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Re: Call for vote: Nautilus use Browser view for fedora 11

On Fri, 2008-12-19 at 16:40 -0900, Jeff Spaleta wrote:
> But I said I'd play. So let's play.  What are people doing wrong in
> how they are communicating their disagreement?

I said I didn't intend to fight this, but given that you want to
play, I'll play. 

I will not discuss things at an abstract level, that's not useful.
I'll try to refocus the discussion around the issue at hand.

But first, let me state some assumptions:
 1. Most people that have used a compute on planet Earth are
    not familiar with a "spatial" mode, as most people use Windows
    and it uses the "browser" mode for 20+ years.
    (BTW the Windows market share seems to be around 90%)
 2. We have the "Principle of least astonishment" as a good
    rule of thumb in UI design:
 3. The spatial/browser mode is very much within the "look&feel"
    of a distro, and falls quire reasonably within the realm of
    things that can be changed by a distro.

If you put 1&2 together, it's pretty clear that we should change 
this behavior unless we have really good reason to do so.

The original change was shoved down people's throats quite
unceremoniously, without any number, voting, survey, etc, all
the time ignoring the current status quo. We were told to wait,
we would get used to it. We didn't. It follows that it's quite
reasonable to ask that we change back.

So what do we get for asking that we see this changed? 
  - snide remarks
  - we are ask to produce numbers nobody can produce
  - we are sent on wild goose chances "upstream" when this
    is a packages maintained by RH.

All of these responses are painfully frustrating, because everybody
involved knows that they are just excuses for not coming out and
   "This will not change because we don't want to. Don't search for
    rhyme or reason, it's just the way we want it."

I can live with such an answer. I know where we stand. 

But being asked (and made fun of in a condescending manner) to "prove"
either obvious things, or near impossible numbers like the exact
percentage of GNOME users who prefer A over B... Who does that? How many
of the changes are being held to that standard? This is as close to
a wild goose chase as you'll ever get. It's frustrating.

Is this the way to involve the community? I claim these are clear
cut example of Fedora failing to listen and engage the community
in a constructive manner. It's not the first time. 

But hey, these things happen, we can work around them. What's not cool
is the attitude that it's OK to diss the users. That just sucks the
fun out of being part of Fedora.

Dimi Paun <dimi lattica com>
Lattica, Inc.

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