From kwade at redhat.com Thu Jun 3 20:03:57 2004 From: kwade at redhat.com (Karsten Wade) Date: Thu, 03 Jun 2004 13:03:57 -0700 Subject: Hello, my name is Dugong. In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <1086293036.3169.54.camel@erato.phig.org> On Thu, 2004-05-27 at 16:16, Kyeong-woo Yi wrote: > Hello, fedora-docs-list's manager. > > I forget password, and you receive my password to me. > You can have your password emailed to the subscribed account by going to this page: > http://www.redhat.com/mailman/listinfo/fedora-docs-list At the bottom of the page, put in your email address next to the button that has "Unsubscribe or edit options" on it, then click on the button. The next page has three things you can do, and the third (last) one is "Password reminder". Clicking on that button will send an email with your password. hth - Karsten -- Karsten Wade, RHCE, Tech Writer this .signature subject to random changes http://people.redhat.com/kwade/ gpg fingerprint: 2680 DBFD D968 3141 0115 5F1B D992 0E06 AD0E 0C41 From kwade at redhat.com Thu Jun 3 20:07:33 2004 From: kwade at redhat.com (Karsten Wade) Date: Thu, 03 Jun 2004 13:07:33 -0700 Subject: Volunteer / Would like to participate In-Reply-To: <1085733257.13862.25.camel@obelix.natif.net> References: <1085733257.13862.25.camel@obelix.natif.net> Message-ID: <1086293253.3169.59.camel@erato.phig.org> On Fri, 2004-05-28 at 01:34, Marc Bruggeman wrote: > To the Fedora Documentation Project maintainer (Tammy Fox), > > I have been using and experimenting with Linux over the past 5 years. > Mostly Red Hat distributions (from 6.0 onwards I have used them all, > exept 8.0) but also tried out Debian, Mandrake and Slackware on several > occasions. As I am a telecomm professional my interest was more in how > to set up the different protocols and configure the system(s) and try to > figure out why things were/are done in such or such a way. > In my professional career I have also written lots of technical > documents and presentations and project reports in several languages > (Dutch, English, French). > Lately, I feel I would like to contribute in a way to the whole Open > Software movement and because I feel most comfortable using the redhat > distributions and now Fedora, I would like to volunteer to work on the > documentation project. > > I am on Fedora Core 2 right now, have downloaded the documentation files > via CVS and am reading trough the guidelines and Emacs tutorials. I must > admit that so far, I have not yet really used Emacs and the other > mentioned tools, but hey, that will give me a new challenge and a reason > to learn something new. > > Please let me know if I can be of any help to this project, or if you > would need more specific info, do not hesitate to contact me ! Speaking just as a project member, I would say, Yes!, we need more help. Right now we need: * Writers of new documents, especially those who can understand the tools * Helpers, who can assist non-DocBook users in getting documents in the proper format After we have some more submissions, we will need editors, and one day, translators. As for what can you write about? The question comes back to you, what are you interested in? Tell us, we'd like to talk about it. When you have something, submit it to the list. Look for collaborators. See if your idea is being worked on in another way. Welcome! - Karsten -- Karsten Wade, RHCE, Tech Writer this .signature subject to random changes http://people.redhat.com/kwade/ gpg fingerprint: 2680 DBFD D968 3141 0115 5F1B D992 0E06 AD0E 0C41 From kwade at redhat.com Thu Jun 3 20:15:24 2004 From: kwade at redhat.com (Karsten Wade) Date: Thu, 03 Jun 2004 13:15:24 -0700 Subject: Volunteer / Would like to participate In-Reply-To: <1085769432.4679.8.camel@localhost.localdomain> References: <1085733257.13862.25.camel@obelix.natif.net> <1085769432.4679.8.camel@localhost.localdomain> Message-ID: <1086293723.3169.68.camel@erato.phig.org> On Fri, 2004-05-28 at 11:37, Eddahbi Karim wrote: > Le ven 28/05/2004 ? 10:34, Marc Bruggeman a ?crit : > > To the Fedora Documentation Project maintainer (Tammy Fox), > > > > I have been using and experimenting with Linux over the past 5 years. > > Mostly Red Hat distributions (from 6.0 onwards I have used them all, > > exept 8.0) but also tried out Debian, Mandrake and Slackware on several > > occasions. As I am a telecomm professional my interest was more in how > > to set up the different protocols and configure the system(s) and try to > > figure out why things were/are done in such or such a way. > > You'll have to precise what skills are needed for this type of job. > Is there any documentation to read before entering in this type of > project. > What are the tools that will help the project. > Do these tools exist in the RPM Database ? :P Are you looking for something other than these? http://fedora.redhat.com/projects/docs/ http://fedora.redhat.com/participate/documentation-guide/ > > I want to build a documentation center based on documentations which are > easy to use and read, and easy to understand so I'm interested by this > project because, if you know how things are done, it's easier to explain > how they work. Fedora documentation is more immature than, for example, Debian documentation. We are starting from scratch with tutorials and HOWTOs. First we need to write the documentation. This is what is needed right now. Using the Fedora docs project tools is more difficult than other methods, such as those used by fedoranews.org. This has hurt us in terms of getting more community writers using the tools and contributing. Still, it's the "right thing" to use a scalable solution such as DocBook from the start, no matter the difficulty. Aside from the document that I wrote and maintain, I want to help facilitate getting everyone else's documents written. There are many people on this list willing to help even the newest writer get their tutorial or HOWTO ready for Fedora docs. hth - Karsten -- Karsten Wade, RHCE, Tech Writer this .signature subject to random changes http://people.redhat.com/kwade/ gpg fingerprint: 2680 DBFD D968 3141 0115 5F1B D992 0E06 AD0E 0C41 From Tommy.Reynolds at MegaCoder.com Thu Jun 3 21:29:24 2004 From: Tommy.Reynolds at MegaCoder.com (Tommy Reynolds) Date: Thu, 3 Jun 2004 16:29:24 -0500 Subject: xmlto making too-narrow PDF files Message-ID: <20040603162924.331b57be.Tommy.Reynolds@MegaCoder.com> Hi! I've downloaded the CVS fedora-docs/example-tutorial. When I # make pdf the header and footer rules on the resulting USLetter pages extend only about half way across. For grins, I also added a
and it, too, extends only half way across. Any ideas? The fop tool renders this correctly using exactly the same XSL and XML files. Cheers! -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 189 bytes Desc: not available URL: From noriko at redhat.com Fri Jun 4 06:15:39 2004 From: noriko at redhat.com (Noriko Mizumoto) Date: 04 Jun 2004 16:15:39 +1000 Subject: ISA/Printer Message-ID: <1086329739.2448.135.camel@localhost.localdomain> Hi all, Actually I'm stuck in the following translation. I have gone through several times, checked several dictionaries but can not still understand the situation. Could anyone please help me. Thanks in advance. Noriko #30 The stock (or thickness) of paper is also important, as some printers have a paper path that is not **straight**. The use of paper that is too thin or too thick can result in jams. Paper path which is not straight? #81 Depending on the type of laser printer deployed, consumable costs usually are fixed and scale evenly with increased usage or print job volume over time. Sorry, can you rephrase this for my better understanding? #86 Because they are relegated to **niche uses**, their prices (both **one-time** and recurring consumables costs) tend to be higher relative to more mainstream units. What is **niche uses**? My dicitionary says **one-time** means some kind of "be former", is this right? Actually **one-time** has been used several times. #104 This work-flow makes printing documents of any complexity **uniform** and standard, resulting in little or no variation in **printing from one printer to the next**. Can you give me clear vision? #110 More recent departmental printers include built-in or add-on network interfaces that **eliminate the need for a dedicated print server**. Is that means "that resolve the need for a dedicated print server"? From Tommy.Reynolds at MegaCoder.com Fri Jun 4 06:56:07 2004 From: Tommy.Reynolds at MegaCoder.com (Tommy Reynolds) Date: Fri, 4 Jun 2004 01:56:07 -0500 Subject: ISA/Printer In-Reply-To: <1086329739.2448.135.camel@localhost.localdomain> References: <1086329739.2448.135.camel@localhost.localdomain> Message-ID: <20040604015607.31adae16.Tommy.Reynolds@MegaCoder.com> Uttered Noriko Mizumoto , spake thus: > #30 > The stock (or thickness) of paper is also > important, as some printers have a paper path that is not **straight**. > The use of paper that is too thin or too thick can result in jams. Some printers do not keep the paper flat while it is printing. The paper does not move through the printer in a straight motion. The paper path through the printer is curved. Very thick or very thin paper may not follow the twisty path through the printer and may get crunched and stuck within the machine. > #81 > Depending on the type of laser printer deployed, consumable costs > usually are fixed and scale evenly with increased usage or print job > volume over time. For most printers, the cost of paper, ink and toner is a linear function of how many pages are printed. No matter how many pages you print, the cost for each page remains about the same. Some printers have very expensive parts that must be replaced now and then. This is in addition to the cost of the paper, ink and toner. > #86 > Because they are relegated to **niche uses**, their prices (both > **one-time** and recurring consumables costs) tend to be higher relative > to more mainstream units. A "niche" is a very small space or container. A "niche use" means "for a special purpose, not widely used". > #104 > This work-flow makes printing documents of any complexity **uniform** > and standard, resulting in little or no variation in **printing from one > printer to the next**. The printed pages look the same even if you print it on different printers. > #110 > More recent departmental printers include built-in or add-on network > interfaces that **eliminate the need for a dedicated print server**. Some printers can be connected directly to your corporate network. Other printers must be connected to a computer connected to your network. Hope this helps. -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 189 bytes Desc: not available URL: From noriko at redhat.com Fri Jun 4 10:03:21 2004 From: noriko at redhat.com (Noriko Mizumoto) Date: 04 Jun 2004 20:03:21 +1000 Subject: Please ignore / Re: ISA/Printer In-Reply-To: <20040604015607.31adae16.Tommy.Reynolds@MegaCoder.com> References: <1086329739.2448.135.camel@localhost.localdomain> <20040604015607.31adae16.Tommy.Reynolds@MegaCoder.com> Message-ID: <1086343400.1366.3.camel@localhost.localdomain> I am terribly sorry, the message sent wrong place. I appologize for interupting you. Please ignore the message. Kind regards. Noriko > Hi all, > > Actually I'm stuck in the following translation. > I have gone through several times, checked several dictionaries but can > not still understand the situation. > Could anyone please help me. > From kwade at redhat.com Mon Jun 7 21:02:12 2004 From: kwade at redhat.com (Karsten Wade) Date: Mon, 07 Jun 2004 14:02:12 -0700 Subject: collaborating with FedoraNEWS.ORG Message-ID: <1086642131.3169.10167.camel@erato.phig.org> There are a few FedoraNEWS.ORG contributors on this list, and I've been considering a few notions I'd like to discuss with this whole group of writers, to see what develops. I want to acknowledge that FedoraNEWS.ORG has been doing a great service to the Fedora community. The accuracy, timeliness, and usefulness of the articles is great. I've personally used several tutorials to accomplish new things with Fedora Core, such as setting up a yum repository. It seems that the niche FedoraNEWS.ORG documentation and the Fedora docs project (FDP) fill are not the same. I think the two groups (ideally) provide different and useful services to Fedora users. I see the FedoraNEWS.ORG articles as generally being timely, short, and focused on solving single problems. These articles are responsive and useful during test periods. Over the longterm, there may be less attraction in maintaining much of the docs because the problems they solve are no longer problems. I see the Fedora docs project as providing longer, broader documents that focus on multiple aspects of using Fedora Core or are more complex in their handling. There is room to grow into sizable books. Normally, the majority of the content in an FDP guide shouldn't change very much from Fedora Core release to release, typically just details of command usage and so forth. Even if you accept my definitions as entirely true, there is still plenty of room for crossover, and it was exactly that fact I have in mind. I'm wondering about the possibility of converting some of the longer FedoraNEWS.ORG articles/tutorials into formal FDP guides. I would envision something like this: 1. Identify FedoraNEWS.ORG tutorials which have momentum and scope to be maintainable for the long term. 2. The author(s) either convert the content to FDP standard DocBook, or enlist the help of other FDP contributors to convert. Once in DocBook, this is maintainable as the single source for all target systems, hopefully including FedoraNEWS.ORG. 3. Either the original author can continue maintaining, take on a joint maintainer from existing FDP writers, or hand over maintenance if there is someone interested in taking it on. It might be possible to stitch together several FedoraNEWS.ORG articles into one guide, for example a Fedora Yum Guide that includes how to configure and use yum, how to set up a repository, solutions for common problems, customizations, etc. These could easily be rendered for FDP as one guide, and for FedoraNEWS.ORG as a series of short articles. Single source, multiple audiences. One of my goals is clear - to increase the quantity and usefulness of the FDP guides. Hopefully there is something useful in here for the FedoraNEWS.ORG contributors. I'm usually hanging out at #fedora-docs on irc.freenode.net, or can come over to #fedoranews.org for discussion. I know licensing is one thing to cover; fortunately, a copyright holder can dual-license, so that is a solution. So far, FDP docs are under the GNU FDL 1.2+ (e.g. http://fedora.redhat.com/participate/documentation-guide/ln-legalnotice.html). Since the CC license used by FedoraNEWS.ORG allows it (http://creativecommons.org/licenses/by-nc-sa/1.0/), anyone could make a derivative work from FedoraNEWS.ORG articles, but it seems like a better idea to collaborate and single-source. Just out here doing too much thinking ... - Karsten -- Karsten Wade, RHCE, Tech Writer this .signature subject to random changes http://people.redhat.com/kwade/ gpg fingerprint: 2680 DBFD D968 3141 0115 5F1B D992 0E06 AD0E 0C41 From gavin.henry at magicfx.co.uk Mon Jun 7 21:54:32 2004 From: gavin.henry at magicfx.co.uk (Gavin Henry) Date: Mon, 7 Jun 2004 22:54:32 +0100 Subject: collaborating with FedoraNEWS.ORG In-Reply-To: <1086642131.3169.10167.camel@erato.phig.org> References: <1086642131.3169.10167.camel@erato.phig.org> Message-ID: <200406072254.35865.gavin.henry@magicfx.co.uk> -----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- Hash: SHA1 On Monday 07 Jun 2004 22:02, Karsten Wade wrote: > There are a few FedoraNEWS.ORG contributors on this list, and I've been > considering a few notions I'd like to discuss with this whole group of > writers, to see what develops. We're here... > > I want to acknowledge that FedoraNEWS.ORG has been doing a great service > to the Fedora community. The accuracy, timeliness, and usefulness of > the articles is great. I've personally used several tutorials to > accomplish new things with Fedora Core, such as setting up a yum > repository. Thank you. We try. I don't know how many of us are subscribers here. > It seems that the niche FedoraNEWS.ORG documentation and the Fedora docs > project (FDP) fill are not the same. I think the two groups (ideally) > provide different and useful services to Fedora users. Agreed. > > I see the FedoraNEWS.ORG articles as generally being timely, short, and > focused on solving single problems. These articles are responsive and > useful during test periods. Over the longterm, there may be less > attraction in maintaining much of the docs because the problems they > solve are no longer problems. Yes, My apt test1 howto was hits thousands of times, but is no longer valid. > > I see the Fedora docs project as providing longer, broader documents > that focus on multiple aspects of using Fedora Core or are more complex > in their handling. There is room to grow into sizable books. Normally, > the majority of the content in an FDP guide shouldn't change very much > from Fedora Core release to release, typically just details of command > usage and so forth. More like manuals. > > Even if you accept my definitions as entirely true, there is still > plenty of room for crossover, and it was exactly that fact I have in > mind. > > I'm wondering about the possibility of converting some of the longer > FedoraNEWS.ORG articles/tutorials into formal FDP guides. I would > envision something like this: > > 1. Identify FedoraNEWS.ORG tutorials which have momentum and scope to be > maintainable for the long term. There are a few I would like to do, I have a list of about 20 or so, but what with my son just arriving... > > 2. The author(s) either convert the content to FDP standard DocBook, or > enlist the help of other FDP contributors to convert. Once in DocBook, > this is maintainable as the single source for all target systems, > hopefully including FedoraNEWS.ORG. Not hard. I agree with docbook for long term docs, but for short docs/howtos it can be a pain. We would need to write our own css/xslt to keep it within the FedoraNEW.ORG look/style also. I bought a "Learning XML" O'reilly book for christmas (6 months ago) and most of the requirements are in there. Again, just the time. > > 3. Either the original author can continue maintaining, take on a joint > maintainer from existing FDP writers, or hand over maintenance if there > is someone interested in taking it on. The bigger ones would benefit from a joint effort. > > It might be possible to stitch together several FedoraNEWS.ORG articles > into one guide, for example a Fedora Yum Guide that includes how to > configure and use yum, how to set up a repository, solutions for common > problems, customizations, etc. These could easily be rendered for FDP > as one guide, and for FedoraNEWS.ORG as a series of short articles. > Single source, multiple audiences. Yes. I also think Alex's RPM is brilliant, and the tips section too. > > One of my goals is clear - to increase the quantity and usefulness of > the FDP guides. Hopefully there is something useful in here for the > FedoraNEWS.ORG contributors. I agree, and I will do as much as I can. > > I'm usually hanging out at #fedora-docs on irc.freenode.net, or can come > over to #fedoranews.org for discussion. I know licensing is one thing > to cover; fortunately, a copyright holder can dual-license, so that is a > solution. So far, FDP docs are under the GNU FDL 1.2+ (e.g. > http://fedora.redhat.com/participate/documentation-guide/ln-legalnotice.htm >l). Since the CC license used by FedoraNEWS.ORG allows it > (http://creativecommons.org/licenses/by-nc-sa/1.0/), anyone could make a > derivative work from FedoraNEWS.ORG articles, but it seems like a better > idea to collaborate and single-source. Again, agreed. I hope I speak for the rest of the writers. - -- Kind Regards, Gavin Henry. http://www.magicfx.co.uk http://FedoraNEWS.ORG/ghenry http://shorl.com/dokypyrirypa http://www.suretecsystems.com -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: GnuPG v1.2.4 (GNU/Linux) iD8DBQFAxOQbgNqd7Kng8UoRAvyyAJ4hQtbN4cUrmQ/TvcmHzNr/VTAqoQCdG3la egVBaOLVaOD1DugBoGXHNm0= =hMln -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- From rahulsundaram at yahoo.co.in Mon Jun 7 22:17:21 2004 From: rahulsundaram at yahoo.co.in (=?iso-8859-1?q?Rahul=20Sundaram?