel@localhost.localdomain> <1246906144.25343.8667.camel@atropine.boston.devel.redhat.com> <1246913796.27685.25.camel@localhost.localdomain> <20090706212840.GA71969@redhat.com> Message-ID: <1246922985.2366.13.camel@localhost.localdomain> On Mon, 2009-07-06 at 17:28 -0400, Jeremy Katz wrote: > On Monday, July 06 2009, David Zeuthen said: > > Anyway, one point here is that we should aim for building something that > > fits on USB keys. That means we probably needs to stay withing 2000MB > > compressed - which should be enough space given that our current limit > > is 700MB (I'm guessing 2GB is a good minimum size of the USB key > > population out there). > > FWIW, I'd first try to see if 1 GB is "enough" if the idea is to go > beyond 700 MB. There are a ton of 1 GB keys out there and it still > seems to be the most common size of freebie giveaway keys at conferences > and such. That's still going to be a significant increase. +1. Most of the keys I get as freebies tend to be of the 1GB variety. Later, /B -- Brian Pepple identi.ca: http://identi.ca/bpepple gpg --keyserver pgp.mit.edu --recv-keys 810CC15E BD5E 6F9E 8688 E668 8F5B CBDE 326A E936 810C C15E -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: signature.asc Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 197 bytes Desc: This is a digitally signed message part URL: From bpepple at fedoraproject.org Mon Jul 6 23:29:54 2009 From: bpepple at fedoraproject.org (Brian Pepple) Date: Mon, 06 Jul 2009 19:29:54 -0400 Subject: Fedora desktop spin size issues, update In-Reply-To: <1246896870.1690.11.camel@planemask> References: <1246896870.1690.11.camel@planemask> Message-ID: <1246922994.2366.14.camel@localhost.localdomain> On Mon, 2009-07-06 at 12:14 -0400, Matthias Clasen wrote: > Compared to last week, we still have the following big additions: > > webkitgtk 18MB - pulled in by empathy Sorta sucks that the only reason this is being pulled in is support for Adium themes (then again that's probably due to me not really caring about themeing chats). Later, /B -- Brian Pepple identi.ca: http://identi.ca/bpepple gpg --keyserver pgp.mit.edu --recv-keys 810CC15E BD5E 6F9E 8688 E668 8F5B CBDE 326A E936 810C C15E -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: signature.asc Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 197 bytes Desc: This is a digitally signed message part URL: From mclasen at redhat.com Tue Jul 7 02:53:33 2009 From: mclasen at redhat.com (Matthias Clasen) Date: Mon, 06 Jul 2009 22:53:33 -0400 Subject: Display configuration test day tomorrow Message-ID: <1246935213.1600.14.camel@planemask> Just a reminder that we are kicking off our 'fit and finish' initiative with a test day on display configuration tomorrow, in #fedora-fit-and-finish. If you go to http://www.fedoraproject.org/wiki/Test_Day:2009-07-07_Fit_and_Finish:Display_Configuration you'll find more information. We will also have (slightly oversize) live cds available. Please come and join us tomorrow, Matthias From sundaram at fedoraproject.org Tue Jul 7 05:42:53 2009 From: sundaram at fedoraproject.org (Rahul Sundaram) Date: Tue, 07 Jul 2009 11:12:53 +0530 Subject: Cleaning up the Administration menu on the live cd In-Reply-To: <1246916303.1600.7.camel@planemask> References: <1246916303.1600.7.camel@planemask> Message-ID: <4A52E05D.6070700@fedoraproject.org> On 07/07/2009 03:08 AM, Matthias Clasen wrote: > Here is a proposal for a drastic first cut, dropping tools that are > dysfunctional or obsoleted by other modules or of limited use or totally > uninteresting for the target audience of a desktop spin: Is this target audience written down anywhere? > > - system-config-boot > - system-config-language > - system-config-lvm > - system-config-selinux > - system-config-rootpassword These can go. I wouldn't miss them in the default install esp with sudo setup. Why isn't that configured yet? > - system-config-network > - system-config-services I am doubtful about these. Rahul From ajax at redhat.com Tue Jul 7 13:11:34 2009 From: ajax at redhat.com (Adam Jackson) Date: Tue, 07 Jul 2009 09:11:34 -0400 Subject: Cleaning up the Administration menu on the live cd In-Reply-To: <4A52E05D.6070700@fedoraproject.org> References: <1246916303.1600.7.camel@planemask> <4A52E05D.6070700@fedoraproject.org> Message-ID: <1246972294.25343.8674.camel@atropine.boston.devel.redhat.com> On Tue, 2009-07-07 at 11:12 +0530, Rahul Sundaram wrote: > > - system-config-network > > - system-config-services > > I am doubtful about these. Please describe a situation in which you need to use s-c-network on a LiveCD. - ajax -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: signature.asc Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 197 bytes Desc: This is a digitally signed message part URL: From sundaram at fedoraproject.org Tue Jul 7 14:53:19 2009 From: sundaram at fedoraproject.org (Rahul Sundaram) Date: Tue, 07 Jul 2009 20:23:19 +0530 Subject: Cleaning up the Administration menu on the live cd In-Reply-To: <1246972294.25343.8674.camel@atropine.boston.devel.redhat.com> References: <1246916303.1600.7.camel@planemask> <4A52E05D.6070700@fedoraproject.org> <1246972294.25343.8674.camel@atropine.boston.devel.redhat.com> Message-ID: <4A53615F.3060004@fedoraproject.org> On 07/07/2009 06:41 PM, Adam Jackson wrote: > On Tue, 2009-07-07 at 11:12 +0530, Rahul Sundaram wrote: > >>> - system-config-network >>> - system-config-services >> >> I am doubtful about these. > > Please describe a situation in which you need to use s-c-network on a > LiveCD. Live CD's are the primary recommended medium of installation in Fedora via http://get.fedoraproject.org. Depending on the setup, you need it to configure the network to get online and to get the other tools. So that's a important need for it. Rahul From dcbw at redhat.com Tue Jul 7 15:17:56 2009 From: dcbw at redhat.com (Dan Williams) Date: Tue, 07 Jul 2009 11:17:56 -0400 Subject: Cleaning up the Administration menu on the live cd In-Reply-To: <4A53615F.3060004@fedoraproject.org> References: <1246916303.1600.7.camel@planemask> <4A52E05D.6070700@fedoraproject.org> <1246972294.25343.8674.camel@atropine.boston.devel.redhat.com> <4A53615F.3060004@fedoraproject.org> Message-ID: <1246979876.28570.0.camel@localhost.localdomain> On Tue, 2009-07-07 at 20:23 +0530, Rahul Sundaram wrote: > On 07/07/2009 06:41 PM, Adam Jackson wrote: > > On Tue, 2009-07-07 at 11:12 +0530, Rahul Sundaram wrote: > > > >>> - system-config-network > >>> - system-config-services > >> > >> I am doubtful about these. > > > > Please describe a situation in which you need to use s-c-network on a > > LiveCD. > > Live CD's are the primary recommended medium of installation in Fedora > via http://get.fedoraproject.org. Depending on the setup, you need it to > configure the network to get online and to get the other tools. So > that's a important need for it. Setup should be using NetworkManager already... it just writes out ifcfg files based on your DHCP/Static choice and lets NM do whatever. Dan From jlaska at redhat.com Tue Jul 7 15:29:07 2009 From: jlaska at redhat.com (James Laska) Date: Tue, 07 Jul 2009 11:29:07 -0400 Subject: Display configuration test day [TODAY] In-Reply-To: <1246935213.1600.14.camel@planemask> References: <1246935213.1600.14.camel@planemask> Message-ID: <1246980547.3918.73.camel@flatline.devel.redhat.com> On Mon, 2009-07-06 at 22:53 -0400, Matthias Clasen wrote: > Just a reminder that we are kicking off our 'fit and finish' initiative > with a test day on display configuration tomorrow, in > #fedora-fit-and-finish. If you go to > > http://www.fedoraproject.org/wiki/Test_Day:2009-07-07_Fit_and_Finish:Display_Configuration > > you'll find more information. We will also have (slightly oversize) live > cds available. Thanks for the reminder Matthias! For interested folks, there is a receptive audience awaiting your feedback and ideas around 'desktop configuration' issues. There are several test cases defined to help guide testing. I encourage you to join the fun over in #fedora-fit-and-finish. Thanks, James -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: signature.asc Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 197 bytes Desc: This is a digitally signed message part URL: From a.mani.cms at gmail.com Tue Jul 7 15:33:41 2009 From: a.mani.cms at gmail.com (Mani A) Date: Tue, 7 Jul 2009 21:03:41 +0530 Subject: Cleaning up the Administration menu on the live cd In-Reply-To: <1246916303.1600.7.camel@planemask> References: <1246916303.1600.7.camel@planemask> Message-ID: <78323d480907070833v6d0256dqc7349cfaea2734bd@mail.gmail.com> On Tue, Jul 7, 2009 at 3:08 AM, Matthias Clasen wrote: > Here is a proposal for a drastic first cut, dropping tools that are > dysfunctional or obsoleted by other modules or of limited use or totally > uninteresting for the target audience of a desktop spin: > > - system-config- > Comments ? They can be removed, provided the other alternatives are stable enough. But do keep a menu item 'System-Config-Missing' with a link to documentation pointing to the correct GUI and CLI alternatives and other options. Best A. Mani -- A. Mani ASL, CLC, AMS, CMS http://amani.topcities.com http://www.logicamani.co.cc From notting at redhat.com Tue Jul 7 15:40:56 2009 From: notting at redhat.com (Bill Nottingham) Date: Tue, 7 Jul 2009 11:40:56 -0400 Subject: Cleaning up the Administration menu on the live cd In-Reply-To: <78323d480907070833v6d0256dqc7349cfaea2734bd@mail.gmail.com> References: <1246916303.1600.7.camel@planemask> <78323d480907070833v6d0256dqc7349cfaea2734bd@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <20090707154056.GF12948@nostromo.devel.redhat.com> Mani A (a.mani.cms at gmail.com) said: > > Here is a proposal for a drastic first cut, dropping tools that are > > dysfunctional or obsoleted by other modules or of limited use or totally > > uninteresting for the target audience of a desktop spin: > > > > - system-config- > > Comments ? > > They can be removed, provided the other alternatives are stable > enough. But do keep a menu item 'System-Config-Missing' with a link to > documentation pointing to the correct GUI and CLI alternatives and > other options. ... how is that a useful UI to give to the user? Either what we have on the LiveCD is good enough, and we don't need a weird 'missing link' documentation item. Or it isn't good enough... and it should be fixed to be. Equivocating isn't useful. Bill From sundaram at fedoraproject.org Tue Jul 7 15:39:57 2009 From: sundaram at fedoraproject.org (Rahul Sundaram) Date: Tue, 07 Jul 2009 21:09:57 +0530 Subject: Cleaning up the Administration menu on the live cd In-Reply-To: <1246979876.28570.0.camel@localhost.localdomain> References: <1246916303.1600.7.camel@planemask> <4A52E05D.6070700@fedoraproject.org> <1246972294.25343.8674.camel@atropine.boston.devel.redhat.com> <4A53615F.3060004@fedoraproject.org> <1246979876.28570.0.camel@localhost.localdomain> Message-ID: <4A536C4D.9090908@fedoraproject.org> On 07/07/2009 08:47 PM, Dan Williams wrote: > > Setup should be using NetworkManager already... it just writes out > ifcfg files based on your DHCP/Static choice and lets NM do whatever. If you really think NM now provides all that s-c-n provides, shouldn't it be removed from the repo itself? I don't think we are at that stage yet and it would be useful to understand why users are continuing to use s-c-n before dropping it from the default installation. Tools that are being used by our users to get on the network cannot be dropped from the default because it would create a chicken and egg problem. Rahul From a.mani.cms at gmail.com Wed Jul 8 00:07:58 2009 From: a.mani.cms at gmail.com (Mani A) Date: Wed, 8 Jul 2009 05:37:58 +0530 Subject: Cleaning up the Administration menu on the live cd In-Reply-To: <20090707154056.GF12948@nostromo.devel.redhat.com> References: <1246916303.1600.7.camel@planemask> <78323d480907070833v6d0256dqc7349cfaea2734bd@mail.gmail.com> <20090707154056.GF12948@nostromo.devel.redhat.com> Message-ID: <78323d480907071707o467737ffh3b44aea3afb67a1c@mail.gmail.com> On Tue, Jul 7, 2009 at 9:10 PM, Bill Nottingham wrote: > Mani A (a.mani.cms at gmail.com) said: >> They can be removed, provided the other alternatives are stable >> enough. But do keep a menu item 'System-Config-Missing' with a link to >> documentation pointing to the correct GUI and CLI alternatives and >> other options. > > ... how is that a useful UI to give to the user? > > Either what we have on the LiveCD is good enough, and we don't need > a weird 'missing link' documentation item. Or it isn't good enough... > and it should be fixed to be. Equivocating isn't useful. It can be useful for new users and users with some previous Fedora experience who may not care to look at the release notes. This class may become confused and possibly move over to some other distro. The other option is to have separate release notes for the live Cd and dvds. Maybe users should be forced to RTFM :) Best A. Mani -- A. Mani ASL, CLC, AMS, CMS http://amani.topcities.com http://www.logicamani.co.cc From notting at redhat.com Wed Jul 8 02:48:21 2009 From: notting at redhat.com (Bill Nottingham) Date: Tue, 7 Jul 2009 22:48:21 -0400 Subject: Cleaning up the Administration menu on the live cd In-Reply-To: <78323d480907071707o467737ffh3b44aea3afb67a1c@mail.gmail.com> References: <1246916303.1600.7.camel@planemask> <78323d480907070833v6d0256dqc7349cfaea2734bd@mail.gmail.com> <20090707154056.GF12948@nostromo.devel.redhat.com> <78323d480907071707o467737ffh3b44aea3afb67a1c@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <20090708024821.GB21402@nostromo.devel.redhat.com> Mani A (a.mani.cms at gmail.com) said: > >> They can be removed, provided the other alternatives are stable > >> enough. But do keep a menu item 'System-Config-Missing' with a link to > >> documentation pointing to the correct GUI and CLI alternatives and > >> other options. > > > > ... how is that a useful UI to give to the user? > > > > Either what we have on the LiveCD is good enough, and we don't need > > a weird 'missing link' documentation item. Or it isn't good enough... > > and it should be fixed to be. Equivocating isn't useful. > > It can be useful for new users and users with some previous Fedora > experience who may not care to look at the release notes. That, by definition, is everyone. If that's what you mean, say that. > This class may become confused and possibly move over to some other distro. How would they be confused any more than they would with different configuration being available in the Desktop, KDE, XFCE, and LXDE spins? I still maintain the only sensible action is to ship one set of tools that works well and is integrated, not random docs that say 'oh, you may want to look elsewhere.' Bill From bnocera at redhat.com Wed Jul 8 17:17:59 2009 From: bnocera at redhat.com (Bastien Nocera) Date: Wed, 08 Jul 2009 18:17:59 +0100 Subject: Fedora desktop spin size issues, update In-Reply-To: <1246922994.2366.14.camel@localhost.localdomain> References: <1246896870.1690.11.camel@planemask> <1246922994.2366.14.camel@localhost.localdomain> Message-ID: <1247073479.2796.43.camel@snoogens.fab.redhat.com> On Mon, 2009-07-06 at 19:29 -0400, Brian Pepple wrote: > On Mon, 2009-07-06 at 12:14 -0400, Matthias Clasen wrote: > > Compared to last week, we still have the following big additions: > > > > webkitgtk 18MB - pulled in by empathy > > Sorta sucks that the only reason