Proposal: Rolling Release

[Ralf Corsepius]

On Wed, 2008-11-12 at 09:33 -0300, Horst H. von Brand wrote:
> Ralf Corsepius <rc040203 at freenet.de> wrote:
> > On Tue, 2008-11-11 at 12:51 -0600, Rex Dieter wrote:
> > > Ralf Corsepius wrote:
> > > 
> > > > On Tue, 2008-11-11 at 12:34 -0600, Rex Dieter wrote:
> > > >> Ralf Corsepius wrote:
> > >  
> > > >> <sarcasm>
> > > >> Who really needs all that fedora infrastructure, peer/package review,
> > > >> qa/testing, anyway.  Much easier to skip all that.
> > > >> </sarcasm>
> > > 
> > > > Well, ... if the fedora infrastructure was really serving contributors,
> > > > if peer/package reviews were functional, if testing was functional, then
> > > > this all would not be an issue.
> > > 
> > > > The unpleasant truth is: It isn't.
> > > 
> > > Standard response: how exactly isn't it?
> > 
> > Let me pick just 2 examples:
> 
> > * infrastructure: Fedora's infrastructure in first place mean struggling
> > with a zoo of more or less arguable processes/work-flows (freezes, FTBP,
> > wikis ...), a zoo of more or less functional tools (bugzilla, FAS,
> > packagedb, koji, bodhi, ...) and a zoo of bureaucracy they are
> > implementing.
> 
> How exactly do you propose getting rid of that and _get the work done_?
One step would have been rel-eng not only branch in CVS, but also to
branch the repos, ....

Many hundred of bugs are waiting for Fedora's infrastructure team to
look into ...

> Complex work requires coordination. Get over it.

> > * testing: The parties testing a contributed package in first place is
> > the package's upstream, the packager and this package's end-users.
> > Fedora only contributes to testing a package insofar, as having a
> > package in Fedora widens the "potential user-base" of a package.
> 
> Dead wrong. Upstream can only test i /their/ environment, not as part of
> Fedora.
And, where is the problem? 

Are you seriously telling us Fedora's testing group was testing all the
packages in Fedora? They might be testing some very limited set of
packages but claiming they were testing more than this is simply
laughable.

> > >   How exactly do you propose to make it better?
> > I guess you should know my answers :-)
> 
> Humor us.
I will tell you on PM.

> > Points to getting started with would be 
> > * "getting rid of the freezes"
> 
> Impossible. If you want to ship something halfway tested, you need to stop
> the firehose of updates and concentrate on fixing.
Rubbish - If Fedora wants their upcoming releases tested, they need to release them for _testing_.

> > * "getting rid of the update delays"
> 
> What do you mean?
Waiting weeks ans months for some Fedora deity to lean down to push a
package into the repos.

> > * improve the tools contributors are forced to use.
> 
> Help out it that then.
It's rel-eng who pushed them onto comtributors. Shall they do their job.