My first DontZap use case while testing F11 beta
anders at trudheim.co.uk
Fri Apr 17 20:32:21 UTC 2009
* Lars E. Pettersson <lars at homer.se> [20090417 21:37]:
> On 04/17/2009 08:38 PM, Anders Rayner-Karlsson wrote:
>> While I am not a representative figure of the user population, I had a
>> case today where:
> Yes, but a new Linux user will not be able to do what you describe. They
> will try all things they can come up with, pressing the keyboard blindly
> etc., and finally press the reset button, or power cycle the computer.
You are not convincing me that Zap should be enabled by default with
that statement. Maybe I am coloured by experience though.
> I can not see that this is a good way to solve a problem where a few (!)
> persons accidentally have pressed ctrl-alt-backspace in the past.
The counter-point is that it is hard to see a good or viable reason
for having a on-by-default ability to kill your session, your running
applications and lose data, without confirmation or warning.
> Ctrl-alt-backspace *is* useful, and should, IMHO, be *on* by default, as
> it always has been. If upstream thinks otherwise, Fedora should be able
> to set it to on, as, as seen in this thread, and apparently in a lot of
> others, a lot of users are *against* removing this feature.
I am not arguing that it is useful or not. I have use for SysRq's and
find them useful, but I am not arguing for them to be on by
default. In any event, flogging a stinking horse carcass repeatedly
won't get the carcass winning the next Grand National. ;)
>From one perspective, a safe default while still allowing skilled
users to switch on "poweruser" features is a better starting point
from a usability argument.
"Once you know how to start a fire, you can proceed to singe your
eyebrows off with it."
>> C-A-Bs is akin to Alt-SysRq-C if you have SysRq's enabled. The default
>> setting should be "off" so that people by accident can't trigger
>> it. If you need it - you get to enable it yourself. That is a sensible
>> default for a debug function.
> How often does people actually accidentally press ctrl-alt-backspace? I
> have *never* done it.
By same argument, taking a rather tongue in cheek attitude, how often
does countries with nuclear ICBM's launch them by accident?
While you certainly can present an argument based on that you have
_never_ done this by accident, I'd like to point you at
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Argument_from_ignorance for reasons why
this is, IMHO, not a sustainable platform to argue from.
> I do not consider ctrl-alt-backspace a debug function. Sadly programs
> still hangs X once in a while, and having a keystroke available to press
> to kill X, when all you need to do is killing X, is good thing to have,
> and it should, IMHO, be available till we have a X that does not hang as
> often as it still does. Why having to reboot the machine when you
> actually only need to restart X? It does not make any sense, at least
> not to me.
While I disagree with your classification of the C-A-Bs functionality,
lets just agree to disagree on that, I agree that some programs still
cause issues with X (having today encountered it first hand).
As has been explained *extensively* already, you will still have the
ability to do what you desire - but you will need to (trivially)
enable this yourself in future. As also has been posited already, this
has been blown way out of proportion, quite possibly based on
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