starting Fedora Server SIG

[Jeremy Katz]

On Fri, 2008-11-14 at 12:52 -0500, Seth Vidal wrote:
> On Fri, 14 Nov 2008, Jeremy Katz wrote:
> > One of the things about progress and getting to a more mature *platform*
> > that is suitable across a wide range of uses is change.  I'm not saying
> > that NetworkManager is perfect yet for the server needs.  But having
> > people that want to run a server say "pound sand, go the hell away, we
> > don't want to run your new-fangled stuff" doesn't help us get to where
> > it is.  Maintaining two systems in parallel is very much a long-run
> > losing position.
> 
> I think you're confused as to what I'm saying. You're hoisting up this 
> straw man that's neo-luddite and that's not me.
> 
> I think I'm tired of both of these perspectives:
>   'ALL NEW IS GOOD'
>   'ALL NEW IS BAD'

That's fair enough.  I'm the first to sometimes say new is bad and
sometimes it's good.  And sometimes (actually, many or most times I'd
say) it starts bad and through a concerted effort and some getting
pissed off at the bad, it gets to good. :)

> I'd like a bit more of:
>   "not all this new shit works and some of it should not have been started"
>   "sometimes you do have to throw one away"
> 
> And finally a bit more patience that changing systems which have been in 
> place for over a decade is going to cause some angst. That angst can be 
> minimized if the response to it is not so vehement and impatient. We have 
> a lot of vocal people who seem to think any resistance to change means you 
> want nothing to change. And we have a lot of vocal people who seem to 
> think that rethinking how we're doing thing is akin to heresy.

I don't think that "should not have been started" is really ever the
right answer.  Like you said, sometimes you have to throw one away.  And
the only way you learn that is by starting, trying things out, and
finding the problems.  

And unfortunately, sometimes the only way you get people to pay
attention and start pointing out problems is to force the issue :/
There's also the problem of doing something new, having people adjust to
it, and then realizing it needs to change and then having people
complain about that :-)

Jeremy