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Re: WTF? Inaccessible bug reports?

On Tue, 2007-11-20 at 19:41 +0100, Olivier Galibert wrote:

> At fedora core 5 times, Everything was lost.  Thankfully it is still
> in kickstart, but it makes the initial testing phase more annoying.

Can you explain why you want to actually install all software?  Wouldn't
it be easier to maintain a list of things you do care about?

> Now we're at 8 and I want to try to move to it, but static ip support
> is fucked, and the list of packages on the DVD doesn't even have tcsh,
> which 50% of the people here use. 

That sounds like a bug.  If we're shipping 4 gigs of stuff, no reason
not to include tiny things like this.

>  Installing from the DVD by checking
> all 3 options at the top level doesn't even give you make or gcc,

The goal of the Fedora Developer spin is to be an excellent environment
out of the box specifically for this.

> It seems to have
> collectively decided that it should instead cater to the Windows kind
> of people, to the detriment of the Unix ones.  A default installation
> does not have a compiler. 

The default Live CD does is indeed moving this way.  Because it's crazy
for people who don't need that stuff to download an entire DVD of
compilers and development headers.  

However - you have two options if you're a developer.  First, download
the developer spin from the start.  Second, use pirut to check the
Development Tools group.  

There is also a third option - write your own kickstart file defining
exactly what you want, and use it to install.

> Basic
> things like static ips and routes are considered legacy and their
> support totally untested and/or considered unimportant. 

The design was that if you don't have NetworkManager enabled, the system
should have functioned exactly as it has for years.  If it didn't, that
was a bug.  There is ongoing work on a unified network system.

> Keep cranking up the pain, guys, and fedora will definitively makes
> its place in the "master of none" category.

I don't know about that - Fedora seems to be doing pretty well actually
at shipping a nice "default desktop" out of the box experience on the
Live CD, while still having the thing I used to love about Debian which
was the comprehensive package set (not-quite-mainstream programming
language environments like OCaml, etc.).

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