[Fedora-spins] Spins SIG Meeting(s) / Agenda!

[Josh Boyer]

On Thu, Jan 15, 2009 at 07:58:59PM +0530, Rahul Sundaram wrote:
>> That one came from me.  Having spins fail to compose during the week
>> that rel-eng is trying to get a milestone (Alpha, Beta, Preview) out the
>> door is simply an easy way to drop the Spin entirely.
>>
>> It's not more cumbersome.  It's putting the responsibility for the spin
>> into the hands of the person that cares about it the most, which is the
>> spin owner.  So the week before a milestone release is going to be busy
>> for the SIG and the owners, but that is part of being a Spin owner.
>
> I don't know what you want from a report and full fledged testing and  
> reporting every two weeks is just not feasible for multiple spins for me  
> as a spin owner.  If you want just to know if it composes or not or if  
> it is the right size and things like that, automated composes already  
> give that information. Don't ask me to vote on this incomplete proposal.  
> Please hash out the details in this list first and then get to the  
> voting part. Premature voting would leave us with just as much confusion  
> as before.
>
>> Look, creating an official Spin is not as simple as "here is my kickstart
>> file, go build this please." 
>
> No, it is not. I have to spend a lot of time, getting that kickstart  
> file in place first. It isn't a simple matter of running some composes  
> and calling it a day. There is a heck lot of finicky details to take  
> care of. Rawhide breaks my compose in subtle ways. You are in rel-eng.  
> You know the amount of work it takes to get alpha,beta and general  
> releases out. Are you really asking me to do that work every two weeks  
> for multiple spins? You can't be serious.  This feels more like a  
> punishment that I have to suffer because other spins broke.

I'm asking that the spins owners don't show up on release day with broken
spins for rel-eng to compose.  I'm asking them to make sure their spin
boots and isn't DOA when users download it.  I'm asking them to make sure
the items (or *gasp* features) that make their spin unique actually work
when you boot the spin.

Rawhide is a moving target.  Everyone knows this.  Everyone also knows that
stuff gets shoved into it at the last minute before a freeze date (which is
a separate problem that needs solving, but is the truth).  So, if you can
accomplish the above requirements without doing composes and testing every
two weeks, then we can discuss that.  The track record thus far has not been
wonderful (and no, that is not a statement about your specific spins).

>> The bar has been raised, and this is not a bad thing.
>
> Yes, as long as you dont arbitrarily the raise the amount of work  
> someone has to do without any justification and not helping them in the  
> process. I was once getting blamed for a Xfce spin compose that failed  
> because Fedora infrastructure was running a updated (slightly broken)  
> version of livecd-tools than the GA version. How about giving me access,  
> so that I can do composes in the same environment that you do? Help me  
> with this instead of just adding more overhead.

We did talk about having compose boxes available for the Spins SIG to
use.  That really has nothing to do with the process itself though, and
is really not a requirement.

There are certainly things that could be done to make this at least more
efficient from a technical standpoint for the spins owners.  But those
things are going to have to show up over time.  And if it's too much
work in the meantime, do a Remix.

josh