From david at lovesunix.net Mon Jan 1 02:59:15 2007 From: david at lovesunix.net (David Nielsen) Date: Mon, 01 Jan 2007 03:59:15 +0100 Subject: The cdrecord debate In-Reply-To: <200612310857.22647.tbrinkman@sbcglobal.net> References: <1167422754.3244.5.camel@dawkins> <1167504708.3138.14.camel@dawkins> <459743CC.9030800@fedoraproject.org> <200612310857.22647.tbrinkman@sbcglobal.net> Message-ID: <1167620355.3126.11.camel@dawkins> s?n, 31 12 2006 kl. 08:57 -0600, skrev Tom Brinkman: > On Saturday 30 December 2006 10:59 pm, Rahul Sundaram wrote: > > David Nielsen wrote: > > > l?r, 30 12 2006 kl. 23:07 +0530, skrev Rahul Sundaram: > > >> Thomas Canniot wrote: > > >>> It's been a long time cdrecord was broken into fedora. I > > >>> think we should move to cdrkit of debian : it based on > > >>> cdrecord and its licence stands as our. Moreover, I think we > > >>> can trust Debian for the quality of software development. > > >> > > >> What do you mean by saying that cdrecord is broken in Fedora? > > >> Do you have bug reports? > > > > > > #220972 just being one case of breaking cdrecord... post > > > release. > > > > Anyone else seeing this problem? > > > > Rahul > > No. For burning iso's as in the BZ I use, > 'cdrecord -v -eject driveropts=burnfree speed=16 dev=ATA:1,1,0 -dao' > (burner an media are 52x) > > Has the reporter tried this as root? Some hardware, particularly > Plextor's can only burn as root. Yes reporter has tried as root, same result - same exact hardware and media from the same spindel worked fine previously as root and as user. I'm trying to figure out what update broke this so that a cause might be found. - David -- "Ridicule is the only weapon that can be used against unintelligible propositions. 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Name: signature.asc Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 189 bytes Desc: Dette er en digitalt underskrevet brevdel URL: From knightmerc at yahoo.com Mon Jan 1 08:12:23 2007 From: knightmerc at yahoo.com (Lyvim Xaphir) Date: Mon, 01 Jan 2007 03:12:23 -0500 Subject: Please make Evolution the default mailer In-Reply-To: <1167425445.13150.5.camel@sioux.systems.cs.cornell.edu> References: <1144155199.2808.94.camel@dimi> <20060404131520.19567.qmail@hm196.locaweb.com.br> <20060412114214.GA28564@devserv.devel.redhat.com> <1144847486.6382.144.camel@dimi> <1144848525.2294.274.camel@sundaram.pnq.redhat.com> <1167210602.2786.38.camel@localhost.localdomain> <1167210880.2786.41.camel@localhost.localdomain> <1167239384.6753.3.camel@home-desk> <1167243602.1287.44.camel@dawkins> <4580.207.245.37.34.1167245384.squirrel@lattica.com> <459321B3.6040600@andrei.myip.org> <1167318220.6805.15.camel@gilboa-work-dev.localdomain> <1167377762.8348.5.camel@gilboa-home-dev.localdomain> <1167414097.2429.245.camel@localhost.localdomain> <1167425445.13150.5.camel@sioux.systems.cs.cornell.edu> Message-ID: <1167639143.2429.489.camel@localhost.localdomain> On Fri, 2006-12-29 at 15:50 -0500, Saikat Guha wrote: > On Fri, 2006-12-29 at 18:30 +0000, Leo wrote: > > * Lyvim Xaphir (2006-12-29 12:41 -0500) said: > > > BTW the man asked you for proof and you provided none. > > > > Have you not read What Saikat Guha wrote in > > ? > > I think you misread my response. > > I was pointing out that Evolution is #1 on the fedora-devel list where > one would expect to find people who can make an informed decision on > which mailer to use. > > As such you original claim that "Evolution is useless for most users" is > completely baseless, sensationalist and imho, wrong. You are absolutely right. To bolster our point even further, currently Evo is in the number two place on the kernel mailing list at vger. As far as informed decisions go, I expect the kernel gods to be making those on a regular basis. So what I think we have here with his 'sensationalist' claims is nothing more than a troll. LX From knightmerc at yahoo.com Mon Jan 1 08:23:04 2007 From: knightmerc at yahoo.com (Lyvim Xaphir) Date: Mon, 01 Jan 2007 03:23:04 -0500 Subject: Please make Evolution the default mailer In-Reply-To: References: <1144155199.2808.94.camel@dimi> <20060404131520.19567.qmail@hm196.locaweb.com.br> <20060412114214.GA28564@devserv.devel.redhat.com> <1144847486.6382.144.camel@dimi> <1144848525.2294.274.camel@sundaram.pnq.redhat.com> <1167210602.2786.38.camel@localhost.localdomain> <1167210880.2786.41.camel@localhost.localdomain> <1167239384.6753.3.camel@home-desk> <1167243602.1287.44.camel@dawkins> <4580.207.245.37.34.1167245384.squirrel@lattica.com> <459321B3.6040600@andrei.myip.org> <1167318220.6805.15.camel@gilboa-work-dev.localdomain> <1167377762.8348.5.camel@gilboa-home-dev.localdomain> <1167414097.2429.245.camel@localhost.localdomain> <1167425445.13150.5.camel@sioux.systems.cs.cornell.edu> Message-ID: <1167639784.2429.496.camel@localhost.localdomain> On Fri, 2006-12-29 at 21:40 +0000, Leo wrote: > * Saikat Guha (2006-12-29 15:50 -0500) said: > ^^^^^^^^^^^ > [...] > >> Have you not read What Saikat Guha wrote in > >> ? > > > > I think you misread my response. > > > > I was pointing out that Evolution is #1 on the fedora-devel list > > where one would expect to find people who can make an informed > > decision on which mailer to use. > > Regarding the fact that Evolution has been in Redhat/Fedora since RH7 > or maybe earlier and Thunderbird 1.0 was released at the end of 2004, > that #1 does explain something in favor of my claim. *NB* I use > neither Evolution nor Thunderbird. Number one, you are a frakking gmail user, which says enough almost all by itself; second, you sit there trying to promote stupid decisions for an established majority userbase that you have no business dictating to. Go troll somewhere else, find another way to support Micro$haft. > > > As such you original claim that "Evolution is useless for most > > users" is completely baseless, sensationalist and imho, wrong. > ...... > -- > Leo (GPG Key: 9283AA3F) > LX From jfrieben at gmx.de Mon Jan 1 10:21:52 2007 From: jfrieben at gmx.de (Joachim Frieben) Date: Mon, 01 Jan 2007 11:21:52 +0100 Subject: Rawhide status In-Reply-To: <1167609022.3549.1.camel@scrappy.miketc.com> References: <1167609022.3549.1.camel@scrappy.miketc.com> Message-ID: <20070101102152.214400@gmx.net> > Is rawhide status sort of broken due to kernel, dev stuff (hdx to sdx) > or whatever? Or is that part fixed and even installable or whatever > now? > > Hvaen't tried it in a week or longer, and ended up having to reinstall > FC6+updates to get back a usable system. > > -- > Mike Chambers > Madisonville, KY As pointed out in previous comments, it's perfectly possible to use rescue/install disks which are out of sync to install "FC rawhide". I have used "FC6" and even "FC5" rescue/install disks to install "rawhide" successfully [especially useful when e.g. current "anaconda" is broken on a particular hardware]. :) The problem with the current "rawhide" rescue image is that networking is broken [at least for me], and so no network install can be performed. In my case, the only thing to take care of after using the "FC6" install media was to "chroot" to "/mnt/sysimage" at the end of the install procedure and to reinstall the kernel. Now, current "mkinitrd" [v6.0.6] is used instead of the older one used by the installer, and a valid "initrd" file is created. After that, my "IBM ThinkPad T23" happily boots into "FC devel" using the current "2.6.19" kernel. -- Der GMX SmartSurfer hilft bis zu 70% Ihrer Onlinekosten zu sparen! Ideal f?r Modem und ISDN: http://www.gmx.net/de/go/smartsurfer From drago01 at gmail.com Mon Jan 1 10:50:48 2007 From: drago01 at gmail.com (dragoran) Date: Mon, 01 Jan 2007 11:50:48 +0100 Subject: The cdrecord debate In-Reply-To: <200612310857.22647.tbrinkman@sbcglobal.net> References: <1167422754.3244.5.camel@dawkins> <1167504708.3138.14.camel@dawkins> <459743CC.9030800@fedoraproject.org> <200612310857.22647.tbrinkman@sbcglobal.net> Message-ID: <4598E788.1040607@gmail.com> Tom Brinkman wrote: > No. For burning iso's as in the BZ I use, > 'cdrecord -v -eject driveropts=burnfree speed=16 dev=ATA:1,1,0 -dao' > (burner an media are 52x) > > Has the reporter tried this as root? Some hardware, particularly > Plextor's can only burn as root. > for me it works using plextor 755A (as user and root). (but have not tested with the current kernel release) but for some reason cdrecord -scanbus does not work: Cdrecord-Clone 2.01 (cpu-pc-linux-gnu) Copyright (C) 1995-2004 J?rg Schilling Note: This version is an unofficial (modified) version with DVD support Note: and therefore may have bugs that are not present in the original. Note: Please send bug reports or support requests to http://bugzilla.redhat.com/bugzilla Note: The author of cdrecord should not be bothered with problems in this version. cdrecord: Invalid or incomplete multibyte or wide character. Cannot open SCSI driver. cdrecord: For possible targets try 'cdrecord -scanbus'. cdrecord: For possible transport specifiers try 'cdrecord dev=help'. (same result as root and user) From fedora at camperquake.de Mon Jan 1 15:56:06 2007 From: fedora at camperquake.de (Ralf Ertzinger) Date: Mon, 1 Jan 2007 16:56:06 +0100 Subject: To NX or not to NX Message-ID: <20070101165606.58b923e0@lain.camperquake.de> Hi. Looking through dmesg on my laptop, I noticed the following: Using x86 segment limits to approximate NX protection While this is certainly nice, the processor is quite capable of real NX: $ grep nx /proc/cpuinfo flags : fpu vme de pse tsc msr pae mce cx8 apic mtrr pge mca cmov pat clflush dts acpi mmx fxsr sse sse2 ss ht tm pbe nx constant_tsc pni monitor vmx est tm2 xtpr flags : fpu vme de pse tsc msr pae mce cx8 apic mtrr pge mca cmov pat clflush dts acpi mmx fxsr sse sse2 ss ht tm pbe nx constant_tsc pni monitor vmx est tm2 xtpr Is there a reason this is not used? kernel is 2.6.19-1.2891, processor is a Intel Core Duo CPU L2400 From Matt_Domsch at dell.com Mon Jan 1 16:12:28 2007 From: Matt_Domsch at dell.com (Matt Domsch) Date: Mon, 1 Jan 2007 10:12:28 -0600 Subject: To NX or not to NX In-Reply-To: <20070101165606.58b923e0@lain.camperquake.de> References: <20070101165606.58b923e0@lain.camperquake.de> Message-ID: <20070101161227.GA31934@lists.us.dell.com> On Mon, Jan 01, 2007 at 04:56:06PM +0100, Ralf Ertzinger wrote: > Hi. > > Looking through dmesg on my laptop, I noticed the following: > > Using x86 segment limits to approximate NX protection > > While this is certainly nice, the processor is quite capable of real > NX: > > $ grep nx /proc/cpuinfo > flags : fpu vme de pse tsc msr pae mce cx8 apic mtrr pge mca cmov pat clflush dts acpi mmx fxsr sse sse2 ss ht tm pbe nx constant_tsc pni monitor vmx est tm2 xtpr > flags : fpu vme de pse tsc msr pae mce cx8 apic mtrr pge mca cmov pat clflush dts acpi mmx fxsr sse sse2 ss ht tm pbe nx constant_tsc pni monitor vmx est tm2 xtpr > > Is there a reason this is not used? > > kernel is 2.6.19-1.2891, processor is a Intel Core Duo CPU L2400 is NX disabled in the BIOS? -- Matt Domsch Software Architect Dell Linux Solutions linux.dell.com & www.dell.com/linux Linux on Dell mailing lists @ http://lists.us.dell.com From fedora at camperquake.de Mon Jan 1 16:23:26 2007 From: fedora at camperquake.de (Ralf Ertzinger) Date: Mon, 1 Jan 2007 17:23:26 +0100 Subject: To NX or not to NX In-Reply-To: <20070101161227.GA31934@lists.us.dell.com> References: <20070101165606.58b923e0@lain.camperquake.de> <20070101161227.GA31934@lists.us.dell.com> Message-ID: <20070101172326.24904a84@lain.camperquake.de> Hi. On Mon, 1 Jan 2007 10:12:28 -0600, Matt Domsch wrote > > kernel is 2.6.19-1.2891, processor is a Intel Core Duo CPU L2400 > > is NX disabled in the BIOS? I just checked, it is enabled. The only kernel that seems to have noticed that was the FC6 xen kernel: Linux version 2.6.18-1.2798.fc6xen (brewbuilder at hs20-bc2-4.build.redhat.com) (gcc version 4.1.1 2006101 1 (Red Hat 4.1.1-30)) #1 SMP Mon Oct 16 15:11:19 EDT 2006 BIOS-provided physical RAM map: Xen: 0000000000000000 - 000000001cf7f000 (usable) 0MB HIGHMEM available. 463MB LOWMEM available. NX (Execute Disable) protection: active found SMP MP-table at 000f6800 [...] From promac at gmail.com Mon Jan 1 16:31:38 2007 From: promac at gmail.com (Paulo Cavalcanti) Date: Mon, 1 Jan 2007 14:31:38 -0200 Subject: The cdrecord debate Message-ID: <68720af30701010831j588f5ff5wd821b3ffad11e306@mail.gmail.com> > for me it works using plextor 755A (as user and root). (but have not tested with the current kernel release) > but for some reason cdrecord -scanbus does not work: You need to pass dev=ATA. The simplest way is creating an alias like this, if you use tcsh: alias cdrecord 'cdrecord dev=ATA \!*' /Paulo Roma. -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From katzj at redhat.com Mon Jan 1 18:17:31 2007 From: katzj at redhat.com (Jeremy Katz) Date: Mon, 01 Jan 2007 13:17:31 -0500 Subject: To NX or not to NX In-Reply-To: <20070101165606.58b923e0@lain.camperquake.de> References: <20070101165606.58b923e0@lain.camperquake.de> Message-ID: <1167675451.8264.1.camel@aglarond.local> On Mon, 2007-01-01 at 16:56 +0100, Ralf Ertzinger wrote: > Looking through dmesg on my laptop, I noticed the following: > > Using x86 segment limits to approximate NX protection > > While this is certainly nice, the processor is quite capable of real > NX: [snip] > Is there a reason this is not used? Unfortunately, you have to use a PAE kernel to use real NX :( Jeremy From leomon.chris at gmail.com Mon Jan 1 18:17:54 2007 From: leomon.chris at gmail.com (leomon) Date: Mon, 1 Jan 2007 13:17:54 -0500 Subject: The cdrecord debate In-Reply-To: <1167620355.3126.11.camel@dawkins> References: <1167422754.3244.5.camel@dawkins> <1167504708.3138.14.camel@dawkins> <459743CC.9030800@fedoraproject.org> <200612310857.22647.tbrinkman@sbcglobal.net> <1167620355.3126.11.camel@dawkins> Message-ID: This is not about an instance of CDrecord being broken. This discussion is about the licensing issues presented by the further use of CDrecord in the distrobution. I agree with what has been previously said, let's try Debian's variant of cdrecord and go with cdrkit as cdrecord's successor. Thank you Christopher Rutherford > > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From katzj at redhat.com Mon Jan 1 18:19:15 2007 From: katzj at redhat.com (Jeremy Katz) Date: Mon, 01 Jan 2007 13:19:15 -0500 Subject: Rawhide status In-Reply-To: <1167609022.3549.1.camel@scrappy.miketc.com> References: <1167609022.3549.1.camel@scrappy.miketc.com> Message-ID: <1167675555.8264.3.camel@aglarond.local> On Sun, 2006-12-31 at 17:50 -0600, Mike Chambers wrote: > Is rawhide status sort of broken due to kernel, dev stuff (hdx to sdx) > or whatever? Or is that part fixed and even installable or whatever > now? I expect that installation is broken, but not really due to kernel or device stuff... more the libdhcp segfault that showed up right before Christmas. But most of us are taking time off over the holidays and so nothing has really changed. Things should start getting back in gear as the week moves forward Jeremy From cmadams at hiwaay.net Mon Jan 1 18:35:09 2007 From: cmadams at hiwaay.net (Chris Adams) Date: Mon, 1 Jan 2007 12:35:09 -0600 Subject: To NX or not to NX In-Reply-To: <1167675451.8264.1.camel@aglarond.local> References: <20070101165606.58b923e0@lain.camperquake.de> <1167675451.8264.1.camel@aglarond.local> Message-ID: <20070101183509.GA895534@hiwaay.net> Once upon a time, Jeremy Katz said: > Unfortunately, you have to use a PAE kernel to use real NX :( What is the downside of using a PAE kernel? I've got an Athlon 64 where I'm still running the 32 bit OS (for compatibility mainly). Is it possible to install and run the 64 bit kernel with a fully 32 bit userland? Would that be better/worse than running a 32 bit PAE kernel? -- Chris Adams Systems and Network Administrator - HiWAAY Internet Services I don't speak for anybody but myself - that's enough trouble. From arjan at fenrus.demon.nl Mon Jan 1 18:40:18 2007 From: arjan at fenrus.demon.nl (Arjan van de Ven) Date: Mon, 01 Jan 2007 19:40:18 +0100 Subject: To NX or not to NX In-Reply-To: <1167675451.8264.1.camel@aglarond.local> References: <20070101165606.58b923e0@lain.camperquake.de> <1167675451.8264.1.camel@aglarond.local> Message-ID: <1167676818.20929.1111.camel@laptopd505.fenrus.org> On Mon, 2007-01-01 at 13:17 -0500, Jeremy Katz wrote: > On Mon, 2007-01-01 at 16:56 +0100, Ralf Ertzinger wrote: > > Looking through dmesg on my laptop, I noticed the following: > > > > Using x86 segment limits to approximate NX protection > > > > While this is certainly nice, the processor is quite capable of real > > NX: > [snip] > > Is there a reason this is not used? > > Unfortunately, you have to use a PAE kernel to use real NX :( doesn't anaconda default to this on NX capable machines? (all NX capable machines have PAE support as well obviously) From arjan at fenrus.demon.nl Mon Jan 1 18:40:45 2007 From: arjan at fenrus.demon.nl (Arjan van de Ven) Date: Mon, 01 Jan 2007 19:40:45 +0100 Subject: To NX or not to NX In-Reply-To: <20070101183509.GA895534@hiwaay.net> References: <20070101165606.58b923e0@lain.camperquake.de> <1167675451.8264.1.camel@aglarond.local> <20070101183509.GA895534@hiwaay.net> Message-ID: <1167676845.20929.1113.camel@laptopd505.fenrus.org> On Mon, 2007-01-01 at 12:35 -0600, Chris Adams wrote: > Once upon a time, Jeremy Katz said: > > Unfortunately, you have to use a PAE kernel to use real NX :( > > What is the downside of using a PAE kernel? > > I've got an Athlon 64 where I'm still running the 32 bit OS (for > compatibility mainly). Is it possible to install and run the 64 bit > kernel with a fully 32 bit userland? Would that be better/worse than > running a 32 bit PAE kernel? worse, emulation isn't free.... From katzj at redhat.com Mon Jan 1 19:12:46 2007 From: katzj at redhat.com (Jeremy Katz) Date: Mon, 01 Jan 2007 14:12:46 -0500 Subject: To NX or not to NX In-Reply-To: <1167676818.20929.1111.camel@laptopd505.fenrus.org> References: <20070101165606.58b923e0@lain.camperquake.de> <1167675451.8264.1.camel@aglarond.local> <1167676818.20929.1111.camel@laptopd505.fenrus.org> Message-ID: <1167678766.8264.8.camel@aglarond.local> On Mon, 2007-01-01 at 19:40 +0100, Arjan van de Ven wrote: > On Mon, 2007-01-01 at 13:17 -0500, Jeremy Katz wrote: > > On Mon, 2007-01-01 at 16:56 +0100, Ralf Ertzinger wrote: > > > Looking through dmesg on my laptop, I noticed the following: > > > > > > Using x86 segment limits to approximate NX protection > > > > > > While this is certainly nice, the processor is quite capable of real > > > NX: > > [snip] > > > Is there a reason this is not used? > > > > Unfortunately, you have to use a PAE kernel to use real NX :( > > doesn't anaconda default to this on NX capable machines? > (all NX capable machines have PAE support as well obviously) We tried doing so with an FC5 test release, but things didn't go so well so we reverted back for the final. CONFIG_HIGHMEM64G also isn't that great for laptops. The work really needs to get done so that pae can be done at runtime, much like smp alternatives lets us do for smp. Separate kernels is _always_ a losing battle for someone ;-) Jeremy From arjan at fenrus.demon.nl Mon Jan 1 19:26:33 2007 From: arjan at fenrus.demon.nl (Arjan van de Ven) Date: Mon, 01 Jan 2007 20:26:33 +0100 Subject: To NX or not to NX In-Reply-To: <1167678766.8264.8.camel@aglarond.local> References: <20070101165606.58b923e0@lain.camperquake.de> <1167675451.8264.1.camel@aglarond.local> <1167676818.20929.1111.camel@laptopd505.fenrus.org> <1167678766.8264.8.camel@aglarond.local> Message-ID: <1167679593.20929.1125.camel@laptopd505.fenrus.org> > We tried doing so with an FC5 test release, but things didn't go so well > so we reverted back for the final. wasn't that when SMP and PAE were still tied together ? (smp I can believe not going well :) > CONFIG_HIGHMEM64G also isn't that > great for laptops. actually it doesn't matter at all; if the cpu can do NX it can do PAE. The pM PAE issue is only for pre-NX cpus > The work really needs to get done so that pae can be done at runtime, > much like smp alternatives lets us do for smp. Separate kernels is > _always_ a losing battle for someone ;-) oh I buy that.. however it's NotThatEasy(tm). Even that other OS doesn't do it ;) From davej at redhat.com Mon Jan 1 19:28:26 2007 From: davej at redhat.com (Dave Jones) Date: Mon, 1 Jan 2007 14:28:26 -0500 Subject: To NX or not to NX In-Reply-To: <1167678766.8264.8.camel@aglarond.local> References: <20070101165606.58b923e0@lain.camperquake.de> <1167675451.8264.1.camel@aglarond.local> <1167676818.20929.1111.camel@laptopd505.fenrus.org> <1167678766.8264.8.camel@aglarond.local> Message-ID: <20070101192826.GC20443@redhat.com> On Mon, Jan 01, 2007 at 02:12:46PM -0500, Jeremy Katz wrote: > > doesn't anaconda default to this on NX capable machines? > > (all NX capable machines have PAE support as well obviously) > > We tried doing so with an FC5 test release, but things didn't go so well > so we reverted back for the final. Was that NX, or was it "If we have PAE, do PAE ?". My memory is hazy as to what exactly broke, but I wonder if we can just special case the bad eggs. > CONFIG_HIGHMEM64G also isn't that > great for laptops. > > The work really needs to get done so that pae can be done at runtime, > much like smp alternatives lets us do for smp. Separate kernels is > _always_ a losing battle for someone ;-) I think it's a bigger effort to make that happen than it was for smp-alternatives, at least in part because it needs to happen really early during boot, possibly before we even get to C code. Even with alternatives style runtime patching, I think we'd still have to end up with some stuff being conditionals at runtime whereas right now they're #defines, which the compiler can sometimes even CSE. Introducing conditionals in places like page fault handling just screams "performance hit" to me. As much as we all dislike it, a separate kernel image really is the best option here. The complexity involved in getting this stuff right is just horrific. Dave -- http://www.codemonkey.org.uk From lamont at gurulabs.com Mon Jan 1 20:34:41 2007 From: lamont at gurulabs.com (Lamont Peterson) Date: Mon, 1 Jan 2007 13:34:41 -0700 Subject: To NX or not to NX In-Reply-To: <20070101165606.58b923e0@lain.camperquake.de> References: <20070101165606.58b923e0@lain.camperquake.de> Message-ID: <200701011334.42215.lamont@gurulabs.com> On Monday 01 January 2007 08:56am, Ralf Ertzinger wrote: > Hi. > > Looking through dmesg on my laptop, I noticed the following: > > Using x86 segment limits to approximate NX protection > > While this is certainly nice, the processor is quite capable of real > NX: > > $ grep nx /proc/cpuinfo > flags : fpu vme de pse tsc msr pae mce cx8 apic mtrr pge mca cmov > pat clflush dts acpi mmx fxsr sse sse2 ss ht tm pbe nx constant_tsc pni > monitor vmx est tm2 xtpr flags : fpu vme de pse tsc msr pae mce > cx8 apic mtrr pge mca cmov pat clflush dts acpi mmx fxsr sse sse2 ss ht tm > pbe nx constant_tsc pni monitor vmx est tm2 xtpr Are you certain the proc(s) really does/do support nx? Intel chips are infamous for reporting flags for features that they don't actually support. For example, on this notebook: # grep flags /proc/cpuinfo flags : fpu vme de pse tsc msr pae mce cx8 mtrr pge mca cmov pat pse36 clflush dts acpi mmx fxsr sse sse2 ss ht tm I know for certain that this proc does not support HyperThreading or PAE, but there they are anyway. > Is there a reason this is not used? Sorry, I can't comment on this as I have no knowledge about what the fedora kernels configured regarding NX. > kernel is 2.6.19-1.2891, processor is a Intel Core Duo CPU L2400 -- Lamont Peterson Senior Instructor Guru Labs, L.C. [ http://www.GuruLabs.com/ ] NOTE: All messages from this email address should be digitally signed with my 0xDC0DD409 GPG key. It is available on the pgp.mit.edu keyserver as well as other keyservers that sync with MIT's. -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 189 bytes Desc: not available URL: From fedora at camperquake.de Mon Jan 1 20:41:17 2007 From: fedora at camperquake.de (Ralf Ertzinger) Date: Mon, 1 Jan 2007 21:41:17 +0100 Subject: To NX or not to NX In-Reply-To: <200701011334.42215.lamont@gurulabs.com> References: <20070101165606.58b923e0@lain.camperquake.de> <200701011334.42215.lamont@gurulabs.com> Message-ID: <20070101214117.1d48b973@lain.camperquake.de> Hi. On Mon, 1 Jan 2007 13:34:41 -0700, Lamont Peterson wrote > Are you certain the proc(s) really does/do support nx? Intel chips > are infamous for reporting flags for features that they don't > actually support. For example, on this notebook: Yes, the processors do support NX. However, I have seen chips reporting HT when they do not support it, too. From arjan at fenrus.demon.nl Mon Jan 1 20:46:42 2007 From: arjan at fenrus.demon.nl (Arjan van de Ven) Date: Mon, 01 Jan 2007 21:46:42 +0100 Subject: To NX or not to NX In-Reply-To: <200701011334.42215.lamont@gurulabs.com> References: <20070101165606.58b923e0@lain.camperquake.de> <200701011334.42215.lamont@gurulabs.com> Message-ID: <1167684402.20929.1143.camel@laptopd505.fenrus.org> > Are you certain the proc(s) really does/do support nx? Intel chips are > infamous for reporting flags for features that they don't actually support. > For example, on this notebook: > > # grep flags /proc/cpuinfo > flags : fpu vme de pse tsc msr pae mce cx8 mtrr pge mca cmov pat > pse36 clflush dts acpi mmx fxsr sse sse2 ss ht tm > > I know for certain that this proc does not support HyperThreading or PAE, but > there they are anyway. your cpu DOES support PAE.... (really, it won't report it otherwise) And it supports HT reporting (that is what "ht" means, it supports reporting the number of siblings via cpuid, it's a very common misperception of people to think it means your cpu has 2 hyperthreading threads) From lamont at gurulabs.com Mon Jan 1 20:59:39 2007 From: lamont at gurulabs.com (Lamont Peterson) Date: Mon, 1 Jan 2007 13:59:39 -0700 Subject: To NX or not to NX In-Reply-To: <1167684402.20929.1143.camel@laptopd505.fenrus.org> References: <20070101165606.58b923e0@lain.camperquake.de> <200701011334.42215.lamont@gurulabs.com> <1167684402.20929.1143.camel@laptopd505.fenrus.org> Message-ID: <200701011359.39849.lamont@gurulabs.com> On Monday 01 January 2007 01:46pm, Arjan van de Ven wrote: > > Are you certain the proc(s) really does/do support nx? Intel chips are > > infamous for reporting flags for features that they don't actually > > support. For example, on this notebook: > > > > # grep flags /proc/cpuinfo > > flags : fpu vme de pse tsc msr pae mce cx8 mtrr pge mca cmov > > pat pse36 clflush dts acpi mmx fxsr sse sse2 ss ht tm > > > > I know for certain that this proc does not support HyperThreading or PAE, > > but there they are anyway. > > your cpu DOES support PAE.... (really, it won't report it otherwise) This CPU is a nearly 5 year old mobile Pentium4 (1.9GHz). I know that PAE Xen kernels won't work on here whereas the non-PAE ones do. Also, I didn't think any of the Pentium 4's suppored PAE until sometime in the last year or two. > And it supports HT reporting (that is what "ht" means, it supports > reporting the number of siblings via cpuid, it's a very common > misperception of people to think it means your cpu has 2 hyperthreading > threads) OK. I can see that. Thanks for the info. -- Lamont Peterson Senior Instructor Guru Labs, L.C. [ http://www.GuruLabs.com/ ] NOTE: All messages from this email address should be digitally signed with my 0xDC0DD409 GPG key. It is available on the pgp.mit.edu keyserver as well as other keyservers that sync with MIT's. -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 189 bytes Desc: not available URL: From davej at redhat.com Tue Jan 2 00:26:35 2007 From: davej at redhat.com (Dave Jones) Date: Mon, 1 Jan 2007 19:26:35 -0500 Subject: To NX or not to NX In-Reply-To: <200701011359.39849.lamont@gurulabs.com> References: <20070101165606.58b923e0@lain.camperquake.de> <200701011334.42215.lamont@gurulabs.com> <1167684402.20929.1143.camel@laptopd505.fenrus.org> <200701011359.39849.lamont@gurulabs.com> Message-ID: <20070102002635.GA24298@redhat.com> On Mon, Jan 01, 2007 at 01:59:39PM -0700, Lamont Peterson wrote: > This CPU is a nearly 5 year old mobile Pentium4 (1.9GHz). I know that PAE Xen > kernels won't work on here whereas the non-PAE ones do. Sounds like a Xen bug. > Also, I didn't think > any of the Pentium 4's suppored PAE until sometime in the last year or two. PAE has been around since the Pentium Pro about 10 years ago. The only Intel CPUs not to have it since then have been a handful of mobile parts, which haven't reported it in cpuid flags. Dave -- http://www.codemonkey.org.uk From mcepl at redhat.com Tue Jan 2 09:13:47 2007 From: mcepl at redhat.com (Matej Cepl) Date: Tue, 2 Jan 2007 09:13:47 +0000 (UTC) Subject: Please make Evolution the default mailer References: <1144155199.2808.94.camel@dimi> <20060404131520.19567.qmail@hm196.locaweb.com.br> <20060412114214.GA28564@devserv.devel.redhat.com> <1144847486.6382.144.camel@dimi> <1144848525.2294.274.camel@sundaram.pnq.redhat.com> <1167210602.2786.38.camel@localhost.localdomain> <1167210880.2786.41.camel@localhost.localdomain> <1167239384.6753.3.camel@home-desk> <1167243602.1287.44.camel@dawkins> <4580.207.245.37.34.1167245384.squirrel@lattica.com> <459321B3.6040600@andrei.myip.org> <1167318220.6805.15.camel@gilboa-work-dev.localdomain> <1167377762.8348.5.camel@gilboa-home-dev.localdomain> <1167414097.2429.245.camel@localhost.localdomain> <1167425445.13150.5.camel@sioux.systems.cs.cornell.edu> <1167639784.2429.496.camel@localhost.localdomain> Message-ID: Lyvim Xaphir scripst: > Number one, you are a frakking gmail user, which says enough almost all > by itself; and you are not reading headers of his email, which says enough about you. Mat?j -- http://www.ceplovi.cz/matej/blog/, Jabber: ceplmajabber.cz GPG Finger: 89EF 4BC6 288A BF43 1BAB 25C3 E09F EF25 D964 84AC A nuclear war can ruin your whole day. From saikat at cs.cornell.edu Tue Jan 2 11:04:48 2007 From: saikat at cs.cornell.edu (Saikat Guha) Date: Tue, 02 Jan 2007 06:04:48 -0500 Subject: rawhide report: 20061219 changes In-Reply-To: <1167301190.26589.4.camel@rivendell> References: <200612191102.kBJB2Uku026538@hs20-bc2-6.build.redhat.com> <1167249600.2952.5.camel@sioux.systems.cs.cornell.edu> <1167301190.26589.4.camel@rivendell> Message-ID: <1167735888.19025.2.camel@sioux.systems.cs.cornell.edu> On Thu, 2006-12-28 at 11:19 +0100, Kjartan Maraas wrote: > ons, 27.12.2006 kl. 15.00 -0500, skrev Saikat Guha: > > Possibly related, but any access to files through gnome VFS seems to > > freeze the application. I cannot launch nautilus, do file>open in > > various apps (not all) and so on. > > > Please file bugs and attach gdb to the process while it's hung to get a > backtrace of it. For the list archives: The problem was actually caused by beagle not gracefully handling the newer evolution version. It is fixed in SVN. http://bugzilla.gnome.org/show_bug.cgi?id=391409 cheers, -- Saikat -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: signature.asc Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 189 bytes Desc: This is a digitally signed message part URL: From nicolas.mailhot at laposte.net Tue Jan 2 11:17:49 2007 From: nicolas.mailhot at laposte.net (Nicolas Mailhot) Date: Tue, 02 Jan 2007 12:17:49 +0100 Subject: LVM not fit for Fedora Core In-Reply-To: <200612261116.51019.lamont@gurulabs.com> References: <458B115B.7060606@cox.net> <200612242229.56799.lamont@gurulabs.com> <1167042303.22791.4.camel@gilboa-work-dev.localdomain> <200612261116.51019.lamont@gurulabs.com> Message-ID: <1167736669.7895.11.camel@rousalka.dyndns.org> Le mardi 26 d?cembre 2006 ? 11:16 -0700, Lamont Peterson a ?crit : > BTW, just for the benefit of those reading this in the archives in the future, > GRUB will work when /boot/ is on top of software RAID1, but it is rarely done > as one might have to alter the /boot/grub/grub.conf (/boot/grub/menu.lst on > all other distros) to read the correct disk the first one goes out. For > example, changing (hd0,0) to (hd1.0) throughout the file. It's done there and it works good. In case of hardware failure, the chances that hd1 is renumbered in hd0 are rather high (either because faulty hd0 was removed, it didn't answer the bios which dunked it, or you just changed bios boot order manually) If you have / on lvm and your small /boot partition raid-1 mirrored on every disk you use, suddenly you can plug your disks in any random number and things will just work (linux-side that is). Very magical, considering that other OS will fail at the slightest change (and there grub remapping tricks may help) -- Nicolas Mailhot -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: signature.asc Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 197 bytes Desc: Ceci est une partie de message num?riquement sign?e URL: From howard at cohtech.com Tue Jan 2 14:20:55 2007 From: howard at cohtech.com (Howard Wilkinson) Date: Tue, 02 Jan 2007 14:20:55 +0000 Subject: Need help wth kickstart setup of network devices. ifcfg files being renamed to .bak Message-ID: <459A6A47.7000503@cohtech.com> Can anybody point me to the code that is renaming the ifcfg- files I am creating in the post install part of kickstart. They end up as ifcfg.bak and get replaced by DHCP entries. As we run our servers with bonded interfaces I need to get these device to come up as slaves to the bond device which has a static address. I know this happens after the %post section has run and I am fairly sure it happens after the reboot and once the rc.sysinit hhas run for the first time. I do not have firstboot installed or any of the system-config-* packages so I have eliminated them from the path. I am fairly sure it is not anaconda itself that is doing this, but cannot for the life of me see where it could be happening. I am running a slightly extended FC6 install with minimal packages. From drepper at redhat.com Tue Jan 2 15:46:56 2007 From: drepper at redhat.com (Ulrich Drepper) Date: Tue, 02 Jan 2007 07:46:56 -0800 Subject: To NX or not to NX In-Reply-To: <200701011334.42215.lamont@gurulabs.com> References: <20070101165606.58b923e0@lain.camperquake.de> <200701011334.42215.lamont@gurulabs.com> Message-ID: <459A7E70.6040308@redhat.com> Lamont Peterson wrote: > I know for certain that this proc does not support HyperThreading or PAE, but > there they are anyway. The fact that the ht flag is available does not mean you have more than one context. It just means that the cpuid-based method to determine how many contexts (i.e., hyperthreads) you have is in place. For very old P4s this will just report 1, hence no second context for the core. -- ? Ulrich Drepper ? Red Hat, Inc. ? 444 Castro St ? Mountain View, CA ? -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: signature.asc Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 251 bytes Desc: OpenPGP digital signature URL: From howard at cohtech.com Tue Jan 2 17:34:44 2007 From: howard at cohtech.com (Howard Wilkinson) Date: Tue, 02 Jan 2007 17:34:44 +0000 Subject: Need help wth kickstart setup of network devices. ifcfg files being renamed to .bak In-Reply-To: <459A6A47.7000503@cohtech.com> References: <459A6A47.7000503@cohtech.com> Message-ID: <459A97B4.1070108@cohtech.com> OK I found it! The networking code in FC6 includes some clevers with HWADDR that reames the ifcfg file and writes its own version ... not sure why as I do not have the dhclient installed but there you go. Howard Wilkinson wrote: > Can anybody point me to the code that is renaming the ifcfg- > files I am creating in the post install part of kickstart. They end up > as ifcfg.bak and get replaced by DHCP entries. As we run our > servers with bonded interfaces I need to get these device to come up > as slaves to the bond device which has a static address. > > I know this happens after the %post section has run and I am fairly > sure it happens after the reboot and once the rc.sysinit hhas run for > the first time. I do not have firstboot installed or any of the > system-config-* packages so I have eliminated them from the path. I am > fairly sure it is not anaconda itself that is doing this, but cannot > for the life of me see where it could be happening. > > I am running a slightly extended FC6 install with minimal packages. > > _______________________________________________ > Anaconda-devel-list mailing list > Anaconda-devel-list at redhat.com > https://www.redhat.com/mailman/listinfo/anaconda-devel-list -- Howard Wilkinson Phone: +44(20)76907075 Coherent Technology Limited Fax: 23 Northampton Square, Mobile: +44(7980)639379 United Kingdom, EC1V 0HL Email: howard at cohtech.com -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From jaroslav at aster.pl Tue Jan 2 20:32:33 2007 From: jaroslav at aster.pl (Jaroslaw Gorny) Date: Tue, 2 Jan 2007 21:32:33 +0100 Subject: To NX or not to NX In-Reply-To: <20070102002635.GA24298@redhat.com> References: <20070101165606.58b923e0@lain.camperquake.de> <200701011359.39849.lamont@gurulabs.com> <20070102002635.GA24298@redhat.com> Message-ID: <200701022132.40541.jaroslav@aster.pl> Dnia wtorek, 2 stycznia 2007 01:26, Dave Jones napisa?: > > > Also, I didn't think > > any of the Pentium 4's suppored PAE until sometime in the last year or > > two. > > PAE has been around since the Pentium Pro about 10 years ago. > The only Intel CPUs not to have it since then have been a handful of > mobile parts, which haven't reported it in cpuid flags. A quote from http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Physical_Address_Extension: PAE is provided by Intel Pentium Pro and above CPUs (including all later Pentium-series processors except the 400 MHz bus versions on the Pentium M), regards, -- Jaroslaw Gorny -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 189 bytes Desc: not available URL: From sdl.web at gmail.com Tue Jan 2 22:33:18 2007 From: sdl.web at gmail.com (Leo) Date: Tue, 02 Jan 2007 22:33:18 +0000 Subject: DPI in intel modesetting driver Message-ID: Hi all, [A thread started by me in xorg mailing list on setting a 96x96 DPI: http://permalink.gmane.org/gmane.comp.freedesktop.xorg/14115] So far I haven't got any decent solution. Passing an argument to X or adding a 'Monitor' section in xorg.conf seems backwards. Thus I think it deserves to be fixed by autodetecting i.e. DPI should come out correctly by system-config-display. Could anyone run `xdpyinfo|grep resolution' to see if your DPI is set correctly? Since gnome will adjust it to 96x96, you won't see any difference no matter what value you get. But in other WMs, you will see the difference for example, the font size could appear to be too large or too small. Mine is: ,----[ xdpyinfo|grep resolution ] | resolution: 75x75 dots per inch `---- Thanks. -- Leo (GPG Key: 9283AA3F) From tjswan at gmail.com Wed Jan 3 00:31:44 2007 From: tjswan at gmail.com (T Swan) Date: Wed, 3 Jan 2007 00:31:44 +0000 (UTC) Subject: FC6 on a HP DC7700 References: <1164306923.3147.1.camel@laptopd505.fenrus.org> Message-ID: Gianluca Sforna gmail.com> writes: > > On 11/26/06, Gianluca Sforna gmail.com> wrote: > > > > with acpi=off I can reach anaconda, but the slowness is there despite > I'm not using anymore PS/2 peripherals > > I hope this is somewhat useful... > After a BIOS flash, my dc7700 will run w/ or w/o acpi enabled, but it feels like it is running at 300MHz or less. Starting udev takes almost 5 minutes. From mk at crc.dk Wed Jan 3 07:26:05 2007 From: mk at crc.dk (Mogens Kjaer) Date: Wed, 03 Jan 2007 08:26:05 +0100 Subject: FC6 on a HP DC7700 In-Reply-To: References: <1164306923.3147.1.camel@laptopd505.fenrus.org> Message-ID: <459B5A8D.2040402@crc.dk> T Swan wrote: ... > After a BIOS flash, my dc7700 will run w/ or w/o acpi enabled, but it feels like > it is running at 300MHz or less. > > Starting udev takes almost 5 minutes. My dc7700 works ok. I boot with acpi=off hda=noprobe hdc=noprobe Mogens -- Mogens Kjaer, Carlsberg A/S, Computer Department Gamle Carlsberg Vej 10, DK-2500 Valby, Denmark Phone: +45 33 27 53 25, Fax: +45 33 27 47 08 Email: mk at crc.dk Homepage: http://www.crc.dk From nicu_fedora at nicubunu.ro Wed Jan 3 07:27:44 2007 From: nicu_fedora at nicubunu.ro (Nicu Buculei) Date: Wed, 03 Jan 2007 09:27:44 +0200 Subject: [Offtopic] Rather amusing diagram on wikipedia In-Reply-To: <20061231195953.9b5546a6.fedora@wir-sind-cool.org> References: <4597A227.6030207@redhat.com> <200612311734.05425.jamatos@fc.up.pt> <20061231195953.9b5546a6.fedora@wir-sind-cool.org> Message-ID: <459B5AF0.8070603@nicubunu.ro> Michael Schwendt wrote: > On Sun, 31 Dec 2006 17:34:05 +0000, Jos? Matos wrote: > >> On Sunday 31 December 2006 11:42 am, Warren Togami wrote: >>> In any case, it should be the Fedora Project itself making an official >>> org chart instead of some unknown person posting this kind of thing. >> Do you realise that you are talking about wikipedia, right? ;-) > > http://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Fedora_Project&action=history > > | 06:43, 29 April 2006 Nicubunu (Talk | contribs) (replaced the diagram to > | reflect the current structure. the new one is SVG.) > > He's a Fedora Arts contributor, unless this is a strange coincidence in > choice of nicknames. Indeed, it was made by me under Rahul's guidance and received a kind of blessing from Max Spevack - https://www.redhat.com/archives/fedora-marketing-list/2006-April/msg00178.html In the meantime the structure of the project evolved, but at the time (April 2007) it was accurate. -- nicu Cool Fedora wallpapers: http://fedora.nicubunu.ro/wallpapers/ Open Clip Art Library: http://www.openclipart.org my Fedora stuff: http://fedora.nicubunu.ro From louisg00 at bellsouth.net Wed Jan 3 08:14:48 2007 From: louisg00 at bellsouth.net (Louis E Garcia II) Date: Wed, 03 Jan 2007 03:14:48 -0500 Subject: To NX or not to NX Message-ID: <1167812088.3567.9.camel@sonlaptop> I just checked my laptop which is a core2duo with 1 gig of ram. WinXP reports PAE but fc6 installed non-PAE kernel. Would the PAE kernel be better for me or should I stick with the non-PAE? Obviously I don't need highmem support, will that be to much of a performance hit? model name : Intel(R) Core(TM)2 CPU T5500 @ 1.66GHz flags : fpu vme de pse tsc msr pae mce cx8 apic mtrr pge mca cmov pat pse36 clflush dts acpi mmx fxsr sse sse2 ss ht tm pbe nx lm constant_tsc pni monitor ds_cpl est tm2 cx16 xtpr lahf_lm -Louis From drago01 at gmail.com Wed Jan 3 10:01:32 2007 From: drago01 at gmail.com (dragoran) Date: Wed, 03 Jan 2007 11:01:32 +0100 Subject: To NX or not to NX In-Reply-To: <1167812088.3567.9.camel@sonlaptop> References: <1167812088.3567.9.camel@sonlaptop> Message-ID: <459B7EFC.9080705@gmail.com> I am using x86_64 on a opteron box and a core 2 duo laptop, but I see nothing about NX in dmesg (but cpuinfo reports it). From fedora at camperquake.de Wed Jan 3 11:13:46 2007 From: fedora at camperquake.de (Ralf Ertzinger) Date: Wed, 3 Jan 2007 12:13:46 +0100 Subject: To NX or not to NX In-Reply-To: <1167812088.3567.9.camel@sonlaptop> References: <1167812088.3567.9.camel@sonlaptop> Message-ID: <20070103121346.3478530a@lain.camperquake.de> Hi. On Wed, 03 Jan 2007 03:14:48 -0500, Louis E Garcia II wrote > reports PAE but fc6 installed non-PAE kernel. Would the PAE kernel be > better for me or should I stick with the non-PAE? Obviously I don't > need highmem support, will that be to much of a performance hit? The long and short of it seems to be that there simply is no PAE kernel in fedora (apart from the Xen-Kernels, which will not run without PAE). From drago01 at gmail.com Wed Jan 3 14:49:29 2007 From: drago01 at gmail.com (dragoran) Date: Wed, 03 Jan 2007 15:49:29 +0100 Subject: The cdrecord debate In-Reply-To: <68720af30701010831j588f5ff5wd821b3ffad11e306@mail.gmail.com> References: <68720af30701010831j588f5ff5wd821b3ffad11e306@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <459BC279.8000907@gmail.com> Paulo Cavalcanti schrieb: >> for me it works using plextor 755A (as user and root). (but have not >> tested > with the current kernel release) > >> but for some reason cdrecord -scanbus does not work: > > > You need to pass dev=ATA. The simplest way > is creating an alias like this, if you use tcsh: > > alias cdrecord 'cdrecord dev=ATA \!*' > > /Paulo Roma. > thx passing dev=ATA works fine that means that I have no problems with cdrecord on my system. From dwmw2 at infradead.org Wed Jan 3 15:30:56 2007 From: dwmw2 at infradead.org (David Woodhouse) Date: Wed, 03 Jan 2007 15:30:56 +0000 Subject: [OT] Re: Move Evolution to Extras? In-Reply-To: <1167311674.16672.10.camel@hillary> References: <1144155199.2808.94.camel@dimi> <20060404131520.19567.qmail@hm196.locaweb.com.br> <20060412114214.GA28564@devserv.devel.redhat.com> <1144847486.6382.144.camel@dimi> <1144848525.2294.274.camel@sundaram.pnq.redhat.com> <1167210602.2786.38.camel@localhost.localdomain> <1167210880.2786.41.camel@localhost.localdomain> <1167239384.6753.3.camel@home-desk> <1167243602.1287.44.camel@dawkins> <4580.207.245.37.34.1167245384.squirrel@lattica.com> <459321B3.6040600@andrei.myip.org> <47263.74.96.19.63.1167283210.squirrel@lattica.com> <1167311674.16672.10.camel@hillary> Message-ID: <1167838256.22068.474.camel@pmac.infradead.org> On Fri, 2006-12-29 at 00:14 +1100, Ben Stringer wrote: > Have you confirmed other people have this problem? Evolution is sending > email fine for me under FC6. What error do you receive when you try and > send? An irrelevant question with Evolution, which doesn't actually report the errors correctly anyway -- it makes up its own instead of reporting what the server said. (GNOME bug #248873, filed in 2003. Closed 'NOTABUG' by Ximian crackmonkey but later reopened). -- dwmw2 From cmadams at hiwaay.net Wed Jan 3 16:07:24 2007 From: cmadams at hiwaay.net (Chris Adams) Date: Wed, 3 Jan 2007 10:07:24 -0600 Subject: To NX or not to NX In-Reply-To: <20070103121346.3478530a@lain.camperquake.de> References: <1167812088.3567.9.camel@sonlaptop> <20070103121346.3478530a@lain.camperquake.de> Message-ID: <20070103160724.GC680902@hiwaay.net> Once upon a time, Ralf Ertzinger said: > The long and short of it seems to be that there simply is no PAE > kernel in fedora (apart from the Xen-Kernels, which will not run > without PAE). That is not correct: both FC6-release and FC6-updates have kernel-PAE.i686. -- Chris Adams Systems and Network Administrator - HiWAAY Internet Services I don't speak for anybody but myself - that's enough trouble. From jaroslav at aster.pl Wed Jan 3 16:09:53 2007 From: jaroslav at aster.pl (Jaroslaw Gorny) Date: Wed, 3 Jan 2007 17:09:53 +0100 Subject: DPI in intel modesetting driver In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <200701031709.53801.jaroslav@aster.pl> Hi, Dnia wtorek, 2 stycznia 2007 23:33, Leo napisa?: > > Could anyone run `xdpyinfo|grep resolution' to see if your DPI is set > correctly? I got: [jaroslav at moonstone ~]$ xdpyinfo|grep resolution resolution: 129x126 dots per inch but I still (FC6) have to use 915resolution patch to hack video BIOS mode and get native resolution (1680x1050). my card is: 00:02.1 Display controller: Intel Corporation Mobile 945GM/GMS/940GML Express Integrated Graphics Controller (rev 03) regards, -- Jaroslaw Gorny -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 189 bytes Desc: not available URL: From katzj at redhat.com Wed Jan 3 16:22:51 2007 From: katzj at redhat.com (Jeremy Katz) Date: Wed, 03 Jan 2007 11:22:51 -0500 Subject: DPI in intel modesetting driver In-Reply-To: <200701031709.53801.jaroslav@aster.pl> References: <200701031709.53801.jaroslav@aster.pl> Message-ID: <1167841371.14822.17.camel@aglarond.local> On Wed, 2007-01-03 at 17:09 +0100, Jaroslaw Gorny wrote: > but I still (FC6) have to use 915resolution patch to hack video BIOS mode and > get native resolution (1680x1050). Does the "intel" driver not work (as opposed to i810)? Jeremy From pbrobinson at gmail.com Wed Jan 3 16:32:41 2007 From: pbrobinson at gmail.com (Peter Robinson) Date: Wed, 3 Jan 2007 16:32:41 +0000 Subject: DPI in intel modesetting driver In-Reply-To: <1167841371.14822.17.camel@aglarond.local> References: <200701031709.53801.jaroslav@aster.pl> <1167841371.14822.17.camel@aglarond.local> Message-ID: <5256d0b0701030832r2331ed48tab5290ed0f7d6cbb@mail.gmail.com> > > but I still (FC6) have to use 915resolution patch to hack video BIOS mode and > > get native resolution (1680x1050). > > Does the "intel" driver not work (as opposed to i810)? On my Dell Latitude D620 the intel driver when last tested doesn't work and I need the 915resolution hack and i810 driver for it to work. There was this bug that was at one stage being used for tracking issues when the modsetting driver was first added to the drivers https://bugzilla.redhat.com/bugzilla/show_bug.cgi?id=198062 00:02.0 VGA compatible controller: Intel Corporation Mobile 945GM/GMS/940GML Express Integrated Graphics Controller (rev 03) Peter From fedora at camperquake.de Wed Jan 3 16:36:10 2007 From: fedora at camperquake.de (Ralf Ertzinger) Date: Wed, 3 Jan 2007 17:36:10 +0100 Subject: DPI in intel modesetting driver In-Reply-To: <1167841371.14822.17.camel@aglarond.local> References: <200701031709.53801.jaroslav@aster.pl> <1167841371.14822.17.camel@aglarond.local> Message-ID: <20070103173610.16627020@lain.camperquake.de> Hi. On Wed, 03 Jan 2007 11:22:51 -0500, Jeremy Katz wrote > Does the "intel" driver not work (as opposed to i810)? According to the manual page, the intel driver does not support this chip. Even if it did: what is the difference between the drivers? From fedora at camperquake.de Wed Jan 3 16:36:46 2007 From: fedora at camperquake.de (Ralf Ertzinger) Date: Wed, 3 Jan 2007 17:36:46 +0100 Subject: To NX or not to NX In-Reply-To: <20070103160724.GC680902@hiwaay.net> References: <1167812088.3567.9.camel@sonlaptop> <20070103121346.3478530a@lain.camperquake.de> <20070103160724.GC680902@hiwaay.net> Message-ID: <20070103173646.2246b7a6@lain.camperquake.de> Hi. On Wed, 3 Jan 2007 10:07:24 -0600, Chris Adams wrote > That is not correct: both FC6-release and FC6-updates have > kernel-PAE.i686. Ah, indeed. I stand corrected. From jkeating at redhat.com Wed Jan 3 16:46:21 2007 From: jkeating at redhat.com (Jesse Keating) Date: Wed, 3 Jan 2007 11:46:21 -0500 Subject: DPI in intel modesetting driver In-Reply-To: <20070103173610.16627020@lain.camperquake.de> References: <1167841371.14822.17.camel@aglarond.local> <20070103173610.16627020@lain.camperquake.de> Message-ID: <200701031146.24614.jkeating@redhat.com> On Wednesday 03 January 2007 11:36, Ralf Ertzinger wrote: > Even if it did: what is the difference between the drivers? 'intel' is the modesetting branch of the code. 'i810' is not. -- Jesse Keating Release Engineer: Fedora -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 189 bytes Desc: not available URL: From pbrobinson at gmail.com Wed Jan 3 16:50:37 2007 From: pbrobinson at gmail.com (Peter Robinson) Date: Wed, 3 Jan 2007 16:50:37 +0000 Subject: DPI in intel modesetting driver In-Reply-To: <20070103173610.16627020@lain.camperquake.de> References: <200701031709.53801.jaroslav@aster.pl> <1167841371.14822.17.camel@aglarond.local> <20070103173610.16627020@lain.camperquake.de> Message-ID: <5256d0b0701030850v6aee6590va9d5ef86f25b095f@mail.gmail.com> On 1/3/07, Ralf Ertzinger wrote: > Hi. > > On Wed, 03 Jan 2007 11:22:51 -0500, Jeremy Katz wrote > > > Does the "intel" driver not work (as opposed to i810)? > > According to the manual page, the intel driver does not support > this chip. > > Even if it did: what is the difference between the drivers? The 'intel' driver is the new 'i810' driver with all the new funky stuff such as modesetting (setup all the mode without relying on the bios). See http://wiki.x.org/wiki/IntelGraphicsDriver for details. Peter From david at lovesunix.net Wed Jan 3 17:06:40 2007 From: david at lovesunix.net (David Nielsen) Date: Wed, 03 Jan 2007 18:06:40 +0100 Subject: The cdrecord debate In-Reply-To: <459BC279.8000907@gmail.com> References: <68720af30701010831j588f5ff5wd821b3ffad11e306@mail.gmail.com> <459BC279.8000907@gmail.com> Message-ID: <1167844000.3135.4.camel@dawkins> ons, 03 01 2007 kl. 15:49 +0100, skrev dragoran: > Paulo Cavalcanti schrieb: > >> for me it works using plextor 755A (as user and root). (but have not > >> tested > > with the current kernel release) > > > >> but for some reason cdrecord -scanbus does not work: > > > > > > You need to pass dev=ATA. The simplest way > > is creating an alias like this, if you use tcsh: > > > > alias cdrecord 'cdrecord dev=ATA \!*' > > > > /Paulo Roma. > > > thx passing dev=ATA works fine > that means that I have no problems with cdrecord on my system. You might not but that means everyone less smart than you will out of the box, do we like the look of that situation? Come people, burning should just work (tm) - David -- "Ridicule is the only weapon that can be used against unintelligible propositions. Ideas must be distinct before reason can act upon them.? -Thomas Jefferson -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: signature.asc Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 189 bytes Desc: Dette er en digitalt underskrevet brevdel URL: From tonynelson at georgeanelson.com Wed Jan 3 17:11:55 2007 From: tonynelson at georgeanelson.com (Tony Nelson) Date: Wed, 3 Jan 2007 12:11:55 -0500 Subject: FC6 on a HP DC7700 In-Reply-To: References: <1164306923.3147.1.camel@laptopd505.fenrus.org> Message-ID: At 12:31 AM +0000 1/3/07, T Swan wrote: >Gianluca Sforna gmail.com> writes: > >> >> On 11/26/06, Gianluca Sforna gmail.com> wrote: >> > >> >> with acpi=off I can reach anaconda, but the slowness is there despite >> I'm not using anymore PS/2 peripherals >> >> I hope this is somewhat useful... >> > >After a BIOS flash, my dc7700 will run w/ or w/o acpi enabled, but it >feels like it is running at 300MHz or less. > >Starting udev takes almost 5 minutes. Review the BIOS settings? Mine can get into a "safe mode" if it thinks booting failed, and that includes lowering the CPU clock speed as well as making the memory slower. -- ____________________________________________________________________ TonyN.:' ' From sertac.liste at gmail.com Wed Jan 3 17:36:44 2007 From: sertac.liste at gmail.com (=?utf-8?B?U2VydGHDpyDDli4gWcSxbGTEsXo=?=) Date: Wed, 3 Jan 2007 19:36:44 +0200 Subject: To NX or not to NX In-Reply-To: <1167812088.3567.9.camel@sonlaptop> References: <1167812088.3567.9.camel@sonlaptop> Message-ID: <20070103173644.GA3862@kerouac> * [03.Oca.07 03:14 -0500] Louis E Garcia II: > I just checked my laptop which is a core2duo with 1 gig of ram. WinXP > reports PAE but fc6 installed non-PAE kernel. Would the PAE kernel be > better for me or should I stick with the non-PAE? Obviously I don't need > highmem support, will that be to much of a performance hit? I?m sticking with non-PAE on my Core Duo (T2300) laptop, because the PAE kernel doesn?t have software suspend enabled. -- ~serta? From fedora at camperquake.de Wed Jan 3 18:07:43 2007 From: fedora at camperquake.de (Ralf Ertzinger) Date: Wed, 3 Jan 2007 19:07:43 +0100 Subject: To NX or not to NX In-Reply-To: <20070103173644.GA3862@kerouac> References: <1167812088.3567.9.camel@sonlaptop> <20070103173644.GA3862@kerouac> Message-ID: <20070103190743.6bd0fef8@lain.camperquake.de> Hi. On Wed, 3 Jan 2007 19:36:44 +0200, Serta? ?. Y?ld?z wrote > I?m sticking with non-PAE on my Core Duo (T2300) laptop, because the > PAE kernel doesn?t have software suspend enabled. kernel-PAE-2.6.19-1.2904 does, my notebook suspends and wakes up just fine. And NX is enabled. yay. From jaroslav at aster.pl Wed Jan 3 18:25:18 2007 From: jaroslav at aster.pl (Jaroslaw Gorny) Date: Wed, 3 Jan 2007 19:25:18 +0100 Subject: DPI in intel modesetting driver In-Reply-To: <1167841371.14822.17.camel@aglarond.local> References: <200701031709.53801.jaroslav@aster.pl> <1167841371.14822.17.camel@aglarond.local> Message-ID: <200701031925.25357.jaroslav@aster.pl> Hi, Dnia ?roda, 3 stycznia 2007 17:22, Jeremy Katz napisa?: > On Wed, 2007-01-03 at 17:09 +0100, Jaroslaw Gorny wrote: > > but I still (FC6) have to use 915resolution patch to hack video BIOS mode > > and get native resolution (1680x1050). > > Does the "intel" driver not work (as opposed to i810)? No, it doesn't. I've checked this 5 minutes ago. Rebooted my computer with 915resolution turned off. The 'intel' driver not only does _not_ set the proper resolution, it completely fails. As the X server starts, the whole screen goes black (but X is running all the time - no restart/respawn, etc.). If there's an interest I can provide Xorg.log, regards, -- Jaroslaw Gorny -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 189 bytes Desc: not available URL: From buildsys at redhat.com Wed Jan 3 19:08:51 2007 From: buildsys at redhat.com (buildsys at redhat.com) Date: Wed, 3 Jan 2007 14:08:51 -0500 Subject: rawhide report: 20060103 changes Message-ID: <200701031908.l03J8pY2014867@hs20-bc2-6.build.redhat.com> Updated Packages: aspell-12:0.60.5-1.fc7 ---------------------- * Tue Jan 02 2007 Ivana Varekova - 12:0.60.5-1 - update to 0.60.4 - cleanup spec file * Wed Nov 08 2006 Ivana Varekova - 12:0.60.4-1 - update to 0.60.4 * Wed Jul 12 2006 Jesse Keating - 12:0.60.3-7.1 - rebuild autofs-1:5.0.1-0.rc2.41 ----------------------- * Wed Dec 27 2006 Ian Kent - 5.0.1-0.rc2.41 - fix nonstrict multi-mount handling (bz 219383). - correct detection of duplicate indirect mount entries (bz 220799). cyrus-sasl-2.1.22-5 ------------------- * Tue Dec 05 2006 Nalin Dahyabhai 2.1.22-5 - rebuild - add 'authentication' or 'auxprop' to summaries for plugin packages to better indicate what the plugin provides - switch from automake 1.9 to automake 1.7 dev86-0.16.17-4.fc7 ------------------- * Wed Dec 27 2006 Jindrich Novy - 0.16.17-4 - bcc now searches in correct path for bcc-cpp on x86_64 (#219697) * Tue Dec 05 2006 Jindrich Novy - 0.16.17-3 - make the dev86 spec less tragic -> use macros, don't conflict on multiarches, add URL, fix BuildRoot, fix rpmlint warnings eclipse-cdt-1:3.1.1-6.fc7 ------------------------- * Mon Dec 11 2006 Jeff Johnstont 3.1.1-6 - Rebase autotools to 0.0.6 source. evolution-2.9.4-4.fc7 --------------------- * Sat Dec 30 2006 Matthew Barnes - 2.9.4-4.fc7 - Add Requires evolution-data-server-devel to devel subpackage (RH bug #218889). * Thu Dec 21 2006 Matthew Barnes - 2.9.4-3.fc7 - Add patch for RH bug #218898 (viewing message source). * Wed Dec 20 2006 Matthew Barnes - 2.9.4-2.fc7 - Revise patch for RH bug #202751 (printing of indic languages). fbset-2.1-23 ------------ * Tue Jan 02 2007 David Woodhouse - 2.1-23 - Fix man page syntax error gcc-4.1.1-49 ------------ * Tue Jan 02 2007 Jakub Jelinek 4.1.1-49 - update from gcc-4_1-branch (-r120062:120325) - PRs debug/26964, fortran/30200, libfortran/30145 - fix endless recursion in negate_expr/fold_unary (PR middle-end/30286) - fix cpp problem on empty source files (Tom Tromey, PR preprocessor/30001) - improve constructor disambiguation (Mark Mitchell, PR c++/28261, PR c++/29535) - fix handling of non-NULL attribute on nested functions (Andrew Pinski, PR tree-opt/30045) - fix ICE with friend templatized static member function (PR c++/29054) gdb-6.5-22.fc7 -------------- * Sat Dec 30 2006 Jan Kratochvil - 6.5-22 - Fix unwinding crash on older gcj(1) code (extended CFI support) (BZ 165025). - Include testcase for the readline history of input mode commands (BZ 215816). gnome-pilot-conduits-2.0.15-3.fc7 --------------------------------- * Sat Dec 30 2006 Matthew Barnes - 2.0.15-3.fc7 - Remove Prereq: /sbin/install-info (RH bug #220520). gnome-python2-2.16.2-5.fc7 -------------------------- * Sun Dec 31 2006 Matthew Barnes - 2.16.2-5 - Bonobo subpackage requires pyorbit >= 2.0.1, not 2.0.l (RH bug #150885). hal-cups-utils-0.6.3-1.fc7 -------------------------- * Tue Jan 02 2007 Tim Waugh 0.6.3-1 - 0.6.3: - Put PPD NickName in info line instead of just 'Added by HAL'. - Don't add/remove new printer if one already exists with a matching URI. * Sun Dec 17 2006 Tim Waugh - Use 'hp:' URIs when appropriate (bug #175555). - Added syslogging to hal_lpadmin. kernel-2.6.19-1.2904.fc7 ------------------------ * Mon Jan 01 2007 Dave Jones - 2.6.20rc3 * Mon Jan 01 2007 David Woodhouse - Fix fallout from half-baked upstream IBM vSCSI patch * Mon Jan 01 2007 David Woodhouse - Fix BUG() in assembler in PowerPC - Fix Maple IDE IRQ m17n-db-1.3.3-44.fc7 -------------------- * Tue Jan 02 2007 Mayank Jain - Resolves: Bug 221122: [hi_IN-remington] vowels in hi-remington are not typed correctly net-tools-1.60-75.fc7 --------------------- * Wed Dec 27 2006 Radek Vok??l - 1.60-76 - fix arp unaligned access (#220438) netpbm-10.35-9.fc7 ------------------ * Thu Dec 28 2006 Jindrich Novy 10.35-9 - pbmtog3 won't segfault on 64bit arches (#220739) * Tue Dec 19 2006 Jindrich Novy 10.35-8 - remove bogus man pages (#220112, #220113) - overflow2() no more conflicts with libgd.so (#216116) - fix BuildRoot * Thu Oct 12 2006 Jindrich Novy 10.35-7 - remove note about OSL 1 licensing from COPYRIGHT.PATENT file policycoreutils-1.33.6-9.fc7 ---------------------------- * Tue Jan 02 2007 Dan Walsh 1.33.6-9 - Fix fixfiles script to use tty command correctly. If this command fails, it should set the LOGFILE to /dev/null Resolves: #220879 psacct-6.3.2-42.fc7 ------------------- * Tue Jan 02 2007 Ivana Varekova - 6.3.2-42 - Resolves: 221069 (fix lastcomm man page) - spec file cleanup pygtk2-2.10.3-7.fc7 ------------------- * Sat Dec 30 2006 Matthew Barnes - 2.10.3-7.fc7 - Add Requires pkgconfig to devel subpackage. scim-bridge-0.4.9-1.fc7 ----------------------- * Tue Jan 02 2007 Jens Petersen - 0.4.9-1 - update to 0.4.9 - fixes hanging agent processes (#210772) - fixes movement of preedit with clicking (#217329) - no longer need scim-bridge-0.4.8-qt-moc-path.patch and scim-bridge-0.4.8-tests-dir-missing.patch - protect update-gtk-immodules in %post and %postun selinux-policy-2.4.6-21.fc7 --------------------------- * Mon Jan 29 2007 Dan Walsh 2.4.6-21 - Allow spamassassin to read var_lib_t dir Resolves: #219234 * Fri Dec 29 2006 Dan Walsh 2.4.6-20 - fix mplayer to work under strict policy - Allow iptables to use nscd Resolves: #220794 * Thu Dec 28 2006 Dan Walsh 2.4.6-19 - Add gconf policy and make it work with strict system-config-printer-0.7.45-1.fc7 ---------------------------------- * Wed Jan 03 2007 Tim Waugh 0.7.45-1 - Updated to pycups-1.9.17. - 0.7.45: - Fixed traceback in driver check. * Tue Jan 02 2007 Tim Waugh 0.7.44-1 - 0.7.44: - Fixed traceback in error display (bug #220136). - Preserve case in model string when dumping debug output. tar-2:1.15.1-24.fc7 ------------------- * Wed Jan 03 2007 Peter Vrabec 2:1.15.1-24 - supply tar man page (#219375) uucp-1.07-13.fc7 ---------------- * Wed Jan 03 2007 Peter Vrabec 1.07-13 - spec file improvements (#220534) vixie-cron-4:4.1-68.fc7 ----------------------- * Thu Dec 14 2006 Dan Walsh - 4:4.1-68 - Patch to run vixie-cron with mls correctly Broken deps for s390 ---------------------------------------------------------- systemtap - 0.5.10-1.fc7.s390 requires kernel >= 0:2.6.9-11 systemtap-runtime - 0.5.10-1.fc7.s390 requires kernel >= 0:2.6.9-11 From sertac.liste at gmail.com Wed Jan 3 19:16:57 2007 From: sertac.liste at gmail.com (=?utf-8?B?U2VydGHDpyDDli4gWcSxbGTEsXo=?=) Date: Wed, 3 Jan 2007 21:16:57 +0200 Subject: To NX or not to NX In-Reply-To: <20070103190743.6bd0fef8@lain.camperquake.de> References: <1167812088.3567.9.camel@sonlaptop> <20070103173644.GA3862@kerouac> <20070103190743.6bd0fef8@lain.camperquake.de> Message-ID: <20070103191657.GB3862@kerouac> * [03.Oca.07 19:07 +0100] Ralf Ertzinger: > On Wed, 3 Jan 2007 19:36:44 +0200, Serta? ?. Y?ld?z wrote > > I?m sticking with non-PAE on my Core Duo (T2300) laptop, because the > > PAE kernel doesn?t have software suspend enabled. > > kernel-PAE-2.6.19-1.2904 does, my notebook suspends and wakes up just > fine. It?s not enabled for FC6 kernels which are still 2.6.18 based: https://bugzilla.redhat.com/bugzilla/show_bug.cgi?id=215396 -- ~serta? From jaroslav at aster.pl Wed Jan 3 21:40:16 2007 From: jaroslav at aster.pl (Jaroslaw Gorny) Date: Wed, 3 Jan 2007 22:40:16 +0100 Subject: musicpd Message-ID: <200701032240.24068.jaroslav@aster.pl> Hi, sorry if the question should be sent somewhere else: Extras repository contains clients for musicpd (http://www.musicpd.org): mpc, ncmpc, gmpc, but ther daemon itself ('mpd') is not present (neither in Extras nor in Core). it there a particular reason for that? Without mpd this clients are rather unusable. -- Jaroslaw Gorny -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 189 bytes Desc: not available URL: From kaboom at oobleck.net Wed Jan 3 21:46:14 2007 From: kaboom at oobleck.net (Chris Ricker) Date: Wed, 3 Jan 2007 16:46:14 -0500 (EST) Subject: musicpd In-Reply-To: <200701032240.24068.jaroslav@aster.pl> References: <200701032240.24068.jaroslav@aster.pl> Message-ID: On Wed, 3 Jan 2007, Jaroslaw Gorny wrote: > Hi, > sorry if the question should be sent somewhere else: > > Extras repository contains clients for musicpd (http://www.musicpd.org): mpc, > ncmpc, gmpc, but ther daemon itself ('mpd') is not present (neither in Extras > nor in Core). > it there a particular reason for that? Without mpd this clients are rather > unusable. it's in livna later, chris From jaroslav at aster.pl Wed Jan 3 22:33:27 2007 From: jaroslav at aster.pl (Jaroslaw Gorny) Date: Wed, 3 Jan 2007 23:33:27 +0100 Subject: musicpd In-Reply-To: References: <200701032240.24068.jaroslav@aster.pl> Message-ID: <200701032333.33944.jaroslav@aster.pl> Dnia ?roda, 3 stycznia 2007 22:46, Chris Ricker napisa?: > On Wed, 3 Jan 2007, Jaroslaw Gorny wrote: > > Hi, > > sorry if the question should be sent somewhere else: > > > > Extras repository contains clients for musicpd (http://www.musicpd.org): > > mpc, ncmpc, gmpc, but ther daemon itself ('mpd') is not present (neither > > in Extras nor in Core). > > it there a particular reason for that? Without mpd this clients are > > rather unusable. > > it's in livna Yes. In 'freshrpms' too. But why have _clients_ in Fedora repositories then? IMHO it is like having sane-frontends in Fedora but sane-backends in livna - it just doesn't make any sense. regards, -- Jaroslaw Gorny -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 189 bytes Desc: not available URL: From davej at redhat.com Wed Jan 3 22:58:24 2007 From: davej at redhat.com (Dave Jones) Date: Wed, 3 Jan 2007 17:58:24 -0500 Subject: To NX or not to NX In-Reply-To: <20070103191657.GB3862@kerouac> References: <1167812088.3567.9.camel@sonlaptop> <20070103173644.GA3862@kerouac> <20070103190743.6bd0fef8@lain.camperquake.de> <20070103191657.GB3862@kerouac> Message-ID: <20070103225824.GA11354@redhat.com> On Wed, Jan 03, 2007 at 09:16:57PM +0200, Serta? ?. Y?ld?z wrote: > * [03.Oca.07 19:07 +0100] Ralf Ertzinger: > > On Wed, 3 Jan 2007 19:36:44 +0200, Serta? ?. Y?ld?z wrote > > > I?m sticking with non-PAE on my Core Duo (T2300) laptop, because the > > > PAE kernel doesn?t have software suspend enabled. > > > > kernel-PAE-2.6.19-1.2904 does, my notebook suspends and wakes up just > > fine. > > It?s not enabled for FC6 kernels which are still 2.6.18 based: > https://bugzilla.redhat.com/bugzilla/show_bug.cgi?id=215396 There's a 2.6.19 based update in the works, should be out next week. Dave -- http://www.codemonkey.org.uk From david at lovesunix.net Wed Jan 3 23:09:56 2007 From: david at lovesunix.net (David Nielsen) Date: Thu, 04 Jan 2007 00:09:56 +0100 Subject: musicpd In-Reply-To: <200701032333.33944.jaroslav@aster.pl> References: <200701032240.24068.jaroslav@aster.pl> <200701032333.33944.jaroslav@aster.pl> Message-ID: <1167865796.3135.7.camel@dawkins> ons, 03 01 2007 kl. 23:33 +0100, skrev Jaroslaw Gorny: > Dnia ?roda, 3 stycznia 2007 22:46, Chris Ricker napisa?: > > On Wed, 3 Jan 2007, Jaroslaw Gorny wrote: > > > Hi, > > > sorry if the question should be sent somewhere else: > > > > > > Extras repository contains clients for musicpd (http://www.musicpd.org): > > > mpc, ncmpc, gmpc, but ther daemon itself ('mpd') is not present (neither > > > in Extras nor in Core). > > > it there a particular reason for that? Without mpd this clients are > > > rather unusable. > > > > it's in livna > > Yes. In 'freshrpms' too. But why have _clients_ in Fedora repositories then? > IMHO it is like having sane-frontends in Fedora but sane-backends in livna - > it just doesn't make any sense. It might be that mpd is designed in such a way that it directly depends on things we can't ship like an mp3 decoder. Thus it needs to be in Livna (one could argue that the clients then also should be in Livna). - David -- "Ridicule is the only weapon that can be used against unintelligible propositions. Ideas must be distinct before reason can act upon them.? -Thomas Jefferson -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: signature.asc Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 189 bytes Desc: Dette er en digitalt underskrevet brevdel URL: From peter at thecodergeek.com Thu Jan 4 03:10:21 2007 From: peter at thecodergeek.com (Peter Gordon) Date: Wed, 03 Jan 2007 19:10:21 -0800 Subject: musicpd In-Reply-To: <1167865796.3135.7.camel@dawkins> References: <200701032240.24068.jaroslav@aster.pl> <200701032333.33944.jaroslav@aster.pl> <1167865796.3135.7.camel@dawkins> Message-ID: <1167880221.3457.1.camel@localhost> On Thu, 2007-01-04 at 00:09 +0100, David Nielsen wrote: > It might be that mpd is designed in such a way that it directly depends > on things we can't ship like an mp3 decoder. Thus it needs to be in > Livna (one could argue that the clients then also should be in Livna). Exactly the case, as I understand it. It needs libmad (MP3-decoding library) an includes an internal copy of it in the main source tarball. -- Peter Gordon (codergeek42) GnuPG Public Key ID: 0xFFC19479 / Fingerprint: DD68 A414 56BD 6368 D957 9666 4268 CB7A FFC1 9479 My Blog: http://thecodergeek.com/blog/ -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: signature.asc Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 189 bytes Desc: This is a digitally signed message part URL: From pmatilai at laiskiainen.org Thu Jan 4 07:26:57 2007 From: pmatilai at laiskiainen.org (Panu Matilainen) Date: Thu, 4 Jan 2007 09:26:57 +0200 (EET) Subject: To NX or not to NX In-Reply-To: <20070103225824.GA11354@redhat.com> References: <1167812088.3567.9.camel@sonlaptop> <20070103173644.GA3862@kerouac> <20070103190743.6bd0fef8@lain.camperquake.de> <20070103191657.GB3862@kerouac> <20070103225824.GA11354@redhat.com> Message-ID: On Wed, 3 Jan 2007, Dave Jones wrote: > On Wed, Jan 03, 2007 at 09:16:57PM +0200, Serta? ?. Y??ld??z wrote: > > * [03.Oca.07 19:07 +0100] Ralf Ertzinger: > > > On Wed, 3 Jan 2007 19:36:44 +0200, Serta? ?. Y??ld??z wrote > > > > I??m sticking with non-PAE on my Core Duo (T2300) laptop, because the > > > > PAE kernel doesn??t have software suspend enabled. > > > > > > kernel-PAE-2.6.19-1.2904 does, my notebook suspends and wakes up just > > > fine. > > > > It??s not enabled for FC6 kernels which are still 2.6.18 based: > > https://bugzilla.redhat.com/bugzilla/show_bug.cgi?id=215396 > > There's a 2.6.19 based update in the works, should be out next week. Will that update include a fix for the mmap file corruption bug? Pretty please? :) - Panu - From giallu at gmail.com Thu Jan 4 09:01:25 2007 From: giallu at gmail.com (Gianluca Sforna) Date: Thu, 4 Jan 2007 10:01:25 +0100 Subject: FC6 on a HP DC7700 In-Reply-To: References: <1164306923.3147.1.camel@laptopd505.fenrus.org> Message-ID: On 1/3/07, Tony Nelson wrote: > At 12:31 AM +0000 1/3/07, T Swan wrote: > >Gianluca Sforna gmail.com> writes: > > > >> > >> On 11/26/06, Gianluca Sforna gmail.com> wrote: > >> > > >> > >> with acpi=off I can reach anaconda, but the slowness is there despite > >> I'm not using anymore PS/2 peripherals > >> > >> I hope this is somewhat useful... > >> > > > >After a BIOS flash, my dc7700 will run w/ or w/o acpi enabled, but it > >feels like it is running at 300MHz or less. > > > >Starting udev takes almost 5 minutes. > > Review the BIOS settings? Mine can get into a "safe mode" if it thinks > booting failed, and that includes lowering the CPU clock speed as well as > making the memory slower. Are you saying you are running a Core 6 on a DC7700 without problems? From jfrieben at gmx.de Thu Jan 4 09:02:44 2007 From: jfrieben at gmx.de (Joachim Frieben) Date: Thu, 04 Jan 2007 10:02:44 +0100 Subject: To NX or not to NX In-Reply-To: <20070103225824.GA11354@redhat.com> References: <1167812088.3567.9.camel@sonlaptop> <20070103173644.GA3862@kerouac> <20070103190743.6bd0fef8@lain.camperquake.de> <20070103191657.GB3862@kerouac> <20070103225824.GA11354@redhat.com> Message-ID: <20070104090244.115940@gmx.net> -------- Original-Message -------- Date: Wed, 3 Jan 2007 17:58:24 -0500 From: Dave Jones To: fedora-devel-list at redhat.com Subject: Re: To NX or not to NX > > There's a 2.6.19 based update in the works, should be out next week. > > Dave For those interested, you can already grab a preview at: http://people.redhat.com/davej/kernels/Fedora/FC6/1.2887.fc6 "2.6.19-1.2887.fc6" did not settle my issues .. but maybe yours (?) -- Der GMX SmartSurfer hilft bis zu 70% Ihrer Onlinekosten zu sparen! Ideal f?r Modem und ISDN: http://www.gmx.net/de/go/smartsurfer From mk at crc.dk Thu Jan 4 09:06:09 2007 From: mk at crc.dk (Mogens Kjaer) Date: Thu, 04 Jan 2007 10:06:09 +0100 Subject: FC6 on a HP DC7700 In-Reply-To: References: <1164306923.3147.1.camel@laptopd505.fenrus.org> Message-ID: <459CC381.6020609@crc.dk> Gianluca Sforna wrote: ... > Are you saying you are running a Core 6 on a DC7700 without problems? > Except for audio, I am. With the "acpi=off hda=noprobe hdc=noprobe" boot options, used both during install (x86_64) and during normal boots. Mogens -- Mogens Kjaer, Carlsberg A/S, Computer Department Gamle Carlsberg Vej 10, DK-2500 Valby, Denmark Phone: +45 33 27 53 25, Fax: +45 33 27 47 08 Email: mk at crc.dk Homepage: http://www.crc.dk From tmus at tmus.dk Thu Jan 4 10:25:43 2007 From: tmus at tmus.dk (Thomas M Steenholdt) Date: Thu, 04 Jan 2007 11:25:43 +0100 Subject: whatever happened to the Alt+F2 installer shell? Message-ID: Hi... I'm having some problems installing using current rawhide boot.iso under VMware. It *seems like* there could be a regression in the pcnet32 driver or something, because it looks like the NIC is found but the network is down. However I cannot really look into the problem, because the Alt+F2 shell, that I would normally consult first to figure out what is going on, is blank/empty. Is this on purpose? I tried to search through this list, but cannot find anything. Anyone? /Thomas From arjan at fenrus.demon.nl Thu Jan 4 10:30:37 2007 From: arjan at fenrus.demon.nl (Arjan van de Ven) Date: Thu, 04 Jan 2007 02:30:37 -0800 Subject: musicpd In-Reply-To: <1167880221.3457.1.camel@localhost> References: <200701032240.24068.jaroslav@aster.pl> <200701032333.33944.jaroslav@aster.pl> <1167865796.3135.7.camel@dawkins> <1167880221.3457.1.camel@localhost> Message-ID: <1167906637.3402.99.camel@laptopd505.fenrus.org> On Wed, 2007-01-03 at 19:10 -0800, Peter Gordon wrote: > On Thu, 2007-01-04 at 00:09 +0100, David Nielsen wrote: > > It might be that mpd is designed in such a way that it directly depends > > on things we can't ship like an mp3 decoder. Thus it needs to be in > > Livna (one could argue that the clients then also should be in Livna). > > Exactly the case, as I understand it. It needs libmad (MP3-decoding > library) an includes an internal copy of it in the main source tarball. surely this can be fixed; I assume all it needs is an ID tag reader, not the actual sound decoding part. The ID tag stuff isn't patented, only the sound encoding/decoding, so in principle I'd think that such a program could be fully in Extras, even though it might mean a bit of surgery on the upstream tarbal ;( From arjan at fenrus.demon.nl Thu Jan 4 10:32:10 2007 From: arjan at fenrus.demon.nl (Arjan van de Ven) Date: Thu, 04 Jan 2007 02:32:10 -0800 Subject: whatever happened to the Alt+F2 installer shell? In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <1167906730.3402.101.camel@laptopd505.fenrus.org> On Thu, 2007-01-04 at 11:25 +0100, Thomas M Steenholdt wrote: > Hi... > > I'm having some problems installing using current rawhide boot.iso under > VMware. It *seems like* there could be a regression in the pcnet32 > driver or something, because it looks like the NIC is found but the > network is down. However I cannot really look into the problem, because > the Alt+F2 shell, that I would normally consult first to figure out what > is going on, is blank/empty. > Is this on purpose? I tried to search through this list, but cannot find > anything. I don't know at what stage you're trying this; but that shell is normally only available once anaconda has taken over from the loader (eg the loader first asks for keyboard and stuff and for the installer media, then it goes to find anaconda image there (stage2.img) and only when THAT is running will you get that shell) From tmus at tmus.dk Thu Jan 4 10:56:22 2007 From: tmus at tmus.dk (Thomas M Steenholdt) Date: Thu, 04 Jan 2007 11:56:22 +0100 Subject: whatever happened to the Alt+F2 installer shell? In-Reply-To: <1167906730.3402.101.camel@laptopd505.fenrus.org> References: <1167906730.3402.101.camel@laptopd505.fenrus.org> Message-ID: Arjan van de Ven wrote: > On Thu, 2007-01-04 at 11:25 +0100, Thomas M Steenholdt wrote: >> Hi... >> >> I'm having some problems installing using current rawhide boot.iso under >> VMware. It *seems like* there could be a regression in the pcnet32 >> driver or something, because it looks like the NIC is found but the >> network is down. However I cannot really look into the problem, because >> the Alt+F2 shell, that I would normally consult first to figure out what >> is going on, is blank/empty. >> Is this on purpose? I tried to search through this list, but cannot find >> anything. > > > I don't know at what stage you're trying this; but that shell is > normally only available once anaconda has taken over from the loader (eg > the loader first asks for keyboard and stuff and for the installer > media, then it goes to find anaconda image there (stage2.img) and only > when THAT is running will you get that shell) > Okay! That explains it, then. I'm on the boot.iso, which will load stage2 from an installation source. And since that can't happen, because my network appears *down* to the system, i can't get to the stage2 image. I'll try to think of other things to try to get this working. Thanks a lot. /Thomas From dwmw2 at infradead.org Thu Jan 4 11:15:04 2007 From: dwmw2 at infradead.org (David Woodhouse) Date: Thu, 04 Jan 2007 11:15:04 +0000 Subject: whatever happened to the Alt+F2 installer shell? In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <1167909304.18707.55.camel@shinybook.infradead.org> On Thu, 2007-01-04 at 11:25 +0100, Thomas M Steenholdt wrote: > I'm having some problems installing using current rawhide boot.iso > under VMware. It *seems like* there could be a regression in the > pcnet32 driver or something, because it looks like the NIC is found > but the network is down. It's not the network driver -- it's dhcp. Set the address manually and it should work OK. -- dwmw2 From tmus at tmus.dk Thu Jan 4 11:45:30 2007 From: tmus at tmus.dk (Thomas M Steenholdt) Date: Thu, 04 Jan 2007 12:45:30 +0100 Subject: whatever happened to the Alt+F2 installer shell? In-Reply-To: <1167909304.18707.55.camel@shinybook.infradead.org> References: <1167909304.18707.55.camel@shinybook.infradead.org> Message-ID: David Woodhouse wrote: > On Thu, 2007-01-04 at 11:25 +0100, Thomas M Steenholdt wrote: >> I'm having some problems installing using current rawhide boot.iso >> under VMware. It *seems like* there could be a regression in the >> pcnet32 driver or something, because it looks like the NIC is found >> but the network is down. > > It's not the network driver -- it's dhcp. Set the address manually and > it should work OK. > That doesn't seem to do it. On the Alt+F3 message screen, I get WARNING: no network link determined on eth0 Continuing anyway, with manual IPv4 addy, it fails after entering the details about my FTP source server. ERROR: cannot determine address family of ftpserver.local.net Also I tried monitoring the virtual network I'm using for this and there is no traffic from the fc7/rawhide VM. The same problem exists if using a virtual e1000 device instead of the default pcnet32, so it's probably not a driver problem anyway. Although I have to admit, that I don't have a lot of experience with the virtual e1000 card. I'll try and see if this problem exists on a random physical box too. /Thomas From dan at danny.cz Thu Jan 4 11:57:30 2007 From: dan at danny.cz (Dan =?ISO-8859-1?Q?Hor=E1k?=) Date: Thu, 04 Jan 2007 12:57:30 +0100 Subject: whatever happened to the Alt+F2 installer shell? In-Reply-To: References: <1167909304.18707.55.camel@shinybook.infradead.org> Message-ID: <1167911850.3561.9.camel@eagle.danny.cz> Thomas M Steenholdt p??e v ?t 04. 01. 2007 v 12:45 +0100: > David Woodhouse wrote: > > On Thu, 2007-01-04 at 11:25 +0100, Thomas M Steenholdt wrote: > >> I'm having some problems installing using current rawhide boot.iso > >> under VMware. It *seems like* there could be a regression in the > >> pcnet32 driver or something, because it looks like the NIC is found > >> but the network is down. > > > > It's not the network driver -- it's dhcp. Set the address manually and > > it should work OK. > > > > That doesn't seem to do it. > > On the Alt+F3 message screen, I get > > WARNING: no network link determined on eth0 There used to be a problem with networking on RHEL (or FC) virtual machines on VMware where the pcnet32 driver was reporting that there is no link. The workaround was to disable the link checking in the network startup scripts. Dan From tmus at tmus.dk Thu Jan 4 12:20:32 2007 From: tmus at tmus.dk (Thomas M Steenholdt) Date: Thu, 04 Jan 2007 13:20:32 +0100 Subject: whatever happened to the Alt+F2 installer shell? In-Reply-To: <1167909304.18707.55.camel@shinybook.infradead.org> References: <1167909304.18707.55.camel@shinybook.infradead.org> Message-ID: David Woodhouse wrote: > On Thu, 2007-01-04 at 11:25 +0100, Thomas M Steenholdt wrote: >> I'm having some problems installing using current rawhide boot.iso >> under VMware. It *seems like* there could be a regression in the >> pcnet32 driver or something, because it looks like the NIC is found >> but the network is down. > > It's not the network driver -- it's dhcp. Set the address manually and > it should work OK. > The problem is exactly the same on a physical box (e100 NIC). BZ'ed as #221392 /Thomas From tmus at tmus.dk Thu Jan 4 12:23:17 2007 From: tmus at tmus.dk (Thomas M Steenholdt) Date: Thu, 04 Jan 2007 13:23:17 +0100 Subject: whatever happened to the Alt+F2 installer shell? In-Reply-To: <1167911850.3561.9.camel@eagle.danny.cz> References: <1167909304.18707.55.camel@shinybook.infradead.org> <1167911850.3561.9.camel@eagle.danny.cz> Message-ID: Dan Hor?k wrote: > Thomas M Steenholdt p??e v ?t 04. 01. 2007 v 12:45 +0100: >> David Woodhouse wrote: >>> On Thu, 2007-01-04 at 11:25 +0100, Thomas M Steenholdt wrote: >>>> I'm having some problems installing using current rawhide boot.iso >>>> under VMware. It *seems like* there could be a regression in the >>>> pcnet32 driver or something, because it looks like the NIC is found >>>> but the network is down. >>> It's not the network driver -- it's dhcp. Set the address manually and >>> it should work OK. >>> >> That doesn't seem to do it. >> >> On the Alt+F3 message screen, I get >> >> WARNING: no network link determined on eth0 > > There used to be a problem with networking on RHEL (or FC) virtual > machines on VMware where the pcnet32 driver was reporting that there is > no link. The workaround was to disable the link checking in the network > startup scripts. > > > Dan > > That was fixed in the kernel ages ago. Also this problem appears on the virtual e1000 adapter as well as on my physical box with e100, so this does not appear to be the cause of the problem here. But it was was the same bug I was thinking of initially, when suggesting that it might be a regression in the pcnet32 driver. /Thomas From fedora at camperquake.de Thu Jan 4 12:45:57 2007 From: fedora at camperquake.de (Ralf Ertzinger) Date: Thu, 4 Jan 2007 13:45:57 +0100 Subject: musicpd In-Reply-To: <1167880221.3457.1.camel@localhost> References: <200701032240.24068.jaroslav@aster.pl> <200701032333.33944.jaroslav@aster.pl> <1167865796.3135.7.camel@dawkins> <1167880221.3457.1.camel@localhost> Message-ID: <20070104134557.19d73201@lain.camperquake.de> Hi. On Wed, 03 Jan 2007 19:10:21 -0800, Peter Gordon wrote > Exactly the case, as I understand it. It needs libmad (MP3-decoding > library) an includes an internal copy of it in the main source > tarball. The internal copy can be patched out, we do this for several other packages as well (audacious-plugins ships with audacious-plugins-fedora-x.x.x.tar.gz, which is the original tarball with problematic source removed. From mk at crc.dk Thu Jan 4 13:42:56 2007 From: mk at crc.dk (Mogens Kjaer) Date: Thu, 04 Jan 2007 14:42:56 +0100 Subject: FC6 on a HP DC7700 In-Reply-To: <459CC381.6020609@crc.dk> References: <1164306923.3147.1.camel@laptopd505.fenrus.org> <459CC381.6020609@crc.dk> Message-ID: <459D0460.6060404@crc.dk> Mogens Kjaer wrote: ... > With the "acpi=off hda=noprobe hdc=noprobe" boot options, > used both during install (x86_64) and during normal boots. I forgot: SATA emulation is set to IDE in the BIOS. Because of the hdx=noprobe options, the correct driver is loaded so the harddisk shows up as sda, and it runs with DMA. Mogens -- Mogens Kjaer, Carlsberg A/S, Computer Department Gamle Carlsberg Vej 10, DK-2500 Valby, Denmark Phone: +45 33 27 53 25, Fax: +45 33 27 47 08 Email: mk at crc.dk Homepage: http://www.crc.dk From promac at gmail.com Thu Jan 4 14:02:33 2007 From: promac at gmail.com (Paulo Cavalcanti) Date: Thu, 4 Jan 2007 12:02:33 -0200 Subject: musicpd Message-ID: <68720af30701040602n46618ebcp1785b2b44b8c7c6f@mail.gmail.com> > The internal copy can be patched out, we do this for several other > packages as well (audacious-plugins ships with > audacious-plugins-fedora-x.x.x.tar.gz, which is the original tarball with > problematic source removed. In my oppinion, if a package cannot be supplied because of patent issues, it should not be supplied at all. Let someone else do it. Otherwise,it is very difficult for a person that is not using RedHat for a long time to be able to set up audio-video applications. A lot of pieces of code come from different places. Fedora uses Livna to supply parts of what cannot be given "officially". This is one of the main reasons distributions, such as Ubuntu, became so popular (it is so much easier ....) /Paulo Roma. -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From jwboyer at jdub.homelinux.org Thu Jan 4 14:23:24 2007 From: jwboyer at jdub.homelinux.org (Josh Boyer) Date: Thu, 04 Jan 2007 08:23:24 -0600 Subject: musicpd In-Reply-To: <68720af30701040602n46618ebcp1785b2b44b8c7c6f@mail.gmail.com> References: <68720af30701040602n46618ebcp1785b2b44b8c7c6f@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <1167920604.3836.60.camel@zod.rchland.ibm.com> On Thu, 2007-01-04 at 12:02 -0200, Paulo Cavalcanti wrote: > > The internal copy can be patched out, we do this for several other > > packages as well (audacious-plugins ships with > > audacious-plugins-fedora-x.x.x.tar.gz, which is the original tarball with > > problematic source removed. > In my oppinion, if a package cannot be supplied because of patent > issues, it should not be supplied at all. Let someone else do it. Which is what Livna is doing... > Otherwise,it is very difficult for a person that is not using RedHat > for a long time > to be able to set up audio-video applications. A lot of pieces of code > come from different places. > Fedora uses Livna to supply parts of what cannot be given > "officially". No, _users_ configure the Livna repository. The Fedora project doesn't use Livna in any way. > > This is one of the main reasons distributions, such as Ubuntu, became > so popular (it is so much easier ....) Perhaps. But the goals for the two distributions differ. Ease and comfort of Ubuntu come at the cost of binary drivers and gray area decisions. josh From jdieter at gmail.com Thu Jan 4 15:15:11 2007 From: jdieter at gmail.com (Jonathan Dieter) Date: Thu, 04 Jan 2007 17:15:11 +0200 Subject: musicpd In-Reply-To: <1167880221.3457.1.camel@localhost> References: <200701032240.24068.jaroslav@aster.pl> <200701032333.33944.jaroslav@aster.pl> <1167865796.3135.7.camel@dawkins> <1167880221.3457.1.camel@localhost> Message-ID: <1167923711.4772.20.camel@jndwidescreen.lesbg.loc> On Wed, 2007-01-03 at 19:10 -0800, Peter Gordon wrote: > Exactly the case, as I understand it. It needs libmad (MP3-decoding > library) an includes an internal copy of it in the main source tarball. I've just had a look at the source (from subversion 4952 from ~ October 29, 2006) and there doesn't seem to be any internal copy of libmad in it. It does link to it, though it should be easy to pass the "--disable-mp3" flag at compile time. It seems there are really three choices here, and it's probably up to the maintainer which he wants to do: 1. Move mpd to extras, disabling the mp3 input plugin and have mpd-nonfree in the 'other' repository which provides the mp3 input plugin (a la audacity and audacity-nonfree) 2. Move mpd to extras and don't provide mp3 input plugin at all 3. Leave mpd in livna with mp3 input plugin What does the maintainer have to say? He doesn't seem to have responded at all to this thread, which means we'll probably be left with (3). Jonathan -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: signature.asc Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 189 bytes Desc: This is a digitally signed message part URL: From ajackson at redhat.com Thu Jan 4 15:17:44 2007 From: ajackson at redhat.com (Adam Jackson) Date: Thu, 04 Jan 2007 10:17:44 -0500 Subject: DPI in intel modesetting driver In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <1167923865.7683.487.camel@localhost.localdomain> On Tue, 2007-01-02 at 22:33 +0000, Leo wrote: > Hi all, > > [A thread started by me in xorg mailing list on setting a 96x96 DPI: > http://permalink.gmane.org/gmane.comp.freedesktop.xorg/14115] > > So far I haven't got any decent solution. Passing an argument to X or > adding a 'Monitor' section in xorg.conf seems backwards. Thus I think > it deserves to be fixed by autodetecting i.e. DPI should come out > correctly by system-config-display. > > Could anyone run `xdpyinfo|grep resolution' to see if your DPI is set > correctly? Since gnome will adjust it to 96x96, you won't see any > difference no matter what value you get. But in other WMs, you will > see the difference for example, the font size could appear to be too > large or too small. You are conflating two different things. The "DPI" setting used by Gnome for font sizing is a lie. It has no actual relation to dots per inch of monitor. The naming is unfortunate, but every time I ask Gnome people about it, the answer is "oh but people expect it to be called DPI", which is crap, but oh well. It is, in effect, a scale factor passed to Freetype when rendering. Divide it by 96 and you get the scale percentage. Don't ask why 96 was chosen when the vast majority of LCDs extant are 100 or 75 but nothing in between, no one knows. If other WMs aren't respecting this setting, and they're using client-side fonts with Freetype, then that's probably their bug, but we'd have to check to be sure. The DPI setting reported by X is the physical dots per inch of the monitor. You never want to override this, because it determines how big Freetype thinks pixels really are, and therefore affects coloration when doing subpixel antialiasing. X should be getting it correct. X's DPI number also happens to get used when rendering core fonts, as a conversion factor between point size and pixels. If you still have any apps that use core fonts, well, you have already lost, and changing X's DPI setting to make them look "better" will just make your non-core fonts look worse. - ajax From arjan at fenrus.demon.nl Thu Jan 4 15:43:28 2007 From: arjan at fenrus.demon.nl (Arjan van de Ven) Date: Thu, 04 Jan 2007 07:43:28 -0800 Subject: musicpd In-Reply-To: <1167923711.4772.20.camel@jndwidescreen.lesbg.loc> References: <200701032240.24068.jaroslav@aster.pl> <200701032333.33944.jaroslav@aster.pl> <1167865796.3135.7.camel@dawkins> <1167880221.3457.1.camel@localhost> <1167923711.4772.20.camel@jndwidescreen.lesbg.loc> Message-ID: <1167925408.3096.28.camel@laptopd505.fenrus.org> On Thu, 2007-01-04 at 17:15 +0200, Jonathan Dieter wrote: > On Wed, 2007-01-03 at 19:10 -0800, Peter Gordon wrote: > > Exactly the case, as I understand it. It needs libmad (MP3-decoding > > library) an includes an internal copy of it in the main source tarball. > > I've just had a look at the source (from subversion 4952 from ~ October > 29, 2006) and there doesn't seem to be any internal copy of libmad in > it. It does link to it, though it should be easy to pass the > "--disable-mp3" flag at compile time. > > It seems there are really three choices here, and it's probably up to > the maintainer which he wants to do: > 1. Move mpd to extras, disabling the mp3 input plugin and have > mpd-nonfree in the 'other' repository which provides the mp3 input > plugin (a la audacity and audacity-nonfree) > 2. Move mpd to extras and don't provide mp3 input plugin at all > 3. Leave mpd in livna with mp3 input plugin 4. Patch mpd so that it doesn't use a full mp3 decoder just to get to ID tags.. From jdieter at gmail.com Thu Jan 4 16:11:59 2007 From: jdieter at gmail.com (Jonathan Dieter) Date: Thu, 04 Jan 2007 18:11:59 +0200 Subject: musicpd In-Reply-To: <1167925408.3096.28.camel@laptopd505.fenrus.org> References: <200701032240.24068.jaroslav@aster.pl> <200701032333.33944.jaroslav@aster.pl> <1167865796.3135.7.camel@dawkins> <1167880221.3457.1.camel@localhost> <1167923711.4772.20.camel@jndwidescreen.lesbg.loc> <1167925408.3096.28.camel@laptopd505.fenrus.org> Message-ID: <1167927119.4772.31.camel@jndwidescreen.lesbg.loc> On Thu, 2007-01-04 at 07:43 -0800, Arjan van de Ven wrote: > On Thu, 2007-01-04 at 17:15 +0200, Jonathan Dieter wrote: > > I've just had a look at the source (from subversion 4952 from ~ October > > 29, 2006) and there doesn't seem to be any internal copy of libmad in > > it. It does link to it, though it should be easy to pass the > > "--disable-mp3" flag at compile time. > > > > It seems there are really three choices here, and it's probably up to > > the maintainer which he wants to do: > > 1. Move mpd to extras, disabling the mp3 input plugin and have > > mpd-nonfree in the 'other' repository which provides the mp3 input > > plugin (a la audacity and audacity-nonfree) > > 2. Move mpd to extras and don't provide mp3 input plugin at all > > 3. Leave mpd in livna with mp3 input plugin > > 4. Patch mpd so that it doesn't use a full mp3 decoder just to get to ID > tags.. > From what I can see, it doesn't. It seems to use libid3tag (available in extras) for the ID3 tags and libmad for the actual decoding of mp3s. In the configure script, --disable-mp3 is separate from --disable-id3. As far as I can see, mpd is in livna because it plays mp3s, not because it reads id3 tags. But I could be wrong, in which case I'd appreciate being corrected. Jonathan -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: signature.asc Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 189 bytes Desc: This is a digitally signed message part URL: From nicolas.mailhot at laposte.net Thu Jan 4 16:25:31 2007 From: nicolas.mailhot at laposte.net (Nicolas Mailhot) Date: Thu, 4 Jan 2007 17:25:31 +0100 (CET) Subject: DPI in intel modesetting driver In-Reply-To: <1167923865.7683.487.camel@localhost.localdomain> References: <1167923865.7683.487.camel@localhost.localdomain> Message-ID: <27822.192.54.193.51.1167927931.squirrel@rousalka.dyndns.org> Le Jeu 4 janvier 2007 16:17, Adam Jackson a ?crit : > You are conflating two different things. > > The "DPI" setting used by Gnome for font sizing is a lie. It has no > actual relation to dots per inch of monitor. The naming is unfortunate, > but every time I ask Gnome people about it, the answer is "oh but people > expect it to be called DPI", which is crap, but oh well. > > It is, in effect, a scale factor passed to Freetype when rendering. That would be great if it was true ; unfortunately that's not a scaling factor but an absolute value, so you get widely different effects depending on the physical pixel density of the screen. This is made clear by the following facts : - no GNOME setup app allows setting Xorg displaysize when it's detected wrong, GNOME dpi is used as an override. If they were actually separate in GNOME people mind they would need separate setting - OLPC has to dynamically adjust GNOME dpi when screen mode switches (but the scaling preferences of the user didn't change!) - as you noted most screens currently on the market actually have a physical dpi value close to the GNOME default *when used at the ideal resolution* - GNOME forces 96 independently of the actual screen resolution, which sort of hides the problem if the user is lucky enough to have a ~96dpi screen. - users spend their time tweaking GNOME dpi when changing hardware, even though their font scaling preferences didn't change. This is a disaster for nfs homes. The "scaling factor" is the excuse GNOME people have found to avoid fixing this. "it's not a real value" => "we don't have to compute it correctly" (its root is in the W3C virtual pixel=angle of view idea. But if you want to pretend you're using virtual pixels, you have to use them both for text and images. We all know GNOME uses actual hardware pixels not angles of view for image sizing) All the feedback I got on the subject before GNOME switched to denial mode was that the "dpi" setting was initially developped as a bandaid because : - xorg displaysize detection is not flawless (esp. then), and was resulting in problems for anaconda, firstboot and gdm (before xorg setup apps are run) - fixing it at the xorg level requires writing xorg.conf as root, writing a gconf key as normal user was easier - when running at suboptimal resolution effective physical dpi is too low to allow correct text rendering - font hinting is optimized for 96dpi, so if you have a close-to-96 hardware dpi pretending to be 96 helps a little Someone then noted setting the wrong dpi value in this gconf key had a scaling side-effect and the bandaid was promoted to inspired feature. Despite the fact it falls appart as soon as the user has a screen with > 100dpi physical density (OLPC...), commutes between screens with different densities (nfs homes, OLPC), uses a mix of GNOME (that use this setting) and non-GNOME (that use xorg dpi) apps, etc Renaming the GNOME key won't fix anything -- Nicolas Mailhot From howard at cohtech.com Thu Jan 4 16:31:04 2007 From: howard at cohtech.com (Howard Wilkinson) Date: Thu, 04 Jan 2007 16:31:04 +0000 Subject: whatever happened to the Alt+F2 installer shell? In-Reply-To: References: <1167909304.18707.55.camel@shinybook.infradead.org> Message-ID: <459D2BC8.2060709@cohtech.com> What switch are you talking to. We have to set our switches to forced 100 Mbps, Duplex and port fast enabled for the link to come up fast enough for the code not to time out on e100 drivers. Thomas M Steenholdt wrote: > David Woodhouse wrote: >> On Thu, 2007-01-04 at 11:25 +0100, Thomas M Steenholdt wrote: >>> I'm having some problems installing using current rawhide boot.iso >>> under VMware. It *seems like* there could be a regression in the >>> pcnet32 driver or something, because it looks like the NIC is found >>> but the network is down. >> >> It's not the network driver -- it's dhcp. Set the address manually and >> it should work OK. >> > > The problem is exactly the same on a physical box (e100 NIC). > > BZ'ed as #221392 > > /Thomas > -- Howard Wilkinson Phone: +44(20)76907075 Coherent Technology Limited Fax: 23 Northampton Square, Mobile: +44(7980)639379 United Kingdom, EC1V 0HL Email: howard at cohtech.com -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From ajackson at redhat.com Thu Jan 4 17:05:16 2007 From: ajackson at redhat.com (Adam Jackson) Date: Thu, 04 Jan 2007 12:05:16 -0500 Subject: DPI in intel modesetting driver In-Reply-To: <27822.192.54.193.51.1167927931.squirrel@rousalka.dyndns.org> References: <1167923865.7683.487.camel@localhost.localdomain> <27822.192.54.193.51.1167927931.squirrel@rousalka.dyndns.org> Message-ID: <1167930316.7683.513.camel@localhost.localdomain> On Thu, 2007-01-04 at 17:25 +0100, Nicolas Mailhot wrote: > - OLPC has to dynamically adjust GNOME dpi when screen mode switches (but > the scaling preferences of the user didn't change!) This doesn't actually happen in current OLPC builds. Whacking the grayscale button doesn't change font sizes. Nor, really, does it need to. There is a minimum legible font size; and if it's legible in color mode, it'll be legible in gray mode too. The noise about different effective resolutions is true as far as it goes, but it doesn't impact the user experience in any meaningful way. Your UI just needs to occupy more pixels, period. My experience with the OLPC screen is that the minimum legible text size in color mode is very close to the minimum legible text size in gray mode. You may as well make them the same, and forget about runtime adjustment, especially since the latency to reflow the whole screen is just prohibitive. > The "scaling factor" is the excuse GNOME people have found to avoid fixing > this. "it's not a real value" => "we don't have to compute it correctly" But considering it a scaling factor is _correct_. If it means other things besides scale factor, then that needs deconflation within Gnome itself. I'm aware that probably requires fixing Gnome, but there's certainly no fixing this within core X. Mangling DisplaySize in the config file is not a fix. That has a well-defined meaning, unlike Gnome DPI. (New RANDR may allow you to modify the server's perception of display size at runtime, for the case where you've got a monitor that can stretch or not but there's no way of determining which from software. So the need for root privs does go away, but the server still needs to report _physically_ how big pixels are, so it's not a mechanism for font scaling.) - ajax From davej at redhat.com Thu Jan 4 17:22:01 2007 From: davej at redhat.com (Dave Jones) Date: Thu, 4 Jan 2007 12:22:01 -0500 Subject: To NX or not to NX In-Reply-To: References: <1167812088.3567.9.camel@sonlaptop> <20070103173644.GA3862@kerouac> <20070103190743.6bd0fef8@lain.camperquake.de> <20070103191657.GB3862@kerouac> <20070103225824.GA11354@redhat.com> Message-ID: <20070104172201.GA3129@redhat.com> On Thu, Jan 04, 2007 at 09:26:57AM +0200, Panu Matilainen wrote: > > There's a 2.6.19 based update in the works, should be out next week. > > Will that update include a fix for the mmap file corruption bug? Pretty > please? :) Of course. Dave -- http://www.codemonkey.org.uk From davej at redhat.com Thu Jan 4 17:23:02 2007 From: davej at redhat.com (Dave Jones) Date: Thu, 4 Jan 2007 12:23:02 -0500 Subject: To NX or not to NX In-Reply-To: <20070104090244.115940@gmx.net> References: <1167812088.3567.9.camel@sonlaptop> <20070103173644.GA3862@kerouac> <20070103190743.6bd0fef8@lain.camperquake.de> <20070103191657.GB3862@kerouac> <20070103225824.GA11354@redhat.com> <20070104090244.115940@gmx.net> Message-ID: <20070104172302.GB3129@redhat.com> On Thu, Jan 04, 2007 at 10:02:44AM +0100, Joachim Frieben wrote: > -------- Original-Message -------- > Date: Wed, 3 Jan 2007 17:58:24 -0500 > From: Dave Jones > To: fedora-devel-list at redhat.com > Subject: Re: To NX or not to NX > > > > There's a 2.6.19 based update in the works, should be out next week. > > > > Dave > > For those interested, you can already grab a preview at: > > http://people.redhat.com/davej/kernels/Fedora/FC6/1.2887.fc6 > > "2.6.19-1.2887.fc6" did not settle my issues .. but maybe yours (?) note that this build doesn't have the fix for the mmap corruption problem which got quite a bit of attention last week. I'll get a fixed build up there soon, but in the meantime, tread carefully with this one. Dave -- http://www.codemonkey.org.uk From nicolas.mailhot at laposte.net Thu Jan 4 17:58:10 2007 From: nicolas.mailhot at laposte.net (Nicolas Mailhot) Date: Thu, 04 Jan 2007 18:58:10 +0100 Subject: DPI in intel modesetting driver In-Reply-To: <1167930316.7683.513.camel@localhost.localdomain> References: <1167923865.7683.487.camel@localhost.localdomain> <27822.192.54.193.51.1167927931.squirrel@rousalka.dyndns.org> <1167930316.7683.513.camel@localhost.localdomain> Message-ID: <1167933490.16958.48.camel@rousalka.dyndns.org> Le jeudi 04 janvier 2007 ? 12:05 -0500, Adam Jackson a ?crit : > On Thu, 2007-01-04 at 17:25 +0100, Nicolas Mailhot wrote: > > > - OLPC has to dynamically adjust GNOME dpi when screen mode switches (but > > the scaling preferences of the user didn't change!) > > This doesn't actually happen in current OLPC builds. Whacking the > grayscale button doesn't change font sizes. I doesn't because IIRC in the background a process receives a dbus event and changes the value of the gconf dpi key to compensate for pixel density change. Because since this key aggregates hardware factor and user scaling preferences it is not resilient to hardware changes. > > The "scaling factor" is the excuse GNOME people have found to avoid fixing > > this. "it's not a real value" => "we don't have to compute it correctly" > > But considering it a scaling factor is _correct_. Current GNOME dpi is hardware density ? scaling factor. The two terms need separation to be hardware-changes-agnostic > If it means other > things besides scale factor, then that needs deconflation within Gnome > itself. > > I'm aware that probably requires fixing Gnome, but there's certainly no > fixing this within core X. The problem is certainly not xorg-size but 100% GNOME-size > Mangling DisplaySize in the config file is not a fix. I'm not advocating putting a false DisplaySize value in the config file (that would only continue the current mess). I'm advocating having the GNOME xorg setup app let users put the real DisplaySize there if xorg misdetected it, and replace "GNOME DPI" with an actual scaling factor (in %) applied over the dynamically computed xorg dpi. (Two terms for two different things). With maybe a floor value to avoid feeding freetype scaling we know won't permit correct font rendering. Not the current mess where one false value (wrong xorg computation) is replaced by another false value (random user-provided "dpi") Regards, -- Nicolas Mailhot -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: signature.asc Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 197 bytes Desc: Ceci est une partie de message num?riquement sign?e URL: From ajackson at redhat.com Thu Jan 4 18:05:59 2007 From: ajackson at redhat.com (Adam Jackson) Date: Thu, 04 Jan 2007 13:05:59 -0500 Subject: DPI in intel modesetting driver In-Reply-To: <1167933490.16958.48.camel@rousalka.dyndns.org> References: <1167923865.7683.487.camel@localhost.localdomain> <27822.192.54.193.51.1167927931.squirrel@rousalka.dyndns.org> <1167930316.7683.513.camel@localhost.localdomain> <1167933490.16958.48.camel@rousalka.dyndns.org> Message-ID: <1167933959.7683.519.camel@localhost.localdomain> On Thu, 2007-01-04 at 18:58 +0100, Nicolas Mailhot wrote: > Le jeudi 04 janvier 2007 ? 12:05 -0500, Adam Jackson a ?crit : > > On Thu, 2007-01-04 at 17:25 +0100, Nicolas Mailhot wrote: > > > > > - OLPC has to dynamically adjust GNOME dpi when screen mode switches (but > > > the scaling preferences of the user didn't change!) > > > > This doesn't actually happen in current OLPC builds. Whacking the > > grayscale button doesn't change font sizes. > > I doesn't because IIRC in the background a process receives a dbus event > and changes the value of the gconf dpi key to compensate for pixel > density change. Because since this key aggregates hardware factor and > user scaling preferences it is not resilient to hardware changes. There's no gconf on OLPC. Literally all that happens when you push the grayscale button is that the DCON flips to gray mode. GTK does not do anything in response. > I'm not advocating putting a false DisplaySize value in the config file > (that would only continue the current mess). I'm advocating having the > GNOME xorg setup app let users put the real DisplaySize there if xorg > misdetected it, and replace "GNOME DPI" with an actual scaling factor > (in %) applied over the dynamically computed xorg dpi. (Two terms for > two different things). With maybe a floor value to avoid feeding > freetype scaling we know won't permit correct font rendering. I think we're in violent agreement here. - ajax From tonynelson at georgeanelson.com Thu Jan 4 18:17:33 2007 From: tonynelson at georgeanelson.com (Tony Nelson) Date: Thu, 4 Jan 2007 13:17:33 -0500 Subject: FC6 on a HP DC7700 In-Reply-To: References: <1164306923.3147.1.camel@laptopd505.fenrus.org> Message-ID: At 10:01 AM +0100 1/4/07, Gianluca Sforna wrote: >On 1/3/07, Tony Nelson wrote: >> At 12:31 AM +0000 1/3/07, T Swan wrote: >> >Gianluca Sforna gmail.com> writes: >> > >> >> >> >> On 11/26/06, Gianluca Sforna gmail.com> wrote: >> >> > >> >> >> >> with acpi=off I can reach anaconda, but the slowness is there despite >> >> I'm not using anymore PS/2 peripherals >> >> >> >> I hope this is somewhat useful... >> >> >> > >> >After a BIOS flash, my dc7700 will run w/ or w/o acpi enabled, but it >> >feels like it is running at 300MHz or less. >> > >> >Starting udev takes almost 5 minutes. >> >> Review the BIOS settings? Mine can get into a "safe mode" if it thinks >> booting failed, and that includes lowering the CPU clock speed as well as >> making the memory slower. > >Are you saying you are running a Core 6 on a DC7700 without problems? No, "Mine" refers to the BIOS on my computer. -- ____________________________________________________________________ TonyN.:' ' From g at socallinuxexpo.org Thu Jan 4 19:17:05 2007 From: g at socallinuxexpo.org (Gareth J. Greenaway) Date: Thu, 4 Jan 2007 11:17:05 -0800 Subject: SCALE To Host Women in Open Source Mini Conference Message-ID: <200701041117.05569.g@socallinuxexpo.org> FOR IMMEDIATE RELEASE Los Angeles, CA January 2, 2007 The Southern California Linux Expo announces plans to a 'Women In Open Source' Mini-conference. The goals of the conference are to encourage women to use technology and open source and free software, and to explore the obstacles that women face in breaking into the technology industry. The audience will be those women who may have an interest in technology, but hesitate to get into it because they believe it's a male-only club. The conference will be held in conjunction with the Fifth Annual So Cal Linux Expo, at the Westin LAX Hotel. The 'Women in Open Source' mini-conference will be held February 9th. If you are interested in speaking, there are still speaker slots available. Contact Gareth Greenaway (gareth at socallinuxexpo.com) with your talk proposal. About the Southern California Linux Expo: The Southern California Linux Expo is the premier grass roots Linux and Open Source Software conference in the United States. SCALE 5x, their fifth annual event, will be held on February 10th and 11th, 2007 at the Los Angeles Airport Westin hotel. SCALE will include seminars by leaders from the open source community, tutorials for beginners, and an exhibit hall with both vendor booths and non-commercial booths. Linux Expo of Southern California, Inc. is a non-profit organization whose members are currently comprised of, but not limited to, members of the SCLUG, USCLUG, and UCLALUGs. For more information see http://www.socallinuxexpo.org Call For Papers Submissions: gareth at socallinuxexpo.org Media Inquiries: Orv Beach info at socallinuxexpo.org 1.877.831.2569 ext 120 Attendance Information: Gareth J. Greenaway gareth at socallinuxexpo.org 1.877.831.2569 ext 130 -- Gareth J. Greenaway | g at socallinuxexpo.org Voice - 877-831-2569 x130 Southern California Linux Expo http://www.socallinuxexpo.org From sdl.web at gmail.com Thu Jan 4 19:51:00 2007 From: sdl.web at gmail.com (Leo) Date: Thu, 04 Jan 2007 19:51:00 +0000 Subject: DPI in intel modesetting driver References: <1167923865.7683.487.camel@localhost.localdomain> Message-ID: * Adam Jackson (2007-01-04 10:17 -0500) said: ^^^^^^^^^^^^ > The DPI setting reported by X is the physical dots per inch of the > monitor. You never want to override this, because it determines how > big Freetype thinks pixels really are, and therefore affects > coloration when doing subpixel antialiasing. X should be getting it > correct. But X detects the physical DPI wrong. My screen is LCD on a laptop DEll 700M with 1280x800 pixels (262x164 millimeters). If I set "DisplaySize 261 163" in xorg.conf. The dpi is 124x124. > X's DPI number also happens to get used when rendering core fonts, > as a conversion factor between point size and pixels. If you still > have any apps that use core fonts, well, you have already lost, and > changing X's DPI setting to make them look "better" will just make > your non-core fonts look worse. -- Leo (GPG Key: 9283AA3F) From notting at redhat.com Thu Jan 4 19:50:32 2007 From: notting at redhat.com (Bill Nottingham) Date: Thu, 4 Jan 2007 14:50:32 -0500 Subject: Fedora 7 Message-ID: <20070104195032.GE4693@nostromo.devel.redhat.com> It's time to bite the bullet. There will be no more releases of Fedora Core or Fedora Extras. Wait! Where are you going? Come back! I'm serious. We've talked all along about how there should be no differences in how packages are treated whether they are in Core, or they are in Extras; no differences depending on who maintains the package. The best solution to this? Eliminate the distinction between Core and Extras entirely. Starting with Fedora 7, there is no more Core, and no more Extras; there is only Fedora. One single repository, built in the community on open source tools, assembled into whatever spins the Fedora community desires. Are we there yet right now? No. There's a lot of work to be done, and we're looking for help. What's left of the Core Steering Committee is going to work with the Fedora Board and FESCO to figure out just how this new combined repository is going to be governed and managed. In the meantime, just because we're not going to have a release of Core or Extras doesn't mean we're not going to have a release. Hence, Fedora 7. Name TBD, but probably not 'Bride of Zod'. http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Releases/7 The current schedule is: 23 January 2007 | F7 Test1 development freeze 30 January 2007 | F7 Test1 Release 20 February 2007 | F7 FEATURE Freeze | F7 string freeze | F7 Test2 development freeze 27 February 2007 | F7 Test2 release 19 March 2007 | F7 translation freeze | F7 Test3 development freeze 26 March 2007 | F7 Test3 release ... Continual freeze. Only critical bugs fixed ... 5 April 2007 | Final devel freeze. 26 April 2007 | F7 General Availability And, what would a release be without features. We've identified 28 features that we'd like to include in the release, available at http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Releases/7/Features: - Modify the build system to support this new paradigm - Merge Core and Extras in source control - Use the new pungi tool to spin all releases - A Fedora Desktop spin - A Fedora Server spin - A Fedora KDE spin - Make LiveCDs as a part of the distribution release process - Ability to customize non-packaging distrubution parameters - Switch to libata drivers for PATA support - Speedup of bootup and shutdown - Make wireless rock-solid - Add wireless firmware for all the chipsets we can - CodecBuddy - Fixing the proliferation of dictionary packages - Support encrypted filesystems - Fast user switching in the desktop - Fix the firewire stack - Switch to a tickless kernel by default - Fix unnecessary wakeups across the distribution - Add KVM virtualization support to our tools - Investigate (but probably don't switch to) new init technologies - Add the nouveau drivers for nVidia cards - Speed up Yum and RPM - Add support for RandR 1.2 - Switch to syslog-ng - Make the update system useable by all More information on each of these features is available on the wiki, including responsible people and plans. If you'd like to chip in on these features, please, do! If you've got new features you'd like to add, and you are willing to do the work, or have the ability to get others to do the work for you, we can add them too. Note that Test2 is the feature freeze. Here's to making Fedora 7 the best release yet! Bill From tbrinkman at sbcglobal.net Thu Jan 4 19:52:21 2007 From: tbrinkman at sbcglobal.net (Tom Brinkman) Date: Thu, 4 Jan 2007 13:52:21 -0600 Subject: To NX or not to NX In-Reply-To: <20070104172302.GB3129@redhat.com> References: <1167812088.3567.9.camel@sonlaptop> <20070104090244.115940@gmx.net> <20070104172302.GB3129@redhat.com> Message-ID: <200701041352.21274.tbrinkman@sbcglobal.net> On Thursday 04 January 2007 11:23 am, Dave Jones wrote: > On Thu, Jan 04, 2007 at 10:02:44AM +0100, Joachim Frieben wrote: > > -------- Original-Message -------- > > Date: Wed, 3 Jan 2007 17:58:24 -0500 > > From: Dave Jones > > To: fedora-devel-list at redhat.com > > Subject: Re: To NX or not to NX > > > > > There's a 2.6.19 based update in the works, should be out > > > next week. > > > > > > Dave > > > > For those interested, you can already grab a preview at: > > > > > > http://people.redhat.com/davej/kernels/Fedora/FC6/1.2887.fc6 > > > > "2.6.19-1.2887.fc6" did not settle my issues .. but maybe > > yours (?) > > note that this build doesn't have the fix for the mmap corruption > problem which got quite a bit of attention last week. I'll get a > fixed build up there soon, but in the meantime, tread carefully > with this one. > > Dave FWIW, I've been using 2.6.19-1.2887.fc6 (i686) on FC6-test for a few hours. No issues... tho I was surprised my hd*'s are still hd* rather than sd* as they are on rawhide. rawhide; $ df Filesystem Size Used Avail Use% Mounted on /dev/sdb1 9.9G 4.5G 5.0G 48% / /dev/sda1 92M 56M 32M 65% /boot tmpfs 502M 0 502M 0% /dev/shm /dev/sdb2 27G 5.7G 20G 23% /home /dev/sda8 41G 25G 14G 65% /stor2 /dev/sdc1 151G 119G 25G 84% /stor4 fc6-test; ~ $ uname -r 2.6.19-1.2887.fc6 ~ $ df Filesystem Size Used Avail Use% Mounted on /dev/hda6 9.7G 4.7G 4.5G 52% / /dev/hda1 92M 45M 42M 52% /boot tmpfs 506M 0 506M 0% /dev/shm /dev/hda7 24G 4.5G 18G 20% /home /dev/hda8 41G 26G 14G 66% /stor2 /dev/sda1 151G 124G 20G 87% /stor4 -- Tom Brinkman Corpus Christi, Texas From ajackson at redhat.com Thu Jan 4 20:00:13 2007 From: ajackson at redhat.com (Adam Jackson) Date: Thu, 04 Jan 2007 15:00:13 -0500 Subject: DPI in intel modesetting driver In-Reply-To: References: <1167923865.7683.487.camel@localhost.localdomain> Message-ID: <1167940813.7683.521.camel@localhost.localdomain> On Thu, 2007-01-04 at 19:51 +0000, Leo wrote: > * Adam Jackson (2007-01-04 10:17 -0500) said: > ^^^^^^^^^^^^ > > The DPI setting reported by X is the physical dots per inch of the > > monitor. You never want to override this, because it determines how > > big Freetype thinks pixels really are, and therefore affects > > coloration when doing subpixel antialiasing. X should be getting it > > correct. > > But X detects the physical DPI wrong. My screen is LCD on a laptop > DEll 700M with 1280x800 pixels (262x164 millimeters). > > If I set "DisplaySize 261 163" in xorg.conf. The dpi is 124x124. Does your X log show an EDID block being printed? - ajax From buildsys at redhat.com Thu Jan 4 20:08:27 2007 From: buildsys at redhat.com (buildsys at redhat.com) Date: Thu, 4 Jan 2007 15:08:27 -0500 Subject: rawhide report: 20070104 changes Message-ID: <200701042008.l04K8Ron030833@hs20-bc2-6.build.redhat.com> Updated Packages: Pyrex-0:0.9.4-4.fc7 ------------------- * Wed Jan 03 2007 David Zeuthen - 0:0.9.4-4.fc7 - include a patch so Pyrex works with python 2.5 dbus-python-0.70-9.fc7 ---------------------- * Wed Jan 03 2007 David Zeuthen - 0.70-9.fc7 - rebuild against new Pyrex dogtail-0.6.1-1.fc7 ------------------- * Wed Jan 03 2007 Zack Cerza - 0.6.1-1 - New upstream release. evolution-sharp-0.12.1-1.fc7 ---------------------------- * Wed Jan 03 2007 Matthew Barnes - 0.12.1-1.fc7 - Update to 0.12.1 - Remove evolution-sharp-0.11.1-evo210.patch (fixed upstream). - Mono files now live in /usr/lib rather than /usr/lib. fonts-indic-2.0.12-1.fc7 ------------------------ * Thu Jan 04 2007 Parag Nemade - 2.0.12-1 - Resolves: RH#220881 for [ta_IN], RH#220882 for [hi_IN] (Parag Nemade) * Thu Jan 04 2007 Parag Nemade - 2.0.11-1 - Resolves: RH#216639 and RH#217482 for [kn_IN] (Parag Nemade) - Resolves: RH#219583 for [pa_IN] (Parag Nemade) - Resolves: RH#218588 for [gu_IN] (Parag Nemade) * Wed Dec 06 2006 Parag Nemade - 2.0.10-1 - Resolved Bugs from Parag Nemade - Resolves: bug 207269 for [ta_IN],bug 217482 for [kn_IN],bug 216628 for [ml_IN],bug 218588 for [gu_IN],bug 206599 for [te_IN] - Resolved Bugs from LingNing Zhang - Resolves: Bug 218586,bug 218587 for [ml_IN] gcc-4.1.1-50 ------------ * Wed Jan 03 2007 Jakub Jelinek 4.1.1-50 - backwards compatibility with old layout of struct _Unwind_Context (#220627) - fix preprocessor defines in assembly preprocessed with -std=... (Steven Bosscher, PR c/25993) - fix PCH creation with templates (Jason Merrill, PR c++/28217) - fix dwarf2out ICE (Alexandre Oliva, #217529, PR debug/30189) pam-0.99.6.2-7.fc7 ------------------ * Fri Dec 01 2006 Dan Walsh 0.99.6.2-7 - Fix selection of role * Fri Dec 01 2006 Dan Walsh 0.99.6.2-6 - Fix pam_namespace to only change MLS componant Resolves: Bug #216184 * Thu Nov 30 2006 Tomas Mraz 0.99.6.2-5 - add select-context option to pam_selinux (#213812) - autoreconf won't work with autoconf-2.61 as configure.in is not yet adjusted for it python-2.5-7.fc7 ---------------- * Wed Jan 03 2007 Jeremy Katz - 2.5.3-7 - fix ctypes to not require execstack (#220669) Broken deps for s390 ---------------------------------------------------------- systemtap - 0.5.10-1.fc7.s390 requires kernel >= 0:2.6.9-11 systemtap-runtime - 0.5.10-1.fc7.s390 requires kernel >= 0:2.6.9-11 From zaitcev at redhat.com Thu Jan 4 20:16:28 2007 From: zaitcev at redhat.com (Pete Zaitcev) Date: Thu, 4 Jan 2007 12:16:28 -0800 Subject: usb-storage reload Message-ID: <20070104121628.82d5b004.zaitcev@redhat.com> Gentlemen: IBM Bladecenter is killing me slowly for 4th year in a row. But now it seems a good time to ask, why don't we stop reloading usb-storage? Since the mount-by-label is essentially mandatory with the migration to SATA, I do not see how having sda pointing to a floppy can harm anything anymore. I'm adding Doug to cc: in case he knows a case where LVM2 encodes device minors into an on-disk format. Yours, -- Pete From sdl.web at gmail.com Thu Jan 4 20:38:01 2007 From: sdl.web at gmail.com (Leo) Date: Thu, 04 Jan 2007 20:38:01 +0000 Subject: DPI in intel modesetting driver References: <1167923865.7683.487.camel@localhost.localdomain> <1167940813.7683.521.camel@localhost.localdomain> Message-ID: * Adam Jackson (2007-01-04 15:00 -0500) said: ^^^^^^^^^^^^ >> But X detects the physical DPI wrong. My screen is LCD on a laptop >> DEll 700M with 1280x800 pixels (262x164 millimeters). >> >> If I set "DisplaySize 261 163" in xorg.conf. The dpi is 124x124. > > Does your X log show an EDID block being printed? Seems NO. (I have Xorg.0.log attached). How can I fix this? -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: Xorg.0.log.bz2 Type: application/x-bzip2 Size: 8314 bytes Desc: Xorg.0.log.bz2 URL: -------------- next part -------------- -- Leo (GPG Key: 9283AA3F) From bruno at wolff.to Thu Jan 4 20:43:38 2007 From: bruno at wolff.to (Bruno Wolff III) Date: Thu, 4 Jan 2007 14:43:38 -0600 Subject: To NX or not to NX In-Reply-To: <200701041352.21274.tbrinkman@sbcglobal.net> References: <1167812088.3567.9.camel@sonlaptop> <20070104090244.115940@gmx.net> <20070104172302.GB3129@redhat.com> <200701041352.21274.tbrinkman@sbcglobal.net> Message-ID: <20070104204338.GA27473@wolff.to> On Thu, Jan 04, 2007 at 13:52:21 -0600, Tom Brinkman wrote: > > FWIW, I've been using 2.6.19-1.2887.fc6 (i686) on FC6-test for a > few hours. No issues... tho I was surprised my hd*'s are still hd* > rather than sd* as they are on rawhide. Dave has already said that the libata stuff isn't going to appear in FC6 kernels. From fedora-devel-list.listman at linuxnetz.de Thu Jan 4 20:56:45 2007 From: fedora-devel-list.listman at linuxnetz.de (Robert Scheck) Date: Thu, 4 Jan 2007 21:56:45 +0100 Subject: Fedora 7 In-Reply-To: <20070104195032.GE4693@nostromo.devel.redhat.com> References: <20070104195032.GE4693@nostromo.devel.redhat.com> Message-ID: <20070104205645.GA6194@hurricane.linuxnetz.de> Good evening, On Thu, 04 Jan 2007, Bill Nottingham wrote: > There will be no more releases of Fedora Core or Fedora Extras. Sounds nice, even I'm curious whether this can be realized until April. And What will be the release tagging of the new "Fedora 7"? Won't there be no magic .fc7 dist any longer? IMHO .f7 looks odd and causes problem with rpmvercmp. We could take this as reason to rename Fedora again ;-) > Wait! Where are you going? Come back! Nope, why to drive Fedora's highway to hell? Just kidding. For Fedora 7 we absolutely should fix the bugs #132925, #152435, #192854, #220265, #193475, #206697, #212780 as they're longer open but unfortunately silent moved from one Fedora release to another and most of them are tagged EasyFix, too. > - Add wireless firmware for all the chipsets we can It doesn't match really, but can we please also get rid of bug #212890 for Fedora 7, as this problem is related. > - Investigate (but probably don't switch to) new init technologies > - Switch to syslog-ng Aren't these two not the same and don't they conflict each other? Or did I understand something wrong? > - Speed up Yum and RPM Does this mean, we get the new magic RPM until April with the new community as proposed by Max some time ago? Or do we really want ship the old and nearly antiquaric and heavily patched RPM 4.4.2 for another Fedora release? Hopefully not. So far, so good. Anyway you all hopefully slipped very well into 2007. Greetings, Robert From mattdm at mattdm.org Thu Jan 4 21:06:25 2007 From: mattdm at mattdm.org (Matthew Miller) Date: Thu, 4 Jan 2007 16:06:25 -0500 Subject: Fedora 7 In-Reply-To: <20070104195032.GE4693@nostromo.devel.redhat.com> References: <20070104195032.GE4693@nostromo.devel.redhat.com> Message-ID: <20070104210625.GA6079@jadzia.bu.edu> On Thu, Jan 04, 2007 at 02:50:32PM -0500, Bill Nottingham wrote: > 30 January 2007 | F7 Test1 Release Just in time for FUDCon! -- Matthew Miller mattdm at mattdm.org Boston University Linux ------> From vnpenguin at vnoss.org Thu Jan 4 21:08:17 2007 From: vnpenguin at vnoss.org (Vnpenguin) Date: Thu, 4 Jan 2007 22:08:17 +0100 Subject: Fedora 7 In-Reply-To: <20070104195032.GE4693@nostromo.devel.redhat.com> References: <20070104195032.GE4693@nostromo.devel.redhat.com> Message-ID: On 1/4/07, Bill Nottingham wrote: > It's time to bite the bullet. > > There will be no more releases of Fedora Core or Fedora Extras. > > Wait! Where are you going? Come back! ... > > And, what would a release be without features. We've identified > 28 features that we'd like to include in the release, available > at http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Releases/7/Features: > > - Modify the build system to support this new paradigm > - Merge Core and Extras in source control > - Use the new pungi tool to spin all releases > - A Fedora Desktop spin > - A Fedora Server spin > - A Fedora KDE spin So "Fedora Desktop" means "Fedora Gnome desktop" ? > - Make LiveCDs as a part of the distribution release process Cool ! Is this installable like "Ubuntu livecd" ? > - Add the nouveau drivers for nVidia cards "nouveau" ? :-) > - Speed up Yum and RPM Yeah, nice Thank you, -- http://vnoss.org From david at fubar.dk Thu Jan 4 21:10:26 2007 From: david at fubar.dk (David Zeuthen) Date: Thu, 04 Jan 2007 16:10:26 -0500 Subject: Fedora 7 In-Reply-To: References: <20070104195032.GE4693@nostromo.devel.redhat.com> Message-ID: <1167945026.6344.0.camel@zelda.fubar.dk> On Thu, 2007-01-04 at 22:08 +0100, Vnpenguin wrote: > So "Fedora Desktop" means "Fedora Gnome desktop" ? Correct (we're a GNOME centric distribution). > > - Make LiveCDs as a part of the distribution release process > > Cool ! Is this installable like "Ubuntu livecd" ? That's the plan. David From jwboyer at jdub.homelinux.org Thu Jan 4 21:12:47 2007 From: jwboyer at jdub.homelinux.org (Josh Boyer) Date: Thu, 04 Jan 2007 15:12:47 -0600 Subject: Fedora 7 In-Reply-To: <20070104205645.GA6194@hurricane.linuxnetz.de> References: <20070104195032.GE4693@nostromo.devel.redhat.com> <20070104205645.GA6194@hurricane.linuxnetz.de> Message-ID: <1167945167.3836.72.camel@zod.rchland.ibm.com> On Thu, 2007-01-04 at 21:56 +0100, Robert Scheck wrote: > > > - Investigate (but probably don't switch to) new init technologies > > - Switch to syslog-ng > > Aren't these two not the same and don't they conflict each other? Or did I > understand something wrong? No. Init is init. syslog-ng is syslog. One serves as the init process for the box, the other the logger. josh From jpo at di.uminho.pt Thu Jan 4 21:13:39 2007 From: jpo at di.uminho.pt (Jose Pedro Oliveira) Date: Thu, 04 Jan 2007 21:13:39 +0000 Subject: Fedora 7 (TeTeX) In-Reply-To: <20070104195032.GE4693@nostromo.devel.redhat.com> References: <20070104195032.GE4693@nostromo.devel.redhat.com> Message-ID: <459D6E03.5030702@di.uminho.pt> Bill Nottingham wrote: > And, what would a release be without features. We've identified > 28 features that we'd like to include in the release, available > at http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Releases/7/: Don't forget that TeTeX needs to be replaced (see #215497). jpo -- Jos? Pedro Oliveira * mailto: jpo at di.uminho.pt * http://gsd.di.uminho.pt/jpo * * gpg fingerprint = F9B6 8D87 859D 1C94 48F0 84C0 9749 9EB5 91BD 851B * -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: smime.p7s Type: application/x-pkcs7-signature Size: 4616 bytes Desc: S/MIME Cryptographic Signature URL: From jkeating at redhat.com Thu Jan 4 21:13:50 2007 From: jkeating at redhat.com (Jesse Keating) Date: Thu, 4 Jan 2007 16:13:50 -0500 Subject: Fedora 7 In-Reply-To: References: <20070104195032.GE4693@nostromo.devel.redhat.com> Message-ID: <200701041613.50625.jkeating@redhat.com> On Thursday 04 January 2007 16:08, Vnpenguin wrote: > > - A Fedora Desktop spin > > - A Fedora Server spin > > - A Fedora KDE spin > > So "Fedora Desktop" means "Fedora Gnome desktop" ? Yes, Fedora Desktop and Fedora Server will probably be the official Fedora Project spins of Fedora. Fedora KDE is the proof of concept, perhaps widely used "community contributed" spin of Fedora. That's why (IMHO) its named specifically with "KDE" whereas the official spin is just "Desktop". If you don't know what "KDE" or "GNOME" is, you wouldn't know to choose it. Desktop is a good generic name that is understandable. However if you already know and prefer KDE, you know to get the KDE spin. -- Jesse Keating Release Engineer: Fedora -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 189 bytes Desc: not available URL: From peter at thecodergeek.com Thu Jan 4 21:15:17 2007 From: peter at thecodergeek.com (Peter Gordon) Date: Thu, 4 Jan 2007 13:15:17 -0800 (PST) Subject: Fedora 7 In-Reply-To: <20070104205645.GA6194@hurricane.linuxnetz.de> References: <20070104195032.GE4693@nostromo.devel.redhat.com> <20070104205645.GA6194@hurricane.linuxnetz.de> Message-ID: <53532.65.223.36.19.1167945317.squirrel@thecodergeek.com> Robert Scheck wrote: > Sounds nice, even I'm curious whether this can be realized until April. > And What will be the release tagging of the new "Fedora 7"? Won't there be > no magic .fc7 dist any longer? IMHO .f7 looks odd and causes problem with > rpmvercmp. We could take this as reason to rename Fedora again ;-) The %dist tag could be expanded to something like ".fedora7" instead (which is greater than ".fc6" according to rpmvercmp. >> - Investigate (but probably don't switch to) new init technologies >> - Switch to syslog-ng > > Aren't these two not the same and don't they conflict each other? Or did I > understand something wrong? syslog-ng is (may become) the new system logging daemon, to replace syslogd as-is. The new init technologies referred to are ideas like InitNG or similar that work with or replace the older SysVinit stuff to help increase the boot time and efficiency by doing things such as preloading, asynchronous startups where possible, potential D-Bus integration, etc. They are not the same thing. :] > So far, so good. Anyway you all hopefully slipped very well into 2007. Agreed. Go go go Fedora! WOO! :D -- Peter Gordon (codergeek42) This message was sent through a webmail interface, and thus not signed. From sundaram at fedoraproject.org Thu Jan 4 21:12:59 2007 From: sundaram at fedoraproject.org (Rahul Sundaram) Date: Fri, 05 Jan 2007 02:42:59 +0530 Subject: Fedora 7 (TeTeX) In-Reply-To: <459D6E03.5030702@di.uminho.pt> References: <20070104195032.GE4693@nostromo.devel.redhat.com> <459D6E03.5030702@di.uminho.pt> Message-ID: <459D6DDB.6050102@fedoraproject.org> Jose Pedro Oliveira wrote: > Bill Nottingham wrote: >> And, what would a release be without features. We've identified >> 28 features that we'd like to include in the release, available >> at http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Releases/7/: > > Don't forget that TeTeX needs to be replaced (see #215497). ... and we need to decide on whether we need to use cdrkit or stay with the current version of cdrecord in Fedora. Let me know if a RFE is required. Rahul From vnpenguin at vnoss.org Thu Jan 4 21:18:25 2007 From: vnpenguin at vnoss.org (Vnpenguin) Date: Thu, 4 Jan 2007 22:18:25 +0100 Subject: Fedora 7 In-Reply-To: <200701041613.50625.jkeating@redhat.com> References: <20070104195032.GE4693@nostromo.devel.redhat.com> <200701041613.50625.jkeating@redhat.com> Message-ID: On 1/4/07, Jesse Keating wrote: > On Thursday 04 January 2007 16:08, Vnpenguin wrote: > > > - A Fedora Desktop spin > > > - A Fedora Server spin > > > - A Fedora KDE spin > > > > So "Fedora Desktop" means "Fedora Gnome desktop" ? > > Yes, Fedora Desktop and Fedora Server will probably be the official Fedora > Project spins of Fedora. Fedora KDE is the proof of concept, perhaps widely > used "community contributed" spin of Fedora. That's why (IMHO) its named > specifically with "KDE" whereas the official spin is just "Desktop". If you > don't know what "KDE" or "GNOME" is, you wouldn't know to choose it. Desktop > is a good generic name that is understandable. However if you already know > and prefer KDE, you know to get the KDE spin. > Thank you, I use Gnome (and GTK apps) since RH 5.0 and I don't want to change it :) Cheers, -- http://vnoss.org From sundaram at fedoraproject.org Thu Jan 4 21:15:48 2007 From: sundaram at fedoraproject.org (Rahul Sundaram) Date: Fri, 05 Jan 2007 02:45:48 +0530 Subject: Fedora 7 In-Reply-To: References: <20070104195032.GE4693@nostromo.devel.redhat.com> Message-ID: <459D6E84.50008@fedoraproject.org> Vnpenguin wrote: >> - Add the nouveau drivers for nVidia cards > > "nouveau" ? :-) I am not sure whether that was a serious question or a joke I didnt understand. If its a serious question OP did refer to http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Releases/7/Features which has the details. If it's a joke I would be curious to know what it is. Rahul From sundaram at fedoraproject.org Thu Jan 4 21:22:50 2007 From: sundaram at fedoraproject.org (Rahul Sundaram) Date: Fri, 05 Jan 2007 02:52:50 +0530 Subject: Fedora 7 In-Reply-To: <200701041613.50625.jkeating@redhat.com> References: <20070104195032.GE4693@nostromo.devel.redhat.com> <200701041613.50625.jkeating@redhat.com> Message-ID: <459D702A.8050705@fedoraproject.org> Jesse Keating wrote: > Yes, Fedora Desktop and Fedora Server will probably be the official Fedora > Project spins of Fedora. Fedora KDE is the proof of concept, perhaps widely > used "community contributed" spin of Fedora. That's why (IMHO) its named > specifically with "KDE" whereas the official spin is just "Desktop". If you > don't know what "KDE" or "GNOME" is, you wouldn't know to choose it. Desktop > is a good generic name that is understandable. However if you already know > and prefer KDE, you know to get the KDE spin. It would be consistent to have something like Fedora Desktop (GNOME edition) and Fedora Desktop (KDE edition) It's confusing and discriminatory to call one of the spins as the desktop when you have more (which is likely to increase) than one desktop oriented spins. Rahul From jkeating at redhat.com Thu Jan 4 21:27:33 2007 From: jkeating at redhat.com (Jesse Keating) Date: Thu, 4 Jan 2007 16:27:33 -0500 Subject: Fedora 7 (TeTeX) In-Reply-To: <459D6DDB.6050102@fedoraproject.org> References: <20070104195032.GE4693@nostromo.devel.redhat.com> <459D6E03.5030702@di.uminho.pt> <459D6DDB.6050102@fedoraproject.org> Message-ID: <200701041627.33717.jkeating@redhat.com> On Thursday 04 January 2007 16:12, Rahul Sundaram wrote: > ? ... and we need to decide on whether we need to use cdrkit or stay > with the current version of cdrecord in Fedora. Let me know if a RFE is > required. Or libburn, which is in Extras. -- Jesse Keating Release Engineer: Fedora -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 189 bytes Desc: not available URL: From sdl.web at gmail.com Thu Jan 4 21:29:23 2007 From: sdl.web at gmail.com (Leo) Date: Thu, 04 Jan 2007 21:29:23 +0000 Subject: Fedora 7 (TeTeX) References: <20070104195032.GE4693@nostromo.devel.redhat.com> <459D6E03.5030702@di.uminho.pt> Message-ID: * Jose Pedro Oliveira (2007-01-04 21:13 +0000) said: ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^ > Bill Nottingham wrote: >> And, what would a release be without features. We've identified >> 28 features that we'd like to include in the release, available >> at http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Releases/7/: > > Don't forget that TeTeX needs to be replaced (see #215497). It will be a pity if it is not fixed for Fedora 7 ;) -- Leo (GPG Key: 9283AA3F) From nutello at sweetness.com Thu Jan 4 21:20:12 2007 From: nutello at sweetness.com (Rudi Chiarito) Date: Thu, 4 Jan 2007 22:20:12 +0100 Subject: Fedora 7 In-Reply-To: <200701041613.50625.jkeating@redhat.com> References: <20070104195032.GE4693@nostromo.devel.redhat.com> <200701041613.50625.jkeating@redhat.com> Message-ID: <20070104212011.GL28367@plain.rackshack.net> On Thu, Jan 04, 2007 at 04:13:50PM -0500, Jesse Keating wrote: > Yes, Fedora Desktop and Fedora Server will probably be the official Fedora Are these for media only? In other words, will there be Fedora Desktop/Server ISOs and corresponding separate network installers? Or will there be separate ISOs, but just one set of network install loaders and images, able to install either (or any other spin, for that matter)? None of the above is obvious from a rapid glance at the wiki. -- Rudi From mattdm at mattdm.org Thu Jan 4 21:37:08 2007 From: mattdm at mattdm.org (Matthew Miller) Date: Thu, 4 Jan 2007 16:37:08 -0500 Subject: Fedora 7 In-Reply-To: <53532.65.223.36.19.1167945317.squirrel@thecodergeek.com> References: <20070104195032.GE4693@nostromo.devel.redhat.com> <20070104205645.GA6194@hurricane.linuxnetz.de> <53532.65.223.36.19.1167945317.squirrel@thecodergeek.com> Message-ID: <20070104213708.GA7759@jadzia.bu.edu> On Thu, Jan 04, 2007 at 01:15:17PM -0800, Peter Gordon wrote: > The %dist tag could be expanded to something like ".fedora7" instead (which is > greater than ".fc6" according to rpmvercmp. I don't think we need every filename and package nevr to be 5 characters longer.... -- Matthew Miller mattdm at mattdm.org Boston University Linux ------> From miles at milessabin.com Thu Jan 4 21:37:37 2007 From: miles at milessabin.com (Miles Sabin) Date: Thu, 4 Jan 2007 21:37:37 +0000 Subject: Fedora 7 In-Reply-To: <20070104195032.GE4693@nostromo.devel.redhat.com> References: <20070104195032.GE4693@nostromo.devel.redhat.com> Message-ID: <200701042137.37918.miles@milessabin.com> Bill Nottingham wrote, > If you've got new features you'd like to add, and you are willing > to do the work, or have the ability to get others to do the work > for you, we can add them too. Note that Test2 is the feature freeze. NetworkManager 0.7? Allegedly due RSN, with a set of new and updated features which looks like it'll finally make NM usable (by me, at least), http://live.gnome.org/NetworkManagerToDo Cheers, Miles From konradr at redhat.com Thu Jan 4 21:45:03 2007 From: konradr at redhat.com (Konrad Rzeszutek) Date: Thu, 4 Jan 2007 16:45:03 -0500 Subject: usb-storage reload In-Reply-To: <20070104121628.82d5b004.zaitcev@redhat.com> References: <20070104121628.82d5b004.zaitcev@redhat.com> Message-ID: <20070104214503.GA19633@dhcp83-12.boston.redhat.com> On Thu, Jan 04, 2007 at 12:16:28PM -0800, Pete Zaitcev wrote: > Gentlemen: > > IBM Bladecenter is killing me slowly for 4th year in a row. But now it > seems a good time to ask, why don't we stop reloading usb-storage? > Since the mount-by-label is essentially mandatory with the migration > to SATA, I do not see how having sda pointing to a floppy can harm > anything anymore. Peter Jones will probably know this better, but how does this relate to creation of 'devices.map' and 'grub.conf' file? I gather that the devices.map would then have: (hd0) /dev/sdb and since this file is used by GRUB to figure out which disk is what device, this could screw GRUB up b/c (hd0) would point to a non-existing device (sda would have been the right drive). > > I'm adding Doug to cc: in case he knows a case where LVM2 encodes > device minors into an on-disk format. > > Yours, > -- Pete > > -- > fedora-devel-list mailing list > fedora-devel-list at redhat.com > https://www.redhat.com/mailman/listinfo/fedora-devel-list -- Konrad Rzeszutek 1-(978)-392-3903 or 1-(617)-693-1718 IBM on-site partner. From jkeating at redhat.com Thu Jan 4 21:48:40 2007 From: jkeating at redhat.com (Jesse Keating) Date: Thu, 4 Jan 2007 16:48:40 -0500 Subject: Fedora 7 In-Reply-To: <20070104212011.GL28367@plain.rackshack.net> References: <20070104195032.GE4693@nostromo.devel.redhat.com> <200701041613.50625.jkeating@redhat.com> <20070104212011.GL28367@plain.rackshack.net> Message-ID: <200701041648.41161.jkeating@redhat.com> On Thursday 04 January 2007 16:20, Rudi Chiarito wrote: > Are these for media only? > > In other words, will there be Fedora Desktop/Server ISOs and > corresponding separate network installers? Or will there be separate ISOs, > but just one set of network install loaders and images, able to install > either (or any other spin, for that matter)? > > None of the above is obvious from a rapid glance at the wiki. We're still fleshing out the details. One idea is that the customized spins will be iso only, the exploaded tree will have everything in it. Any customized spin will have the ability to enable the full repo during the install and gain access to all the software there, likewise minimal boot or rescue isos could be used to install from the large repo as well. The custom spin isos would include the images and such to be able to do network installs, and the iso itself could be used over the network (nfs). -- Jesse Keating Release Engineer: Fedora -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 189 bytes Desc: not available URL: From jkeating at redhat.com Thu Jan 4 21:53:40 2007 From: jkeating at redhat.com (Jesse Keating) Date: Thu, 4 Jan 2007 16:53:40 -0500 Subject: Fedora 7 In-Reply-To: <459D702A.8050705@fedoraproject.org> References: <20070104195032.GE4693@nostromo.devel.redhat.com> <200701041613.50625.jkeating@redhat.com> <459D702A.8050705@fedoraproject.org> Message-ID: <200701041653.40217.jkeating@redhat.com> On Thursday 04 January 2007 16:22, Rahul Sundaram wrote: > It would be consistent to have something like > > Fedora Desktop (GNOME edition) and > Fedora Desktop (KDE edition) > > It's confusing and discriminatory to call one of the spins as the > desktop when you have more (which is likely to increase) than one > desktop oriented spins. That's too many chars for a Volume ID, so it has to be a bit more terse. Perhaps the isos could be named that, but I don't want () in iso names. We are discriminatory by nature. We choose what we want in our package collections, we choose what we want on our isos. Its no mystery that Fedora is a Gnome centric distribution, and it should be no surprise that the Fedora Desktop spin is Gnome based. What community folks choose to name their spins is of not much concern, so long as it makes sense for that spin and doesn't trample any trademarks. Should we go down the route of Fedora Desktop (GNOME/Firefox/evince/OpenOffice.org/gaim/compiz/emacs edition)? -- Jesse Keating Release Engineer: Fedora -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 189 bytes Desc: not available URL: From ajackson at redhat.com Thu Jan 4 21:47:09 2007 From: ajackson at redhat.com (Adam Jackson) Date: Thu, 04 Jan 2007 16:47:09 -0500 Subject: DPI in intel modesetting driver In-Reply-To: References: <1167923865.7683.487.camel@localhost.localdomain> <1167940813.7683.521.camel@localhost.localdomain> Message-ID: <1167947229.7683.534.camel@localhost.localdomain> On Thu, 2007-01-04 at 20:38 +0000, Leo wrote: > * Adam Jackson (2007-01-04 15:00 -0500) said: > ^^^^^^^^^^^^ > >> But X detects the physical DPI wrong. My screen is LCD on a laptop > >> DEll 700M with 1280x800 pixels (262x164 millimeters). > >> > >> If I set "DisplaySize 261 163" in xorg.conf. The dpi is 124x124. > > > > Does your X log show an EDID block being printed? > > Seems NO. (I have Xorg.0.log attached). > > How can I fix this? Seems you can't. You have an LVDS panel, which aren't required to support DDC, and we're not smart enough to look for the panel EDID in ACPI, and there's no magic fields in the BIOS to snoop it out of. So fair enough, in this one case you want to specify it by hand. ;) - ajax From fabio.comolli at gmail.com Thu Jan 4 21:56:43 2007 From: fabio.comolli at gmail.com (Fabio Comolli) Date: Thu, 4 Jan 2007 16:56:43 -0500 Subject: Fedora 7 In-Reply-To: <200701041648.41161.jkeating@redhat.com> References: <20070104195032.GE4693@nostromo.devel.redhat.com> <200701041613.50625.jkeating@redhat.com> <20070104212011.GL28367@plain.rackshack.net> <200701041648.41161.jkeating@redhat.com> Message-ID: On 1/4/07, Jesse Keating wrote: > We're still fleshing out the details. One idea is that the customized spins > will be iso only, the exploaded tree will have everything in it. So what about an 8GB DVD image with everything in it? > -- > Jesse Keating > Release Engineer: Fedora > Regards, Fabio From dledford at redhat.com Thu Jan 4 21:55:11 2007 From: dledford at redhat.com (Doug Ledford) Date: Thu, 04 Jan 2007 16:55:11 -0500 Subject: usb-storage reload In-Reply-To: <20070104214503.GA19633@dhcp83-12.boston.redhat.com> References: <20070104121628.82d5b004.zaitcev@redhat.com> <20070104214503.GA19633@dhcp83-12.boston.redhat.com> Message-ID: <1167947711.20825.32.camel@fc6.xsintricity.com> On Thu, 2007-01-04 at 16:45 -0500, Konrad Rzeszutek wrote: > On Thu, Jan 04, 2007 at 12:16:28PM -0800, Pete Zaitcev wrote: > > Gentlemen: > > > > IBM Bladecenter is killing me slowly for 4th year in a row. But now it > > seems a good time to ask, why don't we stop reloading usb-storage? > > Since the mount-by-label is essentially mandatory with the migration > > to SATA, I do not see how having sda pointing to a floppy can harm > > anything anymore. > > Peter Jones will probably know this better, but how does this relate > to creation of 'devices.map' and 'grub.conf' file? I gather that > the devices.map would then have: > > (hd0) /dev/sdb > > and since this file is used by GRUB to figure out which disk > is what device, this could screw GRUB up b/c (hd0) would point > to a non-existing device (sda would have been the right drive). No, grub handles this fine. The grub device.map just tells the grub-install script which device in /dev to open and what BIOS drive to treat it as where (hd0) = 0x80, (hd1) = 0x81, etc. If the first scsi disk is mapped to /dev/sdb, but it is in fact the boot disk, then the above device line works fine as it has grub write the various boot stage binary bits to /dev/sdb and causes the binary bits to ask for bios device 0x80 when actually used to boot the machine. > > > > I'm adding Doug to cc: in case he knows a case where LVM2 encodes > > device minors into an on-disk format. > > > > Yours, > > -- Pete > > > > -- > > fedora-devel-list mailing list > > fedora-devel-list at redhat.com > > https://www.redhat.com/mailman/listinfo/fedora-devel-list > -- Doug Ledford GPG KeyID: CFBFF194 http://people.redhat.com/dledford Infiniband specific RPMs available at http://people.redhat.com/dledford/Infiniband -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: signature.asc Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 189 bytes Desc: This is a digitally signed message part URL: From dledford at redhat.com Thu Jan 4 21:57:13 2007 From: dledford at redhat.com (Doug Ledford) Date: Thu, 04 Jan 2007 16:57:13 -0500 Subject: usb-storage reload In-Reply-To: <20070104121628.82d5b004.zaitcev@redhat.com> References: <20070104121628.82d5b004.zaitcev@redhat.com> Message-ID: <1167947833.20825.34.camel@fc6.xsintricity.com> On Thu, 2007-01-04 at 12:16 -0800, Pete Zaitcev wrote: > I'm adding Doug to cc: in case he knows a case where LVM2 encodes > device minors into an on-disk format. I'm pretty sure both md and lvm are written to handle changing device names (I know md is, if you reboot with the failed drive removed, all the other drives might change names, and it handles this just fine). -- Doug Ledford GPG KeyID: CFBFF194 http://people.redhat.com/dledford Infiniband specific RPMs available at http://people.redhat.com/dledford/Infiniband -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: signature.asc Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 189 bytes Desc: This is a digitally signed message part URL: From mattdm at mattdm.org Thu Jan 4 22:00:52 2007 From: mattdm at mattdm.org (Matthew Miller) Date: Thu, 4 Jan 2007 17:00:52 -0500 Subject: Fedora 7 In-Reply-To: References: <20070104195032.GE4693@nostromo.devel.redhat.com> <200701041613.50625.jkeating@redhat.com> <20070104212011.GL28367@plain.rackshack.net> <200701041648.41161.jkeating@redhat.com> Message-ID: <20070104220052.GA8962@jadzia.bu.edu> On Thu, Jan 04, 2007 at 04:56:43PM -0500, Fabio Comolli wrote: > >We're still fleshing out the details. One idea is that the customized > >spins > >will be iso only, the exploaded tree will have everything in it. > So what about an 8GB DVD image with everything in it? Okay. But probably the official Fedora mirrors don't want to carry it. -- Matthew Miller mattdm at mattdm.org Boston University Linux ------> From nicolas.mailhot at laposte.net Thu Jan 4 22:01:49 2007 From: nicolas.mailhot at laposte.net (Nicolas Mailhot) Date: Thu, 04 Jan 2007 23:01:49 +0100 Subject: Fedora 7 In-Reply-To: <20070104205645.GA6194@hurricane.linuxnetz.de> References: <20070104195032.GE4693@nostromo.devel.redhat.com> <20070104205645.GA6194@hurricane.linuxnetz.de> Message-ID: <1167948109.21968.3.camel@rousalka.dyndns.org> What happened to the firefox3/xulruner plans ? -- Nicolas Mailhot -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: signature.asc Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 197 bytes Desc: Ceci est une partie de message num?riquement sign?e URL: From jkeating at redhat.com Thu Jan 4 22:05:13 2007 From: jkeating at redhat.com (Jesse Keating) Date: Thu, 4 Jan 2007 17:05:13 -0500 Subject: Fedora 7 In-Reply-To: References: <20070104195032.GE4693@nostromo.devel.redhat.com> <200701041648.41161.jkeating@redhat.com> Message-ID: <200701041705.13688.jkeating@redhat.com> On Thursday 04 January 2007 16:56, Fabio Comolli wrote: > So what about an 8GB DVD image with everything in it? Feel free to burn it, I'm not about to ask that the mirrors carry around an extra 8G per arch iso that just duplicates all the packages already on the file system, and would be used by a very very small percentage of the userbase. -- Jesse Keating Release Engineer: Fedora -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 189 bytes Desc: not available URL: From cmadams at hiwaay.net Thu Jan 4 22:08:40 2007 From: cmadams at hiwaay.net (Chris Adams) Date: Thu, 4 Jan 2007 16:08:40 -0600 Subject: Fedora 7 In-Reply-To: <20070104205645.GA6194@hurricane.linuxnetz.de> References: <20070104195032.GE4693@nostromo.devel.redhat.com> <20070104205645.GA6194@hurricane.linuxnetz.de> Message-ID: <20070104220840.GD1463284@hiwaay.net> Once upon a time, Robert Scheck said: > Sounds nice, even I'm curious whether this can be realized until April. > And What will be the release tagging of the new "Fedora 7"? Won't there be > no magic .fc7 dist any longer? IMHO .f7 looks odd and causes problem with > rpmvercmp. We could take this as reason to rename Fedora again ;-) There was the thought at one point that there may be other Fedora OSes than Linux (the FTP directory structure is fedora/linux/{core,extras}), so the next release could be called "Fedora Linux 7" and use "fl7" for short. -- Chris Adams Systems and Network Administrator - HiWAAY Internet Services I don't speak for anybody but myself - that's enough trouble. From konradr at redhat.com Thu Jan 4 22:10:33 2007 From: konradr at redhat.com (Konrad Rzeszutek) Date: Thu, 4 Jan 2007 17:10:33 -0500 Subject: usb-storage reload In-Reply-To: <1167947833.20825.34.camel@fc6.xsintricity.com> References: <20070104121628.82d5b004.zaitcev@redhat.com> <1167947833.20825.34.camel@fc6.xsintricity.com> Message-ID: <20070104221033.GA21232@dhcp83-12.boston.redhat.com> On Thu, Jan 04, 2007 at 04:57:13PM -0500, Doug Ledford wrote: > On Thu, 2007-01-04 at 12:16 -0800, Pete Zaitcev wrote: > > > I'm adding Doug to cc: in case he knows a case where LVM2 encodes > > device minors into an on-disk format. > > I'm pretty sure both md and lvm are written to handle changing device > names (I know md is, if you reboot with the failed drive removed, all > the other drives might change names, and it handles this just fine). The only worry I can think off is when somebody wants to install without using LVM. So the installer sees /dev/sdb, and puts that in the grub.conf for the kernel root device (root=/dev/sdb). -- Konrad Rzeszutek 1-(978)-392-3903 or 1-(617)-693-1718 IBM on-site partner. From mark at borkware.net Thu Jan 4 22:15:37 2007 From: mark at borkware.net (Mark Rosenstand) Date: Thu, 04 Jan 2007 23:15:37 +0100 Subject: Fedora 7 (TeTeX) In-Reply-To: <200701041627.33717.jkeating@redhat.com> References: <20070104195032.GE4693@nostromo.devel.redhat.com> <459D6E03.5030702@di.uminho.pt> <459D6DDB.6050102@fedoraproject.org> <200701041627.33717.jkeating@redhat.com> Message-ID: <1167948937.918.9.camel@mjollnir.borkware.net> On Thu, 2007-01-04 at 16:27 -0500, Jesse Keating wrote: > On Thursday 04 January 2007 16:12, Rahul Sundaram wrote: > > ... and we need to decide on whether we need to use cdrkit or stay > > with the current version of cdrecord in Fedora. Let me know if a RFE is > > required. > > Or libburn, which is in Extras. libburn is only a library, and a slowly progressing one (latest release was in Feb 2004). There was a project takeover at some point (some unknown guy suddenly announced a project revival and a new web site at libburn.pykix.org, not minding that the project was still active...) which instead resulted in a fork called libburnia which integrates a cdrecord-like frontend. I'm not sure how usable it is, but it's certainly far from being as mature as cdrtools (or cdrkit.) From jkeating at redhat.com Thu Jan 4 22:17:41 2007 From: jkeating at redhat.com (Jesse Keating) Date: Thu, 4 Jan 2007 17:17:41 -0500 Subject: Fedora 7 (TeTeX) In-Reply-To: <1167948937.918.9.camel@mjollnir.borkware.net> References: <20070104195032.GE4693@nostromo.devel.redhat.com> <200701041627.33717.jkeating@redhat.com> <1167948937.918.9.camel@mjollnir.borkware.net> Message-ID: <200701041717.41843.jkeating@redhat.com> On Thursday 04 January 2007 17:15, Mark Rosenstand wrote: > There was a project takeover at some point (some > unknown guy suddenly announced a project revival and a new web site at > libburn.pykix.org, not minding that the project was still active...) > which instead resulted in a fork called libburnia which integrates a > cdrecord-like frontend. I'm not sure how usable it is, but it's > certainly far from being as mature as cdrtools (or cdrkit.) Yes, this is what is in Extras right now, I packaged it up at the request of these folks. http://libburnia.pykix.org/ is the "new" URL now. They've been progressing quite well from what I can tell. Sure, probably not ready for Fedora by F7, but something to investigate by more knowledgeable people. -- Jesse Keating Release Engineer: Fedora -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 189 bytes Desc: not available URL: From sundaram at fedoraproject.org Thu Jan 4 22:14:03 2007 From: sundaram at fedoraproject.org (Rahul Sundaram) Date: Fri, 05 Jan 2007 03:44:03 +0530 Subject: Fedora 7 In-Reply-To: <200701041653.40217.jkeating@redhat.com> References: <20070104195032.GE4693@nostromo.devel.redhat.com> <200701041613.50625.jkeating@redhat.com> <459D702A.8050705@fedoraproject.org> <200701041653.40217.jkeating@redhat.com> Message-ID: <459D7C2B.6080509@fedoraproject.org> Jesse Keating wrote: > On Thursday 04 January 2007 16:22, Rahul Sundaram wrote: >> It would be consistent to have something like >> >> Fedora Desktop (GNOME edition) and >> Fedora Desktop (KDE edition) >> >> It's confusing and discriminatory to call one of the spins as the >> desktop when you have more (which is likely to increase) than one >> desktop oriented spins. > > That's too many chars for a Volume ID, so it has to be a bit more terse. > Perhaps the isos could be named that, but I don't want () in iso names. The volume id can be different from the full name. Feel free to abbreviate it in the volume id and drop the braces in the ISO filename. I am just > We are discriminatory by nature. We choose what we want in our package > collections, we choose what we want on our isos. We dont need to be though. We can put every package in a DVD and make it available in a different directory for mirrors to sync if they want to or just make it a torrent only release. We have a sizable segment of users who need packages to be in the media due to unavailability of broadband connections and network access. It is not much of a burden for us to produce a DVD release with everything in it. Please do consider it. Its no mystery that Fedora > is a Gnome centric distribution, and it should be no surprise that the Fedora > Desktop spin is Gnome based. After opening up development we have really no need to do so since the resources available to us has massively increased (more packagers, pungi, pilgrim etc). The whole point of us doing different spins to move off from this idea of being centric on some things. What community folks choose to name their spins > is of not much concern, so long as it makes sense for that spin and doesn't > trample any trademarks. Good branding is very much a key concern. We are making major changes here and have a chance to change past impressions. Let's get it right this time. Should we go down the route of Fedora Desktop > (GNOME/Firefox/evince/OpenOffice.org/gaim/compiz/emacs edition)? No but a desktop environment is not at the same level as rest of the components here as clearly demonstrated by us planning to do two different spins based on just that. If you are going to call one of the spins Fedora KDE, it is no more confusing to call the other one Fedora GNOME. Seriously. Rahul From tibbs at math.uh.edu Thu Jan 4 22:19:11 2007 From: tibbs at math.uh.edu (Jason L Tibbitts III) Date: 04 Jan 2007 16:19:11 -0600 Subject: Fedora 7 In-Reply-To: <200701041653.40217.jkeating@redhat.com> References: <20070104195032.GE4693@nostromo.devel.redhat.com> <200701041613.50625.jkeating@redhat.com> <459D702A.8050705@fedoraproject.org> <200701041653.40217.jkeating@redhat.com> Message-ID: >>>>> "JK" == Jesse Keating writes: JK> Its no mystery that Fedora is a Gnome centric distribution, and it JK> should be no surprise that the Fedora Desktop spin is Gnome based. Umm, isn't the Fedora supposed to become the community's distribution, and so isn't it up to the community to decide whether Fedora is "anything"-centric? I could care less about naming either way, but declaring up-front that regardless of what the community does or wants, Fedora is still going to favor any specific technology seems counterproductive in this new spirit of complete community involvement. - J< From fabio.comolli at gmail.com Thu Jan 4 22:20:39 2007 From: fabio.comolli at gmail.com (Fabio Comolli) Date: Thu, 4 Jan 2007 17:20:39 -0500 Subject: Fedora 7 In-Reply-To: <200701041705.13688.jkeating@redhat.com> References: <20070104195032.GE4693@nostromo.devel.redhat.com> <200701041648.41161.jkeating@redhat.com> <200701041705.13688.jkeating@redhat.com> Message-ID: On 1/4/07, Jesse Keating wrote: > On Thursday 04 January 2007 16:56, Fabio Comolli wrote: > > So what about an 8GB DVD image with everything in it? > > Feel free to burn it, I'm not about to ask that the mirrors carry around an > extra 8G per arch iso that just duplicates all the packages already on the > file system, and would be used by a very very small percentage of the > userbase. > I wasn't thinking of an "extra" 8GB: I was thinking of small ISOs for people who use network boot and only an 8GB ISO for the distribution. In this way you won't have to carry an ISO for "Fedora Desktop", another on for "Fedora Server", "Fedora KDE" and so on. Maybe in 8GB you can put both the i386 and x86-64 images, like Solaris10 does for example. However, it's just my 2? :-) Fabio > -- > Jesse Keating > Release Engineer: Fedora > > > -- > fedora-devel-list mailing list > fedora-devel-list at redhat.com > https://www.redhat.com/mailman/listinfo/fedora-devel-list > > > From jkeating at redhat.com Thu Jan 4 22:23:09 2007 From: jkeating at redhat.com (Jesse Keating) Date: Thu, 4 Jan 2007 17:23:09 -0500 Subject: Fedora 7 In-Reply-To: References: <20070104195032.GE4693@nostromo.devel.redhat.com> <200701041653.40217.jkeating@redhat.com> Message-ID: <200701041723.10075.jkeating@redhat.com> On Thursday 04 January 2007 17:19, Jason L Tibbitts III wrote: > I could care less about naming either way, but declaring up-front that > regardless of what the community does or wants, Fedora is still going > to favor any specific technology seems counterproductive in this new > spirit of complete community involvement. You're right, I think those writing software for Fedora and doing integration work for Fedora are the ones who will decide what centric Fedora is, and to this point, that's all been gnome/gtk, python, etc... Do you see that changing drastically anytime soon? -- Jesse Keating Release Engineer: Fedora -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 189 bytes Desc: not available URL: From dennis at ausil.us Thu Jan 4 22:27:02 2007 From: dennis at ausil.us (Dennis Gilmore) Date: Thu, 4 Jan 2007 16:27:02 -0600 Subject: Fedora 7 In-Reply-To: <200701041723.10075.jkeating@redhat.com> References: <20070104195032.GE4693@nostromo.devel.redhat.com> <200701041723.10075.jkeating@redhat.com> Message-ID: <200701041627.02940.dennis@ausil.us> On Thursday 04 January 2007 16:23, Jesse Keating wrote: > On Thursday 04 January 2007 17:19, Jason L Tibbitts III wrote: > > I could care less about naming either way, but declaring up-front that > > regardless of what the community does or wants, Fedora is still going > > to favor any specific technology seems counterproductive in this new > > spirit of complete community involvement. > > You're right, I think those writing software for Fedora and doing > integration work for Fedora are the ones who will decide what centric > Fedora is, and to this point, that's all been gnome/gtk, python, etc... Do > you see that changing drastically anytime soon? Time to port everything to PyQT ;) i dont see it changing but i do see other things taking off. -- ?,-._|\ ? ?Dennis Gilmore, RHCE /Aussie\ ? Proud Australian \_.--._/ ? | Aurora | Fedora | ? ? ? v ? ? From otto_rey at yahoo.com.ar Thu Jan 4 21:27:06 2007 From: otto_rey at yahoo.com.ar (Otto Rey) Date: Thu, 4 Jan 2007 13:27:06 -0800 (PST) Subject: Fedora Core 7 - Compiz vs Beryl Message-ID: <20070104212706.44899.qmail@web52412.mail.yahoo.com> What do you think about to replace Compiz with Beryl, and merge "Desktop Effects" with "Beryl Manager" in FC7? My vote: +1 Otto Rey __________________________________________________ Correo Yahoo! Espacio para todos tus mensajes, antivirus y antispam ?gratis! ?Abr? tu cuenta ya! - http://correo.yahoo.com.ar -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From jkeating at redhat.com Thu Jan 4 22:27:33 2007 From: jkeating at redhat.com (Jesse Keating) Date: Thu, 4 Jan 2007 17:27:33 -0500 Subject: Fedora 7 In-Reply-To: References: <20070104195032.GE4693@nostromo.devel.redhat.com> <200701041705.13688.jkeating@redhat.com> Message-ID: <200701041727.33782.jkeating@redhat.com> On Thursday 04 January 2007 17:20, Fabio Comolli wrote: > I wasn't thinking of an "extra" 8GB: I was thinking of small ISOs for > people who use network boot and only an 8GB ISO for the distribution. > > In this way you won't have to carry an ISO for "Fedora Desktop", > another on for "Fedora Server", "Fedora KDE" and so on. > > Maybe in 8GB you can put both the i386 and x86-64 images, like > Solaris10 does for example. > > However, it's just my 2? :-) The targetted spins were for iso download, so you could carry it with you or not have to hit the network for every package. Otherwise what would be the point, you'd just select that group from the installer. -- Jesse Keating Release Engineer: Fedora -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 189 bytes Desc: not available URL: From sundaram at fedoraproject.org Thu Jan 4 22:27:51 2007 From: sundaram at fedoraproject.org (Rahul Sundaram) Date: Fri, 05 Jan 2007 03:57:51 +0530 Subject: Fedora Core 7 - Compiz vs Beryl In-Reply-To: <20070104212706.44899.qmail@web52412.mail.yahoo.com> References: <20070104212706.44899.qmail@web52412.mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <459D7F67.9080809@fedoraproject.org> Otto Rey wrote: > What do you think about to replace Compiz with Beryl, and merge "Desktop > Effects" with "Beryl Manager" in FC7? > > My vote: +1 See http://www.redhat.com/archives/fedora-maintainers/2006-November/msg00006.html. This isnt something we do by voting. Rahul From jwboyer at jdub.homelinux.org Thu Jan 4 22:33:08 2007 From: jwboyer at jdub.homelinux.org (Josh Boyer) Date: Thu, 04 Jan 2007 16:33:08 -0600 Subject: Fedora 7 In-Reply-To: <200701041723.10075.jkeating@redhat.com> References: <20070104195032.GE4693@nostromo.devel.redhat.com> <200701041653.40217.jkeating@redhat.com> <200701041723.10075.jkeating@redhat.com> Message-ID: <1167949988.3836.88.camel@zod.rchland.ibm.com> On Thu, 2007-01-04 at 17:23 -0500, Jesse Keating wrote: > On Thursday 04 January 2007 17:19, Jason L Tibbitts III wrote: > > I could care less about naming either way, but declaring up-front that > > regardless of what the community does or wants, Fedora is still going > > to favor any specific technology seems counterproductive in this new > > spirit of complete community involvement. > > You're right, I think those writing software for Fedora and doing integration > work for Fedora are the ones who will decide what centric Fedora is, and to > this point, that's all been gnome/gtk, python, etc... Do you see that > changing drastically anytime soon? We don't know. We haven't worked out anything yet. For example, merging the Core cabal and FESCo. To declare anything before more groundwork is completed is fairly pointless. josh From pbrobinson at gmail.com Thu Jan 4 22:37:05 2007 From: pbrobinson at gmail.com (Peter Robinson) Date: Thu, 4 Jan 2007 22:37:05 +0000 Subject: Fedora 7 In-Reply-To: References: <20070104195032.GE4693@nostromo.devel.redhat.com> <200701041613.50625.jkeating@redhat.com> <20070104212011.GL28367@plain.rackshack.net> <200701041648.41161.jkeating@redhat.com> Message-ID: <5256d0b0701041437k4e2e1f92qe6f68fb9b8b5def3@mail.gmail.com> Or a 4g dvd image with server and desktop combined (a sort of equivilant to core now) Peter On 1/4/07, Fabio Comolli wrote: > On 1/4/07, Jesse Keating wrote: > > > We're still fleshing out the details. One idea is that the customized > spins > > will be iso only, the exploaded tree will have everything in it. > > So what about an 8GB DVD image with everything in it? > > > -- > > Jesse Keating > > Release Engineer: Fedora > > > > > Regards, > Fabio > > -- > fedora-devel-list mailing list > fedora-devel-list at redhat.com > https://www.redhat.com/mailman/listinfo/fedora-devel-list > From rob at choralone.org Thu Jan 4 22:34:18 2007 From: rob at choralone.org (Rob Andrews) Date: Thu, 4 Jan 2007 22:34:18 +0000 Subject: Fedora Core 7 - Compiz vs Beryl In-Reply-To: <20070104212706.44899.qmail@web52412.mail.yahoo.com> References: <20070104212706.44899.qmail@web52412.mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <20070104223418.GA17664@aphasia.badger.choralone.org> On 04-Jan-2007 21:27.06 (GMT), Otto Rey wrote: > What do you think about to replace Compiz with Beryl, and merge "Desktop > Effects" with "Beryl Manager" in FC7? Out of the box, Fedora is simple to install and easy enough to use (even *with* compiz) that a newcomer should find it mostly simple enough to use. beryl's settings panel is a UI road traffic accident in the making, and may well not be simple enough to make sense to a newcomer by the time FC7 is readied. I'd have to disagree that it's ready for general consumption just yet. Not to mention the fact that some GLX/AIGLX implementations aren't mature enough yet to run it stably and without issues like the screen turning white. -- rob andrews :: pgp 0x01e00563 :: rob at choralone.org From dennis at ausil.us Thu Jan 4 22:47:21 2007 From: dennis at ausil.us (Dennis Gilmore) Date: Thu, 4 Jan 2007 16:47:21 -0600 Subject: Fedora 7 In-Reply-To: <20070104195032.GE4693@nostromo.devel.redhat.com> References: <20070104195032.GE4693@nostromo.devel.redhat.com> Message-ID: <200701041647.21979.dennis@ausil.us> On Thursday 04 January 2007 13:50, Bill Nottingham wrote: > > And, what would a release be without features. We've identified > 28 features that we'd like to include in the release, available > at http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Releases/7/Features: Whats needed to add Fedora Directory Server to the List? that would be a great additional tool to have in F7 -- ?,-._|\ ? ?Dennis Gilmore, RHCE /Aussie\ ? Proud Australian \_.--._/ ? | Aurora | Fedora | ? ? ? v ? ? From jkeating at redhat.com Thu Jan 4 22:49:33 2007 From: jkeating at redhat.com (Jesse Keating) Date: Thu, 4 Jan 2007 17:49:33 -0500 Subject: Fedora 7 In-Reply-To: <200701041647.21979.dennis@ausil.us> References: <20070104195032.GE4693@nostromo.devel.redhat.com> <200701041647.21979.dennis@ausil.us> Message-ID: <200701041749.33764.jkeating@redhat.com> On Thursday 04 January 2007 17:47, Dennis Gilmore wrote: > Whats needed to add Fedora Directory Server to the List? ?that would be a > great additional tool to have in F7 Somebody to be on the hook to make sure it gets done in time for the deadlines. From Releases/7 page: I've got this great feature idea! OK. Are you going to work on it? Can you cajole/force someone else to be Accountable? Then we'll add it! -- Jesse Keating Release Engineer: Fedora -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 189 bytes Desc: not available URL: From mark at borkware.net Thu Jan 4 22:54:42 2007 From: mark at borkware.net (Mark Rosenstand) Date: Thu, 04 Jan 2007 23:54:42 +0100 Subject: Fedora 7 (TeTeX) In-Reply-To: <200701041717.41843.jkeating@redhat.com> References: <20070104195032.GE4693@nostromo.devel.redhat.com> <200701041627.33717.jkeating@redhat.com> <1167948937.918.9.camel@mjollnir.borkware.net> <200701041717.41843.jkeating@redhat.com> Message-ID: <1167951282.918.28.camel@mjollnir.borkware.net> On Thu, 2007-01-04 at 17:17 -0500, Jesse Keating wrote: > On Thursday 04 January 2007 17:15, Mark Rosenstand wrote: > > There was a project takeover at some point (some > > unknown guy suddenly announced a project revival and a new web site at > > libburn.pykix.org, not minding that the project was still active...) > > which instead resulted in a fork called libburnia which integrates a > > cdrecord-like frontend. I'm not sure how usable it is, but it's > > certainly far from being as mature as cdrtools (or cdrkit.) > > Yes, this is what is in Extras right now, I packaged it up at the request of > these folks. http://libburnia.pykix.org/ is the "new" URL now. Heh. I've been the maintainer of the real libburn (http://icculus.org/burn/) for another distro for a long time, and the forker claimed that my package was broken since it referenced the "old" URL of the project. That was after calling for project revival[0] and after the libburn project leader dismissed it[1]. It's cool that they now switched to another name, perhaps the Fedora package could do the same. > They've been progressing quite well from what I can tell. Sure, probably not > ready for Fedora by F7, but something to investigate by more knowledgeable > people. Agreed. The idea of a generic CD-writing library seems like a worthy long-term goal, but for FL7, cdrkit, being a free drop-in replacement of S(ch)illy's programs, could probably do the trick. [0] http://lists.freedesktop.org/archives/libburn/2006-July/000434.html [1] http://lists.freedesktop.org/archives/libburn/2006-August/000444.html From ajackson at redhat.com Thu Jan 4 22:50:01 2007 From: ajackson at redhat.com (Adam Jackson) Date: Thu, 04 Jan 2007 17:50:01 -0500 Subject: Fedora Core 7 - Compiz vs Beryl In-Reply-To: <20070104212706.44899.qmail@web52412.mail.yahoo.com> References: <20070104212706.44899.qmail@web52412.mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <1167951001.7683.544.camel@localhost.localdomain> On Thu, 2007-01-04 at 13:27 -0800, Otto Rey wrote: > What do you think about to replace Compiz with Beryl, and merge > "Desktop Effects" with "Beryl Manager" in FC7? > > My vote: +1 When beryl learns what a sensible UI looks like, we'll talk. The current incarnation is a horror Hieronymus Bosch would be proud of. - ajax From pjones at redhat.com Thu Jan 4 22:57:24 2007 From: pjones at redhat.com (Peter Jones) Date: Thu, 04 Jan 2007 17:57:24 -0500 Subject: usb-storage reload In-Reply-To: <20070104221033.GA21232@dhcp83-12.boston.redhat.com> References: <20070104121628.82d5b004.zaitcev@redhat.com> <1167947833.20825.34.camel@fc6.xsintricity.com> <20070104221033.GA21232@dhcp83-12.boston.redhat.com> Message-ID: <1167951444.4446.7.camel@localhost.localdomain> On Thu, 2007-01-04 at 17:10 -0500, Konrad Rzeszutek wrote: > On Thu, Jan 04, 2007 at 04:57:13PM -0500, Doug Ledford wrote: > > On Thu, 2007-01-04 at 12:16 -0800, Pete Zaitcev wrote: > > > > > I'm adding Doug to cc: in case he knows a case where LVM2 encodes > > > device minors into an on-disk format. > > > > I'm pretty sure both md and lvm are written to handle changing device > > names (I know md is, if you reboot with the failed drive removed, all > > the other drives might change names, and it handles this just fine). > > The only worry I can think off is when somebody wants to install without > using LVM. So the installer sees /dev/sdb, and puts that in > the grub.conf for the kernel root device (root=/dev/sdb). No, it puts "root=LABEL=/". -- Peter From jreiser at BitWagon.com Thu Jan 4 22:59:34 2007 From: jreiser at BitWagon.com (John Reiser) Date: Thu, 04 Jan 2007 14:59:34 -0800 Subject: usb-storage reload In-Reply-To: <20070104221033.GA21232@dhcp83-12.boston.redhat.com> References: <20070104121628.82d5b004.zaitcev@redhat.com> <1167947833.20825.34.camel@fc6.xsintricity.com> <20070104221033.GA21232@dhcp83-12.boston.redhat.com> Message-ID: <459D86D6.4060203@BitWagon.com> Konrad Rzeszutek wrote: > On Thu, Jan 04, 2007 at 04:57:13PM -0500, Doug Ledford wrote: > >>On Thu, 2007-01-04 at 12:16 -0800, Pete Zaitcev wrote: >> >> >>>I'm adding Doug to cc: in case he knows a case where LVM2 encodes >>>device minors into an on-disk format. >> >>I'm pretty sure both md and lvm are written to handle changing device >>names (I know md is, if you reboot with the failed drive removed, all >>the other drives might change names, and it handles this just fine). > > > The only worry I can think off is when somebody wants to install without > using LVM. So the installer sees /dev/sdb, and puts that in > the grub.conf for the kernel root device (root=/dev/sdb). For many years "root=LABEL=/" has been the anaconda default for kernel commandline parameter, (at least when not using LVM.) This was motivated by the possible renumbering of [SCSI] drives even when _adding_ a new good drive. There still are grub.conf stanza lines such as splashimage=(hd0,0)/grub/splash.xpm.gz and root (hd1,0) which do name physical partitions [frequently not whole physical drives.] -- From pertusus at free.fr Thu Jan 4 22:56:30 2007 From: pertusus at free.fr (Patrice Dumas) Date: Thu, 4 Jan 2007 23:56:30 +0100 Subject: Fedora 7 In-Reply-To: <20070104195032.GE4693@nostromo.devel.redhat.com> References: <20070104195032.GE4693@nostromo.devel.redhat.com> Message-ID: <20070104225630.GC2578@free.fr> On Thu, Jan 04, 2007 at 02:50:32PM -0500, Bill Nottingham wrote: > > And, what would a release be without features. We've identified > 28 features that we'd like to include in the release, available > at http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Releases/7/Features: It seemed to me that java 1.5 was also planned for fc7. Is it right? Also, maybe it could be worth considering allowing to use fcron instead of anacron+cron. -- Pat From cra at WPI.EDU Thu Jan 4 23:10:48 2007 From: cra at WPI.EDU (Chuck Anderson) Date: Thu, 4 Jan 2007 18:10:48 -0500 Subject: Fedora 7 In-Reply-To: <1167945026.6344.0.camel@zelda.fubar.dk> References: <20070104195032.GE4693@nostromo.devel.redhat.com> <1167945026.6344.0.camel@zelda.fubar.dk> Message-ID: <20070104231048.GH3822@angus.ind.WPI.EDU> On Thu, Jan 04, 2007 at 04:10:26PM -0500, David Zeuthen wrote: > > > - Make LiveCDs as a part of the distribution release process > > > > Cool ! Is this installable like "Ubuntu livecd" ? Installable? As in the unpacked tree on the CD will be copied to the hard disk, keeping the RPM database updated correctly? Sounds neat--it may be faster to install that way rather than installing RPMs the normal way. The trick would be getting upgrades to work that way too :-) From jamatos at fc.up.pt Thu Jan 4 23:10:40 2007 From: jamatos at fc.up.pt (=?iso-8859-1?q?Jos=E9_Matos?=) Date: Thu, 4 Jan 2007 23:10:40 +0000 Subject: Fedora 7 In-Reply-To: <20070104225630.GC2578@free.fr> References: <20070104195032.GE4693@nostromo.devel.redhat.com> <20070104225630.GC2578@free.fr> Message-ID: <200701042310.41040.jamatos@fc.up.pt> On Thursday 04 January 2007 10:56 pm, Patrice Dumas wrote: > It seemed to me that java 1.5 was also planned for fc7. Is it right? I remember the opposite. :-) March is a too tight schedule for F7, and java is heavy-weight by any account. ;-) (I am referring the package relations not run-time...) > -- > Pat -- Jos? Ab?lio From zboszor at freemail.hu Thu Jan 4 23:10:53 2007 From: zboszor at freemail.hu (Zoltan Boszormenyi) Date: Fri, 05 Jan 2007 00:10:53 +0100 Subject: Fedora 7 In-Reply-To: <20070104195032.GE4693@nostromo.devel.redhat.com> References: <20070104195032.GE4693@nostromo.devel.redhat.com> Message-ID: <459D897D.2070501@freemail.hu> Bill Nottingham ?rta: > It's time to bite the bullet. > ... > - Add wireless firmware for all the chipsets we can > Speaking of hardware that needs firmware to work at all, how about adding the foo2zjs driver and the firmware for the cheap HP LaserJet series like 1000/1015/1018/1020? Best regards, Zolt?n B?szorm?nyi From david at fubar.dk Thu Jan 4 23:14:03 2007 From: david at fubar.dk (David Zeuthen) Date: Thu, 04 Jan 2007 18:14:03 -0500 Subject: Fedora 7 In-Reply-To: References: <20070104195032.GE4693@nostromo.devel.redhat.com> <200701041613.50625.jkeating@redhat.com> <459D702A.8050705@fedoraproject.org> <200701041653.40217.jkeating@redhat.com> Message-ID: <1167952443.2847.8.camel@zelda.fubar.dk> On Thu, 2007-01-04 at 16:19 -0600, Jason L Tibbitts III wrote: > Umm, isn't the Fedora supposed to become the community's distribution, > and so isn't it up to the community to decide whether Fedora is > "anything"-centric? Sorry for being direct, but it's a little bit delusional to think that just because Core + Extras is getting merged that it's now all community controlled. In other words, I expect Red Hat employees to still be the significant contributor for a long long time (would *love* to be proved wrong!) and at Red Hat we have, at least, 25 times as many people working on the GNOME than the KDE. There's a reason most successful open source projects have benevolent dictators and it's not all a democracy. Thanks. David From cra at WPI.EDU Thu Jan 4 23:14:26 2007 From: cra at WPI.EDU (Chuck Anderson) Date: Thu, 4 Jan 2007 18:14:26 -0500 Subject: Fedora 7 In-Reply-To: <200701041705.13688.jkeating@redhat.com> References: <20070104195032.GE4693@nostromo.devel.redhat.com> <200701041648.41161.jkeating@redhat.com> <200701041705.13688.jkeating@redhat.com> Message-ID: <20070104231426.GI3822@angus.ind.WPI.EDU> On Thu, Jan 04, 2007 at 05:05:13PM -0500, Jesse Keating wrote: > On Thursday 04 January 2007 16:56, Fabio Comolli wrote: > > So what about an 8GB DVD image with everything in it? > > Feel free to burn it, I'm not about to ask that the mirrors carry around an > extra 8G per arch iso that just duplicates all the packages already on the > file system, and would be used by a very very small percentage of the > userbase. Well, we could use jigdo and just distribute template files for those who wish to assemble the full 8G iso. From david at fubar.dk Thu Jan 4 23:20:15 2007 From: david at fubar.dk (David Zeuthen) Date: Thu, 04 Jan 2007 18:20:15 -0500 Subject: Fedora 7 In-Reply-To: <20070104231048.GH3822@angus.ind.WPI.EDU> References: <20070104195032.GE4693@nostromo.devel.redhat.com> <1167945026.6344.0.camel@zelda.fubar.dk> <20070104231048.GH3822@angus.ind.WPI.EDU> Message-ID: <1167952815.2847.14.camel@zelda.fubar.dk> On Thu, 2007-01-04 at 18:10 -0500, Chuck Anderson wrote: > Installable? As in the unpacked tree on the CD will be copied to the > hard disk, keeping the RPM database updated correctly? Sounds > neat--it may be faster to install that way rather than installing RPMs > the normal way. The trick would be getting upgrades to work that way > too :-) Yes, it's much much much faster; we simply do "dd if=os.img of=/dev/sda2" [1] and once that is done we "e2resizefs /dev/sda2" and finally we configure the system. If you run the live CD from RAM then the install time takes 3-4 minutes (on a 2GHz system with 1GB RAM). If not running the live CD from RAM then it's around 7-8 minutes. Some time next week I'll post an RPM (to fedora-livecd-list) that you can install onto the FC6 live CD (remember it got a rw rootfs) so testing can commence. The installer is text based right now but writing a small GTK+ app for this is relatively easy. David [1] : where os.img stems from the live cd and is the ext3 fs.. and /dev/sda2 is the target partition From saikat at cs.cornell.edu Thu Jan 4 23:24:12 2007 From: saikat at cs.cornell.edu (Saikat Guha) Date: Thu, 04 Jan 2007 18:24:12 -0500 Subject: Fedora 7 In-Reply-To: <200701042310.41040.jamatos@fc.up.pt> References: <20070104195032.GE4693@nostromo.devel.redhat.com> <20070104225630.GC2578@free.fr> <200701042310.41040.jamatos@fc.up.pt> Message-ID: <1167953052.20239.5.camel@sioux.systems.cs.cornell.edu> On Thu, 2007-01-04 at 23:10 +0000, Jos? Matos wrote: > On Thursday 04 January 2007 10:56 pm, Patrice Dumas wrote: > > It seemed to me that java 1.5 was also planned for fc7. Is it right? > > I remember the opposite. :-) > > March is a too tight schedule for F7, and java is heavy-weight by any > account. ;-) (I am referring the package relations not run-time...) FYI: Jpackage [1] has been packaging SUN's java (distributed as a .nosrc.rpm that reuires SUN's .bin file to build the .rpm) for a long time. Seems to play nice with alternatives, naming, location of files etc. Perhaps worth a look for Fedora 7? [1] http://mirrors.dotsrc.org/jpackage/1.6/generic/non-free/repodata/repoview/java-1.5.0-sun-0-1.5.0.10-2jpp.html -- Saikat -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: signature.asc Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 189 bytes Desc: This is a digitally signed message part URL: From giallu at gmail.com Thu Jan 4 23:25:47 2007 From: giallu at gmail.com (Gianluca Sforna) Date: Fri, 5 Jan 2007 00:25:47 +0100 Subject: Fedora 7 In-Reply-To: <20070104195032.GE4693@nostromo.devel.redhat.com> References: <20070104195032.GE4693@nostromo.devel.redhat.com> Message-ID: On 1/4/07, Bill Nottingham wrote: > > And, what would a release be without features. We've identified > 28 features that we'd like to include in the release, available > at http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Releases/7/Features: Nothing about anaconda? In particular, the partitioning phase is (more or less) the same since FC1 and not having something in place to resize an existing (most likely ntfs) partition is a big drawback when compared to other distros. Just for the records, I used ntfsresize successfully with the last laptop I installed FC6 onto. From jspaleta at gmail.com Thu Jan 4 23:28:40 2007 From: jspaleta at gmail.com (Jeff Spaleta) Date: Thu, 4 Jan 2007 14:28:40 -0900 Subject: Fedora 7 In-Reply-To: References: <20070104195032.GE4693@nostromo.devel.redhat.com> <200701041613.50625.jkeating@redhat.com> <459D702A.8050705@fedoraproject.org> <200701041653.40217.jkeating@redhat.com> Message-ID: <604aa7910701041528i299a6518g137947b54eb6dcef@mail.gmail.com> On 04 Jan 2007 16:19:11 -0600, Jason L Tibbitts III wrote: > Umm, isn't the Fedora supposed to become the community's distribution, > and so isn't it up to the community to decide whether Fedora is > "anything"-centric? The community has spoken... Fedora 7 will be dolphin-centric. -jef From cra at WPI.EDU Thu Jan 4 23:35:40 2007 From: cra at WPI.EDU (Chuck Anderson) Date: Thu, 4 Jan 2007 18:35:40 -0500 Subject: Fedora 7 In-Reply-To: <604aa7910701041528i299a6518g137947b54eb6dcef@mail.gmail.com> References: <20070104195032.GE4693@nostromo.devel.redhat.com> <200701041613.50625.jkeating@redhat.com> <459D702A.8050705@fedoraproject.org> <200701041653.40217.jkeating@redhat.com> <604aa7910701041528i299a6518g137947b54eb6dcef@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <20070104233540.GL3822@angus.ind.WPI.EDU> On Thu, Jan 04, 2007 at 02:28:40PM -0900, Jeff Spaleta wrote: > The community has spoken... Fedora 7 will be dolphin-centric. I thought it was seal-centric? http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Releases/FeatureFixWakeups?highlight=%28CategoryFedora7Features%29 From tromey at redhat.com Thu Jan 4 21:31:45 2007 From: tromey at redhat.com (Tom Tromey) Date: 04 Jan 2007 14:31:45 -0700 Subject: Fedora 7 In-Reply-To: <1167953052.20239.5.camel@sioux.systems.cs.cornell.edu> References: <20070104195032.GE4693@nostromo.devel.redhat.com> <20070104225630.GC2578@free.fr> <200701042310.41040.jamatos@fc.up.pt> <1167953052.20239.5.camel@sioux.systems.cs.cornell.edu> Message-ID: >>>>> ">" == Saikat Guha writes: >> FYI: Jpackage [1] has been packaging SUN's java (distributed as >> a .nosrc.rpm that reuires SUN's .bin file to build the .rpm) for a long >> time. Seems to play nice with alternatives, naming, location of files >> etc. Perhaps worth a look for Fedora 7? It isn't free software. We'll be taking a close look at OpenJDK once all the bits have been released. I'm pretty sure this will miss Fedora 7 and have to wait for Fedora 8. Tom From tromey at redhat.com Thu Jan 4 21:33:53 2007 From: tromey at redhat.com (Tom Tromey) Date: 04 Jan 2007 14:33:53 -0700 Subject: Fedora 7 In-Reply-To: <20070104225630.GC2578@free.fr> References: <20070104195032.GE4693@nostromo.devel.redhat.com> <20070104225630.GC2578@free.fr> Message-ID: >>>>> "Patrice" == Patrice Dumas writes: Patrice> It seemed to me that java 1.5 was also planned for fc7. Is it right? We'll be merging all the 1.5 stuff into the Fedora gcj soon... pretty much as soon as a compiler branch is made in GCC svn. Tom From tibbs at math.uh.edu Thu Jan 4 23:50:50 2007 From: tibbs at math.uh.edu (Jason L Tibbitts III) Date: 04 Jan 2007 17:50:50 -0600 Subject: Fedora 7 In-Reply-To: <1167952443.2847.8.camel@zelda.fubar.dk> References: <20070104195032.GE4693@nostromo.devel.redhat.com> <200701041613.50625.jkeating@redhat.com> <459D702A.8050705@fedoraproject.org> <200701041653.40217.jkeating@redhat.com> <1167952443.2847.8.camel@zelda.fubar.dk> Message-ID: >>>>> "DZ" == David Zeuthen writes: DZ> Sorry for being direct, but it's a little bit delusional to think DZ> that just because Core + Extras is getting merged that it's now DZ> all community controlled. Well, thanks for deflating the hype. So, according to you, the hype about the grand merge with the community is indeed just hype. Look, either it's going to happen or people need to stop hyping it as if it is going to happen. Since both positions are coming out of Red Hat at the moment and those of us involved in community governance (i.e. us in FESCo) are still somewhat in the dark, it will be really nice to see the truth of the situation. DZ> In other words, I expect Red Hat employees to still be the DZ> significant contributor for a long long time (would *love* to be DZ> proved wrong!) and at Red Hat we have, at least, 25 times as many DZ> people working on the GNOME than the KDE. So? My comments weren't about gnome versus kde. I have no reason to expect other than that portions of the project which receive the greater number of developers from wherever in the community will make the most progress. My comments are about whether Red Hat plans to be just a part of the community, and your comments seem to answer than in the negative. Which is directly contradictory to what other folks from Red Hat have been saying. DZ> There's a reason most successful open source projects have DZ> benevolent dictators and it's not all a democracy. Thanks. This statement also contradicts statements from others at Red Hat. It would be really nice to know just what is actually going to happen. - J< From notting at redhat.com Thu Jan 4 23:52:10 2007 From: notting at redhat.com (Bill Nottingham) Date: Thu, 4 Jan 2007 18:52:10 -0500 Subject: Fedora Core 7 - Compiz vs Beryl In-Reply-To: <20070104212706.44899.qmail@web52412.mail.yahoo.com> References: <20070104212706.44899.qmail@web52412.mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <20070104235210.GA9781@nostromo.devel.redhat.com> Otto Rey (otto_rey at yahoo.com.ar) said: > What do you think about to replace Compiz with Beryl, and merge "Desktop Effects" with "Beryl Manager" in FC7? Dear god no. Beryl is COMPLETELY INSANE. Bill From smooge at gmail.com Thu Jan 4 23:54:55 2007 From: smooge at gmail.com (Stephen John Smoogen) Date: Thu, 4 Jan 2007 16:54:55 -0700 Subject: Fedora Core 7 - Compiz vs Beryl In-Reply-To: <20070104235210.GA9781@nostromo.devel.redhat.com> References: <20070104212706.44899.qmail@web52412.mail.yahoo.com> <20070104235210.GA9781@nostromo.devel.redhat.com> Message-ID: <80d7e4090701041554x5cba5276s93ef8b454c3365e0@mail.gmail.com> On 1/4/07, Bill Nottingham wrote: > Otto Rey (otto_rey at yahoo.com.ar) said: > > What do you think about to replace Compiz with Beryl, and merge "Desktop Effects" with "Beryl Manager" in FC7? > > Dear god no. Beryl is COMPLETELY INSANE. > How about JUST sugarUI? -- Stephen J Smoogen. -- CSIRT/Linux System Administrator How far that little candle throws his beams! So shines a good deed in a naughty world. = Shakespeare. "The Merchant of Venice" From chitlesh at fedoraproject.org Fri Jan 5 00:01:16 2007 From: chitlesh at fedoraproject.org (Chitlesh GOORAH) Date: Fri, 5 Jan 2007 01:01:16 +0100 Subject: Fedora Core 7 - Compiz vs Beryl In-Reply-To: <459D7F67.9080809@fedoraproject.org> References: <20070104212706.44899.qmail@web52412.mail.yahoo.com> <459D7F67.9080809@fedoraproject.org> Message-ID: <13dbfe4f0701041601l7e6504c6we6d41516882006b9@mail.gmail.com> On 1/4/07, Rahul Sundaram wrote: > See > http://www.redhat.com/archives/fedora-maintainers/2006-November/msg00006.html. > This isnt something we do by voting. But at least the maintainer of beryl, reads and listens to its users/bug report, whereas that of compiz, he never replied to bug reports on bugzilla. Chitlesh -- http://clunixchit.blogspot.com From david at fubar.dk Fri Jan 5 00:11:30 2007 From: david at fubar.dk (David Zeuthen) Date: Thu, 04 Jan 2007 19:11:30 -0500 Subject: Fedora 7 In-Reply-To: References: <20070104195032.GE4693@nostromo.devel.redhat.com> <200701041613.50625.jkeating@redhat.com> <459D702A.8050705@fedoraproject.org> <200701041653.40217.jkeating@redhat.com> <1167952443.2847.8.camel@zelda.fubar.dk> Message-ID: <1167955890.2787.8.camel@zelda.fubar.dk> On Thu, 2007-01-04 at 17:50 -0600, Jason L Tibbitts III wrote: > >>>>> "DZ" == David Zeuthen writes: > > DZ> Sorry for being direct, but it's a little bit delusional to think > DZ> that just because Core + Extras is getting merged that it's now > DZ> all community controlled. > > Well, thanks for deflating the hype. So, according to you, the hype > about the grand merge with the community is indeed just hype. Don't be a drama queen, of course it's not hype. I'm just saying, for example, that many of the core desktop packages that I personally maintain will still be under my control and there will still be a desktop team at Red Hat where we decide on features for the next release and coordinate the maintenance of said packages. And now with Core being opened up.. to me it means that everyone can apply patches but for my packages it still needs ACK / coordination from me. How is this different from Extras today and why on earth should it be different? Do you think the merge means that anyone can apply any patch to any package? That's really naive. We have an open mailing list too for contributors, sadly it doesn't receive a lot of useful traffic. Maybe it's because we do our work upstream as we all should. For the record, we also have close relationship to many desktop community members for example Richard Hughes which is an active Fedora user. (and in the paragraph above 'we' means people working on desktop packages and that's not restricted to RH employees though today it's mostly only RH employees. To tell you the truth not a lot of Fedora contributors have shown interest in the desktop apart from ranting about it.) > DZ> In other words, I expect Red Hat employees to still be the > DZ> significant contributor for a long long time (would *love* to be > DZ> proved wrong!) and at Red Hat we have, at least, 25 times as many > DZ> people working on the GNOME than the KDE. > > So? My comments weren't about gnome versus kde. I have no reason to > expect other than that portions of the project which receive the > greater number of developers from wherever in the community will make > the most progress. My comments are about whether Red Hat plans to be > just a part of the community, and your comments seem to answer than in > the negative. Which is directly contradictory to what other folks > from Red Hat have been saying. > > DZ> There's a reason most successful open source projects have > DZ> benevolent dictators and it's not all a democracy. Thanks. > > This statement also contradicts statements from others at Red Hat. It > would be really nice to know just what is actually going to happen. You are implying I'm speaking for Red Hat which I'm clearly not. Don't do that. Thanks. David From david at lovesunix.net Fri Jan 5 00:12:54 2007 From: david at lovesunix.net (David Nielsen) Date: Fri, 05 Jan 2007 01:12:54 +0100 Subject: Fedora 7 In-Reply-To: <20070104195032.GE4693@nostromo.devel.redhat.com> References: <20070104195032.GE4693@nostromo.devel.redhat.com> Message-ID: <1167955974.2795.4.camel@dawkins> tor, 04 01 2007 kl. 14:50 -0500, skrev Bill Nottingham: > And, what would a release be without features. We've identified > 28 features that we'd like to include in the release, available > at http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Releases/7/Features: There was for a long time interest in replacing the much hated esd with another solution. Pulseaudio was suggested and is already in Extras. To be a drop in replacement I think all we need is a package for the gstreamer sink. Would this be feasble for Fedora 7? > Here's to making Fedora 7 the best release yet! No objections - David Nielsen -- "Ridicule is the only weapon that can be used against unintelligible propositions. Ideas must be distinct before reason can act upon them.? -Thomas Jefferson -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: signature.asc Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 189 bytes Desc: Dette er en digitalt underskrevet brevdel URL: From david at fubar.dk Fri Jan 5 00:14:08 2007 From: david at fubar.dk (David Zeuthen) Date: Thu, 04 Jan 2007 19:14:08 -0500 Subject: Fedora 7 In-Reply-To: <1167955890.2787.8.camel@zelda.fubar.dk> References: <20070104195032.GE4693@nostromo.devel.redhat.com> <200701041613.50625.jkeating@redhat.com> <459D702A.8050705@fedoraproject.org> <200701041653.40217.jkeating@redhat.com> <1167952443.2847.8.camel@zelda.fubar.dk> <1167955890.2787.8.camel@zelda.fubar.dk> Message-ID: <1167956048.2787.10.camel@zelda.fubar.dk> On Thu, 2007-01-04 at 19:11 -0500, David Zeuthen wrote: > We have an open mailing list too for contributors, Just to clarify the mailing list I'm talking about is fedora-desktop-list. David From a.badger at gmail.com Fri Jan 5 00:25:15 2007 From: a.badger at gmail.com (Toshio Kuratomi) Date: Thu, 04 Jan 2007 16:25:15 -0800 Subject: Fedora 7 In-Reply-To: <1167955974.2795.4.camel@dawkins> References: <20070104195032.GE4693@nostromo.devel.redhat.com> <1167955974.2795.4.camel@dawkins> Message-ID: <1167956715.23361.119.camel@localhost.localdomain> On Fri, 2007-01-05 at 01:12 +0100, David Nielsen wrote: > tor, 04 01 2007 kl. 14:50 -0500, skrev Bill Nottingham: > > > And, what would a release be without features. We've identified > > 28 features that we'd like to include in the release, available > > at http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Releases/7/Features: > > There was for a long time interest in replacing the much hated esd with > another solution. Pulseaudio was suggested and is already in Extras. To > be a drop in replacement I think all we need is a package for the > gstreamer sink. > > Would this be feasble for Fedora 7? I had some issues with pulseaudio playing with other apps that I regrettably didn't file (reinstalled with FC6 soon after and forgot about it.) I think esd releases the sound device after a period of inactivity which allows other applications to use it whereas pulseaudio doesn't. Not sure though as I tried running padsp and some other things with no change. Regardless, we should evaluate how well pulseaudio plays with other programs early in the cycle so we have a chance to find and fix any little compatibility issues that crop up. -Toshio -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: signature.asc Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 189 bytes Desc: This is a digitally signed message part URL: From naoki at valuecommerce.com Fri Jan 5 00:28:28 2007 From: naoki at valuecommerce.com (Naoki) Date: Fri, 05 Jan 2007 09:28:28 +0900 Subject: Fedora 7 In-Reply-To: <20070104212011.GL28367@plain.rackshack.net> References: <20070104195032.GE4693@nostromo.devel.redhat.com> <200701041613.50625.jkeating@redhat.com> <20070104212011.GL28367@plain.rackshack.net> Message-ID: <1167956908.2172.36.camel@dragon.valuecommerce.ne.jp> I'm pretty sure my idea of Destop/Workstation/Server is going to be substantially different from other people's, probably every time I build a box it'll change. So I hope it's just ISOs and the installed is generic and allows for package groups to be selected. The network installer right now is very flexible which is it's strength. > In other words, will there be Fedora Desktop/Server ISOs and > corresponding separate network installers? Or will there be separate ISOs, but > just one set of network install loaders and images, able to install > either (or any other spin, for that matter)? > > None of the above is obvious from a rapid glance at the wiki. > > -- > Rudi > From a.badger at gmail.com Fri Jan 5 00:29:14 2007 From: a.badger at gmail.com (Toshio Kuratomi) Date: Thu, 04 Jan 2007 16:29:14 -0800 Subject: Fedora Core 7 - Compiz vs Beryl In-Reply-To: <80d7e4090701041554x5cba5276s93ef8b454c3365e0@mail.gmail.com> References: <20070104212706.44899.qmail@web52412.mail.yahoo.com> <20070104235210.GA9781@nostromo.devel.redhat.com> <80d7e4090701041554x5cba5276s93ef8b454c3365e0@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <1167956954.23361.123.camel@localhost.localdomain> On Thu, 2007-01-04 at 16:54 -0700, Stephen John Smoogen wrote: > On 1/4/07, Bill Nottingham wrote: > > Otto Rey (otto_rey at yahoo.com.ar) said: > > > What do you think about to replace Compiz with Beryl, and merge "Desktop Effects" with "Beryl Manager" in FC7? > > > > Dear god no. Beryl is COMPLETELY INSANE. > > > > How about JUST sugarUI? > If Rahul hadn't already posted the note about voting, I'd +1 this just for the audacity of the idea :-) -Toshio "Who wonders if it's feasible to package SugarUI for Extras^WFedora" -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: signature.asc Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 189 bytes Desc: This is a digitally signed message part URL: From mclasen at redhat.com Fri Jan 5 00:34:07 2007 From: mclasen at redhat.com (Matthias Clasen) Date: Thu, 04 Jan 2007 19:34:07 -0500 Subject: Fedora 7 In-Reply-To: <1167956715.23361.119.camel@localhost.localdomain> References: <20070104195032.GE4693@nostromo.devel.redhat.com> <1167955974.2795.4.camel@dawkins> <1167956715.23361.119.camel@localhost.localdomain> Message-ID: <1167957247.3273.7.camel@localhost.localdomain> On Thu, 2007-01-04 at 16:25 -0800, Toshio Kuratomi wrote: > Regardless, we should evaluate how well pulseaudio plays with other > programs early in the cycle so we have a chance to find and fix any > little compatibility issues that crop up. This is on Monty's TODO list for F7. I don't know if he put the writeup of his "fix audio" plans in the wiki yet (he has recently been distracted by more important things), but I'm sure he'll be happy about any help with testing and evaluation. Matthias From sdl.web at gmail.com Fri Jan 5 00:33:33 2007 From: sdl.web at gmail.com (Leo) Date: Fri, 05 Jan 2007 00:33:33 +0000 Subject: DPI in intel modesetting driver References: <1167923865.7683.487.camel@localhost.localdomain> <1167940813.7683.521.camel@localhost.localdomain> <1167947229.7683.534.camel@localhost.localdomain> Message-ID: * Adam Jackson (2007-01-04 16:47 -0500) said: ^^^^^^^^^^^^ > On Thu, 2007-01-04 at 20:38 +0000, Leo wrote: >> * Adam Jackson (2007-01-04 15:00 -0500) said: >> ^^^^^^^^^^^^ >> >> But X detects the physical DPI wrong. My screen is LCD on a laptop > >> >> DEll 700M with 1280x800 pixels (262x164 millimeters). >> >> >> >> If I set "DisplaySize 261 163" in xorg.conf. The dpi is 124x124. >> > >> > Does your X log show an EDID block being printed? >> >> Seems NO. (I have Xorg.0.log attached). >> >> How can I fix this? > > Seems you can't. You have an LVDS panel, which aren't required to > support DDC, and we're not smart enough to look for the panel EDID in > ACPI, and there's no magic fields in the BIOS to snoop it out of. > > So fair enough, in this one case you want to specify it by hand. ;) > > - ajax Thank you for this. -- Leo (GPG Key: 9283AA3F) From naoki at valuecommerce.com Fri Jan 5 00:36:34 2007 From: naoki at valuecommerce.com (Naoki) Date: Fri, 05 Jan 2007 09:36:34 +0900 Subject: Fedora Core 7 - Compiz vs Beryl In-Reply-To: <20070104212706.44899.qmail@web52412.mail.yahoo.com> References: <20070104212706.44899.qmail@web52412.mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <1167957394.2172.46.camel@dragon.valuecommerce.ne.jp> Compiz is the upstream original, Beryl is a fork. Compiz uses gconf which is pretty standard and works well with gnome obviously, Beryl uses flat file. Beryl has (had?) some additional plugins, but plugins are being written for compiz all the time as well, look at compiz-extras. Beryl has a theme manager, compiz uses cairo, metacity, or KDE themes. They look the same to me but Compiz just seems to be the better integrated of the two. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Beryl_(window_manager) http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Compiz On Thu, 2007-01-04 at 13:27 -0800, Otto Rey wrote: > What do you think about to replace Compiz with Beryl, and merge > "Desktop Effects" with "Beryl Manager" in FC7? > > My vote: +1 > > Otto Rey > > > __________________________________________________ > Correo Yahoo! > Espacio para todos tus mensajes, antivirus y antispam ?gratis! > ?Abr? tu cuenta ya! - http://correo.yahoo.com.ar > -- > fedora-devel-list mailing list > fedora-devel-list at redhat.com > https://www.redhat.com/mailman/listinfo/fedora-devel-list From david at lovesunix.net Fri Jan 5 00:51:19 2007 From: david at lovesunix.net (David Nielsen) Date: Fri, 05 Jan 2007 01:51:19 +0100 Subject: Fedora 7 In-Reply-To: <1167957247.3273.7.camel@localhost.localdomain> References: <20070104195032.GE4693@nostromo.devel.redhat.com> <1167955974.2795.4.camel@dawkins> <1167956715.23361.119.camel@localhost.localdomain> <1167957247.3273.7.camel@localhost.localdomain> Message-ID: <1167958279.2795.9.camel@dawkins> tor, 04 01 2007 kl. 19:34 -0500, skrev Matthias Clasen: > On Thu, 2007-01-04 at 16:25 -0800, Toshio Kuratomi wrote: > > > Regardless, we should evaluate how well pulseaudio plays with other > > programs early in the cycle so we have a chance to find and fix any > > little compatibility issues that crop up. > > This is on Monty's TODO list for F7. I don't know if he put the > writeup of his "fix audio" plans in the wiki yet (he has recently been > distracted by more important things), but I'm sure he'll be happy > about any help with testing and evaluation. Monty, Please shine your rays of enlightenment on us, your meager subjects. Also I'll happily test anything so long as it's reasonably easily installable. - David -- "Ridicule is the only weapon that can be used against unintelligible propositions. Ideas must be distinct before reason can act upon them.? -Thomas Jefferson -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: signature.asc Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 189 bytes Desc: Dette er en digitalt underskrevet brevdel URL: From netmask at webset.net Fri Jan 5 01:25:54 2007 From: netmask at webset.net (Mauricio Teixeira (netmask)) Date: Thu, 04 Jan 2007 22:25:54 -0300 Subject: Fedora 7 In-Reply-To: <200701041648.41161.jkeating@redhat.com> References: <20070104195032.GE4693@nostromo.devel.redhat.com> <200701041613.50625.jkeating@redhat.com> <20070104212011.GL28367@plain.rackshack.net> <200701041648.41161.jkeating@redhat.com> Message-ID: <1167960354.3290.8.camel@mteixeira.homelinux.net> Em Qui, 2007-01-04 ?s 16:48 -0500, Jesse Keating escreveu: > We're still fleshing out the details. One idea is that the customized spins > will be iso only, the exploaded tree will have everything in it. Any If that's the case, why not just having well designed patterns/groups/selections/whatever so that the user can choose between either one during install? For that matter it would be needed to have a well defined 'base system' and build the 'install types' on it, but I personally don't see the need for a spin. Just MHO. -- % Mauricio Teixeira (netmask) | Maceio/AL/BR % % mteixeira{a}webset{d}net | http://smartpm.org % % http://mteixeira.webset.net | http://pmping.sf.net % From netmask at webset.net Fri Jan 5 01:29:24 2007 From: netmask at webset.net (Mauricio Teixeira (netmask)) Date: Thu, 04 Jan 2007 22:29:24 -0300 Subject: Fedora 7 In-Reply-To: References: <20070104195032.GE4693@nostromo.devel.redhat.com> <200701041613.50625.jkeating@redhat.com> <20070104212011.GL28367@plain.rackshack.net> <200701041648.41161.jkeating@redhat.com> Message-ID: <1167960564.3290.12.camel@mteixeira.homelinux.net> Em Qui, 2007-01-04 ?s 16:56 -0500, Fabio Comolli escreveu: > So what about an 8GB DVD image with everything in it? SUSE uses standard 4GB DVD with an extra repository on-line, but if you buy their boxed version you can choose between 2 4G DVD set or 1 8GB DVD. Mandriva also have a multi 4GB DVD release (IIRC, 2 DVD), but not an 8GB DVD. You just need to remember that in some countries (like Brazil, for instance) it's really difficult (almost impossible) to find 8GB medias (and if you find, they are *very* expensive). So if the distro vendor doesn't provide it, you would be excluding a lot of users. -- % Mauricio Teixeira (netmask) | Maceio/AL/BR % % mteixeira{a}webset{d}net | http://smartpm.org % % http://mteixeira.webset.net | http://pmping.sf.net % From florin at andrei.myip.org Fri Jan 5 01:36:11 2007 From: florin at andrei.myip.org (Florin Andrei) Date: Thu, 04 Jan 2007 17:36:11 -0800 Subject: Fedora 7 In-Reply-To: <20070104195032.GE4693@nostromo.devel.redhat.com> References: <20070104195032.GE4693@nostromo.devel.redhat.com> Message-ID: <459DAB8B.4060400@andrei.myip.org> Bill Nottingham wrote: > 30 January 2007 | F7 Test1 Release I'm torn between really wanting to test the Test Releases on my hardware, and the need to have an at least relatively stable OS to do my work. So if y'all could add a Live CD to the Fedora Test releases, that would be awesome. It won't test the installer or the disk storage, but it will be able to test pretty much everything else. -- Florin Andrei http://florin.myip.org/ From jspaleta at gmail.com Fri Jan 5 01:38:43 2007 From: jspaleta at gmail.com (Jeff Spaleta) Date: Thu, 4 Jan 2007 16:38:43 -0900 Subject: Fedora 7 In-Reply-To: References: <20070104195032.GE4693@nostromo.devel.redhat.com> <200701041613.50625.jkeating@redhat.com> <459D702A.8050705@fedoraproject.org> <200701041653.40217.jkeating@redhat.com> <1167952443.2847.8.camel@zelda.fubar.dk> Message-ID: <604aa7910701041738jd3e7c73l5cb9e0b5481ce16c@mail.gmail.com> On 04 Jan 2007 17:50:50 -0600, Jason L Tibbitts III wrote: > DZ> There's a reason most successful open source projects have > DZ> benevolent dictators and it's not all a democracy. Thanks. > > This statement also contradicts statements from others at Red Hat. It > would be really nice to know just what is actually going to happen. I haven't seen anything, anywhere, to suggest this is going to be a democracy. The merger is going to be more like opening federally owned land for homesteading. Basically everyone is going to rush out and stake some claims for fertile pieces of unclaimed packaging space. From those individual homesteaders packaging communities will be built, some fated to thrive, and some fated to be ghost towns in a couple of years. Did you know that homesteading was still going on in Alaska till the 1980's? The brave new merged world, is going to be more collaborative, and certainly more supportive of community efforts which are not directly inline with Red Hat directed initiatives. But don't get the wrong idea, there will still be conflicts of interest, and at the end of the day groups of package owners working in teams will be setting the directions for that subgroup of packages and driving development forward in conjunction of the rest of the packaging space. For Gnome, the driver seat in the Fedora space is clearly filled by RedHat engineers so don't expect that to change. The merger makes it possible for new people to drive new initiatives in tangent with current ones. Just don't expect to claim jump existing homesteads, and forcibly change the direction. But for other things, that RedHat doesn't have resources invested in, the merger will definitely matter. For example we all want to see the people who are interested in keeping KDE on Fedora sane have a chance to work on it without undue frustrations. Its no big secret that RedHat is not making an investment of engineering time into KDE, so continuing to have it chained up inside a RedHat internal buildsystem where none of the interested community members can get access to it blocks that. The merger of the infrastructure absolutely is forward progress towards fixing some of the problems with KDE in Fedora. The real question is who is going to end up becoming the benevolent dictators of the KDE space and is there enough community manpower to keep KDE afloat. The merger provides the access, but there will absolutely have to be strong doers to drive the work, instead of just talkers. I certainly expect Rex to be involved because he has some momentum here with his community built packages for KDE. And I also expect people leading Fedora Unity to have a hand in the release engineering aspects of pooping out a KDE-centric installer image since they have already done livecd spins for KDE. Whomever the drivers of KDE packaging and installable media end up being inside the Fedora community, they will absolutely end up making decisions which piss off some KDE users. Conflicts of interest are inevitable, even for packaging drivers not sitting inside the RedHat fenceline. -jef"The merger doesn't so much as change anything with regard to control of existing things. The merger provides access so the fedora project can better support new community initiatives with fedora project infrastructure."spaleta From david at lovesunix.net Fri Jan 5 01:44:03 2007 From: david at lovesunix.net (David Nielsen) Date: Fri, 05 Jan 2007 02:44:03 +0100 Subject: rawhide report: 20070104 changes In-Reply-To: <200701042008.l04K8Ron030833@hs20-bc2-6.build.redhat.com> References: <200701042008.l04K8Ron030833@hs20-bc2-6.build.redhat.com> Message-ID: <1167961443.2795.16.camel@dawkins> tor, 04 01 2007 kl. 15:08 -0500, skrev buildsys at redhat.com: > > evolution-sharp-0.12.1-1.fc7 > ---------------------------- > * Wed Jan 03 2007 Matthew Barnes - 0.12.1-1.fc7 > - Mono files now live in /usr/lib rather than /usr/lib. One wonders, then one checks CVS for the actual commit message. /usr/lib(64) -> /usr/lib - isn't this bound to be unsafe for 64bit systems? - David -- "Ridicule is the only weapon that can be used against unintelligible propositions. Ideas must be distinct before reason can act upon them.? -Thomas Jefferson -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: signature.asc Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 189 bytes Desc: Dette er en digitalt underskrevet brevdel URL: From jwboyer at jdub.homelinux.org Fri Jan 5 01:44:07 2007 From: jwboyer at jdub.homelinux.org (Josh Boyer) Date: Thu, 04 Jan 2007 19:44:07 -0600 Subject: Fedora 7 In-Reply-To: <459D897D.2070501@freemail.hu> References: <20070104195032.GE4693@nostromo.devel.redhat.com> <459D897D.2070501@freemail.hu> Message-ID: <1167961447.3159.11.camel@vader.jdub.homelinux.org> On Fri, 2007-01-05 at 00:10 +0100, Zoltan Boszormenyi wrote: > Bill Nottingham ?rta: > > It's time to bite the bullet. > > ... > > - Add wireless firmware for all the chipsets we can > > > > Speaking of hardware that needs firmware to work at all, > how about adding the foo2zjs driver and the firmware for > the cheap HP LaserJet series like 1000/1015/1018/1020? Is it freely redistributable? URL? josh From florin at andrei.myip.org Fri Jan 5 01:48:51 2007 From: florin at andrei.myip.org (Florin Andrei) Date: Thu, 04 Jan 2007 17:48:51 -0800 Subject: Fedora 7 In-Reply-To: <20070104195032.GE4693@nostromo.devel.redhat.com> References: <20070104195032.GE4693@nostromo.devel.redhat.com> Message-ID: <459DAE83.2030506@andrei.myip.org> Bill Nottingham wrote: > 20 February 2007 | F7 FEATURE Freeze Maybe I'm partial to this topic, but I really like the idea of an inotify daemon: http://incron.aiken.cz/ https://www.redhat.com/archives/fedora-extras-list/2007-January/thread.html#00081 Let's say - if I whip up an RPM tonight and submit it to Extras, what would be the chances to get a sponsor and push the package to Extras in time for the F7 feature freeze? Pretty please? :-) -- Florin Andrei http://florin.myip.org/ From jwboyer at jdub.homelinux.org Fri Jan 5 01:51:26 2007 From: jwboyer at jdub.homelinux.org (Josh Boyer) Date: Thu, 04 Jan 2007 19:51:26 -0600 Subject: Fedora 7 In-Reply-To: <459DAE83.2030506@andrei.myip.org> References: <20070104195032.GE4693@nostromo.devel.redhat.com> <459DAE83.2030506@andrei.myip.org> Message-ID: <1167961886.3159.13.camel@vader.jdub.homelinux.org> On Thu, 2007-01-04 at 17:48 -0800, Florin Andrei wrote: > Bill Nottingham wrote: > > > 20 February 2007 | F7 FEATURE Freeze > > Maybe I'm partial to this topic, but I really like the idea of an > inotify daemon: > > http://incron.aiken.cz/ > > https://www.redhat.com/archives/fedora-extras-list/2007-January/thread.html#00081 > > Let's say - if I whip up an RPM tonight and submit it to Extras, what > would be the chances to get a sponsor and push the package to Extras in > time for the F7 feature freeze? That needs to be worked out yet. Extras is a rolling release at the moment. In the Brave New World, we'll need to seriously look at that and figure out what to do. josh From jspaleta at gmail.com Fri Jan 5 02:02:43 2007 From: jspaleta at gmail.com (Jeff Spaleta) Date: Thu, 4 Jan 2007 17:02:43 -0900 Subject: Fedora 7 In-Reply-To: <459DAE83.2030506@andrei.myip.org> References: <20070104195032.GE4693@nostromo.devel.redhat.com> <459DAE83.2030506@andrei.myip.org> Message-ID: <604aa7910701041802s74d931a6we0e147a05e39166f@mail.gmail.com> On 1/4/07, Florin Andrei wrote: > Let's say - if I whip up an RPM tonight and submit it to Extras, what > would be the chances to get a sponsor If you do not want to wait for a sponsor I will take lead maintainership of the package and work with you through the review process. You can be co-maintainer and get and file bugreports and can send any potential cvs commits to me for me to process via bugzilla. This will get it into extras asap, but does not address the question of release engineering such an item into publishable install targets. -jef From netmask at webset.net Fri Jan 5 02:05:01 2007 From: netmask at webset.net (Mauricio Teixeira (netmask)) Date: Thu, 04 Jan 2007 23:05:01 -0300 Subject: Fedora 7 In-Reply-To: <20070104195032.GE4693@nostromo.devel.redhat.com> References: <20070104195032.GE4693@nostromo.devel.redhat.com> Message-ID: <1167962701.3290.28.camel@mteixeira.homelinux.net> Em Qui, 2007-01-04 ?s 14:50 -0500, Bill Nottingham escreveu: > - Make wireless rock-solid > - Add wireless firmware for all the chipsets we can I'm quite new to Fedora (came from other distros), and some things I'll be discussing bellow may already be implemented somehow, but I couldn't easily find them. If that's the case, please ignore me. Speaking about wireless, I would have two suggestions: #1 - Having some *very* easy way to switch between NetworkManager and regular 'ifup'. I know SUSE has something similar: you just go into their network configuration tool and select a radio box (Use NM / Use ifup). It would be cool for laptop users that roam a lot (like me). If there is nobody available to work on that, I would be glad to if you point me the directions on whom should I coordinate with. #2 - Improving the system-config-securitylevel. This I need to split in two: #2.1 - The current way of setting up firewall rules is excessively simple, and makes it very difficult to have simple things like internet connection sharing for a home network. It would be very cool to have the ability to configure a simple 1:N NAT and some port redirection. #2.2 - The local firewall has no logging feature. It's quite difficult for a user/home admin to know why something is not working if you don't have any kind of logs about what is being dropped because of the firewall blocking. Probably having logging enabled by default could be just overkill (most end-users won't care about it), but having a way to enable/configure logging would help those people a lot. I think I can help with most things suggested, I just need to know where to start. :) -- % Mauricio Teixeira (netmask) | Maceio/AL/BR % % mteixeira{a}webset{d}net | http://smartpm.org % % http://mteixeira.webset.net | http://pmping.sf.net % From florin at andrei.myip.org Fri Jan 5 02:20:14 2007 From: florin at andrei.myip.org (Florin Andrei) Date: Thu, 04 Jan 2007 18:20:14 -0800 Subject: Fedora 7 In-Reply-To: <604aa7910701041802s74d931a6we0e147a05e39166f@mail.gmail.com> References: <20070104195032.GE4693@nostromo.devel.redhat.com> <459DAE83.2030506@andrei.myip.org> <604aa7910701041802s74d931a6we0e147a05e39166f@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <459DB5DE.2050501@andrei.myip.org> Jeff Spaleta wrote: > > If you do not want to wait for a sponsor I will take lead > maintainership of the package and work with you through the review > process. You can be co-maintainer and get and file bugreports and can > send any potential cvs commits to me for me to process via bugzilla. Sounds good to me. > This will get it into extras asap, but does not address the question > of release engineering such an item into publishable install targets. Well, at least it's there so people can play with it and try and see just how far it can go. -- Florin Andrei http://florin.myip.org/ From naoki at valuecommerce.com Fri Jan 5 02:24:09 2007 From: naoki at valuecommerce.com (Naoki) Date: Fri, 05 Jan 2007 11:24:09 +0900 Subject: Fedora 7 In-Reply-To: <20070104195032.GE4693@nostromo.devel.redhat.com> References: <20070104195032.GE4693@nostromo.devel.redhat.com> Message-ID: <1167963849.2172.91.camel@dragon.valuecommerce.ne.jp> This is going to sound really stupid but what the heck; The nice thing about the "core" and "extras" differentiation was you knew what was "core" and what was "extra". Without this distinction how does average Joe know that compiz is preferred over beryl, or that xmms is the option to Rhythmbox not the other way around? Just the definition inside comps.xml or something more complex? We can give access to well over 5,000 packages in the same place but won't it be a bit of a jumble? Also, how will this help the creation of RHEL? If Fedora is to remain the basis for RHEL will this not slightly confuse things? From notting at redhat.com Fri Jan 5 02:41:31 2007 From: notting at redhat.com (Bill Nottingham) Date: Thu, 4 Jan 2007 21:41:31 -0500 Subject: Fedora 7 In-Reply-To: <1167948109.21968.3.camel@rousalka.dyndns.org> References: <20070104195032.GE4693@nostromo.devel.redhat.com> <20070104205645.GA6194@hurricane.linuxnetz.de> <1167948109.21968.3.camel@rousalka.dyndns.org> Message-ID: <20070105024131.GI10665@nostromo.devel.redhat.com> Nicolas Mailhot (nicolas.mailhot at laposte.net) said: > What happened to the firefox3/xulruner plans ? Utterly dependent on upstream. I suppose it's worth checking on. Bill From notting at redhat.com Fri Jan 5 02:42:37 2007 From: notting at redhat.com (Bill Nottingham) Date: Thu, 4 Jan 2007 21:42:37 -0500 Subject: Fedora 7 In-Reply-To: <20070104231048.GH3822@angus.ind.WPI.EDU> References: <20070104195032.GE4693@nostromo.devel.redhat.com> <1167945026.6344.0.camel@zelda.fubar.dk> <20070104231048.GH3822@angus.ind.WPI.EDU> Message-ID: <20070105024237.GJ10665@nostromo.devel.redhat.com> Chuck Anderson (cra at WPI.EDU) said: > Installable? As in the unpacked tree on the CD will be copied to the > hard disk, keeping the RPM database updated correctly? Yes, that's the plan. > Sounds neat--it may be faster to install that way rather than installing RPMs > the normal way. The trick would be getting upgrades to work that way > too :-) Hahahahaha... no. Bill From notting at redhat.com Fri Jan 5 02:44:01 2007 From: notting at redhat.com (Bill Nottingham) Date: Thu, 4 Jan 2007 21:44:01 -0500 Subject: Fedora 7 In-Reply-To: <20070104220052.GA8962@jadzia.bu.edu> References: <20070104195032.GE4693@nostromo.devel.redhat.com> <200701041613.50625.jkeating@redhat.com> <20070104212011.GL28367@plain.rackshack.net> <200701041648.41161.jkeating@redhat.com> <20070104220052.GA8962@jadzia.bu.edu> Message-ID: <20070105024401.GK10665@nostromo.devel.redhat.com> Matthew Miller (mattdm at mattdm.org) said: > On Thu, Jan 04, 2007 at 04:56:43PM -0500, Fabio Comolli wrote: > > >We're still fleshing out the details. One idea is that the customized > > >spins > > >will be iso only, the exploaded tree will have everything in it. > > So what about an 8GB DVD image with everything in it? > > Okay. > > But probably the official Fedora mirrors don't want to carry it. It's entirely possible such a thing would be Bittorrent-only. Bill From katzj at redhat.com Fri Jan 5 02:45:50 2007 From: katzj at redhat.com (Jeremy Katz) Date: Thu, 04 Jan 2007 21:45:50 -0500 Subject: usb-storage reload In-Reply-To: <20070104121628.82d5b004.zaitcev@redhat.com> References: <20070104121628.82d5b004.zaitcev@redhat.com> Message-ID: <1167965150.10344.45.camel@aglarond.local> On Thu, 2007-01-04 at 12:16 -0800, Pete Zaitcev wrote: > IBM Bladecenter is killing me slowly for 4th year in a row. But now it > seems a good time to ask, why don't we stop reloading usb-storage? > Since the mount-by-label is essentially mandatory with the migration > to SATA, I do not see how having sda pointing to a floppy can harm > anything anymore. It's not necessarily so much for the mount case as much as for being able to have a consistent and understandable way to refer to disks during the install as much as the afterwards parts. But we need to be able to refer to a specific disk during a kickstart, for example, and usb-storage can really throw off people's expectations there. One thing that might be worth looking at is having usb-storage loaded later so that we only have to think about the reload (or the naming) as a concern for the case where the user has used a driver disk on some kind of usb storage Jeremy From notting at redhat.com Fri Jan 5 02:46:24 2007 From: notting at redhat.com (Bill Nottingham) Date: Thu, 4 Jan 2007 21:46:24 -0500 Subject: Fedora 7 In-Reply-To: <1167949988.3836.88.camel@zod.rchland.ibm.com> References: <20070104195032.GE4693@nostromo.devel.redhat.com> <200701041653.40217.jkeating@redhat.com> <200701041723.10075.jkeating@redhat.com> <1167949988.3836.88.camel@zod.rchland.ibm.com> Message-ID: <20070105024624.GL10665@nostromo.devel.redhat.com> Josh Boyer (jwboyer at jdub.homelinux.org) said: > > You're right, I think those writing software for Fedora and doing integration > > work for Fedora are the ones who will decide what centric Fedora is, and to > > this point, that's all been gnome/gtk, python, etc... Do you see that > > changing drastically anytime soon? > > We don't know. We haven't worked out anything yet. For example, > merging the Core cabal and FESCo. To declare anything before more > groundwork is completed is fairly pointless. There is a large subset of the Fedora community that has already stepped up and is willing to do the work for a GNOME desktop spin. Ergo, it's getting done. I don't see how stating that is a problem. Bill From notting at redhat.com Fri Jan 5 02:54:37 2007 From: notting at redhat.com (Bill Nottingham) Date: Thu, 4 Jan 2007 21:54:37 -0500 Subject: Fedora 7 (TeTeX) In-Reply-To: <459D6DDB.6050102@fedoraproject.org> References: <20070104195032.GE4693@nostromo.devel.redhat.com> <459D6E03.5030702@di.uminho.pt> <459D6DDB.6050102@fedoraproject.org> Message-ID: <20070105025437.GM10665@nostromo.devel.redhat.com> Rahul Sundaram (sundaram at fedoraproject.org) said: > Jose Pedro Oliveira wrote: > >Bill Nottingham wrote: > >>And, what would a release be without features. We've identified > >>28 features that we'd like to include in the release, available > >>at http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Releases/7/: > > > >Don't forget that TeTeX needs to be replaced (see #215497). > > ... and we need to decide on whether we need to use cdrkit or stay > with the current version of cdrecord in Fedora. Let me know if a RFE is > required. What needs to happen is that someone needs to Step Up and claim repsonsibility for these things with a plan for fixing them (on fedora-devel-list, and then on the wiki). I'm perfectly willing to add features to the list, but we need people who are going to be accountable for them. Bill From notting at redhat.com Fri Jan 5 02:57:32 2007 From: notting at redhat.com (Bill Nottingham) Date: Thu, 4 Jan 2007 21:57:32 -0500 Subject: Fedora 7 In-Reply-To: <20070104225630.GC2578@free.fr> References: <20070104195032.GE4693@nostromo.devel.redhat.com> <20070104225630.GC2578@free.fr> Message-ID: <20070105025732.GN10665@nostromo.devel.redhat.com> Patrice Dumas (pertusus at free.fr) said: > Also, maybe it could be worth considering allowing to use fcron > instead of anacron+cron. IIRC, fcron natively supports SELinux. Maybe get the Extras fcron maintainer (aportal at univ-montp2.fr) and the Core vixie-cron/anacron maintainer (mmaslano at redhat.com) together and see what would need to be done to migrate and see what the benefits would be? Bill From katzj at redhat.com Fri Jan 5 02:59:00 2007 From: katzj at redhat.com (Jeremy Katz) Date: Thu, 04 Jan 2007 21:59:00 -0500 Subject: Fedora 7 In-Reply-To: References: <20070104195032.GE4693@nostromo.devel.redhat.com> Message-ID: <1167965940.10344.55.camel@aglarond.local> On Fri, 2007-01-05 at 00:25 +0100, Gianluca Sforna wrote: > On 1/4/07, Bill Nottingham wrote: > > And, what would a release be without features. We've identified > > 28 features that we'd like to include in the release, available > > at http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Releases/7/Features: > > > > Nothing about anaconda? > In particular, the partitioning phase is (more or less) the same since > FC1 and not having something in place to resize an existing (most > likely ntfs) partition is a big drawback when compared to other > distros. Handling resize nicely is going to require a bit of rethinking and reworking of the entire partitioning interface (not to mention the backend code). Given resource constraints, there's just not really a good way to get to something that's feature complete without losing big pieces in time for the feature freeze at test2. It's definitely something on the bigger picture roadmap for anaconda, but this just isn't going to be the release where it's reasonable for it to happen. Jeremy From notting at redhat.com Fri Jan 5 02:59:55 2007 From: notting at redhat.com (Bill Nottingham) Date: Thu, 4 Jan 2007 21:59:55 -0500 Subject: Fedora 7 In-Reply-To: <1167962701.3290.28.camel@mteixeira.homelinux.net> References: <20070104195032.GE4693@nostromo.devel.redhat.com> <1167962701.3290.28.camel@mteixeira.homelinux.net> Message-ID: <20070105025955.GO10665@nostromo.devel.redhat.com> Mauricio Teixeira (netmask) (netmask at webset.net) said: > #1 - Having some *very* easy way to switch between NetworkManager and > regular 'ifup'. I know SUSE has something similar: you just go into > their network configuration tool and select a radio box (Use NM / Use > ifup). It would be cool for laptop users that roam a lot (like me). If > there is nobody available to work on that, I would be glad to if you > point me the directions on whom should I coordinate with. I'm not sure this is the right answer - it's certainly the wrong question to be asking the user in general. For the cases that NM hits now, we'd want to fix any cases that would cause people to want to switch to ifup, at least. Bill From katzj at redhat.com Fri Jan 5 03:01:16 2007 From: katzj at redhat.com (Jeremy Katz) Date: Thu, 04 Jan 2007 22:01:16 -0500 Subject: Fedora 7 In-Reply-To: <459DB5DE.2050501@andrei.myip.org> References: <20070104195032.GE4693@nostromo.devel.redhat.com> <459DAE83.2030506@andrei.myip.org> <604aa7910701041802s74d931a6we0e147a05e39166f@mail.gmail.com> <459DB5DE.2050501@andrei.myip.org> Message-ID: <1167966076.10344.59.camel@aglarond.local> On Thu, 2007-01-04 at 18:20 -0800, Florin Andrei wrote: > Jeff Spaleta wrote: > > If you do not want to wait for a sponsor I will take lead > > maintainership of the package and work with you through the review > > process. You can be co-maintainer and get and file bugreports and can > > send any potential cvs commits to me for me to process via bugzilla. > > Sounds good to me. > > > This will get it into extras asap, but does not address the question > > of release engineering such an item into publishable install targets. > > Well, at least it's there so people can play with it and try and see > just how far it can go. This would be awesome. I know that I want to look at it some and this will save me some up-front effort ;) Jeremy From bojan at rexursive.com Fri Jan 5 03:01:40 2007 From: bojan at rexursive.com (Bojan Smojver) Date: Fri, 5 Jan 2007 03:01:40 +0000 (UTC) Subject: Fedora 7 References: <20070104195032.GE4693@nostromo.devel.redhat.com> Message-ID: Bill Nottingham redhat.com> writes: > - Add KVM virtualization support to our tools Does this mean that Xen is gone? PS. Don't want to start a panic, just asking ;-) -- Bojan From katzj at redhat.com Fri Jan 5 03:06:04 2007 From: katzj at redhat.com (Jeremy Katz) Date: Thu, 04 Jan 2007 22:06:04 -0500 Subject: Fedora 7 In-Reply-To: <1167963849.2172.91.camel@dragon.valuecommerce.ne.jp> References: <20070104195032.GE4693@nostromo.devel.redhat.com> <1167963849.2172.91.camel@dragon.valuecommerce.ne.jp> Message-ID: <1167966364.10344.65.camel@aglarond.local> On Fri, 2007-01-05 at 11:24 +0900, Naoki wrote: > This is going to sound really stupid but what the heck; The nice thing > about the "core" and "extras" differentiation was you knew what was > "core" and what was "extra". > > Without this distinction how does average Joe know that compiz is > preferred over beryl, or that xmms is the option to Rhythmbox not the > other way around? Just the definition inside comps.xml or something > more complex? How does Joe user know this now? They're just using the graphical tools which (intentionally) don't show this. It's definitely an area that could deal with improvement, but differentiation based on repo isn't really the answer. There's a real opportunity to explore some new ways of showing the defaults[1] Jeremy [1] as well as other "interesting" information that isn't contained in the package itself, think reviews, screenshots, etc) From katzj at redhat.com Fri Jan 5 03:08:02 2007 From: katzj at redhat.com (Jeremy Katz) Date: Thu, 04 Jan 2007 22:08:02 -0500 Subject: Fedora 7 In-Reply-To: References: <20070104195032.GE4693@nostromo.devel.redhat.com> Message-ID: <1167966482.10344.68.camel@aglarond.local> On Fri, 2007-01-05 at 03:01 +0000, Bojan Smojver wrote: > Bill Nottingham redhat.com> writes: > > - Add KVM virtualization support to our tools > > Does this mean that Xen is gone? No; there's no reason the tools can't support multiple types of virtualization. That's why libvirt was started in the first place Jeremy From katzj at redhat.com Fri Jan 5 03:08:33 2007 From: katzj at redhat.com (Jeremy Katz) Date: Thu, 04 Jan 2007 22:08:33 -0500 Subject: Fedora 7 In-Reply-To: <459DAB8B.4060400@andrei.myip.org> References: <20070104195032.GE4693@nostromo.devel.redhat.com> <459DAB8B.4060400@andrei.myip.org> Message-ID: <1167966513.10344.70.camel@aglarond.local> On Thu, 2007-01-04 at 17:36 -0800, Florin Andrei wrote: > So if y'all could add a Live CD to the Fedora Test releases, that would > be awesome. It won't test the installer or the disk storage, but it will > be able to test pretty much everything else. That's the plan. http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/FedoraLiveCD Jeremy From bojan at rexursive.com Fri Jan 5 03:13:13 2007 From: bojan at rexursive.com (Bojan Smojver) Date: Fri, 5 Jan 2007 03:13:13 +0000 (UTC) Subject: Fedora 7 References: <20070104195032.GE4693@nostromo.devel.redhat.com> <1167966482.10344.68.camel@aglarond.local> Message-ID: Jeremy Katz redhat.com> writes: > No; there's no reason the tools can't support multiple types of > virtualization. That's why libvirt was started in the first place Thanks. -- Bojan From yanmin_zhang at linux.intel.com Fri Jan 5 03:15:55 2007 From: yanmin_zhang at linux.intel.com (Zhang, Yanmin) Date: Fri, 05 Jan 2007 11:15:55 +0800 Subject: Failed to buildup new images on ia64 Message-ID: <1167966955.15989.202.camel@ymzhang> I installed Fedora Core 6 on my ia64 machine. Then, after getting the new rpms from the latest ia64 development tree, I tried to buildup new iso images by pungi. The buildup failed. Pls. see below log. The new development tree uses python 2.5, but my distribution on machine installs python 2.4. If I replace it with 2.5, lots of other tools will be erased. The iso buildup also needs python 2.5 and the latest anaconda and yum. In the other hand, it looks like only with the new iso image, I could install python 2.5. Is it a chicken-egg issue? Is there any walkaround to install the latest python 2.5/anaconda/yum? Yanmin *************************************************pungi log******************************* Downloading eclipse-pde-3.2.1-23.fc7.ia64.rpm Running buildinstall... /mnt/tmp2/soft/work_pungi/pungi/7.01/ia64/os/buildinstall.tree.8438 /mnt/tmp2/soft/work_pungi rpm2cpio: /mnt/tmp2/soft/work_pungi/pungi/7.01/ia64/os/Fedora/anaconda-runtime-[0-9]*: No such file or directory cpio: premature end of archive /mnt/tmp2/soft/work_pungi cp: cannot stat `/mnt/tmp2/soft/work_pungi/pungi/7.01/ia64/os/buildinstall.tree.8438/usr/lib/anaconda-runtime/./upd-instroot*': No such file or directory cp: cannot stat `/mnt/tmp2/soft/work_pungi/pungi/7.01/ia64/os/buildinstall.tree.8438/usr/lib/anaconda-runtime/./mk-images*': No such file or directory cp: cannot stat `/mnt/tmp2/soft/work_pungi/pungi/7.01/ia64/os/buildinstall.tree.8438/usr/lib/anaconda-runtime/./makestamp.py*': No such file or directory cp: cannot stat `/mnt/tmp2/soft/work_pungi/pungi/7.01/ia64/os/buildinstall.tree.8438/usr/lib/anaconda-runtime/./buildinstall*': No such file or directory Building images... /usr/lib/anaconda-runtime/buildinstall: line 134: /mnt/tmp2/soft/work_pungi/pungi/7.01/ia64/os/buildinstall.tree.8438/upd-instroot: No such file or directory Creating repository metadata... Making images... /usr/lib/anaconda-runtime/buildinstall: line 146: /mnt/tmp2/soft/work_pungi/pungi/7.01/ia64/os/buildinstall.tree.8438/mk-images: No such file or directory Writing .discinfo file /usr/lib/anaconda-runtime/buildinstall: line 149: /mnt/tmp2/soft/work_pungi/pungi/7.01/ia64/os/buildinstall.tree.8438/makestamp.py: No such file or directory /mnt/tmp2/soft/work_pungi/pungi/work/ia64/docs /mnt/tmp2/soft/work_pungi 126 blocks /mnt/tmp2/soft/work_pungi /mnt/tmp2/soft/work_pungi/pungi/work/ia64/docs /mnt/tmp2/soft/work_pungi 4766 blocks /mnt/tmp2/soft/work_pungi Copying release note file RPM-GPG-KEY Copying release note file RPM-GPG-KEY-beta Copying release note file RPM-GPG-KEY-fedora Copying release note file RPM-GPG-KEY-fedora-extras Copying release note file RPM-GPG-KEY-fedora-legacy Copying release note file RPM-GPG-KEY-fedora-rawhide Copying release note file RPM-GPG-KEY-fedora-test Copying release note file RPM-GPG-KEY-rawhide Copying release note file GPL Copying release note file eula.txt Copying release note file README-BURNING-ISOS-en_US.txt Copying release note file RELEASE-NOTES-en_US.html Copying release note file fedora.css Copying release note dir stylesheet-images Traceback (most recent call last): File "/usr/bin/pungi", line 164, in ? main() File "/usr/bin/pungi", line 100, in main mypungi.doSplittree() File "/usr/lib/python2.4/site-packages/pypungi/pungi.py", line 108, in doSplittree output = timber.main() File "/usr/lib/python2.4/site-packages/pypungi/splittree.py", line 393, in main self.createSplitDirs() File "/usr/lib/python2.4/site-packages/pypungi/splittree.py", line 236, in createSplitDirs self.createDiscInfo(i) File "/usr/lib/python2.4/site-packages/pypungi/splittree.py", line 141, in createDiscInfo raise RuntimeError, "CRITICAL ERROR : .discinfo doesn't exist in the unified tree, not splitting" RuntimeError: CRITICAL ERROR : .discinfo doesn't exist in the unified tree, not splitting From dennis at ausil.us Fri Jan 5 03:18:00 2007 From: dennis at ausil.us (Dennis Gilmore) Date: Thu, 4 Jan 2007 21:18:00 -0600 Subject: Fedora 7 In-Reply-To: <20070105025955.GO10665@nostromo.devel.redhat.com> References: <20070104195032.GE4693@nostromo.devel.redhat.com> <1167962701.3290.28.camel@mteixeira.homelinux.net> <20070105025955.GO10665@nostromo.devel.redhat.com> Message-ID: <200701042118.01260.dennis@ausil.us> On Thursday 04 January 2007 8:59 pm, Bill Nottingham wrote: > Mauricio Teixeira (netmask) (netmask at webset.net) said: > > #1 - Having some *very* easy way to switch between NetworkManager and > > regular 'ifup'. I know SUSE has something similar: you just go into > > their network configuration tool and select a radio box (Use NM / Use > > ifup). It would be cool for laptop users that roam a lot (like me). If > > there is nobody available to work on that, I would be glad to if you > > point me the directions on whom should I coordinate with. > > I'm not sure this is the right answer - it's certainly the wrong > question to be asking the user in general. For the cases that NM hits > now, we'd want to fix any cases that would cause people to want to switch > to ifup, at least. I think the right Answer is to make NM cover all cases. where you don't need to go to other tools. I use entirely NM. but i could see instances where i need to choose between multiple static wired configs that NM may not be the easiest tool to use. -- Dennis Gilmore, RHCE Proud Australian From notting at redhat.com Fri Jan 5 03:16:49 2007 From: notting at redhat.com (Bill Nottingham) Date: Thu, 4 Jan 2007 22:16:49 -0500 Subject: Fedora 7 In-Reply-To: References: <20070104195032.GE4693@nostromo.devel.redhat.com> <200701041613.50625.jkeating@redhat.com> <459D702A.8050705@fedoraproject.org> <200701041653.40217.jkeating@redhat.com> Message-ID: <20070105031649.GP10665@nostromo.devel.redhat.com> Jason L Tibbitts III (tibbs at math.uh.edu) said: > JK> Its no mystery that Fedora is a Gnome centric distribution, and it > JK> should be no surprise that the Fedora Desktop spin is Gnome based. > > Umm, isn't the Fedora supposed to become the community's distribution, > and so isn't it up to the community to decide whether Fedora is > "anything"-centric? > > I could care less about naming either way, but declaring up-front that > regardless of what the community does or wants, Fedora is still going > to favor any specific technology seems counterproductive in this new > spirit of complete community involvement. Well, it may be presumptive to speak for 'Fedora-the-project', however, there seems to be an underlying assumption in this mail, that there is: Red Hat | Community If that's not intended to be there, I'm sorry - that's just the impression I got. Rather, I believe there is a large Fedora community that includes many people from Red Hat. In this community, right now, there is a large developer community that is interested in working on GNOME - it's not being deceptive to say that at the moment, it's larger than the community currently working on KDE, XFCE, E, or whatever. That GNOME community has stated that they want a desktop spin of Fedora that includes GNOME, and has stepped up to do it. So it's on the feature list. I'm not going to lie to you - Red Hat has significant interests that are going to drive the resources we assign to Fedora, as Fedora is the upstream of RHEL; the fact that Red Hat has these interests and allocates resources this way isn't going to change. What we're trying to change is make it easy for Fedora to be used for *even more than RHEL*, whether it be Yellow Dog, or OLPC, or whatever. Not to talk about 'the other guys', but much in the way that there is Ubuntu and Kubuntu. Bill From notting at redhat.com Fri Jan 5 03:17:53 2007 From: notting at redhat.com (Bill Nottingham) Date: Thu, 4 Jan 2007 22:17:53 -0500 Subject: Fedora 7 In-Reply-To: References: <20070104195032.GE4693@nostromo.devel.redhat.com> <1167966482.10344.68.camel@aglarond.local> Message-ID: <20070105031753.GQ10665@nostromo.devel.redhat.com> Bojan Smojver (bojan at rexursive.com) said: > > No; there's no reason the tools can't support multiple types of > > virtualization. That's why libvirt was started in the first place > > Thanks. That being said, if Xen can't be beaten into shape to reasonably follow upstream kernels, or get upstream itself.... Bill From davej at redhat.com Fri Jan 5 03:21:57 2007 From: davej at redhat.com (Dave Jones) Date: Thu, 4 Jan 2007 22:21:57 -0500 Subject: Fedora 7 In-Reply-To: <200701042118.01260.dennis@ausil.us> References: <20070104195032.GE4693@nostromo.devel.redhat.com> <1167962701.3290.28.camel@mteixeira.homelinux.net> <20070105025955.GO10665@nostromo.devel.redhat.com> <200701042118.01260.dennis@ausil.us> Message-ID: <20070105032157.GF23019@redhat.com> On Thu, Jan 04, 2007 at 09:18:00PM -0600, Dennis Gilmore wrote: > > I'm not sure this is the right answer - it's certainly the wrong > > question to be asking the user in general. For the cases that NM hits > > now, we'd want to fix any cases that would cause people to want to switch > > to ifup, at least. > I think the right Answer is to make NM cover all cases. The biggest hurdle afaics, is that NM treats a network connection as a per-user thing rather than a system wide thing. Having to log in before you can use the network is busted. Dave -- http://www.codemonkey.org.uk From dennis at ausil.us Fri Jan 5 03:24:00 2007 From: dennis at ausil.us (Dennis Gilmore) Date: Thu, 4 Jan 2007 21:24:00 -0600 Subject: Fedora 7 In-Reply-To: <200701042118.01260.dennis@ausil.us> References: <20070104195032.GE4693@nostromo.devel.redhat.com> <20070105025955.GO10665@nostromo.devel.redhat.com> <200701042118.01260.dennis@ausil.us> Message-ID: <200701042124.05888.dennis@ausil.us> On Thursday 04 January 2007 9:18 pm, Dennis Gilmore wrote: > I think the right Answer is to make NM cover all cases. where you don't > need to go to other tools. I use entirely NM. but i could see instances > where i need to choose between multiple static wired configs that NM may > not be the easiest tool to use. I should add i use NM on laptops only. servers and desktops I dont use it. -- Dennis Gilmore, RHCE Proud Australian -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 189 bytes Desc: not available URL: From jkeating at redhat.com Fri Jan 5 03:23:31 2007 From: jkeating at redhat.com (Jesse Keating) Date: Thu, 4 Jan 2007 22:23:31 -0500 Subject: Failed to buildup new images on ia64 In-Reply-To: <1167966955.15989.202.camel@ymzhang> References: <1167966955.15989.202.camel@ymzhang> Message-ID: <200701042223.35885.jkeating@redhat.com> On Thursday 04 January 2007 22:15, Zhang, Yanmin wrote: > I installed Fedora Core 6 on my ia64 machine. Then, after getting the new > rpms from the latest ia64 development tree, I tried to buildup new iso > images by pungi. The buildup failed. Pls. see below log. > > The new development tree uses python 2.5, but my distribution on machine > installs python 2.4. If I replace it with 2.5, lots of other tools will be > erased. The iso buildup also needs python 2.5 and the latest anaconda and > yum. In the other hand, it looks like only with the new iso image, I could > install python 2.5. Is it a chicken-egg issue? Is there any walkaround to > install the latest python 2.5/anaconda/yum? You may need to create a chroot that is populated with the rawhide packages in order to run pungi there. I haven't done much pungi work on rawhide lately so I can't say of it is supposed to work or not. I was about to create the FC-6 branch of pungi and continue development in tip for rawhide/F7. -- Jesse Keating Release Engineer: Fedora -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 189 bytes Desc: not available URL: From dennis at ausil.us Fri Jan 5 03:25:45 2007 From: dennis at ausil.us (Dennis Gilmore) Date: Thu, 4 Jan 2007 21:25:45 -0600 Subject: Fedora 7 In-Reply-To: <20070105032157.GF23019@redhat.com> References: <20070104195032.GE4693@nostromo.devel.redhat.com> <200701042118.01260.dennis@ausil.us> <20070105032157.GF23019@redhat.com> Message-ID: <200701042125.50593.dennis@ausil.us> On Thursday 04 January 2007 9:21 pm, Dave Jones wrote: > On Thu, Jan 04, 2007 at 09:18:00PM -0600, Dennis Gilmore wrote: > > > I'm not sure this is the right answer - it's certainly the wrong > > > question to be asking the user in general. For the cases that NM hits > > > now, we'd want to fix any cases that would cause people to want to > > > switch to ifup, at least. > > > > I think the right Answer is to make NM cover all cases. > > The biggest hurdle afaics, is that NM treats a network connection > as a per-user thing rather than a system wide thing. > Having to log in before you can use the network is busted. according to the TODO list for 0.7 working before you log in is one of the goals. Which will help when using network authentication. -- Dennis Gilmore, RHCE Proud Australian -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 189 bytes Desc: not available URL: From mmcgrath at fedoraproject.org Fri Jan 5 03:32:28 2007 From: mmcgrath at fedoraproject.org (Mike McGrath) Date: Thu, 4 Jan 2007 21:32:28 -0600 Subject: Fedora 7 In-Reply-To: <1167960564.3290.12.camel@mteixeira.homelinux.net> References: <20070104195032.GE4693@nostromo.devel.redhat.com> <200701041613.50625.jkeating@redhat.com> <20070104212011.GL28367@plain.rackshack.net> <200701041648.41161.jkeating@redhat.com> <1167960564.3290.12.camel@mteixeira.homelinux.net> Message-ID: <3237e4410701041932k3638db31l88f15ebb4f84914d@mail.gmail.com> On 1/4/07, Mauricio Teixeira (netmask) wrote: > Em Qui, 2007-01-04 ?s 16:56 -0500, Fabio Comolli escreveu: > You just need to remember that in some countries (like Brazil, for > instance) it's really difficult (almost impossible) to find 8GB medias > (and if you find, they are *very* expensive). So if the distro vendor > doesn't provide it, you would be excluding a lot of users. Honestly I think proper documentation or a script on how to build a DVD would be more than sufficient. -Mike From a.badger at gmail.com Fri Jan 5 03:34:29 2007 From: a.badger at gmail.com (Toshio Kuratomi) Date: Thu, 04 Jan 2007 19:34:29 -0800 Subject: rawhide report: 20070104 changes In-Reply-To: <1167961443.2795.16.camel@dawkins> References: <200701042008.l04K8Ron030833@hs20-bc2-6.build.redhat.com> <1167961443.2795.16.camel@dawkins> Message-ID: <1167968069.23361.131.camel@localhost.localdomain> On Fri, 2007-01-05 at 02:44 +0100, David Nielsen wrote: > tor, 04 01 2007 kl. 15:08 -0500, skrev buildsys at redhat.com: > > > > > evolution-sharp-0.12.1-1.fc7 > > ---------------------------- > > * Wed Jan 03 2007 Matthew Barnes - 0.12.1-1.fc7 > > - Mono files now live in /usr/lib rather than /usr/lib. > > One wonders, then one checks CVS for the actual commit message. > > /usr/lib(64) -> /usr/lib - isn't this bound to be unsafe for 64bit > systems? It's the wrong thing to do since FC6. We moved the mono gac into %{_libdir} instead of hardcoding /usr/lib on all platforms for FC6. This means that the evolution-sharp files are currently floating off in the middle of nowhere on x86_64. Bug filed: https://bugzilla.redhat.com/bugzilla/show_bug.cgi?id=221555 -Toshio -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: signature.asc Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 189 bytes Desc: This is a digitally signed message part URL: From jspaleta at gmail.com Fri Jan 5 03:39:17 2007 From: jspaleta at gmail.com (Jeff Spaleta) Date: Thu, 4 Jan 2007 18:39:17 -0900 Subject: Fedora 7 In-Reply-To: <1167966364.10344.65.camel@aglarond.local> References: <20070104195032.GE4693@nostromo.devel.redhat.com> <1167963849.2172.91.camel@dragon.valuecommerce.ne.jp> <1167966364.10344.65.camel@aglarond.local> Message-ID: <604aa7910701041939u18e3beacvf5bd236c69898889@mail.gmail.com> On 1/4/07, Jeremy Katz wrote: > There's a real opportunity to explore some new ways > of showing the defaults[1] The definition of a "default" gets really really murky, if we are opening up installer image space and allowing the opportunity for community to step-in and attempt to maintain alternative installer target images. What's default in the Gnome-centric desktop installer target and what is default in my garunteed to be hugely popular Emacs as desktop interface installer target or to a niche installer target like a KDE desktop.... will be totally different. -jef"replace Emacs with vi, as needed"spaleta From jkeating at redhat.com Fri Jan 5 04:02:28 2007 From: jkeating at redhat.com (Jesse Keating) Date: Thu, 4 Jan 2007 23:02:28 -0500 Subject: Fedora 7 In-Reply-To: <604aa7910701041802s74d931a6we0e147a05e39166f@mail.gmail.com> References: <20070104195032.GE4693@nostromo.devel.redhat.com> <459DAE83.2030506@andrei.myip.org> <604aa7910701041802s74d931a6we0e147a05e39166f@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <200701042302.28629.jkeating@redhat.com> On Thursday 04 January 2007 21:02, Jeff Spaleta wrote: > but does not address the question > of release engineering such an item into publishable install targets. Show that the software works and is desireable to have in say Desktop or Server spins, and we'll make it happen. -- Jesse Keating Release Engineer: Fedora -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 189 bytes Desc: not available URL: From jspaleta at gmail.com Fri Jan 5 04:18:18 2007 From: jspaleta at gmail.com (Jeff Spaleta) Date: Thu, 4 Jan 2007 19:18:18 -0900 Subject: Fedora 7 In-Reply-To: <200701042302.28629.jkeating@redhat.com> References: <20070104195032.GE4693@nostromo.devel.redhat.com> <459DAE83.2030506@andrei.myip.org> <604aa7910701041802s74d931a6we0e147a05e39166f@mail.gmail.com> <200701042302.28629.jkeating@redhat.com> Message-ID: <604aa7910701042018p73a86cdend89bb01ecfbb9f9a@mail.gmail.com> On 1/4/07, Jesse Keating wrote: > Show that the software works and is desireable to have in say Desktop or > Server spins, and we'll make it happen. I doubt that those two bins will be big enough to fill the space of interest 2 years out. Does a completely open source version of k12ltsp fit in either bin? Does a professional open source audio studio operating system fit in either bin? Does a home media center-centric open operating system fit into either bin? Does an open source orbiting deathray operating system fit into either bin? -jef From cmadams at hiwaay.net Fri Jan 5 04:18:54 2007 From: cmadams at hiwaay.net (Chris Adams) Date: Thu, 4 Jan 2007 22:18:54 -0600 Subject: Fedora 7 In-Reply-To: <20070104195032.GE4693@nostromo.devel.redhat.com> References: <20070104195032.GE4693@nostromo.devel.redhat.com> Message-ID: <20070105041854.GB1497486@hiwaay.net> Once upon a time, Bill Nottingham said: > Starting with Fedora 7, there is no more Core, and no more Extras; > there is only Fedora. One single repository, built in the community > on open source tools, assembled into whatever spins the Fedora community > desires. How will this be distributed? Will ISOs still be available that cover the whole repository? Right now, Core has release targets (and then updates), while Extras is a rolling target. Lots of users (and potential users) don't have high speed or even reliable Internet access; they need everything they install to be on physical media. I've said this before because of previous experiences trying to help a friend with only modem access, but now I'm mailing DVDs to another friend stationed in Iraq. Having a "GNOME DVD" and a "KDE DVD" and a "Server DVD" doesn't really help, since I can't anticipate what he'll want (and all three DVDs would have a bunch in common, wasting space). -- Chris Adams Systems and Network Administrator - HiWAAY Internet Services I don't speak for anybody but myself - that's enough trouble. From michael.wiktowy at gmail.com Fri Jan 5 04:28:56 2007 From: michael.wiktowy at gmail.com (Michael Wiktowy) Date: Thu, 4 Jan 2007 23:28:56 -0500 Subject: Fedora 7 In-Reply-To: <459D702A.8050705@fedoraproject.org> References: <20070104195032.GE4693@nostromo.devel.redhat.com> <200701041613.50625.jkeating@redhat.com> <459D702A.8050705@fedoraproject.org> Message-ID: <3e4ec4600701042028h36985ef2r1ca5491a34df7c2b@mail.gmail.com> On 1/4/07, Rahul Sundaram wrote: > Jesse Keating wrote: > > > Yes, Fedora Desktop and Fedora Server will probably be the official Fedora > > Project spins of Fedora. Fedora KDE is the proof of concept, perhaps widely > > used "community contributed" spin of Fedora. That's why (IMHO) its named > > specifically with "KDE" whereas the official spin is just "Desktop". If you > > don't know what "KDE" or "GNOME" is, you wouldn't know to choose it. Desktop > > is a good generic name that is understandable. However if you already know > > and prefer KDE, you know to get the KDE spin. > > It would be consistent to have something like > > Fedora Desktop (GNOME edition) and > Fedora Desktop (KDE edition) > > It's confusing and discriminatory to call one of the spins as the > desktop when you have more (which is likely to increase) than one > desktop oriented spins. I don't think it is descriminatory at all. Actually, what would be consistent would be for the Gnome community to name something "This does Foo" that has functionality Foo and the KDE community to name something "KBar" that has the functionality Bar (and I have a whole bunch of KStuff in my Gnome menu to prove it). Jesse's original suggestion is more inline with that since KFedora is a bit unweildy. KDE folk seem to like their brand stuck on every piece of software made for that desktop. Gnome folk tend not to go that route and name their apps random obscure words and put localized descriptions in the menus. To each their own. /Mike From jkeating at redhat.com Fri Jan 5 04:28:57 2007 From: jkeating at redhat.com (Jesse Keating) Date: Thu, 4 Jan 2007 23:28:57 -0500 Subject: Fedora 7 In-Reply-To: <604aa7910701042018p73a86cdend89bb01ecfbb9f9a@mail.gmail.com> References: <20070104195032.GE4693@nostromo.devel.redhat.com> <200701042302.28629.jkeating@redhat.com> <604aa7910701042018p73a86cdend89bb01ecfbb9f9a@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <200701042328.57847.jkeating@redhat.com> On Thursday 04 January 2007 23:18, Jeff Spaleta wrote: > I doubt that those two bins will be big enough to fill the space of > interest 2 years out. ?Does a completely open source version of > k12ltsp fit in either bin? ?Does a professional open source audio > studio operating system fit in either bin? Does a home media > center-centric open operating system fit into either bin? Does an open > source orbiting deathray operating system fit into either bin? Sure, farther down the road there might be other targets. For F7, we're focusing on Desktop and Server, and a KDE. -- Jesse Keating Release Engineer: Fedora -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 189 bytes Desc: not available URL: From jkeating at redhat.com Fri Jan 5 04:30:16 2007 From: jkeating at redhat.com (Jesse Keating) Date: Thu, 4 Jan 2007 23:30:16 -0500 Subject: Fedora 7 In-Reply-To: <20070105041854.GB1497486@hiwaay.net> References: <20070104195032.GE4693@nostromo.devel.redhat.com> <20070105041854.GB1497486@hiwaay.net> Message-ID: <200701042330.17121.jkeating@redhat.com> On Thursday 04 January 2007 23:18, Chris Adams wrote: > I've said this before because of previous experiences trying to help a > friend with only modem access, but now I'm mailing DVDs to another > friend stationed in Iraq. ?Having a "GNOME DVD" and a "KDE DVD" and a > "Server DVD" doesn't really help, since I can't anticipate what he'll > want (and all three DVDs would have a bunch in common, wasting space). A "kitchen-sink" DVD set may be possible, but I don't expect it to be hosted by our mirror system. Perhaps bittorrent only or an easy script to generate one yourself. -- Jesse Keating Release Engineer: Fedora -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 189 bytes Desc: not available URL: From mattdm at mattdm.org Fri Jan 5 04:34:06 2007 From: mattdm at mattdm.org (Matthew Miller) Date: Thu, 4 Jan 2007 23:34:06 -0500 Subject: Fedora 7 In-Reply-To: <20070105041854.GB1497486@hiwaay.net> References: <20070104195032.GE4693@nostromo.devel.redhat.com> <20070105041854.GB1497486@hiwaay.net> Message-ID: <20070105043406.GA22934@jadzia.bu.edu> On Thu, Jan 04, 2007 at 10:18:54PM -0600, Chris Adams wrote: > How will this be distributed? Will ISOs still be available that cover > the whole repository? Right now, Core has release targets (and then There will be tools that make it easy to make ISOs that cover any subset of the whole repository -- including, if for some reason you need it, the entire thing. -- Matthew Miller mattdm at mattdm.org Boston University Linux ------> From michael.wiktowy at gmail.com Fri Jan 5 04:43:00 2007 From: michael.wiktowy at gmail.com (Michael Wiktowy) Date: Thu, 4 Jan 2007 23:43:00 -0500 Subject: Fedora XO? Message-ID: <3e4ec4600701042043g273eafdfm5831a8c48b521454@mail.gmail.com> Does anyone have any plans to package OLPC XO Desktop as an alternative desktop that users can run along side of Gnome, KDE or Xfce? Or is it so different that it wouldn't integrate well with the desktop manager/switcher and user homer directories? Just asking since I figured that it would be cool to check it out on my normal desktop system or maybe as an option for newly minted Fedoraites. /Mike From jwboyer at jdub.homelinux.org Fri Jan 5 04:42:59 2007 From: jwboyer at jdub.homelinux.org (Josh Boyer) Date: Thu, 04 Jan 2007 22:42:59 -0600 Subject: Fedora 7 In-Reply-To: <200701042125.50593.dennis@ausil.us> References: <20070104195032.GE4693@nostromo.devel.redhat.com> <200701042118.01260.dennis@ausil.us> <20070105032157.GF23019@redhat.com> <200701042125.50593.dennis@ausil.us> Message-ID: <1167972179.3159.16.camel@vader.jdub.homelinux.org> On Thu, 2007-01-04 at 21:25 -0600, Dennis Gilmore wrote: > On Thursday 04 January 2007 9:21 pm, Dave Jones wrote: > > On Thu, Jan 04, 2007 at 09:18:00PM -0600, Dennis Gilmore wrote: > > > > I'm not sure this is the right answer - it's certainly the wrong > > > > question to be asking the user in general. For the cases that NM hits > > > > now, we'd want to fix any cases that would cause people to want to > > > > switch to ifup, at least. > > > > > > I think the right Answer is to make NM cover all cases. > > > > The biggest hurdle afaics, is that NM treats a network connection > > as a per-user thing rather than a system wide thing. > > Having to log in before you can use the network is busted. > according to the TODO list for 0.7 working before you log in is one of the > goals. Which will help when using network authentication. It would be nice if NM supported profiles too. Like "Home" and "Office" where it sets up /etc/hosts and /etc/resolv.conf to be what you'd want for the two different networks. Maybe that isn't one of the goals, but it'd make moving around a hell of a lot easier. josh From notting at redhat.com Fri Jan 5 04:42:27 2007 From: notting at redhat.com (Bill Nottingham) Date: Thu, 4 Jan 2007 23:42:27 -0500 Subject: Fedora 7 In-Reply-To: <1167972179.3159.16.camel@vader.jdub.homelinux.org> References: <20070104195032.GE4693@nostromo.devel.redhat.com> <200701042118.01260.dennis@ausil.us> <20070105032157.GF23019@redhat.com> <200701042125.50593.dennis@ausil.us> <1167972179.3159.16.camel@vader.jdub.homelinux.org> Message-ID: <20070105044227.GA13647@nostromo.devel.redhat.com> Josh Boyer (jwboyer at jdub.homelinux.org) said: > It would be nice if NM supported profiles too. Like "Home" and "Office" > where it sets up /etc/hosts and /etc/resolv.conf to be what you'd want > for the two different networks. Shouldn't resolve.conf be pulled from DNS? Bill From skvidal at linux.duke.edu Fri Jan 5 04:48:11 2007 From: skvidal at linux.duke.edu (seth vidal) Date: Thu, 04 Jan 2007 23:48:11 -0500 Subject: Fedora 7 In-Reply-To: <20070105044227.GA13647@nostromo.devel.redhat.com> References: <20070104195032.GE4693@nostromo.devel.redhat.com> <200701042118.01260.dennis@ausil.us> <20070105032157.GF23019@redhat.com> <200701042125.50593.dennis@ausil.us> <1167972179.3159.16.camel@vader.jdub.homelinux.org> <20070105044227.GA13647@nostromo.devel.redhat.com> Message-ID: <1167972491.11355.106.camel@cutter> On Thu, 2007-01-04 at 23:42 -0500, Bill Nottingham wrote: > Josh Boyer (jwboyer at jdub.homelinux.org) said: > > It would be nice if NM supported profiles too. Like "Home" and "Office" > > where it sets up /etc/hosts and /etc/resolv.conf to be what you'd want > > for the two different networks. > > Shouldn't resolve.conf be pulled from DNS? you mean dhcp, not dns. and overrides for both are common in most network configuration applications. -sv From jwboyer at jdub.homelinux.org Fri Jan 5 04:45:51 2007 From: jwboyer at jdub.homelinux.org (Josh Boyer) Date: Thu, 04 Jan 2007 22:45:51 -0600 Subject: Fedora 7 In-Reply-To: <1167963849.2172.91.camel@dragon.valuecommerce.ne.jp> References: <20070104195032.GE4693@nostromo.devel.redhat.com> <1167963849.2172.91.camel@dragon.valuecommerce.ne.jp> Message-ID: <1167972351.3159.20.camel@vader.jdub.homelinux.org> On Fri, 2007-01-05 at 11:24 +0900, Naoki wrote: > This is going to sound really stupid but what the heck; The nice thing > about the "core" and "extras" differentiation was you knew what was > "core" and what was "extra". > > Also, how will this help the creation of RHEL? If Fedora is to remain > the basis for RHEL will this not slightly confuse things? Why is this a concern for Fedora? It's not. It's something Red Hat will have to figure out. Though I doubt it will be very hard for them to do so. Besides, RHEL already contains a package set that spans today's Core and Extras. Exim is an example. It's in RHEL, and it's in Extras. Let the engineers at Red Hat decide what to put in RHEL. They seem to be doing a fine job already. josh From jkeating at redhat.com Fri Jan 5 04:45:28 2007 From: jkeating at redhat.com (Jesse Keating) Date: Thu, 4 Jan 2007 23:45:28 -0500 Subject: Fedora 7 In-Reply-To: <20070105044227.GA13647@nostromo.devel.redhat.com> References: <20070104195032.GE4693@nostromo.devel.redhat.com> <1167972179.3159.16.camel@vader.jdub.homelinux.org> <20070105044227.GA13647@nostromo.devel.redhat.com> Message-ID: <200701042345.28414.jkeating@redhat.com> On Thursday 04 January 2007 23:42, Bill Nottingham wrote: > Shouldn't resolve.conf be pulled from DNS? Can DNS tell you multiple domains to search yet? And not all work places have sane IS departments that use things like DHCP... -- Jesse Keating Release Engineer: Fedora -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 189 bytes Desc: not available URL: From notting at redhat.com Fri Jan 5 04:47:18 2007 From: notting at redhat.com (Bill Nottingham) Date: Thu, 4 Jan 2007 23:47:18 -0500 Subject: Fedora 7 In-Reply-To: <1167972351.3159.20.camel@vader.jdub.homelinux.org> References: <20070104195032.GE4693@nostromo.devel.redhat.com> <1167963849.2172.91.camel@dragon.valuecommerce.ne.jp> <1167972351.3159.20.camel@vader.jdub.homelinux.org> Message-ID: <20070105044718.GA13720@nostromo.devel.redhat.com> Josh Boyer (jwboyer at jdub.homelinux.org) said: > > Also, how will this help the creation of RHEL? If Fedora is to remain > > the basis for RHEL will this not slightly confuse things? > > Why is this a concern for Fedora? It's not. It's something Red Hat > will have to figure out. Though I doubt it will be very hard for them > to do so. Right. > Besides, RHEL already contains a package set that spans today's Core and > Extras. Exim is an example. It's in RHEL, and it's in Extras. Let the > engineers at Red Hat decide what to put in RHEL. They seem to be doing > a fine job already. I'm sure someone will be willing to argue with you on that. :) Bill From jwboyer at jdub.homelinux.org Fri Jan 5 04:51:55 2007 From: jwboyer at jdub.homelinux.org (Josh Boyer) Date: Thu, 04 Jan 2007 22:51:55 -0600 Subject: Fedora 7 In-Reply-To: <20070105024624.GL10665@nostromo.devel.redhat.com> References: <20070104195032.GE4693@nostromo.devel.redhat.com> <200701041653.40217.jkeating@redhat.com> <200701041723.10075.jkeating@redhat.com> <1167949988.3836.88.camel@zod.rchland.ibm.com> <20070105024624.GL10665@nostromo.devel.redhat.com> Message-ID: <1167972715.3159.26.camel@vader.jdub.homelinux.org> On Thu, 2007-01-04 at 21:46 -0500, Bill Nottingham wrote: > Josh Boyer (jwboyer at jdub.homelinux.org) said: > > > You're right, I think those writing software for Fedora and doing integration > > > work for Fedora are the ones who will decide what centric Fedora is, and to > > > this point, that's all been gnome/gtk, python, etc... Do you see that > > > changing drastically anytime soon? > > > > We don't know. We haven't worked out anything yet. For example, > > merging the Core cabal and FESCo. To declare anything before more > > groundwork is completed is fairly pointless. > > There is a large subset of the Fedora community that has already > stepped up and is willing to do the work for a GNOME desktop spin. Ergo, > it's getting done. I don't see how stating that is a problem. Neither do I. This isn't about GNOME or KDE or WindowMaker or whatever. My comment was more about "those writing software for Fedora and doing integration work for Fedora are the ones who will decide what centric Fedora is.." I believe I took that a bit out of context and rather than spiraling into a very long flame-war and embarrassing myself, I'll just end it now. josh From jspaleta at gmail.com Fri Jan 5 04:54:38 2007 From: jspaleta at gmail.com (Jeff Spaleta) Date: Thu, 4 Jan 2007 19:54:38 -0900 Subject: Fedora XO? In-Reply-To: <3e4ec4600701042043g273eafdfm5831a8c48b521454@mail.gmail.com> References: <3e4ec4600701042043g273eafdfm5831a8c48b521454@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <604aa7910701042054i1f49e97ene729daaf4ef8bd96@mail.gmail.com> On 1/4/07, Michael Wiktowy wrote: > Does anyone have any plans to package OLPC XO Desktop as an > alternative desktop that users can run along side of Gnome, KDE or > Xfce? Or is it so different that it wouldn't integrate well with the > desktop manager/switcher and user homer directories? Just asking since > I figured that it would be cool to check it out on my normal desktop > system or maybe as an option for newly minted Fedoraites. Have you been using the available qemu images from olpc? -jef From jwboyer at jdub.homelinux.org Fri Jan 5 04:58:27 2007 From: jwboyer at jdub.homelinux.org (Josh Boyer) Date: Thu, 04 Jan 2007 22:58:27 -0600 Subject: Fedora 7 In-Reply-To: <20070105044227.GA13647@nostromo.devel.redhat.com> References: <20070104195032.GE4693@nostromo.devel.redhat.com> <200701042118.01260.dennis@ausil.us> <20070105032157.GF23019@redhat.com> <200701042125.50593.dennis@ausil.us> <1167972179.3159.16.camel@vader.jdub.homelinux.org> <20070105044227.GA13647@nostromo.devel.redhat.com> Message-ID: <1167973107.3159.32.camel@vader.jdub.homelinux.org> On Thu, 2007-01-04 at 23:42 -0500, Bill Nottingham wrote: > Josh Boyer (jwboyer at jdub.homelinux.org) said: > > It would be nice if NM supported profiles too. Like "Home" and "Office" > > where it sets up /etc/hosts and /etc/resolv.conf to be what you'd want > > for the two different networks. > > Shouldn't resolve.conf be pulled from DNS? DHCP, yes. However some companies, and personal home routers for that matter, totally suck in that regard. My router decides to assign itself as the primary DNS server and then routinely pukes after a few minutes of that. So I pre-pend something in /etc/dhclient-eth0.conf to work around that, but then my laptop sucks at work because it isn't using the site DNS servers. And at home, my router is doesn't actually resolve the machine names, so I add names to /etc/hosts. Which again breaks when I switch networks. It's very annoying. Having something like a "Home" profile that would switch to the right settings when selected vs. an "Office" or "External" profile would be highly welcome. josh From jkeating at redhat.com Fri Jan 5 05:04:23 2007 From: jkeating at redhat.com (Jesse Keating) Date: Fri, 5 Jan 2007 00:04:23 -0500 Subject: Fedora 7 In-Reply-To: <1167973107.3159.32.camel@vader.jdub.homelinux.org> References: <20070104195032.GE4693@nostromo.devel.redhat.com> <20070105044227.GA13647@nostromo.devel.redhat.com> <1167973107.3159.32.camel@vader.jdub.homelinux.org> Message-ID: <200701050004.23169.jkeating@redhat.com> On Thursday 04 January 2007 23:58, Josh Boyer wrote: > And at home, my router is doesn't actually resolve the machine names, so > I add names to /etc/hosts. ?Which again breaks when I switch networks. > It's very annoying. ?Having something like a "Home" profile that would > switch to the right settings when selected vs. an "Office" or "External" > profile would be highly welcome. I actually wrote an app that did this for me, before NM was created. It was a neat way to learn some pygtk/glade stuff. Of course, it only made sense to me so I never really let the code see the light of day. -- Jesse Keating Release Engineer: Fedora -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 189 bytes Desc: not available URL: From naoki at valuecommerce.com Fri Jan 5 05:07:33 2007 From: naoki at valuecommerce.com (Naoki) Date: Fri, 05 Jan 2007 14:07:33 +0900 Subject: Fedora 7 In-Reply-To: <1167966364.10344.65.camel@aglarond.local> References: <20070104195032.GE4693@nostromo.devel.redhat.com> <1167963849.2172.91.camel@dragon.valuecommerce.ne.jp> <1167966364.10344.65.camel@aglarond.local> Message-ID: <1167973653.2172.102.camel@dragon.valuecommerce.ne.jp> On Thu, 2007-01-04 at 22:06 -0500, Jeremy Katz wrote: > On Fri, 2007-01-05 at 11:24 +0900, Naoki wrote: > > This is going to sound really stupid but what the heck; The nice thing > > about the "core" and "extras" differentiation was you knew what was > > "core" and what was "extra". > > > > Without this distinction how does average Joe know that compiz is > > preferred over beryl, or that xmms is the option to Rhythmbox not the > > other way around? Just the definition inside comps.xml or something > > more complex? > > How does Joe user know this now? Good point, my idea of Joe user is obviously different the the "normal" My Joe user only ever uses the command line (servers). > They're just using the graphical tools > which (intentionally) don't show this. It's definitely an area that > could deal with improvement, but differentiation based on repo isn't > really the answer. There's a real opportunity to explore some new ways > of showing the defaults[1] Cool. From mattdm at mattdm.org Fri Jan 5 05:07:32 2007 From: mattdm at mattdm.org (Matthew Miller) Date: Fri, 5 Jan 2007 00:07:32 -0500 Subject: Fedora 7 In-Reply-To: <20070105044227.GA13647@nostromo.devel.redhat.com> References: <20070104195032.GE4693@nostromo.devel.redhat.com> <200701042118.01260.dennis@ausil.us> <20070105032157.GF23019@redhat.com> <200701042125.50593.dennis@ausil.us> <1167972179.3159.16.camel@vader.jdub.homelinux.org> <20070105044227.GA13647@nostromo.devel.redhat.com> Message-ID: <20070105050732.GA24819@jadzia.bu.edu> On Thu, Jan 04, 2007 at 11:42:27PM -0500, Bill Nottingham wrote: > > It would be nice if NM supported profiles too. Like "Home" and "Office" > > where it sets up /etc/hosts and /etc/resolv.conf to be what you'd want > > for the two different networks. > Shouldn't resolve.conf be pulled from DNS? >From DNS? How's *that* gonna work without a resolv.conf? :) But anyway, man do I hate it when a DHCP connection overrides the default search path I put in there. When I type an unqualified name on my laptop, I expect it to always mean the same thing. Sigh. -- Matthew Miller mattdm at mattdm.org Boston University Linux ------> From naoki at valuecommerce.com Fri Jan 5 05:19:39 2007 From: naoki at valuecommerce.com (Naoki) Date: Fri, 05 Jan 2007 14:19:39 +0900 Subject: Fedora 7 - Desktop and Server spins. In-Reply-To: <604aa7910701042018p73a86cdend89bb01ecfbb9f9a@mail.gmail.com> References: <20070104195032.GE4693@nostromo.devel.redhat.com> <459DAE83.2030506@andrei.myip.org> <604aa7910701041802s74d931a6we0e147a05e39166f@mail.gmail.com> <200701042302.28629.jkeating@redhat.com> <604aa7910701042018p73a86cdend89bb01ecfbb9f9a@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <1167974379.2172.112.camel@dragon.valuecommerce.ne.jp> Is the core problem simply one of space? If all packages fit on HD-DVD (Blu-Ray) for example then we no longer need separate spins? (forgetting for now that there is no mass market penetration of said devices). Will there ever be a removable storage unit large enough to hold all available packages, probably, as flash moves along. I have not bothered with DVDs for a long time, preferring instead to use network boot as it's just cleaner/faster for me. It can be handy though to build ones own DVDs with specific package sets. Although with 8,16,32GB flash memory more common I'd rather just use a simple application to select the packages I want a "burn" then to a USB storage device, from which I could then boot/install. From zboszor at freemail.hu Fri Jan 5 05:27:05 2007 From: zboszor at freemail.hu (Zoltan Boszormenyi) Date: Fri, 05 Jan 2007 06:27:05 +0100 Subject: Fedora 7 In-Reply-To: <1167961447.3159.11.camel@vader.jdub.homelinux.org> References: <20070104195032.GE4693@nostromo.devel.redhat.com> <459D897D.2070501@freemail.hu> <1167961447.3159.11.camel@vader.jdub.homelinux.org> Message-ID: <459DE1A9.8070406@freemail.hu> Josh Boyer ?rta: > On Fri, 2007-01-05 at 00:10 +0100, Zoltan Boszormenyi wrote: > >> Bill Nottingham ?rta: >> >>> It's time to bite the bullet. >>> ... >>> - Add wireless firmware for all the chipsets we can >>> >>> >> Speaking of hardware that needs firmware to work at all, >> how about adding the foo2zjs driver and the firmware for >> the cheap HP LaserJet series like 1000/1015/1018/1020? >> > > Is it freely redistributable? URL? > > josh > http://foo2zjs.rkkda.com/ http://foo2zjs.rkkda.com/foo2zjs.tar.gz The COPYING file says: -----------------8<---------------------------- Copyright HP... sihp1000.img (2001) sihp1005.img (2002) sihp1018.img (2005) sihp1020.img (2005) hpclj2600n-0.icm (2003) 3700 Copyright Konica Minolta... CPWL12W.icm (1998) CPWL24W.icm (1998) CPWL6W.icm (1998) DL2200RGB.icm (1999) DL2312.icm (2001) DL2324.icm (2001) km2430_0.icm (2003) km2430_1.icm (2003) km2430_2.icm (2003) Copyright Rick Richardson. All Rights Reserved. hpclj2600n-1.icm (2006) Everything else is... ----------------------------------------------------------------------------- GNU GENERAL PUBLIC LICENSE Version 2, June 1991 ... (regular GPLv2 COPYING continues) -----------------8<---------------------------- So, the same treatment would apply to the HP firmwares and HP/Minolta ICM files as to the wireless firmwares: find lawyers and have the vendors to make them redistributable. Anyway, these files are on their respective driver CDs, with the slight exception of the sihp* files above. In my case, on the driver disk for the HP 1020, these files can be found: hp1020.img hp1022.img hp1022n.img These have to be run through the "arm2hpdl" program which foo2zjs provides and which prepends a small PJL header: And I know that the driver is in Livna, but it provides neither the HP firmware files nor the needed hotplug/udev scripts to upload them when the system encounters such a printer on boot or when the printer is turned on. foo2zjs has them in the .tar.gz. Well, for the case of HP 1020, it carries an older firmware release (20040929) and the newer one (20050318) that's on the driver disk makes the printer speedier. And in case you wonder, the whole ZJStream protocol is open so a GPL driver could have been written. Link can be found on the foo2zjs homepage. Best regards, Zolt?n B?sz?rm?nyi From dakingun at gmail.com Fri Jan 5 05:34:46 2007 From: dakingun at gmail.com (Deji Akingunola) Date: Fri, 5 Jan 2007 00:34:46 -0500 Subject: Fedora 7 In-Reply-To: <459DE1A9.8070406@freemail.hu> References: <20070104195032.GE4693@nostromo.devel.redhat.com> <459D897D.2070501@freemail.hu> <1167961447.3159.11.camel@vader.jdub.homelinux.org> <459DE1A9.8070406@freemail.hu> Message-ID: On 1/5/07, Zoltan Boszormenyi wrote: > Josh Boyer ?rta: > > On Fri, 2007-01-05 at 00:10 +0100, Zoltan Boszormenyi wrote: > > > >> Bill Nottingham ?rta: > >> > >>> It's time to bite the bullet. > >>> ... > >>> - Add wireless firmware for all the chipsets we can > >>> > >>> > >> Speaking of hardware that needs firmware to work at all, > >> how about adding the foo2zjs driver and the firmware for > >> the cheap HP LaserJet series like 1000/1015/1018/1020? > >> > > > > Is it freely redistributable? URL? > > > > josh > > > > http://foo2zjs.rkkda.com/ > http://foo2zjs.rkkda.com/foo2zjs.tar.gz > The COPYING file says: ... > > And in case you wonder, the whole ZJStream > protocol is open so a GPL driver could have > been written. Link can be found on the > foo2zjs homepage. > It depends on jbigkit, which is allegedly patent encumbered. Deji From tadams-lists at myrealbox.com Fri Jan 5 04:20:24 2007 From: tadams-lists at myrealbox.com (Trever L. Adams) Date: Thu, 04 Jan 2007 21:20:24 -0700 Subject: Fedora Core 7 - Compiz vs Beryl In-Reply-To: <1167957394.2172.46.camel@dragon.valuecommerce.ne.jp> References: <20070104212706.44899.qmail@web52412.mail.yahoo.com> <1167957394.2172.46.camel@dragon.valuecommerce.ne.jp> Message-ID: <1167970824.8614.2.camel@aurora.localdomain> On Fri, 2007-01-05 at 09:36 +0900, Naoki wrote: > Compiz is the upstream original, Beryl is a fork. > > Compiz uses gconf which is pretty standard and works well with gnome > obviously, Beryl uses flat file. > > Beryl has (had?) some additional plugins, but plugins are being written > for compiz all the time as well, look at compiz-extras. > > Beryl has a theme manager, compiz uses cairo, metacity, or KDE themes. > > They look the same to me but Compiz just seems to be the better > integrated of the two. And as of the last version, compiz had a horrid configuration (read almost none) for the different plugins, etc. That needs to be fixed. I like the GREAT configurability of Beryl. Trever -- "Magazines all too frequently lead to books and should be regarded by the prudent as the heavy petting of literature." -- Fran Lebowitz From zboszor at freemail.hu Fri Jan 5 06:32:46 2007 From: zboszor at freemail.hu (Zoltan Boszormenyi) Date: Fri, 05 Jan 2007 07:32:46 +0100 Subject: Fedora 7 In-Reply-To: References: <20070104195032.GE4693@nostromo.devel.redhat.com> <459D897D.2070501@freemail.hu> <1167961447.3159.11.camel@vader.jdub.homelinux.org> <459DE1A9.8070406@freemail.hu> Message-ID: <459DF10E.90608@freemail.hu> Deji Akingunola ?rta: > On 1/5/07, Zoltan Boszormenyi wrote: >> Josh Boyer ?rta: >> > On Fri, 2007-01-05 at 00:10 +0100, Zoltan Boszormenyi wrote: >> > >> >> Bill Nottingham ?rta: >> >> >> >>> It's time to bite the bullet. >> >>> ... >> >>> - Add wireless firmware for all the chipsets we can >> >>> >> >>> >> >> Speaking of hardware that needs firmware to work at all, >> >> how about adding the foo2zjs driver and the firmware for >> >> the cheap HP LaserJet series like 1000/1015/1018/1020? >> >> >> > >> > Is it freely redistributable? URL? >> > >> > josh >> > >> >> http://foo2zjs.rkkda.com/ >> http://foo2zjs.rkkda.com/foo2zjs.tar.gz >> The COPYING file says: > ... >> >> And in case you wonder, the whole ZJStream >> protocol is open so a GPL driver could have >> been written. Link can be found on the >> foo2zjs homepage. >> > It depends on jbigkit, which is allegedly patent encumbered. > > Deji Of which half of them is expired already, some of them are pending (they aren't valid yet) and for the rest (which _might apply_, not known apply) HP and Konica/Minolta must have payed the bill already and the driver is for their printers. Until proper support for all HP printers, hplip is literally only a lip service. :-( Best regards, Zolt?n B?sz?rm?nyi From fedora at leemhuis.info Fri Jan 5 06:55:17 2007 From: fedora at leemhuis.info (Thorsten Leemhuis) Date: Fri, 05 Jan 2007 07:55:17 +0100 Subject: Fedora Desktop vs. Fedora Desktop {GNOME,KDE} (was: Re: Fedora 7) In-Reply-To: <459D702A.8050705@fedoraproject.org> References: <20070104195032.GE4693@nostromo.devel.redhat.com> <200701041613.50625.jkeating@redhat.com> <459D702A.8050705@fedoraproject.org> Message-ID: <459DF655.9070203@leemhuis.info> On 04.01.2007 22:22, Rahul Sundaram wrote: > Jesse Keating wrote: >> Yes, Fedora Desktop and Fedora Server will probably be the official Fedora >> Project spins of Fedora. Fedora KDE is the proof of concept, perhaps widely >> used "community contributed" spin of Fedora. That's why (IMHO) its named >> specifically with "KDE" whereas the official spin is just "Desktop". If you >> don't know what "KDE" or "GNOME" is, you wouldn't know to choose it. Desktop >> is a good generic name that is understandable. However if you already know >> and prefer KDE, you know to get the KDE spin. > It would be consistent to have something like > Fedora Desktop (GNOME edition) and > Fedora Desktop (KDE edition) > It's confusing and discriminatory to call one of the spins as the > desktop when you have more (which is likely to increase) than one > desktop oriented spins. +1 from me to this as a long term Gnome user that's not much interested in KDE; but I know others are. This issue brings up a interesting question: Which board has the power to influence and adjust this particular naming scheme in our new "merged" world? FESCo or the Fedora Board? CU thl From giallu at gmail.com Fri Jan 5 07:58:14 2007 From: giallu at gmail.com (Gianluca Sforna) Date: Fri, 5 Jan 2007 08:58:14 +0100 Subject: Fedora 7 In-Reply-To: <1167965940.10344.55.camel@aglarond.local> References: <20070104195032.GE4693@nostromo.devel.redhat.com> <1167965940.10344.55.camel@aglarond.local> Message-ID: On 1/5/07, Jeremy Katz wrote: > Handling resize nicely is going to require a bit of rethinking and > reworking of the entire partitioning interface What if someone (ie. me) provide some mockups of a potential interface for doing that? Is there a dedicated development list for anaconda to interact with? > (not to mention the > backend code). Which admittedly, I did never look at... > Given resource constraints, there's just not really a > good way to get to something that's feature complete without losing big > pieces in time for the feature freeze at test2. I see. However, I think this is important enough so it deserves to be started, so at least it could be ready for proper testing in time from F8 > > It's definitely something on the bigger picture roadmap for anaconda, > but this just isn't going to be the release where it's reasonable for it > to happen. ACK From tmus at tmus.dk Fri Jan 5 08:28:24 2007 From: tmus at tmus.dk (Thomas M Steenholdt) Date: Fri, 05 Jan 2007 09:28:24 +0100 Subject: whatever happened to the Alt+F2 installer shell? In-Reply-To: <459D2BC8.2060709@cohtech.com> References: <1167909304.18707.55.camel@shinybook.infradead.org> <459D2BC8.2060709@cohtech.com> Message-ID: Howard Wilkinson wrote: > What switch are you talking to. We have to set our switches to forced > 100 Mbps, Duplex and port fast enabled for the link to come up fast > enough for the code not to time out on e100 drivers. > VMware virtual switch and some cisco stuff. This has never been an issue before, so there's a bug somewhere. Pls. follow the BZ for more info/input. Thanks. /Thomas From peter at thecodergeek.com Fri Jan 5 09:05:45 2007 From: peter at thecodergeek.com (Peter Gordon) Date: Fri, 05 Jan 2007 01:05:45 -0800 Subject: Fedora Core 7 - Compiz vs Beryl In-Reply-To: <1167970824.8614.2.camel@aurora.localdomain> References: <20070104212706.44899.qmail@web52412.mail.yahoo.com> <1167957394.2172.46.camel@dragon.valuecommerce.ne.jp> <1167970824.8614.2.camel@aurora.localdomain> Message-ID: <1167987945.3323.7.camel@localhost> On Thu, 2007-01-04 at 21:20 -0700, Trever L. Adams wrote: > And as of the last version, compiz had a horrid configuration (read > almost none) for the different plugins, etc. Nearly if not all of it is through GConf. While no graphical preferences capplet or similar exists for it yet, the keys are listed in detail in gconf-editor and modifying them gets you the results you need/want. > That needs to be fixed. I like the GREAT configurability of Beryl. That configurability comes at the cost of a disastrous UI and many cases of Not-Invented-Here syndrome (using flat files for storage instead of GConf, using its own themes instead of those of Metacity/Cairo/GTK, et. al). That, and the fact that the people of Beryl is purportedly much less strict about the quality and consistency of code accepted. I've got three words for that: No thank you. -- Peter Gordon (codergeek42) GnuPG Public Key ID: 0xFFC19479 / Fingerprint: DD68 A414 56BD 6368 D957 9666 4268 CB7A FFC1 9479 My Blog: http://thecodergeek.com/blog/ -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: signature.asc Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 189 bytes Desc: This is a digitally signed message part URL: From nicolas.mailhot at laposte.net Fri Jan 5 09:18:16 2007 From: nicolas.mailhot at laposte.net (Nicolas Mailhot) Date: Fri, 5 Jan 2007 10:18:16 +0100 (CET) Subject: Fedora 7 In-Reply-To: <20070105024131.GI10665@nostromo.devel.redhat.com> References: <20070104195032.GE4693@nostromo.devel.redhat.com> <20070104205645.GA6194@hurricane.linuxnetz.de> <1167948109.21968.3.camel@rousalka.dyndns.org> <20070105024131.GI10665@nostromo.devel.redhat.com> Message-ID: <58436.192.54.193.51.1167988696.squirrel@rousalka.dyndns.org> Le Ven 5 janvier 2007 03:41, Bill Nottingham a ?crit : > Nicolas Mailhot (nicolas.mailhot at laposte.net) said: >> What happened to the firefox3/xulruner plans ? > > Utterly dependent on upstream. I suppose it's worth checking on. This should be clarified ASAP. There are several problems? with the current firefox2 packaging in devel, and I know people refrained from commenting on it because it was announced as a transitionnal firefox3 placeholder. We need to know what version of the main distro browser needs to be beaten into shape. ? UI localization, pango ligature bug... -- Nicolas Mailhot From drago01 at gmail.com Fri Jan 5 09:24:16 2007 From: drago01 at gmail.com (dragoran) Date: Fri, 05 Jan 2007 10:24:16 +0100 Subject: Fedora Core 7 - Compiz vs Beryl In-Reply-To: <1167987945.3323.7.camel@localhost> References: <20070104212706.44899.qmail@web52412.mail.yahoo.com> <1167957394.2172.46.camel@dragon.valuecommerce.ne.jp> <1167970824.8614.2.camel@aurora.localdomain> <1167987945.3323.7.camel@localhost> Message-ID: <459E1940.1090504@gmail.com> Peter Gordon wrote: > On Thu, 2007-01-04 at 21:20 -0700, Trever L. Adams wrote: > >> And as of the last version, compiz had a horrid configuration (read >> almost none) for the different plugins, etc. >> > > Nearly if not all of it is through GConf. While no graphical preferences > capplet or similar exists for it yet, the keys are listed in detail in > gconf-editor and modifying them gets you the results you need/want. > > there is a configuration tool for compiz that comunicate with compiz using dbus http://www.go-compiz.org/index.php?title=Compiz-Settings I would like to see this in extras (but requires compiz > 0.3.3) so only devel for now >> That needs to be fixed. I like the GREAT configurability of Beryl. >> > > That configurability comes at the cost of a disastrous UI and many cases > of Not-Invented-Here syndrome (using flat files for storage instead of > GConf, using its own themes instead of those of Metacity/Cairo/GTK, et. > al). That, and the fact that the people of Beryl is purportedly much > less strict about the quality and consistency of code accepted. > > I've got three words for that: No thank you. > +1 for me beryl is nothing but a hack (much less stable than compiz) From jamatos at fc.up.pt Fri Jan 5 09:32:06 2007 From: jamatos at fc.up.pt (=?utf-8?q?Jos=C3=A9_Matos?=) Date: Fri, 5 Jan 2007 09:32:06 +0000 Subject: Fedora 7 In-Reply-To: <3e4ec4600701042028h36985ef2r1ca5491a34df7c2b@mail.gmail.com> References: <20070104195032.GE4693@nostromo.devel.redhat.com> <459D702A.8050705@fedoraproject.org> <3e4ec4600701042028h36985ef2r1ca5491a34df7c2b@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <200701050932.06534.jamatos@fc.up.pt> On Friday 05 January 2007 4:28 am, Michael Wiktowy wrote: > I don't think it is descriminatory at all. I do. Please take what follows in a light mood, at least I did. > Actually, what would be consistent would be for the Gnome community to > name something "This does Foo" that has functionality Foo and the KDE > community to name something "KBar" that has the functionality Bar (and > I have a whole bunch of KStuff in my Gnome menu to prove it). Jesse's > original suggestion is more inline with that since KFedora is a bit > unweildy. I would call that more an historical accident that a planned strategy. Please don't forget as well gedit, gaim, gphoto... OTHO I use gwenview - Simple image viewer for KDE. > KDE folk seem to like their brand stuck on every piece of software > made for that desktop. Gnome folk tend not to go that route and name > their apps random obscure words and put localized descriptions in the > menus. To each their own. The plan (and practice) for KDE 4 is not to add a k preffix in a gratuitous way. FWIW the only new project that I remember now that starts with k, for KDE 4, is KDE 4 itself. :-) Certainly the existing projects will retain their names, it would be foolish to do it otherwise, but please don't put intention where it is not. > /Mike -- Jos? Ab?lio From rc040203 at freenet.de Fri Jan 5 09:34:00 2007 From: rc040203 at freenet.de (Ralf Corsepius) Date: Fri, 05 Jan 2007 10:34:00 +0100 Subject: Fedora 7 In-Reply-To: <200701042124.05888.dennis@ausil.us> References: <20070104195032.GE4693@nostromo.devel.redhat.com> <20070105025955.GO10665@nostromo.devel.redhat.com> <200701042118.01260.dennis@ausil.us> <200701042124.05888.dennis@ausil.us> Message-ID: <1167989640.9424.336.camel@mccallum.corsepiu.local> On Thu, 2007-01-04 at 21:24 -0600, Dennis Gilmore wrote: > On Thursday 04 January 2007 9:18 pm, Dennis Gilmore wrote: > > I think the right Answer is to make NM cover all cases. where you don't > > need to go to other tools. I use entirely NM. but i could see instances > > where i need to choose between multiple static wired configs that NM may > > not be the easiest tool to use. > > I should add i use NM on laptops only. servers and desktops I dont use it. FWIW: I have never managed to get NM working anywhere for me. After having played with it on laptops, desktops/network-clients and my home network's server, I found my myself having disabled NM everywhere. Ralf From vnpenguin at vnoss.org Fri Jan 5 09:35:14 2007 From: vnpenguin at vnoss.org (Vnpenguin) Date: Fri, 5 Jan 2007 10:35:14 +0100 Subject: Fedora 7 In-Reply-To: <1167952815.2847.14.camel@zelda.fubar.dk> References: <20070104195032.GE4693@nostromo.devel.redhat.com> <1167945026.6344.0.camel@zelda.fubar.dk> <20070104231048.GH3822@angus.ind.WPI.EDU> <1167952815.2847.14.camel@zelda.fubar.dk> Message-ID: On 1/5/07, David Zeuthen wrote: > > Yes, it's much much much faster; we simply do "dd if=os.img > of=/dev/sda2" [1] and once that is done we "e2resizefs /dev/sda2" and > finally we configure the system. If you run the live CD from RAM then > the install time takes 3-4 minutes (on a 2GHz system with 1GB RAM). If > not running the live CD from RAM then it's around 7-8 minutes. > > Some time next week I'll post an RPM (to fedora-livecd-list) that you > can install onto the FC6 live CD (remember it got a rw rootfs) so > testing can commence. The installer is text based right now but writing > a small GTK+ app for this is relatively easy. > > David > > [1] : where os.img stems from the live cd and is the ext3 fs.. > and /dev/sda2 is the target partition > Thank you, David! I'm waiting impatiently for your package :) Cheers, -- http://vnoss.org From pbrobinson at gmail.com Fri Jan 5 09:30:48 2007 From: pbrobinson at gmail.com (Peter Robinson) Date: Fri, 5 Jan 2007 09:30:48 +0000 Subject: Fedora 7 In-Reply-To: <1167972351.3159.20.camel@vader.jdub.homelinux.org> References: <20070104195032.GE4693@nostromo.devel.redhat.com> <1167963849.2172.91.camel@dragon.valuecommerce.ne.jp> <1167972351.3159.20.camel@vader.jdub.homelinux.org> Message-ID: <5256d0b0701050130o3222dc17kbabd51688b4aac2f@mail.gmail.com> > > This is going to sound really stupid but what the heck; The nice thing > > about the "core" and "extras" differentiation was you knew what was > > "core" and what was "extra". > > > > > Also, how will this help the creation of RHEL? If Fedora is to remain > > the basis for RHEL will this not slightly confuse things? > > Why is this a concern for Fedora? It's not. It's something Red Hat > will have to figure out. Though I doubt it will be very hard for them > to do so. > > Besides, RHEL already contains a package set that spans today's Core and > Extras. Exim is an example. It's in RHEL, and it's in Extras. Let the > engineers at Red Hat decide what to put in RHEL. They seem to be doing > a fine job already. I suspect it will be just another spin of the Fedora package tree like Desktop or Server that is then further stabilised so not much different to now. Most of the stuff that's happening in Fedora is just as relevant to rhel as it is fedora. Peter From drago01 at gmail.com Fri Jan 5 09:56:39 2007 From: drago01 at gmail.com (dragoran) Date: Fri, 05 Jan 2007 10:56:39 +0100 Subject: Fedora 7 In-Reply-To: <20070104195032.GE4693@nostromo.devel.redhat.com> References: <20070104195032.GE4693@nostromo.devel.redhat.com> Message-ID: <459E20D7.9020307@gmail.com> Bill Nottingham wrote: > [..] > - A Fedora Desktop spin > - A Fedora Server spin > - A Fedora KDE spin > > what about updating from fc6 -> f7 ? lets say some has gnome+kde+server packages installed is it possible to upgrade to f7 *without* requiring a network connection during install? seems not until we have a Fedora 7 DVD similar to Fedora Core now. > [..] > Here's to making Fedora 7 the best release yet! > > go for it! > Bill > > From thomas.canniot at laposte.net Fri Jan 5 10:21:13 2007 From: thomas.canniot at laposte.net (Thomas Canniot) Date: Fri, 05 Jan 2007 11:21:13 +0100 Subject: Fedora 7 In-Reply-To: <459D6E84.50008@fedoraproject.org> References: <20070104195032.GE4693@nostromo.devel.redhat.com> <459D6E84.50008@fedoraproject.org> Message-ID: <1167992473.3024.3.camel@localhost.localdomain> Le vendredi 05 janvier 2007 ? 02:45 +0530, Rahul Sundaram a ?crit : > Vnpenguin wrote: > > >> - Add the nouveau drivers for nVidia cards > > > > "nouveau" ? :-) > > I am not sure whether that was a serious question or a joke I didnt > understand. If its a serious question OP did refer to > http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Releases/7/Features which has the details. > If it's a joke I would be curious to know what it is. > > Rahul > I think it can be a pun... As "nouveau" means "new" in French, I first understood it as : "Add the new drivers for nVidia cards". The term nouveau here refers to the name of the new nVidia driver, which is a new technology. I think finding a word of French origin was seen odd from Vnpenguin and that he thought it was a mistake in the writing. "Add the new nouveau drivers for nVidia cards" ... is gorgeous to read :p -- Thomas Canniot http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/ThomasCanniot From jamatos at fc.up.pt Fri Jan 5 10:48:32 2007 From: jamatos at fc.up.pt (=?utf-8?q?Jos=C3=A9_Matos?