=) Date: Mon, 7 Jun 2004 23:17:21 +0100 (BST) Subject: collaborating with FedoraNEWS.ORG In-Reply-To: <1086642131.3169.10167.camel@erato.phig.org> Message-ID: <20040607221721.28231.qmail@web8007.mail.in.yahoo.com> Hi Is there a possibility to just write the content and submit it instead of doing it in docbook itself? regards rahul ________________________________________________________________________ Yahoo! India Matrimony: Find your partner online. http://yahoo.shaadi.com/india-matrimony/ From installation_fault_association at yahoo.fr Mon Jun 7 23:12:42 2004 From: installation_fault_association at yahoo.fr (Eddahbi Karim) Date: Tue, 08 Jun 2004 01:12:42 +0200 Subject: collaborating with FedoraNEWS.ORG In-Reply-To: <20040607221721.28231.qmail@web8007.mail.in.yahoo.com> References: <20040607221721.28231.qmail@web8007.mail.in.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <1086649962.2885.12.camel@localhost.localdomain> Maybe a tool that can facilitate the creation of a XMLized documentation could be useful. For example, the documentation would be written with a "Wiki" syntax, then "the tool" will translate this syntax into XML ("Dotclear" do it in a 2-steps way but it ends with XHTML not XML). That's just an idea :), Karim. -- Eddahbi Karim From kwade at redhat.com Tue Jun 8 00:15:28 2004 From: kwade at redhat.com (Karsten Wade) Date: Mon, 07 Jun 2004 17:15:28 -0700 Subject: collaborating with FedoraNEWS.ORG In-Reply-To: <20040607221721.28231.qmail@web8007.mail.in.yahoo.com> References: <20040607221721.28231.qmail@web8007.mail.in.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <1086653727.3169.10188.camel@erato.phig.org> On Mon, 2004-06-07 at 15:17, Rahul Sundaram wrote: > Hi > > Is there a possibility to just write the content and > submit it instead of doing it in docbook itself? There have been offers here to help with XML generation. There are tools to convert from just about any format, even if it takes multiple steps such as .doc -> .txt -> .xml. This page has several good ones: http://wiki.docbook.org/topic/ConvertOtherFormatsToDocBook Ones I have used: http://www.methods.co.nz/asciidoc/ http://txt2docbook.sourceforge.net/ http://www.cise.ufl.edu/~ppadala/tidy/ The last one does a nice job of converting (X)HTML to XML, except for nasty tables. If someone writes a seriously good HOWTO or tutorial and submits it as material, there is a good chance someone else will jump in to help convert. This will work for now. - Karsten -- Karsten Wade, RHCE, Tech Writer this .signature subject to random changes http://people.redhat.com/kwade/ gpg fingerprint: 2680 DBFD D968 3141 0115 5F1B D992 0E06 AD0E 0C41 From paul at frields.com Tue Jun 8 12:41:51 2004 From: paul at frields.com (Paul W. Frields) Date: Tue, 08 Jun 2004 08:41:51 -0400 Subject: collaborating with FedoraNEWS.ORG In-Reply-To: <1086653727.3169.10188.camel@erato.phig.org> References: <20040607221721.28231.qmail@web8007.mail.in.yahoo.com> <1086653727.3169.10188.camel@erato.phig.org> Message-ID: <1086698511.2524.2.camel@london.east.gov> On Mon, 2004-06-07 at 20:15, Karsten Wade wrote: > On Mon, 2004-06-07 at 15:17, Rahul Sundaram wrote: > > Is there a possibility to just write the content and > > submit it instead of doing it in docbook itself? > > There have been offers here to help with XML generation. There are > tools to convert from just about any format, even if it takes multiple > steps such as .doc -> .txt -> .xml. [...snip...] > If someone writes a seriously good HOWTO or tutorial and submits it as > material, there is a good chance someone else will jump in to help > convert. This will work for now. I've made the offer before, and I'll gladly make it again. I did this for the recent clamav tutorial, but didn't hear back from anyone. (I hadn't made any real editorial decisions, just did the tagging in Emacs+psgml.) Like everyone here, I have "another" job as well as family, but I think no one expects a same-day turnaround for most of these projects. We can do it -- rah, team! -- Paul W. Frields, RHCE From dpawson at nildram.co.uk Tue Jun 8 18:09:23 2004 From: dpawson at nildram.co.uk (Dave Pawson) Date: Tue, 08 Jun 2004 19:09:23 +0100 Subject: collaborating with FedoraNEWS.ORG In-Reply-To: <200406072254.35865.gavin.henry@magicfx.co.uk> References: <1086642131.3169.10167.camel@erato.phig.org> <200406072254.35865.gavin.henry@magicfx.co.uk> Message-ID: <6.1.0.6.2.20040608190818.0296f948@pop3.nildram.co.uk> At 22:54 07/06/2004, Gavin Henry wrote: >-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- >Hash: SHA1 > >On Monday 07 Jun 2004 22:02, Karsten Wade wrote: > > There are a few FedoraNEWS.ORG contributors on this list, and I've been > > considering a few notions I'd like to discuss with this whole group of > > writers, to see what develops. > >We're here... What format are the news articles in please? Is there a format that might keep both groups happy? Can we convert from one to the other with minimal fuss? regards DaveP From dpawson at nildram.co.uk Tue Jun 8 18:13:04 2004 From: dpawson at nildram.co.uk (Dave Pawson) Date: Tue, 08 Jun 2004 19:13:04 +0100 Subject: collaborating with FedoraNEWS.ORG In-Reply-To: <1086653727.3169.10188.camel@erato.phig.org> References: <20040607221721.28231.qmail@web8007.mail.in.yahoo.com> <1086653727.3169.10188.camel@erato.phig.org> Message-ID: <6.1.0.6.2.20040608190952.034d45f0@pop3.nildram.co.uk> At 01:15 08/06/2004, Karsten Wade wrote: >On Mon, 2004-06-07 at 15:17, Rahul Sundaram wrote: > > Hi > > > > Is there a possibility to just write the content and > > submit it instead of doing it in docbook itself? > >There have been offers here to help with XML generation. There are >tools to convert from just about any format, even if it takes multiple >steps such as .doc -> .txt -> .xml. I can do .doc to docbook no problem. My most recent find is apt? Pretty simple text format, java prog to convert to docbook. I was amazed. http://www.xmlmind.com/xmleditor/_distrib/docs/apt/ regards DaveP From kwade at redhat.com Tue Jun 8 18:17:57 2004 From: kwade at redhat.com (Karsten Wade) Date: Tue, 08 Jun 2004 11:17:57 -0700 Subject: collaborating with FedoraNEWS.ORG In-Reply-To: <6.1.0.6.2.20040608190952.034d45f0@pop3.nildram.co.uk> References: <20040607221721.28231.qmail@web8007.mail.in.yahoo.com> <1086653727.3169.10188.camel@erato.phig.org> <6.1.0.6.2.20040608190952.034d45f0@pop3.nildram.co.uk> Message-ID: <1086718677.3169.10211.camel@erato.phig.org> On Tue, 2004-06-08 at 11:13, Dave Pawson wrote: > At 01:15 08/06/2004, Karsten Wade wrote: > >On Mon, 2004-06-07 at 15:17, Rahul Sundaram wrote: > > > Hi > > > > > > Is there a possibility to just write the content and > > > submit it instead of doing it in docbook itself? > My most recent find is apt? > > Pretty simple text format, > java prog to convert to docbook. > > I was amazed. > http://www.xmlmind.com/xmleditor/_distrib/docs/apt/ Perfect example. If someone authored using the very easy APT syntax, it would be simple to convert it to basic DocBook XML. At that point, it is a fun exercise to go through and convert all the tags to the proper choice (, , , , , etc.), as well as adding other missing tags. - Karsten -- Karsten Wade, RHCE, Tech Writer this .signature subject to random changes http://people.redhat.com/kwade/ gpg fingerprint: 2680 DBFD D968 3141 0115 5F1B D992 0E06 AD0E 0C41 From marc.bruggeman at pro.tiscali.be Tue Jun 8 19:57:20 2004 From: marc.bruggeman at pro.tiscali.be (Marc Bruggeman) Date: Tue, 08 Jun 2004 21:57:20 +0200 Subject: Volunteer / Would like to participate In-Reply-To: <1086293253.3169.59.camel@erato.phig.org> References: <1085733257.13862.25.camel@obelix.natif.net> <1086293253.3169.59.camel@erato.phig.org> Message-ID: <1086724640.7070.130.camel@obelix.natif.net> Karsten, My apologies for the somewhat late reply. I have been reading up on the materials and this list, as well as some others related to the Fedora project. I guess my best option for the moment is going through the phase of learning to use all these different tools, and start writing. When I get something finished, I will submit it here in the list. And to answer the question about what I could write about : I have been so far 'studying and experimenting' with IP networking, DHCP, DNS, NIS, NFS, SAMBA, NTP... I want to know more about configuring and using encryption and related tools. I am also trying to learn a bit more about (shell script) programming in a Linux environment (apart from learning how to use the documentation tools and programs). I will keep an eye on this list and get back as soon as I have something to present. Regards, Marc Marc On Thu, 2004-06-03 at 22:07, Karsten Wade wrote: > On Fri, 2004-05-28 at 01:34, Marc Bruggeman wrote: > > To the Fedora Documentation Project maintainer (Tammy Fox), > > > > I have been using and experimenting with Linux over the past 5 years. > > Mostly Red Hat distributions (from 6.0 onwards I have used them all, > > exept 8.0) but also tried out Debian, Mandrake and Slackware on several > > occasions. As I am a telecomm professional my interest was more in how > > to set up the different protocols and configure the system(s) and try to > > figure out why things were/are done in such or such a way. > > In my professional career I have also written lots of technical > > documents and presentations and project reports in several languages > > (Dutch, English, French). > > Lately, I feel I would like to contribute in a way to the whole Open > > Software movement and because I feel most comfortable using the redhat > > distributions and now Fedora, I would like to volunteer to work on the > > documentation project. > > > > I am on Fedora Core 2 right now, have downloaded the documentation files > > via CVS and am reading trough the guidelines and Emacs tutorials. I must > > admit that so far, I have not yet really used Emacs and the other > > mentioned tools, but hey, that will give me a new challenge and a reason > > to learn something new. > > > > Please let me know if I can be of any help to this project, or if you > > would need more specific info, do not hesitate to contact me ! > > Speaking just as a project member, I would say, Yes!, we need more > help. Right now we need: > > * Writers of new documents, especially those who can understand the > tools > * Helpers, who can assist non-DocBook users in getting documents in the > proper format > > After we have some more submissions, we will need editors, and one day, > translators. > > As for what can you write about? The question comes back to you, what > are you interested in? Tell us, we'd like to talk about it. When you > have something, submit it to the list. Look for collaborators. See if > your idea is being worked on in another way. > > Welcome! > > - Karsten > > -- > Karsten Wade, RHCE, Tech Writer > this .signature subject to random changes > http://people.redhat.com/kwade/ > gpg fingerprint: 2680 DBFD D968 3141 0115 5F1B D992 0E06 AD0E 0C41 > From mjohnson at redhat.com Tue Jun 8 20:19:56 2004 From: mjohnson at redhat.com (Mark Johnson) Date: Tue, 08 Jun 2004 16:19:56 -0400 Subject: Volunteer / Would like to participate In-Reply-To: <1086724640.7070.130.camel@obelix.natif.net> References: <1085733257.13862.25.camel@obelix.natif.net> <1086293253.3169.59.camel@erato.phig.org> <1086724640.7070.130.camel@obelix.natif.net> Message-ID: <40C61F6C.1080402@redhat.com> > Speaking just as a project member, I would say, Yes!, we need more > help. Right now we need: > > [...] > > * Helpers, who can assist non-DocBook users in getting documents in > the proper format. I could volunteer as a "Helper" who assists people in getting a working docbook authoring setup. Cheers, Mark -- ---------------------------------------------------------- Mark Johnson Red Hat Documentation Group Tel: 919.754.4151 Fax: 919.754.3708 GPG fp: DBEA FA3C C46A 70B5 F120 568B 89D5 4F61 C07D E242 From Tommy.Reynolds at MegaCoder.com Tue Jun 8 20:41:59 2004 From: Tommy.Reynolds at MegaCoder.com (Tommy Reynolds) Date: Tue, 8 Jun 2004 15:41:59 -0500 Subject: Volunteer / Would like to participate In-Reply-To: <40C61F6C.1080402@redhat.com> References: <1085733257.13862.25.camel@obelix.natif.net> <1086293253.3169.59.camel@erato.phig.org> <1086724640.7070.130.camel@obelix.natif.net> <40C61F6C.1080402@redhat.com> Message-ID: <20040608154159.14e04737.Tommy.Reynolds@MegaCoder.com> Uttered Mark Johnson , spake thus: > I could volunteer as a "Helper" who assists people in getting a working > docbook authoring setup. Could you start this by correcting the fedora-docs/example-tutorial? The current CVS content gives a very poor PDF rendering, with header/footer rules only half way across the page; and
output only spanning half the page. The HTML rendering seems OK enough for now, but monkeying with the setup trying to get even a semi-polished looking PDF is driving me nuts. I'd perfer to see "example-tutorial" contain the actual template that will be used for Fedora docs. Provide us with the boilerplate and we then DOCBOOK by example. HTH -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 189 bytes Desc: not available URL: From mjohnson at redhat.com Tue Jun 8 21:32:16 2004 From: mjohnson at redhat.com (Mark Johnson) Date: Tue, 08 Jun 2004 17:32:16 -0400 Subject: Volunteer / Would like to participate In-Reply-To: <20040608154159.14e04737.Tommy.Reynolds@MegaCoder.com> References: <1085733257.13862.25.camel@obelix.natif.net> <1086293253.3169.59.camel@erato.phig.org> <1086724640.7070.130.camel@obelix.natif.net> <40C61F6C.1080402@redhat.com> <20040608154159.14e04737.Tommy.Reynolds@MegaCoder.com> Message-ID: <40C63060.1090705@redhat.com> Tommy Reynolds wrote: > Uttered Mark Johnson , spake thus: > > >>I could volunteer as a "Helper" who assists people in getting a working >>docbook authoring setup. > > > Could you start this by correcting the fedora-docs/example-tutorial? > The current CVS content gives a very poor PDF rendering, This is a processing/stylesheet issue, rather than an authoring environment problem. I haven't even checked: is the pdf output generated from XSL or DSSSL stylesheets. If XSL, the fo -> pdf engine is likely passivetex or FOP. I dunno. Unfortunately, this toolchain is known to have some major deficiencies. I wish I had the time to work on the toolchain (esp the stylesheets), but I simply don't have the time now. Maybe in a few months. FWIW, I really enjoy working on the toolchain stuff, but I'm already overloaded. OTOH, I can get someone set up w/ Emacs & DocBook relatively quickly, as I've done it many times. Sorry I can't help w/ the pdf stuff right now. > I'd perfer to see "example-tutorial" contain the actual template that > will be used for Fedora docs. Provide us with the boilerplate and we > then DOCBOOK by example. I'll take a look at the "example-tutorial" and see if I can meaningfully contribute to a template. Cheers, Mark -- ---------------------------------------------------------- Mark Johnson Red Hat Documentation Group Tel: 919.754.4151 Fax: 919.754.3708 GPG fp: DBEA FA3C C46A 70B5 F120 568B 89D5 4F61 C07D E242 From marcos_mejia at caminf.com Tue Jun 8 21:39:46 2004 From: marcos_mejia at caminf.com (Marcos Mejia) Date: Tue, 8 Jun 2004 17:39:46 -0400 Subject: Problem with my cdrom Message-ID: <49FE938850DEFC4A95AF9B702D271B175C590B@vengador.cam.com> I have a LG cdrom/rewritable unit, when I insert a blank cd the file system cannot mount the unit. I want to know how to I can burn a cd. Thanks in advance. Marcos M. -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From hugofmesquita at yahoo.com Tue Jun 8 22:04:25 2004 From: hugofmesquita at yahoo.com (Hugo Fernando Mesquita) Date: Tue, 8 Jun 2004 17:04:25 -0500 Subject: Problem with my cdrom In-Reply-To: <49FE938850DEFC4A95AF9B702D271B175C590B@vengador.cam.com> Message-ID: <200406082218.i58MIiXn018533@mx3.redhat.com> Are you getting an error message? Do you have permission to mount the cd? Please, provide more information. Fernando, _____ From: fedora-docs-list-bounces at redhat.com [mailto:fedora-docs-list-bounces at redhat.com] On Behalf Of Marcos Mejia Sent: Tuesday, June 08, 2004 4:40 PM To: fedora-docs-list at redhat.com Subject: Problem with my cdrom I have a LG cdrom/rewritable unit, when I insert a blank cd the file system cannot mount the unit. I want to know how to I can burn a cd. Thanks in advance. Marcos M. -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From kwade at redhat.com Tue Jun 8 22:21:44 2004 From: kwade at redhat.com (Karsten Wade) Date: Tue, 08 Jun 2004 15:21:44 -0700 Subject: Volunteer / Would like to participate In-Reply-To: <20040608154159.14e04737.Tommy.Reynolds@MegaCoder.com> References: <1085733257.13862.25.camel@obelix.natif.net> <1086293253.3169.59.camel@erato.phig.org> <1086724640.7070.130.camel@obelix.natif.net> <40C61F6C.1080402@redhat.com> <20040608154159.14e04737.Tommy.Reynolds@MegaCoder.com> Message-ID: <1086733304.3169.10216.camel@erato.phig.org> On Tue, 2004-06-08 at 13:41, Tommy Reynolds wrote: > Uttered Mark Johnson , spake thus: > > > I could volunteer as a "Helper" who assists people in getting a working > > docbook authoring setup. > > Could you start this by correcting the fedora-docs/example-tutorial? > The current CVS content gives a very poor PDF rendering, with > header/footer rules only half way across the page; and