this is being pulled in is support for > Adium themes (then again that's probably due to me not really caring > about themeing chats). I don't particularly like the themed chats, but the default "theme" (just a gtktextview) is not great for chat tbh. So it's not the case of being able to switch themes, but choosing a good default. Doesn't solve the above problem though :/ From mclasen at redhat.com Wed Jul 8 19:42:54 2009 From: mclasen at redhat.com (Matthias Clasen) Date: Wed, 08 Jul 2009 15:42:54 -0400 Subject: Display Configuration test day summary Message-ID: <1247082174.2303.11.camel@planemask> We've had the first 'Fit and Finish' test day on display configuration yesterday. I'd like to thank everybody who came by on irc and tested something, or filed a bug. If you could not make it, our test cases are still available here: https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Test_Day:2009-07-07_Fit_and_Finish:Display_Configuration That page also contains the results of our yesterdays testing efforts, if you are interested. The good news is that we have already fixed some of the things that were found broken, and more fixes are on the way. Here is just one exemplary fix: * Tue Jul 07 2009 Adam Jackson 2.27.3-2 - gnome-desktop-2.27.3-edid-prop-name.patch: Adapt to RANDR 1.3's new name for the EDID output property. I'll post the date an topic for our next 'Fit and Finish' test day in the next few days. Matthias From mclasen at redhat.com Fri Jul 10 16:19:35 2009 From: mclasen at redhat.com (Matthias Clasen) Date: Fri, 10 Jul 2009 12:19:35 -0400 Subject: Next Fit and Finish test day: Batteries and Suspend Message-ID: <1247242775.2004.10.camel@planemask> Time to announce the next 'fit and finish' test day. On July 21, we want to look at issues with the user experience around batteries, suspend and power management in general. https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Test_Day:2009-07-21_Fit_and_Finish:Batteries_and_Suspend Please join us in #fedora-fit-and-finish. Matthias From mclasen at redhat.com Fri Jul 10 18:18:20 2009 From: mclasen at redhat.com (Matthias Clasen) Date: Fri, 10 Jul 2009 14:18:20 -0400 Subject: Fedora desktop spin size issues, update In-Reply-To: <1246901292.27685.11.camel@localhost.localdomain> References: <1246896870.1690.11.camel@planemask> <1246901292.27685.11.camel@localhost.localdomain> Message-ID: <1247249900.2004.25.camel@planemask> On Mon, 2009-07-06 at 13:28 -0400, David Zeuthen wrote: > Hey, > > Is it really worth the effort to keep our flag spin on a CD? I really > don't think so. How about doing this > > o Make our flag spin be even more useful by including apps like > OpenOffice and other things we can't currently fit. We'd also > include things like, say, the Bugs Bunny trailer and some of > the http://truthhappens.redhat.com/ videos, so it's easy to > showcase Theora and other _cool_ stuff. [0] > > o Have a very minimal desktop live _CD_ for installs. Bandwidth- > and/or DVD-constrained users can then use this and then install more > stuff via PackageKit. This would also help the PackageKit "install > software" story. Might also help save bandwidth altogether. So, I think both of these are excellent ideas that we should pursue. Targetting a 1GB usb stick as the primary medium would probably allow us to include OpenOffice (with some subset of languages), in addition to adding content. And having a smaller, cd image that still gives you a barebones desktop + browser, but is otherwise optimized for common rescue operations is a great idea. I think this is pretty close to the original vision for firstaidkit; unfortunately, it is not there yet. To make 'targeting the stick' a reality, we will need a collection of suitable content - Ubuntu are doing a pretty good job at this, for all I know. Maybe it would be worthwhile to look at some of their ideas; having a 'Fedora presentation' and other materials that ambassadors can use right on the image would be pretty neat. The other thing we need to worry about for 'targeting the stick' is the deployment story. When I was last trying this for F11, I had to follow at least 4 levels of links and then copy-and-paste a bunch of scary commands to get the iso onto my stick. The Windows story is much better with the liveusb-creator, but it is also hidden too deep below the download page. We need to get much closer to 1-click install than we currently are. And it needs to work that way on Linux and OS X too, ideally. Quite a bit of work, but worth trying. Matthias From postmaster at boxbe.com Fri Jul 10 18:19:13 2009 From: postmaster at boxbe.com (postmaster at boxbe.com) Date: Fri, 10 Jul 2009 11:19:13 -0700 (PDT) Subject: Fedora desktop spin size issues, update (Action Required) Message-ID: <1182090103.20028.1247249953207.JavaMail.prod@app003.boxbe.com> Hello Discussions about development for the Fedora desktop, This message serves as notification that you will not receive any more courtesy notices from our members for two days. Messages you have sent will remain in a lower priority queue for our member to review at their leisure. Future messages will be more likely to be viewed if you are on our member's priority Guest List. Thank you, wieseltux23 at gmail.com About Boxbe This courtesy notice is part of a free service to make email more reliable and useful. Boxbe (http://www.boxbe.com) uses your existing social network and that of your friends to keep your inbox clean and make sure you receive email from people who matter to you. Boxbe: Say Goodbye to Email Overload Visit http://www.boxbe.com/how-it-works?tc=213800656_1331361658 -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: -------------- next part -------------- An embedded message was scrubbed... From: Matthias Clasen Subject: Re: Fedora desktop spin size issues, update Date: Fri, 10 Jul 2009 14:18:20 -0400 Size: 3227 URL: From mclasen at redhat.com Sat Jul 11 01:42:09 2009 From: mclasen at redhat.com (Matthias Clasen) Date: Fri, 10 Jul 2009 21:42:09 -0400 Subject: gtk print dialog and OOo In-Reply-To: <1237385358.16894.133.camel@Vain> References: <1237385358.16894.133.camel@Vain> Message-ID: <1247276529.2047.7.camel@planemask> On Wed, 2009-03-18 at 14:09 +0000, Caol?n McNamara wrote: > We've supported a gtk print dialog integration in OOo for a while, but > there has always been a few little gotchas, and now that the "built-in" > OOo dialog has some nifty extras there are extra gotchas. So I'll be > reverting to the "built-in" dialog for F11, a quick dump of the gotchas > are.. Hey Caolan, I don't know if you have been following this, but Marek has been chipping away on your complaints. I wonder if it would make sense for you to evaluate the state of gtk printing for OOo with GTK+ 2.17.4, and give us some feedback on what further improvements you think are needed to make OOo use GtkPrint again in F12. > *) Need an extra "Selection" option for printing. > http://bugzilla.gnome.org/show_bug.cgi?id=344519 > http://bugzilla.gnome.org/show_bug.cgi?id=563619 > > OOo can print just the selected text, selected graphic or selected > cells, but no way to show that in the gtk print dialog. This is improved, at least. It is now possible to print the 'selection'. > *) Way to specify the page size and orientation (esp. when using n-up > printing) > http://bugzilla.gnome.org/show_bug.cgi?id=551409 > http://bugzilla.gnome.org/show_bug.cgi?id=551726 > > Most OpenOffice.org applications have per-page orientations rather than > global per print-job orientation, but when printing multiple pages in > one sheet of paper through cups, its desirable to have a way to specify > the orientation and page size of the combined sheet. We could do this > with a custom tab, but see next entry Orientation and other page setup controls can now be embedded in the print dialog, but maybe you were after something else here ? > *) Emit a signal when a printer is selected. > http://bugzilla.gnome.org/show_bug.cgi?id=564854 > > So e.g. a custom tab that should only exist for say, printing to a cups > backend, or using save as .pdf file can be shown/hidden depending on the > printer selection, e.g. pdf encryption options or pdf "read-only except > for filling in fields" directives which only make sense in a save > as .pdf context. Hackable around with nasty switch-page callback on the > notebook widget if you rummage around horrifically through the dialog > hierarchy looking for it. Fixed, notify::selected-printer should work for what you want here. Matthias From caolanm at redhat.com Sat Jul 11 09:35:42 2009 From: caolanm at redhat.com (=?ISO-8859-1?Q?Caol=E1n?= McNamara) Date: Sat, 11 Jul 2009 10:35:42 +0100 Subject: gtk print dialog and OOo In-Reply-To: <1247276529.2047.7.camel@planemask> References: <1237385358.16894.133.camel@Vain> <1247276529.2047.7.camel@planemask> Message-ID: <1247304942.2804.45.camel@Vain> On Fri, 2009-07-10 at 21:42 -0400, Matthias Clasen wrote: > On Wed, 2009-03-18 at 14:09 +0000, Caol?n McNamara wrote: > > We've supported a gtk print dialog integration in OOo for a while, but > > there has always been a few little gotchas, and now that the "built-in" > > OOo dialog has some nifty extras there are extra gotchas. So I'll be > > reverting to the "built-in" dialog for F11, a quick dump of the gotchas > > are.. > > Hey Caolan, > > I don't know if you have been following this, but Marek has been > chipping away on your complaints. I wonder if it would make sense for > you to evaluate the state of gtk printing for OOo with GTK+ 2.17.4, and > give us some feedback on what further improvements you think are needed > to make OOo use GtkPrint again in F12. Sounds good, there are some move upstream http://wiki.services.openoffice.org/wiki/Printerpullpages to basically remodel printing and the printing dialog to fit the mac print dialog into OOo, which happily aligns matters closer to making the gtk print dialog stuff less of a bodge. I've got some bits and pieces hacked together at the moment to fit that model, just need to complete it. C. From debarshi.ray at gmail.com Sat Jul 11 11:06:19 2009 From: debarshi.ray at gmail.com (Debarshi Ray) Date: Sat, 11 Jul 2009 16:36:19 +0530 Subject: Champlain Message-ID: <3170f42f0907110406v46117b12mdc102bcf085cb882@mail.gmail.com> I am going to update libchamplain from 0.2.9 to 0.3.3 in Fedora 11. This involves a change in the soname, but since no other package depends on it I hope it would not be a problem. On the plus side, the GtkChamplainEmbed widget which was earlier separately released has been merged into the libchamplain tarball and we can put in a subpackage. Not to mention that potential Champlain users and developers will find this helpful. What do you think? Happy hacking, Debarshi -- One reason that life is complex is that it has a real part and an imaginary part. -- Andrew Koenig From bpepple at fedoraproject.org Sat Jul 11 12:37:49 2009 From: bpepple at fedoraproject.org (Brian Pepple) Date: Sat, 11 Jul 2009 08:37:49 -0400 Subject: Champlain In-Reply-To: <3170f42f0907110406v46117b12mdc102bcf085cb882@mail.gmail.com> References: <3170f42f0907110406v46117b12mdc102bcf085cb882@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <1247315869.2774.4.camel@localhost.localdomain> On Sat, 2009-07-11 at 16:36 +0530, Debarshi Ray wrote: > I am going to update libchamplain from 0.2.9 to 0.3.3 in Fedora 11. > This involves a change in the soname, but since no other package > depends on it I hope it would not be a problem. On the plus side, the > GtkChamplainEmbed widget which was earlier separately released has > been merged into the libchamplain tarball and we can put in a > subpackage. Not to mention that potential Champlain users and > developers will find this helpful. > > What do you think? I've been working on updating libchamplain to 0.3.3 in Rawhide, but until it gets ported to the clutter-0.9 api (or we do a clutter-0.8 compat) it's a no go for now. Regarding pushing this to F11, I really don't think we should, since the only real consumer of libchamplain is Empathy and we won't be pushing a version of it with libchamplain support to F11. Later, /B -- Brian Pepple https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/User:Bpepple gpg --keyserver pgp.mit.edu --recv-keys 810CC15E BD5E 6F9E 8688 E668 8F5B CBDE 326A E936 810C C15E -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: signature.asc Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 197 bytes Desc: This is a digitally signed message part URL: From debarshi.ray at gmail.com Sat Jul 11 12:55:17 2009 From: debarshi.ray at gmail.com (Debarshi Ray) Date: Sat, 11 Jul 2009 18:25:17 +0530 Subject: Champlain In-Reply-To: <1247315869.2774.4.camel@localhost.localdomain> References: <3170f42f0907110406v46117b12mdc102bcf085cb882@mail.gmail.com> <1247315869.2774.4.camel@localhost.localdomain> Message-ID: <3170f42f0907110555t56c4ce34u76254bb797360b29@mail.gmail.com> > I've been working on updating libchamplain to 0.3.3 in Rawhide, but > until it gets ported to the clutter-0.9 api (or we do a clutter-0.8 > compat) it's a no go for now. That is also what I was waiting for. > Regarding pushing this to F11, I really > don't think we should, since the only real consumer of libchamplain is > Empathy There is a Eye of GNOME plugin too. > and we won't be pushing a version of it with libchamplain > support to F11. So no one is affected by this change. On the other hand, 0.2.x is old and 0.3.x is where the fun is. So atleast some developers would benefit from it and libchamplain-0.3 would also get some testing leading to a better 0.4.x. Cheers, Debarshi -- One reason that life is complex is that it has a real part and an imaginary part. -- Andrew Koenig From bpepple at fedoraproject.org Sat Jul 11 13:01:25 2009 From: bpepple at fedoraproject.org (Brian Pepple) Date: Sat, 11 Jul 2009 09:01:25 -0400 Subject: Champlain In-Reply-To: <3170f42f0907110555t56c4ce34u76254bb797360b29@mail.gmail.com> References: <3170f42f0907110406v46117b12mdc102bcf085cb882@mail.gmail.com> <1247315869.2774.4.camel@localhost.localdomain> <3170f42f0907110555t56c4ce34u76254bb797360b29@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <1247317285.3215.2.camel@localhost.localdomain> On Sat, 2009-07-11 at 18:25 +0530, Debarshi Ray wrote: > > So no one is affected by this change. On the other hand, 0.2.x is old > and 0.3.x is where the fun is. So atleast some developers would > benefit from it and libchamplain-0.3 would also get some testing > leading to a better 0.4.x. Since the are some consumers that could make use of it that I wasn't aware of, it's probably worth it (assuming we also update Rawhide, so we don't have NVR issues). Later, /B -- Brian Pepple https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/User:Bpepple gpg --keyserver pgp.mit.edu --recv-keys 810CC15E BD5E 6F9E 8688 E668 8F5B CBDE 326A E936 810C C15E -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: signature.asc Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 197 bytes Desc: This is a digitally signed message part URL: From giallu at gmail.com Sat Jul 11 21:01:52 2009 From: giallu at gmail.com (Gianluca Sforna) Date: Sat, 11 Jul 2009 23:01:52 +0200 Subject: Fedora desktop spin size issues, update In-Reply-To: <1247249900.2004.25.camel@planemask> References: <1246896870.1690.11.camel@planemask> <1246901292.27685.11.camel@localhost.localdomain> <1247249900.2004.25.camel@planemask> Message-ID: On Fri, Jul 10, 2009 at 8:18 PM, Matthias