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Re: Leaving? ( AKA Fedora Target Audience)

Jesse Keating wrote:
On Friday 28 July 2006 12:28, Harry Smith wrote:
The "full speed" groups seems to be of the opinion that NV and ATI
will solve the problem if Fedora adopts the Xorg 7.1.  Frankly, I
think this is a bit naive.   ATI & NV have need incentive to move
forward for Fedora.  If RH did the upgrade that broke the NV and ATI
drivers something would happen.  (BTW when is RH planning to move to
Xorg 7.1, I have no idea how to find that out.)

RHEL5. I'm assuming your "RH" refers to Red Hat Enterprise Server. We don't do major version upgrades in RHEL, that's part of it being Enterprise themed (:

But the "full speed" has done this before and  FC survived. Look at
the problems when FC 5 first deployed and the less experienced users
could not add packages if they were not attached to the Internet
until they learned how to fake out yum.   If this is the final path,
I hope that people on the forum will be more understanding than when
FC 5 first deployed.

I would like to remind the "full speed" group of another clause in
the objectives for Fedora;

        Emphasize usability and a "just works" philosophy in selecting
default configuration and designing features provided by Fedora.

This seems to be broken with the deployment of Xorg in FC5.

Incorrect. FC5 will continue to "just work" if you use the included driver set. You've gone beyond the default configuration to install binary drivers. You lose the "just works" with every kernel update. That's the fate you have to deal with when using binary out of kernel drivers.

When FC5 first came out I could have sworn nvidia drivers didn't work for it for a period of time. Whoops. Should we have held up the release of FC5 until Nvidia caught up? I think not.

thats was something differnet (no working system has silently broke)

also for people installed the nvidia driver used the nvidia installer will end up with a broken X after they updated X (even from xorg-7.0 to xorg-7.0-1) because the nvidia installer replaces some files which the rpm transaction will replace again. (=>segfaulting gl apps but not a system without X) the xorg-7.1 update is a bit different, those users (nvidia installer and rpm based) will end up with no X. For nvidia there is a workaround for this , ATI is even more worse if yum provides a 'yum downgrade xorg-x11' this wont be such a big problem, but many user have no idea how to downgrade to and old X version again.
this can be fixed in yum and X:
yum: provide a downgrade option
X: fall back to vesa if a driver fails to load (this can also happens with open source drivers so it will be usefull for something else too)
=>problem solved ;)

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