Leaving?

[Sean]

On Fri, 28 Jul 2006 10:13:30 +0200
Hans de Goede <j.w.r.degoede at hhs.nl> wrote:


> I keep hearing this argument, that the packages for the involved drivers
>  can be made to conflict with the update. Which in essence will deprive
> all but the most technical of our users from security updates. So this
> is a moot argument. ? Deprive all but the most technical of our users
> from security updates is almost as bad as completly breaking their system.

No, it is not a moot argument.  The security updates will only be unavailable
to those users until a new binary-driver is released.  Hopefully the
creation of a large userbase wanting such an updated driver will motivate
the providers to create one.  But it's the users of those drivers that
should pay the price, not all the open source users.
 
> They will suffer, see above. Not all our users are yum wizzards.

No yum wizardry needed at all if properly managed by the 3rd party repos.

> You keep saying it won't hurt them if that other repo makes their
> drivers conflict. They will hurt from frustating error messages they
> don't understand and from lack of security updates see above.

Well, I don't know about the conflicts error message, but i'm pretty
sure that with enough education users could be taught to understand what
it means.  Also, there is another option of the binary rpm installing
an excludes for the X update so that those users would never even be
offered it.  I'm sure there are other ways to handle this issue that
would make the user experience a little less frustrating.  But again,
lets not ignore the frustration of users who can't use FC5 fully because
support for their cards is much better in 7.1.

> Why should those that care tell the user how to work around a problem
> being created by people who appereantly don't care? And here we have the
> real problem, the real problem is not this update this is just an
> example the real problem is many Fedora developers seem to be so
> arrogant that they don't care about their endusers. Thank you I guess
> that is what frustates me the not caring, now can we please start
> discussing that which IMHO is the real issue and stop discussing the
> example.

Where you see arrogance and a lack of caring I see a difference of
opinion and of priorities.

Sean