Clasen wrote: > > So, I think both of these are excellent ideas that we should pursue. > Targetting a 1GB usb stick as the primary medium would probably allow us > to include OpenOffice (with some subset of languages), in addition to > adding content. > And this brings me to the question: does anyone know how Ubuntu manage to squeeze it in the LiveCD? -- Gianluca Sforna http://morefedora.blogspot.com http://www.linkedin.com/in/gianlucasforna From bnocera at redhat.com Sun Jul 12 17:24:30 2009 From: bnocera at redhat.com (Bastien Nocera) Date: Sun, 12 Jul 2009 18:24:30 +0100 Subject: Champlain In-Reply-To: <4A589207.4010406@poolshark.org> References: <3170f42f0907110406v46117b12mdc102bcf085cb882@mail.gmail.com> <1247315869.2774.4.camel@localhost.localdomain> <4A589207.4010406@poolshark.org> Message-ID: <1247419470.5460.5.camel@snoogens.fab.redhat.com> On Sat, 2009-07-11 at 15:22 +0200, Denis Leroy wrote: > On 07/11/2009 02:37 PM, Brian Pepple wrote: > > I've been working on updating libchamplain to 0.3.3 in Rawhide, but > > until it gets ported to the clutter-0.9 api (or we do a clutter-0.8 > > compat) it's a no go for now. > > I've been told to expect clutter 1.0 real soon (tm) :-) Given that the last release on the devel branch was called "rc2", this is hardly insider information... From mclasen at redhat.com Mon Jul 13 00:26:38 2009 From: mclasen at redhat.com (Matthias Clasen) Date: Sun, 12 Jul 2009 20:26:38 -0400 Subject: Fedora desktop spin size issues, update In-Reply-To: References: <1246896870.1690.11.camel@planemask> <1246901292.27685.11.camel@localhost.localdomain> <1247249900.2004.25.camel@planemask> Message-ID: <1247444799.1589.0.camel@planemask> On Sat, 2009-07-11 at 23:01 +0200, Gianluca Sforna wrote: > On Fri, Jul 10, 2009 at 8:18 PM, Matthias Clasen wrote: > > > > So, I think both of these are excellent ideas that we should pursue. > > Targetting a 1GB usb stick as the primary medium would probably allow us > > to include OpenOffice (with some subset of languages), in addition to > > adding content. > > > > And this brings me to the question: does anyone know how Ubuntu manage > to squeeze it in the LiveCD? By excluding languages, I believe. From giallu at gmail.com Mon Jul 13 08:43:58 2009 From: giallu at gmail.com (Gianluca Sforna) Date: Mon, 13 Jul 2009 10:43:58 +0200 Subject: gpointing-device-settings Message-ID: Hi all, it seems there is a specific project for exposing additional input device controls in gnome-mouse-properties http://git.gnome.org/cgit/gpointing-device-settings/ so I packaged it and submitted for review: https://bugzilla.redhat.com/show_bug.cgi?id=509310 But after reading: http://who-t.blogspot.com/2009/04/synaptics-11-and-what-your-touchpad-can.html and the linked bugzilla.gnome.org bugs I'm not sure it's needed at all. Any idea? -- Gianluca Sforna http://morefedora.blogspot.com http://www.linkedin.com/in/gianlucasforna From christoph.wickert at googlemail.com Mon Jul 13 08:49:25 2009 From: christoph.wickert at googlemail.com (Christoph Wickert) Date: Mon, 13 Jul 2009 10:49:25 +0200 Subject: Fedora desktop spin size issues, update In-Reply-To: <1247444799.1589.0.camel@planemask> References: <1246896870.1690.11.camel@planemask> <1246901292.27685.11.camel@localhost.localdomain> <1247249900.2004.25.camel@planemask> <1247444799.1589.0.camel@planemask> Message-ID: <1247474965.2540.3.camel@localhost> Am Sonntag, den 12.07.2009, 20:26 -0400 schrieb Matthias Clasen: > On Sat, 2009-07-11 at 23:01 +0200, Gianluca Sforna wrote: > > On Fri, Jul 10, 2009 at 8:18 PM, Matthias Clasen wrote: > > > > > > So, I think both of these are excellent ideas that we should pursue. > > > Targetting a 1GB usb stick as the primary medium would probably allow us > > > to include OpenOffice (with some subset of languages), in addition to > > > adding content. > > > > > > > And this brings me to the question: does anyone know how Ubuntu manage > > to squeeze it in the LiveCD? > > By excluding languages, I believe. And by packaging smarter: They make more use of sub-packages, use more fine grained dependencies and things are smaller in general. I. e. when I wanted to do a minimal version of the LXDE Live-CD, I didn't manage to get smaller than 480 MB. Same with Debian/Ubuntu was only 280 MB. Regards, Christoph From bnocera at redhat.com Mon Jul 13 10:54:51 2009 From: bnocera at redhat.com (Bastien Nocera) Date: Mon, 13 Jul 2009 11:54:51 +0100 Subject: gpointing-device-settings In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <1247482491.5460.9.camel@snoogens.fab.redhat.com> On Mon, 2009-07-13 at 10:43 +0200, Gianluca Sforna wrote: > Hi all, > it seems there is a specific project for exposing additional input > device controls in gnome-mouse-properties > > http://git.gnome.org/cgit/gpointing-device-settings/ > > so I packaged it and submitted for review: > https://bugzilla.redhat.com/show_bug.cgi?id=509310 > > But after reading: > http://who-t.blogspot.com/2009/04/synaptics-11-and-what-your-touchpad-can.html > and the linked bugzilla.gnome.org bugs I'm not sure it's needed at all. Would probably be best to make sure the integrated version has all the necessary features, rather than having yet another configuration tool. If features are missing, or are broken, best file a bug upstream. Cheers From giallu at gmail.com Mon Jul 13 11:05:10 2009 From: giallu at gmail.com (Gianluca Sforna) Date: Mon, 13 Jul 2009 13:05:10 +0200 Subject: gpointing-device-settings In-Reply-To: <1247482491.5460.9.camel@snoogens.fab.redhat.com> References: <1247482491.5460.9.camel@snoogens.fab.redhat.com> Message-ID: On Mon, Jul 13, 2009 at 12:54 PM, Bastien Nocera wrote: > Would probably be best to make sure the integrated version has all the > necessary features, rather than having yet another configuration tool. Well, it's not really _another_ configuration tool as it adds up a new "Touchpad" tab in g-m-p. > If features are missing, or are broken, best file a bug upstream. I'm actually trying to understand if this (or equivalent) stuff is going into the g-m-p code; in this case I'd rather withdraw the review request -- Gianluca Sforna http://morefedora.blogspot.com http://www.linkedin.com/in/gianlucasforna From mnowak at redhat.com Mon Jul 13 14:05:25 2009 From: mnowak at redhat.com (Michal Nowak) Date: Mon, 13 Jul 2009 10:05:25 -0400 (EDT) Subject: Update startup-notification to version 0.10 In-Reply-To: <854209076.325641247493468322.JavaMail.root@zmail04.collab.prod.int.phx2.redhat.com> Message-ID: <1302241097.326611247493925142.JavaMail.root@zmail04.collab.prod.int.phx2.redhat.com> Awesome Window Manager [0] requires startup-notification of version 0.10 [1], I filled bug for it [3], however, no action was taken so far. Can some of you desktop folks bump the version, please? The only changes are that XCB support was merged and some code clean up was done [3]. Thanks, Michal -- [0] https://bugzilla.redhat.com/show_bug.cgi?id=awesome [1] http://www.freedesktop.org/software/startup-notification/releases/ [2] https://bugzilla.redhat.com/show_bug.cgi?id=499517 [3] http://lists.freedesktop.org/archives/xdg/2009-January/010176.html From mclasen at redhat.com Mon Jul 13 15:59:38 2009 From: mclasen at redhat.com (Matthias Clasen) Date: Mon, 13 Jul 2009 11:59:38 -0400 Subject: Update startup-notification to version 0.10 In-Reply-To: <1302241097.326611247493925142.JavaMail.root@zmail04.collab.prod.int.phx2.redhat.com> References: <1302241097.326611247493925142.JavaMail.root@zmail04.collab.prod.int.phx2.redhat.com> Message-ID: <1247500779.1695.0.camel@planemask> On Mon, 2009-07-13 at 10:05 -0400, Michal Nowak wrote: > Awesome Window Manager [0] requires startup-notification of version > 0.10 [1], I filled bug for it [3], however, no action was taken so > far. Can some of you desktop folks bump the version, please? Done From vaeood at yahoo.com Tue Jul 14 06:46:56 2009 From: vaeood at yahoo.com (Hristo Petkov) Date: Mon, 13 Jul 2009 23:46:56 -0700 (PDT) Subject: The OpenOffice on Flash Message-ID: <123311.64099.qm@web111602.mail.gq1.yahoo.com> Hi Guys, In my view it is not obligatory to 'copy and paste' of what in Ubuntu are doing. The Live CD may become for example Live DVD of the whole Desktop with check-boxes on initialisation what the user wants to install in this session. Regards -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From debarshi.ray at gmail.com Wed Jul 15 02:09:13 2009 From: debarshi.ray at gmail.com (Debarshi Ray) Date: Wed, 15 Jul 2009 07:39:13 +0530 Subject: Champlain In-Reply-To: <1247317285.3215.2.camel@localhost.localdomain> References: <3170f42f0907110406v46117b12mdc102bcf085cb882@mail.gmail.com> <1247315869.2774.4.camel@localhost.localdomain> <3170f42f0907110555t56c4ce34u76254bb797360b29@mail.gmail.com> <1247317285.3215.2.camel@localhost.localdomain> Message-ID: <3170f42f0907141909y1d309a5cj6f37920a9a60e224@mail.gmail.com> According to http://live.gnome.org/libchamplain/schedule they can be expected to use Clutter 1.0 only from 3rd August, which is a day before the Alpha freeze. Cheers, Debarshi -- One reason that life is complex is that it has a real part and an imaginary part. -- Andrew Koenig From stickster at gmail.com Wed Jul 15 19:40:58 2009 From: stickster at gmail.com (Paul W. Frields) Date: Wed, 15 Jul 2009 15:40:58 -0400 Subject: Cleaning up the Administration menu on the live cd In-Reply-To: <1246916391.27685.28.camel@localhost.localdomain> References: <1246916303.1600.7.camel@planemask> <1246916391.27685.28.camel@localhost.localdomain> Message-ID: <20090715194058.GD8801@localhost.localdomain> On Mon, Jul 06, 2009 at 05:39:51PM -0400, David Zeuthen wrote: > On Mon, 2009-07-06 at 17:38 -0400, Matthias Clasen wrote: > > Here is a proposal for a drastic first cut, dropping tools that are > > dysfunctional or obsoleted by other modules or of limited use or totally > > uninteresting for the target audience of a desktop spin: > > Cool, thanks for doing this. > > > - s-c-firewall > > I'd nuke this one too. Along with modifying the desktop livecd ks file > to completely disable the firewall. Should be easy enough, I think the > kickstart syntax has a shortcut for this. > > (The rationale for why the above is the right thing to do for the > _desktop_ livecd can be found in the archives for this list and the > archives for fedora-devel-list. Please familiarize yourself with these > threads before flaming. Thanks.) Has anyone talked with the s-c-firewall maintainer and other interested parties to see what could be done to change the model by which it works? E.g.: * Punching holes where needed to support Avahi, user file sharing, ... * Setting networks up for trust, so you could operate more freely on your home wireless, but be less trusting at a new wireless network you don't own >From what I hear, Thomas Woerner was interested in collaborating on these features. -- Paul W. Frields http://paul.frields.org/ gpg fingerprint: 3DA6 A0AC 6D58 FEC4 0233 5906 ACDB C937 BD11 3717 http://redhat.com/ - - - - http://pfrields.fedorapeople.org/ irc.freenode.net: stickster @ #fedora-docs, #fedora-devel, #fredlug From mclasen at redhat.com Wed Jul 15 21:51:39 2009 From: mclasen at redhat.com (Matthias Clasen) Date: Wed, 15 Jul 2009 17:51:39 -0400 Subject: Cleaning up the Administration menu on the live cd In-Reply-To: <20090715194058.GD8801@localhost.localdomain> References: <1246916303.1600.7.camel@planemask> <1246916391.27685.28.camel@localhost.localdomain> <20090715194058.GD8801@localhost.localdomain> Message-ID: <1247694699.1624.1.camel@planemask> On Wed, 2009-07-15 at 15:40 -0400, Paul W. Frields wrote: > Has anyone talked with the s-c-firewall maintainer and other > interested parties to see what could be done to change the model by > which it works? There have been discussions, but they did not go very well. From poelstra at redhat.com Tue Jul 14 22:58:33 2009 From: poelstra at redhat.com (John Poelstra) Date: Tue, 14 Jul 2009 15:58:33 -0700 Subject: Fedora 12 Features Needing Updates Message-ID: <4A5D0D99.4040409@redhat.com> Hello Fedora 12 Feature Owners, As a follow-up to my previous request, we still have a few feature pages that have not been updated recently. Please update your page as soon as possible. Please make sure the information listed on your feature page is current and then update the "Last Updated" date--even if you haven't changed any information on the page. This is a simple way for us to know that your page is current. If any of the features below remain unchanged by this Thursday, July 16, 2009, I will send them on to FESCo for their reconsideration. https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Features/DebuginfoFS https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Features/DisplayPort https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Features/Dracut https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Features/Empathy https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Features/KDE43 https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Features/liblvm https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Features/MoreNetworkManagerMobileBroadband https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Features/Multiseat https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Features/NFSClientIPv6 https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Features/SystemtapStaticProbes https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Features/VirtgPXE https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Features/XZRpmPayloads https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Features/F12X86Support https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Features/VirtioSerial https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Features/XI2 Thank you, John From mclasen at redhat.com Fri Jul 17 16:50:43 2009 From: mclasen at redhat.com (Matthias Clasen) Date: Fri, 17 Jul 2009 12:50:43 -0400 Subject: Fit and Finish test day: batteries and suspend Message-ID: <1247849443.1614.8.camel@planemask> Just a reminder: The next 'fit and finish' test day will take place on July 21, which is next Tuesday. We want to look at issues with the user experience around batteries, suspend and power management in general. https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Test_Day:2009-07-21_Fit_and_Finish:Batteries_and_Suspend Please join us in #fedora-fit-and-finish. Matthias From hughsient at gmail.com Fri Jul 17 19:07:48 2009 From: hughsient at gmail.com (Richard Hughes) Date: Fri, 17 Jul 2009 20:07:48 +0100 Subject: Fit and Finish test day: batteries and suspend In-Reply-To: <8204a4fe0907171035o6cf0c7fei931b02d99ca4b69e@mail.gmail.com> References: <1247849443.1614.8.camel@planemask> <8204a4fe0907171035o6cf0c7fei931b02d99ca4b69e@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <15e53e180907171207i1a18a0c6nae19ee3965f564a9@mail.gmail.com> 2009/7/17 Fulko Hew : > (Personally, I have a little 'service' that disables the power management > on my laptop (on F8), but I haven't found where to execute it when the > laptop comes out of 'suspend'?) Check out pm-utils, it allows you do what you want. Richard. From mclasen at redhat.com Sun Jul 19 04:26:04 2009 From: mclasen at redhat.com (Matthias Clasen) Date: Sun, 19 Jul 2009 00:26:04 -0400 Subject: Desktop spin size update Message-ID: <1247977564.2437.23.camel@planemask> A quick update on the size of the desktop spin: I have written a patch to split libgweather into a