My first DontZap use case while testing F11 beta

Matthew Garrett mjg at
Fri Apr 17 16:52:06 UTC 2009

On Fri, Apr 17, 2009 at 08:43:28AM -0700, Christopher Stone wrote:
>  2009/4/16 Jesse Keating <jkeating at>:
> > On Fri, 2009-04-17 at 01:37 +0500, Suren Karapetyan wrote:
> >> You will not find anyone @RH who will agree that
> >> previews behavior was better
> >>
> > On the contrary, you'll likely find many people who work for Red Hat
> > that would prefer the old behavior, they're just not wasting their time
> > by arguing about it on a distribution mailing list.
> So what are they doing instead? Absolutely nothing?  How ridiculous.
> Let's just make a bunch of extremely bad decisions and keep bad
> defaults because actually trying to convince someone that the defaults
> or decisions people make are bad is pointless.

The people to convince are the maintainers of the code in question, and 
in the general case sprawling threads on distribution mailing lists 
aren't a good way to do that. Some worthwhile ideas came out of this 
discussion and were implemented - however, at this point it's just 
repeating the same arguments over and over again, and argument ad 
nauseum is not the most convincing approach.

One thing that should be borne in mind is that the Fedora X maintainers 
are a subset of the upstream X maintainers. Convincing Fedora to change 
the default is likely to be an equivalent task to convincing upstream to 
change the default. The only real way that any divergence could develop 
would be for the Fedora maintainers to be overruled.

My understanding is that if FESCO is unwilling to do this then the issue 
could (in principle) be raised to the board. If that doesn't lead 
anywhere then your issue becomes one with the overall governance of the 
project, and that's best discussed somewhere other than on a technical 
development mailing list.

In summary: The technical issues raised are well understood by the 
maintainers. Unless there's any further insight into those issues then 
this is not the mailing list to continue the discussions. It's simply no 
longer a development issue.

Matthew Garrett | mjg59 at

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