=) Date: Fri, 5 Jan 2007 10:48:32 +0000 Subject: Fedora 7 In-Reply-To: <1167992473.3024.3.camel@localhost.localdomain> References: <20070104195032.GE4693@nostromo.devel.redhat.com> <459D6E84.50008@fedoraproject.org> <1167992473.3024.3.camel@localhost.localdomain> Message-ID: <200701051048.33174.jamatos@fc.up.pt> On Friday 05 January 2007 10:21 am, Thomas Canniot wrote: > I think it can be a pun... As "nouveau" means "new" in French, I first > understood it as : "Add the new drivers for nVidia cards". FWIW and due to the strange relations between French and English, nouveau is also an English word: http://www.m-w.com/dictionary/nouveau -- Jos? Ab?lio From chitlesh at fedoraproject.org Fri Jan 5 10:52:59 2007 From: chitlesh at fedoraproject.org (Chitlesh GOORAH) Date: Fri, 5 Jan 2007 11:52:59 +0100 Subject: Fedora 7 In-Reply-To: <200701051048.33174.jamatos@fc.up.pt> References: <20070104195032.GE4693@nostromo.devel.redhat.com> <459D6E84.50008@fedoraproject.org> <1167992473.3024.3.camel@localhost.localdomain> <200701051048.33174.jamatos@fc.up.pt> Message-ID: <13dbfe4f0701050252y6af45a88i7ecb01cb583261a1@mail.gmail.com> On 1/5/07, Jos? Matos wrote: > FWIW and due to the strange relations between French and English, nouveau is > also an English word: > > http://www.m-w.com/dictionary/nouveau Some of the core team of nouveau are french, that may be the reason :) http://nouveau.freedesktop.org/wiki/ This is the homepage of nouveau, a project which aims at producing Open Source 3D drivers for nVidia cards. "nouveau" [nuvo] is the french word for "new" http://icps.u-strasbg.fr/~marchesin/perso/ Chitlesh -- http://clunixchit.blogspot.com From buildsys at redhat.com Fri Jan 5 11:24:39 2007 From: buildsys at redhat.com (buildsys at redhat.com) Date: Fri, 5 Jan 2007 06:24:39 -0500 Subject: rawhide report: 20070105 changes Message-ID: <200701051124.l05BOdUa022439@hs20-bc2-6.build.redhat.com> Updated Packages: bind-31:9.3.3-2.fc7 ------------------- * Thu Jan 04 2007 Martin Stransky - 31:9.3.3-2 - added namedGetForwarders written in shell (#176100), created by Baris Cicek . booty-0.82-1 ------------ * Thu Jan 04 2007 Peter Jones - 0.82-1 - Include drives for /boot and stage1 in device.map (#218453) - Use the right drive list from isys (#217434) findutils-1:4.2.29-2 -------------------- * Fri Jan 05 2007 Miloslav Trmac - 1:4.2.29-2 - Ignore install-info errors in scriptlets fonts-sinhala-0.2.2-1.fc7 ------------------------- * Thu Jan 04 2007 Parag Nemade - 0.2.2-1 - Resolves: RH#206001 (Parag Nemade) gcc-4.1.1-51 ------------ * Thu Jan 04 2007 Jakub Jelinek 4.1.1-51 - bootstrap Ada on ppc32 (David Woodhouse) - fix complex division with -std=c99 or -std=gnu99 (PR c/30360) gimp-help-2-0.1.0.11.fc7 ------------------------ * Thu Jan 04 2007 Nils Philippsen - 2-0.1.0.11 - version 2-0.11 - add disttag glib2-2.12.7-1.fc7 ------------------ * Thu Jan 04 2007 Matthias Clasen - 2.12.7-1 - Update to 2.12.7 - Fix bit-test on x86-64 hal-cups-utils-0.6.4-1.fc7 -------------------------- * Thu Jan 04 2007 Tim Waugh 0.6.4-1 - 0.6.4: - Don't enable/disable existing printers. jwhois-3.2.3-9 -------------- * Fri Jan 05 2007 Miloslav Trmac - 3.2.3-9 - Ignore install-info errors in scriptlets - Remove the trailing dot from Summary: libselinux-1.33.3-1.fc7 ----------------------- * Thu Jan 04 2007 Dan Walsh - 1.33.3-1 - Upgrade to upstream * Merged patch for matchpathcon utility to use file mode information when available from Dan Walsh. mc-1:4.6.1a-39.fc7 ------------------ * Thu Jan 04 2007 Jindrich Novy 4.6.1a-39 - update to new CVS snapshot (fixes #220828) - update bindings again mlocate-0.15-2 -------------- * Fri Jan 05 2007 Miloslav Trmac - 0.15-2 - Add gfs and gfs2 to PRUNEFS Resolves: #220491 system-config-securitylevel-1.6.31-1.fc7 ---------------------------------------- * Thu Jan 04 2007 Chris Lumens 1.6.31-1 - Fix import that was causing a traceback (#221402). uucp-1.07-14.fc7 ---------------- * Thu Jan 04 2007 Peter Vrabec 1.07-14 - spec file improvements (#220534) Broken deps for s390 ---------------------------------------------------------- systemtap - 0.5.10-1.fc7.s390 requires kernel >= 0:2.6.9-11 systemtap-runtime - 0.5.10-1.fc7.s390 requires kernel >= 0:2.6.9-11 From kms at passback.co.uk Fri Jan 5 11:32:11 2007 From: kms at passback.co.uk (Keith Sharp) Date: Fri, 05 Jan 2007 11:32:11 +0000 Subject: Fedora 7 In-Reply-To: References: <20070104195032.GE4693@nostromo.devel.redhat.com> <1167965940.10344.55.camel@aglarond.local> Message-ID: <1167996731.17019.8.camel@animal.passback.co.uk> On Fri, 2007-01-05 at 08:58 +0100, Gianluca Sforna wrote: > On 1/5/07, Jeremy Katz wrote: > > Handling resize nicely is going to require a bit of rethinking and > > reworking of the entire partitioning interface > What if someone (ie. me) provide some mockups of a potential interface > for doing that? > Is there a dedicated development list for anaconda to interact with? Yes: https://www.redhat.com/mailman/listinfo/anaconda-devel-list Keith. From fedora at leemhuis.info Fri Jan 5 11:49:48 2007 From: fedora at leemhuis.info (Thorsten Leemhuis) Date: Fri, 05 Jan 2007 12:49:48 +0100 Subject: Fedora 7 In-Reply-To: <1167965940.10344.55.camel@aglarond.local> References: <20070104195032.GE4693@nostromo.devel.redhat.com> <1167965940.10344.55.camel@aglarond.local> Message-ID: <459E3B5C.3050202@leemhuis.info> On 05.01.2007 03:59, Jeremy Katz wrote: > On Fri, 2007-01-05 at 00:25 +0100, Gianluca Sforna wrote: > [...] >> >> Nothing about anaconda? >> In particular, the partitioning phase is (more or less) the same since >> FC1 and not having something in place to resize an existing (most >> likely ntfs) partition is a big drawback when compared to other >> distros. > Handling resize nicely is going to require a bit of rethinking and > reworking of the entire partitioning interface (not to mention the > backend code). Given resource constraints, there's just not really a > good way to get to something that's feature complete without losing big > pieces in time for the feature freeze at test2. > > It's definitely something on the bigger picture roadmap for anaconda, > but this just isn't going to be the release where it's reasonable for it > to happen. Just FYI: Vista will afaik be able to resize NTFS filesystems on it own. Thus you should be able to free some space on a hard-disk with Vista and install Linux to it. So I'm wondering if we need the resize-feature in the future as much as we do today. Sure, there are a lot of XP machines out in the wild, but most of the *new* machines (where the ability to resize NTFS is mostly needed) will ship with Vista by F8. CU thl From jwboyer at jdub.homelinux.org Fri Jan 5 11:53:24 2007 From: jwboyer at jdub.homelinux.org (Josh Boyer) Date: Fri, 05 Jan 2007 05:53:24 -0600 Subject: Fedora 7 In-Reply-To: <200701050004.23169.jkeating@redhat.com> References: <20070104195032.GE4693@nostromo.devel.redhat.com> <20070105044227.GA13647@nostromo.devel.redhat.com> <1167973107.3159.32.camel@vader.jdub.homelinux.org> <200701050004.23169.jkeating@redhat.com> Message-ID: <1167998004.3159.43.camel@vader.jdub.homelinux.org> On Fri, 2007-01-05 at 00:04 -0500, Jesse Keating wrote: > On Thursday 04 January 2007 23:58, Josh Boyer wrote: > > And at home, my router is doesn't actually resolve the machine names, so > > I add names to /etc/hosts. Which again breaks when I switch networks. > > It's very annoying. Having something like a "Home" profile that would > > switch to the right settings when selected vs. an "Office" or "External" > > profile would be highly welcome. > > I actually wrote an app that did this for me, before NM was created. It was a > neat way to learn some pygtk/glade stuff. Of course, it only made sense to > me so I never really let the code see the light of day. Share the source man! Or send it to Dan and tell him to integrate it into NM :) josh From vnpenguin at vnoss.org Fri Jan 5 11:57:20 2007 From: vnpenguin at vnoss.org (Vnpenguin) Date: Fri, 5 Jan 2007 12:57:20 +0100 Subject: Fedora 7 In-Reply-To: <1167992473.3024.3.camel@localhost.localdomain> References: <20070104195032.GE4693@nostromo.devel.redhat.com> <459D6E84.50008@fedoraproject.org> <1167992473.3024.3.camel@localhost.localdomain> Message-ID: On 1/5/07, Thomas Canniot wrote: > > > > I think it can be a pun... As "nouveau" means "new" in French, I first > understood it as : "Add the new drivers for nVidia cards". > > The term nouveau here refers to the name of the new nVidia driver, which > is a new technology. I think finding a word of French origin was seen > odd from Vnpenguin and that he thought it was a mistake in the writing. > > "Add the new nouveau drivers for nVidia cards" > > ... is gorgeous to read :p > Thank you Thomas, I see now it's the _name_ of new driver :) Cool ! Cheers, -- http://vnoss.org From giallu at gmail.com Fri Jan 5 12:07:27 2007 From: giallu at gmail.com (Gianluca Sforna) Date: Fri, 5 Jan 2007 13:07:27 +0100 Subject: Fedora 7 In-Reply-To: <459E3B5C.3050202@leemhuis.info> References: <20070104195032.GE4693@nostromo.devel.redhat.com> <1167965940.10344.55.camel@aglarond.local> <459E3B5C.3050202@leemhuis.info> Message-ID: On 1/5/07, Thorsten Leemhuis wrote: > On 05.01.2007 03:59, Jeremy Katz wrote: > > On Fri, 2007-01-05 at 00:25 +0100, Gianluca Sforna wrote: > > [...] > >> > >> Nothing about anaconda? > >> In particular, the partitioning phase is (more or less) the same since > >> FC1 and not having something in place to resize an existing (most > >> likely ntfs) partition is a big drawback when compared to other > >> distros. > > Handling resize nicely is going to require a bit of rethinking and > > reworking of the entire partitioning interface (not to mention the > > backend code). Given resource constraints, there's just not really a > > good way to get to something that's feature complete without losing big > > pieces in time for the feature freeze at test2. > > > > It's definitely something on the bigger picture roadmap for anaconda, > > but this just isn't going to be the release where it's reasonable for it > > to happen. > > Just FYI: Vista will afaik be able to resize NTFS filesystems on it own. I was not aware. thanks. > Thus you should be able to free some space on a hard-disk with Vista and > install Linux to it. So I'm wondering if we need the resize-feature in > the future as much as we do today. Given that, I guess there will be less pressure to add that feature. However, I think it's global value is still quite the same, because it gives users the ability to install Fedora on a brand new PC without intermediate steps in an external environment: just insert the install DVD and boot. From denis at poolshark.org Fri Jan 5 12:24:04 2007 From: denis at poolshark.org (Denis Leroy) Date: Fri, 05 Jan 2007 13:24:04 +0100 Subject: Fedora 7 In-Reply-To: <1167989640.9424.336.camel@mccallum.corsepiu.local> References: <20070104195032.GE4693@nostromo.devel.redhat.com> <20070105025955.GO10665@nostromo.devel.redhat.com> <200701042118.01260.dennis@ausil.us> <200701042124.05888.dennis@ausil.us> <1167989640.9424.336.camel@mccallum.corsepiu.local> Message-ID: <459E4364.4030906@poolshark.org> Ralf Corsepius wrote: > On Thu, 2007-01-04 at 21:24 -0600, Dennis Gilmore wrote: >> On Thursday 04 January 2007 9:18 pm, Dennis Gilmore wrote: >>> I think the right Answer is to make NM cover all cases. where you don't >>> need to go to other tools. I use entirely NM. but i could see instances >>> where i need to choose between multiple static wired configs that NM may >>> not be the easiest tool to use. >> I should add i use NM on laptops only. servers and desktops I dont use it. > FWIW: I have never managed to get NM working anywhere for me. > After having played with it on laptops, desktops/network-clients and my > home network's server, I found my myself having disabled NM everywhere. I use it on both laptops and desktops. I still get frequent cases of having to select my wireless network multiple times until it successfully connects, and the fact it doesn't connect until the user logs in means once I'm logged I have to restart some services such as squid. NM has the thankless job of having to deal with wireless drivers of extremely varying quality and stability. My laptop chipset is well suppobrted (aironet), but on the desktop it's a nightmare. I have a PCI madwifi-based card that's stable but yields horrible signal strength, and two of those little USB wifi adapters. One (Netgear MA111v2) works with ndiswrapper but systematically crashes the kernel on shutdown, the other (a Sagem XG-760N) is only supported by the very unstable zd1211b driver. *sigh*. From jnovy at redhat.com Fri Jan 5 12:34:30 2007 From: jnovy at redhat.com (Jindrich Novy) Date: Fri, 05 Jan 2007 13:34:30 +0100 Subject: Fedora 7 (TeTeX) In-Reply-To: <459D6E03.5030702@di.uminho.pt> References: <20070104195032.GE4693@nostromo.devel.redhat.com> <459D6E03.5030702@di.uminho.pt> Message-ID: <1168000470.4498.10.camel@redhat.usu> On Thu, 2007-01-04 at 21:13 +0000, Jose Pedro Oliveira wrote: > Bill Nottingham wrote: > > And, what would a release be without features. We've identified > > 28 features that we'd like to include in the release, available > > at http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Releases/7/: > > Don't forget that TeTeX needs to be replaced (see #215497). There was a private discussion among teTeX maintainers from mainline distributions related to teTeX replacement involving TeXLive upstream which resulted in a series of TeXLive styles which should function as a teTeX replacement, you can find out more at: http://tug.org/svn/texlive/trunk/Master/texmf/tpm/ (look for tetex) I'm still in close contact with TeXLive upstream and the current work is focused on how to package it in the best way. Jindrich From ndbecker2 at gmail.com Fri Jan 5 12:42:26 2007 From: ndbecker2 at gmail.com (Neal Becker) Date: Fri, 05 Jan 2007 07:42:26 -0500 Subject: Fedora 7 References: <20070104195032.GE4693@nostromo.devel.redhat.com> Message-ID: Any thoughts on moving to suspend2? From pbrobinson at gmail.com Fri Jan 5 12:46:41 2007 From: pbrobinson at gmail.com (Peter Robinson) Date: Fri, 5 Jan 2007 12:46:41 +0000 Subject: Fedora 7 In-Reply-To: References: <20070104195032.GE4693@nostromo.devel.redhat.com> Message-ID: <5256d0b0701050446q68ef8b7bi519c693413e78e48@mail.gmail.com> On 1/5/07, Neal Becker wrote: > Any thoughts on moving to suspend2? I didn't see anything in there to say the fedora kernel guys were changing there 'upstream' policy :-) Peter From jnovy at redhat.com Fri Jan 5 12:47:50 2007 From: jnovy at redhat.com (Jindrich Novy) Date: Fri, 05 Jan 2007 13:47:50 +0100 Subject: Fedora 7 (TeTeX) In-Reply-To: <20070105025437.GM10665@nostromo.devel.redhat.com> References: <20070104195032.GE4693@nostromo.devel.redhat.com> <459D6E03.5030702@di.uminho.pt> <459D6DDB.6050102@fedoraproject.org> <20070105025437.GM10665@nostromo.devel.redhat.com> Message-ID: <1168001270.4498.16.camel@redhat.usu> On Thu, 2007-01-04 at 21:54 -0500, Bill Nottingham wrote: > Rahul Sundaram (sundaram at fedoraproject.org) said: > > Jose Pedro Oliveira wrote: > > >Bill Nottingham wrote: > > >>And, what would a release be without features. We've identified > > >>28 features that we'd like to include in the release, available > > >>at http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Releases/7/: > > > > > >Don't forget that TeTeX needs to be replaced (see #215497). > > > > ... and we need to decide on whether we need to use cdrkit or stay > > with the current version of cdrecord in Fedora. Let me know if a RFE is > > required. > > What needs to happen is that someone needs to Step Up and claim > repsonsibility for these things with a plan for fixing them (on > fedora-devel-list, and then on the wiki). I'm perfectly willing > to add features to the list, but we need people who are going > to be accountable for them. Please do. Feel free to add the Releases/FeatureTexLive to the list of features for F7 assigning me there as an owner, with "Needs done by: Test2". Thanks, Jindrich From mcepl at redhat.com Fri Jan 5 13:00:44 2007 From: mcepl at redhat.com (Matej Cepl) Date: Fri, 5 Jan 2007 13:00:44 +0000 (UTC) Subject: Fedora 7 References: <20070104195032.GE4693@nostromo.devel.redhat.com> <20070104205645.GA6194@hurricane.linuxnetz.de> Message-ID: Robert Scheck scripst: > one Fedora release to another and most of them are tagged EasyFix, too. To make it slightly more concise. Take a look at http://preview.tinyurl.com/vj9j6 -- I am afraid 49 unclosed EasyFixes is still 49 too many. Mat?j -- http://www.ceplovi.cz/matej/blog/, Jabber: ceplmajabber.cz GPG Finger: 89EF 4BC6 288A BF43 1BAB 25C3 E09F EF25 D964 84AC A child can go only so far in life without potty training. It is not mere coincidence that six of the last seven presidents were potty trained, not to mention nearly half of the nation's state legislators. -- Dave Barry From jkeating at redhat.com Fri Jan 5 13:05:22 2007 From: jkeating at redhat.com (Jesse Keating) Date: Fri, 5 Jan 2007 08:05:22 -0500 Subject: Fedora 7 - Desktop and Server spins. In-Reply-To: <1167974379.2172.112.camel@dragon.valuecommerce.ne.jp> References: <20070104195032.GE4693@nostromo.devel.redhat.com> <604aa7910701042018p73a86cdend89bb01ecfbb9f9a@mail.gmail.com> <1167974379.2172.112.camel@dragon.valuecommerce.ne.jp> Message-ID: <200701050805.27702.jkeating@redhat.com> On Friday 05 January 2007 00:19, Naoki wrote: > Is the core problem simply one of space? ?If all packages fit on HD-DVD > (Blu-Ray) for example then we no longer need separate spins? (forgetting > for now that there is no mass market penetration of said devices). Not space on medium, but amount to download. Why should somebody download 8gigs worth for an install that would fit on one/two CDs? -- Jesse Keating Release Engineer: Fedora -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 189 bytes Desc: not available URL: From jkeating at redhat.com Fri Jan 5 13:18:54 2007 From: jkeating at redhat.com (Jesse Keating) Date: Fri, 5 Jan 2007 08:18:54 -0500 Subject: Fedora 7 In-Reply-To: <1167998004.3159.43.camel@vader.jdub.homelinux.org> References: <20070104195032.GE4693@nostromo.devel.redhat.com> <200701050004.23169.jkeating@redhat.com> <1167998004.3159.43.camel@vader.jdub.homelinux.org> Message-ID: <200701050818.54425.jkeating@redhat.com> On Friday 05 January 2007 06:53, Josh Boyer wrote: > Share the source man! ?Or send it to Dan and tell him to integrate it > into NM Oh no, this was horrible stuff. A very simple UI that was a radio button between work and home, with an apply/cancel button under it. The backend would do a series of os.system calls to iwconfig, dhclient, echos into resolve.conf, stuff like that. It wouldn't be very useful, and I think the code for it is long lost in one of my reinstalls. -- Jesse Keating Release Engineer: Fedora -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 189 bytes Desc: not available URL: From jkeating at redhat.com Fri Jan 5 13:20:28 2007 From: jkeating at redhat.com (Jesse Keating) Date: Fri, 5 Jan 2007 08:20:28 -0500 Subject: Fedora 7 In-Reply-To: <459E20D7.9020307@gmail.com> References: <20070104195032.GE4693@nostromo.devel.redhat.com> <459E20D7.9020307@gmail.com> Message-ID: <200701050820.28298.jkeating@redhat.com> On Friday 05 January 2007 04:56, dragoran wrote: > what about updating from fc6 -> f7 ? > lets say some has > gnome+kde+server packages installed > is it possible to upgrade to f7 *without* requiring a network connection > during install? > seems not until we have a Fedora 7 DVD similar to Fedora Core now. How many Fedora 6 installs do you know of that have JUST core installed, no extras? We've long needed to be able to access Extras at upgrade time, now more than ever. Look at the crapstorm that ubuntu went through when their upgrade feature didn't take universe into account. -- Jesse Keating Release Engineer: Fedora -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 189 bytes Desc: not available URL: From drago01 at gmail.com Fri Jan 5 14:16:04 2007 From: drago01 at gmail.com (dragoran) Date: Fri, 05 Jan 2007 15:16:04 +0100 Subject: Fedora 7 In-Reply-To: <200701050820.28298.jkeating@redhat.com> References: <20070104195032.GE4693@nostromo.devel.redhat.com> <459E20D7.9020307@gmail.com> <200701050820.28298.jkeating@redhat.com> Message-ID: <459E5DA4.6080107@gmail.com> Jesse Keating wrote: > On Friday 05 January 2007 04:56, dragoran wrote: > >> what about updating from fc6 -> f7 ? >> lets say some has >> gnome+kde+server packages installed >> is it possible to upgrade to f7 *without* requiring a network connection >> during install? >> seems not until we have a Fedora 7 DVD similar to Fedora Core now. >> > > How many Fedora 6 installs do you know of that have JUST core installed, no > extras? We've long needed to be able to access Extras at upgrade time, now > more than ever. Look at the crapstorm that ubuntu went through when their > upgrade feature didn't take universe into account. > > so we need a everything DVD "Fedora 7 Complete" mirros can have the iso file and loopback mount it to get the "normal tree" saving diskspace. but I doubt that many mirror will do it. we could also ship it only over bittorent. From dcbw at redhat.com Fri Jan 5 14:28:48 2007 From: dcbw at redhat.com (Dan Williams) Date: Fri, 05 Jan 2007 09:28:48 -0500 Subject: Fedora 7 In-Reply-To: <200701050818.54425.jkeating@redhat.com> References: <20070104195032.GE4693@nostromo.devel.redhat.com> <200701050004.23169.jkeating@redhat.com> <1167998004.3159.43.camel@vader.jdub.homelinux.org> <200701050818.54425.jkeating@redhat.com> Message-ID: <1168007328.3544.6.camel@wireless-62.media.mit.edu> On Fri, 2007-01-05 at 08:18 -0500, Jesse Keating wrote: > On Friday 05 January 2007 06:53, Josh Boyer wrote: > > Share the source man! Or send it to Dan and tell him to integrate it > > into NM > > Oh no, this was horrible stuff. A very simple UI that was a radio button > between work and home, with an apply/cancel button under it. The backend > would do a series of os.system calls to iwconfig, dhclient, echos into > resolve.conf, stuff like that. It wouldn't be very useful, and I think the > code for it is long lost in one of my reinstalls. Config for 0.7 will be much more flexible in addition to allowing system-wide configuration. The page here explains at least the _conceptual_ structure of how the configuration should work. Some of the implementation details are up in the air until we figure out how they relate to/fit in with PolicyKit, which we're looking at now. http://live.gnome.org/NetworkManagerConfiguration One note should be that 'dns-search' should probably be a string array and not just a string item. But once the details are figured out there'll be a spec for these key/value pairs and their type. Really, it's just an array of "connection" objects, each of which itself is an array of dictionary objects that contains key/value pairs that describe the settings. It doesn't really matter how they are stored, whether in GConf, KConfig, LDAP, text files, on a smartcard, or whatever, as long as it can be spit back out in this pretty simple format. Dan From katzj at redhat.com Fri Jan 5 14:42:09 2007 From: katzj at redhat.com (Jeremy Katz) Date: Fri, 05 Jan 2007 09:42:09 -0500 Subject: Fedora Desktop vs. Fedora Desktop {GNOME, KDE} (was: Re: Fedora 7) In-Reply-To: <459DF655.9070203@leemhuis.info> References: <20070104195032.GE4693@nostromo.devel.redhat.com> <200701041613.50625.jkeating@redhat.com> <459D702A.8050705@fedoraproject.org> <459DF655.9070203@leemhuis.info> Message-ID: <1168008129.18319.1.camel@aglarond.local> On Fri, 2007-01-05 at 07:55 +0100, Thorsten Leemhuis wrote: > This issue brings up a interesting question: Which board has the power > to influence and adjust this particular naming scheme in our new > "merged" world? FESCo or the Fedora Board? Ultimately, the Board has to own this issue. Jeremy From jkeating at redhat.com Fri Jan 5 14:44:14 2007 From: jkeating at redhat.com (Jesse Keating) Date: Fri, 5 Jan 2007 09:44:14 -0500 Subject: Fedora Desktop vs. Fedora Desktop {GNOME, KDE} (was: Re: Fedora 7) In-Reply-To: <459DF655.9070203@leemhuis.info> References: <20070104195032.GE4693@nostromo.devel.redhat.com> <459D702A.8050705@fedoraproject.org> <459DF655.9070203@leemhuis.info> Message-ID: <200701050944.14598.jkeating@redhat.com> On Friday 05 January 2007 01:55, Thorsten Leemhuis wrote: > This issue brings up a interesting question: Which board has the power > to influence and adjust this particular naming scheme in our new > "merged" world? FESCo or the Fedora Board? Ultimately I feel it should be the Fedora board. FESCo is really responsible for making sure the full repo is there, and the Distribution cabal (hopefully there will be more than just me) is responsible for taking content from that repository and creating installable iso sets from it. -- Jesse Keating Release Engineer: Fedora -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 189 bytes Desc: not available URL: From katzj at redhat.com Fri Jan 5 14:45:49 2007 From: katzj at redhat.com (Jeremy Katz) Date: Fri, 05 Jan 2007 09:45:49 -0500 Subject: Fedora 7 In-Reply-To: References: <20070104195032.GE4693@nostromo.devel.redhat.com> <1167965940.10344.55.camel@aglarond.local> Message-ID: <1168008349.18319.3.camel@aglarond.local> On Fri, 2007-01-05 at 08:58 +0100, Gianluca Sforna wrote: > On 1/5/07, Jeremy Katz wrote: > > Handling resize nicely is going to require a bit of rethinking and > > reworking of the entire partitioning interface > What if someone (ie. me) provide some mockups of a potential interface > for doing that? > Is there a dedicated development list for anaconda to interact with? Yep, there's anaconda-devel-list and I'm all for starting some discussion around it now, getting some mockups going, etc. Thanks! Jeremy From galibert at pobox.com Fri Jan 5 14:54:17 2007 From: galibert at pobox.com (Olivier Galibert) Date: Fri, 5 Jan 2007 15:54:17 +0100 Subject: Fedora 7 In-Reply-To: <1168007328.3544.6.camel@wireless-62.media.mit.edu> References: <20070104195032.GE4693@nostromo.devel.redhat.com> <200701050004.23169.jkeating@redhat.com> <1167998004.3159.43.camel@vader.jdub.homelinux.org> <200701050818.54425.jkeating@redhat.com> <1168007328.3544.6.camel@wireless-62.media.mit.edu> Message-ID: <20070105145417.GA14720@dspnet.fr.eu.org> On Fri, Jan 05, 2007 at 09:28:48AM -0500, Dan Williams wrote: > Config for 0.7 will be much more flexible in addition to allowing > system-wide configuration. The page here explains at least the > _conceptual_ structure of how the configuration should work. Some of > the implementation details are up in the air until we figure out how > they relate to/fit in with PolicyKit, which we're looking at now. > > http://live.gnome.org/NetworkManagerConfiguration Hmmm, looks like this kind of definition is going to have a hard time working in real setups. Lemme give you some examples of what I use on a regular basis: - eth0 has a static IP in 192.44.78/24, DNS, gw, etc, and also has a static route allowing to use the interface for 192.168.87.0/24 using its static IP which is not in 192.168.* - eth0 has a static IP in 192.44.78/24, DNS, gw. eth1 has an IP in 192.168.87/24. - eth0 and eth1 have the same static IP in 192.168.87/24, eth1 has the route for 192.168.87/24, eth0 has only a route for 192.44.78/24. To that you can sometimes add another interface on another private network for iSCSI. Interfaces, addresses, routes, gateways and upper-level services (DNS, NIS...) are orthogonal for a reason. NM needs to keep this orthogonality at the lower configuration level otherwise there is no chance it will work in real-world setups. Nobody has the intellectual capacity to imagine all the possible setups that exist out there, especially when historical reasons are involved. Even on laptops you can have fun scenarios, for instance I've more than once used my laptop which was connected to an hotel's internet through ethernet as a wifi relay for my SO's laptop. So don't forget ad-hoc wifi connections, masquerading and forwarding ;-) OG. From jkeating at redhat.com Fri Jan 5 15:01:41 2007 From: jkeating at redhat.com (Jesse Keating) Date: Fri, 5 Jan 2007 10:01:41 -0500 Subject: Fedora 7 In-Reply-To: References: <20070104195032.GE4693@nostromo.devel.redhat.com> <20070104205645.GA6194@hurricane.linuxnetz.de> Message-ID: <200701051001.41377.jkeating@redhat.com> On Friday 05 January 2007 08:00, Matej Cepl wrote: > To make it slightly more concise. Take a look at > http://preview.tinyurl.com/vj9j6 -- I am afraid 49 unclosed EasyFixes is > still 49 too many. Why are you including RHN and RHEL bugs in this? What do these have to do with Fedora? -- Jesse Keating Release Engineer: Fedora -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 189 bytes Desc: not available URL: From mattdm at mattdm.org Fri Jan 5 15:01:53 2007 From: mattdm at mattdm.org (Matthew Miller) Date: Fri, 5 Jan 2007 10:01:53 -0500 Subject: Fedora 7 In-Reply-To: <459E5DA4.6080107@gmail.com> References: <20070104195032.GE4693@nostromo.devel.redhat.com> <459E20D7.9020307@gmail.com> <200701050820.28298.jkeating@redhat.com> <459E5DA4.6080107@gmail.com> Message-ID: <20070105150153.GA13767@jadzia.bu.edu> On Fri, Jan 05, 2007 at 03:16:04PM +0100, dragoran wrote: > so we need a everything DVD "Fedora 7 Complete" > mirros can have the iso file and loopback mount it to get the "normal > tree" saving diskspace. but I doubt that many mirror will do it. > we could also ship it only over bittorent. Many of those packages are just going to need to get updated to the latest versions over the network eventually. If you've got the bandwidth for bittorrent, you've got the bandwidth to do a network install. -- Matthew Miller mattdm at mattdm.org Boston University Linux ------> From jwboyer at jdub.homelinux.org Fri Jan 5 15:01:42 2007 From: jwboyer at jdub.homelinux.org (Josh Boyer) Date: Fri, 05 Jan 2007 09:01:42 -0600 Subject: Fedora Desktop vs. Fedora Desktop {GNOME, KDE} (was: Re: Fedora 7) In-Reply-To: <200701050944.14598.jkeating@redhat.com> References: <20070104195032.GE4693@nostromo.devel.redhat.com> <459D702A.8050705@fedoraproject.org> <459DF655.9070203@leemhuis.info> <200701050944.14598.jkeating@redhat.com> Message-ID: <1168009302.3836.102.camel@zod.rchland.ibm.com> On Fri, 2007-01-05 at 09:44 -0500, Jesse Keating wrote: > On Friday 05 January 2007 01:55, Thorsten Leemhuis wrote: > > This issue brings up a interesting question: Which board has the power > > to influence and adjust this particular naming scheme in our new > > "merged" world? FESCo or the Fedora Board? > > Ultimately I feel it should be the Fedora board. FESCo is really responsible > for making sure the full repo is there, and the Distribution cabal (hopefully > there will be more than just me) is responsible for taking content from that > repository and creating installable iso sets from it. I think it's a little more complicated than that. Or maybe not. If there are two committees, one for the repo and one for the release, they need to work really closely together. The release cabal needs a stable set of packages to build the releases from and the repo cabal would need to enforce that. E.g. feature freeze, string freeze, etc. Personally, I'd rather see the current FESCo and Core cabal merged into a single entity that shares both responsibilities. The Packaging Committee would certainly still exist to come up with the packaging guidelines, so that wouldn't change. And you immediately get community involvement in the content of the release isos, which is what I think Jessie meant by "hopefully there will be more than just me". Just my $0.02. josh From drago01 at gmail.com Fri Jan 5 15:06:21 2007 From: drago01 at gmail.com (dragoran) Date: Fri, 05 Jan 2007 16:06:21 +0100 Subject: Fedora 7 In-Reply-To: <20070105150153.GA13767@jadzia.bu.edu> References: <20070104195032.GE4693@nostromo.devel.redhat.com> <459E20D7.9020307@gmail.com> <200701050820.28298.jkeating@redhat.com> <459E5DA4.6080107@gmail.com> <20070105150153.GA13767@jadzia.bu.edu> Message-ID: <459E696D.1010406@gmail.com> Matthew Miller wrote: > On Fri, Jan 05, 2007 at 03:16:04PM +0100, dragoran wrote: > >> so we need a everything DVD "Fedora 7 Complete" >> mirros can have the iso file and loopback mount it to get the "normal >> tree" saving diskspace. but I doubt that many mirror will do it. >> we could also ship it only over bittorent. >> > > Many of those packages are just going to need to get updated to the latest > versions over the network eventually. If you've got the bandwidth for > bittorrent, you've got the bandwidth to do a network install. > I have a 6Mbit flatrate thats not the point, I have many boxes (4) (not connected to the internet) they should be able to be updated to. also I think a media install is faster(I prefer hdd installs but since I am using md raid its no longer possible) and safer than a networkinstall(or even worse update) over internet. From fedora at leemhuis.info Fri Jan 5 15:08:02 2007 From: fedora at leemhuis.info (Thorsten Leemhuis) Date: Fri, 05 Jan 2007 16:08:02 +0100 Subject: Fedora Desktop vs. Fedora Desktop {GNOME, KDE} In-Reply-To: <200701050944.14598.jkeating@redhat.com> References: <20070104195032.GE4693@nostromo.devel.redhat.com> <459D702A.8050705@fedoraproject.org> <459DF655.9070203@leemhuis.info> <200701050944.14598.jkeating@redhat.com> Message-ID: <459E69D2.3080001@leemhuis.info> Jesse Keating schrieb: > On Friday 05 January 2007 01:55, Thorsten Leemhuis wrote: >> This issue brings up a interesting question: Which board has the power >> to influence and adjust this particular naming scheme in our new >> "merged" world? FESCo or the Fedora Board? > > Ultimately I feel it should be the Fedora board. Nearly the same wording as jeremy two minutes earlier ;-) Well, I can live with that, but could one of the Board members (I'm sure at least Rahul, Jeremy and rdieter will read this mail) bring this issue up in the next Board meeting please? > FESCo is really responsible > for making sure the full repo is there, and the Distribution cabal (hopefully > there will be more than just me) is responsible for taking content from that > repository and creating installable iso sets from it. /me in that case I'm really wondering why I got two rough ACKs from rdieter and gdk when I wrote "the things that the Core cabal did and does (release process, bring the tree in shape for release, plan feature to work on or the next release, ...) somehow need to be done by FESCo then" at https://www.redhat.com/archives/fedora-advisory-board/2006-November/msg00248.html /me more and more feels uncomfortable with the situation and now is even more confused -- its getting more and more unclear who is responsible for what in this whole game. Hopefully we sort this out soon... CU thl From sundaram at fedoraproject.org Fri Jan 5 15:04:52 2007 From: sundaram at fedoraproject.org (Rahul Sundaram) Date: Fri, 05 Jan 2007 20:34:52 +0530 Subject: Fedora 7 In-Reply-To: <20070105150153.GA13767@jadzia.bu.edu> References: <20070104195032.GE4693@nostromo.devel.redhat.com> <459E20D7.9020307@gmail.com> <200701050820.28298.jkeating@redhat.com> <459E5DA4.6080107@gmail.com> <20070105150153.GA13767@jadzia.bu.edu> Message-ID: <459E6914.3020706@fedoraproject.org> Matthew Miller wrote: > On Fri, Jan 05, 2007 at 03:16:04PM +0100, dragoran wrote: >> so we need a everything DVD "Fedora 7 Complete" >> mirros can have the iso file and loopback mount it to get the "normal >> tree" saving diskspace. but I doubt that many mirror will do it. >> we could also ship it only over bittorent. > > Many of those packages are just going to need to get updated to the latest > versions over the network eventually. If you've got the bandwidth for > bittorrent, you've got the bandwidth to do a network install. You are making a assumption that the same person is using bittorrent and the installation. That's far from true. I can download using bittorrent and burn several thousand copies for friends who dont have network access. Rahul From jkeating at redhat.com Fri Jan 5 15:09:31 2007 From: jkeating at redhat.com (Jesse Keating) Date: Fri, 5 Jan 2007 10:09:31 -0500 Subject: Fedora Desktop vs. Fedora Desktop {GNOME, KDE} (was: Re: Fedora 7) In-Reply-To: <1168009302.3836.102.camel@zod.rchland.ibm.com> References: <20070104195032.GE4693@nostromo.devel.redhat.com> <200701050944.14598.jkeating@redhat.com> <1168009302.3836.102.camel@zod.rchland.ibm.com> Message-ID: <200701051009.31219.jkeating@redhat.com> On Friday 05 January 2007 10:01, Josh Boyer wrote: > Personally, I'd rather see the current FESCo and Core cabal merged into > a single entity that shares both responsibilities. ?The Packaging > Committee would certainly still exist to come up with the packaging > guidelines, so that wouldn't change. ?And you immediately get community > involvement in the content of the release isos, which is what I think > Jessie meant by "hopefully there will be more than just me". ?Just my > $0.02. Keep in mind that it's just adding more people to a committee who may not care about other things such as sponsorship stuff, policy related to packages, various other stuff that FESCO current has to vote on. Its adding more people, making quorum harder to reach, especially when they might not have any interest/knowledge of whats being voted on. Personally I don't like a "commitee" for each little task that needs done. I'm much more a fan of "hey these are the people doing the work, make sure they talk to eachother, and report progress somewhere". So to that end, I'm going to continue doing work, and reporting progress to places like the Fedora Board, mailing lists, blogs, whatever. -- Jesse Keating Release Engineer: Fedora -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 189 bytes Desc: not available URL: From michael.wiktowy at gmail.com Fri Jan 5 15:14:06 2007 From: michael.wiktowy at gmail.com (Michael Wiktowy) Date: Fri, 5 Jan 2007 10:14:06 -0500 Subject: Fedora 7 In-Reply-To: <200701050932.06534.jamatos@fc.up.pt> References: <20070104195032.GE4693@nostromo.devel.redhat.com> <459D702A.8050705@fedoraproject.org> <3e4ec4600701042028h36985ef2r1ca5491a34df7c2b@mail.gmail.com> <200701050932.06534.jamatos@fc.up.pt> Message-ID: <3e4ec4600701050714w20323944r65c57cdee10d3a05@mail.gmail.com> On 1/5/07, Jos? Matos wrote: > On Friday 05 January 2007 4:28 am, Michael Wiktowy wrote: > > I don't think it is descriminatory at all. > I do. Please take what follows in a light mood, at least I did. Ya ... my intent was not to stir up flame wars but to poke a little fun at both communities and point out this this is a non-issue since each community can name things how they like to. In the end, it is up to the content creators to name the content. > > Actually, what would be consistent would be for the Gnome community to > > name something "This does Foo" that has functionality Foo and the KDE > > community to name something "KBar" that has the functionality Bar (and > > I have a whole bunch of KStuff in my Gnome menu to prove it). Jesse's > > original suggestion is more inline with that since KFedora is a bit > > unweildy. > > I would call that more an historical accident that a planned strategy. > Please don't forget as well gedit, gaim, gphoto... > > OTHO I use gwenview - Simple image viewer for KDE. I was aware of those apps (except for gwenview) but I took a look in my application menu before sending my original message and didn't see any reference to them since they were hidden behind names like Text Editor, Instant Messenger and Photo Viewer whereas all the KDE apps kind of stood out. > > KDE folk seem to like their brand stuck on every piece of software > > made for that desktop. Gnome folk tend not to go that route and name > > their apps random obscure words and put localized descriptions in the > > menus. To each their own. > > The plan (and practice) for KDE 4 is not to add a k preffix in a gratuitous > way. FWIW the only new project that I remember now that starts with k, for > KDE 4, is KDE 4 itself. :-) > > Certainly the existing projects will retain their names, it would be foolish > to do it otherwise, but please don't put intention where it is not. Fair enough. Like I said, I have plenty of KApps in my Gnome menu and like them so I was basing my thoughts on observation from the outside of both camps. I am glad that there are efforts to make both desktop apps work together and not drive them apart. In the end, having things Just Work (TM) is what is best for the end user. /Mike From fedora at leemhuis.info Fri Jan 5 15:16:01 2007 From: fedora at leemhuis.info (Thorsten Leemhuis) Date: Fri, 05 Jan 2007 16:16:01 +0100 Subject: Fedora Desktop vs. Fedora Desktop {GNOME, KDE} In-Reply-To: <1168009302.3836.102.camel@zod.rchland.ibm.com> References: <20070104195032.GE4693@nostromo.devel.redhat.com> <459D702A.8050705@fedoraproject.org> <459DF655.9070203@leemhuis.info> <200701050944.14598.jkeating@redhat.com> <1168009302.3836.102.camel@zod.rchland.ibm.com> Message-ID: <459E6BB1.8090405@leemhuis.info> Josh Boyer schrieb: > On Fri, 2007-01-05 at 09:44 -0500, Jesse Keating wrote: >> On Friday 05 January 2007 01:55, Thorsten Leemhuis wrote: >>> This issue brings up a interesting question: Which board has the power >>> to influence and adjust this particular naming scheme in our new >>> "merged" world? FESCo or the Fedora Board? >> Ultimately I feel it should be the Fedora board. FESCo is really responsible >> for making sure the full repo is there, and the Distribution cabal (hopefully >> there will be more than just me) is responsible for taking content from that >> repository and creating installable iso sets from it. > I think it's a little more complicated than that. I think it is. > Or maybe not. If > there are two committees, one for the repo and one for the release, they > need to work really closely together. And that often sucks. Even with FESCo and the Packaging Committee (they are practically on the same level currently, so none of the two can give the other orders [yes, we normally should not give orders, but sometimes it might be helpfull]) there were some situations where one was pointing to the other "you have to solve this particular issue". That was a bit problematic, and I'd like to avoid a similar situations in the future as much as possible. > The release cabal needs a stable > set of packages to build the releases from and the repo cabal would need > to enforce that. E.g. feature freeze, string freeze, etc. > > Personally, I'd rather see the current FESCo and Core cabal merged into > a single entity that shares both responsibilities. +1 > The Packaging > Committee would certainly still exist to come up with the packaging > guidelines, so that wouldn't change. It should be clear that it remains FESCo's job to enforce the stuff the packaging committee decides. But FESCo should be able to say "Packaging Committee, work out rules for foo, as we have a packaging problem here that needs to be solved, and you guys know best about this kind of stuff is handled" > [...] CU thl From fedora at leemhuis.info Fri Jan 5 15:18:06 2007 From: fedora at leemhuis.info (Thorsten Leemhuis) Date: Fri, 05 Jan 2007 16:18:06 +0100 Subject: Fedora 7 In-Reply-To: <20070105150153.GA13767@jadzia.bu.edu> References: <20070104195032.GE4693@nostromo.devel.redhat.com> <459E20D7.9020307@gmail.com> <200701050820.28298.jkeating@redhat.com> <459E5DA4.6080107@gmail.com> <20070105150153.GA13767@jadzia.bu.edu> Message-ID: <459E6C2E.7000701@leemhuis.info> Matthew Miller schrieb: > On Fri, Jan 05, 2007 at 03:16:04PM +0100, dragoran wrote: >> so we need a everything DVD "Fedora 7 Complete" >> mirros can have the iso file and loopback mount it to get the "normal >> tree" saving diskspace. but I doubt that many mirror will do it. >> we could also ship it only over bittorent. > Many of those packages are just going to need to get updated to the latest > versions over the network eventually. If you've got the bandwidth for > bittorrent, you've got the bandwidth to do a network install. But maybe you have the bandwidth on one machine, want to burn a dvd, travel home, and install/use it there... CU thl From sundaram at fedoraproject.org Fri Jan 5 15:14:33 2007 From: sundaram at fedoraproject.org (Rahul Sundaram) Date: Fri, 05 Jan 2007 20:44:33 +0530 Subject: Fedora Desktop vs. Fedora Desktop {GNOME, KDE} In-Reply-To: <459E69D2.3080001@leemhuis.info> References: <20070104195032.GE4693@nostromo.devel.redhat.com> <459D702A.8050705@fedoraproject.org> <459DF655.9070203@leemhuis.info> <200701050944.14598.jkeating@redhat.com> <459E69D2.3080001@leemhuis.info> Message-ID: <459E6B59.1030205@fedoraproject.org> Thorsten Leemhuis wrote: > Jesse Keating schrieb: >> On Friday 05 January 2007 01:55, Thorsten Leemhuis wrote: >>> This issue brings up a interesting question: Which board has the power >>> to influence and adjust this particular naming scheme in our new >>> "merged" world? FESCo or the Fedora Board? >> Ultimately I feel it should be the Fedora board. > > Nearly the same wording as jeremy two minutes earlier ;-) > > Well, I can live with that, but could one of the Board members (I'm sure > at least Rahul, Jeremy and rdieter will read this mail) bring this issue > up in the next Board meeting please? Yes. I will. My opinion as I have already expressed before several times is that we need to replace the core cabal and FESCo with a technical steering committee with public irc weekly meetings and only escalate issues to the board if there is heavy conflict. The more board members are involved in micro management, the less we will be thinking about long term changes. Rahul From rdieter at math.unl.edu Fri Jan 5 15:20:29 2007 From: rdieter at math.unl.edu (Rex Dieter) Date: Fri, 05 Jan 2007 09:20:29 -0600 Subject: Fedora Desktop vs. Fedora Desktop {GNOME, KDE} (was: Re: Fedora 7) References: <20070104195032.GE4693@nostromo.devel.redhat.com> <200701041613.50625.jkeating@redhat.com> <459D702A.8050705@fedoraproject.org> <459DF655.9070203@leemhuis.info> Message-ID: Thorsten Leemhuis wrote: > On 04.01.2007 22:22, Rahul Sundaram wrote: >> It would be consistent to have something like >> Fedora Desktop (GNOME edition) and >> Fedora Desktop (KDE edition) >> It's confusing and discriminatory to call one of the spins as the >> desktop when you have more (which is likely to increase) than one >> desktop oriented spins. > > +1 from me to this as a long term Gnome user that's not much interested > in KDE; but I know others are. > > This issue brings up a interesting question: Which board has the power > to influence and adjust this particular naming scheme in our new > "merged" world? FESCo or the Fedora Board? Sounds like the consensus (so far) is the Board. You can now count 2 Board members (Rahul and me) for being in favor of this. (: -- Rex From cmadams at hiwaay.net Fri Jan 5 15:20:36 2007 From: cmadams at hiwaay.net (Chris Adams) Date: Fri, 5 Jan 2007 09:20:36 -0600 Subject: Fedora 7 In-Reply-To: <20070105150153.GA13767@jadzia.bu.edu> References: <20070104195032.GE4693@nostromo.devel.redhat.com> <459E20D7.9020307@gmail.com> <200701050820.28298.jkeating@redhat.com> <459E5DA4.6080107@gmail.com> <20070105150153.GA13767@jadzia.bu.edu> Message-ID: <20070105152036.GC802909@hiwaay.net> Once upon a time, Matthew Miller said: > Many of those packages are just going to need to get updated to the latest > versions over the network eventually. If you've got the bandwidth for > bittorrent, you've got the bandwidth to do a network install. That makes a big assumption: that they location with bandwidth is the location being installed. Even with DSL at home, I often download large things at work (OC3 >> DSL) and carry them home on DVD (or notebook hard drive). -- Chris Adams Systems and Network Administrator - HiWAAY Internet Services I don't speak for anybody but myself - that's enough trouble. From nicolas.mailhot at laposte.net Fri Jan 5 15:24:58 2007 From: nicolas.mailhot at laposte.net (Nicolas Mailhot) Date: Fri, 5 Jan 2007 16:24:58 +0100 (CET) Subject: Fedora Desktop vs. Fedora Desktop {GNOME, KDE} (was: Re: Fedora 7) In-Reply-To: <1168009302.3836.102.camel@zod.rchland.ibm.com> References: <20070104195032.GE4693@nostromo.devel.redhat.com> <459D702A.8050705@fedoraproject.org> <459DF655.9070203@leemhuis.info> <200701050944.14598.jkeating@redhat.com> <1168009302.3836.102.camel@zod.rchland.ibm.com> Message-ID: <42603.192.54.193.51.1168010698.squirrel@rousalka.dyndns.org> Le Ven 5 janvier 2007 16:01, Josh Boyer a ?crit : > On Fri, 2007-01-05 at 09:44 -0500, Jesse Keating wrote: >> On Friday 05 January 2007 01:55, Thorsten Leemhuis wrote: >> > This issue brings up a interesting question: Which board has the power >> > to influence and adjust this particular naming scheme in our new >> > "merged" world? FESCo or the Fedora Board? >> >> Ultimately I feel it should be the Fedora board. FESCo is really >> responsible >> for making sure the full repo is there, and the Distribution cabal >> (hopefully >> there will be more than just me) is responsible for taking content from >> that >> repository and creating installable iso sets from it. > > I think it's a little more complicated than that. Or maybe not. If > there are two committees, one for the repo and one for the release, they > need to work really closely together. The release cabal needs a stable > set of packages to build the releases from and the repo cabal would need > to enforce that. E.g. feature freeze, string freeze, etc. My feeling is somehow different. I'd really love to have a clear separation between the group that makes long-term transverse decisions and the group responsible for driving a particular release (with perhaps given Fedora's short lifecycle & usual manager burnout different groups for different releases). That's the only way you'll get clear release focus Regards, -- Nicolas Mailhot From jwboyer at jdub.homelinux.org Fri Jan 5 15:27:13 2007 From: jwboyer at jdub.homelinux.org (Josh Boyer) Date: Fri, 05 Jan 2007 09:27:13 -0600 Subject: Fedora Desktop vs. Fedora Desktop {GNOME, KDE} (was: Re: Fedora 7) In-Reply-To: <200701051009.31219.jkeating@redhat.com> References: <20070104195032.GE4693@nostromo.devel.redhat.com> <200701050944.14598.jkeating@redhat.com> <1168009302.3836.102.camel@zod.rchland.ibm.com> <200701051009.31219.jkeating@redhat.com> Message-ID: <1168010833.3836.112.camel@zod.rchland.ibm.com> On Fri, 2007-01-05 at 10:09 -0500, Jesse Keating wrote: > On Friday 05 January 2007 10:01, Josh Boyer wrote: > > Personally, I'd rather see the current FESCo and Core cabal merged into > > a single entity that shares both responsibilities. The Packaging > > Committee would certainly still exist to come up with the packaging > > guidelines, so that wouldn't change. And you immediately get community > > involvement in the content of the release isos, which is what I think > > Jessie meant by "hopefully there will be more than just me". Just my > > $0.02. > > Keep in mind that it's just adding more people to a committee who may not care > about other things such as sponsorship stuff, policy related to packages, > various other stuff that FESCO current has to vote on. Its adding more > people, making quorum harder to reach, especially when they might not have > any interest/knowledge of whats being voted on. I said their responsibilities should be merged. I didn't say they should necessarily be merged in in their current states. > Personally I don't like a "commitee" for each little task that needs done. Enforcement of policies and release engineering aren't little tasks. You know that. > I'm much more a fan of "hey these are the people doing the work, make sure > they talk to eachother, and report progress somewhere". So to that end, I'm > going to continue doing work, and reporting progress to places like the > Fedora Board, mailing lists, blogs, whatever. Sure. Great. Yet unless you plan on being the benevolent dictator of the iso releases, you will need to know what you're working towards. Which includes package selections, etc. Do you plan on deciding the content all by yourself? I doubt it. josh From fedora at leemhuis.info Fri Jan 5 15:28:05 2007 From: fedora at leemhuis.info (Thorsten Leemhuis) Date: Fri, 05 Jan 2007 16:28:05 +0100 Subject: Fedora Desktop vs. Fedora Desktop {GNOME, KDE} In-Reply-To: <200701051009.31219.jkeating@redhat.com> References: <20070104195032.GE4693@nostromo.devel.redhat.com> <200701050944.14598.jkeating@redhat.com> <1168009302.3836.102.camel@zod.rchland.ibm.com> <200701051009.31219.jkeating@redhat.com> Message-ID: <459E6E85.2040806@leemhuis.info> Jesse Keating schrieb: > On Friday 05 January 2007 10:01, Josh Boyer wrote: >> Personally, I'd rather see the current FESCo and Core cabal merged into >> a single entity that shares both responsibilities. The Packaging >> Committee would certainly still exist to come up with the packaging >> guidelines, so that wouldn't change. And you immediately get community >> involvement in the content of the release isos, which is what I think >> Jessie meant by "hopefully there will be more than just me". Just my >> $0.02. > Keep in mind that it's just adding more people to a committee who may not care > about other things such as sponsorship stuff, policy related to packages, > various other stuff that FESCO current has to vote on. Its adding more > people, making quorum harder to reach, especially when they might not have > any interest/knowledge of whats being voted on. Yeah, true, that problematic. > Personally I don't like a "commitee" for each little task that needs done. > I'm much more a fan of "hey these are the people doing the work, make sure > they talk to eachother, and report progress somewhere". [...] Yes, in an ideal world that should work. In a small Core-world it seems to have worked well, too. But I don't think it will work in a big community project... Just my 2 cent. Cu thl From mattdm at mattdm.org Fri Jan 5 15:29:44 2007 From: mattdm at mattdm.org (Matthew Miller) Date: Fri, 5 Jan 2007 10:29:44 -0500 Subject: Fedora 7 In-Reply-To: <459E6914.3020706@fedoraproject.org> References: <20070104195032.GE4693@nostromo.devel.redhat.com> <459E20D7.9020307@gmail.com> <200701050820.28298.jkeating@redhat.com> <459E5DA4.6080107@gmail.com> <20070105150153.GA13767@jadzia.bu.edu> <459E6914.3020706@fedoraproject.org> Message-ID: <20070105152944.GA15663@jadzia.bu.edu> On Fri, Jan 05, 2007 at 08:34:52PM +0530, Rahul Sundaram wrote: > >Many of those packages are just going to need to get updated to the latest > >versions over the network eventually. If you've got the bandwidth for > >bittorrent, you've got the bandwidth to do a network install. > You are making a assumption that the same person is using bittorrent and > the installation. That's far from true. I can download using bittorrent > and burn several thousand copies for friends who dont have network access. True, but in my experience, that's not the typical case. I think it'd be better to make an easy way for you to generate the DVD iso for this specific purpose than to provide a general one which will get downloaded millions of times by people who would have been better off with a network install. -- Matthew Miller mattdm at mattdm.org Boston University Linux ------> From mattdm at mattdm.org Fri Jan 5 15:30:51 2007 From: mattdm at mattdm.org (Matthew Miller) Date: Fri, 5 Jan 2007 10:30:51 -0500 Subject: Fedora 7 In-Reply-To: <20070105152036.GC802909@hiwaay.net> References: <20070104195032.GE4693@nostromo.devel.redhat.com> <459E20D7.9020307@gmail.com> <200701050820.28298.jkeating@redhat.com> <459E5DA4.6080107@gmail.com> <20070105150153.GA13767@jadzia.bu.edu> <20070105152036.GC802909@hiwaay.net> Message-ID: <20070105153051.GB15663@jadzia.bu.edu> On Fri, Jan 05, 2007 at 09:20:36AM -0600, Chris Adams wrote: > Even with DSL at home, I often download large things at work (OC3 >> > DSL) and carry them home on DVD (or notebook hard drive). Okay, but can't you also decide what you want at work? -- Matthew Miller mattdm at mattdm.org Boston University Linux ------> From clydekunkel7734 at cox.net Fri Jan 5 15:27:34 2007 From: clydekunkel7734 at cox.net (Clyde E. Kunkel) Date: Fri, 05 Jan 2007 10:27:34 -0500 Subject: Warning: kernel-2.6.19-1.2877.fc7 unbootable on Itanium systems (IA-64 architecture) In-Reply-To: <20061218161242.GF14286@redhat.com> References: <20061216144334.GE23368@redhat.com> <200612161152.30703.tbrinkman@sbcglobal.net> <20061218021508.GC8353@redhat.com> <4586B4EA.9000006@cox.net> <20061218161242.GF14286@redhat.com> Message-ID: <459E6E66.5040001@cox.net> Dave Jones wrote: > Software raid is currently busted. > (it won't get autostarted, and the mkinitrd magic to start it isn't > there yet). > > > > > Looked for a BZ but don't see one. Wouldn't one be filed under mkinitrd? > > Its already on Peters 'todo' list, don't know if there's a bug for it. > > Dave > Any ETA for a fix? Been awhile. -- Regards, Old Fart (my reply-to address is "munged" to defeat spambots) From jwboyer at jdub.homelinux.org Fri Jan 5 15:32:45 2007 From: jwboyer at jdub.homelinux.org (Josh Boyer) Date: Fri, 05 Jan 2007 09:32:45 -0600 Subject: Fedora Desktop vs. Fedora Desktop {GNOME, KDE} (was: Re: Fedora 7) In-Reply-To: <1168010833.3836.112.camel@zod.rchland.ibm.com> References: <20070104195032.GE4693@nostromo.devel.redhat.com> <200701050944.14598.jkeating@redhat.com> <1168009302.3836.102.camel@zod.rchland.ibm.com> <200701051009.31219.jkeating@redhat.com> <1168010833.3836.112.camel@zod.rchland.ibm.com> Message-ID: <1168011165.3836.115.camel@zod.rchland.ibm.com> On Fri, 2007-01-05 at 09:27 -0600, Josh Boyer wrote: > On Fri, 2007-01-05 at 10:09 -0500, Jesse Keating wrote: > > On Friday 05 January 2007 10:01, Josh Boyer wrote: > > > Personally, I'd rather see the current FESCo and Core cabal merged into > > > a single entity that shares both responsibilities. The Packaging > > > Committee would certainly still exist to come up with the packaging > > > guidelines, so that wouldn't change. And you immediately get community > > > involvement in the content of the release isos, which is what I think > > > Jessie meant by "hopefully there will be more than just me". Just my > > > $0.02. > > > > Keep in mind that it's just adding more people to a committee who may not care > > about other things such as sponsorship stuff, policy related to packages, > > various other stuff that FESCO current has to vote on. Its adding more > > people, making quorum harder to reach, especially when they might not have > > any interest/knowledge of whats being voted on. > > I said their responsibilities should be merged. I didn't say they > should necessarily be merged in in their current states. Actually, re-reading my own email I really did say "the current FESCo and Core cabal..". I meant the responsibilities though, not necessarily the actual committees themselves. Sorry for the confusion. josh From paul at city-fan.org Fri Jan 5 15:38:56 2007 From: paul at city-fan.org (Paul Howarth) Date: Fri, 05 Jan 2007 15:38:56 +0000 Subject: Fedora 7 In-Reply-To: <20070105153051.GB15663@jadzia.bu.edu> References: <20070104195032.GE4693@nostromo.devel.redhat.com> <459E20D7.9020307@gmail.com> <200701050820.28298.jkeating@redhat.com> <459E5DA4.6080107@gmail.com> <20070105150153.GA13767@jadzia.bu.edu> <20070105152036.GC802909@hiwaay.net> <20070105153051.GB15663@jadzia.bu.edu> Message-ID: <459E7110.1070607@city-fan.org> Matthew Miller wrote: > On Fri, Jan 05, 2007 at 09:20:36AM -0600, Chris Adams wrote: >> Even with DSL at home, I often download large things at work (OC3 >> >> DSL) and carry them home on DVD (or notebook hard drive). > > Okay, but can't you also decide what you want at work? I use the DVD downloaded from work to install both my desktop box and my server box at home... Paul. From dcbw at redhat.com Fri Jan 5 15:46:49 2007 From: dcbw at redhat.com (Dan Williams) Date: Fri, 05 Jan 2007 10:46:49 -0500 Subject: Fedora 7 In-Reply-To: <20070105145417.GA14720@dspnet.fr.eu.org> References: <20070104195032.GE4693@nostromo.devel.redhat.com> <200701050004.23169.jkeating@redhat.com> <1167998004.3159.43.camel@vader.jdub.homelinux.org> <200701050818.54425.jkeating@redhat.com> <1168007328.3544.6.camel@wireless-62.media.mit.edu> <20070105145417.GA14720@dspnet.fr.eu.org> Message-ID: <1168012009.3544.42.camel@wireless-62.media.mit.edu> On Fri, 2007-01-05 at 15:54 +0100, Olivier Galibert wrote: > On Fri, Jan 05, 2007 at 09:28:48AM -0500, Dan Williams wrote: > > Config for 0.7 will be much more flexible in addition to allowing > > system-wide configuration. The page here explains at least the > > _conceptual_ structure of how the configuration should work. Some of > > the implementation details are up in the air until we figure out how > > they relate to/fit in with PolicyKit, which we're looking at now. > > > > http://live.gnome.org/NetworkManagerConfiguration > > Hmmm, looks like this kind of definition is going to have a hard time > working in real setups. Lemme give you some examples of what I use on > a regular basis: Which is why it's good to have feedback :) So at least the 'gateway' item needs to be re-thought, since that's route-based and not interface/connection specific underneath. Though to many users it appears so, because they do not have complex setups, the flexibility needs to be there underneath. > - eth0 has a static IP in 192.44.78/24, DNS, gw, etc, and also has a > static route allowing to use the interface for 192.168.87.0/24 using > its static IP which is not in 192.168.* Can you explain the configuration for these in a bit more detail? So in this example, eth0 has a static IP and DNS, gw, etc are _also_ in the same 192.44.78/24 network. But you've added a route that pushes traffic for the 192.168.87.0/24 network over eth0 (which has no IP address in that network range), correct? > - eth0 has a static IP in 192.44.78/24, DNS, gw. eth1 has an IP in > 192.168.87/24. I think the config would cover that, no? Each interface can obviously have different IP settings (addr, mask, bcast). DNS is a bit different because the order of resolvers in resolv.conf determines some of the behavior, even if the routing rules determine which interface the requests against a particular server actually go out on. What does the output of /sbin/route -n look like for this case? > - eth0 and eth1 have the same static IP in 192.168.87/24, eth1 has the > route for 192.168.87/24, eth0 has only a route for 192.44.78/24. I'm not sure the configuration mentioned above excludes this possibility, can you be more specific on how you couldn't configure your interfaces this way in the proposed config structure? (keeping in mind that gateway should be handled differently than the config structure says) Dan > To that you can sometimes add another interface on another private > network for iSCSI. Interfaces, addresses, routes, gateways and > upper-level services (DNS, NIS...) are orthogonal for a reason. NM > needs to keep this orthogonality at the lower configuration level > otherwise there is no chance it will work in real-world setups. Well, there's certainly a relationship between interfaces and addresses > Nobody has the intellectual capacity to imagine all the possible > setups that exist out there, especially when historical reasons are > involved. > > Even on laptops you can have fun scenarios, for instance I've more > than once used my laptop which was connected to an hotel's internet > through ethernet as a wifi relay for my SO's laptop. So don't forget > ad-hoc wifi connections, masquerading and forwarding ;-) > > OG. > > > From cmadams at hiwaay.net Fri Jan 5 15:46:16 2007 From: cmadams at hiwaay.net (Chris Adams) Date: Fri, 5 Jan 2007 09:46:16 -0600 Subject: Fedora 7 In-Reply-To: <20070105153051.GB15663@jadzia.bu.edu> References: <20070104195032.GE4693@nostromo.devel.redhat.com> <459E20D7.9020307@gmail.com> <200701050820.28298.jkeating@redhat.com> <459E5DA4.6080107@gmail.com> <20070105150153.GA13767@jadzia.bu.edu> <20070105152036.GC802909@hiwaay.net> <20070105153051.GB15663@jadzia.bu.edu> Message-ID: <20070105154615.GD802909@hiwaay.net> Once upon a time, Matthew Miller said: > On Fri, Jan 05, 2007 at 09:20:36AM -0600, Chris Adams wrote: > > Even with DSL at home, I often download large things at work (OC3 >> > > DSL) and carry them home on DVD (or notebook hard drive). > > Okay, but can't you also decide what you want at work? I install my computers (server, desktop, notebook) and some family computers. I also give media to several friends that can't reasonably download anything (some on dialup, one in Iraq). Each has different preferences. -- Chris Adams Systems and Network Administrator - HiWAAY Internet Services I don't speak for anybody but myself - that's enough trouble. From fedora at leemhuis.info Fri Jan 5 15:47:43 2007 From: fedora at leemhuis.info (Thorsten Leemhuis) Date: Fri, 05 Jan 2007 16:47:43 +0100 Subject: Fedora Desktop vs. Fedora Desktop {GNOME, KDE} In-Reply-To: <459E6B59.1030205@fedoraproject.org> References: <20070104195032.GE4693@nostromo.devel.redhat.com> <459D702A.8050705@fedoraproject.org> <459DF655.9070203@leemhuis.info> <200701050944.14598.jkeating@redhat.com> <459E69D2.3080001@leemhuis.info> <459E6B59.1030205@fedoraproject.org> Message-ID: <459E731F.60002@leemhuis.info> Rahul Sundaram schrieb: > Thorsten Leemhuis wrote: >> Jesse Keating schrieb: >>> On Friday 05 January 2007 01:55, Thorsten Leemhuis wrote: >>>> This issue brings up a interesting question: Which board has the power >>>> to influence and adjust this particular naming scheme in our new >>>> "merged" world? FESCo or the Fedora Board? >>> Ultimately I feel it should be the Fedora board. >> Nearly the same wording as jeremy two minutes earlier ;-) >> Well, I can live with that, but could one of the Board members (I'm sure >> at least Rahul, Jeremy and rdieter will read this mail) bring this issue >> up in the next Board meeting please? > Yes. I will. Many thanks. > My opinion as I have already expressed before several times > is that we need to replace the core cabal and FESCo with a technical > steering committee with public irc weekly meetings and only escalate > issues to the board if there is heavy conflict. The more board members > are involved in micro management, the less we will be thinking about > long term changes. Fully agreed. CU thl From galibert at pobox.com Fri Jan 5 16:00:37 2007 From: galibert at pobox.com (Olivier Galibert) Date: Fri, 5 Jan 2007 17:00:37 +0100 Subject: Fedora 7 In-Reply-To: <1168012009.3544.42.camel@wireless-62.media.mit.edu> References: <20070104195032.GE4693@nostromo.devel.redhat.com> <200701050004.23169.jkeating@redhat.com> <1167998004.3159.43.camel@vader.jdub.homelinux.org> <200701050818.54425.jkeating@redhat.com> <1168007328.3544.6.camel@wireless-62.media.mit.edu> <20070105145417.GA14720@dspnet.fr.eu.org> <1168012009.3544.42.camel@wireless-62.media.mit.edu> Message-ID: <20070105160037.GB14720@dspnet.fr.eu.org> On Fri, Jan 05, 2007 at 10:46:49AM -0500, Dan Williams wrote: > On Fri, 2007-01-05 at 15:54 +0100, Olivier Galibert wrote: > > - eth0 has a static IP in 192.44.78/24, DNS, gw, etc, and also has a > > static route allowing to use the interface for 192.168.87.0/24 using > > its static IP which is not in 192.168.* > > Can you explain the configuration for these in a bit more detail? So in > this example, eth0 has a static IP and DNS, gw, etc are _also_ in the > same 192.44.78/24 network. But you've added a route that pushes traffic > for the 192.168.87.0/24 network over eth0 (which has no IP address in > that network range), correct? Yep. These are the desktop boxes, which want to be able to talk to the boxes on the internal network. 2: eth0: mtu 1500 qdisc pfifo_fast qlen 1000 link/ether 00:08:74:a8:7c:f8 brd ff:ff:ff:ff:ff:ff inet 192.44.78.23/24 brd 192.44.78.255 scope global eth0 inet6 fe80::208:74ff:fea8:7cf8/64 scope link valid_lft forever preferred_lft forever 192.168.87.0/24 dev eth0 scope link 192.44.78.0/24 dev eth0 proto kernel scope link src 192.44.78.23 169.254.0.0/16 dev eth0 scope link default via 192.44.78.22 dev eth0 > > - eth0 has a static IP in 192.44.78/24, DNS, gw. eth1 has an IP in > > 192.168.87/24. > > I think the config would cover that, no? Each interface can obviously > have different IP settings (addr, mask, bcast). DNS is a bit different > because the order of resolvers in resolv.conf determines some of the > behavior, even if the routing rules determine which interface the > requests against a particular server actually go out on. Yeah, it's globally more standard. It was to show that it's not a given every interface has dns/nis/etc. These are the servers which are connected to both networks equally. Note btw that the internal network has a (friggin' fast) secondary NIS server, and the configuration is broadcast. So most of the times these boxes use the NIS server on eth1 rather than eth0. 2: eth0: mtu 1500 qdisc pfifo_fast qlen 1000 link/ether 00:30:48:5a:c3:ee brd ff:ff:ff:ff:ff:ff inet 192.44.78.93/24 brd 192.44.78.255 scope global eth0 inet6 fe80::230:48ff:fe5a:c3ee/64 scope link valid_lft forever preferred_lft forever 3: eth1: mtu 1500 qdisc pfifo_fast qlen 1000 link/ether 00:30:48:5a:c3:ef brd ff:ff:ff:ff:ff:ff inet 192.168.87.89/24 brd 192.168.87.255 scope global eth1 inet6 fe80::230:48ff:fe5a:c3ef/64 scope link valid_lft forever preferred_lft forever 192.168.87.0/24 dev eth1 proto kernel scope link src 192.168.87.89 192.44.78.0/24 dev eth0 proto kernel scope link src 192.44.78.93 169.254.0.0/16 dev eth1 scope link 224.0.0.0/4 dev eth1 scope link default via 192.44.78.22 dev eth0 > What does the output of /sbin/route -n look like for this case? Kernel IP routing table Destination Gateway Genmask Flags Metric Ref Use Iface 192.168.87.0 0.0.0.0 255.255.255.0 U 0 0 0 eth1 192.44.78.0 0.0.0.0 255.255.255.0 U 0 0 0 eth0 169.254.0.0 0.0.0.0 255.255.0.0 U 0 0 0 eth1 224.0.0.0 0.0.0.0 240.0.0.0 U 0 0 0 eth1 0.0.0.0 192.44.78.22 0.0.0.0 UG 0 0 0 eth0 > > - eth0 and eth1 have the same static IP in 192.168.87/24, eth1 has the > > route for 192.168.87/24, eth0 has only a route for 192.44.78/24. > > I'm not sure the configuration mentioned above excludes this > possibility, can you be more specific on how you couldn't configure your > interfaces this way in the proposed config structure? (keeping in mind > that gateway should be handled differently than the config structure > says) I'm not sure it doesn't, I'm not sure it does, but the orthogonality between address and route is interesting. These are the internal boxes, with no gw access (they're not routable anyway). 2: eth0: mtu 1500 qdisc pfifo_fast qlen 1000 link/ether 00:14:5e:86:81:58 brd ff:ff:ff:ff:ff:ff inet 192.168.87.171/24 brd 192.168.87.255 scope global eth0 inet6 fe80::214:5eff:fe86:8158/64 scope link valid_lft forever preferred_lft forever 3: eth1: mtu 1500 qdisc pfifo_fast qlen 1000 link/ether 00:14:5e:86:81:59 brd ff:ff:ff:ff:ff:ff inet 192.168.87.171/24 scope global eth1 inet6 fe80::214:5eff:fe86:8159/64 scope link valid_lft forever preferred_lft forever 192.168.87.0/24 dev eth1 proto kernel scope link src 192.168.87.171 192.44.78.0/24 dev eth0 scope link 169.254.0.0/16 dev eth1 scope link 224.0.0.0/4 dev eth1 scope link OG. From chris at tylers.info Fri Jan 5 16:05:26 2007 From: chris at tylers.info (Chris Tyler) Date: Fri, 05 Jan 2007 11:05:26 -0500 Subject: Domain search path (was Re: Fedora 7) In-Reply-To: <20070105093524.208DC72FCA@hormel.redhat.com> References: <20070105093524.208DC72FCA@hormel.redhat.com> Message-ID: <1168013126.18475.44.camel@concord2.proximity.on.ca> On Fri, 2007-01-05 Matthew Miller wrote: > But anyway, man do I hate it when a DHCP connection overrides the > default search path I put in there. When I type an unqualified name on > my laptop, I expect it to always mean the same thing. Sigh. Drove me crazy too before I discovered $LOCALDOMAIN lurking at the end of the resolv.conf manpage. echo 'export LOCALDOMAIN="dom1.com dom2.org"' >>/etc/profile Via ~/.bash_profile it even lets me set my domain search path on machines where I don't have root. When on my laptop, regardless of location (Starbucks, on a train, or visiting a client), I want foohost to mean foohost.mydomain. I think that's a common case, so maybe Anaconda (and/or s-c-n) should have an option for entering a default domain search path to override the DHCP one, save that value into /etc/sysconfig/foo, and then /etc/profile could pick up that value as the system-wide default for $LOCALDOMAIN. -- Chris Tyler http://chris.tylers.info From redhat at olen.net Fri Jan 5 16:09:30 2007 From: redhat at olen.net (Ola Thoresen) Date: Fri, 05 Jan 2007 17:09:30 +0100 Subject: Fedora 7 In-Reply-To: <1168012009.3544.42.camel@wireless-62.media.mit.edu> References: <20070104195032.GE4693@nostromo.devel.redhat.com> <200701050004.23169.jkeating@redhat.com> <1167998004.3159.43.camel@vader.jdub.homelinux.org> <200701050818.54425.jkeating@redhat.com> <1168007328.3544.6.camel@wireless-62.media.mit.edu> <20070105145417.GA14720@dspnet.fr.eu.org> <1168012009.3544.42.camel@wireless-62.media.mit.edu> Message-ID: <459E783A.8020501@olen.net> Dan Williams wrote: > On Fri, 2007-01-05 at 15:54 +0100, Olivier Galibert wrote: >> On Fri, Jan 05, 2007 at 09:28:48AM -0500, Dan Williams wrote: >>> >>> http://live.gnome.org/NetworkManagerConfiguration >> >> Hmmm, looks like this kind of definition is going to have a hard time >> working in real setups. Lemme give you some examples of what I use on >> a regular basis: > > Which is why it's good to have feedback :) So at least the 'gateway' > item needs to be re-thought, since that's route-based and not > interface/connection specific underneath. Though to many users it > appears so, because they do not have complex setups, the flexibility > needs to be there underneath. > It is at least important to be able to add multiple addresses to one (physical) interface. I personally don't like the old eth0:0 eth0:1 (...), but prefer the new iproute2 style, but I guess I can live with aliases as long as it is easy to add/remove them. Rgds. -- _,--', _._.--._____ .--.--';_'-.', ";_ _.,-' Ola Thoresen .'--'. _.' {`'-;_ .-.>.' '-:_ ) / `' '=. It is easier to fix Unix ) > {_/, /~) than to live with Windows |/ `^ .' From dcbw at redhat.com Fri Jan 5 16:27:33 2007 From: dcbw at redhat.com (Dan Williams) Date: Fri, 05 Jan 2007 11:27:33 -0500 Subject: Fedora 7 In-Reply-To: <459E783A.8020501@olen.net> References: <20070104195032.GE4693@nostromo.devel.redhat.com> <200701050004.23169.jkeating@redhat.com> <1167998004.3159.43.camel@vader.jdub.homelinux.org> <200701050818.54425.jkeating@redhat.com> <1168007328.3544.6.camel@wireless-62.media.mit.edu> <20070105145417.GA14720@dspnet.fr.eu.org> <1168012009.3544.42.camel@wireless-62.media.mit.edu> <459E783A.8020501@olen.net> Message-ID: <1168014453.3544.48.camel@wireless-62.media.mit.edu> On Fri, 2007-01-05 at 17:09 +0100, Ola Thoresen wrote: > Dan Williams wrote: > > On Fri, 2007-01-05 at 15:54 +0100, Olivier Galibert wrote: > >> On Fri, Jan 05, 2007 at 09:28:48AM -0500, Dan Williams wrote: > >>> > >>> http://live.gnome.org/NetworkManagerConfiguration > >> > >> Hmmm, looks like this kind of definition is going to have a hard time > >> working in real setups. Lemme give you some examples of what I use on > >> a regular basis: > > > > Which is why it's good to have feedback :) So at least the 'gateway' > > item needs to be re-thought, since that's route-based and not > > interface/connection specific underneath. Though to many users it > > appears so, because they do not have complex setups, the flexibility > > needs to be there underneath. > > > > It is at least important to be able to add multiple addresses to one > (physical) interface. Yep! That's obviously required. > I personally don't like the old eth0:0 eth0:1 (...), but prefer the new That format is vile. > iproute2 style, but I guess I can live with aliases as long as it is > easy to add/remove them. Dan From dennis at ausil.us Fri Jan 5 16:42:22 2007 From: dennis at ausil.us (Dennis Gilmore) Date: Fri, 5 Jan 2007 10:42:22 -0600 Subject: Fedora 7 In-Reply-To: <200701041749.33764.jkeating@redhat.com> References: <20070104195032.GE4693@nostromo.devel.redhat.com> <200701041647.21979.dennis@ausil.us> <200701041749.33764.jkeating@redhat.com> Message-ID: <200701051042.23050.dennis@ausil.us> On Thursday 04 January 2007 16:49, Jesse Keating wrote: > On Thursday 04 January 2007 17:47, Dennis Gilmore wrote: > > Whats needed to add Fedora Directory Server to the List? ?that would be a > > great additional tool to have in F7 > > Somebody to be on the hook to make sure it gets done in time for the > deadlines. > > From Releases/7 page: > > I've got this great feature idea! > > OK. Are you going to work on it? Can you cajole/force someone else to be > Accountable? Then we'll add it! Jarod Wilson and I will be accountable to ensure that Fedora Directory Server is available in F7 -- ?,-._|\ ? ?Dennis Gilmore, RHCE /Aussie\ ? Proud Australian \_.--._/ ? | Aurora | Fedora | ? ? ? v ? ? From alan at clueserver.org Fri Jan 5 16:44:40 2007 From: alan at clueserver.org (alan) Date: Fri, 5 Jan 2007 08:44:40 -0800 (PST) Subject: Fedora Core 7 - Compiz vs Beryl In-Reply-To: <20070104235210.GA9781@nostromo.devel.redhat.com> References: <20070104212706.44899.qmail@web52412.mail.yahoo.com> <20070104235210.GA9781@nostromo.devel.redhat.com> Message-ID: On Thu, 4 Jan 2007, Bill Nottingham wrote: > Otto Rey (otto_rey at yahoo.com.ar) said: >> What do you think about to replace Compiz with Beryl, and merge "Desktop Effects" with "Beryl Manager" in FC7? > > Dear god no. Beryl is COMPLETELY INSANE. Why do you say that? In my experience, Beryl has been more stable and easier to configure than Compiz. I have not looked at the code, however. -- "Invoking the supernatural can explain anything, and hence explains nothing." - University of Utah bioengineering professor Gregory Clark From sundaram at fedoraproject.org Fri Jan 5 16:42:31 2007 From: sundaram at fedoraproject.org (Rahul Sundaram) Date: Fri, 05 Jan 2007 22:12:31 +0530 Subject: Fedora 7 In-Reply-To: <20070105152944.GA15663@jadzia.bu.edu> References: <20070104195032.GE4693@nostromo.devel.redhat.com> <459E20D7.9020307@gmail.com> <200701050820.28298.jkeating@redhat.com> <459E5DA4.6080107@gmail.com> <20070105150153.GA13767@jadzia.bu.edu> <459E6914.3020706@fedoraproject.org> <20070105152944.GA15663@jadzia.bu.edu> Message-ID: <459E7FF7.80102@fedoraproject.org> Matthew Miller wrote: > On Fri, Jan 05, 2007 at 08:34:52PM +0530, Rahul Sundaram wrote: >>> Many of those packages are just going to need to get updated to the latest >>> versions over the network eventually. If you've got the bandwidth for >>> bittorrent, you've got the bandwidth to do a network install. >> You are making a assumption that the same person is using bittorrent and >> the installation. That's far from true. I can download using bittorrent >> and burn several thousand copies for friends who dont have network access. > > True, but in my experience, that's not the typical case. You are in a place with tons of bandwidth. I am not surprised by this thinking but please dont assume this is common scenario. I think it'd be > better to make an easy way for you to generate the DVD iso for this specific > purpose than to provide a general one which will get downloaded millions of > times by people who would have been better off with a network install. The solution to people picking the wrong choice for their purpose is good documentation and guidance with tools where applicable. The only objection I heard to putting up a DVD is mirror space but we can avoid that problem by using a different name space so mirrors would have to pull it explicitly and in bittorrent. Considering that several distributions like Debian with large ISO sets has managed to get lots of mirrors, I dont think the problem of mirror space would affect us much. We should discuss this with mirror administrators rather than assuming its a problem. Rahul From jamatos at fc.up.pt Fri Jan 5 17:02:01 2007 From: jamatos at fc.up.pt (=?utf-8?q?Jos=C3=A9_Matos?=) Date: Fri, 5 Jan 2007 17:02:01 +0000 Subject: Fedora 7 In-Reply-To: <3e4ec4600701050714w20323944r65c57cdee10d3a05@mail.gmail.com> References: <20070104195032.GE4693@nostromo.devel.redhat.com> <200701050932.06534.jamatos@fc.up.pt> <3e4ec4600701050714w20323944r65c57cdee10d3a05@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <200701051702.01307.jamatos@fc.up.pt> On Friday 05 January 2007 3:14 pm, Michael Wiktowy wrote: > Fair enough. Like I said, I have plenty of KApps in my Gnome menu and > like them so I was basing my thoughts on observation from the outside > of both camps. I am glad that there are efforts to make both desktop > apps work together and not drive them apart. In the end, having things > Just Work (TM) is what is best for the end user. I agree and I applaud the effort make by the different teams under freedesktops.org umbrella. It is not easy but we are the winners in the end. :-) > /Mike -- Jos? Ab?lio From alan at clueserver.org Fri Jan 5 17:02:59 2007 From: alan at clueserver.org (alan) Date: Fri, 5 Jan 2007 09:02:59 -0800 (PST) Subject: Fedora Core 7 - Compiz vs Beryl In-Reply-To: <1167987945.3323.7.camel@localhost> References: <20070104212706.44899.qmail@web52412.mail.yahoo.com> <1167957394.2172.46.camel@dragon.valuecommerce.ne.jp> <1167970824.8614.2.camel@aurora.localdomain> <1167987945.3323.7.camel@localhost> Message-ID: On Fri, 5 Jan 2007, Peter Gordon wrote: > On Thu, 2007-01-04 at 21:20 -0700, Trever L. Adams wrote: >> And as of the last version, compiz had a horrid configuration (read >> almost none) for the different plugins, etc. > > Nearly if not all of it is through GConf. While no graphical preferences > capplet or similar exists for it yet, the keys are listed in detail in > gconf-editor and modifying them gets you the results you need/want. Saying it is in gconf is like saying to a Windows user that "You can just make changes in the registry to configure it". It is a non-obvious configuration option. >> That needs to be fixed. I like the GREAT configurability of Beryl. > > That configurability comes at the cost of a disastrous UI and many cases > of Not-Invented-Here syndrome (using flat files for storage instead of > GConf, using its own themes instead of those of Metacity/Cairo/GTK, et. > al). That, and the fact that the people of Beryl is purportedly much > less strict about the quality and consistency of code accepted. I am not certain why gconf is a "better" solution. It makes moving users from one version to another difficult. (More than once, I have had all the configuration data tied up in the gconf blob. Not easy to say "pull all the configuation for app x".) Gconf is just repeating the mistakes of the Windows registry without the extra obfuscation of uid keys. Compiz themes are different from Metacity themes. They just added to them. As for the code quality, I have not investigated that (yet). I do know that I have been able to get Beryl to work consistantly. With Compiz, I am lucky to get the window decorations to come up most of the time. > I've got three words for that: No thank you. To each his own. I would prefer to see both. But looking at both projects, the interesting and fun stuff all seems to be going on in Beryl, not in Compiz. -- "Invoking the supernatural can explain anything, and hence explains nothing." - University of Utah bioengineering professor Gregory Clark From fedora at leemhuis.info Fri Jan 5 17:09:09 2007 From: fedora at leemhuis.info (Thorsten Leemhuis) Date: Fri, 05 Jan 2007 18:09:09 +0100 Subject: Fedora Desktop vs. Fedora Desktop {GNOME, KDE} In-Reply-To: References: <20070104195032.GE4693@nostromo.devel.redhat.com> <200701041613.50625.jkeating@redhat.com> <459D702A.8050705@fedoraproject.org> <459DF655.9070203@leemhuis.info> Message-ID: <459E8635.6010200@leemhuis.info> Rex Dieter schrieb: > Thorsten Leemhuis wrote: >> On 04.01.2007 22:22, Rahul Sundaram wrote: >>> It would be consistent to have something like >>> Fedora Desktop (GNOME edition) and >>> Fedora Desktop (KDE edition) >>> It's confusing and discriminatory to call one of the spins as the >>> desktop when you have more (which is likely to increase) than one >>> desktop oriented spins. >> +1 from me to this as a long term Gnome user that's not much interested >> in KDE; but I know others are. >> >> This issue brings up a interesting question: Which board has the power >> to influence and adjust this particular naming scheme in our new >> "merged" world? FESCo or the Fedora Board? > Sounds like the consensus (so far) is the Board. BTW, in case it wasn't clear from my other mails: I actually agree that the Boards is the best place for this sort of decision, as it's more a political "big picture" thing. Nevertheless I think it's FESCo (or better: it not yet defined successor) job to work out the details (maybe in a FESCo-distribution-sub-committee) and present it to the Boards to get an ACK from it. > You can now count 2 Board > members (Rahul and me) for being in favor of this. (: thx. Cu thl From mike at mommabears.com Fri Jan 5 17:08:04 2007 From: mike at mommabears.com (MJang) Date: Fri, 05 Jan 2007 09:08:04 -0800 Subject: Fedora 7 In-Reply-To: <20070105153051.GB15663@jadzia.bu.edu> References: <20070104195032.GE4693@nostromo.devel.redhat.com> <459E20D7.9020307@gmail.com> <200701050820.28298.jkeating@redhat.com> <459E5DA4.6080107@gmail.com> <20070105150153.GA13767@jadzia.bu.edu> <20070105152036.GC802909@hiwaay.net> <20070105153051.GB15663@jadzia.bu.edu> Message-ID: <1168016884.8738.3.camel@localhost> Folks, Perhaps I missed it - now that "Core" is being dropped, does that mean that trademark issues with the original open source Fedora project (www.fedora.info) have now been resolved? Thanks, Mike From sundaram at fedoraproject.org Fri Jan 5 17:11:42 2007 From: sundaram at fedoraproject.org (Rahul Sundaram) Date: Fri, 05 Jan 2007 22:41:42 +0530 Subject: Fedora Core 7 - Compiz vs Beryl In-Reply-To: References: <20070104212706.44899.qmail@web52412.mail.yahoo.com> <1167957394.2172.46.camel@dragon.valuecommerce.ne.jp> <1167970824.8614.2.camel@aurora.localdomain> <1167987945.3323.7.camel@localhost> Message-ID: <459E86CE.3080405@fedoraproject.org> alan wrote: > To each his own. I would prefer to see both. But looking at both > projects, the interesting and fun stuff all seems to be going on in > Beryl, not in Compiz. We *already* have both. Beryl is in Fedora Extras currently. With the merge in place, the only argument is what should be the default and here is where code quality does matter. Rahul From fedora at leemhuis.info Fri Jan 5 17:19:20 2007 From: fedora at leemhuis.info (Thorsten Leemhuis) Date: Fri, 05 Jan 2007 18:19:20 +0100 Subject: Fedora 7 In-Reply-To: <459E7FF7.80102@fedoraproject.org> References: <20070104195032.GE4693@nostromo.devel.redhat.com> <459E20D7.9020307@gmail.com> <200701050820.28298.jkeating@redhat.com> <459E5DA4.6080107@gmail.com> <20070105150153.GA13767@jadzia.bu.edu> <459E6914.3020706@fedoraproject.org> <20070105152944.GA15663@jadzia.bu.edu> <459E7FF7.80102@fedoraproject.org> Message-ID: <459E8898.1020102@leemhuis.info> Rahul Sundaram schrieb: > > The solution to people picking the wrong choice for their purpose is > good documentation and guidance with tools where applicable. The only > objection I heard to putting up a DVD is mirror space but we can avoid > that problem by using a different name space so mirrors would have to > pull it explicitly and in bittorrent. Considering that several > distributions like Debian with large ISO sets has managed to get lots of > mirrors, I dont think the problem of mirror space would affect us much. > We should discuss this with mirror administrators rather than assuming > its a problem. What I'd like to see is some sort of yum-proxy to save bandwidth for users. E.g. let some sort of yum-procy run on a local network server; fill it's cache with what you have already from the distribution cd; clients connect to the proxy; if the package is in the cache send it back; otherwise download it from the web, send it over, and put it in the cache; now and then check if a package is still in the upstream repos; if not, drop it from the cache. I don't think something like that exists for yum. Or did I miss that? Debian has something similar iirc -- ohh boy, I should learn python properly and implement above proxy myself... CU thl From chitlesh at fedoraproject.org Fri Jan 5 17:20:45 2007 From: chitlesh at fedoraproject.org (Chitlesh GOORAH) Date: Fri, 5 Jan 2007 18:20:45 +0100 Subject: Fedora Core 7 - Compiz vs Beryl In-Reply-To: <459E86CE.3080405@fedoraproject.org> References: <20070104212706.44899.qmail@web52412.mail.yahoo.com> <1167957394.2172.46.camel@dragon.valuecommerce.ne.jp> <1167970824.8614.2.camel@aurora.localdomain> <1167987945.3323.7.camel@localhost> <459E86CE.3080405@fedoraproject.org> Message-ID: <13dbfe4f0701050920o6c5a7d96g5dc78b584b5fe315@mail.gmail.com> On 1/5/07, Rahul Sundaram wrote: > We *already* have both. Beryl is in Fedora Extras currently. With the > merge in place, the only argument is what should be the default and here > is where code quality does matter. And fedora packager reponse quality as well ! -- http://clunixchit.blogspot.com From clumens at redhat.com Fri Jan 5 17:29:06 2007 From: clumens at redhat.com (Chris Lumens) Date: Fri, 5 Jan 2007 12:29:06 -0500 Subject: Fedora 7 In-Reply-To: <1167962701.3290.28.camel@mteixeira.homelinux.net> References: <20070104195032.GE4693@nostromo.devel.redhat.com> <1167962701.3290.28.camel@mteixeira.homelinux.net> Message-ID: <20070105172906.GM1043@exeter.boston.redhat.com> > #2 - Improving the system-config-securitylevel. This I need to split in > two: I maintain s-c-securitylevel, so I'll address this. > #2.1 - The current way of setting up firewall rules is excessively > simple, and makes it very difficult to have simple things like internet > connection sharing for a home network. It would be very cool to have the > ability to configure a simple 1:N NAT and some port redirection. These sorts of features would be handy, I agree. If they can be simple one checkbox sorts of things, that's even better. Getting into the port redirection stuff takes s-c-securitylevel down a path I don't think we want to go, though. It's my understanding that it's never been developed as the be-all firewall configuration tool that does everything you'd want to do. I certainly have not maintained it as such. A checkbox for enabling NAT would be decent, but I don't know how much farther beyond that I want to go. > #2.2 - The local firewall has no logging feature. It's quite difficult > for a user/home admin to know why something is not working if you don't > have any kind of logs about what is being dropped because of the > firewall blocking. Probably having logging enabled by default could be > just overkill (most end-users won't care about it), but having a way to > enable/configure logging would help those people a lot. I have an open bug about this (151647 - it's fairly old at this point) but have never gotten around to working on it since I didn't see it as a huge feature. Of course, I can go in and add it if there's that much demand. I can see it being useful for debugging firewalls. The trick with both of these features is to add them without making the UI a nightmare to use and maintain. Maybe I should spend a while thinking about how to do it. Two things I want to do in s-c-securitylevel (and if I ever get done reworking pykickstart, I'll get these in for 7) are: (1) Rewrite lokkit in Python. I can hack C but I'm slower at it and I don't see it as particularly well suited to this sort of program, especially with the goofy newt stuff. (2) Make s-c-securitylevel not destroy any customizations you make by hand. I think this is the biggest problem affecting the program right now and if I can come up with a good way to deal with it, I'll put the fix in right away. There's an open bug for this - 138143. - Chris From sundaram at fedoraproject.org Fri Jan 5 17:26:03 2007 From: sundaram at fedoraproject.org (Rahul Sundaram) Date: Fri, 05 Jan 2007 22:56:03 +0530 Subject: Fedora 7 In-Reply-To: <459E8898.1020102@leemhuis.info> References: <20070104195032.GE4693@nostromo.devel.redhat.com> <459E20D7.9020307@gmail.com> <200701050820.28298.jkeating@redhat.com> <459E5DA4.6080107@gmail.com> <20070105150153.GA13767@jadzia.bu.edu> <459E6914.3020706@fedoraproject.org> <20070105152944.GA15663@jadzia.bu.edu> <459E7FF7.80102@fedoraproject.org> <459E8898.1020102@leemhuis.info> Message-ID: <459E8A2B.70207@fedoraproject.org> Thorsten Leemhuis wrote: > Rahul Sundaram schrieb: >> The solution to people picking the wrong choice for their purpose is >> good documentation and guidance with tools where applicable. The only >> objection I heard to putting up a DVD is mirror space but we can avoid >> that problem by using a different name space so mirrors would have to >> pull it explicitly and in bittorrent. Considering that several >> distributions like Debian with large ISO sets has managed to get lots of >> mirrors, I dont think the problem of mirror space would affect us much. >> We should discuss this with mirror administrators rather than assuming >> its a problem. > > What I'd like to see is some sort of yum-proxy to save bandwidth for > users. E.g. let some sort of yum-procy run on a local network server; > fill it's cache with what you have already from the distribution cd; > clients connect to the proxy; if the package is in the cache send it > back; otherwise download it from the web, send it over, and put it in > the cache; now and then check if a package is still in the upstream > repos; if not, drop it from the cache. > > I don't think something like that exists for yum. Or did I miss that? > Debian has something similar iirc -- ohh boy, I should learn python > properly and implement above proxy myself... Have you looked at mrepo? http://dag.wieers.com/home-made/mrepo/ Rahul From sundaram at fedoraproject.org Fri Jan 5 17:28:31 2007 From: sundaram at fedoraproject.org (Rahul Sundaram) Date: Fri, 05 Jan 2007 22:58:31 +0530 Subject: Fedora Core 7 - Compiz vs Beryl In-Reply-To: <13dbfe4f0701050920o6c5a7d96g5dc78b584b5fe315@mail.gmail.com> References: <20070104212706.44899.qmail@web52412.mail.yahoo.com> <1167957394.2172.46.camel@dragon.valuecommerce.ne.jp> <1167970824.8614.2.camel@aurora.localdomain> <1167987945.3323.7.camel@localhost> <459E86CE.3080405@fedoraproject.org> <13dbfe4f0701050920o6c5a7d96g5dc78b584b5fe315@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <459E8ABF.5080008@fedoraproject.org> Chitlesh GOORAH wrote: > On 1/5/07, Rahul Sundaram wrote: > >> We *already* have both. Beryl is in Fedora Extras currently. With the >> merge in place, the only argument is what should be the default and here >> is where code quality does matter. > > And fedora packager reponse quality as well ! We cant change defaults just because the package maintainers within Fedora dont respond. The solution to that is to post to this list with bug reports to check on progress if there is none for a unreasonable amount of time. This is one of the reasons why I have been advocating weekly irc development meetings. Raise the issue there and solving it should make it more transparent. Rahul. From overholt at redhat.com Fri Jan 5 17:21:35 2007 From: overholt at redhat.com (Andrew Overholt) Date: Fri, 5 Jan 2007 12:21:35 -0500 Subject: Fedora 7 In-Reply-To: <20070104225630.GC2578@free.fr> References: <20070104195032.GE4693@nostromo.devel.redhat.com> <20070104225630.GC2578@free.fr> Message-ID: <20070105172135.GA16497@redhat.com> * Patrice Dumas [2007-01-04 18:01]: > On Thu, Jan 04, 2007 at 02:50:32PM -0500, Bill Nottingham wrote: > > > > And, what would a release be without features. We've identified > > 28 features that we'd like to include in the release, available > > at http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Releases/7/Features: > > It seemed to me that java 1.5 was also planned for fc7. Is it right? On a somewhat related note, we put the Eclipse plans for F7 here: http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/F7EclipsePlans I've added the category to make it appear on the above page. Andrew -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 189 bytes Desc: not available URL: From jwboyer at jdub.homelinux.org Fri Jan 5 17:40:50 2007 From: jwboyer at jdub.homelinux.org (Josh Boyer) Date: Fri, 05 Jan 2007 11:40:50 -0600 Subject: Fedora Core 7 - Compiz vs Beryl In-Reply-To: <459E8ABF.5080008@fedoraproject.org> References: <20070104212706.44899.qmail@web52412.mail.yahoo.com> <1167957394.2172.46.camel@dragon.valuecommerce.ne.jp> <1167970824.8614.2.camel@aurora.localdomain> <1167987945.3323.7.camel@localhost> <459E86CE.3080405@fedoraproject.org> <13dbfe4f0701050920o6c5a7d96g5dc78b584b5fe315@mail.gmail.com> <459E8ABF.5080008@fedoraproject.org> Message-ID: <1168018850.3836.130.camel@zod.rchland.ibm.com> On Fri, 2007-01-05 at 22:58 +0530, Rahul Sundaram wrote: > Chitlesh GOORAH wrote: > > On 1/5/07, Rahul Sundaram wrote: > > > >> We *already* have both. Beryl is in Fedora Extras currently. With the > >> merge in place, the only argument is what should be the default and here > >> is where code quality does matter. > > > > And fedora packager reponse quality as well ! > > We cant change defaults just because the package maintainers within > Fedora dont respond. The solution to that is to post to this list with > bug reports to check on progress if there is none for a unreasonable > amount of time. This is one of the reasons why I have been advocating > weekly irc development meetings. Raise the issue there and solving it > should make it more transparent. Careful. There's lots of bugs that could pop up like that. Without some kind of "importance" system, you'll get lots of noise. For example, I have a vim bug opened long ago that has just sat there. Is it critical? No. Is it damn annoying? Yes. "Unreasonable amount of time" is subjective. josh From sundaram at fedoraproject.org Fri Jan 5 17:40:51 2007 From: sundaram at fedoraproject.org (Rahul Sundaram) Date: Fri, 05 Jan 2007 23:10:51 +0530 Subject: Fedora Core 7 - Compiz vs Beryl In-Reply-To: <1168018850.3836.130.camel@zod.rchland.ibm.com> References: <20070104212706.44899.qmail@web52412.mail.yahoo.com> <1167957394.2172.46.camel@dragon.valuecommerce.ne.jp> <1167970824.8614.2.camel@aurora.localdomain> <1167987945.3323.7.camel@localhost> <459E86CE.3080405@fedoraproject.org> <13dbfe4f0701050920o6c5a7d96g5dc78b584b5fe315@mail.gmail.com> <459E8ABF.5080008@fedoraproject.org> <1168018850.3836.130.camel@zod.rchland.ibm.com> Message-ID: <459E8DA3.4070901@fedoraproject.org> Josh Boyer wrote: > Careful. There's lots of bugs that could pop up like that. Without > some kind of "importance" system, you'll get lots of noise. For > example, I have a vim bug opened long ago that has just sat there. Is > it critical? No. Is it damn annoying? Yes. > > "Unreasonable amount of time" is subjective. Yes. I wasnt trying to define policy but one clearly documenting what someone can do if a "critical" bug report gets ignored for a "unreasonable" amount of time for good defined values of critical and unreasonable would be useful to have. Rahul From jkeating at redhat.com Fri Jan 5 18:04:47 2007 From: jkeating at redhat.com (Jesse Keating) Date: Fri, 5 Jan 2007 13:04:47 -0500 Subject: Fedora 7 In-Reply-To: <20070105172135.GA16497@redhat.com> References: <20070104195032.GE4693@nostromo.devel.redhat.com> <20070104225630.GC2578@free.fr> <20070105172135.GA16497@redhat.com> Message-ID: <200701051304.47703.jkeating@redhat.com> On Friday 05 January 2007 12:21, Andrew Overholt wrote: > On a somewhat related note, we put the Eclipse plans for F7 here: > > http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/F7EclipsePlans > > I've added the category to make it appear on the above page. Can the n-v-r be fixed to adhere to the guidelines sooner rather than later? (: -- Jesse Keating Release Engineer: Fedora -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 189 bytes Desc: not available URL: From alan at clueserver.org Fri Jan 5 18:40:23 2007 From: alan at clueserver.org (alan) Date: Fri, 5 Jan 2007 10:40:23 -0800 (PST) Subject: Fedora Core 7 - Compiz vs Beryl In-Reply-To: <1168018850.3836.130.camel@zod.rchland.ibm.com> References: <20070104212706.44899.qmail@web52412.mail.yahoo.com> <1167957394.2172.46.camel@dragon.valuecommerce.ne.jp> <1167970824.8614.2.camel@aurora.localdomain> <1167987945.3323.7.camel@localhost> <459E86CE.3080405@fedoraproject.org> <13dbfe4f0701050920o6c5a7d96g5dc78b584b5fe315@mail.gmail.com> <459E8ABF.5080008@fedoraproject.org> <1168018850.3836.130.camel@zod.rchland.ibm.com> Message-ID: On Fri, 5 Jan 2007, Josh Boyer wrote: > On Fri, 2007-01-05 at 22:58 +0530, Rahul Sundaram wrote: >> Chitlesh GOORAH wrote: >>> On 1/5/07, Rahul Sundaram wrote: >>> >>>> We *already* have both. Beryl is in Fedora Extras currently. With the >>>> merge in place, the only argument is what should be the default and here >>>> is where code quality does matter. >>> >>> And fedora packager reponse quality as well ! >> >> We cant change defaults just because the package maintainers within >> Fedora dont respond. The solution to that is to post to this list with >> bug reports to check on progress if there is none for a unreasonable >> amount of time. This is one of the reasons why I have been advocating >> weekly irc development meetings. Raise the issue there and solving it >> should make it more transparent. > > Careful. There's lots of bugs that could pop up like that. Without > some kind of "importance" system, you'll get lots of noise. For > example, I have a vim bug opened long ago that has just sat there. Is > it critical? No. Is it damn annoying? Yes. > > "Unreasonable amount of time" is subjective. I have had bugs sit in bugzilla for *years* without any attention. Some bugs seem to get orphaned or assigned to dead people or something and no follow-up is ever performed. Maybe we need a report that shows the open bugs that have been sitting without update for more than 30/60/90 days. -- "Invoking the supernatural can explain anything, and hence explains nothing." - University of Utah bioengineering professor Gregory Clark From vonbrand at inf.utfsm.cl Fri Jan 5 18:52:13 2007 From: vonbrand at inf.utfsm.cl (Horst H. von Brand) Date: Fri, 05 Jan 2007 15:52:13 -0300 Subject: Fedora Core 7 - Compiz vs Beryl In-Reply-To: Your message of "Fri, 05 Jan 2007 10:40:23 -0800." Message-ID: <200701051852.l05IqDD0010252@laptop13.inf.utfsm.cl> alan wrote: > On Fri, 5 Jan 2007, Josh Boyer wrote: [...] > > Careful. There's lots of bugs that could pop up like that. Without > > some kind of "importance" system, you'll get lots of noise. For > > example, I have a vim bug opened long ago that has just sat there. Is > > it critical? No. Is it damn annoying? Yes. > > > > "Unreasonable amount of time" is subjective. > I have had bugs sit in bugzilla for *years* without any attention. > Some bugs seem to get orphaned or assigned to dead people or something > and no follow-up is ever performed. So? Low-impact bugs, bugs in little used packages, ... just won't get the attention a security problem in the kernel gets. I've got 22 open bugs currently, some of them might sit there for many years and make no (or almost no) difference to anybody (else). > Maybe we need a report that shows the open bugs that have been sitting > without update for more than 30/60/90 days. That is not enough, too much noise. -- Dr. Horst H. von Brand User #22616 counter.li.org Departamento de Informatica Fono: +56 32 2654431 Universidad Tecnica Federico Santa Maria +56 32 2654239 Casilla 110-V, Valparaiso, Chile Fax: +56 32 2797513 From notting at redhat.com Fri Jan 5 19:00:06 2007 From: notting at redhat.com (Bill Nottingham) Date: Fri, 5 Jan 2007 14:00:06 -0500 Subject: Fedora Core 7 - Compiz vs Beryl In-Reply-To: References: <20070104212706.44899.qmail@web52412.mail.yahoo.com> <20070104235210.GA9781@nostromo.devel.redhat.com> Message-ID: <20070105190005.GB22204@nostromo.devel.redhat.com> alan (alan at clueserver.org) said: > >Dear god no. Beryl is COMPLETELY INSANE. > > Why do you say that? In my experience, Beryl has been more stable and > easier to configure than Compiz. I have not looked at the code, however. beryl-settings. [ ] slowness fix Toggle this option if beryl is slow or choppy. On some cards, enabling it makes beryl smoother, and on others disabling makes beryl smoother. The applet. Has an option to 'force nvidia, aiglx, or xgl'. That was after playing for less than a minute. So... maybe if all the UI bits were taken out and shot. :) Bill From fedora at leemhuis.info Fri Jan 5 19:02:40 2007 From: fedora at leemhuis.info (Thorsten Leemhuis) Date: Fri, 05 Jan 2007 20:02:40 +0100 Subject: Fedora Core 7 - Compiz vs Beryl In-Reply-To: References: <20070104212706.44899.qmail@web52412.mail.yahoo.com> <1167957394.2172.46.camel@dragon.valuecommerce.ne.jp> <1167970824.8614.2.camel@aurora.localdomain> <1167987945.3323.7.camel@localhost> <459E86CE.3080405@fedoraproject.org> <13dbfe4f0701050920o6c5a7d96g5dc78b584b5fe315@mail.gmail.com> <459E8ABF.5080008@fedoraproject.org> <1168018850.3836.130.camel@zod.rchland.ibm.com> Message-ID: <459EA0D0.1070605@leemhuis.info> alan schrieb: > > Maybe we need a report that shows the open bugs that have been sitting > without update for more than 30/60/90 days. Extras has something like this already: http://www.fedoraproject.org/wiki/Extras/PackageStatus#head-6ebf09953da14bdd17d75280dba5b4cffb941077-6 CU thl From notting at redhat.com Fri Jan 5 19:05:56 2007 From: notting at redhat.com (Bill Nottingham) Date: Fri, 5 Jan 2007 14:05:56 -0500 Subject: Fedora 7 In-Reply-To: <58436.192.54.193.51.1167988696.squirrel@rousalka.dyndns.org> References: <20070104195032.GE4693@nostromo.devel.redhat.com> <20070104205645.GA6194@hurricane.linuxnetz.de> <1167948109.21968.3.camel@rousalka.dyndns.org> <20070105024131.GI10665@nostromo.devel.redhat.com> <58436.192.54.193.51.1167988696.squirrel@rousalka.dyndns.org> Message-ID: <20070105190556.GC22204@nostromo.devel.redhat.com> Nicolas Mailhot (nicolas.mailhot at laposte.net) said: > We need to know what version of the main distro browser needs to be beaten > into shape. Judging by the published schedules, both XULRuner and FF3 aren't going to make it for F7. Bill From dcbw at redhat.com Fri Jan 5 19:10:32 2007 From: dcbw at redhat.com (Dan Williams) Date: Fri, 05 Jan 2007 14:10:32 -0500 Subject: Fedora Core 7 - Compiz vs Beryl In-Reply-To: <20070105190005.GB22204@nostromo.devel.redhat.com> References: <20070104212706.44899.qmail@web52412.mail.yahoo.com> <20070104235210.GA9781@nostromo.devel.redhat.com> <20070105190005.GB22204@nostromo.devel.redhat.com> Message-ID: <1168024232.6441.9.camel@wireless-62.media.mit.edu> On Fri, 2007-01-05 at 14:00 -0500, Bill Nottingham wrote: > alan (alan at clueserver.org) said: > > >Dear god no. Beryl is COMPLETELY INSANE. > > > > Why do you say that? In my experience, Beryl has been more stable and > > easier to configure than Compiz. I have not looked at the code, however. > > beryl-settings. > > [ ] slowness fix > > Toggle this option if beryl is slow or choppy. On some cards, enabling > it makes beryl smoother, and on others disabling makes beryl smoother. Haha, that's just plain laziness. They need to figure out what the problem is, and fix it, or else figure out how to auto-detect which setting works for which cards. And lazy programmers are not what we need. The last thing you ask users to do is start toggling various random settings in the hope that it makes a problem go away, without a clear idea of _why_ the setting makes a difference. Go beryl. Dan > The applet. > > Has an option to 'force nvidia, aiglx, or xgl'. > > That was after playing for less than a minute. > > So... maybe if all the UI bits were taken out and shot. :) > > Bill > From notting at redhat.com Fri Jan 5 19:07:13 2007 From: notting at redhat.com (Bill Nottingham) Date: Fri, 5 Jan 2007 14:07:13 -0500 Subject: Fedora 7 (TeTeX) In-Reply-To: <1168001270.4498.16.camel@redhat.usu> References: <20070104195032.GE4693@nostromo.devel.redhat.com> <459D6E03.5030702@di.uminho.pt> <459D6DDB.6050102@fedoraproject.org> <20070105025437.GM10665@nostromo.devel.redhat.com> <1168001270.4498.16.camel@redhat.usu> Message-ID: <20070105190713.GD22204@nostromo.devel.redhat.com> Jindrich Novy (jnovy at redhat.com) said: > > What needs to happen is that someone needs to Step Up and claim > > repsonsibility for these things with a plan for fixing them (on > > fedora-devel-list, and then on the wiki). I'm perfectly willing > > to add features to the list, but we need people who are going > > to be accountable for them. > > Please do. Feel free to add the Releases/FeatureTexLive to the list of > features for F7 assigning me there as an owner, with "Needs done by: > Test2". *cough* It's a wiki. :) Bill From peter at thecodergeek.com Fri Jan 5 19:08:36 2007 From: peter at thecodergeek.com (Peter Gordon) Date: Fri, 05 Jan 2007 11:08:36 -0800 Subject: Fedora Core 7 - Compiz vs Beryl In-Reply-To: References: <20070104212706.44899.qmail@web52412.mail.yahoo.com> <1167957394.2172.46.camel@dragon.valuecommerce.ne.jp> <1167970824.8614.2.camel@aurora.localdomain> <1167987945.3323.7.camel@localhost> Message-ID: <1168024116.3318.25.camel@localhost> On Fri, 2007-01-05 at 09:02 -0800, alan wrote: > On Fri, 5 Jan 2007, Peter Gordon wrote: > > On Thu, 2007-01-04 at 21:20 -0700, Trever L. Adams wrote: > >> And as of the last version, compiz had a horrid configuration (read > >> almost none) for the different plugins, etc. > > Saying it is in gconf is like saying to a Windows user that "You can just > make changes in the registry to configure it". It is a non-obvious > configuration option. It may be non-obvious, but it is there; and it allows you to change virtually any aspect of Compiz's behaviour and/or appearance. This is hardly "almost none" as you had stated. > I am not certain why gconf is a "better" solution. From a corporate administrative stand point it has things like lock-down and standard profile capabilities. From the standpoint of a user, it also means that the preferences are applied immediately (yay for inotify!) and for developers means that the information-manipulating code is already written; i.e., one does not need to write code to parse, read, and write file foo.cfg for various aspects and can instead simply call the various GConf library functions to read or write data in various configuration parameters. It also makes for having such code be reusable by virtually any application that needs to store configuration data. This is called encapsulation and abstraction; and it is nearly always a very good segment of one's program design. For example: Beryl might (I haven't checked the code) do a configuration algorithm such as: 1. Create a file descriptor and map it to the file ~/.config/beryl/user.cfg, opened in read-only text mode 2. Read the file contents and parse them into a configuration storage structure 3. Poll the config file every so often for changes and re-read them into that structure if there are any 4. Call wrapper functions on that structure to retrieve specific data pieces as needed Whereas with GConf it's theoretically quite a bit simpler: 1. Call gconf_client_add_dir and gconf_client_notify_add to register a callback function for when the configuration is changed. 2. Call gconf_client_get or other gconf functions as needed to retrieve a specific key 3. That's it :) Also, the GConf on-disk structure is XML, which makes it much better suited for automated manipulation tools. > It makes moving users > from one version to another difficult. (More than once, I have had all > the configuration data tied up in the gconf blob. Not easy to say "pull > all the configuation for app x".) Actually it is. The tree of gconf keys should contain a /apps/app-name/ subtree that you can pull with a simple cp or mv (the ~/.gconf/apps/app-name/ directory on-disk). > Compiz themes are different from Metacity themes. They just added to > them. Right, but work is underway in Compiz to have both it and Metacity use the same theming/rendering infrastructure, as I've read on various Planets. Does Beryl have similar intention of desktop integration? > I do know that I have been able to get Beryl to work consistantly. With > Compiz, I am lucky to get the window decorations to come up most of the > time. The fact that something works and whether or not it is functioning and designed properly are two entirely separate things. ;) -- Peter Gordon (codergeek42) GnuPG Public Key ID: 0xFFC19479 / Fingerprint: DD68 A414 56BD 6368 D957 9666 4268 CB7A FFC1 9479 My Blog: http://thecodergeek.com/blog/ -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: signature.asc Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 189 bytes Desc: This is a digitally signed message part URL: From alan at clueserver.org Fri Jan 5 19:14:54 2007 From: alan at clueserver.org (alan) Date: Fri, 5 Jan 2007 11:14:54 -0800 (PST) Subject: Fedora Core 7 - Compiz vs Beryl In-Reply-To: <459EA0D0.1070605@leemhuis.info> References: <20070104212706.44899.qmail@web52412.mail.yahoo.com> <1167957394.2172.46.camel@dragon.valuecommerce.ne.jp> <1167970824.8614.2.camel@aurora.localdomain> <1167987945.3323.7.camel@localhost> <459E86CE.3080405@fedoraproject.org> <13dbfe4f0701050920o6c5a7d96g5dc78b584b5fe315@mail.gmail.com> <459E8ABF.5080008@fedoraproject.org> <1168018850.3836.130.camel@zod.rchland.ibm.com> <459EA0D0.1070605@leemhuis.info> Message-ID: On Fri, 5 Jan 2007, Thorsten Leemhuis wrote: > alan schrieb: >> >> Maybe we need a report that shows the open bugs that have been sitting >> without update for more than 30/60/90 days. > > Extras has something like this already: > http://www.fedoraproject.org/wiki/Extras/PackageStatus#head-6ebf09953da14bdd17d75280dba5b4cffb941077-6 Maybe it needs to be extended to core. -- "Invoking the supernatural can explain anything, and hence explains nothing." - University of Utah bioengineering professor Gregory Clark From sundaram at fedoraproject.org Fri Jan 5 19:12:46 2007 From: sundaram at fedoraproject.org (Rahul Sundaram) Date: Sat, 06 Jan 2007 00:42:46 +0530 Subject: Fedora Core 7 - Compiz vs Beryl In-Reply-To: <459EA0D0.1070605@leemhuis.info> References: <20070104212706.44899.qmail@web52412.mail.yahoo.com> <1167957394.2172.46.camel@dragon.valuecommerce.ne.jp> <1167970824.8614.2.camel@aurora.localdomain> <1167987945.3323.7.camel@localhost> <459E86CE.3080405@fedoraproject.org> <13dbfe4f0701050920o6c5a7d96g5dc78b584b5fe315@mail.gmail.com> <459E8ABF.5080008@fedoraproject.org> <1168018850.3836.130.camel@zod.rchland.ibm.com> <459EA0D0.1070605@leemhuis.info> Message-ID: <459EA32E.8050603@fedoraproject.org> Thorsten Leemhuis wrote: > alan schrieb: >> Maybe we need a report that shows the open bugs that have been sitting >> without update for more than 30/60/90 days. > > Extras has something like this already: > http://www.fedoraproject.org/wiki/Extras/PackageStatus#head-6ebf09953da14bdd17d75280dba5b4cffb941077-6 > Same for all of Fedora in fact. See http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/FedoraTesting and the recent regular meetings logs for additional details. Of course this work is not full fledged yet and lots of details needs to be worked out. Rahul From notting at redhat.com Fri Jan 5 19:17:44 2007 From: notting at redhat.com (Bill Nottingham) Date: Fri, 5 Jan 2007 14:17:44 -0500 Subject: Fedora 7 In-Reply-To: <459E8898.1020102@leemhuis.info> References: <20070104195032.GE4693@nostromo.devel.redhat.com> <459E20D7.9020307@gmail.com> <200701050820.28298.jkeating@redhat.com> <459E5DA4.6080107@gmail.com> <20070105150153.GA13767@jadzia.bu.edu> <459E6914.3020706@fedoraproject.org> <20070105152944.GA15663@jadzia.bu.edu> <459E7FF7.80102@fedoraproject.org> <459E8898.1020102@leemhuis.info> Message-ID: <20070105191744.GE22204@nostromo.devel.redhat.com> Thorsten Leemhuis (fedora at leemhuis.info) said: > What I'd like to see is some sort of yum-proxy to save bandwidth for > users. E.g. let some sort of yum-procy run on a local network server; > fill it's cache with what you have already from the distribution cd; > clients connect to the proxy; if the package is in the cache send it > back; otherwise download it from the web, send it over, and put it in > the cache; now and then check if a package is still in the upstream > repos; if not, drop it from the cache. > > I don't think something like that exists for yum. Or did I miss that? > Debian has something similar iirc -- ohh boy, I should learn python > properly and implement above proxy myself... Well, you *could* just do this with any specially configured web cache. Bill From jwboyer at jdub.homelinux.org Fri Jan 5 19:19:48 2007 From: jwboyer at jdub.homelinux.org (Josh Boyer) Date: Fri, 05 Jan 2007 13:19:48 -0600 Subject: Fedora Core 7 - Compiz vs Beryl In-Reply-To: References: <20070104212706.44899.qmail@web52412.mail.yahoo.com> <1167957394.2172.46.camel@dragon.valuecommerce.ne.jp> <1167970824.8614.2.camel@aurora.localdomain> <1167987945.3323.7.camel@localhost> <459E86CE.3080405@fedoraproject.org> <13dbfe4f0701050920o6c5a7d96g5dc78b584b5fe315@mail.gmail.com> <459E8ABF.5080008@fedoraproject.org> <1168018850.3836.130.camel@zod.rchland.ibm.com> <459EA0D0.1070605@leemhuis.info> Message-ID: <1168024788.3836.154.camel@zod.rchland.ibm.com> On Fri, 2007-01-05 at 11:14 -0800, alan wrote: > On Fri, 5 Jan 2007, Thorsten Leemhuis wrote: > > > alan schrieb: > >> > >> Maybe we need a report that shows the open bugs that have been sitting > >> without update for more than 30/60/90 days. > > > > Extras has something like this already: > > http://www.fedoraproject.org/wiki/Extras/PackageStatus#head-6ebf09953da14bdd17d75280dba5b4cffb941077-6 > > Maybe it needs to be extended to core. There soon won't be core. Perhaps you meant it should be continued with the merged repo. josh From davej at redhat.com Fri Jan 5 19:21:01 2007 From: davej at redhat.com (Dave Jones) Date: Fri, 5 Jan 2007 14:21:01 -0500 Subject: Fedora Core 7 - Compiz vs Beryl In-Reply-To: References: <20070104212706.44899.qmail@web52412.mail.yahoo.com> <1167957394.2172.46.camel@dragon.valuecommerce.ne.jp> <1167970824.8614.2.camel@aurora.localdomain> <1167987945.3323.7.camel@localhost> <459E86CE.3080405@fedoraproject.org> <13dbfe4f0701050920o6c5a7d96g5dc78b584b5fe315@mail.gmail.com> <459E8ABF.5080008@fedoraproject.org> <1168018850.3836.130.camel@zod.rchland.ibm.com> Message-ID: <20070105192101.GA5592@redhat.com> On Fri, Jan 05, 2007 at 10:40:23AM -0800, alan wrote: > > Careful. There's lots of bugs that could pop up like that. Without > > some kind of "importance" system, you'll get lots of noise. For > > example, I have a vim bug opened long ago that has just sat there. Is > > it critical? No. Is it damn annoying? Yes. > > > > "Unreasonable amount of time" is subjective. > > I have had bugs sit in bugzilla for *years* without any attention. Some > bugs seem to get orphaned or assigned to dead people or something and no > follow-up is ever performed. > > Maybe we need a report that shows the open bugs that have been sitting > without update for more than 30/60/90 days. Some package owners are just way, way overloaded. Recieving more email telling me I'm not looking at bugs isn't going to make me look at more bugs any more than dealing with dozens of "Is anyone looking at my bug?" bugmails. Typically kernel bugs get dealt with by severity (and I don't mean the severity pulldown in bugzilla -- having that user-visible is the worst idea ever). Low hanging fruit gets fixed up pretty quick too if I spot it, but there's so many bugs, there's just not enough hours in the day to give them all equal attention. Dave -- http://www.codemonkey.org.uk From vonbrand at inf.utfsm.cl Fri Jan 5 19:23:42 2007 From: vonbrand at inf.utfsm.cl (Horst H. von Brand) Date: Fri, 05 Jan 2007 16:23:42 -0300 Subject: Fedora 7 In-Reply-To: Your message of "Fri, 05 Jan 2007 10:01:53 CDT." <20070105150153.GA13767@jadzia.bu.edu> Message-ID: <200701051923.l05JNgWs010814@laptop13.inf.utfsm.cl> Matthew Miller wrote: > On Fri, Jan 05, 2007 at 03:16:04PM +0100, dragoran wrote: > > so we need a everything DVD "Fedora 7 Complete" > > mirros can have the iso file and loopback mount it to get the "normal > > tree" saving diskspace. but I doubt that many mirror will do it. > > we could also ship it only over bittorent. > Many of those packages are just going to need to get updated to the latest > versions over the network eventually. If you've got the bandwidth for > bittorrent, Yep. > you've got the bandwidth to do a network install. Nope. It doesn't matter if getting the image(s) takes a day or so (with a half dozen network problems requiring restarting the download thrown in just for fun), it /does/ matter greatly for an install. -- Dr. Horst H. von Brand User #22616 counter.li.org Departamento de Informatica Fono: +56 32 2654431 Universidad Tecnica Federico Santa Maria +56 32 2654239 Casilla 110-V, Valparaiso, Chile Fax: +56 32 2797513 From nicolas.mailhot at laposte.net Fri Jan 5 19:42:54 2007 From: nicolas.mailhot at laposte.net (Nicolas Mailhot) Date: Fri, 05 Jan 2007 20:42:54 +0100 Subject: Fedora 7 In-Reply-To: <20070105190556.GC22204@nostromo.devel.redhat.com> References: <20070104195032.GE4693@nostromo.devel.redhat.com> <20070104205645.GA6194@hurricane.linuxnetz.de> <1167948109.21968.3.camel@rousalka.dyndns.org> <20070105024131.GI10665@nostromo.devel.redhat.com> <58436.192.54.193.51.1167988696.squirrel@rousalka.dyndns.org> <20070105190556.GC22204@nostromo.devel.redhat.com> Message-ID: <1168026174.10184.3.camel@rousalka.dyndns.org> Le vendredi 05 janvier 2007 ? 14:05 -0500, Bill Nottingham a ?crit : > Nicolas Mailhot (nicolas.mailhot at laposte.net) said: > > We need to know what version of the main distro browser needs to be beaten > > into shape. > > Judging by the published schedules, both XULRuner and FF3 aren't > going to make it for F7. Ok, time to do some bugzilla-ing I guess -- Nicolas Mailhot -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: signature.asc Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 197 bytes Desc: Ceci est une partie de message num?riquement sign?e URL: From vonbrand at inf.utfsm.cl Fri Jan 5 19:43:14 2007 From: vonbrand at inf.utfsm.cl (Horst H. von Brand) Date: Fri, 05 Jan 2007 16:43:14 -0300 Subject: Fedora 7 In-Reply-To: Your message of "Fri, 05 Jan 2007 22:56:03 +0530." <459E8A2B.70207@fedoraproject.org> Message-ID: <200701051943.l05JhE8M011061@laptop13.inf.utfsm.cl> Rahul Sundaram wrote: [...] > Have you looked at mrepo? http://dag.wieers.com/home-made/mrepo/ Interesting, but it doesn't look exactly like what was asked... I'd like to do the following: Net-installing machine #1 gets the stuff required for that install (only!) and caches it, from cache install machines #2 .. #30. Now update machine #1, cache updates (so they can be used to update #2 .. #30, or even for fresh installs of #31 .. #35). If machine #20 needs some extra package, get and cache that one. If some machine asks for a package, look if what is up to date and hand that over; if not, get the last version. Sort of local-net /var/cache/yum (with a bit smarter handling ;-). Sure, it'll need some smarts to figure out that a package is obsoleted by another (version) to free space, but this might be handled by hand. Disk space is inexpensive, international network access is limited and expensive here (and it is probably much worse elsewhere). And it is not fun downloading the same files 30 times, or mirroring 10 files that aren't used locally to get the one you'll install 30 times. -- Dr. Horst H. von Brand User #22616 counter.li.org Departamento de Informatica Fono: +56 32 2654431 Universidad Tecnica Federico Santa Maria +56 32 2654239 Casilla 110-V, Valparaiso, Chile Fax: +56 32 2797513 From ajackson at redhat.com Fri Jan 5 19:41:34 2007 From: ajackson at redhat.com (Adam Jackson) Date: Fri, 05 Jan 2007 14:41:34 -0500 Subject: Fedora Core 7 - Compiz vs Beryl In-Reply-To: <1168024232.6441.9.camel@wireless-62.media.mit.edu> References: <20070104212706.44899.qmail@web52412.mail.yahoo.com> <20070104235210.GA9781@nostromo.devel.redhat.com> <20070105190005.GB22204@nostromo.devel.redhat.com> <1168024232.6441.9.camel@wireless-62.media.mit.edu> Message-ID: <1168026094.7683.581.camel@localhost.localdomain> On Fri, 2007-01-05 at 14:10 -0500, Dan Williams wrote: > On Fri, 2007-01-05 at 14:00 -0500, Bill Nottingham wrote: > > alan (alan at clueserver.org) said: > > > >Dear god no. Beryl is COMPLETELY INSANE. > > > > > > Why do you say that? In my experience, Beryl has been more stable and > > > easier to configure than Compiz. I have not looked at the code, however. > > > > beryl-settings. > > > > [ ] slowness fix > > > > Toggle this option if beryl is slow or choppy. On some cards, enabling > > it makes beryl smoother, and on others disabling makes beryl smoother. > > Haha, that's just plain laziness. They need to figure out what the > problem is, and fix it, or else figure out how to auto-detect which > setting works for which cards. And lazy programmers are not what we > need. The last thing you ask users to do is start toggling various > random settings in the hope that it makes a problem go away, without a > clear idea of _why_ the setting makes a difference. > > Go beryl. One of the major problems I've seen with people writing GL applications for Linux is that they expect that the drivers are not fixable, and therefore they just hack around things. The people writing GL apps are, in fact, the people who can best tell us where the bugs are, and what paths need to go fast. And, in fact, Mesa is not hard (it's an absolute joy to work with compared to some closed GL implementations), and getting these things fixed in the DRI drivers is achievable by mere mortals; but because they expect that the driver is a black box, it just never happens that way. This is what closed source does to people! Given the choice between the kind of project with a Magic / More Magic switch, and the kind of project that submits fixes to the components it depends on, I'm going to go with the latter, every time. - ajax From jkeating at redhat.com Fri Jan 5 19:49:09 2007 From: jkeating at redhat.com (Jesse Keating) Date: Fri, 5 Jan 2007 14:49:09 -0500 Subject: Fedora 7 In-Reply-To: <200701051943.l05JhE8M011061@laptop13.inf.utfsm.cl> References: <200701051943.l05JhE8M011061@laptop13.inf.utfsm.cl> Message-ID: <200701051449.09781.jkeating@redhat.com> On Friday 05 January 2007 14:43, Horst H. von Brand wrote: > I'd like to do the following: Net-installing machine #1 gets the stuff > required for that install (only!) and caches it, from cache install > machines #2 .. #30. Now update machine #1, cache updates (so they can be > used to update #2 .. #30, or even for fresh installs of #31 .. #35). > If machine #20 needs some extra package, get and cache that one. If some > machine asks for a package, look if what is up to date and hand that over; > if not, get the last version. > > Sort of local-net /var/cache/yum (with a bit smarter handling ;-). Sure, > it'll need some smarts to figure out that a package is obsoleted by another > (version) to free space, but this might be handled by hand. Disk space is > inexpensive, international network access is limited and expensive here > (and it is probably much worse elsewhere). And it is not fun downloading > the same files 30 times, or mirroring 10 files that aren't used locally to > get the one you'll install 30 times. Er, how is this not possible with a sufficiently large squid caching proxy? -- Jesse Keating Release Engineer: Fedora -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 189 bytes Desc: not available URL: From nutello at sweetness.com Fri Jan 5 20:01:37 2007 From: nutello at sweetness.com (Rudi Chiarito) Date: Fri, 5 Jan 2007 21:01:37 +0100 Subject: Fedora 7 In-Reply-To: <459E8898.1020102@leemhuis.info> References: <20070104195032.GE4693@nostromo.devel.redhat.com> <459E20D7.9020307@gmail.com> <200701050820.28298.jkeating@redhat.com> <459E5DA4.6080107@gmail.com> <20070105150153.GA13767@jadzia.bu.edu> <459E6914.3020706@fedoraproject.org> <20070105152944.GA15663@jadzia.bu.edu> <459E7FF7.80102@fedoraproject.org> <459E8898.1020102@leemhuis.info> Message-ID: <20070105200137.GM28367@plain.rackshack.net> On Fri, Jan 05, 2007 at 06:19:20PM +0100, Thorsten Leemhuis wrote: > What I'd like to see is some sort of yum-proxy to save bandwidth for > users. E.g. let some sort of yum-procy run on a local network server; > fill it's cache with what you have already from the distribution cd; > clients connect to the proxy; if the package is in the cache send it > back; otherwise download it from the web, send it over, and put it in > the cache; now and then check if a package is still in the upstream > repos; if not, drop it from the cache. Even better would be the use of mDNS and DNS-SD to search for such a proxy. This way, you don't need to hardcode anything in configuration files. I don't know if yum provides enough hooks to implement such a plugin, but ideally it would look for a local proxy and fallback to the "original" repository URL if none can be found. That'd useful if you are a laptop user and only sometimes have fast local access to such a proxy. Or it would allow for graceful degradation if the proxy has died or is undergoing maintenance. Or, in a network with many systems, it can provide for load balancing, by using more than one proxy (I guess you can look at all the services discovered on the local network, not just the first one replying to your broadcast request). All you'd need to do is installing the plugin's RPM or make a convincing case for its inclusion in yum itself - not likely to happen today, but maybe in a few years the use case won't be as uncommon as it is now. Instead of a proxy, one could also use DNS-SD to implement something closer to the P2P model, where machines on a local network search for any neighbour systems that have already downloaded updates, basically sharing the yum cache. -- Rudi From vonbrand at inf.utfsm.cl Fri Jan 5 20:07:52 2007 From: vonbrand at inf.utfsm.cl (Horst H. von Brand) Date: Fri, 05 Jan 2007 17:07:52 -0300 Subject: Fedora Core 7 - Compiz vs Beryl In-Reply-To: Message from Dave Jones of "Fri, 05 Jan 2007 14:21:01 CDT." <20070105192101.GA5592@redhat.com> Message-ID: <200701052007.l05K7qSL011454@laptop13.inf.utfsm.cl> Dave Jones wrote: [...] > Some package owners are just way, way overloaded. > Recieving more email telling me I'm not looking at bugs isn't going to make > me look at more bugs any more than dealing with dozens of "Is anyone looking > at my bug?" bugmails. The way out is recuiting more package owners... is there some place where one (sh|c)ould apply? Some "overseeing newbie owners" structure in place? Some means of a package owner having a hill full of gnomes doing the footwork? [This sounds suspiciously like the drawn-out LKML fest about "Linus doesn't scale"...] -- Dr. Horst H. von Brand User #22616 counter.li.org Departamento de Informatica Fono: +56 32 2654431 Universidad Tecnica Federico Santa Maria +56 32 2654239 Casilla 110-V, Valparaiso, Chile Fax: +56 32 2797513 From dmalcolm at redhat.com Fri Jan 5 20:16:11 2007 From: dmalcolm at redhat.com (David Malcolm) Date: Fri, 05 Jan 2007 15:16:11 -0500 Subject: Fedora Core 7 - Compiz vs Beryl In-Reply-To: <1168026094.7683.581.camel@localhost.localdomain> References: <20070104212706.44899.qmail@web52412.mail.yahoo.com> <20070104235210.GA9781@nostromo.devel.redhat.com> <20070105190005.GB22204@nostromo.devel.redhat.com> <1168024232.6441.9.camel@wireless-62.media.mit.edu> <1168026094.7683.581.camel@localhost.localdomain> Message-ID: <1168028171.2832.18.camel@localhost.localdomain> On Fri, 2007-01-05 at 14:41 -0500, Adam Jackson wrote: > On Fri, 2007-01-05 at 14:10 -0500, Dan Williams wrote: > > On Fri, 2007-01-05 at 14:00 -0500, Bill Nottingham wrote: > > > alan (alan at clueserver.org) said: > > > > >Dear god no. Beryl is COMPLETELY INSANE. > > > > > > > > Why do you say that? In my experience, Beryl has been more stable and > > > > easier to configure than Compiz. I have not looked at the code, however. > > > > > > beryl-settings. > > > > > > [ ] slowness fix > > > > > > Toggle this option if beryl is slow or choppy. On some cards, enabling > > > it makes beryl smoother, and on others disabling makes beryl smoother. > > > > Haha, that's just plain laziness. They need to figure out what the > > problem is, and fix it, or else figure out how to auto-detect which > > setting works for which cards. And lazy programmers are not what we > > need. The last thing you ask users to do is start toggling various > > random settings in the hope that it makes a problem go away, without a > > clear idea of _why_ the setting makes a difference. > > > > Go beryl. > > One of the major problems I've seen with people writing GL applications > for Linux is that they expect that the drivers are not fixable, and > therefore they just hack around things. The people writing GL apps are, > in fact, the people who can best tell us where the bugs are, and what > paths need to go fast. And, in fact, Mesa is not hard (it's an absolute > joy to work with compared to some closed GL implementations), and > getting these things fixed in the DRI drivers is achievable by mere > mortals; but because they expect that the driver is a black box, it just > never happens that way. I got permanently scared off from hacking on the internals of X (and thus GL) after an afternoon of pain spent trying to deal with the monolithic build. Thanks to all the effort to modularize X, it's now _much_ more amenable to people stepping in and fixing individual drivers themselves. But I think the horror that was the old monolithic X build has scared away many potential contributors. > > This is what closed source does to people! > > Given the choice between the kind of project with a Magic / More Magic > switch, and the kind of project that submits fixes to the components it > depends on, I'm going to go with the latter, every time. From michael.wiktowy at gmail.com Fri Jan 5 20:17:17 2007 From: michael.wiktowy at gmail.com (Michael Wiktowy) Date: Fri, 5 Jan 2007 15:17:17 -0500 Subject: Fedora 7 In-Reply-To: <1168014453.3544.48.camel@wireless-62.media.mit.edu> References: <20070104195032.GE4693@nostromo.devel.redhat.com> <200701050004.23169.jkeating@redhat.com> <1167998004.3159.43.camel@vader.jdub.homelinux.org> <200701050818.54425.jkeating@redhat.com> <1168007328.3544.6.camel@wireless-62.media.mit.edu> <20070105145417.GA14720@dspnet.fr.eu.org> <1168012009.3544.42.camel@wireless-62.media.mit.edu> <459E783A.8020501@olen.net> <1168014453.3544.48.camel@wireless-62.media.mit.edu> Message-ID: <3e4ec4600701051217j42e67627l353e251cf52a6f19@mail.gmail.com> On 1/5/07, Dan Williams wrote: > On Fri, 2007-01-05 at 17:09 +0100, Ola Thoresen wrote: > > It is at least important to be able to add multiple addresses to one > > (physical) interface. > > Yep! That's obviously required. > > > I personally don't like the old eth0:0 eth0:1 (...), but prefer the new > > That format is vile. > > > iproute2 style, but I guess I can live with aliases as long as it is > > easy to add/remove them. Could someone illuminate me on the non-vile iproute2 style of doing this (give me the right jargon to Google)? Is it that you can call the aliases anything you want with a mapping/iface combo in /etc/network/interfaces? Apparently, I was being vile and didn't know it and want to reform. /Mike From notting at redhat.com Fri Jan 5 21:09:41 2007 From: notting at redhat.com (Bill Nottingham) Date: Fri, 5 Jan 2007 16:09:41 -0500 Subject: Fedora 7 In-Reply-To: <459E783A.8020501@olen.net> References: <20070104195032.GE4693@nostromo.devel.redhat.com> <200701050004.23169.jkeating@redhat.com> <1167998004.3159.43.camel@vader.jdub.homelinux.org> <200701050818.54425.jkeating@redhat.com> <1168007328.3544.6.camel@wireless-62.media.mit.edu> <20070105145417.GA14720@dspnet.fr.eu.org> <1168012009.3544.42.camel@wireless-62.media.mit.edu> <459E783A.8020501@olen.net> Message-ID: <20070105210941.GG23650@nostromo.devel.redhat.com> Ola Thoresen (redhat at olen.net) said: > It is at least important to be able to add multiple addresses to one > (physical) interface. > I personally don't like the old eth0:0 eth0:1 (...), but prefer the new > iproute2 style, but I guess I can live with aliases as long as it is > easy to add/remove them. Aliases (eth0:0) need to die. Of course, I've been saying that for years and haven't killed them yet. :/ Bill From notting at redhat.com Fri Jan 5 21:10:37 2007 From: notting at redhat.com (Bill Nottingham) Date: Fri, 5 Jan 2007 16:10:37 -0500 Subject: Fedora 7 In-Reply-To: <3e4ec4600701051217j42e67627l353e251cf52a6f19@mail.gmail.com> References: <20070104195032.GE4693@nostromo.devel.redhat.com> <200701050004.23169.jkeating@redhat.com> <1167998004.3159.43.camel@vader.jdub.homelinux.org> <200701050818.54425.jkeating@redhat.com> <1168007328.3544.6.camel@wireless-62.media.mit.edu> <20070105145417.GA14720@dspnet.fr.eu.org> <1168012009.3544.42.camel@wireless-62.media.mit.edu> <459E783A.8020501@olen.net> <1168014453.3544.48.camel@wireless-62.media.mit.edu> <3e4ec4600701051217j42e67627l353e251cf52a6f19@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <20070105211037.GH23650@nostromo.devel.redhat.com> Michael Wiktowy (michael.wiktowy at gmail.com) said: > Could someone illuminate me on the non-vile iproute2 style of doing > this (give me the right jargon to Google)? Is it that you can call the > aliases anything you want with a mapping/iface combo in > /etc/network/interfaces? > Apparently, I was being vile and didn't know it and want to reform. Just 'ip addr add dev eth0 192.168.1.1/24'. Bill From jpmahowald at gmail.com Fri Jan 5 21:37:48 2007 From: jpmahowald at gmail.com (John Mahowald) Date: Sat, 6 Jan 2007 15:37:48 +1800 Subject: Fedora Core 7 - Compiz vs Beryl In-Reply-To: <459E1940.1090504@gmail.com> References: <20070104212706.44899.qmail@web52412.mail.yahoo.com> <1167957394.2172.46.camel@dragon.valuecommerce.ne.jp> <1167970824.8614.2.camel@aurora.localdomain> <1167987945.3323.7.camel@localhost> <459E1940.1090504@gmail.com> Message-ID: <3ea997540701051337k3901882cy664aed5da47c195e@mail.gmail.com> On 1/6/07, dragoran wrote: > Peter Gordon wrote: > there is a configuration tool for compiz that comunicate with compiz > using dbus > http://www.go-compiz.org/index.php?title=Compiz-Settings > I would like to see this in extras (but requires compiz > 0.3.3) so only > devel for now Another one: http://gandalfn.wordpress.com/gnome-compiz-manager/ My package awaiting review: http://bugzilla.redhat.com/216734 From Dax at gurulabs.com Fri Jan 5 21:39:06 2007 From: Dax at gurulabs.com (Dax Kelson) Date: Fri, 05 Jan 2007 14:39:06 -0700 Subject: Fedora 7 In-Reply-To: <200701051449.09781.jkeating@redhat.com> References: <200701051943.l05JhE8M011061@laptop13.inf.utfsm.cl> <200701051449.09781.jkeating@redhat.com> Message-ID: <7904-SnapperMsg827D11E1C1C47601@[70.6.76.140]> ...... Original Message ....... On Fri, 5 Jan 2007 14:49:09 -0500 "Jesse Keating" wrote: >On Friday 05 January 2007 14:43, Horst H. von Brand wrote: >> I'd like to do the following: Net-installing machine #1 gets the stuff >> required for that install (only!) and caches it, from cache install >> machines #2 .. #30. Now update machine #1, cache updates (so they can be >> used to update #2 .. #30, or even for fresh installs of #31 .. #35). >> If machine #20 needs some extra package, get and cache that one. If some >> machine asks for a package, look if what is up to date and hand that over; >> if not, get the last version. >> >> Sort of local-net /var/cache/yum (with a bit smarter handling ;-). Sure, >> it'll need some smarts to figure out that a package is obsoleted by another >> (version) to free space, but this might be handled by hand. Disk space is >> inexpensive, international network access is limited and expensive here >> (and it is probably much worse elsewhere). And it is not fun downloading >> the same files 30 times, or mirroring 10 files that aren't used locally to >> get the one you'll install 30 times. > >Er, how is this not possible with a sufficiently large squid caching proxy? It isn't that simple. The problem is that if client1 fetches an RPM from one mirror and client2 tries to fetch the same RPM from a different mirror, no caching is done. As I recall, Squid uses the MD5 of the entire URI as the unique object identifier. You need to have all the clients fetching from the same mirror AND ideally, this should happen automatically without config change on the clients. If I bring my laptop to the office, then it should use the local network cache automatically. When I go home, it should use the mirrors like normal. I figure I can implement that at the office with DNS hijacking plus using Squid as a transparent proxy. It is on my TODO list. ___ Dax Kelson Guru Labs Sent with my Treo (please pardon any brevity) From efeldhusen.lists at gmail.com Fri Jan 5 21:49:25 2007 From: efeldhusen.lists at gmail.com (Eric J. Feldhusen) Date: Fri, 05 Jan 2007 16:49:25 -0500 Subject: Fedora 7 In-Reply-To: <20070105211037.GH23650@nostromo.devel.redhat.com> References: <20070104195032.GE4693@nostromo.devel.redhat.com> <200701050004.23169.jkeating@redhat.com> <1167998004.3159.43.camel@vader.jdub.homelinux.org> <200701050818.54425.jkeating@redhat.com> <1168007328.3544.6.camel@wireless-62.media.mit.edu> <20070105145417.GA14720@dspnet.fr.eu.org> <1168012009.3544.42.camel@wireless-62.media.mit.edu> <459E783A.8020501@olen.net> <1168014453.3544.48.camel@wireless-62.media.mit.edu> <3e4ec4600701051217j42e67627l353e251cf52a6f19@mail.gmail.com> <20070105211037.GH23650@nostromo.devel.redhat.com> Message-ID: <459EC7E5.80005@gmail.com> Bill Nottingham wrote: > Michael Wiktowy (michael.wiktowy at gmail.com) said: >> Could someone illuminate me on the non-vile iproute2 style of doing >> this (give me the right jargon to Google)? Is it that you can call the >> aliases anything you want with a mapping/iface combo in >> /etc/network/interfaces? >> Apparently, I was being vile and didn't know it and want to reform. > > Just 'ip addr add dev eth0 192.168.1.1/24'. > Not having done aliases via iproute2 shouldn't that be 192.168.1.1/32 above? -- Eric Feldhusen From denis at poolshark.org Fri Jan 5 21:50:31 2007 From: denis at poolshark.org (Denis Leroy) Date: Fri, 05 Jan 2007 22:50:31 +0100 Subject: Fedora Core 7 - Compiz vs Beryl In-Reply-To: <200701052007.l05K7qSL011454@laptop13.inf.utfsm.cl> References: <200701052007.l05K7qSL011454@laptop13.inf.utfsm.cl> Message-ID: <459EC827.8010106@poolshark.org> Horst H. von Brand wrote: > Dave Jones wrote: > > [...] > >> Some package owners are just way, way overloaded. >> Recieving more email telling me I'm not looking at bugs isn't going to make >> me look at more bugs any more than dealing with dozens of "Is anyone looking >> at my bug?" bugmails. > > The way out is recuiting more package owners... is there some place where > one (sh|c)ould apply? Some "overseeing newbie owners" structure in place? > Some means of a package owner having a hill full of gnomes doing the > footwork? A better solution in some cases is to file the bug directly upstream. Not all package maintainers have the technical skills to debug a complex problem and cough up a complex patch, a lot of times all the maintainer is doing is forwarding the bug upstream. From notting at redhat.com Fri Jan 5 21:56:05 2007 From: notting at redhat.com (Bill Nottingham) Date: Fri, 5 Jan 2007 16:56:05 -0500 Subject: Fedora 7 In-Reply-To: <459EC7E5.80005@gmail.com> References: <1167998004.3159.43.camel@vader.jdub.homelinux.org> <200701050818.54425.jkeating@redhat.com> <1168007328.3544.6.camel@wireless-62.media.mit.edu> <20070105145417.GA14720@dspnet.fr.eu.org> <1168012009.3544.42.camel@wireless-62.media.mit.edu> <459E783A.8020501@olen.net> <1168014453.3544.48.camel@wireless-62.media.mit.edu> <3e4ec4600701051217j42e67627l353e251cf52a6f19@mail.gmail.com> <20070105211037.GH23650@nostromo.devel.redhat.com> <459EC7E5.80005@gmail.com> Message-ID: <20070105215605.GA25517@nostromo.devel.redhat.com> Eric J. Feldhusen (efeldhusen.lists at gmail.com) said: > >> Apparently, I was being vile and didn't know it and want to reform. > > > > Just 'ip addr add dev eth0 192.168.1.1/24'. > > > Not having done aliases via iproute2 shouldn't that be 192.168.1.1/32 above? Well, /. Bill From Dax at gurulabs.com Fri Jan 5 22:09:34 2007 From: Dax at gurulabs.com (Dax Kelson) Date: Fri, 05 Jan 2007 15:09:34 -0700 Subject: Fedora 7 (Everything installs) In-Reply-To: <20070104195032.GE4693@nostromo.devel.redhat.com> References: <20070104195032.GE4693@nostromo.devel.redhat.com> Message-ID: <7873-SnapperMsg827D11E1C1C47D24@[70.6.76.140]> ...... Original Message ....... On Thu, 4 Jan 2007 14:50:32 -0500 "Bill Nottingham" wrote: >It's time to bite the bullet. > >Eliminate the distinction between Core and Extras entirely. Can we please restore the 'Everything' install package selection that RHL/FC had for years? ___ Dax Kelson Sent with my Treo (please pardon any brevity) From dax at gurulabs.com Fri Jan 5 22:18:13 2007 From: dax at gurulabs.com (Dax Kelson) Date: Fri, 05 Jan 2007 15:18:13 -0700 Subject: Fedora 7 (improving s-c-securitylevel) In-Reply-To: <1167962701.3290.28.camel@mteixeira.homelinux.net> References: <20070104195032.GE4693@nostromo.devel.redhat.com> <1167962701.3290.28.camel@mteixeira.homelinux.net> Message-ID: <1168035493.3358.3.camel@mentorng.gurulabs.com> On Thu, 2007-01-04 at 23:05 -0300, Mauricio Teixeira (netmask) wrote: > Em Qui, 2007-01-04 ?s 14:50 -0500, Bill Nottingham escreveu: > > > - Make wireless rock-solid > > - Add wireless firmware for all the chipsets we can > > I'm quite new to Fedora (came from other distros), and some things I'll > be discussing bellow may already be implemented somehow, but I couldn't > easily find them. If that's the case, please ignore me. > > Speaking about wireless, I would have two suggestions: > #2 - Improving the system-config-securitylevel. This I need to split in > two: > > #2.1 - The current way of setting up firewall rules is excessively > simple, and makes it very difficult to have simple things like internet > connection sharing for a home network. It would be very cool to have the > ability to configure a simple 1:N NAT and some port redirection. Simple is good. I'd be OK with a "NAT all traffic leaving interface X" setting, but please, do not morph it into the SuSEfirewall2 monster. Dax Kelson Guru Labs From dax at gurulabs.com Fri Jan 5 22:23:09 2007 From: dax at gurulabs.com (Dax Kelson) Date: Fri, 05 Jan 2007 15:23:09 -0700 Subject: Fedora 7 (Network Manager) In-Reply-To: <20070105050732.GA24819@jadzia.bu.edu> References: <20070104195032.GE4693@nostromo.devel.redhat.com> <200701042118.01260.dennis@ausil.us> <20070105032157.GF23019@redhat.com> <200701042125.50593.dennis@ausil.us> <1167972179.3159.16.camel@vader.jdub.homelinux.org> <20070105044227.GA13647@nostromo.devel.redhat.com> <20070105050732.GA24819@jadzia.bu.edu> Message-ID: <1168035789.3358.9.camel@mentorng.gurulabs.com> On Fri, 2007-01-05 at 00:07 -0500, Matthew Miller wrote: > On Thu, Jan 04, 2007 at 11:42:27PM -0500, Bill Nottingham wrote: > > > It would be nice if NM supported profiles too. Like "Home" and "Office" > > > where it sets up /etc/hosts and /etc/resolv.conf to be what you'd want > > > for the two different networks. > > Shouldn't resolve.conf be pulled from DNS? > > >From DNS? How's *that* gonna work without a resolv.conf? :) > > But anyway, man do I hate it when a DHCP connection overrides the default > search path I put in there. When I type an unqualified name on my laptop, I > expect it to always mean the same thing. Sigh. I agree fully. I don't mind (in fact, I'm glad) that the name server changes. However, don't touch my DNS search path. It would be great if NetworkManager allowed defining a DNS domain that could be prepended to whatever the DHCP sent (if any). Windows allows this. This can be done with dhclient-XXX.conf Dax Kelson Guru Labs From stickster at gmail.com Fri Jan 5 22:27:07 2007 From: stickster at gmail.com (Paul W. Frields) Date: Fri, 05 Jan 2007 17:27:07 -0500 Subject: Fedora 7 (Everything installs) In-Reply-To: <7873-SnapperMsg827D11E1C1C47D24@[70.6.76.140]> References: <20070104195032.GE4693@nostromo.devel.redhat.com> <7873-SnapperMsg827D11E1C1C47D24@[70.6.76.140]> Message-ID: <1168036027.26602.4.camel@localhost.localdomain> On Fri, 2007-01-05 at 15:09 -0700, Dax Kelson wrote: > ...... Original Message ....... > On Thu, 4 Jan 2007 14:50:32 -0500 "Bill Nottingham" > wrote: > >It's time to bite the bullet. > > > >Eliminate the distinction between Core and Extras entirely. > > Can we please restore the 'Everything' install package selection that > RHL/FC had for years? I'm going to bite the bullet here based on *way* too many historical threads and say, "Um, no." I don't think merging the repos makes any of the existing reasons for doing away with this selection any less sound. Refer to countless archives for said reasons, although I'm sure any sufficiently compelling, *brand-new* reason to put this back in will be happily debated here. It's not like this thread was long enough already or anything! ;-D -- Paul W. Frields, RHCE http://paul.frields.org/ gpg fingerprint: 3DA6 A0AC 6D58 FEC4 0233 5906 ACDB C937 BD11 3717 Fedora Project Board: http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Board Fedora Docs Project: http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/DocsProject -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: signature.asc Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 189 bytes Desc: This is a digitally signed message part URL: From jeff at ocjtech.us Fri Jan 5 22:32:18 2007 From: jeff at ocjtech.us (Jeffrey C. Ollie) Date: Fri, 05 Jan 2007 16:32:18 -0600 Subject: Fedora 7 (Everything installs) In-Reply-To: <7873-SnapperMsg827D11E1C1C47D24@[70.6.76.140]> References: <20070104195032.GE4693@nostromo.devel.redhat.com> <7873-SnapperMsg827D11E1C1C47D24@[70.6.76.140]> Message-ID: <1168036338.3561.22.camel@lt21223.campus.dmacc.edu> On Fri, 2007-01-05 at 15:09 -0700, Dax Kelson wrote: > ...... Original Message ....... > On Thu, 4 Jan 2007 14:50:32 -0500 "Bill Nottingham" > wrote: > >It's time to bite the bullet. > > > >Eliminate the distinction between Core and Extras entirely. > > Can we please restore the 'Everything' install package selection that > RHL/FC had for years? While an "everything" install may have made some sense in the pre-Extras days, it's just silly now. There are so many packages in Core+Extras, many of which duplicate functionality. I mean you'll get at least three SMTP servers (sendmail, exim, postfix), probably four or five window managers/desktop environments, and who knows what else. Jeff -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: signature.asc Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 189 bytes Desc: This is a digitally signed message part URL: From esr at thyrsus.com Fri Jan 5 22:43:31 2007 From: esr at thyrsus.com (Eric S. Raymond) Date: Fri, 5 Jan 2007 17:43:31 -0500 Subject: Fedora 7 (Everything installs) In-Reply-To: <1168036338.3561.22.camel@lt21223.campus.dmacc.edu> References: <20070104195032.GE4693@nostromo.devel.redhat.com> <7873-SnapperMsg827D11E1C1C47D24@[70.6.76.140]> <1168036338.3561.22.camel@lt21223.campus.dmacc.edu> Message-ID: <20070105224331.GA2961@thyrsus.com> Jeffrey C. Ollie : > While an "everything" install may have made some sense in the pre-Extras > days, it's just silly now. There are so many packages in Core+Extras, > many of which duplicate functionality. Nebvertheless, there are real uses for "install everything". Notably, one can be working tools that are designed to audit the entire distribution. When I test doclifter, I want the largest possible corpus of man pages to work on. -- Eric S. Raymond From dax at gurulabs.com Fri Jan 5 22:43:58 2007 From: dax at gurulabs.com (Dax Kelson) Date: Fri, 05 Jan 2007 15:43:58 -0700 Subject: Fedora 7 (Everything installs) In-Reply-To: <1168036027.26602.4.camel@localhost.localdomain> References: <20070104195032.GE4693@nostromo.devel.redhat.com> <7873-SnapperMsg827D11E1C1C47D24@[70.6.76.140]> <1168036027.26602.4.camel@localhost.localdomain> Message-ID: <1168037038.3358.16.camel@mentorng.gurulabs.com> On Fri, 2007-01-05 at 17:27 -0500, Paul W. Frields wrote: > I don't think merging the repos makes any of > the existing reasons for doing away with this selection any less sound. Of course it does. The major argument bandied about for the removal of 'Everything' was the creation of extras. It is useful for a variety of situations. Many, many, people have asked for it back. Now that the merge is happening, let's *restore* the feature that existed for years. Dax Kelson Guru Labs From jspaleta at gmail.com Fri Jan 5 22:45:52 2007 From: jspaleta at gmail.com (Jeff Spaleta) Date: Fri, 5 Jan 2007 13:45:52 -0900 Subject: Fedora 7 (TeTeX) In-Reply-To: <1168000470.4498.10.camel@redhat.usu> References: <20070104195032.GE4693@nostromo.devel.redhat.com> <459D6E03.5030702@di.uminho.pt> <1168000470.4498.10.camel@redhat.usu> Message-ID: <604aa7910701051445n4cdd9e83l7442eff74e32700@mail.gmail.com> On 1/5/07, Jindrich Novy wrote: > I'm still in close contact with TeXLive upstream and the current work is > focused on how to package it in the best way. Are you looking for community co-maintainers to help you out with this after the core+extras merge? The tex stack is pretty important for scientific publications, there are probably several competent contributors out here on the other side of the fenceline who are concerned enough to invest time in keeping the functionality working. -jef From dennis at ausil.us Fri Jan 5 22:50:57 2007 From: dennis at ausil.us (Dennis Gilmore) Date: Fri, 5 Jan 2007 16:50:57 -0600 Subject: Fedora 7 (Everything installs) In-Reply-To: <7873-SnapperMsg827D11E1C1C47D24@[70.6.76.140]> References: <20070104195032.GE4693@nostromo.devel.redhat.com> <7873-SnapperMsg827D11E1C1C47D24@[70.6.76.140]> Message-ID: <200701051650.57524.dennis@ausil.us> On Friday 05 January 2007 16:09, Dax Kelson wrote: > ...... Original Message ....... > On Thu, 4 Jan 2007 14:50:32 -0500 "Bill Nottingham" > > wrote: > >It's time to bite the bullet. > > > >Eliminate the distinction between Core and Extras entirely. > > Can we please restore the 'Everything' install package selection that > RHL/FC had for years? You really want over 3500 packages on your system? and even if you could have that its not possible some packages are mutually exclusive -- ?,-._|\ ? ?Dennis Gilmore, RHCE /Aussie\ ? Proud Australian \_.--._/ ? | Aurora | Fedora | ? ? ? v ? ? From dax at gurulabs.com Fri Jan 5 22:55:16 2007 From: dax at gurulabs.com (Dax Kelson) Date: Fri, 05 Jan 2007 15:55:16 -0700 Subject: Fedora 7 (Everything installs) In-Reply-To: <1168036338.3561.22.camel@lt21223.campus.dmacc.edu> References: <20070104195032.GE4693@nostromo.devel.redhat.com> <7873-SnapperMsg827D11E1C1C47D24@[70.6.76.140]> <1168036338.3561.22.camel@lt21223.campus.dmacc.edu> Message-ID: <1168037716.3358.28.camel@mentorng.gurulabs.com> On Fri, 2007-01-05 at 16:32 -0600, Jeffrey C. Ollie wrote: > While an "everything" install may have made some sense in the pre-Extras > days, it's just silly now. There are so many packages in Core+Extras, > many of which duplicate functionality. I mean you'll get at least three > SMTP servers (sendmail, exim, postfix), probably four or five window > managers/desktop environments, and who knows what else. > > Jeff I disagree. Just because you can't envision a use for it doesn't mean that others cant. The alternatives system deployed in RHL ages ago (1999) so that you can have multiple "conflicting' packages installed at the same time. For a "production" box that is performing some defined task(s), I agree that "everything" is a bad idea. For a "power user"/developer/consultant/helpdesk box, I don't see any problem with an "everything" install. Hard disk space is cheap and plentiful (note that 1TB drives were announced yesterday). There are numerous situations where an application dynamically gets extra functionality and features if other *addon* or *plugin* packages get installed. Dax Kelson Guru Labs From dax at gurulabs.com Fri Jan 5 23:03:49 2007 From: dax at gurulabs.com (Dax Kelson) Date: Fri, 05 Jan 2007 16:03:49 -0700 Subject: Fedora 7 (IP aliases) In-Reply-To: <20070105210941.GG23650@nostromo.devel.redhat.com> References: <20070104195032.GE4693@nostromo.devel.redhat.com> <200701050004.23169.jkeating@redhat.com> <1167998004.3159.43.camel@vader.jdub.homelinux.org> <200701050818.54425.jkeating@redhat.com> <1168007328.3544.6.camel@wireless-62.media.mit.edu> <20070105145417.GA14720@dspnet.fr.eu.org> <1168012009.3544.42.camel@wireless-62.media.mit.edu> <459E783A.8020501@olen.net> <20070105210941.GG23650@nostromo.devel.redhat.com> Message-ID: <1168038229.3358.36.camel@mentorng.gurulabs.com> On Fri, 2007-01-05 at 16:09 -0500, Bill Nottingham wrote: > Ola Thoresen (redhat at olen.net) said: > > It is at least important to be able to add multiple addresses to one > > (physical) interface. > > I personally don't like the old eth0:0 eth0:1 (...), but prefer the new > > iproute2 style, but I guess I can live with aliases as long as it is > > easy to add/remove them. > > Aliases (eth0:0) need to die. Of course, I've been saying that for years > and haven't killed them yet. :/ SUSE moved to iproute2 style aliases awhile back and it would be nice to have one less difference in distributions (especially for me, since I write books covering Linux distros). The only drawback is you can no longer depend on /sbin/ifconfig to show you the all the IPs bound to a NIC. This is especially jarring for sys admins moving from a-flavor-of-UNIX to Linux. It would be nice if ifconfig displayed iproute2 style aliases. Dax Kelson Guru Labs From dax at gurulabs.com Fri Jan 5 23:09:41 2007 From: dax at gurulabs.com (Dax Kelson) Date: Fri, 05 Jan 2007 16:09:41 -0700 Subject: Fedora 7 (Everything installs) In-Reply-To: <200701051650.57524.dennis@ausil.us> References: <20070104195032.GE4693@nostromo.devel.redhat.com> <7873-SnapperMsg827D11E1C1C47D24@[70.6.76.140]> <200701051650.57524.dennis@ausil.us> Message-ID: <1168038581.3358.43.camel@mentorng.gurulabs.com> On Fri, 2007-01-05 at 16:50 -0600, Dennis Gilmore wrote: > "even if you could have that its not possible some packages are mutually exclusive." Sendmail and Postfix both have "/sbin/sendmail", but you can have them both installed at the same time. Any mutually exclusive cases should be considered a bug(1). See update-alternatives(8). Dax Kelson Guru Labs (1) A class of bug that RHL/FC did without for 15 years or so because Everything installs existed. From emmanuel.seyman at club-internet.fr Fri Jan 5 23:22:45 2007 From: emmanuel.seyman at club-internet.fr (Emmanuel Seyman) Date: Sat, 6 Jan 2007 00:22:45 +0100 Subject: Fedora 7 (Everything installs) In-Reply-To: <7873-SnapperMsg827D11E1C1C47D24@[70.6.76.140]> References: <20070104195032.GE4693@nostromo.devel.redhat.com> <7873-SnapperMsg827D11E1C1C47D24@[70.6.76.140]> Message-ID: <20070105232245.GA25134@orient.maison.lan> On Fri, Jan 05, 2007 at 03:09:34PM -0700, Dax Kelson wrote: > > > >Eliminate the distinction between Core and Extras entirely. > > Can we please restore the 'Everything' install package selection that > RHL/FC had for years? Doesn't this boil down to running 'yum install \*' just after installation ? Emmanuel From redhat at olen.net Fri Jan 5 23:33:31 2007 From: redhat at olen.net (Ola Thoresen) Date: Sat, 06 Jan 2007 00:33:31 +0100 Subject: Domain search path (was Re: Fedora 7) In-Reply-To: <1168013126.18475.44.camel@concord2.proximity.on.ca> References: <20070105093524.208DC72FCA@hormel.redhat.com> <1168013126.18475.44.camel@concord2.proximity.on.ca> Message-ID: <459EE04B.4000908@olen.net> Chris Tyler wrote: > On Fri, 2007-01-05 Matthew Miller wrote: >> But anyway, man do I hate it when a DHCP connection overrides the >> default search path I put in there. When I type an unqualified name on >> my laptop, I expect it to always mean the same thing. Sigh. > > Drove me crazy too before I discovered $LOCALDOMAIN lurking at the end > of the resolv.conf manpage. > > echo 'export LOCALDOMAIN="dom1.com dom2.org"' >>/etc/profile > > Via ~/.bash_profile it even lets me set my domain search path on > machines where I don't have root. > Wow! Sounds perfect! Except it does not seem to work with most apps? $ export LOCALDOMAIN="nytt.no" $ echo $LOCALDOMAIN nytt.no $ host poseidon Host poseidon not found: 3(NXDOMAIN) $ ping poseidon ping: unknown host poseidon - but $ host poseidon.nytt.no poseidon.nytt.no has address 195.159.132.73 and for some reason $ traceroute poseidon traceroute to poseidon (195.159.132.73), 30 hops max, 40 byte packets From stracing the "host" process it does not seems like it bothers about the LOCALDOMAIN at all. nscd is not running, so that should not be the problem. A bug in a resolver-library, or something I overlooked? Rgds. -- _,--', _._.--._____ .--.--';_'-.', ";_ _.,-' Ola Thoresen .'--'. _.' {`'-;_ .-.>.' '-:_ ) / `' '=. It is easier to fix Unix ) > {_/, /~) than to live with Windows |/ `^ .' From dax at gurulabs.com Fri Jan 5 23:47:24 2007 From: dax at gurulabs.com (Dax Kelson) Date: Fri, 05 Jan 2007 16:47:24 -0700 Subject: Status of User Private Group Scheme (UPG) Message-ID: <1168040844.3358.67.camel@mentorng.gurulabs.com> Since as long as I can remember (the Mother's day release?), Red Hat Linux implemented the User Private Group scheme out-of-the-box. It is documented in all on-line Red Hat manuals. It consists of two pieces: a) private primary group for each user instead of "users" b) umask of 002 for user accounts According to the changelog for the setup RPM, /etc/bashrc was changed last March to use 022 for all accounts. However, private primary groups are still created for user accounts. The current situation is odd, however, with (a) still in effect, but (b) gone. There is no mention in any release notes that I can find. Why the change, and what's the plan/status of UPG? I can understand if UPG is going away, as the problem that UPG addresses can be handled with FACLs and default ACLs on directories (my Linux training manuals have now been updated with using-FACLs-instead-of-UPG). IMHO, either UPG should stay in it's entirety, or it should go in it's entirety. Dax Kelson Guru Labs From tadams-lists at myrealbox.com Fri Jan 5 23:58:24 2007 From: tadams-lists at myrealbox.com (Trever L. Adams) Date: Fri, 05 Jan 2007 16:58:24 -0700 Subject: Fedora Core 7 - Compiz vs Beryl In-Reply-To: <1167987945.3323.7.camel@localhost> References: <20070104212706.44899.qmail@web52412.mail.yahoo.com> <1167957394.2172.46.camel@dragon.valuecommerce.ne.jp> <1167970824.8614.2.camel@aurora.localdomain> <1167987945.3323.7.camel@localhost> Message-ID: <1168041504.4977.2.camel@aurora.localdomain> On Fri, 2007-01-05 at 01:05 -0800, Peter Gordon wrote: > That configurability comes at the cost of a disastrous UI and many cases > of Not-Invented-Here syndrome (using flat files for storage instead of > GConf, using its own themes instead of those of Metacity/Cairo/GTK, et. > al). That, and the fact that the people of Beryl is purportedly much > less strict about the quality and consistency of code accepted. > > I've got three words for that: No thank you. Give me the ability to select the plugins, configure colors, speed, effects for vairous things with a nice UI and I wiould take compiz. However, telling people to use gconf-editor is not always the answer. I agree, things should use standard tools. However, they target KDE as well, so gconf is not necessarily part of the solution. However, Metacity/Cairo/GTK do not, as of yet (as far as I have seen), have transparent themes, etc. This is another problem. So, yes, if you can get some of these user side problems (including theme candy) fixed, then yes, compiz would be better. My big complaint, probably my biggest, is the lack of an Expose like functionality. I love it, it helps me work faster. Trever From dlutter at redhat.com Fri Jan 5 23:59:57 2007 From: dlutter at redhat.com (David Lutterkort) Date: Fri, 05 Jan 2007 23:59:57 +0000 Subject: Fedora 7 In-Reply-To: <20070105200137.GM28367@plain.rackshack.net> References: <20070104195032.GE4693@nostromo.devel.redhat.com> <459E20D7.9020307@gmail.com> <200701050820.28298.jkeating@redhat.com> <459E5DA4.6080107@gmail.com> <20070105150153.GA13767@jadzia.bu.edu> <459E6914.3020706@fedoraproject.org> <20070105152944.GA15663@jadzia.bu.edu> <459E7FF7.80102@fedoraproject.org> <459E8898.1020102@leemhuis.info> <20070105200137.GM28367@plain.rackshack.net> Message-ID: <1168041598.2907.112.camel@localhost.localdomain> On Fri, 2007-01-05 at 21:01 +0100, Rudi Chiarito wrote: > Even better would be the use of mDNS and DNS-SD to search for such a > proxy. This way, you don't need to hardcode anything in configuration > files. I think misa's service discovery plugin [1] would be a good starting point. Probably needs some dusting off. David [1] https://lists.dulug.duke.edu/pipermail/yum-devel/2006-May/002194.html From michael.wiktowy at gmail.com Fri Jan 5 23:57:22 2007 From: michael.wiktowy at gmail.com (Michael Wiktowy) Date: Fri, 5 Jan 2007 18:57:22 -0500 Subject: Fedora 7 (Everything installs) In-Reply-To: <20070105232245.GA25134@orient.maison.lan> References: <20070104195032.GE4693@nostromo.devel.redhat.com> <7873-SnapperMsg827D11E1C1C47D24@70.6.76.140> <20070105232245.GA25134@orient.maison.lan> Message-ID: <3e4ec4600701051557s7d24e188x59dd093d4fdd6154@mail.gmail.com> On 1/5/07, Emmanuel Seyman wrote: > On Fri, Jan 05, 2007 at 03:09:34PM -0700, Dax Kelson wrote: > > > > > >Eliminate the distinction between Core and Extras entirely. > > > > Can we please restore the 'Everything' install package selection that > > RHL/FC had for years? > > Doesn't this boil down to running 'yum install \*' just > after installation ? I would suspect so. Your machine might explode soon after though :] yum install \*.i386 and/or yum install \*.`uname -m` might make it explode less. It is simple to do this once you have a net connection. For those people who want "install everything" on removable media I am wondering what removable media they are going to store "everything" on? Maybe a compomise would be to have an option to "install everything available on media". That makes more sense than a straight "install everything" in this yum-enabled-anaconda world. Kinda. /Mike From michael.wiktowy at gmail.com Sat Jan 6 00:04:32 2007 From: michael.wiktowy at gmail.com (Michael Wiktowy) Date: Fri, 5 Jan 2007 19:04:32 -0500 Subject: Fedora 7 In-Reply-To: <20070105211037.GH23650@nostromo.devel.redhat.com> References: <20070104195032.GE4693@nostromo.devel.redhat.com> <1167998004.3159.43.camel@vader.jdub.homelinux.org> <200701050818.54425.jkeating@redhat.com> <1168007328.3544.6.camel@wireless-62.media.mit.edu> <20070105145417.GA14720@dspnet.fr.eu.org> <1168012009.3544.42.camel@wireless-62.media.mit.edu> <459E783A.8020501@olen.net> <1168014453.3544.48.camel@wireless-62.media.mit.edu> <3e4ec4600701051217j42e67627l353e251cf52a6f19@mail.gmail.com> <20070105211037.GH23650@nostromo.devel.redhat.com> Message-ID: <3e4ec4600701051604k291083b5gad31809296af3e86@mail.gmail.com> On 1/5/07, Bill Nottingham wrote: > Michael Wiktowy (michael.wiktowy at gmail.com) said: > > Could someone illuminate me on the non-vile iproute2 style of doing > > this (give me the right jargon to Google)? Is it that you can call the > > aliases anything you want with a mapping/iface combo in > > /etc/network/interfaces? > > Apparently, I was being vile and didn't know it and want to reform. > > Just 'ip addr add dev eth0 192.168.1.1/24'. Thanks ... I'll have to investigate how this survives the DHCP client as my point to using aliases in the past was to ensure that I had a static IP that I can reach from the outside via port forwarded ssh through a router that seems to mysteriously change internal IP assignments when it uses DHCP. /Mike From dlutter at redhat.com Sat Jan 6 00:07:31 2007 From: dlutter at redhat.com (David Lutterkort) Date: Fri, 05 Jan 2007 16:07:31 -0800 Subject: Fedora 7 - Desktop and Server spins. In-Reply-To: <200701050805.27702.jkeating@redhat.com> References: <20070104195032.GE4693@nostromo.devel.redhat.com> <604aa7910701042018p73a86cdend89bb01ecfbb9f9a@mail.gmail.com> <1167974379.2172.112.camel@dragon.valuecommerce.ne.jp> <200701050805.27702.jkeating@redhat.com> Message-ID: <1168042051.2907.115.camel@localhost.localdomain> On Fri, 2007-01-05 at 08:05 -0500, Jesse Keating wrote: > On Friday 05 January 2007 00:19, Naoki wrote: > > Is the core problem simply one of space? If all packages fit on HD-DVD > > (Blu-Ray) for example then we no longer need separate spins? (forgetting > > for now that there is no mass market penetration of said devices). > > Not space on medium, but amount to download. Why should somebody download > 8gigs worth for an install that would fit on one/two CDs? If download size is the overriding issue, we should think about beefing up repotrack and publishing recommended configs for its use for various cases - if the differences in emphasis and audience for desktop and server are the issue, we'd probably want to think beyond a pared down package set. David From ajackson at redhat.com Sat Jan 6 00:08:59 2007 From: ajackson at redhat.com (Adam Jackson) Date: Fri, 05 Jan 2007 19:08:59 -0500 Subject: Fedora Core 7 - Compiz vs Beryl In-Reply-To: <1168041504.4977.2.camel@aurora.localdomain> References: <20070104212706.44899.qmail@web52412.mail.yahoo.com> <1167957394.2172.46.camel@dragon.valuecommerce.ne.jp> <1167970824.8614.2.camel@aurora.localdomain> <1167987945.3323.7.camel@localhost> <1168041504.4977.2.camel@aurora.localdomain> Message-ID: <1168042139.7683.591.camel@localhost.localdomain> On Fri, 2007-01-05 at 16:58 -0700, Trever L. Adams wrote: > My big complaint, probably my biggest, is the lack of an Expose like > functionality. I love it, it helps me work faster. Compiz has one. It's even enabled by default, last I checked. Make sure 'scale' is listed in /apps/compiz/general/allscreens/options/active_plugins and then check the settings in /apps/compiz/plugins/scale - ajax From mclasen at redhat.com Sat Jan 6 00:48:42 2007 From: mclasen at redhat.com (Matthias Clasen) Date: Fri, 05 Jan 2007 19:48:42 -0500 Subject: Fedora Core 7 - Compiz vs Beryl In-Reply-To: <1168041504.4977.2.camel@aurora.localdomain> References: <20070104212706.44899.qmail@web52412.mail.yahoo.com> <1167957394.2172.46.camel@dragon.valuecommerce.ne.jp> <1167970824.8614.2.camel@aurora.localdomain> <1167987945.3323.7.camel@localhost> <1168041504.4977.2.camel@aurora.localdomain> Message-ID: <1168044522.3508.5.camel@localhost.localdomain> On Fri, 2007-01-05 at 16:58 -0700, Trever L. Adams wrote: > I agree, things should use standard tools. However, they target KDE as > well, so gconf is not necessarily part of the solution. However, > Metacity/Cairo/GTK do not, as of yet (as far as I have seen), have > transparent themes, etc. This is another problem. Can you outline in what way "transparent themes" would help our users ? UIs are generally better if you can actually see them... From tadams-lists at myrealbox.com Sat Jan 6 01:02:04 2007 From: tadams-lists at myrealbox.com (Trever L. Adams) Date: Fri, 05 Jan 2007 18:02:04 -0700 Subject: Fedora Core 7 - Compiz vs Beryl In-Reply-To: <1168044522.3508.5.camel@localhost.localdomain> References: <20070104212706.44899.qmail@web52412.mail.yahoo.com> <1167957394.2172.46.camel@dragon.valuecommerce.ne.jp> <1167970824.8614.2.camel@aurora.localdomain> <1167987945.3323.7.camel@localhost> <1168041504.4977.2.camel@aurora.localdomain> <1168044522.3508.5.camel@localhost.localdomain> Message-ID: <1168045324.2398.1.camel@aurora.localdomain> On Fri, 2007-01-05 at 19:48 -0500, Matthias Clasen wrote: > On Fri, 2007-01-05 at 16:58 -0700, Trever L. Adams wrote: > > > I agree, things should use standard tools. However, they target KDE as > > well, so gconf is not necessarily part of the solution. However, > > Metacity/Cairo/GTK do not, as of yet (as far as I have seen), have > > transparent themes, etc. This is another problem. > > Can you outline in what way "transparent themes" would help our users ? > UIs are generally better if you can actually see them... Maybe translucent would be the better word. I have a theme, that until some recent problems with beryl (off currently) would allow me to see things underneath decorations for none active windows. I liked this. Beyond some simple helps, it was eye candy, yes, but useful. Purely transparent, obviously that would be a problem. Trever From tadams-lists at myrealbox.com Sat Jan 6 01:03:57 2007 From: tadams-lists at myrealbox.com (Trever L. Adams) Date: Fri, 05 Jan 2007 18:03:57 -0700 Subject: Fedora Core 7 - Compiz vs Beryl In-Reply-To: <1168042139.7683.591.camel@localhost.localdomain> References: <20070104212706.44899.qmail@web52412.mail.yahoo.com> <1167957394.2172.46.camel@dragon.valuecommerce.ne.jp> <1167970824.8614.2.camel@aurora.localdomain> <1167987945.3323.7.camel@localhost> <1168041504.4977.2.camel@aurora.localdomain> <1168042139.7683.591.camel@localhost.localdomain> Message-ID: <1168045438.2398.4.camel@aurora.localdomain> On Fri, 2007-01-05 at 19:08 -0500, Adam Jackson wrote: > On Fri, 2007-01-05 at 16:58 -0700, Trever L. Adams wrote: > > > My big complaint, probably my biggest, is the lack of an Expose like > > functionality. I love it, it helps me work faster. > > Compiz has one. It's even enabled by default, last I checked. Make > sure 'scale' is listed in > > /apps/compiz/general/allscreens/options/active_plugins > > and then check the settings in > > /apps/compiz/plugins/scale > > - ajax Ajax, thank you. This is helpful, but it illustrates my point. You want me to go into a configuration editor that is not as clear (though probably less cluttered) than that of beryl. This is what I mean that compiz needs a graphical one. Trever From davej at redhat.com Sat Jan 6 02:22:04 2007 From: davej at redhat.com (Dave Jones) Date: Fri, 5 Jan 2007 21:22:04 -0500 Subject: Fedora 7 (Everything installs) In-Reply-To: <1168037038.3358.16.camel@mentorng.gurulabs.com> References: <20070104195032.GE4693@nostromo.devel.redhat.com> <7873-SnapperMsg827D11E1C1C47D24@[70.6.76.140]> <1168036027.26602.4.camel@localhost.localdomain> <1168037038.3358.16.camel@mentorng.gurulabs.com> Message-ID: <20070106022204.GJ5592@redhat.com> On Fri, Jan 05, 2007 at 03:43:58PM -0700, Dax Kelson wrote: > On Fri, 2007-01-05 at 17:27 -0500, Paul W. Frields wrote: > > I don't think merging the repos makes any of > > the existing reasons for doing away with this selection any less sound. > > Of course it does. The major argument bandied about for the removal of > 'Everything' was the creation of extras. > > It is useful for a variety of situations. Examples? What problem are you actually trying to solve? > Many, many, people have asked for it back. That doesn't mean it's the right thing to do. Many people have asked for all sorts of misguided features. Thankfully most of the time, sanity has prevailed. > Now that the merge is happening, let's *restore* the > feature that existed for years. The merge makes the case for not doing it even stronger. Before it was feasible that someone might not have extras configured, and might want everything from core. core+extras today is around 5000 packages iirc. This is only going to get bigger. How can possibly make sense to install every package known to man? How do you deal with conflicting packages that want to do the same thing (like say, binding to a network socket). How do you navigate a gnome application menu with thousands of applications? Given a typical install today takes way too long, an everything install of 5000 packages must be hurrendous. And god, if people think yum takes too long now, installing updates for 5000 packages sounds like a world of unfun. It's a seriously bad idea that makes less sense over time. Dave -- http://www.codemonkey.org.uk From galibert at pobox.com Sat Jan 6 02:26:34 2007 From: galibert at pobox.com (Olivier Galibert) Date: Sat, 6 Jan 2007 03:26:34 +0100 Subject: Fedora 7 (Everything installs) In-Reply-To: <20070106022204.GJ5592@redhat.com> References: <20070104195032.GE4693@nostromo.devel.redhat.com> <7873-SnapperMsg827D11E1C1C47D24@[70.6.76.140]> <1168036027.26602.4.camel@localhost.localdomain> <1168037038.3358.16.camel@mentorng.gurulabs.com> <20070106022204.GJ5592@redhat.com> Message-ID: <20070106022634.GA15385@dspnet.fr.eu.org> On Fri, Jan 05, 2007 at 09:22:04PM -0500, Dave Jones wrote: > core+extras today is around 5000 packages iirc. This is only going > to get bigger. How can possibly make sense to install every package > known to man? What makes you think the installation is pointed at a full core+extras mirror instead of a selected subset? Not everybody is stupid you know. OG. From davej at redhat.com Sat Jan 6 02:40:40 2007 From: davej at redhat.com (Dave Jones) Date: Fri, 5 Jan 2007 21:40:40 -0500 Subject: Fedora 7 (Everything installs) In-Reply-To: <20070106022634.GA15385@dspnet.fr.eu.org> References: <20070104195032.GE4693@nostromo.devel.redhat.com> <7873-SnapperMsg827D11E1C1C47D24@[70.6.76.140]> <1168036027.26602.4.camel@localhost.localdomain> <1168037038.3358.16.camel@mentorng.gurulabs.com> <20070106022204.GJ5592@redhat.com> <20070106022634.GA15385@dspnet.fr.eu.org> Message-ID: <20070106024040.GK5592@redhat.com> On Sat, Jan 06, 2007 at 03:26:34AM +0100, Olivier Galibert wrote: > On Fri, Jan 05, 2007 at 09:22:04PM -0500, Dave Jones wrote: > > core+extras today is around 5000 packages iirc. This is only going > > to get bigger. How can possibly make sense to install every package > > known to man? > > What makes you think the installation is pointed at a full core+extras > mirror instead of a selected subset? Not everybody is stupid you > know. I wish I shared your faith in humanity. Some people _will_ see an everything button and try it on a core+extras dist. Probably more than the alternative scenario you propose. A better solution to subsets than using 'everything' would be to use the same mechanism we'll be using for the server spin or the kde spin or whatever. Dave -- http://www.codemonkey.org.uk From mattdm at mattdm.org Sat Jan 6 02:50:53 2007 From: mattdm at mattdm.org (Matthew Miller) Date: Fri, 5 Jan 2007 21:50:53 -0500 Subject: Fedora 7 (Everything installs) In-Reply-To: <20070106022634.GA15385@dspnet.fr.eu.org> References: <20070104195032.GE4693@nostromo.devel.redhat.com> <7873-SnapperMsg827D11E1C1C47D24@[70.6.76.140]> <1168036027.26602.4.camel@localhost.localdomain> <1168037038.3358.16.camel@mentorng.gurulabs.com> <20070106022204.GJ5592@redhat.com> <20070106022634.GA15385@dspnet.fr.eu.org> Message-ID: <20070106025053.GA9400@jadzia.bu.edu> On Sat, Jan 06, 2007 at 03:26:34AM +0100, Olivier Galibert wrote: > What makes you think the installation is pointed at a full core+extras > mirror instead of a selected subset? Not everybody is stupid you > know. But, in what way is that "everything", then? It's not at all! -- Matthew Miller mattdm at mattdm.org Boston University Linux ------> From mattdm at mattdm.org Sat Jan 6 02:51:33 2007 From: mattdm at mattdm.org (Matthew Miller) Date: Fri, 5 Jan 2007 21:51:33 -0500 Subject: Fedora 7 (Everything installs) In-Reply-To: <20070105224331.GA2961@thyrsus.com> References: <20070104195032.GE4693@nostromo.devel.redhat.com> <7873-SnapperMsg827D11E1C1C47D24@[70.6.76.140]> <1168036338.3561.22.camel@lt21223.campus.dmacc.edu> <20070105224331.GA2961@thyrsus.com> Message-ID: <20070106025133.GB9400@jadzia.bu.edu> On Fri, Jan 05, 2007 at 05:43:31PM -0500, Eric S. Raymond wrote: > Nebvertheless, there are real uses for "install everything". Notably, > one can be working tools that are designed to audit the entire distribution. > When I test doclifter, I want the largest possible corpus of man pages to > work on. That's what "yum install '*'" is for. -- Matthew Miller mattdm at mattdm.org Boston University Linux ------> From jkeating at redhat.com Sat Jan 6 02:49:57 2007 From: jkeating at redhat.com (Jesse Keating) Date: Fri, 5 Jan 2007 21:49:57 -0500 Subject: Fedora 7 (Everything installs) In-Reply-To: <20070106022634.GA15385@dspnet.fr.eu.org> References: <20070104195032.GE4693@nostromo.devel.redhat.com> <20070106022204.GJ5592@redhat.com> <20070106022634.GA15385@dspnet.fr.eu.org> Message-ID: <200701052149.58022.jkeating@redhat.com> On Friday 05 January 2007 21:26, Olivier Galibert wrote: > What makes you think the installation is pointed at a full core+extras > mirror instead of a selected subset? ?Not everybody is stupid you > know. Because that's not "everything" and saying it is just puts us back into that confusing place where everything doesn't mean everything. We don't install kenrel.i586 kernel.i686 kernel-xen etc... on systems that don't support it. A yum install \* would do this, and bam, your box won't boot. How fun is that? Now, when you bring up a selected subset, these spins could be "everything" by default, as in you're getting the Desktop CD set, it could list all packages that were targetted for this spin as default (some manditory) and you've got "everything". Deselect what you don't want. Will we do this for Fedora Desktop/Server/KDE? Probably not. -- Jesse Keating Release Engineer: Fedora -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 189 bytes Desc: not available URL: From tonynelson at georgeanelson.com Sat Jan 6 03:09:23 2007 From: tonynelson at georgeanelson.com (Tony Nelson) Date: Fri, 5 Jan 2007 22:09:23 -0500 Subject: Fedora 7 In-Reply-To: <20070104195032.GE4693@nostromo.devel.redhat.com> References: <20070104195032.GE4693@nostromo.devel.redhat.com> Message-ID: At 2:50 PM -0500 1/4/07, Bill Nottingham wrote: >Hence, Fedora 7. Name TBD, but probably not 'Bride of Zod'. How about "Corson, the demon child of the unholy marriage of Core and Extras"? (Google "corson" and feel lucky.) -- ____________________________________________________________________ TonyN.:' ' From david at lovesunix.net Sat Jan 6 05:28:52 2007 From: david at lovesunix.net (David Nielsen) Date: Sat, 06 Jan 2007 06:28:52 +0100 Subject: Fedora Core 7 - Compiz vs Beryl In-Reply-To: <1168041504.4977.2.camel@aurora.localdomain> References: <20070104212706.44899.qmail@web52412.mail.yahoo.com> <1167957394.2172.46.camel@dragon.valuecommerce.ne.jp> <1167970824.8614.2.camel@aurora.localdomain> <1167987945.3323.7.camel@localhost> <1168041504.4977.2.camel@aurora.localdomain> Message-ID: <1168061332.4104.515.camel@localhost.localdomain> fre, 05 01 2007 kl. 16:58 -0700, skrev Trever L. Adams: > My big complaint, probably my biggest, is the lack of an Expose like > functionality. I love it, it helps me work faster. The Scale plugin does this and it is both shipped and enabled by default. Moving the cursor to assigned "hot spot" will enable it, by default this is the top right corner (though endlessly configurable through our friend GConf) - David From miles.lane at gmail.com Sat Jan 6 06:03:27 2007 From: miles.lane at gmail.com (Miles Lane) Date: Sat, 6 Jan 2007 01:03:27 -0500 Subject: Fedora Core 7 - Compiz vs Beryl In-Reply-To: <1168061332.4104.515.camel@localhost.localdomain> References: <20070104212706.44899.qmail@web52412.mail.yahoo.com> <1167957394.2172.46.camel@dragon.valuecommerce.ne.jp> <1167970824.8614.2.camel@aurora.localdomain> <1167987945.3323.7.camel@localhost> <1168041504.4977.2.camel@aurora.localdomain> <1168061332.4104.515.camel@localhost.localdomain> Message-ID: GConf editor is not a desktop user's configuration system. I'll consider using Compiz when there is a graphic config system. Does anyone know whether someone is developing a Compiz configuration manager for KDE, or is Compiz considered to be solely targeted to the Gnome environment? Miles On 1/6/07, David Nielsen wrote: > fre, 05 01 2007 kl. 16:58 -0700, skrev Trever L. Adams: > > My big complaint, probably my biggest, is the lack of an Expose like > > functionality. I love it, it helps me work faster. > > The Scale plugin does this and it is both shipped and enabled by > default. Moving the cursor to assigned "hot spot" will enable it, by > default this is the top right corner (though endlessly configurable > through our friend GConf) > > - David > > -- > fedora-devel-list mailing list > fedora-devel-list at redhat.com > https://www.redhat.com/mailman/listinfo/fedora-devel-list > From david at lovesunix.net Sat Jan 6 06:18:09 2007 From: david at lovesunix.net (David Nielsen) Date: Sat, 06 Jan 2007 07:18:09 +0100 Subject: Fedora Core 7 - Compiz vs Beryl In-Reply-To: References: <20070104212706.44899.qmail@web52412.mail.yahoo.com> <1167957394.2172.46.camel@dragon.valuecommerce.ne.jp> <1167970824.8614.2.camel@aurora.localdomain> <1167987945.3323.7.camel@localhost> <1168041504.4977.2.camel@aurora.localdomain> <1168061332.4104.515.camel@localhost.localdomain> Message-ID: <1168064289.3274.148.camel@dawkins> l?r, 06 01 2007 kl. 01:03 -0500, skrev Miles Lane: > GConf editor is not a desktop user's configuration system. I'll > consider using Compiz when there is a graphic config system. Does > anyone know whether someone is developing a Compiz configuration > manager for KDE, or is Compiz considered to be solely targeted to the > Gnome environment? a) Nothing GNOME specific about GConf b) Desktop effects provides a nice simple interface for more complicated needs there's the compiz configurator or indeed for those of us who like that kind of thing there's direct interaction with GConf via CLI or the gconf-editor. c) Developers of other DEs can use DBus to configure Compiz so to allow for the right amount of options in the right places. Poke your DE developers till code falls out or write it yourself if such code does not exist. You can't expect upstream to provide anything more than the tools to write them and a proof of concept. - David -- "Ridicule is the only weapon that can be used against unintelligible propositions. Ideas must be distinct before reason can act upon them.? -Thomas Jefferson -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: signature.asc Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 189 bytes Desc: Dette er en digitalt underskrevet brevdel URL: From wtogami at redhat.com Sat Jan 6 07:21:30 2007 From: wtogami at redhat.com (Warren Togami) Date: Sat, 06 Jan 2007 02:21:30 -0500 Subject: Fedora 7 In-Reply-To: <53532.65.223.36.19.1167945317.squirrel@thecodergeek.com> References: <20070104195032.GE4693@nostromo.devel.redhat.com> <20070104205645.GA6194@hurricane.linuxnetz.de> <53532.65.223.36.19.1167945317.squirrel@thecodergeek.com> Message-ID: <459F4DFA.6030002@redhat.com> Peter Gordon wrote: > Robert Scheck wrote: >> Sounds nice, even I'm curious whether this can be realized until April. >> And What will be the release tagging of the new "Fedora 7"? Won't there be >> no magic .fc7 dist any longer? IMHO .f7 looks odd and causes problem with >> rpmvercmp. We could take this as reason to rename Fedora again ;-) > > The %dist tag could be expanded to something like ".fedora7" instead (which is > greater than ".fc6" according to rpmvercmp. > .fc7 could refer to "Fedora Collection 7". Then .fcX would be more meaningful than .fc6 currently in Extras packages too. Warren Togami wtogami at redhat.com From bruno at wolff.to Sat Jan 6 07:25:48 2007 From: bruno at wolff.to (Bruno Wolff III) Date: Sat, 6 Jan 2007 01:25:48 -0600 Subject: Grub 2 and FC7? Message-ID: <20070106072548.GA15367@wolff.to> Are there plans to give an option to install Grub 2 in FC7? The Grub 2 wiki now claims that software raid and lvm are supported, which are some nice new features. From dwmw2 at infradead.org Sat Jan 6 07:32:02 2007 From: dwmw2 at infradead.org (David Woodhouse) Date: Sat, 06 Jan 2007 15:32:02 +0800 Subject: Status of User Private Group Scheme (UPG) In-Reply-To: <1168040844.3358.67.camel@mentorng.gurulabs.com> References: <1168040844.3358.67.camel@mentorng.gurulabs.com> Message-ID: <1168068722.18707.115.camel@shinybook.infradead.org> On Fri, 2007-01-05 at 16:47 -0700, Dax Kelson wrote: > According to the changelog for the setup RPM, /etc/bashrc was changed > last March to use 022 for all accounts. However, private primary groups > are still created for user accounts. > > The current situation is odd, however, with (a) still in effect, but (b) > gone. There is no mention in any release notes that I can find. Hm, this would be why all group-writable stuff started breaking after the update to FC6 :) > Why the change, and what's the plan/status of UPG? Is there a bug filed? -- dwmw2 From vnpenguin at vnoss.org Sat Jan 6 07:33:46 2007 From: vnpenguin at vnoss.org (Vnpenguin) Date: Sat, 6 Jan 2007 08:33:46 +0100 Subject: Fedora 7 (Everything installs) In-Reply-To: <20070106022204.GJ5592@redhat.com> References: <20070104195032.GE4693@nostromo.devel.redhat.com> <7873-SnapperMsg827D11E1C1C47D24@70.6.76.140> <1168036027.26602.4.camel@localhost.localdomain> <1168037038.3358.16.camel@mentorng.gurulabs.com> <20070106022204.GJ5592@redhat.com> Message-ID: On 1/6/07, Dave Jones wrote: > > That doesn't mean it's the right thing to do. > Many people have asked for all sorts of misguided features. > Thankfully most of the time, sanity has prevailed. > > > Now that the merge is happening, let's *restore* the > > feature that existed for years. > > The merge makes the case for not doing it even stronger. > Before it was feasible that someone might not have extras configured, > and might want everything from core. > > core+extras today is around 5000 packages iirc. This is only going > to get bigger. How can possibly make sense to install every package > known to man? How do you deal with conflicting packages that want > to do the same thing (like say, binding to a network socket). > How do you navigate a gnome application menu with thousands > of applications? Given a typical install today takes way too long, > an everything install of 5000 packages must be hurrendous. > And god, if people think yum takes too long now, installing > updates for 5000 packages sounds like a world of unfun. > > It's a seriously bad idea that makes less sense over time. > Completely agree with you ! -- http://vnoss.org From wtogami at redhat.com Sat Jan 6 07:43:26 2007 From: wtogami at redhat.com (Warren Togami) Date: Sat, 06 Jan 2007 02:43:26 -0500 Subject: Fedora 7 In-Reply-To: <200701041648.41161.jkeating@redhat.com> References: <20070104195032.GE4693@nostromo.devel.redhat.com> <200701041613.50625.jkeating@redhat.com> <20070104212011.GL28367@plain.rackshack.net> <200701041648.41161.jkeating@redhat.com> Message-ID: <459F531E.9060506@redhat.com> Jesse Keating wrote: > > We're still fleshing out the details. One idea is that the customized spins > will be iso only, the exploaded tree will have everything in it. Any > customized spin will have the ability to enable the full repo during the > install and gain access to all the software there, likewise minimal boot or > rescue isos could be used to install from the large repo as well. Why not enable the entire repo by default in any install? Isn't that most logical? Warren Togami wtogami at redhat.com From tgl at redhat.com Sat Jan 6 07:46:20 2007 From: tgl at redhat.com (Tom Lane) Date: Sat, 06 Jan 2007 02:46:20 -0500 Subject: Fedora 7 In-Reply-To: <459F4DFA.6030002@redhat.com> References: <20070104195032.GE4693@nostromo.devel.redhat.com> <20070104205645.GA6194@hurricane.linuxnetz.de> <53532.65.223.36.19.1167945317.squirrel@thecodergeek.com> <459F4DFA.6030002@redhat.com> Message-ID: <27722.1168069580@sss.pgh.pa.us> Warren Togami writes: > .fc7 could refer to "Fedora Collection 7". +1 ... "f7" sounds way too much like the sort of tornado you don't want to encounter. regards, tom lane From warren at togami.com Sat Jan 6 07:48:34 2007 From: warren at togami.com (Warren Togami) Date: Sat, 06 Jan 2007 02:48:34 -0500 Subject: Fedora 7 In-Reply-To: <200701041749.33764.jkeating@redhat.com> References: <20070104195032.GE4693@nostromo.devel.redhat.com> <200701041647.21979.dennis@ausil.us> <200701041749.33764.jkeating@redhat.com> Message-ID: <459F5452.4080305@togami.com> Jesse Keating wrote: > On Thursday 04 January 2007 17:47, Dennis Gilmore wrote: >> Whats needed to add Fedora Directory Server to the List? that would be a >> great additional tool to have in F7 > > Somebody to be on the hook to make sure it gets done in time for the > deadlines. > > From Releases/7 page: > > I've got this great feature idea! > > OK. Are you going to work on it? Can you cajole/force someone else to be > Accountable? Then we'll add it! > > http://wtogami.livejournal.com/12517.html This todo list still applies to get FDS into Fedora proper. Toshio already did one part. Warren Togami wtogami at redhat.com From warren at togami.com Sat Jan 6 07:50:08 2007 From: warren at togami.com (Warren Togami) Date: Sat, 06 Jan 2007 02:50:08 -0500 Subject: Fedora 7 In-Reply-To: <20070104225630.GC2578@free.fr> References: <20070104195032.GE4693@nostromo.devel.redhat.com> <20070104225630.GC2578@free.fr> Message-ID: <459F54B0.8060701@togami.com> Patrice Dumas wrote: > On Thu, Jan 04, 2007 at 02:50:32PM -0500, Bill Nottingham wrote: >> And, what would a release be without features. We've identified >> 28 features that we'd like to include in the release, available >> at http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Releases/7/Features: > > It seemed to me that java 1.5 was also planned for fc7. Is it right? All parts of Sun Java will not be released until a time where it is far too late to be usable in Fedora 7. Sun Java might require additional work to be properly integrated, which is perhaps likely in Fedora 8. Warren Togami wtogami at redhat.com From wtogami at redhat.com Sat Jan 6 08:06:45 2007 From: wtogami at redhat.com (Warren Togami) Date: Sat, 06 Jan 2007 03:06:45 -0500 Subject: Fedora 7 In-Reply-To: References: <20070104195032.GE4693@nostromo.devel.redhat.com> <200701041613.50625.jkeating@redhat.com> <459D702A.8050705@fedoraproject.org> <200701041653.40217.jkeating@redhat.com> <1167952443.2847.8.camel@zelda.fubar.dk> Message-ID: <459F5895.7090907@redhat.com> Jason L Tibbitts III wrote: > > So? My comments weren't about gnome versus kde. I have no reason to > expect other than that portions of the project which receive the > greater number of developers from wherever in the community will make > the most progress. My comments are about whether Red Hat plans to be > just a part of the community, and your comments seem to answer than in > the negative. Which is directly contradictory to what other folks > from Red Hat have been saying. > More broadly... Fedora is not a democracy. Fedora is a meritocracy. Those who have done good work and the respect of their peers gain greater credibility in the project. These people who have earned trust from others exist at varying levels within the organization help to make decisions. Red Hat employees just happen to have many inputs into the Fedora Project as part of their regular jobs. One issue however that I see with this, is historic lack of inter-communication between the RH Desktop team and the community. The recent explosion on fedora-art-list is a salient example of this kind of conflict. A perceived corporate "outsider" who had not attempted to participate in the community prior, appeared suddenly with a heavy-handed power play, attempting to subvert the already in-progress community process. I did not appreciate David's attitude in that instance, and I think David has blown his response in this thread out of proportion. Really, please folks, just calm down. Fedora Desktop and Fedora KDE spins. Is that really so bad? Warren Togami wtogami at redhat.com From a.badger at gmail.com Sat Jan 6 08:07:48 2007 From: a.badger at gmail.com (Toshio Kuratomi) Date: Sat, 06 Jan 2007 00:07:48 -0800 Subject: Fedora Core 7 - Compiz vs Beryl In-Reply-To: References: <20070104212706.44899.qmail@web52412.mail.yahoo.com> <1167957394.2172.46.camel@dragon.valuecommerce.ne.jp> <1167970824.8614.2.camel@aurora.localdomain> <1167987945.3323.7.camel@localhost> <1168041504.4977.2.camel@aurora.localdomain> <1168061332.4104.515.camel@localhost.localdomain> Message-ID: <1168070868.14818.67.camel@localhost.localdomain> On Sat, 2007-01-06 at 01:03 -0500, Miles Lane wrote: > GConf editor is not a desktop user's configuration system. I'll > consider using Compiz when there is a graphic config system. Does > anyone know whether someone is developing a Compiz configuration > manager for KDE, or is Compiz considered to be solely targeted to the > Gnome environment? Luckily, GConf makes it extremely simple to write a configuration editor. Any python programmer could whip you out a configuration editor specific to compiz in a week or less. The problem is that configuration editors need UI love just as much as the main application. Have your wife/father/ten-year-old try to find a few *specific* options in Beryl and tweak them and you'll see what I mean. The interface exposes all the options but it doesn't organize it sanely. -Toshio -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: signature.asc Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 189 bytes Desc: This is a digitally signed message part URL: From a.badger at gmail.com Sat Jan 6 08:09:37 2007 From: a.badger at gmail.com (Toshio Kuratomi) Date: Sat, 06 Jan 2007 00:09:37 -0800 Subject: Fedora Core 7 - Compiz vs Beryl In-Reply-To: References: <20070104212706.44899.qmail@web52412.mail.yahoo.com> <1167957394.2172.46.camel@dragon.valuecommerce.ne.jp> <1167970824.8614.2.camel@aurora.localdomain> <1167987945.3323.7.camel@localhost> Message-ID: <1168070977.14818.69.camel@localhost.localdomain> On Fri, 2007-01-05 at 09:02 -0800, alan wrote: > On Fri, 5 Jan 2007, Peter Gordon wrote: > > That configurability comes at the cost of a disastrous UI and many cases > > of Not-Invented-Here syndrome (using flat files for storage instead of > > GConf, using its own themes instead of those of Metacity/Cairo/GTK, et. > > al). That, and the fact that the people of Beryl is purportedly much > > less strict about the quality and consistency of code accepted. > > I am not certain why gconf is a "better" solution. It makes moving users > from one version to another difficult. (More than once, I have had all > the configuration data tied up in the gconf blob. Not easy to say "pull > all the configuation for app x".) Gconf is just repeating the mistakes of > the Windows registry without the extra obfuscation of uid keys. > What do you mean by "pull all the configuration for app x"? If you mean tell me what is the configuration, try either of the following: gconftool-2 -R '/apps/gnotime' gconftool-2 --dump '/apps/gnotime' If you mean, get rid of your customizations, try: gconftool-2 --recursive-unset '/apps/gnotime' -Toshio -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: signature.asc Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 189 bytes Desc: This is a digitally signed message part URL: From sundaram at fedoraproject.org Sat Jan 6 08:21:39 2007 From: sundaram at fedoraproject.org (Rahul Sundaram) Date: Sat, 06 Jan 2007 13:51:39 +0530 Subject: Fedora 7 (Everything installs) In-Reply-To: <7873-SnapperMsg827D11E1C1C47D24@[70.6.76.140]> References: <20070104195032.GE4693@nostromo.devel.redhat.com> <7873-SnapperMsg827D11E1C1C47D24@[70.6.76.140]> Message-ID: <459F5C13.2020307@fedoraproject.org> Dax Kelson wrote: > ...... Original Message ....... > On Thu, 4 Jan 2007 14:50:32 -0500 "Bill Nottingham" > wrote: >> It's time to bite the bullet. >> >> Eliminate the distinction between Core and Extras entirely. > > Can we please restore the 'Everything' install package selection that > RHL/FC had for years? For which release? Server, GNOME, KDE? Tell us more details. Rahul From sundaram at fedoraproject.org Sat Jan 6 08:34:32 2007 From: sundaram at fedoraproject.org (Rahul Sundaram) Date: Sat, 06 Jan 2007 14:04:32 +0530 Subject: Fedora 7 In-Reply-To: <459F5895.7090907@redhat.com> References: <20070104195032.GE4693@nostromo.devel.redhat.com> <200701041613.50625.jkeating@redhat.com> <459D702A.8050705@fedoraproject.org> <200701041653.40217.jkeating@redhat.com> <1167952443.2847.8.camel@zelda.fubar.dk> <459F5895.7090907@redhat.com> Message-ID: <459F5F18.50808@fedoraproject.org> Warren Togami wrote: > > Fedora Desktop and Fedora KDE spins. Is that really so bad? > Yes it is. This kind of biased branding would lead to the perception GNOME is always going to be favored regardless of whether there is a active community around other desktop environments within Fedora. Granted, the number of GNOME developers within Fedora from Red Hat is going to ensure that we have a very well integrated GNOME desktop on Fedora but having a separate KDE (or XFCE, GNUStep, Enlightenment et all) releases gives more space for other active contributors to do the hard work they can and try to compete fiercely to provide the best possible experience within Fedora. Dont strike down that opportunity. I am not biased against GNOME or anything. I use it all the time. Doesnt mean we shouldnt strive to accommodate other preferences more. Rahul From sundaram at fedoraproject.org Sat Jan 6 08:36:16 2007 From: sundaram at fedoraproject.org (Rahul Sundaram) Date: Sat, 06 Jan 2007 14:06:16 +0530 Subject: Fedora 7 (Everything installs) In-Reply-To: <20070105224331.GA2961@thyrsus.com> References: <20070104195032.GE4693@nostromo.devel.redhat.com> <7873-SnapperMsg827D11E1C1C47D24@[70.6.76.140]> <1168036338.3561.22.camel@lt21223.campus.dmacc.edu> <20070105224331.GA2961@thyrsus.com> Message-ID: <459F5F80.4010309@fedoraproject.org> Eric S. Raymond wrote: > Jeffrey C. Ollie : >> While an "everything" install may have made some sense in the pre-Extras >> days, it's just silly now. There are so many packages in Core+Extras, >> many of which duplicate functionality. > > Nebvertheless, there are real uses for "install everything". Notably, > one can be working tools that are designed to audit the entire distribution. > When I test doclifter, I want the largest possible corpus of man pages to > work on. There are easy ways to do this with yum or kickstart even now. Rahul From fedora at leemhuis.info Sat Jan 6 08:59:35 2007 From: fedora at leemhuis.info (Thorsten Leemhuis) Date: Sat, 06 Jan 2007 09:59:35 +0100 Subject: Fedora 7 In-Reply-To: <459F5F18.50808@fedoraproject.org> References: <20070104195032.GE4693@nostromo.devel.redhat.com> <200701041613.50625.jkeating@redhat.com> <459D702A.8050705@fedoraproject.org> <200701041653.40217.jkeating@redhat.com> <1167952443.2847.8.camel@zelda.fubar.dk> <459F5895.7090907@redhat.com> <459F5F18.50808@fedoraproject.org> Message-ID: <459F64F7.3050303@leemhuis.info> Rahul Sundaram schrieb: > Warren Togami wrote: >> Fedora Desktop and Fedora KDE spins. Is that really so bad? > Yes it is. This kind of biased branding would lead to the perception > GNOME is always going to be favored regardless of whether there is a > active community around other desktop environments within Fedora. > > Granted, the number of GNOME developers within Fedora from Red Hat is > going to ensure that we have a very well integrated GNOME desktop on > Fedora but having a separate KDE (or XFCE, GNUStep, Enlightenment et > all) releases gives more space for other active contributors to do the > hard work they can and try to compete fiercely to provide the best > possible experience within Fedora. Dont strike down that opportunity. Fully agreed! Cu thl (gnome user) From buildsys at redhat.com Sat Jan 6 11:26:20 2007 From: buildsys at redhat.com (buildsys at redhat.com) Date: Sat, 6 Jan 2007 06:26:20 -0500 Subject: rawhide report: 20070106 changes Message-ID: <200701061126.l06BQKq6029123@hs20-bc2-6.build.redhat.com> Updated Packages: cpuspeed-1:1.2.1-1.47.fc7 ------------------------- * Fri Jan 05 2007 Jarod Wilson - Fix status and condrestart for centrino/powernow-k8 (#219926) - Give feedback when loading/unloading a cpufreq governor - Rework config file and initscript to make it much easier for end-users to adjust frequency scaling setup - Log start/stop events with useful info - Don't start on xen kernels (freq scaling not supported) cvs-1.11.22-8.fc7 ----------------- * Fri Jan 05 2007 Jindrich Novy -1.11.22-8 - fix post/preun scriptlets so that they won't fail with docs disabled * Fri Dec 01 2006 Jindrich Novy - 1.11.22-7 - remove/replace obsolete rpm tags, fix rpmlint errors evolution-sharp-0.12.1-2.fc7 ---------------------------- * Fri Jan 05 2007 Matthew Barnes - 0.12.1-2.fc7 - Add patch for RH bug #221555 (wrong install directory). - Fix location of mono files to conform to packaging guidelines. foomatic-3.0.2-43.fc7 --------------------- * Fri Jan 05 2007 Tim Waugh 3.0.2-43 - Updated db to 3.0-20070105 (bug #214037, bug #191661, bug #198999, bug #191504, bug #187387, bug #188762, bug #170373, bug #221121, bug #214801). gcc-4.1.1-52 ------------ * Fri Jan 05 2007 Jakub Jelinek 4.1.1-52 - update from gcc-4_1-branch (-r120325:120507) - PRs c++/30382, middle-end/27826, middle-end/28116, tree-optimization/30212 gtk2-2.10.7-1.fc7 ----------------- * Thu Dec 21 2006 Matthias Clasen - 2.10.4-9 - Make gdk_pixbuf_loader_close() idempotent - Always emit the closed signal when the loader is closed * Thu Dec 21 2006 Matthias Clasen - 2.10.6-8 - Make update scripts handle slight variations in $host * Sat Dec 09 2006 Matthias Clasen - 2.10.6-7 - Fix error handling in pixbuf loaders (#218755) - Fix clipping of mnemonic underlines (#218615) - Give accessible names to message dialogs (#215472) - Fix a crash in the handling of invalid icon themes (#218247) - Make the print dialog work when the 'BrowseShortNames Off' cups option is used (#217220) jwhois-3.2.3-10 --------------- * Sat Jan 06 2007 Miloslav Trmac - 3.2.3-10 - Add automatic redirection for .com and .net domains (patch by Wolfgang Rupprecht ) Resolves: #221668 - Update to upstream config as of Jan 6 2007 kexec-tools-1.101-56.fc7 ------------------------ * Thu Jan 04 2007 Neil Horman - 1.101-56.fc7 - Fix option parsing problem for bzImage files (bz 221272) * Fri Dec 15 2006 Neil Horman - 1.101-55.fc7 - Wholesale update of RHEL5 revisions 55-147 * Tue Aug 29 2006 Neil Horman - 1.101-54.fc7 - integrate default elf format patch libICE-1.0.3-1.fc7 ------------------ * Fri Jan 05 2007 Adam Jackson 1.0.3-1 - Update to 1.0.3 libXScrnSaver-1.1.2-1.fc7 ------------------------- * Fri Jan 05 2007 Adam Jackson 1.1.2-1 - Update to 1.1.2 libXau-1.0.3-1.fc7 ------------------ * Fri Jan 05 2007 Adam Jackson 1.0.3-1 - Update to 1.0.3 libXfont-1.2.6-1.fc7 -------------------- * Fri Jan 05 2007 Adam Jackson 1.2.6-1 - Update to 1.2.6 libXfontcache-1.0.4-1.fc7 ------------------------- * Fri Jan 05 2007 Adam Jackson 1.0.4-1 - Update to 1.0.4 libXft-2.1.12-1.fc7 ------------------- * Fri Jan 05 2007 Adam Jackson 2.1.12-1.fc7 - Update to 2.1.12 libXv-1.0.3-1.fc7 ----------------- * Fri Jan 05 2007 Adam Jackson 1.0.3-1 - Update to 1.0.3 libXvMC-1.0.4-1.fc7 ------------------- * Fri Jan 05 2007 Adam Jackson 1.0.4-1 - Update to 1.0.4 libfontenc-1.0.4-1.fc7 ---------------------- * Fri Jan 05 2007 Adam Jackson 1.0.4-1 - Update to 1.0.4 libselinux-1.33.3-2.fc7 ----------------------- * Fri Jan 05 2007 Dan Walsh - 1.33.3-2 - Add securetty handling Resolves: #200110 logrotate-3.7.4-8.fc7 --------------------- * Fri Jan 05 2007 Peter Vrabec 3.7.4-8 - "size" option was ignored in config files (#221341) logwatch-7.3.2-2.fc7 -------------------- * Fri Jan 05 2007 Ivana Varekova 7.3.2-2 - Resolves: 221576 add html conf files * Thu Dec 21 2006 Ivana Varekova 7.3.2-1 - update to 7.3.2 - remove obsolete patches openoffice.org-1:2.1.0-6.10 --------------------------- * Wed Jan 03 2007 Caolan McNamara - 1:2.1.0-6.10 - Resolves: rhbz#216094 add workspace.impress115.patch * Wed Dec 20 2006 Caolan McNamara - 1:2.1.0-6.9 - still need openoffice.org-2.1.0.gccXXXXX.basegfx.crash.patch for rh#199870# - experiment and drop -fno-threadsafe-statics * Mon Dec 18 2006 Caolan McNamara - 1:2.1.0-6.8 - rename and appropiately merge commited patches as their respective workspaces - drop rh200118.filter.xalanbroken.patch - try and drop + openoffice.org-2.0.3.gccXXXXX.basegfx.crash.patch + openoffice.org-2.0.4.gccXXXXX.svtools.fsstorage.patch policycoreutils-1.33.8-1.fc7 ---------------------------- * Fri Jan 05 2007 Dan Walsh 1.33.8-2 - Stop newrole -l from working on non secure ttys Resolves: #200110 * Thu Jan 04 2007 Dan Walsh 1.33.8-1 - Update to upstream * Merged patches from Dan Walsh to: - omit the optional name from audit2allow - use the installed python version in the Makefiles - re-open the tty with O_RDWR in newrole * Wed Jan 03 2007 Dan Walsh 1.33.7-1 - Update to upstream * Patch from Dan Walsh to correctly suppress warnings in load_policy. screen-4.0.3-2.fc7 ------------------ * Fri Jan 05 2007 Marcela Maslanova - 4.0.3-2 - rebuilt (change in spec file) texi2html-1.76-6.fc7 -------------------- * Fri Jan 05 2007 Jindrich Novy 1.76-6 - fix post/preun scriptlets so that they won't fail with docs disabled (thanks to Ville Skytt??) * Wed Nov 29 2006 Jindrich Novy 1.76-5 - replace PreReq, fix BuildRoot xorg-x11-drv-fbdev-0.3.1-1.fc7 ------------------------------ * Fri Jan 05 2007 Adam Jackson 0.3.1-1 - Update to 0.3.1 xorg-x11-drv-mga-1.4.6.1-1.fc7 ------------------------------ * Fri Jan 05 2007 Adam Jackson 1.4.6.1-1 - Update to 1.4.6.1 xorg-x11-drv-nv-1.2.2.1-1.fc7 ----------------------------- * Fri Jan 05 2007 Adam Jackson 1.2.2.1-1 - Update to 1.2.2.1 xorg-x11-drv-rendition-4.1.3-1.fc7 ---------------------------------- * Fri Jan 05 2007 Adam Jackson 4.1.3-1 - Update to 4.1.3 xorg-x11-drv-vmware-10.14.1-1.fc7 --------------------------------- * Fri Jan 05 2007 Adam Jackson 10.14.1-1.fc7 - Update to 10.14.1 xorg-x11-proto-devel-7.1-11.fc7 ------------------------------- * Fri Jan 05 2007 Adam Jackson 7.1-11 - xproto 7.0.10 xorg-x11-util-macros-1.1.5-1.fc7 -------------------------------- * Fri Jan 05 2007 Adam Jackson 1.1.5-1 - Update to 1.1.5 xorg-x11-xauth-1:1.0.2-1.fc7 ---------------------------- * Fri Jan 05 2007 Adam Jackson 1:1.0.2-1.fc7 - Update to 1.0.2 xorg-x11-xdm-1:1.1.3-1.fc7 -------------------------- * Fri Jan 05 2007 Adam Jackson 1:1.1.3-1 - Update to 1.1.3 xorg-x11-xtrans-devel-1.0.3-1.fc7 --------------------------------- * Fri Jan 05 2007 Adam Jackson 1.0.3-1 - Update to 1.0.3 Broken deps for s390 ---------------------------------------------------------- systemtap - 0.5.10-1.fc7.s390 requires kernel >= 0:2.6.9-11 systemtap-runtime - 0.5.10-1.fc7.s390 requires kernel >= 0:2.6.9-11 From jkeating at redhat.com Sat Jan 6 12:34:18 2007 From: jkeating at redhat.com (Jesse Keating) Date: Sat, 6 Jan 2007 07:34:18 -0500 Subject: Fedora 7 In-Reply-To: <459F5F18.50808@fedoraproject.org> References: <20070104195032.GE4693@nostromo.devel.redhat.com> <459F5895.7090907@redhat.com> <459F5F18.50808@fedoraproject.org> Message-ID: <200701060734.25783.jkeating@redhat.com> On Saturday 06 January 2007 03:34, Rahul Sundaram wrote: > Yes it is. This kind of biased branding would lead to the perception > GNOME is always going to be favored regardless of whether there is a > active community around other desktop environments within Fedora. > > Granted, the number of GNOME developers within Fedora from Red Hat is > going to ensure that we have a very well integrated GNOME desktop on > Fedora but having a separate KDE (or XFCE, GNUStep, Enlightenment et > all) releases gives more space for other active contributors to do the > hard work they can and try to compete fiercely to provide the best > possible experience within Fedora. ?Dont strike down that opportunity. > > I am not biased against GNOME or anything. I use it all the time. Doesnt > mean we shouldnt strive to accommodate other preferences more. No, it really doesn't. Calling it Fedora Desktop means that this is the best desktop we're putting forward. This is where the vast majority of integration work happens, where upstream participation is geared toward, where the majority of QA goes, etc, etc... In some magical world where a few years down the road this changes and we put it all into KDE for a while and KDE gets to the same level as GNOME for us, we make the switch in our Fedora Desktop spin, as now KDE is where all the above happens. End users continue to want a well oiled integrated desktop, and thus choose the Fedora Desktop spin. We want to name based on functionality, not on what particular software is used. Take a look at your menu system for example, Calculator, Dictionary, Terminal, Web Browser, etc... End users need not care what actual app their using, and if they did care, Help -> About. We need to get easily translatable names for the things we do, so that it isn't a mystery what a spin is for, it is very clear. -- Jesse Keating Release Engineer: Fedora -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 189 bytes Desc: not available URL: From jkeating at redhat.com Sat Jan 6 12:36:32 2007 From: jkeating at redhat.com (Jesse Keating) Date: Sat, 6 Jan 2007 07:36:32 -0500 Subject: Fedora 7 In-Reply-To: <459F531E.9060506@redhat.com> References: <20070104195032.GE4693@nostromo.devel.redhat.com> <200701041648.41161.jkeating@redhat.com> <459F531E.9060506@redhat.com> Message-ID: <200701060736.32795.jkeating@redhat.com> On Saturday 06 January 2007 02:43, Warren Togami wrote: > Why not enable the entire repo by default in any install? ?Isn't that > most logical? Because that assumes that every install has network capabilities, and that ever package in the entire repo comps would be marked as optional so that by default nothing would get downloaded. Those are pretty heavy requirements. -- Jesse Keating Release Engineer: Fedora -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 189 bytes Desc: not available URL: From sundaram at fedoraproject.org Sat Jan 6 12:52:12 2007 From: sundaram at fedoraproject.org (Rahul Sundaram) Date: Sat, 06 Jan 2007 18:22:12 +0530 Subject: Fedora 7 In-Reply-To: <200701060734.25783.jkeating@redhat.com> References: <20070104195032.GE4693@nostromo.devel.redhat.com> <459F5895.7090907@redhat.com> <459F5F18.50808@fedoraproject.org> <200701060734.25783.jkeating@redhat.com> Message-ID: <459F9B7C.6040000@fedoraproject.org> Jesse Keating wrote: > No, it really doesn't. Calling it Fedora Desktop means that this is the best > desktop we're putting forward. This is where the vast majority of > integration work happens, where upstream participation is geared toward, > where the majority of QA goes, etc, etc... > > In some magical world where a few years down the road this changes and we put > it all into KDE for a while and KDE gets to the same level as GNOME for us, > we make the switch in our Fedora Desktop spin, as now KDE is where all the > above happens. Are we aiming for a equivalent footing or not? If we are then the branding should be a reflection of that. The problem with selecting a release name based on a alleged current shortage of community resources is that the perception would make it a permanent thing. Like calling Fedora a beta would make it a excuse for bad bugs in the release. You dont get much of a second chance to change perception some time in the future yet again. Heck, we are *still* getting badly burned by poor messaging in the past. Have we not learned anything from that? End users continue to want a well oiled integrated desktop, > and thus choose the Fedora Desktop spin. We want to name based on > functionality, not on what particular software is used. So why is one of the spins called Fedora KDE? How is it *not* a Fedora Desktop? What about when someone wants to do a Fedora Desktop spin based on another of those alternative desktop environments, windows managers? Take a look at your > menu system for example, Calculator, Dictionary, Terminal, Web Browser, > etc... End users need not care what actual app their using, and if they did > care, Help -> About. That's true for GNOME currently. Not for the KDE menu in Fedora. Do take a look. We need to get easily translatable names for the things > we do, so that it isn't a mystery what a spin is for, it is very clear. Sure. I have been a translator before. Have release names such as Fedora GNOME Desktop and Fedora KDE Desktop is very well translatable. No, I am not talking about volume ids and iso filenames here. Rahul From jkeating at redhat.com Sat Jan 6 13:13:30 2007 From: jkeating at redhat.com (Jesse Keating) Date: Sat, 6 Jan 2007 08:13:30 -0500 Subject: Fedora 7 In-Reply-To: <459F9B7C.6040000@fedoraproject.org> References: <20070104195032.GE4693@nostromo.devel.redhat.com> <200701060734.25783.jkeating@redhat.com> <459F9B7C.6040000@fedoraproject.org> Message-ID: <200701060813.30545.jkeating@redhat.com> On Saturday 06 January 2007 07:52, Rahul Sundaram wrote: > Are we aiming for a equivalent footing or not? If we are then the > branding should be a reflection of that. The problem with selecting a > release name based on a alleged current shortage of community resources > is that the perception would make it a permanent thing. Like calling > Fedora a beta would make it a excuse for bad bugs in the release. You > dont get much of a second chance to change perception some time in the > future yet again. Heck, we are *still* getting badly burned by poor > messaging in the past. Have we not learned anything from that? You and I just disagree that this is bad messaging. Whether we're aiming for equal footing or not, it just isn't there right now. And to be honest, putting a lot of effort into making them equal is not going to happen from the Red Hat resources. We've picked our desktop, what we want to put our efforts behind for our RHEL product line. For our product, multiple desktops just fractures our userbase, doubles our support needs, weakens the product overall as it takes away resources better spent on total integration. For that reason, the vast majority of Red Hat contribution to the Fedora Community is going to be around the gnome desktop. I don't likely see this changing in the foreseeable future. Will there come a time that the non Red Hat contribution to the Fedora Community around KDE will outsurpass and outshine the Red Hat contribution to the Fedora community around Gnome? I don't think so, any time soon. > ? End users continue to want a well oiled integrated desktop, > > > and thus choose the Fedora Desktop spin. ?We want to name based on > > functionality, not on what particular software is used. ? > > So why is one of the spins called Fedora KDE? Because it is a targetted spin for a particular peice of software, much like an eclipse spin or XFCE spin or asterisk spin. > How is it *not* a Fedora > Desktop? At this point it is not THE Fedora desktop. Its not what we want to flaunt, have reviews written about, be judged upon, etc. It is a startup, and needs a lot of work/time to get to the polish / integration level we have with gnome, our premier desktop. > What about when someone wants to do a Fedora Desktop spin based > on another of those alternative desktop environments, windows managers? ee above. > Take a look at your > > > menu system for example, Calculator, Dictionary, Terminal, Web Browser, > > etc... ?End users need not care what actual app their using, and if they > > did care, Help -> About. > > That's true for GNOME currently. Not for the KDE menu in Fedora. Do take > a look. You say this as if it's a good thing, I see this as another fact that KDE isn't really designed for the mass userbase. How in gods green earth is somebody supposed to look at a KDE menu and know that Konqueror is for browsing the web? That "Kate" is for writing text files? -- Jesse Keating Release Engineer: Fedora -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 189 bytes Desc: not available URL: From sundaram at fedoraproject.org Sat Jan 6 13:31:09 2007 From: sundaram at fedoraproject.org (Rahul Sundaram) Date: Sat, 06 Jan 2007 19:01:09 +0530 Subject: Fedora 7 In-Reply-To: <200701060813.30545.jkeating@redhat.com> References: <20070104195032.GE4693@nostromo.devel.redhat.com> <200701060734.25783.jkeating@redhat.com> <459F9B7C.6040000@fedoraproject.org> <200701060813.30545.jkeating@redhat.com> Message-ID: <459FA49D.90106@fedoraproject.org> Jesse Keating wrote: > > You and I just disagree that this is bad messaging. Whether we're aiming for > equal footing or not, it just isn't there right now. And to be honest, > putting a lot of effort into making them equal is not going to happen from > the Red Hat resources. That may be true but I am not expecting Red Hat to do all the work in Fedora. We dont have a community if that was true. Luckily there is a enthusiastic and active community around KDE in Fedora. http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Extras/SIGs/KDE We've picked our desktop, what we want to put our > efforts behind for our RHEL product line. For our product, multiple desktops > just fractures our userbase, doubles our support needs, weakens the product > overall as it takes away resources better spent on total integration. RHEL includes both GNOME and KDE. Red Hat is going to have to support them both. It might not make sense of engineering to do the additional work. Yes, it does escalate support costs but we already have made that choice due to customer demands. The same case for including three different MTA's - sendmail, postfix and exim or anything in which we provide more than one implementation of similar technologies. For > that reason, the vast majority of Red Hat contribution to the Fedora > Community is going to be around the gnome desktop. I don't likely see this > changing in the foreseeable future. Yes. I am already aware of that. Will there come a time that the non Red > Hat contribution to the Fedora Community around KDE will outsurpass and > outshine the Red Hat contribution to the Fedora community around Gnome? I > don't think so, any time soon. Maybe but what we are doing now is not going to encourage them. > Because it is a targetted spin for a particular peice of software, much like > an eclipse spin or XFCE spin or asterisk spin. Yes, thats true for both a server and GNOME spin. Every different spin is targeted towards a particular set of users. >> How is it *not* a Fedora >> Desktop? > > At this point it is not THE Fedora desktop. Its not what we want to flaunt, > have reviews written about, be judged upon, etc. It is a startup, and needs > a lot of work/time to get to the polish / integration level we have with > gnome, our premier desktop. Just because you call the spin, Fedora KDE doesnt mean people arent going to flaunt, review or judge it. > You say this as if it's a good thing, I see this as another fact that KDE > isn't really designed for the mass userbase. How in gods green earth is > somebody supposed to look at a KDE menu and know that Konqueror is for > browsing the web? That "Kate" is for writing text files? So why havent we fixed up the menu to be meaningful? Yeah right, because we didnt have enough resources or we just have not cared. This is exactly the sort of things opening it up to the community and doing a targeted spin is supposed to fix. Rahul From jkeating at redhat.com Sat Jan 6 13:42:30 2007 From: jkeating at redhat.com (Jesse Keating) Date: Sat, 6 Jan 2007 08:42:30 -0500 Subject: Fedora 7 In-Reply-To: <459FA49D.90106@fedoraproject.org> References: <20070104195032.GE4693@nostromo.devel.redhat.com> <200701060813.30545.jkeating@redhat.com> <459FA49D.90106@fedoraproject.org> Message-ID: <200701060842.31046.jkeating@redhat.com> On Saturday 06 January 2007 08:31, Rahul Sundaram wrote: > So why havent we fixed up the menu to be meaningful? Yeah right, because > ? we didnt have enough resources or we just have not cared. This is > exactly the sort of things opening it up to the community and doing a > targeted spin is supposed to fix. Or it could possibly be that upstream doesn't WANT the menu to be "fixed". Perhaps they don't agree with our views. In Fedora we try to stay with upstream, and make our changes there, or make sure our changes get there. What we don't want to get to again is calling something KDE but changing it drastically from what the upstream KDE looks/feels like. That doesn't win you any users, all it does is piss off the people who want the real KDE. I'm tired of this argument already. I'll call the spin whatever the board decides they want it references as. It shows up at installer boot time, sometimes during the install, and whatever materials reference the iso set. Not that huge of a deal, you have my opinion on the matter. -- Jesse Keating Release Engineer: Fedora -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 189 bytes Desc: not available URL: From rdieter at math.unl.edu Sat Jan 6 14:12:41 2007 From: rdieter at math.unl.edu (Rex Dieter) Date: Sat, 06 Jan 2007 08:12:41 -0600 Subject: Fedora 7 In-Reply-To: <459FA49D.90106@fedoraproject.org> References: <20070104195032.GE4693@nostromo.devel.redhat.com> <200701060734.25783.jkeating@redhat.com> <459F9B7C.6040000@fedoraproject.org> <200701060813.30545.jkeating@redhat.com> <459FA49D.90106@fedoraproject.org> Message-ID: <459FAE59.9040303@math.unl.edu> Rahul Sundaram wrote: > Jesse Keating wrote: >> You say this as if it's a good thing, I see this as another fact that >> KDE isn't really designed for the mass userbase. How in gods green >> earth is somebody supposed to look at a KDE menu and know that >> Konqueror is for browsing the web? That "Kate" is for writing text >> files? > > So why havent we fixed up the menu to be meaningful? KDE doesn't *need* fixing, it isn't broke. Konq already (can) display as Konqueror Web Browswer IMO, the fact that other apps (and gnome) in Fedora does this differently by abusing Name= vs. GenericName= in .desktip files is bad/wrong/silly/bug. As long as I have any input on it, * KDE will not go down that road, ever. * Packaging Guidelines should be updated highlight/avoid such abuse -- Rex From ghisha at email.it Sat Jan 6 13:39:38 2007 From: ghisha at email.it (Giandomenico De Tullio) Date: Sat, 06 Jan 2007 14:39:38 +0100 Subject: Fedora 7 In-Reply-To: <20070105200137.GM28367@plain.rackshack.net> References: <20070104195032.GE4693@nostromo.devel.redhat.com> <459E20D7.9020307@gmail.com> <200701050820.28298.jkeating@redhat.com> <459E5DA4.6080107@gmail.com> <20070105150153.GA13767@jadzia.bu.edu> <459E6914.3020706@fedoraproject.org> <20070105152944.GA15663@jadzia.bu.edu> <459E7FF7.80102@fedoraproject.org> <459E8898.1020102@leemhuis.info> <20070105200137.GM28367@plain.rackshack.net> Message-ID: <459FA69A.4050500@email.it> Rudi Chiarito ha scritto: > On Fri, Jan 05, 2007 at 06:19:20PM +0100, Thorsten Leemhuis wrote: >> What I'd like to see is some sort of yum-proxy to save bandwidth for >> users. E.g. let some sort of yum-procy run on a local network server; >> fill it's cache with what you have already from the distribution cd; >> clients connect to the proxy; if the package is in the cache send it >> back; otherwise download it from the web, send it over, and put it in >> the cache; now and then check if a package is still in the upstream >> repos; if not, drop it from the cache. > > Even better would be the use of mDNS and DNS-SD to search for such a > proxy. This way, you don't need to hardcode anything in configuration > files. FYI: http://freshmeat.net/projects/apt-zeroconf/ > Instead of a proxy, one could also use DNS-SD to implement something > closer to the P2P model, where machines on a local network search for > any neighbour systems that have already downloaded updates, basically > sharing the yum cache. > -- Email.it, the professional e-mail, gratis per te: http://www.email.it/f Sponsor: Problemi di Liquidit?? Con Logos Finanziaria 30.000 ? in 24 ore a dipendenti e lavoratori autonomi con rimborsi fino a 120 mesi clicca qui * Clicca qui: http://adv.email.it/cgi-bin/foclick.cgi?mid=2907&d=6-1 From pp at ee.oulu.fi Sat Jan 6 14:44:19 2007 From: pp at ee.oulu.fi (Pekka Pietikainen) Date: Sat, 6 Jan 2007 16:44:19 +0200 Subject: NetworkManager use cases (was: Re: Fedora 7) In-Reply-To: <20070105145417.GA14720@dspnet.fr.eu.org> Message-ID: <20070106144418.GA11494@ee.oulu.fi> On Fri, Jan 05, 2007 at 03:54:17PM +0100, Olivier Galibert wrote: > Even on laptops you can have fun scenarios, for instance I've more > than once used my laptop which was connected to an hotel's internet > through ethernet as a wifi relay for my SO's laptop. So don't forget > ad-hoc wifi connections, masquerading and forwarding ;-) Yep. I have fun scenarios on laptops all the time Wireless is usually the way out, and when I plug something into the wired port it's often just a point-to-point connection to some device that I need to talk to. Some times there might be a dhcp/tftp server running on that interface (so, say I can do a PXE network install of my laptop), That or I want to transfer a file fast from some machine on the wired network over GigE, some times configuring the interface manually, some times with DHCP. Since this happens pretty regularly, I can't really use NM. + bugzilla #209009 + something bad with NM & aironet scanning, so it only sees one AP for a long time after resuming the laptop (iwlist eth1 scan shows everything. Not sure if it's actually an applet thing, if I manually tell it to join a network that works fine. Maybe some command line scripts for controlling NM would be useful. nm-join-network and it'd then try very hard to connect to that network. nm-freeze-config and it'd stop trying to change the network config even if I plug/unplug a cable. Well, those are my use cases, probably pretty rare in general, but it's what I need personally ;) Well ok, occasionally there's the need for having an ad-hoc wlan + sharing a GPRS/3G bluetooth connection. Typically requiring some RTFM to figure out what the iptables masquerade syntax was again :) I would love some connection sharing configuration thingy. Outside the scope of NM, sure, but if NM is to be the way to configure all network devices at some point, such an application should interact well with it :) -- Pekka Pietikainen From dennis at ausil.us Sat Jan 6 14:53:59 2007 From: dennis at ausil.us (Dennis Gilmore) Date: Sat, 6 Jan 2007 08:53:59 -0600 Subject: Fedora 7 In-Reply-To: <459F5452.4080305@togami.com> References: <20070104195032.GE4693@nostromo.devel.redhat.com> <200701041749.33764.jkeating@redhat.com> <459F5452.4080305@togami.com> Message-ID: <200701060854.00427.dennis@ausil.us> On Saturday 06 January 2007 1:48 am, Warren Togami wrote: > Jesse Keating wrote: > > OK. Are you going to work on it? Can you cajole/force someone else to be > > Accountable? Then we'll add it! Ive added FDS to the list ;) > http://wtogami.livejournal.com/12517.html > This todo list still applies to get FDS into Fedora proper. Toshio > already did one part. When talking to the developers of FDS yesterday We may hit a snag. the java bits. still need suns java. Red Hat's Java team have made them build with gcj but they don't run 100% yet with it. So we will have everything for the ldap server in but we may not be able to get the admin tools in. So if we have any Java developers looking for something to do. We could use help porting the admin console to gcj. -- Dennis Gilmore, RHCE Proud Australian From drago01 at gmail.com Sat Jan 6 15:47:17 2007 From: drago01 at gmail.com (dragoran) Date: Sat, 06 Jan 2007 16:47:17 +0100 Subject: Fedora 7 In-Reply-To: <20070104195032.GE4693@nostromo.devel.redhat.com> References: <20070104195032.GE4693@nostromo.devel.redhat.com> Message-ID: <459FC485.3010809@gmail.com> Bill Nottingham wrote: > [...] > - Modify the build system to support this new paradigm > - Merge Core and Extras in source control > - Use the new pungi tool to spin all releases > - A Fedora Desktop spin > - A Fedora Server spin > - A Fedora KDE spin > - Make LiveCDs as a part of the distribution release process > - Ability to customize non-packaging distrubution parameters > - Switch to libata drivers for PATA support > - Speedup of bootup and shutdown > - Make wireless rock-solid > - Add wireless firmware for all the chipsets we can > - CodecBuddy > - Fixing the proliferation of dictionary packages > - Support encrypted filesystems > - Fast user switching in the desktop > - Fix the firewire stack > - Switch to a tickless kernel by default > - Fix unnecessary wakeups across the distribution > - Add KVM virtualization support to our tools > - Investigate (but probably don't switch to) new init technologies > - Add the nouveau drivers for nVidia cards > - Speed up Yum and RPM > - Add support for RandR 1.2 > - Switch to syslog-ng > - Make the update system useable by all > > can we add this to the list: make yum/pirut able to install software from media (cd/dvd) ? This was on the TODO list since FC5 is out and its still not fixed I know that this works by setting up a local repo but this isn't really a option (for new users) and requiring a broadband connection to install software will let some users switch to or even back to windows. From overholt at redhat.com Sat Jan 6 15:47:16 2007 From: overholt at redhat.com (Andrew Overholt) Date: Sat, 06 Jan 2007 10:47:16 -0500 Subject: Fedora 7 In-Reply-To: <200701060854.00427.dennis@ausil.us> References: <20070104195032.GE4693@nostromo.devel.redhat.com> <200701041749.33764.jkeating@redhat.com> <459F5452.4080305@togami.com> <200701060854.00427.dennis@ausil.us> Message-ID: <1168098436.19008.2.camel@localhost.localdomain> On Sat, 2007-06-01 at 08:53 -0600, Dennis Gilmore wrote: > When talking to the developers of FDS yesterday We may hit a snag. the java > bits. still need suns java. Red Hat's Java team have made them build with > gcj but they don't run 100% yet with it. I'm pretty sure Tom Fitzsimmons told me that things do indeed work. Tom? Andrew -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: signature.asc Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 189 bytes Desc: This is a digitally signed message part URL: From overholt at redhat.com Sat Jan 6 15:47:55 2007 From: overholt at redhat.com (Andrew Overholt) Date: Sat, 06 Jan 2007 10:47:55 -0500 Subject: Fedora 7 In-Reply-To: <459F54B0.8060701@togami.com> References: <20070104195032.GE4693@nostromo.devel.redhat.com> <20070104225630.GC2578@free.fr> <459F54B0.8060701@togami.com> Message-ID: <1168098475.19008.4.camel@localhost.localdomain> On Sat, 2007-06-01 at 02:50 -0500, Warren Togami wrote: > Patrice Dumas wrote: > > On Thu, Jan 04, 2007 at 02:50:32PM -0500, Bill Nottingham wrote: > >> And, what would a release be without features. We've identified > >> 28 features that we'd like to include in the release, available > >> at http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Releases/7/Features: > > > > It seemed to me that java 1.5 was also planned for fc7. Is it right? > > All parts of Sun Java will not be released until a time where it is far > too late to be usable in Fedora 7. Sun Java might require additional > work to be properly integrated, which is perhaps likely in Fedora 8. I think he means 1.5 language support in gcj et al. Andrew -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: signature.asc Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 189 bytes Desc: This is a digitally signed message part URL: From overholt at redhat.com Sat Jan 6 15:48:29 2007 From: overholt at redhat.com (Andrew Overholt) Date: Sat, 06 Jan 2007 10:48:29 -0500 Subject: Fedora 7 In-Reply-To: <200701051304.47703.jkeating@redhat.com> References: <20070104195032.GE4693@nostromo.devel.redhat.com> <20070104225630.GC2578@free.fr> <20070105172135.GA16497@redhat.com> <200701051304.47703.jkeating@redhat.com> Message-ID: <1168098509.19008.6.camel@localhost.localdomain> On Fri, 2007-05-01 at 13:04 -0500, Jesse Keating wrote: > On Friday 05 January 2007 12:21, Andrew Overholt wrote: > > On a somewhat related note, we put the Eclipse plans for F7 here: > > > > http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/F7EclipsePlans > > > > I've added the category to make it appear on the above page. > > Can the n-v-r be fixed to adhere to the guidelines sooner rather than later? > (: It already is and has been for a while. It's JPackage-inherited packages that need fixing. Andrew -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: signature.asc Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 189 bytes Desc: This is a digitally signed message part URL: From jkeating at redhat.com Sat Jan 6 16:04:28 2007 From: jkeating at redhat.com (Jesse Keating) Date: Sat, 6 Jan 2007 11:04:28 -0500 Subject: Fedora 7 In-Reply-To: <1168098509.19008.6.camel@localhost.localdomain> References: <20070104195032.GE4693@nostromo.devel.redhat.com> <200701051304.47703.jkeating@redhat.com> <1168098509.19008.6.camel@localhost.localdomain> Message-ID: <200701061104.31638.jkeating@redhat.com> On Saturday 06 January 2007 10:48, Andrew Overholt wrote: > > Can the n-v-r be fixed to adhere to the guidelines sooner rather than > > later? ? (: > > It already is and has been for a while. ?It's JPackage-inherited > packages that need fixing. I must have been looking at an old version, sorry about that. -- Jesse Keating Release Engineer: Fedora -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 189 bytes Desc: not available URL: From jnovy at redhat.com Sat Jan 6 15:46:53 2007 From: jnovy at redhat.com (Jindrich Novy) Date: Sat, 06 Jan 2007 16:46:53 +0100 Subject: Fedora 7 (TeTeX) In-Reply-To: <20070105190713.GD22204@nostromo.devel.redhat.com> References: <20070104195032.GE4693@nostromo.devel.redhat.com> <459D6E03.5030702@di.uminho.pt> <459D6DDB.6050102@fedoraproject.org> <20070105025437.GM10665@nostromo.devel.redhat.com> <1168001270.4498.16.camel@redhat.usu> <20070105190713.GD22204@nostromo.devel.redhat.com> Message-ID: <1168098413.5948.17.camel@redhat.usu> On Fri, 2007-01-05 at 14:07 -0500, Bill Nottingham wrote: > Jindrich Novy (jnovy at redhat.com) said: > > > What needs to happen is that someone needs to Step Up and claim > > > repsonsibility for these things with a plan for fixing them (on > > > fedora-devel-list, and then on the wiki). I'm perfectly willing > > > to add features to the list, but we need people who are going > > > to be accountable for them. > > > > Please do. Feel free to add the Releases/FeatureTexLive to the list of > > features for F7 assigning me there as an owner, with "Needs done by: > > Test2". > > *cough* It's a wiki. :) heh, done ;-) From jnovy at redhat.com Sat Jan 6 16:00:48 2007 From: jnovy at redhat.com (Jindrich Novy) Date: Sat, 06 Jan 2007 17:00:48 +0100 Subject: Fedora 7 (TeTeX) In-Reply-To: <604aa7910701051445n4cdd9e83l7442eff74e32700@mail.gmail.com> References: <20070104195032.GE4693@nostromo.devel.redhat.com> <459D6E03.5030702@di.uminho.pt> <1168000470.4498.10.camel@redhat.usu> <604aa7910701051445n4cdd9e83l7442eff74e32700@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <1168099249.5948.29.camel@redhat.usu> On Fri, 2007-01-05 at 13:45 -0900, Jeff Spaleta wrote: > On 1/5/07, Jindrich Novy wrote: > > I'm still in close contact with TeXLive upstream and the current work is > > focused on how to package it in the best way. > > Are you looking for community co-maintainers to help you out with this > after the core+extras merge? The tex stack is pretty important for > scientific publications, there are probably several competent > contributors out here on the other side of the fenceline who are > concerned enough to invest time in keeping the functionality working. Definitely, the community involvement here is appreciated as I cannot cover all the TeX features because of their vast range, so I'm really open to any suggestions/testings/proposals from you guys. Feel free to subscribe to freshly created feature page if you want to help or to stay informed: http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Releases/FeatureTexLive Jindrich From drago01 at gmail.com Sat Jan 6 16:31:13 2007 From: drago01 at gmail.com (dragoran) Date: Sat, 06 Jan 2007 17:31:13 +0100 Subject: Fedora Core 7 - Compiz vs Beryl In-Reply-To: <459EC827.8010106@poolshark.org> References: <200701052007.l05K7qSL011454@laptop13.inf.utfsm.cl> <459EC827.8010106@poolshark.org> Message-ID: <459FCED1.8010504@gmail.com> Denis Leroy wrote: > Horst H. von Brand wrote: >> Dave Jones wrote: >> >> [...] >> >>> Some package owners are just way, way overloaded. >>> Recieving more email telling me I'm not looking at bugs isn't going >>> to make >>> me look at more bugs any more than dealing with dozens of "Is anyone >>> looking >>> at my bug?" bugmails. >> >> The way out is recuiting more package owners... is there some place >> where >> one (sh|c)ould apply? Some "overseeing newbie owners" structure in >> place? Some means of a package owner having a hill full of gnomes >> doing the >> footwork? > > A better solution in some cases is to file the bug directly upstream. > Not all package maintainers have the technical skills to debug a > complex problem and cough up a complex patch, a lot of times all the > maintainer is doing is forwarding the bug upstream. > http://lists.freedesktop.org/archives/compiz/2006-December/001119.html From david at fubar.dk Sat Jan 6 16:32:30 2007 From: david at fubar.dk (David Zeuthen) Date: Sat, 6 Jan 2007 11:32:30 -0500 Subject: Fedora 7 In-Reply-To: <459F5895.7090907@redhat.com> References: <20070104195032.GE4693@nostromo.devel.redhat.com> <200701041613.50625.jkeating@redhat.com> <459D702A.8050705@fedoraproject.org> <200701041653.40217.jkeating@redhat.com> <1167952443.2847.8.camel@zelda.fubar.dk> <459F5895.7090907@redhat.com> Message-ID: <53B4B633-5F87-4559-BF07-AEBFB18E7EC3@fubar.dk> On Jan 6, 2007, at 3:06 AM, Warren Togami wrote: > More broadly... Fedora is not a democracy. > > Fedora is a meritocracy. Yes, and it's worth expanding on this. For example, a democracy is one where people with, say, too much time on their hands are able to build a community of peers (because most people like to be followed) and get elected into office based on e.g. the amount of mails the write and how well they crush their opposition. In a meritocracy we don't do this, we still let the most competent person (or persons) make decisions. Of course in some cases it's difficult for outsiders (who cannot judge, for a given subject matter, who is competent and who is not) to understand why some decisions are made and some are not. The day Fedora becomes a democracy is the day I'll contributing to Fedora. > One issue however that I see with this, is historic lack of inter- > communication between the RH Desktop team and the community. Not sure what you had in mind (examples?) but it's not exactly true (which is an understatement) though of course relations between RH employees and non-RH employees wanting to help out too can be improved. We always tell people to help out upstream; the only patches we carry are for defaults really. It's just like the kernel, we tell Fedora people to hack on kernel.org kernels. David From david at fubar.dk Sat Jan 6 16:34:40 2007 From: david at fubar.dk (David Zeuthen) Date: Sat, 6 Jan 2007 11:34:40 -0500 Subject: Fedora 7 In-Reply-To: <53B4B633-5F87-4559-BF07-AEBFB18E7EC3@fubar.dk> References: <20070104195032.GE4693@nostromo.devel.redhat.com> <200701041613.50625.jkeating@redhat.com> <459D702A.8050705@fedoraproject.org> <200701041653.40217.jkeating@redhat.com> <1167952443.2847.8.camel@zelda.fubar.dk> <459F5895.7090907@redhat.com> <53B4B633-5F87-4559-BF07-AEBFB18E7EC3@fubar.dk> Message-ID: <7BC4B981-E000-46EB-8CF4-541A3DBAC140@fubar.dk> On Jan 6, 2007, at 11:32 AM, David Zeuthen wrote: > The day Fedora becomes a democracy is the day I'll contributing to > Fedora. Gah, s/contributing/stop contributing/. Sorry about that! David From sundaram at fedoraproject.org Sat Jan 6 17:06:46 2007 From: sundaram at fedoraproject.org (Rahul Sundaram) Date: Sat, 06 Jan 2007 22:36:46 +0530 Subject: Fedora 7 In-Reply-To: <53B4B633-5F87-4559-BF07-AEBFB18E7EC3@fubar.dk> References: <20070104195032.GE4693@nostromo.devel.redhat.com> <200701041613.50625.jkeating@redhat.com> <459D702A.8050705@fedoraproject.org> <200701041653.40217.jkeating@redhat.com> <1167952443.2847.8.camel@zelda.fubar.dk> <459F5895.7090907@redhat.com> <53B4B633-5F87-4559-BF07-AEBFB18E7EC3@fubar.dk> Message-ID: <459FD726.9000604@fedoraproject.org> David Zeuthen wrote: > Not sure what you had in mind (examples?) but it's not exactly true > (which is an understatement) though of course relations between RH > employees and non-RH employees wanting to help out too can be improved. > We always tell people to help out upstream; the only patches we carry > are for defaults really. It's just like the kernel, we tell Fedora > people to hack on kernel.org kernels. Fedora-desktop list is not getting much traffic. All of the desktop team plans usually happen in a internal list and is completely opaque till it hits the development tree. One of the problems with that is it wrongly appears that there is no desktop development work going on within Fedora. Very few folks participate here or in any fedora list but that isnt a problem isolated to one specific team. Please consider having regular open irc development discussions, post meeting minutes updates, as many of the sub project like extras,ambassadors, infrastructure etc have been doing. Also the only plan for the GNOME desktop spin (not talking about KDE spin as Rex Dieter is the owner) listed is the detailed spec about fast user switching. Other than the new icon theme, do we have additional things to look at? Telepathy? PulseAudio? There has been several other things discussed in earlier releases and now such as evaluating init replacements, codec buddy, GDM early login, stateless linux. home user backup etc which the team might want to keep track of. Rahul From sundaram at fedoraproject.org Sat Jan 6 17:13:13 2007 From: sundaram at fedoraproject.org (Rahul Sundaram) Date: Sat, 06 Jan 2007 22:43:13 +0530 Subject: Fedora 7 In-Reply-To: <459FAE59.9040303@math.unl.edu> References: <20070104195032.GE4693@nostromo.devel.redhat.com> <200701060734.25783.jkeating@redhat.com> <459F9B7C.6040000@fedoraproject.org> <200701060813.30545.jkeating@redhat.com> <459FA49D.90106@fedoraproject.org> <459FAE59.9040303@math.unl.edu> Message-ID: <459FD8A9.7050505@fedoraproject.org> Rex Dieter wrote: > KDE doesn't *need* fixing, it isn't broke. Konq already (can) display as > Konqueror Web Browswer Yes. I am aware of that which makes Jesse Keating's argument about Fedora following upstream a weak one. > IMO, the fact that other apps (and gnome) in Fedora does this > differently by abusing > Name= > vs. > GenericName= > in .desktip files is bad/wrong/silly/bug. As long as I have any input > on it, > * KDE will not go down that road, ever. > * Packaging Guidelines should be updated highlight/avoid such abuse I dont particular care where the bug is. Inconsistency in approach between desktop environments is probably a bug which should get fixed anyhow. I think you have mentioned earlier on a few occasions that you were planning to get the guidelines altered to avoid this problem. That should help. Rahul From jkeating at redhat.com Sat Jan 6 17:23:46 2007 From: jkeating at redhat.com (Jesse Keating) Date: Sat, 6 Jan 2007 12:23:46 -0500 Subject: Fedora 7 In-Reply-To: <459FD8A9.7050505@fedoraproject.org> References: <20070104195032.GE4693@nostromo.devel.redhat.com> <459FAE59.9040303@math.unl.edu> <459FD8A9.7050505@fedoraproject.org> Message-ID: <200701061223.46633.jkeating@redhat.com> On Saturday 06 January 2007 12:13, Rahul Sundaram wrote: > I dont particular care where the bug is. Inconsistency in approach > between desktop environments is probably a bug which should get fixed > anyhow. I think you have mentioned earlier on a few occasions that you > were planning to get the guidelines altered to avoid this problem. That > should help. You're still thinking in Fedora we want to alter the upstream to make it look like Gnome, or vice versa. When in reality, they should look like upstream. We put a lot of effort into getting the upstream gnome to work the way we think it should, whereas KDE we don't have that kind of presence. We shouldn't be stomping on their software in our distribution, it should stick to upstream. That's WHY there is choice, as the KDE upstream doesn't necessarily agree with the GNOME upstream on how things should be done. -- Jesse Keating Release Engineer: Fedora -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 189 bytes Desc: not available URL: From david at fubar.dk Sat Jan 6 17:27:12 2007 From: david at fubar.dk (David Zeuthen) Date: Sat, 6 Jan 2007 12:27:12 -0500 Subject: Fedora 7 In-Reply-To: <459FD726.9000604@fedoraproject.org> References: <20070104195032.GE4693@nostromo.devel.redhat.com> <200701041613.50625.jkeating@redhat.com> <459D702A.8050705@fedoraproject.org> <200701041653.40217.jkeating@redhat.com> <1167952443.2847.8.camel@zelda.fubar.dk> <459F5895.7090907@redhat.com> <53B4B633-5F87-4559-BF07-AEBFB18E7EC3@fubar.dk> <459FD726.9000604@fedoraproject.org> Message-ID: <970B113B-CA12-4835-A2AD-E485E3EACC00@fubar.dk> On Jan 6, 2007, at 12:06 PM, Rahul Sundaram wrote: > David Zeuthen wrote: > >> Not sure what you had in mind (examples?) but it's not exactly >> true (which is an understatement) though of course relations >> between RH employees and non-RH employees wanting to help out too >> can be improved. We always tell people to help out upstream; the >> only patches we carry are for defaults really. It's just like the >> kernel, we tell Fedora people to hack on kernel.org kernels. > > Fedora-desktop list is not getting much traffic. True, it's mostly people who ask support questions / asking for misguided features. Sadly. > All of the desktop team plans usually happen in a internal list > and is completely opaque till it hits the development tree. Not entirely true; Rahul, you have access to that list and not a lot of _Fedora_ planning is going on so stop spreading misinformation. It's mainly used for RHEL stuff. It's true that we have some mails sometimes discussing early features for Fedora and, sure, in some instances we still need to move the last 5% to the external list. Wrt to IRC we also have many discussions externally on #fedora-desktop. You also need to realize that we have hallway conversations, that's unavoidable but sometimes high-bandwidth communications are needed. For example, I did post the f-u-s proposal; it didn't receive much feedback at all. My take is that the Fedora community largely isn't very interested in the desktop (I would loved to be proved wrong, don't take this in a non-constructive way); in that way we're succesful, for example an avid Fedora user is Richard Hughes and I deal a lot with him on upstream lists discussing features in hal and g-p-m. > One of the problems with that is it wrongly appears that there is > no desktop development work going on within Fedora. The desktop team is understaffed, we spend a lot of time in bugzilla and doing packaging rather than development. I think you don't realize this and this is bad as you should know such things being an RH employee. And this is bad. > PulseAudio? As Matthias said earlier, Monty is still finalizing that plan for external consumption; it's just at very early stages of design and at this point bringing it up on a Fedora list is just not productive; of course people should feel free to ping him on IRC (nickname xiphmont) on #fedora-desktop. No one have really, so I guess that there is little interest? Please come forward. > There has been several other things discussed in earlier releases > and now such as evaluating init replacements, codec buddy, GDM > early login, stateless linux. home user backup etc which the team > might want to keep track of. This is all something the desktop team cares about but we have not have time to do anything about it. You're making it sound like we're working on this in secret chambers. It is not so. Please stop the FUD about the RH desktop team being secretive, especially when you, as a RH employee, should know better as you have access to read our internal list. Also, we all hangout on #fedora-desktop on GimpNet so it's not like we're difficult to reach. Please join that channel and starting _talking_ to us instead of treating us like we want to do things secret. Thanks. David > > Rahul > > -- > fedora-devel-list mailing list > fedora-devel-list at redhat.com > https://www.redhat.com/mailman/listinfo/fedora-devel-list From sundaram at fedoraproject.org Sat Jan 6 17:47:08 2007 From: sundaram at fedoraproject.org (Rahul Sundaram) Date: Sat, 06 Jan 2007 23:17:08 +0530 Subject: Fedora 7 In-Reply-To: <970B113B-CA12-4835-A2AD-E485E3EACC00@fubar.dk> References: <20070104195032.GE4693@nostromo.devel.redhat.com> <200701041613.50625.jkeating@redhat.com> <459D702A.8050705@fedoraproject.org> <200701041653.40217.jkeating@redhat.com> <1167952443.2847.8.camel@zelda.fubar.dk> <459F5895.7090907@redhat.com> <53B4B633-5F87-4559-BF07-AEBFB18E7EC3@fubar.dk> <459FD726.9000604@fedoraproject.org> <970B113B-CA12-4835-A2AD-E485E3EACC00@fubar.dk> Message-ID: <459FE09C.5010103@fedoraproject.org> David Zeuthen wrote: >> Fedora-desktop list is not getting much traffic. > > True, it's mostly people who ask support questions / asking for > misguided features. Sadly. Calling it fedora-desktop-devel list might have avoided that problem to some extent. > Not entirely true; Rahul, you have access to that list and not a lot of > _Fedora_ planning is going on so stop spreading misinformation. It's > mainly used for RHEL stuff. It's true that we have some mails sometimes > discussing early features for Fedora and, sure, in some instances we > still need to move the last 5% to the external list. Wrt to IRC we also > have many discussions externally on #fedora-desktop. I dont really have access to all of the internal lists. I could update the external wiki pages with the information in some of the lists that I do have access to but that would risk putting out confidential stuff. Who knows about these fedora-desktop irc discussions apart from the desktop team itself? Would you consider moving it from Gimpnet to Freenode along with the rest of the channels? When any considerable discussions happen on irc, it needs to be posted on the Fedora wiki page (preferably with meeting mins) for folks to look back. If noone within the team has time for this, send me the logs and I will do it. You also need to > realize that we have hallway conversations, that's unavoidable but > sometimes high-bandwidth communications are needed. I think we still need to find a way to make the essential parts of those conversations more public. Fedora Project Board has regular meetings on phone but we do post meetings mins on the wiki and we have real time updates on #fedora-board irc channel these days. > For example, I did post the f-u-s proposal; it didn't receive much > feedback at all. My take is that the Fedora community largely isn't very > interested in the desktop (I would loved to be proved wrong, don't take > this in a non-constructive way); in that way we're succesful, for > example an avid Fedora user is Richard Hughes and I deal a lot with him > on upstream lists discussing features in hal and g-p-m. I think that's because not many people know about fedora-desktop list. Would you think merging it with fedora-devel list would be a good thing? > The desktop team is understaffed, we spend a lot of time in bugzilla and > doing packaging rather than development. I think you don't realize this > and this is bad as you should know such things being an RH employee. And > this is bad. Ahem. I think you are forgetting our earlier irc conversations. You cant reasonably expect me to keep track of all the development work happening more than I do so now. I bet I know more about it than maybe less than half a dozen people in India. Telling me that I am somehow spreading FUD might shut me up but is not going to help solve the problem that some of the development is not as transparent as it could be. Rahul From sundaram at fedoraproject.org Sat Jan 6 17:49:35 2007 From: sundaram at fedoraproject.org (Rahul Sundaram) Date: Sat, 06 Jan 2007 23:19:35 +0530 Subject: Fedora 7 In-Reply-To: <200701061223.46633.jkeating@redhat.com> References: <20070104195032.GE4693@nostromo.devel.redhat.com> <459FAE59.9040303@math.unl.edu> <459FD8A9.7050505@fedoraproject.org> <200701061223.46633.jkeating@redhat.com> Message-ID: <459FE12F.5080306@fedoraproject.org> Jesse Keating wrote: > > You're still thinking in Fedora we want to alter the upstream to make it look > like Gnome, or vice versa. When in reality, they should look like upstream. Since we are talking about the menu, let me note that KDE does provide multiple choices and one of them is a good fit to make it match what you want from it. Picking a good defaults (which doesnt require intrusive patches) that integrates well within Fedora is our job. We cant punt that upstream. > We put a lot of effort into getting the upstream gnome to work the way we > think it should, whereas KDE we don't have that kind of presence. We > shouldn't be stomping on their software in our distribution, it should stick > to upstream. That's WHY there is choice, as the KDE upstream doesn't > necessarily agree with the GNOME upstream on how things should be done. Agreed. It does happen on many occasions. Rahul From sundaram at fedoraproject.org Sat Jan 6 17:51:37 2007 From: sundaram at fedoraproject.org (Rahul Sundaram) Date: Sat, 06 Jan 2007 23:21:37 +0530 Subject: wiki reorganization Message-ID: <459FE1A9.4010204@fedoraproject.org> Hi Anticipating the upcoming merge of Fedora Core and Extras I have been removing the references to Fedora Core and replacing it with appropriate terms throughout the wiki but I would need suggestions on how to handle pages within the /Extras namespace. Would moving them to /Packaging make sense? Can we considering dropping the ACL's in the packaging page and just add a note on top that changes needs to be handled by the packaging committee? Rahul From david at fubar.dk Sat Jan 6 18:05:58 2007 From: david at fubar.dk (David Zeuthen) Date: Sat, 06 Jan 2007 13:05:58 -0500 Subject: Fedora 7 In-Reply-To: <459FE09C.5010103@fedoraproject.org> References: <20070104195032.GE4693@nostromo.devel.redhat.com> <200701041613.50625.jkeating@redhat.com> <459D702A.8050705@fedoraproject.org> <200701041653.40217.jkeating@redhat.com> <1167952443.2847.8.camel@zelda.fubar.dk> <459F5895.7090907@redhat.com> <53B4B633-5F87-4559-BF07-AEBFB18E7EC3@fubar.dk> <459FD726.9000604@fedoraproject.org> <970B113B-CA12-4835-A2AD-E485E3EACC00@fubar.dk> <459FE09C.5010103@fedoraproject.org> Message-ID: <1168106758.3522.13.camel@hook.fubar.dk> On Sat, 2007-01-06 at 23:17 +0530, Rahul Sundaram wrote: > David Zeuthen wrote: > >> Fedora-desktop list is not getting much traffic. > > > > True, it's mostly people who ask support questions / asking for > > misguided features. Sadly. > > Calling it fedora-desktop-devel list might have avoided that problem to > some extent. Maybe. I just don't think people who need support etc. bother (See: this list). > > Not entirely true; Rahul, you have access to that list and not a lot of > > _Fedora_ planning is going on so stop spreading misinformation. It's > > mainly used for RHEL stuff. It's true that we have some mails sometimes > > discussing early features for Fedora and, sure, in some instances we > > still need to move the last 5% to the external list. Wrt to IRC we also > > have many discussions externally on #fedora-desktop. > > I dont really have access to all of the internal lists. I could update > the external wiki pages with the information in some of the lists that I > do have access to but that would risk putting out confidential stuff. My point was that little or no interesting Fedora conversations are going on at that list. You are able to verify this my looking at the internal Red Hat mailman archives for said list. But you didn't, you assumed - and posted that to a Fedora community list - that we're talking about a lot of secretive stuff. Which is wrong. That's what so bad. (And of course you should never post information from one internal list to another, you're missing the point if that's what you think I'm asking you to do.) > Who knows about these fedora-desktop irc discussions apart from the > desktop team itself? Would you consider moving it from Gimpnet to > Freenode along with the rest of the channels? When any considerable > discussions happen on irc, it needs to be posted on the Fedora wiki page > (preferably with meeting mins) for folks to look back. If noone within > the team has time for this, send me the logs and I will do it. Not sure it's worthwhile moving it; I for one want it to stay on GimpNet such as to stay close to upstream IRC channels. Posting minutes is a lot of work; if people use IRC for such activitites (and we don't I think) it's better to discuss on a mailing list. My point was that if someone wants to make Fedora a better desktop, start by jumping on IRC and interactive with us! I'd be thrilled to see Fedora users come out and say "hey, I want to write this or that app". > > For example, I did post the f-u-s proposal; it didn't receive much > > feedback at all. My take is that the Fedora community largely isn't very > > interested in the desktop (I would loved to be proved wrong, don't take > > this in a non-constructive way); in that way we're succesful, for > > example an avid Fedora user is Richard Hughes and I deal a lot with him > > on upstream lists discussing features in hal and g-p-m. > > I think that's because not many people know about fedora-desktop list. > Would you think merging it with fedora-devel list would be a good thing? No way, it needs to be developers solely interested in the _development_ of the desktop, not this forum we have on this list which is more packaging-entry. It's way too noisy to get any desktop development done on this list I think. Again, people should get involved in upstream GNOME and upstream fd.o development. People just _don't_ seem to get this - just look at the NM sub-thread of this thread. This surely belongs on networkmanager-list at gnome.org and _people_ still don't get it. Well, maybe I'm ranting but the thread here did show good ideas - why not take it to the upstream list where we have more NM wizards that Dan Williams? > > The desktop team is understaffed, we spend a lot of time in bugzilla and > > doing packaging rather than development. I think you don't realize this > > and this is bad as you should know such things being an RH employee. And > > this is bad. > > Ahem. I think you are forgetting our earlier irc conversations. You cant > reasonably expect me to keep track of all the development work happening > more than I do so now. I bet I know more about it than maybe less than > half a dozen people in India. Telling me that I am somehow spreading FUD > might shut me up but is not going to help solve the problem that some of > the development is not as transparent as it could be. Well, just get the facts before posting because spreading misinformation (which I'm accusing you of) is bad. There's not a lot of desktop development going in _Fedora_ and it's not because the RH Desktop team is being secretive about it. It's because we either do Bugzilla / Packaging work (which I personally hate as I think my time is much better spent on writing code) or have the conversations / do development upstream like we should. On a constructive note, how can we raise awareness in the Fedora community that development needs to happen upstream if possible? How can we easily direct people to gnome.org mailing lists and IRC channels? (Of course, for some things Fedora _is_ the upstream, see e.g. the livecd development work. That's open and going well.) David From sundaram at fedoraproject.org Sat Jan 6 18:06:43 2007 From: sundaram at fedoraproject.org (Rahul Sundaram) Date: Sat, 06 Jan 2007 23:36:43 +0530 Subject: Fedora 7 In-Reply-To: <20070105172135.GA16497@redhat.com> References: <20070104195032.GE4693@nostromo.devel.redhat.com> <20070104225630.GC2578@free.fr> <20070105172135.GA16497@redhat.com> Message-ID: <459FE533.6040809@fedoraproject.org> Hi, Andrew Overholt wrote: > On a somewhat related note, we put the Eclipse plans for F7 here: > > http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/F7EclipsePlans > > I've added the category to make it appear on the above page. FYI, I have renamed this page to http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Releases/FeatureEclipsePlugins to match the template and other specifications. Rahul From bpepple at fedoraproject.org Sat Jan 6 17:42:59 2007 From: bpepple at fedoraproject.org (Brian Pepple) Date: Sat, 06 Jan 2007 12:42:59 -0500 Subject: Fedora 7 In-Reply-To: <459FD726.9000604@fedoraproject.org> References: <20070104195032.GE4693@nostromo.devel.redhat.com> <200701041613.50625.jkeating@redhat.com> <459D702A.8050705@fedoraproject.org> <200701041653.40217.jkeating@redhat.com> <1167952443.2847.8.camel@zelda.fubar.dk> <459F5895.7090907@redhat.com> <53B4B633-5F87-4559-BF07-AEBFB18E7EC3@fubar.dk> <459FD726.9000604@fedoraproject.org> Message-ID: <1168105379.32202.12.camel@Chuck> On Sat, 2007-01-06 at 22:36 +0530, Rahul Sundaram wrote: > Also the only plan for the GNOME desktop spin (not talking about KDE > spin as Rex Dieter is the owner) listed is the detailed spec about fast > user switching. Other than the new icon theme, do we have additional > things to look at? Telepathy? PulseAudio? There has been several other > things discussed in earlier releases and now such as evaluating init > replacements, codec buddy, GDM early login, stateless linux. home user > backup etc which the team might want to keep track of. Most of the Telepathy framework is already in Extras. I think the only missing piece right now is the IRC connection manager. Of course, there aren't many clients right now that make use of it in Extras (Cohoba being the only one I can think of). /B -- Brian Pepple gpg --keyserver pgp.mit.edu --recv-keys 810CC15E BD5E 6F9E 8688 E668 8F5B CBDE 326A E936 810C C15E -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: signature.asc Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 189 bytes Desc: This is a digitally signed message part URL: From sundaram at fedoraproject.org Sat Jan 6 18:19:11 2007 From: sundaram at fedoraproject.org (Rahul Sundaram) Date: Sat, 06 Jan 2007 23:49:11 +0530 Subject: Fedora 7 In-Reply-To: <1168106758.3522.13.camel@hook.fubar.dk> References: <20070104195032.GE4693@nostromo.devel.redhat.com> <200701041613.50625.jkeating@redhat.com> <459D702A.8050705@fedoraproject.org> <200701041653.40217.jkeating@redhat.com> <1167952443.2847.8.camel@zelda.fubar.dk> <459F5895.7090907@redhat.com> <53B4B633-5F87-4559-BF07-AEBFB18E7EC3@fubar.dk> <459FD726.9000604@fedoraproject.org> <970B113B-CA12-4835-A2AD-E485E3EACC00@fubar.dk> <459FE09C.5010103@fedoraproject.org> <1168106758.3522.13.camel@hook.fubar.dk> Message-ID: <459FE81F.9040404@fedoraproject.org> David Zeuthen wrote: > My point was that if someone wants to make Fedora a better desktop, > start by jumping on IRC and interactive with us! I'd be thrilled to see > Fedora users come out and say "hey, I want to write this or that app". People usually realise the existence of irc channels because of the frequent updates from them. For example, Fedora Extras Steering Committee has a public schedule and post summaries from all the meetings they have on a weekly basis. http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Extras > No way, it needs to be developers solely interested in the _development_ > of the desktop, not this forum we have on this list which is more > packaging-entry. It's way too noisy to get any desktop development done > on this list I think. Well, the moment you start posting anything substantial, more people are going to subscribe and start posting. We can't help. On the other hand even if some of it is noise (I deserve the blame in some cases), it does show interest. You might able to turn that interest into contributions - testing, triaging, development work etc. Fedora-art list is a good example here. > Again, people should get involved in upstream GNOME and upstream fd.o > development. People just _don't_ seem to get this - just look at the NM > sub-thread of this thread. This surely belongs on > networkmanager-list at gnome.org and _people_ still don't get it. Well, > maybe I'm ranting but the thread here did show good ideas - why not take > it to the upstream list where we have more NM wizards that Dan Williams? Users would see that as part of Fedora development rather than wanting to post to all the different upstream mailing lists. I can talk about NM here but I am not inclined to subscribe to another mailing list just to post a few points. > On a constructive note, how can we raise awareness in the Fedora > community that development needs to happen upstream if possible? Having a easily accessible documented policy like http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Extras/Policy would help here. How can > we easily direct people to gnome.org mailing lists and IRC channels? Might have a sub page in http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Communicate to point to the upstream projects that we actively work on and care about. > (Of course, for some things Fedora _is_ the upstream, see e.g. the > livecd development work. That's open and going well.) Yes. It does. Much appreciated. Thank you. Rahul From panemade at gmail.com Sat Jan 6 18:36:46 2007 From: panemade at gmail.com (=?UTF-8?Q?Parag_N(=E0=A4=AA=E0=A4=B0=E0=A4=BE=E0=A5=9A)?=) Date: Sun, 7 Jan 2007 00:06:46 +0530 Subject: wiki reorganization In-Reply-To: <459FE1A9.4010204@fedoraproject.org> References: <459FE1A9.4010204@fedoraproject.org> Message-ID: Hi, On 1/6/07, Rahul Sundaram wrote: > Hi > > Anticipating the upcoming merge of Fedora Core and Extras I have been > removing the references to Fedora Core and replacing it with appropriate > terms throughout the wiki but I would need suggestions on how to handle > pages within the /Extras namespace. Would moving them to /Packaging > make sense? Can we considering dropping the ACL's in the packaging page > and just add a note on top that changes needs to be handled by the > packaging committee? I think yes. As all pages under /Extras are anyway related to /Packaging, those can be moved to /Packaging. But How are we going to replace Extras word in all those pages? I have one suggestion, can we replace "Fedora Extras" words with "Fedora Community"/"Fedora Collection" ? Regards, Parag Nemade. From jkeating at redhat.com Sat Jan 6 18:39:58 2007 From: jkeating at redhat.com (Jesse Keating) Date: Sat, 6 Jan 2007 13:39:58 -0500 Subject: wiki reorganization In-Reply-To: References: <459FE1A9.4010204@fedoraproject.org> Message-ID: <200701061339.59033.jkeating@redhat.com> On Saturday 06 January 2007 13:36, Parag N(????) wrote: > "Fedora Community"/"Fedora Collection" ? Fedora Collective -- Jesse Keating Release Engineer: Fedora -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 189 bytes Desc: not available URL: From david at fubar.dk Sat Jan 6 18:42:13 2007 From: david at fubar.dk (David Zeuthen) Date: Sat, 06 Jan 2007 13:42:13 -0500 Subject: Fedora 7 In-Reply-To: <459FE81F.9040404@fedoraproject.org> References: <20070104195032.GE4693@nostromo.devel.redhat.com> <200701041613.50625.jkeating@redhat.com> <459D702A.8050705@fedoraproject.org> <200701041653.40217.jkeating@redhat.com> <1167952443.2847.8.camel@zelda.fubar.dk> <459F5895.7090907@redhat.com> <53B4B633-5F87-4559-BF07-AEBFB18E7EC3@fubar.dk> <459FD726.9000604@fedoraproject.org> <970B113B-CA12-4835-A2AD-E485E3EACC00@fubar.dk> <459FE09C.5010103@fedoraproject.org> <1168106758.3522.13.camel@hook.fubar.dk> <459FE81F.9040404@fedoraproject.org> Message-ID: <1168108933.3368.12.camel@hook.fubar.dk> On Sat, 2007-01-06 at 23:49 +0530, Rahul Sundaram wrote: > David Zeuthen wrote: > > > My point was that if someone wants to make Fedora a better desktop, > > start by jumping on IRC and interactive with us! I'd be thrilled to see > > Fedora users come out and say "hey, I want to write this or that app". > > People usually realise the existence of irc channels because of the > frequent updates from them. For example, Fedora Extras Steering > Committee has a public schedule and post summaries from all the meetings > they have on a weekly basis. > > http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Extras It's comparing apple's and orange's. Extras has very concrete needs to be that organized because if the repo is not consistent it breaks for everybody. Desktop _development_ as opposed to packaging is just different. > > Again, people should get involved in upstream GNOME and upstream fd.o > > development. People just _don't_ seem to get this - just look at the NM > > sub-thread of this thread. This surely belongs on > > networkmanager-list at gnome.org and _people_ still don't get it. Well, > > maybe I'm ranting but the thread here did show good ideas - why not take > > it to the upstream list where we have more NM wizards that Dan Williams? > > Users would see that as part of Fedora development rather than wanting > to post to all the different upstream mailing lists. I can talk about NM > here but I am not inclined to subscribe to another mailing list just to > post a few points. Well, sorry but software development is just damn hard and it requires that you actually engage with the community at hand rather than just post hand-wavy comments. If you cannot engage yourself enough to subscribe to an upstream list to provide feedback then so be it. Yes, this is harsh but I'm really tired of this attitude. Suggest to just post your points in Bugzilla at least so it's tracked; I've seen way too many people decrease the S/N ratio on e.g. this list with misguided feature requests and rants about upstream software components. It's definitely not useful, it's scaring away core Fedora contributors (TBH I've thought of unsubscribing from this list several times), it creates tons of flame wars and it's _not_ something we should encourage. Please, everyone, in the future please _do_ direct people to appropriate upstream lists / Bugzilla. If people are too lazy or busy to do that then so be it, it's a loss I can live with. Btw, I'd rather just fix the technical problem of not having to subscribe to a list to post comments. E.g. if you are subscribed to one @redhat.com list you should be able to post to all. Heck, perhaps that even gives you posting privileges to the appropriate fd.o and gnome lists too. And the lists shouldn't cut out Cc's either like we do today. Our lists are not set up to be friendly in that regard... but that can change. All this talk about Fedora community is good. But I think people are missing out that there's a world beyond Fedora (upstream) that you _need_ to interact with if you want to make a difference. It also scales a helluva better. (sorry if I'm being an ass about things but sometimes it's better to say what you think.) David From wtogami at redhat.com Sat Jan 6 18:50:32 2007 From: wtogami at redhat.com (Warren Togami) Date: Sat, 06 Jan 2007 13:50:32 -0500 Subject: Fedora 7 In-Reply-To: <970B113B-CA12-4835-A2AD-E485E3EACC00@fubar.dk> References: <20070104195032.GE4693@nostromo.devel.redhat.com> <200701041613.50625.jkeating@redhat.com> <459D702A.8050705@fedoraproject.org> <200701041653.40217.jkeating@redhat.com> <1167952443.2847.8.camel@zelda.fubar.dk> <459F5895.7090907@redhat.com> <53B4B633-5F87-4559-BF07-AEBFB18E7EC3@fubar.dk> <459FD726.9000604@fedoraproject.org> <970B113B-CA12-4835-A2AD-E485E3EACC00@fubar.dk> Message-ID: <459FEF78.8040406@redhat.com> David Zeuthen wrote: > > On Jan 6, 2007, at 12:06 PM, Rahul Sundaram wrote: > >> David Zeuthen wrote: >> >>> Not sure what you had in mind (examples?) but it's not exactly true >>> (which is an understatement) though of course relations between RH >>> employees and non-RH employees wanting to help out too can be >>> improved. We always tell people to help out upstream; the only >>> patches we carry are for defaults really. It's just like the kernel, >>> we tell Fedora people to hack on kernel.org kernels. >> >> Fedora-desktop list is not getting much traffic. > > True, it's mostly people who ask support questions / asking for > misguided features. Sadly. This is due to a lack of leadership. I've been asking Havoc and then Jrb for *YEARS* for someone in RH desktop to provide adequate and responsible community outreach and leadership on fedora-desktop-list. Without direction, the list remained utterly useless. >> One of the problems with that is it wrongly appears that there is no >> desktop development work going on within Fedora. > > The desktop team is understaffed, we spend a lot of time in bugzilla and > doing packaging rather than development. I think you don't realize this > and this is bad as you should know such things being an RH employee. And > this is bad. This is a weak excuse, for lack of trying. Recall when Red Hat had no perl maintainer for more than a year? Red Hat reached out to the community, created a Fedora perl team with a responsive perl caretaker providing effective outreach to that community. The resulting combination of thin Red Hat resource with effective collaboration with a few leading Fedora developers magnified many times fold the amount of work done. > > on this in secret chambers. It is not so. Please stop the FUD about the > RH desktop team being secretive, especially when you, as a RH employee, > should know better as you have access to read our internal list. Also, The attitude of the desktop team has always been one of an exclusive club, making little attempts to engage the Fedora community. While the work was done in the open (upstream at GNOME), decisions and discussions happened only internally. This has been a problem of attitude. Your recent attempt to subvert the community driven Fedora 7 art creation process with heavy-handed "This is my job" authority is just yet another example of this. Warren Togami wtogami at redhat.com From stickster at gmail.com Sat Jan 6 18:55:31 2007 From: stickster at gmail.com (Paul W. Frields) Date: Sat, 06 Jan 2007 13:55:31 -0500 Subject: wiki reorganization In-Reply-To: <200701061339.59033.jkeating@redhat.com> References: <459FE1A9.4010204@fedoraproject.org> <200701061339.59033.jkeating@redhat.com> Message-ID: <1168109731.5131.9.camel@localhost.localdomain> On Sat, 2007-01-06 at 13:39 -0500, Jesse Keating wrote: > On Saturday 06 January 2007 13:36, Parag N(????) wrote: > > "Fedora Community"/"Fedora Collection" ? > > Fedora Collective How about "Fedora Commune," "Fedora Compound," or "Fedora Cult"? :-D -- Paul W. Frields, RHCE http://paul.frields.org/ gpg fingerprint: 3DA6 A0AC 6D58 FEC4 0233 5906 ACDB C937 BD11 3717 Fedora Project Board: http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Board Fedora Docs Project: http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/DocsProject -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: signature.asc Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 189 bytes Desc: This is a digitally signed message part URL: From panemade at gmail.com Sat Jan 6 19:01:07 2007 From: panemade at gmail.com (=?UTF-8?Q?Parag_N(=E0=A4=AA=E0=A4=B0=E0=A4=BE=E0=A5=9A)?=) Date: Sun, 7 Jan 2007 00:31:07 +0530 Subject: wiki reorganization In-Reply-To: <1168109731.5131.9.camel@localhost.localdomain> References: <459FE1A9.4010204@fedoraproject.org> <200701061339.59033.jkeating@redhat.com> <1168109731.5131.9.camel@localhost.localdomain> Message-ID: Hi, On 1/7/07, Paul W. Frields wrote: > On Sat, 2007-01-06 at 13:39 -0500, Jesse Keating wrote: > > On Saturday 06 January 2007 13:36, Parag N(????) wrote: > > > "Fedora Community"/"Fedora Collection" ? > > > > Fedora Collective > > How about "Fedora Commune," "Fedora Compound," or "Fedora Cult"? :-D I think "Fedora Collective" is good to be considered. Regards, Parag > > -- > fedora-devel-list mailing list > fedora-devel-list at redhat.com > https://www.redhat.com/mailman/listinfo/fedora-devel-list > > > From david at fubar.dk Sat Jan 6 19:23:58 2007 From: david at fubar.dk (David Zeuthen) Date: Sat, 06 Jan 2007 14:23:58 -0500 Subject: Fedora 7 In-Reply-To: <459FEF78.8040406@redhat.com> References: <20070104195032.GE4693@nostromo.devel.redhat.com> <200701041613.50625.jkeating@redhat.com> <459D702A.8050705@fedoraproject.org> <200701041653.40217.jkeating@redhat.com> <1167952443.2847.8.camel@zelda.fubar.dk> <459F5895.7090907@redhat.com> <53B4B633-5F87-4559-BF07-AEBFB18E7EC3@fubar.dk> <459FD726.9000604@fedoraproject.org> <970B113B-CA12-4835-A2AD-E485E3EACC00@fubar.dk> <459FEF78.8040406@redhat.com> Message-ID: <1168111438.3368.40.camel@hook.fubar.dk> On Sat, 2007-01-06 at 13:50 -0500, Warren Togami wrote: > > on this in secret chambers. It is not so. Please stop the FUD about the > > RH desktop team being secretive, especially when you, as a RH employee, > > should know better as you have access to read our internal list. Also, > > The attitude of the desktop team has always been one of an exclusive > club, making little attempts to engage the Fedora community. While the > work was done in the open (upstream at GNOME), decisions and discussions > happened only internally. Oh my. It's come to posting conspiracy theories? Warren, this is out of line. You, and a few other people, are so extremely obsessed with creating / building a community around Fedora that you fail to take into account a) what the world looks like (we do / want to do the work upstream); and b) what is actually out there in the community (not a whole lot of useful input today desktop-wise). It's fine to get more community involvement. It does DO NOT happen overnight and sacrificing quality is not an option. It happens gradually. Please wake up. > This has been a problem of attitude. Your recent attempt to subvert the > community driven Fedora 7 art creation process with heavy-handed "This > is my job" authority is just yet another example of this. It is my job to maintain the artwork packages and, yes, I'm deeply troubled by the attitude on that list. That list is a place where the guy with the biggest stereo wins (e.g. democracy, not what we do). That's not a way to get the best result so of course I'm concerned. It's my god damn job to be concerned about that. If you want to discuss further take your fucking conspiracy theories off list and mail me directly. David From nicolas.mailhot at laposte.net Sat Jan 6 19:25:22 2007 From: nicolas.mailhot at laposte.net (Nicolas Mailhot) Date: Sat, 06 Jan 2007 20:25:22 +0100 Subject: Fedora 7 In-Reply-To: <1168108933.3368.12.camel@hook.fubar.dk> References: <20070104195032.GE4693@nostromo.devel.redhat.com> <200701041613.50625.jkeating@redhat.com> <459D702A.8050705@fedoraproject.org> <200701041653.40217.jkeating@redhat.com> <1167952443.2847.8.camel@zelda.fubar.dk> <459F5895.7090907@redhat.com> <53B4B633-5F87-4559-BF07-AEBFB18E7EC3@fubar.dk> <459FD726.9000604@fedoraproject.org> <970B113B-CA12-4835-A2AD-E485E3EACC00@fubar.dk> <459FE09C.5010103@fedoraproject.org> <1168106758.3522.13.camel@hook.fubar.dk> <459FE81F.9040404@fedoraproject.org> <1168108933.3368.12.camel@hook.fubar.dk> Message-ID: <1168111524.13712.28.camel@rousalka.dyndns.org> Le samedi 06 janvier 2007 ? 13:42 -0500, David Zeuthen a ?crit : > It's comparing apple's and orange's. Extras has very concrete needs to > be that organized because if the repo is not consistent it breaks for > everybody. Because the desktop does not need to be consistent? > All this talk about Fedora community is good. But I think people are > missing out that there's a world beyond Fedora (upstream) that you > _need_ to interact with if you want to make a difference. It also scales > a helluva better. I think you are missing out that 1. people can not interact directly with all the upstreams Fedora builds on (do you? not just the parts you're working on but all the other bits you use). Even a dozen upstream MLs is sufficient to saturate any inbox. 2. rahul is one of the few people that tries to be active on the various Fedora channels and put everything together, if you find him clueless why I can't begin to imagine what your opinion of a basic community contributor is 3. you complain the desktop team is misunderstood but as far as I know its only frontend is http://fedora.redhat.com/About/Projects/desktop/ (almost no info, retired wiki, no reference to the famous irc channel everyone should know of) 4. you feel you spend too much time on packaging work yet you totally ignore all the non-redhat people packaging desktop bits in current Extras. They're not going to help you if you persist being in stealth mode. I've been seriously asked in the past if the Fedora Desktop Team actually existed. That sums up the current situation pretty well. -- Nicolas Mailhot -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: signature.asc Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 197 bytes Desc: Ceci est une partie de message num?riquement sign?e URL: From hughsient at gmail.com Sat Jan 6 19:32:09 2007 From: hughsient at gmail.com (Richard Hughes) Date: Sat, 06 Jan 2007 19:32:09 +0000 Subject: Fedora 7 In-Reply-To: <459FEF78.8040406@redhat.com> References: <20070104195032.GE4693@nostromo.devel.redhat.com> <200701041613.50625.jkeating@redhat.com> <459D702A.8050705@fedoraproject.org> <200701041653.40217.jkeating@redhat.com> <1167952443.2847.8.camel@zelda.fubar.dk> <459F5895.7090907@redhat.com> <53B4B633-5F87-4559-BF07-AEBFB18E7EC3@fubar.dk> <459FD726.9000604@fedoraproject.org> <970B113B-CA12-4835-A2AD-E485E3EACC00@fubar.dk> <459FEF78.8040406@redhat.com> Message-ID: <1168111929.5181.2.camel@hughsie-laptop> On Sat, 2007-01-06 at 13:50 -0500, Warren Togami wrote: > The attitude of the desktop team has always been one of an exclusive > club, making little attempts to engage the Fedora community. While > the work was done in the open (upstream at GNOME), decisions and > discussions happened only internally. I don't think this is the case at all, and that's from an "upstream GNOME maintainer, who uses Fedora" point of view. I also don't think this is the sort of stuff we should be discussing on list, as it's not productive in any way. Richard. From david at fubar.dk Sat Jan 6 19:38:00 2007 From: david at fubar.dk (David Zeuthen) Date: Sat, 06 Jan 2007 14:38:00 -0500 Subject: Fedora 7 In-Reply-To: <1168111524.13712.28.camel@rousalka.dyndns.org> References: <20070104195032.GE4693@nostromo.devel.redhat.com> <200701041613.50625.jkeating@redhat.com> <459D702A.8050705@fedoraproject.org> <200701041653.40217.jkeating@redhat.com> <1167952443.2847.8.camel@zelda.fubar.dk> <459F5895.7090907@redhat.com> <53B4B633-5F87-4559-BF07-AEBFB18E7EC3@fubar.dk> <459FD726.9000604@fedoraproject.org> <970B113B-CA12-4835-A2AD-E485E3EACC00@fubar.dk> <459FE09C.5010103@fedoraproject.org> <1168106758.3522.13.camel@hook.fubar.dk> <459FE81F.9040404@fedoraproject.org> <1168108933.3368.12.camel@hook.fubar.dk> <1168111524.13712.28.camel@rousalka.dyndns.org> Message-ID: <1168112280.3368.51.camel@hook.fubar.dk> On Sat, 2007-01-06 at 20:25 +0100, Nicolas Mailhot wrote: > 1. people can not interact directly with all the upstreams Fedora > builds on (do you? not just the parts you're working on but all the > other bit you use). It's not that bad really; desktop-devel-list at gnome.org , xdg-list at freedesktop.org and so forth. Just reading people's blogs are often enough. > Even a dozen upstream MLs is sufficient to saturate any inbox. Well, software development is hard and specialized, sorry. It's just _not_ _useful_ that people use fedora-devel-list instead of getting involved in upstream projects. See my other mail for details. > 2. rahul is one of the few people that tries to be active on the various > Fedora channels and put everything together, if you find him clueless > why I can't begin to imagine what your opinion of a basic community > contributor is I didn't say that; I said he was spreading misinformation that the desktop team does things in secret. Rahul does a lot of useful stuff but when I see things like that I need to respond. > 3. you complain the desktop team is misunderstood but as far as I know > its only frontend is http://fedora.redhat.com/About/Projects/desktop/ > (almost no info, retired wiki, no reference to the famous irc channel > everyone should know of) That should probably be fixed, sure. There used to be a nice page on fedora.redhat.com with this including pointers to upstream lists. Why the Community Relations (Warren? Rahul?) people involved in Fedora haven't fixed that I don't know; perhaps they expected the software developers in the RH desktop team to do that? Perhaps there's some misunderstanding about responsibilities that needs to be sorted out. I'll ask my manager to sort this out. I'm not saying we're perfect, just that most members of the RH desktop team is focused on upstream work because.. that's where the decisions are made. That's just reality. And one Fedora mantra is to do things upstream. (It's interesting that the kernel people don't take the same flame as us for this attitude) > 4. you feel you spend too much time on packaging work yet you totally > ignore all the non-redhat people packaging desktop bits in current > Extras. They're not going to help you if you persist being in stealth > mode. True. This discussion is way to heated so I can see I wasn't being constructive there; apologies to those that felt hurt. Sorry. David From wtogami at redhat.com Sat Jan 6 19:51:30 2007 From: wtogami at redhat.com (Warren Togami) Date: Sat, 06 Jan 2007 14:51:30 -0500 Subject: Fedora 7 In-Reply-To: <1168111438.3368.40.camel@hook.fubar.dk> References: <20070104195032.GE4693@nostromo.devel.redhat.com> <200701041613.50625.jkeating@redhat.com> <459D702A.8050705@fedoraproject.org> <200701041653.40217.jkeating@redhat.com> <1167952443.2847.8.camel@zelda.fubar.dk> <459F5895.7090907@redhat.com> <53B4B633-5F87-4559-BF07-AEBFB18E7EC3@fubar.dk> <459FD726.9000604@fedoraproject.org> <970B113B-CA12-4835-A2AD-E485E3EACC00@fubar.dk> <459FEF78.8040406@redhat.com> <1168111438.3368.40.camel@hook.fubar.dk> Message-ID: <459FFDC2.5030303@redhat.com> David Zeuthen wrote: > >> This has been a problem of attitude. Your recent attempt to subvert the >> community driven Fedora 7 art creation process with heavy-handed "This >> is my job" authority is just yet another example of this. > > It is my job to maintain the artwork packages and, yes, I'm deeply > troubled by the attitude on that list. That list is a place where the > guy with the biggest stereo wins (e.g. democracy, not what we do). fedora-art-list is not a democracy, but rather a meritocracy. The vast majority of the work there has been done by volunteers, with M?ir?n Duffy doing most of the community outreach and communication. Not everyone there has equal decision making power. Those who have done work and gained respect from others gain greater authority. From merit, some clear community leaders have emerged like Nicu Buculei. Is this not how a Fedora Project should be run? https://www.redhat.com/archives/fedora-art-list/2006-December/msg00178.html The Fedora Project Board decided, the community process is to be followed and the result of that will be used in Fedora 7 pending the Board's approval. This is NOT YOUR DECISION. This is the Board's decision. > That's not a way to get the best result so of course I'm concerned. It's > my god damn job to be concerned about that. > > If you want to discuss further take your fucking conspiracy theories off > list and mail me directly. > I will discuss this in public, because the Fedora Project should be transparent and open. Warren Togami wtogami at redhat.com From david at fubar.dk Sat Jan 6 19:51:54 2007 From: david at fubar.dk (David Zeuthen) Date: Sat, 06 Jan 2007 14:51:54 -0500 Subject: Fedora 7 In-Reply-To: <1168111524.13712.28.camel@rousalka.dyndns.org> References: <20070104195032.GE4693@nostromo.devel.redhat.com> <200701041613.50625.jkeating@redhat.com> <459D702A.8050705@fedoraproject.org> <200701041653.40217.jkeating@redhat.com> <1167952443.2847.8.camel@zelda.fubar.dk> <459F5895.7090907@redhat.com> <53B4B633-5F87-4559-BF07-AEBFB18E7EC3@fubar.dk> <459FD726.9000604@fedoraproject.org> <970B113B-CA12-4835-A2AD-E485E3EACC00@fubar.dk> <459FE09C.5010103@fedoraproject.org> <1168106758.3522.13.camel@hook.fubar.dk> <459FE81F.9040404@fedoraproject.org> <1168108933.3368.12.camel@hook.fubar.dk> <1168111524.13712.28.camel@rousalka.dyndns.org> Message-ID: <1168113114.3368.56.camel@hook.fubar.dk> On Sat, 2007-01-06 at 20:25 +0100, Nicolas Mailhot wrote: > Le samedi 06 janvier 2007 ? 13:42 -0500, David Zeuthen a ?crit : > > > It's comparing apple's and orange's. Extras has very concrete needs to > > be that organized because if the repo is not consistent it breaks for > > everybody. > > Because the desktop does not need to be consistent? Btw, it mostly is, and, for the record, there are huge collaboration zones called gnome.org, freedesktop.org and kde.org that does this for us. And several RH employees are actively participating in those fora. And I think we're mostly doing a good job. Likewise for the kernel, there is a dude called Linus Torvalds that does the same kind of stuff for our operating system kernel. Upstream. Now with more vitamin C. David From david at fubar.dk Sat Jan 6 20:02:24 2007 From: david at fubar.dk (David Zeuthen) Date: Sat, 06 Jan 2007 15:02:24 -0500 Subject: Fedora 7 In-Reply-To: <459FFDC2.5030303@redhat.com> References: <20070104195032.GE4693@nostromo.devel.redhat.com> <200701041613.50625.jkeating@redhat.com> <459D702A.8050705@fedoraproject.org> <200701041653.40217.jkeating@redhat.com> <1167952443.2847.8.camel@zelda.fubar.dk> <459F5895.7090907@redhat.com> <53B4B633-5F87-4559-BF07-AEBFB18E7EC3@fubar.dk> <459FD726.9000604@fedoraproject.org> <970B113B-CA12-4835-A2AD-E485E3EACC00@fubar.dk> <459FEF78.8040406@redhat.com> <1168111438.3368.40.camel@hook.fubar.dk> <459FFDC2.5030303@redhat.com> Message-ID: <1168113744.3368.67.camel@hook.fubar.dk> On Sat, 2007-01-06 at 14:51 -0500, Warren Togami wrote: > fedora-art-list is not a democracy, but rather a meritocracy. It is not. It's run by very loud people who are not afraid to resort to personal attacks and forming fractions and alliances. > The vast > majority of the work there has been done by volunteers, with M?ir?n > Duffy doing most of the community outreach and communication. Not > everyone there has equal decision making power. Those who have done > work and gained respect from others gain greater authority. From merit, > some clear community leaders have emerged like Nicu Buculei. "Communication" is not the only deciding factor. I think the work on that list is not up to Fedora release quality. As the maintainer of the artwork packages plus dealing with graphics people both in this and past jobs I can make that statement. I doubt that you can. (This is harsh, but sorry, Warren pushed me to say such things.) > This is NOT YOUR DECISION. This is the Board's decision. I know, but I am free to disagree with the board. I think they are trading quality for building "community". They are in this case, I think, hurting the quality of Fedora by turning the art selection process into a democracy. It's a shame and it makes believe less in the board. > I will discuss this in public, because the Fedora Project should be > transparent and open. You are just naive (and you should know better) that this is a good forum to discuss such matters in. Most of the issues in this case are personal so it's even bad form to bring it up here. You should be really ashamed of yourself Warren. I'm positive no constructive discussion can follow so I'm replying to any of your replies. Thanks. David From wtogami at redhat.com Sat Jan 6 20:22:23 2007 From: wtogami at redhat.com (Warren Togami) Date: Sat, 06 Jan 2007 15:22:23 -0500 Subject: Fedora 7 In-Reply-To: <1168113744.3368.67.camel@hook.fubar.dk> References: <20070104195032.GE4693@nostromo.devel.redhat.com> <200701041613.50625.jkeating@redhat.com> <459D702A.8050705@fedoraproject.org> <200701041653.40217.jkeating@redhat.com> <1167952443.2847.8.camel@zelda.fubar.dk> <459F5895.7090907@redhat.com> <53B4B633-5F87-4559-BF07-AEBFB18E7EC3@fubar.dk> <459FD726.9000604@fedoraproject.org> <970B113B-CA12-4835-A2AD-E485E3EACC00@fubar.dk> <459FEF78.8040406@redhat.com> <1168111438.3368.40.camel@hook.fubar.dk> <459FFDC2.5030303@redhat.com> <1168113744.3368.67.camel@hook.fubar.dk> Message-ID: <45A004FF.2090107@redhat.com> David Zeuthen wrote: > On Sat, 2007-01-06 at 14:51 -0500, Warren Togami wrote: >> fedora-art-list is not a democracy, but rather a meritocracy. > > It is not. It's run by very loud people who are not afraid to resort to > personal attacks and forming fractions and alliances. One of us is trying to build a community with a meritocracy governance model. The other is using heavy-handed tactics in protectionism, appealing to the fallacy of authority 'this is my job'. Only one of these paths is what is best for the community. Please consider the possibility, that what you are doing is selfish and wrong. > >> The vast >> majority of the work there has been done by volunteers, with M?ir?n >> Duffy doing most of the community outreach and communication. Not >> everyone there has equal decision making power. Those who have done >> work and gained respect from others gain greater authority. From merit, >> some clear community leaders have emerged like Nicu Buculei. > > "Communication" is not the only deciding factor. I think the work on > that list is not up to Fedora release quality. As the maintainer of the > artwork packages plus dealing with graphics people both in this and past > jobs I can make that statement. I doubt that you can. > > (This is harsh, but sorry, Warren pushed me to say such things.) > >> This is NOT YOUR DECISION. This is the Board's decision. > > I know, but I am free to disagree with the board. I think they are > trading quality for building "community". They are in this case, I > think, hurting the quality of Fedora by turning the art selection > process into a democracy. I have made it pretty clear that this is NOT a democracy. You seem to think that anything where the decision is out of your hands is a democracy. You are free to have that as a personal opinion. > It's a shame and it makes believe less in the board. You don't need to believe in the Board. The project will move forward with or without your belief. Warren Togami wtogami at redhat.com From nicolas.mailhot at laposte.net Sat Jan 6 20:35:04 2007 From: nicolas.mailhot at laposte.net (Nicolas Mailhot) Date: Sat, 06 Jan 2007 21:35:04 +0100 Subject: Fedora 7 In-Reply-To: <1168112280.3368.51.camel@hook.fubar.dk> References: <20070104195032.GE4693@nostromo.devel.redhat.com> <200701041613.50625.jkeating@redhat.com> <459D702A.8050705@fedoraproject.org> <200701041653.40217.jkeating@redhat.com> <1167952443.2847.8.camel@zelda.fubar.dk> <459F5895.7090907@redhat.com> <53B4B633-5F87-4559-BF07-AEBFB18E7EC3@fubar.dk> <459FD726.9000604@fedoraproject.org> <970B113B-CA12-4835-A2AD-E485E3EACC00@fubar.dk> <459FE09C.5010103@fedoraproject.org> <1168106758.3522.13.camel@hook.fubar.dk> <459FE81F.9040404@fedoraproject.org> <1168108933.3368.12.camel@hook.fubar.dk> <1168111524.13712.28.camel@rousalka.dyndns.org> <1168112280.3368.51.camel@hook.fubar.dk> Message-ID: <1168115704.13712.51.camel@rousalka.dyndns.org> Le samedi 06 janvier 2007 ? 14:38 -0500, David Zeuthen a ?crit : > On Sat, 2007-01-06 at 20:25 +0100, Nicolas Mailhot wrote: > > 1. people can not interact directly with all the upstreams Fedora > > builds on (do you? not just the parts you're working on but all the > > other bit you use). > > It's not that bad really; desktop-devel-list at gnome.org , > xdg-list at freedesktop.org and so forth. Just reading people's blogs are > often enough. Create a Fedora Desktop Team planet then. Right now there is no identified Fedora Desktop Team web presence (like there was for the rh labs in a long-forgotten era) > I'm not saying we're perfect, just that most members of the RH desktop > team is focused on upstream work because.. that's where the decisions > are made. That's just reality. And one Fedora mantra is to do things > upstream. (It's interesting that the kernel people don't take the same > flame as us for this attitude) That's because davej has done an awesome job communicating on both ends (upstream *and* fedora-side). He's not an upstream developer that happens to be paid by Red Hat, he always pays attention to both agendas. Likewise ajax seems to have no problem being the Fedora guy upstream and the xorg guy on Fedora channels (following in mharris steps) > True. This discussion is way to heated so I can see I wasn't being > constructive there; apologies to those that felt hurt. Sorry. You're taking the heat for all the Fedora Desktop Team members we don't ever see Fedora-side, don't take it personal. Regards, -- Nicolas Mailhot -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: signature.asc Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 197 bytes Desc: Ceci est une partie de message num?riquement sign?e URL: From wtogami at redhat.com Sat Jan 6 20:41:20 2007 From: wtogami at redhat.com (Warren Togami) Date: Sat, 06 Jan 2007 15:41:20 -0500 Subject: Fedora 7 In-Reply-To: <459F5895.7090907@redhat.com> References: <20070104195032.GE4693@nostromo.devel.redhat.com> <200701041613.50625.jkeating@redhat.com> <459D702A.8050705@fedoraproject.org> <200701041653.40217.jkeating@redhat.com> <1167952443.2847.8.camel@zelda.fubar.dk> <459F5895.7090907@redhat.com> Message-ID: <45A00970.5020508@redhat.com> Warren Togami wrote: > > Fedora Desktop and Fedora KDE spins. Is that really so bad? > How big would a "Desktop" spin that contains both GNOME and KDE be? Too big? Warren Togami wtogami at redhat.com From knightmerc at yahoo.com Sat Jan 6 20:45:23 2007 From: knightmerc at yahoo.com (Lyvim Xaphir) Date: Sat, 06 Jan 2007 15:45:23 -0500 Subject: Fedora 7 In-Reply-To: <459FFDC2.5030303@redhat.com> References: <20070104195032.GE4693@nostromo.devel.redhat.com> <200701041613.50625.jkeating@redhat.com> <459D702A.8050705@fedoraproject.org> <200701041653.40217.jkeating@redhat.com> <1167952443.2847.8.camel@zelda.fubar.dk> <459F5895.7090907@redhat.com> <53B4B633-5F87-4559-BF07-AEBFB18E7EC3@fubar.dk> <459FD726.9000604@fedoraproject.org> <970B113B-CA12-4835-A2AD-E485E3EACC00@fubar.dk> <459FEF78.8040406@redhat.com> <1168111438.3368.40.camel@hook.fubar.dk> <459FFDC2.5030303@redhat.com> Message-ID: <1168116323.2531.67.camel@localhost.localdomain> On Sat, 2007-01-06 at 14:51 -0500, Warren Togami wrote: > I will discuss this in public, because the Fedora Project should be > transparent and open. Hmmmm. Well alrighty. > David Zeuthen wrote: > > > >> This has been a problem of attitude. Your recent attempt to subvert the > >> community driven Fedora 7 art creation process with heavy-handed "This > >> is my job" authority is just yet another example of this. > > > > It is my job to maintain the artwork packages and, yes, I'm deeply > > troubled by the attitude on that list. That list is a place where the > > guy with the biggest stereo wins (e.g. democracy, not what we do). > > fedora-art-list is not a democracy, but rather a meritocracy. The vast > majority of the work there has been done by volunteers, with M?ir?n > Duffy doing most of the community outreach and communication. Not > everyone there has equal decision making power. Those who have done > work and gained respect from others gain greater authority. From merit, > some clear community leaders have emerged like Nicu Buculei. The big question is, who decides who has the "merit". I see potential ideological problems here even if someone works their ass off, but then isn't necessarily considered to be, for example, 'a good socialist'. Or a good "Stallmanist". Or is that Stalinist? Sorry, I get those two confused. In such cases, a harder worker could potentially be punished for not "towing the party line". The general excuse could be, "well, we have guys with greater merit. This is a meritocracy." Maybe it is a meritocracy. But it should be technical merit, not anything else. One guy with a better idea should triumph over 10 guys with stupid ideas. > > Is this not how a Fedora Project should be run? > > https://www.redhat.com/archives/fedora-art-list/2006-December/msg00178.html > The Fedora Project Board decided, the community process is to be > followed and the result of that will be used in Fedora 7 pending the > Board's approval. > > This is NOT YOUR DECISION. This is the Board's decision. Which will work as long as the Board a) acknowledges the existence of users b) takes it's cues from the users first and c) prioritizes technical merit over ideology. It is also useful to examine the success of your competition. As other open source gods have already suggested here. > > > That's not a way to get the best result so of course I'm concerned. It's > > my god damn job to be concerned about that. > > > > If you want to discuss further take your fucking conspiracy theories off > > list and mail me directly. > > > > Warren Togami > wtogami at redhat.com > LX From dcantrell at redhat.com Sat Jan 6 20:53:58 2007 From: dcantrell at redhat.com (David Cantrell) Date: Sat, 06 Jan 2007 15:53:58 -0500 Subject: Fedora 7 (Everything installs) In-Reply-To: <1168037038.3358.16.camel@mentorng.gurulabs.com> References: <20070104195032.GE4693@nostromo.devel.redhat.com> <7873-SnapperMsg827D11E1C1C47D24@[70.6.76.140]> <1168036027.26602.4.camel@localhost.localdomain> <1168037038.3358.16.camel@mentorng.gurulabs.com> Message-ID: <45A00C66.7070907@redhat.com> Dax Kelson wrote: > On Fri, 2007-01-05 at 17:27 -0500, Paul W. Frields wrote: >> I don't think merging the repos makes any of >> the existing reasons for doing away with this selection any less sound. > > Of course it does. The major argument bandied about for the removal of > 'Everything' was the creation of extras. It was more about anaconda supporting installations from any number of yum repositories. As stated many many many times in the past, Everything cannot be defined when we allow people to install from an arbitrary number of repositories. And if we did install everything we found (and assuming the backend didn't crash when resolving dependencies), people would complain that the install took too long. > It is useful for a variety of situations. Many, many, people have asked > for it back. Now that the merge is happening, let's *restore* the > feature that existed for years. Of all of the complaints that have come in just in the past year regarding the removal of the Everything install, only *one* was reasonable, IMHO. And solving that was a matter of educating the user on how to set up kickstart to provision systems (and we still support Everything installs via kickstart using '*' under %packages). In their case, systems were provisioned and then carried in to a secure DoD research environment without any Internet connectivity. They wanted to set up the systems with everything installed up front and not have to install later since they _couldn't_ do that. My solution was to set up kickstart to do a normal install, mirror all the packages to the /var/cache/yum tree and then let them use yum later on if they need to install things. It worked well. -- David Cantrell Red Hat / Westford, MA From knightmerc at yahoo.com Sat Jan 6 21:00:25 2007 From: knightmerc at yahoo.com (Lyvim Xaphir) Date: Sat, 06 Jan 2007 16:00:25 -0500 Subject: Fedora 7 In-Reply-To: <1168113744.3368.67.camel@hook.fubar.dk> References: <20070104195032.GE4693@nostromo.devel.redhat.com> <200701041613.50625.jkeating@redhat.com> <459D702A.8050705@fedoraproject.org> <200701041653.40217.jkeating@redhat.com> <1167952443.2847.8.camel@zelda.fubar.dk> <459F5895.7090907@redhat.com> <53B4B633-5F87-4559-BF07-AEBFB18E7EC3@fubar.dk> <459FD726.9000604@fedoraproject.org> <970B113B-CA12-4835-A2AD-E485E3EACC00@fubar.dk> <459FEF78.8040406@redhat.com> <1168111438.3368.40.camel@hook.fubar.dk> <459FFDC2.5030303@redhat.com> <1168113744.3368.67.camel@hook.fubar.dk> Message-ID: <1168117225.2531.79.camel@localhost.localdomain> On Sat, 2007-01-06 at 15:02 -0500, David Zeuthen wrote: > On Sat, 2007-01-06 at 14:51 -0500, Warren Togami wrote: > > fedora-art-list is not a democracy, but rather a meritocracy. > > It is not. It's run by very loud people who are not afraid to resort to > personal attacks and forming fractions and alliances. This is exactly what I've noticed as well. Not what I expected to see, but that's ok, been there done that, they can bring it. > > > The vast > > majority of the work there has been done by volunteers, with M?ir?n > > Duffy doing most of the community outreach and communication. Not > > everyone there has equal decision making power. Those who have done > > work and gained respect from others gain greater authority. From merit, > > some clear community leaders have emerged like Nicu Buculei. > > "Communication" is not the only deciding factor. I think the work on > that list is not up to Fedora release quality. As the maintainer of the > artwork packages plus dealing with graphics people both in this and past > jobs I can make that statement. I doubt that you can. > > (This is harsh, but sorry, Warren pushed me to say such things.) I don't think it's harsh, I just think it's the truth. > > > This is NOT YOUR DECISION. This is the Board's decision. > > I know, but I am free to disagree with the board. I think they are > trading quality for building "community". They are in this case, I > think, hurting the quality of Fedora by turning the art selection > process into a democracy. It's a shame and it makes believe less in the > board. I see alot of things that don't ring true; for instance, in this discussion there has been absolutely no mention of technical merit with regard to your contributions. To the contrary, there has only been discussion of authority and overriding decisions. To me this smacks of elitism; "We agree with you as long as you say what we like. Otherwise we don't want to hear what you say." > > > I will discuss this in public, because the Fedora Project should be > > transparent and open. > > You are just naive (and you should know better) that this is a good > forum to discuss such matters in. Most of the issues in this case are > personal so it's even bad form to bring it up here. You should be really > ashamed of yourself Warren. I'm positive no constructive discussion can > follow so I'm replying to any of your replies. Thanks. > > David But you know what? This is exactly the forum to discuss in, because from here we get a good idea of what Warren is all about. Personal or no, one guy locked in a room with 50 assailants is not going to promote progress. This is the arena of ideas. Let the users help sort this out. Trust them to help you because, it is, after all, for their benefit that all these things take place. You are not the first one to have problems of this nature with the, eh, "meritocracy". LX From david at fubar.dk Sat Jan 6 20:58:48 2007 From: david at fubar.dk (David Zeuthen) Date: Sat, 06 Jan 2007 15:58:48 -0500 Subject: Fedora 7 In-Reply-To: <1168115704.13712.51.camel@rousalka.dyndns.org> References: <20070104195032.GE4693@nostromo.devel.redhat.com> <200701041613.50625.jkeating@redhat.com> <459D702A.8050705@fedoraproject.org> <200701041653.40217.jkeating@redhat.com> <1167952443.2847.8.camel@zelda.fubar.dk> <459F5895.7090907@redhat.com> <53B4B633-5F87-4559-BF07-AEBFB18E7EC3@fubar.dk> <459FD726.9000604@fedoraproject.org> <970B113B-CA12-4835-A2AD-E485E3EACC00@fubar.dk> <459FE09C.5010103@fedoraproject.org> <1168106758.3522.13.camel@hook.fubar.dk> <459FE81F.9040404@fedoraproject.org> <1168108933.3368.12.camel@hook.fubar.dk> <1168111524.13712.28.camel@rousalka.dyndns.org> <1168112280.3368.51.camel@hook.fubar.dk> <1168115704.13712.51.camel@rousalka.dyndns.org> Message-ID: <1168117128.3368.83.camel@hook.fubar.dk> On Sat, 2007-01-06 at 21:35 +0100, Nicolas Mailhot wrote: > Le samedi 06 janvier 2007 ? 