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Re: Pulseaudio : lots of issues, how can I help?

Colin Walters wrote:
On Fri, Sep 12, 2008 at 5:59 PM, Matthew Woehlke
<mw_triad users sourceforge net> wrote:
Colin Walters wrote:
We're going to be removing the legacy non-X system consoles by default
in the long run.
Um... what happens then when X is broken?

What happens when the linux kernel is broken?

...then you boot from a disk with a bootable kernel.

What happens when /bin/sh is broken?

Hmm... then you probably need a rescue disk to replace /bin/sh.

What happens when NetworkManager is broken?

You fix it :-). You've degenerated from errors that result in an unusable system (meaning: cannot boot to a command prompt from which, at the least, basic repair tools are available) to errors that are potentially mere annoyances.

Let's go back to my question:

What happens when X is broken?

Then you boot in non-X mode.

Oh, wait. You want to remove non-X mode. You want me to have to go find a rescue disk, just because 'yum update nvidia' wasn't such a good idea? No, thanks; I'd rather have X fail to start and dump me at a normal console from which I can fix the problem *without rebooting*, much less needing to dig up a rescue disk :P.

Currently non-functioning X is like non-functioning network; annoying, but not crippling (kernel still works, shell still works, still possible to run commands, do debugging, etc., without rebooting or a rescue disk). You're proposing to make it a system-crippling problem. I will suggest that making a known-fragile component *required* for a functional system, including any chance of repair (short of a rescue disk), is the worst idea I've heard in a while. (But I /have/ heard it before. It's called "Windows". YTH do we want to copy /that/?)

...not to mention that X is bloated and completely unneeded overhead on servers. Even Microsoft realizes this; I hear 2008 has a non-GUI mode for exactly this reason.

Also, one thing I would like to see Fedora install by default is a
compressed recovery image, rather than just multiple kernels.

That would help, but would still require rebooting all the time until X is working (anyone say "PITA"?). Currently, "bad kernel" is the only situation that needs a reboot to test if it works. (Well, non-working /bin/sh depends on why it is non-working; if it's a bad binary, you can try to run it as a subshell, so no reboot needed. If it's an interaction with other bits of the system, it might fall into the 'needs reboot to test' category. But non-working X currently is comfortably NOT in the 'needs reboot' category.)

What? This signature /again/?

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