bazillion langpacks, you can see it here: http://people.redhat.com/mclasen/split-libgweather.patch http://people.redhat.com/mclasen/comps-libgweather.patch I am not entirely happy with this approach, but it certainly solves the size problem. An x86_64 iso that I build with that reduced libgweather came at 692M. What I don't like about it: - It creates some 80 new packages - Some langpacks don't have a matching lang support group in comps There is a number of other pending changes that should give us some space back: - drop libsexy: https://bugzilla.redhat.com/show_bug.cgi?id=509299 - drop ImageMagick: https://bugzilla.redhat.com/show_bug.cgi?id=472103 - drop esound-libs: https://bugzilla.redhat.com/show_bug.cgi?id=492982 - drop some big unneeded files from packages: https://bugzilla.redhat.com/show_bug.cgi?id=512502 https://bugzilla.redhat.com/show_bug.cgi?id=463773 - complete the PolicyKit 1 ports and drop PolicyKit 0.9 - drop gst-mixer again - maybe drop krb5-auth-dialog Matthias From mclasen at redhat.com Tue Jul 21 04:47:45 2009 From: mclasen at redhat.com (Matthias Clasen) Date: Tue, 21 Jul 2009 00:47:45 -0400 Subject: Some more livecd package set adjustments Message-ID: <1248151666.1510.28.camel@planemask> I'd like to drop krb5-auth-dialog from the live cd. Some reasons: - It doesn't seem to be very relevant on the live cd - It recently started adding another entry to our already overlong preferences menu We should also not forget to drop gst-mixer again, but that can probably wait until Bastien lands his sound capplet enhancements. Comments ? Matthias From mclasen at redhat.com Wed Jul 22 16:19:41 2009 From: mclasen at redhat.com (Matthias Clasen) Date: Wed, 22 Jul 2009 12:19:41 -0400 Subject: Batteries and Suspend Test day summary Message-ID: <1248279581.1693.9.camel@planemask> The 'Fit and Finish' test day about batteries and suspend took place yesterday. Thanks to everybody who came by and helped us find, fix and test things ! If you could not make it, our test cases are still available here: http://www.fedoraproject.org/wiki/Test_Day:2009-07-21_Fit_and_Finish:Batteries_and_Suspend That page also contains the results of our yesterdays testing efforts, if you are interested. Amazingly, Richard fixed quite a few of the incoming bugs already, while the test day was still ongoing, and people were able to confirm that the fixes are working. Well done! I'll post the date an topic for our next 'Fit and Finish' test day in the next few days. Matthias From hughsient at gmail.com Wed Jul 22 16:50:25 2009 From: hughsient at gmail.com (Richard Hughes) Date: Wed, 22 Jul 2009 17:50:25 +0100 Subject: Batteries and Suspend Test day summary In-Reply-To: <1248279581.1693.9.camel@planemask> References: <1248279581.1693.9.camel@planemask> Message-ID: <15e53e180907220950v7b947df3t96d2fbbd71803791@mail.gmail.com> 2009/7/22 Matthias Clasen : > Amazingly, Richard fixed quite a few of the incoming bugs already, while > the test day was still ongoing, and people were able to confirm that the > fixes are working. Well done! Sure, and in mutual back-patting, Matthias did a great job coordinating things. I'm sure gnome-power-manager and DeviceKit-power will be in better shape thanks to this test day. Thanks to all of you who opened bugs, and identified issues on IRC. Richard. From hughsient at gmail.com Wed Jul 22 17:07:34 2009 From: hughsient at gmail.com (Richard Hughes) Date: Wed, 22 Jul 2009 18:07:34 +0100 Subject: Batteries and Suspend Test day summary In-Reply-To: <46a038f90907220954p167eec8cnd03ec2781c7aab3c@mail.gmail.com> References: <1248279581.1693.9.camel@planemask> <15e53e180907220950v7b947df3t96d2fbbd71803791@mail.gmail.com> <46a038f90907220954p167eec8cnd03ec2781c7aab3c@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <15e53e180907221007s7394bcfeub9f81bbbc2780993@mail.gmail.com> 2009/7/22 Martin Langhoff : > On Wed, Jul 22, 2009 at 6:50 PM, Richard Hughes wrote: >> 2009/7/22 Matthias Clasen : >>> Amazingly, Richard fixed quite a few of the incoming bugs already, while >>> the test day was still ongoing, and people were able to confirm that the >>> fixes are working. Well done! >> >> Sure, and in mutual back-patting, Matthias did a great job > > Great to hear this is going well. What hardware did you have > available? Any of it with green ears? (Got a shipping address?) We were testing mostly laptops and netbooks. We didn't test any OLPC devices to my knowledge, although I have a B1 and a C1 sitting on my desk right now :-) Richard. From mclasen at redhat.com Wed Jul 22 21:56:23 2009 From: mclasen at redhat.com (Matthias Clasen) Date: Wed, 22 Jul 2009 17:56:23 -0400 Subject: A less cluttered desktop Message-ID: <1248299783.1588.17.camel@planemask> In anticipation of the corresponding upstream change, I have just built a change to the GConf schemas in libgnome to not show icons in menus and buttons by default anymore. This change may take a little while to get used to, but I hope that most people will come around and appreciate the less cluttered desktop. Feedback appreciated. Matthias From hughsient at gmail.com Wed Jul 22 22:17:29 2009 From: hughsient at gmail.com (Richard Hughes) Date: Wed, 22 Jul 2009 23:17:29 +0100 Subject: Batteries and Suspend Test day summary In-Reply-To: <20090722190553.GQ24960@edu.joroinen.fi> References: <1248279581.1693.9.camel@planemask> <20090722190553.GQ24960@edu.joroinen.fi> Message-ID: <15e53e180907221517g225d70c3te68590963798d59f@mail.gmail.com> 2009/7/22 Pasi K?rkk?inen : > He's been trying to identify the problem with powertop, disable services > etc, but hasn't been able to match the battery life of Windows. > Have you guys thought about this? Depends on the hardware. If it's friendly graphics and intel networking, we should compare quite well. If it's a macbook with nvidia graphics and broadcom networking then all bets are off; as we just don't know how to power down the hardware when idle. Richard. From wwoods at redhat.com Thu Jul 23 14:53:25 2009 From: wwoods at redhat.com (Will Woods) Date: Thu, 23 Jul 2009 10:53:25 -0400 Subject: A less cluttered desktop In-Reply-To: <1248299783.1588.17.camel@planemask> References: <1248299783.1588.17.camel@planemask> Message-ID: <1248360805.3111.54.camel@metroid> On Wed, 2009-07-22 at 17:56 -0400, Matthias Clasen wrote: > In anticipation of the corresponding upstream change, I have just built > a change to the GConf schemas in libgnome to not show icons in menus and > buttons by default anymore. > > This change may take a little while to get used to, but I hope that most > people will come around and appreciate the less cluttered desktop. > > > Feedback appreciated. I bet the first question people will ask is: "But how do I turn them back on? I LOVE THE MENU ICONS SO MUCH!" So probably this will need a release note that explains how to turn it back on if desired. I'm guessing that's: System->Preferences->Appearance, Interface tab, "Show icons in menus" Is that right? -w From mclasen at redhat.com Thu Jul 23 15:15:28 2009 From: mclasen at redhat.com (Matthias Clasen) Date: Thu, 23 Jul 2009 11:15:28 -0400 Subject: A less cluttered desktop In-Reply-To: <1248360805.3111.54.camel@metroid> References: <1248299783.1588.17.camel@planemask> <1248360805.3111.54.camel@metroid> Message-ID: <1248362128.1644.2.camel@planemask> On Thu, 2009-07-23 at 10:53 -0400, Will Woods wrote: > On Wed, 2009-07-22 at 17:56 -0400, Matthias Clasen wrote: > > In anticipation of the corresponding upstream change, I have just built > > a change to the GConf schemas in libgnome to not show icons in menus and > > buttons by default anymore. > > > > This change may take a little while to get used to, but I hope that most > > people will come around and appreciate the less cluttered desktop. > > > > > > Feedback appreciated. > > I bet the first question people will ask is: > > "But how do I turn them back on? I LOVE THE MENU ICONS SO MUCH!" > > So probably this will need a release note that explains how to turn it > back on if desired. I'm guessing that's: > > System->Preferences->Appearance, Interface tab, "Show icons in menus" > > Is that right? Yes, that is right. There is no checkbox for the button icons right now, but there are gconf keys for both: /desktop/gnome/interface/buttons_have_icons /desktop/gnome/interface/menus_have_icons I will see if I can get that into the release notes. From sundaram at fedoraproject.org Thu Jul 23 15:57:41 2009 From: sundaram at fedoraproject.org (Rahul Sundaram) Date: Thu, 23 Jul 2009 21:27:41 +0530 Subject: A less cluttered desktop In-Reply-To: <1248362128.1644.2.camel@planemask> References: <1248299783.1588.17.camel@planemask> <1248360805.3111.54.camel@metroid> <1248362128.1644.2.camel@planemask> Message-ID: <4A688875.6050407@fedoraproject.org> On 07/23/2009 08:45 PM, Matthias Clasen wrote: > On Thu, 2009-07-23 at 10:53 -0400, Will Woods wrote: >> >> System->Preferences->Appearance, Interface tab, "Show icons in menus" >> >> Is that right? > > Yes, that is right. > > There is no checkbox for the button icons right now, but there are gconf > keys for both: > > /desktop/gnome/interface/buttons_have_icons > /desktop/gnome/interface/menus_have_icons > > I will see if I can get that into the release notes. http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Fedora_12_Alpha_release_notes if you want to add some notes. If you don't, I will add it up later. Rahul From mclasen at redhat.com Thu Jul 23 16:31:32 2009 From: mclasen at redhat.com (Matthias Clasen) Date: Thu, 23 Jul 2009 12:31:32 -0400 Subject: A less cluttered desktop In-Reply-To: <4A688875.6050407@fedoraproject.org> References: <1248299783.1588.17.camel@planemask> <1248360805.3111.54.camel@metroid> <1248362128.1644.2.camel@planemask> <4A688875.6050407@fedoraproject.org> Message-ID: <1248366692.1644.3.camel@planemask> On Thu, 2009-07-23 at 21:27 +0530, Rahul Sundaram wrote: > On 07/23/2009 08:45 PM, Matthias Clasen wrote: > > On Thu, 2009-07-23 at 10:53 -0400, Will Woods wrote: > >> > >> System->Preferences->Appearance, Interface tab, "Show icons in menus" > >> > >> Is that right? > > > > Yes, that is right. > > > > There is no checkbox for the button icons right now, but there are gconf > > keys for both: > > > > /desktop/gnome/interface/buttons_have_icons > > /desktop/gnome/interface/menus_have_icons > > > > I will see if I can get that into the release notes. > > http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Fedora_12_Alpha_release_notes if you want > to add some notes. If you don't, I will add it up later. Thanks Rahul, I've added a short note. From stickster at gmail.com Thu Jul 23 22:00:26 2009 From: stickster at gmail.com (Paul W. Frields) Date: Thu, 23 Jul 2009 18:00:26 -0400 Subject: Question about netbook screens Message-ID: <20090723220026.GJ3592@localhost.localdomain> Hi Desktop SIG, When I talked to someone with an EeePC today, he told me he wanted to have Fedora 11 but had to install another OS, because Fedora would sometimes draw windows whose action areas weren't on the screen, so he couldn't make button selections. I don't have a netbook, so I don't know if or how this problem might be solved, and was hoping someone could tell me. -- Paul W. Frields http://paul.frields.org/ gpg fingerprint: 3DA6 A0AC 6D58 FEC4 0233 5906 ACDB C937 BD11 3717 http://redhat.com/ - - - - http://pfrields.fedorapeople.org/ irc.freenode.net: stickster @ #fedora-docs, #fedora-devel, #fredlug From bnocera at redhat.com Thu Jul 23 22:40:35 2009 From: bnocera at redhat.com (Bastien Nocera) Date: Thu, 23 Jul 2009 23:40:35 +0100 Subject: Question about netbook screens In-Reply-To: <20090723220026.GJ3592@localhost.localdomain> References: <20090723220026.GJ3592@localhost.localdomain> Message-ID: <1248388835.23466.5042.camel@localhost.localdomain> On Thu, 2009-07-23 at 18:00 -0400, Paul W. Frields wrote: > Hi Desktop SIG, > > When I talked to someone with an EeePC today, he told me he wanted to > have Fedora 11 but had to install another OS, because Fedora would > sometimes draw windows whose action areas weren't on the screen, so he > couldn't make button selections. I don't have a netbook, so I don't > know if or how this problem might be solved, and was hoping someone > could tell me. Probably an EeePC 7" where running a "normal" desktop is completely absurd. I don't think that any other distros are making particular changes to make that easier. Things like disabling the text in toolbars, or selecting smaller fonts would certainly help. But, really, 800x480?! That's even smaller than the 800x600 that people try not to break. From jonstanley at gmail.com Fri Jul 24 00:42:19 2009 From: jonstanley at gmail.com (Jon Stanley) Date: Thu, 23 Jul 2009 20:42:19 -0400 Subject: Question about netbook screens In-Reply-To: <1248388835.23466.5042.camel@localhost.localdomain> References: <20090723220026.GJ3592@localhost.localdomain> <1248388835.23466.5042.camel@localhost.localdomain> Message-ID: On Thu, Jul 23, 2009 at 6:40 PM, Bastien Nocera wrote: > But, really, 800x480?! That's even smaller than the 800x600 that people > try not to break. Mine is 1024x600 and seems to be OK. I use Xfce on it though. From bnocera at redhat.com Fri Jul 24 00:52:15 2009 From: bnocera at redhat.com (Bastien Nocera) Date: Fri, 24 Jul 2009 01:52:15 +0100 Subject: Question about netbook screens In-Reply-To: References: <20090723220026.GJ3592@localhost.localdomain> <1248388835.23466.5042.camel@localhost.localdomain> Message-ID: <1248396735.23466.5176.camel@localhost.localdomain> On Thu, 2009-07-23 at 20:42 -0400, Jon Stanley wrote: > On Thu, Jul 23, 2009 at 6:40 PM, Bastien Nocera wrote: > > > But, really, 800x480?! That's even smaller than the 800x600 that people > > try not to break. > > Mine is 1024x600 and seems to be OK. I use Xfce on it though. In my limited experience, the 1024x576 on my netbook works decently as well. At least that's close enough to 600 that you can bug people about problems. From mclasen at redhat.com Fri Jul 24 01:14:38 2009 From: mclasen at redhat.com (Matthias Clasen) Date: Thu, 23 Jul 2009 21:14:38 -0400 Subject: Question about netbook screens In-Reply-To: <20090723220026.GJ3592@localhost.localdomain> References: <20090723220026.GJ3592@localhost.localdomain> Message-ID: <1248398078.1561.3.camel@planemask> On Thu, 2009-07-23 at 18:00 -0400, Paul W. Frields wrote: > Hi Desktop SIG, > > When I talked to someone with an EeePC today, he told me he wanted to > have Fedora 11 but had to install another OS, because Fedora would > sometimes draw windows whose action areas weren't on the screen, so he > couldn't make button selections. I don't have a netbook, so I don't > know if or how this problem might be solved, and was hoping someone > could tell me. One trick that is useful to know when dealing with the inadvertent oversized dialog is that metacity lets you move a window even when you can't see the titlebar, via Alt-F7 or Alt-Button1. From stickster at gmail.com Fri Jul 24 04:08:21 2009 From: stickster at gmail.com (Paul W. Frields) Date: Fri, 24 Jul 2009 00:08:21 -0400 Subject: Question about netbook screens In-Reply-To: <1248388835.23466.5042.camel@localhost.localdomain> References: <20090723220026.GJ3592@localhost.localdomain> <1248388835.23466.5042.camel@localhost.localdomain> Message-ID: <20090724040821.GV3592@localhost.localdomain> On Thu, Jul 23, 2009 at 11:40:35PM +0100, Bastien Nocera wrote: > On Thu, 2009-07-23 at 18:00 -0400, Paul W. Frields wrote: > > Hi Desktop