Packaging quality, assistance.

[Josh Boyer]

On Thu, 2007-05-10 at 08:04 +0200, Ralf Corsepius wrote:
> > > I have not complained about nobody having done anything on this (IMO:
> > > unusable flagged review stuff causing the bugzilla list to be flooded,
> > > I did not complain about the web-pages going on and off almost daily.
> > 
> > Um... wtf does that have to do with Red Hat and/or the Core/Extras
> > merge?
> 
> I and others had initially asked and complained. Yet, the implementor
> (@RH) continued ignoring all concerns and complaints. Now reviewer are
> being confronted with the mess he has caused (The flagged crap ca.
> doubled the list traffic and made review close to unreadable).

Bad quoting on my part.  I was asking about the web-pages thing.  It's
really immaterial to the rest of the conversation though.

> > > I did not complain about plague suddenly going offline for devel and
> > > being replaced with something largely undocumented called koji.
> > 
> > Do you have difficulties with koji or ..?
> Yes, I had. 
> 
> Publicly visible symptoms were me upgrading packages for FC < 7 but not
> doing so for FC7. ATM you are seeing broken EVRs.
> 
> I wasted several hours spread over several days on it, because 
> * the koji package doesn't ship with any usable docs, and a google
> search did not return much useful info either.

What kind are you looking for?  Docs for what exactly?

> * at some point the buildserver did not respond, 
> * when it finally responded (a few days later) it referred to an invalid
> URL.
> * when this URL finally was valid (yet another day later), it didn't
> contain useful information.
> * when this URL contained some useful info (yet several hours later,
> some time earlier this week), koji started to work.

Without a timeline I'm not sure I can help diagnose what happened for
you there.  I didn't experience those difficulties.

> >   Seriously, if there are
> > issues here they can be addressed.
> Do you want me to bugzilla PR's?

Tickets here: https://admin.fedoraproject.org/tickets/ would probably be
better for some of the issues you described above.

> > > I did not complain about all @RH's missing at the FPC meeting yesterday
> > > because (as it had leaked through other channels) them having been at
> > > the "RedHat summit". 
> > 
> > People have day jobs...  I miss FESCo meetings because of mine... should
> > I be kicked off of it?
> Other people inform their fellow committee members in advance if they
> know not to be able to join a meeting. To me this is a matter of
> fairness and politeness. 

If that wasn't done, I find it odd.  It is indeed polite to do so.

> >   Did it work for
> > the most part?  Sure.  But then again, there were never Extras packages
> > being included in ISO spins, etc.  Things like this are what I'm talking
> > about when I say it's a two way street.
> Exactly. An IMO superior approach would have been to branch FC8 at the
> same time the DVD freeze took place and to push subsequent FC7 builts to
> "updates".

It's not frozen yet though.  It's in a state of slush.  See the emails
from earlier this week about Freeze and GA slipping.

> > > Now accuse me to be impatient again ;)
> > 
> > It's not your patience that irks me.  It's your insistence upon _making_
> > this a Red Hat versus community fight.
> Because I perceive it as such. Actually as a community contributor I
> don't see any actual improvements over the time before the merger:
> "Annonymous circles" drawing questionable decisions from a very
> RH-centric view, causing many hick-ups and disturbing irritations on the
> community side.

Your perceptions are your own.  As a community member, I see the
opposite.
 
> > non-free firmware went to the Board.  There are non-Red Hat people on
> > the Board.
> Exactly this is the point: "I perceive RH as labeling decisions as
> community decisions, which have actually been taken @RH or at least in
> their close vicinity". Remember, none of the Fedora leadership circles
> represents the community. FESCo once did, but even this doesn't apply
> anymore.

How can you say that?  There are elected community members in FESCo.
More than half.  The Board also has community members.  FPC does.

Are all of these community members on these committees just puppets that
Red Hat controls?  I very much do not think so.

josh