From lsdr at lsdr.net Wed Oct 1 02:53:54 2003 From: lsdr at lsdr.net (Luiz Rocha) Date: Tue, 30 Sep 2003 23:53:54 -0300 Subject: docs translation In-Reply-To: <20030930174430.GJ13417@redhat.com> References: <200309290159.13551.lsdr@lsdr.net> <200309300138.45879.lsdr@lsdr.net> <20030930174430.GJ13417@redhat.com> Message-ID: <200309302353.54096.lsdr@lsdr.net> > Separate modules per language is better so everyone doesn't have to > check out all the languages. The bigger the docs get, the more > diskspace this is going to take. Something like fedora-docs and fedora-docs-pt_BR then ? (I saw your other post...) I think it is okay. Could we keep only PO files in the fedora-docs- modules? I mean, to avoid having duplicated stylesheets and css and all in different modules. There is another advantage. If head translators gain -maybe, in the future- CVS commit access, they would only work inside their language module, which would avoid some trouble. > No. It is not necessary, but our internal RH translators have > translated using both methods and feel that using PO files is a > superior method. XML to PO to XML has some advantages such as not > marking computeroutputs as text to be translated since it is direct > output from a configuration file or source code. Another advantage is > that it marks content as fuzzy, which helps if someone just changes a > few words in the master verson. I'm sure Paul or Sarah could expand on > the benefits. Yes, well, I was looking some PO files today and doing some thinking, and I guess the XML to PO to XML would be actually better. > Our RHEL docs are very long, and it works for them. It should work for us too. Is just that I like XML and never worked with PO files, so rejection was a natural instinct. And as Rodrigo pointed out, would be nice to post here or in the website which tools you guys use for this, so we could use the same ones. > I like Karsten's suggestions of having commit messages go to this list > and maybe a different list if the traffic gets annoying. Ed's idea to > not show the diff is a good one as well. If we use a different CVS > server than the current one we are using, we could change the syncmail > script. If we share with devel, I don't think they are going to want > that. Of course, I can also setup a separate CVSROOT for us on the > same server and use a different syncmail. I like'em both too. I like to see diffs, but a nice log would suffice while keep the traffic under control. Oh, and there is another thing I'd like to ask you and the others. In the apache-docs project, they ask for every translation to have a revision by another fluent (or native) speaker of the given language. While this avoids mistakes and increases the quality of the docs, it tends to slow down the translation process. I think it would be nice to ask for revisions but not make it mandatory. What do you guys think about it? -- Luiz Rocha From gavin.henry at magicfx.co.uk Wed Oct 1 08:21:51 2003 From: gavin.henry at magicfx.co.uk (Gavin Henry) Date: Wed, 1 Oct 2003 09:21:51 +0100 Subject: DocBook xml compile errors for doc project. Message-ID: <20031001092151.41164f1a.gavin.henry@magicfx.co.uk> [ghenry at redhat-rukes install-guide]$ make html warning: failed to load external entity "/usr/share/sgml/docbook/xsl-stylesheets /html/chunk-code.xsl" compilation error: file /home/ghenry/fedora-docs/install-guide/../xsl/main-html. xsl line 14 element include xsl:include : unable to load /usr/share/sgml/docbook/xsl-stylesheets/html/chunk- code.xsl Writing ln-legalnotice.html for legalnotice(legalnotice) Hi all, More problems with DocBook. Trying to do the above, compiling html for install-guide and others, always get this error. I don't have a chunk-code.xsl. Should I create a softlink to something else, or do I not have the most recent package. Must be a stupid thing I haven't got. :-) -- Regards, Gavin Henry. Trying to be a RHCE..... http://www.magicfx.co.uk http://www.suretecsystems.com -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 189 bytes Desc: not available URL: From gavin.henry at magicfx.co.uk Wed Oct 1 08:47:50 2003 From: gavin.henry at magicfx.co.uk (Gavin Henry) Date: Wed, 1 Oct 2003 09:47:50 +0100 Subject: DocBook xml compile errors for doc project. In-Reply-To: <20031001092151.41164f1a.gavin.henry@magicfx.co.uk> References: <20031001092151.41164f1a.gavin.henry@magicfx.co.uk> Message-ID: <20031001094750.64171b6d.gavin.henry@magicfx.co.uk> On Wed, 1 Oct 2003 09:21:51 +0100 Gavin Henry wrote: > > [ghenry at redhat-rukes install-guide]$ make html > warning: failed to load external entity > "/usr/share/sgml/docbook/xsl-stylesheets > /html/chunk-code.xsl" > compilation error: file /home/ghenry/fedora-docs/install-guide/../xsl/main-html. > xsl line 14 element include > xsl:include : unable to load /usr/share/sgml/docbook/xsl-stylesheets/html/chunk- > code.xsl > Writing ln-legalnotice.html for legalnotice(legalnotice) > > > Hi all, > > More problems with DocBook. > > Trying to do the above, compiling html for install-guide and others, always get this error. I don't have a chunk-code.xsl. Should I create a softlink to something else, or do I not have the most recent package. > > Must be a stupid thing I haven't got. :-) > Yes, it was a stupid thing. I had an older docbook-style-xsl rpm. Installed the latest rawhide rpm and that fixed it (docbook-style-xsl-1.61.2-2.1) Hope this helps someone else. :) -- Regards, Gavin Henry. Trying to be a RHCE..... http://www.magicfx.co.uk http://www.suretecsystems.com -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 189 bytes Desc: not available URL: From tfox at redhat.com Wed Oct 1 15:34:33 2003 From: tfox at redhat.com (Tammy Fox) Date: Wed, 1 Oct 2003 11:34:33 -0400 Subject: docs translation In-Reply-To: <200309302353.54096.lsdr@lsdr.net> References: <200309290159.13551.lsdr@lsdr.net> <200309300138.45879.lsdr@lsdr.net> <20030930174430.GJ13417@redhat.com> <200309302353.54096.lsdr@lsdr.net> Message-ID: <20031001153432.GB21640@redhat.com> On Tue, Sep 30, 2003 at 11:53:54PM -0300, Luiz Rocha wrote: > > Separate modules per language is better so everyone doesn't have to > > check out all the languages. The bigger the docs get, the more > > diskspace this is going to take. > > Something like fedora-docs and fedora-docs-pt_BR then ? (I saw your other > post...) > > I think it is okay. Could we keep only PO files in the fedora-docs- > modules? I mean, to avoid having duplicated stylesheets and css and all in > different modules. > > There is another advantage. If head translators gain -maybe, in the future- > CVS commit access, they would only work inside their language module, which > would avoid some trouble. > > Exactly. > > No. It is not necessary, but our internal RH translators have > > translated using both methods and feel that using PO files is a > > superior method. XML to PO to XML has some advantages such as not > > marking computeroutputs as text to be translated since it is direct > > output from a configuration file or source code. Another advantage is > > that it marks content as fuzzy, which helps if someone just changes a > > few words in the master verson. I'm sure Paul or Sarah could expand on > > the benefits. > > Yes, well, I was looking some PO files today and doing some thinking, and I > guess the XML to PO to XML would be actually better. > > > > Our RHEL docs are very long, and it works for them. > > It should work for us too. Is just that I like XML and never worked with PO > files, so rejection was a natural instinct. > > And as Rodrigo pointed out, would be nice to post here or in the website > which tools you guys use for this, so we could use the same ones. > > > > I like Karsten's suggestions of having commit messages go to this list > > and maybe a different list if the traffic gets annoying. Ed's idea to > > not show the diff is a good one as well. If we use a different CVS > > server than the current one we are using, we could change the syncmail > > script. If we share with devel, I don't think they are going to want > > that. Of course, I can also setup a separate CVSROOT for us on the > > same server and use a different syncmail. > > I like'em both too. I like to see diffs, but a nice log would suffice while > keep the traffic under control. > > Oh, and there is another thing I'd like to ask you and the others. In the > apache-docs project, they ask for every translation to have a revision by > another fluent (or native) speaker of the given language. While this avoids > mistakes and increases the quality of the docs, it tends to slow down the > translation process. > > I think it would be nice to ask for revisions but not make it mandatory. > What do you guys think about it? > QA is always a good thing. We will probably just have to see how many translators we have. If we have enough for this process, then I am all for it. Tammy > -- > Luiz Rocha > > > -- > fedora-docs-list mailing list > fedora-docs-list at redhat.com > http://www.redhat.com/mailman/listinfo/fedora-docs-list From gavin.henry at magicfx.co.uk Wed Oct 1 18:43:05 2003 From: gavin.henry at magicfx.co.uk (Gavin Henry) Date: Wed, 1 Oct 2003 19:43:05 +0100 Subject: docs etc all gpl? Message-ID: <003c01c3884b$dd531440$f9e3fea9@blackhat007> Hi all, I am writing a manual for squid, squidguard, grsecurity and iptables (not too in depth) for pur networking dept. and I am wondering if all the css, images, Makefiles etc. done by Tammy Fox and others are available for me to use, as they are very nice, and look good. Also I would like to conttribute to the docs project too. Regards. (excuse the use of ms outlook :( ) -- Gavin Henry http://www.magicfx.co.uk http://www.suretecsystems.com From tfox at redhat.com Wed Oct 1 19:03:18 2003 From: tfox at redhat.com (Tammy Fox) Date: Wed, 1 Oct 2003 15:03:18 -0400 Subject: docs etc all gpl? In-Reply-To: <003c01c3884b$dd531440$f9e3fea9@blackhat007> References: <003c01c3884b$dd531440$f9e3fea9@blackhat007> Message-ID: <20031001190318.GI21640@redhat.com> On Wed, Oct 01, 2003 at 07:43:05PM +0100, Gavin Henry wrote: > Hi all, > I am writing a manual for squid, squidguard, grsecurity and iptables (not > too in depth) for pur networking dept. and I am wondering if all the css, > images, Makefiles etc. done by Tammy Fox and others are available for me to > use, as they are very nice, and look good. > css: GPL (already says GPL on the top) Makefile: GPL (just added license and copyright info to top of files) xsl: GPL (already says GPL on the top) stylesheet images (adminition graphics): only distributable with RH and Fedora docs since they are the same ones used in the RHEL docs, long term, we should created ones for Fedora that are GPLed. I added a LICENSE file in the stylesheet-images directory describing how they can be used (with RH or Fedora docs). Does that cover everything in question? > Also I would like to conttribute to the docs project too. > Great! Are there any topics you are interested in writing about? Tammy > Regards. > > (excuse the use of ms outlook :( ) > > -- > Gavin Henry > http://www.magicfx.co.uk > http://www.suretecsystems.com > > > > -- > fedora-docs-list mailing list > fedora-docs-list at redhat.com > http://www.redhat.com/mailman/listinfo/fedora-docs-list From John.Himpel at edwardjones.com Wed Oct 1 19:12:31 2003 From: John.Himpel at edwardjones.com (John.Himpel at edwardjones.com) Date: Wed, 01 Oct 2003 14:12:31 -0500 Subject: docs etc all gpl? In-Reply-To: <20031001190318.GI21640@redhat.com> Message-ID: Tammy, et.al. I am in the process of converting all of the XFree86 documentation to DocBook. One of the things that I have been asked to provide is a StyleGuide very similar to the documentation guide that is now part of the Fedora project. I would like to use much of the Fedora Documentation Guide that describes the tag usage in the XFree86 StyleGuide. The license covering the Documentation Guide is the FDGL. This does not allow me to excerpt the part I would need and discard the rest. If you change the license to GPL, then I cannot use any of it (XFree86 does not allow GPL). Rather they use the X-License. This license is very close to the MIT-License. Daniel Veillard has dual licensed libxml2 and libxslt so that we can distribute them for document generation. We at XFree86 are committed to open source, but we cannot use GPL. Is there a way we can excerpt part of what the Fedora Project has already generated? John > On Wed, Oct 01, 2003 at 