SIG, > > > > When I talked to someone with an EeePC today, he told me he wanted to > > have Fedora 11 but had to install another OS, because Fedora would > > sometimes draw windows whose action areas weren't on the screen, so he > > couldn't make button selections. I don't have a netbook, so I don't > > know if or how this problem might be solved, and was hoping someone > > could tell me. > > Probably an EeePC 7" where running a "normal" desktop is completely > absurd. I don't think that any other distros are making particular > changes to make that easier. Yeah, I don't know about standard desktop editions of common distros, but he showed me the unit, running a netbook remix that made a specific change that completely alters the desktop. It hides the normal desktop in favor of a menu driven system, and windows that are opened are force-maximized (sorry if that's the wrong term). I'm not suggesting that's the right way to go, just wondering if there's any potential solution so the standard Fedora runs more acceptably for those users. > Things like disabling the text in toolbars, or selecting smaller fonts > would certainly help. Strangely enough, one of the more interesting comments I got from a couple people was that fonts were legible on their netbooks in Fedora 11 (unlike other distros they had tried) because of larger fonts! > But, really, 800x480?! That's even smaller than the 800x600 that people > try not to break. Sure -- I'm not saying it's not a difficult problem. If we had to have some sort of special experience for netbooks, would it be possible to customize that into something like a schema package that reset a bunch of normal defaults? -- Paul W. Frields http://paul.frields.org/ gpg fingerprint: 3DA6 A0AC 6D58 FEC4 0233 5906 ACDB C937 BD11 3717 http://redhat.com/ - - - - http://pfrields.fedorapeople.org/ irc.freenode.net: stickster @ #fedora-docs, #fedora-devel, #fredlug From nicu_fedora at nicubunu.ro Fri Jul 24 06:11:30 2009 From: nicu_fedora at nicubunu.ro (Nicu Buculei) Date: Fri, 24 Jul 2009 09:11:30 +0300 Subject: Question about netbook screens In-Reply-To: <20090723220026.GJ3592@localhost.localdomain> References: <20090723220026.GJ3592@localhost.localdomain> Message-ID: <4A695092.3090602@nicubunu.ro> On 07/24/2009 01:00 AM, Paul W. Frields wrote: > > When I talked to someone with an EeePC today, he told me he wanted to > have Fedora 11 but had to install another OS, because Fedora would > sometimes draw windows whose action areas weren't on the screen, so he > couldn't make button selections. I don't have a netbook, so I don't > know if or how this problem might be solved, and was hoping someone > could tell me. Yes, his happen sometimes on my 1024x600 screen, an example is the "Account Settings" in Thunderbird. Another example is Inkscape when before 0.47 (we have a development snapshot in F11 which finally works OK) it was not possible to fit the *main window* on the small screen. But in most of the cases I find a normal GNOME desktop (with both panels, at the top and bottom) usable enough that I don't want anything else. -- nicu :: http://nicubunu.ro :: http://nicubunu.blogspot.com/ photography: http://photoblog.nicubunu.ro/ my Fedora stuff: http://fedora.nicubunu.ro/ From bnocera at redhat.com Fri Jul 24 09:14:26 2009 From: bnocera at redhat.com (Bastien Nocera) Date: Fri, 24 Jul 2009 10:14:26 +0100 Subject: Question about netbook screens In-Reply-To: <20090724040821.GV3592@localhost.localdomain> References: <20090723220026.GJ3592@localhost.localdomain> <1248388835.23466.5042.camel@localhost.localdomain> <20090724040821.GV3592@localhost.localdomain> Message-ID: <1248426866.19899.75.camel@snoogens.fab.redhat.com> On Fri, 2009-07-24 at 00:08 -0400, Paul W. Frields wrote: > On Thu, Jul 23, 2009 at 11:40:35PM +0100, Bastien Nocera wrote: > > On Thu, 2009-07-23 at 18:00 -0400, Paul W. Frields wrote: > > > Hi Desktop SIG, > > > > > > When I talked to someone with an EeePC today, he told me he wanted to > > > have Fedora 11 but had to install another OS, because Fedora would > > > sometimes draw windows whose action areas weren't on the screen, so he > > > couldn't make button selections. I don't have a netbook, so I don't > > > know if or how this problem might be solved, and was hoping someone > > > could tell me. > > > > Probably an EeePC 7" where running a "normal" desktop is completely > > absurd. I don't think that any other distros are making particular > > changes to make that easier. > > Yeah, I don't know about standard desktop editions of common distros, > but he showed me the unit, running a netbook remix that made a > specific change that completely alters the desktop. It hides the > normal desktop in favor of a menu driven system, and windows that are > opened are force-maximized (sorry if that's the wrong term). I'm not > suggesting that's the right way to go, just wondering if there's > any potential solution so the standard Fedora runs more acceptably for > those users. That's what the Ubuntu Netbook Remix uses (a row and grid menu system and "maximus" which maximises all the windows, and gets it wrong very often). > > Things like disabling the text in toolbars, or selecting smaller fonts > > would certainly help. > > Strangely enough, one of the more interesting comments I got from > a couple people was that fonts were legible on their netbooks in > Fedora 11 (unlike other distros they had tried) because of larger > fonts! > > > But, really, 800x480?! That's even smaller than the 800x600 that people > > try not to break. > > Sure -- I'm not saying it's not a difficult problem. If we had to > have some sort of special experience for netbooks, would it be > possible to customize that into something like a schema package that > reset a bunch of normal defaults? The story here is probably the Moblin spin that Peter Robinson is helping build. Right now, he's busy getting the packages into the distro. From johannbg at hi.is Fri Jul 24 14:17:11 2009 From: johannbg at hi.is (=?ISO-8859-1?Q?=22J=F3hann_B=2E_Gu=F0mundsson=22?=) Date: Fri, 24 Jul 2009 14:17:11 +0000 Subject: A less cluttered desktop In-Reply-To: <1248299783.1588.17.camel@planemask> References: <1248299783.1588.17.camel@planemask> Message-ID: <4A69C267.1040102@hi.is> On 07/22/2009 09:56 PM, Matthias Clasen wrote: > In anticipation of the corresponding upstream change, I have just built > a change to the GConf schemas in libgnome to not show icons in menus and > buttons by default anymore. > > This change may take a little while to get used to, but I hope that most > people will come around and appreciate the less cluttered desktop. > > > Feedback appreciated I expected this change to be more a to shock to the end user than it turned out to be.The feed back I received was that having icons in "Places" felt out of place to the rest of the menu. The only solutions to that problem when asked was to either bring back all the icons or move either applications in "Places" or place "Places" in whole under "Applications" or "System" so the path to it would be Application --> Places or System --> Places. Hope this feedback is somewhat helpful JBG -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: johannbg.vcf Type: text/x-vcard Size: 356 bytes Desc: not available URL: From wwoods at redhat.com Fri Jul 24 16:49:24 2009 From: wwoods at redhat.com (Will Woods) Date: Fri, 24 Jul 2009 12:49:24 -0400 Subject: A less cluttered desktop In-Reply-To: <4A69C267.1040102@hi.is> References: <1248299783.1588.17.camel@planemask> <4A69C267.1040102@hi.is> Message-ID: <1248454164.3111.130.camel@metroid> On Fri, 2009-07-24 at 14:17 +0000, "J?hann B. Gu?mundsson" wrote: > I expected this change to be more a to shock to the end user than it > turned out to be.The feed back I received was that having icons in > "Places" felt out of place to the rest of the menu. The only solutions > to that problem when asked was to either bring back all the icons or > move either applications in "Places" or place "Places" in whole under > "Applications" or "System" so the path to it would be Application --> > Places or System --> Places. I'm trying out the new default gconf settings in F11 (not Rawhide) and - as expected - I don't have any icons in the File/Edit/... menus for each window. Yay, menus are much snappier. On the downside, there's also no icons in Applications / Places / System. So does Rawhide GNOME handle them differently? I can't imagine that losing icons in the panel menu (or having them only in Places as Johann describes) is the intended behavior. -w From wwoods at redhat.com Fri Jul 24 18:09:49 2009 From: wwoods at redhat.com (Will Woods) Date: Fri, 24 Jul 2009 14:09:49 -0400 Subject: A less cluttered desktop In-Reply-To: <1248454164.3111.130.camel@metroid> References: <1248299783.1588.17.camel@planemask> <4A69C267.1040102@hi.is> <1248454164.3111.130.camel@metroid> Message-ID: <1248458989.3119.47.camel@metroid> On Fri, 2009-07-24 at 12:49 -0400, Will Woods wrote: > On the downside, there's also no icons in Applications / Places / > System. So does Rawhide GNOME handle them differently? I can't imagine > that losing icons in the panel menu (or having them only in Places as > Johann describes) is the intended behavior. To answer my own question, here's the original bug report: http://bugzilla.gnome.org/show_bug.cgi?id=557469 Comments there indicate that the Applications menu is still intended to have icons. The proposed guideline in comment #1 says (in part): "A menu item should have an icon only if it represents a dynamic object such as an application, file, device, or user ..." So yeah, that will probably be fixed once someone updates gnome-panel (or whatever component that menu comes from). -w From mclasen at redhat.com Fri Jul 24 18:49:07 2009 From: mclasen at redhat.com (Matthias Clasen) Date: Fri, 24 Jul 2009 14:49:07 -0400 Subject: A less cluttered desktop In-Reply-To: <1248458989.3119.47.camel@metroid> References: <1248299783.1588.17.camel@planemask> <4A69C267.1040102@hi.is> <1248454164.3111.130.camel@metroid> <1248458989.3119.47.camel@metroid> Message-ID: <1248461347.16860.2.camel@planemask> On Fri, 2009-07-24 at 14:09 -0400, Will Woods wrote: > On Fri, 2009-07-24 at 12:49 -0400, Will Woods wrote: > > > On the downside, there's also no icons in Applications / Places / > > System. So does Rawhide GNOME handle them differently? I can't imagine > > that losing icons in the panel menu (or having them only in Places as > > Johann describes) is the intended behavior. > > To answer my own question, here's the original bug report: > http://bugzilla.gnome.org/show_bug.cgi?id=557469 > > Comments there indicate that the Applications menu is still intended to > have icons. The proposed guideline in comment #1 says (in part): > > "A menu item should have an icon only if it represents a dynamic object > such as an application, file, device, or user ..." > > So yeah, that will probably be fixed once someone updates gnome-panel > (or whatever component that menu comes from). > The panel in rawhide has the intended behaviour. You get icons for applications, files, devices, bookmarks, but not for categories, etc. The one potentially confusing thing here is that the panel menu icons react to the settings at all (ie category icons come back if you turn menu icons on). Maybe we want to stop them from doing that. From cra at WPI.EDU Sat Jul 25 03:07:58 2009 From: cra at WPI.EDU (Chuck Anderson) Date: Fri, 24 Jul 2009 23:07:58 -0400 Subject: A less cluttered desktop In-Reply-To: <1248299783.1588.17.camel@planemask> References: <1248299783.1588.17.camel@planemask> Message-ID: <20090725030758.GA30729@angus.ind.WPI.EDU> On Wed, Jul 22, 2009 at 05:56:23PM -0400, Matthias Clasen wrote: > In anticipation of the corresponding upstream change, I have just built > a change to the GConf schemas in libgnome to not show icons in menus and > buttons by default anymore. > > This change may take a little while to get used to, but I hope that most > people will come around and appreciate the less cluttered desktop. > > > Feedback appreciated. Where can I find the rationale for this change? From drago01 at gmail.com Sat Jul 25 10:04:55 2009 From: drago01 at gmail.com (drago01) Date: Sat, 25 Jul 2009 12:04:55 +0200 Subject: A less cluttered desktop In-Reply-To: <1248461347.16860.2.camel@planemask> References: <1248299783.1588.17.camel@planemask> <4A69C267.1040102@hi.is> <1248454164.3111.130.camel@metroid> <1248458989.3119.47.camel@metroid> <1248461347.16860.2.camel@planemask> Message-ID: On Fri, Jul 24, 2009 at 8:49 PM, Matthias Clasen wrote: > On Fri, 2009-07-24 at 14:09 -0400, Will Woods wrote: >> On Fri, 2009-07-24 at 12:49 -0400, Will Woods wrote: >> >> > On the downside, there's also no icons in Applications / Places / >> > System. So does Rawhide GNOME handle them differently? I can't imagine >> > that losing icons in the panel menu (or having them only in Places as >> > Johann describes) is the intended behavior. >> >> To answer my own question, here's the original bug report: >> http://bugzilla.gnome.org/show_bug.cgi?id=557469 >> >> Comments there indicate that the Applications menu is still intended to >> have icons. The proposed guideline in comment #1 says (in part): >> >> "A menu item should have an icon only if it represents a dynamic object >> such as an application, file, device, or user ..." >> >> So yeah, that will probably be fixed once someone updates gnome-panel >> (or whatever component that menu comes from). >> > > The panel in rawhide has the intended behaviour. You get icons for > applications, files, devices, bookmarks, but not for categories, etc. > > The one potentially confusing thing here is that the panel menu icons > react to the settings at all (ie category icons come back if you turn > menu icons on). Maybe we want to stop them from doing that. Well, would it be possible to add a separate gconf key for it? I tested the "no icons mode" but well it looks like crap if you are used to the "icon mode". From mike at miketc.net Sat Jul 25 13:06:08 2009 From: mike at miketc.net (Mike Chambers) Date: Sat, 25 Jul 2009 08:06:08 -0500 Subject: A less cluttered desktop In-Reply-To: References: <1248299783.1588.17.camel@planemask> <4A69C267.1040102@hi.is> <1248454164.3111.130.camel@metroid> <1248458989.3119.47.camel@metroid> <1248461347.16860.2.camel@planemask> Message-ID: <1248527168.2036.1.camel@scrappy.miketc.net> On Sat, 2009-07-25 at 12:04 +0200, drago01 wrote: > Well, would it be possible to add a separate gconf key for it? > I tested the "no icons mode" but well it looks like crap if you are > used to the "icon mode". +1 as that was a WHOLE lot different and actually not as good looking. I hope maybe some fine tuning to the menu (maybe spaceing, or fonts or something) will be done after removal? -- Mike Chambers Madisonville, KY Fedora Project - Bugzapper, Tester, User, etc.. miketc302 at fedoraproject.org From mclasen at redhat.com Sun Jul 26 01:17:12 2009 From: mclasen at redhat.com (Matthias Clasen) Date: Sat, 25 Jul 2009 21:17:12 -0400 Subject: A less cluttered desktop In-Reply-To: References: <1248299783.1588.17.camel@planemask> <4A69C267.1040102@hi.is> <1248454164.3111.130.camel@metroid> <1248458989.3119.47.camel@metroid> <1248461347.16860.2.camel@planemask> Message-ID: <1248571032.1432.1.camel@planemask> On Sat, 2009-07-25 at 12:04 +0200, drago01 wrote: > > Well, would it be possible to add a separate gconf key for it? > I tested the "no icons mode" but