14:38 -0500, David Zeuthen a ?crit : > > On Sat, 2007-01-06 at 20:25 +0100, Nicolas Mailhot wrote: > > > 1. people can not interact directly with all the upstreams Fedora > > > builds on (do you? not just the parts you're working on but all the > > > other bit you use). > > > > It's not that bad really; desktop-devel-list at gnome.org , > > xdg-list at freedesktop.org and so forth. Just reading people's blogs are > > often enough. > > Create a Fedora Desktop Team planet then. Right now there is no > identified Fedora Desktop Team web presence (like there was for the rh > labs in a long-forgotten era) That's not a bad idea at all though most of the people are on Fedora People and Planet Gnome. Not all is good at blogging regularly, I'll certainly admit to not being as communicative as I could be. Perhaps just someone from the team (like jrb since he's managing the team) should post a weekly status report about who in the team have been up what to every week - we have this internally (as do most companies) but it includes boring RHEL crap as well. Anyway, this person would then be responsible for collecting status reports from non-RH people too - that might help foster community involvement a lot. Accountability helps or somethings. I'll poke some people about that (See: I've added jrb to the Cc.) (I also like how you changed to "Fedora Desktop Team" rather than the "RH Desktop Team" I was using previously.) > You're taking the heat for all the Fedora Desktop Team members we don't > ever see Fedora-side, don't take it personal. Oh, I don't (I have burn-proof pants) but I do appreciate that comment, thanks. Despite all the flames... getting all the kinks worked out on how the Brave Merged World is going to look like might actually be beneficial for the project as a whole. At the end of the day we all want the project to be successful. And we're getting there. David From jspaleta at gmail.com Sat Jan 6 21:04:06 2007 From: jspaleta at gmail.com (Jeff Spaleta) Date: Sat, 6 Jan 2007 12:04:06 -0900 Subject: Fedora 7 In-Reply-To: <200701060813.30545.jkeating@redhat.com> References: <20070104195032.GE4693@nostromo.devel.redhat.com> <200701060734.25783.jkeating@redhat.com> <459F9B7C.6040000@fedoraproject.org> <200701060813.30545.jkeating@redhat.com> Message-ID: <604aa7910701061304o62679fd2na9b5847a35f2675a@mail.gmail.com> On 1/6/07, Jesse Keating wrote: > Because it is a targetted spin for a particular peice of software, much like > an eclipse spin or XFCE spin or asterisk spin. Or to but it another way. Is the door open for a pure gnome spin using community power in the future? Where we have the default browser be gnome's default browser.. and use the gnome specific office applications instead of open office? I know this isn't practical, but I think it should be pointed out that what the best-of-breed 'Desktop' looks like right now is not strictly gnome, it does deviate in significant ways at the application layer to take advantage of best-of-breed applications. Because of this it does make sense to avoid calling it Fedora Gnome, because it is not a faithful integration of the gnome application set as invisioned by upstream. I don't think the pool of gnome purists is particularly large so I doubt we will see a push for a spin of a vanilla gnome, ever.. but there is room for it in the spin-space. And besides, 4 years from now the Fedora Desktop will be using the Sugar interface with the dolphin-accessibility extensions so this how debate is really short-sighted. -jef"As a card carrying member of Gnome Purists Anonymous, the best-of-breed approach to RedHat's view of how to build a desktop sickens me. Having firefox as the default browser is a perversion of the sanctity of the gnome ui."spaleta From wtogami at redhat.com Sat Jan 6 21:05:01 2007 From: wtogami at redhat.com (Warren Togami) Date: Sat, 06 Jan 2007 16:05:01 -0500 Subject: Fedora 7 In-Reply-To: <1168116323.2531.67.camel@localhost.localdomain> References: <20070104195032.GE4693@nostromo.devel.redhat.com> <200701041613.50625.jkeating@redhat.com> <459D702A.8050705@fedoraproject.org> <200701041653.40217.jkeating@redhat.com> <1167952443.2847.8.camel@zelda.fubar.dk> <459F5895.7090907@redhat.com> <53B4B633-5F87-4559-BF07-AEBFB18E7EC3@fubar.dk> <459FD726.9000604@fedoraproject.org> <970B113B-CA12-4835-A2AD-E485E3EACC00@fubar.dk> <459FEF78.8040406@redhat.com> <1168111438.3368.40.camel@hook.fubar.dk> <459FFDC2.5030303@redhat.com> <1168116323.2531.67.camel@localhost.localdomain> Message-ID: <45A00EFD.1090601@redhat.com> Lyvim Xaphir wrote: > > The big question is, who decides who has the "merit". I see potential "Merit" is earned through hard work. "Hard work" should speak for itself. Sometimes disagreements happen, then the tough decision must go up the leadership chain to a deciding body. In Fedora we have multiple levels like: FESCO (to be renamed) - technical/packaging governance issues FAB - issues recommendations, does not decide FPB - ultimate decider if lower levels cannot agree > ideological problems here even if someone works their ass off, but then > isn't necessarily considered to be, for example, 'a good socialist'. Or > a good "Stallmanist". Or is that Stalinist? Sorry, I get those two > confused. > Calling names is intellectually lazy. Please describe with specificity how the desire to create a community where people earn respect through their hard work is Stalin-like? I don't see the connection between Stalin and Stallman either. >> https://www.redhat.com/archives/fedora-art-list/2006-December/msg00178.html >> The Fedora Project Board decided, the community process is to be >> followed and the result of that will be used in Fedora 7 pending the >> Board's approval. >> >> This is NOT YOUR DECISION. This is the Board's decision. > > Which will work as long as the Board a) acknowledges the existence of > users b) takes it's cues from the users first and c) prioritizes > technical merit over ideology. What ideology are you referring to? If you have criticisms of the Board not doing what is best for the users, then please speak in specifics instead of intellectually lazy generalizations. Warren Togami wtogami at redhat.com From jspaleta at gmail.com Sat Jan 6 21:12:42 2007 From: jspaleta at gmail.com (Jeff Spaleta) Date: Sat, 6 Jan 2007 12:12:42 -0900 Subject: Fedora 7 (Everything installs) In-Reply-To: <45A00C66.7070907@redhat.com> References: <20070104195032.GE4693@nostromo.devel.redhat.com> <7873-SnapperMsg827D11E1C1C47D24@70.6.76.140> <1168036027.26602.4.camel@localhost.localdomain> <1168037038.3358.16.camel@mentorng.gurulabs.com> <45A00C66.7070907@redhat.com> Message-ID: <604aa7910701061312n3aaa6454q6cd7325aeeea2c51@mail.gmail.com> On 1/6/07, David Cantrell wrote: > Of all of the complaints that have come in just in the past year > regarding the removal of the Everything install, only *one* was > reasonable, IMHO. And solving that was a matter of educating the user > on how to set up kickstart to provision systems (and we still support > Everything installs via kickstart using '*' under %packages). +1 How do we do this for the Fedora community in general? How do we effectively educate people concerning the use of kickstart, so they will be willing to reach for kickstart as a solution for legitimate niche install scenarios? Do we need to start compiling well commented examples of useful kickstart files into the wiki and point to them from the release notes? What will it take to get people stop looking for the UI to be encumbered with unnecessary flexibility and to have them start reaching for kickstart to be the flexible solution that it was meant to be? -jef From jkeating at redhat.com Sat Jan 6 21:25:29 2007 From: jkeating at redhat.com (Jesse Keating) Date: Sat, 6 Jan 2007 16:25:29 -0500 Subject: Fedora 7 In-Reply-To: <45A00EFD.1090601@redhat.com> References: <20070104195032.GE4693@nostromo.devel.redhat.com> <1168116323.2531.67.camel@localhost.localdomain> <45A00EFD.1090601@redhat.com> Message-ID: <200701061625.32731.jkeating@redhat.com> On Saturday 06 January 2007 16:05, Warren Togami wrote: > "Merit" is earned through hard work. > "Hard work" should speak for itself. Lets not forget that it is hard _CORRECT_ work. You do all the hard work you want, but if the product of that work is not as good as something else, guess what, we're going to go with the something else. This isn't about quantity of work done (or emails sent, or volume of speakers), it's about quality of produced products. -- Jesse Keating Release Engineer: Fedora -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 189 bytes Desc: not available URL: From david at fubar.dk Sat Jan 6 21:26:32 2007 From: david at fubar.dk (David Zeuthen) Date: Sat, 06 Jan 2007 16:26:32 -0500 Subject: Fedora 7 In-Reply-To: <604aa7910701061304o62679fd2na9b5847a35f2675a@mail.gmail.com> References: <20070104195032.GE4693@nostromo.devel.redhat.com> <200701060734.25783.jkeating@redhat.com> <459F9B7C.6040000@fedoraproject.org> <200701060813.30545.jkeating@redhat.com> <604aa7910701061304o62679fd2na9b5847a35f2675a@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <1168118792.3368.100.camel@hook.fubar.dk> On Sat, 2007-01-06 at 12:04 -0900, Jeff Spaleta wrote: > On 1/6/07, Jesse Keating wrote: > > Because it is a targetted spin for a particular peice of software, much like > > an eclipse spin or XFCE spin or asterisk spin. > > Or to but it another way. Is the door open for a pure gnome spin using > community power in the future? Where we have the default browser be > gnome's default browser.. and use the gnome specific office > applications instead of open office? I think the Fedora project should be open to this kind of thing; I think we want to make it extremely easy to do "spins" including having some kind of hosting space provided by the Fedora Project for "blessed" spins. Anyone should be able to easily start up a "spin" (even large corporations for internal deployments but I'm thinking more of Fedora Special Interest Group (SIG) like XFCE, E17, Music, Games, Eclipse etc.) and once it has proved itself perhaps it can be officially hosted by the Fedora Project. What all this means is probably too early to discuss (I'm thinking out loud!) but after F7 is out it would be good to see some guidelines on how all this is going to work out. We want to ensure, for one thing, that it doesn't grow out of bounds, e.g. we have 100 little used spins; I think rather we want < 10 high quality and maintained spins. The governance structure of who controls a spin needs to be thought about too including guidelines when for resolving conflicts when a package is needed by more than one spin and there is divergence on how the package should be packaged up. With guidelines and thinking of all this... we can start building tools to easily enable people to do spins. It will take a lot of time to write all this down though. It's not too early to start I think. Btw, as a bad analogy, I see Fedora Package Collection ~= Debian Fedora Desktop ~= Ubuntu Fedora KDE ~= Kubuntu e.g. "spins" are derived Fedora distributions in their very own sense. I think that's somewhat worth pointing out as it helps put things in perspective. But let's start with Desktop, Server and KDE as the three first spins! God knows, we have enough on our plate for F7. (Btw, I'd welcome a purist GNOME spin - note that our Fedora 6 live CD uses GNOME office!) David From drago01 at gmail.com Sat Jan 6 21:21:22 2007 From: drago01 at gmail.com (dragoran) Date: Sat, 06 Jan 2007 22:21:22 +0100 Subject: Fedora 7 In-Reply-To: <45A00970.5020508@redhat.com> References: <20070104195032.GE4693@nostromo.devel.redhat.com> <200701041613.50625.jkeating@redhat.com> <459D702A.8050705@fedoraproject.org> <200701041653.40217.jkeating@redhat.com> <1167952443.2847.8.camel@zelda.fubar.dk> <459F5895.7090907@redhat.com> <45A00970.5020508@redhat.com> Message-ID: <45A012D2.6040200@gmail.com> Warren Togami wrote: > Warren Togami wrote: >> >> Fedora Desktop and Fedora KDE spins. Is that really so bad? >> > > How big would a "Desktop" spin that contains both GNOME and KDE be? depends on the packages > > Too big? > I doubt it, It should be smaller as the former "Core" spin, because server packages are not in it. > Warren Togami > wtogami at redhat.com > From drago01 at gmail.com Sat Jan 6 21:26:10 2007 From: drago01 at gmail.com (dragoran) Date: Sat, 06 Jan 2007 22:26:10 +0100 Subject: Grub 2 and FC7? In-Reply-To: <20070106072548.GA15367@wolff.to> References: <20070106072548.GA15367@wolff.to> Message-ID: <45A013F2.5020601@gmail.com> Bruno Wolff III wrote: > Are there plans to give an option to install Grub 2 in FC7? The Grub 2 wiki > now claims that software raid and lvm are supported, which are some nice > new features. > > is it useable now? and if not what are the chances to get it working (no regressions) until the feature freeze? From bpepple at fedoraproject.org Sat Jan 6 21:36:12 2007 From: bpepple at fedoraproject.org (Brian Pepple) Date: Sat, 06 Jan 2007 16:36:12 -0500 Subject: Fedora 7 In-Reply-To: <1168118792.3368.100.camel@hook.fubar.dk> References: <20070104195032.GE4693@nostromo.devel.redhat.com> <200701060734.25783.jkeating@redhat.com> <459F9B7C.6040000@fedoraproject.org> <200701060813.30545.jkeating@redhat.com> <604aa7910701061304o62679fd2na9b5847a35f2675a@mail.gmail.com> <1168118792.3368.100.camel@hook.fubar.dk> Message-ID: <1168119372.6794.0.camel@Chuck> On Sat, 2007-01-06 at 16:26 -0500, David Zeuthen wrote: > (Btw, I'd welcome a purist GNOME spin - note that our Fedora 6 live CD > uses GNOME office!) +1 /B -- Brian Pepple gpg --keyserver pgp.mit.edu --recv-keys 810CC15E BD5E 6F9E 8688 E668 8F5B CBDE 326A E936 810C C15E -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: signature.asc Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 189 bytes Desc: This is a digitally signed message part URL: From vnpenguin at vnoss.org Sat Jan 6 21:45:47 2007 From: vnpenguin at vnoss.org (Vnpenguin) Date: Sat, 6 Jan 2007 22:45:47 +0100 Subject: Fedora 7 In-Reply-To: <1168118792.3368.100.camel@hook.fubar.dk> References: <20070104195032.GE4693@nostromo.devel.redhat.com> <200701060734.25783.jkeating@redhat.com> <459F9B7C.6040000@fedoraproject.org> <200701060813.30545.jkeating@redhat.com> <604aa7910701061304o62679fd2na9b5847a35f2675a@mail.gmail.com> <1168118792.3368.100.camel@hook.fubar.dk> Message-ID: On 1/6/07, David Zeuthen wrote: > > (Btw, I'd welcome a purist GNOME spin - note that our Fedora 6 live CD > uses GNOME office!) > With some changes of your scripts, I could make a LiveCD with Xfce desktop too :) FYI, Cheers, -- http://vnoss.org From jspaleta at gmail.com Sat Jan 6 21:50:49 2007 From: jspaleta at gmail.com (Jeff Spaleta) Date: Sat, 6 Jan 2007 12:50:49 -0900 Subject: Fedora 7 In-Reply-To: <1168118792.3368.100.camel@hook.fubar.dk> References: <20070104195032.GE4693@nostromo.devel.redhat.com> <200701060734.25783.jkeating@redhat.com> <459F9B7C.6040000@fedoraproject.org> <200701060813.30545.jkeating@redhat.com> <604aa7910701061304o62679fd2na9b5847a35f2675a@mail.gmail.com> <1168118792.3368.100.camel@hook.fubar.dk> Message-ID: <604aa7910701061350g1759c9ffgdbf5468be599fac8@mail.gmail.com> On 1/6/07, David Zeuthen wrote: > I think the Fedora project should be open to this kind of thing; I think > we want to make it extremely easy to do "spins" including having some > kind of hosting space provided by the Fedora Project for "blessed" > spins. I am just trying to recast the discussion, to show that the issue over spin branding isn't really a strict Desktop spin == Gnome spin versus KDE spin. The reality is Desktop spin == FrankeinFood spin. > Anyone should be able to easily start up a "spin" (even large > corporations for internal deployments but I'm thinking more of Fedora > Special Interest Group (SIG) like XFCE, E17, Music, Games, Eclipse etc.) > and once it has proved itself perhaps it can be officially hosted by the > Fedora Project. We may get 'easily' from a toolset point of view. But I personally have significant concerns that community SIGS will be able to meet my reasonable expectations with regard to quality integration work. I will say that the work the FedoraUnity people have been doing with their livecds and re-spins assuages some of my deeper fears and should be looked to as a model on how people in the fedora community can self-organize to get things done. > The governance structure of who controls a spin needs to be thought > about too including guidelines when for resolving conflicts when a > package is needed by more than one spin and there is divergence on how > the package should be packaged up. Conflicts will always happen, people will have to be willing to work within a defined conflict resolution process and abide by the decisions. I expect the biggest pain associated with the merger, across a number of fronts, will be integrating the in-house culture surrounding how plans for Core are made, with the external culture that has been developing for the last 2 or 3 years. I hope there is a chance for internal and external leads to meet up at FudCon, over some pizza and beer and some high-spirited wii-sports competitions, and get to know each other beyond what they see in mailinglist conflicts. -jef"patiently waiting for FUDCon Fairbanks"spaleta From thomas.canniot at laposte.net Sat Jan 6 23:03:07 2007 From: thomas.canniot at laposte.net (Thomas Canniot) Date: Sun, 07 Jan 2007 00:03:07 +0100 Subject: Fedora 7 In-Reply-To: <459F64F7.3050303@leemhuis.info> References: <20070104195032.GE4693@nostromo.devel.redhat.com> <200701041613.50625.jkeating@redhat.com> <459D702A.8050705@fedoraproject.org> <200701041653.40217.jkeating@redhat.com> <1167952443.2847.8.camel@zelda.fubar.dk> <459F5895.7090907@redhat.com> <459F5F18.50808@fedoraproject.org> <459F64F7.3050303@leemhuis.info> Message-ID: <1168124587.3236.5.camel@localhost.localdomain> Le samedi 06 janvier 2007 ? 09:59 +0100, Thorsten Leemhuis a ?crit : > Rahul Sundaram schrieb: > > Warren Togami wrote: > >> Fedora Desktop and Fedora KDE spins. Is that really so bad? > > Yes it is. This kind of biased branding would lead to the perception > > GNOME is always going to be favored regardless of whether there is a > > active community around other desktop environments within Fedora. > > > > Granted, the number of GNOME developers within Fedora from Red Hat is > > going to ensure that we have a very well integrated GNOME desktop on > > Fedora but having a separate KDE (or XFCE, GNUStep, Enlightenment et > > all) releases gives more space for other active contributors to do the > > hard work they can and try to compete fiercely to provide the best > > possible experience within Fedora. Dont strike down that opportunity. > > Fully agreed! So do I ! > Cu > thl (gnome user) ThomasCanniot (gnome user) From dennis at ausil.us Sat Jan 6 23:21:22 2007 From: dennis at ausil.us (Dennis Gilmore) Date: Sat, 6 Jan 2007 17:21:22 -0600 Subject: Fedora 7 In-Reply-To: <1168098436.19008.2.camel@localhost.localdomain> References: <20070104195032.GE4693@nostromo.devel.redhat.com> <200701060854.00427.dennis@ausil.us> <1168098436.19008.2.camel@localhost.localdomain> Message-ID: <200701061721.27539.dennis@ausil.us> On Saturday 06 January 2007 9:47 am, Andrew Overholt wrote: > On Sat, 2007-06-01 at 08:53 -0600, Dennis Gilmore wrote: > > When talking to the developers of FDS yesterday We may hit a snag. the > > java bits. still need suns java. Red Hat's Java team have made them > > build with gcj but they don't run 100% yet with it. > > I'm pretty sure Tom Fitzsimmons told me that things do indeed work. > Tom? Andrew, I really hope that they do. -- Dennis Gilmore, RHCE Proud Australian -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 189 bytes Desc: not available URL: From galibert at pobox.com Sun Jan 7 00:50:24 2007 From: galibert at pobox.com (Olivier Galibert) Date: Sun, 7 Jan 2007 01:50:24 +0100 Subject: Fedora 7 (Everything installs) In-Reply-To: <604aa7910701061312n3aaa6454q6cd7325aeeea2c51@mail.gmail.com> References: <20070104195032.GE4693@nostromo.devel.redhat.com> <7873-SnapperMsg827D11E1C1C47D24@70.6.76.140> <1168036027.26602.4.camel@localhost.localdomain> <1168037038.3358.16.camel@mentorng.gurulabs.com> <45A00C66.7070907@redhat.com> <604aa7910701061312n3aaa6454q6cd7325aeeea2c51@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <20070107005024.GC20448@dspnet.fr.eu.org> On Sat, Jan 06, 2007 at 12:12:42PM -0900, Jeff Spaleta wrote: > On 1/6/07, David Cantrell wrote: > >Of all of the complaints that have come in just in the past year > >regarding the removal of the Everything install, only *one* was > >reasonable, IMHO. And solving that was a matter of educating the user > >on how to set up kickstart to provision systems (and we still support > >Everything installs via kickstart using '*' under %packages). > > +1 > How do we do this for the Fedora community in general? How do we > effectively educate people concerning the use of kickstart, so they > will be willing to reach for kickstart as a solution for legitimate > niche install scenarios? Do we need to start compiling well commented > examples of useful kickstart files into the wiki and point to them > from the release notes? What will it take to get people stop looking > for the UI to be encumbered with unnecessary flexibility and to have > them start reaching for kickstart to be the flexible solution that it > was meant to be? Ok, I burn a standard fedora iso, I boot on it, please do tell me where is the command line or whatever I can use to input kickstart commands. Why do you have any package choices in anaconda anyway? You can do it all after the install, isn't it? If what you people want is a minimal install that only gives a reliable network and/or cdrom afterwards and have the real install being done after having booted on it, just do it. But stop pussyfooting around. Make a damn decision. OG. From chris at tylers.info Sun Jan 7 01:01:28 2007 From: chris at tylers.info (Chris Tyler) Date: Sat, 06 Jan 2007 20:01:28 -0500 Subject: Domain search path (was Re: Fedora 7) In-Reply-To: <20070106025059.CF5E5730A8@hormel.redhat.com> References: <20070106025059.CF5E5730A8@hormel.redhat.com> Message-ID: <1168131688.18475.109.camel@concord2.proximity.on.ca> On Fri, 2007-01-05 Ola Thoresen wrote: > Chris Tyler wrote: > > > > echo 'export LOCALDOMAIN="dom1.com dom2.org"' >>/etc/profile > > Wow! Sounds perfect! > Except it does not seem to work with most apps? > > $ export LOCALDOMAIN="nytt.no" > $ echo $LOCALDOMAIN > nytt.no > $ host poseidon > Host poseidon not found: 3(NXDOMAIN) > $ ping poseidon > ping: unknown host poseidon I use $LOCALDOMAIN most often with tools such as ssh, telnet, netcat, Firefox, and traceroute, and it works fine. Odd that ping, host, and their friends don't acknowledge it, maybe the _res.options values used by those programs is the problem? (Or is there more than one resolver library?) -- Chris Tyler http://chris.tylers.info From mattdm at mattdm.org Sun Jan 7 01:22:04 2007 From: mattdm at mattdm.org (Matthew Miller) Date: Sat, 6 Jan 2007 20:22:04 -0500 Subject: Fedora 7 (Everything installs) In-Reply-To: <604aa7910701061312n3aaa6454q6cd7325aeeea2c51@mail.gmail.com> References: <20070104195032.GE4693@nostromo.devel.redhat.com> <7873-SnapperMsg827D11E1C1C47D24@70.6.76.140> <1168036027.26602.4.camel@localhost.localdomain> <1168037038.3358.16.camel@mentorng.gurulabs.com> <45A00C66.7070907@redhat.com> <604aa7910701061312n3aaa6454q6cd7325aeeea2c51@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <20070107012204.GA19260@jadzia.bu.edu> On Sat, Jan 06, 2007 at 12:12:42PM -0900, Jeff Spaleta wrote: > niche install scenarios? Do we need to start compiling well commented > examples of useful kickstart files into the wiki and point to them > from the release notes? What will it take to get people stop looking Put them on the install CDs. -- Matthew Miller mattdm at mattdm.org Boston University Linux ------> From mclasen at redhat.com Sun Jan 7 02:53:25 2007 From: mclasen at redhat.com (Matthias Clasen) Date: Sat, 06 Jan 2007 21:53:25 -0500 Subject: Fedora 7 In-Reply-To: <459FAE59.9040303@math.unl.edu> References: <20070104195032.GE4693@nostromo.devel.redhat.com> <200701060734.25783.jkeating@redhat.com> <459F9B7C.6040000@fedoraproject.org> <200701060813.30545.jkeating@redhat.com> <459FA49D.90106@fedoraproject.org> <459FAE59.9040303@math.unl.edu> Message-ID: <1168138405.24372.2.camel@localhost.localdomain> On Sat, 2007-01-06 at 08:12 -0600, Rex Dieter wrote: > Rahul Sundaram wrote: > > Jesse Keating wrote: > > >> You say this as if it's a good thing, I see this as another fact that > >> KDE isn't really designed for the mass userbase. How in gods green > >> earth is somebody supposed to look at a KDE menu and know that > >> Konqueror is for browsing the web? That "Kate" is for writing text > >> files? > > > > So why havent we fixed up the menu to be meaningful? > > KDE doesn't *need* fixing, it isn't broke. Konq already (can) display as > Konqueror Web Browswer > IMO, the fact that other apps (and gnome) in Fedora does this > differently by abusing > Name= > vs. > GenericName= > in .desktip files is bad/wrong/silly/bug. As long as I have any input > on it, > * KDE will not go down that road, ever. > * Packaging Guidelines should be updated highlight/avoid such abuse > Rex, not every design decision made by the desktop team can be reverted via the packaging guidelines. Committees work best if they don't try to grab too much power. From davej at redhat.com Sun Jan 7 04:06:05 2007 From: davej at redhat.com (Dave Jones) Date: Sat, 6 Jan 2007 23:06:05 -0500 Subject: experimental 2.6.19 kernel preview. In-Reply-To: <20070104172302.GB3129@redhat.com> References: <1167812088.3567.9.camel@sonlaptop> <20070103173644.GA3862@kerouac> <20070103190743.6bd0fef8@lain.camperquake.de> <20070103191657.GB3862@kerouac> <20070103225824.GA11354@redhat.com> <20070104090244.115940@gmx.net> <20070104172302.GB3129@redhat.com> Message-ID: <20070107040605.GC1905@redhat.com> On Thu, Jan 04, 2007 at 12:23:02PM -0500, Dave Jones wrote: > note that this build doesn't have the fix for the mmap corruption problem > which got quite a bit of attention last week. I'll get a fixed build > up there soon, but in the meantime, tread carefully with this one. I've been working on a 2.6.19 update for FC6 over the last few weeks, and it's starting to feel 'almost ready'. Before I push this out to updates-testing though, I'd rather have a few people 'kick the tyres' to make sure there's nothing really silly wrong with these. There are still 1-2 bits that need some more tweaking/fixing that I already know about, but I'm blocking on other people to get those fixed. You can find them at http://people.redhat.com/davej/kernels/Fedora/FC6/ Notable points: - The big difference here vs the 2.6.19 that briefly showed up in rawhide is that this kernel sticks with the older IDE code (so you won't get a nasty surprise when your /dev/hda becomes sda etc). I just don't feel comfortable pushing that as an update without worrying about regressions. - Another notable change in this update: The addition of -debug kernels. All the slowdowns and nasty dmesg-filling debug output you've come to expect in a rawhide kernel, but in FC6! Well, hopefully not too many of the nasty messages, but this is the same as the other FC6 kernels, but with lockdep, slab debug etc turned on which should prove to be useful for tracking down some of the nastier bugs we've had in recent times. The slow-down from these kernels isn't really *that* bad on most workloads, I tend to run with these turned on all the time, and don't notice the difference (but Santa sometimes brings me shinier computers than others so this may not be universally true). - 2.6.19-1.2888 and above are based on 2.6.19.2rc1 so have the fix for the nasty data corruption bug that turned up in some workloads. So, it's there, have it at, beat it up etc. It *should* be pretty solid, All being well, the current plan is to get a slightly improved version of this into updates-testing on Wednesday. I'll do an FC5 version on the flight to LCA and will get that built and pushed to fc5-updates-testing as soon as I get network connectivity in the land of wallabies, cork hats and `roos. Dave -- http://www.codemonkey.org.uk From rdieter at math.unl.edu Sun Jan 7 04:34:41 2007 From: rdieter at math.unl.edu (Rex Dieter) Date: Sat, 06 Jan 2007 22:34:41 -0600 Subject: Fedora 7: .desktop files, Name vs. GenericName In-Reply-To: <1168138405.24372.2.camel@localhost.localdomain> References: <20070104195032.GE4693@nostromo.devel.redhat.com> <200701060734.25783.jkeating@redhat.com> <459F9B7C.6040000@fedoraproject.org> <200701060813.30545.jkeating@redhat.com> <459FA49D.90106@fedoraproject.org> <459FAE59.9040303@math.unl.edu> <1168138405.24372.2.camel@localhost.localdomain> Message-ID: <45A07861.7020800@math.unl.edu> Matthias Clasen wrote: > On Sat, 2007-01-06 at 08:12 -0600, Rex Dieter wrote: >> Rahul Sundaram wrote: >>> Jesse Keating wrote: >>>> You say this as if it's a good thing, I see this as another fact that >>>> KDE isn't really designed for the mass userbase. How in gods green >>>> earth is somebody supposed to look at a KDE menu and know that >>>> Konqueror is for browsing the web? That "Kate" is for writing text >>>> files? >>> So why havent we fixed up the menu to be meaningful? >> KDE doesn't *need* fixing, it isn't broke. Konq already (can) display as >> Konqueror Web Browswer >> IMO, the fact that other apps (and gnome) in Fedora does this >> differently by abusing >> Name= >> vs. >> GenericName= >> in .desktip files is bad/wrong/silly/bug. As long as I have any input >> on it, >> * KDE will not go down that road, ever. >> * Packaging Guidelines should be updated highlight/avoid such abuse > Rex, not every design decision made by the desktop team can be reverted > via the packaging guidelines. Committees work best if they don't try to > grab too much power. I just *knew* someone would take my rant the wrong way. (: fdo .desktop standards allow for what the desktop team was aiming for (simplified menus, afaict), but, it's the implementation of said goal that was, imho, ill-conceived. I'm merely hoping to make that clear, and by codifying/clarifying the Packaging Guidelines on the topic to avoid such folly in the future. -- Rex -- Rex From kevin.kofler at chello.at Sun Jan 7 04:42:31 2007 From: kevin.kofler at chello.at (Kevin Kofler) Date: Sun, 7 Jan 2007 04:42:31 +0000 (UTC) Subject: experimental 2.6.19 kernel preview. References: <1167812088.3567.9.camel@sonlaptop> <20070103173644.GA3862@kerouac> <20070103190743.6bd0fef8@lain.camperquake.de> <20070103191657.GB3862@kerouac> <20070103225824.GA11354@redhat.com> <20070104090244.115940@gmx.net> <20070104172302.GB3129@redhat.com> <20070107040605.GC1905@redhat.com> Message-ID: Dave Jones redhat.com> writes: > You can find them at http://people.redhat.com/davej/kernels/Fedora/FC6/ 2888 is still missing the sata-promise-pata.patch rebase, right? Unfortunately, that makes it unusable for me, because I have a PATA drive on a Promise SATA/PATA RAID controller and there's no way I can rewire things differently because I have 5 IDE/PATA devices (3 HDDs, 1 DVD reader and 1 DVD burner). (I'm posting this mainly so that others in the same situation are warned.) Kevin Kofler From davej at redhat.com Sun Jan 7 04:46:31 2007 From: davej at redhat.com (Dave Jones) Date: Sat, 6 Jan 2007 23:46:31 -0500 Subject: experimental 2.6.19 kernel preview. In-Reply-To: References: <1167812088.3567.9.camel@sonlaptop> <20070103173644.GA3862@kerouac> <20070103190743.6bd0fef8@lain.camperquake.de> <20070103191657.GB3862@kerouac> <20070103225824.GA11354@redhat.com> <20070104090244.115940@gmx.net> <20070104172302.GB3129@redhat.com> <20070107040605.GC1905@redhat.com> Message-ID: <20070107044631.GB6111@redhat.com> On Sun, Jan 07, 2007 at 04:42:31AM +0000, Kevin Kofler wrote: > Dave Jones redhat.com> writes: > > You can find them at http://people.redhat.com/davej/kernels/Fedora/FC6/ > > 2888 is still missing the sata-promise-pata.patch rebase, right? Unfortunately, > that makes it unusable for me, because I have a PATA drive on a Promise > SATA/PATA RAID controller and there's no way I can rewire things differently > because I have 5 IDE/PATA devices (3 HDDs, 1 DVD reader and 1 DVD burner). (I'm > posting this mainly so that others in the same situation are warned.) yeah, that's one of the aforementioned 'bits that need tweaking'. It's on my todo. Dave -- http://www.codemonkey.org.uk From jspaleta at gmail.com Sun Jan 7 05:34:09 2007 From: jspaleta at gmail.com (Jeff Spaleta) Date: Sat, 6 Jan 2007 20:34:09 -0900 Subject: experimental 2.6.19 kernel preview. In-Reply-To: <20070107040605.GC1905@redhat.com> References: <1167812088.3567.9.camel@sonlaptop> <20070103173644.GA3862@kerouac> <20070103190743.6bd0fef8@lain.camperquake.de> <20070103191657.GB3862@kerouac> <20070103225824.GA11354@redhat.com> <20070104090244.115940@gmx.net> <20070104172302.GB3129@redhat.com> <20070107040605.GC1905@redhat.com> Message-ID: <604aa7910701062134j1f7eb2c4p1e1c8b8101781c2e@mail.gmail.com> On 1/6/07, Dave Jones wrote: > I've been working on a 2.6.19 update for FC6 over the last > few weeks, and it's starting to feel 'almost ready'. > Before I push this out to updates-testing though, I'd rather > have a few people 'kick the tyres' to make sure there's > nothing really silly wrong with these. Just for my own information, does this include the alsa 1.0.13 driver codebase? -jef From vnpenguin at vnoss.org Sun Jan 7 05:58:58 2007 From: vnpenguin at vnoss.org (Vnpenguin) Date: Sun, 7 Jan 2007 06:58:58 +0100 Subject: Fedora 7 (Everything installs) In-Reply-To: <20070107005024.GC20448@dspnet.fr.eu.org> References: <20070104195032.GE4693@nostromo.devel.redhat.com> <7873-SnapperMsg827D11E1C1C47D24@70.6.76.140> <1168036027.26602.4.camel@localhost.localdomain> <1168037038.3358.16.camel@mentorng.gurulabs.com> <45A00C66.7070907@redhat.com> <604aa7910701061312n3aaa6454q6cd7325aeeea2c51@mail.gmail.com> <20070107005024.GC20448@dspnet.fr.eu.org> Message-ID: On 1/7/07, Olivier Galibert wrote: > > Ok, I burn a standard fedora iso, I boot on it, please do tell me > where is the command line or whatever I can use to input kickstart > commands. > Have a look at: http://www.redhat.com/docs/manuals/linux/RHL-9-Manual/custom-guide/ch-kickstart2.html HTH -- http://vnoss.org From rhally at mindspring.com Sun Jan 7 06:03:23 2007 From: rhally at mindspring.com (Richard Hally) Date: Sun, 07 Jan 2007 01:03:23 -0500 Subject: experimental 2.6.19 kernel preview. In-Reply-To: <20070107040605.GC1905@redhat.com> References: <1167812088.3567.9.camel@sonlaptop> <20070103173644.GA3862@kerouac> <20070103190743.6bd0fef8@lain.camperquake.de> <20070103191657.GB3862@kerouac> <20070103225824.GA11354@redhat.com> <20070104090244.115940@gmx.net> <20070104172302.GB3129@redhat.com> <20070107040605.GC1905@redhat.com> Message-ID: <45A08D2B.3070909@mindspring.com> Dave Jones wrote: > On Thu, Jan 04, 2007 at 12:23:02PM -0500, Dave Jones wrote: > > > note that this build doesn't have the fix for the mmap corruption problem > > which got quite a bit of attention last week. I'll get a fixed build > > up there soon, but in the meantime, tread carefully with this one. > > I've been working on a 2.6.19 update for FC6 over the last > few weeks, and it's starting to feel 'almost ready'. > Before I push this out to updates-testing though, I'd rather > have a few people 'kick the tyres' to make sure there's > nothing really silly wrong with these. > > There are still 1-2 bits that need some more tweaking/fixing that I > already know about, but I'm blocking on other people to get those fixed. > > You can find them at http://people.redhat.com/davej/kernels/Fedora/FC6/ > > Notable points: > > - The big difference here vs the 2.6.19 that briefly showed up > in rawhide is that this kernel sticks with the older IDE code > (so you won't get a nasty surprise when your /dev/hda becomes sda etc). > I just don't feel comfortable pushing that as an update without > worrying about regressions. It doesn't boot on my rawhide box which is a one IDE hard drive box. the error is: "/bin/nash: error while loading shared libraries: libm.so.6: cannot open shared object file: No such file or directory. Kernel panic - not syncing: Attempted to kill init!" none of the other 2.6.19 kernels from rawhide will boot either. Richard From fedora at leemhuis.info Sun Jan 7 08:09:08 2007 From: fedora at leemhuis.info (Thorsten Leemhuis) Date: Sun, 07 Jan 2007 09:09:08 +0100 Subject: experimental 2.6.19 kernel preview. In-Reply-To: <604aa7910701062134j1f7eb2c4p1e1c8b8101781c2e@mail.gmail.com> References: <1167812088.3567.9.camel@sonlaptop> <20070103173644.GA3862@kerouac> <20070103190743.6bd0fef8@lain.camperquake.de> <20070103191657.GB3862@kerouac> <20070103225824.GA11354@redhat.com> <20070104090244.115940@gmx.net> <20070104172302.GB3129@redhat.com> <20070107040605.GC1905@redhat.com> <604aa7910701062134j1f7eb2c4p1e1c8b8101781c2e@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <45A0AAA4.1000008@leemhuis.info> Jeff Spaleta schrieb: > On 1/6/07, Dave Jones wrote: >> I've been working on a 2.6.19 update for FC6 over the last >> few weeks, and it's starting to feel 'almost ready'. >> Before I push this out to updates-testing though, I'd rather >> have a few people 'kick the tyres' to make sure there's >> nothing really silly wrong with these. Dave, booted and runs fine on two of my machines so far. I'll install it on another machine later and will yell if any problems turn up. BTW, I had RPM database corruptions now and then with 2.6.18 (more than usual with that kernel at least). But it was not really reproducible... > Just for my own information, does this include the alsa 1.0.13 driver codebase? FYI: [thl at notebook ~]$ uname -r 2.6.19-1.2888.fc6 [thl at notebook ~]$ cat /proc/asound/version Advanced Linux Sound Architecture Driver Version 1.0.13 (Tue Nov 28 14:07:24 2006 UTC). [thl at notebook ~]$ CU thl From fedora at leemhuis.info Sun Jan 7 08:24:00 2007 From: fedora at leemhuis.info (Thorsten Leemhuis) Date: Sun, 07 Jan 2007 09:24:00 +0100 Subject: wiki reorganization In-Reply-To: <459FE1A9.4010204@fedoraproject.org> References: <459FE1A9.4010204@fedoraproject.org> Message-ID: <45A0AE20.3000803@leemhuis.info> Rahul Sundaram schrieb: > Anticipating the upcoming merge of Fedora Core and Extras I have been > removing the references to Fedora Core and replacing it with appropriate > terms throughout the wiki but I would need suggestions on how to handle > pages within the /Extras namespace. Would moving them to /Packaging > make sense? Can we considering dropping the ACL's in the packaging page > and just add a note on top that changes needs to be handled by the > packaging committee? +1 for moving most of the stuff to Packaging/ (?) . But we need to make sure that the Review Guidelines and the other stuff thats remains protected by ACL's get moved to their own namespace, too ( /Packaging/Guidelines/ for example). The frontpage for that namespace IMHO need a clear statement why there are such restricted ACL's. With this scheme we further could clearly differentiate between general packaging stuff (/Packaging/) and the stuff that's maintained by the Packaging Committee (/Packaging/Guidelines/*). @Spot/Packaging Committee: Does that sound sane for you, too? BTW, I doubt those ACL's are useful (actually, I think they hurt) -- I prefer if all contributors can make small changes everywhere. The people that maintain those guidelines should watch those pages closely via subscription in the wiki; if someone does something bad somewhere it's easy to revert and bring it up in a meeting. But well, that the buisiness of the Packaging Committee, so who am I to complain... CU thl (?) -- maybe it might be a good idea to wait with it a bit more until we roughly know how the new merged Core and Extras world is governed. I'll post some thoughts about it later to FAB From drago01 at gmail.com Sun Jan 7 08:47:48 2007 From: drago01 at gmail.com (dragoran) Date: Sun, 07 Jan 2007 09:47:48 +0100 Subject: experimental 2.6.19 kernel preview. In-Reply-To: <20070107040605.GC1905@redhat.com> References: <1167812088.3567.9.camel@sonlaptop> <20070103173644.GA3862@kerouac> <20070103190743.6bd0fef8@lain.camperquake.de> <20070103191657.GB3862@kerouac> <20070103225824.GA11354@redhat.com> <20070104090244.115940@gmx.net> <20070104172302.GB3129@redhat.com> <20070107040605.GC1905@redhat.com> Message-ID: <45A0B3B4.20402@gmail.com> Dave Jones wrote: > On Thu, Jan 04, 2007 at 12:23:02PM -0500, Dave Jones wrote: > > > note that this build doesn't have the fix for the mmap corruption problem > > which got quite a bit of attention last week. I'll get a fixed build > > up there soon, but in the meantime, tread carefully with this one. > > I've been working on a 2.6.19 update for FC6 over the last > few weeks, and it's starting to feel 'almost ready'. > Before I push this out to updates-testing though, I'd rather > have a few people 'kick the tyres' to make sure there's > nothing really silly wrong with these. > [...] > I installed it on my x86_64 box It boots and works fine. But I found one regression: lm_sensors stopped working. sensors just displays "General parse error" (maybe a updated package is needed) booting into a 2.6.18 kernel solves the issue (sensors works) one more thing (not a regression): can you enable the ntfs read only driver in the kernel builds? the patent issues are resolved and there is no need to recompile it every time the kernel gets updated. > Dave > > From drago01 at gmail.com Sun Jan 7 08:50:23 2007 From: drago01 at gmail.com (dragoran) Date: Sun, 07 Jan 2007 09:50:23 +0100 Subject: experimental 2.6.19 kernel preview. In-Reply-To: <20070107040605.GC1905@redhat.com> References: <1167812088.3567.9.camel@sonlaptop> <20070103173644.GA3862@kerouac> <20070103190743.6bd0fef8@lain.camperquake.de> <20070103191657.GB3862@kerouac> <20070103225824.GA11354@redhat.com> <20070104090244.115940@gmx.net> <20070104172302.GB3129@redhat.com> <20070107040605.GC1905@redhat.com> Message-ID: <45A0B44F.1070301@gmail.com> something about the lm_sensors issue: according to http://www.lm-sensors.org/ a new package is required because of k8_temp "December 5th, 2006: Note to k8temp users. The Linux 2.6.19 kernel features a new hardware monitoring driver, k8temp, which supports all recent AMD K8 CPUs. The driver will load automatically on supported systems. Due to technical specificities of this driver, upgrade to lm_sensors 2.10.1 is mandatory. Older versions of libsensors will fail with a "General parse error" message. If you can't upgrade lm_sensors for any reason, you'll have to blacklist the k8temp driver to prevent it from being loaded. Thanks to Artem S. Tashkinov for notifying us. " * * From fedora at leemhuis.info Sun Jan 7 08:53:32 2007 From: fedora at leemhuis.info (Thorsten Leemhuis) Date: Sun, 07 Jan 2007 09:53:32 +0100 Subject: experimental 2.6.19 kernel preview. In-Reply-To: <45A0B3B4.20402@gmail.com> References: <1167812088.3567.9.camel@sonlaptop> <20070103173644.GA3862@kerouac> <20070103190743.6bd0fef8@lain.camperquake.de> <20070103191657.GB3862@kerouac> <20070103225824.GA11354@redhat.com> <20070104090244.115940@gmx.net> <20070104172302.GB3129@redhat.com> <20070107040605.GC1905@redhat.com> <45A0B3B4.20402@gmail.com> Message-ID: <45A0B50C.3020807@leemhuis.info> dragoran schrieb: > one more thing (not a regression): > can you enable the ntfs read only driver in the kernel builds? the > patent issues are resolved and there is no need to recompile it every > time the kernel gets updated. +1 -- this, BTW, is tracked in https://bugzilla.redhat.com/bugzilla/show_bug.cgi?id=65749 afaics. CU thl From drago01 at gmail.com Sun Jan 7 09:22:34 2007 From: drago01 at gmail.com (dragoran) Date: Sun, 07 Jan 2007 10:22:34 +0100 Subject: experimental 2.6.19 kernel preview. In-Reply-To: <20070107040605.GC1905@redhat.com> References: <1167812088.3567.9.camel@sonlaptop> <20070103173644.GA3862@kerouac> <20070103190743.6bd0fef8@lain.camperquake.de> <20070103191657.GB3862@kerouac> <20070103225824.GA11354@redhat.com> <20070104090244.115940@gmx.net> <20070104172302.GB3129@redhat.com> <20070107040605.GC1905@redhat.com> Message-ID: <45A0BBDA.5040009@gmail.com> ok now tested on my core 2 duo laptop (also using x86_64). It works fine here too but I get a weird message on boot: [..] Intel(R) Core(TM)2 CPU T7400 @ 2.16GHz stepping 06 CPU 1: Syncing TSC to CPU 0. CPU 1: synchronized TSC with CPU 0 (last diff 0 cycles, maxerr 728 cycles) Brought up 2 CPUs testing NMI watchdog ... CPU#0: NMI appears to be stuck (59->64)! CPU#1: NMI appears to be stuck (27->32)! time.c: Using 14.318180 MHz WALL HPET GTOD HPET timer. time.c: Detected 2166.829 MHz processor. sizeof(vma)=176 bytes sizeof(page)=64 bytes sizeof(inode)=720 bytes sizeof(dentry)=224 bytes sizeof(ext3inode)=968 bytes sizeof(buffer_head)=104 bytes sizeof(skbuff)=240 bytes sizeof(task_struct)=1904 bytes Uhhuh. NMI received for unknown reason 2c. Do you have a strange power saving mode enabled? Dazed and confused, but trying to continue Uhhuh. NMI received for unknown reason 00. Do you have a strange power saving mode enabled? Dazed and confused, but trying to continue migration_cost=23 [...] what does this mean? I don't see it with 2.6.18 and I have not seen any problems because of it (yet) From laroche at redhat.com Sun Jan 7 09:37:55 2007 From: laroche at redhat.com (Florian La Roche) Date: Sun, 7 Jan 2007 10:37:55 +0100 Subject: Status of User Private Group Scheme (UPG) In-Reply-To: <1168040844.3358.67.camel@mentorng.gurulabs.com> References: <1168040844.3358.67.camel@mentorng.gurulabs.com> Message-ID: <20070107093755.GA17298@dudweiler.stuttgart.redhat.com> > IMHO, either UPG should stay in it's entirety, or it should go in it's > entirety. Hello Dax Kelson, UPG stay in entirely and the change is reverted since end of Nov. within FC-development. regards, Florian La Roche From rwarsow at online.de Sun Jan 7 10:21:52 2007 From: rwarsow at online.de (ronald warsow) Date: Sun, 07 Jan 2007 11:21:52 +0100 Subject: experimental 2.6.19 kernel preview Message-ID: <45A0C9C0.3070100@online.de> hallo with the xen kernel on my hp nx6110 (laptop) i get [root at laptop ~]# dmesg|grep b44 b44.c:v1.01 (Jun 16, 2006) ACPI: PCI Interrupt 0000:02:0e.0[A] -> GSI 16 (level, low) -> IRQ 17 b44 0000:02:0e.0: No usable DMA configuration, aborting. ACPI: PCI interrupt for device 0000:02:0e.0 disabled b44: probe of 0000:02:0e.0 failed with error -5 [root at laptop ~]# lspci|more .... 02:0e.0 Ethernet controller: Broadcom Corporation BCM4401-B0 100Base-TX (rev 02) [root at laptop Desktop]# cat /proc/interrupts ... 14: 22142 Phys-irq-level ide0 16: 1 Phys-irq-level yenta, uhci_hcd:usb3 17: 73720 Phys-irq-level i915 at pci:0000:00:02.0 18: 7128 Phys-irq-level uhci_hcd:usb1, ehci_hcd:usb5 19: 0 Phys-irq-level uhci_hcd:usb2 20: 0 Phys-irq-level uhci_hcd:usb4 21: 3 Phys-irq-level ohci1394 ... is this known ? any workarounds ? esp. since the normal kernel loads/runs this module ! interrupt 17 ! another point with xen is that i'm unable to run X on my P4 box with an matrox mga550 card. searching through bz, i found #213940 and 1-2 others. or is this mga-specific and should i open a new bz ? -- ronald From buildsys at redhat.com Sun Jan 7 11:16:43 2007 From: buildsys at redhat.com (buildsys at redhat.com) Date: Sun, 7 Jan 2007 06:16:43 -0500 Subject: rawhide report: 20070107 changes Message-ID: <200701071116.l07BGh4X023722@hs20-bc2-6.build.redhat.com> Updated Packages: agg-2.5-1 --------- * Sat Jan 06 2007 Caolan McNamara - 2.5-1 - bump to 2.5 eclipse-1:3.2.1-27.fc7 ---------------------- * Fri Jan 05 2007 Ben Konrath 3.2.1-27 - Use /g in tomcat version replacement. - Disable com.jcraft.jsch_0.1.28.jar and org.eclipse.osgi_3.2.1.R32x_v20060919.jar on ia64. * Tue Dec 19 2006 Ben Konrath 3.2.1-26 - Use sed instead of patch for tomcat version. - Add BuildRequires desktop-file-utils. * Wed Dec 06 2006 Ben Konrath 3.2.1-25 - Add %{_libdir}/eclipse dir to files list of libswt-gtk2. - Resolves: #211008. kernel-2.6.19-1.2905.fc7 ------------------------ * Sat Jan 06 2007 Dave Jones - 2.6.20rc3-git4 libuser-0.55-2 -------------- * Sat Jan 06 2007 Jeremy Katz - 0.55-2 - Fix inconsistent PyObject/PyMem usage (#220679) newt-0.52.4-3.fc7 ----------------- * Sat Jan 06 2007 Jeremy Katz - 0.52.4-3 - fix memory allocation in snack to be consistent (#212780) python-2.5-8.fc7 ---------------- * Sat Jan 06 2007 Jeremy Katz - 2.5.3-8 - fix extensions to use shared libpython (#219564) - all 64bit platforms need the regex fix (#122304) * Wed Jan 03 2007 Jeremy Katz - 2.5.3-7 - fix ctypes to not require execstack (#220669) * Fri Dec 15 2006 Jeremy Katz - 2.5.3-6 - don't link against compat-db (Robert Scheck) pyxf86config-0.3.32-1.fc7 ------------------------- * Sat Jan 06 2007 Jeremy Katz - 0.3.32-1 - Fix inconsistent PyObject/PyMem usage (#219918, #220993) setroubleshoot-1.8.13-1.fc7 --------------------------- * Sat Jan 06 2007 John Dennis - 1.8.13-1 - update translations - change SETroubleshootDatabase so it is optional if it's backed by a file, this fixes the problem of us littering temporary files when scanning logfiles which does not require persistence. - disable the view logfile menu item if no logfile has been opened - fix redundant log messages for case where there is no log file and the console flag is set. When there is no log file the logging module opens a console stream, thus the console stream produced by the console flag was redundant. - add username and password command line arguments rework startup logic so that all command line args are processed before we do any real work - rework the email preferences so that each email address can have a filter type associated with it. add a new filter_type "Ignore After First Alert" which filters after the first alert has been delivered - add UI for setting the email addresses alerts are sent to. Add menu item to edit email list, add email list dialog. Remove 'recipient' config file entry, now list is stored in seperate file. Add rpc to query and set the email list, the GUI calls this to get the current list from the server and set it in the server, it is the server which reads and writes the file. Add 'enable' flag to each email entry. Modify how the server iterates over the email list when it receives an alert. When marking an alert as having been sent the username is the email address but with 'email:' prepended so as not to collide with non-email filtering options for the same user. Broken deps for s390 ---------------------------------------------------------- systemtap - 0.5.10-1.fc7.s390 requires kernel >= 0:2.6.9-11 systemtap-runtime - 0.5.10-1.fc7.s390 requires kernel >= 0:2.6.9-11 From pemboa at gmail.com Sun Jan 7 11:47:28 2007 From: pemboa at gmail.com (Arthur Pemberton) Date: Sun, 7 Jan 2007 05:47:28 -0600 Subject: Fedora 7 In-Reply-To: <20070104195032.GE4693@nostromo.devel.redhat.com> References: <20070104195032.GE4693@nostromo.devel.redhat.com> Message-ID: <16de708d0701070347gee13d61y9e596e6304b3c9b8@mail.gmail.com> On 1/4/07, Bill Nottingham wrote: > - A Fedora Desktop spin > - A Fedora Server spin > - A Fedora KDE spin Two things here: 1) Is there going to be further effort towards a minimalistic install as official release option? I seem to here/see people asking for a 1-2 CD media install option (as in they can safely download only the first two cd isos and get a Fedora install up) 2) The Desktop Environment catch 22 seems to be continuing: KDE gets less love since the measurable KDE using community is small, while the measurable KDE community is small since those who heavily use KDE go elsewhere to get their KDE fix (Kubuntu, SuSe). And with the recent bad press, there may be a few who would like another distro to use KDE on. Might also mention (for no particular reason) that I actually like the fact that the system-config tools are in Gtk and look different from my desktop (Qt) application > - Make LiveCDs as a part of the distribution release process Any insight if these LiveCDs will be an adequate replacement for a Knoppix CD? > - Speedup of bootup and shutdown I've never worried about this too much, but i suppose that would be nice. > - Add wireless firmware for all the chipsets we can I would be just happy for a way of reliably knowing that I even need a code - as opposed to modules (drivers) just failing to work. > - Fixing the proliferation of dictionary packages This is a Linux wide need I vote for keeping Fedora 7 unreleased till at least 90% of these features are implemented, they seem to be worth the wait. -- Fedora Core 6 and proud From dominik at greysector.net Sun Jan 7 11:53:16 2007 From: dominik at greysector.net (Dominik 'Rathann' Mierzejewski) Date: Sun, 7 Jan 2007 12:53:16 +0100 Subject: experimental 2.6.19 kernel preview. In-Reply-To: <45A0B50C.3020807@leemhuis.info> References: <1167812088.3567.9.camel@sonlaptop> <20070103173644.GA3862@kerouac> <20070103190743.6bd0fef8@lain.camperquake.de> <20070103191657.GB3862@kerouac> <20070103225824.GA11354@redhat.com> <20070104090244.115940@gmx.net> <20070104172302.GB3129@redhat.com> <20070107040605.GC1905@redhat.com> <45A0B3B4.20402@gmail.com> <45A0B50C.3020807@leemhuis.info> Message-ID: <20070107115316.GE10088@ryvius.pekin.waw.pl> On Sunday, 07 January 2007 at 09:53, Thorsten Leemhuis wrote: > dragoran schrieb: > > one more thing (not a regression): > > can you enable the ntfs read only driver in the kernel builds? the > > patent issues are resolved and there is no need to recompile it every > > time the kernel gets updated. > > +1 -- this, BTW, is tracked in > https://bugzilla.redhat.com/bugzilla/show_bug.cgi?id=65749 > afaics. ntfs-3g fuse driver is in Extras and supports writing. I expect with fc7 this becomes a moot point, because of the Core/Extras merger. Regards, R. -- Fedora Extras contributor http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/DominikMierzejewski Livna contributor http://rpm.livna.org MPlayer developer http://mplayerhq.hu "Faith manages." -- Delenn to Lennier in Babylon 5:"Confessions and Lamentations" From pemboa at gmail.com Sun Jan 7 12:10:01 2007 From: pemboa at gmail.com (Arthur Pemberton) Date: Sun, 7 Jan 2007 06:10:01 -0600 Subject: Fedora 7 In-Reply-To: <20070104195032.GE4693@nostromo.devel.redhat.com> References: <20070104195032.GE4693@nostromo.devel.redhat.com> Message-ID: <16de708d0701070410k23713cb3l1ff0f5279dcbe55c@mail.gmail.com> On 1/4/07, Bill Nottingham wrote: > And, what would a release be without features. We've identified > 28 features that we'd like to include in the release, available > at http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Releases/7/Features: Two more things: 1) Is there any plan to have some sort of Fedora recommends hardware of manufacturer X,Y,Z? I'm not thinking of hardware certification, just recommendations. I think this would be very beneficial. 2) I haven't heard much of Python 2.5 for Fedora 7. Comments would be appreciated. -- Fedora Core 6 and proud From drago01 at gmail.com Sun Jan 7 12:11:37 2007 From: drago01 at gmail.com (dragoran) Date: Sun, 07 Jan 2007 13:11:37 +0100 Subject: experimental 2.6.19 kernel preview. In-Reply-To: <20070107040605.GC1905@redhat.com> References: <1167812088.3567.9.camel@sonlaptop> <20070103173644.GA3862@kerouac> <20070103190743.6bd0fef8@lain.camperquake.de> <20070103191657.GB3862@kerouac> <20070103225824.GA11354@redhat.com> <20070104090244.115940@gmx.net> <20070104172302.GB3129@redhat.com> <20070107040605.GC1905@redhat.com> Message-ID: <45A0E379.3080703@gmail.com> after some experiments I found out that: the nmi message only comes at boot and only when using the battery (on AC=no message) when the system runs (heavy laod) with battery/AC no message. also no freezes or anything like that. what could be causing this message? From fedora at leemhuis.info Sun Jan 7 12:13:13 2007 From: fedora at leemhuis.info (Thorsten Leemhuis) Date: Sun, 07 Jan 2007 13:13:13 +0100 Subject: experimental 2.6.19 kernel preview. In-Reply-To: <20070107115316.GE10088@ryvius.pekin.waw.pl> References: <1167812088.3567.9.camel@sonlaptop> <20070103173644.GA3862@kerouac> <20070103190743.6bd0fef8@lain.camperquake.de> <20070103191657.GB3862@kerouac> <20070103225824.GA11354@redhat.com> <20070104090244.115940@gmx.net> <20070104172302.GB3129@redhat.com> <20070107040605.GC1905@redhat.com> <45A0B3B4.20402@gmail.com> <45A0B50C.3020807@leemhuis.info> <20070107115316.GE10088@ryvius.pekin.waw.pl> Message-ID: <45A0E3D9.2040303@leemhuis.info> Dominik 'Rathann' Mierzejewski schrieb: > On Sunday, 07 January 2007 at 09:53, Thorsten Leemhuis wrote: >> dragoran schrieb: >>> one more thing (not a regression): >>> can you enable the ntfs read only driver in the kernel builds? the >>> patent issues are resolved and there is no need to recompile it every >>> time the kernel gets updated. >> +1 -- this, BTW, is tracked in >> https://bugzilla.redhat.com/bugzilla/show_bug.cgi?id=65749 >> afaics. > ntfs-3g fuse driver is in Extras and supports writing. I expect with fc7 > this becomes a moot point, because of the Core/Extras merger. There are some people (like me) that simply prefer the in-kernel ntfs driver. So IMHO let's simply ship both. CU thl From dominik at greysector.net Sun Jan 7 12:21:29 2007 From: dominik at greysector.net (Dominik 'Rathann' Mierzejewski) Date: Sun, 7 Jan 2007 13:21:29 +0100 Subject: experimental 2.6.19 kernel preview. In-Reply-To: <45A0E3D9.2040303@leemhuis.info> References: <20070103190743.6bd0fef8@lain.camperquake.de> <20070103191657.GB3862@kerouac> <20070103225824.GA11354@redhat.com> <20070104090244.115940@gmx.net> <20070104172302.GB3129@redhat.com> <20070107040605.GC1905@redhat.com> <45A0B3B4.20402@gmail.com> <45A0B50C.3020807@leemhuis.info> <20070107115316.GE10088@ryvius.pekin.waw.pl> <45A0E3D9.2040303@leemhuis.info> Message-ID: <20070107122129.GF10088@ryvius.pekin.waw.pl> On Sunday, 07 January 2007 at 13:13, Thorsten Leemhuis wrote: > Dominik 'Rathann' Mierzejewski schrieb: > > On Sunday, 07 January 2007 at 09:53, Thorsten Leemhuis wrote: > >> dragoran schrieb: > >>> one more thing (not a regression): > >>> can you enable the ntfs read only driver in the kernel builds? the > >>> patent issues are resolved and there is no need to recompile it every > >>> time the kernel gets updated. > >> +1 -- this, BTW, is tracked in > >> https://bugzilla.redhat.com/bugzilla/show_bug.cgi?id=65749 > >> afaics. > > ntfs-3g fuse driver is in Extras and supports writing. I expect with fc7 > > this becomes a moot point, because of the Core/Extras merger. > > There are some people (like me) that simply prefer the in-kernel ntfs > driver. So IMHO let's simply ship both. Oh, I have nothing against that. I don't know how feasible it is, but perhaps ntfs-3g could be integrated into kernel someday. Regards, R. -- Fedora Extras contributor http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/DominikMierzejewski Livna contributor http://rpm.livna.org MPlayer developer http://mplayerhq.hu "Faith manages." -- Delenn to Lennier in Babylon 5:"Confessions and Lamentations" From drago01 at gmail.com Sun Jan 7 12:51:52 2007 From: drago01 at gmail.com (dragoran) Date: Sun, 07 Jan 2007 13:51:52 +0100 Subject: experimental 2.6.19 kernel preview. In-Reply-To: <20070107122129.GF10088@ryvius.pekin.waw.pl> References: <20070103190743.6bd0fef8@lain.camperquake.de> <20070103191657.GB3862@kerouac> <20070103225824.GA11354@redhat.com> <20070104090244.115940@gmx.net> <20070104172302.GB3129@redhat.com> <20070107040605.GC1905@redhat.com> <45A0B3B4.20402@gmail.com> <45A0B50C.3020807@leemhuis.info> <20070107115316.GE10088@ryvius.pekin.waw.pl> <45A0E3D9.2040303@leemhuis.info> <20070107122129.GF10088@ryvius.pekin.waw.pl> Message-ID: <45A0ECE8.6030503@gmail.com> Dominik 'Rathann' Mierzejewski wrote: > On Sunday, 07 January 2007 at 13:13, Thorsten Leemhuis wrote: > >> Dominik 'Rathann' Mierzejewski schrieb: >> >>> On Sunday, 07 January 2007 at 09:53, Thorsten Leemhuis wrote: >>> >>>> dragoran schrieb: >>>> >>>>> one more thing (not a regression): >>>>> can you enable the ntfs read only driver in the kernel builds? the >>>>> patent issues are resolved and there is no need to recompile it every >>>>> time the kernel gets updated. >>>>> >>>> +1 -- this, BTW, is tracked in >>>> https://bugzilla.redhat.com/bugzilla/show_bug.cgi?id=65749 >>>> afaics. >>>> >>> ntfs-3g fuse driver is in Extras and supports writing. I expect with fc7 >>> this becomes a moot point, because of the Core/Extras merger. >>> >> There are some people (like me) that simply prefer the in-kernel ntfs >> driver. So IMHO let's simply ship both. >> > > +1 > Oh, I have nothing against that. I don't know how feasible it is, but perhaps > ntfs-3g could be integrated into kernel someday. > > no it can't its a fuse fs (works in userspace) the in kernel driver will support write too (later) > Regards, > R. > > From drago01 at gmail.com Sun Jan 7 12:55:18 2007 From: drago01 at gmail.com (dragoran) Date: Sun, 07 Jan 2007 13:55:18 +0100 Subject: Fedora 7 In-Reply-To: <16de708d0701070410k23713cb3l1ff0f5279dcbe55c@mail.gmail.com> References: <20070104195032.GE4693@nostromo.devel.redhat.com> <16de708d0701070410k23713cb3l1ff0f5279dcbe55c@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <45A0EDB6.9050802@gmail.com> Arthur Pemberton wrote: > On 1/4/07, Bill Nottingham wrote: >> And, what would a release be without features. We've identified >> 28 features that we'd like to include in the release, available >> at http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Releases/7/Features: > > Two more things: > > 1) Is there any plan to have some sort of Fedora recommends hardware > of manufacturer X,Y,Z? I'm not thinking of hardware certification, > just recommendations. I think this would be very beneficial. > we should create some sort of hw db where people can check which hw is supported by fedora and which not > 2) I haven't heard much of Python 2.5 for Fedora 7. Comments would be > appreciated. > its in rawhide so it should be in F7 From sundaram at fedoraproject.org Sun Jan 7 12:54:11 2007 From: sundaram at fedoraproject.org (Rahul Sundaram) Date: Sun, 07 Jan 2007 18:24:11 +0530 Subject: Fedora 7 In-Reply-To: <45A0EDB6.9050802@gmail.com> References: <20070104195032.GE4693@nostromo.devel.redhat.com> <16de708d0701070410k23713cb3l1ff0f5279dcbe55c@mail.gmail.com> <45A0EDB6.9050802@gmail.com> Message-ID: <45A0ED73.1050409@fedoraproject.org> dragoran wrote: > Arthur Pemberton wrote: >> On 1/4/07, Bill Nottingham wrote: >>> And, what would a release be without features. We've identified >>> 28 features that we'd like to include in the release, available >>> at http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Releases/7/Features: >> >> Two more things: >> >> 1) Is there any plan to have some sort of Fedora recommends hardware >> of manufacturer X,Y,Z? I'm not thinking of hardware certification, >> just recommendations. I think this would be very beneficial. >> > we should create some sort of hw db where people can check which hw is > supported by fedora and which not See http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/MikeMcGrath/HardwareProfiler Rahul From roozbeh at farsiweb.info Sat Jan 6 18:29:04 2007 From: roozbeh at farsiweb.info (Roozbeh Pournader) Date: Sat, 06 Jan 2007 21:59:04 +0330 Subject: Fedora 7 In-Reply-To: <459FE09C.5010103@fedoraproject.org> References: <20070104195032.GE4693@nostromo.devel.redhat.com> <200701041613.50625.jkeating@redhat.com> <459D702A.8050705@fedoraproject.org> <200701041653.40217.jkeating@redhat.com> <1167952443.2847.8.camel@zelda.fubar.dk> <459F5895.7090907@redhat.com> <53B4B633-5F87-4559-BF07-AEBFB18E7EC3@fubar.dk> <459FD726.9000604@fedoraproject.org> <970B113B-CA12-4835-A2AD-E485E3EACC00@fubar.dk> <459FE09C.5010103@fedoraproject.org> Message-ID: <1168108144.3160.36.camel@shalil.farsiweb.info> On Sat, 2007-01-06 at 23:17 +0530, Rahul Sundaram wrote: > I think that's because not many people know about fedora-desktop list. > Would you think merging it with fedora-devel list would be a good thing? It will be a bad thing. fedora-devel already has a lot of spam for us poor desktop-oriented guys. Rename fedora-desktop to fedora-desktop-devel, fine, but the only way to fix the problem you have may be making people to communicate more on the list. And the way it currently goes, most of the discussion is going on in upstream lists, the bugzillas (freedesktop, gnome, and redhat), and IRC. May look bad from your side, but as the involvement in desktop seems to need to be quite long-term, this may be necessary to some degree. Desktop development is not a very rushy business... An important spot that may be fixable is the packaging problem. If the desktop team is doing more packaging and eating less cake, let us (the extra horde?) help them in packaging and let them do the coding (lot of that may happen gradually after the union). We can't help them with RHEL of course, but we don't expect to. Personally speaking, as an untouchable (with regard to RH) Iranian, I find it rather fine the way things are working with the Fedora Desktop team currently. I can easily contribute, things match the upstream closely, people can be found on #fedora-desktop, etc. Roozbeh From Axel.Thimm at ATrpms.net Sun Jan 7 13:25:00 2007 From: Axel.Thimm at ATrpms.net (Axel Thimm) Date: Sun, 7 Jan 2007 14:25:00 +0100 Subject: wiki reorganization In-Reply-To: <45A0AE20.3000803@leemhuis.info> References: <459FE1A9.4010204@fedoraproject.org> <45A0AE20.3000803@leemhuis.info> Message-ID: <20070107132500.GB26973@neu.nirvana> On Sun, Jan 07, 2007 at 09:24:00AM +0100, Thorsten Leemhuis wrote: > Rahul Sundaram schrieb: > > Anticipating the upcoming merge of Fedora Core and Extras I have been > > removing the references to Fedora Core and replacing it with appropriate > > terms throughout the wiki but I would need suggestions on how to handle > > pages within the /Extras namespace. Would moving them to /Packaging > > make sense? Can we considering dropping the ACL's in the packaging page > > and just add a note on top that changes needs to be handled by the > > packaging committee? > > +1 for moving most of the stuff to Packaging/ (?) . I would against merging /Extras and /Packaging for the same reasons merging fedora-extras and fedora-packaging lists. The space under /Extras is more or less about everything, from organisational strutures over _Review_ Guidelines, CVS requests and a lot more. The Packaging area remained rather packaging (not package) focused and is mainly maintained by the people for the packaging committee. Perhaps some parts of /Extras make sense to land in /Packaging, but generally I feel like simply removing the /Extras prefix from the URL may be a better idea. -- Axel.Thimm at ATrpms.net -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 189 bytes Desc: not available URL: From fedora-devel-list.listman at linuxnetz.de Sun Jan 7 13:29:36 2007 From: fedora-devel-list.listman at linuxnetz.de (Robert Scheck) Date: Sun, 7 Jan 2007 14:29:36 +0100 Subject: Fedora 7 In-Reply-To: <20070105211037.GH23650@nostromo.devel.redhat.com> References: <200701050004.23169.jkeating@redhat.com> <1167998004.3159.43.camel@vader.jdub.homelinux.org> <200701050818.54425.jkeating@redhat.com> <1168007328.3544.6.camel@wireless-62.media.mit.edu> <20070105145417.GA14720@dspnet.fr.eu.org> <1168012009.3544.42.camel@wireless-62.media.mit.edu> <459E783A.8020501@olen.net> <1168014453.3544.48.camel@wireless-62.media.mit.edu> <3e4ec4600701051217j42e67627l353e251cf52a6f19@mail.gmail.com> <20070105211037.GH23650@nostromo.devel.redhat.com> Message-ID: <20070107132936.GA4155@hurricane.linuxnetz.de> Hi Bill, On Fri, 05 Jan 2007, Bill Nottingham wrote: > Michael Wiktowy (michael.wiktowy at gmail.com) said: > > Could someone illuminate me on the non-vile iproute2 style of doing > > this (give me the right jargon to Google)? Is it that you can call the > > aliases anything you want with a mapping/iface combo in > > /etc/network/interfaces? > > Apparently, I was being vile and didn't know it and want to reform. > > Just 'ip addr add dev eth0 192.168.1.1/24'. https://bugzilla.redhat.com/bugzilla/show_bug.cgi?id=132925 time to get rid of this bug until Fedora 7. And maybe you're able to fix the problem with aliases (https://bugzilla.redhat.com/bugzilla/show_bug.cgi?id=132912), too. ;-) Greetings, Robert From dwmw2 at infradead.org Sun Jan 7 13:32:26 2007 From: dwmw2 at infradead.org (David Woodhouse) Date: Sun, 07 Jan 2007 21:32:26 +0800 Subject: Status of User Private Group Scheme (UPG) In-Reply-To: <20070107093755.GA17298@dudweiler.stuttgart.redhat.com> References: <1168040844.3358.67.camel@mentorng.gurulabs.com> <20070107093755.GA17298@dudweiler.stuttgart.redhat.com> Message-ID: <1168176747.14763.0.camel@shinybook.infradead.org> On Sun, 2007-01-07 at 10:37 +0100, Florian La Roche wrote: > UPG stay in entirely and the change is reverted since end of Nov. within > FC-development. Could we have an erratum for FC6 too please? -- dwmw2 From arjan at fenrus.demon.nl Sun Jan 7 13:38:44 2007 From: arjan at fenrus.demon.nl (Arjan van de Ven) Date: Sun, 07 Jan 2007 05:38:44 -0800 Subject: experimental 2.6.19 kernel preview. In-Reply-To: <45A0BBDA.5040009@gmail.com> References: <1167812088.3567.9.camel@sonlaptop> <20070103173644.GA3862@kerouac> <20070103190743.6bd0fef8@lain.camperquake.de> <20070103191657.GB3862@kerouac> <20070103225824.GA11354@redhat.com> <20070104090244.115940@gmx.net> <20070104172302.GB3129@redhat.com> <20070107040605.GC1905@redhat.com> <45A0BBDA.5040009@gmail.com> Message-ID: <1168177144.2972.214.camel@laptopd505.fenrus.org> On Sun, 2007-01-07 at 10:22 +0100, dragoran wrote: > ok now tested on my core 2 duo laptop (also using x86_64). > what does this mean? > I don't see it with 2.6.18 and I have not seen any problems because of > it (yet) > you need to disable nmi_watchdog (by putting nmi_watchdog=0) the code is just broken in recent kernels :( (there's people in my team at Intel working on fixing this) Dave: please disable nmi_watchdog by default in FC x86-64 kernels.. at least until the worst bugs are fixed (but even then it makes little sense to have it enabled anyway) From galibert at pobox.com Sun Jan 7 13:53:55 2007 From: galibert at pobox.com (Olivier Galibert) Date: Sun, 7 Jan 2007 14:53:55 +0100 Subject: Fedora 7 (Everything installs) In-Reply-To: References: <20070104195032.GE4693@nostromo.devel.redhat.com> <7873-SnapperMsg827D11E1C1C47D24@70.6.76.140> <1168036027.26602.4.camel@localhost.localdomain> <1168037038.3358.16.camel@mentorng.gurulabs.com> <45A00C66.7070907@redhat.com> <604aa7910701061312n3aaa6454q6cd7325aeeea2c51@mail.gmail.com> <20070107005024.GC20448@dspnet.fr.eu.org> Message-ID: <20070107135355.GA73208@dspnet.fr.eu.org> On Sun, Jan 07, 2007 at 06:58:58AM +0100, Vnpenguin wrote: > On 1/7/07, Olivier Galibert wrote: > > > >Ok, I burn a standard fedora iso, I boot on it, please do tell me > >where is the command line or whatever I can use to input kickstart > >commands. > > > > Have a look at: > http://www.redhat.com/docs/manuals/linux/RHL-9-Manual/custom-guide/ch-kickstart2.html > > HTH No it doesn't, sorry. Please re-read what you quoted, and realize that I do know about kickstart. AFAIK, you can't give any kickstart commands when you're doing a cdrom install using a standard fedora iso. OG. From sundaram at fedoraproject.org Sun Jan 7 13:57:54 2007 From: sundaram at fedoraproject.org (Rahul Sundaram) Date: Sun, 07 Jan 2007 19:27:54 +0530 Subject: Fedora 7 (Everything installs) In-Reply-To: <20070107135355.GA73208@dspnet.fr.eu.org> References: <20070104195032.GE4693@nostromo.devel.redhat.com> <7873-SnapperMsg827D11E1C1C47D24@70.6.76.140> <1168036027.26602.4.camel@localhost.localdomain> <1168037038.3358.16.camel@mentorng.gurulabs.com> <45A00C66.7070907@redhat.com> <604aa7910701061312n3aaa6454q6cd7325aeeea2c51@mail.gmail.com> <20070107005024.GC20448@dspnet.fr.eu.org> <20070107135355.GA73208@dspnet.fr.eu.org> Message-ID: <45A0FC62.20109@fedoraproject.org> Olivier Galibert wrote: > No it doesn't, sorry. Please re-read what you quoted, and realize > that I do know about kickstart. AFAIK, you can't give any kickstart > commands when you're doing a cdrom install using a standard fedora > iso. The whole point of kickstart is to *automate* that steps so you dont have to do a standard installation or click any buttons. Rahul From fedora at wir-sind-cool.org Sun Jan 7 14:20:07 2007 From: fedora at wir-sind-cool.org (Michael Schwendt) Date: Sun, 7 Jan 2007 15:20:07 +0100 Subject: wiki reorganization In-Reply-To: <20070107132500.GB26973@neu.nirvana> References: <459FE1A9.4010204@fedoraproject.org> <45A0AE20.3000803@leemhuis.info> <20070107132500.GB26973@neu.nirvana> Message-ID: <20070107152007.9c5691e4.fedora@wir-sind-cool.org> On Sun, 7 Jan 2007 14:25:00 +0100, Axel Thimm wrote: > On Sun, Jan 07, 2007 at 09:24:00AM +0100, Thorsten Leemhuis wrote: > > Rahul Sundaram schrieb: > > > Anticipating the upcoming merge of Fedora Core and Extras I have been > > > removing the references to Fedora Core and replacing it with appropriate > > > terms throughout the wiki but I would need suggestions on how to handle > > > pages within the /Extras namespace. Would moving them to /Packaging > > > make sense? Can we considering dropping the ACL's in the packaging page > > > and just add a note on top that changes needs to be handled by the > > > packaging committee? > > > > +1 for moving most of the stuff to Packaging/ (?) . > > I would against merging /Extras and /Packaging for the same reasons > merging fedora-extras and fedora-packaging lists. The space under > /Extras is more or less about everything, from organisational > strutures over _Review_ Guidelines, CVS requests and a lot more. The > Packaging area remained rather packaging (not package) focused and is > mainly maintained by the people for the packaging committee. The CVS requests, Repo requests pages should really move into the ticketing system, where it would be possible to communicate with the requester and where the requester would get notified when the request is done. That doesn't work in the Wiki, because usually the page changelog is the only place for notifications. From fedora at leemhuis.info Sun Jan 7 14:38:12 2007 From: fedora at leemhuis.info (Thorsten Leemhuis) Date: Sun, 07 Jan 2007 15:38:12 +0100 Subject: wiki reorganization In-Reply-To: <20070107152007.9c5691e4.fedora@wir-sind-cool.org> References: <459FE1A9.4010204@fedoraproject.org> <45A0AE20.3000803@leemhuis.info> <20070107132500.GB26973@neu.nirvana> <20070107152007.9c5691e4.fedora@wir-sind-cool.org> Message-ID: <45A105D4.3040006@leemhuis.info> Michael Schwendt schrieb: > > The CVS requests, Repo requests pages should really move into the > ticketing system, where it would be possible to communicate with the > requester and where the requester would get notified when the request is > done. That doesn't work in the Wiki, because usually the page changelog is > the only place for notifications. Agreed, but that's a separate task from the wiki re-organisation. Someone just needs to evaluate how above could be done, write up a proposal how things could work, post it to a proper mailing list for discussion. When discussed and maybe developed further to be acceptable for all affected groups FESCo will approve it (that's still FESCo work currently afaics). CU thl From hughsient at gmail.com Sun Jan 7 14:12:34 2007 From: hughsient at gmail.com (Richard Hughes) Date: Sun, 07 Jan 2007 14:12:34 +0000 Subject: Fedora 7 In-Reply-To: <1168108144.3160.36.camel@shalil.farsiweb.info> References: <20070104195032.GE4693@nostromo.devel.redhat.com> <200701041613.50625.jkeating@redhat.com> <459D702A.8050705@fedoraproject.org> <200701041653.40217.jkeating@redhat.com> <1167952443.2847.8.camel@zelda.fubar.dk> <459F5895.7090907@redhat.com> <53B4B633-5F87-4559-BF07-AEBFB18E7EC3@fubar.dk> <459FD726.9000604@fedoraproject.org> <970B113B-CA12-4835-A2AD-E485E3EACC00@fubar.dk> <459FE09C.5010103@fedoraproject.org> <1168108144.3160.36.camel@shalil.farsiweb.info> Message-ID: <1168179154.3205.35.camel@hughsie-laptop> On Sat, 2007-01-06 at 21:59 +0330, Roozbeh Pournader wrote: > I find it rather fine the way things are working with the Fedora > Desktop team currently. I can easily contribute, things match the > upstream closely, people can be found on #fedora-desktop, etc. Me too. The fedora and redhat guys are great in this respect, I really don't know what all the fuss is about. Richard. From dtimms at iinet.net.au Sun Jan 7 14:59:23 2007 From: dtimms at iinet.net.au (David Timms) Date: Mon, 08 Jan 2007 01:59:23 +1100 Subject: experimental 2.6.19 kernel preview - OK In-Reply-To: <20070107040605.GC1905@redhat.com> References: <1167812088.3567.9.camel@sonlaptop> <20070103173644.GA3862@kerouac> <20070103190743.6bd0fef8@lain.camperquake.de> <20070103191657.GB3862@kerouac> <20070103225824.GA11354@redhat.com> <20070104090244.115940@gmx.net> <20070104172302.GB3129@redhat.com> <20070107040605.GC1905@redhat.com> Message-ID: <45A10ACB.6020907@iinet.net.au> Dave Jones wrote: > On Thu, Jan 04, 2007 at 12:23:02PM -0500, Dave Jones wrote: > > > note that this build doesn't have the fix for the mmap corruption problem > > which got quite a bit of attention last week. I'll get a fixed build > > up there soon, but in the meantime, tread carefully with this one. > > I've been working on a 2.6.19 update for FC6 over the last > few weeks, and it's starting to feel 'almost ready'. > Before I push this out to updates-testing though, I'd rather > have a few people 'kick the tyres' to make sure there's > nothing really silly wrong with these. Booting and running my normal apps shows nothing out of the ordinary that I can see in the first: 01:55:33 up 1:32, 1 user, load average: 0.15, 0.26, 0.55 Linux davidtdesktop 2.6.19-1.2888.fc6 #1 SMP Sat Jan 6 01:05:49 EST 2007 i686 athlon i386 GNU/Linux 3x ide disks + dvd drive. usb mounting normal. nvidia fx5600 using proprietary driver and nvidia-x11-drv-1.0.9746-1 {freshrpms}, that dkms auto recompiled for new kernel during boot {-devel is installed}, and nvidia driver boot operates OK. Apps used: firefox, thunderbird, gnome-terminal, gkrellm, freecell, openoffice calc, nautilus, fslint {to detect and delete empty directories under /home/* - it found about 20,000} cat /proc/cpuinfo processor : 0 vendor_id : AuthenticAMD cpu family : 6 model : 8 model name : AMD Athlon(tm) XP 2600+ stepping : 1 cpu MHz : 2079.648 cache size : 256 KB fdiv_bug : no hlt_bug : no f00f_bug : no coma_bug : no fpu : yes fpu_exception : yes cpuid level : 1 wp : yes flags : fpu vme de pse tsc msr pae mce cx8 apic mtrr pge mca cmov pat pse36 mmx fxsr sse syscall mmxext 3dnowext 3dnow up ts bogomips : 4160.89 DaveT. From vnpenguin at vnoss.org Sun Jan 7 14:53:14 2007 From: vnpenguin at vnoss.org (Vnpenguin) Date: Sun, 7 Jan 2007 15:53:14 +0100 Subject: Fedora 7 (Everything installs) In-Reply-To: <45A0FC62.20109@fedoraproject.org> References: <20070104195032.GE4693@nostromo.devel.redhat.com> <7873-SnapperMsg827D11E1C1C47D24@70.6.76.140> <1168036027.26602.4.camel@localhost.localdomain> <1168037038.3358.16.camel@mentorng.gurulabs.com> <45A00C66.7070907@redhat.com> <604aa7910701061312n3aaa6454q6cd7325aeeea2c51@mail.gmail.com> <20070107005024.GC20448@dspnet.fr.eu.org> <20070107135355.GA73208@dspnet.fr.eu.org> <45A0FC62.20109@fedoraproject.org> Message-ID: On 1/7/07, Rahul Sundaram wrote: > Olivier Galibert wrote: > > > No it doesn't, sorry. Please re-read what you quoted, and realize > > that I do know about kickstart. AFAIK, you can't give any kickstart > > commands when you're doing a cdrom install using a standard fedora > > iso. > > The whole point of kickstart is to *automate* that steps so you dont > have to do a standard installation or click any buttons. > I use kickstart with "interactive" option. So all selections were defined as defaults. I could "click" without any problem to change any value. -- http://vnoss.org From saikat at cs.cornell.edu Sun Jan 7 15:49:32 2007 From: saikat at cs.cornell.edu (Saikat Guha) Date: Sun, 07 Jan 2007 10:49:32 -0500 Subject: experimental 2.6.19 kernel preview. In-Reply-To: <20070107040605.GC1905@redhat.com> References: <1167812088.3567.9.camel@sonlaptop> <20070103173644.GA3862@kerouac> <20070103190743.6bd0fef8@lain.camperquake.de> <20070103191657.GB3862@kerouac> <20070103225824.GA11354@redhat.com> <20070104090244.115940@gmx.net> <20070104172302.GB3129@redhat.com> <20070107040605.GC1905@redhat.com> Message-ID: <1168184972.3138.12.camel@sioux.systems.cs.cornell.edu> On Sat, 2007-01-06 at 23:06 -0500, Dave Jones wrote: > I've been working on a 2.6.19 update for FC6 over the last > few weeks, and it's starting to feel 'almost ready'. > Before I push this out to updates-testing though, I'd rather > have a few people 'kick the tyres' to make sure there's > nothing really silly wrong with these. kernel-2.6.19-1.2905.fc7.x86_64 on booting always drops me into fsck for a non-root USB disk [0] that is formatted as an ext3 volume and mounted from fstab as ext3. Incidentally, I just noticed that the partition type as reported by fdisk is still W95FAT(LBA). The fsck error is that it cannot find the superblock. Manually giving the alternate block locations doesn't help. dmesg output is lost since the boot process doesn't complete and I am afraid of forcing it through incase it results in any FS corruption on the USB disk (which works on other kernels). The same setup works flawlessly on 2.6.18-1.2849.fc6.x86_64, finds the superblocks and mounts the disk at boot time without reporting any errors. Do let me know if there are any relatively safe things I can do with 2.6.19 that'll help diagnose the problem better. [0] Bus 002 Device 005: ID 1058:0900 Western Digital Technologies, Inc. cheers, -- Saikat -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: signature.asc Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 189 bytes Desc: This is a digitally signed message part URL: From jwboyer at jdub.homelinux.org Sun Jan 7 16:02:09 2007 From: jwboyer at jdub.homelinux.org (Josh Boyer) Date: Sun, 07 Jan 2007 10:02:09 -0600 Subject: experimental 2.6.19 kernel preview. In-Reply-To: <45A0B3B4.20402@gmail.com> References: <1167812088.3567.9.camel@sonlaptop> <20070103173644.GA3862@kerouac> <20070103190743.6bd0fef8@lain.camperquake.de> <20070103191657.GB3862@kerouac> <20070103225824.GA11354@redhat.com> <20070104090244.115940@gmx.net> <20070104172302.GB3129@redhat.com> <20070107040605.GC1905@redhat.com> <45A0B3B4.20402@gmail.com> Message-ID: <1168185729.3159.47.camel@vader.jdub.homelinux.org> On Sun, 2007-01-07 at 09:47 +0100, dragoran wrote: > Dave Jones wrote: > > On Thu, Jan 04, 2007 at 12:23:02PM -0500, Dave Jones wrote: > > > > > note that this build doesn't have the fix for the mmap corruption problem > > > which got quite a bit of attention last week. I'll get a fixed build > > > up there soon, but in the meantime, tread carefully with this one. > > > > I've been working on a 2.6.19 update for FC6 over the last > > few weeks, and it's starting to feel 'almost ready'. > > Before I push this out to updates-testing though, I'd rather > > have a few people 'kick the tyres' to make sure there's > > nothing really silly wrong with these. > > [...] > > > I installed it on my x86_64 box It boots and works fine. > But I found one regression: > lm_sensors stopped working. > sensors just displays "General parse error" (maybe a updated package is > needed) > booting into a 2.6.18 kernel solves the issue (sensors works) > > one more thing (not a regression): > can you enable the ntfs read only driver in the kernel builds? the > patent issues are resolved and there is no need to recompile it every > time the kernel gets updated. Um... This is a FC-6 erratum. Let's not go enabling new stuff in a released version. Rawhide is where this should be enabled first. josh From davej at redhat.com Sun Jan 7 17:37:29 2007 From: davej at redhat.com (Dave Jones) Date: Sun, 7 Jan 2007 12:37:29 -0500 Subject: experimental 2.6.19 kernel preview. In-Reply-To: <1168177144.2972.214.camel@laptopd505.fenrus.org> References: <1167812088.3567.9.camel@sonlaptop> <20070103173644.GA3862@kerouac> <20070103190743.6bd0fef8@lain.camperquake.de> <20070103191657.GB3862@kerouac> <20070103225824.GA11354@redhat.com> <20070104090244.115940@gmx.net> <20070104172302.GB3129@redhat.com> <20070107040605.GC1905@redhat.com> <45A0BBDA.5040009@gmail.com> <1168177144.2972.214.camel@laptopd505.fenrus.org> Message-ID: <20070107173729.GA5870@redhat.com> On Sun, Jan 07, 2007 at 05:38:44AM -0800, Arjan van de Ven wrote: > On Sun, 2007-01-07 at 10:22 +0100, dragoran wrote: > > ok now tested on my core 2 duo laptop (also using x86_64). > > > what does this mean? > > I don't see it with 2.6.18 and I have not seen any problems because of > > it (yet) > > > you need to disable nmi_watchdog (by putting nmi_watchdog=0) > the code is just broken in recent kernels :( > (there's people in my team at Intel working on fixing this) > > Dave: please disable nmi_watchdog by default in FC x86-64 kernels.. at > least until the worst bugs are fixed (but even then it makes little > sense to have it enabled anyway) x86-64 has had it default on for ages though, it's only recently that i386 changed to match. It's odd that it's only now causing problems. Dave -- http://www.codemonkey.org.uk From jkeating at redhat.com Sun Jan 7 17:50:15 2007 From: jkeating at redhat.com (Jesse Keating) Date: Sun, 7 Jan 2007 12:50:15 -0500 Subject: Fedora 7 (Everything installs) In-Reply-To: <20070107135355.GA73208@dspnet.fr.eu.org> References: <20070104195032.GE4693@nostromo.devel.redhat.com> <20070107135355.GA73208@dspnet.fr.eu.org> Message-ID: <200701071250.19274.jkeating@redhat.com> On Sunday 07 January 2007 08:53, Olivier Galibert wrote: > No it doesn't, sorry. ?Please re-read what you quoted, and realize > that I do know about kickstart. ?AFAIK, you can't give any kickstart > commands when you're doing a cdrom install using a standard fedora > iso. You can with a remote kickstart file or a file on a floppy, or (do we support ks on a USB stick yet?) -- Jesse Keating Release Engineer: Fedora -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 189 bytes Desc: not available URL: From joost.soeterbroek at gmail.com Sun Jan 7 17:53:08 2007 From: joost.soeterbroek at gmail.com (Joost Soeterbroek) Date: Sun, 7 Jan 2007 18:53:08 +0100 Subject: anyone using mod_python in rawhide? Message-ID: Hi, Can someone test/verify mod_python to work correctly in rawhide? I am using mod_python for trac package, but this segfaults: [Sun Jan 07 18:41:08 2007] [notice] mod_python: (Re)importing module 'trac.web.modpython_frontend' [Sun Jan 07 18:41:09 2007] [notice] child pid 10217 exit signal Segmentation fault (11) Regards, Joost From seandarcy2 at gmail.com Sun Jan 7 17:55:36 2007 From: seandarcy2 at gmail.com (sean) Date: Sun, 07 Jan 2007 12:55:36 -0500 Subject: rawhide report: 20070107 changes In-Reply-To: <200701071116.l07BGh4X023722@hs20-bc2-6.build.redhat.com> References: <200701071116.l07BGh4X023722@hs20-bc2-6.build.redhat.com> Message-ID: buildsys at redhat.com wrote: > > > > kernel-2.6.19-1.2905.fc7 > ------------------------ > * Sat Jan 06 2007 Dave Jones > - 2.6.20rc3-git4 > Installing: kernel ####################### [ 3/33] /sbin/mkinitrd: line 154: 3532 Segmentation fault $ldso --verify $bin > /dev/null 2>&1 /sbin/mkinitrd: line 154: 3533 Segmentation fault $ldso --verify $bin > /dev/null 2>&1 /sbin/mkinitrd: line 154: 3548 Segmentation fault $ldso --verify $bin > /dev/null 2>&1 .......................... ??? sean From jkeating at redhat.com Sun Jan 7 17:55:03 2007 From: jkeating at redhat.com (Jesse Keating) Date: Sun, 7 Jan 2007 12:55:03 -0500 Subject: Fedora 7 In-Reply-To: <16de708d0701070347gee13d61y9e596e6304b3c9b8@mail.gmail.com> References: <20070104195032.GE4693@nostromo.devel.redhat.com> <16de708d0701070347gee13d61y9e596e6304b3c9b8@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <200701071255.03680.jkeating@redhat.com> On Sunday 07 January 2007 06:47, Arthur Pemberton wrote: > Two things here: > > 1) Is there going to be further effort towards a minimalistic install > as official release option? I seem to here/see people asking for a 1-2 > CD media install option (as in they can safely download only the first > two cd isos and get a Fedora install up) Yes, one, two CDs are the size mark for these spins. Without X we could get really small with the Server spin, but we'll see where we go. > 2) The Desktop Environment catch 22 seems to be continuing: KDE gets > less love since the measurable KDE using community is small, while the > measurable KDE community is small since those who heavily use KDE go > elsewhere to get their KDE fix (Kubuntu, SuSe). And with the recent > bad press, there may be a few who would like another distro to use KDE > on. So how does 'Fedora KDE' vs 'Fedora Desktop' differ from 'Ubuntu' vs 'Kubuntu' ? We don't even force a different project name. > Might also mention (for no particular reason) that I actually like the > fact that the system-config tools are in Gtk and look different from > my desktop (Qt) application > > > - Make LiveCDs as a part of the distribution release process > > Any insight if these LiveCDs will be an adequate replacement for a Knoppix > CD? We hope so. We'd like it to be even better than the Ubuntu live CD. -- Jesse Keating Release Engineer: Fedora -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 189 bytes Desc: not available URL: From chitlesh at fedoraproject.org Sun Jan 7 18:06:34 2007 From: chitlesh at fedoraproject.org (Chitlesh GOORAH) Date: Sun, 7 Jan 2007 19:06:34 +0100 Subject: Fedora 7 In-Reply-To: <16de708d0701070347gee13d61y9e596e6304b3c9b8@mail.gmail.com> References: <20070104195032.GE4693@nostromo.devel.redhat.com> <16de708d0701070347gee13d61y9e596e6304b3c9b8@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <13dbfe4f0701071006r65fbb95fsb01fa83940285812@mail.gmail.com> On 1/7/07, Arthur Pemberton wrote: > > 2) The Desktop Environment catch 22 seems to be continuing: KDE gets > less love since the measurable KDE using community is small, while the > measurable KDE community is small since those who heavily use KDE go > elsewhere to get their KDE fix (Kubuntu, SuSe). And with the recent > bad press, there may be a few who would like another distro to use KDE > on. Hmm I guess you are wrong here knowing the fact there aren't many statistics to prove me wrong, there are a lot of Fedora KDE users around than you can imagine. If there are many leaving fedora kde for something, It might be because fedora doesn't love much kde and work needs to be here! To be honest, as a fedora ambassador, I see 3 of 5 fedora installs are KDE installs. Chitlesh -- http://clunixchit.blogspot.com From arjan at fenrus.demon.nl Sun Jan 7 18:07:41 2007 From: arjan at fenrus.demon.nl (Arjan van de Ven) Date: Sun, 07 Jan 2007 10:07:41 -0800 Subject: experimental 2.6.19 kernel preview. In-Reply-To: <20070107173729.GA5870@redhat.com> References: <1167812088.3567.9.camel@sonlaptop> <20070103173644.GA3862@kerouac> <20070103190743.6bd0fef8@lain.camperquake.de> <20070103191657.GB3862@kerouac> <20070103225824.GA11354@redhat.com> <20070104090244.115940@gmx.net> <20070104172302.GB3129@redhat.com> <20070107040605.GC1905@redhat.com> <45A0BBDA.5040009@gmail.com> <1168177144.2972.214.camel@laptopd505.fenrus.org> <20070107173729.GA5870@redhat.com> Message-ID: <1168193261.2972.337.camel@laptopd505.fenrus.org> On Sun, 2007-01-07 at 12:37 -0500, Dave Jones wrote: > On Sun, Jan 07, 2007 at 05:38:44AM -0800, Arjan van de Ven wrote: > > On Sun, 2007-01-07 at 10:22 +0100, dragoran wrote: > > > ok now tested on my core 2 duo laptop (also using x86_64). > > > > > what does this mean? > > > I don't see it with 2.6.18 and I have not seen any problems because of > > > it (yet) > > > > > you need to disable nmi_watchdog (by putting nmi_watchdog=0) > > the code is just broken in recent kernels :( > > (there's people in my team at Intel working on fixing this) > > > > Dave: please disable nmi_watchdog by default in FC x86-64 kernels.. at > > least until the worst bugs are fixed (but even then it makes little > > sense to have it enabled anyway) > > x86-64 has had it default on for ages though, it's only recently > that i386 changed to match. It's odd that it's only now causing problems. NMI-meets-SMM is a general not fun thing; and even on x86-64 it should be off (see Ingo's posts for this, it's hitting issues there too). Also the NMI watchdog code changed recently to be.. well buggy. (which we're fixing in my team but still as general principle..) From jos at xos.nl Sun Jan 7 18:14:26 2007 From: jos at xos.nl (Jos Vos) Date: Sun, 7 Jan 2007 19:14:26 +0100 Subject: Fedora 7 (Everything installs) In-Reply-To: <200701071250.19274.jkeating@redhat.com>; from jkeating@redhat.com on Sun, Jan 07, 2007 at 12:50:15PM -0500 References: <20070104195032.GE4693@nostromo.devel.redhat.com> <20070107135355.GA73208@dspnet.fr.eu.org> <200701071250.19274.jkeating@redhat.com> Message-ID: <20070107191426.A31193@xos037.xos.nl> On Sun, Jan 07, 2007 at 12:50:15PM -0500, Jesse Keating wrote: > You can with a remote kickstart file or a file on a floppy, or (do we support > ks on a USB stick yet?) I don't know if you support it, but I've already used this with RHEL4 ;-). -- -- Jos Vos -- X/OS Experts in Open Systems BV | Phone: +31 20 6938364 -- Amsterdam, The Netherlands | Fax: +31 20 6948204 From davej at redhat.com Sun Jan 7 18:29:58 2007 From: davej at redhat.com (Dave Jones) Date: Sun, 7 Jan 2007 13:29:58 -0500 Subject: experimental 2.6.19 kernel preview. In-Reply-To: <45A08D2B.3070909@mindspring.com> References: <1167812088.3567.9.camel@sonlaptop> <20070103173644.GA3862@kerouac> <20070103190743.6bd0fef8@lain.camperquake.de> <20070103191657.GB3862@kerouac> <20070103225824.GA11354@redhat.com> <20070104090244.115940@gmx.net> <20070104172302.GB3129@redhat.com> <20070107040605.GC1905@redhat.com> <45A08D2B.3070909@mindspring.com> Message-ID: <20070107182958.GD5870@redhat.com> On Sun, Jan 07, 2007 at 01:03:23AM -0500, Richard Hally wrote: > Dave Jones wrote: > > On Thu, Jan 04, 2007 at 12:23:02PM -0500, Dave Jones wrote: > > > the error is: > "/bin/nash: error while loading shared libraries: libm.so.6: cannot > open shared object file: No such file or directory. > Kernel panic - not syncing: Attempted to kill init!" > > none of the other 2.6.19 kernels from rawhide will boot either. Looks like a mkinitrd problem. Dave -- http://www.codemonkey.org.uk From davej at redhat.com Sun Jan 7 18:32:38 2007 From: davej at redhat.com (Dave Jones) Date: Sun, 7 Jan 2007 13:32:38 -0500 Subject: experimental 2.6.19 kernel preview. In-Reply-To: <1168193261.2972.337.camel@laptopd505.fenrus.org> References: <20070103190743.6bd0fef8@lain.camperquake.de> <20070103191657.GB3862@kerouac> <20070103225824.GA11354@redhat.com> <20070104090244.115940@gmx.net> <20070104172302.GB3129@redhat.com> <20070107040605.GC1905@redhat.com> <45A0BBDA.5040009@gmail.com> <1168177144.2972.214.camel@laptopd505.fenrus.org> <20070107173729.GA5870@redhat.com> <1168193261.2972.337.camel@laptopd505.fenrus.org> Message-ID: <20070107183238.GE5870@redhat.com> On Sun, Jan 07, 2007 at 10:07:41AM -0800, Arjan van de Ven wrote: > On Sun, 2007-01-07 at 12:37 -0500, Dave Jones wrote: > > On Sun, Jan 07, 2007 at 05:38:44AM -0800, Arjan van de Ven wrote: > > > On Sun, 2007-01-07 at 10:22 +0100, dragoran wrote: > > > > ok now tested on my core 2 duo laptop (also using x86_64). > > > > > > > what does this mean? > > > > I don't see it with 2.6.18 and I have not seen any problems because of > > > > it (yet) > > > > > > > you need to disable nmi_watchdog (by putting nmi_watchdog=0) > > > the code is just broken in recent kernels :( > > > (there's people in my team at Intel working on fixing this) > > > > > > Dave: please disable nmi_watchdog by default in FC x86-64 kernels.. at > > > least until the worst bugs are fixed (but even then it makes little > > > sense to have it enabled anyway) > > > > x86-64 has had it default on for ages though, it's only recently > > that i386 changed to match. It's odd that it's only now causing problems. > > NMI-meets-SMM is a general not fun thing; and even on x86-64 it should > be off (see Ingo's posts for this, it's hitting issues there too). > Also the NMI watchdog code changed recently to be.. well buggy. > (which we're fixing in my team but still as general principle..) I'm about to disappear for the afternoon. If I get back and there's a patch in my inbox it'd be much appreciated (hint, hint ;-) Dave -- http://www.codemonkey.org.uk From davej at redhat.com Sun Jan 7 18:35:17 2007 From: davej at redhat.com (Dave Jones) Date: Sun, 7 Jan 2007 13:35:17 -0500 Subject: experimental 2.6.19 kernel preview. In-Reply-To: <1168184972.3138.12.camel@sioux.systems.cs.cornell.edu> References: <1167812088.3567.9.camel@sonlaptop> <20070103173644.GA3862@kerouac> <20070103190743.6bd0fef8@lain.camperquake.de> <20070103191657.GB3862@kerouac> <20070103225824.GA11354@redhat.com> <20070104090244.115940@gmx.net> <20070104172302.GB3129@redhat.com> <20070107040605.GC1905@redhat.com> <1168184972.3138.12.camel@sioux.systems.cs.cornell.edu> Message-ID: <20070107183517.GF5870@redhat.com> On Sun, Jan 07, 2007 at 10:49:32AM -0500, Saikat Guha wrote: > On Sat, 2007-01-06 at 23:06 -0500, Dave Jones wrote: > > I've been working on a 2.6.19 update for FC6 over the last > > few weeks, and it's starting to feel 'almost ready'. > > Before I push this out to updates-testing though, I'd rather > > have a few people 'kick the tyres' to make sure there's > > nothing really silly wrong with these. > > kernel-2.6.19-1.2905.fc7.x86_64 on booting always drops me into fsck for > a non-root USB disk [0] that is formatted as an ext3 volume and mounted > from fstab as ext3. Incidentally, I just noticed that the partition type > as reported by fdisk is still W95FAT(LBA). The fsck error is that it > cannot find the superblock. Manually giving the alternate block > locations doesn't help. dmesg output is lost since the boot process > doesn't complete and I am afraid of forcing it through incase it results > in any FS corruption on the USB disk (which works on other kernels). > > The same setup works flawlessly on 2.6.18-1.2849.fc6.x86_64, finds the > superblocks and mounts the disk at boot time without reporting any > errors. > > Do let me know if there are any relatively safe things I can do with > 2.6.19 that'll help diagnose the problem better. > > [0] Bus 002 Device 005: ID 1058:0900 Western Digital Technologies, Inc. Hmm, odd. Pete, any ideas? wait, this is an fc7 kernel (which is really 2.6.20rc3). This should have been in another thread. Dave -- http://www.codemonkey.org.uk From jspaleta at gmail.com Sun Jan 7 19:14:08 2007 From: jspaleta at gmail.com (Jeff Spaleta) Date: Sun, 7 Jan 2007 10:14:08 -0900 Subject: Fedora 7 (Everything installs) In-Reply-To: <200701071250.19274.jkeating@redhat.com> References: <20070104195032.GE4693@nostromo.devel.redhat.com> <20070107135355.GA73208@dspnet.fr.eu.org> <200701071250.19274.jkeating@redhat.com> Message-ID: <604aa7910701071114v405abbd5rbe6957f916302d4c@mail.gmail.com> On 1/7/07, Jesse Keating wrote: > You can with a remote kickstart file or a file on a floppy, or (do we support > ks on a USB stick yet?) computers still come with floppy drives? -jef From jon.nettleton at gmail.com Sun Jan 7 19:50:10 2007 From: jon.nettleton at gmail.com (Jon Nettleton) Date: Sun, 07 Jan 2007 14:50:10 -0500 Subject: experimental 2.6.19 kernel preview. In-Reply-To: <20070107040605.GC1905@redhat.com> References: <1167812088.3567.9.camel@sonlaptop> <20070103173644.GA3862@kerouac> <20070103190743.6bd0fef8@lain.camperquake.de> <20070103191657.GB3862@kerouac> <20070103225824.GA11354@redhat.com> <20070104090244.115940@gmx.net> <20070104172302.GB3129@redhat.com> <20070107040605.GC1905@redhat.com> Message-ID: <1168199410.2660.2.camel@averatec> On Sat, 2007-01-06 at 23:06 -0500, Dave Jones wrote: > On Thu, Jan 04, 2007 at 12:23:02PM -0500, Dave Jones wrote: > > > note that this build doesn't have the fix for the mmap corruption problem > > which got quite a bit of attention last week. I'll get a fixed build > > up there soon, but in the meantime, tread carefully with this one. > > I've been working on a 2.6.19 update for FC6 over the last > few weeks, and it's starting to feel 'almost ready'. > Before I push this out to updates-testing though, I'd rather > have a few people 'kick the tyres' to make sure there's > nothing really silly wrong with these. > > There are still 1-2 bits that need some more tweaking/fixing that I > already know about, but I'm blocking on other people to get those fixed. > > You can find them at http://people.redhat.com/davej/kernels/Fedora/FC6/ > > Notable points: > > - The big difference here vs the 2.6.19 that briefly showed up > in rawhide is that this kernel sticks with the older IDE code > (so you won't get a nasty surprise when your /dev/hda becomes sda etc). > I just don't feel comfortable pushing that as an update without > worrying about regressions. > > - Another notable change in this update: > The addition of -debug kernels. All the slowdowns and nasty dmesg-filling > debug output you've come to expect in a rawhide kernel, but in FC6! > Well, hopefully not too many of the nasty messages, but this is the > same as the other FC6 kernels, but with lockdep, slab debug etc turned on > which should prove to be useful for tracking down some of the nastier > bugs we've had in recent times. The slow-down from these kernels > isn't really *that* bad on most workloads, I tend to run with these turned > on all the time, and don't notice the difference (but Santa sometimes brings > me shinier computers than others so this may not be universally true). > > - 2.6.19-1.2888 and above are based on 2.6.19.2rc1 so have the fix for > the nasty data corruption bug that turned up in some workloads. > > So, it's there, have it at, beat it up etc. It *should* be pretty solid, > > All being well, the current plan is to get a slightly improved version > of this into updates-testing on Wednesday. I'll do an FC5 version > on the flight to LCA and will get that built and pushed to fc5-updates-testing > as soon as I get network connectivity in the land of wallabies, cork hats > and `roos. > I am now having the same problems on my laptop that I experience when using the netdev kernels. My prism54 wireless card won't get a dhcp address using NetworkManager. If I manually ifup the wireless interface it does work properly. How would you like bug reports for this kernel put into bugzilla? Jon From vnpenguin at vnoss.org Sun Jan 7 19:50:47 2007 From: vnpenguin at vnoss.org (Vnpenguin) Date: Sun, 7 Jan 2007 20:50:47 +0100 Subject: Fedora 7 (Everything installs) In-Reply-To: <604aa7910701071114v405abbd5rbe6957f916302d4c@mail.gmail.com> References: <20070104195032.GE4693@nostromo.devel.redhat.com> <20070107135355.GA73208@dspnet.fr.eu.org> <200701071250.19274.jkeating@redhat.com> <604aa7910701071114v405abbd5rbe6957f916302d4c@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: On 1/7/07, Jeff Spaleta wrote: > On 1/7/07, Jesse Keating wrote: > > You can with a remote kickstart file or a file on a floppy, or (do we support > > ks on a USB stick yet?) > > computers still come with floppy drives? > Yeah, my box (which runs FC1..FC6) has one and it works well :) Sorry for OT, -- http://vnoss.org From darrellpf at gmail.com Sun Jan 7 19:59:55 2007 From: darrellpf at gmail.com (darrell pfeifer) Date: Sun, 7 Jan 2007 11:59:55 -0800 Subject: experimental 2.6.19 kernel preview. In-Reply-To: <1168199410.2660.2.camel@averatec> References: <1167812088.3567.9.camel@sonlaptop> <20070103173644.GA3862@kerouac> <20070103190743.6bd0fef8@lain.camperquake.de> <20070103191657.GB3862@kerouac> <20070103225824.GA11354@redhat.com> <20070104090244.115940@gmx.net> <20070104172302.GB3129@redhat.com> <20070107040605.GC1905@redhat.com> <1168199410.2660.2.camel@averatec> Message-ID: On 1/7/07, Jon Nettleton wrote: > On Sat, 2007-01-06 at 23:06 -0500, Dave Jones wrote: > > On Thu, Jan 04, 2007 at 12:23:02PM -0500, Dave Jones wrote: > > > > > note that this build doesn't have the fix for the mmap corruption problem > > > which got quite a bit of attention last week. I'll get a fixed build > > > up there soon, but in the meantime, tread carefully with this one. > > > > I've been working on a 2.6.19 update for FC6 over the last > > few weeks, and it's starting to feel 'almost ready'. > > Before I push this out to updates-testing though, I'd rather > > have a few people 'kick the tyres' to make sure there's > > nothing really silly wrong with these. > > > > There are still 1-2 bits that need some more tweaking/fixing that I > > already know about, but I'm blocking on other people to get those fixed. > > > > You can find them at http://people.redhat.com/davej/kernels/Fedora/FC6/ > > > > Notable points: > > > > - The big difference here vs the 2.6.19 that briefly showed up > > in rawhide is that this kernel sticks with the older IDE code > > (so you won't get a nasty surprise when your /dev/hda becomes sda etc). > > I just don't feel comfortable pushing that as an update without > > worrying about regressions. > > > > - Another notable change in this update: > > The addition of -debug kernels. All the slowdowns and nasty dmesg-filling > > debug output you've come to expect in a rawhide kernel, but in FC6! > > Well, hopefully not too many of the nasty messages, but this is the > > same as the other FC6 kernels, but with lockdep, slab debug etc turned on > > which should prove to be useful for tracking down some of the nastier > > bugs we've had in recent times. The slow-down from these kernels > > isn't really *that* bad on most workloads, I tend to run with these turned > > on all the time, and don't notice the difference (but Santa sometimes brings > > me shinier computers than others so this may not be universally true). > > > > - 2.6.19-1.2888 and above are based on 2.6.19.2rc1 so have the fix for > > the nasty data corruption bug that turned up in some workloads. > > > > So, it's there, have it at, beat it up etc. It *should* be pretty solid, > > > > All being well, the current plan is to get a slightly improved version > > of this into updates-testing on Wednesday. I'll do an FC5 version > > on the flight to LCA and will get that built and pushed to fc5-updates-testing > > as soon as I get network connectivity in the land of wallabies, cork hats > > and `roos. > > > > I am now having the same problems on my laptop that I experience when > using the netdev kernels. My prism54 wireless card won't get a dhcp > address using NetworkManager. If I manually ifup the wireless interface > it does work properly. How would you like bug reports for this kernel > put into bugzilla? > > Jon > This might be more of a NetworkManager issue or timing problem. I have the same problem with the current rawhide on a couple of different laptops that are using the ipw2x00 drivers. darrell From pemboa at gmail.com Sun Jan 7 20:04:48 2007 From: pemboa at gmail.com (Arthur Pemberton) Date: Mon, 8 Jan 2007 14:04:48 +1800 Subject: Fedora 7 In-Reply-To: <45A0EDB6.9050802@gmail.com> References: <20070104195032.GE4693@nostromo.devel.redhat.com> <16de708d0701070410k23713cb3l1ff0f5279dcbe55c@mail.gmail.com> <45A0EDB6.9050802@gmail.com> Message-ID: <16de708d0701071204x3b8cc69dk550ec4fff54f6037@mail.gmail.com> On 1/8/07, dragoran wrote: > Arthur Pemberton wrote: > > On 1/4/07, Bill Nottingham wrote: > >> And, what would a release be without features. We've identified > >> 28 features that we'd like to include in the release, available > >> at http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Releases/7/Features: > > > > Two more things: > > > > 1) Is there any plan to have some sort of Fedora recommends hardware > > of manufacturer X,Y,Z? I'm not thinking of hardware certification, > > just recommendations. I think this would be very beneficial. > > > we should create some sort of hw db where people can check which hw is > supported by fedora and which not That's great. I don't even ask for the word 'support' to be used, I would be happy with: * works with clean fedora (no binary blob drivers or firmware required) * works with non fedora worthy firmware * works in Linux, but not Fedora ready (or clean enough) * no idea * doesn't work > > 2) I haven't heard much of Python 2.5 for Fedora 7. Comments would be > > appreciated. > > > its in rawhide so it should be in F7 > -- Fedora Core 6 and proud From smooge at gmail.com Sun Jan 7 20:05:16 2007 From: smooge at gmail.com (Stephen John Smoogen) Date: Sun, 7 Jan 2007 13:05:16 -0700 Subject: Fedora 7 (Everything installs) In-Reply-To: <20070106022204.GJ5592@redhat.com> References: <20070104195032.GE4693@nostromo.devel.redhat.com> <7873-SnapperMsg827D11E1C1C47D24@70.6.76.140> <1168036027.26602.4.camel@localhost.localdomain> <1168037038.3358.16.camel@mentorng.gurulabs.com> <20070106022204.GJ5592@redhat.com> Message-ID: <80d7e4090701071205s4d4a7202x7abe4fbdfde6e16b@mail.gmail.com> On 1/5/07, Dave Jones wrote: > On Fri, Jan 05, 2007 at 03:43:58PM -0700, Dax Kelson wrote: > > On Fri, 2007-01-05 at 17:27 -0500, Paul W. Frields wrote: > > > I don't think merging the repos makes any of > > > the existing reasons for doing away with this selection any less sound. > > > > Of course it does. The major argument bandied about for the removal of > > 'Everything' was the creation of extras. > > > > It is useful for a variety of situations. > > Examples? > What problem are you actually trying to solve? > > > Many, many, people have asked for it back. > > That doesn't mean it's the right thing to do. > Many people have asked for all sorts of misguided features. > Thankfully most of the time, sanity has prevailed. > Yes, one of the most requested items we got after 5.0 was "Could you make it so passwords were not needed for root default?" this later morphed into "Please make it so that anyone can run anything by default" ... and the routine that someone wanted us to have so that if you pinged a port it would reset all the passwords on the system. "Great for our ISP to manage boxes when the owner has locked himself out." -- Stephen J Smoogen. -- CSIRT/Linux System Administrator How far that little candle throws his beams! So shines a good deed in a naughty world. = Shakespeare. "The Merchant of Venice" From davej at redhat.com Sun Jan 7 20:10:03 2007 From: davej at redhat.com (Dave Jones) Date: Sun, 7 Jan 2007 15:10:03 -0500 Subject: experimental 2.6.19 kernel preview. In-Reply-To: <1168199410.2660.2.camel@averatec> References: <1167812088.3567.9.camel@sonlaptop> <20070103173644.GA3862@kerouac> <20070103190743.6bd0fef8@lain.camperquake.de> <20070103191657.GB3862@kerouac> <20070103225824.GA11354@redhat.com> <20070104090244.115940@gmx.net> <20070104172302.GB3129@redhat.com> <20070107040605.GC1905@redhat.com> <1168199410.2660.2.camel@averatec> Message-ID: <20070107201003.GB22193@redhat.com> On Sun, Jan 07, 2007 at 02:50:10PM -0500, Jon Nettleton wrote: > I am now having the same problems on my laptop that I experience when > using the netdev kernels. My prism54 wireless card won't get a dhcp > address using NetworkManager. If I manually ifup the wireless interface > it does work properly. How would you like bug reports for this kernel > put into bugzilla? Yes, please do file bugs about this, and other issues found in this kernel. Dave -- http://www.codemonkey.org.uk From jkeating at redhat.com Sun Jan 7 20:11:47 2007 From: jkeating at redhat.com (Jesse Keating) Date: Sun, 7 Jan 2007 15:11:47 -0500 Subject: Fedora 7 (Everything installs) In-Reply-To: <604aa7910701071114v405abbd5rbe6957f916302d4c@mail.gmail.com> References: <20070104195032.GE4693@nostromo.devel.redhat.com> <200701071250.19274.jkeating@redhat.com> <604aa7910701071114v405abbd5rbe6957f916302d4c@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <200701071511.47529.jkeating@redhat.com> On Sunday 07 January 2007 14:14, Jeff Spaleta wrote: > On 1/7/07, Jesse Keating wrote: > > You can with a remote kickstart file or a file on a floppy, or (do we > > support ks on a USB stick yet?) > > computers still come with floppy drives? Some do, there are USB floppies too. I wouldn't be opposed to having a set of kickstart config files on the isos too, interactive of course, but I'll wait for those to be submitted. -- Jesse Keating Release Engineer: Fedora -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 189 bytes Desc: not available URL: From dennis at ausil.us Sun Jan 7 20:24:59 2007 From: dennis at ausil.us (Dennis Gilmore) Date: Sun, 7 Jan 2007 14:24:59 -0600 Subject: Fedora 7 (Everything installs) In-Reply-To: <200701071511.47529.jkeating@redhat.com> References: <20070104195032.GE4693@nostromo.devel.redhat.com> <604aa7910701071114v405abbd5rbe6957f916302d4c@mail.gmail.com> <200701071511.47529.jkeating@redhat.com> Message-ID: <200701071424.59753.dennis@ausil.us> Once upon a time Sunday 07 January 2007 2:11 pm, Jesse Keating wrote: > On Sunday 07 January 2007 14:14, Jeff Spaleta wrote: > > On 1/7/07, Jesse Keating wrote: > > > You can with a remote kickstart file or a file on a floppy, or (do we > > > support ks on a USB stick yet?) > > > > computers still come with floppy drives? > > Some do, there are USB floppies too. > > I wouldn't be opposed to having a set of kickstart config files on the isos > too, interactive of course, but I'll wait for those to be submitted. What would be nice for kickstart files on iso's namely DVD iso is pre-defined installs for postfix mail server, sendmail mail server, mysql database server , postgresql server etc. Ones that install a predefined set of packages. but have the user set partitioning, root password etc. From pemboa at gmail.com Sun Jan 7 20:01:38 2007 From: pemboa at gmail.com (Arthur Pemberton) Date: Mon, 8 Jan 2007 14:01:38 +1800 Subject: Fedora 7 In-Reply-To: <200701071255.03680.jkeating@redhat.com> References: <20070104195032.GE4693@nostromo.devel.redhat.com> <16de708d0701070347gee13d61y9e596e6304b3c9b8@mail.gmail.com> <200701071255.03680.jkeating@redhat.com> Message-ID: <16de708d0701071201g391944a5q28bbbe9d5e286aeb@mail.gmail.com> On 1/8/07, Jesse Keating wrote: > On Sunday 07 January 2007 06:47, Arthur Pemberton wrote: > > Two things here: > > > > 1) Is there going to be further effort towards a minimalistic install > > as official release option? I seem to here/see people asking for a 1-2 > > CD media install option (as in they can safely download only the first > > two cd isos and get a Fedora install up) > > Yes, one, two CDs are the size mark for these spins. Without X we could get > really small with the Server spin, but we'll see where we go. For a server cd, I don't mind doing yum install xorg and xfce is necessary post install, however. That brings up the other point where I notice that a lot of usefule/semi useful commands have no man pages. (I guess I should take the initiative and at least writeup a script to search these apps up) one example would be lshal (recently found out about it) [ snip ] > > > - Make LiveCDs as a part of the distribution release process > > > > Any insight if these LiveCDs will be an adequate replacement for a Knoppix > > CD? > > We hope so. We'd like it to be even better than the Ubuntu live CD. > The only live CD I'm familiar with is Knoppix, but I'll assume from your comment that the Ubuntu live CD is as good or better. > -- > Jesse Keating > Release Engineer: Fedora > > > -- > fedora-devel-list mailing list > fedora-devel-list at redhat.com > https://www.redhat.com/mailman/listinfo/fedora-devel-list > > > -- Fedora Core 6 and proud From jon.nettleton at gmail.com Sun Jan 7 20:28:41 2007 From: jon.nettleton at gmail.com (Jon Nettleton) Date: Sun, 07 Jan 2007 15:28:41 -0500 Subject: experimental 2.6.19 kernel preview. In-Reply-To: <20070107201003.GB22193@redhat.com> References: <1167812088.3567.9.camel@sonlaptop> <20070103173644.GA3862@kerouac> <20070103190743.6bd0fef8@lain.camperquake.de> <20070103191657.GB3862@kerouac> <20070103225824.GA11354@redhat.com> <20070104090244.115940@gmx.net> <20070104172302.GB3129@redhat.com> <20070107040605.GC1905@redhat.com> <1168199410.2660.2.camel@averatec> <20070107201003.GB22193@redhat.com> Message-ID: <1168201722.2489.1.camel@averatec> On Sun, 2007-01-07 at 15:10 -0500, Dave Jones wrote: > On Sun, Jan 07, 2007 at 02:50:10PM -0500, Jon Nettleton wrote: > > > I am now having the same problems on my laptop that I experience when > > using the netdev kernels. My prism54 wireless card won't get a dhcp > > address using NetworkManager. If I manually ifup the wireless interface > > it does work properly. How would you like bug reports for this kernel > > put into bugzilla? > > Yes, please do file bugs about this, and other issues found in this kernel. > > Dave Do you want me to set the bug assigned to you? From pemboa at gmail.com Sun Jan 7 20:09:23 2007 From: pemboa at gmail.com (Arthur Pemberton) Date: Mon, 8 Jan 2007 14:09:23 +1800 Subject: Fedora 7 In-Reply-To: <200701071255.03680.jkeating@redhat.com> References: <20070104195032.GE4693@nostromo.devel.redhat.com> <16de708d0701070347gee13d61y9e596e6304b3c9b8@mail.gmail.com> <200701071255.03680.jkeating@redhat.com> Message-ID: <16de708d0701071209x4c9f3286s59599590ed2f7ee1@mail.gmail.com> On 1/8/07, Jesse Keating wrote: > On Sunday 07 January 2007 06:47, Arthur Pemberton wrote: [ snip ] > > 2) The Desktop Environment catch 22 seems to be continuing: KDE gets > > less love since the measurable KDE using community is small, while the > > measurable KDE community is small since those who heavily use KDE go > > elsewhere to get their KDE fix (Kubuntu, SuSe). And with the recent > > bad press, there may be a few who would like another distro to use KDE > > on. > > So how does 'Fedora KDE' vs 'Fedora Desktop' differ from 'Ubuntu' > vs 'Kubuntu' ? We don't even force a different project name. > I don't know... I am/was trying to consider things from those who see this as a problem. Write now the lack of KDE in the name isn't preventing me from using Fedora. But from reading around the internet, it seems a non-ignorable percentage simply do not consider Fedora when looking for a distro to use KDE on - while it is obviously not really a popularity content, more users don't add that much more load to a project (I would think) while with more users, more helpers should come - there by spreading the work and love around. -- Fedora Core 6 and proud From jkeating at redhat.com Sun Jan 7 20:32:34 2007 From: jkeating at redhat.com (Jesse Keating) Date: Sun, 7 Jan 2007 15:32:34 -0500 Subject: Fedora 7 (Everything installs) In-Reply-To: <200701071424.59753.dennis@ausil.us> References: <20070104195032.GE4693@nostromo.devel.redhat.com> <200701071511.47529.jkeating@redhat.com> <200701071424.59753.dennis@ausil.us> Message-ID: <200701071532.34909.jkeating@redhat.com> On Sunday 07 January 2007 15:24, Dennis Gilmore wrote: > What would be nice for kickstart files on iso's namely DVD iso ?is > pre-defined installs ?for ?postfix mail server, sendmail mail server, mysql > database server , postgresql server ? etc. ? ?Ones that install a > predefined set of packages. but have the user set partitioning, root > password etc. Well, one could have different comps files used based upon which option you select, so if you select a mailserver in anaconda, it would use the comps file for that which has the right stuff mandatory/default. Something to think about for say F8. -- Jesse Keating Release Engineer: Fedora -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 189 bytes Desc: not available URL: From jkeating at redhat.com Sun Jan 7 20:33:22 2007 From: jkeating at redhat.com (Jesse Keating) Date: Sun, 7 Jan 2007 15:33:22 -0500 Subject: Fedora 7 In-Reply-To: <16de708d0701071201g391944a5q28bbbe9d5e286aeb@mail.gmail.com> References: <20070104195032.GE4693@nostromo.devel.redhat.com> <200701071255.03680.jkeating@redhat.com> <16de708d0701071201g391944a5q28bbbe9d5e286aeb@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <200701071533.23019.jkeating@redhat.com> On Sunday 07 January 2007 15:01, Arthur Pemberton wrote: > For a server cd, I don't mind doing yum install xorg and xfce is > necessary post install, however. That brings up the other point where > I notice that a lot of usefule/semi useful commands have no man pages. > (I guess I should take the initiative and at least writeup a script to > search these apps up) one example would be lshal (recently found out > about it) Well, I think we should still include the xorg libs, so that one could run the gui system config tools over ssh. -- Jesse Keating Release Engineer: Fedora -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 189 bytes Desc: not available URL: From smooge at gmail.com Sun Jan 7 20:11:37 2007 From: smooge at gmail.com (Stephen John Smoogen) Date: Sun, 7 Jan 2007 13:11:37 -0700 Subject: Fedora 7 (Everything installs) In-Reply-To: <20070106022634.GA15385@dspnet.fr.eu.org> References: <20070104195032.GE4693@nostromo.devel.redhat.com> <7873-SnapperMsg827D11E1C1C47D24@70.6.76.140> <1168036027.26602.4.camel@localhost.localdomain> <1168037038.3358.16.camel@mentorng.gurulabs.com> <20070106022204.GJ5592@redhat.com> <20070106022634.GA15385@dspnet.fr.eu.org> Message-ID: <80d7e4090701071211i5bb6c79av375a91362f95b64b@mail.gmail.com> On 1/5/07, Olivier Galibert wrote: > On Fri, Jan 05, 2007 at 09:22:04PM -0500, Dave Jones wrote: > > core+extras today is around 5000 packages iirc. This is only going > > to get bigger. How can possibly make sense to install every package > > known to man? > > What makes you think the installation is pointed at a full core+extras > mirror instead of a selected subset? Not everybody is stupid you > know. > To be honest, because people (myself included) are morons. We are sure that we are being gipped by the packagers and unless we have it ALL we may be missing some secret tool, item that they are keeping away from us. [God the number of bugs we used to get on "I clicked on Everything and found out that it didnt install all the files because of my language choice. This is a stop critical bug!"] 80% of the people who opened tickets during 7 did everything installs when asked. The problems they had were mostly due to having everything installed (running out disk, wondering why tux was conflicting with httpd (or something like that). -- Stephen J Smoogen. -- CSIRT/Linux System Administrator How far that little candle throws his beams! So shines a good deed in a naughty world. = Shakespeare. "The Merchant of Venice" From vonbrand at inf.utfsm.cl Sun Jan 7 19:57:38 2007 From: vonbrand at inf.utfsm.cl (Horst H. von Brand) Date: Sun, 07 Jan 2007 16:57:38 -0300 Subject: rawhide report: 20070107 changes In-Reply-To: Your message of "Sun, 07 Jan 2007 12:55:36 CDT." Message-ID: <200701071957.l07JvcDR010060@laptop13.inf.utfsm.cl> sean wrote: > buildsys at redhat.com wrote: > > kernel-2.6.19-1.2905.fc7 > > ------------------------ > > * Sat Jan 06 2007 Dave Jones > > - 2.6.20rc3-git4 > Installing: kernel ####################### [ 3/33] > /sbin/mkinitrd: line 154: 3532 Segmentation fault $ldso --verify > $bin > /dev/null 2>&1 > /sbin/mkinitrd: line 154: 3533 Segmentation fault $ldso --verify > $bin > /dev/null 2>&1 > /sbin/mkinitrd: line 154: 3548 Segmentation fault $ldso --verify > $bin > /dev/null 2>&1 > .......................... > > ??? What mkinitrd is this? What kind of machine? -- Dr. Horst H. von Brand User #22616 counter.li.org Departamento de Informatica Fono: +56 32 2654431 Universidad Tecnica Federico Santa Maria +56 32 2654239 Casilla 110-V, Valparaiso, Chile Fax: +56 32 2797513 From jspaleta at gmail.com Sun Jan 7 21:11:35 2007 From: jspaleta at gmail.com (Jeff Spaleta) Date: Sun, 7 Jan 2007 12:11:35 -0900 Subject: Fedora 7 (Everything installs) In-Reply-To: <200701071424.59753.dennis@ausil.us> References: <20070104195032.GE4693@nostromo.devel.redhat.com> <604aa7910701071114v405abbd5rbe6957f916302d4c@mail.gmail.com> <200701071511.47529.jkeating@redhat.com> <200701071424.59753.dennis@ausil.us> Message-ID: <604aa7910701071311o713f39b6t88054fd069397639@mail.gmail.com> On 1/7/07, Dennis Gilmore wrote: > What would be nice for kickstart files on iso's namely DVD iso is pre-defined > installs for postfix mail server, sendmail mail server, mysql database > server , postgresql server etc. Ones that install a predefined set of > packages. but have the user set partitioning, root password etc. I think its time to start compiling a selection of contributed kickstart files, so they can be gone over and culled into a group that can be considered for inclusion into iso images or prettied up for consumption from the wiki as standard reference kickstart scenarios. Who has semi-useful kickstart files they can drop into the wiki with a short description of the situation you use it for? -jef From sundaram at fedoraproject.org Sun Jan 7 21:22:01 2007 From: sundaram at fedoraproject.org (Rahul Sundaram) Date: Mon, 08 Jan 2007 02:52:01 +0530 Subject: Fedora 7 In-Reply-To: <1168112280.3368.51.camel@hook.fubar.dk> References: <20070104195032.GE4693@nostromo.devel.redhat.com> <200701041613.50625.jkeating@redhat.com> <459D702A.8050705@fedoraproject.org> <200701041653.40217.jkeating@redhat.com> <1167952443.2847.8.camel@zelda.fubar.dk> <459F5895.7090907@redhat.com> <53B4B633-5F87-4559-BF07-AEBFB18E7EC3@fubar.dk> <459FD726.9000604@fedoraproject.org> <970B113B-CA12-4835-A2AD-E485E3EACC00@fubar.dk> <459FE09C.5010103@fedoraproject.org> <1168106758.3522.13.camel@hook.fubar.dk> <459FE81F.9040404@fedoraproject.org> <1168108933.3368.12.camel@hook.fubar.dk> <1168111524.13712.28.camel@rousalka.dyndns.org> <1168112280.3368.51.camel@hook.fubar.dk> Message-ID: <45A16479.8090104@fedoraproject.org> David Zeuthen wrote: > That should probably be fixed, sure. There used to be a nice page on > fedora.redhat.com with this including pointers to upstream lists. Why > the Community Relations (Warren? Rahul?) people involved in Fedora > haven't fixed that I don't know; perhaps they expected the software > developers in the RH desktop team to do that? Perhaps there's some > misunderstanding about responsibilities that needs to be sorted out. > I'll ask my manager to sort this out fedora.redhat.com is a deprecated website and there is loads of outdated information in there. If you can just get all the content needed on fedoraproject.org/wiki, I am happy with that. We would need some more basic information on who the team is. some contact information like #fedora-desktop on gimpnet which I honestly only vaguely knew ever existed and any plans and schedules of importance. That should cover the basic needs. Rahul From davej at redhat.com Sun Jan 7 22:35:45 2007 From: davej at redhat.com (Dave Jones) Date: Sun, 7 Jan 2007 17:35:45 -0500 Subject: experimental 2.6.19 kernel preview. In-Reply-To: <1168201722.2489.1.camel@averatec> References: <20070103173644.GA3862@kerouac> <20070103190743.6bd0fef8@lain.camperquake.de> <20070103191657.GB3862@kerouac> <20070103225824.GA11354@redhat.com> <20070104090244.115940@gmx.net> <20070104172302.GB3129@redhat.com> <20070107040605.GC1905@redhat.com> <1168199410.2660.2.camel@averatec> <20070107201003.GB22193@redhat.com> <1168201722.2489.1.camel@averatec> Message-ID: <20070107223545.GB25907@redhat.com> On Sun, Jan 07, 2007 at 03:28:41PM -0500, Jon Nettleton wrote: > On Sun, 2007-01-07 at 15:10 -0500, Dave Jones wrote: > > On Sun, Jan 07, 2007 at 02:50:10PM -0500, Jon Nettleton wrote: > > > > > I am now having the same problems on my laptop that I experience when > > > using the netdev kernels. My prism54 wireless card won't get a dhcp > > > address using NetworkManager. If I manually ifup the wireless interface > > > it does work properly. How would you like bug reports for this kernel > > > put into bugzilla? > > > > Yes, please do file bugs about this, and other issues found in this kernel. > > > > Dave > > Do you want me to set the bug assigned to you? Assign to linville at redhat.com , and add me to Cc. Dave -- http://www.codemonkey.org.uk From vonbrand at inf.utfsm.cl Sun Jan 7 23:35:17 2007 From: vonbrand at inf.utfsm.cl (Horst H. von Brand) Date: Sun, 07 Jan 2007 20:35:17 -0300 Subject: Fedora 7 In-Reply-To: Your message of "Mon, 08 Jan 2007 14:04:48 +1800." <16de708d0701071204x3b8cc69dk550ec4fff54f6037@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <200701072335.l07NZHY5017122@laptop13.inf.utfsm.cl> Arthur Pemberton wrote: > On 1/8/07, dragoran wrote: > > Arthur Pemberton wrote: > > > On 1/4/07, Bill Nottingham wrote: > > >> And, what would a release be without features. We've identified > > >> 28 features that we'd like to include in the release, available > > >> at http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Releases/7/Features: > > > > > > Two more things: > > > > > > 1) Is there any plan to have some sort of Fedora recommends hardware > > > of manufacturer X,Y,Z? I'm not thinking of hardware certification, > > > just recommendations. I think this would be very beneficial. > > > > > we should create some sort of hw db where people can check which hw is > > supported by fedora and which not > That's great. I don't even ask for the word 'support' to be used, I > would be happy with: > > * works with clean fedora (no binary blob drivers or firmware required) > * works with non fedora worthy firmware > * works in Linux, but not Fedora ready (or clean enough) > * no idea > * doesn't work Who would compile and keep this up to date? Have you any idea of how many brands and models of different pieces are around? -- Dr. Horst H. von Brand User #22616 counter.li.org Departamento de Informatica Fono: +56 32 2654431 Universidad Tecnica Federico Santa Maria +56 32 2654239 Casilla 110-V, Valparaiso, Chile Fax: +56 32 2797513 From vonbrand at inf.utfsm.cl Mon Jan 8 00:02:15 2007 From: vonbrand at inf.utfsm.cl (Horst H. von Brand) Date: Sun, 07 Jan 2007 21:02:15 -0300 Subject: rawhide report: 20070107 changes In-Reply-To: Your message of "Sun, 07 Jan 2007 16:57:38 -0300." <200701071957.l07JvcDR010060@laptop13.inf.utfsm.cl> Message-ID: <200701080002.l0802FZm018109@laptop13.inf.utfsm.cl> Horst H. von Brand wrote: > sean wrote: > > buildsys at redhat.com wrote: > > > > kernel-2.6.19-1.2905.fc7 > > > ------------------------ > > > * Sat Jan 06 2007 Dave Jones > > > - 2.6.20rc3-git4 > > > Installing: kernel ####################### [ 3/33] > > /sbin/mkinitrd: line 154: 3532 Segmentation fault $ldso --verify > > $bin > /dev/null 2>&1 > > /sbin/mkinitrd: line 154: 3533 Segmentation fault $ldso --verify > > $bin > /dev/null 2>&1 > > /sbin/mkinitrd: line 154: 3548 Segmentation fault $ldso --verify > > $bin > /dev/null 2>&1 > > .......................... > > > > ??? > > What mkinitrd is this? What kind of machine? Here (Centrino duo notebook, also dual-core x86_64) it works fine. mkinitrd-6.0.6-1 -- Dr. Horst H. von Brand User #22616 counter.li.org Departamento de Informatica Fono: +56 32 2654431 Universidad Tecnica Federico Santa Maria +56 32 2654239 Casilla 110-V, Valparaiso, Chile Fax: +56 32 2797513 From pemboa at gmail.com Mon Jan 8 04:37:17 2007 From: pemboa at gmail.com (Arthur Pemberton) Date: Mon, 8 Jan 2007 22:37:17 +1800 Subject: Fedora 7 In-Reply-To: <200701072335.l07NZHY5017122@laptop13.inf.utfsm.cl> References: <16de708d0701071204x3b8cc69dk550ec4fff54f6037@mail.gmail.com> <200701072335.l07NZHY5017122@laptop13.inf.utfsm.cl> Message-ID: <16de708d0701072037g77364ae3wafaafe136ff6d579@mail.gmail.com> On 1/8/07, Horst H. von Brand wrote: > Arthur Pemberton wrote: > > On 1/8/07, dragoran wrote: > > > Arthur Pemberton wrote: > > > > On 1/4/07, Bill Nottingham wrote: > > > >> And, what would a release be without features. We've identified > > > >> 28 features that we'd like to include in the release, available > > > >> at http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Releases/7/Features: > > > > > > > > Two more things: > > > > > > > > 1) Is there any plan to have some sort of Fedora recommends hardware > > > > of manufacturer X,Y,Z? I'm not thinking of hardware certification, > > > > just recommendations. I think this would be very beneficial. > > > > > > > we should create some sort of hw db where people can check which hw is > > > supported by fedora and which not > > > That's great. I don't even ask for the word 'support' to be used, I > > would be happy with: > > > > * works with clean fedora (no binary blob drivers or firmware required) > > * works with non fedora worthy firmware > > * works in Linux, but not Fedora ready (or clean enough) > > * no idea > > * doesn't work > > Who would compile and keep this up to date? Have you any idea of how many > brands and models of different pieces are around? The community would. For example: 1) I install F7 2) My tv card works immediately without any additional drivers 3) I pull the card info from available sources 4) I add it to the db if it isn't already there The process would just need to have to peer review/dispute Another exmaple: 1) I instal FC6 2) I try a sound interface card (Echo Gina 24) 3) I realise the drivers are in the FC6 kernel (gina24.ko) 4) I realise that I need firmware not availabe in the official fedora repos to get the device to work with alsa 5) I gather the info on the card (including the fac that it is a discontinued model) 6) I add it to the db if it isn't ther All I'm asking for a Fedora blessed infrastructure to be put in place, not for any one person to be responsible for populating it The benefit of this being that next time I'm buying hardware, I can scurry over to the db and check what the best options are. -- Fedora Core 6 and proud From bruno at wolff.to Mon Jan 8 07:53:44 2007 From: bruno at wolff.to (Bruno Wolff III) Date: Mon, 8 Jan 2007 01:53:44 -0600 Subject: Grub 2 and FC7? In-Reply-To: <45A013F2.5020601@gmail.com> References: <20070106072548.GA15367@wolff.to> <45A013F2.5020601@gmail.com> Message-ID: <20070108075344.GA4529@wolff.to> On Sat, Jan 06, 2007 at 22:26:10 +0100, dragoran wrote: > Bruno Wolff III wrote: > >Are there plans to give an option to install Grub 2 in FC7? The Grub 2 wiki > >now claims that software raid and lvm are supported, which are some nice > >new features. > > > > > is it useable now? > and if not what are the chances to get it working (no regressions) until > the feature freeze? I haven't tried it, I just noticed they now claim to be supporting a feature I would like (being able to read file systems on top of software raid). One of these is in 1.95 and one is in CVS which will be in 1.96, which was due out a month or so ago according the their tentative release schedule. If someone were to try to implement using grub 2 in fc7, I would be willing to try a few things out with it. I have some scratch partitions for test installs and could test it working at all, with software raid 1 and/or a simple LVM setup on i686 hardware. From buildsys at redhat.com Mon Jan 8 11:13:11 2007 From: buildsys at redhat.com (buildsys at redhat.com) Date: Mon, 8 Jan 2007 06:13:11 -0500 Subject: rawhide report: 20070108 changes Message-ID: <200701081113.l08BDBtT029997@hs20-bc2-6.build.redhat.com> Updated Packages: gnome-python2-2.17.1-1.fc7 -------------------------- * Sun Jan 07 2007 Matthew Barnes - 2.17.1-1 - Update to 2.17.1 gnome-python2-desktop-2.17.2-1.fc7 ---------------------------------- * Sun Jan 07 2007 Matthew Barnes - 2.17.2-1 - Update to 2.17.2 - New gnome-python2-bugbuddy subpackage. - Update version requirements to match configure.ac. - Use python_sitearch macro for installing libraries. kernel-2.6.19-1.2906.fc7 ------------------------ * Sun Jan 07 2007 Dave Jones - 2.6.20rc4 Broken deps for s390 ---------------------------------------------------------- systemtap - 0.5.10-1.fc7.s390 requires kernel >= 0:2.6.9-11 systemtap-runtime - 0.5.10-1.fc7.s390 requires kernel >= 0:2.6.9-11 From bruno at wolff.to Mon Jan 8 11:35:49 2007 From: bruno at wolff.to (Bruno Wolff III) Date: Mon, 8 Jan 2007 05:35:49 -0600 Subject: Grub 2 and FC7? In-Reply-To: <20070108075344.GA4529@wolff.to> References: <20070106072548.GA15367@wolff.to> <45A013F2.5020601@gmail.com> <20070108075344.GA4529@wolff.to> Message-ID: <20070108113549.GA16872@wolff.to> I tried out grub 2 and was able to boot my system, so it isn't totally broken. However, it did not seem to recognize my raid devices when booting and kept putting me into rescue mode. Loading the raid module didn't seem to help, as ls just showed the normal partitions and the floppy drive. However, since I am using raid 1, I could use the partitions normally. This allowed me to load the configfile module, so I could go into normal mode and then do linux, initrd, and boot to boot my system. The grub 2 documentation is very scarce and I can't tell if I just have something set up wrong or if my problems were do to an actual bug. From seandarcy2 at gmail.com Mon Jan 8 14:12:40 2007 From: seandarcy2 at gmail.com (sean) Date: Mon, 08 Jan 2007 09:12:40 -0500 Subject: rawhide report: 20070107 changes In-Reply-To: <200701071957.l07JvcDR010060@laptop13.inf.utfsm.cl> References: <200701071957.l07JvcDR010060@laptop13.inf.utfsm.cl> Message-ID: <45A25158.2080102@gmail.com> Horst H. von Brand wrote: > sean wrote: >> buildsys at redhat.com wrote: > >>> kernel-2.6.19-1.2905.fc7 >>> ------------------------ >>> * Sat Jan 06 2007 Dave Jones >>> - 2.6.20rc3-git4 > >> Installing: kernel ####################### [ 3/33] >> /sbin/mkinitrd: line 154: 3532 Segmentation fault $ldso --verify >> $bin > /dev/null 2>&1 >> /sbin/mkinitrd: line 154: 3533 Segmentation fault $ldso --verify >> $bin > /dev/null 2>&1 >> /sbin/mkinitrd: line 154: 3548 Segmentation fault $ldso --verify >> $bin > /dev/null 2>&1 >> .......................... >> >> ??? > > What mkinitrd is this? What kind of machine? mkinitrd-6.0.6-1.x86_64 amd64 sean From ihok at hotmail.com Mon Jan 8 15:03:37 2007 From: ihok at hotmail.com (Jack Tanner) Date: Mon, 08 Jan 2007 10:03:37 -0500 Subject: Fedora 7 In-Reply-To: <16de708d0701072037g77364ae3wafaafe136ff6d579@mail.gmail.com> References: <16de708d0701071204x3b8cc69dk550ec4fff54f6037@mail.gmail.com> <200701072335.l07NZHY5017122@laptop13.inf.utfsm.cl> <16de708d0701072037g77364ae3wafaafe136ff6d579@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: Arthur Pemberton wrote: > The community would. For example: > > 1) I install F7 > 2) My tv card works immediately without any additional drivers > 3) I pull the card info from available sources > 4) I add it to the db if it isn't already there > > The process would just need to have to peer review/dispute > > Another exmaple: > > 1) I instal FC6 > 2) I try a sound interface card (Echo Gina 24) > 3) I realise the drivers are in the FC6 kernel (gina24.ko) > 4) I realise that I need firmware not availabe in the official fedora > repos to get the device to work with alsa > 5) I gather the info on the card (including the fac that it is a > discontinued model) > 6) I add it to the db if it isn't ther > > All I'm asking for a Fedora blessed infrastructure to be put in place, > not for any one person to be responsible for populating it > > The benefit of this being that next time I'm buying hardware, I can > scurry over to the db and check what the best options are. Since we're talking pie in the sky, I give to you Hardware Buddy. 1) Install FC7+ 2) Opt in to "Automated Fedora-Compatibile Hardware Reporting" (in firstboot?) 3) for every piece of hardware that's ever detected on this machine, including removable devices like USB keys, etc. a) Hardware Buddy compiles a report on the device b) checks that the device hasn't been reported from this machine c) asks user to confirm if device is working correctly d) submits the report to some wiki with optional user comments In the wiki, such votes are automatically analyzed by kernel/etc version, and percentage working device reports out of all reports. (B) would cut down on duplicates. Although the definitition of "machine" can be foggy, we could operationalize this as just a file in /var that keeps a log of what's been reported. (C) is crucial, because just being able to detect a device isn't the same as being able to confirm that it works. Some confirming could be automated (it's easy to tell if a network card or a USB drive work), some would have to be manual. Ideally, one would present the user with a suggested testing scenario, e.g., for a printer, does this test page look OK? For devices both working and non, Hardware Buddy could automatically collect info like the output of lspci, etc. For bonus points, the wiki can automatically cheer Linux-friendly manufacturers (lots of compatible devices), and jeer unfriendly ones (lots of incompatible hardware) on its front page. Lots of interesting questions remain. If a new kernel comes out with new drivers supporting some piece of hardware, what happens to old reports in the wiki? Perhaps they expire after some time. Or perhaps not, since we can just keep them as cumulative statistics. What if some device is "partially" supported? But it seems like this could be a fruitful direction. From rdieter at math.unl.edu Mon Jan 8 15:15:23 2007 From: rdieter at math.unl.edu (Rex Dieter) Date: Mon, 08 Jan 2007 09:15:23 -0600 Subject: Fedora Desktop vs. Fedora Desktop =?utf-8?b?e0dOT01FLMKgS0RF?= =?utf-8?q?=7D?= References: <20070104195032.GE4693@nostromo.devel.redhat.com> <200701060734.25783.jkeating@redhat.com> <459F9B7C.6040000@fedoraproject.org> <200701060813.30545.jkeating@redhat.com> <604aa7910701061304o62679fd2na9b5847a35f2675a@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: Jeff Spaleta wrote: > On 1/6/07, Jesse Keating wrote: >> Because it is a targetted spin for a particular peice of software, much >> like an eclipse spin or XFCE spin or asterisk spin. > > Or to put it another way. Is the door open for a pure gnome spin using > community power in the future? Where we have the default browser be > gnome's default browser.. and use the gnome specific office > applications instead of open office? I know this isn't practical, but > I think it should be pointed out that what the best-of-breed 'Desktop' > looks like right now is not strictly gnome, it does deviate in > significant ways at the application layer to take advantage of > best-of-breed applications. Because of this it does make sense to > avoid calling it Fedora Gnome As usual Jeff, you make *way* too much sense for most people (ok, maybe just me) to comprehend sometimes. (: -- Rex From fitzsim at redhat.com Mon Jan 8 15:22:01 2007 From: fitzsim at redhat.com (Thomas Fitzsimmons) Date: Mon, 08 Jan 2007 10:22:01 -0500 Subject: Fedora 7 In-Reply-To: <1168098436.19008.2.camel@localhost.localdomain> References: <20070104195032.GE4693@nostromo.devel.redhat.com> <200701041749.33764.jkeating@redhat.com> <459F5452.4080305@togami.com> <200701060854.00427.dennis@ausil.us> <1168098436.19008.2.camel@localhost.localdomain> Message-ID: <45A26199.3030805@redhat.com> Andrew Overholt wrote: > On Sat, 2007-06-01 at 08:53 -0600, Dennis Gilmore wrote: >> When talking to the developers of FDS yesterday We may hit a snag. the java >> bits. still need suns java. Red Hat's Java team have made them build with >> gcj but they don't run 100% yet with it. > > I'm pretty sure Tom Fitzsimmons told me that things do indeed work. > Tom? I'm not sure what is meant by "100%" here. There is an issue with the console script that causes gij to OOM on startup: https://bugzilla.redhat.com/bugzilla/show_bug.cgi?id=183962 Once that problem is fixed (early this year, according to the bug report), the tools will run well -- I did some smoke testing just before FC-6 was released. If there are other issues running FDS on GCJ, please file them in Red Hat Bugzilla against the java-1.4.2-gcj-compat component. Tom From oisin.feeley at gmail.com Mon Jan 8 15:24:41 2007 From: oisin.feeley at gmail.com (Oisin Feeley) Date: Mon, 8 Jan 2007 10:24:41 -0500 Subject: Fedora 7 In-Reply-To: References: <16de708d0701071204x3b8cc69dk550ec4fff54f6037@mail.gmail.com> <200701072335.l07NZHY5017122@laptop13.inf.utfsm.cl> <16de708d0701072037g77364ae3wafaafe136ff6d579@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: On 1/8/07, Jack Tanner wrote: [snip some more detailed usage scenarios] > Since we're talking pie in the sky, I give to you Hardware Buddy. > > 1) Install FC7+ > 2) Opt in to "Automated Fedora-Compatibile Hardware Reporting" (in > firstboot?) > 3) for every piece of hardware that's ever detected on this machine, > including removable devices like USB keys, etc. > a) Hardware Buddy compiles a report on the device > b) checks that the device hasn't been reported from this machine > c) asks user to confirm if device is working correctly > d) submits the report to some wiki with optional user comments Perhaps a modification of "sysreport", which already exists? 3b-3d could be done outside of the tool on a server and sysreport could be modified to submit to this hypothetical server instead of to RH support. 3a would obviously require running the tool each time dbus reports some new hardware. "Description : Sysreport is a utility that gathers information about a system's hardware and configuration. The information can then be used for diagnostic purposes and debugging. Sysreport is commonly used to help support technicians and developers by providing a "snapshot" of a system's current layout." Oisin Feeley From nicolas.mailhot at laposte.net Mon Jan 8 15:59:29 2007 From: nicolas.mailhot at laposte.net (Nicolas Mailhot) Date: Mon, 8 Jan 2007 16:59:29 +0100 (CET) Subject: Fedora 7 In-Reply-To: References: <16de708d0701071204x3b8cc69dk550ec4fff54f6037@mail.gmail.com> <200701072335.l07NZHY5017122@laptop13.inf.utfsm.cl> <16de708d0701072037g77364ae3wafaafe136ff6d579@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <44369.192.54.193.51.1168271969.squirrel@rousalka.dyndns.org> Le Lun 8 janvier 2007 16:03, Jack Tanner a ?crit : > Since we're talking pie in the sky, I give to you Hardware Buddy. 1. You don't want an install-time check because a. in our brave new hotplug world hardware composition of a system evolves over time b. just because something does not work *today* does not mean it won't work a month later when the software part is updated (unfortunately, the reverse is true). The user must have the possibility to change his evaluation 2. You don't want to cull failing devices too - knowing the installed hardware base available to linux systems is crucial to focus new driver development/manufacturer evangelization 3. You should allow fully automated non-interactive mode - non reviewed data is better than no data and most users will get sick reporting every time they plug a new usb bit on their system 4. Feeds to other projects (for example pciid database feed) would be beneficial both to the community and as Fedora advertising. Unfortunately, we're both a bit late for Christmas. -- Nicolas Mailhot From nicolas.mailhot at laposte.net Mon Jan 8 16:02:58 2007 From: nicolas.mailhot at laposte.net (Nicolas Mailhot) Date: Mon, 8 Jan 2007 17:02:58 +0100 (CET) Subject: Fedora 7 In-Reply-To: References: <16de708d0701071204x3b8cc69dk550ec4fff54f6037@mail.gmail.com> <200701072335.l07NZHY5017122@laptop13.inf.utfsm.cl> <16de708d0701072037g77364ae3wafaafe136ff6d579@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <57233.192.54.193.51.1168272178.squirrel@rousalka.dyndns.org> Le Lun 8 janvier 2007 16:24, Oisin Feeley a ?crit : > Perhaps a modification of "sysreport", which already exists? IMHO klive (http://klive.cpushare.com/) is closer to what's needed Regards, -- Nicolas Mailhot From ajackson at redhat.com Mon Jan 8 16:30:41 2007 From: ajackson at redhat.com (Adam Jackson) Date: Mon, 08 Jan 2007 11:30:41 -0500 Subject: Fedora Core 7 - Compiz vs Beryl In-Reply-To: <1168045438.2398.4.camel@aurora.localdomain> References: <20070104212706.44899.qmail@web52412.mail.yahoo.com> <1167957394.2172.46.camel@dragon.valuecommerce.ne.jp> <1167970824.8614.2.camel@aurora.localdomain> <1167987945.3323.7.camel@localhost> <1168041504.4977.2.camel@aurora.localdomain> <1168042139.7683.591.camel@localhost.localdomain> <1168045438.2398.4.camel@aurora.localdomain> Message-ID: <1168273841.7683.598.camel@localhost.localdomain> On Fri, 2007-01-05 at 18:03 -0700, Trever L. Adams wrote: > On Fri, 2007-01-05 at 19:08 -0500, Adam Jackson wrote: > > On Fri, 2007-01-05 at 16:58 -0700, Trever L. Adams wrote: > > > > > My big complaint, probably my biggest, is the lack of an Expose like > > > functionality. I love it, it helps me work faster. > > > > Compiz has one. It's even enabled by default, last I checked. Make > > sure 'scale' is listed in > > > > /apps/compiz/general/allscreens/options/active_plugins > > > > and then check the settings in > > > > /apps/compiz/plugins/scale > > > > - ajax > > Ajax, thank you. This is helpful, but it illustrates my point. You want > me to go into a configuration editor that is not as clear (though > probably less cluttered) than that of beryl. This is what I mean that > compiz needs a graphical one. I was never arguing that point. - ajax From ihok at hotmail.com Mon Jan 8 16:44:45 2007 From: ihok at hotmail.com (Jack Tanner) Date: Mon, 08 Jan 2007 11:44:45 -0500 Subject: Fedora 7 In-Reply-To: <44369.192.54.193.51.1168271969.squirrel@rousalka.dyndns.org> References: <16de708d0701071204x3b8cc69dk550ec4fff54f6037@mail.gmail.com> <200701072335.l07NZHY5017122@laptop13.inf.utfsm.cl> <16de708d0701072037g77364ae3wafaafe136ff6d579@mail.gmail.com> <44369.192.54.193.51.1168271969.squirrel@rousalka.dyndns.org> Message-ID: Nicolas Mailhot wrote: > 1. You don't want an install-time check because > a. in our brave new hotplug world hardware composition of a system > evolves over time Obviously. No, what I suggested for firstboot was that the user would get to opt in to the whole reporting procedure. I'm not sure that firstboot is the best place for even that. Ideally, you want to ask the person who's actually the console user. Perhaps this should be per user, even. > b. just because something does not work *today* does not mean it won't > work a month later when the software part is updated (unfortunately, the > reverse is true). The user must have the possibility to change his > evaluation Yup. > 2. You don't want to cull failing devices too - knowing the installed > hardware base available to linux systems is crucial to focus new driver > development/manufacturer evangelization Yup. > 3. You should allow fully automated non-interactive mode - non reviewed > data is better than no data and most users will get sick reporting every > time they plug a new usb bit on their system Sure. Fully automated should still be opted into. So: ( ) Prompt me for comments whenever Hardware Buddy wants to report a new device (*) Don't ask for comments, just report automatically (What info is included?) ( ) Disable Hardware Buddy altogether > 4. Feeds to other projects (for example pciid database feed) would be > beneficial both to the community and as Fedora advertising. Yup. > Unfortunately, we're both a bit late for Christmas. Yup. Hm. Anyone want to play cupid? Valentine's Day is coming up, and I could fall in love with my Hardware Buddy. :) From katzj at redhat.com Mon Jan 8 17:35:17 2007 From: katzj at redhat.com (Jeremy Katz) Date: Mon, 08 Jan 2007 12:35:17 -0500 Subject: Fedora 7 In-Reply-To: <459FC485.3010809@gmail.com> References: <20070104195032.GE4693@nostromo.devel.redhat.com> <459FC485.3010809@gmail.com> Message-ID: <1168277717.4283.19.camel@aglarond.local> On Sat, 2007-01-06 at 16:47 +0100, dragoran wrote: > can we add this to the list: > make yum/pirut able to install software from media (cd/dvd) ? > This was on the TODO list since FC5 is out and its still not fixed > I know that this works by setting up a local repo but this isn't really > a option (for new users) and requiring a broadband connection to install > software will let some users switch to or > even back to windows. It's one of the big-ish things I'm hoping to get done; I have the start of poking some infrastructure down into yum lying around from right after Thanksgiving, I need to just flesh it out and send a proposal to yum-devel on how it should work. I'll try to add it to the wiki list later today. Of course, that depends on if I ever finish reading my mail ;-) Jeremy From katzj at redhat.com Mon Jan 8 17:37:57 2007 From: katzj at redhat.com (Jeremy Katz) Date: Mon, 08 Jan 2007 12:37:57 -0500 Subject: Fedora 7 In-Reply-To: <16de708d0701070410k23713cb3l1ff0f5279dcbe55c@mail.gmail.com> References: <20070104195032.GE4693@nostromo.devel.redhat.com> <16de708d0701070410k23713cb3l1ff0f5279dcbe55c@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <1168277877.4283.22.camel@aglarond.local> On Sun, 2007-01-07 at 06:10 -0600, Arthur Pemberton wrote: > 2) I haven't heard much of Python 2.5 for Fedora 7. Comments would be > appreciated. It's already in rawhide and thus will be in Fedora 7. It could have a bullet on the feature list, but new foo x.y.z just isn't that interesting as a "feature", IMHO Jeremy From dlutter at redhat.com Mon Jan 8 18:03:58 2007 From: dlutter at redhat.com (David Lutterkort) Date: Mon, 08 Jan 2007 10:03:58 -0800 Subject: Fedora 7 (Everything installs) In-Reply-To: <200701071532.34909.jkeating@redhat.com> References: <20070104195032.GE4693@nostromo.devel.redhat.com> <200701071511.47529.jkeating@redhat.com> <200701071424.59753.dennis@ausil.us> <200701071532.34909.jkeating@redhat.com> Message-ID: <1168279438.32751.11.camel@localhost.localdomain> On Sun, 2007-01-07 at 15:32 -0500, Jesse Keating wrote: > On Sunday 07 January 2007 15:24, Dennis Gilmore wrote: > > What would be nice for kickstart files on iso's namely DVD iso is > > pre-defined installs for postfix mail server, sendmail mail server, mysql > > database server , postgresql server etc. Ones that install a > > predefined set of packages. but have the user set partitioning, root > > password etc. > > Well, one could have different comps files used based upon which option you > select, so if you select a mailserver in anaconda, it would use the comps > file for that which has the right stuff mandatory/default. Something to > think about for say F8. Why would you need different comps files ? Wouldn't it be enough to have separate 'sendmail mailserver' and 'postfix mailserver' groups ? In general, I am not convinced that basing this on tools that are mainly meant for interactive use (like comps) is really all that useful in the server world - what we want is something like kickstart, but with a clean separation between the stuff that is site-independent (e.g. which packages go on a postfix mailserver) and the stuff that is very site dependent (storage setup, authentication, backup, ...) For servers, you quickly get into questions that are more config mgmt questions than install/provisioning questions. Either way, having a good list of the most popular server setups and/or package lists for them would be a very good start. David From dlutter at redhat.com Mon Jan 8 18:10:45 2007 From: dlutter at redhat.com (David Lutterkort) Date: Mon, 08 Jan 2007 10:10:45 -0800 Subject: Fedora 7 (Everything installs) In-Reply-To: <200701071424.59753.dennis@ausil.us> References: <20070104195032.GE4693@nostromo.devel.redhat.com> <604aa7910701071114v405abbd5rbe6957f916302d4c@mail.gmail.com> <200701071511.47529.jkeating@redhat.com> <200701071424.59753.dennis@ausil.us> Message-ID: <1168279845.32751.16.camel@localhost.localdomain> On Sun, 2007-01-07 at 14:24 -0600, Dennis Gilmore wrote: > Once upon a time Sunday 07 January 2007 2:11 pm, Jesse Keating wrote: > > On Sunday 07 January 2007 14:14, Jeff Spaleta wrote: > > > On 1/7/07, Jesse Keating wrote: > > > > You can with a remote kickstart file or a file on a floppy, or (do we > > > > support ks on a USB stick yet?) > > > > > > computers still come with floppy drives? > > > > Some do, there are USB floppies too. > > > > I wouldn't be opposed to having a set of kickstart config files on the isos > > too, interactive of course, but I'll wait for those to be submitted. > > What would be nice for kickstart files on iso's namely DVD iso is pre-defined > installs for postfix mail server, sendmail mail server, mysql database > server , postgresql server etc. Ones that install a predefined set of > packages. but have the user set partitioning, root password etc. That I think is where a Ferdora Server spin would add a lot of value: if it came with the tools that are necessary to set up various 'server personalities' (for lack of a better word) There's a good amount of overlap with this idea and the 'virtual appliances' that everybody likes these days. From a sysadmin's point of view, the two should be very similar. David From dlutter at redhat.com Mon Jan 8 19:20:57 2007 From: dlutter at redhat.com (David Lutterkort) Date: Mon, 08 Jan 2007 11:20:57 -0800 Subject: Fedora 7 (Everything installs) In-Reply-To: <20070107012204.GA19260@jadzia.bu.edu> References: <20070104195032.GE4693@nostromo.devel.redhat.com> <7873-SnapperMsg827D11E1C1C47D24@70.6.76.140> <1168036027.26602.4.camel@localhost.localdomain> <1168037038.3358.16.camel@mentorng.gurulabs.com> <45A00C66.7070907@redhat.com> <604aa7910701061312n3aaa6454q6cd7325aeeea2c51@mail.gmail.com> <20070107012204.GA19260@jadzia.bu.edu> Message-ID: <1168284057.32751.31.camel@localhost.localdomain> On Sat, 2007-01-06 at 20:22 -0500, Matthew Miller wrote: > On Sat, Jan 06, 2007 at 12:12:42PM -0900, Jeff Spaleta wrote: > > niche install scenarios? Do we need to start compiling well commented > > examples of useful kickstart files into the wiki and point to them > > from the release notes? What will it take to get people stop looking > > Put them on the install CDs. A good collection would be useful for other purposes, too, e.g. for cobbler[1] or prm[2] - basically, what everybody wants is answers to common setup/config questions that can be consumed by tools. A collection of kickstart files would definitely be a good first step towards that. David [1] http://cobbler.et.redhat.com/ [2] http://et.redhat.com/emd/prm/ From jspaleta at gmail.com Mon Jan 8 19:35:11 2007 From: jspaleta at gmail.com (Jeff Spaleta) Date: Mon, 8 Jan 2007 10:35:11 -0900 Subject: Fedora 7 (Everything installs) In-Reply-To: <1168284057.32751.31.camel@localhost.localdomain> References: <20070104195032.GE4693@nostromo.devel.redhat.com> <7873-SnapperMsg827D11E1C1C47D24@70.6.76.140> <1168036027.26602.4.camel@localhost.localdomain> <1168037038.3358.16.camel@mentorng.gurulabs.com> <45A00C66.7070907@redhat.com> <604aa7910701061312n3aaa6454q6cd7325aeeea2c51@mail.gmail.com> <20070107012204.GA19260@jadzia.bu.edu> <1168284057.32751.31.camel@localhost.localdomain> Message-ID: <604aa7910701081135l1f60ab47n36938d6c09661867@mail.gmail.com> On 1/8/07, David Lutterkort wrote: > A good collection would be useful for other purposes, too, e.g. for > cobbler[1] or prm[2] - basically, what everybody wants is answers to > common setup/config questions that can be consumed by tools. A > collection of kickstart files would definitely be a good first step > towards that. Do you have any kickstart files on hand we can use as a starting putting for a raw collection? -jef From mark at mitre.org Mon Jan 8 20:13:18 2007 From: mark at mitre.org (Mark Heslep) Date: Mon, 08 Jan 2007 15:13:18 -0500 Subject: Fedora Core 7 - Compiz vs Beryl In-Reply-To: <1167957394.2172.46.camel@dragon.valuecommerce.ne.jp> References: <20070104212706.44899.qmail@web52412.mail.yahoo.com> <1167957394.2172.46.camel@dragon.valuecommerce.ne.jp> Message-ID: <45A2A5DE.6070308@mitre.org> Naoki wrote: > Compiz is the upstream original, Beryl is a fork. > > Compiz uses gconf which is pretty standard and works well with gnome > obviously, Beryl uses flat file. > > Beryl has (had?) some additional plugins, but plugins are being written > for compiz all the time as well, look at compiz-extras. > > Beryl has a theme manager, compiz uses cairo, metacity, or KDE themes. > > They look the same to me but Compiz just seems to be the better > integrated of the two. > > > Add: Beryl supports dual head xinerama properly. Compiz does not. Compiz is preferred here otherwise, but no dual head is a show stopper. Mark From dbhole at redhat.com Mon Jan 8 21:21:38 2007 From: dbhole at redhat.com (Deepak Bhole) Date: Mon, 08 Jan 2007 16:21:38 -0500 Subject: List for Mock related questions? Message-ID: <1168291298.18495.0.camel@tocatta.toronto.redhat.com> Hi, What is the appropriate list to direct Mock related questions to? Thanks, Deepak From mharris at mharris.ca Mon Jan 8 21:38:24 2007 From: mharris at mharris.ca (Mike A. Harris) Date: Mon, 08 Jan 2007 16:38:24 -0500 Subject: [offtopic] Ignacio Vazquez-Abrams In-Reply-To: <1166840792.2463.1.camel@averatec> References: <16de708d0608282246x7b7a1eabi89e782f085efe636@mail.gmail.com> <16de708d0612220054h59fcd7f4u7b3182a095e531ae@mail.gmail.com> <1166840792.2463.1.camel@averatec> Message-ID: <45A2B9D0.5010903@mharris.ca> Jon Nettleton wrote: > On Fri, 2006-12-22 at 11:42 -0500, Konstantin Ryabitsev wrote: >> On 12/22/06, Arthur Pemberton wrote: >>> Is it safe to say that this guy has gone to a better place? Even his >>> domain has expired now. >> I've done some investigative work, but I'm afraid unless he announces >> himself, we won't be able to find anything out. >> >> I've used the whitepages to look up his last known address, and then >> called a few neighbours on the same street. It seems that the house >> was owned by someone else, who was renting out an apartment -- I'm >> guessing Ignacio was their tenant. According to one of the neighbours, >> earlier this year the house went for sale, and the old owner moved >> elsewhere -- Ignacio probably also had to move at that point. >> >> Sadly, that's where the trail ends. I called the Bampton police >> department, but they have no records for Ignacio Vazquez-Abrams, so if >> anything happened to him, it must have happened outside of Brampton. I >> guess we can call the Toronto police department, but I doubt they >> would be as helpful as Brampton's. >> >> There you have it, folks. Let's hope he's just been busy with life, >> since we have no reason to believe otherwise. >> >> Cheers, >> -- >> Konstantin Ryabitsev >> Montr?al, Qu?bec >> > > Has anyone tried to snail mail his last known mailing address? He might > be having his mail forwarded. Just a thought. I found a secondary mail address for him: ignacio at fastmail.ca I sent him an email just a few minutes ago. If I hear anything back, or it bounces, I'll pass along the info. From seandarcy2 at gmail.com Tue Jan 9 03:56:59 2007 From: seandarcy2 at gmail.com (sean) Date: Mon, 08 Jan 2007 22:56:59 -0500 Subject: rawhide report: 20070107 changes In-Reply-To: <45A25158.2080102@gmail.com> References: <200701071957.l07JvcDR010060@laptop13.inf.utfsm.cl> <45A25158.2080102@gmail.com> Message-ID: sean wrote: > Horst H. von Brand wrote: >> sean wrote: >>> buildsys at redhat.com wrote: >> >>>> kernel-2.6.19-1.2905.fc7 >>>> ------------------------ >>>> * Sat Jan 06 2007 Dave Jones >>>> - 2.6.20rc3-git4 >> >>> Installing: kernel ####################### [ 3/33] >>> /sbin/mkinitrd: line 154: 3532 Segmentation fault $ldso --verify >>> $bin > /dev/null 2>&1 >>> /sbin/mkinitrd: line 154: 3533 Segmentation fault $ldso --verify >>> $bin > /dev/null 2>&1 >>> /sbin/mkinitrd: line 154: 3548 Segmentation fault $ldso --verify >>> $bin > /dev/null 2>&1 >>> .......................... >>> >>> ??? >> >> What mkinitrd is this? What kind of machine? > > > mkinitrd-6.0.6-1.x86_64 > amd64 > > sean > FWIW, happened again today with kernel.x86_64 0:2.6.19-1.2906.fc7 sean From rdieter at math.unl.edu Mon Jan 8 21:42:19 2007 From: rdieter at math.unl.edu (Rex Dieter) Date: Mon, 08 Jan 2007 15:42:19 -0600 Subject: F7 KDE spin Message-ID: <45A2BABB.2090902@math.unl.edu> OK, I've slapped down a quick-n-dirty laundry list of items off the top of my head to get started on the F7 KDE spin: http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Releases/FeatureFedoraKDE Folks are welcome to contribute, criticize, add-to. -- Rex From jkeating at redhat.com Mon Jan 8 21:54:46 2007 From: jkeating at redhat.com (Jesse Keating) Date: Mon, 8 Jan 2007 16:54:46 -0500 Subject: List for Mock related questions? In-Reply-To: <1168291298.18495.0.camel@tocatta.toronto.redhat.com> References: <1168291298.18495.0.camel@tocatta.toronto.redhat.com> Message-ID: <200701081654.47016.jkeating@redhat.com> On Monday 08 January 2007 16:21, Deepak Bhole wrote: > What is the appropriate list to direct Mock related questions to? fedora-buildsys-list at redhat.com -- Jesse Keating Release Engineer: Fedora -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 189 bytes Desc: not available URL: From dbhole at redhat.com Mon Jan 8 22:04:07 2007 From: dbhole at redhat.com (Deepak Bhole) Date: Mon, 08 Jan 2007 17:04:07 -0500 Subject: List for Mock related questions? -- thanks In-Reply-To: <200701081654.47016.jkeating@redhat.com> References: <1168291298.18495.0.camel@tocatta.toronto.redhat.com> <200701081654.47016.jkeating@redhat.com> Message-ID: <1168293847.18495.2.camel@tocatta.toronto.redhat.com> On Mon, 2007-01-08 at 16:54 -0500, Jesse Keating wrote: > On Monday 08 January 2007 16:21, Deepak Bhole wrote: > > What is the appropriate list to direct Mock related questions to? > > fedora-buildsys-list at redhat.com > > -- > fedora-devel-list mailing list > fedora-devel-list at redhat.com > https://www.redhat.com/mailman/listinfo/fedora-devel-list From chitlesh at fedoraproject.org Mon Jan 8 22:02:43 2007 From: chitlesh at fedoraproject.org (Chitlesh GOORAH) Date: Mon, 8 Jan 2007 23:02:43 +0100 Subject: F7 KDE spin In-Reply-To: <45A2BABB.2090902@math.unl.edu> References: <45A2BABB.2090902@math.unl.edu> Message-ID: <13dbfe4f0701081402j584b1f26oc81fbae61f517e58@mail.gmail.com> Hello, I just love to see this: Internet: konversation +1. However work should be done to prevent having 2 or more applications on the spin which do the same thing. eg. having konversation and ksirc on the spin (a bad idea) Some tools which are for eye-candy and as the same time handy: yakuake and katapult. Theming : I wish you ppl could have a look at: https://www.redhat.com/archives/fedora-art-list/2006-December/msg00206.html Something which I would like to see is that "a kmenu which not crowded". There are lots of things which can be done here: - in FE guidelines, propose not to add more than one item on the kmenu per gui package - .desktop files of some kcontrol plugins shouldn't be added to kmenu - perhaps the .desktop files of kontact contacts (kmail,Akregator,..) shouldn't be added to kmenu since they are easily accessible to the users. * compiz. If F7 will be using compiz by default , perhaps the desktop-effects should be optimized for kde. There are some compiz bugs opened in respect to kde. * Echo Icon theme Since i last heard, echo icon theme isn't compatible with kde. * help and encourage contributors to add more and more kde packages in the Fedora world chitlesh -- http://clunixchit.blogspot.com From sundaram at fedoraproject.org Mon Jan 8 22:10:38 2007 From: sundaram at fedoraproject.org (Rahul Sundaram) Date: Tue, 09 Jan 2007 03:40:38 +0530 Subject: F7 KDE spin In-Reply-To: <13dbfe4f0701081402j584b1f26oc81fbae61f517e58@mail.gmail.com> References: <45A2BABB.2090902@math.unl.edu> <13dbfe4f0701081402j584b1f26oc81fbae61f517e58@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <45A2C15E.8040900@fedoraproject.org> Chitlesh GOORAH wrote: > * compiz. > If F7 will be using compiz by default , perhaps the desktop-effects > should be optimized for kde. There are some compiz bugs opened in > respect to kde. F7 is a name for a set of spins now. Each of the different spin can have very different defaults. It is possible (but may not be a good idea) that the KDE spin has Beryl as default while the GNOME one has Compiz. Rahul From chitlesh at fedoraproject.org Mon Jan 8 22:17:19 2007 From: chitlesh at fedoraproject.org (Chitlesh GOORAH) Date: Mon, 8 Jan 2007 23:17:19 +0100 Subject: F7 KDE spin In-Reply-To: <45A2C15E.8040900@fedoraproject.org> References: <45A2BABB.2090902@math.unl.edu> <13dbfe4f0701081402j584b1f26oc81fbae61f517e58@mail.gmail.com> <45A2C15E.8040900@fedoraproject.org> Message-ID: <13dbfe4f0701081417i1399309fxd25ba105d31395bd@mail.gmail.com> On 1/8/07, Rahul Sundaram wrote: > Chitlesh GOORAH wrote: > > > * compiz. > > If F7 will be using compiz by default , perhaps the desktop-effects > > should be optimized for kde. There are some compiz bugs opened in > > respect to kde. > > F7 is a name for a set of spins now. Each of the different spin can have > very different defaults. It is possible (but may not be a good idea) > that the KDE spin has Beryl as default while the GNOME one has Compiz. I don't mind whether it's beryl or compiz by default as long as the Fedora packager responds in a 2 weeks delay. And at the same time, well integrated in the kde desktop. Chitlesh -- http://clunixchit.blogspot.com From chitlesh at fedoraproject.org Mon Jan 8 23:15:15 2007 From: chitlesh at fedoraproject.org (Chitlesh GOORAH) Date: Tue, 9 Jan 2007 00:15:15 +0100 Subject: F7 KDE spin In-Reply-To: <45A2BABB.2090902@math.unl.edu> References: <45A2BABB.2090902@math.unl.edu> Message-ID: <13dbfe4f0701081515m1fa6becch9c03a3828c8d0ca2@mail.gmail.com> On 1/8/07, Rex Dieter wrote: > OK, I've slapped down a quick-n-dirty laundry list of items off the top > of my head to get started on the F7 KDE spin: > http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Releases/FeatureFedoraKDE Hello, Knowing the fact, that this is that very first release of a Fedora KDE spin, shouldn't we encourage the KDE sig to be "owners" and at the same time help in creating a nice little fedora kde sig ? Chitlesh -- http://clunixchit.blogspot.com From david at fubar.dk Mon Jan 8 23:17:29 2007 From: david at fubar.dk (David Zeuthen) Date: Mon, 08 Jan 2007 18:17:29 -0500 Subject: F7 KDE spin In-Reply-To: <13dbfe4f0701081402j584b1f26oc81fbae61f517e58@mail.gmail.com> References: <45A2BABB.2090902@math.unl.edu> <13dbfe4f0701081402j584b1f26oc81fbae61f517e58@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <1168298249.2777.10.camel@zelda.fubar.dk> On Mon, 2007-01-08 at 23:02 +0100, Chitlesh GOORAH wrote: > However work should be done to prevent having 2 or more applications > on the spin which do the same thing. > eg. having konversation and ksirc on the spin (a bad idea) On a live CD this would be true (and I hope you KDE guys will send patches for a fedora-livecd-kde subpackage once the fedora-livecd SRPM is imported into Extras^WThe Fedora Package Collection) but in a spin (e.g. well-defined subset of packages in the Fedora Package Collection) I think it's fine to have multiple programs with overlapping functionality. A spin, as I see it, will define what options people have in the installer and it's not unlikely some people want to choose konversation, some people want xchat (or not, thinking out loud) and others want ksirc. A default install, however, should only choose one. But that's all at the discretion of the Fedora KDE spin maintainers I suppose. Then again, I know little about KDE, just offering my thoughts on the subject. Thanks. David From rdieter at math.unl.edu Mon Jan 8 23:55:02 2007 From: rdieter at math.unl.edu (Rex Dieter) Date: Mon, 08 Jan 2007 17:55:02 -0600 Subject: F7 KDE spin In-Reply-To: <13dbfe4f0701081515m1fa6becch9c03a3828c8d0ca2@mail.gmail.com> References: <45A2BABB.2090902@math.unl.edu> <13dbfe4f0701081515m1fa6becch9c03a3828c8d0ca2@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: Chitlesh GOORAH wrote: > On 1/8/07, Rex Dieter wrote: >> OK, I've slapped down a quick-n-dirty laundry list of items off the top >> of my head to get started on the F7 KDE spin: >> http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Releases/FeatureFedoraKDE > Knowing the fact, that this is that very first release of a Fedora KDE > spin, shouldn't we encourage the KDE sig to be "owners" and at the > same time help in creating a nice little fedora kde sig? Sure, more the merrier. -- Rex From lamont at gurulabs.com Mon Jan 8 18:55:14 2007 From: lamont at gurulabs.com (Lamont Peterson) Date: Mon, 8 Jan 2007 11:55:14 -0700 Subject: rawhide report: 20070108 changes In-Reply-To: <200701081113.l08BDBtT029997@hs20-bc2-6.build.redhat.com> References: <200701081113.l08BDBtT029997@hs20-bc2-6.build.redhat.com> Message-ID: <200701081155.25294.lamont@gurulabs.com> On Monday 08 January 2007 04:13am, buildsys at redhat.com wrote: > Updated Packages: [snip] > kernel-2.6.19-1.2906.fc7 > ------------------------ > * Sun Jan 07 2007 Dave Jones > - 2.6.20rc4 So, Dave ... 1. Is this a 2.6.19 or 2.6.20 kernel (or that changelog entry a typo)? 2. How does this go along with the recent thread about your 2.6.19 test kernels? 3. What about the one you were hoping to put into updates-testing, soon? > Broken deps for s390 > ---------------------------------------------------------- > systemtap - 0.5.10-1.fc7.s390 requires kernel >= 0:2.6.9-11 > systemtap-runtime - 0.5.10-1.fc7.s390 requires kernel >= 0:2.6.9-11 What's up with this? -- Lamont Peterson Senior Instructor Guru Labs, L.C. [ http://www.GuruLabs.com/ ] NOTE: All messages from this email address should be digitally signed with my 0xDC0DD409 GPG key. It is available on the pgp.mit.edu keyserver as well as other keyservers that sync with MIT's. -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 189 bytes Desc: not available URL: From jwboyer at jdub.homelinux.org Tue Jan 9 01:16:35 2007 From: jwboyer at jdub.homelinux.org (Josh Boyer) Date: Mon, 08 Jan 2007 19:16:35 -0600 Subject: rawhide report: 20070108 changes In-Reply-To: <200701081155.25294.lamont@gurulabs.com> References: <200701081113.l08BDBtT029997@hs20-bc2-6.build.redhat.com> <200701081155.25294.lamont@gurulabs.com> Message-ID: <1168305395.3159.84.camel@vader.jdub.homelinux.org> On Mon, 2007-01-08 at 11:55 -0700, Lamont Peterson wrote: > On Monday 08 January 2007 04:13am, buildsys at redhat.com wrote: > > Updated Packages: > [snip] > > kernel-2.6.19-1.2906.fc7 > > ------------------------ > > * Sun Jan 07 2007 Dave Jones > > - 2.6.20rc4 > > So, Dave ... > > 1. Is this a 2.6.19 or 2.6.20 kernel (or that changelog entry a typo)? 2.6.20rc4 He can't increment the version to 2.6.20 until the official release because of RPM NVR rules. E.g. 2.6.20rc4 > 2.6.20 > 2. How does this go along with the recent thread about your 2.6.19 test > kernels? It doesn't. Those were for FC-6 and based on 2.6.19 without libata. > 3. What about the one you were hoping to put into updates-testing, soon? Dunno on that one :) josh From davej at redhat.com Tue Jan 9 01:29:54 2007 From: davej at redhat.com (Dave Jones) Date: Mon, 8 Jan 2007 20:29:54 -0500 Subject: rawhide report: 20070108 changes In-Reply-To: <200701081155.25294.lamont@gurulabs.com> References: <200701081113.l08BDBtT029997@hs20-bc2-6.build.redhat.com> <200701081155.25294.lamont@gurulabs.com> Message-ID: <20070109012954.GA12825@redhat.com> On Mon, Jan 08, 2007 at 11:55:14AM -0700, Lamont Peterson wrote: > > kernel-2.6.19-1.2906.fc7 > > ------------------------ > > * Sun Jan 07 2007 Dave Jones > > - 2.6.20rc4 > > So, Dave ... > > 1. Is this a 2.6.19 or 2.6.20 kernel (or that changelog entry a typo)? .20rc4 > 2. How does this go along with the recent thread about your 2.6.19 test > kernels? Nothing to do with it (which is why this is an fc7 build rather than an fc6 build). > 3. What about the one you were hoping to put into updates-testing, soon? yes. soon. > > Broken deps for s390 > > ---------------------------------------------------------- > > systemtap - 0.5.10-1.fc7.s390 requires kernel >= 0:2.6.9-11 > > systemtap-runtime - 0.5.10-1.fc7.s390 requires kernel >= 0:2.6.9-11 > What's up with this? systemtap needs rebuilding to drop 31bit s390. Dave -- http://www.codemonkey.org.uk From pemboa at gmail.com Tue Jan 9 02:25:27 2007 From: pemboa at gmail.com (Arthur Pemberton) Date: Mon, 8 Jan 2007 20:25:27 -0600 Subject: F7 KDE spin In-Reply-To: <45A2BABB.2090902@math.unl.edu> References: <45A2BABB.2090902@math.unl.edu> Message-ID: <16de708d0701081825l33023bd4p818ad14919feae0b@mail.gmail.com> On 1/8/07, Rex Dieter wrote: > OK, I've slapped down a quick-n-dirty laundry list of items off the top > of my head to get started on the F7 KDE spin: > http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Releases/FeatureFedoraKDE > > Folks are welcome to contribute, criticize, add-to. > > -- Rex > I hope you don't mind if I be a bit verbose: * Browser: konqueror Cool. I kinda like the fact that there is no Flash support for Konqueror. I use Seamonkey for my heavy browsing myself. * Irc: konversation Recently switched to this from Chatzilla, I love how well it works * IM: kopete Great application. Good choice. * office: koffice I going to assume that the filters will be part of the spin. If so, good choice. * PDF: KPDF No real preference or dispute here * audio(most): amarok I'm going to assume that the xine engine will also be installed? * Media Burner: K3b Why exactly is K3B under the multimedia section? Burning MP3/Audio CDs is only half of what it could do. * System Cleanup: kleansweep Never heard of it. Will Google eventually * Project management and groupware: Task Juggler * Home user backup? While I am _still_ (I am loosing a lot of time) working on system-config-backup for Fedora. It seems that the KDE way would be http://konserve.sourceforge.net/ Bellow here I would like to put forth other suggests, based on applications currently in use on my desktop * Organizer and Email: Kontact * Photo organisation: Digikam * Photo Editing: Krita (incase not considered as part of KOffice) I would also like to put forward a request that a verbose, clearly worded document on rolling Fedora compatible RPMSs be produced and well publicized. I have attempted several times to read through, and follow accordingly the existing available documents on the topic. I have also received recommendations to read other .spec files. For what ever reason (I have near ruled out my own laziness) I find following the tutorial towards an end to be difficult. I say this (instead of starting a new thread) as I would like to actively start rolling packages that are KDE centric....with mind to Fedora compatible items from kde-look.org. Lastly, I would like to suggest, if the Gtk-QT engine is used, that some exclusion be made for the system-config tools. I think there are multiple benefits in have the system-config tools look different from the persons desktop applications AND yet "universally" alike. Good luck with the KDE spin. Anything towards having me not have to `rpm -e gdm` post Fedora install has my blessings. Peace -- Fedora Core 6 and proud From david at lovesunix.net Tue Jan 9 02:51:56 2007 From: david at lovesunix.net (David Nielsen) Date: Tue, 09 Jan 2007 03:51:56 +0100 Subject: Fedora Core 7 - Compiz vs Beryl In-Reply-To: <45A2A5DE.6070308@mitre.org> References: <20070104212706.44899.qmail@web52412.mail.yahoo.com> <1167957394.2172.46.camel@dragon.valuecommerce.ne.jp> <45A2A5DE.6070308@mitre.org> Message-ID: <1168311116.3309.18.camel@dawkins> man, 08 01 2007 kl. 15:13 -0500, skrev Mark Heslep: > Naoki wrote: > > Compiz is the upstream original, Beryl is a fork. > > > > Compiz uses gconf which is pretty standard and works well with gnome > > obviously, Beryl uses flat file. > > > > Beryl has (had?) some additional plugins, but plugins are being written > > for compiz all the time as well, look at compiz-extras. > > > > Beryl has a theme manager, compiz uses cairo, metacity, or KDE themes. > > > > They look the same to me but Compiz just seems to be the better > > integrated of the two. > > > > > > > Add: > Beryl supports dual head xinerama properly. > Compiz does not. > > Compiz is preferred here otherwise, but no dual head is a show stopper. > > Mark Beryl supports this via a nasty hack as I'm to understand. Dave Reveman opposed including it in Compiz as he was working on a non-hack solution, which is present in the development version of Compiz (currently available in your Fedora Development repo and thus in F7). Ergo, a complete non-issue unless you have bugzilla entries to show me wrong? - David Nielsen -- "Ridicule is the only weapon that can be used against unintelligible propositions. Ideas must be distinct before reason can act upon them.? -Thomas Jefferson -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: signature.asc Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 189 bytes Desc: Dette er en digitalt underskrevet brevdel URL: From arjan at fenrus.demon.nl Tue Jan 9 03:01:17 2007 From: arjan at fenrus.demon.nl (Arjan van de Ven) Date: Mon, 08 Jan 2007 19:01:17 -0800 Subject: rawhide report: 20070108 changes In-Reply-To: <20070109012954.GA12825@redhat.com> References: <200701081113.l08BDBtT029997@hs20-bc2-6.build.redhat.com> <200701081155.25294.lamont@gurulabs.com> <20070109012954.GA12825@redhat.com> Message-ID: <1168311677.3180.134.camel@laptopd505.fenrus.org> > systemtap needs rebuilding to drop 31bit s390. \ does systemtap even work with 2.6.20-rc kernels yet? (last I checked it really didn't) From vonbrand at inf.utfsm.cl Tue Jan 9 03:22:35 2007 From: vonbrand at inf.utfsm.cl (Horst H. von Brand) Date: Tue, 09 Jan 2007 00:22:35 -0300 Subject: rawhide report: 20070107 changes In-Reply-To: Message from sean of "Mon, 08 Jan 2007 22:56:59 CDT." Message-ID: <200701090322.l093MZEe009634@laptop13.inf.utfsm.cl> sean wrote: > sean wrote: > > Horst H. von Brand wrote: > >> sean wrote: > >>> buildsys at redhat.com wrote: > >> > >>>> kernel-2.6.19-1.2905.fc7 > >>>> ------------------------ > >>>> * Sat Jan 06 2007 Dave Jones > >>>> - 2.6.20rc3-git4 > >> > >>> Installing: kernel ####################### [ 3/33] > >>> /sbin/mkinitrd: line 154: 3532 Segmentation fault $ldso --verify > >>> $bin > /dev/null 2>&1 > >>> /sbin/mkinitrd: line 154: 3533 Segmentation fault $ldso --verify > >>> $bin > /dev/null 2>&1 > >>> /sbin/mkinitrd: line 154: 3548 Segmentation fault $ldso --verify > >>> $bin > /dev/null 2>&1 > >>> .......................... > >>> > >>> ??? > >> > >> What mkinitrd is this? What kind of machine? > > mkinitrd-6.0.6-1.x86_64 > > amd64 > FWIW, happened again today with > kernel.x86_64 0:2.6.19-1.2906.fc7 Check your setup, I'd guess your mkinitrd (or some piece it needs) is broken. Or perhaps it just ran out of space? (If so, this is certainly a bug, the error message should be at least halfways intelligible) -- Dr. Horst H. von Brand User #22616 counter.li.org Departamento de Informatica Fono: +56 32 2654431 Universidad Tecnica Federico Santa Maria +56 32 2654239 Casilla 110-V, Valparaiso, Chile Fax: +56 32 2797513 From davej at redhat.com Tue Jan 9 03:33:01 2007 From: davej at redhat.com (Dave Jones) Date: Mon, 8 Jan 2007 22:33:01 -0500 Subject: rawhide report: 20070108 changes In-Reply-To: <1168311677.3180.134.camel@laptopd505.fenrus.org> References: <200701081113.l08BDBtT029997@hs20-bc2-6.build.redhat.com> <200701081155.25294.lamont@gurulabs.com> <20070109012954.GA12825@redhat.com> <1168311677.3180.134.camel@laptopd505.fenrus.org> Message-ID: <20070109033301.GB24010@redhat.com> On Mon, Jan 08, 2007 at 07:01:17PM -0800, Arjan van de Ven wrote: > > > systemtap needs rebuilding to drop 31bit s390. > \ > > does systemtap even work with 2.6.20-rc kernels yet? > (last I checked it really didn't) Absolutely no idea. It's not uncommon for it to be busted off and on in rawhide though, which is a shame as it's a handy tool during development. Dave -- http://www.codemonkey.org.uk From lamont at gurulabs.com Tue Jan 9 04:58:03 2007 From: lamont at gurulabs.com (Lamont Peterson) Date: Mon, 8 Jan 2007 21:58:03 -0700 Subject: F7 KDE spin In-Reply-To: <16de708d0701081825l33023bd4p818ad14919feae0b@mail.gmail.com> References: <45A2BABB.2090902@math.unl.edu> <16de708d0701081825l33023bd4p818ad14919feae0b@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <200701082158.03833.lamont@gurulabs.com> On Monday 08 January 2007 07:25pm, Arthur Pemberton wrote: [snip] > I hope you don't mind if I be a bit verbose: Not at all. As a long time KDE user (also with years of simultaneous Gnome usage), I'd like to give my $/50 in response. > * Browser: konqueror > > Cool. I kinda like the fact that there is no Flash support for > Konqueror. I use Seamonkey for my heavy browsing myself. Huh? I've used (and still do) Flash with Konqueror on some boxes (don't bother others) for years. > * Irc: konversation > > Recently switched to this from Chatzilla, I love how well it works Agree. > * IM: kopete > > Great application. Good choice. Agree. > * office: koffice > > I going to assume that the filters will be part of the spin. If so, good > choice. Love koffice. > * PDF: KPDF > > No real preference or dispute here I prefer kpdf, but I also use Adobe Reader sometimes. > * audio(most): amarok > > I'm going to assume that the xine engine will also be installed? amarok with the xine engine works great here. I'd like to see gstreamer get back in the game, too. I'd also like to see better integration/easier configuration of netaudio. This probably requires more work than just packaging, though. Perhaps some good documentation being included could help. > * Media Burner: K3b > > Why exactly is K3B under the multimedia section? Burning MP3/Audio CDs > is only half of what it could do. No idea. I think it's more a utility than a "multimedia" app. But does "Media Burner:" mean media as in removable media? > * System Cleanup: kleansweep > > Never heard of it. Will Google eventually Same here. > * Project management and groupware: Task Juggler > > * Home user backup? > > While I am _still_ (I am loosing a lot of time) working on > system-config-backup for Fedora. It seems that the KDE way would be > http://konserve.sourceforge.net/ Agree. > Bellow here I would like to put forth other suggests, based on > applications currently in use on my desktop > > * Organizer and Email: Kontact Excellent app. I'm using it right now :) . > * Photo organisation: Digikam > > * Photo Editing: Krita (incase not considered as part of KOffice) I think it is considered part of koffice. It's a good app, though I find I still use gimp sometimes, as it is the best-of-breed app for this category. > I would also like to put forward a request that a verbose, clearly > worded document on rolling Fedora compatible RPMSs be produced and > well publicized. Good idea. > I have attempted several times to read through, and follow accordingly > the existing available documents on the topic. I have also received > recommendations to read other .spec files. For what ever reason (I > have near ruled out my own laziness) I find following the tutorial > towards an end to be difficult. > > I say this (instead of starting a new thread) as I would like to > actively start rolling packages that are KDE centric....with mind to > Fedora compatible items from kde-look.org. That would be excellent. > Lastly, I would like to suggest, if the Gtk-QT engine is used, that > some exclusion be made for the system-config tools. I think there are > multiple benefits in have the system-config tools look different from > the persons desktop applications AND yet "universally" alike. I like that idea. > Good luck with the KDE spin. Anything towards having me not have to > `rpm -e gdm` post Fedora install has my blessings. :) -- Lamont Peterson Senior Instructor Guru Labs, L.C. [ http://www.GuruLabs.com/ ] NOTE: All messages from this email address should be digitally signed with my 0xDC0DD409 GPG key. It is available on the pgp.mit.edu keyserver as well as other keyservers that sync with MIT's. -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 189 bytes Desc: not available URL: From lamont at gurulabs.com Tue Jan 9 04:57:38 2007 From: lamont at gurulabs.com (Lamont Peterson) Date: Mon, 8 Jan 2007 21:57:38 -0700 Subject: F7 KDE spin In-Reply-To: <45A2BABB.2090902@math.unl.edu> References: <45A2BABB.2090902@math.unl.edu> Message-ID: <200701082157.53135.lamont@gurulabs.com> On Monday 08 January 2007 02:42pm, Rex Dieter wrote: > OK, I've slapped down a quick-n-dirty laundry list of items off the top > of my head to get started on the F7 KDE spin: > http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Releases/FeatureFedoraKDE Good times :) . > Folks are welcome to contribute, criticize, add-to. One thing I've wanted to see for a long time is better packaging granularity of some apps in the core set of KDE packages. I don't use all the apps that I have on my system, but in some cases, the current packages require me to install several apps just to get the one or two I want. -- Lamont Peterson Senior Instructor Guru Labs, L.C. [ http://www.GuruLabs.com/ ] NOTE: All messages from this email address should be digitally signed with my 0xDC0DD409 GPG key. It is available on the pgp.mit.edu keyserver as well as other keyservers that sync with MIT's. -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 189 bytes Desc: not available URL: From yanmin_zhang at linux.intel.com Tue Jan 9 05:07:42 2007 From: yanmin_zhang at linux.intel.com (Zhang, Yanmin) Date: Tue, 09 Jan 2007 13:07:42 +0800 Subject: anaconda-runtime error Message-ID: <1168319262.15989.211.camel@ymzhang> I tried to build up a dvd image of ia64 from the latest development tree and got below error. *********************log********************** Scrubbing trees... /tmp/treedir.16491/instimage Compressing .mo files in stage2 images... Creating fontconfig cache Creating debug dir Patching python library... /root/os/buildinstall.tree.16491/upd-instroot: line 1244: cd: /tmp/treedir.16491/image-template/usr/lib/python2.4: No such file or directory script upd-instroot thinks python version is 2.4 while the correct one is 2.5. Below patch against anaconda-11.2.0.7 fixes it. Yanmin --- --- anaconda-11.2.0.7/scripts/upd-instroot 2007-01-07 18:41:51.000000000 -0500 +++ anaconda-11.2.0.7_fix/scripts/upd-instroot 2007-01-07 18:41:21.000000000 -0500 @@ -1241,7 +1241,7 @@ fi echo "Patching python library..." # always use passive mode for ftp installs -cd $DEST/usr/$LIBDIR/python2.4 +cd $DEST/usr/$LIBDIR/python2.5 patch -p0 > /dev/null < References: <45A2BABB.2090902@math.unl.edu> <200701082157.53135.lamont@gurulabs.com> Message-ID: <16de708d0701082118s705a589bh2186eb30822511f4@mail.gmail.com> On 1/8/07, Lamont Peterson wrote: > On Monday 08 January 2007 02:42pm, Rex Dieter wrote: > > OK, I've slapped down a quick-n-dirty laundry list of items off the top > > of my head to get started on the F7 KDE spin: > > http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Releases/FeatureFedoraKDE > > Good times :) . > > > Folks are welcome to contribute, criticize, add-to. > > One thing I've wanted to see for a long time is better packaging granularity > of some apps in the core set of KDE packages. I don't use all the apps that > I have on my system, but in some cases, the current packages require me to > install several apps just to get the one or two I want. Fair suggestions - in my case however, I don't see this as a problem since every now and then I go about exploring my install finding new applications. -- Fedora Core 6 and proud From chitlesh at fedoraproject.org Tue Jan 9 05:36:59 2007 From: chitlesh at fedoraproject.org (Chitlesh GOORAH) Date: Tue, 9 Jan 2007 06:36:59 +0100 Subject: F7 KDE spin In-Reply-To: <200701082157.53135.lamont@gurulabs.com> References: <45A2BABB.2090902@math.unl.edu> <200701082157.53135.lamont@gurulabs.com> Message-ID: <13dbfe4f0701082136y5c091a84yfba51916e8c126f8@mail.gmail.com> On 1/9/07, Lamont Peterson wrote: > One thing I've wanted to see for a long time is better packaging granularity > of some apps in the core set of KDE packages. I don't use all the apps that > I have on my system, but in some cases, the current packages require me to > install several apps just to get the one or two I want. This is something I would like to see as well :) Chitlesh -- http://clunixchit.blogspot.com From peter at thecodergeek.com Tue Jan 9 06:27:08 2007 From: peter at thecodergeek.com (Peter Gordon) Date: Mon, 08 Jan 2007 22:27:08 -0800 Subject: [offtopic] Ignacio Vazquez-Abrams In-Reply-To: <45A2B9D0.5010903@mharris.ca> References: <16de708d0608282246x7b7a1eabi89e782f085efe636@mail.gmail.com> <16de708d0612220054h59fcd7f4u7b3182a095e531ae@mail.gmail.com> <1166840792.2463.1.camel@averatec> <45A2B9D0.5010903@mharris.ca> Message-ID: <1168324028.16847.3.camel@localhost> On Mon, 2007-01-08 at 16:38 -0500, Mike A. Harris wrote: > I found a secondary mail address for him: ignacio at fastmail.ca > I sent him an email just a few minutes ago. If I hear anything back, > or it bounces, I'll pass along the info. Great news. I hope he's doing well. :O -- Peter Gordon (codergeek42) / FSF Associate Member #5015 GnuPG Public Key ID: 0xFFC19479 / Fingerprint: DD68 A414 56BD 6368 D957 9666 4268 CB7A FFC1 9479 My Blog: http://thecodergeek.com/blog/ -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: signature.asc Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 189 bytes Desc: This is a digitally signed message part URL: From pemboa at gmail.com Tue Jan 9 07:06:48 2007 From: pemboa at gmail.com (Arthur Pemberton) Date: Wed, 10 Jan 2007 01:06:48 +1800 Subject: Dependancy: gphoto2 Message-ID: <16de708d0701082306y79923cb3h3a54e4ee74ba8841@mail.gmail.com> I would like to submit this dependancy I noticed while attempting to remove packages that I do not use: [root at Watson ~]# rpm -e gphoto2 error: Failed dependencies: libgphoto2.so.2 is needed by (installed) sane-backends-1.0.18-5.fc6.i386 libgphoto2.so.2 is needed by (installed) sane-backends-libs-1.0.18-5.fc6.i386 libgphoto2.so.2 is needed by (installed) sane-frontends-1.0.14-1.2.2.i386 libgphoto2.so.2 is needed by (installed) digikam-0.8.2-3.fc6.i386 libgphoto2.so.2 is needed by (installed) kdegraphics-3.5.5-0.1.fc6.i386 libgphoto2.so.2 is needed by (installed) xsane-0.991-4.fc6.i386 libgphoto2.so.2 is needed by (installed) xsane-gimp-0.991-4.fc6.i386 libgphoto2_port.so.0 is needed by (installed) sane-backends-1.0.18-5.fc6.i386 libgphoto2_port.so.0 is needed by (installed) sane-backends-libs-1.0.18-5.fc6.i386 libgphoto2_port.so.0 is needed by (installed) sane-frontends-1.0.14-1.2.2.i386 libgphoto2_port.so.0 is needed by (installed) digikam-0.8.2-3.fc6.i386 libgphoto2_port.so.0 is needed by (installed) kdegraphics-3.5.5-0.1.fc6.i386 libgphoto2_port.so.0 is needed by (installed) xsane-0.991-4.fc6.i386 libgphoto2_port.so.0 is needed by (installed) xsane-gimp-0.991-4.fc6.i386 I don't use gphoto2, I use digikam. Is it that the rpm needs to be split into gphoto2 and libgphoto2? Peace -- Fedora Core 6 and proud From pemboa at gmail.com Tue Jan 9 07:09:53 2007 From: pemboa at gmail.com (Arthur Pemberton) Date: Wed, 10 Jan 2007 01:09:53 +1800 Subject: Dependancy: gphoto2 [retract] Message-ID: <16de708d0701082309x1956c72eicab8afdb5ee62613@mail.gmail.com> My apologizes, I misread the project page of gphoto2. I was thinking fspot when I skimmed the page. Disregard my original email/report. Peace. -- Fedora Core 6 and proud From fedora at leemhuis.info Tue Jan 9 07:22:32 2007 From: fedora at leemhuis.info (Thorsten Leemhuis) Date: Tue, 09 Jan 2007 08:22:32 +0100 Subject: rawhide report: 20070108 changes In-Reply-To: <1168305395.3159.84.camel@vader.jdub.homelinux.org> References: <200701081113.l08BDBtT029997@hs20-bc2-6.build.redhat.com> <200701081155.25294.lamont@gurulabs.com> <1168305395.3159.84.camel@vader.jdub.homelinux.org> Message-ID: <45A342B8.4020706@leemhuis.info> On 09.01.2007 02:16, Josh Boyer wrote: > On Mon, 2007-01-08 at 11:55 -0700, Lamont Peterson wrote: >> On Monday 08 January 2007 04:13am, buildsys at redhat.com wrote: >>> Updated Packages: >> [snip] >>> kernel-2.6.19-1.2906.fc7 >>> ------------------------ >>> * Sun Jan 07 2007 Dave Jones >>> - 2.6.20rc4 >> So, Dave ... >> 1. Is this a 2.6.19 or 2.6.20 kernel (or that changelog entry a typo)? > 2.6.20rc4 He can't increment the version to 2.6.20 until the official > release because of RPM NVR rules. E.g. 2.6.20rc4 > 2.6.20 Sure he can -- we even have rules for that; those suggest to call it 2.6.20 even afaics: http://www.fedoraproject.org/wiki/Packaging/NamingGuidelines#head-d97a3f40b6dd9d2288206ac9bd8f1bf9b791b22a If I would review the kernel for the extras merge I'd say "fix this". But I suspect davej won't like to call the kernels 2.6.20 (e.g. 2.6.20-1.2906.rc4.fc7 for example) before they are actually 2.6.20. This will be one of the problem areas we'll probably have to deal with when it comes to reviewing Core packages for the Extras merge. CU thl From sundaram at fedoraproject.org Tue Jan 9 07:55:15 2007 From: sundaram at fedoraproject.org (Rahul Sundaram) Date: Tue, 09 Jan 2007 13:25:15 +0530 Subject: F7 KDE spin In-Reply-To: <16de708d0701081825l33023bd4p818ad14919feae0b@mail.gmail.com> References: <45A2BABB.2090902@math.unl.edu> <16de708d0701081825l33023bd4p818ad14919feae0b@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <45A34A63.4090502@fedoraproject.org> Arthur Pemberton wrote: > * Home user backup? > > While I am _still_ (I am loosing a lot of time) working on > system-config-backup for Fedora. It seems that the KDE way would be > http://konserve.sourceforge.net/ Fedora already has PyBackPack under review now which serves the same purpose " A GTK+ application written in Python to backup and restore files onto CDR, USB stick or SSH host. This was produced for the Fedora Project as part of the Google Summer of Code program, working under Elliot Lee." Rahul From thuforuk at yahoo.co.uk Tue Jan 9 09:05:54 2007 From: thuforuk at yahoo.co.uk (Dariusz J. Garbowski) Date: Tue, 09 Jan 2007 09:05:54 +0000 Subject: F7 KDE spin In-Reply-To: <200701082158.03833.lamont@gurulabs.com> References: <45A2BABB.2090902@math.unl.edu> <16de708d0701081825l33023bd4p818ad14919feae0b@mail.gmail.com> <200701082158.03833.lamont@gurulabs.com> Message-ID: <45A35AF2.2030500@yahoo.co.uk> On 01/09/2007 04:58 AM, Lamont Peterson wrote: > On Monday 08 January 2007 07:25pm, Arthur Pemberton wrote: >> Lastly, I would like to suggest, if the Gtk-QT engine is used, that >> some exclusion be made for the system-config tools. I think there are >> multiple benefits in have the system-config tools look different from >> the persons desktop applications AND yet "universally" alike. > > I like that idea. I don't. I like to be able to set fonts, colours, look&feel, etc. once and for all apps and not having to scratch my head where on earth do I do that for applications that for some reason do not obey my settings. Q: How would I do that for system-config anyway then? Arthur, can you elaborate on the benefits? Regards, Dariusz Send instant messages to your online friends http://uk.messenger.yahoo.com From gilboad at gmail.com Tue Jan 9 10:06:50 2007 From: gilboad at gmail.com (Gilboa Davara) Date: Tue, 09 Jan 2007 12:06:50 +0200 Subject: F7 KDE spin In-Reply-To: <45A2BABB.2090902@math.unl.edu> References: <45A2BABB.2090902@math.unl.edu> Message-ID: <1168337210.26164.7.camel@gilboa-work-dev.localdomain> On Mon, 2007-01-08 at 15:42 -0600, Rex Dieter wrote: > OK, I've slapped down a quick-n-dirty laundry list of items off the top > of my head to get started on the F7 KDE spin: > http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Releases/FeatureFedoraKDE > > Folks are welcome to contribute, criticize, add-to. > > -- Rex > Hello Rex, Package set (outside of the usual kde* set) Brainstorm ideas for package inclusion in spin. These need not be installed by default. * System: kiosktool knetworkmanager Add kdebluetooth. * non-kde pkgs: firefox, openoffice.org Add evolution. (Required if you need good exchange integration) * kdm/login (Artwork) Will kdm get the same look and feel (read, branding) as the gdm counter-part? - Gilboa From kevin.kofler at chello.at Tue Jan 9 11:06:46 2007 From: kevin.kofler at chello.at (Kevin Kofler) Date: Tue, 9 Jan 2007 11:06:46 +0000 (UTC) Subject: F7 KDE spin References: <45A2BABB.2090902@math.unl.edu> <1168337210.26164.7.camel@gilboa-work-dev.localdomain> Message-ID: Gilboa Davara gmail.com> writes: > * non-kde pkgs: firefox, openoffice.org > Add evolution. (Required if you need good exchange integration) Then we end up with 90% of GNOME in the KDE spin... Kevin Kofler From pertusus at free.fr Tue Jan 9 11:12:29 2007 From: pertusus at free.fr (Patrice Dumas) Date: Tue, 9 Jan 2007 12:12:29 +0100 Subject: F7 KDE spin In-Reply-To: References: <45A2BABB.2090902@math.unl.edu> <1168337210.26164.7.camel@gilboa-work-dev.localdomain> Message-ID: <20070109111229.GB2581@free.fr> On Tue, Jan 09, 2007 at 11:06:46AM +0000, Kevin Kofler wrote: > Gilboa Davara gmail.com> writes: > > * non-kde pkgs: firefox, openoffice.org > > Add evolution. (Required if you need good exchange integration) > > Then we end up with 90% of GNOME in the KDE spin... firefox and openoffice.org are not gnome apps. The corresponding gnome apps are epiphany and abiword for ooffice (to my knowledge). -- Pat From buildsys at redhat.com Tue Jan 9 11:17:43 2007 From: buildsys at redhat.com (buildsys at redhat.com) Date: Tue, 9 Jan 2007 06:17:43 -0500 Subject: rawhide report: 20070109 changes Message-ID: <200701091117.l09BHhvM004765@hs20-bc2-6.build.redhat.com> New package fast-user-switch-applet A panel applet for user-switching Updated Packages: autofs-1:5.0.1-0.rc3.3 ---------------------- * Tue Jan 09 2007 Ian Kent - 5.0.1-0.rc3.3 - remove redundant rpath link option (prep for move to Extras). * Tue Jan 09 2007 Ian Kent - 5.0.1-0.rc3.1 - consolidate to rc3. - fix typo in Fix typo in var when removing temp directory (bz 221847). binutils-2.17.50.0.9-1 ---------------------- * Mon Jan 08 2007 Jakub Jelinek 2.17.50.0.9-1 - update to 2.17.50.0.9 - fix tekhex reader bzip2-1.0.4-1.fc7 ----------------- * Mon Jan 08 2007 Ivana Varekova 1.0.4-1 - update to 1.0.4 - spec file cleanup cpuspeed-1:1.2.1-1.48.fc7 ------------------------- * Mon Jan 08 2007 Jarod Wilson - Let non-centrino/powernow-k8 systems also use other validated governors (#219926) - Fix cpuspeed daemon options settings (#221829) dovecot-1.0-2.rc17.fc7 ---------------------- * Mon Jan 08 2007 Tomas Janousek - 1.0-2.rc17 - update to latest upstream, fixes a few bugs * Thu Dec 21 2006 Tomas Janousek - 1.0-1.1.rc15 - reenabled GSSAPI (#220377) evolution-2.9.5-1.fc7 --------------------- * Tue Jan 08 2008 Matthew Barnes - 2.9.5-1.fc7 - Update to 2.9.5 - Remove pilot-link-0.12 patch (fixed upstream). - Remove patch for RH bug #215466 and #218589 (fixed upstream). - Remove patch for RH bug #215695 (fixed upstream). * Sat Dec 30 2006 Matthew Barnes - 2.9.4-4.fc7 - Add Requires evolution-data-server-devel to devel subpackage (RH bug #218889). * Thu Dec 21 2006 Matthew Barnes - 2.9.4-3.fc7 - Add patch for RH bug #218898 (viewing message source). evolution-connector-2.9.5-1.fc7 ------------------------------- * Mon Jan 08 2007 Matthew Barnes - 2.9.5-1.fc7 - Update to 2.9.5 - Remove patch for GNOME bug #357660 (fixed upstream). evolution-data-server-1.9.5-1.fc7 --------------------------------- * Mon Jan 08 2007 Matthew Barnes - 1.9.5-1.fc7 - Update to 1.9.5 - Remove patch for GNOME bug #362638 (fixed upstream). - Remove patch for GNOME bug #387638 (fixed upstream). fonts-arabic-2.0-4.fc7 ---------------------- * Tue Jan 09 2007 Parag Nemade - 2.0-4 - Resolved:bug rh#221385 PakTypeTehreer.ttf contains a space in PS name (Parag Nemade) gawk-3.1.5-12.fc6 ----------------- * Mon Jan 08 2007 Karel Zak 3.1.5-12 - fix #221827 - double free or corruption (patch from upstream) gcc-4.1.1-53 ------------ * Tue Jan 09 2007 Jakub Jelinek 4.1.1-53 - fix libgomp testsuite driver (Ulrich Weigand) - combiner fixes (Richard Sandiford, PR rtl-optimization/25514, PR rtl-optimization/27736) gnome-python2-2.17.2-1.fc7 -------------------------- * Mon Jan 08 2007 Matthew Barnes - 2.17.2-1 - Update to 2.17.2 * Sun Jan 07 2007 Matthew Barnes - 2.17.1-1 - Update to 2.17.1 * Sun Dec 31 2006 Matthew Barnes - 2.16.2-5 - Bonobo subpackage requires pyorbit >= 2.0.1, not 2.0.l (RH bug #150885). gnome-python2-desktop-2.17.3-1.fc7 ---------------------------------- * Mon Jan 08 2007 Matthew Barnes - 2.17.3-1 - Update to 2.17.3 gtkhtml3-3.13.5-1.fc7 --------------------- * Mon Jan 08 2007 Matthew Barnes - 3.13.5-1.fc7 - Update to 3.13.5 * Mon Jan 08 2007 Matthew Barnes - 3.13.4-2.fc7 - Add patch for GNOME bug #394182 (code cleanup). - Remove patch for GNOME bug #363036 (superseded). hal-cups-utils-0.6.5-1.fc7 -------------------------- * Mon Jan 08 2007 Tim Waugh 0.6.5-1 - Requires system-config-printer >= 0.7.46. - 0.6.5: - Set PPD page size before adding printer (bug #221841). libsoup-2.2.99-1.fc7 -------------------- * Mon Jan 08 2007 Matthew Barnes - 2.2.99-1 - Update to 2.2.99 m17n-db-1.3.4-1.fc7 ------------------- * Mon Jan 08 2007 Mayank Jain - Resolves: Bug 221794 - Rebased to new release m17n-db-1.3.4 - Removed patch: si-wijesekera_surrounding_to_preedit.patch - Added directive to delete si-wijesekera from the upstream tarball as it used surrounding text - Commented directive to copy bopo-kbd.mim - Commented directive using variable.mim and command.mim - added global.mim in place of them - Added sections for new Uyghur. - Added copy directive for Mizuochi (grc-*) keymap for classical greek - Added directives to install translations for japanese translations. - Added patch to rename si-wijesekera-preedit to si-wijesekera and add key summary as Patch2 ntp-4.2.4-1.fc7 --------------- * Mon Jan 08 2007 Miroslav Lichvar 4.2.4-1 - update to 4.2.4 (#146884) - don't use local clock in default config - autogenerate man pages from HTML - clean up spec a bit openoffice.org-1:2.1.0-6.11 --------------------------- * Sat Jan 06 2007 Caolan McNamara - 1:2.1.0-6.11 - Resolves: rhbz#221491 openoffice.org-2.1.0.ooo73201.sw.a11yloadcrash.patch system-config-printer-0.7.46-1.fc7 ---------------------------------- * Mon Jan 08 2007 Tim Waugh 0.7.46-1 - 0.7.46: - Fixed page size problem (bug #221702). - Added 'ro' to ALL_LINGUAS. vim-2:7.0.178-3 --------------- * Mon Jan 08 2007 Karsten Hopp 7.0.178-3 - enable filetype plugin vnc-4.1.2-9.fc7 --------------- * Mon Jan 08 2007 Adam Tkac 4.1.2-9.fc7 - enable render extensions by default on s390 & s390x xorg-x11-xkb-utils-1.0.2-3.fc7 ------------------------------ * Mon Jan 08 2007 Adam Jackson 1.0.2-3 - From OLPC: jam -DHAVE_STRCASECMP into CFLAGS to make xkbcomp (and therefore X server startup) slightly less painfully slow. yum-metadata-parser-1.0.3-1.fc7 ------------------------------- * Mon Jan 08 2007 Jeremy Katz - 1.0.3-1 - update to 1.0.3 Broken deps for s390 ---------------------------------------------------------- systemtap - 0.5.10-1.fc7.s390 requires kernel >= 0:2.6.9-11 systemtap-runtime - 0.5.10-1.fc7.s390 requires kernel >= 0:2.6.9-11 From hughsient at gmail.com Tue Jan 9 11:27:08 2007 From: hughsient at gmail.com (Richard Hughes) Date: Tue, 9 Jan 2007 11:27:08 +0000 Subject: rawhide report: 20070109 changes In-Reply-To: <200701091117.l09BHhvM004765@hs20-bc2-6.build.redhat.com> References: <200701091117.l09BHhvM004765@hs20-bc2-6.build.redhat.com> Message-ID: <15e53e180701090327o3dce4c27ia3d3f4acb30f15f7@mail.gmail.com> On 09/01/07, buildsys at redhat.com wrote: > New package fast-user-switch-applet > A panel applet for user-switching This uses ConsoleKit, right? Richard. From jwboyer at jdub.homelinux.org Tue Jan 9 11:47:13 2007 From: jwboyer at jdub.homelinux.org (Josh Boyer) Date: Tue, 09 Jan 2007 05:47:13 -0600 Subject: rawhide report: 20070108 changes In-Reply-To: <45A342B8.4020706@leemhuis.info> References: <200701081113.l08BDBtT029997@hs20-bc2-6.build.redhat.com> <200701081155.25294.lamont@gurulabs.com> <1168305395.3159.84.camel@vader.jdub.homelinux.org> <45A342B8.4020706@leemhuis.info> Message-ID: <1168343233.3159.90.camel@vader.jdub.homelinux.org> On Tue, 2007-01-09 at 08:22 +0100, Thorsten Leemhuis wrote: > On 09.01.2007 02:16, Josh Boyer wrote: > > On Mon, 2007-01-08 at 11:55 -0700, Lamont Peterson wrote: > >> On Monday 08 January 2007 04:13am, buildsys at redhat.com wrote: > >>> Updated Packages: > >> [snip] > >>> kernel-2.6.19-1.2906.fc7 > >>> ------------------------ > >>> * Sun Jan 07 2007 Dave Jones > >>> - 2.6.20rc4 > >> So, Dave ... > >> 1. Is this a 2.6.19 or 2.6.20 kernel (or that changelog entry a typo)? > > 2.6.20rc4 He can't increment the version to 2.6.20 until the official > > release because of RPM NVR rules. E.g. 2.6.20rc4 > 2.6.20 > > Sure he can -- we even have rules for that; those suggest to call it > 2.6.20 even afaics: > http://www.fedoraproject.org/wiki/Packaging/NamingGuidelines#head-d97a3f40b6dd9d2288206ac9bd8f1bf9b791b22a Hm, I had very much forgotten about that. > If I would review the kernel for the extras merge I'd say "fix this". > But I suspect davej won't like to call the kernels 2.6.20 (e.g. > 2.6.20-1.2906.rc4.fc7 for example) before they are actually 2.6.20 Neither would I. It's not 2.6.20. It's 2.6.19 + patches. :) > This will be one of the problem areas we'll probably have to deal with > when it comes to reviewing Core packages for the Extras merge. Perhaps. Maybe we'll come to some sort of agreement fairly quickly. josh From fedora at leemhuis.info Tue Jan 9 12:03:30 2007 From: fedora at leemhuis.info (Thorsten Leemhuis) Date: Tue, 09 Jan 2007 13:03:30 +0100 Subject: rawhide report: 20070108 changes In-Reply-To: <1168343233.3159.90.camel@vader.jdub.homelinux.org> References: <200701081113.l08BDBtT029997@hs20-bc2-6.build.redhat.com> <200701081155.25294.lamont@gurulabs.com> <1168305395.3159.84.camel@vader.jdub.homelinux.org> <45A342B8.4020706@leemhuis.info> <1168343233.3159.90.camel@vader.jdub.homelinux.org> Message-ID: <45A38492.2080904@leemhuis.info> On 09.01.2007 12:47, Josh Boyer wrote: >> If I would review the kernel for the extras merge I'd say "fix this". >> But I suspect davej won't like to call the kernels 2.6.20 (e.g. >> 2.6.20-1.2906.rc4.fc7 for example) before they are actually 2.6.20 > Neither would I. It's not 2.6.20. It's 2.6.19 + patches. :) It's called 2.6.20-rcX upstream, so we should IMHO be able to call it something similar, too. I further think the current kernel's naming scheme is quite confusing. Especially the part that makes 2.6.20-rcX kernels output "2.6.19-foo" from "uname -r" --> that now and then confuses external kmods that check for the kernel release during "configure" or similar scripts. They due to that might not build -> okay, I can live with that and fix it myself. But if can lead to silent breakage, too, if some "ifdef'ed" workarounds for newer kernels don't get applied. >> This will be one of the problem areas we'll probably have to deal with >> when it comes to reviewing Core packages for the Extras merge. > Perhaps. Maybe we'll come to some sort of agreement fairly quickly. Optimist :-) CU thl From vonbrand at inf.utfsm.cl Tue Jan 9 12:04:54 2007 From: vonbrand at inf.utfsm.cl (Horst H. von Brand) Date: Tue, 09 Jan 2007 09:04:54 -0300 Subject: rawhide report: 20070109 changes In-Reply-To: Message from buildsys@redhat.com of "Tue, 09 Jan 2007 06:17:43 CDT." <200701091117.l09BHhvM004765@hs20-bc2-6.build.redhat.com> Message-ID: <200701091204.l09C4sQ3004260@laptop13.inf.utfsm.cl> buildsys at redhat.com wrote: > autofs-1:5.0.1-0.rc3.3 > ---------------------- > * Tue Jan 09 2007 Ian Kent - 5.0.1-0.rc3.3 > - remove redundant rpath link option (prep for move to Extras). ^^^^^^ Huh? -- Dr. Horst H. von Brand User #22616 counter.li.org Departamento de Informatica Fono: +56 32 2654431 Universidad Tecnica Federico Santa Maria +56 32 2654239 Casilla 110-V, Valparaiso, Chile Fax: +56 32 2797513 From fedora at wir-sind-cool.org Tue Jan 9 12:15:58 2007 From: fedora at wir-sind-cool.org (Michael Schwendt) Date: Tue, 9 Jan 2007 13:15:58 +0100 Subject: rawhide report: 20070109 changes In-Reply-To: <200701091204.l09C4sQ3004260@laptop13.inf.utfsm.cl> References: <200701091117.l09BHhvM004765@hs20-bc2-6.build.redhat.com> <200701091204.l09C4sQ3004260@laptop13.inf.utfsm.cl> Message-ID: <20070109131558.d7be4cb2.fedora@wir-sind-cool.org> On Tue, 09 Jan 2007 09:04:54 -0300, Horst H. von Brand wrote: > buildsys wrote: > > autofs-1:5.0.1-0.rc3.3 > > ---------------------- > > * Tue Jan 09 2007 Ian Kent - 5.0.1-0.rc3.3 > > - remove redundant rpath link option (prep for move to Extras). > ^^^^^^ > Huh? Jargon for the Core+Extras merge, where Core packages are moved to the external Fedora infrastructure and merged with the existing Extras stuff. From vonbrand at inf.utfsm.cl Tue Jan 9 12:26:25 2007 From: vonbrand at inf.utfsm.cl (Horst H. von Brand) Date: Tue, 09 Jan 2007 09:26:25 -0300 Subject: rawhide report: 20070109 changes In-Reply-To: Message from Michael Schwendt of "Tue, 09 Jan 2007 13:15:58 BST." <20070109131558.d7be4cb2.fedora@wir-sind-cool.org> Message-ID: <200701091226.l09CQPnO004766@laptop13.inf.utfsm.cl> Michael Schwendt wrote: > On Tue, 09 Jan 2007 09:04:54 -0300, Horst H. von Brand wrote: > > > buildsys wrote: > > > autofs-1:5.0.1-0.rc3.3 > > > ---------------------- > > > * Tue Jan 09 2007 Ian Kent - 5.0.1-0.rc3.3 > > > - remove redundant rpath link option (prep for move to Extras). > > ^^^^^^ > > Huh? > Jargon for the Core+Extras merge, where Core packages are moved > to the external Fedora infrastructure and merged with the existing > Extras stuff. Bad jargon. Better say "Prepare for Extras merge" or some such. The %changelog entries will stay for a /long/ time, besides adding to the current confusion surrounding the merge isn't such a good idea. [But what do I say... I was almost flamed off the face of Earth for calling core+extras "Fedora" here, not so long ago... :-] -- Dr. Horst H. von Brand User #22616 counter.li.org Departamento de Informatica Fono: +56 32 2654431 Universidad Tecnica Federico Santa Maria +56 32 2654239 Casilla 110-V, Valparaiso, Chile Fax: +56 32 2797513 From linville at redhat.com Tue Jan 9 13:12:59 2007 From: linville at redhat.com (John W. Linville) Date: Tue, 9 Jan 2007 08:12:59 -0500 Subject: F7 KDE spin In-Reply-To: <1168337210.26164.7.camel@gilboa-work-dev.localdomain> References: <45A2BABB.2090902@math.unl.edu> <1168337210.26164.7.camel@gilboa-work-dev.localdomain> Message-ID: <20070109131258.GA31928@redhat.com> On Tue, Jan 09, 2007 at 12:06:50PM +0200, Gilboa Davara wrote: > On Mon, 2007-01-08 at 15:42 -0600, Rex Dieter wrote: > * System: kiosktool knetworkmanager > Add kdebluetooth. ACK -- John W. Linville linville at redhat.com From jkeating at redhat.com Tue Jan 9 13:15:10 2007 From: jkeating at redhat.com (Jesse Keating) Date: Tue, 9 Jan 2007 08:15:10 -0500 Subject: rawhide report: 20070108 changes In-Reply-To: <45A342B8.4020706@leemhuis.info> References: <200701081113.l08BDBtT029997@hs20-bc2-6.build.redhat.com> <1168305395.3159.84.camel@vader.jdub.homelinux.org> <45A342B8.4020706@leemhuis.info> Message-ID: <200701090815.10970.jkeating@redhat.com> On Tuesday 09 January 2007 02:22, Thorsten Leemhuis wrote: > If I would review the kernel for the extras merge I'd say "fix this". > But I suspect davej won't like to call the kernels 2.6.20 (e.g. > 2.6.20-1.2906.rc4.fc7 for example) before they are actually 2.6.20. > > This will be one of the problem areas we'll probably have to deal with > when it comes to reviewing Core packages for the Extras merge. Personally, I'm all for giving the kernel a pass on this and some of the other... interesting things in the spec. That is, unless the reviewer not only complains about something in the spec, but also produces a viable rework of what the spec is trying to accomplish. The kernel is one of our speshul packages that really does need some special consideration. -- Jesse Keating Release Engineer: Fedora -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 189 bytes Desc: not available URL: From gilboad at gmail.com Tue Jan 9 13:27:10 2007 From: gilboad at gmail.com (Gilboa Davara) Date: Tue, 09 Jan 2007 15:27:10 +0200 Subject: F7 KDE spin In-Reply-To: References: <45A2BABB.2090902@math.unl.edu> <1168337210.26164.7.camel@gilboa-work-dev.localdomain> Message-ID: <1168349230.26164.19.camel@gilboa-work-dev.localdomain> On Tue, 2007-01-09 at 11:06 +0000, Kevin Kofler wrote: > Gilboa Davara gmail.com> writes: > > * non-kde pkgs: firefox, openoffice.org > > Add evolution. (Required if you need good exchange integration) > > Then we end up with 90% of GNOME in the KDE spin... Out of the list above only evolution is "GNOME". (And given the its history, even evolution isn't really a GNOME application.) In the GNOME world Epiphany is the browser and Abiword/Gnumeric is the office package. Hopefully by the time KDE 4/KOffice 2.0 are released, koffice/kmail/konq will be able to replace OO/Evo/firefox. - Gilboa From buc at odusz.so-cdu.ru Tue Jan 9 14:26:39 2007 From: buc at odusz.so-cdu.ru (Dmitry Butskoy) Date: Tue, 09 Jan 2007 17:26:39 +0300 Subject: mozilla to seamonkey switch... Message-ID: <45A3A61F.6050306@odu.neva.ru> After the recent switch from "mozilla-1.7.13" to "seamonkey-1.0.7" there are a lot of troubles. I just have tried it and "mozilla -mail" launches browser instead of mail, all my mail accounts had disappeared after the update, when invoked from cmdline I see "grep: cannot find libc.so.6 library", etc... Where the correspond bugs should be reported in bugzilla? There is no "seamonkey" component under "Fedora Core" item... Dmitry Butskoy http://www.fedoraproject.org/wiki/DmitryButskoy P.S. And it is painful enough to see "bubbles in water" instead of old kind "red dragon" in the application which is used more than half time of all the computer work for years... :( From rdieter at math.unl.edu Tue Jan 9 14:45:22 2007 From: rdieter at math.unl.edu (Rex Dieter) Date: Tue, 09 Jan 2007 08:45:22 -0600 Subject: 'file' rpm maintainer, awol? References: <20070109022104.31596.54612@extras64.linux.duke.edu> Message-ID: Fedora Extras repoclosure wrote: > rdieter AT math.unl.edu ... > gift - 0.11.8.1-6.fc7.i386 (71 days) See also: http://bugzilla.redhat.com/221041 Has the 'file' maintainer dropped off the planet or something? This is blocking on http://bugzilla.redhat.com/203548 http://bugzilla.redhat.com/214992 with the former reported last *August 2006*, without a single comment/reply from the maintainer. -- Rex From jeff at ocjtech.us Tue Jan 9 15:00:55 2007 From: jeff at ocjtech.us (Jeffrey C. Ollie) Date: Tue, 09 Jan 2007 09:00:55 -0600 Subject: rawhide report: 20070108 changes In-Reply-To: <45A38492.2080904@leemhuis.info> References: <200701081113.l08BDBtT029997@hs20-bc2-6.build.redhat.com> <200701081155.25294.lamont@gurulabs.com> <1168305395.3159.84.camel@vader.jdub.homelinux.org> <45A342B8.4020706@leemhuis.info> <1168343233.3159.90.camel@vader.jdub.homelinux.org> <45A38492.2080904@leemhuis.info> Message-ID: <1168354855.3578.6.camel@lt21223.campus.dmacc.edu> On Tue, 2007-01-09 at 13:03 +0100, Thorsten Leemhuis wrote: > On 09.01.2007 12:47, Josh Boyer wrote: > >> If I would review the kernel for the extras merge I'd say "fix this". > >> But I suspect davej won't like to call the kernels 2.6.20 (e.g. > >> 2.6.20-1.2906.rc4.fc7 for example) before they are actually 2.6.20 > > Neither would I. It's not 2.6.20. It's 2.6.19 + patches. :) > > It's called 2.6.20-rcX upstream, so we should IMHO be able to call it > something similar, too. If you look a the kernel .spec you will see that there is "linux-2.6.19.tar.bz2" plus "patch-2.6.20-rc4.bz2". So the RPM version is reflecting the fact that it's the 2.6.19 plus patches. Jeff -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: signature.asc Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 189 bytes Desc: This is a digitally signed message part URL: From rdieter at math.unl.edu Tue Jan 9 15:02:24 2007 From: rdieter at math.unl.edu (Rex Dieter) Date: Tue, 09 Jan 2007 09:02:24 -0600 Subject: mozilla to seamonkey switch... References: <45A3A61F.6050306@odu.neva.ru> Message-ID: Dmitry Butskoy wrote: > After the recent switch from "mozilla-1.7.13" to "seamonkey-1.0.7" there > are a lot of troubles. > I just have tried it and "mozilla -mail" launches browser instead of > mail Could be a problem similar to the long-standing rhel4 issue: http://bugzilla.redhat.com/204139 Mostly just a typo/thinko in the mozilla-rebuild-databases.pl %post scriptlet -- Rex From pmr at pajato.com Tue Jan 9 15:08:37 2007 From: pmr at pajato.com (Paul Michael Reilly) Date: Tue, 09 Jan 2007 10:08:37 -0500 Subject: Fedora 7 Message-ID: <45A3AFF5.7050004@pajato.com> Warren Togami wrote: > Jason L Tibbitts III wrote: >> >> So? My comments weren't about gnome versus kde. I have no reason to >> expect other than that portions of the project which receive the >> greater number of developers from wherever in the community will make >> the most progress. My comments are about whether Red Hat plans to be >> just a part of the community, and your comments seem to answer than in >> the negative. Which is directly contradictory to what other folks >> from Red Hat have been saying. >> > > More broadly... Fedora is not a democracy. > > Fedora is a meritocracy. > > Those who have done good work and the respect of their peers gain > greater credibility in the project. These people who have earned trust > from others exist at varying levels within the organization help to make > decisions. > > Red Hat employees just happen to have many inputs into the Fedora > Project as part of their regular jobs. > > One issue however that I see with this, is historic lack of > inter-communication between the RH Desktop team and the community. The > recent explosion on fedora-art-list is a salient example of this kind of > conflict. A perceived corporate "outsider" who had not attempted to > participate in the community prior, appeared suddenly with a > heavy-handed power play, attempting to subvert the already in-progress > community process. I did not appreciate David's attitude in that > instance, and I think David has blown his response in this thread out of > proportion. > > Really, please folks, just calm down. > > Fedora Desktop and Fedora KDE spins. Is that really so bad? Speaking from a community perspective, YES. And I personally thought that Rahul captured my feelings exactly when he said, "It would be consistent to have something like Fedora Desktop (GNOME edition) and Fedora Desktop (KDE edition) It's confusing and discriminatory to call one of the spins as the desktop when you have more (which is likely to increase) than one desktop oriented spins." But I will note that the RH Desktop team (I am assuming this is for the most part the Fedora Desktop team as well) has given little more than lip service to Rahul's message. They have certainly not conveyed any message along the lines, "He's got a point there, Judge..." to the community, as heard by this community member. Rather, the message I get over and over again is that the current Fedora desktop crew is rather enamored with the "Fedora Desktop" spin and is not about to let go of it, no matter how reasonable and sensible an action that might be when viewed from 35,000 feet. And just to make sure there is not a lack of communication between the community (me) and you (Warren), I think the answer to your question is unequivocally Y-E-S. I hope that was all clear. Let me know if I should try to say it another way. Thanks, -pmr From jkeating at redhat.com Tue Jan 9 15:12:28 2007 From: jkeating at redhat.com (Jesse Keating) Date: Tue, 9 Jan 2007 10:12:28 -0500 Subject: mozilla to seamonkey switch... In-Reply-To: <45A3A61F.6050306@odu.neva.ru> References: <45A3A61F.6050306@odu.neva.ru> Message-ID: <200701091012.28441.jkeating@redhat.com> On Tuesday 09 January 2007 09:26, Dmitry Butskoy wrote: > P.S. And it is painful enough to see "bubbles in water" instead of old > kind "red dragon" in the application which is used more than half time > of all the computer work for years... :( Trademark issue. You could keep your mozilla, but you wouldn't ever receive updates for it. -- Jesse Keating Release Engineer: Fedora -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 189 bytes Desc: not available URL: From rdieter at math.unl.edu Tue Jan 9 15:17:18 2007 From: rdieter at math.unl.edu (Rex Dieter) Date: Tue, 09 Jan 2007 09:17:18 -0600 Subject: F7 KDE spin References: <45A2BABB.2090902@math.unl.edu> <200701082157.53135.lamont@gurulabs.com> Message-ID: Lamont Peterson wrote: > One thing I've wanted to see for a long time is better packaging > granularity of some apps in the core set of KDE packages. Which equates to much more work on the packagers' part (usually). Are you willing to step up to help implement this? (: -- Rex From kevin.kofler at chello.at Tue Jan 9 15:17:50 2007 From: kevin.kofler at chello.at (Kevin Kofler) Date: Tue, 9 Jan 2007 15:17:50 +0000 (UTC) Subject: F7 KDE spin References: <45A2BABB.2090902@math.unl.edu> <1168337210.26164.7.camel@gilboa-work-dev.localdomain> <1168349230.26164.19.camel@gilboa-work-dev.localdomain> Message-ID: Gilboa Davara gmail.com> writes: > Out of the list above only evolution is "GNOME". (And given the its > history, even evolution isn't really a GNOME application.) > In the GNOME world Epiphany is the browser and Abiword/Gnumeric is the > office package. I know. I was referring to Evolution alone drawing in most of GNOME as dependencies. Now I personally don't have a problem with having to install GNOME libraries (I install whatever (appropriately licensed) libraries programs I want to use or even just try out require), but I'm not convinced Evolution is a good reason to include them. (In fact, it seems to be the most hated default app in Fedora judging from the comments on the mailing lists, some GNOME users are looking for an alternative too, some even switched to Kontact or KMail.) > Hopefully by the time KDE 4/KOffice 2.0 are released, koffice/kmail/konq > will be able to replace OO/Evo/firefox. I use KMail and Konqueror (as browser - I use Krusader as my file manager) all the time, they work fine for me. For the office suite, I don't need it often, so I could probably do with KOffice, but I do see the difference in features, so I do think OO.o is nice to have on the KDE spin (though it would be nice if the KDE integration (KDE NWF, KDE file dialogs) was available again, it had been for a moment in late OO.o 1 times and then got dropped again with OO.o 2). Kevin Kofler From buc at odusz.so-cdu.ru Tue Jan 9 15:20:01 2007 From: buc at odusz.so-cdu.ru (Dmitry Butskoy) Date: Tue, 09 Jan 2007 18:20:01 +0300 Subject: mozilla to seamonkey switch... In-Reply-To: <200701091012.28441.jkeating@redhat.com> References: <45A3A61F.6050306@odu.neva.ru> <200701091012.28441.jkeating@redhat.com> Message-ID: <45A3B2A1.8040109@odu.neva.ru> Jesse Keating wrote: >On Tuesday 09 January 2007 09:26, Dmitry Butskoy wrote: > > >>P.S. And it is painful enough to see "bubbles in water" instead of old >>kind "red dragon" in the application which is used more than half time >>of all the computer work for years... :( >> >> > >Trademark issue. You could keep your mozilla, but you wouldn't ever receive >updates for it. > > I know. Fortunately it is related to data (not code) -- it seems that I can replace things (certainly for my local fun only) in /usr/lib/mozilla-*/chrome/modern.jar//skin/modern/communicator/brand* by the older ones. Or create a modified theme for this. ~buc From rdieter at math.unl.edu Tue Jan 9 15:18:47 2007 From: rdieter at math.unl.edu (Rex Dieter) Date: Tue, 09 Jan 2007 09:18:47 -0600 Subject: F7 KDE spin References: <45A2BABB.2090902@math.unl.edu> <1168337210.26164.7.camel@gilboa-work-dev.localdomain> Message-ID: Gilboa Davara wrote: > Package set (outside of the usual kde* set) > Brainstorm ideas for package inclusion in spin. These need not be > installed by default. > > * System: kiosktool knetworkmanager > Add kdebluetooth. Not in Fedora (yet), pending review. > * non-kde pkgs: firefox, openoffice.org > Add evolution. (Required if you need good exchange integration) /me shudders, but I think I have to agree. >> * kdm/login (Artwork) > Will kdm get the same look and feel (read, branding) as the gdm > counter-part? Not necessarily, but we'd want something close to the standard F7 branding/artwork look-n-feel. -- Rex From pp at ee.oulu.fi Tue Jan 9 15:23:23 2007 From: pp at ee.oulu.fi (Pekka Pietikainen) Date: Tue, 9 Jan 2007 17:23:23 +0200 Subject: rawhide report: 20070108 changes In-Reply-To: <45A38492.2080904@leemhuis.info> References: <200701081113.l08BDBtT029997@hs20-bc2-6.build.redhat.com> <200701081155.25294.lamont@gurulabs.com> <1168305395.3159.84.camel@vader.jdub.homelinux.org> <45A342B8.4020706@leemhuis.info> <1168343233.3159.90.camel@vader.jdub.homelinux.org> <45A38492.2080904@leemhuis.info> Message-ID: <20070109152322.GA2631@ee.oulu.fi> On Tue, Jan 09, 2007 at 01:03:30PM +0100, Thorsten Leemhuis wrote: > from "uname -r" --> that now and then confuses external kmods that check > for the kernel release during "configure" or similar scripts. They due > to that might not build -> okay, I can live with that and fix it myself. > But if can lead to silent breakage, too, if some "ifdef'ed" workarounds > for newer kernels don't get applied. Well. Considering the RPM versioning trickyness, just about the only "workable" approach would be calling the kernels something like 2.6.19.994-1.2864.fc6 (for .20rc4), except scripts would still get confused, and users too (since such a version doesn't exist upstream, and the upstream original tarball still is linux-2.6.19.tar.bz2) The current naming is probably the least worst of a bunch of problemful naming options. rpm -q --changelog (and cvsweb) is your friend. Besides, it's only rawhide kernels that have confusing names ;) -- Pekka Pietikainen From rdieter at math.unl.edu Tue Jan 9 15:22:46 2007 From: rdieter at math.unl.edu (Rex Dieter) Date: Tue, 09 Jan 2007 09:22:46 -0600 Subject: F7 KDE spin References: <45A2BABB.2090902@math.unl.edu> <16de708d0701081825l33023bd4p818ad14919feae0b@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: Arthur Pemberton wrote: > I would also like to put forward a request that a verbose, clearly > worded document on rolling Fedora compatible RPMSs be produced and > well publicized. Well, the closest to that we have atm is likely the Packaging Guidelines: http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Packaging/Guidelines > Lastly, I would like to suggest, if the Gtk-QT engine is used, that > some exclusion be made for the system-config tools. Don't think that's possible, though even if it were, I don't think that would be a wise idea. (: -- Rex From nicolas.mailhot at laposte.net Tue Jan 9 15:35:51 2007 From: nicolas.mailhot at laposte.net (Nicolas Mailhot) Date: Tue, 9 Jan 2007 16:35:51 +0100 (CET) Subject: rawhide report: 20070108 changes Message-ID: <37952.192.54.193.51.1168356951.squirrel@rousalka.dyndns.org> Le Mar 9 janvier 2007 16:00, Jeffrey C. Ollie a ?crit : > If you look a the kernel .spec you will see that there is > "linux-2.6.19.tar.bz2" plus "patch-2.6.20-rc4.bz2". So the RPM version > is reflecting the fact that it's the 2.6.19 plus patches. I suppose ftp://ftp.kernel.org/pub/linux/kernel/v2.6/linux-2.6.18.tar.bz2 + ftp://ftp.kernel.org/pub/linux/kernel/v2.6/patch-2.6.19.bz2 is 2.6.18 + patches too then? The versions people expect are those upstream chose and upstream is not calling it 2.6.19 postrelease but 2.6.20 prerelease. Now that the big Linus feature merges happen at 2.6.x-rc1 time there is absolutely no way post 2.6.x-rc1 kernels are closer to 2.6.(x-1) than 2.6.x -- Nicolas Mailhot From nicolas.mailhot at laposte.net Tue Jan 9 15:38:44 2007 From: nicolas.mailhot at laposte.net (Nicolas Mailhot) Date: Tue, 9 Jan 2007 16:38:44 +0100 (CET) Subject: rawhide report: 20070108 changes Message-ID: <49990.192.54.193.51.1168357124.squirrel@rousalka.dyndns.org> Le Mar 9 janvier 2007 16:23, Pekka Pietikainen a ?crit : > Well. Considering the RPM versioning trickyness, just about the only > "workable" approach Do you mean the Fedora guidelines for pre/post release naming are not "workable"? -- Nicolas Mailhot From kevin.kofler at chello.at Tue Jan 9 15:43:17 2007 From: kevin.kofler at chello.at (Kevin Kofler) Date: Tue, 9 Jan 2007 15:43:17 +0000 (UTC) Subject: rawhide report: 20070108 changes References: <200701081113.l08BDBtT029997@hs20-bc2-6.build.redhat.com> <200701081155.25294.lamont@gurulabs.com> <1168305395.3159.84.camel@vader.jdub.homelinux.org> <45A342B8.4020706@leemhuis.info> <1168343233.3159.90.camel@vader.jdub.homelinux.org> <45A38492.2080904@leemhuis.info> <20070109152322.GA2631@ee.oulu.fi> Message-ID: Pekka Pietikainen ee.oulu.fi> writes: > Well. Considering the RPM versioning trickyness, just about the only > "workable" approach would be calling the kernels something like > 2.6.19.994-1.2864.fc6 (for .20rc4), except scripts would still get confused, > and users too (since such a version doesn't exist upstream, and the upstream > original tarball still is linux-2.6.19.tar.bz2) The Fedora packaging guidelines say the name should be 2.6.20-0.1.2864.rc4.fc7. http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Packaging/NamingGuidelines#head-d97a3f40b6dd9d2288206ac9bd8f1bf9b791b22a Kevin Kofler From rdieter at math.unl.edu Tue Jan 9 15:48:52 2007 From: rdieter at math.unl.edu (Rex Dieter) Date: Tue, 09 Jan 2007 09:48:52 -0600 Subject: F7 KDE spin References: <45A2BABB.2090902@math.unl.edu> <13dbfe4f0701081402j584b1f26oc81fbae61f517e58@mail.gmail.com> <1168298249.2777.10.camel@zelda.fubar.dk> Message-ID: David Zeuthen wrote: > On Mon, 2007-01-08 at 23:02 +0100, Chitlesh GOORAH wrote: >> However work should be done to prevent having 2 or more applications >> on the spin which do the same thing. >> eg. having konversation and ksirc on the spin (a bad idea) > > On a live CD this would be true (and I hope you KDE guys will send > patches for a fedora-livecd-kde subpackage once the fedora-livecd SRPM > is imported into Extras^WThe Fedora Package Collection) any eta on fedora-livecd availability (in Extras, whatever)? -- Rex From dwmw2 at infradead.org Tue Jan 9 15:53:59 2007 From: dwmw2 at infradead.org (David Woodhouse) Date: Tue, 09 Jan 2007 23:53:59 +0800 Subject: mozilla to seamonkey switch... In-Reply-To: <200701091012.28441.jkeating@redhat.com> References: <45A3A61F.6050306@odu.neva.ru> <200701091012.28441.jkeating@redhat.com> Message-ID: <1168358039.14763.371.camel@shinybook.infradead.org> On Tue, 2007-01-09 at 10:12 -0500, Jesse Keating wrote: > On Tuesday 09 January 2007 09:26, Dmitry Butskoy wrote: > > P.S. And it is painful enough to see "bubbles in water" instead of old > > kind "red dragon" in the application which is used more than half time > > of all the computer work for years... :( > > Trademark issue. You could keep your mozilla, but you wouldn't ever receive > updates for it. Do they ever really _do_ anything about the trademark issue, or is it just hot air? They don't seem to care much about the fact that we've been shipping a totally non-functional? firefox? on ppc64 since before the FC6 release. There was an FC6Blocker bug filed for it -- all we needed to do was stop building 64-bit on the basis that (a) it doesn't work; and (b) it's the 32-bit one we want anyway, because the plugins we ship in the distribution are 32-bit (as is most of the distribution) and so are the externally-available plugins like Java and RealPlayer. But still we shipped it -- and in fact we're _still_ shipping it and even running it by default instead of the proper one. The recent updates for FC6 are still broken, as is rawhide. At first glance it looks like the FC5 seamonkey update seems to have been done with roughly the same level of kwality... --> Running transaction check --> Processing Dependency: seamonkey >= 1.0.7 for package: yelp --> Processing Dependency: libxpcom_core.so for package: yelp --> Restarting Dependency Resolution with new changes. --> Populating transaction set with selected packages. Please wait. ---> Package seamonkey.ppc 0:1.0.7-0.6.fc5 set to be updated --> Running transaction check --> Processing Dependency: mozilla = 37:1.7.13-1.1.fc5 for package: mozilla-devel --> Finished Dependency Resolution Error: Missing Dependency: mozilla = 37:1.7.13-1.1.fc5 is needed by package mozilla-devel -- dwmw2 ? Core XPCom stubs are completely unimplemented -- it's a bug in the build system that it even built 'successfully'. Mozilla bug #361413, to be precise. From sundaram at fedoraproject.org Tue Jan 9 15:51:17 2007 From: sundaram at fedoraproject.org (Rahul Sundaram) Date: Tue, 09 Jan 2007 21:21:17 +0530 Subject: F7 KDE spin In-Reply-To: References: <45A2BABB.2090902@math.unl.edu> <13dbfe4f0701081402j584b1f26oc81fbae61f517e58@mail.gmail.com> <1168298249.2777.10.camel@zelda.fubar.dk> Message-ID: <45A3B9F5.4060302@fedoraproject.org> Rex Dieter wrote: > David Zeuthen wrote: > >> On Mon, 2007-01-08 at 23:02 +0100, Chitlesh GOORAH wrote: >>> However work should be done to prevent having 2 or more applications >>> on the spin which do the same thing. >>> eg. having konversation and ksirc on the spin (a bad idea) >> On a live CD this would be true (and I hope you KDE guys will send >> patches for a fedora-livecd-kde subpackage once the fedora-livecd SRPM >> is imported into Extras^WThe Fedora Package Collection) > > any eta on fedora-livecd availability (in Extras, whatever)? > Pending review. https://bugzilla.redhat.com/bugzilla/show_bug.cgi?id=220635 https://bugzilla.redhat.com/bugzilla/show_bug.cgi?id=220637 Rahul From jeff at ocjtech.us Tue Jan 9 16:02:28 2007 From: jeff at ocjtech.us (Jeffrey C. Ollie) Date: Tue, 09 Jan 2007 10:02:28 -0600 Subject: rawhide report: 20070108 changes In-Reply-To: <37952.192.54.193.51.1168356951.squirrel@rousalka.dyndns.org> References: <37952.192.54.193.51.1168356951.squirrel@rousalka.dyndns.org> Message-ID: <1168358548.3578.17.camel@lt21223.campus.dmacc.edu> On Tue, 2007-01-09 at 16:35 +0100, Nicolas Mailhot wrote: > Le Mar 9 janvier 2007 16:00, Jeffrey C. Ollie a ?crit : > > > If you look a the kernel .spec you will see that there is > > "linux-2.6.19.tar.bz2" plus "patch-2.6.20-rc4.bz2". So the RPM version > > is reflecting the fact that it's the 2.6.19 plus patches. > > I suppose > ftp://ftp.kernel.org/pub/linux/kernel/v2.6/linux-2.6.18.tar.bz2 > + > ftp://ftp.kernel.org/pub/linux/kernel/v2.6/patch-2.6.19.bz2 > > is 2.6.18 + patches too then? Yes, if the .spec was structured that way. But I bet that the RH kernel guys would just switch to the full 2.6.29 tarball. But you can't switch to a kernel release candidate tarball because there aren't any that I know of. Kernel release candidates are only released as patches against the previous release version. (Jeez how many more times can I use "release" in a sentence?) > The versions people expect are those upstream chose and upstream is not > calling it 2.6.19 postrelease but 2.6.20 prerelease. Now that the big > Linus feature merges happen at 2.6.x-rc1 time there is absolutely no way > post 2.6.x-rc1 kernels are closer to 2.6.(x-1) than 2.6.x The rationale for the kernel versioning scheme has been discussed endlessly in the past. I suggest that we all take a trip to the archives and refresh our memory. Jeff -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: signature.asc Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 189 bytes Desc: This is a digitally signed message part URL: From buc at odusz.so-cdu.ru Tue Jan 9 16:02:31 2007 From: buc at odusz.so-cdu.ru (Dmitry Butskoy) Date: Tue, 09 Jan 2007 19:02:31 +0300 Subject: mozilla to seamonkey switch... In-Reply-To: <1168358039.14763.371.camel@shinybook.infradead.org> References: <45A3A61F.6050306@odu.neva.ru> <200701091012.28441.jkeating@redhat.com> <1168358039.14763.371.camel@shinybook.infradead.org> Message-ID: <45A3BC97.3000707@odu.neva.ru> David Woodhouse wrote: >At first glance it looks like the FC5 seamonkey update seems to have >been done with roughly the same level of kwality... > > +1 :-( >--> Running transaction check >--> Processing Dependency: seamonkey >= 1.0.7 for package: yelp >--> Processing Dependency: libxpcom_core.so for package: yelp >--> Restarting Dependency Resolution with new changes. >--> Populating transaction set with selected packages. Please wait. >---> Package seamonkey.ppc 0:1.0.7-0.6.fc5 set to be updated >--> Running transaction check >--> Processing Dependency: mozilla = 37:1.7.13-1.1.fc5 for package: mozilla-devel >--> Finished Dependency Resolution >Error: Missing Dependency: mozilla = 37:1.7.13-1.1.fc5 is needed by package mozilla-devel > > Maybe do "yum upgrade" instead of "yum update", to catch "obsoletes" etc?... ~buc From rdieter at math.unl.edu Tue Jan 9 16:05:09 2007 From: rdieter at math.unl.edu (Rex Dieter) Date: Tue, 09 Jan 2007 10:05:09 -0600 Subject: F7 KDE spin References: <45A2BABB.2090902@math.unl.edu> <13dbfe4f0701081402j584b1f26oc81fbae61f517e58@mail.gmail.com> <1168298249.2777.10.camel@zelda.fubar.dk> <45A3B9F5.4060302@fedoraproject.org> Message-ID: Rahul Sundaram wrote: > Rex Dieter wrote: >> David Zeuthen wrote: >> >>> On Mon, 2007-01-08 at 23:02 +0100, Chitlesh GOORAH wrote: >>>> However work should be done to prevent having 2 or more applications >>>> on the spin which do the same thing. >>>> eg. having konversation and ksirc on the spin (a bad idea) >>> On a live CD this would be true (and I hope you KDE guys will send >>> patches for a fedora-livecd-kde subpackage once the fedora-livecd SRPM >>> is imported into Extras^WThe Fedora Package Collection) >> >> any eta on fedora-livecd availability (in Extras, whatever)? >> > > Pending review. > > https://bugzilla.redhat.com/bugzilla/show_bug.cgi?id=220635 > https://bugzilla.redhat.com/bugzilla/show_bug.cgi?id=220637 Duh, I should have known better to look first. I'll try to (help) review this within the next day or 2. -- Rex From zrchrn at gmail.com Tue Jan 9 16:09:31 2007 From: zrchrn at gmail.com (Ahm ed) Date: Tue, 9 Jan 2007 11:09:31 -0500 Subject: F7 kde - suggestion Message-ID: I have found this "new" menu for kde, which seems rather nice. I have used it on other distributions and it was fairly effective. It's called tasty menu. heres the link to the site where I found this app. http://kde-apps.org/content/show.php?content=41866 is where I found it. I post this here incase any of the F7 KDE devs feel it would be a good addition to the Fedora desktop and possibly add some polish to the system. From jkeating at redhat.com Tue Jan 9 16:11:13 2007 From: jkeating at redhat.com (Jesse Keating) Date: Tue, 9 Jan 2007 11:11:13 -0500 Subject: mozilla to seamonkey switch... In-Reply-To: <45A3BC97.3000707@odu.neva.ru> References: <45A3A61F.6050306@odu.neva.ru> <1168358039.14763.371.camel@shinybook.infradead.org> <45A3BC97.3000707@odu.neva.ru> Message-ID: <200701091111.13479.jkeating@redhat.com> On Tuesday 09 January 2007 11:02, Dmitry Butskoy wrote: > Maybe do "yum upgrade" instead of "yum update", to catch "obsoletes" > etc?... upgrade/update do the same things now, have for a while IIRC. -- Jesse Keating Release Engineer: Fedora -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 189 bytes Desc: not available URL: From mattdm at mattdm.org Tue Jan 9 16:17:21 2007 From: mattdm at mattdm.org (Matthew Miller) Date: Tue, 9 Jan 2007 11:17:21 -0500 Subject: Fedora 7 and enabling updates repositories at install time Message-ID: <20070109161721.GA28584@jadzia.bu.edu> So, are we ready for this? -- Matthew Miller mattdm at mattdm.org Boston University Linux ------> From jkeating at redhat.com Tue Jan 9 16:22:54 2007 From: jkeating at redhat.com (Jesse Keating) Date: Tue, 9 Jan 2007 11:22:54 -0500 Subject: Fedora 7 and enabling updates repositories at install time In-Reply-To: <20070109161721.GA28584@jadzia.bu.edu> References: <20070109161721.GA28584@jadzia.bu.edu> Message-ID: <200701091122.54896.jkeating@redhat.com> On Tuesday 09 January 2007 11:17, Matthew Miller wrote: > So, are we ready for this? Has there been any testing with this using FC6 installs? You can enable any repo, what kind of problems / success have people been having with this? -- Jesse Keating Release Engineer: Fedora -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 189 bytes Desc: not available URL: From nicolas.mailhot at laposte.net Tue Jan 9 16:23:49 2007 From: nicolas.mailhot at laposte.net (Nicolas Mailhot) Date: Tue, 9 Jan 2007 17:23:49 +0100 (CET) Subject: rawhide report: 20070108 changes Message-ID: <26613.192.54.193.51.1168359829.squirrel@rousalka.dyndns.org> Le Mar 9 janvier 2007 17:02, Jeffrey C. Ollie a ?crit : > On Tue, 2007-01-09 at 16:35 +0100, Nicolas Mailhot wrote: >> Le Mar 9 janvier 2007 16:00, Jeffrey C. Ollie a ?crit : >> >> > If you look a the kernel .spec you will see that there is >> > "linux-2.6.19.tar.bz2" plus "patch-2.6.20-rc4.bz2". So the RPM >> version >> > is reflecting the fact that it's the 2.6.19 plus patches. >> >> I suppose >> ftp://ftp.kernel.org/pub/linux/kernel/v2.6/linux-2.6.18.tar.bz2 >> + >> ftp://ftp.kernel.org/pub/linux/kernel/v2.6/patch-2.6.19.bz2 >> >> is 2.6.18 + patches too then? > > Yes, if the .spec was structured that way. But I bet that the RH kernel > guys would just switch to the full 2.6.29 tarball. But you can't switch > to a kernel release candidate tarball because there aren't any that I > know of. ftp://ftp.kernel.org/pub/linux/kernel/v2.6/testing/linux-2.6.20-rc4.tar.bz2 (Just to disprove this argument, you could push it a tad further and suggest to distinguish between .tar.bz2, tar.gz & zip source archives in rpm versions) -- Nicolas Mailhot From jkeating at redhat.com Tue Jan 9 16:29:54 2007 From: jkeating at redhat.com (Jesse Keating) Date: Tue, 9 Jan 2007 11:29:54 -0500 Subject: rawhide report: 20070108 changes In-Reply-To: <26613.192.54.193.51.1168359829.squirrel@rousalka.dyndns.org> References: <26613.192.54.193.51.1168359829.squirrel@rousalka.dyndns.org> Message-ID: <200701091129.54823.jkeating@redhat.com> On Tuesday 09 January 2007 11:23, Nicolas Mailhot wrote: > ftp://ftp.kernel.org/pub/linux/kernel/v2.6/testing/linux-2.6.20-rc4.tar.bz2 > > (Just to disprove this argument, you could push it a tad further and > suggest to distinguish between .tar.bz2, tar.gz & zip source archives in > rpm versions) While there is a tarball there, you'll see we're not using it in our kernel package. Using the stack of patches has other bonuses, being able to opt out of some of them, possibly easier to integrate our patches into the mix, etc.. So our package really isn't the 2.6.20-rc4 release, it's 2.6.19 plus all the patches that is leading up to 2.6.20. -- Jesse Keating Release Engineer: Fedora -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 189 bytes Desc: not available URL: From jeff at ocjtech.us Tue Jan 9 16:34:59 2007 From: jeff at ocjtech.us (Jeffrey C. Ollie) Date: Tue, 09 Jan 2007 10:34:59 -0600 Subject: Fedora 7 and enabling updates repositories at install time In-Reply-To: <200701091122.54896.jkeating@redhat.com> References: <20070109161721.GA28584@jadzia.bu.edu> <200701091122.54896.jkeating@redhat.com> Message-ID: <1168360499.3578.28.camel@lt21223.campus.dmacc.edu> On Tue, 2007-01-09 at 11:22 -0500, Jesse Keating wrote: > On Tuesday 09 January 2007 11:17, Matthew Miller wrote: > > So, are we ready for this? > > Has there been any testing with this using FC6 installs? You can enable any > repo, what kind of problems / success have people been having with this? I've done a few kickstart installs on Xen guests using Extras + Updates and it has worked well: url --url http:///pub/fedora/linux/core/6/i386/os/ repo --name=extras --baseurl=http:///pub/fedora/linux/extras/6/i386/ repo --name=updates --baseurl=http:///pub/fedora/linux/core/updates/6/i386/ However, when I tried to add the updates repo during an interactive install Anaconda complained about not finding a comps file. I don't recall if it worked or not because I had some other issues during the install and I redid the install without bothering to enable the updates repo. One other thing that I've noticed is that I don't think that it's possible to modify the Extras repo that is preconfigured for you. I would want to point Anaconda at a local (private) mirror so that I wouldn't have to re-download the packages that I want to install. Jeff -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: signature.asc Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 189 bytes Desc: This is a digitally signed message part URL: From gilboad at gmail.com Tue Jan 9 16:38:56 2007 From: gilboad at gmail.com (Gilboa Davara) Date: Tue, 09 Jan 2007 18:38:56 +0200 Subject: F7 KDE spin In-Reply-To: References: <45A2BABB.2090902@math.unl.edu> <1168337210.26164.7.camel@gilboa-work-dev.localdomain> Message-ID: <1168360736.2748.6.camel@gilboa-work-dev.localdomain> On Tue, 2007-01-09 at 09:18 -0600, Rex Dieter wrote: > Gilboa Davara wrote: [snip] > > * non-kde pkgs: firefox, openoffice.org > > Add evolution. (Required if you need good exchange integration) > > /me shudders, but I think I have to agree. > No fear! So what if you have to include half of GNOME, mono, and 250 other packages just to get it working... :) As much as I dislike the-bloat-ware-known-as-evo, it's the best outlook (*spit) replacement in the OSS world. Hopefully, kmail will get exchange integration and -decent- * keyboard navigation in KDE4. - Gilboa * I know... I know... it's customizable. But I always lose patience within 25 minutes of trying to get the *** thing to work like evo/thunderbird/mozilla/outlook/etc. From jkeating at redhat.com Tue Jan 9 16:50:49 2007 From: jkeating at redhat.com (Jesse Keating) Date: Tue, 9 Jan 2007 11:50:49 -0500 Subject: Fedora 7 and enabling updates repositories at install time In-Reply-To: <1168360499.3578.28.camel@lt21223.campus.dmacc.edu> References: <20070109161721.GA28584@jadzia.bu.edu> <200701091122.54896.jkeating@redhat.com> <1168360499.3578.28.camel@lt21223.campus.dmacc.edu> Message-ID: <200701091150.49458.jkeating@redhat.com> On Tuesday 09 January 2007 11:34, Jeffrey C. Ollie wrote: > I've done a few kickstart installs on Xen guests using Extras + Updates > and it has worked well: > > url --url http:///pub/fedora/linux/core/6/i386/os/ > repo --name=extras > --baseurl=http:///pub/fedora/linux/extras/6/i386/ repo > --name=updates > --baseurl=http:///pub/fedora/linux/core/updates/6/i386/ > > However, when I tried to add the updates repo during an interactive > install Anaconda complained about not finding a comps file. ?I don't > recall if it worked or not because I had some other issues during the > install and I redid the install without bothering to enable the updates > repo. > > One other thing that I've noticed is that I don't think that it's > possible to modify the Extras repo that is preconfigured for you. ?I > would want to point Anaconda at a local (private) mirror so that I > wouldn't have to re-download the packages that I want to install. I just remembered what the problem was with FC6+updates. With FC6, the content from the extra repos gets installed after the content from the CD/DVD/NFS base repo. Since your updates would replace the packages from these repos, you get into nasty install problems where you need something from one of these repos before the next thing from your base repo. Jeremy, anaconda folks, was there any thought about this for F7? -- Jesse Keating Release Engineer: Fedora -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 189 bytes Desc: not available URL: From jima at beer.tclug.org Tue Jan 9 16:57:54 2007 From: jima at beer.tclug.org (Jima) Date: Tue, 9 Jan 2007 10:57:54 -0600 (CST) Subject: Fedora 7 and enabling updates repositories at install time In-Reply-To: <200701091122.54896.jkeating@redhat.com> References: <20070109161721.GA28584@jadzia.bu.edu> <200701091122.54896.jkeating@redhat.com> Message-ID: On Tue, 9 Jan 2007, Jesse Keating wrote: > On Tuesday 09 January 2007 11:17, Matthew Miller wrote: >> So, are we ready for this? > > Has there been any testing with this using FC6 installs? You can enable any > repo, what kind of problems / success have people been having with this? I've done this a number of times. It's worked rather nicely for me, although my concern would be how to point it at a local mirror instead of a default (as I typically do network installs off a local server). Jima From skvidal at linux.duke.edu Tue Jan 9 17:03:51 2007 From: skvidal at linux.duke.edu (seth vidal) Date: Tue, 09 Jan 2007 12:03:51 -0500 Subject: mozilla to seamonkey switch... In-Reply-To: <200701091111.13479.jkeating@redhat.com> References: <45A3A61F.6050306@odu.neva.ru> <1168358039.14763.371.camel@shinybook.infradead.org> <45A3BC97.3000707@odu.neva.ru> <200701091111.13479.jkeating@redhat.com> Message-ID: <1168362231.6566.33.camel@cutter> On Tue, 2007-01-09 at 11:11 -0500, Jesse Keating wrote: > On Tuesday 09 January 2007 11:02, Dmitry Butskoy wrote: > > Maybe do "yum upgrade" instead of "yum update", to catch "obsoletes" > > etc?... > > upgrade/update do the same things now, have for a while IIRC. > unless the user has obsoletes=0 explicitly set in /etc/yum.conf. -sv From jkeating at redhat.com Tue Jan 9 17:06:49 2007 From: jkeating at redhat.com (Jesse Keating) Date: Tue, 9 Jan 2007 12:06:49 -0500 Subject: Fedora 7 and enabling updates repositories at install time In-Reply-To: References: <20070109161721.GA28584@jadzia.bu.edu> <200701091122.54896.jkeating@redhat.com> Message-ID: <200701091206.52915.jkeating@redhat.com> On Tuesday 09 January 2007 11:57, Jima wrote: > > Has there been any testing with this using FC6 installs? ?You can enable > > any repo, what kind of problems / success have people been having with > > this? > > ? I've done this a number of times. ?It's worked rather nicely for me, > although my concern would be how to point it at a local mirror instead of > a default (as I typically do network installs off a local server). Well, you're probably talking about enabling Extras via the checkbox, not manually adding a repo that holds the Updates in it, which is a different thing. -- Jesse Keating Release Engineer: Fedora -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 189 bytes Desc: not available URL: From chitlesh at fedoraproject.org Tue Jan 9 17:23:24 2007 From: chitlesh at fedoraproject.org (Chitlesh GOORAH) Date: Tue, 9 Jan 2007 18:23:24 +0100 Subject: F7 KDE spin In-Reply-To: References: <45A2BABB.2090902@math.unl.edu> <1168337210.26164.7.camel@gilboa-work-dev.localdomain> <1168349230.26164.19.camel@gilboa-work-dev.localdomain> Message-ID: <13dbfe4f0701090923r42ae5aadw5cc65d3a7a90b49b@mail.gmail.com> On 1/9/07, Kevin Kofler wrote: > I know. I was referring to Evolution alone drawing in most of GNOME as > dependencies. Now I personally don't have a problem with having to install > GNOME libraries (I install whatever (appropriately licensed) libraries programs > I want to use or even just try out require), but I'm not convinced Evolution is > a good reason to include them. (In fact, it seems to be the most hated default > app in Fedora judging from the comments on the mailing lists, some GNOME users > are looking for an alternative too, some even switched to Kontact or KMail.) I'll back the idea for not including evolution in KDE spin. Hmm having evolution on a kde spin isn't really a kde spin. Kontact is already among core kde packages why should the heck be a replacement for that ? at least evolution is being supplied on the repositories. As far are firefox and openoffice are concerned, I'm ok with them, but not evolution. example: Kontact communicates very well with kwallet for password storage. Now if we include evolution in the kde spin, should we be working to provide such feature for evolution? Chitlesh -- http://clunixchit.blogspot.com From davej at redhat.com Tue Jan 9 17:39:14 2007 From: davej at redhat.com (Dave Jones) Date: Tue, 9 Jan 2007 12:39:14 -0500 Subject: rawhide report: 20070108 changes In-Reply-To: <200701090815.10970.jkeating@redhat.com> References: <200701081113.l08BDBtT029997@hs20-bc2-6.build.redhat.com> <1168305395.3159.84.camel@vader.jdub.homelinux.org> <45A342B8.4020706@leemhuis.info> <200701090815.10970.jkeating@redhat.com> Message-ID: <20070109173914.GB10474@redhat.com> On Tue, Jan 09, 2007 at 08:15:10AM -0500, Jesse Keating wrote: > On Tuesday 09 January 2007 02:22, Thorsten Leemhuis wrote: > > If I would review the kernel for the extras merge I'd say "fix this". > > But I suspect davej won't like to call the kernels 2.6.20 (e.g. > > 2.6.20-1.2906.rc4.fc7 for example) before they are actually 2.6.20. > > > > This will be one of the problem areas we'll probably have to deal with > > when it comes to reviewing Core packages for the Extras merge. > > Personally, I'm all for giving the kernel a pass on this and some of the > other... interesting things in the spec. That is, unless the reviewer not > only complains about something in the spec, but also produces a viable rework > of what the spec is trying to accomplish. The kernel is one of our speshul > packages that really does need some special consideration. Really. And if you want to do something useful with the kernel package, there's no shortage of real bugs that need fixing. Dave -- http://www.codemonkey.org.uk From jima at beer.tclug.org Tue Jan 9 17:47:01 2007 From: jima at beer.tclug.org (Jima) Date: Tue, 9 Jan 2007 11:47:01 -0600 (CST) Subject: Fedora 7 and enabling updates repositories at install time In-Reply-To: <200701091206.52915.jkeating@redhat.com> References: <20070109161721.GA28584@jadzia.bu.edu> <200701091122.54896.jkeating@redhat.com> <200701091206.52915.jkeating@redhat.com> Message-ID: On Tue, 9 Jan 2007, Jesse Keating wrote: > On Tuesday 09 January 2007 11:57, Jima wrote: >> ? I've done this a number of times. ?It's worked rather nicely for me, >> although my concern would be how to point it at a local mirror instead of >> a default (as I typically do network installs off a local server). > > Well, you're probably talking about enabling Extras via the checkbox, not > manually adding a repo that holds the Updates in it, which is a different > thing. No, I'm talking about adding a repository with updates. I actually haven't enabled Extras at install time yet. (Is the comps file even in the right place to work? ISTR hearing it wasn't.) Give me a little credit. Jima From jkeating at redhat.com Tue Jan 9 17:54:03 2007 From: jkeating at redhat.com (Jesse Keating) Date: Tue, 9 Jan 2007 12:54:03 -0500 Subject: Fedora 7 and enabling updates repositories at install time In-Reply-To: References: <20070109161721.GA28584@jadzia.bu.edu> <200701091206.52915.jkeating@redhat.com> Message-ID: <200701091254.04083.jkeating@redhat.com> On Tuesday 09 January 2007 12:47, Jima wrote: > ? No, I'm talking about adding a repository with updates. ?I actually > haven't enabled Extras at install time yet. ?(Is the comps file even in > the right place to work? ?ISTR hearing it wasn't.) ?Give me a little > credit. Well I've had the opposite experience. If I enable Core Updates at install time, the install fails to complete due to the addon repo packages being installed after the main set. -- Jesse Keating Release Engineer: Fedora -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 189 bytes Desc: not available URL: From fedora at leemhuis.info Tue Jan 9 17:55:12 2007 From: fedora at leemhuis.info (Thorsten Leemhuis) Date: Tue, 09 Jan 2007 18:55:12 +0100 Subject: rawhide report: 20070108 changes In-Reply-To: <20070109173914.GB10474@redhat.com> References: <200701081113.l08BDBtT029997@hs20-bc2-6.build.redhat.com> <1168305395.3159.84.camel@vader.jdub.homelinux.org> <45A342B8.4020706@leemhuis.info> <200701090815.10970.jkeating@redhat.com> <20070109173914.GB10474@redhat.com> Message-ID: <45A3D700.4060606@leemhuis.info> Dave Jones schrieb: > On Tue, Jan 09, 2007 at 08:15:10AM -0500, Jesse Keating wrote: > > On Tuesday 09 January 2007 02:22, Thorsten Leemhuis wrote: > > > If I would review the kernel for the extras merge I'd say "fix this". > > > But I suspect davej won't like to call the kernels 2.6.20 (e.g. > > > 2.6.20-1.2906.rc4.fc7 for example) before they are actually 2.6.20. > > > This will be one of the problem areas we'll probably have to deal with > > > when it comes to reviewing Core packages for the Extras merge. > > Personally, I'm all for giving the kernel a pass on this and some of the > > other... interesting things in the spec. That is, unless the reviewer not > > only complains about something in the spec, but also produces a viable rework > > of what the spec is trying to accomplish. The kernel is one of our speshul > > packages that really does need some special consideration. > Really. And if you want to do something useful with the kernel package, > there's no shortage of real bugs that need fixing. There are guidelines for packaging. They contain a standard for naming pre-release packages. The kernel package clearly is violating it as the version of the kernel is in fact 2.6.20-rc4, but the %version is 2.6.19. Can we agree so far? Okay, next step: Are you asking us to ignore that during the review for the merge? BTW, sure, we can't fix each and every detail of a complex package like the kernel-one. But the wrong pre-relase-version one is fixed easily and I think that actually why we do the big review for the merge. CU thl From davej at redhat.com Tue Jan 9 18:02:06 2007 From: davej at redhat.com (Dave Jones) Date: Tue, 9 Jan 2007 13:02:06 -0500 Subject: rawhide report: 20070108 changes In-Reply-To: <45A3D700.4060606@leemhuis.info> References: <200701081113.l08BDBtT029997@hs20-bc2-6.build.redhat.com> <1168305395.3159.84.camel@vader.jdub.homelinux.org> <45A342B8.4020706@leemhuis.info> <200701090815.10970.jkeating@redhat.com> <20070109173914.GB10474@redhat.com> <45A3D700.4060606@leemhuis.info> Message-ID: <20070109180206.GB3417@redhat.com> On Tue, Jan 09, 2007 at 06:55:12PM +0100, Thorsten Leemhuis wrote: > Dave Jones schrieb: > > On Tue, Jan 09, 2007 at 08:15:10AM -0500, Jesse Keating wrote: > > > On Tuesday 09 January 2007 02:22, Thorsten Leemhuis wrote: > > > > If I would review the kernel for the extras merge I'd say "fix this". > > > > But I suspect davej won't like to call the kernels 2.6.20 (e.g. > > > > 2.6.20-1.2906.rc4.fc7 for example) before they are actually 2.6.20. > > > > This will be one of the problem areas we'll probably have to deal with > > > > when it comes to reviewing Core packages for the Extras merge. > > > Personally, I'm all for giving the kernel a pass on this and some of the > > > other... interesting things in the spec. That is, unless the reviewer not > > > only complains about something in the spec, but also produces a viable rework > > > of what the spec is trying to accomplish. The kernel is one of our speshul > > > packages that really does need some special consideration. > > Really. And if you want to do something useful with the kernel package, > > there's no shortage of real bugs that need fixing. > > There are guidelines for packaging. They contain a standard for naming > pre-release packages. The kernel package clearly is violating it as the > version of the kernel is in fact 2.6.20-rc4, but the %version is 2.6.19. > Can we agree so far? I don't consider rc's as released versions. The package version number should state the latest released version that package is based on. If we were to go down this route, we'd have to contend with the other upstream naming conventions too. look at the combinations we have :- 2.6.19, 2.6.19-git1, 2.6.19-rc1, 2.6.19.1, 2.6.19-rc1-git1, 2.6.19.1-rc1 If rpmvercmp gets all of those transitions correct, I'll be surprised. > Okay, next step: Are you asking us to ignore that during the review for > the merge? BTW, sure, we can't fix each and every detail of a complex > package like the kernel-one. But the wrong pre-relase-version one is > fixed easily and I think that actually why we do the big review for the > merge. We've got much bigger fish to fry, and this afaics can only introduce problems. Dave -- http://www.codemonkey.org.uk From jkeating at redhat.com Tue Jan 9 18:04:05 2007 From: jkeating at redhat.com (Jesse Keating) Date: Tue, 9 Jan 2007 13:04:05 -0500 Subject: rawhide report: 20070108 changes In-Reply-To: <45A3D700.4060606@leemhuis.info> References: <200701081113.l08BDBtT029997@hs20-bc2-6.build.redhat.com> <20070109173914.GB10474@redhat.com> <45A3D700.4060606@leemhuis.info> Message-ID: <200701091304.05604.jkeating@redhat.com> On Tuesday 09 January 2007 12:55, Thorsten Leemhuis wrote: > There are guidelines for packaging. They contain a standard for naming > pre-release packages. The kernel package clearly is violating it as the > version of the kernel is in fact 2.6.20-rc4, but the %version is 2.6.19. > Can we agree so far? Actually no. The 2.6.20-rc4 tarball isn't used, rather the 2.6.19 tarball is, with lots of patches add on top of that. -- Jesse Keating Release Engineer: Fedora -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 189 bytes Desc: not available URL: From jeff at ocjtech.us Tue Jan 9 18:05:58 2007 From: jeff at ocjtech.us (Jeffrey C. Ollie) Date: Tue, 09 Jan 2007 12:05:58 -0600 Subject: Fedora 7 and enabling updates repositories at install time In-Reply-To: <200701091150.49458.jkeating@redhat.com> References: <20070109161721.GA28584@jadzia.bu.edu> <200701091122.54896.jkeating@redhat.com> <1168360499.3578.28.camel@lt21223.campus.dmacc.edu> <200701091150.49458.jkeating@redhat.com> Message-ID: <1168365958.3578.56.camel@lt21223.campus.dmacc.edu> On Tue, 2007-01-09 at 11:50 -0500, Jesse Keating wrote: > > I just remembered what the problem was with FC6+updates. With FC6, the > content from the extra repos gets installed after the content from the > CD/DVD/NFS base repo. Since your updates would replace the packages from > these repos, you get into nasty install problems where you need something > from one of these repos before the next thing from your base repo. Hmm... it could be because I was doing relatively minimal "server" installs, but I didn't see any evidence of this. I'll attach the (sanitized) kickstart file that I've been using. Jeff -------------- next part -------------- install text url --url http:///pub/fedora/linux/core/6/i386/os/ repo --name=extras --baseurl=http:///pub/fedora/linux/extras/6/i386/ repo --name=updates --baseurl=http:///pub/fedora/linux/core/updates/6/i386/ lang en_US.UTF-8 keyboard us skipx network --device eth0 --bootproto dhcp --hostname myhostname rootpw --iscrypted firewall --enabled --port=22:tcp authconfig --enableshadow --enablemd5 selinux --enforcing timezone --utc America/Chicago bootloader --location=mbr --driveorder=xvda # The following is the partition information you requested # Note that any partitions you deleted are not expressed # here so unless you clear all partitions first, this is # not guaranteed to work clearpart --all --initlabel --drives=xvda part /boot --fstype ext3 --size=100 --ondisk=xvda part pv.3 --size=0 --grow --ondisk=xvda volgroup myhostname --pesize=32768 pv.3 logvol / --fstype ext3 --name=root --vgname=myhostname --size=1024 logvol swap --fstype swap --name=swap --vgname=myhostname --size=512 logvol /tmp --fstype ext3 --name=tmp --vgname=myhostname --size=1024 logvol /usr --fstype ext3 --name=usr --vgname=myhostname --size=2048 logvol /home --fstype ext3 --name=home --vgname=myhostname --size=1024 logvol /var --fstype ext3 --name=var --vgname=myhostname --size=2048 %packages acl acpid anacron apmd aspell aspell-en at atk attr audiofile audit-libs audit-libs-python avahi avahi-glib basesystem bash bc beecrypt bind-libs bind-utils binutils bzip2 bzip2-libs cairo chkconfig chkfontpath coreutils cpio cpuspeed cracklib cracklib-dicts crash crontabs crypto-utils cryptsetup-luks curl cyrus-sasl cyrus-sasl-lib cyrus-sasl-plain db4 dbus dbus-glib dbus-python desktop-file-utils device-mapper device-mapper-multipath dhcdbd dhclient dhcpv6_client diffutils diskdumputils dmidecode dmraid dump e2fsprogs e2fsprogs-libs ed eject elfutils-libelf elinks emacs emacs-common ethtool exim expat fbset fedora-logos fedora-release fedora-release-notes file filesystem findutils finger fontconfig freetype ftp gamin gawk gd gdbm gettext giflib glib2 glibc glibc-common gmp gnupg gnutls gpm grep groff grub gzip hal hdparm hesiod hicolor-icon-theme htmlview hwdata ifd-egate info initscripts iproute ipsec-tools iptables iptables-ipv6 iptstate iputils irqbalance jwhois kbd kernel-headers kernel-xen kernel-xen kpartx krb5-libs krb5-workstation ksh kudzu less lftp libacl libattr libcap libdaemon libdrm libevent libfontenc libFS libgcc libgcrypt libgpg-error libgssapi libICE libIDL libidn libjpeg libnl libpcap libpng libselinux libselinux-python libsemanage libsepol libSM libstdc++ libsysfs libtermcap libtiff libusb libuser libutempter libvolume_id libwvstreams libX11 libXau libXcursor libXdmcp libXext libXfixes libXfont libXft libXi libXinerama libxml2 libxml2-python libXmu libXpm libXrandr libXrender libXres libxslt libXt libXtst libXxf86vm lockdev logrotate logwatch lsof lvm2 m4 mailcap mailx make MAKEDEV man man-pages mcstrans mdadm mesa-libGL mgetty microcode_ctl mingetty minicom mkinitrd mktemp mlocate module-init-tools mtr mutt nano nash nc ncurses neon netdump net-tools newt newt-perl nscd nspr nss nss_db nss_ldap nss-tools ntp ntsysv numactl openldap openssh openssh-clients openssh-server openssl ORBit2 pam pam_ccreds pam_krb5 pam_passwdqc pam_pkcs11 pam_smb pango parted passwd patch pax pciutils pcmciautils pcre pcsc-lite pcsc-lite-libs perl perl-BSD-Resource perl-String-CRC32 perl-URI pinfo pkgconfig pm-utils policycoreutils popt portmap postgresql-libs ppp prelink procmail procps psacct psmisc pycairo pygobject2 pyorbit python python-elementtree python-sqlite python-urlgrabber quota readline redhat-menus rmt rng-utils rootfiles rpm rpm-libs rpm-python sed selinux-policy selinux-policy-targeted setarch setserial setup setuptool shadow-utils shared-mime-info slang slrn smartmontools specspo sqlite sudo symlinks sysklogd sysreport SysVinit tar tcpdump tcp_wrappers tcsh telnet termcap time tmpwatch traceroute tree ttmkfdir tzdata udev usbutils usermode util-linux vconfig vim-common vim-enhanced vim-minimal vixie-cron wget which words wvdial Xaw3d xorg-x11-filesystem xorg-x11-fonts-ISO8859-1-75dpi xorg-x11-font-utils xorg-x11-xfs yum yum-metadata-parser zlib puppet -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: signature.asc Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 189 bytes Desc: This is a digitally signed message part URL: From jkeating at redhat.com Tue Jan 9 18:10:31 2007 From: jkeating at redhat.com (Jesse Keating) Date: Tue, 9 Jan 2007 13:10:31 -0500 Subject: Fedora 7 and enabling updates repositories at install time In-Reply-To: <1168365958.3578.56.camel@lt21223.campus.dmacc.edu> References: <20070109161721.GA28584@jadzia.bu.edu> <200701091150.49458.jkeating@redhat.com> <1168365958.3578.56.camel@lt21223.campus.dmacc.edu> Message-ID: <200701091310.31368.jkeating@redhat.com> On Tuesday 09 January 2007 13:05, Jeffrey C. Ollie wrote: > Hmm... it could be because I was doing relatively minimal "server" > installs, but I didn't see any evidence of this. ?I'll attach the > (sanitized) kickstart file that I've been using. It could also be that kickstart handles this differently than the GUI, although I would be surprised. -- Jesse Keating Release Engineer: Fedora -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 189 bytes Desc: not available URL: From jima at beer.tclug.org Tue Jan 9 18:09:50 2007 From: jima at beer.tclug.org (Jima) Date: Tue, 9 Jan 2007 12:09:50 -0600 (CST) Subject: Fedora 7 and enabling updates repositories at install time In-Reply-To: <1168365958.3578.56.camel@lt21223.campus.dmacc.edu> References: <20070109161721.GA28584@jadzia.bu.edu> <200701091122.54896.jkeating@redhat.com> <1168360499.3578.28.camel@lt21223.campus.dmacc.edu> <200701091150.49458.jkeating@redhat.com> <1168365958.3578.56.camel@lt21223.campus.dmacc.edu> Message-ID: On Tue, 9 Jan 2007, Jeffrey C. Ollie wrote: > On Tue, 2007-01-09 at 11:50 -0500, Jesse Keating wrote: >> I just remembered what the problem was with FC6+updates. With FC6, the >> content from the extra repos gets installed after the content from the >> CD/DVD/NFS base repo. Since your updates would replace the packages from >> these repos, you get into nasty install problems where you need something >> from one of these repos before the next thing from your base repo. > > Hmm... it could be because I was doing relatively minimal "server" > installs, but I didn't see any evidence of this. I'll attach the > (sanitized) kickstart file that I've been using. My installs, too, were fairly minimal. Perhaps it falls apart with larger packagesets (or maybe specific packages?); I'll poke around a little and see. Jima From gilboad at gmail.com Tue Jan 9 18:20:23 2007 From: gilboad at gmail.com (Gilboa Davara) Date: Tue, 09 Jan 2007 20:20:23 +0200 Subject: F7 KDE spin In-Reply-To: <13dbfe4f0701090923r42ae5aadw5cc65d3a7a90b49b@mail.gmail.com> References: <45A2BABB.2090902@math.unl.edu> <1168337210.26164.7.camel@gilboa-work-dev.localdomain> <1168349230.26164.19.camel@gilboa-work-dev.localdomain> <13dbfe4f0701090923r42ae5aadw5cc65d3a7a90b49b@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <1168366823.2748.20.camel@gilboa-work-dev.localdomain> On Tue, 2007-01-09 at 18:23 +0100, Chitlesh GOORAH wrote: > On 1/9/07, Kevin Kofler wrote: > > I know. I was referring to Evolution alone drawing in most of GNOME as > > dependencies. Now I personally don't have a problem with having to install > > GNOME libraries (I install whatever (appropriately licensed) libraries programs > > I want to use or even just try out require), but I'm not convinced Evolution is > > a good reason to include them. (In fact, it seems to be the most hated default > > app in Fedora judging from the comments on the mailing lists, some GNOME users > > are looking for an alternative too, some even switched to Kontact or KMail.) > > I'll back the idea for not including evolution in KDE spin. > Hmm having evolution on a kde spin isn't really a kde spin. > Kontact is already among core kde packages why should the heck be a > replacement for that ? at least evolution is being supplied on the > repositories. > As far are firefox and openoffice are concerned, I'm ok with them, but > not evolution. > > example: > Kontact communicates very well with kwallet for password storage. Now > if we include evolution in the kde spin, should we be working to > provide such feature for evolution? > > Chitlesh Having evolution in the KDE spin doesn't mean that it has to be the default group-ware client or even installed by default. As weird as it sounds, I want it in -because- it is so d*mn big. According to the Fedora ML usage stats, Evo holds the #1 spot - making it reasonable to guess that many of them are KDE users. Asking them to download 100s of MB during the installation is a mistake. If/when kmail gets a better groupware/exchange integration, it'll be possible to drop evolution. - Gilboa From mclasen at redhat.com Tue Jan 9 18:29:42 2007 From: mclasen at redhat.com (Matthias Clasen) Date: Tue, 09 Jan 2007 13:29:42 -0500 Subject: rawhide report: 20070109 changes In-Reply-To: <15e53e180701090327o3dce4c27ia3d3f4acb30f15f7@mail.gmail.com> References: <200701091117.l09BHhvM004765@hs20-bc2-6.build.redhat.com> <15e53e180701090327o3dce4c27ia3d3f4acb30f15f7@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <1168367383.2964.0.camel@golem.boston.devel.redhat.com> On Tue, 2007-01-09 at 11:27 +0000, Richard Hughes wrote: > On 09/01/07, buildsys at redhat.com wrote: > > New package fast-user-switch-applet > > A panel applet for user-switching > > This uses ConsoleKit, right? > > Richard. > Not yet, since ConsoleKit isn't released yet From fedora at leemhuis.info Tue Jan 9 18:25:54 2007 From: fedora at leemhuis.info (Thorsten Leemhuis) Date: Tue, 09 Jan 2007 19:25:54 +0100 Subject: rawhide report: 20070108 changes In-Reply-To: <200701091304.05604.jkeating@redhat.com> References: <200701081113.l08BDBtT029997@hs20-bc2-6.build.redhat.com> <20070109173914.GB10474@redhat.com> <45A3D700.4060606@leemhuis.info> <200701091304.05604.jkeating@redhat.com> Message-ID: <45A3DE32.4060608@leemhuis.info> Jesse Keating schrieb: > On Tuesday 09 January 2007 12:55, Thorsten Leemhuis wrote: >> There are guidelines for packaging. They contain a standard for naming >> pre-release packages. The kernel package clearly is violating it as the >> version of the kernel is in fact 2.6.20-rc4, but the %version is 2.6.19. >> Can we agree so far? > Actually no. The 2.6.20-rc4 tarball isn't used, rather the 2.6.19 tarball is, > with lots of patches add on top of that. The tarball IMHO is not relevant. The upstream version is 2.6.20-rc4. It's a pre-release. And we have rules for how to package those: http://www.fedoraproject.org/wiki/Packaging/NamingGuidelines Section "Pre-Release packages": http://www.fedoraproject.org/wiki/Packaging/NamingGuidelines#head-d97a3f40b6dd9d2288206ac9bd8f1bf9b791b22a CU thl From fedora at leemhuis.info Tue Jan 9 18:26:32 2007 From: fedora at leemhuis.info (Thorsten Leemhuis) Date: Tue, 09 Jan 2007 19:26:32 +0100 Subject: rawhide report: 20070108 changes In-Reply-To: <20070109180206.GB3417@redhat.com> References: <200701081113.l08BDBtT029997@hs20-bc2-6.build.redhat.com> <1168305395.3159.84.camel@vader.jdub.homelinux.org> <45A342B8.4020706@leemhuis.info> <200701090815.10970.jkeating@redhat.com> <20070109173914.GB10474@redhat.com> <45A3D700.4060606@leemhuis.info> <20070109180206.GB3417@redhat.com> Message-ID: <45A3DE58.3040506@leemhuis.info> Dave Jones schrieb: > On Tue, Jan 09, 2007 at 06:55:12PM +0100, Thorsten Leemhuis wrote: > > Dave Jones schrieb: > > > On Tue, Jan 09, 2007 at 08:15:10AM -0500, Jesse Keating wrote: > > > > On Tuesday 09 January 2007 02:22, Thorsten Leemhuis wrote: > > > > > If I would review the kernel for the extras merge I'd say "fix this". > > > > > But I suspect davej won't like to call the kernels 2.6.20 (e.g. > > > > > 2.6.20-1.2906.rc4.fc7 for example) before they are actually 2.6.20. > > > > > This will be one of the problem areas we'll probably have to deal with > > > > > when it comes to reviewing Core packages for the Extras merge. > > > > Personally, I'm all for giving the kernel a pass on this and some of the > > > > other... interesting things in the spec. That is, unless the reviewer not > > > > only complains about something in the spec, but also produces a viable rework > > > > of what the spec is trying to accomplish. The kernel is one of our speshul > > > > packages that really does need some special consideration. > > > Really. And if you want to do something useful with the kernel package, > > > there's no shortage of real bugs that need fixing. > > > > There are guidelines for packaging. They contain a standard for naming > > pre-release packages. The kernel package clearly is violating it as the > > version of the kernel is in fact 2.6.20-rc4, but the %version is 2.6.19. > > Can we agree so far? > > I don't consider rc's as released versions. The package version number > should state the latest released version that package is based on. > If we were to go down this route, we'd have to contend with the > other upstream naming conventions too. > look at the combinations we have :- 2.6.19, 2.6.19-git1, 2.6.19-rc1, 2.6.19.1, > 2.6.19-rc1-git1, 2.6.19.1-rc1 We have rules to make it work; see: http://www.fedoraproject.org/wiki/Packaging/NamingGuidelines#head-d97a3f40b6dd9d2288206ac9bd8f1bf9b791b22a CU thl From jkeating at redhat.com Tue Jan 9 18:39:23 2007 From: jkeating at redhat.com (Jesse Keating) Date: Tue, 9 Jan 2007 13:39:23 -0500 Subject: rawhide report: 20070108 changes In-Reply-To: <45A3DE32.4060608@leemhuis.info> References: <200701081113.l08BDBtT029997@hs20-bc2-6.build.redhat.com> <200701091304.05604.jkeating@redhat.com> <45A3DE32.4060608@leemhuis.info> Message-ID: <200701091339.23525.jkeating@redhat.com> On Tuesday 09 January 2007 13:25, Thorsten Leemhuis wrote: > The tarball IMHO is not relevant. The upstream version is 2.6.20-rc4. > It's a pre-release. And we have rules for how to package those: > http://www.fedoraproject.org/wiki/Packaging/NamingGuidelines > Section "Pre-Release packages": > http://www.fedoraproject.org/wiki/Packaging/NamingGuidelines#head-d97a3f40b >6dd9d2288206ac9bd8f1bf9b791b22a The tarball used is important in this case. The patches we prepare and such are against the 2.6.19 tarball, NOT the 2.6.20. The unmodified source we're using is 2.6.19 and that defines the release of the package. -- Jesse Keating Release Engineer: Fedora -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 189 bytes Desc: not available URL: From katzj at redhat.com Tue Jan 9 18:38:26 2007 From: katzj at redhat.com (Jeremy Katz) Date: Tue, 09 Jan 2007 13:38:26 -0500 Subject: anaconda-runtime error In-Reply-To: <1168319262.15989.211.camel@ymzhang> References: <1168319262.15989.211.camel@ymzhang> Message-ID: <1168367906.4632.3.camel@aglarond.local> On Tue, 2007-01-09 at 13:07 +0800, Zhang, Yanmin wrote: > I tried to build up a dvd image of ia64 from the latest development tree and got > below error. [snip] > script upd-instroot thinks python version is 2.4 while the correct one is 2.5. > > Below patch against anaconda-11.2.0.7 fixes it. This is actually fixed, we just haven't done a build in a few days while trying to track down the other bogon with rawhide anaconda (ie, not being able to get a dhcp lease) Jeremy From david at lovesunix.net Tue Jan 9 18:58:10 2007 From: david at lovesunix.net (David Nielsen) Date: Tue, 09 Jan 2007 19:58:10 +0100 Subject: F7 kde - suggestion In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <1168369090.3309.468.camel@dawkins> tir, 09 01 2007 kl. 11:09 -0500, skrev Ahm ed: > I have found this "new" menu for kde, which seems rather nice. I have > used it on other distributions and it was fairly effective. It's > called tasty menu. heres the link to the site where I found this app. > http://kde-apps.org/content/show.php?content=41866 > > is where I found it. I post this here incase any of the F7 KDE devs > feel it would be a good addition to the Fedora desktop and possibly > add some polish to the system. Tasty Menu is a KMenu replacement aiming to provide the maximum usability, or at least to be a testbed for usability concepts and ideas for a future kmenu replacement. *looks a screenshot* brain explodes - David Nielsen -- "Ridicule is the only weapon that can be used against unintelligible propositions. Ideas must be distinct before reason can act upon them.? -Thomas Jefferson -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: signature.asc Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 189 bytes Desc: Dette er en digitalt underskrevet brevdel URL: From tmraz at redhat.com Tue Jan 9 19:00:04 2007 From: tmraz at redhat.com (Tomas Mraz) Date: Tue, 09 Jan 2007 20:00:04 +0100 Subject: rawhide report: 20070108 changes In-Reply-To: <200701091339.23525.jkeating@redhat.com> References: <200701081113.l08BDBtT029997@hs20-bc2-6.build.redhat.com> <200701091304.05604.jkeating@redhat.com> <45A3DE32.4060608@leemhuis.info> <200701091339.23525.jkeating@redhat.com> Message-ID: <1168369204.3316.10.camel@perun.kabelta.loc> On Tue, 2007-01-09 at 13:39 -0500, Jesse Keating wrote: > On Tuesday 09 January 2007 13:25, Thorsten Leemhuis wrote: > > The tarball IMHO is not relevant. The upstream version is 2.6.20-rc4. > > It's a pre-release. And we have rules for how to package those: > > http://www.fedoraproject.org/wiki/Packaging/NamingGuidelines > > Section "Pre-Release packages": > > http://www.fedoraproject.org/wiki/Packaging/NamingGuidelines#head-d97a3f40b > >6dd9d2288206ac9bd8f1bf9b791b22a > > The tarball used is important in this case. The patches we prepare and such > are against the 2.6.19 tarball, NOT the 2.6.20. The unmodified source we're > using is 2.6.19 and that defines the release of the package. The first patch applied is the 2.6.20-rc4 patch. So actually all our custom patches which follow it must be adjusted according to that. So although the tarball is 2.6.19 the final kernel definitely is 2.6.20-rc4 + patches. -- Tomas Mraz No matter how far down the wrong road you've gone, turn back. Turkish proverb From chitlesh at fedoraproject.org Tue Jan 9 19:06:55 2007 From: chitlesh at fedoraproject.org (Chitlesh GOORAH) Date: Tue, 9 Jan 2007 20:06:55 +0100 Subject: F7 KDE spin In-Reply-To: <1168366823.2748.20.camel@gilboa-work-dev.localdomain> References: <45A2BABB.2090902@math.unl.edu> <1168337210.26164.7.camel@gilboa-work-dev.localdomain> <1168349230.26164.19.camel@gilboa-work-dev.localdomain> <13dbfe4f0701090923r42ae5aadw5cc65d3a7a90b49b@mail.gmail.com> <1168366823.2748.20.camel@gilboa-work-dev.localdomain> Message-ID: <13dbfe4f0701091106w1553b24fv28b7fcb5f5bb64ca@mail.gmail.com> On 1/9/07, Gilboa Davara wrote: > Asking them to download 100s of MB during the installation is a mistake. Then they will have to download the 100s of MB through downloads! In the end, it is the same thing. I prefer to see some development tools or even engineering/scientific kde tools instead. Chitlesh -- http://clunixchit.blogspot.com From dorin.lazar.liste at gmail.com Tue Jan 9 19:08:25 2007 From: dorin.lazar.liste at gmail.com (Dorin Lazar) Date: Tue, 9 Jan 2007 21:08:25 +0200 Subject: F7 KDE spin In-Reply-To: <1168366823.2748.20.camel@gilboa-work-dev.localdomain> References: <45A2BABB.2090902@math.unl.edu> <13dbfe4f0701090923r42ae5aadw5cc65d3a7a90b49b@mail.gmail.com> <1168366823.2748.20.camel@gilboa-work-dev.localdomain> Message-ID: <200701092108.25370.dorin.lazar.liste@gmail.com> On Tuesday 09 January 2007 20:20, Gilboa Davara wrote: > Having evolution in the KDE spin doesn't mean that it has to be the > default group-ware client or even installed by default. > As weird as it sounds, I want it in -because- it is so d*mn big. > According to the Fedora ML usage stats, Evo holds the #1 spot - making > it reasonable to guess that many of them are KDE users. > Asking them to download 100s of MB during the installation is a mistake. Since that is what the default is, that is what they use. I'm on Fedora, I never used GNOME because I didn't like it (but I tried it everytime). And I am quite happy with what KDE has to offer. Make kontact the default, and you'll have a plethora of kontact users. Or better, make evolution an option, but don't put it in the default settings. After all, I have to check everytime that mc should be put in, and as much as I dislike that (the fact that mc is not default) I got used to it. Also, perhaps the ones that want a KDE-only distro might not like the GNOME apps after all? Dorin From chitlesh at fedoraproject.org Tue Jan 9 19:11:19 2007 From: chitlesh at fedoraproject.org (Chitlesh GOORAH) Date: Tue, 9 Jan 2007 20:11:19 +0100 Subject: F7 KDE spin In-Reply-To: <200701092108.25370.dorin.lazar.liste@gmail.com> References: <45A2BABB.2090902@math.unl.edu> <13dbfe4f0701090923r42ae5aadw5cc65d3a7a90b49b@mail.gmail.com> <1168366823.2748.20.camel@gilboa-work-dev.localdomain> <200701092108.25370.dorin.lazar.liste@gmail.com> Message-ID: <13dbfe4f0701091111ye645dfah39a8d7833da4692@mail.gmail.com> On 1/9/07, Dorin Lazar wrote: > Also, perhaps the ones that want a KDE-only distro might not like the GNOME > apps after all? It's not a question of dislikes, but how much room could we spent on other non-kde apps on the iso image. Chitlesh -- http://clunixchit.blogspot.com From pemboa at gmail.com Tue Jan 9 19:56:59 2007 From: pemboa at gmail.com (Arthur Pemberton) Date: Tue, 9 Jan 2007 13:56:59 -0600 Subject: F7 KDE spin In-Reply-To: <20070109111229.GB2581@free.fr> References: <45A2BABB.2090902@math.unl.edu> <1168337210.26164.7.camel@gilboa-work-dev.localdomain> <20070109111229.GB2581@free.fr> Message-ID: <16de708d0701091156o681b9ca9va3f914c9d6e88da0@mail.gmail.com> On 1/9/07, Patrice Dumas wrote: > On Tue, Jan 09, 2007 at 11:06:46AM +0000, Kevin Kofler wrote: > > Gilboa Davara gmail.com> writes: > > > * non-kde pkgs: firefox, openoffice.org > > > Add evolution. (Required if you need good exchange integration) > > > > Then we end up with 90% of GNOME in the KDE spin... > > firefox and openoffice.org are not gnome apps. The corresponding gnome > apps are epiphany and abiword for ooffice (to my knowledge). As far as I remember those pull in a lot of gnome applications. It would be great if the KDE spin had the firefox patch to get it to use the KDE file browser. > > -- > Pat > > -- > fedora-devel-list mailing list > fedora-devel-list at redhat.com > https://www.redhat.com/mailman/listinfo/fedora-devel-list > -- Fedora Core 6 and proud From pemboa at gmail.com Tue Jan 9 19:58:27 2007 From: pemboa at gmail.com (Arthur Pemberton) Date: Tue, 9 Jan 2007 13:58:27 -0600 Subject: F7 KDE spin In-Reply-To: <1168360736.2748.6.camel@gilboa-work-dev.localdomain> References: <45A2BABB.2090902@math.unl.edu> <1168337210.26164.7.camel@gilboa-work-dev.localdomain> <1168360736.2748.6.camel@gilboa-work-dev.localdomain> Message-ID: <16de708d0701091158w154ad747wa86d9da39aa924e3@mail.gmail.com> On 1/9/07, Gilboa Davara wrote: > On Tue, 2007-01-09 at 09:18 -0600, Rex Dieter wrote: > > Gilboa Davara wrote: > [snip] > > > * non-kde pkgs: firefox, openoffice.org > > > Add evolution. (Required if you need good exchange integration) > > > > /me shudders, but I think I have to agree. > > > > No fear! > So what if you have to include half of GNOME, mono, and 250 other > packages just to get it working... :) But what would that do to the install media size? > > As much as I dislike the-bloat-ware-known-as-evo, it's the best outlook > (*spit) replacement in the OSS world. > Hopefully, kmail will get exchange integration and -decent- * keyboard > navigation in KDE4. -- Fedora Core 6 and proud From pemboa at gmail.com Tue Jan 9 19:55:22 2007 From: pemboa at gmail.com (Arthur Pemberton) Date: Tue, 9 Jan 2007 13:55:22 -0600 Subject: F7 KDE spin In-Reply-To: <45A35AF2.2030500@yahoo.co.uk> References: <45A2BABB.2090902@math.unl.edu> <16de708d0701081825l33023bd4p818ad14919feae0b@mail.gmail.com> <200701082158.03833.lamont@gurulabs.com> <45A35AF2.2030500@yahoo.co.uk> Message-ID: <16de708d0701091155h26fa2d6ci763e3cf700f694db@mail.gmail.com> On 1/9/07, Dariusz J. Garbowski wrote: > On 01/09/2007 04:58 AM, Lamont Peterson wrote: > > On Monday 08 January 2007 07:25pm, Arthur Pemberton wrote: > > >> Lastly, I would like to suggest, if the Gtk-QT engine is used, that > >> some exclusion be made for the system-config tools. I think there are > >> multiple benefits in have the system-config tools look different from > >> the persons desktop applications AND yet "universally" alike. > > > > I like that idea. > > I don't. I like to be able to set fonts, colours, look&feel, etc. once > and for all apps and not having to scratch my head where on earth do I > do that for applications that for some reason do not obey my settings. > Q: How would I do that for system-config anyway then? > > Arthur, can you elaborate on the benefits? 