07:43:05PM +0100, Gavin Henry wrote: > > Hi all, > > I am writing a manual for squid, squidguard, grsecurity and iptables (not > > too in depth) for pur networking dept. and I am wondering if all the css, > > images, Makefiles etc. done by Tammy Fox and others are available for me to > > use, as they are very nice, and look good. > > > > css: GPL (already says GPL on the top) > > Makefile: GPL (just added license and copyright info to top of files) > > xsl: GPL (already says GPL on the top) > > stylesheet images (adminition graphics): only distributable with RH > and Fedora docs since they are the same ones used in the RHEL docs, > long term, we should created ones for Fedora that are GPLed. I added a > LICENSE file in the stylesheet-images directory describing how they > can be used (with RH or Fedora docs). > > Does that cover everything in question? > > > Also I would like to conttribute to the docs project too. > > > > Great! Are there any topics you are interested in writing about? > > Tammy > > > Regards. > > > > (excuse the use of ms outlook :( ) > > > > -- > > Gavin Henry > > http://www.magicfx.co.uk > > http://www.suretecsystems.com > > > > > > > > -- > > fedora-docs-list mailing list > > fedora-docs-list at redhat.com > > http://www.redhat.com/mailman/listinfo/fedora-docs-list > > > -- > fedora-docs-list mailing list > fedora-docs-list at redhat.com > http://www.redhat.com/mailman/listinfo/fedora-docs-list From gavin.henry at magicfx.co.uk Wed Oct 1 19:12:53 2003 From: gavin.henry at magicfx.co.uk (Gavin Henry) Date: Wed, 1 Oct 2003 20:12:53 +0100 Subject: docs etc all gpl? References: <003c01c3884b$dd531440$f9e3fea9@blackhat007> <20031001190318.GI21640@redhat.com> Message-ID: <007501c38850$067ea470$f9e3fea9@blackhat007> > css: GPL (already says GPL on the top) > > Makefile: GPL (just added license and copyright info to top of files) > > xsl: GPL (already says GPL on the top) > > stylesheet images (adminition graphics): only distributable with RH > and Fedora docs since they are the same ones used in the RHEL docs, > long term, we should created ones for Fedora that are GPLed. I added a > LICENSE file in the stylesheet-images directory describing how they > can be used (with RH or Fedora docs). > > Does that cover everything in question? > > > Also I would like to conttribute to the docs project too. > > > > Great! Are there any topics you are interested in writing about? > > Tammy > That just about covers everything. I will need to make my adminitions then. What topics do we have on offer? I do like grsecurity, but does it have to be a redhat topic? What about something in the lines of gentoo documention, i.e. docs on setting up various things, not pure redhat? I am doing one now on squid with squidguard, swatch, grsecurity and iptables, but the iptables bit is just the script taken from the Redhat guide for firewalls book by Bill McCarthy, with my bit thrown in. Regards, Gavin. http://www.magicfx.co.uk http://www.suretecsystems.com From gavin.henry at magicfx.co.uk Wed Oct 1 19:16:27 2003 From: gavin.henry at magicfx.co.uk (Gavin Henry) Date: Wed, 1 Oct 2003 20:16:27 +0100 Subject: docs etc all gpl? References: Message-ID: <007f01c38850$85cef540$f9e3fea9@blackhat007> > Tammy, et.al. > > I am in the process of converting all of the XFree86 documentation to DocBook. One of the things > that I have been asked to provide is a StyleGuide very similar to the documentation guide that is > now part of the Fedora project. I would like to use much of the Fedora Documentation Guide that > describes the tag usage in the XFree86 StyleGuide. I think it is a brilliant guide. I had never done any xml beofre, but have been reading about it and sgml for around 2 months. So many different sources of info. Started following that guide and using emacs for it since Monday. I feel in love with xml today. :-) Regards, Gavin Henry. http://www.magicfx.co.uk http://www.suretecsystems.com From kwade at redhat.com Wed Oct 1 19:27:53 2003 From: kwade at redhat.com (Karsten Wade) Date: 01 Oct 2003 12:27:53 -0700 Subject: html2docbook Message-ID: <1065036473.3492.20503.camel@erato.phig.org> On Wed, 2003-10-01 at 12:12, John.Himpel at edwardjones.com wrote: > Tammy, et.al. > > I am in the process of converting all of the XFree86 documentation to DocBook. I don't know off hand what the XFree86 doxen is written in, but if you or anyone here has dox to convert from HTML to DocBook, this tidy patch works really well: http://www.cise.ufl.edu/~ppadala/tidy/ It's less helpful when the dox are about APIs, because everything becomes or or , which reflects the formatting centric usage of HTML. But it is certainly a nice way to get everything in W3C compliant DocBook SGML/XML as a starting point. - Karsten -- Karsten Wade : Tech Writer, RHCE : o: +1.831.466.9664 kwade at redhat.com : http://rhea.redhat.com/ : c: +1.831.818.9995 Red Hat Enterprise Applications : WAF, CMS, Portal Server -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- From tfox at redhat.com Wed Oct 1 20:08:34 2003 From: tfox at redhat.com (Tammy Fox) Date: Wed, 1 Oct 2003 16:08:34 -0400 Subject: docs etc all gpl? In-Reply-To: <007501c38850$067ea470$f9e3fea9@blackhat007> References: <003c01c3884b$dd531440$f9e3fea9@blackhat007> <20031001190318.GI21640@redhat.com> <007501c38850$067ea470$f9e3fea9@blackhat007> Message-ID: <20031001200833.GJ21640@redhat.com> On Wed, Oct 01, 2003 at 08:12:53PM +0100, Gavin Henry wrote: > > css: GPL (already says GPL on the top) > > > > Makefile: GPL (just added license and copyright info to top of files) > > > > xsl: GPL (already says GPL on the top) > > > > stylesheet images (adminition graphics): only distributable with RH > > and Fedora docs since they are the same ones used in the RHEL docs, > > long term, we should created ones for Fedora that are GPLed. I added a > > LICENSE file in the stylesheet-images directory describing how they > > can be used (with RH or Fedora docs). > > > > Does that cover everything in question? > > > > > Also I would like to conttribute to the docs project too. > > > > > > > Great! Are there any topics you are interested in writing about? > > > > Tammy > > > > That just about covers everything. I will need to make my adminitions then. > > What topics do we have on offer? I do like grsecurity, but does it have to > be a redhat topic? What about something in the lines of gentoo documention, > i.e. docs on setting up various things, not pure redhat? I am doing one now > on squid with squidguard, swatch, grsecurity and iptables, but the iptables > bit is just the script taken from the Redhat guide for firewalls book by > Bill McCarthy, with my bit thrown in. > It has to be somehow related to the Fedora Project. So, documenting anything in Fedora Core, Fedora Extras, etc. is on topic. Even documenting how to add something specific like software to use a digital camera or recorder to Fedora Core, Fedora Extras, etc. is relevant. Tammy > Regards, > > Gavin. > http://www.magicfx.co.uk > http://www.suretecsystems.com > > > > -- > fedora-docs-list mailing list > fedora-docs-list at redhat.com > http://www.redhat.com/mailman/listinfo/fedora-docs-list -- From tfox at redhat.com Wed Oct 1 20:17:21 2003 From: tfox at redhat.com (Tammy Fox) Date: Wed, 1 Oct 2003 16:17:21 -0400 Subject: docs etc all gpl? In-Reply-To: <007f01c38850$85cef540$f9e3fea9@blackhat007> References: <007f01c38850$85cef540$f9e3fea9@blackhat007> Message-ID: <20031001201721.GK21640@redhat.com> On Wed, Oct 01, 2003 at 08:16:27PM +0100, Gavin Henry wrote: > > > Tammy, et.al. > > > > I am in the process of converting all of the XFree86 documentation to > DocBook. One of the things > > that I have been asked to provide is a StyleGuide very similar to the > documentation guide that is > > now part of the Fedora project. I would like to use much of the Fedora > Documentation Guide that > > describes the tag usage in the XFree86 StyleGuide. > > I think it is a brilliant guide. I had never done any xml beofre, but have > been reading about it and sgml for around 2 months. So many different > sources of info. Started following that guide and using emacs for it since > Monday. I feel in love with xml today. :-) > Thanks. I started the guide about 3 years ago to help writers in the RH docs group. I'm glad I have been able to share it via the Fedora Project. There are so many sources of info about DocBook, that it can be overwhelming for a beginner. The focus of this guide is to teach you how to use DocBook quickly without having to learn the details of how it works. After you become familiar with it, you can read the more in-depth DocBook docs if you are interested. Most people just need to know enough to be able to do the actual task at hand -- the writing part. Tammy > Regards, > > Gavin Henry. > http://www.magicfx.co.uk > http://www.suretecsystems.com > > > > -- > fedora-docs-list mailing list > fedora-docs-list at redhat.com > http://www.redhat.com/mailman/listinfo/fedora-docs-list -- From tfox at redhat.com Wed Oct 1 20:24:34 2003 From: tfox at redhat.com (Tammy Fox) Date: Wed, 1 Oct 2003 16:24:34 -0400 Subject: docs etc all gpl? In-Reply-To: References: <20031001190318.GI21640@redhat.com> Message-ID: <20031001202434.GL21640@redhat.com> On Wed, Oct 01, 2003 at 02:12:31PM -0500, John.Himpel at edwardjones.com wrote: > Tammy, et.al. > > I am in the process of converting all of the XFree86 documentation to DocBook. One of the things > that I have been asked to provide is a StyleGuide very similar to the documentation guide that is > now part of the Fedora project. I would like to use much of the Fedora Documentation Guide that > describes the tag usage in the XFree86 StyleGuide. > > The license covering the Documentation Guide is the FDGL. This does not allow me to excerpt the > part I would need and discard the rest. If you change the license to GPL, then I cannot use any of > it (XFree86 does not allow GPL). Rather they use the X-License. This license is very close to the > MIT-License. Daniel Veillard has dual licensed libxml2 and libxslt so that we can distribute them > for document generation. We at XFree86 are committed to open source, but we cannot use GPL. > What 2 licenses are libxml2 and libxslt under? > Is there a way we can excerpt part of what the Fedora Project has already generated? > Not sure. Are you using parts of other docs already? If so, what licenses are they under? Tammy > John > > > On Wed, Oct 01, 2003 at 07:43:05PM +0100, Gavin Henry wrote: > > > Hi all, > > > I am writing a manual for squid, squidguard, grsecurity and iptables (not > > > too in depth) for pur networking dept. and I am wondering if all the css, > > > images, Makefiles etc. done by Tammy Fox and others are available for me to > > > use, as they are very nice, and look good. > > > > > > > css: GPL (already says GPL on the top) > > > > Makefile: GPL (just added license and copyright info to top of files) > > > > xsl: GPL (already says GPL on the top) > > > > stylesheet images (adminition graphics): only distributable with RH > > and Fedora docs since they are the same ones used in the RHEL docs, > > long term, we should created ones for Fedora that are GPLed. I added a > > LICENSE file in the stylesheet-images directory describing how they > > can be used (with RH or Fedora docs). > > > > Does that cover everything in question? > > > > > Also I would like to conttribute to the docs project too. > > > > > > > Great! Are there any topics you are interested in writing about? > > > > Tammy > > > > > Regards. > > > > > > (excuse the use of ms outlook :( ) > > > > > > -- > > > Gavin Henry > > > http://www.magicfx.co.uk > > > http://www.suretecsystems.com > > > > > > > > > > > > -- > > > fedora-docs-list mailing list > > > fedora-docs-list at redhat.com > > > http://www.redhat.com/mailman/listinfo/fedora-docs-list > > > > > > -- > > fedora-docs-list mailing list > > fedora-docs-list at redhat.com > > http://www.redhat.com/mailman/listinfo/fedora-docs-list > > > -- > fedora-docs-list mailing list > fedora-docs-list at redhat.com > http://www.redhat.com/mailman/listinfo/fedora-docs-list -- From goeran at uddeborg.se Wed Oct 1 20:46:12 2003 From: goeran at uddeborg.se (=?iso-8859-1?q?G=F6ran_Uddeborg?