[Fedora-spins] Spins SIG Meeting(s) / Agenda!

Jeroen van Meeuwen kanarip at kanarip.com
Thu Jan 15 15:43:14 UTC 2009

Rahul Sundaram wrote:
> Jeroen van Meeuwen wrote:
>> And how do you think your comments are not in the new process we've 
>> come up with during FUDCon?
> It is not since I wasn't in FUDCon.

You make it sound so logic, I can only agree with you. You're right. I 
hadn't read anything, I can't remember anything, let alone keep in mind 
what everyone's ideas, comments and recommendations were and shape them 
into the skeleton (read: *THE SKELETON*) of a new process. I'm 
definitely a fail.

>> - "what should a report contain?"
>> I'm not sure yet, have any ideas? This has settled down just under 3 
>> days, and it hasn't even been voted upon yet. Do you want all the 
>> details now? You sure? Because that would make it more permanent and 
>> less flexible then the state it's in now (still open for suggestions).
> Here is what I suggest:
> * Postpone the IRC meeting and voting now. It is too early and there has 
> not been enough details to warrant a vote yet.

NO! Period. Exclamation-mark. Fullstop. Why not? Because our next 
meeting would be only ~2 weeks prior to Beta freeze. Don't recall the 
timeline exactly, don't care enough to look it up for you.

> * Post a summary of what was discussed in FUDCon and the new proposal 
> discussed in the FUDCon. Communicate as much details as possible so that 
> spin owners can understand why the changes were made and ask for input 
> in this list and not on a IRC meeting. Wait for a week or two so that we 
> can discuss it further and then maybe arrange a IRC meeting.

I did ask for feedback on the list, so that the IRC meeting would only 
have the vote. So, here's a couple of suggestions for you:

- stop
- step away from the keyboard
- think of a couple of questions to which the answers may be valuable in 
moving us forward.
- post those questions on the list

>> - you're confused on what process it is we're talking about
>> Suggested solution: read the Spins_Process page on the Wiki
>> - you're looking for what the process was and how we streamlined it
>> Suggested solution: read the Spins_Process page on the Wiki
> I already did. You would know that if you had read my mails since I was 
> specific and pointed out a few examples where there aren't enough details.

Obviously, I haven't read the rest of your email, doh! I'm obviously 
responding to things I don't read?

>> - you're eager to know what needs to be done for XFCE and other spins 
>> you submitted
>> Suggested solution: Await what the Spins SIG comes up with after the 
>> meeting, since this item is on the agenda
> Since I am part of Spin SIG, I am giving my feedback to try and steer 
> the decision in the right direction.

I think you're confusing blunt criticism with constructive commentary.

>> - you have an opinion about Spins being Spins vs. Features
>> Suggested solution: weight that argument in your vote for the new process
> I can't be in the IRC meeting and I don't think voting without details 
> in the right way to do it. I am explaining it in the list so you can 
> consider it while making the decision.

You're not explaining anything, you're dismissing everything we did for 
reasons of your absence and <insert-the-other-favorite-here>, almost 
entirely similar to how I'm dismissive towards you.

>> - """It would be still viable if the process is outlined. The process 
>> has to be in discussed and in place before FESCo delegates it to 
>> somebody else."""
>> 1) The process is outlined
>> 2) the process has been discussed, with representatives of Rel-eng, 
>> our dear Feature Wrangler, the Spins SIG leader, a few 
>> spin-submitting/maintaining users, a FESCo delegate, and reviewed 
>> afterwards by QA and the Rel-Eng lead. Remember that Rel-Eng in the 
>> first place is the party to whom FESCo delegated responsibility.
> I don't know what was discussed since a summary wasn't posted in this 
> list. Filling in the details would be helpful.

There were no meeting minutes being kept track of during the meeting, 
regrettably. But, in case you want my 5-minute after best-recollection 
of what happened, that has been on the Wiki:


Note that this is a very quick and dirty list of things as I recalled 
them happening in the meeting, not the meeting minutes.

Other pages needed to complete the details on these pages you have so 
far should be in the making but somehow the person tasked to create 
those pages does not seem to be able to find the time to actually do 
what he's intended to do.

>> I could continue but I don't feel like it. I sure hope this email 
>> sounds dismissive enough for you to finally stop arguing over nothing 
>> and continue the part of the thread where I think you may have 
>> actually said something useful.
> If you don't feel I have said anything useful so far, I am sorry to hear 
> that but then, we have nothing more to discuss. Carry on with your 
> meeting and I will deal with the result when it comes to that point. 
> Thanks.

No, thank you!

Kind regards,

Jeroen van Meeuwen

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