> output only spanning half the page. The HTML rendering seems OK enough > for now, but monkeying with the setup trying to get even a > semi-polished looking PDF is driving me nuts. > > I'd perfer to see "example-tutorial" contain the actual template that > will be used for Fedora docs. Provide us with the boilerplate and we > then DOCBOOK by example. I looked at this for a little bit after your email recently; nothing conclusive enough to write back about. Anyone who is interested in toolchain work, let's keep working on this. Are there other problems with the PDF output anyone has noticed? Other problems building PDFs? - Karsten -- Karsten Wade, RHCE, Tech Writer this .signature subject to random changes http://people.redhat.com/kwade/ gpg fingerprint: 2680 DBFD D968 3141 0115 5F1B D992 0E06 AD0E 0C41 From marcos_mejia at caminf.com Tue Jun 8 22:26:16 2004 From: marcos_mejia at caminf.com (Marcos Mejia) Date: Tue, 8 Jun 2004 18:26:16 -0400 Subject: Problem with my cdrom In-Reply-To: <49FE938850DEFC4A95AF9B702D271B1756F2BB@vengador.cam.com> Message-ID: <20040608182451.GA52069@mail19f.dulles19-verio.com> I have all permission, because I'm working with root passwd. When I insert a cd with data it is mounted automatically. _____ From: fedora-docs-list-bounces at redhat.com [mailto:fedora-docs-list-bounces at redhat.com] On Behalf Of Hugo Fernando Mesquita Sent: Tuesday, June 08, 2004 6:04 PM To: 'For participants of the docs project' Subject: RE: Problem with my cdrom Are you getting an error message? Do you have permission to mount the cd? Please, provide more information. Fernando, _____ From: fedora-docs-list-bounces at redhat.com [mailto:fedora-docs-list-bounces at redhat.com] On Behalf Of Marcos Mejia Sent: Tuesday, June 08, 2004 4:40 PM To: fedora-docs-list at redhat.com Subject: Problem with my cdrom I have a LG cdrom/rewritable unit, when I insert a blank cd the file system cannot mount the unit. I want to know how to I can burn a cd. Thanks in advance. Marcos M. -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From jfran at ie-engine.com Tue Jun 8 22:26:50 2004 From: jfran at ie-engine.com (John Franceschina) Date: Tue, 08 Jun 2004 18:26:50 -0400 Subject: Problem with my cdrom In-Reply-To: <200406082218.i58MIiXn018533@mx3.redhat.com> References: <200406082218.i58MIiXn018533@mx3.redhat.com> Message-ID: <1086733609.31744.30.camel@guru.ie-engine.net> You can't mount a blank cd there is nothing on it. you can burn data on it, then you can then mount and read from. you don't need to mount a cd to burn (write) to it. Make sure you have enough permissions to read-write-mount the drive though. if the blank cd is auto mounted when you put it in... make sure to unmount it before trying to burn to it (don't think this step is required but hey... I think I have had to do it in the past) PS: the mailing list you emailed is for documentation not general questions :-) Hope that helps John On Tue, 2004-06-08 at 18:04, Hugo Fernando Mesquita wrote: > Are you getting an error message? Do you have permission to mount the > cd? Please, provide more information. > > > > Fernando, > > > > > ______________________________________________________________________ > > From: fedora-docs-list-bounces at redhat.com > [mailto:fedora-docs-list-bounces at redhat.com] On Behalf Of Marcos Mejia > Sent: Tuesday, June 08, 2004 4:40 PM > To: fedora-docs-list at redhat.com > Subject: Problem with my cdrom > > > > > I have a LG cdrom/rewritable unit, when I insert a blank > cd the file system cannot mount the unit. I want to know how to I can > burn a cd. > > > > Thanks in advance. > > > > > > Marcos M. > > > > ______________________________________________________________________ > > -- > fedora-docs-list mailing list > fedora-docs-list at redhat.com > To unsubscribe: > http://www.redhat.com/mailman/listinfo/fedora-docs-list This email and any files transmitted with it are confidential and intended solely for the use of the individual or entity to whom they are addressed. If you have received this email in error please notify the system manager. This message contains confidential information and is intended only for the individual named. If you are not the named addressee you should not disseminate, distribute or copy this e-mail. -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: smiley-3.png Type: image/png Size: 819 bytes Desc: not available URL: From marcos_mejia at caminf.com Tue Jun 8 22:42:57 2004 From: marcos_mejia at caminf.com (Marcos Mejia) Date: Tue, 8 Jun 2004 18:42:57 -0400 Subject: Problem with my cdrom In-Reply-To: <49FE938850DEFC4A95AF9B702D271B1756F2C0@vengador.cam.com> Message-ID: <20040608184132.GA82960@mail19f.dulles19-verio.com> Fernando: I get this error message. Mount: wrong fs type, bad option, bad superblock on /dev/cdrom, or too many mounted file systems (could this be the IDE device where you in fact use ide-scsi so that sr0 or sda or so is needed?) thanks. _____ From: fedora-docs-list-bounces at redhat.com [mailto:fedora-docs-list-bounces at redhat.com] On Behalf Of Marcos Mejia Sent: Tuesday, June 08, 2004 6:26 PM To: 'For participants of the docs project' Subject: RE: Problem with my cdrom I have all permission, because I'm working with root passwd. When I insert a cd with data it is mounted automatically. _____ From: fedora-docs-list-bounces at redhat.com [mailto:fedora-docs-list-bounces at redhat.com] On Behalf Of Hugo Fernando Mesquita Sent: Tuesday, June 08, 2004 6:04 PM To: 'For participants of the docs project' Subject: RE: Problem with my cdrom Are you getting an error message? Do you have permission to mount the cd? Please, provide more information. Fernando, _____ From: fedora-docs-list-bounces at redhat.com [mailto:fedora-docs-list-bounces at redhat.com] On Behalf Of Marcos Mejia Sent: Tuesday, June 08, 2004 4:40 PM To: fedora-docs-list at redhat.com Subject: Problem with my cdrom I have a LG cdrom/rewritable unit, when I insert a blank cd the file system cannot mount the unit. I want to know how to I can burn a cd. Thanks in advance. Marcos M. -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From gavin.henry at magicfx.co.uk Wed Jun 9 16:26:58 2004 From: gavin.henry at magicfx.co.uk (Gavin Henry) Date: Wed, 9 Jun 2004 17:26:58 +0100 Subject: collaborating with FedoraNEWS.ORG In-Reply-To: <6.1.0.6.2.20040608190818.0296f948@pop3.nildram.co.uk> References: <1086642131.3169.10167.camel@erato.phig.org> <200406072254.35865.gavin.henry@magicfx.co.uk> <6.1.0.6.2.20040608190818.0296f948@pop3.nildram.co.uk> Message-ID: <200406091727.01884.gavin.henry@magicfx.co.uk> -----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- Hash: SHA1 On Tuesday 08 Jun 2004 19:09, Dave Pawson wrote: > At 22:54 07/06/2004, Gavin Henry wrote: > >-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- > >Hash: SHA1 > > > >On Monday 07 Jun 2004 22:02, Karsten Wade wrote: > > > There are a few FedoraNEWS.ORG contributors on this list, and I've been > > > considering a few notions I'd like to discuss with this whole group of > > > writers, to see what develops. > > > >We're here... > > What format are the news articles in please? We just write them in html. > > Is there a format that might keep both groups happy? > > Can we convert from one to the other with minimal fuss? > > regards DaveP - -- Kind Regards, Gavin Henry. http://www.magicfx.co.uk http://FedoraNEWS.ORG/ghenry http://shorl.com/dokypyrirypa http://www.suretecsystems.com -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: GnuPG v1.2.4 (GNU/Linux) iD8DBQFAxzpVgNqd7Kng8UoRAntcAKDGtK/vrBfxX01NxdWDvGUN6a6/nwCgtE1j Y+JnbrLfQpuPT2pnnMBY63g= =iSqQ -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- From gavin.henry at magicfx.co.uk Wed Jun 9 16:28:26 2004 From: gavin.henry at magicfx.co.uk (Gavin Henry) Date: Wed, 9 Jun 2004 17:28:26 +0100 Subject: collaborating with FedoraNEWS.ORG In-Reply-To: <6.1.0.6.2.20040608190952.034d45f0@pop3.nildram.co.uk> References: <20040607221721.28231.qmail@web8007.mail.in.yahoo.com> <1086653727.3169.10188.camel@erato.phig.org> <6.1.0.6.2.20040608190952.034d45f0@pop3.nildram.co.uk> Message-ID: <200406091728.28078.gavin.henry@magicfx.co.uk> -----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- Hash: SHA1 On Tuesday 08 Jun 2004 19:13, Dave Pawson wrote: > At 01:15 08/06/2004, Karsten Wade wrote: > >On Mon, 2004-06-07 at 15:17, Rahul Sundaram wrote: > > > Hi > > > > > > Is there a possibility to just write the content and > > > submit it instead of doing it in docbook itself? > > > >There have been offers here to help with XML generation. There are > >tools to convert from just about any format, even if it takes multiple > >steps such as .doc -> .txt -> .xml. > > I can do .doc to docbook no problem. What do you use for this? > My most recent find is apt? > > Pretty simple text format, > java prog to convert to docbook. > > I was amazed. > http://www.xmlmind.com/xmleditor/_distrib/docs/apt/ > > regards DaveP - -- Kind Regards, Gavin Henry. http://www.magicfx.co.uk http://FedoraNEWS.ORG/ghenry http://shorl.com/dokypyrirypa http://www.suretecsystems.com -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: GnuPG v1.2.4 (GNU/Linux) iD8DBQFAxzqqgNqd7Kng8UoRAjkPAJwNxY2BaK5PYmLv9UDDasnyQCjMwgCgiyYY v+PiRrTLm2q2i27w2BvKZKM= =DdSZ -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- From gavin.henry at magicfx.co.uk Wed Jun 9 16:29:19 2004 From: gavin.henry at magicfx.co.uk (Gavin Henry) Date: Wed, 9 Jun 2004 17:29:19 +0100 Subject: collaborating with FedoraNEWS.ORG In-Reply-To: <1086653727.3169.10188.camel@erato.phig.org> References: <20040607221721.28231.qmail@web8007.mail.in.yahoo.com> <1086653727.3169.10188.camel@erato.phig.org> Message-ID: <200406091729.20899.gavin.henry@magicfx.co.uk> -----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- Hash: SHA1 On Tuesday 08 Jun 2004 01:15, Karsten Wade wrote: > On Mon, 2004-06-07 at 15:17, Rahul Sundaram wrote: > > Hi > > > > Is there a possibility to just write the content and > > submit it instead of doing it in docbook itself? > > There have been offers here to help with XML generation. There are > tools to convert from just about any format, even if it takes multiple > steps such as .doc -> .txt -> .xml. I want to turn all my day jobs .docs to xml Is this easy enough? > > This page has several good ones: > > http://wiki.docbook.org/topic/ConvertOtherFormatsToDocBook > > Ones I have used: > > http://www.methods.co.nz/asciidoc/ > http://txt2docbook.sourceforge.net/ > http://www.cise.ufl.edu/~ppadala/tidy/ > > The last one does a nice job of converting (X)HTML to XML, except for > nasty tables. > > If someone writes a seriously good HOWTO or tutorial and submits it as > material, there is a good chance someone else will jump in to help > convert. This will work for now. > > - Karsten > -- > Karsten Wade, RHCE, Tech Writer > this .signature subject to random changes > http://people.redhat.com/kwade/ > gpg fingerprint: 2680 DBFD D968 3141 0115 5F1B D992 0E06 AD0E 0C41 - -- Kind Regards, Gavin Henry. http://www.magicfx.co.uk http://FedoraNEWS.ORG/ghenry http://shorl.com/dokypyrirypa http://www.suretecsystems.com -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: GnuPG v1.2.4 (GNU/Linux) iD8DBQFAxzrfgNqd7Kng8UoRAr5mAJ45AKXrmDqsTgx+BVTdBjX1H1WkVwCgmyAf Y5SkX7wzAxaf+zTh8UFZEKg= =yEXk -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- From dpawson at nildram.co.uk Wed Jun 9 17:59:36 2004 From: dpawson at nildram.co.uk (Dave Pawson) Date: Wed, 09 Jun 2004 18:59:36 +0100 Subject: collaborating with FedoraNEWS.ORG In-Reply-To: <200406091728.28078.gavin.henry@magicfx.co.uk> References: <20040607221721.28231.qmail@web8007.mail.in.yahoo.com> <1086653727.3169.10188.camel@erato.phig.org> <6.1.0.6.2.20040608190952.034d45f0@pop3.nildram.co.uk> <200406091728.28078.gavin.henry@magicfx.co.uk> Message-ID: <6.1.0.6.2.20040609185827.0288bbb8@pop3.nildram.co.uk> At 17:28 09/06/2004, Gavin Henry wrote: > > I can do .doc to docbook no problem. > >What do you use for this? For those poor types who insist, or can only write in MS word. I have a German tool that does a pretty good word to docbook conversion. regards daveP From dpawson at nildram.co.uk Wed Jun 9 18:00:32 2004 From: dpawson at nildram.co.uk (Dave Pawson) Date: Wed, 09 Jun 2004 19:00:32 +0100 Subject: collaborating with FedoraNEWS.ORG In-Reply-To: <200406091729.20899.gavin.henry@magicfx.co.uk> References: <20040607221721.28231.qmail@web8007.mail.in.yahoo.com> <1086653727.3169.10188.camel@erato.phig.org> <200406091729.20899.gavin.henry@magicfx.co.uk> Message-ID: <6.1.0.6.2.20040609190006.02883f40@pop3.nildram.co.uk> At 17:29 09/06/2004, you wrote: >-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- > >I want to turn all my day jobs .docs to xml > >Is this easy enough? Yes, then xml to whatever is not too hard. regards DaveP From dpawson at nildram.co.uk Wed Jun 9 18:02:58 2004 From: dpawson at nildram.co.uk (Dave Pawson) Date: Wed, 09 Jun 2004 19:02:58 +0100 Subject: collaborating with FedoraNEWS.ORG In-Reply-To: <200406091728.28078.gavin.henry@magicfx.co.uk> References: <20040607221721.28231.qmail@web8007.mail.in.yahoo.com> <1086653727.3169.10188.camel@erato.phig.org> <6.1.0.6.2.20040608190952.034d45f0@pop3.nildram.co.uk> <200406091728.28078.gavin.henry@magicfx.co.uk> Message-ID: <6.1.0.6.2.20040609190209.02888f50@pop3.nildram.co.uk> If you guys are writing in HTML, the apt format will be a breeze. How about giving it a try, just one document, then forward it to this list, We'll return it in docbook and HTML. How's that sound? regards DaveP From jos2k2 at hotmail.com Wed Jun 9 18:37:43 2004 From: jos2k2 at hotmail.com (jos preeker) Date: Wed, 09 Jun 2004 18:37:43 +0000 Subject: unsubscribe? Message-ID: I tried to unsubscribe a few times (click link on bottom of email, login and unsubscribe) and it said it'd send me a confirmation email. But it never did. Can anyone help me unsubscribe? _________________________________________________________________ Hotmail en Messenger on the move http://mobile.msn.com/?lc=nl-nl From kwade at redhat.com Wed Jun 9 20:08:28 2004 From: kwade at redhat.com (Karsten Wade) Date: Wed, 09 Jun 2004 13:08:28 -0700 Subject: collaborating with FedoraNEWS.ORG In-Reply-To: <200406091728.28078.gavin.henry@magicfx.co.uk> References: <20040607221721.28231.qmail@web8007.mail.in.yahoo.com> <1086653727.3169.10188.camel@erato.phig.org> <6.1.0.6.2.20040608190952.034d45f0@pop3.nildram.co.uk> <200406091728.28078.gavin.henry@magicfx.co.uk> Message-ID: <1086811707.3169.10271.camel@erato.phig.org> On Wed, 2004-06-09 at 09:28, Gavin Henry wrote: > > I can do .doc to docbook no problem. > > What do you use for this? I haven't seen Dave's tool, so I do it through a more difficult method. First, I evaluate the document. Hopefully it is light on tables. Next, I save as .txt and .html. Then I use a conversion tool on them (txt2docbook and/or asciidoc, html2db). Next, I go through the output looking for the best looking conversion. Sometimes it's worth excising tables from the HTML before conversion. Finally, I edit the XML to clean it up, fix tags (e.g., converting to other tags, etc.), and add tags. One day I expect someone will get the itch to have OpenOffice take care of the conversion, using XSLT to convert the XML. - Karsten -- Karsten Wade, RHCE, Tech Writer this .signature subject to random changes http://people.redhat.com/kwade/ gpg fingerprint: 2680 DBFD D968 3141 0115 5F1B D992 0E06 AD0E 0C41 From kwade at redhat.com Wed Jun 9 20:11:39 2004 From: kwade at redhat.com (Karsten Wade) Date: Wed, 09 Jun 2004 13:11:39 -0700 Subject: collaborating with FedoraNEWS.ORG In-Reply-To: <200406091727.01884.gavin.henry@magicfx.co.uk> References: <1086642131.3169.10167.camel@erato.phig.org> <200406072254.35865.gavin.henry@magicfx.co.uk> <6.1.0.6.2.20040608190818.0296f948@pop3.nildram.co.uk> <200406091727.01884.gavin.henry@magicfx.co.uk> Message-ID: <1086811898.3169.10274.camel@erato.phig.org> On Wed, 2004-06-09 at 09:26, Gavin Henry wrote: > > > > What format are the news articles in please? > > We just write them in html. That's