=) Date: Wed, 1 Oct 2003 22:46:12 +0200 Subject: docs translation In-Reply-To: <200309302353.54096.lsdr@lsdr.net> References: <200309290159.13551.lsdr@lsdr.net> <200309300138.45879.lsdr@lsdr.net> <20030930174430.GJ13417@redhat.com> <200309302353.54096.lsdr@lsdr.net> Message-ID: <16251.15636.688343.873819@uebn.uddeborg.se> Luiz Rocha writes: > And as Rodrigo pointed out, would be nice to post here or in the website > which tools you guys use for this, so we could use the same ones. On the web page for the Swedish translation team I enumerate these suggestions: - Emacs' po-mode. - gtranslator - KBabel - poEdit The first to comes with the distribution. The one I use personally is po-mode in emacs, and I can recommend it. Works fine except for plural forms. If you are not an emacs user, you might wish to look at the others, though. From tfox at redhat.com Wed Oct 1 20:51:22 2003 From: tfox at redhat.com (Tammy Fox) Date: Wed, 1 Oct 2003 16:51:22 -0400 Subject: docs translation In-Reply-To: <16251.15636.688343.873819@uebn.uddeborg.se> References: <200309290159.13551.lsdr@lsdr.net> <200309300138.45879.lsdr@lsdr.net> <20030930174430.GJ13417@redhat.com> <200309302353.54096.lsdr@lsdr.net> <16251.15636.688343.873819@uebn.uddeborg.se> Message-ID: <20031001205122.GO21640@redhat.com> On Wed, Oct 01, 2003 at 10:46:12PM +0200, G?ran Uddeborg wrote: > Luiz Rocha writes: > > And as Rodrigo pointed out, would be nice to post here or in the website > > which tools you guys use for this, so we could use the same ones. > > On the web page for the Swedish translation team I enumerate these > suggestions: > > - Emacs' po-mode. > - gtranslator > - KBabel > - poEdit > > The first to comes with the distribution. The one I use personally is > po-mode in emacs, and I can recommend it. Works fine except for > plural forms. If you are not an emacs user, you might wish to look at > the others, though. > > The RH translators use KBabel. I have asked them to join the list and give us details. Tammy From goeran at uddeborg.se Wed Oct 1 20:55:22 2003 From: goeran at uddeborg.se (=?iso-8859-1?q?G=F6ran_Uddeborg?=) Date: Wed, 1 Oct 2003 22:55:22 +0200 Subject: docs translation In-Reply-To: <16251.15636.688343.873819@uebn.uddeborg.se> References: <200309290159.13551.lsdr@lsdr.net> <200309300138.45879.lsdr@lsdr.net> <20030930174430.GJ13417@redhat.com> <200309302353.54096.lsdr@lsdr.net> <16251.15636.688343.873819@uebn.uddeborg.se> Message-ID: <16251.16186.888780.107040@uebn.uddeborg.se> G?ran Uddeborg writes: > - Emacs' po-mode. > - gtranslator > - KBabel > - poEdit > > The first to comes with the distribution. Sorry, not the first two, the first and third (po-mode and KBabel). From paul at frields.com Thu Oct 2 01:03:22 2003 From: paul at frields.com (Paul W. Frields) Date: Wed, 01 Oct 2003 21:03:22 -0400 Subject: Greetings Message-ID: <1065056602.7358.7.camel@bettie.internal.frields.org> I am an RHCE/RHCX and interested in working with the Docs project... I am open to assignments and suggestions, but I was thinking about starting with pieces such as updfstab, and possibly moving on to an updated and more officially-sanctioned revision of the Redhat-CD-HOWTO. Do these sound good to you, Tammy? Or anyone? I am not an Emacs person but I am comfortable writing XML longhand. Any suggestions there? Anyway, I'm excited about being able to contribute to a project whose predecessor product I've been using for about 6+ years. Hope I can be of service to someone... just let me know how I should get started. Do we have a kickoff date, or a timeline? Sorry, too many questions for one message. Cheers, everyone. -- Paul W. Frields -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: signature.asc Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 189 bytes Desc: This is a digitally signed message part URL: From tfox at redhat.com Thu Oct 2 03:59:11 2003 From: tfox at redhat.com (Tammy Fox) Date: Wed, 1 Oct 2003 23:59:11 -0400 Subject: Greetings In-Reply-To: <1065056602.7358.7.camel@bettie.internal.frields.org> References: <1065056602.7358.7.camel@bettie.internal.frields.org> Message-ID: <20031002035911.GA14826@redhat.com> On Wed, Oct 01, 2003 at 09:03:22PM -0400, Paul W. Frields wrote: > I am an RHCE/RHCX and interested in working with the Docs project... I > am open to assignments and suggestions, but I was thinking about > starting with pieces such as updfstab, and possibly moving on to an > updated and more officially-sanctioned revision of the Redhat-CD-HOWTO. > Do these sound good to you, Tammy? Or anyone? > Sure. Since we don't have very many existing Fedora docs, anything on topic is fair game. I think we should start making a list of topics and volunteers on the website. So, if you "officially" want to volunteer for a topic, email me via this list, and I'll add you to the list of writers. We also need editors, so if you want to volunteer for that, I'm starting that list as well. In general, it is best to write about topics that you understand and that interest you. I have been working on the "tools" -- Makefiles, xsl stylesheets, css files, etc. But, if anyone wants to contribute patches to them, please feel free. > I am not an Emacs person but I am comfortable writing XML longhand. Any > suggestions there? > I don't want to force Emacs on you, but I would encourage you to give it a try just for the psgml mode. The Documentation Guide explains some of the benefits including giving you a valid list of tags at a given location, tag completion, properly indentation, and justification. If everyone uses the same tools, it is easier for everyone to work on them. If you just don't like it, maybe someone else can suggest a different editor that will assist you at least a little more than a plain text editor. > Anyway, I'm excited about being able to contribute to a project whose > predecessor product I've been using for about 6+ years. Hope I can be of > service to someone... just let me know how I should get started. Do we > have a kickoff date, or a timeline? > The only issue really holding us back is the lack of a CVS repository that everyone can write to. Unfortunately, that is up to the new steering committee AFAIK. For now, people can send me the files and I can commit them to CVS for everyone else to see. I know that is not great or even good, but that is all we have for now. If I find out anymore about the progress of the CVS repository, I'll let you know. > Sorry, too many questions for one message. Cheers, everyone. No problem. Glad to know there are people out there who want to write docs. ;-) > -- > Paul W. Frields Tammy From kaboom at gatech.edu Thu Oct 2 04:06:43 2003 From: kaboom at gatech.edu (Chris Ricker) Date: Wed, 1 Oct 2003 22:06:43 -0600 (MDT) Subject: Greetings In-Reply-To: <20031002035911.GA14826@redhat.com> References: <1065056602.7358.7.camel@bettie.internal.frields.org> <20031002035911.GA14826@redhat.com> Message-ID: On Wed, 1 Oct 2003, Tammy Fox wrote: > > I am not an Emacs person but I am comfortable writing XML longhand. Any > > suggestions there? > > > > I don't want to force Emacs on you, but I would encourage you to give > it a try just for the psgml mode. The Documentation Guide explains > some of the benefits including giving you a valid list of tags at a > given location, tag completion, properly indentation, and > justification. If everyone uses the same tools, it is easier for > everyone to work on them. > > If you just don't like it, maybe someone else can suggest a different > editor that will assist you at least a little more than a plain text > editor. I've tried psgml before but never managed to force myself to get used to Emacs brain-deadness ;-). Instead, I use Vim for XML. There are some modes you can download for it which give you a lot of basic features (including all of the above), or it's fairly easy to add your own support for auto-closing tags and tag folding (which is about all I want in terms of XML-specific support). I've also seen a fair number of people doing XML in Kate, if you want something GUI and gvim's not your thing.... later, chris From tfox at redhat.com Thu Oct 2 04:09:08 2003 From: tfox at redhat.com (Tammy Fox) Date: Thu, 2 Oct 2003 00:09:08 -0400 Subject: Greetings In-Reply-To: References: <1065056602.7358.7.camel@bettie.internal.frields.org> <20031002035911.GA14826@redhat.com> Message-ID: <20031002040907.GB14826@redhat.com> On Wed, Oct 01, 2003 at 10:06:43PM -0600, Chris Ricker wrote: > On Wed, 1 Oct 2003, Tammy Fox wrote: > > > > I am not an Emacs person but I am comfortable writing XML longhand. Any > > > suggestions there? > > > > > > > I don't want to force Emacs on you, but I would encourage you to give > > it a try just for the psgml mode. The Documentation Guide explains > > some of the benefits including giving you a valid list of tags at a > > given location, tag completion, properly indentation, and > > justification. If everyone uses the same tools, it is easier for > > everyone to work on them. > > > > If you just don't like it, maybe someone else can suggest a different > > editor that will assist you at least a little more than a plain text > > editor. > > I've tried psgml before but never managed to force myself to get used to > Emacs brain-deadness ;-). Instead, I use Vim for XML. There are some modes > you can download for it which give you a lot of basic features (including > all of the above), or it's fairly easy to add your own support for > auto-closing tags and tag folding (which is about all I want in terms of > XML-specific support). I've also seen a fair number of people doing XML in > Kate, if you want something GUI and gvim's not your thing.... > > later, > chris > > Thanks for the suggestions Chris. If you want to write something up about using Vim for XML editing, we could add it to the Documentation Guide. I'm sure there are other people out there who don't want to use Emacs as well. Tammy From lsdr at lsdr.net Thu Oct 2 05:28:10 2003 From: lsdr at lsdr.net (Luiz Rocha) Date: Thu, 2 Oct 2003 02:28:10 -0300 Subject: docs translation In-Reply-To: <20031001205122.GO21640@redhat.com> References: <200309290159.13551.lsdr@lsdr.net> <16251.15636.688343.873819@uebn.uddeborg.se> <20031001205122.GO21640@redhat.com> Message-ID: <200310020228.10556.lsdr@lsdr.net> > > - Emacs' po-mode. > > - gtranslator > > - KBabel > > - poEdit I have KBabel installed in my machine. I'll that a look on the other tools as well. > The RH translators use KBabel. I have asked them to join the list and > give us details. Then I'll play with KBabel first. Another question (from a gettext ignorant). Which tools, if any, you guys use to generate the PO files? I downloaded the gettext manual, but I want to be practical. -- Luiz Rocha From lsdr at lsdr.net Thu Oct 2 05:42:44 2003 From: lsdr at lsdr.net (Luiz Rocha) Date: Thu, 2 Oct 2003 02:42:44 -0300 Subject: Greetings In-Reply-To: <20031002035911.GA14826@redhat.com> References: <1065056602.7358.7.camel@bettie.internal.frields.org> <20031002035911.GA14826@redhat.com> Message-ID: <200310020242.44879.lsdr@lsdr.net> > I think we should start making a list of topics and volunteers on the > website. So, if you "officially" want to volunteer for a topic, email > me via this list, and I'll add you to the list of writers. If you're going to do a list of writers, you can include me too. As soon as I get Fedora (slow net connection - sorry) I'll try to write something about connecting PDAs (Palms et cetera). I like the subject, I have some experience with it. > We also need editors, so if you want to volunteer for that, I'm > starting that list as well. What do you mean by editors? -- Luiz Rocha From lsdr at lsdr.net Thu Oct 2 05:50:56 2003 From: lsdr at lsdr.net (Luiz Rocha) Date: Thu, 2 Oct 2003 02:50:56 -0300 Subject: background stuff Message-ID: <200310020250.56370.lsdr@lsdr.net> Tammy, you said you're working with Makefiles, stylesheets and all the "background stuff" for docs, right? May I ask exactly what you're doing and how may I help you? For the next few months I'll have a lot of free time and I might be able to help you out with your stuff too. It will also help me to gain full knowledge of the docs-making process and even start a translation for one of the current avaliable guides. -- Luiz Rocha From paul at frields.com Thu Oct 2 11:35:03 2003 From: paul at frields.com (Paul W. Frields) Date: 02 Oct 2003 07:35:03 -0400 Subject: Greetings In-Reply-To: <20031002040907.GB14826@redhat.com> References: <1065056602.7358.7.camel@bettie.internal.frields.org> <20031002035911.GA14826@redhat.com> <20031002040907.GB14826@redhat.com> Message-ID: <1065094503.20221.5.camel@localhost.localdomain> On Thu, 2003-10-02 at 00:09, Tammy