1) Easy to recognize and system applications (generally ran as root) 2) Everything would be "exactly" in the same place on every Fedora install 3) If tutorials including the system-config tools are put up, only one set will be necessary, not one for Gtk+ and one for Gtk-Qt -- Fedora Core 6 and proud From kevin.kofler at chello.at Tue Jan 9 20:03:18 2007 From: kevin.kofler at chello.at (Kevin Kofler) Date: Tue, 9 Jan 2007 20:03:18 +0000 (UTC) Subject: F7 KDE spin References: <45A2BABB.2090902@math.unl.edu> <1168337210.26164.7.camel@gilboa-work-dev.localdomain> <20070109111229.GB2581@free.fr> <16de708d0701091156o681b9ca9va3f914c9d6e88da0@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: Arthur Pemberton gmail.com> writes: > As far as I remember those pull in a lot of gnome applications. It > would be great if the KDE spin had the firefox patch to get it to use > the KDE file browser. If that requires building a completely separate Firefox for the KDE spin, it's probably not going to happen. Currently, not even openoffice.org-kde is being built and that could be done as a separate subpackage (containing only the KDE integration bits, and requiring the main package), unless this has regressed in OO.o 2. (It used to be a separate package in OO.o 1.) It probably requires changes to the main executables though, so it can't be built like some of the plugins currently in Extras are (though I'd love to be proven wrong there ;-) ). Kevin Kofler From jima at beer.tclug.org Tue Jan 9 20:06:28 2007 From: jima at beer.tclug.org (Jima) Date: Tue, 9 Jan 2007 14:06:28 -0600 (CST) Subject: Fedora 7 and enabling updates repositories at install time In-Reply-To: <200701091150.49458.jkeating@redhat.com> References: <20070109161721.GA28584@jadzia.bu.edu> <200701091122.54896.jkeating@redhat.com> <1168360499.3578.28.camel@lt21223.campus.dmacc.edu> <200701091150.49458.jkeating@redhat.com> Message-ID: On Tue, 9 Jan 2007, Jesse Keating wrote: > I just remembered what the problem was with FC6+updates. With FC6, the > content from the extra repos gets installed after the content from the > CD/DVD/NFS base repo. Since your updates would replace the packages from > these repos, you get into nasty install problems where you need something > from one of these repos before the next thing from your base repo. Okay, between my own experimentation, and Jeremy Katz's answers when I probed him on the subject, I take it to mean that what you're saying is true for CD/DVD/NFS-ISO installs. NFS (non-ISO) does, from what I can thus-far tell, allow you to install Updates amongst Core. I imagine this is true of HTTP and FTP installs, as well, but I haven't verified this (just NFS install with HTTP updates). So it works (with some install types), but it doesn't work (for others). At least now we know. Jima From kevin.kofler at chello.at Tue Jan 9 20:08:45 2007 From: kevin.kofler at chello.at (Kevin Kofler) Date: Tue, 9 Jan 2007 20:08:45 +0000 (UTC) Subject: F7 KDE spin References: <45A2BABB.2090902@math.unl.edu> <16de708d0701081825l33023bd4p818ad14919feae0b@mail.gmail.com> <200701082158.03833.lamont@gurulabs.com> <45A35AF2.2030500@yahoo.co.uk> <16de708d0701091155h26fa2d6ci763e3cf700f694db@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: Arthur Pemberton gmail.com> writes: > 3) If tutorials including the system-config tools are put up, only one > set will be necessary, not one for Gtk+ and one for Gtk-Qt The differences between Clearlooks and Plastik are not so big that they warrant a separate version of the tutorials. Heck, a lot of documentation uses screenshots taken on Window$ XP, or on another distribution with a very different theme than Fedora's, or with an excentric custom theme. Also, a lot of the regular GTK+ styles look more different from Clearlooks than Plastik does. Kevin Kofler From jspaleta at gmail.com Tue Jan 9 20:20:43 2007 From: jspaleta at gmail.com (Jeff Spaleta) Date: Tue, 9 Jan 2007 11:20:43 -0900 Subject: Fedora 7 In-Reply-To: <45A3AFF5.7050004@pajato.com> References: <45A3AFF5.7050004@pajato.com> Message-ID: <604aa7910701091220l5a66bd57j6244b57f2eb9c108@mail.gmail.com> On 1/9/07, Paul Michael Reilly wrote: > Speaking from a community perspective, YES. Speaking from a community perspective, i completely and utterly disagree with you. I say we have a dance-dance-revolution dance off to decide which of us really speaks for the community. Go back and read my posts concerning my take on the branding issue. There is room in the spin-space for a Gnome spin that is separate from the Desktop spin, and you'll note that David, a member of the desktop agreed with me about the potential future existence of pure Gnome spin. We absolutely MUST stop this petty bickering over branding. You have to view this entire Fedora project experiment as an incremental growth process. If you ball your fist and shake it in the air shouting 'viva la revolution' at every opportunity you are missing the whole point about building a sustainable long term collaboration space. I think its pretty clear, that there is a substantial communication break-down specifically with the Desktop team which is impairing our ability to plan for the future. We aren't going to fix the fundamental communication issue, by standing on soapboxes and demanding to be heard or demanding that current decisions be undone. We may have a chance to fix some of the underlying communication issues at FudCon so we can avoid further bloodshed for the future. I swear to Bob that I'm going to make sure that everyone when my physical reach during any discussions over the communication gap will participating in such discussion in a constructive conversation about how to fix it, instead of just throwing around blame and accusations. Herding cats is hard, but I found you can get a misbehaving cat to respond to you with a simple squirt of water from a spray bottle. We'll see if the save corrective action works for codemonkeys at FUDCon. But more importantly in the near term. the fact that there is going to be a KDE spin is a fundamentally important step in terms of opening the process for community involvement. How about we, as engaged and proactive community members, focus on making the technical side of that happen. Whether the Desktop spin is called the Desktop spin or the 'Office Professional Workforce of Doom' spin its trivially unimportant compared to helping Rex get the KDE spin out the door. The WHOLE idea of opening up the spin space for community involvement is way way way too new to be hung up over what this crap is going to be called in the long run. It's an evolving process, and we need to learn when to put away the pitchforks and torches and accept incremental gains, learn to accept that disagreements will happen in the short term, and learn to accept that there is value towards building long term consensus by the application of persist ant and rational lobbying for ideas. We absolutely MUST stop creating bad blood by insisting on belaboring the flaws in how communication between Core planning and community planning as been so far handled. What is happening right now isn't helping, all we are doing now is fostering a environment where people are talking past each other. The Desktop spin is meant to be a best-of-breed spin, which may change over time as applications change. That is not a bad thing. There is room in spin space for both a Gnome and KDE spin in addition to the Desktop spin, as I have written in previous posts. Time will tell if the Gnome zealots who would like to see a vanilla Gnome application stack in a spin including gnumeric,abiword,ephinany will step up and manage the creation of a purist Gnome spin that does not suffer from the application best-of-breed trade-offs in the Desktop spin. -jef"my pitchfork is bigger than yours"spaleta From drago01 at gmail.com Tue Jan 9 20:34:01 2007 From: drago01 at gmail.com (dragoran) Date: Tue, 09 Jan 2007 21:34:01 +0100 Subject: Fedora 7 In-Reply-To: <604aa7910701091220l5a66bd57j6244b57f2eb9c108@mail.gmail.com> References: <45A3AFF5.7050004@pajato.com> <604aa7910701091220l5a66bd57j6244b57f2eb9c108@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <45A3FC39.3060604@gmail.com> Jeff Spaleta wrote: > [...] > +1 From luya_tfz at thefinalzone.com Tue Jan 9 20:34:56 2007 From: luya_tfz at thefinalzone.com (Luya Tshimbalanga) Date: Tue, 9 Jan 2007 15:34:56 -0500 Subject: Sound effects issues In-Reply-To: <1168374585.45a3fb3981efc@ssl.mecca.ca> References: <1168374585.45a3fb3981efc@ssl.mecca.ca> Message-ID: <1168374896.45a3fc7022bbc@ssl.mecca.ca> As suggested by David Zeuthen, here is the post about sound effect for Fedora desktop. Some desktops users notice Fedora does not have its own sound effects theme because it use the generic theme from Gnome. I wonder if there is a sound artist willing to develop a sound theme for Fedora. I also wonder if there is a possibility to support .ogg and .flac for the sound effects as the current version only use .wav. It is odd that Gnome doesn't support these open source format. Original discussion: http://www.redhat.com/archives/fedora-art-list/2007-January/msg00026.html -- Luya Tshimbalanga Fedora Project contributor http://www.fedoraproject.org/wiki/LuyaTshimbalanga From pemboa at gmail.com Tue Jan 9 20:47:36 2007 From: pemboa at gmail.com (Arthur Pemberton) Date: Tue, 9 Jan 2007 14:47:36 -0600 Subject: F7 KDE spin In-Reply-To: References: <45A2BABB.2090902@math.unl.edu> <16de708d0701081825l33023bd4p818ad14919feae0b@mail.gmail.com> <200701082158.03833.lamont@gurulabs.com> <45A35AF2.2030500@yahoo.co.uk> <16de708d0701091155h26fa2d6ci763e3cf700f694db@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <16de708d0701091247r547e823eta921f900e10ae0a6@mail.gmail.com> On 1/9/07, Kevin Kofler wrote: > Arthur Pemberton gmail.com> writes: > > 3) If tutorials including the system-config tools are put up, only one > > set will be necessary, not one for Gtk+ and one for Gtk-Qt > > The differences between Clearlooks and Plastik are not so big that they warrant > a separate version of the tutorials. Heck, a lot of documentation uses > screenshots taken on Window$ XP, or on another distribution with a very > different theme than Fedora's, or with an excentric custom theme. Also, a lot > of the regular GTK+ styles look more different from Clearlooks than Plastik > does. > > Kevin Kofler Fair enough, I guess we'll see how that plays out. -- Fedora Core 6 and proud From jkeating at redhat.com Tue Jan 9 21:00:00 2007 From: jkeating at redhat.com (Jesse Keating) Date: Tue, 9 Jan 2007 16:00:00 -0500 Subject: Fedora 7 and enabling updates repositories at install time In-Reply-To: References: <20070109161721.GA28584@jadzia.bu.edu> <200701091150.49458.jkeating@redhat.com> Message-ID: <200701091600.01052.jkeating@redhat.com> On Tuesday 09 January 2007 15:06, Jima wrote: > ? Okay, between my own experimentation, and Jeremy Katz's answers when I > probed him on the subject, I take it to mean that what you're saying is > true for CD/DVD/NFS-ISO installs. ?NFS (non-ISO) does, from what I can > thus-far tell, allow you to install Updates amongst Core. ?I imagine this > is true of HTTP and FTP installs, as well, but I haven't verified this > (just NFS install with HTTP updates). > ? So it works (with some install types), but it doesn't work (for others). > At least now we know. Thanks for the research. I'd rather not promote a usage that doesn't work across our installation types, and I don't feel all that great about this being fixed for cd/dvd media for this release. -- Jesse Keating Release Engineer: Fedora -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 189 bytes Desc: not available URL: From wtogami at redhat.com Tue Jan 9 21:01:43 2007 From: wtogami at redhat.com (Warren Togami) Date: Tue, 09 Jan 2007 16:01:43 -0500 Subject: Sound effects issues In-Reply-To: <1168374896.45a3fc7022bbc@ssl.mecca.ca> References: <1168374585.45a3fb3981efc@ssl.mecca.ca> <1168374896.45a3fc7022bbc@ssl.mecca.ca> Message-ID: <45A402B7.6080009@redhat.com> Luya Tshimbalanga wrote: > As suggested by David Zeuthen, here is the post about sound effect for Fedora > desktop. > > Some desktops users notice Fedora does not have its own sound effects > theme because it use the generic theme from Gnome. I wonder if there is > a sound artist willing to develop a sound theme for Fedora. Usually the case is "just do it" and propose it, but given tight schedules and other priorities it might be too late for Fedora 7. I dunno, maybe if you *wow* everyone with an amazing theme and everyone likes it real soon it might be possible. But this is doubtful. > > I also wonder if there is a possibility to support .ogg and .flac for > the sound effects as the current version only use .wav. It is odd that Gnome > doesn't support these open source format. For this part of your question, this really must be handled upstream as the code for it would need to be included there first. Warren Togami wtogami at redhat.com From jkeating at redhat.com Tue Jan 9 21:02:41 2007 From: jkeating at redhat.com (Jesse Keating) Date: Tue, 9 Jan 2007 16:02:41 -0500 Subject: Fedora 7 In-Reply-To: <604aa7910701091220l5a66bd57j6244b57f2eb9c108@mail.gmail.com> References: <45A3AFF5.7050004@pajato.com> <604aa7910701091220l5a66bd57j6244b57f2eb9c108@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <200701091602.41243.jkeating@redhat.com> On Tuesday 09 January 2007 15:20, Jeff Spaleta wrote: > -jef"my pitchfork is bigger than yours"spaleta Thanks Jeff. A very good post on the matter. -- Jesse Keating Release Engineer: Fedora -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 189 bytes Desc: not available URL: From jima at beer.tclug.org Tue Jan 9 21:27:54 2007 From: jima at beer.tclug.org (Jima) Date: Tue, 9 Jan 2007 15:27:54 -0600 (CST) Subject: Fedora 7 and enabling updates repositories at install time In-Reply-To: <200701091600.01052.jkeating@redhat.com> References: <20070109161721.GA28584@jadzia.bu.edu> <200701091150.49458.jkeating@redhat.com> <200701091600.01052.jkeating@redhat.com> Message-ID: On Tue, 9 Jan 2007, Jesse Keating wrote: > Thanks for the research. I'd rather not promote a usage that doesn't work > across our installation types, and I don't feel all that great about this > being fixed for cd/dvd media for this release. Fair enough. Here's to hoping this feature can make it into F8! :) Jima From mattdm at mattdm.org Tue Jan 9 21:48:41 2007 From: mattdm at mattdm.org (Matthew Miller) Date: Tue, 9 Jan 2007 16:48:41 -0500 Subject: Fedora 7 and enabling updates repositories at install time In-Reply-To: <200701091600.01052.jkeating@redhat.com> References: <20070109161721.GA28584@jadzia.bu.edu> <200701091150.49458.jkeating@redhat.com> <200701091600.01052.jkeating@redhat.com> Message-ID: <20070109214841.GA12186@jadzia.bu.edu> On Tue, Jan 09, 2007 at 04:00:00PM -0500, Jesse Keating wrote: > Thanks for the research. I'd rather not promote a usage that doesn't work > across our installation types, and I don't feel all that great about this > being fixed for cd/dvd media for this release. I don't think it's bad to introduce this for network installs only for Fedora 7. If you're doing a cd/dvd install, you already have the old packages, so it doesn't really matter if you download the updates now or a bit later. With a network install, though, without including the updates, you download the packages and then potentially the same packages again. This is not insignificant -- there are currently 944 latest-version-only rpms in FC6 x86_64 updates, totaling 2.4 GB. That's a full two-thirds of the original distribution! And that's not even considering Extras. -- Matthew Miller mattdm at mattdm.org Boston University Linux ------> From orion at cora.nwra.com Tue Jan 9 22:09:24 2007 From: orion at cora.nwra.com (Orion Poplawski) Date: Tue, 09 Jan 2007 15:09:24 -0700 Subject: Fedora 7 and enabling updates repositories at install time In-Reply-To: <200701091122.54896.jkeating@redhat.com> References: <20070109161721.GA28584@jadzia.bu.edu> <200701091122.54896.jkeating@redhat.com> Message-ID: Jesse Keating wrote: > On Tuesday 09 January 2007 11:17, Matthew Miller wrote: >> So, are we ready for this? > > Has there been any testing with this using FC6 installs? You can enable any > repo, what kind of problems / success have people been having with this? > > Sucks up memory: https://bugzilla.redhat.com/bugzilla/show_bug.cgi?id=216677 -- Orion Poplawski Technical Manager 303-415-9701 x222 NWRA/CoRA Division FAX: 303-415-9702 3380 Mitchell Lane orion at cora.nwra.com Boulder, CO 80301 http://www.cora.nwra.com From jkeating at redhat.com Tue Jan 9 22:25:00 2007 From: jkeating at redhat.com (Jesse Keating) Date: Tue, 9 Jan 2007 17:25:00 -0500 Subject: Fedora 7 and enabling updates repositories at install time In-Reply-To: <20070109214841.GA12186@jadzia.bu.edu> References: <20070109161721.GA28584@jadzia.bu.edu> <200701091600.01052.jkeating@redhat.com> <20070109214841.GA12186@jadzia.bu.edu> Message-ID: <200701091725.00875.jkeating@redhat.com> On Tuesday 09 January 2007 16:48, Matthew Miller wrote: > I don't think it's bad to introduce this for network installs only for > Fedora 7. If you're doing a cd/dvd install, you already have the old > packages, so it doesn't really matter if you download the updates now or a > bit later. With a network install, though, without including the updates, > you download the packages and then potentially the same packages again. > > This is not insignificant -- there are currently 944 latest-version-only > rpms in FC6 x86_64 updates, totaling 2.4 GB. That's a full two-thirds of > the original distribution! > > And that's not even considering Extras. Well, it's not really 'introducing' as the functionality is there, you just have to add your repo. I hoped to get testing on this after F6 released, and we still can if you're doing network installs. Same can continue through F7, we could even state that you could do this. I don't want to put UI in the installer that we know would break if you're doing a CD install. (UI being a checkbox to enable updates) -- Jesse Keating Release Engineer: Fedora -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 189 bytes Desc: not available URL: From orion at cora.nwra.com Tue Jan 9 22:41:34 2007 From: orion at cora.nwra.com (Orion Poplawski) Date: Tue, 09 Jan 2007 15:41:34 -0700 Subject: experimental 2.6.19 kernel preview. In-Reply-To: <20070107040605.GC1905@redhat.com> References: <1167812088.3567.9.camel@sonlaptop> <20070103173644.GA3862@kerouac> <20070103190743.6bd0fef8@lain.camperquake.de> <20070103191657.GB3862@kerouac> <20070103225824.GA11354@redhat.com> <20070104090244.115940@gmx.net> <20070104172302.GB3129@redhat.com> <20070107040605.GC1905@redhat.com> Message-ID: Some notes: < sizeof(inode)=424 bytes < sizeof(dentry)=148 bytes < sizeof(ext3inode)=600 bytes < sizeof(buffer_head)=52 bytes --- > sizeof(inode)=568 bytes > sizeof(dentry)=156 bytes > sizeof(ext3inode)=804 bytes > sizeof(buffer_head)=56 bytes I thought work was being done to *reduce* the size of inodes? Or is this the result of the debug stuff? Found a new device: > iTCO_wdt: Intel TCO WatchDog Timer Driver v1.00 (08-Oct-2006) > iTCO_wdt: Found a ICH3-M TCO device (Version=1, TCOBASE=0x0860) > iTCO_wdt: initialized. heartbeat=30 sec (nowayout=0) Otherwise fine. -- Orion Poplawski Technical Manager 303-415-9701 x222 NWRA/CoRA Division FAX: 303-415-9702 3380 Mitchell Lane orion at cora.nwra.com Boulder, CO 80301 http://www.cora.nwra.com From andrewparker at bigfoot.com Tue Jan 9 22:49:27 2007 From: andrewparker at bigfoot.com (Andrew Parker) Date: Tue, 9 Jan 2007 17:49:27 -0500 Subject: F7 KDE spin In-Reply-To: <13dbfe4f0701091106w1553b24fv28b7fcb5f5bb64ca@mail.gmail.com> References: <45A2BABB.2090902@math.unl.edu> <1168337210.26164.7.camel@gilboa-work-dev.localdomain> <1168349230.26164.19.camel@gilboa-work-dev.localdomain> <13dbfe4f0701090923r42ae5aadw5cc65d3a7a90b49b@mail.gmail.com> <1168366823.2748.20.camel@gilboa-work-dev.localdomain> <13dbfe4f0701091106w1553b24fv28b7fcb5f5bb64ca@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <6c3f5e6c0701091449r4aeceda1pea72b93f70b6215c@mail.gmail.com> On 1/9/07, Chitlesh GOORAH wrote: > On 1/9/07, Gilboa Davara wrote: > > Asking them to download 100s of MB during the installation is a mistake. > > Then they will have to download the 100s of MB through downloads! > In the end, it is the same thing. Downloading hundreds of different files is much slower than downloading one file of the same size. Also, the initial spin is likely (?) to be downloaded via bittorrent, which is not an option for yum when it needs individual packages. A single iso download can also feed multiple PCs (up to 5 in my case), which is far more efficient than downloading the same hundreds of files several times over. From gianluca.cecchi at gmail.com Tue Jan 9 23:11:26 2007 From: gianluca.cecchi at gmail.com (Gianluca Cecchi) Date: Wed, 10 Jan 2007 00:11:26 +0100 Subject: [OT] kvm kernel module in fc6? Message-ID: <561c252c0701091511p73488ae4q259d612b71ec3694@mail.gmail.com> Hello, probably more correct to post to fedora extra, but as kernel is also affected, I try to post also here. Sorry for your extra-time. I have an updated fc6 (2.6.18-1.2869.fc6) and I installed the kvm-9-1.i386.rpm package found under extras-development. But this gives me only the user space modified version of qemu (qemu-kvm is the only file included). I'm able to run for example the iso of the fc6 live cd without problem. When running it I'm obviously receiving the message that /dev/kvm is not found and that kvm will so be turned off. In case I want to run Windows inside it, can I find the pre-compiled version of kvm for fc6 anywhere or should I download the source and self compile? I have a quad core system based on a p5b-vm mb so that I would like to test vt technology. Thanks in advance for your help, Gianluca From katzj at redhat.com Tue Jan 9 23:18:04 2007 From: katzj at redhat.com (Jeremy Katz) Date: Tue, 09 Jan 2007 18:18:04 -0500 Subject: [OT] kvm kernel module in fc6? In-Reply-To: <561c252c0701091511p73488ae4q259d612b71ec3694@mail.gmail.com> References: <561c252c0701091511p73488ae4q259d612b71ec3694@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <1168384684.4632.21.camel@aglarond.local> On Wed, 2007-01-10 at 00:11 +0100, Gianluca Cecchi wrote: > probably more correct to post to fedora extra, but as kernel is also > affected, I try to post also here. Sorry for your extra-time. > I have an updated fc6 (2.6.18-1.2869.fc6) and I installed the > kvm-9-1.i386.rpm package found under extras-development. > But this gives me only the user space modified version of qemu > (qemu-kvm is the only file included). It's intentionally in the devel tree only as that's the only place where the kernel has the support. When the FC6 kernel goes to 2.6.20 (which it eventually will), then adding the package for FE6 will make sense. Jeremy From jkeating at redhat.com Tue Jan 9 23:20:02 2007 From: jkeating at redhat.com (Jesse Keating) Date: Tue, 9 Jan 2007 18:20:02 -0500 Subject: [OT] kvm kernel module in fc6? In-Reply-To: <561c252c0701091511p73488ae4q259d612b71ec3694@mail.gmail.com> References: <561c252c0701091511p73488ae4q259d612b71ec3694@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <200701091820.05912.jkeating@redhat.com> On Tuesday 09 January 2007 18:11, Gianluca Cecchi wrote: > Hello, > probably more correct to post to fedora extra, but as kernel is also > affected, I try to post also here. Sorry for your extra-time. > I have an updated fc6 (2.6.18-1.2869.fc6) and I installed the > kvm-9-1.i386.rpm package found under extras-development. > But this gives me only the user space modified version of qemu > (qemu-kvm is the only file included). > I'm able to run for example the iso of the fc6 live cd without problem. > When running it I'm obviously receiving the message that /dev/kvm is > not found and that kvm will so be turned off. > In case I want to run Windows inside it, can I find the pre-compiled > version of kvm for fc6 anywhere or should I download the source and > self compile? > I have a quad core system based on a p5b-vm mb so that I would like to > test vt technology. > Thanks in advance for your help, > Gianluca Please don't cross post. You really shouldn't mix extras-development with Core 6. The two are not designed to work with eachother. For using KVM, you really need the kernel from rawhide (fedora development). However, there be dragons there. Your milage may vary. -- Jesse Keating Release Engineer: Fedora -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 189 bytes Desc: not available URL: From davej at redhat.com Tue Jan 9 23:47:36 2007 From: davej at redhat.com (Dave Jones) Date: Tue, 9 Jan 2007 18:47:36 -0500 Subject: experimental 2.6.19 kernel preview. In-Reply-To: References: <1167812088.3567.9.camel@sonlaptop> <20070103173644.GA3862@kerouac> <20070103190743.6bd0fef8@lain.camperquake.de> <20070103191657.GB3862@kerouac> <20070103225824.GA11354@redhat.com> <20070104090244.115940@gmx.net> <20070104172302.GB3129@redhat.com> <20070107040605.GC1905@redhat.com> Message-ID: <20070109234736.GF17080@redhat.com> On Tue, Jan 09, 2007 at 03:41:34PM -0700, Orion Poplawski wrote: > Some notes: > > < sizeof(inode)=424 bytes > < sizeof(dentry)=148 bytes > < sizeof(ext3inode)=600 bytes > < sizeof(buffer_head)=52 bytes > --- > > sizeof(inode)=568 bytes > > sizeof(dentry)=156 bytes > > sizeof(ext3inode)=804 bytes > > sizeof(buffer_head)=56 bytes > > I thought work was being done to *reduce* the size of inodes? Or is > this the result of the debug stuff? yes. various structs in the debug kernel will be bigger. Dave -- http://www.codemonkey.org.uk From vonbrand at inf.utfsm.cl Wed Jan 10 00:03:08 2007 From: vonbrand at inf.utfsm.cl (Horst H. von Brand) Date: Tue, 09 Jan 2007 21:03:08 -0300 Subject: rawhide report: 20070108 changes In-Reply-To: Message from Jesse Keating of "Tue, 09 Jan 2007 13:39:23 CDT." <200701091339.23525.jkeating@redhat.com> Message-ID: <200701100003.l0A038Cc008934@laptop13.inf.utfsm.cl> Jesse Keating wrote: > On Tuesday 09 January 2007 13:25, Thorsten Leemhuis wrote: > > The tarball IMHO is not relevant. The upstream version is 2.6.20-rc4. > > It's a pre-release. And we have rules for how to package those: > > http://www.fedoraproject.org/wiki/Packaging/NamingGuidelines > > Section "Pre-Release packages": > > http://www.fedoraproject.org/wiki/Packaging/NamingGuidelines#head-d97a3f40b > >6dd9d2288206ac9bd8f1bf9b791b22a > The tarball used is important in this case. This is rather thin... > The patches we prepare and such > are against the 2.6.19 tarball, NOT the 2.6.20. The unmodified source we're > using is 2.6.19 and that defines the release of the package. I'd just go with "It's in between 2.6.19 and 2.6.20, so 2.9.19-. This is much simpler than the scheme proposed above. Or use that scheme /only/ if it is a rather long-lived "in-between" version that has its own "name recognition" (i.e., under duress). In the kernel's case the -rcX are short-lived. Besides, basing /any/ decision on the rcX number is misguided. It has happened that features are included and then ripped out again, and features in the vanilla kernel aren't in the distribution kernels, and viceversa. -- Dr. Horst H. von Brand User #22616 counter.li.org Departamento de Informatica Fono: +56 32 2654431 Universidad Tecnica Federico Santa Maria +56 32 2654239 Casilla 110-V, Valparaiso, Chile Fax: +56 32 2797513 From vonbrand at inf.utfsm.cl Wed Jan 10 00:22:12 2007 From: vonbrand at inf.utfsm.cl (Horst H. von Brand) Date: Tue, 09 Jan 2007 21:22:12 -0300 Subject: Fedora 7 In-Reply-To: Your message of "Mon, 08 Jan 2007 22:37:17 +1800." <16de708d0701072037g77364ae3wafaafe136ff6d579@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <200701100022.l0A0MCU3009288@laptop13.inf.utfsm.cl> Arthur Pemberton wrote: > On 1/8/07, Horst H. von Brand wrote: > > Arthur Pemberton wrote: [...] > > > That's great. I don't even ask for the word 'support' to be used, I > > > would be happy with: > > > > > > * works with clean fedora (no binary blob drivers or firmware required) > > > * works with non fedora worthy firmware > > > * works in Linux, but not Fedora ready (or clean enough) > > > * no idea > > > * doesn't work > > Who would compile and keep this up to date? Have you any idea of how many > > brands and models of different pieces are around? > The community would. For example: > > 1) I install F7 OK. > 2) My tv card works immediately without any additional drivers Or it doesn't. > 3) I pull the card info from available sources Which ones? > 4) I add it to the db if it isn't already there Who checks your entry is correct? What happens if you reported it didn't work, and it works fine for me, or viceversa? [...] > All I'm asking for a Fedora blessed infrastructure to be put in place, > not for any one person to be responsible for populating it This requires manpower (to check for junk, to clean up entries, to discriminate among conclicting entries, ...). Ask the people at if this is a trivial job. And printers are outside the box, so it is /simple/ compared to all possible strange interactions among in-box pieces. > The benefit of this being that next time I'm buying hardware, I can > scurry over to the db and check what the best options are. For higher-end stuff the data is usually at hand, for el-cheapo not (and better stay away from that in any case). -- Dr. Horst H. von Brand User #22616 counter.li.org Departamento de Informatica Fono: +56 32 2654431 Universidad Tecnica Federico Santa Maria +56 32 2654239 Casilla 110-V, Valparaiso, Chile Fax: +56 32 2797513 From jeff at ocjtech.us Wed Jan 10 00:34:09 2007 From: jeff at ocjtech.us (Jeffrey C. Ollie) Date: Tue, 09 Jan 2007 18:34:09 -0600 Subject: Fedora 7 and enabling updates repositories at install time In-Reply-To: <200701091725.00875.jkeating@redhat.com> References: <20070109161721.GA28584@jadzia.bu.edu> <200701091600.01052.jkeating@redhat.com> <20070109214841.GA12186@jadzia.bu.edu> <200701091725.00875.jkeating@redhat.com> Message-ID: <1168389250.3340.5.camel@lt21223.campus.dmacc.edu> On Tue, 2007-01-09 at 17:25 -0500, Jesse Keating wrote: > > Well, it's not really 'introducing' as the functionality is there, you just > have to add your repo. I hoped to get testing on this after F6 released, and > we still can if you're doing network installs. Same can continue through F7, > we could even state that you could do this. I don't want to put UI in the > installer that we know would break if you're doing a CD install. (UI being a > checkbox to enable updates) Since Anaconda would know what type of install it's doing, it could hide the extra repo selection UI for known not-working installs. The other bit of UI that would be needed would be the ability to change/edit the mirror that the repos were being fetched from. It'd also be nice to be able to specify a proxy server for http/ftp installs. Jeff -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: signature.asc Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 189 bytes Desc: This is a digitally signed message part URL: From mattdm at mattdm.org Wed Jan 10 02:17:11 2007 From: mattdm at mattdm.org (Matthew Miller) Date: Tue, 9 Jan 2007 21:17:11 -0500 Subject: Fedora 7 and enabling updates repositories at install time In-Reply-To: <200701091725.00875.jkeating@redhat.com> References: <20070109161721.GA28584@jadzia.bu.edu> <200701091600.01052.jkeating@redhat.com> <20070109214841.GA12186@jadzia.bu.edu> <200701091725.00875.jkeating@redhat.com> Message-ID: <20070110021711.GA26539@jadzia.bu.edu> On Tue, Jan 09, 2007 at 05:25:00PM -0500, Jesse Keating wrote: > > I don't think it's bad to introduce this for network installs only for > > Fedora 7. If you're doing a cd/dvd install, you already have the old [...] > Well, it's not really 'introducing' as the functionality is there, you just > have to add your repo. I hoped to get testing on this after F6 released, and > we still can if you're doing network installs. Same can continue through F7, > we could even state that you could do this. I don't want to put UI in the > installer that we know would break if you're doing a CD install. (UI being a > checkbox to enable updates) Yes, having it be a checkbox in the UI and on by default for network installs is the new functionality I'd really like to see. If it doesn't work for non-network installs at this point, it could be hidden, or greyed out with explanatory text. The minor other logic that would rationally go with this is the ability to find the corresponding updates directory on a standard mirror layout for the release to be installed, given the path to the main repo. -- Matthew Miller mattdm at mattdm.org Boston University Linux ------> From yanmin_zhang at linux.intel.com Wed Jan 10 03:05:53 2007 From: yanmin_zhang at linux.intel.com (Zhang, Yanmin) Date: Wed, 10 Jan 2007 11:05:53 +0800 Subject: [Fedora-ia64-list] Re: anaconda-runtime error In-Reply-To: <1168367906.4632.3.camel@aglarond.local> References: <1168319262.15989.211.camel@ymzhang> <1168367906.4632.3.camel@aglarond.local> Message-ID: <1168398353.15989.218.camel@ymzhang> On Tue, 2007-01-09 at 13:38 -0500, Jeremy Katz wrote: > On Tue, 2007-01-09 at 13:07 +0800, Zhang, Yanmin wrote: > > I tried to build up a dvd image of ia64 from the latest development tree and got > > below error. > [snip] > > script upd-instroot thinks python version is 2.4 while the correct one is 2.5. > > > > Below patch against anaconda-11.2.0.7 fixes it. > > This is actually fixed, we just haven't done a build in a few days while > trying to track down the other bogon with rawhide anaconda (ie, not > being able to get a dhcp lease) When will anaconda rpm be rebuilt? I buildup DVD image from the latest development fedora tree and ran into lots of issues. By walkaround, I bypassed many issues (couldn't find cd/hard disk/ip address) and anaconda reported dm.c:1565 error when installing. I suspect anaconda didn't mount proc after chrooting to stage2 root. Yanmin From jkeating at redhat.com Wed Jan 10 03:28:13 2007 From: jkeating at redhat.com (Jesse Keating) Date: Tue, 9 Jan 2007 22:28:13 -0500 Subject: [Fedora-ia64-list] Re: anaconda-runtime error In-Reply-To: <1168398353.15989.218.camel@ymzhang> References: <1168319262.15989.211.camel@ymzhang> <1168367906.4632.3.camel@aglarond.local> <1168398353.15989.218.camel@ymzhang> Message-ID: <200701092228.17083.jkeating@redhat.com> On Tuesday 09 January 2007 22:05, Zhang, Yanmin wrote: > > being able to get a dhcp lease) > > When will anaconda rpm be rebuilt? I buildup DVD image from the latest > development fedora tree and ran into lots of issues. > By walkaround, I bypassed many issues (couldn't find cd/hard disk/ip > address) and anaconda reported dm.c:1565 error when installing. > > I suspect anaconda didn't mount proc after chrooting to stage2 root. New anaconda will be available in tonight's rawhide spin. Should fix many of the issues we're seeing. -- Jesse Keating Release Engineer: Fedora -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 189 bytes Desc: not available URL: From jkeating at redhat.com Wed Jan 10 03:29:54 2007 From: jkeating at redhat.com (Jesse Keating) Date: Tue, 9 Jan 2007 22:29:54 -0500 Subject: Fedora 7 and enabling updates repositories at install time In-Reply-To: <20070110021711.GA26539@jadzia.bu.edu> References: <20070109161721.GA28584@jadzia.bu.edu> <200701091725.00875.jkeating@redhat.com> <20070110021711.GA26539@jadzia.bu.edu> Message-ID: <200701092229.54100.jkeating@redhat.com> On Tuesday 09 January 2007 21:17, Matthew Miller wrote: > Yes, having it be a checkbox in the UI and on by default for network > installs is the new functionality I'd really like to see. If it doesn't > work for non-network installs at this point, it could be hidden, or greyed > out with explanatory text. Well, its not just networked installs, but http/ftp/nfs(non-iso), so basically all but nfs-iso, and well nfs-iso and CD/DVD with network enabled for things like VNC, but I digress. I won't comment on what it would take to make this happen, I'll let the anaconda devs do that. > The minor other logic that would rationally go with this is the ability to > find the corresponding updates directory on a standard mirror layout for > the release to be installed, given the path to the main repo. Seems somewhat reasonable. -- Jesse Keating Release Engineer: Fedora -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 189 bytes Desc: not available URL: From lists at sapience.com Wed Jan 10 04:27:30 2007 From: lists at sapience.com (Mail List) Date: Tue, 9 Jan 2007 23:27:30 -0500 Subject: F7 KDE spin In-Reply-To: <45A2BABB.2090902@math.unl.edu> References: <45A2BABB.2090902@math.unl.edu> Message-ID: <200701092327.30149.lists@sapience.com> On Monday 08 January 2007 16:42, Rex Dieter wrote: > OK, I've slapped down a quick-n-dirty laundry list of items off the top > of my head to get started on the F7 KDE spin: > http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Releases/FeatureFedoraKDE > > Folks are welcome to contribute, criticize, add-to. > > -- Rex 1st - Great!!! Thank you. I assume that one can still do things like yum install evolution with the kde spin ? 2nd - firefox should probably be included or easy to yum install - its the de facto standard. 3rd - whilst I use kmail (kontact) and mostly like it I have some reservations - i am using it - almost exclusively - but: (a) it crashes (segv) a lot (imap) - bugs happen but response to fix things like this is very slow (bug reported july 2006 bug #128593) - this response to fix bugs worries me - its still in the same state. In fact, the only comments are to mark other bugs as dups - ie zero (zarro??) progress in fixing this critical bug ... and I think this may not be abnormal. (b) it cannot reply to html formatted mail without destroying the mail. In practice this makes it very hard to use in the corporate world. This has been an open request since err 2004 (bug #86423) - html is a fact of life - kmail is the only graphical MUA which cannot handle html. Even outlook does this right! So I somewhat reluctantly suggest evolution be added or easy to yum install for practical reasons - this may drag in some gnome libraries which is fine in my (obviously personal and biased) view. As long as folks can just install this anyway it probably doesn't matter. Evo is far from perfect too but ... Thanks again ... gene/ From lists at sapience.com Wed Jan 10 04:29:18 2007 From: lists at sapience.com (Mail List) Date: Tue, 9 Jan 2007 23:29:18 -0500 Subject: F7 KDE spin In-Reply-To: <45A2BABB.2090902@math.unl.edu> References: <45A2BABB.2090902@math.unl.edu> Message-ID: <200701092329.18321.lists@sapience.com> On Monday 08 January 2007 16:42, Rex Dieter wrote: > OK, I've slapped down a quick-n-dirty laundry list of items off the top > of my head to get started on the F7 KDE spin: > http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Releases/FeatureFedoraKDE > > Folks are welcome to contribute, criticize, add-to. > > -- Rex I think openoffice is also kinda important - but may be one of those if you want it, yum install it kinda things. gene From rc040203 at freenet.de Wed Jan 10 05:08:52 2007 From: rc040203 at freenet.de (Ralf Corsepius) Date: Wed, 10 Jan 2007 06:08:52 +0100 Subject: F7 KDE spin In-Reply-To: <6c3f5e6c0701091449r4aeceda1pea72b93f70b6215c@mail.gmail.com> References: <45A2BABB.2090902@math.unl.edu> <1168337210.26164.7.camel@gilboa-work-dev.localdomain> <1168349230.26164.19.camel@gilboa-work-dev.localdomain> <13dbfe4f0701090923r42ae5aadw5cc65d3a7a90b49b@mail.gmail.com> <1168366823.2748.20.camel@gilboa-work-dev.localdomain> <13dbfe4f0701091106w1553b24fv28b7fcb5f5bb64ca@mail.gmail.com> <6c3f5e6c0701091449r4aeceda1pea72b93f70b6215c@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <1168405733.22173.22.camel@mccallum.corsepiu.local> On Tue, 2007-01-09 at 17:49 -0500, Andrew Parker wrote: > On 1/9/07, Chitlesh GOORAH wrote: > > On 1/9/07, Gilboa Davara wrote: > > > Asking them to download 100s of MB during the installation is a mistake. > > > > Then they will have to download the 100s of MB through downloads! > > In the end, it is the same thing. > > Downloading hundreds of different files is much slower than > downloading one file of the same size. Only if having a very reliable and fast connection. With low bandwidth or unreliable connections, the opposite applies. > Also, the initial spin is likely (?) to be downloaded via bittorrent, > which is not an option for yum when it needs individual packages. > > A single iso download can also feed multiple PCs (up to 5 in my case), > which is far more efficient than downloading the same hundreds of > files several times over. With a couple tricks applied (sharing yum caches over a network) yum can do the same. Ralf From lamont at gurulabs.com Wed Jan 10 05:57:19 2007 From: lamont at gurulabs.com (Lamont Peterson) Date: Tue, 9 Jan 2007 22:57:19 -0700 Subject: F7 KDE spin In-Reply-To: References: <45A2BABB.2090902@math.unl.edu> <200701082157.53135.lamont@gurulabs.com> Message-ID: <200701092257.25229.lamont@gurulabs.com> On Tuesday 09 January 2007 08:17am, Rex Dieter wrote: > Lamont Peterson wrote: > > One thing I've wanted to see for a long time is better packaging > > granularity of some apps in the core set of KDE packages. > > Which equates to much more work on the packagers' part (usually). Are you > willing to step up to help implement this? (: You're right, it does mean more work for packagers. I can certainly help with some of the packaging. Feel free to contact me off-list. Just to clarify, I'm not suggesting splitting every single KDE app into it's own package; some things should be broken up into smaller sub-packages and others shouldn't. -- Lamont Peterson Senior Instructor Guru Labs, L.C. [ http://www.GuruLabs.com/ ] NOTE: All messages from this email address should be digitally signed with my 0xDC0DD409 GPG key. It is available on the pgp.mit.edu keyserver as well as other keyservers that sync with MIT's. -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 189 bytes Desc: not available URL: From lamont at gurulabs.com Wed Jan 10 06:01:35 2007 From: lamont at gurulabs.com (Lamont Peterson) Date: Tue, 9 Jan 2007 23:01:35 -0700 Subject: F7 KDE spin In-Reply-To: References: <45A2BABB.2090902@math.unl.edu> <16de708d0701091156o681b9ca9va3f914c9d6e88da0@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <200701092301.35844.lamont@gurulabs.com> On Tuesday 09 January 2007 01:03pm, Kevin Kofler wrote: > Arthur Pemberton gmail.com> writes: > > As far as I remember those pull in a lot of gnome applications. It > > would be great if the KDE spin had the firefox patch to get it to use > > the KDE file browser. > > If that requires building a completely separate Firefox for the KDE spin, > it's probably not going to happen. > > Currently, not even openoffice.org-kde is being built and that could be > done as a separate subpackage (containing only the KDE integration bits, > and requiring the main package), unless this has regressed in OO.o 2. (It > used to be a separate package in OO.o 1.) It probably requires changes to > the main executables though, so it can't be built like some of the plugins > currently in Extras are (though I'd love to be proven wrong there ;-) ). SUSE is building the -kde sub-package for OpenOffice 2. It's in openSUSE 10.2 and installed by default (if you select KDE for the desktop). I think F7 should ship it, too. -- Lamont Peterson Senior Instructor Guru Labs, L.C. [ http://www.GuruLabs.com/ ] NOTE: All messages from this email address should be digitally signed with my 0xDC0DD409 GPG key. It is available on the pgp.mit.edu keyserver as well as other keyservers that sync with MIT's. -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 189 bytes Desc: not available URL: From sander at hoentjen.eu Wed Jan 10 09:31:39 2007 From: sander at hoentjen.eu (Sander Hoentjen) Date: Wed, 10 Jan 2007 10:31:39 +0100 Subject: firefox from devel and randr Message-ID: <1168421500.26738.13.camel@peecee.hoentjen.eu> Hi, I just tried to google for randr, but this causes a segmentation fault in firefox. Is this a local thing or do others see this too? I am running latest rawhide on x86_64 Sander From redhat at olen.net Wed Jan 10 10:08:25 2007 From: redhat at olen.net (Ola Thoresen) Date: Wed, 10 Jan 2007 11:08:25 +0100 Subject: firefox from devel and randr In-Reply-To: <1168421500.26738.13.camel@peecee.hoentjen.eu> References: <1168421500.26738.13.camel@peecee.hoentjen.eu> Message-ID: <45A4BB19.1030808@olen.net> Sander Hoentjen wrote: > Hi, > > I just tried to google for randr, but this causes a segmentation fault > in firefox. Is this a local thing or do others see this too? > I am running latest rawhide on x86_64 I have had multiple pages make Firefox-x86_64 in rawhide explode lately, but as it does not give any clue as to why it happens I have not posted any bugreports yet. A google search for "randr" does not make it happen here, but ironically, it happes quite often while browsing www.mozilla.org Right now it has crashed several times on http://www.mozilla.org/products/thunderbird/ Rgds. Ola Thoresen -- _,--', _._.--._____ .--.--';_'-.', ";_ _.,-' Ola Thoresen .'--'. _.' {`'-;_ .-.>.' '-:_ ) / `' '=. It is easier to fix Unix ) > {_/, /~) than to live with Windows |/ `^ .' From naoki at valuecommerce.com Wed Jan 10 10:31:54 2007 From: naoki at valuecommerce.com (Naoki) Date: Wed, 10 Jan 2007 19:31:54 +0900 Subject: Kernel-Xen.. Message-ID: <1168425114.29483.106.camel@dragon.valuecommerce.ne.jp> I'm wanting to do some more testing of bz #207432 (intel integrated chipsets explode in a hail of burning puppies when using Xen + graphics), but kernel-xen has gone away, is this because it's merged into 'kernel' or has it's packaging just broken temporarily? Sorry but I couldn't see any answer on the archives. -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From Axel.Thimm at ATrpms.net Wed Jan 10 10:51:27 2007 From: Axel.Thimm at ATrpms.net (Axel Thimm) Date: Wed, 10 Jan 2007 11:51:27 +0100 Subject: rawhide report: 20070108 changes In-Reply-To: <20070109180206.GB3417@redhat.com> References: <200701081113.l08BDBtT029997@hs20-bc2-6.build.redhat.com> <1168305395.3159.84.camel@vader.jdub.homelinux.org> <45A342B8.4020706@leemhuis.info> <200701090815.10970.jkeating@redhat.com> <20070109173914.GB10474@redhat.com> <45A3D700.4060606@leemhuis.info> <20070109180206.GB3417@redhat.com> Message-ID: <20070110105127.GB8195@neu.nirvana> On Tue, Jan 09, 2007 at 01:02:06PM -0500, Dave Jones wrote: > > There are guidelines for packaging. They contain a standard for naming > > pre-release packages. The kernel package clearly is violating it as the > > version of the kernel is in fact 2.6.20-rc4, but the %version is 2.6.19. > > Can we agree so far? FWIW I'm also on the same line as Thorsten on using upstream versioning, e.g. having 2.6.20rcN carry a %version of 2.6.20. > I don't consider rc's as released versions. The package version number > should state the latest released version that package is based on. > If we were to go down this route, we'd have to contend with the > other upstream naming conventions too. > look at the combinations we have :- 2.6.19, 2.6.19-git1, 2.6.19-rc1, 2.6.19.1, > 2.6.19-rc1-git1, 2.6.19.1-rc1 That's true of miriads of other software projects, too, and that's why there are mechanisms in the guidelines for properly dealing with that. > If rpmvercmp gets all of those transitions correct, I'll be surprised. See the packaging guidelines. > We've got much bigger fish to fry, and this afaics can only introduce problems. Deviating from upstream's uname is creating huge problems, finxing that will make many external kernel projects work out of the box with Fedora's kernel. The current situation is a follows: o Upstream goes to 2.6.20rc1 introducing most or all API/ABI changes towards 2.6.19 o all external kernel projects start probing the kernel sources for 2.6.20 o Fedora goes 2.6.20rcN, but changes upstream version to 2.6.19 o all external kernel projects boom o reports to external kernel projects lead to blaming Fedora In order to not patch each and every kmdl out there I'm changing the version in the kernel sources back to 2.6.20. Fixed 5 (!) kmdls that way with "one" character edit (it's more complicated than that, but that's the simplified version). So for the kernel, please do consider adjusting versioning to standard Fedora practices. Pretty, pretty please!!! -- Axel.Thimm at ATrpms.net -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 189 bytes Desc: not available URL: From Axel.Thimm at ATrpms.net Wed Jan 10 10:54:53 2007 From: Axel.Thimm at ATrpms.net (Axel Thimm) Date: Wed, 10 Jan 2007 11:54:53 +0100 Subject: Fedora 7 and enabling updates repositories at install time In-Reply-To: <200701091254.04083.jkeating@redhat.com> References: <20070109161721.GA28584@jadzia.bu.edu> <200701091206.52915.jkeating@redhat.com> <200701091254.04083.jkeating@redhat.com> Message-ID: <20070110105453.GC8195@neu.nirvana> On Tue, Jan 09, 2007 at 12:54:03PM -0500, Jesse Keating wrote: > On Tuesday 09 January 2007 12:47, Jima wrote: > > ? No, I'm talking about adding a repository with updates. ?I actually > > haven't enabled Extras at install time yet. ?(Is the comps file even in > > the right place to work? ?ISTR hearing it wasn't.) ?Give me a little > > credit. > > Well I've had the opposite experience. If I enable Core Updates at install > time, the install fails to complete due to the addon repo packages being > installed after the main set. Is this something to fix in anaconda or in the updates repo? Having installs properly use the updated packages would be a *great* feature. -- Axel.Thimm at ATrpms.net -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 189 bytes Desc: not available URL: From buildsys at redhat.com Wed Jan 10 11:00:08 2007 From: buildsys at redhat.com (buildsys at redhat.com) Date: Wed, 10 Jan 2007 06:00:08 -0500 Subject: rawhide report: 20070110 changes Message-ID: <200701101100.l0AB08Yl011093@hs20-bc2-6.build.redhat.com> Updated Packages: amtu-1.0.4-4.fc7 ---------------- * Tue Jan 09 2007 Steve Grubb 1.0.4-4 - patch fixing network and disk tests anaconda-11.2.0.8-1 ------------------- * Tue Jan 09 2007 Jeremy Katz - 11.2.0.8-1 - Add pata* drivers - Fix segfault with ks= (clumens, #221904) - Fix starting sector for sparc (pjones) - Only ask about vnc if Xvnc is present (dcantrell) - Put a debug button on custom dialogs with flags.debug (pjones) - python2.5 fixes - Fix ftp/http being specified as the url (dcantrell, #220728) - Use a default dhcpclass (dcantrell, #220082) - Add --gaugefor checkisomd5 (Ryan Finnie, #220286) - Don't overly clear the root window text (clumens, #220905) - Handle crazy large disk sizes (clumens, #219414) - Try to fix USB sleeping bits - Translation fix (#221253) - Honor dhcpclass (#220057) autofs-1:5.0.1-0.rc3.5 ---------------------- * Wed Jan 10 2007 Ian Kent - 5.0.1-0.rc3.5 - remove fullstop from Summary tag. - change Buildroot to recommended form. - replace Prereq with Requires. cpuspeed-1:1.2.1-1.51.fc7 ------------------------- * Wed Jan 10 2007 Jarod Wilson - Minor fix for cpuspeed daemon stop function * Tue Jan 09 2007 Jarod Wilson - Turn on ia64 builds (#216702) - Fix status on xen kernels * Tue Jan 09 2007 Jarod Wilson - Move config file to /etc/sysconfig/cpuspeed, more appropriate for initscript configs (#152305) - Manify 'cpuspeed --help' along with other details (#172655) - Tweak cpuspeed default thresholds (#147565) dejavu-lgc-fonts-2.13-1 ----------------------- * Tue Jan 09 2007 Behdad Esfahbod - 2.13-1 - Update to 2.13 - Use .bz2 tarball evolution-data-server-1.9.5-2.fc7 --------------------------------- * Tue Jan 09 2007 Matthew Barnes - 1.9.5-2.fc7 - Require libsoup-devel in devel subpackage (RH bug #152482). evolution-webcal-2.9.5-1.fc7 ---------------------------- * Tue Jan 09 2007 Matthew Barnes - 2.9.5-1.fc7 - Update to 2.9.5 - Update version requirements to match configure.ac. fetchmail-6.3.6-1.fc7 --------------------- * Sat Jan 06 2007 Miloslav Trmac - 6.3.6-1 - Update to fetchmail-6.3.6 (CVE-2006-5867, CVE-2006-5974) file-4.19-1.fc7 --------------- * Tue Jan 09 2007 Martin Bacovsky - 4.19-1.fc7 - Resolves: #208880 - Pointless file(1) error message while detecting ELF 64-bit file thanks to for patch - Resolves: #214992 - file-devel should own /usr/include/* /usr/lib/lib*.so - Resolves: #203548 - a -devel package should be split out for libmagic - upgrade to new upstream 4.19 - patch revision and cleaning - split package to file, file-devel and file-libs * Wed Aug 23 2006 Martin Bacovsky - 4.17-8 - fix recognition of perl script with embed awk (#203610) * Fri Aug 18 2006 Martin Bacovsky - 4.17-7 - fix recognition of bash script with embed awk (#202185) foomatic-3.0.2-44.fc7 --------------------- * Tue Jan 09 2007 Tim Waugh 3.0.2-44 - Removed m2300w files (bug #203381). freetype-2.2.1-16.fc7 --------------------- * Tue Jan 09 2007 Behdad Esfahbod 2.2.1-16 - Backport binary-search fixes from HEAD - Add freetype-2.2.1-ttcmap.patch - Resolves: #208734 - Fix rendering issue with some Asian fonts. - Add freetype-2.2.1-fix-get-orientation.patch - Resolves: #207261 - Copy non-X demos even if not compiling with_xfree86. - Add freetype-2.2.1-zero-item-size.patch, to fix crasher. - Resolves #214048 - Add X11_PATH=/usr to "make"s, to find modern X. - Resolves #212199 * Mon Sep 11 2006 Behdad Esfahbod 2.2.1-10 - Fix crasher https://bugs.freedesktop.org/show_bug.cgi?id=6841 - Add freetype-2.2.1-memcpy-fix.patch * Thu Sep 07 2006 Behdad Esfahbod 2.2.1-9 - Add BuildRequires: libX11-devel (#205355) gdb-6.5-23.fc7 -------------- * Tue Jan 09 2007 Jan Kratochvil - 6.5-23 - Find symbols properly at their original (included) file (BZ 109921). - Remove the stuck mock(1) builds disfunctional workaround (-> mock BZ 221351). gimp-print-4.2.7-23.fc7 ----------------------- * Tue Dec 12 2006 Tim Waugh 4.2.7-23 - Fixed build (mkinstalldirs problem). - Set POSIX locale when parsing lpstat output (bug #219017). gtk2-2.10.7-2.fc7 ----------------- * Tue Jan 09 2007 Behdad Esfahbod - 2.10.7-2 - Configure with --with-included-loaders=png. Saves a page per process * Thu Dec 21 2006 Matthias Clasen - 2.10.7-1 - Make gdk_pixbuf_loader_close() idempotent - Always emit the closed signal when the loader is closed * Thu Dec 21 2006 Matthias Clasen - 2.10.6-8 - Make update scripts handle slight variations in $host htdig-3:3.2.0b6-9.fc7 --------------------- * Tue Jan 09 2007 Adam Tkac 3:3.2.0b6-9.fc7 - added +i option to rundig script. This option enables incremental digging icu-3.6-14 ---------- * Tue Jan 09 2007 Caolan McNamara - 3.6-14 - Related: rhbz#216089 add icu.icuXXXX.safety.patch iptables-1.3.7-1 ---------------- * Tue Jan 09 2007 Thomas Woerner 1.3.7-1 - new verison 1.3.7 - iptc is not a public interface and therefore not installed anymore - dropped upstream secmark patch * Tue Sep 19 2006 Thomas Woerner 1.3.5-2 - added secmark iptables patches (#201573) kbd-1.12-21 ----------- * Tue Jan 09 2007 Miloslav Trmac - 1.12-21 - Add a "ko" (Korean) keyboard layout, equivalent to the "us" layout Resolves: #220151 krb5-1.5-15 ----------- * Tue Jan 09 2007 Nalin Dahyabhai - 1.5-15 - apply fixes from Tom Yu for MITKRB5-SA-2006-002 (CVE-2006-6143) (#218456) - apply fixes from Tom Yu for MITKRB5-SA-2006-003 (CVE-2006-6144) (#218456) * Mon Oct 23 2006 Nalin Dahyabhai - 1.5-11 - don't bail from the KDC init script if there's no database, it may be in a different location than the default (fenlason) - remove the [kdc] section from the default krb5.conf -- doesn't seem to have been applicable for a while * Wed Oct 18 2006 Nalin Dahyabhai - 1.5-10 - rename krb5.sh and krb5.csh so that they don't overlap (#210623) - way-late application of added error info in kadmind.init (#65853) libdhcp-1.17-3.fc7 ------------------ * Tue Jan 09 2007 David Cantrell - 1.17-3 - Set IFF_UP and IFF_RUNNING flags on interface before trying to get a DHCP lease. Fixes a problem with DHCP failing in anaconda using 2.6.19 and higher kernels (#221392). libselinux-1.33.3-3.fc7 ----------------------- * Fri Jan 05 2007 Dan Walsh - 1.33.3-3 - Cleanup patch libsemanage-1.9.2-1.fc7 ----------------------- * Fri Dec 22 2006 Dan Walsh - 1.9.2-1 - Upgrade to latest from NSA * Merged patch to optionally reduce disk usage by removing the backup module store and linked policy from Karl MacMillan * Merged patch to correctly propagate return values in libsemanage logrotate-3.7.4-9.fc7 --------------------- * Tue Jan 09 2007 Peter Vrabec 3.7.4-9 - allow multibyte characters in readPath() (#122145) man-1.6e-2.fc7 -------------- * Tue Jan 09 2007 Ivana Varekova - 1.6e-2 - Resolves: 221868 man use incorrect groff option - spec file cleanup * Mon Dec 11 2006 Ivana Varekova - 1.6e-1 - update to 1.6e * Thu Oct 26 2006 Ivana Varekova - 1.6d-3 - add MAKEWHATISDBUPDATES option (bug 210501) nmap-2:4.20-1 ------------- * Tue Jan 09 2007 Florian La Roche - version 4.20 pango-1.15.3-2.fc7 ------------------ * Tue Jan 09 2007 Behdad Esfahbod - 1.15.3-2 - Update sources * Tue Jan 09 2007 Behdad Esfahbod - 1.15.3-1 - Update to 1.15.3 - Pass --with-included-modules=basic-fc. Saves one page of memory per process. policycoreutils-1.33.10-1.fc7 ----------------------------- * Tue Jan 09 2007 Dan Walsh 1.33.10-1 - Update to upstream * Merged patch to correctly handle a failure during semanage handle creation from Karl MacMillan. * Merged patch to fix seobject role modification from Dan Walsh. rhpl-0.198-1 ------------ * Tue Jan 09 2007 David Cantrell - 0.198-1 - Conflicts with kbd < 1.12-21 * Tue Jan 09 2007 Paul Nasrat - 0.197-1 - Fix Korean keyboard (#212280) vte-0.15.1-1.fc7 ---------------- * Tue Jan 09 2007 Behdad Esfahbod 0.15.1-1 - Update to 0.15.1 xorg-x11-server-1.1.1-57.fc7 ---------------------------- * Tue Jan 09 2007 Adam Jackson 1.1.1-57 - xorg-xserver-1.1.0-dbe-render.diff: CVE #2006-6101 - xorg-x11-server-1.1.0-redhat-xephyr-only-hack.patch: Skip building the non-Xephyr kdrive servers entirely. Broken deps for s390 ---------------------------------------------------------- systemtap - 0.5.10-1.fc7.s390 requires kernel >= 0:2.6.9-11 systemtap-runtime - 0.5.10-1.fc7.s390 requires kernel >= 0:2.6.9-11 From gilboad at gmail.com Wed Jan 10 11:11:46 2007 From: gilboad at gmail.com (Gilboa Davara) Date: Wed, 10 Jan 2007 13:11:46 +0200 Subject: F7 KDE spin In-Reply-To: References: <45A2BABB.2090902@math.unl.edu> <16de708d0701081825l33023bd4p818ad14919feae0b@mail.gmail.com> <200701082158.03833.lamont@gurulabs.com> <45A35AF2.2030500@yahoo.co.uk> <16de708d0701091155h26fa2d6ci763e3cf700f694db@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <1168427506.16494.11.camel@gilboa-work-dev.localdomain> On Tue, 2007-01-09 at 20:08 +0000, Kevin Kofler wrote: > Arthur Pemberton gmail.com> writes: > > 3) If tutorials including the system-config tools are put up, only one > > set will be necessary, not one for Gtk+ and one for Gtk-Qt > > The differences between Clearlooks and Plastik are not so big that they warrant > a separate version of the tutorials. Heck, a lot of documentation uses > screenshots taken on Window$ XP, or on another distribution with a very > different theme than Fedora's, or with an excentric custom theme. Also, a lot > of the regular GTK+ styles look more different from Clearlooks than Plastik > does. > > Kevin Kofler > /+1. I'm running a large number of GNOME application on my KDE desktop and they integrate nicely. KDE: Skin: Plastik Icons: Umicons. GNOME: (Forced using .gtkrc) Skin: Clearlooks. Icons: Gant.Xfce - Gilboa From gilboad at gmail.com Wed Jan 10 11:19:53 2007 From: gilboad at gmail.com (Gilboa Davara) Date: Wed, 10 Jan 2007 13:19:53 +0200 Subject: F7 KDE spin In-Reply-To: <200701092108.25370.dorin.lazar.liste@gmail.com> References: <45A2BABB.2090902@math.unl.edu> <13dbfe4f0701090923r42ae5aadw5cc65d3a7a90b49b@mail.gmail.com> <1168366823.2748.20.camel@gilboa-work-dev.localdomain> <200701092108.25370.dorin.lazar.liste@gmail.com> Message-ID: <1168427993.16494.19.camel@gilboa-work-dev.localdomain> On Tue, 2007-01-09 at 21:08 +0200, Dorin Lazar wrote: > Since that is what the default is, that is what they use. I object to you line of thinking. (Start by the "they") People who use Linux are usually people that could use another OS that came with their machine by default (Windows) and choose otherwise. More-ever, the people that will -choose- the Fedora-KDE spin, already decided to ignore the default (Desktop spin) - so why are you assuming that "they" are a mindless herd that will use the default - no matter what the default is. > I'm on Fedora, I never used GNOME because I didn't like it (but I tried it everytime). And I > am quite happy with what KDE has to offer. Make kontact the default, and > you'll have a plethora of kontact users. No objections here. Heck, don't even install it by default. I just want the Evo dep-chain on the ISO - nothing else. - Gilboa From fedora at leemhuis.info Wed Jan 10 11:44:11 2007 From: fedora at leemhuis.info (Thorsten Leemhuis) Date: Wed, 10 Jan 2007 12:44:11 +0100 Subject: rawhide report: 20070108 changes In-Reply-To: <20070110105127.GB8195@neu.nirvana> References: <200701081113.l08BDBtT029997@hs20-bc2-6.build.redhat.com> <1168305395.3159.84.camel@vader.jdub.homelinux.org> <45A342B8.4020706@leemhuis.info> <200701090815.10970.jkeating@redhat.com> <20070109173914.GB10474@redhat.com> <45A3D700.4060606@leemhuis.info> <20070109180206.GB3417@redhat.com> <20070110105127.GB8195@neu.nirvana> Message-ID: <45A4D18B.4010607@leemhuis.info> On 10.01.2007 11:51, Axel Thimm wrote: > > So for the kernel, please do consider adjusting versioning to standard > Fedora practices. Pretty, pretty please!!! BTW, I put the issue onto the FESCo schedule for tomorrows meeting (18:00 UTC, #fedora-extras on freenode); we'll discuss the issue there. CU thl From jwboyer at jdub.homelinux.org Wed Jan 10 11:44:29 2007 From: jwboyer at jdub.homelinux.org (Josh Boyer) Date: Wed, 10 Jan 2007 05:44:29 -0600 Subject: Kernel-Xen.. In-Reply-To: <1168425114.29483.106.camel@dragon.valuecommerce.ne.jp> References: <1168425114.29483.106.camel@dragon.valuecommerce.ne.jp> Message-ID: <1168429469.3159.101.camel@vader.jdub.homelinux.org> On Wed, 2007-01-10 at 19:31 +0900, Naoki wrote: > I'm wanting to do some more testing of bz #207432 (intel integrated > chipsets explode in a hail of burning puppies when using Xen + > graphics), but kernel-xen has gone away, is this because it's merged > into 'kernel' or has it's packaging just broken temporarily? It's broken. josh From rc040203 at freenet.de Wed Jan 10 12:12:30 2007 From: rc040203 at freenet.de (Ralf Corsepius) Date: Wed, 10 Jan 2007 13:12:30 +0100 Subject: Mock/yum race Message-ID: <1168431150.22173.54.camel@mccallum.corsepiu.local> Hi, I am facing a bizarre and pretty severe problem with mock: On a remote (FC5) machine, mock-yum started to consume 100% of cpu-time, seemingly during a chroot'ed run of yum[1]. Peculiarly disturbing about this: This is job is running as "root", with me not having root privileges on the affected machine. # ps aux | grep mock root 28303 98.0 1.0 20280 10756 ? R 02:32 208:15 /usr/bin/python /usr/libexec/mock-yum --installroot /var/lib/mock/fedora-5-i386-local/root resolvedep m4 emacs gawk perl I am inclined to blame this to be a side-effect of one of these infamous yum/rpm/kernel deadlocks/races and/or yum/rpm arkward handling of interrupts [1][2]. Ralf [1] yum's behavior on "^C" and rpm being problematic wrt. rpmdb locking. [2] This had been a lengthy remote over-night build job, with me initially having been ssh'ed to the remote machine and the connection having gone down some time during the run. From kmaraas at broadpark.no Wed Jan 10 12:23:18 2007 From: kmaraas at broadpark.no (Kjartan Maraas) Date: Wed, 10 Jan 2007 13:23:18 +0100 Subject: F7 KDE spin In-Reply-To: <16de708d0701091156o681b9ca9va3f914c9d6e88da0@mail.gmail.com> References: <45A2BABB.2090902@math.unl.edu> <1168337210.26164.7.camel@gilboa-work-dev.localdomain> <20070109111229.GB2581@free.fr> <16de708d0701091156o681b9ca9va3f914c9d6e88da0@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <1168431798.13984.4.camel@rivendell> tir, 09.01.2007 kl. 13.56 -0600, skrev Arthur Pemberton: > On 1/9/07, Patrice Dumas wrote: > > On Tue, Jan 09, 2007 at 11:06:46AM +0000, Kevin Kofler wrote: > > > Gilboa Davara gmail.com> writes: > > > > * non-kde pkgs: firefox, openoffice.org > > > > Add evolution. (Required if you need good exchange integration) > > > > > > Then we end up with 90% of GNOME in the KDE spin... > > > > firefox and openoffice.org are not gnome apps. The corresponding gnome > > apps are epiphany and abiword for ooffice (to my knowledge). > > > As far as I remember those pull in a lot of gnome applications. It > would be great if the KDE spin had the firefox patch to get it to use > the KDE file browser. > Here's the list of glib/gtk/gnome things that are listed when running rpm -q --requires firefox: libORBit-2.so.0 libart_lgpl_2.so.2 libatk-1.0.so.0 libbonobo-2.so.0 libbonobo-activation.so.4 libbonoboui-2.so.0 libglib-2.0.so.0 libgmodule-2.0.so.0 libgnome-2.so.0 libgnome-keyring.so.0 libgnomecanvas-2.so.0 libgnomeui-2.so.0 libgnomevfs-2.so.0 libgobject-2.0.so.0 libgthread-2.0.so.0 libgtk-x11-2.0.so.0 libpango-1.0.so.0 libpangocairo-1.0.so.0 libpangoft2-1.0.so.0 libpangoxft-1.0.so.0 evolution drags in quite a few other libraries though. Cheers Kjartan From gilboad at gmail.com Wed Jan 10 12:41:25 2007 From: gilboad at gmail.com (Gilboa Davara) Date: Wed, 10 Jan 2007 14:41:25 +0200 Subject: F7 KDE spin In-Reply-To: <13dbfe4f0701091106w1553b24fv28b7fcb5f5bb64ca@mail.gmail.com> References: <45A2BABB.2090902@math.unl.edu> <1168337210.26164.7.camel@gilboa-work-dev.localdomain> <1168349230.26164.19.camel@gilboa-work-dev.localdomain> <13dbfe4f0701090923r42ae5aadw5cc65d3a7a90b49b@mail.gmail.com> <1168366823.2748.20.camel@gilboa-work-dev.localdomain> <13dbfe4f0701091106w1553b24fv28b7fcb5f5bb64ca@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <1168432885.16494.31.camel@gilboa-work-dev.localdomain> On Tue, 2007-01-09 at 20:06 +0100, Chitlesh GOORAH wrote: > On 1/9/07, Gilboa Davara wrote: > > Asking them to download 100s of MB during the installation is a mistake. > > Then they will have to download the 100s of MB through downloads! > In the end, it is the same thing. -Far- from being the same thing. A. Some people get/buy the FC ISO and never use it on-line. Heck, I've worked in places that (for security reasons) never Internet connection. What-you-have-on-the-ISO-is-what-you-get. B. A single ISO can be duplicated over and over again. I can't share a yum-cache with my friend. C. Single-file FTP/HTTP/BT downloads are faster and more reliable then yum. BT handles notoriously bad TCP connections much better then FTP/HTTP (...and as a result, yum) > I prefer to see some development tools or even engineering/scientific > kde tools instead. A. I'm not sure this is mutually exclusive. B. Even if it is, I'd venture and guess the given this ML usage statistics, more people use Evolution over KDE then each of these engineering/scientific tools. C. ... And even if I'm wrong: 1. These tools tend to be (much) smaller - much better suited for yum download - even on modem link. 2. I'd guess that if you require these tools, you ether use them @work (where you have broadband link) or at home (where you have a broadband link). - Gilboa From giallu at gmail.com Wed Jan 10 11:53:24 2007 From: giallu at gmail.com (Gianluca Sforna) Date: Wed, 10 Jan 2007 12:53:24 +0100 Subject: rawhide report: 20070110 changes In-Reply-To: <200701101100.l0AB08Yl011093@hs20-bc2-6.build.redhat.com> References: <200701101100.l0AB08Yl011093@hs20-bc2-6.build.redhat.com> Message-ID: On 1/10/07, buildsys at redhat.com wrote: > freetype-2.2.1-16.fc7 > --------------------- > * Tue Jan 09 2007 Behdad Esfahbod 2.2.1-16 > - Backport binary-search fixes from HEAD > - Add freetype-2.2.1-ttcmap.patch > - Resolves: #208734 > > - Fix rendering issue with some Asian fonts. > - Add freetype-2.2.1-fix-get-orientation.patch > - Resolves: #207261 > > - Copy non-X demos even if not compiling with_xfree86. > > - Add freetype-2.2.1-zero-item-size.patch, to fix crasher. > - Resolves #214048 > > - Add X11_PATH=/usr to "make"s, to find modern X. > - Resolves #212199 > > * Mon Sep 11 2006 Behdad Esfahbod 2.2.1-10 > - Fix crasher https://bugs.freedesktop.org/show_bug.cgi?id=6841 > - Add freetype-2.2.1-memcpy-fix.patch > > * Thu Sep 07 2006 Behdad Esfahbod 2.2.1-9 > - Add BuildRequires: libX11-devel (#205355) > Is the patented hinting algorithm still disabled in freetype? If so, was an audit performed after OIN creation to determine if it's now possible to enable it? From gilboad at gmail.com Wed Jan 10 13:17:52 2007 From: gilboad at gmail.com (Gilboa Davara) Date: Wed, 10 Jan 2007 15:17:52 +0200 Subject: F7 KDE spin In-Reply-To: <16de708d0701091158w154ad747wa86d9da39aa924e3@mail.gmail.com> References: <45A2BABB.2090902@math.unl.edu> <1168337210.26164.7.camel@gilboa-work-dev.localdomain> <1168360736.2748.6.camel@gilboa-work-dev.localdomain> <16de708d0701091158w154ad747wa86d9da39aa924e3@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <1168435072.16494.41.camel@gilboa-work-dev.localdomain> On Tue, 2007-01-09 at 13:58 -0600, Arthur Pemberton wrote: > On 1/9/07, Gilboa Davara wrote: > > On Tue, 2007-01-09 at 09:18 -0600, Rex Dieter wrote: > > > Gilboa Davara wrote: > > [snip] > > > > * non-kde pkgs: firefox, openoffice.org > > > > Add evolution. (Required if you need good exchange integration) > > > > > > /me shudders, but I think I have to agree. > > > > > > > No fear! > > So what if you have to include half of GNOME, mono, and 250 other > > packages just to get it working... :) > > But what would that do to the install media size? > I'm guessing here., but the rpm --requires list seems to suggest that at least half of the dependencies are already added by firefox. Notable exceptions are gnome-print and gnome-pilot. (Which are not that big) * - Gilboa From jkeating at redhat.com Wed Jan 10 13:18:16 2007 From: jkeating at redhat.com (Jesse Keating) Date: Wed, 10 Jan 2007 08:18:16 -0500 Subject: Fedora 7 and enabling updates repositories at install time In-Reply-To: <20070110105453.GC8195@neu.nirvana> References: <20070109161721.GA28584@jadzia.bu.edu> <200701091254.04083.jkeating@redhat.com> <20070110105453.GC8195@neu.nirvana> Message-ID: <200701100818.19800.jkeating@redhat.com> On Wednesday 10 January 2007 05:54, Axel Thimm wrote: > Is this something to fix in anaconda or in the updates repo? Having > installs properly use the updated packages would be a *great* feature. Its actually something that needs to be fixed in RPM I think. Its only broken for media installs or NFS ISO because of the way that rpm prepares a transaction and needs the headers for this, and we don't have access to the headers from the other CDs, so ordering gets really bad. If you're doing http/ftp/nfs(non-iso) installs, you should be safe to enable updates at install time. -- Jesse Keating Release Engineer: Fedora -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 189 bytes Desc: not available URL: From dmalcolm at redhat.com Wed Jan 10 13:47:57 2007 From: dmalcolm at redhat.com (David Malcolm) Date: Wed, 10 Jan 2007 08:47:57 -0500 Subject: F7 KDE spin In-Reply-To: <1168435072.16494.41.camel@gilboa-work-dev.localdomain> References: <45A2BABB.2090902@math.unl.edu> <1168337210.26164.7.camel@gilboa-work-dev.localdomain> <1168360736.2748.6.camel@gilboa-work-dev.localdomain> <16de708d0701091158w154ad747wa86d9da39aa924e3@mail.gmail.com> <1168435072.16494.41.camel@gilboa-work-dev.localdomain> Message-ID: <1168436877.2858.2.camel@localhost.localdomain> On Wed, 2007-01-10 at 15:17 +0200, Gilboa Davara wrote: > On Tue, 2007-01-09 at 13:58 -0600, Arthur Pemberton wrote: > > On 1/9/07, Gilboa Davara wrote: > > > On Tue, 2007-01-09 at 09:18 -0600, Rex Dieter wrote: > > > > Gilboa Davara wrote: > > > [snip] > > > > > * non-kde pkgs: firefox, openoffice.org > > > > > Add evolution. (Required if you need good exchange integration) > > > > > > > > /me shudders, but I think I have to agree. > > > > > > > > > > No fear! > > > So what if you have to include half of GNOME, mono, and 250 other > > > packages just to get it working... :) > > > > But what would that do to the install media size? > > > > I'm guessing here., but the rpm --requires list seems to suggest that at > least half of the dependencies are already added by firefox. > Notable exceptions are gnome-print and gnome-pilot. (Which are not that > big) * evolution's gnome-pilot dependency could be made optional; I just filed bug 222109 about this. From rdieter at math.unl.edu Wed Jan 10 14:29:57 2007 From: rdieter at math.unl.edu (Rex Dieter) Date: Wed, 10 Jan 2007 08:29:57 -0600 Subject: F7 KDE spin, package splitting References: <45A2BABB.2090902@math.unl.edu> <200701082157.53135.lamont@gurulabs.com> <200701092257.25229.lamont@gurulabs.com> Message-ID: Lamont Peterson wrote: > Just to clarify, I'm not suggesting splitting every single KDE app into > it's own package; some things should be broken up into smaller > sub-packages and others shouldn't. OK, I agree, in theory. Now, any concrete suggestions (with justifications)? (: -- Rex From tmus at tmus.dk Wed Jan 10 14:43:44 2007 From: tmus at tmus.dk (Thomas M Steenholdt) Date: Wed, 10 Jan 2007 15:43:44 +0100 Subject: rawhide report: 20070108 changes In-Reply-To: <1168354855.3578.6.camel@lt21223.campus.dmacc.edu> References: <200701081113.l08BDBtT029997@hs20-bc2-6.build.redhat.com> <200701081155.25294.lamont@gurulabs.com> <1168305395.3159.84.camel@vader.jdub.homelinux.org> <45A342B8.4020706@leemhuis.info> <1168343233.3159.90.camel@vader.jdub.homelinux.org> <45A38492.2080904@leemhuis.info> <1168354855.3578.6.camel@lt21223.campus.dmacc.edu> Message-ID: Jeffrey C. Ollie wrote: > > If you look a the kernel .spec you will see that there is > "linux-2.6.19.tar.bz2" plus "patch-2.6.20-rc4.bz2". So the RPM version > is reflecting the fact that it's the 2.6.19 plus patches. > Well, the patch effectively updates the kernel source-code (before building it) to 2.6.20-rc4. So this is indeed a 2.6.20-rc4 version, which, as I understand it, dave also fully recognizes. /Thomas From tmus at tmus.dk Wed Jan 10 14:52:39 2007 From: tmus at tmus.dk (Thomas M Steenholdt) Date: Wed, 10 Jan 2007 15:52:39 +0100 Subject: rawhide report: 20070108 changes In-Reply-To: References: <200701081113.l08BDBtT029997@hs20-bc2-6.build.redhat.com> <200701081155.25294.lamont@gurulabs.com> <1168305395.3159.84.camel@vader.jdub.homelinux.org> <45A342B8.4020706@leemhuis.info> <1168343233.3159.90.camel@vader.jdub.homelinux.org> <45A38492.2080904@leemhuis.info> <1168354855.3578.6.camel@lt21223.campus.dmacc.edu> Message-ID: Thomas M Steenholdt wrote: > Jeffrey C. Ollie wrote: >> >> If you look a the kernel .spec you will see that there is >> "linux-2.6.19.tar.bz2" plus "patch-2.6.20-rc4.bz2". So the RPM version >> is reflecting the fact that it's the 2.6.19 plus patches. >> > > Well, the patch effectively updates the kernel source-code (before > building it) to 2.6.20-rc4. > > So this is indeed a 2.6.20-rc4 version, which, as I understand it, dave > also fully recognizes. > > /Thomas > FWIW, I really have no hard standpoint on whether the kernel rpm should be named after the released base version or the version of the next kernel, when it includes preX or rcX patches from a newer version (which it will most of the time). I can definitely see pros and cons of each approach. It seems a little more sane to use 2.6.19 for %version, when it's not really a 2.6.20 yet. On the other hand, the upstream version really is 2.6.20rc4, only %version cannot have rc4 IIRC... so... Take your pick. Just my 2 cents. /Thomas From kloczek at zie.pg.gda.pl Wed Jan 10 14:53:13 2007 From: kloczek at zie.pg.gda.pl (Tomasz =?UTF-8?Q?K=C5=82oczko?=) Date: Wed, 10 Jan 2007 15:53:13 +0100 Subject: rawhide report: 20070110 changes In-Reply-To: <200701101100.l0AB08Yl011093@hs20-bc2-6.build.redhat.com> References: <200701101100.l0AB08Yl011093@hs20-bc2-6.build.redhat.com> Message-ID: <1168440793.5205.7.camel@kloczek01.pracownicy.zie> Dnia 10-01-2007, ?ro o godzinie 06:00 -0500, buildsys at redhat.com napisa?(a): > file-4.19-1.fc7 > --------------- [..] > - split package to file, file-devel and file-libs Simple question: for what create file-libs ? I don't see in current FC packages set any package which require only libmagick. kloczek From jkeating at redhat.com Wed Jan 10 15:09:58 2007 From: jkeating at redhat.com (Jesse Keating) Date: Wed, 10 Jan 2007 10:09:58 -0500 Subject: rawhide report: 20070110 changes In-Reply-To: <1168440793.5205.7.camel@kloczek01.pracownicy.zie> References: <200701101100.l0AB08Yl011093@hs20-bc2-6.build.redhat.com> <1168440793.5205.7.camel@kloczek01.pracownicy.zie> Message-ID: <200701101010.01742.jkeating@redhat.com> On Wednesday 10 January 2007 09:53, Tomasz K?oczko wrote: > Simple question: for what create file-libs ? > I don't see in current FC packages set any package which require only > libmagick. There are some Extras packages that use it. -- Jesse Keating Release Engineer: Fedora -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 189 bytes Desc: not available URL: From kloczek at zie.pg.gda.pl Wed Jan 10 15:25:41 2007 From: kloczek at zie.pg.gda.pl (Tomasz =?UTF-8?Q?K=C5=82oczko?=) Date: Wed, 10 Jan 2007 16:25:41 +0100 Subject: rawhide report: 20070110 changes In-Reply-To: <200701101010.01742.jkeating@redhat.com> References: <200701101100.l0AB08Yl011093@hs20-bc2-6.build.redhat.com> <1168440793.5205.7.camel@kloczek01.pracownicy.zie> <200701101010.01742.jkeating@redhat.com> Message-ID: <1168442741.5205.13.camel@kloczek01.pracownicy.zie> Dnia 10-01-2007, ?ro o godzinie 10:09 -0500, Jesse Keating napisa?(a): > On Wednesday 10 January 2007 09:53, Tomasz K?oczko wrote: > > Simple question: for what create file-libs ? > > I don't see in current FC packages set any package which require only > > libmagick. > > There are some Extras packages that use it. OK byt last changes still are buggy because libmagick uses magick database which is in man package so have installed only file-libs will be unuseable. kloczek From kloczek at zie.pg.gda.pl Wed Jan 10 15:32:18 2007 From: kloczek at zie.pg.gda.pl (Tomasz =?UTF-8?Q?K=C5=82oczko?=) Date: Wed, 10 Jan 2007 16:32:18 +0100 Subject: rawhide report: 20070110 changes In-Reply-To: <1168442741.5205.13.camel@kloczek01.pracownicy.zie> References: <200701101100.l0AB08Yl011093@hs20-bc2-6.build.redhat.com> <1168440793.5205.7.camel@kloczek01.pracownicy.zie> <200701101010.01742.jkeating@redhat.com> <1168442741.5205.13.camel@kloczek01.pracownicy.zie> Message-ID: <1168443138.5205.20.camel@kloczek01.pracownicy.zie> Dnia 10-01-2007, ?ro o godzinie 16:25 +0100, Tomasz K?oczko napisa?(a): > Dnia 10-01-2007, ?ro o godzinie 10:09 -0500, Jesse Keating napisa?(a): > > On Wednesday 10 January 2007 09:53, Tomasz K?oczko wrote: > > > Simple question: for what create file-libs ? > > > I don't see in current FC packages set any package which require only > > > libmagick. > > > > There are some Extras packages that use it. > > OK byt last changes still are buggy because libmagick uses magick > database which is in man package so have installed only file-libs will > be unuseable. .. and have main package with only /usr/bin/file executable and man pages (~24KB) probably isn't so good idea. So IMO separate libmagic in subpackage cen be reverted. BTW: it will be good pass --without-static to configure for not include static libmagic. kloczek From kloczek at zie.pg.gda.pl Wed Jan 10 15:35:40 2007 From: kloczek at zie.pg.gda.pl (Tomasz =?UTF-8?Q?K=C5=82oczko?=) Date: Wed, 10 Jan 2007 16:35:40 +0100 Subject: rawhide report: 20070110 changes In-Reply-To: <1168443138.5205.20.camel@kloczek01.pracownicy.zie> References: <200701101100.l0AB08Yl011093@hs20-bc2-6.build.redhat.com> <1168440793.5205.7.camel@kloczek01.pracownicy.zie> <200701101010.01742.jkeating@redhat.com> <1168442741.5205.13.camel@kloczek01.pracownicy.zie> <1168443138.5205.20.camel@kloczek01.pracownicy.zie> Message-ID: <1168443340.5205.23.camel@kloczek01.pracownicy.zie> Dnia 10-01-2007, ?ro o godzinie 16:32 +0100, Tomasz K?oczko napisa?(a): > BTW: it will be good pass --without-static to configure for not > include static libmagic. Correction: --disable-static. kloczek From kloczek at zie.pg.gda.pl Wed Jan 10 15:38:21 2007 From: kloczek at zie.pg.gda.pl (Tomasz =?UTF-8?Q?K=C5=82oczko?=) Date: Wed, 10 Jan 2007 16:38:21 +0100 Subject: rawhide report: 20070110 changes In-Reply-To: <200701101100.l0AB08Yl011093@hs20-bc2-6.build.redhat.com> References: <200701101100.l0AB08Yl011093@hs20-bc2-6.build.redhat.com> Message-ID: <1168443501.5205.26.camel@kloczek01.pracownicy.zie> Dnia 10-01-2007, ?ro o godzinie 06:00 -0500, buildsys at redhat.com napisa?(a): > gdb-6.5-23.fc7 2006-12-18 was released gdb 6.6. kloczek From kevin.kofler at chello.at Wed Jan 10 15:43:59 2007 From: kevin.kofler at chello.at (Kevin Kofler) Date: Wed, 10 Jan 2007 15:43:59 +0000 (UTC) Subject: F7 KDE spin References: <45A2BABB.2090902@math.unl.edu> <1168337210.26164.7.camel@gilboa-work-dev.localdomain> <1168360736.2748.6.camel@gilboa-work-dev.localdomain> <16de708d0701091158w154ad747wa86d9da39aa924e3@mail.gmail.com> <1168435072.16494.41.camel@gilboa-work-dev.localdomain> Message-ID: Gilboa Davara gmail.com> writes: > I'm guessing here., but the rpm --requires list seems to suggest that at > least half of the dependencies are already added by firefox. Then let's zap Firefox too, that's what Konqueror is for. Kevin Kofler From kloczek at zie.pg.gda.pl Wed Jan 10 15:43:49 2007 From: kloczek at zie.pg.gda.pl (Tomasz =?UTF-8?Q?K=C5=82oczko?=) Date: Wed, 10 Jan 2007 16:43:49 +0100 Subject: rawhide report: 20070110 changes In-Reply-To: <200701101100.l0AB08Yl011093@hs20-bc2-6.build.redhat.com> References: <200701101100.l0AB08Yl011093@hs20-bc2-6.build.redhat.com> Message-ID: <1168443829.5205.31.camel@kloczek01.pracownicy.zie> Dnia 10-01-2007, ?ro o godzinie 06:00 -0500, buildsys at redhat.com napisa?(a): > policycoreutils-1.33.10-1.fc7 > ----------------------------- > * Tue Jan 09 2007 Dan Walsh 1.33.10-1 > - Update to upstream > * Merged patch to correctly handle a failure during semanage > handle > creation from Karl MacMillan. > * Merged patch to fix seobject role modification from Dan > Walsh. I have question about policycoreutils: this package uses during build libsepol.a for use some symbols not included in public libsepol DSO ABI. Is it correct ? kloczek From katzj at redhat.com Wed Jan 10 15:44:24 2007 From: katzj at redhat.com (Jeremy Katz) Date: Wed, 10 Jan 2007 10:44:24 -0500 Subject: Fedora 7 and enabling updates repositories at install time In-Reply-To: <200701100818.19800.jkeating@redhat.com> References: <20070109161721.GA28584@jadzia.bu.edu> <200701091254.04083.jkeating@redhat.com> <20070110105453.GC8195@neu.nirvana> <200701100818.19800.jkeating@redhat.com> Message-ID: <1168443864.4632.32.camel@aglarond.local> On Wed, 2007-01-10 at 08:18 -0500, Jesse Keating wrote: > On Wednesday 10 January 2007 05:54, Axel Thimm wrote: > > Is this something to fix in anaconda or in the updates repo? Having > > installs properly use the updated packages would be a *great* feature. > > Its actually something that needs to be fixed in RPM I think. Its only broken > for media installs or NFS ISO because of the way that rpm prepares a > transaction and needs the headers for this, and we don't have access to the > headers from the other CDs, so ordering gets really bad. If you're doing > http/ftp/nfs(non-iso) installs, you should be safe to enable updates at > install time. That's not an entirely fair characterization -- it's really inherent to how the entire stack works and a fix could go into any of a number of places. Each has its own level of making me want to puke :-/ It's definitely something that needs some more looking at before saying anything definitive for F7. Jeremy From gilboad at gmail.com Wed Jan 10 15:52:16 2007 From: gilboad at gmail.com (Gilboa Davara) Date: Wed, 10 Jan 2007 17:52:16 +0200 Subject: F7 KDE spin In-Reply-To: References: <45A2BABB.2090902@math.unl.edu> <1168337210.26164.7.camel@gilboa-work-dev.localdomain> <1168360736.2748.6.camel@gilboa-work-dev.localdomain> <16de708d0701091158w154ad747wa86d9da39aa924e3@mail.gmail.com> <1168435072.16494.41.camel@gilboa-work-dev.localdomain> Message-ID: <1168444336.28639.7.camel@gilboa-work-dev.localdomain> On Wed, 2007-01-10 at 15:43 +0000, Kevin Kofler wrote: > Gilboa Davara gmail.com> writes: > > I'm guessing here., but the rpm --requires list seems to suggest that at > > least half of the dependencies are already added by firefox. > > Then let's zap Firefox too, that's what Konqueror is for. > > Kevin Kofler > Sigh. This is a waste of time. - Gilboa From dennis at ausil.us Wed Jan 10 15:56:45 2007 From: dennis at ausil.us (Dennis Gilmore) Date: Wed, 10 Jan 2007 09:56:45 -0600 Subject: F7 KDE spin In-Reply-To: References: <45A2BABB.2090902@math.unl.edu> <1168435072.16494.41.camel@gilboa-work-dev.localdomain> Message-ID: <200701100956.45412.dennis@ausil.us> On Wednesday 10 January 2007 09:43, Kevin Kofler wrote: > Gilboa Davara gmail.com> writes: > > I'm guessing here., but the rpm --requires list seems to suggest that at > > least half of the dependencies are already added by firefox. > > Then let's zap Firefox too, that's what Konqueror is for. While i use konq for pretty much all my browsing i have times i need to use firefox. I really think we need both. -- ?,-._|\ ? ?Dennis Gilmore, RHCE /Aussie\ ? Proud Australian \_.--._/ ? | Aurora | Fedora | ? ? ? v ? ? From jan.kratochvil at redhat.com Wed Jan 10 15:59:04 2007 From: jan.kratochvil at redhat.com (Jan Kratochvil) Date: Wed, 10 Jan 2007 16:59:04 +0100 Subject: rawhide report: 20070110 changes In-Reply-To: <1168443501.5205.26.camel@kloczek01.pracownicy.zie> References: <200701101100.l0AB08Yl011093@hs20-bc2-6.build.redhat.com> <1168443501.5205.26.camel@kloczek01.pracownicy.zie> Message-ID: <20070110155903.GA15526@host0.dyn.jankratochvil.net> On Wed, 10 Jan 2007 16:38:21 +0100, Tomasz K?oczko wrote: > Dnia 10-01-2007, ?ro o godzinie 06:00 -0500, buildsys at redhat.com > napisa?(a): > > gdb-6.5-23.fc7 > > 2006-12-18 was released gdb 6.6. Thanks for the notice, to be imported soon as it will definitely reach FC7. Tracked at: https://bugzilla.redhat.com/bugzilla/show_bug.cgi?id=221125 Regards, Jan From dgboles at gmail.com Wed Jan 10 16:05:18 2007 From: dgboles at gmail.com (David Boles) Date: Wed, 10 Jan 2007 08:05:18 -0800 Subject: F7 KDE spin In-Reply-To: <1168444336.28639.7.camel@gilboa-work-dev.localdomain> References: <45A2BABB.2090902@math.unl.edu> <1168337210.26164.7.camel@gilboa-work-dev.localdomain> <1168360736.2748.6.camel@gilboa-work-dev.localdomain> <16de708d0701091158w154ad747wa86d9da39aa924e3@mail.gmail.com> <1168435072.16494.41.camel@gilboa-work-dev.localdomain> <1168444336.28639.7.camel@gilboa-work-dev.localdomain> Message-ID: <45A50EBE.2080109@gmail.com> -----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- Hash: SHA1 Gilboa Davara wrote: > On Wed, 2007-01-10 at 15:43 +0000, Kevin Kofler wrote: >> Gilboa Davara gmail.com> writes: >>> I'm guessing here., but the rpm --requires list seems to suggest that at >>> least half of the dependencies are already added by firefox. >> Then let's zap Firefox too, that's what Konqueror is for. >> >> Kevin Kofler >> > > Sigh. > This is a waste of time. Was it just last week that we had the 'install everything' people here? Now we have the 'install nothing' people. ;-) - -- David -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: GnuPG v1.4.5 (MingW32) iD8DBQFFpQ6+AO0wNI1X4QERAmxeAKDEaaSPIyzFHnSi3JW8m9zNFliqyQCfW4kc 0NnJSmh7PtWw2DEyLrvpMp8= =iUEk -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- From mbacovsk at redhat.com Wed Jan 10 16:17:49 2007 From: mbacovsk at redhat.com (Martin Bacovsky) Date: Wed, 10 Jan 2007 17:17:49 +0100 Subject: rawhide report: 20070110 changes In-Reply-To: <1168443138.5205.20.camel@kloczek01.pracownicy.zie> References: <200701101100.l0AB08Yl011093@hs20-bc2-6.build.redhat.com> <1168440793.5205.7.camel@kloczek01.pracownicy.zie> <200701101010.01742.jkeating@redhat.com> <1168442741.5205.13.camel@kloczek01.pracownicy.zie> <1168443138.5205.20.camel@kloczek01.pracownicy.zie> Message-ID: <45A511AD.7060407@redhat.com> Tomasz K?oczko wrote: >> OK byt last changes still are buggy because libmagick uses magick >> database which is in man package so have installed only file-libs will >> be unuseable. >> > > .. and have main package with only /usr/bin/file executable and man > pages (~24KB) probably isn't so good idea. > So IMO separate libmagic in subpackage cen be reverted. > BTW: it will be good pass --without-static to configure for not include > static libmagic. > > kloczek > You can use libmagick without magick database by providing it our own database. On the other hand I agree that libmagick would be more useful with file's database. Since I don't have problem with file package containing just binary and man page I'm going to move database to file-libs. Does anyone else think that separation of file and libmagick is not good idea? Martin From gilboad at gmail.com Wed Jan 10 16:20:03 2007 From: gilboad at gmail.com (Gilboa Davara) Date: Wed, 10 Jan 2007 18:20:03 +0200 Subject: F7 KDE spin In-Reply-To: References: <45A2BABB.2090902@math.unl.edu> <1168337210.26164.7.camel@gilboa-work-dev.localdomain> <1168360736.2748.6.camel@gilboa-work-dev.localdomain> <16de708d0701091158w154ad747wa86d9da39aa924e3@mail.gmail.com> <1168435072.16494.41.camel@gilboa-work-dev.localdomain> Message-ID: <1168446003.28639.35.camel@gilboa-work-dev.localdomain> On Wed, 2007-01-10 at 15:43 +0000, Kevin Kofler wrote: > Gilboa Davara gmail.com> writes: > > I'm guessing here., but the rpm --requires list seems to suggest that at > > least half of the dependencies are already added by firefox. > > Then let's zap Firefox too, that's what Konqueror is for. > > Kevin Kofler > Forgot to add the "why-did-I-sigh" part. You don't want to remove Firefox because Konq is the better tool - you want to remove Konq because it doesn't fit your purist view of KDE-only distribution. As such, I see little use in trying to explain my point - I doubt that you would actually take the time to listen. - Gilboa From chitlesh at fedoraproject.org Wed Jan 10 16:28:30 2007 From: chitlesh at fedoraproject.org (Chitlesh GOORAH) Date: Wed, 10 Jan 2007 17:28:30 +0100 Subject: F7 KDE spin, package splitting In-Reply-To: References: <45A2BABB.2090902@math.unl.edu> <200701082157.53135.lamont@gurulabs.com> <200701092257.25229.lamont@gurulabs.com> Message-ID: <13dbfe4f0701100828r304bf493q67e2ab6fa3b273c0@mail.gmail.com> On 1/10/07, Rex Dieter wrote: > OK, I agree, in theory. Now, any concrete suggestions (with > justifications)? (: Or perhaps, those who are willing to split packages write up in a table on the wiki in order to know who is working on what. Possibly or it may be a must, goes for a review afterwards. Chitlesh -- http://clunixchit.blogspot.com From gilboad at gmail.com Wed Jan 10 16:25:08 2007 From: gilboad at gmail.com (Gilboa Davara) Date: Wed, 10 Jan 2007 18:25:08 +0200 Subject: F7 KDE spin In-Reply-To: <45A50EBE.2080109@gmail.com> References: <45A2BABB.2090902@math.unl.edu> <1168337210.26164.7.camel@gilboa-work-dev.localdomain> <1168360736.2748.6.camel@gilboa-work-dev.localdomain> <16de708d0701091158w154ad747wa86d9da39aa924e3@mail.gmail.com> <1168435072.16494.41.camel@gilboa-work-dev.localdomain> <1168444336.28639.7.camel@gilboa-work-dev.localdomain> <45A50EBE.2080109@gmail.com> Message-ID: <1168446308.28639.41.camel@gilboa-work-dev.localdomain> On Wed, 2007-01-10 at 08:05 -0800, David Boles wrote: > -----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- > Hash: SHA1 > > Gilboa Davara wrote: > > On Wed, 2007-01-10 at 15:43 +0000, Kevin Kofler wrote: > >> Gilboa Davara gmail.com> writes: > >>> I'm guessing here., but the rpm --requires list seems to suggest that at > >>> least half of the dependencies are already added by firefox. > >> Then let's zap Firefox too, that's what Konqueror is for. > >> > >> Kevin Kofler > >> > > > > Sigh. > > This is a waste of time. > > > Was it just last week that we had the 'install everything' people here? Now we > have the 'install nothing' people. ;-) > > Next week we are having the Fedora/BSD, FedoraSource, and FedoraOnAFloppy groups. Bring fire-extinguishers. - Gilboa From kloczek at zie.pg.gda.pl Wed Jan 10 16:52:05 2007 From: kloczek at zie.pg.gda.pl (Tomasz =?UTF-8?Q?K=C5=82oczko?=) Date: Wed, 10 Jan 2007 17:52:05 +0100 Subject: rawhide report: 20070110 changes In-Reply-To: <45A511AD.7060407@redhat.com> References: <200701101100.l0AB08Yl011093@hs20-bc2-6.build.redhat.com> <1168440793.5205.7.camel@kloczek01.pracownicy.zie> <200701101010.01742.jkeating@redhat.com> <1168442741.5205.13.camel@kloczek01.pracownicy.zie> <1168443138.5205.20.camel@kloczek01.pracownicy.zie> <45A511AD.7060407@redhat.com> Message-ID: <1168447925.5205.37.camel@kloczek01.pracownicy.zie> Dnia 10-01-2007, ?ro o godzinie 17:17 +0100, Martin Bacovsky napisa?(a): [..] > Since I don't have problem with file package containing just binary > and man page I'm going to move database to file-libs. > > Does anyone else think that separation of file and libmagick is not > good idea? I don't know for which package from Extras you add this split but try to answer on question: if this package will be installed in system any other package will require /usr/bin/file ? If answer for this question will be "yes" separate libmagic and magic database to subpackage will be only kind of enlarging enthropy. kloczek From rdieter at math.unl.edu Wed Jan 10 16:56:55 2007 From: rdieter at math.unl.edu (Rex Dieter) Date: Wed, 10 Jan 2007 10:56:55 -0600 Subject: F7 KDE spin, package splitting References: <45A2BABB.2090902@math.unl.edu> <200701082157.53135.lamont@gurulabs.com> <200701092257.25229.lamont@gurulabs.com> <13dbfe4f0701100828r304bf493q67e2ab6fa3b273c0@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: Chitlesh GOORAH wrote: > On 1/10/07, Rex Dieter wrote: >> OK, I agree, in theory. Now, any concrete suggestions (with >> justifications)? (: > > Or perhaps, those who are willing to split packages write up in a > table on the wiki in order to know who is working on what. Don't care, though I'd rather try discussing things first, to avoid wasted effort. -- Rex From kevin.kofler at chello.at Wed Jan 10 16:57:07 2007 From: kevin.kofler at chello.at (Kevin Kofler) Date: Wed, 10 Jan 2007 16:57:07 +0000 (UTC) Subject: F7 KDE spin References: <45A2BABB.2090902@math.unl.edu> <1168337210.26164.7.camel@gilboa-work-dev.localdomain> <1168360736.2748.6.camel@gilboa-work-dev.localdomain> <16de708d0701091158w154ad747wa86d9da39aa924e3@mail.gmail.com> <1168435072.16494.41.camel@gilboa-work-dev.localdomain> <1168446003.28639.35.camel@gilboa-work-dev.localdomain> Message-ID: Gilboa Davara gmail.com> writes: > You don't want to remove Firefox because Konq is the better tool - you > want to remove [Firefox]* because it doesn't fit your purist view of KDE-only > distribution. Not really (though I see how you could get that impression). I use some non-KDE apps daily, X-Chat for example. (I like its C plugin interface, I have written a few script-like plugins in C for X-Chat. Most users will probably be happy with Konversation though, if they even use IRC at all.) I doubt the usefulness of Firefox in particular (over Konqueror) though (and the usefulness of Evolution even more, considering that I never use it whereas I use KMail all the time, and that AFAICS it gets more flames than any other application which ships with Fedora). Personally, I'd rather have X-Chat available than Firefox or Evolution, but that is my very biased personal preference. As for generally useful non-KDE apps (not just the one I happen to use the most ;-) ), I think OO.o and GIMP qualify, but IMHO not Firefox and definitely not Evolution. Ekiga might also be interesting, though that probably drags in several GNOME libs too. * I guess that's what you meant because otherwise your sentence makes no sense. ;-) Kevin Kofler From rdieter at math.unl.edu Wed Jan 10 16:59:35 2007 From: rdieter at math.unl.edu (Rex Dieter) Date: Wed, 10 Jan 2007 10:59:35 -0600 Subject: rawhide report: 20070110 changes References: <200701101100.l0AB08Yl011093@hs20-bc2-6.build.redhat.com> <1168440793.5205.7.camel@kloczek01.pracownicy.zie> <200701101010.01742.jkeating@redhat.com> <1168442741.5205.13.camel@kloczek01.pracownicy.zie> <1168443138.5205.20.camel@kloczek01.pracownicy.zie> <45A511AD.7060407@redhat.com> <1168447925.5205.37.camel@kloczek01.pracownicy.zie> Message-ID: Tomasz K?oczko wrote: > Dnia 10-01-2007, ?ro o godzinie 17:17 +0100, Martin Bacovsky napisa?(a): > [..] >> Since I don't have problem with file package containing just binary >> and man page I'm going to move database to file-libs. >> >> Does anyone else think that separation of file and libmagick is not >> good idea? > > I don't know for which package from Extras It was multilib fun, see http://bugzilla.redhat.com/214992 http://bugzilla.redhat.com/221041 -- Rex From kloczek at zie.pg.gda.pl Wed Jan 10 17:34:41 2007 From: kloczek at zie.pg.gda.pl (Tomasz =?UTF-8?Q?K=C5=82oczko?=) Date: Wed, 10 Jan 2007 18:34:41 +0100 Subject: rawhide report: 20070110 changes In-Reply-To: <200701101100.l0AB08Yl011093@hs20-bc2-6.build.redhat.com> References: <200701101100.l0AB08Yl011093@hs20-bc2-6.build.redhat.com> Message-ID: <1168450481.5205.45.camel@kloczek01.pracownicy.zie> Dnia 10-01-2007, ?ro o godzinie 06:00 -0500, buildsys at redhat.com napisa?(a): > gtk2-2.10.7-2.fc7 > ----------------- > * Tue Jan 09 2007 Behdad Esfahbod - 2.10.7-2 > - Configure with --with-included-loaders=png. Saves a page per > process What does it change ? Is it causes static linking pixbufloader-png.so into libgdk_pixbuf ? If yes probably if found some kind of bug because in files list sill is included %{_libdir}/gtk-2.0/2.10.0/loaders/libpixbufloader-png.so DSO. kloczek From davej at redhat.com Wed Jan 10 17:41:25 2007 From: davej at redhat.com (Dave Jones) Date: Wed, 10 Jan 2007 12:41:25 -0500 Subject: rawhide report: 20070108 changes In-Reply-To: <45A4D18B.4010607@leemhuis.info> References: <200701081113.l08BDBtT029997@hs20-bc2-6.build.redhat.com> <1168305395.3159.84.camel@vader.jdub.homelinux.org> <45A342B8.4020706@leemhuis.info> <200701090815.10970.jkeating@redhat.com> <20070109173914.GB10474@redhat.com> <45A3D700.4060606@leemhuis.info> <20070109180206.GB3417@redhat.com> <20070110105127.GB8195@neu.nirvana> <45A4D18B.4010607@leemhuis.info> Message-ID: <20070110174125.GA3603@redhat.com> On Wed, Jan 10, 2007 at 12:44:11PM +0100, Thorsten Leemhuis wrote: > On 10.01.2007 11:51, Axel Thimm wrote: > > > > So for the kernel, please do consider adjusting versioning to standard > > Fedora practices. Pretty, pretty please!!! > > BTW, I put the issue onto the FESCo schedule for tomorrows meeting > (18:00 UTC, #fedora-extras on freenode); we'll discuss the issue there. I'll be 30,000ft above the atlantic unfortunatly. Dave -- http://www.codemonkey.org.uk From gilboad at gmail.com Wed Jan 10 17:44:58 2007 From: gilboad at gmail.com (Gilboa Davara) Date: Wed, 10 Jan 2007 19:44:58 +0200 Subject: F7 KDE spin In-Reply-To: References: <45A2BABB.2090902@math.unl.edu> <1168337210.26164.7.camel@gilboa-work-dev.localdomain> <1168360736.2748.6.camel@gilboa-work-dev.localdomain> <16de708d0701091158w154ad747wa86d9da39aa924e3@mail.gmail.com> <1168435072.16494.41.camel@gilboa-work-dev.localdomain> <1168446003.28639.35.camel@gilboa-work-dev.localdomain> Message-ID: <1168451098.28639.51.camel@gilboa-work-dev.localdomain> On Wed, 2007-01-10 at 16:57 +0000, Kevin Kofler wrote: > Gilboa Davara gmail.com> writes: > > You don't want to remove Firefox because Konq is the better tool - you > > want to remove [Firefox]* because it doesn't fit your purist view of KDE-only > > distribution. > > Not really (though I see how you could get that impression). I use some non-KDE > apps daily, X-Chat for example. (I like its C plugin interface, I have written > a few script-like plugins in C for X-Chat. Most users will probably be happy > with Konversation though, if they even use IRC at all.) I doubt the usefulness > of Firefox in particular (over Konqueror) though (and the usefulness of > Evolution even more, considering that I never use it whereas I use KMail all > the time, and that AFAICS it gets more flames than any other application which > ships with Fedora). Personally, I'd rather have X-Chat available than Firefox > or Evolution, but that is my very biased personal preference. > > As for generally useful non-KDE apps (not just the one I happen to use the > most ;-) ), I think OO.o and GIMP qualify, but IMHO not Firefox and definitely > not Evolution. Ekiga might also be interesting, though that probably drags in > several GNOME libs too. > > * I guess that's what you meant because otherwise your sentence makes no > sense. ;-) > > Kevin Kofler > Guess I jumped the gun. My mistake, I apologize. I seem to be suffering from a mild case of sleep deprivation which makes a bit jumpy. Firefox is not a leanest/cleanest product - no arguments there. (Hopefully FF 3.0 will be a major improvement when it comes to bloat) But for now, firefox has 3 major advantages: A. Extensions. B. Better site compatibility. C. ... Extensions. A well configured (and extended) FF 1.5 runs circles around Konq/Opera/IE7. I'm not saying the Konq doesn't work for you - or that Firefox should be the default browser. I am saying the removing it from the ISO is a big mistake. - Gilboa From benny+usenet at amorsen.dk Wed Jan 10 17:52:00 2007 From: benny+usenet at amorsen.dk (Benny Amorsen) Date: 10 Jan 2007 18:52:00 +0100 Subject: Install nothing people References: <45A2BABB.2090902@math.unl.edu> <1168337210.26164.7.camel@gilboa-work-dev.localdomain> <1168360736.2748.6.camel@gilboa-work-dev.localdomain> <16de708d0701091158w154ad747wa86d9da39aa924e3@mail.gmail.com> <1168435072.16494.41.camel@gilboa-work-dev.localdomain> <1168444336.28639.7.camel@gilboa-work-dev.localdomain> <45A50EBE.2080109@gmail.com> Message-ID: >>>>> "DB" == David Boles writes: DB> Was it just last week that we had the 'install everything' people DB> here? Now we have the 'install nothing' people. ;-) Did anyone call? I'm just hoping that there'll be a minimal spin or premade kickstart file or something. All I need is enough to run yum -- or at least rpm -i http://..../yum-... (So basic ethernet IPv4 networking and rpm) /Benny From jwboyer at jdub.homelinux.org Wed Jan 10 18:00:52 2007 From: jwboyer at jdub.homelinux.org (Josh Boyer) Date: Wed, 10 Jan 2007 12:00:52 -0600 Subject: rawhide report: 20070108 changes In-Reply-To: <20070110174125.GA3603@redhat.com> References: <200701081113.l08BDBtT029997@hs20-bc2-6.build.redhat.com> <1168305395.3159.84.camel@vader.jdub.homelinux.org> <45A342B8.4020706@leemhuis.info> <200701090815.10970.jkeating@redhat.com> <20070109173914.GB10474@redhat.com> <45A3D700.4060606@leemhuis.info> <20070109180206.GB3417@redhat.com> <20070110105127.GB8195@neu.nirvana> <45A4D18B.4010607@leemhuis.info> <20070110174125.GA3603@redhat.com> Message-ID: <1168452052.3618.37.camel@zod.rchland.ibm.com> On Wed, 2007-01-10 at 12:41 -0500, Dave Jones wrote: > On Wed, Jan 10, 2007 at 12:44:11PM +0100, Thorsten Leemhuis wrote: > > On 10.01.2007 11:51, Axel Thimm wrote: > > > > > > So for the kernel, please do consider adjusting versioning to standard > > > Fedora practices. Pretty, pretty please!!! > > > > BTW, I put the issue onto the FESCo schedule for tomorrows meeting > > (18:00 UTC, #fedora-extras on freenode); we'll discuss the issue there. > > I'll be 30,000ft above the atlantic unfortunatly. The question basically boils down to this: are you _opposed_ to changing the naming to match the guidelines, or just too busy to actually do it. And if you're opposed, why? josh From fedora at leemhuis.info Wed Jan 10 18:25:09 2007 From: fedora at leemhuis.info (Thorsten Leemhuis) Date: Wed, 10 Jan 2007 19:25:09 +0100 Subject: proposal: mailing list reorganization Message-ID: <45A52F85.5020408@leemhuis.info> Hi all! Find below a proposal for a mailing list reorganization the board asked me to work on. It can also be found in the wiki at http://www.fedoraproject.org/wiki/ThorstenLeemhuis/MailingListReorganization and until now was only discussed slightly on the semi-private on fedora-advisory-board. This is the first public discussion. Happy flamefest! CU thl P.S.: We want to create the fedora-qa list (without the "-list" postfix -- see the end of the document) quite soon (early next week!). If you really dislike that part yell *now*. The other stuff will at least get a second public discussion. ############################### = Mailing list reorganization = A lot of people yelled "there are to many mailing lists; that is contra-productive and leads to a lot of confusion" (this is the short explanation without all the boring details). Thus the idea came up to revisit the Fedora mailing lists that got created in the past years since Fedora was born and do some adjustments. That means mainly: shut some down and adjust the usage model of some others. That's needed in parts for the Core and Extras merge in any case. This will be a really complex task and we won't make everybody happy with it, but we hope to improve the situations. The Fedora Board asked me, ThorstenLeemhuis (thl), to drive this task. You can find my proposal below, comments appreciated. Feel free to write a counter proposal if you think I did stuff (totally) wrong or if you think I ignored your comments (I read them all, but as I wrote: we can't make everyone happy -- but I'm trying my best to find a compromise thats better that what we have today and is acceptable for most of us). ---- = Main end Goal = The details how this goal is going to achieved can be found below, but here is a quick summary for those that don#t care about the details. The other goal is to get rid of those lists: * fedora-devel-list * fedora-maintainers * fedora-extras-list * fedora-test-list * fedora-triage-list * fedora-extras-commits * fedora-desktop-list * fedora-extras-steering * fedora-dsco-list In parallel we create some new: * fedora-devel -- For devel discussion. The "old" fedora-devel-list became quite noise and we want to avoid that with the new list. Thus the plan is to restrict it to well known open-source or project contributors and make it moderated for the rest of the world. Support questions regarding devel stuff are off topic here. * fedora-devel-discuss -- We need an open devel list for users as fedora-devel is restricted. Support questions regarding devel stuff are on topic here, too. * fedora-qa -- for wwoods and the QA group * fedora-project -- for discussions about the project as a whole that in the past often happend on the moderated/semi-closed fedora-advisory-board list (that will stay for now and hopefully gets removed in the long term). = Details how to achieve that end-goal = Some lists get renamed (users thus don't have to care about re-subscribing) and sone get closed. == Shut down == Meaning: Send a EOL message with some informations to the list and disallow further postings. Archieves remain accessible. Users get pointed to the new lists. === fedora-extras-list === Well, the "Core packages gets merged into the Extras framework" is official. The name "Extras" get obsolete by that and thus this list becomes obsolete. Users get pointed to two different lists instead: * topics regarding maintaining packages in the repo go to fedora-devel * questions regarding packaging and the guidlines around it shall be send to fedora-packaging in the future === fedora-test-list === A lot of people never got the difference between fedora-devel and fedora-test list and ask users support questions on fedora-devel. One of the reasons for this is that it was not obvious what "testing" means. Another reason: we answered those users question on fedora-devel, even if they were not on topic (and thus users asked again and again). And the topics for -devel and -test are to similar; sometimes the same things get discussed in parallel on both lists. Users get pointed to fedora-devel-discuss instead. === fedora-triage-list === Not used much anymore. Users ge pointed to fedora-qa-list instead (see below). === fedora-extras-commits === No difference between core and extras anymore. Send the stuff to fedora-cvs-commits in the future. (see below) === fedora-extras-steering === No FESCo anymore in the future, no private list for it anymore. An new list will be create for the FESCo successor when that got decided. === fedora-desktop-list === Not much traffic, seems the project has not much need for a dedicated list atm. If that changes again in the future create fedora-devel-desktop, to make its usage more obvious. === fedora-dsco-list === Not much traffic and it seems the Fedora Documentation Steering Committee agreeds to close this list. ---- == Create == We need some new lists, too. === fedora-qa === Create a fedora-qa to be used by wwoods efforts and his recruits. Will be created quite soon, probably before this discussion is finished, because the QA group asked for it quite some time ago already. Will get a seperate "topic" on the list where the qa-reports will get send; users then can subscribe to the qa-list, but can choose if they want to get the automatic reports.. === fedora-project === We until now have no real list where Ambassadors, packagers, programmers, art-people and other contributors can talk to each other about general stuff that's important to the project as a whole without getting lost in the noise or scared away with "this is off topic on this list" calls. fedora-advisory-board somehow was this list until now in parts, but it's moderated and thus even some project contributors that were not subscribed feel excluded (bad). Summaries from the project meetings (Ambassadors, Infrastructure, FESCo successor) shall get send to the list so people know what's going on in the project as a whole. === fedora-maintainers-announce === Created already, but not used until now. This is not a real mailing list for discussion, it's rather meant as a way to get really important information (policy changes, announcements for mass rebuilds, ...) out to all maintainers -- e.g. low traffic, normally less then 3-5 mails a months. The plan is to subscribe users semi-automatically from the accounts system to make sure we reach everyone. Some people question the use of this list; they want people subscribed to fedora-maintainers instead. But important informations can get lost there in the noise easily, and that would be bad. And some of our maintainers (e.g. upstream maintainers that co-maintain the fedora package) are not interested in all those discussions that happened on fedora-maintainers in the past. Reply-to of this list will be set to fedora-devel; that list will also get subscribed to fedora-maintainers-announce. Users can't unsubscribe manually from fedora-maintainers-announce list -- being on it is mandatory for all package contributors. ---- == Change policy == === fedora-advisory-board === The list remains for now, but we want to move most of the discussion into the wider public. fedora-project should thus be used for most of the stuff that got discussed on fedora-advisory-board in the past. But the advisory-list will remain for the purpose it was created for: a communication channel between important project contributors. We'll close it later if we notice that this is not needed anymore (that what some people hope) === fedora-cvs-commits === All commits should go here, but separated into topics (web, docs, F7, devel, ...), similar how we do it for how we do for fedora-packaging-announce ---- == Rename == === fedora-devel-list to fedora-devel-discuss === fedora-devel-discuss shall to a major part replace fedora-test-list an fedora-devel. Users can help each other here (and developers should keep any eye on it his list, too) if they have problems with running development or testing-channels. They can also discuss Fedora development there freely. === fedora-maintainers to fedora-devel === Rename to fedora-devel. Free to post for all fedora contributors (being in ambassadors, mentors, packagers, ...). Moderated for the rest of the world (we need a whole team of moderators for it). Be liberal and allow good-guys to post without being moderated, even if they are no fedora-contributors; that includes: * people that are well know and active in open-source land somewhere * people who work on upstream apps we package * people that have shown to be constructive after their posts got moderated for a while Enforce the devel topics and never ever answer support questions on that list -> those are on topic for fedora-devel-users. === fedora-laptop-list === Rename to fedora-hardware. Some people suggested to get rid of this completely, but having a dedicated list for hardware issues might be acceptable. ---- == Not sure == There are some list where I'm not sure if we still need them and/or need to adjust their policy. === fedora-list === This is mostly a list where users help he other. fedora-users would thus be a proper name that would make its use obvious. === Others === Some people questioned the needs for these lists. * fedora-games-list * fedora-r-devel-list * fedora-art * fedora-xen * fedora-websites Ask the list-maintainers if separate lists really make sense for these topics. fedora-games-list for example ---- == Miscellaneous == === Mailman guidelines === While at it let's define a standard look-and-feel for mailing lists, too. (FIXME: some mailman experts around? Is this sane?). Mailing list admins are strongly encouraged to follow this guidelines, but they don't have to if there are good reason for it (no, "I don't like it" is not a good reason!). Suggested setting (can all be found on the first mailman settings page) * the reply-to should not be modified by mailman (first_strip_reply_to = no) * the reply-to should point to the list (reply_goes_to_list = this list) * no explicit Reply-to-Address (reply_to_address = ) * no tagging (subject_prefix = ) === Legacy === Jesse will close fedora-legacy and fedora-legacy-announce in the near future. === To -list or not to list === Some of our mailing lists have the "-list" postfix, other not. I think all new lists should be created without it. === rawhide reports === We create another channel in fedora-package-announce where those kind of reports get mailed to. Don't send them to any other lists. Side note: A channel for the important packages might be helpful, because the reports will get quite long in the future after the extras and core merge. How about a channel that lists only changes in packages that are part of our most important spins Gnome, KDE and Server? == Notes == Ubuntu has similar problems; they splitted ubuntu-devel into ubuntu-devel and ubuntu-devel-discuss: https://lists.ubuntu.com/archives/ubuntu-devel/2006-December/023022.html EOF From avi at argo.co.il Wed Jan 10 18:48:41 2007 From: avi at argo.co.il (Avi Kivity) Date: Wed, 10 Jan 2007 20:48:41 +0200 Subject: [OT] kvm kernel module in fc6? In-Reply-To: <1168384684.4632.21.camel@aglarond.local> References: <561c252c0701091511p73488ae4q259d612b71ec3694@mail.gmail.com> <1168384684.4632.21.camel@aglarond.local> Message-ID: <45A53509.5090609@argo.co.il> Jeremy Katz wrote: > On Wed, 2007-01-10 at 00:11 +0100, Gianluca Cecchi wrote: > >> probably more correct to post to fedora extra, but as kernel is also >> affected, I try to post also here. Sorry for your extra-time. >> I have an updated fc6 (2.6.18-1.2869.fc6) and I installed the >> kvm-9-1.i386.rpm package found under extras-development. >> But this gives me only the user space modified version of qemu >> (qemu-kvm is the only file included). >> > > It's intentionally in the devel tree only as that's the only place where > the kernel has the support. When the FC6 kernel goes to 2.6.20 (which > it eventually will), then adding the package for FE6 will make sense. > It's fairly trivial to backport kvm (it runs as a module on kernels as old as 2.6.16) if it is desired to give FC6 users a technology preview. It would certainly help kvm by expanding the userbase. -- Do not meddle in the internals of kernels, for they are subtle and quick to panic. From mattdm at mattdm.org Wed Jan 10 18:50:52 2007 From: mattdm at mattdm.org (Matthew Miller) Date: Wed, 10 Jan 2007 13:50:52 -0500 Subject: [OT] kvm kernel module in fc6? In-Reply-To: <45A53509.5090609@argo.co.il> References: <561c252c0701091511p73488ae4q259d612b71ec3694@mail.gmail.com> <1168384684.4632.21.camel@aglarond.local> <45A53509.5090609@argo.co.il> Message-ID: <20070110185052.GA29696@jadzia.bu.edu> On Wed, Jan 10, 2007 at 08:48:41PM +0200, Avi Kivity wrote: > It's fairly trivial to backport kvm (it runs as a module on kernels as > old as 2.6.16) if it is desired to give FC6 users a technology preview. Go for it. -- Matthew Miller mattdm at mattdm.org Boston University Linux ------> From vonbrand at inf.utfsm.cl Wed Jan 10 18:52:58 2007 From: vonbrand at inf.utfsm.cl (Horst H. von Brand) Date: Wed, 10 Jan 2007 15:52:58 -0300 Subject: proposal: mailing list reorganization In-Reply-To: Message from Thorsten Leemhuis of "Wed, 10 Jan 2007 19:25:09 BST." <45A52F85.5020408@leemhuis.info> Message-ID: <200701101852.l0AIqwtU023793@laptop13.inf.utfsm.cl> Thorsten Leemhuis wrote: > Find below a proposal for a mailing list reorganization the board asked > me to work on. It can also be found in the wiki at > http://www.fedoraproject.org/wiki/ThorstenLeemhuis/MailingListReorganization > and until now was only discussed slightly on the semi-private on > fedora-advisory-board. This is the first public discussion. Happy > flamefest! Looks very sane to me. Perhaps create a template HTML page for the lists, pointing at documents on Netiquette, Smart-Questions-HOWTO and such? Take this as a starting point and put some mechanism into place by which new lists can be created (hopefully /very hard/ to do, too many lists is bad)? Something along the Usenet guidelines for creating new groups? That way you can defer the decision(s) for later... I don't know if you can make Mailman point at the archives of earlier lists, if not, the current archives should be linked into the pages of the successor list(s). Thanks for your work! -- Dr. Horst H. von Brand User #22616 counter.li.org Departamento de Informatica Fono: +56 32 2654431 Universidad Tecnica Federico Santa Maria +56 32 2654239 Casilla 110-V, Valparaiso, Chile Fax: +56 32 2797513 From orion at cora.nwra.com Wed Jan 10 18:57:27 2007 From: orion at cora.nwra.com (Orion Poplawski) Date: Wed, 10 Jan 2007 11:57:27 -0700 Subject: F7 KDE spin In-Reply-To: <200701092327.30149.lists@sapience.com> References: <45A2BABB.2090902@math.unl.edu> <200701092327.30149.lists@sapience.com> Message-ID: On Monday 08 January 2007 16:42, Rex Dieter wrote: > OK, I've slapped down a quick-n-dirty laundry list of items off the top > of my head to get started on the F7 KDE spin: > http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Releases/FeatureFedoraKDE > > Folks are welcome to contribute, criticize, add-to. > > -- Rex My take is to make it KDE only as much as possible. Let's make it so that people don't need non-KDE versions if possible. People can install anything else they want later. With the pace of updates they'll need to download new versions of basically everything at some point anyway. -- Orion Poplawski Technical Manager 303-415-9701 x222 NWRA/CoRA Division FAX: 303-415-9702 3380 Mitchell Lane orion at cora.nwra.com Boulder, CO 80301 http://www.cora.nwra.com From vonbrand at inf.utfsm.cl Wed Jan 10 19:05:23 2007 From: vonbrand at inf.utfsm.cl (Horst H. von Brand) Date: Wed, 10 Jan 2007 16:05:23 -0300 Subject: rawhide report: 20070108 changes In-Reply-To: Message from Josh Boyer of "Wed, 10 Jan 2007 12:00:52 MDT." <1168452052.3618.37.camel@zod.rchland.ibm.com> Message-ID: <200701101905.l0AJ5NJi024447@laptop13.inf.utfsm.cl> Josh Boyer wrote: > On Wed, 2007-01-10 at 12:41 -0500, Dave Jones wrote: > > On Wed, Jan 10, 2007 at 12:44:11PM +0100, Thorsten Leemhuis wrote: > > > On 10.01.2007 11:51, Axel Thimm wrote: > > > > > > > > So for the kernel, please do consider adjusting versioning to standard > > > > Fedora practices. Pretty, pretty please!!! > > > > > > BTW, I put the issue onto the FESCo schedule for tomorrows meeting > > > (18:00 UTC, #fedora-extras on freenode); we'll discuss the issue there. > > > > I'll be 30,000ft above the atlantic unfortunatly. > The question basically boils down to this: are you _opposed_ to > changing the naming to match the guidelines, or just too busy to > actually do it. And if you're opposed, why? False dichotomy. Third option is just to fix the guidelines. -- Dr. Horst H. von Brand User #22616 counter.li.org Departamento de Informatica Fono: +56 32 2654431 Universidad Tecnica Federico Santa Maria +56 32 2654239 Casilla 110-V, Valparaiso, Chile Fax: +56 32 2797513 From besfahbo at redhat.com Wed Jan 10 19:08:48 2007 From: besfahbo at redhat.com (Behdad Esfahbod) Date: Wed, 10 Jan 2007 14:08:48 -0500 Subject: rawhide report: 20070110 changes In-Reply-To: References: <200701101100.l0AB08Yl011093@hs20-bc2-6.build.redhat.com> Message-ID: <1168456128.25637.18.camel@home> On Wed, 2007-01-10 at 12:53 +0100, Gianluca Sforna wrote: > > Is the patented hinting algorithm still disabled in freetype? > If so, was an audit performed after OIN creation to determine if it's > now possible to enable it? Yes, it's disabled still. We'll probably wait until that patent expires (~2010). How does OIN affect real genuine patents with no prior art? OIN is to counter-attack rather bogus patent claims, not to allow us violate whatever patent we want. MP3 comes to mind first. -- behdad http://behdad.org/ -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: signature.asc Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 189 bytes Desc: This is a digitally signed message part URL: From nicolas.mailhot at laposte.net Wed Jan 10 19:20:38 2007 From: nicolas.mailhot at laposte.net (Nicolas Mailhot) Date: Wed, 10 Jan 2007 20:20:38 +0100 Subject: proposal: mailing list reorganization In-Reply-To: <45A52F85.5020408@leemhuis.info> References: <45A52F85.5020408@leemhuis.info> Message-ID: <1168456838.16118.4.camel@rousalka.dyndns.org> Le mercredi 10 janvier 2007 ? 19:25 +0100, Thorsten Leemhuis a ?crit : > === To -list or not to list === > > Some of our mailing lists have the "-list" postfix, other not. I think > all new lists should be created without it. Please make sure every Fedora list follow the same pattern. It makes procmail/filter recipes that much easier to write/maintain. That includes Return-Path, List-Id, X-loop, X-BeenThere? headers Do not hesitate to rename old lists if needed ? if we do a reorg let's not do it half-way. Regards, -- Nicolas Mailhot -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: signature.asc Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 197 bytes Desc: Ceci est une partie de message num?riquement sign?e URL: From pertusus at free.fr Wed Jan 10 19:22:27 2007 From: pertusus at free.fr (Patrice Dumas) Date: Wed, 10 Jan 2007 20:22:27 +0100 Subject: rawhide report: 20070110 changes In-Reply-To: <45A511AD.7060407@redhat.com> References: <200701101100.l0AB08Yl011093@hs20-bc2-6.build.redhat.com> <1168440793.5205.7.camel@kloczek01.pracownicy.zie> <200701101010.01742.jkeating@redhat.com> <1168442741.5205.13.camel@kloczek01.pracownicy.zie> <1168443138.5205.20.camel@kloczek01.pracownicy.zie> <45A511AD.7060407@redhat.com> Message-ID: <20070110192227.GA2660@free.fr> On Wed, Jan 10, 2007 at 05:17:49PM +0100, Martin Bacovsky wrote: > > Does anyone else think that separation of file and libmagick is not good > idea? I find that separating file and libmagick is a good idea. -- Pat From sundaram at fedoraproject.org Wed Jan 10 19:22:34 2007 From: sundaram at fedoraproject.org (Rahul Sundaram) Date: Thu, 11 Jan 2007 00:52:34 +0530 Subject: proposal: mailing list reorganization In-Reply-To: <1168456838.16118.4.camel@rousalka.dyndns.org> References: <45A52F85.5020408@leemhuis.info> <1168456838.16118.4.camel@rousalka.dyndns.org> Message-ID: <45A53CFA.500@fedoraproject.org> Nicolas Mailhot wrote: > Le mercredi 10 janvier 2007 ? 19:25 +0100, Thorsten Leemhuis a ?crit : > >> === To -list or not to list === >> >> Some of our mailing lists have the "-list" postfix, other not. I think >> all new lists should be created without it. > > Please make sure every Fedora list follow the same pattern. It makes > procmail/filter recipes that much easier to write/maintain. > > That includes Return-Path, List-Id, X-loop, X-BeenThere? headers > > Do not hesitate to rename old lists if needed ? if we do a reorg let's > not do it half-way. > Its even mentioned clearly in the wiki link that Thorsten posted. Do read it completely first. Rahul From andrewparker at bigfoot.com Wed Jan 10 19:22:11 2007 From: andrewparker at bigfoot.com (Andrew Parker) Date: Wed, 10 Jan 2007 14:22:11 -0500 Subject: F7 KDE spin In-Reply-To: <1168405733.22173.22.camel@mccallum.corsepiu.local> References: <45A2BABB.2090902@math.unl.edu> <1168337210.26164.7.camel@gilboa-work-dev.localdomain> <1168349230.26164.19.camel@gilboa-work-dev.localdomain> <13dbfe4f0701090923r42ae5aadw5cc65d3a7a90b49b@mail.gmail.com> <1168366823.2748.20.camel@gilboa-work-dev.localdomain> <13dbfe4f0701091106w1553b24fv28b7fcb5f5bb64ca@mail.gmail.com> <6c3f5e6c0701091449r4aeceda1pea72b93f70b6215c@mail.gmail.com> <1168405733.22173.22.camel@mccallum.corsepiu.local> Message-ID: <6c3f5e6c0701101122l61119752qdfec880b62089f96@mail.gmail.com> On 1/10/07, Ralf Corsepius wrote: > On Tue, 2007-01-09 at 17:49 -0500, Andrew Parker wrote: > > On 1/9/07, Chitlesh GOORAH wrote: > > > On 1/9/07, Gilboa Davara wrote: > > > > Asking them to download 100s of MB during the installation is a mistake. > > > > > > Then they will have to download the 100s of MB through downloads! > > > In the end, it is the same thing. > > > > Downloading hundreds of different files is much slower than > > downloading one file of the same size. > Only if having a very reliable and fast connection. With low bandwidth > or unreliable connections, the opposite applies. > > > Also, the initial spin is likely (?) to be downloaded via bittorrent, > > which is not an option for yum when it needs individual packages. > > > > A single iso download can also feed multiple PCs (up to 5 in my case), > > which is far more efficient than downloading the same hundreds of > > files several times over. > With a couple tricks applied (sharing yum caches over a network) yum can > do the same. well, i did think about setting up squid to do this job, but.. 1. yum uses mirrors. not knowing squid that much, i don't know if it can be convinced to consider different hosts and different paths to be the same? 2. not all of my pcs that i install on are local to each other, so wouldn't be able to benefit from this. besides, it is still the case that downloading hundreds of different files is much slower than downloading one file of the same size. From dgboles at gmail.com Wed Jan 10 16:51:44 2007 From: dgboles at gmail.com (David Boles) Date: Wed, 10 Jan 2007 08:51:44 -0800 Subject: F7 KDE spin In-Reply-To: <1168446308.28639.41.camel@gilboa-work-dev.localdomain> References: <45A2BABB.2090902@math.unl.edu> <1168337210.26164.7.camel@gilboa-work-dev.localdomain> <1168360736.2748.6.camel@gilboa-work-dev.localdomain> <16de708d0701091158w154ad747wa86d9da39aa924e3@mail.gmail.com> <1168435072.16494.41.camel@gilboa-work-dev.localdomain> <1168444336.28639.7.camel@gilboa-work-dev.localdomain> <45A50EBE.2080109@gmail.com> <1168446308.28639.41.camel@gilboa-work-dev.localdomain> Message-ID: <45A519A0.2020908@gmail.com> -----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- Hash: SHA1 Gilboa Davara wrote: > On Wed, 2007-01-10 at 08:05 -0800, David Boles wrote: >> -----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- >> Hash: SHA1 >> >> Gilboa Davara wrote: >>> On Wed, 2007-01-10 at 15:43 +0000, Kevin Kofler wrote: >>>> Gilboa Davara gmail.com> writes: >>>>> I'm guessing here., but the rpm --requires list seems to suggest that at >>>>> least half of the dependencies are already added by firefox. >>>> Then let's zap Firefox too, that's what Konqueror is for. >>>> >>>> Kevin Kofler >>>> >>> Sigh. >>> This is a waste of time. >> >> Was it just last week that we had the 'install everything' people here? Now we >> have the 'install nothing' people. ;-) >> >> > > Next week we are having the Fedora/BSD, FedoraSource, and > FedoraOnAFloppy groups. > Bring fire-extinguishers. Really? That could get interesting. 8-) Then long. Then boring. Thank goodness for filters. - -- David -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: GnuPG v1.4.5 (MingW32) iD8DBQFFpRmgAO0wNI1X4QERAoinAJ9UR5HF2hmjQoxneyzCCjYZktULgACfYvPE 5Co/dsyWV88giMk8L93xxhs= =1qnK -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- From dgboles at gmail.com Wed Jan 10 19:37:57 2007 From: dgboles at gmail.com (David Boles) Date: Wed, 10 Jan 2007 11:37:57 -0800 Subject: Install nothing people In-Reply-To: References: <45A2BABB.2090902@math.unl.edu> <1168337210.26164.7.camel@gilboa-work-dev.localdomain> <1168360736.2748.6.camel@gilboa-work-dev.localdomain> <16de708d0701091158w154ad747wa86d9da39aa924e3@mail.gmail.com> <1168435072.16494.41.camel@gilboa-work-dev.localdomain> <1168444336.28639.7.camel@gilboa-work-dev.localdomain> <45A50EBE.2080109@gmail.com> Message-ID: <45A54095.8060906@gmail.com> -----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- Hash: SHA1 Benny Amorsen wrote: >>>>>> "DB" == David Boles writes: > > DB> Was it just last week that we had the 'install everything' people > DB> here? Now we have the 'install nothing' people. ;-) > > Did anyone call? > > I'm just hoping that there'll be a minimal spin or premade kickstart > file or something. All I need is enough to run yum -- or at least rpm > -i http://..../yum-... (So basic ethernet IPv4 networking and rpm) Try the boot.iso. Only 7.9 Megs. It would fit on a mini-CD with room to spare. - -- David -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: GnuPG v1.4.5 (MingW32) iD8DBQFFpUCVAO0wNI1X4QERAoDtAKDIIm2T5aai7sWL9eqr1CgpKSDIAwCfZ4m6 ddxp6luJtkBzj+RC90RfWWE= =Ujgb -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- From tibbs at math.uh.edu Wed Jan 10 19:42:14 2007 From: tibbs at math.uh.edu (Jason L Tibbitts III) Date: 10 Jan 2007 13:42:14 -0600 Subject: rawhide report: 20070108 changes In-Reply-To: <200701101905.l0AJ5NJi024447@laptop13.inf.utfsm.cl> References: <200701101905.l0AJ5NJi024447@laptop13.inf.utfsm.cl> Message-ID: >>>>> "HHvB" == Horst H von Brand writes: HHvB> False dichotomy. Third option is just to fix the guidelines. Have you identified some deficiency in the guidelines? - J< From nicolas.mailhot at laposte.net Wed Jan 10 19:46:33 2007 From: nicolas.mailhot at laposte.net (Nicolas Mailhot) Date: Wed, 10 Jan 2007 20:46:33 +0100 Subject: proposal: mailing list reorganization In-Reply-To: <45A53CFA.500@fedoraproject.org> References: <45A52F85.5020408@leemhuis.info> <1168456838.16118.4.camel@rousalka.dyndns.org> <45A53CFA.500@fedoraproject.org> Message-ID: <1168458396.16118.6.camel@rousalka.dyndns.org> Le jeudi 11 janvier 2007 ? 00:52 +0530, Rahul Sundaram a ?crit : > Its even mentioned clearly in the wiki link that Thorsten posted. Do > read it completely first. Not to this level of detail. And I care about this level of detail, because that's where we have subtle variations right now. -- Nicolas Mailhot -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: signature.asc Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 197 bytes Desc: Ceci est une partie de message num?riquement sign?e URL: From jwboyer at jdub.homelinux.org Wed Jan 10 19:47:52 2007 From: jwboyer at jdub.homelinux.org (Josh Boyer) Date: Wed, 10 Jan 2007 13:47:52 -0600 Subject: rawhide report: 20070108 changes In-Reply-To: <200701101905.l0AJ5NJi024447@laptop13.inf.utfsm.cl> References: <200701101905.l0AJ5NJi024447@laptop13.inf.utfsm.cl> Message-ID: <1168458472.3618.48.camel@zod.rchland.ibm.com> On Wed, 2007-01-10 at 16:05 -0300, Horst H. von Brand wrote: > Josh Boyer wrote: > > On Wed, 2007-01-10 at 12:41 -0500, Dave Jones wrote: > > > On Wed, Jan 10, 2007 at 12:44:11PM +0100, Thorsten Leemhuis wrote: > > > > On 10.01.2007 11:51, Axel Thimm wrote: > > > > > > > > > > So for the kernel, please do consider adjusting versioning to standard > > > > > Fedora practices. Pretty, pretty please!!! > > > > > > > > BTW, I put the issue onto the FESCo schedule for tomorrows meeting > > > > (18:00 UTC, #fedora-extras on freenode); we'll discuss the issue there. > > > > > > I'll be 30,000ft above the atlantic unfortunatly. > > > The question basically boils down to this: are you _opposed_ to > > changing the naming to match the guidelines, or just too busy to > > actually do it. And if you're opposed, why? > > False dichotomy. Third option is just to fix the guidelines. Um... what? /me is highly confused. I asked if Dave was opposed, and if so to explain why. If his explanation would point out deficiencies in the guidelines, then we can certainly address those and perhaps fix them. Until then, I know of no problems with the guidelines themselves. Which leads to "if it ain't broke, don't fix it" :) josh From jwboyer at jdub.homelinux.org Wed Jan 10 19:48:55 2007 From: jwboyer at jdub.homelinux.org (Josh Boyer) Date: Wed, 10 Jan 2007 13:48:55 -0600 Subject: proposal: mailing list reorganization In-Reply-To: <1168458396.16118.6.camel@rousalka.dyndns.org> References: <45A52F85.5020408@leemhuis.info> <1168456838.16118.4.camel@rousalka.dyndns.org> <45A53CFA.500@fedoraproject.org> <1168458396.16118.6.camel@rousalka.dyndns.org> Message-ID: <1168458535.3618.50.camel@zod.rchland.ibm.com> On Wed, 2007-01-10 at 20:46 +0100, Nicolas Mailhot wrote: > Le jeudi 11 janvier 2007 ? 00:52 +0530, Rahul Sundaram a ?crit : > > > Its even mentioned clearly in the wiki link that Thorsten posted. Do > > read it completely first. > > Not to this level of detail. > And I care about this level of detail, because that's where we have > subtle variations right now. You realize that it'll break any existing filters if we go off renaming things right? josh From jkeating at redhat.com Wed Jan 10 19:56:33 2007 From: jkeating at redhat.com (Jesse Keating) Date: Wed, 10 Jan 2007 14:56:33 -0500 Subject: proposal: mailing list reorganization In-Reply-To: <1168458535.3618.50.camel@zod.rchland.ibm.com> References: <45A52F85.5020408@leemhuis.info> <1168458396.16118.6.camel@rousalka.dyndns.org> <1168458535.3618.50.camel@zod.rchland.ibm.com> Message-ID: <200701101456.33761.jkeating@redhat.com> On Wednesday 10 January 2007 14:48, Josh Boyer wrote: > > Not to this level of detail. > > And I care about this level of detail, because that's where we have > > subtle variations right now. > > You realize that it'll break any existing filters if we go off renaming > things right? Not to mention that one can't really easily "rename" a list. Most often it is close one list, open a new one, mass subscribe. Its that last step that gets our IS in a tiff, as mass subscribing without end user consent is tatamount to spam, and we REALLY don't want to be a spam company. -- Jesse Keating Release Engineer: Fedora -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 189 bytes Desc: not available URL: From mattdm at mattdm.org Wed Jan 10 20:03:59 2007 From: mattdm at mattdm.org (Matthew Miller) Date: Wed, 10 Jan 2007 15:03:59 -0500 Subject: Install nothing people In-Reply-To: <45A54095.8060906@gmail.com> References: <1168337210.26164.7.camel@gilboa-work-dev.localdomain> <1168360736.2748.6.camel@gilboa-work-dev.localdomain> <16de708d0701091158w154ad747wa86d9da39aa924e3@mail.gmail.com> <1168435072.16494.41.camel@gilboa-work-dev.localdomain> <1168444336.28639.7.camel@gilboa-work-dev.localdomain> <45A50EBE.2080109@gmail.com> <45A54095.8060906@gmail.com> Message-ID: <20070110200359.GA475@jadzia.bu.edu> On Wed, Jan 10, 2007 at 11:37:57AM -0800, David Boles wrote: > > DB> Was it just last week that we had the 'install everything' people > > DB> here? Now we have the 'install nothing' people. ;-) > > Did anyone call? > > I'm just hoping that there'll be a minimal spin or premade kickstart > > file or something. All I need is enough to run yum -- or at least rpm > > -i http://..../yum-... (So basic ethernet IPv4 networking and rpm) > Try the boot.iso. Only 7.9 Megs. It would fit on a mini-CD with room to > spare. It's still nice to then have that install CD put a very minimal set of packages on the system, which you can then add to as needed. -- Matthew Miller mattdm at mattdm.org Boston University Linux ------> From rob at choralone.org Wed Jan 10 20:12:18 2007 From: rob at choralone.org (Rob Andrews) Date: Wed, 10 Jan 2007 20:12:18 +0000 Subject: rawhide report: 20070110 changes In-Reply-To: <200701101100.l0AB08Yl011093@hs20-bc2-6.build.redhat.com> References: <200701101100.l0AB08Yl011093@hs20-bc2-6.build.redhat.com> Message-ID: <20070110201218.GA27894@aphasia.badger.choralone.org> On 10-Jan-2007 11:00.08 (GMT), buildsys at redhat.com wrote: > dejavu-lgc-fonts-2.13-1 > ----------------------- > * Tue Jan 09 2007 Behdad Esfahbod - 2.13-1 > - Update to 2.13 > - Use .bz2 tarball I can't use DejaVu LGC Sans Condensed any more. It just chucks out DejaVu LGC Sans Bold instead. It's not related to the freetype update, as the same thing happens with the freetype-2.2.1-16.fc6 RPM (and I've cleared the fonts.cache files). Oddly, running gnome-font-viewer on DejaVuLGCSansCondensed.ttf displays it just fine - it's only when selecting it in gnome font dialogs I get the wrong font. -- rob andrews :: pgp 0x01e00563 :: rob at choralone.org From nicolas.mailhot at laposte.net Wed Jan 10 20:16:54 2007 From: nicolas.mailhot at laposte.net (Nicolas Mailhot) Date: Wed, 10 Jan 2007 21:16:54 +0100 Subject: proposal: mailing list reorganization In-Reply-To: <1168458535.3618.50.camel@zod.rchland.ibm.com> References: <45A52F85.5020408@leemhuis.info> <1168456838.16118.4.camel@rousalka.dyndns.org> <45A53CFA.500@fedoraproject.org> <1168458396.16118.6.camel@rousalka.dyndns.org> <1168458535.3618.50.camel@zod.rchland.ibm.com> Message-ID: <1168460214.3393.2.camel@rousalka.dyndns.org> Le mercredi 10 janvier 2007 ? 13:48 -0600, Josh Boyer a ?crit : > On Wed, 2007-01-10 at 20:46 +0100, Nicolas Mailhot wrote: > > Le jeudi 11 janvier 2007 ? 00:52 +0530, Rahul Sundaram a ?crit : > > > > > Its even mentioned clearly in the wiki link that Thorsten posted. Do > > > read it completely first. > > > > Not to this level of detail. > > And I care about this level of detail, because that's where we have > > subtle variations right now. > > You realize that it'll break any existing filters if we go off renaming > things right? The other renamings will break filters anyway. There's only one thing worse than incompatible changes ? halfway-incompatible changes. -- Nicolas Mailhot -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: signature.asc Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 197 bytes Desc: Ceci est une partie de message num?riquement sign?e URL: From nicolas.mailhot at laposte.net Wed Jan 10 20:25:50 2007 From: nicolas.mailhot at laposte.net (Nicolas Mailhot) Date: Wed, 10 Jan 2007 21:25:50 +0100 Subject: rawhide report: 20070110 changes In-Reply-To: <20070110201218.GA27894@aphasia.badger.choralone.org> References: <200701101100.l0AB08Yl011093@hs20-bc2-6.build.redhat.com> <20070110201218.GA27894@aphasia.badger.choralone.org> Message-ID: <1168460750.3393.4.camel@rousalka.dyndns.org> Le mercredi 10 janvier 2007 ? 20:12 +0000, Rob Andrews a ?crit : > It's not related to the freetype update, as the same thing happens > with the > freetype-2.2.1-16.fc6 RPM (and I've cleared the fonts.cache files). Try to log out or force a fc-cache update -- Nicolas Mailhot -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: signature.asc Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 197 bytes Desc: Ceci est une partie de message num?riquement sign?e URL: From besfahbo at redhat.com Wed Jan 10 20:30:51 2007 From: besfahbo at redhat.com (Behdad Esfahbod) Date: Wed, 10 Jan 2007 15:30:51 -0500 Subject: rawhide report: 20070110 changes In-Reply-To: <20070110201218.GA27894@aphasia.badger.choralone.org> References: <200701101100.l0AB08Yl011093@hs20-bc2-6.build.redhat.com> <20070110201218.GA27894@aphasia.badger.choralone.org> Message-ID: <1168461051.25637.24.camel@home> On Wed, 2007-01-10 at 20:12 +0000, Rob Andrews wrote: > On 10-Jan-2007 11:00.08 (GMT), buildsys at redhat.com wrote: > > dejavu-lgc-fonts-2.13-1 > > ----------------------- > > * Tue Jan 09 2007 Behdad Esfahbod - 2.13-1 > > - Update to 2.13 > > - Use .bz2 tarball > > I can't use DejaVu LGC Sans Condensed any more. It just chucks out DejaVu > LGC Sans Bold instead. Please file a bug at Red Hat bugzilla and I'll look into it. > It's not related to the freetype update, as the same thing happens with the > freetype-2.2.1-16.fc6 RPM (and I've cleared the fonts.cache files). > > Oddly, running gnome-font-viewer on DejaVuLGCSansCondensed.ttf displays it > just fine - it's only when selecting it in gnome font dialogs I get the > wrong font. > > -- > rob andrews :: pgp 0x01e00563 :: rob at choralone.org > -- behdad http://behdad.org/ -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: signature.asc Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 189 bytes Desc: This is a digitally signed message part URL: From sander at hoentjen.eu Wed Jan 10 20:57:55 2007 From: sander at hoentjen.eu (Sander Hoentjen) Date: Wed, 10 Jan 2007 21:57:55 +0100 Subject: firefox from devel and randr In-Reply-To: <45A4BB19.1030808@olen.net> References: <1168421500.26738.13.camel@peecee.hoentjen.eu> <45A4BB19.1030808@olen.net> Message-ID: <1168462675.26738.23.camel@peecee.hoentjen.eu> On Wed, 2007-01-10 at 11:08 +0100, Ola Thoresen wrote: > Sander Hoentjen wrote: > > Hi, > > > > I just tried to google for randr, but this causes a segmentation fault > > in firefox. Is this a local thing or do others see this too? > > I am running latest rawhide on x86_64 > > I have had multiple pages make Firefox-x86_64 in rawhide explode lately, > but as it does not give any clue as to why it happens I have not posted > any bugreports yet. > > A google search for "randr" does not make it happen here, but > ironically, it happes quite often while browsing www.mozilla.org > Right now it has crashed several times on > http://www.mozilla.org/products/thunderbird/ > Hmm, it seems /usr/lib64/pango/1.6.0/modules/pango-basic-fc.so has gone missing from my system, that might be the reason From rob at choralone.org Wed Jan 10 21:05:49 2007 From: rob at choralone.org (Rob Andrews) Date: Wed, 10 Jan 2007 21:05:49 +0000 Subject: rawhide report: 20070110 changes In-Reply-To: <1168460750.3393.4.camel@rousalka.dyndns.org> References: <200701101100.l0AB08Yl011093@hs20-bc2-6.build.redhat.com> <20070110201218.GA27894@aphasia.badger.choralone.org> <1168460750.3393.4.camel@rousalka.dyndns.org> Message-ID: <20070110210549.GA11101@aphasia.badger.choralone.org> On 10-Jan-2007 20:25.50 (GMT), Nicolas Mailhot wrote: > > It's not related to the freetype update, as the same thing happens > > with the > > freetype-2.2.1-16.fc6 RPM (and I've cleared the fonts.cache files). > Try to log out or force a fc-cache update Tried --force & --really-force to no avail. -- rob andrews :: pgp 0x01e00563 :: rob at choralone.org From bojan at rexursive.com Wed Jan 10 21:26:56 2007 From: bojan at rexursive.com (Bojan Smojver) Date: Wed, 10 Jan 2007 21:26:56 +0000 (UTC) Subject: proposal: mailing list reorganization References: <45A52F85.5020408@leemhuis.info> Message-ID: Thorsten Leemhuis leemhuis.info> writes: > * fedora-devel-discuss -- We need an open devel list for users as > fedora-devel is restricted. Support questions regarding devel stuff are > on topic here, too. Fedora-devel-discuss list should be called fedora-devel-users. The name devel-discuss would suggest that one discusses development issues on this list, where in fact it is for development code users. Regarding fedora-devel, the plan is: > Thus the plan is to restrict it to well known open-source or project > contributors and make it moderated for the rest of the world. So, when a new person attempts to subscribe to this list (say, a Debian or ASF developer), someone is going to check this person's FOSS credentials before membership is accepted, right? How is this going to be organised and will there be objective criteria for "well known"? -- Bojan From drago01 at gmail.com Wed Jan 10 21:30:01 2007 From: drago01 at gmail.com (dragoran) Date: Wed, 10 Jan 2007 22:30:01 +0100 Subject: experimental 2.6.19 kernel preview. In-Reply-To: <1168185729.3159.47.camel@vader.jdub.homelinux.org> References: <1167812088.3567.9.camel@sonlaptop> <20070103173644.GA3862@kerouac> <20070103190743.6bd0fef8@lain.camperquake.de> <20070103191657.GB3862@kerouac> <20070103225824.GA11354@redhat.com> <20070104090244.115940@gmx.net> <20070104172302.GB3129@redhat.com> <20070107040605.GC1905@redhat.com> <45A0B3B4.20402@gmail.com> <1168185729.3159.47.camel@vader.jdub.homelinux.org> Message-ID: <45A55AD9.3090906@gmail.com> Josh Boyer wrote: > [...] > Um... This is a FC-6 erratum. Let's not go enabling new stuff in a > released version. Rawhide is where this should be enabled first. > > I disagree here.. enabling a new filesystem driver in a errata kernel can't break anything (=no regressions) because the driver was not enabled before and it won't get loaded until you do it manually. so I see no reason not to enable it. > josh > > From rob at choralone.org Wed Jan 10 21:37:44 2007 From: rob at choralone.org (Rob Andrews) Date: Wed, 10 Jan 2007 21:37:44 +0000 Subject: rawhide report: 20070110 changes In-Reply-To: <1168461051.25637.24.camel@home> References: <200701101100.l0AB08Yl011093@hs20-bc2-6.build.redhat.com> <20070110201218.GA27894@aphasia.badger.choralone.org> <1168461051.25637.24.camel@home> Message-ID: <20070110213744.GB11101@aphasia.badger.choralone.org> On 10-Jan-2007 20:30.51 (GMT), Behdad Esfahbod wrote: > > I can't use DejaVu LGC Sans Condensed any more. It just chucks out DejaVu > > LGC Sans Bold instead. > Please file a bug at Red Hat bugzilla and I'll look into it. #222207. -- rob andrews :: pgp 0x01e00563 :: rob at choralone.org From jwboyer at jdub.homelinux.org Wed Jan 10 21:41:54 2007 From: jwboyer at jdub.homelinux.org (Josh Boyer) Date: Wed, 10 Jan 2007 15:41:54 -0600 Subject: experimental 2.6.19 kernel preview. In-Reply-To: <45A55AD9.3090906@gmail.com> References: <1167812088.3567.9.camel@sonlaptop> <20070103173644.GA3862@kerouac> <20070103190743.6bd0fef8@lain.camperquake.de> <20070103191657.GB3862@kerouac> <20070103225824.GA11354@redhat.com> <20070104090244.115940@gmx.net> <20070104172302.GB3129@redhat.com> <20070107040605.GC1905@redhat.com> <45A0B3B4.20402@gmail.com> <1168185729.3159.47.camel@vader.jdub.homelinux.org> <45A55AD9.3090906@gmail.com> Message-ID: <1168465314.3618.61.camel@zod.rchland.ibm.com> On Wed, 2007-01-10 at 22:30 +0100, dragoran wrote: > Josh Boyer wrote: > > [...] > > Um... This is a FC-6 erratum. Let's not go enabling new stuff in a > > released version. Rawhide is where this should be enabled first. > > > > > I disagree here.. > enabling a new filesystem driver in a errata kernel can't break anything > (=no regressions) because the driver was not enabled before and it won't > get loaded until you do it manually. > so I see no reason not to enable it. We'll have to agree to disagree. It can cause yet more burden on the kernel developers if lots of people start enabling and loading it and it breaks. And "now I can mount my ntfs partitions and just use that" is quite and incentive for people to try. As for regressions, it's in the kernel. It can break anything if has a bug and starts corrupting memory. It has no place in FC-6 IMHO. It should be shaken out in rawhide first. josh From kwade at redhat.com Wed Jan 10 21:55:32 2007 From: kwade at redhat.com (Karsten Wade) Date: Wed, 10 Jan 2007 13:55:32 -0800 Subject: proposal: mailing list reorganization In-Reply-To: <45A52F85.5020408@leemhuis.info> References: <45A52F85.5020408@leemhuis.info> Message-ID: <1168466132.3113.244.camel@erato.phig.org> On Wed, 2007-01-10 at 19:25 +0100, Thorsten Leemhuis wrote: > The other goal is to get rid of those lists: > * fedora-dsco-list Still no, leave that list as-is, thanks. We'll let the next FDSCo decide to keep or vaporize. - Karsten -- Karsten Wade, RHCE, 108 Editor ^ Fedora Documentation Project Sr. Developer Relations Mgr. | fedoraproject.org/wiki/DocsProject quaid.108.redhat.com | gpg key: AD0E0C41 ////////////////////////////////// \\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\ -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: signature.asc Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 189 bytes Desc: This is a digitally signed message part URL: From kwade at redhat.com Wed Jan 10 22:12:32 2007 From: kwade at redhat.com (Karsten Wade) Date: Wed, 10 Jan 2007 14:12:32 -0800 Subject: proposal: mailing list reorganization In-Reply-To: <45A52F85.5020408@leemhuis.info> References: <45A52F85.5020408@leemhuis.info> Message-ID: <1168467152.3113.255.camel@erato.phig.org> On Wed, 2007-01-10 at 19:25 +0100, Thorsten Leemhuis wrote: > === fedora-dsco-list === > > Not much traffic and it seems the Fedora Documentation Steering > Committee agreeds to close this list. Again, sorry about the confusion, we've put aside this issue until after elections; if FDSCo decides to shut down the list, we'll take care of the details. > === fedora-project === +1 Beautiful idea. > === fedora-cvs-commits === > > All commits should go here, but separated into topics (web, docs, F7, > devel, ...), similar how we do it for how we do for > fedora-packaging-announce Hmm, interesting. This is going to increase mail traffic and new contributor complexity, and to what advantage? Right now there is fedora-docs-commits for all that goes into /cvs/docs, and that is all that cvsdocs users are required to subscribe to. This proposal increases CVS commit traffic to our mailboxes by 100-fold? 1000-fold? With projects have a lower technical experience to get involved, such as the Documentation Project, asking people to get on a firehose list (fedora-cvs-commits) and customize a rule to only get the traffic from /cvs/docs ... it seems like a step in the wrong direction, away from making it easier and more pleasant to be a contributor. Heck, I fear the websieve rule I have to figure out to get this work. That's an hour of my time I'd like to spend elsewhere. :) > === Others === > > Some people questioned the needs for these lists. > * fedora-websites Maybe under a new name, but there is an implicit agreement that Infrastructure /= Web developers. fedora-websites serves as the central spot for the project that needs to formally come alive, i.e., Fedora Web Team or something. Similar gang of people perhaps, but very different scopes. There are my spare nickels worth of thoughts, - Karsten -- Karsten Wade, RHCE, 108 Editor ^ Fedora Documentation Project Sr. Developer Relations Mgr. | fedoraproject.org/wiki/DocsProject quaid.108.redhat.com | gpg key: AD0E0C41 ////////////////////////////////// \\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\ -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: signature.asc Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 189 bytes Desc: This is a digitally signed message part URL: From katzj at redhat.com Wed Jan 10 22:17:52 2007 From: katzj at redhat.com (Jeremy Katz) Date: Wed, 10 Jan 2007 17:17:52 -0500 Subject: proposal: mailing list reorganization In-Reply-To: <1168467152.3113.255.camel@erato.phig.org> References: <45A52F85.5020408@leemhuis.info> <1168467152.3113.255.camel@erato.phig.org> Message-ID: <1168467472.4632.61.camel@aglarond.local> On Wed, 2007-01-10 at 14:12 -0800, Karsten Wade wrote: > On Wed, 2007-01-10 at 19:25 +0100, Thorsten Leemhuis wrote: > > === fedora-cvs-commits === > > > > All commits should go here, but separated into topics (web, docs, F7, > > devel, ...), similar how we do it for how we do for > > fedora-packaging-announce > > Hmm, interesting. This is going to increase mail traffic and new > contributor complexity, and to what advantage? > > Right now there is fedora-docs-commits for all that goes into /cvs/docs, > and that is all that cvsdocs users are required to subscribe to. This > proposal increases CVS commit traffic to our mailboxes by 100-fold? > 1000-fold? With the topics support in mailman and using them, it becomes "subscribe to fedora-cvs-commits and set your topic preference to Docs". And then we ensure that docs commits are the ones with said topic set. So there's no need for filtering except at subscription time. Jeremy From brugolsky at telemetry-investments.com Wed Jan 10 22:31:27 2007 From: brugolsky at telemetry-investments.com (Bill Rugolsky Jr.) Date: Wed, 10 Jan 2007 17:31:27 -0500 Subject: [OT] kvm kernel module in fc6? In-Reply-To: <45A53509.5090609@argo.co.il> References: <561c252c0701091511p73488ae4q259d612b71ec3694@mail.gmail.com> <1168384684.4632.21.camel@aglarond.local> <45A53509.5090609@argo.co.il> Message-ID: <20070110223127.GF31540@ti64.telemetry-investments.com> On Wed, Jan 10, 2007 at 08:48:41PM +0200, Avi Kivity wrote: > Jeremy Katz wrote: > >On Wed, 2007-01-10 at 00:11 +0100, Gianluca Cecchi wrote: > > > >>probably more correct to post to fedora extra, but as kernel is also > >>affected, I try to post also here. Sorry for your extra-time. > >>I have an updated fc6 (2.6.18-1.2869.fc6) and I installed the > >>kvm-9-1.i386.rpm package found under extras-development. > >>But this gives me only the user space modified version of qemu > >>(qemu-kvm is the only file included). > >> > > > >It's intentionally in the devel tree only as that's the only place where > >the kernel has the support. When the FC6 kernel goes to 2.6.20 (which > >it eventually will), then adding the package for FE6 will make sense. > > > > It's fairly trivial to backport kvm (it runs as a module on kernels as > old as 2.6.16) if it is desired to give FC6 users a technology preview. > > It would certainly help kvm by expanding the userbase. The attached DKMS module RPM spec file WorksForMe. -Bill -------------- next part -------------- %define module kvm Name: dkms-%{module} Version: 10 Release: 0.1 Summary: DKMS package for the %{module} kernel module Group: System Environment/Kernel License: GPL URL: http://kvm.sourceforge.net Source0: %{module}-%{version}.tar.gz Source1: %{module}-dkms.conf BuildRoot: %{_tmppath}/%{name}-%{version}-%{release}-root-%(%{__id_u} -n) BuildArchitectures: noarch Requires: dkms %description This driver provides hardware-assisted Kernel-based virtualization, utilizing the QEMU BIOS and device emulation. Requires an Intel-VT or or AMD-SVM capable processor. KVM extends the existing kernel and user execution modes to include a third: guest. Virtual machines created with KVM are Linux processes, and behave similarly to dosemu operating in vm86 mode: they can be scheduled, traced, killed, etc. All VM I/O is done by trapping to userspace. On x86_64 platforms, KVM supports both 32-bit and 64-bit guests. This package provides the kernel driver module. It is used in conjunction with the kvm userpace tools. %prep %setup -q -n %{module}-%{version} cd kernel sed -e 's/\@VERSION@/%{version}/g' < %{SOURCE1} > dkms.conf %build %install [ "%{buildroot}" != "/" ] && rm -rf "%{buildroot}" mkdir -p %{buildroot}/usr/src/%{module}-%{version}-%{release}/ tar -C kernel -c . | tar -xC %{buildroot}/usr/src/%{module}-%{version}-%{release}/ %clean [ "%{buildroot}" != "/" ] && rm -rf "%{buildroot}" %files %defattr(-,root,root) %attr(0755,root,root) /usr/src/%{module}-%{version}-%{release}/ %post set -x # dkms should (un)set ARCH, but it does not. unset ARCH /usr/sbin/dkms --rpm_safe_upgrade add -m %{module} -v %{version}-%{release} && \ /usr/sbin/dkms --rpm_safe_upgrade build -m %{module} -v %{version}-%{release} && \ /usr/sbin/dkms --rpm_safe_upgrade install -m %{module} -v %{version}-%{release} || : %preun set -x unset ARCH /usr/sbin/dkms --rpm_safe_upgrade remove -m %{module} -v %{version}-%{release} --all || : %changelog * Mon Jan 08 2007 Bill Rugolsky 10-0..1 - kvm-10. * Fri Aug 18 2006 Bill Rugolsky 7-0.1 - Initial packaging. -------------- next part -------------- PACKAGE_NAME=kvm PACKAGE_VERSION=@VERSION@ DEST_MODULE_LOCATION[0]="/kernel/drivers/kvm" BUILT_MODULE_NAME[0]=kvm DEST_MODULE_LOCATION[1]="/kernel/drivers/kvm" BUILT_MODULE_NAME[1]=kvm-amd DEST_MODULE_LOCATION[2]="/kernel/drivers/kvm" BUILT_MODULE_NAME[2]=kvm-intel # MAKE[0]='env -u ARCH make -C $kernel_source_dir M=`pwd`' AUTOINSTALL=yes From dlutter at redhat.com Wed Jan 10 22:33:48 2007 From: dlutter at redhat.com (David Lutterkort) Date: Wed, 10 Jan 2007 14:33:48 -0800 Subject: Install nothing people In-Reply-To: References: <45A2BABB.2090902@math.unl.edu> <1168337210.26164.7.camel@gilboa-work-dev.localdomain> <1168360736.2748.6.camel@gilboa-work-dev.localdomain> <16de708d0701091158w154ad747wa86d9da39aa924e3@mail.gmail.com> <1168435072.16494.41.camel@gilboa-work-dev.localdomain> <1168444336.28639.7.camel@gilboa-work-dev.localdomain> <45A50EBE.2080109@gmail.com> Message-ID: <1168468428.21083.16.camel@localhost.localdomain> On Wed, 2007-01-10 at 18:52 +0100, Benny Amorsen wrote: > >>>>> "DB" == David Boles writes: > > DB> Was it just last week that we had the 'install everything' people > DB> here? Now we have the 'install nothing' people. ;-) > > Did anyone call? > > I'm just hoping that there'll be a minimal spin or premade kickstart > file or something. All I need is enough to run yum -- or at least rpm > -i http://..../yum-... (So basic ethernet IPv4 networking and rpm) I am looking at reducing the minimal install (@core + @base) for the Fedora Server spin, but that shouldn't stop anybody from posting their suggestions and experiences reducing the install. David From andrewparker at bigfoot.com Wed Jan 10 22:49:39 2007 From: andrewparker at bigfoot.com (Andrew Parker) Date: Wed, 10 Jan 2007 17:49:39 -0500 Subject: Fedora 7 In-Reply-To: <200701100022.l0A0MCU3009288@laptop13.inf.utfsm.cl> References: <16de708d0701072037g77364ae3wafaafe136ff6d579@mail.gmail.com> <200701100022.l0A0MCU3009288@laptop13.inf.utfsm.cl> Message-ID: <6c3f5e6c0701101449w6d082450qa33fb4e4df1640d4@mail.gmail.com> On 1/9/07, Horst H. von Brand wrote: > > 4) I add it to the db if it isn't already there > > Who checks your entry is correct? What happens if you reported it didn't > work, and it works fine for me, or viceversa? Inevitably some hardware will work for all, some will work for a proportion of users and some won't work at all. If I'm looking at the DB, I'd like to see something like "works for X% of users." You could also add info on whether or not it work OOTB too. Personally, I'm happy trying to get some of my hardware configured, but others I just wouldn't know where to start. From saikat at cs.cornell.edu Wed Jan 10 23:13:58 2007 From: saikat at cs.cornell.edu (Saikat Guha) Date: Wed, 10 Jan 2007 18:13:58 -0500 Subject: firefox from devel and randr In-Reply-To: <45A4BB19.1030808@olen.net> References: <1168421500.26738.13.camel@peecee.hoentjen.eu> <45A4BB19.1030808@olen.net> Message-ID: <1168470838.17891.1.camel@sioux.systems.cs.cornell.edu> On Wed, 2007-01-10 at 11:08 +0100, Ola Thoresen wrote: > I have had multiple pages make Firefox-x86_64 in rawhide explode > lately I believe pango is to blame (epiphany is also crashing on the same pages). The upstream bug is http://bugzilla.gnome.org/show_bug.cgi?id=375110 I believe. -- Saikat -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: signature.asc Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 189 bytes Desc: This is a digitally signed message part URL: From Curtis at GreenKey.net Wed Jan 10 23:12:57 2007 From: Curtis at GreenKey.net (Curtis Doty) Date: Wed, 10 Jan 2007 15:12:57 -0800 (PST) Subject: Install nothing people In-Reply-To: <1168468428.21083.16.camel@localhost.localdomain> References: <45A2BABB.2090902@math.unl.edu> <1168337210.26164.7.camel@gilboa-work-dev.localdomain> <1168360736.2748.6.camel@gilboa-work-dev.localdomain> <16de708d0701091158w154ad747wa86d9da39aa924e3@mail.gmail.com> <1168435072.16494.41.camel@gilboa-work-dev.localdomain> <1168444336.28639.7.camel@gilboa-work-dev.localdomain> <45A50EBE.2080109@gmail.com> <1168468428.21083.16.camel@localhost.localdomain> Message-ID: <20070110231257.A0D5A6F06C@alopias.GreenKey.net> 2:33pm David Lutterkort said: > On Wed, 2007-01-10 at 18:52 +0100, Benny Amorsen wrote: > > >>>>> "DB" == David Boles writes: > > > > DB> Was it just last week that we had the 'install everything' people > > DB> here? Now we have the 'install nothing' people. ;-) > > > > Did anyone call? > > > > I'm just hoping that there'll be a minimal spin or premade kickstart > > file or something. All I need is enough to run yum -- or at least rpm > > -i http://..../yum-... (So basic ethernet IPv4 networking and rpm) > > I am looking at reducing the minimal install (@core + @base) for the > Fedora Server spin, but that shouldn't stop anybody from posting their > suggestions and experiences reducing the install. Here's a good starting point for fc6 kick. %packages - at dial-up - at java I can't remember exactly, but the installed footprint gets significantly smaller. If you can live without the above. Beyond that, it's a matter of style/opinion. Here's just some example hunklets: # irrelevant hardware -ccid -coolkey.i386 -coolkey.x86_64 -bluez-libs -bluez-pin -bluez-utils -irda-utils -pcmciautils # the Xeons in this ProLiant don't know a damn thing about low power -cpuspeed # unwanted services -NetworkManager -gpm.i386 -gpm.x86_64 -nfs-utils -portmap -yp-tools -ypbind # useless things that drag in other deps -firstboot-tui -system-config-network-tui -system-config-securitylevel-tui It goes on and on...and I've successfully removed upon install *all* i386 packages on an x86_64 system without screwing up the rpm verify database. Of course your mileage may vary. Nobody wants to see things like nfs/nis/etc. go away. Just if they aren't desired initially. ../C From tswan at idigx.com Thu Jan 11 01:01:21 2007 From: tswan at idigx.com (Thomas Swan) Date: Wed, 10 Jan 2007 19:01:21 -0600 Subject: FC6 on a HP DC7700 In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <45A58C61.3080206@idigx.com> Gianluca Sforna wrote: > Hi all, > I just put my hands on a shiny HP DC7700, a Core 2 Duo based PC, but I > can't boot the installer because it hangs right after detecting > keyboard and mouse (PS/2) > > Does anyone experienced similar issues? > > googling around I already find some (scary...) info, and tried w/o > luck booting with acpi=off (boot, but it seems like hanging on every > screen, then eventually go on with the next after some minutes!), > noapic and nolapic. > Yes, we have ordered several of these, and Fedora is painfully slow (it runs so much better on a 5 year old laptop). Originally, we thought it might be broken ACPI BIOS implementation and Linux just interacts poorly with it, but we aren't sure. With the v1.06 BIOS update the system will install without disabling ACPI, but it runs about 1/300th the speed it should. One would think with HP's commitment to Linux they wouldn't drop a %#@$!@ like this out on the market. According to a few people in HP's forums, they do not want to hear anything about Linux not running on the DC7700. On FC6 2.16.18-2869: # time ( let X=0; while [ $X -lt 1000 ] ; do let X=$X+1 ; done ) real 0m8.631s user 0m8.385s sys 0m0.203s On FreeBSD 6.2RC2: # time ( let X=0; while [ $X -lt 1000 ] ; do let X=$X+1 ; done ) real 0m0.025s user 0m0.025s sys 0m0.000s I have tried almost every combination of clock= acpi= acpi_os_name="Spoo!" noapictimer nolapic noapic acpi=irq ... that you could imagine with no success in improving the performance. An experimental 2.6.20 (rt) kernel seemed to run about 10 times faster, but it was still to slow to be used. (Screen repaints on login are about 5 seconds) Once, during a reinstall the rescue shell (using x86_64) on the installation CD ran at the same speed as BSD. I have not been able to see reproduce it, ever. I have installed both i386 and x86_64 versions with no real discernible difference in performance. I will assist in anyway I can, if someone wants to help track this down. From a.badger at gmail.com Thu Jan 11 01:35:59 2007 From: a.badger at gmail.com (Toshio Kuratomi) Date: Wed, 10 Jan 2007 17:35:59 -0800 Subject: rawhide report: 20070108 changes In-Reply-To: <200701091129.54823.jkeating@redhat.com> References: <26613.192.54.193.51.1168359829.squirrel@rousalka.dyndns.org> <200701091129.54823.jkeating@redhat.com> Message-ID: <1168479359.4545.24.camel@localhost.localdomain> On Tue, 2007-01-09 at 11:29 -0500, Jesse Keating wrote: > On Tuesday 09 January 2007 11:23, Nicolas Mailhot wrote: > > ftp://ftp.kernel.org/pub/linux/kernel/v2.6/testing/linux-2.6.20-rc4.tar.bz2 > > > > (Just to disprove this argument, you could push it a tad further and > > suggest to distinguish between .tar.bz2, tar.gz & zip source archives in > > rpm versions) > > While there is a tarball there, you'll see we're not using it in our kernel > package. Using the stack of patches has other bonuses, being able to opt out > of some of them, possibly easier to integrate our patches into the mix, etc.. > This is sound reasoning. I haven't seen anyone advocate for changing Dave's workflow in this regard, yet. > So our package really isn't the 2.6.20-rc4 release, it's 2.6.19 plus all the > patches that is leading up to 2.6.20. I think that's a bit of a stretch. If I started with gtk2-2.10.4.tar.gz and applied a patch to make it kernel-2.6.20-rc4, would I have a kernel package or a gtk2 package? Axel has pointed out one benefit of changing from 2.6.(x-1) to 2.6.x internally when we rebase to an rc. What are the problems with this? If the internal version was to change as Axel suggests, then it would definitely make sense for the rpm version to change as well -- and at that point it might as well conform to the Fedora Guidelines. Although I agree that the kernel is special, I'm not yet seeing why there'd be a problem with the kernel following the naming guidelines. If someone can point out where the naming guidelines fail to provide for a properly upgrading EVR, it would help clarify why an exception should be made. -Toshio -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: signature.asc Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 189 bytes Desc: This is a digitally signed message part URL: From pemboa at gmail.com Thu Jan 11 01:46:40 2007 From: pemboa at gmail.com (Arthur Pemberton) Date: Thu, 11 Jan 2007 19:46:40 +1800 Subject: Fedora 7 In-Reply-To: <200701100022.l0A0MCU3009288@laptop13.inf.utfsm.cl> References: <16de708d0701072037g77364ae3wafaafe136ff6d579@mail.gmail.com> <200701100022.l0A0MCU3009288@laptop13.inf.utfsm.cl> Message-ID: <16de708d0701101746t4440d4f3o55c5450cc5957584@mail.gmail.com> On 1/10/07, Horst H. von Brand wrote: [...] > [...] > > > All I'm asking for a Fedora blessed infrastructure to be put in place, > > not for any one person to be responsible for populating it > > This requires manpower (to check for junk, to clean up entries, to > discriminate among conclicting entries, ...). Ask the people at > if this is a trivial job. And printers are > outside the box, so it is /simple/ compared to all possible strange > interactions among in-box pieces. I may be ignorant on the finer details, but between the outputs of lspci, and lsusb, how many dupplicates can their possibly be? While it may be non trivial to maintain linuxprinting.org it is a very useful resource for pre-purchase printer considerations. Google is a great resource, but it only goes so far. I recently had to setup an older sound interface pci card on a fedora box I setup at work. And indiciations were bright that it was linux compatible and fully alsa supported. I did a locate and found the module already in the fedora kernel tree , i thought great. 2-3 hours later I finally found out that the card needed firmware, not available in extras or core, and just barely mentioned on the driver's author's page. It would have been nice to know that the kernel module is Fedora compatible, but the firmware (to make the device work) is not. > > The benefit of this being that next time I'm buying hardware, I can > > scurry over to the db and check what the best options are. > > For higher-end stuff the data is usually at hand, for el-cheapo not (and > better stay away from that in any case). I'm not sure what more one needs than the output of lspci, and lsusb, and dmesg...of course I could be missing something here. -- Fedora Core 6 and proud From besfahbo at redhat.com Thu Jan 11 01:53:32 2007 From: besfahbo at redhat.com (Behdad Esfahbod) Date: Wed, 10 Jan 2007 20:53:32 -0500 Subject: rawhide report: 20070110 changes In-Reply-To: <1168450481.5205.45.camel@kloczek01.pracownicy.zie> References: <200701101100.l0AB08Yl011093@hs20-bc2-6.build.redhat.com> <1168450481.5205.45.camel@kloczek01.pracownicy.zie> Message-ID: <1168480412.10948.5.camel@home> On Wed, 2007-01-10 at 18:34 +0100, Tomasz K?oczko wrote: > Dnia 10-01-2007, ?ro o godzinie 06:00 -0500, buildsys at redhat.com > napisa?(a): > > gtk2-2.10.7-2.fc7 > > ----------------- > > * Tue Jan 09 2007 Behdad Esfahbod - 2.10.7-2 > > - Configure with --with-included-loaders=png. Saves a page per > > process > > What does it change ? Is it causes static linking pixbufloader-png.so > into libgdk_pixbuf ? Yes. Every shared object needs at least one private page for .data. > If yes probably if found some kind of bug because > in files list sill is included > %{_libdir}/gtk-2.0/2.10.0/loaders/libpixbufloader-png.so DSO. Thanks for the catch. Seems like the build system in Gtk+ doesn't have all the bits needed to have included and dynamic modules at the same time. I'm fixing it right now. I made a similar change in Pango, to include the basic-fc module, and that seems to be working, other than processes running at the time of update seem to err, but that's transitional. > kloczek > -- behdad http://behdad.org/ -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: signature.asc Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 189 bytes Desc: This is a digitally signed message part URL: From pemboa at gmail.com Thu Jan 11 01:58:00 2007 From: pemboa at gmail.com (Arthur Pemberton) Date: Thu, 11 Jan 2007 19:58:00 +1800 Subject: Install nothing people In-Reply-To: References: <45A2BABB.2090902@math.unl.edu> <1168337210.26164.7.camel@gilboa-work-dev.localdomain> <1168360736.2748.6.camel@gilboa-work-dev.localdomain> <16de708d0701091158w154ad747wa86d9da39aa924e3@mail.gmail.com> <1168435072.16494.41.camel@gilboa-work-dev.localdomain> <1168444336.28639.7.camel@gilboa-work-dev.localdomain> <45A50EBE.2080109@gmail.com> Message-ID: <16de708d0701101758ld2921c3s6a17864aa85da058@mail.gmail.com> On 10 Jan 2007 18:52:00 +0100, Benny Amorsen wrote: > >>>>> "DB" == David Boles writes: > > DB> Was it just last week that we had the 'install everything' people > DB> here? Now we have the 'install nothing' people. ;-) > > Did anyone call? > > I'm just hoping that there'll be a minimal spin or premade kickstart > file or something. All I need is enough to run yum -- or at least rpm > -i http://..../yum-... (So basic ethernet IPv4 networking and rpm) > > > /Benny > I don't mean to hijack this thread, but along the line of a minimum install, considering that after installing FC, generally, near half the packages need updating due to feature and devel freezes, how about a bare minimum spin....just enough to get to the internet, hit fedorasolved.org (via browser) to check for important messages/notices. Then do a yum/piruit update/install. Purely from my gut feeling, lacking any scienntific checking, it seems that one may actually use less bandwidth to get a complete (customized) desktop or solution. Call it Fedora Base -- Fedora Core 6 and proud From lamont at gurulabs.com Wed Jan 10 16:30:37 2007 From: lamont at gurulabs.com (Lamont Peterson) Date: Wed, 10 Jan 2007 09:30:37 -0700 Subject: F7 KDE spin In-Reply-To: <1168432885.16494.31.camel@gilboa-work-dev.localdomain> References: <45A2BABB.2090902@math.unl.edu> <13dbfe4f0701091106w1553b24fv28b7fcb5f5bb64ca@mail.gmail.com> <1168432885.16494.31.camel@gilboa-work-dev.localdomain> Message-ID: <200701100930.42922.lamont@gurulabs.com> On Wednesday 10 January 2007 05:41am, Gilboa Davara wrote: > On Tue, 2007-01-09 at 20:06 +0100, Chitlesh GOORAH wrote: > > On 1/9/07, Gilboa Davara wrote: > > > Asking them to download 100s of MB during the installation is a > > > mistake. > > > > Then they will have to download the 100s of MB through downloads! > > In the end, it is the same thing. > > -Far- from being the same thing. > A. Some people get/buy the FC ISO and never use it on-line. Heck, I've > worked in places that (for security reasons) never Internet connection. > What-you-have-on-the-ISO-is-what-you-get. > B. A single ISO can be duplicated over and over again. I can't share a > yum-cache with my friend. Yes you can, just copy /var/cache/yum/ to a USB keychain drive (or SD card, or ...) or burn it to a disc. However, because the cache will change almost daily, this could get tedious. Personally, I have local mirrors on my home file server of the updates repos for each release I have running. Every 6 hours, a cron job runs a script which syncs me up and then runs createrepo on my copy (that way, it always works regardless of the sync status of the mirror I'm pulling from). My machines all use it. I've also created a "mirrorlist" script on a web server (PHP) for myself that will give me just my local mirror when within my network, and get the current mirrorlist to pass back when outside of my network. I then point my notebooks' updates repo config to that mirrorlist. The next step is to extend this to also work with the local mirror on the network at my office when I'm there. I haven't tried to do installs with updates, yet, but I'm looking forward to doing it. I expect that I will always use my local mirror. > C. Single-file FTP/HTTP/BT downloads are faster and more reliable then > yum. BT handles notoriously bad TCP connections much better then > FTP/HTTP (...and as a result, yum) Yes. Still, I run yum simply because it's easier. Local mirrors also help. [snip] -- Lamont Peterson Senior Instructor Guru Labs, L.C. [ http://www.GuruLabs.com/ ] NOTE: All messages from this email address should be digitally signed with my 0xDC0DD409 GPG key. It is available on the pgp.mit.edu keyserver as well as other keyservers that sync with MIT's. -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 189 bytes Desc: not available URL: From lamont at gurulabs.com Wed Jan 10 16:46:46 2007 From: lamont at gurulabs.com (Lamont Peterson) Date: Wed, 10 Jan 2007 09:46:46 -0700 Subject: F7 KDE spin In-Reply-To: <1168427993.16494.19.camel@gilboa-work-dev.localdomain> References: <45A2BABB.2090902@math.unl.edu> <200701092108.25370.dorin.lazar.liste@gmail.com> <1168427993.16494.19.camel@gilboa-work-dev.localdomain> Message-ID: <200701100946.46909.lamont@gurulabs.com> On Wednesday 10 January 2007 04:19am, Gilboa Davara wrote: > On Tue, 2007-01-09 at 21:08 +0200, Dorin Lazar wrote: > > Since that is what the default is, that is what they use. > > I object to you line of thinking. (Start by the "they") > People who use Linux are usually people that could use another OS that > came with their machine by default (Windows) and choose otherwise. > More-ever, the people that will -choose- the Fedora-KDE spin, already > decided to ignore the default (Desktop spin) - so why are you assuming > that "they" are a mindless herd that will use the default - no matter > what the default is. For the most part, I think that you are right. However, I think that many in this category still start out with the "default" installed app for a given task. Sure, they're going to explore other available choices, but in most cases, human beings stick with what is more familiar/comfortable to them. If they get too busy early on to take the time to look at other apps, then they may (often do?) end up being comfortable enough with the default (whatever that is) to just go with it or to actually prefer it, even if they would really be better served by an alternate. > > I'm on Fedora, I never used GNOME because I didn't like it (but I tried > > it everytime). And I am quite happy with what KDE has to offer. Make > > kontact the default, and you'll have a plethora of kontact users. > > No objections here. > Heck, don't even install it by default. > I just want the Evo dep-chain on the ISO - nothing else. I don't want it on the ISO for me to use. Although I'll probably not install Evolution, if I do I would want the updated release and so would be downloading it anyway. But, I do want Evolution on the KDE spin for all the other people I would had a disc(s) to. I want them to have the choice. However, if it's not there, they can always download it just like I would (or I could give them the packages, etc.). I also think that the point several have put forward that there are a percentage of users (small, yes, but they are there) who will not have access to the repos and will, therefore, only have whatever is on the disc(s). For those people, having the choices would be not just a good thing, but perhaps a necessity. However, since it's (going to be) not that had to create additional spins, why not let those users take the KDE spin and add to it? Or how about if we (i.e. the Fedora Community) also create an "Everything" spin? Every single package in the distribution. It would be a lot of CDs and could be more than one single-layer DVD. We should probably also create a dual-layer DVD ISO for such a massive spin. I think that would be a good option to offer for many people's needs. It could also be used to let them create their own custom spins from the whole Fedora catalog of available packages. -- Lamont Peterson Senior Instructor Guru Labs, L.C. [ http://www.GuruLabs.com/ ] NOTE: All messages from this email address should be digitally signed with my 0xDC0DD409 GPG key. It is available on the pgp.mit.edu keyserver as well as other keyservers that sync with MIT's. -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 189 bytes Desc: not available URL: From jwilliam at xmission.com Thu Jan 11 03:06:41 2007 From: jwilliam at xmission.com (Jerry Williams) Date: Wed, 10 Jan 2007 20:06:41 -0700 Subject: Fedora 7 vs 6 installation Message-ID: <002801c7352d$84cebc10$020aa8c0@a18> I have been installing Fedora Core 6 on a few machines and I would like to suggest some changes. I should have been more involved with 6 and then maybe it would have been better. So I am trying to get involved with 7 in the hopes that it will happen. I think my biggest complaint about the 6 install is the time it takes to do the package dependency check and that you have to click okay to start the install. I would like to see maybe a check box to fix this. That says: continue with install if everything it okay. So you could check the box and walk away. The other thing that kind of bugs me is the resolution that is used for the display. The default seems way high. I am thinking that it would be better to start with 800x600 or 1024x768 and then let the user bump it up it they would like. I have had a few systems that it was all I could do to get into it to change the resolution. Other things that would be nice. Be able to enter domain suffix search list at same time entering name servers. I would prefer to select selinux and firewall config up front. And enter ntp info with the name servers. Far out wish list: Be able to do a headless install. Put DVD in drive and a floppy with config or usb flash drive and have system boot and look for files on floppy or usb flash drive for the config or maybe use some network protocol to get the config information it needs. So it would lay out the drive and set network and time config and root password and maybe second account and do a basic install that would allow you to remotely connect and add other packages. I have also thought about doing more of a 2 pass install. With 6 you pretty much install everything then reboot and do a few final things. What happens if you make the first pass install very minimal and then have the second pass do most of the work like updating packages. Maybe you just get to chose KDE or Gnome and on the first pass. I would also be nice to be able to clone a machine, maybe not totally, but at least the packages. Like run some command to create a file and then be able to provide that file to another system to be installed. And maybe some of these things exist now and I just need to learn about them. Thanks for your time! Jerry From jeff at ocjtech.us Thu Jan 11 03:27:14 2007 From: jeff at ocjtech.us (Jeffrey C. Ollie) Date: Wed, 10 Jan 2007 21:27:14 -0600 Subject: Fedora 7 vs 6 installation In-Reply-To: <002801c7352d$84cebc10$020aa8c0@a18> References: <002801c7352d$84cebc10$020aa8c0@a18> Message-ID: <1168486035.3347.8.camel@lt21223.campus.dmacc.edu> On Wed, 2007-01-10 at 20:06 -0700, Jerry Williams wrote: > > Be able to do a headless install. > Put DVD in drive and a floppy with config or usb flash drive and have system > boot and look for files on floppy or usb flash drive for the config or maybe > use some network protocol to get the config information it needs. > So it would lay out the drive and set network and time config and root > password and maybe second account and do a basic install that would allow > you to remotely connect and add other packages. Kickstart has existed for a long time, since at least Red Hat Linux 7. http://fedora.redhat.com/docs/fedora-install-guide-en/fc5/sn-automating-installation.html > I would also be nice to be able to clone a machine, maybe not totally, but > at least the packages. Like run some command to create a file and then be > able to provide that file to another system to be installed. The installer leaves a file called "anaconda-ks.cfg" in root's home directory. With a few minor modifications you can feed that config file to kickstart > And maybe some of these things exist now and I just need to learn about > them. Yep. -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: signature.asc Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 189 bytes Desc: This is a digitally signed message part URL: From yanmin_zhang at linux.intel.com Thu Jan 11 03:29:29 2007 From: yanmin_zhang at linux.intel.com (Zhang, Yanmin) Date: Thu, 11 Jan 2007 11:29:29 +0800 Subject: [Fedora-ia64-list] Re: anaconda-runtime error In-Reply-To: <200701092228.17083.jkeating@redhat.com> References: <1168319262.15989.211.camel@ymzhang> <1168367906.4632.3.camel@aglarond.local> <1168398353.15989.218.camel@ymzhang> <200701092228.17083.jkeating@redhat.com> Message-ID: <1168486169.15989.226.camel@ymzhang> On Tue, 2007-01-09 at 22:28 -0500, Jesse Keating wrote: > On Tuesday 09 January 2007 22:05, Zhang, Yanmin wrote: > > > being able to get a dhcp lease) > > > > When will anaconda rpm be rebuilt? I buildup DVD image from the latest > > development fedora tree and ran into lots of issues. > > By walkaround, I bypassed many issues (couldn't find cd/hard disk/ip > > address) and anaconda reported dm.c:1565 error when installing. > > > > I suspect anaconda didn't mount proc after chrooting to stage2 root. > > New anaconda will be available in tonight's rawhide spin. Should fix many of > the issues we're seeing. Jesse, I tried the latest anaconda-11.2.0.8-1 to rebuildup dvd image. Many issues (CD/hard/network didn't work) disappeared, but anaconda aborted after I inputed NFS inatallation server. It reported libnash.so.6.0.6 was missing. cann't open share dobject file: No such file or directory. I checked stage2.img and couldn't find libnash.so under usr/lib. I will add info to #219449. Yanmin From jkeating at redhat.com Thu Jan 11 03:34:59 2007 From: jkeating at redhat.com (Jesse Keating) Date: Wed, 10 Jan 2007 22:34:59 -0500 Subject: [Fedora-ia64-list] Re: anaconda-runtime error In-Reply-To: <1168486169.15989.226.camel@ymzhang> References: <1168319262.15989.211.camel@ymzhang> <200701092228.17083.jkeating@redhat.com> <1168486169.15989.226.camel@ymzhang> Message-ID: <200701102235.09492.jkeating@redhat.com> On Wednesday 10 January 2007 22:29, Zhang, Yanmin wrote: > Jesse, > > I tried the latest anaconda-11.2.0.8-1 to rebuildup dvd image. > Many issues (CD/hard/network didn't work) disappeared, but > anaconda aborted after I inputed NFS inatallation server. It reported > libnash.so.6.0.6 was missing. > > ?cann't open share dobject file: No such file or directory. > > I checked stage2.img and couldn't find libnash.so under usr/lib. > > I will add info to #219449. That should be fixed with tonight's rawhide (: Jeremy spent some time tonight getting anaconda to be able to actually partition, install packages, reboot. Also, the glibc doublefree is fixed too thanks to pyparted. -- Jesse Keating Release Engineer: Fedora -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 189 bytes Desc: not available URL: From jwilliam at xmission.com Thu Jan 11 04:19:50 2007 From: jwilliam at xmission.com (Jerry Williams) Date: Wed, 10 Jan 2007 21:19:50 -0700 Subject: Fedora 7 vs 6 installation In-Reply-To: <1168486035.3347.8.camel@lt21223.campus.dmacc.edu> References: <002801c7352d$84cebc10$020aa8c0@a18> <1168486035.3347.8.camel@lt21223.campus.dmacc.edu> Message-ID: <003801c73537$bce90650$020aa8c0@a18> > -----Original Message----- > From: fedora-devel-list-bounces at redhat.com [mailto:fedora-devel-list- > bounces at redhat.com] On Behalf Of Jeffrey C. Ollie > Sent: Wednesday, January 10, 2007 8:27 PM > To: Development discussions related to Fedora Core > Subject: Re: Fedora 7 vs 6 installation > > On Wed, 2007-01-10 at 20:06 -0700, Jerry Williams wrote: > > > > Be able to do a headless install. > > Put DVD in drive and a floppy with config or usb flash drive and have > system > > boot and look for files on floppy or usb flash drive for the config or > maybe > > use some network protocol to get the config information it needs. > > So it would lay out the drive and set network and time config and root > > password and maybe second account and do a basic install that would > allow > > you to remotely connect and add other packages. > > Kickstart has existed for a long time, since at least Red Hat Linux 7. > > http://fedora.redhat.com/docs/fedora-install-guide-en/fc5/sn-automating- > installation.html Yes, I have known about kickstart, any maybe I just need to learn more about it and work with it some more. But it seems like I do an install and then I add packages that I missed or someone else does and I also remove packages. Like I add postfix and the switch mail program and then switch to postfix and remove sendmail. Haven't figure out how/if you can just install postfix as your mail server with the GUI. So that is why I said what I did. Kickstart doesn't to go far enough for me. It would be nice if the GUI came up and checked all of the packages that are on the system and network and disk settings and then you could tweek it some if you wanted and be done. And maybe it is just as simple as doing a rpm -qa and appending that to the end of the config file. I just loaded it to give it another try and it is much better, but still not there. It can't deal with my network configuration and doesn't go into enough detail on the packages. I think it really needs to be able to display individual packages. So maybe I need to submit a bug report: Traceback (most recent call last): File "/usr/share/system-config-kickstart/network.py", line 180, in showEditNetworkDialog ip1, ip2, ip3, ip4 = string.split(ip, ".") ValueError: too many values to unpack Thanks for your comment. > > > I would also be nice to be able to clone a machine, maybe not totally, > but > > at least the packages. Like run some command to create a file and then > be > > able to provide that file to another system to be installed. > > The installer leaves a file called "anaconda-ks.cfg" in root's home > directory. With a few minor modifications you can feed that config file > to kickstart > > > And maybe some of these things exist now and I just need to learn about > > them. > > Yep. From skvidal at linux.duke.edu Thu Jan 11 04:45:21 2007 From: skvidal at linux.duke.edu (seth vidal) Date: Wed, 10 Jan 2007 23:45:21 -0500 Subject: Fedora 7 vs 6 installation In-Reply-To: <003801c73537$bce90650$020aa8c0@a18> References: <002801c7352d$84cebc10$020aa8c0@a18> <1168486035.3347.8.camel@lt21223.campus.dmacc.edu> <003801c73537$bce90650$020aa8c0@a18> Message-ID: <1168490721.5262.1.camel@cutter> On Wed, 2007-01-10 at 21:19 -0700, Jerry Williams wrote: > Yes, I have known about kickstart, any maybe I just need to learn more about > it and work with it some more. > But it seems like I do an install and then I add packages that I missed or > someone else does and I also remove packages. > > Like I add postfix and the switch mail program and then switch to postfix > and remove sendmail. Haven't figure out how/if you can just install postfix > as your mail server with the GUI. > %post in kickstart allows you to do pretty much whatever you want. Our kickstarts are bare minimum then we add and configure all the packages for the system using yum + normal shell commands in %post If you think kickstart isn't flexible enough to do what you want; then chances are good you're not thinking hard enough. -sv From zaitcev at redhat.com Thu Jan 11 04:45:52 2007 From: zaitcev at redhat.com (Pete Zaitcev) Date: Wed, 10 Jan 2007 20:45:52 -0800 Subject: proposal: mailing list reorganization In-Reply-To: <45A52F85.5020408@leemhuis.info> References: <45A52F85.5020408@leemhuis.info> Message-ID: <20070110204552.0e7e6327.zaitcev@redhat.com> On Wed, 10 Jan 2007 19:25:09 +0100, Thorsten Leemhuis wrote: > The other goal is to get rid of those lists: Might as well kill fedora-patch-list too. It saw no uptake at all. > * fedora-devel -- For devel discussion. The "old" fedora-devel-list > became quite noise and we want to avoid that with the new list. Thus the > plan is to restrict it to well known open-source or project contributors > and make it moderated for the rest of the world. Support questions > regarding devel stuff are off topic here. I question the assertion behind this. Fedora-devel-list is rather quiet, considering the size of the project. > * fedora-devel-discuss -- We need an open devel list for users as > fedora-devel is restricted. Support questions regarding devel stuff are > on topic here, too. Very dubious idea, but ok. My main problem with this proposal is that you're trying to recreate the current system of fedora-maintainers and fedora-devel-list with no change at all. I've read the explanations in the renaming section, but they weren't persuasive. Notice that Ubuntu were different before, but now they copied our current setup of fedora-maintainers and fedora-devel-list almost exactly, only they named them differently. > === fedora-cvs-commits === > > All commits should go here, but separated into topics (web, docs, F7, > devel, ...), similar how we do it for how we do for > fedora-packaging-announce Detail: how is it going to be separated? I'd hate to see more square brackets in subjects. > === fedora-maintainers to fedora-devel === > > Rename to fedora-devel. Free to post for all fedora contributors (being > in ambassadors, mentors, packagers, ...). Moderated for the rest of the > world (we need a whole team of moderators for it). [...] You know how easy it is to forge e-mail identities, don't you? > === Mailman guidelines === > * the reply-to should point to the list (reply_goes_to_list = this list) I hate that, but bow to the will of the majority. I override it manually when I compose replies anyway. It's just an annoyance. > * no tagging (subject_prefix = ) Thanks for that at least. -- Pete From notting at redhat.com Thu Jan 11 04:47:39 2007 From: notting at redhat.com (Bill Nottingham) Date: Wed, 10 Jan 2007 23:47:39 -0500 Subject: proposal: mailing list reorganization In-Reply-To: <1168467472.4632.61.camel@aglarond.local> References: <45A52F85.5020408@leemhuis.info> <1168467152.3113.255.camel@erato.phig.org> <1168467472.4632.61.camel@aglarond.local> Message-ID: <20070111044739.GA2187@nostromo.devel.redhat.com> Jeremy Katz (katzj at redhat.com) said: > With the topics support in mailman and using them, it becomes "subscribe > to fedora-cvs-commits and set your topic preference to Docs". And then > we ensure that docs commits are the ones with said topic set. So > there's no need for filtering except at subscription time. However, I'm not sure I'd want to add that extra hurdle - right now, you can do all the subscribing without ever visiting the web site - with this, you *have* to go into the mailman interface. Devils advocate - if we really want this, why wouldn't wiki changes fall into this list, aside from the infrastructure not really allowing for it? If nothing else, walling off the fire hose of package commits from other commits would be nice. Bill From notting at redhat.com Thu Jan 11 04:49:30 2007 From: notting at redhat.com (Bill Nottingham) Date: Wed, 10 Jan 2007 23:49:30 -0500 Subject: proposal: mailing list reorganization In-Reply-To: <20070110204552.0e7e6327.zaitcev@redhat.com> References: <45A52F85.5020408@leemhuis.info> <20070110204552.0e7e6327.zaitcev@redhat.com> Message-ID: <20070111044930.GB2187@nostromo.devel.redhat.com> Pete Zaitcev (zaitcev at redhat.com) said: > > * fedora-devel -- For devel discussion. The "old" fedora-devel-list > > became quite noise and we want to avoid that with the new list. Thus the > > plan is to restrict it to well known open-source or project contributors > > and make it moderated for the rest of the world. Support questions > > regarding devel stuff are off topic here. > > I question the assertion behind this. Fedora-devel-list is rather > quiet, considering the size of the project. > > > * fedora-devel-discuss -- We need an open devel list for users as > > fedora-devel is restricted. Support questions regarding devel stuff are > > on topic here, too. > > Very dubious idea, but ok. > > My main problem with this proposal is that you're trying to recreate > the current system of fedora-maintainers and fedora-devel-list > with no change at all. This is my concern as well - I'd rather just repurpose as: -maintainers: Announcements (freezes, policy changes, outages, etc.), and related followup discussion. -devel: devel discussions. Bill From gianluca.cecchi at gmail.com Thu Jan 11 05:54:11 2007 From: gianluca.cecchi at gmail.com (Gianluca Cecchi) Date: Thu, 11 Jan 2007 06:54:11 +0100 Subject: [OT] kvm kernel module in fc6? Message-ID: <561c252c0701102154ua1d1a79y64a602796856abc3@mail.gmail.com> On Wed, 10 Jan 2007 17:31:27 -0500 Bill Rugolsky Jr. wrote: > The attached DKMS module RPM spec file WorksForMe. I'm far from being an rpm build internals specialist... but actually, taking Jeremy's src.rpm and the relative spec file I had only to: - adapt spec file for kvm-10 that was released, - change the configure line eliminating the "--with-patched-kernel" part (as said in kvm docs) - add in %files section the 3 kernel modules to be built (in a raw way...) - build the rpm - install it against my standard 2869 based fc6. And in less that one hour I was able to have a qemu/kvm wxp sp2 virtual machine running very smoothly being able to connect transparently to the internet like my physical one: - seconds to create a 9Gb disk - 5 minutes for the first part of installation/disk partition (from hd iso image) - 9 minutes for the second part with all typical parameters no customizations - 20 minutes to apply sp2 ita (from hd iso) ! At this moment with my system (last try beginning of december) I was not able to reach the same results after days of work and search with xen: only result was a black screen after reboot after initial setup.... Eventually I will try again now with latest packages released for fc6. But the easiness of kvm apply astonished me! 1 vote more for kvm extension to fc6 user base! Gianluca From jdogalt at yahoo.com Thu Jan 11 06:59:40 2007 From: jdogalt at yahoo.com (Jane Dogalt) Date: Wed, 10 Jan 2007 22:59:40 -0800 (PST) Subject: distribution customization In-Reply-To: <20070110192603.GA27023@nostromo.devel.redhat.com> Message-ID: <575346.89544.qm@web56908.mail.re3.yahoo.com> --- Bill Nottingham wrote: > One of the features we're working on for Fedora Core 7 is a > framework to customize the distribution [1] without necessarily > modifying the package set; this is needed as we're intending > to target multiple 'spins' [2] of Fedora. FYI here is the current outline (not much different from what I've said on livecd-list for ages) for a project I am working on. Preface: its still deep in proof of concept stages- ------------------------------------------ viros/vsys system image generator outline ------------------------------------------ (not required to run as root) 1) generate (and maybe regress test) a custom livecd/derivative-distro vsys generate liveiso --strain=fz7 customstrain.iso (takes a few hours, progress meter, non-interactive, maybe eventually a gui to manage flags/options) 2) test/play your new system image vsys virtualize customstrain.iso (purely a wrapper to abstract away qemu options) What this is doing is create a 'strain' (aka 'spin'/'recipe'/'system configuration') of a livecd. In this case it pulls the recipe/config from /usr/share/viros/strains/fz7.vml, which is an xml config file describing exactly what needs to be known to create this particular spin/strain/livecd. Basically the input for how to do a fedora core 6 automated install (grub boot line, kickstart, arbitrary extra data/script payload, etc...). Then, to create a new, modified 'strain', you either copy and modify the vml file, or use builtin 'features/traits', i.e. vsys generate liveiso --strain=fz7 \ --addfeature adduser:user=sysuser,password=notobvious --addfeature gdmautologin:user=sysuser --addfeature adddefaultstartpage:user=sysuser,page="http://example.com" The features/traits would be a standard format (rpm/tgz/makeself/whatever) and live in /usr/share/viros/traits/ To reiterate, one benefit of my design using qemu instead of DavidZ's root based pilgrim, is that all install actions (including hundreds of %pre/%post scripts) are run in a user protected environment. Another benefit, is that this can abstract away the distribution. I.e. I fully intend to support debian/ubunto/centos (and later PPC versions of stuff using qemu-ppc). I.e. I hope to have default strain configurations that can say generate the latest version of knoppix with all debian updates applied. Also, I have it working so that everything is always done to a hidden vnc window, so it can just churn away on some headless server generating images, and even doing automated regression tests on those images by booting them under qemu. One final aspect is that I also have designed it with modular backends in mind. I.e. 'generate a livecd using the unionfs method', 'generate a livecd using the devicemapper snapshot method', 'generate a livecd using the kadischi bindmounting method', 'generate a livecd using the jdogalt rebootless installable method', 'generate a tgz that can be remotely push installed to server you have root ssh access'. Anyway, as I've been saying for years, I hope to get it demoable any day now, and that other people find it as useful as I imagine it to be :) Maybe DavidZ has some better plans for pilgrim, perhaps integrating with this virtmanager I haven't played with yet... -dmc/jdog ____________________________________________________________________________________ Have a burning question? Go to www.Answers.yahoo.com and get answers from real people who know. From jwilliam at xmission.com Thu Jan 11 07:12:52 2007 From: jwilliam at xmission.com (Jerry Williams) Date: Thu, 11 Jan 2007 00:12:52 -0700 Subject: Fedora 7 vs 6 installation In-Reply-To: <1168490721.5262.1.camel@cutter> References: <002801c7352d$84cebc10$020aa8c0@a18><1168486035.3347.8.camel@lt21223.campus.dmacc.edu><003801c73537$bce90650$020aa8c0@a18> <1168490721.5262.1.camel@cutter> Message-ID: <004201c7354f$e89f9710$020aa8c0@a18> > -----Original Message----- > From: fedora-devel-list-bounces at redhat.com [mailto:fedora-devel-list- > bounces at redhat.com] On Behalf Of seth vidal > Sent: Wednesday, January 10, 2007 9:45 PM > To: Development discussions related to Fedora Core > Subject: RE: Fedora 7 vs 6 installation > > On Wed, 2007-01-10 at 21:19 -0700, Jerry Williams wrote: > > > Yes, I have known about kickstart, any maybe I just need to learn more > about > > it and work with it some more. > > But it seems like I do an install and then I add packages that I missed > or > > someone else does and I also remove packages. > > > > Like I add postfix and the switch mail program and then switch to > postfix > > and remove sendmail. Haven't figure out how/if you can just install > postfix > > as your mail server with the GUI. > > > > %post in kickstart allows you to do pretty much whatever you want. > > Our kickstarts are bare minimum then we add and configure all the > packages for the system using yum + normal shell commands in %post > > If you think kickstart isn't flexible enough to do what you want; then > chances are good you're not thinking hard enough. > > -sv Thanks for the comment. I will probably try to use %post to accomplish what I need. I wouldn't say that kickstart isn't flexible enough, but the GUI doesn't let you pick individual packages or do a rpm -qa and populate a list of packages. And I really don't want to have to think hard. I know that I could make it work and would probably take the same route that you have and do a minimal install and then use %post and just take the output from rpm -qa and put yum install on the front of each package and it won't install anything that is already installed and then I could compare a system with it and see what packages I wanted removed and add rpm -e commands for those. It kind or reminds me of using yum when a dependency is broken. It would be nice to have an option to just say update the things that are all there and skip what you can't resolve. Instead I have taken the list from yum and made a wrapper script to give yum one package at a time to update and just let the ones fail that are going to anyway. Most SA's I know write programs so that they don't have to do tedious things like you are talking about. Kickstart has made some big improvements since it was started and once you have the configuration file it is great. But it could still use some work on the GUI front end. I would like an option next to file or under file that says grab current running system configuration. It's not like the code isn't out there. When you do an install it goes and looks at the LVM and disk partition information, why can't Kickstart? It could also do the dependency checking like yum does before it saves the configuration file. Or maybe it could just do that on the fly so that if you checked that you wanted a package it would check the boxes for the things that it depends on. I seem to remember an older system that would let you check look at everything and it would let you pick individual packages. It would be nice if Kickstart would let you expand each selection/group and see what was in it and pick what you wanted and uncheck what you don't want. Maybe Kickstart could be improved. It seems to me that is what Fedora 7 is about, not running things you don't need and starting up faster. A better Kickstart GUI could go a long way to making that happen. Also if the install let you be more selective then you could not install things you don't want/need and not have to wait for them to start. Or maybe like you said have the Fedora install be really simple minimum packages and then have a nice program that lets you add/remove packages even remotely and use current packages that don't need to be updated again. Only problem I see is for the nice program you probably need at least X Windows or KDE or Gnome. If kickstart was better I probably would only do a GUI install once and just use kickstart after that. From mk at crc.dk Thu Jan 11 07:42:26 2007 From: mk at crc.dk (Mogens Kjaer) Date: Thu, 11 Jan 2007 08:42:26 +0100 Subject: FC6 on a HP DC7700 In-Reply-To: <45A58C61.3080206@idigx.com> References: <45A58C61.3080206@idigx.com> Message-ID: <45A5EA62.5080901@crc.dk> Thomas Swan wrote: ... > On FC6 2.16.18-2869: > # time ( let X=0; while [ $X -lt 1000 ] ; do let X=$X+1 ; done ) > real 0m8.631s > user 0m8.385s > sys 0m0.203s This is not my experience: On FC6 x86_64 2.6.18-1.2869.fc6: real 0m0.014s user 0m0.013s sys 0m0.000s Note, this is the 64 bit FC6, acpi=off. It won't boot without acpi=off, BIOS is v1.06 Mogens -- Mogens Kjaer, Carlsberg A/S, Computer Department Gamle Carlsberg Vej 10, DK-2500 Valby, Denmark Phone: +45 33 27 53 25, Fax: +45 33 27 47 08 Email: mk at crc.dk Homepage: http://www.crc.dk From saikat at cs.cornell.edu Thu Jan 11 07:45:38 2007 From: saikat at cs.cornell.edu (Saikat Guha) Date: Thu, 11 Jan 2007 02:45:38 -0500 Subject: rawhide report: 20070110 changes In-Reply-To: <200701101100.l0AB08Yl011093@hs20-bc2-6.build.redhat.com> References: <200701101100.l0AB08Yl011093@hs20-bc2-6.build.redhat.com> Message-ID: <1168501538.3490.4.camel@sioux.systems.cs.cornell.edu> On Wed, 2007-01-10 at 06:00 -0500, buildsys at redhat.com wrote: > pango-1.15.3-2.fc7 > ------------------ > * Tue Jan 09 2007 Behdad Esfahbod - 1.15.3-2 > - Update sources [...] > vte-0.15.1-1.fc7 > ---------------- > * Tue Jan 09 2007 Behdad Esfahbod 0.15.1-1 > - Update to 0.15.1 After this update, gnome-terminal crashes on startup. http://bugzilla.gnome.org/show_bug.cgi?id=395303 Anyone else encounter this problem? Can't seem to cleanly downgrade to FC6 versions of either to narrow down the cause. -- Saikat -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: signature.asc Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 189 bytes Desc: This is a digitally signed message part URL: From al at authentidate.de Thu Jan 11 07:56:33 2007 From: al at authentidate.de (Andreas Laumann) Date: Thu, 11 Jan 2007 08:56:33 +0100 Subject: rawhide report: 20070110 changes In-Reply-To: <1168501538.3490.4.camel@sioux.systems.cs.cornell.edu> References: <200701101100.l0AB08Yl011093@hs20-bc2-6.build.redhat.com> <1168501538.3490.4.camel@sioux.systems.cs.cornell.edu> Message-ID: <1168502194.6997.5.camel@justine.inexnet.de> Am Donnerstag, den 11.01.2007, 02:45 -0500 schrieb Saikat Guha: > On Wed, 2007-01-10 at 06:00 -0500, buildsys at redhat.com wrote: > > pango-1.15.3-2.fc7 > > ------------------ > > * Tue Jan 09 2007 Behdad Esfahbod - 1.15.3-2 > > - Update sources > [...] > > vte-0.15.1-1.fc7 > > ---------------- > > * Tue Jan 09 2007 Behdad Esfahbod 0.15.1-1 > > - Update to 0.15.1 > > After this update, gnome-terminal crashes on startup. > > http://bugzilla.gnome.org/show_bug.cgi?id=395303 > > Anyone else encounter this problem? Can't seem to cleanly downgrade to > FC6 versions of either to narrow down the cause. I had to go back to pango-1.15.2-1.fc7 AND vte-0.15.0-2.fc7 to bring g-t back to life. > > -- > fedora-devel-list mailing list > fedora-devel-list at redhat.com > https://www.redhat.com/mailman/listinfo/fedora-devel-list -- It's odd, and a little unsettling, to reflect upon the fact that English is the only major language in which "I" is capitalized; in many other languages "You" is capitalized and the "i" is lower case. - Sydney J. Harris- From saikat at cs.cornell.edu Thu Jan 11 08:03:28 2007 From: saikat at cs.cornell.edu (Saikat Guha) Date: Thu, 11 Jan 2007 03:03:28 -0500 Subject: rawhide report: 20070110 changes In-Reply-To: <1168502194.6997.5.camel@justine.inexnet.de> References: <200701101100.l0AB08Yl011093@hs20-bc2-6.build.redhat.com> <1168501538.3490.4.camel@sioux.systems.cs.cornell.edu> <1168502194.6997.5.camel@justine.inexnet.de> Message-ID: <1168502608.3490.7.camel@sioux.systems.cs.cornell.edu> On Thu, 2007-01-11 at 08:56 +0100, Andreas Laumann wrote: > Am Donnerstag, den 11.01.2007, 02:45 -0500 schrieb Saikat Guha: > > Can't seem to cleanly downgrade to > > FC6 versions of either to narrow down the cause. > > I had to go back to pango-1.15.2-1.fc7 AND vte-0.15.0-2.fc7 to bring g-t > back to life. Thanks. Are old rawhide RPMS kept somewhere (local yum cache is clean, can't seem to find such a place through google)? Suggestion: When version v is pushed to fc7 devel, can v-1 be retained in the repo for people who may need to downgrade? cheers, -- Saikat -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: signature.asc Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 189 bytes Desc: This is a digitally signed message part URL: From al at authentidate.de Thu Jan 11 08:21:46 2007 From: al at authentidate.de (Andreas Laumann) Date: Thu, 11 Jan 2007 09:21:46 +0100 Subject: rawhide report: 20070110 changes In-Reply-To: <1168502608.3490.7.camel@sioux.systems.cs.cornell.edu> References: <200701101100.l0AB08Yl011093@hs20-bc2-6.build.redhat.com> <1168501538.3490.4.camel@sioux.systems.cs.cornell.edu> <1168502194.6997.5.camel@justine.inexnet.de> <1168502608.3490.7.camel@sioux.systems.cs.cornell.edu> Message-ID: <1168503706.6997.11.camel@justine.inexnet.de> Am Donnerstag, den 11.01.2007, 03:03 -0500 schrieb Saikat Guha: > On Thu, 2007-01-11 at 08:56 +0100, Andreas Laumann wrote: > > Am Donnerstag, den 11.01.2007, 02:45 -0500 schrieb Saikat Guha: > > > Can't seem to cleanly downgrade to > > > FC6 versions of either to narrow down the cause. > > > > I had to go back to pango-1.15.2-1.fc7 AND vte-0.15.0-2.fc7 to bring g-t > > back to life. > > Thanks. Are old rawhide RPMS kept somewhere (local yum cache is clean, > can't seem to find such a place through google)? I can provide them in a private mail if you like. This is what I have. pango-devel-1.15.2-1.fc7.x86_64 pango-1.15.2-1.fc7.i386 pango-1.15.2-1.fc7.x86_64 vte-0.15.0-2.fc7.x86_64 > > Suggestion: When version v is pushed to fc7 devel, can v-1 be retained > in the repo for people who may need to downgrade? Do it locally for you, change /etc/yum.conf keepcache to 1. > > cheers, > -- > fedora-devel-list mailing list > fedora-devel-list at redhat.com > https://www.redhat.com/mailman/listinfo/fedora-devel-list -- "Ja, diesem Sinne bin ich ganz ergeben,das ist der Weisheit letzterSchluss: Nur der verdient sich Freiheit wie das Leben,der t?glich sie erobern muss." Andreas Laumann phone: +49 211 436989-61 Chief Software Architect mobile: +49 151 167 227 51 Authentidate International AG fax: +49 211 43 69 89-19 Grossenbaumer Weg 6 mail: al at authentidate.de 40472 Duesseldorf / Germany web: http://www.authentidate.de From yanmin_zhang at linux.intel.com Thu Jan 11 08:24:39 2007 From: yanmin_zhang at linux.intel.com (Zhang, Yanmin) Date: Thu, 11 Jan 2007 16:24:39 +0800 Subject: [Fedora-ia64-list] Re: anaconda-runtime error In-Reply-To: <200701102235.09492.jkeating@redhat.com> References: <1168319262.15989.211.camel@ymzhang> <200701092228.17083.jkeating@redhat.com> <1168486169.15989.226.camel@ymzhang> <200701102235.09492.jkeating@redhat.com> Message-ID: <1168503879.15989.234.camel@ymzhang> On Wed, 2007-01-10 at 22:34 -0500, Jesse Keating wrote: > On Wednesday 10 January 2007 22:29, Zhang, Yanmin wrote: > > Jesse, > > > > I tried the latest anaconda-11.2.0.8-1 to rebuildup dvd image. > > Many issues (CD/hard/network didn't work) disappeared, but > > anaconda aborted after I inputed NFS inatallation server. It reported > > libnash.so.6.0.6 was missing. > > > > cann't open share dobject file: No such file or directory. > > > > I checked stage2.img and couldn't find libnash.so under usr/lib. > > > > I will add info to #219449. > > That should be fixed with tonight's rawhide (: > > Jeremy spent some time tonight getting anaconda to be able to actually > partition, install packages, reboot. Also, the glibc doublefree is fixed too > thanks to pyparted. I applied below patch, the nash.so issue disappeared. New issues: 1) Install by nfs: hit the glibc double free issue; 2) Install by cdrom: it reported no drive to have the cd; 3) Install by hard disk: it listed all partitions, but mount always failed. Wait for the new packages. Yanmin ------------------ diff -Nraup anaconda-11.2.0.8/scripts/upd-instroot anaconda-11.2.0.8_fix/scripts/upd-instroot --- anaconda-11.2.0.8/scripts/upd-instroot 2007-01-06 05:23:57.000000000 +0800 +++ anaconda-11.2.0.8_fix/scripts/upd-instroot 2007-01-11 05:29:44.000000000 +0800 @@ -123,7 +123,7 @@ PACKAGES="glibc glibc-common setup opens db4 rhpxl xorg-x11-server-Xorg libuser system-config-date yum-metadata-parser gfs2-utils libvolume_id libdhcp libnl libdhcp6client libdhcp4client - dmraid python-pyblock mkinitrd libbdevid libbdevid-python" + dmraid python-pyblock mkinitrd libbdevid libbdevid-python nash" if [ $ARCH = i386 -o $ARCH = x86_64 ]; then PACKAGES="$PACKAGES pcmciautils dmidecode" @@ -395,6 +395,7 @@ usr/$LIBDIR/libnl* usr/$LIBDIR/libparted* usr/$LIBDIR/libpopt* usr/$LIBDIR/libpython* +usr/$LIBDIR/libnash* usr/$LIBDIR/libneon* usr/$LIBDIR/libsqlite3* usr/$LIBDIR/librpm-*4.?.so* From tmus at tmus.dk Thu Jan 11 08:48:10 2007 From: tmus at tmus.dk (Thomas M Steenholdt) Date: Thu, 11 Jan 2007 09:48:10 +0100 Subject: proposal: mailing list reorganization In-Reply-To: References: <45A52F85.5020408@leemhuis.info> Message-ID: Bojan Smojver wrote: > Thorsten Leemhuis leemhuis.info> writes: > >> Thus the plan is to restrict it to well known open-source or project >> contributors and make it moderated for the rest of the world. > > So, when a new person attempts to subscribe to this list (say, a Debian or ASF > developer), someone is going to check this person's FOSS credentials before > membership is accepted, right? How is this going to be organised and will there > be objective criteria for "well known"? > Adding a restriction like this would be really bad, since a lot of users are "worthy" of devel-status and can produce occasional patches or propose/discuss stuff relevant for development, even though the don't own a FOSS project?!? This would effectively narrow the number of people who can (try to) influence the project. /Thomas From mk at crc.dk Thu Jan 11 08:47:57 2007 From: mk at crc.dk (Mogens Kjaer) Date: Thu, 11 Jan 2007 09:47:57 +0100 Subject: FC6 on a HP DC7700 In-Reply-To: <45A5EA62.5080901@crc.dk> References: <45A58C61.3080206@idigx.com> <45A5EA62.5080901@crc.dk> Message-ID: <45A5F9BD.3070708@crc.dk> Mogens Kjaer wrote: > Thomas Swan wrote: > ... >> On FC6 2.16.18-2869: >> # time ( let X=0; while [ $X -lt 1000 ] ; do let X=$X+1 ; done ) >> real 0m8.631s >> user 0m8.385s >> sys 0m0.203s > > This is not my experience: > > On FC6 x86_64 2.6.18-1.2869.fc6: > > real 0m0.014s > user 0m0.013s > sys 0m0.000s > > Note, this is the 64 bit FC6, acpi=off. > > It won't boot without acpi=off, BIOS > is v1.06 I tried installing FC6 i386 on this box: 2.6.18-1.2869.fc6: real 0m0.017s user 0m0.014s sys 0m0.003s It also needs acpi=off in order to boot. BIOS is still v1.06. Mogens -- Mogens Kjaer, Carlsberg A/S, Computer Department Gamle Carlsberg Vej 10, DK-2500 Valby, Denmark Phone: +45 33 27 53 25, Fax: +45 33 27 47 08 Email: mk at crc.dk Homepage: http://www.crc.dk From tmus at tmus.dk Thu Jan 11 08:53:56 2007 From: tmus at tmus.dk (Thomas M Steenholdt) Date: Thu, 11 Jan 2007 09:53:56 +0100 Subject: proposal: mailing list reorganization In-Reply-To: References: <45A52F85.5020408@leemhuis.info> Message-ID: Thomas M Steenholdt wrote: > Bojan Smojver wrote: >> Thorsten Leemhuis leemhuis.info> writes: >> >>> Thus the plan is to restrict it to well known open-source or project >>> contributors and make it moderated for the rest of the world. >> >> So, when a new person attempts to subscribe to this list (say, a >> Debian or ASF >> developer), someone is going to check this person's FOSS credentials >> before >> membership is accepted, right? How is this going to be organised and >> will there >> be objective criteria for "well known"? >> > > Adding a restriction like this would be really bad, since a lot of users > are "worthy" of devel-status and can produce occasional patches or > propose/discuss stuff relevant for development, even though the don't > own a FOSS project?!? > > This would effectively narrow the number of people who can (try to) > influence the project. > > /Thomas > Re-reading the original mail, I realized that I may have misunderstood the "restriction"?!? Making posts from *the world* moderated is probably not going to be a huge issue. As long as it's *possible* to subscribe and post for everyone. /Thomas From fedora at leemhuis.info Thu Jan 11 09:06:48 2007 From: fedora at leemhuis.info (Thorsten Leemhuis) Date: Thu, 11 Jan 2007 10:06:48 +0100 Subject: proposal: mailing list reorganization In-Reply-To: References: <45A52F85.5020408@leemhuis.info> Message-ID: <45A5FE28.2000100@leemhuis.info> Hi All! I'll answer to this mail now, to some of others later. On 11.01.2007 09:48, Thomas M Steenholdt wrote: > Bojan Smojver wrote: >> Thorsten Leemhuis leemhuis.info> writes: >>> Thus the plan is to restrict it to well known open-source or project >>> contributors and make it moderated for the rest of the world. >> So, when a new person attempts to subscribe to this list (say, a Debian or ASF >> developer), someone is going to check this person's FOSS credentials before >> membership is accepted, right? How is this going to be organised and will there >> be objective criteria for "well known"? > Adding a restriction like this would be really bad, That restriction mostly exists already in the form of "fedora-maintainers". That is open only for project contributors that discussed development stuff there in the past privately already. It got created after some important developers said "there is to much noise by non-contributors on fedora-devel". That's sad, but that the situation. I'd like to improve that situation again and would like to open that list (under a new name) wider again to all project and open source contributors and *moderated* to everyone else, too. > since a lot of users > are "worthy" of devel-status and can produce occasional patches or > propose/discuss stuff relevant for development, even though the don't > own a FOSS project?!? > This would effectively narrow the number of people who can (try to) > influence the project. Non-contributors can still post, but get moderated (if they showed to be "good" the get allowed to post without moderation, too); and fedora-devel-discuss remains totally open for this sort of discussions, too. The proposed solution is IMHO the best way to make both sides happy. CU thl From fedora at leemhuis.info Thu Jan 11 09:12:30 2007 From: fedora at leemhuis.info (Thorsten Leemhuis) Date: Thu, 11 Jan 2007 10:12:30 +0100 Subject: proposal: mailing list reorganization In-Reply-To: References: <45A52F85.5020408@leemhuis.info> Message-ID: <45A5FF7E.7040303@leemhuis.info> On 10.01.2007 22:26, Bojan Smojver wrote: > Thorsten Leemhuis leemhuis.info> writes: >> * fedora-devel-discuss -- We need an open devel list for users as >> fedora-devel is restricted. Support questions regarding devel stuff are >> on topic here, too. > Fedora-devel-discuss list should be called fedora-devel-users. The name > devel-discuss would suggest that one discusses development issues on this list, > where in fact it is for development code users. In an earlier version of the proposal it was named fedora-devel-users. I'm unsure myself what's the better name for the list. I'd like to have some more feedback on this part. So, dear readers of this mail, please send me a private mail (we don't need to spam the list with it) with either "I prefer fedora-devel-discuss" or "I prefer fedora-devel-users" in the subject (and optional: reasons for your opinion in the body) and I'll collect the stuff and write a short summary to the list. CU thl From nigel.metheringham at dev.intechnology.co.uk Thu Jan 11 09:20:02 2007 From: nigel.metheringham at dev.intechnology.co.uk (Nigel Metheringham) Date: Thu, 11 Jan 2007 09:20:02 +0000 Subject: proposal: mailing list reorganization In-Reply-To: <200701101456.33761.jkeating@redhat.com> References: <45A52F85.5020408@leemhuis.info> <1168458396.16118.6.camel@rousalka.dyndns.org> <1168458535.3618.50.camel@zod.rchland.ibm.com> <200701101456.33761.jkeating@redhat.com> Message-ID: <8CDC030D-B10D-4EB3-A583-9FEA1685E0D5@dev.intechnology.co.uk> On 10 Jan 2007, at 19:56, Jesse Keating wrote: > Not to mention that one can't really easily "rename" a list. Most > often it is > close one list, open a new one, mass subscribe. Its that last step > that gets > our IS in a tiff, as mass subscribing without end user consent is > tatamount > to spam, and we REALLY don't want to be a spam company. > Send out (Mailman) invites rather than subscribing people. Has the advantage of doing a list prune at the same time, and the target audience ought to be up to handling the idea. Nigel. -- [ Nigel Metheringham Nigel.Metheringham at InTechnology.co.uk ] [ - Comments in this message are my own and not ITO opinion/policy - ] From nicolas.mailhot at laposte.net Thu Jan 11 09:31:30 2007 From: nicolas.mailhot at laposte.net (Nicolas Mailhot) Date: Thu, 11 Jan 2007 10:31:30 +0100 (CET) Subject: Fedora 7 vs 6 installation In-Reply-To: <1168490721.5262.1.camel@cutter> References: <002801c7352d$84cebc10$020aa8c0@a18> <1168486035.3347.8.camel@lt21223.campus.dmacc.edu> <003801c73537$bce90650$020aa8c0@a18> <1168490721.5262.1.camel@cutter> Message-ID: <30065.192.54.193.51.1168507890.squirrel@rousalka.dyndns.org> Le Jeu 11 janvier 2007 05:45, seth vidal a ?crit : > On Wed, 2007-01-10 at 21:19 -0700, Jerry Williams wrote: > >> Yes, I have known about kickstart, any maybe I just need to learn more >> about >> it and work with it some more. >> But it seems like I do an install and then I add packages that I missed >> or >> someone else does and I also remove packages. >> >> Like I add postfix and the switch mail program and then switch to >> postfix >> and remove sendmail. Haven't figure out how/if you can just install >> postfix >> as your mail server with the GUI. >> > > %post in kickstart allows you to do pretty much whatever you want. The particular postfix vs sendmail exemple works better in kickstart, because you can avoid installing sendmail at all on the system, so all the switching hackery is not needed -- Nicolas Mailhot From nicolas.mailhot at laposte.net Thu Jan 11 09:33:37 2007 From: nicolas.mailhot at laposte.net (Nicolas Mailhot) Date: Thu, 11 Jan 2007 10:33:37 +0100 (CET) Subject: Fedora 7 vs 6 installation In-Reply-To: <004201c7354f$e89f9710$020aa8c0@a18> References: <002801c7352d$84cebc10$020aa8c0@a18><1168486035.3347.8.camel@lt21223.campus.dmacc.edu><003801c73537$bce90650$020aa8c0@a18> <1168490721.5262.1.camel@cutter> <004201c7354f$e89f9710$020aa8c0@a18> Message-ID: <38086.192.54.193.51.1168508017.squirrel@rousalka.dyndns.org> Le Jeu 11 janvier 2007 08:12, Jerry Williams a ?crit : > I wouldn't say that kickstart isn't flexible enough, but the GUI doesn't > let > you pick individual packages or do a rpm -qa and populate a list of > packages. How hard is it to add a +postfix -sendmail to the kickstart package list in a text editor? (the GUI tools suck - no news here) -- Nicolas Mailhot From fedora at camperquake.de Thu Jan 11 09:34:55 2007 From: fedora at camperquake.de (Ralf Ertzinger) Date: Thu, 11 Jan 2007 10:34:55 +0100 Subject: Fedora 7 vs 6 installation In-Reply-To: <002801c7352d$84cebc10$020aa8c0@a18> References: <002801c7352d$84cebc10$020aa8c0@a18> Message-ID: <20070111103455.569f5de3@banea.int.addix.net> Hi. On Wed, 10 Jan 2007 20:06:41 -0700, Jerry Williams wrote: > The other thing that kind of bugs me is the resolution that is used > for the display. The default seems way high. > I am thinking that it would be better to start with 800x600 or > 1024x768 and then let the user bump it up it they would like. I seem to remember that the FC6 installer came up with 800x600 on my laptop. From andrewparker at bigfoot.com Thu Jan 11 09:50:59 2007 From: andrewparker at bigfoot.com (Andrew Parker) Date: Thu, 11 Jan 2007 04:50:59 -0500 Subject: F7 KDE spin In-Reply-To: <200701100930.42922.lamont@gurulabs.com> References: <45A2BABB.2090902@math.unl.edu> <13dbfe4f0701091106w1553b24fv28b7fcb5f5bb64ca@mail.gmail.com> <1168432885.16494.31.camel@gilboa-work-dev.localdomain> <200701100930.42922.lamont@gurulabs.com> Message-ID: <6c3f5e6c0701110150k4faa182fyd016deaf2b9bf3d7@mail.gmail.com> On 1/10/07, Lamont Peterson wrote: > Yes you can, just copy /var/cache/yum/ to a USB keychain drive (or SD card, > or ...) or burn it to a disc. However, because the cache will change almost > daily, this could get tedious. Maybe its just my setups, but my /var/cache/yum wouldn't be worth sharing. Comparing the contents of the directory either side of an install resulted in no change. Is a copy of the package supposed to be in there? From pertusus at free.fr Thu Jan 11 10:12:21 2007 From: pertusus at free.fr (Patrice Dumas) Date: Thu, 11 Jan 2007 11:12:21 +0100 Subject: F7 KDE spin In-Reply-To: <45A2BABB.2090902@math.unl.edu> References: <45A2BABB.2090902@math.unl.edu> Message-ID: <20070111101221.GA2590@free.fr> On Mon, Jan 08, 2007 at 03:42:19PM -0600, Rex Dieter wrote: > OK, I've slapped down a quick-n-dirty laundry list of items off the top > of my head to get started on the F7 KDE spin: > http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Releases/FeatureFedoraKDE What about putting on the iso everything in comps which is in kde-desktop and the tools in kde-software-development (ie exclude the -devel packages)? -- Pat From kevin.kofler at chello.at Thu Jan 11 10:54:50 2007 From: kevin.kofler at chello.at (Kevin Kofler) Date: Thu, 11 Jan 2007 10:54:50 +0000 (UTC) Subject: F7 KDE spin References: <45A2BABB.2090902@math.unl.edu> <20070111101221.GA2590@free.fr> Message-ID: Patrice Dumas free.fr> writes: > What about putting on the iso everything in comps which is in > kde-desktop and the tools in kde-software-development (ie exclude > the -devel packages)? "exclude the -devel packages"? Are you serious? I'd much rather have the KDE -devel packages on the ISO(s) than Evolution or Firefox! Kevin Kofler From buildsys at redhat.com Thu Jan 11 11:03:08 2007 From: buildsys at redhat.com (buildsys at redhat.com) Date: Thu, 11 Jan 2007 06:03:08 -0500 Subject: rawhide report: 20070111 changes Message-ID: <200701111103.l0BB38nR018344@hs20-bc2-6.build.redhat.com> Updated Packages: alacarte-0.11.1.1-1.fc7 ----------------------- * Thu Jan 11 2007 Matthias Clasen - 0.11.1.1-1 - Update to 0.11.1.1 alsa-utils-1.0.14-0.2.rc1.fc7 ----------------------------- * Wed Jan 10 2007 Martin Stransky 1.0.14-0.2.rc1 - added a config line for hda-intel driver anaconda-11.2.0.9-1 ------------------- * Wed Jan 10 2007 Jeremy Katz - 11.2.0.9-1 - Set NETWORKING_IPV6 based on whether we want ipv6 for any devices or not (dcantrell, katzj, #222147) - Little fixes so installs work. at-spi-1.7.15-1.fc7 ------------------- * Wed Jan 10 2007 Matthias Clasen - 1.7.15-1 - Update to 1.7.15 atk-1.13.1-1.fc7 ---------------- * Wed Jan 10 2007 Matthias Clasen - 1.13.1-1 - Update to 1.13.1 coreutils-6.7-1.fc7 ------------------- * Tue Jan 09 2007 Tim Waugh 6.7-1 - 6.7. No longer need sort-compatibility, rename, newhashes, timestyle, acl, df-cifs, afs or autoconf patches. * Tue Jan 02 2007 Tim Waugh - Prevent 'su --help' showing runuser-only options such as --group. cpuspeed-1:1.2.1-1.52.fc7 ------------------------- dosfstools-2.11-6.1.fc7 ----------------------- elfutils-0.125-3.fc7 -------------------- * Wed Jan 10 2007 Roland McGrath - 0.125-3.fc7 - Fix overeager warn_unused_result build failures. * Wed Jan 10 2007 Roland McGrath - 0.125-1 - Update to 0.125 - elflint: Compare DT_GNU_HASH tests. - move archives into -static RPMs - libelf, elflint: better support for core file handling - Really fix libdwfl sorting of modules with 64-bit addresses (#220817). - Resolves: RHBZ #220817, RHBZ #213792 eog-2.17.4-1.fc7 ---------------- * Wed Jan 10 2007 Matthias Clasen - 2.17.4-1 - Update to 2.17.4 * Tue Jan 09 2007 Behdad Esfahbod - 2.17.3-2 - Handle svgz images - Resolves: #219782 epic-4:2.6-1.fc7 ---------------- * Wed Jan 10 2007 Peter Vrabec 4:2.6-1 - upgrade * Mon Jul 31 2006 Peter Vrabec 4:2.4-5 - upgrade to new bugfix release * Mon Jul 31 2006 Peter Vrabec 4:2.2-5 - add buildrequires ncurses-devel epiphany-2.17.5-1.fc7 --------------------- * Thu Jan 11 2007 Matthias Clasen 2.17.5-1 - Update to 2.17.5 evince-0.7.1-1.fc7 ------------------ * Wed Jan 10 2007 Matthias Clasen - 0.7.1-1 - Update to 0.7.1 evolution-2.9.5-2.fc7 --------------------- * Wed Jan 10 2007 Matthew Barnes - 2.9.5-2.fc7 - Add patch for GNOME bug #359979 (change EMsgPort semantics). * Mon Jan 08 2007 Matthew Barnes - 2.9.5-1.fc7 - Update to 2.9.5 - Remove pilot-link-0.12 patch (fixed upstream). - Remove patch for RH bug #215466 and #218589 (fixed upstream). - Remove patch for RH bug #215695 (fixed upstream). * Sat Dec 30 2006 Matthew Barnes - 2.9.4-4.fc7 - Add Requires evolution-data-server-devel to devel subpackage (RH bug #218889). evolution-data-server-1.9.5-3.fc7 --------------------------------- * Wed Jan 10 2007 Matthew Barnes - 1.9.5-3.fc7 - Add patch for GNOME bug #359979 (change EMsgPort semantics). file-roller-2.17.5-1.fc7 ------------------------ * Wed Jan 10 2007 Matthias Clasen - 2.17.5-1 - Update to 2.17.5 gail-1.10.0-1.fc7 ----------------- gawk-3.1.5-12.fc7 ----------------- * Thu Jan 11 2007 Karel Zak 3.1.5-12 - fix #222080 double free or corruption * Wed Jul 19 2006 Karel Zak 3.1.5-11 - spec file cleanup * Tue Jul 18 2006 Karel Zak 3.1.5-10 - add IPv6 support (patch be Jan Pazdziora) gcalctool-5.9.10-1.fc7 ---------------------- * Wed Jan 10 2007 Matthias Clasen - 5.9.10-1 - Update to 5.9.10 gdm-1:2.17.5-1.fc7 ------------------ * Thu Jan 11 2007 Matthias Clasen - 1:2.17.5-1 - Update to 2.17.5 gedit-1:2.17.3-1.fc7 -------------------- * Wed Jan 10 2007 Matthias Clasen - 1:2.17.3-1 - Update to 2.17.3 gettext-0.16.1-2.fc7 -------------------- * Thu Jan 11 2007 Jens Petersen - 0.16.1-2 - move /usr/lib/gettext to devel subpackage gimp-print-4.2.7-24.fc7 ----------------------- * Wed Jan 10 2007 Tim Waugh 4.2.7-24 - Don't build the plugin subpackage (bug #196989). gnome-applets-1:2.17.1-1.fc7 ---------------------------- * Wed Jan 10 2007 Matthias Clasen - 1:2.17.1-1 - Update to 2.17.1 * Wed Jan 10 2007 Ray Strode - 1:2.16.2-6 - fix null applet error on login for new users (bug 222104) gnome-desktop-2.17.5-1.fc7 -------------------------- * Wed Jan 10 2007 Matthias Clasen - 2.17.5-1 - Update to 2.17.5 gnome-games-1:2.17.5-1.fc7 -------------------------- * Wed Jan 10 2007 Matthias Clasen - 1:2.17.5-1 - Update to 2.17.5 gnome-icon-theme-2.17.5-1.fc7 ----------------------------- * Wed Jan 10 2007 Matthias Clasen - 2.17.5-1 - Update to 2.17.5 gnome-keyring-0.7.3-1.fc7 ------------------------- * Wed Jan 10 2007 Matthias Clasen - 0.7.3-1 - Update to 0.7.3 * Tue Dec 19 2006 Matthias Clasen - 0.7.2-1 - Update to 0.7.2 * Mon Nov 06 2006 Matthias Clasen - 0.7.1-1 - Update to 0.7.1 gnome-mag-0.14.1-1.fc7 ---------------------- * Wed Jan 10 2007 Matthias Clasen - 0.14.1-1 - Update to 0.14.1 gnome-media-2.17.2-1.fc7 ------------------------ * Wed Jan 10 2007 Matthias Clasen - 2.17.2-1 - Update to 2.17.2 gnome-menus-2.17.5-1.fc7 ------------------------ * Wed Jan 10 2007 Matthias Clasen - 2.17.5-1 - Update to 2.17.5 - Remove traces of gmenu-simple-editor gnome-screensaver-2.17.5-1.fc7 ------------------------------ * Thu Jan 11 2007 Matthias Clasen - 2.17.5-1 - Update to 2.17.5 gnome-system-monitor-2.17.5-1.fc7 --------------------------------- * Thu Jan 11 2007 Matthias Clasen - 2.17.5-1 - Update to 2.17.5 gnome-themes-2.17.5-1.fc7 ------------------------- * Wed Jan 10 2007 Matthias Clasen - 2.17.5-1 - Update to 2.17.5 gnome-utils-1:2.17.1-1.fc7 -------------------------- * Wed Jan 10 2007 Matthias Clasen - 2.17.1-1 - Update to 2.17.1 gthumb-2.9.1-1.fc7 ------------------ * Wed Jan 10 2007 Matthias Clasen - 2.9.1-1 - Update to 2.9.1 gtk2-engines-2.9.1-1.fc7 ------------------------ * Wed Jan 10 2007 Matthias Clasen - 2.9.1-1 - Update to 2.9.1 gtksourceview-1.8.3-1.fc7 ------------------------- * Wed Jan 10 2007 Matthias Clasen - 1.8.3-1 - Update to 1.8.3 hplip-1.6.12-1.fc7 ------------------ * Wed Jan 10 2007 Tim Waugh 1.6.12-1 - 1.6.12. No longer need broken-conf, loop, out-of-paper or sane-debug patches. intltool-0.35.4-1.fc7 --------------------- * Wed Jan 10 2007 Matthias Clasen - 0.35.4-1 - Update to 0.35.4 iptables-1.3.7-1.1 ------------------ * Wed Jan 10 2007 Thomas Woerner 1.3.7-1.1 - fixed installation of secmark modules kernel-2.6.19-1.2909.fc7 ------------------------ * Wed Jan 10 2007 Dave Jones - 2.6.20rc4-git4 - PIIX3 PATA support. libbonoboui-2.17.0-1.fc7 ------------------------ * Wed Jan 10 2007 Matthias Clasen - 2.17.0-1 - Update to 2.17.0 libgnome-2.17.3-1.fc7 --------------------- * Wed Jan 10 2007 Matthias Clasen - 2.17.3-1 - Update to 2.17.3 * Wed Jan 10 2007 Matthias Clasen - 2.17.2-1 - Update to 2.17.2 * Tue Dec 05 2006 Matthias Clasen - 2.17.1-1 - Update to 2.17.1 libgnomeui-2.17.1-1.fc7 ----------------------- * Wed Jan 10 2007 Matthias Clasen - 2.17.1-1 - Update to 2.17.1 logrotate-3.7.4-10.fc7 ---------------------- * Wed Jan 10 2007 Peter Vrabec 3.7.4-10 - fix some rpmlint issues m17n-db-1.3.4-2.fc7 ------------------- * Thu Jan 11 2007 Mayank Jain - Moved all translations to m17n-db-datafiles package m17n-lib-1.3.4-1.1.fc7 ---------------------- * Wed Jan 10 2007 Mayank Jain - 1.3.4-1.1.fc7 - rebuild for m17n-lib-1.3.4 version - Updated m17n-lib-nobuild-examples.patch * Wed Jul 12 2006 Jesse Keating - 1.3.3-1.1.fc6 - rebuild * Wed Jul 12 2006 Mayank Jain - 1.3.3-1.fc6 - Updated spec file for changes mentioned in RH bug 193524, comment 4 - Thanks to Mamoru Tasaka nautilus-cd-burner-2.17.5-1.fc7 ------------------------------- * Wed Jan 10 2007 Matthias Clasen - 2.17.5-1 - Update to 2.17.5 ncompress-4.2.4-48.fc7 ---------------------- * Wed Jan 10 2007 Peter Vrabec 4.2.4-48 - fix some rpmlint issues ncurses-5.6-1.20070106.fc7 -------------------------- * Wed Jan 10 2007 Miroslav Lichvar 5.6-1.20070106 - update to 5.6, patch 20070106 orca-2.17.5-1.fc7 ----------------- * Thu Jan 11 2007 Matthias Clasen - 2.17.5-1 - Update to orca 2.17.5 postgresql-8.2.1-1.fc7 ---------------------- * Wed Jan 10 2007 Tom Lane 8.2.1-1 - Update to PostgreSQL 8.2.1 - Update to pgtcl 1.5.3 - Be sure we link to libncurses, not libtermcap which is disappearing in Fedora pyparted-1.8.2-1.fc7 -------------------- * Wed Jan 10 2007 Jeremy Katz - 1.8.2-1 - use PyObject_DEL instead of PyMem_DEL rhpl-0.199-1 ------------ * Wed Jan 10 2007 Paul Nasrat - 0.199-1 - Fix Korean keyboard map (#212280) system-config-samba-1.2.38-1.fc7 -------------------------------- * Wed Jan 10 2007 Nils Philippsen - 1.2.38 - get list of configuration parameters and defaults from testparm, fix duplicate dict keys (#219308) vconfig-1.9-3.fc7 ----------------- * Wed Jan 10 2007 Phil Knirsch - 1.9-3 - Removed CVS cruft from documentation (#221161) - Tiny specfile cleanups. vino-2.17.5-1.fc7 ----------------- * Wed Jan 10 2007 Matthias Clasen - 2.17.5-1 - Update to 2.17.5 vte-0.15.1-2.fc7 ---------------- * Wed Jan 10 2007 Behdad Esfahbod 0.15.1-2 - Add vte-0.15.1-segfault.patch - Fixes crasher on x86_64 (GNOME#394890) wget-1.10.2-11.fc7 ------------------ * Wed Jan 10 2007 Karsten Hopp 1.10.2-11 - add fix for CVE-2006-6719 zenity-2.17.3-1.fc7 ------------------- * Wed Jan 10 2007 Matthias Clasen - 2.17.3-1 - Update to 2.17.3 Broken deps for s390 ---------------------------------------------------------- systemtap - 0.5.10-1.fc7.s390 requires kernel >= 0:2.6.9-11 systemtap-runtime - 0.5.10-1.fc7.s390 requires kernel >= 0:2.6.9-11 From drago01 at gmail.com Thu Jan 11 11:21:39 2007 From: drago01 at gmail.com (dragoran) Date: Thu, 11 Jan 2007 12:21:39 +0100 Subject: rawhide report: 20070111 changes In-Reply-To: <200701111103.l0BB38nR018344@hs20-bc2-6.build.redhat.com> References: <200701111103.l0BB38nR018344@hs20-bc2-6.build.redhat.com> Message-ID: <45A61DC3.3040409@gmail.com> buildsys at redhat.com wrote: > > > > Updated Packages: > > [...] > anaconda-11.2.0.9-1 > ------------------- > * Wed Jan 10 2007 Jeremy Katz - 11.2.0.9-1 > - Set NETWORKING_IPV6 based on whether we want ipv6 for > any devices or not (dcantrell, katzj, #222147) > - Little fixes so installs work. > does this anaconda supports sw raid? it was broken/diabled some time ago so I was unable to use it on my box? is this fixed now? if not, will it get fixed before T1? > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > From dtimms at iinet.net.au Thu Jan 11 11:33:38 2007 From: dtimms at iinet.net.au (David Timms) Date: Thu, 11 Jan 2007 22:33:38 +1100 Subject: Fedora 7 vs 6 installation - remove final next In-Reply-To: <002801c7352d$84cebc10$020aa8c0@a18> References: <002801c7352d$84cebc10$020aa8c0@a18> Message-ID: <45A62092.8050203@iinet.net.au> Jerry Williams wrote: > I have been installing Fedora Core 6 on a few machines and I would like to > suggest some changes. > I should have been more involved with 6 and then maybe it would have been > better. > So I am trying to get involved with 7 in the hopes that it will happen. > > I think my biggest complaint about the 6 install is the time it takes to do > the package dependency check and that you have to click okay to start the > install. > > I would like to see maybe a check box to fix this. > That says: continue with install if everything it okay. > So you could check the box and walk away. https://bugzilla.redhat.com/bugzilla/show_bug.cgi?id=177391 There was no real discussion at the time in saying wontfix. I still think that this is essential to nppo {not iss people off}. If anybody really wants and has a need (anaconda developers?) to display such a check box, it would make sense to have a checkbox on the previous screen "wait after resolving package selections", which would be by default not ticked. The only reason I can think of to not immediately go ahead after package selection is if the package resolution was not solvable -> then you would show a screen informing our user of the fact. Is there anyone can give a good reason for requiring the user to wait 2-5-10 minutes for package resolution to complete, and then actually ask the user if they want to "next" what they have already said they want to do, namely install fedora ?? {The final screen could be a more informative status of the install screen. eg a progress bar and checkbox list, with each step of the way being checked when complete, with a decent estimate of time min:sec until ready to use.} DaveT. From rob at choralone.org Thu Jan 11 12:03:45 2007 From: rob at choralone.org (Rob Andrews) Date: Thu, 11 Jan 2007 12:03:45 +0000 Subject: rawhide report: 20070110 changes In-Reply-To: <1168480412.10948.5.camel@home> References: <200701101100.l0AB08Yl011093@hs20-bc2-6.build.redhat.com> <1168450481.5205.45.camel@kloczek01.pracownicy.zie> <1168480412.10948.5.camel@home> Message-ID: <20070111120345.GA8420@aphasia.badger.choralone.org> On 11-Jan-2007 01:53.32 (GMT), Behdad Esfahbod wrote: > I made a similar change in Pango, to include the basic-fc module, and > that seems to be working, other than processes running at the time of > update seem to err, but that's transitional. I had to run pango-querymodules-64 > /etc/pango/x86_64-redhat-linux-gnu/pango.modules to stop a flood of messages regarding the missing basic-fc module. -- rob andrews :: pgp 0x01e00563 :: rob at choralone.org From nicolas.mailhot at laposte.net Thu Jan 11 12:14:33 2007 From: nicolas.mailhot at laposte.net (Nicolas Mailhot) Date: Thu, 11 Jan 2007 13:14:33 +0100 (CET) Subject: rawhide report: 20070111 changes Message-ID: <48134.192.54.193.51.1168517673.squirrel@rousalka.dyndns.org> Le Jeu 11 janvier 2007 12:21, dragoran a ?crit : > buildsys at redhat.com wrote: >> Updated Packages: >> >> [...] >> anaconda-11.2.0.9-1 >> ------------------- >> * Wed Jan 10 2007 Jeremy Katz - 11.2.0.9-1 >> - Set NETWORKING_IPV6 based on whether we want ipv6 for >> any devices or not (dcantrell, katzj, #222147) >> - Little fixes so installs work. >> > does this anaconda supports sw raid? > it was broken/diabled some time ago so I was unable to use it on my box? > is this fixed now? if not, will it get fixed before T1? Are you sure anaconda is the problem? -devel can not boot at all on software raid right now https://bugzilla.redhat.com/bugzilla/show_bug.cgi?id=221696 Regards, -- Nicolas Mailhot From jdieter at gmail.com Thu Jan 11 12:37:32 2007 From: jdieter at gmail.com (Jonathan Dieter) Date: Thu, 11 Jan 2007 14:37:32 +0200 Subject: F7 KDE spin In-Reply-To: References: <45A2BABB.2090902@math.unl.edu> <20070111101221.GA2590@free.fr> Message-ID: <1168519052.8188.10.camel@jndwidescreen.lesbg.loc> On Thu, 2007-01-11 at 10:54 +0000, Kevin Kofler wrote: > Patrice Dumas free.fr> writes: > > What about putting on the iso everything in comps which is in > > kde-desktop and the tools in kde-software-development (ie exclude > > the -devel packages)? > > "exclude the -devel packages"? Are you serious? I'd much rather have the > KDE -devel packages on the ISO(s) than Evolution or Firefox! > > Kevin Kofler > What about doing support ISO(s) for the spin? For example, you might have kde-desktop and kde-software-development, (etc, etc) in "F7 KDE CD 1: Desktop". Then, you might have "F7 KDE CD 2: Extra Applications" for firefox, evolution, etc. Finally, you might have "F7 KDE CD 3: Development Libraries" with all the -devel packages. CD 3 doesn't need to depend on anything in CD 2, so you'd only need all three CDs if you want to install the extra applications AND the -devel packages. I don't know what it would take to make this work, but IIRC, early RedHat distributions used to do something like this (or maybe it was just having SRPMS on different CDs). Jonathan -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: signature.asc Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 189 bytes Desc: This is a digitally signed message part URL: From david at lovesunix.net Thu Jan 11 12:46:39 2007 From: david at lovesunix.net (David Nielsen) Date: Thu, 11 Jan 2007 13:46:39 +0100 Subject: rawhide report: 20070111 changes In-Reply-To: <48134.192.54.193.51.1168517673.squirrel@rousalka.dyndns.org> References: <48134.192.54.193.51.1168517673.squirrel@rousalka.dyndns.org> Message-ID: <1168519599.26169.21.camel@dawkins> tor, 11 01 2007 kl. 13:14 +0100, skrev Nicolas Mailhot: > Le Jeu 11 janvier 2007 12:21, dragoran a ?crit : > > buildsys at redhat.com wrote: > > >> Updated Packages: > >> > >> [...] > >> anaconda-11.2.0.9-1 > >> ------------------- > >> * Wed Jan 10 2007 Jeremy Katz - 11.2.0.9-1 > >> - Set NETWORKING_IPV6 based on whether we want ipv6 for > >> any devices or not (dcantrell, katzj, #222147) > >> - Little fixes so installs work. > >> > > does this anaconda supports sw raid? > > it was broken/diabled some time ago so I was unable to use it on my box? > > is this fixed now? if not, will it get fixed before T1? > > Are you sure anaconda is the problem? > -devel can not boot at all on software raid right now > > https://bugzilla.redhat.com/bugzilla/show_bug.cgi?id=221696 Nor dmraid for that matter. - David Nielsen -- "Ridicule is the only weapon that can be used against unintelligible propositions. Ideas must be distinct before reason can act upon them.? -Thomas Jefferson -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: signature.asc Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 189 bytes Desc: Dette er en digitalt underskrevet brevdel URL: From vonbrand at inf.utfsm.cl Thu Jan 11 12:51:52 2007 From: vonbrand at inf.utfsm.cl (Horst H. von Brand) Date: Thu, 11 Jan 2007 09:51:52 -0300 Subject: Fedora 7 In-Reply-To: Your message of "Thu, 11 Jan 2007 19:46:40 +1800." <16de708d0701101746t4440d4f3o55c5450cc5957584@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <200701111251.l0BCpqmh006826@laptop13.inf.utfsm.cl> Arthur Pemberton wrote: > On 1/10/07, Horst H. von Brand wrote: > [...] > > [...] > > > > > All I'm asking for a Fedora blessed infrastructure to be put in place, > > > not for any one person to be responsible for populating it > > > > This requires manpower (to check for junk, to clean up entries, to > > discriminate among conclicting entries, ...). Ask the people at > > if this is a trivial job. And printers are > > outside the box, so it is /simple/ compared to all possible strange > > interactions among in-box pieces. > > I may be ignorant on the finer details, but between the outputs of > lspci, and lsusb, how many dupplicates can their possibly be? I've seen a WiFi card with a (somewhat) supported TI chipset which didn't work at all, due to differences in the handling of firmware by the rest of the card (or that was what we ended up suspecting, as firmware loading just didn't work). lspci/lsusb saying something is no guarantee that the rest of the card isn't screwed up beyond hope. > While it may be non trivial to maintain linuxprinting.org it is a very > useful resource for pre-purchase printer considerations. Yes. Now multiply that job by 10 (WiFi cards, say, have a much shorter lifespan than printers and there are much more companies making the stuff) for each type of device out there, and you are in the ballpark of what this requires. > Google is a great resource, but it only goes so far. A web page purporting to list all devices supported by Fedora will make information materialize out of thin air exactly how? If it ain't in Google, it doesn't exist... But what do I know... set up the webpage and start collecting data. I'd love to be proven wrong. > I recently had to setup an older sound interface pci card on a fedora > box I setup at work. And indiciations were bright that it was linux > compatible and fully alsa supported. I did a locate and found the > module already in the fedora kernel tree , i thought great. > > 2-3 hours later I finally found out that the card needed firmware, not > available in extras or core, and just barely mentioned on the driver's > author's page. > > It would have been nice to know that the kernel module is Fedora > compatible, but the firmware (to make the device work) is not. If the /author/ doesn't tell you that, how are the Fedora folks to know about that minor detail? > > > The benefit of this being that next time I'm buying hardware, I can > > > scurry over to the db and check what the best options are. > > > > For higher-end stuff the data is usually at hand, for el-cheapo not (and > > better stay away from that in any case). > > I'm not sure what more one needs than the output of lspci, and lsusb, > and dmesg...of course I could be missing something here. lspci(8) mostly tells you the base chip in the card, and to get there you have to install it somewhere sane. Won't work for buying a card by mail order. And that is not enough, as other pieces/variations of the chip might (or not) work. -- Dr. Horst H. von Brand User #22616 counter.li.org Departamento de Informatica Fono: +56 32 2654431 Universidad Tecnica Federico Santa Maria +56 32 2654239 Casilla 110-V, Valparaiso, Chile Fax: +56 32 2797513 From jkeating at redhat.com Thu Jan 11 13:20:03 2007 From: jkeating at redhat.com (Jesse Keating) Date: Thu, 11 Jan 2007 08:20:03 -0500 Subject: [Fedora-ia64-list] Re: anaconda-runtime error In-Reply-To: <1168503879.15989.234.camel@ymzhang> References: <1168319262.15989.211.camel@ymzhang> <200701102235.09492.jkeating@redhat.com> <1168503879.15989.234.camel@ymzhang> Message-ID: <200701110820.03701.jkeating@redhat.com> On Thursday 11 January 2007 03:24, Zhang, Yanmin wrote: > I applied below patch, the nash.so issue disappeared. > New issues: > 1) Install by nfs: hit the glibc double free issue; > 2) Install by cdrom: it reported no drive to have the cd; > 3) Install by hard disk: it listed all partitions, but mount always failed. > > Wait for the new packages. You need the updated pyparted package in the mix too. -- Jesse Keating Release Engineer: Fedora -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 189 bytes Desc: not available URL: From katzj at redhat.com Thu Jan 11 13:25:38 2007 From: katzj at redhat.com (Jeremy Katz) Date: Thu, 11 Jan 2007 08:25:38 -0500 Subject: rawhide report: 20070111 changes In-Reply-To: <45A61DC3.3040409@gmail.com> References: <200701111103.l0BB38nR018344@hs20-bc2-6.build.redhat.com> <45A61DC3.3040409@gmail.com> Message-ID: <1168521938.11741.2.camel@aglarond.local> On Thu, 2007-01-11 at 12:21 +0100, dragoran wrote: > > [...] > > anaconda-11.2.0.9-1 > > ------------------- > > * Wed Jan 10 2007 Jeremy Katz - 11.2.0.9-1 > > - Set NETWORKING_IPV6 based on whether we want ipv6 for > > any devices or not (dcantrell, katzj, #222147) > > - Little fixes so installs work. > > > does this anaconda supports sw raid? > it was broken/diabled some time ago so I was unable to use it on my box? > is this fixed now? if not, will it get fixed before T1? I'm just glad we can do a basic install again :-) mdraid will return, it's just a matter of finding the round 'tuits... which should hopefully be before test1, but if not, definitely before test2 Jeremy From vonbrand at inf.utfsm.cl Thu Jan 11 13:44:32 2007 From: vonbrand at inf.utfsm.cl (Horst H. von Brand) Date: Thu, 11 Jan 2007 10:44:32 -0300 Subject: rawhide report: 20070111 changes In-Reply-To: Message from buildsys@redhat.com of "Thu, 11 Jan 2007 06:03:08 CDT." <200701111103.l0BB38nR018344@hs20-bc2-6.build.redhat.com> Message-ID: <200701111344.l0BDiWpk012203@laptop13.inf.utfsm.cl> buildsys at redhat.com wrote: > Updated Packages: [...] > gnome-desktop-2.17.5-1.fc7 > -------------------------- > * Wed Jan 10 2007 Matthias Clasen - 2.17.5-1 > - Update to 2.17.5 Gives (i686): Updating : gnome-desktop-devel ##################### [ 58/160] I/O warning : failed to load external entity "glchess.schemas" Failed to open `glchess.schemas': No such file or directory locate(1) doesn't find any file of that name here. [...] > gnome-menus-2.17.5-1.fc7 > ------------------------ > * Wed Jan 10 2007 Matthias Clasen - 2.17.5-1 > - Update to 2.17.5 > - Remove traces of gmenu-simple-editor Clashes with redhat-menus: Transaction Check Error: file /usr/share/desktop-directories/System.directory from install of gnome-menus-2.17.5-1.fc7 conflicts with file from package redhat-menus-7.8.9-1.fc7 -- Dr. Horst H. von Brand User #22616 counter.li.org Departamento de Informatica Fono: +56 32 2654431 Universidad Tecnica Federico Santa Maria +56 32 2654239 Casilla 110-V, Valparaiso, Chile Fax: +56 32 2797513 From drago01 at gmail.com Thu Jan 11 13:45:00 2007 From: drago01 at gmail.com (dragoran) Date: Thu, 11 Jan 2007 14:45:00 +0100 Subject: rawhide report: 20070111 changes In-Reply-To: <1168521938.11741.2.camel@aglarond.local> References: <200701111103.l0BB38nR018344@hs20-bc2-6.build.redhat.com> <45A61DC3.3040409@gmail.com> <1168521938.11741.2.camel@aglarond.local> Message-ID: <45A63F5C.9020801@gmail.com> Jeremy Katz wrote: > On Thu, 2007-01-11 at 12:21 +0100, dragoran wrote: > >>> [...] >>> anaconda-11.2.0.9-1 >>> ------------------- >>> * Wed Jan 10 2007 Jeremy Katz - 11.2.0.9-1 >>> - Set NETWORKING_IPV6 based on whether we want ipv6 for >>> any devices or not (dcantrell, katzj, #222147) >>> - Little fixes so installs work. >>> >>> >> does this anaconda supports sw raid? >> it was broken/diabled some time ago so I was unable to use it on my box? >> is this fixed now? if not, will it get fixed before T1? >> > > I'm just glad we can do a basic install again :-) > > mdraid will return, it's just a matter of finding the round 'tuits... > which should hopefully be before test1, but if not, definitely before > test2 > ok thx is this tracked somewhere? when it starts to work again I would like to test ;) > Jeremy > > From sundaram at fedoraproject.org Thu Jan 11 13:53:56 2007 From: sundaram at fedoraproject.org (Rahul Sundaram) Date: Thu, 11 Jan 2007 19:23:56 +0530 Subject: Fedora 7 vs 6 installation In-Reply-To: <004201c7354f$e89f9710$020aa8c0@a18> References: <002801c7352d$84cebc10$020aa8c0@a18><1168486035.3347.8.camel@lt21223.campus.dmacc.edu><003801c73537$bce90650$020aa8c0@a18> <1168490721.5262.1.camel@cutter> <004201c7354f$e89f9710$020aa8c0@a18> Message-ID: <45A64174.6010105@fedoraproject.org> Jerry Williams wrote: > It kind or reminds me of using yum when a dependency is broken. It would be > nice to have an option to just say update the things that are all there and > skip what you can't resolve. Instead I have taken the list from yum and > made a wrapper script to give yum one package at a time to update and just > let the ones fail that are going to anyway. You dont have to do that. Use the skip dependency plugin in Fedora Extras Rahul From fedora at camperquake.de Thu Jan 11 14:04:14 2007 From: fedora at camperquake.de (Ralf Ertzinger) Date: Thu, 11 Jan 2007 15:04:14 +0100 Subject: Fedora 7 vs 6 installation In-Reply-To: <45A64174.6010105@fedoraproject.org> References: <002801c7352d$84cebc10$020aa8c0@a18> <1168486035.3347.8.camel@lt21223.campus.dmacc.edu> <003801c73537$bce90650$020aa8c0@a18> <1168490721.5262.1.camel@cutter> <004201c7354f$e89f9710$020aa8c0@a18> <45A64174.6010105@fedoraproject.org> Message-ID: <20070111150414.2a7edd24@banea.int.addix.net> Hi. On Thu, 11 Jan 2007 19:23:56 +0530, Rahul Sundaram wrote: > You dont have to do that. Use the skip dependency plugin in Fedora > Extras Which, sometimes, makes quite weird decisions, in my experience. From sundaram at fedoraproject.org Thu Jan 11 14:09:28 2007 From: sundaram at fedoraproject.org (Rahul Sundaram) Date: Thu, 11 Jan 2007 19:39:28 +0530 Subject: Fedora 7 vs 6 installation In-Reply-To: <20070111150414.2a7edd24@banea.int.addix.net> References: <002801c7352d$84cebc10$020aa8c0@a18> <1168486035.3347.8.camel@lt21223.campus.dmacc.edu> <003801c73537$bce90650$020aa8c0@a18> <1168490721.5262.1.camel@cutter> <004201c7354f$e89f9710$020aa8c0@a18> <45A64174.6010105@fedoraproject.org> <20070111150414.2a7edd24@banea.int.addix.net> Message-ID: <45A64518.4070200@fedoraproject.org> Ralf Ertzinger wrote: > Hi. > > On Thu, 11 Jan 2007 19:23:56 +0530, Rahul Sundaram wrote: > >> You dont have to do that. Use the skip dependency plugin in Fedora >> Extras > > Which, sometimes, makes quite weird decisions, in my experience. Bug reports? Rahul From giallu at gmail.com Thu Jan 11 14:30:45 2007 From: giallu at gmail.com (Gianluca Sforna) Date: Thu, 11 Jan 2007 15:30:45 +0100 Subject: Fedora 7 vs 6 installation - remove final next In-Reply-To: <45A62092.8050203@iinet.net.au> References: <002801c7352d$84cebc10$020aa8c0@a18> <45A62092.8050203@iinet.net.au> Message-ID: On 1/11/07, David Timms wrote: > https://bugzilla.redhat.com/bugzilla/show_bug.cgi?id=177391 > > There was no real discussion at the time in saying wontfix. I still > think that this is essential to nppo {not iss people off}. If anybody > really wants and has a need (anaconda developers?) to display such a > check box, it would make sense to have a checkbox on the previous screen > "wait after resolving package selections", which would be by default not > ticked. > > The only reason I can think of to not immediately go ahead after package > selection is if the package resolution was not solvable -> then you > would show a screen informing our user of the fact. > > Is there anyone can give a good reason for requiring the user to wait > 2-5-10 minutes for package resolution to complete, and then actually ask > the user if they want to "next" what they have already said they want to > do, namely install fedora ?? +1 The time for deposolving will be probably shorter in F7 (AFAIK there was a bug in yum slowing down that phase), bu I also think that "Next" should really go away. IMO, not even the checkbox is needed. From fedora at leemhuis.info Thu Jan 11 14:42:07 2007 From: fedora at leemhuis.info (Thorsten Leemhuis) Date: Thu, 11 Jan 2007 15:42:07 +0100 Subject: proposal: mailing list reorganization In-Reply-To: <1168460214.3393.2.camel@rousalka.dyndns.org> References: <45A52F85.5020408@leemhuis.info> <1168456838.16118.4.camel@rousalka.dyndns.org> <45A53CFA.500@fedoraproject.org> <1168458396.16118.6.camel@rousalka.dyndns.org> <1168458535.3618.50.camel@zod.rchland.ibm.com> <1168460214.3393.2.camel@rousalka.dyndns.org> Message-ID: <45A64CBF.1050406@leemhuis.info> Nicolas Mailhot schrieb: > Le mercredi 10 janvier 2007 ? 13:48 -0600, Josh Boyer a ?crit : >> On Wed, 2007-01-10 at 20:46 +0100, Nicolas Mailhot wrote: >>> Le jeudi 11 janvier 2007 ? 00:52 +0530, Rahul Sundaram a ?crit : >>>> Its even mentioned clearly in the wiki link that Thorsten posted. Do >>>> read it completely first. >>> Not to this level of detail. >>> And I care about this level of detail, because that's where we have >>> subtle variations right now. >> You realize that it'll break any existing filters if we go off renaming >> things right? > The other renamings will break filters anyway. There's only one thing > worse than incompatible changes ? halfway-incompatible changes. Well, there are so many lists with "-list" postfix. Renaming all of them just for the sake of being consistent with all those others that don't have a "list" postfix is IMHO not worth the trouble for the users. CU thl From fedora at leemhuis.info Thu Jan 11 14:48:19 2007 From: fedora at leemhuis.info (Thorsten Leemhuis) Date: Thu, 11 Jan 2007 15:48:19 +0100 Subject: proposal: mailing list reorganization In-Reply-To: <8CDC030D-B10D-4EB3-A583-9FEA1685E0D5@dev.intechnology.co.uk> References: <45A52F85.5020408@leemhuis.info> <1168458396.16118.6.camel@rousalka.dyndns.org> <1168458535.3618.50.camel@zod.rchland.ibm.com> <200701101456.33761.jkeating@redhat.com> <8CDC030D-B10D-4EB3-A583-9FEA1685E0D5@dev.intechnology.co.uk> Message-ID: <45A64E33.50600@leemhuis.info> Nigel Metheringham schrieb: > On 10 Jan 2007, at 19:56, Jesse Keating wrote: >> Not to mention that one can't really easily "rename" a list. http://www.python.org/cgi-bin/faqw-mm.py?req=show&file=faq04.070.htp sound not to hard IMHO. And I think such a renaming doesn't make us a spam company if it's announced properly in advance *and* if that list is the only direct successor for the old list. Other opinions? >> Most >> often it is >> close one list, open a new one, mass subscribe. Its that last step >> that gets >> our IS in a tiff, as mass subscribing without end user consent is >> tatamount >> to spam, and we REALLY don't want to be a spam company. > Send out (Mailman) invites rather than subscribing people. Has the > advantage of doing a list prune at the same time, and the target > audience ought to be up to handling the idea. Would people prefer that over a rename? BTW, we'll probably use the invite feature for lists that have no direct successor. CU thl From fedora at leemhuis.info Thu Jan 11 14:55:50 2007 From: fedora at leemhuis.info (Thorsten Leemhuis) Date: Thu, 11 Jan 2007 15:55:50 +0100 Subject: proposal: mailing list reorganization In-Reply-To: <1168466132.3113.244.camel@erato.phig.org> References: <45A52F85.5020408@leemhuis.info> <1168466132.3113.244.camel@erato.phig.org> Message-ID: <45A64FF6.70401@leemhuis.info> Karsten Wade schrieb: > On Wed, 2007-01-10 at 19:25 +0100, Thorsten Leemhuis wrote: >> The other goal is to get rid of those lists: >> * fedora-dsco-list > Still no, leave that list as-is, thanks. We'll let the next FDSCo > decide to keep or vaporize. Sorry, removed it from the proposal. I was told it was mostly decided already to get rid of it. CU thl From nicolas.mailhot at laposte.net Thu Jan 11 15:01:31 2007 From: nicolas.mailhot at laposte.net (Nicolas Mailhot) Date: Thu, 11 Jan 2007 16:01:31 +0100 (CET) Subject: proposal: mailing list reorganization In-Reply-To: <45A64CBF.1050406@leemhuis.info> References: <45A52F85.5020408@leemhuis.info> <1168456838.16118.4.camel@rousalka.dyndns.org> <45A53CFA.500@fedoraproject.org> <1168458396.16118.6.camel@rousalka.dyndns.org> <1168458535.3618.50.camel@zod.rchland.ibm.com> <1168460214.3393.2.camel@rousalka.dyndns.org> <45A64CBF.1050406@leemhuis.info> Message-ID: <56968.192.54.193.51.1168527691.squirrel@rousalka.dyndns.org> Le Jeu 11 janvier 2007 15:42, Thorsten Leemhuis a ?crit : > Nicolas Mailhot schrieb: >> Le mercredi 10 janvier 2007 ? 13:48 -0600, Josh Boyer a ?crit : >>> On Wed, 2007-01-10 at 20:46 +0100, Nicolas Mailhot wrote: >>>> Le jeudi 11 janvier 2007 ? 00:52 +0530, Rahul Sundaram a ?crit : >>>>> Its even mentioned clearly in the wiki link that Thorsten posted. Do >>>>> read it completely first. >>>> Not to this level of detail. >>>> And I care about this level of detail, because that's where we have >>>> subtle variations right now. >>> You realize that it'll break any existing filters if we go off renaming >>> things right? >> The other renamings will break filters anyway. There's only one thing >> worse than incompatible changes ? halfway-incompatible changes. > > Well, there are so many lists with "-list" postfix. Renaming all of them > just for the sake of being consistent with all those others that don't > have a "list" postfix is IMHO not worth the trouble for the users. It is worth the trouble. And I write it as someone with more -list than non-list subscriptions, who will have a merry time during the change. I'll gladly sacrifice my setup to the consistency altar. If you want to go the "minimum changes" route I'll insist to have all lists grow a -list postfix, non-postfixed lists are the oddball here ;) Please do it right, or don't do it at all. -- Nicolas Mailhot From thias at spam.spam.spam.spam.spam.spam.spam.egg.and.spam.freshrpms.net Thu Jan 11 15:03:49 2007 From: thias at spam.spam.spam.spam.spam.spam.spam.egg.and.spam.freshrpms.net (Matthias Saou) Date: Thu, 11 Jan 2007 16:03:49 +0100 Subject: proposal: mailing list reorganization In-Reply-To: <45A52F85.5020408@leemhuis.info> References: <45A52F85.5020408@leemhuis.info> Message-ID: <20070111160349.096ce5de@python3.es.egwn.lan> Thorsten Leemhuis wrote : > Find below a proposal for a mailing list reorganization the board asked > me to work on. One question : Why are all Fedora lists @redhat.com and not @fedoraproject.org? With the Red Hat vs. Fedora infrastructure split, I fail to see the rationale behind having all Fedora mailing lists have @redhat.com addresses. One suggestion : From a sysadmin point of view, I've always found it a lot more easy to isolate mailing-list traffic from all other mail traffic, typically by having all lists be @lists.domain instead of "plain" @domain, and have lists.domain's MX point to a mail server setup only for mailing-lists. This also eases web-based Mailman list creation, as it then "just works" with no external calls and such. My suggestion here would be to create all new lists as listname at lists.fedoraproject.org and eventually migrate the existing ones, for which it makes sense to do so, later on. Matthias -- Clean custom Red Hat Linux rpm packages : http://freshrpms.net/ Fedora Core release 6 (Zod) - Linux kernel 2.6.19-1.2888.fc6 Load : 0.31 0.29 0.29 From fedora at leemhuis.info Thu Jan 11 15:05:18 2007 From: fedora at leemhuis.info (Thorsten Leemhuis) Date: Thu, 11 Jan 2007 16:05:18 +0100 Subject: proposal: mailing list reorganization In-Reply-To: <20070111044739.GA2187@nostromo.devel.redhat.com> References: <45A52F85.5020408@leemhuis.info> <1168467152.3113.255.camel@erato.phig.org> <1168467472.4632.61.camel@aglarond.local> <20070111044739.GA2187@nostromo.devel.redhat.com> Message-ID: <45A6522E.1010005@leemhuis.info> Bill Nottingham schrieb: > Jeremy Katz (katzj at redhat.com) said: >> With the topics support in mailman and using them, it becomes "subscribe >> to fedora-cvs-commits and set your topic preference to Docs". And then >> we ensure that docs commits are the ones with said topic set. So >> there's no need for filtering except at subscription time. > However, I'm not sure I'd want to add that extra hurdle - right now, > you can do all the subscribing without ever visiting the web site - > with this, you *have* to go into the mailman interface. > > Devils advocate - if we really want this, why wouldn't wiki changes fall > into this list, aside from the infrastructure not really allowing for it? > > If nothing else, walling off the fire hose of package commits from > other commits would be nice. fedora-commits-packages and fedora-commits then? CU thl From fedora at leemhuis.info Thu Jan 11 15:10:29 2007 From: fedora at leemhuis.info (Thorsten Leemhuis) Date: Thu, 11 Jan 2007 16:10:29 +0100 Subject: proposal: mailing list reorganization In-Reply-To: <56968.192.54.193.51.1168527691.squirrel@rousalka.dyndns.org> References: <45A52F85.5020408@leemhuis.info> <1168456838.16118.4.camel@rousalka.dyndns.org> <45A53CFA.500@fedoraproject.org> <1168458396.16118.6.camel@rousalka.dyndns.org> <1168458535.3618.50.camel@zod.rchland.ibm.com> <1168460214.3393.2.camel@rousalka.dyndns.org> <45A64CBF.1050406@leemhuis.info> <56968.192.54.193.51.1168527691.squirrel@rousalka.dyndns.org> Message-ID: <45A65365.6080305@leemhuis.info> Nicolas Mailhot schrieb: > Le Jeu 11 janvier 2007 15:42, Thorsten Leemhuis a ?crit : >> Nicolas Mailhot schrieb: >>> Le mercredi 10 janvier 2007 ? 13:48 -0600, Josh Boyer a ?crit : >>>> On Wed, 2007-01-10 at 20:46 +0100, Nicolas Mailhot wrote: >>>>> Le jeudi 11 janvier 2007 ? 00:52 +0530, Rahul Sundaram a ?crit : >>>>>> Its even mentioned clearly in the wiki link that Thorsten posted. Do >>>>>> read it completely first. >>>>> Not to this level of detail. >>>>> And I care about this level of detail, because that's where we have >>>>> subtle variations right now. >>>> You realize that it'll break any existing filters if we go off renaming >>>> things right? >>> The other renamings will break filters anyway. There's only one thing >>> worse than incompatible changes ? halfway-incompatible changes. >> Well, there are so many lists with "-list" postfix. Renaming all of them >> just for the sake of being consistent with all those others that don't >> have a "list" postfix is IMHO not worth the trouble for the users. > It is worth the trouble. Do others agree with that? (Send me private yes/no if you don't want to spam the list with "mee, too"-mails !) > And I write it as someone with more -list than > non-list subscriptions, who will have a merry time during the change. I'll > gladly sacrifice my setup to the consistency altar. > > If you want to go the "minimum changes" route I'll insist to have all > lists grow a -list postfix, non-postfixed lists are the oddball here ;) I don't care much about to -list or not to -list, but having it consistent might be good. I'm taking opinions on that, too (in private or on the list). CU thl From ajackson at redhat.com Thu Jan 11 15:05:49 2007 From: ajackson at redhat.com (Adam Jackson) Date: Thu, 11 Jan 2007 10:05:49 -0500 Subject: Fedora 7 vs 6 installation In-Reply-To: <20070111103455.569f5de3@banea.int.addix.net> References: <002801c7352d$84cebc10$020aa8c0@a18> <20070111103455.569f5de3@banea.int.addix.net> Message-ID: <1168527949.7683.700.camel@localhost.localdomain> On Thu, 2007-01-11 at 10:34 +0100, Ralf Ertzinger wrote: > Hi. > > On Wed, 10 Jan 2007 20:06:41 -0700, Jerry Williams wrote: > > > The other thing that kind of bugs me is the resolution that is used > > for the display. The default seems way high. > > I am thinking that it would be better to start with 800x600 or > > 1024x768 and then let the user bump it up it they would like. > > I seem to remember that the FC6 installer came up with 800x600 on > my laptop. It certainly should. The heuristic here is: native driver at 800x600, then native driver at whatever it'll give you, then vesa at 800x600. But the UI is only 800x600 pixels no matter what. - ajax From fedora at leemhuis.info Thu Jan 11 15:14:54 2007 From: fedora at leemhuis.info (Thorsten Leemhuis) Date: Thu, 11 Jan 2007 16:14:54 +0100 Subject: Fedora 7 vs 6 installation - remove final next In-Reply-To: References: <002801c7352d$84cebc10$020aa8c0@a18> <45A62092.8050203@iinet.net.au> Message-ID: <45A6546E.2060003@leemhuis.info> Gianluca Sforna schrieb: > On 1/11/07, David Timms wrote: >> https://bugzilla.redhat.com/bugzilla/show_bug.cgi?id=177391 >> There was no real discussion at the time in saying wontfix. I still >> think that this is essential to nppo {not iss people off}. If anybody >> really wants and has a need (anaconda developers?) to display such a >> check box, it would make sense to have a checkbox on the previous screen >> "wait after resolving package selections", which would be by default not >> ticked. >> The only reason I can think of to not immediately go ahead after package >> selection is if the package resolution was not solvable -> then you >> would show a screen informing our user of the fact. >> Is there anyone can give a good reason for requiring the user to wait >> 2-5-10 minutes for package resolution to complete, and then actually ask >> the user if they want to "next" what they have already said they want to >> do, namely install fedora ?? > +1 > The time for deposolving will be probably shorter in F7 (AFAIK there > was a bug in yum slowing down that phase), bu I also think that "Next" > should really go away. +1 > IMO, not even the checkbox is needed. Having a "next" somewhere as the final question that means "I'll really start now and thus now might format you hard drive after you clicked next" is IMHO fine and needed, but yes, the current place is annoying. CU thl From fedora at leemhuis.info Thu Jan 11 15:25:08 2007 From: fedora at leemhuis.info (Thorsten Leemhuis) Date: Thu, 11 Jan 2007 16:25:08 +0100 Subject: move lists to lists.fedoraproject.org? (was: Re: proposal: mailing list reorganization) In-Reply-To: <20070111160349.096ce5de@python3.es.egwn.lan> References: <45A52F85.5020408@leemhuis.info> <20070111160349.096ce5de@python3.es.egwn.lan> Message-ID: <45A656D4.7080609@leemhuis.info> Matthias Saou schrieb: > Thorsten Leemhuis wrote : >> Find below a proposal for a mailing list reorganization the board asked >> me to work on. > One question : Why are all Fedora lists @redhat.com and not > @fedoraproject.org? Probably because we had no machine like that when we set up the first mailing lists. It was discussed once to move all the list to something like lists.fedoraproject.org (can't remember when and where -- a year ago on fedora-devel or fedora-infrastrcture? maybe someone else might remember), but it was decided back then that it's to much work for a small gain. Do we want to revisit that? Then the mailing list reorganization suddenly becomes a really big project. That would have some benefits: * a much clearer differentiation between Fedora Project and Red Hat * more control over the lists; from what I've heard between the words by some people it seems to be a bit problematic to interact with the Red Hat IS that maintains the lists. > [...] > My suggestion here would be to create all new lists as > listname at lists.fedoraproject.org and eventually migrate the existing > ones, for which it makes sense to do so, later on. If others agree with that I'm for it, too. But I'll be a lot of work. Then I want help ;-) CU thl From skvidal at linux.duke.edu Thu Jan 11 15:28:10 2007 From: skvidal at linux.duke.edu (seth vidal) Date: Thu, 11 Jan 2007 10:28:10 -0500 Subject: proposal: mailing list reorganization In-Reply-To: <20070111160349.096ce5de@python3.es.egwn.lan> References: <45A52F85.5020408@leemhuis.info> <20070111160349.096ce5de@python3.es.egwn.lan> Message-ID: <1168529290.7938.5.camel@cutter> On Thu, 2007-01-11 at 16:03 +0100, Matthias Saou wrote: > Thorsten Leemhuis wrote : > > > Find below a proposal for a mailing list reorganization the board asked > > me to work on. > > One question : Why are all Fedora lists @redhat.com and not > @fedoraproject.org? > > With the Red Hat vs. Fedora infrastructure split, I fail to see the > rationale behind having all Fedora mailing lists have @redhat.com > addresses. > > One suggestion : From a sysadmin point of view, I've always found it a > lot more easy to isolate mailing-list traffic from all other mail > traffic, typically by having all lists be @lists.domain instead of > "plain" @domain, and have lists.domain's MX point to a mail server > setup only for mailing-lists. This also eases web-based Mailman list > creation, as it then "just works" with no external calls and such. > > My suggestion here would be to create all new lists as > listname at lists.fedoraproject.org and eventually migrate the existing > ones, for which it makes sense to do so, later on. > +1 It makes a nice clean break for the mailing list changeover. -sv From fedora at leemhuis.info Thu Jan 11 15:32:21 2007 From: fedora at leemhuis.info (Thorsten Leemhuis) Date: Thu, 11 Jan 2007 16:32:21 +0100 Subject: move lists to lists.fedoraproject.org? In-Reply-To: <45A656D4.7080609@leemhuis.info> References: <45A52F85.5020408@leemhuis.info> <20070111160349.096ce5de@python3.es.egwn.lan> <45A656D4.7080609@leemhuis.info> Message-ID: <45A65885.8080203@leemhuis.info> Thorsten Leemhuis schrieb: > It was discussed once to move all the list to something like > lists.fedoraproject.org (can't remember when and where -- a year ago on > fedora-devel or fedora-infrastrcture? maybe someone else might > remember) I should have asked google directly; thread starts here: http://www.redhat.com/archives/fedora-marketing-list/2005-December/msg00003.html CU thl From notting at redhat.com Thu Jan 11 15:57:17 2007 From: notting at redhat.com (Bill Nottingham) Date: Thu, 11 Jan 2007 10:57:17 -0500 Subject: proposal: mailing list reorganization In-Reply-To: <45A6522E.1010005@leemhuis.info> References: <45A52F85.5020408@leemhuis.info> <1168467152.3113.255.camel@erato.phig.org> <1168467472.4632.61.camel@aglarond.local> <20070111044739.GA2187@nostromo.devel.redhat.com> <45A6522E.1010005@leemhuis.info> Message-ID: <20070111155717.GC8108@nostromo.devel.redhat.com> Thorsten Leemhuis (fedora at leemhuis.info) said: > > Devils advocate - if we really want this, why wouldn't wiki changes fall > > into this list, aside from the infrastructure not really allowing for it? > > > > If nothing else, walling off the fire hose of package commits from > > other commits would be nice. > > fedora-commits-packages and fedora-commits then? Possibly. Actually, to bring up a relevant other point - one thing we're planning with the SCM merge is that each maintainer will *automatically* get commits mailed for their packages, outside of the full commits list. This might make fedora-commits-packages (or fedora-package-commits - that reads better to me) 'more' optional. Bill From sundaram at fedoraproject.org Thu Jan 11 16:14:31 2007 From: sundaram at fedoraproject.org (Rahul Sundaram) Date: Thu, 11 Jan 2007 21:44:31 +0530 Subject: proposal: mailing list reorganization In-Reply-To: <1168529290.7938.5.camel@cutter> References: <45A52F85.5020408@leemhuis.info> <20070111160349.096ce5de@python3.es.egwn.lan> <1168529290.7938.5.camel@cutter> Message-ID: <45A66267.1080907@fedoraproject.org> seth vidal wrote: > On Thu, 2007-01-11 at 16:03 +0100, Matthias Saou wrote: >> My suggestion here would be to create all new lists as >> listname at lists.fedoraproject.org and eventually migrate the existing >> ones, for which it makes sense to do so, later on. >> > > +1 > > It makes a nice clean break for the mailing list changeover. > > -sv Agreed. My take on this is at http://www.redhat.com/archives/fedora-marketing-list/2005-December/msg00017.html Rahul From giallu at gmail.com Thu Jan 11 16:21:46 2007 From: giallu at gmail.com (Gianluca Sforna) Date: Thu, 11 Jan 2007 17:21:46 +0100 Subject: rawhide report: 20070110 changes In-Reply-To: <1168456128.25637.18.camel@home> References: <200701101100.l0AB08Yl011093@hs20-bc2-6.build.redhat.com> <1168456128.25637.18.camel@home> Message-ID: On 1/10/07, Behdad Esfahbod wrote: > On Wed, 2007-01-10 at 12:53 +0100, Gianluca Sforna wrote: > > > > Is the patented hinting algorithm still disabled in freetype? > > If so, was an audit performed after OIN creation to determine if it's > > now possible to enable it? > > Yes, it's disabled still. We'll probably wait until that patent expires > (~2010). How does OIN affect real genuine patents with no prior art? > OIN is to counter-attack rather bogus patent claims, not to allow us > violate whatever patent we want. MP3 comes to mind first. Thanks for the clarification. Of course I am not proposing to violate any valid patent here. I probably did not understand the goals of the OIN and how its portfolio would be leveraged. I thought OIN could be also used for some patent swap deal, but this is probably not possibile. /me just hates patents on software and hopes they will be banned one day... From sundaram at fedoraproject.org Thu Jan 11 16:22:40 2007 From: sundaram at fedoraproject.org (Rahul Sundaram) Date: Thu, 11 Jan 2007 21:52:40 +0530 Subject: rawhide report: 20070110 changes In-Reply-To: References: <200701101100.l0AB08Yl011093@hs20-bc2-6.build.redhat.com> <1168456128.25637.18.camel@home> Message-ID: <45A66450.3020707@fedoraproject.org> Gianluca Sforna wrote: > Thanks for the clarification. Of course I am not proposing to violate > any valid patent here. > I probably did not understand the goals of the OIN and how its > portfolio would be leveraged. I thought OIN could be also used for > some patent swap deal, but this is probably not possibile. See http://www.redhat.com/magazine/014dec05/features/oin/ > /me just hates patents on software and hopes they will be banned one day... Yes. Thats obviously the long term desirable solution but meanwhile things like OIN helps deal with the current reality. Rahul From mmcgrath at fedoraproject.org Thu Jan 11 16:30:44 2007 From: mmcgrath at fedoraproject.org (Mike McGrath) Date: Thu, 11 Jan 2007 10:30:44 -0600 Subject: move lists to lists.fedoraproject.org? (was: Re: proposal: mailing list reorganization) In-Reply-To: <45A656D4.7080609@leemhuis.info> References: <45A52F85.5020408@leemhuis.info> <20070111160349.096ce5de@python3.es.egwn.lan> <45A656D4.7080609@leemhuis.info> Message-ID: <3237e4410701110830h5f696bfes133ec3452decd551@mail.gmail.com> On 1/11/07, Thorsten Leemhuis wrote: > Matthias Saou schrieb: > Do we want to revisit that? Then the mailing list reorganization > suddenly becomes a really big project. Would it be worth it to do a clean cutover? Creating all new lists and disabling the old ones. -Mike From thias at spam.spam.spam.spam.spam.spam.spam.egg.and.spam.freshrpms.net Thu Jan 11 17:23:13 2007 From: thias at spam.spam.spam.spam.spam.spam.spam.egg.and.spam.freshrpms.net (Matthias Saou) Date: Thu, 11 Jan 2007 18:23:13 +0100 Subject: move lists to lists.fedoraproject.org? (was: Re: proposal: mailing list reorganization) In-Reply-To: <45A656D4.7080609@leemhuis.info> References: <45A52F85.5020408@leemhuis.info> <20070111160349.096ce5de@python3.es.egwn.lan> <45A656D4.7080609@leemhuis.info> Message-ID: <20070111182313.0c6f667b@python3.es.egwn.lan> Thorsten Leemhuis wrote : > > [...] > > My suggestion here would be to create all new lists as > > listname at lists.fedoraproject.org and eventually migrate the existing > > ones, for which it makes sense to do so, later on. > > If others agree with that I'm for it, too. But I'll be a lot of work. > Then I want help ;-) For any sysadmin tasks, just poke me if any help is needed :-) Matthias -- Clean custom Red Hat Linux rpm packages : http://freshrpms.net/ Fedora Core release 6 (Zod) - Linux kernel 2.6.19-1.2888.fc6 Load : 2.22 2.11 1.43 From bruno at wolff.to Thu Jan 11 17:44:51 2007 From: bruno at wolff.to (Bruno Wolff III) Date: Thu, 11 Jan 2007 11:44:51 -0600 Subject: Fedora 7 In-Reply-To: <200701111251.l0BCpqmh006826@laptop13.inf.utfsm.cl> References: <16de708d0701101746t4440d4f3o55c5450cc5957584@mail.gmail.com> <200701111251.l0BCpqmh006826@laptop13.inf.utfsm.cl> Message-ID: <20070111174451.GA32374@wolff.to> On Thu, Jan 11, 2007 at 09:51:52 -0300, "Horst H. von Brand" wrote: > Arthur Pemberton wrote: > > > > 2-3 hours later I finally found out that the card needed firmware, not > > available in extras or core, and just barely mentioned on the driver's > > author's page. > > > > It would have been nice to know that the kernel module is Fedora > > compatible, but the firmware (to make the device work) is not. > > If the /author/ doesn't tell you that, how are the Fedora folks to know > about that minor detail? OpenBSD might have information on whether or not the firmware has a license that permits redistribution. If it does, then you can probably get it from them if it isn't in the Fedora driver. If it doesn't then Fedora shouldn't have it and you will want to see if the manufacturer distributes it under acceptible terms from their website. From jwilliam at xmission.com Thu Jan 11 17:45:05 2007 From: jwilliam at xmission.com (Jerry Williams) Date: Thu, 11 Jan 2007 10:45:05 -0700 Subject: Fedora 7 vs 6 installation In-Reply-To: <1168527949.7683.700.camel@localhost.localdomain> References: <002801c7352d$84cebc10$020aa8c0@a18><20070111103455.569f5de3@banea.int.addix.net> <1168527949.7683.700.camel@localhost.localdomain> Message-ID: <001201c735a8$3a871e60$020aa8c0@a18> > -----Original Message----- > From: fedora-devel-list-bounces at redhat.com [mailto:fedora-devel-list- > bounces at redhat.com] On Behalf Of Adam Jackson > Sent: Thursday, January 11, 2007 8:06 AM > To: Development discussions related to Fedora Core > Subject: Re: Fedora 7 vs 6 installation > > On Thu, 2007-01-11 at 10:34 +0100, Ralf Ertzinger wrote: > > Hi. > > > > On Wed, 10 Jan 2007 20:06:41 -0700, Jerry Williams wrote: > > > > > The other thing that kind of bugs me is the resolution that is used > > > for the display. The default seems way high. > > > I am thinking that it would be better to start with 800x600 or > > > 1024x768 and then let the user bump it up it they would like. > > > > I seem to remember that the FC6 installer came up with 800x600 on > > my laptop. > > It certainly should. > > The heuristic here is: native driver at 800x600, then native driver at > whatever it'll give you, then vesa at 800x600. But the UI is only > 800x600 pixels no matter what. > > - ajax > I want to thank everyone for there comments! I have learned a few things from them. I am trying to remember what really happened with the resolution. I am not sure about the second half of the install if it was more than 800x600 or not. But I do know that the login screen was way over 1024x768 and once I was logged in it didn't change. Had nice little white box in the middle of the screen and menus where kind of a guessing game. From jwilliam at xmission.com Thu Jan 11 17:52:29 2007 From: jwilliam at xmission.com (Jerry Williams) Date: Thu, 11 Jan 2007 10:52:29 -0700 Subject: Fedora 7 vs 6 installation - disk layout In-Reply-To: <45A6546E.2060003@leemhuis.info> References: <002801c7352d$84cebc10$020aa8c0@a18> <45A62092.8050203@iinet.net.au> <45A6546E.2060003@leemhuis.info> Message-ID: <001301c735a9$4340e4e0$020aa8c0@a18> > -----Original Message----- > From: fedora-devel-list-bounces at redhat.com [mailto:fedora-devel-list- > bounces at redhat.com] On Behalf Of Thorsten Leemhuis > Sent: Thursday, January 11, 2007 8:15 AM > To: Development discussions related to Fedora Core > Subject: Re: Fedora 7 vs 6 installation - remove final next > > Gianluca Sforna schrieb: > > On 1/11/07, David Timms wrote: > >> https://bugzilla.redhat.com/bugzilla/show_bug.cgi?id=177391 > >> There was no real discussion at the time in saying wontfix. I still > >> think that this is essential to nppo {not iss people off}. If anybody > >> really wants and has a need (anaconda developers?) to display such a > >> check box, it would make sense to have a checkbox on the previous > screen > >> "wait after resolving package selections", which would be by default > not > >> ticked. > >> The only reason I can think of to not immediately go ahead after > package > >> selection is if the package resolution was not solvable -> then you > >> would show a screen informing our user of the fact. > >> Is there anyone can give a good reason for requiring the user to wait > >> 2-5-10 minutes for package resolution to complete, and then actually > ask > >> the user if they want to "next" what they have already said they want > to > >> do, namely install fedora ?? > > +1 > > The time for deposolving will be probably shorter in F7 (AFAIK there > > was a bug in yum slowing down that phase), bu I also think that "Next" > > should really go away. > > +1 > > > IMO, not even the checkbox is needed. > > Having a "next" somewhere as the final question that means "I'll really > start now and thus now might format you hard drive after you clicked > next" is IMHO fine and needed, but yes, the current place is annoying. > > CU > thl Now that you mention it there is another option that I would like to see with the disk layout. A lot of the times I am doing a new install over a previous version of Fedora. So it would be nice as an option to leave the partitions alone, but format them and mount them in the same place. I know that it shows me the previous mount point for normal partitions, but I think LVM doesn't. From jkeating at redhat.com Thu Jan 11 18:54:03 2007 From: jkeating at redhat.com (Jesse Keating) Date: Thu, 11 Jan 2007 13:54:03 -0500 Subject: Fedora 7 vs 6 installation In-Reply-To: <001201c735a8$3a871e60$020aa8c0@a18> References: <002801c7352d$84cebc10$020aa8c0@a18> <1168527949.7683.700.camel@localhost.localdomain> <001201c735a8$3a871e60$020aa8c0@a18> Message-ID: <200701111354.03254.jkeating@redhat.com> On Thursday 11 January 2007 12:45, Jerry Williams wrote: > I am trying to remember what really happened with the resolution. > I am not sure about the second half of the install if it was more than > 800x600 or not. ?But I do know that the login screen was way over 1024x768 > and once I was logged in it didn't change. ?Had nice little white box in > the middle of the screen and menus where kind of a guessing game. That's not the installer, that's the installed system where X figures out your card and your monitor and chooses the highest usable resolution between the two and uses it. -- Jesse Keating Release Engineer: Fedora -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 189 bytes Desc: not available URL: From tswan at idigx.com Thu Jan 11 20:07:23 2007 From: tswan at idigx.com (Thomas Swan) Date: Thu, 11 Jan 2007 14:07:23 -0600 Subject: FC6 on a HP DC7700 In-Reply-To: <45A5F9BD.3070708@crc.dk> References: <45A58C61.3080206@idigx.com> <45A5EA62.5080901@crc.dk> <45A5F9BD.3070708@crc.dk> Message-ID: <45A698FB.3000801@idigx.com> Mogens Kjaer wrote: > Mogens Kjaer wrote: >> Thomas Swan wrote: >> ... >>> On FC6 2.16.18-2869: >>> # time ( let X=0; while [ $X -lt 1000 ] ; do let X=$X+1 ; done ) >>> real 0m8.631s >>> user 0m8.385s >>> sys 0m0.203s >> >> This is not my experience: >> >> On FC6 x86_64 2.6.18-1.2869.fc6: >> >> real 0m0.014s >> user 0m0.013s >> sys 0m0.000s >> >> Note, this is the 64 bit FC6, acpi=off. >> >> It won't boot without acpi=off, BIOS >> is v1.06 > > I tried installing FC6 i386 on this box: > > 2.6.18-1.2869.fc6: > > real 0m0.017s > user 0m0.014s > sys 0m0.003s > > It also needs acpi=off in order to boot. > BIOS is still v1.06. > > Mogens > All of our HP DC7700 (1.86GHz processors) are having this problem. It will boot with no options to the kernel and with acpi=off. Defaults are turned on in the bios. After about 48 hours of uptime the speed improves by a little. 7 seconds instead of 8-10 to run the little test. Both on 64bit and 32bit FC6 installations. From dtimms at iinet.net.au Thu Jan 11 21:01:42 2007 From: dtimms at iinet.net.au (David Timms) Date: Fri, 12 Jan 2007 08:01:42 +1100 Subject: Fedora 7 vs 6 installation - disk layout In-Reply-To: <001301c735a9$4340e4e0$020aa8c0@a18> References: <002801c7352d$84cebc10$020aa8c0@a18> <45A62092.8050203@iinet.net.au> <45A6546E.2060003@leemhuis.info> <001301c735a9$4340e4e0$020aa8c0@a18> Message-ID: <45A6A5B6.8080806@iinet.net.au> Jerry Williams wrote: > Now that you mention it there is another option that I would like to see > with the disk layout. A lot of the times I am doing a new install over a > previous version of Fedora. So it would be nice as an option to leave the > partitions alone, but format them and mount them in the same place. > I know that it shows me the previous mount point for normal partitions, but > I think LVM doesn't. From memory that is correct. My solution was to name my lvs: LogVolSlash, LogVolHome etc, because the previous lv name is displayed, and can then be assigned by the user in the UI. Since anaconda {partitioning} can use the old partition labels to display to the user, it would make sense to click a button to say do it {assigning existing labeled partitions to the same named mount points}, rather than requiring user to click through a heap of things. If that made sense, the same should be possible with the lv names {::if:: they were decently named}. DaveT. From bkonrath at redhat.com Thu Jan 11 21:04:45 2007 From: bkonrath at redhat.com (Ben Konrath) Date: Thu, 11 Jan 2007 16:04:45 -0500 Subject: Help Wanted: Fedora Eclipse Message-ID: <1168549485.3546.14.camel@plug> Hi, I just created an entry in the Fedora Wiki for Eclipse packaging tasks: http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/EclipseHelpWanted I separated the list into packaging oriented tasks and development oriented tasks to help people find the kind of task they are interested in helping with. I put my name beside the tasks that I'm planning to work on in the next little while and I encourage interested people to do the same. I will be updating this list regularly so that stale tasks don't hang around too long. Don't hesitate to contact me if you are interested in helping with any of these tasks or have any questions. Thanks, Ben From giallu at gmail.com Thu Jan 11 22:19:10 2007 From: giallu at gmail.com (Gianluca Sforna) Date: Thu, 11 Jan 2007 23:19:10 +0100 Subject: FC6 on a HP DC7700 In-Reply-To: <45A698FB.3000801@idigx.com> References: <45A58C61.3080206@idigx.com> <45A5EA62.5080901@crc.dk> <45A5F9BD.3070708@crc.dk> <45A698FB.3000801@idigx.com> Message-ID: On 1/11/07, Thomas Swan wrote: > Mogens Kjaer wrote: > > Mogens Kjaer wrote: > >> Thomas Swan wrote: > >> ... > >>> On FC6 2.16.18-2869: > >>> # time ( let X=0; while [ $X -lt 1000 ] ; do let X=$X+1 ; done ) > >>> real 0m8.631s > >>> user 0m8.385s > >>> sys 0m0.203s > >> > >> This is not my experience: > >> > >> On FC6 x86_64 2.6.18-1.2869.fc6: > >> > >> real 0m0.014s > >> user 0m0.013s > >> sys 0m0.000s > >> > >> Note, this is the 64 bit FC6, acpi=off. > >> > >> It won't boot without acpi=off, BIOS > >> is v1.06 > > > > I tried installing FC6 i386 on this box: > > > > 2.6.18-1.2869.fc6: > > > > real 0m0.017s > > user 0m0.014s > > sys 0m0.003s > > > > It also needs acpi=off in order to boot. > > BIOS is still v1.06. > > > > Mogens > > > All of our HP DC7700 (1.86GHz processors) are having this problem. It > will boot with no options to the kernel and with acpi=off. Defaults > are turned on in the bios. After about 48 hours of uptime the speed > improves by a little. 7 seconds instead of 8-10 to run the little > test. Both on 64bit and 32bit FC6 installations. > Note for myself: do not buy anything from HP in the future, unless it is not listed in http://www.hp.com/wwsolutions/linux/certifications.html From dlutter at redhat.com Thu Jan 11 22:52:46 2007 From: dlutter at redhat.com (David Lutterkort) Date: Thu, 11 Jan 2007 22:52:46 +0000 Subject: F7 KDE spin In-Reply-To: <6c3f5e6c0701110150k4faa182fyd016deaf2b9bf3d7@mail.gmail.com> References: <45A2BABB.2090902@math.unl.edu> <13dbfe4f0701091106w1553b24fv28b7fcb5f5bb64ca@mail.gmail.com> <1168432885.16494.31.camel@gilboa-work-dev.localdomain> <200701100930.42922.lamont@gurulabs.com> <6c3f5e6c0701110150k4faa182fyd016deaf2b9bf3d7@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <1168555967.21083.25.camel@localhost.localdomain> On Thu, 2007-01-11 at 04:50 -0500, Andrew Parker wrote: > On 1/10/07, Lamont Peterson wrote: > > Yes you can, just copy /var/cache/yum/ to a USB keychain drive (or SD card, > > or ...) or burn it to a disc. However, because the cache will change almost > > daily, this could get tedious. > > Maybe its just my setups, but my /var/cache/yum wouldn't be worth > sharing. Comparing the contents of the directory either side of an > install resulted in no change. Is a copy of the package supposed to > be in there? Make sure you have keepcache=1 in your /etc/yum.conf David From dlutter at redhat.com Thu Jan 11 23:33:19 2007 From: dlutter at redhat.com (David Lutterkort) Date: Thu, 11 Jan 2007 15:33:19 -0800 Subject: Fedora Server Spin Message-ID: <1168558399.21083.42.camel@localhost.localdomain> I created an initial skeleton list of packages[1] for the Fedora Serevr spin [2]. The list was generated by looking at all the packages ('server packages') in current Core and Extras Rawhide that own a file in /etc/rc.d/init.d or /etc/init.d. The list is a first attempt at getting a package list together and needs a lot more love from everybody; once this list is complete we'll look at adding supporting packages like system-config-* and sendmail-cf. I classified all the server packages in one of three groups: Maybe, Include, and Exclude. Things landed in Exclude mainly because they either were game servers or because they seemed only useful on a desktop. Packages in Maybe seem like they should be excluded, but I am not sure. Anybody interested in Fedora Server should have a look at the package list and let me know if they think a package should be classified differently; for the Maybe group, I'd appreciate comments on whether the packages should be included or not (e.g., should FSS support dynamic DNS and include the various clients for dyndns.org etc. ?) David [1] http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Releases/FeatureFedoraServer/Packages [2] http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Releases/FeatureFedoraServer From pertusus at free.fr Thu Jan 11 23:47:38 2007 From: pertusus at free.fr (Patrice Dumas) Date: Fri, 12 Jan 2007 00:47:38 +0100 Subject: Fedora Server Spin In-Reply-To: <1168558399.21083.42.camel@localhost.localdomain> References: <1168558399.21083.42.camel@localhost.localdomain> Message-ID: <20070111234738.GA2656@free.fr> On Thu, Jan 11, 2007 at 03:33:19PM -0800, David Lutterkort wrote: > I created an initial skeleton list of packages[1] for the Fedora Serevr > spin [2]. The list was generated by looking at all the packages ('server > packages') in current Core and Extras Rawhide that own a file > in /etc/rc.d/init.d or /etc/init.d. You could add dap-server-cgi and dependencies (except if it takes too much space). The summary is 'A preconfigured CGI interface for the OPeNDAP server'. -- Pat From tadams-lists at myrealbox.com Thu Jan 11 23:59:30 2007 From: tadams-lists at myrealbox.com (Trever L. Adams) Date: Thu, 11 Jan 2007 16:59:30 -0700 Subject: FC6 on a HP DC7700 In-Reply-To: <45A5EA62.5080901@crc.dk> References: <45A58C61.3080206@idigx.com> <45A5EA62.5080901@crc.dk> Message-ID: <1168559971.18249.5.camel@aurora.localdomain> On Thu, 2007-01-11 at 08:42 +0100, Mogens Kjaer wrote: > Note, this is the 64 bit FC6, acpi=off. > > It won't boot without acpi=off, BIOS > is v1.06 > > Mogens > I have an HP laptop that has problems. It is a dual core, not sure if yours is. Can you try it with acpi on and the noapic command? Trever From gajownik at gmail.com Thu Jan 11 23:57:09 2007 From: gajownik at gmail.com (Dawid Gajownik) Date: Fri, 12 Jan 2007 00:57:09 +0100 Subject: Fedora Server Spin In-Reply-To: <1168558399.21083.42.camel@localhost.localdomain> References: <1168558399.21083.42.camel@localhost.localdomain> Message-ID: <45A6CED5.7000901@gmail.com> Dnia 01/12/2007 12:33 AM, U?ytkownik David Lutterkort napisa?: > Anybody interested in Fedora Server should have a look at the package > list and let me know if they think a package should be classified > differently > [1] http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Releases/FeatureFedoraServer/Packages I would put athcool in Exclude group. It's rather a hack for older AMD processors without PowerNOW!/Cool'n'Quiet technology. http://members.jcom.home.ne.jp/jacobi/linux/softwares.html#athcool Well, I use it all the time but I don't think that it's suitable for server version. HTH, Dawid -- ^_* From dennis at ausil.us Fri Jan 12 00:04:04 2007 From: dennis at ausil.us (Dennis Gilmore) Date: Thu, 11 Jan 2007 18:04:04 -0600 Subject: Fedora Server Spin In-Reply-To: <1168558399.21083.42.camel@localhost.localdomain> References: <1168558399.21083.42.camel@localhost.localdomain> Message-ID: <200701111804.04376.dennis@ausil.us> On Thursday 11 January 2007 17:33, David Lutterkort wrote: > I created an initial skeleton list of packages[1] for the Fedora Serevr > spin [2]. The list was generated by looking at all the packages ('server > packages') in current Core and Extras Rawhide that own a file > in /etc/rc.d/init.d or /etc/init.d. > Anybody interested in Fedora Server should have a look at the package > list and let me know if they think a package should be classified > differently; for the Maybe group, I'd appreciate comments on whether the > packages should be included or not (e.g., should FSS support dynamic DNS > and include the various clients for dyndns.org etc. ?) While not in yet I would like to see Fedora Directory server in the list. All its deps are now in and i expect to have a package for review up by the middle of next week. It is one of the Features that I want to make sure is added for F7 -- ?,-._|\ ? ?Dennis Gilmore, RHCE /Aussie\ ? Proud Australian \_.--._/ ? | Aurora | Fedora | ? ? ? v ? ? From tswan at idigx.com Fri Jan 12 00:13:09 2007 From: tswan at idigx.com (Thomas Swan) Date: Thu, 11 Jan 2007 18:13:09 -0600 Subject: FC6 on a HP DC7700 In-Reply-To: <1168559971.18249.5.camel@aurora.localdomain> References: <45A58C61.3080206@idigx.com> <45A5EA62.5080901@crc.dk> <1168559971.18249.5.camel@aurora.localdomain> Message-ID: <45A6D295.9060206@idigx.com> Trever L. Adams wrote: > On Thu, 2007-01-11 at 08:42 +0100, Mogens Kjaer wrote: > > >> Note, this is the 64 bit FC6, acpi=off. >> >> It won't boot without acpi=off, BIOS >> is v1.06 >> >> Mogens >> >> > > I have an HP laptop that has problems. It is a dual core, not sure if > yours is. Can you try it with acpi on and the noapic command? > > Trever > > This is a dc7000 with a "core 2 duo" processor. From dlutter at redhat.com Fri Jan 12 00:16:05 2007 From: dlutter at redhat.com (David Lutterkort) Date: Fri, 12 Jan 2007 00:16:05 +0000 Subject: Fedora Server Spin In-Reply-To: <200701111804.04376.dennis@ausil.us> References: <1168558399.21083.42.camel@localhost.localdomain> <200701111804.04376.dennis@ausil.us> Message-ID: <1168560965.21083.47.camel@localhost.localdomain> On Thu, 2007-01-11 at 18:04 -0600, Dennis Gilmore wrote: > While not in yet I would like to see Fedora Directory server in the list. All > its deps are now in That brings up a good point that needs to be answered for all the targeted Fedora spins: how will the package list be maintained, and particularly, how will newly accepted packages get into those spins. Submitters should probably be able to indicate in which spin(s) their new package should be included. > and i expect to have a package for review up by the > middle of next week. It is one of the Features that I want to make sure is > added for F7 Can you make sure you cc me on the review request ? David From kevin.kofler at chello.at Fri Jan 12 00:22:29 2007 From: kevin.kofler at chello.at (Kevin Kofler) Date: Fri, 12 Jan 2007 00:22:29 +0000 (UTC) Subject: Fedora Server Spin References: <1168558399.21083.42.camel@localhost.localdomain> Message-ID: David Lutterkort redhat.com> writes: > I classified all the server packages in one of three groups: Maybe, > Include, and Exclude. Things landed in Exclude mainly because they > either were game servers or because they seemed only useful on a > desktop. Packages in Maybe seem like they should be excluded, but I am > not sure. xpilot-ng-server is a game server, yet it's still in Include. Also, are you sure you want to exclude wpa_supplicant? Some people do use laptops as servers and they might want WPA support, though of course using wireless networking doesn't make for a very dependable server. ;-) Kevin Kofler From dlutter at redhat.com Fri Jan 12 00:29:42 2007 From: dlutter at redhat.com (David Lutterkort) Date: Fri, 12 Jan 2007 00:29:42 +0000 Subject: Fedora Server Spin In-Reply-To: References: <1168558399.21083.42.camel@localhost.localdomain> Message-ID: <1168561782.21083.55.camel@localhost.localdomain> On Fri, 2007-01-12 at 00:22 +0000, Kevin Kofler wrote: > David Lutterkort redhat.com> writes: > > I classified all the server packages in one of three groups: Maybe, > > Include, and Exclude. Things landed in Exclude mainly because they > > either were game servers or because they seemed only useful on a > > desktop. Packages in Maybe seem like they should be excluded, but I am > > not sure. > > xpilot-ng-server is a game server, yet it's still in Include. Thanks for pointing that out - I'll remove it. > Also, are you sure you want to exclude wpa_supplicant? Some people do use > laptops as servers and they might want WPA support, though of course using > wireless networking doesn't make for a very dependable server. ;-) I would argue that such people should just install the generic 'everything and the kitchen-sink' Fedora spin - the server spin should be focused on traditional server setups. David From Curtis at GreenKey.net Fri Jan 12 00:35:58 2007 From: Curtis at GreenKey.net (Curtis Doty) Date: Thu, 11 Jan 2007 16:35:58 -0800 (PST) Subject: Fedora Server Spin In-Reply-To: <1168558399.21083.42.camel@localhost.localdomain> References: <1168558399.21083.42.camel@localhost.localdomain> Message-ID: <20070112003559.154956F06E@alopias.GreenKey.net> 3:33pm David Lutterkort said: > > Anybody interested in Fedora Server should have a look at the package > list and let me know if they think a package should be classified > differently; for the Maybe group, I'd appreciate comments on whether the > packages should be included or not (e.g., should FSS support dynamic DNS > and include the various clients for dyndns.org etc. ?) > This may be debatable, but avahi should *not* be part of the minimal install. Maybe as an option...with the 802.1X supplicant just mentioned. And mildly related, I have a couple server-class environments that desire ImageMagick. The fc6 rpm would have produced a 50 package dependency list! Some made sense. But others, like avahi, made none. ../C From dlutter at redhat.com Fri Jan 12 01:07:16 2007 From: dlutter at redhat.com (David Lutterkort) Date: Thu, 11 Jan 2007 17:07:16 -0800 Subject: Fedora Server Spin In-Reply-To: <20070112003559.154956F06E@alopias.GreenKey.net> References: <1168558399.21083.42.camel@localhost.localdomain> <20070112003559.154956F06E@alopias.GreenKey.net> Message-ID: <1168564036.21083.68.camel@localhost.localdomain> On Thu, 2007-01-11 at 16:35 -0800, Curtis Doty wrote: > 3:33pm David Lutterkort said: > > > > Anybody interested in Fedora Server should have a look at the package > > list and let me know if they think a package should be classified > > differently; for the Maybe group, I'd appreciate comments on whether the > > packages should be included or not (e.g., should FSS support dynamic DNS > > and include the various clients for dyndns.org etc. ?) > > > > This may be debatable, but avahi should *not* be part of the minimal > install. Maybe as an option...with the 802.1X supplicant just mentioned. Yeah, I think it should be out, too (not just the minimal install, but out of the Fedora Server spin in general) > And mildly related, I have a couple server-class environments that desire > ImageMagick. The fc6 rpm would have produced a 50 package dependency list! > Some made sense. But others, like avahi, made none. The full dependency list for ImageMagick is huge .. part of the problem is that the package contains stuff that makes sense on a server like convert and things that don't, like display; but unless somebody has the time and inclination to pick the package apart and turn it into two (or more) that's not likely to improve. David From pemboa at gmail.com Fri Jan 12 01:24:37 2007 From: pemboa at gmail.com (Arthur Pemberton) Date: Thu, 11 Jan 2007 19:24:37 -0600 Subject: Fedora Server Spin In-Reply-To: <1168558399.21083.42.camel@localhost.localdomain> References: <1168558399.21083.42.camel@localhost.localdomain> Message-ID: <16de708d0701111724i79c29312o762aa265a0d60a18@mail.gmail.com> On 1/11/07, David Lutterkort wrote: > I created an initial skeleton list of packages[1] for the Fedora Serevr > spin [2]. The list was generated by looking at all the packages ('server > packages') in current Core and Extras Rawhide that own a file > in /etc/rc.d/init.d or /etc/init.d. > > The list is a first attempt at getting a package list together and needs > a lot more love from everybody; once this list is complete we'll look at > adding supporting packages like system-config-* and sendmail-cf. > > I classified all the server packages in one of three groups: Maybe, > Include, and Exclude. Things landed in Exclude mainly because they > either were game servers or because they seemed only useful on a > desktop. Packages in Maybe seem like they should be excluded, but I am > not sure. > > Anybody interested in Fedora Server should have a look at the package > list and let me know if they think a package should be classified > differently; for the Maybe group, I'd appreciate comments on whether the > packages should be included or not (e.g., should FSS support dynamic DNS > and include the various clients for dyndns.org etc. ?) > > David > > [1] http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Releases/FeatureFedoraServer/Packages > [2] http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Releases/FeatureFedoraServer * bluez-utils - Do people really use bluetooth on a server? Selfishly, I would like to see: * awstats * freenx/nx * xfce Others may want * tftp * tftp-server -- Fedora Core 6 and proud From pemboa at gmail.com Fri Jan 12 01:27:13 2007 From: pemboa at gmail.com (Arthur Pemberton) Date: Thu, 11 Jan 2007 19:27:13 -0600 Subject: Fedora Server Spin In-Reply-To: <16de708d0701111724i79c29312o762aa265a0d60a18@mail.gmail.com> References: <1168558399.21083.42.camel@localhost.localdomain> <16de708d0701111724i79c29312o762aa265a0d60a18@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <16de708d0701111727u72ec404ewa5c115b31dcbda12@mail.gmail.com> On 1/11/07, Arthur Pemberton wrote: > On 1/11/07, David Lutterkort wrote: > > I created an initial skeleton list of packages[1] for the Fedora Serevr > > spin [2]. The list was generated by looking at all the packages ('server > > packages') in current Core and Extras Rawhide that own a file > > in /etc/rc.d/init.d or /etc/init.d. > > > > The list is a first attempt at getting a package list together and needs > > a lot more love from everybody; once this list is complete we'll look at > > adding supporting packages like system-config-* and sendmail-cf. > > > > I classified all the server packages in one of three groups: Maybe, > > Include, and Exclude. Things landed in Exclude mainly because they > > either were game servers or because they seemed only useful on a > > desktop. Packages in Maybe seem like they should be excluded, but I am > > not sure. > > > > Anybody interested in Fedora Server should have a look at the package > > list and let me know if they think a package should be classified > > differently; for the Maybe group, I'd appreciate comments on whether the > > packages should be included or not (e.g., should FSS support dynamic DNS > > and include the various clients for dyndns.org etc. ?) > > > > David > > > > [1] http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Releases/FeatureFedoraServer/Packages > > [2] http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Releases/FeatureFedoraServer > > > * bluez-utils - > Do people really use bluetooth on a server? > > Selfishly, I would like to see: > * awstats > * freenx/nx > * xfce > > Others may want > * tftp > * tftp-server > Also selfishly, I would like to see the noip ddns client as part of the server cd. -- Fedora Core 6 and proud From pertusus at free.fr Fri Jan 12 01:52:57 2007 From: pertusus at free.fr (Patrice Dumas) Date: Fri, 12 Jan 2007 02:52:57 +0100 Subject: Fedora Server Spin In-Reply-To: <16de708d0701111724i79c29312o762aa265a0d60a18@mail.gmail.com> References: <1168558399.21083.42.camel@localhost.localdomain> <16de708d0701111724i79c29312o762aa265a0d60a18@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <20070112015257.GC2656@free.fr> On Thu, Jan 11, 2007 at 07:24:37PM -0600, Arthur Pemberton wrote: > On 1/11/07, David Lutterkort wrote: > > * freenx/nx > * xfce Please, no window manager in server spin, except if needed as a dependency (although I can't see what would need a window manager as a dependency). > * tftp-server Undoubtly. -- Pat From stickster at gmail.com Fri Jan 12 01:58:18 2007 From: stickster at gmail.com (Paul W. Frields) Date: Thu, 11 Jan 2007 20:58:18 -0500 Subject: Fedora 7 In-Reply-To: <604aa7910701091220l5a66bd57j6244b57f2eb9c108@mail.gmail.com> References: <45A3AFF5.7050004@pajato.com> <604aa7910701091220l5a66bd57j6244b57f2eb9c108@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <1168567098.20971.0.camel@localhost.localdomain> On Tue, 2007-01-09 at 11:20 -0900, Jeff Spaleta wrote: > On 1/9/07, Paul Michael Reilly wrote: > > Speaking from a community perspective, YES. > > Speaking from a community perspective, i completely and utterly > disagree with you. > I say we have a dance-dance-revolution dance off to decide which of us > really speaks for the community. I think someone's setting up for this at the FudCon. ;-D -- Paul W. Frields, RHCE http://paul.frields.org/ gpg fingerprint: 3DA6 A0AC 6D58 FEC4 0233 5906 ACDB C937 BD11 3717 Fedora Project Board: http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Board Fedora Docs Project: http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/DocsProject -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: signature.asc Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 189 bytes Desc: This is a digitally signed message part URL: From pemboa at gmail.com Fri Jan 12 02:07:07 2007 From: pemboa at gmail.com (Arthur Pemberton) Date: Thu, 11 Jan 2007 20:07:07 -0600 Subject: Fedora Server Spin In-Reply-To: <20070112015257.GC2656@free.fr> References: <1168558399.21083.42.camel@localhost.localdomain> <16de708d0701111724i79c29312o762aa265a0d60a18@mail.gmail.com> <20070112015257.GC2656@free.fr> Message-ID: <16de708d0701111807lf1436d3q31bcd6c9b5c6f476@mail.gmail.com> On 1/11/07, Patrice Dumas wrote: > On Thu, Jan 11, 2007 at 07:24:37PM -0600, Arthur Pemberton wrote: > > On 1/11/07, David Lutterkort wrote: > > > > * freenx/nx > > * xfce > > Please, no window manager in server spin, except if needed as a > dependency (although I can't see what would need a window manager > as a dependency). As I said, it was a selfish request. But that brings to mind one thing: deny hosts is very happily on the list. Can we have it on by default? As I understand it, having root logins enabled by default is necessary. > > > * tftp-server > > Undoubtly. > > -- > Pat > > -- > fedora-devel-list mailing list > fedora-devel-list at redhat.com > https://www.redhat.com/mailman/listinfo/fedora-devel-list > -- Fedora Core 6 and proud From jkeating at redhat.com Fri Jan 12 02:13:00 2007 From: jkeating at redhat.com (Jesse Keating) Date: Thu, 11 Jan 2007 21:13:00 -0500 Subject: Fedora Server Spin In-Reply-To: <16de708d0701111724i79c29312o762aa265a0d60a18@mail.gmail.com> References: <1168558399.21083.42.camel@localhost.localdomain> <16de708d0701111724i79c29312o762aa265a0d60a18@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <200701112113.00311.jkeating@redhat.com> On Thursday 11 January 2007 20:24, Arthur Pemberton wrote: > Others may want > * tftp > * tftp-server Yes, these would be necessary for a pxe kickstart server. In this same vain, if it isn't already there, syslinux should be included. -- Jesse Keating Release Engineer: Fedora -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 189 bytes Desc: not available URL: From tibbs at math.uh.edu Fri Jan 12 02:30:53 2007 From: tibbs at math.uh.edu (Jason L Tibbitts III) Date: 11 Jan 2007 20:30:53 -0600 Subject: Fedora Server Spin In-Reply-To: <1168558399.21083.42.camel@localhost.localdomain> References: <1168558399.21083.42.camel@localhost.localdomain> Message-ID: >>>>> "DL" == David Lutterkort writes: DL> The list was generated by looking at all the packages ('server DL> packages') in current Core and Extras Rawhide that own a file in DL> /etc/rc.d/init.d or /etc/init.d. Just a note that in addition you should probably consider packages which drop files in /etc/xinetd.d. - J< From dlutter at redhat.com Fri Jan 12 02:34:14 2007 From: dlutter at redhat.com (David Lutterkort) Date: Fri, 12 Jan 2007 02:34:14 +0000 Subject: Fedora Server Spin In-Reply-To: <200701112113.00311.jkeating@redhat.com> References: <1168558399.21083.42.camel@localhost.localdomain> <16de708d0701111724i79c29312o762aa265a0d60a18@mail.gmail.com> <200701112113.00311.jkeating@redhat.com> Message-ID: <1168569254.21083.71.camel@localhost.localdomain> On Thu, 2007-01-11 at 21:13 -0500, Jesse Keating wrote: > On Thursday 11 January 2007 20:24, Arthur Pemberton wrote: > > Others may want > > * tftp > > * tftp-server > > Yes, these would be necessary for a pxe kickstart server. In this same vain, > if it isn't already there, syslinux should be included. It seems I kinda forgot all the good things in /etc/xinetd.d/ .. will add those tomorrow. David From yanmin_zhang at linux.intel.com Fri Jan 12 02:37:22 2007 From: yanmin_zhang at linux.intel.com (Zhang, Yanmin) Date: Fri, 12 Jan 2007 10:37:22 +0800 Subject: [Fedora-ia64-list] Re: anaconda-runtime error In-Reply-To: <1168503879.15989.234.camel@ymzhang> References: <1168319262.15989.211.camel@ymzhang> <200701092228.17083.jkeating@redhat.com> <1168486169.15989.226.camel@ymzhang> <200701102235.09492.jkeating@redhat.com> <1168503879.15989.234.camel@ymzhang> Message-ID: <1168569442.15989.240.camel@ymzhang> On Thu, 2007-01-11 at 16:24 +0800, Zhang, Yanmin wrote: > On Wed, 2007-01-10 at 22:34 -0500, Jesse Keating wrote: > > On Wednesday 10 January 2007 22:29, Zhang, Yanmin wrote: > > > Jesse, > > > > > > I tried the latest anaconda-11.2.0.8-1 to rebuildup dvd image. > > > Many issues (CD/hard/network didn't work) disappeared, but > > > anaconda aborted after I inputed NFS inatallation server. It reported > > > libnash.so.6.0.6 was missing. > > > > > > cann't open share dobject file: No such file or directory. > > > > > > I checked stage2.img and couldn't find libnash.so under usr/lib. > > > > > > I will add info to #219449. > > > > That should be fixed with tonight's rawhide (: > > > > Jeremy spent some time tonight getting anaconda to be able to actually > > partition, install packages, reboot. Also, the glibc doublefree is fixed too > > thanks to pyparted. > I applied below patch, the nash.so issue disappeared. > New issues: > 1) Install by nfs: hit the glibc double free issue; > 2) Install by cdrom: it reported no drive to have the cd; > 3) Install by hard disk: it listed all partitions, but mount always failed. > > Wait for the new packages. I got the latest development tree, including anaconda-11.2.0.9-1, and rebuilt DVD image. Update on the installation of the new image: 1) Install by nfs: Exception:; 2) Install by cdrom: Didn't test it; 3) Install by hard disk: Still old issue. It listed all partitions, but mount always failed. More info will be posted to #219449. Yanmin ------log of nfs installation exception------ Traceback (most recent call first): File "/usr/lib/anaconda/textw/network_text.py", line 177, in runScreen self.ipv4Cb = Checkbox(_("Enable IPv4 support"), net.useIPv4) File "/usr/lib/anaconda/textw/network_text.py", line 449, in __call__ showonboot) File "/usr/lib/anaconda/text.py", line 514, in run rc = win(self.screen, instance) File "/usr/bin/anaconda", line 970, in anaconda.intf.run(anaconda) AttributeError: Network instance has no attribute 'useIPv4' Local variables in innermost frame: devnames: ['eth0', 'eth1'] ptplist: [] showonboot: 1 IPV4toggled: self: topgrid: net: maingrid: screen: hwaddr: None v6list: [] descr: None IPV6toggled: dev: DEVICE=eth0 BOOTPROTO=dhcp ONBOOT=yes ypad: 0 bootproto: dhcp DHCPtoggled: mainrow: 1 wifilist: [] v4list: [] onboot: yes onbootIsOn: True From jkeating at redhat.com Fri Jan 12 02:41:32 2007 From: jkeating at redhat.com (Jesse Keating) Date: Thu, 11 Jan 2007 21:41:32 -0500 Subject: [Fedora-ia64-list] Re: anaconda-runtime error In-Reply-To: <1168569442.15989.240.camel@ymzhang> References: <1168319262.15989.211.camel@ymzhang> <1168503879.15989.234.camel@ymzhang> <1168569442.15989.240.camel@ymzhang> Message-ID: <200701112141.32323.jkeating@redhat.com> On Thursday 11 January 2007 21:37, Zhang, Yanmin wrote: > ------log of nfs installation exception------ > Traceback (most recent call first): > ? File "/usr/lib/anaconda/textw/network_text.py", line 177, in runScreen > ? ? self.ipv4Cb = Checkbox(_("Enable IPv4 support"), net.useIPv4) > ? File "/usr/lib/anaconda/textw/network_text.py", line 449, in __call__ > ? ? showonboot) > ? File "/usr/lib/anaconda/text.py", line 514, in run > ? ? rc = win(self.screen, instance) > ? File "/usr/bin/anaconda", line 970, in > ? ? anaconda.intf.run(anaconda) > AttributeError: Network instance has no attribute 'useIPv4' This only happens in text mode, and should be fixed for tomorrow's rawhide (: -- Jesse Keating Release Engineer: Fedora -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 189 bytes Desc: not available URL: From pemboa at gmail.com Fri Jan 12 02:53:03 2007 From: pemboa at gmail.com (Arthur Pemberton) Date: Fri, 12 Jan 2007 20:53:03 +1800 Subject: Fedora Server Spin In-Reply-To: <200701112113.00311.jkeating@redhat.com> References: <1168558399.21083.42.camel@localhost.localdomain> <16de708d0701111724i79c29312o762aa265a0d60a18@mail.gmail.com> <200701112113.00311.jkeating@redhat.com> Message-ID: <16de708d0701111853r7cd30d49kdc2aaf6f6f5e8d29@mail.gmail.com> On 1/12/07, Jesse Keating wrote: > On Thursday 11 January 2007 20:24, Arthur Pemberton wrote: > > Others may want > > * tftp > > * tftp-server > > Yes, these would be necessary for a pxe kickstart server. In this same vain, > if it isn't already there, syslinux should be included. > That was the idea...except I haven't done it yet myself....please don't revoke my geek licence. -- Fedora Core 6 and proud From dlutter at redhat.com Fri Jan 12 03:09:31 2007 From: dlutter at redhat.com (David Lutterkort) Date: Fri, 12 Jan 2007 03:09:31 +0000 Subject: Fedora Server Spin In-Reply-To: <16de708d0701111727u72ec404ewa5c115b31dcbda12@mail.gmail.com> References: <1168558399.21083.42.camel@localhost.localdomain> <16de708d0701111724i79c29312o762aa265a0d60a18@mail.gmail.com> <16de708d0701111727u72ec404ewa5c115b31dcbda12@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <1168571371.21083.78.camel@localhost.localdomain> On Thu, 2007-01-11 at 19:27 -0600, Arthur Pemberton wrote: > Also selfishly, I would like to see the noip ddns client as part of > the server cd. Is that a separate client or would one of the other ddns clients do ? It has to be packaged for Fedora before we can talk about it here ;) As I said, I am on the fence for DDNS with this, but since the clients are really small and don't seem to pull in anything outrageous, including them shouldn't be a big deal David From jspaleta at gmail.com Fri Jan 12 03:11:41 2007 From: jspaleta at gmail.com (Jeff Spaleta) Date: Thu, 11 Jan 2007 18:11:41 -0900 Subject: Fedora 7 In-Reply-To: <1168567098.20971.0.camel@localhost.localdomain> References: <45A3AFF5.7050004@pajato.com> <604aa7910701091220l5a66bd57j6244b57f2eb9c108@mail.gmail.com> <1168567098.20971.0.camel@localhost.localdomain> Message-ID: <604aa7910701111911r31390f26m4f166e114be5346@mail.gmail.com> On 1/11/07, Paul W. Frields wrote: > I think someone's setting up for this at the FudCon. ;-D I'd rather see some wii-sports. -jef From bernie at develer.com Fri Jan 12 03:31:13 2007 From: bernie at develer.com (Bernardo Innocenti) Date: Fri, 12 Jan 2007 04:31:13 +0100 Subject: proposal: mailing list reorganization In-Reply-To: <45A52F85.5020408@leemhuis.info> References: <45A52F85.5020408@leemhuis.info> Message-ID: <45A70101.70608@develer.com> Thorsten Leemhuis wrote: > * fedora-devel -- For devel discussion. The "old" fedora-devel-list > became quite noise and we want to avoid that with the new list. What's the problem with high-traffic lists? Today, almost anybody can afford the bandwidth and any half decent MUA can group by threads and apply powerful filters on the fly. In my experience, if you split too much by topic to reduce noise, you end up with very little discussion. People are less likely to see each other's post and comment. Look at the LKML for an example for an example of a very successful project with a single, very high traffic list. You can comfortably read it every day by looking at threads with subjects you care about. Look at Xorg for the opposite problem: 90% of the lists were desert until they merged them together. -- // Bernardo Innocenti - Develer S.r.l., R&D dept. \X/ http://www.develer.com/ From jkeating at redhat.com Fri Jan 12 03:39:21 2007 From: jkeating at redhat.com (Jesse Keating) Date: Thu, 11 Jan 2007 22:39:21 -0500 Subject: proposal: mailing list reorganization In-Reply-To: <45A70101.70608@develer.com> References: <45A52F85.5020408@leemhuis.info> <45A70101.70608@develer.com> Message-ID: <200701112239.21724.jkeating@redhat.com> On Thursday 11 January 2007 22:31, Bernardo Innocenti wrote: > What's the problem with high-traffic lists? ?Today, almost anybody can > afford the bandwidth and any half decent MUA can group by threads and > apply powerful filters on the fly. Its not the high-traffic. Its the amount of noise vs signal. Lists like LKML tend to have a lot of signal in that traffic. While unfortunately lists like fedora-devel have a lot of noise, that drives off the type of people who could handle the traffic should it be all signal. Even still its hard to keep up, and READ that much email. -- Jesse Keating Release Engineer: Fedora -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 189 bytes Desc: not available URL: From Curtis at GreenKey.net Fri Jan 12 04:14:51 2007 From: Curtis at GreenKey.net (Curtis Doty) Date: Thu, 11 Jan 2007 20:14:51 -0800 (PST) Subject: Fedora Server Spin In-Reply-To: <16de708d0701111807lf1436d3q31bcd6c9b5c6f476@mail.gmail.com> References: <1168558399.21083.42.camel@localhost.localdomain> <16de708d0701111724i79c29312o762aa265a0d60a18@mail.gmail.com> <20070112015257.GC2656@free.fr> <16de708d0701111807lf1436d3q31bcd6c9b5c6f476@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <20070112041451.27CE66F06E@alopias.GreenKey.net> 8:07pm Arthur Pemberton said: > > But that brings to mind one thing: deny hosts is very happily on the > list. Can we have it on by default? No please no. I cannot even imagine imposing this on all Fedora 7 Servers in the world. It's a neat idea, sure. But it's a matter of *choice*. Just as distributed spam identification networks are, for example. And some of us old fogeys have been wearing our tcp_wrappers since long before denyhosts was born. ../C From tom at impact-crater.com Fri Jan 12 05:06:53 2007 From: tom at impact-crater.com (Tom Rivers) Date: Fri, 12 Jan 2007 00:06:53 -0500 Subject: Fedora Server Spin In-Reply-To: <16de708d0701111853r7cd30d49kdc2aaf6f6f5e8d29@mail.gmail.com> References: <1168558399.21083.42.camel@localhost.localdomain> <16de708d0701111724i79c29312o762aa265a0d60a18@mail.gmail.com> <200701112113.00311.jkeating@redhat.com> <16de708d0701111853r7cd30d49kdc2aaf6f6f5e8d29@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <1168578413.3429.1.camel@aries.localdomain> On Fri, 2007-01-12 at 20:53 +0000, Arthur Pemberton wrote: > On 1/12/07, Jesse Keating wrote: > > On Thursday 11 January 2007 20:24, Arthur Pemberton wrote: > > > Others may want > > > * tftp > > > * tftp-server > > > > Yes, these would be necessary for a pxe kickstart server. In this same vain, > > if it isn't already there, syslinux should be included. > > > > That was the idea...except I haven't done it yet myself....please > don't revoke my geek licence. > > -- > Fedora Core 6 and proud > Hello Arthur, I think you might want to check your system date/time. I'm getting messages from you on the list that are in the future. ;) Tom From vonbrand at inf.utfsm.cl Fri Jan 12 05:14:39 2007 From: vonbrand at inf.utfsm.cl (Horst H. von Brand) Date: Fri, 12 Jan 2007 02:14:39 -0300 Subject: proposal: mailing list reorganization In-Reply-To: Message from Thorsten Leemhuis of "Thu, 11 Jan 2007 16:10:29 BST." <45A65365.6080305@leemhuis.info> Message-ID: <200701120514.l0C5EdYR014688@laptop13.inf.utfsm.cl> Thorsten Leemhuis wrote: [...] > I don't care much about to -list or not to -list, but having it > consistent might be good. I'm taking opinions on that, too (in private > or on the list). - Be consistent - I vote for no -list (you can/should filter on the List-*: headers anyway; it will get lost when chopping the From: to size for showing anyway) -- Dr. Horst H. von Brand User #22616 counter.li.org Departamento de Informatica Fono: +56 32 2654431 Universidad Tecnica Federico Santa Maria +56 32 2654239 Casilla 110-V, Valparaiso, Chile Fax: +56 32 2797513 From pemboa at gmail.com Fri Jan 12 05:23:51 2007 From: pemboa at gmail.com (Arthur Pemberton) Date: Thu, 11 Jan 2007 23:23:51 -0600 Subject: Fedora Server Spin In-Reply-To: <1168571371.21083.78.camel@localhost.localdomain> References: <1168558399.21083.42.camel@localhost.localdomain> <16de708d0701111724i79c29312o762aa265a0d60a18@mail.gmail.com> <16de708d0701111727u72ec404ewa5c115b31dcbda12@mail.gmail.com> <1168571371.21083.78.camel@localhost.localdomain> Message-ID: <16de708d0701112123j57cd3350paad7341e7ddb48a5@mail.gmail.com> On 1/11/07, David Lutterkort wrote: > On Thu, 2007-01-11 at 19:27 -0600, Arthur Pemberton wrote: > > Also selfishly, I would like to see the noip ddns client as part of > > the server cd. > > Is that a separate client or would one of the other ddns clients do ? It > has to be packaged for Fedora before we can talk about it here ;) Are there any clients that support multiple services? noip was in Fedora extras, not sure what happened to it :( > As I said, I am on the fence for DDNS with this, but since the clients > are really small and don't seem to pull in anything outrageous, > including them shouldn't be a big deal True. Plus, they do make a server on a dynamic ip useful > > David > > > -- > fedora-devel-list mailing list > fedora-devel-list at redhat.com > https://www.redhat.com/mailman/listinfo/fedora-devel-list > -- Fedora Core 6 and proud From pemboa at gmail.com Fri Jan 12 05:24:41 2007 From: pemboa at gmail.com (Arthur Pemberton) Date: Thu, 11 Jan 2007 23:24:41 -0600 Subject: Fedora Server Spin In-Reply-To: <1168578413.3429.1.camel@aries.localdomain> References: <1168558399.21083.42.camel@localhost.localdomain> <16de708d0701111724i79c29312o762aa265a0d60a18@mail.gmail.com> <200701112113.00311.jkeating@redhat.com> <16de708d0701111853r7cd30d49kdc2aaf6f6f5e8d29@mail.gmail.com> <1168578413.3429.1.camel@aries.localdomain> Message-ID: <16de708d0701112124m147b05f7lab3bd058a3b28763@mail.gmail.com> On 1/11/07, Tom Rivers wrote: > On Fri, 2007-01-12 at 20:53 +0000, Arthur Pemberton wrote: > > On 1/12/07, Jesse Keating wrote: > > > On Thursday 11 January 2007 20:24, Arthur Pemberton wrote: > > > > Others may want > > > > * tftp > > > > * tftp-server > > > > > > Yes, these would be necessary for a pxe kickstart server. In this same vain, > > > if it isn't already there, syslinux should be included. > > > > > > > That was the idea...except I haven't done it yet myself....please > > don't revoke my geek licence. > > > > -- > > Fedora Core 6 and proud > > > > Hello Arthur, > > I think you might want to check your system date/time. I'm getting > messages from you on the list that are in the future. ;) > > > Tom Well I use Gmail for mailing lists. Frankly, I think you're just jealous of my super human powers. -- Fedora Core 6 and proud From rc040203 at freenet.de Fri Jan 12 05:40:33 2007 From: rc040203 at freenet.de (Ralf Corsepius) Date: Fri, 12 Jan 2007 06:40:33 +0100 Subject: proposal: mailing list reorganization In-Reply-To: <200701112239.21724.jkeating@redhat.com> References: <45A52F85.5020408@leemhuis.info> <45A70101.70608@develer.com> <200701112239.21724.jkeating@redhat.com> Message-ID: <1168580434.22173.180.camel@mccallum.corsepiu.local> On Thu, 2007-01-11 at 22:39 -0500, Jesse Keating wrote: > On Thursday 11 January 2007 22:31, Bernardo Innocenti wrote: > > What's the problem with high-traffic lists? Today, almost anybody can > > afford the bandwidth and any half decent MUA can group by threads and > > apply powerful filters on the fly. ACK. > Its not the high-traffic. Its the amount of noise vs signal. Lists like LKML > tend to have a lot of signal in that traffic. While unfortunately lists like > fedora-devel have a lot of noise, that drives off the type of people who > could handle the traffic should it be all signal. Even still its hard to > keep up, and READ that much email. Well, IMO the real problem with the Fedora lists is not signal/noise it's "miss communication", primarily caused by people not getting mails, because * they can't be subscribed to all lists. * they don't know were to post to. * cross-posting. * some lists are closed * "reply-to's being tweaked ... So instead of inventing new lists, I would suggest to redefine/reconsider the purpose of existing lists and to close down several of them. Ralf From wtogami at redhat.com Fri Jan 12 05:54:16 2007 From: wtogami at redhat.com (Warren Togami) Date: Fri, 12 Jan 2007 00:54:16 -0500 Subject: Fedora Server Spin In-Reply-To: <1168561782.21083.55.camel@localhost.localdomain> References: <1168558399.21083.42.camel@localhost.localdomain> <1168561782.21083.55.camel@localhost.localdomain> Message-ID: <45A72288.4060100@redhat.com> David Lutterkort wrote: > >> Also, are you sure you want to exclude wpa_supplicant? Some people do use >> laptops as servers and they might want WPA support, though of course using >> wireless networking doesn't make for a very dependable server. ;-) > > I would argue that such people should just install the generic > 'everything and the kitchen-sink' Fedora spin - the server spin should > be focused on traditional server setups. > Also note that nothing stops the user from enabling *ALL* Fedora in their yum after installation of Fedora Server. Also... how much sense really is it to have a wireless server? Warren Togami wtogami at redhat.com From wtogami at redhat.com Fri Jan 12 05:58:01 2007 From: wtogami at redhat.com (Warren Togami) Date: Fri, 12 Jan 2007 00:58:01 -0500 Subject: Fedora Server Spin In-Reply-To: <16de708d0701111724i79c29312o762aa265a0d60a18@mail.gmail.com> References: <1168558399.21083.42.camel@localhost.localdomain> <16de708d0701111724i79c29312o762aa265a0d60a18@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <45A72369.10100@redhat.com> Arthur Pemberton wrote: > > Selfishly, I would like to see: > * freenx/nx > * xfce > I would think that a Server spin would have either "Necessary" or "Typical" things. The examples above are neither, for a server at least. Perhaps it would be a good thing to come up with written guidelines to what belongs in Server and what doesn't? NOTE: Excluding something from Server because it is very atypical does not mean it is unavailable. If you want them, you can always install via yum after you have the system online. Warren Togami wtogami at redhat.com From redhat at olen.net Fri Jan 12 06:40:46 2007 From: redhat at olen.net (Ola Thoresen) Date: Fri, 12 Jan 2007 07:40:46 +0100 Subject: proposal: mailing list reorganization In-Reply-To: <200701120514.l0C5EdYR014688@laptop13.inf.utfsm.cl> References: <200701120514.l0C5EdYR014688@laptop13.inf.utfsm.cl> Message-ID: <45A72D6E.6020309@olen.net> Horst H. von Brand wrote: > - Be consistent (I first sent this directly to Thorsten, but as the discussion is still going on here, I resend it to this thread). I prefer the list name to reflect _who_ the list is for, not _what_ is happening on the list. And I think this should be consistent. An exception to this rule is '-announce' lists that is ment solely for announcements, so no discussions should happen there. So in my opinion we should have something like - fedora-users - fedora-devel-users - fedora-developers - fedora-maintainers - fedora-advisory-board - fedora-qa - fedora-cvs-announce - fedora-maintainers-announce "fedora-maintainers" is my suggestion for the list you have named "fedora-project", as I think it is less chance that it will be confused with "fedora-users" with that name. "fedora-maintainers-announce" should then be used by the maintainers to annouce what they have decided for the future based on the discussions on "fedora-maintainers". For fedora-hardware/fedora-laptop I think most discussions should happen in fedora-devel-users and fedora-users. If we really want a list for hardware discussions it should be named something like "fedora-hardware-testers" as I guess most discussion would be about hardware that needs testing, not about hardware that is known to work or more general "what is best, Nvidia or ATI?"