good news for two reasons: 1. Easier for the writers to learn XML from HTML. 2. Easy to output HTML from single-source XML. It's a match! What are some possible articles or groups of articles we could convert? Are the author(s) interested in this? - Karsten -- Karsten Wade, RHCE, Tech Writer this .signature subject to random changes http://people.redhat.com/kwade/ gpg fingerprint: 2680 DBFD D968 3141 0115 5F1B D992 0E06 AD0E 0C41 From hoyt at cavtel.net Thu Jun 10 02:11:35 2004 From: hoyt at cavtel.net (Hoyt) Date: Wed, 9 Jun 2004 22:11:35 -0400 Subject: collaborating with FedoraNEWS.ORG In-Reply-To: <200406072254.35865.gavin.henry@magicfx.co.uk> References: <1086642131.3169.10167.camel@erato.phig.org> <200406072254.35865.gavin.henry@magicfx.co.uk> Message-ID: <200406092211.35026.hoyt@cavtel.net> On Monday 07 June 2004 05:54 pm, Gavin Henry wrote: > I hope I speak for the rest of the writers. Fine with me. I have a number of short items I'm working on that I can release under a Creative Commons license which should allow you folks to use the documents. I use these as a bare-bones precursor to what I do for the Fedora Unleashed book in order to enable me to do coherent research on a topic. I facing shoulder surgery next Monday, so the recovery period should allow me to get some writing done. Hoyt Duff From fiction at bigpond.net.au Fri Jun 11 11:00:21 2004 From: fiction at bigpond.net.au (Paul Thompson) Date: Fri, 11 Jun 2004 20:30:21 +0930 Subject: unsubscribe? In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <200406112030.22097.fiction@bigpond.net.au> On Thursday 10 June 2004 04:07, jos preeker wrote: > I tried to unsubscribe a few times (click link on bottom of email, login > and unsubscribe) and it said it'd send me a confirmation email. But it > never did. Can anyone help me unsubscribe? Once we've got you'll never get away. Hahahahahaha (Sorry, couldn't resist it.... Tux made me do it.) Paul From laurels at gmail.com Sat Jun 12 01:16:25 2004 From: laurels at gmail.com (Laurel) Date: Fri, 11 Jun 2004 18:16:25 -0700 Subject: New volunteer Message-ID: <1a90620b040611181637a00df7@mail.gmail.com> Hello, My name is Laurel Kline and I'm a technical writer, a markup language and production pro, and a Linux admin newbie. I've got my own set of Fedora Core 2 custimization goals I'm working on, and it's just as easy to doc it and screenshot it as I'm doing it. So are these topics of interest to users? Things I've figured out and done: - installing and setting up a firewall - installing and setting up Apache - serving multiple domains and aliases Things that are on my to-do list: - serving pages from my XP box via symlinks and a samba share - getting sendmail set up the way I want it - getting a cgi-bin set up and configured safely - getting SSL set up - getting PHP configured and set up with some of the cool PHP toys that are out there Since I'm coming from the newbie admin perspective, my stuff is likely to be more GUI-oriented with careful leading users in and out of the command line. Does any of this suit your needs? Laurel From dpawson at nildram.co.uk Sat Jun 12 11:52:15 2004 From: dpawson at nildram.co.uk (Dave Pawson) Date: Sat, 12 Jun 2004 12:52:15 +0100 Subject: New volunteer In-Reply-To: <1a90620b040611181637a00df7@mail.gmail.com> References: <1a90620b040611181637a00df7@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <6.1.0.6.2.20040612125117.03717720@pop3.nildram.co.uk> At 02:16 12/06/2004, Laurel wrote: >Hello, > >My name is Laurel Kline and I'm a technical writer, a markup language >and production pro, and a Linux admin newbie. Hi Laurel. Since no one else is answering, I'll say yes please to your suggestions. I'm guessing you've seen the guidelines? regards DaveP From laurels at gmail.com Sat Jun 12 19:42:19 2004 From: laurels at gmail.com (Laurel) Date: Sat, 12 Jun 2004 12:42:19 -0700 Subject: New volunteer In-Reply-To: <6.1.0.6.2.20040612125117.03717720@pop3.nildram.co.uk> References: <1a90620b040611181637a00df7@mail.gmail.com> <6.1.0.6.2.20040612125117.03717720@pop3.nildram.co.uk> Message-ID: <1a90620b04061212425e97a36@mail.gmail.com> Yep. I'll go ahead and get DocBook et al set up and check in again when/if I run into troubles . Hey, I just noticed that Karsten in in Santa Cruz like I am. Watch out Karsten! You may be doing tech support . Thanks! Laurel On Sat, 12 Jun 2004 12:52:15 +0100, Dave Pawson wrote: > > At 02:16 12/06/2004, Laurel wrote: > >Hello, > > > >My name is Laurel Kline and I'm a technical writer, a markup language > >and production pro, and a Linux admin newbie. > > Hi Laurel. Since no one else is answering, I'll say yes please > to your suggestions. > > I'm guessing you've seen the guidelines? > > regards DaveP > > > -- > fedora-docs-list mailing list > fedora-docs-list at redhat.com > To unsubscribe: > http://www.redhat.com/mailman/listinfo/fedora-docs-list > From kwade at redhat.com Sun Jun 13 06:52:38 2004 From: kwade at redhat.com (Karsten Wade) Date: Sat, 12 Jun 2004 23:52:38 -0700 Subject: New volunteer In-Reply-To: <1a90620b04061212425e97a36@mail.gmail.com> References: <1a90620b040611181637a00df7@mail.gmail.com> <6.1.0.6.2.20040612125117.03717720@pop3.nildram.co.uk> <1a90620b04061212425e97a36@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <1087109557.3837.16.camel@erato.phig.org> On Sat, 2004-06-12 at 12:42, Laurel wrote: > Yep. I'll go ahead and get DocBook et al set up and check in again > when/if I run into troubles . > > Hey, I just noticed that Karsten in in Santa Cruz like I am. Watch out > Karsten! You may be doing tech support . Oh, good ... we'll have to have a Fedora meet-up. We probably have friends in common; Helen Meservey, perhaps? In the meantime, I'm easier to find on #fedora-docs on irc.freenode.net, and am more than happy to tackle Fedora problems. Of the topics you listed as done or to-be-done, setting up a firewall in Fedora Core has been written about from this angle: http://www.redhat.com/archives/fedora-docs-list/2004-May/msg00040.html Just in case it covers the same topic(s). Your ideas are exactly the kind of documents that we need, helpful to users of all levels. Thanks - Karsten -- Karsten Wade, RHCE, Tech Writer this .signature subject to random changes http://people.redhat.com/kwade/ gpg fingerprint: 2680 DBFD D968 3141 0115 5F1B D992 0E06 AD0E 0C41 From redwire at therockmere.com Wed Jun 16 14:52:58 2004 From: redwire at therockmere.com (redwire at therockmere.com) Date: Wed, 16 Jun 2004 10:52:58 -0400 (EDT) Subject: New Volunteer Message-ID: <38035.199.224.21.254.1087397578.squirrel@TheRockmere.com> Hello All ! My name is Brad Smith. I am a DBA, Trainer and Linux Nut. I have been working on Linux for 3+ years and wandered into this thread because I've found the documentation for Fedora spotty. I started by looking for Fedora tutorials and HOWTO's, but am joining to learn DocBook skills and help write some tutorials I wish I'd found online. I have set Cygwin up on the WinBox at work and am finishing install of OpenJade on my own Server. Are there templates that I can grab from outside the CVS for the DTD and DocBook for the WinBox? I have DocBook-xsl-1.60.1 on it now. I am a newbie at CVS and DocBook creation so please bear with me if some of my question seem simplistic. Thanks, Brad From gavin.henry at magicfx.co.uk Wed Jun 16 19:42:38 2004 From: gavin.henry at magicfx.co.uk (Gavin Henry) Date: Wed, 16 Jun 2004 20:42:38 +0100 Subject: Fwd: [K12OSN] Samba/LDAP how-to in OO format Message-ID: <200406162042.41732.gavin.henry@magicfx.co.uk> -----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- Hash: SHA1 This has come from the K12OSN project and I have it now on: http://FedoraNEWS.ORG/ghenry/ldap It's waiting for me to finish tagging/cleaning it. Would someone like to Docbook it up for the docs project? I have permission to do what ever to it. I am also on the LDAP team for tldp.org but not really done much about it, but this is a very good one to go into it. I have these points which I sent to him: 1. The backend ldap should be bdb not ldbm (discussed very in depth on the OpenLDAP lists). 2. You should really have access controls on the LDAP database, as anyone can then read your hashed password over the wire, unless, which I didn't notice, you only have the LDAP server listening on localhost? 3. You should be using TLS. 4. Could you do a wee conclusion, rounding everything off. P.S. I just found this one on his site: http://www.vcs.u52.k12.me.us/LDAP/The_SAMBA-LDAP_How-to.html I don't know which is newer, but this one seems more complete. I'll check. Gavin. I think this comes from: http://samba.idealx.org/smbldap-howto.en.html - ---------- Forwarded Message ---------- Subject: [K12OSN] Samba/LDAP how-to in OO format Date: Wednesday 16 Jun 2004 03:28 From: "David Trask" To: K12OSN at redhat.com http://web.vcs.u52.k12.me.us/linux/Samba-LDAP.sxw here's the Samba LDAP how-to in OO format David N. Trask Technology Teacher/Coordinator Vassalboro Community School dtrask at vcs.u52.k12.me.us (207)923-3100 _______________________________________________ K12OSN mailing list K12OSN at redhat.com https://www.redhat.com/mailman/listinfo/k12osn For more info see - ------------------------------------------------------- - -- Kind Regards, Gavin Henry. Managing Director. T +44 (0) 1224 587369 M +44 (0) 7930 323266 F +44 (0) 1224 742001 E ghenry at suretecsystems.com Open Source. Open Solutions. http://www.suretecsystems.com/ -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: GnuPG v1.2.4 (GNU/Linux) iD8DBQFA0KKxgNqd7Kng8UoRArTHAKDcOAa52LJQGuaEDeRo1GyTHd2VwQCfdxO8 SCZNaH+RdbzGzGx8cPaLdJs= =6Ckx -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- From paul at frields.com Wed Jun 16 19:48:22 2004 From: paul at frields.com (Paul W. Frields) Date: Wed, 16 Jun 2004 15:48:22 -0400 Subject: Fwd: [K12OSN] Samba/LDAP how-to in OO format In-Reply-To: <200406162042.41732.gavin.henry@magicfx.co.uk> References: <200406162042.41732.gavin.henry@magicfx.co.uk> Message-ID: <1087415302.4409.24.camel@berlin.east.gov> I'll be happy to do it. If you don't mind, find out if he wants to make your changes first. On Wed, 2004-06-16 at 15:42, Gavin Henry wrote: > -----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- > Hash: SHA1 > > This has come from the K12OSN project and I have it now on: > > http://FedoraNEWS.ORG/ghenry/ldap > > It's waiting for me to finish tagging/cleaning it. > > Would someone like to Docbook it up for the docs project? I have permission to > do what ever to it. > > I am also on the LDAP team for tldp.org but not really done much about it, but > this is a very good one to go into it. > > I have these points which I sent to him: > > 1. The backend ldap should be bdb not ldbm (discussed very in depth on the > OpenLDAP lists). > > 2. You should really have access controls on the LDAP database, as anyone can > then read your hashed password over the wire, unless, which I didn't notice, > you only have the LDAP server listening on localhost? > > 3. You should be using TLS. > > 4. Could you do a wee conclusion, rounding everything off. > > > > > P.S. I just found this one on his site: > > http://www.vcs.u52.k12.me.us/LDAP/The_SAMBA-LDAP_How-to.html > > I don't know which is newer, but this one seems more complete. > > I'll check. > > Gavin. > > I think this comes from: > > http://samba.idealx.org/smbldap-howto.en.html > > > - ---------- Forwarded Message ---------- > > Subject: [K12OSN] Samba/LDAP how-to in OO format > Date: Wednesday 16 Jun 2004 03:28 > From: "David Trask" > To: K12OSN at redhat.com > > http://web.vcs.u52.k12.me.us/linux/Samba-LDAP.sxw > > here's the Samba LDAP how-to in OO format > > David N. Trask > Technology Teacher/Coordinator > Vassalboro Community School > dtrask at vcs.u52.k12.me.us > (207)923-3100 > > > _______________________________________________ > K12OSN mailing list > K12OSN at redhat.com > https://www.redhat.com/mailman/listinfo/k12osn > For more info see > > - ------------------------------------------------------- > > - -- > Kind Regards, > > Gavin Henry. > Managing Director. > > T +44 (0) 1224 587369 > M +44 (0) 7930 323266 > F +44 (0) 1224 742001 > E ghenry at suretecsystems.com > > Open Source. Open Solutions. > > http://www.suretecsystems.com/ > > -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- > Version: GnuPG v1.2.4 (GNU/Linux) > > iD8DBQFA0KKxgNqd7Kng8UoRArTHAKDcOAa52LJQGuaEDeRo1GyTHd2VwQCfdxO8 > SCZNaH+RdbzGzGx8cPaLdJs= > =6Ckx > -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- From gavin.henry at magicfx.co.uk Thu Jun 17 09:15:37 2004 From: gavin.henry at magicfx.co.uk (Gavin Henry) Date: Thu, 17 Jun 2004 10:15:37 +0100 Subject: Fwd: [K12OSN] Samba/LDAP how-to in OO format In-Reply-To: <1087415302.4409.24.camel@berlin.east.gov> References: <200406162042.41732.gavin.henry@magicfx.co.uk> <1087415302.4409.24.camel@berlin.east.gov> Message-ID: <200406171015.40498.gavin.henry@magicfx.co.uk> -----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- Hash: SHA1 On Wednesday 16 Jun 2004 20:48, Paul W. Frields wrote: > I'll be happy to do it. If you don't mind, find out if he wants to make > your changes first. ">I hope the community does remedy all those points to give this very >useful document a more robust treatment of security, and make FC2 a >little less complex to implement samba/ldap on. Definitely...I'm by no means an expert...I'm driven by a need to tie my Windoze and LTSP users together...hence Samba/LDAP....please...pitch in...feel free to rewrite the doc and please let me know if you do so I can try it ?:-)" Go ahead Paul, thanks. > > On Wed, 2004-06-16 at 15:42, Gavin Henry wrote: > > -----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- > > Hash: SHA1 > > > > This has come from the K12OSN project and I have it now on: > > > > http://FedoraNEWS.ORG/ghenry/ldap > > > > It's waiting for me to finish tagging/cleaning it. > > > > Would someone like to Docbook it up for the docs project? I have > > permission to do what ever to it. > > > > I am also on the LDAP team for tldp.org but not really done much about > > it, but this is a very good one to go into it. > > > > I have these points which I sent to him: > > > > 1. The backend ldap should be bdb not ldbm (discussed very in depth on > > the OpenLDAP lists). > > > > 2. You should really have access controls on the LDAP database, as anyone > > can then read your hashed password over the wire, unless, which I didn't > > notice, you only have the LDAP server listening on localhost? > > > > 3. You should be using TLS. > > > > 4. Could you do a wee conclusion, rounding everything off. > > > > > > > > > > P.S. I just found this one on his site: > > > > http://www.vcs.u52.k12.me.us/LDAP/The_SAMBA-LDAP_How-to.html > > > > I don't know which is newer, but this one seems more complete. > > > > I'll check. > > > > Gavin. > > > > I think this comes from: > > > > http://samba.idealx.org/smbldap-howto.en.html > > > > > > - ---------- Forwarded Message ---------- > > > > Subject: [K12OSN] Samba/LDAP how-to in OO format > > Date: Wednesday 16 Jun 2004 03:28 > > From: "David Trask" > > To: K12OSN at redhat.com > > > > http://web.vcs.u52.k12.me.us/linux/Samba-LDAP.sxw > > > > here's the Samba LDAP how-to in OO format > > > > David N. Trask > > Technology Teacher/Coordinator > > Vassalboro Community School > > dtrask at vcs.u52.k12.me.us > > (207)923-3100 > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > > K12OSN mailing list > > K12OSN at redhat.com > > https://www.redhat.com/mailman/listinfo/k12osn > > For more info see > > > > - ------------------------------------------------------- > > > > - -- > > Kind Regards, > > > > Gavin Henry. > > Managing Director. > > > > T +44 (0) 1224 587369 > > M +44 (0) 7930 323266 > > F +44 (0) 1224 742001 > > E ghenry at suretecsystems.com > > > > Open Source. Open Solutions. > > > > http://www.suretecsystems.com/ > > > > -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- > > Version: GnuPG v1.2.4 (GNU/Linux) > > > > iD8DBQFA0KKxgNqd7Kng8UoRArTHAKDcOAa52LJQGuaEDeRo1GyTHd2VwQCfdxO8 > > SCZNaH+RdbzGzGx8cPaLdJs= > > =6Ckx > > -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- - -- Kind Regards, Gavin Henry. http://www.magicfx.co.uk http://FedoraNEWS.ORG/ghenry http://shorl.com/dokypyrirypa http://www.suretecsystems.com -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: GnuPG v1.2.4 (GNU/Linux) iD8DBQFA0WE8gNqd7Kng8UoRAgjjAJ4nbLDaerO42cZN1sjnXY5CSS96AACfXHrt bRHbT9edUB3o4rfvxpu/mjo= =rOK7 -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- From dpawson at nildram.co.uk Thu Jun 17 16:36:19 2004 From: dpawson at nildram.co.uk (Dave Pawson) Date: Thu, 17 Jun 2004 17:36:19 +0100 Subject: New Volunteer In-Reply-To: <38035.199.224.21.254.1087397578.squirrel@TheRockmere.com> References: <38035.199.224.21.254.1087397578.squirrel@TheRockmere.com> Message-ID: <6.1.0.6.2.20040617173406.028c39f0@pop3.gotadsl.co.uk> At 15:52 16/06/2004, you wrote: >Hello All ! >My name is Brad Smith. Hi Brad. >I have set Cygwin up on the WinBox at work and am finishing install of >OpenJade on my own Server. Are there templates that I can grab from >outside the CVS for the DTD and DocBook for the WinBox? I have >DocBook-xsl-1.60.1 on it now. > >I am a newbie at CVS and DocBook creation so please bear with me if some >of my question seem simplistic. We all ask stupid questions at first. The surprise comes when we start answering them, thinking we know nothing :) Gentle suggestion. Try the xslt docbook stylesheets, rationale: they are about an order more recent than the dsssl ones. Then you don't even need cygwin.... (or you could use Fedora... and still not need cygwin :-) regards DaveP From dpawson at nildram.co.uk Thu Jun 17 16:38:27 2004 From: dpawson at nildram.co.uk (Dave Pawson) Date: Thu, 17 Jun 2004 17:38:27 +0100 Subject: dduuppllliiccaattees Message-ID: <6.1.0.6.2.20040617173714.028c3760@pop3.gotadsl.co.uk> Gosh that's hard to write. I mistakenly subscribed with another email address. Now Tammy's gone (temp I hope - has anyone heard?) who holds the subscribe | cancel pen? regards DaveP From marzmaf at tin.it Thu Jun 17 18:24:20 2004 From: marzmaf at tin.it (Marzio Maffei) Date: Thu, 17 Jun 2004 20:24:20 +0200 Subject: SB AWE 32 and Fedora core 2 Message-ID: <1087496660.5081.3.camel@localhost> anyone know how to make the SB AWE 32 work with fedora core 2 during the boot the system detect it but the tool for autodetect the sound card say: " no card found!!" is there any utility or other things to make this sound card work!! (with all other RedHat distro and fedora core 1 i always use sndconfig and all worked fine!! ) many thanks!! From kwade at redhat.com Thu Jun 17 18:39:18 2004 From: kwade at redhat.com (Karsten Wade) Date: Thu, 17 Jun 2004 11:39:18 -0700 Subject: New Volunteer In-Reply-To: <6.1.0.6.2.20040617173406.028c39f0@pop3.gotadsl.co.uk> References: <38035.199.224.21.254.1087397578.squirrel@TheRockmere.com> <6.1.0.6.2.20040617173406.028c39f0@pop3.gotadsl.co.uk> Message-ID: <1087497558.6487.79.camel@erato.phig.org> On Thu, 2004-06-17 at 09:36, Dave Pawson wrote: > >I have set Cygwin up on the WinBox at work and am finishing install of > >OpenJade on my own Server. Are there templates that I can grab from > >outside the CVS for the DTD and DocBook for the WinBox? I have > >DocBook-xsl-1.60.1 on it now. > > > (or you could use Fedora... and still not need cygwin :-) It sounds as if you are trying to get part or all of the DocBook toolchain running under Windows. While I won't say this is futile, it will definitely exercise the edges of your sanity. Instead, have you considered connecting from your Windows OS via PuTTY (http://www.chiark.greenend.org.uk/~sgtatham/putty/) to a Fedora Core server with the Authoring and Publishing package group installed (i.e., docbook-*, tetex, xmlto, etc.)