well it looks like crap if you are > used to the "icon mode". > Can you be more specific here ? What is 'it' ? And what looks like crap ? Are you talking about the panel menu or menus in general ? From drago01 at gmail.com Sun Jul 26 07:52:13 2009 From: drago01 at gmail.com (drago01) Date: Sun, 26 Jul 2009 09:52:13 +0200 Subject: A less cluttered desktop In-Reply-To: <1248571032.1432.1.camel@planemask> References: <1248299783.1588.17.camel@planemask> <4A69C267.1040102@hi.is> <1248454164.3111.130.camel@metroid> <1248458989.3119.47.camel@metroid> <1248461347.16860.2.camel@planemask> <1248571032.1432.1.camel@planemask> Message-ID: On Sun, Jul 26, 2009 at 3:17 AM, Matthias Clasen wrote: > On Sat, 2009-07-25 at 12:04 +0200, drago01 wrote: > >> >> Well, would it be possible to add a separate gconf key for it? >> I tested the "no icons mode" but well it looks like crap if you are >> used to the "icon mode". >> > > Can you be more specific here ? What is 'it' ? And what looks like > crap ? Are you talking about the panel menu or menus in general ? "It" = panel menu. Well I was talking about the whole desktop experience, having no menu/button icons somehow fells "odd" (ie. for me it looks like crap), but this is a pure subjective thing, because I am used to it for years. (windows use no menu/button icons except for the "start menu" and people are not complaining). From ajax at redhat.com Mon Jul 27 14:37:13 2009 From: ajax at redhat.com (Adam Jackson) Date: Mon, 27 Jul 2009 10:37:13 -0400 Subject: Question about netbook screens In-Reply-To: <1248398078.1561.3.camel@planemask> References: <20090723220026.GJ3592@localhost.localdomain> <1248398078.1561.3.camel@planemask> Message-ID: <1248705433.5139.30.camel@atropine.boston.devel.redhat.com> On Thu, 2009-07-23 at 21:14 -0400, Matthias Clasen wrote: > On Thu, 2009-07-23 at 18:00 -0400, Paul W. Frields wrote: > > Hi Desktop SIG, > > > > When I talked to someone with an EeePC today, he told me he wanted to > > have Fedora 11 but had to install another OS, because Fedora would > > sometimes draw windows whose action areas weren't on the screen, so he > > couldn't make button selections. I don't have a netbook, so I don't > > know if or how this problem might be solved, and was hoping someone > > could tell me. > > One trick that is useful to know when dealing with the inadvertent > oversized dialog is that metacity lets you move a window even when you > can't see the titlebar, via Alt-F7 or Alt-Button1. At one point, this would not let you move the titlebar off the top of the screen. I haven't tried with metacity lately; it's certainly true with compiz. - ajax -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: signature.asc Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 197 bytes Desc: This is a digitally signed message part URL: From wwoods at redhat.com Mon Jul 27 14:51:55 2009 From: wwoods at redhat.com (Will Woods) Date: Mon, 27 Jul 2009 14:51:55 +0000 Subject: A less cluttered desktop In-Reply-To: References: <1248299783.1588.17.camel@planemask> <4A69C267.1040102@hi.is> <1248454164.3111.130.camel@metroid> <1248458989.3119.47.camel@metroid> <1248461347.16860.2.camel@planemask> <1248571032.1432.1.camel@planemask> Message-ID: <1248706315.3119.55.camel@metroid> On Sun, 2009-07-26 at 09:52 +0200, drago01 wrote: > On Sun, Jul 26, 2009 at 3:17 AM, Matthias Clasen wrote: > > On Sat, 2009-07-25 at 12:04 +0200, drago01 wrote: > > > >> > >> Well, would it be possible to add a separate gconf key for it? > >> I tested the "no icons mode" but well it looks like crap if you are > >> used to the "icon mode". > >> > > > > Can you be more specific here ? What is 'it' ? And what looks like > > crap ? Are you talking about the panel menu or menus in general ? > > "It" = panel menu. The panel menu is supposed to have icons in it, regardless of the state of /desktop/gnome/interface/menus_have_icons. So if you're not getting icons in your panel menu, it's because your gnome-panel package is too old to know this. F11 won't behave properly here. Ignore it, upgrade to Rawhide, or wait for F12. -w From stickster at gmail.com Mon Jul 27 15:53:12 2009 From: stickster at gmail.com (Paul W. Frields) Date: Mon, 27 Jul 2009 11:53:12 -0400 Subject: Question about netbook screens In-Reply-To: <1248705433.5139.30.camel@atropine.boston.devel.redhat.com> References: <20090723220026.GJ3592@localhost.localdomain> <1248398078.1561.3.camel@planemask> <1248705433.5139.30.camel@atropine.boston.devel.redhat.com> Message-ID: <20090727155312.GO17605@localhost.localdomain> On Mon, Jul 27, 2009 at 10:37:13AM -0400, Adam Jackson wrote: > On Thu, 2009-07-23 at 21:14 -0400, Matthias Clasen wrote: > > On Thu, 2009-07-23 at 18:00 -0400, Paul W. Frields wrote: > > > Hi Desktop SIG, > > > > > > When I talked to someone with an EeePC today, he told me he wanted to > > > have Fedora 11 but had to install another OS, because Fedora would > > > sometimes draw windows whose action areas weren't on the screen, so he > > > couldn't make button selections. I don't have a netbook, so I don't > > > know if or how this problem might be solved, and was hoping someone > > > could tell me. > > > > One trick that is useful to know when dealing with the inadvertent > > oversized dialog is that metacity lets you move a window even when you > > can't see the titlebar, via Alt-F7 or Alt-Button1. > > At one point, this would not let you move the titlebar off the top of > the screen. I haven't tried with metacity lately; it's certainly true > with compiz. My "lately" isn't as much so as some :-), but you can move the titlebar off the screen in F-11 metacity. -- Paul W. Frields http://paul.frields.org/ gpg fingerprint: 3DA6 A0AC 6D58 FEC4 0233 5906 ACDB C937 BD11 3717 http://redhat.com/ - - - - http://pfrields.fedorapeople.org/ irc.freenode.net: stickster @ #fedora-docs, #fedora-devel, #fredlug From drago01 at gmail.com Mon Jul 27 15:55:05 2009 From: drago01 at gmail.com (drago01) Date: Mon, 27 Jul 2009 17:55:05 +0200 Subject: A less cluttered desktop In-Reply-To: <1248706315.3119.55.camel@metroid> References: <1248299783.1588.17.camel@planemask> <4A69C267.1040102@hi.is> <1248454164.3111.130.camel@metroid> <1248458989.3119.47.camel@metroid> <1248461347.16860.2.camel@planemask> <1248571032.1432.1.camel@planemask> <1248706315.3119.55.camel@metroid> Message-ID: On Mon, Jul 27, 2009 at 4:51 PM, Will Woods wrote: > On Sun, 2009-07-26 at 09:52 +0200, drago01 wrote: >> On Sun, Jul 26, 2009 at 3:17 AM, Matthias Clasen wrote: >> > On Sat, 2009-07-25 at 12:04 +0200, drago01 wrote: >> > >> >> >> >> Well, would it be possible to add a separate gconf key for it? >> >> I tested the "no icons mode" but well it looks like crap if you are >> >> used to the "icon mode". >> >> >> > >> > Can you be more specific here ? What is 'it' ? And what looks like >> > crap ? Are you talking about the panel menu or menus in general ? >> >> "It" = panel menu. > > The panel menu is supposed to have icons in it, regardless of the state > of /desktop/gnome/interface/menus_have_icons. > > So if you're not getting icons in your panel menu, it's because your > gnome-panel package is too old to know this. F11 won't behave properly > here. Ignore it, upgrade to Rawhide, or wait for F12. My comment was directed at "The one potentially confusing thing here is that the panel menu icons react to the settings at all (ie category icons come back if you turn menu icons on). Maybe we want to stop them from doing that." which means "make it always use no category icons" From mclasen at redhat.com Mon Jul 27 16:34:52 2009 From: mclasen at redhat.com (Matthias Clasen) Date: Mon, 27 Jul 2009 12:34:52 -0400 Subject: A less cluttered desktop In-Reply-To: References: <1248299783.1588.17.camel@planemask> <4A69C267.1040102@hi.is> <1248454164.3111.130.camel@metroid> <1248458989.3119.47.camel@metroid> <1248461347.16860.2.camel@planemask> <1248571032.1432.1.camel@planemask> <1248706315.3119.55.camel@metroid> Message-ID: <1248712492.1535.30.camel@planemask> On Mon, 2009-07-27 at 17:55 +0200, drago01 wrote: > On Mon, Jul 27, 2009 at 4:51 PM, Will Woods wrote: > > On Sun, 2009-07-26 at 09:52 +0200, drago01 wrote: > >> On Sun, Jul 26, 2009 at 3:17 AM, Matthias Clasen wrote: > >> > On Sat, 2009-07-25 at 12:04 +0200, drago01 wrote: > >> > > >> >> > >> >> Well, would it be possible to add a separate gconf key for it? > >> >> I tested the "no icons mode" but well it looks like crap if you are > >> >> used to the "icon mode". > >> >> > >> > > >> > Can you be more specific here ? What is 'it' ? And what looks like > >> > crap ? Are you talking about the panel menu or menus in general ? > >> > >> "It" = panel menu. > > > > The panel menu is supposed to have icons in it, regardless of the state > > of /desktop/gnome/interface/menus_have_icons. > > > > So if you're not getting icons in your panel menu, it's because your > > gnome-panel package is too old to know this. F11 won't behave properly > > here. Ignore it, upgrade to Rawhide, or wait for F12. > > > My comment was directed at "The one potentially confusing thing here > is that the panel menu icons > react to the settings at all (ie category icons come back if you turn > menu icons on). Maybe we want to stop them from doing that." > > which means "make it always use no category icons" > Yes, this is what I was considering. From drago01 at gmail.com Mon Jul 27 16:55:04 2009 From: drago01 at gmail.com (drago01) Date: Mon, 27 Jul 2009 18:55:04 +0200 Subject: A less cluttered desktop In-Reply-To: <1248712492.1535.30.camel@planemask> References: <1248299783.1588.17.camel@planemask> <1248454164.3111.130.camel@metroid> <1248458989.3119.47.camel@metroid> <1248461347.16860.2.camel@planemask> <1248571032.1432.1.camel@planemask> <1248706315.3119.55.camel@metroid> <1248712492.1535.30.camel@planemask> Message-ID: On Mon, Jul 27, 2009 at 6:34 PM, Matthias Clasen wrote: > On Mon, 2009-07-27 at 17:55 +0200, drago01 wrote: >> On Mon, Jul 27, 2009 at 4:51 PM, Will Woods wrote: >> > On Sun, 2009-07-26 at 09:52 +0200, drago01 wrote: >> >> On Sun, Jul 26, 2009 at 3:17 AM, Matthias Clasen wrote: >> >> > On Sat, 2009-07-25 at 12:04 +0200, drago01 wrote: >> >> > >> >> >> >> >> >> Well, would it be possible to add a separate gconf key for it? >> >> >> I tested the "no icons mode" but well it looks like crap if you are >> >> >> used to the "icon mode". >> >> >> >> >> > >> >> > Can you be more specific here ? What is 'it' ? And what looks like >> >> > crap ? Are you talking about the panel menu or menus in general ? >> >> >> >> "It" = panel menu. >> > >> > The panel menu is supposed to have icons in it, regardless of the state >> > of /desktop/gnome/interface/menus_have_icons. >> > >> > So if you're not getting icons in your panel menu, it's because your >> > gnome-panel package is too old to know this. F11 won't behave properly >> > here. Ignore it, upgrade to Rawhide, or wait for F12. >> >> >> My comment was directed at "The one potentially confusing thing here >> is that the panel menu icons >> react to the settings at all (ie category icons come back if you turn >> menu icons on). Maybe we want to stop them from doing that." >> >> which means "make it always use no category icons" >> > > Yes, this is what I was considering. Yes and my suggestion was a separate key for this to make it less confusing,but still preserve the option to have icons for those who want them. From 123mizan at gmail.com Mon Jul 27 23:19:24 2009 From: 123mizan at gmail.com (M Yakub Mizan) Date: Tue, 28 Jul 2009 05:19:24 +0600 Subject: Fedora Desktop Problem With Intel Cards(old) Message-ID: <7fc906ca0907271619q30495a40jbf89ca9309729f84@mail.gmail.com> i have a machine with intel graphics card .fedora runs/installs without any problem . but when i try to start some application it get fuzzy sometime and i see some unnecessary clatter too. is that the problem with kernel update or using wrong acceleration option ?why it happening anyone can explain please? thanks. From ajax at redhat.com Tue Jul 28 13:29:00 2009 From: ajax at redhat.com (Adam Jackson) Date: Tue, 28 Jul 2009 09:29:00 -0400 Subject: Fedora Desktop Problem With Intel Cards(old) In-Reply-To: <7fc906ca0907271619q30495a40jbf89ca9309729f84@mail.gmail.com> References: <7fc906ca0907271619q30495a40jbf89ca9309729f84@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <1248787740.5139.102.camel@atropine.boston.devel.redhat.com> On Tue, 2009-07-28 at 05:19 +0600, M Yakub Mizan wrote: > i have a machine with intel graphics card .fedora runs/installs > without any problem . > but when i try to start some application it get fuzzy sometime and i > see some unnecessary clatter too. > is that the problem with kernel update or using wrong acceleration > option ?why it happening anyone can explain please? Which Intel chip? lspci should tell you. Is there a particular application that triggers this behaviour? Do you have a screenshot or photo of the kind of corruption you see? - ajax -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: signature.asc Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 197 bytes Desc: This is a digitally signed message part URL: From tomkis at hotmail.co.uk Tue Jul 28 13:48:13 2009 From: tomkis at hotmail.co.uk (Tomasz Kisielewski) Date: Tue, 28 Jul 2009 14:48:13 +0100 Subject: Fedora Desktop Problem With Intel Cards(old) In-Reply-To: <1248787740.5139.102.camel@atropine.boston.devel.redhat.com> References: <7fc906ca0907271619q30495a40jbf89ca9309729f84@mail.gmail.com> <1248787740.5139.102.camel@atropine.boston.devel.redhat.com> Message-ID: Hi I have old laptop Packard Bell with intel card, last distro which handled this properly was Ubuntu 8.04 Hardy Heron and Fedora 8, Ubuntu 8.10 and FC 10 were totally unaccteptable, I have no problem with FC 11, except that after I updated to the newest kernel I observe strange behaviour of blende3d, things in panel are displayed on the top of the top of the screen sa well as in usual place ( works OK when desktop effects are enabled!, but I have to doble-click!), some software openGL doesn't start ( panda3d) ,but it might be not connected to Fedora. I observed similiar thing using Ubuntu 9.04 (last release). This distro presented really wierd behaviour, when I extended monitor (xorg.conf configuration virtual screen), blender and panda3d worked fine, but no movie player....just they closed themselve without displaying. only kaffeine worked but only sound no vision(display). On FC 11 even when I use virtual box I have the same problem with display blender3d running on windows XP. I have tried ubuntu IRC, but no help was availble....For now I am more than happy with FC11, still have multiboot laptop with Ubuntu 8.04 partition. If U find solution please e-mail me, I will try to work on it later. Good luck Tom > From: ajax at redhat.com > To: fedora-desktop-list at redhat.com > Date: Tue, 28 Jul 2009 09:29:00 -0400 > Subject: Re: Fedora Desktop Problem With Intel Cards(old) > > On Tue, 2009-07-28 at 05:19 +0600, M Yakub Mizan wrote: > > i have a machine with intel graphics card .fedora runs/installs > > without any problem . > > but when i try to start some application it get fuzzy sometime and i > > see some unnecessary clatter too. > > is that the problem with kernel update or using wrong acceleration > > option ?why it happening anyone can explain please? > > Which Intel chip? lspci should tell you. > > Is there a particular application that triggers this behaviour? Do you > have a screenshot or photo of the kind of corruption you see? > > - ajax _________________________________________________________________ Share your memories online with anyone you want. http://clk.atdmt.com/UKM/go/134665338/direct/01/ -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From frankly3d at gmail.com Wed Jul 29 08:47:22 2009 From: frankly3d at gmail.com (Frank Murphy) Date: Wed, 29 Jul 2009 09:47:22 +0100 Subject: GDM Login Screen Message-ID: <4A700C9A.9000009@gmail.com> Apologies for noise. Google hasn't helped. or main list How can I get rid of "Other" user Will future ugrades\updates remove this by default? -- Regards, Frank jabber | msn | skype: frankly3d http://www.frankly3d.com From mclasen at redhat.com Wed Jul 29 11:43:44 2009 From: mclasen at redhat.com (Matthias Clasen) Date: Wed, 29 Jul 2009 07:43:44 -0400 Subject: GDM Login Screen In-Reply-To: <4A700C9A.9000009@gmail.com> References: <4A700C9A.9000009@gmail.com> Message-ID: <1248867824.1533.1.camel@planemask> On Wed, 2009-07-29 at 09:47 +0100, Frank Murphy wrote: > Apologies for noise. > > Google hasn't helped. > or main list > How can I get rid of "Other" user > Will future ugrades\updates remove this by default? I don't think we can really get rid of it, because we don't show all users in the list, only the most frequent ones. Others with have to click on "Other" to enter their login. Matthias From johannbg at hi.is Wed Jul 29 13:50:56 2009 From: johannbg at hi.is (=?ISO-8859-1?Q?