-discussions. I believe this will make it more obvious what lists one would want to subscribe to. Rgds. -- _,--', _._.--._____ .--.--';_'-.', ";_ _.,-' Ola Thoresen .'--'. _.' {`'-;_ .-.>.' '-:_ ) / `' '=. It is easier to fix Unix ) > {_/, /~) than to live with Windows |/ `^ .' From lamont at gurulabs.com Thu Jan 11 16:03:26 2007 From: lamont at gurulabs.com (Lamont Peterson) Date: Thu, 11 Jan 2007 09:03:26 -0700 Subject: F7 KDE spin In-Reply-To: <6c3f5e6c0701110150k4faa182fyd016deaf2b9bf3d7@mail.gmail.com> References: <45A2BABB.2090902@math.unl.edu> <200701100930.42922.lamont@gurulabs.com> <6c3f5e6c0701110150k4faa182fyd016deaf2b9bf3d7@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <200701110903.31853.lamont@gurulabs.com> On Thursday 11 January 2007 02:50am, Andrew Parker wrote: > On 1/10/07, Lamont Peterson wrote: > > Yes you can, just copy /var/cache/yum/ to a USB keychain drive (or SD > > card, or ...) or burn it to a disc. However, because the cache will > > change almost daily, this could get tedious. > > Maybe its just my setups, but my /var/cache/yum wouldn't be worth > sharing. Comparing the contents of the directory either side of an > install resulted in no change. Is a copy of the package supposed to > be in there? You need to edit /etc/yum.conf and change keepcache to 1. This defaulted to 0 (i.e., delete the package files after they're installed) as of FC5, IIRC. -- Lamont Peterson Senior Instructor Guru Labs, L.C. [ http://www.GuruLabs.com/ ] NOTE: All messages from this email address should be digitally signed with my 0xDC0DD409 GPG key. It is available on the pgp.mit.edu keyserver as well as other keyservers that sync with MIT's. -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 189 bytes Desc: not available URL: From mk at crc.dk Fri Jan 12 07:29:39 2007 From: mk at crc.dk (Mogens Kjaer) Date: Fri, 12 Jan 2007 08:29:39 +0100 Subject: FC6 on a HP DC7700 In-Reply-To: <1168559971.18249.5.camel@aurora.localdomain> References: <45A58C61.3080206@idigx.com> <45A5EA62.5080901@crc.dk> <1168559971.18249.5.camel@aurora.localdomain> Message-ID: <45A738E3.4070008@crc.dk> Trever L. Adams wrote: ... > Can you try it with acpi on and the noapic command? No, it still doesn't boot. The last line written is: ACPI: Assume root bridge [\_SB_.PCI0] bus is 0 Mogens -- Mogens Kjaer, Carlsberg A/S, Computer Department Gamle Carlsberg Vej 10, DK-2500 Valby, Denmark Phone: +45 33 27 53 25, Fax: +45 33 27 47 08 Email: mk at crc.dk Homepage: http://www.crc.dk From mk at crc.dk Fri Jan 12 07:32:27 2007 From: mk at crc.dk (Mogens Kjaer) Date: Fri, 12 Jan 2007 08:32:27 +0100 Subject: FC6 on a HP DC7700 In-Reply-To: <45A698FB.3000801@idigx.com> References: <45A58C61.3080206@idigx.com> <45A5EA62.5080901@crc.dk> <45A5F9BD.3070708@crc.dk> <45A698FB.3000801@idigx.com> Message-ID: <45A7398B.3000308@crc.dk> Thomas Swan wrote: ... > All of our HP DC7700 (1.86GHz processors) are having this problem. It > will boot with no options to the kernel and with acpi=off. Defaults > are turned on in the bios. After about 48 hours of uptime the speed > improves by a little. 7 seconds instead of 8-10 to run the little > test. Both on 64bit and 32bit FC6 installations. > Mine is a DC7700 with 2.13GHz processors: Intel(R) Core(TM)2 CPU 6400 @ 2.13GHz Could it be a cpuspeed problem? What is the "cpu MHz" line in /proc/cpuinfo say? Mogens -- Mogens Kjaer, Carlsberg A/S, Computer Department Gamle Carlsberg Vej 10, DK-2500 Valby, Denmark Phone: +45 33 27 53 25, Fax: +45 33 27 47 08 Email: mk at crc.dk Homepage: http://www.crc.dk From mk at crc.dk Fri Jan 12 08:39:06 2007 From: mk at crc.dk (Mogens Kjaer) Date: Fri, 12 Jan 2007 09:39:06 +0100 Subject: FC6 on a HP DC7700 In-Reply-To: <45A738E3.4070008@crc.dk> References: <45A58C61.3080206@idigx.com> <45A5EA62.5080901@crc.dk> <1168559971.18249.5.camel@aurora.localdomain> <45A738E3.4070008@crc.dk> Message-ID: <45A7492A.6010502@crc.dk> Mogens Kjaer wrote: > Trever L. Adams wrote: > ... >> Can you try it with acpi on and the noapic command? > > No, it still doesn't boot. > > The last line written is: > > ACPI: Assume root bridge [\_SB_.PCI0] bus is 0 > > Mogens I've tried with the 2.6.19-1.2895 x86_64 kernel, and now it requires both acpi=off and noapic. Without noapic it panics immediately. Mogens -- Mogens Kjaer, Carlsberg A/S, Computer Department Gamle Carlsberg Vej 10, DK-2500 Valby, Denmark Phone: +45 33 27 53 25, Fax: +45 33 27 47 08 Email: mk at crc.dk Homepage: http://www.crc.dk From besfahbo at redhat.com Fri Jan 12 09:06:49 2007 From: besfahbo at redhat.com (Behdad Esfahbod) Date: Fri, 12 Jan 2007 04:06:49 -0500 Subject: Fedora Server Spin In-Reply-To: <1168564036.21083.68.camel@localhost.localdomain> References: <1168558399.21083.42.camel@localhost.localdomain> <20070112003559.154956F06E@alopias.GreenKey.net> <1168564036.21083.68.camel@localhost.localdomain> Message-ID: <1168592809.27753.21.camel@home> On Thu, 2007-01-11 at 17:07 -0800, David Lutterkort wrote: > > The full dependency list for ImageMagick is huge .. part of the problem > is that the package contains stuff that makes sense on a server like > convert and things that don't, like display; You do want to have a minimal image viewer on a server, right? Or admins are forced to move files around to just view them? -- behdad http://behdad.org/ -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: signature.asc Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 189 bytes Desc: This is a digitally signed message part URL: From tmus at tmus.dk Fri Jan 12 09:41:01 2007 From: tmus at tmus.dk (Thomas M Steenholdt) Date: Fri, 12 Jan 2007 10:41:01 +0100 Subject: proposal: mailing list reorganization In-Reply-To: <45A5FE28.2000100@leemhuis.info> References: <45A52F85.5020408@leemhuis.info> <45A5FE28.2000100@leemhuis.info> Message-ID: Thorsten Leemhuis wrote: > > Non-contributors can still post, but get moderated (if they showed to be > "good" the get allowed to post without moderation, too); and > fedora-devel-discuss remains totally open for this sort of discussions, > too. > > The proposed solution is IMHO the best way to make both sides happy. > This was the part I was missing the first time i read your proposal. I agree that this is a good, working way to solve the problem. /Thomas From david at lovesunix.net Fri Jan 12 02:23:28 2007 From: david at lovesunix.net (David Nielsen) Date: Fri, 12 Jan 2007 03:23:28 +0100 Subject: Fedora 7 In-Reply-To: <1168567098.20971.0.camel@localhost.localdomain> References: <45A3AFF5.7050004@pajato.com> <604aa7910701091220l5a66bd57j6244b57f2eb9c108@mail.gmail.com> <1168567098.20971.0.camel@localhost.localdomain> Message-ID: <1168568608.26169.83.camel@dawkins> tor, 11 01 2007 kl. 20:58 -0500, skrev Paul W. Frields: > On Tue, 2007-01-09 at 11:20 -0900, Jeff Spaleta wrote: > > On 1/9/07, Paul Michael Reilly wrote: > > > Speaking from a community perspective, YES. > > > > Speaking from a community perspective, i completely and utterly > > disagree with you. > > I say we have a dance-dance-revolution dance off to decide which of us > > really speaks for the community. > > I think someone's setting up for this at the FudCon. ;-D I request videos of this historical showdown. - David -- "Ridicule is the only weapon that can be used against unintelligible propositions. Ideas must be distinct before reason can act upon them.? -Thomas Jefferson -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: signature.asc Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 189 bytes Desc: Dette er en digitalt underskrevet brevdel URL: From bojan at rexursive.com Fri Jan 12 10:05:22 2007 From: bojan at rexursive.com (Bojan Smojver) Date: Fri, 12 Jan 2007 10:05:22 +0000 (UTC) Subject: Fedora Server Spin References: <1168558399.21083.42.camel@localhost.localdomain> Message-ID: David Lutterkort redhat.com> writes: > Anybody interested in Fedora Server should have a look at the package > list and let me know if they think a package should be classified > differently; for the Maybe group, I'd appreciate comments on whether the > packages should be included or not (e.g., should FSS support dynamic DNS > and include the various clients for dyndns.org etc. ?) Would be great to put horde, imp and friends on the list too (i.e. webmail essentials :-). -- Bojan From admin at zapped.2y.net Fri Jan 12 10:43:25 2007 From: admin at zapped.2y.net (Erik van Pienbroek) Date: Fri, 12 Jan 2007 11:43:25 +0100 Subject: FC6 on a HP DC7700 In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <1168598605.18585.12.camel@alguno> Hi, In the school where I am responsible for Linux on the desktop we just received a number of HP DC7700's. When trying to boot it the normal way we see a message from the kernel that there is some IO-APIC IRQ problem which should be fixed in the vendor BIOS and during the ACPI initialisation the machine fully hangs. I'm using the 1.05 bios release. After booting the computer with the kernel boot option 'acpi=off' we succeed to start anaconda. However, the I/O with the hard drive (for example formatting) was very slow. After the installation was completed I tried installing the latest rawhide kernel (2.6.20rcX). When using this kernel the I/O speed was improved a lot! With the latest FC6 kernel (2.6.18.something) the program hdparm reported a speed of 3,5MB/sec while with 2.6.20rcX the speed was around 55MB/sec. With this setup the computer responded a lot more smoothly however I think there is still some more room for improvement. If you need more info, just ask. Regards, Erik van Pienbroek Op donderdag 23-11-2006 om 19:06 uur [tijdzone +0100], schreef Gianluca Sforna: > Hi all, > I just put my hands on a shiny HP DC7700, a Core 2 Duo based PC, but I > can't boot the installer because it hangs right after detecting > keyboard and mouse (PS/2) > > Does anyone experienced similar issues? > > googling around I already find some (scary...) info, and tried w/o > luck booting with acpi=off (boot, but it seems like hanging on every > screen, then eventually go on with the next after some minutes!), > noapic and nolapic. > > any help appreciated > > Cheers > > Gianluca > From mk at crc.dk Fri Jan 12 10:54:27 2007 From: mk at crc.dk (Mogens Kjaer) Date: Fri, 12 Jan 2007 11:54:27 +0100 Subject: FC6 on a HP DC7700 In-Reply-To: <1168598605.18585.12.camel@alguno> References: <1168598605.18585.12.camel@alguno> Message-ID: <45A768E3.9000305@crc.dk> Erik van Pienbroek wrote: ... > After booting the computer with the kernel boot option 'acpi=off' > we succeed to start anaconda. However, the I/O with the hard drive > (for example formatting) was very slow. I have set SATA emulation to IDE, and boot with acpi=off hda=noprobe hdc=noprobe then the IO speed is OK: # hdparm -t -T /dev/sda /dev/sda: Timing cached reads: 4460 MB in 2.00 seconds = 2230.11 MB/sec Timing buffered disk reads: 208 MB in 3.02 seconds = 68.89 MB/sec The "hda=noprobe hdc=noprobe" needs to be added manually to grub.conf after installation. Mogens -- Mogens Kjaer, Carlsberg A/S, Computer Department Gamle Carlsberg Vej 10, DK-2500 Valby, Denmark Phone: +45 33 27 53 25, Fax: +45 33 27 47 08 Email: mk at crc.dk Homepage: http://www.crc.dk From buildsys at redhat.com Fri Jan 12 11:43:36 2007 From: buildsys at redhat.com (buildsys at redhat.com) Date: Fri, 12 Jan 2007 06:43:36 -0500 Subject: rawhide report: 20070112 changes Message-ID: <200701121143.l0CBhaII001534@hs20-bc2-6.build.redhat.com> Updated Packages: control-center-1:2.17.5-1.fc7 ----------------------------- * Thu Jan 11 2007 Matthias Clasen - 2.17.5-1 - Update to 2.17.5 * Sat Dec 09 2006 Matthias Clasen - 2.17.3-2 - Spec file cleanups cpuspeed-1:1.2.1-1.53.fc7 ------------------------- * Thu Jan 11 2007 Jarod Wilson - Fix up documentation in config file (#219926) - Fall back cleanly to userspace governor on non-centrino/powernow-k8/p4-clockmod systems - Update description to reflect support for kernel-space freq scaling device-mapper-1.02.14-1.fc7 --------------------------- * Thu Jan 11 2007 Alasdair Kergon - 1.02.14-1 - Use CFLAGS when linking so mixed sparc builds can supply -m64. - Export dm_basename() and dm_tree_use_no_flush_suspend(). - Cope with a trailing space when comparing tables prior to possible reload. * Tue Nov 28 2006 Alasdair Kergon - 1.02.13-1 - Update dmsetup man page (setgeometry & message). - Suppress encryption key in 'dmsetup table' output unless --showkeys supplied. * Sat Oct 14 2006 Alasdair Kergon - 1.02.12-3 - Drop the release suffix. diffstat-1.43-1.fc7 ------------------- * Thu Jan 11 2007 Tim Waugh 1.43-1 - 1.43. Fixes bug #187350. No longer need compress patch. eclipse-changelog-1:2.3.3-3.fc7 ------------------------------- * Thu Jan 11 2007 Kyu Lee 2.3.3-3 - Updated license information. - Use copy-platform in %{_datadir}. fonts-indic-2.0.13-1.fc7 ------------------------ * Fri Jan 12 2007 Parag Nemade - 2.0.13-1 - Resolves: RH#220880 for [or_IN], RH#222406 for [ml_IN] (Parag Nemade) foomatic-3.0.2-45.fc7 --------------------- * Thu Jan 11 2007 Tim Waugh 3.0.2-45 - Leave gutenprint-recommended printers alone, rather than pointing them to gimp-print as before. gdb-6.5-24.fc7 -------------- * Thu Jan 11 2007 Jan Kratochvil - 6.5-24 - Backport readline history for input mode commands like `command' (BZ 215816). * Tue Jan 09 2007 Jan Kratochvil - 6.5-23 - Find symbols properly at their original (included) file (BZ 109921). - Remove the stuck mock(1) builds disfunctional workaround (-> mock BZ 221351). * Sat Dec 30 2006 Jan Kratochvil - 6.5-22 - Fix unwinding crash on older gcj(1) code (extended CFI support) (BZ 165025). - Include testcase for the readline history of input mode commands (BZ 215816). gettext-0.16.1-1.fc7 -------------------- * Fri Dec 22 2006 Jens Petersen - 0.16.1-1 - update to 0.16.1 * Mon Nov 27 2006 Jens Petersen - 0.16-2 - re-enable openmp on ia64 * Thu Nov 23 2006 Jens Petersen - 0.16-1 - update to 0.16 release - disable openmp on ia64 (#216988) gnome-session-2.17.5-1.fc7 -------------------------- * Wed Jan 10 2007 Matthias Clasen - 2.17.5-1 - Update to 2.17.5 hunspell-1.1.4-4.fc7 -------------------- * Thu Jan 11 2007 Caolan McNamara - 1.1.4-4 - fix out of range kernel-2.6.19-1.2911.fc7 ------------------------ * Thu Jan 11 2007 Kristian H??gsberg - Add and enable alternative firewire stack. * Thu Jan 11 2007 Jeremy Katz - disable nmi watchdog by default libselinux-1.33.4-1.fc7 ----------------------- libwpd-0.8.8-1 -------------- * Thu Jan 11 2007 Caolan McNamara - 0.8.8-1 - next version linuxdoc-tools-0.9.21-8.fc7 --------------------------- * Thu Jan 11 2007 Tim Waugh 0.9.21-8 - Applied patch from Kir Kolyshkin (bug #204902): - added a patch from debian bug #321998 (obsoletes patch -badif) lvm2-2.02.18-1.fc7 ------------------ * Thu Jan 11 2007 Alasdair Kergon - 2.02.18-1 - Use CFLAGS when linking so mixed sparc builds can supply -m64. - Prevent permission changes on active mirrors. - Print warning instead of error message if lvconvert cannot zero volume. - Add snapshot options to lvconvert man page. - dumpconfig accepts a list of configuration variables to display. - Change dumpconfig to use --file to redirect output to a file. - Avoid vgreduce error when mirror code removes the log LV. - Fix ambiguous vgsplit error message for split LV. - Fix lvextend man page typo. - Use no flush suspending for mirrors. - Fix create mirror with name longer than 22 chars. net-snmp-1:5.4-7.fc7 -------------------- * Thu Jan 11 2007 Radek Vok??l - 5.4-7 - fix ethtool extension (#222268) * Thu Jan 11 2007 Radek Vok??l - 5.4-6 - swith to new disman implementation numactl-0.9.8-1.38 ------------------ * Thu Jan 11 2007 Neil Horman - 0.9.8-1.38 - Fixed -devel to depend on base package so libnuma.so resolves * Thu Sep 21 2006 Neil Horman - 0.9.8-1.36 - adding nodebind patch for bz 207404 openoffice.org-1:2.1.0-6.12 --------------------------- * Thu Jan 11 2007 Caolan McNamara - 1:2.1.0-6.12 - Resolves: rhbz#216089 if there is no font at all to handle something pango-1.15.3-4.fc7 ------------------ * Thu Jan 11 2007 Behdad Esfahbod - 1.15.3-4 - Undo the posttrans change. That's a no no. We now regenerate the module file in postun if there are any other pango versions left. This should take care of the problem in the future. * Thu Jan 11 2007 Behdad Esfahbod - 1.15.3-3 - Move pango.modules generation to posttrans, to make sure modules available in an older version but not this one are removed. - Resolves #222217 policycoreutils-1.33.12-1.fc7 ----------------------------- * Tue Jan 09 2007 Dan Walsh 1.33.12-1 - Want to update to match api - Update to upstream * Merged newrole securetty check from Dan Walsh. * Merged semodule patch to generalize list support from Karl MacMillan. Resolves: #200110 * Tue Jan 09 2007 Dan Walsh 1.33.11-1 - Update to upstream * Merged fixfiles and seobject fixes from Dan Walsh. * Merged semodule support for list of modules after -i from Karl MacMillan. procinfo-18-20.fc7 ------------------ * Thu Jan 11 2007 Karel Zak 18-20 - bye bye libtermcap redhat-menus-7.8.9-2.fc7 ------------------------ * Thu Jan 11 2007 Matthias Clasen - 7.8.9-2 - Resolve a conflict with gnome-menus rhpl-0.200-1 ------------ * Thu Jan 11 2007 Paul Nasrat - 0.200-1 - Add PS3 ppc machine type setroubleshoot-1.8.14-1.fc7 --------------------------- * Thu Jan 11 2007 John Dennis - 1.8.14-1 - Resolves: bug# 221850 plugin module loading was failing in python 2.5 with the message "SystemError: Parent module 'plugins' not loaded". This is due to a change in behavior between python 2.4 and 2.5, in python 2.4 the lack of a parent module was silently ignored. The fix is to load plugins.__init__ first. system-config-httpd-5:1.4.3-1.fc7 --------------------------------- * Thu Jan 11 2007 Phil Knirsch 1.4.3-1.fc7 - Small manpage fix to be docbook compatible (#221191) util-linux-2.13-0.49.fc7 ------------------------ * Thu Jan 11 2007 Karel Zak 2.13-0.49 - fix #222293 - undocumented partx,addpart, delpart Broken deps for s390 ---------------------------------------------------------- systemtap - 0.5.10-1.fc7.s390 requires kernel >= 0:2.6.9-11 systemtap-runtime - 0.5.10-1.fc7.s390 requires kernel >= 0:2.6.9-11 From benny+usenet at amorsen.dk Fri Jan 12 11:55:28 2007 From: benny+usenet at amorsen.dk (Benny Amorsen) Date: 12 Jan 2007 12:55:28 +0100 Subject: Fedora Server Spin References: <1168558399.21083.42.camel@localhost.localdomain> <20070112003559.154956F06E@alopias.GreenKey.net> <1168564036.21083.68.camel@localhost.localdomain> <1168592809.27753.21.camel@home> Message-ID: >>>>> "BE" == Behdad Esfahbod writes: BE> On Thu, 2007-01-11 at 17:07 -0800, David Lutterkort wrote: >> The full dependency list for ImageMagick is huge .. part of the >> problem is that the package contains stuff that makes sense on a >> server like convert and things that don't, like display; BE> You do want to have a minimal image viewer on a server, right? Or BE> admins are forced to move files around to just view them? How do you view images without X? It CAN be done, but I must admit I haven't tried it this millennium. /Benny From fedora at camperquake.de Fri Jan 12 11:58:48 2007 From: fedora at camperquake.de (Ralf Ertzinger) Date: Fri, 12 Jan 2007 12:58:48 +0100 Subject: rawhide report: 20070112 changes In-Reply-To: <200701121143.l0CBhaII001534@hs20-bc2-6.build.redhat.com> References: <200701121143.l0CBhaII001534@hs20-bc2-6.build.redhat.com> Message-ID: <20070112125848.78be446c@banea.int.addix.net> Hi. On Fri, 12 Jan 2007 06:43:36 -0500, buildsys at redhat.com wrote: > kernel-2.6.19-1.2911.fc7 > ------------------------ > * Thu Jan 11 2007 Kristian H??gsberg > - Add and enable alternative firewire stack. Ooh, shiny. Is this more of a "I am pretty sure it will break" or "I am pretty sure it will work" stack? From rms at 1407.org Fri Jan 12 11:00:56 2007 From: rms at 1407.org (Rui Miguel Silva Seabra) Date: Fri, 12 Jan 2007 11:00:56 +0000 Subject: Fedora Server Spin In-Reply-To: <45A72369.10100@redhat.com> References: <1168558399.21083.42.camel@localhost.localdomain> <16de708d0701111724i79c29312o762aa265a0d60a18@mail.gmail.com> <45A72369.10100@redhat.com> Message-ID: <1168599656.6132.21.camel@localhost> Sex, 2007-01-12 ?s 00:58 -0500, Warren Togami escreveu: > Arthur Pemberton wrote: > > > > Selfishly, I would like to see: > > * freenx/nx > > * xfce > > > > I would think that a Server spin would have either "Necessary" or > "Typical" things. The examples above are neither, for a server at least. > > Perhaps it would be a good thing to come up with written guidelines to > what belongs in Server and what doesn't? > > NOTE: Excluding something from Server because it is very atypical does > not mean it is unavailable. If you want them, you can always install > via yum after you have the system online. FSS should, by default and if nothing else specified, install the minimal for: * remote access (aka ssh) * audit * be prepared for "yum install ..." * no "might be useful" services installed, only people who should know "best" should install servers, specially if connected to the internet :) Questions about packages that FSS could ask on interactive install: What kind of server do you want? [ ] Web Server [ ] Email Server [ ] Database Server ... (other choices, you get the gist I hope) Inside each of those maybe some questions like: [ ] password for X [ ] typical configuration { A or B or ... } for Y ... (other choices, you get the gist I hope) Configurations: Secure by default * no default passwords * no service shall start automatically unless it can have a secure default configuration * root only by sudo, but without direct access to a shell (for improved audit-ability) * selinux activated ... (other choices, you get the gist I hope) Think "OpenBSD but better" :) Rui -- + No matter how much you do, you never do enough -- unknown + Whatever you do will be insignificant, | but it is very important that you do it -- Gandhi + So let's do it...? -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: signature.asc Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 189 bytes Desc: Esta ? uma parte de mensagem assinada digitalmente URL: From fedora at camperquake.de Fri Jan 12 12:00:05 2007 From: fedora at camperquake.de (Ralf Ertzinger) Date: Fri, 12 Jan 2007 13:00:05 +0100 Subject: Fedora Server Spin In-Reply-To: References: <1168558399.21083.42.camel@localhost.localdomain> <20070112003559.154956F06E@alopias.GreenKey.net> <1168564036.21083.68.camel@localhost.localdomain> <1168592809.27753.21.camel@home> Message-ID: <20070112130005.3786e73c@banea.int.addix.net> Hi. On 12 Jan 2007 12:55:28 +0100, Benny Amorsen wrote: > How do you view images without X? Err, the X server does not have to be local? From andrewparker at bigfoot.com Fri Jan 12 11:54:49 2007 From: andrewparker at bigfoot.com (Andrew Parker) Date: Fri, 12 Jan 2007 06:54:49 -0500 Subject: F7 KDE spin In-Reply-To: <200701110903.31853.lamont@gurulabs.com> References: <45A2BABB.2090902@math.unl.edu> <200701100930.42922.lamont@gurulabs.com> <6c3f5e6c0701110150k4faa182fyd016deaf2b9bf3d7@mail.gmail.com> <200701110903.31853.lamont@gurulabs.com> Message-ID: <6c3f5e6c0701120354k35574066l3d79a77325aaa1a9@mail.gmail.com> On 1/11/07, Lamont Peterson wrote: > You need to edit /etc/yum.conf and change keepcache to 1. This defaulted to 0 > (i.e., delete the package files after they're installed) as of FC5, IIRC. bingo! thanks. From rhl-devel-list at lnx.ro Fri Jan 12 12:07:16 2007 From: rhl-devel-list at lnx.ro (Dumitru Ciobarcianu) Date: Fri, 12 Jan 2007 14:07:16 +0200 Subject: Fedora Server Spin In-Reply-To: References: <1168558399.21083.42.camel@localhost.localdomain> <20070112003559.154956F06E@alopias.GreenKey.net> <1168564036.21083.68.camel@localhost.localdomain> <1168592809.27753.21.camel@home> Message-ID: <1168603636.21383.3.camel@DustPuppy.LNX.RO> On Fri, 2007-01-12 at 12:55 +0100, Benny Amorsen wrote: > >>>>> "BE" == Behdad Esfahbod writes: > > BE> On Thu, 2007-01-11 at 17:07 -0800, David Lutterkort wrote: > >> The full dependency list for ImageMagick is huge .. part of the > >> problem is that the package contains stuff that makes sense on a > >> server like convert and things that don't, like display; > > BE> You do want to have a minimal image viewer on a server, right? Or > BE> admins are forced to move files around to just view them? > > How do you view images without X? > > It CAN be done, but I must admit I haven't tried it this millennium. Remote X display. ssh will even forward this over an secure channel for you. -- Cioby From vonbrand at inf.utfsm.cl Fri Jan 12 12:40:19 2007 From: vonbrand at inf.utfsm.cl (Horst H. von Brand) Date: Fri, 12 Jan 2007 09:40:19 -0300 Subject: Fedora Server Spin In-Reply-To: Message from Rui Miguel Silva Seabra of "Fri, 12 Jan 2007 11:00:56 -0000." <1168599656.6132.21.camel@localhost> Message-ID: <200701121240.l0CCeJRq007163@laptop13.inf.utfsm.cl> Rui Miguel Silva Seabra wrote: [...] > FSS should, by default and if nothing else specified, install the > minimal for: > * remote access (aka ssh) > * audit > * be prepared for "yum install ..." > * no "might be useful" services installed, only people who > should know "best" should install servers, specially if > connected to the internet :) Yep. > Questions about packages that FSS could ask on interactive install: > What kind of server do you want? > [ ] Web Server > [ ] Email Server > [ ] Database Server > ... (other choices, you get the gist I hope) This is mostly the selection of groups to install. > Inside each of those maybe some questions like: > [ ] password for X > [ ] typical configuration { A or B or ... } for Y > ... (other choices, you get the gist I hope) Hum... I'd go for "Installed, but disabled by default." (or whatever is the fail-safe option, i.e. SELinux enabled, no root login except on the console, ...) + "To set up for X do Y" type documentation here. Presumably they know what they are doing, and their setup most probably won't fit any "standard". Nice side effect is that it is simpler that way ;-) > Configurations: > Secure by default > * no default passwords > * no service shall start automatically unless it can > have a secure default configuration > * root only by sudo, but without direct access to a > shell (for improved audit-ability) > * selinux activated > ... (other choices, you get the gist I hope) Just one option is simpler, and so harder to screw up upstream (this is critical), and gives people time to look at the various pieces having the full documentation (and web access, etc) at hand. This is one of my gripes about the installation process: You have to decide on stuff without data, and either you decide right now or you can't go on. -- Dr. Horst H. von Brand User #22616 counter.li.org Departamento de Informatica Fono: +56 32 2654431 Universidad Tecnica Federico Santa Maria +56 32 2654239 Casilla 110-V, Valparaiso, Chile Fax: +56 32 2797513 From jonesc at hep.phy.cam.ac.uk Fri Jan 12 13:18:08 2007 From: jonesc at hep.phy.cam.ac.uk (Chris Jones) Date: Fri, 12 Jan 2007 13:18:08 +0000 Subject: Fedora Core 7 - Compiz vs Beryl In-Reply-To: <20070104212706.44899.qmail@web52412.mail.yahoo.com> References: <20070104212706.44899.qmail@web52412.mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <200701121318.08960.jonesc@hep.phy.cam.ac.uk> On Thursday 04 January 2007 9:27 pm, Otto Rey wrote: > What do you think about to replace Compiz with Beryl, and merge "Desktop > Effects" with "Beryl Manager" in FC7? > > My vote: +1 > > Otto Rey So far this thread appears to have focused on the configuration of beryl versus compiz plus packaging. These are important of course but what about performance ? Just to add my experience of running both, I have found compiz much better. I have an nvidia go 5640 with 128M. compiz runs perfectly smoothly, the effects look great and don't slow things down. With beryl, the effects are more jerky and no where near as smooth. Reading around the mailing lists I also understand that beryl is not as well implemented as compiz. It requires two pixmaps per client window whereas compiz only needs one (someone please correct me here if I am wrong). So it simply uses more video ram to do the same things. So please, can we also bring performance into the discussion. From my experiences beryl is not yet ready to replace compiz, but maybe others have different experiences. I for one would like to see both beryl and compiz being kept available, just to see how both projects pan out. Chris From dmalcolm at redhat.com Fri Jan 12 14:13:10 2007 From: dmalcolm at redhat.com (David Malcolm) Date: Fri, 12 Jan 2007 09:13:10 -0500 Subject: Fedora Server Spin In-Reply-To: <1168558399.21083.42.camel@localhost.localdomain> References: <1168558399.21083.42.camel@localhost.localdomain> Message-ID: <1168611190.2834.19.camel@localhost.localdomain> On Thu, 2007-01-11 at 15:33 -0800, David Lutterkort wrote: > I created an initial skeleton list of packages[1] for the Fedora Serevr > spin [2]. The list was generated by looking at all the packages ('server > packages') in current Core and Extras Rawhide that own a file > in /etc/rc.d/init.d or /etc/init.d. > > The list is a first attempt at getting a package list together and needs > a lot more love from everybody; once this list is complete we'll look at > adding supporting packages like system-config-* and sendmail-cf. > [snip] I'm not sure that recursively sweeping through the packages requiring the current set would find these two, so how about adding Django and TurboGears? (and the various subcomponents of the latter. Both are in Extras. Django: A high-level Python Web framework TurboGears: Back-to-front web development in Python Rationale: Manfred might want to deploy an app developed in one of these frameworks to production. Similar argument may apply to ruby/rails. Hope this helps Dave From krh at redhat.com Fri Jan 12 15:22:00 2007 From: krh at redhat.com (=?UTF-8?B?S3Jpc3RpYW4gSMO4Z3NiZXJn?=) Date: Fri, 12 Jan 2007 10:22:00 -0500 Subject: rawhide report: 20070112 changes In-Reply-To: <20070112125848.78be446c@banea.int.addix.net> References: <200701121143.l0CBhaII001534@hs20-bc2-6.build.redhat.com> <20070112125848.78be446c@banea.int.addix.net> Message-ID: <45A7A798.40705@redhat.com> Ralf Ertzinger wrote: > Hi. > > On Fri, 12 Jan 2007 06:43:36 -0500, buildsys at redhat.com wrote: > >> kernel-2.6.19-1.2911.fc7 >> ------------------------ >> * Thu Jan 11 2007 Kristian H??gsberg >> - Add and enable alternative firewire stack. > > > Ooh, shiny. Is this more of a "I am pretty sure it will break" or "I am > pretty sure it will work" stack? It's on the "I'm pretty sure it will work" side of the fence :) The patch is taken from Andrew Mortons tree and I've tested it on a range of architectures, firewire controllers and firewire devices here. One caveat, though: only storage devices works at this point, user space API and streaming functionality is not yet in place. So for a little while we'll see missing features from the firewire stack. However, I hope to have it back to a level where libraw1394 and libdc1394 will work, and where porting the rest is reasonably easy within a month. cheers, Kristian From rms at 1407.org Fri Jan 12 15:29:08 2007 From: rms at 1407.org (Rui Miguel Silva Seabra) Date: Fri, 12 Jan 2007 15:29:08 +0000 Subject: Fedora Server Spin In-Reply-To: <200701121240.l0CCeJRq007163@laptop13.inf.utfsm.cl> References: <200701121240.l0CCeJRq007163@laptop13.inf.utfsm.cl> Message-ID: <1168615748.6132.41.camel@localhost> Sex, 2007-01-12 ?s 09:40 -0300, Horst H. von Brand escreveu: > > Inside each of those maybe some questions like: > > [ ] password for X > > [ ] typical configuration { A or B or ... } for Y > > ... (other choices, you get the gist I hope) > > Hum... I'd go for "Installed, but disabled by default." (or whatever is the > fail-safe option, i.e. SELinux enabled, no root login except on the > console, ...) + "To set up for X do Y" type documentation here. Presumably > they know what they are doing, and their setup most probably won't fit any > "standard". Nice side effect is that it is simpler that way ;-) I'd prefer that too, but I used "maybe" with a particular intention, you might predict some simple scenarios which are easy to have a generic default config (like a simple mta on the localhost for sending email outside). > > Configurations: > > Secure by default > > * no default passwords > > * no service shall start automatically unless it can > > have a secure default configuration > > * root only by sudo, but without direct access to a > > shell (for improved audit-ability) > > * selinux activated > > ... (other choices, you get the gist I hope) > > Just one option is simpler This aren't supposed to be options, I meant choices as in choices of things to configure by default. > , and so harder to screw up upstream (this is > critical), Many projects have HORRIBLE configurations by default (JBoss and tomcat for instance). I'm not sure they're inclined to solve it upstream, and it's a true PITA to configure such systems in a PCI:DSS (for VISA) compliant form, for instance. > and gives people time to look at the various pieces having the > full documentation (and web access, etc) at hand. This is one of my gripes > about the installation process: You have to decide on stuff without data, > and either you decide right now or you can't go on. I usually define it with kickstart ;) Rui -- + No matter how much you do, you never do enough -- unknown + Whatever you do will be insignificant, | but it is very important that you do it -- Gandhi + So let's do it...? -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: signature.asc Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 189 bytes Desc: Esta ? uma parte de mensagem assinada digitalmente URL: From skvidal at linux.duke.edu Fri Jan 12 15:34:25 2007 From: skvidal at linux.duke.edu (seth vidal) Date: Fri, 12 Jan 2007 10:34:25 -0500 Subject: Fedora Server Spin In-Reply-To: <1168611190.2834.19.camel@localhost.localdomain> References: <1168558399.21083.42.camel@localhost.localdomain> <1168611190.2834.19.camel@localhost.localdomain> Message-ID: <1168616065.11006.18.camel@cutter> On Fri, 2007-01-12 at 09:13 -0500, David Malcolm wrote: > On Thu, 2007-01-11 at 15:33 -0800, David Lutterkort wrote: > > I created an initial skeleton list of packages[1] for the Fedora Serevr > > spin [2]. The list was generated by looking at all the packages ('server > > packages') in current Core and Extras Rawhide that own a file > > in /etc/rc.d/init.d or /etc/init.d. > > > > The list is a first attempt at getting a package list together and needs > > a lot more love from everybody; once this list is complete we'll look at > > adding supporting packages like system-config-* and sendmail-cf. > > > [snip] > > I'm not sure that recursively sweeping through the packages requiring > the current set would find these two, so how about adding Django and > TurboGears? (and the various subcomponents of the latter. Both are in > Extras. > > Django: A high-level Python Web framework > TurboGears: Back-to-front web development in Python > > Rationale: Manfred might want to deploy an app developed in one of these > frameworks to production. > > Similar argument may apply to ruby/rails. > okay this is insane. This is a server install. Let's have a single cd of almost nothing. A server install should be @Core, openssh-server, yum and that's pretty much it. Enough to get networking up and nothing else. After that the admin can install the components they need for the service the server will provide and be done with it. no apache no django no rails no tftpserver no anything ultra-clean - as servers should be. Then when you install a service package you can enable the service and you know that your server is setup properly: Only things you need are enabled. -sv From rms at 1407.org Fri Jan 12 15:35:51 2007 From: rms at 1407.org (Rui Miguel Silva Seabra) Date: Fri, 12 Jan 2007 15:35:51 +0000 Subject: Fedora Server Spin In-Reply-To: <1168616065.11006.18.camel@cutter> References: <1168558399.21083.42.camel@localhost.localdomain> <1168611190.2834.19.camel@localhost.localdomain> <1168616065.11006.18.camel@cutter> Message-ID: <1168616151.6132.44.camel@localhost> Sex, 2007-01-12 ?s 10:34 -0500, seth vidal escreveu: > okay this is insane. This is a server install. Let's have a single cd of > almost nothing. > > A server install should be @Core, openssh-server, yum and that's pretty > much it. > > Enough to get networking up and nothing else. After that the admin can > install the components they need for the service the server will provide > and be done with it. > > no apache > no django > no rails > no tftpserver > no anything > > ultra-clean - as servers should be. Then when you install a service > package you can enable the service and you know that your server is > setup properly: Only things you need are enabled. If I was a million people there would be 1 million +1 emails following your email :) As it is... +1 Rui -- + No matter how much you do, you never do enough -- unknown + Whatever you do will be insignificant, | but it is very important that you do it -- Gandhi + So let's do it...? -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: signature.asc Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 189 bytes Desc: Esta ? uma parte de mensagem assinada digitalmente URL: From thias at spam.spam.spam.spam.spam.spam.spam.egg.and.spam.freshrpms.net Fri Jan 12 15:39:16 2007 From: thias at spam.spam.spam.spam.spam.spam.spam.egg.and.spam.freshrpms.net (Matthias Saou) Date: Fri, 12 Jan 2007 16:39:16 +0100 Subject: Fedora Server Spin In-Reply-To: <1168616065.11006.18.camel@cutter> References: <1168558399.21083.42.camel@localhost.localdomain> <1168611190.2834.19.camel@localhost.localdomain> <1168616065.11006.18.camel@cutter> Message-ID: <20070112163916.109d4d9b@python3.es.egwn.lan> seth vidal wrote : > okay this is insane. This is a server install. Let's have a single cd of > almost nothing. > > A server install should be @Core, openssh-server, yum and that's pretty > much it. > > Enough to get networking up and nothing else. After that the admin can > install the components they need for the service the server will provide > and be done with it. > > no apache > no django > no rails > no tftpserver > no anything > > ultra-clean - as servers should be. Then when you install a service > package you can enable the service and you know that your server is > setup properly: Only things you need are enabled. Sounds pretty much like I'd expect it to be too :-) I wouldn't mind a few client applications, though, especially the few which would allow debugging any kind of failure to install packages using yum. So that would possibly mean an HTTP client to check outgoing port 80 connectivity, or maybe just the "telnet" client. Matthias -- Clean custom Red Hat Linux rpm packages : http://freshrpms.net/ Fedora Core release 6 (Zod) - Linux kernel 2.6.19-1.2888.fc6 Load : 0.09 0.24 0.31 From jkeating at redhat.com Fri Jan 12 15:45:53 2007 From: jkeating at redhat.com (Jesse Keating) Date: Fri, 12 Jan 2007 10:45:53 -0500 Subject: Fedora Server Spin In-Reply-To: <1168616065.11006.18.camel@cutter> References: <1168558399.21083.42.camel@localhost.localdomain> <1168611190.2834.19.camel@localhost.localdomain> <1168616065.11006.18.camel@cutter> Message-ID: <200701121045.53471.jkeating@redhat.com> On Friday 12 January 2007 10:34, seth vidal wrote: > okay this is insane. This is a server install. Let's have a single cd of > almost nothing. > > A server install should be @Core, openssh-server, yum and that's pretty > much it. > > Enough to get networking up and nothing else. After that the admin can > install the components they need for the service the server will provide > and be done with it. > > no apache > no django > no rails > no tftpserver > no anything > > ultra-clean - as servers should be. Then when you install a service > package you can enable the service and you know that your server is > setup properly: Only things you need are enabled. While I totally see value in this, and this is the way I usually set things up, why couldn't the (stripped down) @core, openssh-server openssh-clients, yum, and maybe lftp or links or something to hit web pages be the default install if you just click next/next/next. However having these packages on the CD and clickable at install time does add some value, you could pick at install time to just ask for apache and get what it needs, or just ask for mysql and get what it needs. Having them on the CD doesn't mean that they will all be installed by default. -- Jesse Keating Release Engineer: Fedora -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 189 bytes Desc: not available URL: From Curtis at GreenKey.net Fri Jan 12 15:52:51 2007 From: Curtis at GreenKey.net (Curtis Doty) Date: Fri, 12 Jan 2007 07:52:51 -0800 (PST) Subject: Fedora Server Spin In-Reply-To: <1168616151.6132.44.camel@localhost> References: <1168558399.21083.42.camel@localhost.localdomain> <1168611190.2834.19.camel@localhost.localdomain> <1168616065.11006.18.camel@cutter> <1168616151.6132.44.camel@localhost> Message-ID: <20070112155251.8E0EA6F06E@alopias.GreenKey.net> 3:35pm Rui Miguel Silva Seabra said: > Sex, 2007-01-12 ?s 10:34 -0500, seth vidal escreveu: > > > > ultra-clean - as servers should be. Then when you install a service > > package you can enable the service and you know that your server is > > setup properly: Only things you need are enabled. > > If I was a million people there would be 1 million +1 emails following > your email :) > > As it is... +1 > +1 more for "ultra-clean" as well as the "OpenBSD but better" theme. A simple measurement will be how clean is rpm -Va immediately post-install. No multilib collisions. No selinux or prelink confusion. ../C From jsacco at gnome.org Fri Jan 12 15:56:32 2007 From: jsacco at gnome.org (Joseph Sacco) Date: Fri, 12 Jan 2007 10:56:32 -0500 Subject: rawhide/linuxPPC kernel panics Message-ID: <1168617392.22603.4.camel@rt.jesacco.com> System: PowerMac with dual G4 533MHz processors, 1GB RAM, 3 SCSI drives The latest series of kernels do not boot on this system: https://bugzilla.redhat.com/bugzilla/process_bug.cgi Is anyone else seeing this? -Joseph -- jsacco [at] gnome [dot] org From skvidal at linux.duke.edu Fri Jan 12 16:01:50 2007 From: skvidal at linux.duke.edu (seth vidal) Date: Fri, 12 Jan 2007 11:01:50 -0500 Subject: Fedora Server Spin In-Reply-To: <20070112155251.8E0EA6F06E@alopias.GreenKey.net> References: <1168558399.21083.42.camel@localhost.localdomain> <1168611190.2834.19.camel@localhost.localdomain> <1168616065.11006.18.camel@cutter> <1168616151.6132.44.camel@localhost> <20070112155251.8E0EA6F06E@alopias.GreenKey.net> Message-ID: <1168617710.11006.21.camel@cutter> On Fri, 2007-01-12 at 07:52 -0800, Curtis Doty wrote: > 3:35pm Rui Miguel Silva Seabra said: > > > Sex, 2007-01-12 ?s 10:34 -0500, seth vidal escreveu: > > > > > > ultra-clean - as servers should be. Then when you install a service > > > package you can enable the service and you know that your server is > > > setup properly: Only things you need are enabled. > > > > If I was a million people there would be 1 million +1 emails following > > your email :) > > > > As it is... +1 > > > > +1 more for "ultra-clean" as well as the "OpenBSD but better" theme. > > A simple measurement will be how clean is rpm -Va immediately > post-install. No multilib collisions. No selinux or prelink confusion. > okay - a convincing argument was made to me for some amount of items for i18n. So non-western-language-speaking folks can use the server install. However, I think a server install's comps.xml is the perfect place for an @ultra-minimal which is narrow and controlled if only to save the one step a good admin will have to do anyway, which is removing all the unnecessary items from a server install. -sv From jwboyer at jdub.homelinux.org Fri Jan 12 15:58:47 2007 From: jwboyer at jdub.homelinux.org (Josh Boyer) Date: Fri, 12 Jan 2007 09:58:47 -0600 Subject: rawhide/linuxPPC kernel panics In-Reply-To: <1168617392.22603.4.camel@rt.jesacco.com> References: <1168617392.22603.4.camel@rt.jesacco.com> Message-ID: <1168617527.3696.18.camel@zod.rchland.ibm.com> On Fri, 2007-01-12 at 10:56 -0500, Joseph Sacco wrote: > System: PowerMac with dual G4 533MHz processors, 1GB RAM, 3 SCSI drives > > The latest series of kernels do not boot on this system: > > https://bugzilla.redhat.com/bugzilla/process_bug.cgi Um... this isn't a valid bugzilla URL. Got the real one? josh From rms at 1407.org Fri Jan 12 15:59:24 2007 From: rms at 1407.org (Rui Miguel Silva Seabra) Date: Fri, 12 Jan 2007 15:59:24 +0000 Subject: Fedora Server Spin In-Reply-To: <20070112155251.8E0EA6F06E@alopias.GreenKey.net> References: <1168558399.21083.42.camel@localhost.localdomain> <1168611190.2834.19.camel@localhost.localdomain> <1168616065.11006.18.camel@cutter> <1168616151.6132.44.camel@localhost> <20070112155251.8E0EA6F06E@alopias.GreenKey.net> Message-ID: <1168617564.6132.46.camel@localhost> Sex, 2007-01-12 ?s 07:52 -0800, Curtis Doty escreveu: > 3:35pm Rui Miguel Silva Seabra said: > > > Sex, 2007-01-12 ?s 10:34 -0500, seth vidal escreveu: > > > > > > ultra-clean - as servers should be. Then when you install a service > > > package you can enable the service and you know that your server is > > > setup properly: Only things you need are enabled. > > > > If I was a million people there would be 1 million +1 emails following > > your email :) > > > > As it is... +1 > > > > +1 more for "ultra-clean" as well as the "OpenBSD but better" theme. > > A simple measurement will be how clean is rpm -Va immediately > post-install. No multilib collisions. No selinux or prelink confusion. Ah, but the reverse of the medal is that you need to be able to do something in the lines of: yum install selinux or yum install prelink and let it install, then after your reboot have it working as expected :) Rui -- + No matter how much you do, you never do enough -- unknown + Whatever you do will be insignificant, | but it is very important that you do it -- Gandhi + So let's do it...? -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: signature.asc Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 189 bytes Desc: Esta ? uma parte de mensagem assinada digitalmente URL: From jsacco at gnome.org Fri Jan 12 16:01:29 2007 From: jsacco at gnome.org (Joseph Sacco) Date: Fri, 12 Jan 2007 11:01:29 -0500 Subject: rawhide/linuxPPC kernel panics Message-ID: <1168617689.22603.7.camel@rt.jesacco.com> [it would help if I copied and pasted the bug report URL correctly... :-)] -------- System: PowerMac with dual G4 533MHz processors, 1GB RAM, 3 SCSI drives The latest series of kernels do not boot on this system: https://bugzilla.redhat.com/bugzilla/show_bug.cgi?id=220470 Is anyone else seeing this? -Joseph -- jsacco [at] gnome [dot] org From jeff at ocjtech.us Fri Jan 12 16:32:43 2007 From: jeff at ocjtech.us (Jeffrey C. Ollie) Date: Fri, 12 Jan 2007 10:32:43 -0600 Subject: Fedora Server Spin In-Reply-To: <45A72288.4060100@redhat.com> References: <1168558399.21083.42.camel@localhost.localdomain> <1168561782.21083.55.camel@localhost.localdomain> <45A72288.4060100@redhat.com> Message-ID: <1168619563.5479.9.camel@lt21223.campus.dmacc.edu> On Fri, 2007-01-12 at 00:54 -0500, Warren Togami wrote: > > Also... how much sense really is it to have a wireless server? Off the top of my head here are a couple of scenarios: 1) A router between two wireless networks 2) A PC with a wireless card that is serving as an access point I'm sure that there are some other scenarios that "make sense". Of course, this is not really a reason to keep wpa_supplicant in the server spin. I'm all for leaving it out (NetworkManager too). Jeff -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: signature.asc Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 189 bytes Desc: This is a digitally signed message part URL: From galibert at pobox.com Fri Jan 12 18:04:16 2007 From: galibert at pobox.com (Olivier Galibert) Date: Fri, 12 Jan 2007 19:04:16 +0100 Subject: Fedora Server Spin In-Reply-To: <1168616065.11006.18.camel@cutter> References: <1168558399.21083.42.camel@localhost.localdomain> <1168611190.2834.19.camel@localhost.localdomain> <1168616065.11006.18.camel@cutter> Message-ID: <20070112180416.GA9663@dspnet.fr.eu.org> On Fri, Jan 12, 2007 at 10:34:25AM -0500, seth vidal wrote: > okay this is insane. This is a server install. Let's have a single cd of > almost nothing. > > A server install should be @Core, openssh-server, yum and that's pretty > much it. That's called a minimal install, not a server install. OG. From dennis at ausil.us Fri Jan 12 18:11:40 2007 From: dennis at ausil.us (Dennis Gilmore) Date: Fri, 12 Jan 2007 12:11:40 -0600 Subject: Fedora Server Spin In-Reply-To: <20070112180416.GA9663@dspnet.fr.eu.org> References: <1168558399.21083.42.camel@localhost.localdomain> <1168616065.11006.18.camel@cutter> <20070112180416.GA9663@dspnet.fr.eu.org> Message-ID: <200701121211.41307.dennis@ausil.us> On Friday 12 January 2007 12:04, Olivier Galibert wrote: > On Fri, Jan 12, 2007 at 10:34:25AM -0500, seth vidal wrote: > > okay this is insane. This is a server install. Let's have a single cd of > > almost nothing. > > > > A server install should be @Core, openssh-server, yum and that's pretty > > much it. > > That's called a minimal install, not a server install. > > OG. Its the perfect install for a firewall/router type setup. I personally think we need a handful of predefined server types. -- ?,-._|\ ? ?Dennis Gilmore, RHCE /Aussie\ ? Proud Australian \_.--._/ ? | Aurora | Fedora | ? ? ? v ? ? From dlutter at redhat.com Fri Jan 12 18:24:22 2007 From: dlutter at redhat.com (David Lutterkort) Date: Fri, 12 Jan 2007 18:24:22 +0000 Subject: Fedora Server Spin In-Reply-To: <1168616065.11006.18.camel@cutter> References: <1168558399.21083.42.camel@localhost.localdomain> <1168611190.2834.19.camel@localhost.localdomain> <1168616065.11006.18.camel@cutter> Message-ID: <1168626262.21083.93.camel@localhost.localdomain> On Fri, 2007-01-12 at 10:34 -0500, seth vidal wrote: > okay this is insane. This is a server install. Let's have a single cd of > almost nothing. > > A server install should be @Core, openssh-server, yum and that's pretty > much it. > > Enough to get networking up and nothing else. After that the admin can > install the components they need for the service the server will provide > and be done with it. The thing we are missing is some sort of agreement on what the server spin should be: I think everybody agrees that the minimal install you describe should be possible. The question is: what does the admin do afterwards ? If they install whatever they need over the newtwork why bother with a server spin to begin with ? We can just fiddle with @core a little and give them a kickstart file that produces the minimal install. But what about a customized comps file ? Is that desirable for a server spin ? Absolutely; and to arrive at that we do need to talk about including TurboGears and lots of other packages that people use on their servers. David From mmcgrath at fedoraproject.org Fri Jan 12 18:27:09 2007 From: mmcgrath at fedoraproject.org (Mike McGrath) Date: Fri, 12 Jan 2007 12:27:09 -0600 Subject: Fedora Server Spin In-Reply-To: <1168626262.21083.93.camel@localhost.localdomain> References: <1168558399.21083.42.camel@localhost.localdomain> <1168611190.2834.19.camel@localhost.localdomain> <1168616065.11006.18.camel@cutter> <1168626262.21083.93.camel@localhost.localdomain> Message-ID: <3237e4410701121027wec17be7r97e1bd65b5ca93da@mail.gmail.com> On 1/12/07, David Lutterkort wrote: > On Fri, 2007-01-12 at 10:34 -0500, seth vidal wrote: > The thing we are missing is some sort of agreement on what the server > spin should be: I think everybody agrees that the minimal install you > describe should be possible. The question is: what does the admin do > afterwards ? If they install whatever they need over the newtwork why > bother with a server spin to begin with ? We can just fiddle with @core > a little and give them a kickstart file that produces the minimal > install. Whats the difference between a minimal install and the 'single cd' spin? > > But what about a customized comps file ? Is that desirable for a server > spin ? Absolutely; and to arrive at that we do need to talk about > including TurboGears and lots of other packages that people use on their > servers. > We'll never appeal to everyone with the Server CD but we could stick some common tools on there as we need. Honestly though I think the 'single' CD is really what most of the server guys are looking for anyway. -Mike From dlutter at redhat.com Fri Jan 12 18:32:09 2007 From: dlutter at redhat.com (David Lutterkort) Date: Fri, 12 Jan 2007 18:32:09 +0000 Subject: Fedora Server Spin In-Reply-To: <1168617710.11006.21.camel@cutter> References: <1168558399.21083.42.camel@localhost.localdomain> <1168611190.2834.19.camel@localhost.localdomain> <1168616065.11006.18.camel@cutter> <1168616151.6132.44.camel@localhost> <20070112155251.8E0EA6F06E@alopias.GreenKey.net> <1168617710.11006.21.camel@cutter> Message-ID: <1168626729.21083.100.camel@localhost.localdomain> On Fri, 2007-01-12 at 11:01 -0500, seth vidal wrote: > okay - a convincing argument was made to me for some amount of items for > i18n. So non-western-language-speaking folks can use the server install. Just to be clear: 'some amount of items for i18n' means X, right ? This is fine for interactive installs, as long as we don't unnecessarily require X (especially server and drivers) for kickstarts and text-mode installs. > However, I think a server install's comps.xml is the perfect place for > an @ultra-minimal which is narrow and controlled if only to save the one > step a good admin will have to do anyway, which is removing all the > unnecessary items from a server install. And part of this exercise is to give people a good starting point for what's unnecessary etc. What's on your hit list for scrubbing server installs ? David From katzj at redhat.com Fri Jan 12 18:37:35 2007 From: katzj at redhat.com (Jeremy Katz) Date: Fri, 12 Jan 2007 13:37:35 -0500 Subject: Fedora Server Spin In-Reply-To: <1168626729.21083.100.camel@localhost.localdomain> References: <1168558399.21083.42.camel@localhost.localdomain> <1168611190.2834.19.camel@localhost.localdomain> <1168616065.11006.18.camel@cutter> <1168616151.6132.44.camel@localhost> <20070112155251.8E0EA6F06E@alopias.GreenKey.net> <1168617710.11006.21.camel@cutter> <1168626729.21083.100.camel@localhost.localdomain> Message-ID: <1168627055.15641.5.camel@aglarond.local> On Fri, 2007-01-12 at 18:32 +0000, David Lutterkort wrote: > On Fri, 2007-01-12 at 11:01 -0500, seth vidal wrote: > > okay - a convincing argument was made to me for some amount of items for > > i18n. So non-western-language-speaking folks can use the server install. > > Just to be clear: 'some amount of items for i18n' means X, right ? This > is fine for interactive installs, as long as we don't unnecessarily > require X (especially server and drivers) for kickstarts and text-mode > installs. Note that there's nothing that "unnecessarily requires X" as things stand now... many of my test installs end up being just base and thus don't have an X server. Jeremy From fedora at leemhuis.info Fri Jan 12 18:41:35 2007 From: fedora at leemhuis.info (Thorsten Leemhuis) Date: Fri, 12 Jan 2007 19:41:35 +0100 Subject: proposal: mailing list reorganization In-Reply-To: <20070111155717.GC8108@nostromo.devel.redhat.com> References: <45A52F85.5020408@leemhuis.info> <1168467152.3113.255.camel@erato.phig.org> <1168467472.4632.61.camel@aglarond.local> <20070111044739.GA2187@nostromo.devel.redhat.com> <45A6522E.1010005@leemhuis.info> <20070111155717.GC8108@nostromo.devel.redhat.com> Message-ID: <45A7D65F.3000003@leemhuis.info> Bill Nottingham schrieb: > Thorsten Leemhuis (fedora at leemhuis.info) said: >>> Devils advocate - if we really want this, why wouldn't wiki changes fall >>> into this list, aside from the infrastructure not really allowing for it? >>> If nothing else, walling off the fire hose of package commits from >>> other commits would be nice. >> fedora-commits-packages and fedora-commits then? > Possibly. Actually, to bring up a relevant other point - one thing > we're planning with the SCM merge is that each maintainer will > *automatically* get commits mailed for their packages, outside > of the full commits list. Yeah! Yes please please! But, btw, why only maintainers? Why not let each and everyone subscribe to the package of interest? > This might make fedora-commits-packages > (or fedora-package-commits - that reads better to me) 'more' > optional. Agreed. Still some people might want it... CU thl From notting at redhat.com Fri Jan 12 18:44:22 2007 From: notting at redhat.com (Bill Nottingham) Date: Fri, 12 Jan 2007 13:44:22 -0500 Subject: proposal: mailing list reorganization In-Reply-To: <45A7D65F.3000003@leemhuis.info> References: <45A52F85.5020408@leemhuis.info> <1168467152.3113.255.camel@erato.phig.org> <1168467472.4632.61.camel@aglarond.local> <20070111044739.GA2187@nostromo.devel.redhat.com> <45A6522E.1010005@leemhuis.info> <20070111155717.GC8108@nostromo.devel.redhat.com> <45A7D65F.3000003@leemhuis.info> Message-ID: <20070112184422.GB2935@nostromo.devel.redhat.com> Thorsten Leemhuis (fedora at leemhuis.info) said: > Yeah! Yes please please! > > But, btw, why only maintainers? Why not let each and everyone subscribe > to the package of interest? That should be doable. But the maintainer stuff should (and will) be done automatically. Bill From fedora at leemhuis.info Fri Jan 12 18:46:18 2007 From: fedora at leemhuis.info (Thorsten Leemhuis) Date: Fri, 12 Jan 2007 19:46:18 +0100 Subject: move lists to lists.fedoraproject.org? In-Reply-To: <3237e4410701110830h5f696bfes133ec3452decd551@mail.gmail.com> References: <45A52F85.5020408@leemhuis.info> <20070111160349.096ce5de@python3.es.egwn.lan> <45A656D4.7080609@leemhuis.info> <3237e4410701110830h5f696bfes133ec3452decd551@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <45A7D77A.6040205@leemhuis.info> Mike McGrath schrieb: > On 1/11/07, Thorsten Leemhuis wrote: >> Matthias Saou schrieb: >> Do we want to revisit that? Then the mailing list reorganization >> suddenly becomes a really big project. > Would it be worth it to do a clean cutover? Creating all new lists > and disabling the old ones. I'd prefer a slow move. Move those over that we want to touch first. After that the most important ones that want to be moved. The wait a bit if those that remain on the old server are really worth to bring over. CU thl From dlutter at redhat.com Fri Jan 12 18:53:11 2007 From: dlutter at redhat.com (David Lutterkort) Date: Fri, 12 Jan 2007 18:53:11 +0000 Subject: Fedora Server Spin In-Reply-To: <3237e4410701121027wec17be7r97e1bd65b5ca93da@mail.gmail.com> References: <1168558399.21083.42.camel@localhost.localdomain> <1168611190.2834.19.camel@localhost.localdomain> <1168616065.11006.18.camel@cutter> <1168626262.21083.93.camel@localhost.localdomain> <3237e4410701121027wec17be7r97e1bd65b5ca93da@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <1168627991.21083.115.camel@localhost.localdomain> On Fri, 2007-01-12 at 12:27 -0600, Mike McGrath wrote: > On 1/12/07, David Lutterkort wrote: > > On Fri, 2007-01-12 at 10:34 -0500, seth vidal wrote: > > The thing we are missing is some sort of agreement on what the server > > spin should be: I think everybody agrees that the minimal install you > > describe should be possible. The question is: what does the admin do > > afterwards ? If they install whatever they need over the newtwork why > > bother with a server spin to begin with ? We can just fiddle with @core > > a little and give them a kickstart file that produces the minimal > > install. > > Whats the difference between a minimal install and the 'single cd' spin? I would hope that a minimal install leaves some room on a single cd to be filled with useful things, e.g. things that aren't strictly in a minimal install but commonly used like cron or an smtp daemon. > > But what about a customized comps file ? Is that desirable for a server > > spin ? Absolutely; and to arrive at that we do need to talk about > > including TurboGears and lots of other packages that people use on their > > servers. > > > > We'll never appeal to everyone with the Server CD but we could stick > some common tools on there as we need. Honestly though I think the > 'single' CD is really what most of the server guys are looking for > anyway. What exactly is the use case here ? How is this single CD install much better than a boot CD that kicks you into a networked install ? What common tools do you envision for the server spin ? It sounds like this would be more a system rescue CD. David From jkeating at redhat.com Fri Jan 12 18:59:27 2007 From: jkeating at redhat.com (Jesse Keating) Date: Fri, 12 Jan 2007 13:59:27 -0500 Subject: Fedora Server Spin In-Reply-To: <3237e4410701121027wec17be7r97e1bd65b5ca93da@mail.gmail.com> References: <1168558399.21083.42.camel@localhost.localdomain> <1168626262.21083.93.camel@localhost.localdomain> <3237e4410701121027wec17be7r97e1bd65b5ca93da@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <200701121359.27910.jkeating@redhat.com> On Friday 12 January 2007 13:27, Mike McGrath wrote: > Whats the difference between a minimal install and the 'single cd' spin? One might be usable while the other might not, depending on what games you play with the term "minimal". We can deliver an install that gives you kernel, bash, and not much else. No rpm, no shadow stuff, no network stuff, none of that. It's "minimal", and could be useful to somebody. I don't want to play games with words. One person's minimal is another person's bloatware. > > But what about a customized comps file ? Is that desirable for a server > > spin ? Absolutely; and to arrive at that we do need to talk about > > including TurboGears and lots of other packages that people use on their > > servers. > > We'll never appeal to everyone with the Server CD but we could stick > some common tools on there as we need. ?Honestly though I think the > 'single' CD is really what most of the server guys are looking for > anyway. We can probably get to that. I'm intersted in seeing a well trimmed core/base that is the "default" install. It is not minimal, it has things like yum, and maybe a client or to for poking at the network. Then we have some groups for various server tasks that people can look into and select exactly what they want. Including some system-config-* stuff for managing these things, and the x/xauth libraries for running these over ssh (no X on the box). Also, no compiler. All those things are gainable by yum install after the fact, or enabling the monster repo during the install and checking those. That sounds like a "Server" spin to me. One thing we want to be very clear is that this is NOT designed for mission critical or even production systems, especially with just a 13month life span, and rapid adoption of new releases rather than backports. While it has the name "server" it means that this is useful if you're setting up a server, not that we're going to offer any kind of support, do anything different for the updates, etc... -- Jesse Keating Release Engineer: Fedora -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 189 bytes Desc: not available URL: From fedora at leemhuis.info Fri Jan 12 18:58:09 2007 From: fedora at leemhuis.info (Thorsten Leemhuis) Date: Fri, 12 Jan 2007 19:58:09 +0100 Subject: proposal: mailing list reorganization In-Reply-To: <45A72D6E.6020309@olen.net> References: <200701120514.l0C5EdYR014688@laptop13.inf.utfsm.cl> <45A72D6E.6020309@olen.net> Message-ID: <45A7DA41.8020805@leemhuis.info> Ola Thoresen schrieb: > Horst H. von Brand wrote: >> - Be consistent > I prefer the list name to reflect _who_ the list is for, not _what_ is > happening on the list. And I think this should be consistent. > > An exception to this rule is '-announce' lists that is ment solely for > announcements, so no discussions should happen there. > > So in my opinion we should have something like > > - fedora-users +1, but renaming fedora-list to fedora-users only makes sense if we move to a different host. BTW, do we want to keep the fedora prefix if we really want to switch to lists.fedoraproject.org (the switch is under discussion and early evaluation) > - fedora-devel-users I only got a few replies, but I tend to fedora-devel-users now again as well > - fedora-developers I now prefer fedora-developers over fedora-devel (which I used in my posted proposal) as well. Someone else suggested the same in private. > - fedora-maintainers > - fedora-advisory-board > - fedora-qa > > - fedora-cvs-announce > - fedora-maintainers-announce > > "fedora-maintainers" is my suggestion for the list you have named > "fedora-project", as I think it is less chance that it will be confused > with "fedora-users" with that name. No, maintainers is to confusing IMHO, especially as the current list has a different purpose than the planed fedora-project list. That's meant for all contributors (e.g. ambassadors, too, and those are not really "maintainers") > "fedora-maintainers-announce" should then be used by the maintainers to > annouce what they have decided for the future based on the discussions > on "fedora-maintainers". Those discussion will will probably held on fedora-development afaics. > For fedora-hardware/fedora-laptop I think most discussions should happen > in fedora-devel-users and fedora-users. If we really want a list for > hardware discussions it should be named something like > "fedora-hardware-testers" as I guess most discussion would be about > hardware that needs testing, not about hardware that is known to work or > more general "what is best, Nvidia or ATI?"-discussions. Yeah, maybe. > I believe this will make it more obvious what lists one would want to > subscribe to. Cu thl From fedora at leemhuis.info Fri Jan 12 19:13:25 2007 From: fedora at leemhuis.info (Thorsten Leemhuis) Date: Fri, 12 Jan 2007 20:13:25 +0100 Subject: proposal: mailing list reorganization In-Reply-To: <20070110204552.0e7e6327.zaitcev@redhat.com> References: <45A52F85.5020408@leemhuis.info> <20070110204552.0e7e6327.zaitcev@redhat.com> Message-ID: <45A7DDD5.708@leemhuis.info> Pete Zaitcev schrieb: > On Wed, 10 Jan 2007 19:25:09 +0100, Thorsten Leemhuis wrote: >> The other goal is to get rid of those lists: > Might as well kill fedora-patch-list too. It saw no uptake at all. That seems to be gone already afaics. Or I'm to stupid to find it again (I was even subscribed to it iirc). >> * fedora-devel -- For devel discussion. The "old" fedora-devel-list >> became quite noise and we want to avoid that with the new list. Thus the >> plan is to restrict it to well known open-source or project contributors >> and make it moderated for the rest of the world. Support questions >> regarding devel stuff are off topic here. > I question the assertion behind this. Fedora-devel-list is rather > quiet, considering the size of the project. Seems it was still to much and thus fedora-maintainers got created. But having two lists like that with related topics is IMHO more confusing than helpful... >> * fedora-devel-discuss -- We need an open devel list for users as >> fedora-devel is restricted. Support questions regarding devel stuff are >> on topic here, too. > Very dubious idea, but ok. > > My main problem with this proposal is that you're trying to recreate > the current system of fedora-maintainers and fedora-devel-list > with no change at all. [...] Now: fedora-devel-list (devel and users), fedora-test-list (users and a bit devel, too), fedora-maintainers (devel, private) Then: fedora-devel-discuss (users) fedora-devel (devel, semi-public) I think that's a lot better. >> === fedora-cvs-commits === >> >> All commits should go here, but separated into topics (web, docs, F7, >> devel, ...), similar how we do it for how we do for >> fedora-packaging-announce > Detail: how is it going to be separated? I'd hate to see more > square brackets in subjects. Mailman supports topics. You can (un)subscribe to them in the mailman web-interface. No stuff in subjects. >> === fedora-maintainers to fedora-devel === >> Rename to fedora-devel. Free to post for all fedora contributors (being >> in ambassadors, mentors, packagers, ...). Moderated for the rest of the >> world (we need a whole team of moderators for it). [...] > You know how easy it is to forge e-mail identities, don't you? Sure. But I'm quite sure most people won't do that. ;-) >> === Mailman guidelines === >> * the reply-to should point to the list (reply_goes_to_list = this list) > I hate that, but bow to the will of the majority. I override it > manually when I compose replies anyway. It's just an annoyance. Well, whatever we set, some people will be unhappy with it... And most of out current lists use it alreay, so I'd like to stick to it to not confuse people even more. >> * no tagging (subject_prefix = ) > Thanks for that at least. np :-) CU thl From fedora at leemhuis.info Fri Jan 12 19:16:06 2007 From: fedora at leemhuis.info (Thorsten Leemhuis) Date: Fri, 12 Jan 2007 20:16:06 +0100 Subject: proposal: mailing list reorganization In-Reply-To: <20070111044930.GB2187@nostromo.devel.redhat.com> References: <45A52F85.5020408@leemhuis.info> <20070110204552.0e7e6327.zaitcev@redhat.com> <20070111044930.GB2187@nostromo.devel.redhat.com> Message-ID: <45A7DE76.60909@leemhuis.info> Bill Nottingham schrieb: > Pete Zaitcev (zaitcev at redhat.com) said: >>> * fedora-devel -- For devel discussion. The "old" fedora-devel-list >>> became quite noise and we want to avoid that with the new list. Thus the >>> plan is to restrict it to well known open-source or project contributors >>> and make it moderated for the rest of the world. Support questions >>> regarding devel stuff are off topic here. >> I question the assertion behind this. Fedora-devel-list is rather >> quiet, considering the size of the project. >>> * fedora-devel-discuss -- We need an open devel list for users as >>> fedora-devel is restricted. Support questions regarding devel stuff are >>> on topic here, too. >> Very dubious idea, but ok. >> My main problem with this proposal is that you're trying to recreate >> the current system of fedora-maintainers and fedora-devel-list >> with no change at all. > This is my concern as well - I'd rather just repurpose as: > -maintainers: Announcements (freezes, policy changes, outages, etc.), and > related followup discussion. > -devel: devel discussions. My concern is that in above scenario the "related followup discussion" are on a closed list then where even well known open-source contributors can't participate. And it might happen that the same things get discussed on -devel an -maintainers at the same time. CU thl From skvidal at linux.duke.edu Fri Jan 12 19:39:39 2007 From: skvidal at linux.duke.edu (seth vidal) Date: Fri, 12 Jan 2007 14:39:39 -0500 Subject: Fedora Server Spin In-Reply-To: <3237e4410701121027wec17be7r97e1bd65b5ca93da@mail.gmail.com> References: <1168558399.21083.42.camel@localhost.localdomain> <1168611190.2834.19.camel@localhost.localdomain> <1168616065.11006.18.camel@cutter> <1168626262.21083.93.camel@localhost.localdomain> <3237e4410701121027wec17be7r97e1bd65b5ca93da@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <1168630779.11006.31.camel@cutter> On Fri, 2007-01-12 at 12:27 -0600, Mike McGrath wrote: > On 1/12/07, David Lutterkort wrote: > > On Fri, 2007-01-12 at 10:34 -0500, seth vidal wrote: > > The thing we are missing is some sort of agreement on what the server > > spin should be: I think everybody agrees that the minimal install you > > describe should be possible. The question is: what does the admin do > > afterwards ? If they install whatever they need over the newtwork why > > bother with a server spin to begin with ? We can just fiddle with @core > > a little and give them a kickstart file that produces the minimal > > install. > > Whats the difference between a minimal install and the 'single cd' spin? > > > > > But what about a customized comps file ? Is that desirable for a server > > spin ? Absolutely; and to arrive at that we do need to talk about > > including TurboGears and lots of other packages that people use on their > > servers. > > > > We'll never appeal to everyone with the Server CD but we could stick > some common tools on there as we need. Honestly though I think the > 'single' CD is really what most of the server guys are looking for > anyway. +1 -sv From skvidal at linux.duke.edu Fri Jan 12 19:42:06 2007 From: skvidal at linux.duke.edu (seth vidal) Date: Fri, 12 Jan 2007 14:42:06 -0500 Subject: Fedora Server Spin In-Reply-To: <200701121359.27910.jkeating@redhat.com> References: <1168558399.21083.42.camel@localhost.localdomain> <1168626262.21083.93.camel@localhost.localdomain> <3237e4410701121027wec17be7r97e1bd65b5ca93da@mail.gmail.com> <200701121359.27910.jkeating@redhat.com> Message-ID: <1168630926.11006.33.camel@cutter> On Fri, 2007-01-12 at 13:59 -0500, Jesse Keating wrote: > That sounds like a "Server" spin to me. > > One thing we want to be very clear is that this is NOT designed for mission > critical or even production systems, especially with just a 13month life > span, and rapid adoption of new releases rather than backports. While it has > the name "server" it means that this is useful if you're setting up a server, > not that we're going to offer any kind of support, do anything different for > the updates, etc... +1 -sv From notting at redhat.com Fri Jan 12 19:38:59 2007 From: notting at redhat.com (Bill Nottingham) Date: Fri, 12 Jan 2007 14:38:59 -0500 Subject: proposal: mailing list reorganization In-Reply-To: <45A7DE76.60909@leemhuis.info> References: <45A52F85.5020408@leemhuis.info> <20070110204552.0e7e6327.zaitcev@redhat.com> <20070111044930.GB2187@nostromo.devel.redhat.com> <45A7DE76.60909@leemhuis.info> Message-ID: <20070112193859.GB3451@nostromo.devel.redhat.com> Thorsten Leemhuis (fedora at leemhuis.info) said: > > This is my concern as well - I'd rather just repurpose as: > > -maintainers: Announcements (freezes, policy changes, outages, etc.), and > > related followup discussion. > > -devel: devel discussions. > > My concern is that in above scenario the "related followup discussion" > are on a closed list then where even well known open-source contributors > can't participate. And it might happen that the same things get > discussed on -devel an -maintainers at the same time. Not sure why freezes, packaging policy changes, outages are relevant to non-package maintainers. Bill From nicolas.mailhot at laposte.net Fri Jan 12 19:58:31 2007 From: nicolas.mailhot at laposte.net (Nicolas Mailhot) Date: Fri, 12 Jan 2007 20:58:31 +0100 Subject: proposal: mailing list reorganization In-Reply-To: <45A7DDD5.708@leemhuis.info> References: <45A52F85.5020408@leemhuis.info> <20070110204552.0e7e6327.zaitcev@redhat.com> <45A7DDD5.708@leemhuis.info> Message-ID: <1168631911.32564.70.camel@rousalka.dyndns.org> Le vendredi 12 janvier 2007 ? 20:13 +0100, Thorsten Leemhuis a ?crit : > Pete Zaitcev schrieb: > > On Wed, 10 Jan 2007 19:25:09 +0100, Thorsten Leemhuis wrote: > >> === fedora-cvs-commits === > >> > >> All commits should go here, but separated into topics (web, docs, F7, > >> devel, ...), similar how we do it for how we do for > >> fedora-packaging-announce > > Detail: how is it going to be separated? I'd hate to see more > > square brackets in subjects. > > Mailman supports topics. You can (un)subscribe to them in the mailman > web-interface. No stuff in subjects. Which will be of little help to someone that consults an online archive of the list at one of the popular ML web historians. -- Nicolas Mailhot -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: signature.asc Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 197 bytes Desc: Ceci est une partie de message num?riquement sign?e URL: From nicolas.mailhot at laposte.net Fri Jan 12 20:02:28 2007 From: nicolas.mailhot at laposte.net (Nicolas Mailhot) Date: Fri, 12 Jan 2007 21:02:28 +0100 Subject: proposal: mailing list reorganization In-Reply-To: <20070112193859.GB3451@nostromo.devel.redhat.com> References: <45A52F85.5020408@leemhuis.info> <20070110204552.0e7e6327.zaitcev@redhat.com> <20070111044930.GB2187@nostromo.devel.redhat.com> <45A7DE76.60909@leemhuis.info> <20070112193859.GB3451@nostromo.devel.redhat.com> Message-ID: <1168632148.32564.74.camel@rousalka.dyndns.org> Le vendredi 12 janvier 2007 ? 14:38 -0500, Bill Nottingham a ?crit : > Thorsten Leemhuis (fedora at leemhuis.info) said: > > > This is my concern as well - I'd rather just repurpose as: > > > -maintainers: Announcements (freezes, policy changes, outages, etc.), and > > > related followup discussion. > > > -devel: devel discussions. > > > > My concern is that in above scenario the "related followup discussion" > > are on a closed list then where even well known open-source contributors > > can't participate. And it might happen that the same things get > > discussed on -devel an -maintainers at the same time. > > Not sure why freezes, packaging policy changes, outages are relevant > to non-package maintainers. art, i18n & doc teams need to follow freezes and are impacted by some outages marketing/ambassador people need to explain the state of the project to the outside world (including outages sometimes) etc -- Nicolas Mailhot -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: signature.asc Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 197 bytes Desc: Ceci est une partie de message num?riquement sign?e URL: From katzj at redhat.com Fri Jan 12 20:05:18 2007 From: katzj at redhat.com (Jeremy Katz) Date: Fri, 12 Jan 2007 15:05:18 -0500 Subject: Fedora Server Spin In-Reply-To: <200701121359.27910.jkeating@redhat.com> References: <1168558399.21083.42.camel@localhost.localdomain> <1168626262.21083.93.camel@localhost.localdomain> <3237e4410701121027wec17be7r97e1bd65b5ca93da@mail.gmail.com> <200701121359.27910.jkeating@redhat.com> Message-ID: <1168632318.15641.28.camel@aglarond.local> On Fri, 2007-01-12 at 13:59 -0500, Jesse Keating wrote: > We can probably get to that. I'm intersted in seeing a well trimmed core/base > that is the "default" install. It is not minimal, it has things like yum, > and maybe a client or to for poking at the network. Then we have some groups > for various server tasks that people can look into and select exactly what > they want. Including some system-config-* stuff for managing these things, > and the x/xauth libraries for running these over ssh (no X on the box). > Also, no compiler. All those things are gainable by yum install after the > fact, or enabling the monster repo during the install and checking those. > > That sounds like a "Server" spin to me. So, how do you expect this to actually be useful to someone who's new to Fedora and Linux? There's an absolutely huge number of server admins who aren't "unix geeks" that could be a very good target for the Fedora server spin. But they're not going to know about ssh, or X forwarding or anything like that. Instead, they're going to get through the install[1], be confronted with a login prompt on a black screen and say "what is this crap?". And that's ignoring questions about supporting people in other parts of the world who's text can't even be displayed on the console. Jeremy From yaneti at declera.com Fri Jan 12 20:21:25 2007 From: yaneti at declera.com (Yanko Kaneti) Date: Fri, 12 Jan 2007 22:21:25 +0200 Subject: Fedora Server Spin In-Reply-To: <1168558399.21083.42.camel@localhost.localdomain> References: <1168558399.21083.42.camel@localhost.localdomain> Message-ID: <1168633285.4752.6.camel@indigo.declera.com> On Thu, 2007-01-11 at 15:33 -0800, David Lutterkort wrote: > I created an initial skeleton list of packages[1] for the Fedora Serevr > spin [2]. The list was generated by looking at all the packages ('server > packages') in current Core and Extras Rawhide that own a file > in /etc/rc.d/init.d or /etc/init.d. > The list is a first attempt at getting a package list together and needs > a lot more love from everybody; once this list is complete we'll look at > adding supporting packages like system-config-* and sendmail-cf. some essentials for a networked host. traceroute mtr bind-utils perhaps jwhois finger ----- Yanko From benny+usenet at amorsen.dk Fri Jan 12 20:37:56 2007 From: benny+usenet at amorsen.dk (Benny Amorsen) Date: 12 Jan 2007 21:37:56 +0100 Subject: Fedora Server Spin References: <1168558399.21083.42.camel@localhost.localdomain> <1168626262.21083.93.camel@localhost.localdomain> <3237e4410701121027wec17be7r97e1bd65b5ca93da@mail.gmail.com> <200701121359.27910.jkeating@redhat.com> Message-ID: >>>>> "JK" == Jesse Keating writes: JK> One might be usable while the other might not, depending on what JK> games you play with the term "minimal". We can deliver an install JK> that gives you kernel, bash, and not much else. Excellent. That would mean no more excluding in kickstart. Personally I would add networking and rpm, but that should be reasonably easy with kickstart -- whereas excluding is an eternal battle which has to be repeated for each Fedora release. /Benny From Curtis at GreenKey.net Fri Jan 12 20:40:25 2007 From: Curtis at GreenKey.net (Curtis Doty) Date: Fri, 12 Jan 2007 12:40:25 -0800 (PST) Subject: Fedora Server Spin In-Reply-To: <1168630926.11006.33.camel@cutter> References: <1168558399.21083.42.camel@localhost.localdomain> <1168626262.21083.93.camel@localhost.localdomain> <3237e4410701121027wec17be7r97e1bd65b5ca93da@mail.gmail.com> <200701121359.27910.jkeating@redhat.com> <1168630926.11006.33.camel@cutter> Message-ID: <20070112204026.2B4356F06E@alopias.GreenKey.net> 2:42pm seth vidal said: > On Fri, 2007-01-12 at 13:59 -0500, Jesse Keating wrote: > > > That sounds like a "Server" spin to me. > > > > One thing we want to be very clear is that this is NOT designed for mission > > critical or even production systems, especially with just a 13month life > > span, and rapid adoption of new releases rather than backports. While it has > > the name "server" it means that this is useful if you're setting up a server, > > not that we're going to offer any kind of support, do anything different for > > the updates, etc... > > +1 > > -sv > Sure, but a rapid devel cycle is no excuse for a crappy OS. :-/ Consider that if the Fedora 7 Server has the admittedly idealistic goal of being mission critical--for just 13 months--it would be much better quality for *any* use. ../C From pemboa at gmail.com Fri Jan 12 19:05:41 2007 From: pemboa at gmail.com (Arthur Pemberton) Date: Fri, 12 Jan 2007 13:05:41 -0600 Subject: Fedora Server Spin In-Reply-To: <1168627991.21083.115.camel@localhost.localdomain> References: <1168558399.21083.42.camel@localhost.localdomain> <1168611190.2834.19.camel@localhost.localdomain> <1168616065.11006.18.camel@cutter> <1168626262.21083.93.camel@localhost.localdomain> <3237e4410701121027wec17be7r97e1bd65b5ca93da@mail.gmail.com> <1168627991.21083.115.camel@localhost.localdomain> Message-ID: <16de708d0701121105j3a319c93rc6e07e45bc35de55@mail.gmail.com> On 1/12/07, David Lutterkort wrote: > On Fri, 2007-01-12 at 12:27 -0600, Mike McGrath wrote: > > On 1/12/07, David Lutterkort wrote: > > > On Fri, 2007-01-12 at 10:34 -0500, seth vidal wrote: > > > The thing we are missing is some sort of agreement on what the server > > > spin should be: I think everybody agrees that the minimal install you > > > describe should be possible. The question is: what does the admin do > > > afterwards ? If they install whatever they need over the newtwork why > > > bother with a server spin to begin with ? We can just fiddle with @core > > > a little and give them a kickstart file that produces the minimal > > > install. > > > > Whats the difference between a minimal install and the 'single cd' spin? > > I would hope that a minimal install leaves some room on a single cd to > be filled with useful things, e.g. things that aren't strictly in a > minimal install but commonly used like cron or an smtp daemon. > > > > But what about a customized comps file ? Is that desirable for a server > > > spin ? Absolutely; and to arrive at that we do need to talk about > > > including TurboGears and lots of other packages that people use on their > > > servers. > > > > > > > We'll never appeal to everyone with the Server CD but we could stick > > some common tools on there as we need. Honestly though I think the > > 'single' CD is really what most of the server guys are looking for > > anyway. > > What exactly is the use case here ? How is this single CD install much > better than a boot CD that kicks you into a networked install ? > > What common tools do you envision for the server spin ? It sounds like > this would be more a system rescue CD. > > David > How about we get an idea oh how much media space a "only essential" spin takes, and work from there to vote on additional packages up to the 650MB mark. -- Fedora Core 6 and proud From jkeating at redhat.com Fri Jan 12 21:30:34 2007 From: jkeating at redhat.com (Jesse Keating) Date: Fri, 12 Jan 2007 16:30:34 -0500 Subject: Fedora Server Spin In-Reply-To: <1168632318.15641.28.camel@aglarond.local> References: <1168558399.21083.42.camel@localhost.localdomain> <200701121359.27910.jkeating@redhat.com> <1168632318.15641.28.camel@aglarond.local> Message-ID: <200701121630.37656.jkeating@redhat.com> On Friday 12 January 2007 15:05, Jeremy Katz wrote: > So, how do you expect this to actually be useful to someone who's new to > Fedora and Linux? ?There's an absolutely huge number of server admins > who aren't "unix geeks" that could be a very good target for the Fedora > server spin. ?But they're not going to know about ssh, or X forwarding > or anything like that. ?Instead, they're going to get through the > install[1], be confronted with a login prompt on a black screen and say > "what is this crap?". > > And that's ignoring questions about supporting people in other parts of > the world who's text can't even be displayed on the console. Then we get into the realm of a Desktop spin with Server stuff added. Not a Server spin. If that's what "we" want out of a Server spin, so be it, I wouldn't want to call it a "Server" spin. We'd be somewhere close to Core again. -- Jesse Keating Release Engineer: Fedora -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 189 bytes Desc: not available URL: From jaroslav at aster.pl Fri Jan 12 21:57:26 2007 From: jaroslav at aster.pl (Jaroslaw Gorny) Date: Fri, 12 Jan 2007 22:57:26 +0100 Subject: Fedora Server Spin In-Reply-To: <1168558399.21083.42.camel@localhost.localdomain> References: <1168558399.21083.42.camel@localhost.localdomain> Message-ID: <200701122257.35214.jaroslav@aster.pl> Hi, Dnia pi?tek, 12 stycznia 2007 00:33, David Lutterkort napisa?: > I created an initial skeleton list of packages[1] for the Fedora Serevr > spin [2]. Please forgive me for being maybe a little off-topic here, but I just want to ask a question about general philosophy behind 'Server' spin. Now Fedora releases are supported for relatively short time, even when fedoralegacy is being concerned. The same time _upgrade_ from version N to N+1 is officially _not_ advised <- all official documents clearly state that (including FC6). Users are encouraged to do a fresh install instead. Especially, uprade on running system, using sth. like # rpm -Uhv http://*/fedora-release*.rpm && yum update is considered as insecure. Of course I've managed to upgrade couple of desktop machines from FC5 to FC6 this way and they work OK, but they were not very important systems. IMHO such a situation, when you are advised to _not_ upgrade but do a fresh install instead is not acceptable for distribution that wants to be called 'server'. So my question is: is there any plan to change this situation? - provide some 'guarantee' to do successfull upgrade with yum, or extend support? -- Jaroslaw Gorny -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 189 bytes Desc: not available URL: From dlutter at redhat.com Fri Jan 12 22:05:50 2007 From: dlutter at redhat.com (David Lutterkort) Date: Fri, 12 Jan 2007 22:05:50 +0000 Subject: Fedora Server Spin In-Reply-To: <200701121630.37656.jkeating@redhat.com> References: <1168558399.21083.42.camel@localhost.localdomain> <200701121359.27910.jkeating@redhat.com> <1168632318.15641.28.camel@aglarond.local> <200701121630.37656.jkeating@redhat.com> Message-ID: <1168639551.21083.137.camel@localhost.localdomain> On Fri, 2007-01-12 at 16:30 -0500, Jesse Keating wrote: > Then we get into the realm of a Desktop spin with Server stuff added. Not a > Server spin. If that's what "we" want out of a Server spin, so be it, I > wouldn't want to call it a "Server" spin. We'd be somewhere close to Core > again. Let's not forget that just because something is included in the spin doesn't mean it has to be installed by every user of FSS. As much as I cringe at the thought of having a graphical UI on a server, I think there are potential users of FSS (ppl with locales that don't work well on text consoles, ppl who come from another OS and are just too used to a graphical UI) that it makes sense to include that as an option or even the default if we can detect that the install seems to be for somebody that would want a GUI on their server. David From dlutter at redhat.com Fri Jan 12 22:10:56 2007 From: dlutter at redhat.com (David Lutterkort) Date: Fri, 12 Jan 2007 14:10:56 -0800 Subject: Fedora Server Spin In-Reply-To: <200701122257.35214.jaroslav@aster.pl> References: <1168558399.21083.42.camel@localhost.localdomain> <200701122257.35214.jaroslav@aster.pl> Message-ID: <1168639856.21083.142.camel@localhost.localdomain> On Fri, 2007-01-12 at 22:57 +0100, Jaroslaw Gorny wrote: > IMHO such a situation, when you are advised to _not_ upgrade but do a fresh > install instead is not acceptable for distribution that wants to be > called 'server'. > > So my question is: is there any plan to change this situation? - provide > some 'guarantee' to do successfull upgrade with yum, or extend support? The support around Fedora Server will be exactly the same as that for all of Fedora (or any of the other planned variants) Think of the term 'server' as an indication of intended audience and use. At the same time, we'd love for anybody to contribute to FSS or Fedora in general to make it more like what they'd want it to be like (e.g., by working on the update issues you mention) David From jkeating at redhat.com Fri Jan 12 22:12:03 2007 From: jkeating at redhat.com (Jesse Keating) Date: Fri, 12 Jan 2007 17:12:03 -0500 Subject: Fedora Server Spin In-Reply-To: <200701121630.37656.jkeating@redhat.com> References: <1168558399.21083.42.camel@localhost.localdomain> <1168632318.15641.28.camel@aglarond.local> <200701121630.37656.jkeating@redhat.com> Message-ID: <200701121712.03181.jkeating@redhat.com> On Friday 12 January 2007 16:30, Jesse Keating wrote: > Then we get into the realm of a Desktop spin with Server stuff added. ?Not > a Server spin. ?If that's what "we" want out of a Server spin, so be it, I > wouldn't want to call it a "Server" spin. ?We'd be somewhere close to Core > again. I take this back, rather reactionary. Of course it's not Desktop + Server stuff, we'd not have a lot of the Desktop stuff in there. X, minimal Gnome desktop, system-config-*, and translations/fonts for languages/locals. Could still be significantly smaller than the Desktop spin. I'd certainly be interested in seeing what a compose based on a comps like this would look like. I still don't think a desktop should be default, is there a way to make that happen should you pick a specific language? -- Jesse Keating Release Engineer: Fedora -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 189 bytes Desc: not available URL: From steve at silug.org Fri Jan 12 22:34:23 2007 From: steve at silug.org (Steven Pritchard) Date: Fri, 12 Jan 2007 16:34:23 -0600 Subject: Fedora Server Spin In-Reply-To: <1168571371.21083.78.camel@localhost.localdomain> References: <1168558399.21083.42.camel@localhost.localdomain> <16de708d0701111724i79c29312o762aa265a0d60a18@mail.gmail.com> <16de708d0701111727u72ec404ewa5c115b31dcbda12@mail.gmail.com> <1168571371.21083.78.camel@localhost.localdomain> Message-ID: <20070112223423.GA13399@osiris.silug.org> On Fri, Jan 12, 2007 at 03:09:31AM +0000, David Lutterkort wrote: > Is that a separate client or would one of the other ddns clients do ? It > has to be packaged for Fedora before we can talk about it here ;) I've used ez-ipupdate (in Extras) on a few firewalls. Steve -- Steven Pritchard - K&S Pritchard Enterprises, Inc. Email: steve at kspei.com http://www.kspei.com/ Phone: (618)398-3000 Mobile: (618)567-7320 From steve at silug.org Fri Jan 12 22:40:42 2007 From: steve at silug.org (Steven Pritchard) Date: Fri, 12 Jan 2007 16:40:42 -0600 Subject: Fedora Server Spin In-Reply-To: References: <1168558399.21083.42.camel@localhost.localdomain> Message-ID: <20070112224042.GB13399@osiris.silug.org> On Fri, Jan 12, 2007 at 10:05:22AM +0000, Bojan Smojver wrote: > Would be great to put horde, imp and friends on the list too (i.e. webmail > essentials :-). On that note, it might be useful to look at anything that drops files in /etc/httpd/conf.d/ as potential additions. Steve -- Steven Pritchard - K&S Pritchard Enterprises, Inc. Email: steve at kspei.com http://www.kspei.com/ Phone: (618)398-3000 Mobile: (618)567-7320 From jdogalt at yahoo.com Fri Jan 12 22:51:16 2007 From: jdogalt at yahoo.com (Jane Dogalt) Date: Fri, 12 Jan 2007 14:51:16 -0800 (PST) Subject: Fedora Dev Spin/Strain Message-ID: <20070112225116.98405.qmail@web56901.mail.re3.yahoo.com> I recently outlined the simplest example of my ongoing pursuit of trivially self-replicating (and modifying) livecd distributions. I.e. the goal of having an fc8 installable blu-ray(whatever) which also behaves as a livecd, which can regenerate itself with arbitrary modifications via simple 1-click/simple user interface. Going further down this line of thought, takes me to this outline for the ultimate fedora8 development distribution livedvd image- In addition to the above features, the livedvd environment should- 1) have a full copy of the source repo (src rpms). 1B) It would be better to also have a full copy of the cvs/svn/git/whatever repository that builds the srcrpms repo from network upstream sources (presumably via 1click/commandline non-interactive interface) 2) have a version of pungi or whatever that non-interactively inputs (1) and outputs the full binary repository. 2B) with an option for using qemu-ppc to generate even the other binary repositories (after quite a bit of unattended gratuitous power consumption) 3) a tool like pilgrim or what I'm working on that inputs (2) and outputs an installable livedvd image. I.e. the environment you are using to build this new modified version. 4) now here is where I'm really asking for a lot: Now that you have every line of source code on this self replicating dvd, I would also like to see a database where literally every bit(/line of source code) on the dvd is associated with a maintainer/upstream-maintainer. Such that at any point any developer (or bright kid) with sufficient skill, can dig into any bug they find, down to the relevent lines of source, and then trivially get that information and/or patch to the correct upstream owner. 5) As I've been harping all for some time, you also want the feature to virtually run new output livedvds (in qemu/etc). 6) what (5) is really for, is to facilitate fully automated regression tests. In addition to being self-reproducable and self-debuggable, they should be viciously self-testing as well. 7) the reason that all of this hasn't been done so far, is (a) its quite complicated tying a lot of this together. but imho this is just a level of maturity that fedora just hasn't achieved yet, but its getting close. and (b) on current hardware this is maybe a runtime of a week or more. But this is where you also want to bring in the tools to trivially allow this livedvd to boot an entire cluster of xbox's on a lan, and give you trivial 1-button interface to rebuild/reproduce all in such a distributed system. Likewise, this may just take 30 minutes to run on a middle-class laptop 10 years from now, and can be the official new 'order a pizza' step in the compile your own kernel(&now distro) howto. -dmc/jdog ____________________________________________________________________________________ Have a burning question? Go to www.Answers.yahoo.com and get answers from real people who know. From dlutter at redhat.com Fri Jan 12 23:20:01 2007 From: dlutter at redhat.com (David Lutterkort) Date: Fri, 12 Jan 2007 23:20:01 +0000 Subject: Fedora Server Spin In-Reply-To: <20070112224042.GB13399@osiris.silug.org> References: <1168558399.21083.42.camel@localhost.localdomain> <20070112224042.GB13399@osiris.silug.org> Message-ID: <1168644001.21083.149.camel@localhost.localdomain> On Fri, 2007-01-12 at 16:40 -0600, Steven Pritchard wrote: > On Fri, Jan 12, 2007 at 10:05:22AM +0000, Bojan Smojver wrote: > > Would be great to put horde, imp and friends on the list too (i.e. webmail > > essentials :-). > > On that note, it might be useful to look at anything that drops files > in /etc/httpd/conf.d/ as potential additions. Agreed; that would also catch TurboGears etc. (or at least apps that use TurboGears, i.e. the reasons why ppl install TurboGears on servers) David From vonbrand at inf.utfsm.cl Sat Jan 13 00:14:00 2007 From: vonbrand at inf.utfsm.cl (Horst H. von Brand) Date: Fri, 12 Jan 2007 21:14:00 -0300 Subject: Fedora Server Spin In-Reply-To: Message from Matthias Saou of "Fri, 12 Jan 2007 16:39:16 BST." <20070112163916.109d4d9b@python3.es.egwn.lan> Message-ID: <200701130014.l0D0E05U008011@laptop13.inf.utfsm.cl> Matthias Saou wrote: > seth vidal wrote : > > okay this is insane. This is a server install. Let's have a single cd of > > almost nothing. Yep. > > A server install should be @Core, openssh-server, yum and that's pretty > > much it. Need a bit more... [...] > > ultra-clean - as servers should be. Then when you install a service > > package you can enable the service and you know that your server is > > setup properly: Only things you need are enabled. > Sounds pretty much like I'd expect it to be too :-) As default install, totally agree. But not as the final selection of packages on the CD(s). > I wouldn't mind a few client applications, though, especially the few > which would allow debugging any kind of failure to install packages > using yum. So that would possibly mean an HTTP client to check outgoing > port 80 connectivity, or maybe just the "telnet" client. Better netcat (nc(1)). -- Dr. Horst H. von Brand User #22616 counter.li.org Departamento de Informatica Fono: +56 32 2654431 Universidad Tecnica Federico Santa Maria +56 32 2654239 Casilla 110-V, Valparaiso, Chile Fax: +56 32 2797513 From vonbrand at inf.utfsm.cl Sat Jan 13 00:15:59 2007 From: vonbrand at inf.utfsm.cl (Horst H. von Brand) Date: Fri, 12 Jan 2007 21:15:59 -0300 Subject: Fedora Server Spin In-Reply-To: Your message of "Fri, 12 Jan 2007 18:24:22 -0000." <1168626262.21083.93.camel@localhost.localdomain> Message-ID: <200701130016.l0D0Fx7H008053@laptop13.inf.utfsm.cl> David Lutterkort wrote: [...] > But what about a customized comps file ? Is that desirable for a server > spin ? Absolutely; and to arrive at that we do need to talk about > including TurboGears and lots of other packages that people use on their > servers. You don't develop o a server, do you? -- Dr. Horst H. von Brand User #22616 counter.li.org Departamento de Informatica Fono: +56 32 2654431 Universidad Tecnica Federico Santa Maria +56 32 2654239 Casilla 110-V, Valparaiso, Chile Fax: +56 32 2797513 From vonbrand at inf.utfsm.cl Sat Jan 13 00:24:20 2007 From: vonbrand at inf.utfsm.cl (Horst H. von Brand) Date: Fri, 12 Jan 2007 21:24:20 -0300 Subject: Fedora Server Spin In-Reply-To: Your message of "Fri, 12 Jan 2007 22:21:25 +0200." <1168633285.4752.6.camel@indigo.declera.com> Message-ID: <200701130024.l0D0OK9T008203@laptop13.inf.utfsm.cl> Yanko Kaneti wrote: [...] > some essentials for a networked host. > > traceroute > mtr > bind-utils nc > perhaps > > jwhois > finger elinks Perhaps a look at minimal distros such as INSERT would be useful. -- Dr. Horst H. von Brand User #22616 counter.li.org Departamento de Informatica Fono: +56 32 2654431 Universidad Tecnica Federico Santa Maria +56 32 2654239 Casilla 110-V, Valparaiso, Chile Fax: +56 32 2797513 From dlutter at redhat.com Sat Jan 13 01:42:09 2007 From: dlutter at redhat.com (David Lutterkort) Date: Sat, 13 Jan 2007 01:42:09 +0000 Subject: Fedora Server Spin In-Reply-To: <200701130016.l0D0Fx7H008053@laptop13.inf.utfsm.cl> References: <200701130016.l0D0Fx7H008053@laptop13.inf.utfsm.cl> Message-ID: <1168652529.21083.161.camel@localhost.localdomain> On Fri, 2007-01-12 at 21:15 -0300, Horst H. von Brand wrote: > David Lutterkort wrote: > > [...] > > > But what about a customized comps file ? Is that desirable for a server > > spin ? Absolutely; and to arrive at that we do need to talk about > > including TurboGears and lots of other packages that people use on their > > servers. > > You don't develop o a server, do you? No, but you might run applications that do use packages like TurboGears, not all of which will be packaged in Fedora (think inhouse apps) David From pemboa at gmail.com Sat Jan 13 02:10:39 2007 From: pemboa at gmail.com (Arthur Pemberton) Date: Sat, 13 Jan 2007 20:10:39 +1800 Subject: Fedora Server Spin In-Reply-To: <20070112223423.GA13399@osiris.silug.org> References: <1168558399.21083.42.camel@localhost.localdomain> <16de708d0701111724i79c29312o762aa265a0d60a18@mail.gmail.com> <16de708d0701111727u72ec404ewa5c115b31dcbda12@mail.gmail.com> <1168571371.21083.78.camel@localhost.localdomain> <20070112223423.GA13399@osiris.silug.org> Message-ID: <16de708d0701121810m28628474oabec0936b3c7f5fc@mail.gmail.com> On 1/13/07, Steven Pritchard wrote: > On Fri, Jan 12, 2007 at 03:09:31AM +0000, David Lutterkort wrote: > > Is that a separate client or would one of the other ddns clients do ? It > > has to be packaged for Fedora before we can talk about it here ;) > > I've used ez-ipupdate (in Extras) on a few firewalls. > > Steve Fair enough. But doesn't support the service that I tend to use however. noip.com -- Fedora Core 6 and proud From jwilliam at xmission.com Sat Jan 13 06:57:14 2007 From: jwilliam at xmission.com (Jerry Williams) Date: Fri, 12 Jan 2007 23:57:14 -0700 Subject: yum roll back option? Message-ID: <000001c736e0$0ebd9c30$020aa8c0@a18> Since there has been a lot of talk about servers. I was wondering about a way to recover back to a previous working system. The yum updates that I installed today broke my 3c590 network card. I can look at /var/log/yum.log and see what was installed, but I am not sure what versions I had before that. I ended up swapping the network card with a 3c905 card and it works okay. The only thing I can think to do is do a rpm -qa >rpm.txt before I run yum and then one after so I can do a diff on the files and know what the previous version was. On other unix boxes I work on there is the option to save files that are replaced and then you can clean that out after you know things are working. Or if things don't work you can put those files back. Also might be nice to change the yum.log to show what version was updated to the new version instead of just what the new version is. Example: /var/log/yum.log Jan 12 19:59:10 Updated: tar.i386 2:1.15.1-24.fc6 Would look like: Jan 12 19:59:10 Updated: tar.i386 1.15.1-23.fc6 2:1.15.1-24.fc6 From jspaleta at gmail.com Sat Jan 13 07:07:08 2007 From: jspaleta at gmail.com (Jeff Spaleta) Date: Fri, 12 Jan 2007 22:07:08 -0900 Subject: yum roll back option? In-Reply-To: <000001c736e0$0ebd9c30$020aa8c0@a18> References: <000001c736e0$0ebd9c30$020aa8c0@a18> Message-ID: <604aa7910701122307y5edb939dr412da3ded8370007@mail.gmail.com> On 1/12/07, Jerry Williams wrote: > I was wondering about a way to recover back to a previous working system. > The yum updates that I installed today broke my 3c590 network card. > I can look at /var/log/yum.log and see what was installed, but I am not sure > what versions I had before that. > I ended up swapping the network card with a 3c905 card and it works okay. > The only thing I can think to do is do a rpm -qa >rpm.txt before I run yum > and then one after so I can do a diff on the files and know what the > previous version was. Have you been grepping through your archive or rpmpkgs logs? The yum log is not necessarily sufficient for all admin actions. I can't speak for you but in my own experience I can't always do everything I need to do via yum and I have to resort to using rpm directly on occasion to include things like non-distributable content. /etc/cron.daily/rpm is already present and it should be running on your servers and provides a nightly log of the installed package set. If you look at the previous day's rpmpkg log wouldn't that give you the information you need? -jef From jwilliam at xmission.com Sat Jan 13 07:56:17 2007 From: jwilliam at xmission.com (Jerry Williams) Date: Sat, 13 Jan 2007 00:56:17 -0700 Subject: yum roll back option? In-Reply-To: <604aa7910701122307y5edb939dr412da3ded8370007@mail.gmail.com> References: <000001c736e0$0ebd9c30$020aa8c0@a18> <604aa7910701122307y5edb939dr412da3ded8370007@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <000101c736e8$4effad80$020aa8c0@a18> > -----Original Message----- > From: fedora-devel-list-bounces at redhat.com [mailto:fedora-devel-list- > bounces at redhat.com] On Behalf Of Jeff Spaleta > Sent: Saturday, January 13, 2007 12:07 AM > To: Development discussions related to Fedora Core > Subject: Re: yum roll back option? > > On 1/12/07, Jerry Williams wrote: > > I was wondering about a way to recover back to a previous working > system. > > The yum updates that I installed today broke my 3c590 network card. > > I can look at /var/log/yum.log and see what was installed, but I am not > sure > > what versions I had before that. > > I ended up swapping the network card with a 3c905 card and it works > okay. > > The only thing I can think to do is do a rpm -qa >rpm.txt before I run > yum > > and then one after so I can do a diff on the files and know what the > > previous version was. > > Have you been grepping through your archive or rpmpkgs logs? The yum > log is not necessarily sufficient for all admin actions. I can't speak > for you but in my own experience I can't always do everything I need > to do via yum and I have to resort to using rpm directly on occasion > to include things like non-distributable content. > > /etc/cron.daily/rpm is already present and it should be running on > your servers and provides a nightly log of the installed package set. > If you look at the previous day's rpmpkg log wouldn't that give you > the information you need? > > -jef Thanks Jeff, I really didn't post here to try and fix my problem, more to look at the whole picture. If you break your server and lots of people depend on it then that is a bad thing. And it is hard to have an identical machine sitting there to test on. I would like to see Fedora 7 more robust so that it would be easy to recover from a problem like this. Does rpm need to be fixed to keep a previous version or something else? What if rpm had a cache that it would keep the previous version and the current version? And maybe an option to purge the previous version. That is looking like I should be keeping a copy of all the rpms on my system so I don't have to try and get them on the system after a problem. I got lucky and was going to replace the network card anyway, but it was the external nic on my firewall so now I have to play games to be able to get to the internet to get the previous versions of the rpms if I didn't have another card that would work. I guess another option would be to not do 34 updates at a time. Maybe pick some that you thing are safe and then update them and reboot. And then do some more. I didn't have to reboot when I did the update, but I wouldn't have known I had a problem if I didn't. So now all I have to do is look at each of the 34 packages and get the previous version and then put my old network card back and then update one at a time and stop and start the network until it breaks. I am thinking it was like a glibc or libxxx or maybe unix-utils. Jan 12 19:55:57 Updated: libgcc.i386 4.1.1-51.fc6 Jan 12 19:57:10 Updated: glibc-common.i386 2.5-10.fc6 Jan 12 19:57:35 Updated: glibc.i686 2.5-10.fc6 Jan 12 19:57:44 Updated: mono-core.i386 1.1.17.1-4.fc6 Jan 12 19:57:45 Updated: libstdc++.i386 4.1.1-51.fc6 Jan 12 19:57:48 Updated: mono-data.i386 1.1.17.1-4.fc6 Jan 12 19:57:53 Updated: gimp-print.i386 4.2.7-23.fc6 Jan 12 19:57:54 Updated: libgomp.i386 4.1.1-51.fc6 Jan 12 19:57:55 Updated: libgfortran.i386 4.1.1-51.fc6 Jan 12 19:57:58 Updated: gawk.i386 3.1.5-13.fc6 Jan 12 19:58:02 Updated: shadow-utils.i386 2:4.0.17-11.fc6 Jan 12 19:58:06 Updated: glibc-headers.i386 2.5-10.fc6 Jan 12 19:58:09 Updated: glibc-devel.i386 2.5-10.fc6 Jan 12 19:58:11 Updated: mono-web.i386 1.1.17.1-4.fc6 Jan 12 19:58:29 Updated: libgcj.i386 4.1.1-51.fc6 Jan 12 19:58:43 Updated: libstdc++-devel.i386 4.1.1-51.fc6 Jan 12 19:58:45 Updated: postgresql-libs.i386 8.1.6-1.fc6 Jan 12 19:58:49 Updated: lm_sensors.i386 2.10.1-1.fc6 Jan 12 19:58:51 Updated: cpp.i386 4.1.1-51.fc6 Jan 12 19:58:54 Updated: gcc.i386 4.1.1-51.fc6 Jan 12 19:58:59 Updated: selinux-policy.noarch 2.4.6-23.fc6 Jan 12 19:59:01 Updated: gcc-gfortran.i386 4.1.1-51.fc6 Jan 12 19:59:01 Updated: gimp-print-utils.i386 4.2.7-23.fc6 Jan 12 19:59:03 Updated: gcc-c++.i386 4.1.1-51.fc6 Jan 12 19:59:05 Updated: wget.i386 1.10.2-8.fc6.1 Jan 12 19:59:06 Updated: cpuspeed.i386 1:1.2.1-1.46.fc6 Jan 12 19:59:08 Updated: autofs.i386 1:5.0.1-0.rc3.2 Jan 12 19:59:09 Updated: m4.i386 1.4.5-4 Jan 12 19:59:10 Updated: tar.i386 2:1.15.1-24.fc6 Jan 12 19:59:11 Updated: mono-data-sqlite.i386 1.1.17.1-4.fc6 Jan 12 19:59:13 Updated: nscd.i386 2.5-10.fc6 Jan 12 19:59:16 Updated: util-linux.i386 2.13-0.45.4.fc6 Jan 12 19:59:52 Updated: selinux-policy-targeted.noarch 2.4.6-23.fc6 Jan 12 19:59:53 Updated: jpackage-utils.noarch 1.7.3-1jpp.2.fc6 From pemboa at gmail.com Sat Jan 13 08:44:54 2007 From: pemboa at gmail.com (Arthur Pemberton) Date: Sat, 13 Jan 2007 02:44:54 -0600 Subject: yum roll back option? In-Reply-To: <000101c736e8$4effad80$020aa8c0@a18> References: <000001c736e0$0ebd9c30$020aa8c0@a18> <604aa7910701122307y5edb939dr412da3ded8370007@mail.gmail.com> <000101c736e8$4effad80$020aa8c0@a18> Message-ID: <16de708d0701130044o7f31df7cm15767f1e9fd6d983@mail.gmail.com> On 1/13/07, Jerry Williams wrote: > > -----Original Message----- [...] > Thanks Jeff, > I really didn't post here to try and fix my problem, more to look at the > whole picture. If you break your server and lots of people depend on it > then that is a bad thing. And it is hard to have an identical machine > sitting there to test on. I would like to see Fedora 7 more robust so that > it would be easy to recover from a problem like this. Does rpm need to be > fixed to keep a previous version or something else? What if rpm had a cache > that it would keep the previous version and the current version? And maybe > an option to purge the previous version. > > That is looking like I should be keeping a copy of all the rpms on my system > so I don't have to try and get them on the system after a problem. While I sympathize with your situation. I think your suggestion brings RPM way beyond what it should be doing, into the realm of Yum.You can have yum cache all files that are downloaded. And unless you do an http `rpm -i`, you should have a copy of an RPM, it would then be up to you to store it safely. Alone those lines, I was quite dissapointed to find out that Fedora had changed the yum default of caching downloaded RPMs to not caching them. Maybe it was mentioned in the release notes, but I found that out at a rather bad time - I had come to depend on a backup copy of the RPM being in the yum cache folder. But back to your point...yum _should_ be able to: 1) "rollback" a package (and maybe it's dependancies) to a previos version...downloading the packages if necessart 2) roll back the entire RPM system to a particular point in time..sort of like System Restore , or whatever it is called in Windows...a restore point I think they call it. A sample scenario is that a kernel patch/fix/update causes your system to bork...and it is not a widespread issue, so you don't except a fix soon. At least you could roll back the kernel package - but that is a very bad example since the last 2 kernels are kept. -- Fedora Core 6 and proud From jspaleta at gmail.com Sat Jan 13 08:43:42 2007 From: jspaleta at gmail.com (Jeff Spaleta) Date: Fri, 12 Jan 2007 23:43:42 -0900 Subject: yum roll back option? In-Reply-To: <000101c736e8$4effad80$020aa8c0@a18> References: <000001c736e0$0ebd9c30$020aa8c0@a18> <604aa7910701122307y5edb939dr412da3ded8370007@mail.gmail.com> <000101c736e8$4effad80$020aa8c0@a18> Message-ID: <604aa7910701130043s3397b602ie74af32be8771604@mail.gmail.com> On 1/12/07, Jerry Williams wrote: > Does rpm need to be fixed to keep a previous version or something else? There are aspects of rpm operation which are very difficult to rollback. You are thinking in terms of rpm payload, but you aren't thinking about things like post-install scriptlet actions, which work on files in a way which are not tracked by the rpmdb. There is also the complication of rpm triggers which are even less obviously trackable. Triggers are somewhat rarer aspects of rpm packages, but since they only get...triggered...in certain situations they greatly complicate the scenario matrix, in ways that can be difficult to confirm. > What if rpm had a cache > that it would keep the previous version and the current version? And maybe > an option to purge the previous version. yum has a caching option, which you are free to enable. man yum.conf, look for keepcache Taken together with the available rpmpkg log, you can reinstall older versions of a package. I believe there is a yum plugin that you will find useful, if you don't want to resort to rpm -Uvh --oldpackage, to do the dirty work. yum info yum-allowdowngrade "This plugin adds a --allow-downgrade flag to yum to make it possible to manually downgrade packages to specific versions." But I have to stress that there is no garuntee that downgrading to a a previously installed package version for any particular package will give you back exactly what you had before. scriptlets nor trigger actions are necessarily rolled-back, along with the trackable payloads. -jef From pmatilai at laiskiainen.org Sat Jan 13 09:29:47 2007 From: pmatilai at laiskiainen.org (Panu Matilainen) Date: Sat, 13 Jan 2007 11:29:47 +0200 (EET) Subject: yum roll back option? In-Reply-To: <604aa7910701130043s3397b602ie74af32be8771604@mail.gmail.com> References: <000001c736e0$0ebd9c30$020aa8c0@a18> <604aa7910701122307y5edb939dr412da3ded8370007@mail.gmail.com> <000101c736e8$4effad80$020aa8c0@a18> <604aa7910701130043s3397b602ie74af32be8771604@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: On Fri, 12 Jan 2007, Jeff Spaleta wrote: > > yum has a caching option, which you are free to enable. > man yum.conf, look for keepcache > > Taken together with the available rpmpkg log, you can reinstall older > versions of a package. > I believe there is a yum plugin that you will find useful, if you > don't want to resort to rpm -Uvh --oldpackage, to do the dirty work. > yum info yum-allowdowngrade > "This plugin adds a --allow-downgrade flag to yum to make it possible to > manually downgrade packages to specific versions." Or you can enable rpm rollbacks. You can't use yum to do the actual rollback but you can use rpm cli for that, yum (or actually rpmlib) will create the rollback packages on erasures and upgrades. See for example http://www.linuxjournal.com/article/7034 and http://www.oreillynet.com/onlamp/blog/2006/01/rpm_rollback_in_fedora_core_45.html forsome further info on the topic. - Panu - From buildsys at redhat.com Sat Jan 13 10:37:54 2007 From: buildsys at redhat.com (buildsys at redhat.com) Date: Sat, 13 Jan 2007 05:37:54 -0500 Subject: rawhide report: 20070113 changes Message-ID: <200701131037.l0DAbs0X009196@hs20-bc2-6.build.redhat.com> New package ConsoleKit System daemon for tracking users, sessions and seats Updated Packages: cups-1:1.2.7-7.fc7 ------------------ * Fri Jan 12 2007 Tim Waugh 1:1.2.7-7 - Don't even reload CUPS when rotating logs (bug #215024). * Fri Dec 08 2006 Tim Waugh - Requires tmpwatch for the cron.daily script (bug #218901). device-mapper-1.02.14-2.fc7 --------------------------- * Fri Jan 12 2007 Alasdair Kergon - 1.02.14-2 - Rebuild. * Thu Jan 11 2007 Alasdair Kergon - 1.02.14-1 - Use CFLAGS when linking so mixed sparc builds can supply -m64. - Export dm_basename() and dm_tree_use_no_flush_suspend(). - Cope with a trailing space when comparing tables prior to possible reload. * Tue Nov 28 2006 Alasdair Kergon - 1.02.13-1 - Update dmsetup man page (setgeometry & message). - Suppress encryption key in 'dmsetup table' output unless --showkeys supplied. eclipse-1:3.2.1-30.fc7 ---------------------- * Fri Jan 12 2007 Ben Konrath 3.2.1-30 - Fix %postun problem in the sdk sub-package. * Thu Jan 11 2007 Ben Konrath 3.2.1-29 - Remove SWT JNI symlinks from %{libdir}. * Wed Jan 10 2007 Ben Konrath 3.2.1-28 - Rpmlint cleanups. fontconfig-2.4.2-2.fc7 ---------------------- * Fri Jan 12 2007 Behdad Esfahbod - 2.4.2-2 - Change /usr/share/X11/fonts/OTF to /usr/share/X11/fonts/TTF - Resolves: #220809 gawk-3.1.5-13.fc7 ----------------- * Fri Jan 12 2007 Karel Zak 3.1.5-13 - improve freewstr patch gdb-6.5-25.fc7 -------------- * Fri Jan 12 2007 Jan Kratochvil - 6.5-25 - Fix unwinding of non-CFI (w/o debuginfo) PPC code by recent GCC (BZ 140532). ghostscript-8.15.3-4.fc7 ------------------------ * Fri Jan 12 2007 Tim Waugh 8.15.3-4 - Own cjkv directory (bug #221380, bug #222375). * Tue Dec 05 2006 Tim Waugh 8.15.3-3 - Added split-cidfnmap patch (bug #194592). * Thu Nov 16 2006 Tim Waugh 8.15.3-2 - 8.15.3. No longer need gtk2, ps2epsi, badc, pagesize, use-external-freetype, split-font-configuration or cjkv patches. - Renumbered patches. gphoto2-2.3.1-2.fc7 ------------------- * Thu Jan 11 2007 Jindrich Novy 2.3.1-2 - really fix the gphoto2-devel multilib conflict (#205211) jpackage-utils-0:1.7.3-1jpp.2.fc7 --------------------------------- * Thu Jan 11 2007 Thomas Fitzsimmons - 0:1.7.3-1jpp.2.fc7 - Add 1.6.0 directories missed in merge. - Resolves: rhbz#221262 libdhcp-1.19-1.fc7 ------------------ * Fri Jan 12 2007 David Cantrell - 1.19-1 - Catch return value of asprintf() in ifxDHCPv6() and ifxDHCPv4() * Thu Jan 11 2007 David Cantrell - 1.18-1 - Set IFF_UP and IFF_RUNNING flags on interface before trying to get a DHCP lease. Fixes a problem with DHCP failing in anaconda using 2.6.19 and higher kernels (#221392). * Fri Oct 27 2006 David Cantrell - 1.17-1 - Replace enum dhcp_state_e in libdhcp.h with the actual typedef libselinux-1.33.4-2.fc7 ----------------------- * Fri Jan 12 2007 Dan Walsh - 1.33.4-2 - Add reference to selinux man page in all man pages to make apropos work Resolves: # 217881 * Thu Jan 11 2007 Dan Walsh - 1.33.4-1 - Upstream wanted some minor changes, upgrading to keep api the same - Upgrade to upstream * Merged selinux_check_securetty_context() and support from Dan Walsh. Resolves: #200110 man-pages-2.43-3.fc7 -------------------- * Fri Jan 12 2007 Ivana Varekova 2.43-3 - fix mmap2 man page - spec file cleanup * Fri Dec 08 2006 Ivana Varekova 2.43-2 - remove old/wrong patches - fix tgkill/tkill man pages inconsistency * Fri Dec 01 2006 Ivana Varekova 2.43-1 - update to 2.43 - fix mount.2 man page (#211608) numactl-0.9.8-2.fc7 ------------------- * Fri Jan 12 2007 Neil Horman - 0.9.8-2.fc7 - Properly fixed bz 221982 - Updated revision string to include .fc7 parted-1.8.2-1.fc7 ------------------ * Fri Jan 12 2007 David Cantrell - 1.8.2-1 - Upgrade to GNU parted-1.8.2 policycoreutils-1.33.12-2.fc7 ----------------------------- * Fri Jan 12 2007 Dan Walsh 1.33.12-2 - Update man pages by adding SELinux to header to fix apropos database Resolves: #217881 postgresql-8.2.1-2.fc7 ---------------------- * Fri Jan 12 2007 Tom Lane 8.2.1-2 - Split -pl subpackage into three new packages to reduce dependencies and track upstream project's packaging. pyparted-1.8.3-1.fc7 -------------------- * Fri Jan 12 2007 David Cantrell - 1.8.3-1 - Required parted-1.8.2 or higher setarch-2.0-3.fc7 ----------------- * Fri Jan 12 2007 Jindrich Novy 2.0-3 - add sparc32bash alias to keep compatibility with sparc32 which is obsoleted by setarch for some time (#221976), thanks to Dennis Gilmore stardict-2.4.8-1.fc7 -------------------- * Fri Jan 12 2007 Mayank Jain - Added perl-XML-Parser as BuildRequires * Thu Jan 11 2007 Mayank Jain * Thu Jan 11 2007 Mayank Jain - Updated to version 2.4.8 - Removed invalid patch - stardict-2.4.5-invalid-cplusplus.patch - Reset release number to 2.4.8-1 - Added dist-tag to the release version directive system-config-printer-0.7.47-1.fc7 ---------------------------------- * Fri Jan 12 2007 Tim Waugh 0.7.47-1 - 0.7.47: - Fixed minor text bugs (bug #177433). - Handle shell builtins in the driver check (bug #222413). system-config-securitylevel-1.7.0-1.fc7 --------------------------------------- * Fri Jan 12 2007 Chris Lumens 1.7.0-1 - Change .desktop file (#218925). - Make iptables default FORWARD rule REJECT (#221828). - Correct F12 behavior on main page (#221942). - Disable IPv6 firewall when asked to (#221942). - Support adding a user-specified custom firewall rules file that gets included after the defaults (#138143). vixie-cron-4:4.1-69.fc7 ----------------------- * Wed Jan 10 2007 Marcela Maslanova - 4:4.1-69 - patch from bz - Cron does not detect changed symlink - rhbz#221856 Broken deps for ia64 ---------------------------------------------------------- mkinitrd - 6.0.6-1.ia64 requires libparted-1.8.so.0()(64bit) nash - 6.0.6-1.ia64 requires libparted-1.8.so.0()(64bit) Broken deps for i386 ---------------------------------------------------------- mkinitrd - 6.0.6-1.i386 requires libparted-1.8.so.0 nash - 6.0.6-1.i386 requires libparted-1.8.so.0 Broken deps for x86_64 ---------------------------------------------------------- mkinitrd - 6.0.6-1.x86_64 requires libparted-1.8.so.0()(64bit) nash - 6.0.6-1.x86_64 requires libparted-1.8.so.0()(64bit) nash - 6.0.6-1.i386 requires libparted-1.8.so.0 Broken deps for ppc64 ---------------------------------------------------------- mkinitrd - 6.0.6-1.ppc64 requires libparted-1.8.so.0()(64bit) nash - 6.0.6-1.ppc64 requires libparted-1.8.so.0()(64bit) Broken deps for ppc ---------------------------------------------------------- mkinitrd - 6.0.6-1.ppc requires libparted-1.8.so.0 nash - 6.0.6-1.ppc requires libparted-1.8.so.0 Broken deps for s390 ---------------------------------------------------------- mkinitrd - 6.0.6-1.s390 requires libparted-1.8.so.0 nash - 6.0.6-1.s390 requires libparted-1.8.so.0 systemtap - 0.5.10-1.fc7.s390 requires kernel >= 0:2.6.9-11 systemtap-runtime - 0.5.10-1.fc7.s390 requires kernel >= 0:2.6.9-11 Broken deps for s390x ---------------------------------------------------------- mkinitrd - 6.0.6-1.s390x requires libparted-1.8.so.0()(64bit) nash - 6.0.6-1.s390x requires libparted-1.8.so.0()(64bit) nash - 6.0.6-1.s390 requires libparted-1.8.so.0 From kevin.verma at gmail.com Sat Jan 13 12:15:31 2007 From: kevin.verma at gmail.com (Anuj Verma (Kevin)) Date: Sat, 13 Jan 2007 17:45:31 +0530 Subject: Fedora for UMPC, tablets, PDA etc. ? In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: s/Nokai/Nokia On 1/13/07, Anuj Verma (Kevin) wrote: > Hello > > Reading the below(bottom) mentioned story I am curious to know more > point of views, "FC6 shrunk to 150MB" ! > > This time while Fedora 7, is being planned and discussed and while UMPC > is getting lot popular, I am just curious to know point of views here, > if this is a good time for Fedora to also host a UMPC project ? > > Does it seems Fedora be good for UMPC types example, Orgami, Nokai 770/800 etc. > > Hoping that the lessons and improvements gained out of OLPC can be put > out for a wider community cattering, development & cross pollination. > > Regards, > Kevin > > -- > > http://www.linuxtoday.com/infrastructure/2007010902326NWHWEV > > "The software is based on Fedora Cora 6, put on an diet to reduce it to > 150 MB, and leverages Python heavily. According to Bletsas, both > Microsoft (WinCE) and Apple (OS X) offered their operating systems, but > neither fit the footprint or security requirements that the XO demanded. > In addition, the closed-source nature of those operating systems wasn't > a good fit to the OLPC philosophy. > > The application environment looks nothing like a typical X-Window GUI > that you or I have ever seen. Written menus are totally replaced with > icons. In one example screen, the child can view all the other meshed > XOs around them (the mesh is good point to point to about 600 meters), > and see what activities the other children are involved in. Almost all > activities can be done collaboratively. So, for example, multiple > children can work on the same document or browse the web together. The > distributions are fully open source, and can be downloaded and played > with now at laptop.org. Also included will be a Gecko-based browser that > Bletsas told me should be capable of displaying Flash-enabled web > pages." > From kevin.verma at gmail.com Sat Jan 13 12:13:22 2007 From: kevin.verma at gmail.com (Anuj Verma (Kevin)) Date: Sat, 13 Jan 2007 17:43:22 +0530 Subject: Fedora for UMPC, tablets, PDA etc. ? Message-ID: Hello Reading the below(bottom) mentioned story I am curious to know more point of views, "FC6 shrunk to 150MB" ! This time while Fedora 7, is being planned and discussed and while UMPC is getting lot popular, I am just curious to know point of views here, if this is a good time for Fedora to also host a UMPC project ? Does it seems Fedora be good for UMPC types example, Orgami, Nokai 770/800 etc. Hoping that the lessons and improvements gained out of OLPC can be put out for a wider community cattering, development & cross pollination. Regards, Kevin -- http://www.linuxtoday.com/infrastructure/2007010902326NWHWEV "The software is based on Fedora Cora 6, put on an diet to reduce it to 150 MB, and leverages Python heavily. According to Bletsas, both Microsoft (WinCE) and Apple (OS X) offered their operating systems, but neither fit the footprint or security requirements that the XO demanded. In addition, the closed-source nature of those operating systems wasn't a good fit to the OLPC philosophy. The application environment looks nothing like a typical X-Window GUI that you or I have ever seen. Written menus are totally replaced with icons. In one example screen, the child can view all the other meshed XOs around them (the mesh is good point to point to about 600 meters), and see what activities the other children are involved in. Almost all activities can be done collaboratively. So, for example, multiple children can work on the same document or browse the web together. The distributions are fully open source, and can be downloaded and played with now at laptop.org. Also included will be a Gecko-based browser that Bletsas told me should be capable of displaying Flash-enabled web pages." From pekkas at netcore.fi Sat Jan 13 15:53:54 2007 From: pekkas at netcore.fi (Pekka Savola) Date: Sat, 13 Jan 2007 17:53:54 +0200 (EET) Subject: 2.6.19.2 IPv6 ND broken because ff02::1 not joined Message-ID: Hi, FC6 updates-testing kernel based on 2.6.19.2 (kernel-2.6.19-1.2895.fc6) seems to have a broken IPv6 stateless address autoconf. The previous, successfully tested version was based on 2.6.18.5 (kernel-2.6.18-1.2860.fc6). The problem appears to be that the host is not joining the all-nodes multicast address (ff02::1) [netstat -g -n], so the IP layer isn't processing the received router advertisements even though you can see them with tcpdump. The solicited node mcast address is joined though. Loopback interface doesn't join ff02::1 either. linux-2.6-xen.patch at least seems to be making some modifications to IPv6 ND code, but I didn't look closely enough if that's the culprit. If it matters, the network adapter is Realtek 8139. -- Pekka Savola "You each name yourselves king, yet the Netcore Oy kingdom bleeds." Systems. Networks. Security. -- George R.R. Martin: A Clash of Kings From kloczek at zie.pg.gda.pl Sat Jan 13 16:23:08 2007 From: kloczek at zie.pg.gda.pl (Tomasz =?UTF-8?Q?K=C5=82oczko?=) Date: Sat, 13 Jan 2007 17:23:08 +0100 Subject: Broken gnome-session 2.17.5 ? (Re: rawhide report: 20070112 changes) In-Reply-To: <200701121143.l0CBhaII001534@hs20-bc2-6.build.redhat.com> References: <200701121143.l0CBhaII001534@hs20-bc2-6.build.redhat.com> Message-ID: <1168705388.22629.7.camel@boss.zie.pg.gda.pl> Dnia 12-01-2007, pi? o godzinie 06:43 -0500, buildsys at redhat.com napisa?(a): > gnome-session-2.17.5-1.fc7 > -------------------------- > * Wed Jan 10 2007 Matthias Clasen - 2.17.5-1 > - Update to 2.17.5 Seems after today upgrade to this version gnome-session during login to new X session gnome-session fails very badly. Conntent of ~/.xsession-errors in attachment. BTW: In second line attached file is incliuded line: Xlib: extension "XEVIE" missing on display ":0.0". What the hell is XEVIE X extension and for what it is neccessary in this case ? :) BTW2: During prepare this email I discover some other bug: choose attach file from evolution toolbar displays dialog box which do not allow display/list doted files (like .xsession-errors). Also nautilus do not allow display doted files and I can't find any thing for enable this in evo/nautilus prefferences or gconf settings. kloczek -------------- next part -------------- localuser:kloczek being added to access control list Xlib: extension "XEVIE" missing on display ":0.0". Bonobo accessibility support initialized GTK Accessibility Module initialized SESSION_MANAGER=local/kloczek01:/tmp/.ICE-unix/28693 GTK Accessibility Module initialized GTK Accessibility Module initialized Bonobo accessibility support initialized GTK Accessibility Module initialized Bonobo accessibility support initialized GTK Accessibility Module initialized Bonobo accessibility support initialized GTK Accessibility Module initialized GTK Accessibility Module initialized GTK Accessibility Module initialized GTK Accessibility Module initialized GTK Accessibility Module initialized GTK Accessibility Module initialized ** Message: failed to load session from /home/kloczek/.nautilus/saved-session-47UYLT GTK Accessibility Module initialized GTK Accessibility Module initialized libnm_glib_nm_state_cb: dbus returned an error. (org.freedesktop.DBus.Error.ServiceUnknown) The name org.freedesktop.NetworkManager was not provided by any .service files GTK Accessibility Module initialized *** glibc detected *** gnome-session: free(): invalid pointer: 0x09f2e6b8 *** ======= Backtrace: ========= /lib/libc.so.6[0xb9effd] /lib/libc.so.6(cfree+0x90)[0xba2650] /usr/lib/libICE.so.6(_IceFreeConnection+0xde)[0x46ee09e] /usr/lib/libICE.so.6(IceCloseConnection+0xb9)[0x46ee1b9] /usr/lib/libgnomeui-2.so.0[0x92bf38] /lib/libglib-2.0.so.0[0x4788c7d] /lib/libglib-2.0.so.0(g_main_context_dispatch+0x182)[0x475f4f2] /lib/libglib-2.0.so.0[0x47624cf] /lib/libglib-2.0.so.0(g_main_context_iteration+0x65)[0x4762a35] gnome-session[0x80522c8] /lib/libglib-2.0.so.0[0x4788c7d] /lib/libglib-2.0.so.0(g_main_context_dispatch+0x182)[0x475f4f2] /lib/libglib-2.0.so.0[0x47624cf] /lib/libglib-2.0.so.0(g_main_loop_run+0x1a9)[0x4762879] /usr/lib/libgtk-x11-2.0.so.0(gtk_main+0xb4)[0x4bcf2a4] gnome-session[0x8052ea3] /lib/libc.so.6(__libc_start_main+0xdc)[0xb4ee5c] gnome-session[0x804e9e1] ======= Memory map: ======== 00110000-0014f000 r-xp 00000000 fd:01 1605697 /usr/lib/libpango-1.0.so.0.1503.0 0014f000-00151000 rwxp 0003e000 fd:01 1605697 /usr/lib/libpango-1.0.so.0.1503.0 00151000-00155000 r-xp 00000000 fd:01 671846 /lib/libgthread-2.0.so.0.1200.7 00155000-00156000 rwxp 00003000 fd:01 671846 /lib/libgthread-2.0.so.0.1200.7 00156000-00165000 r-xp 00000000 fd:01 1393095 /usr/lib/libXext.so.6.4.0 00165000-00166000 rwxp 0000e000 fd:01 1393095 /usr/lib/libXext.so.6.4.0 00168000-00183000 r-xp 00000000 fd:01 671757 /lib/ld-2.5.90.so 00183000-00184000 r-xp 0001a000 fd:01 671757 /lib/ld-2.5.90.so 00184000-00185000 rwxp 0001b000 fd:01 671757 /lib/ld-2.5.90.so 00187000-0019d000 r-xp 00000000 fd:01 1393264 /usr/lib/libart_lgpl_2.s(evolution:19996): e-data-server-DEBUG: Loading categories from "/home/users/prac/nd/kloczek/.evolution/categories.xml" (evolution:19996): e-data-server-DEBUG: Loaded 29 categories (evolution:19996): GLib-GObject-WARNING **: IA__g_object_weak_unref: couldn't find weak ref 0x2aaab58a9ff0(0x1306450) (evolution:19996): GLib-GObject-WARNING **: IA__g_object_weak_unref: couldn't find weak ref 0x2aaab58a9ff0(0x1306450) (evolution:19996): GLib-GObject-WARNING **: IA__g_object_weak_unref: couldn't find weak ref 0x2aaab58a9ff0(0x1306450) (evolution:19996): GLib-GObject-WARNING **: IA__g_object_weak_unref: couldn't find weak ref 0x2aaab58a9ff0(0x1306450) (evolution:19996): GLib-GObject-WARNING **: IA__g_object_weak_unref: couldn't find weak ref 0x2aaab58a9ff0(0x1306450) BBDB spinning up... (evolution:19996): GLib-GObject-WARNING **: IA__g_object_weak_unref: couldn't find weak ref 0x2aaab58a9ff0(0x14894a0) (evolution:19996): GLib-GObject-WARNING **: IA__g_object_weak_unref: couldn't find weak ref 0x2aaab58a9ff0(0x14894a0) (evolution:19996): GLib-GObject-WARNING **: IA__g_object_weak_unref: couldn't find weak ref 0x2aaab58a9ff0(0x14894a0) (evolution:19996): GLib-GObject-WARNING **: IA__g_object_weak_unref: couldn't find weak ref 0x2aaab58a9ff0(0x14894a0) (evolution:19996): GLib-GObject-WARNING **: IA__g_object_weak_unref: couldn't find weak ref 0x2aaab58a9ff0(0x14894a0) (evolution:19996): GLib-GObject-WARNING **: IA__g_object_weak_unref: couldn't find weak ref 0x2aaab58a9ff0(0x14894a0) (evolution:19996): GLib-GObject-WARNING **: IA__g_object_weak_unref: couldn't find weak ref 0x2aaab58a9ff0(0x14894a0) (evolution:19996): GLib-GObject-WARNING **: IA__g_object_weak_unref: couldn't find weak ref 0x2aaab58a9ff0(0x14894a0) (evolution:19996): GLib-GObject-WARNING **: IA__g_object_weak_unref: couldn't find weak ref 0x2aaab58a9ff0(0x14894a0) (evolution:19996): GLib-GObject-WARNING **: IA__g_object_weak_unref: couldn't find weak ref 0x2aaab58a9ff0(0x14894a0) (evolution:19996): GLib-GObject-WARNING **: IA__g_object_weak_unref: couldn't find weak ref 0x2aaab58a9ff0(0x14894a0) (evolution:19996): GLib-GObject-WARNING **: IA__g_object_weak_unref: couldn't find weak ref 0x2aaab58a9ff0(0x14894a0) (evolution:19996): GLib-GObject-WARNING **: IA__g_object_weak_unref: couldn't find weak ref 0x2aaab58a9ff0(0x14894a0) (evolution:19996): GLib-GObject-WARNING **: IA__g_object_weak_unref: couldn't find weak ref 0x2aaab58a9ff0(0x14894a0) (evolution:19996): GLib-GObject-WARNING **: IA__g_object_weak_unref: couldn't find weak ref 0x2aaab58a9ff0(0x14894a0) (evolution:19996): GLib-GObject-WARNING **: IA__g_object_weak_unref: couldn't find weak ref 0x2aaab58a9ff0(0x14894a0) (evolution:19996): GLib-GObject-WARNING **: IA__g_object_weak_unref: couldn't find weak ref 0x2aaab58a9ff0(0x14894a0) (evolution:19996): GLib-GObject-WARNING **: IA__g_object_weak_unref: couldn't find weak ref 0x2aaab58a9ff0(0x14894a0) (evolution:19996): GLib-GObject-WARNING **: IA__g_object_weak_unref: couldn't find weak ref 0x2aaab58a9ff0(0x14894a0) (evolution:19996): GLib-GObject-WARNING **: IA__g_object_weak_unref: couldn't find weak ref 0x2aaab58a9ff0(0x14894a0) (evolution:19996): GLib-GObject-WARNING **: IA__g_object_weak_unref: couldn't find weak ref 0x2aaab58a9ff0(0x14894a0) (evolution:19996): GLib-GObject-WARNING **: IA__g_object_weak_unref: couldn't find weak ref 0x2aaab58a9ff0(0x14894a0) (evolution:19996): GLib-GObject-WARNING **: IA__g_object_weak_unref: couldn't find weak ref 0x2aaab58a9ff0(0x14894a0) (evolution:19996): GLib-GObject-WARNING **: IA__g_object_weak_unref: couldn't find weak ref 0x2aaab58a9ff0(0x14894a0) (evolution:19996): GLib-GObject-WARNING **: IA__g_object_weak_unref: couldn't find weak ref 0x2aaab58a9ff0(0x14894a0) (evolution:19996): GLib-GObject-WARNING **: IA__g_object_weak_unref: couldn't find weak ref 0x2aaab58a9ff0(0x14894a0) (evolution:19996): GLib-GObject-WARNING **: IA__g_object_weak_unref: couldn't find weak ref 0x2aaab58a9ff0(0x14894a0) (evolution:19996): GLib-GObject-WARNING **: IA__g_object_weak_unref: couldn't find weak ref 0x2aaab58a9ff0(0x14894a0) (evolution:19996): GLib-GObject-WARNING **: IA__g_object_weak_unref: couldn't find weak ref 0x2aaab58a9ff0(0x14894a0) (evolution:19996): GLib-GObject-WARNING **: IA__g_object_weak_unref: couldn't find weak ref 0x2aaab58a9ff0(0x14894a0) (evolution:19996): GLib-GObject-WARNING **: IA__g_object_weak_unref: couldn't find weak ref 0x2aaab58a9ff0(0x14894a0) (evolution:19996): GLib-GObject-WARNING **: IA__g_object_weak_unref: couldn't find weak ref 0x2aaab58a9ff0(0x14894a0) 1 1392970 /usr/lib/libgnomecanvas-2.so.0.1400.0 00472000-00489000 r-xp 00000000 fd:01 1393515 /usr/lib/libglade-2.0.so.0.0.7 00489000-0048a000 rwxp 00017000 fd:01 1393515 /usr/lib/libglade-2.0.so.0.0.7 0048a000-00497000 r-xp 00000000 fd:01 1654938 /usr/lib/gtk-2.0/2.10.0/engines/libcrux-engine.so 00497000-00498000 rwxp 0000c000 fd:01 1654938 /usr/lib/gtk-2.0/2.10.0/engines/libcrux-engine.so 0049e000-004fd000 r-xp 00000000 fd:01 1395871 /usr/lib/libgnomevfs-2.so.0.1700.2 004fd000-00500000 rwxp 0005f000 fd:01 1395871 /usr/lib/libgnomevfs-2.so.0.1700.2 00500000-00555000 r-xp 00000000 fd:01 1425515 /usr/lib/gtk-2.0/modules/libgail.so 00555000-00559000 rwxp 00055000 fd:01 1425515 /usr/lib/gtk-2.0/modules/libgail.so 0056d000-00573000 r-xp 00000000 fd:01 1395178 /usr/lib/libgailutil.so.18.0.1 00573000-00574000 rwxp 00006000 fd:01 1395178 /usr/lib/libgailutil.so.18.0.1 00574000-0058a000 r-xp 00000000 fd:01 1655093 /usr/lib/gtk-2.0/2.10.0/engines/libclearlooks.so 0058a000-0058b000 rwxp 00016000 fd:01 1655093 /usr/lib/gtk-2.0/2.10.0/engines/libclearlooks.so 0066e000-0066f000 r-xp 0066e000 00:00 0 [vdso] 006a9000-006ab000 r-xp 00000000 fd:01 1541862 /usr/lib/gconv/ISO8859-2.so 006ab000-006ad000 rwxp 00001000 fd:01 1541862 /usr/lib/gconv/ISO8859-2.so 00743000-007a6000 r-xp 00000000 fd:01 1393188 /usr/lib/libbonoboui-2.so.0.0.0 007a6000-007a9000 rwxp 00063000 fd:01 1393188 /usr/lib/libbonoboui-2.so.0.0.0 0081f000-00865000 r-xp 00000000 fd:01 1393030 /usr/lib/libspi.so.0.10.11 00865000-0086f000 rwxp 00045000 fd:01 1393030 /usr/lib/libspi.so.0.10.11 00878000-0089f000 r-xp 00000000 fd:01 1605671 /usr/lib/libfontconfig.so.1.2.0 0089f000-008a7000 rwxp 00027000 fd:01 1605671 /usr/lib/libfontconfig.so.1.2.0 008ec000-0097e000 r-xp 00000000 fd:01 1393223 /usr/lib/libgnomeui-2.so.0.1700.1 0097e000-00982000 rwxp 00091000 fd:01 1393223 /usr/lib/libgnomeui-2.so.0.1700.1 00aec000-00b00000 r-xp 00000000 fd:01 671855 /lib/libnsl-2.5.90.so 00b00000-00b01000 r-xp 00013000 fd:01 671855 /lib/libnsl-2.5.90.so 00b01000-00b02000 rwxp 00014000 fd:01 671855 /lib/libnsl-2.5.90.so 00b02000-00b04000 rwxp 00b02000 00:00 0 00b39000-00c82000 r-xp 00000000 fd:01 671779 /lib/libc-2.5.90.so 00c82000-00c84000 r-xp 00149000 fd:01 671779 /lib/libc-2.5.90.so 00c84000-00c85000 rwxp 0014b000 fd:01 671779 /lib/libc-2.5.90.so 00c85000-00c88000 rwxp 00c85000 00:00 0 00c8a000-00cb1000 r-xp 00000000 fd:01 671812 /lib/libm-2.5.90.so 00cb1000-00cb2000 r-xp 00026000 fd:01 671812 /lib/libm-2.5.90.so 00cb2000-00cb3000 rwxp 00027000 fd:01 671812 /lib/libm-2.5.90.so 00cb5000-00cb8000 r-xp 00000000 fd:01 671784 /lib/libdl-2.5.90.so 00cb8000-00cb9000 r-xp 00002000 fd:01 671784 /lib/libdl-2.5.90.so 00cb9000-00cba000 rwxp 00003000 fd:01 671784 /lib/libdl-2.5.90.so 00cbc000-00cd0000 r-xp 00000000 fd:01 671786 /lib/libpthread-2.5.90.so 00cd0000-00cd1000 r-xp 00013000 fd:01 671786 /lib/libpthread-2.5.90.so 00cd1000-00cd2000 rwxp 00014000 fd:01 671786 /lib/libpthread-2.5.90.so 00cd2000-00cd4000 rwxp 00cd2000 00:00 0 00cd6000-00ce8000 r-xp 00000000 fd:01 1392705 /usr/lib/libz.so.1.2.3 00ce8000-00ce9000 rwxp 00011000 fd:01 1392705 /usr/lib/libz.so.1.2.3 00ceb000-00cf0000 r-xp 00000000 fd:01 1392770 /usr/lib/libXdmcp.so.6.0.0 00cf0000-00cf1000 rwxp 00004000 fd:01 1392770 /usr/lib/libXdmcp.so.6.0.0 00cf3000-00df1000 r-xp 00000000 fd:01 1392776 /usr/lib/libX11.so.6.2.0 00df1000-00df5000 rwxp 000fd000 fd:01 1392776 /usr/lib/libX11.so.6.2.0 00df7000-00df9000 r-xp 00000000 fd:01 1392751 /usr/lib/libXau.so.6.0.0 00df9000-00dfa000 rwxp 00001000 fd:01 1392751 /usr/lib/libXau.so.6.0.0 00ed8000-00ee0000 r-xp 00000000 fd:01 1605716 /usr/lib/libpangocairo-1.0.so.0.1503.0 00ee0000-00ee1000 rwxp 00007000 fd:01 1605716 /usr/lib/libpangocairo-1.0.so.0.1503.0 04604000-0460f000 r-xp 00000000 fd:01 671749 /lib/libgcc_s-4.1.1-20070105.so.1 0460f000-04610000 rwxp 0000a000 fd:01 671749 /lib/libgcc_s-4.1.1-20070105.so.1 04612000-04628000 r-xp 00000000 fd:01 1393391 /usr/lib/libgdk_pixbuf-2.0.so.0.1000.7 04628000-04629000 rwxp 00016000 fd:01 1393391 /usr/lib/libgdk_pixbuf-2.0.so.0.1000.7 0467f000-046a4000 r-xp 00000000 fd:01 1392736 /usr/lib/libpng12.so.0.10.0 046a4000-046a5000 rwxp 00024000 fd:01 1392736 /usr/lib/libpng12.so.0.10.0 046a7000-046af000 r-xp 00000000 fd:01 1392791 /usr/lib/libXrender.so.1.3.0 046af000-046b0000 rwxp 00007000 fd:01 1392791 /usr/lib/libXrender.so.1.3.0 046b2000-046b5000 r-xp 00000000 fd:01 1393171 /usr/lib/libXrandr.so.2.0.0 046b5000-046b6000 rwxp 00002000 fd:01 1393171 /usr/lib/libXrandr.so.2.0.0 046b8000-046bc000 r-xp 00000000 fd:01 1393178 /usr/lib/libXfixes.so.3.1.0 046bc000-046bd000 rwxp 00003000 fd:01 1393178 /usr/lib/libXfixes.so.3.1.0 046bf000-046c1000 r-xp 00000000 fd:01 1393101 /usr/lib/libXinerama.so.1.0.0 046c1000-046c2000 rwxp 00001000 fd:01 1393101 /usr/lib/libXinerama.so.1.0.0 046c4000-046cd000 r-xp 00000000 fd:01 1393203 /usr/lib/libXcursor.so.1.0.2 046cd000-046ce000 rwxp 00008000 fd:01 1393203 /usr/lib/libXcursor.so.1.0.2 046d0000-046d8000 r-xp 00000000 fd:01 1393373 /usr/lib/libSM.so.6.0.0 046d8000-046d9000 rwxp 00007000 fd:01 1393373 /usr/lib/libSM.so.6.0.0 046db000-046f2000 r-xp 00000000 fd:01 1393369 /usr/lib/libICE.so.6.3.0 046f2000-046f3000 rwxp 00016000 fd:01 1393369 /usr/lib/libICE.so.6.3.0 046f3000-046f5000 rwxp 046f3000 00:00 0 046f7000-046fe000 r-xp 00000000 fd:01 671787 /lib/librt-2.5.90.so 046fe000-046ff000 r-xp 00006000 fd:01 671787 /lib/librt-2.5.90.so 046ff000-04700000 rwxp 00007000 fd:01 671787 /lib/librt-2.5.90.so 04702000-04723000 r-xp 00000000 fd:01 1393501 /usr/lib/libjpeg.so.62.0.0 04723000-04724000 rwxp 00020000 fd:01 1393501 /usr/lib/libjpeg.so.62.0.0 04726000-0472d000 r-xp 00000000 fd:01 1394570 /usr/lib/libkrb5support.so.0.1 0472d000-0472e000 rwxp 00006000 fd:01 1394570 /usr/lib/libkrb5support.so.0.1 04734000-047d1000 r-xp 00000000 fd:01 671792 /lib/libglib-2.0.so.0.1200.7 047d1000-047d2000 rwxp 0009d000 fd:01 671792 /lib/libglib-2.0.so.0.1200.7 047d4000-04851000 r-xp 00000000 fd:01 1394211 /usr/lib/libfreetype.so.6.3.10 04851000-04854000 rwxp 0007d000 fd:01 1394211 /usr/lib/libfreetype.so.6.3.10 04887000-048ac000 r-xp 00000000 fd:01 1395861 /usr/lib/libk5crypto.so.3.0 048ac000-048ad000 rwxp 00025000 fd:01 1395861 /usr/lib/libk5crypto.so.3.0 048c0000-048fe000 r-xp 00000000 fd:01 671808 /lib/libgobject-2.0.so.0.1200.7 048fe000-048ff000 rwxp 0003e000 fd:01 671808 /lib/libgobject-2.0.so.0.1200.7 04901000-04903000 r-xp 00000000 fd:01 671799 /lib/libgmodule-2.0.so.0.1200.7 04903000-04904000 rwxp 00002000 fd:01 671799 /lib/libgmodule-2.0.so.0.1200.7 04906000-0497b000 r-xp 00000000 fd:01 1395522 /usr/lib/libcairo.so.2.10.3 0497b000-0497d000 rwxp 00074000 fd:01 1395522 /usr/lib/libcairo.so.2.10.3 04998000-049b2000 r-xp 00000000 fd:01 1392793 /usr/lib/libatk-1.0.so.0.1310.1 049b2000-049b4000 rwxp 0001a000 fd:01 1392793 /usr/lib/libatk-1.0.so.0.1310.1 04aa2000-04e38000 r-xp 00000000 fd:01 1392820 /usr/lib/libgtk-x11-2.0.so.0.1000.7 04e38000-04e3e000 rwxp 00395000 fd:01 1392820 /usr/lib/libgtk-x11-2.0.so.0.1000.7 04e3e000-04e3f000 rwxp 04e3e000 00:00 0 04e61000-04e68000 r-xp 00000000 fd:01 1393105 /usr/lib/libXi.so.6.0.0 04e68000-04e69000 rwxp 00006000 fd:01 1393105 /usr/lib/libXi.so.6.0.0 04e6b000-04f87000 r-xp 00000000 fd:01 671866 /lib/libcrypto.so.0.9.8b 04f87000-04f99000 rwxp 0011c000 fd:01 671866 /lib/libcrypto.so.0.9.8b 04f99000-04f9d000 rwxp 04f99000 00:00 0 04f9f000-04fa1000 r-xp 00000000 fd:01 671859 /lib/libcom_err.so.2.1 04fa1000-04fa2000 rwxp 00001000 fd:01 671859 /lib/libcom_err.so.2.1 04fa4000-0502e000 r-xp 00000000 fd:01 1395858 /usr/lib/libgdk-x11-2.0.so.0.1000.7 0502e000-05031000 rwxp 00089000 fd:01 1395858 /usr/lib/libgdk-x11-2.0.so.0.1000.7 05033000-050b8000 r-xp 00000000 fd:01 1395862 /usr/lib/libkrb5.so.3.2 050b8000-050ba000 rwxp 00084000 fd:01 1395862 /usr/lib/libkrb5.so.3.2 050d3000-050d5000 r-xp 00000000 fd:01 671878 /lib/libutil-2.5.90.so 050d5000-050d6000 r-xp 00001000 fd:01 671878 /lib/libutil-2.5.90.so 050d6000-050d7000 rwxp 00002000 fd:01 671878 /lib/libutil-2.5.90.so 050d9000-05113000 r-xp 00000000 fd:01 671853 /lib/libdbus-1.so.3.2.0 05113000-05114000 rwxp 00039000 fd:01 671853 /lib/libdbus-1.so.3.2.0 05116000-05119000 r-xp 00000000 fd:01 671852 /lib/libcap.so.1.10 05119000-0511a000 rwxp 00002000 fd:01 671852 /lib/libcap.so.1.10 0511c000-05249000 r-xp 00000000 fd:01 1393455 /usr/lib/libxml2.so.2.6.27 05249000-0524e000 rwxp 0012c000 fd:01 1393455 /usr/lib/libxml2.so.2.6.27 0524e000-0524f000 rwxp 0524e000 00:00 0 05287000-052b1000 r-xp 00000000 fd:01 1395864 /usr/lib/libgssapi_krb5.so.2.2 052b1000-052b2000 rwxp 00029000 fd:01 1395864 /usr/lib/libgssapi_krb5.so.2.2 052b4000-052f5000 r-xp 00000000 fd:01 671782 /lib/libssl.so.0.9.8b 052f5000-052f9000 rwxp 00040000 fd:01 671782 /lib/libssl.so.0.9.8b 05635000-0570e000 r-xp 00000000 fd:01 671887 /lib/libasound.so.2.0.0 0570e000-05713000 rwxp 000d8000 fd:01 671887 /lib/libasound.so.2.0.0 05715000-05720000 r-xp 00000000 fd:01 1394364 /usr/lib/libavahi-common.so.3.4.3 05720000-05721000 rwxp 0000a000 fd:01 1394364 /usr/lib/libavahi-common.so.3.4.3 05723000-05728000 r-xp 00000000 fd:01 1395074 /usr/lib/libXtst.so.6.1.0 05728000-05729000 rwxp 00004000 fd:01 1395074 /usr/lib/libXtst.so.6.1.0 05753000-05762000 r-xp 00000000 fd:01 1394437 /usr/lib/libavahi-client.so.3.2.1 05762000-05763000 rwxp 0000e000 fd:01 1394437 /usr/lib/libavahi-client.so.3.2.1 05765000-0578d000 r-xp 00000000 fd:01 1394465 /usr/lib/libaudiofile.so.0.0.2 0578d000-05790000 rwxp 00027000 fd:01 1394465 /usr/lib/libaudiofile.so.0.0.2 05792000-0579b000 r-xp 00000000 fd:01 1394478 /usr/lib/libesd.so.0.2.36 0579b000-0579c000 rwxp 00009000 fd:01 1394478 /usr/lib/libesd.so.0.2.36 08048000-08066000 r-xp 00000000 fd:01 1343549 /usr/bin/gnome-session 08066000-08067000 rw-p 0001d000 fd:01 1343549 /usr/bin/gnome-session 09d4d000-09f69000 rw-p 09d4d000 00:00 0 b5d00000-b5d21000 rw-p b5d00000 00:00 0 b5d21000-b5e00000 ---p b5d21000 00:00 0 b5e87000-b5ef0000 r--p 00000000 fd:01 786580 /usr/share/fonts/dejavu-lgc/DejaVuLGCSans.ttf b5ef0000-b5ef3000 r--s 00000000 fd:01 737402 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b7f04000-b7f0b000 r--s 00000000 fd:01 1541924 /usr/lib/gconv/gconv-modules.cache b7f0b000-b7f1b000 r--p 00000000 fd:01 18006 /usr/share/locale/pl/LC_MESSAGES/gtk20.mo bffaa000-bffc0000 rw-p bffaa000 00:00 0 [stack] GTK Accessibility Module initialized GTK Accessibility Module initialized ** Message: Could not connect to power manager: Could not get owner of name 'org.gnome.PowerManager': no such name GTK Accessibility Module initialized GTK Accessibility Module initialized DBUS disabled by user request... From stickster at gmail.com Sat Jan 13 16:33:45 2007 From: stickster at gmail.com (Paul W. Frields) Date: Sat, 13 Jan 2007 11:33:45 -0500 Subject: Fedora Server Spin In-Reply-To: <20070112204026.2B4356F06E@alopias.GreenKey.net> References: <1168558399.21083.42.camel@localhost.localdomain> <1168626262.21083.93.camel@localhost.localdomain> <3237e4410701121027wec17be7r97e1bd65b5ca93da@mail.gmail.com> <200701121359.27910.jkeating@redhat.com> <1168630926.11006.33.camel@cutter> <20070112204026.2B4356F06E@alopias.GreenKey.net> Message-ID: <1168706025.4437.7.camel@localhost.localdomain> On Fri, 2007-01-12 at 12:40 -0800, Curtis Doty wrote: > 2:42pm seth vidal said: > > > On Fri, 2007-01-12 at 13:59 -0500, Jesse Keating wrote: > > > > > That sounds like a "Server" spin to me. > > > > > > One thing we want to be very clear is that this is NOT designed for mission > > > critical or even production systems, especially with just a 13month life > > > span, and rapid adoption of new releases rather than backports. While it has > > > the name "server" it means that this is useful if you're setting up a server, > > > not that we're going to offer any kind of support, do anything different for > > > the updates, etc... > > > > +1 > > > > -sv > > > > Sure, but a rapid devel cycle is no excuse for a crappy OS. :-/ Looking back at the Fedora releases, I don't think one can say we've had to make many excuses. > Consider that if the Fedora 7 Server has the admittedly idealistic goal of > being mission critical--for just 13 months--it would be much better > quality for *any* use. We strive for a solid, stable release each and every time and the results have generally been very positive. I use Fedora for many applications at $DAYJOB for both individual and shared resources, but I wouldn't call them "mission critical." Mission critical applications without SLAs attached are wanking, pure and simple. There's no reason dedicated (read: "foolhardy") individuals couldn't set up a commercial interest in providing SLAs for Fedora, but expecting them from a volunteer community is unreasonable. Fedora is about rapid advancement balanced with stability ("Cutting edge without the blood"). Let's not hijack this thread with yet another lifecycle debate. :-) (Feel free to start a new thread, though.) -- Paul W. Frields, RHCE http://paul.frields.org/ gpg fingerprint: 3DA6 A0AC 6D58 FEC4 0233 5906 ACDB C937 BD11 3717 Fedora Project Board: http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Board Fedora Docs Project: http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/DocsProject -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: signature.asc Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 189 bytes Desc: This is a digitally signed message part URL: From stickster at gmail.com Sat Jan 13 16:46:46 2007 From: stickster at gmail.com (Paul W. Frields) Date: Sat, 13 Jan 2007 11:46:46 -0500 Subject: yum roll back option? In-Reply-To: <16de708d0701130044o7f31df7cm15767f1e9fd6d983@mail.gmail.com> References: <000001c736e0$0ebd9c30$020aa8c0@a18> <604aa7910701122307y5edb939dr412da3ded8370007@mail.gmail.com> <000101c736e8$4effad80$020aa8c0@a18> <16de708d0701130044o7f31df7cm15767f1e9fd6d983@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <1168706806.4437.12.camel@localhost.localdomain> On Sat, 2007-01-13 at 02:44 -0600, Arthur Pemberton wrote: > On 1/13/07, Jerry Williams wrote: > > > -----Original Message----- > [...] > > Thanks Jeff, > > I really didn't post here to try and fix my problem, more to look at the > > whole picture. If you break your server and lots of people depend on it > > then that is a bad thing. And it is hard to have an identical machine > > sitting there to test on. I would like to see Fedora 7 more robust so that > > it would be easy to recover from a problem like this. Does rpm need to be > > fixed to keep a previous version or something else? What if rpm had a cache > > that it would keep the previous version and the current version? And maybe > > an option to purge the previous version. > > > > That is looking like I should be keeping a copy of all the rpms on my system > > so I don't have to try and get them on the system after a problem. > > While I sympathize with your situation. I think your suggestion brings > RPM way beyond what it should be doing, into the realm of Yum.You can > have yum cache all files that are downloaded. And unless you do an > http `rpm -i`, you should have a copy of an RPM, it would then be up > to you to store it safely. Alone those lines, I was quite dissapointed > to find out that Fedora had changed the yum default of caching > downloaded RPMs to not caching them. Maybe it was mentioned in the > release notes, but I found that out at a rather bad time - I had come > to depend on a backup copy of the RPM being in the yum cache folder. > > But back to your point...yum _should_ be able to: > 1) "rollback" a package (and maybe it's dependancies) to a previos > version...downloading the packages if necessart I think "tsflags=repackage" still works in /etc/yum.conf, right? Keeping in mind, of course, that a repackaging is not *completely* equivalent to the original RPM. > 2) roll back the entire RPM system to a particular point in time..sort > of like System Restore , or whatever it is called in Windows...a > restore point I think they call it. You could try version-controlling the repackaging area (/var/spool/repackage ?). Of course I understand you're looking for a Shiny Red Button, but the back end is mostly there. > A sample scenario is that a kernel patch/fix/update causes your system > to bork...and it is not a widespread issue, so you don't except a fix > soon. At least you could roll back the kernel package - but that is a > very bad example since the last 2 kernels are kept. -- Paul W. Frields, RHCE http://paul.frields.org/ gpg fingerprint: 3DA6 A0AC 6D58 FEC4 0233 5906 ACDB C937 BD11 3717 Fedora Project Board: http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Board Fedora Docs Project: http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/DocsProject -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: signature.asc Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 189 bytes Desc: This is a digitally signed message part URL: From galibert at pobox.com Sat Jan 13 16:49:56 2007 From: galibert at pobox.com (Olivier Galibert) Date: Sat, 13 Jan 2007 17:49:56 +0100 Subject: Fedora Server Spin In-Reply-To: <200701121359.27910.jkeating@redhat.com> References: <1168558399.21083.42.camel@localhost.localdomain> <1168626262.21083.93.camel@localhost.localdomain> <3237e4410701121027wec17be7r97e1bd65b5ca93da@mail.gmail.com> <200701121359.27910.jkeating@redhat.com> Message-ID: <20070113164956.GA65097@dspnet.fr.eu.org> On Fri, Jan 12, 2007 at 01:59:27PM -0500, Jesse Keating wrote: > We can probably get to that. I'm intersted in seeing a well trimmed core/base > that is the "default" install. It is not minimal, it has things like yum, > and maybe a client or to for poking at the network. Then we have some groups > for various server tasks that people can look into and select exactly what > they want. Including some system-config-* stuff for managing these things, > and the x/xauth libraries for running these over ssh (no X on the box). > Also, no compiler. All those things are gainable by yum install after the > fact, or enabling the monster repo during the install and checking those. > > That sounds like a "Server" spin to me. No, that's a minimal install. A server spin installs the "fedora selection" of servers to do usual server tasks, which probably means things like http/https/webdav, web caching, ftpd, ldap, mail, DB, etc. A minimal install is an install that is good enough to boot the system, log on it and install what you really need, but is not in practice usable by itself. OG. From jkeating at redhat.com Sat Jan 13 17:00:08 2007 From: jkeating at redhat.com (Jesse Keating) Date: Sat, 13 Jan 2007 12:00:08 -0500 Subject: Fedora Server Spin In-Reply-To: <20070113164956.GA65097@dspnet.fr.eu.org> References: <1168558399.21083.42.camel@localhost.localdomain> <200701121359.27910.jkeating@redhat.com> <20070113164956.GA65097@dspnet.fr.eu.org> Message-ID: <200701131200.11693.jkeating@redhat.com> On Saturday 13 January 2007 11:49, Olivier Galibert wrote: > No, that's a minimal install. ?A server spin installs the "fedora > selection" of servers to do usual server tasks, which probably means > things like http/https/webdav, web caching, ftpd, ldap, mail, DB, etc. > > A minimal install is an install that is good enough to boot the > system, log on it and install what you really need, but is not in > practice usable by itself. Perhaps you're missing the sublty between what is the "default" install when you just click next/next/next, and what is ON the server CD. The spin == whats in the CD, and a define "default" install. By "default" we would like to not make any assumptions about what kind of server the user wants to run, so we don't install any. However we include them in the spin, so that they could CHOOSE to have certain things during the install, to go beyond the "default" install. -- Jesse Keating Release Engineer: Fedora -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 189 bytes Desc: not available URL: From buildsys at redhat.com Sat Jan 13 17:47:36 2007 From: buildsys at redhat.com (buildsys at redhat.com) Date: Sat, 13 Jan 2007 12:47:36 -0500 Subject: rawhide report: 20070113 changes Message-ID: <200701131747.l0DHlaoe011614@hs20-bc2-6.build.redhat.com> New package ConsoleKit System daemon for tracking users, sessions and seats Updated Packages: cups-1:1.2.7-7.fc7 ------------------ * Fri Jan 12 2007 Tim Waugh 1:1.2.7-7 - Don't even reload CUPS when rotating logs (bug #215024). * Fri Dec 08 2006 Tim Waugh - Requires tmpwatch for the cron.daily script (bug #218901). device-mapper-1.02.14-2.fc7 --------------------------- * Fri Jan 12 2007 Alasdair Kergon - 1.02.14-2 - Rebuild. * Thu Jan 11 2007 Alasdair Kergon - 1.02.14-1 - Use CFLAGS when linking so mixed sparc builds can supply -m64. - Export dm_basename() and dm_tree_use_no_flush_suspend(). - Cope with a trailing space when comparing tables prior to possible reload. * Tue Nov 28 2006 Alasdair Kergon - 1.02.13-1 - Update dmsetup man page (setgeometry & message). - Suppress encryption key in 'dmsetup table' output unless --showkeys supplied. eclipse-1:3.2.1-30.fc7 ---------------------- * Fri Jan 12 2007 Ben Konrath 3.2.1-30 - Fix %postun problem in the sdk sub-package. * Thu Jan 11 2007 Ben Konrath 3.2.1-29 - Remove SWT JNI symlinks from %{libdir}. * Wed Jan 10 2007 Ben Konrath 3.2.1-28 - Rpmlint cleanups. fontconfig-2.4.2-2.fc7 ---------------------- * Fri Jan 12 2007 Behdad Esfahbod - 2.4.2-2 - Change /usr/share/X11/fonts/OTF to /usr/share/X11/fonts/TTF - Resolves: #220809 gawk-3.1.5-13.fc7 ----------------- * Fri Jan 12 2007 Karel Zak 3.1.5-13 - improve freewstr patch gdb-6.5-26.fc7 -------------- * Sat Jan 13 2007 Jan Kratochvil - 6.5-26 - Fix unwinding of non-debug (.eh_frame) PPC code, Andreas Schwab (BZ 140532). - Fix unwinding of debug (.debug_frame) PPC code, workaround GCC (BZ 140532). - Fix missing testsuite .log output of testcases using get_compiler_info(). * Fri Jan 12 2007 Jan Kratochvil - 6.5-25 - Fix unwinding of non-CFI (w/o debuginfo) PPC code by recent GCC (BZ 140532). ghostscript-8.15.3-4.fc7 ------------------------ * Fri Jan 12 2007 Tim Waugh 8.15.3-4 - Own cjkv directory (bug #221380, bug #222375). * Tue Dec 05 2006 Tim Waugh 8.15.3-3 - Added split-cidfnmap patch (bug #194592). * Thu Nov 16 2006 Tim Waugh 8.15.3-2 - 8.15.3. No longer need gtk2, ps2epsi, badc, pagesize, use-external-freetype, split-font-configuration or cjkv patches. - Renumbered patches. gphoto2-2.3.1-2.fc7 ------------------- * Thu Jan 11 2007 Jindrich Novy 2.3.1-2 - really fix the gphoto2-devel multilib conflict (#205211) jpackage-utils-0:1.7.3-1jpp.2.fc7 --------------------------------- * Thu Jan 11 2007 Thomas Fitzsimmons - 0:1.7.3-1jpp.2.fc7 - Add 1.6.0 directories missed in merge. - Resolves: rhbz#221262 libdhcp-1.19-1.fc7 ------------------ * Fri Jan 12 2007 David Cantrell - 1.19-1 - Catch return value of asprintf() in ifxDHCPv6() and ifxDHCPv4() * Thu Jan 11 2007 David Cantrell - 1.18-1 - Set IFF_UP and IFF_RUNNING flags on interface before trying to get a DHCP lease. Fixes a problem with DHCP failing in anaconda using 2.6.19 and higher kernels (#221392). * Fri Oct 27 2006 David Cantrell - 1.17-1 - Replace enum dhcp_state_e in libdhcp.h with the actual typedef libselinux-1.33.4-2.fc7 ----------------------- * Fri Jan 12 2007 Dan Walsh - 1.33.4-2 - Add reference to selinux man page in all man pages to make apropos work Resolves: # 217881 * Thu Jan 11 2007 Dan Walsh - 1.33.4-1 - Upstream wanted some minor changes, upgrading to keep api the same - Upgrade to upstream * Merged selinux_check_securetty_context() and support from Dan Walsh. Resolves: #200110 man-pages-2.43-3.fc7 -------------------- * Fri Jan 12 2007 Ivana Varekova 2.43-3 - fix mmap2 man page - spec file cleanup * Fri Dec 08 2006 Ivana Varekova 2.43-2 - remove old/wrong patches - fix tgkill/tkill man pages inconsistency * Fri Dec 01 2006 Ivana Varekova 2.43-1 - update to 2.43 - fix mount.2 man page (#211608) numactl-0.9.8-2.fc7 ------------------- * Fri Jan 12 2007 Neil Horman - 0.9.8-2.fc7 - Properly fixed bz 221982 - Updated revision string to include .fc7 policycoreutils-1.33.12-2.fc7 ----------------------------- * Fri Jan 12 2007 Dan Walsh 1.33.12-2 - Update man pages by adding SELinux to header to fix apropos database Resolves: #217881 postgresql-8.2.1-2.fc7 ---------------------- * Fri Jan 12 2007 Tom Lane 8.2.1-2 - Split -pl subpackage into three new packages to reduce dependencies and track upstream project's packaging. rhpl-0.201-2 ------------ * Sat Jan 13 2007 Jesse Keating - 0.201-2 - rebuild in correct collection * Fri Jan 12 2007 Chris Llumens - 0.201-1 - Fix traceback. setarch-2.0-3.fc7 ----------------- * Fri Jan 12 2007 Jindrich Novy 2.0-3 - add sparc32bash alias to keep compatibility with sparc32 which is obsoleted by setarch for some time (#221976), thanks to Dennis Gilmore stardict-2.4.8-1.fc7 -------------------- * Fri Jan 12 2007 Mayank Jain - Added perl-XML-Parser as BuildRequires * Thu Jan 11 2007 Mayank Jain * Thu Jan 11 2007 Mayank Jain - Updated to version 2.4.8 - Removed invalid patch - stardict-2.4.5-invalid-cplusplus.patch - Reset release number to 2.4.8-1 - Added dist-tag to the release version directive system-config-printer-0.7.47-1.fc7 ---------------------------------- * Fri Jan 12 2007 Tim Waugh 0.7.47-1 - 0.7.47: - Fixed minor text bugs (bug #177433). - Handle shell builtins in the driver check (bug #222413). system-config-securitylevel-1.7.0-1.fc7 --------------------------------------- * Fri Jan 12 2007 Chris Lumens 1.7.0-1 - Change .desktop file (#218925). - Make iptables default FORWARD rule REJECT (#221828). - Correct F12 behavior on main page (#221942). - Disable IPv6 firewall when asked to (#221942). - Support adding a user-specified custom firewall rules file that gets included after the defaults (#138143). vixie-cron-4:4.1-69.fc7 ----------------------- * Wed Jan 10 2007 Marcela Maslanova - 4:4.1-69 - patch from bz - Cron does not detect changed symlink - rhbz#221856 Broken deps for s390 ---------------------------------------------------------- systemtap - 0.5.10-1.fc7.s390 requires kernel >= 0:2.6.9-11 systemtap-runtime - 0.5.10-1.fc7.s390 requires kernel >= 0:2.6.9-11 From lists at sapience.com Sat Jan 13 17:48:09 2007 From: lists at sapience.com (Mail List) Date: Sat, 13 Jan 2007 12:48:09 -0500 Subject: yum roll back option? In-Reply-To: References: <000001c736e0$0ebd9c30$020aa8c0@a18> <604aa7910701130043s3397b602ie74af32be8771604@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <200701131248.09289.lists@sapience.com> On Saturday 13 January 2007 04:29, Panu Matilainen wrote: > On Fri, 12 Jan 2007, Jeff Spaleta wrote: > ... post install scripts .. In principal the package could provide and uninstall script which would reverse the scripts. THis is of course an additional burdon on the maintainer - and well may be a better thing to target enterprise and have customer cover the cost. g/ From jkeating at redhat.com Sat Jan 13 17:48:58 2007 From: jkeating at redhat.com (Jesse Keating) Date: Sat, 13 Jan 2007 12:48:58 -0500 Subject: yum roll back option? In-Reply-To: <200701131248.09289.lists@sapience.com> References: <000001c736e0$0ebd9c30$020aa8c0@a18> <200701131248.09289.lists@sapience.com> Message-ID: <200701131248.58535.jkeating@redhat.com> On Saturday 13 January 2007 12:48, Mail List wrote: > ? In principal the package could provide and uninstall script which would > reverse the scripts. THis is of course an additional burdon on the > maintainer - and well may be a better thing to target enterprise and have > customer cover the cost. And you can know how to "rollback" those scripts for every possible rollback point? Not just D->C, but D->B, D->A or maybe D-> B as upgraded by A, and D-> B directly installed. -- Jesse Keating Release Engineer: Fedora -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 189 bytes Desc: not available URL: From lists at sapience.com Sat Jan 13 18:14:48 2007 From: lists at sapience.com (Mail List) Date: Sat, 13 Jan 2007 13:14:48 -0500 Subject: yum roll back option? In-Reply-To: <200701131248.58535.jkeating@redhat.com> References: <000001c736e0$0ebd9c30$020aa8c0@a18> <200701131248.09289.lists@sapience.com> <200701131248.58535.jkeating@redhat.com> Message-ID: <200701131314.48437.lists@sapience.com> On Saturday 13 January 2007 12:48, Jesse Keating wrote: > And you can know how to "rollback" those scripts for every possible > rollback point? Not just D->C, but D->B, D->A or maybe D-> B as upgraded > by A, and D-> B directly installed. Indeed - I suspect 99% of customers would be happy with a single rollback. But in principal with a good scheme to keep prev files etc one could iterate the scripts restoring 1 version back at a time until you've reached the level you want. From clydekunkel7734 at cox.net Sat Jan 13 18:42:13 2007 From: clydekunkel7734 at cox.net (Clyde E. Kunkel) Date: Sat, 13 Jan 2007 13:42:13 -0500 Subject: rawhide report: 20070113 changes In-Reply-To: <200701131037.l0DAbs0X009196@hs20-bc2-6.build.redhat.com> References: <200701131037.l0DAbs0X009196@hs20-bc2-6.build.redhat.com> Message-ID: <45A92805.4000307@cox.net> buildsys at redhat.com wrote: > New package ConsoleKit > System daemon for tracking users, sessions and seats > > > > Updated Packages: > > man-pages-2.43-3.fc7 > -------------------- > * Fri Jan 12 2007 Ivana Varekova 2.43-3 > - fix mmap2 man page > - spec file cleanup > Where, oh where, are the mkinitrd updates to fix software raid probs? Enquiring minds, etc, etc.... Please, good folks, help us software raid (and LV over software raid) folks resolve the issues. I see patches listed in the BZs, and would try them if I knew how, but as just a poor, illiterate tester, must depend on the gurus. (Somehow, it is beginning to seem that mkinitrd may be a poor relative for some reason and that just doesn't make sense, so there must be more to this story than meets the eye.) > numactl-0.9.8-2.fc7 > ------------------- > * Fri Jan 12 2007 Neil Horman - 0.9.8-2.fc7 > - Properly fixed bz 221982 > - Updated revision string to include .fc7 > > -- Regards, Old Fart (my reply-to address is "munged" to defeat spambots) From jspaleta at gmail.com Sat Jan 13 20:10:54 2007 From: jspaleta at gmail.com (Jeff Spaleta) Date: Sat, 13 Jan 2007 11:10:54 -0900 Subject: yum roll back option? In-Reply-To: <200701131314.48437.lists@sapience.com> References: <000001c736e0$0ebd9c30$020aa8c0@a18> <200701131248.09289.lists@sapience.com> <200701131248.58535.jkeating@redhat.com> <200701131314.48437.lists@sapience.com> Message-ID: <604aa7910701131210m129a9ae6rc5703f390e4de0d4@mail.gmail.com> On 1/13/07, Mail List wrote: > Indeed - I suspect 99% of customers would be happy with a single rollback. > But in principal with a good scheme to keep prev files etc one could iterate > the scripts restoring 1 version back at a time until you've reached the level > you want. I think you grossly over-simplify the problem space. But at a basic level how do you suggest we actually verify that the roll-back succeeded correctly for any given scriplet action for any given package? Not all files on the system are tracked by rpmdb, and scriplets can act on any file. For example... some scripts can and will change ownership or permissions under certain conditions.. on items like configuration files why may or may not be tracked. How exactly do you roll-back those individual system permissions or ownership as a package maintainer? All you can do is roll-back to a default for all systems... but that is not a garuntee to be roll-back to the previous system state of any particular system. And in some cases it makes absolutely no sense to roll the action back automatically. What about packages that add groups or users onto your system? Are you suggesting you roll-back scriptlet actions and remove those users and groups automatically.. potentially leaving users unable to access files which are owned by that group? The only way you are going to get real system roll-back is by drastically reducing the amount of functionality that scriptlets are allowed to do by defining very strict policy statements. I've looked into my crystal ball... that's not happening in Fedora for at least the first 16 releases, I'd look further into the future but my crystal ball only as a 4 bit clock. I would however encurage you to get familiar with discussions concerning carrier grade linux and its servicability requirement discussions to make for more informed discussions here. -jef From nicolas.mailhot at laposte.net Sat Jan 13 20:45:30 2007 From: nicolas.mailhot at laposte.net (Nicolas Mailhot) Date: Sat, 13 Jan 2007 21:45:30 +0100 Subject: rawhide report: 20070113 changes In-Reply-To: <45A92805.4000307@cox.net> References: <200701131037.l0DAbs0X009196@hs20-bc2-6.build.redhat.com> <45A92805.4000307@cox.net> Message-ID: <1168721130.4155.10.camel@rousalka.dyndns.org> Le samedi 13 janvier 2007 ? 13:42 -0500, Clyde E. Kunkel a ?crit : > Where, oh where, are the mkinitrd updates to fix software raid probs? > Enquiring minds, etc, etc.... > > Please, good folks, help us software raid (and LV over software raid) > folks resolve the issues. I see patches listed in the BZs, and would > try them if I knew how, but as just a poor, illiterate tester, must > depend on the gurus. Clyde, If that makes you feel better the patch I posted in BZ was made in console mode after booting from a rescue disc (I had foolishly removed my last working initrd). So there are worse situations to be in. You don't have to debug shell scripts in 2 80?25 screens. Regards, -- Nicolas Mailhot -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: signature.asc Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 197 bytes Desc: Ceci est une partie de message num?riquement sign?e URL: From nicolas.mailhot at laposte.net Sat Jan 13 20:51:02 2007 From: nicolas.mailhot at laposte.net (Nicolas Mailhot) Date: Sat, 13 Jan 2007 21:51:02 +0100 Subject: yum roll back option? In-Reply-To: <200701131248.09289.lists@sapience.com> References: <000001c736e0$0ebd9c30$020aa8c0@a18> <604aa7910701130043s3397b602ie74af32be8771604@mail.gmail.com> <200701131248.09289.lists@sapience.com> Message-ID: <1168721462.4155.17.camel@rousalka.dyndns.org> Le samedi 13 janvier 2007 ? 12:48 -0500, Mail List a ?crit : > On Saturday 13 January 2007 04:29, Panu Matilainen wrote: > > On Fri, 12 Jan 2007, Jeff Spaleta wrote: > > > ... post install scripts .. > > In principal the package could provide and uninstall script which would > reverse the scripts. THis is of course an additional burdon on the > maintainer - and well may be a better thing to target enterprise and have > customer cover the cost. This would be very hard to do. On post install you know the target state of the system, but how are you supposed to guess what are you roll backing to ? IMHO if you want working rollback rpm or yum needs to intercept file writes and snapshot their previous state (which still leaves other operations like sending dbus signals for the packager to rollback manually) -- Nicolas Mailhot -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: signature.asc Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 197 bytes Desc: Ceci est une partie de message num?riquement sign?e URL: From vonbrand at inf.utfsm.cl Sat Jan 13 21:31:12 2007 From: vonbrand at inf.utfsm.cl (Horst H. von Brand) Date: Sat, 13 Jan 2007 18:31:12 -0300 Subject: rawhide report: 20070113 changes In-Reply-To: Your message of "Sat, 13 Jan 2007 05:37:54 CDT." <200701131037.l0DAbs0X009196@hs20-bc2-6.build.redhat.com> Message-ID: <200701132131.l0DLVCJt009201@laptop13.inf.utfsm.cl> buildsys at redhat.com wrote: [...] Here gutenprint-plugin replaced gimp-print-plugin, and that requires gutenprint. But gutenprint clashes with gimp-print: Transaction Check Error: file /usr/bin/escputil from install of gutenprint-5.0.0-2.fc7 conflicts with file from package gimp-print-utils-4.2.7-24.fc7 file /usr/share/man/man1/escputil.1.gz from install of gutenprint-5.0.0-2.fc7 conflicts with file from package gimp-print-utils-4.2.7-24.fc7 Deleting that last one makes the update go through. [Yes, I know this is in extras right now...] -- Dr. Horst H. von Brand User #22616 counter.li.org Departamento de Informatica Fono: +56 32 2654431 Universidad Tecnica Federico Santa Maria +56 32 2654239 Casilla 110-V, Valparaiso, Chile Fax: +56 32 2797513 From jwilliam at xmission.com Sun Jan 14 00:11:00 2007 From: jwilliam at xmission.com (Jerry Williams) Date: Sat, 13 Jan 2007 17:11:00 -0700 Subject: yum roll back option? In-Reply-To: References: <000001c736e0$0ebd9c30$020aa8c0@a18><604aa7910701122307y5edb939dr412da3ded8370007@mail.gmail.com><000101c736e8$4effad80$020aa8c0@a18><604aa7910701130043s3397b602ie74af32be8771604@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <001001c73770$78df3f70$020aa8c0@a18> > -----Original Message----- > From: fedora-devel-list-bounces at redhat.com [mailto:fedora-devel-list- > bounces at redhat.com] On Behalf Of Panu Matilainen > Sent: Saturday, January 13, 2007 2:30 AM > To: Development discussions related to Fedora Core > Subject: Re: yum roll back option? > > On Fri, 12 Jan 2007, Jeff Spaleta wrote: > > > > yum has a caching option, which you are free to enable. > > man yum.conf, look for keepcache > > > > Taken together with the available rpmpkg log, you can reinstall older > > versions of a package. > > I believe there is a yum plugin that you will find useful, if you > > don't want to resort to rpm -Uvh --oldpackage, to do the dirty work. > > yum info yum-allowdowngrade > > "This plugin adds a --allow-downgrade flag to yum to make it possible to > > manually downgrade packages to specific versions." > > Or you can enable rpm rollbacks. You can't use yum to do the actual > rollback but you can use rpm cli for that, yum (or actually rpmlib) will > create the rollback packages on erasures and upgrades. > > See for example http://www.linuxjournal.com/article/7034 and > http://www.oreillynet.com/onlamp/blog/2006/01/rpm_rollback_in_fedora_core_ > 45.html > forsome further info on the topic. > > - Panu - > I went and looked at the example and created the /etc/rpm/macros and put %_repackage_all_erasures 1 in it. Then I ran the rpm -Uvh --oldpackage on about 10 packages. I shutdown the machine and put the old network card back in and it worked fine. I also changed keepcache=1 in /etc/yum.conf. Then I ran yum update for a few packages at a time and left glibc last. I installed all of the updates that I had put back and it still works fine. So then I tried to power of the box and unplug it and it still works. So I don't know what to say about the error. But it has been a very good learning experience for me. I again have learned some new things and I want to thank everyone for their comments and help. I have thought about the different things people have said and this doesn't seem to be an easy problem. It turns out that some of the packages haven't been changed from the original release, this was their first time. I also noticed in that Jan 07 10:50:15 Updated: tar.i386 2:1.15.1-23.fc6 is in the yum.log, but that it never shows up in any of my rpmpkgs logs. # grep tar.i386 yum.log Nov 30 01:00:18 Updated: tar.i386 2:1.15.1-21.fc6 Dec 12 23:19:46 Updated: tar.i386 2:1.15.1-22.fc6 Jan 07 10:50:15 Updated: tar.i386 2:1.15.1-23.fc6 Jan 12 19:59:10 Updated: tar.i386 2:1.15.1-24.fc6 # grep ^tar rpmpkgs* rpmpkgs:tar-1.15.1-24.fc6.i386.rpm rpmpkgs.1:tar-1.15.1-22.fc6.i386.rpm rpmpkgs.2:tar-1.15.1-22.fc6.i386.rpm rpmpkgs.3:tar-1.15.1-22.fc6.i386.rpm rpmpkgs.4:tar-1.15.1-22.fc6.i386.rpm Also the man page for yum doesn't match the default in the yum.conf file: yum clean packages Eliminate any cached packages from the system. Note that pack- ages are not automatically deleted after they are downloaded. I think that default in the yum.conf should be changed to keep the files, or at least the config and man page should agree. I think that I would be happy to just be able to go back to the previous version. In most cases I would have the original media and could put the original files back. I like the idea of the %_repackage_all_erasures but I think that I would feel better with the original rpm file. Which makes me think of another idea. Some thing like yum clean packages keep=2 or change the option in yum.conf keepcache=2 where it would keep 2 versions of a package. Or maybe it would be another option. Or arguments like none, no, all, or a number for how many versions you would like to keep. I also noticed that yum didn't use the /etc/rpm/macros file, but someone did mention an option for yum.conf. But like I said I prefer to use the original rpm file and not spend the time doing the repackage. I was wondering why yum.log uses the format it does to do the logging? And what is the 2: for in like: Jan 12 19:59:10 Updated: tar.i386 2:1.15.1-24.fc6? I was just thinking it might be easier to pull into a script if it looked like: Jan 12 19:59:10 Updated: tar-1.15.1-23.fc6.i386.rpm tar-1.15.1-24.fc6.i386.rpm Date updated: old package name new package name From vonbrand at inf.utfsm.cl Sun Jan 14 02:07:33 2007 From: vonbrand at inf.utfsm.cl (Horst H. von Brand) Date: Sat, 13 Jan 2007 23:07:33 -0300 Subject: proposal: mailing list reorganization In-Reply-To: Your message of "Fri, 12 Jan 2007 19:58:09 BST." <45A7DA41.8020805@leemhuis.info> Message-ID: <200701140207.l0E27Xkd008650@laptop13.inf.utfsm.cl> Thorsten Leemhuis wrote: [...] > BTW, do we want to keep the fedora prefix if we really want to switch to > lists.fedoraproject.org (the switch is under discussion and early > evaluation) I vote for getting rid of it. -- Dr. Horst H. von Brand User #22616 counter.li.org Departamento de Informatica Fono: +56 32 2654431 Universidad Tecnica Federico Santa Maria +56 32 2654239 Casilla 110-V, Valparaiso, Chile Fax: +56 32 2797513 From clydekunkel7734 at cox.net Sun Jan 14 05:02:09 2007 From: clydekunkel7734 at cox.net (Clyde E. Kunkel) Date: Sun, 14 Jan 2007 00:02:09 -0500 Subject: rawhide report: 20070113 changes In-Reply-To: <1168721130.4155.10.camel@rousalka.dyndns.org> References: <200701131037.l0DAbs0X009196@hs20-bc2-6.build.redhat.com> <45A92805.4000307@cox.net> <1168721130.4155.10.camel@rousalka.dyndns.org> Message-ID: <45A9B951.6090406@cox.net> Nicolas Mailhot wrote: > Le samedi 13 janvier 2007 ? 13:42 -0500, Clyde E. Kunkel a ?crit : > >> Where, oh where, are the mkinitrd updates to fix software raid probs? >> Enquiring minds, etc, etc.... >> >> Please, good folks, help us software raid (and LV over software raid) >> folks resolve the issues. I see patches listed in the BZs, and would >> try them if I knew how, but as just a poor, illiterate tester, must >> depend on the gurus. > > Clyde, > > If that makes you feel better the patch I posted in BZ was made in > console mode after booting from a rescue disc (I had foolishly removed > my last working initrd). So there are worse situations to be in. You > don't have to debug shell scripts in 2 80?25 screens. > > Regards, > > Ok, thanks. I have learned to keep old initrds/kernels around when these problems occur. I wonder what will happen with FC7T1 if the problem is not resolved? Can your method be used to get the install to work? -- Regards, Old Fart (my reply-to address is "munged" to defeat spambots) From bernie at develer.com Sun Jan 14 05:24:40 2007 From: bernie at develer.com (Bernardo Innocenti) Date: Sun, 14 Jan 2007 06:24:40 +0100 Subject: proposal: mailing list reorganization In-Reply-To: <200701112239.21724.jkeating@redhat.com> References: <45A52F85.5020408@leemhuis.info> <45A70101.70608@develer.com> <200701112239.21724.jkeating@redhat.com> Message-ID: <45A9BE98.9000303@develer.com> Jesse Keating wrote: > On Thursday 11 January 2007 22:31, Bernardo Innocenti wrote: >> What's the problem with high-traffic lists? Today, almost anybody can >> afford the bandwidth and any half decent MUA can group by threads and >> apply powerful filters on the fly. > > Its not the high-traffic. Its the amount of noise vs signal. Lists like LKML > tend to have a lot of signal in that traffic. While unfortunately lists like > fedora-devel have a lot of noise, that drives off the type of people who > could handle the traffic should it be all signal. Even still its hard to > keep up, and READ that much email. Agreed. Maybe we could take a more proactive approach towards off-topic posts, trolls and "what's a grub?" kinds of threads? The GCC guys are very zelant in keeping the gcc@ list clear of homework requests and other dumb questions. And they've even learnt to do that in a politely way instead of pissing off all the newbies. Just grep the gcc list archives for the word "gcc-help". -- // Bernardo Innocenti - Develer S.r.l., R&D dept. \X/ http://www.develer.com/ From jwilliam at xmission.com Sun Jan 14 06:55:59 2007 From: jwilliam at xmission.com (Jerry Williams) Date: Sat, 13 Jan 2007 23:55:59 -0700 Subject: Fedora Server Spin In-Reply-To: <200701131200.11693.jkeating@redhat.com> References: <1168558399.21083.42.camel@localhost.localdomain><200701121359.27910.jkeating@redhat.com><20070113164956.GA65097@dspnet.fr.eu.org> <200701131200.11693.jkeating@redhat.com> Message-ID: <000101c737a9$0c26d260$020aa8c0@a18> > -----Original Message----- > From: fedora-devel-list-bounces at redhat.com [mailto:fedora-devel-list- > bounces at redhat.com] On Behalf Of Jesse Keating > Sent: Saturday, January 13, 2007 10:00 AM > To: fedora-devel-list at redhat.com > Subject: Re: Fedora Server Spin > > On Saturday 13 January 2007 11:49, Olivier Galibert wrote: > > No, that's a minimal install. ?A server spin installs the "fedora > > selection" of servers to do usual server tasks, which probably means > > things like http/https/webdav, web caching, ftpd, ldap, mail, DB, etc. > > > > A minimal install is an install that is good enough to boot the > > system, log on it and install what you really need, but is not in > > practice usable by itself. > > Perhaps you're missing the sublty between what is the "default" install > when > you just click next/next/next, and what is ON the server CD. The spin == > whats in the CD, and a define "default" install. By "default" we would > like > to not make any assumptions about what kind of server the user wants to > run, > so we don't install any. However we include them in the spin, so that > they > could CHOOSE to have certain things during the install, to go beyond > the "default" install. > > -- > Jesse Keating > Release Engineer: Fedora My servers are either: nameservers running bind, and maybe postfix and ntpd, or Web servers httpd with php and mysql, or source code boxes running cvs and winbind tied into active directory, or running a camera with motion and gqview. And if they are being backed up they need the legacy stuff for the backup software to work. All of them have either a DVD drive or are on VMware and can just use the ISO file. I have a few that don't have a monitor or keyboard or mouse, just power, network and a camera kind of boxes. None of them have Bluetooth or need to print or have sound, but may have sound cards. From pemboa at gmail.com Sun Jan 14 08:08:11 2007 From: pemboa at gmail.com (Arthur Pemberton) Date: Sun, 14 Jan 2007 02:08:11 -0600 Subject: proposal: mailing list reorganization In-Reply-To: <45A9BE98.9000303@develer.com> References: <45A52F85.5020408@leemhuis.info> <45A70101.70608@develer.com> <200701112239.21724.jkeating@redhat.com> <45A9BE98.9000303@develer.com> Message-ID: <16de708d0701140008y32cfd6c1k45dd90acdbb0216b@mail.gmail.com> On 1/13/07, Bernardo Innocenti wrote: > Jesse Keating wrote: > > > On Thursday 11 January 2007 22:31, Bernardo Innocenti wrote: > >> What's the problem with high-traffic lists? Today, almost anybody can > >> afford the bandwidth and any half decent MUA can group by threads and > >> apply powerful filters on the fly. > > > > Its not the high-traffic. Its the amount of noise vs signal. Lists like LKML > > tend to have a lot of signal in that traffic. While unfortunately lists like > > fedora-devel have a lot of noise, that drives off the type of people who > > could handle the traffic should it be all signal. Even still its hard to > > keep up, and READ that much email. > > Agreed. Maybe we could take a more proactive approach towards > off-topic posts, trolls and "what's a grub?" kinds of threads? > > The GCC guys are very zelant in keeping the gcc@ list clear of > homework requests and other dumb questions. And they've even > learnt to do that in a politely way instead of pissing off all > the newbies. > > Just grep the gcc list archives for the word "gcc-help". Maybe an introductory email (with rules) be sent upon subscription to a list, and standard responses to the type of unwanted message you described be developed, so that those familiar to the list can just copy and paste as a response. -- Fedora Core 6 and proud From seg at haxxed.com Fri Jan 12 21:56:04 2007 From: seg at haxxed.com (Callum Lerwick) Date: Fri, 12 Jan 2007 15:56:04 -0600 Subject: Fedora Server Spin In-Reply-To: <1168616065.11006.18.camel@cutter> References: <1168558399.21083.42.camel@localhost.localdomain> <1168611190.2834.19.camel@localhost.localdomain> <1168616065.11006.18.camel@cutter> Message-ID: <1168638964.13222.22.camel@localhost.localdomain> On Fri, 2007-01-12 at 10:34 -0500, seth vidal wrote: > okay this is insane. This is a server install. Let's have a single cd of > almost nothing. > > A server install should be @Core, openssh-server, yum and that's pretty > much it. > > Enough to get networking up and nothing else. After that the admin can > install the components they need for the service the server will provide > and be done with it. If this is what you want, why don't you just download a rescue CD and do a network install? Christ. When I download a server CD, I expect the CD to be filled with as much stuff as makes sense. I expect at minimum apache and a mail server. Anything less is a pointless waste of a CD. People seem to have an idea that a server spin is going to be somehow configured fundamentally differently than a desktop/KDE/kitchensink/$foo spin. This should not even be necessary. We should be 'secure' no matter what spin you install with. All spins should differ only in what packages it contains and what package groups are default. -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: signature.asc Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 189 bytes Desc: This is a digitally signed message part URL: From rms at 1407.org Sun Jan 14 00:21:32 2007 From: rms at 1407.org (Rui Miguel Silva Seabra) Date: Sun, 14 Jan 2007 00:21:32 +0000 Subject: Fedora Server Spin In-Reply-To: <200701121359.27910.jkeating@redhat.com> References: <1168558399.21083.42.camel@localhost.localdomain> <1168626262.21083.93.camel@localhost.localdomain> <3237e4410701121027wec17be7r97e1bd65b5ca93da@mail.gmail.com> <200701121359.27910.jkeating@redhat.com> Message-ID: <1168734092.4616.30.camel@localhost> Sex, 2007-01-12 ?s 13:59 -0500, Jesse Keating escreveu: > We can probably get to that. I'm intersted in seeing a well trimmed core/base > that is the "default" install. It is not minimal, it has things like yum, As long as "base" is an order or two of magnitude more sane than what it currently is, fine by me. In fact, I think that what I'm hoping for (and what Seth could probably also agree) is that when you select base on a kickstart installation you don't get to have to install openldap (just an example, there are a lot more instances of this problems) without breaking dependencies. > One thing we want to be very clear is that this is NOT designed for mission > critical or even production systems, especially with just a 13month life I'd say this is not thinking in very strategic terms, since RHEL could directly benefit from this work (I hope that is not a problem, it would seriously suck). Rui -- + No matter how much you do, you never do enough -- unknown + Whatever you do will be insignificant, | but it is very important that you do it -- Gandhi + So let's do it...? -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: signature.asc Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 189 bytes Desc: Esta ? uma parte de mensagem assinada digitalmente URL: From rms at 1407.org Sun Jan 14 00:13:28 2007 From: rms at 1407.org (Rui Miguel Silva Seabra) Date: Sun, 14 Jan 2007 00:13:28 +0000 Subject: Fedora Server Spin In-Reply-To: <1168633285.4752.6.camel@indigo.declera.com> References: <1168558399.21083.42.camel@localhost.localdomain> <1168633285.4752.6.camel@indigo.declera.com> Message-ID: <1168733608.4616.20.camel@localhost> Sex, 2007-01-12 ?s 22:21 +0200, Yanko Kaneti escreveu: > On Thu, 2007-01-11 at 15:33 -0800, David Lutterkort wrote: > > I created an initial skeleton list of packages[1] for the Fedora Serevr > > spin [2]. The list was generated by looking at all the packages ('server > > packages') in current Core and Extras Rawhide that own a file > > in /etc/rc.d/init.d or /etc/init.d. > > > The list is a first attempt at getting a package list together and needs > > a lot more love from everybody; once this list is complete we'll look at > > adding supporting packages like system-config-* and sendmail-cf. > > some essentials for a networked host. > > traceroute > mtr > bind-utils > > perhaps > > jwhois > finger Wrong on all accounts. Definitely *not* essential, but sometimes useful. Essential *maybe* on the CD iso, but not on default install. Rui -- + No matter how much you do, you never do enough -- unknown + Whatever you do will be insignificant, | but it is very important that you do it -- Gandhi + So let's do it...? -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: signature.asc Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 189 bytes Desc: Esta ? uma parte de mensagem assinada digitalmente URL: From rms at 1407.org Sun Jan 14 00:11:43 2007 From: rms at 1407.org (Rui Miguel Silva Seabra) Date: Sun, 14 Jan 2007 00:11:43 +0000 Subject: Fedora Server Spin In-Reply-To: <1168626729.21083.100.camel@localhost.localdomain> References: <1168558399.21083.42.camel@localhost.localdomain> <1168611190.2834.19.camel@localhost.localdomain> <1168616065.11006.18.camel@cutter> <1168616151.6132.44.camel@localhost> <20070112155251.8E0EA6F06E@alopias.GreenKey.net> <1168617710.11006.21.camel@cutter> <1168626729.21083.100.camel@localhost.localdomain> Message-ID: <1168733503.4616.18.camel@localhost> Sex, 2007-01-12 ?s 18:32 +0000, David Lutterkort escreveu: > On Fri, 2007-01-12 at 11:01 -0500, seth vidal wrote: > > okay - a convincing argument was made to me for some amount of items for > > i18n. So non-western-language-speaking folks can use the server install. > > Just to be clear: 'some amount of items for i18n' means X, right ? This > is fine for interactive installs, as long as we don't unnecessarily > require X (especially server and drivers) for kickstarts and text-mode > installs. > > > However, I think a server install's comps.xml is the perfect place for > > an @ultra-minimal which is narrow and controlled if only to save the one > > step a good admin will have to do anyway, which is removing all the > > unnecessary items from a server install. > > And part of this exercise is to give people a good starting point for > what's unnecessary etc. What's on your hit list for scrubbing server > installs ? Do you @redhat.com guys ever had to handle Visa 3DSecure or PCI:DSS audit programs? I do, at my line of work. The definition of "base" installs is far more permissive than it should, and it hasn't really improved. Far more... my kickstarts specify base and many dozens of -foo package *unselections*. I can provide you with one such kickstart (minus ip addresses and some portions of the post-install scripts) if you want, and there's still some work to do post-boot that I've been too lazy (in the bad sense) to find a generic form to include in the kickstart template. Rui -- + No matter how much you do, you never do enough -- unknown + Whatever you do will be insignificant, | but it is very important that you do it -- Gandhi + So let's do it...? -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: signature.asc Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 189 bytes Desc: Esta ? uma parte de mensagem assinada digitalmente URL: From rms at 1407.org Sun Jan 14 00:16:32 2007 From: rms at 1407.org (Rui Miguel Silva Seabra) Date: Sun, 14 Jan 2007 00:16:32 +0000 Subject: Fedora Server Spin In-Reply-To: <1168639551.21083.137.camel@localhost.localdomain> References: <1168558399.21083.42.camel@localhost.localdomain> <200701121359.27910.jkeating@redhat.com> <1168632318.15641.28.camel@aglarond.local> <200701121630.37656.jkeating@redhat.com> <1168639551.21083.137.camel@localhost.localdomain> Message-ID: <1168733792.4616.24.camel@localhost> Sex, 2007-01-12 ?s 22:05 +0000, David Lutterkort escreveu: > As much as I cringe at the thought of having a graphical UI on a server, > I think there are potential users of FSS (ppl with locales that don't > work well on text consoles, ppl who come from another OS and are just > too used to a graphical UI) that it makes sense to include that as an > option or even the default if we can detect that the install seems to be > for somebody that would want a GUI on their server. And just *WTF* is wrong with those people installing a "Fedora Desktop" and then afterwords yum install foo ? :) Ok, maybe you can reach a middle ground with a very fine-tune and extremely minimal base install to with other groups may be added by default. The amount of work that needs to be done to get a good server (trimmed down et all) is unreal for server installations. Heck, even glibc could use some trimming down :) Rui -- + No matter how much you do, you never do enough -- unknown + Whatever you do will be insignificant, | but it is very important that you do it -- Gandhi + So let's do it...? -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: signature.asc Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 189 bytes Desc: Esta ? uma parte de mensagem assinada digitalmente URL: From yaneti at declera.com Sun Jan 14 10:42:29 2007 From: yaneti at declera.com (Yanko Kaneti) Date: Sun, 14 Jan 2007 12:42:29 +0200 Subject: Fedora Server Spin In-Reply-To: <1168733608.4616.20.camel@localhost> References: <1168558399.21083.42.camel@localhost.localdomain> <1168633285.4752.6.camel@indigo.declera.com> <1168733608.4616.20.camel@localhost> Message-ID: <1168771349.4752.11.camel@indigo.declera.com> On Sun, 2007-01-14 at 00:13 +0000, Rui Miguel Silva Seabra wrote: > Sex, 2007-01-12 ?s 22:21 +0200, Yanko Kaneti escreveu: > > On Thu, 2007-01-11 at 15:33 -0800, David Lutterkort wrote: > > > I created an initial skeleton list of packages[1] for the Fedora Serevr > > > spin [2]. The list was generated by looking at all the packages ('server > > > packages') in current Core and Extras Rawhide that own a file > > > in /etc/rc.d/init.d or /etc/init.d. > > > > > The list is a first attempt at getting a package list together and needs > > > a lot more love from everybody; once this list is complete we'll look at > > > adding supporting packages like system-config-* and sendmail-cf. > > > > some essentials for a networked host. > > > > traceroute > > mtr > > bind-utils > > > Wrong on all accounts. Definitely *not* essential, but sometimes useful. > > Essential *maybe* on the CD iso, but not on default install. I beg to differ. You know, when you've installed your slim install and trying to get to the repos but you can't for some network reason. You better have the tools to find what's going on. Yanko From buildsys at redhat.com Sun Jan 14 11:04:47 2007 From: buildsys at redhat.com (buildsys at redhat.com) Date: Sun, 14 Jan 2007 06:04:47 -0500 Subject: rawhide report: 20070114 changes Message-ID: <200701141104.l0EB4lA4005800@hs20-bc2-6.build.redhat.com> Updated Packages: gdm-1:2.17.5-2.fc7 ------------------ * Sat Jan 13 2007 Matthias Clasen - 1:2.17.5-2 - Enable ConsoleKit support gnome-panel-2.16.2-2.fc7 ------------------------ * Sun Jan 14 2007 Matthias Clasen - 2.16.2-2 - Check for the right tracker desktop file Broken deps for s390 ---------------------------------------------------------- systemtap - 0.5.10-1.fc7.s390 requires kernel >= 0:2.6.9-11 systemtap-runtime - 0.5.10-1.fc7.s390 requires kernel >= 0:2.6.9-11 From pertusus at free.fr Sun Jan 14 11:11:24 2007 From: pertusus at free.fr (Patrice Dumas) Date: Sun, 14 Jan 2007 12:11:24 +0100 Subject: Fedora Server Spin In-Reply-To: <1168771349.4752.11.camel@indigo.declera.com> References: <1168558399.21083.42.camel@localhost.localdomain> <1168633285.4752.6.camel@indigo.declera.com> <1168733608.4616.20.camel@localhost> <1168771349.4752.11.camel@indigo.declera.com> Message-ID: <20070114111124.GA3705@free.fr> > > I beg to differ. You know, when you've installed your slim install and > trying to get to the repos but you can't for some network reason. You > better have the tools to find what's going on. Tha's why those tools should be on the CD, but not installed in the default case. -- Pat From nicolas.mailhot at laposte.net Sun Jan 14 12:01:57 2007 From: nicolas.mailhot at laposte.net (Nicolas Mailhot) Date: Sun, 14 Jan 2007 13:01:57 +0100 Subject: rawhide report: 20070113 changes In-Reply-To: <200701132131.l0DLVCJt009201@laptop13.inf.utfsm.cl> References: <200701132131.l0DLVCJt009201@laptop13.inf.utfsm.cl> Message-ID: <1168776117.3750.3.camel@rousalka.dyndns.org> Le samedi 13 janvier 2007 ? 18:31 -0300, Horst H. von Brand a ?crit : > buildsys at redhat.com wrote: > > [...] > > Here gutenprint-plugin replaced gimp-print-plugin, and that requires > gutenprint. But gutenprint clashes with gimp-print: > > Transaction Check Error: file /usr/bin/escputil from install of gutenprint-5.0.0-2.fc7 conflicts with file from package gimp-print-utils-4.2.7-24.fc7 > file /usr/share/man/man1/escputil.1.gz from install of gutenprint-5.0.0-2.fc7 conflicts with file from package gimp-print-utils-4.2.7-24.fc7 > > Deleting that last one makes the update go through. > > [Yes, I know this is in extras right now...] Also there is the small matter of replacing a gtk1-clean package with a needs-gtk1 one (and that after all the efforts to get rid of gtk1 for common stuff) I'd personally pull gutenprint till this is resolved -- Nicolas Mailhot -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: signature.asc Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 197 bytes Desc: Ceci est une partie de message num?riquement sign?e URL: From yaneti at declera.com Sun Jan 14 12:08:54 2007 From: yaneti at declera.com (Yanko Kaneti) Date: Sun, 14 Jan 2007 14:08:54 +0200 Subject: Fedora Server Spin In-Reply-To: <20070114111124.GA3705@free.fr> References: <1168558399.21083.42.camel@localhost.localdomain> <1168633285.4752.6.camel@indigo.declera.com> <1168733608.4616.20.camel@localhost> <1168771349.4752.11.camel@indigo.declera.com> <20070114111124.GA3705@free.fr> Message-ID: <1168776534.4752.23.camel@indigo.declera.com> On Sun, 2007-01-14 at 12:11 +0100, Patrice Dumas wrote: > > > > I beg to differ. You know, when you've installed your slim install and > > trying to get to the repos but you can't for some network reason. You > > better have the tools to find what's going on. > > Tha's why those tools should be on the CD, but not installed in the > default case. Having to go back to the CD (or any other install media) for basic troubleshooting tasks seems like a stretch and rather counter-intuitive to me. Its not what I imagine "base" to be. So, yeah, if everything is fine you probably won't need these right away. But its hard to imagine a server admin not needing these tools sooner or later, so I see no point of not having them installed other than grasping for straws space savings. Cheers Yanko From pertusus at free.fr Sun Jan 14 12:37:41 2007 From: pertusus at free.fr (Patrice Dumas) Date: Sun, 14 Jan 2007 13:37:41 +0100 Subject: Fedora Server Spin In-Reply-To: <1168776534.4752.23.camel@indigo.declera.com> References: <1168558399.21083.42.camel@localhost.localdomain> <1168633285.4752.6.camel@indigo.declera.com> <1168733608.4616.20.camel@localhost> <1168771349.4752.11.camel@indigo.declera.com> <20070114111124.GA3705@free.fr> <1168776534.4752.23.camel@indigo.declera.com> Message-ID: <20070114123741.GB3705@free.fr> > So, yeah, if everything is fine you probably won't need these right > away. But its hard to imagine a server admin not needing these tools > sooner or later, so I see no point of not having them installed other > than grasping for straws space savings. It may be desirable from the security point of view, for example, to avoid having packages that are not strictly required installed. -- Pat From jkeating at redhat.com Sun Jan 14 13:54:07 2007 From: jkeating at redhat.com (Jesse Keating) Date: Sun, 14 Jan 2007 08:54:07 -0500 Subject: Fedora Server Spin In-Reply-To: <1168734092.4616.30.camel@localhost> References: <1168558399.21083.42.camel@localhost.localdomain> <200701121359.27910.jkeating@redhat.com> <1168734092.4616.30.camel@localhost> Message-ID: <200701140854.10606.jkeating@redhat.com> On Saturday 13 January 2007 19:21, Rui Miguel Silva Seabra wrote: > As long as "base" is an order or two of magnitude more sane than what it > currently is, fine by me. > > In fact, I think that what I'm hoping for (and what Seth could probably > also agree) is that when you select base on a kickstart installation you > don't get to have to install openldap (just an example, there are a lot > more instances of this problems) without breaking dependencies. Perhaps what we can do is move a few things over to @Core, allow base to have some of the things other seem to want like network diag tools. Those that want the barest possible can use @Core in kickstarts instead of @Base, and grow from there. -- Jesse Keating Release Engineer: Fedora -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 189 bytes Desc: not available URL: From lists at sapience.com Sun Jan 14 17:25:35 2007 From: lists at sapience.com (Mail List) Date: Sun, 14 Jan 2007 12:25:35 -0500 Subject: yum roll back option? In-Reply-To: <1168721462.4155.17.camel@rousalka.dyndns.org> References: <000001c736e0$0ebd9c30$020aa8c0@a18> <200701131248.09289.lists@sapience.com> <1168721462.4155.17.camel@rousalka.dyndns.org> Message-ID: <200701141225.35519.lists@sapience.com> On Saturday 13 January 2007 15:51, Nicolas Mailhot wrote: > > In principal the package could provide and uninstall script which would > > This would be very hard to do. On post install you know the target state > of the system, but how are you supposed to guess what are you roll > backing to ? I think the reasoble choice is to roll back to state as it was when the rpm was installed - noone would expect to roll back to an arbitrary state. g/ From nicolas.mailhot at laposte.net Sun Jan 14 18:00:27 2007 From: nicolas.mailhot at laposte.net (Nicolas Mailhot) Date: Sun, 14 Jan 2007 19:00:27 +0100 Subject: yum roll back option? In-Reply-To: <200701141225.35519.lists@sapience.com> References: <000001c736e0$0ebd9c30$020aa8c0@a18> <200701131248.09289.lists@sapience.com> <1168721462.4155.17.camel@rousalka.dyndns.org> <200701141225.35519.lists@sapience.com> Message-ID: <1168797627.5622.4.camel@rousalka.dyndns.org> Le dimanche 14 janvier 2007 ? 12:25 -0500, Mail List a ?crit : > On Saturday 13 January 2007 15:51, Nicolas Mailhot wrote: > > > In principal the package could provide and uninstall script which would > > > > This would be very hard to do. On post install you know the target state > > of the system, but how are you supposed to guess what are you roll > > backing to ? > > I think the reasoble choice is to roll back to state as it was when the rpm > was installed - noone would expect to roll back to an arbitrary state. But then the *package* itself does not know this state. The system does. -- Nicolas Mailhot -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: signature.asc Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 197 bytes Desc: Ceci est une partie de message num?riquement sign?e URL: From heiko.adams at gmx.de Sun Jan 14 19:09:05 2007 From: heiko.adams at gmx.de (Heiko Adams) Date: Sun, 14 Jan 2007 20:09:05 +0100 Subject: Updated Firefox 3 Roadmap Message-ID: <45AA7FD1.3060809@gmx.de> -----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- Hash: SHA1 Hello guys, maybe you've noticed that the mozilla foundation has updates the planings and the roadmap for firefox 3. The most interesting fact is, that the release is scheduled at the third quater 2007. It would be interesting how this update affects the planing to provide a firefox 3 rpm for fedora core 5 & 6 users. Maybe we should think again about updating fedora's firefox to firefox 2 because afair support for firefox 1.5 ends at may 2007. Regards, Heiko Adams -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: GnuPG v2.0.1 (GNU/Linux) Comment: Using GnuPG with Fedora - http://enigmail.mozdev.org iD8DBQFFqn/RFs/JPNR65YARAr72AJ4n8YH3R1b2pNCdy6t88r6pPfTe4gCgkbGg 2vtw5XpSLjxRcqZqK2fZVAs= =BFy1 -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- From fedora at leemhuis.info Sun Jan 14 19:43:30 2007 From: fedora at leemhuis.info (Thorsten Leemhuis) Date: Sun, 14 Jan 2007 20:43:30 +0100 Subject: Updated Firefox 3 Roadmap In-Reply-To: <45AA7FD1.3060809@gmx.de> References: <45AA7FD1.3060809@gmx.de> Message-ID: <45AA87E2.4030501@leemhuis.info> Heiko Adams schrieb: > maybe you've noticed that the mozilla foundation has updates the > planings and the roadmap for firefox 3. > The most interesting fact is, that the release is scheduled at the third > quater 2007. [...] The most important fact IMHO is: End-of-life for Firefox 1.5.x.y is April 2007 according to http://wiki.mozilla.org/ReleaseRoadmap At least FC6 will then be at the middle of it's lifespan then and sill have round about 7 months to live. Do we really want to backport security fixes during all that time? I thought we have a lot to do already. Sure, those security fixes will be produced for RHEL5 in any case, but it that really worth the trouble building and testing them for Fedora? CU thl From heiko.adams at gmx.de Sun Jan 14 21:40:49 2007 From: heiko.adams at gmx.de (Heiko Adams) Date: Sun, 14 Jan 2007 22:40:49 +0100 Subject: Updated Firefox 3 Roadmap In-Reply-To: <45AA87E2.4030501@leemhuis.info> References: <45AA7FD1.3060809@gmx.de> <45AA87E2.4030501@leemhuis.info> Message-ID: <45AAA361.9090308@gmx.de> -----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- Hash: SHA1 Am 14.01.2007 20:43 schrieb Thorsten Leemhuis: > At least FC6 will then be at the middle of it's lifespan then and sill > have round about 7 months to live. Do we really want to backport > security fixes during all that time? I thought we have a lot to do > already. Sure, those security fixes will be produced for RHEL5 in any > case, but it that really worth the trouble building and testing them for > Fedora? > IMHO backporting security patches from 2.x to 1.5.x.y conflicts with fedora's philosophy of beeing bleeding edge. So I think that there only two real alternatives: - - Updating the Firefox of Fedora Core 5 & 6 to version 2.0.x.y. - - Updating the Firefox of Fedora Core 5 & 6 to a non final version of Firefox 3 with all the risks of a non final version. Personally I'd prever to update firefox to version 2.0.x.y until version 3 final is released. Regards, Heiko -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: GnuPG v2.0.1 (GNU/Linux) Comment: Using GnuPG with Fedora - http://enigmail.mozdev.org iD8DBQFFqqNgFs/JPNR65YARAtGcAKCuxp+65yD3TG4Px6lKaYIApasTRQCcCVnp FT8H9KQjJxLYvdfxZJBg2SY= =/xlh -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- From lists at sapience.com Sun Jan 14 23:25:35 2007 From: lists at sapience.com (Mail List) Date: Sun, 14 Jan 2007 18:25:35 -0500 Subject: yum roll back option? In-Reply-To: <1168797627.5622.4.camel@rousalka.dyndns.org> References: <000001c736e0$0ebd9c30$020aa8c0@a18> <200701141225.35519.lists@sapience.com> <1168797627.5622.4.camel@rousalka.dyndns.org> Message-ID: <200701141825.35884.lists@sapience.com> On Sunday 14 January 2007 13:00, Nicolas Mailhot wrote: > > But then the *package* itself does not know this state. The system does. I'm sure I'm missing something - but if a package install changes a file - sat /etc/foo and saves the old in /etc/foo.rpmold - then at least in that case foo can be restored - all that needs be done is keep a history of things that were replaced so they can be restored. From vonbrand at inf.utfsm.cl Sun Jan 14 23:58:22 2007 From: vonbrand at inf.utfsm.cl (Horst H. von Brand) Date: Sun, 14 Jan 2007 20:58:22 -0300 Subject: Fedora Server Spin In-Reply-To: Message from Rui Miguel Silva Seabra of "Sun, 14 Jan 2007 00:13:28 -0000." <1168733608.4616.20.camel@localhost> Message-ID: <200701142358.l0ENwMrx009506@laptop13.inf.utfsm.cl> Rui Miguel Silva Seabra wrote: > Sex, 2007-01-12 ??s 22:21 +0200, Yanko Kaneti escreveu: > > On Thu, 2007-01-11 at 15:33 -0800, David Lutterkort wrote: > > > I created an initial skeleton list of packages[1] for the Fedora Serevr > > > spin [2]. The list was generated by looking at all the packages ('server > > > packages') in current Core and Extras Rawhide that own a file > > > in /etc/rc.d/init.d or /etc/init.d. > > > > > The list is a first attempt at getting a package list together and needs > > > a lot more love from everybody; once this list is complete we'll look at > > > adding supporting packages like system-config-* and sendmail-cf. > > > > some essentials for a networked host. > > > > traceroute > > mtr > > bind-utils > > > > perhaps > > > > jwhois > > finger > > Wrong on all accounts. Definitely *not* essential, but sometimes useful. > > Essential *maybe* on the CD iso, but not on default install. This is "a first attempt at getting a package list", not "packages on the default install". That would be much more like a minimal running system. -- Dr. Horst H. von Brand User #22616 counter.li.org Departamento de Informatica Fono: +56 32 2654431 Universidad Tecnica Federico Santa Maria +56 32 2654239 Casilla 110-V, Valparaiso, Chile Fax: +56 32 2797513 From rms at 1407.org Mon Jan 15 00:24:39 2007 From: rms at 1407.org (Rui Miguel Silva Seabra) Date: Mon, 15 Jan 2007 00:24:39 +0000 Subject: Fedora Server Spin In-Reply-To: <200701140854.10606.jkeating@redhat.com> References: <1168558399.21083.42.camel@localhost.localdomain> <200701121359.27910.jkeating@redhat.com> <1168734092.4616.30.camel@localhost> <200701140854.10606.jkeating@redhat.com> Message-ID: <1168820679.5322.22.camel@localhost> Dom, 2007-01-14 ?s 08:54 -0500, Jesse Keating escreveu: > On Saturday 13 January 2007 19:21, Rui Miguel Silva Seabra wrote: > > As long as "base" is an order or two of magnitude more sane than what it > > currently is, fine by me. > > > > In fact, I think that what I'm hoping for (and what Seth could probably > > also agree) is that when you select base on a kickstart installation you > > don't get to have to install openldap (just an example, there are a lot > > more instances of this problems) without breaking dependencies. > > Perhaps what we can do is move a few things over to @Core, allow base to have > some of the things other seem to want like network diag tools. Those that > want the barest possible can use @Core in kickstarts instead of @Base, and > grow from there. That would be nice! Rui -- + No matter how much you do, you never do enough -- unknown + Whatever you do will be insignificant, | but it is very important that you do it -- Gandhi + So let's do it...? -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: signature.asc Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 189 bytes Desc: Esta ? uma parte de mensagem assinada digitalmente URL: From mclasen at redhat.com Mon Jan 15 02:35:38 2007 From: mclasen at redhat.com (Matthias Clasen) Date: Sun, 14 Jan 2007 21:35:38 -0500 Subject: Updated Firefox 3 Roadmap In-Reply-To: <45AA87E2.4030501@leemhuis.info> References: <45AA7FD1.3060809@gmx.de> <45AA87E2.4030501@leemhuis.info> Message-ID: <1168828538.31678.5.camel@localhost.localdomain> On Sun, 2007-01-14 at 20:43 +0100, Thorsten Leemhuis wrote: > Heiko Adams schrieb: > > maybe you've noticed that the mozilla foundation has updates the > > planings and the roadmap for firefox 3. > > The most interesting fact is, that the release is scheduled at the third > > quater 2007. [...] > > The most important fact IMHO is: End-of-life for Firefox 1.5.x.y > is April 2007 according to > http://wiki.mozilla.org/ReleaseRoadmap > > At least FC6 will then be at the middle of it's lifespan then and sill > have round about 7 months to live. Do we really want to backport > security fixes during all that time? I thought we have a lot to do > already. Sure, those security fixes will be produced for RHEL5 in any > case, but it that really worth the trouble building and testing them for > Fedora? The "we" who will have to do all the work for this is Chris Aillon, so maybe we should hear his input before making grand plans ? From ihok at hotmail.com Mon Jan 15 04:04:35 2007 From: ihok at hotmail.com (Jack Tanner) Date: Sun, 14 Jan 2007 23:04:35 -0500 Subject: Updated Firefox 3 Roadmap In-Reply-To: <45AA87E2.4030501@leemhuis.info> References: <45AA7FD1.3060809@gmx.de> <45AA87E2.4030501@leemhuis.info> Message-ID: Thorsten Leemhuis wrote: > At least FC6 will then be at the middle of it's lifespan then and sill > have round about 7 months to live. Do we really want to backport > security fixes during all that time? I thought we have a lot to do > already. Sure, those security fixes will be produced for RHEL5 in any > case, but it that really worth the trouble building and testing them for > Fedora? This is an off-topic question, but perhaps someone wise to the way of RHEL can answer it concisely and enlighten the curious masses (i.e., me): RHEL 5 isn't even out yet. Why did RedHat decide to ship it with Firefox 1.5 and not Firefox 2? From skvidal at linux.duke.edu Mon Jan 15 04:28:20 2007 From: skvidal at linux.duke.edu (seth vidal) Date: Sun, 14 Jan 2007 23:28:20 -0500 Subject: Updated Firefox 3 Roadmap In-Reply-To: References: <45AA7FD1.3060809@gmx.de> <45AA87E2.4030501@leemhuis.info> Message-ID: <1168835300.21489.22.camel@cutter> On Sun, 2007-01-14 at 23:04 -0500, Jack Tanner wrote: > Thorsten Leemhuis wrote: > > At least FC6 will then be at the middle of it's lifespan then and sill > > have round about 7 months to live. Do we really want to backport > > security fixes during all that time? I thought we have a lot to do > > already. Sure, those security fixes will be produced for RHEL5 in any > > case, but it that really worth the trouble building and testing them for > > Fedora? > > This is an off-topic question, but perhaps someone wise to the way of > RHEL can answer it concisely and enlighten the curious masses (i.e., > me): RHEL 5 isn't even out yet. Why did RedHat decide to ship it with > Firefox 1.5 and not Firefox 2? There are mailing lists for rhel-discussion. This isn't it. -sv From pekkas at netcore.fi Mon Jan 15 04:39:27 2007 From: pekkas at netcore.fi (Pekka Savola) Date: Mon, 15 Jan 2007 06:39:27 +0200 (EET) Subject: 2.6.19.2 IPv6 ND broken because ff02::1 not joined In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: On Sat, 13 Jan 2007, Pekka Savola wrote: > FC6 updates-testing kernel based on 2.6.19.2 (kernel-2.6.19-1.2895.fc6) seems > to have a broken IPv6 stateless address autoconf. The previous, successfully > tested version was based on 2.6.18.5 (kernel-2.6.18-1.2860.fc6). > > The problem appears to be that the host is not joining the all-nodes > multicast address (ff02::1) [netstat -g -n], so the IP layer isn't processing > the received router advertisements even though you can see them with tcpdump. > The solicited node mcast address is joined though. Loopback interface doesn't > join ff02::1 either. > > linux-2.6-xen.patch at least seems to be making some modifications to IPv6 ND > code, but I didn't look closely enough if that's the culprit. > > If it matters, the network adapter is Realtek 8139. Two more bits of information: - one person commented off-list that for him, breakage happened between 2.6.19.1 and 2.6.19.2. - kernel-2.6.20rc4-git4 [latest from devel kernel-2.6.19-1.2911] is also similarly affected. -- Pekka Savola "You each name yourselves king, yet the Netcore Oy kingdom bleeds." Systems. Networks. Security. -- George R.R. Martin: A Clash of Kings From fedora at leemhuis.info Mon Jan 15 06:07:03 2007 From: fedora at leemhuis.info (Thorsten Leemhuis) Date: Mon, 15 Jan 2007 07:07:03 +0100 Subject: Updated Firefox 3 Roadmap In-Reply-To: <1168828538.31678.5.camel@localhost.localdomain> References: <45AA7FD1.3060809@gmx.de> <45AA87E2.4030501@leemhuis.info> <1168828538.31678.5.camel@localhost.localdomain> Message-ID: <45AB1A07.2050903@leemhuis.info> On 15.01.2007 03:35, Matthias Clasen wrote: > On Sun, 2007-01-14 at 20:43 +0100, Thorsten Leemhuis wrote: >> Heiko Adams schrieb: >>> maybe you've noticed that the mozilla foundation has updates the >>> planings and the roadmap for firefox 3. >>> The most interesting fact is, that the release is scheduled at the third >>> quater 2007. [...] >> The most important fact IMHO is: End-of-life for Firefox 1.5.x.y >> is April 2007 according to >> http://wiki.mozilla.org/ReleaseRoadmap >> At least FC6 will then be at the middle of it's lifespan then and sill >> have round about 7 months to live. Do we really want to backport >> security fixes during all that time? I thought we have a lot to do >> already. Sure, those security fixes will be produced for RHEL5 in any >> case, but it that really worth the trouble building and testing them for >> Fedora? > The "we" who will have to do all the work for this is Chris Aillon, so > maybe we should hear his input before making grand plans ? I didn't propose any plans, I even did not make any suggestion of solutions I'd prefer. I just brought a detail up that's IMHO quite important for the discussion. And I as you Matthias hope that Chris will participate in the discussion (I know, he's quite busy); but that does not mean we have to wait for Chris to show up until the discussion can continue. :-) Further: If we get the community more involved (and that's one of the reasons behind the Core and Extras merge afaics) then maybe the community can take over some of the maintain jobs that Chris has to give him more free time for other, more important things. But I suppose nearly nobody from the community would be willing or able to backport security fixes from FF20 to FF15 (this is partly a moot point, as the merge is mainly for F7 and later afaik; but we could move firefox to Extras 5 or 6 if we really want). CU thl From fedora at camperquake.de Mon Jan 15 07:36:15 2007 From: fedora at camperquake.de (Ralf Ertzinger) Date: Mon, 15 Jan 2007 08:36:15 +0100 Subject: Build rescue image for USB sticks Message-ID: <20070115083615.1274d0ab@banea.int.addix.net> Hi. How much work would be involved to create a rescue image that could be written to an USB flash drive (like the one in os/images/diskboot.img), so that a complete rescue system could be booted from the stick, without need for network access? USB media are pretty cheap these days :) From nicolas.mailhot at laposte.net Mon Jan 15 07:54:48 2007 From: nicolas.mailhot at laposte.net (Nicolas Mailhot) Date: Mon, 15 Jan 2007 08:54:48 +0100 (CET) Subject: yum roll back option? In-Reply-To: <200701141825.35884.lists@sapience.com> References: <000001c736e0$0ebd9c30$020aa8c0@a18> <200701141225.35519.lists@sapience.com> <1168797627.5622.4.camel@rousalka.dyndns.org> <200701141825.35884.lists@sapience.com> Message-ID: <24288.192.54.193.51.1168847688.squirrel@rousalka.dyndns.org> Le Lun 15 janvier 2007 00:25, Mail List a ?crit : > On Sunday 14 January 2007 13:00, Nicolas Mailhot wrote: >> >> But then the *package* itself does not know this state. The system does. > > I'm sure I'm missing something - but if a package install changes a > file - > sat /etc/foo and saves the old in /etc/foo.rpmold Since .rpmnew/.rpmsave files are generated at rpm not packager scriplets level today, I'll take that as a +1 -- Nicolas Mailhot From buildsys at redhat.com Mon Jan 15 11:11:23 2007 From: buildsys at redhat.com (buildsys at redhat.com) Date: Mon, 15 Jan 2007 06:11:23 -0500 Subject: rawhide report: 20070115 changes Message-ID: <200701151111.l0FBBNnW012064@hs20-bc2-6.build.redhat.com> Updated Packages: autofs-1:5.0.1-0.rc3.7 ---------------------- * Mon Jan 15 2007 Ian Kent - 5.0.1-0.rc3.7 - ignore "winbind" if it appears in "automount" nsswitch.conf (bz 214632). glib2-2.12.8-1.fc7 ------------------ * Mon Jan 15 2007 Matthias Clasen - 2.12.8-1 - Update to 2.12.8 kernel-2.6.19-1.2912.fc7 ------------------------ * Sun Jan 14 2007 Roland McGrath - utrace update: PTRACE_TRACEME fix libgtop2-2.14.6-1.fc7 --------------------- * Sun Jan 14 2007 Matthias Clasen - 2.14.6-1 - Update to 2.14.6 shadow-utils-2:4.0.18.1-9.fc7 ----------------------------- * Sun Jan 14 2007 Peter Vrabec 2:4.0.18.1-9 - fix append option in usermod (#222540). squid-7:2.6.STABLE7-1.fc7 ------------------------- * Sun Jan 14 2007 Martin Stransky - 7:2.6.STABLE7-1 - update to the latest upstream Broken deps for s390 ---------------------------------------------------------- systemtap - 0.5.10-1.fc7.s390 requires kernel >= 0:2.6.9-11 systemtap-runtime - 0.5.10-1.fc7.s390 requires kernel >= 0:2.6.9-11 From buc at odusz.so-cdu.ru Mon Jan 15 13:27:23 2007 From: buc at odusz.so-cdu.ru (Dmitry Butskoy) Date: Mon, 15 Jan 2007 16:27:23 +0300 Subject: Build rescue image for USB sticks In-Reply-To: <20070115083615.1274d0ab@banea.int.addix.net> References: <20070115083615.1274d0ab@banea.int.addix.net> Message-ID: <45AB813B.7060804@odu.neva.ru> Ralf Ertzinger wrote: >Hi. > >How much work would be involved to create a rescue image that could be >written to an USB flash drive (like the one in os/images/diskboot.img), >so that a complete rescue system could be booted from the stick, without >need for network access? > > No more than (perhaps) some rescue image preparation + using of "makebootfat" utility (from Extras) to create an universal image for different type of bootable USB flashes. See some additional info at http://bugzilla.redhat.com/bugzilla/174186 Regards, Dmitry Butskoy From laroche at redhat.com Mon Jan 15 14:13:53 2007 From: laroche at redhat.com (Florian La Roche) Date: Mon, 15 Jan 2007 15:13:53 +0100 Subject: diskdumputils / netdump Message-ID: <20070115141353.GA9675@dudweiler.stuttgart.redhat.com> Hello Jesse, please remove diskdumputils and netdump from the FC-development tree. Both rpm packages are obsoleted by the current kexec-tools. Thanks, Florian La Roche From jkeating at redhat.com Mon Jan 15 15:04:34 2007 From: jkeating at redhat.com (Jesse Keating) Date: Mon, 15 Jan 2007 10:04:34 -0500 Subject: diskdumputils / netdump In-Reply-To: <20070115141353.GA9675@dudweiler.stuttgart.redhat.com> References: <20070115141353.GA9675@dudweiler.stuttgart.redhat.com> Message-ID: <200701151004.37645.jkeating@redhat.com> On Monday 15 January 2007 09:13, Florian La Roche wrote: > Hello Jesse, > > please remove diskdumputils and netdump from the > FC-development tree. Both rpm packages are obsoleted > by the current kexec-tools. These have been blocked. -- Jesse Keating Release Engineer: Fedora -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 189 bytes Desc: not available URL: From admin at zapped.2y.net Mon Jan 15 15:06:16 2007 From: admin at zapped.2y.net (Erik van Pienbroek) Date: Mon, 15 Jan 2007 16:06:16 +0100 Subject: FC6 on a HP DC7700 In-Reply-To: <45A768E3.9000305@crc.dk> References: <1168598605.18585.12.camel@alguno> <45A768E3.9000305@crc.dk> Message-ID: <1168873576.14409.17.camel@localhost.localdomain> Op vrijdag 12-01-2007 om 11:54 uur [tijdzone +0100], schreef Mogens Kjaer: > Erik van Pienbroek wrote: > ... > > After booting the computer with the kernel boot option 'acpi=off' > > we succeed to start anaconda. However, the I/O with the hard drive > > (for example formatting) was very slow. > > I have set SATA emulation to IDE, and boot with > > acpi=off hda=noprobe hdc=noprobe > > then the IO speed is OK: Hi, I just tested out your tip and this works great with FC6! Regards, Erik van Pienbroek From vonbrand at inf.utfsm.cl Mon Jan 15 17:11:11 2007 From: vonbrand at inf.utfsm.cl (Horst H. von Brand) Date: Mon, 15 Jan 2007 14:11:11 -0300 Subject: Build rescue image for USB sticks In-Reply-To: <45AB813B.7060804@odu.neva.ru> References: <20070115083615.1274d0ab@banea.int.addix.net> <45AB813B.7060804@odu.neva.ru> Message-ID: <200701151711.l0FHBBHf015446@laptop13.inf.utfsm.cl> Dmitry Butskoy wrote: > Ralf Ertzinger wrote: > >How much work would be involved to create a rescue image that could be > >written to an USB flash drive (like the one in os/images/diskboot.img), > >so that a complete rescue system could be booted from the stick, without > >need for network access? > No more than (perhaps) some rescue image preparation + using of > "makebootfat" utility (from Extras) to create an universal image for > different type of bootable USB flashes. Shouldn't this be a job for the LiveCD project at ? -- Dr. Horst H. von Brand User #22616 counter.li.org Departamento de Informatica Fono: +56 32 2654431 Universidad Tecnica Federico Santa Maria +56 32 2654239 Casilla 110-V, Valparaiso, Chile Fax: +56 32 2797513 From n0dalus+redhat at gmail.com Mon Jan 15 17:15:30 2007 From: n0dalus+redhat at gmail.com (n0dalus) Date: Tue, 16 Jan 2007 03:45:30 +1030 Subject: yum roll back option? In-Reply-To: <1168721462.4155.17.camel@rousalka.dyndns.org> References: <000001c736e0$0ebd9c30$020aa8c0@a18> <604aa7910701130043s3397b602ie74af32be8771604@mail.gmail.com> <200701131248.09289.lists@sapience.com> <1168721462.4155.17.camel@rousalka.dyndns.org> Message-ID: <6280325c0701150915j3acdf084j7cde56606653252f@mail.gmail.com> On 1/14/07, Nicolas Mailhot wrote: > Le samedi 13 janvier 2007 ? 12:48 -0500, Mail List a ?crit : > > In principal the package could provide and uninstall script which would > > reverse the scripts. THis is of course an additional burdon on the > > maintainer - and well may be a better thing to target enterprise and have > > customer cover the cost. > > This would be very hard to do. On post install you know the target state > of the system, but how are you supposed to guess what are you roll > backing to ? > RPM could provide a mechanism for storing various types of data and macros for common changes (eg changes of file attributes), so that when the install scripts run, any changes they make can be stored somewhere by rpm. Then, when the scripts run to undo the install script, this data can be used to put things back the way they were previously (provided they haven't been modified since the install script ran, which might mean you get .rpmrollback files instead). The majority of install scripts (eg lots of update-index-x and ldconfig) could even be replaced by inbuilt macros designed to support rollbacks. For other packages that do more specialized things in scripts, the storage mechanism and extra scripts would be required. If the support was there in rpm and there was consensus that this is a good feature to put in Fedora, then we could begin by loosely requiring (unless it is technically not feasible or at all practical) that new packages support rollback. RPM could detect if a package supports rollbacks by either the presence of rollback scripts or if the package uses no scripts or only the new rollback safe macros (we could make macros like %ldconfig etc) in scripts. There are also other advantages to having macros like %ldconfig made in that rpm can use this to optimize updates/installs by only running ldconfig at the very end, or before any dependent packages are updated/installed. Not all the packages would need to be rollback safe for the system to work nicely. If you wanted to rollback some particular update/install, as long as all the packages involved in that update/install were rollback safe there would be no issues with performing a rollback. Eventually more and more packages (and hopefully any important system ones) would support rollback. If the user asks rpm to rollback an update/install that involved a non-'rollback safe' package, rpm could either; warn the user and ask if it should continue, or just fail with an error message about the package not supporting rollbacks. Here is some quick stats from this box: - Number of packages installed: 1576 - Number of packages containing some kind of rpm script: 731 - Number of packages containing scripts without completely obvious methods of rolling back*: 192 Essentially this means that all but 192 of the rpms installed on my machine could have their rpm scripts replaced with macros made to do the same thing, or involve operations that could be marked (like %rollback_safe('cmd')) as not needing any rollback. Of these 192, I don't think there are very many that couldn't be made rollback safe with small bit of work. n0dalus. * I did this by quick visual inspection of the scripts in each package after dumping them to a big file. I removed any scripts which; only added users, updated some cache (eg gtk-update-icon-cache), setup a trigger for prelink, removed .pyc files, created font indexes or updated info pages, ran ldconfig, chkconfig/service or other init.d scripts. From dlutter at redhat.com Mon Jan 15 18:12:34 2007 From: dlutter at redhat.com (David Lutterkort) Date: Mon, 15 Jan 2007 18:12:34 +0000 Subject: Fedora Server Spin In-Reply-To: <1168733503.4616.18.camel@localhost> References: <1168558399.21083.42.camel@localhost.localdomain> <1168611190.2834.19.camel@localhost.localdomain> <1168616065.11006.18.camel@cutter> <1168616151.6132.44.camel@localhost> <20070112155251.8E0EA6F06E@alopias.GreenKey.net> <1168617710.11006.21.camel@cutter> <1168626729.21083.100.camel@localhost.localdomain> <1168733503.4616.18.camel@localhost> Message-ID: <1168884754.21083.181.camel@localhost.localdomain> On Sun, 2007-01-14 at 00:11 +0000, Rui Miguel Silva Seabra wrote: > I can provide you with one such kickstart (minus ip addresses and some > portions of the post-install scripts) if you want, and there's still > some work to do post-boot that I've been too lazy (in the bad sense) to > find a generic form to include in the kickstart template. I'd absolutely love seeing any and all kickstarts that you feel comfortable sharing; feel free to email them to me directly. David From fedora at camperquake.de Mon Jan 15 18:16:10 2007 From: fedora at camperquake.de (Ralf Ertzinger) Date: Mon, 15 Jan 2007 19:16:10 +0100 Subject: Build rescue image for USB sticks In-Reply-To: <200701151711.l0FHBBHf015446@laptop13.inf.utfsm.cl> References: <20070115083615.1274d0ab@banea.int.addix.net> <45AB813B.7060804@odu.neva.ru> <200701151711.l0FHBBHf015446@laptop13.inf.utfsm.cl> Message-ID: <45ABC4EA.30502@camperquake.de> Hi. Horst H. von Brand schrieb: > Shouldn't this be a job for the LiveCD project at > ? I do not know how much there is to be done, the content is all there (as rescue.iso), it just has to be put into a different container by the buildsystem. From ajackson at redhat.com Mon Jan 15 19:28:04 2007 From: ajackson at redhat.com (Adam Jackson) Date: Mon, 15 Jan 2007 14:28:04 -0500 Subject: Fedora Server Spin In-Reply-To: <1168626729.21083.100.camel@localhost.localdomain> References: <1168558399.21083.42.camel@localhost.localdomain> <1168611190.2834.19.camel@localhost.localdomain> <1168616065.11006.18.camel@cutter> <1168616151.6132.44.camel@localhost> <20070112155251.8E0EA6F06E@alopias.GreenKey.net> <1168617710.11006.21.camel@cutter> <1168626729.21083.100.camel@localhost.localdomain> Message-ID: <1168889284.3900.8.camel@localhost.localdomain> On Fri, 2007-01-12 at 18:32 +0000, David Lutterkort wrote: > On Fri, 2007-01-12 at 11:01 -0500, seth vidal wrote: > > okay - a convincing argument was made to me for some amount of items for > > i18n. So non-western-language-speaking folks can use the server install. > > Just to be clear: 'some amount of items for i18n' means X, right ? This > is fine for interactive installs, as long as we don't unnecessarily > require X (especially server and drivers) for kickstarts and text-mode > installs. benzedrine:~% for i in Xorg Xserver Xnest Xvfb Xdmx Xephyr ; do for> echo $i: for> repoquery --whatrequires $i for> done Xorg: Xserver: Xnest: Xvfb: Xdmx: Xephyr: benzedrine:~% This on FC6-ish. So basically, _no_ package requires an X server. - ajax From ajackson at redhat.com Mon Jan 15 19:29:52 2007 From: ajackson at redhat.com (Adam Jackson) Date: Mon, 15 Jan 2007 14:29:52 -0500 Subject: Broken gnome-session 2.17.5 ? (Re: rawhide report: 20070112 changes) In-Reply-To: <1168705388.22629.7.camel@boss.zie.pg.gda.pl> References: <200701121143.l0CBhaII001534@hs20-bc2-6.build.redhat.com> <1168705388.22629.7.camel@boss.zie.pg.gda.pl> Message-ID: <1168889392.3900.11.camel@localhost.localdomain> On Sat, 2007-01-13 at 17:23 +0100, Tomasz K?oczko wrote: > Dnia 12-01-2007, pi? o godzinie 06:43 -0500, buildsys at redhat.com > napisa?(a): > > gnome-session-2.17.5-1.fc7 > > -------------------------- > > * Wed Jan 10 2007 Matthias Clasen - 2.17.5-1 > > - Update to 2.17.5 > > Seems after today upgrade to this version gnome-session during login to > new X session gnome-session fails very badly. Conntent of > ~/.xsession-errors in attachment. > > BTW: > In second line attached file is incliuded line: > > Xlib: extension "XEVIE" missing on display ":0.0". > > What the hell is XEVIE X extension and for what it is neccessary in this > case ? :) It's an extension occasionally used for accessibility-type things and compositing-manager-type things. Missing it shouldn't usually be fatal. - ajax From jspaleta at gmail.com Mon Jan 15 20:51:38 2007 From: jspaleta at gmail.com (Jeff Spaleta) Date: Mon, 15 Jan 2007 11:51:38 -0900 Subject: yum roll back option? In-Reply-To: <6280325c0701150915j3acdf084j7cde56606653252f@mail.gmail.com> References: <000001c736e0$0ebd9c30$020aa8c0@a18> <604aa7910701130043s3397b602ie74af32be8771604@mail.gmail.com> <200701131248.09289.lists@sapience.com> <1168721462.4155.17.camel@rousalka.dyndns.org> <6280325c0701150915j3acdf084j7cde56606653252f@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <604aa7910701151251o75f700d3udf2764df36844c50@mail.gmail.com> On 1/15/07, n0dalus wrote: > RPM could provide a mechanism for storing various types of data and > macros for common changes (eg changes of file attributes), so that > when the install scripts run, any changes they make can be stored > somewhere by rpm. do you account for multiple packages, making changes to the same file? So far I see assumptions being made about simple one-to-one mapping of packages to file changes. But if foo and bar both edit a file as part of scriptlet action, what happens if you rollback bar but not foo or foo and not bar? Simple diffs of file state at package install time are not necessarily adequate, unless you can garuntee that scriplets from multiple packages do not re-edit files. Can we be so sure of that? -jef"I know! How about we just have rpm make an rdiff-backup snapshot of the full system state with each package installation"spaleta From nicolas.mailhot at laposte.net Mon Jan 15 21:20:47 2007 From: nicolas.mailhot at laposte.net (Nicolas Mailhot) Date: Mon, 15 Jan 2007 22:20:47 +0100 Subject: yum roll back option? In-Reply-To: <604aa7910701151251o75f700d3udf2764df36844c50@mail.gmail.com> References: <000001c736e0$0ebd9c30$020aa8c0@a18> <604aa7910701130043s3397b602ie74af32be8771604@mail.gmail.com> <200701131248.09289.lists@sapience.com> <1168721462.4155.17.camel@rousalka.dyndns.org> <6280325c0701150915j3acdf084j7cde56606653252f@mail.gmail.com> <604aa7910701151251o75f700d3udf2764df36844c50@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <1168896047.4218.58.camel@rousalka.dyndns.org> Le lundi 15 janvier 2007 ? 11:51 -0900, Jeff Spaleta a ?crit : > On 1/15/07, n0dalus wrote: > > RPM could provide a mechanism for storing various types of data and > > macros for common changes (eg changes of file attributes), so that > > when the install scripts run, any changes they make can be stored > > somewhere by rpm. > > do you account for multiple packages, making changes to the same file? > So far I see assumptions being made about simple one-to-one mapping > of packages to file changes. ? > Simple > diffs of file state at package install time are not necessarily > adequate, You're assuming all changed files are text files here > unless you can garuntee that scriplets from multiple > packages do not re-edit files. Can we be so sure of that? The simple stupid robust answer is: ? don't assume anything, snapshot all changed files ? only allow full-transaction rollbacks ? when a rollback is requested, also rollback all the packages that touched the snapshoted files since You can get by without all this most of the times, but then Murphy says the day you need the rollback you'll have one of the corner cases shotcuts don't handle -- Nicolas Mailhot -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: signature.asc Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 197 bytes Desc: Ceci est une partie de message num?riquement sign?e URL: From jspaleta at gmail.com Mon Jan 15 21:47:46 2007 From: jspaleta at gmail.com (Jeff Spaleta) Date: Mon, 15 Jan 2007 12:47:46 -0900 Subject: yum roll back option? In-Reply-To: <1168896047.4218.58.camel@rousalka.dyndns.org> References: <000001c736e0$0ebd9c30$020aa8c0@a18> <604aa7910701130043s3397b602ie74af32be8771604@mail.gmail.com> <200701131248.09289.lists@sapience.com> <1168721462.4155.17.camel@rousalka.dyndns.org> <6280325c0701150915j3acdf084j7cde56606653252f@mail.gmail.com> <604aa7910701151251o75f700d3udf2764df36844c50@mail.gmail.com> <1168896047.4218.58.camel@rousalka.dyndns.org> Message-ID: <604aa7910701151347y282f2d8bp342c8ad48d8409a3@mail.gmail.com> On 1/15/07, Nicolas Mailhot wrote: > The simple stupid robust answer is: > ? don't assume anything, snapshot all changed files > ? only allow full-transaction rollbacks > ? when a rollback is requested, also rollback all the packages that > touched the snapshoted files since Did you read my sig? Sounds just like an rdiff-backup of the system to me. -jef From nicolas.mailhot at laposte.net Mon Jan 15 22:21:36 2007 From: nicolas.mailhot at laposte.net (Nicolas Mailhot) Date: Mon, 15 Jan 2007 23:21:36 +0100 Subject: yum roll back option? In-Reply-To: <604aa7910701151347y282f2d8bp342c8ad48d8409a3@mail.gmail.com> References: <000001c736e0$0ebd9c30$020aa8c0@a18> <604aa7910701130043s3397b602ie74af32be8771604@mail.gmail.com> <200701131248.09289.lists@sapience.com> <1168721462.4155.17.camel@rousalka.dyndns.org> <6280325c0701150915j3acdf084j7cde56606653252f@mail.gmail.com> <604aa7910701151251o75f700d3udf2764df36844c50@mail.gmail.com> <1168896047.4218.58.camel@rousalka.dyndns.org> <604aa7910701151347y282f2d8bp342c8ad48d8409a3@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <1168899696.4218.59.camel@rousalka.dyndns.org> Le lundi 15 janvier 2007 ? 12:47 -0900, Jeff Spaleta a ?crit : > On 1/15/07, Nicolas Mailhot wrote: > > The simple stupid robust answer is: > > ? don't assume anything, snapshot all changed files > > ? only allow full-transaction rollbacks > > ? when a rollback is requested, also rollback all the packages that > > touched the snapshoted files since > > Did you read my sig? Sounds just like an rdiff-backup of the system to me. With some rpm plumbing to associate packages to backups, sure -- Nicolas Mailhot -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: signature.asc Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 197 bytes Desc: Ceci est une partie de message num?riquement sign?e URL: From vonbrand at inf.utfsm.cl Tue Jan 16 00:05:03 2007 From: vonbrand at inf.utfsm.cl (Horst H. von Brand) Date: Mon, 15 Jan 2007 21:05:03 -0300 Subject: yum roll back option? In-Reply-To: <1168896047.4218.58.camel@rousalka.dyndns.org> References: <000001c736e0$0ebd9c30$020aa8c0@a18> <604aa7910701130043s3397b602ie74af32be8771604@mail.gmail.com> <200701131248.09289.lists@sapience.com> <1168721462.4155.17.camel@rousalka.dyndns.org> <6280325c0701150915j3acdf084j7cde56606653252f@mail.gmail.com> <604aa7910701151251o75f700d3udf2764df36844c50@mail.gmail.com> <1168896047.4218.58.camel@rousalka.dyndns.org> Message-ID: <200701160005.l0G053C8004137@laptop13.inf.utfsm.cl> Nicolas Mailhot wrote: > Le lundi 15 janvier 2007 ?? 11:51 -0900, Jeff Spaleta a ??crit : [...] > > unless you can garuntee that scriplets from multiple > > packages do not re-edit files. Can we be so sure of that? > The simple stupid robust answer is: > ??? don't assume anything, snapshot all changed files OK. > ??? only allow full-transaction rollbacks Define "full transaction"... > ??? when a rollback is requested, also rollback all the packages that > touched the snapshoted files since Great idea. One package breaks, get it fixed (by its latest version) and get back all breakage fixed by the last round of updates. > You can get by without all this most of the times, but then Murphy says > the day you need the rollback you'll have one of the corner cases > shotcuts don't handle Exactly. -- Dr. Horst H. von Brand User #22616 counter.li.org Departamento de Informatica Fono: +56 32 2654431 Universidad Tecnica Federico Santa Maria +56 32 2654239 Casilla 110-V, Valparaiso, Chile Fax: +56 32 2797513 From n0dalus+redhat at gmail.com Tue Jan 16 01:30:23 2007 From: n0dalus+redhat at gmail.com (n0dalus) Date: Tue, 16 Jan 2007 12:00:23 +1030 Subject: yum roll back option? In-Reply-To: <604aa7910701151251o75f700d3udf2764df36844c50@mail.gmail.com> References: <000001c736e0$0ebd9c30$020aa8c0@a18> <604aa7910701130043s3397b602ie74af32be8771604@mail.gmail.com> <200701131248.09289.lists@sapience.com> <1168721462.4155.17.camel@rousalka.dyndns.org> <6280325c0701150915j3acdf084j7cde56606653252f@mail.gmail.com> <604aa7910701151251o75f700d3udf2764df36844c50@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <6280325c0701151730w791ce4f4h28a479158ceec857@mail.gmail.com> On 1/16/07, Jeff Spaleta wrote: > On 1/15/07, n0dalus wrote: > > RPM could provide a mechanism for storing various types of data and > > macros for common changes (eg changes of file attributes), so that > > when the install scripts run, any changes they make can be stored > > somewhere by rpm. > > do you account for multiple packages, making changes to the same file? > So far I see assumptions being made about simple one-to-one mapping > of packages to file changes. > But if foo and bar both edit a file as part of scriptlet action, what > happens if you rollback bar but not foo or foo and not bar? Simple > diffs of file state at package install time are not necessarily > adequate, unless you can garuntee that scriplets from multiple > packages do not re-edit files. Can we be so sure of that? > If you had read the rest of that paragraph, you would have noticed I said "...provided they haven't been modified since the install script ran, which might mean you get .rpmrollback files instead." In other words, after the install scripts run, they need to save whatever data (sha1sum, etc) needed so that the rollback script can check to see if the data has been changed since. If it has been changed, it can either perform the rollback but make .rpmrollback files, or just abort. There is always going to a few packages with complex rpm scripts that won't ever be rollback safe. I'm sure you could ponder my assumptions and come up with several rpms that break them, but luckily it doesn't really matter. The vast majority of packages (look at my numbers in my previous post) could easily be made safe for rolling back, and a rollback system would still be useful for rolling back any of these packages. As I looked through the rpm scripts, I found they could be split into a few main categories (ordered more or less by frequency): 1) Updating a cache or index. This is rollback safe, the cache/index updater just needs to be run after rollback. 2) Installing info pages. It would be nice if these could be installed without any scripts, as with man pages, but either way it is fairly easy to rollback. 3) Changing chkconfig stuff and restarting/stopping services after/before updates/removals. If Fedora ever changes to a new init system, the former may be possible to do by just installing files into the right directories. Anyway, this is also rollback safe. 4) Adding users and groups. Rollback safe. 5) Setting up directories and permissions. I have no idea why this is being done in scripts instead of just in the package. They probably need to be decided on a case by case basis as to what to do on rollback (eg, keep the directory, or remove it including any contents). 6) Other things, long scripts which convert database formats and things like that. Some of these might not be rollback safe. n0dalus. From naoki at valuecommerce.com Tue Jan 16 03:52:15 2007 From: naoki at valuecommerce.com (Naoki) Date: Tue, 16 Jan 2007 12:52:15 +0900 Subject: Fedora 7 - USB Install method - Everything ISO. In-Reply-To: <459E6C2E.7000701@leemhuis.info> References: <20070104195032.GE4693@nostromo.devel.redhat.com> <459E20D7.9020307@gmail.com> <200701050820.28298.jkeating@redhat.com> <459E5DA4.6080107@gmail.com> <20070105150153.GA13767@jadzia.bu.edu> <459E6C2E.7000701@leemhuis.info> Message-ID: <1168919535.12047.484.camel@dragon.valuecommerce.ne.jp> DVDs are a pain, they are cumbersome and too small to fit a full OS necessitating the separate Desktop/Server/KDE spins that are currently garnering so much attention. Fedora Core started supporting installation from a USB device with core 6, which is excellent. Although the procedure as documented ( http://fedora.redhat.com/docs/install-guide/fc6/en/sn-preparing-usb-media.html ) states you need to download and 'burn' the diskboot image with dd to the device. But doesn't seem to explain much after that, do you use HDD install from that device? Considering for ~$100 you can get an 8GB USB flash or 20G HDD storage device, and USB ports have appeared on every computer since about the same time as DVD came out (USB 1.0 spec released in January 1996) it's now considerably cheaper and more practical than the combination of a DVD burner on a network attached machine, DVD-ROM drives on all the client machines, and DVD media. So would it not make sense to have an "everything" ISO for use on removable USB devices? From notting at redhat.com Tue Jan 16 04:24:59 2007 From: notting at redhat.com (Bill Nottingham) Date: Mon, 15 Jan 2007 23:24:59 -0500 Subject: Fedora 7 - USB Install method - Everything ISO. In-Reply-To: <1168919535.12047.484.camel@dragon.valuecommerce.ne.jp> References: <20070104195032.GE4693@nostromo.devel.redhat.com> <459E20D7.9020307@gmail.com> <200701050820.28298.jkeating@redhat.com> <459E5DA4.6080107@gmail.com> <20070105150153.GA13767@jadzia.bu.edu> <459E6C2E.7000701@leemhuis.info> <1168919535.12047.484.camel@dragon.valuecommerce.ne.jp> Message-ID: <20070116042459.GA22128@nostromo.devel.redhat.com> Naoki (naoki at valuecommerce.com) said: > DVDs are a pain, they are cumbersome and too small to fit a full OS ... then perhaps that the OS is so big is the problem. :) More seriously... > So would it not make sense to have an "everything" ISO for use on > removable USB devices? *Shrug*. Wouldn't really make sense for it to be an ISO, from a raw FS standpoint. You could have a torrent that just makes a directory, even. Bill From jwilliam at xmission.com Tue Jan 16 04:58:32 2007 From: jwilliam at xmission.com (Jerry Williams) Date: Mon, 15 Jan 2007 21:58:32 -0700 Subject: Smarter install - Headless Message-ID: <000001c7392a$f87ed5e0$020aa8c0@a18> I have noticed that when you boot from the DVD that if you don't do anything it acts like you hit enter. How hard would it be to change that to do the following. Check to see if the system has a keyboard. If not look for a floppy with ks.cfg on it. If it finds it act like the user typed: linux ks=floppy If no floppy, look for usb device and do the same. Linux ks=usb/ks.cfg kind of thing. If no usb start network with dhcp and look for Web server linux ks=http://fedora7./ks.cfg Or maybe linux ks=http://fedora7./.cfg If no web server then run: Linux vnc vncpassword=Fedora7 If it has a keyboard just do the normal thing. This would make it so you don't really have to change the dhcp server. Maybe add an alias for a web server. Then the install would happen and when completed would eject DVD. Take out the DVD and power cycle the box and be done. From bernie at develer.com Tue Jan 16 05:03:51 2007 From: bernie at develer.com (Bernardo Innocenti) Date: Tue, 16 Jan 2007 06:03:51 +0100 Subject: proposal: mailing list reorganization In-Reply-To: <16de708d0701140008y32cfd6c1k45dd90acdbb0216b@mail.gmail.com> References: <45A52F85.5020408@leemhuis.info> <45A70101.70608@develer.com> <200701112239.21724.jkeating@redhat.com> <45A9BE98.9000303@develer.com> <16de708d0701140008y32cfd6c1k45dd90acdbb0216b@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <45AC5CB7.5010205@develer.com> Arthur Pemberton wrote: >> Just grep the gcc list archives for the word "gcc-help". > > Maybe an introductory email (with rules) be sent upon subscription to > a list, and standard responses to the type of unwanted message you > described be developed, so that those familiar to the list can just > copy and paste as a response. Yes. And I also like this trick: http://www.arm.linux.org.uk/mailinglists/ you won't find the posting address until you've at least *seen* the etiquette. -- // Bernardo Innocenti - Develer S.r.l., R&D dept. \X/ http://www.develer.com/ From tmus at tmus.dk Tue Jan 16 06:04:43 2007 From: tmus at tmus.dk (Thomas M Steenholdt) Date: Tue, 16 Jan 2007 07:04:43 +0100 Subject: plans for long term support releases? Message-ID: Now that Core and Extras are going to be merged and the distro is opening up to become even more (?) community driven, has anyone played with the though of eventually releasing a long term support version of Fedora? It could be a based on a staple snapshot of Fedora 7 + 4 months worth of updates or whatever, at this point I'm more interested in hearing about the idea than the details, which will surely follow, if i'm not the only one who think this could be a good idea. Especially now that we're going to do special server spins etc... Just a thought (hope this was not brought up ages ago and I just missed it) /Thomas From wtogami at redhat.com Tue Jan 16 06:25:37 2007 From: wtogami at redhat.com (Warren Togami) Date: Tue, 16 Jan 2007 01:25:37 -0500 Subject: plans for long term support releases? In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <45AC6FE1.2040704@redhat.com> Thomas M Steenholdt wrote: > Now that Core and Extras are going to be merged and the distro is > opening up to become even more (?) community driven, has anyone played > with the though of eventually releasing a long term support version of > Fedora? > > It could be a based on a staple snapshot of Fedora 7 + 4 months worth of > updates or whatever, at this point I'm more interested in hearing about > the idea than the details, which will surely follow, if i'm not the only > one who think this could be a good idea. Especially now that we're going > to do special server spins etc... > > Just a thought (hope this was not brought up ages ago and I just missed it) > > /Thomas > Note: Fedora Legacy began with this similar idea. At first Legacy did reasonably well, but as time passed contributor interest waned, making it unsustainable as a community project. This isn't to say that it wouldn't be possible for the community to declare one version of Fedora LTS and do a good job of it. But the precedent of history is against the likelihood of this succeeding. It is just too convenient for those users to use RHEL or CentOS. Security is a *HARD* and boring problem, requiring constant vigilance over long periods of time. This kind of project is difficult to sustain with volunteers. Nothing stops a community group from trying continue what Legacy began. Just do it and prove that it is sustainable. But I am not optimistic that it is possible. Warren Togami wtogami at redhat.com From sdl.web at gmail.com Tue Jan 16 07:15:23 2007 From: sdl.web at gmail.com (Leo) Date: Tue, 16 Jan 2007 07:15:23 +0000 Subject: Ruby and Rails packages (was: Fedora 7) References: <20070104195032.GE4693@nostromo.devel.redhat.com> Message-ID: On 2007-01-04, Bill Nottingham said: > - Modify the build system to support this new paradigm > - Merge Core and Extras in source control > - Use the new pungi tool to spin all releases > - A Fedora Desktop spin > - A Fedora Server spin > - A Fedora KDE spin > - Make LiveCDs as a part of the distribution release process > - Ability to customize non-packaging distrubution parameters > - Switch to libata drivers for PATA support > - Speedup of bootup and shutdown > - Make wireless rock-solid > - Add wireless firmware for all the chipsets we can > - CodecBuddy > - Fixing the proliferation of dictionary packages > - Support encrypted filesystems > - Fast user switching in the desktop > - Fix the firewire stack > - Switch to a tickless kernel by default > - Fix unnecessary wakeups across the distribution > - Add KVM virtualization support to our tools > - Investigate (but probably don't switch to) new init technologies > - Add the nouveau drivers for nVidia cards > - Speed up Yum and RPM > - Add support for RandR 1.2 > - Switch to syslog-ng > - Make the update system useable by all It will also be good to finalize the ruby and rails packing guidelines so that people can start packing things. -- Leo (GPG Key: 9283AA3F) From yanmin_zhang at linux.intel.com Tue Jan 16 08:57:07 2007 From: yanmin_zhang at linux.intel.com (Zhang, Yanmin) Date: Tue, 16 Jan 2007 16:57:07 +0800 Subject: [Fedora-ia64-list] Re: anaconda-runtime error In-Reply-To: <1168569442.15989.240.camel@ymzhang> References: <1168319262.15989.211.camel@ymzhang> <200701092228.17083.jkeating@redhat.com> <1168486169.15989.226.camel@ymzhang> <200701102235.09492.jkeating@redhat.com> <1168503879.15989.234.camel@ymzhang> <1168569442.15989.240.camel@ymzhang> Message-ID: <1168937827.15989.250.camel@ymzhang> On Fri, 2007-01-12 at 10:37 +0800, Zhang, Yanmin wrote: > On Thu, 2007-01-11 at 16:24 +0800, Zhang, Yanmin wrote: > > On Wed, 2007-01-10 at 22:34 -0500, Jesse Keating wrote: > > > On Wednesday 10 January 2007 22:29, Zhang, Yanmin wrote: > > > > Jesse, > > > > > > I applied below patch, the nash.so issue disappeared. > > New issues: > > 1) Install by nfs: hit the glibc double free issue; > > 2) Install by cdrom: it reported no drive to have the cd; > > 3) Install by hard disk: it listed all partitions, but mount always failed. > > > > Wait for the new packages. > I got the latest development tree, including anaconda-11.2.0.9-1, and rebuilt > DVD image. > > Update on the installation of the new image: > 1) Install by nfs: Exception:; > 2) Install by cdrom: Didn't test it; > 3) Install by hard disk: Still old issue. It listed all partitions, but mount always failed. > > More info will be posted to #219449. > > Yanmin > > ------log of nfs installation exception------ > Traceback (most recent call first): > File "/usr/lib/anaconda/textw/network_text.py", line 177, in runScreen > self.ipv4Cb = Checkbox(_("Enable IPv4 support"), net.useIPv4) > File "/usr/lib/anaconda/textw/network_text.py", line 449, in __call__ > showonboot) > File "/usr/lib/anaconda/text.py", line 514, in run > rc = win(self.screen, instance) > File "/usr/bin/anaconda", line 970, in > anaconda.intf.run(anaconda) > AttributeError: Network instance has no attribute 'useIPv4' The root cause is class Network in file network.py puts useIPv4/6 as per NetworkDevice attributes while class NetworkDeviceWindow still thinks useIPv4/6 are net attributes. From rc040203 at freenet.de Tue Jan 16 10:08:17 2007 From: rc040203 at freenet.de (Ralf Corsepius) Date: Tue, 16 Jan 2007 11:08:17 +0100 Subject: plans for long term support releases? In-Reply-To: <45AC6FE1.2040704@redhat.com> References: <45AC6FE1.2040704@redhat.com> Message-ID: <1168942098.16343.73.camel@mccallum.corsepiu.local> On Tue, 2007-01-16 at 01:25 -0500, Warren Togami wrote: > Thomas M Steenholdt wrote: > > Now that Core and Extras are going to be merged and the distro is > > opening up to become even more (?) community driven, has anyone played > > with the though of eventually releasing a long term support version of > > Fedora? > > > > It could be a based on a staple snapshot of Fedora 7 + 4 months worth of > > updates or whatever, at this point I'm more interested in hearing about > > the idea than the details, which will surely follow, if i'm not the only > > one who think this could be a good idea. Especially now that we're going > > to do special server spins etc... > > > > Just a thought (hope this was not brought up ages ago and I just missed it) > > > > /Thomas > > > > Note: Fedora Legacy began with this similar idea. As I tried to express many times before, to me, FL has always been a dead-born child which never actually came into real existance. > Nothing stops a community group from trying continue what Legacy began. > Just do it and prove that it is sustainable. But I am not optimistic > that it is possible. Well a solution within Fedora would be much simpler and easier: Keep Fedora open for longer terms and keep it open for community contributions - This approach (Extending ETA) had worked quite well for FE, but had not been possible for FC, due to management decisions. I.e. if a unified FC+FE project was kept open for an extended period and if it was possible for community contributors to collaborate and co-maintain RH-maintained packages, there should not be many (technical) reasons why an extended life time of Fedora releases should not work. Ralf From buildsys at redhat.com Tue Jan 16 10:34:59 2007 From: buildsys at redhat.com (buildsys at redhat.com) Date: Tue, 16 Jan 2007 05:34:59 -0500 Subject: rawhide report: 20070116 changes Message-ID: <200701161034.l0GAYxEQ020893@hs20-bc2-6.build.redhat.com> Removed package diskdumputils Removed package netdump Updated Packages: arpwatch-14:2.1a15-3.fc7 ------------------------ device-mapper-multipath-0.4.7-9.fc7 ----------------------------------- * Mon Jan 15 2007 Benjamin Marzinksi - 0.4.7-9.fc7 - Fixed spec file. * Mon Jan 15 2007 Benjamin Marzinski - 0.4.7-8.fc7 - Update to latest code (t0_4_7_head2) * Wed Dec 13 2006 Benjamin Marzinski - 0.4.7-7.fc7 - Update to latest code (t0_4_7_head1) gawk-3.1.5-14.fc7 ----------------- * Mon Jan 15 2007 Karel Zak 3.1.5-14 - sync with double-free upstream fixes - fix #222531: Replace dist by ?dist gdb-6.5-27.fc7 -------------- * Mon Jan 15 2007 Jan Kratochvil - 6.5-27 - Fix the testsuite results broken in 6.5-26, stop invalid testsuite runs. * Sat Jan 13 2007 Jan Kratochvil - 6.5-26 - Fix unwinding of non-debug (.eh_frame) PPC code, Andreas Schwab (BZ 140532). - Fix unwinding of debug (.debug_frame) PPC code, workaround GCC (BZ 140532). - Fix missing testsuite .log output of testcases using get_compiler_info(). * Fri Jan 12 2007 Jan Kratochvil - 6.5-25 - Fix unwinding of non-CFI (w/o debuginfo) PPC code by recent GCC (BZ 140532). gnucash-2.0.4-1.fc6 ------------------- * Mon Jan 08 2007 Bill Nottingham - 2.0.4-1 - update to 2.0.4 gzip-1.3.9-1.fc7 ---------------- * Mon Jan 15 2007 Ivana Varekova 1.3.9-1 - rebuild to 1.3.9 - spec cleanup libselinux-1.33.4-3.fc7 ----------------------- * Mon Jan 15 2007 Dan Walsh - 1.33.4-3 - Add Ulrich NSCD__GETSERV and NSCD__SHMEMGRP for Uli libwmf-0.2.8.4-12 ----------------- * Tue Jan 16 2007 Caolan McNamara 0.2.8.4-12 - Resolves: rhbz#222734 no need for Makefiles in doc dirs logwatch-7.3.2-3.fc7 -------------------- * Tue Jan 16 2007 Ivana Varekova 7.3.2-3 - Resolves: 222263 sshd script problem parted-1.8.2-1.fc7 ------------------ * Fri Jan 12 2007 David Cantrell - 1.8.2-1 - Upgrade to GNU parted-1.8.2 pyparted-1.8.3-1.fc7 -------------------- * Fri Jan 12 2007 David Cantrell - 1.8.3-1 - Required parted-1.8.2 or higher system-config-printer-0.7.48-1.fc7 ---------------------------------- * Mon Jan 15 2007 Tim Waugh 0.7.48-1 - 0.7.48: - Updated translations. system-config-samba-1.2.39-1.fc7 -------------------------------- * Mon Jan 15 2007 Nils Philippsen - 1.2.39 - handle synonyms and inverted synonyms gracefully (#222595) vnc-4.1.2-10.fc7 ---------------- * Mon Jan 15 2007 Adam Tkac 4.1.2-10.fc7 - fixed render crashing when run in 8bpp w3m-0.5.1-15.fc6 ---------------- * Mon Jan 15 2007 Parag Nemade - 0.5.1-15 - Resolves: rh#221484 wireshark-0.99.5-0.pre2.fc7 --------------------------- * Mon Jan 15 2007 Radek Vokal 0.99.5-0.pre2 - another 0.99.5 prerelease, fix build bug and pie flags Broken deps for ia64 ---------------------------------------------------------- mkinitrd - 6.0.6-1.ia64 requires libparted-1.8.so.0()(64bit) nash - 6.0.6-1.ia64 requires libparted-1.8.so.0()(64bit) Broken deps for ppc64 ---------------------------------------------------------- mkinitrd - 6.0.6-1.ppc64 requires libparted-1.8.so.0()(64bit) nash - 6.0.6-1.ppc64 requires libparted-1.8.so.0()(64bit) Broken deps for s390 ---------------------------------------------------------- mkinitrd - 6.0.6-1.s390 requires libparted-1.8.so.0 nash - 6.0.6-1.s390 requires libparted-1.8.so.0 systemtap - 0.5.10-1.fc7.s390 requires kernel >= 0:2.6.9-11 systemtap-runtime - 0.5.10-1.fc7.s390 requires kernel >= 0:2.6.9-11 Broken deps for s390x ---------------------------------------------------------- mkinitrd - 6.0.6-1.s390x requires libparted-1.8.so.0()(64bit) nash - 6.0.6-1.s390x requires libparted-1.8.so.0()(64bit) nash - 6.0.6-1.s390 requires libparted-1.8.so.0 Broken deps for i386 ---------------------------------------------------------- mkinitrd - 6.0.6-1.i386 requires libparted-1.8.so.0 nash - 6.0.6-1.i386 requires libparted-1.8.so.0 Broken deps for ppc ---------------------------------------------------------- mkinitrd - 6.0.6-1.ppc requires libparted-1.8.so.0 nash - 6.0.6-1.ppc requires libparted-1.8.so.0 Broken deps for x86_64 ---------------------------------------------------------- mkinitrd - 6.0.6-1.x86_64 requires libparted-1.8.so.0()(64bit) nash - 6.0.6-1.i386 requires libparted-1.8.so.0 nash - 6.0.6-1.x86_64 requires libparted-1.8.so.0()(64bit) From kloczek at zie.pg.gda.pl Tue Jan 16 11:50:16 2007 From: kloczek at zie.pg.gda.pl (Tomasz =?UTF-8?Q?K=C5=82oczko?=) Date: Tue, 16 Jan 2007 12:50:16 +0100 Subject: rawhide report: 20070116 changes In-Reply-To: <200701161034.l0GAYxEQ020893@hs20-bc2-6.build.redhat.com> References: <200701161034.l0GAYxEQ020893@hs20-bc2-6.build.redhat.com> Message-ID: <1168948216.31476.1.camel@kloczek01.pracownicy.zie> Dnia 16-01-2007, wto o godzinie 05:34 -0500, buildsys at redhat.com napisa?(a): > Removed package diskdumputils > > Removed package netdump Crush dump support was removed ? kloczek From sundaram at fedoraproject.org Tue Jan 16 12:14:41 2007 From: sundaram at fedoraproject.org (Rahul Sundaram) Date: Tue, 16 Jan 2007 17:44:41 +0530 Subject: rawhide report: 20070116 changes In-Reply-To: <1168948216.31476.1.camel@kloczek01.pracownicy.zie> References: <200701161034.l0GAYxEQ020893@hs20-bc2-6.build.redhat.com> <1168948216.31476.1.camel@kloczek01.pracownicy.zie> Message-ID: <45ACC1B1.7080505@fedoraproject.org> Tomasz K?oczko wrote: > Dnia 16-01-2007, wto o godzinie 05:34 -0500, buildsys at redhat.com > napisa?(a): >> Removed package diskdumputils >> >> Removed package netdump > > Crush dump support was removed ? > Read the list archives. Kexec/kdump has superseded these. Rahul From jwboyer at jdub.homelinux.org Tue Jan 16 12:55:26 2007 From: jwboyer at jdub.homelinux.org (Josh Boyer) Date: Tue, 16 Jan 2007 06:55:26 -0600 Subject: rawhide report: 20070116 changes In-Reply-To: <45ACC1B1.7080505@fedoraproject.org> References: <200701161034.l0GAYxEQ020893@hs20-bc2-6.build.redhat.com> <1168948216.31476.1.camel@kloczek01.pracownicy.zie> <45ACC1B1.7080505@fedoraproject.org> Message-ID: <1168952126.3677.3.camel@zod.rchland.ibm.com> On Tue, 2007-01-16 at 17:44 +0530, Rahul Sundaram wrote: > Tomasz K?oczko wrote: > > Dnia 16-01-2007, wto o godzinie 05:34 -0500, buildsys at redhat.com > > napisa?(a): > >> Removed package diskdumputils > >> > >> Removed package netdump > > > > Crush dump support was removed ? > > > > Read the list archives. Kexec/kdump has superseded these. Except they don't work on ppc32 as far as I know. josh From jkeating at redhat.com Tue Jan 16 13:46:22 2007 From: jkeating at redhat.com (Jesse Keating) Date: Tue, 16 Jan 2007 08:46:22 -0500 Subject: [Fedora-ia64-list] Re: anaconda-runtime error In-Reply-To: <1168937827.15989.250.camel@ymzhang> References: <1168319262.15989.211.camel@ymzhang> <1168569442.15989.240.camel@ymzhang> <1168937827.15989.250.camel@ymzhang> Message-ID: <200701160846.22485.jkeating@redhat.com> On Tuesday 16 January 2007 03:57, Zhang, Yanmin wrote: > The root cause is class Network in file network.py puts useIPv4/6 as per > NetworkDevice attributes while class NetworkDeviceWindow still thinks > useIPv4/6 are net attributes. What version of anaconda are you using? This shouldn't happen in FC6's anaconda, and this was fixed a few revisions ago in rawhide's anaconda. -- Jesse Keating Release Engineer: Fedora -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 189 bytes Desc: not available URL: From jkeating at redhat.com Tue Jan 16 13:56:24 2007 From: jkeating at redhat.com (Jesse Keating) Date: Tue, 16 Jan 2007 08:56:24 -0500 Subject: plans for long term support releases? In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <200701160856.24714.jkeating@redhat.com> On Tuesday 16 January 2007 01:04, Thomas M Steenholdt wrote: > Now that Core and Extras are going to be merged and the distro is > opening up to become even more (?) community driven, has anyone played > with the though of eventually releasing a long term support version of > Fedora? > > It could be a based on a staple snapshot of Fedora 7 + 4 months worth of > updates or whatever, at this point I'm more interested in hearing about > the idea than the details, which will surely follow, if i'm not the only > one who think this could be a good idea. Especially now that we're going > to do special server spins etc... > > Just a thought (hope this was not brought up ages ago and I just missed it) There are a few things going against this. A) Fedora is about new software. Even in our released lines, we constantly upgrade to new software to fix bugs, rather than backport. Would you try to change this philosophy in your extended release? B) Fedora will now have a lifespan of 13~ months. Anything more and you're dangerously close to a RHEL like product, or a RHEL spinoff like CentOS. These release every 18~ months, and are supported for 7~ years. Wouldn't that make a better Long Term Support distribution? Still based on Fedora... C) Community participation. We tried this once before with Legacy, folks weren't exactly beating down our doors to help out doing just security updates for say FC3/4. That's when interest really dwindled. Lots of people said "Sure, I'd love to get those updates, but I have no time/skill to help out." D) Sheer volume. The size of Core+Extras is staggering. Trying to track just security issues across the entire thing is a full time job for at least one person. Actually DOING anything about the security issues is probably another full time job. Getting anybody to QA things is a joke, nobody wants to run test updates on their stable system. All the fun QA happens out in rawhide land pre-release. So you need maybe one or two full time QA folks with access to a multitude of hardware/software configurations. If you don't do this for all software, surely you'll piss people off by not updating the software THEY care about. It will happen. -- Jesse Keating Release Engineer: Fedora -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 189 bytes Desc: not available URL: From jkeating at redhat.com Tue Jan 16 13:59:54 2007 From: jkeating at redhat.com (Jesse Keating) Date: Tue, 16 Jan 2007 08:59:54 -0500 Subject: plans for long term support releases? In-Reply-To: <1168942098.16343.73.camel@mccallum.corsepiu.local> References: <45AC6FE1.2040704@redhat.com> <1168942098.16343.73.camel@mccallum.corsepiu.local> Message-ID: <200701160859.54660.jkeating@redhat.com> On Tuesday 16 January 2007 05:08, Ralf Corsepius wrote: > As I tried to express many times before, to me, FL has always been a > dead-born child which never actually came into real existance And you did so much to help the project out. -- Jesse Keating Release Engineer: Fedora -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 189 bytes Desc: not available URL: From rc040203 at freenet.de Tue Jan 16 14:32:47 2007 From: rc040203 at freenet.de (Ralf Corsepius) Date: Tue, 16 Jan 2007 15:32:47 +0100 Subject: plans for long term support releases? In-Reply-To: <200701160859.54660.jkeating@redhat.com> References: <45AC6FE1.2040704@redhat.com> <1168942098.16343.73.camel@mccallum.corsepiu.local> <200701160859.54660.jkeating@redhat.com> Message-ID: <1168957967.16343.95.camel@mccallum.corsepiu.local> On Tue, 2007-01-16 at 08:59 -0500, Jesse Keating wrote: > On Tuesday 16 January 2007 05:08, Ralf Corsepius wrote: > > As I tried to express many times before, to me, FL has always been a > > dead-born child which never actually came into real existance > > And you did so much to help the project out. Why should I? I have expressed my attitude on a "separate legacy" many times before: It's a matter of effectiveness. Unlike contributing to a separate Legacy or 3rd party repo, as contributor to FE, extending a package's life-time as part of FE, had not meant much (almost none) additional effort to me. Therefore, I was able to keep my FE packages up-to-date for FE3/F4 (within the boundaries RH set by having discontinued FC3/FC4) until some divine instance had decided to close their buildsystems down. The poor victim is the user. In other words: Contributing to a separate Legacy Project means unnecessarily wasting resources to contributors at least some FE contributors could provide at almost no personal costs. Therefore I had been expecting "Fedora Legacy" not to be success from the very beginning. Ralf From jkeating at redhat.com Tue Jan 16 14:37:45 2007 From: jkeating at redhat.com (Jesse Keating) Date: Tue, 16 Jan 2007 09:37:45 -0500 Subject: plans for long term support releases? In-Reply-To: <1168957967.16343.95.camel@mccallum.corsepiu.local> References: <200701160859.54660.jkeating@redhat.com> <1168957967.16343.95.camel@mccallum.corsepiu.local> Message-ID: <200701160937.45233.jkeating@redhat.com> On Tuesday 16 January 2007 09:32, Ralf Corsepius wrote: > In other words: Contributing to a separate Legacy Project means > unnecessarily wasting resources to contributors at least some FE > contributors could provide at almost no personal costs. Therefore I had > been expecting "Fedora Legacy" not to be success from the very > beginning. And you certainly had a hand in making it so. Its so much more fun to stomp our feet and shake our fists at hurdles in our path rather than expending any effort to work around those hurdles. Thanks for your support. -- Jesse Keating Release Engineer: Fedora -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 189 bytes Desc: not available URL: From rc040203 at freenet.de Tue Jan 16 14:49:40 2007 From: rc040203 at freenet.de (Ralf Corsepius) Date: Tue, 16 Jan 2007 15:49:40 +0100 Subject: plans for long term support releases? In-Reply-To: <200701160937.45233.jkeating@redhat.com> References: <200701160859.54660.jkeating@redhat.com> <1168957967.16343.95.camel@mccallum.corsepiu.local> <200701160937.45233.jkeating@redhat.com> Message-ID: <1168958980.16343.101.camel@mccallum.corsepiu.local> On Tue, 2007-01-16 at 09:37 -0500, Jesse Keating wrote: > On Tuesday 16 January 2007 09:32, Ralf Corsepius wrote: > > In other words: Contributing to a separate Legacy Project means > > unnecessarily wasting resources to contributors at least some FE > > contributors could provide at almost no personal costs. Therefore I had > > been expecting "Fedora Legacy" not to be success from the very > > beginning. > > And you certainly had a hand in making it so. Beg your pardon? > Its so much more fun to stomp our feet and shake our fists at hurdles in our > path rather than expending any effort to work around those hurdles. My feel is you have never been interesting in extending Fedora's life time nor ever been seriously considering it, because Legacy was YOUR baby. Ralf From jkeating at redhat.com Tue Jan 16 14:55:45 2007 From: jkeating at redhat.com (Jesse Keating) Date: Tue, 16 Jan 2007 09:55:45 -0500 Subject: plans for long term support releases? In-Reply-To: <1168958980.16343.101.camel@mccallum.corsepiu.local> References: <200701160937.45233.jkeating@redhat.com> <1168958980.16343.101.camel@mccallum.corsepiu.local> Message-ID: <200701160955.45165.jkeating@redhat.com> On Tuesday 16 January 2007 09:49, Ralf Corsepius wrote: > My feel is you have never been interesting in extending Fedora's life > time nor ever been seriously considering it, because Legacy was YOUR > baby. I very much wanted to extend it when there seemed to be enough of a need and community to make it happen. However I'm not going to do all the work and get yelled at for not doing it right/quick enough. Nor do I want any of my (few) volunteers to go through that either. Once it became appearant that there was just not enough interested capable people to help out in making it happen, I lost interest. Once again its easier to sit on the outside and criticize than to throw your hat in the ring and actually do something. -- Jesse Keating Release Engineer: Fedora -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 189 bytes Desc: not available URL: From prarit at redhat.com Tue Jan 16 14:59:51 2007 From: prarit at redhat.com (Prarit Bhargava) Date: Tue, 16 Jan 2007 09:59:51 -0500 Subject: [Fedora-ia64-list] Re: anaconda-runtime error In-Reply-To: <200701160846.22485.jkeating@redhat.com> References: <1168319262.15989.211.camel@ymzhang> <1168569442.15989.240.camel@ymzhang> <1168937827.15989.250.camel@ymzhang> <200701160846.22485.jkeating@redhat.com> Message-ID: <45ACE867.5090605@redhat.com> Jesse Keating wrote: > On Tuesday 16 January 2007 03:57, Zhang, Yanmin wrote: > >> The root cause is class Network in file network.py puts useIPv4/6 as per >> NetworkDevice attributes while class NetworkDeviceWindow still thinks >> useIPv4/6 are net attributes. >> > > What version of anaconda are you using? This shouldn't happen in FC6's > anaconda, and this was fixed a few revisions ago in rawhide's anaconda. > Jesse, I just entered a bug in on this: BZ 222840. P. > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------ > > -- > Fedora-ia64-list mailing list > Fedora-ia64-list at redhat.com > https://www.redhat.com/mailman/listinfo/fedora-ia64-list > From rc040203 at freenet.de Tue Jan 16 15:26:38 2007 From: rc040203 at freenet.de (Ralf Corsepius) Date: Tue, 16 Jan 2007 16:26:38 +0100 Subject: plans for long term support releases? In-Reply-To: <200701160955.45165.jkeating@redhat.com> References: <200701160937.45233.jkeating@redhat.com> <1168958980.16343.101.camel@mccallum.corsepiu.local> <200701160955.45165.jkeating@redhat.com> Message-ID: <1168961199.17228.12.camel@mccallum.corsepiu.local> On Tue, 2007-01-16 at 09:55 -0500, Jesse Keating wrote: > Once again its easier to sit on the outside and criticize than to throw your > hat in the ring and actually do something. You apparently didn't read what I wrote, so once more, in a nutshell: * I did continue to maintain my packages in FE for those Fedora distros RH had discontinued, as legacy/convenience to the users of those distros, because it doesn't cost me much, despite I don't have any personal use for these discontinued distros. * I am still offering to do so, as part of FEDORA. I would not be surprised if the same considerations would also apply to other FEDORA contributors. In other words: By you personally insisting on a separate Legacy Project and RH not granting community access to Core, an option you + RH could easily "buy-in" is being wasted. This is your decision, not mine. Now, the situation as it had persisted thoughout recent years is about to change again: Core seems (?) to be in progress of being opened. I.e. it's up to you+RH to pick up this opportunity to change something about "Legacy". I am offering to contribute to a "Legacy within Fedora" Unfortunately you and Warren seem to be choke this option once more. So be it - Your decision. Ralf From mmcgrath at fedoraproject.org Tue Jan 16 15:27:01 2007 From: mmcgrath at fedoraproject.org (Mike McGrath) Date: Tue, 16 Jan 2007 09:27:01 -0600 Subject: Fwd: Outage tonight In-Reply-To: <45ACDC36.8010000@redhat.com> References: <45ACDC36.8010000@redhat.com> Message-ID: <3237e4410701160727q20a7c3f9q75f0cb75144d4735@mail.gmail.com> Outage tonight (see below). This will effect pretty much everything except the wiki and torrents. -Mike ---------- Forwarded message ---------- From: Stacy J. Brandenburg Date: Jan 16, 2007 8:07 AM Subject: Outage tonight To: Fedora Infrastructure -----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- Hash: SHA1 I am not sure if anyone has let you know or not yet, but we have a planned outage of all services in the DC tonight. It starts at 9:00p Eastern and lasts for up to 6 hours. This will affect www.redhat.com, rhn.redhat.com, and all of the fedora infrastructure. I hope it will not really be 6 hours. I am applying a microcode upgrade to some of the blades in the 65xx chassis as well as installing 2 new border routers. Please be patient tonight. If you notice any problems after the window, please let me know via email and I will take a look. Thanks, From katzj at redhat.com Tue Jan 16 15:36:56 2007 From: katzj at redhat.com (Jeremy Katz) Date: Tue, 16 Jan 2007 10:36:56 -0500 Subject: Fedora 7 - USB Install method - Everything ISO. In-Reply-To: <20070116042459.GA22128@nostromo.devel.redhat.com> References: <20070104195032.GE4693@nostromo.devel.redhat.com> <459E20D7.9020307@gmail.com> <200701050820.28298.jkeating@redhat.com> <459E5DA4.6080107@gmail.com> <20070105150153.GA13767@jadzia.bu.edu> <459E6C2E.7000701@leemhuis.info> <1168919535.12047.484.camel@dragon.valuecommerce.ne.jp> <20070116042459.GA22128@nostromo.devel.redhat.com> Message-ID: <1168961816.14508.8.camel@aglarond.local> On Mon, 2007-01-15 at 23:24 -0500, Bill Nottingham wrote: > Naoki (naoki at valuecommerce.com) said: > > DVDs are a pain, they are cumbersome and too small to fit a full OS > > ... then perhaps that the OS is so big is the problem. :) > > More seriously... > > > So would it not make sense to have an "everything" ISO for use on > > removable USB devices? > > *Shrug*. Wouldn't really make sense for it to be an ISO, from a > raw FS standpoint. You could have a torrent that just makes > a directory, even. ISOs are convenient from a distribution standpoint just to ensure that things were downloaded correctly[1]. I can see how spending some time to make the "install from a USB device" a little bit easier could definitely have advantages. At the same time, I don't think that the areas for which DVDs are a problem will be better off with large USB storage devices. Jeremy [1] Also, for ensuring that people don't delete things because "I don't need that" then leading to install problems. Not that such a thing ever happened with hd tree installs :-) From dtimms at iinet.net.au Tue Jan 16 15:44:09 2007 From: dtimms at iinet.net.au (David Timms) Date: Wed, 17 Jan 2007 02:44:09 +1100 Subject: plans for long term support releases? In-Reply-To: <200701160856.24714.jkeating@redhat.com> References: <200701160856.24714.jkeating@redhat.com> Message-ID: <45ACF2C9.1040800@iinet.net.au> Jesse Keating wrote: > On Tuesday 16 January 2007 01:04, Thomas M Steenholdt wrote: >> Now that Core and Extras are going to be merged and the distro is >> opening up to become even more (?) community driven, has anyone played >> with the though of eventually releasing a long term support version of >> Fedora? >> >> It could be a based on a staple snapshot of Fedora 7 + 4 months worth of >> updates or whatever, at this point I'm more interested in hearing about >> the idea than the details, which will surely follow, if i'm not the only >> one who think this could be a good idea. Especially now that we're going >> to do special server spins etc... >> >> Just a thought (hope this was not brought up ages ago and I just missed it) > > There are a few things going against this. > > A) Fedora is about new software. Even in our released lines, we constantly > upgrade to new software to fix bugs, rather than backport. Would you try to > change this philosophy in your extended release? No. But I guess what you are saying is that without a truly wide range of test machines / configurations to test updates on before release, then backporting fixes is the safest way to go, yet most time expensive to perform ? For example the external fc5 respin was excellent. since it was released maybe 4 months after the fc5 release, and had updates already included. It also meant you missed a lot of the early fun in things not quite working right, and saved time in getting a machine up2date from the moment you began installing. Perhaps having an official respin perhaps 3/4 months post that only incorporates package updates that have been released by the project anyway would not be anywhere near as much work as the f rawhide->t1->t2->t3 upgrade to new packages ? I could imagine that marking the respin as such would be suggestive of "the dont get vX.0, wait for vX.1 release" situation that you come across in other software. I don't remember what people thought of the rh7.1/2/3 releases in terms of should I play with .1 or wiat until .2 etc ? > B) Fedora will now have a lifespan of 13~ months. Anything more and you're > dangerously close to a RHEL like product, or a RHEL spinoff like CentOS. > These release every 18~ months, and are supported for 7~ years. Wouldn't > that make a better Long Term Support distribution? Still based on Fedora... It may however be workload reasonable to choose specific fedori, which were used as a base {3/6} for a RHEL {4/5} etc, and have maintainers note the rhel security updates - with the intention of updating packages to fix security issues. By security issues I guess we would include kernel/openssh/openssl as key areas. I imagine you would start to generate problems if you attempted to bump to a new apache/tomcat php/perl/python etc ? From what I have seen, bumping to a new python requires a fifth of the packages in fedora to be rebuilt. > C) Community participation. We tried this once before with Legacy, folks > weren't exactly beating down our doors to help out doing just security > updates for say FC3/4. That's when interest really dwindled. Lots of people > said "Sure, I'd love to get those updates, but I have no time/skill to help > out." Updating kernel packages would be almost impossible IMHO unless you are an individual doing it all day. Community co-maintainers using RH mentors to verify / give hints for key packages might be a step toward solving this. It doesn't matter which software project, there is a serious amount of knowledge to be gained before you can do anything useful. A mentor {ie experienced with packaging / building that package} can offer hints on what to do/not do, on the right track etc. Is it be possible for a comaintainer to add a {non-trunk?