? You can edit using 'emacs -nw', build on the FC server, and publish the pages with Apache to view with your browser under Windows. Even the Fedora Core 2 install I have running on a P-200 MMX with 64 MB RAM will build our documents in reasonable time. :) hth - Karsten -- Karsten Wade, RHCE, Tech Writer this .signature subject to random changes http://people.redhat.com/kwade/ gpg fingerprint: 2680 DBFD D968 3141 0115 5F1B D992 0E06 AD0E 0C41 From rahulsundaram at yahoo.co.in Thu Jun 17 19:05:41 2004 From: rahulsundaram at yahoo.co.in (=?iso-8859-1?q?Rahul=20Sundaram?=) Date: Thu, 17 Jun 2004 20:05:41 +0100 (BST) Subject: SB AWE 32 and Fedora core 2 In-Reply-To: <1087496660.5081.3.camel@localhost> Message-ID: <20040617190541.71918.qmail@web8006.mail.in.yahoo.com> --- Marzio Maffei wrote: > anyone know how to make the SB AWE 32 work with > fedora core 2 > during the boot the system detect it but the tool > for autodetect the > sound card say: " no card found!!" > is there any utility or other things to make this > sound card work!! > (with all other RedHat distro and fedora core 1 i > always use sndconfig > and all worked fine!! ) > > many thanks!! Hi This is a mailing list only meant for document writers, helpers and editors. Please use the fedora mailing list for any other kind of questions. To answer your question use menu->system tools- sound configuration or system-config-sound from the command line or run prompt If your card isnt detected please use the other mailing list for more information. search the archives before asking regards Rahul Sundaram ________________________________________________________________________ Yahoo! India Matrimony: Find your partner online. http://yahoo.shaadi.com/india-matrimony/ From kwade at redhat.com Thu Jun 17 19:14:53 2004 From: kwade at redhat.com (Karsten Wade) Date: Thu, 17 Jun 2004 12:14:53 -0700 Subject: dduuppllliiccaattees In-Reply-To: <6.1.0.6.2.20040617173714.028c3760@pop3.gotadsl.co.uk> References: <6.1.0.6.2.20040617173714.028c3760@pop3.gotadsl.co.uk> Message-ID: <1087499693.6487.90.camel@erato.phig.org> On Thu, 2004-06-17 at 09:38, Dave Pawson wrote: > Gosh that's hard to write. > > I mistakenly subscribed with another email > address. > > Now Tammy's gone (temp I hope - has anyone heard?) Well, at least until her new baby lets her get her hands on a keyboard. :) > who holds the subscribe | cancel pen? Can't you unsub yourself? Or is there something broken about redhat.com/mailman? I unsubbed an account from fedora-list recently, it worked just fine. >From http://www.redhat.com/mailman/listinfo/fedora-docs-list, filling in the errant email address in the last field, and clicking "Unsubscribe or edit options" ... this doesn't work for you? Oh, yeah, and looking at that page, I notice the list is actually run by 'bfox at redhat.com' (Brent Fox), so contact him if you can't get the unsub to work via normal methods. - Karsten -- Karsten Wade, RHCE, Tech Writer this .signature subject to random changes http://people.redhat.com/kwade/ gpg fingerprint: 2680 DBFD D968 3141 0115 5F1B D992 0E06 AD0E 0C41 From dpawson at nildram.co.uk Thu Jun 17 19:52:57 2004 From: dpawson at nildram.co.uk (DaveP) Date: Thu, 17 Jun 2004 20:52:57 +0100 Subject: dduuppllliiccaattees In-Reply-To: <1087499693.6487.90.camel@erato.phig.org> References: <6.1.0.6.2.20040617173714.028c3760@pop3.gotadsl.co.uk> <1087499693.6487.90.camel@erato.phig.org> Message-ID: <6.1.0.6.2.20040617205140.0367f7e0@pop3.gotadsl.co.uk> At 20:14 17/06/2004, you wrote: > > who holds the subscribe | cancel pen? > >Can't you unsub yourself? Or is there something broken about >redhat.com/mailman? I unsubbed an account from fedora-list recently, it >worked just fine. I'll try again, but yes, I did that. > >From http://www.redhat.com/mailman/listinfo/fedora-docs-list, filling in >the errant email address in the last field, and clicking "Unsubscribe or >edit options" ... this doesn't work for you? > >Oh, yeah, and looking at that page, I notice the list is actually run by >'bfox at redhat.com' (Brent Fox), so contact him if you can't get the unsub >to work via normal methods. Thanks. Nice to know there's a person behind it. Does anyone else see a double reply-to content, when they reply-to-all? regards DaveP From dpawson at nildram.co.uk Thu Jun 17 19:56:06 2004 From: dpawson at nildram.co.uk (DaveP) Date: Thu, 17 Jun 2004 20:56:06 +0100 Subject: dduuppllliiccaattees In-Reply-To: <1087499693.6487.90.camel@erato.phig.org> References: <6.1.0.6.2.20040617173714.028c3760@pop3.gotadsl.co.uk> <1087499693.6487.90.camel@erato.phig.org> Message-ID: <6.1.0.6.2.20040617205531.02940140@pop3.gotadsl.co.uk> At 20:14 17/06/2004, you wrote: >Can't you unsub yourself? Or is there something broken about >redhat.com/mailman? Tried again, got the email, replied, see if that works. Thanks Karsten. regards DaveP From dpawson at nildram.co.uk Thu Jun 17 19:51:17 2004 From: dpawson at nildram.co.uk (DaveP) Date: Thu, 17 Jun 2004 20:51:17 +0100 Subject: New Volunteer In-Reply-To: <1087497558.6487.79.camel@erato.phig.org> References: <38035.199.224.21.254.1087397578.squirrel@TheRockmere.com> <6.1.0.6.2.20040617173406.028c39f0@pop3.gotadsl.co.uk> <1087497558.6487.79.camel@erato.phig.org> Message-ID: <6.1.0.6.2.20040617204837.036747e8@pop3.gotadsl.co.uk> At 19:39 17/06/2004, Karsten Wade wrote: >It sounds as if you are trying to get part or all of the DocBook >toolchain running under Windows. While I won't say this is futile, it >will definitely exercise the edges of your sanity. No it won't. Its easy. I can do it, so it must be. I've just had to install jdk 1.4..... something on Fedora core 1 (how to upgrade???) Now that is hard! Anyone like to document how slocate and locate work please? >Instead, have you considered connecting from your Windows OS via PuTTY >(http://www.chiark.greenend.org.uk/~sgtatham/putty/) to a Fedora Core >server with the Authoring and Publishing package group installed (i.e., >docbook-*, tetex, xmlto, etc.)? Now that is hard :-) I do it for a wiki server I have at work. > You can edit using 'emacs -nw', Oh dear. Karsten, that is *really* hard, when emacs runs on windows so well. regards DaveP (don't know why, but defending win32 :-) From kwade at redhat.com Thu Jun 17 23:36:57 2004 From: kwade at redhat.com (Karsten Wade) Date: Thu, 17 Jun 2004 16:36:57 -0700 Subject: New Volunteer In-Reply-To: <6.1.0.6.2.20040617204837.036747e8@pop3.gotadsl.co.uk> References: <38035.199.224.21.254.1087397578.squirrel@TheRockmere.com> <6.1.0.6.2.20040617173406.028c39f0@pop3.gotadsl.co.uk> <1087497558.6487.79.camel@erato.phig.org> <6.1.0.6.2.20040617204837.036747e8@pop3.gotadsl.co.uk> Message-ID: <1087515417.6487.139.camel@erato.phig.org> On Thu, 2004-06-17 at 12:51, DaveP wrote: > At 19:39 17/06/2004, Karsten Wade wrote: > > > >It sounds as if you are trying to get part or all of the DocBook > >toolchain running under Windows. While I won't say this is futile, it > >will definitely exercise the edges of your sanity. > > No it won't. > Its easy. > I can do it, so it must be. I'll take your word for it. I don't have any way to try it out. > >Instead, have you considered connecting from your Windows OS via PuTTY > >(http://www.chiark.greenend.org.uk/~sgtatham/putty/) to a Fedora Core > >server with the Authoring and Publishing package group installed (i.e., > >docbook-*, tetex, xmlto, etc.)? > > Now that is hard :-) I do it for a wiki server I have at work. What is hard about using PuTTY to run 'make html' at the shell? > > You can edit using 'emacs -nw', > > Oh dear. > Karsten, that is *really* hard, > when emacs runs on windows so well. Okay, okay, that's fine if Emacs runs well under Windows. Running Emacs at the command line is a good thing for an Emacs user to know how to do, for situations just like this. I was thinking more about the toolchain. If it were myself, with a good running copy of Emacs under Windows, I would still use PuTTY to scp my XML to the server. My reasoning for keeping the Fedora docs toolchain running under Fedora Core is that is where it is designed to run, best to troubleshoot, and somewhat supportable/fixable. > (don't know why, but defending win32 :-) I don't either, and not from a value judgment about Windows OSes position, but because this is not a discussion list about running DocBook-based tools under Windows. I didn't want to sound mean and tyrannical to Brad or any other user who has to exist under Windows, I just thought a solution that was thematic with the beginning and ending (FIFO - Fedora in, Fedora out) might make more sense. cheers - Karsten -- Karsten Wade, RHCE, Tech Writer this .signature subject to random changes http://people.redhat.com/kwade/ gpg fingerprint: 2680 DBFD D968 3141 0115 5F1B D992 0E06 AD0E 0C41 From bfox at redhat.com Fri Jun 18 15:48:47 2004 From: bfox at redhat.com (Brent Fox) Date: Fri, 18 Jun 2004 11:48:47 -0400 Subject: unsubscribe? In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <1087573727.4269.6.camel@verve.devel.redhat.com> On Wed, 2004-06-09 at 14:37, jos preeker wrote: > I tried to unsubscribe a few times (click link on bottom of email, login and > unsubscribe) and it said it'd send me a confirmation email. But it never > did. Can anyone help me unsubscribe? Are you still having problems unsubscribing? --Brent From dpawson at nildram.co.uk Fri Jun 18 18:55:54 2004 From: dpawson at nildram.co.uk (DaveP) Date: Fri, 18 Jun 2004 19:55:54 +0100 Subject: New Volunteer In-Reply-To: <1087515417.6487.139.camel@erato.phig.org> References: <38035.199.224.21.254.1087397578.squirrel@TheRockmere.com> <6.1.0.6.2.20040617173406.028c39f0@pop3.gotadsl.co.uk> <1087497558.6487.79.camel@erato.phig.org> <6.1.0.6.2.20040617204837.036747e8@pop3.gotadsl.co.uk> <1087515417.6487.139.camel@erato.phig.org> Message-ID: <6.1.0.6.2.20040618195236.028ccc78@pop3.gotadsl.co.uk> At 00:36 18/06/2004, Karsten Wade wrote: > > >Instead, have you considered connecting from your Windows OS via PuTTY > > >(http://www.chiark.greenend.org.uk/~sgtatham/putty/) to a Fedora Core > > >server with the Authoring and Publishing package group installed (i.e., > > >docbook-*, tetex, xmlto, etc.)? > > > > Now that is hard :-) I do it for a wiki server I have at work. > >What is hard about using PuTTY to run 'make html' at the shell? I thought you meant running emacs via putty. >Okay, okay, that's fine if Emacs runs well under Windows. Just as well as it does on Linux. >I was thinking more about the toolchain. If it were myself, with a good >running copy of Emacs under Windows, I would still use PuTTY to scp my >XML to the server. I dont' know what scp is. I generally use a local (to windows) tool chain to check that what I've written is valid, that the resultant html is good etc. Final deliverable is XML, so I don't need to use dsssl. >My reasoning for keeping the Fedora docs toolchain running under Fedora >Core is that is where it is designed to run, best to troubleshoot, and >somewhat supportable/fixable. Is it used only for interim viewing though? The end result html is built by redhat staff isn't it? > > (don't know why, but defending win32 :-) > >I don't either, and not from a value judgment about Windows OSes >position, but because this is not a discussion list about running >DocBook-based tools under Windows. I didn't want to sound mean and >tyrannical to Brad or any other user who has to exist under Windows, I >just thought a solution that was thematic with the beginning and ending >(FIFO - Fedora in, Fedora out) might make more sense. I guess it depends why you want to style the xml? regards DaveP From admin at sscrmnl.edu.ph Sat Jun 19 02:26:06 2004 From: admin at sscrmnl.edu.ph (Internet Admin) Date: Sat, 19 Jun 2004 10:26:06 +0800 Subject: unable to read header list during local ftp install (windows 2003) Message-ID: <000701c455a4$ccd51290$ed7aa7cb@NATS.SSCRMNL.EDU.PH> Hi, It seems that i always get the message "Unable to read header list" upon installing fedora core 2 using local ftp. My ftp server runs on windows 2003. Is there a special kind of setup on the ftp directory tree? Ive look for hdlist* on fedora tree and its there... TIA -- This message has been scanned for viruses and dangerous contents on SSCR Email Scanner Server, and is believed to be clean. From hasan at paprikaas.biz Sat Jun 19 04:38:38 2004 From: hasan at paprikaas.biz (hasan at paprikaas.biz) Date: Fri, 18 Jun 2004 21:38:38 -0700 (PDT) Subject: Mail from Hasan for a help in samaba Message-ID: <22956.61.95.207.59.1087619918.squirrel@mail.paprikaas.biz> Hi I am working with samba integartion with RH9 server and Fedora F2 machine. I can easly see the machines both linux and windows machines in a nmblookup \* on command prompt. But perhaps while i browse through the xwindow in nautilus with smb:/// i cannot see my network machines. And it take much time to say no. But asfar as other RH9 based machines and winodows it is working quite fine. Can anybody help me out to resolve this problem. hoping to hear from you all soon. with best regards hasan From linux at bytebot.net Sat Jun 19 07:46:43 2004 From: linux at bytebot.net (Colin Charles) Date: Sat, 19 Jun 2004 17:46:43 +1000 Subject: Mail from Hasan for a help in samaba In-Reply-To: <22956.61.95.207.59.1087619918.squirrel@mail.paprikaas.biz> References: <22956.61.95.207.59.1087619918.squirrel@mail.paprikaas.biz> Message-ID: <1087631203.5937.64.camel@albus.aeon.com.my> On Sat, 2004-06-19 at 14:38, hasan at paprikaas.biz wrote: Hasan, The correct place for problems like this is fedora-list at redhat.com - http://www.redhat.com/mailman/listinfo/fedora-list > I am working with samba integartion with RH9 server and Fedora F2 machine. > I can easly see the machines both linux and windows machines in a > nmblookup \* on command prompt. But perhaps while i browse through the > xwindow in nautilus with smb:/// i cannot see my network machines. And it > take much time to say no. But asfar as other RH9 based machines and > winodows it is working quite fine. -- Colin Charles, byte at aeon.com.my http://www.bytebot.net/ From linux at bytebot.net Sat Jun 19 07:47:21 2004 From: linux at bytebot.net (Colin Charles) Date: Sat, 19 Jun 2004 17:47:21 +1000 Subject: unable to read header list during local ftp install (windows 2003) In-Reply-To: <000701c455a4$ccd51290$ed7aa7cb@NATS.SSCRMNL.EDU.PH> References: <000701c455a4$ccd51290$ed7aa7cb@NATS.SSCRMNL.EDU.PH> Message-ID: <1087631241.5937.66.camel@albus.aeon.com.my> On Sat, 2004-06-19 at 12:26, Internet Admin wrote: Hi Internet Admin, The correct place is fedora-list at redhat.com - http://www.redhat.com/mailman/listinfo/fedora-list Kind regards > It seems that i always get the message "Unable to read header list" upon > installing fedora core 2 using local ftp. My ftp server runs on windows > 2003. Is there a special kind of setup on the ftp directory tree? Ive look > for hdlist* on fedora tree and its there... -- Colin Charles, byte at aeon.com.my http://www.bytebot.net/ From dpawson at nildram.co.uk Sat Jun 19 14:37:31 2004 From: dpawson at nildram.co.uk (DaveP) Date: Sat, 19 Jun 2004 15:37:31 +0100 Subject: unsubscribe? In-Reply-To: <1087573727.4269.6.camel@verve.devel.redhat.com> References: <1087573727.4269.6.camel@verve.devel.redhat.com> Message-ID: <6.1.0.6.2.20040619153613.0292fa40@pop3.gotadsl.co.uk> At 16:48 18/06/2004, you wrote: >On Wed, 2004-06-09 at 14:37, jos preeker wrote: > > I tried to unsubscribe a few times (click link on bottom of email, > login and > > unsubscribe) and it said it'd send me a confirmation email. But it never > > did. Can anyone help me unsubscribe? > >Are you still having problems unsubscribing? No, down to one copy of emails now :-) regards DaveP From redwire at therockmere.com Sat Jun 19 23:19:09 2004 From: redwire at therockmere.com (redwire at therockmere.com) Date: Sat, 19 Jun 2004 19:19:09 -0400 (EDT) Subject: DocBook via Windows Message-ID: <42997.151.201.43.170.1087687149.squirrel@TheRockmere.com> Thanks for the heads up on the Cygwin and getting the DocBook files. I have putty on my WinBox and will connect with the link you provided. I'm looking to use Cygwin\NTEmacs for the