starting Fedora Server SIG

[Jeremy Katz]

On Fri, 2008-11-14 at 01:24 -0500, Seth Vidal wrote:
> On Thu, 13 Nov 2008, Bill Nottingham wrote:
> > How is NM-dispatcher a developer service? Similarly, nm-tool is
> > at least quicker than 'ip addr ls ; ip route ls ; cat /etc/resolv.conf'.
> 
> and ifconfig -a works on multiple platforms, so it's the one that will 
> win.

ifconfig -a doesn't show all the information if you're doing multiple
addresses on an adapter.  

> > As for resources... just to point out that NM (at least on my laptop)
> > uses 2.5MB resident... pretty much exactly the same amount as the 5
> > unused mingetty processes that many 'server' admins screamed needed to be
> > kept always.
> 
> 
> nm, dbus in particular:
> dbus: 3M
> NM: 17M here
> 
> that's 20M vs 9M total for all the gettys running here.

You're looking at VSZ, not RSS. 

> Look, for the desktop in particular NM makes a lot of sense, I am not 
> arguing otherwise.
> 
> For the server it is a solution looking for a problem.
> 
> The reaction you're seeing is people who don't care about the desktop 
> trying to figure out why desktop and/or developer oriented features are 
> causing them to have to change their server deployment/config habits.
> 
> You can't tell me you're surprised by the pushback, Bill.

Let me change the wording of your argument a little...

"Look, for the desktop in particular Linux makes a lot of sense, I am
not arguing otherwise.

For the server it is a solution looking for a problem.  Solaris works
just fine thank you very much."

It's *exactly* the arguments I heard with switching out Solaris stuff
when I was at NCSU.


One of the things about progress and getting to a more mature *platform*
that is suitable across a wide range of uses is change.  I'm not saying
that NetworkManager is perfect yet for the server needs.  But having
people that want to run a server say "pound sand, go the hell away, we
don't want to run your new-fangled stuff" doesn't help us get to where
it is.  Maintaining two systems in parallel is very much a long-run
losing position.  

Jeremy