} patch {eg to fix hole Z}, and have the build system build the package, and allowing the comaintainer to test the build {updates-alpha} before requesting wider testing {in updates-testing} ? > D) Sheer volume. The size of Core+Extras is staggering. Trying to track just > security issues across the entire thing is a full time job for at least one > person. Actually DOING anything about the security issues is probably > another full time job. Getting anybody to QA things is a joke, nobody wants > to run test updates on their stable system. All the fun QA happens out in > rawhide land pre-release. So you need maybe one or two full time QA folks > with access to a multitude of hardware/software configurations. If you don't > do this for all software, surely you'll piss people off by not updating the > software THEY care about. It will happen. With extras, you are expected as a package contributor / maintainer to subscribe to the appropriate mailing lists of the package you sponsor, to be informed of releases and security problems, and attempt to solve them in a timely manner {3 weeks}. If the workload is shared around in to more maintainers, then it would seem to help in not making huge workloads for individuals. I imagine this concept will be stretched to core packages, and that various original core packages will be able to have community maintainers in the future. I still don't know though how you can guarantee that I packager doesn't do bad things {introducing security problems, enabling an external repo etc}. I guess ACL's are good, and something could be in place to ensure that the generator of a patch can't build and sign and push a package without {trusted} people verifying their work {aka lkml signed off by x,y,z}, and having eg at least {some number} of users confirm a updates-alpha package seems oeprational before wider testing in updates-testing, and then not releasing to updates before {some number x10} have reported success with the -testing package. I think the long-term release concept comes from management side who remember eg novell file/print servers that never had problems and regularly had 6 months or more of uptime, and ran until you filled the disk space up. But in the internet connected wider world, perhaps this is really no longer possible ? In terms of selinux and firewalls, would it be a possibility to release security ~corks~ for older releases by updating selinux rules or firewalls to block each published security {eg CVE} issue, rather than actually updating the package ? If such a solution is possible {eg deep packet inspection as decent hardware firewalls do}, it must also be possible to perform same in software. Oops, this is very long, hope there is something here that isn't drivel - for reading / commenting. DaveT. From hughsient at gmail.com Tue Jan 16 15:50:47 2007 From: hughsient at gmail.com (Richard Hughes) Date: Tue, 16 Jan 2007 15:50:47 +0000 Subject: plans for long term support releases? In-Reply-To: <200701160856.24714.jkeating@redhat.com> References: <200701160856.24714.jkeating@redhat.com> Message-ID: <1168962647.17628.9.camel@hughsie-laptop> On Tue, 2007-01-16 at 08:56 -0500, Jesse Keating wrote: > A) Fedora is about new software. Even in our released lines, we > constantly > upgrade to new software to fix bugs, rather than backport. Would you > try to > change this philosophy in your extended release? I agree with this point. Fedora is a very aggressive distribution and trying to extend the lifetime by switching to a "try not to break anything by patching old versions" at the end of a distro life is wrong in my opinion. To me, if I want to deploy Linux in an enterprise where I require 5 years support, I buy a RHEL subscription. That's what people pay the money for, long term support. If I want to install a box for my parents that I can update to the latest Fedora once a year at Christmas - I choose Fedora to save some cash. That's the way I think about Fedora. Richard. From lamont at gurulabs.com Tue Jan 16 16:22:29 2007 From: lamont at gurulabs.com (Lamont Peterson) Date: Tue, 16 Jan 2007 09:22:29 -0700 Subject: Smarter install - Headless In-Reply-To: <000001c7392a$f87ed5e0$020aa8c0@a18> References: <000001c7392a$f87ed5e0$020aa8c0@a18> Message-ID: <200701160922.33777.lamont@gurulabs.com> On Monday 15 January 2007 09:58pm, Jerry Williams wrote: > I have noticed that when you boot from the DVD that if you don't do > anything it acts like you hit enter. > > How hard would it be to change that to do the following. > > Check to see if the system has a keyboard. > If not look for a floppy with ks.cfg on it. > If it finds it act like the user typed: linux ks=floppy > > If no floppy, look for usb device and do the same. > Linux ks=usb/ks.cfg kind of thing. > > If no usb start network with dhcp and look for > Web server linux ks=http://fedora7./ks.cfg > Or maybe linux ks=http://fedora7./.cfg Why? Why not just use DHCP "nextserver" and "filename" options to get the kickstart file via NFS? > If no web server then run: > Linux vnc vncpassword=Fedora7 > > If it has a keyboard just do the normal thing. > > This would make it so you don't really have to change the dhcp server. What's the advantage of that? Adding "nextserver" and "kickstart" lines is easy. They can even be placed within VCI conditionals or with "static" IP assignments if you need different kickstart files for different boxes. > Maybe add an alias for a web server. > Then the install would happen and when completed would eject DVD. > Take out the DVD and power cycle the box and be done. I would be interested in seeing anaconda present some kind of selection "menu" of available kickstart files if "linux ks=whatever:/some/dir/" were specified (or via DHCP "filename"), pointing to a directory with several kickstart files in it. -- Lamont Peterson Senior Instructor Guru Labs, L.C. [ http://www.GuruLabs.com/ ] NOTE: All messages from this email address should be digitally signed with my 0xDC0DD409 GPG key. It is available on the pgp.mit.edu keyserver as well as other keyservers that sync with MIT's. -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 189 bytes Desc: not available URL: From jwilliam at xmission.com Tue Jan 16 16:38:17 2007 From: jwilliam at xmission.com (Jerry Williams) Date: Tue, 16 Jan 2007 09:38:17 -0700 Subject: Smarter install - Headless In-Reply-To: <200701160922.33777.lamont@gurulabs.com> References: <000001c7392a$f87ed5e0$020aa8c0@a18> <200701160922.33777.lamont@gurulabs.com> Message-ID: <003f01c7398c$b9f60020$020aa8c0@a18> > -----Original Message----- > From: fedora-devel-list-bounces at redhat.com [mailto:fedora-devel-list- > bounces at redhat.com] On Behalf Of Lamont Peterson > Sent: Tuesday, January 16, 2007 9:22 AM > To: fedora-devel-list at redhat.com > Subject: Re: Smarter install - Headless > > On Monday 15 January 2007 09:58pm, Jerry Williams wrote: > > I have noticed that when you boot from the DVD that if you don't do > > anything it acts like you hit enter. > > > > How hard would it be to change that to do the following. > > > > Check to see if the system has a keyboard. > > If not look for a floppy with ks.cfg on it. > > If it finds it act like the user typed: linux ks=floppy > > > > If no floppy, look for usb device and do the same. > > Linux ks=usb/ks.cfg kind of thing. > > > > If no usb start network with dhcp and look for > > Web server linux ks=http://fedora7./ks.cfg > > Or maybe linux ks=http://fedora7./.cfg > > Why? Why not just use DHCP "nextserver" and "filename" options to get the > kickstart file via NFS? That is easy at home, not so easy at work and they try really hard not to use nfs if possible. > > > If no web server then run: > > Linux vnc vncpassword=Fedora7 > > > > If it has a keyboard just do the normal thing. > > > > This would make it so you don't really have to change the dhcp server. > > What's the advantage of that? Adding "nextserver" and "kickstart" lines > is > easy. They can even be placed within VCI conditionals or with "static" IP > assignments if you need different kickstart files for different boxes. > > > Maybe add an alias for a web server. > > Then the install would happen and when completed would eject DVD. > > Take out the DVD and power cycle the box and be done. > > I would be interested in seeing anaconda present some kind of selection > "menu" > of available kickstart files if "linux ks=whatever:/some/dir/" were > specified > (or via DHCP "filename"), pointing to a directory with several kickstart > files in it. > -- > Lamont Peterson > Senior Instructor > Guru Labs, L.C. [ http://www.GuruLabs.com/ ] > > NOTE: All messages from this email address should be digitally signed > with my > 0xDC0DD409 GPG key. It is available on the pgp.mit.edu keyserver as > well as other keyservers that sync with MIT's. From lamont at gurulabs.com Tue Jan 16 16:42:32 2007 From: lamont at gurulabs.com (Lamont Peterson) Date: Tue, 16 Jan 2007 09:42:32 -0700 Subject: Fedora 7 - USB Install method - Everything ISO. In-Reply-To: <1168961816.14508.8.camel@aglarond.local> References: <20070104195032.GE4693@nostromo.devel.redhat.com> <20070116042459.GA22128@nostromo.devel.redhat.com> <1168961816.14508.8.camel@aglarond.local> Message-ID: <200701160942.32642.lamont@gurulabs.com> On Tuesday 16 January 2007 08:36am, Jeremy Katz wrote: > On Mon, 2007-01-15 at 23:24 -0500, Bill Nottingham wrote: > > Naoki (naoki at valuecommerce.com) said: > > > DVDs are a pain, they are cumbersome and too small to fit a full OS > > > > ... then perhaps that the OS is so big is the problem. :) > > > > More seriously... > > > > > So would it not make sense to have an "everything" ISO for use on > > > removable USB devices? > > > > *Shrug*. Wouldn't really make sense for it to be an ISO, from a > > raw FS standpoint. You could have a torrent that just makes > > a directory, even. > > ISOs are convenient from a distribution standpoint just to ensure that > things were downloaded correctly[1]. I can see how spending some time > to make the "install from a USB device" a little bit easier could > definitely have advantages. Agree. But perhaps it's not an ISO, but just a "usb-disk.cpio" that's 8GB+ (whatever) in size. That could be downloaded and extracted to wherever, be it a USB disk or a file server (NFS, etc.). > At the same time, I don't think that the > areas for which DVDs are a problem will be better off with large USB > storage devices. Agreed. For those environments, network installs typically make much more sense. Even on my home systems, I do network installs when I can because it's typically faster and easier than swapping CDs or burning DVDs. However, to set up a network installation with all available packages, I would probably just continue to create my own mirror of the released packages and of the updates repo. But I agree that having a single file to download for initial setup of such file servers would be advantageous. It could also be the "roll-your-own-fedora-spin-kit" with all fedora packages + the spin tools (to build DVD and CD ISOs). > Jeremy > > [1] Also, for ensuring that people don't delete things because "I don't > need that" then leading to install problems. Not that such a thing ever > happened with hd tree installs :-) Yup. -- Lamont Peterson Senior Instructor Guru Labs, L.C. [ http://www.GuruLabs.com/ ] NOTE: All messages from this email address should be digitally signed with my 0xDC0DD409 GPG key. It is available on the pgp.mit.edu keyserver as well as other keyservers that sync with MIT's. -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 189 bytes Desc: not available URL: From jkeating at redhat.com Tue Jan 16 16:50:22 2007 From: jkeating at redhat.com (Jesse Keating) Date: Tue, 16 Jan 2007 11:50:22 -0500 Subject: plans for long term support releases? In-Reply-To: <1168961199.17228.12.camel@mccallum.corsepiu.local> References: <200701160955.45165.jkeating@redhat.com> <1168961199.17228.12.camel@mccallum.corsepiu.local> Message-ID: <200701161150.25519.jkeating@redhat.com> On Tuesday 16 January 2007 10:26, Ralf Corsepius wrote: > In other words: By you personally insisting on a separate Legacy Project > and RH not granting community access to Core, an option you + RH could > easily "buy-in" is being wasted. This is your decision, not mine. Given that Legacy started before I was a Red Hat employee, and before there was even Extras, it had to start externally as a separate project, using the name Fedora though. By it being a "separate" project, all that really meant was a different infrastructure. Since none that people outside of Red Hat could access existed, I don't see any other way. By the time Extras spun up and it was viable to make use of that infrastructure for Legacy uses, the interest in Legacy was so low that it seemed rather pointless. > > Now, the situation as it had persisted thoughout recent years is about > to change again: Core seems (?) to be in progress of being opened. > I.e. it's up to you+RH to pick up this opportunity to change something > about "Legacy". I am offering to contribute to a "Legacy within Fedora" > > Unfortunately you and Warren seem to be choke this option once more. So > be it - Your decision. That's because at least I don't see the need to try and hammer the square Fedora peg into the LTS hole. Especially when there are nice round pegs like RHEL with actual support and SLAs or CentOS with a large and vibrant community, both of which are based on Fedora, that fit perfectly into that LTS hole. Why continue beating a square peg into a round hole? -- Jesse Keating Release Engineer: Fedora -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 189 bytes Desc: not available URL: From lamont at gurulabs.com Tue Jan 16 16:59:31 2007 From: lamont at gurulabs.com (Lamont Peterson) Date: Tue, 16 Jan 2007 09:59:31 -0700 Subject: Smarter install - Headless In-Reply-To: <003f01c7398c$b9f60020$020aa8c0@a18> References: <000001c7392a$f87ed5e0$020aa8c0@a18> <200701160922.33777.lamont@gurulabs.com> <003f01c7398c$b9f60020$020aa8c0@a18> Message-ID: <200701160959.31570.lamont@gurulabs.com> On Tuesday 16 January 2007 09:38am, Jerry Williams wrote: [snip] > > > If no usb start network with dhcp and look for > > > Web server linux ks=http://fedora7./ks.cfg > > > Or maybe linux ks=http://fedora7./.cfg > > > > Why? Why not just use DHCP "nextserver" and "filename" options to get > > the kickstart file via NFS? OK. I guess I'm confused by these: > That is easy at home, not so easy at work Why is it so hard to add two little line to a DHCP server at work yet so easy at home? I would have to guess that you have a lot of red tape to deal with or something like that. > and they try really hard not to > use nfs if possible. Why? What's wrong with NFS? Network installs via either HTTP or FTP take longer (i.e. are slower) than via NFS. -- Lamont Peterson Senior Instructor Guru Labs, L.C. [ http://www.GuruLabs.com/ ] NOTE: All messages from this email address should be digitally signed with my 0xDC0DD409 GPG key. It is available on the pgp.mit.edu keyserver as well as other keyservers that sync with MIT's. -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 189 bytes Desc: not available URL: From bruno at wolff.to Tue Jan 16 17:03:29 2007 From: bruno at wolff.to (Bruno Wolff III) Date: Tue, 16 Jan 2007 11:03:29 -0600 Subject: plans for long term support releases? In-Reply-To: <1168962647.17628.9.camel@hughsie-laptop> References: <200701160856.24714.jkeating@redhat.com> <1168962647.17628.9.camel@hughsie-laptop> Message-ID: <20070116170329.GB16028@wolff.to> On Tue, Jan 16, 2007 at 15:50:47 +0000, Richard Hughes wrote: > > I agree with this point. Fedora is a very aggressive distribution and > trying to extend the lifetime by switching to a "try not to break > anything by patching old versions" at the end of a distro life is wrong > in my opinion. I think it would be much better to spend effort in making upgrading Fedora easier and safer, so that people have less desire/need to stick with old versions of Fedora. From katzj at redhat.com Tue Jan 16 17:08:02 2007 From: katzj at redhat.com (Jeremy Katz) Date: Tue, 16 Jan 2007 12:08:02 -0500 Subject: Fedora 7 - USB Install method - Everything ISO. In-Reply-To: <200701160942.32642.lamont@gurulabs.com> References: <20070104195032.GE4693@nostromo.devel.redhat.com> <20070116042459.GA22128@nostromo.devel.redhat.com> <1168961816.14508.8.camel@aglarond.local> <200701160942.32642.lamont@gurulabs.com> Message-ID: <1168967282.14508.10.camel@aglarond.local> On Tue, 2007-01-16 at 09:42 -0700, Lamont Peterson wrote: > On Tuesday 16 January 2007 08:36am, Jeremy Katz wrote: > > On Mon, 2007-01-15 at 23:24 -0500, Bill Nottingham wrote: > > > Naoki (naoki at valuecommerce.com) said: > > > > DVDs are a pain, they are cumbersome and too small to fit a full OS > > > > > > ... then perhaps that the OS is so big is the problem. :) > > > > > > More seriously... > > > > > > > So would it not make sense to have an "everything" ISO for use on > > > > removable USB devices? > > > > > > *Shrug*. Wouldn't really make sense for it to be an ISO, from a > > > raw FS standpoint. You could have a torrent that just makes > > > a directory, even. > > > > ISOs are convenient from a distribution standpoint just to ensure that > > things were downloaded correctly[1]. I can see how spending some time > > to make the "install from a USB device" a little bit easier could > > definitely have advantages. > > Agree. But perhaps it's not an ISO, but just a "usb-disk.cpio" that's 8GB+ > (whatever) in size. That could be downloaded and extracted to wherever, be > it a USB disk or a file server (NFS, etc.). We support having the ISO being accessed over NFS. And you can loopback mount for HTTP/FTP. In the interest of our mirrors not hunting me down and killing me, I'd prefer to have as few different copies of the "same" bits as possible :-) Jeremy From jkeating at redhat.com Tue Jan 16 17:23:25 2007 From: jkeating at redhat.com (Jesse Keating) Date: Tue, 16 Jan 2007 12:23:25 -0500 Subject: Fedora 7 - USB Install method - Everything ISO. In-Reply-To: <1168967282.14508.10.camel@aglarond.local> References: <20070104195032.GE4693@nostromo.devel.redhat.com> <200701160942.32642.lamont@gurulabs.com> <1168967282.14508.10.camel@aglarond.local> Message-ID: <200701161223.25987.jkeating@redhat.com> On Tuesday 16 January 2007 12:08, Jeremy Katz wrote: > We support having the ISO being accessed over NFS. ?And you can loopback > mount for HTTP/FTP. ?In the interest of our mirrors not hunting me down > and killing me, I'd prefer to have as few different copies of the "same" > bits as possible :-) In the interest of having the compose finish in anything possibly considered reasonable time, I'd rather not repackage up the same bits in many different containers. -- Jesse Keating Release Engineer: Fedora -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 189 bytes Desc: not available URL: From lamont at gurulabs.com Tue Jan 16 17:25:31 2007 From: lamont at gurulabs.com (Lamont Peterson) Date: Tue, 16 Jan 2007 10:25:31 -0700 Subject: Fedora 7 - USB Install method - Everything ISO. In-Reply-To: <1168967282.14508.10.camel@aglarond.local> References: <20070104195032.GE4693@nostromo.devel.redhat.com> <200701160942.32642.lamont@gurulabs.com> <1168967282.14508.10.camel@aglarond.local> Message-ID: <200701161025.32045.lamont@gurulabs.com> On Tuesday 16 January 2007 10:08am, Jeremy Katz wrote: > On Tue, 2007-01-16 at 09:42 -0700, Lamont Peterson wrote: > > On Tuesday 16 January 2007 08:36am, Jeremy Katz wrote: > > > On Mon, 2007-01-15 at 23:24 -0500, Bill Nottingham wrote: > > > > Naoki (naoki at valuecommerce.com) said: > > > > > DVDs are a pain, they are cumbersome and too small to fit a full OS > > > > > > > > ... then perhaps that the OS is so big is the problem. :) > > > > > > > > More seriously... > > > > > > > > > So would it not make sense to have an "everything" ISO for use on > > > > > removable USB devices? > > > > > > > > *Shrug*. Wouldn't really make sense for it to be an ISO, from a > > > > raw FS standpoint. You could have a torrent that just makes > > > > a directory, even. > > > > > > ISOs are convenient from a distribution standpoint just to ensure that > > > things were downloaded correctly[1]. I can see how spending some time > > > to make the "install from a USB device" a little bit easier could > > > definitely have advantages. > > > > Agree. But perhaps it's not an ISO, but just a "usb-disk.cpio" that's > > 8GB+ (whatever) in size. That could be downloaded and extracted to > > wherever, be it a USB disk or a file server (NFS, etc.). > > We support having the ISO being accessed over NFS. And you can loopback > mount for HTTP/FTP. In the interest of our mirrors not hunting me down > and killing me, I'd prefer to have as few different copies of the "same" > bits as possible :-) Very good point. So, I'll just keep using the full os/ + updates repo. I think that's the best solution for both network and hard drive installs when people want the full distribution. -- Lamont Peterson Senior Instructor Guru Labs, L.C. [ http://www.GuruLabs.com/ ] NOTE: All messages from this email address should be digitally signed with my 0xDC0DD409 GPG key. It is available on the pgp.mit.edu keyserver as well as other keyservers that sync with MIT's. -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 189 bytes Desc: not available URL: From fedora at leemhuis.info Tue Jan 16 18:01:29 2007 From: fedora at leemhuis.info (Thorsten Leemhuis) Date: Tue, 16 Jan 2007 19:01:29 +0100 Subject: Name for a FESCo Successor? Suggestions anyone? Message-ID: <45AD12F9.3050204@leemhuis.info> Cross-posting to three lists, but follow-up set to fedora-devel, to not have the discussion on 3 lists in parallel. But I'm sure mailman will eat the manual follow up before sending the mail out again :-/ So please adjust it manually and send your replies *only* to fedora-devel ;-) tia! Hi all! FESCo in its yesterday out-of-order meeting agreed to follow the proposal I posted on fedora-advisory-board ( https://www.redhat.com/archives/fedora-advisory-board/2007-January/msg00129.html ) to merge the Core Cabal and FESCo into a new committee that handles the day to day work around the stuff that was formally known as Fedora Core and Fedora Extras. In other words: we integrate Jesse (aka f13) and Bill (aka notting) into FESCo (Jeremy is already part of FESCo), merge the responsibilities of both groups (and thus give it lot more to do). The Fedora Board will probably discuss the proposal in todays meeting, too. But one issue is still totally undecided and needs to be solved soon: What do we call that FESCo and Core Cabal successor? The "E" in FESCo until now stood for Extras, but soon Extras will vanish due to the merge. So hat do we want to call it? Suggestions that came up: FTC -- Fedora Technical Committee FTT -- Fedora Technical Team FET -- Fedora Engineering Team FEDCo -- Fedora Distribution Committee FESCo -- Fedora Steering Committee 42 None of the above name suggestions did receive a "yes, that's a really great idea, I like it, all the people I asked love it, thus go for it" from the people involved in the discussions. Thus with this mail we'd like to ask the community for suggestions and its option: "Which of the above names do you like most or do you have something better in mind that sounds good, is not to easily confused with other stuff from this world and roughly describes what the committee does?" CU thl P.S.: For those that missed it, I'm not FESCo's chairmen any more (but still a FESCo member) since last Thursday -- After doing the job for one year I felt that it's time for me to hand it over to someone else with fresh blood and new ideas. Brian Pepple is FESCo's interims chair now and I'm sure he'll do a great job. Please help him as good as you can -- and always keep in mind: You don't have to be in FESCo or any other committee to to help improving Fedora! P.P.S.:Ohh, some backgrounds for the proposed names: * FTC -- name clash with Federal Trade Commission. A bit bad, but seems some people don't care much about that. http://www.acronymfinder.com/af-query.asp?Acronym=FTC&Find=find&string=exact 39 meanings in total on acronym finder * FTT -- "Failure to thrive (FTT) refers to a baby or child that is not developing as well as desired." http://www.acronymfinder.com/af-query.asp?Acronym=FTT&Find=find&string=exact 12 meanings in total on acronym finder * FTT -- Field-Effect Transistor http://www.acronymfinder.com/af-query.asp?Acronym=FET&Find=find&string=exact 24 meanings in total on acronym finder * FEDSCo "Federal Employees Distributing Company (Co-Op)" http://www.acronymfinder.com/af-query.asp?Acronym=FEDCo&Find=find&string=exact 2 meanings on acronym finder * FESCO-- Fedora Steering Committee is to easily confused with the Board, thus probably a no-go * 42 -- Answer to Life, the Universe, and Everything http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Answer_to_Life%2C_the_Universe%2C_and_Everything From pertusus at free.fr Tue Jan 16 19:40:19 2007 From: pertusus at free.fr (Patrice Dumas) Date: Tue, 16 Jan 2007 20:40:19 +0100 Subject: Name for a FESCo Successor? Suggestions anyone? In-Reply-To: <45AD12F9.3050204@leemhuis.info> References: <45AD12F9.3050204@leemhuis.info> Message-ID: <20070116194019.GA2657@free.fr> On Tue, Jan 16, 2007 at 07:01:29PM +0100, Thorsten Leemhuis wrote: > > But one issue is still totally undecided and needs to be solved soon: > What do we call that FESCo and Core Cabal successor? The "E" in FESCo > until now stood for Extras, but soon Extras will vanish due to the > merge. So hat do we want to call it? Suggestions that came up: > > FTC -- Fedora Technical Committee > > FTT -- Fedora Technical Team > > FET -- Fedora Engineering Team > > FEDCo -- Fedora Distribution Committee > > FESCo -- Fedora Steering Committee I like this one better, since FESCo is not really a technical commitee (the packaging commitee is a technical commitee, as are the SIGs, the infrastructure team and so on), it is also a representative of the community. It also has tasks of technical nature, but it seems to me that its distinguishing task is to be steering. > P.S.: For those that missed it, I'm not FESCo's chairmen any more (but > still a FESCo member) since last Thursday -- After doing the job for one I think you were a good chairman. Thanks for you work. -- Pat From michael.wiktowy at gmail.com Tue Jan 16 19:42:27 2007 From: michael.wiktowy at gmail.com (Michael Wiktowy) Date: Tue, 16 Jan 2007 14:42:27 -0500 Subject: Name for a FESCo Successor? Suggestions anyone? In-Reply-To: <45AD12F9.3050204@leemhuis.info> References: <45AD12F9.3050204@leemhuis.info> Message-ID: <3e4ec4600701161142q16ac9f2dm94444b3cbce5a8bb@mail.gmail.com> On 1/16/07, Thorsten Leemhuis wrote: > None of the above name suggestions did receive a "yes, that's a really > great idea, I like it, all the people I asked love it, thus go for it" > from the people involved in the discussions. Thus with this mail we'd > like to ask the community for suggestions and its option: "Which of the > above names do you like most or do you have something better in mind > that sounds good, is not to easily confused with other stuff from this > world and roughly describes what the committee does?" Fedora HAT HAT = Head Action Team Sounds kind of superhero league-like but don't use it as an excuse for wearing more spandex. Just a suggestion :] /Mike From ajackson at redhat.com Tue Jan 16 19:36:17 2007 From: ajackson at redhat.com (Adam Jackson) Date: Tue, 16 Jan 2007 14:36:17 -0500 Subject: Name for a FESCo Successor? Suggestions anyone? In-Reply-To: <3e4ec4600701161142q16ac9f2dm94444b3cbce5a8bb@mail.gmail.com> References: <45AD12F9.3050204@leemhuis.info> <3e4ec4600701161142q16ac9f2dm94444b3cbce5a8bb@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <1168976177.3900.121.camel@localhost.localdomain> On Tue, 2007-01-16 at 14:42 -0500, Michael Wiktowy wrote: > On 1/16/07, Thorsten Leemhuis wrote: > > None of the above name suggestions did receive a "yes, that's a really > > great idea, I like it, all the people I asked love it, thus go for it" > > from the people involved in the discussions. Thus with this mail we'd > > like to ask the community for suggestions and its option: "Which of the > > above names do you like most or do you have something better in mind > > that sounds good, is not to easily confused with other stuff from this > > world and roughly describes what the committee does?" > > > Fedora HAT > HAT = Head Action Team > > Sounds kind of superhero league-like but don't use it as an excuse for > wearing more spandex. Justice League of Fedorica? - ajax From efgiovanini at gmail.com Tue Jan 16 20:19:22 2007 From: efgiovanini at gmail.com (Evandro Fernandes Giovanini) Date: Tue, 16 Jan 2007 18:19:22 -0200 Subject: plans for long term support releases? In-Reply-To: <200701161150.25519.jkeating@redhat.com> References: <200701160955.45165.jkeating@redhat.com> <1168961199.17228.12.camel@mccallum.corsepiu.local> <200701161150.25519.jkeating@redhat.com> Message-ID: <1168978762.3549.11.camel@debian> Em Ter, 2007-01-16 ?s 11:50 -0500, Jesse Keating escreveu: > > > > Now, the situation as it had persisted thoughout recent years is about > > to change again: Core seems (?) to be in progress of being opened. > > I.e. it's up to you+RH to pick up this opportunity to change something > > about "Legacy". I am offering to contribute to a "Legacy within Fedora" > > > > Unfortunately you and Warren seem to be choke this option once more. So > > be it - Your decision. > > That's because at least I don't see the need to try and hammer the square > Fedora peg into the LTS hole. Especially when there are nice round pegs like > RHEL with actual support and SLAs or CentOS with a large and vibrant > community, both of which are based on Fedora, that fit perfectly into that > LTS hole. Why continue beating a square peg into a round hole? > This is closely related to a marketing problem Fedora has - a lot of people think it's a beta distribution. Probably one of Fedora's biggest problems still. Personally I think it would be interesting to see the CentOS project merge with Fedora, to provide a Fedora "LTS" or whatever. Then all the people that complain about Fedora's lack of stability would be told to install a different Fedora product, instead of something from a totally separate project. I think it's obvious the demand for what CentOS provides is there, and there's more than enough people willing to contribute to it. Cheers, Evandro From skvidal at linux.duke.edu Tue Jan 16 20:22:53 2007 From: skvidal at linux.duke.edu (seth vidal) Date: Tue, 16 Jan 2007 15:22:53 -0500 Subject: plans for long term support releases? In-Reply-To: <1168978762.3549.11.camel@debian> References: <200701160955.45165.jkeating@redhat.com> <1168961199.17228.12.camel@mccallum.corsepiu.local> <200701161150.25519.jkeating@redhat.com> <1168978762.3549.11.camel@debian> Message-ID: <1168978973.27299.40.camel@cutter> On Tue, 2007-01-16 at 18:19 -0200, Evandro Fernandes Giovanini wrote: > Em Ter, 2007-01-16 ?s 11:50 -0500, Jesse Keating escreveu: > > > > > > Now, the situation as it had persisted thoughout recent years is about > > > to change again: Core seems (?) to be in progress of being opened. > > > I.e. it's up to you+RH to pick up this opportunity to change something > > > about "Legacy". I am offering to contribute to a "Legacy within Fedora" > > > > > > Unfortunately you and Warren seem to be choke this option once more. So > > > be it - Your decision. > > > > That's because at least I don't see the need to try and hammer the square > > Fedora peg into the LTS hole. Especially when there are nice round pegs like > > RHEL with actual support and SLAs or CentOS with a large and vibrant > > community, both of which are based on Fedora, that fit perfectly into that > > LTS hole. Why continue beating a square peg into a round hole? > > > > This is closely related to a marketing problem Fedora has - a lot of > people think it's a beta distribution. Probably one of Fedora's biggest > problems still. > > Personally I think it would be interesting to see the CentOS project > merge with Fedora, to provide a Fedora "LTS" or whatever. Then all the > people that complain about Fedora's lack of stability would be told to > install a different Fedora product, instead of something from a totally > separate project. > > I think it's obvious the demand for what CentOS provides is there, and > there's more than enough people willing to contribute to it. > Centos is a pure rebuild of the srpms released with RHEL. Then centos adds on tools in separate distros to support the distro. -sv From Axel.Thimm at ATrpms.net Tue Jan 16 20:25:51 2007 From: Axel.Thimm at ATrpms.net (Axel Thimm) Date: Tue, 16 Jan 2007 21:25:51 +0100 Subject: Name for a FESCo Successor? Suggestions anyone? In-Reply-To: <45AD12F9.3050204@leemhuis.info> References: <45AD12F9.3050204@leemhuis.info> Message-ID: <20070116202551.GG12544@neu.nirvana> On Tue, Jan 16, 2007 at 07:01:29PM +0100, Thorsten Leemhuis wrote: > But one issue is still totally undecided and needs to be solved soon: > What do we call that FESCo and Core Cabal successor? How about some more relaxed names like Fedora Elders or Fedora Masters stressing more the mentor and not so much (only) the technical part of it? It's also more fun than "Fedora Operational Board" (which is the stiff reality). -- Axel.Thimm at ATrpms.net -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 189 bytes Desc: not available URL: From dominik at greysector.net Tue Jan 16 20:32:20 2007 From: dominik at greysector.net (Dominik 'Rathann' Mierzejewski) Date: Tue, 16 Jan 2007 21:32:20 +0100 Subject: Name for a FESCo Successor? Suggestions anyone? In-Reply-To: <20070116202551.GG12544@neu.nirvana> References: <45AD12F9.3050204@leemhuis.info> <20070116202551.GG12544@neu.nirvana> Message-ID: <20070116203220.GA14296@ryvius.pekin.waw.pl> On Tuesday, 16 January 2007 at 21:25, Axel Thimm wrote: > On Tue, Jan 16, 2007 at 07:01:29PM +0100, Thorsten Leemhuis wrote: > > But one issue is still totally undecided and needs to be solved soon: > > What do we call that FESCo and Core Cabal successor? > > How about some more relaxed names like > > Fedora Elders > > or > > Fedora Masters +1 I like that one. > stressing more the mentor and not so much (only) the technical part of > it? It's also more fun than "Fedora Operational Board" (which is the > stiff reality). Down with the stiffness! ^_^ Regards, R. -- Fedora Extras contributor http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/DominikMierzejewski Livna contributor http://rpm.livna.org MPlayer developer http://mplayerhq.hu "Faith manages." -- Delenn to Lennier in Babylon 5:"Confessions and Lamentations" From nicolas.mailhot at laposte.net Tue Jan 16 21:16:52 2007 From: nicolas.mailhot at laposte.net (Nicolas Mailhot) Date: Tue, 16 Jan 2007 22:16:52 +0100 Subject: plans for long term support releases? In-Reply-To: <20070116170329.GB16028@wolff.to> References: <200701160856.24714.jkeating@redhat.com> <1168962647.17628.9.camel@hughsie-laptop> <20070116170329.GB16028@wolff.to> Message-ID: <1168982213.10253.4.camel@rousalka.dyndns.org> Le mardi 16 janvier 2007 ? 11:03 -0600, Bruno Wolff III a ?crit : > On Tue, Jan 16, 2007 at 15:50:47 +0000, > Richard Hughes wrote: > > > > I agree with this point. Fedora is a very aggressive distribution and > > trying to extend the lifetime by switching to a "try not to break > > anything by patching old versions" at the end of a distro life is wrong > > in my opinion. > > I think it would be much better to spend effort in making upgrading Fedora > easier and safer, so that people have less desire/need to stick with old > versions of Fedora. +10 -- Nicolas Mailhot -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: signature.asc Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 197 bytes Desc: Ceci est une partie de message num?riquement sign?e URL: From ianburrell at gmail.com Tue Jan 16 21:26:11 2007 From: ianburrell at gmail.com (Ian Burrell) Date: Tue, 16 Jan 2007 13:26:11 -0800 Subject: plans for long term support releases? In-Reply-To: <20070116170329.GB16028@wolff.to> References: <200701160856.24714.jkeating@redhat.com> <1168962647.17628.9.camel@hughsie-laptop> <20070116170329.GB16028@wolff.to> Message-ID: On 1/16/07, Bruno Wolff III wrote: > On Tue, Jan 16, 2007 at 15:50:47 +0000, > Richard Hughes wrote: > > > > I agree with this point. Fedora is a very aggressive distribution and > > trying to extend the lifetime by switching to a "try not to break > > anything by patching old versions" at the end of a distro life is wrong > > in my opinion. > > I think it would be much better to spend effort in making upgrading Fedora > easier and safer, so that people have less desire/need to stick with old > versions of Fedora. > Also, EPEL means that RHEL and Centos can get most of the extra packages from Fedora. Right now, there is a choice between bleeding edge but lots of packages, and stability and fewer ones. - Ian From notting at redhat.com Tue Jan 16 21:34:49 2007 From: notting at redhat.com (Bill Nottingham) Date: Tue, 16 Jan 2007 16:34:49 -0500 Subject: plans for long term support releases? In-Reply-To: References: <200701160856.24714.jkeating@redhat.com> <1168962647.17628.9.camel@hughsie-laptop> <20070116170329.GB16028@wolff.to> Message-ID: <20070116213449.GA7826@nostromo.devel.redhat.com> Ian Burrell (ianburrell at gmail.com) said: > Also, EPEL means that RHEL and Centos can get most of the extra > packages from Fedora. ... if someone is willing to maintain them for RHEL/CentOS. That may not be the case for all/most of the packages. Bill From tmus at tmus.dk Tue Jan 16 22:26:02 2007 From: tmus at tmus.dk (Thomas M Steenholdt) Date: Tue, 16 Jan 2007 23:26:02 +0100 Subject: plans for long term support releases? In-Reply-To: <200701160856.24714.jkeating@redhat.com> References: <200701160856.24714.jkeating@redhat.com> Message-ID: Jesse Keating wrote: > > There are a few things going against this. > > A) Fedora is about new software. Even in our released lines, we constantly > upgrade to new software to fix bugs, rather than backport. Would you try to > change this philosophy in your extended release? > > B) Fedora will now have a lifespan of 13~ months. Anything more and you're > dangerously close to a RHEL like product, or a RHEL spinoff like CentOS. > These release every 18~ months, and are supported for 7~ years. Wouldn't > that make a better Long Term Support distribution? Still based on Fedora... > > C) Community participation. We tried this once before with Legacy, folks > weren't exactly beating down our doors to help out doing just security > updates for say FC3/4. That's when interest really dwindled. Lots of people > said "Sure, I'd love to get those updates, but I have no time/skill to help > out." > > D) Sheer volume. The size of Core+Extras is staggering. Trying to track just > security issues across the entire thing is a full time job for at least one > person. Actually DOING anything about the security issues is probably > another full time job. Getting anybody to QA things is a joke, nobody wants > to run test updates on their stable system. All the fun QA happens out in > rawhide land pre-release. So you need maybe one or two full time QA folks > with access to a multitude of hardware/software configurations. If you don't > do this for all software, surely you'll piss people off by not updating the > software THEY care about. It will happen. > > These are valid points. I do think, however, that a lot if the people who will be installing the server spin of fedora would like the additional package stability. Certainly users *new* to Fedora would *expect* a server spin to have some other properties besides a specific package selection. Longer lifespan for example. I've heard mention so many times, that it's a problem, people don't see Fedora as a serious distribution for non-desktop/-testing use. I think that this is exactly the problem. We want to be bleeding edge, but at the same time it would be nice if an installed version could be trusted to not break too often because of updates. This is why I suggested an more stable (in terms of changes) LTS spin, perhaps, for every 2-4 normal Fedora releases, to provide a Fedora that could actually be used in these situations. (i know it is the way it is for a reason, so this is in no way an attempt to bad-mouth Fedora as it is. It's meant as a suggestion for further improvement). I also realize that providing such a release would be very much like RHEL and CentOS, but I got the impression that we were starting to open up and become more than the fast-rolling testbed distro that will be snapshot and stabilized into RHEL, in which case something like this could help us to reach more users/uses for Fedora. I think it could be great to have, and we could easily scope it to become doable. One LTS is released on F#/4 - so Fedora 8 could be branched into Fedora 8 LTS and recieve a lifespan of security-fixes only for three years or something. Again, these are only suggestions. /Thomas From nicolas.mailhot at laposte.net Tue Jan 16 22:46:06 2007 From: nicolas.mailhot at laposte.net (Nicolas Mailhot) Date: Tue, 16 Jan 2007 23:46:06 +0100 Subject: plans for long term support releases? In-Reply-To: References: <200701160856.24714.jkeating@redhat.com> Message-ID: <1168987566.10253.7.camel@rousalka.dyndns.org> Le mardi 16 janvier 2007 ? 23:26 +0100, Thomas M Steenholdt a ?crit : > I've heard mention so many times, that it's a problem, people don't see > Fedora as a serious distribution for non-desktop/-testing use. I think > that this is exactly the problem. We want to be bleeding edge, but at > the same time it would be nice if an installed version could be trusted > to not break too often because of updates. In the Fedora space that means making updates safer?, not finding ways to avoid updates. ? and supporting continuous yum updating with no anaconda stage -- Nicolas Mailhot -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: signature.asc Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 197 bytes Desc: Ceci est une partie de message num?riquement sign?e URL: From kevin.kofler at chello.at Tue Jan 16 22:49:28 2007 From: kevin.kofler at chello.at (Kevin Kofler) Date: Tue, 16 Jan 2007 22:49:28 +0000 (UTC) Subject: plans for long term support releases? References: Message-ID: Thomas M Steenholdt tmus.dk> writes: > Now that Core and Extras are going to be merged and the distro is > opening up to become even more (?) community driven, has anyone played > with the though of eventually releasing a long term support version of > Fedora? Isn't that exactly what RHEL/CentOS/Scientific Linux is? Kevin Kofler From naheemzaffar at gmail.com Tue Jan 16 22:52:27 2007 From: naheemzaffar at gmail.com (Naheem Zaffar) Date: Tue, 16 Jan 2007 22:52:27 +0000 Subject: plans for long term support releases? In-Reply-To: References: <200701160856.24714.jkeating@redhat.com> Message-ID: <3adc77210701161452l4378bd44p5e0d662fff7af04@mail.gmail.com> I would say keep 'proactive' support as it is, (Test 2 of Fn+2), but at the same time do not remove the older distro from the Fedora infrastructure for a little longer, allowing 'reactive' updates by packagers who care. It has been mentioned by one individual it would be easier on a single system to update packages than it was by havign two separate systems. Maybe this would give the impetus needed? Only remove the distro after a minimum of around 18 months, but make it clear that after around 13 months it is no longer proactively maintained. Ofcourse this will still leave issues over who will maintain major packages such as the kernel, which presumably require alot of work, since the current maintainers would have moved on. PS I myself am against having one version as LTS. To me it means it is better/more stable than the versions immediately before and after it. From mmcgrath at fedoraproject.org Tue Jan 16 22:54:00 2007 From: mmcgrath at fedoraproject.org (Mike McGrath) Date: Tue, 16 Jan 2007 16:54:00 -0600 Subject: plans for long term support releases? In-Reply-To: References: <200701160856.24714.jkeating@redhat.com> Message-ID: <3237e4410701161454v5fa218b8mc9107750bc0629b8@mail.gmail.com> On 1/16/07, Thomas M Steenholdt wrote: > Jesse Keating wrote: > > > These are valid points. > I do think, however, that a lot if the people who will be installing the > server spin of fedora would like the additional package stability. > Certainly users *new* to Fedora would *expect* a server spin to have > some other properties besides a specific package selection. Longer > lifespan for example. Anyone who thinks the server spin is going to be anything other than Fedora is sorely mistaken. Its just packages on a CD. The same packages that will be on the mirror. -Mike From zing at fastmail.fm Tue Jan 16 23:40:10 2007 From: zing at fastmail.fm (Zing) Date: Tue, 16 Jan 2007 18:40:10 -0500 Subject: plans for long term support releases? References: <200701160856.24714.jkeating@redhat.com> Message-ID: On Tue, 16 Jan 2007 23:26:02 +0100, Thomas M Steenholdt wrote: > This is why I suggested an more stable (in terms of changes) LTS spin, > perhaps, for every 2-4 normal Fedora releases, to provide a Fedora that > could actually be used in these situations. (i know it is the way it is > for a reason, so this is in no way an attempt to bad-mouth Fedora as it > is. It's meant as a suggestion for further improvement). I also realize > that providing such a release would be very much like RHEL and CentOS, but > I got the impression that we were starting to open up and become more than > the fast-rolling testbed distro that will be snapshot and stabilized into > RHEL, in which case something like this could help us to reach more > users/uses for Fedora. > > I think it could be great to have, and we could easily scope it to become > doable. One LTS is released on F#/4 - so Fedora 8 could be branched into > Fedora 8 LTS and recieve a lifespan of security-fixes only for three years > or something. Again, these are only suggestions. > > /Thomas I think there is nothing wrong with your ideas Thomas, but the problem is one of leadership, manpower, and resources. I think it's pretty clear that while @redhat.com won't get in the way of a Fedora "LTS" type release, it's certainly not going to throw resources into it.. they have RHEL for that. So it's really left up to the community to drive it through to fruition. And that's a stickler. A real life one. Also, when I think of an LTS type of releases, I think of critical bug-fixes too, not just security fixes. Can the fedora community realistically come up with knowledgeable people for kernel/glibc/gcc/lvm/xen/etc... I know I don't have the indepth knowledge to confidently make kernel backport fixes. So, I guess, at the end of the day, the people who really needed the above "moved on" so to speak. Maybe because of lack of leadership? Who knows. In the future maybe we can clone jesse keating and then we can have our cake and eat it too. From sundaram at fedoraproject.org Wed Jan 17 00:04:43 2007 From: sundaram at fedoraproject.org (Rahul Sundaram) Date: Wed, 17 Jan 2007 05:34:43 +0530 Subject: plans for long term support releases? In-Reply-To: <3adc77210701161452l4378bd44p5e0d662fff7af04@mail.gmail.com> References: <200701160856.24714.jkeating@redhat.com> <3adc77210701161452l4378bd44p5e0d662fff7af04@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <45AD681B.6060405@fedoraproject.org> Naheem Zaffar wrote: > I would say keep 'proactive' support as it is, (Test 2 of Fn+2), but > at the same time do not remove the older distro from the Fedora > infrastructure for a little longer, allowing 'reactive' updates by > packagers who care. > > It has been mentioned by one individual it would be easier on a single > system to update packages than it was by havign two separate systems. > Maybe this would give the impetus needed? > > Only remove the distro after a minimum of around 18 months, but make > it clear that after around 13 months it is no longer proactively > maintained. > > Ofcourse this will still leave issues over who will maintain major > packages such as the kernel, which presumably require alot of work, > since the current maintainers would have moved on. That is precisely the problem. Either everyone decides to commit to providing update for a specific period of time or not. Allowing some packagers to provide updates while others just dont care wont work primarily because of setting the wrong expectations and due to potential security issues with this arrangement. Anyway, we are just beginning to merge core and extras. Discussing any substantial changes right away seems a bit premature. Rahul From khc at pm.waw.pl Wed Jan 17 01:14:46 2007 From: khc at pm.waw.pl (Krzysztof Halasa) Date: Wed, 17 Jan 2007 02:14:46 +0100 Subject: plans for long term support releases? In-Reply-To: (Thomas M. Steenholdt's message of "Tue, 16 Jan 2007 23:26:02 +0100") References: <200701160856.24714.jkeating@redhat.com> Message-ID: Thomas M Steenholdt writes: > I've heard mention so many times, that it's a problem, people don't > see Fedora as a serious distribution for non-desktop/-testing use. I > think that this is exactly the problem. I don't think so. It's a problem with their vision, Fedora is a serious distro for almost any use if you don't need paid support. And if you need then Fedora alone isn't for you, it's that simple (I'm sure you can buy support for Fedora, though). > We want to be bleeding edge, definitely > but at the same time it would be nice if an installed version could be > trusted to not break too often because of updates. Does it break too often? Not for me. Yes, something sometimes break but one thing once a ~ year is IMHO acceptable, and I wouldn't expect lower ratio from any distribution, no vendor can test everything * everything matrix. > This is why I suggested an more stable (in terms of changes) LTS spin, > perhaps, for every 2-4 normal Fedora releases, to provide a Fedora > that could actually be used in these situations. So you don't want bleeding edge -> GOTO RHEL, SLES, Fedora legacy, Debian stable etc. > I also realize that providing such a release would be > very much like RHEL and CentOS, but I got the impression that we were > starting to open up and become more than the fast-rolling testbed > distro that will be snapshot and stabilized into RHEL, I never considered Fedora snapshot or a testbed. It's just bleeding edge - you have newest versions, no need to compile them yourself, it's just less work. Bugs and breakage? Happens with self-compiled software, too (perhaps more frequently due to user's errors). > in which case > something like this could help us to reach more users/uses for Fedora. I'm afraid Fedora can't be bleeding edge and not bleeding edge simultaneously. -- Krzysztof Halasa From khc at pm.waw.pl Wed Jan 17 01:17:28 2007 From: khc at pm.waw.pl (Krzysztof Halasa) Date: Wed, 17 Jan 2007 02:17:28 +0100 Subject: plans for long term support releases? In-Reply-To: <1168987566.10253.7.camel@rousalka.dyndns.org> (Nicolas Mailhot's message of "Tue, 16 Jan 2007 23:46:06 +0100") References: <200701160856.24714.jkeating@redhat.com> <1168987566.10253.7.camel@rousalka.dyndns.org> Message-ID: Nicolas Mailhot writes: > In the Fedora space that means making updates safer?, not finding ways > to avoid updates. > > ? and supporting continuous yum updating with no anaconda stage Certainly, we should be able to easily upgrade from version to version without rebooting (not counting kernel etc. upgrades). -- Krzysztof Halasa From kevin.verma at gmail.com Wed Jan 17 01:24:42 2007 From: kevin.verma at gmail.com (Anuj Verma (Kevin)) Date: Wed, 17 Jan 2007 06:54:42 +0530 Subject: Fedora for UMPC, tablets, PDA etc. ? In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: My earlier post was missing references, so I am posting a mention of few pointers : UMPC - http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Umpc Nokia Devices 770 & N800, definitely not UMPC but should be possible targets for a Fedora port - http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nokia_770 http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nokia_N800 I am still eager to read any positive or negative feedback on this. Cheers, Kevin On 1/13/07, Anuj Verma (Kevin) wrote: > Hello > > Reading the below(bottom) mentioned story I am curious to know more > point of views, "FC6 shrunk to 150MB" ! > > This time while Fedora 7, is being planned and discussed and while UMPC > is getting lot popular, I am just curious to know point of views here, > if this is a good time for Fedora to also host a UMPC project ? > > Does it seems Fedora be good for UMPC types example, Orgami, Nokai 770/800 etc. > > Hoping that the lessons and improvements gained out of OLPC can be put > out for a wider community cattering, development & cross pollination. > > Regards, > Kevin > > -- > > http://www.linuxtoday.com/infrastructure/2007010902326NWHWEV > > "The software is based on Fedora Cora 6, put on an diet to reduce it to > 150 MB, and leverages Python heavily. According to Bletsas, both > Microsoft (WinCE) and Apple (OS X) offered their operating systems, but > neither fit the footprint or security requirements that the XO demanded. > In addition, the closed-source nature of those operating systems wasn't > a good fit to the OLPC philosophy. > > The application environment looks nothing like a typical X-Window GUI > that you or I have ever seen. Written menus are totally replaced with > icons. In one example screen, the child can view all the other meshed > XOs around them (the mesh is good point to point to about 600 meters), > and see what activities the other children are involved in. Almost all > activities can be done collaboratively. So, for example, multiple > children can work on the same document or browse the web together. The > distributions are fully open source, and can be downloaded and played > with now at laptop.org. Also included will be a Gecko-based browser that > Bletsas told me should be capable of displaying Flash-enabled web > pages." > From jkeating at redhat.com Wed Jan 17 01:40:12 2007 From: jkeating at redhat.com (Jesse Keating) Date: Tue, 16 Jan 2007 20:40:12 -0500 Subject: plans for long term support releases? In-Reply-To: References: <200701160856.24714.jkeating@redhat.com> Message-ID: <200701162040.12100.jkeating@redhat.com> On Tuesday 16 January 2007 17:26, Thomas M Steenholdt wrote: > This is why I suggested an more stable (in terms of changes) LTS spin, > perhaps, for every 2-4 normal Fedora releases, to provide a Fedora that > could actually be used in these situations. (i know it is the way it is > for a reason, so this is in no way an attempt to bad-mouth Fedora as it > is. It's meant as a suggestion for further improvement). I also realize > that providing such a release would be very much like RHEL and CentOS, > but I got the impression that we were starting to open up and become > more than the fast-rolling testbed distro that will be snapshot and > stabilized into RHEL, in which case something like this could help us to > reach more users/uses for Fedora. So every 2 to 4 releases of Fedora, call something a LTS release, do more QA and different update styles for it, support it for a long time, and market it as the Fedora for production use. Wait, how is this _not_ RHEL/CentOS? -- Jesse Keating Release Engineer: Fedora -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 189 bytes Desc: not available URL: From dlutter at redhat.com Wed Jan 17 01:58:22 2007 From: dlutter at redhat.com (David Lutterkort) Date: Tue, 16 Jan 2007 17:58:22 -0800 Subject: Ruby and Rails packages (was: Fedora 7) In-Reply-To: References: <20070104195032.GE4693@nostromo.devel.redhat.com> Message-ID: <1168999102.2932.10.camel@localhost.localdomain> On Tue, 2007-01-16 at 07:15 +0000, Leo wrote: > It will also be good to finalize the ruby and rails packing guidelines > so that people can start packing things. The ruby guidelines have been around for a while [1]; what we don't have is guidelines on packaging rubygems. That's a little more difficult since gems implement their own packaging system, and making sure that rpm-packaged gems and plain gems interoperate nicely requires some thought (and work) In addition, gems are not suitable for distributing binary extensions since they lack any semblance of multilib support. Having said all that, I have packaged ruby-activerecord and ruby-activesupport; one day, I swear I'll package the rest of rails, but I'd love to see somebody beat me to it. David [1] http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Packaging/Ruby From jkeating at redhat.com Wed Jan 17 02:20:31 2007 From: jkeating at redhat.com (Jesse Keating) Date: Tue, 16 Jan 2007 21:20:31 -0500 Subject: plans for long term support releases? In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <200701162120.31450.jkeating@redhat.com> On Tuesday 16 January 2007 18:40, Zing wrote: > In the future maybe we can clone jesse keating and then we can > have our cake and eat it too. Nah, that will just mean my wife will assign me 2x as many "honey-do"s to do. -- Jesse Keating Release Engineer: Fedora -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 189 bytes Desc: not available URL: From naoki at valuecommerce.com Wed Jan 17 02:37:08 2007 From: naoki at valuecommerce.com (Naoki) Date: Wed, 17 Jan 2007 11:37:08 +0900 Subject: Fedora 7 - USB Install method - Everything ISO. In-Reply-To: <200701160942.32642.lamont@gurulabs.com> References: <20070104195032.GE4693@nostromo.devel.redhat.com> <20070116042459.GA22128@nostromo.devel.redhat.com> <1168961816.14508.8.camel@aglarond.local> <200701160942.32642.lamont@gurulabs.com> Message-ID: <1169001428.29098.12.camel@dragon.valuecommerce.ne.jp> > Agree. But perhaps it's not an ISO, but just a "usb-disk.cpio" that's 8GB+ > (whatever) in size. That could be downloaded and extracted to wherever, be > it a USB disk or a file server (NFS, etc.). The point of an ISO, is you can "dd" it and have a bootable device in one step. Just an ease of use thing really. Although see comments below .. > Agreed. For those environments, network installs typically make much more > sense. Even on my home systems, I do network installs when I can because > it's typically faster and easier than swapping CDs or burning DVDs. I've often argued about dropping ISOs altogether in favor of just network installs. That tends to catch of lot of flack from the "I download at the office and install at home", or, "I live in X where broad band is too costly" crowds. All of which are valid points I might add. So if we're making ISOs already, how about one that would be far more practical than DVD for many people. With a large ISO for other storage mediums I envisage something like this : * Download it. * "dd" it to device. * Write my custom kickstart file. * Go to server / home box / whatever * Plug in / Boot / Go play with the dogs. And changing the kickstart file doesn't require more cost (media). The same could probably be done by just copying the mirror to a removable device, making it bootable etc, but that's not a currently documented install method. > However, to set up a network installation with all available packages, I would > probably just continue to create my own mirror of the released packages and > of the updates repo. But I agree that having a single file to download for > initial setup of such file servers would be advantageous. It could also be > the "roll-your-own-fedora-spin-kit" with all fedora packages + the spin tools > (to build DVD and CD ISOs). Now here is where I really start to like the idea. I also very much agree with the point made by Mr Katz when he says "I'd prefer to have as few different copies of the "same" bits as possible". If there was a simple tool could download selected packages (and package groups) from selected repos, and then 'burn' it to a bootable device it would be the holy grail. It would allow totally flexible/custom builds. Although it's nothing that can't already be done with a network install setup, but as discussed that isn't always feasible for people. Part of 'system-config-kickstart' ? From jkeating at redhat.com Wed Jan 17 02:42:11 2007 From: jkeating at redhat.com (Jesse Keating) Date: Tue, 16 Jan 2007 21:42:11 -0500 Subject: Fedora 7 - USB Install method - Everything ISO. In-Reply-To: <1169001428.29098.12.camel@dragon.valuecommerce.ne.jp> References: <20070104195032.GE4693@nostromo.devel.redhat.com> <200701160942.32642.lamont@gurulabs.com> <1169001428.29098.12.camel@dragon.valuecommerce.ne.jp> Message-ID: <200701162142.11782.jkeating@redhat.com> On Tuesday 16 January 2007 21:37, Naoki wrote: > If there was a simple tool could download selected packages (and package > groups) from selected repos, and then 'burn' it to a bootable device it > would be the holy grail. It would allow totally flexible/custom builds. > Although it's nothing that can't already be done with a network install > setup, but as discussed that isn't always feasible for people. http://hosted.fedoraproject.org/projects/pungi -- Jesse Keating Release Engineer: Fedora -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 189 bytes Desc: not available URL: From stickster at gmail.com Wed Jan 17 02:47:21 2007 From: stickster at gmail.com (Paul W. Frields) Date: Tue, 16 Jan 2007 21:47:21 -0500 Subject: Smarter install - Headless In-Reply-To: <200701160959.31570.lamont@gurulabs.com> References: <000001c7392a$f87ed5e0$020aa8c0@a18> <200701160922.33777.lamont@gurulabs.com> <003f01c7398c$b9f60020$020aa8c0@a18> <200701160959.31570.lamont@gurulabs.com> Message-ID: <1169002041.11984.15.camel@localhost.localdomain> On Tue, 2007-01-16 at 09:59 -0700, Lamont Peterson wrote: > On Tuesday 16 January 2007 09:38am, Jerry Williams wrote: > > and they try really hard not to > > use nfs if possible. > > Why? What's wrong with NFS? > > Network installs via either HTTP or FTP take longer (i.e. are slower) than via > NFS. Although IIRC, NFS over TCP is a must. -- Paul W. Frields, RHCE http://paul.frields.org/ gpg fingerprint: 3DA6 A0AC 6D58 FEC4 0233 5906 ACDB C937 BD11 3717 Fedora Project Board: http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Board Fedora Docs Project: http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/DocsProject -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: signature.asc Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 189 bytes Desc: This is a digitally signed message part URL: From mharris at mharris.ca Wed Jan 17 03:03:54 2007 From: mharris at mharris.ca (Mike A. Harris) Date: Tue, 16 Jan 2007 22:03:54 -0500 Subject: plans for long term support releases? In-Reply-To: References: <200701160856.24714.jkeating@redhat.com> Message-ID: <45AD921A.4020505@mharris.ca> Thomas M Steenholdt wrote: > This is why I suggested an more stable (in terms of changes) LTS spin, > perhaps, for every 2-4 normal Fedora releases, to provide a Fedora that > could actually be used in these situations. There is already. It's called "Red Hat Enterprise Linux". There are alternatives as well based upon rebuilding the SRPMS from RHEL. The only difference is that they do not have the "Fedora" brand name tacked onto them and they're physically built on computers elsewhere. To the best of my understanding, all the rebuilding work is also done by people whom contribute directly or indirectly to the Fedora Project in an ongoing basis in some manner. So, what people are asking for _already_ exists, just under a different name. To duplicate _their_ existing effort would be a waste of resources to whoever was doing the work. But then that's the problem isn't it... Nobody _wants_ to do the work, rather they want _someone_else_ to do the work. But those someone elses that could do the work - are already doing the work, and naming it CentOS, or one of the other similar projects out there. Of course anyone out there with a strong desire to have an actual Fedora Core release "maintained" (not supported - Fedora is unsupported) for n years, can always go right ahead and start doing just that. It would appear such a person does not exist however. So, it appears that there are only people who want long term Fedora maintenance out there, but zero, or close to zero people with enough motivation and/or desire to actually do it. It doesn't come as much of a surprise however, at least not to me. What motivation does someone _have_ to start such a project? We could certainly theorize about that, and I have my own theories of potential reasons why someone could in theory want to do that. In particular the "I'll do it to scratch a personal itch, because I want to use it myself" theory is likely the most common one why people get involved in such things. For small projects that are manageable by a single person, this theory works very well, and is probably the main factor responsible for the plethora of OSS in existance in the first place. As the amount of work a potential project requires to be successful increases however, the likelyhood of a single person working alone on it being successful doing so decreases at an inversely proportional rate. A large enough project more or less dictates that multiple people working together in an organized fashion as a team toward a common goal is required, and that the motivations of each individual are the same or at least similar enough for them to come together and do something. I say the motivation for a project like this _has_ to come directly from the population who wants to use it. There could be some minor exceptions to this rule, but any exceptions don't break the rule. (ie: someone willing to kindly maintain a few packages they don't even use is a possibility, motivated simply to help out.) So while we often can witness many people stating how much they desire to _have_ a specific Fedora release receive long term maintenance updates, we almost _never_ see anyone actually want to do all of the work on their own, and we almost never see anyone actually put effort into trying to start off such a project and gather and lead others whom are like minded. The Fedora Legacy project is the closest anyone has gotten, and while it's had a shaky life, it's done some good stuff too. Another factor to consider, after considering all of the above, is that should anyone out there be motivated enough to actually grab the bull by the horns, and to try to gather like minded individuals, they also need to be prepared to handle the plethora of community oriented discussion and feedback they'll almost certainly receive, both from like-minded individuals, and people with very different opinions. A successful project leader could expect a lot of public discussion/debate/flamewars/etc. both from the community at large, as well as contributors and potential contributors. (I've yet to see a project with more than a small number of people ever agree on decisions about even the most minor things the first time around.) Then, once things get going, you have to realize that the vast majority of users out there to which you are likely to receive any feedback from, are ones who don't like something. Expect lots of negative feedback, thankless emails from people with attitudes, etc. and be prepared to take it all with a coke and a smile, and to continually focus on why you did all of this in the first place. Every decision you make, someone out there will be displeased with, or would have done it another way for one reason or another. Expect them to tell you this. Oh, you're likely to get good feedback from friendly users who love what you're doing and are eternally grateful too. Those people will make your day on the rare occurances they shine through the massive wall of negative energy surrounding every move you make. So why aren't people jumping up and down to go ahead and do this now? Volunteer to maintain Fedora for 4 years on your own for the community, then run out and get a good therapist and some prescription medication. Everything will be alright, I promise. ;o) From jwboyer at jdub.homelinux.org Wed Jan 17 03:11:36 2007 From: jwboyer at jdub.homelinux.org (Josh Boyer) Date: Tue, 16 Jan 2007 21:11:36 -0600 Subject: Name for a FESCo Successor? Suggestions anyone? In-Reply-To: <45AD12F9.3050204@leemhuis.info> References: <45AD12F9.3050204@leemhuis.info> Message-ID: <1169003496.3159.110.camel@vader.jdub.homelinux.org> > But one issue is still totally undecided and needs to be solved soon: > What do we call that FESCo and Core Cabal successor? The "E" in FESCo > until now stood for Extras, but soon Extras will vanish due to the > merge. So hat do we want to call it? Suggestions that came up: I like "the Cabal". Simple, descriptive, and most importantly not another acronym?. josh ? I have been inundated with TLAs for entirely too long. ? ? Thorsten, look I figured it out! :) From mark at mitre.org Wed Jan 17 03:53:07 2007 From: mark at mitre.org (Mark) Date: Tue, 16 Jan 2007 22:53:07 -0500 Subject: Fedora Core 7 - Compiz vs Beryl In-Reply-To: <1168311116.3309.18.camel@dawkins> References: <20070104212706.44899.qmail@web52412.mail.yahoo.com> <1167957394.2172.46.camel@dragon.valuecommerce.ne.jp> <45A2A5DE.6070308@mitre.org> <1168311116.3309.18.camel@dawkins> Message-ID: <45AD9DA3.7010004@mitre.org> >> Add: >> Beryl supports dual head xinerama properly. >> Compiz does not. >> >> Compiz is preferred here otherwise, but no dual head is a show stopper. >> >> Mark >> > > Beryl supports this via a nasty hack as I'm to understand. Dave Reveman > opposed including it in Compiz as he was working on a non-hack solution, > which is present in the development version of Compiz (currently > available in your Fedora Development repo and thus in F7). Ergo, a > complete non-issue unless you have bugzilla entries to show me wrong? > > - David Nielsen > > Checked Fedora Dev aka Compiz 0.3.4 and confirm dual head works for me now, thank you. -Mark From naoki at valuecommerce.com Wed Jan 17 04:35:38 2007 From: naoki at valuecommerce.com (Naoki) Date: Wed, 17 Jan 2007 13:35:38 +0900 Subject: Fedora 7 - USB Install method - Everything ISO. In-Reply-To: <200701162142.11782.jkeating@redhat.com> References: <20070104195032.GE4693@nostromo.devel.redhat.com> <200701160942.32642.lamont@gurulabs.com> <1169001428.29098.12.camel@dragon.valuecommerce.ne.jp> <200701162142.11782.jkeating@redhat.com> Message-ID: <1169008538.29098.30.camel@dragon.valuecommerce.ne.jp> On Tue, 2007-01-16 at 21:42 -0500, Jesse Keating wrote: > On Tuesday 16 January 2007 21:37, Naoki wrote: > > If there was a simple tool could download selected packages (and package > > groups) from selected repos, and then 'burn' it to a bootable device it > > would be the holy grail. It would allow totally flexible/custom builds. > > Although it's nothing that can't already be done with a network install > > setup, but as discussed that isn't always feasible for people. > > http://hosted.fedoraproject.org/projects/pungi Aha!! That sounds wonderful : "We'll need to do five basic tasks: 1) Gather packages from repos into a directory tree 2) Run anaconda tools (buildinstall) on said directory tree 3) Split tree into CD iso size chunks 4) Create isos of the chunks 5) Sanity check the tree" I'd suggest variable sized ISO chunks rather than CD specific, but I understand it's pretty much a work in progress. In the interim though, see any merit in an everything ISO? Or is that just too big for mirrors and networks to deal with? By the sounds of things there is an non-documented alternative of grab mirror, stick on storage device and (somehow) make your own bootable, installable image that functions like a DVD. If anybody knows the "somehow" bit I'd love to know and would be happy to document. From arjan at fenrus.demon.nl Wed Jan 17 04:51:37 2007 From: arjan at fenrus.demon.nl (Arjan van de Ven) Date: Tue, 16 Jan 2007 20:51:37 -0800 Subject: plans for long term support releases? In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <1169009497.3457.48.camel@laptopd505.fenrus.org> On Tue, 2007-01-16 at 07:04 +0100, Thomas M Steenholdt wrote: > Now that Core and Extras are going to be merged and the distro is > opening up to become even more (?) community driven, has anyone played > with the though of eventually releasing a long term support version of > Fedora? > > It could be a based on a staple snapshot of Fedora 7 + 4 months worth of > updates or whatever, at this point I'm more interested in hearing about > the idea than the details, which will surely follow, if i'm not the only > one who think this could be a good idea. Especially now that we're going > to do special server spins etc... > > Just a thought (hope this was not brought up ages ago and I just missed it) so one question: how many packages are YOU willing to be the person for that keeps up with the security stuff? (it should be packages you're familiar with since security backports are generally quite hard, and incrementally harder the older the package).... if the answer is "eh none" then you are giving the same answer a LOT of people do. THere's nothing wrong with that per se, but there IS something wrong with the "but I want other people to do it for me. For free. Without even saying thanks". Fedora Legacy may have had it's faults, but there is also a fundamental contradiction in it. A lot of people like fedora for it's latest stuff. And there's people who just want a distro stable and keep using it. The first group generally moves to a new FC release within 3 months after it being released. Fair enough, and this is actually quite a really large group. Even in the RHL days (with 2+ years of support), 90% of the users moved to a new release within that timeframe. The other 10% wants things to "just work", and this is pretty much the exact same crowd who only want stable tested packages. So.. your testing base for updates is... exactly zero. (This problem isn't unique to fedora. For example the 2.4 kernel series has exactly this same problem; nobody who still uses 2.4 wants to test prereleases) What is worse, usually developers (either upstream coders or package maintainers) do not fall in this 10%, they are more in the 90% by *far*. And for the part they're in the 10%, they don't want those systems unstable/testing either... My conclusion on this (and I've been outside a distro for a while now, looking at the entire ecosystem from a distance) is that you either 1) have people paid to do the work or 2) have longer release cycles (with one in development and one in maintenance) debian follows the 2) model.. RHEL, SLES and Ubuntu the 1) model. Thing is... if I ask YOU the question, how many dollars are you willing to pay for 6 extra months of maintenance, I can guess the answer with a dollar or two :) Note that this includes QA; without QA this entire thing is worthless, since if update packages break more than once for the 10% that cares, they will yell, scream and claim the long term support effectively is worthless and doesn't exist anyway. From jkeating at redhat.com Wed Jan 17 04:54:29 2007 From: jkeating at redhat.com (Jesse Keating) Date: Tue, 16 Jan 2007 23:54:29 -0500 Subject: Fedora 7 - USB Install method - Everything ISO. In-Reply-To: <1169008538.29098.30.camel@dragon.valuecommerce.ne.jp> References: <20070104195032.GE4693@nostromo.devel.redhat.com> <200701162142.11782.jkeating@redhat.com> <1169008538.29098.30.camel@dragon.valuecommerce.ne.jp> Message-ID: <200701162354.33061.jkeating@redhat.com> On Tuesday 16 January 2007 23:35, Naoki wrote: > I'd suggest variable sized ISO chunks rather than CD specific, but I > understand it's pretty much a work in progress. Well, presumably one could make the "CD Size" configurable, so you could ask for 4gig size "CDs" or whatnot. Right now I think it is hardcoded, but a sensable patch to make it a semi-hidden option would be acceptable to me. > In the interim though, see any merit in an everything ISO? ?Or is that > just too big for mirrors and networks to deal with? ? Mostly too big for mirrors, for the little use it would be for. -- Jesse Keating Release Engineer: Fedora -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 189 bytes Desc: not available URL: From jkeating at redhat.com Wed Jan 17 05:00:43 2007 From: jkeating at redhat.com (Jesse Keating) Date: Wed, 17 Jan 2007 00:00:43 -0500 Subject: [Fedora-ia64-list] Re: anaconda-runtime error In-Reply-To: <1168937827.15989.250.camel@ymzhang> References: <1168319262.15989.211.camel@ymzhang> <1168569442.15989.240.camel@ymzhang> <1168937827.15989.250.camel@ymzhang> Message-ID: <200701170000.43570.jkeating@redhat.com> On Tuesday 16 January 2007 03:57, Zhang, Yanmin wrote: > > ------log of nfs installation exception------ > > Traceback (most recent call first): > > ? File "/usr/lib/anaconda/textw/network_text.py", line 177, in runScreen > > ? ? self.ipv4Cb = Checkbox(_("Enable IPv4 support"), net.useIPv4) > > ? File "/usr/lib/anaconda/textw/network_text.py", line 449, in __call__ > > ? ? showonboot) > > ? File "/usr/lib/anaconda/text.py", line 514, in run > > ? ? rc = win(self.screen, instance) > > ? File "/usr/bin/anaconda", line 970, in > > ? ? anaconda.intf.run(anaconda) > > AttributeError: Network instance has no attribute 'useIPv4' > > The root cause is class Network in file network.py puts useIPv4/6 as per > NetworkDevice attributes while class NetworkDeviceWindow still thinks > useIPv4/6 are net attributes. Oh, now I remember this. This only happens in text mode. If you do a graphical install (even remote VNC) you should be able to get past this. -- Jesse Keating Release Engineer: Fedora -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 189 bytes Desc: not available URL: From arjan at fenrus.demon.nl Wed Jan 17 05:00:02 2007 From: arjan at fenrus.demon.nl (Arjan van de Ven) Date: Tue, 16 Jan 2007 21:00:02 -0800 Subject: plans for long term support releases? In-Reply-To: <45ACF2C9.1040800@iinet.net.au> References: <200701160856.24714.jkeating@redhat.com> <45ACF2C9.1040800@iinet.net.au> Message-ID: <1169010002.3457.55.camel@laptopd505.fenrus.org> > > A) Fedora is about new software. Even in our released lines, we constantly > > upgrade to new software to fix bugs, rather than backport. Would you try to > > change this philosophy in your extended release? > No. But I guess what you are saying is that without a truly wide range > of test machines / configurations to test updates on before release, > then backporting fixes is the safest way to go, yet most time expensive > to perform ? but it's NOT the safest way. By far. Backporting is HARD. The first few months you'll be fine, because the upstream code is close to yours. After about 6 months (in the kernel, other projects may vary) it gets a HECK of a lot harder, and often the backports get really awkward and risky. Guess why the RHEL folks struggle so much.... you need some SERIOUS QA on backports, even more than on version upgrades. From jwilliam at xmission.com Wed Jan 17 05:59:08 2007 From: jwilliam at xmission.com (Jerry Williams) Date: Tue, 16 Jan 2007 22:59:08 -0700 Subject: Fedora 7 - USB Install method - Everything ISO. In-Reply-To: <200701162354.33061.jkeating@redhat.com> References: <20070104195032.GE4693@nostromo.devel.redhat.com><200701162142.11782.jkeating@redhat.com><1169008538.29098.30.camel@dragon.valuecommerce.ne.jp> <200701162354.33061.jkeating@redhat.com> Message-ID: <003401c739fc$9a8aadb0$020aa8c0@a18> > -----Original Message----- > From: fedora-devel-list-bounces at redhat.com [mailto:fedora-devel-list- > bounces at redhat.com] On Behalf Of Jesse Keating > Sent: Tuesday, January 16, 2007 9:54 PM > To: fedora-devel-list at redhat.com > Subject: Re: Fedora 7 - USB Install method - Everything ISO. > > On Tuesday 16 January 2007 23:35, Naoki wrote: > > I'd suggest variable sized ISO chunks rather than CD specific, but I > > understand it's pretty much a work in progress. > > Well, presumably one could make the "CD Size" configurable, so you could > ask > for 4gig size "CDs" or whatnot. Right now I think it is hardcoded, but a > sensable patch to make it a semi-hidden option would be acceptable to me. > > > In the interim though, see any merit in an everything ISO? ?Or is that > > just too big for mirrors and networks to deal with? > > Mostly too big for mirrors, for the little use it would be for. > > -- > Jesse Keating > Release Engineer: Fedora I looked at putting Linux on a USB flash drive and from what I have read they don't always work. And if you get larger than 1 Gig then you have problems or have to have multiple partitions. Most things I have read want to use FAT16 for compatibility. So great idea, just don't think the hardware is that stable/compatible. Here is a Knoppix how to http://www.knoppix.net/wiki/Bootable_USB_Key I would think this would fit better into the Fedora Live CD project. The only other thought I have is maybe to get around the boot problem is to use the small boot cd and then do a hard drive install from the usb device. So you could install on old hardware that doesn't boot from usb and have the ability to change the content on the usb device. From david at lovesunix.net Wed Jan 17 06:31:28 2007 From: david at lovesunix.net (David Nielsen) Date: Wed, 17 Jan 2007 07:31:28 +0100 Subject: plans for long term support releases? In-Reply-To: <200701162120.31450.jkeating@redhat.com> References: <200701162120.31450.jkeating@redhat.com> Message-ID: <1169015488.3204.167.camel@dawkins> tir, 16 01 2007 kl. 21:20 -0500, skrev Jesse Keating: > On Tuesday 16 January 2007 18:40, Zing wrote: > > In the future maybe we can clone jesse keating and then we can > > have our cake and eat it too. > > Nah, that will just mean my wife will assign me 2x as many "honey-do"s to do. Bah, it works for Ingo Molnar. - David -- "Ridicule is the only weapon that can be used against unintelligible propositions. Ideas must be distinct before reason can act upon them.? -Thomas Jefferson -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: signature.asc Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 189 bytes Desc: Dette er en digitalt underskrevet brevdel URL: From seg at haxxed.com Wed Jan 17 07:29:52 2007 From: seg at haxxed.com (Callum Lerwick) Date: Wed, 17 Jan 2007 01:29:52 -0600 Subject: Name for a FESCo Successor? Suggestions anyone? In-Reply-To: <20070116202551.GG12544@neu.nirvana> References: <45AD12F9.3050204@leemhuis.info> <20070116202551.GG12544@neu.nirvana> Message-ID: <1169018993.28538.0.camel@localhost.localdomain> On Tue, 2007-01-16 at 21:25 +0100, Axel Thimm wrote: > On Tue, Jan 16, 2007 at 07:01:29PM +0100, Thorsten Leemhuis wrote: > > But one issue is still totally undecided and needs to be solved soon: > > What do we call that FESCo and Core Cabal successor? > > How about some more relaxed names like > > Fedora Elders > > or > > Fedora Masters The Fedora Jedi Council. -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: signature.asc Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 189 bytes Desc: This is a digitally signed message part URL: From mharris at mharris.ca Wed Jan 17 07:57:26 2007 From: mharris at mharris.ca (Mike A. Harris) Date: Wed, 17 Jan 2007 02:57:26 -0500 Subject: Name for a FESCo Successor? Suggestions anyone? In-Reply-To: <1169018993.28538.0.camel@localhost.localdomain> References: <45AD12F9.3050204@leemhuis.info> <20070116202551.GG12544@neu.nirvana> <1169018993.28538.0.camel@localhost.localdomain> Message-ID: <45ADD6E6.4070405@mharris.ca> Callum Lerwick wrote: > On Tue, 2007-01-16 at 21:25 +0100, Axel Thimm wrote: >> On Tue, Jan 16, 2007 at 07:01:29PM +0100, Thorsten Leemhuis wrote: >>> But one issue is still totally undecided and needs to be solved soon: >>> What do we call that FESCo and Core Cabal successor? >> How about some more relaxed names like >> >> Fedora Elders >> >> or >> >> Fedora Masters > > The Fedora Jedi Council. +1 Perfect! From seg at haxxed.com Wed Jan 17 07:58:41 2007 From: seg at haxxed.com (Callum Lerwick) Date: Wed, 17 Jan 2007 01:58:41 -0600 Subject: Build rescue image for USB sticks In-Reply-To: <20070115083615.1274d0ab@banea.int.addix.net> References: <20070115083615.1274d0ab@banea.int.addix.net> Message-ID: <1169020721.28538.7.camel@localhost.localdomain> On Mon, 2007-01-15 at 08:36 +0100, Ralf Ertzinger wrote: > Hi. > > How much work would be involved to create a rescue image that could be > written to an USB flash drive (like the one in os/images/diskboot.img), > so that a complete rescue system could be booted from the stick, without > need for network access? > > USB media are pretty cheap these days :) I just tried this. You can mount the rescue CD image, copy everything in the isolinux directory to the root of a FAT formatted flash drive, rename isolinux.cfg to syslinux.cfg and install syslinux. It'll boot up, but I wasn't able to figure out how to make it find the stage2.img on the flash drive. It'll ask you where the install CDs are, and selecting the flash drive does nothing. -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: signature.asc Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 189 bytes Desc: This is a digitally signed message part URL: From tmus at tmus.dk Wed Jan 17 08:41:04 2007 From: tmus at tmus.dk (Thomas M Steenholdt) Date: Wed, 17 Jan 2007 09:41:04 +0100 Subject: plans for long term support releases? In-Reply-To: <1168987566.10253.7.camel@rousalka.dyndns.org> References: <200701160856.24714.jkeating@redhat.com> <1168987566.10253.7.camel@rousalka.dyndns.org> Message-ID: Nicolas Mailhot wrote: > Le mardi 16 janvier 2007 ? 23:26 +0100, Thomas M Steenholdt a ?crit : > >> I've heard mention so many times, that it's a problem, people don't see >> Fedora as a serious distribution for non-desktop/-testing use. I think >> that this is exactly the problem. We want to be bleeding edge, but at >> the same time it would be nice if an installed version could be trusted >> to not break too often because of updates. > > In the Fedora space that means making updates safer?, not finding ways > to avoid updates. > > ? and supporting continuous yum updating with no anaconda stage > > Indeed. And I have no problem with things changing, as long as they keep working. But let the updates flow for a longer period of time for a branched version we could call Fedora LTS (or sumthin). From nicolas.mailhot at laposte.net Wed Jan 17 08:45:56 2007 From: nicolas.mailhot at laposte.net (Nicolas Mailhot) Date: Wed, 17 Jan 2007 09:45:56 +0100 (CET) Subject: Name for a FESCo Successor? Suggestions anyone? In-Reply-To: <1169018993.28538.0.camel@localhost.localdomain> References: <45AD12F9.3050204@leemhuis.info> <20070116202551.GG12544@neu.nirvana> <1169018993.28538.0.camel@localhost.localdomain> Message-ID: <26362.192.54.193.51.1169023556.squirrel@rousalka.dyndns.org> > On Tue, 2007-01-16 at 21:25 +0100, Axel Thimm wrote: >> On Tue, Jan 16, 2007 at 07:01:29PM +0100, Thorsten Leemhuis wrote: >> > But one issue is still totally undecided and needs to be solved soon: >> > What do we call that FESCo and Core Cabal successor? >> >> How about some more relaxed names like You want relaxed naming I'll give you relaxed naming (you've been warned) Fedora babysitters Fedora mums (evil grin) -- Nicolas Mailhot From nicolas.mailhot at laposte.net Wed Jan 17 08:49:11 2007 From: nicolas.mailhot at laposte.net (Nicolas Mailhot) Date: Wed, 17 Jan 2007 09:49:11 +0100 (CET) Subject: plans for long term support releases? In-Reply-To: References: <200701160856.24714.jkeating@redhat.com> <1168987566.10253.7.camel@rousalka.dyndns.org> Message-ID: <38133.192.54.193.51.1169023751.squirrel@rousalka.dyndns.org> Le Mer 17 janvier 2007 02:17, Krzysztof Halasa a ?crit : > Nicolas Mailhot writes: > >> In the Fedora space that means making updates safer?, not finding ways >> to avoid updates. >> >> ? and supporting continuous yum updating with no anaconda stage > > Certainly, we should be able to easily upgrade from version to > version without rebooting (not counting kernel etc. upgrades). Actually the biggest offender I've seen in the past years is the print backend. After a string of updates it just seems to need a reboot to find my local usb printer again -- Nicolas Mailhot From tmus at tmus.dk Wed Jan 17 08:51:38 2007 From: tmus at tmus.dk (Thomas M Steenholdt) Date: Wed, 17 Jan 2007 09:51:38 +0100 Subject: plans for long term support releases? In-Reply-To: <45AD681B.6060405@fedoraproject.org> References: <200701160856.24714.jkeating@redhat.com> <3adc77210701161452l4378bd44p5e0d662fff7af04@mail.gmail.com> <45AD681B.6060405@fedoraproject.org> Message-ID: Rahul Sundaram wrote: > Naheem Zaffar wrote: >> I would say keep 'proactive' support as it is, (Test 2 of Fn+2), but >> at the same time do not remove the older distro from the Fedora >> infrastructure for a little longer, allowing 'reactive' updates by >> packagers who care. >> >> It has been mentioned by one individual it would be easier on a single >> system to update packages than it was by havign two separate systems. >> Maybe this would give the impetus needed? >> >> Only remove the distro after a minimum of around 18 months, but make >> it clear that after around 13 months it is no longer proactively >> maintained. >> >> Ofcourse this will still leave issues over who will maintain major >> packages such as the kernel, which presumably require alot of work, >> since the current maintainers would have moved on. > > That is precisely the problem. Either everyone decides to commit to > providing update for a specific period of time or not. Allowing some > packagers to provide updates while others just dont care wont work > primarily because of setting the wrong expectations and due to potential > security issues with this arrangement. > > Anyway, we are just beginning to merge core and extras. Discussing any > substantial changes right away seems a bit premature. > > Rahul > I agree - If we cannot support the entire distro with updates, it just makes no sense at all. /Thomas From nicolas.mailhot at laposte.net Wed Jan 17 08:51:27 2007 From: nicolas.mailhot at laposte.net (Nicolas Mailhot) Date: Wed, 17 Jan 2007 09:51:27 +0100 (CET) Subject: plans for long term support releases? In-Reply-To: References: <200701160856.24714.jkeating@redhat.com> <1168987566.10253.7.camel@rousalka.dyndns.org> Message-ID: <45499.192.54.193.51.1169023887.squirrel@rousalka.dyndns.org> Le Mer 17 janvier 2007 09:41, Thomas M Steenholdt a ?crit : > Nicolas Mailhot wrote: >> Le mardi 16 janvier 2007 ? 23:26 +0100, Thomas M Steenholdt a ?crit : >> >>> I've heard mention so many times, that it's a problem, people don't see >>> Fedora as a serious distribution for non-desktop/-testing use. I think >>> that this is exactly the problem. We want to be bleeding edge, but at >>> the same time it would be nice if an installed version could be trusted >>> to not break too often because of updates. >> >> In the Fedora space that means making updates safer?, not finding ways >> to avoid updates. >> >> ? and supporting continuous yum updating with no anaconda stage >> >> > > Indeed. And I have no problem with things changing, as long as they keep > working. But let the updates flow for a longer period of time for a > branched version we could call Fedora LTS (or sumthin). Given the Fedora churn rate, I hope you realise that means you'll get a 85% new distro at about the time the Fedora new release happens, without the testing associated to a new release. With LTS you'll definitely get what amounts to a 100% new release without the testing -- Nicolas Mailhot From tmus at tmus.dk Wed Jan 17 08:54:13 2007 From: tmus at tmus.dk (Thomas M Steenholdt) Date: Wed, 17 Jan 2007 09:54:13 +0100 Subject: plans for long term support releases? In-Reply-To: <3237e4410701161454v5fa218b8mc9107750bc0629b8@mail.gmail.com> References: <200701160856.24714.jkeating@redhat.com> <3237e4410701161454v5fa218b8mc9107750bc0629b8@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: Mike McGrath wrote: > On 1/16/07, Thomas M Steenholdt wrote: >> Jesse Keating wrote: >> > >> These are valid points. >> I do think, however, that a lot if the people who will be installing the >> server spin of fedora would like the additional package stability. >> Certainly users *new* to Fedora would *expect* a server spin to have >> some other properties besides a specific package selection. Longer >> lifespan for example. > > Anyone who thinks the server spin is going to be anything other than > Fedora is sorely mistaken. Its just packages on a CD. The same > packages that will be on the mirror. > > -Mike > Yup. But imagine that we could change this picture (the lifetime - I should not be anything other than Fedora, technically) for a less often released special release of Fedora. /Thomas From naoki at valuecommerce.com Wed Jan 17 08:58:02 2007 From: naoki at valuecommerce.com (Naoki) Date: Wed, 17 Jan 2007 17:58:02 +0900 Subject: Fedora 7 - USB Install method - Everything ISO. In-Reply-To: <003401c739fc$9a8aadb0$020aa8c0@a18> References: <20070104195032.GE4693@nostromo.devel.redhat.com> <200701162142.11782.jkeating@redhat.com> <1169008538.29098.30.camel@dragon.valuecommerce.ne.jp> <200701162354.33061.jkeating@redhat.com> <003401c739fc$9a8aadb0$020aa8c0@a18> Message-ID: <1169024282.29098.113.camel@dragon.valuecommerce.ne.jp> On Tue, 2007-01-16 at 22:59 -0700, Jerry Williams wrote: > > -----Original Message----- > > From: fedora-devel-list-bounces at redhat.com [mailto:fedora-devel-list- > > bounces at redhat.com] On Behalf Of Jesse Keating > > Sent: Tuesday, January 16, 2007 9:54 PM > > To: fedora-devel-list at redhat.com > > Subject: Re: Fedora 7 - USB Install method - Everything ISO. > > > > On Tuesday 16 January 2007 23:35, Naoki wrote: > > > I'd suggest variable sized ISO chunks rather than CD specific, but I > > > understand it's pretty much a work in progress. > > > > Well, presumably one could make the "CD Size" configurable, so you could > > ask > > for 4gig size "CDs" or whatnot. Right now I think it is hardcoded, but a > > sensable patch to make it a semi-hidden option would be acceptable to me. > > > > > In the interim though, see any merit in an everything ISO? Or is that > > > just too big for mirrors and networks to deal with? > > > > Mostly too big for mirrors, for the little use it would be for. > > > > -- > > Jesse Keating > > Release Engineer: Fedora > > I looked at putting Linux on a USB flash drive and from what I have read > they don't always work. And if you get larger than 1 Gig then you have > problems or have to have multiple partitions. Most things I have read want > to use FAT16 for compatibility. So great idea, just don't think the > hardware is that stable/compatible. I would somewhat disagree here, there is always the problem with older BIOSes but since USB boot has been pretty standard for motherboard manufacturers for a while now that would be a special case, not the norm. I've been installing windows from USB for a while now so the hardware is stable (IME). Size also shouldn't be an issue, if the BIOS can handle 750GB HDDs it can handle 8-16GB on a flash disk. And the FS is a matter of what the kernel supports. The BIOS is only interested in boot sectors, not what file system is there. > Here is a Knoppix how to http://www.knoppix.net/wiki/Bootable_USB_Key > I would think this would fit better into the Fedora Live CD project. > > The only other thought I have is maybe to get around the boot problem is to > use the small boot cd and then do a hard drive install from the usb device. > So you could install on old hardware that doesn't boot from usb and have the > ability to change the content on the usb device. The boot process is the same for anything, be it CD/DVD/HDD/Flash with the only difference being at the hardware enumeration level. In theory you can make any device act the same so a boot and install should be easily possible from USB storage. We already know we can run an installation from USB, we know we can make USB rescue disks. But so far it seems there has been no interest in installing from USB, which is a shame as it's easier and cheaper than CD/DVD. If so, I'd like to document and add to the supported list of install methods. From tmus at tmus.dk Wed Jan 17 09:05:45 2007 From: tmus at tmus.dk (Thomas M Steenholdt) Date: Wed, 17 Jan 2007 10:05:45 +0100 Subject: plans for long term support releases? In-Reply-To: <200701162040.12100.jkeating@redhat.com> References: <200701160856.24714.jkeating@redhat.com> <200701162040.12100.jkeating@redhat.com> Message-ID: Jesse Keating wrote: > On Tuesday 16 January 2007 17:26, Thomas M Steenholdt wrote: >> This is why I suggested an more stable (in terms of changes) LTS spin, >> perhaps, for every 2-4 normal Fedora releases, to provide a Fedora that >> could actually be used in these situations. (i know it is the way it is >> for a reason, so this is in no way an attempt to bad-mouth Fedora as it >> is. It's meant as a suggestion for further improvement). I also realize >> that providing such a release would be very much like RHEL and CentOS, >> but I got the impression that we were starting to open up and become >> more than the fast-rolling testbed distro that will be snapshot and >> stabilized into RHEL, in which case something like this could help us to >> reach more users/uses for Fedora. > > So every 2 to 4 releases of Fedora, call something a LTS release, do more QA > and different update styles for it, support it for a long time, and market it > as the Fedora for production use. > > Wait, how is this _not_ RHEL/CentOS? > > Right now it may be the same thing, but if Fedora continues to evolve to something *larger* than a bleeding edge RHEL/CentOS, as there's been much talk about recently (realistically or not?!?), it would be great to have something to handle these cases with a real Fedora. I completely agree that right now, for my servers, RHEL/CentOS is probably exactly what I'm looking for. And that's also why most my servers actually run RHEL today. Also, this may not be doable (right now or ever), I'm mentioning it as something to be *considered*, because there are enough of users out there who could do with longer periods of active maintenance for their servers. /Thomas From tmus at tmus.dk Wed Jan 17 09:13:48 2007 From: tmus at tmus.dk (Thomas M Steenholdt) Date: Wed, 17 Jan 2007 10:13:48 +0100 Subject: plans for long term support releases? In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: Kevin Kofler wrote: > Thomas M Steenholdt tmus.dk> writes: >> Now that Core and Extras are going to be merged and the distro is >> opening up to become even more (?) community driven, has anyone played >> with the though of eventually releasing a long term support version of >> Fedora? > > Isn't that exactly what RHEL/CentOS/Scientific Linux is? > > Kevin Kofler > I guess it is right now, but I believe there's been a lot of talk about fedora becoming something more than the basis from which RHEL is molded. Again, I feel it's important to state that I am in no way against the way things are today. Fedora are stable enough (in the non-crashing sense, well in that sense too), that I can use if for most if not all of my systems. The only thing fedora lacks is lifetime as I see it. And I'm not saying that backporting securityfixes is the only way. If rolling versions as we do for updates today would make this possible, I have absolutely no problem with that. It would just be great to install all the 100s of servers knowing that the OS would not need an upgrade after 13 months. If RHEL and CentOS is the way(tm) to accomplish this, fair enough! /Thomas From sundaram at fedoraproject.org Wed Jan 17 09:11:22 2007 From: sundaram at fedoraproject.org (Rahul Sundaram) Date: Wed, 17 Jan 2007 14:41:22 +0530 Subject: plans for long term support releases? In-Reply-To: References: <200701160856.24714.jkeating@redhat.com> <200701162040.12100.jkeating@redhat.com> Message-ID: <45ADE83A.1010309@fedoraproject.org> Thomas M Steenholdt wrote: >> > Right now it may be the same thing, but if Fedora continues to evolve to > something *larger* than a bleeding edge RHEL/CentOS, as there's been > much talk about recently (realistically or not?!?), it would be great to > have something to handle these cases with a real Fedora. I am not sure what bleeding edge RHEL means. Do you believe Fedora can work out a even longer lifecycle? What exactly are the benefits to users? > I completely agree that right now, for my servers, RHEL/CentOS is > probably exactly what I'm looking for. And that's also why most my > servers actually run RHEL today. > > Also, this may not be doable (right now or ever), I'm mentioning it as > something to be *considered*, because there are enough of users out > there who could do with longer periods of active maintenance for their > servers. Question though is about not just enough users but enough contributors to do the work. Rahul From tmus at tmus.dk Wed Jan 17 09:29:05 2007 From: tmus at tmus.dk (Thomas M Steenholdt) Date: Wed, 17 Jan 2007 10:29:05 +0100 Subject: plans for long term support releases? In-Reply-To: <1169009497.3457.48.camel@laptopd505.fenrus.org> References: <1169009497.3457.48.camel@laptopd505.fenrus.org> Message-ID: Arjan van de Ven wrote: > On Tue, 2007-01-16 at 07:04 +0100, Thomas M Steenholdt wrote: >> Now that Core and Extras are going to be merged and the distro is >> opening up to become even more (?) community driven, has anyone played >> with the though of eventually releasing a long term support version of >> Fedora? >> >> It could be a based on a staple snapshot of Fedora 7 + 4 months worth of >> updates or whatever, at this point I'm more interested in hearing about >> the idea than the details, which will surely follow, if i'm not the only >> one who think this could be a good idea. Especially now that we're going >> to do special server spins etc... >> >> Just a thought (hope this was not brought up ages ago and I just missed it) > > > so one question: how many packages are YOU willing to be the person for > that keeps up with the security stuff? (it should be packages you're > familiar with since security backports are generally quite hard, and > incrementally harder the older the package).... > In my mind, something like this could be accomplished in several ways. If backporting is too much work (I know it takes time) then perhaps it could be done by following upstream releases like we do today, but for a longer time. LTS in this case is meant to decrease the burden of having to provide updates 3-5 years ahead for every version of Fedora. We could provide a Fedora LTS, that's essentially a normal Fedora that we choose to provide updates for, for a good while longer that all the other Fedoras. Perhaps the solution is to re-launch legacy in a more integrated way?!? I heard the cut back, but I don't know how much. But hey, these are only thoughts. Perhaps the official answer could be "for long terms support cases, go with RHEL/CentOS"? > if the answer is "eh none" then you are giving the same answer a LOT of > people do. THere's nothing wrong with that per se, but there IS > something wrong with the "but I want other people to do it for me. For > free. Without even saying thanks". > > Fedora Legacy may have had it's faults, but there is also a fundamental > contradiction in it. > > A lot of people like fedora for it's latest stuff. And there's people > who just want a distro stable and keep using it. > > The first group generally moves to a new FC release within 3 months > after it being released. Fair enough, and this is actually quite a > really large group. Even in the RHL days (with 2+ years of support), 90% > of the users moved to a new release within that timeframe. Absolutely - And I do that too. Within the first month I'd say. But that's not always possible/feasible for server systems. > > The other 10% wants things to "just work", and this is pretty much the > exact same crowd who only want stable tested packages. So.. your testing > base for updates is... exactly zero. (This problem isn't unique to > fedora. For example the 2.4 kernel series has exactly this same problem; > nobody who still uses 2.4 wants to test prereleases) > > What is worse, usually developers (either upstream coders or package > maintainers) do not fall in this 10%, they are more in the 90% by *far*. > And for the part they're in the 10%, they don't want those systems > unstable/testing either... > > My conclusion on this (and I've been outside a distro for a while now, > looking at the entire ecosystem from a distance) is that you either > 1) have people paid to do the work > or > 2) have longer release cycles (with one in development and one in > maintenance) > > debian follows the 2) model.. RHEL, SLES and Ubuntu the 1) model. > Thing is... if I ask YOU the question, how many dollars are you willing > to pay for 6 extra months of maintenance, I can guess the answer with a > dollar or two :) > > Note that this includes QA; without QA this entire thing is worthless, > since if update packages break more than once for the 10% that cares, > they will yell, scream and claim the long term support effectively is > worthless and doesn't exist anyway. > I agree completely. Perhaps an LTS is simply out of scope for Fedora and that's okay. I can easily use RHEL/CentOS, I just though it was a neat idea if we could think of a way that would make it possible to install a special Fedora spin that had the property of LTS. nothing more. Of course things have to work in sense of people, money etc. Perhaps setup a Fedora donation thingie, where happy users can contribute and see what kind of interesting prospects something like that could bring (if any). /Thomas From tmus at tmus.dk Wed Jan 17 09:31:50 2007 From: tmus at tmus.dk (Thomas M Steenholdt) Date: Wed, 17 Jan 2007 10:31:50 +0100 Subject: plans for long term support releases? In-Reply-To: <45499.192.54.193.51.1169023887.squirrel@rousalka.dyndns.org> References: <200701160856.24714.jkeating@redhat.com> <1168987566.10253.7.camel@rousalka.dyndns.org> <45499.192.54.193.51.1169023887.squirrel@rousalka.dyndns.org> Message-ID: Nicolas Mailhot wrote: > Le Mer 17 janvier 2007 09:41, Thomas M Steenholdt a ?crit : >> Nicolas Mailhot wrote: >>> Le mardi 16 janvier 2007 ? 23:26 +0100, Thomas M Steenholdt a ?crit : >>> >>>> I've heard mention so many times, that it's a problem, people don't see >>>> Fedora as a serious distribution for non-desktop/-testing use. I think >>>> that this is exactly the problem. We want to be bleeding edge, but at >>>> the same time it would be nice if an installed version could be trusted >>>> to not break too often because of updates. >>> In the Fedora space that means making updates safer?, not finding ways >>> to avoid updates. >>> >>> ? and supporting continuous yum updating with no anaconda stage >>> >>> >> Indeed. And I have no problem with things changing, as long as they keep >> working. But let the updates flow for a longer period of time for a >> branched version we could call Fedora LTS (or sumthin). > > Given the Fedora churn rate, I hope you realise that means you'll get a > 85% new distro at about the time the Fedora new release happens, without > the testing associated to a new release. > > With LTS you'll definitely get what amounts to a 100% new release without > the testing > I realize this is not something you simply decide and it works. So help bring the pieces together and let's see if it's possible in one way or another. That is, unless you feel that it's simply out-of-scope for Fedora, which would also be valid input. /Thomas From tmus at tmus.dk Wed Jan 17 09:36:19 2007 From: tmus at tmus.dk (Thomas M Steenholdt) Date: Wed, 17 Jan 2007 10:36:19 +0100 Subject: plans for long term support releases? In-Reply-To: <45ADE83A.1010309@fedoraproject.org> References: <200701160856.24714.jkeating@redhat.com> <200701162040.12100.jkeating@redhat.com> <45ADE83A.1010309@fedoraproject.org> Message-ID: Rahul Sundaram wrote: > Thomas M Steenholdt wrote: > >>> >> Right now it may be the same thing, but if Fedora continues to evolve >> to something *larger* than a bleeding edge RHEL/CentOS, as there's >> been much talk about recently (realistically or not?!?), it would be >> great to have something to handle these cases with a real Fedora. > > I am not sure what bleeding edge RHEL means. Do you believe Fedora can > work out a even longer lifecycle? What exactly are the benefits to users? > By bleeding edge RHEL I mean what will essentially be snapshot and matured into RHEL and later CentOS. >> I completely agree that right now, for my servers, RHEL/CentOS is >> probably exactly what I'm looking for. And that's also why most my >> servers actually run RHEL today. >> >> Also, this may not be doable (right now or ever), I'm mentioning it as >> something to be *considered*, because there are enough of users out >> there who could do with longer periods of active maintenance for their >> servers. > > Question though is about not just enough users but enough contributors > to do the work. > Of course. Things all have to add up. Still. is this even something we want for Fedora? It's quite possible that we just don't want to do it, for any number of the problems brought up throughout this thread. Then let's declare LTS out-of-scope for Fedora and move along. Otherwise, lets see what *could* be done about it. :) /Thomas From sundaram at fedoraproject.org Wed Jan 17 10:00:19 2007 From: sundaram at fedoraproject.org (Rahul Sundaram) Date: Wed, 17 Jan 2007 15:30:19 +0530 Subject: plans for long term support releases? In-Reply-To: References: <200701160856.24714.jkeating@redhat.com> <200701162040.12100.jkeating@redhat.com> <45ADE83A.1010309@fedoraproject.org> Message-ID: <45ADF3B3.50609@fedoraproject.org> Thomas M Steenholdt wrote: > Of course. Things all have to add up. > Still. is this even something we want for Fedora? It's quite possible > that we just don't want to do it, for any number of the problems brought > up throughout this thread. Then let's declare LTS out-of-scope for > Fedora and move along. Otherwise, lets see what *could* be done about > it. :) Just so that this isnt discussed much without much concrete details. Here is what we need to fill up. http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/LongerUpdates Rahul From buildsys at redhat.com Wed Jan 17 11:42:50 2007 From: buildsys at redhat.com (buildsys at redhat.com) Date: Wed, 17 Jan 2007 06:42:50 -0500 Subject: rawhide report: 20070117 changes Message-ID: <200701171142.l0HBgoev000680@hs20-bc2-6.build.redhat.com> Updated Packages: anaconda-11.2.0.10-1 -------------------- * Tue Jan 16 2007 Chris Lumens - 11.2.0.10-1 - Remove deps when going back from package selection (dlehman, #222894). - Fix UI when going back from package selection (dlehman, #215493). - Update kickstart code to use new pykickstart API. - Fix loader test for NULL (yanmin.zhang AT intel.com, #222767). - Don't display the unsupported lang box in kickstart installs (#222096). - Error message fixes in package installation (katzj). - Update DHCP UI (dcantrell). - Correct behavior of escape key in release notes viewer (dcantrell, #220418). bash-3.2-2.fc7 -------------- * Tue Jan 16 2007 Miroslav Lichvar 3.2-2 - Link with ncurses. bind-31:9.3.3-3.fc7 ------------------- * Tue Jan 16 2007 Martin Stransky - 30:9.3.3-3 - fixed a multi-lib issue - Resolves: rhbz#222717 curl-7.16.0-5.fc7 ----------------- * Tue Jan 16 2007 Jindrich Novy 7.16.0-5 - don't package generated makefiles for docs/examples to avoid multilib conflicts glib2-2.12.9-1.fc7 ------------------ * Tue Jan 16 2007 Matthias Clasen - 2.12.9-1 - Update to 2.12.9 gtk2-2.10.8-1.fc7 ----------------- * Wed Jan 17 2007 Matthias Clasen - 2.10.8-1 - Update to 2.10.8 libgpod-0.4.2-1.fc7 ------------------- * Tue Jan 16 2007 Alexander Larsson - 0.4.2-1 - update to 0.4.2 - Change %description to reflect newer features - Remove TODO file from %doc as it's not included anymore - Explicitly disable the python bindings, they are in the python-gpod package in Extras until the Core/Extras merge libselinux-1.33.5-1.fc7 ----------------------- * Mon Jan 15 2007 Dan Walsh - 1.33.5-1 - Upgrade to upstream * Merged getdefaultcon utility from Dan Walsh. libtiff-3.8.2-7.fc7 ------------------- * Tue Jan 16 2007 Tom Lane 3.8.2-7 - Remove Makefiles from the shipped /usr/share/doc/html directories Resolves: bz #222729 lv-4.51-9.fc7 ------------- * Tue Jan 16 2007 Miroslav Lichvar - 4.51-9 - link with ncurses - add dist tag * Wed Jul 12 2006 Jesse Keating - 4.51-8.1 - rebuild * Mon Jun 12 2006 Akira TAGOH - 4.51-8 - clean up the spec file. - add autoconf to BuildReq. (#194753) m17n-db-1.3.4-3.fc7 ------------------- * Tue Jan 16 2007 Mayank Jain - Added Patch 3 as sk-kbd-222804.patch to fix bug 222804 mkinitrd-6.0.6-2 ---------------- * Tue Jan 16 2007 Jesse Keating - 6.0.6-2 - rebuild for new parted nspr-4.6.4-2 ------------ * Fri Feb 16 2007 Kai Engert - 4.6.4-2 - Include upstream patch to fix ipv6 support (rhbz 222554) openoffice.org-1:2.1.0-6.13 --------------------------- * Mon Jan 15 2007 Caolan McNamara - 1:2.1.0-6.13 - Resolves: rhbz#222426 add openoffice.org-2.1.0.ooo73481.svx.longnotint32.patch - Resolves: rhbz#222423 openoffice.org-2.1.0.ooo73485.vcl.filterzwatrender.patch - Resolves: rhbz#222420 DejaVu font has two plausible english names openssh-4.5p1-2.fc7 ------------------- * Tue Jan 16 2007 Tomas Mraz - 4.5p1-2 - support mls on labeled networks (#220487) - support mls level selection on unlabeled networks - allow / in usernames in scp (only beginning /, ./, and ../ is special) pam-0.99.6.2-8.fc7 ------------------ * Tue Jan 16 2007 Tomas Mraz 0.99.6.2-8 - properly include /var/log/faillog and tallylog as ghosts and create them in post script (#209646) - update gmo files as we patch some po files (#218271) - add use_current_range option to pam_selinux (#220487) - improve the role selection in pam_selinux - remove shortcut on Password: in ja locale (#218271) - revert to old euid and not ruid when setting euid in pam_keyinit (#219486) - rename selinux-namespace patch to namespace-level * Fri Dec 01 2006 Dan Walsh 0.99.6.2-7 - fix selection of role * Fri Dec 01 2006 Dan Walsh 0.99.6.2-6 - add possibility to pam_namespace to only change MLS component - Resolves: Bug #216184 policycoreutils-1.33.14-1.fc7 ----------------------------- * Tue Jan 16 2007 Dan Walsh 1.33.14-1 * Merged newrole man page patch from Michael Thompson. * Merged patch to fix python unicode problem from Dan Walsh. * Tue Jan 16 2007 Dan Walsh 1.33.12-3 - Fix handling of audit messages for useradd change Resolves: #222159 pykickstart-0.90-1.fc7 ---------------------- * Tue Jan 16 2007 Chris Lumens - 0.90-1 - Support multiple versions of kickstart syntax from one code base (#189348). - Fix inconsistency between Script parser and writer (#222877). python-2.5-9.fc7 ---------------- * Tue Jan 16 2007 Miroslav Lichvar - 2.5.3-9 - link with ncurses * Sat Jan 06 2007 Jeremy Katz - 2.5.3-8 - fix extensions to use shared libpython (#219564) - all 64bit platforms need the regex fix (#122304) * Wed Jan 03 2007 Jeremy Katz - 2.5.3-7 - fix ctypes to not require execstack (#220669) rhythmbox-0.9.7-6.fc7 --------------------- * Tue Jan 16 2007 Alexander Larsson - 0.9.7-6.fc7 - rebuild with new libgpod stardict-2.4.8-2.fc7 -------------------- * Tue Jan 16 2007 Mayank Jain - Removed gnome support from the spec file (--disable-gnome-support) for bug 213850 - Commented the gnome related directives. strace-4.5.15-1.fc7 ------------------- * Tue Jan 16 2007 Roland McGrath - 4.5.15-1 - biarch fixes (#179740, #192193, #171626, #173050, #218433, #218043) - fix -ff -o behavior (#204950, #218435, #193808, #219423) - better quotactl printing (#118696) - *at, inotify*, pselect6, ppoll and unshare syscalls (#178633, #191275) - glibc-2.5 build fixes (#209856) - memory corruption fixes (#200621 - fix race in child setup under -f (#180293) - show ipc key values in hex (#198179, #192182) - disallow -c with -ff (#187847) - Resolves: RHBZ #179740, RHBZ #192193, RHBZ #204950, RHBZ #218435 - Resolves: RHBZ #193808, RHBZ #219423, RHBZ #171626, RHBZ #173050 - Resolves: RHBZ #218433, RHBZ #218043, RHBZ #118696, RHBZ #178633 - Resolves: RHBZ #191275, RHBZ #209856, RHBZ #200621, RHBZ #180293 - Resolves: RHBZ #198179, RHBZ #198182, RHBZ #187847 system-config-kickstart-2.7.1-1.fc7 ----------------------------------- * Tue Jan 16 2007 Chris Lumens 2.7.1-1 - Update to use new pykickstart. - Don't traceback if no monitor or x driver is selected. - Handle pykickstart exceptions by displaying an error dialog. system-config-printer-0.7.49-1.fc7 ---------------------------------- * Tue Jan 16 2007 Tim Waugh 0.7.49-1 - 0.7.49: - Fixed a traceback in the driver check code. - Fixed a typo in the conflicts message. - Handle InputSlot/ManualFeed specially because libcups does (bug #222490). tomboy-0.5.3-1.fc7 ------------------ * Thu Jan 11 2007 Matthias Clasen - 0.5.3-1 - Update to 0.5.3 * Wed Dec 20 2006 Matthias Clasen - 0.5.2-1 - Update to 0.5.2 zsh-4.2.6-3.fc7 --------------- * Tue Jan 16 2007 Miroslav Lichvar - 4.2.6-3 - Link with ncurses - Add dist tag - Make scriptlets safer * Tue Sep 19 2006 James Antill - 4.2.6-2 - Add --enable-maildir-support BZ#186281 Broken deps for s390 ---------------------------------------------------------- systemtap - 0.5.10-1.fc7.s390 requires kernel >= 0:2.6.9-11 systemtap-runtime - 0.5.10-1.fc7.s390 requires kernel >= 0:2.6.9-11 From Axel.Thimm at ATrpms.net Wed Jan 17 12:20:43 2007 From: Axel.Thimm at ATrpms.net (Axel Thimm) Date: Wed, 17 Jan 2007 13:20:43 +0100 Subject: Name for a FESCo Successor? Suggestions anyone? In-Reply-To: <1169018993.28538.0.camel@localhost.localdomain> References: <45AD12F9.3050204@leemhuis.info> <20070116202551.GG12544@neu.nirvana> <1169018993.28538.0.camel@localhost.localdomain> Message-ID: <20070117122043.GB26437@neu.nirvana> On Wed, Jan 17, 2007 at 01:29:52AM -0600, Callum Lerwick wrote: > On Tue, 2007-01-16 at 21:25 +0100, Axel Thimm wrote: > > On Tue, Jan 16, 2007 at 07:01:29PM +0100, Thorsten Leemhuis wrote: > > > But one issue is still totally undecided and needs to be solved soon: > > > What do we call that FESCo and Core Cabal successor? > > > > How about some more relaxed names like > > > > Fedora Elders > > > > or > > > > Fedora Masters > > The Fedora Jedi Council. That carries a bad history, at the end all are slaughtered by some Sith counterpart like Darth Mark ;) -- Axel.Thimm at ATrpms.net -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 189 bytes Desc: not available URL: From Axel.Thimm at ATrpms.net Wed Jan 17 12:21:45 2007 From: Axel.Thimm at ATrpms.net (Axel Thimm) Date: Wed, 17 Jan 2007 13:21:45 +0100 Subject: Name for a FESCo Successor? Suggestions anyone? In-Reply-To: <26362.192.54.193.51.1169023556.squirrel@rousalka.dyndns.org> References: <45AD12F9.3050204@leemhuis.info> <20070116202551.GG12544@neu.nirvana> <1169018993.28538.0.camel@localhost.localdomain> <26362.192.54.193.51.1169023556.squirrel@rousalka.dyndns.org> Message-ID: <20070117122145.GC26437@neu.nirvana> On Wed, Jan 17, 2007 at 09:45:56AM +0100, Nicolas Mailhot wrote: > > On Tue, 2007-01-16 at 21:25 +0100, Axel Thimm wrote: > >> On Tue, Jan 16, 2007 at 07:01:29PM +0100, Thorsten Leemhuis wrote: > >> > But one issue is still totally undecided and needs to be solved soon: > >> > What do we call that FESCo and Core Cabal successor? > >> > >> How about some more relaxed names like > > You want relaxed naming I'll give you relaxed naming (you've been warned) > > Fedora babysitters > Fedora mums > > (evil grin) So the packager community will be named "Fedora babies"? ;) -- Axel.Thimm at ATrpms.net -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 189 bytes Desc: not available URL: From pknirsch at redhat.com Wed Jan 17 12:22:30 2007 From: pknirsch at redhat.com (Phil Knirsch) Date: Wed, 17 Jan 2007 13:22:30 +0100 Subject: Name for a FESCo Successor? Suggestions anyone? In-Reply-To: <20070117122043.GB26437@neu.nirvana> References: <45AD12F9.3050204@leemhuis.info> <20070116202551.GG12544@neu.nirvana> <1169018993.28538.0.camel@localhost.localdomain> <20070117122043.GB26437@neu.nirvana> Message-ID: <45AE1506.4090208@redhat.com> Axel Thimm wrote: > On Wed, Jan 17, 2007 at 01:29:52AM -0600, Callum Lerwick wrote: >> On Tue, 2007-01-16 at 21:25 +0100, Axel Thimm wrote: >>> On Tue, Jan 16, 2007 at 07:01:29PM +0100, Thorsten Leemhuis wrote: >>>> But one issue is still totally undecided and needs to be solved soon: >>>> What do we call that FESCo and Core Cabal successor? >>> How about some more relaxed names like >>> >>> Fedora Elders >>> >>> or >>> >>> Fedora Masters >> The Fedora Jedi Council. > > That carries a bad history, at the end all are slaughtered by some > Sith counterpart like Darth Mark ;) > Weren't those Seth Lords? ;) /me runs, fast! Read ya, Phil -- Philipp Knirsch | Tel.: +49-711-96437-470 Development | Fax.: +49-711-96437-111 Red Hat GmbH | Email: Phil Knirsch Hauptstaetterstr. 58 | Web: http://www.redhat.de/ D-70178 Stuttgart Motd: You're only jealous cos the little penguins are talking to me. From vonbrand at inf.utfsm.cl Wed Jan 17 12:50:36 2007 From: vonbrand at inf.utfsm.cl (Horst H. von Brand) Date: Wed, 17 Jan 2007 09:50:36 -0300 Subject: plans for long term support releases? In-Reply-To: <38133.192.54.193.51.1169023751.squirrel@rousalka.dyndns.org> References: <200701160856.24714.jkeating@redhat.com> <1168987566.10253.7.camel@rousalka.dyndns.org> <38133.192.54.193.51.1169023751.squirrel@rousalka.dyndns.org> Message-ID: <200701171250.l0HCoap6009953@laptop13.inf.utfsm.cl> Nicolas Mailhot wrote: [...] > Actually the biggest offender I've seen in the past years is the print > backend. After a string of updates it just seems to need a reboot to find > my local usb printer again I usually just restart cups each time anything in that area is touched. -- Dr. Horst H. von Brand User #22616 counter.li.org Departamento de Informatica Fono: +56 32 2654431 Universidad Tecnica Federico Santa Maria +56 32 2654239 Casilla 110-V, Valparaiso, Chile Fax: +56 32 2797513 From vonbrand at inf.utfsm.cl Wed Jan 17 12:54:13 2007 From: vonbrand at inf.utfsm.cl (Horst H. von Brand) Date: Wed, 17 Jan 2007 09:54:13 -0300 Subject: plans for long term support releases? In-Reply-To: References: <200701160856.24714.jkeating@redhat.com> <1168987566.10253.7.camel@rousalka.dyndns.org> Message-ID: <200701171254.l0HCsDIE009991@laptop13.inf.utfsm.cl> Thomas M Steenholdt wrote: [...] > Indeed. And I have no problem with things changing, as long as they > keep working. You /do/ know that this is a contradiction in terms, don't you? If you change things, they are sure to work differently, and that means breaking for somebody. The only way to make sure it won't break for you is you checking it out in your environment with your usage pattern. > But let the updates flow for a longer period of time for > a branched version we could call Fedora LTS (or sumthin). If upgrading gets painless, it won't matter. But living at the bleeding edge means pain... -- Dr. Horst H. von Brand User #22616 counter.li.org Departamento de Informatica Fono: +56 32 2654431 Universidad Tecnica Federico Santa Maria +56 32 2654239 Casilla 110-V, Valparaiso, Chile Fax: +56 32 2797513 From jkeating at redhat.com Wed Jan 17 13:05:56 2007 From: jkeating at redhat.com (Jesse Keating) Date: Wed, 17 Jan 2007 08:05:56 -0500 Subject: plans for long term support releases? In-Reply-To: References: <45ADE83A.1010309@fedoraproject.org> Message-ID: <200701170805.59771.jkeating@redhat.com> On Wednesday 17 January 2007 04:36, Thomas M Steenholdt wrote: > Of course. Things all have to add up. > Still. is this even something we want for Fedora? It's quite possible > that we just don't want to do it, for any number of the problems brought > up throughout this thread. Then let's declare LTS out-of-scope for > Fedora and move along. Otherwise, lets see what *could* be done about it. I think many of us have declared this out of scope for Fedora, you just haven't moved on (: -- Jesse Keating Release Engineer: Fedora -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 189 bytes Desc: not available URL: From jkeating at redhat.com Wed Jan 17 13:07:19 2007 From: jkeating at redhat.com (Jesse Keating) Date: Wed, 17 Jan 2007 08:07:19 -0500 Subject: plans for long term support releases? In-Reply-To: References: <200701162040.12100.jkeating@redhat.com> Message-ID: <200701170807.20022.jkeating@redhat.com> On Wednesday 17 January 2007 04:05, Thomas M Steenholdt wrote: > Right now it may be the same thing, but if Fedora continues to evolve to > something *larger* than a bleeding edge RHEL/CentOS, as there's been > much talk about recently (realistically or not?!?), it would be great to > have something to handle these cases with a real Fedora. The talk about making Fedora something more than a Distribution means applying the name to other projects or services, not changing the distribution itself. So making Fedora bigger/different shouldn't effect how the Distribution is used and wether or not RHEL/CentOS is the "LTS" version of Fedora. -- Jesse Keating Release Engineer: Fedora -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 189 bytes Desc: not available URL: From twaugh at redhat.com Wed Jan 17 13:30:58 2007 From: twaugh at redhat.com (Tim Waugh) Date: Wed, 17 Jan 2007 13:30:58 +0000 Subject: plans for long term support releases? In-Reply-To: <200701171250.l0HCoap6009953@laptop13.inf.utfsm.cl> References: <200701160856.24714.jkeating@redhat.com> <1168987566.10253.7.camel@rousalka.dyndns.org> <38133.192.54.193.51.1169023751.squirrel@rousalka.dyndns.org> <200701171250.l0HCoap6009953@laptop13.inf.utfsm.cl> Message-ID: <1169040658.4881.37.camel@cyberelk.elk> On Wed, 2007-01-17 at 09:50 -0300, Horst H. von Brand wrote: > Nicolas Mailhot wrote: > > [...] > > > Actually the biggest offender I've seen in the past years is the print > > backend. After a string of updates it just seems to need a reboot to find > > my local usb printer again > > I usually just restart cups each time anything in that area is touched. Starting with Fedora Core 6 this whole issue should be much easier to deal with. Updated printing packages no longer cause any configuration changes or updates, with the minor exception of gutenprint-cups which runs its own cups-genppdupdate.5.0 script to apply any needed updates to existing PPDs. Updates breaking CUPS configurations has, however, been a problem up to and including Fedora Core 5. :-( Tim. */ -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: signature.asc Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 189 bytes Desc: This is a digitally signed message part URL: From nicolas.mailhot at laposte.net Wed Jan 17 13:46:56 2007 From: nicolas.mailhot at laposte.net (Nicolas Mailhot) Date: Wed, 17 Jan 2007 14:46:56 +0100 (CET) Subject: plans for long term support releases? In-Reply-To: <200701171250.l0HCoap6009953@laptop13.inf.utfsm.cl> References: <200701160856.24714.jkeating@redhat.com> <1168987566.10253.7.camel@rousalka.dyndns.org> <38133.192.54.193.51.1169023751.squirrel@rousalka.dyndns.org> <200701171250.l0HCoap6009953@laptop13.inf.utfsm.cl> Message-ID: <62326.192.54.193.51.1169041616.squirrel@rousalka.dyndns.org> Le Mer 17 janvier 2007 13:50, Horst H. von Brand a ?crit : > Nicolas Mailhot wrote: > > [...] > >> Actually the biggest offender I've seen in the past years is the print >> backend. After a string of updates it just seems to need a reboot to >> find >> my local usb printer again > > I usually just restart cups each time anything in that area is touched. Lucky man. I do that too but it is still not sufficient after several updates. -- Nicolas Mailhot From cmadams at hiwaay.net Wed Jan 17 14:26:44 2007 From: cmadams at hiwaay.net (Chris Adams) Date: Wed, 17 Jan 2007 08:26:44 -0600 Subject: Name for a FESCo Successor? Suggestions anyone? In-Reply-To: <1169003496.3159.110.camel@vader.jdub.homelinux.org> References: <45AD12F9.3050204@leemhuis.info> <1169003496.3159.110.camel@vader.jdub.homelinux.org> Message-ID: <20070117142644.GA574056@hiwaay.net> Once upon a time, Josh Boyer said: > I like "the Cabal". Simple, descriptive, and most importantly not > another acronym. Yeah, but then you always have to remember to say "The Cabal (TINC)". -- Chris Adams Systems and Network Administrator - HiWAAY Internet Services I don't speak for anybody but myself - that's enough trouble. From bpepple at fedoraproject.org Wed Jan 17 14:36:18 2007 From: bpepple at fedoraproject.org (Brian Pepple) Date: Wed, 17 Jan 2007 09:36:18 -0500 Subject: plans for long term support releases? In-Reply-To: <200701170805.59771.jkeating@redhat.com> References: <45ADE83A.1010309@fedoraproject.org> <200701170805.59771.jkeating@redhat.com> Message-ID: <1169044578.24884.3.camel@Chuck> On Wed, 2007-01-17 at 08:05 -0500, Jesse Keating wrote: > On Wednesday 17 January 2007 04:36, Thomas M Steenholdt wrote: > > Of course. Things all have to add up. > > Still. is this even something we want for Fedora? It's quite possible > > that we just don't want to do it, for any number of the problems brought > > up throughout this thread. Then let's declare LTS out-of-scope for > > Fedora and move along. Otherwise, lets see what *could* be done about it. > > I think many of us have declared this out of scope for Fedora, you just > haven't moved on (: +1 /B -- Brian Pepple gpg --keyserver pgp.mit.edu --recv-keys 810CC15E BD5E 6F9E 8688 E668 8F5B CBDE 326A E936 810C C15E -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: signature.asc Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 189 bytes Desc: This is a digitally signed message part URL: From tmus at tmus.dk Wed Jan 17 14:47:04 2007 From: tmus at tmus.dk (Thomas M Steenholdt) Date: Wed, 17 Jan 2007 15:47:04 +0100 Subject: plans for long term support releases? In-Reply-To: <200701170805.59771.jkeating@redhat.com> References: <45ADE83A.1010309@fedoraproject.org> <200701170805.59771.jkeating@redhat.com> Message-ID: Jesse Keating wrote: > On Wednesday 17 January 2007 04:36, Thomas M Steenholdt wrote: >> Of course. Things all have to add up. >> Still. is this even something we want for Fedora? It's quite possible >> that we just don't want to do it, for any number of the problems brought >> up throughout this thread. Then let's declare LTS out-of-scope for >> Fedora and move along. Otherwise, lets see what *could* be done about it. > > I think many of us have declared this out of scope for Fedora, you just > haven't moved on (: > Sure I've moved on! But sometime you have to take a step back and say to yourself. Hmmm, I wonder if this could be done in another, possibly better way. I've taken that step back with this thread and realized that there's not much hope some something like that. No problem, for me at least. Like I've mentioned quite a few times already, it's not an ISSUE I'm having, I was just wondering if perhaps it could happen. I'm doing fine with RHEL/CentOS for my servers, where frequent updates is not a good idea and fedora on everything else. /Thomas From pertusus at free.fr Wed Jan 17 14:59:55 2007 From: pertusus at free.fr (Patrice Dumas) Date: Wed, 17 Jan 2007 15:59:55 +0100 Subject: ensure upgrade paths through fedora to RHEL? Message-ID: <20070117145955.GA2575@free.fr> Hello, As a substitute or a complement to something similar with fedora legacy, it has more or less been suggested to allow for an upgrade path to RHEL. Should we set this as an objective for fedora? It could be something like ensuring that yum update can take you to the next fedora release and then to the corresponding RHEL, without rebooting (except for kernel upgrades, of course), or changing radically configuration file. So, for example, FC6 users could upgrade to RHEL5, and FC4 users could upgrade to FC5, then FC6, then RHEL5. In such setting I don't think that we should ensure such upgrade path for all the apps, only 'critical' apps, likely to be usefull on servers, like network daemons, for example. Also we could only do that for packages that are in RHEL+EPEL. This is currently not supported, and not an explicit goal, although there are instructions for the upgrade between FC versions: http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/YumUpgradeFaq >From reading this document, it appears that this kind of upgrade isn't possible due to kernel incompatibilities between FC4 and FC5. In case we want to ensure the upgradeability I was referring to, such situation should be avoided. Maybe this goal is too conflicting with other fedora goal, especially being bleeding edge. The big constraint is that incompatible changes which requires rebooting or changing configurations must all happen between the fedora release preceding the RHEL release and the next fedora release (in our case, all the incompatible changes should be done between FC6 and FC7). In any case I don't think we should support in any sense this kind of things, but maybe we could have this as a goal, such that maintainers have this issue in mind when they make their decisions. We could also do some tests like EVR tests similar with what is currently done for Fedora, but between the fedora version used as a base for RHEL and RHEL (in our case between FC3 and RHEL4 and FC6 and RHEL5) to ensure upgradability. And lastly we would then have to coordinate between the maintainers working on the different distros, ie between fedora and RHEL/EPEL maintainers (I guess they are more or less the same people, but maybe there may be special cases). Another thing is that I don't think this should be a short term goal. In my opinion there is already enough to be done with the merge, EPEL beginning and I guess people working on RHEL5 are busy, but maybe it could be doable to begin to experiment with such idea (if it is not immediatly rejected ;-) between RHEL5 and RHEL6 and try to make it happen for RHEL7? -- Pat From jkeating at redhat.com Wed Jan 17 15:08:07 2007 From: jkeating at redhat.com (Jesse Keating) Date: Wed, 17 Jan 2007 10:08:07 -0500 Subject: ensure upgrade paths through fedora to RHEL? In-Reply-To: <20070117145955.GA2575@free.fr> References: <20070117145955.GA2575@free.fr> Message-ID: <200701171008.10312.jkeating@redhat.com> On Wednesday 17 January 2007 09:59, Patrice Dumas wrote: > As a substitute or a complement to something similar with fedora > legacy, it has more or less been suggested to allow for an upgrade path > to RHEL. Should we set this as an objective for fedora? It could > be something like ensuring that yum update can take you to the next > fedora release and then to the corresponding RHEL, without rebooting > (except for kernel upgrades, of course), or changing radically > configuration file. So, for example, FC6 users could upgrade to > RHEL5, and FC4 users could upgrade to FC5, then FC6, > then RHEL5. In such setting I don't think that we should ensure such > upgrade path for all the apps, only 'critical' apps, likely to be > usefull on servers, like network daemons, for example. Also we could > only do that for packages that are in RHEL+EPEL. This is currently not > supported, and not an explicit goal, although there are instructions > for the upgrade between FC versions: You'd be better off going from FC5 -> RHEL5. FC6 has moved on from the point where RHEL forked it, so there are many things in RHEL5 that are older than FC6. -- Jesse Keating Release Engineer: Fedora -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 189 bytes Desc: not available URL: From jwboyer at jdub.homelinux.org Wed Jan 17 15:08:25 2007 From: jwboyer at jdub.homelinux.org (Josh Boyer) Date: Wed, 17 Jan 2007 09:08:25 -0600 Subject: ensure upgrade paths through fedora to RHEL? In-Reply-To: <20070117145955.GA2575@free.fr> References: <20070117145955.GA2575@free.fr> Message-ID: <1169046505.3677.21.camel@zod.rchland.ibm.com> On Wed, 2007-01-17 at 15:59 +0100, Patrice Dumas wrote: > Hello, > > As a substitute or a complement to something similar with fedora > legacy, it has more or less been suggested to allow for an upgrade path > to RHEL. Should we set this as an objective for fedora? It could IMO, NO. We have no control over RHEL, it's packaging, or it's upgrade policies. I asked today if you could upgrade from RHEL4 to RHEL5 and was told "not officially".? So if RHEL can't even officially support upgrading from previous versions of itself, there's no way Red Hat will support upgrading from Fedora. josh ? I was informed of this in #rhel today. The Red Hat folks might have conflicting info, but I doubt it. From lamont at gurulabs.com Wed Jan 17 15:35:03 2007 From: lamont at gurulabs.com (Lamont Peterson) Date: Wed, 17 Jan 2007 08:35:03 -0700 Subject: Smarter install - Headless In-Reply-To: <1169002041.11984.15.camel@localhost.localdomain> References: <000001c7392a$f87ed5e0$020aa8c0@a18> <200701160959.31570.lamont@gurulabs.com> <1169002041.11984.15.camel@localhost.localdomain> Message-ID: <200701170835.08519.lamont@gurulabs.com> On Tuesday 16 January 2007 07:47pm, Paul W. Frields wrote: > On Tue, 2007-01-16 at 09:59 -0700, Lamont Peterson wrote: > > On Tuesday 16 January 2007 09:38am, Jerry Williams wrote: > > > and they try really hard not to > > > use nfs if possible. > > > > Why? What's wrong with NFS? > > > > Network installs via either HTTP or FTP take longer (i.e. are slower) > > than via NFS. > > Although IIRC, NFS over TCP is a must. Yeah, I would like to see anaconda do that. On occasion, the NFS over UDP with anaconda does cause problems. -- Lamont Peterson Senior Instructor Guru Labs, L.C. [ http://www.GuruLabs.com/ ] NOTE: All messages from this email address should be digitally signed with my 0xDC0DD409 GPG key. It is available on the pgp.mit.edu keyserver as well as other keyservers that sync with MIT's. -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 189 bytes Desc: not available URL: From pertusus at free.fr Wed Jan 17 15:35:24 2007 From: pertusus at free.fr (Patrice Dumas) Date: Wed, 17 Jan 2007 16:35:24 +0100 Subject: ensure upgrade paths through fedora to RHEL? In-Reply-To: <200701171008.10312.jkeating@redhat.com> References: <20070117145955.GA2575@free.fr> <200701171008.10312.jkeating@redhat.com> Message-ID: <20070117153524.GC2575@free.fr> On Wed, Jan 17, 2007 at 10:08:07AM -0500, Jesse Keating wrote: > You'd be better off going from FC5 -> RHEL5. FC6 has moved on from the point > where RHEL forked it, so there are many things in RHEL5 that are older than > FC6. Ok, so my examples should be FC5 -> RHEL5, FC3 -> FC4 -> FC5 -> RHEL5, FC6 -> FC7 -> ... -> RHEL6. And big changes should be limited to happen between FC5 and FC6. -- Pat From pertusus at free.fr Wed Jan 17 15:40:11 2007 From: pertusus at free.fr (Patrice Dumas) Date: Wed, 17 Jan 2007 16:40:11 +0100 Subject: ensure upgrade paths through fedora to RHEL? In-Reply-To: <1169046505.3677.21.camel@zod.rchland.ibm.com> References: <20070117145955.GA2575@free.fr> <1169046505.3677.21.camel@zod.rchland.ibm.com> Message-ID: <20070117154011.GD2575@free.fr> On Wed, Jan 17, 2007 at 09:08:25AM -0600, Josh Boyer wrote: > On Wed, 2007-01-17 at 15:59 +0100, Patrice Dumas wrote: > > Hello, > > > > As a substitute or a complement to something similar with fedora > > legacy, it has more or less been suggested to allow for an upgrade path > > to RHEL. Should we set this as an objective for fedora? It could > > IMO, NO. We have no control over RHEL, it's packaging, or it's upgrade > policies. Indeed, but couldn't it be possible to build up minimal coordination on that matter? > I asked today if you could upgrade from RHEL4 to RHEL5 and was told "not > officially".? So if RHEL can't even officially support upgrading from > previous versions of itself, there's no way Red Hat will support > upgrading from Fedora. I am not talking about supporting anything. But about having maintainers who care about the issue, and try to smooth things (from both sides of the fence). This should of course be something like a non-binding goal, think of it about an upgrade path less likely to break. -- Pat From jwboyer at jdub.homelinux.org Wed Jan 17 15:49:06 2007 From: jwboyer at jdub.homelinux.org (Josh Boyer) Date: Wed, 17 Jan 2007 09:49:06 -0600 Subject: ensure upgrade paths through fedora to RHEL? In-Reply-To: <20070117154011.GD2575@free.fr> References: <20070117145955.GA2575@free.fr> <1169046505.3677.21.camel@zod.rchland.ibm.com> <20070117154011.GD2575@free.fr> Message-ID: <1169048946.3677.25.camel@zod.rchland.ibm.com> On Wed, 2007-01-17 at 16:40 +0100, Patrice Dumas wrote: > On Wed, Jan 17, 2007 at 09:08:25AM -0600, Josh Boyer wrote: > > On Wed, 2007-01-17 at 15:59 +0100, Patrice Dumas wrote: > > > Hello, > > > > > > As a substitute or a complement to something similar with fedora > > > legacy, it has more or less been suggested to allow for an upgrade path > > > to RHEL. Should we set this as an objective for fedora? It could > > > > IMO, NO. We have no control over RHEL, it's packaging, or it's upgrade > > policies. > > Indeed, but couldn't it be possible to build up minimal coordination on > that matter? Frankly, I doubt it's worth it at the moment. Fedora has much bigger things to get done. > I am not talking about supporting anything. But about having maintainers > who care about the issue, and try to smooth things (from both sides of > the fence). > > This should of course be something like a non-binding goal, think of it > about an upgrade path less likely to break. You're talking about upgrading to a product you have to purchase from Red Hat. That purchase includes support. I doubt Red Hat will support upgrading from Fedora. Unless of course you meant CentOS. In which case I still think it's not worth worrying about. josh From pertusus at free.fr Wed Jan 17 15:54:41 2007 From: pertusus at free.fr (Patrice Dumas) Date: Wed, 17 Jan 2007 16:54:41 +0100 Subject: ensure upgrade paths through fedora to RHEL? In-Reply-To: <1169048946.3677.25.camel@zod.rchland.ibm.com> References: <20070117145955.GA2575@free.fr> <1169046505.3677.21.camel@zod.rchland.ibm.com> <20070117154011.GD2575@free.fr> <1169048946.3677.25.camel@zod.rchland.ibm.com> Message-ID: <20070117155441.GE2575@free.fr> On Wed, Jan 17, 2007 at 09:49:06AM -0600, Josh Boyer wrote: > > Frankly, I doubt it's worth it at the moment. Fedora has much bigger > things to get done. I completly agree, that's what I stated in the last part of my mail. But this could be an interesting long term goal. > You're talking about upgrading to a product you have to purchase from > Red Hat. That purchase includes support. I doubt Red Hat will support > upgrading from Fedora. I can't see where the trouble is. It is not because something isn't supported that we shouldn't try to achieve it? > Unless of course you meant CentOS. In which case I still think it's not > worth worrying about. I also mean CentOS, but since CentOS packages are done by RHEL, coordination has to happen between RHEL and Fedora. I am not talking about something formal and mandatory, more about building communication. -- Pat From jkeating at redhat.com Wed Jan 17 15:58:49 2007 From: jkeating at redhat.com (Jesse Keating) Date: Wed, 17 Jan 2007 10:58:49 -0500 Subject: ensure upgrade paths through fedora to RHEL? In-Reply-To: <20070117155441.GE2575@free.fr> References: <20070117145955.GA2575@free.fr> <1169048946.3677.25.camel@zod.rchland.ibm.com> <20070117155441.GE2575@free.fr> Message-ID: <200701171058.49606.jkeating@redhat.com> On Wednesday 17 January 2007 10:54, Patrice Dumas wrote: > I also mean CentOS, but since CentOS packages are done by RHEL, > coordination has to happen between RHEL and Fedora. I am not talking > about something formal and mandatory, more about building communication. The reality of it is that what needs to happen is RHEL shouldn't use version numbers that are NVR higher than that which is currently in Fedora. Nothing we can do to help that. -- Jesse Keating Release Engineer: Fedora -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 189 bytes Desc: not available URL: From pertusus at free.fr Wed Jan 17 16:00:18 2007 From: pertusus at free.fr (Patrice Dumas) Date: Wed, 17 Jan 2007 17:00:18 +0100 Subject: ensure upgrade paths through fedora to RHEL? In-Reply-To: <200701171058.49606.jkeating@redhat.com> References: <20070117145955.GA2575@free.fr> <1169048946.3677.25.camel@zod.rchland.ibm.com> <20070117155441.GE2575@free.fr> <200701171058.49606.jkeating@redhat.com> Message-ID: <20070117160018.GF2575@free.fr> On Wed, Jan 17, 2007 at 10:58:49AM -0500, Jesse Keating wrote: > On Wednesday 17 January 2007 10:54, Patrice Dumas wrote: > > I also mean CentOS, but since CentOS packages are done by RHEL, > > coordination has to happen between RHEL and Fedora. I am not talking > > about something formal and mandatory, more about building communication. > > The reality of it is that what needs to happen is RHEL shouldn't use version > numbers that are NVR higher than that which is currently in Fedora. Nothing > we can do to help that. Actually it is the reverse. To be able to upgrade from fedora to RHEL, it is in fedora that the NVR should remain lower than the RHEL NVR. -- Pat From jkeating at redhat.com Wed Jan 17 16:13:21 2007 From: jkeating at redhat.com (Jesse Keating) Date: Wed, 17 Jan 2007 11:13:21 -0500 Subject: ensure upgrade paths through fedora to RHEL? In-Reply-To: <20070117160018.GF2575@free.fr> References: <20070117145955.GA2575@free.fr> <200701171058.49606.jkeating@redhat.com> <20070117160018.GF2575@free.fr> Message-ID: <200701171113.21527.jkeating@redhat.com> On Wednesday 17 January 2007 11:00, Patrice Dumas wrote: > Actually it is the reverse. To be able to upgrade from fedora to RHEL, > it is in fedora that the NVR should remain lower than the RHEL NVR. Except that there is a bit of a problem, the "new" RHEL comes after the Fedora, but with a package set that is older. There is an interesting mix there. And no, we're not going to hand tie the Fedora NVRs to try and make them LOWER than that of the previous Fedora release. That just doesn't work. -- Jesse Keating Release Engineer: Fedora -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 189 bytes Desc: not available URL: From pertusus at free.fr Wed Jan 17 16:56:29 2007 From: pertusus at free.fr (Patrice Dumas) Date: Wed, 17 Jan 2007 17:56:29 +0100 Subject: ensure upgrade paths through fedora to RHEL? In-Reply-To: <200701171113.21527.jkeating@redhat.com> References: <20070117145955.GA2575@free.fr> <200701171058.49606.jkeating@redhat.com> <20070117160018.GF2575@free.fr> <200701171113.21527.jkeating@redhat.com> Message-ID: <20070117165629.GG2575@free.fr> On Wed, Jan 17, 2007 at 11:13:21AM -0500, Jesse Keating wrote: > On Wednesday 17 January 2007 11:00, Patrice Dumas wrote: > > Except that there is a bit of a problem, the "new" RHEL comes after the > Fedora, but with a package set that is older. There is an interesting mix > there. And no, we're not going to hand tie the Fedora NVRs to try and make > them LOWER than that of the previous Fedora release. That just doesn't work. you mean that RHEL isn't forked from a snapshot of a fedora release, but instead from a mix of fedora releases? In that case, indeed, there is nothing practical that can be done. :( -- Pat From jkeating at redhat.com Wed Jan 17 17:05:36 2007 From: jkeating at redhat.com (Jesse Keating) Date: Wed, 17 Jan 2007 12:05:36 -0500 Subject: ensure upgrade paths through fedora to RHEL? In-Reply-To: <20070117165629.GG2575@free.fr> References: <20070117145955.GA2575@free.fr> <200701171113.21527.jkeating@redhat.com> <20070117165629.GG2575@free.fr> Message-ID: <200701171205.36808.jkeating@redhat.com> On Wednesday 17 January 2007 11:56, Patrice Dumas wrote: > you mean that RHEL isn't forked from a snapshot of a fedora release, but > instead from a mix of fedora releases? In that case, indeed, there is > nothing practical that can be done. Well, RHEL is usually forked during the development of a Fedora release, or just after the Fedora release, but it doesn't come out until much later, and many of the FC packages will get updated/upgraded well before the RHEL release comes out. So many things _in_ current FC6 will be NEWER than what is in RHEL5, even though RHEL5 is cut from FC6. -- Jesse Keating Release Engineer: Fedora -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 189 bytes Desc: not available URL: From kloczek at zie.pg.gda.pl Wed Jan 17 18:05:33 2007 From: kloczek at zie.pg.gda.pl (Tomasz =?UTF-8?Q?K=C5=82oczko?=) Date: Wed, 17 Jan 2007 19:05:33 +0100 Subject: rawhide report: 20070117 changes In-Reply-To: <200701171142.l0HBgoev000680@hs20-bc2-6.build.redhat.com> References: <200701171142.l0HBgoev000680@hs20-bc2-6.build.redhat.com> Message-ID: <1169057133.13577.4.camel@kloczek01.pracownicy.zie> Dnia 17-01-2007, ?ro o godzinie 06:42 -0500, buildsys at redhat.com napisa?(a): > libtiff-3.8.2-7.fc7 > ------------------- > * Tue Jan 16 2007 Tom Lane 3.8.2-7 > - Remove Makefiles from the shipped /usr/share/doc/html directories > Resolves: bz #222729 This was fixed by add in %install: # don't include documentation Makefiles, they are a multilib hazard find html -name 'Makefile*' | xargs rm This kind fixes allways will break "rpmbuild -bi --short-circuit .spec". Correct solution in this case can be added by add to devel %files: %doc html/*html html/images/*gif html/images/*jpg To all FC developers: please remember about not braking --short-circuit build because this can save MANY time specialy when %build stage takes longer. kloczek From pertusus at free.fr Wed Jan 17 18:03:56 2007 From: pertusus at free.fr (Patrice Dumas) Date: Wed, 17 Jan 2007 19:03:56 +0100 Subject: ensure upgrade paths through fedora to RHEL? In-Reply-To: <200701171205.36808.jkeating@redhat.com> References: <20070117145955.GA2575@free.fr> <200701171113.21527.jkeating@redhat.com> <20070117165629.GG2575@free.fr> <200701171205.36808.jkeating@redhat.com> Message-ID: <20070117180356.GI2575@free.fr> On Wed, Jan 17, 2007 at 12:05:36PM -0500, Jesse Keating wrote: > > Well, RHEL is usually forked during the development of a Fedora release, or > just after the Fedora release, but it doesn't come out until much later, and > many of the FC packages will get updated/upgraded well before the RHEL > release comes out. So many things _in_ current FC6 will be NEWER than what > is in RHEL5, even though RHEL5 is cut from FC6. Ok. In fact my proposal makes only sense if it is possible to update from a fedora release to the RHEL forked from that fedora release, which isn't possible if the fork happens at the beginning of the release and wouldn't be practical anyway because we should make sure that EVR remain lower than EVR in RHEL. An alternative proposal could be the following, in which the release from which RHEL is forked cannot have an 'easy' update to RHEL nor to the following fedora version, while other can. In that case, supposing that RHEL fork corresponds with FC3 and FC6 the story could be the following: Major changes should happen between FC3 and FC4. FC3 cannot be updated to RHEL4. For FC4, one should try to have FC4 -> FC5 update possible with yum without reboot, and then coordination with RHEL is needed to have FC5 -> RHEL5 update possible with yum without reboot. FC6 serves as base for RHEL5 and cannot be updated to RHEL5, and big changes with a need to reboot and change conf happen between FC6 and FC7, and so on. In this case, FC3 and FC6 are 'sacrified' because they cannot be updated to RHEL since they were used for the fork, and cannot be updated (without reboot or conf file changes) to the next fedora release because it is after them that the major changes must happen. Hope it is understandable... Anyway with one over 3 version 'sacrified', this is much less appealing... -- Pat From pertusus at free.fr Wed Jan 17 18:08:22 2007 From: pertusus at free.fr (Patrice Dumas) Date: Wed, 17 Jan 2007 19:08:22 +0100 Subject: rawhide report: 20070117 changes In-Reply-To: <1169057133.13577.4.camel@kloczek01.pracownicy.zie> References: <200701171142.l0HBgoev000680@hs20-bc2-6.build.redhat.com> <1169057133.13577.4.camel@kloczek01.pracownicy.zie> Message-ID: <20070117180822.GJ2575@free.fr> > > To all FC developers: please remember about not braking --short-circuit build > because this can save MANY time specialy when %build stage takes longer. Could it be possible to check that --short-circuit build are possible automatically? -- Pat From thias at spam.spam.spam.spam.spam.spam.spam.egg.and.spam.freshrpms.net Wed Jan 17 18:14:07 2007 From: thias at spam.spam.spam.spam.spam.spam.spam.egg.and.spam.freshrpms.net (Matthias Saou) Date: Wed, 17 Jan 2007 19:14:07 +0100 Subject: rawhide report: 20070117 changes In-Reply-To: <1169057133.13577.4.camel@kloczek01.pracownicy.zie> References: <200701171142.l0HBgoev000680@hs20-bc2-6.build.redhat.com> <1169057133.13577.4.camel@kloczek01.pracownicy.zie> Message-ID: <20070117191407.2038794e@python3.es.egwn.lan> Tomasz K?oczko wrote : > Dnia 17-01-2007, ?ro o godzinie 06:42 -0500, buildsys at redhat.com > napisa?(a): > > libtiff-3.8.2-7.fc7 > > ------------------- > > * Tue Jan 16 2007 Tom Lane 3.8.2-7 > > - Remove Makefiles from the shipped /usr/share/doc/html directories > > Resolves: bz #222729 > > This was fixed by add in %install: > > # don't include documentation Makefiles, they are a multilib hazard > find html -name 'Makefile*' | xargs rm > > This kind fixes allways will break "rpmbuild -bi --short-circuit .spec". > > Correct solution in this case can be added by add to devel %files: > > %doc html/*html html/images/*gif html/images/*jpg Another correct solution, which I prefer, would be to have something like this : %install rm -rf %{buildroot} _html cp -a html _html find _html -name 'Makefile*' -exec rm -f {} \; ... %doc _html/* This way, the stuff in "html/" can change quite a bit without breaking in the package (by being only partially copied). Matthias -- Clean custom Red Hat Linux rpm packages : http://freshrpms.net/ Fedora Core release 6 (Zod) - Linux kernel 2.6.19-1.2895.fc6 Load : 0.21 0.24 0.21 From tgl at redhat.com Wed Jan 17 18:18:54 2007 From: tgl at redhat.com (Tom Lane) Date: Wed, 17 Jan 2007 13:18:54 -0500 Subject: rawhide report: 20070117 changes In-Reply-To: <1169057133.13577.4.camel@kloczek01.pracownicy.zie> References: <200701171142.l0HBgoev000680@hs20-bc2-6.build.redhat.com> <1169057133.13577.4.camel@kloczek01.pracownicy.zie> Message-ID: <3375.1169057934@sss.pgh.pa.us> Tomasz =?UTF-8?Q?K=C5=82oczko?= writes: > This was fixed by add in %install: > # don't include documentation Makefiles, they are a multilib hazard > find html -name 'Makefile*' | xargs rm Yup, I've done similar things in other packages too. > This kind fixes allways will break "rpmbuild -bi --short-circuit .spec". What is --short-circuit, and why isn't the above evidence that *it* is broken? Those subdirectory makefiles shouldn't be needed anymore after the %install step. > Correct solution in this case can be added by add to devel %files: > %doc html/*html html/images/*gif html/images/*jpg I do not like that solution because it fails --- silently --- if upstream modifies the set of files they distribute in such a way that my %doc wildcards are wrong. In this example, consider what happens if upstream decides to start using .png files for their illustrations. regards, tom lane From kloczek at zie.pg.gda.pl Wed Jan 17 18:23:42 2007 From: kloczek at zie.pg.gda.pl (Tomasz =?UTF-8?Q?K=C5=82oczko?=) Date: Wed, 17 Jan 2007 19:23:42 +0100 Subject: rawhide report: 20070117 changes In-Reply-To: <20070117180822.GJ2575@free.fr> References: <200701171142.l0HBgoev000680@hs20-bc2-6.build.redhat.com> <1169057133.13577.4.camel@kloczek01.pracownicy.zie> <20070117180822.GJ2575@free.fr> Message-ID: <1169058222.15517.8.camel@kloczek01.pracownicy.zie> Dnia 17-01-2007, ?ro o godzinie 19:08 +0100, Patrice Dumas napisa?(a): [..] > Could it be possible to check that --short-circuit build are possible > automatically? Yes, afref normal build "rpmbuild -ba .spec" you can additionaly run "rpmbuild -bi --short-circuit .spec" and If it will exit with ! =0 isn't --short-circuit compliant. After perform --short-circuit test and save this test status it will be good run additionaly "rpmbuild --clean References: <200701171142.l0HBgoev000680@hs20-bc2-6.build.redhat.com> <1169057133.13577.4.camel@kloczek01.pracownicy.zie> <20070117191407.2038794e@python3.es.egwn.lan> Message-ID: <1169058893.15517.19.camel@kloczek01.pracownicy.zie> Dnia 17-01-2007, ?ro o godzinie 19:14 +0100, Matthias Saou napisa?(a): > Another correct solution, which I prefer, would be to have something > like this : > > %install > rm -rf %{buildroot} _html > cp -a html _html > find _html -name 'Makefile*' -exec rm -f {} \; Please run two times "rpmbuild -bi --short-circuit" and try look in _html :) .. and you soution will take more space/IOs from storage :) Removed anything in on %buid and %install stage probably potentialy can be source of some kind of bugs and IMO better will be add new rpm developers rule like: "Removing anything in %buid/%install stage is prohibited" :o) kloczek From thias at spam.spam.spam.spam.spam.spam.spam.egg.and.spam.freshrpms.net Wed Jan 17 18:44:48 2007 From: thias at spam.spam.spam.spam.spam.spam.spam.egg.and.spam.freshrpms.net (Matthias Saou) Date: Wed, 17 Jan 2007 19:44:48 +0100 Subject: rawhide report: 20070117 changes In-Reply-To: <1169058893.15517.19.camel@kloczek01.pracownicy.zie> References: <200701171142.l0HBgoev000680@hs20-bc2-6.build.redhat.com> <1169057133.13577.4.camel@kloczek01.pracownicy.zie> <20070117191407.2038794e@python3.es.egwn.lan> <1169058893.15517.19.camel@kloczek01.pracownicy.zie> Message-ID: <20070117194448.03ee832c@python3.es.egwn.lan> Tomasz K?oczko wrote : > Dnia 17-01-2007, ?ro o godzinie 19:14 +0100, Matthias Saou napisa?(a): > > Another correct solution, which I prefer, would be to have something > > like this : > > > > %install > > rm -rf %{buildroot} _html > > cp -a html _html > > find _html -name 'Makefile*' -exec rm -f {} \; > > Please run two times "rpmbuild -bi --short-circuit" and try look in > _html :) This is exactly what the added "_html" on the first "rm" line takes care of. > .. and you soution will take more space/IOs from storage :) Yes it will, but it's less prone to break later on, which is what I value most. I've been using --short-circuit for years and have learned to always make %install sections that are compatible with it. Matthias -- Clean custom Red Hat Linux rpm packages : http://freshrpms.net/ Fedora Core release 6 (Zod) - Linux kernel 2.6.19-1.2895.fc6 Load : 3.04 1.86 1.17 From kloczek at zie.pg.gda.pl Wed Jan 17 19:08:24 2007 From: kloczek at zie.pg.gda.pl (Tomasz =?UTF-8?Q?K=C5=82oczko?=) Date: Wed, 17 Jan 2007 20:08:24 +0100 Subject: rawhide report: 20070117 changes In-Reply-To: <20070117194448.03ee832c@python3.es.egwn.lan> References: <200701171142.l0HBgoev000680@hs20-bc2-6.build.redhat.com> <1169057133.13577.4.camel@kloczek01.pracownicy.zie> <20070117191407.2038794e@python3.es.egwn.lan> <1169058893.15517.19.camel@kloczek01.pracownicy.zie> <20070117194448.03ee832c@python3.es.egwn.lan> Message-ID: <1169060904.15517.46.camel@kloczek01.pracownicy.zie> Dnia 17-01-2007, ?ro o godzinie 19:44 +0100, Matthias Saou napisa?(a): [..] > This is exactly what the added "_html" on the first "rm" line takes > care of. Sorry. You are right :) Personalny I dislike any spec file with "non-standard" skeleton because for me allways %install begin like: %install rm -rf $RPM_BUILD_ROOT is element of standard spec skeleton as same like: %clean rm -rf $RPM_BUILD_ROOT Usually I'm not looking on first line of %install and this why I'm omit this ;-) BTW: spec file in biggest FC package for openoffice.org isn't --short-circuit compliant because %install depends on prelink hacks in % build. Probably best prevention for maintain this kind hacks will be change in system macros from current: %__spec_install_pre %{___build_pre} to: %__spec_install_pre \ %{___build_pre} \ rm -rf $RPM_BUILD_ROOT \ %{nil} :_) kloczek From vonbrand at inf.utfsm.cl Wed Jan 17 19:51:17 2007 From: vonbrand at inf.utfsm.cl (Horst H. von Brand) Date: Wed, 17 Jan 2007 16:51:17 -0300 Subject: rawhide report: 20070117 changes In-Reply-To: <20070117191407.2038794e@python3.es.egwn.lan> References: <200701171142.l0HBgoev000680@hs20-bc2-6.build.redhat.com> <1169057133.13577.4.camel@kloczek01.pracownicy.zie> <20070117191407.2038794e@python3.es.egwn.lan> Message-ID: <200701171951.l0HJpHf2031517@laptop13.inf.utfsm.cl> Matthias Saou wrote: [...] > > Correct solution in this case can be added by add to devel %files: > > > > %doc html/*html html/images/*gif html/images/*jpg > Another correct solution, which I prefer, would be to have something > like this : > > %install > rm -rf %{buildroot} _html > cp -a html _html > find _html -name 'Makefile*' -exec rm -f {} \; > > ... > > %doc _html/* > This way, the stuff in "html/" can change quite a bit without breaking > in the package (by being only partially copied). I prefer to say what is /in/, not what is /left out/, who knows what other junk shows up there later. It isn't more work for the maintainer. -- Dr. Horst H. von Brand User #22616 counter.li.org Departamento de Informatica Fono: +56 32 2654431 Universidad Tecnica Federico Santa Maria +56 32 2654239 Casilla 110-V, Valparaiso, Chile Fax: +56 32 2797513 From dyek at real.com Wed Jan 17 20:26:32 2007 From: dyek at real.com (Daniel Yek) Date: Wed, 17 Jan 2007 12:26:32 -0800 Subject: RPM and files installed Message-ID: <6.2.1.2.2.20070117120928.2f59bea8@mailone.real.com> Hi, How do I make sure that files created during rpm installation are being recorded as belonging to the package? I'm not sure, but I think if rpm %post install script created some symbolic links, they might not be recorded as installed by the rpm package. (Or are they?) How RPM keeps track of files created by scripts? Does it trap system calls to record all created files and symbolic links? If not, what one needs to do to make sure that all files and symbolic links created are being accounted for properly? Thanks. -- Daniel Yek From jkeating at redhat.com Wed Jan 17 20:30:17 2007 From: jkeating at redhat.com (Jesse Keating) Date: Wed, 17 Jan 2007 15:30:17 -0500 Subject: RPM and files installed In-Reply-To: <6.2.1.2.2.20070117120928.2f59bea8@mailone.real.com> References: <6.2.1.2.2.20070117120928.2f59bea8@mailone.real.com> Message-ID: <200701171530.17322.jkeating@redhat.com> On Wednesday 17 January 2007 15:26, Daniel Yek wrote: > How do I make sure that files created during rpm installation are being > recorded as belonging to the package? I'm not sure, but I think if rpm > %post install script created some symbolic links, they might not be > recorded as installed by the rpm package. (Or are they?) > > How RPM keeps track of files created by scripts? Does it trap system calls > to record all created files and symbolic links? If not, what one needs to > do to make sure that all files and symbolic links created are being > accounted for properly? Simple. Don't create files in %post. They aren't tracked. If you need a symlink, do it in %install and then track the symlink in %files. -- Jesse Keating Release Engineer: Fedora -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 189 bytes Desc: not available URL: From mschwendt.tmp0701.nospam at arcor.de Wed Jan 17 20:40:41 2007 From: mschwendt.tmp0701.nospam at arcor.de (Michael Schwendt) Date: Wed, 17 Jan 2007 21:40:41 +0100 Subject: RPM and files installed In-Reply-To: <6.2.1.2.2.20070117120928.2f59bea8@mailone.real.com> References: <6.2.1.2.2.20070117120928.2f59bea8@mailone.real.com> Message-ID: <20070117214041.ba4426e8.mschwendt.tmp0701.nospam@arcor.de> On Wed, 17 Jan 2007 12:26:32 -0800, Daniel Yek wrote: > How do I make sure that files created during rpm installation are being > recorded as belonging to the package? I'm not sure, but I think if rpm > %post install script created some symbolic links, they might not be > recorded as installed by the rpm package. (Or are they?) > > How RPM keeps track of files created by scripts? Does it trap system calls > to record all created files and symbolic links? If not, what one needs to > do to make sure that all files and symbolic links created are being > accounted for properly? You "touch" them in the %install section of your spec file and %ghost them in the %files section. That way they belong into the package. And upon package removal RPM will remove the files. Just make sure you don't %ghost any files which are filled with important contents at run-time. It might be unexpected by the user if such files (e.g. databases) are removed automatically when the package is uninstalled. From mclasen at redhat.com Wed Jan 17 20:36:11 2007 From: mclasen at redhat.com (Matthias Clasen) Date: Wed, 17 Jan 2007 15:36:11 -0500 Subject: RPM and files installed In-Reply-To: <200701171530.17322.jkeating@redhat.com> References: <6.2.1.2.2.20070117120928.2f59bea8@mailone.real.com> <200701171530.17322.jkeating@redhat.com> Message-ID: <1169066171.4920.0.camel@localhost.localdomain> On Wed, 2007-01-17 at 15:30 -0500, Jesse Keating wrote: > On Wednesday 17 January 2007 15:26, Daniel Yek wrote: > > How do I make sure that files created during rpm installation are being > > recorded as belonging to the package? I'm not sure, but I think if rpm > > %post install script created some symbolic links, they might not be > > recorded as installed by the rpm package. (Or are they?) > > > > How RPM keeps track of files created by scripts? Does it trap system calls > > to record all created files and symbolic links? If not, what one needs to > > do to make sure that all files and symbolic links created are being > > accounted for properly? > > Simple. Don't create files in %post. They aren't tracked. If you need a > symlink, do it in %install and then track the symlink in %files. Or you can add %ghost entries, right ? From vonbrand at inf.utfsm.cl Wed Jan 17 20:43:16 2007 From: vonbrand at inf.utfsm.cl (Horst H. von Brand) Date: Wed, 17 Jan 2007 17:43:16 -0300 Subject: plans for long term support releases? In-Reply-To: References: <1169009497.3457.48.camel@laptopd505.fenrus.org> Message-ID: <200701172043.l0HKhG5A001597@laptop13.inf.utfsm.cl> Thomas M Steenholdt wrote: [...] > In my mind, something like this could be accomplished in several > ways. If backporting is too much work (I know it takes time) then > perhaps it could be done by following upstream releases like we do > today, but for a longer time. One of the reasons /not/ to ugrade and wanting to stick with the same distribution release is precisely because new upstream releases break stuff... Yes, GCC 4 is a /much/ better C++ compiler than 3 [OK, OK, the language 4 accepts contains something that at least resembles C++, that cannot be said of 3], but many things that compiled and worked fine with 3 just won't build on 4 without /much/ work. Yes, Python 2.6 is nicer than 2.5, but many packages break (remember? ;-) Yes, PHP 5 is safer than 4, but websites built with 4 won't work OOB. And a long etc. So the way out is backporting patches, or better backfixing (== finding out how to trigger the bug, figure out if it (or something similar) is present in the old version, fixing the bug, checking that this really fixes the problem and doesn't create new ones). Tedious, hard work. Sure, you'll find people eager to do it (mostly terminal masochists), you might be able to find people able to do it right (but they probably are much more excited by the idea of hacking on the latest&greatest). You won't find anybody willing to test the result (at least not enough to make a difference). So... If it is /that/ important to somebody, they'll be willing to shell out for a long-term maintained distribution like RHEL (or band together and do the work). If not, they aren't really interested, more than an "it would be real nice if I did not have to upgrade Fedora each year or so" [...] > Perhaps the solution is to re-launch legacy in a more integrated > way?!? I heard the cut back, but I don't know how much. AFAIU, it dried on the wine. -- Dr. Horst H. von Brand User #22616 counter.li.org Departamento de Informatica Fono: +56 32 2654431 Universidad Tecnica Federico Santa Maria +56 32 2654239 Casilla 110-V, Valparaiso, Chile Fax: +56 32 2797513 From vonbrand at inf.utfsm.cl Wed Jan 17 20:48:02 2007 From: vonbrand at inf.utfsm.cl (Horst H. von Brand) Date: Wed, 17 Jan 2007 17:48:02 -0300 Subject: Name for a FESCo Successor? Suggestions anyone? In-Reply-To: <20070116203220.GA14296@ryvius.pekin.waw.pl> References: <45AD12F9.3050204@leemhuis.info> <20070116202551.GG12544@neu.nirvana> <20070116203220.GA14296@ryvius.pekin.waw.pl> Message-ID: <200701172048.l0HKm2Rv001859@laptop13.inf.utfsm.cl> Dominik 'Rathann' Mierzejewski wrote: > On Tuesday, 16 January 2007 at 21:25, Axel Thimm wrote: > > On Tue, Jan 16, 2007 at 07:01:29PM +0100, Thorsten Leemhuis wrote: > > > But one issue is still totally undecided and needs to be solved soon: > > > What do we call that FESCo and Core Cabal successor? > > > > How about some more relaxed names like > > > > Fedora Elders Count me in for this. > > or > > > > Fedora Masters Nope. Many could master Fedora; and in the sense of "The masters [bosses] of Fedora" it doesn't sound relaxed enough. -- Dr. Horst H. von Brand User #22616 counter.li.org Departamento de Informatica Fono: +56 32 2654431 Universidad Tecnica Federico Santa Maria +56 32 2654239 Casilla 110-V, Valparaiso, Chile Fax: +56 32 2797513 From Axel.Thimm at ATrpms.net Wed Jan 17 22:01:52 2007 From: Axel.Thimm at ATrpms.net (Axel Thimm) Date: Wed, 17 Jan 2007 23:01:52 +0100 Subject: Name for a FESCo Successor? Suggestions anyone? In-Reply-To: <200701172048.l0HKm2Rv001859@laptop13.inf.utfsm.cl> References: <45AD12F9.3050204@leemhuis.info> <20070116202551.GG12544@neu.nirvana> <20070116203220.GA14296@ryvius.pekin.waw.pl> <200701172048.l0HKm2Rv001859@laptop13.inf.utfsm.cl> Message-ID: <20070117220152.GB9816@neu.nirvana> On Wed, Jan 17, 2007 at 05:48:02PM -0300, Horst H. von Brand wrote: > Dominik 'Rathann' Mierzejewski wrote: > > On Tuesday, 16 January 2007 at 21:25, Axel Thimm wrote: > > > On Tue, Jan 16, 2007 at 07:01:29PM +0100, Thorsten Leemhuis wrote: > > > > But one issue is still totally undecided and needs to be solved soon: > > > > What do we call that FESCo and Core Cabal successor? > > > > > > How about some more relaxed names like > > > > > > Fedora Elders > > Count me in for this. > > > > or > > > > > > Fedora Masters > > Nope. Many could master Fedora; and in the sense of "The masters [bosses] > of Fedora" it doesn't sound relaxed enough. Well, I'd argue that Fedora Bosses would be a fun, self-ironic name, but probably too relaxed. :) -- Axel.Thimm at ATrpms.net -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 189 bytes Desc: not available URL: From redhat at olen.net Wed Jan 17 22:10:14 2007 From: redhat at olen.net (Ola Thoresen) Date: Wed, 17 Jan 2007 23:10:14 +0100 Subject: plans for long term support releases? In-Reply-To: <200701172043.l0HKhG5A001597@laptop13.inf.utfsm.cl> References: <1169009497.3457.48.camel@laptopd505.fenrus.org> <200701172043.l0HKhG5A001597@laptop13.inf.utfsm.cl> Message-ID: <45AE9EC6.4020005@olen.net> Horst H. von Brand wrote: > One of the reasons /not/ to ugrade and wanting to stick with the same > distribution release is precisely because new upstream releases break > stuff... > > Yes, GCC 4 ... > Yes, Python 2.6 ... > Yes, PHP 5 ... And they allways will. And at one point you MUST upgrade. If it is after 1 or 5 years does not really matter. You might have more time between upgrades, but on the other hand, you will have more incompabilities between the releases. What I want us to focus on, is to make upgrades as easy and smooth as possible, and make sure we _document_ the important changes, and help users and admins in the best way possible to make sure they can trust the upgrade to not cause days and days of work just to get back to where they were before the upgrade. - These are the things you need to test when upgrading from GCC 3 yo 4. - Here are a couple of scripts that checks your inhouse code for the most common problems with old python-scripts on the new version. - Here is a quick list of important incompabilities between PHP4 and 5, so you can grep all your php-files for these function-names. That way we know what to look for, and we can warn the users about the forthcoming change. One of the worst examples of this is the change to UTF-8 as default charset. I am a devoted UTF-8 user myself, but it is probably the single change that has caused most pain for others, and it is stil causing trouble. When we changed to UTF-8 as default, there were no easy way to convert filesystems, documents, text-files, webpages... The first thing almost everyone I know that are installing Fedora, Redhat or Suse is doing is to change /etc/sysconfig/i18n to go back to en_US as default LANG. Simply because it takes a h... of a lot of work to convert all your files and applications and there are no good tools out there to help you. We should also try to make config-converters so old configurations can be translated semi automatic. If I get a new GCC on one upgrade, a new PHP and perl on the next and a new python on the third, I can at least concentrate on one or two major changes. With good documentation I can run a few tests, check the output of some commands, and trust that most things will work. But i really do not look forward to the upgrades from RHEL4 to RHEL5, where we get 5 years of upgrades in one go. -- _,--', _._.--._____ .--.--';_'-.', ";_ _.,-' Ola Thoresen .'--'. _.' {`'-;_ .-.>.' '-:_ ) / `' '=. It is easier to fix Unix ) > {_/, /~) than to live with Windows |/ `^ .' From mike at miketc.com Wed Jan 17 22:14:36 2007 From: mike at miketc.com (Mike Chambers) Date: Wed, 17 Jan 2007 16:14:36 -0600 Subject: Rawhide installable via NFS Message-ID: <1169072076.2596.4.camel@scrappy.miketc.com> I keep getting "server can't mount that directory" or something like that when I put in the server/dir names. And if it's not installable that way, can it be done via ftp/http at least? I don't think I've been able to do a rawhide install for a month or two. -- Mike Chambers Madisonville, KY "Sex is like air, it's not important unless your not getting any!" From adrian at lisas.de Wed Jan 17 22:36:06 2007 From: adrian at lisas.de (Adrian Reber) Date: Wed, 17 Jan 2007 23:36:06 +0100 Subject: Rawhide installable via NFS In-Reply-To: <1169072076.2596.4.camel@scrappy.miketc.com> References: <1169072076.2596.4.camel@scrappy.miketc.com> Message-ID: <20070117223605.GE6722@lisas.de> On Wed, Jan 17, 2007 at 04:14:36PM -0600, Mike Chambers wrote: > I keep getting "server can't mount that directory" or something like > that when I put in the server/dir names. > > And if it's not installable that way, can it be done via ftp/http at > least? > > I don't think I've been able to do a rawhide install for a month or two. I have done an install of rawhide last week over ftp. Adrian From kevin.kofler at chello.at Wed Jan 17 23:47:11 2007 From: kevin.kofler at chello.at (Kevin Kofler) Date: Wed, 17 Jan 2007 23:47:11 +0000 (UTC) Subject: plans for long term support releases? References: <1169009497.3457.48.camel@laptopd505.fenrus.org> <200701172043.l0HKhG5A001597@laptop13.inf.utfsm.cl> <45AE9EC6.4020005@olen.net> Message-ID: Ola Thoresen olen.net> writes: > en_US as default LANG. Simply because it takes a h... of a lot of work > to convert all your files and applications and there are no good tools > out there to help you. For the file system, we now have such a tool, it's called convmv. It's in Extras. Kevin Kofler From dwmw2 at infradead.org Thu Jan 18 00:09:26 2007 From: dwmw2 at infradead.org (David Woodhouse) Date: Thu, 18 Jan 2007 11:09:26 +1100 Subject: Smarter install - Headless In-Reply-To: <200701160922.33777.lamont@gurulabs.com> References: <000001c7392a$f87ed5e0$020aa8c0@a18> <200701160922.33777.lamont@gurulabs.com> Message-ID: <1169078966.4185.34.camel@shinybook.infradead.org> On Tue, 2007-01-16 at 09:22 -0700, Lamont Peterson wrote: > Why? Why not just use DHCP "nextserver" and "filename" options to get the > kickstart file via NFS? Surely those are already pointed to the TFTP server which carries images/netboot/ppc{32,64}.img (or whatever the equivalent is for IA32 or AMD64). I don't think it's a good idea to abuse them for kickstart. You _could_ potentially have vendor-specific DHCP options though. -- dwmw2 From dyek at real.com Thu Jan 18 00:42:11 2007 From: dyek at real.com (Daniel Yek) Date: Wed, 17 Jan 2007 16:42:11 -0800 Subject: RPM and files installed xdg-utils In-Reply-To: <20070117214041.ba4426e8.mschwendt.tmp0701.nospam@arcor.de> References: <6.2.1.2.2.20070117120928.2f59bea8@mailone.real.com> <20070117214041.ba4426e8.mschwendt.tmp0701.nospam@arcor.de> Message-ID: <6.2.1.2.2.20070117161643.2f364e28@mailone.real.com> Thank you all for responding. More questions below... At 12:40 PM 1/17/2007, Michael Schwendt wrote: >On Wed, 17 Jan 2007 12:26:32 -0800, Daniel Yek wrote: > > > How do I make sure that files created during rpm installation are being > > recorded as belonging to the package? I'm not sure, but I think if rpm > > %post install script created some symbolic links, they might not be > > recorded as installed by the rpm package. (Or are they?) > > > > How RPM keeps track of files created by scripts? Does it trap system calls > > to record all created files and symbolic links? If not, what one needs to > > do to make sure that all files and symbolic links created are being > > accounted for properly? > >You "touch" them in the %install section of your spec file and >%ghost them in the %files section. That way they belong into the >package. And upon package removal RPM will remove the files. Just >make sure you don't %ghost any files which are filled with important >contents at run-time. It might be unexpected by the user if such >files (e.g. databases) are removed automatically when the package >is uninstalled. Thanks for the "%ghost", but is it documented? I didn't find it in the following URL after a quick search: http://www.rpm.org/max-rpm/ch-rpm-inside.html Is %ghost supposed to be just like %file, but won't show up in "rpm -qpl" ? Regarding "touch"...Can one create redundant list of file in %file without actually doing anything with it in %install? What would happen to "rpm -qpl" in this case? Lets say a software package is utilizing utilities to install icon resources, etc. Lets says xdg-utils is bundled and used during RPM installation. http://portland.freedesktop.org/xdg-utils-1.0/ xdg-utils scripts installed a bunch of files at unknown locations. What can I do to have those files remain tracked? If I can't read the scripts and create a list of all possible installation locations, is there something else I can do? Then, assume that a future Fedora release preinstalled a (system-wide) xdg-utils package. Now, as designed, this system-wide xdg-utils installs icons to, then, finalized/spec-ed standard locations (a assumption; and the finalized locations are, of course, different from the current locations, which isn't ideal). Also, as designed, it is the system-wide copy of xdg-utils is invoked during the installation of a package released some times ago. So, there is no way the developer can predict where the future system-wide xdg-utils will install the files to. Is there a solution for this scenario? If not, what is the best course of action? Thanks. -- Daniel Yek From yanmin_zhang at linux.intel.com Thu Jan 18 01:01:02 2007 From: yanmin_zhang at linux.intel.com (Zhang, Yanmin) Date: Thu, 18 Jan 2007 09:01:02 +0800 Subject: [Fedora-ia64-list] Re: anaconda-runtime error In-Reply-To: <200701160846.22485.jkeating@redhat.com> References: <1168319262.15989.211.camel@ymzhang> <1168569442.15989.240.camel@ymzhang> <1168937827.15989.250.camel@ymzhang> <200701160846.22485.jkeating@redhat.com> Message-ID: <1169082062.15989.252.camel@ymzhang> On Tue, 2007-01-16 at 08:46 -0500, Jesse Keating wrote: > On Tuesday 16 January 2007 03:57, Zhang, Yanmin wrote: > > The root cause is class Network in file network.py puts useIPv4/6 as per > > NetworkDevice attributes while class NetworkDeviceWindow still thinks > > useIPv4/6 are net attributes. > > What version of anaconda are you using? This shouldn't happen in FC6's > anaconda, and this was fixed a few revisions ago in rawhide's anaconda. anaconda-11.2.0.9-1. Pls. see #219449. Yanmin From yanmin_zhang at linux.intel.com Thu Jan 18 01:02:52 2007 From: yanmin_zhang at linux.intel.com (Zhang, Yanmin) Date: Thu, 18 Jan 2007 09:02:52 +0800 Subject: [Fedora-ia64-list] Re: anaconda-runtime error In-Reply-To: <45ACE867.5090605@redhat.com> References: <1168319262.15989.211.camel@ymzhang> <1168569442.15989.240.camel@ymzhang> <1168937827.15989.250.camel@ymzhang> <200701160846.22485.jkeating@redhat.com> <45ACE867.5090605@redhat.com> Message-ID: <1169082172.15989.255.camel@ymzhang> On Tue, 2007-01-16 at 09:59 -0500, Prarit Bhargava wrote: > > Jesse Keating wrote: > > On Tuesday 16 January 2007 03:57, Zhang, Yanmin wrote: > > > >> The root cause is class Network in file network.py puts useIPv4/6 as per > >> NetworkDevice attributes while class NetworkDeviceWindow still thinks > >> useIPv4/6 are net attributes. > >> > > > > What version of anaconda are you using? This shouldn't happen in FC6's > > anaconda, and this was fixed a few revisions ago in rawhide's anaconda. > > > > Jesse, I just entered a bug in on this: BZ 222840. I posted the info to #219449. As you know, I ran into lots of anaconda issues. I don't intend to create so many new bug reports to flood bugzilla, at least before I succeed in creating a new workable dvd image of the latest development tree. :) Yanmin From zing at fastmail.fm Thu Jan 18 01:13:29 2007 From: zing at fastmail.fm (Zing) Date: Wed, 17 Jan 2007 20:13:29 -0500 Subject: plans for long term support releases? References: <1169009497.3457.48.camel@laptopd505.fenrus.org> <200701172043.l0HKhG5A001597@laptop13.inf.utfsm.cl> <45AE9EC6.4020005@olen.net> Message-ID: On Wed, 17 Jan 2007 23:10:14 +0100, Ola Thoresen wrote: > But i really do not look forward to the upgrades from RHEL4 to RHEL5, > where we get 5 years of upgrades in one go. hmmm, but I don't think upgrades between major RHEL releases are supported? At least not officially AFAIUI. As far as documenting changes between releases... I've thought the RELEASE-NOTES for the past two releases have been better than good. In fact really good. I'm sure contributions of scripts to ease migration between Core releases would be accepted graciously. :) From mschwendt.tmp0701.nospam at arcor.de Thu Jan 18 01:26:13 2007 From: mschwendt.tmp0701.nospam at arcor.de (Michael Schwendt) Date: Thu, 18 Jan 2007 02:26:13 +0100 Subject: RPM and files installed xdg-utils In-Reply-To: <6.2.1.2.2.20070117161643.2f364e28@mailone.real.com> References: <6.2.1.2.2.20070117120928.2f59bea8@mailone.real.com> <20070117214041.ba4426e8.mschwendt.tmp0701.nospam@arcor.de> <6.2.1.2.2.20070117161643.2f364e28@mailone.real.com> Message-ID: <20070118022613.d3d205f6.mschwendt.tmp0701.nospam@arcor.de> On Wed, 17 Jan 2007 16:42:11 -0800, Daniel Yek wrote: > Thanks for the "%ghost", but is it documented? I didn't find it in the > following URL after a quick search: > http://www.rpm.org/max-rpm/ch-rpm-inside.html Here: http://www.rpm.org/max-rpm-snapshot/ http://www.rpm.org/max-rpm-snapshot/s1-rpm-inside-files-list-directives.html The snapshot is a community enhanced/extended online version of Ed Bailey's original book. > Regarding "touch"...Can one create redundant list of file in %file without > actually doing anything with it in %install? What would happen to "rpm > -qpl" in this case? All files in the %files section must exist in the BuildRoot. Else rpmbuild refuses to build your package. > Lets say a software package is utilizing utilities to install icon > resources, etc. Lets says xdg-utils is bundled and used during RPM > installation. > > http://portland.freedesktop.org/xdg-utils-1.0/ > > xdg-utils scripts installed a bunch of files at unknown locations. What can > I do to have those files remain tracked? If I can't read the scripts and > create a list of all possible installation locations, is there something > else I can do? At package build-time you would install everything *only* into the temporary BuildRoot. At the end of the %install section you can list the BuildRoot contents and create matching file lists for the %files section, where you can include generated list files on-the-fly. Everything done outside the package BuildRoot and/or applied to your installed system after package installation is beyond the scope of RPM. From bruno at wolff.to Thu Jan 18 05:31:57 2007 From: bruno at wolff.to (Bruno Wolff III) Date: Wed, 17 Jan 2007 23:31:57 -0600 Subject: plans for long term support releases? In-Reply-To: <45AE9EC6.4020005@olen.net> References: <1169009497.3457.48.camel@laptopd505.fenrus.org> <200701172043.l0HKhG5A001597@laptop13.inf.utfsm.cl> <45AE9EC6.4020005@olen.net> Message-ID: <20070118053157.GA16779@wolff.to> On Wed, Jan 17, 2007 at 23:10:14 +0100, Ola Thoresen wrote: > > One of the worst examples of this is the change to UTF-8 as default > charset. I am a devoted UTF-8 user myself, but it is probably the > single change that has caused most pain for others, and it is stil > causing trouble. When we changed to UTF-8 as default, there were no > easy way to convert filesystems, documents, text-files, webpages... > The first thing almost everyone I know that are installing Fedora, > Redhat or Suse is doing is to change /etc/sysconfig/i18n to go back to > en_US as default LANG. Simply because it takes a h... of a lot of work > to convert all your files and applications and there are no good tools > out there to help you. UTF-8 is an encoding and en_US is a locale. You are comparing different types of things. Perhaps you meant that UTF-8 was being used instead of ASCII or Latin 1? Note that ASCII is in a sense a subset of UTF-8, so converting from ASCII to UTF-8 isn't a big deal. From caillon at redhat.com Thu Jan 18 05:46:05 2007 From: caillon at redhat.com (Christopher Ailllon) Date: Thu, 18 Jan 2007 00:46:05 -0500 Subject: Updated Firefox 3 Roadmap In-Reply-To: <45AA7FD1.3060809@gmx.de> References: <45AA7FD1.3060809@gmx.de> Message-ID: <45AF099D.9090609@redhat.com> Heiko Adams wrote: > -----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- > Hash: SHA1 > > Hello guys, > maybe you've noticed that the mozilla foundation has updates the > planings and the roadmap for firefox 3. > The most interesting fact is, that the release is scheduled at the third > quater 2007. > It would be interesting how this update affects the planing to provide a > firefox 3 rpm for fedora core 5 & 6 users. > Maybe we should think again about updating fedora's firefox to firefox 2 > because afair support for firefox 1.5 ends at may 2007. I've been involved with the planning to some degree and have known about this for several months. I'm surprised it hasn't been posted publicly before now. Nothing new here to me, so it doesn't affect my thinking. From caillon at redhat.com Thu Jan 18 05:50:56 2007 From: caillon at redhat.com (Christopher Ailllon) Date: Thu, 18 Jan 2007 00:50:56 -0500 Subject: Updated Firefox 3 Roadmap In-Reply-To: <45AA87E2.4030501@leemhuis.info> References: <45AA7FD1.3060809@gmx.de> <45AA87E2.4030501@leemhuis.info> Message-ID: <45AF0AC0.8040101@redhat.com> Thorsten Leemhuis wrote: > Heiko Adams schrieb: >> maybe you've noticed that the mozilla foundation has updates the >> planings and the roadmap for firefox 3. >> The most interesting fact is, that the release is scheduled at the third >> quater 2007. [...] > > The most important fact IMHO is: End-of-life for Firefox 1.5.x.y > is April 2007 according to > http://wiki.mozilla.org/ReleaseRoadmap That's a silly terminology for it. It's not really End-of-life. There will be releases past that point, it's just that they won't be done in the traditional fashion: meaning, no generic binaries posted by mozilla.org. They will follow this strategy for 3.0 and at some future date will do it for 2.0.0.x. There will be releases off 1.5 that several people including myself have signed up to drive. > At least FC6 will then be at the middle of it's lifespan then and sill > have round about 7 months to live. Do we really want to backport > security fixes during all that time? I thought we have a lot to do > already. Sure, those security fixes will be produced for RHEL5 in any > case, but it that really worth the trouble building and testing them for > Fedora? Why not? They have to get backported anyway, and if there are security bugs, then no matter what there is building and testing just with different versions. In fact, it's probably less work to do it this way because they I can focus on less source bases. Bottom line is there is nothing new here to me so it doesn't really change my thinking. From dyek at real.com Thu Jan 18 06:18:31 2007 From: dyek at real.com (Daniel Yek) Date: Wed, 17 Jan 2007 22:18:31 -0800 Subject: Non UTF-8 charset fallback support in GLib (Was Re: plans for long term support releases?) In-Reply-To: <20070118053157.GA16779@wolff.to> References: <1169009497.3457.48.camel@laptopd505.fenrus.org> <200701172043.l0HKhG5A001597@laptop13.inf.utfsm.cl> <45AE9EC6.4020005@olen.net> <20070118053157.GA16779@wolff.to> Message-ID: <6.2.1.2.2.20070117214705.3927b3a0@mailone.real.com> At 09:31 PM 1/17/2007, Bruno Wolff III wrote: >On Wed, Jan 17, 2007 at 23:10:14 +0100, > Ola Thoresen wrote: > > > > One of the worst examples of this is the change to UTF-8 as default > > charset. I am a devoted UTF-8 user myself, but it is probably the > > single change that has caused most pain for others, and it is stil > > causing trouble. > > When we changed to UTF-8 as default, there were no > > easy way to convert filesystems, documents, text-files, webpages... Not sure if these two utilities could help: (1) iconv -f old-encoding -t UTF-8 filename > newfilename (2) utf8ize The script: http://ftp.penguin.cz/pub/users/utx/misc/utf8ize.gopts The web page (search for utf8ize): http://www.penguin.cz/~utx/ > > The first thing almost everyone I know that are installing Fedora, > > Redhat or Suse is doing is to change /etc/sysconfig/i18n to go back to > > en_US as default LANG. Simply because it takes a h... of a lot of work > > to convert all your files and applications and there are no good tools > > out there to help you. > >UTF-8 is an encoding and en_US is a locale. You are comparing different >types of things. Perhaps you meant that UTF-8 was being used instead of >ASCII or Latin 1? Note that ASCII is in a sense a subset of UTF-8, so >converting from ASCII to UTF-8 isn't a big deal. Something that I don't feel GLib has done enough is to have enough API supporting non UTF-8 content. For example, if a text file is opened using GIOChannel, the read would fail if the file content isn't containing only UTF-8 content. The fallback could be more graceful; for example, the API could allow a fallback charset to convert bytes that aren't legal UTF-8 byes to UTF-8. There should exist enough API that is as tolerant to non UTF-8 content as possible (such as using fallback charset). For example, a lot of people could be using a single European charset before UTF-8 became mainstream. So, with just one fallback charset specified, all these people could have been covered. Their files could be opened and new files are saved as UTF-8 charset. As it is now, if you want your application to support reading of both UTF-8 and ISO-8859-1 encodings (just the most common 2 sets, not more), most facilities in GLib are not a choice -- if one text file contains just one copyright symbol encoded in ISO-8859-1, you fail to read the entire text file...very far from an ideal scenario. What do people think? -- Daniel Yek From caillon at redhat.com Thu Jan 18 06:34:05 2007 From: caillon at redhat.com (Christopher Ailllon) Date: Thu, 18 Jan 2007 01:34:05 -0500 Subject: ensure upgrade paths through fedora to RHEL? In-Reply-To: <20070117165629.GG2575@free.fr> References: <20070117145955.GA2575@free.fr> <200701171058.49606.jkeating@redhat.com> <20070117160018.GF2575@free.fr> <200701171113.21527.jkeating@redhat.com> <20070117165629.GG2575@free.fr> Message-ID: <45AF14DD.8050601@redhat.com> Patrice Dumas wrote: > On Wed, Jan 17, 2007 at 11:13:21AM -0500, Jesse Keating wrote: >> On Wednesday 17 January 2007 11:00, Patrice Dumas wrote: >> >> Except that there is a bit of a problem, the "new" RHEL comes after the >> Fedora, but with a package set that is older. There is an interesting mix >> there. And no, we're not going to hand tie the Fedora NVRs to try and make >> them LOWER than that of the previous Fedora release. That just doesn't work. > > you mean that RHEL isn't forked from a snapshot of a fedora release, but > instead from a mix of fedora releases? In that case, indeed, there is > nothing practical that can be done. :( Fedora can't control when downstream vendors cut their branches. What happens this time may not happen next time. The fact of the matter is that RHEL and Fedora are very different products. Just like you wouldn't try to supporting upgrading from Fedora to Ubuntu (why not? they both have the same upstream sources at some point) you can't really do that in this case, either. From david at lovesunix.net Thu Jan 18 07:07:55 2007 From: david at lovesunix.net (David Nielsen) Date: Thu, 18 Jan 2007 08:07:55 +0100 Subject: Name for a FESCo Successor? Suggestions anyone? In-Reply-To: <20070117220152.GB9816@neu.nirvana> References: <45AD12F9.3050204@leemhuis.info> <20070116202551.GG12544@neu.nirvana> <20070116203220.GA14296@ryvius.pekin.waw.pl> <200701172048.l0HKm2Rv001859@laptop13.inf.utfsm.cl> <20070117220152.GB9816@neu.nirvana> Message-ID: <1169104075.30965.1.camel@dawkins> ons, 17 01 2007 kl. 23:01 +0100, skrev Axel Thimm: > On Wed, Jan 17, 2007 at 05:48:02PM -0300, Horst H. von Brand wrote: > > Dominik 'Rathann' Mierzejewski wrote: > > > On Tuesday, 16 January 2007 at 21:25, Axel Thimm wrote: > > > > On Tue, Jan 16, 2007 at 07:01:29PM +0100, Thorsten Leemhuis wrote: > > > > > But one issue is still totally undecided and needs to be solved soon: > > > > > What do we call that FESCo and Core Cabal successor? > > > > > > > > How about some more relaxed names like > > > > > > > > Fedora Elders > > > > Count me in for this. > > > > > > or > > > > > > > > Fedora Masters > > > > Nope. Many could master Fedora; and in the sense of "The masters [bosses] > > of Fedora" it doesn't sound relaxed enough. > > Well, I'd argue that > > Fedora Bosses > > would be a fun, self-ironic name, but probably too relaxed. :) It does sound a bit like they are going to make us an offer we can't refuse. -- "Ridicule is the only weapon that can be used against unintelligible propositions. Ideas must be distinct before reason can act upon them.? -Thomas Jefferson -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: signature.asc Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 189 bytes Desc: Dette er en digitalt underskrevet brevdel URL: From redhat at olen.net Thu Jan 18 07:38:05 2007 From: redhat at olen.net (Ola Thoresen) Date: Thu, 18 Jan 2007 08:38:05 +0100 Subject: plans for long term support releases? In-Reply-To: <20070118053157.GA16779@wolff.to> References: <1169009497.3457.48.camel@laptopd505.fenrus.org> <200701172043.l0HKhG5A001597@laptop13.inf.utfsm.cl> <45AE9EC6.4020005@olen.net> <20070118053157.GA16779@wolff.to> Message-ID: <45AF23DD.6050000@olen.net> Bruno Wolff III wrote: > On Wed, Jan 17, 2007 at 23:10:14 +0100, > Ola Thoresen wrote: >> One of the worst examples of this is the change to UTF-8 as default >> charset. I am a devoted UTF-8 user myself, but it is probably the >> single change that has caused most pain for others, and it is stil >> causing trouble. When we changed to UTF-8 as default, there were no >> easy way to convert filesystems, documents, text-files, webpages... >> The first thing almost everyone I know that are installing Fedora, >> Redhat or Suse is doing is to change /etc/sysconfig/i18n to go back to >> en_US as default LANG. Simply because it takes a h... of a lot of work >> to convert all your files and applications and there are no good tools >> out there to help you. > > UTF-8 is an encoding and en_US is a locale. You are comparing different > types of things. Perhaps you meant that UTF-8 was being used instead of > ASCII or Latin 1? Note that ASCII is in a sense a subset of UTF-8, so > converting from ASCII to UTF-8 isn't a big deal. The point is that everyone who has used linux since before the switch to utf8 has lots of files in latin-1 (for instance) encoding. Filesystems with filenames with latin-1 characters (not only ascii), we have old servers with OSes that does not use utf8 that we need to connect to and so on. The change of locale from en_US.UTF-8 to en_US makes all the problems go away, because all your applications are still expecting these filenames to be latin-1, that the content is latin-1, they do not give you any surprises when you have weird characters in your password, and so on. I guess the problem is much bigger in Europe than in many other places, as we have a love for all kinds of different characters - and many people also use them in their filenames and passwords. Note. I personally have converted most of my files and filesystems, and I think utf8 is great (using the tools others have emailed about here). But I also know it is the biggest complaint most people around me has about modern distributions. Because it is a very log way from "no problem" to switch charset for most users. I only wanted to point out that this is te situation right now. People are not "upgrading" their filesystems, and they are utilizing all kinds of tricks to make the old stuff work. We do not want that to happen with an upgrade of an other important package in the future, so we should try to make the tools to convert config and content available before an upgrade that we know might be troublesome. And I also just want to say that the release-notes have been much, much better for the last releases. So thanks a lot to the people writing and compiling them. Rgds. Ola Thoresen -- _,--', _._.--._____ .--.--';_'-.', ";_ _.,-' Ola Thoresen .'--'. _.' {`'-;_ .-.>.' '-:_ ) / `' '=. It is easier to fix Unix ) > {_/, /~) than to live with Windows |/ `^ .' From petersen at redhat.com Thu Jan 18 08:03:19 2007 From: petersen at redhat.com (Jens Petersen) Date: Thu, 18 Jan 2007 18:03:19 +1000 Subject: plans for long term support releases? In-Reply-To: References: <1169009497.3457.48.camel@laptopd505.fenrus.org> <200701172043.l0HKhG5A001597@laptop13.inf.utfsm.cl> <45AE9EC6.4020005@olen.net> Message-ID: <45AF29C7.7050504@redhat.com> Zing wrote: > [...] I don't think upgrades between major RHEL releases are supported? Sure they are. Jens From buildsys at redhat.com Thu Jan 18 08:04:09 2007 From: buildsys at redhat.com (buildsys at redhat.com) Date: Thu, 18 Jan 2007 03:04:09 -0500 Subject: rawhide report: 20070118 changes Message-ID: <200701180804.l0I849hu006713@hs20-bc2-6.build.redhat.com> New package libthai Thai language support routines Updated Packages: autofs-1:5.0.1-0.rc3.9 ---------------------- * Wed Jan 17 2007 Ian Kent - 5.0.1-0.rc3.9 - fix another expire regression introduced in the "mitigate manual umount" patch (bz 222872). compiz-0.3.6-1.fc7 ------------------ * Tue Jan 16 2007 Kristian H??gsberg - 0.3.6-1 - Update to 0.3.6, update patches. - Drop autotool build requires. - Drop glfinish.patch, cow.patch, resize-offset.patch and icon-menu-patch. - Add libdecoration.so - Update to desktop-effects-0.7.0, which spawns the right decorator and plays nicely with unknown plugins. device-mapper-1.02.15-1.fc7 --------------------------- * Wed Jan 17 2007 Alasdair Kergon - 1.02.15-1 - Add basic reporting functions to libdevmapper. dialog-1.0.20060221-1 --------------------- * Wed Jan 17 2007 Harald Hoyer - 1.0.20060221-1 - version 1.0-20060221 fonts-indic-2.1.2-1.fc7 ----------------------- * Thu Jan 18 2007 Parag Nemade - 2.1.2-1 - Resolved Bugs from Parag Nemade - Bug 222407: [or_IN] [fonts-indic] - One GSUB Conjunct is not appearing with its correct shape - Bug 206434: [ml_IN] Digits are appearing in English instead of malayalam - Priority C - Bug 215894: Relative height of 0x0901 (and 0x0902) on 0x0915 is different than other devnagari characters (hi_IN, mr_IN) - Bug 222408: [te_IN] [fonts-indic] - Danda and Double Danda to be implemented with 0964 && 0965 - Bug 222409: [kn_IN] [fonts-indic] - Danda and Double Danda to be implemented with 0964 && 0965 - Bug 221384: [kn_IN] - shape of ra (U+0CB0) is not corret in combined character (below base) - Added AUTHORS,README to %doc freetype-2.3.0-1.fc7 -------------------- * Wed Jan 17 2007 Behdad Esfahbod 2.3.0-1 - Update to 2.3.0. - Drop upstream patches. - Drop -fno-strict-aliasing, it should just work. - Fix typo in ftconfig.h generation. glibc-2.5.90-15 --------------- * Wed Jan 17 2007 Jakub Jelinek 2.5.90-15 - fix NIS getservbyname when proto is NULL - fix nss_compat +group handling (#220658) - cache services in nscd - fix double free in fts_close (#222089) - fix vfork+execvp memory leak (#221187) - soft-fp fixes (BZ#2749) - further strtod fixes (BZ#3855) - make sure pthread_kill doesn't return EINVAL even if the target thread exits in between pthread_kill ESRCH check and the actual tgkill syscall (#220420) - fix ABBA deadlock possibility in ld.so scope locking code gmp-4.1.4-11 ------------ * Wed Jan 17 2007 Jakub Jelinek 4.1.4-11 - make sure libmpfr.a doesn't contain SSE2 instructions on i?86 (#222371) - rebase to mpfr 2.2.1 from 2.2.0 + cumulative fixes gstreamer-plugins-good-0.10.5-1.fc7 ----------------------------------- * Wed Jan 17 2007 Matthias Clasen - 0.10.5-1 - Update to 0.10.5 gtk2-2.10.8-2.fc7 ----------------- * Wed Jan 17 2007 Matthias Clasen - 2.10.8-2 - Fix a crash in the recent-files menu code. ipsec-tools-0.6.6-1 ------------------- * Wed Jan 17 2007 Harald Hoyer - 0.6.6-1 - version 0.6.6 libXfont-1.2.6-2.fc7 -------------------- * Wed Jan 17 2007 Kristian H??gsberg 1.2.6-2 - Add built-in-scalable.patch to prevent crash when trying to scale built-in bitmap fonts. * Fri Jan 05 2007 Adam Jackson 1.2.6-1 - Update to 1.2.6 * Fri Dec 01 2006 Adam Jackson 1.2.5-1 - Update to 1.2.5 from upstream. Drops CID font support. libselinux-1.33.6-1.fc7 ----------------------- * Wed Jan 17 2007 Dan Walsh - 1.33.6-1 - Upgrade to upstream * Merged man page updates to make "apropos selinux" work from Dan Walsh. libxslt-1.1.20-1 ---------------- * Wed Jan 17 2007 Daniel Veillard - upstream release 1.1.20 see http://xmlsoft.org/XSLT/news.html logwatch-7.3.2-4.fc7 -------------------- * Wed Jan 17 2007 Ivana Varekova 7.3.2-4 - add xntpd patch lvm2-2.02.19-1.fc7 ------------------ * Wed Jan 17 2007 Alasdair Kergon - 2.02.19-1 - Fix a segfault if an empty config file section encountered. - Fix partition table processing after sparc changes. - Fix cmdline PE range processing segfault. - Move basic reporting functions into libdevmapper. * Fri Jan 12 2007 Alasdair Kergon - 2.02.18-2 - Rebuild. * Thu Jan 11 2007 Alasdair Kergon - 2.02.18-1 - Use CFLAGS when linking so mixed sparc builds can supply -m64. - Prevent permission changes on active mirrors. - Print warning instead of error message if lvconvert cannot zero volume. - Add snapshot options to lvconvert man page. - dumpconfig accepts a list of configuration variables to display. - Change dumpconfig to use --file to redirect output to a file. - Avoid vgreduce error when mirror code removes the log LV. - Fix ambiguous vgsplit error message for split LV. - Fix lvextend man page typo. - Use no flush suspending for mirrors. - Fix create mirror with name longer than 22 chars. m17n-db-1.3.4-4.fc7 ------------------- * Wed Jan 17 2007 Mayank Jain - Added Patch 4 as number_pad_itrans-222634.patch for adding number pad support in itrans keymaps - Added number pad support in all indic keymaps except tamil as they used english numerals. - Resolves bug : 222634 m2crypto-0.17-1 --------------- * Wed Jan 17 2007 Miloslav Trmac - 0.17-1 - Update to m2crypto-0.17 - Update for Python 2.5 * Thu Dec 07 2006 Miloslav Trmac - 0.16-8 - Rebuild with updated build tools to avoid DT_TEXTREL on s390x Resolves: #218578 metacity-2.17.5-1.fc7 --------------------- * Wed Jan 17 2007 Matthias Clasen - 2.17.5-1 - Update to 2.17.5 policycoreutils-1.33.15-1.fc7 ----------------------------- * Wed Jan 17 2007 Dan Walsh 1.33.15-1 - Update to upstream * Merged unicode-to-string fix for seobject audit from Dan Walsh. * Merged man page updates to make "apropos selinux" work from Dan Walsh. pykickstart-0.91-1.fc7 ---------------------- * Wed Jan 17 2007 Chris Lumens - 0.91-1 - Add a method to read kickstart files from strings. rpm-4.4.2-39.fc7 ---------------- * Wed Jan 17 2007 Deepak Bhole 4.4.2-39.fc7 - Added a missing BR for elfutils-libelf-devel-static (needed for -lelf) squirrelmail-1.4.8-3.fc6 ------------------------ * Mon Jan 15 2007 Warren Togami 1.4.8-3 - CVE-2006-6142 syslinux-3.31-1 --------------- * Wed Jan 17 2007 Jeremy Katz - 3.31-1 - update to 3.31 system-config-services-0.9.4-1.fc7 ---------------------------------- * Wed Dec 06 2006 Harald Hoyer - 0.9.4 - fixed service start/stop (#218429) - translation update (#216558) - Resolves: rhbz#216558, rhbz#218429 * Fri Nov 24 2006 Nils Philippsen - 0.9.3 - pick up updated translations (#216558) totem-2.17.5-1.fc7 ------------------ * Tue Jan 16 2007 Matthias Clasen - 2.17.5-1 - Update to 2.17.5 vixie-cron-4:4.1-70.fc7 ----------------------- * Tue Jan 16 2007 Marcela Maslanova - 4:4.1-70 - change in manual Broken deps for s390 ---------------------------------------------------------- systemtap - 0.5.10-1.fc7.s390 requires kernel >= 0:2.6.9-11 systemtap-runtime - 0.5.10-1.fc7.s390 requires kernel >= 0:2.6.9-11 From thias at spam.spam.spam.spam.spam.spam.spam.egg.and.spam.freshrpms.net Thu Jan 18 10:08:08 2007 From: thias at spam.spam.spam.spam.spam.spam.spam.egg.and.spam.freshrpms.net (Matthias Saou) Date: Thu, 18 Jan 2007 11:08:08 +0100 Subject: rawhide report: 20070117 changes In-Reply-To: <1169060904.15517.46.camel@kloczek01.pracownicy.zie> References: <200701171142.l0HBgoev000680@hs20-bc2-6.build.redhat.com> <1169057133.13577.4.camel@kloczek01.pracownicy.zie> <20070117191407.2038794e@python3.es.egwn.lan> <1169058893.15517.19.camel@kloczek01.pracownicy.zie> <20070117194448.03ee832c@python3.es.egwn.lan> <1169060904.15517.46.camel@kloczek01.pracownicy.zie> Message-ID: <20070118110808.1115def9@python3.es.egwn.lan> Tomasz K?oczko wrote : > Dnia 17-01-2007, ?ro o godzinie 19:44 +0100, Matthias Saou napisa?(a): > [..] > > This is exactly what the added "_html" on the first "rm" line takes > > care of. > > Sorry. You are right :) > Personalny I dislike any spec file with "non-standard" skeleton because > for me allways %install begin like: > > %install > rm -rf $RPM_BUILD_ROOT > > is element of standard spec skeleton as same like: > > %clean > rm -rf $RPM_BUILD_ROOT > > Usually I'm not looking on first line of %install and this why I'm omit > this ;-) And I dislike having so much copy/paste of identical content across spec files. For me, BuildRoot, the standard "%setup -q", removing the buildroot before %install and in %clean as well as having the default owner of files set to root and not the current user should all be defaults. But that's a whole other issue :-) > BTW: spec file in biggest FC package for openoffice.org isn't > --short-circuit compliant because %install depends on prelink hacks in % > build. > Probably best prevention for maintain this kind hacks will be change in > system macros from current: [...] Just file a bugzilla report, especially if the a trivial change. Matthias -- Clean custom Red Hat Linux rpm packages : http://freshrpms.net/ Fedora Core release 6 (Zod) - Linux kernel 2.6.19-1.2895.fc6 Load : 0.25 0.17 0.11 From tmus at tmus.dk Thu Jan 18 11:39:13 2007 From: tmus at tmus.dk (Thomas M Steenholdt) Date: Thu, 18 Jan 2007 12:39:13 +0100 Subject: plans for long term support releases? In-Reply-To: <200701172043.l0HKhG5A001597@laptop13.inf.utfsm.cl> References: <1169009497.3457.48.camel@laptopd505.fenrus.org> <200701172043.l0HKhG5A001597@laptop13.inf.utfsm.cl> Message-ID: Horst H. von Brand wrote: > Thomas M Steenholdt wrote: > > [...] > >> In my mind, something like this could be accomplished in several >> ways. If backporting is too much work (I know it takes time) then >> perhaps it could be done by following upstream releases like we do >> today, but for a longer time. > > One of the reasons /not/ to ugrade and wanting to stick with the same > distribution release is precisely because new upstream releases break > stuff... > > Yes, GCC 4 is a /much/ better C++ compiler than 3 [OK, OK, the language 4 > accepts contains something that at least resembles C++, that cannot be said > of 3], but many things that compiled and worked fine with 3 just won't > build on 4 without /much/ work. > > Yes, Python 2.6 is nicer than 2.5, but many packages break (remember? ;-) > > Yes, PHP 5 is safer than 4, but websites built with 4 won't work OOB. > > And a long etc. So the way out is backporting patches, or better backfixing > (== finding out how to trigger the bug, figure out if it (or something > similar) is present in the old version, fixing the bug, checking that this > really fixes the problem and doesn't create new ones). Tedious, hard > work. Sure, you'll find people eager to do it (mostly terminal masochists), > you might be able to find people able to do it right (but they probably are > much more excited by the idea of hacking on the latest&greatest). You won't > find anybody willing to test the result (at least not enough to make a > difference). So... > > If it is /that/ important to somebody, they'll be willing to shell out for > a long-term maintained distribution like RHEL (or band together and do the > work). If not, they aren't really interested, more than an "it would be > real nice if I did not have to upgrade Fedora each year or so" > I'm aware of the work involved in maintaining packages, backporting fixes etc. And I agree completely that in the current setup, the fixes will probably not be tested properly. Also, it does not seem like something like this is desired for Fedora (at this point at least), and that's an acceptable answer to my inquiry too. I only suggested that we thought about it, which a lot of people did. There are several reasons why we should NOT do it, so there's not much sense in leaving the "case" open. Perhaps at a later point, it'll make sense to reevaluate. Now's just not the time. > >> Perhaps the solution is to re-launch legacy in a more integrated >> way?!? I heard the cut back, but I don't know how much. > > AFAIU, it dried on the wine. /Thomas From prarit at redhat.com Thu Jan 18 12:05:08 2007 From: prarit at redhat.com (Prarit Bhargava) Date: Thu, 18 Jan 2007 07:05:08 -0500 Subject: [Fedora-ia64-list] Re: anaconda-runtime error In-Reply-To: <1169082172.15989.255.camel@ymzhang> References: <1168319262.15989.211.camel@ymzhang> <1168569442.15989.240.camel@ymzhang> <1168937827.15989.250.camel@ymzhang> <200701160846.22485.jkeating@redhat.com> <45ACE867.5090605@redhat.com> <1169082172.15989.255.camel@ymzhang> Message-ID: <45AF6274.5020009@redhat.com> Zhang, Yanmin wrote: > On Tue, 2007-01-16 at 09:59 -0500, Prarit Bhargava wrote: > >> >> Jesse, I just entered a bug in on this: BZ 222840. >> > I posted the info to #219449. As you know, I ran into lots of anaconda issues. > I don't intend to create so many new bug reports to flood bugzilla, at least before > I succeed in creating a new workable dvd image of the latest development tree. :) > You *must* create a new Bugzilla for every new issue you find, Yanmin. It's the only way the developers are able to keep track of things. P. > Yanmin > From nicolas.mailhot at laposte.net Thu Jan 18 13:29:39 2007 From: nicolas.mailhot at laposte.net (Nicolas Mailhot) Date: Thu, 18 Jan 2007 14:29:39 +0100 (CET) Subject: plans for long term support releases? In-Reply-To: <45AF23DD.6050000@olen.net> References: <1169009497.3457.48.camel@laptopd505.fenrus.org> <200701172043.l0HKhG5A001597@laptop13.inf.utfsm.cl> <45AE9EC6.4020005@olen.net> <20070118053157.GA16779@wolff.to> <45AF23DD.6050000@olen.net> Message-ID: <19194.192.54.193.51.1169126979.squirrel@rousalka.dyndns.org> Le Jeu 18 janvier 2007 08:38, Ola Thoresen a ?crit : > The change of locale from en_US.UTF-8 to en_US makes all the problems go > away, because all your applications are still expecting these filenames > to be latin-1, that the content is latin-1, they do not give you any > surprises when you have weird characters in your password, and so on. UTF-8 is a big problem to en_US users, since the old default was their particular encoding. So they feel it's a lots of pain for little wins. For every one else however it's lots of pain for lots of wins. (en_US pay for the rest of the world now, while the rest of the world paid for en_US users before) -- Nicolas Mailhot From vonbrand at inf.utfsm.cl Thu Jan 18 14:26:58 2007 From: vonbrand at inf.utfsm.cl (Horst H. von Brand) Date: Thu, 18 Jan 2007 11:26:58 -0300 Subject: plans for long term support releases? In-Reply-To: <45AE9EC6.4020005@olen.net> References: <1169009497.3457.48.camel@laptopd505.fenrus.org> <200701172043.l0HKhG5A001597@laptop13.inf.utfsm.cl> <45AE9EC6.4020005@olen.net> Message-ID: <200701181426.l0IEQwfu023794@laptop13.inf.utfsm.cl> Ola Thoresen wrote: [...] > But i really do not look forward to the upgrades from RHEL4 to RHEL5, > where we get 5 years of upgrades in one go. It's not that bad, only 2+ years. The real problem is for people with EOLing RHEL (2 currently?)... I do prefer keeping up to date by pieces (as you say), and not big bangs changing everything in one go. But then again, we are working with people whose policy is to install RHEL 3 (the original one) /and not ever update anything/. I shudder thinking what it will take in a few years when upgrades can't be put off any longer... -- Dr. Horst H. von Brand User #22616 counter.li.org Departamento de Informatica Fono: +56 32 2654431 Universidad Tecnica Federico Santa Maria +56 32 2654239 Casilla 110-V, Valparaiso, Chile Fax: +56 32 2797513 From vonbrand at inf.utfsm.cl Thu Jan 18 14:27:35 2007 From: vonbrand at inf.utfsm.cl (Horst H. von Brand) Date: Thu, 18 Jan 2007 11:27:35 -0300 Subject: plans for long term support releases? In-Reply-To: <20070118053157.GA16779@wolff.to> References: <1169009497.3457.48.camel@laptopd505.fenrus.org> <200701172043.l0HKhG5A001597@laptop13.inf.utfsm.cl> <45AE9EC6.4020005@olen.net> <20070118053157.GA16779@wolff.to> Message-ID: <200701181427.l0IERZED023826@laptop13.inf.utfsm.cl> From vonbrand at inf.utfsm.cl Thu Jan 18 14:33:23 2007 From: vonbrand at inf.utfsm.cl (Horst H. von Brand) Date: Thu, 18 Jan 2007 11:33:23 -0300 Subject: Non UTF-8 charset fallback support in GLib (Was Re: plans for long term support releases?) In-Reply-To: <6.2.1.2.2.20070117214705.3927b3a0@mailone.real.com> References: <1169009497.3457.48.camel@laptopd505.fenrus.org> <200701172043.l0HKhG5A001597@laptop13.inf.utfsm.cl> <45AE9EC6.4020005@olen.net> <20070118053157.GA16779@wolff.to> <6.2.1.2.2.20070117214705.3927b3a0@mailone.real.com> Message-ID: <200701181433.l0IEXNVv023885@laptop13.inf.utfsm.cl> Daniel Yek wrote: > At 09:31 PM 1/17/2007, Bruno Wolff III wrote: > >On Wed, Jan 17, 2007 at 23:10:14 +0100, > > Ola Thoresen wrote: [...] > > > When we changed to UTF-8 as default, there were no > > > easy way to convert filesystems, documents, text-files, webpages... > > Not sure if these two utilities could help: > (1) iconv -f old-encoding -t UTF-8 filename > newfilename > > (2) utf8ize recode (in Extras, I think). Only problem is that if you recode a LaTeX file (which states the encoding in its header) you'll get funny results... [...] > > > The first thing almost everyone I know that are installing Fedora, > > > Redhat or Suse is doing is to change /etc/sysconfig/i18n to go back to > > > en_US as default LANG. Simply because it takes a h... of a lot of work > > > to convert all your files and applications and there are no good tools > > > out there to help you. Lived through the pain of updating here (Spanish /does/ use Latin-1, and I have some texts in German too). It's not painless, but not that bad either. And in my experience putting it off means much more pain than just biting the bullet and converting, in the worst case on demand only. -- Dr. Horst H. von Brand User #22616 counter.li.org Departamento de Informatica Fono: +56 32 2654431 Universidad Tecnica Federico Santa Maria +56 32 2654239 Casilla 110-V, Valparaiso, Chile Fax: +56 32 2797513 From vonbrand at inf.utfsm.cl Thu Jan 18 14:41:43 2007 From: vonbrand at inf.utfsm.cl (Horst H. von Brand) Date: Thu, 18 Jan 2007 11:41:43 -0300 Subject: plans for long term support releases? In-Reply-To: References: <1169009497.3457.48.camel@laptopd505.fenrus.org> <200701172043.l0HKhG5A001597@laptop13.inf.utfsm.cl> Message-ID: <200701181441.l0IEfhuQ023956@laptop13.inf.utfsm.cl> Thomas M Steenholdt wrote: > Horst H. von Brand wrote: > > Thomas M Steenholdt wrote: > > [...] [...] > > If it is /that/ important to somebody, they'll be willing to shell > > out for a long-term maintained distribution like RHEL (or band together > > and do the work). If not, they aren't really interested, more than an > > "it would be real nice if I did not have to upgrade Fedora each year or > > so" > I'm aware of the work involved in maintaining packages, backporting > fixes etc. And I agree completely that in the current setup, the fixes > will probably not be tested properly. Also, it does not seem like > something like this is desired for Fedora (at this point at least), > and that's an acceptable answer to my inquiry too. OK. > I only suggested that we thought about it, which a lot of people > did. There are several reasons why we should NOT do it, so there's not > much sense in leaving the "case" open. I believe it makes no sense to "think it through". Just leave the door open for people genuinely interested in managing some kind of Fedora LTS. Yes, that probably means being available to help out and check that the result is really worthwhile. A first step will be reevaluate the criteria when a release is EOLed, but even that can't really be done until Fedora 8 is mainstream and Fedora 6 is scheduled to be closed down. And even then, Fedora 6 will live on (sort of) in the form of CentOS 5... > Perhaps at a later point, it'll make sense to reevaluate. Now's just > not the time. Yep. -- Dr. Horst H. von Brand User #22616 counter.li.org Departamento de Informatica Fono: +56 32 2654431 Universidad Tecnica Federico Santa Maria +56 32 2654239 Casilla 110-V, Valparaiso, Chile Fax: +56 32 2797513 From atkac at redhat.com Thu Jan 18 14:41:34 2007 From: atkac at redhat.com (Adam Tkac) Date: Thu, 18 Jan 2007 15:41:34 +0100 Subject: Dump (backup utility) in FC-7 will be linked dynamically Message-ID: <45AF871E.6060507@redhat.com> Hi all, I'm going to ship dump backup utility in FC-7 only in dynamically linked version (now dump is statically linked). Is here anybody who is against this change? If you have arguments against this change I'm ready to discuss it. Next possible solution could be dump & dump-static packages. Adam From giallu at gmail.com Thu Jan 18 15:07:23 2007 From: giallu at gmail.com (Gianluca Sforna) Date: Thu, 18 Jan 2007 16:07:23 +0100 Subject: Non UTF-8 charset fallback support in GLib (Was Re: plans for long term support releases?) In-Reply-To: <200701181433.l0IEXNVv023885@laptop13.inf.utfsm.cl> References: <1169009497.3457.48.camel@laptopd505.fenrus.org> <200701172043.l0HKhG5A001597@laptop13.inf.utfsm.cl> <45AE9EC6.4020005@olen.net> <20070118053157.GA16779@wolff.to> <6.2.1.2.2.20070117214705.3927b3a0@mailone.real.com> <200701181433.l0IEXNVv023885@laptop13.inf.utfsm.cl> Message-ID: On 1/18/07, Horst H. von Brand wrote: > Daniel Yek wrote: > > At 09:31 PM 1/17/2007, Bruno Wolff III wrote: > > >On Wed, Jan 17, 2007 at 23:10:14 +0100, > > > Ola Thoresen wrote: > > [...] > > > > > When we changed to UTF-8 as default, there were no > > > > easy way to convert filesystems, documents, text-files, webpages... > > > > Not sure if these two utilities could help: > > (1) iconv -f old-encoding -t UTF-8 filename > newfilename > > > > (2) utf8ize > > recode (in Extras, I think). > I will actually have the issue of converting on the next major update of mantis, because the 1.1 serie will introduce UTF-8 enconding for the bug database. Any suggestion for this case? I will have to figure out to translate older databases fields content into UTF-8 (possibly as part of the rpm transaction) FYI, the Fedora package is using the MySQL backend From brucekeats at gmail.com Thu Jan 18 16:27:00 2007 From: brucekeats at gmail.com (Bruce Keats) Date: Thu, 18 Jan 2007 11:27:00 -0500 Subject: Support for mysql++ in Fedora? Message-ID: <6c0aa9500701180827k64318341i5506c7879458db5f@mail.gmail.com> I noticed that FC5, FC6, etc support mysql 5. There also appears to be perl support for mysql 5. Are there any plans to add mysql++ library support in FC5, FC6 or future Fedora releases? Bruce -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From tibbs at math.uh.edu Thu Jan 18 16:59:43 2007 From: tibbs at math.uh.edu (Jason L Tibbitts III) Date: 18 Jan 2007 10:59:43 -0600 Subject: Dump (backup utility) in FC-7 will be linked dynamically In-Reply-To: <45AF871E.6060507@redhat.com> References: <45AF871E.6060507@redhat.com> Message-ID: >>>>> "AT" == Adam Tkac writes: AT> I'm going to ship dump backup utility in FC-7 only in AT> dynamically linked version (now dump is statically linked). I suppose the primary reasons for shipping a static dump (and, perhaps more importantly, restore) is for emergency situations. But these days I can't imagine many emergency situations that aren't better solved by booting the rescue media instead of booting single-user. dump and restore are on the rescue media, aren't they? (Personally I wish the initrd could be extended to act as a rescue medium, but I imagine that many people would object to that.) - J< From bruno at wolff.to Thu Jan 18 17:25:15 2007 From: bruno at wolff.to (Bruno Wolff III) Date: Thu, 18 Jan 2007 11:25:15 -0600 Subject: plans for long term support releases? In-Reply-To: <45AF23DD.6050000@olen.net> References: <1169009497.3457.48.camel@laptopd505.fenrus.org> <200701172043.l0HKhG5A001597@laptop13.inf.utfsm.cl> <45AE9EC6.4020005@olen.net> <20070118053157.GA16779@wolff.to> <45AF23DD.6050000@olen.net> Message-ID: <20070118172515.GB18691@wolff.to> On Thu, Jan 18, 2007 at 08:38:05 +0100, Ola Thoresen wrote: > > The point is that everyone who has used linux since before the switch to > utf8 has lots of files in latin-1 (for instance) encoding. Filesystems > with filenames with latin-1 characters (not only ascii), we have old > servers with OSes that does not use utf8 that we need to connect to and > so on. I don't believe that. This may affect some users, but it is hardly everyone. Most US users are going to just be using the ASCII subset of Latin 1. They may have a few saved email messages with some nonascii characters, but those will probably be saved in mail folders where the proper encoding is also saved. I wouldn't expect nonASCII characters in filenames or most text files. > I guess the problem is much bigger in Europe than in many other places, > as we have a love for all kinds of different characters - and many > people also use them in their filenames and passwords. That is what I would have expected. From redhat at olen.net Thu Jan 18 18:17:31 2007 From: redhat at olen.net (Ola Thoresen) Date: Thu, 18 Jan 2007 19:17:31 +0100 Subject: plans for long term support releases? In-Reply-To: <20070118172515.GB18691@wolff.to> References: <1169009497.3457.48.camel@laptopd505.fenrus.org> <200701172043.l0HKhG5A001597@laptop13.inf.utfsm.cl> <45AE9EC6.4020005@olen.net> <20070118053157.GA16779@wolff.to> <45AF23DD.6050000@olen.net> <20070118172515.GB18691@wolff.to> Message-ID: <45AFB9BB.9020001@olen.net> Bruno Wolff III wrote: > On Thu, Jan 18, 2007 at 08:38:05 +0100, > Ola Thoresen wrote: >> The point is that everyone who has used linux since before the switch to >> utf8 has lots of files in latin-1 (for instance) encoding. Filesystems >> with filenames with latin-1 characters (not only ascii), we have old >> servers with OSes that does not use utf8 that we need to connect to and >> so on. > > I don't believe that. This may affect some users, but it is hardly everyone. > Most US users are going to just be using the ASCII subset of Latin 1. They > may have a few saved email messages with some nonascii characters, but those > will probably be saved in mail folders where the proper encoding is also > saved. I wouldn't expect nonASCII characters in filenames or most text files. Sorry for using the word "everyone". What I ment was "everyone around here" - in Norway. The people _I_ usually talk to and have to help with upgrades and new installations. For them, it is either a long and "dangerous" job of converting files and filesystems and resetting passwords, or one simple change in /etc/syconfig/i18n Guess what they chose 90% of the time, and guess what they then tell everyone they talk to about this to do to "fix" it... I am just now running a "convmv -f latin1 -t utf-8 -r --notest *" on a 150 GB partition for a friend of mine. I think I'll make a writeup on how to do this conversion, so maybe more people will actually do it. Rgds. -- _,--', _._.--._____ .--.--';_'-.', ";_ _.,-' Ola Thoresen .'--'. _.' {`'-;_ .-.>.' '-:_ ) / `' '=. It is easier to fix Unix ) > {_/, /~) than to live with Windows |/ `^ .' From wwoods at redhat.com Thu Jan 18 19:21:23 2007 From: wwoods at redhat.com (Will Woods) Date: Thu, 18 Jan 2007 19:21:23 +0000 Subject: Rawhide installable via NFS In-Reply-To: <1169072076.2596.4.camel@scrappy.miketc.com> References: <1169072076.2596.4.camel@scrappy.miketc.com> Message-ID: <1169148083.3033.85.camel@metroid.rdu.redhat.com> On Wed, 2007-01-17 at 16:14 -0600, Mike Chambers wrote: > I keep getting "server can't mount that directory" or something like > that when I put in the server/dir names. > > And if it's not installable that way, can it be done via ftp/http at > least? > > I don't think I've been able to do a rawhide install for a month or two. I did one yesterday over NFS - anaconda dies when it tries to write out anaconda-ks.cfg, but other than that it worked fine. Are you sure that directory is actually NFS-mountable and all that? -w -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: signature.asc Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 189 bytes Desc: This is a digitally signed message part URL: From fedora at leemhuis.info Thu Jan 18 18:39:23 2007 From: fedora at leemhuis.info (Thorsten Leemhuis) Date: Thu, 18 Jan 2007 19:39:23 +0100 Subject: Name for a FESCo Successor? Suggestions anyone? In-Reply-To: <45AD12F9.3050204@leemhuis.info> References: <45AD12F9.3050204@leemhuis.info> Message-ID: <45AFBEDB.60107@leemhuis.info> Hi! /me again! Thorsten Leemhuis schrieb: > [...] > But one issue is still totally undecided and needs to be solved soon: > What do we call that FESCo and Core Cabal successor? The "E" in FESCo > until now stood for Extras, but soon Extras will vanish due to the > merge. So hat do we want to call it? [...] FESCo discussed this in todays meeting. We agreed to just continue with the old name :) It just means "Fedora Steering Committee" or "Fedora Engineering Steering Committee" now :-)) CU thl From gdk at redhat.com Thu Jan 18 19:36:53 2007 From: gdk at redhat.com (Greg Dekoenigsberg) Date: Thu, 18 Jan 2007 14:36:53 -0500 (EST) Subject: Name for a FESCo Successor? Suggestions anyone? In-Reply-To: <45AFBEDB.60107@leemhuis.info> References: <45AD12F9.3050204@leemhuis.info> <45AFBEDB.60107@leemhuis.info> Message-ID: +1 to Fedora Engineering Steering Committee. :) --g On Thu, 18 Jan 2007, Thorsten Leemhuis wrote: > Hi! > > /me again! > > Thorsten Leemhuis schrieb: >> [...] >> But one issue is still totally undecided and needs to be solved soon: >> What do we call that FESCo and Core Cabal successor? The "E" in FESCo >> until now stood for Extras, but soon Extras will vanish due to the >> merge. So hat do we want to call it? [...] > > FESCo discussed this in todays meeting. We agreed to just continue with > the old name :) > > It just means "Fedora Steering Committee" or "Fedora Engineering > Steering Committee" now :-)) > > CU > thl > > > > -- > Fedora-maintainers mailing list > Fedora-maintainers at redhat.com > https://www.redhat.com/mailman/listinfo/fedora-maintainers > -- ------------------------------------------------------------- Greg DeKoenigsberg || Fedora Project || fedoraproject.org Be an Ambassador || http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Ambassadors ------------------------------------------------------------- From jkeating at redhat.com Thu Jan 18 20:33:36 2007 From: jkeating at redhat.com (Jesse Keating) Date: Thu, 18 Jan 2007 15:33:36 -0500 Subject: Name for a FESCo Successor? Suggestions anyone? In-Reply-To: References: <45AD12F9.3050204@leemhuis.info> <45AFBEDB.60107@leemhuis.info> Message-ID: <200701181533.40804.jkeating@redhat.com> On Thursday 18 January 2007 14:36, Greg Dekoenigsberg wrote: > +1 to Fedora Engineering Steering Committee. ?:) +1 from me on this too, since we'll be dealing mostly with engineering type things, and not necessarily marketing, or art, or... -- Jesse Keating Release Engineer: Fedora -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 189 bytes Desc: not available URL: From usernamenumber at gmail.com Thu Jan 18 21:57:29 2007 From: usernamenumber at gmail.com (Brad Smith) Date: Thu, 18 Jan 2007 16:57:29 -0500 Subject: Fedora Tracker is in need of a new home Message-ID: Hello all, Since its creation, I have used the same $10/mo web host for Fedora Tracker. However, as the number of repositories indexed has grown, the update process has begun to involve longer and longer periods of nontrivial memory and cpu usage, which my hosting company can no longer justify devoting to a single customer. Does anyone have server space they would be willing to donate to Fedora Tracker? Requirements would be MySQL 5.x and Python >= 2.4, plus shell access for me. sudo privs would be helpful but are not necessary. Any takers? --Brad From a.badger at gmail.com Thu Jan 18 22:50:15 2007 From: a.badger at gmail.com (Toshio Kuratomi) Date: Thu, 18 Jan 2007 14:50:15 -0800 Subject: New VCS Choice; SCM SIG Message-ID: <1169160615.14225.127.camel@localhost.localdomain> Hey all, Infrastructure, Extras, and the Board have had sporadic talks about changing over from cvs to another version control system and what that entails. Part of the discussions during the fedora-summit showed that we can reimplement dist-cvs in another VCS (for instance, dist-hg) with minimal change in workflow but there are some higher level questions about what things we want to make easy that we should answer first. The SCM SIG [1]_ is responsible for driving this discussion and as part of that, we're soliciting input on what our high level goals are. Here's an initial list of questions that need to be answered. We will be discussing this and likely making some decisions at FudCon so we're hoping we can get some good input of these goals now to make sure we take into account all the goals that people want the new system to address. VCS Redesign Plan[2]_ We need to answer these overarching goals before we can decide how to redesign the VCS. == Goals that the VCS can Help Achieve == Decide on goals and prioritize them so we can evaluate what architectures implement these features the best. * Work closer with upstream * Work closer with downstream * Make it easy to manage large numbers of patches * Keep the barrier of entry for new contributors low == High Level Architecture == There are some highlevel design decisions that will have an effect on whichever underlying VCS we use. The architecture will enable us to more effectively achieve our goals. * Exploded trees * Patches & spec plus lookaside cache == Workflow for the VCS == * jcollie has started a page that abstracts our current workflow with cvs-dist: http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Infrastructure/VersionControl/Operations == What VCS Makes it Easiest to Implement our Goals == After we answer the above questions we can answer this. [1]_: http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Infrastructure/SCMSig [2]_ : This information is recorded on the wiki at: http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Infrastructure/VersionControl/HighLevelRedesign -Toshio -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: signature.asc Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 189 bytes Desc: This is a digitally signed message part URL: From smooge at gmail.com Thu Jan 18 23:00:47 2007 From: smooge at gmail.com (Stephen John Smoogen) Date: Thu, 18 Jan 2007 16:00:47 -0700 Subject: fedora-d-rh] Re: plans for long term support releases? In-Reply-To: <45AD921A.4020505@mharris.ca> References: <200701160856.24714.jkeating@redhat.com> <45AD921A.4020505@mharris.ca> Message-ID: <80d7e4090701181500m1a8d8c87qa297b8a21aefcd12@mail.gmail.com> On 1/16/07, Mike A. Harris wrote: > Thomas M Steenholdt wrote: > > > This is why I suggested an more stable (in terms of changes) LTS spin, > > perhaps, for every 2-4 normal Fedora releases, to provide a Fedora that > > could actually be used in these situations. > > There is already. It's called "Red Hat Enterprise Linux". There are > alternatives as well based upon rebuilding the SRPMS from RHEL. The > only difference is that they do not have the "Fedora" brand name tacked > onto them and they're physically built on computers elsewhere. To the > best of my understanding, all the rebuilding work is also done by people > whom contribute directly or indirectly to the Fedora Project in an > ongoing basis in some manner. > > So, what people are asking for _already_ exists, just under a different > name. To duplicate _their_ existing effort would be a waste of > resources to whoever was doing the work. > > But then that's the problem isn't it... Nobody _wants_ to do the work, > rather they want _someone_else_ to do the work. But those someone > elses that could do the work - are already doing the work, and naming it > CentOS, or one of the other similar projects out there. > Amen brother. I would be happy to do the work, but there are very few people who would want to pay me enough to cover the US $175.00 per hour per person to do development, QA, business management, benefits, electricity, servers etc for the older packages. Those who would pay for it, will find that it is more cost effective for someone to support Centos, Red Hat, etc for them. [Basically, a minimum effort to support 1-2 OS's per year would need to cover a minimum of 3.5 million dollars in expenses for a small staff of 10 people. ] Doing new stuff costs little because people like to add new gizmos. Going back and fixing other peoples code versus rewriting etc takes a lot more time, a lot more effort, and a lot more willpower. -- Stephen J Smoogen. -- CSIRT/Linux System Administrator How far that little candle throws his beams! So shines a good deed in a naughty world. = Shakespeare. "The Merchant of Venice" From zing at fastmail.fm Fri Jan 19 00:27:28 2007 From: zing at fastmail.fm (Zing) Date: Thu, 18 Jan 2007 19:27:28 -0500 Subject: plans for long term support releases? References: <1169009497.3457.48.camel@laptopd505.fenrus.org> <200701172043.l0HKhG5A001597@laptop13.inf.utfsm.cl> <45AE9EC6.4020005@olen.net> <45AF29C7.7050504@redhat.com> Message-ID: On Thu, 18 Jan 2007 18:03:19 +1000, Jens Petersen wrote: > Zing wrote: >> [...] I don't think upgrades between major RHEL releases are supported? > > Sure they are. well, this conflicts from what josh boyer said elsewhere in another thread... here's a search from the knowledgebase: http://kbase.redhat.com/faq/FAQ_85_6971.shtm Warning: Upgrading is unsupported by Red Hat and is known to cause erratic system behavior in some cases. It is only provided as an emergency, temporary option. If you experience problems with your upgraded system and you are seeking assistance from Red Hat Support, you will be instructed to perform a clean installation. From petersen at redhat.com Fri Jan 19 01:32:44 2007 From: petersen at redhat.com (Jens Petersen) Date: Fri, 19 Jan 2007 11:32:44 +1000 Subject: plans for long term support releases? In-Reply-To: References: <1169009497.3457.48.camel@laptopd505.fenrus.org> <200701172043.l0HKhG5A001597@laptop13.inf.utfsm.cl> <45AE9EC6.4020005@olen.net> <45AF29C7.7050504@redhat.com> Message-ID: <45B01FBC.9070202@redhat.com> Zing wrote: > On Thu, 18 Jan 2007 18:03:19 +1000, Jens Petersen wrote: > >> Zing wrote: >>> I don't think upgrades between major RHEL releases are supported? >> Sure they are. > > well, this conflicts from what josh boyer said elsewhere in another > thread... here's a search from the knowledgebase: > http://kbase.redhat.com/faq/FAQ_85_6971.shtm Okay, I should qualify my terse comment: you're right from the Technical Support point of view, my comment was referring to installer support, etc. Sorry for any confusion caused. Jens From mmcgrath at fedoraproject.org Fri Jan 19 01:48:05 2007 From: mmcgrath at fedoraproject.org (Mike McGrath) Date: Thu, 18 Jan 2007 19:48:05 -0600 Subject: plans for long term support releases? In-Reply-To: <45B01FBC.9070202@redhat.com> References: <1169009497.3457.48.camel@laptopd505.fenrus.org> <200701172043.l0HKhG5A001597@laptop13.inf.utfsm.cl> <45AE9EC6.4020005@olen.net> <45AF29C7.7050504@redhat.com> <45B01FBC.9070202@redhat.com> Message-ID: <3237e4410701181748w2f603d3dm66ecafff0d7ab168@mail.gmail.com> This thread should be dead already, seriously. Put your money where your mouth is. Those thinking the support cycle should be longer need to do something about it, otherwise this whole discussion is merely academic. -Mike From peter at thecodergeek.com Fri Jan 19 02:18:03 2007 From: peter at thecodergeek.com (Peter Gordon) Date: Thu, 18 Jan 2007 18:18:03 -0800 Subject: Support for mysql++ in Fedora? In-Reply-To: <6c0aa9500701180827k64318341i5506c7879458db5f@mail.gmail.com> References: <6c0aa9500701180827k64318341i5506c7879458db5f@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <1169173084.3687.12.camel@localhost> On Thu, 2007-01-18 at 11:27 -0500, Bruce Keats wrote: > Are there any plans to add mysql++ library support in FC5, FC6 or > future Fedora releases? Doesn't look like it. It'd probably make a good candidate for inclusion in Fedora Extras if you're up to it. Take a look at the Extras/Contributors page [1] on the wiki for more information on how to get started if you would like to contribute this packaging to Fedora. Also, I've added it to the wiki Extras/WishList page [2]. (Just please...for the love of $DEITY, don't use their spec file if you plan to package it. That thing needs LOTS and LOTS of loving before being _almost_ compliant with Fedora's packaging guidelines. :O) [1] http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Extras/Contributors [2] http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Extras/WishList -- Peter Gordon (codergeek42) / FSF Associate Member #5015 GnuPG Public Key ID: 0xFFC19479 / Fingerprint: DD68 A414 56BD 6368 D957 9666 4268 CB7A FFC1 9479 Blog: http://thecodergeek.com/blog/ About: http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/PeterGordon -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: signature.asc Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 189 bytes Desc: This is a digitally signed message part URL: From Fedora at FamilleCollet.com Fri Jan 19 06:33:35 2007 From: Fedora at FamilleCollet.com (Remi Collet) Date: Fri, 19 Jan 2007 07:33:35 +0100 Subject: Support for mysql++ in Fedora? In-Reply-To: <1169173084.3687.12.camel@localhost> References: <6c0aa9500701180827k64318341i5506c7879458db5f@mail.gmail.com> <1169173084.3687.12.camel@localhost> Message-ID: <45B0663F.4010601@FamilleCollet.com> Peter Gordon a ?crit : > On Thu, 2007-01-18 at 11:27 -0500, Bruce Keats wrote: >> Are there any plans to add mysql++ library support in FC5, FC6 or >> future Fedora releases? I've build RPM for FC3, FC4, FC5 (i386) and FC6 (i386 + x86_64), available on my "little" repo : http://remi.collet.free.fr/index.php?2006/04/09/138-mysql-211-1 > (Just please...for the love of $DEITY, don't use their spec file if you > plan to package it. That thing needs LOTS and LOTS of loving before > being _almost_ compliant with Fedora's packaging guidelines. :O) I really miss time to push them on the Extras official repository... And yes, a lot of work is needed. Some already done for my spec. But it's a very old one, probably not suitable for Extras (that's why it's not already in the Extras). Remi From buildsys at redhat.com Fri Jan 19 08:12:16 2007 From: buildsys at redhat.com (buildsys at redhat.com) Date: Fri, 19 Jan 2007 03:12:16 -0500 Subject: rawhide report: 20070119 changes Message-ID: <200701190812.l0J8CG9V019432@hs20-bc2-6.build.redhat.com> Updated Packages: PyQt-3.17-3 ----------- * Thu Jan 18 2007 Than Ngo - 3.17-3 - rebuilt anaconda-11.2.0.12-1 -------------------- * Thu Jan 18 2007 Jeremy Katz - 11.2.0.12-1 - Fix so that package selection in the yum backend is actually enabled - UI tweaks so that we work better with a real window manager - Ensure that file contexts are reset to the right thing after a live CD copy - Fix another ks.cfg traceback - Make it easier to do a 32bit build on a 64bit host * Thu Jan 18 2007 Jeremy Katz - 11.2.0.11-1 - Add backend for installing from a live CD - Make backend controllable from the installclass - Bring up loopback device in ks (clumens, #191424) - Fix traceback with writing ks.cfg (clumens) - Add support for new vesamenu bits in syslinux - Allow for updates.img to be a cpioball (dlehman) - Fix use of halt in ks.cfg (pjones, #222953) - Fix traceback in text mode network config (Elliot Peele) autoconf-2.61-3 --------------- * Thu Jan 18 2007 Karsten Hopp 2.61-3 - don't abort (un)install scriptlets when _excludedocs is set (Ville Skytt??) automake-1.10-3 --------------- * Thu Jan 18 2007 Karsten Hopp 1.10-3 - don't abort (un)install scriptlets when _excludedocs is set (Ville Skytt??) * Tue Nov 21 2006 Karsten Hopp 1.10-2 - rebuild * Fri Nov 10 2006 Karsten Hopp 1.10-1 - automake 1.10 dump-0.4b41-3.fc7 ----------------- * Thu Jan 18 2007 Adam Tkac 0.4b41-3.fc7 - dump is now linked dynamically - removed termcap dependency ed-0.3-3 -------- * Thu Jan 18 2007 Karsten Hopp 0.3-3 - don't abort (un)install scriptlets when _excludedocs is set (Ville Skytt??) * Thu Jan 18 2007 Karsten Hopp 0.3-2 - fix man page permissions (#222581) fbset-2.1-24.fc7 ---------------- * Thu Jan 18 2007 Jindrich Novy - 2.1-24 - add dist tag, minor rpmlint fix fedora-logos-6.0.90-1.fc7 ------------------------- * Thu Jan 18 2007 Jeremy Katz - 6.0.90-1 - add syslinux splash for use with graphical menu firefox-2.0.0.1-3.fc7 --------------------- * Thu Jan 18 2007 Christopher Aillon 2.0.0.1-3 - Remove the XLIB_SKIP_ARGB_VISUALS=1 workaround; the plugin got fixed. freetype-2.3.0-2.fc7 -------------------- * Wed Jan 17 2007 Behdad Esfahbod 2.3.0-2 - Add without_subpixel_rendering. - Drop X11_PATH=/usr. Not needed anymore. gaim-2:2.0.0-0.29.beta5.fc7 --------------------------- * Thu Jan 18 2007 Warren Togami - 2:2.0.0-0.29.beta5 - Debian patch 17_upnp_crash - Debian patch 18_jabber-roster-crash ghostscript-8.15.3-5.fc7 ------------------------ * Thu Jan 18 2007 Tim Waugh 8.15.3-5 - Backported gxcht 64bit crash fix from GPL trunk (bug #177763). gphoto2-2.3.1-3.fc7 ------------------- * Thu Jan 18 2007 Jindrich Novy 2.3.1-3 - gphoto2-devel requires libusb-devel (#222015) libthai-0.1.7-4.fc7 ------------------- * Wed Jan 17 2007 Behdad Esfahbod 0.1.7-4 - Patch libthai.pc.in to not require datrie. pango-1.15.4-5.fc7 ------------------ * Thu Jan 18 2007 Behdad Esfahbod - 1.15.4-5 - Again... HELLO.txt is moved. * Thu Jan 18 2007 Behdad Esfahbod - 1.15.4-4 - Bump again. I accidentally tagged 1.15.3-4 as 1.15.4-3 previously :(. * Thu Jan 18 2007 Behdad Esfahbod - 1.15.4-3 - s/HELLO.utf8/HELLO.txt/ to match upstream. sip-4.5.2-1 ----------- * Thu Jan 18 2007 Than Ngo - 4.5.2-1 - 4.5.2 symlinks-1.2-25.fc7 ------------------- * Thu Jan 18 2007 Tim Waugh 1.2-25 - Build with LFS support (bug #206407). tzdata-2007a-1.fc7 ------------------ * Thu Jan 18 2007 Petr Machata - 2007a-1 - Upstream 2007a - Updates to Bahamas, they will be in sync with 2007 US DST change - New zone Australia/Eucla - Africa/Asmera renamed to Africa/Asmara, link created - Atlantic/Faeroe renamed to Atlantic/Faroe, link created - Packaging - Adding BuildRequires: glibc-common >= 2.5.90-7 to build tzdata with extended 64-bit format necessary for dates beyond 2037 vsftpd-2.0.5-12.fc7 ------------------- * Thu Jan 18 2007 Radek Vok??l - 2.0.5-12 - add dist tag - add buildrequires tcp_wrappers-devel * Wed Jan 17 2007 Maros Barabas - 2.0.5-11 - add errno EACCES to not die by vsf_sysutil_bind - Resolves #198677 * Thu Dec 14 2006 Maros Barabas - 2.0.5-10 - correct man (5) pages - Resolves: #216765 - correct calling function stat - Resolves: bz200763 wget-1.10.2-12.fc7 ------------------ * Thu Jan 18 2007 Karsten Hopp 1.10.2-12 - don't abort (un)install scriptlets when _excludedocs is set (Ville Skytt??) xterm-223-2.fc7 --------------- * Thu Jan 18 2007 Miroslav Lichvar 223-2 - make xterm binary sgid utempter (#222847) - fix font size changes with -fa option (#222340) - fix redrawing of internal border (#223027) - enable metaSendsEscape resource and set modifyFunctionKeys to 0 by default Broken deps for s390 ---------------------------------------------------------- systemtap - 0.5.10-1.fc7.s390 requires kernel >= 0:2.6.9-11 systemtap-runtime - 0.5.10-1.fc7.s390 requires kernel >= 0:2.6.9-11 From kzak at redhat.com Fri Jan 19 09:20:32 2007 From: kzak at redhat.com (Karel Zak) Date: Fri, 19 Jan 2007 10:20:32 +0100 Subject: New VCS Choice; SCM SIG In-Reply-To: <1169160615.14225.127.camel@localhost.localdomain> References: <1169160615.14225.127.camel@localhost.localdomain> Message-ID: <20070119092032.GN3978@petra.dvoda.cz> On Thu, Jan 18, 2007 at 02:50:15PM -0800, Toshio Kuratomi wrote: > == Workflow for the VCS == > * jcollie has started a page that abstracts our current workflow with > cvs-dist: > http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Infrastructure/VersionControl/Operations This is very minimalist list of operations, I also use: * diff between branches * diff between actual non-commited code and the latest commit * check log of changes We will see more typical operations when more people will contribute to same source code (package), like * remove patch * test new patches in private topic branch(s) * merge branches .. etc. Karel -- Karel Zak From ndbecker2 at gmail.com Fri Jan 19 11:17:03 2007 From: ndbecker2 at gmail.com (Neal Becker) Date: Fri, 19 Jan 2007 06:17:03 -0500 Subject: Fixing startup behavior of kde net apps Message-ID: I'd like to add the following goal for fc7: All apps that require net connection for startup should be modified to only start if a network connection is available. For example, when I login the following start: kopete kontact (kmail) akregator ksmarttray If my net connection is not up, every one of these things pops up all kinds of windows with error messages. When I brought up this issue on the NM develop list, it was mentioned that suse had modified this apps to fix this behavior. I don't know if they fed the changes upstream. I would guess that the right thing to do is to listen on dbus for network connection being up? In any case, the current behavior is awful and should be fixed. From rdieter at math.unl.edu Fri Jan 19 12:00:55 2007 From: rdieter at math.unl.edu (Rex Dieter) Date: Fri, 19 Jan 2007 06:00:55 -0600 Subject: Fixing startup behavior of kde net apps In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: Neal Becker wrote: > All apps that require net connection for startup should be modified to only > start if a network connection is available. > > For example, when I login the following start: > > kopete > kontact (kmail) > akregator > ksmarttray > > If my net connection is not up, every one of these things pops up all kinds > of windows with error messages. > > When I brought up this issue on the NM develop list, it was mentioned that > suse had modified this apps to fix this behavior. Any links/references? -- Rex From keithishere2004 at gmail.com Fri Jan 19 12:37:22 2007 From: keithishere2004 at gmail.com (Keith G) Date: Fri, 19 Jan 2007 12:37:22 +0000 Subject: Fixing startup behavior of kde net apps In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <667750500701190437l581ac5c3m41a0c295851a0018@mail.gmail.com> On 19/01/07, Rex Dieter wrote: > Neal Becker wrote: > > > All apps that require net connection for startup should be modified to only > > start if a network connection is available. > > > > For example, when I login the following start: > > > > kopete > > kontact (kmail) > > akregator > > ksmarttray > > > > If my net connection is not up, every one of these things pops up all kinds > > of windows with error messages. > > > > When I brought up this issue on the NM develop list, it was mentioned that > > suse had modified this apps to fix this behavior. > > Any links/references? Definately sounds like an upstream issue to me. From ndbecker2 at gmail.com Fri Jan 19 14:28:50 2007 From: ndbecker2 at gmail.com (Neal Becker) Date: Fri, 19 Jan 2007 09:28:50 -0500 Subject: dkms for fc7? Message-ID: I know there was some discussion about dkms for fedora. It seemed (to me) mostly positive. Is there interest in pushing this forward for fc7? From thias at spam.spam.spam.spam.spam.spam.spam.egg.and.spam.freshrpms.net Fri Jan 19 14:35:56 2007 From: thias at spam.spam.spam.spam.spam.spam.spam.egg.and.spam.freshrpms.net (Matthias Saou) Date: Fri, 19 Jan 2007 15:35:56 +0100 Subject: dkms for fc7? In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <20070119153556.7bf08b28@python3.es.egwn.lan> Neal Becker wrote : > I know there was some discussion about dkms for fedora. It seemed (to me) > mostly positive. Is there interest in pushing this forward for fc7? This has already been discussed before : 1) dkms is in Fedora (Extras), so you're good to go. 2) Fedora seems to be more interested in working on a long term solution for kernel modules, having them cleanly available as rpm packages, instead of starting using dkms. I perfectly understand the decision, but went for the best short term solution already available (IMHO), dkms, in my freshrpms.net packages ;-) And it's been a real success given all the positive feedback I get, especially for the nvidia driver. Not to mention how it's made life soooo much easier for me to track Rawhide on my home computer which has a madwifi chip and and lirc_serial remote control! Matthias -- Clean custom Red Hat Linux rpm packages : http://freshrpms.net/ Fedora Core release 6 (Zod) - Linux kernel 2.6.19-1.2895.fc6 Load : 7.76 4.76 3.33 From denis at poolshark.org Fri Jan 19 14:42:17 2007 From: denis at poolshark.org (Denis Leroy) Date: Fri, 19 Jan 2007 15:42:17 +0100 Subject: dkms for fc7? In-Reply-To: <20070119153556.7bf08b28@python3.es.egwn.lan> References: <20070119153556.7bf08b28@python3.es.egwn.lan> Message-ID: <45B0D8C9.8000409@poolshark.org> Matthias Saou wrote: > Neal Becker wrote : > >> I know there was some discussion about dkms for fedora. It seemed (to me) >> mostly positive. Is there interest in pushing this forward for fc7? > > This has already been discussed before : > > 1) dkms is in Fedora (Extras), so you're good to go. > 2) Fedora seems to be more interested in working on a long term > solution for kernel modules, having them cleanly available as rpm > packages, instead of starting using dkms. > > I perfectly understand the decision, but went for the best short term > solution already available (IMHO), dkms, in my freshrpms.net > packages ;-) And it's been a real success given all the positive > feedback I get, especially for the nvidia driver. Not to mention how > it's made life soooo much easier for me to track Rawhide on my home > computer which has a madwifi chip and and lirc_serial remote control! I'm one of those happy users. I use it for the nvidia, ntfs, ndiswrapper and madwifi drivers. It just works. Personally I don't see the advantages of having "clean" rpms for each module versus the elegant dkms solution, but to each his/her own... From nicolas.mailhot at laposte.net Fri Jan 19 15:13:24 2007 From: nicolas.mailhot at laposte.net (Nicolas Mailhot) Date: Fri, 19 Jan 2007 16:13:24 +0100 (CET) Subject: dkms for fc7? In-Reply-To: <45B0D8C9.8000409@poolshark.org> References: <20070119153556.7bf08b28@python3.es.egwn.lan> <45B0D8C9.8000409@poolshark.org> Message-ID: <39566.192.54.193.51.1169219604.squirrel@rousalka.dyndns.org> Le Ven 19 janvier 2007 15:42, Denis Leroy a ?crit : > I'm one of those happy users. I use it for the nvidia, ntfs, ndiswrapper > and madwifi drivers. It just works. Personally I don't see the > advantages of having "clean" rpms for each module versus the elegant > dkms solution, but to each his/her own... dkms sort of works for kernel levels out-of-tree drivers bother to support ; finding a working combinaison of kernel & out-of-tree driver versions quickly degenerates (even for big drivers like nvidia) Out-of-tree driver writer 1 will say "I only support 2.6.x proper" Out-of-tree driver writer 2 will say "I only support up to 2.6.x-rcy" davej will say "I'll ship 2.6.x.3 in because previous releases are missing a critical fix and that matches the Fedora release schedule" Of course you can personnally wait a few weeks for everything to settle, but you are depending on the people not using out-of-tree drivers to test and stabilize the kernel for you. If dkms is generalized these people won't exist anymore. -- Nicolas Mailhot From pemboa at gmail.com Fri Jan 19 16:45:59 2007 From: pemboa at gmail.com (Arthur Pemberton) Date: Fri, 19 Jan 2007 10:45:59 -0600 Subject: Fedora Tracker is in need of a new home In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <16de708d0701190845h325ad5c9xd372e6eb7897f281@mail.gmail.com> On 1/18/07, Brad Smith wrote: > Hello all, > > Since its creation, I have used the same $10/mo web host for Fedora > Tracker. However, as the number of repositories indexed has grown, the > update process has begun to involve longer and longer periods of > nontrivial memory and cpu usage, which my hosting company can no > longer justify devoting to a single customer. > > Does anyone have server space they would be willing to donate to > Fedora Tracker? Requirements would be MySQL 5.x and Python >= 2.4, > plus shell access for me. sudo privs would be helpful but are not > necessary. > > Any takers? > --Brad I feel your pain, unfortunately I have nothing reliable to offer. Have you considered moving the heavy lifting to a workstation, and just uploading the result to the server? Good luck. -- Fedora Core 6 and proud From brucekeats at gmail.com Fri Jan 19 17:20:39 2007 From: brucekeats at gmail.com (Bruce Keats) Date: Fri, 19 Jan 2007 12:20:39 -0500 Subject: Support for mysql++ in Fedora? In-Reply-To: <1169173084.3687.12.camel@localhost> References: <6c0aa9500701180827k64318341i5506c7879458db5f@mail.gmail.com> <1169173084.3687.12.camel@localhost> Message-ID: <6c0aa9500701190920y2973bcdfg7a6c32d59e030dff@mail.gmail.com> I am willing to do get it into the extras, but I am new to Fedora's packaging guidelines. Are they documented somewhere? If I do the work then can the mysql++ RPMs be included in the FC5, FC6, etc releases? As well, where do the binary RPMs come from? Do I build them or is there a special build system that creates the binary RPMs once the source RPM is created? Thanks, Bruce On 1/18/07, Peter Gordon wrote: > > On Thu, 2007-01-18 at 11:27 -0500, Bruce Keats wrote: > > Are there any plans to add mysql++ library support in FC5, FC6 or > > future Fedora releases? > > Doesn't look like it. It'd probably make a good candidate for inclusion > in Fedora Extras if you're up to it. Take a look at the > Extras/Contributors page [1] on the wiki for more information on how to > get started if you would like to contribute this packaging to Fedora. > > Also, I've added it to the wiki Extras/WishList page [2]. > > (Just please...for the love of $DEITY, don't use their spec file if you > plan to package it. That thing needs LOTS and LOTS of loving before > being _almost_ compliant with Fedora's packaging guidelines. :O) > > > [1] http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Extras/Contributors > [2] http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Extras/WishList > > -- > Peter Gordon (codergeek42) / FSF Associate Member #5015 > GnuPG Public Key ID: 0xFFC19479 / Fingerprint: > DD68 A414 56BD 6368 D957 9666 4268 CB7A FFC1 9479 > Blog: http://thecodergeek.com/blog/ > About: http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/PeterGordon > > > -- > fedora-devel-list mailing list > fedora-devel-list at redhat.com > https://www.redhat.com/mailman/listinfo/fedora-devel-list > > > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From lamont at gurulabs.com Fri Jan 19 17:27:33 2007 From: lamont at gurulabs.com (Lamont Peterson) Date: Fri, 19 Jan 2007 10:27:33 -0700 Subject: Support for mysql++ in Fedora? In-Reply-To: <6c0aa9500701190920y2973bcdfg7a6c32d59e030dff@mail.gmail.com> References: <6c0aa9500701180827k64318341i5506c7879458db5f@mail.gmail.com> <1169173084.3687.12.camel@localhost> <6c0aa9500701190920y2973bcdfg7a6c32d59e030dff@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <200701191027.37739.lamont@gurulabs.com> On Friday 19 January 2007 10:20am, Bruce Keats wrote: > I am willing to do get it into the extras, but I am new to Fedora's > packaging guidelines. Are they documented somewhere? On the [ http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Extras/Contributors ] page that Peter referenced, is a link to the Packaging Guidelines page, which is [ http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Packaging/Guidelines ]. [snip] -- Lamont Peterson Senior Instructor Guru Labs, L.C. [ http://www.GuruLabs.com/ ] NOTE: All messages from this email address should be digitally signed with my 0xDC0DD409 GPG key. It is available on the pgp.mit.edu keyserver as well as other keyservers that sync with MIT's. -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 189 bytes Desc: not available URL: From fedora at camperquake.de Fri Jan 19 18:07:17 2007 From: fedora at camperquake.de (Ralf Ertzinger) Date: Fri, 19 Jan 2007 19:07:17 +0100 Subject: Fedora 7 vs 6 installation In-Reply-To: <45A64518.4070200@fedoraproject.org> References: <002801c7352d$84cebc10$020aa8c0@a18> <1168486035.3347.8.camel@lt21223.campus.dmacc.edu> <003801c73537$bce90650$020aa8c0@a18> <1168490721.5262.1.camel@cutter> <004201c7354f$e89f9710$020aa8c0@a18> <45A64174.6010105@fedoraproject.org> <20070111150414.2a7edd24@banea.int.addix.net> <45A64518.4070200@fedoraproject.org> Message-ID: <20070119190717.519ef5fb@banea.int.addix.net> Hi. On Thu, 11 Jan 2007 19:39:28 +0530, Rahul Sundaram wrote: > > Which, sometimes, makes quite weird decisions, in my experience. > > Bug reports? #223488, in case you are still interested. From usernamenumber at gmail.com Fri Jan 19 18:19:30 2007 From: usernamenumber at gmail.com (Brad Smith) Date: Fri, 19 Jan 2007 13:19:30 -0500 Subject: Fedora Tracker is in need of a new home In-Reply-To: <16de708d0701190845h325ad5c9xd372e6eb7897f281@mail.gmail.com> References: <16de708d0701190845h325ad5c9xd372e6eb7897f281@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: > I feel your pain, unfortunately I have nothing reliable to offer. Have > you considered moving the heavy lifting to a workstation, and just > uploading the result to the server? That is an interesting idea. I suppose I could update the db on my system at home, but getting the changes to the server's db sounds... complicated. Some ideas: It might be a good excuse to play with mysql replication, but that would almost certainly involve talking my hosting company into making some changes to their configuration and there's a good chance that won't happen. Another option might be having the update tool just spit out a mysql script. That'd take time I don't have at the moment, but would probably be the simplest solution. Any other suggestions along these lines? --Brad From pemboa at gmail.com Fri Jan 19 18:25:59 2007 From: pemboa at gmail.com (Arthur Pemberton) Date: Fri, 19 Jan 2007 12:25:59 -0600 Subject: Fedora Tracker is in need of a new home In-Reply-To: References: <16de708d0701190845h325ad5c9xd372e6eb7897f281@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <16de708d0701191025u461b6327y68b784e725b918de@mail.gmail.com> On 1/19/07, Brad Smith wrote: > > I feel your pain, unfortunately I have nothing reliable to offer. Have > > you considered moving the heavy lifting to a workstation, and just > > uploading the result to the server? > > That is an interesting idea. I suppose I could update the db on my > system at home, but getting the changes to the server's db sounds... > complicated. Some ideas: > > It might be a good excuse to play with mysql replication, but that > would almost certainly involve talking my hosting company into making > some changes to their configuration and there's a good chance that > won't happen. > > Another option might be having the update tool just spit out a mysql > script. That'd take time I don't have at the moment, but would > probably be the simplest solution. > > Any other suggestions along these lines? > --Brad > Wish I knew what the db structure and data requirements were. In my ignorance I would suggest having a workstation app basically regenerate the database. And have a server script lock, and reload the new database, from .sql or .xml. If you can provide a description of what the server does (processing wise) as it is, I might be able to come up with a more intelligent solution. -- Fedora Core 6 and proud From skvidal at linux.duke.edu Fri Jan 19 18:35:39 2007 From: skvidal at linux.duke.edu (seth vidal) Date: Fri, 19 Jan 2007 13:35:39 -0500 Subject: Fedora Tracker is in need of a new home In-Reply-To: References: <16de708d0701190845h325ad5c9xd372e6eb7897f281@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <1169231739.15330.27.camel@cutter> On Fri, 2007-01-19 at 13:19 -0500, Brad Smith wrote: > > I feel your pain, unfortunately I have nothing reliable to offer. Have > > you considered moving the heavy lifting to a workstation, and just > > uploading the result to the server? > > That is an interesting idea. I suppose I could update the db on my > system at home, but getting the changes to the server's db sounds... > complicated. Some ideas: > > It might be a good excuse to play with mysql replication, but that > would almost certainly involve talking my hosting company into making > some changes to their configuration and there's a good chance that > won't happen. > > Another option might be having the update tool just spit out a mysql > script. That'd take time I don't have at the moment, but would > probably be the simplest solution. > > Any other suggestions along these lines? If you don't have links to third party repositories and nothing that could be considered 'contributory infringment' then your service would fit well in the fedora infrastructure. But right now I know you point to places like livna, freshrpms, etc and those have things we're not allowed to point to. -sv From hughsient at gmail.com Fri Jan 19 18:30:51 2007 From: hughsient at gmail.com (Richard Hughes) Date: Fri, 19 Jan 2007 18:30:51 +0000 Subject: Fedora 7 encrypted root partition Message-ID: <1169231451.11652.5.camel@hughsie-laptop> Talking to a co-worker today, he mentioned that if Fedora could support [1] an encrypted root filesystem he would switch to Fedora in a heartbeat. We appear to be 99% of the way there with LUKS, and I'm pretty sure you can hack encrypted root filesystem into FC6, but it would be great to have a: Encrypt partition to protect data [X] in anaconda. Even protecting just the "home" partition would be great, although everything would be perfect. What do you think? Richard. [1] and I mean support, rather than able to hack at a random file and do lots of stuff on the console. From mmcgrath at fedoraproject.org Fri Jan 19 19:44:49 2007 From: mmcgrath at fedoraproject.org (Mike McGrath) Date: Fri, 19 Jan 2007 13:44:49 -0600 Subject: Fedora Email Addresses Changing! Message-ID: <3237e4410701191144n37f30855l9260cf07160da367@mail.gmail.com> For those of you using first.last at fedoraproject.org please be advised that starting February 1st we will no longer be allowing the first.last at fedoraproject.org (This is due to technical and syntactical issues). The username at fedoraproject.org email addresses will work just fine. If this will cause a huge issue to you please contact me off-list so we can come to a satisfactory resolution. -Mike From katzj at redhat.com Fri Jan 19 19:50:06 2007 From: katzj at redhat.com (Jeremy Katz) Date: Fri, 19 Jan 2007 14:50:06 -0500 Subject: Fedora 7 encrypted root partition In-Reply-To: <1169231451.11652.5.camel@hughsie-laptop> References: <1169231451.11652.5.camel@hughsie-laptop> Message-ID: <1169236206.3157.5.camel@aglarond.local> On Fri, 2007-01-19 at 18:30 +0000, Richard Hughes wrote: > Talking to a co-worker today, he mentioned that if Fedora could support > [1] an encrypted root filesystem he would switch to Fedora in a > heartbeat. We appear to be 99% of the way there with LUKS, and I'm > pretty sure you can hack encrypted root filesystem into FC6, but it > would be great to have a: > > Encrypt partition to protect data [X] > > in anaconda. Even protecting just the "home" partition would be great, > although everything would be perfect. > > What do you think? The problem with doing this is that there really isn't any way to sanely prompt a user in their native language and allowing for their native keymap for a password prior to mounting the rootfs (and potentially more). This is an *incredibly* important thing to be able to do, but doing so ends up requiring a good chunk of X + fonts, etc. At which point, you really can't have your rootfs encrypted. As for /home, you really want to be able to encrypt things on a per-user basis. Not for the entirety of the block device (ie, you want it to be tied to the user!) ecryptfs promises to add the ability to do per filesystem tree encryption which will allow for the flexibility that is really needed to make encryption a viable option. Jeremy From luya_tfz at thefinalzone.com Fri Jan 19 20:11:13 2007 From: luya_tfz at thefinalzone.com (Luya Tshimbalanga) Date: Fri, 19 Jan 2007 12:11:13 -0800 Subject: Fedora Email Addresses Changing! In-Reply-To: <3237e4410701191144n37f30855l9260cf07160da367@mail.gmail.com> References: <3237e4410701191144n37f30855l9260cf07160da367@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <45B125E1.6050402@thefinalzone.com> Mike McGrath wrote: > For those of you using first.last at fedoraproject.org please be advised > that starting February 1st we will no longer be allowing the > first.last at fedoraproject.org (This is due to technical and > syntactical issues). The username at fedoraproject.org email addresses > will work just fine. > > If this will cause a huge issue to you please contact me off-list so > we can come to a satisfactory resolution. > > -Mike > I have always used username at fedoraproject.org so it is no big deal for me. Thanks for the message. -- Luya Tshimbalanga http://www.fedoraproject.org/wiki/LuyaTshimbalanga From usernamenumber at gmail.com Fri Jan 19 20:47:23 2007 From: usernamenumber at gmail.com (Brad Smith) Date: Fri, 19 Jan 2007 15:47:23 -0500 Subject: Fedora Tracker is in need of a new home In-Reply-To: <1169231739.15330.27.camel@cutter> References: <16de708d0701190845h325ad5c9xd372e6eb7897f281@mail.gmail.com> <1169231739.15330.27.camel@cutter> Message-ID: > If you don't have links to third party repositories and nothing that > could be considered 'contributory infringment' then your service would > fit well in the fedora infrastructure. But right now I know you point to > places like livna, freshrpms, etc and those have things we're not > allowed to point to. I understand that. Come to think of it, it is very easy to control which repositories the tracker indexes. If it would get more people involved in Tracker's development, I would support the creation of an "Official" tracker that just indexes non-sketchy repositories, with a more inclusive tracker hosted elsewhere (or indexing everything, but not providing direct-dl links if that would satisfy people's concerns). With a web-accessable database of all of the metadata from multiple repositories, there's all kinds of cool stuff Tracker could do that I just don't have time to code. For example: - Providing "X Newest Updates/Changelogs" stats (plus rss feed of same) - Allow users to "watch" packages and be notified whenever there is an update - Identify inter-repository conflicts toward the end of making repos play nicely with each other ...etc. Is there actual interest in this? --Brad From usernamenumber at gmail.com Fri Jan 19 21:28:21 2007 From: usernamenumber at gmail.com (Brad Smith) Date: Fri, 19 Jan 2007 16:28:21 -0500 Subject: Fedora Tracker is in need of a new home In-Reply-To: References: <16de708d0701190845h325ad5c9xd372e6eb7897f281@mail.gmail.com> <1169231739.15330.27.camel@cutter> Message-ID: Since a few people have asked what kind of resource usage tracker has... The update script, which indexes xml metadata from the repos and uses it to update the database, was using about 350M of ram and 20%cpu on a quad 2.4ghz system the last time I checked. Improving efficiency is a top priority for me, but job-work doesn't leave me much time nowadays, so assume those reqs at least for the near future. --Brad From eswierk at arastra.com Fri Jan 19 21:48:18 2007 From: eswierk at arastra.com (Ed Swierk) Date: Fri, 19 Jan 2007 13:48:18 -0800 Subject: Automated installation joy Message-ID: My company uses Fedora for its software development platform, and over time we've built up a set of packages (called "Arora") that make it easy to assimilate a vanilla Fedora box into our environment. The Arora package spec file has long list of Requires for packages like gcc and xemacs, and the %post does useful things like adding printers and enabling ntpd. The Arora-release package takes the place of fedora-release, replacing the default yum.repos.d files with ones that point to our internal Fedora mirrors. I never bothered to fully automate the install process, though. Hacking on a Kickstart script to do all sorts of fancy stuff in %post wasn't my idea of a fun day's work. And it always bugged me that Anaconda would spend all that time installing a bunch of old packages, when the first thing I do is run yum update to replace a good portion of them. Now that Anaconda uses yum and lets you configure additional repositories, this should all be much easier, right? I should just add something like this to the Kickstart file I generated with system-config-kickstart: repo --name=updates --baseurl=http://mirrors.arastra.com/fedora/linux/core/updates/6/i386 repo --name=extras --baseurl=http://mirrors.arastra.com/fedora/linux/extras/6/i386 repo --name=Arora --baseurl=http://dist.arastra.com/Arora/i386_6/RPMS to set up the extra repositories, and install a minimal set of packages: %packages Arora-release Arora Arora-bs Sounds too easy. Guess what? It works perfectly! I kick off the install, wander away, and when I come back in 15 minutes, the machine is up and running, fully configured for our environment with all our development tools in place. As they say in those infomercials, just set it and forget it. Great work, Anaconda developers! --Ed From bruno at wolff.to Fri Jan 19 22:37:54 2007 From: bruno at wolff.to (Bruno Wolff III) Date: Fri, 19 Jan 2007 16:37:54 -0600 Subject: Fedora 7 encrypted root partition In-Reply-To: <1169231451.11652.5.camel@hughsie-laptop> References: <1169231451.11652.5.camel@hughsie-laptop> Message-ID: <20070119223754.GA23444@wolff.to> On Fri, Jan 19, 2007 at 18:30:51 +0000, Richard Hughes wrote: > Talking to a co-worker today, he mentioned that if Fedora could support > [1] an encrypted root filesystem he would switch to Fedora in a > heartbeat. We appear to be 99% of the way there with LUKS, and I'm > pretty sure you can hack encrypted root filesystem into FC6, but it > would be great to have a: > > Encrypt partition to protect data [X] > > in anaconda. Even protecting just the "home" partition would be great, > although everything would be perfect. > > What do you think? People are working on making this easier to do, though I don't think it will be part of Anaconda for Fedora 7 since there isn't much time left. Take a look at: http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Releases/FeatureEncryptedFilesystems While Jermey brings up some issues in his response, there are a lot of people that control the whole machine and don't need different encryption for different files and for which being able to stack their preferred file system with dmcrypt (and keeping things like write barriers working properly) would be a good thing. I don't think you need X working to be able to prompt people. And while a native language prompt would be nice, I don't see that as being critical at the get go. I can see the keymap being an issue, as that being messed up is going to leave you locked out. From mike at miketc.com Fri Jan 19 23:48:28 2007 From: mike at miketc.com (Mike Chambers) Date: Fri, 19 Jan 2007 17:48:28 -0600 Subject: Rawhide installable via NFS In-Reply-To: <1169072076.2596.4.camel@scrappy.miketc.com> References: <1169072076.2596.4.camel@scrappy.miketc.com> Message-ID: <1169250508.2583.1.camel@scrappy.miketc.com> On Wed, 2007-01-17 at 16:14 -0600, Mike Chambers wrote: > I keep getting "server can't mount that directory" or something like > that when I put in the server/dir names. > > And if it's not installable that way, can it be done via ftp/http at > least? > > I don't think I've been able to do a rawhide install for a month or two. Someone mentioned about if the server/dir was mounted or mountable, and yes it is. I tried again this morning after a new rawhide push, and same thing. I can't even do an FTP/HTTP install neither, even from an outside source. This has never happened before except the times I knew it wouldn't due ot knowing rawhide was busted at the time. I have no clue right now though. So guess am stuck with FC6+ until yum/python is updated. -- Mike Chambers Madisonville, KY "Sex is like air, it's not important unless your not getting any!" From saikat at cs.cornell.edu Fri Jan 19 23:48:49 2007 From: saikat at cs.cornell.edu (Saikat Guha) Date: Fri, 19 Jan 2007 18:48:49 -0500 Subject: Q: Howto rapidly develop/test without breaking local rpm db Message-ID: <1169250529.6793.27.camel@sioux.systems.cs.cornell.edu> Q: I want to fix bugs in/hack software I use (evolution, gaim, network-manager, compiz etc.). I typically have RPMs installed. What is the easiest way to have a development environment and a quick debug-compile-test loop without breaking the local RPM DB. * In particular, patching the .src.rpm and RPM rebuilding for each debug-compile loop is a definite no (too slow). * Similarly, 'sudo make install' is likely not an option (breaks local rpm tracking). * Per-package 'configure --prefix=..' is okay but requires chasing down application nuances (some need global gconf updated, some try to load plugins from outside the build tree, other applications and desktop-shortcuts need to be changed to point to the patched version etc.) * chroot jail (where I am comfortable doing a 'make install') seems too heavy weight. How do I rapidly develop/test on an RPM-managed box? cheers, -- Saikat -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: signature.asc Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 189 bytes Desc: This is a digitally signed message part URL: From buildsys at redhat.com Sat Jan 20 11:27:58 2007 From: buildsys at redhat.com (buildsys at redhat.com) Date: Sat, 20 Jan 2007 06:27:58 -0500 Subject: rawhide report: 20070120 changes Message-ID: <200701201127.l0KBRwLc007330@hs20-bc2-6.build.redhat.com> Updated Packages: alsa-lib-1.0.14-0.2.rc2.fc7 --------------------------- * Fri Jan 19 2007 Martin Stransky 1.0.14-0.2.rc2 - new upstream alsa-utils-1.0.14-0.3.rc2.fc7 ----------------------------- * Fri Jan 19 2007 Martin Stransky 1.0.14-0.3.rc2 - new upstream anaconda-11.2.0.13-1 -------------------- * Fri Jan 19 2007 Chris Lumens - 11.2.0.13-1 - Kickstart and upgrade are no longer installclasses. - Update x86_64 syslinux config (katzj). - Support %packages --default (#221305). - Fix early kickstart UI traceback. - Remove cruft in x86 images (katzj). - Fix error handling in loader netconfig screen (dcantrell). - Add libthai to graphical install (katzj). autofs-1:5.0.1-0.rc3.11 ----------------------- * Thu Jan 18 2007 Ian Kent - 5.0.1-0.rc3.11 - correct check for busy offset mounts before offset umount (bz 222872). bash-3.2-3.fc7 -------------- * Fri Jan 19 2007 Tim Waugh 3.2-3 - Back out rmatch change introduced in 3.2 (bug #220087). coreutils-6.7-2.fc7 ------------------- * Fri Jan 19 2007 Tim Waugh 6.7-2 - Build does not require libtermcap-devel. docbook-style-xsl-1.71.1-2.fc7 ------------------------------ * Fri Jan 19 2007 Tomas Mraz 1.71.1-2 - Add new wordml and especially highlighting (which is referenced from html) subdirs to Makefile. * Fri Jan 19 2007 Tim Waugh 1.71.1-1 - 1.71.1. No longer seem to need lists patch. Removed out of date sp patch. eclipse-cdt-1:3.1.1-7.fc7 ------------------------- * Wed Jan 17 2007 Jeff Johnston 3.1.1-7 - Resolves: #222350 - Rebase autotools to 0.0.6.1 source. - Add comments. - Put arch-specific jars in library dir. * Mon Dec 11 2006 Jeff Johnston 3.1.1-6 - Rebase autotools to 0.0.6 source. * Wed Nov 15 2006 Jeff Johnston 3.1.1-5 - Add cppunit support. festival-1.95-6.fc7 ------------------- * Fri Jan 19 2007 Miroslav Lichvar - 1.95-6 - link with ncurses - add dist tag - make scriptlets safer gok-1.2.1-2.fc7 --------------- * Fri Jan 19 2007 Matthias Clasen - 1.2.1-2 - Update to 1.2.1 hunspell-1.1.4-5.fc7 -------------------- * Fri Jan 19 2007 Caolan McNamara - 1.1.4-5 - .pc icu-3.6-15 ---------- * Fri Jan 19 2007 Caolan McNamara - 3.6-15 - Resolves: rhbz#214948 icu.icu5506.multiplevowels.patch lftp-3.5.9-1.fc7 ---------------- * Thu Jan 18 2007 Maros Barabas - 3.5.9 - Upgrade to 3.5.9 from upstream libdv-0:1.0.0-1.fc7 ------------------- * Fri Jan 19 2007 Jarod Wilson 1.0.0-1 - New upstream release - PIC patch from Mike Frysinger (#146596) - Re-enable asm on i386 * Thu Sep 21 2006 Jarod Wilson 0.104-5 - Disable asm on i386 for now to prevent text relocations in DSO libselinux-1.34.0-1.fc7 ----------------------- * Fri Jan 19 2007 Dan Walsh - 1.34.0-1 - Upgrade to upstream * Updated version for stable branch. libsepol-1.16.0-1.fc7 --------------------- * Fri Jan 19 2007 Dan Walsh 1.16.0-1 - Upgrade to latest from NSA * Updated version for stable branch. pam-0.99.7.0-1.fc7 ------------------ * Fri Jan 19 2007 Tomas Mraz 0.99.7.0-1 - upgrade to new upstream version - drop pam_stack module as it is obsolete - some changes to silence rpmlint * Tue Jan 16 2007 Tomas Mraz 0.99.6.2-8 - properly include /var/log/faillog and tallylog as ghosts and create them in post script (#209646) - update gmo files as we patch some po files (#218271) - add use_current_range option to pam_selinux (#220487) - improve the role selection in pam_selinux - remove shortcut on Password: in ja locale (#218271) - revert to old euid and not ruid when setting euid in pam_keyinit (#219486) - rename selinux-namespace patch to namespace-level * Fri Dec 01 2006 Dan Walsh 0.99.6.2-7 - fix selection of role parted-1.8.2-2.fc7 ------------------ * Thu Jan 18 2007 David Cantrell - 1.8.2-2 - Preserve starting sector for primary NTFS 3.1 partitions (Windows Vista) when modifying the DOS disk label. NTFS 3.1 partitions do not start on the 2nd head of the 1st cylinder at the beginning of the drive. pinfo-0.6.9-2.fc7 ----------------- * Fri Jan 19 2007 Miroslav Lichvar 0.6.9-2 - use correct group when dropping group privileges (#221107) - open also files without .info suffix - make scriptlets safer - make sure readline support isn't compiled in pykickstart-0.92-1.fc7 ---------------------- * Fri Jan 19 2007 Chris Lumens - 0.92-1 - Fix KickstartVersionError reporting. - Add a version attribute to handler objects. - Fix line number reporting on lots of commands. - Add initial support for Fedora 7 and remove deprecated commands. - Accept a --default argument to the %packages header (#221305). syslinux-3.31-2 --------------- * Thu Jan 18 2007 Jesse Keating - 3.31-2 - Make syslinux own /usr/lib/syslinux. system-config-display-1.0.48-1.fc7 ---------------------------------- * Thu Dec 07 2006 Adam Jackson 1.0.48-1 - Import old driver list code from rhpxl. (#218241) * Wed Dec 06 2006 Adam Jackson 1.0.47-1 - Fail gracefully on machines with no video. vsftpd-2.0.5-13.fc7 ------------------- * Fri Jan 19 2007 Maros Barabas - 2.0.5-13 - add lost patch: don't die when no user config file is present - Resolves #166986 xen-3.0.4-1.fc7 --------------- * Thu Jan 11 2007 Daniel P. Berrange - 3.0.4-1 - Upgrade to official xen-3.0.4_1 release tarball Broken deps for s390 ---------------------------------------------------------- systemtap - 0.5.10-1.fc7.s390 requires kernel >= 0:2.6.9-11 systemtap-runtime - 0.5.10-1.fc7.s390 requires kernel >= 0:2.6.9-11 From franklinux392 at yahoo.com Sat Jan 20 14:29:53 2007 From: franklinux392 at yahoo.com (Frank S.) Date: Sat, 20 Jan 2007 06:29:53 -0800 (PST) Subject: LEGAL,TRUE, or what? Message-ID: <680622.65561.qm@web54308.mail.yahoo.com> Hi I read this on Mint Linux Forum. please could someone comment on it. I would love to hear some opinions. Thank you very much http://lm.ltv2.nutime.de/forum/viewtopic.php?p=194#194 http://lm.ltv2.nutime.de/forum/viewtopic.php?p=1258#1258 http://lm.ltv2.nutime.de/forum/viewtopic.php?p=1264#1264 http://lm.ltv2.nutime.de/forum/viewtopic.php?p=1383#1383 http://lm.ltv2.nutime.de/forum/viewtopic.php?p=1390#1390 --------------------------------- Be a PS3 game guru. Get your game face on with the latest PS3 news and previews at Yahoo! Games. -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From sundaram at fedoraproject.org Sat Jan 20 15:33:51 2007 From: sundaram at fedoraproject.org (Rahul Sundaram) Date: Sat, 20 Jan 2007 21:03:51 +0530 Subject: LEGAL,TRUE, or what? In-Reply-To: <680622.65561.qm@web54308.mail.yahoo.com> References: <680622.65561.qm@web54308.mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <45B2365F.8080104@fedoraproject.org> Frank S. wrote: > Hi I read this on Mint Linux Forum. please could someone comment on it. > I would love to hear some opinions. > Thank you very much > > > http://lm.ltv2.nutime.de/forum/viewtopic.php?p=194#194 > http://lm.ltv2.nutime.de/forum/viewtopic.php?p=1258#1258 > http://lm.ltv2.nutime.de/forum/viewtopic.php?p=1264#1264 > http://lm.ltv2.nutime.de/forum/viewtopic.php?p=1383#1383 > http://lm.ltv2.nutime.de/forum/viewtopic.php?p=1390#1390 This is completely offtopic to this list. GPL and kernel modules are a well known legal grey area. Nobody here can give you any concrete legal opinion on this. Rahul From redhat at olen.net Sat Jan 20 15:46:31 2007 From: redhat at olen.net (Ola Thoresen) Date: Sat, 20 Jan 2007 16:46:31 +0100 Subject: LEGAL,TRUE, or what? In-Reply-To: <680622.65561.qm@web54308.mail.yahoo.com> References: <680622.65561.qm@web54308.mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <45B23957.1000708@olen.net> Frank S. wrote: > Hi I read this on Mint Linux Forum. please could someone comment on it. > I would love to hear some opinions. > Thank you very much There are actually two different issues here, which seesm to confuse the debate a bit. a) Does the GPL allow for something to be included in the distribution? b) Does the licence of the included part allow for it to be included? As for a) - this is only a problem if you use non-GPL-code to create a derivate product from GPL-code. As for b) - the problem is that the owner of the affected patents and code does not allow you to distribute it. The GPL makes it illegal for the kernel developers to include the closed source Nvidia-modules in the Linux kernel. But it is the mp3-patents and copyrights that makes it illegal for Fedora to include an mp3-support in the distribution, even if there are lots of GPL-mp3-players out there. It is the same problem with the earlier SUN Java-license (now they are slowly converting to GPL), and the Macromedia flashplayer-license. It is _SUN_ who does not allow Fedora to include SUN-java, and it is _Macromedia_ who restricts the distribution of their flash-player. -- _,--', _._.--._____ .--.--';_'-.', ";_ _.,-' Ola Thoresen .'--'. _.' {`'-;_ .-.>.' '-:_ ) / `' '=. It is easier to fix Unix ) > {_/, /~) than to live with Windows |/ `^ .' From bbbush.yuan at gmail.com Sat Jan 20 16:53:50 2007 From: bbbush.yuan at gmail.com (Yuan Yijun) Date: Sat, 20 Jan 2007 11:53:50 -0500 Subject: Gaim with bonjour plugin? Message-ID: <76e72f800701200853k1e73bfccw6c0d3a056733c649@mail.gmail.com> Hi, Since gaim-2.0.0beta6 is out and official download @ sf.net provides gaim-bonjour rpm (fc5 only?), is it good enough to be enabled by default in fedora? Thanks! -- bbbush ^_^ From tibbs at math.uh.edu Sat Jan 20 18:00:56 2007 From: tibbs at math.uh.edu (Jason L Tibbitts III) Date: 20 Jan 2007 12:00:56 -0600 Subject: dkms for fc7? In-Reply-To: <39566.192.54.193.51.1169219604.squirrel@rousalka.dyndns.org> References: <20070119153556.7bf08b28@python3.es.egwn.lan> <45B0D8C9.8000409@poolshark.org> <39566.192.54.193.51.1169219604.squirrel@rousalka.dyndns.org> Message-ID: >>>>> "NM" == Nicolas Mailhot writes: NM> dkms sort of works for kernel levels out-of-tree drivers bother to NM> support finding a working combinaison of kernel & out-of-tree NM> driver versions quickly degenerates (even for big drivers like NM> nvidia) You make it sound as if dkms is somehow a loss when compared with other methods. The set of kernels that a specific dkms-enabled module package supports (i.e. many) is still significantly larger than the set of kernels supported by the other module packaging schemes (one). Maintainer effort and end-user frustration are reduced. It is not possible for them to be eliminated due to the nature of out-of-tree modules. As far as I can see, the only downside to dkms modules is the requirement for a build environment on the client machines. (Well, that and the lack of a set of packaging guidelines. The build environment requirement kept dkms out of consideration for Fedora Extras kernel modules, a decision which I still find completely mind boggling.) - J< From nicolas.mailhot at laposte.net Sat Jan 20 19:16:40 2007 From: nicolas.mailhot at laposte.net (Nicolas Mailhot) Date: Sat, 20 Jan 2007 20:16:40 +0100 Subject: dkms for fc7? In-Reply-To: References: <20070119153556.7bf08b28@python3.es.egwn.lan> <45B0D8C9.8000409@poolshark.org> <39566.192.54.193.51.1169219604.squirrel@rousalka.dyndns.org> Message-ID: <1169320600.2601.10.camel@rousalka.dyndns.org> Le samedi 20 janvier 2007 ? 12:00 -0600, Jason L Tibbitts III a ?crit : > >>>>> "NM" == Nicolas Mailhot writes: > > NM> dkms sort of works for kernel levels out-of-tree drivers bother to > NM> support finding a working combinaison of kernel & out-of-tree > NM> driver versions quickly degenerates (even for big drivers like > NM> nvidia) > > You make it sound as if dkms is somehow a loss when compared with > other methods. dkms is much better than other methods. Unfortunately (as other posts have shown) users do not understand it, and feel they don't need to push for upstream kernel inclusion anymore. At least when Dell was the dkms gateway it was asking driver writers to merge upstream. Now we're going packaging for free, and many out-of-tree projects will only see as validation of their strategy (especially if there is a drop in user demand) -- Nicolas Mailhot -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: signature.asc Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 197 bytes Desc: Ceci est une partie de message num?riquement sign?e URL: From jwilliam at xmission.com Sat Jan 20 19:51:40 2007 From: jwilliam at xmission.com (Jerry Williams) Date: Sat, 20 Jan 2007 12:51:40 -0700 Subject: images and isolinux directories Message-ID: <003101c73ccc$66fcffc0$020aa8c0@a18> I have searched and searched and there is a lot of noise on the internet about pieces and parts about the files in theses directories. I have found short how to's on how to change them some. But I have yet to find how and from what they are created in the first place. Normal rpm's have src.rpm's Is there a src.rpm for these? Is there documentation on how to create them? Please point me in the right direction. Thanks! From bruno at wolff.to Sat Jan 20 20:32:56 2007 From: bruno at wolff.to (Bruno Wolff III) Date: Sat, 20 Jan 2007 14:32:56 -0600 Subject: images and isolinux directories In-Reply-To: <003101c73ccc$66fcffc0$020aa8c0@a18> References: <003101c73ccc$66fcffc0$020aa8c0@a18> Message-ID: <20070120203256.GA31341@wolff.to> On Sat, Jan 20, 2007 at 12:51:40 -0700, Jerry Williams wrote: > I have searched and searched and there is a lot of noise on the internet > about pieces and parts about the files in theses directories. > > I have found short how to's on how to change them some. > > But I have yet to find how and from what they are created in the first > place. Take a look at pungi. That is what is going to be used going forward. pungi is in fc6 extras, though it wasn't used for fc6. From dcantrell at redhat.com Sat Jan 20 22:18:18 2007 From: dcantrell at redhat.com (David Cantrell) Date: Sat, 20 Jan 2007 17:18:18 -0500 Subject: Rawhide installable via NFS In-Reply-To: <1169250508.2583.1.camel@scrappy.miketc.com> References: <1169072076.2596.4.camel@scrappy.miketc.com> <1169250508.2583.1.camel@scrappy.miketc.com> Message-ID: <45B2952A.6090305@redhat.com> Mike Chambers wrote: > On Wed, 2007-01-17 at 16:14 -0600, Mike Chambers wrote: >> I keep getting "server can't mount that directory" or something like >> that when I put in the server/dir names. >> >> And if it's not installable that way, can it be done via ftp/http at >> least? >> >> I don't think I've been able to do a rawhide install for a month or two. > > Someone mentioned about if the server/dir was mounted or mountable, and > yes it is. I tried again this morning after a new rawhide push, and > same thing. I can't even do an FTP/HTTP install neither, even from an > outside source. > > This has never happened before except the times I knew it wouldn't due > ot knowing rawhide was busted at the time. I have no clue right now > though. > > So guess am stuck with FC6+ until yum/python is updated. We've had a number of rawhide anaconda issues in the past weeks, but installs via NFS as well as FTP/HTTP *should* work. If they aren't, please file bugs and attach log files so we can fix it up. -- David Cantrell Red Hat / Westford, MA From jkeating at redhat.com Sat Jan 20 23:05:26 2007 From: jkeating at redhat.com (Jesse Keating) Date: Sat, 20 Jan 2007 18:05:26 -0500 Subject: images and isolinux directories In-Reply-To: <003101c73ccc$66fcffc0$020aa8c0@a18> References: <003101c73ccc$66fcffc0$020aa8c0@a18> Message-ID: <200701201805.27039.jkeating@redhat.com> On Saturday 20 January 2007 14:51, Jerry Williams wrote: > But I have yet to find how and from what they are created in the first > place. ? > > Normal rpm's have src.rpm's > > Is there a src.rpm for these? > > Is there documentation on how to create them? They are created by the anaconda-runtime tools during a tree compose. See the mk-images* files in /usr/lib/anaconda-runtime. -- Jesse Keating Release Engineer: Fedora -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 189 bytes Desc: not available URL: From jerone at gmail.com Sat Jan 20 23:47:22 2007 From: jerone at gmail.com (Jerone Young) Date: Sat, 20 Jan 2007 17:47:22 -0600 Subject: Inclusion of Grub 2 in FC7 ? Message-ID: <9f50a7a00701201547t50b2a758ocf77343515fa71e9@mail.gmail.com> I was wondering how everyone felt about the possibility of including Grub 2 in FC7. While it still is in development, it is very much functional and does currently work. This would have the potential to allow unification of boot loaders across all architecture (PPC & EFI Intel boxes come to mind). This may also kick start development on Grub 2, so it's not under development forever. The downfall though is that it does use a new file format & tools would need to be modified to support it. What does everyone else think? For info on grub 2: http://www.gnu.org/software/grub/grub-2-faq.en.html From jwboyer at jdub.homelinux.org Sun Jan 21 02:52:55 2007 From: jwboyer at jdub.homelinux.org (Josh Boyer) Date: Sat, 20 Jan 2007 20:52:55 -0600 Subject: Inclusion of Grub 2 in FC7 ? In-Reply-To: <9f50a7a00701201547t50b2a758ocf77343515fa71e9@mail.gmail.com> References: <9f50a7a00701201547t50b2a758ocf77343515fa71e9@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <1169347975.3159.123.camel@vader.jdub.homelinux.org> On Sat, 2007-01-20 at 17:47 -0600, Jerone Young wrote: > I was wondering how everyone felt about the possibility of including > Grub 2 in FC7. While it still is in development, it is very much > functional and does currently work. This would have the potential to > allow unification of boot loaders across all architecture (PPC & EFI > Intel boxes come to mind). This may also kick start development on > Grub 2, so it's not under development forever. The downfall though is > that it does use a new file format & tools would need to be modified > to support it. What does everyone else think? IMHO, it's entirely too late in the cycle to introduce something like this. Especially for all arches. I'm sure pjones has a much stronger opinion. josh From jerone at gmail.com Sun Jan 21 03:04:47 2007 From: jerone at gmail.com (Jerone Young) Date: Sat, 20 Jan 2007 21:04:47 -0600 Subject: Inclusion of Grub 2 in FC7 ? In-Reply-To: <1169347975.3159.123.camel@vader.jdub.homelinux.org> References: <9f50a7a00701201547t50b2a758ocf77343515fa71e9@mail.gmail.com> <1169347975.3159.123.camel@vader.jdub.homelinux.org> Message-ID: <9f50a7a00701201904v1631647ai5e1f20e370048573@mail.gmail.com> It is a bit late in the cycle, but how about inclusion of the packages in the repository as a secondary method. It could then easily (barring no issues) probably be made the primary method around FC 8 time frame. On 1/20/07, Josh Boyer wrote: > On Sat, 2007-01-20 at 17:47 -0600, Jerone Young wrote: > > I was wondering how everyone felt about the possibility of including > > Grub 2 in FC7. While it still is in development, it is very much > > functional and does currently work. This would have the potential to > > allow unification of boot loaders across all architecture (PPC & EFI > > Intel boxes come to mind). This may also kick start development on > > Grub 2, so it's not under development forever. The downfall though is > > that it does use a new file format & tools would need to be modified > > to support it. What does everyone else think? > > IMHO, it's entirely too late in the cycle to introduce something like > this. Especially for all arches. > > I'm sure pjones has a much stronger opinion. > > josh > > -- > fedora-devel-list mailing list > fedora-devel-list at redhat.com > https://www.redhat.com/mailman/listinfo/fedora-devel-list > From mandreiana.lists at gmail.com Sun Jan 21 06:05:55 2007 From: mandreiana.lists at gmail.com (Marius Andreiana) Date: Sun, 21 Jan 2007 08:05:55 +0200 Subject: status of Build system for merged Core and Extras Message-ID: <1169359555.3691.4.camel@localhost.localdomain> Hi, I did a rawhide install and noticed Core and Extras are still separate. Could this page http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Releases/FeatureNewBuildSystem?highlight=% 28CategoryFedora7Features%29 be updated with current status, including adding tasks which could be taken by community, if any besides testing? Pungi depends on it and this http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Releases/FeatureUsePungi?highlight=% 28CategoryFedora7Features%29 says there will be a pre-test1 release, but with current status and schedule it's hard to see that happen. Thanks, -- Marius Andreiana http://marius.andreiana.googlepages.com From kevin.verma at gmail.com Sun Jan 21 06:35:37 2007 From: kevin.verma at gmail.com (Anuj Verma (Kevin)) Date: Sun, 21 Jan 2007 06:35:37 +0000 (UTC) Subject: Long term PIM solution Message-ID: Hello list, In this email subject mentions "PIM". I consider following types of application to make a true Personal Information Manager: 1. Email, 2. Address books, 3. Calendring, 4. Task Manager, 5. NNTP client 6. Phone/PDA sync apps My focus is GNOME, as KDE is very sound for the same by now. We had seen Mozilla/Firefox engines became a very useful base to various independent web-browser applications. I will like to know some point of views here, to know if Thunderbird can also be useful in the same way as Mozilla/Firefox, for a good long term PIM solution ? What is Fedora project vision to deliver a stable well integrated PIM solution targeted to GNOME environment ? Cheers, Kevin From sdl.web at gmail.com Sun Jan 21 06:49:40 2007 From: sdl.web at gmail.com (Leo) Date: Sun, 21 Jan 2007 06:49:40 +0000 Subject: Long term PIM solution References: Message-ID: On 2007-01-21, Anuj Verma (Kevin) said: > In this email subject mentions "PIM". I consider following types of > application to make a true Personal Information Manager: > 1. Email, > 2. Address books, > 3. Calendring, > 4. Task Manager, > 5. NNTP client > 6. Phone/PDA sync apps > > My focus is GNOME, as KDE is very sound for the same by now. Evolution is supposed to handle all those things. > We had seen Mozilla/Firefox engines became a very useful base to >various independent web-browser applications. > > I will like to know some point of views here, to know if Thunderbird > can also be useful in the same way as Mozilla/Firefox, for a good > long term PIM solution ? Its calendar Sunbird something is not stable yet. -- Leo (GPG Key: 9283AA3F) From kevin.verma at gmail.com Sun Jan 21 07:03:00 2007 From: kevin.verma at gmail.com (Anuj Verma (Kevin)) Date: Sun, 21 Jan 2007 07:03:00 +0000 (UTC) Subject: Long term PIM solution References: Message-ID: On Sun, 21 Jan 2007 06:49:40 +0000, Leo wrote: >> My focus is GNOME, as KDE is very sound for the same by now. > > Evolution is supposed to handle all those things. I am sorry, I did not mention that Evolution to me does not seems to be a long term solution, though I am not sure. But Current state of long pending bug fixes and upstream patch acceptance often talked about makes me think of an alternative to Evolution. From kevin.verma at gmail.com Sun Jan 21 07:05:23 2007 From: kevin.verma at gmail.com (Anuj Verma (Kevin)) Date: Sun, 21 Jan 2007 07:05:23 +0000 (UTC) Subject: Long term PIM solution References: Message-ID: On Sun, 21 Jan 2007 07:03:00 +0000, Anuj Verma (Kevin) wrote: > upstream patch acceptance > often talked about Resistance, to patch acceptance upstream From jwilliam at xmission.com Sun Jan 21 07:15:51 2007 From: jwilliam at xmission.com (Jerry Williams) Date: Sun, 21 Jan 2007 00:15:51 -0700 Subject: diskboot.img Documentation problems Message-ID: <000601c73d2b$fb71b650$020aa8c0@a18> Not sure if this is really the right group to post this to. The docs need more work and maybe some packages need some changes as well. http://fedora.redhat.com/docs/install-guide/fc6/en/sn-preparing-usb-media.ht ml I would suggest changing anaconda-runtime /usr/lib/anaconda-runtime-mk-images.x86 to change the README that goes into /images/README to have a link to the installation guide. The installation guide really isn't correct when it comes to using the diskboot.img file. Should almost include /usr/share/doc/syslinux-3.31/README.usbkey in the installation guide. It might have worked fine for a floppy, but the usb device has a partition table and the image doesn't include the partition table, just a file system. So to use the command dd if=diskboot.img of=/dev/sdd is not correct. WARNING!!! WARNING!!! Be very careful using these commands! You could erase your hard drive! You need to use dmesg to find out what the name of your usb device is. I am using /dev/sdd which might cause problems it that is not your usb device or is your normal hard drive device name. The instructions I have seen look something like: dd if=/dev/zero of=/dev/sdd /usr/lib/syslinux/mkdiskimage -4 /dev/sdd 0 64 32 which creates the /dev/sdd4 partition Then dd if=diskboot.img of=/dev/sdd4 works fine. Or /usr/lib/syslinux/mkdiskimage /dev/sdd 0 64 32 dd if=diskboot.img of=/dev/sdd1 The problem that I see is that if you have a large usb device it can take a long time to write zeros over the whole thing and then format the whole thing just to turn around and write a small file system over it. This is where the small 16MB flash card that came with your camera is a good thing to use in a usb adaptor. :) If all that needs to happen is to wipe out the partition table on the drive then dd if=/dev/zero of=/dev/sdd count=1 works fine. You should look at /usr/share/doc/syslinux-3.31 to help figure out the numbers for mkdiskimage if you have a large usb flash drive. /usr/lib/syslinux/mkdiskimage /dev/sdd 13 64 32 is much quicker and has enough room for diskboot.img image. But may not work on all devices. I had problems with a 1GB device. From sdl.web at gmail.com Sun Jan 21 07:23:56 2007 From: sdl.web at gmail.com (Leo) Date: Sun, 21 Jan 2007 07:23:56 +0000 Subject: Long term PIM solution References: Message-ID: On 2007-01-21, Anuj Verma (Kevin) said: > On Sun, 21 Jan 2007 06:49:40 +0000, Leo wrote: > >>> My focus is GNOME, as KDE is very sound for the same by now. >> >> Evolution is supposed to handle all those things. > > I am sorry, I did not mention that Evolution to me does not seems to > be a long term solution, though I am not sure. A pity but that is Evolution. > But Current state of long pending bug fixes and upstream patch > acceptance often talked about makes me think of an alternative to > Evolution. Thunderbird combined with extensions? and Sunbird could be a solution. Footnotes: ? https://addons.mozilla.org/extensions.php?app=thunderbird -- Leo (GPG Key: 9283AA3F) From kevin.verma at gmail.com Sun Jan 21 07:32:29 2007 From: kevin.verma at gmail.com (Anuj Verma (Kevin)) Date: Sun, 21 Jan 2007 07:32:29 +0000 (UTC) Subject: Long term PIM solution References: Message-ID: On Sun, 21 Jan 2007 07:23:56 +0000, Leo wrote: > A pity but that is Evolution. Even if we consider Evolution for a long term PIM solution, how well is Phone/PDA sync & NNTP client coming along in sight ? I understand that is negligible for Thunderbird as of now. Considering Gnome-Pilot, it does not support non-Palm devices and seamless Bluetooth & IR integration also becomes blockers. Notably there had been significant improvements over the time, but this is just to point out. From buildsys at redhat.com Sun Jan 21 11:32:11 2007 From: buildsys at redhat.com (buildsys at redhat.com) Date: Sun, 21 Jan 2007 06:32:11 -0500 Subject: rawhide report: 20070121 changes Message-ID: <200701211132.l0LBWBgD007512@hs20-bc2-6.build.redhat.com> Updated Packages: cairo-1.3.12-1.fc7 ------------------ * Sat Jan 20 2007 Carl Worth 1.3.12-1 - Update to 1.3.12 esound-1:0.2.36-4.fc7 --------------------- * Sat Jan 20 2007 Matthias Clasen - 1:0.2.36-4 - Split a -libs package off the core esound package in preparation for pulseaudio (#223503) - Correct the License tag gaim-2:2.0.0-0.30.beta6.fc7 --------------------------- * Sat Jan 20 2007 Warren Togami - 2:2.0.0-0.30.beta6 - 2.0.0 beta6 gdb-6.6-1.fc7 ------------- * Sat Jan 20 2007 Jan Kratochvil - 6.6-1 - Upgrade to GDB 6.6. Drop redundant patches, forward-port remaining ones. - Backported post gdb-6.6 release ia64 unwinding fixups. - Testcase for exec() from threaded program (BZ 202689). * Mon Jan 15 2007 Jan Kratochvil - 6.5-27 - Fix the testsuite results broken in 6.5-26, stop invalid testsuite runs. * Sat Jan 13 2007 Jan Kratochvil - 6.5-26 - Fix unwinding of non-debug (.eh_frame) PPC code, Andreas Schwab (BZ 140532). - Fix unwinding of debug (.debug_frame) PPC code, workaround GCC (BZ 140532). - Fix missing testsuite .log output of testcases using get_compiler_info(). gnome-python2-extras-2.14.2-8.fc7 --------------------------------- * Sat Jan 20 2007 Matthew Barnes - 2.14.2-8.fc7 - Add missing BuildRequires gnome-python2-devel (RH bug #223602). gnome-speech-0.4.8-1.fc7 ------------------------ * Sat Jan 20 2007 Matthias Clasen - 0.4.8-1 - Update to 0.4.8 gnome-themes-2.17.5-3.fc7 ------------------------- * Sat Jan 20 2007 Matthias Clasen - 2.17.5-3 - Re-add the Clearlooks icon theme libgnomeui-2.17.1-2.fc7 ----------------------- * Sat Jan 20 2007 Matthias Clasen - 2.17.1-2 - Drop explicit esound requirement in preparation for pulseaudio - Clean up requires Broken deps for s390 ---------------------------------------------------------- systemtap - 0.5.10-1.fc7.s390 requires kernel >= 0:2.6.9-11 systemtap-runtime - 0.5.10-1.fc7.s390 requires kernel >= 0:2.6.9-11 From kevin.verma at gmail.com Sun Jan 21 12:45:08 2007 From: kevin.verma at gmail.com (Anuj Verma (Kevin)) Date: Sun, 21 Jan 2007 12:45:08 +0000 (UTC) Subject: Long term PIM solution References: Message-ID: On Sun, 21 Jan 2007 07:32:29 +0000, Anuj Verma (Kevin) wrote: > Even if we consider Evolution for a long term PIM solution, how well is > Phone/PDA sync & NNTP client coming along in sight ? > > I understand that is negligible for Thunderbird as of now. > > Considering Gnome-Pilot, it does not support non-Palm devices and seamless > Bluetooth & IR integration also becomes blockers. > > Notably there had been significant improvements over the time, but this is > just to point out. I looked back into Sync applications a bit, Multisync had been there for a while, that provides sync plugins for: Evolution, IrMc, WinCE/PocketPC, Palm etc. refer- http://multisync.sourceforge.net/news.php Mutlisync transformed into Opensync in mid of 2006, but seems to have a stalled development as of now. In the world of devices like (d)i(e)pods, multifunction Phones/PDAs etc. such an application should be of high interest for not just Fedora but any Linux distribution. I hope the present plugins are working well as expected ? I'll love to test some myself soon. Any ideas ? From vnpenguin at vnoss.org Sun Jan 21 13:56:32 2007 From: vnpenguin at vnoss.org (Vnpenguin) Date: Sun, 21 Jan 2007 14:56:32 +0100 Subject: Rawhide: kernel panic 2.6.19-1.2912.fc7 in VMware Message-ID: Hi, I use VMplayer to run FC6 guest OS on Windows XP. Yesterday, I upgraded FC6 to FC7 (rawhide). Upgrading process is ok , but now I can't boot with kernel 2.6.19-1.2912.fc7: ... sda: assuming drive cache: write through sda: sda1 sda2 sd 0:0:0:0 Attached scsi disk sda Unable to access resume device (LABEL=SWAP-sda2) mount: could not find filesystem '/dev/root' setuproot: moving /dev failed: No such file or directory setuproot: error mounting /proc: No such file or directory setuproot: error mounting /sys: No such file or directory switchroot: mount failed: No such file or directory Kernel panic - not syncing: Attempted to kill init! I can boot without any problem with FC6 latest updated kernel. Anyone has ideas to fix it ? Thank you, -- http://vnoss.org From dimitris at glezos.com Sun Jan 21 15:54:06 2007 From: dimitris at glezos.com (Dimitris Glezos) Date: Sun, 21 Jan 2007 15:54:06 +0000 Subject: Long term PIM solution In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <45B38C9E.8070402@glezos.com> O/H Anuj Verma (Kevin) ??????: > Hello list, > > In this email subject mentions "PIM". I consider following types of > application to make a true Personal Information Manager: > 1. Email, > 2. Address books, > 3. Calendring, > 4. Task Manager, > 5. NNTP client > 6. Phone/PDA sync apps > > My focus is GNOME, as KDE is very sound for the same by now. > > We had seen Mozilla/Firefox engines became a very useful base to various > independent web-browser applications. > > I will like to know some point of views here, to know if Thunderbird can > also be useful in the same way as Mozilla/Firefox, for a good long term > PIM solution ? You may want to check on Chandler, from the OSAF foundation. Their website mentions everything, so I'll just refer you there: http://chandler.osafoundation.org/ Of course it's still in an early stage of it's development, but it's foundations (semantic web and other research stuff that interest at least me) are very promising. -d -- Dimitris Glezos Jabber ID: glezos at jabber.org, GPG: 0xA5A04C3B http://dimitris.glezos.com/ "He who gives up functionality for ease of use loses both and deserves neither." (Anonymous) -- From mpknoop at gmail.com Sun Jan 21 16:13:37 2007 From: mpknoop at gmail.com (Mark Knoop) Date: Sun, 21 Jan 2007 16:13:37 +0000 Subject: Long term PIM solution In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <42420bfb0701210813w3e42c4f0l4b9bfc90de636fc1@mail.gmail.com> On 21/01/07, Anuj Verma (Kevin) wrote: > On Sun, 21 Jan 2007 07:32:29 +0000, Anuj Verma (Kevin) wrote: > > > Even if we consider Evolution for a long term PIM solution, how well is > > Phone/PDA sync & NNTP client coming along in sight ? > > > > I understand that is negligible for Thunderbird as of now. > > > > Considering Gnome-Pilot, it does not support non-Palm devices and seamless > > Bluetooth & IR integration also becomes blockers. > > > > Notably there had been significant improvements over the time, but this is > > just to point out. > > I looked back into Sync applications a bit, Multisync had been there for a > while, that provides sync plugins for: Evolution, IrMc, WinCE/PocketPC, > Palm etc. refer- http://multisync.sourceforge.net/news.php > > Mutlisync transformed into Opensync in mid of 2006, but seems to have a > stalled development as of now. Opensync is still alive (http://www.opensync.org/) and supports syncing evolution with various others including palm, synce, irmc, etc. -- Mark Knoop From kloczek at zie.pg.gda.pl Sun Jan 21 16:59:46 2007 From: kloczek at zie.pg.gda.pl (Tomasz =?UTF-8?Q?K=C5=82oczko?=) Date: Sun, 21 Jan 2007 17:59:46 +0100 Subject: vte (Re: rawhide report: 20070119 changes) In-Reply-To: <200701190812.l0J8CG9V019432@hs20-bc2-6.build.redhat.com> References: <200701190812.l0J8CG9V019432@hs20-bc2-6.build.redhat.com> Message-ID: <1169398786.5753.50.camel@kloczek01.pracownicy.zie> Dnia 19-01-2007, pi? o godzinie 03:12 -0500, buildsys at redhat.com napisa?(a): [..] > dump-0.4b41-3.fc7 > ----------------- > * Thu Jan 18 2007 Adam Tkac 0.4b41-3.fc7 > - dump is now linked dynamically > - removed termcap dependency BTW all good changes like removing all libtermcap dependencies I want inform about some interesting from this point of view package like vte. This package have indirect dependencies with /etc/termcap. vte package provides library with terminal widget but .. contains much more bloated code like internal /etc/termcap parser which is used indepednedntly from is libvte was linked with libtermcap or libncurses. All application which uses libvte in envireoment without /etc/termcap or own termcap copy from %{_datadir}/vte/termcap/ simple crashes. Test case: # vm /etc/termcap{,-} # mv /usr/share/vte/termcap{,-} $ gnome-terminal Interesting but on run on stdout is writed information about three times initialise GTK Accessibility Module and Bonobo accessibility support (?). IMO vte and gnome-terminal they are most broken (by design) parts of GNOME desktop. For facts for above: $ ldd /usr/bin/gnome-terminal | wc -l 79 $ ls -l /usr/lib/libvte.so.9.1.8 -rwxr-xr-x 1 root root 747376 Jan 10 20:22 /usr/lib/libvte.so.9.1.8 libvte have ~740KB and this is only library and for compare .. xterm which is complet application have ~390KB binary size. On each keyboard action is touched /proc//cwd. Also package vte installs many small programs and scripts which IMO are completly useless and all this additions in src/Makefile.am source tree can be moved to noinst_PROGRAMS. On my desktop system gnome-terminal runed with --use-factory for display 15-20 terminals with 135x60 geometry with 5k lines history in peak can take ~200MB private heap (don't ask me for what :) kloczek From kloczek at zie.pg.gda.pl Sun Jan 21 17:18:28 2007 From: kloczek at zie.pg.gda.pl (Tomasz =?UTF-8?Q?K=C5=82oczko?=) Date: Sun, 21 Jan 2007 18:18:28 +0100 Subject: rawhide report: 20070121 changes In-Reply-To: <200701211132.l0LBWBgD007512@hs20-bc2-6.build.redhat.com> References: <200701211132.l0LBWBgD007512@hs20-bc2-6.build.redhat.com> Message-ID: <1169399908.5753.54.camel@kloczek01.pracownicy.zie> Dnia 21-01-2007, nie o godzinie 06:32 -0500, buildsys at redhat.com napisa?(a): > gdb-6.6-1.fc7 > ------------- > * Sat Jan 20 2007 Jan Kratochvil - 6.6-1 > - Upgrade to GDB 6.6. Drop redundant patches, forward-port remaining > ones. > - Backported post gdb-6.6 release ia64 unwinding fixups. > - Testcase for exec() from threaded program (BZ 202689). > > * Mon Jan 15 2007 Jan Kratochvil - 6.5-27 > - Fix the testsuite results broken in 6.5-26, stop invalid testsuite > runs. > > * Sat Jan 13 2007 Jan Kratochvil - 6.5-26 > - Fix unwinding of non-debug (.eh_frame) PPC code, Andreas Schwab (BZ > 140532). > - Fix unwinding of debug (.debug_frame) PPC code, workaround GCC (BZ > 140532). > - Fix missing testsuite .log output of testcases using > get_compiler_info(). I have one question about FC gdb: why *so many* patches are not integrated with current gdb source tree ? IIRC gdb source tree is maintained by RH developer. kloczek From kloczek at zie.pg.gda.pl Sun Jan 21 17:34:49 2007 From: kloczek at zie.pg.gda.pl (Tomasz =?UTF-8?Q?K=C5=82oczko?=) Date: Sun, 21 Jan 2007 18:34:49 +0100 Subject: rawhide report: 20070119 changes In-Reply-To: <200701190812.l0J8CG9V019432@hs20-bc2-6.build.redhat.com> References: <200701190812.l0J8CG9V019432@hs20-bc2-6.build.redhat.com> Message-ID: <1169400889.5191.5.camel@kloczek01.pracownicy.zie> Dnia 19-01-2007, pi? o godzinie 03:12 -0500, buildsys at redhat.com napisa?(a): > xterm-223-2.fc7 > --------------- > * Thu Jan 18 2007 Miroslav Lichvar 223-2 > - make xterm binary sgid utempter (#222847) > - fix font size changes with -fa option (#222340) > - fix redrawing of internal border (#223027) > - enable metaSendsEscape resource and set modifyFunctionKeys to 0 by > default Moment .. if xterm realy uses libutempter why xterm binary must be sgid utempter ? kloczek From jfrieben at gmx.de Sun Jan 21 17:48:49 2007 From: jfrieben at gmx.de (Joachim Frieben) Date: Sun, 21 Jan 2007 18:48:49 +0100 Subject: Rawhide: kernel panic 2.6.19-1.2912.fc7 in VMware In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <20070121174849.21500@gmx.net> > Hi, > I use VMplayer to run FC6 guest OS on Windows XP. Yesterday, I > upgraded FC6 to FC7 (rawhide). Upgrading process is ok , but now I > can't boot with kernel 2.6.19-1.2912.fc7: Make sure you have updated to the latest "mkinitrd". Then reinstall the "2.6.19" kernel in order to create a valid "initrd" image. This has done the job for me. -- Der GMX SmartSurfer hilft bis zu 70% Ihrer Onlinekosten zu sparen! Ideal f?r Modem und ISDN: http://www.gmx.net/de/go/smartsurfer From mlichvar at redhat.com Sun Jan 21 18:11:59 2007 From: mlichvar at redhat.com (Miroslav Lichvar) Date: Sun, 21 Jan 2007 19:11:59 +0100 Subject: rawhide report: 20070119 changes In-Reply-To: <1169400889.5191.5.camel@kloczek01.pracownicy.zie> References: <200701190812.l0J8CG9V019432@hs20-bc2-6.build.redhat.com> <1169400889.5191.5.camel@kloczek01.pracownicy.zie> Message-ID: <20070121181159.GC26652@localhost> On Sun, Jan 21, 2007 at 06:34:49PM +0100, Tomasz K?oczko wrote: > Dnia 19-01-2007, pi? o godzinie 03:12 -0500, buildsys at redhat.com > napisa?