XML markup and then once my project was complete to port it to my Fedora Server to parse the final DocBook. I'm working on my CVS cmds and am also working on a tutorial for migration from RH [8 or 9] to FC [1 or 2] via YUM. It isn't that long, but is good for me to cut my teeth on. Thanks, Brad From info at multi-graphics.nl Sun Jun 20 10:17:04 2004 From: info at multi-graphics.nl (Eelco Alosery) Date: Sun, 20 Jun 2004 12:17:04 +0200 Subject: Instal Fedora on a osx Apple G4 server. Message-ID: Hello, I have a smal webhosting company and for now i rent te servers running the hosted main and websites. But I want to have my own servers and learn to manage them. Now i know that the Apple osx server software can handel this all, but i waant to use the online control panels form ENSIM. And that can only be instaled on fedora or red hat linux. But I need this ENSIM sotware becose I already use this on my rental servers. So this is wy i want to instal fedora on a Apple G4 Xserver or a G5 Xserver. Is there some person who can gif me the information where to start from. And it wil even be better if that person gan tell it to me in dutch. Becose i'm from the netherlands :-) I'm a total newbe on instalin unix/linux from scratsh but i realy want to learn it. Thanx, Eelco Alosery From linux at bytebot.net Sun Jun 20 12:26:25 2004 From: linux at bytebot.net (Colin Charles) Date: Sun, 20 Jun 2004 22:26:25 +1000 Subject: Instal Fedora on a osx Apple G4 server. In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <1087734384.10293.65.camel@albus.aeon.com.my> On Sun, 2004-06-20 at 20:17, Eelco Alosery wrote: > So this is wy i want to instal fedora on a Apple G4 Xserver or a G5 > Xserver. This question is best suited on fedora-list at redhat.com, and since its PPC specific, we actually have a PPC-based list - fedora-ppc at lists.ydl.net for such discussion http://www.bytebot.net/geekdocs/ibook/fedorappc.html might be of some help to you, as well Regards -- Colin Charles, byte at aeon.com.my http://www.bytebot.net/ From dataking at cox.net Sun Jun 20 16:52:38 2004 From: dataking at cox.net (D@7@k|N&) Date: Sun, 20 Jun 2004 09:52:38 -0700 Subject: Instal Fedora on a osx Apple G4 server. In-Reply-To: Message-ID: -----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- Hash: SHA1 Perhaps you got the wrong group as the is the "Docs" mailing list. However you could try the following link: http://www.fedoraforum.org/forum/forumdisplay.php?f=51 They have just started a forum for people trying to put Fedora Core2 on PPC. I'm also a little curious why is HAS to be Fedora or Red Hat. - - - -=D at 7@k|N&=- - -----Original Message----- From: fedora-docs-list-bounces at redhat.com [mailto:fedora-docs-list-bounces at redhat.com] On Behalf Of Eelco Alosery Sent: Sunday, June 20, 2004 3:17 AM To: fedora-docs-list at redhat.com Subject: Instal Fedora on a osx Apple G4 server. Hello, I have a smal webhosting company and for now i rent te servers running the hosted main and websites. But I want to have my own servers and learn to manage them. Now i know that the Apple osx server software can handel this all, but i waant to use the online control panels form ENSIM. And that can only be instaled on fedora or red hat linux. But I need this ENSIM sotware becose I already use this on my rental servers. So this is wy i want to instal fedora on a Apple G4 Xserver or a G5 Xserver. Is there some person who can gif me the information where to start from. And it wil even be better if that person gan tell it to me in dutch. Becose i'm from the netherlands :-) I'm a total newbe on instalin unix/linux from scratsh but i realy want to learn it. Thanx, Eelco Alosery - -- fedora-docs-list mailing list fedora-docs-list at redhat.com To unsubscribe: http://www.redhat.com/mailman/listinfo/fedora-docs-list -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: PGP 8.0 iQA/AwUBQNXA1abnQHwVWKJjEQJ7WACeMj08ftao1AATx0+1wbpwe8ZL8E8AoMjf 0Vv1leU0oWhXwU3Phqo5hxij =TVHb -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- From rahulsundaram at yahoo.co.in Mon Jun 21 19:23:19 2004 From: rahulsundaram at yahoo.co.in (=?iso-8859-1?q?Rahul=20Sundaram?=) Date: Mon, 21 Jun 2004 20:23:19 +0100 (BST) Subject: Instal Fedora on a osx Apple G4 server. In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <20040621192319.234.qmail@web8002.mail.in.yahoo.com> --- Eelco Alosery wrote: > Hello, > > I have a smal webhosting company and for now i rent > te servers running > the hosted main and websites. > But I want to have my own servers and learn to > manage them. Hi This mailing list is only meant for documentation writers, helpers and editors. Please subscribe to the general fedora mailing list and ask. You have better chances of getting a response Thanks Rahul Sundaram ________________________________________________________________________ Yahoo! India Matrimony: Find your partner online. http://yahoo.shaadi.com/india-matrimony/ From redwire at therockmere.com Tue Jun 22 19:05:44 2004 From: redwire at therockmere.com (redwire at therockmere.com) Date: Tue, 22 Jun 2004 15:05:44 -0400 (EDT) Subject: file retreival syntax Message-ID: <34908.199.224.21.254.1087931144.squirrel@TheRockmere.com> I've logged into the CVS to poke around and get the xml stylesheets. But, what is my syntax for d'l of the files. I don't check them out, correct?. Thanks, Brad From linux at bytebot.net Tue Jun 22 22:02:37 2004 From: linux at bytebot.net (Colin Charles) Date: Wed, 23 Jun 2004 08:02:37 +1000 Subject: file retreival syntax In-Reply-To: <34908.199.224.21.254.1087931144.squirrel@TheRockmere.com> References: <34908.199.224.21.254.1087931144.squirrel@TheRockmere.com> Message-ID: <1087941756.2726.59.camel@hermione.aeon.com.my> On Wed, 2004-06-23 at 05:05, redwire at therockmere.com wrote: > I've logged into the CVS to poke around and get the xml stylesheets. But, > what is my syntax for d'l of the files. I don't check them out, correct?. Yes, you do check them out cvs co fedora-docs And the xsl stylesheets are in fedora-docs/xsl. fedora-docs/common contains DocBook XML files that are "shared" -- Colin Charles, byte at aeon.com.my http://www.bytebot.net/ From paul at frields.com Wed Jun 23 17:31:11 2004 From: paul at frields.com (Paul W. Frields) Date: Wed, 23 Jun 2004 13:31:11 -0400 Subject: Elements of Style and the documentation-guide Message-ID: <1088011871.2350.13.camel@berlin.east.gov> After spending the last several days doing markup on a syntactically and grammatically, er, "challenged" tutorial, I found myself in need of the solace of Strunk and White's "The Elements of Style," if only to remind myself that good writing does indeed exist outside my imagination. I noticed during my Web search that EoS was released some years ago into the public domain, and can be found in a variety of formats, although DocBook XML was not one of these as far as I can tell. I realize that "public domain" != "FDL," and therefore am wondering if anyone out there has sufficient expertise to address the extent to which EoS might be included in the documentation-guide. It would be a handy reference for contributors, so they might acquaint themselves with the way to write concisely before beginning a tutorial from scratch. It also would help editors (myself included) to make the right changes when presented with documentation that has been tortured and abused before a handoff. :-) In addition, or as an alternative, to EoS, perhaps there should be some guidelines that have been useful to the Red Hat staff in preparing their official RHL and RHEL documentation over the years. I have found those guides consistently clear, concise, and informative, and I would hope that FDP products would be of similar quality. By comparison, a lot of the documentation on the Web is poorly written, and often lapses into informalities, colloquialism, unhelpful jargon, and vague generalities. On the other hand, in many cases those materials will form the basis for future FDP work, so FDP content guidelines might be very useful as time goes on. (In the event that EoS can be included in the documentation-guide, I will volunteer to do markup, since I brought up the issue. I doubt it will be very difficult in any case, given that it's dominated by non-technical matter.) -- Paul W. Frields, RHCE From rahulsundaram at yahoo.co.in Wed Jun 23 18:30:09 2004 From: rahulsundaram at yahoo.co.in (=?iso-8859-1?q?Rahul=20Sundaram?=) Date: Wed, 23 Jun 2004 19:30:09 +0100 (BST) Subject: Elements of Style and the documentation-guide In-Reply-To: <1088011871.2350.13.camel@berlin.east.gov> Message-ID: <20040623183009.17744.qmail@web8007.mail.in.yahoo.com> Hi > > I realize that "public domain" != "FDL," and > therefore am wondering if > anyone out there has sufficient expertise to address > the extent to which > EoS might be included in the documentation-guide. It > would be a handy > reference for contributors, so they might acquaint > themselves with the > way to write concisely before beginning a tutorial > from scratch. It also > would help editors (myself included) to make the > right changes when > presented with documentation that has been tortured > and abused before a > handoff. :-) > I believe that public domain stuff certainly can be included as fdl'ed content in fedora but more i think it would be more appropriate if you do this and try to get this into the tldp collection(discuss at en.tldp.org) or somewhere more generic. It would be more useful to many others outside fedora too regards Rahul Sundaram ________________________________________________________________________ Yahoo! India Matrimony: Find your partner online. http://yahoo.shaadi.com/india-matrimony/ From paul at frields.com Wed Jun 23 20:02:54 2004 From: paul at frields.com (Paul W. Frields) Date: Wed, 23 Jun 2004 16:02:54 -0400 Subject: Elements of Style and the documentation-guide In-Reply-To: <20040623183009.17744.qmail@web8007.mail.in.yahoo.com> References: <20040623183009.17744.qmail@web8007.mail.in.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <1088020974.5245.3.camel@berlin.east.gov> On Wed, 2004-06-23 at 14:30, Rahul Sundaram wrote: > I believe that public domain stuff certainly can be > included as fdl'ed content in fedora but more i think > it would be more appropriate if you do this and try to > get this into the tldp collection(discuss at en.tldp.org) > or somewhere more generic. It would be more useful to > many others outside fedora too > regards Well, I know that PD material is GPL/FDL *compatible*, but I'm not sure to what extent that means you can cover it with the FDL without risk or trespass. If I get it marked up as DocBook/XML, I will certainly make it available to TLDP, although I would be surprised if there's interest there in governing uniformity. (By the way, just to avoid confusion, that's not a slam, nor was I referring to TLDP in my earlier comments; I've made use of plenty of their docs in the past.) -- Paul W. Frields, RHCE From dpawson at nildram.co.uk Wed Jun 23 20:08:28 2004 From: dpawson at nildram.co.uk (DaveP) Date: Wed, 23 Jun 2004 21:08:28 +0100 Subject: Elements of Style and the documentation-guide In-Reply-To: <1088011871.2350.13.camel@berlin.east.gov> References: <1088011871.2350.13.camel@berlin.east.gov> Message-ID: <6.1.0.6.2.20040623210708.034bbd80@pop3.gotadsl.co.uk> At 18:31 23/06/2004, Paul W. Frields wrote: >After spending the last several days doing markup on a syntactically and >grammatically, er, "challenged" tutorial, I found myself in need of the >solace of Strunk and White's "The Elements of Style," if only to remind >myself that good writing does indeed exist outside my imagination. I >noticed during my Web search that EoS was released some years ago into >the public domain, and can be found in a variety of formats, although >DocBook XML was not one of these as far as I can tell. > >I realize that "public domain" != "FDL," and therefore am wondering if >anyone out there has sufficient expertise to address the extent to which >EoS might be included in the documentation-guide. Great idea. How about asking in the commons arena, or the fdl licence group to find out just how to interpret that licence? Unsure where to go, but creative commons sounds about right? If it is OK, I'llhelp with the markup if needed. regards DaveP From mjohnson at redhat.com Wed Jun 23 20:18:53 2004 From: mjohnson at redhat.com (Mark Johnson) Date: Wed, 23 Jun 2004 16:18:53 -0400 Subject: Elements of Style and the documentation-guide In-Reply-To: <6.1.0.6.2.20040623210708.034bbd80@pop3.gotadsl.co.uk> References: <1088011871.2350.13.camel@berlin.east.gov> <6.1.0.6.2.20040623210708.034bbd80@pop3.gotadsl.co.uk> Message-ID: <40D9E5AD.3060206@redhat.com> DaveP wrote: > At 18:31 23/06/2004, Paul W. Frields wrote: > >> After spending the last several days doing markup on a syntactically and >> grammatically, er, "challenged" tutorial, I found myself in need of the >> solace of Strunk and White's "The Elements of Style," if only to remind >> myself that good writing does indeed exist outside my imagination. I >> noticed during my Web search that EoS was released some years ago into >> the public domain, and can be found in a variety of formats, although >> DocBook XML was not one of these as far as I can tell. >> >> I realize that "public domain" != "FDL," and therefore am wondering if >> anyone out there has sufficient expertise to address the extent to which >> EoS might be included in the documentation-guide. > > > > Great idea. How about asking in the commons arena, > or the fdl licence group to find out just how > to interpret that licence? You can also try . I know there was a huge thread on debian-devel (I think) not too long ago about some non-freeness aspects of the FDL. In fact, IIRC, a new FDL is due any day now that's meant to address some of these concerns. I believe it was "due" June 1st. HTH, Mark -- ---------------------------------------------------------- Mark Johnson Red Hat Documentation Group Tel: 919.754.4151 Fax: 919.754.3708 GPG fp: DBEA FA3C C46A 70B5 F120 568B 89D5 4F61 C07D E242 From paul at frields.com Wed Jun 23 21:04:01 2004 From: paul at frields.com (Paul W. Frields) Date: Wed, 23 Jun 2004 17:04:01 -0400 Subject: Elements of Style and the documentation-guide In-Reply-To: <40D9E5AD.3060206@redhat.com> References: <1088011871.2350.13.camel@berlin.east.gov> <6.1.0.6.2.20040623210708.034bbd80@pop3.gotadsl.co.uk> <40D9E5AD.3060206@redhat.com> Message-ID: <1088024641.13782.5.camel@bettie.internal.frields.org> On Wed, 2004-06-23 at 16:18, Mark Johnson wrote: > > Great idea. How about asking in the commons arena, > > or the fdl licence group to find out just how > > to interpret that licence? > > You can also try . I know there was a > huge thread on debian-devel (I think) not too long ago about some > non-freeness aspects of the FDL. In fact, IIRC, a new FDL is due any day > now that's meant to address some of these concerns. I believe it was > "due" June 1st. There are definitely some legal pitfalls that are becoming apparent in the current (soon to be "older"?) FDL. But nevertheless, I've been able to discover thanks to your and Dave's direction that public domain docs can be freely included in FDL docs without problems, as far as I can tell. Public domain works are "free as the air for public use." I would argue that you can't slap an FDL on it (and why bother anyway?), because that puts specific restrictions on its use. However, there is no reason it can't be distributed along with the other FDP materials, without the FDL license and instead bearing a simple statement that it is public domain material. I should be able to handle the markup myself, but Dave, thanks for your offer, and you'll be first one I'll contact if I can't complete it. -- Paul W. Frields, RHCE From kwade at redhat.com Wed Jun 23 21:16:55 2004 From: kwade at redhat.com (Karsten Wade) Date: Wed, 23 Jun 2004 14:16:55 -0700 Subject: Elements of Style and the documentation-guide In-Reply-To: <1088011871.2350.13.camel@berlin.east.gov> References: <1088011871.2350.13.camel@berlin.east.gov> Message-ID: <1088025415.6487.678.camel@erato.phig.org> Paul - your post stirs up several good ideas. Just a few thoughts right now, more to come when they are worth sharing ... On Wed, 2004-06-23 at 10:31, Paul W. Frields wrote: > After spending the last several days doing markup on a syntactically and > grammatically, er, "challenged" tutorial, I found myself in need of the > solace of Strunk and White's "The Elements of Style," if only to remind > myself that good writing does indeed exist outside my imagination. I > noticed during my Web search that EoS was released some years ago into > the public domain, and can be found in a variety of formats, although > DocBook XML was not one of these as far as I can tell. > > I realize that "public domain" != "FDL," and therefore am wondering if > anyone out there has sufficient expertise to address the extent to which > EoS might be included in the documentation-guide. It would be a handy > reference for contributors, so they might acquaint themselves with the > way to write concisely before beginning a tutorial from scratch. It also > would help editors (myself included) to make the right changes when > presented with documentation that has been tortured and abused before a > handoff. :-) > > In addition, or as an alternative, to EoS, perhaps there should be some > guidelines that have been useful to the Red Hat staff in preparing their > official RHL and RHEL documentation over the years. I have found those > guides consistently clear, concise, and informative, and I would hope > that FDP products would be of similar quality. By comparison, a lot of > the documentation on the Web is poorly written, and often lapses into > informalities, colloquialism, unhelpful jargon, and vague generalities. > On the other hand, in many cases those materials will form the basis for > future FDP work, so FDP content guidelines might be very useful as time > goes on. As do many organizations, we rely upon the classic "The Chicago Manual of Style" (http://www.press.uchicago.edu/Misc/Chicago/cmosfaq/about.html) as an underpinning for our editorial style. There are other layers we've added on top of that, and off the top of my head, I don't know if they would be useful or relevant to Fedora docs, or even available at all. But having that book in your bookshelf couldn't hurt, new fifteenth edition now available! But, yeah, we can't put it in an RPM to include in the docs authoring section of comps.xml ... I haven't found a free-licensed equivalent of the Chicago Manual of Style. What I've seen are focused on specific niches, such as travel writing[1] or Wiki[2] writing. If we find a style guide that someone has done already, and it's licensed correctly, we could adopt, absorb, or fork it as our own. I have seen guides that are based on The Chicago M.O.S.