My 2 cents on the whole Fedora to succeed as global wide deployed desktop are...

Martin Sourada martin.sourada at
Mon Sep 3 12:58:33 UTC 2007

On Mon, 2007-09-03 at 14:25 +0200, "Jóhann B. Guðmundsson" wrote:
> Faster system-start/shutdown!  Service need to start on demand rather 
> then during the boot up process or
> at least if anaconda/kudzu don't detect it don't enable it ( bluetooth, 
> printer service sis etc. ) It's better to have
> the user to go through setup/installation/initializations process ( they 
> are used to it )
> and  have  faster  startup than enable lots of unwanted/unneeded service 
> during startup "for everything works solution"!
+1 for this from here, BUT. Most of the nowadays notebooks has bluetooth
in them, but it's turned off by default. You turn it on usually hitting
or switching some button. As it is usually connected via USB internaly,
it will not get detected by Anaconda or Kudzu, unless turned on. The
bluetooth service, when running, however detects that bluetooth was
plugged/turned on and appear in systray (unless set otherwise). While
this is true for bluetooth, it might be similar for other services. 

I think we should rather take a loooong thought and add to FirstBoot one
screen for selecting services, which would be easy and simple to use.
You would have there a combo with Desktop/Notebook/Server choices, and
some checkboxes for optional services (but with sane names). I can
imagine that as nobody needs bluetooth on server, on Desktop nearly
nobody needs running power manager, etc. We should take a thought and
decide what services should be enabled by default and what services
should be easily available for user enabling during first boot (most
likely the cups one, but MUST be called something like Printer Support).

> Application need to be able to adjust firewall to allow access for them 
> selves. We don't like it but they noob user will and if
> your arguments are, the application will mess up my highly complicated 
> netfilter/iptables firewall, routing rules than your
> smart enough to be able to *hash* an check box who would disable this 
> feature in system-config-security, or at least offer
> a wider selection of services to open in s-c-s especially  those who 
> need more than just an port opening ( protocol 47 48 50 51 etc.. ).
> The noob user is not able to create there own *Custom* firewall rules.
I hope I am no so geeky user, but to this I'd tell NO, NO, NO. If
opening ports, than not automatically, but via system-config-firewall.
If it is designed nice enough I think everyone can handle it. SELinux is
another topic though... But I don't use it, so here I cannot make any

> Service should be bound to certain interface ( lo eth* ) instead being 
> configured default to listen to *.
It cannot be? (I really don't know)

> Let the majority fedora user community decide what  should be the 
> default application to use in gnome/kde to open/play/view etc files
> and which application will come with default installation ( in gnome/kde 
> ), do research in what people are adding/changing/replacing
> to get better hint of  what should be used as default app behavior or 
> better yet let fedora user vote what should be used in new release in fedora
> ( browser pluggin maybe that would ask user to vote on what ( 
> apps/fetures ) they want to see in next release of fedora vote counted and
> implemented after dev freeze? ).
+1 for this. The default applications need rethink, as well as default
starters (the apps icons on panel). I think we need not to do a survey,
mugshot serves good for that purpose [1].

> Application user interface should be kept simple and simple to use with 
> advanced menu feature for the advanced user.  
Simple? Go for Gnome. Advanced? Go for KDE. I know, it's a lot of
simplification, but generally people who want to set up everything use
KDE and people who want things just work use GNOME. But being advanced
user does not necessarily mean that you go with KDE... I don't think we
need improvements in this case (maybe the pirut/pup and system-config-*,
but that is being worked on continually).

> Things should work as much as possible out of the box .
> 99% what normal user is doing ( surfing the web, reading his email, 
> writing his paper etc should work out of the box ).
> There must be a (legal)way to enable 3 party repos during the 
> installation process and set these things up for the noob user.
> ( moving the legal liability from fedora to the user, disclaimer or 
> something he has to read, approve and press ok for ).
> If not move the Fedora HQ to Europe and create a legal and handicapped 
> Fedora
> spin to be released in the states since everybody is so keen on suing 
> everybody in the states.
> ( we still have some sanity and dignity left here in Europe, I said some 
> :-)  For their defence the states are young as a nation
> maybe this will grow of them. )
+1, but with this you should rather go ask on fedora/redhat legal. I
don't think we could move Fedora HQ to Europe, but maybe there could be
a legal way, how to help user with enabling third party repos (most
likely livna or fresh, but not both) during the installation process.

> Offer encryption on user sensitive data during install or even by 
> default on hardrive.
>  ( browser cache, email cache etc or maybe offer the user to have his 
> /home on encrypted partion ).
> What we do ( Surf the web,what we spend our money on etc ) is being 
> monitor/catalog/profiled enough as is. 
> Atleas if somebody gets his hands on your box/drive/laptop lets give him 
> hard time to actually get your data.
AFAIK this is being worked on.



> Lets try to start do see things from noob user perspective and not 
> advanced/dev user perspective.
> We advanced/developers can handle our selfs the noob cant!
> Best regards
>                   Johann B.
> Ps.
>      Why was minimal install ( no gui ) removed from anaconda?
> /Fedora by the user for the user.../
> -- 
> Johann B. Gudmundsson. RHCE,CCSA
> Unix System Engineer.
> IT Management.
> Reiknistofnun University of Iceland.
> Taeknigardi, Dunhaga 5.			Email:		johannbg at
> IS-107 Reykjavik.			Phone:		+354-525-4267
> Iceland.				  Fax:		+354-552-8801 
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