(a): > > xterm-223-2.fc7 > > --------------- > > * Thu Jan 18 2007 Miroslav Lichvar 223-2 > > - make xterm binary sgid utempter (#222847) > > - fix font size changes with -fa option (#222340) > > - fix redrawing of internal border (#223027) > > - enable metaSendsEscape resource and set modifyFunctionKeys to 0 by > > default > > Moment .. if xterm realy uses libutempter why xterm binary must be sgid > utempter ? # ls -la /usr/libexec/utempter total 28 drwx--x--- 2 root utempter 4096 Jan 13 04:05 . drwxr-xr-x 10 root root 4096 Jan 20 04:03 .. -rwx--s--x 1 root utmp 9952 Jul 27 22:25 utempter The idea is, if I understand it correctly, that only selected programs can execute the binary and modify utmp. -- Miroslav Lichvar From jan.kratochvil at redhat.com Sun Jan 21 20:41:54 2007 From: jan.kratochvil at redhat.com (Jan Kratochvil) Date: Sun, 21 Jan 2007 21:41:54 +0100 Subject: rawhide report: 20070121 changes In-Reply-To: <1169399908.5753.54.camel@kloczek01.pracownicy.zie> References: <200701211132.l0LBWBgD007512@hs20-bc2-6.build.redhat.com> <1169399908.5753.54.camel@kloczek01.pracownicy.zie> Message-ID: <20070121204153.GA31640@host0.dyn.jankratochvil.net> On Sun, 21 Jan 2007 18:18:28 +0100, Tomasz K?oczko wrote: > Dnia 21-01-2007, nie o godzinie 06:32 -0500, buildsys at redhat.com > napisa?(a): > > gdb-6.6-1.fc7 > > ------------- > > * Sat Jan 20 2007 Jan Kratochvil - 6.6-1 > > - Upgrade to GDB 6.6. Drop redundant patches, forward-port remaining > > ones. ... > I have one question about FC gdb: why *so many* patches are not > integrated with current gdb source tree ? There are other packages with many more vendor patches. I try to be upstream cooperative but it is not easy. Some of the patches are useful only for binary enhancements introduced by Red Hat (so far was Jakub Jelinek's GNU_HASH, now still at least PIE security is pending, Jakub Jelinek's prelink(8), Alexander Larsson for separate .debug etc.). Also be aware that some of the patches still in current gdb-6.6-1 were already accepted but for gdb-6.7. Or they are still being discussed. The upstream acceptance process is a longterm task. Many times some patch did not went through (the PPC patches series) and due to dependencies on each other they no longer make sense upstream. And while you try there sometimes is just no agreement upstream and it is too time costly to continue the discussions. There are still more BZ Bugs waiting. > IIRC gdb source tree is maintained by RH developer. The current primary upstream maintainer Daniel Jacobowitz is from CodeSourcery (no own distro) and well ... Debian. Regards, Jan From michel.salim at gmail.com Sun Jan 21 21:40:48 2007 From: michel.salim at gmail.com (Michel Salim) Date: Sun, 21 Jan 2007 16:40:48 -0500 Subject: expat 2.0 ? Message-ID: <883cfe6d0701211340v2f0a37bbm9e01eab87ca96459@mail.gmail.com> Hi, I noticed when trying out the pre-built binaries for Chandler that Fedora still ships expat-1.95.8, while 2.0.0 has been out since January 2006. Is there a reason for this? I could not find any mention of this in the mailing list archive, but I apologise if this has been discussed before. On a slightly unrelated note, FLAC has also not been updated (bz #222946) Regards, -- Michel Salim http://hircus.wordpress.com/ My theology, briefly, is that the universe was dictated but not signed. -- Christopher Morley From michel.salim at gmail.com Sun Jan 21 22:36:20 2007 From: michel.salim at gmail.com (Michel Salim) Date: Sun, 21 Jan 2007 17:36:20 -0500 Subject: expat 2.0 ? In-Reply-To: <883cfe6d0701211340v2f0a37bbm9e01eab87ca96459@mail.gmail.com> References: <883cfe6d0701211340v2f0a37bbm9e01eab87ca96459@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <883cfe6d0701211436r716d24c8s6c748f7124dc10a9@mail.gmail.com> f-spot also needs to be updated (bz #218579). Is there a meta-bug that we could make update requests block? 2007/1/21, Michel Salim : > Hi, > > I noticed when trying out the pre-built binaries for Chandler that > Fedora still ships expat-1.95.8, while 2.0.0 has been out since > January 2006. Is there a reason for this? I could not find any mention > of this in the mailing list archive, but I apologise if this has been > discussed before. > > On a slightly unrelated note, FLAC has also not been updated (bz #222946) > > Regards, > > -- > Michel Salim > http://hircus.wordpress.com/ > > My theology, briefly, is that the universe was dictated but not signed. > -- Christopher Morley > -- Michel Salim http://hircus.wordpress.com/ My theology, briefly, is that the universe was dictated but not signed. -- Christopher Morley From jwilliam at xmission.com Sun Jan 21 23:58:33 2007 From: jwilliam at xmission.com (Jerry Williams) Date: Sun, 21 Jan 2007 16:58:33 -0700 Subject: diskboot.img Documentation problems In-Reply-To: <000601c73d2b$fb71b650$020aa8c0@a18> References: <000601c73d2b$fb71b650$020aa8c0@a18> Message-ID: <003001c73db8$0ec24d00$020aa8c0@a18> > -----Original Message----- > From: fedora-devel-list-bounces at redhat.com [mailto:fedora-devel-list- > bounces at redhat.com] On Behalf Of Jerry Williams > Sent: Sunday, January 21, 2007 12:16 AM > To: Fedora Developent > Subject: diskboot.img Documentation problems > > Not sure if this is really the right group to post this to. > > The docs need more work and maybe some packages need some changes as well. > > http://fedora.redhat.com/docs/install-guide/fc6/en/sn-preparing-usb- > media.ht > ml > > I would suggest changing anaconda-runtime > /usr/lib/anaconda-runtime-mk-images.x86 to change the README that goes > into > /images/README to have a link to the installation guide. > > The installation guide really isn't correct when it comes to using the > diskboot.img file. Should almost include > /usr/share/doc/syslinux-3.31/README.usbkey in the installation guide. > > It might have worked fine for a floppy, but the usb device has a partition > table and the image doesn't include the partition table, just a file > system. > > So to use the command dd if=diskboot.img of=/dev/sdd is not correct. Turns out that this does work on newer machines. fdisk -l /dev/sdd looks really funny, but it works just fine. Thanks for the fix that just happened to the kernel (new diskboot.img) my machine will now boot and load the menu for the install. So not sure what to say about USB flash drives, depends on your machine. I have one that works one way and another machine another. But in either case I can't load the rescue image, anaconda has a problem with being loaded from NFS when booting with a USB flash drive. > WARNING!!! WARNING!!! Be very careful using these commands! > You could erase your hard drive! > You need to use dmesg to find out what the name of your usb device is. > I am using /dev/sdd which might cause problems it that is not your usb > device or is your normal hard drive device name. > > The instructions I have seen look something like: > dd if=/dev/zero of=/dev/sdd > /usr/lib/syslinux/mkdiskimage -4 /dev/sdd 0 64 32 > which creates the /dev/sdd4 partition > Then dd if=diskboot.img of=/dev/sdd4 works fine. > Or > /usr/lib/syslinux/mkdiskimage /dev/sdd 0 64 32 > dd if=diskboot.img of=/dev/sdd1 > > The problem that I see is that if you have a large usb device it can take > a > long time to write zeros over the whole thing and then format the whole > thing just to turn around and write a small file system over it. > > This is where the small 16MB flash card that came with your camera is a > good > thing to use in a usb adaptor. :) > > If all that needs to happen is to wipe out the partition table on the > drive > then dd if=/dev/zero of=/dev/sdd count=1 works fine. > You should look at /usr/share/doc/syslinux-3.31 to help figure out the > numbers for mkdiskimage if you have a large usb flash drive. > > /usr/lib/syslinux/mkdiskimage /dev/sdd 13 64 32 is much quicker and has > enough room for diskboot.img image. But may not work on all devices. > I had problems with a 1GB device. > > > -- > fedora-devel-list mailing list > fedora-devel-list at redhat.com > https://www.redhat.com/mailman/listinfo/fedora-devel-list From giallu at gmail.com Sun Jan 21 23:52:30 2007 From: giallu at gmail.com (Gianluca Sforna) Date: Mon, 22 Jan 2007 00:52:30 +0100 Subject: Long term PIM solution In-Reply-To: <45B38C9E.8070402@glezos.com> References: <45B38C9E.8070402@glezos.com> Message-ID: On 1/21/07, Dimitris Glezos wrote: > > You may want to check on Chandler, from the OSAF foundation. Their website > mentions everything, so I'll just refer you there: > > http://chandler.osafoundation.org/ > > Of course it's still in an early stage of it's development, but it's foundations > (semantic web and other research stuff that interest at least me) are very > promising. Early stage since 4 years... so I won't hold my breath for that (but still hope they will deliver one day) http://www.joelonsoftware.com/items/2007/01/02.html From kevin.kofler at chello.at Mon Jan 22 00:59:03 2007 From: kevin.kofler at chello.at (Kevin Kofler) Date: Mon, 22 Jan 2007 00:59:03 +0000 (UTC) Subject: dkms for fc7? References: <20070119153556.7bf08b28@python3.es.egwn.lan> <45B0D8C9.8000409@poolshark.org> <39566.192.54.193.51.1169219604.squirrel@rousalka.dyndns.org> Message-ID: Nicolas Mailhot laposte.net> writes: > Out-of-tree driver writer 1 will say "I only support 2.6.x proper" > Out-of-tree driver writer 2 will say "I only support up to 2.6.x-rcy" > davej will say "I'll ship 2.6.x.3 in because previous releases are missing > a critical fix and that matches the Fedora release schedule" Then you patch the modules. :-) Even the evil binary drivers usually have some glue code with source which you can patch to at least work around the problem. Good places to look for patches are usually: * upstream message boards or mailing lists * upstream version control (CVS/SVN/GIT/...) * downstream (distro, ...) mailing lists (try a search engine) Failing that, try to figure out what the change was (e.g. by searching for the missing identifier with a search engine) and patch the module accordingly, then try to share the patch with other people. Here's an example: http://www.redhat.com/archives/fedora-test-list/2007-January/msg00175.html In this case, I've just taken the patches from the rt2570 CVS at the rt2x00 project and ported them to Ralink's latest official driver release. Kevin Kofler From kevin.kofler at chello.at Mon Jan 22 01:07:04 2007 From: kevin.kofler at chello.at (Kevin Kofler) Date: Mon, 22 Jan 2007 01:07:04 +0000 (UTC) Subject: Fedora 7 encrypted root partition References: <1169231451.11652.5.camel@hughsie-laptop> <1169236206.3157.5.camel@aglarond.local> Message-ID: Jeremy Katz redhat.com> writes: > The problem with doing this is that there really isn't any way to sanely > prompt a user in their native language and allowing for their native > keymap for a password prior to mounting the rootfs (and potentially > more). Well, I think understanding "password:" is not a big problem in most countries. ;-) As for the keymap, if you only allow alphanumeric characters (no brackets, asterisk or whatever), the US keymap won't be that big of a problem. I know where the numbers and letters on the US keyboard are (same as on my German one except that Y and Z are swapped), and I think most computer-savvy people here in Austria know that too. And in many countries (especially those with a non-Latin alphabet, e.g. Greece, but also several Asian countries, I believe), the Latin letters use the same layout as in the US. I think the importance of NLS is often overrated. Kevin Kofler From bernie at develer.com Mon Jan 22 06:21:22 2007 From: bernie at develer.com (Bernardo Innocenti) Date: Mon, 22 Jan 2007 07:21:22 +0100 Subject: rawhide report: 20070120 changes In-Reply-To: <200701201127.l0KBRwLc007330@hs20-bc2-6.build.redhat.com> References: <200701201127.l0KBRwLc007330@hs20-bc2-6.build.redhat.com> Message-ID: <200701220721.23081.bernie@develer.com> On Saturday 20 January 2007 12:27, buildsys at redhat.com wrote: > pam-0.99.7.0-1.fc7 > ------------------ > * Fri Jan 19 2007 Tomas Mraz 0.99.7.0-1 > - upgrade to new upstream version > - drop pam_stack module as it is obsolete > - some changes to silence rpmlint Is it just me or after this update anybody and his dog can login without typing a valid password in any account? See: bernie at bender:~$ su - openwrt Password: openwrt at bender:~$ openwrt at bender:~$ logout openwrt at bender:~$ logout bender:/etc/pam.d# grep openwrt /etc/passwd /etc/shadow /etc/passwd:openwrt:x:501:501:openwrt compiler:/usr/local/src/openwrt:/bin/bash /etc/shadow:openwrt:!!:13529:::::: I've installed this update yesterday in the evening and today there were already rootkits and irc bots everywhere :) My /etc/pam.d/system-auth looks sane to me: ---cut--- auth required pam_env.so auth sufficient pam_unix.so try_first_pass auth requisite pam_succeed_if.so uid >= 500 quiet auth required pam_deny.so account required pam_unix.so account sufficient pam_localuser.so account sufficient pam_succeed_if.so uid < 500 quiet account required pam_permit.so password requisite pam_cracklib.so try_first_pass retry=3 password sufficient pam_unix.so md5 shadow try_first_pass use_authtok password required pam_deny.so session optional pam_keyinit.so revoke session required pam_limits.so session [success=1 default=ignore] pam_succeed_if.so service in crond quiet use_uid session required pam_unix.so ---cut--- -- // Bernardo Innocenti \X/ bernie at codewiz.org From giallu at gmail.com Mon Jan 22 07:45:20 2007 From: giallu at gmail.com (Gianluca Sforna) Date: Mon, 22 Jan 2007 08:45:20 +0100 Subject: Fedora 7 encrypted root partition In-Reply-To: References: <1169231451.11652.5.camel@hughsie-laptop> <1169236206.3157.5.camel@aglarond.local> Message-ID: On 1/22/07, Kevin Kofler wrote: > Jeremy Katz redhat.com> writes: > > The problem with doing this is that there really isn't any way to sanely > > prompt a user in their native language and allowing for their native > > keymap for a password prior to mounting the rootfs (and potentially > > more). > > Well, I think understanding "password:" is not a big problem in most > countries. ;-) As for the keymap, if you only allow alphanumeric characters (no > brackets, asterisk or whatever), the US keymap won't be that big of a problem. Have you ever seen a french KB? > I know where the numbers and letters on the US keyboard are (same as on my > German one except that Y and Z are swapped), and I think most computer-savvy > people here in Austria know that too. So it could be good IF we were targetting computer-savvy people exclusively > I think the importance of NLS is often overrated. Possibly, but here we are talking about the risk of being locked out from your own system. Things are to be bulletproof in this area or we are not going to have good press coverage... On a side note: why on earth should we care about encrypting stuff outside /home ? From bruno at wolff.to Mon Jan 22 08:22:18 2007 From: bruno at wolff.to (Bruno Wolff III) Date: Mon, 22 Jan 2007 02:22:18 -0600 Subject: Fedora 7 encrypted root partition In-Reply-To: References: <1169231451.11652.5.camel@hughsie-laptop> <1169236206.3157.5.camel@aglarond.local> Message-ID: <20070122082218.GA5094@wolff.to> On Mon, Jan 22, 2007 at 08:45:20 +0100, > On a side note: why on earth should we care about encrypting stuff > outside /home ? > Log files in /var, scratch files in /tmp, swap, software installed in /usr/local or /usr that is illegal (such as most of Livna in the U.S.). From nicolas.mailhot at laposte.net Mon Jan 22 09:47:35 2007 From: nicolas.mailhot at laposte.net (Nicolas Mailhot) Date: Mon, 22 Jan 2007 10:47:35 +0100 (CET) Subject: dkms for fc7? In-Reply-To: References: <20070119153556.7bf08b28@python3.es.egwn.lan> <45B0D8C9.8000409@poolshark.org> <39566.192.54.193.51.1169219604.squirrel@rousalka.dyndns.org> Message-ID: <50604.192.54.193.51.1169459255.squirrel@rousalka.dyndns.org> Le Lun 22 janvier 2007 01:59, Kevin Kofler a ?crit : > Nicolas Mailhot laposte.net> writes: >> Out-of-tree driver writer 1 will say "I only support 2.6.x proper" >> Out-of-tree driver writer 2 will say "I only support up to 2.6.x-rcy" >> davej will say "I'll ship 2.6.x.3 in because previous releases are >> missing >> a critical fix and that matches the Fedora release schedule" > > Then you patch the modules. :-) Then you're back to square one, except you don't have your pool of users pushing for in-kernel merge anymore -- Nicolas Mailhot From buildsys at redhat.com Mon Jan 22 11:24:27 2007 From: buildsys at redhat.com (buildsys at redhat.com) Date: Mon, 22 Jan 2007 06:24:27 -0500 Subject: rawhide report: 20070122 changes Message-ID: <200701221124.l0MBOREI020990@hs20-bc2-6.build.redhat.com> Updated Packages: bison-2.3-3.fc7 --------------- * Sun Jan 21 2007 Roland McGrath - 2.3-3 - Canonicalize post/preun use of install-info. - Resolves: 223679 cpio-2.6-23.fc7 --------------- * Mon Jan 22 2007 Peter Vrabec 2.6-23 - fix non-failsafe install-info use in scriptlets (#223682) emacspeak-25-1.fc7 ------------------ * Mon Jan 22 2007 Jens Petersen - 25-1 - update to version 25 - update emacspeak-tcl-pkgreq-tclx.patch - protect install-info in %post and %preun (Ville Skytt??, #223685) gettext-0.16.1-3.fc7 -------------------- * Mon Jan 22 2007 Jens Petersen - 0.16.1-3 - protect install-info in %post and %preun (Ville Skytt??, #223689) gnome-desktop-2.17.90-1.fc7 --------------------------- * Sun Jan 21 2007 Matthias Clasen - 2.17.90-1 - Update to 2.17.90 - Drop some long-obsolete images - Clean up BuildRequires gnome-panel-2.17.90-1.fc7 ------------------------- * Mon Jan 22 2007 Matthias Clasen - 2.17.90-1 - Update to 2.17.90 - Clean up BuildRequires - Allow user switching from the logout dialog gnome-session-2.17.90-1.fc7 --------------------------- * Sun Jan 21 2007 Matthias Clasen - 2.17.90-1 - Update to 2.17.90 - Clean up BuildRequires ncurses-5.6-2.20070120.fc7 -------------------------- * Sun Jan 21 2007 Miroslav Lichvar 5.6-2.20070120 - update to patch 20070120 - don't depend on bash, drop resetall script - include rxvt-unicode description tar-2:1.15.1-25.fc7 ------------------- * Wed Jan 03 2007 Peter Vrabec 2:1.15.1-25 - fix non-failsafe install-info use in scriptlets (#223718) Broken deps for i386 ---------------------------------------------------------- emacspeak - 25-1.fc7.noarch requires /usr/bin/tcl Broken deps for ppc64 ---------------------------------------------------------- emacspeak - 25-1.fc7.noarch requires /usr/bin/tcl Broken deps for x86_64 ---------------------------------------------------------- emacspeak - 25-1.fc7.noarch requires /usr/bin/tcl Broken deps for ia64 ---------------------------------------------------------- emacspeak - 25-1.fc7.noarch requires /usr/bin/tcl Broken deps for s390 ---------------------------------------------------------- emacspeak - 25-1.fc7.noarch requires /usr/bin/tcl systemtap - 0.5.10-1.fc7.s390 requires kernel >= 0:2.6.9-11 systemtap-runtime - 0.5.10-1.fc7.s390 requires kernel >= 0:2.6.9-11 Broken deps for ppc ---------------------------------------------------------- emacspeak - 25-1.fc7.noarch requires /usr/bin/tcl Broken deps for s390x ---------------------------------------------------------- emacspeak - 25-1.fc7.noarch requires /usr/bin/tcl From fedora at leemhuis.info Mon Jan 22 12:51:34 2007 From: fedora at leemhuis.info (Thorsten Leemhuis) Date: Mon, 22 Jan 2007 13:51:34 +0100 Subject: dkms for fc7? In-Reply-To: <20070119153556.7bf08b28@python3.es.egwn.lan> References: <20070119153556.7bf08b28@python3.es.egwn.lan> Message-ID: <45B4B356.3000108@leemhuis.info> Matthias Saou schrieb: > Neal Becker wrote : >> I know there was some discussion about dkms for fedora. It seemed (to me) >> mostly positive. Well, nobody ever proposed a "this is a detailed proposal how we could use dkms for packaging kernel modules in Fedora that works like this with our exisiting tools (yum, plague)". That would be a first step someone would need to do afaics. Doing it now is much to late for F7 afaics. And, btw, there is a lot of reluctance in general against packaging kernel-modules in Fedora. Many people don't want them at all. I more and more think we should have a separate repo for stuff like that *under* the hood of the fedora-project and not enabled by default. >> Is there interest in pushing this forward for fc7? > [...] > 2) Fedora seems to be more interested in working on a long term > solution for kernel modules, The real long term solution IMHO can only be: get all kernel modules into the upstream kernel. ;-) We IMHO should cooperate with at least Opensuse and Ubuntu to put more pressure on the driver developers by not including them in our main distro; that might convince them to submit their stuff upstream . But that afaics would be a really hard task, especially selling in to one of those two distros I named. Anyway: > having them cleanly available as rpm > packages, instead of starting using dkms. My 2 cent: Normal users should get modules pre-compiled as rpm package (read: "we are not gentoo"). For enthusiasts something like dkms might be a good idea. But I think most of us don't want to maintain two codepaths for compiling kernel-modules, so we need to get both concepts under one hood. E.g.: either use dkms in the buildsys, too, or find a way to recompile the kmod srpm for new kernels automatically. I hope we (Spot, mdomsch, Jon Masters, /me, maybe some others) can sit down on the hackfest after fudon and work out a rough concept for the future. CU thl From tmraz at redhat.com Mon Jan 22 13:10:48 2007 From: tmraz at redhat.com (Tomas Mraz) Date: Mon, 22 Jan 2007 14:10:48 +0100 Subject: rawhide report: 20070120 changes In-Reply-To: <200701220721.23081.bernie@develer.com> References: <200701201127.l0KBRwLc007330@hs20-bc2-6.build.redhat.com> <200701220721.23081.bernie@develer.com> Message-ID: <1169471448.3244.3.camel@perun.kabelta.loc> On Mon, 2007-01-22 at 07:21 +0100, Bernardo Innocenti wrote: > On Saturday 20 January 2007 12:27, buildsys at redhat.com wrote: > > > pam-0.99.7.0-1.fc7 > > ------------------ > > * Fri Jan 19 2007 Tomas Mraz 0.99.7.0-1 > > - upgrade to new upstream version > > - drop pam_stack module as it is obsolete > > - some changes to silence rpmlint > > Is it just me or after this update anybody and his dog can > login without typing a valid password in any account? > > See: > > bernie at bender:~$ su - openwrt > Password: > openwrt at bender:~$ > openwrt at bender:~$ logout > openwrt at bender:~$ logout > bender:/etc/pam.d# grep openwrt /etc/passwd /etc/shadow > /etc/passwd:openwrt:x:501:501:openwrt compiler:/usr/local/src/openwrt:/bin/bash > /etc/shadow:openwrt:!!:13529:::::: > > I've installed this update yesterday in the evening and today > there were already rootkits and irc bots everywhere :) > Well it is not just you. And I am ashamed I didn't catch this problem when reviewing changes in new upstream version. :( It won't allow anyone to any account but only accounts with only two characters in passwd field - like !! and similar. It is very serious anyway. Should be fixed in pam-0.99.7.0-2.fc7. -- Tomas Mraz No matter how far down the wrong road you've gone, turn back. Turkish proverb From kevin.kofler at chello.at Mon Jan 22 13:27:55 2007 From: kevin.kofler at chello.at (Kevin Kofler) Date: Mon, 22 Jan 2007 13:27:55 +0000 (UTC) Subject: Fedora 7 encrypted root partition References: <1169231451.11652.5.camel@hughsie-laptop> <1169236206.3157.5.camel@aglarond.local> Message-ID: Gianluca Sforna gmail.com> writes: > Have you ever seen a french KB? Yes. There's a couple more letter swaps (Q<->A, Y->Z->W->Y, M in a different place, so they'd have to type '?'), and the numbers are shifted in the French layout and not in the US one. Still, it's possible to remember the differences. And why are YOU complaining? The Italian layout has the letters and numbers in the exact same place as the US one, so alphanumeric-only passwords would solve your problem. :-) Kevin Kofler From kevin.kofler at chello.at Mon Jan 22 13:37:12 2007 From: kevin.kofler at chello.at (Kevin Kofler) Date: Mon, 22 Jan 2007 13:37:12 +0000 (UTC) Subject: Fedora 7 encrypted root partition References: <1169231451.11652.5.camel@hughsie-laptop> <1169236206.3157.5.camel@aglarond.local> Message-ID: > Yes. There's a couple more letter swaps (Q<->A, Y->Z->W->Y, M in a different > place, so they'd have to type '?'), and the numbers are shifted in the French > layout and not in the US one. Still, it's possible to remember the > differences. PS: Oh, and what about something having Anaconda enforce something like: "Due to keyboard layout differences, non-alphanumeric characters and the letters A, M, Q, W, Y and Z are not allowed in HD passwords." Wouldn't that solve most of these issues? Kevin Kofler From vonbrand at inf.utfsm.cl Mon Jan 22 15:09:13 2007 From: vonbrand at inf.utfsm.cl (Horst H. von Brand) Date: Mon, 22 Jan 2007 12:09:13 -0300 Subject: rawhide report: 20070120 changes In-Reply-To: <200701220721.23081.bernie@develer.com> References: <200701201127.l0KBRwLc007330@hs20-bc2-6.build.redhat.com> <200701220721.23081.bernie@develer.com> Message-ID: <200701221509.l0MF9DbE015590@laptop13.inf.utfsm.cl> Bernardo Innocenti wrote: > On Saturday 20 January 2007 12:27, buildsys at redhat.com wrote: > > > pam-0.99.7.0-1.fc7 > > ------------------ > > * Fri Jan 19 2007 Tomas Mraz 0.99.7.0-1 > > - upgrade to new upstream version > > - drop pam_stack module as it is obsolete > > - some changes to silence rpmlint > > Is it just me or after this update anybody and his dog can > login without typing a valid password in any account? > See: > > bernie at bender:~$ su - openwrt > Password: Doesn't work. Just works. But only on i686, not x86_64. Somebody sneaked into postgres via ssh on an x86_64 here on the 21 (after the update)... -- Dr. Horst H. von Brand User #22616 counter.li.org Departamento de Informatica Fono: +56 32 2654431 Universidad Tecnica Federico Santa Maria +56 32 2654239 Casilla 110-V, Valparaiso, Chile Fax: +56 32 2797513 From cra at WPI.EDU Mon Jan 22 15:18:31 2007 From: cra at WPI.EDU (Chuck Anderson) Date: Mon, 22 Jan 2007 10:18:31 -0500 Subject: Fedora 7 encrypted root partition In-Reply-To: References: <1169231451.11652.5.camel@hughsie-laptop> <1169236206.3157.5.camel@aglarond.local> Message-ID: <20070122151831.GC28558@angus.ind.WPI.EDU> On Mon, Jan 22, 2007 at 01:37:12PM +0000, Kevin Kofler wrote: > > Yes. There's a couple more letter swaps (Q<->A, Y->Z->W->Y, M in a different > > place, so they'd have to type '?'), and the numbers are shifted in the French > > layout and not in the US one. Still, it's possible to remember the > > differences. > > PS: Oh, and what about something having Anaconda enforce something like: > "Due to keyboard layout differences, non-alphanumeric characters and the > letters A, M, Q, W, Y and Z are not allowed in HD passwords." > Wouldn't that solve most of these issues? It's already hard enough to pick good passphrases while still being able to remember them. Limiting choices doesn't help matters. Pehaps mkinitrd can store the appropriate keymap to be loaded at initrd time? Then at least the Anaconda-chosen language/keymap could be used. From sundaram at fedoraproject.org Mon Jan 22 15:21:59 2007 From: sundaram at fedoraproject.org (Rahul Sundaram) Date: Mon, 22 Jan 2007 20:51:59 +0530 Subject: dkms for fc7? In-Reply-To: <45B4B356.3000108@leemhuis.info> References: <20070119153556.7bf08b28@python3.es.egwn.lan> <45B4B356.3000108@leemhuis.info> Message-ID: <45B4D697.90801@fedoraproject.org> Thorsten Leemhuis wrote: > The real long term solution IMHO can only be: get all kernel modules > into the upstream kernel. ;-) We IMHO should cooperate with at least > Opensuse and Ubuntu to put more pressure on the driver developers by not > including them in our There is a assumption here that these distributions have the desire to push modules and patches upstream strongly. I wouldnt bet on it. Rahul From jkeating at redhat.com Mon Jan 22 15:31:03 2007 From: jkeating at redhat.com (Jesse Keating) Date: Mon, 22 Jan 2007 10:31:03 -0500 Subject: rawhide report: 20070120 changes In-Reply-To: <200701221509.l0MF9DbE015590@laptop13.inf.utfsm.cl> References: <200701201127.l0KBRwLc007330@hs20-bc2-6.build.redhat.com> <200701220721.23081.bernie@develer.com> <200701221509.l0MF9DbE015590@laptop13.inf.utfsm.cl> Message-ID: <200701221031.03733.jkeating@redhat.com> On Monday 22 January 2007 10:09, Horst H. von Brand wrote: > Doesn't work. Just works. But only on i686, not x86_64. > > Somebody sneaked into postgres via ssh on an x86_64 here on the 21 (after > the update)... You're running rawhide on an internet facing system? -- Jesse Keating Release Engineer: Fedora -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 189 bytes Desc: not available URL: From david at lovesunix.net Mon Jan 22 15:32:29 2007 From: david at lovesunix.net (David Nielsen) Date: Mon, 22 Jan 2007 16:32:29 +0100 Subject: rawhide report: 20070120 changes In-Reply-To: <200701221031.03733.jkeating@redhat.com> References: <200701201127.l0KBRwLc007330@hs20-bc2-6.build.redhat.com> <200701220721.23081.bernie@develer.com> <200701221509.l0MF9DbE015590@laptop13.inf.utfsm.cl> <200701221031.03733.jkeating@redhat.com> Message-ID: <1169479949.3368.3.camel@dawkins> man, 22 01 2007 kl. 10:31 -0500, skrev Jesse Keating: > On Monday 22 January 2007 10:09, Horst H. von Brand wrote: > > Doesn't work. Just works. But only on i686, not x86_64. > > > > Somebody sneaked into postgres via ssh on an x86_64 here on the 21 (after > > the update)... > > You're running rawhide on an internet facing system? You have to admire the sense of adventure - David -- "Ridicule is the only weapon that can be used against unintelligible propositions. Ideas must be distinct before reason can act upon them.? -Thomas Jefferson -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: signature.asc Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 189 bytes Desc: Dette er en digitalt underskrevet brevdel URL: From katzj at redhat.com Mon Jan 22 15:40:56 2007 From: katzj at redhat.com (Jeremy Katz) Date: Mon, 22 Jan 2007 10:40:56 -0500 Subject: Inclusion of Grub 2 in FC7 ? In-Reply-To: <9f50a7a00701201904v1631647ai5e1f20e370048573@mail.gmail.com> References: <9f50a7a00701201547t50b2a758ocf77343515fa71e9@mail.gmail.com> <1169347975.3159.123.camel@vader.jdub.homelinux.org> <9f50a7a00701201904v1631647ai5e1f20e370048573@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <1169480456.27691.11.camel@aglarond.local> On Sat, 2007-01-20 at 21:04 -0600, Jerone Young wrote: > It is a bit late in the cycle, but how about inclusion of the packages > in the repository as a secondary method. It could then easily (barring > no issues) probably be made the primary method around FC 8 time > frame. If someone wants to submit packages, then I think that would be great to help make progress on getting it more ready for a switch for a future release. There are definitely a number of reasons why it would be nice to be able to switch, but the last time I looked, there were also a few important things missing for actually switching -- we really need to be able to have pretty close to parity on the features that we use by default[1] Jeremy [1] Everything from menuing to the splash image support. From jwboyer at jdub.homelinux.org Mon Jan 22 15:46:47 2007 From: jwboyer at jdub.homelinux.org (Josh Boyer) Date: Mon, 22 Jan 2007 09:46:47 -0600 Subject: rawhide report: 20070120 changes In-Reply-To: <200701221031.03733.jkeating@redhat.com> References: <200701201127.l0KBRwLc007330@hs20-bc2-6.build.redhat.com> <200701220721.23081.bernie@develer.com> <200701221509.l0MF9DbE015590@laptop13.inf.utfsm.cl> <200701221031.03733.jkeating@redhat.com> Message-ID: <1169480807.11081.36.camel@zod.rchland.ibm.com> On Mon, 2007-01-22 at 10:31 -0500, Jesse Keating wrote: > On Monday 22 January 2007 10:09, Horst H. von Brand wrote: > > Doesn't work. Just works. But only on i686, not x86_64. > > > > Somebody sneaked into postgres via ssh on an x86_64 here on the 21 (after > > the update)... > > You're running rawhide on an internet facing system? Why is that unreasonable? You want people to test stuff right... josh From jkeating at redhat.com Mon Jan 22 15:54:16 2007 From: jkeating at redhat.com (Jesse Keating) Date: Mon, 22 Jan 2007 10:54:16 -0500 Subject: rawhide report: 20070120 changes In-Reply-To: <1169480807.11081.36.camel@zod.rchland.ibm.com> References: <200701201127.l0KBRwLc007330@hs20-bc2-6.build.redhat.com> <200701221031.03733.jkeating@redhat.com> <1169480807.11081.36.camel@zod.rchland.ibm.com> Message-ID: <200701221054.16681.jkeating@redhat.com> On Monday 22 January 2007 10:46, Josh Boyer wrote: > > You're running rawhide on an internet facing system? > > Why is that unreasonable? ?You want people to test stuff right... Mostly because a lot of the packages in rawhide are untested, especially with external facing scenarios in mind. Rawhide can and will eat babies, sometimes through flaws that appear upstream and aren't caught until somebody packages it up and releases it to the wild. Always use Rawhide with caution. That said, a new spin of rawhide is forthcoming with the updated pam. Probably within an hour. -- Jesse Keating Release Engineer: Fedora -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 189 bytes Desc: not available URL: From vonbrand at inf.utfsm.cl Mon Jan 22 15:51:59 2007 From: vonbrand at inf.utfsm.cl (Horst H. von Brand) Date: Mon, 22 Jan 2007 12:51:59 -0300 Subject: rawhide report: 20070120 changes In-Reply-To: <200701221031.03733.jkeating@redhat.com> References: <200701201127.l0KBRwLc007330@hs20-bc2-6.build.redhat.com> <200701220721.23081.bernie@develer.com> <200701221509.l0MF9DbE015590@laptop13.inf.utfsm.cl> <200701221031.03733.jkeating@redhat.com> Message-ID: <200701221551.l0MFpxAg008036@laptop13.inf.utfsm.cl> Jesse Keating wrote: > On Monday 22 January 2007 10:09, Horst H. von Brand wrote: > > Doesn't work. Just works. But only on i686, not x86_64. > > Somebody sneaked into postgres via ssh on an x86_64 here on the 21 (after > > the update)... > You're running rawhide on an internet facing system? It should be mostly protected by the firewall, but yes. -- Dr. Horst H. von Brand User #22616 counter.li.org Departamento de Informatica Fono: +56 32 2654431 Universidad Tecnica Federico Santa Maria +56 32 2654239 Casilla 110-V, Valparaiso, Chile Fax: +56 32 2797513 From jkeating at redhat.com Mon Jan 22 15:55:11 2007 From: jkeating at redhat.com (Jesse Keating) Date: Mon, 22 Jan 2007 10:55:11 -0500 Subject: Inclusion of Grub 2 in FC7 ? In-Reply-To: <1169480456.27691.11.camel@aglarond.local> References: <9f50a7a00701201547t50b2a758ocf77343515fa71e9@mail.gmail.com> <9f50a7a00701201904v1631647ai5e1f20e370048573@mail.gmail.com> <1169480456.27691.11.camel@aglarond.local> Message-ID: <200701221055.11756.jkeating@redhat.com> On Monday 22 January 2007 10:40, Jeremy Katz wrote: > If someone wants to submit packages, Note, these packages would need to NOT conflict with the existing grub. -- Jesse Keating Release Engineer: Fedora -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 189 bytes Desc: not available URL: From katzj at redhat.com Mon Jan 22 16:03:45 2007 From: katzj at redhat.com (Jeremy Katz) Date: Mon, 22 Jan 2007 11:03:45 -0500 Subject: dkms for fc7? In-Reply-To: References: <20070119153556.7bf08b28@python3.es.egwn.lan> <45B0D8C9.8000409@poolshark.org> <39566.192.54.193.51.1169219604.squirrel@rousalka.dyndns.org> Message-ID: <1169481825.27691.17.camel@aglarond.local> On Sat, 2007-01-20 at 12:00 -0600, Jason L Tibbitts III wrote: > As far as I can see, the only downside to dkms modules is the > requirement for a build environment on the client machines. (Well, > that and the lack of a set of packaging guidelines. The build > environment requirement kept dkms out of consideration for Fedora > Extras kernel modules, a decision which I still find completely mind > boggling.) DKMS also adds another database that keeps track of the software you have installed. So instead of saying "please attach rpm -qa" so that you can look and see what kernel modules have been added, you also need to get the output of 'dkms list'. It also adds a whole new layer to how you get updates for the kernel modules beyond just "compile the same thing against a new kernel" Heck, why don't we also stop packaging perl modules as RPMs. I mean, there's CPAN, right? And there's now the cheeseshop + setuptools for python. Jeremy From thias at spam.spam.spam.spam.spam.spam.spam.egg.and.spam.freshrpms.net Mon Jan 22 16:10:34 2007 From: thias at spam.spam.spam.spam.spam.spam.spam.egg.and.spam.freshrpms.net (Matthias Saou) Date: Mon, 22 Jan 2007 17:10:34 +0100 Subject: dkms for fc7? In-Reply-To: <1169481825.27691.17.camel@aglarond.local> References: <20070119153556.7bf08b28@python3.es.egwn.lan> <45B0D8C9.8000409@poolshark.org> <39566.192.54.193.51.1169219604.squirrel@rousalka.dyndns.org> <1169481825.27691.17.camel@aglarond.local> Message-ID: <20070122171034.27062d4c@python3.es.egwn.lan> Jeremy Katz wrote : > Heck, why don't we also stop packaging perl modules as RPMs. I mean, > there's CPAN, right? And there's now the cheeseshop + setuptools for > python. Well, we just don't push out a new perl version to the released updates every few weeks :-) If the Fedora kernel never got updated, and only got bugfixes, then maybe kernel module packages would work well enough with weak symbols and such... but it would mean just too much wasted effort. Matthias -- Clean custom Red Hat Linux rpm packages : http://freshrpms.net/ Fedora Core release 6 (Zod) - Linux kernel 2.6.19-1.2895.fc6 Load : 0.16 0.13 0.14 From jwboyer at jdub.homelinux.org Mon Jan 22 16:15:22 2007 From: jwboyer at jdub.homelinux.org (Josh Boyer) Date: Mon, 22 Jan 2007 10:15:22 -0600 Subject: rawhide report: 20070120 changes In-Reply-To: <200701221054.16681.jkeating@redhat.com> References: <200701201127.l0KBRwLc007330@hs20-bc2-6.build.redhat.com> <200701221031.03733.jkeating@redhat.com> <1169480807.11081.36.camel@zod.rchland.ibm.com> <200701221054.16681.jkeating@redhat.com> Message-ID: <1169482522.11081.39.camel@zod.rchland.ibm.com> On Mon, 2007-01-22 at 10:54 -0500, Jesse Keating wrote: > On Monday 22 January 2007 10:46, Josh Boyer wrote: > > > You're running rawhide on an internet facing system? > > > > Why is that unreasonable? You want people to test stuff right... > > Mostly because a lot of the packages in rawhide are untested, especially with > external facing scenarios in mind. Rawhide can and will eat babies, > sometimes through flaws that appear upstream and aren't caught until somebody > packages it up and releases it to the wild. Always use Rawhide with caution. Sure... but unless someone tests these baby eating packages against a real life scenario, you're bound to find bugs _after_ release. I've seen that happen twice now in real products. (ok, perhaps not this pam one, but still) josh From jkeating at redhat.com Mon Jan 22 16:32:43 2007 From: jkeating at redhat.com (Jesse Keating) Date: Mon, 22 Jan 2007 11:32:43 -0500 Subject: rawhide report: 20070120 changes In-Reply-To: <1169482522.11081.39.camel@zod.rchland.ibm.com> References: <200701201127.l0KBRwLc007330@hs20-bc2-6.build.redhat.com> <200701221054.16681.jkeating@redhat.com> <1169482522.11081.39.camel@zod.rchland.ibm.com> Message-ID: <200701221132.43374.jkeating@redhat.com> On Monday 22 January 2007 11:15, Josh Boyer wrote: > Sure... but unless someone tests these baby eating packages against a > real life scenario, you're bound to find bugs _after_ release. ?I've > seen that happen twice now in real products. > > (ok, perhaps not this pam one, but still) Sure. However always keep in mind that using rawhide is an 'at your own risk' type of thing. We've got a chicken / egg problem. Packages need testing, but they will be untested when given to those that will do the testing. -- Jesse Keating Release Engineer: Fedora -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 189 bytes Desc: not available URL: From katzj at redhat.com Mon Jan 22 16:33:54 2007 From: katzj at redhat.com (Jeremy Katz) Date: Mon, 22 Jan 2007 11:33:54 -0500 Subject: dkms for fc7? In-Reply-To: <20070122171034.27062d4c@python3.es.egwn.lan> References: <20070119153556.7bf08b28@python3.es.egwn.lan> <45B0D8C9.8000409@poolshark.org> <39566.192.54.193.51.1169219604.squirrel@rousalka.dyndns.org> <1169481825.27691.17.camel@aglarond.local> <20070122171034.27062d4c@python3.es.egwn.lan> Message-ID: <1169483634.27691.23.camel@aglarond.local> On Mon, 2007-01-22 at 17:10 +0100, Matthias Saou wrote: > Jeremy Katz wrote : > > Heck, why don't we also stop packaging perl modules as RPMs. I mean, > > there's CPAN, right? And there's now the cheeseshop + setuptools for > > python. > > Well, we just don't push out a new perl version to the released updates > every few weeks :-) > If the Fedora kernel never got updated, and only got bugfixes, then > maybe kernel module packages would work well enough with weak symbols > and such... but it would mean just too much wasted effort. If only upstream would work like that :-) But seriously, I am pretty vehemently opposed to differing databases for tracking installed software. If the benefits of recompiling modules automagically is big enough, then we should make sure that the _output_ of the recompilation is an rpm that we can install and track just like anything else. There's no reason that dkms couldn't do this. At the same time, I don't think that's the default behavior that we want for users who want extra kernel modules. Instead, they should be able to download, install and have them work just like the rest of the software that we ship. Jeremy From lamont at gurulabs.com Mon Jan 22 16:36:37 2007 From: lamont at gurulabs.com (Lamont Peterson) Date: Mon, 22 Jan 2007 09:36:37 -0700 Subject: Fedora 7 encrypted root partition In-Reply-To: References: <1169231451.11652.5.camel@hughsie-laptop> Message-ID: <200701220936.42177.lamont@gurulabs.com> On Monday 22 January 2007 06:37am, Kevin Kofler wrote: > > Yes. There's a couple more letter swaps (Q<->A, Y->Z->W->Y, M in a > > different place, so they'd have to type '?'), and the numbers are shifted > > in the French layout and not in the US one. Still, it's possible to > > remember the differences. > > PS: Oh, and what about something having Anaconda enforce something like: > "Due to keyboard layout differences, non-alphanumeric characters and the > letters A, M, Q, W, Y and Z are not allowed in HD passwords." > Wouldn't that solve most of these issues? Perhaps...perhaps not. Either way, it would still be bad security, especially for encrypting something as large as the hard drive. Personally, I use a 28 character password for a single encrypted partition (not whole hard drive) on my notebook and I consider that to be minimal (will probably make it twice as long next time). -- Lamont Peterson Senior Instructor Guru Labs, L.C. [ http://www.GuruLabs.com/ ] NOTE: All messages from this email address should be digitally signed with my 0xDC0DD409 GPG key. It is available on the pgp.mit.edu keyserver as well as other keyservers that sync with MIT's. -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 189 bytes Desc: not available URL: From katzj at redhat.com Mon Jan 22 16:47:57 2007 From: katzj at redhat.com (Jeremy Katz) Date: Mon, 22 Jan 2007 11:47:57 -0500 Subject: Fedora 7 encrypted root partition In-Reply-To: References: <1169231451.11652.5.camel@hughsie-laptop> <1169236206.3157.5.camel@aglarond.local> Message-ID: <1169484477.27691.32.camel@aglarond.local> On Mon, 2007-01-22 at 13:37 +0000, Kevin Kofler wrote: > > Yes. There's a couple more letter swaps (Q<->A, Y->Z->W->Y, M in a different > > place, so they'd have to type '?'), and the numbers are shifted in the French > > layout and not in the US one. Still, it's possible to remember the > > differences. > > PS: Oh, and what about something having Anaconda enforce something like: > "Due to keyboard layout differences, non-alphanumeric characters and the > letters A, M, Q, W, Y and Z are not allowed in HD passwords." > Wouldn't that solve most of these issues? No. Huge amounts of the world don't even use a latin character set. Wikipedia has a good article showing the layout of keyboards for many different locales -- http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Keyboard_layout Fedora is a distribution that's used worldwide; integrating a significant feature and locking out huge chunks of our user base just isn't a good option. Jeremy From tibbs at math.uh.edu Mon Jan 22 16:56:35 2007 From: tibbs at math.uh.edu (Jason L Tibbitts III) Date: 22 Jan 2007 10:56:35 -0600 Subject: dkms for fc7? In-Reply-To: <1169481825.27691.17.camel@aglarond.local> References: <20070119153556.7bf08b28@python3.es.egwn.lan> <45B0D8C9.8000409@poolshark.org> <39566.192.54.193.51.1169219604.squirrel@rousalka.dyndns.org> <1169481825.27691.17.camel@aglarond.local> Message-ID: >>>>> "JK" == Jeremy Katz writes: JK> DKMS also adds another database that keeps track of the software JK> you have installed. So do Perl and Python and PHP and Ruby and various other complex subsystems, and yet we manage to work with those as well, mainly by having proper packaging guidelines, making the assumption that users will simply use rpm or yum to install things and by offering little or no help to them when they don't. So I'm a bit confused; are you saying that somehow dkms does not permit us to do the same thing? Or that somehow when you use RPM to install a dkms-managed kernel module, it no longer shows up with rpm -q? JK> Heck, why don't we also stop packaging perl modules as RPMs. I JK> mean, there's CPAN, right? This is a rather bizarre non-sequitur, I'm afraid. Obviously we could do that, but we don't. JK> And there's now the cheeseshop + setuptools for python. Yes, there is, but I don't see how that has any bearing on dkms. - J< From denis at poolshark.org Mon Jan 22 17:01:04 2007 From: denis at poolshark.org (Denis Leroy) Date: Mon, 22 Jan 2007 18:01:04 +0100 Subject: dkms for fc7? In-Reply-To: <1169483634.27691.23.camel@aglarond.local> References: <20070119153556.7bf08b28@python3.es.egwn.lan> <45B0D8C9.8000409@poolshark.org> <39566.192.54.193.51.1169219604.squirrel@rousalka.dyndns.org> <1169481825.27691.17.camel@aglarond.local> <20070122171034.27062d4c@python3.es.egwn.lan> <1169483634.27691.23.camel@aglarond.local> Message-ID: <45B4EDD0.90007@poolshark.org> Jeremy Katz wrote: > On Mon, 2007-01-22 at 17:10 +0100, Matthias Saou wrote: >> Jeremy Katz wrote : >>> Heck, why don't we also stop packaging perl modules as RPMs. I mean, >>> there's CPAN, right? And there's now the cheeseshop + setuptools for >>> python. >> Well, we just don't push out a new perl version to the released updates >> every few weeks :-) >> If the Fedora kernel never got updated, and only got bugfixes, then >> maybe kernel module packages would work well enough with weak symbols >> and such... but it would mean just too much wasted effort. > > If only upstream would work like that :-) > > But seriously, I am pretty vehemently opposed to differing databases for > tracking installed software. If the benefits of recompiling modules > automagically is big enough, then we should make sure that the _output_ > of the recompilation is an rpm that we can install and track just like > anything else. There's no reason that dkms couldn't do this. > > At the same time, I don't think that's the default behavior that we want > for users who want extra kernel modules. Instead, they should be able > to download, install and have them work just like the rest of the > software that we ship. dkms is solving a problem that people have *now*; frequent 'yum update' breakage (unless you use --skip-broken). Well, with a integrated Core+Extras build system, we could implement our own automated kernel module rebuild system, a repo-level dkms if you will. That has the advantage of staying "pure-RPM" and also guarantees that the module compiles with the new kernel update. So that yum won't let you update your kernel if that would mean losing wireless access, for example. We'll have to do this to resolve the firefox/galeon breakages automatically also... -denis From jpmahowald at gmail.com Mon Jan 22 16:05:31 2007 From: jpmahowald at gmail.com (John Mahowald) Date: Mon, 22 Jan 2007 10:05:31 -0600 Subject: Q: Howto rapidly develop/test without breaking local rpm db In-Reply-To: <1169250529.6793.27.camel@sioux.systems.cs.cornell.edu> References: <1169250529.6793.27.camel@sioux.systems.cs.cornell.edu> Message-ID: <3ea997540701220805w6f93aefag953a6597323b5cc6@mail.gmail.com> On 1/19/07, Saikat Guha wrote: > Q: I want to fix bugs in/hack software I use (evolution, gaim, > network-manager, compiz etc.). I typically have RPMs installed. What is > the easiest way to have a development environment and a quick > debug-compile-test loop without breaking the local RPM DB. > > * In particular, patching the .src.rpm and RPM rebuilding for each > debug-compile loop is a definite no (too slow). > > * Similarly, 'sudo make install' is likely not an option (breaks local > rpm tracking). > So you don't want to build an rpm, it's too slow, but want rpm's tracking measures? I don't think you can have this both ways. I agree that rpm is good for tracking, and would tend to go that way. > * Per-package 'configure --prefix=..' is okay but requires chasing down > application nuances (some need global gconf updated, some try to load > plugins from outside the build tree, other applications and > desktop-shortcuts need to be changed to point to the patched version > etc.) This does seem a fair bit of work for a quick hack. > > * chroot jail (where I am comfortable doing a 'make install') seems too > heavy weight. > > How do I rapidly develop/test on an RPM-managed box? > Some people have the resources to have a dedicated development system, or perhaps virtualization image. That way if something goes wrong your main workstation is not affected. It also is easy, toss in install media and get a clean system. However if chroot jails are too heavyweight perhaps Xen images or dedicated systems may be too. John From buildsys at redhat.com Mon Jan 22 17:39:06 2007 From: buildsys at redhat.com (buildsys at redhat.com) Date: Mon, 22 Jan 2007 12:39:06 -0500 Subject: rawhide report: 20070122 changes Message-ID: <200701221739.l0MHd6lR025250@hs20-bc2-6.build.redhat.com> Updated Packages: aspell-12:0.60.5-2.fc7 ---------------------- * Mon Jan 22 2007 Ivana Varekova - 12:0.60.5-2 - Resolves: 223676 fix non-failsafe install-info problem * Tue Jan 02 2007 Ivana Varekova - 12:0.60.5-1 - update to 0.60.4 - cleanup spec file * Wed Nov 08 2006 Ivana Varekova - 12:0.60.4-1 - update to 0.60.4 avahi-0.6.16-1.fc7 ------------------ * Mon Jan 22 2007 Martin Bacovsky - 0.6.16-1.fc7 - Resolves: #221763: CVE-2006-6870 Maliciously crafted packed can DoS avahi daemon - upgrade to new upstream - patch revision - Resolves: #218140: avahi configuration file wants a non-existent group bc-1.06-22 ---------- * Mon Jan 22 2007 Thomas Woerner 1.06-22 - rebuild for ncurses * Wed Jul 12 2006 Jesse Keating - 1.06-21 - rebuild - add missing br automake * Tue Jun 06 2006 Thomas Woerner 1.06-20 - added missing flex build require bind-31:9.3.3-4.fc7 ------------------- * Mon Jan 22 2007 Adam Tkac 31:9.3.3-4.fc7 - package bind-libbind-devel has beed removed (libs has been moved to bind-devel & bind-libs) - Resolves: #214208 * Tue Jan 16 2007 Martin Stransky - 31:9.3.3-3 - fixed a multi-lib issue - Resolves: rhbz#222717 * Thu Jan 04 2007 Martin Stransky - 31:9.3.3-2 - added namedGetForwarders written in shell (#176100), created by Baris Cicek . bison-2.3-3.fc7 --------------- * Sun Jan 21 2007 Roland McGrath - 2.3-3 - Canonicalize post/preun use of install-info. - Resolves: 223679 busybox-1:1.2.2-3.fc7 --------------------- * Mon Jan 22 2007 Ivana Varekova - 1:1.2.2-3 - Resolves: 223620 id output shows context twice - fix iptunnel x kernel-headers problem cpio-2.6-23.fc7 --------------- * Mon Jan 22 2007 Peter Vrabec 2.6-23 - fix non-failsafe install-info use in scriptlets (#223682) ekiga-2.0.4-1.fc7 ----------------- * Mon Jan 22 2007 Daniel Veillard - 2.0.4-1 - Upgrade to ekiga-2.0.4 * Thu Nov 02 2006 Daniel Veillard - 2.0.3-3 - Resolves: rhbz#201535 - fixes build-requires for opal-devel and pwlib-devel * Sat Oct 28 2006 Matthias Clasen - 2.0.3-2 - Rebuild against evolution-data-server 1.9 emacspeak-25-1.fc7 ------------------ * Mon Jan 22 2007 Jens Petersen - 25-1 - update to version 25 - update emacspeak-tcl-pkgreq-tclx.patch - protect install-info in %post and %preun (Ville Skytt??, #223685) gettext-0.16.1-3.fc7 -------------------- * Mon Jan 22 2007 Jens Petersen - 0.16.1-3 - protect install-info in %post and %preun (Ville Skytt??, #223689) gnome-desktop-2.17.90-1.fc7 --------------------------- * Sun Jan 21 2007 Matthias Clasen - 2.17.90-1 - Update to 2.17.90 - Drop some long-obsolete images - Clean up BuildRequires gnome-panel-2.17.90-1.fc7 ------------------------- * Mon Jan 22 2007 Matthias Clasen - 2.17.90-1 - Update to 2.17.90 - Clean up BuildRequires - Allow user switching from the logout dialog gnome-session-2.17.90-1.fc7 --------------------------- * Sun Jan 21 2007 Matthias Clasen - 2.17.90-1 - Update to 2.17.90 - Clean up BuildRequires gnuplot-4.0.0-16.fc7 -------------------- * Mon Jan 22 2007 Ivana Varekova - 4.0.0-16 - Resolves: 223693 fix non-failsafe install-info problem gperf-3.0.2-3.fc7 ----------------- * Mon Jan 22 2007 Florian La Roche - rhbz#223695 gpm-1.20.1-80.fc7 ----------------- * Mon Jan 22 2007 Tomas Janousek - 1.20.1-80 - forgot to add the patch for #168076 * Mon Jan 22 2007 Tomas Janousek - 1.20.1-79 - added disttag to release * Mon Jan 22 2007 Tomas Janousek - 1.20.1-78 - refuse connections while waiting for console, fixes #168076 groff-1.18.1.4-2 ---------------- * Mon Jan 22 2007 Marcela Maslanova - 1.18.1.4-2 - changes in spec, remove patches groff-1.18.1.1-bigendian.patch, groff-xlibs.patch gsl-1.8-2.fc7 ------------- * Mon Jan 22 2007 Ivana Varekova - 1.8-2 - Resolves: 223700 fix non-failsafe install-info problem - spec file cleanup gzip-1.3.9-2.fc7 ---------------- * Mon Jan 22 2007 Ivana Varekova 1.3.9-2 - Resolves: 223702 fix non-failsafe install-info problem lvm2-2.02.19-2.fc7 ------------------ * Mon Jan 22 2007 Milan Broz - 2.02.19-2 - Remove BuildRequires libtermcap-devel Resolves: #223766 mtools-3.9.10-3.fc7 ------------------- * Mon Jan 22 2007 Adam Tkac 3.9.10-3 - Resolves: #223712 - applied Ville Skytt?'s (ville.skytta "antispam" iki.fi) patch (install-info scriptlet failures) ncurses-5.6-2.20070120.fc7 -------------------------- * Sun Jan 21 2007 Miroslav Lichvar 5.6-2.20070120 - update to patch 20070120 - don't depend on bash, drop resetall script - include rxvt-unicode description opal-2.2.4-1.fc7 ---------------- * Mon Jan 22 2007 Daniel Veillard - 2.2.4-1 - upstream release of 2.2.4 pam-0.99.7.0-2.fc7 ------------------ * Mon Jan 22 2007 Tomas Mraz 0.99.7.0-2 - add back min salt length requirement which was erroneously removed upstream * Fri Jan 19 2007 Tomas Mraz 0.99.7.0-1 - upgrade to new upstream version - drop pam_stack module as it is obsolete - some changes to silence rpmlint * Tue Jan 16 2007 Tomas Mraz 0.99.6.2-8 - properly include /var/log/faillog and tallylog as ghosts and create them in post script (#209646) - update gmo files as we patch some po files (#218271) - add use_current_range option to pam_selinux (#220487) - improve the role selection in pam_selinux - remove shortcut on Password: in ja locale (#218271) - revert to old euid and not ruid when setting euid in pam_keyinit (#219486) - rename selinux-namespace patch to namespace-level pcre-7.0-2 ---------- * Mon Jan 22 2007 Than Ngo - 7.0-1 - 7.0 psgml-1.2.5-5.fc7 ----------------- * Mon Jan 22 2007 Adam Tkac 1.2.5-5.fc7 - added dist macro - fixed install-info scriptlet failures (#223715), patch from Ville Skytt? (ville.skytta "antispam" iki.fi) pwlib-1.10.3-1.fc7 ------------------ * Mon Jan 22 2007 Daniel Veillard - 1.10.3-1 - Update to 1.10.3 quagga-0:0.98.6-3.fc7 --------------------- * Mon Jan 22 2007 Martin Bacovsky - 0.98.6-3.fc7 - Resolves: #172548 - quagga.spec defines with_vtysh 1 but vtysh is not enabled in the build rsh-0.17-39.fc7 --------------- * Mon Jan 22 2007 Adam Tkac 0.17-39.fc7 - rebased on ncurses instead of libtermcap s390utils-2:1.5.4-4.fc7 ----------------------- * Mon Jan 22 2007 Phil Knirsch 2:1.5.4-4.fc7 - Fixed problem with invisible zfcp devices after boot (#223569) tar-2:1.15.1-25.fc7 ------------------- * Wed Jan 03 2007 Peter Vrabec 2:1.15.1-25 - fix non-failsafe install-info use in scriptlets (#223718) tetex-3.0-35.fc7 ---------------- * Mon Jan 22 2007 Jindrich Movy 3.0-35 - make preun scripts failsafe for subpackages when docs are excluded (#223719) time-1.7-28.fc7 --------------- * Mon Jan 22 2007 Florian La Roche - add dist tag - fix rhbz#223720 vixie-cron-4:4.1-72.fc7 ----------------------- * Mon Jan 22 2007 Marcela Maslanova - 4:4.1-72 - change in manual - rhbz#223532 - rhbz#223662, rhbz#222464 which-2.16-8 ------------ * Mon Jan 22 2007 Than Ngo - 2.16-8 - install-info scriptlet failures Broken deps for ppc64 ---------------------------------------------------------- emacspeak - 25-1.fc7.noarch requires /usr/bin/tcl Broken deps for i386 ---------------------------------------------------------- emacspeak - 25-1.fc7.noarch requires /usr/bin/tcl Broken deps for x86_64 ---------------------------------------------------------- emacspeak - 25-1.fc7.noarch requires /usr/bin/tcl Broken deps for ppc ---------------------------------------------------------- emacspeak - 25-1.fc7.noarch requires /usr/bin/tcl Broken deps for ia64 ---------------------------------------------------------- emacspeak - 25-1.fc7.noarch requires /usr/bin/tcl Broken deps for s390 ---------------------------------------------------------- emacspeak - 25-1.fc7.noarch requires /usr/bin/tcl systemtap - 0.5.10-1.fc7.s390 requires kernel >= 0:2.6.9-11 systemtap-runtime - 0.5.10-1.fc7.s390 requires kernel >= 0:2.6.9-11 Broken deps for s390x ---------------------------------------------------------- emacspeak - 25-1.fc7.noarch requires /usr/bin/tcl From lsof at nodata.co.uk Mon Jan 22 18:17:53 2007 From: lsof at nodata.co.uk (nodata) Date: Mon, 22 Jan 2007 19:17:53 +0100 Subject: Inclusion of Grub 2 in FC7 ? In-Reply-To: <200701221055.11756.jkeating@redhat.com> References: <9f50a7a00701201547t50b2a758ocf77343515fa71e9@mail.gmail.com> <9f50a7a00701201904v1631647ai5e1f20e370048573@mail.gmail.com> <1169480456.27691.11.camel@aglarond.local> <200701221055.11756.jkeating@redhat.com> Message-ID: <1169489873.3020.16.camel@sb-home.lan> Am Montag, den 22.01.2007, 10:55 -0500 schrieb Jesse Keating: > On Monday 22 January 2007 10:40, Jeremy Katz wrote: > > If someone wants to submit packages, > > Note, these packages would need to NOT conflict with the existing grub. > > -- > fedora-devel-list mailing list > fedora-devel-list at redhat.com > https://www.redhat.com/mailman/listinfo/fedora-devel-list Easy on the caps! :) From katzj at redhat.com Mon Jan 22 18:27:29 2007 From: katzj at redhat.com (Jeremy Katz) Date: Mon, 22 Jan 2007 13:27:29 -0500 Subject: dkms for fc7? In-Reply-To: References: <20070119153556.7bf08b28@python3.es.egwn.lan> <45B0D8C9.8000409@poolshark.org> <39566.192.54.193.51.1169219604.squirrel@rousalka.dyndns.org> <1169481825.27691.17.camel@aglarond.local> Message-ID: <1169490449.27691.41.camel@aglarond.local> On Mon, 2007-01-22 at 10:56 -0600, Jason L Tibbitts III wrote: > >>>>> "JK" == Jeremy Katz writes: > JK> DKMS also adds another database that keeps track of the software > JK> you have installed. > > So do Perl and Python and PHP and Ruby and various other complex > subsystems, and yet we manage to work with those as well, mainly by > having proper packaging guidelines, making the assumption that users > will simply use rpm or yum to install things and by offering little or > no help to them when they don't. Much like the fact that we have proper packaging guidelines for kernel modules, assume that users will simply use rpm or yum to install them and offer little or no help to them if they want to do otherwise? > So I'm a bit confused; are you saying that somehow dkms does not > permit us to do the same thing? The same thing as which of the above? Jeremy From smooge at gmail.com Mon Jan 22 18:39:02 2007 From: smooge at gmail.com (Stephen John Smoogen) Date: Mon, 22 Jan 2007 11:39:02 -0700 Subject: dkms for fc7? In-Reply-To: <50604.192.54.193.51.1169459255.squirrel@rousalka.dyndns.org> References: <20070119153556.7bf08b28@python3.es.egwn.lan> <45B0D8C9.8000409@poolshark.org> <39566.192.54.193.51.1169219604.squirrel@rousalka.dyndns.org> <50604.192.54.193.51.1169459255.squirrel@rousalka.dyndns.org> Message-ID: <80d7e4090701221039i7aa2cbeegbcb10511565763bf@mail.gmail.com> On 1/22/07, Nicolas Mailhot wrote: > > Le Lun 22 janvier 2007 01:59, Kevin Kofler a ?crit : > > Nicolas Mailhot laposte.net> writes: > >> Out-of-tree driver writer 1 will say "I only support 2.6.x proper" > >> Out-of-tree driver writer 2 will say "I only support up to 2.6.x-rcy" > >> davej will say "I'll ship 2.6.x.3 in because previous releases are > >> missing > >> a critical fix and that matches the Fedora release schedule" > > > > Then you patch the modules. :-) > > Then you're back to square one, except you don't have your pool of users > pushing for in-kernel merge anymore > To be honest.. I don't see any pool of users pushing for in-kernel merge anyway.. or that they are going to be very effective in causing this. In kernel merge comes when the code is acceptable.. not because 400 people email Linus and the 'core developers': please put xyz-ntx module into mainline. -- Stephen J Smoogen. -- CSIRT/Linux System Administrator How far that little candle throws his beams! So shines a good deed in a naughty world. = Shakespeare. "The Merchant of Venice" From smooge at gmail.com Mon Jan 22 18:42:44 2007 From: smooge at gmail.com (Stephen John Smoogen) Date: Mon, 22 Jan 2007 11:42:44 -0700 Subject: dkms for fc7? In-Reply-To: <45B4B356.3000108@leemhuis.info> References: <20070119153556.7bf08b28@python3.es.egwn.lan> <45B4B356.3000108@leemhuis.info> Message-ID: <80d7e4090701221042u54a9c724i14efd26a3075e4e@mail.gmail.com> On 1/22/07, Thorsten Leemhuis wrote: > > My 2 cent: Normal users should get modules pre-compiled as rpm package > (read: "we are not gentoo"). For enthusiasts something like dkms might > be a good idea. But I think most of us don't want to maintain two > codepaths for compiling kernel-modules, so we need to get both concepts > under one hood. E.g.: either use dkms in the buildsys, too, or find a > way to recompile the kmod srpm for new kernels automatically. > dkms can create packages with precompiled kernel modules and can be used to build/update itself whenever a kernel update occurs. I did this for RHEL-4 on our sattelite server. I knew that if I was late however, the dkms could take care of itself on those systems. Which was very useful for people who needed stuff off-line. -- Stephen J Smoogen. -- CSIRT/Linux System Administrator How far that little candle throws his beams! So shines a good deed in a naughty world. = Shakespeare. "The Merchant of Venice" From vonbrand at inf.utfsm.cl Mon Jan 22 18:57:38 2007 From: vonbrand at inf.utfsm.cl (Horst H. von Brand) Date: Mon, 22 Jan 2007 15:57:38 -0300 Subject: dkms for fc7? In-Reply-To: <80d7e4090701221039i7aa2cbeegbcb10511565763bf@mail.gmail.com> References: <20070119153556.7bf08b28@python3.es.egwn.lan> <45B0D8C9.8000409@poolshark.org> <39566.192.54.193.51.1169219604.squirrel@rousalka.dyndns.org> <50604.192.54.193.51.1169459255.squirrel@rousalka.dyndns.org> <80d7e4090701221039i7aa2cbeegbcb10511565763bf@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <200701221857.l0MIvcVX013079@laptop13.inf.utfsm.cl> Stephen John Smoogen wrote: > On 1/22/07, Nicolas Mailhot wrote: > > Le Lun 22 janvier 2007 01:59, Kevin Kofler a ??crit : > > > Nicolas Mailhot laposte.net> writes: > > >> Out-of-tree driver writer 1 will say "I only support 2.6.x proper" > > >> Out-of-tree driver writer 2 will say "I only support up to 2.6.x-rcy" > > >> davej will say "I'll ship 2.6.x.3 in because previous releases are > > >> missing > > >> a critical fix and that matches the Fedora release schedule" > > > > > > Then you patch the modules. :-) > > > > Then you're back to square one, except you don't have your pool of users > > pushing for in-kernel merge anymore > To be honest.. I don't see any pool of users pushing for in-kernel > merge anyway.. Try it. > or that they are going to be very effective in causing > this. In kernel merge comes when the code is acceptable.. not because > 400 people email Linus and the 'core developers': please put xyz-ntx > module into mainline. They should bug the developers of the code to be included to clean up and submit. -- Dr. Horst H. von Brand User #22616 counter.li.org Departamento de Informatica Fono: +56 32 2654431 Universidad Tecnica Federico Santa Maria +56 32 2654239 Casilla 110-V, Valparaiso, Chile Fax: +56 32 2797513 From nicolas.mailhot at laposte.net Mon Jan 22 19:18:48 2007 From: nicolas.mailhot at laposte.net (Nicolas Mailhot) Date: Mon, 22 Jan 2007 20:18:48 +0100 Subject: dkms for fc7? In-Reply-To: <80d7e4090701221039i7aa2cbeegbcb10511565763bf@mail.gmail.com> References: <20070119153556.7bf08b28@python3.es.egwn.lan> <45B0D8C9.8000409@poolshark.org> <39566.192.54.193.51.1169219604.squirrel@rousalka.dyndns.org> <50604.192.54.193.51.1169459255.squirrel@rousalka.dyndns.org> <80d7e4090701221039i7aa2cbeegbcb10511565763bf@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <1169493528.21849.6.camel@rousalka.dyndns.org> Le lundi 22 janvier 2007 ? 11:39 -0700, Stephen John Smoogen a ?crit : > To be honest.. I don't see any pool of users pushing for in-kernel > merge anyway.. or that they are going to be very effective in causing > this. Out-of-tree driver packaging has a terrible effect as a disincentive to merge Linus-wise (not that most out-of-tree driver writers do not already lean that way, but distro packaging is usually the last "don't bother" straw). Third-party out-of-tree packaging has the additional effect driver authors do not consider themselves under any moral obligation to merge their stuff later > In kernel merge comes when the code is acceptable.. not because > 400 people email Linus and the 'core developers': please put xyz-ntx > module into mainline. You have to push driver authors, not kernel developers. Linus won't include as a matter of principle stuff someone else wrote if the author does not participate -- Nicolas Mailhot -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: signature.asc Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 197 bytes Desc: Ceci est une partie de message num?riquement sign?e URL: From jpmahowald at gmail.com Mon Jan 22 16:10:43 2007 From: jpmahowald at gmail.com (John Mahowald) Date: Mon, 22 Jan 2007 10:10:43 -0600 Subject: Automated installation joy In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <3ea997540701220810p30752c1coa6a91e2045b2baa8@mail.gmail.com> On 1/19/07, Ed Swierk wrote: > My company uses Fedora for its software development platform, and over > time we've built up a set of packages (called "Arora") that make it > easy to assimilate a vanilla Fedora box into our environment. > At first I thought of Aurora, the port to SPARC [1]. Could be slightly confusing if you had SPARC hardware internally! > > Guess what? It works perfectly! I kick off the install, wander away, > and when I come back in 15 minutes, the machine is up and running, > fully configured for our environment with all our development tools in > place. As they say in those infomercials, just set it and forget it. > > Great work, Anaconda developers! > Glad to hear that it works. I should try this sometime. John [1] http://auroralinux.org/ From mattdm at mattdm.org Mon Jan 22 20:58:14 2007 From: mattdm at mattdm.org (Matthew Miller) Date: Mon, 22 Jan 2007 15:58:14 -0500 Subject: Rawhide: kernel panic 2.6.19-1.2912.fc7 (but not in VMware) In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <20070122205814.GA6063@jadzia.bu.edu> On Sun, Jan 21, 2007 at 02:56:32PM +0100, Vnpenguin wrote: > I use VMplayer to run FC6 guest OS on Windows XP. Yesterday, I > upgraded FC6 to FC7 (rawhide). Upgrading process is ok , but now I > can't boot with kernel 2.6.19-1.2912.fc7: I've been coasting along with Rawhide for quite some time, but now, starting with the 2.6.19 kernels, I have a similar problem. I've got boot on /dev/sda1 and /dev/sda2 is a phyiscal volume with everything else in lvm (logical volumes in volume group "vg0"). 2.6.18-1.2849.fc6 works fine, but all of the 2.6.19s I've tried, including 2.6.19-1.2912.fc7, say that they can't find any logical volume groups and then promptly panic. Right before that, I see the scsi probes, and it seems to be finding the physical disk. Haven't had time to figure this out, but I thought I'd throw the data out there. -- Matthew Miller mattdm at mattdm.org Boston University Linux ------> From nicolas.mailhot at laposte.net Mon Jan 22 21:40:37 2007 From: nicolas.mailhot at laposte.net (Nicolas Mailhot) Date: Mon, 22 Jan 2007 22:40:37 +0100 Subject: Rawhide: kernel panic 2.6.19-1.2912.fc7 (but not in VMware) In-Reply-To: <20070122205814.GA6063@jadzia.bu.edu> References: <20070122205814.GA6063@jadzia.bu.edu> Message-ID: <1169502037.27134.1.camel@rousalka.dyndns.org> Le lundi 22 janvier 2007 ? 15:58 -0500, Matthew Miller a ?crit : > On Sun, Jan 21, 2007 at 02:56:32PM +0100, Vnpenguin wrote: > > I use VMplayer to run FC6 guest OS on Windows XP. Yesterday, I > > upgraded FC6 to FC7 (rawhide). Upgrading process is ok , but now I > > can't boot with kernel 2.6.19-1.2912.fc7: > > I've been coasting along with Rawhide for quite some time, but now, starting > with the 2.6.19 kernels, I have a similar problem. I've got boot on > /dev/sda1 and /dev/sda2 is a phyiscal volume with everything else in lvm > (logical volumes in volume group "vg0"). No md raid ? mkinitrd is broken for md raid right now (may be for other things, but lvm works here once the md stuff is fixed) -- Nicolas Mailhot -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: signature.asc Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 197 bytes Desc: Ceci est une partie de message num?riquement sign?e URL: From eric.tanguy at univ-nantes.fr Mon Jan 22 21:43:52 2007 From: eric.tanguy at univ-nantes.fr (Tanguy Eric) Date: Mon, 22 Jan 2007 22:43:52 +0100 Subject: kernel versionning problem Message-ID: <1169502233.4812.3.camel@bureau.maison> I sent this message to fedora-list at redhat.com but i had no reaction so i try also the devel one because i find this is problem we have to solve for the core and extras merge, no ? I'm tired to have problems with rt2500 driver at each new fedora kernel release because the versionning seems to not follow standards : http://rt2x00.serialmonkey.com/phpBB2/viewtopic.php?t=2965 What do you think about this ? Someone have similar problems with other modules ? Eric From sundaram at fedoraproject.org Mon Jan 22 21:43:26 2007 From: sundaram at fedoraproject.org (Rahul Sundaram) Date: Tue, 23 Jan 2007 03:13:26 +0530 Subject: kernel versionning problem In-Reply-To: <1169502233.4812.3.camel@bureau.maison> References: <1169502233.4812.3.camel@bureau.maison> Message-ID: <45B52FFE.5080307@fedoraproject.org> Tanguy Eric wrote: > I sent this message to fedora-list at redhat.com but i had no reaction so i > try also the devel one because i find this is problem we have to solve > for the core and extras merge, no ? > > I'm tired to have problems with rt2500 driver at each new fedora kernel > release because the versionning seems to not follow standards : > http://rt2x00.serialmonkey.com/phpBB2/viewtopic.php?t=2965 > > What do you think about this ? > > Someone have similar problems with other modules ? This one is going all the way up to Linus since apparently he prefers the current naming. See http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Extras/SteeringCommittee/Meeting-20070111 for the glorious details. Rahul From jwboyer at jdub.homelinux.org Mon Jan 22 21:49:05 2007 From: jwboyer at jdub.homelinux.org (Josh Boyer) Date: Mon, 22 Jan 2007 15:49:05 -0600 Subject: kernel versionning problem In-Reply-To: <1169502233.4812.3.camel@bureau.maison> References: <1169502233.4812.3.camel@bureau.maison> Message-ID: <1169502545.11081.53.camel@zod.rchland.ibm.com> On Mon, 2007-01-22 at 22:43 +0100, Tanguy Eric wrote: > I sent this message to fedora-list at redhat.com but i had no reaction so i > try also the devel one because i find this is problem we have to solve > for the core and extras merge, no ? No. > I'm tired to have problems with rt2500 driver at each new fedora kernel > release because the versionning seems to not follow standards : > http://rt2x00.serialmonkey.com/phpBB2/viewtopic.php?t=2965 > > What do you think about this ? The solution is to get the drivers into the upstream kernel. Period. josh From eric.tanguy at univ-nantes.fr Mon Jan 22 21:55:55 2007 From: eric.tanguy at univ-nantes.fr (Tanguy Eric) Date: Mon, 22 Jan 2007 22:55:55 +0100 Subject: kernel versionning problem In-Reply-To: <1169502545.11081.53.camel@zod.rchland.ibm.com> References: <1169502233.4812.3.camel@bureau.maison> <1169502545.11081.53.camel@zod.rchland.ibm.com> Message-ID: <1169502955.4812.6.camel@bureau.maison> Le lundi 22 janvier 2007 ? 15:49 -0600, Josh Boyer a ?crit : > On Mon, 2007-01-22 at 22:43 +0100, Tanguy Eric wrote: > > I sent this message to fedora-list at redhat.com but i had no reaction so i > > try also the devel one because i find this is problem we have to solve > > for the core and extras merge, no ? > > No. > > > I'm tired to have problems with rt2500 driver at each new fedora kernel > > release because the versionning seems to not follow standards : > > http://rt2x00.serialmonkey.com/phpBB2/viewtopic.php?t=2965 > > > > What do you think about this ? > > The solution is to get the drivers into the upstream kernel. Period. > > josh > Ok but this driver will be into upstream kernel but not before 2.6.21 at least AFAIK so what can i do before this time ? Eric From a.badger at gmail.com Mon Jan 22 22:07:17 2007 From: a.badger at gmail.com (Toshio Kuratomi) Date: Mon, 22 Jan 2007 14:07:17 -0800 Subject: New VCS Choice; SCM SIG In-Reply-To: <20070119092032.GN3978@petra.dvoda.cz> References: <1169160615.14225.127.camel@localhost.localdomain> <20070119092032.GN3978@petra.dvoda.cz> Message-ID: <1169503637.6687.94.camel@localhost.localdomain> On Fri, 2007-01-19 at 10:20 +0100, Karel Zak wrote: > On Thu, Jan 18, 2007 at 02:50:15PM -0800, Toshio Kuratomi wrote: > > == Workflow for the VCS == > > * jcollie has started a page that abstracts our current workflow with > > cvs-dist: > > http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Infrastructure/VersionControl/Operations > > This is very minimalist list of operations, I also use: > > * diff between branches Can you give an example commandline of this? I'm not quite sure what it means in the context of the package SCM. > * diff between actual non-commited code and the latest commit Added. > * check log of changes Added. > We will see more typical operations when more people will contribute > to same source code (package), like > > * remove patch Added as Add/remove file. > * test new patches in private topic branch(s) > * merge branches Added these two although my impression is that it wouldn't be very easy to do this with cvs. Are you doing this with our current SCM or is it something you want to make sure is made easy when we change to a new SCM? Thanks, Toshio -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: signature.asc Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 189 bytes Desc: This is a digitally signed message part URL: From eric.tanguy at univ-nantes.fr Mon Jan 22 22:04:37 2007 From: eric.tanguy at univ-nantes.fr (Tanguy Eric) Date: Mon, 22 Jan 2007 23:04:37 +0100 Subject: kernel versionning problem In-Reply-To: <45B52FFE.5080307@fedoraproject.org> References: <1169502233.4812.3.camel@bureau.maison> <45B52FFE.5080307@fedoraproject.org> Message-ID: <1169503477.4812.9.camel@bureau.maison> Le mardi 23 janvier 2007 ? 03:13 +0530, Rahul Sundaram a ?crit : > Tanguy Eric wrote: > > I sent this message to fedora-list at redhat.com but i had no reaction so i > > try also the devel one because i find this is problem we have to solve > > for the core and extras merge, no ? > > > > I'm tired to have problems with rt2500 driver at each new fedora kernel > > release because the versionning seems to not follow standards : > > http://rt2x00.serialmonkey.com/phpBB2/viewtopic.php?t=2965 > > > > What do you think about this ? > > > > Someone have similar problems with other modules ? > > This one is going all the way up to Linus since apparently he prefers > the current naming. See > http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Extras/SteeringCommittee/Meeting-20070111 > for the glorious details. > > Rahul > Ok but my problem is not really the kernel name but how a driver can detect correctly the kernel version and eventually the backported patch to compile fine ... Eric From sundaram at fedoraproject.org Mon Jan 22 22:13:51 2007 From: sundaram at fedoraproject.org (Rahul Sundaram) Date: Tue, 23 Jan 2007 03:43:51 +0530 Subject: kernel versionning problem In-Reply-To: <1169503477.4812.9.camel@bureau.maison> References: <1169502233.4812.3.camel@bureau.maison> <45B52FFE.5080307@fedoraproject.org> <1169503477.4812.9.camel@bureau.maison> Message-ID: <45B5371F.6000502@fedoraproject.org> Tanguy Eric wrote: > Le mardi 23 janvier 2007 ? 03:13 +0530, Rahul Sundaram a ?crit : >> Tanguy Eric wrote: >>> I sent this message to fedora-list at redhat.com but i had no reaction so i >>> try also the devel one because i find this is problem we have to solve >>> for the core and extras merge, no ? >>> >>> I'm tired to have problems with rt2500 driver at each new fedora kernel >>> release because the versionning seems to not follow standards : >>> http://rt2x00.serialmonkey.com/phpBB2/viewtopic.php?t=2965 >>> >>> What do you think about this ? >>> >>> Someone have similar problems with other modules ? >> This one is going all the way up to Linus since apparently he prefers >> the current naming. See >> http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Extras/SteeringCommittee/Meeting-20070111 >> for the glorious details. >> >> Rahul >> > Ok but my problem is not really the kernel name but how a driver can > detect correctly the kernel version and eventually the backported patch > to compile fine ... Yes. The name of the kernel is directly related to that issue. Rahul From jwboyer at jdub.homelinux.org Mon Jan 22 22:20:44 2007 From: jwboyer at jdub.homelinux.org (Josh Boyer) Date: Mon, 22 Jan 2007 22:20:44 +0000 Subject: New VCS Choice; SCM SIG In-Reply-To: <1169503637.6687.94.camel@localhost.localdomain> References: <1169160615.14225.127.camel@localhost.localdomain> <20070119092032.GN3978@petra.dvoda.cz> <1169503637.6687.94.camel@localhost.localdomain> Message-ID: <1169504444.11081.60.camel@zod.rchland.ibm.com> On Mon, 2007-01-22 at 14:07 -0800, Toshio Kuratomi wrote: > On Fri, 2007-01-19 at 10:20 +0100, Karel Zak wrote: > > On Thu, Jan 18, 2007 at 02:50:15PM -0800, Toshio Kuratomi wrote: > > > == Workflow for the VCS == > > > * jcollie has started a page that abstracts our current workflow with > > > cvs-dist: > > > http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Infrastructure/VersionControl/Operations > > > > This is very minimalist list of operations, I also use: > > > > * diff between branches > Can you give an example commandline of this? I'm not quite sure what it > means in the context of the package SCM. cvs diff -Nau -r branch_1 -r branch_2 foo.c git diff branch_1..branch_2 (sorry I don't know hg) > > * test new patches in private topic branch(s) > > * merge branches > Added these two although my impression is that it wouldn't be very easy > to do this with cvs. Are you doing this with our current SCM or is it > something you want to make sure is made easy when we change to a new > SCM? cvs co -r branch_1 foo.c; cvs up -dP -j branch_2 foo.c; cvs commit git checkout branch_1; git pull . branch_2 josh From tibbs at math.uh.edu Mon Jan 22 23:19:24 2007 From: tibbs at math.uh.edu (Jason L Tibbitts III) Date: 22 Jan 2007 17:19:24 -0600 Subject: kernel versionning problem In-Reply-To: <1169502233.4812.3.camel@bureau.maison> References: <1169502233.4812.3.camel@bureau.maison> Message-ID: >>>>> "TE" == Tanguy Eric writes: TE> http://rt2x00.serialmonkey.com/phpBB2/viewtopic.php?t=2965 Blah, blah, only breaks on Fedora, blah blah, Fedora people don't know how to behave. So exactly what is it that Fedora is doing wrong here? - J< From cra at WPI.EDU Tue Jan 23 00:12:29 2007 From: cra at WPI.EDU (Chuck Anderson) Date: Mon, 22 Jan 2007 19:12:29 -0500 Subject: kernel versionning problem In-Reply-To: References: <1169502233.4812.3.camel@bureau.maison> Message-ID: <20070123001228.GD28558@angus.ind.WPI.EDU> On Mon, Jan 22, 2007 at 05:19:24PM -0600, Jason L Tibbitts III wrote: > >>>>> "TE" == Tanguy Eric writes: > > TE> http://rt2x00.serialmonkey.com/phpBB2/viewtopic.php?t=2965 > > Blah, blah, only breaks on Fedora, blah blah, Fedora people don't know > how to behave. > > So exactly what is it that Fedora is doing wrong here? The problem is that the rt2x00 driver assumes that there is an API difference between kernels < 2.6.20 and >= 2.6.20. In truth there is no guarantee of a stable API at all in Linux, and that keying off LINUX_VERSION_CODE is next to useless. If you patch the kernel at all, what version does it become? Perhaps one API changed to be like Linus' 2.6.20 due to your patch(es), but another API didn't change and is still like Linus' 2.6.19. An out-of-tree driver that keys off LINUX_VERSION_CODE can never get this right. You could change the version code to fix one out-of-tree driver, but then that breaks the other. From tibbs at math.uh.edu Tue Jan 23 00:19:52 2007 From: tibbs at math.uh.edu (Jason L Tibbitts III) Date: 22 Jan 2007 18:19:52 -0600 Subject: kernel versionning problem In-Reply-To: <20070123001228.GD28558@angus.ind.WPI.EDU> References: <1169502233.4812.3.camel@bureau.maison> <20070123001228.GD28558@angus.ind.WPI.EDU> Message-ID: >>>>> "CA" == Chuck Anderson writes: CA> The problem is that the rt2x00 driver assumes that there is an API CA> difference between kernels < 2.6.20 and >= 2.6.20. I understand that. What I don't understand is what Fedora is supposedly doing wrong. It's not uncommon to see various people denigrating Fedora because it supposedly does something improper and breaks some piece of software. Generally this is because of the fast pace of development and because Fedora tends to pick up new bits like kernels and gcc releases before other distros. But occasionally you see the blather that was in the previously linked forum thread, where Fedora is denigrated for doing something, but nobody bothers to indicate just what it is doing or why it is wrong. I gather that someone wants the FC6 kernel to somehow identify itself as 2.6.20, even though it's not 2.6.20. It's a reasonable point of discussion when the topic is the release candidates, but here we're talking about 2.6.19 + bugfixes. - J< From jerone at gmail.com Mon Jan 22 18:38:47 2007 From: jerone at gmail.com (Jerone Young) Date: Mon, 22 Jan 2007 12:38:47 -0600 Subject: Inclusion of Grub 2 in FC7 ? In-Reply-To: <1169489873.3020.16.camel@sb-home.lan> References: <9f50a7a00701201547t50b2a758ocf77343515fa71e9@mail.gmail.com> <9f50a7a00701201904v1631647ai5e1f20e370048573@mail.gmail.com> <1169480456.27691.11.camel@aglarond.local> <200701221055.11756.jkeating@redhat.com> <1169489873.3020.16.camel@sb-home.lan> Message-ID: <9f50a7a00701221038m3533e5f5h469bdfd2f41fa69e@mail.gmail.com> I can take up this task. I'll put something together this week. Though it will be interesting to figure out a way so it does not conflict with current grub. This would be a good way to figure out how to get them to exist side by side. On 1/22/07, nodata wrote: > Am Montag, den 22.01.2007, 10:55 -0500 schrieb Jesse Keating: > > On Monday 22 January 2007 10:40, Jeremy Katz wrote: > > > If someone wants to submit packages, > > > > Note, these packages would need to NOT conflict with the existing grub. > > > > -- > > fedora-devel-list mailing list > > fedora-devel-list at redhat.com > > https://www.redhat.com/mailman/listinfo/fedora-devel-list > > Easy on the caps! :) > > -- > fedora-devel-list mailing list > fedora-devel-list at redhat.com > https://www.redhat.com/mailman/listinfo/fedora-devel-list > From jwboyer at jdub.homelinux.org Tue Jan 23 01:53:49 2007 From: jwboyer at jdub.homelinux.org (Josh Boyer) Date: Mon, 22 Jan 2007 19:53:49 -0600 Subject: kernel versionning problem In-Reply-To: References: <1169502233.4812.3.camel@bureau.maison> Message-ID: <20070123015349.GA25489@yoda.jdub.homelinux.org> On Mon, Jan 22, 2007 at 05:19:24PM -0600, Jason L Tibbitts III wrote: > >>>>> "TE" == Tanguy Eric writes: > > TE> http://rt2x00.serialmonkey.com/phpBB2/viewtopic.php?t=2965 > > Blah, blah, only breaks on Fedora, blah blah, Fedora people don't know > how to behave. > > So exactly what is it that Fedora is doing wrong here? Unless the comment in this link is wrong: http://rt2x00.serialmonkey.com/phpBB2/posting.php?mode=quote&p=18456&sid=3dcc6f1c6cdc74e8e06177ad8cc2c6f9 There is a bug in the driver anyway. Theoretically though, the driver is trying to use LINUX_VERSION_CODE to determine if the kernel version is 2.6.20 or greater so it can use struct work. The fedora kernel is 2.6.20-rc(something), but it munges the kernel version to be 2.6.19. If the driver were upstream, this wouldn't be an issue because such version checks wouldn't even be present. josh From jwboyer at jdub.homelinux.org Tue Jan 23 01:57:46 2007 From: jwboyer at jdub.homelinux.org (Josh Boyer) Date: Mon, 22 Jan 2007 19:57:46 -0600 Subject: kernel versionning problem In-Reply-To: <20070123001228.GD28558@angus.ind.WPI.EDU> References: <1169502233.4812.3.camel@bureau.maison> <20070123001228.GD28558@angus.ind.WPI.EDU> Message-ID: <20070123015746.GB25489@yoda.jdub.homelinux.org> On Mon, Jan 22, 2007 at 07:12:29PM -0500, Chuck Anderson wrote: > On Mon, Jan 22, 2007 at 05:19:24PM -0600, Jason L Tibbitts III wrote: > > >>>>> "TE" == Tanguy Eric writes: > > > > TE> http://rt2x00.serialmonkey.com/phpBB2/viewtopic.php?t=2965 > > > > Blah, blah, only breaks on Fedora, blah blah, Fedora people don't know > > how to behave. > > > > So exactly what is it that Fedora is doing wrong here? > > The problem is that the rt2x00 driver assumes that there is an API > difference between kernels < 2.6.20 and >= 2.6.20. In truth there is > no guarantee of a stable API at all in Linux, and that keying off > LINUX_VERSION_CODE is next to useless. If you patch the kernel at > all, what version does it become? Perhaps one API changed to be like > Linus' 2.6.20 due to your patch(es), but another API didn't change and > is still like Linus' 2.6.19. An out-of-tree driver that keys off > LINUX_VERSION_CODE can never get this right. You could change the > version code to fix one out-of-tree driver, but then that breaks the > other. Exactly. This is something external driver maintainers just have to deal with if their driver isn't upstream?. josh ? Have is said the word "upstream" enough in this thread? No? Repeat after me... "Upstream, Upstream, it's our way. Upstream, Upstream anything else will ruin your day."? ? I apologize for my crappy cheer. From a.badger at gmail.com Tue Jan 23 02:33:17 2007 From: a.badger at gmail.com (Toshio Kuratomi) Date: Mon, 22 Jan 2007 18:33:17 -0800 Subject: New VCS Choice; SCM SIG In-Reply-To: <1169504444.11081.60.camel@zod.rchland.ibm.com> References: <1169160615.14225.127.camel@localhost.localdomain> <20070119092032.GN3978@petra.dvoda.cz> <1169503637.6687.94.camel@localhost.localdomain> <1169504444.11081.60.camel@zod.rchland.ibm.com> Message-ID: <1169519597.6687.144.camel@localhost.localdomain> On Mon, 2007-01-22 at 22:20 +0000, Josh Boyer wrote: > On Mon, 2007-01-22 at 14:07 -0800, Toshio Kuratomi wrote: > > On Fri, 2007-01-19 at 10:20 +0100, Karel Zak wrote: > > > * diff between branches > > Can you give an example commandline of this? I'm not quite sure what it > > means in the context of the package SCM. > > cvs diff -Nau -r branch_1 -r branch_2 foo.c > > git diff branch_1..branch_2 > > > > * test new patches in private topic branch(s) > > > * merge branches > > Added these two although my impression is that it wouldn't be very easy > > to do this with cvs. Are you doing this with our current SCM or is it > > something you want to make sure is made easy when we change to a new > > SCM? > > cvs co -r branch_1 foo.c; cvs up -dP -j branch_2 foo.c; cvs commit > > git checkout branch_1; git pull . branch_2 Right but we're talking at cross-purposes. What I mean is, are we using these now with the fedora-extras and fedora-core dist-cvs? If so, what are the commands you're running to do that? Although we talk about branches with dist-cvs, there's no cvs branches in the repository that I'm aware of. So I'm wondering if Karel has some commands that he's using now or if this is a "If we use real branches in the next SCM, it'll give us the ability to do operation Xyz in a better way." -Toshio -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: signature.asc Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 189 bytes Desc: This is a digitally signed message part URL: From jwboyer at jdub.homelinux.org Tue Jan 23 02:58:03 2007 From: jwboyer at jdub.homelinux.org (Josh Boyer) Date: Mon, 22 Jan 2007 20:58:03 -0600 Subject: kernel versionning problem In-Reply-To: <20070123015349.GA25489@yoda.jdub.homelinux.org> References: <1169502233.4812.3.camel@bureau.maison> <20070123015349.GA25489@yoda.jdub.homelinux.org> Message-ID: <20070123025803.GA25972@yoda.jdub.homelinux.org> On Mon, Jan 22, 2007 at 07:53:49PM -0600, Josh Boyer wrote: > Theoretically though, the driver is trying to use LINUX_VERSION_CODE to > determine if the kernel version is 2.6.20 or greater so it can use struct > work. The fedora kernel is 2.6.20-rc(something), but it munges the kernel > version to be 2.6.19. Sorry, ignore this part. I missed that the specific problem was talking about FC-6. josh From mmcgrath at fedoraproject.org Tue Jan 23 03:08:08 2007 From: mmcgrath at fedoraproject.org (Mike McGrath) Date: Mon, 22 Jan 2007 21:08:08 -0600 Subject: New VCS Choice; SCM SIG In-Reply-To: <1169519597.6687.144.camel@localhost.localdomain> References: <1169160615.14225.127.camel@localhost.localdomain> <20070119092032.GN3978@petra.dvoda.cz> <1169503637.6687.94.camel@localhost.localdomain> <1169504444.11081.60.camel@zod.rchland.ibm.com> <1169519597.6687.144.camel@localhost.localdomain> Message-ID: <3237e4410701221908i228687dbrb75a98d5a28422ca@mail.gmail.com> On 1/22/07, Toshio Kuratomi wrote: > > Right but we're talking at cross-purposes. What I mean is, are we using > these now with the fedora-extras and fedora-core dist-cvs? If so, what > are the commands you're running to do that? > > Although we talk about branches with dist-cvs, there's no cvs branches > in the repository that I'm aware of. So I'm wondering if Karel has some > commands that he's using now or if this is a "If we use real branches in > the next SCM, it'll give us the ability to do operation Xyz in a better > way." We should also keep in mind that we can do whatever we want to with this SCM. If we discover a method of version control that is excellent for package management, lets use it. I guess what I'm trying to say, without sounding like "that guy" is.... Lets think out of the box and not be afraid to try new things. :: barf :: -Mike From jwboyer at jdub.homelinux.org Tue Jan 23 03:07:22 2007 From: jwboyer at jdub.homelinux.org (Josh Boyer) Date: Mon, 22 Jan 2007 21:07:22 -0600 Subject: New VCS Choice; SCM SIG In-Reply-To: <1169519597.6687.144.camel@localhost.localdomain> References: <1169160615.14225.127.camel@localhost.localdomain> <20070119092032.GN3978@petra.dvoda.cz> <1169503637.6687.94.camel@localhost.localdomain> <1169504444.11081.60.camel@zod.rchland.ibm.com> <1169519597.6687.144.camel@localhost.localdomain> Message-ID: <20070123030722.GB25972@yoda.jdub.homelinux.org> On Mon, Jan 22, 2007 at 06:33:17PM -0800, Toshio Kuratomi wrote: > Right but we're talking at cross-purposes. What I mean is, are we using > these now with the fedora-extras and fedora-core dist-cvs? If so, what > are the commands you're running to do that? > > Although we talk about branches with dist-cvs, there's no cvs branches > in the repository that I'm aware of. So I'm wondering if Karel has some > commands that he's using now or if this is a "If we use real branches in > the next SCM, it'll give us the ability to do operation Xyz in a better > way." Well, there's nothing to really prevent someone from using a branch for private development. The buildsys won't build off of it, but you can commit stuff to a branch if you'd like. And of course, there's also the tagging we _do_ use. Which is similar to a CVS branch. You can actually do the merge command using tag names too. I can see some use cases for using branching with git, simply because branches are trivial to create and work with. josh From tibbs at math.uh.edu Tue Jan 23 04:12:05 2007 From: tibbs at math.uh.edu (Jason L Tibbitts III) Date: 22 Jan 2007 22:12:05 -0600 Subject: New VCS Choice; SCM SIG In-Reply-To: <20070123030722.GB25972@yoda.jdub.homelinux.org> References: <1169160615.14225.127.camel@localhost.localdomain> <20070119092032.GN3978@petra.dvoda.cz> <1169503637.6687.94.camel@localhost.localdomain> <1169504444.11081.60.camel@zod.rchland.ibm.com> <1169519597.6687.144.camel@localhost.localdomain> <20070123030722.GB25972@yoda.jdub.homelinux.org> Message-ID: >>>>> "JB" == Josh Boyer writes: JB> I can see some use cases for using branching with git, simply JB> because branches are trivial to create and work with. I would really like to be able to create a branch within one of our "fake release branches" (the "FC-6" or "devel" directories) that gets built and pushed to a separate repository. In the simplest sense, I could make a "testing" branch that gets built instead of the main branch and pushed to the -testing repository instead of the main one. But perhaps I'm thinking about this in the wrong way, and with the distributed SCMs there's probably a better way to do that kind of thing. - J< From bruno at wolff.to Tue Jan 23 04:21:21 2007 From: bruno at wolff.to (Bruno Wolff III) Date: Mon, 22 Jan 2007 22:21:21 -0600 Subject: Inclusion of Grub 2 in FC7 ? In-Reply-To: <9f50a7a00701221038m3533e5f5h469bdfd2f41fa69e@mail.gmail.com> References: <9f50a7a00701201547t50b2a758ocf77343515fa71e9@mail.gmail.com> <9f50a7a00701201904v1631647ai5e1f20e370048573@mail.gmail.com> <1169480456.27691.11.camel@aglarond.local> <200701221055.11756.jkeating@redhat.com> <1169489873.3020.16.camel@sb-home.lan> <9f50a7a00701221038m3533e5f5h469bdfd2f41fa69e@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <20070123042121.GA7926@wolff.to> On Mon, Jan 22, 2007 at 12:38:47 -0600, Jerone Young wrote: > I can take up this task. I'll put something together this week. Though > it will be interesting to figure out a way so it does not conflict > with current grub. This would be a good way to figure out how to get > them to exist side by side. I would think that using something like /boot/grub2 instead of /boot/grub for config files and naming the executable /sbin/grub2 instead of /sbin/grub would work OK. Once you do a set up with one of the grubs, that one will be used for booting, and there isn't a lot you can do about that. The disadvantage of doing this is that down the road you will probably want to rename grub2 as grub and there will be some pain realted to that. From jlb17 at duke.edu Tue Jan 23 04:51:04 2007 From: jlb17 at duke.edu (Joshua Baker-LePain) Date: Mon, 22 Jan 2007 23:51:04 -0500 (EST) Subject: FC6, 2.6.19-1.2895, and suspend Message-ID: It seems that the the upgrade to 2.6.19 has killed suspend for some folks on FC6 (BZ #223731). On my Thinkpad Z61t, the panel goes dark and then the moon symbol starts blinking and never stops (I have to hard reset it). The last entry in the log is: kernel: Disabling non-boot CPUs ... For grins, I tried the PAE kernel, but it appears to just ignore pm-suspend. What other information would be helpful in tracking this down? Thanks. -- Joshua Baker-LePain Department of Biomedical Engineering Duke University From naoki at valuecommerce.com Tue Jan 23 04:58:01 2007 From: naoki at valuecommerce.com (Naoki) Date: Tue, 23 Jan 2007 13:58:01 +0900 Subject: xen images gone from rawhide. Message-ID: <1169528281.24378.1.camel@dragon.valuecommerce.ne.jp> http://redhat.download.fedoraproject.org/pub/fedora/linux/core/development/x86_64//os/images/xen doesn't exist. Is he coming back? Sorry I had a flick through devel-list archives but didn't see a matching subject. From jerone at gmail.com Tue Jan 23 04:58:59 2007 From: jerone at gmail.com (Jerone Young) Date: Mon, 22 Jan 2007 22:58:59 -0600 Subject: Inclusion of Grub 2 in FC7 ? In-Reply-To: <20070123042121.GA7926@wolff.to> References: <9f50a7a00701201547t50b2a758ocf77343515fa71e9@mail.gmail.com> <9f50a7a00701201904v1631647ai5e1f20e370048573@mail.gmail.com> <1169480456.27691.11.camel@aglarond.local> <200701221055.11756.jkeating@redhat.com> <1169489873.3020.16.camel@sb-home.lan> <9f50a7a00701221038m3533e5f5h469bdfd2f41fa69e@mail.gmail.com> <20070123042121.GA7926@wolff.to> Message-ID: <9f50a7a00701222058p6b7c940bp5b1ab7f107b2b55c@mail.gmail.com> This shouldn't be too big of a deal using the grub2 name. Down the road you can just make a symlink to grub2 that is named grub. Currently I think there just needs to be a migration path to grub2. Hopefully if it can go into FC 7 it can begin the migration. On 1/22/07, Bruno Wolff III wrote: > On Mon, Jan 22, 2007 at 12:38:47 -0600, > Jerone Young wrote: > > I can take up this task. I'll put something together this week. Though > > it will be interesting to figure out a way so it does not conflict > > with current grub. This would be a good way to figure out how to get > > them to exist side by side. > > I would think that using something like /boot/grub2 instead of /boot/grub > for config files and naming the executable /sbin/grub2 instead of > /sbin/grub would work OK. Once you do a set up with one of the grubs, > that one will be used for booting, and there isn't a lot you can do about > that. > > The disadvantage of doing this is that down the road you will probably > want to rename grub2 as grub and there will be some pain realted to that. > From naoki at valuecommerce.com Tue Jan 23 05:23:17 2007 From: naoki at valuecommerce.com (Naoki) Date: Tue, 23 Jan 2007 14:23:17 +0900 Subject: "yum update" failure and resulting cleanup headaches. Message-ID: <1169529797.24378.14.camel@dragon.valuecommerce.ne.jp> This question seems to come up a lot. And the fedora-list usually has somebody asking how to recover from it. When 'yum' fails for whatever reason there will be some part of the 'cleanup' phase left undone. At which point the manual repair of the RPM DB needs to take place, a long and tedious task. At best even if you have the procedure as a (almost) single command line, it can be annoying. Any official plans to have yum gracefully recover from a failed update? -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From a.badger at gmail.com Tue Jan 23 05:46:38 2007 From: a.badger at gmail.com (Toshio Kuratomi) Date: Mon, 22 Jan 2007 21:46:38 -0800 Subject: New VCS Choice; SCM SIG In-Reply-To: <20070123030722.GB25972@yoda.jdub.homelinux.org> References: <1169160615.14225.127.camel@localhost.localdomain> <20070119092032.GN3978@petra.dvoda.cz> <1169503637.6687.94.camel@localhost.localdomain> <1169504444.11081.60.camel@zod.rchland.ibm.com> <1169519597.6687.144.camel@localhost.localdomain> <20070123030722.GB25972@yoda.jdub.homelinux.org> Message-ID: <1169531198.6687.179.camel@localhost.localdomain> On Mon, 2007-01-22 at 21:07 -0600, Josh Boyer wrote: > On Mon, Jan 22, 2007 at 06:33:17PM -0800, Toshio Kuratomi wrote: > > > Right but we're talking at cross-purposes. What I mean is, are we using > > these now with the fedora-extras and fedora-core dist-cvs? If so, what > > are the commands you're running to do that? > > > > Although we talk about branches with dist-cvs, there's no cvs branches > > in the repository that I'm aware of. So I'm wondering if Karel has some > > commands that he's using now or if this is a "If we use real branches in > > the next SCM, it'll give us the ability to do operation Xyz in a better > > way." > > Well, there's nothing to really prevent someone from using a branch for > private development. The buildsys won't build off of it, but you can > commit stuff to a branch if you'd like. And of course, there's also the > tagging we _do_ use. Which is similar to a CVS branch. You can actually > do the merge command using tag names too. > > I can see some use cases for using branching with git, simply because > branches are trivial to create and work with. > Yeah -- branches in subversion and bazaar are trivial, easy to use, and space efficient as well. I would much rather work with their branches than cvs's "sticky tags", though, which is the barrier I see to using private branches and "$SCM merge devel FC-6" with cvs. I would be very interested in knowing if Karel or anyone else is using cvs to do these things now and would like to have it easier to use or if it's a feature they don't use within the package-SCM but would like to see be easy to use in the new system. (And that was a leading question -- the alternative: "I use it now and it's filling all my branching needs handily" would also be a good data point.) -Toshio -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: signature.asc Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 189 bytes Desc: This is a digitally signed message part URL: From rc040203 at freenet.de Tue Jan 23 05:59:03 2007 From: rc040203 at freenet.de (Ralf Corsepius) Date: Tue, 23 Jan 2007 06:59:03 +0100 Subject: New VCS Choice; SCM SIG In-Reply-To: <1169531198.6687.179.camel@localhost.localdomain> References: <1169160615.14225.127.camel@localhost.localdomain> <20070119092032.GN3978@petra.dvoda.cz> <1169503637.6687.94.camel@localhost.localdomain> <1169504444.11081.60.camel@zod.rchland.ibm.com> <1169519597.6687.144.camel@localhost.localdomain> <20070123030722.GB25972@yoda.jdub.homelinux.org> <1169531198.6687.179.camel@localhost.localdomain> Message-ID: <1169531943.6751.25.camel@mccallum.corsepiu.local> On Mon, 2007-01-22 at 21:46 -0800, Toshio Kuratomi wrote: > On Mon, 2007-01-22 at 21:07 -0600, Josh Boyer wrote: > > On Mon, Jan 22, 2007 at 06:33:17PM -0800, Toshio Kuratomi wrote: > > > > > Right but we're talking at cross-purposes. What I mean is, are we using > > > these now with the fedora-extras and fedora-core dist-cvs? If so, what > > > are the commands you're running to do that? > > > > > > Although we talk about branches with dist-cvs, there's no cvs branches > > > in the repository that I'm aware of. So I'm wondering if Karel has some > > > commands that he's using now or if this is a "If we use real branches in > > > the next SCM, it'll give us the ability to do operation Xyz in a better > > > way." > > > > Well, there's nothing to really prevent someone from using a branch for > > private development. The buildsys won't build off of it, but you can > > commit stuff to a branch if you'd like. And of course, there's also the > > tagging we _do_ use. Which is similar to a CVS branch. You can actually > > do the merge command using tag names too. > > > > I can see some use cases for using branching with git, simply because > > branches are trivial to create and work with. > > > Yeah -- branches in subversion and bazaar are trivial, How comes you consider branches in CVS to be more complex? I for one (Many year's of CVS power-usage), have never found subversion branches easy to use (I've never used bazaar nor git). Ralf From a.badger at gmail.com Tue Jan 23 06:09:07 2007 From: a.badger at gmail.com (Toshio Kuratomi) Date: Mon, 22 Jan 2007 22:09:07 -0800 Subject: New VCS Choice; SCM SIG In-Reply-To: References: <1169160615.14225.127.camel@localhost.localdomain> <20070119092032.GN3978@petra.dvoda.cz> <1169503637.6687.94.camel@localhost.localdomain> <1169504444.11081.60.camel@zod.rchland.ibm.com> <1169519597.6687.144.camel@localhost.localdomain> <20070123030722.GB25972@yoda.jdub.homelinux.org> Message-ID: <1169532547.6687.195.camel@localhost.localdomain> On Mon, 2007-01-22 at 22:12 -0600, Jason L Tibbitts III wrote: > >>>>> "JB" == Josh Boyer writes: > > JB> I can see some use cases for using branching with git, simply > JB> because branches are trivial to create and work with. > > I would really like to be able to create a branch within one of our > "fake release branches" (the "FC-6" or "devel" directories) that gets > built and pushed to a separate repository. In the simplest sense, I > could make a "testing" branch that gets built instead of the main > branch and pushed to the -testing repository instead of the main one. > I see a couple steps here: 1) Create a new branch. 2) Associate the branch with another repository for building and packages to land. Added this as: Branch and build for alternate repositories (ex: testing) > But perhaps I'm thinking about this in the wrong way, and with the > distributed SCMs there's probably a better way to do that kind of > thing. There are multiple ways that this could be done. If we have the resources, I'd probably advocate letting package maintainers create a branch in the repository. Then in the packageDB, assign that branch to a different collection (where a collection like "Fedora Testing 6" would search for packages in "Fedora Core 6" if they weren't in FT6.) You could also make the repositories you build against and the repositories the package lands in separate but that might be going a bit too far. Perhaps collection owners would have control of what the branch name should be to build for their collection. -Toshio -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: signature.asc Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 189 bytes Desc: This is a digitally signed message part URL: From a.badger at gmail.com Tue Jan 23 06:27:04 2007 From: a.badger at gmail.com (Toshio Kuratomi) Date: Mon, 22 Jan 2007 22:27:04 -0800 Subject: New VCS Choice; SCM SIG In-Reply-To: <1169531943.6751.25.camel@mccallum.corsepiu.local> References: <1169160615.14225.127.camel@localhost.localdomain> <20070119092032.GN3978@petra.dvoda.cz> <1169503637.6687.94.camel@localhost.localdomain> <1169504444.11081.60.camel@zod.rchland.ibm.com> <1169519597.6687.144.camel@localhost.localdomain> <20070123030722.GB25972@yoda.jdub.homelinux.org> <1169531198.6687.179.camel@localhost.localdomain> <1169531943.6751.25.camel@mccallum.corsepiu.local> Message-ID: <1169533624.6687.203.camel@localhost.localdomain> On Tue, 2007-01-23 at 06:59 +0100, Ralf Corsepius wrote: > On Mon, 2007-01-22 at 21:46 -0800, Toshio Kuratomi wrote: > > On Mon, 2007-01-22 at 21:07 -0600, Josh Boyer wrote: > > > On Mon, Jan 22, 2007 at 06:33:17PM -0800, Toshio Kuratomi wrote: > > > > > > > Right but we're talking at cross-purposes. What I mean is, are we using > > > > these now with the fedora-extras and fedora-core dist-cvs? If so, what > > > > are the commands you're running to do that? > > > > > > > > Although we talk about branches with dist-cvs, there's no cvs branches > > > > in the repository that I'm aware of. So I'm wondering if Karel has some > > > > commands that he's using now or if this is a "If we use real branches in > > > > the next SCM, it'll give us the ability to do operation Xyz in a better > > > > way." > > > > > > Well, there's nothing to really prevent someone from using a branch for > > > private development. The buildsys won't build off of it, but you can > > > commit stuff to a branch if you'd like. And of course, there's also the > > > tagging we _do_ use. Which is similar to a CVS branch. You can actually > > > do the merge command using tag names too. > > > > > > I can see some use cases for using branching with git, simply because > > > branches are trivial to create and work with. > > > > > Yeah -- branches in subversion and bazaar are trivial, > How comes you consider branches in CVS to be more complex? > > I for one (Many year's of CVS power-usage), have never found subversion > branches easy to use (I've never used bazaar nor git). > cvs doesn't separate the concept of tags and branches. It also works on individual files rather than whole trees. It could just be a limitation of my brain but those two things made branches a lot harder for me to understand in cvs. -Toshio -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: signature.asc Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 189 bytes Desc: This is a digitally signed message part URL: From a.badger at gmail.com Tue Jan 23 06:30:21 2007 From: a.badger at gmail.com (Toshio Kuratomi) Date: Mon, 22 Jan 2007 22:30:21 -0800 Subject: New VCS Choice; SCM SIG In-Reply-To: <3237e4410701221908i228687dbrb75a98d5a28422ca@mail.gmail.com> References: <1169160615.14225.127.camel@localhost.localdomain> <20070119092032.GN3978@petra.dvoda.cz> <1169503637.6687.94.camel@localhost.localdomain> <1169504444.11081.60.camel@zod.rchland.ibm.com> <1169519597.6687.144.camel@localhost.localdomain> <3237e4410701221908i228687dbrb75a98d5a28422ca@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <1169533821.6687.207.camel@localhost.localdomain> On Mon, 2007-01-22 at 21:08 -0600, Mike McGrath wrote: > We should also keep in mind that we can do whatever we want to with > this SCM. If we discover a method of version control that is > excellent for package management, lets use it. I guess what I'm > trying to say, without sounding like "that guy" is.... Lets think out > of the box and not be afraid to try new things. +1 I'm sorry if I'm coming off as being against these because they are new. I'm all for them. When we come down to making decisions, I just want to make sure I know what things on the list are failings of dist-cvs so the design of the new system can make those functions easily available. -Toshio -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: signature.asc Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 189 bytes Desc: This is a digitally signed message part URL: From rc040203 at freenet.de Tue Jan 23 06:44:30 2007 From: rc040203 at freenet.de (Ralf Corsepius) Date: Tue, 23 Jan 2007 07:44:30 +0100 Subject: New VCS Choice; SCM SIG In-Reply-To: <1169533624.6687.203.camel@localhost.localdomain> References: <1169160615.14225.127.camel@localhost.localdomain> <20070119092032.GN3978@petra.dvoda.cz> <1169503637.6687.94.camel@localhost.localdomain> <1169504444.11081.60.camel@zod.rchland.ibm.com> <1169519597.6687.144.camel@localhost.localdomain> <20070123030722.GB25972@yoda.jdub.homelinux.org> <1169531198.6687.179.camel@localhost.localdomain> <1169531943.6751.25.camel@mccallum.corsepiu.local> <1169533624.6687.203.camel@localhost.localdomain> Message-ID: <1169534670.6751.39.camel@mccallum.corsepiu.local> On Mon, 2007-01-22 at 22:27 -0800, Toshio Kuratomi wrote: > On Tue, 2007-01-23 at 06:59 +0100, Ralf Corsepius wrote: > > On Mon, 2007-01-22 at 21:46 -0800, Toshio Kuratomi wrote: > > > On Mon, 2007-01-22 at 21:07 -0600, Josh Boyer wrote: > > > > On Mon, Jan 22, 2007 at 06:33:17PM -0800, Toshio Kuratomi wrote: > > > > > > > > > Right but we're talking at cross-purposes. What I mean is, are we using > > > > > these now with the fedora-extras and fedora-core dist-cvs? If so, what > > > > > are the commands you're running to do that? > > > > > > > > > > Although we talk about branches with dist-cvs, there's no cvs branches > > > > > in the repository that I'm aware of. So I'm wondering if Karel has some > > > > > commands that he's using now or if this is a "If we use real branches in > > > > > the next SCM, it'll give us the ability to do operation Xyz in a better > > > > > way." > > > > > > > > Well, there's nothing to really prevent someone from using a branch for > > > > private development. The buildsys won't build off of it, but you can > > > > commit stuff to a branch if you'd like. And of course, there's also the > > > > tagging we _do_ use. Which is similar to a CVS branch. You can actually > > > > do the merge command using tag names too. > > > > > > > > I can see some use cases for using branching with git, simply because > > > > branches are trivial to create and work with. > > > > > > > Yeah -- branches in subversion and bazaar are trivial, > > How comes you consider branches in CVS to be more complex? > > > > I for one (Many year's of CVS power-usage), have never found subversion > > branches easy to use (I've never used bazaar nor git). > > > cvs doesn't separate the concept of tags and branches. Right, this bloats the repos sizes on the server (svn pushes this bloat to the clients) and renders "branch removal" a pain on the server. > It also works on > individual files rather than whole trees. Right, but I don't see this as a disadvantage. It's a different working principle. > It could just be a limitation > of my brain but those two things made branches a lot harder for me to > understand in cvs. Well, on the client-side, branching is easy: cvs tag -b branch-tag cvs up -r branch-tag -dP Unlike with svn, diffing between branches and getting to know about branches (cvn log) is trivial. What I find arguable/questionable in FE's CVS-repos, is the way "FE-branches" have been implemented into it. They are implemented as separate directories instead of CVS-branches. If real CVS-branches had been used several details would have been much easier. In the early days of FE, I had been told the reason for this design decision had been AVCs, because CVS storing branches in files would prevent AVCs to be applicable. Ralf From bernie at develer.com Tue Jan 23 06:53:42 2007 From: bernie at develer.com (Bernardo Innocenti) Date: Tue, 23 Jan 2007 07:53:42 +0100 Subject: rawhide report: 20070120 changes In-Reply-To: <1169471448.3244.3.camel@perun.kabelta.loc> References: <200701201127.l0KBRwLc007330@hs20-bc2-6.build.redhat.com> <200701220721.23081.bernie@develer.com> <1169471448.3244.3.camel@perun.kabelta.loc> Message-ID: <45B5B0F6.5040609@develer.com> Tomas Mraz wrote: >> I've installed this update yesterday in the evening and today >> there were already rootkits and irc bots everywhere :) >> > Well it is not just you. And I am ashamed I didn't catch this problem > when reviewing changes in new upstream version. :( It won't allow anyone > to any account but only accounts with only two characters in passwd > field - like !! and similar. It is very serious anyway. Luckly, thanks to the "many eyes make all bugs shallow" it's been caught very quickly. Unfortunately, those eyeballs were those of several script kiddies :-))) > Should be fixed in pam-0.99.7.0-2.fc7. Confirmed. -- // Bernardo Innocenti - Develer S.r.l., R&D dept. \X/ http://www.develer.com/ From tmus at tmus.dk Tue Jan 23 07:56:28 2007 From: tmus at tmus.dk (Thomas M Steenholdt) Date: Tue, 23 Jan 2007 08:56:28 +0100 Subject: kernel versionning problem In-Reply-To: <45B5371F.6000502@fedoraproject.org> References: <1169502233.4812.3.camel@bureau.maison> <45B52FFE.5080307@fedoraproject.org> <1169503477.4812.9.camel@bureau.maison> <45B5371F.6000502@fedoraproject.org> Message-ID: Rahul Sundaram wrote: > Tanguy Eric wrote: >> Le mardi 23 janvier 2007 ? 03:13 +0530, Rahul Sundaram a ?crit : >>> Tanguy Eric wrote: >>>> I sent this message to fedora-list at redhat.com but i had no reaction >>>> so i >>>> try also the devel one because i find this is problem we have to solve >>>> for the core and extras merge, no ? >>>> >>>> I'm tired to have problems with rt2500 driver at each new fedora kernel >>>> release because the versionning seems to not follow standards : >>>> http://rt2x00.serialmonkey.com/phpBB2/viewtopic.php?t=2965 >>>> >>>> What do you think about this ? >>>> >>>> Someone have similar problems with other modules ? >>> This one is going all the way up to Linus since apparently he prefers >>> the current naming. See >>> http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Extras/SteeringCommittee/Meeting-20070111 >>> for the glorious details. >>> >>> Rahul >>> >> Ok but my problem is not really the kernel name but how a driver can >> detect correctly the kernel version and eventually the backported patch >> to compile fine ... > > Yes. The name of the kernel is directly related to that issue. > > Rahul > Besides, of course, the fact that different distros, which even may use the same naming conventions, includes a batch of dissimilar patches and .config options. Determining from a version-number alone, which of a few patch will apply cleanly to any non-vanilla kernel is virtually impossible. /Thomas From tmus at tmus.dk Tue Jan 23 07:59:28 2007 From: tmus at tmus.dk (Thomas M Steenholdt) Date: Tue, 23 Jan 2007 08:59:28 +0100 Subject: OT: Re: kernel versionning problem In-Reply-To: <20070123015746.GB25489@yoda.jdub.homelinux.org> References: <1169502233.4812.3.camel@bureau.maison> <20070123001228.GD28558@angus.ind.WPI.EDU> <20070123015746.GB25489@yoda.jdub.homelinux.org> Message-ID: Josh Boyer wrote: > On Mon, Jan 22, 2007 at 07:12:29PM -0500, Chuck Anderson wrote: >> On Mon, Jan 22, 2007 at 05:19:24PM -0600, Jason L Tibbitts III wrote: >>>>>>>> "TE" == Tanguy Eric writes: >>> TE> http://rt2x00.serialmonkey.com/phpBB2/viewtopic.php?t=2965 >>> >>> Blah, blah, only breaks on Fedora, blah blah, Fedora people don't know >>> how to behave. >>> >>> So exactly what is it that Fedora is doing wrong here? >> The problem is that the rt2x00 driver assumes that there is an API >> difference between kernels < 2.6.20 and >= 2.6.20. In truth there is >> no guarantee of a stable API at all in Linux, and that keying off >> LINUX_VERSION_CODE is next to useless. If you patch the kernel at >> all, what version does it become? Perhaps one API changed to be like >> Linus' 2.6.20 due to your patch(es), but another API didn't change and >> is still like Linus' 2.6.19. An out-of-tree driver that keys off >> LINUX_VERSION_CODE can never get this right. You could change the >> version code to fix one out-of-tree driver, but then that breaks the >> other. > > Exactly. This is something external driver maintainers just have to deal > with if their driver isn't upstream?. > > josh > > ? Have is said the word "upstream" enough in this thread? No? Repeat after > me... "Upstream, Upstream, it's our way. Upstream, Upstream anything else > will ruin your day."? > > ? I apologize for my crappy cheer. > Not crappy, but spot on ;-D /Thomas From luya_tfz at thefinalzone.com Tue Jan 23 09:06:13 2007 From: luya_tfz at thefinalzone.com (Luya Tshimbalanga) Date: Tue, 23 Jan 2007 04:06:13 -0500 Subject: xen images gone from rawhide. In-Reply-To: <1169528281.24378.1.camel@dragon.valuecommerce.ne.jp> References: <1169528281.24378.1.camel@dragon.valuecommerce.ne.jp> Message-ID: <1169543173.45b5d00570fbb@ssl.mecca.ca> Quoting Naoki : > http://redhat.download.fedoraproject.org/pub/fedora/linux/core/development/x86_64//os/images/xen > doesn't exist. Obviously a typo on that address. -- Luya Tshimbalanga Fedora Project contributor http://www.fedoraproject.org/wiki/LuyaTshimbalanga From luya_tfz at thefinalzone.com Tue Jan 23 09:14:11 2007 From: luya_tfz at thefinalzone.com (Luya Tshimbalanga) Date: Tue, 23 Jan 2007 04:14:11 -0500 Subject: xen images gone from rawhide. In-Reply-To: <1169543173.45b5d00570fbb@ssl.mecca.ca> References: <1169528281.24378.1.camel@dragon.valuecommerce.ne.jp> <1169543173.45b5d00570fbb@ssl.mecca.ca> Message-ID: <1169543651.45b5d1e3a91d3@ssl.mecca.ca> Quoting Luya Tshimbalanga : The address is incorrect and should be http://download.fedoraproject.org/pub/fedora/linux/core/development/x86_64//os/images/xen Xen directory is indeed not available. Perhaps it has been moved. -- Luya Tshimbalanga Fedora Project contributor http://www.fedoraproject.org/wiki/LuyaTshimbalanga From giallu at gmail.com Tue Jan 23 08:22:22 2007 From: giallu at gmail.com (Gianluca Sforna) Date: Tue, 23 Jan 2007 09:22:22 +0100 Subject: FC6, 2.6.19-1.2895, and suspend In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: On 1/23/07, Joshua Baker-LePain wrote: > It seems that the the upgrade to 2.6.19 has killed suspend for some folks > on FC6 (BZ #223731). On my Thinkpad Z61t, the panel goes dark and then > the moon symbol starts blinking and never stops (I have to hard reset it). > The last entry in the log is: > > kernel: Disabling non-boot CPUs ... > > For grins, I tried the PAE kernel, but it appears to just ignore > pm-suspend. What other information would be helpful in tracking this > down? > On my ASUS M6Ne suspend to disk (aka hibernate) is failing to actually turn off the PC after shutting down hda: this with _any_ FC6 kernel. Though I had the feature working in the FC5 timeframe. So a question for the QA guys: is there some infrastructure in place to diagnose stuff like this? I don't even know how to screen capture the last messages I'm seeing... From naoki at valuecommerce.com Tue Jan 23 09:34:07 2007 From: naoki at valuecommerce.com (Naoki) Date: Tue, 23 Jan 2007 18:34:07 +0900 Subject: xen images gone from rawhide. In-Reply-To: <1169543651.45b5d1e3a91d3@ssl.mecca.ca> References: <1169528281.24378.1.camel@dragon.valuecommerce.ne.jp> <1169543173.45b5d00570fbb@ssl.mecca.ca> <1169543651.45b5d1e3a91d3@ssl.mecca.ca> Message-ID: <1169544847.24378.89.camel@dragon.valuecommerce.ne.jp> On Tue, 2007-01-23 at 04:14 -0500, Luya Tshimbalanga wrote: > Quoting Luya Tshimbalanga : > > The address is incorrect and should be > http://download.fedoraproject.org/pub/fedora/linux/core/development/x86_64//os/images/xen > > Xen directory is indeed not available. Perhaps it has been moved. > -- There wouldn't seem to be anything wrong with the address. It's what virt-install is looking for and the same location under FC6 exists : RawHide - http://redhat.download.fedoraproject.org/pub/fedora/linux/core/development/x86_64//os/images/xen FC6 - http://redhat.download.fedoraproject.org/pub/fedora/linux/core/6/x86_64//os/images/xen So, if it has gone, which I suspect is the case because there wouldn't be any other logical location for it, then when is he coming back? From luya_tfz at thefinalzone.com Tue Jan 23 09:41:21 2007 From: luya_tfz at thefinalzone.com (Luya Tshimbalanga) Date: Tue, 23 Jan 2007 04:41:21 -0500 Subject: xen images gone from rawhide. In-Reply-To: <1169544847.24378.89.camel@dragon.valuecommerce.ne.jp> References: <1169528281.24378.1.camel@dragon.valuecommerce.ne.jp> <1169543173.45b5d00570fbb@ssl.mecca.ca> <1169543651.45b5d1e3a91d3@ssl.mecca.ca> <1169544847.24378.89.camel@dragon.valuecommerce.ne.jp> Message-ID: <1169545281.45b5d8410f4e7@ssl.mecca.ca> Quoting Naoki : > There wouldn't seem to be anything wrong with the address. It's what > virt-install is looking for and the same location under FC6 exists : > RawHide - > http://redhat.download.fedoraproject.org/pub/fedora/linux/core/6/x86_64//os/images/xen > > So, if it has gone, which I suspect is the case because there wouldn't > be any other logical location for it, then when is he coming back? > Could it be merge with pxeboot directory? http://mirror.hiwaay.net/redhat/fedora/linux/core/development/x86_64//os/images/pxeboot/ Maybe xen maintainer needs to be asked -- Luya Tshimbalanga Fedora Project contributor http://www.fedoraproject.org/wiki/LuyaTshimbalanga From markmc at redhat.com Tue Jan 23 10:24:24 2007 From: markmc at redhat.com (Mark McLoughlin) Date: Tue, 23 Jan 2007 10:24:24 +0000 Subject: xen images gone from rawhide. In-Reply-To: <1169543651.45b5d1e3a91d3@ssl.mecca.ca> References: <1169528281.24378.1.camel@dragon.valuecommerce.ne.jp> <1169543173.45b5d00570fbb@ssl.mecca.ca> <1169543651.45b5d1e3a91d3@ssl.mecca.ca> Message-ID: <1169547864.3033.10.camel@blaa> On Tue, 2007-01-23 at 04:14 -0500, Luya Tshimbalanga wrote: > The address is incorrect and should be > http://download.fedoraproject.org/pub/fedora/linux/core/development/x86_64//os/images/xen > > Xen directory is indeed not available. Perhaps it has been moved. Each time the kernel RPM is updated with a new version from upstream the Xen patch needs to be merged with the latest kernel. Sometimes that's a huge task and the -xen kernel is disabled while the merge is being worked on. This last happened in rawhide after the 2.6.18-1.2784.2.3.fc7 kernel ... there hasn't been a kernel-xen since. When the nightly tree is being built, if there's no kernel-xen package, then no xen installer images can be built. That's what you're seeing here. AFAIK, the xen-3.0.4 merge with 2.6.20 is almost there ... Cheers, Mark. From tmraz at redhat.com Tue Jan 23 10:45:07 2007 From: tmraz at redhat.com (Tomas Mraz) Date: Tue, 23 Jan 2007 11:45:07 +0100 Subject: rawhide report: 20070120 changes In-Reply-To: <200701221031.03733.jkeating@redhat.com> References: <200701201127.l0KBRwLc007330@hs20-bc2-6.build.redhat.com> <200701220721.23081.bernie@develer.com> <200701221509.l0MF9DbE015590@laptop13.inf.utfsm.cl> <200701221031.03733.jkeating@redhat.com> Message-ID: <1169549107.3244.22.camel@perun.kabelta.loc> On Mon, 2007-01-22 at 10:31 -0500, Jesse Keating wrote: > On Monday 22 January 2007 10:09, Horst H. von Brand wrote: > > Doesn't work. Just works. But only on i686, not x86_64. > > > > Somebody sneaked into postgres via ssh on an x86_64 here on the 21 (after > > the update)... > > You're running rawhide on an internet facing system? I'm really grateful that there are such brave people otherwise this flaw would stay unnoticed for much longer time. -- Tomas Mraz No matter how far down the wrong road you've gone, turn back. Turkish proverb From buildsys at redhat.com Tue Jan 23 11:12:41 2007 From: buildsys at redhat.com (buildsys at redhat.com) Date: Tue, 23 Jan 2007 06:12:41 -0500 Subject: rawhide report: 20070123 changes Message-ID: <200701231112.l0NBCfDl000911@hs20-bc2-6.build.redhat.com> Updated Packages: GConf2-2.16.0-4.fc7 ------------------- * Mon Jan 22 2007 Matthias Clasen - 2.16.0-4 - Own the /etc/gconf/schemas directory - Misc cleanups * Sun Oct 29 2006 Ray Strode - 2.16.0-3 - run autoreconf, so that configure gets updated before it generates libtool (so it doesn't just regenerate the original, broken libtool) (again bug 203813) ORBit2-2.14.5-2.fc7 ------------------- * Mon Jan 22 2007 Matthias Clasen - 2.14.5-2 - Re-add a static library that is needed by libbonobo * Mon Jan 22 2007 Matthias Clasen - 2.14.5-1 - Update to 2.14.5 anaconda-11.2.0.14-1 -------------------- * Mon Jan 22 2007 Jeremy Katz - 11.2.0.14-1 - Fix shell on tty2 with libncurses in /lib - Use echo icon theme - Add anaconda- to VCI (dcantrell, #220082) - Remove some no-longer-needed imports (clumens) - Require system-config-keyboard antlr-0:2.7.7-1jpp.1 -------------------- * Fri Jan 19 2007 Deepak Bhole 0:2.7.7-1jpp.1 - Upgrade to 2.7.7 - Resolve 172456 with patches from Vadim Nasardinov and Radu Greab at-spi-1.7.16-1.fc7 ------------------- * Mon Jan 22 2007 Matthias Clasen - 1.7.16-1 - Update to 1.7.16 atk-1.13.2-1.fc7 ---------------- * Mon Jan 22 2007 Matthias Clasen - 1.13.2-1 - Update to 1.13.2 control-center-1:2.17.90-1.fc7 ------------------------------ * Mon Jan 22 2007 Matthias Clasen - 2.17.90-1 - Update to 2.17.90 coreutils-6.7-3.fc7 ------------------- * Mon Jan 22 2007 Tim Waugh 6.7-3 - Make scriptlet unconditionally succeed (bug #223681). diffutils-2.8.1-16.fc7 ---------------------- * Mon Jan 22 2007 Tim Waugh 2.8.1-16 - Make scriptlet unconditionally succeed (bug #223683). eclipse-changelog-1:2.3.4-1.fc7 ------------------------------- * Mon Jan 22 2007 Kyu Lee 2.3.4-1 - Bumped to new version 2.3.4-1. * Wed Jan 17 2007 Kyu Lee 2.3.3-3 - For Fedora Extras review, cleaned up this file. Red Hat BZ#222365. eel2-2.17.90-1.fc7 ------------------ * Mon Jan 22 2007 Matthias Clasen - 2.17.90-1 - Update to 2.17.90 eog-2.17.90-1.fc7 ----------------- * Mon Jan 22 2007 Matthias Clasen - 2.17.90-1 - Update to 2.17.90 epiphany-2.17.90-1.fc7 ---------------------- * Tue Jan 23 2007 Matthias Clasen 2.17.90-1 - Update to 2.17.90 fetchmail-6.3.6-2.fc7 --------------------- * Mon Jan 22 2007 Miloslav Trmac - 6.3.6-2 - Let KPOP use PASS again Resolves: #223661 file-roller-2.17.90-1.fc7 ------------------------- * Mon Jan 22 2007 Matthias Clasen - 2.17.90-1 - Update to 2.17.90 gail-1.10.1-1.fc7 ----------------- * Mon Jan 22 2007 Matthias Clasen - 1.10.1-1 - Update to 1.10.1 gcalctool-5.9.11-1.fc7 ---------------------- * Mon Jan 22 2007 Matthias Clasen - 5.9.11-1 - Update to 5.9.11 gdm-1:2.17.6-1.fc7 ------------------ * Tue Jan 23 2007 Matthias Clasen - 1:2.17.6-1 - Update to 2.17.6 gedit-1:2.17.4-1.fc7 -------------------- * Tue Jan 23 2007 Matthias Clasen - 1:2.17.4-1 - Update to 2.17.4 gnome-games-1:2.17.90-2.fc7 --------------------------- * Mon Jan 22 2007 Matthias Clasen - 1:2.17.90-2 - Update extra data to 2.17.90 * Mon Jan 22 2007 Matthias Clasen - 1:2.17.90-1 - Update to 2.17.90 - Fix some directory ownership issues gnome-icon-theme-2.17.90-1.fc7 ------------------------------ gnome-media-2.17.90-1.fc7 ------------------------- * Mon Jan 22 2007 Matthias Clasen - 2.17.90-1 - Update to 2.17.90 gnome-power-manager-2.17.90-1.fc7 --------------------------------- * Tue Jan 23 2007 Matthias Clasen - 2.17.90-1 - Update to 2.17.90 gnome-screensaver-2.17.6-1.fc7 ------------------------------ * Mon Jan 22 2007 Matthias Clasen - 2.17.6-1 - Update to 2.17.6 gnome-session-2.17.90.1-1.fc7 ----------------------------- * Tue Jan 23 2007 Matthias Clasen - 2.17.90.1-1 - Update to 2.17.90.1 gnome-system-monitor-2.17.6-1.fc7 --------------------------------- * Mon Jan 22 2007 Matthias Clasen - 2.17.6-1 - Update to 2.17.6 gnome-terminal-2.17.90-1.fc7 ---------------------------- * Tue Jan 23 2007 Matthias Clasen - 2.17.90-1 - Update to 2.17.90 gnome-themes-2.17.90-1.fc7 -------------------------- * Mon Jan 22 2007 Matthias Clasen - 2.17.90-1 - Update to 2.17.90 gnome-utils-1:2.17.90-1.fc7 --------------------------- * Mon Jan 22 2007 Matthias Clasen - 2.17.90-1 - Update to 2.17.90 - Drop requires for gcalctool, gucharmap, zenity gnome-vfs2-2.17.90-1.fc7 ------------------------ * Mon Jan 22 2007 Matthias Clasen - 2.17.90-1 - Update to 2.17.90 grep-2.5.1-57.fc7 ----------------- * Mon Jan 22 2007 Tim Waugh 2.5.1-57 - Make preun scriptlet unconditionally succeed (bug #223697). gtk2-2.10.9-1.fc7 ----------------- * Mon Jan 22 2007 Matthias Clasen - 2.10.9-1 - Update to 2.10.9 gtk2-engines-2.9.2-1.fc7 ------------------------ * Mon Jan 22 2007 Matthias Clasen - 2.9.2-1 - Update to 2.9.2 hsqldb-1:1.8.0.7-2jpp.2 ----------------------- * Mon Jan 22 2007 Deepak Bhole 1:1.8.0.7-1jpp.2 - Bump release to build in rawhide * Mon Jan 22 2007 Deepak Bhole 1:1.8.0.7-1jpp.1 - Updgrade to 1.8.0.7 * Thu Nov 30 2006 Deepak Bhole 1:1.8.0.4-4jpp.2 - Bump release to build in rawhide jakarta-commons-digester-0:1.7-6jpp.1 ------------------------------------- * Mon Jan 22 2007 Vivek Lakshmanan - 0:1.7-6jpp.1 - Resynch with JPP release * Tue Jan 16 2007 Vivek Lakshmanan - 0:1.7-5jpp.3 - Update component-info.xml to add scm and tag attribute instead of a comment - Remove the export of a versioned jar * Tue Jan 09 2007 Vivek Lakshmanan - 0:1.7-5jpp.2 - Upgrade to latest from JPP and FC6 - Remove old RHUG specific trigger - Add support for conditional build of repolib package - Build repolib package by default libbonobo-2.17.90-1.fc7 ----------------------- * Mon Jan 22 2007 Matthias Clasen - 2.17.90-1 - Update to 2.17.90 * Mon Sep 04 2006 Matthias Clasen - 2.16.0-1.fc6 - Update to 2.16.0 - Require pkgconfig in the -devel package * Mon Aug 14 2006 Matthias Clasen - 2.15.3-1.fc6 - Update to 2.15.3 libbonoboui-2.17.90-1.fc7 ------------------------- * Mon Jan 22 2007 Matthias Clasen - 2.17.90-1 - Update to 2.17.90 libgcrypt-1.2.3-2 ----------------- * Mon Jan 22 2007 Nalin Dahyabhai - 1.2.3-2 - make use of install-info more failsafe (Ville Skytt??, #223705) libgnome-2.17.90-1.fc7 ---------------------- * Mon Jan 22 2007 Matthias Clasen - 2.17.90-1 - Update to 2.17.90 * Wed Jan 10 2007 Matthias Clasen - 2.17.3-1 - Update to 2.17.3 * Wed Jan 10 2007 Matthias Clasen - 2.17.2-1 - Update to 2.17.2 libgnomeprint22-2.17.90-1.fc7 ----------------------------- * Tue Jan 23 2007 Matthias Clasen - 2.17.90-1 - Update to 2.17.90 libgnomeprintui22-2.17.90-1.fc7 ------------------------------- * Tue Jan 23 2007 Matthias Clasen - 2.17.90-1 - Update to 2.17.90 * Sun Nov 12 2006 Matthias Clasen - 2.17.0-1 - Update to 2.17.0 - Don't ship static libraries - Require pkgconfig in the -devel package libgnomeui-2.17.90-1.fc7 ------------------------ * Mon Jan 22 2007 Matthias Clasen - 2.17.90-1 - Update to 2.17.90 libthai-0.1.7-5.fc7 ------------------- * Mon Jan 22 2007 Behdad Esfahbod 0.1.7-5 - Export _th_*_tbl symbols too. They are accessed by some of the macros. libvirt-0.1.11-1.fc7 -------------------- * Mon Jan 22 2007 Daniel Veillard 0.1.11-1.fc7 - finish inactive Xen domains support - memory leak fix - RelaxNG schemas for XML configs mc-1:4.6.1a-40.fc7 ------------------ * Mon Jan 22 2007 Jindrich Novy 4.6.1a-40 - update to new upstream CVS snapshot - drop upstreamed tmpcrash patch - reenable gpm support as it is now fixed (#168076) * Thu Jan 04 2007 Jindrich Novy 4.6.1a-39 - update to new CVS snapshot (fixes #220828) - update bindings again * Thu Dec 21 2006 Jindrich Novy 4.6.1a-38 - rebuild because of the %{_host} macro change (Related: #220273) nautilus-2.17.90-1.fc7 ---------------------- * Mon Jan 22 2007 Matthias Clasen - 2.17.90-1 - Update to 2.17.90 nautilus-cd-burner-2.17.6-1.fc7 ------------------------------- * Mon Jan 22 2007 Matthias Clasen - 2.17.6-1 - Update to 2.17.6 nspr-4.6.5-1 ------------ * Mon Jan 22 2007 Wan-Teh Chang - 4.6.5-1 - Update to 4.6.5 * Tue Jan 16 2007 Kai Engert - 4.6.4-2 - Include upstream patch to fix ipv6 support (rhbz 222554) * Tue Nov 21 2006 Kai Engert - 4.6.4-1 - Update to 4.6.4 nss-3.11.4-5.fc7 ---------------- * Tue Jan 09 2007 Bob Relyea - 3.11.4-4 - disable ECC, cleanout dead code * Tue Nov 28 2006 Kai Engert - 3.11.4-1 - Update to 3.11.4 * Thu Sep 14 2006 Kai Engert - 3.11.3-2 - Revert the attempt to require latest NSPR, as it is not yet available in the build infrastructure. orca-2.17.90-1.fc7 ------------------ * Mon Jan 22 2007 Matthias Clasen - 2.17.90-1 - Update to 2.17.90 pango-1.15.5-1.fc7 ------------------ * Mon Jan 22 2007 Behdad Esfahbod - 1.15.5-1 - Update to 1.15.5. - Drop upstreamed pango-1.15.4-slighthint.patch parted-1.8.2-3.fc7 ------------------ * Mon Jan 22 2007 David Cantrell - 1.8.2-3 - Remove BR for libtermcap-devel - Specifically preserve starting alignment of 0x800 on Windows Vista (see http://support.microsoft.com/kb/923332 for details) - Fix incorrect sector parameter used to initialize a new PedAlignment python-virtinst-0.100.0-1.fc7 ----------------------------- * Mon Jan 22 2007 Daniel P. Berrange - 0.100.0-1.fc7 - Updated to 0.100.0 which now uses libvirt inactive domain support needed to operate correctly against xen 3.0.4 * Mon Dec 18 2006 Daniel P. Berrange - 0.98.0-3.fc7 - don't traceback on invalid memory param (gcosta, #219270) - let the console come back quicker to help with HVM installs (#212024) redhat-artwork-5.0.8-4.fc7 -------------------------- * Mon Jan 22 2007 Matthias Clasen 5.0.8-4 - Switch default icon theme to Echo selinux-policy-2.5.1-4.fc7 -------------------------- * Wed Jan 10 2007 Dan Walsh 2.5.1-4 - Begin adding user confinement to targeted policy * Wed Jan 10 2007 Dan Walsh 2.5.1-2 - Fixes for prelink, ktalkd, netlabel * Mon Jan 08 2007 Dan Walsh 2.5.1-1 - Allow prelink when run from rpm to create tmp files Resolves: #221865 - Remove file_context for exportfs Resolves: #221181 - Allow spamassassin to create ~/.spamassissin Resolves: #203290 - Allow ssh access to the krb tickets - Allow sshd to change passwd - Stop newrole -l from working on non securetty Resolves: #200110 - Fixes to run prelink in MLS machine Resolves: #221233 - Allow spamassassin to read var_lib_t dir Resolves: #219234 spamassassin-3.1.7-5.fc7 ------------------------ * Mon Jan 22 2007 Warren Togami 3.1.7-5 - fix typo in logrotate.d (#223817) * Thu Jan 18 2007 Warren Togami - Options for RHEL4 * spamc/spamd cannot connect over IPv6 or SSL * sa-update is disabled The above functionality requires perl modules not included in RHEL4. You may still use them if you get those perl modules from elsewhere. RHEL5 ships these perl modules. * Thu Dec 14 2006 Warren Togami - 3.1.7-4 - add standardized sa-update cron script, disabled by default traceroute-1:2.0.3-1.fc7 ------------------------ * Mon Jan 22 2007 Martin Bacovsky - 2.0.3-1.fc7 - Resolves: #222577 - man page with execute bit - Resolves: #223784 - new traceroute breaks scripts - Resolves: #223795 - /bin/tcptraceroute symlink occludes alternate tcptraceroute package virt-manager-0.3.0-1.fc7 ------------------------ * Mon Jan 22 2007 Daniel P. Berrange = 0.100.0 and libvirt >= 0.1.11 for ianctive domain management capabilities - Add progress bars during VM creation stage - Improved reliability of VNC console - Updated translations again - Added destroy option to menu bar to forceably kill a guest - Visually differentiate allocated memory, from actual used memory on host - Validate file magic when restoring a guest from a savd file - Performance work on domain listing - Allow creation of non-sparse files - Fix backspace key in serial console vte-0.15.2-1.fc7 ---------------- * Mon Jan 22 2007 Behdad Esfahbod 0.15.2-1 - Update to 0.15.2 - Drop upstreamed vte-0.15.1-segfault.patch xen-3.0.4-2.fc7 --------------- * Mon Jan 22 2007 Daniel P. Berrange - 3.0.4-2 - Ensure the arch-x86 header files are included in xen-devel package - Bring back patch to move /var/xen/dump to /var/lib/xen/dump - Make /var/log/xen mode 0700 yum-3.1.0-2.fc7 --------------- * Mon Jan 22 2007 Jeremy Katz - 3.1.0-2 - fix typo in yum-updatesd * Mon Jan 22 2007 Jeremy Katz - 3.1.0-1 - update to 3.1.0 * Fri Dec 15 2006 Jeremy Katz - 3.0.1-6 - fix yum provides (#219716) zenity-2.17.90-1.fc7 -------------------- * Mon Jan 22 2007 Matthias Clasen - 2.17.90-1 - Update to 2.17.90 Broken deps for s390x ---------------------------------------------------------- anaconda - 11.2.0.14-1.s390x requires system-config-keyboard emacspeak - 25-1.fc7.noarch requires /usr/bin/tcl Broken deps for s390 ---------------------------------------------------------- anaconda - 11.2.0.14-1.s390 requires system-config-keyboard emacspeak - 25-1.fc7.noarch requires /usr/bin/tcl systemtap - 0.5.10-1.fc7.s390 requires kernel >= 0:2.6.9-11 systemtap-runtime - 0.5.10-1.fc7.s390 requires kernel >= 0:2.6.9-11 Broken deps for i386 ---------------------------------------------------------- emacspeak - 25-1.fc7.noarch requires /usr/bin/tcl Broken deps for ppc64 ---------------------------------------------------------- anaconda - 11.2.0.14-1.ppc64 requires system-config-keyboard emacspeak - 25-1.fc7.noarch requires /usr/bin/tcl Broken deps for ia64 ---------------------------------------------------------- emacspeak - 25-1.fc7.noarch requires /usr/bin/tcl Broken deps for x86_64 ---------------------------------------------------------- emacspeak - 25-1.fc7.noarch requires /usr/bin/tcl Broken deps for ppc ---------------------------------------------------------- emacspeak - 25-1.fc7.noarch requires /usr/bin/tcl From nicolas.mailhot at laposte.net Tue Jan 23 12:01:51 2007 From: nicolas.mailhot at laposte.net (Nicolas Mailhot) Date: Tue, 23 Jan 2007 13:01:51 +0100 (CET) Subject: rawhide report: 20070120 changes In-Reply-To: <1169549107.3244.22.camel@perun.kabelta.loc> References: <200701201127.l0KBRwLc007330@hs20-bc2-6.build.redhat.com> <200701220721.23081.bernie@develer.com> <200701221509.l0MF9DbE015590@laptop13.inf.utfsm.cl> <200701221031.03733.jkeating@redhat.com> <1169549107.3244.22.camel@perun.kabelta.loc> Message-ID: <26325.192.54.193.51.1169553711.squirrel@rousalka.dyndns.org> > On Mon, 2007-01-22 at 10:31 -0500, Jesse Keating wrote: >> On Monday 22 January 2007 10:09, Horst H. von Brand wrote: >> > Doesn't work. Just works. But only on i686, not x86_64. >> > >> > Somebody sneaked into postgres via ssh on an x86_64 here on the 21 >> (after >> > the update)... were you using additional security measures like pam_abl or denyhost there ? I wouldn't run ssh as-is anymore - too many entities do ssh scanning nowadays -- Nicolas Mailhot From Matt_Domsch at dell.com Tue Jan 23 12:14:54 2007 From: Matt_Domsch at dell.com (Matt Domsch) Date: Tue, 23 Jan 2007 06:14:54 -0600 Subject: dkms for fc7? In-Reply-To: <45B4B356.3000108@leemhuis.info> References: <20070119153556.7bf08b28@python3.es.egwn.lan> <45B4B356.3000108@leemhuis.info> Message-ID: <20070123121454.GA6421@lists.us.dell.com> On Mon, Jan 22, 2007 at 01:51:34PM +0100, Thorsten Leemhuis wrote: > I hope we (Spot, mdomsch, Jon Masters, /me, maybe some others) can sit > down on the hackfest after fudon and work out a rough concept for the > future. I'd be happy to do so. One of the things I need DKMS to do in the near future is to generate the new kernel module packages http://www.kerneldrivers.org/RedHatKernelModulePackages which is almost as wasy as dropping a new kmp spec file template in and calling 'dkms mkkmp' on it. Then the init-time autobuilder (or better yet, a hook into /sbin/installkernel!!) could do the rebuild into srpm and binrpm and install that. I'm very open to changing the packaging format, but the killer feature is the autobuilder when weak modules or pre-built modules aren't present for "your kernel". In the past we've also gotten bit by rpm holding the database lock running %post, so a dkms driver rpm that discovers at install time in %post that it needs to build and install something can't actually generate and install an RPM because that would be recursive. -- Matt Domsch Software Architect Dell Linux Solutions linux.dell.com & www.dell.com/linux Linux on Dell mailing lists @ http://lists.us.dell.com From dtimms at iinet.net.au Tue Jan 23 12:27:20 2007 From: dtimms at iinet.net.au (David Timms) Date: Tue, 23 Jan 2007 23:27:20 +1100 Subject: "yum update" failure and resulting cleanup headaches. In-Reply-To: <1169529797.24378.14.camel@dragon.valuecommerce.ne.jp> References: <1169529797.24378.14.camel@dragon.valuecommerce.ne.jp> Message-ID: <45B5FF28.5040603@iinet.net.au> Naoki wrote: > This question seems to come up a lot. And the fedora-list usually has > somebody asking how to recover from it. When 'yum' fails for whatever > reason there will be some part of the 'cleanup' phase left undone. At > which point the manual repair of the RPM DB needs to take place, a long > and tedious task. At best even if you have the procedure as a (almost) > single command line, it can be annoying. > > Any official plans to have yum gracefully recover from a failed update? I think that there are a few different issues that appear to be the one issue: a. there was a time when running a rpm/yum/pup udpate within an X session would cause an issue when reloading a config file, causing the X session to restart. This meant that the update did not complete since the package removals did not occur. It seemed the best way to clean the double-up entries is to run dupes-cli.py. b. there is a different issue where there might be a problem with the rpmdb. If this occurs, an rpm -q kernel would work, but an rpm -qa|grep kernel hangs, forever. If this is the case, the other rpm based tools (yum/pup/pirut) also hang if an attempt is made to run them. In this case it is necessary to do the ~ rm /var/lib/__db.00* to fix rpm. If you have both problems, you need to take care of b. first. There has been some requests for yum to be more [bad eg mains reboot during update!] fault tolerant. I forget whether these where on the yum, yum-devel or comments on seths blog that has the dupes-cli.py David Timms. From mcepl at redhat.com Tue Jan 23 12:37:37 2007 From: mcepl at redhat.com (Matej Cepl) Date: Tue, 23 Jan 2007 12:37:37 +0000 (UTC) Subject: Support for mysql++ in Fedora? References: <6c0aa9500701180827k64318341i5506c7879458db5f@mail.gmail.com> <1169173084.3687.12.camel@localhost> <6c0aa9500701190920y2973bcdfg7a6c32d59e030dff@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: Bruce Keats scripst: > I am willing to do get it into the extras, but I am new to Fedora's > packaging guidelines. Are they documented somewhere? As said before http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Packaging/Guidelines and you should certainly read once more http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Extras/Contributors to be familiar with them. > If I do the work then can the mysql++ RPMs be included in the FC5, FC6, > etc releases? It depends on how good packages you will create and whether they will go through review smoothly. > As well, where do the binary RPMs come from? Do I build them or is > there a special build system that creates the binary RPMs once the > source RPM is created? Well, both -- you have to certainly build them yourself for testing, but actual bits which go to Fedora are built by plague http://www.fedoraproject.org/wiki/Projects/Plague but don't with that yet -- you have some way to go before you get there. Just start on the top of the page http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Extras/Contributors and go down. Matej -- http://www.ceplovi.cz/matej/blog/, Jabber: ceplmajabber.cz GPG Finger: 89EF 4BC6 288A BF43 1BAB 25C3 E09F EF25 D964 84AC A fool-proof method for sculpting an elephant: first, get a huge block of marble; then you chip away everything that doesn't look like an elephant. From nicolas.mailhot at laposte.net Tue Jan 23 11:59:35 2007 From: nicolas.mailhot at laposte.net (Nicolas Mailhot) Date: Tue, 23 Jan 2007 12:59:35 +0100 (CET) Subject: rawhide report: 20070120 changes In-Reply-To: <1169549107.3244.22.camel@perun.kabelta.loc> References: <200701201127.l0KBRwLc007330@hs20-bc2-6.build.redhat.com> <200701220721.23081.bernie@develer.com> <200701221509.l0MF9DbE015590@laptop13.inf.utfsm.cl> <200701221031.03733.jkeating@redhat.com> <1169549107.3244.22.camel@perun.kabelta.loc> Message-ID: <17074.192.54.193.51.1169553575.squirrel@rousalka.dyndns.org> Le Mar 23 janvier 2007 11:45, Tomas Mraz a ?crit : > On Mon, 2007-01-22 at 10:31 -0500, Jesse Keating wrote: >> On Monday 22 January 2007 10:09, Horst H. von Brand wrote: >> > Doesn't work. Just works. But only on i686, not x86_64. >> > >> > Somebody sneaked into postgres via ssh on an x86_64 here on the 21 >> (after >> > the update)... >> >> You're running rawhide on an internet facing system? > > I'm really grateful that there are such brave people otherwise this flaw > would stay unnoticed for much longer time. Actually, I wouldn't be surprised if the bulk of rawhide testers were desktop users with internet-facing systems -- Nicolas Mailhot From mcepl at redhat.com Tue Jan 23 12:48:22 2007 From: mcepl at redhat.com (Matej Cepl) Date: Tue, 23 Jan 2007 12:48:22 +0000 (UTC) Subject: Long term PIM solution References: Message-ID: Anuj Verma (Kevin) scripst: > I am sorry, I did not mention that Evolution to me does not seems to be a > long term solution, though I am not sure. > > But Current state of long pending bug fixes and upstream patch acceptance > often talked about makes me think of an alternative to Evolution. See thread http://thread.gmane.org/gmane.linux.redhat.fedora.devel/37425/focus=37851 so we don't have to rehash it here again. Evolution IMHO is VERY LONG TERM solution, which is currently generally (for most people) unstable and too buggy. However, if debugged, it is probably the most featurefull PIM available (anyone heard about Chandler lately?). Matej -- http://www.ceplovi.cz/matej/blog/, Jabber: ceplmajabber.cz GPG Finger: 89EF 4BC6 288A BF43 1BAB 25C3 E09F EF25 D964 84AC Opinions founded on prejudice are always sustained with the greatest violence. -- Hebrew Proverb From jwboyer at jdub.homelinux.org Tue Jan 23 13:12:03 2007 From: jwboyer at jdub.homelinux.org (Josh Boyer) Date: Tue, 23 Jan 2007 07:12:03 -0600 Subject: New VCS Choice; SCM SIG In-Reply-To: <1169534670.6751.39.camel@mccallum.corsepiu.local> References: <1169160615.14225.127.camel@localhost.localdomain> <20070119092032.GN3978@petra.dvoda.cz> <1169503637.6687.94.camel@localhost.localdomain> <1169504444.11081.60.camel@zod.rchland.ibm.com> <1169519597.6687.144.camel@localhost.localdomain> <20070123030722.GB25972@yoda.jdub.homelinux.org> <1169531198.6687.179.camel@localhost.localdomain> <1169531943.6751.25.camel@mccallum.corsepiu.local> <1169533624.6687.203.camel@localhost.localdomain> <1169534670.6751.39.camel@mccallum.corsepiu.local> Message-ID: <1169557923.6693.5.camel@zod.rchland.ibm.com> On Tue, 2007-01-23 at 07:44 +0100, Ralf Corsepius wrote: > > > > > cvs doesn't separate the concept of tags and branches. > Right, this bloats the repos sizes on the server (svn pushes this bloat > to the clients) and renders "branch removal" a pain on the server. > > > It also works on > > individual files rather than whole trees. > Right, but I don't see this as a disadvantage. It's a different working > principle. This is actually what I hate most about CVS. It doesn't have the concept of changesets. So you can commit a bunch of files at once, that logically should be considered as one change and have a single file fail to commit because of a conflict while the rest go into the repo. It's annoying when that happens because now you have a broken repo because not all the files were committed and tracking history of the files at that point starts to become difficult. Looking at a cvs log, you cannot determine if version 1.2 of foo.c and 1.4 of bar.c logically belong together very easily. It gets worse with the branching. In git, svn, hg, and other SCMs, changesets are supported. A huge +1 in my opinion. josh (Note, I'm not a huge fan of svn, especially it's branching scheme. But it at least has changesets.) From jkeating at redhat.com Tue Jan 23 13:25:59 2007 From: jkeating at redhat.com (Jesse Keating) Date: Tue, 23 Jan 2007 08:25:59 -0500 Subject: New VCS Choice; SCM SIG In-Reply-To: <1169534670.6751.39.camel@mccallum.corsepiu.local> References: <1169160615.14225.127.camel@localhost.localdomain> <1169533624.6687.203.camel@localhost.localdomain> <1169534670.6751.39.camel@mccallum.corsepiu.local> Message-ID: <200701230825.59771.jkeating@redhat.com> On Tuesday 23 January 2007 01:44, Ralf Corsepius wrote: > What I find arguable/questionable in FE's CVS-repos, is the way > "FE-branches" have been implemented into it. They are implemented as > separate directories instead of CVS-branches. If real CVS-branches had > been used several details would have been much easier. > > In the early days of FE, I had been told the reason for this design > decision had been AVCs, because CVS storing branches in files would > prevent AVCs to be applicable. Way back when, the dist-cvs method did use actual cvs branches, however the workflow was not easy to apply changes across all branches. And to some extent having actual directories made life a bit easier for many things. Now, directories COULD be implemented at the same time as cvs branches, just a little extra work on the tool side when bringing them down. But here we are, and most of us feel that it would be better to move to a new SCM with new possibilities rather than put significant effort into CVS. -- Jesse Keating Release Engineer: Fedora -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 189 bytes Desc: not available URL: From nicolas.mailhot at laposte.net Tue Jan 23 13:32:26 2007 From: nicolas.mailhot at laposte.net (Nicolas Mailhot) Date: Tue, 23 Jan 2007 14:32:26 +0100 (CET) Subject: New VCS Choice; SCM SIG Message-ID: <55648.192.54.193.51.1169559146.squirrel@rousalka.dyndns.org> Le Mar 23 janvier 2007 14:12, Josh Boyer a ?crit : > On Tue, 2007-01-23 at 07:44 +0100, Ralf Corsepius wrote: >> > > >> > cvs doesn't separate the concept of tags and branches. >> Right, this bloats the repos sizes on the server (svn pushes this bloat >> to the clients) and renders "branch removal" a pain on the server. >> >> > It also works on >> > individual files rather than whole trees. >> Right, but I don't see this as a disadvantage. It's a different working >> principle. > > This is actually what I hate most about CVS. It doesn't have the > concept of changesets. So you can commit a bunch of files at once, that > logically should be considered as one change and have a single file fail > to commit because of a conflict while the rest go into the repo. That's why cvs-import is insanely great /me runs -- Nicolas Mailhot From rc040203 at freenet.de Tue Jan 23 14:00:54 2007 From: rc040203 at freenet.de (Ralf Corsepius) Date: Tue, 23 Jan 2007 15:00:54 +0100 Subject: New VCS Choice; SCM SIG In-Reply-To: <200701230825.59771.jkeating@redhat.com> References: <1169160615.14225.127.camel@localhost.localdomain> <1169533624.6687.203.camel@localhost.localdomain> <1169534670.6751.39.camel@mccallum.corsepiu.local> <200701230825.59771.jkeating@redhat.com> Message-ID: <1169560855.6751.78.camel@mccallum.corsepiu.local> On Tue, 2007-01-23 at 08:25 -0500, Jesse Keating wrote: > On Tuesday 23 January 2007 01:44, Ralf Corsepius wrote: > > What I find arguable/questionable in FE's CVS-repos, is the way > > "FE-branches" have been implemented into it. They are implemented as > > separate directories instead of CVS-branches. If real CVS-branches had > > been used several details would have been much easier. > > > > In the early days of FE, I had been told the reason for this design > > decision had been AVCs, because CVS storing branches in files would > > prevent AVCs to be applicable. > > Way back when, the dist-cvs method did use actual cvs branches, however the > workflow was not easy to apply changes across all branches. And to some > extent having actual directories made life a bit easier for many things. > Now, directories COULD be implemented at the same time as cvs branches, just > a little extra work on the tool side when bringing them down. But here we > are, and most of us feel that it would be better to move to a new SCM with > new possibilities rather than put significant effort into CVS. Well, from a user perspective things look a bit different: CVS has a long history, probably everybody has his own record of experiences with it, probably everybody knows about the weaknesses of CVS => Everybody is bashing on it. IMO, svn is heading along the same lane. Initially it had not been much more but a "weak promise", then it had been pushed/hyped, now people are about to move away from it. To me personally, gcc having moved from CVS to svn, gave me sufficient reasons to hate it and not to consider it anymore for my own work :( Now, dist-hg, git, bazaar seem to be on high on the list of personal preferences for some "leading RH people", for reasons only partially known to me. Please don't forget that these still qualify as exotic and rarely used tools, which have had comparable little exposure, and therefore probably suffer from a lot of bugs and unknowns. Also, don't forget that FE is supposed to be easily usable by many people. IMO, it would qualify as a fault to switch to using something "exotic". So, all in all, you should better make all these VCS stuff entirely transparent (Implement applications around it), or you'd better off using something standardized, ... which ATM, would reduce the choice to svn or CVS. Ralf From rc040203 at freenet.de Tue Jan 23 14:10:53 2007 From: rc040203 at freenet.de (Ralf Corsepius) Date: Tue, 23 Jan 2007 15:10:53 +0100 Subject: "yum update" failure and resulting cleanup headaches. In-Reply-To: <45B5FF28.5040603@iinet.net.au> References: <1169529797.24378.14.camel@dragon.valuecommerce.ne.jp> <45B5FF28.5040603@iinet.net.au> Message-ID: <1169561454.6751.88.camel@mccallum.corsepiu.local> On Tue, 2007-01-23 at 23:27 +1100, David Timms wrote: > Naoki wrote: > > This question seems to come up a lot. And the fedora-list usually has > > somebody asking how to recover from it. When 'yum' fails for whatever > > reason there will be some part of the 'cleanup' phase left undone. At > > which point the manual repair of the RPM DB needs to take place, a long > > and tedious task. At best even if you have the procedure as a (almost) > > single command line, it can be annoying. > > > > Any official plans to have yum gracefully recover from a failed update? > I think that there are a few different issues that appear to be the one > issue: > a. there was a time when running a rpm/yum/pup udpate within an X > session would cause an issue when reloading a config file, causing the X > session to restart. This meant that the update did not complete since > the package removals did not occur. It seemed the best way to clean the > double-up entries is to run dupes-cli.py. > > b. there is a different issue where there might be a problem with the > rpmdb. If this occurs, an rpm -q kernel would work, but an rpm -qa|grep > kernel hangs, forever. If this is the case, the other rpm based tools > (yum/pup/pirut) also hang if an attempt is made to run them. In this > case it is necessary to do the ~ rm /var/lib/__db.00* to fix rpm. And there is likely more (I don't know whether or not they are connected to a. and b. above): c. Situations in which accessing the rpmdb hangs and rm /var/lib/rpm/__db* + rpm --rebuilddb does not help. Whenever I have encountered such situations (at average twice a month since FC6 is out - I've never seen this with FC5), rebooting seems have helped for me. Some people accuse filesystem and kernel bugs for this, but I don't have any evidence if this is true or not. d. Situations in which yum segfaults. I have increasingly encountered them since the most recent kernel and yum update for FC6 (almost daily since then). e. The mmap bug - I don't know if this still applies, but this reportedly seems to affect apt-get and can leave locked rpmdbs behind (I've seen this myself) f. Yum not degrading gracefully when being low on memory and leaving locked rpmdb behind. I am not surprised to see yum going through the root on "really small systems", but I've seen this happening on 256MB RAM systems, which otherwise still are usable. Sorry, if this might hurt some people, but I can't deny finding yum/apt/rpm have never been more unstable and less reliable before, than are on FC6. Ralf From katzj at redhat.com Tue Jan 23 14:39:55 2007 From: katzj at redhat.com (Jeremy Katz) Date: Tue, 23 Jan 2007 09:39:55 -0500 Subject: xen images gone from rawhide. In-Reply-To: <1169547864.3033.10.camel@blaa> References: <1169528281.24378.1.camel@dragon.valuecommerce.ne.jp> <1169543173.45b5d00570fbb@ssl.mecca.ca> <1169543651.45b5d1e3a91d3@ssl.mecca.ca> <1169547864.3033.10.camel@blaa> Message-ID: <1169563195.4922.16.camel@aglarond.local> On Tue, 2007-01-23 at 10:24 +0000, Mark McLoughlin wrote: > On Tue, 2007-01-23 at 04:14 -0500, Luya Tshimbalanga wrote: > > The address is incorrect and should be > > http://download.fedoraproject.org/pub/fedora/linux/core/development/x86_64//os/images/xen > > > > Xen directory is indeed not available. Perhaps it has been moved. > > Each time the kernel RPM is updated with a new version from upstream > the Xen patch needs to be merged with the latest kernel. Sometimes > that's a huge task and the -xen kernel is disabled while the merge is > being worked on. This last happened in rawhide after the > 2.6.18-1.2784.2.3.fc7 kernel ... there hasn't been a kernel-xen since. And not really helping matters at all is the fact that the upstream xen-unstable code base was still on 2.6.16 up until about two weeks ago. They're now up to 2.6.18, but that's still significantly behind the 2.6.20-rc that rawhide is tracking. This just ends up being another example of why we are so "upstream, upstream, upstream!" focused[1]. Jeremy [1] Since in this case, where we compromised on the upstream angle, we are now in a position where our users suffer because the upstream for Xen doesn't track the upstream of the kernel well enough. And the work to do so takes a significant amount of time. From chris at idlelion.net Tue Jan 23 15:12:26 2007 From: chris at idlelion.net (chris at idlelion.net) Date: Tue, 23 Jan 2007 09:12:26 -0600 (CST) Subject: Sound on ThinkPad 600X Message-ID: Hello all, I have three IBM ThinkPad 600X laptops in my home. I'd like to put Fedora on my wife's, but sound does not work after a resume (on mine, anyway). I can get sound back by logging out (gnome-session holds the module open), rmmod and modprobe in a console, and logging in. A work-around that a computer user (as opposed to tech geek) should not have to endure. There are already similar bugs in bugzilla on this topic, but should I file another one on this particular hardware? (snd_cs46xx, I believe) Chris From buc at odusz.so-cdu.ru Tue Jan 23 15:23:23 2007 From: buc at odusz.so-cdu.ru (Dmitry Butskoy) Date: Tue, 23 Jan 2007 18:23:23 +0300 Subject: Sound on ThinkPad 600X In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <45B6286B.1080806@odu.neva.ru> chris at idlelion.net wrote: > I can get sound back by logging out (gnome-session holds the module > open), rmmod and modprobe in a console, and logging in. Try to play with "alsactl power", see https://bugzilla.redhat.com/bugzilla/show_bug.cgi?id=155705 it could prevent you from re-session of gnome etc. If it will solve the issue, you can add a needed script under /etc/pm/hooks ("pm-utils" package) etc... Dmitry Butskoy http://www.fedoraproject.org/wiki/DmitryButskoy From nicolas.mailhot at laposte.net Tue Jan 23 15:20:37 2007 From: nicolas.mailhot at laposte.net (Nicolas Mailhot) Date: Tue, 23 Jan 2007 16:20:37 +0100 (CET) Subject: New VCS Choice; SCM SIG In-Reply-To: <1169560855.6751.78.camel@mccallum.corsepiu.local> References: <1169160615.14225.127.camel@localhost.localdomain> <1169533624.6687.203.camel@localhost.localdomain> <1169534670.6751.39.camel@mccallum.corsepiu.local> <200701230825.59771.jkeating@redhat.com> <1169560855.6751.78.camel@mccallum.corsepiu.local> Message-ID: <15194.192.54.193.51.1169565637.squirrel@rousalka.dyndns.org> Le Mar 23 janvier 2007 15:00, Ralf Corsepius a ?crit : > So, all in all, you should better make all these VCS stuff entirely > transparent (Implement applications around it), or you'd better off > using something standardized, ... which ATM, would reduce the choice to > svn or CVS. A lot of big projects (Linux, Xorg, Java VM, etc) are moving either to git or hg today. hg/git are not "exotic", bazar/svn increasingly are (git/hg are really the same choice as they're very similar fonctionnality-wise) You have the following history A. CVS sucks, but everybody but Linus uses it B. lots of next-gen FLOSS VCS projects created after Linus starts using bk. Two philosophies : slightly better CVS (SVN), radical new experimental designs C. ... a few projects choose SVN as a better CVS. Experimental scares people D. Linus dumps bk, looks are next-gen VCSes, decides to write git. hg announced at about the same time, with similar design E. Public use of git and hg by big projects inspire confidence. New projects go A->D or nothing->D. C starts loosing momentum fast. B never took of SVN was last year's good choice. CVS was last decade bad default. -- Nicolas Mailhot From steve at silug.org Tue Jan 23 15:57:16 2007 From: steve at silug.org (Steven Pritchard) Date: Tue, 23 Jan 2007 09:57:16 -0600 Subject: "yum update" failure and resulting cleanup headaches. In-Reply-To: <1169561454.6751.88.camel@mccallum.corsepiu.local> References: <1169529797.24378.14.camel@dragon.valuecommerce.ne.jp> <45B5FF28.5040603@iinet.net.au> <1169561454.6751.88.camel@mccallum.corsepiu.local> Message-ID: <20070123155716.GA2506@osiris.silug.org> On Tue, Jan 23, 2007 at 03:10:53PM +0100, Ralf Corsepius wrote: > Sorry, if this might hurt some people, but I can't deny finding > yum/apt/rpm have never been more unstable and less reliable before, than > are on FC6. You must not remember RHL 8.0 very well. :-) Steve -- Steven Pritchard - K&S Pritchard Enterprises, Inc. Email: steve at kspei.com http://www.kspei.com/ Phone: (618)398-3000 Mobile: (618)567-7320 From rc040203 at freenet.de Tue Jan 23 16:03:16 2007 From: rc040203 at freenet.de (Ralf Corsepius) Date: Tue, 23 Jan 2007 17:03:16 +0100 Subject: New VCS Choice; SCM SIG In-Reply-To: <15194.192.54.193.51.1169565637.squirrel@rousalka.dyndns.org> References: <1169160615.14225.127.camel@localhost.localdomain> <1169533624.6687.203.camel@localhost.localdomain> <1169534670.6751.39.camel@mccallum.corsepiu.local> <200701230825.59771.jkeating@redhat.com> <1169560855.6751.78.camel@mccallum.corsepiu.local> <15194.192.54.193.51.1169565637.squirrel@rousalka.dyndns.org> Message-ID: <1169568196.6751.101.camel@mccallum.corsepiu.local> On Tue, 2007-01-23 at 16:20 +0100, Nicolas Mailhot wrote: > Le Mar 23 janvier 2007 15:00, Ralf Corsepius a ?crit : > > > So, all in all, you should better make all these VCS stuff entirely > > transparent (Implement applications around it), or you'd better off > > using something standardized, ... which ATM, would reduce the choice to > > svn or CVS. > > A lot of big projects (Linux, Xorg, Java VM, etc) ... all comparatively small in comparison to Fedora ... A Fedora package VCS is comparatively simple, but it's BIG, very BIG. > are moving either to git > or hg today. hg/git are not "exotic", bazar/svn increasingly are (git/hg > are really the same choice as they're very similar fonctionnality-wise) > > You have the following history > > A. CVS sucks, but everybody but Linus uses it Exactly, ... because it doesn't suck as much as some people want to make believe and because it's still very usable. > E. Public use of git and hg by big projects inspire confidence. If things work out ... if not ... it pisses people off from FEDORA. > SVN was last year's good choice. Well, I beg to differ ... ... last decade's trap, many people fell into. > CVS was last decade bad default. ... known deficiencies/issues + experience + wide userbase == confidence and usability ;) Ralf From rc040203 at freenet.de Tue Jan 23 16:05:35 2007 From: rc040203 at freenet.de (Ralf Corsepius) Date: Tue, 23 Jan 2007 17:05:35 +0100 Subject: "yum update" failure and resulting cleanup headaches. In-Reply-To: <20070123155716.GA2506@osiris.silug.org> References: <1169529797.24378.14.camel@dragon.valuecommerce.ne.jp> <45B5FF28.5040603@iinet.net.au> <1169561454.6751.88.camel@mccallum.corsepiu.local> <20070123155716.GA2506@osiris.silug.org> Message-ID: <1169568336.6751.104.camel@mccallum.corsepiu.local> On Tue, 2007-01-23 at 09:57 -0600, Steven Pritchard wrote: > On Tue, Jan 23, 2007 at 03:10:53PM +0100, Ralf Corsepius wrote: > > Sorry, if this might hurt some people, but I can't deny finding > > yum/apt/rpm have never been more unstable and less reliable before, than > > are on FC6. > > You must not remember RHL 8.0 very well. :-) yum on RHL-8.0? Admitted, rpm on RH-8.0 (or was it RH-9) had been a pain, but yum etc. aren't much better ATM ;) Ralf From jima at beer.tclug.org Tue Jan 23 16:54:35 2007 From: jima at beer.tclug.org (Jima) Date: Tue, 23 Jan 2007 10:54:35 -0600 (CST) Subject: Automated installation joy In-Reply-To: <3ea997540701220810p30752c1coa6a91e2045b2baa8@mail.gmail.com> References: <3ea997540701220810p30752c1coa6a91e2045b2baa8@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: On Mon, 22 Jan 2007, John Mahowald wrote: > On 1/19/07, Ed Swierk wrote: >> My company uses Fedora for its software development platform, and over >> time we've built up a set of packages (called "Arora") that make it >> easy to assimilate a vanilla Fedora box into our environment. > > At first I thought of Aurora, the port to SPARC [1]. Could be slightly > confusing if you had SPARC hardware internally! I had the same thought, but I figured replying saying as much might seem too shameless-plug-like. ;) Jima From nicolas.mailhot at laposte.net Tue Jan 23 16:13:55 2007 From: nicolas.mailhot at laposte.net (Nicolas Mailhot) Date: Tue, 23 Jan 2007 17:13:55 +0100 (CET) Subject: New VCS Choice; SCM SIG In-Reply-To: <1169568196.6751.101.camel@mccallum.corsepiu.local> References: <1169160615.14225.127.camel@localhost.localdomain> <1169533624.6687.203.camel@localhost.localdomain> <1169534670.6751.39.camel@mccallum.corsepiu.local> <200701230825.59771.jkeating@redhat.com> <1169560855.6751.78.camel@mccallum.corsepiu.local> <15194.192.54.193.51.1169565637.squirrel@rousalka.dyndns.org> <1169568196.6751.101.camel@mccallum.corsepiu.local> Message-ID: <44396.192.54.193.51.1169568835.squirrel@rousalka.dyndns.org> Le Mar 23 janvier 2007 17:03, Ralf Corsepius a ?crit : >> CVS was last decade bad default. > ... known deficiencies/issues + experience + wide userbase > == confidence and usability ;) ROTFL Spontaneous usability generation does not happen Spontaneous bad excuse generation does -- Nicolas Mailhot From krh at redhat.com Tue Jan 23 16:57:58 2007 From: krh at redhat.com (=?UTF-8?B?S3Jpc3RpYW4gSMO4Z3NiZXJn?=) Date: Tue, 23 Jan 2007 11:57:58 -0500 Subject: New VCS Choice; SCM SIG In-Reply-To: <1169560855.6751.78.camel@mccallum.corsepiu.local> References: <1169160615.14225.127.camel@localhost.localdomain> <1169533624.6687.203.camel@localhost.localdomain> <1169534670.6751.39.camel@mccallum.corsepiu.local> <200701230825.59771.jkeating@redhat.com> <1169560855.6751.78.camel@mccallum.corsepiu.local> Message-ID: <45B63E96.2070300@redhat.com> Ralf Corsepius wrote: > On Tue, 2007-01-23 at 08:25 -0500, Jesse Keating wrote: >> On Tuesday 23 January 2007 01:44, Ralf Corsepius wrote: >>> What I find arguable/questionable in FE's CVS-repos, is the way >>> "FE-branches" have been implemented into it. They are implemented as >>> separate directories instead of CVS-branches. If real CVS-branches had >>> been used several details would have been much easier. >>> >>> In the early days of FE, I had been told the reason for this design >>> decision had been AVCs, because CVS storing branches in files would >>> prevent AVCs to be applicable. >> Way back when, the dist-cvs method did use actual cvs branches, however the >> workflow was not easy to apply changes across all branches. And to some >> extent having actual directories made life a bit easier for many things. >> Now, directories COULD be implemented at the same time as cvs branches, just >> a little extra work on the tool side when bringing them down. But here we >> are, and most of us feel that it would be better to move to a new SCM with >> new possibilities rather than put significant effort into CVS. > Well, from a user perspective things look a bit different: > > CVS has a long history, probably everybody has his own record of > experiences with it, probably everybody knows about the weaknesses of > CVS => Everybody is bashing on it. > > IMO, svn is heading along the same lane. Initially it had not been much > more but a "weak promise", then it had been pushed/hyped, now people are > about to move away from it. To me personally, gcc having moved from CVS > to svn, gave me sufficient reasons to hate it and not to consider it > anymore for my own work :( > > Now, dist-hg, git, bazaar seem to be on high on the list of personal > preferences for some "leading RH people", for reasons only partially > known to me. There is no conspiracy here. It's not a secret club of RH people pushing an agenda. What it is, probably, is that some people have actually tried out these new tools, and some use them on a daily basis. Once you've done that, it's pretty obvious that these tools give you new powerful ways of working with your source code. And at the same time they allow pretty much the same centralized model as centralized tools such as cvs or svn. > Please don't forget that these still qualify as exotic and rarely used > tools, which have had comparable little exposure, and therefore probably > suffer from a lot of bugs and unknowns. Also, don't forget that FE is > supposed to be easily usable by many people. IMO, it would qualify as a > fault to switch to using something "exotic". I sure beg to differ. Open your eyes - all of X.org, mesa, the kernel, cairo, hal is developed in git. Don't call that 'little exposure'. git is different from cvs in many ways, but that's typically in a good way, and certainly doesn't warrent the label 'exotic'. thanks, Kristian From jwboyer at jdub.homelinux.org Tue Jan 23 17:23:38 2007 From: jwboyer at jdub.homelinux.org (Josh Boyer) Date: Tue, 23 Jan 2007 11:23:38 -0600 Subject: New VCS Choice; SCM SIG In-Reply-To: <1169568196.6751.101.camel@mccallum.corsepiu.local> References: <1169160615.14225.127.camel@localhost.localdomain> <1169533624.6687.203.camel@localhost.localdomain> <1169534670.6751.39.camel@mccallum.corsepiu.local> <200701230825.59771.jkeating@redhat.com> <1169560855.6751.78.camel@mccallum.corsepiu.local> <15194.192.54.193.51.1169565637.squirrel@rousalka.dyndns.org> <1169568196.6751.101.camel@mccallum.corsepiu.local> Message-ID: <1169573018.6693.16.camel@zod.rchland.ibm.com> On Tue, 2007-01-23 at 17:03 +0100, Ralf Corsepius wrote: > On Tue, 2007-01-23 at 16:20 +0100, Nicolas Mailhot wrote: > > Le Mar 23 janvier 2007 15:00, Ralf Corsepius a ?crit : > > > > > So, all in all, you should better make all these VCS stuff entirely > > > transparent (Implement applications around it), or you'd better off > > > using something standardized, ... which ATM, would reduce the choice to > > > svn or CVS. > > > > A lot of big projects (Linux, Xorg, Java VM, etc) > ... all comparatively small in comparison to Fedora ... > > A Fedora package VCS is comparatively simple, but it's BIG, very BIG. Big how? Storage size? (I doubt it given that the tarballs for the packages aren't even stored in the SCM. They're stored in the lookaside cache.) Number of files? (I highly doubt we have more files stored in SCM than the kernel or X.org) Number of users? What exactly do you mean by big? josh From mmcgrath at fedoraproject.org Tue Jan 23 17:29:04 2007 From: mmcgrath at fedoraproject.org (Mike McGrath) Date: Tue, 23 Jan 2007 11:29:04 -0600 Subject: New VCS Choice; SCM SIG In-Reply-To: <1169573018.6693.16.camel@zod.rchland.ibm.com> References: <1169160615.14225.127.camel@localhost.localdomain> <1169533624.6687.203.camel@localhost.localdomain> <1169534670.6751.39.camel@mccallum.corsepiu.local> <200701230825.59771.jkeating@redhat.com> <1169560855.6751.78.camel@mccallum.corsepiu.local> <15194.192.54.193.51.1169565637.squirrel@rousalka.dyndns.org> <1169568196.6751.101.camel@mccallum.corsepiu.local> <1169573018.6693.16.camel@zod.rchland.ibm.com> Message-ID: <3237e4410701230929x782ebb7fl1504034598b0f547@mail.gmail.com> On 1/23/07, Josh Boyer wrote: > On Tue, 2007-01-23 at 17:03 +0100, Ralf Corsepius wrote: > > A Fedora package VCS is comparatively simple, but it's BIG, very BIG. > > Big how? > Its actually not that bad - # du -sh extras 2.0G extras # du -sh dist 1.7G dist -Mike From seg at haxxed.com Tue Jan 23 18:04:05 2007 From: seg at haxxed.com (Callum Lerwick) Date: Tue, 23 Jan 2007 12:04:05 -0600 Subject: CNR on Fedora? Message-ID: <1169575445.27761.7.camel@localhost.localdomain> I just got this in my email: http://www.linspire.com/linspire_letter_archives.php?id=38 So Linspire is planning to port CNR to Fedora, Debian, SuSE and Ubuntu? Have they actually talked to anyone in Fedora about this yet? Doesn't really say what this entails, if its just a fancy front end to our existing repos and yum, that would be pretty sweet and possibly save us some trouble. If they're usurping our packages and repos, then we have a problem... (I'm about 500 messages behind so ignore me if this is a repost...) -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: signature.asc Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 189 bytes Desc: This is a digitally signed message part URL: From rc040203 at freenet.de Tue Jan 23 18:15:28 2007 From: rc040203 at freenet.de (Ralf Corsepius) Date: Tue, 23 Jan 2007 19:15:28 +0100 Subject: New VCS Choice; SCM SIG In-Reply-To: <1169573018.6693.16.camel@zod.rchland.ibm.com> References: <1169160615.14225.127.camel@localhost.localdomain> <1169533624.6687.203.camel@localhost.localdomain> <1169534670.6751.39.camel@mccallum.corsepiu.local> <200701230825.59771.jkeating@redhat.com> <1169560855.6751.78.camel@mccallum.corsepiu.local> <15194.192.54.193.51.1169565637.squirrel@rousalka.dyndns.org> <1169568196.6751.101.camel@mccallum.corsepiu.local> <1169573018.6693.16.camel@zod.rchland.ibm.com> Message-ID: <1169576128.6751.126.camel@mccallum.corsepiu.local> On Tue, 2007-01-23 at 11:23 -0600, Josh Boyer wrote: > On Tue, 2007-01-23 at 17:03 +0100, Ralf Corsepius wrote: > > On Tue, 2007-01-23 at 16:20 +0100, Nicolas Mailhot wrote: > > > Le Mar 23 janvier 2007 15:00, Ralf Corsepius a ?crit : > > > > > > > So, all in all, you should better make all these VCS stuff entirely > > > > transparent (Implement applications around it), or you'd better off > > > > using something standardized, ... which ATM, would reduce the choice to > > > > svn or CVS. > > > > > > A lot of big projects (Linux, Xorg, Java VM, etc) > > ... all comparatively small in comparison to Fedora ... > > > > A Fedora package VCS is comparatively simple, but it's BIG, very BIG. > > Big how? > > Storage size? Yes. > (I doubt it given that the tarballs for the packages > aren't even stored in the SCM. They're stored in the lookaside cache.) Depends on the SCM. Add the file sizes and the administrational stuff to the SCM and it's several 10's GB in size. > Number of files? No. > Number of users? No. > What exactly do you mean by big? Storage - What the "FE buildsystem" does is more a flat database but a real SCM, with 10's of dozens of branches and 10000's of microscopic differences between files. Ralf From rc040203 at freenet.de Tue Jan 23 18:18:27 2007 From: rc040203 at freenet.de (Ralf Corsepius) Date: Tue, 23 Jan 2007 19:18:27 +0100 Subject: New VCS Choice; SCM SIG In-Reply-To: <45B63E96.2070300@redhat.com> References: <1169160615.14225.127.camel@localhost.localdomain> <1169533624.6687.203.camel@localhost.localdomain> <1169534670.6751.39.camel@mccallum.corsepiu.local> <200701230825.59771.jkeating@redhat.com> <1169560855.6751.78.camel@mccallum.corsepiu.local> <45B63E96.2070300@redhat.com> Message-ID: <1169576307.6751.131.camel@mccallum.corsepiu.local> On Tue, 2007-01-23 at 11:57 -0500, Kristian H?gsberg wrote: > Ralf Corsepius wrote: > > On Tue, 2007-01-23 at 08:25 -0500, Jesse Keating wrote: > >> On Tuesday 23 January 2007 01:44, Ralf Corsepius wrote: > > Please don't forget that these still qualify as exotic and rarely used > > tools, which have had comparable little exposure, and therefore probably > > suffer from a lot of bugs and unknowns. Also, don't forget that FE is > > supposed to be easily usable by many people. IMO, it would qualify as a > > fault to switch to using something "exotic". > > I sure beg to differ. Open your eyes - all of X.org, mesa, the kernel, cairo, > hal is developed in git. And almost the rest of the world uses CVS and svn, even sources.redhat.com still uses CVS ... GCC uses a monsterous svn. Does sourceforge support git? Ralf From dennis at ausil.us Tue Jan 23 18:20:46 2007 From: dennis at ausil.us (Dennis Gilmore) Date: Tue, 23 Jan 2007 12:20:46 -0600 Subject: CNR on Fedora? In-Reply-To: <1169575445.27761.7.camel@localhost.localdomain> References: <1169575445.27761.7.camel@localhost.localdomain> Message-ID: <200701231220.46791.dennis@ausil.us> On Tuesday 23 January 2007 12:04, Callum Lerwick wrote: > I just got this in my email: > > http://www.linspire.com/linspire_letter_archives.php?id=38 > > So Linspire is planning to port CNR to Fedora, Debian, SuSE and Ubuntu? > > Have they actually talked to anyone in Fedora about this yet? First ive heard of it so i doubt they have talked with anyone. if they had it would have come up before now. > Doesn't really say what this entails, if its just a fancy front end to > our existing repos and yum, that would be pretty sweet and possibly save > us some trouble. cnr.com makes it look like they plan to add extra stuff to what in Fedora already . http://www.cnr.com/screenshots.html shows how they say it will work. > If they're usurping our packages and repos, then we have a problem... That could be a very big problem. -- ?,-._|\ ? ?Dennis Gilmore, RHCE /Aussie\ ? Proud Australian \_.--._/ ? | Aurora | Fedora | ? ? ? v ? ? From sundaram at fedoraproject.org Tue Jan 23 18:26:08 2007 From: sundaram at fedoraproject.org (Rahul Sundaram) Date: Tue, 23 Jan 2007 23:56:08 +0530 Subject: CNR on Fedora? In-Reply-To: <1169575445.27761.7.camel@localhost.localdomain> References: <1169575445.27761.7.camel@localhost.localdomain> Message-ID: <45B65340.60508@fedoraproject.org> Callum Lerwick wrote: > I just got this in my email: > > http://www.linspire.com/linspire_letter_archives.php?id=38 > > So Linspire is planning to port CNR to Fedora, Debian, SuSE and Ubuntu? > > Have they actually talked to anyone in Fedora about this yet? > > Doesn't really say what this entails, if its just a fancy front end to > our existing repos and yum, that would be pretty sweet and possibly save > us some trouble. > > If they're usurping our packages and repos, then we have a problem... > > (I'm about 500 messages behind so ignore me if this is a repost...) After looking at the FAQ and screenshots on the site it doesnt appear they really need to collaborate beyond using the Fedora repositories+ some proprietary packages on their own, add some metadata on top and present a good web/client interface. Why is that a problem for us? If we want to we can build add such (optional) metadata ourselves to the the repomd and present such a interface too. The CNR has also been under a Free software license for a while. Rahul From kmaraas at broadpark.no Tue Jan 23 18:46:49 2007 From: kmaraas at broadpark.no (Kjartan Maraas) Date: Tue, 23 Jan 2007 19:46:49 +0100 Subject: New VCS Choice; SCM SIG In-Reply-To: <1169576307.6751.131.camel@mccallum.corsepiu.local> References: <1169160615.14225.127.camel@localhost.localdomain> <1169533624.6687.203.camel@localhost.localdomain> <1169534670.6751.39.camel@mccallum.corsepiu.local> <200701230825.59771.jkeating@redhat.com> <1169560855.6751.78.camel@mccallum.corsepiu.local> <45B63E96.2070300@redhat.com> <1169576307.6751.131.camel@mccallum.corsepiu.local> Message-ID: <1169578009.12791.5.camel@rivendell> tir, 23.01.2007 kl. 19.18 +0100, skrev Ralf Corsepius: > On Tue, 2007-01-23 at 11:57 -0500, Kristian H?gsberg wrote: > > Ralf Corsepius wrote: > > > On Tue, 2007-01-23 at 08:25 -0500, Jesse Keating wrote: > > >> On Tuesday 23 January 2007 01:44, Ralf Corsepius wrote: > > > > Please don't forget that these still qualify as exotic and rarely used > > > tools, which have had comparable little exposure, and therefore probably > > > suffer from a lot of bugs and unknowns. Also, don't forget that FE is > > > supposed to be easily usable by many people. IMO, it would qualify as a > > > fault to switch to using something "exotic". > > > > I sure beg to differ. Open your eyes - all of X.org, mesa, the kernel, cairo, > > hal is developed in git. > > And almost the rest of the world uses CVS and svn, even > sources.redhat.com still uses CVS ... GCC uses a monsterous svn. > I seem to remember that GNOME developers have complained about CVS since the very inception of the project, so the fact that people are using CVS doesn't really have to mean that it's the best tool for the job. We recently moved to svn though and that has had some fairly obvious advantages, but also it is very demanding on disk space compared to CVS. > Does sourceforge support git? > I don't know, but you can use rsync:// ssh:// http:// and other protocols in addition to the native git protocol which make it easier to access source repos from behind firewalls too. Cheers Kjartan From dennis at ausil.us Tue Jan 23 19:04:52 2007 From: dennis at ausil.us (Dennis Gilmore) Date: Tue, 23 Jan 2007 13:04:52 -0600 Subject: CNR on Fedora? In-Reply-To: <45B65340.60508@fedoraproject.org> References: <1169575445.27761.7.camel@localhost.localdomain> <45B65340.60508@fedoraproject.org> Message-ID: <200701231304.52668.dennis@ausil.us> On Tuesday 23 January 2007 12:26, Rahul Sundaram wrote: > > After looking at the FAQ and screenshots on the site it doesnt appear > they really need to collaborate beyond using the Fedora repositories+ > some proprietary packages on their own, add some metadata on top and > present a good web/client interface. Why is that a problem for us? If we > want to we can build add such (optional) metadata ourselves to the the > repomd and present such a interface too. The CNR has also been under a > Free software license for a while. The problem i see is the Linspire enhanced software. I take it to mean that they will replace bits of our software with their own builds. Which they are free to do. I see it being a problem when bugs come in for Linspire replaced pieces, and the will come. Otherwise they really are free to do as they please. If all they do is add a front end then great. -- ?,-._|\ ? ?Dennis Gilmore, RHCE /Aussie\ ? Proud Australian \_.--._/ ? | Aurora | Fedora | ? ? ? v ? ? From krh at redhat.com Tue Jan 23 19:04:23 2007 From: krh at redhat.com (=?UTF-8?B?S3Jpc3RpYW4gSMO4Z3NiZXJn?=) Date: Tue, 23 Jan 2007 14:04:23 -0500 Subject: New VCS Choice; SCM SIG In-Reply-To: <1169576307.6751.131.camel@mccallum.corsepiu.local> References: <1169160615.14225.127.camel@localhost.localdomain> <1169533624.6687.203.camel@localhost.localdomain> <1169534670.6751.39.camel@mccallum.corsepiu.local> <200701230825.59771.jkeating@redhat.com> <1169560855.6751.78.camel@mccallum.corsepiu.local> <45B63E96.2070300@redhat.com> <1169576307.6751.131.camel@mccallum.corsepiu.local> Message-ID: <45B65C37.5020509@redhat.com> Ralf Corsepius wrote: > On Tue, 2007-01-23 at 11:57 -0500, Kristian H?gsberg wrote: >> Ralf Corsepius wrote: >>> On Tue, 2007-01-23 at 08:25 -0500, Jesse Keating wrote: >>>> On Tuesday 23 January 2007 01:44, Ralf Corsepius wrote: > >>> Please don't forget that these still qualify as exotic and rarely used >>> tools, which have had comparable little exposure, and therefore probably >>> suffer from a lot of bugs and unknowns. Also, don't forget that FE is >>> supposed to be easily usable by many people. IMO, it would qualify as a >>> fault to switch to using something "exotic". >> I sure beg to differ. Open your eyes - all of X.org, mesa, the kernel, cairo, >> hal is developed in git. > > And almost the rest of the world uses CVS and svn, even > sources.redhat.com still uses CVS ... GCC uses a monsterous svn. My point was that git certainly isn't the exotic curiosity you try to paint it as. It's way beyond critical mass and I'd wager at least as stable as CVS at this point. Another point is that these projects likely care more about VCS than your average sourceforge project does, and as such have made much more informed decisions about this than the many projects out there that have just gone with the default lowest common denominator. > Does sourceforge support git? Is sourceforge useful? Kristian From mmcgrath at fedoraproject.org Tue Jan 23 19:13:00 2007 From: mmcgrath at fedoraproject.org (Mike McGrath) Date: Tue, 23 Jan 2007 13:13:00 -0600 Subject: New VCS Choice; SCM SIG In-Reply-To: <45B65C37.5020509@redhat.com> References: <1169160615.14225.127.camel@localhost.localdomain> <1169533624.6687.203.camel@localhost.localdomain> <1169534670.6751.39.camel@mccallum.corsepiu.local> <200701230825.59771.jkeating@redhat.com> <1169560855.6751.78.camel@mccallum.corsepiu.local> <45B63E96.2070300@redhat.com> <1169576307.6751.131.camel@mccallum.corsepiu.local> <45B65C37.5020509@redhat.com> Message-ID: <3237e4410701231113x1abee322m37d79f82f6cb02ed@mail.gmail.com> On 1/23/07, Kristian H?gsberg wrote: > Ralf Corsepius wrote: > > On Tue, 2007-01-23 at 11:57 -0500, Kristian H?gsberg wrote: > >> Ralf Corsepius wrote: > >>> On Tue, 2007-01-23 at 08:25 -0500, Jesse Keating wrote: > >>>> On Tuesday 23 January 2007 01:44, Ralf Corsepius wrote: > My point was that git certainly isn't the exotic curiosity you try to paint it > as. It's way beyond critical mass and I'd wager at least as stable as CVS at > this point. Another point is that these projects likely care more about VCS > than your average sourceforge project does, and as such have made much more > informed decisions about this than the many projects out there that have just > gone with the default lowest common denominator. I think in general the idea has been distributed SCM vs non-distributed SCM. Some of us have been looking at git and hg on the distributed side and IIRC, the general consensus is that git is just very unpolished at this point. -Mike From seg at haxxed.com Tue Jan 23 19:15:28 2007 From: seg at haxxed.com (Callum Lerwick) Date: Tue, 23 Jan 2007 13:15:28 -0600 Subject: CNR on Fedora? In-Reply-To: <200701231220.46791.dennis@ausil.us> References: <1169575445.27761.7.camel@localhost.localdomain> <200701231220.46791.dennis@ausil.us> Message-ID: <1169579728.27761.19.camel@localhost.localdomain> On Tue, 2007-01-23 at 12:20 -0600, Dennis Gilmore wrote: > On Tuesday 23 January 2007 12:04, Callum Lerwick wrote: > > Have they actually talked to anyone in Fedora about this yet? > First ive heard of it so i doubt they have talked with anyone. if they had it > would have come up before now. The FAQ claims they have, in the usual manner of corporate secrecy. If true, let the flames begin. > cnr.com makes it look like they plan to add extra stuff to what in Fedora > already . http://www.cnr.com/screenshots.html shows how they say it will > work. > > > If they're usurping our packages and repos, then we have a problem... > That could be a very big problem. Hmmm, the last image, plus the bullet point of having server farms with phat pipes in the FAQ, says they *do* in fact intend to completely bypass our mirrors, repos *and* yum. Not good. Will their tool be checking for our package signatures? -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: signature.asc Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 189 bytes Desc: This is a digitally signed message part URL: From smooge at gmail.com Tue Jan 23 19:19:33 2007 From: smooge at gmail.com (Stephen John Smoogen) Date: Tue, 23 Jan 2007 12:19:33 -0700 Subject: dkms for fc7? In-Reply-To: <20070123121454.GA6421@lists.us.dell.com> References: <20070119153556.7bf08b28@python3.es.egwn.lan> <45B4B356.3000108@leemhuis.info> <20070123121454.GA6421@lists.us.dell.com> Message-ID: <80d7e4090701231119x333c0226g156a024e6441232b@mail.gmail.com> On 1/23/07, Matt Domsch wrote: > On Mon, Jan 22, 2007 at 01:51:34PM +0100, Thorsten Leemhuis wrote: > > I hope we (Spot, mdomsch, Jon Masters, /me, maybe some others) can sit > > down on the hackfest after fudon and work out a rough concept for the > > future. > > I'd be happy to do so. One of the things I need DKMS to do in the > near future is to generate the new kernel module packages > http://www.kerneldrivers.org/RedHatKernelModulePackages which is > almost as wasy as dropping a new kmp spec file template in and calling > 'dkms mkkmp' on it. Then the init-time autobuilder (or better yet, a > hook into /sbin/installkernel!!) could do the rebuild into srpm and > binrpm and install that. I'm very open to changing the packaging > format, but the killer feature is the autobuilder when weak modules or > pre-built modules aren't present for "your kernel". > > In the past we've also gotten bit by rpm holding the database lock > running %post, so a dkms driver rpm that discovers at install time in > %post that it needs to build and install something can't actually > generate and install an RPM because that would be recursive. > I solved that in the most ugly way in the past: at/cron Evil Evil Evil, but works. -- Stephen J Smoogen. -- CSIRT/Linux System Administrator How far that little candle throws his beams! So shines a good deed in a naughty world. = Shakespeare. "The Merchant of Venice" From jwboyer at jdub.homelinux.org Tue Jan 23 19:26:33 2007 From: jwboyer at jdub.homelinux.org (Josh Boyer) Date: Tue, 23 Jan 2007 13:26:33 -0600 Subject: New VCS Choice; SCM SIG In-Reply-To: <3237e4410701231113x1abee322m37d79f82f6cb02ed@mail.gmail.com> References: <1169160615.14225.127.camel@localhost.localdomain> <1169533624.6687.203.camel@localhost.localdomain> <1169534670.6751.39.camel@mccallum.corsepiu.local> <200701230825.59771.jkeating@redhat.com> <1169560855.6751.78.camel@mccallum.corsepiu.local> <45B63E96.2070300@redhat.com> <1169576307.6751.131.camel@mccallum.corsepiu.local> <45B65C37.5020509@redhat.com> <3237e4410701231113x1abee322m37d79f82f6cb02ed@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <1169580393.6693.27.camel@zod.rchland.ibm.com> On Tue, 2007-01-23 at 13:13 -0600, Mike McGrath wrote: > On 1/23/07, Kristian H?gsberg wrote: > > Ralf Corsepius wrote: > > > On Tue, 2007-01-23 at 11:57 -0500, Kristian H?gsberg wrote: > > >> Ralf Corsepius wrote: > > >>> On Tue, 2007-01-23 at 08:25 -0500, Jesse Keating wrote: > > >>>> On Tuesday 23 January 2007 01:44, Ralf Corsepius wrote: > > My point was that git certainly isn't the exotic curiosity you try to paint it > > as. It's way beyond critical mass and I'd wager at least as stable as CVS at > > this point. Another point is that these projects likely care more about VCS > > than your average sourceforge project does, and as such have made much more > > informed decisions about this than the many projects out there that have just > > gone with the default lowest common denominator. > > > I think in general the idea has been distributed SCM vs > non-distributed SCM. Some of us have been looking at git and hg on > the distributed side and IIRC, the general consensus is that git is > just very unpolished at this point. Git and hg can both be used in a non-distributed fashion. It's not one or the other with those, whereas CVS and SVN are centralized only. Just another point to keep clear. I have no problems with git, but the learning curve can be steep. Which is why anything should be wrappered with the makefile targets as it is today. (e.g. make tag) josh From krh at redhat.com Tue Jan 23 19:25:24 2007 From: krh at redhat.com (=?UTF-8?B?S3Jpc3RpYW4gSMO4Z3NiZXJn?=) Date: Tue, 23 Jan 2007 14:25:24 -0500 Subject: New VCS Choice; SCM SIG In-Reply-To: <3237e4410701231113x1abee322m37d79f82f6cb02ed@mail.gmail.com> References: <1169160615.14225.127.camel@localhost.localdomain> <1169533624.6687.203.camel@localhost.localdomain> <1169534670.6751.39.camel@mccallum.corsepiu.local> <200701230825.59771.jkeating@redhat.com> <1169560855.6751.78.camel@mccallum.corsepiu.local> <45B63E96.2070300@redhat.com> <1169576307.6751.131.camel@mccallum.corsepiu.local> <45B65C37.5020509@redhat.com> <3237e4410701231113x1abee322m37d79f82f6cb02ed@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <45B66124.2080702@redhat.com> Mike McGrath wrote: > On 1/23/07, Kristian H?gsberg wrote: >> Ralf Corsepius wrote: >> > On Tue, 2007-01-23 at 11:57 -0500, Kristian H?gsberg wrote: >> >> Ralf Corsepius wrote: >> >>> On Tue, 2007-01-23 at 08:25 -0500, Jesse Keating wrote: >> >>>> On Tuesday 23 January 2007 01:44, Ralf Corsepius wrote: >> My point was that git certainly isn't the exotic curiosity you try to >> paint it >> as. It's way beyond critical mass and I'd wager at least as stable as >> CVS at >> this point. Another point is that these projects likely care more >> about VCS >> than your average sourceforge project does, and as such have made much >> more >> informed decisions about this than the many projects out there that >> have just >> gone with the default lowest common denominator. > > I think in general the idea has been distributed SCM vs > non-distributed SCM. Some of us have been looking at git and hg on > the distributed side and IIRC, the general consensus is that git is > just very unpolished at this point. Yes, there's the overall decision about wether we go for a non-distributed or a distributed system. And I think that *that's* where there is consencus right now, specifically that it doesn't make sense to switch unless we go for a distributed system (viz the GNOME disaster). However, I don't know of any consensus towards hg. I know that Jesse wasn't impressed when he did the dist-git prototype, but I think he judged it too quickly. As I see it, git has a lot more buy-in from the upstream open source projects that we package and ship in fedora, and a lot of packagers are also upstream developers and know git already. Name *any* open source project that we ship that is developed in hg? One of the big arguments against distributed version control systems is that "there are so many, clearly it must still be an academic experiment". Now that git is finally gaining momentum, do we really want to diffuse that by picking hg for such a high profile conversion? And with the 1.5.0 release coming out any day now, a lot of the user interface warts have been fixed. Kristian From jwboyer at jdub.homelinux.org Tue Jan 23 19:33:41 2007 From: jwboyer at jdub.homelinux.org (Josh Boyer) Date: Tue, 23 Jan 2007 13:33:41 -0600 Subject: New VCS Choice; SCM SIG In-Reply-To: <45B66124.2080702@redhat.com> References: <1169160615.14225.127.camel@localhost.localdomain> <1169533624.6687.203.camel@localhost.localdomain> <1169534670.6751.39.camel@mccallum.corsepiu.local> <200701230825.59771.jkeating@redhat.com> <1169560855.6751.78.camel@mccallum.corsepiu.local> <45B63E96.2070300@redhat.com> <1169576307.6751.131.camel@mccallum.corsepiu.local> <45B65C37.5020509@redhat.com> <3237e4410701231113x1abee322m37d79f82f6cb02ed@mail.gmail.com> <45B66124.2080702@redhat.com> Message-ID: <1169580821.6693.29.camel@zod.rchland.ibm.com> On Tue, 2007-01-23 at 14:25 -0500, Kristian H?gsberg wrote: > upstream developers and know git already. Name *any* open source project that > we ship that is developed in hg? One of the big arguments against distributed xen josh From sundaram at fedoraproject.org Tue Jan 23 19:35:58 2007 From: sundaram at fedoraproject.org (Rahul Sundaram) Date: Wed, 24 Jan 2007 01:05:58 +0530 Subject: New VCS Choice; SCM SIG In-Reply-To: <45B66124.2080702@redhat.com> References: <1169160615.14225.127.camel@localhost.localdomain> <1169533624.6687.203.camel@localhost.localdomain> <1169534670.6751.39.camel@mccallum.corsepiu.local> <200701230825.59771.jkeating@redhat.com> <1169560855.6751.78.camel@mccallum.corsepiu.local> <45B63E96.2070300@redhat.com> <1169576307.6751.131.camel@mccallum.corsepiu.local> <45B65C37.5020509@redhat.com> <3237e4410701231113x1abee322m37d79f82f6cb02ed@mail.gmail.com> <45B66124.2080702@redhat.com> Message-ID: <45B6639E.10505@fedoraproject.org> Kristian H?gsberg wrote: > However, I don't know of any consensus towards hg. I know that Jesse > wasn't impressed when he did the dist-git prototype, but I think he > judged it too quickly. As I see it, git has a lot more buy-in from the > upstream open source projects that we package and ship in fedora, and a > lot of packagers are also upstream developers and know git already. > Name *any* open source project that we ship that is developed in hg? > One of the big arguments against distributed version control systems is > that "there are so many, clearly it must still be an academic > experiment". Now that git is finally gaining momentum, do we really > want to diffuse that by picking hg for such a high profile conversion? > And with the 1.5.0 release coming out any day now, a lot of the user > interface warts have been fixed. We dont be diffusing things really. There is one single strong player in the distributed SCM field. Xen, RPM, Pungi, OLPC and many others are already using Mercurial. Also see http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Infrastructure/VersionControl Rahul From alan at redhat.com Tue Jan 23 19:56:49 2007 From: alan at redhat.com (Alan Cox) Date: Tue, 23 Jan 2007 14:56:49 -0500 Subject: New VCS Choice; SCM SIG In-Reply-To: <1169580821.6693.29.camel@zod.rchland.ibm.com> References: <1169533624.6687.203.camel@localhost.localdomain> <1169534670.6751.39.camel@mccallum.corsepiu.local> <200701230825.59771.jkeating@redhat.com> <1169560855.6751.78.camel@mccallum.corsepiu.local> <45B63E96.2070300@redhat.com> <1169576307.6751.131.camel@mccallum.corsepiu.local> <45B65C37.5020509@redhat.com> <3237e4410701231113x1abee322m37d79f82f6cb02ed@mail.gmail.com> <45B66124.2080702@redhat.com> <1169580821.6693.29.camel@zod.rchland.ibm.com> Message-ID: <20070123195649.GA20706@devserv.devel.redhat.com> On Tue, Jan 23, 2007 at 01:33:41PM -0600, Josh Boyer wrote: > On Tue, 2007-01-23 at 14:25 -0500, Kristian H?gsberg wrote: > > upstream developers and know git already. Name *any* open source project that > > we ship that is developed in hg? One of the big arguments against distributed > > xen Also chunks of the kernel From mmcgrath at fedoraproject.org Tue Jan 23 20:01:17 2007 From: mmcgrath at fedoraproject.org (Mike McGrath) Date: Tue, 23 Jan 2007 14:01:17 -0600 Subject: New VCS Choice; SCM SIG In-Reply-To: <45B66124.2080702@redhat.com> References: <1169160615.14225.127.camel@localhost.localdomain> <1169533624.6687.203.camel@localhost.localdomain> <1169534670.6751.39.camel@mccallum.corsepiu.local> <200701230825.59771.jkeating@redhat.com> <1169560855.6751.78.camel@mccallum.corsepiu.local> <45B63E96.2070300@redhat.com> <1169576307.6751.131.camel@mccallum.corsepiu.local> <45B65C37.5020509@redhat.com> <3237e4410701231113x1abee322m37d79f82f6cb02ed@mail.gmail.com> <45B66124.2080702@redhat.com> Message-ID: <3237e4410701231201v18397e8eydd3f05e822fd946a@mail.gmail.com> On 1/23/07, Kristian H?gsberg wrote: > > However, I don't know of any consensus towards hg. I know that Jesse wasn't > impressed when he did the dist-git prototype, but I think he judged it too > quickly. Almost NO ONE bothered to actually aid Jesse in his evaluation of the various SCM's. I didn't have a single email from anyone regarding the SVN repo I set up for eval. This decision is getting made by the people participating, not by those talking about it. -Mike From tibbs at math.uh.edu Tue Jan 23 20:20:09 2007 From: tibbs at math.uh.edu (Jason L Tibbitts III) Date: 23 Jan 2007 14:20:09 -0600 Subject: New VCS Choice; SCM SIG In-Reply-To: <3237e4410701231201v18397e8eydd3f05e822fd946a@mail.gmail.com> References: <1169160615.14225.127.camel@localhost.localdomain> <1169533624.6687.203.camel@localhost.localdomain> <1169534670.6751.39.camel@mccallum.corsepiu.local> <200701230825.59771.jkeating@redhat.com> <1169560855.6751.78.camel@mccallum.corsepiu.local> <45B63E96.2070300@redhat.com> <1169576307.6751.131.camel@mccallum.corsepiu.local> <45B65C37.5020509@redhat.com> <3237e4410701231113x1abee322m37d79f82f6cb02ed@mail.gmail.com> <45B66124.2080702@redhat.com> <3237e4410701231201v18397e8eydd3f05e822fd946a@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: >>>>> "MM" == Mike McGrath writes: MM> Almost NO ONE bothered to actually aid Jesse in his evaluation of MM> the various SCM's. I didn't have a single email from anyone MM> regarding the SVN repo I set up for eval. Part of the problem, for me at least, is that I don't actually know how to use any of the other SCM's, and certainly not in the context of Fedora. (OK, I guess I can use SVN well enough because it mostly acts like CVS. But the distributed stuff seems like deep weirdness to me at this point because I've had no use for it.) So how do I check out my packages from the eval SCM systems? How do I edit files (if it's more than just firing up an editor)? How do I get diffs between what's in the repo and what I just edited? How do I tag things for the buildsys? Show me something cool I can do that I can't in the old system. Part of the problem is that for our purposes, CVS really seems to work well enough. Sure, it's not great, but really it's not the thing people complain about. - J< From romieu at fr.zoreil.com Tue Jan 23 20:39:14 2007 From: romieu at fr.zoreil.com (Francois Romieu) Date: Tue, 23 Jan 2007 21:39:14 +0100 Subject: New VCS Choice; SCM SIG In-Reply-To: <3237e4410701230929x782ebb7fl1504034598b0f547@mail.gmail.com> References: <1169160615.14225.127.camel@localhost.localdomain> <1169533624.6687.203.camel@localhost.localdomain> <1169534670.6751.39.camel@mccallum.corsepiu.local> <200701230825.59771.jkeating@redhat.com> <1169560855.6751.78.camel@mccallum.corsepiu.local> <15194.192.54.193.51.1169565637.squirrel@rousalka.dyndns.org> <1169568196.6751.101.camel@mccallum.corsepiu.local> <1169573018.6693.16.camel@zod.rchland.ibm.com> <3237e4410701230929x782ebb7fl1504034598b0f547@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <20070123203914.GA6478@electric-eye.fr.zoreil.com> Mike McGrath : [...] > Its actually not that bad - > > # du -sh extras > 2.0G extras > # du -sh dist > 1.7G dist Is this supposed to be the total size of the ,v files ? -- Ueimor From mmcgrath at fedoraproject.org Tue Jan 23 20:46:55 2007 From: mmcgrath at fedoraproject.org (Mike McGrath) Date: Tue, 23 Jan 2007 14:46:55 -0600 Subject: New VCS Choice; SCM SIG In-Reply-To: <20070123203914.GA6478@electric-eye.fr.zoreil.com> References: <1169160615.14225.127.camel@localhost.localdomain> <1169533624.6687.203.camel@localhost.localdomain> <1169534670.6751.39.camel@mccallum.corsepiu.local> <200701230825.59771.jkeating@redhat.com> <1169560855.6751.78.camel@mccallum.corsepiu.local> <15194.192.54.193.51.1169565637.squirrel@rousalka.dyndns.org> <1169568196.6751.101.camel@mccallum.corsepiu.local> <1169573018.6693.16.camel@zod.rchland.ibm.com> <3237e4410701230929x782ebb7fl1504034598b0f547@mail.gmail.com> <20070123203914.GA6478@electric-eye.fr.zoreil.com> Message-ID: <3237e4410701231246mfc944d8m505850239933280@mail.gmail.com> On 1/23/07, Francois Romieu wrote: > Mike McGrath : > [...] > > Its actually not that bad - > > > > # du -sh extras > > 2.0G extras > > # du -sh dist > > 1.7G dist > > Is this supposed to be the total size of the ,v files ? > Thats the total size of the two cvs repos on cvs.fedoraproject.org (which yes includes the ,v files) -Mike From a.badger at gmail.com Tue Jan 23 20:55:21 2007 From: a.badger at gmail.com (Toshio Kuratomi) Date: Tue, 23 Jan 2007 12:55:21 -0800 Subject: New VCS Choice; SCM SIG In-Reply-To: References: <1169160615.14225.127.camel@localhost.localdomain> <1169533624.6687.203.camel@localhost.localdomain> <1169534670.6751.39.camel@mccallum.corsepiu.local> <200701230825.59771.jkeating@redhat.com> <1169560855.6751.78.camel@mccallum.corsepiu.local> <45B63E96.2070300@redhat.com> <1169576307.6751.131.camel@mccallum.corsepiu.local> <45B65C37.5020509@redhat.com> <3237e4410701231113x1abee322m37d79f82f6cb02ed@mail.gmail.com> <45B66124.2080702@redhat.com> <3237e4410701231201v18397e8eydd3f05e822fd946a@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <1169585721.5106.24.camel@localhost.localdomain> On Tue, 2007-01-23 at 14:20 -0600, Jason L Tibbitts III wrote: > Part of the problem is that for our purposes, CVS really seems to work > well enough. Sure, it's not great, but really it's not the thing > people complain about. Exactly. I think it's premature to be talking about whether git is better than hg or how stinky cvs really is. We need to define what we want to achieve by moving to something else. What new workflow do we want to enable? Do we want to prioritize cooperation with upstreams? Do we want people to have private branches? That can build to sandboxes? What pie-in-the-sky can you come up with that the package SCM can do for us? Then we can come up with ways to implement them in the various SCMs. Without knowing what our priorities are, we'll forever know that our present system "works" and any one of five new systems could be "better". -Toshio -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: signature.asc Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 189 bytes Desc: This is a digitally signed message part URL: From tibbs at math.uh.edu Tue Jan 23 21:11:22 2007 From: tibbs at math.uh.edu (Jason L Tibbitts III) Date: 23 Jan 2007 15:11:22 -0600 Subject: New VCS Choice; SCM SIG In-Reply-To: <1169585721.5106.24.camel@localhost.localdomain> References: <1169160615.14225.127.camel@localhost.localdomain> <1169533624.6687.203.camel@localhost.localdomain> <1169534670.6751.39.camel@mccallum.corsepiu.local> <200701230825.59771.jkeating@redhat.com> <1169560855.6751.78.camel@mccallum.corsepiu.local> <45B63E96.2070300@redhat.com> <1169576307.6751.131.camel@mccallum.corsepiu.local> <45B65C37.5020509@redhat.com> <3237e4410701231113x1abee322m37d79f82f6cb02ed@mail.gmail.com> <45B66124.2080702@redhat.com> <3237e4410701231201v18397e8eydd3f05e822fd946a@mail.gmail.com> <1169585721.5106.24.camel@localhost.localdomain> Message-ID: >>>>> "TK" == Toshio Kuratomi writes: TK> Do we want people to have private branches? That can build to TK> sandboxes? To me this and speed are the only things of real importance that we can't get from the SCM as it is. But really we can't talk about the SCM without talking about how the buildsys ties into it, and perhaps the package database as well. At the moment the one thing I can't do is push private builds through the buildsys. Say I'm trying to debug something for a PPC user. (Note that I haven't a PPC machine around.) Right now the only thing I can really do is to stick an SRPM in my personal webspace and ask them to build it. I suppose I could figure out how to create a branch in CVS and then ask them to check it out and do "make ppc", but frankly I haven't enough confidence in CVS that I want to attempt that kind of thing. I want to make a quick "ppc_test" branch, modify some source, have the buildsys actually chew on it, and stick a package somewhere. If it actually shows up in a real repo that I can point a couple of testers at, even better. - J< From a.badger at gmail.com Tue Jan 23 20:31:29 2007 From: a.badger at gmail.com (Toshio Kuratomi) Date: Tue, 23 Jan 2007 12:31:29 -0800 Subject: New VCS Choice; SCM SIG In-Reply-To: <3237e4410701231201v18397e8eydd3f05e822fd946a@mail.gmail.com> References: <1169160615.14225.127.camel@localhost.localdomain> <1169533624.6687.203.camel@localhost.localdomain> <1169534670.6751.39.camel@mccallum.corsepiu.local> <200701230825.59771.jkeating@redhat.com> <1169560855.6751.78.camel@mccallum.corsepiu.local> <45B63E96.2070300@redhat.com> <1169576307.6751.131.camel@mccallum.corsepiu.local> <45B65C37.5020509@redhat.com> <3237e4410701231113x1abee322m37d79f82f6cb02ed@mail.gmail.com> <45B66124.2080702@redhat.com> <3237e4410701231201v18397e8eydd3f05e822fd946a@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <1169584289.5106.14.camel@localhost.localdomain> On Tue, 2007-01-23 at 14:01 -0600, Mike McGrath wrote: > On 1/23/07, Kristian H?gsberg wrote: > > > > > However, I don't know of any consensus towards hg. I know that Jesse wasn't > > impressed when he did the dist-git prototype, but I think he judged it too > > quickly. > > Almost NO ONE bothered to actually aid Jesse in his evaluation of the > various SCM's. I didn't have a single email from anyone regarding the > SVN repo I set up for eval. This decision is getting made by the > people participating, not by those talking about it. This needs a tiny bit of clarifying. We do need to be looking at what the consumers of the SCM want. Of course if none of the consumers give us feedback we can implement whatever we want :-) -Toshio -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: signature.asc Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 189 bytes Desc: This is a digitally signed message part URL: From jwboyer at jdub.homelinux.org Tue Jan 23 21:31:22 2007 From: jwboyer at jdub.homelinux.org (Josh Boyer) Date: Tue, 23 Jan 2007 15:31:22 -0600 Subject: New VCS Choice; SCM SIG In-Reply-To: <3237e4410701231201v18397e8eydd3f05e822fd946a@mail.gmail.com> References: <1169160615.14225.127.camel@localhost.localdomain> <1169533624.6687.203.camel@localhost.localdomain> <1169534670.6751.39.camel@mccallum.corsepiu.local> <200701230825.59771.jkeating@redhat.com> <1169560855.6751.78.camel@mccallum.corsepiu.local> <45B63E96.2070300@redhat.com> <1169576307.6751.131.camel@mccallum.corsepiu.local> <45B65C37.5020509@redhat.com> <3237e4410701231113x1abee322m37d79f82f6cb02ed@mail.gmail.com> <45B66124.2080702@redhat.com> <3237e4410701231201v18397e8eydd3f05e822fd946a@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <1169587882.7011.12.camel@zod.rchland.ibm.com> On Tue, 2007-01-23 at 14:01 -0600, Mike McGrath wrote: > On 1/23/07, Kristian H?gsberg wrote: > > > > > However, I don't know of any consensus towards hg. I know that Jesse wasn't > > impressed when he did the dist-git prototype, but I think he judged it too > > quickly. > > Almost NO ONE bothered to actually aid Jesse in his evaluation of the > various SCM's. I didn't have a single email from anyone regarding the > SVN repo I set up for eval. This decision is getting made by the > people participating, not by those talking about it. Well... a couple people asked to help. But at the time Jesse did the eval, the xen instances weren't public. /me shrugs josh From jkeating at redhat.com Tue Jan 23 21:40:14 2007 From: jkeating at redhat.com (Jesse Keating) Date: Tue, 23 Jan 2007 16:40:14 -0500 Subject: New VCS Choice; SCM SIG In-Reply-To: <1169587882.7011.12.camel@zod.rchland.ibm.com> References: <1169160615.14225.127.camel@localhost.localdomain> <3237e4410701231201v18397e8eydd3f05e822fd946a@mail.gmail.com> <1169587882.7011.12.camel@zod.rchland.ibm.com> Message-ID: <200701231640.17307.jkeating@redhat.com> On Tuesday 23 January 2007 16:31, Josh Boyer wrote: > Well... a couple people asked to help. ?But at the time Jesse did the > eval, the xen instances weren't public. > > /me shrugs No, they were. The wiki page even gives information about how to get access to them. -- Jesse Keating Release Engineer: Fedora -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 189 bytes Desc: not available URL: From bojan at rexursive.com Tue Jan 23 21:48:30 2007 From: bojan at rexursive.com (Bojan Smojver) Date: Tue, 23 Jan 2007 21:48:30 +0000 (UTC) Subject: CNR on Fedora? References: <1169575445.27761.7.camel@localhost.localdomain> Message-ID: Callum Lerwick haxxed.com> writes: > If they're usurping our packages and repos, then we have a problem... If by "usurping" you mean "distribute in violation of the licence", then they will get in trouble with the copyright holders. But, I doubt they would do anything like that. Or did "usurping" mean something else here? -- Bojan From bojan at rexursive.com Tue Jan 23 22:21:31 2007 From: bojan at rexursive.com (Bojan Smojver) Date: Tue, 23 Jan 2007 22:21:31 +0000 (UTC) Subject: "yum update" failure and resulting cleanup headaches. References: <1169529797.24378.14.camel@dragon.valuecommerce.ne.jp> Message-ID: Naoki valuecommerce.com> writes: > At which point the manual repair of the RPM DB needs to take place, a long and > tedious task. At best even if you have the procedure as a (almost) single > command line, it can be annoying. > Any official plans to have yum gracefully recover from a failed update? There were e-mails floating around with recipes how to do this (some of which I had to use myself on screwed machines with duplicated packages (which can be especially painful on mixed architecture machines)). I think some of those recipes were by the yum man himself (SV). Maybe Seth can whip up a quick bash script together that would do this officially and be part of the yum package? -- Bojan From bojan at rexursive.com Tue Jan 23 22:41:24 2007 From: bojan at rexursive.com (Bojan Smojver) Date: Tue, 23 Jan 2007 22:41:24 +0000 (UTC) Subject: "yum update" failure and resulting cleanup headaches. References: <1169529797.24378.14.camel@dragon.valuecommerce.ne.jp> Message-ID: Bojan Smojver rexursive.com> writes: > Maybe Seth can whip up a quick bash script together that would do this > officially and be part of the yum package? Apologies. I see this has already been done with yum-utils, but yours truly is a bit slow on the uptake :-( More coffee needed, I guess... -- Bojan From romieu at fr.zoreil.com Tue Jan 23 23:23:52 2007 From: romieu at fr.zoreil.com (Francois Romieu) Date: Wed, 24 Jan 2007 00:23:52 +0100 Subject: New VCS Choice; SCM SIG In-Reply-To: <45B6639E.10505@fedoraproject.org> References: <1169533624.6687.203.camel@localhost.localdomain> <1169534670.6751.39.camel@mccallum.corsepiu.local> <200701230825.59771.jkeating@redhat.com> <1169560855.6751.78.camel@mccallum.corsepiu.local> <45B63E96.2070300@redhat.com> <1169576307.6751.131.camel@mccallum.corsepiu.local> <45B65C37.5020509@redhat.com> <3237e4410701231113x1abee322m37d79f82f6cb02ed@mail.gmail.com> <45B66124.2080702@redhat.com> <45B6639E.10505@fedoraproject.org> Message-ID: <20070123232352.GB6478@electric-eye.fr.zoreil.com> Rahul Sundaram : [...] > already using Mercurial. Also see > http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Infrastructure/VersionControl FWIW: Mercurial Pros: * It appears possible to have representations of one thing be a copy of another directory or repository on the same mercurial server that maintains history and everything. This could be useful. -> From the description, .git/objects/info/alternates could be advertised as a similar feature for git. * Mercurial developers are willing to add missing functionality if that makes sense. -> A 'grep -i fedora' on my archives of the git mailing list suggests that this kind of question has not been raised here. As usual, the mailing-list is very valuable. -> The disk requirements of git deserves more explanations than a terse "Higher disk space requirements" in the Cons section. Is it a matter of running 'git repack' from time to time or something else, _lots_ of branches/refs ? -> http://www.opensolaris.org/os/community/tools/scm/git-eval.txt is outdated. It speaks of git version 1.2.4 which dates back to 03/2006 while the 1.4.x branch is used since 06/2006. -- Ueimor From wart at kobold.org Wed Jan 24 00:14:32 2007 From: wart at kobold.org (Michael Thomas) Date: Tue, 23 Jan 2007 16:14:32 -0800 Subject: Rawhide: kernel panic 2.6.19-1.2912.fc7 (but not in VMware) In-Reply-To: <20070122205814.GA6063@jadzia.bu.edu> References: <20070122205814.GA6063@jadzia.bu.edu> Message-ID: <45B6A4E8.4020303@kobold.org> Matthew Miller wrote: > On Sun, Jan 21, 2007 at 02:56:32PM +0100, Vnpenguin wrote: >> I use VMplayer to run FC6 guest OS on Windows XP. Yesterday, I >> upgraded FC6 to FC7 (rawhide). Upgrading process is ok , but now I >> can't boot with kernel 2.6.19-1.2912.fc7: > > I've been coasting along with Rawhide for quite some time, but now, starting > with the 2.6.19 kernels, I have a similar problem. I've got boot on > /dev/sda1 and /dev/sda2 is a phyiscal volume with everything else in lvm > (logical volumes in volume group "vg0"). 2.6.18-1.2849.fc6 works fine, but > all of the 2.6.19s I've tried, including 2.6.19-1.2912.fc7, say that they > can't find any logical volume groups and then promptly panic. Right before > that, I see the scsi probes, and it seems to be finding the physical disk. > > Haven't had time to figure this out, but I thought I'd throw the data out > there. I've seen this problem with 2.6.19 kernels, too, and it usually goes away if I reboot a second time. That might work for you, too, until a proper fix is available. --Wart From grgoffe at yahoo.com Wed Jan 24 01:47:10 2007 From: grgoffe at yahoo.com (George R Goffe) Date: Tue, 23 Jan 2007 17:47:10 -0800 (PST) Subject: Plugin "tsflags" uses deprecated constant TYPE_INTERFACE. Message-ID: <86299.65609.qm@web53106.mail.yahoo.com> Howdy, Is anyone aware of this message from the tsflags plugin? George... yum update Loading "skip-broken" plugin Loading "protectbase" plugin Loading "installonlyn" plugin Loading "fastestmirror" plugin Loading "changelog" plugin Loading "kernel-module" plugin Loading "downloadonly" plugin Plugin "tsflags" uses deprecated constant TYPE_INTERFACE. Please use TYPE_INTERACTIVE instead. Loading "tsflags" plugin Loading "priorities" plugin Loading "allowdowngrade" plugin Loading "fedorakmod" plugin Setting up Update Process Setting up repositories core 100% |=========================| 1.1 kB 00:00 extras 100% |=========================| 1.1 kB 00:00 updates 100% |=========================| 1.2 kB 00:00 Loading mirror speeds from cached hostfile Reading repository metadata in from local files 0 packages excluded due to repository protections 0 packages excluded due to repository priority protections No Packages marked for Update/Obsoletion ===== _/_/_/_/ _/_/_/_/ _/_/_/_/ _/_/_/ _/_/_/_/ _/_/_/_/ ----- _/ _/ _/ _/ _/ _/ _/ _/ _/ _/_/ _/_/_/_/ _/ _/ _/_/_/ _/ _/_/ _/_/_/_/ ----- _/ _/ _/ _/ _/ _/ _/ _/ _/ _/ _/_/_/_/ _/_/_/_/ _/_/_/_/ _/ _/ _/_/_/_/ _/_/_/_/ ----- "It's not what you know that hurts you, It's what you know that ain't so." Will Rogers ____________________________________________________________________________________ Looking for earth-friendly autos? Browse Top Cars by "Green Rating" at Yahoo! Autos' Green Center. http://autos.yahoo.com/green_center/ From chris at idlelion.net Wed Jan 24 04:41:43 2007 From: chris at idlelion.net (Chris Schumann) Date: Tue, 23 Jan 2007 22:41:43 -0600 Subject: Sound on ThinkPad 600X In-Reply-To: <20070123170004.7643B73418@hormel.redhat.com> References: <20070123170004.7643B73418@hormel.redhat.com> Message-ID: <000001c73f71$f300f8d0$6417a8c0@piv17> > Date: Tue, 23 Jan 2007 18:23:23 +0300 > From: Dmitry Butskoy > chris at idlelion.net wrote: > > > I can get sound back by logging out (gnome-session holds the module > > open), rmmod and modprobe in a console, and logging in. > > Try to play with "alsactl power", see > https://bugzilla.redhat.com/bugzilla/show_bug.cgi?id=155705 > it could prevent you from re-session of gnome etc. > > If it will solve the issue, you can add a needed script under > /etc/pm/hooks ("pm-utils" package) etc... > > Dmitry Butskoy > http://www.fedoraproject.org/wiki/DmitryButskoy Many thanks, Dmitry. I see you are well familiar with this issue. When I try "alsactl power", I get "alsactl: Unknown command 'power'..." so I don't think that will work for me. I'd also like this to work for anyone who wants to install Fedora on their 600X. It was a very popular machine in its day, so there are a lot of them out there. How can I help make this easier for those folks? (and of course, I will probably install Fedora on them myself quite a few more times) And once again, is there a bug in the sound driver that needs to be crushed? Chris From michel.salim at gmail.com Wed Jan 24 05:54:08 2007 From: michel.salim at gmail.com (Michel Salim) Date: Wed, 24 Jan 2007 00:54:08 -0500 Subject: FC7-TARGET tracker and appropriate usage Message-ID: <883cfe6d0701232154w6112eb63p97fe49bb8c7dd2af@mail.gmail.com> 2007/1/21, Michel Salim : > f-spot also needs to be updated (bz #218579). Is there a meta-bug that > we could make update requests block? > > 2007/1/21, Michel Salim : > > Hi, > > > > I noticed when trying out the pre-built binaries for Chandler that > > Fedora still ships expat-1.95.8, while 2.0.0 has been out since > > January 2006. Is there a reason for this? I could not find any mention > > of this in the mailing list archive, but I apologise if this has been > > discussed before. > > > > On a slightly unrelated note, FLAC has also not been updated (bz #222946) > > I added both update requests to the FC7Target tracker (bz# 150225). Right now it seems that there are only two main trackers: blocker and target. Would it be a good idea to start a third tracker for upgrade requests? The bugs I filed that I have in mind for this tracker are generally easy to close, and in one case (f-spot) there are even updated specs on the Bugzilla ticket. If someone thinks this is a good idea I can create the tracker and perhaps make it block FC7Target. Thanks, -- Michel Salim http://hircus.wordpress.com/ My theology, briefly, is that the universe was dictated but not signed. -- Christopher Morley From wenfeng.liu at gmail.com Tue Jan 23 04:45:57 2007 From: wenfeng.liu at gmail.com (Liu Wenfeng) Date: Tue, 23 Jan 2007 04:45:57 +0000 (UTC) Subject: Rawhide: kernel panic 2.6.19-1.2912.fc7 in VMware References: Message-ID: Vnpenguin vnoss.org> writes: > > Hi, > I use VMplayer to run FC6 guest OS on Windows XP. Yesterday, I > upgraded FC6 to FC7 (rawhide). Upgrading process is ok , but now I > can't boot with kernel 2.6.19-1.2912.fc7: > > ... > sda: assuming drive cache: write through > sda: sda1 sda2 > sd 0:0:0:0 Attached scsi disk sda > Unable to access resume device (LABEL=SWAP-sda2) > mount: could not find filesystem '/dev/root' > setuproot: moving /dev failed: No such file or directory > setuproot: error mounting /proc: No such file or directory > setuproot: error mounting /sys: No such file or directory > switchroot: mount failed: No such file or directory > Kernel panic - not syncing: Attempted to kill init! > > I can boot without any problem with FC6 latest updated kernel. > > Anyone has ideas to fix it ? > > Thank you, > I met the same issue on my system and worked it out by re-generate an initrd image with some more modules inclusion. The following is the command line for generating initrd-2.6.19.img: mkinitrd --force-ide-probe ?-force-scsi-probe --force-lvm-probe --with=uhci- hdc --with=ohci-hcd --with=ehci-hcd --with=jbd --with=ext3 --with=scsi_mod -? with=sd_mod --with=libata --with=ata_piix /boot/initrd-2.6.19.img 2.6.19 Wenfeng From pmatilai at laiskiainen.org Wed Jan 24 07:17:02 2007 From: pmatilai at laiskiainen.org (Panu Matilainen) Date: Wed, 24 Jan 2007 09:17:02 +0200 (EET) Subject: Plugin "tsflags" uses deprecated constant TYPE_INTERFACE. In-Reply-To: <86299.65609.qm@web53106.mail.yahoo.com> References: <86299.65609.qm@web53106.mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: On Tue, 23 Jan 2007, George R Goffe wrote: > Howdy, > > Is anyone aware of this message from the tsflags plugin? ... > Plugin "tsflags" uses deprecated constant TYPE_INTERFACE. > Please use TYPE_INTERACTIVE instead. Fixed in yum-utils CVS, thanks for noticing :) - Panu - From ich at frank-schmitt.net Wed Jan 24 08:01:04 2007 From: ich at frank-schmitt.net (Frank Schmitt) Date: Wed, 24 Jan 2007 09:01:04 +0100 Subject: FC7-TARGET tracker and appropriate usage References: <883cfe6d0701232154w6112eb63p97fe49bb8c7dd2af@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: "Michel Salim" writes: > I added both update requests to the FC7Target tracker (bz# 150225). > Right now it seems that there are only two main trackers: blocker and > target. Would it be a good idea to start a third tracker for upgrade > requests? The bugs I filed that I have in mind for this tracker are > generally easy to close, and in one case (f-spot) there are even > updated specs on the Bugzilla ticket. > > If someone thinks this is a good idea I can create the tracker and > perhaps make it block FC7Target. There's still a zsh in rawhide which is broken for all non-english users using UTF-8 locales. For me this is definitely a blocker bug, fixing it would just require an update to latest upstream release. https://bugzilla.redhat.com/bugzilla//show_bug.cgi?id=183557 -- Did you ever realize how much text fits in eighty columns? If you now consider that a signature usually consists of up to four lines, this gives you enough space to spread a tremendous amount of information with your messages. So seize this opportunity and don't waste your signature with bullshit nobody will read. From vnpenguin at vnoss.org Wed Jan 24 08:07:14 2007 From: vnpenguin at vnoss.org (Vnpenguin) Date: Wed, 24 Jan 2007 09:07:14 +0100 Subject: Rawhide: kernel panic 2.6.19-1.2912.fc7 in VMware In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: On 1/23/07, Liu Wenfeng wrote: > > > > I met the same issue on my system and worked it out by re-generate an initrd > image with some more modules inclusion. The following is the command line for > generating initrd-2.6.19.img: > > mkinitrd --force-ide-probe ?-force-scsi-probe --force-lvm-probe --with=uhci- > hdc --with=ohci-hcd --with=ehci-hcd --with=jbd --with=ext3 --with=scsi_mod -? > with=sd_mod --with=libata --with=ata_piix /boot/initrd-2.6.19.img 2.6.19 > With your command, I can boot now. But there are still errors (see attached dmesg) Thank you, -- http://vnoss.org -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: dmesg.zip Type: application/zip Size: 6399 bytes Desc: not available URL: From opensource at till.name Wed Jan 24 10:12:48 2007 From: opensource at till.name (Till Maas) Date: Wed, 24 Jan 2007 11:12:48 +0100 Subject: Fedora 7 encrypted root partition In-Reply-To: <20070119223754.GA23444@wolff.to> References: <1169231451.11652.5.camel@hughsie-laptop> <20070119223754.GA23444@wolff.to> Message-ID: <200701241112.49616.opensource@till.name> On Friday 19 January 2007 23:37, Bruno Wolff III wrote: > While Jermey brings up some issues in his response, there are a lot of > people that control the whole machine and don't need different encryption > for different files and for which being able to stack their preferred file > system with dmcrypt (and keeping things like write barriers working > properly) would be a good thing. I don't think you need X working to be For these people it may be worth to take a look at pam_mount which I use to mount an encrypted /home whenever I login. It uses the login password to open the encrypted partition and has a mount wrapper script that ensures that the filesystem is fscked regulary or when it is dirty. Regards, Till From bkoz at redhat.com Wed Jan 24 10:33:23 2007 From: bkoz at redhat.com (Benjamin Kosnik) Date: Wed, 24 Jan 2007 11:33:23 +0100 Subject: experimental boost-1.34.0-0.5 rpms Message-ID: <45B735F3.5090405@redhat.com> I've uploaded a src.rpm for boost-1.34.0, yet unreleased, to my people page. http://people.redhat.com/bkoz/boost-1.34.0/ I'm hoping to get some feedback on this rpm, and boost packaging changes, before checking this in to rawhide. In addition, I'm curious to see if there is anybody who would like to help maintain this package. Neal? Changes: 1) switch to boost build v2, attempt to remove as many build patches as possible. 2) building/distributing the -mt variants, and the resulting library name changes for libboost_thread to libboost_thread-mt. Unresolved: 1) More regression failures than acceptable, IMHO. Waiting for the final release seems like a good idea, but since that might be a while still, I thought I'd get a head start on the packaging issues. 2) boost book currently not building 3) version of SONAME, if any best, benjamin From caolanm at redhat.com Wed Jan 24 10:45:04 2007 From: caolanm at redhat.com (Caolan McNamara) Date: Wed, 24 Jan 2007 10:45:04 +0000 Subject: experimental boost-1.34.0-0.5 rpms In-Reply-To: <45B735F3.5090405@redhat.com> References: <45B735F3.5090405@redhat.com> Message-ID: <1169635505.2058.1.camel@soulcrusher.caolan.org> On Wed, 2007-01-24 at 11:33 +0100, Benjamin Kosnik wrote: > I've uploaded a src.rpm for boost-1.34.0, yet unreleased, to my people > page. > > http://people.redhat.com/bkoz/boost-1.34.0/ > > I'm hoping to get some feedback on this rpm, and boost packaging > changes, before checking this in to rawhide. OOo is a fairly extensive user of boost FWIW, a test rebuild of the last pushed rawhide OOo (for a fast smoketest undef langpacks in the .spec) would likely shake out any common problems. C. From bkoz at redhat.com Wed Jan 24 10:49:09 2007 From: bkoz at redhat.com (Benjamin Kosnik) Date: Wed, 24 Jan 2007 11:49:09 +0100 Subject: experimental boost-1.34.0-0.5 rpms In-Reply-To: <1169635505.2058.1.camel@soulcrusher.caolan.org> References: <45B735F3.5090405@redhat.com> <1169635505.2058.1.camel@soulcrusher.caolan.org> Message-ID: <45B739A5.7060006@redhat.com> > OOo is a fairly extensive user of boost FWIW, a test rebuild of the last > pushed rawhide OOo (for a fast smoketest undef langpacks in the .spec) > would likely shake out any common problems. Thanks. However, the boost library naming/renaming issue is something that I'd only like to do once: there's no point in changing up things and then reverting. For instance, the libboost_thread.so -> libboost_thread-mt.so change has already tripped up my monotone build smoketest. :( -benjamin From buc at odusz.so-cdu.ru Wed Jan 24 11:17:52 2007 From: buc at odusz.so-cdu.ru (Dmitry Butskoy) Date: Wed, 24 Jan 2007 14:17:52 +0300 Subject: Sound on ThinkPad 600X In-Reply-To: <000001c73f71$f300f8d0$6417a8c0@piv17> References: <20070123170004.7643B73418@hormel.redhat.com> <000001c73f71$f300f8d0$6417a8c0@piv17> Message-ID: <45B74060.5000209@odu.neva.ru> Chris Schumann wrote: >When I try "alsactl power", I get "alsactl: Unknown command 'power'..." so I >don't think that will work for me. > > =-O ... What version of "alsa-utils" you use? (alsa-utils-1.0.11 have this command, nevertheless it is not described in the man page). ~buc From buildsys at redhat.com Wed Jan 24 11:36:20 2007 From: buildsys at redhat.com (buildsys at redhat.com) Date: Wed, 24 Jan 2007 06:36:20 -0500 Subject: rawhide report: 20070124 changes Message-ID: <200701241136.l0OBaK73013924@hs20-bc2-6.build.redhat.com> Updated Packages: a2ps-4.13b-60.fc7 ----------------- * Tue Jan 23 2007 Tim Waugh 4.13b-60 - Force it to build by hacking the configure script. - Don't need rm patch. - Make scriptlets unconditionally succeed (bug #223674). * Fri Oct 27 2006 Tim Waugh - Build requires cups (bug #204119). * Wed Oct 25 2006 Tim Waugh - Make ogonkify build. anaconda-11.2.0.15-1 -------------------- * Tue Jan 23 2007 Jeremy Katz - 11.2.0.15-1 - Remove @everything parsing as promised - Package requirement fixes - Fix kickstart traceback (clumens, #223903) - Add more icons - Don't be too aggressive remaking device nodes - Fix rescue mode avahi-0.6.16-2.fc7 ------------------ * Tue Jan 23 2007 Jeremy Katz - 0.6.16-2 - nuke bogus avahi-sharp -> avahi-devel dep bash-3.2-4.fc7 -------------- * Tue Jan 23 2007 Tim Waugh 3.2-4 - Slightly better .bash_logout (bug #223960). bc-1.06-23 ---------- * Tue Jan 23 2007 Florian La Roche - scripts should never fail: rhbz#223677 * Mon Jan 22 2007 Thomas Woerner 1.06-22 - rebuild for ncurses * Wed Jul 12 2006 Jesse Keating - 1.06-21 - rebuild - add missing br automake bind-31:9.3.3-5.fc7 ------------------- * Tue Jan 23 2007 Adam Tkac 31:9.3.3-5.fc7 - package bind-libbind-devel has been marked as obsolete control-center-1:2.17.90-2.fc7 ------------------------------ * Tue Jan 23 2007 Matthias Clasen - 2.17.90-2 - Install gnomecc desktop file docbook-style-xsl-1.72.0-1.fc7 ------------------------------ * Tue Jan 23 2007 Tim Waugh 1.72.0-1 - 1.72.0. dvgrab-2.1-2.fc7 ---------------- * Tue Jan 23 2007 Jarod Wilson - 2.1-2 - It helps to set DESTDIR if you nuke makeinstall... * Tue Jan 23 2007 Jarod Wilson - 2.1-1 - New upstream release ed-0.4-1 -------- * Tue Jan 23 2007 Karsten Hopp 0.4-1 - new upstream version emacspeak-25-2.fc7 ------------------ * Wed Jan 24 2007 Jens Petersen - 25-2 - fix emacspeak-tcl-pkgreq-tclx.patch for ssh-outloud evolution-sharp-0.12.2-1.fc7 ---------------------------- * Tue Jan 23 2007 Matthew Barnes - 0.12.2-1.fc7 - Update to 0.12.2 guile-5:1.8.1-2.fc7 ------------------- * Tue Jan 23 2007 Miroslav Lichvar - 5:1.8.1-2 - support slib-3a4 - make scriptlets safer (#223701) hdparm-6.9-1 ------------ * Thu Jan 18 2007 Karsten Hopp 6.9-1 - update to 6.9 hwdata-0.195-1 -------------- * Tue Jan 23 2007 Karsten Hopp 0.195-1 - update pci.ids, usb.ids and build for FC-7 * Tue Jan 02 2007 Karsten Hopp 0.193-1 - Update to latest pci.ids/usb.ids for RHEL5 - Resolves: #220182 Add some Dell monitors to MonitorDB irda-utils-0.9.18-1.fc7 ----------------------- * Tue Jan 23 2007 Karsten Hopp 0.9.18-1 - update to 0.9.18 kernel-2.6.19-1.2913.fc7 ------------------------ * Tue Jan 23 2007 Jeremy Katz - temporarily restore START_ARRAY ioctl for mdraid so that we can have mdraid in test1 libtool-1.5.22-8 ---------------- * Mon Jan 22 2007 Karsten Hopp 1.5.22-8 - don't abort (un)install scriptlets when _excludedocs is set (#223708) * Thu Dec 07 2006 Karsten Hopp 1.5.22-7 - update config.guess, config.sub with newer files from automake-1.10 - skip over lines in /etc/ld.so.conf.d/* which don't look like absolute paths (p.e. files from kernel-xen). This avoids having unwanted relative paths in lib_search_path logrotate-3.7.4-11.fc7 ---------------------- * Tue Jan 23 2007 Peter Vrabec 3.7.4-11 - logrotate won't stop if there are some errors in configuration or glob failures (#166510, #182062) mailman-3:2.1.9-4 ----------------- * Tue Jan 23 2007 Florian La Roche - add fix from rhbz#219054: usage output mentions "status" option mgetty-1.1.33-10.fc7 -------------------- * Tue Jan 23 2007 Maros Barabas - 1.1.33-10 - fixed install-info scriptlets (post,preun) - Resolves #223710 nautilus-2.17.90-2.fc7 ---------------------- * Tue Jan 23 2007 Alexander Larsson - 2.17.90-2 - Fix gnome bug #362302 in selinux patch nautilus-sendto-0.8-4.fc7 ------------------------- * Tue Jan 23 2007 Alexander Larsson - 0.8-4 - Rebuild against new gaim (#223765) net-snmp-1:5.4-8.fc7 -------------------- * Tue Jan 23 2007 Radek Vok??l - 5.4-8 - fix occasional segfaults when snmpd starts netatalk-4:2.0.3-9.fc7 ---------------------- * Tue Jan 23 2007 Jindrich Novy - 4:2.0.3-9 - rebuild against new db4 * Mon Dec 04 2006 Maros Barabas - 4:2.0.3-8 - BuildRequires changed from cracklib to cracklib-devel ntp-4.2.4-3.fc7 --------------- * Tue Jan 23 2007 Miroslav Lichvar 4.2.4-3 - disable autoopts option preset mechanisms for ntpd - document -I option of ntpd - generate makewhatis friendly man pages nut-2.0.5-2 ----------- * Tue Jan 23 2007 Karsten Hopp 2.0.5-2 - rename fatal to fatal_with_errno in ipv6 patch - fix filelist * Tue Jan 23 2007 Karsten Hopp 2.0.5-1 - update to 2.0.5 perl-4:5.8.8-11.fc7 ------------------- * Tue Jan 23 2007 Jindrich Novy - 4:5.8.8-11 - rebuild against new db4 - use dist tag * Sat Sep 30 2006 Robin Norwood - 4:5.8.8-10 - bugzilla: 208731 - remove directory support for old perl versions * Fri Sep 15 2006 Robin Norwood - 4:5.8.8-9 - fix bug 204679: add Unicode 5.0.0 support postfix-2:2.3.6-1 ----------------- * Tue Jan 23 2007 Thomas Woerner 2:2.3.6-1 - new version 2.3.6 - limiting SASL mechanisms to plain login for sasl with saslauthd (#175259) - dropped usage of ed in the install stage prctl-1.5-1 ----------- * Tue Jan 23 2007 Karsten Hopp 1.5-1 - update to 1.5 psacct-6.3.2-43.fc7 ------------------- * Tue Jan 23 2007 Ivana Varekova - 6.3.2-43 - Resolves: 223728 psacct logrotate file looks for non existant directory redhat-menus-7.8.9-4.fc7 ------------------------ * Tue Jan 23 2007 Matthias Clasen - 7.8.9-4 - Once more with better categories * Tue Jan 23 2007 Matthias Clasen - 7.8.9-3 - Update preferences.menu for the control center shell rhpxl-0.42-1.fc7 ---------------- * Tue Jan 23 2007 Jeremy Katz - 0.42-1 - Don't pass a potentially bogus fontpath to the X server. It starts fine without it and we don't have it on installs from live cd * Wed Nov 29 2006 Chris Lumens 0.41-1 - Trust kudzu to give us the right video driver instead of using readDrivers to trim the list of what's available (#211977). * Mon Nov 06 2006 Adam Jackson 0.40-1 - Allow for very large resolutions. (#212695) sendmail-8.13.8-4 ----------------- * Tue Jan 23 2007 Florian La Roche - #205803 add sparc/sparc64 to -fPIE list - change sendmail.cf reference into sendmail-cf package name slib-3a4-1.fc7 -------------- * Tue Jan 23 2007 Miroslav Lichvar 3a4-1 - update to 3a4 - make scriptlets safer (#223717) system-config-soundcard-2.0.6-2.fc7 ----------------------------------- * Tue Jan 23 2007 Martin Stransky 2.0.6-2 - fixed #223915 - system-config-soundcard does not start udev-104-1 ---------- * Tue Jan 23 2007 Harald Hoyer - 104-1 - version 104 - merged changes from RHEL units-1.86-2.fc7 ---------------- * Tue Jan 23 2007 Florian La Roche - 1.86-2 - rhbz#220533 vim-2:7.0.188-3 --------------- * Tue Jan 23 2007 Karsten Hopp 7.0.188-3 - patchlevel 188 xen-3.0.4-3.fc7 --------------- * Tue Jan 23 2007 Daniel Berrange - 3.0.4-3.fc7 - Added PVFB back compat for FC5/6 guests * Mon Jan 22 2007 Daniel P. Berrange - 3.0.4-2.fc7 - Ensure the arch-x86 header files are included in xen-devel package - Bring back patch to move /var/xen/dump to /var/lib/xen/dump - Make /var/log/xen mode 0700 * Thu Jan 11 2007 Daniel P. Berrange - 3.0.4-1 - Upgrade to official xen-3.0.4_1 release tarball xorg-x11-resutils-7.1-3.fc7 --------------------------- * Tue Jan 23 2007 Adam Jackson 7.1-3 - appres 1.0.1 xorg-x11-server-1.2.0-1.fc7 --------------------------- * Tue Jan 23 2007 Adam Jackson 1.2.0-1 - Xorg server 1.2.0. Broken deps for ppc64 ---------------------------------------------------------- perl-suidperl - 4:5.8.8-11.fc7.ppc64 requires perl = 4:5.8.8-11 Broken deps for i386 ---------------------------------------------------------- perl-suidperl - 4:5.8.8-11.fc7.i386 requires perl = 4:5.8.8-11 Broken deps for s390 ---------------------------------------------------------- perl-suidperl - 4:5.8.8-11.fc7.s390 requires perl = 4:5.8.8-11 systemtap - 0.5.10-1.fc7.s390 requires kernel >= 0:2.6.9-11 systemtap-runtime - 0.5.10-1.fc7.s390 requires kernel >= 0:2.6.9-11 Broken deps for x86_64 ---------------------------------------------------------- perl-suidperl - 4:5.8.8-11.fc7.x86_64 requires perl = 4:5.8.8-11 Broken deps for ppc ---------------------------------------------------------- perl-suidperl - 4:5.8.8-11.fc7.ppc requires perl = 4:5.8.8-11 Broken deps for ia64 ---------------------------------------------------------- perl-suidperl - 4:5.8.8-11.fc7.ia64 requires perl = 4:5.8.8-11 Broken deps for s390x ---------------------------------------------------------- perl-suidperl - 4:5.8.8-11.fc7.s390x requires perl = 4:5.8.8-11 From seg at haxxed.com Wed Jan 24 12:37:44 2007 From: seg at haxxed.com (Callum Lerwick) Date: Wed, 24 Jan 2007 06:37:44 -0600 Subject: Dump (backup utility) in FC-7 will be linked dynamically In-Reply-To: References: <45AF871E.6060507@redhat.com> Message-ID: <1169642264.27761.46.camel@localhost.localdomain> On Thu, 2007-01-18 at 10:59 -0600, Jason L Tibbitts III wrote: > >>>>> "AT" == Adam Tkac writes: > > AT> I'm going to ship dump backup utility in FC-7 only in > AT> dynamically linked version (now dump is statically linked). > > I suppose the primary reasons for shipping a static dump (and, perhaps > more importantly, restore) is for emergency situations. But these > days I can't imagine many emergency situations that aren't better > solved by booting the rescue media instead of booting single-user. > dump and restore are on the rescue media, aren't they? (Personally I > wish the initrd could be extended to act as a rescue medium, but I > imagine that many people would object to that.) I've actually been considering the possibility of "installing" the rescue disk onto a small partition at the end of the disk. Much like some VARs are apparently doing with their windows recovery disks... But... hell, why not just put it in /boot? That would make it easier to keep up to date via an RPM. Hmmm. -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: signature.asc Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 189 bytes Desc: This is a digitally signed message part URL: From chris at idlelion.net Wed Jan 24 13:05:22 2007 From: chris at idlelion.net (Chris Schumann) Date: Wed, 24 Jan 2007 07:05:22 -0600 Subject: Sound on ThinkPad 600X In-Reply-To: <20070124124119.2BB8E730DD@hormel.redhat.com> References: <20070124124119.2BB8E730DD@hormel.redhat.com> Message-ID: <000c01c73fb8$4ebc63d0$6417a8c0@piv17> > Date: Wed, 24 Jan 2007 14:17:52 +0300 > From: Dmitry Butskoy > Chris Schumann wrote: > >When I try "alsactl power", I get "alsactl: Unknown command > 'power'..." so I > >don't think that will work for me. > =-O ... What version of "alsa-utils" you use? > (alsa-utils-1.0.11 have this command, nevertheless it is not > described > in the man page). # alsactl -v alsactl version 1.0.12 # rpm -qa alsa-utils alsa-utils-1.0.12-3.fc6 Chris From buc at odusz.so-cdu.ru Wed Jan 24 13:24:25 2007 From: buc at odusz.so-cdu.ru (Dmitry Butskoy) Date: Wed, 24 Jan 2007 16:24:25 +0300 Subject: Sound on ThinkPad 600X In-Reply-To: <000c01c73fb8$4ebc63d0$6417a8c0@piv17> References: <20070124124119.2BB8E730DD@hormel.redhat.com> <000c01c73fb8$4ebc63d0$6417a8c0@piv17> Message-ID: <45B75E09.5030001@odu.neva.ru> Chris Schumann wrote: >>>When I try "alsactl power", I get "alsactl: Unknown command >>> >>> >>'power'..." so I >> >> >>>don't think that will work for me. >>> >>> ... ># rpm -qa alsa-utils >alsa-utils-1.0.12-3.fc6 > > Oh, this command was removed since 1.0.12 ... Maybe play directly with something like /sys/class/sound/*/device/power/state ?... ~buc From fedora at leemhuis.info Wed Jan 24 13:24:27 2007 From: fedora at leemhuis.info (Thorsten Leemhuis) Date: Wed, 24 Jan 2007 14:24:27 +0100 Subject: dkms for fc7? In-Reply-To: <80d7e4090701221042u54a9c724i14efd26a3075e4e@mail.gmail.com> References: <20070119153556.7bf08b28@python3.es.egwn.lan> <45B4B356.3000108@leemhuis.info> <80d7e4090701221042u54a9c724i14efd26a3075e4e@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <45B75E0B.50502@leemhuis.info> Stephen John Smoogen schrieb: > On 1/22/07, Thorsten Leemhuis wrote: >> My 2 cent: Normal users should get modules pre-compiled as rpm package >> (read: "we are not gentoo"). For enthusiasts something like dkms might >> be a good idea. But I think most of us don't want to maintain two >> codepaths for compiling kernel-modules, so we need to get both concepts >> under one hood. E.g.: either use dkms in the buildsys, too, or find a >> way to recompile the kmod srpm for new kernels automatically. > dkms can create packages with precompiled kernel modules [...] Does that work as non-root user from a rpm spec file? That would be needed to make use of dkms in plague/mock. Cu thl From fedora at leemhuis.info Wed Jan 24 13:34:04 2007 From: fedora at leemhuis.info (Thorsten Leemhuis) Date: Wed, 24 Jan 2007 14:34:04 +0100 Subject: dkms for fc7? In-Reply-To: <45B4EDD0.90007@poolshark.org> References: <20070119153556.7bf08b28@python3.es.egwn.lan> <45B0D8C9.8000409@poolshark.org> <39566.192.54.193.51.1169219604.squirrel@rousalka.dyndns.org> <1169481825.27691.17.camel@aglarond.local> <20070122171034.27062d4c@python3.es.egwn.lan> <1169483634.27691.23.camel@aglarond.local> <45B4EDD0.90007@poolshark.org> Message-ID: <45B7604C.6020308@leemhuis.info> Denis Leroy schrieb: > Jeremy Katz wrote: > >> But seriously, I am pretty vehemently opposed to differing databases for >> tracking installed software. If the benefits of recompiling modules >> automagically is big enough, then we should make sure that the _output_ >> of the recompilation is an rpm that we can install and track just like >> anything else. There's no reason that dkms couldn't do this. >> >> At the same time, I don't think that's the default behavior that we want >> for users who want extra kernel modules. Instead, they should be able >> to download, install and have them work just like the rest of the >> software that we ship. +1 to jeremy here > dkms is solving a problem that people have *now*; frequent 'yum update' > breakage (unless you use --skip-broken). I fail to follow you here, sorry. With the current kmod standard new kernels get installed even if the kmods are not available, so "--skip-broken" should not be needed. The kmods will get installed by yum when avilable. > Well, with a integrated Core+Extras build system, we could implement our > own automated kernel module rebuild system, a repo-level dkms if you > will. That was always the plan for the current kmod standard already. But nobody ever found time to drive it forward. Any volunteers? > [...] So that yum won't > let you update your kernel if that would mean losing wireless access, > for example. A yum plugin can afaics already handle that, but I never tried it. > We'll have to do this to resolve the firefox/galeon > breakages automatically also... That should hopefully become easier in the merged world with the new updates system. CU thl From mcepl at redhat.com Wed Jan 24 13:46:52 2007 From: mcepl at redhat.com (Matej Cepl) Date: Wed, 24 Jan 2007 13:46:52 +0000 (UTC) Subject: Long term PIM solution References: Message-ID: Leo scripst: > Thunderbird combined with extensions? and Sunbird could be a solution. > > Footnotes: > ? https://addons.mozilla.org/extensions.php?app=thunderbird It could be, and it is currently it is probably more stable partial solution, but it is still doesn't cover in stable way all the functionality promised by Evolution and required for full-size solution. Plus it is not that well integrated into Gnome enviornment (collaboration with NetworkManager anyone?). Matej -- http://www.ceplovi.cz/matej/blog/, Jabber: ceplmajabber.cz GPG Finger: 89EF 4BC6 288A BF43 1BAB 25C3 E09F EF25 D964 84AC I would like to die sleeping, like my father rather than screaming and helpless, like his passengers. From michel.salim at gmail.com Wed Jan 24 14:09:29 2007 From: michel.salim at gmail.com (Michel Salim) Date: Wed, 24 Jan 2007 09:09:29 -0500 Subject: FC7-TARGET tracker and appropriate usage In-Reply-To: References: <883cfe6d0701232154w6112eb63p97fe49bb8c7dd2af@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <883cfe6d0701240609r4da1c3c0o6166ac0da96805a2@mail.gmail.com> 2007/1/24, Frank Schmitt : > There's still a zsh in rawhide which is broken for all non-english > users using UTF-8 locales. For me this is definitely a blocker bug, > fixing it would just require an update to latest upstream release. > > https://bugzilla.redhat.com/bugzilla//show_bug.cgi?id=183557 > So the new tracker probably should be parallel to the target and blocker ones. I'll set it up now. -- Michel Salim http://hircus.wordpress.com/ My theology, briefly, is that the universe was dictated but not signed. -- Christopher Morley From michel.salim at gmail.com Wed Jan 24 14:31:06 2007 From: michel.salim at gmail.com (Michel Salim) Date: Wed, 24 Jan 2007 09:31:06 -0500 Subject: FC7-TARGET tracker and appropriate usage In-Reply-To: <883cfe6d0701240609r4da1c3c0o6166ac0da96805a2@mail.gmail.com> References: <883cfe6d0701232154w6112eb63p97fe49bb8c7dd2af@mail.gmail.com> <883cfe6d0701240609r4da1c3c0o6166ac0da96805a2@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <883cfe6d0701240631g20c7ae51ocbbcb3024969d945@mail.gmail.com> 2007/1/24, Michel Salim : > 2007/1/24, Frank Schmitt : > > There's still a zsh in rawhide which is broken for all non-english > > users using UTF-8 locales. For me this is definitely a blocker bug, > > fixing it would just require an update to latest upstream release. > > > > https://bugzilla.redhat.com/bugzilla//show_bug.cgi?id=183557 > > > So the new tracker probably should be parallel to the target and > blocker ones. I'll set it up now. > FC7UpdateRequests tracker created (bz# 224162). Package update requests that could reasonably fixed in the Fedora 7 timeframe should block on this. Incidentally, how long does it take until Bugzilla recognizes newly-entered aliases? I could enter FC7Blocker by name, but not FE7Target or FC7UpdateRequests. Regards, -- Michel Salim http://hircus.wordpress.com/ My theology, briefly, is that the universe was dictated but not signed. -- Christopher Morley From bernie at develer.com Wed Jan 24 14:59:11 2007 From: bernie at develer.com (Bernardo Innocenti) Date: Wed, 24 Jan 2007 15:59:11 +0100 Subject: KDE4 being packaged In-Reply-To: <13dbfe4f0611271316p7b11f9a0k1abcd9c8df6688ab@mail.gmail.com> References: <13dbfe4f0611271316p7b11f9a0k1abcd9c8df6688ab@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <45B7743F.3060205@develer.com> Chitlesh GOORAH wrote: > Well, I just started packaging kde4 based on kevinkoefler's work. > [...] Did you make any progress on this front? Or is anybody else packaging KDE4 for Fedora? -- // Bernardo Innocenti - Develer S.r.l., R&D dept. \X/ http://www.develer.com/ From mattdm at mattdm.org Wed Jan 24 16:40:55 2007 From: mattdm at mattdm.org (Matthew Miller) Date: Wed, 24 Jan 2007 11:40:55 -0500 Subject: Rawhide: kernel panic 2.6.19-1.2912.fc7 (but not in VMware) In-Reply-To: <1169502037.27134.1.camel@rousalka.dyndns.org> References: <20070122205814.GA6063@jadzia.bu.edu> <1169502037.27134.1.camel@rousalka.dyndns.org> Message-ID: <20070124164055.GA17367@jadzia.bu.edu> On Mon, Jan 22, 2007 at 10:40:37PM +0100, Nicolas Mailhot wrote: > > I've been coasting along with Rawhide for quite some time, but now, starting > > with the 2.6.19 kernels, I have a similar problem. I've got boot on > > /dev/sda1 and /dev/sda2 is a phyiscal volume with everything else in lvm > > (logical volumes in volume group "vg0"). > No md raid ? mkinitrd is broken for md raid right now (may be for other > things, but lvm works here once the md stuff is fixed) Nope, no md on this box, so that's not it. -- Matthew Miller mattdm at mattdm.org Boston University Linux ------> From mattdm at mattdm.org Wed Jan 24 16:41:18 2007 From: mattdm at mattdm.org (Matthew Miller) Date: Wed, 24 Jan 2007 11:41:18 -0500 Subject: Rawhide: kernel panic 2.6.19-1.2912.fc7 (but not in VMware) In-Reply-To: <45B6A4E8.4020303@kobold.org> References: <20070122205814.GA6063@jadzia.bu.edu> <45B6A4E8.4020303@kobold.org> Message-ID: <20070124164118.GB17367@jadzia.bu.edu> On Tue, Jan 23, 2007 at 04:14:32PM -0800, Michael Thomas wrote: > >all of the 2.6.19s I've tried, including 2.6.19-1.2912.fc7, say that they > >can't find any logical volume groups and then promptly panic. Right before > I've seen this problem with 2.6.19 kernels, too, and it usually goes > away if I reboot a second time. That might work for you, too, until a > proper fix is available. Hmmm. What about the third time, then? -- Matthew Miller mattdm at mattdm.org Boston University Linux ------> From rdieter at math.unl.edu Wed Jan 24 17:15:38 2007 From: rdieter at math.unl.edu (Rex Dieter) Date: Wed, 24 Jan 2007 11:15:38 -0600 Subject: KDE4 being packaged In-Reply-To: <45B7743F.3060205@develer.com> References: <13dbfe4f0611271316p7b11f9a0k1abcd9c8df6688ab@mail.gmail.com> <45B7743F.3060205@develer.com> Message-ID: <45B7943A.5040604@math.unl.edu> Bernardo Innocenti wrote: > Chitlesh GOORAH wrote: >>Well, I just started packaging kde4 based on kevinkoefler's work. > Did you make any progress on this front? Or is anybody else packaging > KDE4 for Fedora? We had made a bit of head-way, but the work as-is included some quasi-ugly hacks to enable parallel installation with kde(3). In the meantime, 1. work is ongoing (upstream) on the parallel-install problem 2. F7 KDE-spin plans, FUDConBoston2007 preparations came up, which has me leaning toward letting these items resolve and sort themselves out before putting in more time/effort into kde4 packaging efforts. -- Rex From orion at cora.nwra.com Wed Jan 24 17:26:53 2007 From: orion at cora.nwra.com (Orion Poplawski) Date: Wed, 24 Jan 2007 10:26:53 -0700 Subject: installed rescue disk In-Reply-To: <1169642264.27761.46.camel@localhost.localdomain> References: <45AF871E.6060507@redhat.com> <1169642264.27761.46.camel@localhost.localdomain> Message-ID: Callum Lerwick wrote: > But... hell, why not just put it in /boot? That would make it easier to > keep up to date via an RPM. Hmmm. Nice! -- Orion Poplawski Technical Manager 303-415-9701 x222 NWRA/CoRA Division FAX: 303-415-9702 3380 Mitchell Lane orion at cora.nwra.com Boulder, CO 80301 http://www.cora.nwra.com From rjohnson.fedora-devel-list at rjohnson.com Thu Jan 25 04:32:49 2007 From: rjohnson.fedora-devel-list at rjohnson.com (Ron Johnson) Date: Wed, 24 Jan 2007 20:32:49 -0800 Subject: tmp cleanup Message-ID: <45B832F1.4020600@rjohnson.com> Hello, I've not contributed directly to Fedora before, but have a small change I'd like to make. I think this is the place to find out more about doing that. I'd like a hook in rc.sysinit to do local /tmp cleanup on boot. I already do things like this all the time on my system, but: 1. Every time I update, if the original file changed, and is updated, the update is rpmsave (or similar), and I then need to compare versions every time. 2. Every time I reinstall (usually once a year) I have to go back an re-edit a core system file (and then see (1) above sometime later). 3. I think others have messy /tmp directories too. The change to rc.sysinit is these three lines (although it would have to be different if merged into the distribution, this is just what's in mine now): if [ -x /usr/local/bin/tmpcleanup ]; then /usr/local/bin/tmpcleanup fi * The file 'tmpcleanup' merely creates a subdirectory in /tmp, based on the date/time, and moves everything currently in tmp into the new dir. * Exceptions are that it doesn't move files that appear to be prior dirs cleaned up already with tmpcleanup. * Again, nothing gets deleted, only moved, but it's easy to tell what files are almost certainly not needed anymore. * The script (only?) runs at system boot. At least it helps me keep /tmp clean, or at least less cluttered. Now, having said all that, I'd be happy to submit the tmpcleanup script (perl), I'd be happy to submit the changes to rc.sysinit, but how should I go about doing that? I've not used CVS before, I don't know how to build RPM's. I just run my system, and help with others, and thought I'd see about submitting a small change that helps me out. My suspicion is that the best thing is to submit a change so that a directory is created, called "rc.sysinit.d" in /etc/rc.d, and in the rc.sysinit dir, create subdirectories that are called (much like rc1.d, etc) at certain points. For instance, have a hook that is called when local filesystems are mounted. But I might be getting ahead of myself with that. My aim is to have one less thing to customize when I re-do a system. Comments? -Ron -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From peter at thecodergeek.com Thu Jan 25 04:41:03 2007 From: peter at thecodergeek.com (Peter Gordon) Date: Wed, 24 Jan 2007 20:41:03 -0800 Subject: tmp cleanup In-Reply-To: <45B832F1.4020600@rjohnson.com> References: <45B832F1.4020600@rjohnson.com> Message-ID: <1169700063.3534.5.camel@localhost> tmpwatch (in Extras) might suit your needs. :) $ rpm -qi tmpwatch [..] Summary: A utility for removing files based on when they were last accessed. Description: The tmpwatch utility recursively searches through specified directories and removes files which have not been accessed in a specified period of time. Tmpwatch is normally used to clean up directories which are used for temporarily holding files (for example, /tmp). Tmpwatch ignores symlinks, won't switch filesystems and only removes empty directories and regular files. -- Peter Gordon (codergeek42) / FSF Associate Member #5015 GnuPG Public Key ID: 0xFFC19479 / Fingerprint: DD68 A414 56BD 6368 D957 9666 4268 CB7A FFC1 9479 Blog: http://thecodergeek.com/blog/ About: http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/PeterGordon -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: signature.asc Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 189 bytes Desc: This is a digitally signed message part URL: From rjohnson.fedora-devel-list at rjohnson.com Thu Jan 25 04:49:31 2007 From: rjohnson.fedora-devel-list at rjohnson.com (Ron Johnson) Date: Wed, 24 Jan 2007 20:49:31 -0800 Subject: tmp cleanup In-Reply-To: <1169700063.3534.5.camel@localhost> References: <45B832F1.4020600@rjohnson.com> <1169700063.3534.5.camel@localhost> Message-ID: <45B836DB.3050501@rjohnson.com> Peter Gordon wrote: > tmpwatch (in Extras) might suit your needs. :) > Nope. It used to be on by default (?) at one time (FC1? RHL9?), but either way, I don't want files deleted. I've had tmpwatch dump things I wanted to keep, and keep things that I thought should have been whacked a long time ago. The script I currently use (attached) never deletes anything. It leaves that to the user/admin. All it does is clean up /tmp by moving things into a subdirectory of /tmp (i.e. "tmp-cleanup-2007-01-19 at 21.33.26"). While the script I have doesn't delete anything, it does, however, move *everything* (except prior directories made by itself). -Ron -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: -------------- next part -------------- An embedded and charset-unspecified text was scrubbed... Name: tmpcleanup URL: From miles.lane at gmail.com Thu Jan 25 10:05:25 2007 From: miles.lane at gmail.com (Miles Lane) Date: Thu, 25 Jan 2007 02:05:25 -0800 Subject: Any plans to add support for new features of laptops targeting Vista? Message-ID: Hello, This article introduces a bunch of new laptop technologies that Microsoft is supporting in Vista. According to the article, these technologies will result in shortened boot times, less power consumption in hard drives, the ability to have commonly used files stay resident in non-volatile memory for rapid program launches, etc. These technologies all have a hardware component in addition to the software side. My hope is that we can figure out how to have Linux benefit from these hardware changes. Power management on laptops remains an area where Linux is challenged, though it is improving. Is there any hardware specs are out there for these new chunks of hardware? Here's an article discussing the new gizmos: http://www.reghardware.co.uk/2007/01/23/windows_vista_laptops/page3.html Miles -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From kevin.verma at gmail.com Thu Jan 25 10:48:02 2007 From: kevin.verma at gmail.com (Anuj Verma (Kevin)) Date: Thu, 25 Jan 2007 10:48:02 +0000 (UTC) Subject: whereis the static fedora-release-notes file ? Message-ID: Hello list, Where did the static text file go always easy for reference. Regards, Kevin --snip--- $ tree /usr/share/doc/fedora-release-notes-6/ /usr/share/doc/fedora-release-notes-6/ `-- about |-- C | `-- about-fedora.xml |-- el | `-- about-fedora.xml |-- es | `-- about-fedora.xml |-- it | `-- about-fedora.xml |-- pl | `-- about-fedora.xml |-- pt | `-- about-fedora.xml |-- pt_BR | `-- about-fedora.xml |-- ru | `-- about-fedora.xml |-- sv | `-- about-fedora.xml `-- zh_CN `-- about-fedora.xml 11 directories, 10 files From buildsys at redhat.com Thu Jan 25 11:10:07 2007 From: buildsys at redhat.com (buildsys at redhat.com) Date: Thu, 25 Jan 2007 06:10:07 -0500 Subject: rawhide report: 20070125 changes Message-ID: <200701251110.l0PBA7BR023156@hs20-bc2-6.build.redhat.com> New package kernel-xen-2.6 The Linux kernel (the core of the Linux operating system) Updated Packages: anaconda-11.2.0.17-1 -------------------- * Wed Jan 24 2007 Jeremy Katz - 11.2.0.17-1 - Disable extra repo for now * Wed Jan 24 2007 Jeremy Katz - 11.2.0.16-1 - Fix rescue mode - Fix theming dbus-python-0.80.1-1.fc7 ------------------------ * Wed Jan 24 2007 John (J5) Palmieri - 0.80.1-1 - upgrade to 0.80.1 - remove dependency on Pyrex and libxml2 - some API breakage, please see http://dbus.freedesktop.org/doc/dbus-python/NEWS.html for notes on changes emacs-22.0.93-3.fc7 ------------------- * Wed Jan 24 2007 Chip Coldwell - 22.0.93-3 - po-mode.el was being left out * Tue Jan 23 2007 Chip Coldwell - 22.0.93-1 - new pretest version - removed setarch since new dumper copes with execshield - clean up site initialization files (varions #176171) * Tue Jan 02 2007 Chip Coldwell - 22.0.92-1 - new pretest version - removed almost all emacs 21 patches from emacs 22 - clean up spec file, - many new BuildRequires (David Woodhouse #221250) fedora-release-6.90-1 --------------------- * Wed Jan 24 2007 Jeremy Katz - 6.90-1 - Bump to 6.90. Keep working with older release notes firstboot-1.4.29-1.fc7 ---------------------- * Wed Jan 24 2007 Chris Lumens 1.4.29-1 - Fix disabling the soundcard panel if no soundcard are available (#221177). - Remove the display module and the dependency on system-config-display. gnome-spell-1.0.7-4.fc7 ----------------------- * Wed Jan 24 2007 Matthew Barnes - 1.0.7-4.fc7 - Clean up spec file, remove unused patches. - Revise multilib patch so that we no longer have to run the autotools before building (RH bug #224160). gstreamer-plugins-good-0.10.5-2.fc7 ----------------------------------- * Wed Jan 24 2007 Adam Jackson - 0.10.5-2 - Re-add the gdkpixbuf loader. (#222837) libgnomekbd-2.17.2-2.fc7 ------------------------ * Wed Jan 24 2007 Matthias Clasen - 2.17.2-2 - Port former control-center patches to improve keyboard drawing pam-0.99.7.1-1.fc7 ------------------ * Wed Jan 24 2007 Tomas Mraz 0.99.7.1-1 - upgrade to new upstream version resolving CVE-2007-0003 - pam_namespace: unmount poly dir for override users * Mon Jan 22 2007 Tomas Mraz 0.99.7.0-2 - add back min salt length requirement which was erroneously removed upstream (CVE-2007-0003) * Fri Jan 19 2007 Tomas Mraz 0.99.7.0-1 - upgrade to new upstream version - drop pam_stack module as it is obsolete - some changes to silence rpmlint perl-4:5.8.8-12.fc7 ------------------- * Wed Jan 24 2007 Jindrich Novy - 4:5.8.8-12 - put dist tag directly to perlrel to fix dependency to suidperl * Tue Jan 23 2007 Jindrich Novy - 4:5.8.8-11 - rebuild against new db4 - use dist tag * Sat Sep 30 2006 Robin Norwood - 4:5.8.8-10 - bugzilla: 208731 - remove directory support for old perl versions pm-utils-0.19.1-4.fc7 --------------------- * Wed Jan 24 2007 Phil Knirsch - 0.19.1-4 - Start/stop correct services in 10NetworkManager hook (#215253) - Fixed check for /sys/power/disk and /sys/power/state (#214407) - Added proper error messages in case /sys/power/disk or /sys/power/state are missing (#215386) - Removed service calls and module load/unload for bluetooth hook (#213387) - Added hook file to restore the sysfont after resume (#215391) - Added the possibility to disable hibernate and suspend completely via the config file (#216459) - Symlinked the config file to /etc/sysconfig/power-management (#216459) - Fixed pm-powersave permission check bug (#222819) - Small specfile cleanups * Sun Oct 01 2006 Peter Jones - 0.19.1-3 - Disable bluetooth suspend/reusme hook by default; the kernel modules seem to support this correctly these days. * Thu Sep 28 2006 Peter Jones - 0.19.1-2 - Ignore emacs backup files in config directories (#185979) policycoreutils-1.34.1-3.fc7 ---------------------------- * Wed Jan 24 2007 Dan Walsh 1.34.1-3 - More chcat fixes * Wed Jan 24 2007 Dan Walsh 1.34.1-2 - Change chcat to exec semodule so file context is maintained * Wed Jan 24 2007 Dan Walsh 1.34.1-1 - Fix system-config-selinux ports view - Update to upstream * Fixed newrole non-pam build. * Updated version for stable branch. selinux-policy-2.5.1-5.fc7 -------------------------- * Mon Jan 22 2007 Dan Walsh 2.5.1-5 - Continue fixing, additional user domains xorg-x11-drv-vesa-1.3.0-2.fc7 ----------------------------- * Wed Jan 24 2007 Adam Jackson 1.3.0-2 - vesa-1.2.1-validmode.patch: Strictly limit runtime modes to the intersection of the BIOS and DDC lists, if a DDC list exists; fixes cases where we'd choose 1600x1200 on 1680x1050 panel. Conversely, be more forgiving when validating the resulting set against the sync ranges; fixes 640x480 syndrome when the monitor has broken DDC. Don't be deceived though, vesa still sucks. Broken deps for s390 ---------------------------------------------------------- systemtap - 0.5.10-1.fc7.s390 requires kernel >= 0:2.6.9-11 systemtap-runtime - 0.5.10-1.fc7.s390 requires kernel >= 0:2.6.9-11 From sundaram at fedoraproject.org Thu Jan 25 11:17:47 2007 From: sundaram at fedoraproject.org (Rahul Sundaram) Date: Thu, 25 Jan 2007 16:47:47 +0530 Subject: whereis the static fedora-release-notes file ? In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <45B891DB.1080706@fedoraproject.org> Anuj Verma (Kevin) wrote: > Hello list, > > Where did the static text file go always easy for reference. > > Regards, > Kevin > file:///usr/share/doc/HTML/index-en_US.html # rpm -ql fedora-release-notes Rahul From fedora at leemhuis.info Thu Jan 25 12:39:28 2007 From: fedora at leemhuis.info (Thorsten Leemhuis) Date: Thu, 25 Jan 2007 13:39:28 +0100 Subject: kernel-xen-2.6? (was: Re: rawhide report: 20070125 changes) In-Reply-To: <200701251110.l0PBA7BR023156@hs20-bc2-6.build.redhat.com> References: <200701251110.l0PBA7BR023156@hs20-bc2-6.build.redhat.com> Message-ID: <45B8A500.8060503@leemhuis.info> buildsys at redhat.com schrieb: > New package kernel-xen-2.6 > The Linux kernel (the core of the Linux operating system) No offense (?), just some questions that came up when I saw this: - No review? I can't see it on https://bugzilla.redhat.com/bugzilla/showdependencytree.cgi?id=FC-ACCEPT I'm probably just to dumb to find it... - no kernel-xen-2.6 (yet?) on http://cvs.fedora.redhat.com/viewcvs/devel/?root=core - until now we had the (unwritten?) rule that we have only one kernel srpm in Fedora and that other kernels packages are not allowed (especially not in Extras -- but Extras and Core are no more). When did that change? Who decided that -- I'd say such a important change should get ACKed by FESCo, but seems I have missed that... Anyway: Does that mean that we could have a -rt, -vserver, -openvz, -vanilla, -foo or -bar kernels in Fedora now, too (?)? - this to some degree breaks the kmod packaging (that was designed under the assumption(?) we have only one kernel-package with a lot of subpackages that all have the same version-release). Okay, it's not that bad as you can build the kmod srpm once for the real kernels and then for the xen-kernels, but that requires to set up the buildroot up twice for each arch -- that takes a lot of time :-/ . CU thl (?) -- actually I think it's a good idea to have a separate package for xen! (?) -- I don't think we want that in our main repo (?) -- note: yes, I know, the kmod standard is in large parts my work -- but it got influenced by a lot of people. I for example never was really comfortable with this assumption From bela.pesics at gmail.com Thu Jan 25 12:43:23 2007 From: bela.pesics at gmail.com (Bela Pesics) Date: Thu, 25 Jan 2007 13:43:23 +0100 Subject: NewInit and red plans ( aka "is it true that redhat linux is not unix" ) Message-ID: Just out of curiosity, isn't redhat interested in this feature? It's alright if not, before someone briefs me on the joyful relationship of red and the community. http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Releases/FeatureNewInit?highlight=%28CategoryFedora7Features%29 Btw. does redhat have plans, long term strategy or case studies about the detrimental effect of traditional unix leftovers? At the current state rhel5 and the ongoing fc branch seemingly enjoys this tradition, and there's no sign of real change. Is this indeed the future? Bela From kevin.verma at gmail.com Thu Jan 25 13:02:33 2007 From: kevin.verma at gmail.com (Anuj Verma (Kevin)) Date: Thu, 25 Jan 2007 13:02:33 +0000 (UTC) Subject: whereis the static fedora-release-notes file ? References: <45B891DB.1080706@fedoraproject.org> Message-ID: On Thu, 25 Jan 2007 16:47:47 +0530, Rahul Sundaram wrote: > file:///usr/share/doc/HTML/index-en_US.html # rpm -ql fedora-release-notes > > Rahul True, but why are we not keeping a text file there as well ? Just curious to know. Kevin From ndbecker2 at gmail.com Thu Jan 25 13:42:24 2007 From: ndbecker2 at gmail.com (Neal Becker) Date: Thu, 25 Jan 2007 08:42:24 -0500 Subject: New VCS Choice; SCM SIG References: <1169160615.14225.127.camel@localhost.localdomain> Message-ID: How can I update the wiki (currently it's immutable)? I'd like to note progress on mercurial (hg): 1) Symlinks now working in current mainline 2) Not certain, but I think 'forest extension' addresses the issue that only complete repos can be checked out. From linville at redhat.com Thu Jan 25 13:48:44 2007 From: linville at redhat.com (John W. Linville) Date: Thu, 25 Jan 2007 08:48:44 -0500 Subject: Any plans to add support for new features of laptops targeting Vista? In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <20070125134843.GA22278@redhat.com> On Thu, Jan 25, 2007 at 02:05:25AM -0800, Miles Lane wrote: > This article introduces a bunch of new laptop technologies that > Microsoft is supporting in Vista. According to the article, > Is there any hardware specs are out there for these > new chunks of hardware? > > Here's an article discussing the new gizmos: > http://www.reghardware.co.uk/2007/01/23/windows_vista_laptops/page3.html Sounds kinda cool. ReadyBoost sounds to me like a wizard for using memory cards as swap space. ReadyDrive sounds like it could be self-contained in new hard drives, but I suppose it might need some OS support or enablement. SuperFetch sounds like an actual OS component -- something to make their VM more purposely aware of the ReadyBoost and ReadyDrive features. SideShow sounds cool, but it really does just look to be a built-in PDA. It would be good get some specs to see if we could get Opie or somesuch ready for it, and Fedora ready to sync with it "out of the box". Anyone have more technical information? I wonder how much the vendors are allowed to share with us? John -- John W. Linville linville at redhat.com From sundaram at fedoraproject.org Thu Jan 25 13:54:37 2007 From: sundaram at fedoraproject.org (Rahul Sundaram) Date: Thu, 25 Jan 2007 19:24:37 +0530 Subject: NewInit and red plans ( aka "is it true that redhat linux is not unix" ) In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <45B8B69D.7020409@fedoraproject.org> Bela Pesics wrote: > Just out of curiosity, isn't redhat interested in this feature? It's > alright if not, before someone briefs me on the joyful relationship of > red and the community. > > http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Releases/FeatureNewInit?highlight=%28CategoryFedora7Features%29 > > > Btw. does redhat have plans, long term strategy or case studies about > the detrimental effect of traditional unix leftovers? At the current > state rhel5 and the ongoing fc branch seemingly enjoys this tradition, > and there's no sign of real change. > > Is this indeed the future? Interested in a change and someone needs to look at the different init systems and evaluate them. See http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Releases/FeatureNewInit. The change itself is unlikely to happen for Fedora 7. Rahul From sundaram at fedoraproject.org Thu Jan 25 13:57:40 2007 From: sundaram at fedoraproject.org (Rahul Sundaram) Date: Thu, 25 Jan 2007 19:27:40 +0530 Subject: whereis the static fedora-release-notes file ? In-Reply-To: References: <45B891DB.1080706@fedoraproject.org> Message-ID: <45B8B754.4090108@fedoraproject.org> Anuj Verma (Kevin) wrote: > On Thu, 25 Jan 2007 16:47:47 +0530, Rahul Sundaram wrote: > >> file:///usr/share/doc/HTML/index-en_US.html # rpm -ql fedora-release-notes >> >> Rahul > > True, but why are we not keeping a text file there as well ? > > Just curious to know. HTML to text conversion is trivial with lynx. We use docbook XML for all the source content. If you find it useful to have a separate release notes in text format, that can be done. Do file a RFE against the component in Red Hat bugzilla. Rahul From jkeating at redhat.com Thu Jan 25 14:10:27 2007 From: jkeating at redhat.com (Jesse Keating) Date: Thu, 25 Jan 2007 09:10:27 -0500 Subject: kernel-xen-2.6? (was: Re: rawhide report: 20070125 changes) In-Reply-To: <45B8A500.8060503@leemhuis.info> References: <200701251110.l0PBA7BR023156@hs20-bc2-6.build.redhat.com> <45B8A500.8060503@leemhuis.info> Message-ID: <200701250910.34829.jkeating@redhat.com> On Thursday 25 January 2007 07:39, Thorsten Leemhuis wrote: > - until now we had the (unwritten?) rule that we have only one kernel > srpm in Fedora and that other kernels packages are not allowed > (especially not in Extras -- but Extras and Core are no more). When did > that change? Who decided that -- I'd say such a important change should > get ACKed by FESCo, but seems I have missed that... Anyway: Does that > mean that we could have a -rt, -vserver, -openvz, -vanilla, -foo or -bar > kernels in Fedora now, too (?)? > > - this to some degree breaks the kmod packaging (that was designed under > the assumption(?) we have only one kernel-package with a lot of > subpackages that all have the same version-release). Okay, it's not that > bad as you can build the kmod srpm once for the real kernels and then > for the xen-kernels, but that requires to set up the buildroot up twice > for each arch -- that takes a lot of time :-/ . The kernel-xen package is a quick hack to get xen possibly working for Test1. We still want to get it working in our main kernel, but ran out of runway for test1. It is not going to stay around for long, nor should any kmods be built against it or any policy around it. We were only caring about the output, to get a kernel-xen variant. Please don't see this as a policy, just a quick hack for test1. I may even untag it for rawhide after test1, undecided yet. -- Jesse Keating Release Engineer: Fedora -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 189 bytes Desc: not available URL: From jwboyer at jdub.homelinux.org Thu Jan 25 14:13:37 2007 From: jwboyer at jdub.homelinux.org (Josh Boyer) Date: Thu, 25 Jan 2007 08:13:37 -0600 Subject: Any plans to add support for new features of laptops targeting Vista? In-Reply-To: <20070125134843.GA22278@redhat.com> References: <20070125134843.GA22278@redhat.com> Message-ID: <1169734418.7011.88.camel@zod.rchland.ibm.com> On Thu, 2007-01-25 at 08:48 -0500, John W. Linville wrote: > On Thu, Jan 25, 2007 at 02:05:25AM -0800, Miles Lane wrote: > > > This article introduces a bunch of new laptop technologies that > > Microsoft is supporting in Vista. According to the article, > > > Is there any hardware specs are out there for these > > new chunks of hardware? > > > > Here's an article discussing the new gizmos: > > http://www.reghardware.co.uk/2007/01/23/windows_vista_laptops/page3.html > > Sounds kinda cool. ReadyBoost sounds to me like a wizard for > using memory cards as swap space. ReadyDrive sounds like it could > be self-contained in new hard drives, but I suppose it might need > some OS support or enablement. SuperFetch sounds like an actual OS > component -- something to make their VM more purposely aware of the > ReadyBoost and ReadyDrive features. > > SideShow sounds cool, but it really does just look to be a built-in > PDA. It would be good get some specs to see if we could get Opie > or somesuch ready for it, and Fedora ready to sync with it "out of > the box". > > Anyone have more technical information? I wonder how much the vendors > are allowed to share with us? I recommend exercising caution and doing your homework when thinking about implementing these things. josh From jeff at ocjtech.us Thu Jan 25 14:17:18 2007 From: jeff at ocjtech.us (Jeffrey C. Ollie) Date: Thu, 25 Jan 2007 08:17:18 -0600 Subject: Any plans to add support for new features of laptops targeting Vista? In-Reply-To: <20070125134843.GA22278@redhat.com> References: <20070125134843.GA22278@redhat.com> Message-ID: <1169734638.3867.11.camel@lt21223.campus.dmacc.edu> On Thu, 2007-01-25 at 08:48 -0500, John W. Linville wrote: > On Thu, Jan 25, 2007 at 02:05:25AM -0800, Miles Lane wrote: > > > This article introduces a bunch of new laptop technologies that > > Microsoft is supporting in Vista. According to the article, > > > Is there any hardware specs are out there for these > > new chunks of hardware? > > > > Here's an article discussing the new gizmos: > > http://www.reghardware.co.uk/2007/01/23/windows_vista_laptops/page3.html > > Sounds kinda cool. ReadyBoost sounds to me like a wizard for > using memory cards as swap space. Using a memory card/stick as swap should already be possible on Linux. You might gain some short term improvements, but many of the chips used in those memory sticks have limited write cycles. Using it as swap would likely significantly reduce the lifetime of the memory stick. The other problem (mentioned in the article) is that most memory sticks aren't that fast. > ReadyDrive sounds like it could > be self-contained in new hard drives, but I suppose it might need > some OS support or enablement. If it's built into the drive and doesn't need any support from the OS, Linux should be able to take advantage of it. > SuperFetch sounds like an actual OS > component -- something to make their VM more purposely aware of the > ReadyBoost and ReadyDrive features. SuperFetch sounds to me like Microsoft's marketing folks are just making a big deal out of a smarter virtual memory manager. Lots of work has gone into Linux's virtual memory management so I doubt that there's much to be learned from Microsoft on this front. > SideShow sounds cool, but it really does just look to be a built-in > PDA. It would be good get some specs to see if we could get Opie > or somesuch ready for it, and Fedora ready to sync with it "out of > the box". If there are technical specs available, I'm sure someone will try putting Linux on it. Jeff -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: signature.asc Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 189 bytes Desc: This is a digitally signed message part URL: From fedora at camperquake.de Thu Jan 25 14:20:22 2007 From: fedora at camperquake.de (Ralf Ertzinger) Date: Thu, 25 Jan 2007 15:20:22 +0100 Subject: Compiz vs. OpenGL using programs Message-ID: <20070125152022.4fd493d9@banea.int.addix.net> Hi. Before I start filing bugs: is it expected that using compiz while running applications that use OpenGL themselves results in funny display programs? Or is this supposed to work and not doing so is a driver bug? From mpknoop at gmail.com Thu Jan 25 14:25:44 2007 From: mpknoop at gmail.com (Mark Knoop) Date: Thu, 25 Jan 2007 14:25:44 +0000 Subject: Any plans to add support for new features of laptops targeting Vista? In-Reply-To: <1169734638.3867.11.camel@lt21223.campus.dmacc.edu> References: <20070125134843.GA22278@redhat.com> <1169734638.3867.11.camel@lt21223.campus.dmacc.edu> Message-ID: <42420bfb0701250625i569d5b42n90e12322a2fca6e4@mail.gmail.com> On 25/01/07, Jeffrey C. Ollie wrote: > On Thu, 2007-01-25 at 08:48 -0500, John W. Linville wrote: > > SideShow sounds cool, but it really does just look to be a built-in > > PDA. It would be good get some specs to see if we could get Opie > > or somesuch ready for it, and Fedora ready to sync with it "out of > > the box". > > If there are technical specs available, I'm sure someone will try > putting Linux on it. Quite possibly, even if there aren't... -- Mark Knoop From andrew at digital-domain.net Thu Jan 25 14:41:46 2007 From: andrew at digital-domain.net (Andrew Clayton) Date: Thu, 25 Jan 2007 14:41:46 +0000 Subject: Compiz vs. OpenGL using programs In-Reply-To: <20070125152022.4fd493d9@banea.int.addix.net> References: <20070125152022.4fd493d9@banea.int.addix.net> Message-ID: <20070125144146.4bdd4e32@zeus.pccl.info> On Thu, 25 Jan 2007 15:20:22 +0100, Ralf Ertzinger wrote: > Hi. > > Before I start filing bugs: is it expected that using compiz while > running applications that use OpenGL themselves results in funny > display programs? AIUI yes, some more work is needed to make the two play nice together, along with XVideo. > Or is this supposed to work and not doing so is a driver bug? > From linville at redhat.com Thu Jan 25 15:15:15 2007 From: linville at redhat.com (John W. Linville) Date: Thu, 25 Jan 2007 10:15:15 -0500 Subject: Any plans to add support for new features of laptops targeting Vista? In-Reply-To: <1169734418.7011.88.camel@zod.rchland.ibm.com> References: <20070125134843.GA22278@redhat.com> <1169734418.7011.88.camel@zod.rchland.ibm.com> Message-ID: <20070125151515.GB22278@redhat.com> On Thu, Jan 25, 2007 at 08:13:37AM -0600, Josh Boyer wrote: > On Thu, 2007-01-25 at 08:48 -0500, John W. Linville wrote: > > Anyone have more technical information? I wonder how much the vendors > > are allowed to share with us? > > I recommend exercising caution and doing your homework when thinking > about implementing these things. Perhaps my request for more information seemed unclear? -- John W. Linville linville at redhat.com From linville at redhat.com Thu Jan 25 15:17:27 2007 From: linville at redhat.com (John W. Linville) Date: Thu, 25 Jan 2007 10:17:27 -0500 Subject: Any plans to add support for new features of laptops targeting Vista? In-Reply-To: <1169734638.3867.11.camel@lt21223.campus.dmacc.edu> References: <20070125134843.GA22278@redhat.com> <1169734638.3867.11.camel@lt21223.campus.dmacc.edu> Message-ID: <20070125151727.GC22278@redhat.com> On Thu, Jan 25, 2007 at 08:17:18AM -0600, Jeffrey C. Ollie wrote: > On Thu, 2007-01-25 at 08:48 -0500, John W. Linville wrote: > > SideShow sounds cool, but it really does just look to be a built-in > > PDA. It would be good get some specs to see if we could get Opie > > or somesuch ready for it, and Fedora ready to sync with it "out of > > the box". > > If there are technical specs available, I'm sure someone will try > putting Linux on it. Well, thanks for stating the obvious... -- John W. Linville linville at redhat.com From giallu at gmail.com Thu Jan 25 15:37:33 2007 From: giallu at gmail.com (Gianluca Sforna) Date: Thu, 25 Jan 2007 16:37:33 +0100 Subject: kernel-xen-2.6? (was: Re: rawhide report: 20070125 changes) In-Reply-To: <200701250910.34829.jkeating@redhat.com> References: <200701251110.l0PBA7BR023156@hs20-bc2-6.build.redhat.com> <45B8A500.8060503@leemhuis.info> <200701250910.34829.jkeating@redhat.com> Message-ID: On 1/25/07, Jesse Keating wrote: > > The kernel-xen package is a quick hack to get xen possibly working for Test1. > We still want to get it working in our main kernel, but ran out of runway for > test1. It is not going to stay around for long, nor should any kmods be > built against it or any policy around it. We were only caring about the > output, to get a kernel-xen variant. Phew. I was just wondering how to deal with it... From tswan at idigx.com Thu Jan 25 15:54:57 2007 From: tswan at idigx.com (Thomas Swan) Date: Thu, 25 Jan 2007 09:54:57 -0600 Subject: FC6 on a HP DC7700 In-Reply-To: <45A7492A.6010502@crc.dk> References: <45A58C61.3080206@idigx.com> <45A5EA62.5080901@crc.dk> <1168559971.18249.5.camel@aurora.localdomain> <45A738E3.4070008@crc.dk> <45A7492A.6010502@crc.dk> Message-ID: <45B8D2D1.7030103@idigx.com> Mogens Kjaer wrote: > Mogens Kjaer wrote: >> Trever L. Adams wrote: >> ... >>> Can you try it with acpi on and the noapic command? >> >> No, it still doesn't boot. >> >> The last line written is: >> >> ACPI: Assume root bridge [\_SB_.PCI0] bus is 0 >> >> Mogens > > I've tried with the 2.6.19-1.2895 x86_64 kernel, > and now it requires both acpi=off and noapic. > > Without noapic it panics immediately. > upgraded the BIOS to at least 1.09 and the system requires no special parameters to install and run. However, adding hda=noprobe and hdc=noprobe significantly improves disk i/o (from 4MB/s to 65MB/s). Problem solved. From seg at haxxed.com Thu Jan 25 16:38:02 2007 From: seg at haxxed.com (Callum Lerwick) Date: Thu, 25 Jan 2007 10:38:02 -0600 Subject: "yum update" failure and resulting cleanup headaches. In-Reply-To: <45B5FF28.5040603@iinet.net.au> References: <1169529797.24378.14.camel@dragon.valuecommerce.ne.jp> <45B5FF28.5040603@iinet.net.au> Message-ID: <1169743082.14499.4.camel@localhost.localdomain> On Tue, 2007-01-23 at 23:27 +1100, David Timms wrote: > b. there is a different issue where there might be a problem with the > rpmdb. If this occurs, an rpm -q kernel would work, but an rpm -qa|grep > kernel hangs, forever. If this is the case, the other rpm based tools > (yum/pup/pirut) also hang if an attempt is made to run them. In this > case it is necessary to do the ~ rm /var/lib/__db.00* to fix rpm. > > If you have both problems, you need to take care of b. first. > > There has been some requests for yum to be more [bad eg mains reboot > during update!] fault tolerant. I forget whether these where on the yum, > yum-devel or comments on seths blog that has the dupes-cli.py The having to rm /var/lib/__db.00* problem has been around since RH8.0, and has yet to be completely fixed. This is not yum's fault, its rpm. Or possibly, ultimately db4's fault. Or rpm using db4 incorrectly. Hell if I know, all I know is I want it !@#$ing fixed. I'm hoping the new community RPM upstream project can sort this out soon... Especially now that we have yum-updatesd. On at least two occasions, I've tried to use yum, only to have it lock up on me. I have to kill -9 the yum I attempted to run, then kill -9 yum-updatesd, and kill -9 the rpmq cronjob that maintains /var/log/rpmpkgs thats hung in the background, THEN I can rm /var/lib/__db.00* and use yum again. No idea what broke the locking in the first place. Possibly the cron job and yum-updatesd colliding? WHY THE FUCK HAS THIS SHIT BEEN TOLERATED FOR SO LONG? -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: signature.asc Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 189 bytes Desc: This is a digitally signed message part URL: From a.badger at gmail.com Thu Jan 25 16:42:04 2007 From: a.badger at gmail.com (Toshio Kuratomi) Date: Thu, 25 Jan 2007 08:42:04 -0800 Subject: New VCS Choice; SCM SIG In-Reply-To: References: <1169160615.14225.127.camel@localhost.localdomain> Message-ID: <1169743324.5106.178.camel@localhost.localdomain> On Thu, 2007-01-25 at 08:42 -0500, Neal Becker wrote: > How can I update the wiki (currently it's immutable)? > > I'd like to note progress on mercurial (hg): > > 1) Symlinks now working in current mainline > 2) Not certain, but I think 'forest extension' addresses the issue that only > complete repos can be checked out. Are you in the edit group and logged in? AFAIK, that section of the wiki is not under any special ACLs. -Toshio -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: signature.asc Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 189 bytes Desc: This is a digitally signed message part URL: From bela.pesics at gmail.com Thu Jan 25 16:26:50 2007 From: bela.pesics at gmail.com (Bela Pesics) Date: Thu, 25 Jan 2007 17:26:50 +0100 Subject: NewInit and red plans ( aka "is it true that redhat linux is not unix" ) In-Reply-To: <45B8B69D.7020409@fedoraproject.org> References: <45B8B69D.7020409@fedoraproject.org> Message-ID: On 1/25/07, Rahul Sundaram wrote: > Bela Pesics wrote: > > Just out of curiosity, isn't redhat interested in this feature? It's > > alright if not, before someone briefs me on the joyful relationship of > > red and the community. > > > > http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Releases/FeatureNewInit?highlight=%28CategoryFedora7Features%29 > > > > > > Btw. does redhat have plans, long term strategy or case studies about > > the detrimental effect of traditional unix leftovers? At the current > > state rhel5 and the ongoing fc branch seemingly enjoys this tradition, > > and there's no sign of real change. > > > > Is this indeed the future? > > Interested in a change and someone needs to look at the different init You might be interested, but RedHat's interest might be subtle. :-) I would even be able to imagine that it is totally out of interest. But why? Conservation has lower risk on short term. Yes, short term, it's a pity. > systems and evaluate them. See > http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Releases/FeatureNewInit. The change itself > is unlikely to happen for Fedora 7. Thx. Well, that's already known (at least because it's linked at the bottom of the page). IMO upstart is the only realistic candidate right now. Open to doubt. Bela From sundaram at fedoraproject.org Thu Jan 25 17:48:02 2007 From: sundaram at fedoraproject.org (Rahul Sundaram) Date: Thu, 25 Jan 2007 23:18:02 +0530 Subject: NewInit and red plans ( aka "is it true that redhat linux is not unix" ) In-Reply-To: References: <45B8B69D.7020409@fedoraproject.org> Message-ID: <45B8ED52.9050303@fedoraproject.org> Bela Pesics wrote: >> >> Interested in a change and someone needs to look at the different init > > You might be interested, but RedHat's interest might be subtle. :-) Yes, Talking about Red Hat or atleast some Red Hat developers here. > I would even be able to imagine that it is totally out of interest. > But why? Conservation has lower risk on short term. Yes, short term, > it's a pity. You seem to persist on your assumptions that there isnt a interest. If you are prepared to do the work, go ahead. Rahul From nicolas.mailhot at laposte.net Thu Jan 25 17:54:42 2007 From: nicolas.mailhot at laposte.net (Nicolas Mailhot) Date: Thu, 25 Jan 2007 18:54:42 +0100 Subject: "yum update" failure and resulting cleanup headaches. In-Reply-To: <1169743082.14499.4.camel@localhost.localdomain> References: <1169529797.24378.14.camel@dragon.valuecommerce.ne.jp> <45B5FF28.5040603@iinet.net.au> <1169743082.14499.4.camel@localhost.localdomain> Message-ID: <1169747682.15257.9.camel@rousalka.dyndns.org> Le jeudi 25 janvier 2007 ? 10:38 -0600, Callum Lerwick a ?crit : > The having to rm /var/lib/__db.00* problem has been around since RH8.0, > and has yet to be completely fixed. This is not yum's fault, its rpm. Or > possibly, ultimately db4's fault. Or rpm using db4 incorrectly. Hell if > I know, all I know is I want it !@#$ing fixed. I'm hoping the new > community RPM upstream project can sort this out soon... It'd be interesting to see how rpm fares with 2.6.19+ kernels. IIRC recently in the course of investigating another problem Linus fixed some code and wondered publicly if this longstanding bug wouldn't impact stuff like bdb. And then several heavy bdb users (openldap?) piped in they've been hunting an elusive corruption for a long time without realising the problem may be kernel-side. And that latest Linus kernel fixed it. Looks suspiciously like the rpm thing. -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: signature.asc Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 197 bytes Desc: Ceci est une partie de message num?riquement sign?e URL: From krh at redhat.com Thu Jan 25 18:59:16 2007 From: krh at redhat.com (=?ISO-8859-1?Q?Kristian_H=F8gsberg?=) Date: Thu, 25 Jan 2007 13:59:16 -0500 Subject: Compiz vs. OpenGL using programs In-Reply-To: <20070125152022.4fd493d9@banea.int.addix.net> References: <20070125152022.4fd493d9@banea.int.addix.net> Message-ID: <45B8FE04.3080002@redhat.com> Ralf Ertzinger wrote: > Hi. > > Before I start filing bugs: is it expected that using compiz while running > applications that use OpenGL themselves results in funny display programs? > > Or is this supposed to work and not doing so is a driver bug? This is a known bug, but it requires significant changes in the underlying rendering stack to fix it. It's not a per driver thing, direct rendering stack currently doesn't work with composite. I think compiz will unredirect fullscreen OpenGL windows, so fullscreen games and the like should work. Things are slowly starting to fall into place to allow us to fix this problem, but for now, the fix is to either go back to a non-composited desktop, or live with the rendering artifatcs. cheers, Kristian From bela.pesics at gmail.com Thu Jan 25 19:45:34 2007 From: bela.pesics at gmail.com (Bela Pesics) Date: Thu, 25 Jan 2007 20:45:34 +0100 Subject: NewInit and red plans ( aka "is it true that redhat linux is not unix" ) In-Reply-To: <45B8ED52.9050303@fedoraproject.org> References: <45B8B69D.7020409@fedoraproject.org> <45B8ED52.9050303@fedoraproject.org> Message-ID: On 1/25/07, Rahul Sundaram wrote: > Bela Pesics wrote: > > >> > >> Interested in a change and someone needs to look at the different init > > > > You might be interested, but RedHat's interest might be subtle. :-) > > Yes, Talking about Red Hat or atleast some Red Hat developers here. > > > I would even be able to imagine that it is totally out of interest. > > But why? Conservation has lower risk on short term. Yes, short term, > > it's a pity. > > You seem to persist on your assumptions that there isnt a interest. If > you are prepared to do the work, go ahead. Yeah, I do! You know it's strange to mix developer and company interest! :-) I am quite happy that you express and share your personal opinoin on this, however I would be more interested in rhats long term resource schedule strategy... because obviously such thing as the new init is not in the focus, but this project is inherently dependent on the hat. == what's in focus then? ignore or answer me offlist Bela From fedora at camperquake.de Thu Jan 25 21:14:39 2007 From: fedora at camperquake.de (Ralf Ertzinger) Date: Thu, 25 Jan 2007 22:14:39 +0100 Subject: Compiz vs. OpenGL using programs In-Reply-To: <45B8FE04.3080002@redhat.com> References: <20070125152022.4fd493d9@banea.int.addix.net> <45B8FE04.3080002@redhat.com> Message-ID: <20070125221439.4aad8daa@lain.camperquake.de> Hi. On Thu, 25 Jan 2007 13:59:16 -0500, Kristian H?gsberg wrote > This is a known bug, but it requires significant changes in the > underlying rendering stack to fix it. It's not a per driver thing, > direct rendering stack currently doesn't work with composite. I > think compiz will unredirect fullscreen OpenGL windows, so fullscreen > games and the like should work. Thanks for the answer. Acually, full screen rendering seems to be busted, too, but since compiz can get out of my way without restarting X that is not too bad. From jkeating at redhat.com Thu Jan 25 21:19:53 2007 From: jkeating at redhat.com (Jesse Keating) Date: Thu, 25 Jan 2007 16:19:53 -0500 Subject: Want to help QA the Test1 release? Message-ID: <200701251619.56694.jkeating@redhat.com> We could really use it (: I need to have a tree handed off by tomorrow in order to meet the Tuesday release deadline. http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/QA/7/Test1TreeTesting Start there and let us know! We'll try to fill in the found bugs as we find them, or the common known issues. Given that this is Test1, its going to be a little rough. -- Jesse Keating Release Engineer: Fedora -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 189 bytes Desc: not available URL: From poelstra at redhat.com Thu Jan 25 21:25:20 2007 From: poelstra at redhat.com (John Poelstra) Date: Thu, 25 Jan 2007 13:25:20 -0800 Subject: Want to help QA the Test1 release? In-Reply-To: <200701251619.56694.jkeating@redhat.com> References: <200701251619.56694.jkeating@redhat.com> Message-ID: <45B92040.4050607@redhat.com> Jesse Keating said the following on 01/25/2007 01:19 PM Pacific Time: > We could really use it (: I need to have a tree handed off by tomorrow in > order to meet the Tuesday release deadline. > > http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/QA/7/Test1TreeTesting > > Start there and let us know! We'll try to fill in the found bugs as we find > them, or the common known issues. Given that this is Test1, its going to be > a little rough. > > For someone wanting to help test, where are directions on how to get the latest tree? The wiki page only talks about testing from ISOs that you create yourself. Thanks, John From jkeating at redhat.com Thu Jan 25 21:37:40 2007 From: jkeating at redhat.com (Jesse Keating) Date: Thu, 25 Jan 2007 16:37:40 -0500 Subject: Want to help QA the Test1 release? In-Reply-To: <45B92040.4050607@redhat.com> References: <200701251619.56694.jkeating@redhat.com> <45B92040.4050607@redhat.com> Message-ID: <200701251637.41135.jkeating@redhat.com> On Thursday 25 January 2007 16:25, John Poelstra wrote: > For someone wanting to help test, where are directions on how to get the > latest tree? ?The wiki page only talks about testing from ISOs that you > create yourself. As the wiki states, getting the latest tree+isos out to people is a logistical nightmare. The spins are created from rawhide, therefor you could test rawhide. The spins you do on your own will help you test how we're trying to gather things up for the Desktop spin. -- Jesse Keating Release Engineer: Fedora -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 189 bytes Desc: not available URL: From jdogalt at yahoo.com Thu Jan 25 22:19:57 2007 From: jdogalt at yahoo.com (Jane Dogalt) Date: Thu, 25 Jan 2007 14:19:57 -0800 (PST) Subject: Want to help QA the Test1 release? In-Reply-To: <200701251619.56694.jkeating@redhat.com> Message-ID: <622142.89769.qm@web56904.mail.re3.yahoo.com> --- Jesse Keating wrote: > We could really use it (: I need to have a tree handed off by > tomorrow in > order to meet the Tuesday release deadline. > > http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/QA/7/Test1TreeTesting > > Start there and let us know! Ok, asside from the 'building iso sets' as '(todo)', which will no doubt be done soon, I would like to pose this build question (I'll subscribe to buildsys soon, I promise). What part of the iso 'spin' process requires root, and why? I've skimmed enough mock docs to see that mock even has a root setuid hook. >From a 'philosophical' point of view, it seems like root really ought not be needed by a program which inputs the development repo over the net, and outputs iso images. I am very serious about working to bring about a non-root 'spin'(/strain in my vernacular) process. qemu is what I'm working with now to accomplish this, and the performance is definitely adequate for the hobbyist distro builder. But of course qemu ought not be necessary to accomplish this, unless I'm missing something. I'd appreciate any commentary or pointers to relevent historical threads. -dmc/jdog ____________________________________________________________________________________ The fish are biting. Get more visitors on your site using Yahoo! Search Marketing. http://searchmarketing.yahoo.com/arp/sponsoredsearch_v2.php From jdogalt at yahoo.com Thu Jan 25 22:38:53 2007 From: jdogalt at yahoo.com (Jane Dogalt) Date: Thu, 25 Jan 2007 14:38:53 -0800 (PST) Subject: Want to help QA the Test1 release? In-Reply-To: <622142.89769.qm@web56904.mail.re3.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <617700.51950.qm@web56907.mail.re3.yahoo.com> Replying to myself... --- Jane Dogalt wrote: > --- Jesse Keating wrote > > > We could really use it (: I need to have a tree handed off by > > tomorrow in > > order to meet the Tuesday release deadline. > > > > http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/QA/7/Test1TreeTesting > > > > Start there and let us know! > > Ok, asside from the 'building iso sets' as '(todo)', which will no > doubt be done soon, I would like to pose this build question (I'll > subscribe to buildsys soon, I promise). > > What part of the iso 'spin' process requires root, and why? I've > skimmed enough mock docs to see that mock even has a root setuid > hook. > >From a 'philosophical' point of view, it seems like root really > ought > not be needed by a program which inputs the development repo over the > net, and outputs iso images. > Ok, google://"mock setuid" yields a fair answer... http://www.mail-archive.com/fedora-buildsys-list at redhat.com/msg00563.html I guess I should go read the rest of that thread to figure out where the work remains to get a pungi/mock build that doesn't require any root priveleges... > I am very serious about working to bring about a non-root > 'spin'(/strain in my vernacular) process. qemu is what I'm working > with now to accomplish this, and the performance is definitely > adequate > for the hobbyist distro builder. But of course qemu ought not be > necessary to accomplish this, unless I'm missing something. > > I'd appreciate any commentary or pointers to relevent historical > threads. > > -dmc/jdog > > > > > > ____________________________________________________________________________________ > The fish are biting. > Get more visitors on your site using Yahoo! Search Marketing. > http://searchmarketing.yahoo.com/arp/sponsoredsearch_v2.php > > -- > fedora-devel-list mailing list > fedora-devel-list at redhat.com > https://www.redhat.com/mailman/listinfo/fedora-devel-list > ____________________________________________________________________________________ Need Mail bonding? Go to the Yahoo! Mail Q&A for great tips from Yahoo! Answers users. http://answers.yahoo.com/dir/?link=list&sid=396546091 From jkeating at redhat.com Thu Jan 25 22:45:30 2007 From: jkeating at redhat.com (Jesse Keating) Date: Thu, 25 Jan 2007 17:45:30 -0500 Subject: Want to help QA the Test1 release? In-Reply-To: <617700.51950.qm@web56907.mail.re3.yahoo.com> References: <617700.51950.qm@web56907.mail.re3.