Call for vote: Nautilus use Browser view for fedora 11

[Jeff Spaleta]

On Sat, Dec 20, 2008 at 2:36 PM, Dimi Paun <dimi at lattica.com> wrote:

> And you know what? We *have* hard numbers! We know quite well the
> percentage of people using Windows and MacOSX. It is close to 95%. Every
> time I pointed that out it was completely ignored.

I'm seeing the same argumentation being made in upstream
desktop-devel-list discussions back in December 2005.  Do you expect
the same arguments to be more persuasive now? I don't think that's a
rational thing to expect.  Honestly I'm not seeing anything new in
terms of argument that I can't find in a previous round of upstream
discussion going as far back as 2005 if not earlier, in the concerns
expressed in the original discussion from 2002 on nautilus-list. No
one here asked Mark to bring this up...again.  No one here asked Mark
to make the same arguments...again.  Noone here has told him or you to
do exactly the same things which have failed to bring change in the
past.   But that's exactly what you are doing. These exact same
arguments were used in upstream discussion in 2005.

There is a long history here, the approach you are taking hasn't
worked in the past.  If you are unwilling to try a different approach
and instead choose to view suggestions as to different approaches to
take as being condescending and ludicrous instead of helpful, then
that's your decision. But I will say that I think you are behaving
irrationally, in your continued fervent support of your rational
argument as the only argument worth supporting.  Its just not rational
to expect a different outcome to the discussion than we have seen
before unless a new approach is taken.  There's nothing new here in
terms of information or thought.

It's simply not enough for you to believe that your arguments are
sufficient. History shows these arguments aren't connecting and are
not persuasive.  Keep the objective in mind.  The goal is not to be
right, you are not winning points for being rational or 'tight' in
your argument making. The goal is to persuade others to make a change
you desire.  Hammering away at them with an argument that has been
used repeatedly for years now, and has so far  been unpersuasive, is
not going to achieve the goal.

>
> I have presented a fairly tight argument why the default was not chosen
> wisely. Did I receive *one* decent counter argument? Stuff along the
> lines of "Come back with several solid usability studies" is just
> ludicrous.

Dimi, words like 'ludicrous' could be considered representative of a
condescending attitude.  Be wary of emotive speech like that. As a
proponent of rational thought, help others discuss this rationally by
tempering your own speech so as to avoid baiting emotional outbursts
from others.

-jef