Abandon "Default Desktop"

[Arthur Pemberton]

On Thu, Apr 30, 2009 at 4:18 AM, Rahul Sundaram
<sundaram at fedoraproject.org> wrote:
> On 04/30/2009 02:22 PM, Roberto Ragusa wrote:
>> Adam Williamson wrote:
>>
>>> We're circling. I already said that even if it doesn't really matter
>>> which option you pick, making someone make a decision they don't
>>> understand frustrates them. That's the problem, not the 'danger' that
>>> they might pick the 'wrong choice'.
>>
>> Eh eh, the discussion is about giving a user the choice to select
>> the desktop he wants.
>
> Not really. Users clearly already have the choice. If you like KDE, pick
> the KDE Live CD which is prominently highlighted in the download page.

I think our understand of "prominently" differs. The get-fedora page
just has a link to the KDE page which is directed at KDE fans.

> This discussion is about forcing the user to pick one by emphasizing
> political correctness by not picking defaults which is the worst of all
> possible choices.

Well I don't think it's really politically correct either way but
okay. How exactly is a regular Fedora user expected to choose KDE? The
download page is for KDE fans... how do you become a KDE fan in Fedora
exactly?

> I don't see why I shouldn't ask for Xfce and ratpoison
> as among the choices offered

I'm not sure the XFCE devs would appreciate you equating their desktop
environment with a window manager.

> if we are going to take this line of argument further.

There is no reason to, it's just about the desktop

> What about offering the choice of emacs or vi and
> asking the user to pick one before proceeding with the installation?
>
>> The GNOME desktop tries to avoid user choices.
>> The KDE desktop tries to encourage user choices.
>>
>> And the decision on allowing a desktop choice divides people
>> in two camps:
>> 1) those that think the user should not choose
>> 2) those that think the user should have to choose
>
>>
>> I'd bet people in 1) are GNOME users and people in 2) are KDE users.
>>
>> I'm in 2) and I'm a KDE user, I'd guess you instead use GNOME ;-)
>
> This is a broad misgeneralization especially since these desktop
> environment learn from each other all the time and have even converged
> on a look and feel or some standards or share implementation details in
> many cases. The personal choice of a desktop environment is far more
> nuanced than can be adequately described in a installer (ie) that is the
> wrong place to describe them.


That may be true, but you not really giving the theoretical new Fedora
users much of a chance to make a nuanced personal choice of a desktop.

The only valid conclusions that can be drawn from the download, for
example, is that there is Fedora, and Fedora KDE. And since a user
most likely came looking for Fedora, they'll probably just click on
that one. You could say clicking on that one is a choice... but it's
not equivalent to choosing between Fedora Gnome and Fedora KDE.

It would make more sense for the Fedora Board to just come out and say
that they don't like anything but Gnome, and would prefer not to have
any resources go towards anything but Gnome. Because having
maintainers almost beg for a more equal access to potential users is
really kind of sad.

-- 
Fedora 9 : sulphur is good for the skin
( www.pembo13.com )