Fox wrote: > > I've tried psgml before but never managed to force myself to get used to > > Emacs brain-deadness ;-). Instead, I use Vim for XML. There are some modes > > you can download for it which give you a lot of basic features (including > > all of the above), or it's fairly easy to add your own support for > > auto-closing tags and tag folding (which is about all I want in terms of > > XML-specific support). I've also seen a fair number of people doing XML in > > Kate, if you want something GUI and gvim's not your thing.... > Thanks for the suggestions Chris. If you want to write something up > about using Vim for XML editing, we could add it to the Documentation > Guide. I'm sure there are other people out there who don't want to use > Emacs as well. I'm a big LyX fan, but I'd prefer to just go ahead and take the Emacs plunge rather than mucking around too much on the tool front. If I get time I will work on the LyX aspect, and send Tammy documentation on getting it working. I doubt it's as robust as Emacs/psgml though. Tammy, is it planned for the excellent Red Hat Guides to be released via the FDL and incorporated into fedora-docs? Or are we starting from scratch entirely? -- Paul W. Frields From paul at frields.com Thu Oct 2 11:38:11 2003 From: paul at frields.com (Paul W. Frields) Date: 02 Oct 2003 07:38:11 -0400 Subject: Greetings In-Reply-To: <200310020242.44879.lsdr@lsdr.net> References: <1065056602.7358.7.camel@bettie.internal.frields.org> <20031002035911.GA14826@redhat.com> <200310020242.44879.lsdr@lsdr.net> Message-ID: <1065094691.20221.9.camel@localhost.localdomain> Tammy, Please put me down on your "official" (?) list of writers and as a volunteer editor. Like the man says, "I'm just happy to be here." :-) -- Paul W. Frields From gavin.henry at magicfx.co.uk Thu Oct 2 13:53:28 2003 From: gavin.henry at magicfx.co.uk (Gavin Henry) Date: Thu, 2 Oct 2003 14:53:28 +0100 Subject: cvs write access Message-ID: <20031002145328.7882b0db.gavin.henry@magicfx.co.uk> Hi all, Tammy, what is the correct of getting write access to the CVS repository, as I would like to commit some changes regarding the documentation guide. Mainly typos I discovered when trying to add a figure using the guide at docs-xml-tags.xml I would like to add the bit below, showing various types of figures and the emacs 'figure plugin' that Gregory Leblanc wrote. http://mail.gnome.org/archives/gnome-doc-list/2001-October/msg00106.html(beginning of whole thread) -- Regards, Gavin Henry. Trying to be a RHCE..... http://www.magicfx.co.uk http://www.suretecsystems.com -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 189 bytes Desc: not available URL: From tfox at redhat.com Thu Oct 2 16:18:27 2003 From: tfox at redhat.com (Tammy Fox) Date: Thu, 2 Oct 2003 12:18:27 -0400 Subject: Greetings In-Reply-To: <200310020242.44879.lsdr@lsdr.net> References: <1065056602.7358.7.camel@bettie.internal.frields.org> <20031002035911.GA14826@redhat.com> <200310020242.44879.lsdr@lsdr.net> Message-ID: <20031002161827.GV21640@redhat.com> On Thu, Oct 02, 2003 at 02:42:44AM -0300, Luiz Rocha wrote: > > I think we should start making a list of topics and volunteers on the > > website. So, if you "officially" want to volunteer for a topic, email > > me via this list, and I'll add you to the list of writers. > > If you're going to do a list of writers, you can include me too. As soon as > I get Fedora (slow net connection - sorry) I'll try to write something about > connecting PDAs (Palms et cetera). I like the subject, I have some experience > with it. > Great. Thanks. I have added you to the list that should appear on the Docs Project page soon. > > > We also need editors, so if you want to volunteer for that, I'm > > starting that list as well. > > What do you mean by editors? People to proof read tutorials for the usual typos, misspelled words, etc. and to make sure the writer followed the XML conventions in the Docs Guide. Basically, QA for docs. > > -- > Luiz Rocha > > Tammy From tfox at redhat.com Thu Oct 2 16:20:48 2003 From: tfox at redhat.com (Tammy Fox) Date: Thu, 2 Oct 2003 12:20:48 -0400 Subject: Greetings In-Reply-To: <1065094503.20221.5.camel@localhost.localdomain> References: <1065056602.7358.7.camel@bettie.internal.frields.org> <20031002035911.GA14826@redhat.com> <20031002040907.GB14826@redhat.com> <1065094503.20221.5.camel@localhost.localdomain> Message-ID: <20031002162048.GW21640@redhat.com> On Thu, Oct 02, 2003 at 07:35:03AM -0400, Paul W. Frields wrote: > On Thu, 2003-10-02 at 00:09, Tammy Fox wrote: > > > I've tried psgml before but never managed to force myself to get used to > > > Emacs brain-deadness ;-). Instead, I use Vim for XML. There are some modes > > > you can download for it which give you a lot of basic features (including > > > all of the above), or it's fairly easy to add your own support for > > > auto-closing tags and tag folding (which is about all I want in terms of > > > XML-specific support). I've also seen a fair number of people doing XML in > > > Kate, if you want something GUI and gvim's not your thing.... > > > Thanks for the suggestions Chris. If you want to write something up > > about using Vim for XML editing, we could add it to the Documentation > > Guide. I'm sure there are other people out there who don't want to use > > Emacs as well. > > I'm a big LyX fan, but I'd prefer to just go ahead and take the Emacs > plunge rather than mucking around too much on the tool front. If I get > time I will work on the LyX aspect, and send Tammy documentation on > getting it working. I doubt it's as robust as Emacs/psgml though. > I haven't used LyX, but I can say that Emacs with psgml is pretty dang robust. We use it extensively everyday and haven't seen any bugs. > Tammy, is it planned for the excellent Red Hat Guides to be released via > the FDL and incorporated into fedora-docs? Or are we starting from > scratch entirely? > We are starting entirely from scratch since the focus audience of the Fedora Project is different and in a different format -- tutorials (with the exception of the participation guides and the Installation Guide. > -- > Paul W. Frields > > Tammy From tfox at redhat.com Thu Oct 2 16:29:02 2003 From: tfox at redhat.com (Tammy Fox) Date: Thu, 2 Oct 2003 12:29:02 -0400 Subject: cvs write access In-Reply-To: <20031002145328.7882b0db.gavin.henry@magicfx.co.uk> References: <20031002145328.7882b0db.gavin.henry@magicfx.co.uk> Message-ID: <20031002162902.GX21640@redhat.com> Unfortunately, we do not have the infrastructure available to give people outside RH write access to the repository yet. I just asked some people on the Steering Committee, and they said it will be available in the next few months. In the meantime, you can send me a patch. Sorry the process is not any better. Tammy On Thu, Oct 02, 2003 at 02:53:28PM +0100, Gavin Henry wrote: > Hi all, > > Tammy, what is the correct of getting write access to the CVS repository, as I would like to commit some changes regarding the documentation guide. Mainly typos I discovered when trying to add a figure using the guide at docs-xml-tags.xml > > I would like to add the bit below, showing various types of figures and the emacs 'figure plugin' that Gregory Leblanc wrote. > > http://mail.gnome.org/archives/gnome-doc-list/2001-October/msg00106.html(beginning of whole thread) > > > -- > Regards, > > Gavin Henry. > > Trying to be a RHCE..... > http://www.magicfx.co.uk > http://www.suretecsystems.com From gavin.henry at magicfx.co.uk Thu Oct 2 16:35:29 2003 From: gavin.henry at magicfx.co.uk (G Henry) Date: Thu, 2 Oct 2003 17:35:29 +0100 Subject: cvs write access In-Reply-To: <20031002162902.GX21640@redhat.com> References: <20031002145328.7882b0db.gavin.henry@magicfx.co.uk> <20031002162902.GX21640@redhat.com> Message-ID: <200310021735.30338.gavin.henry@magicfx.co.uk> -----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- Hash: SHA1 On Thursday 02 Oct 2003 5:29 pm, Tammy Fox wrote: > Unfortunately, we do not have the infrastructure available to give > people outside RH write access to the repository yet. I just asked > some people on the Steering Committee, and they said it will be > available in the next few months. > > In the meantime, you can send me a patch. > A patch as in patch -p1 < etc Or just what I want to change/add? - -- Regards Trying to be a RHCE http://www.magicfx.co.uk http://www.suretecsystems.com -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: GnuPG v1.2.3 (GNU/Linux) iD8DBQE/fFPRgNqd7Kng8UoRAsDjAKDNgVHvGCSV2Adny3MR7ul48I3VbQCeO3Hd pZz8ZFhNzB8XkAl9w47rGWE= =eqvF -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- From tfox at redhat.com Thu Oct 2 17:35:28 2003 From: tfox at redhat.com (Tammy Fox) Date: Thu, 2 Oct 2003 13:35:28 -0400 Subject: background stuff In-Reply-To: <200310020250.56370.lsdr@lsdr.net> References: <200310020250.56370.lsdr@lsdr.net> Message-ID: <20031002173528.GY21640@redhat.com> On Thu, Oct 02, 2003 at 02:50:56AM -0300, Luiz Rocha wrote: > Tammy, you said you're working with Makefiles, stylesheets and all the > "background stuff" for docs, right? > > May I ask exactly what you're doing and how may I help you? > The biggest priority is getting xmlto to produce PDFs. Even with valid DocBook XML, I can't get a PDF to generate for the Documentation or the Developer's Guides. I have been commenting out sections to see where the problems are, and so far I have found a few workarounds. But, ideally we want it to work for valid DocBook XML. We also want it to work without having to install additional packages on top of Fedora Core. So, something like using some of the Java solutions out there is out unless it is the last option. > For the next few months I'll have a lot of free time and I might be able to > help you out with your stuff too. It will also help me to gain full knowledge > of the docs-making process and even start a translation for one of the > current avaliable guides. > Great. Sounds good. > -- > Luiz Rocha > Tammy From tfox at redhat.com Thu Oct 2 17:37:31 2003 From: tfox at redhat.com (Tammy Fox) Date: Thu, 2 Oct 2003 13:37:31 -0400 Subject: docs translation In-Reply-To: <200310020228.10556.lsdr@lsdr.net> References: <200309290159.13551.lsdr@lsdr.net> <16251.15636.688343.873819@uebn.uddeborg.se> <20031001205122.GO21640@redhat.com> <200310020228.10556.lsdr@lsdr.net> Message-ID: <20031002173730.GZ21640@redhat.com> On Thu, Oct 02, 2003 at 02:28:10AM -0300, Luiz Rocha wrote: > > > - Emacs' po-mode. > > > - gtranslator > > > - KBabel > > > - poEdit > > I have KBabel installed in my machine. I'll that a look on the other tools > as well. > > > > The RH translators use KBabel. I have asked them to join the list and > > give us details. > > Then I'll play with KBabel first. > > Another question (from a gettext ignorant). Which tools, if any, you guys > use to generate the PO files? I downloaded the gettext manual, but I want to > be practical. > -- > Luiz Rocha > I think the internal RH translators use po2xml, xml2pot, and msguniq. I have asked them to join this discussion, but they are really busy right now so maybe they don't have time. Tammy From tfox at redhat.com Thu Oct 2 17:42:22 2003 From: tfox at redhat.com (Tammy Fox) Date: Thu, 2 Oct 2003 13:42:22 -0400 Subject: cvs write access In-Reply-To: <200310021735.30338.gavin.henry@magicfx.co.uk> References: <20031002145328.7882b0db.gavin.henry@magicfx.co.uk> <20031002162902.GX21640@redhat.com> <200310021735.30338.gavin.henry@magicfx.co.uk> Message-ID: <20031002174221.GA21640@redhat.com> On Thu, Oct 02, 2003 at 05:35:29PM +0100, G Henry wrote: > -----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- > Hash: SHA1 > > On Thursday 02 Oct 2003 5:29 pm, Tammy Fox wrote: > > Unfortunately, we do not have the infrastructure available to give > > people outside RH write access to the repository yet. I just asked > > some people on the Steering Committee, and they said it will be > > available in the next few months. > > > > In the meantime, you can send me a patch. > > > > > A patch as in patch -p1 < etc > > Or just what I want to change/add? A patch or a unified diff is fine. A brief description of what the changes are would also be nice. Thanks, Tammy From tfox at redhat.com Thu Oct 2 19:01:28 2003 From: tfox at redhat.com (Tammy Fox) Date: Thu, 2 Oct 2003 15:01:28 -0400 Subject: suggestions for Fedora admon icons Message-ID: <20031002190128.GF21640@redhat.com> As mentioned earlier, Garrett is