=22J=F3hann_B=2E_Gu=F0mundsson=22?=) Date: Wed, 29 Jul 2009 13:50:56 +0000 Subject: GDM Login Screen In-Reply-To: <1248867824.1533.1.camel@planemask> References: <4A700C9A.9000009@gmail.com> <1248867824.1533.1.camel@planemask> Message-ID: <4A7053C0.9060908@hi.is> On 07/29/2009 11:43 AM, Matthias Clasen wrote: > On Wed, 2009-07-29 at 09:47 +0100, Frank Murphy wrote: > >> Apologies for noise. >> >> Google hasn't helped. >> or main list >> How can I get rid of "Other" user >> Will future ugrades\updates remove this by default? >> > I don't think we can really get rid of it, because we don't show all > users in the list, only the most frequent ones. Others with have to > click on "Other" to enter their login. > > Matthias > > How many users do you think exist on a desktop installed from a livecd I would say no more than four ( parents + 2 children ) more realistic sample only 2 persons or single account ( an couple/individual ) So why not get rid of "other" and show always all created user account.. JBG -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: johannbg.vcf Type: text/x-vcard Size: 356 bytes Desc: not available URL: From nicu_fedora at nicubunu.ro Wed Jul 29 13:56:47 2009 From: nicu_fedora at nicubunu.ro (Nicu Buculei) Date: Wed, 29 Jul 2009 16:56:47 +0300 Subject: GDM Login Screen In-Reply-To: <4A7053C0.9060908@hi.is> References: <4A700C9A.9000009@gmail.com> <1248867824.1533.1.camel@planemask> <4A7053C0.9060908@hi.is> Message-ID: <4A70551F.7060101@nicubunu.ro> On 07/29/2009 04:50 PM, "J?hann B. Gu?mundsson" wrote: > On 07/29/2009 11:43 AM, Matthias Clasen wrote: >>> >> I don't think we can really get rid of it, because we don't show all >> users in the list, only the most frequent ones. Others with have to >> click on "Other" to enter their login. >> > How many users do you think exist on a desktop installed from a livecd I > would say no more than four ( parents + 2 children ) more realistic > sample only 2 persons or single account ( an couple/individual ) So why > not get rid of "other" and show always all created user account.. Maybe not "always", but when the created accounts are less than 4, it make sense to get rid of "other", which is confusing in those cases. -- nicu :: http://nicubunu.ro :: http://nicubunu.blogspot.com/ photography: http://photoblog.nicubunu.ro/ my Fedora stuff: http://fedora.nicubunu.ro/ From frankly3d at gmail.com Wed Jul 29 13:58:02 2009 From: frankly3d at gmail.com (Frank Murphy) Date: Wed, 29 Jul 2009 14:58:02 +0100 Subject: GDM Login Screen In-Reply-To: <4A70551F.7060101@nicubunu.ro> References: <4A700C9A.9000009@gmail.com> <1248867824.1533.1.camel@planemask> <4A7053C0.9060908@hi.is> <4A70551F.7060101@nicubunu.ro> Message-ID: <4A70556A.7040108@gmail.com> On 29/07/09 14:56, Nicu Buculei wrote: > >> How many users do you think exist on a desktop installed from a livecd I >> would say no more than four ( parents + 2 children ) more realistic >> sample only 2 persons or single account ( an couple/individual ) So why >> not get rid of "other" and show always all created user account.. > > Maybe not "always", but when the created accounts are less than 4, it > make sense to get rid of "other", which is confusing in those cases. > +1 From nils at redhat.com Wed Jul 29 14:07:43 2009 From: nils at redhat.com (Nils Philippsen) Date: Wed, 29 Jul 2009 16:07:43 +0200 Subject: Cleaning up the Administration menu on the live cd In-Reply-To: <1246916303.1600.7.camel@planemask> References: <1246916303.1600.7.camel@planemask> Message-ID: <1248876463.16945.25.camel@gibraltar.str.redhat.com> On Mon, 2009-07-06 at 17:38 -0400, Matthias Clasen wrote: > Here is a proposal for a drastic first cut, dropping tools that are > dysfunctional or obsoleted by other modules or of limited use or totally > uninteresting for the target audience of a desktop spin: > > - system-config-boot > - system-config-language > - system-config-lvm > - system-config-network > - system-config-rootpassword > - system-config-selinux > - system-config-services > > After this cut, we'll be left with > - PackageKit stuff > - authconfig > - s-c-firewall > - s-c-printing > - s-c-users > > I fully expect some outcry in reaction to this proposal, but keep in > mind that the tools will still be available for installation, just not > directly on the live cd. Sorry for chiming in late. I think in the long run it would be good if "Install to Hard Drive" let the user add the stuff not needed on live media in a simple way (e.g. "[x] add useful additional software to hard drive" which would for instance run "yum groupupdate" on some basic groups after the live medium has been copied to the harddisk). This way we could really strip the live media of all things usually only used on an installed system (e.g. authconfig, s-c-users as well) and hopefully everybody would be happy. On another note, if anybody decides to drop or supersede something it would be polite to ping the respective maintainers about it -- some people only can participate here from time to time and it's kind of not so motivating if you realize that such discussions have happened or even decided upon while you were busy elsewhere. Thanks, Nils -- Nils Philippsen "Those who would give up Essential Liberty to purchase Red Hat a little Temporary Safety, deserve neither Liberty nils at redhat.com nor Safety." -- Benjamin Franklin, 1759 PGP fingerprint: C4A8 9474 5C4C ADE3 2B8F 656D 47D8 9B65 6951 3011 From vaeood at yahoo.com Wed Jul 29 17:13:22 2009 From: vaeood at yahoo.com (Hristo Petkov) Date: Wed, 29 Jul 2009 10:13:22 -0700 (PDT) Subject: Less cluttered desktop Message-ID: <373982.57504.qm@web111613.mail.gq1.yahoo.com> Hi guys, This issue with the cluttered desktop is neither new nor fedora specific. The problem is to get knowing when to stop 'improving' things on your computer. I personally prefer a little bit older version of the OS so far it is performing well with the applications. Usually most of the applications are not complied with new developments and make problems. If I have to choose between reliability of performance and upgraded functionality I would choose reliability and flowless operation. If something works don't touch it unless it is damaged. Well, it is a personal view and I do not engage anybody with it. Best regards ? -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From 123mizan at gmail.com Thu Jul 30 22:05:55 2009 From: 123mizan at gmail.com (M Yakub Mizan) Date: Fri, 31 Jul 2009 04:05:55 +0600 Subject: Fedora Desktop Problem With Intel Cards(old) In-Reply-To: <1248787740.5139.102.camel@atropine.boston.devel.redhat.com> References: <7fc906ca0907271619q30495a40jbf89ca9309729f84@mail.gmail.com> <1248787740.5139.102.camel@atropine.boston.devel.redhat.com> Message-ID: <7fc906ca0907301505q90abd86waa643390113e1150@mail.gmail.com> Chip: Intel 82845G/GL (onboard) i get rid of this problem by adding nomodeset kernel parameter while booting and noaccel option to xorg.conf ,which i created . but,visualization and video noticeably slower!!! if i use other acceleration method totem crash with gnome and Rhythmbox crash!! is there any real solution ? or i have to buy a new AGP? but,which AGP will work best on linux?any suggestion? (i triend to send screenshots but the mail get larger so the list do not support) On Tue, Jul 28, 2009 at 7:29 PM, Adam Jackson wrote: > On Tue, 2009-07-28 at 05:19 +0600, M Yakub Mizan wrote: >> i have a machine with intel graphics card .fedora runs/installs >> without any problem . >> but when i try to start some application it get fuzzy sometime and i >> see some unnecessary clatter too. >> is that the problem with kernel update or using wrong acceleration >> option ?why it happening anyone can explain please? > > Which Intel chip? ?lspci should tell you. > > Is there a particular application that triggers this behaviour? ?Do you > have a screenshot or photo of the kind of corruption you see? > > - ajax > > -- > Fedora-desktop-list mailing list > Fedora-desktop-list at redhat.com > https://www.redhat.com/mailman/listinfo/fedora-desktop-list > From a.mani.cms at gmail.com Fri Jul 31 00:03:07 2009 From: a.mani.cms at gmail.com (Mani A) Date: Fri, 31 Jul 2009 05:03:07 +0500 Subject: Fedora Desktop Problem With Intel Cards(old) In-Reply-To: <7fc906ca0907301505q90abd86waa643390113e1150@mail.gmail.com> References: <7fc906ca0907271619q30495a40jbf89ca9309729f84@mail.gmail.com> <1248787740.5139.102.camel@atropine.boston.devel.redhat.com> <7fc906ca0907301505q90abd86waa643390113e1150@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <78323d480907301703k37909f7fvd98c8ddb6cb3d227@mail.gmail.com> On Fri, Jul 31, 2009 at 3:05 AM, M Yakub Mizan<123mizan at gmail.com> wrote: > Chip: Intel 82845G/GL (onboard) > i get rid of this problem by adding nomodeset kernel parameter while > booting and noaccel option to xorg.conf ,which i created . > but,visualization and video noticeably slower!!! > if i use other acceleration method totem crash with gnome and Rhythmbox crash!! > is there any real solution ? or i have to buy a new AGP? > but,which AGP ?will work best on linux?any suggestion? > (i triend to send screenshots but the mail get larger so the list do > not support) > See http://linux.die.net/man/4/i810 you need to write a better xorg.conf onboard graphics will always slow things down. Best A. Mani -- A. Mani ASL, CLC, AMS, CMS http://amani.topcities.com http://www.logicamani.co.cc From odmirajkar at gmail.com Mon Jul 20 08:43:53 2009 From: odmirajkar at gmail.com (onkar mirajkar) Date: Mon, 20 Jul 2009 03:43:53 -0500 Subject: help Message-ID: <3492acc30907200143x76eb630ev78d9792a63b06681@mail.gmail.com> Hi all, I am Onkar . I have recently completed my graduation in IT. I would like to help in coding for fedora. I am RHCE can some one sent me list of applications in which i can help. Please note that I have never done kernel programming, but I know C,Java,C++ very well. Thanks & regrads, Onkar -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From myselfjaikishore at yahoo.com Fri Jul 31 04:14:44 2009 From: myselfjaikishore at yahoo.com (JAIKISHORE VERMA) Date: Fri, 31 Jul 2009 09:44:44 +0530 (IST) Subject: help In-Reply-To: <3492acc30907200143x76eb630ev78d9792a63b06681@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <306722.75811.qm@web94909.mail.in2.yahoo.com> Hi onkar, why do not u just join Fedora Developer group. There are lots of projects going on and u will get already developed code and task. all the best. take care --- On Mon, 20/7/09, onkar mirajkar wrote: From: onkar mirajkar Subject: help To: fedora-desktop-list at redhat.com Date: Monday, 20 July, 2009, 2:13 PM Hi all, I am Onkar . I have recently completed my graduation in IT. I would like to help in coding for fedora. I am RHCE can some one sent me list of applications in which i can help. Please note that I have never done kernel programming, but I know C,Java,C++ very well. Thanks & regrads, Onkar -----Inline Attachment Follows----- -- Fedora-desktop-list mailing list Fedora-desktop-list at redhat.com https://www.redhat.com/mailman/listinfo/fedora-desktop-list Looking for local information? Find it on Yahoo! Local http://in.local.yahoo..com/ -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From mclasen at redhat.com Fri Jul 31 19:17:38 2009 From: mclasen at redhat.com (Matthias Clasen) Date: Fri, 31 Jul 2009 15:17:38 -0400 Subject: The default theme for F12 Message-ID: <1249067858.1586.71.camel@planemask> Hey all, we've been discussing the idea of changing the default GTK+/Metacity theme in F12. Nodoka has been the default for a while, and it seems to undergo a major rework now ( http://mso-chronicles.blogspot.com/ ). We don't want to do a radical visual change, though. The idea is to go back to the upstream default, Clearlooks. Let me know what you think. I'd like to make this change for the alpha. Matthias From notting at redhat.com Fri Jul 31 19:35:12 2009 From: notting at redhat.com (Bill Nottingham) Date: Fri, 31 Jul 2009 15:35:12 -0400 Subject: The default theme for F12 In-Reply-To: <1249067858.1586.71.camel@planemask> References: <1249067858.1586.71.camel@planemask> Message-ID: <20090731193512.GA11482@nostromo.devel.redhat.com> Matthias Clasen (mclasen at redhat.com) said: > Hey all, > > we've been discussing the idea of changing the default GTK+/Metacity > theme in F12. Nodoka has been the default for a while, and it seems to > undergo a major rework now ( http://mso-chronicles.blogspot.com/ ). > > We don't want to do a radical visual change, though. The idea is to go > back to the upstream default, Clearlooks. Well, that would still be a visual change. Given that he's restarting nodoka from scratch, that would leave the options as being either: - go to clearlooks - stay with the old nodoka version ? Also, would we be changing the icon set? Bill From mzerqung at 0pointer.de Fri Jul 31 20:01:53 2009 From: mzerqung at 0pointer.de (Lennart Poettering) Date: Fri, 31 Jul 2009 22:01:53 +0200 Subject: The default theme for F12 In-Reply-To: <1249067858.1586.71.camel@planemask> References: <1249067858.1586.71.camel@planemask> Message-ID: <20090731200153.GC5491@tango.0pointer.de> On Fri, 31.07.09 15:17, Matthias Clasen (mclasen at redhat.com) wrote: > Hey all, > > we've been discussing the idea of changing the default GTK+/Metacity > theme in F12. Nodoka has been the default for a while, and it seems to > undergo a major rework now ( http://mso-chronicles.blogspot.com/ ). > > We don't want to do a radical visual change, though. The idea is to go > back to the upstream default, Clearlooks. > > Let me know what you think. > I'd like to make this change for the alpha. I must say I always look enviously to the OpenSUSE's and Ubuntu's of this world with their slick dark or semi-dark ("Sonar"? "Dust"?) themes. Fedora needs one too. (Or at least the ones stolen from opensuse/ubuntu) Lennart -- Lennart Poettering Red Hat, Inc. lennart [at] poettering [dot] net http://0pointer.net/lennart/ GnuPG 0x1A015CC4 From