F8 is getting *really* sysadmin-hostile

Olivier Galibert galibert at pobox.com
Thu Nov 15 18:32:44 UTC 2007

On Thu, Nov 15, 2007 at 07:50:54AM -0900, Jeff Spaleta wrote:
> On Nov 15, 2007 7:01 AM, Olivier Galibert <galibert at pobox.com> wrote:
> > - once you rpm -e --nodeps it, you find out that the "network" service
> >   is not on by default either (liveCD install)
> Perhaps we need to either make it even more clear what the usage case
> for the desktop livecd actually is.  I thought it was clear.  Or
> perhaps there is a compelling need for a server livecd that uses the
> legacy network stack by default.

Well, I would never have guessed that static IPs required specific
massaging and legacy network support.  Especially since it's a very
visible option of the installer in a mandatory dialog window.

At least if a message was added saying "any changes to this network
dialog will be ignored", you could get some free advertising on the
Daily WTF.

> Either way, the desktop livecd we
> are offering for F8 isn't intended to be the basis for situations for
> all networking scenarios.  That is why we continue to include the
> legacy network stack and why the legacy network stack is used by
> default on the traditional dvd install.
> I'm sort of confused by your statements concerning the inability to
> turn NetworkManager off without having to remove the rpm.

I can only say I must have been confused too.  I looked for it in
chkconfig --list and managed to miss it.  Having it in chkconfig is
infinitely more sane.  My blood pressure just reduced by an order of

> In any event you should be able to turn off the NetworkManager
> initscript and enable the legacy network initscript if its not already
> running. None of this sysadmin activity requires uninstalling rpms.

Yup.  Having the standard install ignore and ever partially destroy
configurations the installer itself proposed to set is plain rude

> -jef"Spends quite a large amount of time in buildings containing rooms
> that could be called 'labs' where most of the computers are immobile
> and yet the network admins use a consistent dhcp scheme with mac
> addressing  to register each and every computer on the network unless
> there is a demonstrated need for a static ip in which case you can
> request one. NetworkManager works just fine for 'lab' workstations
> here."spaleta

What's the point, though, unless you're in a setup where 90%+ of the
computers change every year[1]?


[1] Known as "University" among other possibilities

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