going to make some admonition icons for the Fedora Project docs that can be distributed freely with any docs as long as credit is given. They will probably be under the GPL unless we find a license more suitable for graphics. Garrett and I are going to brainstorm about the icons next week, but I though I would ask and see if anyone has any suggestions. The admon icons are: Note Tip Caution Important Warning The ones used for RH docs are shown at http://www.redhat.com/docs/manuals/linux/RHL-9-Manual/custom-guide/s1-intro-conventions.html. Obviously, the Fedora ones need to be different so there aren't any conflicting license issues. Thanks, Tammy From kwade at redhat.com Thu Oct 2 19:28:34 2003 From: kwade at redhat.com (Karsten Wade) Date: 02 Oct 2003 12:28:34 -0700 Subject: suggestions for Fedora admon icons In-Reply-To: <20031002190128.GF21640@redhat.com> References: <20031002190128.GF21640@redhat.com> Message-ID: <1065122914.3492.23591.camel@erato.phig.org> On Thu, 2003-10-02 at 12:01, Tammy Fox wrote: > As mentioned earlier, Garrett is going to make some admonition icons > for the Fedora Project docs that can be distributed freely with any > docs as long as credit is given. They will probably be under the GPL > unless we find a license more suitable for graphics. > > Garrett and I are going to brainstorm about the icons next week, but I > though I would ask and see if anyone has any suggestions. You're going to think I'm a dork, but ... > Note A li'l red fedora with a reporter's notepad in the band. > Tip A tip of the hat. Alternately, fedora with a lit lightbulb over it. > Caution A li'l red fedora being blown off a head by the wind? > Important A li'l red fedora with a lit exclamation point over it ! > Warning A li'l red fedora glowing Warning Red. Glow marks should work in B&W as well as full-color. > The ones used for RH docs are shown at > http://www.redhat.com/docs/manuals/linux/RHL-9-Manual/custom-guide/s1-intro-conventions.html. Obviously, > the Fedora ones need to be different so there aren't any conflicting > license issues. Not to mention confusing ... if we are not going to use the standard DocBook flat admonition graphics that come in Fedora Core, they should at least be different from anything else out there to help give that Fedora Project feeling. :) - Karsten -- Karsten Wade : Tech Writer, RHCE : o: +1.831.466.9664 kwade at redhat.com : http://rhea.redhat.com/ : c: +1.831.818.9995 Red Hat Enterprise Applications : WAF, CMS, Portal Server -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- From twaugh at redhat.com Thu Oct 2 20:42:56 2003 From: twaugh at redhat.com (Tim Waugh) Date: Thu, 2 Oct 2003 21:42:56 +0100 Subject: background stuff In-Reply-To: <20031002173528.GY21640@redhat.com> References: <200310020250.56370.lsdr@lsdr.net> <20031002173528.GY21640@redhat.com> Message-ID: <20031002204256.GB2229@redhat.com> On Thu, Oct 02, 2003 at 01:35:28PM -0400, Tammy Fox wrote: > The biggest priority is getting xmlto to produce PDFs. Even with > valid DocBook XML, I can't get a PDF to generate for the > Documentation or the Developer's Guides. I have been commenting out > sections to see where the problems are, and so far I have found a > few workarounds. But, ideally we want it to work for valid DocBook > XML. We also want it to work without having to install additional > packages on top of Fedora Core. So, something like using some of the > Java solutions out there is out unless it is the last option. I already know about the problem -- are there more problems then? (No progress on that by the way. Needs a TeX hacker, or a tool written in a different language.) Tim. */ -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 189 bytes Desc: not available URL: From tfox at redhat.com Thu Oct 2 20:53:48 2003 From: tfox at redhat.com (Tammy Fox) Date: Thu, 2 Oct 2003 16:53:48 -0400 Subject: background stuff In-Reply-To: <20031002204256.GB2229@redhat.com> References: <200310020250.56370.lsdr@lsdr.net> <20031002173528.GY21640@redhat.com> <20031002204256.GB2229@redhat.com> Message-ID: <20031002205347.GN21640@redhat.com> On Thu, Oct 02, 2003 at 09:42:56PM +0100, Tim Waugh wrote: > On Thu, Oct 02, 2003 at 01:35:28PM -0400, Tammy Fox wrote: > > > The biggest priority is getting xmlto to produce PDFs. Even with > > valid DocBook XML, I can't get a PDF to generate for the > > Documentation or the Developer's Guides. I have been commenting out > > sections to see where the problems are, and so far I have found a > > few workarounds. But, ideally we want it to work for valid DocBook > > XML. We also want it to work without having to install additional > > packages on top of Fedora Core. So, something like using some of the > > Java solutions out there is out unless it is the last option. > > I already know about the problem -- are > there more problems then? > Yes. I tried this about a month and a half ago, so I don't remember the specifics. Certain table attributes seemed to make it stop and if I had: foo I had to change it to: foo I can't remember if that was because it gave it too much space or because it stopped at that point when making the PDF. I'll go through my log files this weekend and try to give you more specifics. If you have time, you can check out the fedora-docs module and run make pdf in the developer-guide or documentation-guide directory and see the error messages. Maybe they mean more to you than me. Tammy > (No progress on that by the way. Needs a TeX hacker, or a tool > written in a different language.) > > Tim. > */ From lsdr at lsdr.net Thu Oct 2 19:28:41 2003 From: lsdr at lsdr.net (Luiz Rocha) Date: Thu, 2 Oct 2003 16:28:41 -0300 Subject: docs translation In-Reply-To: <20031002173730.GZ21640@redhat.com> References: <200309290159.13551.lsdr@lsdr.net> <200310020228.10556.lsdr@lsdr.net> <20031002173730.GZ21640@redhat.com> Message-ID: <200310021628.41097.lsdr@lsdr.net> > I think the internal RH translators use po2xml, xml2pot, and msguniq. Thanks, Tammy. -- Luiz Rocha From lsdr at lsdr.net Fri Oct 3 00:37:06 2003 From: lsdr at lsdr.net (Luiz Rocha) Date: Thu, 2 Oct 2003 21:37:06 -0300 Subject: background stuff In-Reply-To: <20031002205347.GN21640@redhat.com> References: <200310020250.56370.lsdr@lsdr.net> <20031002204256.GB2229@redhat.com> <20031002205347.GN21640@redhat.com> Message-ID: <200310022137.06355.lsdr@lsdr.net> > > I already know about the problem -- are > > there more problems then? > > Yes. I tried this about a month and a half ago, so I don't remember > the specifics. Certain table attributes seemed to make it stop and if > I had I think this kind of problems could be solved preprocessing the file before trying to do the transformation, don't you? If the XML is preprocessed by a script (I thought about using python + libxml, since both are part of Fedora Core), to clean excessive spaces, resolv the entities (& and others) before trying to transform into PDF it may solve this problem without making the XML a invalid DocBook. Of course, it is just a first thought. It might be the wrong approach to the problem. -- Luiz Rocha From paul at frields.com Fri Oct 3 02:26:32 2003 From: paul at frields.com (Paul W. Frields) Date: Thu, 02 Oct 2003 22:26:32 -0400 Subject: DTD parsing help for non-Emacs guy Message-ID: <1065147992.4112.9.camel@bettie.internal.frields.org> I grabbed the CVS of fedora-docs and just to see what Emacs/PSGML is/are all about, I am following Tammy's instructions in the Doc Guide. (I am using XEmacs under Fedora 0.94.) I decided to start simply by goofing around with the copy of the documentation-guide already present. In short, I can't get the DTD parsed; I get the error: /usr/share/sgml/docbook/sgml-dtd-4.1-1.0-22.1/docbook.dtd line 63 col 47 entity book /home/paul/fedora-docs/documentation-guide/documentation-guide.xml line 28 col 1 XML requires a system ID after a public ID This was generated using Emacs/PSGML, I'm assuming, so I am at a loss as to why this won't work... I thought briefly about going and looking up the DocBook/XML markup standards, but that seems like overkill when the answer is probably trivial. Can anyone slap me silly and explain what I should be doing? This is my intro to both Emacs and DocBook/XML, although I am familiar with writing HTML by hand... my work doesn't require a lot of this sort of skill, so use wet noodles or a trout please. Thanks in advance and sorry for the density. -- Paul W. Frields -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: signature.asc Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 189 bytes Desc: This is a digitally signed message part URL: From twaugh at redhat.com Fri Oct 3 09:14:38 2003 From: twaugh at redhat.com (Tim Waugh) Date: Fri, 3 Oct 2003 10:14:38 +0100 Subject: background stuff In-Reply-To: <200310022137.06355.lsdr@lsdr.net> References: <200310020250.56370.lsdr@lsdr.net> <20031002204256.GB2229@redhat.com> <20031002205347.GN21640@redhat.com> <200310022137.06355.lsdr@lsdr.net> Message-ID: <20031003091438.GD2229@redhat.com> On Thu, Oct 02, 2003 at 09:37:06PM -0300, Luiz Rocha wrote: > Of course, it is just a first thought. It might be the wrong > approach to the problem. Better would be to fix the bugs. :-) I hadn't heard about this problem before now. Tim. */ -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 189 bytes Desc: not available URL: From gavin.henry at magicfx.co.uk Fri Oct 3 11:22:31 2003 From: gavin.henry at magicfx.co.uk (Gavin Henry) Date: Fri, 3 Oct 2003 12:22:31 +0100 Subject: docs-xml-tags.patch In-Reply-To: <20031002174221.GA21640@redhat.com> References: <20031002145328.7882b0db.gavin.henry@magicfx.co.uk> <20031002162902.GX21640@redhat.com> <200310021735.30338.gavin.henry@magicfx.co.uk> <20031002174221.GA21640@redhat.com> Message-ID: <20031003122231.20c26c9e.gavin.henry@magicfx.co.uk> On Thu, 2 Oct 2003 13:42:22 -0400 Tammy Fox wrote: > On Thu, Oct 02, 2003 at 05:35:29PM +0100, G Henry wrote: > > -----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- > > Hash: SHA1 > > > > On Thursday 02 Oct 2003 5:29 pm, Tammy Fox wrote: > > > Unfortunately, we do not have the infrastructure available to give > > > people outside RH write access to the repository yet. I just asked > > > some people on the Steering Committee, and they said it will be > > > available in the next few months. > > > > > > In the meantime, you can send me a patch. > > > > > > > > > A patch as in patch -p1 < etc > > > > Or just what I want to change/add? > > A patch or a unified diff is fine. A brief description of what the > changes are would also be nice. Here's the patch. All it does it change eps and png to EPS and PNG and adds / to the end, as I couldn't get your figure example to work without the above. I also added 2 other types of figures and added the bits of those that should be edited. This is my first patch and I did it work, so it only works when you say yes to the "Apply -R" bit. Sorry. Hope I got the other 2 types of figures right? -- Regards, Gavin Henry. Trying to be a RHCE..... http://www.magicfx.co.uk http://www.suretecsystems.com -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: docs-xml-tags.patch Type: application/octet-stream Size: 3471 bytes Desc: not available URL: -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 189 bytes Desc: not available URL: From John.Himpel at edwardjones.com Fri Oct 3 14:01:30 2003 From: John.Himpel at edwardjones.com (John.Himpel at edwardjones.com) Date: Fri, 03 Oct 2003 09:01:30 -0500 Subject: DTD parsing help for non-Emacs guy In-Reply-To: <1065147992.4112.9.camel@bettie.internal.frields.org> Message-ID: Paul and the other newbies to DocBook, May I recommend two excellent resources: 1) http://docbook.org/tdg/en/html/docbook.html <-- More of a reference than a tutorial 2) http://www.sagehill.net/docbookxsl/index.html <-- Combination tutorial and reference book They describe how to setup the tools [2] and what is valid docbook [1]. I believe xmlto is the recommended tool for Fedora and it isn't directly described in the above. But xmlto (IIRC) is just a wrapper around some of these tools. Docbook and the toolchain is a long hill (but not too steep :-) ) to climb. But the view from the top is worth it. John From gavin.henry at magicfx.co.uk Fri Oct 3 14:29:44 2003 From: gavin.henry at magicfx.co.uk (Gavin Henry) Date: Fri, 3 Oct 2003 15:29:44 +0100 Subject: docs-xml-tags.patch Message-ID: <20031003152944.3a929054.gavin.henry@magicfx.co.uk> Here's the patch. All it does it change