martin.sourada at gmail.com Fri Jul 31 20:32:01 2009 From: martin.sourada at gmail.com (Martin Sourada) Date: Fri, 31 Jul 2009 22:32:01 +0200 Subject: The default theme for F12 In-Reply-To: <1249067858.1586.71.camel@planemask> References: <1249067858.1586.71.camel@planemask> Message-ID: <1249072321.30618.14.camel@pc-notebook.kolej.mff.cuni.cz> On Fri, 2009-07-31 at 15:17 -0400, Matthias Clasen wrote: > Hey all, > > we've been discussing the idea of changing the default GTK+/Metacity > theme in F12. Nodoka has been the default for a while, and it seems to > undergo a major rework now ( http://mso-chronicles.blogspot.com/ ). > > We don't want to do a radical visual change, though. The idea is to go > back to the upstream default, Clearlooks. > > Let me know what you think. > I'd like to make this change for the alpha. > > > Matthias > Hi, The rework is going to take a unspecified (and probably rather long) amount of time (I work on it when I have spare time and feel like working on it, and apart from the buttons, I don't even have the design fully prepared) and it will be just another option. It definitely won't be in Fedora 12 and I won't even push it to Fedora (even rawhide, due to the nature of development) until it is both feature complete and well tested. The current style (with possible minor updates) will stay available in a similar way like Clearlooks engine provides e.g. CLASSIC style. Also, some of the goals are to prepare for possible changes in widget theming in Gtk3 and making it easier to create QT4 variant of the theme. As an author of the engine, I'd be biased in the opinion whether to use Clearlooks or Nodoka in F12, so I can only assure you that Nodoka will stay same in F12 as is in F11 (sans progress-entry support used e.g. in Rawhide's Epiphany and some minor fixes here and there). If you don't want radical visual changes, stay with Nodoka for F12, and when the rework gets completed we can reevaluate whether we want to stay with "classic" Nodoka, go with the updated Nodoka, or revert to Clearlooks (or whatever will be the upstream default by then). Martin -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: signature.asc Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 197 bytes Desc: This is a digitally signed message part URL: From tomkis at hotmail.co.uk Fri Jul 31 20:34:12 2009 From: tomkis at hotmail.co.uk (Tomasz Kisielewski) Date: Fri, 31 Jul 2009 21:34:12 +0100 Subject: The default theme for F12 In-Reply-To: <20090731200153.GC5491@tango.0pointer.de> References: <1249067858.1586.71.camel@planemask> <20090731200153.GC5491@tango.0pointer.de> Message-ID: Hi I wouldn't bother too much about default theme, I was pretty happy with echo, later I have changed to other...Default clearlooks is OK, but would be nice to add some more themes for user to choose from. I couln't find any good looking dark themes for fedora, unlike ubuntu this need to be improved on fedora. Dark themes are quite popular. I have installed opensolaris theme nimbus on my ubuntu 8.04, but themes are matter of personal preferences. Very important IMO is desktop background, something which can put user on his kneel. I know that default colour for fedora is blue ( much better than brown !), but shouldn't it be a little less blueish, something with more life...but its art problem, difficult to describe. Tom > Date: Fri, 31 Jul 2009 22:01:53 +0200 > From: mzerqung at 0pointer.de > To: fedora-desktop-list at redhat.com > Subject: Re: The default theme for F12 > > On Fri, 31.07.09 15:17, Matthias Clasen (mclasen at redhat.com) wrote: > > > Hey all, > > > > we've been discussing the idea of changing the default GTK+/Metacity > > theme in F12. Nodoka has been the default for a while, and it seems to > > undergo a major rework now ( http://mso-chronicles.blogspot.com/ ). > > > > We don't want to do a radical visual change, though. The idea is to go > > back to the upstream default, Clearlooks. > > > > Let me know what you think. > > I'd like to make this change for the alpha. > > I must say I always look enviously to the OpenSUSE's and Ubuntu's of > this world with their slick dark or semi-dark ("Sonar"? "Dust"?) > themes. Fedora needs one too. (Or at least the ones stolen from > opensuse/ubuntu) > > Lennart > > -- > Lennart Poettering Red Hat, Inc. > lennart [at] poettering [dot] net > http://0pointer.net/lennart/ GnuPG 0x1A015CC4 > > -- > Fedora-desktop-list mailing list > Fedora-desktop-list at redhat.com > https://www.redhat.com/mailman/listinfo/fedora-desktop-list _________________________________________________________________ With Windows Live, you can organise, edit, and share your photos. http://clk.atdmt.com/UKM/go/134665338/direct/01/ -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From drago01 at gmail.com Fri Jul 31 21:33:35 2009 From: drago01 at gmail.com (drago01) Date: Fri, 31 Jul 2009 23:33:35 +0200 Subject: The default theme for F12 In-Reply-To: <1249067858.1586.71.camel@planemask> References: <1249067858.1586.71.camel@planemask> Message-ID: On Fri, Jul 31, 2009 at 9:17 PM, Matthias Clasen wrote: > Hey all, > > we've been discussing the idea of changing the default GTK+/Metacity > theme in F12. Nodoka has been the default for a while, and it seems to > undergo a major rework now ( http://mso-chronicles.blogspot.com/ ). > > We don't want to do a radical visual change, though. The idea is to go > back to the upstream default, Clearlooks. > > Let me know what you think. > I'd like to make this change for the alpha. Well we should have some kind of theme that is connected with fedora, so that people can say "this is probably a fedora system". Like ubuntu can be easily recognized by this. Having Nodoka as the default theme somehow gives us this "unique look". From mclasen at redhat.com Fri Jul 31 21:36:44 2009 From: mclasen at redhat.com (Matthias Clasen) Date: Fri, 31 Jul 2009 17:36:44 -0400 Subject: The default theme for F12 In-Reply-To: <20090731193512.GA11482@nostromo.devel.redhat.com> References: <1249067858.1586.71.camel@planemask> <20090731193512.GA11482@nostromo.devel.redhat.com> Message-ID: <1249076204.1512.15.camel@planemask> On Fri, 2009-07-31 at 15:35 -0400, Bill Nottingham wrote: > Matthias Clasen (mclasen at redhat.com) said: > > Hey all, > > > > we've been discussing the idea of changing the default GTK+/Metacity > > theme in F12. Nodoka has been the default for a while, and it seems to > > undergo a major rework now ( http://mso-chronicles.blogspot.com/ ). > > > > We don't want to do a radical visual change, though. The idea is to go > > back to the upstream default, Clearlooks. > > Well, that would still be a visual change. Given that he's restarting > nodoka from scratch, that would leave the options as being either: > - go to clearlooks > - stay with the old nodoka version > ? I see that I should have phrased this better... What I meant to covey is: we _do_ want some visual change, e.g. get rid of some small annoyances in the current default theme, such as the dotted lines in treeviews. But as far as change goes, it is probably fine to keep it subtle (like going to Clearlooks) and not radical, like Lennart proposes (pick a dark default theme). > Also, would we be changing the icon set? I don't think think we have readily available options here. gnome-colors is popular and has a nice blue variant, but it is not packaged for Fedora atm. http://www.gnome-look.org/content/show.php/GNOME-colors?content=82562 From martin.sourada at gmail.com Fri Jul 31 21:50:58 2009 From: martin.sourada at gmail.com (Martin Sourada) Date: Fri, 31 Jul 2009 23:50:58 +0200 Subject: The default theme for F12 In-Reply-To: <1249076204.1512.15.camel@planemask> References: <1249067858.1586.71.camel@planemask> <20090731193512.GA11482@nostromo.devel.redhat.com> <1249076204.1512.15.camel@planemask> Message-ID: <1249077058.30618.19.camel@pc-notebook.kolej.mff.cuni.cz> On Fri, 2009-07-31 at 17:36 -0400, Matthias Clasen wrote: > On Fri, 2009-07-31 at 15:35 -0400, Bill Nottingham wrote: > > Matthias Clasen (mclasen at redhat.com) said: > > > Hey all, > > > > > > we've been discussing the idea of changing the default GTK+/Metacity > > > theme in F12. Nodoka has been the default for a while, and it seems to > > > undergo a major rework now ( http://mso-chronicles.blogspot.com/ ). > > > > > > We don't want to do a radical visual change, though. The idea is to go > > > back to the upstream default, Clearlooks. > > > > Well, that would still be a visual change. Given that he's restarting > > nodoka from scratch, that would leave the options as being either: > > - go to clearlooks > > - stay with the old nodoka version > > ? > > I see that I should have phrased this better... > > What I meant to covey is: we _do_ want some visual change, e.g. get rid > of some small annoyances in the current default theme, such as the > dotted lines in treeviews. > These can be turned off by changing listviewstyle engine option to 0 and I'll do it if there is such desire. What are the other small annoyances? Martin -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: signature.asc Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 197 bytes Desc: This is a digitally signed message part URL: From christoph.wickert at googlemail.com Fri Jul 31 23:55:53 2009 From: christoph.wickert at googlemail.com (Christoph Wickert) Date: Sat, 01 Aug 2009 01:55:53 +0200 Subject: The default theme for F12 In-Reply-To: <1249076204.1512.15.camel@planemask> References: <1249067858.1586.71.camel@planemask> <20090731193512.GA11482@nostromo.devel.redhat.com> <1249076204.1512.15.camel@planemask> Message-ID: <1249084553.2762.35.camel@localhost> Am Freitag, den 31.07.2009, 17:36 -0400 schrieb Matthias Clasen: > On Fri, 2009-07-31 at 15:35 -0400, Bill Nottingham wrote: > > Matthias Clasen (mclasen at redhat.com) said: > > > Hey all, > > > > > > we've been discussing the idea of changing the default GTK+/Metacity > > > theme in F12. Nodoka has been the default for a while, and it seems to > > > undergo a major rework now ( http://mso-chronicles.blogspot.com/ ). > > > > > > We don't want to do a radical visual change, though. The idea is to go > > > back to the upstream default, Clearlooks. >From what I see the change in Nodoka is not that radical, even if Martin started from scratch. A change to Clearlooks would be IMO more radical - and more boring. Nodoka has become a characteristic of Fedora, it's developed by a Fedora member inside the Project. I think we should stick with Nodoka, at least for F12. There will be no major changes and we can decide again for F13 about whether we follow Martins approach or go somewhere else. > > Well, that would still be a visual change. Given that he's restarting > > nodoka from scratch, that would leave the options as being either: > > - go to clearlooks > > - stay with the old nodoka version > > ? > > I see that I should have phrased this better... > > What I meant to covey is: we _do_ want some visual change, Do we? I'm fine with Nodoka as is. > e.g. get rid > of some small annoyances in the current default theme, such as the > dotted lines in treeviews. I like them. If they annoy you, file a bug or turn them off as Martin already wrote. > But as far as change goes, it is probably fine to keep it subtle (like > going to Clearlooks) and not radical, like Lennart proposes (pick a dark > default theme). No dark them please. If Ubuntu or others want to follow every new hip trend from Redmond - ok. But not Fedora please. Nodoka has become too important for Fedora and Martin has put much work in it, so we shouldn't just throw it all away. Regards, Christoph From poelstra at redhat.com Fri Jul 31 14:33:09 2009 From: poelstra at redhat.com (John Poelstra) Date: Fri, 31 Jul 2009 07:33:09 -0700 Subject: Fedora 12 Features Needing Updates Message-ID: <4A7300A5.7000906@redhat.com> We have reached and passed the Fedora 12 Feature Freeze milestone. All Fedora 12 features should be significantly complete and in a "testable" state. We need the help of several feature owners to bring their pages current or target them for Fedora 13. According to a review of all the feature pages, the following features have not been updated recently or are not 100% complete. Please update them no later than Wednesday, August 6, 2009. https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Features/ABRTF12 https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Features/DisplayPort https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Features/Empathy https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Features/FedoraStudio https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Features/GFS2ClusteredSamba https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Features/Gnome2.28 https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Features/KVM_NIC_Hotplug https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Features/KVM_qcow2_Performance https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Features/KVM_Stable_Guest_ABI https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Features/libguestfs https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Features/LowerProcessCapabilities https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Features/XI2 https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Features/MoreNetworkManagerMobileBroadband https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Features/FedoraMoblin https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Features/NetBeans_6.7 https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Features/NetworkManagerSystemConnections https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Features/NFSClientIPv6 https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Features/NFSv4Default https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Features/Rakudo_Perl_6 https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Features/SR-IOV https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Features/Thusnelda https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Features/SystemtapTracingRefresh https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Features/VirtioSerial https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Features/VirtStorageManagement https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Features/YumLangpackPlugin If any of the features listed above remain in their current state, I will recommend that FESCo review and drop them from the Fedora 12 feature list at their August 7, 2009, meeting. If your feature is substantially complete and in a "testable state" for Fedora 12, please perform the following: 1) Update the % complete and "last updated" date 2) In the status section please also include what remains to be completed including your realistic assessment as to whether it is possible to complete by Final Freeze on 2009-09-22. If you believe your feature is NOT ready for Fedora 12, that is okay :) Fedora 13 is only a few short months away. If you would like to target your feature for Fedora 13:, please change the: 1) page category to "Cateogory:FeatureReadyForWranger" 2) "targeted release" to Fedora 13. If your feature will not be ready for Fedora 12 and you aren't sure what is going to happen to it: 1) Please change the category of your page to Category:FeaturePageIncomplete 2) Remove Fedora 12 as the targeted release. Thank you for your help, John p.s Individual feature owners have also been bcc on this email