ubuntu bulletproof x

Arthur Pemberton pemboa at gmail.com
Mon Sep 3 05:04:55 UTC 2007

On 9/2/07, Douglas McClendon <dmc.fedora at filteredperception.org> wrote:
> Arthur Pemberton wrote:
> > On 9/2/07, Douglas McClendon <dmc.fedora at filteredperception.org> wrote:
> > [ snip ]
> >
> >> And perhaps, if fedora actually respected ubuntu, and kept up with their
> >> advances, rather than exclusively playing catch up, they wouldn't be
> >> having their asses handed to them.
> >
> >
> > What exactly are you talking about? Besides the fact that Fedora and
> > Ubuntu aren't in competition, you seem to have something in mind.
> > Please share.
> Fedora and Ubuntu aren't in competition?

I would say not. Unless the Ubuntu people think they are competing
against Fedora.

> You really don't think there are a significant number of linux users,
> who make a choice between installing and using fedora, vs installing and
> using ubuntu?

They might be. But I wouldn't consider that competition. I've never
gone "darn" I wish user Joe had gone with Fedora.

The only real problem I have with a user choosing Fedora is that I
cannot help them much if they do, since I've never used it, nor really
intend to.

> Really?

Yes really.

> I'll admit that every project/enterprise can be a non-zero-sum game
> where users are attracted that were not previously using a similar
> product/project.  But to claim that there is no competition for users
> between fedora and ubunutu is ludicrous,
> IM-not-as-humble-as-it-ought-to-be-O.

Well I don't really see competition for users as a real competition.
And I certainty don't see any effort on Fedora side being put in to
attract users (for better or worse) Maybe Ubuntu team really thinks
there is some serious competition going on, I guess that would explain
some things.

> >> Yes, I know redhat has learned well from microsoft, that the way to be
> >> successful is to let others do the expensive trailblazing, and then only
> >> copy the trails that led to success, rather than those that led to
> >> failure.
> >
> >
> > Feel free to ask some kernel maintainer how much Canonical contributes
> > to the kernel.
> And what percentage of lines of code in fedora is the kernel?
> kernel != distro.

I'm glad you point that out. Seems like things Fedora do are more
globally useful than what Ubuntu does. Since, for example,
advancements to the kernel help everyone, advancements to the Ubuntu
distro help mostly Ubuntu.

> I'm not saying you don't have a valid point.  But in the open source
> world, where everybody is sharing yesterday's work equally, because that
> is the beauty of it, the question is "what have you done for me lately?"


> It would seem...  that going by the number of users ubuntu is pulling
> in, that they have been doing something for their users.  Something that
> IMO, fedora would be wise to respect and emulate.

Respect maybe... I'm not really sure about the emulate part.

> I don't care if you
> disagree, that is just what I think.


>  Note, I don't mean emulate to the
> point of changing what fedora has learned to do right, over it's long
> history.  I just mean that ajax's original response, sounded an aweful
> lot like "these ubuntu folks are just marketing work that we did".  When
> in fact, after a little digging at the real issue, it becomes apparent
> that in order to make something "bulletproof", you have to be willing to
> do some things that for perhaps quite valid reasons, ajax and fedora
> seem quite unwilling to do.  (i.e. use data from inf file on windows
> driver cd, at the expense of that tactic lowering the pressure on
> monitor manufacturers to not ship monitors with non existent, or non
> working edid implementations).

Ok... I guessing calling it "bulletproof" anything just screams
marketing to some people

> >> I have no problem with that attitude, I think it is
> >> intelligent.  But please, this is just a mailinglist where people
> >> routinely talk about blowing goats.
> >
> >
> > That's way beyond an exaggeration.
> Yes, but it was kind of funny wasn't it :)

It wasn't a very picture for my mind actually.

> >> So don't tell me to STFU like the
> >> rest of the people on this list can't handle the signal/noise ratio.
> >
> >
> > I can't. There's way too much noise on this particular thread.
> And you are participating, rather than ignoring it because...?

I ignored it at first, that's why the noise got to high. Should have
made attention from the start. The subject didn't seem constructive,
but the lifespan of the thread got me interesting

> I presume you do use a threaded email reader?  Or at least can visually
> ignore a topic based on subject line?

Yes and Yes

> -dmc

Fedora 7 : sipping some of that moonshine
( www.pembo13.com )

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