eps and png to EPS and PNG and adds / to the end, as I couldn't get your figure example to work without the above. I also added 2 other types of figures and added the bits of those that should be edited. This is my first patch and I did it work, so it only works when you say yes to the "Apply -R" bit. Sorry. Hope I got the other 2 types of figures right? Should I have put my name anywhere in the patch? -- Regards, Gavin Henry. Trying to be a RHCE..... http://www.magicfx.co.uk http://www.suretecsystems.com -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 189 bytes Desc: not available URL: From gavin.henry at magicfx.co.uk Fri Oct 3 14:33:41 2003 From: gavin.henry at magicfx.co.uk (Gavin Henry) Date: Fri, 3 Oct 2003 15:33:41 +0100 Subject: docs-xml-tags.patch In-Reply-To: <20031003152944.3a929054.gavin.henry@magicfx.co.uk> References: <20031003152944.3a929054.gavin.henry@magicfx.co.uk> Message-ID: <20031003153341.00396c97.gavin.henry@magicfx.co.uk> Sorry, it's attached here. -- Regards, Gavin Henry. Trying to be a RHCE..... http://www.magicfx.co.uk http://www.suretecsystems.com -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: docs-xml-tags.patch Type: application/octet-stream Size: 3471 bytes Desc: not available URL: -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 189 bytes Desc: not available URL: From tfox at redhat.com Fri Oct 3 14:35:02 2003 From: tfox at redhat.com (Tammy Fox) Date: Fri, 3 Oct 2003 10:35:02 -0400 Subject: docs-xml-tags.patch In-Reply-To: <20031003152944.3a929054.gavin.henry@magicfx.co.uk> References: <20031003152944.3a929054.gavin.henry@magicfx.co.uk> Message-ID: <20031003143502.GB28737@redhat.com> On Fri, Oct 03, 2003 at 03:29:44PM +0100, Gavin Henry wrote: > Here's the patch. > > All it does it change eps and png to EPS and PNG and adds / to the end, as I couldn't get your figure example to work without the above. I also added 2 other types of figures and added the bits of those that should be edited. > > This is my first patch and I did it work, so it only works when you say yes to the "Apply -R" bit. Sorry. > No biggie. I'll look at the patch today. > Hope I got the other 2 types of figures right? > I'll let you know after I read it. > Should I have put my name anywhere in the patch? > I'll start an acknowledgements section to list everyone who has sent in a patch that has been applied. Significant contributors will get their name on the first page as an author. Cheers, Tammy > -- > Regards, > > Gavin Henry. > > Trying to be a RHCE..... > http://www.magicfx.co.uk > http://www.suretecsystems.com From paul at frields.com Fri Oct 3 14:49:06 2003 From: paul at frields.com (Paul W. Frields) Date: 03 Oct 2003 10:49:06 -0400 Subject: DTD parsing help for non-Emacs guy In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <1065192545.23372.24.camel@localhost.localdomain> On Fri, 2003-10-03 at 10:01, John.Himpel at edwardjones.com wrote: > Paul and the other newbies to DocBook, > > May I recommend two excellent resources: > > 1) http://docbook.org/tdg/en/html/docbook.html <-- More of a > reference than a tutorial > 2) http://www.sagehill.net/docbookxsl/index.html <-- Combination > tutorial and reference book > > They describe how to setup the tools [2] and what is valid docbook > [1]. > > I believe xmlto is the recommended tool for Fedora and it isn't > directly described in the above. > But xmlto (IIRC) is just a wrapper around some of these tools. > > Docbook and the toolchain is a long hill (but not too steep :-) ) to > climb. But the view from the > top is worth it. Great tips, I have been checking both sites out. I found my problem, and it was simply due to being unfamiliar with the Emacs tool distribution. -- Paul W. Frields From lsdr at lsdr.net Sat Oct 4 04:56:13 2003 From: lsdr at lsdr.net (Luiz Rocha) Date: Sat, 4 Oct 2003 01:56:13 -0300 Subject: background stuff In-Reply-To: <20031003091438.GD2229@redhat.com> References: <200310020250.56370.lsdr@lsdr.net> <200310022137.06355.lsdr@lsdr.net> <20031003091438.GD2229@redhat.com> Message-ID: <200310040156.13897.lsdr@lsdr.net> > Better would be to fix the bugs. :-) I hadn't heard about this > problem before now. I knew I missed something... :) What I understood is that fixing the causes of the failure would result in a non-valid DocBook XML, which is no good. I might be wrong, though. -- Luiz Rocha From byte at bytebot.net Sun Oct 5 08:42:58 2003 From: byte at bytebot.net (Colin Charles) Date: Sun, 05 Oct 2003 18:42:58 +1000 Subject: Greetings In-Reply-To: <20031002161827.GV21640@redhat.com> References: <1065056602.7358.7.camel@bettie.internal.frields.org> <20031002035911.GA14826@redhat.com> <200310020242.44879.lsdr@lsdr.net> <20031002161827.GV21640@redhat.com> Message-ID: <1065343378.3595.101.camel@potter.aeon.com.my> On Fri, 2003-10-03 at 02:18, Tammy Fox wrote: > Great. Thanks. I have added you to the list that should appear on the > Docs Project page soon. I would like to volunteer to be an Editor. I've been a Linux user for over 8 years, and most of my time has been spent with Red Hat Linux. I've recently installed the Fedora Test 2 as well, and would love to keep tabs on already pre-written documentation. Currently, I am also an active participant in the OpenOffice.org project. Kind regards. -- Colin Charles, byte at aeon.com.my OpenOffice.org Unofficial FAQ: http://www.bytebot.net/openoffice/faq.html From info at redhatforum.net Mon Oct 6 08:23:11 2003 From: info at redhatforum.net (info) Date: Mon, 6 Oct 2003 10:23:11 +0200 Subject: converting xml in html-one-file problem Message-ID: <200310060823.h968NBgK032008@webmailer.hosteurope.de> Greetz everybody, I?m interrested to contribute to the documentation project as a translator. I think this is a good ideea ;) So to my problem: when i?m converting an xml file with: \"make html test.xml\" works fine also for \"make pdf test.xml\" but if i want to convert a file with: \"xmlto -x main-html.xls html-nochunks test.xml\" to produce only one html file i get an error like: \"cp: /tmp/xmlto-xxx/test.proc no such file or directory\" \"xmlto html-nochunks test.xml\" works well but it doesn?t include any stylesheets and therefore it is not what a documentation (for the fedora doc project) has to look like. Can anyone help me out with this? Thx Christian Huegelc From info at redhatforum.net Mon Oct 6 09:30:26 2003 From: info at redhatforum.net (info) Date: Mon, 6 Oct 2003 11:30:26 +0200 Subject: converting xml in html-one-file problem Message-ID: <200310060930.h969UQC3002786@webmailer.hosteurope.de> Greetz everybody, I=B4m interrested to contribute to the documentation project as a transl= ator. I think this is a good ideea ;) So to my problem: when i=B4m converting an xml file with: \\\"make html test.xml\\\" works fine also for \\\"make pdf test.xml\\\"=20 but if i want to convert a file with: \\\"xmlto -x main-html.xls html-nochunks test.xml\\\" to produce only one htm= l file i get an error like: \\\"cp: /tmp/xmlto-xxx/test.proc no such file o= r directory\\\" \\\"xmlto html-nochunks test.xml\\\" works well but it doesn=B4t include any = stylesheets and therefore it is not what a documentation (for the fedora = doc project) has to look like. Can anyone help me out with this? Thx Christian Huegelc Sorry for my mail-name i will change the mail address soon.... From tfox at redhat.com Fri Oct 10 15:36:54 2003 From: tfox at redhat.com (Tammy Fox) Date: Fri, 10 Oct 2003 11:36:54 -0400 Subject: docs-xml-tags.patch In-Reply-To: <20031003152944.3a929054.gavin.henry@magicfx.co.uk> References: <20031003152944.3a929054.gavin.henry@magicfx.co.uk> Message-ID: <20031010153653.GA29170@redhat.com> I finally had time to look at this patch. You are right about the changing eps and png to EPS and PNG and adds / to the end. I forgot to change that when I converted this doc from SGML to XML. In regards to the different types of figures, what is the advantage of using different declarations? If they look the same, I would prefer to stick to one to make the code as simple as possible. Tammy On Fri, Oct 03, 2003 at 03:29:44PM +0100, Gavin Henry wrote: > Here's the patch. > > All it does it change eps and png to EPS and PNG and adds / to the end, as I couldn't get your figure example to work without the above. I also added 2 other types of figures and added the bits of those that should be edited. > > This is my first patch and I did it work, so it only works when you say yes to the "Apply -R" bit. Sorry. > > Hope I got the other 2 types of figures right? > > Should I have put my name anywhere in the patch? > > -- > Regards, > > Gavin Henry. > > Trying to be a RHCE..... > http://www.magicfx.co.uk > http://www.suretecsystems.com From wen at us.ibm.com Fri Oct 10 17:02:09 2003 From: wen at us.ibm.com (Wen-Jiunn Chin) Date: Fri, 10 Oct 2003 13:02:09 -0400 Subject: Wen-Jiunn Chin/Endicott/IBM is out of the office. Message-ID: I will be out of the office starting October 9, 2003 and will not return until October 14, 2003. I am out of the office from 10/09/03, returning 10/14/03. You will receive only this notification of my absence prior to my return, at which time I will respond. Please contact Syed Abuthagir for GWA. Please contact my manager David Albright, for emergencies. From gavin.henry at magicfx.co.uk Mon Oct 13 09:17:29 2003 From: gavin.henry at magicfx.co.uk (Gavin Henry) Date: Mon, 13 Oct 2003 10:17:29 +0100 Subject: docs-xml-tags.patch In-Reply-To: <20031010153653.GA29170@redhat.com> References: <20031003152944.3a929054.gavin.henry@magicfx.co.uk> <20031010153653.GA29170@redhat.com> Message-ID: <20031013101730.39aad40a.gavin.henry@magicfx.co.uk> On Fri, 10 Oct 2003 11:36:54 -0400 Tammy Fox wrote: > I finally had time to look at this patch. You are right about the > changing eps and png to EPS and PNG and adds / to the end. I forgot to > change that when I converted this doc from SGML to XML. > > In regards to the different types of figures, what is the advantage of > using different declarations? If they look the same, I would prefer to > stick to one to make the code as simple as possible. Nothing really, as far as I could tell. I just read the different ways to do it, although they all look the same. If we want simplicity, then just stick with the one you have, and change the case etc. Regards, -- Regards, Gavin Henry. Trying to be a RHCE..... http://www.magicfx.co.uk http://www.suretecsystems.com -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 189 bytes Desc: not available URL: From daniel at informatux.net Tue Oct 14 23:07:37 2003 From: daniel at informatux.net (Daniel Bahena) Date: 14 Oct 2003 18:07:37 -0500 Subject: where to start? Message-ID: <1066172857.645.12.camel@laptop> Hi As you can see I'm new on the list and also in the translation section. How can I start to translate documentation? In http://fedora.redhat.com/projects/translations/ they only mention that the translations are done via po files, but, how do I get this files? from where? Can anybody point me to the right direction? Best wishes -- Daniel Bahena Informatux.net From tfox at redhat.com Wed Oct 15 16:38:33 2003 From: tfox at redhat.com (Tammy Fox) Date: Wed, 15 Oct 2003 12:38:33 -0400 Subject: where to start? In-Reply-To: <1066172857.645.12.camel@laptop> References: <1066172857.645.12.camel@laptop> Message-ID: <20031015163833.GG2396@redhat.com> We don't have a translation process in place yet. We have discussed different options such as translating the DocBook XML files directly and using po files. I think everyone agreed that po files are the way to go. The leaders of the translation project are extremely busy with some internal projects right now. I'll contact them again and see if they can give us a time estimate on when they are going to setup the po files. Tammy On Tue, Oct 14, 2003 at 06:07:37PM -0500, Daniel Bahena wrote: > Hi > > As you can see I'm new on the list and also in the translation section. > > How can I start to translate documentation? In > http://fedora.redhat.com/projects/translations/ they only mention that > the translations are done via po files, but, how do I get this files? > from where? > > Can anybody point me to the right direction? > > Best wishes > -- > Daniel Bahena > Informatux.net > > > -- > fedora-docs-list mailing list > fedora-docs-list at redhat.com > http://www.redhat.com/mailman/listinfo/fedora-docs-list From carlosh at iies.es Wed Oct 22 17:23:51 2003 From: carlosh at iies.es (Carlos Hergueta) Date: Wed, 22 Oct 