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <200701251745.30940.jkeating@redhat.com> On Thursday 25 January 2007 17:38, Jane Dogalt wrote: > I guess I should go read the rest of that thread to figure out where > the work remains to get a pungi/mock build that doesn't require any > root priveleges... A way for users to create and mount loopback filesystems for the anaconda stage1/2 images. -- Jesse Keating Release Engineer: Fedora -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 189 bytes Desc: not available URL: From jdogalt at yahoo.com Thu Jan 25 22:52:05 2007 From: jdogalt at yahoo.com (Jane Dogalt) Date: Thu, 25 Jan 2007 14:52:05 -0800 (PST) Subject: Want to help QA the Test1 release? In-Reply-To: <200701251745.30940.jkeating@redhat.com> Message-ID: <506030.87895.qm@web56906.mail.re3.yahoo.com> --- Jesse Keating wrote: > On Thursday 25 January 2007 17:38, Jane Dogalt wrote: > > I guess I should go read the rest of that thread to figure out > where > > the work remains to get a pungi/mock build that doesn't require any > > root priveleges... > > A way for users to create and mount loopback filesystems for the > anaconda > stage1/2 images. How's this: I've been deep in the initrd created by pilgrim for livecds... I've recently read someones post on this list suggesting that an initrd could be fleshed out into a fully functional rescue system... I've been in the initrd pursuing my rebootless installer idea, which actually looks pretty trivial... (I'm confident it will be done by fudcon).... I've been upset at how much time I've spent on various hacks to provide input to qemu, when it appears the --append, --kernel, and --initrd probably will get me what I need in a cleaner way... AND NOW... I think I can solve the problem you just stated- make an initrd as fat or a bit fatter even than the pilgrim livecd, then use qemu with no system image other than a specified kernel/initrd that come from the running system. Use qemu disk images for input/output (i.e. use .tgz files for qemu's -hdb and -hdd, input and output. I.e. inside qemu you tar xvzf /dev/hdb, and when you are done creating output, you tar cvzf /dev/hdd). That seems like a very slick, very minimal qemu-hook way to accomplish what you just said. No? -dmc/jdog ____________________________________________________________________________________ Never Miss an Email Stay connected with Yahoo! Mail on your mobile. Get started! http://mobile.yahoo.com/services?promote=mail From jcm at redhat.com Thu Jan 25 22:59:23 2007 From: jcm at redhat.com (Jon Masters) Date: Thu, 25 Jan 2007 17:59:23 -0500 Subject: Want to help QA the Test1 release? In-Reply-To: <200701251745.30940.jkeating@redhat.com> References: <617700.51950.qm@web56907.mail.re3.yahoo.com> <200701251745.30940.jkeating@redhat.com> Message-ID: <45B9364B.7060407@redhat.com> Jesse Keating wrote: > On Thursday 25 January 2007 17:38, Jane Dogalt wrote: >> I guess I should go read the rest of that thread to figure out where >> the work remains to get a pungi/mock build that doesn't require any >> root priveleges... > > A way for users to create and mount loopback filesystems for the anaconda > stage1/2 images. A horrible FUSE hack or nasty LD_PRELOAD wrapper come to mind... Jon. From jdogalt at yahoo.com Thu Jan 25 23:07:34 2007 From: jdogalt at yahoo.com (Jane Dogalt) Date: Thu, 25 Jan 2007 15:07:34 -0800 (PST) Subject: Want to help QA the Test1 release? In-Reply-To: <45B9364B.7060407@redhat.com> Message-ID: <707673.32185.qm@web56913.mail.re3.yahoo.com> --- Jon Masters wrote: > Jesse Keating wrote: > > On Thursday 25 January 2007 17:38, Jane Dogalt wrote: > >> I guess I should go read the rest of that thread to figure out > where > >> the work remains to get a pungi/mock build that doesn't require > any > >> root priveleges... > > > > A way for users to create and mount loopback filesystems for the > anaconda > > stage1/2 images. > > A horrible FUSE hack or nasty LD_PRELOAD wrapper come to mind... Nah... at least for now, fuse still requires root to put you in the fuse group. Problem solved though, see my other post :) -dmc/jdog > > Jon. > > -- > fedora-devel-list mailing list > fedora-devel-list at redhat.com > https://www.redhat.com/mailman/listinfo/fedora-devel-list > ____________________________________________________________________________________ 8:00? 8:25? 8:40? Find a flick in no time with the Yahoo! Search movie showtime shortcut. http://tools.search.yahoo.com/shortcuts/#news From jdogalt at yahoo.com Fri Jan 26 00:28:20 2007 From: jdogalt at yahoo.com (Jane Dogalt) Date: Thu, 25 Jan 2007 16:28:20 -0800 (PST) Subject: Want to help QA the Test1 release? In-Reply-To: <506030.87895.qm@web56906.mail.re3.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <127228.28531.qm@web56908.mail.re3.yahoo.com> Replying to myself again... --- Jane Dogalt wrote: > > --- Jesse Keating wrote: > > > On Thursday 25 January 2007 17:38, Jane Dogalt wrote: > > > I guess I should go read the rest of that thread to figure out > > where > > > the work remains to get a pungi/mock build that doesn't require > any > > > root priveleges... > > > > A way for users to create and mount loopback filesystems for the > > anaconda > > stage1/2 images. > > > How's this: > > I've been deep in the initrd created by pilgrim for livecds... > > I've recently read someones post on this list suggesting that an > initrd > could be fleshed out into a fully functional rescue system... > > I've been in the initrd pursuing my rebootless installer idea, which > actually looks pretty trivial... (I'm confident it will be done by > fudcon).... > > I've been upset at how much time I've spent on various hacks to > provide > input to qemu, when it appears the --append, --kernel, and --initrd > probably will get me what I need in a cleaner way... > > AND NOW... > > I think I can solve the problem you just stated- > > make an initrd as fat or a bit fatter even than the pilgrim livecd, > then use qemu with no system image other than a specified > kernel/initrd > that come from the running system. Of course, since we no longer need loop/mount/mkfs for initramfs, you of course just build a custom initramfs based on existing ones, but adding the tools you need, i.e. mkfs. (and libs, as par pilgrim script) Or, if you really wanted to be sick, you could just pass the host root filesystem as a read only device to qemu, then have your custom initramfs mount it, chroot to it, and work from it mounted read only, writing data either to /dev/hdb as mentioned, or via qemu's emulated samba server. But certainly for pungi, this would be overkill, since all you would need is the short script qmkfs -t -o -r [-s transmogrifyscript.sh] So it grabs mkfs. from the host filesystem, copies it to the new initramfs along with the transmogrifyscript (for changing ownership/permissions of files and any other arbitrary stuff). Then it runs qemu with the new initramfs as described, eventually extracting the output to the file specified. I suppose if nobody else writes the above shell script first, I'll get around to it sooner or later... (I'm actually using a much more convoluted system currently which uses an entire fedora core installation that was just generated. Until I was digging deep into the very flexible initramfs in pilgrim (maybe not much different from core, I haven't looked), I didn't realize I could practically do everything I needed to do as root in just the initramfs environment. I want to give credit to Jason https://www.redhat.com/archives/fedora-devel-list/2007-January/msg01191.html who combined with my own sick adventures of creating md-raid1 mirrors underneath dm-snapshots by hand using DavidZ's pilgrim's initramfs eshell, inspired this design of qmkfs. -dmc/jdog ____________________________________________________________________________________ Food fight? Enjoy some healthy debate in the Yahoo! Answers Food & Drink Q&A. http://answers.yahoo.com/dir/?link=list&sid=396545367 From miles.lane at gmail.com Fri Jan 26 01:24:10 2007 From: miles.lane at gmail.com (Miles Lane) Date: Thu, 25 Jan 2007 17:24:10 -0800 Subject: Any plans to add support for new features of laptops targeting Vista? In-Reply-To: <20070125151727.GC22278@redhat.com> References: <20070125134843.GA22278@redhat.com> <1169734638.3867.11.camel@lt21223.campus.dmacc.edu> <20070125151727.GC22278@redhat.com> Message-ID: Here's what I can locate: http://www.t13.org/ http://download.microsoft.com/download/9/c/5/9c5b2167-8017-4bae-9fde-d599bac8184a/perfaccel.doc mms://wm.microsoft.com/ms/evnet/ReadyDrive_s_ch9.wmv http://msdn2.microsoft.com/en-us/library/aa907462.aspx http://www.google.com/url?sa=t&ct=res&cd=2&url=http%3A%2F%2Fdownload.microsoft.com%2Fdownload%2F5%2Fb%2F9%2F5b97017b-e28a-4bae-ba48-174cf47d23cd%2FCPA131_WH06.ppt&ei=8Eu5RcWcC42ajgGJ87mJBA&usg=__-UY47_D4_N11pRKP7y1QMRVvI0o=&sig2=SQPciwF3WmJ6Ys7yowIdwA http://www.google.com/url?sa=t&ct=res&cd=3&url=http%3A%2F%2Fdownload.microsoft.com%2Fdownload%2F9%2Fc%2F5%2F9c5b2167-8017-4bae-9fde-d599bac8184a%2Fperfaccel.doc&ei=8Eu5RcWcC42ajgGJ87mJBA&usg=__DWT_2xL3Rwk2Ei9ya_SzEu1AlPc=&sig2=qFKrB8aO0YLnIbOQ9WclGQ http://news.zdnet.co.uk/hardware/0,1000000091,39269295,00.htm http://download.microsoft.com/download/5/b/9/5b97017b-e28a-4bae-ba48-174cf47d23cd/STO008_WH06.ppt http://www.theinquirer.net/default.aspx?article=32718 "No mention of support for other OSes (read: Linux) has been forthcoming from any manufacturer ? unsurprisingly as this is a Microsoft initiative ? and it looks like there will be some wait for any third-party drivers that take full advantage of the cache." http://sudrien.net/technical/hybrid-disk-drives-part-2 http://www.codinghorror.com/blog/archives/000680.html http://www.codinghorror.com/mtype/mt-comments-renamed.cgi?entry_id=680 http://www.intel.com/technology/magazine/archive/tim1206.pdf: "Overcoming Disk Drive Access Bottlenecks with Intel(r) Robson Technology" From jwilliam at xmission.com Fri Jan 26 07:28:21 2007 From: jwilliam at xmission.com (Jerry Williams) Date: Fri, 26 Jan 2007 00:28:21 -0700 Subject: Want to help QA the Test1 release? pxe, NFS results In-Reply-To: <200701251619.56694.jkeating@redhat.com> References: <200701251619.56694.jkeating@redhat.com> Message-ID: <004b01c7411b$8e9b18c0$020aa8c0@a18> > -----Original Message----- > From: fedora-devel-list-bounces at redhat.com [mailto:fedora-devel-list- > bounces at redhat.com] On Behalf Of Jesse Keating > Sent: Thursday, January 25, 2007 2:20 PM > To: Development discussions related to Fedora Core > Subject: Want to help QA the Test1 release? > > We could really use it (: I need to have a tree handed off by tomorrow in > order to meet the Tuesday release deadline. > > http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/QA/7/Test1TreeTesting > > Start there and let us know! We'll try to fill in the found bugs as we > find > them, or the common known issues. Given that this is Test1, its going to > be > a little rough. > > -- > Jesse Keating > Release Engineer: Fedora Should reporting be done here or test list? I just did a pxe boot on a IBM ThinkPad T30 laptop and installed over NFS using IPv4 and things when fine. Took all the defaults. Noticed that under Applications, Games, Chess has no icon. 1 update gutenprint packages available. Had to import key. No errors. Tried to run each application Take Screenshot failed and bug buddy popped up and submitted bug to bugzilla.gnome.org id=400895 Chess, doesn't seem to work saw window pop up and go away. Klotski said: The theme for this game failed to render. Please check that Klotski is installed correctly. Mahjongg said: Could not load tile set Unable to render file: 'postmodern.svg' Please check that Mahjongg is installed correctly. Clicked okay and window came up. Mines said: Could not load images Required images have been found, but refused to load. Please check your installation of gnome-games and its dependencies. Quit IP Telephony, VoIp and Video Conferencing, tried to start and went away. Presentation, tried to start and then went away. Spreadsheet and Word Processor did the same thing. The rest of the applications under Applications seemed to start okay. From mk at crc.dk Fri Jan 26 09:34:53 2007 From: mk at crc.dk (Mogens Kjaer) Date: Fri, 26 Jan 2007 10:34:53 +0100 Subject: FC6 on a HP DC7700 In-Reply-To: <45B8D2D1.7030103@idigx.com> References: <45A58C61.3080206@idigx.com> <45A5EA62.5080901@crc.dk> <1168559971.18249.5.camel@aurora.localdomain> <45A738E3.4070008@crc.dk> <45A7492A.6010502@crc.dk> <45B8D2D1.7030103@idigx.com> Message-ID: <45B9CB3D.4080007@crc.dk> Thomas Swan wrote: ... > upgraded the BIOS to at least 1.09 and the system requires no special > parameters to install and run. However, adding hda=noprobe and > hdc=noprobe significantly improves disk i/o (from 4MB/s to 65MB/s). > Problem solved. > Not for me. I've flashed 1.09A, the BIOS lists it as: 786E1 v01.09 and no difference for me. Without acpi=off it stops with: ACPI:Assume root bridge [\_SB_.PCI0] bus is 0 Even with acpi=off it won't run kernel 2.6.19-1.2895.fc6 (x86_64). Mogens -- Mogens Kjaer, Carlsberg A/S, Computer Department Gamle Carlsberg Vej 10, DK-2500 Valby, Denmark Phone: +45 33 27 53 25, Fax: +45 33 27 47 08 Email: mk at crc.dk Homepage: http://www.crc.dk From buildsys at redhat.com Fri Jan 26 10:47:38 2007 From: buildsys at redhat.com (buildsys at redhat.com) Date: Fri, 26 Jan 2007 05:47:38 -0500 Subject: rawhide report: 20070126 changes Message-ID: <200701261047.l0QAlcRu027281@hs20-bc2-6.build.redhat.com> Updated Packages: (none) Broken deps for s390 ---------------------------------------------------------- systemtap - 0.5.10-1.fc7.s390 requires kernel >= 0:2.6.9-11 systemtap-runtime - 0.5.10-1.fc7.s390 requires kernel >= 0:2.6.9-11 From che666 at gmail.com Fri Jan 26 11:07:43 2007 From: che666 at gmail.com (Rudolf Kastl) Date: Fri, 26 Jan 2007 12:07:43 +0100 Subject: NewInit and red plans ( aka "is it true that redhat linux is not unix" ) In-Reply-To: References: <45B8B69D.7020409@fedoraproject.org> Message-ID: 2007/1/25, Bela Pesics : > On 1/25/07, Rahul Sundaram wrote: > > Bela Pesics wrote: > > > Just out of curiosity, isn't redhat interested in this feature? It's > > > alright if not, before someone briefs me on the joyful relationship of > > > red and the community. > > > > > > http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Releases/FeatureNewInit?highlight=%28CategoryFedora7Features%29 > > > > > > > > > Btw. does redhat have plans, long term strategy or case studies about > > > the detrimental effect of traditional unix leftovers? At the current > > > state rhel5 and the ongoing fc branch seemingly enjoys this tradition, > > > and there's no sign of real change. > > > > > > Is this indeed the future? > > > > Interested in a change and someone needs to look at the different init > > You might be interested, but RedHat's interest might be subtle. :-) > I would even be able to imagine that it is totally out of interest. > But why? Conservation has lower risk on short term. Yes, short term, > it's a pity. > > > systems and evaluate them. See > > http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Releases/FeatureNewInit. The change itself > > is unlikely to happen for Fedora 7. > > Thx. Well, that's already known (at least because it's linked at the > bottom of the page). > IMO upstart is the only realistic candidate right now. Open to doubt. Actually why? Saying "only A does the job" alone doesent help with proper decision making. regards, Rudolf Kastl > > Bela > > -- > fedora-devel-list mailing list > fedora-devel-list at redhat.com > https://www.redhat.com/mailman/listinfo/fedora-devel-list > From pertusus at free.fr Fri Jan 26 11:49:12 2007 From: pertusus at free.fr (Patrice Dumas) Date: Fri, 26 Jan 2007 12:49:12 +0100 Subject: NewInit and red plans ( aka "is it true that redhat linux is not unix" ) In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <20070126114912.GA2786@free.fr> On Thu, Jan 25, 2007 at 01:43:23PM +0100, Bela Pesics wrote: > Just out of curiosity, isn't redhat interested in this feature? It's > alright if not, before someone briefs me on the joyful relationship of > red and the community. initng is allready in fedora, therefore it can already be tested, it installs in parallel, you just have to chose the right line in grub. -- Pat From bela.pesics at gmail.com Fri Jan 26 12:11:35 2007 From: bela.pesics at gmail.com (Bela Pesics) Date: Fri, 26 Jan 2007 13:11:35 +0100 Subject: NewInit and red plans ( aka "is it true that redhat linux is not unix" ) In-Reply-To: References: <45B8B69D.7020409@fedoraproject.org> Message-ID: > > Thx. Well, that's already known (at least because it's linked at the > > bottom of the page). > > IMO upstart is the only realistic candidate right now. Open to doubt. > > Actually why? Saying "only A does the job" alone doesent help with > proper decision making. I did not say that. Bela From abo at kth.se Fri Jan 26 13:14:52 2007 From: abo at kth.se (Alexander =?ISO-8859-1?Q?Bostr=F6m?=) Date: Fri, 26 Jan 2007 14:14:52 +0100 Subject: kernel versionning problem In-Reply-To: <20070123001228.GD28558@angus.ind.WPI.EDU> References: <1169502233.4812.3.camel@bureau.maison> <20070123001228.GD28558@angus.ind.WPI.EDU> Message-ID: <1169817292.11896.42.camel@endor.ite.kth.se> m?n 2007-01-22 klockan 19:12 -0500 skrev Chuck Anderson: > keying off LINUX_VERSION_CODE is next to useless. If you patch the > kernel at all, what version does it become? Yeah... I maintain (outside Fedora) a set of packages of the Arla AFS client, and me and the upstream developer came to the conclusion that upstream should just target the latest vanilla kernels and then I do any Fedora kernel related patching in the rpms. It seems like the most sane way to deal with this kind of problem. (And it would be nice to see the code in the kernel, but there are problems with that too, sadly... It might be doable though.) /abo From stickster at gmail.com Fri Jan 26 13:31:19 2007 From: stickster at gmail.com (Paul W. Frields) Date: Fri, 26 Jan 2007 08:31:19 -0500 Subject: FC6, 2.6.19-1.2895, and suspend In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <1169818279.8044.0.camel@localhost.localdomain> On Tue, 2007-01-23 at 09:22 +0100, Gianluca Sforna wrote: > On 1/23/07, Joshua Baker-LePain wrote: > > It seems that the the upgrade to 2.6.19 has killed suspend for some folks > > on FC6 (BZ #223731). On my Thinkpad Z61t, the panel goes dark and then > > the moon symbol starts blinking and never stops (I have to hard reset it). > > The last entry in the log is: > > > > kernel: Disabling non-boot CPUs ... > > > > For grins, I tried the PAE kernel, but it appears to just ignore > > pm-suspend. What other information would be helpful in tracking this > > down? > > > > On my ASUS M6Ne suspend to disk (aka hibernate) is failing to actually > turn off the PC after shutting down hda: this with _any_ FC6 kernel. > Though I had the feature working in the FC5 timeframe. > > So a question for the QA guys: is there some infrastructure in place > to diagnose stuff like this? > I don't even know how to screen capture the last messages I'm seeing... See BZ #223604. -- Paul W. Frields, RHCE http://paul.frields.org/ gpg fingerprint: 3DA6 A0AC 6D58 FEC4 0233 5906 ACDB C937 BD11 3717 Fedora Project Board: http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Board Fedora Docs Project: http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/DocsProject -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: signature.asc Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 189 bytes Desc: This is a digitally signed message part URL: From mike at miketc.com Fri Jan 26 14:15:45 2007 From: mike at miketc.com (Mike Chambers) Date: Fri, 26 Jan 2007 08:15:45 -0600 Subject: Want to help QA the Test1 release? In-Reply-To: <200701251637.41135.jkeating@redhat.com> References: <200701251619.56694.jkeating@redhat.com> <45B92040.4050607@redhat.com> <200701251637.41135.jkeating@redhat.com> Message-ID: <1169820945.16741.3.camel@scrappy.miketc.com> On Thu, 2007-01-25 at 16:37 -0500, Jesse Keating wrote: > On Thursday 25 January 2007 16:25, John Poelstra wrote: > > For someone wanting to help test, where are directions on how to get the > > latest tree? The wiki page only talks about testing from ISOs that you > > create yourself. > > As the wiki states, getting the latest tree+isos out to people is a logistical > nightmare. The spins are created from rawhide, therefor you could test > rawhide. The spins you do on your own will help you test how we're trying to > gather things up for the Desktop spin. I had been having problems trying to do a rawhide install via NFS, although it was against the rawhide tree, not against an ISO (yes was using boot.iso). Is this allowed still or do you have to do it against an ISO image unless it's via ftp/http? Actually I had problems doing it against ftp/http as well (as in, "can't be mounted from the server"). Although I could download all the FC6 ISO's to the same mounted dir (diff sub dir) and install from them. So I am confused on what used to work, doesn't now? Mike From jkeating at redhat.com Fri Jan 26 15:22:05 2007 From: jkeating at redhat.com (Jesse Keating) Date: Fri, 26 Jan 2007 10:22:05 -0500 Subject: Want to help QA the Test1 release? In-Reply-To: <1169820945.16741.3.camel@scrappy.miketc.com> References: <200701251619.56694.jkeating@redhat.com> <200701251637.41135.jkeating@redhat.com> <1169820945.16741.3.camel@scrappy.miketc.com> Message-ID: <200701261022.08488.jkeating@redhat.com> On Friday 26 January 2007 09:15, Mike Chambers wrote: > I had been having problems trying to do a rawhide install via NFS, > although it was against the rawhide tree, not against an ISO (yes was > using boot.iso). ?Is this allowed still or do you have to do it against > an ISO image unless it's via ftp/http? ?Actually I had problems doing it > against ftp/http as well (as in, "can't be mounted from the server"). > Although I could download all the FC6 ISO's to the same mounted dir > (diff sub dir) and install from them. ?So I am confused on what used to > work, doesn't now? I'm not ruling out NFS issues in the kernel preventing NFS installs, I don't recall having tried that much recently, but I will try today. We haven't changed what we "support" in that aspect, it would be something lower level breaking. -- Jesse Keating Release Engineer: Fedora -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 189 bytes Desc: not available URL: From jarod at wilsonet.com Fri Jan 26 15:21:43 2007 From: jarod at wilsonet.com (Jarod Wilson) Date: Fri, 26 Jan 2007 10:21:43 -0500 Subject: Want to help QA the Test1 release? In-Reply-To: <200701251619.56694.jkeating@redhat.com> References: <200701251619.56694.jkeating@redhat.com> Message-ID: On Jan 25, 2007, at 4:19 PM, Jesse Keating wrote: > We could really use it (: I need to have a tree handed off by > tomorrow in > order to meet the Tuesday release deadline. > > http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/QA/7/Test1TreeTesting > > Start there and let us know! We'll try to fill in the found bugs > as we find > them, or the common known issues. Given that this is Test1, its > going to be > a little rough. Hey, cool, yesterday's rawhide installer can't find the PATA hard drive in either of my nForce2 systems... (yay for libata! :) /me will play w/one of the boxes more a bit later today... --jarod From redhat at olen.net Fri Jan 26 15:50:45 2007 From: redhat at olen.net (Ola Thoresen) Date: Fri, 26 Jan 2007 16:50:45 +0100 Subject: Want to help QA the Test1 release? In-Reply-To: <200701261022.08488.jkeating@redhat.com> References: <200701251619.56694.jkeating@redhat.com> <200701251637.41135.jkeating@redhat.com> <1169820945.16741.3.camel@scrappy.miketc.com> <200701261022.08488.jkeating@redhat.com> Message-ID: <45BA2355.3060102@olen.net> Jesse Keating wrote: > On Friday 26 January 2007 09:15, Mike Chambers wrote: >> I had been having problems trying to do a rawhide install via NFS, >> although it was against the rawhide tree, not against an ISO (yes was >> using boot.iso). Is this allowed still or do you have to do it against >> an ISO image unless it's via ftp/http? Actually I had problems doing it >> against ftp/http as well (as in, "can't be mounted from the server"). >> Although I could download all the FC6 ISO's to the same mounted dir >> (diff sub dir) and install from them. So I am confused on what used to >> work, doesn't now? > > I'm not ruling out NFS issues in the kernel preventing NFS installs, I don't > recall having tried that much recently, but I will try today. We haven't > changed what we "support" in that aspect, it would be something lower level > breaking. > > I have had some problems with NFS lately. Have not had the time to debug it properly, so I have no bugzilla entry. Seems like a locking problem, so I changed my fstab to mount the NFS-shares "nolock", and that seemed to fix the problem. This is 2 rawhide clients (both x86_64 and i386) mounting an Fedora 5 server. It started about one week ago, but I don't update and reboot the rawhide-clients daily, so it might have been a few more days since the updated that actually caused it. Rgds. Ola Thoresen -- _,--', _._.--._____ .--.--';_'-.', ";_ _.,-' Ola Thoresen .'--'. _.' {`'-;_ .-.>.' '-:_ ) / `' '=. It is easier to fix Unix ) > {_/, /~) than to live with Windows |/ `^ .' From mike at miketc.com Fri Jan 26 16:03:56 2007 From: mike at miketc.com (Mike Chambers) Date: Fri, 26 Jan 2007 10:03:56 -0600 Subject: Want to help QA the Test1 release? In-Reply-To: <45BA2355.3060102@olen.net> References: <200701251619.56694.jkeating@redhat.com> <200701251637.41135.jkeating@redhat.com> <1169820945.16741.3.camel@scrappy.miketc.com> <200701261022.08488.jkeating@redhat.com> <45BA2355.3060102@olen.net> Message-ID: <1169827436.3601.4.camel@scrappy.miketc.com> On Fri, 2007-01-26 at 16:50 +0100, Ola Thoresen wrote: > Jesse Keating wrote: > > On Friday 26 January 2007 09:15, Mike Chambers wrote: > >> I had been having problems trying to do a rawhide install via NFS, > >> although it was against the rawhide tree, not against an ISO (yes was > >> using boot.iso). Is this allowed still or do you have to do it against > >> an ISO image unless it's via ftp/http? Actually I had problems doing it > >> against ftp/http as well (as in, "can't be mounted from the server"). > >> Although I could download all the FC6 ISO's to the same mounted dir > >> (diff sub dir) and install from them. So I am confused on what used to > >> work, doesn't now? > > > > I'm not ruling out NFS issues in the kernel preventing NFS installs, I don't > > recall having tried that much recently, but I will try today. We haven't > > changed what we "support" in that aspect, it would be something lower level > > breaking. > > > > > I have had some problems with NFS lately. > Have not had the time to debug it properly, so I have no bugzilla entry. > Seems like a locking problem, so I changed my fstab to mount the > NFS-shares "nolock", and that seemed to fix the problem. > > This is 2 rawhide clients (both x86_64 and i386) mounting an Fedora 5 > server. > It started about one week ago, but I don't update and reboot the > rawhide-clients daily, so it might have been a few more days since the > updated that actually caused it. Well, as far as mounting nfs partitions, that is no problem. I run one PIV system as rawhide client, that mounts 2 NFS dir's from an FC6 server. That is fine, and even installing from FC6 iso's (via nfs) on that same dir is fine. But I mirror rawhide (from a mirror) and when trying to do an install against the nfs rawhide tree (not iso's), it doesn't work. I guess maybe the question should be is the tree installable, or do you have to currently use iso's for some reason. -- Mike Chambers Madisonville, KY "Sex is like air, it's not important unless your not getting any!" From jwilliam at xmission.com Fri Jan 26 16:04:13 2007 From: jwilliam at xmission.com (Jerry Williams) Date: Fri, 26 Jan 2007 09:04:13 -0700 Subject: Want to help QA the Test1 release? In-Reply-To: <45BA2355.3060102@olen.net> References: <200701251619.56694.jkeating@redhat.com> <200701251637.41135.jkeating@redhat.com> <1169820945.16741.3.camel@scrappy.miketc.com><200701261022.08488.jkeating@redhat.com> <45BA2355.3060102@olen.net> Message-ID: <002801c74163$9f6320b0$020aa8c0@a18> > -----Original Message----- > From: fedora-devel-list-bounces at redhat.com [mailto:fedora-devel-list- > bounces at redhat.com] On Behalf Of Ola Thoresen > Sent: Friday, January 26, 2007 8:51 AM > To: Development discussions related to Fedora Core > Subject: Re: Want to help QA the Test1 release? > > Jesse Keating wrote: > > On Friday 26 January 2007 09:15, Mike Chambers wrote: > >> I had been having problems trying to do a rawhide install via NFS, > >> although it was against the rawhide tree, not against an ISO (yes was > >> using boot.iso). Is this allowed still or do you have to do it against > >> an ISO image unless it's via ftp/http? Actually I had problems doing > it > >> against ftp/http as well (as in, "can't be mounted from the server"). > >> Although I could download all the FC6 ISO's to the same mounted dir > >> (diff sub dir) and install from them. So I am confused on what used to > >> work, doesn't now? > > > > I'm not ruling out NFS issues in the kernel preventing NFS installs, I > don't > > recall having tried that much recently, but I will try today. We > haven't > > changed what we "support" in that aspect, it would be something lower > level > > breaking. > > > > > I have had some problems with NFS lately. > Have not had the time to debug it properly, so I have no bugzilla entry. > Seems like a locking problem, so I changed my fstab to mount the > NFS-shares "nolock", and that seemed to fix the problem. > > This is 2 rawhide clients (both x86_64 and i386) mounting an Fedora 5 > server. > It started about one week ago, but I don't update and reboot the > rawhide-clients daily, so it might have been a few more days since the > updated that actually caused it. > > > Rgds. > > Ola Thoresen I haven't seen any problems with this. I am exporting readonly from FC6 i386 all around. I did see something strange using T30 laptop started ftp install, boot from pxe. I started it last night and then in the morning it still said 2 min left. Screen still lit up. Touched the touch pad and pushed a few keys and then in a few minutes it finished. Default install takes about 35 minutes. That is from boot to reboot, not counting firstboot. From jcm at redhat.com Fri Jan 26 17:21:19 2007 From: jcm at redhat.com (Jon Masters) Date: Fri, 26 Jan 2007 12:21:19 -0500 Subject: Want to help QA the Test1 release? In-Reply-To: <707673.32185.qm@web56913.mail.re3.yahoo.com> References: <707673.32185.qm@web56913.mail.re3.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <1169832079.20419.18.camel@jcm.boston.redhat.com> On Thu, 2007-01-25 at 15:07 -0800, Jane Dogalt wrote: > --- Jon Masters wrote: > > > Jesse Keating wrote: > > > On Thursday 25 January 2007 17:38, Jane Dogalt wrote: > > >> I guess I should go read the rest of that thread to figure out > > where > > >> the work remains to get a pungi/mock build that doesn't require > > any > > >> root priveleges... > > > > > > A way for users to create and mount loopback filesystems for the > > anaconda > > > stage1/2 images. > > > > A horrible FUSE hack or nasty LD_PRELOAD wrapper come to mind... > > Nah... at least for now, fuse still requires root to put you in the > fuse group. Problem solved though, see my other post :) But you only need to add yourself to a group once... Jon. From jwilliam at xmission.com Fri Jan 26 18:13:15 2007 From: jwilliam at xmission.com (Jerry Williams) Date: Fri, 26 Jan 2007 11:13:15 -0700 Subject: Please put pxelinux.0 in /images/pxeboot/ Message-ID: <000001c74175$a6429930$020aa8c0@a18> Could someone please add pxelinux.0 to /images/pxeboot/? I am not sure how often it changes, but it is kind of a pain to get it out of syslinux. Is pxelinux.0 a generic thing or does it have to match everything else? Also is there a reason that stage2.img couldn't just be loaded from the tftp server in the first place instead of having to use NFS, ftp, or http? Especially if you are just doing a rescue? From katzj at redhat.com Fri Jan 26 19:12:35 2007 From: katzj at redhat.com (Jeremy Katz) Date: Fri, 26 Jan 2007 14:12:35 -0500 Subject: Please put pxelinux.0 in /images/pxeboot/ In-Reply-To: <000001c74175$a6429930$020aa8c0@a18> References: <000001c74175$a6429930$020aa8c0@a18> Message-ID: <1169838755.7465.14.camel@aglarond.local> On Fri, 2007-01-26 at 11:13 -0700, Jerry Williams wrote: > Could someone please add pxelinux.0 to /images/pxeboot/? > > I am not sure how often it changes, but it is kind of a pain to get it out > of syslinux. > > Is pxelinux.0 a generic thing or does it have to match everything else? It's just in the syslinux package and thus changes as often as syslinux. Sticking it in the dir doesn't make much sense as we don't put, eg, a tftp server there. Or anything else along those lines. > Also is there a reason that stage2.img couldn't just be loaded from the tftp > server in the first place instead of having to use NFS, ftp, or http? > > Especially if you are just doing a rescue? 70 megs is a lot to download via tftp. Plus, it then has to be in memory which isn't the case for NFS Jeremy From drago01 at gmail.com Fri Jan 26 19:34:34 2007 From: drago01 at gmail.com (dragoran) Date: Fri, 26 Jan 2007 20:34:34 +0100 Subject: Compiz vs. OpenGL using programs In-Reply-To: <45B8FE04.3080002@redhat.com> References: <20070125152022.4fd493d9@banea.int.addix.net> <45B8FE04.3080002@redhat.com> Message-ID: <45BA57CA.7080508@gmail.com> Kristian H?gsberg wrote: > Ralf Ertzinger wrote: >> Hi. >> >> Before I start filing bugs: is it expected that using compiz while >> running >> applications that use OpenGL themselves results in funny display >> programs? >> >> Or is this supposed to work and not doing so is a driver bug? > > This is a known bug, but it requires significant changes in the > underlying rendering stack to fix it. It's not a per driver thing, > direct rendering stack currently doesn't work with composite. I think > compiz will unredirect fullscreen OpenGL windows, so fullscreen games > and the like should work. > the problem is that input seems broken: https://bugs.freedesktop.org/show_bug.cgi?id=9474 > Things are slowly starting to fall into place to allow us to fix this > problem, but for now, the fix is to either go back to a non-composited > desktop, or live with the rendering artifatcs. > > cheers, > Kristian > From jarod at wilsonet.com Fri Jan 26 19:44:48 2007 From: jarod at wilsonet.com (Jarod Wilson) Date: Fri, 26 Jan 2007 14:44:48 -0500 Subject: Want to help QA the Test1 release? In-Reply-To: References: <200701251619.56694.jkeating@redhat.com> Message-ID: <01E7CB91-CD58-4A04-9D4C-10C4D47FF9F9@wilsonet.com> On Jan 26, 2007, at 10:21 AM, Jarod Wilson wrote: > On Jan 25, 2007, at 4:19 PM, Jesse Keating wrote: > >> We could really use it (: I need to have a tree handed off by >> tomorrow in >> order to meet the Tuesday release deadline. >> >> http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/QA/7/Test1TreeTesting >> >> Start there and let us know! We'll try to fill in the found bugs >> as we find >> them, or the common known issues. Given that this is Test1, its >> going to be >> a little rough. > > Hey, cool, yesterday's rawhide installer can't find the PATA hard > drive in either of my nForce2 systems... (yay for libata! :) > > /me will play w/one of the boxes more a bit later today... Booting last night's rawhide tree w/noprobe and manually selecting to load pata_amd leads to accessible hard drives. --jarod From eswierk at arastra.com Sat Jan 27 00:07:06 2007 From: eswierk at arastra.com (Ed Swierk) Date: Fri, 26 Jan 2007 16:07:06 -0800 Subject: Please put pxelinux.0 in /images/pxeboot/ In-Reply-To: <1169838755.7465.14.camel@aglarond.local> References: <000001c74175$a6429930$020aa8c0@a18> <1169838755.7465.14.camel@aglarond.local> Message-ID: On 1/26/07, Jeremy Katz wrote: > 70 megs is a lot to download via tftp. Plus, it then has to be in > memory which isn't the case for NFS Sure, but in many cases 70 MB is not a big deal, and it would be nice to have the option. Not that I'm voluteering to figure out how to merge stage2 into the initrd... --Ed From ndbecker2 at gmail.com Sat Jan 27 00:18:43 2007 From: ndbecker2 at gmail.com (Neal Becker) Date: Fri, 26 Jan 2007 19:18:43 -0500 Subject: nscd missing from bugzilla Message-ID: There is no entry for nscd in bugzilla. Here is the bug: /sbin/service nscd status nscd dead but subsys locked sudo /sbin/service nscd status nscd (pid 3523) is running... From mschwendt.tmp0701.nospam at arcor.de Sat Jan 27 00:28:54 2007 From: mschwendt.tmp0701.nospam at arcor.de (Michael Schwendt) Date: Sat, 27 Jan 2007 01:28:54 +0100 Subject: nscd missing from bugzilla In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <20070127012854.205bd4eb.mschwendt.tmp0701.nospam@arcor.de> On Fri, 26 Jan 2007 19:18:43 -0500, Neal Becker wrote: > There is no entry for nscd in bugzilla. It belongs to the "glibc" source RPM. Query the package and look out for the "Source RPM" field: rpm --query nscd Bugzilla components are based on the source RPM names. From miles.lane at gmail.com Sat Jan 27 00:27:38 2007 From: miles.lane at gmail.com (Miles Lane) Date: Fri, 26 Jan 2007 16:27:38 -0800 Subject: Any plans to add support for new features of laptops targeting Vista? In-Reply-To: References: <20070125134843.GA22278@redhat.com> <1169734638.3867.11.camel@lt21223.campus.dmacc.edu> <20070125151727.GC22278@redhat.com> Message-ID: Is this something that would be better for me to explore on the Linux Kernel Mailing List? I am not sure whether this requires user mode changes as well as changes in the kernel. Thanks, Miles On 1/25/07, Miles Lane wrote: > Here's what I can locate: > > http://www.t13.org/ > http://download.microsoft.com/download/9/c/5/9c5b2167-8017-4bae-9fde-d599bac8184a/perfaccel.doc > mms://wm.microsoft.com/ms/evnet/ReadyDrive_s_ch9.wmv > http://msdn2.microsoft.com/en-us/library/aa907462.aspx > http://www.google.com/url?sa=t&ct=res&cd=2&url=http%3A%2F%2Fdownload.microsoft.com%2Fdownload%2F5%2Fb%2F9%2F5b97017b-e28a-4bae-ba48-174cf47d23cd%2FCPA131_WH06.ppt&ei=8Eu5RcWcC42ajgGJ87mJBA&usg=__-UY47_D4_N11pRKP7y1QMRVvI0o=&sig2=SQPciwF3WmJ6Ys7yowIdwA > http://www.google.com/url?sa=t&ct=res&cd=3&url=http%3A%2F%2Fdownload.microsoft.com%2Fdownload%2F9%2Fc%2F5%2F9c5b2167-8017-4bae-9fde-d599bac8184a%2Fperfaccel.doc&ei=8Eu5RcWcC42ajgGJ87mJBA&usg=__DWT_2xL3Rwk2Ei9ya_SzEu1AlPc=&sig2=qFKrB8aO0YLnIbOQ9WclGQ > http://news.zdnet.co.uk/hardware/0,1000000091,39269295,00.htm > http://download.microsoft.com/download/5/b/9/5b97017b-e28a-4bae-ba48-174cf47d23cd/STO008_WH06.ppt > http://www.theinquirer.net/default.aspx?article=32718 > "No mention of support for other OSes (read: Linux) has been > forthcoming from any manufacturer ? unsurprisingly as this is a > Microsoft initiative ? and it looks like there will be some wait for > any third-party drivers that take full advantage of the cache." > > http://sudrien.net/technical/hybrid-disk-drives-part-2 > http://www.codinghorror.com/blog/archives/000680.html > http://www.codinghorror.com/mtype/mt-comments-renamed.cgi?entry_id=680 > http://www.intel.com/technology/magazine/archive/tim1206.pdf: > "Overcoming Disk Drive Access Bottlenecks with Intel(r) Robson Technology" > From jwilliam at xmission.com Sat Jan 27 04:11:54 2007 From: jwilliam at xmission.com (Jerry Williams) Date: Fri, 26 Jan 2007 21:11:54 -0700 Subject: Please put pxelinux.0 in /images/pxeboot/ In-Reply-To: <1169838755.7465.14.camel@aglarond.local> References: <000001c74175$a6429930$020aa8c0@a18> <1169838755.7465.14.camel@aglarond.local> Message-ID: <001301c741c9$473e5dd0$020aa8c0@a18> > -----Original Message----- > On Fri, 2007-01-26 at 11:13 -0700, Jerry Williams wrote: > > Could someone please add pxelinux.0 to /images/pxeboot/? > > > > I am not sure how often it changes, but it is kind of a pain to get it > out > > of syslinux. > > > > Is pxelinux.0 a generic thing or does it have to match everything else? > > It's just in the syslinux package and thus changes as often as syslinux. > Sticking it in the dir doesn't make much sense as we don't put, eg, a > tftp server there. Or anything else along those lines. But you do need all 3 files vmlinuz, initrd.img, & pxelinux.0 The vmlinuz & initrd.img aren't any good without pxelinux.0. Or am I not understanding something? It's just kind of a pain to run: rpm2cpio syslinux-3.31-2.i386.rpm |cpio -iv --make-directories ./usr/lib/syslinux/pxelinux.0 Why don't you just make people do mount -o loop boot.iso /media and copy off vmlinuz and initrd.img then? Why have pxeboot? > > > Also is there a reason that stage2.img couldn't just be loaded from the > tftp > > server in the first place instead of having to use NFS, ftp, or http? > > > > Especially if you are just doing a rescue? > > 70 megs is a lot to download via tftp. Plus, it then has to be in > memory which isn't the case for NFS > > Jeremy I didn't realize that tftp put everything into memory. Sounds like a good reason to me to not do that. Thanks! From cmadams at hiwaay.net Sat Jan 27 05:29:05 2007 From: cmadams at hiwaay.net (Chris Adams) Date: Fri, 26 Jan 2007 23:29:05 -0600 Subject: Please put pxelinux.0 in /images/pxeboot/ In-Reply-To: <001301c741c9$473e5dd0$020aa8c0@a18> References: <000001c74175$a6429930$020aa8c0@a18> <1169838755.7465.14.camel@aglarond.local> <001301c741c9$473e5dd0$020aa8c0@a18> Message-ID: <20070127052905.GA1164434@hiwaay.net> Once upon a time, Jerry Williams said: > But you do need all 3 files vmlinuz, initrd.img, & pxelinux.0 > The vmlinuz & initrd.img aren't any good without pxelinux.0. And pxelinux.0 isn't any good without a TFTP server and a pxelinux.cfg directory with proper config file(s). However, one pxelinux.0 is all you need, while you may have many vmlinuz and initrd.img pairs booting. I can boot RHEL 3, RHEL 4, FC 6, and rawhide (all i386 or x86_64) from my boot server; I only need one pxelinux.0 for that (and I use the most up to date version, not the one that came with RHEL 3). The vmlinuz and initrd.img are a matched pair; any pxelinux.0 (that works with your client computer) will work to boot them. If it would only boot with the matched pxelinux.0, there'd be reason to include it. > It's just kind of a pain to run: > rpm2cpio syslinux-3.31-2.i386.rpm |cpio -iv --make-directories > ./usr/lib/syslinux/pxelinux.0 You run it one time and then you have it, while you may replace/add vmlinuz and initrd.img regularly. It doesn't need to be bundled. -- Chris Adams Systems and Network Administrator - HiWAAY Internet Services I don't speak for anybody but myself - that's enough trouble. From jwilliam at xmission.com Sat Jan 27 07:18:54 2007 From: jwilliam at xmission.com (Jerry Williams) Date: Sat, 27 Jan 2007 00:18:54 -0700 Subject: Please put pxelinux.0 in /images/pxeboot/ In-Reply-To: <20070127052905.GA1164434@hiwaay.net> References: <000001c74175$a6429930$020aa8c0@a18><1169838755.7465.14.camel@aglarond.local><001301c741c9$473e5dd0$020aa8c0@a18> <20070127052905.GA1164434@hiwaay.net> Message-ID: <000001c741e3$674e6100$020aa8c0@a18> > However, one pxelinux.0 is all you need, while you may have many vmlinuz > and initrd.img pairs booting. I can boot RHEL 3, RHEL 4, FC 6, and > rawhide (all i386 or x86_64) from my boot server; I only need one > pxelinux.0 for that (and I use the most up to date version, not the one > that came with RHEL 3). > > The vmlinuz and initrd.img are a matched pair; any pxelinux.0 (that > works with your client computer) will work to boot them. If it would > only boot with the matched pxelinux.0, there'd be reason to include it. That is kind of what I wanted to know, just didn't ask the question very well. Doesn't sound like pxelinux.0 changes a whole lot. So I am okay with how things are now. Thanks for the clarification! > > > It's just kind of a pain to run: > > rpm2cpio syslinux-3.31-2.i386.rpm |cpio -iv --make-directories > > ./usr/lib/syslinux/pxelinux.0 > > You run it one time and then you have it, while you may replace/add > vmlinuz and initrd.img regularly. It doesn't need to be bundled. > > -- > Chris Adams > Systems and Network Administrator - HiWAAY Internet Services > I don't speak for anybody but myself - that's enough trouble. From buildsys at redhat.com Sat Jan 27 11:15:23 2007 From: buildsys at redhat.com (buildsys at redhat.com) Date: Sat, 27 Jan 2007 06:15:23 -0500 Subject: rawhide report: 20070127 changes Message-ID: <200701271115.l0RBFN7g013184@hs20-bc2-6.build.redhat.com> Updated Packages: anaconda-11.2.0.18-2 -------------------- * Fri Jan 26 2007 Jeremy Katz - 11.2.0.18-2 - rebuild against older pciutils * Fri Jan 26 2007 Jeremy Katz - 11.2.0.18-1 - Fix pkgorder - Give indication of city being pointed at for timezone (clumens, #219417) emacs-22.0.93-5.fc7 ------------------- * Fri Jan 26 2007 Chip Coldwell - 22.0.93-5 - remove Tetris to avoid trademark problems (Ville Skytt?? #224627) * Thu Jan 25 2007 Chip Coldwell - 22.0.93-4 - fixup loaddefs.el dependencies (Dan Nicolaescu #176171) - add BuildRequires: automake (changes to Makefile.in) fedora-release-6.90-2 --------------------- * Fri Jan 26 2007 Jesse Keating - 6.90-2 - Core? What Core? kernel-2.6.19-1.2914.fc7 ------------------------ * Fri Jan 26 2007 Bill Nottingham - turn on CONFIG_SYSFS_DEPRECATED so that things actually work. *sigh* python-virtinst-0.100.0-3.fc7 ----------------------------- * Thu Jan 25 2007 Daniel P. Berrange - 0.100.0-3.fc7 - Make back-compat with old APIs for Cobbler sanity * Thu Jan 25 2007 Daniel P. Berrange - 0.100.0-2.fc7 - Fix errors with NFS mount based installs selinux-policy-2.5.2-2.fc7 -------------------------- * Thu Jan 25 2007 Dan Walsh 2.5.2-2 - Fix squid cachemgr labeling * Thu Jan 25 2007 Dan Walsh 2.5.2-1 - Add ability to generate webadm_t policy - Lots of new interfaces for httpd - Allow sshd to login as unconfined_t Broken deps for s390 ---------------------------------------------------------- systemtap - 0.5.10-1.fc7.s390 requires kernel >= 0:2.6.9-11 systemtap-runtime - 0.5.10-1.fc7.s390 requires kernel >= 0:2.6.9-11 From jkeating at redhat.com Sat Jan 27 15:50:47 2007 From: jkeating at redhat.com (Jesse Keating) Date: Sat, 27 Jan 2007 10:50:47 -0500 Subject: rawhide report: 20070127 changes In-Reply-To: <200701271115.l0RBFN7g013184@hs20-bc2-6.build.redhat.com> References: <200701271115.l0RBFN7g013184@hs20-bc2-6.build.redhat.com> Message-ID: <200701271050.50658.jkeating@redhat.com> On Saturday 27 January 2007 06:15, buildsys at redhat.com wrote: > * Fri Jan 26 2007 Jeremy Katz - 11.2.0.18-2 > - rebuild against older pciutils > > * Fri Jan 26 2007 Jeremy Katz - 11.2.0.18-1 > - Fix pkgorder > - Give indication of city being pointed at for timezone (clumens, #219417) Well, looks like we didn't quite fix pkgorder the right way, and any spins created that use split media will not work. We'll try to get it fixed for rawhide tomorrow, so those playing at home can compose again. -- Jesse Keating Release Engineer: Fedora -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 189 bytes Desc: not available URL: From cmadams at hiwaay.net Sat Jan 27 16:33:11 2007 From: cmadams at hiwaay.net (Chris Adams) Date: Sat, 27 Jan 2007 10:33:11 -0600 Subject: rawhide report: 20070127 changes In-Reply-To: <200701271115.l0RBFN7g013184@hs20-bc2-6.build.redhat.com> References: <200701271115.l0RBFN7g013184@hs20-bc2-6.build.redhat.com> Message-ID: <20070127163311.GA956217@hiwaay.net> Once upon a time, buildsys at redhat.com said: > fedora-release-6.90-2 > --------------------- > * Fri Jan 26 2007 Jesse Keating - 6.90-2 > - Core? What Core? Somebody give Jesse an apple (or maybe an Apple). -- Chris Adams Systems and Network Administrator - HiWAAY Internet Services I don't speak for anybody but myself - that's enough trouble. From daniel at hozac.com Sat Jan 27 23:18:26 2007 From: daniel at hozac.com (Daniel Hokka Zakrisson) Date: Sun, 28 Jan 2007 00:18:26 +0100 (CET) Subject: Fedora Server Spin In-Reply-To: <1168558399.21083.42.camel@localhost.localdomain> References: <1168558399.21083.42.camel@localhost.localdomain> Message-ID: <35236.192.168.101.6.1169939906.squirrel@intranet> David Lutterkort wrote: > I created an initial skeleton list of packages[1] for the Fedora Serevr > spin [2]. The list was generated by looking at all the packages ('server > packages') in current Core and Extras Rawhide that own a file > in /etc/rc.d/init.d or /etc/init.d. > ... > [1] http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Releases/FeatureFedoraServer/Packages > [2] http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Releases/FeatureFedoraServer Please exclude util-vserver-legacy, and add util-vserver-build instead. The legacy package is, well, legacy cruft which shouldn't be used for new installs, and the build package is far more useful. -- Daniel Hokka Zakrisson From florin at andrei.myip.org Sun Jan 28 00:04:39 2007 From: florin at andrei.myip.org (Florin Andrei) Date: Sat, 27 Jan 2007 16:04:39 -0800 Subject: /etc/init.d in the default $PATH ? Message-ID: <45BBE897.9030802@andrei.myip.org> So, what it the rationale for /etc/init.d not being in the default $PATH, for root at least? -- Florin Andrei http://florin.myip.org/ From jam at zoidtechnologies.com Sun Jan 28 00:06:56 2007 From: jam at zoidtechnologies.com (jam at zoidtechnologies.com) Date: Sat, 27 Jan 2007 19:06:56 -0500 Subject: /etc/init.d in the default $PATH ? In-Reply-To: <45BBE897.9030802@andrei.myip.org> References: <45BBE897.9030802@andrei.myip.org> Message-ID: <20070128000656.GW3639@zoidtechnologies.com> On Sat, Jan 27, 2007 at 04:04:39PM -0800, Florin Andrei wrote: > So, what it the rationale for /etc/init.d not being in the default > $PATH, for root at least? > I've never had to execute anything directly in /etc/init.d/ -- there is the "service" command that runs those files for me, at least in fedora. you can always modify $PATH by dropping a file into /etc/profile.d/ if you *really* want this sort of thing to be possible. I would not want to see it in fedora though. regards, J -- http://zoidtechnologies.com/ -- software that sucks less From rjohnson.fedora-devel-list at rjohnson.com Sun Jan 28 00:27:09 2007 From: rjohnson.fedora-devel-list at rjohnson.com (Ron Johnson) Date: Sat, 27 Jan 2007 16:27:09 -0800 Subject: /etc/init.d in the default $PATH ? In-Reply-To: <20070128000656.GW3639@zoidtechnologies.com> References: <45BBE897.9030802@andrei.myip.org> <20070128000656.GW3639@zoidtechnologies.com> Message-ID: <45BBEDDD.9000003@rjohnson.com> jam at zoidtechnologies.com wrote: > On Sat, Jan 27, 2007 at 04:04:39PM -0800, Florin Andrei wrote: > >> So, what it the rationale for /etc/init.d not being in the default >> $PATH, for root at least? > > I've never had to execute anything directly in /etc/init.d/ -- there is the > "service" command that runs those files for me, at least in fedora. you can > always modify $PATH by dropping a file into /etc/profile.d/ if you *really* > want this sort of thing to be possible. I would not want to see it in fedora > though. > I'd agree, but it does bring something else to mind. I don't modify the path on my system from the install default, but when logged in as root via 'su', /sbin is not in the path. I do see something in /etc/profile that is apparently supposed to put it in there if the EUID is zero, but it never seems to happen. I hadn't really thought about it much till now. Is that a bug? Does this happen to anyone else? It also happens when using sudo, i.e. "sudo service" gets "sudo: service: command not found", whereas "sudo /sbin/service" shows usage for service. -Ron -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From skvidal at linux.duke.edu Sun Jan 28 00:32:07 2007 From: skvidal at linux.duke.edu (seth vidal) Date: Sat, 27 Jan 2007 19:32:07 -0500 Subject: /etc/init.d in the default $PATH ? In-Reply-To: <45BBEDDD.9000003@rjohnson.com> References: <45BBE897.9030802@andrei.myip.org> <20070128000656.GW3639@zoidtechnologies.com> <45BBEDDD.9000003@rjohnson.com> Message-ID: <1169944327.2465.2.camel@cutter> On Sat, 2007-01-27 at 16:27 -0800, Ron Johnson wrote: > I don't modify the path on my system from the install default, but > when logged in as root via 'su', /sbin is not in the path. I do see > something in /etc/profile that is apparently supposed to put it in > there if the EUID is zero, but it never seems to happen. I hadn't > really thought about it much till now. Is that a bug? Does this > happen to anyone else? when you su you're not 'su -' which opens a login shell and processes bash_profile try it. su echo $PATH su - echo $PATH -sv From peter at thecodergeek.com Sun Jan 28 00:37:53 2007 From: peter at thecodergeek.com (Peter Gordon) Date: Sat, 27 Jan 2007 16:37:53 -0800 Subject: /etc/init.d in the default $PATH ? In-Reply-To: <45BBEDDD.9000003@rjohnson.com> References: <45BBE897.9030802@andrei.myip.org> <20070128000656.GW3639@zoidtechnologies.com> <45BBEDDD.9000003@rjohnson.com> Message-ID: <1169944673.17152.3.camel@localhost> On Sat, 2007-01-27 at 16:27 -0800, Ron Johnson wrote: > I don't modify the path on my system from the install default, but > when logged in as root via 'su', /sbin is not in the path. I do see > something in /etc/profile that is apparently supposed to put it in > there if the EUID is zero, but it never seems to happen. I hadn't > really thought about it much till now. Is that a bug? Does this > happen to anyone else? > > It also happens when using sudo, i.e. "sudo service" gets "sudo: > service: command not found", whereas "sudo /sbin/service" shows usage > for service. Both su and sudo only change your effective user ID to that of the root user (in essence giving you root permissions to files/directories/etc.), but your environment (PATH, HOME, TMPDIR, etc.) all remain untouched. If you want to gain a full login shell as the root user (including your own environment and running root's login scripts), you need to use 'su -'. -- Peter Gordon (codergeek42) / FSF Associate Member #5015 GnuPG Public Key ID: 0xFFC19479 / Fingerprint: DD68 A414 56BD 6368 D957 9666 4268 CB7A FFC1 9479 Blog: http://thecodergeek.com/blog/ About: http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/PeterGordon -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: signature.asc Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 189 bytes Desc: This is a digitally signed message part URL: From rjohnson.fedora-devel-list at rjohnson.com Sun Jan 28 01:18:54 2007 From: rjohnson.fedora-devel-list at rjohnson.com (Ron Johnson) Date: Sat, 27 Jan 2007 17:18:54 -0800 Subject: /etc/init.d in the default $PATH ? In-Reply-To: <1169944327.2465.2.camel@cutter> References: <45BBE897.9030802@andrei.myip.org> <20070128000656.GW3639@zoidtechnologies.com> <45BBEDDD.9000003@rjohnson.com> <1169944327.2465.2.camel@cutter> Message-ID: <45BBF9FE.3000909@rjohnson.com> seth vidal wrote: > when you su you're not 'su -' which opens a login shell and processes > bash_profile > Interesting. Odd. I hadn't really looked into it much before. Something about that seems out of place, but I can't put my finger on it. Thanks. From vonbrand at inf.utfsm.cl Sun Jan 28 00:31:11 2007 From: vonbrand at inf.utfsm.cl (Horst H. von Brand) Date: Sat, 27 Jan 2007 21:31:11 -0300 Subject: /etc/init.d in the default $PATH ? In-Reply-To: <45BBE897.9030802@andrei.myip.org> References: <45BBE897.9030802@andrei.myip.org> Message-ID: <200701280031.l0S0VBQF019737@laptop13.inf.utfsm.cl> Florin Andrei wrote: > So, what it the rationale for /etc/init.d not being in the default > $PATH, for root at least? That those can't be considered "programs for normal use" by any stretch of the imagination... -- Dr. Horst H. von Brand User #22616 counter.li.org Departamento de Informatica Fono: +56 32 2654431 Universidad Tecnica Federico Santa Maria +56 32 2654239 Casilla 110-V, Valparaiso, Chile Fax: +56 32 2797513 From cmadams at hiwaay.net Sun Jan 28 03:16:44 2007 From: cmadams at hiwaay.net (Chris Adams) Date: Sat, 27 Jan 2007 21:16:44 -0600 Subject: /etc/init.d in the default $PATH ? In-Reply-To: <1169944673.17152.3.camel@localhost> References: <45BBE897.9030802@andrei.myip.org> <20070128000656.GW3639@zoidtechnologies.com> <45BBEDDD.9000003@rjohnson.com> <1169944673.17152.3.camel@localhost> Message-ID: <20070128031644.GA1153195@hiwaay.net> Once upon a time, Peter Gordon said: > Both su and sudo only change your effective user ID to that of the root > user (in essence giving you root permissions to files/directories/etc.), > but your environment (PATH, HOME, TMPDIR, etc.) all remain untouched. If > you want to gain a full login shell as the root user (including your own > environment and running root's login scripts), you need to use 'su -'. The annoying thing about that is that "su -" also changes your current working directory. If you are in a directory and need to do something to a file as root, you either "su" (and possible have to set your PATH or explicitly call /usr/sbin/xyzzy) or you "su -" and hunt down the directory again. Personally, I drop an extra script in /etc/profile.d that (among other things) adds /usr/local/sbin:/usr/sbin:/sbin to the PATH of all users. It doesn't really hurt anything. -- Chris Adams Systems and Network Administrator - HiWAAY Internet Services I don't speak for anybody but myself - that's enough trouble. From mmcgrath at fedoraproject.org Sun Jan 28 04:10:56 2007 From: mmcgrath at fedoraproject.org (Mike McGrath) Date: Sat, 27 Jan 2007 22:10:56 -0600 Subject: /etc/init.d in the default $PATH ? In-Reply-To: <45BBE897.9030802@andrei.myip.org> References: <45BBE897.9030802@andrei.myip.org> Message-ID: <3237e4410701272010t775b7bc4waaea080f3c37a24@mail.gmail.com> On 1/27/07, Florin Andrei wrote: > So, what it the rationale for /etc/init.d not being in the default > $PATH, for root at least? because "/sbin/service" is... -Mike From jwilliam at xmission.com Sun Jan 28 04:41:48 2007 From: jwilliam at xmission.com (Jerry Williams) Date: Sat, 27 Jan 2007 21:41:48 -0700 Subject: Install about 12 min quicker today Message-ID: <001301c74296$9f603b00$020aa8c0@a18> The install is about 12 min. quicker today for the default install. Using pxe boot and NFS. And I can now ssh into the box from a remote machine. :) Thanks! Other things like Take Screenshot are still broken. What is that chance to swap a couple of screens? So when you are at the screen that lets you select the packages and you click next that it just takes you to the next screen that tells you about the log in /root. Then when you click next it would do the dependency check and if no errors just continue the install. Also is there a reason that all the keys just don't get imported? I keep getting the guetenprint update and it asks for the RPM-GPG-KEY-fedora-extras key to be imported. Then again maybe this key should go away, since extras is. Jerry From florin at andrei.myip.org Sun Jan 28 05:09:38 2007 From: florin at andrei.myip.org (Florin Andrei) Date: Sat, 27 Jan 2007 21:09:38 -0800 Subject: /etc/init.d in the default $PATH ? In-Reply-To: <3237e4410701272010t775b7bc4waaea080f3c37a24@mail.gmail.com> References: <45BBE897.9030802@andrei.myip.org> <3237e4410701272010t775b7bc4waaea080f3c37a24@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <45BC3012.2070201@andrei.myip.org> Mike McGrath wrote: > On 1/27/07, Florin Andrei wrote: >> So, what it the rationale for /etc/init.d not being in the default >> $PATH, for root at least? > > because "/sbin/service" is... I know what you mean, but TAB completion doesn't work on the service name when using /sbin/service -- Florin Andrei http://florin.myip.org/ From jeff at ocjtech.us Sun Jan 28 05:23:01 2007 From: jeff at ocjtech.us (Jeffrey C. Ollie) Date: Sat, 27 Jan 2007 23:23:01 -0600 Subject: /etc/init.d in the default $PATH ? In-Reply-To: <45BC3012.2070201@andrei.myip.org> References: <45BBE897.9030802@andrei.myip.org> <3237e4410701272010t775b7bc4waaea080f3c37a24@mail.gmail.com> <45BC3012.2070201@andrei.myip.org> Message-ID: <1169961781.3625.30.camel@lt21223.campus.dmacc.edu> On Sat, 2007-01-27 at 21:09 -0800, Florin Andrei wrote: > Mike McGrath wrote: > > On 1/27/07, Florin Andrei wrote: > >> So, what it the rationale for /etc/init.d not being in the default > >> $PATH, for root at least? > > > > because "/sbin/service" is... > > I know what you mean, but TAB completion doesn't work on the service > name when using /sbin/service One problem is that many of the init scripts have names that conflict with programs on the path. For example, if you type "sshd", are you running the binary in /usr/sbin or are you running the init script in /etc/init.d? There are numerous other examples. As far as TAB completion goes, take a look at bash-completion in Extras. Jeff -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: signature.asc Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 189 bytes Desc: This is a digitally signed message part URL: From jkeating at redhat.com Sun Jan 28 05:28:19 2007 From: jkeating at redhat.com (Jesse Keating) Date: Sun, 28 Jan 2007 00:28:19 -0500 Subject: Install about 12 min quicker today In-Reply-To: <001301c74296$9f603b00$020aa8c0@a18> References: <001301c74296$9f603b00$020aa8c0@a18> Message-ID: <200701280028.24042.jkeating@redhat.com> On Saturday 27 January 2007 23:41, Jerry Williams wrote: > Also is there a reason that all the keys just don't get imported? > I keep getting the guetenprint update and it asks for the > RPM-GPG-KEY-fedora-extras key to be imported. ? Because it is up to you to verify that the key provided on media is the right key. If we automatically import it for you, whats the point of the key? -- Jesse Keating Release Engineer: Fedora -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 189 bytes Desc: not available URL: From florin at andrei.myip.org Sun Jan 28 06:42:24 2007 From: florin at andrei.myip.org (Florin Andrei) Date: Sat, 27 Jan 2007 22:42:24 -0800 Subject: /etc/init.d in the default $PATH ? In-Reply-To: <1169961781.3625.30.camel@lt21223.campus.dmacc.edu> References: <45BBE897.9030802@andrei.myip.org> <3237e4410701272010t775b7bc4waaea080f3c37a24@mail.gmail.com> <45BC3012.2070201@andrei.myip.org> <1169961781.3625.30.camel@lt21223.campus.dmacc.edu> Message-ID: <45BC45D0.7070003@andrei.myip.org> Jeffrey C. Ollie wrote: > > One problem is that many of the init scripts have names that conflict > with programs on the path. For example, if you type "sshd", are you > running the binary in /usr/sbin or are you running the init script > in /etc/init.d? There are numerous other examples. That's a pretty good reason. I agree. -- Florin Andrei http://florin.myip.org/ From jdogalt at yahoo.com Sun Jan 28 07:12:19 2007 From: jdogalt at yahoo.com (Jane Dogalt) Date: Sat, 27 Jan 2007 23:12:19 -0800 (PST) Subject: Any plans to add support for new features of laptops targeting Vista? In-Reply-To: <20070125151515.GB22278@redhat.com> Message-ID: <972329.48173.qm@web56902.mail.re3.yahoo.com> --- "John W. Linville" wrote: > On Thu, Jan 25, 2007 at 08:13:37AM -0600, Josh Boyer wrote: > > On Thu, 2007-01-25 at 08:48 -0500, John W. Linville wrote: > > > > Anyone have more technical information? I wonder how much the > vendors > > > are allowed to share with us? > > > > I recommend exercising caution and doing your homework when > thinking > > about implementing these things. > > Perhaps my request for more information seemed unclear? Some information I can add, which really is on the throwing caution to the wind side of things (read: unionfs (dm equiv???)), is this feature outline I brought up in the livecd arena long ago (and am only now remotely close to testing), which could easily be adapted from the cd to the flash+hd arena- early boot file seperation- One of the better complaints I've heard about particular livecds is that they 'sound like a bag of nails' while booting. I.e. seek thrashing. One way to get around that, is I believe the accelrated knoppix cloop profiler solution from some folks in japan. An alternate way to get similar benefits might be achieved thusly- - when creating a livecd, do a test boot, tracking all files accessed by the time gdmautologin aquiesses. To be thorough, you would need to post process this and tag with classes, and make sure other files in the same class get included (i.e. some driver autoloads under your test boot in qemu, and you need to make sure that alternate drivers get added to the list). - then, seperate these files into a seperate filesystem image on the livecd. For an extra 3%(?), use mkisofs sort to put these on the outtermost part of the disc. Now, when booting, use a unionfs of these two filesystems, and you will (it seems in my theory) drastically reduce seeking. You may also choose to simply load the entire early-boot-filesystem intoa ramdisk in a single long read. With the latter, you might even be able to pull the old broken raid mirror trick to discard the ramdisk copy freeing up ram post-boot. ( yeah, very similar stuff to readahead. Let me know if I'm not grasping some existing functionality of readahead ) - Now, in the flash memory accelerator scenario, you can easily take this style boot sequence, and store your early boot files in flash. Thus if the user dedicates some attached fast flash to the system, they can utilize the performance benefits(?). Anybody agree/disagree that this approach would be useful? -dmc/jdog ____________________________________________________________________________________ TV dinner still cooling? Check out "Tonight's Picks" on Yahoo! TV. http://tv.yahoo.com/ From jerone at gmail.com Sun Jan 28 08:57:57 2007 From: jerone at gmail.com (Jerone Young) Date: Sun, 28 Jan 2007 02:57:57 -0600 Subject: Inclusion of Grub 2 in FC7 ? In-Reply-To: <9f50a7a00701222058p6b7c940bp5b1ab7f107b2b55c@mail.gmail.com> References: <9f50a7a00701201547t50b2a758ocf77343515fa71e9@mail.gmail.com> <9f50a7a00701201904v1631647ai5e1f20e370048573@mail.gmail.com> <1169480456.27691.11.camel@aglarond.local> <200701221055.11756.jkeating@redhat.com> <1169489873.3020.16.camel@sb-home.lan> <9f50a7a00701221038m3533e5f5h469bdfd2f41fa69e@mail.gmail.com> <20070123042121.GA7926@wolff.to> <9f50a7a00701222058p6b7c940bp5b1ab7f107b2b55c@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <9f50a7a00701280057q22746edbrb05e751baad15f31@mail.gmail.com> Just a small update on developments with this. I finally got some time this weekend to start to bang this out. Once I thought I had it..to my surprise commands like "grub-install" are actually shell scripts (partially generated from .in files..oh autoconf generated scripts..how nice). And they specifically look for commands like "grub-setup". So I'm going to be taking a little more time add patches to the spec files so that everything can ex. "grub2-install" or "grub2-setup" and work harmoniously. So just to let everyone know I'm still working on it :-) . Hope to have a spec and patches out by end of tuesday. On 1/22/07, Jerone Young wrote: > This shouldn't be too big of a deal using the grub2 name. Down the > road you can just make a symlink to grub2 that is named grub. > Currently I think there just needs to be a migration path to grub2. > Hopefully if it can go into FC 7 it can begin the migration. > > On 1/22/07, Bruno Wolff III wrote: > > On Mon, Jan 22, 2007 at 12:38:47 -0600, > > Jerone Young wrote: > > > I can take up this task. I'll put something together this week. Though > > > it will be interesting to figure out a way so it does not conflict > > > with current grub. This would be a good way to figure out how to get > > > them to exist side by side. > > > > I would think that using something like /boot/grub2 instead of /boot/grub > > for config files and naming the executable /sbin/grub2 instead of > > /sbin/grub would work OK. Once you do a set up with one of the grubs, > > that one will be used for booting, and there isn't a lot you can do about > > that. > > > > The disadvantage of doing this is that down the road you will probably > > want to rename grub2 as grub and there will be some pain realted to that. > > > From avi at argo.co.il Sun Jan 28 09:57:57 2007 From: avi at argo.co.il (Avi Kivity) Date: Sun, 28 Jan 2007 11:57:57 +0200 Subject: Install about 12 min quicker today In-Reply-To: <200701280028.24042.jkeating@redhat.com> References: <001301c74296$9f603b00$020aa8c0@a18> <200701280028.24042.jkeating@redhat.com> Message-ID: <45BC73A5.9080307@argo.co.il> Jesse Keating wrote: > On Saturday 27 January 2007 23:41, Jerry Williams wrote: > >> Also is there a reason that all the keys just don't get imported? >> I keep getting the guetenprint update and it asks for the >> RPM-GPG-KEY-fedora-extras key to be imported. >> > > Because it is up to you to verify that the key provided on media is the right > key. If we automatically import it for you, whats the point of the key? > If the media is untrusted, there's no point in answering any questions it asks (as it could ignore the response, or fake the key fingerprint, or install a rootkit regardless of any key). If the media is trusted, there's no point in asking the question in the first place. -- error compiling committee.c: too many arguments to function From buildsys at redhat.com Sun Jan 28 11:13:17 2007 From: buildsys at redhat.com (buildsys at redhat.com) Date: Sun, 28 Jan 2007 06:13:17 -0500 Subject: rawhide report: 20070128 changes Message-ID: <200701281113.l0SBDHNP007066@hs20-bc2-6.build.redhat.com> Updated Packages: (none) Broken deps for s390 ---------------------------------------------------------- systemtap - 0.5.10-1.fc7.s390 requires kernel >= 0:2.6.9-11 systemtap-runtime - 0.5.10-1.fc7.s390 requires kernel >= 0:2.6.9-11 From chitlesh at fedoraproject.org Sun Jan 28 11:26:37 2007 From: chitlesh at fedoraproject.org (Chitlesh GOORAH) Date: Sun, 28 Jan 2007 12:26:37 +0100 Subject: KDE4 being packaged In-Reply-To: <45B7743F.3060205@develer.com> References: <13dbfe4f0611271316p7b11f9a0k1abcd9c8df6688ab@mail.gmail.com> <45B7743F.3060205@develer.com> Message-ID: <13dbfe4f0701280326p603d9bc1n5e6d3842cdf52977@mail.gmail.com> On 1/24/07, Bernardo Innocenti wrote: > Did you make any progress on this front? Or is anybody else packaging > KDE4 for Fedora? with the latest snapshot, kdelibs4 fails on me :( kdelibs4 snapshot : 20070123 http://tux.u-strasbg.fr/~chit/k4.log I'm trying to build fedora rpms out of kde4 svn snapshots. http://tux.u-strasbg.fr/~chit/kdelibs4.spec cd /home/chitlesh/rpmbuild/BUILD/kdelibs/build/kdeui && /usr/bin/cmake -E cmake_symlink_library ../lib/libkdeui.so.5.0.0 ../lib/libkdeui.so.5 ../lib/libkdeui.so make[2]: Leaving directory `/home/chitlesh/rpmbuild/BUILD/kdelibs/build' /usr/bin/cmake -E cmake_progress_report /home/chitlesh/rpmbuild/BUILD/kdelibs/build/CMakeFiles 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 [ 25%] Built target kdeui make[1]: Leaving directory `/home/chitlesh/rpmbuild/BUILD/kdelibs/build' make: *** [all] Error 2 error: Bad exit status from /var/tmp/rpm-tmp.86372 (%build) cmake-2.4.5-2.fc6 -- http://clunixchit.blogspot.com From kodis at mail630.gsfc.nasa.gov Sun Jan 28 14:18:23 2007 From: kodis at mail630.gsfc.nasa.gov (kodis at mail630.gsfc.nasa.gov) Date: Sun, 28 Jan 2007 09:18:23 -0500 Subject: /etc/init.d in the default $PATH ? In-Reply-To: <20070128031644.GA1153195@hiwaay.net> References: <45BBE897.9030802@andrei.myip.org> <20070128000656.GW3639@zoidtechnologies.com> <45BBEDDD.9000003@rjohnson.com> <1169944673.17152.3.camel@localhost> <20070128031644.GA1153195@hiwaay.net> Message-ID: <20070128141823.GC16521@tux.gsfc.nasa.gov> On Sat, Jan 27, 2007 at 09:16:44PM -0600, Chris Adams wrote: > Personally, I drop an extra script in /etc/profile.d that (among > other things) adds /usr/local/sbin:/usr/sbin:/sbin to the PATH of > all users. It doesn't really hurt anything. I get a similar result by adding the sbin directories and my $HOME/{s,}bin directories to my .profile. This is something that I can do even when I don't administer a machine, and lets me stay closer to the stock configuration when I do. Even though this type of $PATH extension seems like a frequently requested feature that many of us have been putting in place on our own with no ill effects for years, there does seem to be some resistance to making this the default. The only two reasons that I recall for maintaining the status quo are that including sbin could confuse non-admins, and that including sbin could interfere with the operation of the consolehelper program which is used to fire off the system-config-* programs. The first objection doesn't seem very compelling, and the second seems like it could be resolved without much difficulty. -- John Kodis. From bernie at develer.com Sun Jan 28 15:13:23 2007 From: bernie at develer.com (Bernardo Innocenti) Date: Sun, 28 Jan 2007 16:13:23 +0100 Subject: State of diskless tools Message-ID: <45BCBD93.50603@develer.com> Hello Jason, I've just posted a patch to update system-config-netboot to generate initramfs images to bootstrap diskless clients: https://bugzilla.redhat.com/bugzilla/show_bug.cgi?id=204877 I noticed that for the system-config-netboot component there were several trivial bugs that have been open for several momths without any activity going on. The latest update of system-config-netboot has been on Jun 2006. Is this package still being actively maintained? And, more importantly, is RedHat still interested in pushing and supporting diskless clients in the next versions of RHEL? I'm asking because, depending on the level of support we can expect, I may have to recommend different solutions for the IT department. -- // Bernardo Innocenti - Develer S.r.l., R&D dept. \X/ http://www.develer.com/ From bernie at develer.com Sun Jan 28 15:42:03 2007 From: bernie at develer.com (Bernardo Innocenti) Date: Sun, 28 Jan 2007 16:42:03 +0100 Subject: State of diskless tools In-Reply-To: <45BCBD93.50603@develer.com> References: <45BCBD93.50603@develer.com> Message-ID: <45BCC44B.4020100@develer.com> Bernardo Innocenti wrote: > The latest update of system-config-netboot has been on > Jun 2006. Is this package still being actively maintained? I think I've got the answer I wanted: : 66.187.233.31 does not like recipient. Remote host said: 550 5.2.1 ... Mailbox disabled for this recipient Giving up on 66.187.233.31. How does one tell who's the current maintainer of a package? -- // Bernardo Innocenti - Develer S.r.l., R&D dept. \X/ http://www.develer.com/ From fedora at leemhuis.info Sun Jan 28 15:50:34 2007 From: fedora at leemhuis.info (Thorsten Leemhuis) Date: Sun, 28 Jan 2007 16:50:34 +0100 Subject: State of diskless tools In-Reply-To: <45BCC44B.4020100@develer.com> References: <45BCBD93.50603@develer.com> <45BCC44B.4020100@develer.com> Message-ID: <45BCC64A.2000807@leemhuis.info> Bernardo Innocenti schrieb: > [...] > How does one tell who's the current maintainer of a package? https://bugzilla.redhat.com/bugzilla/describecomponents.cgi?product=Fedora%20Core (you need to be logged-in to see the E-Mail addresses) CU thl From dwmw2 at infradead.org Sun Jan 28 16:16:31 2007 From: dwmw2 at infradead.org (David Woodhouse) Date: Sun, 28 Jan 2007 16:16:31 +0000 Subject: New VCS Choice; SCM SIG In-Reply-To: References: <1169160615.14225.127.camel@localhost.localdomain> <1169533624.6687.203.camel@localhost.localdomain> <1169534670.6751.39.camel@mccallum.corsepiu.local> <200701230825.59771.jkeating@redhat.com> <1169560855.6751.78.camel@mccallum.corsepiu.local> <45B63E96.2070300@redhat.com> <1169576307.6751.131.camel@mccallum.corsepiu.local> <45B65C37.5020509@redhat.com> <3237e4410701231113x1abee322m37d79f82f6cb02ed@mail.gmail.com> <45B66124.2080702@redhat.com> <3237e4410701231201v18397e8eydd3f05e822fd946a@mail.gmail.com> <1169585721.5106.24.camel@localhost.localdomain> Message-ID: <1170000991.19462.133.camel@pmac.infradead.org> On Tue, 2007-01-23 at 15:11 -0600, Jason L Tibbitts III wrote: > At the moment the one thing I can't do is push private builds through > the buildsys. Say I'm trying to debug something for a PPC user. > (Note that I haven't a PPC machine around.) Right now the only thing > I can really do is to stick an SRPM in my personal webspace and ask > them to build it. I suppose I could figure out how to create a branch > in CVS and then ask them to check it out and do "make ppc", but > frankly I haven't enough confidence in CVS that I want to attempt that > kind of thing. Mail me a SSH public key; you can have an account on a suitable box. -- dwmw2 From dwmw2 at infradead.org Sun Jan 28 16:17:42 2007 From: dwmw2 at infradead.org (David Woodhouse) Date: Sun, 28 Jan 2007 16:17:42 +0000 Subject: New VCS Choice; SCM SIG In-Reply-To: <45B6639E.10505@fedoraproject.org> References: <1169160615.14225.127.camel@localhost.localdomain> <1169533624.6687.203.camel@localhost.localdomain> <1169534670.6751.39.camel@mccallum.corsepiu.local> <200701230825.59771.jkeating@redhat.com> <1169560855.6751.78.camel@mccallum.corsepiu.local> <45B63E96.2070300@redhat.com> <1169576307.6751.131.camel@mccallum.corsepiu.local> <45B65C37.5020509@redhat.com> <3237e4410701231113x1abee322m37d79f82f6cb02ed@mail.gmail.com> <45B66124.2080702@redhat.com> <45B6639E.10505@fedoraproject.org> Message-ID: <1170001062.19462.136.camel@pmac.infradead.org> On Wed, 2007-01-24 at 01:05 +0530, Rahul Sundaram wrote: > We dont be diffusing things really. There is one single strong player in > the distributed SCM field. Xen, RPM, Pungi, OLPC and many others are > already using Mercurial. Of those, Xen is an extremely bad example of source management anyway, and all OLPC development that I'm aware of is in git. http://dev.laptop.org/git.do -- dwmw2 From jwilliam at xmission.com Sun Jan 28 17:27:35 2007 From: jwilliam at xmission.com (Jerry Williams) Date: Sun, 28 Jan 2007 10:27:35 -0700 Subject: Install about 12 min quicker today In-Reply-To: <45BC73A5.9080307@argo.co.il> References: <001301c74296$9f603b00$020aa8c0@a18><200701280028.24042.jkeating@redhat.com> <45BC73A5.9080307@argo.co.il> Message-ID: <000901c74301$9a0251a0$020aa8c0@a18> > -----Original Message----- > From: fedora-devel-list-bounces at redhat.com [mailto:fedora-devel-list- > bounces at redhat.com] On Behalf Of Avi Kivity > Sent: Sunday, January 28, 2007 2:58 AM > To: Development discussions related to Fedora Core > Subject: Re: Install about 12 min quicker today > > Jesse Keating wrote: > > On Saturday 27 January 2007 23:41, Jerry Williams wrote: > > > >> Also is there a reason that all the keys just don't get imported? > >> I keep getting the guetenprint update and it asks for the > >> RPM-GPG-KEY-fedora-extras key to be imported. > >> > > > > Because it is up to you to verify that the key provided on media is the > right > > key. If we automatically import it for you, whats the point of the key? > > > > If the media is untrusted, there's no point in answering any questions > it asks (as it could ignore the response, or fake the key fingerprint, > or install a rootkit regardless of any key). If the media is trusted, > there's no point in asking the question in the first place. > > That was kind of my thinking. And I guess I didn't say it very well. I have the original media or a mirror of it and I am doing the initial install. At that point it never asks me to install a key to do the install. But all of the keys are there. So at that point I would think since I trust the media, that all of the keys should be installed. Then when an update does come up it doesn't have to ask about a key because I already have them. And does the box that asks me if I want to install a key give me enough information to make that decision? From tibbs at math.uh.edu Sun Jan 28 17:37:16 2007 From: tibbs at math.uh.edu (Jason L Tibbitts III) Date: 28 Jan 2007 11:37:16 -0600 Subject: New VCS Choice; SCM SIG In-Reply-To: <1170000991.19462.133.camel@pmac.infradead.org> References: <1169160615.14225.127.camel@localhost.localdomain> <1169533624.6687.203.camel@localhost.localdomain> <1169534670.6751.39.camel@mccallum.corsepiu.local> <200701230825.59771.jkeating@redhat.com> <1169560855.6751.78.camel@mccallum.corsepiu.local> <45B63E96.2070300@redhat.com> <1169576307.6751.131.camel@mccallum.corsepiu.local> <45B65C37.5020509@redhat.com> <3237e4410701231113x1abee322m37d79f82f6cb02ed@mail.gmail.com> <45B66124.2080702@redhat.com> <3237e4410701231201v18397e8eydd3f05e822fd946a@mail.gmail.com> <1169585721.5106.24.camel@localhost.localdomain> <1170000991.19462.133.camel@pmac.infradead.org> Message-ID: >>>>> "DW" == David Woodhouse writes: DW> Mail me a SSH public key; you can have an account on a suitable DW> box. I'm assuming this is related to PPC-ness, not pushing test builds through the buildsys. In which case I'll thank you and keep the offer handy. That isn't a problem I have currently, and this certainly isn't a procedure I want to go through separately for sparc, ia64, etc. Besides, are you willing to give me root on said box? (Or at least the ability to run mock, which is pretty much the same thing.) - J< From dwmw2 at infradead.org Sun Jan 28 17:41:48 2007 From: dwmw2 at infradead.org (David Woodhouse) Date: Sun, 28 Jan 2007 17:41:48 +0000 Subject: New VCS Choice; SCM SIG In-Reply-To: References: <1169160615.14225.127.camel@localhost.localdomain> <1169533624.6687.203.camel@localhost.localdomain> <1169534670.6751.39.camel@mccallum.corsepiu.local> <200701230825.59771.jkeating@redhat.com> <1169560855.6751.78.camel@mccallum.corsepiu.local> <45B63E96.2070300@redhat.com> <1169576307.6751.131.camel@mccallum.corsepiu.local> <45B65C37.5020509@redhat.com> <3237e4410701231113x1abee322m37d79f82f6cb02ed@mail.gmail.com> <45B66124.2080702@redhat.com> <3237e4410701231201v18397e8eydd3f05e822fd946a@mail.gmail.com> <1169585721.5106.24.camel@localhost.localdomain> <1170000991.19462.133.camel@pmac.infradead.org> Message-ID: <1170006108.19462.143.camel@pmac.infradead.org> On Sun, 2007-01-28 at 11:37 -0600, Jason L Tibbitts III wrote: > >>>>> "DW" == David Woodhouse writes: > > DW> Mail me a SSH public key; you can have an account on a suitable > DW> box. > > I'm assuming this is related to PPC-ness, not pushing test builds > through the buildsys. In which case I'll thank you and keep the offer > handy. That isn't a problem I have currently, and this certainly > isn't a procedure I want to go through separately for sparc, ia64, > etc. True. It would be useful if there were debug boxes available for maintainers. I could do with x86_64 access occasionally, for example. > Besides, are you willing to give me root on said box? (Or at least > the ability to run mock, which is pretty much the same thing.) Mock yes, root can be arranged if you show good reason for needing it. -- dwmw2 From davej at redhat.com Sun Jan 28 18:23:08 2007 From: davej at redhat.com (Dave Jones) Date: Sun, 28 Jan 2007 13:23:08 -0500 Subject: Fedora Server Spin In-Reply-To: <45A6CED5.7000901@gmail.com> References: <1168558399.21083.42.camel@localhost.localdomain> <45A6CED5.7000901@gmail.com> Message-ID: <20070128182308.GB9081@redhat.com> On Fri, Jan 12, 2007 at 12:57:09AM +0100, Dawid Gajownik wrote: > Dnia 01/12/2007 12:33 AM, U?ytkownik David Lutterkort napisa?: > > Anybody interested in Fedora Server should have a look at the package > > list and let me know if they think a package should be classified > > differently > > > [1] http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Releases/FeatureFedoraServer/Packages > > I would put athcool in Exclude group. It's rather a hack for older AMD > processors without PowerNOW!/Cool'n'Quiet technology. > http://members.jcom.home.ne.jp/jacobi/linux/softwares.html#athcool > > Well, I use it all the time but I don't think that it's suitable for > server version. It's also proven to cause system instability on some systems, so definitly not something to consider for a default install of any class. Dave -- http://www.codemonkey.org.uk From peter at thecodergeek.com Sun Jan 28 18:57:20 2007 From: peter at thecodergeek.com (Peter Gordon) Date: Sun, 28 Jan 2007 10:57:20 -0800 Subject: /etc/init.d in the default $PATH ? In-Reply-To: <20070128141823.GC16521@tux.gsfc.nasa.gov> References: <45BBE897.9030802@andrei.myip.org> <20070128000656.GW3639@zoidtechnologies.com> <45BBEDDD.9000003@rjohnson.com> <1169944673.17152.3.camel@localhost> <20070128031644.GA1153195@hiwaay.net> <20070128141823.GC16521@tux.gsfc.nasa.gov> Message-ID: <1170010640.15049.8.camel@localhost> On Sun, 2007-01-28 at 09:18 -0500, kodis at mail630.gsfc.nasa.gov wrote: > The only two reasons that I recall for maintaining the status quo are > that including sbin could confuse non-admins, and that including sbin > could interfere with the operation of the consolehelper program which > is used to fire off the system-config-* programs. The first objection > doesn't seem very compelling, and the second seems like it could be > resolved without much difficulty. > > -- John Kodis. > Straight from the Filesystem Hierarchy Standard, version 2.3 (emphasis mine): "/sbin : System binaries Purpose Utilities used for system administration (and other *root-only* commands) are stored in /sbin, /usr/sbin, and /usr/local/sbin. /sbin contains binaries essential for booting, restoring, recovering, and/or repairing the system in addition to the binaries in /bin. [...]" The /sbin/ (and /usr/sbin, et al.) stuff is specifically meant for administrative utilities. Having it in a user's PATH makes no sense when they are not meant to use these. And, if they *are* meant to use them, then it's likely that they need at least limited root privileges, so sudo or something similar should be configured for the purpose, not merely some PATH munging. -- Peter Gordon (codergeek42) / FSF Associate Member #5015 GnuPG Public Key ID: 0xFFC19479 / Fingerprint: DD68 A414 56BD 6368 D957 9666 4268 CB7A FFC1 9479 Blog: http://thecodergeek.com/blog/ About: http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/PeterGordon -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: signature.asc Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 189 bytes Desc: This is a digitally signed message part URL: From Fedora at DalilaSoft.Ro Sun Jan 28 18:23:11 2007 From: Fedora at DalilaSoft.Ro (Traian Gheorghe ONCIU) Date: Sun, 28 Jan 2007 20:23:11 +0200 Subject: /etc/init.d in the default $PATH ? Message-ID: <00e701c74309$84a83010$6490a8c0@DalilaSoft.Ro> > So, what it the rationale for /etc/init.d not being in the default > $PATH, for root at least? > Very very bad idea. Imagine only this: look at /sbin/iptables and /etc/rc.d/init.d/iptables (or /etc/init.d/iptables, since /etc/init.d is a symlink to /etc/rc.d/init.d). You want to run iptables binary (elf) and you launch iptables service, that's call /sbin/iptables to initialize IP tables with default values (using /etc/sysconfig/iptables for all default values you need). I have also this question in the past, but I've found myself that this idea is wrong, so I create symlinks to all the service I need naming with 'rc-' before their names (/etc/rc.d/init.d/network become, as symlink, rc-network). __________________________________________________________________________________________________________________ ing. Traian Gheorghe ONCIU S.C. Dalila SoftWare SRL (Fedora at DalilaSoft.Ro) begin 666 S.C. Dalila SoftWare SRL (DalilaSoft).vcf M0D5'24XZ5D-!4D0-"E9%4E-)3TXZ,BXQ#0I..E-23" H1&%L:6QA4V]F="D[ M4RY#+CM$86QI;&$@4V]F=%=A References: <45BBE897.9030802@andrei.myip.org> <20070128000656.GW3639@zoidtechnologies.com> <45BBEDDD.9000003@rjohnson.com> <1169944673.17152.3.camel@localhost> <20070128031644.GA1153195@hiwaay.net> <20070128141823.GC16521@tux.gsfc.nasa.gov> <1170010640.15049.8.camel@localhost> Message-ID: <20070128193438.GA1479725@hiwaay.net> Once upon a time, Peter Gordon said: > The /sbin/ (and /usr/sbin, et al.) stuff is specifically meant for > administrative utilities. Having it in a user's PATH makes no sense when > they are not meant to use these. And, if they *are* meant to use them, > then it's likely that they need at least limited root privileges, so > sudo or something similar should be configured for the purpose, not > merely some PATH munging. There are a number of things in the sbin directories that are NOT root-only. They may be things that are generally only useful to system administrators, but they don't require root access. Then there are things that are designed specifically to NOT be run as root that are in sbin directories; bonnie++ for example. -- Chris Adams Systems and Network Administrator - HiWAAY Internet Services I don't speak for anybody but myself - that's enough trouble. From davej at redhat.com Sun Jan 28 19:35:50 2007 From: davej at redhat.com (Dave Jones) Date: Sun, 28 Jan 2007 14:35:50 -0500 Subject: kernel versionning problem In-Reply-To: <1169503477.4812.9.camel@bureau.maison> References: <1169502233.4812.3.camel@bureau.maison> <45B52FFE.5080307@fedoraproject.org> <1169503477.4812.9.camel@bureau.maison> Message-ID: <20070128193550.GG9081@redhat.com> On Mon, Jan 22, 2007 at 11:04:37PM +0100, Tanguy Eric wrote: > Le mardi 23 janvier 2007 ? 03:13 +0530, Rahul Sundaram a ?crit : > > Tanguy Eric wrote: > > > I sent this message to fedora-list at redhat.com but i had no reaction so i > > > try also the devel one because i find this is problem we have to solve > > > for the core and extras merge, no ? > > > > > > I'm tired to have problems with rt2500 driver at each new fedora kernel > > > release because the versionning seems to not follow standards : > > > http://rt2x00.serialmonkey.com/phpBB2/viewtopic.php?t=2965 > > > > > > What do you think about this ? > > > > > > Someone have similar problems with other modules ? > > > > This one is going all the way up to Linus since apparently he prefers > > the current naming. See > > http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Extras/SteeringCommittee/Meeting-20070111 > > for the glorious details. > > > Ok but my problem is not really the kernel name but how a driver can > detect correctly the kernel version and eventually the backported patch > to compile fine ... There is no backported patch here. It's a bug in the rt2500 driver that caused the same definition to be repeated twice. The kernel version macro is reporting exactly the same thing in a Fedora kernel as it would if it were run against a vanilla upstream kernel.org 2.6.19.2 tree. Dave -- http://www.codemonkey.org.uk From davej at redhat.com Sun Jan 28 19:48:57 2007 From: davej at redhat.com (Dave Jones) Date: Sun, 28 Jan 2007 14:48:57 -0500 Subject: kernel versionning problem In-Reply-To: <45B5371F.6000502@fedoraproject.org> References: <1169502233.4812.3.camel@bureau.maison> <45B52FFE.5080307@fedoraproject.org> <1169503477.4812.9.camel@bureau.maison> <45B5371F.6000502@fedoraproject.org> Message-ID: <20070128194857.GH9081@redhat.com> On Tue, Jan 23, 2007 at 03:43:51AM +0530, Rahul Sundaram wrote: > Tanguy Eric wrote: > > Le mardi 23 janvier 2007 ? 03:13 +0530, Rahul Sundaram a ?crit : > >> Tanguy Eric wrote: > >>> I sent this message to fedora-list at redhat.com but i had no reaction so i > >>> try also the devel one because i find this is problem we have to solve > >>> for the core and extras merge, no ? > >>> > >>> I'm tired to have problems with rt2500 driver at each new fedora kernel > >>> release because the versionning seems to not follow standards : > >>> http://rt2x00.serialmonkey.com/phpBB2/viewtopic.php?t=2965 > >>> > >>> What do you think about this ? > >>> > >>> Someone have similar problems with other modules ? > >> This one is going all the way up to Linus since apparently he prefers > >> the current naming. See > >> http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Extras/SteeringCommittee/Meeting-20070111 > >> for the glorious details. > >> > >> Rahul > >> > > Ok but my problem is not really the kernel name but how a driver can > > detect correctly the kernel version and eventually the backported patch > > to compile fine ... > > Yes. The name of the kernel is directly related to that issue. No, it isn't. The results of the macro being checked by out of tree drivers doesn't take into consideration point releases, so it reports 2.6.19 on 2.6.19.2 just like it does on an upstream kernel (unsurprising, as we don't change it). This is not a Fedora problem, but a problem in the code of the out of tree driver. (14:44:19:davej at gelk:19.2)$ cat include/linux/version.h #define LINUX_VERSION_CODE 132627 #define KERNEL_VERSION(a,b,c) (((a) << 16) + ((b) << 8) + (c)) (14:45:42:davej at gelk:linux-2.6.19.noarch)$ cat include/linux/version.h #define LINUX_VERSION_CODE 132627 #define KERNEL_VERSION(a,b,c) (((a) << 16) + ((b) << 8) + (c)) Now, it *should* be changed to support the 4th sublevel, but doing so would probably break a ton of out of tree drivers, and would probably be seen as another problem of "Fedora developers making kernels that don't conform to standards". If this change were to happen, *then* it would be a problem that we ship 2.6.19.2 yet call it 2.6.19, but given that upstream is broken, we are no moreso. It's way easier to hide incompetence when there's someone else to blame, but in this case, we're doing absolutely nothing wrong. Dave -- http://www.codemonkey.org.uk From davej at redhat.com Sun Jan 28 19:50:28 2007 From: davej at redhat.com (Dave Jones) Date: Sun, 28 Jan 2007 14:50:28 -0500 Subject: kernel versionning problem In-Reply-To: <20070123015349.GA25489@yoda.jdub.homelinux.org> References: <1169502233.4812.3.camel@bureau.maison> <20070123015349.GA25489@yoda.jdub.homelinux.org> Message-ID: <20070128195028.GI9081@redhat.com> On Mon, Jan 22, 2007 at 07:53:49PM -0600, Josh Boyer wrote: > On Mon, Jan 22, 2007 at 05:19:24PM -0600, Jason L Tibbitts III wrote: > > >>>>> "TE" == Tanguy Eric writes: > > > > TE> http://rt2x00.serialmonkey.com/phpBB2/viewtopic.php?t=2965 > > > > Blah, blah, only breaks on Fedora, blah blah, Fedora people don't know > > how to behave. > > > > So exactly what is it that Fedora is doing wrong here? > > Unless the comment in this link is wrong: > > http://rt2x00.serialmonkey.com/phpBB2/posting.php?mode=quote&p=18456&sid=3dcc6f1c6cdc74e8e06177ad8cc2c6f9 > > There is a bug in the driver anyway. > > Theoretically though, the driver is trying to use LINUX_VERSION_CODE to > determine if the kernel version is 2.6.20 or greater so it can use struct > work. The fedora kernel is 2.6.20-rc(something), but it munges the kernel > version to be 2.6.19. That's true for rawhide, however this bug is about fc6, which is 2.6.19.2 Dave -- http://www.codemonkey.org.uk From davej at redhat.com Sun Jan 28 19:51:04 2007 From: davej at redhat.com (Dave Jones) Date: Sun, 28 Jan 2007 14:51:04 -0500 Subject: kernel versionning problem In-Reply-To: <20070123025803.GA25972@yoda.jdub.homelinux.org> References: <1169502233.4812.3.camel@bureau.maison> <20070123015349.GA25489@yoda.jdub.homelinux.org> <20070123025803.GA25972@yoda.jdub.homelinux.org> Message-ID: <20070128195104.GJ9081@redhat.com> On Mon, Jan 22, 2007 at 08:58:03PM -0600, Josh Boyer wrote: > On Mon, Jan 22, 2007 at 07:53:49PM -0600, Josh Boyer wrote: > > > Theoretically though, the driver is trying to use LINUX_VERSION_CODE to > > determine if the kernel version is 2.6.20 or greater so it can use struct > > work. The fedora kernel is 2.6.20-rc(something), but it munges the kernel > > version to be 2.6.19. > > Sorry, ignore this part. I missed that the specific problem was talking > about FC-6. Likewise, ignore my retort, the horrors of processing two week long backlogs serially :) Dave -- http://www.codemonkey.org.uk From davej at redhat.com Sun Jan 28 20:02:46 2007 From: davej at redhat.com (Dave Jones) Date: Sun, 28 Jan 2007 15:02:46 -0500 Subject: rawhide report: 20070127 changes In-Reply-To: <200701271115.l0RBFN7g013184@hs20-bc2-6.build.redhat.com> References: <200701271115.l0RBFN7g013184@hs20-bc2-6.build.redhat.com> Message-ID: <20070128200246.GK9081@redhat.com> On Sat, Jan 27, 2007 at 06:15:23AM -0500, buildsys at redhat.com wrote: > kernel-2.6.19-1.2914.fc7 > ------------------------ > * Fri Jan 26 2007 Bill Nottingham > - turn on CONFIG_SYSFS_DEPRECATED so that things actually work. *sigh* Interesting. That should only be needed for ancient versions of udev. (and by ancient, I mean pre 2006) What broke? Dave -- http://www.codemonkey.org.uk From dakingun at gmail.com Sun Jan 28 20:41:55 2007 From: dakingun at gmail.com (Deji Akingunola) Date: Sun, 28 Jan 2007 15:41:55 -0500 Subject: rawhide report: 20070127 changes In-Reply-To: <20070128200246.GK9081@redhat.com> References: <200701271115.l0RBFN7g013184@hs20-bc2-6.build.redhat.com> <20070128200246.GK9081@redhat.com> Message-ID: On 1/28/07, Dave Jones wrote: > On Sat, Jan 27, 2007 at 06:15:23AM -0500, buildsys at redhat.com wrote: > > > kernel-2.6.19-1.2914.fc7 > > ------------------------ > > * Fri Jan 26 2007 Bill Nottingham > > - turn on CONFIG_SYSFS_DEPRECATED so that things actually work. *sigh* > > Interesting. That should only be needed for ancient versions of udev. > (and by ancient, I mean pre 2006) > > What broke? > One thing I did notice is that this is the first rawhide kernel, post FC-6, that allows my external usb drive to automount when logged into a GNOME session. Deji PS: It automounted (with kernels < 2.6.19-1.2914.fc7) if I boot up with it, but not when plugged in after logging into GNOME, > Dave > > -- > http://www.codemonkey.org.uk > > -- > fedora-devel-list mailing list > fedora-devel-list at redhat.com > https://www.redhat.com/mailman/listinfo/fedora-devel-list > From jkeating at redhat.com Sun Jan 28 21:47:43 2007 From: jkeating at redhat.com (Jesse Keating) Date: Sun, 28 Jan 2007 16:47:43 -0500 Subject: rawhide report: 20070127 changes In-Reply-To: <20070128200246.GK9081@redhat.com> References: <200701271115.l0RBFN7g013184@hs20-bc2-6.build.redhat.com> <20070128200246.GK9081@redhat.com> Message-ID: <200701281647.43983.jkeating@redhat.com> On Sunday 28 January 2007 15:02, Dave Jones wrote: > What broke? I think Bill said it kept reordering network devices. Missing symlinks and such. -- Jesse Keating Release Engineer: Fedora -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 189 bytes Desc: not available URL: From wtogami at redhat.com Sun Jan 28 21:48:52 2007 From: wtogami at redhat.com (Warren Togami) Date: Sun, 28 Jan 2007 16:48:52 -0500 Subject: /etc/init.d in the default $PATH ? In-Reply-To: <45BBE897.9030802@andrei.myip.org> References: <45BBE897.9030802@andrei.myip.org> Message-ID: <45BD1A44.7020003@redhat.com> Florin Andrei wrote: > So, what it the rationale for /etc/init.d not being in the default > $PATH, for root at least? > /etc/rc.d/init.d/spamassassin /usr/bin/spamassassin Which should run when you run 'spamassassin'? Ambiguity is bad. Warren Togami wtogami at redhat.com From davej at redhat.com Sun Jan 28 22:48:34 2007 From: davej at redhat.com (Dave Jones) Date: Sun, 28 Jan 2007 17:48:34 -0500 Subject: rawhide report: 20070127 changes In-Reply-To: <20070128224525.GA27579@kroah.com> References: <200701271115.l0RBFN7g013184@hs20-bc2-6.build.redhat.com> <20070128200246.GK9081@redhat.com> <200701281647.43983.jkeating@redhat.com> <20070128224525.GA27579@kroah.com> Message-ID: <20070128224834.GG23903@redhat.com> On Sun, Jan 28, 2007 at 02:45:25PM -0800, Greg Kroah-Hartman wrote: > On Sun, Jan 28, 2007 at 04:47:43PM -0500, Jesse Keating wrote: > > On Sunday 28 January 2007 15:02, Dave Jones wrote: > > > What broke? > > > > I think Bill said it kept reordering network devices. Missing symlinks and > > such. > > That kernel option should have nothing to do with network devices for > the 2.6.19 kernel release, so I would be very supprised if it changed > anything. For the kernel in question, this was 2.6.20rc5. (I don't think the option even existed back in .19 ?) Dave -- http://www.codemonkey.org.uk From florin at andrei.myip.org Mon Jan 29 00:43:03 2007 From: florin at andrei.myip.org (Florin Andrei) Date: Sun, 28 Jan 2007 16:43:03 -0800 Subject: /etc/init.d in the default $PATH ? In-Reply-To: <45BD1A44.7020003@redhat.com> References: <45BBE897.9030802@andrei.myip.org> <45BD1A44.7020003@redhat.com> Message-ID: <45BD4317.1000606@andrei.myip.org> Warren Togami wrote: > Florin Andrei wrote: >> So, what it the rationale for /etc/init.d not being in the default >> $PATH, for root at least? >> > > /etc/rc.d/init.d/spamassassin > /usr/bin/spamassassin > > Which should run when you run 'spamassassin'? > > Ambiguity is bad. Correct. OTOH, if all files in /etc/init.d would be named init- or something like that, then the ambiguity would disappear and the /etc/init.d could be added to the default $PATH. -- Florin Andrei http://florin.myip.org/ From rdieter at math.unl.edu Mon Jan 29 01:50:49 2007 From: rdieter at math.unl.edu (Rex Dieter) Date: Sun, 28 Jan 2007 19:50:49 -0600 Subject: /etc/init.d in the default $PATH ? In-Reply-To: <45BD4317.1000606@andrei.myip.org> References: <45BBE897.9030802@andrei.myip.org> <45BD1A44.7020003@redhat.com> <45BD4317.1000606@andrei.myip.org> Message-ID: Florin Andrei wrote: > OTOH, if all files in /etc/init.d would be named init- or > something like that, then the ambiguity would disappear and the > /etc/init.d could be added to the default $PATH. Or just use: # service -- Rex From bruno at wolff.to Mon Jan 29 02:05:21 2007 From: bruno at wolff.to (Bruno Wolff III) Date: Sun, 28 Jan 2007 20:05:21 -0600 Subject: /etc/init.d in the default $PATH ? In-Reply-To: <45BBE897.9030802@andrei.myip.org> References: <45BBE897.9030802@andrei.myip.org> Message-ID: <20070129020521.GA29526@wolff.to> On Sat, Jan 27, 2007 at 16:04:39 -0800, Florin Andrei wrote: > So, what it the rationale for /etc/init.d not being in the default > $PATH, for root at least? Wouldn't you use the 'service' command to run things there? From icon at fedoraproject.org Mon Jan 29 02:29:44 2007 From: icon at fedoraproject.org (Konstantin Ryabitsev) Date: Sun, 28 Jan 2007 21:29:44 -0500 Subject: /etc/init.d in the default $PATH ? In-Reply-To: References: <45BBE897.9030802@andrei.myip.org> <45BD1A44.7020003@redhat.com> <45BD4317.1000606@andrei.myip.org> Message-ID: On 1/28/07, Rex Dieter wrote: > > OTOH, if all files in /etc/init.d would be named init- or > > something like that, then the ambiguity would disappear and the > > /etc/init.d could be added to the default $PATH. > > Or just use: > # service Yes, and bash-completion *will* tab-complete the entries from /etc/init.d for you when you use "service". Cheers, -- Konstantin Ryabitsev Montr?al, Qu?bec From bojan at rexursive.com Mon Jan 29 02:29:37 2007 From: bojan at rexursive.com (Bojan Smojver) Date: Mon, 29 Jan 2007 02:29:37 +0000 (UTC) Subject: status of Build system for merged Core and Extras References: <1169359555.3691.4.camel@localhost.localdomain> Message-ID: Any news regarding this? -- Bojan From jwilliam at xmission.com Mon Jan 29 02:53:21 2007 From: jwilliam at xmission.com (Jerry Williams) Date: Sun, 28 Jan 2007 19:53:21 -0700 Subject: /etc/init.d in the default $PATH ? In-Reply-To: References: <45BBE897.9030802@andrei.myip.org> <45BD1A44.7020003@redhat.com><45BD4317.1000606@andrei.myip.org> Message-ID: <002a01c74350$a30077b0$020aa8c0@a18> > -----Original Message----- > From: fedora-devel-list-bounces at redhat.com [mailto:fedora-devel-list- > bounces at redhat.com] On Behalf Of Konstantin Ryabitsev > Sent: Sunday, January 28, 2007 7:30 PM > To: Development discussions related to Fedora Core > Subject: Re: /etc/init.d in the default $PATH ? > > On 1/28/07, Rex Dieter wrote: > > > OTOH, if all files in /etc/init.d would be named init- > or > > > something like that, then the ambiguity would disappear and the > > > /etc/init.d could be added to the default $PATH. > > > > Or just use: > > # service > > Yes, and bash-completion *will* tab-complete the entries from > /etc/init.d for you when you use "service". > > Cheers, > -- > Konstantin Ryabitsev > Montr?al, Qu?bec That is interesting. cd /etc/init.d service wi works Doesn't seem to matter if /etc/init.d is in the PATH or not. If you aren't in /etc/init.d service wi doesn't work even if /etc/init.d is in your PATH. I don?t' think that /etc/init.d should be in your path. Either use the service command or cd /etc/init.d and use ./command. Or /etc/init.d/command. I seem to always cd to /etc/init.d to look most of the time I can't remember the name of a service anyway. From jspaleta at gmail.com Mon Jan 29 03:09:54 2007 From: jspaleta at gmail.com (Jeff Spaleta) Date: Sun, 28 Jan 2007 18:09:54 -0900 Subject: /etc/init.d in the default $PATH ? In-Reply-To: <002a01c74350$a30077b0$020aa8c0@a18> References: <45BBE897.9030802@andrei.myip.org> <45BD1A44.7020003@redhat.com> <45BD4317.1000606@andrei.myip.org> <002a01c74350$a30077b0$020aa8c0@a18> Message-ID: <604aa7910701281909i31b8cadbp89e4e249853aa8c7@mail.gmail.com> On 1/28/07, Jerry Williams wrote: > I seem to always cd to /etc/init.d to look most of the time I can't remember > the name of a service anyway. Since we seem to have degraded into personal workflow ideas.... I always just do chkconfig --list to review the service names, when i need to. Now... if service grew a similiar --list option, I wouldn't mind it. If you got me drunk enough, I'd say that we as administrators ( and yes I'm qualified to speak for every last surly one of them ) would get the most benefit in workflow if the functionality of service and chkconfig got magically rolled into the same command. -jef"and drunk enough here means 1 tequila shot, preferable from a brand that comes from a plastic bottle"spaleta From tmus at tmus.dk Mon Jan 29 08:09:19 2007 From: tmus at tmus.dk (Thomas M Steenholdt) Date: Mon, 29 Jan 2007 09:09:19 +0100 Subject: /etc/init.d in the default $PATH ? In-Reply-To: <1170010640.15049.8.camel@localhost> References: <45BBE897.9030802@andrei.myip.org> <20070128000656.GW3639@zoidtechnologies.com> <45BBEDDD.9000003@rjohnson.com> <1169944673.17152.3.camel@localhost> <20070128031644.GA1153195@hiwaay.net> <20070128141823.GC16521@tux.gsfc.nasa.gov> <1170010640.15049.8.camel@localhost> Message-ID: Peter Gordon wrote: > Straight from the Filesystem Hierarchy Standard, version 2.3 (emphasis > mine): > > "/sbin : System binaries > Purpose > Utilities used for system administration (and other *root-only* > commands) are stored in /sbin, /usr/sbin, and /usr/local/sbin. /sbin > contains binaries essential for booting, restoring, recovering, and/or > repairing the system in addition to the binaries in /bin. [...]" > > The /sbin/ (and /usr/sbin, et al.) stuff is specifically meant for > administrative utilities. Having it in a user's PATH makes no sense when > they are not meant to use these. And, if they *are* meant to use them, > then it's likely that they need at least limited root privileges, so > sudo or something similar should be configured for the purpose, not > merely some PATH munging. > Absolutely! /Thomas From tmus at tmus.dk Mon Jan 29 08:11:39 2007 From: tmus at tmus.dk (Thomas M Steenholdt) Date: Mon, 29 Jan 2007 09:11:39 +0100 Subject: /etc/init.d in the default $PATH ? In-Reply-To: <20070128193438.GA1479725@hiwaay.net> References: <45BBE897.9030802@andrei.myip.org> <20070128000656.GW3639@zoidtechnologies.com> <45BBEDDD.9000003@rjohnson.com> <1169944673.17152.3.camel@localhost> <20070128031644.GA1153195@hiwaay.net> <20070128141823.GC16521@tux.gsfc.nasa.gov> <1170010640.15049.8.camel@localhost> <20070128193438.GA1479725@hiwaay.net> Message-ID: Chris Adams wrote: > > There are a number of things in the sbin directories that are NOT > root-only. They may be things that are generally only useful to system > administrators, but they don't require root access. > > Then there are things that are designed specifically to NOT be run as > root that are in sbin directories; bonnie++ for example. It that case, I guess it could be argued that bonnie++ could perhaps be more rightfully placed in /usr/bin instead?!? /Thomas From tmus at tmus.dk Mon Jan 29 08:17:56 2007 From: tmus at tmus.dk (Thomas M Steenholdt) Date: Mon, 29 Jan 2007 09:17:56 +0100 Subject: /etc/init.d in the default $PATH ? In-Reply-To: <45BC45D0.7070003@andrei.myip.org> References: <45BBE897.9030802@andrei.myip.org> <3237e4410701272010t775b7bc4waaea080f3c37a24@mail.gmail.com> <45BC3012.2070201@andrei.myip.org> <1169961781.3625.30.camel@lt21223.campus.dmacc.edu> <45BC45D0.7070003@andrei.myip.org> Message-ID: Florin Andrei wrote: > Jeffrey C. Ollie wrote: >> >> One problem is that many of the init scripts have names that conflict >> with programs on the path. For example, if you type "sshd", are you >> running the binary in /usr/sbin or are you running the init script >> in /etc/init.d? There are numerous other examples. > > That's a pretty good reason. I agree. > Although I'd hate to go down that path (at least without a few divertions first), distros like SUSE creates a symbolic link to a the init.d/* scripts in /sbin (or /usr/sbin - I can't remember) called rc that can be used for this kind of thing. But out /sbin/service command creates a locked down environment for the init-scripts to run in, which means that : service sshd start != /etc/init.d/sshd start If we wanted something like this, i guess we should try to enforce the source of a env cleaning script as the first line in all scripts. Just a thought /Thomas From tmus at tmus.dk Mon Jan 29 08:22:03 2007 From: tmus at tmus.dk (Thomas M Steenholdt) Date: Mon, 29 Jan 2007 09:22:03 +0100 Subject: /etc/init.d in the default $PATH ? In-Reply-To: <45BD4317.1000606@andrei.myip.org> References: <45BBE897.9030802@andrei.myip.org> <45BD1A44.7020003@redhat.com> <45BD4317.1000606@andrei.myip.org> Message-ID: Florin Andrei wrote: > Warren Togami wrote: >> Florin Andrei wrote: >>> So, what it the rationale for /etc/init.d not being in the default >>> $PATH, for root at least? >>> >> >> /etc/rc.d/init.d/spamassassin >> /usr/bin/spamassassin >> >> Which should run when you run 'spamassassin'? >> >> Ambiguity is bad. > > Correct. > > OTOH, if all files in /etc/init.d would be named init- or > something like that, then the ambiguity would disappear and the > /etc/init.d could be added to the default $PATH. > notations such as "service init-sshd restart" would be really annoying. If people think that we should provide some scheme of tab completion for service operations, perhaps a modded rc link, like SUSE provides would be the best (?!?) solution. There's really no way that there should be PATH to /etc/init.d, seriously. /Thomas From buildsys at redhat.com Mon Jan 29 11:02:12 2007 From: buildsys at redhat.com (buildsys at redhat.com) Date: Mon, 29 Jan 2007 06:02:12 -0500 Subject: rawhide report: 20070129 changes Message-ID: <200701291102.l0TB2CPm011534@hs20-bc2-6.build.redhat.com> Updated Packages: (none) Broken deps for s390 ---------------------------------------------------------- systemtap - 0.5.10-1.fc7.s390 requires kernel >= 0:2.6.9-11 systemtap-runtime - 0.5.10-1.fc7.s390 requires kernel >= 0:2.6.9-11 From chabotc at xs4all.nl Mon Jan 29 11:03:48 2007 From: chabotc at xs4all.nl (Chris Chabot) Date: Mon, 29 Jan 2007 12:03:48 +0100 (CET) Subject: Problems trying to make a pungi fc7 test 1 spin Message-ID: <20302.80.95.161.253.1170068628.squirrel@webmail.xs4all.nl> Whenever i try to run pungi (0.2.1-1), either straight from command line, or following the directions on 'running pungi in mock', i get the following error: Downloading openoffice.org-calc-2.1.0-6.13.i386.rpm Traceback (most recent call last): File "/usr/bin/pungi", line 166, in ? main() File "/usr/bin/pungi", line 95, in main mygather.downloadPackages() File "/usr/lib/python2.4/site-packages/pypungi/gather.py", line 194, in downloadPackages os.link(local, os.path.join(pkgdir, os.path.basename(remote))) OSError: [Errno 17] File exists Anyone have any idea how to get past this hurdle? Thanks, -- Chris Chabot From benny+usenet at amorsen.dk Mon Jan 29 11:14:12 2007 From: benny+usenet at amorsen.dk (Benny Amorsen) Date: 29 Jan 2007 12:14:12 +0100 Subject: /etc/init.d in the default $PATH ? References: <45BBE897.9030802@andrei.myip.org> <20070128000656.GW3639@zoidtechnologies.com> <45BBEDDD.9000003@rjohnson.com> <1169944673.17152.3.camel@localhost> <20070128031644.GA1153195@hiwaay.net> <20070128141823.GC16521@tux.gsfc.nasa.gov> <1170010640.15049.8.camel@localhost> <20070128193438.GA1479725@hiwaay.net> Message-ID: >>>>> "TMS" == Thomas M Steenholdt writes: TMS> It that case, I guess it could be argued that bonnie++ could TMS> perhaps be more rightfully placed in /usr/bin instead?!? My most-used /sbin-command without root privileges is /sbin/ip. I wish that one was in /bin, perhaps along with ifconfig for the nostalgic. Back when there were normal users on the command line, it made sense to have the /sbin vs. /bin distinction, but these days normal users stick with the GUI. The rest of us need access to the stuff in /sbin. I support the move of basically everything that isn't a daemon to /bin. /Benny From buc at odusz.so-cdu.ru Mon Jan 29 12:29:47 2007 From: buc at odusz.so-cdu.ru (Dmitry Butskoy) Date: Mon, 29 Jan 2007 15:29:47 +0300 Subject: /etc/init.d in the default $PATH ? In-Reply-To: <45BC3012.2070201@andrei.myip.org> References: <45BBE897.9030802@andrei.myip.org> <3237e4410701272010t775b7bc4waaea080f3c37a24@mail.gmail.com> <45BC3012.2070201@andrei.myip.org> Message-ID: <45BDE8BB.5050905@odu.neva.ru> Florin Andrei wrote: > Mike McGrath wrote: > >> On 1/27/07, Florin Andrei wrote: >> >>> So, what it the rationale for /etc/init.d not being in the default >>> $PATH, for root at least? >> >> >> because "/sbin/service" is... > > > I know what you mean, but TAB completion doesn't work on the service > name when using /sbin/service > Try this (you can place it as "/etc/profile.d/service.sh"): _service_func () { COMPREPLY=( $(cd /etc/init.d; ls ${2}* ) ) } complete -F _service_func service Regards, Dmitry Butskoy http://www.fedoraproject.org/wiki/DmitryButskoy P.S. see /usr/share/doc/bash-*/complete/* for examples... From jkeating at redhat.com Mon Jan 29 14:15:13 2007 From: jkeating at redhat.com (Jesse Keating) Date: Mon, 29 Jan 2007 09:15:13 -0500 Subject: Problems trying to make a pungi fc7 test 1 spin In-Reply-To: <20302.80.95.161.253.1170068628.squirrel@webmail.xs4all.nl> References: <20302.80.95.161.253.1170068628.squirrel@webmail.xs4all.nl> Message-ID: <200701290915.19326.jkeating@redhat.com> On Monday 29 January 2007 06:03, Chris Chabot wrote: > Whenever i try to run pungi (0.2.1-1), either straight from command line, > or following the directions on 'running pungi in mock', i get the > following error: > > Downloading openoffice.org-calc-2.1.0-6.13.i386.rpm > Traceback (most recent call last): > ? File "/usr/bin/pungi", line 166, in ? > ? ? main() > ? File "/usr/bin/pungi", line 95, in main > ? ? mygather.downloadPackages() > ? File "/usr/lib/python2.4/site-packages/pypungi/gather.py", line 194, in > downloadPackages > ? ? os.link(local, os.path.join(pkgdir, os.path.basename(remote))) > OSError: [Errno 17] File exists > > Anyone have any idea how to get past this hurdle? This looks like the second time you've tried to run pungi, and it has already written some files out into your destination directory. Pungi expects a clean destination directory (and a clean work directory I think). -- Jesse Keating Release Engineer: Fedora -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 189 bytes Desc: not available URL: From tmus at tmus.dk Mon Jan 29 15:08:32 2007 From: tmus at tmus.dk (Thomas M Steenholdt) Date: Mon, 29 Jan 2007 16:08:32 +0100 Subject: /etc/init.d in the default $PATH ? In-Reply-To: References: <45BBE897.9030802@andrei.myip.org> <20070128000656.GW3639@zoidtechnologies.com> <45BBEDDD.9000003@rjohnson.com> <1169944673.17152.3.camel@localhost> <20070128031644.GA1153195@hiwaay.net> <20070128141823.GC16521@tux.gsfc.nasa.gov> <1170010640.15049.8.camel@localhost> <20070128193438.GA1479725@hiwaay.net> Message-ID: Benny Amorsen wrote: > My most-used /sbin-command without root privileges is /sbin/ip. I wish > that one was in /bin, perhaps along with ifconfig for the nostalgic. Still, ip and even ifconfig is for administration (diagnostics and troubleshooting is administration too), which is a valid reason why they belong in /sbin. /Thomas From pknirsch at redhat.com Mon Jan 29 15:24:25 2007 From: pknirsch at redhat.com (Phil Knirsch) Date: Mon, 29 Jan 2007 16:24:25 +0100 Subject: Announcing LHCP - Linux Hardware Compatibility Project Message-ID: <45BE11A9.7080702@redhat.com> Hello everyone. We've recently started working on a project called Linux Hardware Compatibility Project or in short LHCP. Goals are: * Provide a list of working hardware for people wanting to buy a new computer * Provide an idea on what hardware our/your distribution in run on * Provide a list of hardware we need to improve support for * Provide an interface to all above that allows simple and complicated queries * Get the user a list of thing that should work and a way to test that * Tell the user how good his hardware is supported There have been several Hardware Compatibility lists from vendors and other projects in the past, but most of them were limited in one aspect or another - so we start our own. To achive this we are building a modular framework to generate, collect, submit and analyze information about all components of systems running Linux and how well each component works. The project is currently in it's infancy, but following the typical pragmatic approach of open source projects ("Release early, release often!") we've decided to already officially announce it. Current status is that the basic GUI application for testing is up and running with some test modules. We're now in the process of writing the first real data collection and test modules and are currently starting to design the server end of the side. The home page of the project can be found here: https://hosted.fedoraproject.org/projects/LHCP If you want to take a look at the current source code you can checked it out using Mercurial in read only mode like this: hg clone http://hg.fedoraproject.org/hg/hosted/LHCP For development discussions a mailing list has been set up here: https://www.redhat.com/mailman/listinfo/lhcp-devel Although the project is hosted under Fedora we're aiming it to be very distribution independant, so supporting other distributions should be easy to do. We have some basic requirements on what is needed on the system for it to simply work, but a lot of things will be optional. Happy hacking, Read ya, Phil & Fabi -- Philipp Knirsch | Tel.: +49-711-96437-470 Development | Fax.: +49-711-96437-111 Red Hat GmbH | Email: Phil Knirsch Hauptstaetterstr. 58 | Web: http://www.redhat.de/ D-70178 Stuttgart Motd: You're only jealous cos the little penguins are talking to me. From notting at redhat.com Mon Jan 29 16:41:38 2007 From: notting at redhat.com (Bill Nottingham) Date: Mon, 29 Jan 2007 11:41:38 -0500 Subject: rawhide report: 20070127 changes In-Reply-To: <20070128224834.GG23903@redhat.com> References: <200701271115.l0RBFN7g013184@hs20-bc2-6.build.redhat.com> <20070128200246.GK9081@redhat.com> <200701281647.43983.jkeating@redhat.com> <20070128224525.GA27579@kroah.com> <20070128224834.GG23903@redhat.com> Message-ID: <20070129164138.GC26425@nostromo.devel.redhat.com> Dave Jones (davej at redhat.com) said: > > > I think Bill said it kept reordering network devices. Missing symlinks and > > > such. > > > > That kernel option should have nothing to do with network devices for > > the 2.6.19 kernel release, so I would be very supprised if it changed > > anything. > > For the kernel in question, this was 2.6.20rc5. > (I don't think the option even existed back in .19 ?) The code that we have that writes the initial network configuration that maps mac addresses <-> device names (so that we handle modules loaded in arbitrary order) associates network devices with physical devices by following net:XXXX symlinks in /sys/bus/pci/devices/XXX, /sys/bus/pcmcia/devices/XXXX, /sys/bus/xen/devices/XXX, etc. The new code (that removes those links) breaks this hard, and rearchitecting everything to have a second pass that walks /sys/class/net/XXX links and associates them with already probed/discovered devices is not something I'm doing at this stage of the freeze. Bill From notting at redhat.com Mon Jan 29 16:44:43 2007 From: notting at redhat.com (Bill Nottingham) Date: Mon, 29 Jan 2007 11:44:43 -0500 Subject: rawhide report: 20070127 changes In-Reply-To: <20070129164138.GC26425@nostromo.devel.redhat.com> References: <200701271115.l0RBFN7g013184@hs20-bc2-6.build.redhat.com> <20070128200246.GK9081@redhat.com> <200701281647.43983.jkeating@redhat.com> <20070128224525.GA27579@kroah.com> <20070128224834.GG23903@redhat.com> <20070129164138.GC26425@nostromo.devel.redhat.com> Message-ID: <20070129164443.GD26425@nostromo.devel.redhat.com> Bill Nottingham (notting at redhat.com) said: > The code that we have that writes the initial network configuration > that maps mac addresses <-> device names (so that we handle modules > loaded in arbitrary order) associates network devices with physical > devices by following net:XXXX symlinks in /sys/bus/pci/devices/XXX, > /sys/bus/pcmcia/devices/XXXX, /sys/bus/xen/devices/XXX, etc. > > The new code (that removes those links) breaks this hard, and > rearchitecting everything to have a second pass that walks /sys/class/net/XXX > links and associates them with already probed/discovered devices > is not something I'm doing at this stage of the freeze. Also, if things like the block layer were converted to this new model (which I assume is coming down the pipe, from this behavior), things would have broken even worse. Bill From icon at fedoraproject.org Mon Jan 29 20:32:56 2007 From: icon at fedoraproject.org (Konstantin Ryabitsev) Date: Mon, 29 Jan 2007 15:32:56 -0500 Subject: /etc/init.d in the default $PATH ? In-Reply-To: <45BDE8BB.5050905@odu.neva.ru> References: <45BBE897.9030802@andrei.myip.org> <3237e4410701272010t775b7bc4waaea080f3c37a24@mail.gmail.com> <45BC3012.2070201@andrei.myip.org> <45BDE8BB.5050905@odu.neva.ru> Message-ID: On 1/29/07, Dmitry Butskoy wrote: > Try this (you can place it as "/etc/profile.d/service.sh"): > > _service_func () > { > COMPREPLY=( $(cd /etc/init.d; ls ${2}* ) ) > } > complete -F _service_func service >From immediate personal experience, you want to make it: COMPREPLY=( $(cd /etc/init.d; /bin/ls ${2}* 2>/dev/null ) ) Cheers, -- Konstantin Ryabitsev Montr?al, Qu?bec From lsof at nodata.co.uk Mon Jan 29 21:16:11 2007 From: lsof at nodata.co.uk (nodata) Date: Mon, 29 Jan 2007 22:16:11 +0100 Subject: Announcing LHCP - Linux Hardware Compatibility Project In-Reply-To: <45BE11A9.7080702@redhat.com> References: <45BE11A9.7080702@redhat.com> Message-ID: <1170105371.3223.4.camel@sb-home.lan> Am Montag, den 29.01.2007, 16:24 +0100 schrieb Phil Knirsch: > Hello everyone. > > We've recently started working on a project called Linux Hardware > Compatibility > Project or in short LHCP. Goals are: > > * Provide a list of working hardware for people wanting to buy a new > computer > * Provide an idea on what hardware our/your distribution in run on > * Provide a list of hardware we need to improve support for > * Provide an interface to all above that allows simple and complicated > queries > * Get the user a list of thing that should work and a way to test that > * Tell the user how good his hardware is supported > > There have been several Hardware Compatibility lists from vendors and > other projects in the past, but most of them were limited in one > aspect or another - so we start our own. > > To achive this we are building a modular framework to generate, collect, > submit > and analyze information about all components of systems running Linux > and how well each component works. > > The project is currently in it's infancy, but following the typical > pragmatic > approach of open source projects ("Release early, release often!") we've > decided to already officially announce it. > > Current status is that the basic GUI application for testing is up and > running > with some test modules. We're now in the process of writing the first real > data collection and test modules and are currently starting to design the > server end of the side. > > The home page of the project can be found here: > > https://hosted.fedoraproject.org/projects/LHCP > > If you want to take a look at the current source code you can checked it out > using Mercurial in read only mode like this: > > hg clone http://hg.fedoraproject.org/hg/hosted/LHCP > > For development discussions a mailing list has been set up here: > > https://www.redhat.com/mailman/listinfo/lhcp-devel > > Although the project is hosted under Fedora we're aiming it to be very > distribution independant, so supporting other distributions should be > easy to > do. We have some basic requirements on what is needed on the system for > it to > simply work, but a lot of things will be optional. > > Happy hacking, > > Read ya, Phil & Fabi > > -- > Philipp Knirsch | Tel.: +49-711-96437-470 > Development | Fax.: +49-711-96437-111 > Red Hat GmbH | Email: Phil Knirsch > Hauptstaetterstr. 58 | Web: http://www.redhat.de/ > D-70178 Stuttgart > Motd: You're only jealous cos the little penguins are talking to me. > Looks good. Will this enable a user to link to a specific piece of hardware for bugzilla reporting? Any chance of a yum repo for easy updates (and more likely-to-test ness)? (Dark and dusty weather?) From javert42 at cs.byu.edu Mon Jan 29 21:45:38 2007 From: javert42 at cs.byu.edu (Topher Fischer) Date: Mon, 29 Jan 2007 14:45:38 -0700 Subject: Adding modules to Fedora's kernel package Message-ID: <45BE6B02.2030207@cs.byu.edu> Is there a standard process for getting things added to Fedora's kernel package. In particular, I'm interested in the hdaps modules (IBM's Hard Drive Active Protection System). I believe it has been in the stable kernel since 2.6.14. Or, am I just thinking about this wrong. Do uncommon modules not go in the kernel package? Do they usually get packaged separately? -- Topher Fischer GnuPG Fingerprint: 3597 1B8D C7A5 C5AF 2E19 EFF5 2FC3 BE99 D123 6674 javert42 at cs.byu.edu -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: signature.asc Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 251 bytes Desc: OpenPGP digital signature URL: From katzj at redhat.com Mon Jan 29 21:47:43 2007 From: katzj at redhat.com (Jeremy Katz) Date: Mon, 29 Jan 2007 16:47:43 -0500 Subject: Adding modules to Fedora's kernel package In-Reply-To: <45BE6B02.2030207@cs.byu.edu> References: <45BE6B02.2030207@cs.byu.edu> Message-ID: <45BE6B7F.30709@redhat.com> Topher Fischer wrote: > Is there a standard process for getting things added to Fedora's kernel > package. In particular, I'm interested in the hdaps modules (IBM's Hard > Drive Active Protection System). I believe it has been in the stable > kernel since 2.6.14. > > Or, am I just thinking about this wrong. Do uncommon modules not go in > the kernel package? Do they usually get packaged separately? The normal approach is "get things upstream". Then, davej tends to turn on new drivers as they appear. In this specific case, it looks like hdaps is already being built and included in the kernel Jeremy From davej at redhat.com Mon Jan 29 21:47:56 2007 From: davej at redhat.com (Dave Jones) Date: Mon, 29 Jan 2007 16:47:56 -0500 Subject: Adding modules to Fedora's kernel package In-Reply-To: <45BE6B02.2030207@cs.byu.edu> References: <45BE6B02.2030207@cs.byu.edu> Message-ID: <20070129214756.GH9363@redhat.com> On Mon, Jan 29, 2007 at 02:45:38PM -0700, Topher Fischer wrote: > Is there a standard process for getting things added to Fedora's kernel > package. In particular, I'm interested in the hdaps modules (IBM's Hard > Drive Active Protection System). I believe it has been in the stable > kernel since 2.6.14. > > Or, am I just thinking about this wrong. Do uncommon modules not go in > the kernel package? Do they usually get packaged separately? It's been in the Fedora kernel since it got merged upstream. $ modinfo hdaps filename: /lib/modules/2.6.19-1.2895.fc6debug/kernel/drivers/hwmon/hdaps.ko license: GPL v2 description: IBM Hard Drive Active Protection System (HDAPS) driver author: Robert Love srcversion: 1C5A2654C3D15545ECF46D0 depends: vermagic: 2.6.19-1.2895.fc6debug SMP mod_unload 686 REGPARM 4KSTACKS parm: invert:invert data along each axis (bool) Dave -- http://www.codemonkey.org.uk From tmus at tmus.dk Mon Jan 29 21:55:14 2007 From: tmus at tmus.dk (Thomas M Steenholdt) Date: Mon, 29 Jan 2007 22:55:14 +0100 Subject: Adding modules to Fedora's kernel package In-Reply-To: <20070129214756.GH9363@redhat.com> References: <45BE6B02.2030207@cs.byu.edu> <20070129214756.GH9363@redhat.com> Message-ID: Dave Jones wrote: > On Mon, Jan 29, 2007 at 02:45:38PM -0700, Topher Fischer wrote: > > Is there a standard process for getting things added to Fedora's kernel > > package. In particular, I'm interested in the hdaps modules (IBM's Hard > > Drive Active Protection System). I believe it has been in the stable > > kernel since 2.6.14. > > > > Or, am I just thinking about this wrong. Do uncommon modules not go in > > the kernel package? Do they usually get packaged separately? > > It's been in the Fedora kernel since it got merged upstream. > > $ modinfo hdaps > filename: /lib/modules/2.6.19-1.2895.fc6debug/kernel/drivers/hwmon/hdaps.ko > license: GPL v2 > description: IBM Hard Drive Active Protection System (HDAPS) driver > author: Robert Love > srcversion: 1C5A2654C3D15545ECF46D0 > depends: > vermagic: 2.6.19-1.2895.fc6debug SMP mod_unload 686 REGPARM 4KSTACKS > parm: invert:invert data along each axis (bool) > > > Dave > > It doesn't get loaded by default thought, even on systems which support it. You could create a file, /etc/sysconfig/modules/sumthinorother.modules, containing something like: --- #!/bin/sh for i in hdaps; do /sbin/modprobe $i >/dev/null 2>&1 done --- That should get it loaded on boot /Thomas From javert42 at cs.byu.edu Mon Jan 29 22:02:00 2007 From: javert42 at cs.byu.edu (Topher Fischer) Date: Mon, 29 Jan 2007 15:02:00 -0700 Subject: Adding modules to Fedora's kernel package In-Reply-To: <20070129214756.GH9363@redhat.com> References: <45BE6B02.2030207@cs.byu.edu> <20070129214756.GH9363@redhat.com> Message-ID: <45BE6ED8.5010808@cs.byu.edu> Dave Jones wrote: > On Mon, Jan 29, 2007 at 02:45:38PM -0700, Topher Fischer wrote: > > Is there a standard process for getting things added to Fedora's kernel > > package. In particular, I'm interested in the hdaps modules (IBM's Hard > > Drive Active Protection System). I believe it has been in the stable > > kernel since 2.6.14. > > > > Or, am I just thinking about this wrong. Do uncommon modules not go in > > the kernel package? Do they usually get packaged separately? > > It's been in the Fedora kernel since it got merged upstream. > > $ modinfo hdaps > filename: /lib/modules/2.6.19-1.2895.fc6debug/kernel/drivers/hwmon/hdaps.ko > license: GPL v2 > description: IBM Hard Drive Active Protection System (HDAPS) driver > author: Robert Love > srcversion: 1C5A2654C3D15545ECF46D0 > depends: > vermagic: 2.6.19-1.2895.fc6debug SMP mod_unload 686 REGPARM 4KSTACKS > parm: invert:invert data along each axis (bool) > > > Dave > I checked a couple fc5 machines that I have access to, and it's in their kernel packages, but I don't see it in either 2.6.18-1.2869.fc6 or 2.6.19-1.2895.fc6. Is there anybody that can verify this? -- Topher Fischer GnuPG Fingerprint: 3597 1B8D C7A5 C5AF 2E19 EFF5 2FC3 BE99 D123 6674 javert42 at cs.byu.edu -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: signature.asc Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 251 bytes Desc: OpenPGP digital signature URL: From jwboyer at jdub.homelinux.org Mon Jan 29 22:07:12 2007 From: jwboyer at jdub.homelinux.org (Josh Boyer) Date: Mon, 29 Jan 2007 16:07:12 -0600 Subject: Adding modules to Fedora's kernel package In-Reply-To: <45BE6ED8.5010808@cs.byu.edu> References: <45BE6B02.2030207@cs.byu.edu> <20070129214756.GH9363@redhat.com> <45BE6ED8.5010808@cs.byu.edu> Message-ID: <1170108432.5533.36.camel@zod.rchland.ibm.com> On Mon, 2007-01-29 at 15:02 -0700, Topher Fischer wrote: > Dave Jones wrote: > > On Mon, Jan 29, 2007 at 02:45:38PM -0700, Topher Fischer wrote: > > > Is there a standard process for getting things added to Fedora's kernel > > > package. In particular, I'm interested in the hdaps modules (IBM's Hard > > > Drive Active Protection System). I believe it has been in the stable > > > kernel since 2.6.14. > > > > > > Or, am I just thinking about this wrong. Do uncommon modules not go in > > > the kernel package? Do they usually get packaged separately? > > > > It's been in the Fedora kernel since it got merged upstream. > > > > $ modinfo hdaps > > filename: /lib/modules/2.6.19-1.2895.fc6debug/kernel/drivers/hwmon/hdaps.ko > > license: GPL v2 > > description: IBM Hard Drive Active Protection System (HDAPS) driver > > author: Robert Love > > srcversion: 1C5A2654C3D15545ECF46D0 > > depends: > > vermagic: 2.6.19-1.2895.fc6debug SMP mod_unload 686 REGPARM 4KSTACKS > > parm: invert:invert data along each axis (bool) > > > > > > Dave > > > I checked a couple fc5 machines that I have access to, and it's in their > kernel packages, but I don't see it in either 2.6.18-1.2869.fc6 or > 2.6.19-1.2895.fc6. Is there anybody that can verify this? You mean aside from the output which Dave provided and you quoted? Sure... sudo /sbin/modinfo hdaps filename: /lib/modules/2.6.19-1.2895.fc6xen/kernel/drivers/hwmon/hdaps.ko license: GPL v2 description: IBM Hard Drive Active Protection System (HDAPS) driver author: Robert Love srcversion: 1C5A2654C3D15545ECF46D0 depends: vermagic: 2.6.19-1.2895.fc6xen SMP mod_unload 686 REGPARM 4KSTACKS parm: invert:invert data along each axis (bool) josh From javert42 at cs.byu.edu Mon Jan 29 22:09:49 2007 From: javert42 at cs.byu.edu (Topher Fischer) Date: Mon, 29 Jan 2007 15:09:49 -0700 Subject: Adding modules to Fedora's kernel package In-Reply-To: <1170108432.5533.36.camel@zod.rchland.ibm.com> References: <45BE6B02.2030207@cs.byu.edu> <20070129214756.GH9363@redhat.com> <45BE6ED8.5010808@cs.byu.edu> <1170108432.5533.36.camel@zod.rchland.ibm.com> Message-ID: <45BE70AD.7030301@cs.byu.edu> Josh Boyer wrote: > On Mon, 2007-01-29 at 15:02 -0700, Topher Fischer wrote: > >> Dave Jones wrote: >> >>> On Mon, Jan 29, 2007 at 02:45:38PM -0700, Topher Fischer wrote: >>> > Is there a standard process for getting things added to Fedora's kernel >>> > package. In particular, I'm interested in the hdaps modules (IBM's Hard >>> > Drive Active Protection System). I believe it has been in the stable >>> > kernel since 2.6.14. >>> > >>> > Or, am I just thinking about this wrong. Do uncommon modules not go in >>> > the kernel package? Do they usually get packaged separately? >>> >>> It's been in the Fedora kernel since it got merged upstream. >>> >>> $ modinfo hdaps >>> filename: /lib/modules/2.6.19-1.2895.fc6debug/kernel/drivers/hwmon/hdaps.ko >>> license: GPL v2 >>> description: IBM Hard Drive Active Protection System (HDAPS) driver >>> author: Robert Love >>> srcversion: 1C5A2654C3D15545ECF46D0 >>> depends: >>> vermagic: 2.6.19-1.2895.fc6debug SMP mod_unload 686 REGPARM 4KSTACKS >>> parm: invert:invert data along each axis (bool) >>> >>> >>> Dave >>> >>> >> I checked a couple fc5 machines that I have access to, and it's in their >> kernel packages, but I don't see it in either 2.6.18-1.2869.fc6 or >> 2.6.19-1.2895.fc6. Is there anybody that can verify this? >> > > You mean aside from the output which Dave provided and you quoted? > Sure... > > sudo /sbin/modinfo hdaps > filename: /lib/modules/2.6.19-1.2895.fc6xen/kernel/drivers/hwmon/hdaps.ko > license: GPL v2 > description: IBM Hard Drive Active Protection System (HDAPS) driver > author: Robert Love > srcversion: 1C5A2654C3D15545ECF46D0 > depends: > vermagic: 2.6.19-1.2895.fc6xen SMP mod_unload 686 REGPARM > 4KSTACKS > parm: invert:invert data along each axis (bool) > > josh > > I'm assuming that kernel packages I listed, the debug kernel that Dave listed, and your xen kernel are separate packages and might be different. Am I making a bad assumption? I was hoping somebody using the same kernel package that I am could verify. -- Topher Fischer GnuPG Fingerprint: 3597 1B8D C7A5 C5AF 2E19 EFF5 2FC3 BE99 D123 6674 javert42 at cs.byu.edu -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: signature.asc Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 251 bytes Desc: OpenPGP digital signature URL: From jwboyer at jdub.homelinux.org Mon Jan 29 22:13:18 2007 From: jwboyer at jdub.homelinux.org (Josh Boyer) Date: Mon, 29 Jan 2007 16:13:18 -0600 Subject: Adding modules to Fedora's kernel package In-Reply-To: <45BE70AD.7030301@cs.byu.edu> References: <45BE6B02.2030207@cs.byu.edu> <20070129214756.GH9363@redhat.com> <45BE6ED8.5010808@cs.byu.edu> <1170108432.5533.36.camel@zod.rchland.ibm.com> <45BE70AD.7030301@cs.byu.edu> Message-ID: <1170108798.5533.40.camel@zod.rchland.ibm.com> On Mon, 2007-01-29 at 15:09 -0700, Topher Fischer wrote: > > I'm assuming that kernel packages I listed, the debug kernel that Dave > listed, and your xen kernel are separate packages and might be > different. Am I making a bad assumption? I was hoping somebody using > the same kernel package that I am could verify. They are all based off the same source. Here's a stock kernel package: [jwboyer at vader ~]$ sudo /sbin/modinfo hdaps filename: /lib/modules/2.6.19-1.2895.fc6/kernel/drivers/hwmon/hdaps.ko license: GPL v2 description: IBM Hard Drive Active Protection System (HDAPS) driver author: Robert Love srcversion: 1C5A2654C3D15545ECF46D0 depends: vermagic: 2.6.19-1.2895.fc6 SMP mod_unload 686 REGPARM 4KSTACKS parm: invert:invert data along each axis (bool) josh From mhw at WittsEnd.com Mon Jan 29 22:14:00 2007 From: mhw at WittsEnd.com (Michael H. Warfield) Date: Mon, 29 Jan 2007 17:14:00 -0500 Subject: 2.6.19.2 IPv6 ND broken because ff02::1 not joined In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <1170108840.4676.87.camel@canyon.wittsend.com> On Mon, 2007-01-15 at 06:39 +0200, Pekka Savola wrote: > On Sat, 13 Jan 2007, Pekka Savola wrote: > > FC6 updates-testing kernel based on 2.6.19.2 (kernel-2.6.19-1.2895.fc6) seems > > to have a broken IPv6 stateless address autoconf. The previous, successfully > > tested version was based on 2.6.18.5 (kernel-2.6.18-1.2860.fc6). > > > > The problem appears to be that the host is not joining the all-nodes > > multicast address (ff02::1) [netstat -g -n], so the IP layer isn't processing > > the received router advertisements even though you can see them with tcpdump. > > The solicited node mcast address is joined though. Loopback interface doesn't > > join ff02::1 either. > > > > linux-2.6-xen.patch at least seems to be making some modifications to IPv6 ND > > code, but I didn't look closely enough if that's the culprit. > > > > If it matters, the network adapter is Realtek 8139. > Two more bits of information: > - one person commented off-list that for him, breakage happened > between 2.6.19.1 and 2.6.19.2. > - kernel-2.6.20rc4-git4 [latest from devel kernel-2.6.19-1.2911] is > also similarly affected. According to comments on lkml, a fix went in post 2.6.20rc5 to fix joining the all nodes multicast group and that does fix the breakage. I think that pretty much implies that 2.6.19 is toast for IPv6. Waiting for 2.6.20... > -- > Pekka Savola "You each name yourselves king, yet the > Netcore Oy kingdom bleeds." > Systems. Networks. Security. -- George R.R. Martin: A Clash of Kings Mike -- Michael H. Warfield (AI4NB) | (770) 985-6132 | mhw at WittsEnd.com /\/\|=mhw=|\/\/ | (678) 463-0932 | http://www.wittsend.com/mhw/ NIC whois: MHW9 | An optimist believes we live in the best of all PGP Key: 0xDF1DD471 | possible worlds. A pessimist is sure of it! -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: signature.asc Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 307 bytes Desc: This is a digitally signed message part URL: From javert42 at cs.byu.edu Mon Jan 29 22:21:25 2007 From: javert42 at cs.byu.edu (Topher Fischer) Date: Mon, 29 Jan 2007 15:21:25 -0700 Subject: Adding modules to Fedora's kernel package In-Reply-To: <1170108798.5533.40.camel@zod.rchland.ibm.com> References: <45BE6B02.2030207@cs.byu.edu> <20070129214756.GH9363@redhat.com> <45BE6ED8.5010808@cs.byu.edu> <1170108432.5533.36.camel@zod.rchland.ibm.com> <45BE70AD.7030301@cs.byu.edu> <1170108798.5533.40.camel@zod.rchland.ibm.com> Message-ID: <45BE7365.9050403@cs.byu.edu> Josh Boyer wrote: > On Mon, 2007-01-29 at 15:09 -0700, Topher Fischer wrote: > >> >> I'm assuming that kernel packages I listed, the debug kernel that Dave >> listed, and your xen kernel are separate packages and might be >> different. Am I making a bad assumption? I was hoping somebody using >> the same kernel package that I am could verify. >> > > They are all based off the same source. Here's a stock kernel package: > > [jwboyer at vader ~]$ sudo /sbin/modinfo hdaps > filename: /lib/modules/2.6.19-1.2895.fc6/kernel/drivers/hwmon/hdaps.ko > license: GPL v2 > description: IBM Hard Drive Active Protection System (HDAPS) driver > author: Robert Love > srcversion: 1C5A2654C3D15545ECF46D0 > depends: > vermagic: 2.6.19-1.2895.fc6 SMP mod_unload 686 REGPARM 4KSTACKS > parm: invert:invert data along each axis (bool) > > josh > > Thank you for clearing that up. I'm still confused why I don't have it on my system. I don't think it's interesting enough for anybody else to worry about, but then again, I don't really have a good idea about what constitutes "interesting." Here's what I see: [root at virgil javert42]# uname -r 2.6.19-1.2895.fc6 [root at virgil javert42]# modinfo hdaps modinfo: could not find module hdaps I also get nothing when I grep my kernel package for hdaps: [root at virgil javert42]# rpm -ql kernel | grep hdaps Again, thanks for the input. Thomas also answered a separate question that I had. -- Topher Fischer GnuPG Fingerprint: 3597 1B8D C7A5 C5AF 2E19 EFF5 2FC3 BE99 D123 6674 javert42 at cs.byu.edu -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: signature.asc Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 251 bytes Desc: OpenPGP digital signature URL: From lists at wilsonet.com Mon Jan 29 22:31:54 2007 From: lists at wilsonet.com (Jarod Wilson) Date: Mon, 29 Jan 2007 17:31:54 -0500 Subject: Adding modules to Fedora's kernel package In-Reply-To: <45BE7365.9050403@cs.byu.edu> References: <45BE6B02.2030207@cs.byu.edu> <20070129214756.GH9363@redhat.com> <45BE6ED8.5010808@cs.byu.edu> <1170108432.5533.36.camel@zod.rchland.ibm.com> <45BE70AD.7030301@cs.byu.edu> <1170108798.5533.40.camel@zod.rchland.ibm.com> <45BE7365.9050403@cs.byu.edu> Message-ID: <45BE75DA.1060500@wilsonet.com> Topher Fischer wrote: > Josh Boyer wrote: >> On Mon, 2007-01-29 at 15:09 -0700, Topher Fischer wrote: >> >>> >>> I'm assuming that kernel packages I listed, the debug kernel that Dave >>> listed, and your xen kernel are separate packages and might be >>> different. Am I making a bad assumption? I was hoping somebody using >>> the same kernel package that I am could verify. >>> >> They are all based off the same source. Here's a stock kernel package: >> >> [jwboyer at vader ~]$ sudo /sbin/modinfo hdaps >> filename: /lib/modules/2.6.19-1.2895.fc6/kernel/drivers/hwmon/hdaps.ko >> license: GPL v2 >> description: IBM Hard Drive Active Protection System (HDAPS) driver >> author: Robert Love >> srcversion: 1C5A2654C3D15545ECF46D0 >> depends: >> vermagic: 2.6.19-1.2895.fc6 SMP mod_unload 686 REGPARM 4KSTACKS >> parm: invert:invert data along each axis (bool) >> >> josh >> >> > Thank you for clearing that up. I'm still confused why I don't have it > on my system. I don't think it's interesting enough for anybody else to > worry about, but then again, I don't really have a good idea about what > constitutes "interesting." Here's what I see: > > [root at virgil javert42]# uname -r > 2.6.19-1.2895.fc6 > [root at virgil javert42]# modinfo hdaps > modinfo: could not find module hdaps > > I also get nothing when I grep my kernel package for hdaps: > > [root at virgil javert42]# rpm -ql kernel | grep hdaps > > Again, thanks for the input. Thomas also answered a separate question > that I had. Just a guess, but maybe you have i586 kernels installed instead of i686? See http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Bugs/FC6Common to check on that... --jarod From caillon at redhat.com Mon Jan 29 22:34:52 2007 From: caillon at redhat.com (Christopher Ailllon) Date: Mon, 29 Jan 2007 17:34:52 -0500 Subject: /etc/init.d in the default $PATH ? In-Reply-To: <45BC3012.2070201@andrei.myip.org> References: <45BBE897.9030802@andrei.myip.org> <3237e4410701272010t775b7bc4waaea080f3c37a24@mail.gmail.com> <45BC3012.2070201@andrei.myip.org> Message-ID: <45BE768C.4020601@redhat.com> Florin Andrei wrote: > Mike McGrath wrote: >> On 1/27/07, Florin Andrei wrote: >>> So, what it the rationale for /etc/init.d not being in the default >>> $PATH, for root at least? >> >> because "/sbin/service" is... > > I know what you mean, but TAB completion doesn't work on the service > name when using /sbin/service That's because you haven't discovered how wonderful zsh is yet. From jcm at redhat.com Mon Jan 29 22:36:02 2007 From: jcm at redhat.com (Jon Masters) Date: Mon, 29 Jan 2007 17:36:02 -0500 Subject: Adding modules to Fedora's kernel package In-Reply-To: <45BE7365.9050403@cs.byu.edu> References: <45BE6B02.2030207@cs.byu.edu> <20070129214756.GH9363@redhat.com> <45BE6ED8.5010808@cs.byu.edu> <1170108432.5533.36.camel@zod.rchland.ibm.com> <45BE70AD.7030301@cs.byu.edu> <1170108798.5533.40.camel@zod.rchland.ibm.com> <45BE7365.9050403@cs.byu.edu> Message-ID: <45BE76D2.20909@redhat.com> Topher Fischer wrote: > [root at virgil javert42]# uname -r > 2.6.19-1.2895.fc6 More precisely, what system are you running? It might be a kernel config difference if these other folks are all i686 and you've got an ia64 laptop or whatever... :P Jon. From dhollis at davehollis.com Mon Jan 29 22:38:56 2007 From: dhollis at davehollis.com (David Hollis) Date: Mon, 29 Jan 2007 17:38:56 -0500 Subject: Adding modules to Fedora's kernel package In-Reply-To: <45BE7365.9050403@cs.byu.edu> References: <45BE6B02.2030207@cs.byu.edu> <20070129214756.GH9363@redhat.com> <45BE6ED8.5010808@cs.byu.edu> <1170108432.5533.36.camel@zod.rchland.ibm.com> <45BE70AD.7030301@cs.byu.edu> <1170108798.5533.40.camel@zod.rchland.ibm.com> <45BE7365.9050403@cs.byu.edu> Message-ID: <1170110336.3753.24.camel@dhollis-lnx.sunera.com> On Mon, 2007-01-29 at 15:21 -0700, Topher Fischer wrote: > [root at virgil javert42]# uname -r > 2.6.19-1.2895.fc6 > [root at virgil javert42]# modinfo hdaps > modinfo: could not find module hdaps > > I also get nothing when I grep my kernel package for hdaps: > > [root at virgil javert42]# rpm -ql kernel | grep hdaps > > Again, thanks for the input. Thomas also answered a separate question > that I had. Maybe you are running the i586 arch kernel without realizing it. It looks like the i586 kernel doesn't get the HDAPS module. Run: rpm -q --queryformat "%{ARCH}\n" kernel to see what arch you are running. FC6 has a nasty issue with occasionally installing i586 kernels on i686 capable systems at random times. -- David Hollis From javert42 at cs.byu.edu Mon Jan 29 22:41:31 2007 From: javert42 at cs.byu.edu (Topher Fischer) Date: Mon, 29 Jan 2007 15:41:31 -0700 Subject: Adding modules to Fedora's kernel package In-Reply-To: <45BE75DA.1060500@wilsonet.com> References: <45BE6B02.2030207@cs.byu.edu> <20070129214756.GH9363@redhat.com> <45BE6ED8.5010808@cs.byu.edu> <1170108432.5533.36.camel@zod.rchland.ibm.com> <45BE70AD.7030301@cs.byu.edu> <1170108798.5533.40.camel@zod.rchland.ibm.com> <45BE7365.9050403@cs.byu.edu> <45BE75DA.1060500@wilsonet.com> Message-ID: <45BE781B.6040504@cs.byu.edu> Jarod Wilson wrote: > Topher Fischer wrote: >> Josh Boyer wrote: >>> On Mon, 2007-01-29 at 15:09 -0700, Topher Fischer wrote: >>> >>>> I'm assuming that kernel packages I listed, the debug kernel that >>>> Dave >>>> listed, and your xen kernel are separate packages and might be >>>> different. Am I making a bad assumption? I was hoping somebody using >>>> the same kernel package that I am could verify. >>>> >>> They are all based off the same source. Here's a stock kernel package: >>> >>> [jwboyer at vader ~]$ sudo /sbin/modinfo hdaps >>> filename: >>> /lib/modules/2.6.19-1.2895.fc6/kernel/drivers/hwmon/hdaps.ko >>> license: GPL v2 >>> description: IBM Hard Drive Active Protection System (HDAPS) driver >>> author: Robert Love >>> srcversion: 1C5A2654C3D15545ECF46D0 >>> depends: vermagic: 2.6.19-1.2895.fc6 SMP mod_unload 686 >>> REGPARM 4KSTACKS parm: invert:invert data along each axis >>> (bool) >>> >>> josh >>> >>> >> Thank you for clearing that up. I'm still confused why I don't have it >> on my system. I don't think it's interesting enough for anybody else to >> worry about, but then again, I don't really have a good idea about what >> constitutes "interesting." Here's what I see: >> >> [root at virgil javert42]# uname -r >> 2.6.19-1.2895.fc6 >> [root at virgil javert42]# modinfo hdaps >> modinfo: could not find module hdaps >> >> I also get nothing when I grep my kernel package for hdaps: >> >> [root at virgil javert42]# rpm -ql kernel | grep hdaps >> >> Again, thanks for the input. Thomas also answered a separate question >> that I had. > > Just a guess, but maybe you have i586 kernels installed instead of i686? > > See http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Bugs/FC6Common to check on that... > > --jarod That was it. Again, thanks for all the input. -- Topher Fischer GnuPG Fingerprint: 3597 1B8D C7A5 C5AF 2E19 EFF5 2FC3 BE99 D123 6674 javert42 at cs.byu.edu -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: signature.asc Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 251 bytes Desc: OpenPGP digital signature URL: From eswierk at arastra.com Tue Jan 30 01:14:13 2007 From: eswierk at arastra.com (Ed Swierk) Date: Mon, 29 Jan 2007 17:14:13 -0800 Subject: Anaconda ignores version-specific kernel dependencies Message-ID: As I mentioned a while back, I'm using a Kickstart script to point Anaconda at a number of additional yum repositories, including fedora-updates as well as a local repository of homegrown packages. I then install just one package (Arora), which requires a bunch of others for our development environment. In particular, Arora depends on a specific kernel version (for compatibility with a number of homegrown kernel-module packages): Requires: kernel = 2.6.18-1.2869.fc6 This worked fine as long as 2.6.18-1.2869.fc6 was the latest FC6 kernel. But since then, a newer kernel, 2.6.19-1.2895.fc6, has appeared in the fedora-updates repository. Anaconda now really wants to install the latest kernel package, ignoring the Arora package's dependency on the older one. The result is a bit of a mess: - only kernel-2.6.19-1.2895.fc6 is actually installed - grub.conf contains entries for both kernels - kernel-2.6.18-1.2869.fc6 is the default entry in grub.conf (resulting in a "file not found" on boot) - there is no initrd for kernel-2.6.18-1.2869.fc6 - the grub.conf entry for kernel-2.6.19-1.2895.fc6 has "-up" appended (not sure if this means anything, as it ends up running in smp mode) As a workaround, if I add an explicit %packages entry in my Kickstart script, all is well: kernel-2.6.18-1.2869.fc6 (Actually, Anaconda still ends up installing kernel-headers-2.6.19-1.2895.fc6, but I can live with that.) So the point of this long-winded explanation is to ask whether what I'm trying to do ought to work, or whether there is another way to accomplish the same result: installing a particular kernel version without having to edit my Kickstart script every time package dependencies are modified. It looks like selectBestKernel() in yuminstall.py is a tricky piece of code, so I'd like to know whether this is the right approach before fiddling with the logic. --Ed From naoki at valuecommerce.com Tue Jan 30 03:09:46 2007 From: naoki at valuecommerce.com (Naoki) Date: Tue, 30 Jan 2007 12:09:46 +0900 Subject: kernel-2.6.19-1.2895.fc6 dies. do_IRQ Message-ID: <1170126586.3289.163.camel@dragon.valuecommerce.ne.jp> Sorry for the cross-post (fedora-list) but I'm wondering if any help is required in debugging? This locks my IBM x3550 : "do_IRQ: 0.177 No irq handler for vector" I need a power cycle after that. Messages file reveals.. Not much really : Jan 30 20:32:10 localhost kernel: SELinux: initialized (dev autofs, type autofs), uses genfs_contexts Jan 30 20:32:10 localhost last message repeated 2 times Jan 30 20:32:10 localhost kernel: do_IRQ: 0.177 No irq handler for vector Looking around I find Mr Andrew Morton on the case, which is a relief. http://lkml.org/lkml/2007/1/22/121 It's being seen on 16-core systems, I'm running only a four core box though. Doesn't look like a patch is out yet so my original plan of trying Rawhide probably will not help. Current rawhide kernel is 2.6.19-1.2914.fc7. I have not (yet?) had the problem on 2.6.18-1.2798.fc6. It only seems to be a problem in the 2.6.19 kernel IRQ handling? From fedora at camperquake.de Tue Jan 30 07:36:27 2007 From: fedora at camperquake.de (Ralf Ertzinger) Date: Tue, 30 Jan 2007 08:36:27 +0100 Subject: Adding modules to Fedora's kernel package In-Reply-To: <20070129214756.GH9363@redhat.com> References: <45BE6B02.2030207@cs.byu.edu> <20070129214756.GH9363@redhat.com> Message-ID: <20070130083627.230ffc72@banea.int.addix.net> Hi. On Mon, 29 Jan 2007 16:47:56 -0500, Dave Jones wrote: > $ modinfo hdaps > filename: /lib/modules/2.6.19-1.2895.fc6debug/kernel/drivers/hwmon/hdaps.ko > license: GPL v2 > description: IBM Hard Drive Active Protection System (HDAPS) driver > author: Robert Love > srcversion: 1C5A2654C3D15545ECF46D0 > depends: > vermagic: 2.6.19-1.2895.fc6debug SMP mod_unload 686 REGPARM > 4KSTACKS parm: invert:invert data along each axis (bool) Unfortunately there is more to this than just this module (which just drives the sensor, the actual parking has to be done in software). There have been patches floating around that add this capability to the IDE/SATA drivers, as the command necessary to protect the hard disk is not supported by the stock driver. See: http://www.dresco.co.uk/hdaps/ From buildsys at redhat.com Tue Jan 30 10:11:49 2007 From: buildsys at redhat.com (buildsys at redhat.com) Date: Tue, 30 Jan 2007 05:11:49 -0500 Subject: rawhide report: 20070130 changes Message-ID: <200701301011.l0UABn7U016056@hs20-bc2-6.build.redhat.com> Updated Packages: (none) Broken deps for s390 ---------------------------------------------------------- systemtap - 0.5.10-1.fc7.s390 requires kernel >= 0:2.6.9-11 systemtap-runtime - 0.5.10-1.fc7.s390 requires kernel >= 0:2.6.9-11 From pknirsch at redhat.com Tue Jan 30 10:39:20 2007 From: pknirsch at redhat.com (Phil Knirsch) Date: Tue, 30 Jan 2007 11:39:20 +0100 Subject: Announcing LHCP - Linux Hardware Compatibility Project In-Reply-To: <1170105371.3223.4.camel@sb-home.lan> References: <45BE11A9.7080702@redhat.com> <1170105371.3223.4.camel@sb-home.lan> Message-ID: <45BF2058.2020009@redhat.com> nodata wrote: > Am Montag, den 29.01.2007, 16:24 +0100 schrieb Phil Knirsch: >> Hello everyone. >> >> We've recently started working on a project called Linux Hardware >> Compatibility >> Project or in short LHCP. Goals are: >> >> * Provide a list of working hardware for people wanting to buy a new >> computer >> * Provide an idea on what hardware our/your distribution in run on >> * Provide a list of hardware we need to improve support for >> * Provide an interface to all above that allows simple and complicated >> queries >> * Get the user a list of thing that should work and a way to test that >> * Tell the user how good his hardware is supported >> >> There have been several Hardware Compatibility lists from vendors and >> other projects in the past, but most of them were limited in one >> aspect or another - so we start our own. >> >> To achive this we are building a modular framework to generate, collect, >> submit >> and analyze information about all components of systems running Linux >> and how well each component works. >> >> The project is currently in it's infancy, but following the typical >> pragmatic >> approach of open source projects ("Release early, release often!") we've >> decided to already officially announce it. >> >> Current status is that the basic GUI application for testing is up and >> running >> with some test modules. We're now in the process of writing the first real >> data collection and test modules and are currently starting to design the >> server end of the side. >> >> The home page of the project can be found here: >> >> https://hosted.fedoraproject.org/projects/LHCP >> >> If you want to take a look at the current source code you can checked it out >> using Mercurial in read only mode like this: >> >> hg clone http://hg.fedoraproject.org/hg/hosted/LHCP >> >> For development discussions a mailing list has been set up here: >> >> https://www.redhat.com/mailman/listinfo/lhcp-devel >> >> Although the project is hosted under Fedora we're aiming it to be very >> distribution independant, so supporting other distributions should be >> easy to >> do. We have some basic requirements on what is needed on the system for >> it to >> simply work, but a lot of things will be optional. >> >> Happy hacking, >> >> Read ya, Phil & Fabi >> >> -- >> Philipp Knirsch | Tel.: +49-711-96437-470 >> Development | Fax.: +49-711-96437-111 >> Red Hat GmbH | Email: Phil Knirsch >> Hauptstaetterstr. 58 | Web: http://www.redhat.de/ >> D-70178 Stuttgart >> Motd: You're only jealous cos the little penguins are talking to me. >> > > Looks good. Will this enable a user to link to a specific piece of > hardware for bugzilla reporting? Good point, we'll add that to feature list. > > Any chance of a yum repo for easy updates (and more likely-to-test > ness)? Yea, as soon as we're done with the server side as well we'll be doing some "real" packaging of the whole project with specfile and autoFOO magic. > (Dark and dusty weather?) Weather sucked here during the last few weeks so this looked like the perfect test module. :) Read ya, Phil PS: Don't mention the rocket :) -- Philipp Knirsch | Tel.: +49-711-96437-470 Development | Fax.: +49-711-96437-111 Red Hat GmbH | Email: Phil Knirsch Hauptstaetterstr. 58 | Web: http://www.redhat.de/ D-70178 Stuttgart Motd: You're only jealous cos the little penguins are talking to me. From hughsient at gmail.com Tue Jan 30 11:15:15 2007 From: hughsient at gmail.com (Richard Hughes) Date: Tue, 30 Jan 2007 11:15:15 +0000 Subject: Announcing LHCP - Linux Hardware Compatibility Project In-Reply-To: <45BE11A9.7080702@redhat.com> References: <45BE11A9.7080702@redhat.com> Message-ID: <1170155715.3368.34.camel@hughsie-laptop> On Mon, 2007-01-29 at 16:24 +0100, Phil Knirsch wrote: > Hello everyone. > > We've recently started working on a project called Linux Hardware > Compatibility > Project or in short LHCP. Goals are: Just a nit, but nomenclature for sleep states should probably be consistent with the rest of the desktop. Suspend-to-disk should probably be "hibernate" and suspend-to-ram should be "suspend". The reverse action is "resume from suspend" for example. See http://svn.gnome.org/svn/gnome-power-manager/trunk/docs/sleep-names.html for rationale. Richard. From pknirsch at redhat.com Tue Jan 30 13:00:10 2007 From: pknirsch at redhat.com (Phil Knirsch) Date: Tue, 30 Jan 2007 14:00:10 +0100 Subject: Announcing LHCP - Linux Hardware Compatibility Project In-Reply-To: <1170155715.3368.34.camel@hughsie-laptop> References: <45BE11A9.7080702@redhat.com> <1170155715.3368.34.camel@hughsie-laptop> Message-ID: <45BF415A.9070900@redhat.com> Richard Hughes wrote: > On Mon, 2007-01-29 at 16:24 +0100, Phil Knirsch wrote: >> Hello everyone. >> >> We've recently started working on a project called Linux Hardware >> Compatibility >> Project or in short LHCP. Goals are: > > Just a nit, but nomenclature for sleep states should probably be > consistent with the rest of the desktop. > > Suspend-to-disk should probably be "hibernate" and suspend-to-ram should > be "suspend". The reverse action is "resume from suspend" for example. > > See > http://svn.gnome.org/svn/gnome-power-manager/trunk/docs/sleep-names.html > for rationale. > > Richard. > > Thanks Richard, i'll change the nomenclature accordingly. Read ya, Phil -- Philipp Knirsch | Tel.: +49-711-96437-470 Development | Fax.: +49-711-96437-111 Red Hat GmbH | Email: Phil Knirsch Hauptstaetterstr. 58 | Web: http://www.redhat.de/ D-70178 Stuttgart Motd: You're only jealous cos the little penguins are talking to me. From Matt_Domsch at dell.com Tue Jan 30 15:57:58 2007 From: Matt_Domsch at dell.com (Matt Domsch) Date: Tue, 30 Jan 2007 09:57:58 -0600 Subject: Core i386 rawhide rebuild in mock status 2007-01-30 Message-ID: <20070130155758.GA23570@lists.us.dell.com> Core Rawhide-in-Mock Build Results for i386 Tue Jan 30 08:06:24 CST 2007 Full logs at http://linux.dell.com/files/fedora/FixBuildRequires/ Total packages: 1161 Number failed to build: 90 Number expected to fail due to ExclusiveArch or ExcludeArch: 9 Leaving: 81 (there may be some duplicates if rawhide has 2 versions of a package) Of those expected to have worked... Without a bug filed: 81 ---------------------------------- amanda-2.5.0p2-4 anthy-7900-2.fc6 arts-1.5.5-1.fc7 aspell-es-0.50-13.2.2 aspell-no-0.50.1-9.2.2 aspell-pt-0.50-10.2.2 automake15-1.5-16 automake16-1.6.3-8 automake17-1.7.9-7 autorun-3.20-1.1 brltty-3.7.2-1.fc6 castor-0.9.5-1jpp.7 crypto-utils-2.3-1 dbus-1.0.1-3.fc7 eclipse-bugzilla-0.2.4-3.fc6 evolution-connector-2.9.5-1.fc7 f-spot-0.2.1-2.fc7 frysk-0.0.1.2006.12.22.rh1-1.fc7 g-wrap-1.9.6-7.1 gfs2-utils-0.1.7-1.fc6 gmime-2.2.3-3.fc6 gnome-sharp-2.16.0-1.fc6 gnucash-2.0.4-1.fc6 grub-0.97-13 hal-0.5.8.1-6.fc7 httpd-2.2.3-8 icon-naming-utils-0.8.1-1.fc6 jgroups-2.2.9.2-3jpp.2 junit-3.8.2-3jpp.1 kasumi-2.0.1-1.1.fc6 kdeadmin-3.5.5-0.1.fc6 kdeartwork-3.5.5-0.1.fc6 kdebase-3.5.5-0.4.fc6 kdegames-3.5.5-0.1.fc6 kdegraphics-3.5.5-0.1.fc6 kdemultimedia-3.5.5-0.1.fc6 kdenetwork-3.5.5-0.1.fc6 kdesdk-3.5.5-0.1.fc6 kdevelop-3.3.5-0.1.fc6 kdewebdev-3.5.5-0.1.fc6 kdnssd-avahi-0.1.3-0.1.20060713svn.fc6 kexec-tools-1.101-56.fc7 libbtctl-0.8.2-2.fc7 libgssapi-0.10-1 libieee1284-0.2.9-4 libwvstreams-4.2.2-2.1 linux-atm-2.5.0-1.20050118cvs mikmod-3.1.6-39.fc7 mx4j-3.0.1-6jpp.4 mysql-5.0.27-1.fc7 mysqlclient10-3.23.58-9.2.1 mysqlclient14-4.1.14-4.2.1 nfs-utils-lib-1.0.8-7.2 openldap-2.3.30-1.1.fc7 opensp-1.5.2-3.1 pam-0.99.7.1-1.fc7 patchutils-0.2.31-2.2.2 perl-5.8.8-12.fc7 php-pear-1.4.9-4 planner-0.14.2-3.fc7 ppc64-utils-0.11-1.fc7 prelink-0.3.10-1 rhdb-utils-8.1.1-1.2.2 scim-anthy-1.2.2-1.fc7 sgml-common-0.6.3-19 squirrelmail-1.4.8-3.fc6 star-1.5a75-1 struts-1.2.9-4jpp.2 systemtap-0.5.10-1.fc7 tetex-3.0-35.fc7 tomcat5-5.5.17-6jpp.2 velocity-1.4-6jpp.1 w3m-0.5.1-15.fc6 xferstats-2.16-14.1 xmlto-0.0.18-13.1 xorg-x11-apps-7.1-3.fc6 xorg-x11-drv-nsc-2.8.1-2.1 xorg-x11-server-utils-7.1-4.fc6 xorg-x11-utils-7.1-2.fc6 xorg-x11-xfwp-1.0.1-3.1 xorg-x11-xsm-1.0.2-4.fc6 With bugs filed: 0 ---------------------------------- -- Matt Domsch Software Architect Dell Linux Solutions linux.dell.com & www.dell.com/linux Linux on Dell mailing lists @ http://lists.us.dell.com From Matt_Domsch at dell.com Tue Jan 30 15:58:26 2007 From: Matt_Domsch at dell.com (Matt Domsch) Date: Tue, 30 Jan 2007 09:58:26 -0600 Subject: Core x86_64 rawhide rebuild in mock status 2007-01-30 Message-ID: <20070130155826.GB23570@lists.us.dell.com> Core Rawhide-in-Mock Build Results for x86_64 Tue Jan 30 08:04:15 CST 2007 Full logs at http://linux.dell.com/files/fedora/FixBuildRequires/ Total packages: 1160 Number failed to build: 112 Number expected to fail due to ExclusiveArch or ExcludeArch: 23 Leaving: 89 (there may be some duplicates if rawhide has 2 versions of a package) Of those expected to have worked... Without a bug filed: 89 ---------------------------------- alacarte-0.11.1.1-1.fc7 amanda-2.5.0p2-4 anthy-7900-2.fc6 arts-1.5.5-1.fc7 aspell-es-0.50-13.2.2 aspell-no-0.50.1-9.2.2 aspell-pt-0.50-10.2.2 automake15-1.5-16 automake16-1.6.3-8 automake17-1.7.9-7 autorun-3.20-1.1 boost-1.33.1-10.fc7 brltty-3.7.2-1.fc6 castor-0.9.5-1jpp.7 compat-gcc-32-3.2.3-61 compat-gcc-34-3.4.6-4 crypto-utils-2.3-1 dbus-1.0.1-3.fc7 eclipse-bugzilla-0.2.4-3.fc6 evolution-connector-2.9.5-1.fc7 f-spot-0.2.1-2.fc7 frysk-0.0.1.2006.12.22.rh1-1.fc7 g-wrap-1.9.6-7.1 gfs2-utils-0.1.7-1.fc6 gmime-2.2.3-3.fc6 gnome-sharp-2.16.0-1.fc6 gnucash-2.0.4-1.fc6 grub-0.97-13 hal-0.5.8.1-6.fc7 httpd-2.2.3-8 icon-naming-utils-0.8.1-1.fc6 jgroups-2.2.9.2-3jpp.2 junit-3.8.2-3jpp.1 kasumi-2.0.1-1.1.fc6 kdeadmin-3.5.5-0.1.fc6 kdeartwork-3.5.5-0.1.fc6 kdebase-3.5.5-0.4.fc6 kdegames-3.5.5-0.1.fc6 kdegraphics-3.5.5-0.1.fc6 kdemultimedia-3.5.5-0.1.fc6 kdenetwork-3.5.5-0.1.fc6 kdesdk-3.5.5-0.1.fc6 kdevelop-3.3.5-0.1.fc6 kdewebdev-3.5.5-0.1.fc6 kdnssd-avahi-0.1.3-0.1.20060713svn.fc6 kexec-tools-1.101-56.fc7 libbtctl-0.8.2-2.fc7 libgssapi-0.10-1 libieee1284-0.2.9-4 libwvstreams-4.2.2-2.1 linux-atm-2.5.0-1.20050118cvs memtest86+-1.65-4.1 mikmod-3.1.6-39.fc7 mx4j-3.0.1-6jpp.4 mysql-5.0.27-1.fc7 mysqlclient10-3.23.58-9.2.1 mysqlclient14-4.1.14-4.2.1 nfs-utils-lib-1.0.8-7.2 openldap-2.3.30-1.1.fc7 opensp-1.5.2-3.1 pam-0.99.7.1-1.fc7 patchutils-0.2.31-2.2.2 perl-5.8.8-12.fc7 perl-PDL-2.4.3-1.fc7 php-pear-1.4.9-4 planner-0.14.2-3.fc7 ppc64-utils-0.11-1.fc7 prelink-0.3.10-1 rhdb-utils-8.1.1-1.2.2 scim-anthy-1.2.2-1.fc7 sgml-common-0.6.3-19 squirrelmail-1.4.8-3.fc6 star-1.5a75-1 struts-1.2.9-4jpp.2 syslinux-3.31-2 systemtap-0.5.10-1.fc7 tetex-3.0-35.fc7 tomcat5-5.5.17-6jpp.2 valgrind-3.2.1-7 velocity-1.4-6jpp.1 w3m-0.5.1-15.fc6 xen-3.0.4-3.fc7 xferstats-2.16-14.1 xmlto-0.0.18-13.1 xorg-x11-apps-7.1-3.fc6 xorg-x11-server-utils-7.1-4.fc6 xorg-x11-utils-7.1-2.fc6 xorg-x11-xfwp-1.0.1-3.1 xorg-x11-xsm-1.0.2-4.fc6 With bugs filed: 0 ---------------------------------- -- Matt Domsch Software Architect Dell Linux Solutions linux.dell.com & www.dell.com/linux Linux on Dell mailing lists @ http://lists.us.dell.com From Matt_Domsch at dell.com Tue Jan 30 15:59:01 2007 From: Matt_Domsch at dell.com (Matt Domsch) Date: Tue, 30 Jan 2007 09:59:01 -0600 Subject: Extras i386 rawhide rebuild in mock status 2007-01-30 Message-ID: <20070130155901.GC23570@lists.us.dell.com> Extras Rawhide-in-Mock Build Results for i386 Tue Jan 30 08:16:22 CST 2007 Full logs at http://linux.dell.com/files/fedora/FixBuildRequires/ Total packages: 2606 Number failed to build: 113 Number expected to fail due to ExclusiveArch or ExcludeArch: 2 Leaving: 111 (there may be some duplicates if rawhide has 2 versions of a package) Of those expected to have worked... Without a bug filed: 111 ---------------------------------- R-RScaLAPACK-0.5.1-8.fc6 tcallawa at redhat.com Thunar-0.8.0-1.fc7 kevin at tummy.com airsnort-0.2.7e-11.fc7 andreas.bierfert at lowlatency.de amarok-1.4.4-5.fc7 gauret at free.fr banshee-0.10.12-4.fc6 caillon at redhat.com bitbake-1.6.0-2.fc7 andreas at bawue.net bsd-games-2.17-16.fc7 wart at kobold.org bugzilla-2.22.1-3.fc7.src.rpm bwm-ng-0.5-8.fc6.src.rpm cal3d-0.11.0-2.fc6 chris.stone at gmail.com cogito-0.18.2-2.fc7 chrisw at redhat.com compat-erlang-R10B-10.4.fc6 gemi at bluewin.ch conexusmm-0.4.0-5.fc6 rvinyard at cs.nmsu.edu conglomerate-0.9.1-2.fc6 jamatos at fc.up.pt csound-5.03.0-9.fc7 dcbw at redhat.com ctrlproxy-2.6.2-7.fc6 jwboyer at jdub.homelinux.org cyphesis-0.5.10-3.fc7.src.rpm darcs-1.0.8-4.fc7 petersen at redhat.com dia-0.95-7.fc6 j.w.r.degoede at hhs.nl djvulibre-3.5.17-2.fc6 matthias at rpmforge.net eclipse-gef-3.2.1-3.fc7 overholt at redhat.com eclipse-phpeclipse-1.1.8-15.fc7.src.rpm em8300-kmod-0.16.0-5.2.6.18_1.2869.fc6 ville.skytta at iki.fi epiphany-extensions-2.17.0-1.src.rpm exo-0.3.2-1.fc7 kevin at tummy.com fakeroot-1.5.10-13.fc7 Axel.Thimm at ATrpms.net farsight-0.1.10-2.fc7 bdpepple at ameritech.net flumotion-0.2.1-3.fc6 thomas at apestaart.org fwbackups-1.42.1-3.fc7.src.rpm geany-0.10-4.fc7.src.rpm gforth-0.6.2-7.fc6 gemi at bluewin.ch ghc-6.6-2.fc7 petersen at redhat.com gift-0.11.8.1-6.fc7 rdieter at math.unl.edu git-1.4.4.2-2.fc7 chrisw at redhat.com gkrellm-wifi-0.9.12-3.fc6 j.w.r.degoede at hhs.nl glibmm24-2.12.4-1.fc7.src.rpm gnome-sudoku-0.5.0-1.fc6 stickster at gmail.com gnucap-0.34-3.fc6 j.w.r.degoede at hhs.nl gnumeric-1.6.3-5.fc6 j.w.r.degoede at hhs.nl gpgme-1.1.2-6.fc6.1 rdieter at math.unl.edu gtk-sharp-1.0.10-12.fc7 paul at all-the-johnsons.co.uk haddock-0.8-1.fc7 petersen at redhat.com jogl-1.0.0-5.7.beta5.fc6 green at redhat.com js-1.5-6.fc6 matthias at rpmforge.net kbackup-0.5.1-2.fc6 aportal at univ-montp2.fr kdemultimedia-extras-3.5.5-0.3.fc7 rdieter at math.unl.edu kinput2-v3.1-29.fc6.src.rpm kooldock-0.3-4.20060720cvs.fc6 mr.ecik at gmail.com kpolynome-0.1.2-7.fc6 cgoorah at yahoo.com.au kyum-0.7.5-4.fc6 Jochen at herr-schmitt.de libapreq2-2.09-0.rc2.1.fc7 bojan at rexursive.com libgalago-0.5.2-3.fc6 bdpepple at ameritech.net libgnomedb-1.9.100-12.fc7 j.w.r.degoede at hhs.nl libpaper-1.1.20-5.fc6 tcallawa at redhat.com libreadline-java-0.8.0-13.fc6 ifoox at redhat.com lilypond-doc-2.10.3-1.fc7.src.rpm loudmouth-1.0.5-2.fc6 bdpepple at ameritech.net nomadsync-0.4.2-13.fc6 triad at df.lth.se nyquist-2.32-1.fc7.src.rpm ocsinventory-client-1.0-0.6.RC3.fc7.src.rpm oddjob-0.27-9 nalin at redhat.com openpbx-1.2-3.rc2.svn2135.fc7 dwmw2 at redhat.com orpie-1.4.3-5.fc6 lists at forevermore.net osgcal-0.1.44-1.fc7 chris.stone at gmail.com paraview-2.4.4-3.fc6 orion at cora.nwra.com perl-Archive-Extract-0.14-1.fc7.src.rpm perl-Module-Load-Conditional-0.14-1.fc7.src.rpm perl-Perl-Critic-0.22-2.fc7.src.rpm perl-Test-Perl-Critic-0.08-1.fc7.src.rpm php-extras-5.1.6-1.fc6 dmitry at butskoy.name php-pear-Structures-DataGrid-DataSource-Array-0.1.1-1.fc7.1.src.rpm php-pecl-Fileinfo-1.0.4-1.fc7 fedora at theholbrooks.org powerman-1.0.24-3.fc6 jwilson at redhat.com pungi-0.2.0-1.fc7.src.rpm python-amara-1.1.7-2.fc6 jamatos at fc.up.pt python-basemap-data-0.9-1.fc6 orion at cora.nwra.com python-cherrypy-2.2.1-3.fc6 lmacken at redhat.com python-kid-0.9.4-2.1.fc7.src.rpm python-setuptools-0.6c3-1.1.fc7.src.rpm qa-assistant-0.4.90.5-2.fc6 toshio at tiki-lounge.com rawstudio-0.4.1-2.fc6 giallu at gmail.com sblim-cmpi-base-1.5.4-7.fc7 hamzy at us.ibm.com seahorse-0.8.1-2.fc6 skvidal at phy.duke.edu smolt-0.5-2.fc7.src.rpm socat-1.5.0.0-3.fc6 paul at xelerance.com solfege-3.6.4-8.fc7 foolish at guezz.net soundtouch-1.3.1-6.fc6 j.w.r.degoede at hhs.nl sqlite2-2.8.17-1.fc6 imlinux at gmail.com steghide-0.5.1-2.fc6 Jochen at herr-schmitt.de synaptic-0.57.2-5.2.fc7 Axel.Thimm at ATrpms.net sysprof-kmod-1.0.8-1.2.6.19_1.2913.fc7 giallu at gmail.com tellico-1.2.6-1.fc7 jamatos at fc.up.pt toped-0.8.2-2.fc6 cgoorah at yahoo.com.au twinkle-0.9-2.fc7.src.rpm uqm-0.6.0-1.fc7.src.rpm uw-imap-2006d-1.fc7.src.rpm vdr-1.4.5-2.fc7.src.rpm vdr-subtitles-0.4.0-7.fc7.src.rpm xarchiver-0.4.9-0.1.20070103svn.fc7.src.rpm xca-0.5.1-6.fc6 enrico.scholz at informatik.tu-chemnitz.de xfce4-timer-plugin-0.5-1.fc7.src.rpm xfce4-wavelan-plugin-0.5.3-3.fc6 fedora at christoph-wickert.de xfce4-websearch-plugin-0.1.1-0.1.20070128svn2458.fc7.src.rpm xmldiff-0.6.7-12.fc6 stickster at gmail.com xmlstarlet-1.0.1-4.fc6 stickster at gmail.com xmms-crossfade-0.3.11-1.fc6 matthias at rpmforge.net xmms-speex-0.9.1-8.fc6 matthias at rpmforge.net xosd-2.2.14-8.fc6 kevin at tummy.com xsupplicant-1.2.8-1.fc7.1 tcallawa at redhat.com yaz-2.1.26-1.1.fc6.src.rpm zope-2.9.4-2.fc6 jonathansteffan at gmail.com With bugs filed: 0 ---------------------------------- -- Matt Domsch Software Architect Dell Linux Solutions linux.dell.com & www.dell.com/linux Linux on Dell mailing lists @ http://lists.us.dell.com From Matt_Domsch at dell.com Tue Jan 30 15:59:33 2007 From: Matt_Domsch at dell.com (Matt Domsch) Date: Tue, 30 Jan 2007 09:59:33 -0600 Subject: Extras x86_64 rawhide rebuild in mock status 2007-01-30 Message-ID: <20070130155933.GD23570@lists.us.dell.com> Extras Rawhide-in-Mock Build Results for x86_64 Tue Jan 30 08:12:14 CST 2007 Full logs at http://linux.dell.com/files/fedora/FixBuildRequires/ Total packages: 2606 Number failed to build: 149 Number expected to fail due to ExclusiveArch or ExcludeArch: 20 Leaving: 129 (there may be some duplicates if rawhide has 2 versions of a package) Of those expected to have worked... Without a bug filed: 129 ---------------------------------- PyKDE-3.16.0-5.fc7 rdieter at math.unl.edu R-RScaLAPACK-0.5.1-8.fc6 tcallawa at redhat.com Thunar-0.8.0-1.fc7 kevin at tummy.com airsnort-0.2.7e-11.fc7 andreas.bierfert at lowlatency.de amarok-1.4.4-5.fc7 gauret at free.fr atitvout-0.4-6 andreas.bierfert at lowlatency.de banshee-0.10.12-4.fc6 caillon at redhat.com bibletime-1.6.2-4.fc7 fedora-packaging at dw-perspective.org.uk bitbake-1.6.0-2.fc7 andreas at bawue.net boo-0.7.6.2237-11.fc7 paul at all-the-johnsons.co.uk bsd-games-2.17-16.fc7 wart at kobold.org bugzilla-2.22.1-3.fc7.src.rpm bwm-ng-0.5-8.fc6.src.rpm cal3d-0.11.0-2.fc6 chris.stone at gmail.com cogito-0.18.2-2.fc7 chrisw at redhat.com compat-erlang-R10B-10.4.fc6 gemi at bluewin.ch conexusmm-0.4.0-5.fc6 rvinyard at cs.nmsu.edu conglomerate-0.9.1-2.fc6 jamatos at fc.up.pt csound-5.03.0-9.fc7 dcbw at redhat.com ctrlproxy-2.6.2-7.fc6 jwboyer at jdub.homelinux.org cyphesis-0.5.10-3.fc7.src.rpm daap-sharp-0.3.3-4.fc6 bdpepple at ameritech.net darcs-1.0.8-4.fc7 petersen at redhat.com dia-0.95-7.fc6 j.w.r.degoede at hhs.nl djvulibre-3.5.17-2.fc6 matthias at rpmforge.net eclipse-gef-3.2.1-3.fc7 overholt at redhat.com eclipse-phpeclipse-1.1.8-15.fc7.src.rpm em8300-kmod-0.16.0-5.2.6.18_1.2869.fc6 ville.skytta at iki.fi epiphany-extensions-2.17.0-1.src.rpm exo-0.3.2-1.fc7 kevin at tummy.com fakeroot-1.5.10-13.fc7 Axel.Thimm at ATrpms.net farsight-0.1.10-2.fc7 bdpepple at ameritech.net flumotion-0.2.1-3.fc6 thomas at apestaart.org fwbackups-1.42.1-3.fc7.src.rpm geany-0.10-4.fc7.src.rpm gforth-0.6.2-7.fc6 gemi at bluewin.ch ghc-6.6-2.fc7 petersen at redhat.com ghdl-0.25-0.89svn.1.fc7 t.sailer at alumni.ethz.ch gift-0.11.8.1-6.fc7 rdieter at math.unl.edu git-1.4.4.2-2.fc7 chrisw at redhat.com gkrellm-wifi-0.9.12-3.fc6 j.w.r.degoede at hhs.nl glibmm24-2.12.4-1.fc7.src.rpm gnome-sudoku-0.5.0-1.fc6 stickster at gmail.com gnucap-0.34-3.fc6 j.w.r.degoede at hhs.nl gnumeric-1.6.3-5.fc6 j.w.r.degoede at hhs.nl gpgme-1.1.2-6.fc6.1 rdieter at math.unl.edu granule-1.2.4-2.fc7 3rdshift at comcast.net gtk-sharp-1.0.10-12.fc7 paul at all-the-johnsons.co.uk haddock-0.8-1.fc7 petersen at redhat.com isomaster-0.7-2.fc7.src.rpm jogl-1.0.0-5.7.beta5.fc6 green at redhat.com js-1.5-6.fc6 matthias at rpmforge.net kdemultimedia-extras-3.5.5-0.3.fc7 rdieter at math.unl.edu kinput2-v3.1-29.fc6.src.rpm klamav-0.38-4.fc7 andy at smile.org.ua kooldock-0.3-4.20060720cvs.fc6 mr.ecik at gmail.com kpolynome-0.1.2-7.fc6 cgoorah at yahoo.com.au kyum-0.7.5-4.fc6 Jochen at herr-schmitt.de libapreq2-2.09-0.rc2.1.fc7 bojan at rexursive.com libgalago-0.5.2-3.fc6 bdpepple at ameritech.net libgnomedb-1.9.100-12.fc7 j.w.r.degoede at hhs.nl libmthca-1.0.3-1.fc7 rolandd at cisco.com libpaper-1.1.20-5.fc6 tcallawa at redhat.com libpolyxmass-0.9.0-6.fc5 andreas.bierfert at lowlatency.de libreadline-java-0.8.0-13.fc6 ifoox at redhat.com lilypond-doc-2.10.3-1.fc7.src.rpm loudmouth-1.0.5-2.fc6 bdpepple at ameritech.net mlton-20061107-2.fc7 adam at spicenitz.org monodevelop-0.12-7.fc7 paul at all-the-johnsons.co.uk nant-0.85-12.fc7 paul at all-the-johnsons.co.uk nomadsync-0.4.2-13.fc6 triad at df.lth.se nyquist-2.32-1.fc7.src.rpm obconf-1.6-3.fc6 peter at thecodergeek.com ocsinventory-client-1.0-0.6.RC3.fc7.src.rpm oddjob-0.27-9 nalin at redhat.com openpbx-1.2-3.rc2.svn2135.fc7 dwmw2 at redhat.com orpie-1.4.3-5.fc6 lists at forevermore.net osgcal-0.1.44-1.fc7 chris.stone at gmail.com paraview-2.4.4-3.fc6 orion at cora.nwra.com perl-Archive-Extract-0.14-1.fc7.src.rpm perl-Module-Load-Conditional-0.14-1.fc7.src.rpm perl-Perl-Critic-0.22-2.fc7.src.rpm perl-Test-Perl-Critic-0.08-1.fc7.src.rpm php-extras-5.1.6-1.fc6 dmitry at butskoy.name php-pear-SOAP-0.9.4-1.fc7.src.rpm php-pear-Structures-DataGrid-DataSource-Array-0.1.1-1.fc7.1.src.rpm php-pecl-Fileinfo-1.0.4-1.fc7 fedora at theholbrooks.org powerman-1.0.24-3.fc6 jwilson at redhat.com prewikka-0.9.8-1.fc7 tscherf at redhat.com pungi-0.2.0-1.fc7.src.rpm python-amara-1.1.7-2.fc6 jamatos at fc.up.pt python-basemap-data-0.9-1.fc6 orion at cora.nwra.com python-cherrypy-2.2.1-3.fc6 lmacken at redhat.com python-kid-0.9.4-2.1.fc7.src.rpm python-reportlab-2.0-2.fc7 bdpepple at ameritech.net python-setuptools-0.6c3-1.1.fc7.src.rpm qa-assistant-0.4.90.5-2.fc6 toshio at tiki-lounge.com rawstudio-0.4.1-2.fc6 giallu at gmail.com s3switch-0.0-9.20020912.fc6 paul at xelerance.com sblim-cmpi-base-1.5.4-7.fc7 hamzy at us.ibm.com seahorse-0.8.1-2.fc6 skvidal at phy.duke.edu smolt-0.5-2.fc7.src.rpm socat-1.5.0.0-3.fc6 paul at xelerance.com solfege-3.6.4-8.fc7 foolish at guezz.net soundtouch-1.3.1-6.fc6 j.w.r.degoede at hhs.nl steghide-0.5.1-2.fc6 Jochen at herr-schmitt.de synaptic-0.57.2-5.2.fc7 Axel.Thimm at ATrpms.net sysprof-kmod-1.0.8-1.2.6.19_1.2913.fc7 giallu at gmail.com tellico-1.2.6-1.fc7 jamatos at fc.up.pt toped-0.8.2-2.fc6 cgoorah at yahoo.com.au twinkle-0.9-2.fc7.src.rpm uqm-0.6.0-1.fc7.src.rpm uudeview-0.5.20-9 adrian at lisas.de uw-imap-2006d-1.fc7.src.rpm vdr-1.4.5-2.fc7.src.rpm vdr-subtitles-0.4.0-7.fc7.src.rpm xarchiver-0.4.9-0.1.20070103svn.fc7.src.rpm xca-0.5.1-6.fc6 enrico.scholz at informatik.tu-chemnitz.de xfce4-timer-plugin-0.5-1.fc7.src.rpm xfce4-wavelan-plugin-0.5.3-3.fc6 fedora at christoph-wickert.de xfce4-websearch-plugin-0.1.1-0.1.20070128svn2458.fc7.src.rpm xmldiff-0.6.7-12.fc6 stickster at gmail.com xmlstarlet-1.0.1-4.fc6 stickster at gmail.com xmms-crossfade-0.3.11-1.fc6 matthias at rpmforge.net xmms-speex-0.9.1-8.fc6 matthias at rpmforge.net xosd-2.2.14-8.fc6 kevin at tummy.com xsupplicant-1.2.8-1.fc7.1 tcallawa at redhat.com yaz-2.1.26-1.1.fc6.src.rpm zope-2.9.4-2.fc6 jonathansteffan at gmail.com With bugs filed: 0 ---------------------------------- -- Matt Domsch Software Architect Dell Linux Solutions linux.dell.com & www.dell.com/linux Linux on Dell mailing lists @ http://lists.us.dell.com From fedora at leemhuis.info Tue Jan 30 17:22:26 2007 From: fedora at leemhuis.info (Thorsten Leemhuis) Date: Tue, 30 Jan 2007 18:22:26 +0100 Subject: Announcing LHCP - Linux Hardware Compatibility Project In-Reply-To: <45BE11A9.7080702@redhat.com> References: <45BE11A9.7080702@redhat.com> Message-ID: <45BF7ED2.7070002@leemhuis.info> Hi all! Phil Knirsch schrieb: > > We've recently started working on a project called Linux Hardware > Compatibility > Project or in short LHCP. Nice. But well: It sound like yet-another-hardware-compatibility-list to me. Thus I'm wondering: Don't we have enough of those already? You link to several yourself on https://hosted.fedoraproject.org/projects/LHCP/wiki/Links So why yet another approach? Why not co-operate with one of those? Or wait, let's do it even better: Try to work together with all of those those and solve the problem once and for all *properly* and in a general way? Read that as: cooperate with at least Novell/Opensuse, Debian and Ubuntu and maybe get OSDL ^w TLF on board (from the start of). > [...] > There have been several Hardware Compatibility lists from vendors and > other projects in the past, but most of them were limited in one > aspect or another - so we start our own. Is that reason really good enough? And how do you make sure your approach is not "limited in one aspect or another" in the end, too? If so many other projects did it wrong I'd say this effort will either need a lot of work and manpower or it will run into similar problems. > [...] > Although the project is hosted under Fedora we're aiming it to be very > distribution independant, so supporting other distributions should be > easy to do. Why don't we get then on the board *from the start* of? > [...] CU thl From dyek at real.com Tue Jan 30 18:56:11 2007 From: dyek at real.com (Daniel Yek) Date: Tue, 30 Jan 2007 10:56:11 -0800 Subject: Enabling SELinux Alert notification Message-ID: <6.2.1.2.2.20070130103932.55ebb200@mailone.real.com> Hi, I read about FC6 ships with SELinux alert notification tool, but I couldn't get it to work. After installing FC6 in full, I didn't find the alert tool installed. (I had problem with FirstBoot; workaround found; then my rpm database corrupted after the first update; it was restored. Newbie would really find it not easy, unless they are good at searching for solution on the web. But that is a different story...) I read a few web pages and figured out the package to install, so this is what I had done: # yum install setroubleshoot I started the service: #/etc/init.d/setroubleshoot start I didn't get notification when I copied a file from my home directory to apache html directory and attempted to access the file. I got "403 Forbidden" error page, but there is no notification. I tried the following commands, but they didn't work with root privilege: # /usr/bin/sealert -b could not attach to desktop process, running standalone # /usr/bin/sealert could not attach to desktop process With user privilege, I can start the setroubleshoot browser, but it couldn't access /var/log/messages as expected. What am I missing? Thanks for your help. -- Daniel Yek From Axel.Thimm at ATrpms.net Tue Jan 30 19:04:12 2007 From: Axel.Thimm at ATrpms.net (Axel Thimm) Date: Tue, 30 Jan 2007 20:04:12 +0100 Subject: Extras i386 rawhide rebuild in mock status 2007-01-30 In-Reply-To: <20070130155901.GC23570@lists.us.dell.com> References: <20070130155901.GC23570@lists.us.dell.com> Message-ID: <20070130190412.GA13890@neu.nirvana> On Tue, Jan 30, 2007 at 09:59:01AM -0600, Matt Domsch wrote: > Extras Rawhide-in-Mock Build Results for i386 Tue Jan 30 08:16:22 CST 2007 > > Full logs at http://linux.dell.com/files/fedora/FixBuildRequires/ > > Total packages: 2606 > Number failed to build: 113 > Number expected to fail due to ExclusiveArch or ExcludeArch: 2 > Leaving: 111 > (there may be some duplicates if rawhide has 2 versions of a package) > > Of those expected to have worked... > Without a bug filed: 111 I checked some of the packages assigned to myself and found that xmlto/sgml-common currently fails in rawhide, so any package building docs that way is currently breaking and giving false negatives. -- Axel.Thimm at ATrpms.net -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 189 bytes Desc: not available URL: From ajackson at redhat.com Tue Jan 30 19:52:57 2007 From: ajackson at redhat.com (Adam Jackson) Date: Tue, 30 Jan 2007 14:52:57 -0500 Subject: Core i386 rawhide rebuild in mock status 2007-01-30 In-Reply-To: <20070130155758.GA23570@lists.us.dell.com> References: <20070130155758.GA23570@lists.us.dell.com> Message-ID: <1170186777.17252.4.camel@localhost.localdomain> On Tue, 2007-01-30 at 09:57 -0600, Matt Domsch wrote: > xorg-x11-apps-7.1-3.fc6 Fixed. > xorg-x11-drv-nsc-2.8.1-2.1 Should already be fixed in 2.8.1-3, which didn't get out in time for test1. > xorg-x11-server-utils-7.1-4.fc6 > xorg-x11-utils-7.1-2.fc6 > xorg-x11-xfwp-1.0.1-3.1 > xorg-x11-xsm-1.0.2-4.fc6 Fixed. - ajax From dyek at real.com Tue Jan 30 21:20:27 2007 From: dyek at real.com (Daniel Yek) Date: Tue, 30 Jan 2007 13:20:27 -0800 Subject: Enabling SELinux Alert notification In-Reply-To: <6.2.1.2.2.20070130103932.55ebb200@mailone.real.com> References: <6.2.1.2.2.20070130103932.55ebb200@mailone.real.com> Message-ID: <6.2.1.2.2.20070130131752.56b40120@mailone.real.com> OK, never mind that. After a system reboot, it magically worked. (One bit of important information I forgot to include is that this is a x86_64 system. I'm not sure if that would explain some of the problems that I encountered. By the way, the eye candy is really sweet; like it very much.) -- Daniel Yek At 10:56 AM 1/30/2007, Daniel Yek wrote: >Hi, > >I read about FC6 ships with SELinux alert notification tool, but I >couldn't get it to work. > >After installing FC6 in full, I didn't find the alert tool installed. (I >had problem with FirstBoot; workaround found; then my rpm database >corrupted after the first update; it was restored. Newbie would really >find it not easy, unless they are good at searching for solution on the >web. But that is a different story...) > >I read a few web pages and figured out the package to install, so this is >what I had done: > ># yum install setroubleshoot > >I started the service: >#/etc/init.d/setroubleshoot start > >I didn't get notification when I copied a file from my home directory to >apache html directory and attempted to access the file. I got "403 >Forbidden" error page, but there is no notification. > >I tried the following commands, but they didn't work with root privilege: > ># /usr/bin/sealert -b >could not attach to desktop process, running standalone ># /usr/bin/sealert >could not attach to desktop process > > >With user privilege, I can start the setroubleshoot browser, but it >couldn't access /var/log/messages as expected. > >What am I missing? > >Thanks for your help. > > >-- >Daniel Yek From davej at redhat.com Tue Jan 30 21:36:30 2007 From: davej at redhat.com (Dave Jones) Date: Tue, 30 Jan 2007 16:36:30 -0500 Subject: Adding modules to Fedora's kernel package In-Reply-To: References: <45BE6B02.2030207@cs.byu.edu> <20070129214756.GH9363@redhat.com> Message-ID: <20070130213630.GB16847@redhat.com> On Mon, Jan 29, 2007 at 10:55:14PM +0100, Thomas M Steenholdt wrote: > It doesn't get loaded by default thought, even on systems which support it. > > You could create a file, /etc/sysconfig/modules/sumthinorother.modules, > containing something like: > > --- > #!/bin/sh > for i in hdaps; do > /sbin/modprobe $i >/dev/null 2>&1 > done > --- Nnngh.. This driver doesn't have export anything useful like PCI IDs to make autoloading easy. Its init routine does checking of DMI tables to make it only load on specific laptops. (Which is actually quite sensible). Short of adding a script to call dmidecode to modprobe if necessary, I can't think of a clean way of doing this. Perhaps just making it built-in instead of modular is the best option, at least for now in FC6 and previous. Dave -- http://www.codemonkey.org.uk From davej at redhat.com Tue Jan 30 21:37:54 2007 From: davej at redhat.com (Dave Jones) Date: Tue, 30 Jan 2007 16:37:54 -0500 Subject: Adding modules to Fedora's kernel package In-Reply-To: <20070130083627.230ffc72@banea.int.addix.net> References: <45BE6B02.2030207@cs.byu.edu> <20070129214756.GH9363@redhat.com> <20070130083627.230ffc72@banea.int.addix.net> Message-ID: <20070130213754.GC16847@redhat.com> On Tue, Jan 30, 2007 at 08:36:27AM +0100, Ralf Ertzinger wrote: > Hi. > > On Mon, 29 Jan 2007 16:47:56 -0500, Dave Jones wrote: > > > $ modinfo hdaps > > filename: /lib/modules/2.6.19-1.2895.fc6debug/kernel/drivers/hwmon/hdaps.ko > > license: GPL v2 > > description: IBM Hard Drive Active Protection System (HDAPS) driver > > author: Robert Love > > srcversion: 1C5A2654C3D15545ECF46D0 > > depends: > > vermagic: 2.6.19-1.2895.fc6debug SMP mod_unload 686 REGPARM > > 4KSTACKS parm: invert:invert data along each axis (bool) > > Unfortunately there is more to this than just this module (which > just drives the sensor, the actual parking has to be done in software). > There have been patches floating around that add this capability to the > IDE/SATA drivers, as the command necessary to protect the hard disk > is not supported by the stock driver. I'm not touching ata patches that aren't upstream. Call me chicken, but they mean someone needs to claim responsibility for maintaining them etc across rebases, and storage drivers generally give me the creeps in this regard. Stock answer: get it upstream. Dave -- http://www.codemonkey.org.uk From davej at redhat.com Tue Jan 30 21:40:20 2007 From: davej at redhat.com (Dave Jones) Date: Tue, 30 Jan 2007 16:40:20 -0500 Subject: Anaconda ignores version-specific kernel dependencies In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <20070130214020.GD16847@redhat.com> On Mon, Jan 29, 2007 at 05:14:13PM -0800, Ed Swierk wrote: > It looks like selectBestKernel() in yuminstall.py is a tricky piece of > code, so I'd like to know whether this is the right approach before > fiddling with the logic. I've no idea what arora is, but is there some particular reason why these modules aren't being pushed upstream ? Dave -- http://www.codemonkey.org.uk From kevin at scrye.com Tue Jan 30 21:39:25 2007 From: kevin at scrye.com (Kevin Fenzi) Date: Tue, 30 Jan 2007 14:39:25 -0700 Subject: WorldWide Review Days this weekend Message-ID: <20070130143925.62d1db30@ningauble.scrye.com> Fedora Worldwide Review Days As part of the upcoming merge of Fedora Core and Fedora Extras, and in concert with FudconBoston, the Fedora project is happy to announce the Fedora Worldwide Review days. Whats a Review Day? A Review day is a day where interested parties gather on irc (or in person at FudconBoston) and review a number of Fedora packages that are awaiting review. Each package will be checked against the current Fedora package guidelines. All of the formerly Fedora Core packages will be up for review this weekend. Why have a review Day? * All the formerly Fedora Core packages will need to be reviewed and checked for compliance with the latest guidelines. If you have ever seen packaging problems with your favorite package, now might be a good time to assist reviewing it. * Interested parties will know to meet other reviewers on a central irc channel or in person at FudconBoston. * Questions about reviews or procedures can be answered quickly on channel. Input on core package reviews can be sent to the package maintainer as part of the review. Where are the Wordwide Review Days? Worldwide Review Days will be done via IRC on the irc.freenode.net IRC network, in channel #fedora-extras. Additionally there will be a number of reviewers and members of the Fedora packaging Commitee physically present at the HackFest sessions after FudconBoston, as well as available on IRC to answer questions or provide assistance. See: http://www.fedoraproject.org/wiki/ThorstenLeemhuis/HackFest If you are available and would like to be invited to the physical HackFest in Boston. When will the Worldwide Review Days be held? The Worldwide Review days will be this Saturday and Sunday (2007-02-03 and 2007-02-04), starting around 9:30am EST. See: http://www.fedoraproject.org/wiki/ThorstenLeemhuis/HackFest for more on the schedule. How does it work? Simply join the irc channel. Folks there will be able to point you to a list of packages needing review. If you are a Fedora Maintainer already you should be able to review and approve packages from that list once you are sure they meet all the guidelines. If you are not currently a Fedora Maintainer, you can still provide valuable input on reviews and help us make all our packages better. Note that many people check IRC only every once in a while. Don't be discouraged if you don't see an immediate reply. Ask your question and leave your IRC window open to collect replies as people have time to do so. Also, it's better to ask your questions and wait than to ask if anyone is there or if you can ask questions. Helpful Links general IRC information: http://www.tldp.org/HOWTO/IRC/beginners.html irc.freenode.net information: http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Communicate FudConBoston: http://barcamp.org/FudconBoston2007 HackFest: http://www.fedoraproject.org/wiki/ThorstenLeemhuis/HackFest WorldWideReviewDays: http://www.fedoraproject.org/wiki/Extras/WorldWideReviewDays -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: signature.asc Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 189 bytes Desc: not available URL: From jcm at redhat.com Tue Jan 30 21:46:18 2007 From: jcm at redhat.com (Jon Masters) Date: Tue, 30 Jan 2007 16:46:18 -0500 Subject: Adding modules to Fedora's kernel package In-Reply-To: <20070130213630.GB16847@redhat.com> References: <45BE6B02.2030207@cs.byu.edu> <20070129214756.GH9363@redhat.com> <20070130213630.GB16847@redhat.com> Message-ID: <1170193578.32311.29.camel@jcm.boston.redhat.com> On Tue, 2007-01-30 at 16:36 -0500, Dave Jones wrote: > Nnngh.. This driver doesn't have export anything useful like PCI IDs to > make autoloading easy. Its init routine does checking of DMI tables > to make it only load on specific laptops. (Which is actually quite > sensible). > Short of adding a script to call dmidecode to modprobe if necessary, > I can't think of a clean way of doing this. > Perhaps just making it built-in instead of modular is the best option, > at least for now in FC6 and previous. Perhaps a new advisory MODULE_ tag might be useful? Then we can just have depmod pick up the dependency according to its configuration? Jon. From eswierk at arastra.com Tue Jan 30 22:09:31 2007 From: eswierk at arastra.com (Ed Swierk) Date: Tue, 30 Jan 2007 14:09:31 -0800 Subject: Anaconda ignores version-specific kernel dependencies In-Reply-To: <20070130214020.GD16847@redhat.com> References: <20070130214020.GD16847@redhat.com> Message-ID: On 1/30/07, Dave Jones wrote: > I've no idea what arora is, but is there some particular reason why > these modules aren't being pushed upstream ? Arora is basically a dummy package whose sole purpose in life is to Require all the other packages we need on our development machines. This lets us configure a vanilla Fedora box for our environment just by yum installing Arora. The kernel module in question is the closed-source QEMU Accelerator (kqemu) module: http://qemu.org/qemu-accel.html . --Ed From notting at redhat.com Tue Jan 30 22:26:56 2007 From: notting at redhat.com (Bill Nottingham) Date: Tue, 30 Jan 2007 17:26:56 -0500 Subject: Adding modules to Fedora's kernel package In-Reply-To: <20070130213630.GB16847@redhat.com> References: <45BE6B02.2030207@cs.byu.edu> <20070129214756.GH9363@redhat.com> <20070130213630.GB16847@redhat.com> Message-ID: <20070130222656.GB15836@nostromo.devel.redhat.com> Dave Jones (davej at redhat.com) said: > Nnngh.. This driver doesn't have export anything useful like PCI IDs to > make autoloading easy. Its init routine does checking of DMI tables > to make it only load on specific laptops. (Which is actually quite > sensible). > > Short of adding a script to call dmidecode to modprobe if necessary, > I can't think of a clean way of doing this. > Perhaps just making it built-in instead of modular is the best option, > at least for now in FC6 and previous. Can't we add modaliases for DMI data, and have the kernel export that? Bill From davej at redhat.com Tue Jan 30 23:52:41 2007 From: davej at redhat.com (Dave Jones) Date: Tue, 30 Jan 2007 18:52:41 -0500 Subject: Adding modules to Fedora's kernel package In-Reply-To: <20070130222656.GB15836@nostromo.devel.redhat.com> References: <45BE6B02.2030207@cs.byu.edu> <20070129214756.GH9363@redhat.com> <20070130213630.GB16847@redhat.com> <20070130222656.GB15836@nostromo.devel.redhat.com> Message-ID: <20070130235241.GA11603@redhat.com> On Tue, Jan 30, 2007 at 05:26:56PM -0500, Bill Nottingham wrote: > Dave Jones (davej at redhat.com) said: > > Nnngh.. This driver doesn't have export anything useful like PCI IDs to > > make autoloading easy. Its init routine does checking of DMI tables > > to make it only load on specific laptops. (Which is actually quite > > sensible). > > > > Short of adding a script to call dmidecode to modprobe if necessary, > > I can't think of a clean way of doing this. > > Perhaps just making it built-in instead of modular is the best option, > > at least for now in FC6 and previous. > > Can't we add modaliases for DMI data, and have the kernel export that? Sure. We could. Needs someone to write the bits for module-init-tools to parse them based on the dmi of the running system too though. Dave -- http://www.codemonkey.org.uk From hughsient at gmail.com Wed Jan 31 00:11:09 2007 From: hughsient at gmail.com (Richard Hughes) Date: Wed, 31 Jan 2007 00:11:09 +0000 Subject: Adding modules to Fedora's kernel package In-Reply-To: <20070130235241.GA11603@redhat.com> References: <45BE6B02.2030207@cs.byu.edu> <20070129214756.GH9363@redhat.com> <20070130213630.GB16847@redhat.com> <20070130222656.GB15836@nostromo.devel.redhat.com> <20070130235241.GA11603@redhat.com> Message-ID: <1170202269.6077.6.camel@hughsie-laptop> On Tue, 2007-01-30 at 18:52 -0500, Dave Jones wrote: > > Sure. We could. Needs someone to write the bits for module-init-tools > to parse them based on the dmi of the running system too though. HAL exports dmidata in properties on the computer object - or is that too late in the boot to modprobe stuff? Richard. From notting at redhat.com Wed Jan 31 02:00:53 2007 From: notting at redhat.com (Bill Nottingham) Date: Tue, 30 Jan 2007 21:00:53 -0500 Subject: Adding modules to Fedora's kernel package In-Reply-To: <20070130235241.GA11603@redhat.com> References: <45BE6B02.2030207@cs.byu.edu> <20070129214756.GH9363@redhat.com> <20070130213630.GB16847@redhat.com> <20070130222656.GB15836@nostromo.devel.redhat.com> <20070130235241.GA11603@redhat.com> Message-ID: <20070131020053.GA18505@nostromo.devel.redhat.com> Dave Jones (davej at redhat.com) said: > > Can't we add modaliases for DMI data, and have the kernel export that? > > Sure. We could. Needs someone to write the bits for module-init-tools > to parse them based on the dmi of the running system too though. Nonono.... these would be exported in /sys/bus/dmi/blahblah/modalias... that way udev automatically handles it. Bill From jkeating at redhat.com Wed Jan 31 03:19:13 2007 From: jkeating at redhat.com (Jesse Keating) Date: Tue, 30 Jan 2007 22:19:13 -0500 Subject: F7 Test1 Delayed Message-ID: <200701302219.13199.jkeating@redhat.com> by a couple of days. A kernel issue (new sysfs breakage), anaconda (pkgorder was wrong), and some comps issues conspired to delay our Test 1 release. Instead of releasing today (which you probably noticed we didn't do), we'll be releasing on Thursday, provided the mirrors had enough time to sync it up. At this time, we are not altering any other schedule dates. -- Jesse Keating Release Engineer: Fedora -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 189 bytes Desc: not available URL: From chitlesh at fedoraproject.org Wed Jan 31 05:08:11 2007 From: chitlesh at fedoraproject.org (Chitlesh GOORAH) Date: Wed, 31 Jan 2007 06:08:11 +0100 Subject: F7 KDE spin, package splitting In-Reply-To: References: <45A2BABB.2090902@math.unl.edu> <200701082157.53135.lamont@gurulabs.com> <200701092257.25229.lamont@gurulabs.com> Message-ID: <13dbfe4f0701302108i43257020u4ac2e394bdb2ac6c@mail.gmail.com> On 1/10/07, Rex Dieter wrote: > OK, I agree, in theory. Now, any concrete suggestions (with > justifications)? (: How about: - kruler - kcolorchooser - kcoloredit - kiconedit from kdegraphics ? These little apps are not useful for the norma joe neither for an admin. Chitlesh -- http://clunixchit.blogspot.com From pemboa at gmail.com Wed Jan 31 06:31:32 2007 From: pemboa at gmail.com (Arthur Pemberton) Date: Wed, 31 Jan 2007 00:31:32 -0600 Subject: F7 KDE spin, package splitting In-Reply-To: <13dbfe4f0701302108i43257020u4ac2e394bdb2ac6c@mail.gmail.com> References: <45A2BABB.2090902@math.unl.edu> <200701082157.53135.lamont@gurulabs.com> <200701092257.25229.lamont@gurulabs.com> <13dbfe4f0701302108i43257020u4ac2e394bdb2ac6c@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <16de708d0701302231o6a3f2309u54a00f436905ea62@mail.gmail.com> On 1/30/07, Chitlesh GOORAH wrote: > On 1/10/07, Rex Dieter wrote: > > OK, I agree, in theory. Now, any concrete suggestions (with > > justifications)? (: > > How about: > - kruler > - kcolorchooser > - kcoloredit > - kiconedit > from kdegraphics ? > > These little apps are not useful for the norma joe neither for an admin. > > Chitlesh Hey....they are useful to me. KColorChooser for sure. -- Fedora Core 6 and proud From fedora at camperquake.de Wed Jan 31 08:11:39 2007 From: fedora at camperquake.de (Ralf Ertzinger) Date: Wed, 31 Jan 2007 09:11:39 +0100 Subject: Adding modules to Fedora's kernel package In-Reply-To: <20070130213754.GC16847@redhat.com> References: <45BE6B02.2030207@cs.byu.edu> <20070129214756.GH9363@redhat.com> <20070130083627.230ffc72@banea.int.addix.net> <20070130213754.GC16847@redhat.com> Message-ID: <20070131091139.5d149627@banea.int.addix.net> Hi. On Tue, 30 Jan 2007 16:37:54 -0500, Dave Jones wrote: > I'm not touching ata patches that aren't upstream. > Call me chicken, but they mean someone needs to claim responsibility > for maintaining them etc across rebases, and storage drivers generally > give me the creeps in this regard. I'm fine with that, I just wanted to point out that just getting hdaps into the kernel will save your bacon in case you start throwing your laptop around. From fedora at camperquake.de Wed Jan 31 08:48:42 2007 From: fedora at camperquake.de (Ralf Ertzinger) Date: Wed, 31 Jan 2007 09:48:42 +0100 Subject: Adding modules to Fedora's kernel package In-Reply-To: <20070131091139.5d149627@banea.int.addix.net> References: <45BE6B02.2030207@cs.byu.edu> <20070129214756.GH9363@redhat.com> <20070130083627.230ffc72@banea.int.addix.net> <20070130213754.GC16847@redhat.com> <20070131091139.5d149627@banea.int.addix.net> Message-ID: <20070131094842.412f7249@banea.int.addix.net> Hi. On Wed, 31 Jan 2007 09:11:39 +0100, Ralf Ertzinger wrote: > I'm fine with that, I just wanted to point out that just getting hdaps > into the kernel will save your bacon in case you start throwing your > laptop around. Of course it will _not_ save your bacon or any other breakfast products. From gilboad at gmail.com Wed Jan 31 08:51:31 2007 From: gilboad at gmail.com (Gilboa Davara) Date: Wed, 31 Jan 2007 10:51:31 +0200 Subject: F7 KDE spin, package splitting In-Reply-To: <13dbfe4f0701302108i43257020u4ac2e394bdb2ac6c@mail.gmail.com> References: <45A2BABB.2090902@math.unl.edu> <200701082157.53135.lamont@gurulabs.com> <200701092257.25229.lamont@gurulabs.com> <13dbfe4f0701302108i43257020u4ac2e394bdb2ac6c@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <1170233491.15252.8.camel@gilboa-work-dev.localdomain> On Wed, 2007-01-31 at 06:08 +0100, Chitlesh GOORAH wrote: > On 1/10/07, Rex Dieter wrote: > > OK, I agree, in theory. Now, any concrete suggestions (with > > justifications)? (: > > How about: > - kruler > - kcolorchooser > - kcoloredit > - kiconedit > from kdegraphics ? > > These little apps are not useful for the norma joe neither for an admin. > > Chitlesh > -- > http://clunixchit.blogspot.com > I may be asking a stupid question, but considering the nature of the Fedora-KDE project (community driven) and the limited resource the project has at it's disposal, shouldn't the resources be spent on say, creating a better KDE environment Instead of just repacking the life out of KDE? - Gilboa From buildsys at redhat.com Wed Jan 31 11:49:37 2007 From: buildsys at redhat.com (buildsys at redhat.com) Date: Wed, 31 Jan 2007 06:49:37 -0500 Subject: rawhide report: 20070131 changes Message-ID: <200701311149.l0VBnbLM020755@hs20-bc2-6.build.redhat.com> Removed package lvm2-cluster Updated Packages: alacarte-0.11.1.1-2.fc7 ----------------------- * Fri Jan 26 2007 Matthias Clasen - 0.11.1.1-2 - Fix the Provides: line anaconda-11.2.0.19-1 -------------------- * Tue Jan 30 2007 Jeremy Katz - 11.2.0.19-1 - pkgorder cleanup for various tree layouts (jkeating) - Use $TMPDIR in scripts (Steve Pritchard, #224438) - Wrap timezone label when it's long (clumens, #225444) - Map Fedora -> Fedora Core (notting) - Give a useful error when there's no comps information - Fix localboot from boot disks (pjones) - Kickstart fixes (clumens) * Fri Jan 26 2007 Jeremy Katz - 11.2.0.18-1 - Fix pkgorder - Give indication of city being pointed at for timezone (clumens, #219417) * Wed Jan 24 2007 Jeremy Katz - 11.2.0.17-1 - Disable extra repo for now arts-8:1.5.6-1.fc7 ------------------ * Wed Jan 24 2007 Than Ngo - 6:1.5.6-1.fc7 - 1.5.6 aspell-es-50:0.50-14.fc7 ------------------------ * Wed Jan 24 2007 Ivana Varekova - 50:0.50-14 - spec file cleanup - fix 224147 - rawhide rebuild fails aspell-nl-51:0.1e-2.fc7 ----------------------- * Tue Jan 30 2007 Ivana Varekova - 51:0.1e-2 - remove debuginfo aspell-no-50:0.50.1-10.fc7 -------------------------- * Wed Jan 24 2007 Ivana Varekova - 50:0.50.1-10 - spec file cleanup - fix 224147 - rawhide rebuild fails aspell-pt-50:0.50-11.fc7 ------------------------ * Wed Jan 24 2007 Ivana Varekova - 50:0.50-11 - spec file cleanup - fix 224147 - rawhide rebuild fails autofs-1:5.0.1-0.rc3.13 ----------------------- * Mon Jan 29 2007 Ian Kent - 5.0.1-0.rc3.13 - make double quote handing consistent (at least as much as we can). - fix handling of trailing white space in wildcard lookup (forward port bz 199720). - check fqdn of each interface when matching export access list (bz 213700). automake15-1.5-17 ----------------- * Tue Jan 30 2007 Karsten Hopp 1.5-17 - drop obsolete check bind-31:9.3.4-2.fc7 ------------------- * Mon Jan 29 2007 Adam Tkac 31:9.3.4-2.fc7 - redirected output from bind-chroot prep and preun stages to /dev/null * Thu Jan 25 2007 Adam Tkac 31:9.3.4-1.fc7 - updated to version 9.3.4 which contains security bugfixes * Tue Jan 23 2007 Adam Tkac 31:9.3.3-5.fc7 - package bind-libbind-devel has been marked as obsolete bluez-hcidump-1.33-1.fc7 ------------------------ * Tue Jan 30 2007 David Woodhouse - 1.33-1 - update to bluez-hcidump 1.33 bluez-libs-3.9-1.fc7 -------------------- * Tue Jan 30 2007 David Woodhouse 3.9-1 - Update to bluez-libs 3.9 bluez-utils-3.9-1.fc7 --------------------- * Tue Jan 30 2007 David Woodhouse 3.9-1 - Update to bluez-utils 3.9 brltty-3.7.2-2.1.fc7 -------------------- * Tue Jan 30 2007 Tomas Janousek - 3.7.2-2.1 - quiet postinstall scriptlet, really fixes #224570 * Tue Jan 30 2007 Tomas Janousek - 3.7.2-2 - failsafe postinstall script, fixes #224570 - makefile fix - debuginfo extraction now works * Thu Jan 25 2007 Tomas Janousek - 3.7.2-1.1 - fix building with newer kernel-headers (#224149) busybox-1:1.2.2-4.fc7 --------------------- * Tue Jan 30 2007 Ivana Varekova - 1:1.2.2-4 - remove debuginfo cdrdao-1.2.2-1 -------------- * Wed Jan 24 2007 Harald Hoyer - 1.2.2-1 - version 1.2.2 - built without cdrecord-devel now cman-2.0.60-1.fc6 ----------------- * Thu Oct 05 2006 Chris Feist - 2.0.21-1 - New upstream sources - Build w/ xen deps for fence-xen control-center-1:2.17.90-3.fc7 ------------------------------ * Mon Jan 29 2007 Matthias Clasen - 2.17.90-3 - Support tracker in the search keybinding (#216315) cracklib-2.8.9-7 ---------------- * Thu Jan 25 2007 Nalin Dahyabhai - 2.8.9-7 - fix check for the existence of dictionaries when the caller specifies a location (#224347, upstream #1644628) crontabs-1.10-12.fc7 -------------------- * Mon Jan 29 2007 Marcela Maslanova 1.10-12 - link daily,weekly,monthly - rhbz#224687 * Wed Jan 24 2007 Marcela Maslanova 1.10-11 - crontabs should ignore Cfengine files, rebuilt - Resolves: rhbz#223472 * Wed Oct 11 2006 Marcela Maslanova 1.10-9 - patch (#110894) for delaying more emails in the moment curl-7.16.1-1.fc7 ----------------- * Mon Jan 29 2007 Jindrich Novy 7.16.1-1 - update to 7.16.1 desktop-printing-0.20-3.fc7 --------------------------- * Fri Jan 26 2007 Matthias Clasen 0.20-3 - Fix a crash on logout * Wed Jan 24 2007 Matthias Clasen 0.20-2 - Improve appearance of the default printer capplet device-mapper-1.02.17-1.fc7 --------------------------- * Mon Jan 29 2007 Alasdair Kergon - 1.02.17-1 - Add recent reporting options to dmsetup man page. - Add dmsetup 'help' command and update usage text. - Revise some report fields names. - Use fixed-size fields in report interface and reorder. * Fri Jan 26 2007 Alasdair Kergon - 1.02.16-1 - Update dmsetup to use new libdevmapper reporting functionality. dhcp-12:3.0.5-11.fc7 -------------------- * Tue Jan 30 2007 David Cantrell - 12:3.0.5-11 - Remove FORTIFY_SOURCE=0 leftovers from testing last week (whoops) * Tue Jan 30 2007 David Cantrell - 12:3.0.5-10 - Fix Xen networking problems with partial checksums (#221964) * Mon Jan 29 2007 David Cantrell - 12:3.0.5-9 - Remove dhcptables.pl from the source package - Mark libres.a symbols hidden (#198496) - Set DT_SONAME on libdhcp4client to libdhcp4client-VERSION.so.0 - Make function definition for dst_hmac_md5_init() match the prototype docbook-style-xsl-1.72.0-2.fc7 ------------------------------ * Wed Jan 24 2007 Tomas Mraz 1.72.0-2 - Install missing *.ent from common. dump-0.4b41-5.fc7 ----------------- * Tue Jan 30 2007 Adam Tkac 0.4b41-5.fc7 - fixed dumping of 2TB systems * Mon Jan 29 2007 Adam Tkac 0.4b41-4.fc7 - added Andrew Kroeger's patch. Immutable files are restored correctly eclipse-1:3.2.1-33.fc7 ---------------------- * Mon Jan 29 2007 Ben Konrath 3.2.1-33 - Check for features directory in sdk postun script. - Resolves: #224588. * Fri Jan 26 2007 Ben Konrath 3.2.1-32 - Fix bug in ecj [] patch. * Tue Jan 16 2007 Ben Konrath 3.2.1-31 - Add bugzilla reference to remove jars bug in comment. - Update bugzilla refereces to [] bugs. eclipse-cdt-1:3.1.1-8.fc7 ------------------------- * Mon Jan 29 2007 Jeff Johnston 3.1.1-8 - Resolves: #214624, #224644 - Rebase autotools to 0.0.7 source. enscript-1.6.4-6.fc7 -------------------- * Fri Jan 26 2007 Adam Tkac 1.6.4-6 - wrap_header patch has been improved evolution-2.9.5-4.fc7 --------------------- * Fri Jan 26 2007 Matthew Barnes - 2.9.5-4.fc7 - Compile with the -fno-strict-aliasing flag, which will hopefully improve reliability until the illegal type-punning is fixed (RH bug #224552). * Sun Jan 21 2007 Matthew Barnes - 2.9.5-3.fc7 - Revise evolution-2.7.1-no-gnome-common.patch so that we no longer have to run autoconf before building. - Revise evolution-2.5.4-fix-conduit-dir.patch so that we no longer have to run automake before building. * Wed Jan 10 2007 Matthew Barnes - 2.9.5-2.fc7 - Add patch for GNOME bug #359979 (change EMsgPort semantics). expat-1.95.8-9 -------------- * Tue Jan 30 2007 Joe Orton 1.95.8-9 - regenerate configure/libtool correctly (#199361) - strip DSP files from examples (#186889) - fix expat.h compilation with g++ -pedantic (#190244) file-4.19-2.fc7 --------------- * Thu Jan 25 2007 Martin Bacovsky - 4.19-2.fc7 - Resolves: #223297 - file does not recognize OpenOffice "native" formats - Resolves: #224344 - Magic rules should be in file-libs * Tue Jan 09 2007 Martin Bacovsky - 4.19-1.fc7 - Resolves: #208880 - Pointless file(1) error message while detecting ELF 64-bit file thanks to for patch - Resolves: #214992 - file-devel should own /usr/include/* /usr/lib/lib*.so - Resolves: #203548 - a -devel package should be split out for libmagic - upgrade to new upstream 4.19 - patch revision and cleaning - split package to file, file-devel and file-libs * Wed Aug 23 2006 Martin Bacovsky - 4.17-8 - fix recognition of perl script with embed awk (#203610) firefox-2.0.0.1-4.fc7 --------------------- * Tue Jan 30 2007 Christopher Aillon 2.0.0.1-4 - Fix the DND implementation to not grab, so it works with new GTK+. flex-2.5.33-2.fc7 ----------------- * Tue Jan 30 2007 Petr Machata - 2.5.33-2 - Add Requires:m4. * Fri Jan 19 2007 Petr Machata - 2.5.33-1 - Rebase to 2.5.33 fonts-chinese-3.03-3.fc7 ------------------------ * Wed Jan 31 2007 Caius Chance - 3.03-3.fc7 - Fixed bz#225526: [zh_*] need to add CIDFnmap file back (port el5=>rawhide) * Wed Jan 31 2007 Caius Chance - 3.03-2.fc7 - Fixed bz#225523: Cannot use Chinese fonts on Java application with JRE (porting el5 => rawhide) ftp-0.17-35.fc7 --------------- * Tue Jan 30 2007 Marcela Maslanova - 0.17-35 - nodebug package gcc-4.1.1-54 ------------ * Tue Jan 23 2007 Jakub Jelinek 4.1.1-54 - update from gcc-4_1-branch (-r120507:121069) - PRs c++/28999, libgfortran/30435, objc/30479, rtl-optimization/29329, target/30173, testsuite/12325 - OpenMP fixes (PRs middle-end/27416, middle-end/30421, middle-end/30494) gd-2.0.33-12.fc7 ---------------- * Mon Jan 29 2007 Ivana Varekova 2.0.33-12 - Resolves: #224610 CVE-2007-0455 gd buffer overrun gdb-6.6-2.fc7 ------------- * Fri Jan 26 2007 Jan Kratochvil - 6.6-2 - Backported post gdb-6.6 release PPC `show endian' fixup. - Fix displaying of numeric char arrays as strings (BZ 224128). - Simplified patches by merging upstream accepted ones into a single file. * Sat Jan 20 2007 Jan Kratochvil - 6.6-1 - Upgrade to GDB 6.6. Drop redundant patches, forward-port remaining ones. - Backported post gdb-6.6 release ia64 unwinding fixups. - Testcase for exec() from threaded program (BZ 202689). * Mon Jan 15 2007 Jan Kratochvil - 6.5-27 - Fix the testsuite results broken in 6.5-26, stop invalid testsuite runs. gfs2-utils-0.1.25-1.fc6 ----------------------- * Tue Jan 16 2007 Chris Feist 0.1.24-1 - New upstream sources. - Resolves: rhbz#222747 * Wed Jan 03 2007 Chris Feist 0.1.24-1 - Updated sources - Resolves: rhbz#218560 * Thu Dec 21 2006 Chris Feist 0.1.23-1 - Updated sources - Resolves: rhbz#218560 ghostscript-8.15.3-7.fc7 ------------------------ * Thu Jan 25 2007 Tim Waugh 8.15.3-7 - dvipdf script fixes (bug #88906). - Moved libijs.so and libgs.so into devel package (bug #203623). * Wed Jan 24 2007 Tim Waugh 8.15.3-6 - Configure with --with-drivers=ALL since the advertised default is not what gets used (bug #223819). * Thu Jan 18 2007 Tim Waugh 8.15.3-5 - Backported gxcht 64bit crash fix from GPL trunk (bug #177763). gnome-games-1:2.17.90.1-1.fc7 ----------------------------- * Wed Jan 24 2007 Matthias Clasen - 1:2.17.90.1-1 - Update to 2.17.90.1 gnome-menus-2.17.5-2.fc7 ------------------------ * Mon Jan 29 2007 Adam Jackson - 2.17.5-2 - Fix the redhat-menus Requires: to a version where there's no System.directory conflict. gnome-user-share-0.10-6.fc7 --------------------------- * Wed Jan 24 2007 Matthias Clasen 0.10-6 - Add better categories to the desktop file gnome-utils-1:2.17.91-1.fc7 --------------------------- * Wed Jan 24 2007 Matthias Clasen - 2.17.91-1 - Update to 2.17.91 gtk2-2.10.9-2.fc7 ----------------- * Tue Jan 30 2007 Matthias Clasen - 2.10.9-2 - Fix filechooser search support im-chooser-0.3.4-1.fc7 ---------------------- * Tue Jan 30 2007 Akira TAGOH - 0.3.4-1 - Translations update release. * Wed Jan 24 2007 Matthias Clasen - 0.3.3-3 - Add X-GNOME-PersonalSettings to the desktop file categories (#224159) - Use desktop-file-install indent-2.2.9-15.fc7 ------------------- * Thu Jan 25 2007 Petr Machata - 2.2.9-15 - Ville Skytta: patch for non-failing %post, %preun - Resolves: #223703 kernel-2.6.19-1.2916.fc7 ------------------------ * Tue Jan 30 2007 Dave Jones - 2.6.20rc6-git2 * Mon Jan 29 2007 Chuck Ebbert - 2.6.20rc6-git1 kexec-tools-1.101-58.fc7 ------------------------ * Thu Jan 25 2007 Neil Horman - 1.101-58.fc7 - Updating kdump.init and mkdumprd with most recent RHEL5 fixes - Fixing BuildReq to require elfutils-devel-static krb5-1.6-1 ---------- * Tue Jan 30 2007 Nalin Dahyabhai 1.6-1 - clean up quoting of command-line arguments passed to the krsh/krlogin wrapper scripts * Mon Jan 22 2007 Nalin Dahyabhai - initial update to 1.6, pre-package-reorg - move workstation daemons to a new subpackage (#81836, #216356, #217301), and make the new subpackage require xinetd (#211885) * Mon Jan 22 2007 Nalin Dahyabhai - 1.5-18 - make use of install-info more failsafe (Ville Skytt??, #223704) - preserve timestamps on shell scriptlets at %install-time libIDL-0.8.7-2.fc7 ------------------ * Tue Jan 30 2007 Matthias Clasen - 0.8.7-2 - Fix scriptlets to be failsafe (#223706) libX11-1.0.3-7.fc7 ------------------ * Mon Jan 29 2007 Adam Jackson 1.0.3-7 - Fix xim fd leak. libdhcp-1.19-3.fc7 ------------------ * Tue Jan 30 2007 David Cantrell - 1.19-3 - Rebuild * Mon Jan 29 2007 David Cantrell - 1.19-2 - Rebuild for new libdhcp4client libdrm-2.3.0-2.fc7 ------------------ * Mon Jan 29 2007 Adam Jackson 2.3.0-2 - Change default device mode to 0666. (#221545) libfontenc-1.0.4-2.fc7 ---------------------- * Wed Jan 24 2007 Adam Jackson 1.0.4-2 - Add BuildRequires on xorg-x11-font-utils to set encodings path correctly. libselinux-1.34.0-3.fc7 ----------------------- * Fri Jan 19 2007 Dan Walsh - 1.34.0-2 - Add context function to python to split context into 4 parts libsemanage-1.10.0-2.fc7 ------------------------ libwvstreams-4.2.2-3.fc7 ------------------------ * Wed Jan 24 2007 Harald Hoyer - 4.2.2-3 - fixed code for new g++ version logwatch-7.3.2-5.fc7 -------------------- * Fri Jan 26 2007 Ivana Varekova 7.3.2-5 - add sendmail, automount, amvais and cron patch lvm2-2.02.21-1.fc7 ------------------ * Tue Jan 30 2007 Alasdair Kergon - 2.02.21-1 - Fix vgsplit to handle mirrors. - Reorder fields in reporting field definitions. - Fix vgs to treat args as VGs even when PV fields are displayed. - Fix md signature check to handle both endiannesses. * Fri Jan 26 2007 Alasdair Kergon - 2.02.20-1 - Fix exit statuses of reporting tools. - Add some missing close() and fclose() return code checks. - Add devices/ignore_suspended_devices to ignore suspended dm devices. - Fix refresh_toolcontext() always to wipe persistent device filter cache. - Long-lived processes write out persistent dev cache in refresh_toolcontext(). - Streamline dm_report_field_* interface. - Update reporting man pages. - Add --clustered to man pages. - Add field definitions to report help text. * Mon Jan 22 2007 Milan Broz - 2.02.19-2 - Remove BuildRequires libtermcap-devel Resolves: #223766 mailman-3:2.1.9-5 ----------------- * Mon Jan 29 2007 Harald Hoyer - 3:2.1.9-5 - mailman-2.1.9-LC_CTYPE.patch added (bug #132495) - Resolves: rhbz#132495 make-1:3.81-3.fc7 ----------------- * Thu Jan 25 2007 Petr Machata - 1:3.81-3 - Ville Skytta: patch for non-failing %post, %preun - Resolves: #223709 * Thu Jan 25 2007 Petr Machata - 1:3.81-2 - make now restores rlimit to its original values before launching subprocess (#214033) man-pages-2.43-4.fc7 -------------------- * Mon Jan 29 2007 Ivana Varekova 2.43-4 - fix rt_sigprocmask.2 (#219074) - remove pciconfig_{read,write,iobase}.2 (#219827) - fix swapon.2 (#222493) * Fri Jan 12 2007 Ivana Varekova 2.43-3 - fix mmap2 man page - spec file cleanup * Fri Dec 08 2006 Ivana Varekova 2.43-2 - remove old/wrong patches - fix tgkill/tkill man pages inconsistency mdadm-2.6-1.fc7 --------------- * Fri Jan 26 2007 Doug Ledford - 2.6-1 - Update to latest upstream version - Remove the mdmpd daemon entirely. Now that multipath tools from the lvm/dm packages handles multipath devices well, this is no longer needed. - Various cleanups in the spec file mkinitrd-6.0.6-3 ---------------- * Mon Jan 29 2007 David Cantrell - 6.0.6-3 - Rebuild for new libdhcp4client mktemp-3:1.5-24.fc7 ------------------- * Tue Jan 30 2007 Florian La Roche - do not strip debuginfo data - add dist to release tag nasm-0.98.39-4.fc7 ------------------ * Thu Jan 25 2007 Petr Machata - 0.98.39-4 - Ville Skytta: patch for non-failing %post, %preun - Resolves: #223714 net-tools-1.60-77.fc7 --------------------- * Tue Jan 30 2007 Radek Vok??l - 1.60-77 - touch /etc/ethers (#225381) netpbm-10.35-10.fc7 ------------------- * Mon Jan 29 2007 Jindrich Novy 10.35-10 - bmptopnm won't crash with "BMPlencolormap: internal error!" (#224554) notification-daemon-0.3.6-1.fc7 ------------------------------- * Mon Jan 29 2007 Matthias Clasen - 0.3.6-1 - Update to 0.3.6 - Apply a patch by Thorsten Leemhuis to fix some spec issues ntp-4.2.4-4.fc7 --------------- * Mon Jan 29 2007 Miroslav Lichvar 4.2.4-4 - don't wake up every second (#204748) - add option to enable memory locking (#195617) - fix broadcast client - use option values in ntp-keygen - improve man pages openoffice.org-1:2.2.0-4.3 -------------------------- * Mon Jan 29 2007 Caolan McNamara - 1:2.2.0-4.3 - Resolves: rhbz#225061 openoffice.org-2.2.0.ooo73974.bridges.doublereturn.patch - Resolves: rhbz#225097 library path problems for extensions - Resolves: rhbz#225143 detect newly added printers * Sun Jan 28 2007 Caolan McNamara - 1:2.2.0-4.2 - fix CUPSManager::initialize * Sat Jan 27 2007 Caolan McNamara - 1:2.2.0-4.1 - next candidate openswan-2.4.7-1.fc7 -------------------- * Fri Jan 26 2007 Harald Hoyer - 2.4.7-1 - removed key generation from install phase - version 2.4.7 parted-1.8.2-4.fc7 ------------------ * Tue Jan 30 2007 David Cantrell - 1.8.2-4 - Patched parted.8 man page to show partition names apply to GPT disklabels as well as Mac and PC98 disklabels (#221600) passwd-0.74-2 ------------- * Tue Jan 30 2007 Tomas Mraz 0.74-2 - do not explicitly strip the binary perl-Carp-Clan-5.8-2.fc7 ------------------------ * Fri Jan 26 2007 Robin Norwood - 5.8-2 - Resolves: bz#224571 - Remove erroneous rpm 'provides' of perl(DB) php-5.2.0-9 ----------- * Tue Jan 30 2007 Joe Orton 5.2.0-9 - add php(api), php(zend-abi) provides (#221302) - package /usr/share/php and append to default include_path (#225434) php-pear-1:1.4.11-2 ------------------- * Thu Jan 04 2007 Joe Orton 1:1.4.11-2 - update to 1.4.11 pkgconfig-1:0.21-3.fc7 ---------------------- * Mon Jan 29 2007 Matthias Clasen - 1:0.21-3 - Fix a problem where calling glib-config can lead to an infinite loop pm-utils-0.19.1-6.fc7 --------------------- * Tue Jan 30 2007 Jeremy Katz - 0.19.1-6 - build so that hooks run properly on resume; fix syntax error in functions-intel (pjones) * Fri Jan 26 2007 Phil Knirsch - 0.19.1-5 - Fixed problem with changes in 10NetworkManager hook (#224556) pykickstart-0.93-1.fc7 ---------------------- * Thu Jan 25 2007 Chris Lumens - 0.93-1 - Add support for FC3, RHEL4, and RHEL5. - The key command was not supported until after FC6. - Accept more strings in stringToVersion. sed-4.1.5-7.fc7 --------------- * Thu Jan 25 2007 Petr Machata - 4.1.5-7 - Ville Skytta: patch for non-failing %post, %preun - Resolves: #223716 setroubleshoot-1.8.15-1.fc7 --------------------------- * Fri Jan 12 2007 Dan Walsh - 1.8.15-1 - Update po - Additional Plugins - Cleanup Plugins sound-juicer-2.16.2-2.fc7 ------------------------- * Thu Jan 25 2007 Alexander Larsson - 2.16.2-2 - Remove hicolor icon theme cache (#223483) spamassassin-3.1.7-6.fc7 ------------------------ * Sun Jan 28 2007 Warren Togami 3.1.7-6 - explicit requires on perl(HTTP::Date) and perl(LWP::UserAgent) (Bug #193100) squid-7:2.6.STABLE9-1.fc7 ------------------------- * Mon Jan 29 2007 Martin Bacovsky - 7:2.6.STABLE9-1.fc7 - update to the latest upstream squirrelmail-1.4.8-4.fc6 ------------------------ * Mon Jan 22 2007 Warren Togami 1.4.8-4 - Clean up .orig files (#223648) star-1.5a76-2.fc7 ----------------- * Mon Jan 29 2007 Peter Vrabec 1.5a76-2 - fix buildreq. and rebuild * Thu Jan 18 2007 Jan Cholasta 1.5a76-1 - upgrade * Tue Aug 08 2006 Peter Vrabec 1.5a75-1 - upgrade symlinks-1.2-26.fc7 ------------------- * Tue Jan 30 2007 Florian La Roche - 1.2-26 - do not strip away debuginfo * Thu Jan 18 2007 Tim Waugh - 1.2-25 - Build with LFS support (bug #206407). * Wed Jul 12 2006 Jesse Keating - 1.2-24.2.2 - rebuild sysfsutils-2.1.0-1.fc7 ---------------------- * Sat Sep 29 2007 Jarod Wilson - 2.1.0-1 - Update to upstream release 2.1.0 sysklogd-1.4.1-44.fc7 --------------------- * Mon Jan 29 2007 Peter Vrabec 1.4.1-44 - fix scriptlets sysstat-7.0.3-3.fc7 ------------------- * Tue Jan 30 2007 Ivana Varekova - 7.0.3-3 - remove -s flag * Mon Dec 18 2006 Ivana Varekova - 7.0.3-1 - update to 7.0.3 * Tue Nov 21 2006 Ivana Varekova - 7.0.2-3 - update NFS mount statistic patch system-config-boot-0.2.14-1.fc7 ------------------------------- * Mon Jan 29 2007 Harald Hoyer - 0.2.14-1.fc7 - more build requirements * Mon Oct 09 2006 Harald Hoyer - 0.2.13-1.fc7 - translation update - Resolves: rhbz#216607 thunderbird-1.5.0.9-7.fc7 ------------------------- * Tue Jan 30 2007 Christopher Aillon 1.5.0.9-7 - Updated cursor position patch from tagoh to fix issue with "jumping" cursor when in a textfield with tabs. * Tue Jan 30 2007 Christopher Aillon 1.5.0.9-6 - Fix the DND implementation to not grab, so it works with new GTK+. totem-2.17.90-1.fc7 ------------------- * Mon Jan 29 2007 - Bastien Nocera - 2.17.90-1 - Make the -devel package own /usr/include/totem and below - Resolves: #212093 - Update homepage, and download URLs - Update to 2.17.90, remove obsolete patch traceroute-3:2.0.3-1.1.fc7 -------------------------- * Mon Jan 29 2007 Martin Bacovsky - 3:2.0.3-1.1.fc7 - Resolves: #225063: Re-add Epoch to traceroute units-1.86-3.fc7 ---------------- * Wed Jan 24 2007 Harald Hoyer - 1.86-3 - fixed previous fix for rhbz#220533 vixie-cron-4:4.1-73.fc7 ----------------------- * Mon Jan 29 2007 Marcela Maslanova - 4:4.1-73 - symlinks again - change in symlinks.patch - rhbz#225078 vsftpd-2.0.5-14.fc7 ------------------- * Tue Jan 30 2007 Maros Barabas - 2.0.5-14 - remove file upload permission problem - change name of patch vsfptd-2.0.3-user_config - Resolves #190193 webalizer-2.01_10-31 -------------------- * Mon Jan 29 2007 Joe Orton 2.01_10-31 - rebuild to pick up new db4 soname words-3.0-10.fc7 ---------------- * Wed Jan 24 2007 Karel Zak - 3.0-10 - fix regex that removes possessives ('s) xdelta-1.1.4-1.fc7 ------------------ * Tue Jan 30 2007 Adam Tkac 1.1.4-1.fc7 - version 1.1.4 has been marked as final 1.1.4 version * Mon Jan 29 2007 Adam Tkac 1.1.4pre1-1.fc7 - started using dist macro - updated to 1.1.4pre1 xen-3.0.4-4.fc7 --------------- * Tue Jan 30 2007 Daniel P. Berrange - 3.0.4-4.fc7 - Fix pygrub memory corruption * Tue Jan 23 2007 Daniel P. Berrange - 3.0.4-3.fc7 - Added PVFB back compat for FC5/6 guests * Mon Jan 22 2007 Daniel P. Berrange - 3.0.4-2.fc7 - Ensure the arch-x86 header files are included in xen-devel package - Bring back patch to move /var/xen/dump to /var/lib/xen/dump - Make /var/log/xen mode 0700 xorg-x11-apps-7.1-4.fc7 ----------------------- * Tue Jan 30 2007 Adam Jackson 7.1-4 - Fix man page globs and rebuild for FC7. xorg-x11-drv-i810-1.6.5-11.fc7 ------------------------------ * Tue Jan 30 2007 Jeremy Katz - 1.6.5-11 - update modesetting driver to git snapshot from today xorg-x11-drv-nsc-2.8.1-3.fc7 ---------------------------- * Wed Jan 24 2007 Adam Jackson 2.8.1-2 - nsc-2.8.1-noexecstack.patch: Mark the asm file as execstack-clean for selinux conformance. (#220749) - nsc-2.8.1-xserver12-compat.patch: Build fix for new X server sdk. xorg-x11-drv-savage-2.1.2-1.fc7 ------------------------------- * Mon Jan 29 2007 Adam Jackson 2.1.2-1 - Update to 2.1.2 xorg-x11-drv-trident-1.2.3-2.fc7 -------------------------------- * Mon Jan 29 2007 Adam Jackson 1.2.3-2 - Rebuild for 6 to 7 upgrade path * Wed Jan 24 2007 Adam Jackson 1.2.3-1 - Update to 1.2.3 xorg-x11-server-1.2.0-3.fc7 --------------------------- * Mon Jan 29 2007 Adam Jackson 1.2.0-3 - Fix MMX check on AMD CPUs. (#222332) - Fix Xephyr keysym init on LP64. (#224311) * Wed Jan 24 2007 Adam Jackson 1.2.0-2 - Delete ModulePath lines rather than attempt to munge them. (#186338) xorg-x11-server-utils-7.1-5.fc7 ------------------------------- * Tue Jan 30 2007 Adam Jackson 7.1-5 - Fix man page globs and rebuild for FC7. xorg-x11-utils-7.1-3.fc7 ------------------------ * Tue Jan 30 2007 Adam Jackson 7.1-3 - Fix man page glob and rebuild for FC7. xorg-x11-xfwp-1.0.1-4.fc7 ------------------------- * Tue Jan 30 2007 Adam Jackson 1.0.1-4 - Fix man page globs and rebuild for FC7. xorg-x11-xsm-1.0.2-5.fc7 ------------------------ * Tue Jan 30 2007 Adam Jackson 1.0.2-5 - Fix man page globs and rebuild for FC7. Broken deps for s390 ---------------------------------------------------------- systemtap - 0.5.10-1.fc7.s390 requires kernel >= 0:2.6.9-11 systemtap-runtime - 0.5.10-1.fc7.s390 requires kernel >= 0:2.6.9-11 Broken deps for s390x ---------------------------------------------------------- nautilus-cd-burner - 2.17.6-1.fc7.s390x requires cdrdao From pbrobinson at gmail.com Wed Jan 31 12:15:29 2007 From: pbrobinson at gmail.com (Peter Robinson) Date: Wed, 31 Jan 2007 12:15:29 +0000 Subject: rawhide report: 20070131 changes In-Reply-To: <200701311149.l0VBnbLM020755@hs20-bc2-6.build.redhat.com> References: <200701311149.l0VBnbLM020755@hs20-bc2-6.build.redhat.com> Message-ID: <5256d0b0701310415j4bf99476yc2c89561e3b074b1@mail.gmail.com> > xorg-x11-drv-i810-1.6.5-11.fc7 > ------------------------------ > * Tue Jan 30 2007 Jeremy Katz - 1.6.5-11 > - update modesetting driver to git snapshot from today Any chance of a test update of this for FC6? Pete From fedora at camperquake.de Wed Jan 31 14:27:38 2007 From: fedora at camperquake.de (Ralf Ertzinger) Date: Wed, 31 Jan 2007 15:27:38 +0100 Subject: Kernel symbol addresses in System.map do not match kernel Message-ID: <20070131152738.679667fb@banea.int.addix.net> Hi. I noticed today that the symbol addresses given in /boot/System.map- do not match the running kernel (given that the running kernel and System.map match, of course). Example: $ uname -a Linux localhost 2.6.19-1.2914.fc7 #1 SMP Fri Jan 26 18:42:25 EST 2007 i686 i686 i386 GNU/Linux $ grep do_execve /boot/System.map-2.6.19-1.2914.fc7 c107d1a0 T do_execve $ grep do_execve /proc/kallsyms c047d1a0 T do_execve $ The address from /proc/kallsyms is the correct one. Is this intentional in some way? From mmcgrath at fedoraproject.org Wed Jan 31 15:26:26 2007 From: mmcgrath at fedoraproject.org (Mike McGrath) Date: Wed, 31 Jan 2007 09:26:26 -0600 Subject: Smolt: Fedora Hardware Profiler Message-ID: <3237e4410701310726y77ac4fcelbb84f2c029545a60@mail.gmail.com> Hey guys, smolt is in a state now where it can be released and tested by the general public. Currently smolt-firstboot has firstboot integration with opt in/out. My question for the dev's is: Do we as a community want to include this by default in Fedora 7? For more information on smolt see: https://hosted.fedoraproject.org/projects/smolt/wiki and https://hosted.fedoraproject.org/projects/smolt/wiki/Scope Current stats can be found at: http://smolt.fedoraproject.org/stats You can have your machine send its stats by installing smolt with yum and typing "smoltSendProfile" *Note: this is not LHCP, which is going to be a much larger project. Smolt has a much smaller scope and will ultimately (hopefully) be replaced by LHCP when it is ready. -Mike From opensource at till.name Wed Jan 31 15:46:36 2007 From: opensource at till.name (Till Maas) Date: Wed, 31 Jan 2007 16:46:36 +0100 Subject: Smolt: Fedora Hardware Profiler In-Reply-To: <3237e4410701310726y77ac4fcelbb84f2c029545a60@mail.gmail.com> References: <3237e4410701310726y77ac4fcelbb84f2c029545a60@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <200701311646.54511.opensource@till.name> On Wednesday 31 January 2007 16:26, Mike McGrath wrote: > Current stats can be found at: > > http://smolt.fedoraproject.org/stats I want to propose to gather and provide statistics about installed packages and maybe version, too. Regards, Till -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 189 bytes Desc: not available URL: From rc040203 at freenet.de Wed Jan 31 16:08:21 2007 From: rc040203 at freenet.de (Ralf Corsepius) Date: Wed, 31 Jan 2007 17:08:21 +0100 Subject: Smolt: Fedora Hardware Profiler In-Reply-To: <3237e4410701310726y77ac4fcelbb84f2c029545a60@mail.gmail.com> References: <3237e4410701310726y77ac4fcelbb84f2c029545a60@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <1170259702.5838.460.camel@mccallum.corsepiu.local> On Wed, 2007-01-31 at 09:26 -0600, Mike McGrath wrote: > Hey guys, smolt is in a state now where it can be released and tested > by the general public. Currently smolt-firstboot has firstboot > integration with opt in/out. My question for the dev's is: > > Do we as a community want to include this by default in Fedora 7? OK, now that you have asked, you'll be prepared to facing a very clear answer: NO, NEVER. It must be strictly optional and even then, it should require explicit interactive user activation. I am not willing to accept any unsupervised, non-opt-in data transmission from any package in Fedora and will prepare a proposal to change the Fedora Package Guidelines accordingly. Ralf From mmcgrath at fedoraproject.org Wed Jan 31 16:11:28 2007 From: mmcgrath at fedoraproject.org (Mike McGrath) Date: Wed, 31 Jan 2007 10:11:28 -0600 Subject: Smolt: Fedora Hardware Profiler In-Reply-To: <1170259702.5838.460.camel@mccallum.corsepiu.local> References: <3237e4410701310726y77ac4fcelbb84f2c029545a60@mail.gmail.com> <1170259702.5838.460.camel@mccallum.corsepiu.local> Message-ID: <3237e4410701310811w82a9523g3dd29f46683f7072@mail.gmail.com> On 1/31/07, Ralf Corsepius wrote: > On Wed, 2007-01-31 at 09:26 -0600, Mike McGrath wrote: > > Hey guys, smolt is in a state now where it can be released and tested > > by the general public. Currently smolt-firstboot has firstboot > > integration with opt in/out. My question for the dev's is: > > > > Do we as a community want to include this by default in Fedora 7? > OK, now that you have asked, you'll be prepared to facing a very clear > answer: NO, NEVER. > > It must be strictly optional and even then, it should require explicit > interactive user activation. > > I am not willing to accept any unsupervised, non-opt-in data > transmission from any package in Fedora and will prepare a proposal to > change the Fedora Package Guidelines accordingly. > > Ralf > Lucky for me then, I based the firstboot integration off of the EULA. Its very easy to opt out of. -Mike From bdwheele at indiana.edu Wed Jan 31 16:16:12 2007 From: bdwheele at indiana.edu (Brian Wheeler) Date: Wed, 31 Jan 2007 11:16:12 -0500 Subject: Smolt: Fedora Hardware Profiler In-Reply-To: <3237e4410701310811w82a9523g3dd29f46683f7072@mail.gmail.com> References: <3237e4410701310726y77ac4fcelbb84f2c029545a60@mail.gmail.com> <1170259702.5838.460.camel@mccallum.corsepiu.local> <3237e4410701310811w82a9523g3dd29f46683f7072@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <1170260172.14844.33.camel@wombat.dlib.indiana.edu> On Wed, 2007-01-31 at 10:11 -0600, Mike McGrath wrote: > On 1/31/07, Ralf Corsepius wrote: > > On Wed, 2007-01-31 at 09:26 -0600, Mike McGrath wrote: > > > Hey guys, smolt is in a state now where it can be released and tested > > > by the general public. Currently smolt-firstboot has firstboot > > > integration with opt in/out. My question for the dev's is: > > > > > > Do we as a community want to include this by default in Fedora 7? > > OK, now that you have asked, you'll be prepared to facing a very clear > > answer: NO, NEVER. > > > > It must be strictly optional and even then, it should require explicit > > interactive user activation. > > > > I am not willing to accept any unsupervised, non-opt-in data > > transmission from any package in Fedora and will prepare a proposal to > > change the Fedora Package Guidelines accordingly. > > > > Ralf > > > > Lucky for me then, I based the firstboot integration off of the EULA. > Its very easy to opt out of. > Wouldn't it be better as an opt-in? Sure, you'll probably get less data due to uninformed/lazy/security conscience/or tinfoil hat types not opting in (I might be one of the above), but you'll probably make more people feel comfortable with adding it... Brian From fedora at camperquake.de Wed Jan 31 16:16:27 2007 From: fedora at camperquake.de (Ralf Ertzinger) Date: Wed, 31 Jan 2007 17:16:27 +0100 Subject: Smolt: Fedora Hardware Profiler In-Reply-To: <3237e4410701310811w82a9523g3dd29f46683f7072@mail.gmail.com> References: <3237e4410701310726y77ac4fcelbb84f2c029545a60@mail.gmail.com> <1170259702.5838.460.camel@mccallum.corsepiu.local> <3237e4410701310811w82a9523g3dd29f46683f7072@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <20070131171627.69256ab1@banea.int.addix.net> Hi. On Wed, 31 Jan 2007 10:11:28 -0600, Mike McGrath wrote: > Lucky for me then, I based the firstboot integration off of the EULA. > Its very easy to opt out of. It should not be easy to out out of. It might be acceptable to be easy to opt in into. From mmcgrath at fedoraproject.org Wed Jan 31 16:20:49 2007 From: mmcgrath at fedoraproject.org (Mike McGrath) Date: Wed, 31 Jan 2007 10:20:49 -0600 Subject: Smolt: Fedora Hardware Profiler In-Reply-To: <20070131171627.69256ab1@banea.int.addix.net> References: <3237e4410701310726y77ac4fcelbb84f2c029545a60@mail.gmail.com> <1170259702.5838.460.camel@mccallum.corsepiu.local> <3237e4410701310811w82a9523g3dd29f46683f7072@mail.gmail.com> <20070131171627.69256ab1@banea.int.addix.net> Message-ID: <3237e4410701310820x3def333dh90c9e74c56863dc5@mail.gmail.com> On 1/31/07, Ralf Ertzinger wrote: > > Lucky for me then, I based the firstboot integration off of the EULA. > > Its very easy to opt out of. > > It should not be easy to out out of. It might be acceptable to be easy to > opt in into. > Meh, if someone is clicking next, next, next. That's their problem. Try out the firstboot method first... It defaults to no with a "are you sure you mean no" dialog. I'm sure the verbage could be made more clear... Seriously, try it first. -Mike From jason.corley at gmail.com Wed Jan 31 16:26:22 2007 From: jason.corley at gmail.com (Jason Corley) Date: Wed, 31 Jan 2007 11:26:22 -0500 Subject: export restrictions in EULA In-Reply-To: <3118d8de0701310816k78a3a235w3880afd07a5ac264@mail.gmail.com> References: <3118d8de0701310816k78a3a235w3880afd07a5ac264@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <3118d8de0701310826y51c9d403jc388c1c68201d9e1@mail.gmail.com> I'm not sure what list this is really appropriate for, so apologies if this is the wrong forum. I noticed that the Fedora EULA still include notes about export restrictions, specifically: "... understands that certain of the software are subject to export controls under the U.S. Commerce Departments Export Administration Regulations (EAR) ..." Cuba, Iran, North Korea, etc. are all restricted areas. Out of curiosity how is that being enforced on the Fedora infrastructure end, and how is that restriction handling passed to mirrors? Is each mirror required to implement their own set of restrictions? Does a Fedora mirror server in Canada (or some other non-restricted country) sidestep that issue? If so, doesn't that basically make the EULA clause moot (from a once the dam is broken kinda perspective)? Jason From notting at redhat.com Wed Jan 31 16:53:07 2007 From: notting at redhat.com (Bill Nottingham) Date: Wed, 31 Jan 2007 11:53:07 -0500 Subject: Smolt: Fedora Hardware Profiler In-Reply-To: <3237e4410701310726y77ac4fcelbb84f2c029545a60@mail.gmail.com> References: <3237e4410701310726y77ac4fcelbb84f2c029545a60@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <20070131165307.GD26542@nostromo.devel.redhat.com> Mike McGrath (mmcgrath at fedoraproject.org) said: > *Note: this is not LHCP, which is going to be a much larger project. > Smolt has a much smaller scope and will ultimately (hopefully) be > replaced by LHCP when it is ready. So, the issue I see is that the data appears to be stored as HAL descriptive strings - these could change over time. Storing it as vendor/id pairs might be more flexible. (Or is this actually done that way, and the display on the website is what's doing the conversion?) Bill From mmcgrath at fedoraproject.org Wed Jan 31 16:57:27 2007 From: mmcgrath at fedoraproject.org (Mike McGrath) Date: Wed, 31 Jan 2007 10:57:27 -0600 Subject: Smolt: Fedora Hardware Profiler In-Reply-To: <20070131165307.GD26542@nostromo.devel.redhat.com> References: <3237e4410701310726y77ac4fcelbb84f2c029545a60@mail.gmail.com> <20070131165307.GD26542@nostromo.devel.redhat.com> Message-ID: <3237e4410701310857o1f808139m7965f99f93ff6f79@mail.gmail.com> On 1/31/07, Bill Nottingham wrote: > Mike McGrath (mmcgrath at fedoraproject.org) said: > > *Note: this is not LHCP, which is going to be a much larger project. > > Smolt has a much smaller scope and will ultimately (hopefully) be > > replaced by LHCP when it is ready. > > So, the issue I see is that the data appears to be stored as HAL > descriptive strings - these could change over time. Storing > it as vendor/id pairs might be more flexible. > > (Or is this actually done that way, and the display on the website > is what's doing the conversion?) > They're presently being pulled from the hardware object created using the RHN client tools. I'll look to see what it would take to get vendor/id pairs. -Mike From rc040203 at freenet.de Wed Jan 31 17:15:51 2007 From: rc040203 at freenet.de (Ralf Corsepius) Date: Wed, 31 Jan 2007 18:15:51 +0100 Subject: Smolt: Fedora Hardware Profiler In-Reply-To: <3237e4410701310811w82a9523g3dd29f46683f7072@mail.gmail.com> References: <3237e4410701310726y77ac4fcelbb84f2c029545a60@mail.gmail.com> <1170259702.5838.460.camel@mccallum.corsepiu.local> <3237e4410701310811w82a9523g3dd29f46683f7072@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <1170263751.5838.499.camel@mccallum.corsepiu.local> On Wed, 2007-01-31 at 10:11 -0600, Mike McGrath wrote: > On 1/31/07, Ralf Corsepius wrote: > > On Wed, 2007-01-31 at 09:26 -0600, Mike McGrath wrote: > > > Hey guys, smolt is in a state now where it can be released and tested > > > by the general public. Currently smolt-firstboot has firstboot > > > integration with opt in/out. My question for the dev's is: > > > > > > Do we as a community want to include this by default in Fedora 7? > > OK, now that you have asked, you'll be prepared to facing a very clear > > answer: NO, NEVER. > > > > It must be strictly optional and even then, it should require explicit > > interactive user activation. > > > > I am not willing to accept any unsupervised, non-opt-in data > > transmission from any package in Fedora and will prepare a proposal to > > change the Fedora Package Guidelines accordingly. > > > > Ralf > > > > Lucky for me then, I based the firstboot integration off of the EULA. > Its very easy to opt out of. It must be opt-in. 1. May-be you should consider to talk to RH legal. In many parts of this world opt-out is ILLEGAL. 2. It should be is a matter of fairness to make it opt-in. 3. In many parts of this world SPY-WARE like yours is a very hot political topic. You are at risk at exposing Fedora to be subjects to such flames. Even Microsoft has learned their lessons and made "registration opt-in", now you are committing the same FAULT. Ralf From tonynelson at georgeanelson.com Wed Jan 31 17:16:02 2007 From: tonynelson at georgeanelson.com (Tony Nelson) Date: Wed, 31 Jan 2007 12:16:02 -0500 Subject: Smolt: Fedora Hardware Profiler In-Reply-To: <3237e4410701310820x3def333dh90c9e74c56863dc5@mail.gmail.com> References: <3237e4410701310726y77ac4fcelbb84f2c029545a60@mail.gmail.com> <1170259702.5838.460.camel@mccallum.corsepiu.local> <3237e4410701310811w82a9523g3dd29f46683f7072@mail.gmail.com> <20070131171627.69256ab1@banea.int.addix.net> <3237e4410701310820x3def333dh90c9e74c56863dc5@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: At 10:20 AM -0600 1/31/07, Mike McGrath wrote: >On 1/31/07, Ralf Ertzinger wrote: >> > Lucky for me then, I based the firstboot integration off of the EULA. >> > Its very easy to opt out of. >> >> It should not be easy to out out of. It might be acceptable to be easy to >> opt in into. >> > >Meh, if someone is clicking next, next, next. That's their problem. >Try out the firstboot method first... It defaults to no with a "are >you sure you mean no" dialog. I'm sure the verbage could be made more >clear... Seriously, try it first. I haven't tried it. I probably wouldn't freak if it came up on first boot. How about the smolt package having a list of "well known" hardware: hardware that is already known to work, or to not work for good reason. If the computer has only "well known" hardware, don't bother the user at all. (Unless some of it is known to be bad; it might be polite to mention that.) If there is unlisted hardware, offer to query a server to find out how "interesting" it is, in order to help the user make an informed choice. (Be sure to mention that /all/ the hardware will be reported on opt-in, in case of interactions.) Even secretive people might want to opt in if they thought it would really help, and they'd surely be less offended in the first place. -- ____________________________________________________________________ TonyN.:' ' From mmcgrath at fedoraproject.org Wed Jan 31 17:20:27 2007 From: mmcgrath at fedoraproject.org (Mike McGrath) Date: Wed, 31 Jan 2007 11:20:27 -0600 Subject: Smolt: Fedora Hardware Profiler In-Reply-To: <1170263751.5838.499.camel@mccallum.corsepiu.local> References: <3237e4410701310726y77ac4fcelbb84f2c029545a60@mail.gmail.com> <1170259702.5838.460.camel@mccallum.corsepiu.local> <3237e4410701310811w82a9523g3dd29f46683f7072@mail.gmail.com> <1170263751.5838.499.camel@mccallum.corsepiu.local> Message-ID: <3237e4410701310920p42ae438bu655f4c6499a0438@mail.gmail.com> On 1/31/07, Ralf Corsepius wrote: > It must be opt-in. > > 1. May-be you should consider to talk to RH legal. > In many parts of this world opt-out is ILLEGAL. > Ralf, seriously. We get it. Use firstboot. You'll see that it is in fact opt-in. You're arguing for something to stay the way it is with no one disagreeing with you. -Mike From rc040203 at freenet.de Wed Jan 31 17:24:30 2007 From: rc040203 at freenet.de (Ralf Corsepius) Date: Wed, 31 Jan 2007 18:24:30 +0100 Subject: Smolt: Fedora Hardware Profiler In-Reply-To: <3237e4410701310920p42ae438bu655f4c6499a0438@mail.gmail.com> References: <3237e4410701310726y77ac4fcelbb84f2c029545a60@mail.gmail.com> <1170259702.5838.460.camel@mccallum.corsepiu.local> <3237e4410701310811w82a9523g3dd29f46683f7072@mail.gmail.com> <1170263751.5838.499.camel@mccallum.corsepiu.local> <3237e4410701310920p42ae438bu655f4c6499a0438@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <1170264271.5838.504.camel@mccallum.corsepiu.local> On Wed, 2007-01-31 at 11:20 -0600, Mike McGrath wrote: > On 1/31/07, Ralf Corsepius wrote: > > It must be opt-in. > > > > 1. May-be you should consider to talk to RH legal. > > In many parts of this world opt-out is ILLEGAL. > > > > Ralf, seriously. We get it. Use firstboot. You'll see that it is in > fact opt-in. You're arguing for something to stay the way it is with > no one disagreeing with you. Where is the button/switch to disable it? Show us the part of your sources. Ralf From dorin.lazar.liste at gmail.com Wed Jan 31 17:28:15 2007 From: dorin.lazar.liste at gmail.com (Dorin Lazar) Date: Wed, 31 Jan 2007 19:28:15 +0200 Subject: F7 KDE spin, package splitting In-Reply-To: <13dbfe4f0701302108i43257020u4ac2e394bdb2ac6c@mail.gmail.com> References: <45A2BABB.2090902@math.unl.edu> <13dbfe4f0701302108i43257020u4ac2e394bdb2ac6c@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <200701311928.15180.spooky@localhost.localdomain> On Wednesday 31 January 2007 07:08, Chitlesh GOORAH wrote: > How about: > - kruler > - kcolorchooser > - kcoloredit > - kiconedit > from kdegraphics ? > > These little apps are not useful for the norma joe neither for an admin. To a regular joe, maybe not. For an admin, definitely not. For a developer, yes. It will save 250k from a package. While at the same time lots of additional GNOME packages are added to the distribution. I think that cutting short the KDE packages will be just a waste. Dorin From dennis at ausil.us Wed Jan 31 17:30:37 2007 From: dennis at ausil.us (Dennis Gilmore) Date: Wed, 31 Jan 2007 11:30:37 -0600 Subject: Smolt: Fedora Hardware Profiler In-Reply-To: <1170263751.5838.499.camel@mccallum.corsepiu.local> References: <3237e4410701310726y77ac4fcelbb84f2c029545a60@mail.gmail.com> <3237e4410701310811w82a9523g3dd29f46683f7072@mail.gmail.com> <1170263751.5838.499.camel@mccallum.corsepiu.local> Message-ID: <200701311130.37925.dennis@ausil.us> On Wednesday 31 January 2007 11:15, Ralf Corsepius wrote: > > It must be opt-in. > > 1. May-be you should consider to talk to RH legal. > In many parts of this world opt-out is ILLEGAL. > > 2. It should be is a matter of fairness to make it opt-in. > > 3. In many parts of this world SPY-WARE like yours is a very hot > political topic. You are at risk at exposing Fedora to be subjects to > such flames. Even Microsoft has learned their lessons and made > "registration opt-in", now you are committing the same FAULT. Ralf, it is not registration, it is not spy ware. it is a voluntary hardware profile. there is no way to know that a profile is yours unless you give me your unique hardware id that is generated on your system at package install time. This will help fedora in many ways. it is opt-in you can choose to install or not install smolt. you can choose to sumbit a profile at any time or you can chose to never submit a profile. Right now what we would like to do is have at firstboot time a screen where the user can say yes send my hardware profile in. nothing more nothing less. Feel free to look at the code. there is no package list sent, no ip, no anything that can be associated to you without you giving me your id. Say you are having a weird X issue you could give your ID to the x team and they can look at your profile and try to replicate it to determine the bug, fix, and possibly test it. from http://publictest4.fedora.redhat.com/raw UUID cc4dfded-42d8-489d-af68-c2ff14438d1c OS Aurora SPARC Linux release 2.90 (Aurora Corona) platform sparc64 bogomips 2001.0 systemMemory 16229 systemSwap 3996 CPUVendor sun4v - ultrasparc t1 (niagara) numCPUs 32 CPUSpeed 1000.0 language en_US.UTF-8 defaultRunlevel 3 vendor sun system Sun Fire(TM) T1000 Bus Class Driver Description pci OTHER unknown Broadcom|EPB PCI-Express to PCI-X Bridge pci OTHER tg3 Broadcom Corporation|NetXtreme BCM5714 Gigabit Ethernet MISC NETWORK unknown Networking Interface pci OTHER tg3 Broadcom Corporation|NetXtreme BCM5714 Gigabit Ethernet MISC NETWORK unknown Networking Interface pci OTHER unknown Broadcom|HT1000 PCI/PCI-X bridge pci OTHER tg3 Broadcom Corporation|NetXtreme BCM5704 Gigabit Ethernet MISC NETWORK unknown Networking Interface pci OTHER tg3 Broadcom Corporation|NetXtreme BCM5704 Gigabit Ethernet MISC NETWORK unknown Networking Interface pci SCSI mptsas LSI Logic / Symbios Logic|SAS1064 PCI-X Fusion-MPT SAS scsi HD unknown ATA|ST3320620AS thats one of my systems that is all that gets sent. And again to re-iterate it is entirely voluntary "you choose" to submit or not your profile -- ?,-._|\ ? ?Dennis Gilmore, RHCE /Aussie\ ? Proud Australian \_.--._/ ? | Aurora | Fedora | ? ? ? v ? ? From dennis at ausil.us Wed Jan 31 17:32:03 2007 From: dennis at ausil.us (Dennis Gilmore) Date: Wed, 31 Jan 2007 11:32:03 -0600 Subject: Smolt: Fedora Hardware Profiler In-Reply-To: <1170263751.5838.499.camel@mccallum.corsepiu.local> References: <3237e4410701310726y77ac4fcelbb84f2c029545a60@mail.gmail.com> <3237e4410701310811w82a9523g3dd29f46683f7072@mail.gmail.com> <1170263751.5838.499.camel@mccallum.corsepiu.local> Message-ID: <200701311132.03921.dennis@ausil.us> On Wednesday 31 January 2007 11:15, Ralf Corsepius wrote: > > It must be opt-in. > > 1. May-be you should consider to talk to RH legal. > In many parts of this world opt-out is ILLEGAL. > > 2. It should be is a matter of fairness to make it opt-in. > > 3. In many parts of this world SPY-WARE like yours is a very hot > political topic. You are at risk at exposing Fedora to be subjects to > such flames. Even Microsoft has learned their lessons and made > "registration opt-in", now you are committing the same FAULT. Ralf, it is not registration, it is not spy ware. it is a voluntary hardware profile. there is no way to know that a profile is yours unless you give me your unique hardware id that is generated on your system at package install time. This will help fedora in many ways. it is opt-in you can choose to install or not install smolt. you can choose to sumbit a profile at any time or you can chose to never submit a profile. Right now what we would like to do is have at firstboot time a screen where the user can say yes send my hardware profile in. nothing more nothing less. Feel free to look at the code. there is no package list sent, no ip, no anything that can be associated to you without you giving me your id. Say you are having a weird X issue you could give your ID to the x team and they can look at your profile and try to replicate it to determine the bug, fix, and possibly test it. from http://publictest4.fedora.redhat.com/raw UUID cc4dfded-42d8-489d-af68-c2ff14438d1c OS Aurora SPARC Linux release 2.90 (Aurora Corona) platform sparc64 bogomips 2001.0 systemMemory 16229 systemSwap 3996 CPUVendor sun4v - ultrasparc t1 (niagara) numCPUs 32 CPUSpeed 1000.0 language en_US.UTF-8 defaultRunlevel 3 vendor sun system Sun Fire(TM) T1000 Bus Class Driver Description pci OTHER unknown Broadcom|EPB PCI-Express to PCI-X Bridge pci OTHER tg3 Broadcom Corporation|NetXtreme BCM5714 Gigabit Ethernet MISC NETWORK unknown Networking Interface pci OTHER tg3 Broadcom Corporation|NetXtreme BCM5714 Gigabit Ethernet MISC NETWORK unknown Networking Interface pci OTHER unknown Broadcom|HT1000 PCI/PCI-X bridge pci OTHER tg3 Broadcom Corporation|NetXtreme BCM5704 Gigabit Ethernet MISC NETWORK unknown Networking Interface pci OTHER tg3 Broadcom Corporation|NetXtreme BCM5704 Gigabit Ethernet MISC NETWORK unknown Networking Interface pci SCSI mptsas LSI Logic / Symbios Logic|SAS1064 PCI-X Fusion-MPT SAS scsi HD unknown ATA|ST3320620AS thats one of my systems that is all that gets sent. And again to re-iterate it is entirely voluntary "you choose" to submit or not your profile -- ?,-._|\ ? ?Dennis Gilmore, RHCE /Aussie\ ? Proud Australian \_.--._/ ? | Aurora | Fedora | ? ? ? v ? ? From mmcgrath at fedoraproject.org Wed Jan 31 17:32:47 2007 From: mmcgrath at fedoraproject.org (Mike McGrath) Date: Wed, 31 Jan 2007 11:32:47 -0600 Subject: Smolt: Fedora Hardware Profiler In-Reply-To: <1170264271.5838.504.camel@mccallum.corsepiu.local> References: <3237e4410701310726y77ac4fcelbb84f2c029545a60@mail.gmail.com> <1170259702.5838.460.camel@mccallum.corsepiu.local> <3237e4410701310811w82a9523g3dd29f46683f7072@mail.gmail.com> <1170263751.5838.499.camel@mccallum.corsepiu.local> <3237e4410701310920p42ae438bu655f4c6499a0438@mail.gmail.com> <1170264271.5838.504.camel@mccallum.corsepiu.local> Message-ID: <3237e4410701310932u231e8f91t1912a7e2c790999a@mail.gmail.com> On 1/31/07, Ralf Corsepius wrote: > On Wed, 2007-01-31 at 11:20 -0600, Mike McGrath wrote: > > On 1/31/07, Ralf Corsepius wrote: > > > It must be opt-in. > > > > > > 1. May-be you should consider to talk to RH legal. > > > In many parts of this world opt-out is ILLEGAL. > > > > > > > Ralf, seriously. We get it. Use firstboot. You'll see that it is in > > fact opt-in. You're arguing for something to stay the way it is with > > no one disagreeing with you. > Where is the button/switch to disable it? > > Show us the part of your sources. > > Ralf > You'll find people are more amenable to your ideas if you actually do what they ask you to. In my case, actually LOOK at the firstboot. The source is open and you can look at it but instead have prefered to be a squeaky wheel. I'll play this game but only because I feel it is important to get smolt in and being used. Code: https://hosted.fedoraproject.org/projects/smolt/browser/firstboot/smolt.py Screen Shot: https://hosted.fedoraproject.org/projects/smolt/attachment/wiki/WikiStart/smolt-firstboot.PNG Notice the word "No" is selected by default. -Mike From clumens at redhat.com Wed Jan 31 17:37:49 2007 From: clumens at redhat.com (Chris Lumens) Date: Wed, 31 Jan 2007 12:37:49 -0500 Subject: Smolt: Fedora Hardware Profiler In-Reply-To: <3237e4410701310932u231e8f91t1912a7e2c790999a@mail.gmail.com> References: <3237e4410701310726y77ac4fcelbb84f2c029545a60@mail.gmail.com> <1170259702.5838.460.camel@mccallum.corsepiu.local> <3237e4410701310811w82a9523g3dd29f46683f7072@mail.gmail.com> <1170263751.5838.499.camel@mccallum.corsepiu.local> <3237e4410701310920p42ae438bu655f4c6499a0438@mail.gmail.com> <1170264271.5838.504.camel@mccallum.corsepiu.local> <3237e4410701310932u231e8f91t1912a7e2c790999a@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <20070131173749.GB2904@exeter.boston.redhat.com> > You'll find people are more amenable to your ideas if you actually do > what they ask you to. In my case, actually LOOK at the firstboot. > The source is open and you can look at it but instead have prefered to > be a squeaky wheel. I'll play this game but only because I feel it is > important to get smolt in and being used. > > Code: > https://hosted.fedoraproject.org/projects/smolt/browser/firstboot/smolt.py > > Screen Shot: > https://hosted.fedoraproject.org/projects/smolt/attachment/wiki/WikiStart/smolt-firstboot.PNG This may be shocking, but I have an actual development suggestion. It'd probably be good if you thought up some better text for the title and the sidebar. That way, people will know what the screen means without having to know the name of the program and what it does. I know it's early on in the project, but still. You may also want to add a very short text blurb to the top that explains what this screen does, and perhaps refers people to how they may submit their info later if they choose not to now. However, any text like that should really be kept to just a few sentences. - Chris From mmcgrath at fedoraproject.org Wed Jan 31 17:40:15 2007 From: mmcgrath at fedoraproject.org (Mike McGrath) Date: Wed, 31 Jan 2007 11:40:15 -0600 Subject: Smolt: Fedora Hardware Profiler In-Reply-To: <20070131173749.GB2904@exeter.boston.redhat.com> References: <3237e4410701310726y77ac4fcelbb84f2c029545a60@mail.gmail.com> <1170259702.5838.460.camel@mccallum.corsepiu.local> <3237e4410701310811w82a9523g3dd29f46683f7072@mail.gmail.com> <1170263751.5838.499.camel@mccallum.corsepiu.local> <3237e4410701310920p42ae438bu655f4c6499a0438@mail.gmail.com> <1170264271.5838.504.camel@mccallum.corsepiu.local> <3237e4410701310932u231e8f91t1912a7e2c790999a@mail.gmail.com> <20070131173749.GB2904@exeter.boston.redhat.com> Message-ID: <3237e4410701310940h788ac121s13cb31727cb666b9@mail.gmail.com> On 1/31/07, Chris Lumens wrote: > This may be shocking, but I have an actual development suggestion. It'd > probably be good if you thought up some better text for the title and > the sidebar. That way, people will know what the screen means without > having to know the name of the program and what it does. I know it's > early on in the project, but still. Do you mean to imply that most users haven't heard of smolt :-D Yeah, now that you mention it that screen is pretty confusing as to what it actually does. I'll put some text in there.. -Mike From david at lovesunix.net Wed Jan 31 17:49:04 2007 From: david at lovesunix.net (David Nielsen) Date: Wed, 31 Jan 2007 18:49:04 +0100 Subject: Smolt: Fedora Hardware Profiler In-Reply-To: <3237e4410701310726y77ac4fcelbb84f2c029545a60@mail.gmail.com> References: <3237e4410701310726y77ac4fcelbb84f2c029545a60@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <1170265744.23602.13.camel@dawkins> On ons, 2007-01-31 at 09:26 -0600, Mike McGrath wrote: > Hey guys, smolt is in a state now where it can be released and tested > by the general public. Currently smolt-firstboot has firstboot > integration with opt in/out. My question for the dev's is: Rock on.. count me in! > Do we as a community want to include this by default in Fedora 7? Absolutely, this is a great tool for finding not only well known hardware but also troublesome combinations. I imagine long term this would be a good addition to bugreports and I'm all for making the nice developers lives easier when my shit breaks. - David Nielsen -- "Ridicule is the only weapon that can be used against unintelligible propositions. Ideas must be distinct before reason can act upon them.? -Thomas Jefferson -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: signature.asc Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 189 bytes Desc: This is a digitally signed message part URL: From alan at redhat.com Wed Jan 31 17:51:53 2007 From: alan at redhat.com (Alan Cox) Date: Wed, 31 Jan 2007 12:51:53 -0500 Subject: Smolt: Fedora Hardware Profiler In-Reply-To: <20070131171627.69256ab1@banea.int.addix.net> References: <3237e4410701310726y77ac4fcelbb84f2c029545a60@mail.gmail.com> <1170259702.5838.460.camel@mccallum.corsepiu.local> <3237e4410701310811w82a9523g3dd29f46683f7072@mail.gmail.com> <20070131171627.69256ab1@banea.int.addix.net> Message-ID: <20070131175153.GB16252@devserv.devel.redhat.com> On Wed, Jan 31, 2007 at 05:16:27PM +0100, Ralf Ertzinger wrote: > > Lucky for me then, I based the firstboot integration off of the EULA. > > Its very easy to opt out of. > > It should not be easy to out out of. It might be acceptable to be easy to > opt in into. Anything collecting personal data must be opt-in. Personal data in this context would include things like email address, arguably IP address. From mmcgrath at fedoraproject.org Wed Jan 31 17:53:51 2007 From: mmcgrath at fedoraproject.org (Mike McGrath) Date: Wed, 31 Jan 2007 11:53:51 -0600 Subject: Smolt: Fedora Hardware Profiler In-Reply-To: <20070131175153.GB16252@devserv.devel.redhat.com> References: <3237e4410701310726y77ac4fcelbb84f2c029545a60@mail.gmail.com> <1170259702.5838.460.camel@mccallum.corsepiu.local> <3237e4410701310811w82a9523g3dd29f46683f7072@mail.gmail.com> <20070131171627.69256ab1@banea.int.addix.net> <20070131175153.GB16252@devserv.devel.redhat.com> Message-ID: <3237e4410701310953s4a4b2d39p2c13c7989ee14309@mail.gmail.com> On 1/31/07, Alan Cox wrote: > On Wed, Jan 31, 2007 at 05:16:27PM +0100, Ralf Ertzinger wrote: > > > Lucky for me then, I based the firstboot integration off of the EULA. > > > Its very easy to opt out of. > > > > It should not be easy to out out of. It might be acceptable to be easy to > > opt in into. > > Anything collecting personal data must be opt-in. Personal data in this > context would include things like email address, arguably IP address. > Is there any place that might list what personal data actually is? At present I'm not storing email address or IP in the smolt db. -Mike From rc040203 at freenet.de Wed Jan 31 17:54:07 2007 From: rc040203 at freenet.de (Ralf Corsepius) Date: Wed, 31 Jan 2007 18:54:07 +0100 Subject: Smolt: Fedora Hardware Profiler In-Reply-To: <200701311132.03921.dennis@ausil.us> References: <3237e4410701310726y77ac4fcelbb84f2c029545a60@mail.gmail.com> <3237e4410701310811w82a9523g3dd29f46683f7072@mail.gmail.com> <1170263751.5838.499.camel@mccallum.corsepiu.local> <200701311132.03921.dennis@ausil.us> Message-ID: <1170266048.5838.527.camel@mccallum.corsepiu.local> On Wed, 2007-01-31 at 11:32 -0600, Dennis Gilmore wrote: > On Wednesday 31 January 2007 11:15, Ralf Corsepius wrote: > > > > > It must be opt-in. > > > > 1. May-be you should consider to talk to RH legal. > > In many parts of this world opt-out is ILLEGAL. > > > > 2. It should be is a matter of fairness to make it opt-in. > > > > 3. In many parts of this world SPY-WARE like yours is a very hot > > political topic. You are at risk at exposing Fedora to be subjects to > > such flames. Even Microsoft has learned their lessons and made > > "registration opt-in", now you are committing the same FAULT. > Ralf, > > it is not registration, it is not spy ware. It unattendedly collects various data which is not publically available from a local machine => SPY-WARE Connecting this information with IP-numbers opens many opportunities for abuse => Opens many chances to privacy breaches. I don't have any reasons to trust this URL smolt sends it data too. > it is a voluntary hardware > profile. there is no way to know that a profile is yours unless you give me > your unique hardware id that is generated on your system at package install > time. You have this (BTW: absolutely not unique and forgable) hardware id in connection with IP-numbers. This allows backtracking. You might have heard about the fuzz HW CPU-ID had caused in the past? > This will help fedora in many ways. I guess, I don't have to mention: My opinion differs very much. > it is opt-in you can choose to install or not install smolt. Mike asked about making installation the default. That's why I am so embarrassed. Having a script that is not being run automatically (not used by first boot), but being run at user-request as part of eg. a bug-report (similar to bug-buddy) is a completely different topic. > Feel free to look at the code. there is no package list sent, no ip, no > anything that can be associated to you without you giving me your id. I'll pretty soon add an "Obsoletes: smolt" into the base package of my local repos. > And again to re-iterate it is entirely voluntary "you choose" to submit or not > your profile OK, I will have a look at the sources and look if something has changed since it was under review. At that time I did not notice any opt-in, but noticed a scripts being run at installation time. In this particular case, I'll continue to be VERY stubborn. There is not way to convince me about such spy-ware. If you want to collect statics with an opt-in, you can achieve the same by launching a counter website. Ralf From david at lovesunix.net Wed Jan 31 18:01:35 2007 From: david at lovesunix.net (David Nielsen) Date: Wed, 31 Jan 2007 19:01:35 +0100 Subject: Smolt: Fedora Hardware Profiler In-Reply-To: <1170266048.5838.527.camel@mccallum.corsepiu.local> References: <3237e4410701310726y77ac4fcelbb84f2c029545a60@mail.gmail.com> <3237e4410701310811w82a9523g3dd29f46683f7072@mail.gmail.com> <1170263751.5838.499.camel@mccallum.corsepiu.local> <200701311132.03921.dennis@ausil.us> <1170266048.5838.527.camel@mccallum.corsepiu.local> Message-ID: <1170266495.23602.18.camel@dawkins> On ons, 2007-01-31 at 18:54 +0100, Ralf Corsepius wrote: > There is not way to convince me about such spy-ware. If you want to > collect statics with an opt-in, you can achieve the same by launching a > counter website. What a brilliant way to have a debate "nothing you can say can change my mind".. that is the rhetoric of conspiracy theorists and other breeds of true believers. - David Nielsen -- "Ridicule is the only weapon that can be used against unintelligible propositions. Ideas must be distinct before reason can act upon them.? -Thomas Jefferson -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: signature.asc Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 189 bytes Desc: This is a digitally signed message part URL: From hughsient at gmail.com Wed Jan 31 18:13:33 2007 From: hughsient at gmail.com (Richard Hughes) Date: Wed, 31 Jan 2007 18:13:33 +0000 Subject: Smolt: Fedora Hardware Profiler In-Reply-To: <1170266048.5838.527.camel@mccallum.corsepiu.local> References: <3237e4410701310726y77ac4fcelbb84f2c029545a60@mail.gmail.com> <3237e4410701310811w82a9523g3dd29f46683f7072@mail.gmail.com> <1170263751.5838.499.camel@mccallum.corsepiu.local> <200701311132.03921.dennis@ausil.us> <1170266048.5838.527.camel@mccallum.corsepiu.local> Message-ID: <1170267213.3338.7.camel@hughsie-laptop> On Wed, 2007-01-31 at 18:54 +0100, Ralf Corsepius wrote: > I'll pretty soon add an "Obsoletes: smolt" into the base package of my local repos. No problem, you can do whatever you like - but I think smolt is a really good idea, and the various different opt-in concerns have been settled. Seriously, if you don't want to send your data to the smolt server, then just keep the default to no. I really don't see what the big problem is. Richard. From peter at thecodergeek.com Wed Jan 31 18:20:44 2007 From: peter at thecodergeek.com (Peter Gordon) Date: Wed, 31 Jan 2007 10:20:44 -0800 (PST) Subject: Smolt: Fedora Hardware Profiler In-Reply-To: <1170266048.5838.527.camel@mccallum.corsepiu.local> References: <3237e4410701310726y77ac4fcelbb84f2c029545a60@mail.gmail.com> <3237e4410701310811w82a9523g3dd29f46683f7072@mail.gmail.com> <1170263751.5838.499.camel@mccallum.corsepiu.local> <200701311132.03921.dennis@ausil.us> <1170266048.5838.527.camel@mccallum.corsepiu.local> Message-ID: <62661.65.223.36.19.1170267644.squirrel@thecodergeek.com> Ralf Corsepius wrote: > It unattendedly collects various data which is not publically available > from a local machine => SPY-WARE It only does so if you explicitly select the "Yes" option. Otherwise, NOTHING IS SENT WITHOUT YOUR PERMISSION. That's about as simple as it can be said... > Connecting this information with IP-numbers opens many opportunities for > abuse => Opens many chances to privacy breaches. IP addresses and other personally-identifable information is not sent, only the hardware listing. > You have this (BTW: absolutely not unique and forgable) hardware id in > connection with IP-numbers. This allows backtracking. Only if you tell others the UUID stored on your computer. This UUID is not sent as part of the data report, as I understand it. > Having a script that is not being run automatically (not used by first > boot), but being run at user-request as part of eg. a > bug-report (similar to bug-buddy) is a completely different topic. No, it's virtually the same thing: Nothing happens without the user's explicit consent. > There is not way to convince me about such spy-ware. If you want to > collect statics with an opt-in, you can achieve the same by launching a > counter website. Fine, then according to your "definition," Yum and virtually every web browser are all also spyware, among others. They also send with their requests your hostname/IP information, User-Agent information, timestamp, etc. -- Peter Gordon (codergeek42) This message was sent through a webmail interface, and thus not signed. From chris at idlelion.net Wed Jan 31 18:54:04 2007 From: chris at idlelion.net (chris at idlelion.net) Date: Wed, 31 Jan 2007 12:54:04 -0600 (CST) Subject: Spyware, smolt, yum In-Reply-To: <20070131180152.9EB887399A@hormel.redhat.com> References: <20070131180152.9EB887399A@hormel.redhat.com> Message-ID: I read that the number of machines using Fedora is being counted from their use of getting updates with yum. FC6 sets this up by default, with no instruction or permission to me, nor any notice or question to me. Is it spyware, by your definition? (Where you = anyone.) From skvidal at linux.duke.edu Wed Jan 31 18:57:02 2007 From: skvidal at linux.duke.edu (seth vidal) Date: Wed, 31 Jan 2007 13:57:02 -0500 Subject: Spyware, smolt, yum In-Reply-To: References: <20070131180152.9EB887399A@hormel.redhat.com> Message-ID: <1170269822.29190.9.camel@cutter> On Wed, 2007-01-31 at 12:54 -0600, chris at idlelion.net wrote: > I read that the number of machines using Fedora is being counted from > their use of getting updates with yum. > > FC6 sets this up by default, with no instruction or permission to me, nor > any notice or question to me. Do you know what it is counting? It's counting the network connection. There's no other data communicated. > Is it spyware, by your definition? (Where you = anyone.) no. no more than firefox is for having connections be logged on the remote server when someone uses it. -sv From thias at spam.spam.spam.spam.spam.spam.spam.egg.and.spam.freshrpms.net Wed Jan 31 18:56:26 2007 From: thias at spam.spam.spam.spam.spam.spam.spam.egg.and.spam.freshrpms.net (Matthias Saou) Date: Wed, 31 Jan 2007 19:56:26 +0100 Subject: Smolt: Fedora Hardware Profiler In-Reply-To: <3237e4410701310726y77ac4fcelbb84f2c029545a60@mail.gmail.com> References: <3237e4410701310726y77ac4fcelbb84f2c029545a60@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <20070131195626.37803cb9@python3.es.egwn.lan> Mike McGrath wrote : > You can have your machine send its stats by installing smolt with yum > and typing "smoltSendProfile" Done that, worked great for my home machines, but apparently my machines sitting in the office behind a transparent squid proxy can't seem to complete the sending, and hang after a few "sent device data" (never the same number). Strange. I also saw some 500 errors from the CherryPy server in tracebacks... certainly some temporary errors on the server side, but you might want to handle those a bit more gracefully in the client ;-) Hmmm, now I got some "X-Squid-Error: ERR_READ_ERROR 104" headers and "HTTP Error 500: Server: Squid/2.4.STABLE7" errors from my proxy :-( Matthias -- Clean custom Red Hat Linux rpm packages : http://freshrpms.net/ Fedora Core release 6 (Zod) - Linux kernel 2.6.19-1.2895.fc6 Load : 2.47 2.34 2.36 From mmcgrath at fedoraproject.org Wed Jan 31 19:00:13 2007 From: mmcgrath at fedoraproject.org (Mike McGrath) Date: Wed, 31 Jan 2007 13:00:13 -0600 Subject: Smolt: Fedora Hardware Profiler In-Reply-To: <20070131195626.37803cb9@python3.es.egwn.lan> References: <3237e4410701310726y77ac4fcelbb84f2c029545a60@mail.gmail.com> <20070131195626.37803cb9@python3.es.egwn.lan> Message-ID: <3237e4410701311100se64c450lec55109d659465bb@mail.gmail.com> On 1/31/07, Matthias Saou wrote: > Mike McGrath wrote : > I also saw some 500 errors from the CherryPy server in tracebacks... > certainly some temporary errors on the server side, but you might want > to handle those a bit more gracefully in the client ;-) > > Hmmm, now I got some "X-Squid-Error: ERR_READ_ERROR 104" headers and > "HTTP Error 500: Server: Squid/2.4.STABLE7" errors from my proxy :-( > Fun, i'll take a look :-D -Mike From bretm at redhat.com Wed Jan 31 19:12:51 2007 From: bretm at redhat.com (Bret McMillan) Date: Wed, 31 Jan 2007 14:12:51 -0500 Subject: Smolt: Fedora Hardware Profiler In-Reply-To: <3237e4410701310857o1f808139m7965f99f93ff6f79@mail.gmail.com> References: <3237e4410701310726y77ac4fcelbb84f2c029545a60@mail.gmail.com> <20070131165307.GD26542@nostromo.devel.redhat.com> <3237e4410701310857o1f808139m7965f99f93ff6f79@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <45C0EA33.1090102@redhat.com> Mike McGrath wrote: > On 1/31/07, Bill Nottingham wrote: >> Mike McGrath (mmcgrath at fedoraproject.org) said: >> > *Note: this is not LHCP, which is going to be a much larger project. >> > Smolt has a much smaller scope and will ultimately (hopefully) be >> > replaced by LHCP when it is ready. >> >> So, the issue I see is that the data appears to be stored as HAL >> descriptive strings - these could change over time. Storing >> it as vendor/id pairs might be more flexible. >> >> (Or is this actually done that way, and the display on the website >> is what's doing the conversion?) >> > > They're presently being pulled from the hardware object created using > the RHN client tools. I'll look to see what it would take to get > vendor/id pairs. Ouch. The way RHN currently deals with hardware is pretty painful, at least server-side; a bunch of us are interested in pursuing something more HAL'ish, drop me a line if you're interested, and maybe we can see if there are points of commonality. --Bret From drepper at redhat.com Wed Jan 31 19:24:00 2007 From: drepper at redhat.com (Ulrich Drepper) Date: Wed, 31 Jan 2007 11:24:00 -0800 Subject: Smolt: Fedora Hardware Profiler In-Reply-To: <20070131173749.GB2904@exeter.boston.redhat.com> References: <3237e4410701310726y77ac4fcelbb84f2c029545a60@mail.gmail.com> <1170259702.5838.460.camel@mccallum.corsepiu.local> <3237e4410701310811w82a9523g3dd29f46683f7072@mail.gmail.com> <1170263751.5838.499.camel@mccallum.corsepiu.local> <3237e4410701310920p42ae438bu655f4c6499a0438@mail.gmail.com> <1170264271.5838.504.camel@mccallum.corsepiu.local> <3237e4410701310932u231e8f91t1912a7e2c790999a@mail.gmail.com> <20070131173749.GB2904@exeter.boston.redhat.com> Message-ID: <45C0ECD0.60900@redhat.com> Chris Lumens wrote: > You may also want to add a very short text blurb to the top that > explains what this screen does, and perhaps refers people to how they > may submit their info later if they choose not to now. Plus: add something which explains why sending the info can later help should they experience problems. I.e., maintainers can ask for the UUID and immediately see the hardware details. -- ? Ulrich Drepper ? Red Hat, Inc. ? 444 Castro St ? Mountain View, CA ? -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: signature.asc Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 251 bytes Desc: OpenPGP digital signature URL: From dennis at ausil.us Wed Jan 31 19:27:53 2007 From: dennis at ausil.us (Dennis Gilmore) Date: Wed, 31 Jan 2007 13:27:53 -0600 Subject: Smolt: Fedora Hardware Profiler In-Reply-To: <1170266048.5838.527.camel@mccallum.corsepiu.local> References: <3237e4410701310726y77ac4fcelbb84f2c029545a60@mail.gmail.com> <200701311132.03921.dennis@ausil.us> <1170266048.5838.527.camel@mccallum.corsepiu.local> Message-ID: <200701311327.53547.dennis@ausil.us> On Wednesday 31 January 2007 11:54, Ralf Corsepius wrote: > On Wed, 2007-01-31 at 11:32 -0600, Dennis Gilmore wrote: > > it is not registration, it is not spy ware. > > It unattendedly collects various data which is not publically available > from a local machine => SPY-WARE where does it do this? right now we are wanting to add it to the default install and ask the user to submit a profile. the profile is sent ONCE ONLY you are free to not select and install smolt at all or say no to sending your profile. I generally don't install firstboot. > Connecting this information with IP-numbers opens many opportunities for > abuse => Opens many chances to privacy breaches. IP's are only stored in the web logs same as any other web service. > I don't have any reasons to trust this URL smolt sends it data too. > > it is a voluntary hardware > > profile. there is no way to know that a profile is yours unless you give > > me your unique hardware id that is generated on your system at package > > install time. > > You have this (BTW: absolutely not unique and forgable) hardware id in > connection with IP-numbers. This allows backtracking. It was never claimed that the ID will be unique where is the ip ? its not sent in the data. the only place it exists on the back end is in the web logs. > You might have heard about the fuzz HW CPU-ID had caused in the past? > > > This will help fedora in many ways. > > I guess, I don't have to mention: My opinion differs very much. Tell me how it will not help. You have not done anything to convince me that I see this the wrong way and you have done nothing to prove your point. > > it is opt-in you can choose to install or not install smolt. > > Mike asked about making installation the default. That's why I am so > embarrassed. > > Having a script that is not being run automatically (not used by first > boot), but being run at user-request as part of eg. a > bug-report (similar to bug-buddy) is a completely different topic. thats how it works. you really have not looked at this in any rational sane manner have you. the firstboot module does not just send your profile. it gives you the option to opt in. you can send your profile by yourself at any time you choose > > Feel free to look at the code. there is no package list sent, no ip, no > > anything that can be associated to you without you giving me your id. > > I'll pretty soon add an "Obsoletes: smolt" into the base package of my > local repos. you are free to not install or if you do remove smolt at any time of your choosing > > And again to re-iterate it is entirely voluntary "you choose" to submit > > or not your profile > > OK, I will have a look at the sources and look if something has changed > since it was under review. At that time I did not notice any opt-in, but > noticed a scripts being run at installation time. %post if ! [ -f %{_sysconfdir}/sysconfig/hw-uuid ] then /bin/cat /proc/sys/kernel/random/uuid > %{_sysconfdir}/sysconfig/hw-uuid /bin/chmod 0644 %{_sysconfdir}/sysconfig/hw-uuid /bin/chown root:root %{_sysconfdir}/sysconfig/hw-uuid fi the Id is generated and saved on the local system if it doesnt exist. again its not rocket science and doesnt attempt to be globally unique > In this particular case, I'll continue to be VERY stubborn. > > There is not way to convince me about such spy-ware. If you want to > collect statics with an opt-in, you can achieve the same by launching a > counter website. > > Ralf -- ?,-._|\ ? ?Dennis Gilmore, RHCE /Aussie\ ? Proud Australian \_.--._/ ? | Aurora | Fedora | ? ? ? v ? ? From enrico.scholz at informatik.tu-chemnitz.de Wed Jan 31 19:28:28 2007 From: enrico.scholz at informatik.tu-chemnitz.de (Enrico Scholz) Date: Wed, 31 Jan 2007 20:28:28 +0100 Subject: Smolt: Fedora Hardware Profiler In-Reply-To: <3237e4410701310726y77ac4fcelbb84f2c029545a60@mail.gmail.com> (Mike McGrath's message of "Wed, 31 Jan 2007 09:26:26 -0600") References: <3237e4410701310726y77ac4fcelbb84f2c029545a60@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <87abzzov1f.fsf@kosh.bigo.ensc.de> mmcgrath at fedoraproject.org ("Mike McGrath") writes: > Hey guys, smolt is in a state now where it can be released and tested > by the general public. Currently smolt-firstboot has firstboot > integration with opt in/out. My question for the dev's is: > > Do we as a community want to include this by default in Fedora 7? mmh... what the heck is this tool doing? When I try to install it on my servers I get ----------- Installing: smolt noarch 0.6.1-3.fc6 extras 123 k Installing for dependencies: at i386 3.1.8-84.fc6 updates 55 k bc i386 1.06-21 base 106 k beecrypt i386 4.1.2-10.1.1 base 116 k binutils i386 2.17.50.0.6-2.fc6 updates 2.9 M bzip2 i386 1.0.3-3 base 48 k cairo i386 1.2.6-1.fc6 updates 406 k cups i386 1:1.2.7-1.7.fc6 updates 2.8 M cups-libs i386 1:1.2.7-1.7.fc6 updates 181 k dbus i386 1.0.1-9.fc6 updates 471 k dbus-glib i386 0.70-6.fc6 updates 152 k dbus-python i386 0.70-6 base 161 k ed i386 0.3-0.fc6 updates 54 k elfutils-libelf i386 0.125-1.fc6 updates 52 k expat i386 1.95.8-8.2.1 base 77 k file i386 4.17-8 base 319 k fontconfig i386 2.4.1-3.fc6 base 175 k freetype i386 2.2.1-16.fc6 updates 312 k gettext i386 0.14.6-4.fc6 updates 1.4 M gnutls i386 1.4.1-2 base 349 k groff i386 1.18.1.1-11.1 base 1.9 M libICE i386 1.0.1-2.1 base 53 k libSM i386 1.0.1-3.1 base 27 k libX11 i386 1.0.3-5.fc6 updates 793 k libXau i386 1.0.1-3.1 base 18 k libXdmcp i386 1.0.1-2.1 base 19 k libXext i386 1.0.1-2.1 base 36 k libXft i386 2.1.10-1.1 base 44 k libXi i386 1.0.1-3.1 base 25 k libXrender i386 0.9.1-3.1 base 27 k libXt i386 1.0.2-3.1.fc6 base 174 k libXxf86vm i386 1.0.1-3.1 base 14 k libdrm i386 2.3.0-1.fc6 updates 24 k libgcrypt i386 1.2.3-1 base 174 k libgpg-error i386 1.4-2 base 60 k libjpeg i386 6b-37 base 139 k libpng i386 2:1.2.10-7 base 242 k libtiff i386 3.8.2-6.fc6 base 312 k libuser i386 0.54.7-2 base 434 k libxml2 i386 2.6.27-1.FC6 updates 807 k libxml2-python i386 2.6.27-1.FC6 updates 705 k m4 i386 1.4.5-4 updates 133 k make i386 1:3.81-1.1 base 465 k man i386 1.6d-2.fc6 updates 263 k mesa-libGL i386 6.5.1-8.fc6 updates 9.7 M neon i386 0.25.5-5.1 base 96 k pango i386 1.14.8-1.fc6 updates 330 k paps i386 0.6.6-17.fc6 updates 32 k passwd i386 0.73-1 base 20 k patch i386 2.5.4-29.2.2 base 64 k pax i386 3.4-1.2.2 base 63 k redhat-lsb i386 3.1-11 base 21 k rpm i386 4.4.2-32 base 639 k rpm-libs i386 4.4.2-32 base 973 k sqlite i386 3.3.6-2 base 213 k time i386 1.7-27.2.2 base 17 k tmpwatch i386 2.9.7-1.1 base 18 k vixie-cron i386 4:4.1-64.fc6 base 89 k xorg-x11-filesystem noarch 7.1-2.fc6 base 5.5 k ---------- The generated output does not seem to require more than bash, gawk, curl (for sending the report) and some hardware diagnostic tools (dmidecode, lspci...). Enrico -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 480 bytes Desc: not available URL: From tcallawa at redhat.com Wed Jan 31 19:32:15 2007 From: tcallawa at redhat.com (Tom 'spot' Callaway) Date: Wed, 31 Jan 2007 13:32:15 -0600 Subject: Smolt: Fedora Hardware Profiler In-Reply-To: <87abzzov1f.fsf@kosh.bigo.ensc.de> References: <3237e4410701310726y77ac4fcelbb84f2c029545a60@mail.gmail.com> <87abzzov1f.fsf@kosh.bigo.ensc.de> Message-ID: <1170271935.27368.13.camel@localhost.localdomain> On Wed, 2007-01-31 at 20:28 +0100, Enrico Scholz wrote: > mesa-libGL Hey, this is 3D hardware profiling. Strap in and hold on. ~spot From jkeating at redhat.com Wed Jan 31 19:45:54 2007 From: jkeating at redhat.com (Jesse Keating) Date: Wed, 31 Jan 2007 14:45:54 -0500 Subject: Smolt: Fedora Hardware Profiler In-Reply-To: <87abzzov1f.fsf@kosh.bigo.ensc.de> References: <3237e4410701310726y77ac4fcelbb84f2c029545a60@mail.gmail.com> <87abzzov1f.fsf@kosh.bigo.ensc.de> Message-ID: <200701311445.54719.jkeating@redhat.com> On Wednesday 31 January 2007 14:28, Enrico Scholz wrote: > mmh... what the heck is this tool doing? When I try to install it on my > servers I get Run this again with debug. Most likely smolt requires something which in turn has some heafty requires. -- Jesse Keating Release Engineer: Fedora -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 189 bytes Desc: not available URL: From hughsient at gmail.com Wed Jan 31 20:03:13 2007 From: hughsient at gmail.com (Richard Hughes) Date: Wed, 31 Jan 2007 20:03:13 +0000 Subject: Smolt: Fedora Hardware Profiler In-Reply-To: <1170271935.27368.13.camel@localhost.localdomain> References: <3237e4410701310726y77ac4fcelbb84f2c029545a60@mail.gmail.com> <87abzzov1f.fsf@kosh.bigo.ensc.de> <1170271935.27368.13.camel@localhost.localdomain> Message-ID: <1170273793.3338.12.camel@hughsie-laptop> On Wed, 2007-01-31 at 13:32 -0600, Tom 'spot' Callaway wrote: > Hey, this is 3D hardware profiling. Strap in and hold on. I just ran smoltSendProfile and it just started sending data without asking me "is this okay (y/N)?" - this is with the version in extras. Not an issue for me, but might be one to sort before F7. Richard. From jkeating at redhat.com Wed Jan 31 20:16:52 2007 From: jkeating at redhat.com (Jesse Keating) Date: Wed, 31 Jan 2007 15:16:52 -0500 Subject: Why ship mx? Message-ID: <200701311516.52378.jkeating@redhat.com> Does anybody see any reason why we should continue to ship mx, in any form? If not, we need to put it in the dead.package pile. -- Jesse Keating Release Engineer: Fedora -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 189 bytes Desc: not available URL: From mmcgrath at fedoraproject.org Wed Jan 31 20:04:55 2007 From: mmcgrath at fedoraproject.org (Mike McGrath) Date: Wed, 31 Jan 2007 14:04:55 -0600 Subject: Smolt: Fedora Hardware Profiler In-Reply-To: <200701311445.54719.jkeating@redhat.com> References: <3237e4410701310726y77ac4fcelbb84f2c029545a60@mail.gmail.com> <87abzzov1f.fsf@kosh.bigo.ensc.de> <200701311445.54719.jkeating@redhat.com> Message-ID: <3237e4410701311204y78ddc877xb940a55e05cb99@mail.gmail.com> On 1/31/07, Jesse Keating wrote: > On Wednesday 31 January 2007 14:28, Enrico Scholz wrote: > > mmh... what the heck is this tool doing? When I try to install it on my > > servers I get > > Run this again with debug. Most likely smolt requires something which in turn > has some heafty requires. > redhat-lsb I might get rid of that. Does anyone here care about the output from lsb_release? -Mike From jkeating at redhat.com Wed Jan 31 20:21:20 2007 From: jkeating at redhat.com (Jesse Keating) Date: Wed, 31 Jan 2007 15:21:20 -0500 Subject: Smolt: Fedora Hardware Profiler In-Reply-To: <3237e4410701311204y78ddc877xb940a55e05cb99@mail.gmail.com> References: <3237e4410701310726y77ac4fcelbb84f2c029545a60@mail.gmail.com> <200701311445.54719.jkeating@redhat.com> <3237e4410701311204y78ddc877xb940a55e05cb99@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <200701311521.21168.jkeating@redhat.com> On Wednesday 31 January 2007 15:04, Mike McGrath wrote: > redhat-lsb ?I might get rid of that. ?Does anyone here care about the > output from lsb_release? Does anybody care about LSB _at_ _all_ ? -- Jesse Keating Release Engineer: Fedora -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 189 bytes Desc: not available URL: From michel.salim at gmail.com Wed Jan 31 20:18:00 2007 From: michel.salim at gmail.com (Michel Salim) Date: Wed, 31 Jan 2007 15:18:00 -0500 Subject: export restrictions in EULA In-Reply-To: <3118d8de0701310826y51c9d403jc388c1c68201d9e1@mail.gmail.com> References: <3118d8de0701310816k78a3a235w3880afd07a5ac264@mail.gmail.com> <3118d8de0701310826y51c9d403jc388c1c68201d9e1@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <883cfe6d0701311218m64c6a17bif5f3ce0dbd9662fb@mail.gmail.com> 2007/1/31, Jason Corley : > I'm not sure what list this is really appropriate for, so apologies if > this is the wrong forum. I noticed that the Fedora EULA still include > notes about export restrictions, specifically: > > "... understands that certain of the software are subject to export controls > under the U.S. Commerce Departments Export Administration Regulations > (EAR) ..." > > Cuba, Iran, North Korea, etc. are all restricted areas. Out of > curiosity how is that being enforced on the Fedora infrastructure end, > and how is that restriction handling passed to mirrors? Is each > mirror required to implement their own set of restrictions? Does a > Fedora mirror server in Canada (or some other non-restricted country) > sidestep that issue? If so, doesn't that basically make the EULA > clause moot (from a once the dam is broken kinda perspective)? > As I understand it the Free Media project does ship Fedora discs to Cuba. Is there any refinement on this blanket export restriction -- which packages are actually affected? Perhaps we need a 'restricted' Yum repository ala Debian's non-US. As for a Fedora mirror server elsewhere, the source code = free speech interpretation of the First Amendment would seem to indicate that if the mirror rebuilds its own binaries then reexporting is not subject to US laws anymore, but if not then it might be. Unless the crypto-related software is always built on a Fedora build server in a third country? (I recall that in the past some software are available only from redhat.de for this reason) Regards, -- Michel Salim http://hircus.wordpress.com/ My theology, briefly, is that the universe was dictated but not signed. -- Christopher Morley From tromey at redhat.com Wed Jan 31 18:10:34 2007 From: tromey at redhat.com (Tom Tromey) Date: 31 Jan 2007 11:10:34 -0700 Subject: Smolt: Fedora Hardware Profiler In-Reply-To: <1170266048.5838.527.camel@mccallum.corsepiu.local> References: <3237e4410701310726y77ac4fcelbb84f2c029545a60@mail.gmail.com> <3237e4410701310811w82a9523g3dd29f46683f7072@mail.gmail.com> <1170263751.5838.499.camel@mccallum.corsepiu.local> <200701311132.03921.dennis@ausil.us> <1170266048.5838.527.camel@mccallum.corsepiu.local> Message-ID: >>>>> "Ralf" == Ralf Corsepius writes: Ralf> I don't have any reasons to trust this URL smolt sends it data too. In principle I think this site should be controlled by the fedora project. I didn't look to see whether it is or not. But in any case IMO it ought to be approximately as trustworthy as the standard yum servers. The smolt data looked quite nice to me. Good stuff to know. Tom From dennis at ausil.us Wed Jan 31 20:33:39 2007 From: dennis at ausil.us (Dennis Gilmore) Date: Wed, 31 Jan 2007 14:33:39 -0600 Subject: Smolt: Fedora Hardware Profiler In-Reply-To: <1170273793.3338.12.camel@hughsie-laptop> References: <3237e4410701310726y77ac4fcelbb84f2c029545a60@mail.gmail.com> <1170271935.27368.13.camel@localhost.localdomain> <1170273793.3338.12.camel@hughsie-laptop> Message-ID: <200701311433.40027.dennis@ausil.us> On Wednesday 31 January 2007 14:03, Richard Hughes wrote: > On Wed, 2007-01-31 at 13:32 -0600, Tom 'spot' Callaway wrote: > > Hey, this is 3D hardware profiling. Strap in and hold on. > > I just ran smoltSendProfile and it just started sending data without > asking me "is this okay (y/N)?" - this is with the version in extras. > > Not an issue for me, but might be one to sort before F7. > > Richard. there is always run smoltPrint to just view your profile without sending -- ?,-._|\ ? ?Dennis Gilmore, RHCE /Aussie\ ? Proud Australian \_.--._/ ? | Aurora | Fedora | ? ? ? v ? ? From dyek at real.com Wed Jan 31 20:36:21 2007 From: dyek at real.com (Daniel Yek) Date: Wed, 31 Jan 2007 12:36:21 -0800 Subject: LSB In-Reply-To: <200701311521.21168.jkeating@redhat.com> References: <3237e4410701310726y77ac4fcelbb84f2c029545a60@mail.gmail.com> <200701311445.54719.jkeating@redhat.com> <3237e4410701311204y78ddc877xb940a55e05cb99@mail.gmail.com> <200701311521.21168.jkeating@redhat.com> Message-ID: <6.2.1.2.2.20070131123401.6313c9e0@mailone.real.com> At 12:21 PM 1/31/2007, Jesse Keating wrote: >On Wednesday 31 January 2007 15:04, Mike McGrath wrote: > > redhat-lsb ? I might get rid of that. ? Does anyone here care about the > > output from lsb_release? > >Does anybody care about LSB _at_ _all_ ? Yes, we care about LSB. What is Fedora Project and RedHat's position on LSB? Thanks. -- Daniel Yek >-- >Jesse Keating >Release Engineer: Fedora From jkeating at redhat.com Wed Jan 31 20:44:45 2007 From: jkeating at redhat.com (Jesse Keating) Date: Wed, 31 Jan 2007 15:44:45 -0500 Subject: LSB In-Reply-To: <6.2.1.2.2.20070131123401.6313c9e0@mailone.real.com> References: <3237e4410701310726y77ac4fcelbb84f2c029545a60@mail.gmail.com> <200701311521.21168.jkeating@redhat.com> <6.2.1.2.2.20070131123401.6313c9e0@mailone.real.com> Message-ID: <200701311544.45896.jkeating@redhat.com> On Wednesday 31 January 2007 15:36, Daniel Yek wrote: > Yes, we care about LSB. What is Fedora Project and RedHat's position on > LSB? That it sounds like almost a useful thing, but in practice its practically useless? Oh wait, that's just my opinion. -- Jesse Keating Release Engineer: Fedora -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 189 bytes Desc: not available URL: From chitlesh at fedoraproject.org Wed Jan 31 20:50:50 2007 From: chitlesh at fedoraproject.org (Chitlesh GOORAH) Date: Wed, 31 Jan 2007 21:50:50 +0100 Subject: F7 KDE spin In-Reply-To: <16de708d0701081825l33023bd4p818ad14919feae0b@mail.gmail.com> References: <45A2BABB.2090902@math.unl.edu> <16de708d0701081825l33023bd4p818ad14919feae0b@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <13dbfe4f0701311250p5495474bye31869bd7abb983e@mail.gmail.com> On 1/9/07, Arthur Pemberton wrote: > Good luck with the KDE spin. Anything towards having me not have to > `rpm -e gdm` post Fedora install has my blessings. > I've just installed a FC6 KDE only. GDM is installed by default. I've removed gdm and switchdesk to kdm http://flickr.com/photo_zoom.gne?id=375815378&context=photostream&size=o I haven't installed firefox and evolution. But what annoys me is that in that case, the small icons on the kicker (web browser and mail client), will popup http://flickr.com/photo_zoom.gne?id=375815382&size=o when clicked. This should be corrected if evolution isn't among the kde spin. I wouldn't consider kdmtheme as part of the kde spin since it's just another addon which could remove the hardwork of FedoraArtwork, well that could be downloaded via yum. I'll publish the full list of rpms after the updates to rawhide. Chitlesh -- http://clunixchit.blogspot.com From wwoods at redhat.com Wed Jan 31 21:00:51 2007 From: wwoods at redhat.com (Will Woods) Date: Wed, 31 Jan 2007 16:00:51 -0500 Subject: Enabling SELinux Alert notification In-Reply-To: <6.2.1.2.2.20070130131752.56b40120@mailone.real.com> References: <6.2.1.2.2.20070130103932.55ebb200@mailone.real.com> <6.2.1.2.2.20070130131752.56b40120@mailone.real.com> Message-ID: <1170277251.3335.8.camel@localhost.localdomain> On Tue, 2007-01-30 at 13:20 -0800, Daniel Yek wrote: > OK, never mind that. After a system reboot, it magically worked. > > (One bit of important information I forgot to include is that this is a > x86_64 system. I'm not sure if that would explain some of the problems that > I encountered. By the way, the eye candy is really sweet; like it very much.) setroubleshootd depends on the auditd service; if you don't start auditd first it doesn't get any info about selinux denials. Gosh, wouldn't it be nice if our init scripts had some kind of dependency info? -w From dblistsub-fedora at yahoo.it Wed Jan 31 20:29:17 2007 From: dblistsub-fedora at yahoo.it (Davide Bolcioni) Date: Wed, 31 Jan 2007 21:29:17 +0100 Subject: Smolt: Fedora Hardware Profiler In-Reply-To: References: <3237e4410701310726y77ac4fcelbb84f2c029545a60@mail.gmail.com> <3237e4410701310820x3def333dh90c9e74c56863dc5@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <200701312129.17612.dblistsub-fedora@yahoo.it> On Wednesday 31 January 2007 6:16 pm, Tony Nelson wrote: > How about the smolt package having a list of "well known" hardware: > hardware that is already known to work, or to not work for good reason. If > the computer has only "well known" hardware, don't bother the user at all. > (Unless some of it is known to be bad; it might be polite to mention that.) > If there is unlisted hardware, offer to query a server to find out how > "interesting" it is, in order to help the user make an informed choice. > (Be sure to mention that /all/ the hardware will be reported on opt-in, in > case of interactions.) Even secretive people might want to opt in if they > thought it would really help, and they'd surely be less offended in the > first place. All of the above, in my opinion, would be especially useful on the Fedora Live CD. Shopping for a new PC would become interesting. Thank you for your consideration, Davide Bolcioni -- There is no place like /home. From dyek at real.com Wed Jan 31 21:41:51 2007 From: dyek at real.com (Daniel Yek) Date: Wed, 31 Jan 2007 13:41:51 -0800 Subject: Enabling SELinux Alert notification In-Reply-To: <1170277251.3335.8.camel@localhost.localdomain> References: <6.2.1.2.2.20070130103932.55ebb200@mailone.real.com> <6.2.1.2.2.20070130131752.56b40120@mailone.real.com> <1170277251.3335.8.camel@localhost.localdomain> Message-ID: <6.2.1.2.2.20070131134110.63b21ac0@mailone.real.com> At 01:00 PM 1/31/2007, Will Woods wrote: >On Tue, 2007-01-30 at 13:20 -0800, Daniel Yek wrote: > > OK, never mind that. After a system reboot, it magically worked. > > > > (One bit of important information I forgot to include is that this is a > > x86_64 system. I'm not sure if that would explain some of the problems > that > > I encountered. By the way, the eye candy is really sweet; like it very > much.) > >setroubleshootd depends on the auditd service; if you don't start auditd >first it doesn't get any info about selinux denials. That is good to know. Thanks. -- Daniel Yek >Gosh, wouldn't it be nice if our init scripts had some kind of >dependency info? > >-w > From chitlesh at fedoraproject.org Wed Jan 31 21:46:54 2007 From: chitlesh at fedoraproject.org (Chitlesh GOORAH) Date: Wed, 31 Jan 2007 22:46:54 +0100 Subject: F7 KDE spin: kmenu-gnome Message-ID: <13dbfe4f0701311346p6726ec0dre9c35fcf75c9ebbd@mail.gmail.com> Hello, Since I'm the maintainer of kmenu-gnome and possible kmenu-gnome on the kde spin, I'm asking what changes/enhancements you would like to see in that package to enhance usability on f7 kde. Any changes or critics ? Chitlesh -- http://clunixchit.blogspot.com From dhollis at davehollis.com Wed Jan 31 20:25:15 2007 From: dhollis at davehollis.com (David Hollis) Date: Wed, 31 Jan 2007 15:25:15 -0500 Subject: Smolt: Fedora Hardware Profiler In-Reply-To: <200701311130.37925.dennis@ausil.us> References: <3237e4410701310726y77ac4fcelbb84f2c029545a60@mail.gmail.com> <3237e4410701310811w82a9523g3dd29f46683f7072@mail.gmail.com> <1170263751.5838.499.camel@mccallum.corsepiu.local> <200701311130.37925.dennis@ausil.us> Message-ID: <1170275115.3790.2.camel@dhollis-lnx.sunera.com> On Wed, 2007-01-31 at 11:30 -0600, Dennis Gilmore wrote: > from http://publictest4.fedora.redhat.com/raw > > UUID cc4dfded-42d8-489d-af68-c2ff14438d1c > OS Aurora SPARC Linux release 2.90 (Aurora Corona) > platform sparc64 > bogomips 2001.0 > systemMemory 16229 > systemSwap 3996 > CPUVendor sun4v - ultrasparc t1 (niagara) > numCPUs 32 > CPUSpeed 1000.0 > language en_US.UTF-8 > defaultRunlevel 3 > vendor sun > system Sun Fire(TM) T1000 > Bus Class Driver Description > pci OTHER unknown Broadcom|EPB PCI-Express to PCI-X Bridge > pci OTHER tg3 Broadcom Corporation|NetXtreme BCM5714 Gigabit Ethernet > MISC NETWORK unknown Networking Interface > pci OTHER tg3 Broadcom Corporation|NetXtreme BCM5714 Gigabit Ethernet > MISC NETWORK unknown Networking Interface > pci OTHER unknown Broadcom|HT1000 PCI/PCI-X bridge > pci OTHER tg3 Broadcom Corporation|NetXtreme BCM5704 Gigabit Ethernet > MISC NETWORK unknown Networking Interface > pci OTHER tg3 Broadcom Corporation|NetXtreme BCM5704 Gigabit Ethernet > MISC NETWORK unknown Networking Interface > pci SCSI mptsas LSI Logic / Symbios Logic|SAS1064 PCI-X Fusion-MPT SAS > scsi HD unknown ATA|ST3320620AS > > thats one of my systems that is all that gets sent. > > And again to re-iterate it is entirely voluntary "you choose" to submit or not > your profile I also presume the stats web page would be expanded on to provide more than just Top 20 devices and such? The reason I ask is that as a device driver maintainer, it would certainly be interesting to be able to get some ideas on how many people have the device/are using the driver and platforms. -- David Hollis From mmcgrath at fedoraproject.org Wed Jan 31 21:50:38 2007 From: mmcgrath at fedoraproject.org (Mike McGrath) Date: Wed, 31 Jan 2007 15:50:38 -0600 Subject: Smolt: Fedora Hardware Profiler In-Reply-To: <1170275115.3790.2.camel@dhollis-lnx.sunera.com> References: <3237e4410701310726y77ac4fcelbb84f2c029545a60@mail.gmail.com> <3237e4410701310811w82a9523g3dd29f46683f7072@mail.gmail.com> <1170263751.5838.499.camel@mccallum.corsepiu.local> <200701311130.37925.dennis@ausil.us> <1170275115.3790.2.camel@dhollis-lnx.sunera.com> Message-ID: <3237e4410701311350p2cc5cd10q573a35fc5df7878a@mail.gmail.com> On 1/31/07, David Hollis wrote: > On Wed, 2007-01-31 at 11:30 -0600, Dennis Gilmore wrote: > I also presume the stats web page would be expanded on to provide more > than just Top 20 devices and such? The reason I ask is that as a device > driver maintainer, it would certainly be interesting to be able to get > some ideas on how many people have the device/are using the driver and > platforms. > Yeah, i'm actually working on a special device stats page. Its just not there yet. -Mike From michael.wiktowy at gmail.com Wed Jan 31 22:01:39 2007 From: michael.wiktowy at gmail.com (Michael Wiktowy) Date: Wed, 31 Jan 2007 17:01:39 -0500 Subject: Smolt: Fedora Hardware Profiler In-Reply-To: <3237e4410701310726y77ac4fcelbb84f2c029545a60@mail.gmail.com> References: <3237e4410701310726y77ac4fcelbb84f2c029545a60@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <3e4ec4600701311401m4e72caa4gdc28fe912d9a1f85@mail.gmail.com> On 1/31/07, Mike McGrath wrote: > Hey guys, smolt is in a state now where it can be released and tested > by the general public. Currently smolt-firstboot has firstboot > integration with opt in/out. My question for the dev's is: > > Do we as a community want to include this by default in Fedora 7? > > For more information on smolt see: > > https://hosted.fedoraproject.org/projects/smolt/wiki > and > https://hosted.fedoraproject.org/projects/smolt/wiki/Scope > > Current stats can be found at: > > http://smolt.fedoraproject.org/stats > > You can have your machine send its stats by installing smolt with yum > and typing "smoltSendProfile" > > *Note: this is not LHCP, which is going to be a much larger project. > Smolt has a much smaller scope and will ultimately (hopefully) be > replaced by LHCP when it is ready. > Does the profile give any indication whether the hardware is installed and working properly (or providing some limited functionality) or is it just cataloging its existence? If it isn't verifying that what is listed is actually functioning as it should then I don't really see the value of collecting all that data at first boot. It would be just giving a statistical sampling of hardware that exists in the world ... however broken it may be on Linux. It also wouldn't tell you anything about hardware that is so broken and unsupported that it is not even detected. It would be far more valuable as an automated tool to send in consistent data along with a bug report. If it does do some health/functionality checking of the driver for hardware then including it in firstboot makes a lot more sense. /Mike From mmcgrath at fedoraproject.org Wed Jan 31 22:15:54 2007 From: mmcgrath at fedoraproject.org (Mike McGrath) Date: Wed, 31 Jan 2007 16:15:54 -0600 Subject: Smolt: Fedora Hardware Profiler In-Reply-To: <3e4ec4600701311401m4e72caa4gdc28fe912d9a1f85@mail.gmail.com> References: <3237e4410701310726y77ac4fcelbb84f2c029545a60@mail.gmail.com> <3e4ec4600701311401m4e72caa4gdc28fe912d9a1f85@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <3237e4410701311415l6629b09cn3ab3cfd971207443@mail.gmail.com> On 1/31/07, Michael Wiktowy wrote: > On 1/31/07, Mike McGrath wrote: > Does the profile give any indication whether the hardware is installed > and working properly (or providing some limited functionality) or is > it just cataloging its existence? The LHCP guys are doing this. Smolt has a much smaller scope. > > If it isn't verifying that what is listed is actually functioning as > it should then I don't really see the value of collecting all that > data at first boot. It would be just giving a statistical sampling of > hardware that exists in the world ... however broken it may be on > Linux. It also wouldn't tell you anything about hardware that is so > broken and unsupported that it is not even detected. > > It would be far more valuable as an automated tool to send in > consistent data along with a bug report. Extremely valuable. But there's only so many hours in the day. The LHCP guys are working on this as well. -Mike From jspaleta at gmail.com Wed Jan 31 22:17:54 2007 From: jspaleta at gmail.com (Jeff Spaleta) Date: Wed, 31 Jan 2007 13:17:54 -0900 Subject: Smolt: Fedora Hardware Profiler In-Reply-To: <1170275115.3790.2.camel@dhollis-lnx.sunera.com> References: <3237e4410701310726y77ac4fcelbb84f2c029545a60@mail.gmail.com> <3237e4410701310811w82a9523g3dd29f46683f7072@mail.gmail.com> <1170263751.5838.499.camel@mccallum.corsepiu.local> <200701311130.37925.dennis@ausil.us> <1170275115.3790.2.camel@dhollis-lnx.sunera.com> Message-ID: <604aa7910701311417l50264359me99c479972e270b8@mail.gmail.com> On 1/31/07, David Hollis wrote: > I also presume the stats web page would be expanded on to provide more > than just Top 20 devices and such? The reason I ask is that as a device > driver maintainer, it would certainly be interesting to be able to get > some ideas on how many people have the device/are using the driver and > platforms. We also totally need a section for the most snaztastic set of hardware running fedora. I mean seriously, if someone is running fedora on the equivalent audio/video setup as a 20 screen Movie Theature Multiplex.. that would be interesting to highlight... if they choose to let us know about it of course. -jef"lspci 02:00.0 Brainwave Orbital Laser controller: Starbucks Coffee Co. BOL203x (rev 09)" spaleta From wtogami at redhat.com Wed Jan 31 23:22:19 2007 From: wtogami at redhat.com (Warren Togami) Date: Wed, 31 Jan 2007 18:22:19 -0500 Subject: F7 KDE spin In-Reply-To: <13dbfe4f0701311250p5495474bye31869bd7abb983e@mail.gmail.com> References: <45A2BABB.2090902@math.unl.edu> <16de708d0701081825l33023bd4p818ad14919feae0b@mail.gmail.com> <13dbfe4f0701311250p5495474bye31869bd7abb983e@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <45C124AB.4020109@redhat.com> Chitlesh GOORAH wrote: > On 1/9/07, Arthur Pemberton wrote: >> Good luck with the KDE spin. Anything towards having me not have to >> `rpm -e gdm` post Fedora install has my blessings. >> > > I've just installed a FC6 KDE only. GDM is installed by default. > > I've removed gdm and switchdesk to kdm > http://flickr.com/photo_zoom.gne?id=375815378&context=photostream&size=o > > I haven't installed firefox and evolution. But what annoys me is that > in that case, the small icons on the kicker (web browser and mail > client), will popup > http://flickr.com/photo_zoom.gne?id=375815382&size=o when clicked. > This should be corrected if evolution isn't among the kde spin. The htmlview and launchmail in FC7 should fallback to *any* browser in a list of fallbacks if the configured browser or mail client doesn't exist. This should help this case... although htmlview could probably use a lot more cleanup. Warren Togami wtogami at redhat.com