[3], and I don't know how they handle their legality. Consistency is the key, more so than one person's idea of "better" compared to another's. [1] http://wikitravel.org/en/article/Wikitravel:Manual_of_style http://www.world66.com/about/contributing_contents/manual_of_style [2] http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Manual_of_Style [3] http://www.lib.ohio-state.edu/guides/chicagogd.html > (In the event that EoS can be included in the documentation-guide, I > will volunteer to do markup, since I brought up the issue. I doubt it > will be very difficult in any case, given that it's dominated by > non-technical matter.) Looks like there is no fedora-legal-list, so I wouldn't know where to take that question ... I'll ask around, see if any answers present themselves. - Karsten -- Karsten Wade, RHCE, Tech Writer this .signature subject to random changes http://people.redhat.com/kwade/ gpg fingerprint: 2680 DBFD D968 3141 0115 5F1B D992 0E06 AD0E 0C41 From rahulsundaram at yahoo.co.in Wed Jun 23 22:14:37 2004 From: rahulsundaram at yahoo.co.in (=?iso-8859-1?q?Rahul=20Sundaram?=) Date: Wed, 23 Jun 2004 23:14:37 +0100 (BST) Subject: Elements of Style and the documentation-guide In-Reply-To: <1088024641.13782.5.camel@bettie.internal.frields.org> Message-ID: <20040623221437.4226.qmail@web8002.mail.in.yahoo.com> Hi > I would argue that you can't slap an FDL on it (and > why bother anyway?), > because that puts specific restrictions on its use. > However, there is no > reason it can't be distributed along with the other > FDP materials, > without the FDL license and instead bearing a simple > statement that it > is public domain material. afaik i know you can relicense PD stuff as FDL'ed just like revised BSD licenses can be relicensed as GPL. PD may not even hold as a valid distribution license http://www.linuxmafia.com/faq/Licensing_and_Law/public-domain.html you might want to use a liberal license like MIT instead of public domain. I also suggest to the fedora doc team to consider including creative commons attribution share alike license and a new fedora legal mailing list seems to be required regards Rahul Sundaram ________________________________________________________________________ Yahoo! India Matrimony: Find your partner online. http://yahoo.shaadi.com/india-matrimony/ From rahulsundaram at yahoo.co.in Wed Jun 23 22:17:52 2004 From: rahulsundaram at yahoo.co.in (=?iso-8859-1?q?Rahul=20Sundaram?=) Date: Wed, 23 Jun 2004 23:17:52 +0100 (BST) Subject: Elements of Style and the documentation-guide In-Reply-To: <1088020974.5245.3.camel@berlin.east.gov> Message-ID: <20040623221752.16936.qmail@web8001.mail.in.yahoo.com> If I get it marked up as DocBook/XML, I > will certainly make it > available to TLDP, although I would be surprised if > there's interest > there in governing uniformity. (By the way, just to > avoid confusion, > that's not a slam, nor was I referring to TLDP in my > earlier comments; > I've made use of plenty of their docs in the past.) > Of course there is a HUGE amount of interest inside tldp to create consistent looking documentation. as someone who has written and reviewed docs for tldp and generally participated in the discussion list there I can tell you that such a document would be most welcome regards Rahul Sundaram ________________________________________________________________________ Yahoo! India Matrimony: Find your partner online. http://yahoo.shaadi.com/india-matrimony/ From gold at vci.net Thu Jun 24 14:33:06 2004 From: gold at vci.net (VCI Gold Support) Date: Thu, 24 Jun 2004 09:33:06 -0500 Subject: Net-Snmp "no page line in /proc/stat" Message-ID: <40DAE622.30008@vci.net> Noticed that when running snmpd we get a message in the logs of no page/swap line in /proc/stat. Checked and there is none the error is correct. Does anyone know if this is an issue with kernel 2.6? Is it normal and safe to run like this? Also the Fedora page list the CPU requirements as AMD64 and Intel 64 processors , is this correct? Another site list compatibility with all Pentium processors, just wondering if there were any known issues. -- Chris Moss From dpawson at nildram.co.uk Thu Jun 24 16:32:21 2004 From: dpawson at nildram.co.uk (DaveP) Date: Thu, 24 Jun 2004 17:32:21 +0100 Subject: Elements of Style and the documentation-guide In-Reply-To: <1088024641.13782.5.camel@bettie.internal.frields.org> References: <1088011871.2350.13.camel@berlin.east.gov> <6.1.0.6.2.20040623210708.034bbd80@pop3.gotadsl.co.uk> <40D9E5AD.3060206@redhat.com> <1088024641.13782.5.camel@bettie.internal.frields.org> Message-ID: <6.1.0.6.2.20040624171352.034dee48@pop3.gotadsl.co.uk> At 22:04 23/06/2004, Paul W. Frields wrote: >I should be able to handle the markup myself, but Dave, thanks for your >offer, and you'll be first one I'll contact if I can't complete it. Look forward to it Paul. regards DaveP From dpawson at nildram.co.uk Thu Jun 24 16:35:57 2004 From: dpawson at nildram.co.uk (DaveP) Date: Thu, 24 Jun 2004 17:35:57 +0100 Subject: Elements of Style and the documentation-guide In-Reply-To: <1088025415.6487.678.camel@erato.phig.org> References: <1088011871.2350.13.camel@berlin.east.gov> <1088025415.6487.678.camel@erato.phig.org> Message-ID: <6.1.0.6.2.20040624173515.034eac98@pop3.gotadsl.co.uk> At 22:16 23/06/2004, Karsten Wade wrote: >As do many organizations, we rely upon the classic "The Chicago Manual >of Style" Which is very US centric I'm told? Is that right Karsten? regards DaveP From kwade at redhat.com Thu Jun 24 17:49:36 2004 From: kwade at redhat.com (Karsten Wade) Date: Thu, 24 Jun 2004 10:49:36 -0700 Subject: Elements of Style and the documentation-guide In-Reply-To: <6.1.0.6.2.20040624173515.034eac98@pop3.gotadsl.co.uk> References: <1088011871.2350.13.camel@berlin.east.gov> <1088025415.6487.678.camel@erato.phig.org> <6.1.0.6.2.20040624173515.034eac98@pop3.gotadsl.co.uk> Message-ID: <1088099376.3602.598.camel@erato.phig.org> On Thu, 2004-06-24 at 09:35, DaveP wrote: > At 22:16 23/06/2004, Karsten Wade wrote: > > > >As do many organizations, we rely upon the classic "The Chicago Manual > >of Style" > > > Which is very US centric I'm told? Is that right Karsten? Yes, it's the definitive guide to style for American English. However, this is style _not_ prose, so is mainly about font size, header usage, layout, i.e., presentation. In looking around how others use TCMoS, it's almost like a hand-wave -- you're really saying, "We rely upon this standard of typography and presentation." Just like the DTD called in the XML header, one is welcome to delve further to understand everything, just as one is welcome to accept the hand-wave and move on. After all, this is DocBook, style is not really the point, that's taken care of in the XSL and CSS. :) Proper tagging will be associated with a style that is, de facto, based on TCMoS. Okay, so how does this address Paul's question of prose style, grammar, and so forth? Apparently, the 15th edition of TCMoS has a new section on grammar, but I think relying upon The Elements of Style is easier and better. Adopting TEoS as a standard for Fedora docs is a good idea. Even if we choose not to freely distribute TEoS, we can certainly reference it. Here's a proposal -- let's research various online writing guides that are public domain or covered by a license such as the FDL or Creative Commons, allowing us to adopt and modify (fork) for our own usage. See if we can achieve 70% of our goal the free software way. :) - Karsten -- Karsten Wade, RHCE, Tech Writer this .signature subject to random changes http://people.redhat.com/kwade/ gpg fingerprint: 2680 DBFD D968 3141 0115 5F1B D992 0E06 AD0E 0C41 From joshuadfranklin at gmail.com Thu Jun 24 18:30:57 2004 From: joshuadfranklin at gmail.com (Joshua Daniel Franklin) Date: Thu, 24 Jun 2004 11:30:57 -0700 Subject: Elements of Style and the documentation-guide In-Reply-To: <1088011871.2350.13.camel@berlin.east.gov> References: <1088011871.2350.13.camel@berlin.east.gov> Message-ID: On Wed, 23 Jun 2004 13:31:11 -0400, Paul W. Frields wrote: > After spending the last several days doing markup on a syntactically and > grammatically, er, "challenged" tutorial, I found myself in need of the > solace of Strunk and White's "The Elements of Style," if only to remind > myself that good writing does indeed exist outside my imagination. I > noticed during my Web search that EoS was released some years ago into > the public domain, and can be found in a variety of formats, although > DocBook XML was not one of these as far as I can tell. Why not point people to the original classic elsewhere on the web too? http://www.bartleby.com/141/ From paul at frields.com Thu Jun 24 19:14:03 2004 From: paul at frields.com (Paul W. Frields) Date: Thu, 24 Jun 2004 15:14:03 -0400 Subject: Elements of Style and the documentation-guide In-Reply-To: References: <1088011871.2350.13.camel@berlin.east.gov> Message-ID: <1088104443.2383.322.camel@berlin.east.gov> On Thu, 2004-06-24 at 14:30, Joshua Daniel Franklin wrote: > Why not point people to the original classic elsewhere on the web too? > > http://www.bartleby.com/141/ I planned to, thanks for the reminder! ;-) -- Paul W. Frields, RHCE From dpawson at nildram.co.uk Thu Jun 24 19:14:46 2004 From: dpawson at nildram.co.uk (DaveP) Date: Thu, 24 Jun 2004 20:14:46 +0100 Subject: Elements of Style and the documentation-guide In-Reply-To: References: <1088011871.2350.13.camel@berlin.east.gov> Message-ID: <6.1.0.6.2.20040624201340.028029f8@pop3.gotadsl.co.uk> At 19:30 24/06/2004, you wrote: >Why not point people to the original classic elsewhere on the web too? > >http://www.bartleby.com/141/ Not heard of it. Unusual though, the guy died in 46, first published in 95, then again in 99. What happened? .... and what makes it a 'classic' of <10 years? I'm missing something. regards daveP From paul at frields.com Thu Jun 24 19:16:21 2004 From: paul at frields.com (Paul W. Frields) Date: Thu, 24 Jun 2004 15:16:21 -0400 Subject: Net-Snmp "no page line in /proc/stat" In-Reply-To: <40DAE622.30008@vci.net> References: <40DAE622.30008@vci.net> Message-ID: <1088104581.2383.328.camel@berlin.east.gov> On Thu, 2004-06-24 at 10:33, VCI Gold Support wrote: > Noticed that when running snmpd we get a message in the logs of no > page/swap line in /proc/stat. Checked and there is none the error is > correct. Does anyone know if this is an issue with kernel 2.6? Is it > normal and safe to run like this? Also the Fedora page list the CPU > requirements as AMD64 and Intel 64 processors , is this correct? Another > site list compatibility with all Pentium processors, just wondering if > there were any known issues. You've got the wrong list; the fedora-docs-list is for discussion of Fedora documentation. Join fedora-list and post this issue there (after checking the archives, of course). You will find more information at: http://www.redhat.com/archives/fedora-list/ Good luck and best wishes. -- Paul W. Frields, RHCE From kwade at redhat.com Thu Jun 24 19:30:53 2004 From: kwade at redhat.com (Karsten Wade) Date: Thu, 24 Jun 2004 12:30:53 -0700 Subject: Elements of Style and the documentation-guide In-Reply-To: <6.1.0.6.2.20040624201340.028029f8@pop3.gotadsl.co.uk> References: <1088011871.2350.13.camel@berlin.east.gov> <6.1.0.6.2.20040624201340.028029f8@pop3.gotadsl.co.uk> Message-ID: <1088105452.3602.711.camel@erato.phig.org> On Thu, 2004-06-24 at 12:14, DaveP wrote: > At 19:30 24/06/2004, you wrote: > > >Why not point people to the original classic elsewhere on the web too? > > > >http://www.bartleby.com/141/ > > > Not heard of it. I highly recommend you pick up a copy. Knowing and using the full Strunk and White version is, IMO, a requirement for writing good English. > Unusual though, the guy died in 46, first published in 95, then again in 99. > > What happened? > .... and what makes it a 'classic' of <10 years? > > I'm missing something. Short version - William Strunk first started giving out his "little book" in 1918 to his students. Strunk died in 1946. Author E.B. White, Strunk's student in 1919, added a few opinions and revisions, re-publishing the newly joint-authored book in 1959. It has had a few revisions. It is very small, easy to read and understand, and is very handy and useful. I presume it is only the original Strunk which is in the public domain, and that is largely the most useful part of the guide, and the copyright not owned by a large publishing house. More: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Elements_of_Style A review: http://www.writecraftweb.com/bookreviews/wcElementsofStyle.html -- Karsten Wade, RHCE, Tech Writer this .signature subject to random changes http://people.redhat.com/kwade/ gpg fingerprint: 2680 DBFD D968 3141 0115 5F1B D992 0E06 AD0E 0C41 From paul at frields.com Thu Jun 24 19:30:56 2004 From: paul at frields.com (Paul W. Frields) Date: Thu, 24 Jun 2004 15:30:56 -0400 Subject: Elements of Style and the documentation-guide In-Reply-To: <6.1.0.6.2.20040624201340.028029f8@pop3.gotadsl.co.uk> References: <1088011871.2350.13.camel@berlin.east.gov> <6.1.0.6.2.20040624201340.028029f8@pop3.gotadsl.co.uk> Message-ID: <1088105455.2383.355.camel@berlin.east.gov> On Thu, 2004-06-24 at 15:14, DaveP wrote: > >Why not point people to the original classic elsewhere on the web too? > > > >http://www.bartleby.com/141/ > Not heard of it. > Unusual though, the guy died in 46, first published in 95, then again in 99. > > What happened? > .... and what makes it a 'classic' of <10 years? > > I'm missing something. The original 1918 version is the one that exists in the public domain. Over the years it has been revised three times, including in 1959 by Strunk student E. B. White (author of "Charlotte's Web," "Stuart Little," and "The Trumpet of the Swan"). Other editions include 1972, 1979, and 2000. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Elements_of_Style This was a required text for my high school English class, and I recall clearly seeing English Composition 101 students carrying it around during my college days. -- Paul W. Frields, RHCE From kwade at redhat.com Thu Jun 24 19:36:25 2004 From: kwade at redhat.com (Karsten Wade) Date: Thu, 24 Jun 2004 12:36:25 -0700 Subject: Elements of Style and the documentation-guide In-Reply-To: <1088105455.2383.355.camel@berlin.east.gov> References: <1088011871.2350.13.camel@berlin.east.gov> <6.1.0.6.2.20040624201340.028029f8@pop3.gotadsl.co.uk> <1088105455.2383.355.camel@berlin.east.gov> Message-ID: <1088105784.3602.722.camel@erato.phig.org> On Thu, 2004-06-24 at 12:30, Paul W. Frields wrote: > This was a required text for my high school English class, and I recall > clearly seeing English Composition 101 students carrying it around > during my college days. Heh, I often carry a battered copy around in my laptop bag, it makes for quiet reading while waiting in line.