2003 19:23:51 +0200 Subject: Need for spanish traslator? Message-ID: <1066843430.2089.7.camel@herg.fedora.org> Hi, I'm Carlos Hergueta from Spain. If there's any need for spanish traslator please let me know. Regards, From carlosh at iies.es Wed Oct 22 17:32:56 2003 From: carlosh at iies.es (Carlos Hergueta) Date: Wed, 22 Oct 2003 19:32:56 +0200 Subject: carlosh@iies.es Message-ID: <1066843975.2089.9.camel@herg.fedora.org> carlosh at iies.es From thomas.bludau at epost.de Sat Oct 25 16:53:02 2003 From: thomas.bludau at epost.de (Thomas Bludau) Date: 25 Oct 2003 18:53:02 +0200 Subject: German Translation Message-ID: <1067100781.5407.7.camel@localhost.localdomain> Hi, sorry if this is a double posting. But in Fedora beta 3 release 0.95 (Severn) i found a translation error in the Menu. Under System Configuration (Systemeinstellungen) i found "Drucke" instead of "Drucken" or "Drucker" (print, printer) Where can i told this failsure? in bugzilla.redhat.com? Best Regards Thomas Bludau From kwade at redhat.com Sun Oct 26 02:22:25 2003 From: kwade at redhat.com (Karsten Wade) Date: 25 Oct 2003 19:22:25 -0700 Subject: German Translation In-Reply-To: <1067100781.5407.7.camel@localhost.localdomain> References: <1067100781.5407.7.camel@localhost.localdomain> Message-ID: <1067134944.29044.212.camel@erato.phig.org> On Sat, 2003-10-25 at 09:53, Thomas Bludau wrote: > Hi, > > sorry if this is a double posting. But in Fedora beta 3 release 0.95 > (Severn) i found a translation error in the Menu. Under System > Configuration (Systemeinstellungen) i found "Drucke" instead of > "Drucken" or "Drucker" (print, printer) > > Where can i told this failsure? in bugzilla.redhat.com? The following is just my thinking/opinion. I expect that I'm slightly wrong and will need to be corrected. :) The correct location would be in bugzilla, against Fedora Core Test 3. The "Component" that seems most obvious to me is "redhat-menus". I don't see any component that seems related to translation in particular. If the developer who receives the bug report thinks it belongs somewhere else, he'll bounce the bug to the correct component/person. Note that this is different from the process for reporting an error in documentation (actual manuals and guides). Those are also filed in bugzilla, but each guide will have it's own unique component ID. For example, the Red Hat Linux 9 Installation Guide has the unique ID rhl-ig-x86: http://www.redhat.com/docs/manuals/linux/RHL-9-Manual/install-guide/s1-intro-howto.html#S2-INTRO-FEEDBACK Presumably we will follow a similar system, so that the Fedora Core Installation Guide would have a unique ID of e.g. fc-ig-x86. HTH, sorry for the long-winded response. :) - Karsten > > > Best Regards > Thomas Bludau > > > -- > fedora-docs-list mailing list > fedora-docs-list at redhat.com > http://www.redhat.com/mailman/listinfo/fedora-docs-list -- Karsten Wade : Tech Writer, RHCE : o: +1.831.466.9664 kwade at redhat.com : http://rhea.redhat.com/ : c: +1.831.818.9995 Red Hat Enterprise Applications : WAF, CMS, Portal Server -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- From christian.huegel at redhatforum.net Sun Oct 26 12:12:41 2003 From: christian.huegel at redhatforum.net (christian.huegel) Date: Sun, 26 Oct 2003 13:12:41 +0100 Subject: Convert XML to HTML-one-file Message-ID: <200310261212.h9QCCf7K010163@webmailer.hosteurope.de> Hi, my problem is i can not produce html files in an printable format. The \"make html\" command works well, admonitions are shown etc. For PDF output the admonitions doesn`t work so i can?t use it. How can i do this? Is there an HOWTO to make an html-one-file with the apropiate stylesheet for the Fedora Doc Project? Thx in advance Christian From kwade at redhat.com Sun Oct 26 19:37:48 2003 From: kwade at redhat.com (Karsten Wade) Date: 26 Oct 2003 11:37:48 -0800 Subject: Convert XML to HTML-one-file In-Reply-To: <200310261212.h9QCCf7K010163@webmailer.hosteurope.de> References: <200310261212.h9QCCf7K010163@webmailer.hosteurope.de> Message-ID: <1067197067.29044.286.camel@erato.phig.org> On Sun, 2003-10-26 at 04:12, christian.huegel at redhatforum.net wrote: > Hi, > > my problem is i can not produce html files in an printable format. > The \"make html\" command works well, admonitions are shown etc. > For PDF output the admonitions doesn`t work so i cant use it. > How can i do this? Is there an HOWTO to make an html-one-file with the apropiate stylesheet for the Fedora Doc Project? Off-hand, I don't know for certain, but it's possible that this is broken in the Fedora Project docs. I recall that Tammy was having some problems with PDF output. I'll take a look at the scripts later on. Which module are you trying to build? Just the Documentation Guide? - Karsten -- Karsten Wade : Tech Writer, RHCE : o: +1.831.466.9664 kwade at redhat.com : http://rhea.redhat.com/ : c: +1.831.818.9995 Red Hat Enterprise Applications : WAF, CMS, Portal Server -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- From pauln at truemesh.com Sun Oct 26 20:44:27 2003 From: pauln at truemesh.com (Paul Nasrat) Date: Sun, 26 Oct 2003 20:44:27 +0000 Subject: Convert XML to HTML-one-file In-Reply-To: <200310261212.h9QCCf7K010163@webmailer.hosteurope.de> References: <200310261212.h9QCCf7K010163@webmailer.hosteurope.de> Message-ID: <20031026204426.GB5672@shitake.truemesh.com> On Sun, Oct 26, 2003 at 01:12:41PM +0100, christian.huegel wrote: > my problem is i can not produce html files in an printable format. > The \"make html\" command works well, admonitions are shown etc. > For PDF output the admonitions doesn`t work so i can?t use it. There are a few different issues the developers guide has a quick hack (invalidates one link) - available at http://pauln.truemesh.com/developers-guide.html. Paul From pauln at truemesh.com Sun Oct 26 20:46:58 2003 From: pauln at truemesh.com (Paul Nasrat) Date: Sun, 26 Oct 2003 20:46:58 +0000 Subject: Convert XML to HTML-one-file In-Reply-To: <1067197067.29044.286.camel@erato.phig.org> References: <200310261212.h9QCCf7K010163@webmailer.hosteurope.de> <1067197067.29044.286.camel@erato.phig.org> Message-ID: <20031026204658.GC5672@shitake.truemesh.com> On Sun, Oct 26, 2003 at 11:37:48AM -0800, Karsten Wade wrote: > Off-hand, I don't know for certain, but it's possible that this is > broken in the Fedora Project docs. I recall that Tammy was having some > problems with PDF output. I'll take a look at the scripts later on. I don't suppose you know TeX internals? https://bugzilla.redhat.com/bugzilla/show_bug.cgi?id=104983 Tammy posted about some of the issues with the other guides on list. Paul From christian.huegel at redhatforum.net Mon Oct 27 15:13:27 2003 From: christian.huegel at redhatforum.net (christian.huegel) Date: Mon, 27 Oct 2003 16:13:27 +0100 Subject: Convert XML to HTML-one-file Message-ID: <200310271513.h9RFDRpS014664@webmailer.hosteurope.de> >There are a few different issues the developers guide has a quick hack >(invalidates one link) - available at >http://pauln.truemesh.com/developers-guide.html. >Paul Hi Paul, the Link seems to be broken ?! From pauln at truemesh.com Mon Oct 27 15:19:32 2003 From: pauln at truemesh.com (Paul Nasrat) Date: Mon, 27 Oct 2003 15:19:32 +0000 Subject: Convert XML to HTML-one-file In-Reply-To: <200310271513.h9RFDRpS014664@webmailer.hosteurope.de> References: <200310271513.h9RFDRpS014664@webmailer.hosteurope.de> Message-ID: <20031027151928.GF5672@shitake.truemesh.com> On Mon, Oct 27, 2003 at 04:13:27PM +0100, christian.huegel wrote: > Hi Paul, > > the Link seems to be broken ?! D'oh, I apologise slight brain fart: http://pauln.truemesh.com/developers-guide.pdf Paul From christian.huegel at redhatforum.net Mon Oct 27 16:14:39 2003 From: christian.huegel at redhatforum.net (christian.huegel) Date: Mon, 27 Oct 2003 17:14:39 +0100 Subject: Convert XML to HTML-one-file Message-ID: <200310271614.h9RGEdKm017698@webmailer.hosteurope.de> >Off-hand, I don\'t know for certain, but it\'s possible that this is >broken in the Fedora Project docs. I recall that Tammy was having some >problems with PDF output. I\'ll take a look at the scripts later on. >Which module are you trying to build? Just the Documentation Guide? >- Karsten Hi Karsten, well i tried to build the Documentation Guide from the CVS, exactly the example tutorial to test ist out before translating some docs. Many people asked me if i can?t provide printable docs and now im stucked... As i said everything worked fine till converting XML to PDF cause the admonition aren?t shown. I tried to run the xmlto script with the option -x main-html.xsl html-nochunks But it didn`t worked. Except without giving the option -x which defines the official stylesheet for Fedora documentations. The output was one html file whith black sections instead of red and without admonitions.... Best regards Christian From tfox at redhat.com Mon Oct 27 20:20:12 2003 From: tfox at redhat.com (Tammy Fox) Date: Mon, 27 Oct 2003 15:20:12 -0500 Subject: German Translation In-Reply-To: <1067100781.5407.7.camel@localhost.localdomain> References: <1067100781.5407.7.camel@localhost.localdomain> Message-ID: <20031027202011.GC752@redhat.com> On Sat, Oct 25, 2003 at 06:53:02PM +0200, Thomas Bludau wrote: > Hi, > > sorry if this is a double posting. But in Fedora beta 3 release 0.95 > (Severn) i found a translation error in the Menu. Under System > Configuration (Systemeinstellungen) i found "Drucke" instead of > "Drucken" or "Drucker" (print, printer) > > Where can i told this failsure? in bugzilla.redhat.com? > > Bugzilla is the place to report it. Is it for the redhat-config-printer menu item? If so, you can report it against that package. Tammy From aph.p at online.fr Wed Oct 29 01:42:28 2003 From: aph.p at online.fr (Alain) Date: Wed, 29 Oct 2003 02:42:28 +0100 Subject: Translation in French Message-ID: <1067391747.9544.0.camel@nyarlathotep.fedora> Hello, We'd like to create a website and a mailing list in french about Fedora. Is there anyone who has already began to translate it ? How can we manage: should we make an indipendant site or send you the translated pages ? (We already have a spaceweb for this : fedora.tuxfamily.org) Friendly yours. Colette and Alain. -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: signature.asc Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 189 bytes Desc: Ceci est une partie de message num?riquement sign?e. URL: From christian.huegel at redhatforum.net Wed Oct 29 13:03:12 2003 From: christian.huegel at redhatforum.net (christian.huegel) Date: Wed, 29 Oct 2003 14:03:12 +0100 Subject: Logo Font Message-ID: <200310291303.h9TD3CDN004341@webmailer.hosteurope.de> Hello, can enybody tell my what font is the Fedora Project Logo made with? Thx Best regards Christian From matthias at rpmforge.net Wed Oct 29 13:13:45 2003 From: matthias at rpmforge.net (Matthias Saou) Date: Wed, 29 Oct 2003 14:13:45 +0100 Subject: Logo Font In-Reply-To: <200310291303.h9TD3CDN004341@webmailer.hosteurope.de> References: <200310291303.h9TD3CDN004341@webmailer.hosteurope.de> Message-ID: <20031029141345.69516027.matthias@rpmforge.net> christian.huegel wrote : > can enybody tell my what font is the Fedora Project Logo made with? Here's what Garrett already previously answered. Matthias From: Garrett LeSage To: fedora-test-list at redhat.com Subject: Re: Fedora Logo Font name? Date: Tue, 21 Oct 2003 15:25:48 -0400 roberTO.studiOS wrote: > Hi! > > Please! What font used in the FEDORA Logo??? > > Thanks! It is a modified Myriad bold italic. Garrett -- Clean custom Red Hat Linux rpm packages : http://freshrpms.net/ Fedora Core release 0.95 (Severn) - Linux kernel 2.4.22-20.1.2024.2.36.nptl Load : 0.10 0.26 0.44 From christian.huegel at redhatforum.net Wed Oct 29 14:04:33 2003 From: christian.huegel at redhatforum.net (christian.huegel) Date: Wed, 29 Oct 2003 15:04:33 +0100 Subject: Logo Font Message-ID: <200310291404.h9TE4X9u007432@webmailer.hosteurope.de> christian.huegel wrote : > can enybody tell my what font is the Fedora Project Logo made with? Here\'s what Garrett already previously answered. Matthias From: Garrett LeSage To: fedora-test-list at redhat.com Subject: Re: Fedora Logo Font name? Date: Tue, 21 Oct 2003 15:25:48 -0400 roberTO.studiOS wrote: > Hi! > > Please! What font used in the FEDORA Logo??? > > Thanks! >It is a modified Myriad bold italic. >Garrett >-- >Clean custom Red Hat Linux rpm packages : http://freshrpms.net/ >Fedora Core release 0.95 (Severn) - Linux kernel 2.4.22-20.1.2024.2.36.nptl >Load : 0.10 0.26 0.44 Hi Matthias, thanks a lot.... Greetz Christian From christian.huegel at redhatforum.net Wed Oct 29 14:30:44 2003 From: christian.huegel at redhatforum.net (christian.huegel) Date: Wed, 29 Oct 2003 15:30:44 +0100 Subject: Logo Font Message-ID: <200310291430.h9TEUiPo008603@webmailer.hosteurope.de> >It is a modified Myriad bold italic. >Garrett >-- >Clean custom Red Hat Linux rpm packages : http://freshrpms.net/ >Fedora Core release 0.95 (Severn) - Linux kernel 2.4.22-20.1.2024.2.36.nptl >Load : 0.10 0.26 0.44 ...what a pitty ....its a commercial font ;( further, i didn?t find the modified one ... P.S. Sorry if this thread is OT but i didn`t find an appropiate place to post it Best regard Christian From christian.huegel at redhatforum.net Thu Oct 30 12:17:24 2003 From: christian.huegel at redhatforum.net (christian.huegel) Date: Thu, 30 Oct 2003 13:17:24 +0100 Subject: Legal Notice in German Message-ID: <200310301217.h9UCHOYW015098@webmailer.hosteurope.de> Hi, i wanted to ask if there is an translation already aviable for the legalnotice.html file before i start to translate it..... Thx Christian From ed at redhat.com Thu Oct 30 12:44:59 2003 From: ed at redhat.com (Edward C. Bailey) Date: Thu, 30 Oct 2003 07:44:59 -0500 Subject: Legal Notice in German In-Reply-To: <200310301217.h9UCHOYW015098@webmailer.hosteurope.de> (christian huegel's message of "Thu, 30 Oct 2003 13:17:24 +0100") References: <200310301217.h9UCHOYW015098@webmailer.hosteurope.de> Message-ID: >>>>> "christian" == christian huegel writes: christian> Hi, i wanted to ask if there is an translation already aviable christian> for the legalnotice.html file before i start to translate christian> it..... I'm not the Docs project leader (so I can't say for sure) but I don't think there is a German translation for it. However, you should be aware that translating legal content is not the same as translating non-legal content. From a legal standpoint, unless the translation has been done by someone with both the necessary language and legal skills, the translation has no legal status. And this does not even address the fact that the legal aspects of the content may need to be changed to reflect the laws of the country or countries where the translated content will be read. In the past, we have take the approach that the original English legal content can be translated, but the following things must be done: o A notice must precede the translated legal content stating that the translation is for the readers' convenience only, and that only the original English version has any legal standing o The original English legal content must remain intact I will leave it to the Docs project leader to decide what is best to do here, but I wanted to make you aware of the issues surrounding the translation of legal content... Ed -- Ed Bailey Red Hat, Inc. http://www.redhat.com/ From tfox at redhat.com Thu Oct 30 16:07:12 2003 From: tfox at redhat.com (Tammy Fox) Date: Thu, 30 Oct 2003 11:07:12 -0500 Subject: Legal Notice in German In-Reply-To: References: <200310301217.h9UCHOYW015098@webmailer.hosteurope.de> Message-ID: <20031030160711.GB28075@redhat.com> On Thu, Oct 30, 2003 at 07:44:59AM -0500, Edward C. Bailey wrote: > >>>>> "christian" == christian huegel writes: > > christian> Hi, i wanted to ask if there is an translation already aviable > christian> for the legalnotice.html file before i start to translate > christian> it..... > > I'm not the Docs project leader (so I can't say for sure) but I don't think > there is a German translation for it. > No. No one has submitted any translations of the Fedora docs yet. > However, you should be aware that translating legal content is not the same > as translating non-legal content. From a legal standpoint, unless the > translation has been done by someone with both the necessary language and > legal skills, the translation has no legal status. And this does not even > address the fact that the legal aspects of the content may need to be > changed to reflect the laws of the country or countries where the > translated content will be read. > > In the past, we have take the approach that the original English legal > content can be translated, but the following things must be done: > > o A notice must precede the translated legal content stating that the > translation is for the readers' convenience only, and that only the > original English version has any legal standing > > o The original English legal content must remain intact > > I will leave it to the Docs project leader to decide what is best to do > here, but I wanted to make you aware of the issues surrounding the > translation of legal content... > > Ed Ed's comments seem like a reasonable approach. I'll check with our legal department to confirm. Tammy From tanis at taniz.org Fri Oct 31 09:26:59 2003 From: tanis at taniz.org (Andreu Sanchez) Date: Fri, 31 Oct 2003 10:26:59 +0100 Subject: Spanish Translation Message-ID: <1067592418.2033.26.camel@taniz.org> Hi, I'm new to the list so i must say "hi to the list members" first. I'm a system administrator from spain, exactly from Catalunya, using redhat for the last 5 years and i would like to help translation fedora to spanish. I don't know if there's a project or any other person who started translating, so i would want to know where i have to start. Regards, -- ------------------------------------------------------------------- | Andreu S?nchez - http://www.taniz.org/ - Clickety-click! | | Fingerprint = 3ADA 69EF 4E84 DEC8 D219 6863 83F0 513E 06AE 46D1 | | GnuPG key: 06AE46D1 ( pgp.mit.edu - www.keyserver.net ) | ------------------------------------------------------------------- -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: signature.asc Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 189 bytes Desc: Esta parte del mensaje est? firmada digitalmente URL: From carlosh at iies.es Fri Oct 31 10:48:19 2003 From: carlosh at iies.es (Carlos Hergueta) Date: Fri, 31 Oct 2003 10:48:19 +0000 Subject: Spanish Translation In-Reply-To: <1067592418.2033.26.camel@taniz.org> References: <1067592418.2033.26.camel@taniz.org> Message-ID: <1067597258.1944.24.camel@chergueta> Hi Andreu, I'm also from Spain, and I asked the same question some weeks ago. I have no answer, but maybe what we should do is to identify some interesting documents and see if they are translated to spanish, if they are not then tell the documentation lider that we are going to start the translation. It would be nice if one of those liders could tell us about the mechanisn. Regards, El vie, 31-10-2003 a las 09:26, Andreu Sanchez escribi??: > Hi, > > I'm new to the list so i must say "hi to the list members" first. > > I'm a system administrator from spain, exactly from Catalunya, using > redhat for the last 5 years and i would like to help translation fedora > to spanish. I don't know if there's a project or any other person who > started translating, so i would want to know where i have to start. > > Regards, From kwade at redhat.com Fri Oct 31 17:35:10 2003 From: kwade at redhat.com (Karsten Wade) Date: 31 Oct 2003 09:35:10 -0800 Subject: Spanish Translation In-Reply-To: <1067597258.1944.24.camel@chergueta> References: <1067592418.2033.26.camel@taniz.org> <1067597258.1944.24.camel@chergueta> Message-ID: <1067621709.4912.139.camel@erato.phig.org> On Fri, 2003-10-31 at 02:48, Carlos Hergueta wrote: > Hi Andreu, > > I'm also from Spain, and I asked the same question some weeks ago. I > have no answer, but maybe what we should do is to identify some > interesting documents and see if they are translated to spanish, if they > are not then tell the documentation lider that we are going to start the > translation. > > It would be nice if one of those liders could tell us about the > mechanisn. This is where I think we are at, based on what has been said on this list: 1) Yes, Fedora Project needs translators, and I would guess that more than one from the same language is a good thing. 2) There is no procedure yet for doing translations, especially as teams. I would recommend working on separate pieces and swapping for editing, but the Red Hat docs translation team may have some good procedures we can borrow. 3) The RH docs translation team has been nose to the papyrus for weeks getting the docs for RHEL 3 out the door, so they haven't had a chance to respond to our questions. That about sums it up. Hopefully we can start getting more input from the docs translation team soon. - Karsten > > Regards, > > > > > El vie, 31-10-2003 a las 09:26, Andreu Sanchez escribi?: > > Hi, > > > > I'm new to the list so i must say "hi to the list members" first. > > > > I'm a system administrator from spain, exactly from Catalunya, using > > redhat for the last 5 years and i would like to help translation fedora > > to spanish. I don't know if there's a project or any other person who > > started translating, so i would want to know where i have to start. > > > > Regards, > > > -- > fedora-docs-list mailing list > fedora-docs-list at redhat.com > http://www.redhat.com/mailman/listinfo/fedora-docs-list -- Karsten Wade : Tech Writer, RHCE : o: +1.831.466.9664 kwade at redhat.com : http://rhea.redhat.com/ : c: +1.831.818.9995 Red Hat Enterprise Applications : WAF, CMS, Portal Server -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- From tfox at redhat.com Fri Oct 31 22:09:15 2003 From: tfox at redhat.com (Tammy Fox) Date: Fri, 31 Oct 2003 17:09:15 -0500 Subject: Legal Notice in German In-Reply-To: <20031030160711.GB28075@redhat.com> References: <200310301217.h9UCHOYW015098@webmailer.hosteurope.de> <20031030160711.GB28075@redhat.com> Message-ID: <20031031220914.GE583@redhat.com> On Thu, Oct 30, 2003 at 11:07:12AM -0500, Tammy Fox wrote: > On Thu, Oct 30, 2003 at 07:44:59AM -0500, Edward C. Bailey wrote: > > >>>>> "christian" == christian huegel writes: > > > > christian> Hi, i wanted to ask if there is an translation already aviable > > christian> for the legalnotice.html file before i start to translate > > christian> it..... > > > > I'm not the Docs project leader (so I can't say for sure) but I don't think > > there is a German translation for it. > > > > No. No one has submitted any translations of the Fedora docs yet. > > > However, you should be aware that translating legal content is not the same > > as translating non-legal content. From a legal standpoint, unless the > > translation has been done by someone with both the necessary language and > > legal skills, the translation has no legal status. And this does not even > > address the fact that the legal aspects of the content may need to be > > changed to reflect the laws of the country or countries where the > > translated content will be read. > > > > In the past, we have take the approach that the original English legal > > content can be translated, but the following things must be done: > > > > o A notice must precede the translated legal content stating that the > > translation is for the readers' convenience only, and that only the > > original English version has any legal standing > > > > o The original English legal content must remain intact > > > > I will leave it to the Docs project leader to decide what is best to do > > here, but I wanted to make you aware of the issues surrounding the > > translation of legal content... > > > > Ed > > Ed's comments seem like a reasonable approach. I'll check with our > legal department to confirm. > > Tammy > The legal notice page can be translated, but a statement that the translation is provided for convenience only and that the English language version takes precedence must be on the top of the page. Tammy From hecchan at diazcalvo.com Sat Oct 18 16:54:34 2003 From: hecchan at diazcalvo.com (hector) Date: Sat, 18 Oct 2003 17:54:34 +0100 Subject: Loving Fedora Message-ID: <3F91704A.7050107@diazcalvo.com> Hi there, just installed fedora looking for ACPI support to power off my computer. Got it with little work but also really surprised with the core system. It's run much faster in my machine than rh9 and feel the graphics look better. Well, i'm a newbie buy i'm here to learn. I'm gonna start with the documentation guide and try emacs. I'd like to help with the documentation. I need some time but hope soon can help with translations (to spanish). The redhat-config-package can't read the cdrom, does someone knows about it? Enjoy fedora hector