[1] Just as with programming or martial arts, mastery comes through repetition of the basics. - Karsten [1] "whilst in queue" for the idiomatic-minded :) -- Karsten Wade, RHCE, Tech Writer this .signature subject to random changes http://people.redhat.com/kwade/ gpg fingerprint: 2680 DBFD D968 3141 0115 5F1B D992 0E06 AD0E 0C41 From paul at frields.com Sun Jun 27 02:20:43 2004 From: paul at frields.com (Paul W. Frields) Date: Sat, 26 Jun 2004 22:20:43 -0400 Subject: eos-guide-en-0.1 Message-ID: <1088302843.7926.16.camel@bettie.internal.frields.org> You can find the tarball for this document, if interested, at: http://docs.frields.org/ I've formatted it as a DocBook XML book rather than an article since I felt the size and derivation warranted that treatment. I wrote a small, probably self-indulgent, and definitely unnecessary foreword, addressing the purpose of the book, and the changes that will be made. Note the foreword talks about them in the past tense, whereas I haven't actually started the content portion yet. I intend to change the content to include examples from real Linux documentation to make the book more on-point with the FDP. I'm considering possibly removing the minor personalization I've done, and "freezing" that copy for public distribution, also under the FDL, with a "pristine" text of the 1918 edition. This is only slightly complicated by the fact that before I came up with this idea, I made three or four very minor alterations in the text to correct outdated usage. Nevertheless, I can probably locate those portions and return them to their original state in a few hours of proofreading. I still have a sticky situation, though, which I have not been able to fully address, which is the treatment of the section numbering. I chose to assign the chapters roman numeral labels (I, II...) to match the original, and used sections so that I could manually number the rules as in the original text, with the numbering persisting across chapters, rather than mucking with awkward labeling like "III.2" caused by the chapter labels and the automatic formatting from (I assume) the various XSL and other widgets. (Don't shoot me please, I'm not a doc-tools expert, I just use 'em.) If anyone has comments, let me know, even if it's just to agree with the method I used. I tried to get the whole book as consistent as possible. At this point I've worked on it most of the day (and night) Friday and all day today, and have decided to take the day off tomorrow... at least until the bug hits again. Enjoy! -- Paul W. Frields, RHCE From sp at elte.hu Sun Jun 27 08:03:41 2004 From: sp at elte.hu (Sulyok Peti) Date: Sun, 27 Jun 2004 10:03:41 +0200 Subject: eos-guide-en-0.1 In-Reply-To: <1088302843.7926.16.camel@bettie.internal.frields.org> References: <1088302843.7926.16.camel@bettie.internal.frields.org> Message-ID: <1088323421.2702.5.camel@sutty.mshome.net> 2004-06-27, v keltez?ssel 04:20-kor Paul W. Frields ezt ?rta: > You can find the tarball for this document, if interested, at: > > http://docs.frields.org/ > Why don't you publish those works in HTML? Regards, Peti -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: signature.asc Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 189 bytes Desc: Ez az ?zenetr?sz digit?lis al??r?ssal van ell?tva URL: From paul at frields.com Sun Jun 27 12:54:04 2004 From: paul at frields.com (Paul W. Frields) Date: Sun, 27 Jun 2004 08:54:04 -0400 Subject: eos-guide-en-0.1 In-Reply-To: <1088323421.2702.5.camel@sutty.mshome.net> References: <1088302843.7926.16.camel@bettie.internal.frields.org> <1088323421.2702.5.camel@sutty.mshome.net> Message-ID: <1088340844.16043.7.camel@bettie.internal.frields.org> On Sun, 2004-06-27 at 04:03, Sulyok Peti wrote: > Why don't you publish those works in HTML? All FDP work product is in DocBook XML, for ease of editing and consistency in rendering. The DocBook XML source can be made into HTML in a matter of seconds by first getting the fedora-docs distribution. See the Documentation Guide at: http://fedora.redhat.com/participate/documentation-guide/ch-getting-files.html Simply extract my tarball into the top-level "fedora-docs/" directory, do "cd eos-guide", and then "make" or "make html". My purpose in making the XML source available is that if someone finds a better way of doing the XML coding, or if he has suggestions that fit the purposes in my foreword, he can edit the XML source directly and send me a patch. If he does that in HTML, I have to go back and redo all the tagging again, which is inefficient. -- Paul W. Frields, RHCE From dpawson at nildram.co.uk Sun Jun 27 14:25:41 2004 From: dpawson at nildram.co.uk (Dave Pawson) Date: Sun, 27 Jun 2004 15:25:41 +0100 Subject: eos-guide-en-0.1 In-Reply-To: <1088302843.7926.16.camel@bettie.internal.frields.org> References: <1088302843.7926.16.camel@bettie.internal.frields.org> Message-ID: <6.1.0.6.2.20040627152306.02d87b60@pop3.gotadsl.co.uk> At 03:20 27/06/2004, Paul W. Frields wrote: >You can find the tarball for this document, if interested, at: > > http://docs.frields.org/ > >I've formatted it as a DocBook XML book rather than an article since I >felt the size and derivation warranted that treatment. Heck it is a book, hence book sounds like a good root element to me. >I'm considering possibly removing the minor personalization I've done, >and "freezing" that copy for public distribution, also under the FDL, >with a "pristine" text of the 1918 edition. Sounds good to me, with the book root element. > This is only slightly >complicated by the fact that before I came up with this idea, I made >three or four very minor alterations in the text to correct outdated >usage. Nevertheless, I can probably locate those portions and return >them to their original state in a few hours of proofreading. Probably right, to leave it 'as is'. >I still have a sticky situation, though, which I have not been able to >fully address, which is the treatment of the section numbering. Docbook xslt is fully customisable. If you want a custom layer, let me know what you want and it could be distributed with the book? regards DaveP From dpawson at nildram.co.uk Sun Jun 27 14:57:48 2004 From: dpawson at nildram.co.uk (Dave Pawson) Date: Sun, 27 Jun 2004 15:57:48 +0100 Subject: eos-guide-en-0.1 In-Reply-To: <1088302843.7926.16.camel@bettie.internal.frields.org> References: <1088302843.7926.16.camel@bettie.internal.frields.org> Message-ID: <6.1.0.6.2.20040627153259.02d8de30@pop3.gotadsl.co.uk> At 03:20 27/06/2004, Paul W. Frields wrote: >I still have a sticky situation, though, which I have not been able to >fully address, which is the treatment of the section numbering. I chose >to assign the chapters roman numeral labels (I, II...) to match the >original, and used sections so that I could manually number >the rules as in the original text, If you were not marking up to get the numbering, how would you have marked them up? > with the numbering persisting across >chapters, rather than mucking with awkward labeling like "III.2" caused >by the chapter labels and the automatic formatting from (I assume) the >various XSL and other widgets. With, say, a 'section' markup, a single template could be used to provide the cross document numbering. Tested by a sed, changing simplesect for section. You'll need to remove the manual numbering though, but that isn't part of the 'standard' you say? I keep my docbook stylesheets in /sgml/nw/docbook/ Adjust as necessary. This stylesheet modifies the bit needed, then imports all the standard docbook stuff. HTH DaveP 3 clear: both   From paul at frields.com Sun Jun 27 15:08:38 2004 From: paul at frields.com (Paul W. Frields) Date: Sun, 27 Jun 2004 11:08:38 -0400 Subject: eos-guide-en-0.1.1 In-Reply-To: <6.1.0.6.2.20040627153259.02d8de30@pop3.gotadsl.co.uk> References: <1088302843.7926.16.camel@bettie.internal.frields.org> <6.1.0.6.2.20040627153259.02d8de30@pop3.gotadsl.co.uk> Message-ID: <1088348918.16043.14.camel@bettie.internal.frields.org> Dave, thanks to your shove in the right direction. I think I found an appropriate answer. By simply tweaking "main-html.xsl" and changing the locations in the Makefile, I have a more self-contained book unit, and the numbering now works the way I want using the "label" parameter for the sections -- which I've returned to being containers. I simply changed: To instead reflect a "0", so now the chapter labels don't commute into the section labels. Now it looks good, and I can reduce the size of the HTML pages to one section per, which I prefer. I've put the new version (0.1.1) up at the same URL. I guess I needed someone to knock me over the head and tell me where to find the answer. Thanks! -- Paul W. Frields, RHCE From sp at elte.hu Sun Jun 27 19:07:04 2004 From: sp at elte.hu (Sulyok Peti) Date: Sun, 27 Jun 2004 21:07:04 +0200 Subject: eos-guide-en-0.1 In-Reply-To: <1088340844.16043.7.camel@bettie.internal.frields.org> References: <1088302843.7926.16.camel@bettie.internal.frields.org> <1088323421.2702.5.camel@sutty.mshome.net> <1088340844.16043.7.camel@bettie.internal.frields.org> Message-ID: <1088363223.5904.24.camel@sutty.mshome.net> 2004-06-27, v keltez?ssel 14:54-kor Paul W. Frields ezt ?rta: > On Sun, 2004-06-27 at 04:03, Sulyok Peti wrote: > > Why don't you publish those works in HTML? > > All FDP work product is in DocBook XML, for ease of editing and > consistency in rendering. The DocBook XML source can be made into HTML > in a matter of seconds by first getting the fedora-docs distribution. > See the Documentation Guide at: > > http://fedora.redhat.com/participate/documentation-guide/ch-getting-files.html > > Simply extract my tarball into the top-level "fedora-docs/" directory, > do "cd eos-guide", and then "make" or "make html". > > My purpose in making the XML source available is that if someone finds a > better way of doing the XML coding, or if he has suggestions that fit > the purposes in my foreword, he can edit the XML source directly and > send me a patch. If he does that in HTML, I have to go back and redo all > the tagging again, which is inefficient. > > -- > Paul W. Frields, RHCE > I know. I just would like to suggest publishing, because I think it is better if the user can find the doc via Google, and he/she can read it with a browser. It is more convenient to read the current docs in the Internet, and when someone has notices, suggestions, etc. he/she can edit the source file and send you a patch. Regards, Peti -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: signature.asc Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 189 bytes Desc: Ez az ?zenetr?sz digit?lis al??r?ssal van ell?tva URL: From paul at frields.com Mon Jun 28 00:08:51 2004 From: paul at frields.com (Paul W. Frields) Date: Sun, 27 Jun 2004 20:08:51 -0400 Subject: eos-guide-en-0.1 In-Reply-To: <1088363223.5904.24.camel@sutty.mshome.net> References: <1088302843.7926.16.camel@bettie.internal.frields.org> <1088323421.2702.5.camel@sutty.mshome.net> <1088340844.16043.7.camel@bettie.internal.frields.org> <1088363223.5904.24.camel@sutty.mshome.net> Message-ID: <1088381331.18250.4.camel@bettie.internal.frields.org> On Sun, 2004-06-27 at 15:07, Sulyok Peti wrote: > I know. I just would like to suggest publishing, because I think it is > better if the user can find the doc via Google, and he/she can read it > with a browser. It is more convenient to read the current docs in the > Internet, and when someone has notices, suggestions, etc. he/she can > edit the source file and send you a patch. My understanding is the FDP might want to include this document in the "official" stuff, so it will be found (and searchable) there, once it's finalized -- I hope! I don't have the bandwidth to host it myself (cable modem), so I would really prefer not to have more than an extremely small segment of the world looking for my copy just yet. :-) Until it's finished, fedora-docs people are welcome to rip it apart as desired. -- Paul W. Frields, RHCE From sp at elte.hu Mon Jun 28 06:39:31 2004 From: sp at elte.hu (Sulyok Peti) Date: Mon, 28 Jun 2004 08:39:31 +0200 Subject: eos-guide-en-0.1 In-Reply-To: <1088381331.18250.4.camel@bettie.internal.frields.org> References: <1088302843.7926.16.camel@bettie.internal.frields.org> <1088323421.2702.5.camel@sutty.mshome.net> <1088340844.16043.7.camel@bettie.internal.frields.org> <1088363223.5904.24.camel@sutty.mshome.net> <1088381331.18250.4.camel@bettie.internal.frields.org> Message-ID: <1088404770.2690.6.camel@sutty.mshome.net> 2004-06-28, h keltez?ssel 02:08-kor Paul W. Frields ezt ?rta: > On Sun, 2004-06-27 at 15:07, Sulyok Peti wrote: > > I know. I just would like to suggest publishing, because I think it is > > better if the user can find the doc via Google, and he/she can read it > > with a browser. It is more convenient to read the current docs in the > > Internet, and when someone has notices, suggestions, etc. he/she can > > edit the source file and send you a patch. > > My understanding is the FDP might want to include this document in the > "official" stuff, so it will be found (and searchable) there, once it's > finalized -- I hope! I don't have the bandwidth to host it myself (cable > modem), so I would really prefer not to have more than an extremely > small segment of the world looking for my copy just yet. :-) Until it's > finished, fedora-docs people are welcome to rip it apart as desired. > Does anybody have some bandwidth for hosting Fedora Docs until an official site is set up? Regards, Peti -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: signature.asc Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 189 bytes Desc: Ez az ?zenetr?sz digit?lis al??r?ssal van ell?tva URL: From daniel.gorst at easylife.co.uk Mon Jun 28 08:55:18 2004 From: daniel.gorst at easylife.co.uk (Daniel Gorst) Date: Mon, 28 Jun 2004 09:55:18 +0100 Subject: Mini-ITX Message-ID: Hello everyone, I've just installed Fedora (core 1) on a Via EPIA-M6000 motherboard with the C3 processor but I'm having difficulty installing the onboard graphics drivers supplied on the drivers disk. Using the VESA standard works but very slowly :( I would be interested to hear if anyone's had any joy installing the drivers on the same motherboard and if so where they found them. Thanks in advance, Dan -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From paul at frields.com Mon Jun 28 11:33:42 2004 From: paul at frields.com (Paul W. Frields) Date: Mon, 28 Jun 2004 07:33:42 -0400 Subject: Mini-ITX In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <1088422422.2352.1.camel@berlin.east.gov> On Mon, 2004-06-28 at 04:55, Daniel Gorst wrote: > I've just installed Fedora (core 1) on a Via EPIA-M6000 motherboard > with the C3 processor but I'm having difficulty installing the onboard > graphics drivers supplied on the drivers disk. Using the VESA standard > works but very slowly :( > > I would be interested to hear if anyone's had any joy installing the > drivers on the same motherboard and if so where they found them. Hi Dan, Unfortunately you've reached the wrong list. You want to join fedora-list, which is for technical discussion. This is the fedora-docs-list, which is for discussion of Fedora documentation only. Check the archives for fedora-list, and if you don't find an answer there, post your question to that list. Good luck and best wishes. -- Paul W. Frields, RHCE From dpawson at nildram.co.uk Mon Jun 28 18:07:42 2004 From: dpawson at nildram.co.uk (Dave Pawson) Date: Mon, 28 Jun 2004 19:07:42 +0100 Subject: eos-guide-en-0.1 In-Reply-To: <1088404770.2690.6.camel@sutty.mshome.net> References: <1088302843.7926.16.camel@bettie.internal.frields.org> <1088323421.2702.5.camel@sutty.mshome.net> <1088340844.16043.7.camel@bettie.internal.frields.org> <1088363223.5904.24.camel@sutty.mshome.net> <1088381331.18250.4.camel@bettie.internal.frields.org> <1088404770.2690.6.camel@sutty.mshome.net> Message-ID: <6.1.0.6.2.20040628190641.02dcd008@pop3.gotadsl.co.uk> At 07:39 28/06/2004, Sulyok Peti wrote: >Does anybody have some bandwidth for hosting Fedora Docs until an >official site is set up? I *could*, but as Paul says, till he's happy with it, why not leave it be? Then perhaps a permanent home could be found for it. regards DaveP From sp at elte.hu Mon Jun 28 22:09:22 2004 From: sp at elte.hu (Sulyok Peti) Date: Tue, 29 Jun 2004 00:09:22 +0200 Subject: eos-guide-en-0.1 In-Reply-To: <6.1.0.6.2.20040628190641.02dcd008@pop3.gotadsl.co.uk> References: <1088302843.7926.16.camel@bettie.internal.frields.org> <1088323421.2702.5.camel@sutty.mshome.net> <1088340844.16043.7.camel@bettie.internal.frields.org> <1088363223.5904.24.camel@sutty.mshome.net> <1088381331.18250.4.camel@bettie.internal.frields.org> <1088404770.2690.6.camel@sutty.mshome.net> <6.1.0.6.2.20040628190641.02dcd008@pop3.gotadsl.co.uk> Message-ID: <1088460561.5883.13.camel@sutty.mshome.net> 2004-06-28, h keltez?ssel 20:07-kor Dave Pawson ezt ?rta: > At 07:39 28/06/2004, Sulyok Peti wrote: > > >Does anybody have some bandwidth for hosting Fedora Docs until an > >official site is set up? > > I *could*, but as Paul says, till he's happy with it, > why not leave it be? > Then perhaps a permanent home could be found for it. People might be happy to see it on the Web. You may see the stats of my doc at http://stats.caesar.elte.hu/output/sp.web.elte.hu/2004/ to get some idea on whether people require docs on the Web, or they do not. Otherwise I think it would be useful to measure the success of our docs in such a way. Regards, Peti -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: signature.asc Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 189 bytes Desc: Ez az ?zenetr?sz digit?lis al??r?ssal van ell?tva URL: From redwire at therockmere.com Mon Jun 28 21:27:38 2004 From: redwire at therockmere.com (redwire at therockmere.com) Date: Mon, 28 Jun 2004 17:27:38 -0400 (EDT) Subject: Bandwidth Message-ID: <5255.151.201.13.12.1088458058.squirrel@TheRockmere.com> Please provide Specs on Server Space, Bandwidth and usage. I maybe able to help. Brad P.S. Sorry, this maybe out of thread. I have the Fedora list digested to me. From redwire at therockmere.com Mon Jun 28 22:17:02 2004 From: redwire at therockmere.com (redwire at therockmere.com) Date: Mon, 28 Jun 2004 18:17:02 -0400 (EDT) Subject: Permission Denied Message-ID: <5788.151.201.13.12.1088461022.squirrel@TheRockmere.com> I got into the CVS to checkout the docs. But, I keep getting this error:: cvs server: warning: cannot write to history file /usr/local/CVS/CVSROOT/history I made a folder CVSROOT and a file history, both with 777 permissions. Any suggestions? I'm walking back thru the docs, but would apprecitate any suggestions for resolution. thanks...Brad From sp at elte.hu Tue Jun 29 07:46:24 2004 From: sp at elte.hu (Sulyok Peti) Date: Tue, 29 Jun 2004 09:46:24 +0200 Subject: Bandwidth In-Reply-To: <5255.151.201.13.12.1088458058.squirrel@TheRockmere.com> References: <5255.151.201.13.12.1088458058.squirrel@TheRockmere.com> Message-ID: <1088495184.3420.41.camel@sutty.mshome.net> 2004-06-28, h keltez?ssel 23:27-kor redwire at therockmere.com ezt ?rta: > Please provide Specs on Server Space, Bandwidth and usage. I maybe able to > help. Some data from my stats (firewall-tutorial 3/4 of all traffic): Average successful requests per day: 31 * 3/4 ~ 24 Average successful requests for pages per day: 11 * 3/4 ~ 8 Average data transferred per day: 211.02 kilobytes * 3/4 ~ 158kB This is for one doc. There should be hundreds. Let's say 300. It is about 500 MB/day ~ 6 kB/s ~ 50 kbit/s. According to the hourly summary, the max. load is 3 times as heavy as the min. load. That means 25-75 kbit/s. Let's calculate with a safety factor of 7, because the sample is not representative, and the figures are not exact. So the necessary bandwidth is about 200-500 kbit/s. The needed space for 300 docs would be about 100 MB. Right now there may be about 10% of that amount, but we don't know when an official site is set up. Regards, Peti -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: signature.asc Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 189 bytes Desc: Ez az ?zenetr?sz digit?lis al??r?ssal van ell?tva URL: