From vladeck at sezampro.yu Fri Oct 1 02:24:54 2004 From: vladeck at sezampro.yu (Vladimir Djokic) Date: Fri, 01 Oct 2004 04:24:54 +0200 Subject: Look of Fedora docs In-Reply-To: <1096481882.6136.274.camel@localhost.localdomain> References: <1095724086.2633.6.camel@oxalis.delsystems.net> <1095724781.2696.10.camel@sarah.brisbane.redhat.com> <1095795429.6122.431.camel@jadefox.rdu.redhat.com> <1095804376.2260.0.camel@oxalis.delsystems.net> <1095858674.2509.3.camel@oxalis.delsystems.net> <1095864419.6125.30.camel@jadefox.rdu.redhat.com> <1096299038.8553.6.camel@bettie.internal.frields.org> <1096481882.6136.274.camel@localhost.localdomain> Message-ID: <415CBFF6.7080000@sezampro.yu> Tammy Fox wrote: >On Mon, 2004-09-27 at 11:30, Paul W. Frields wrote: > > >>On Wed, 2004-09-22 at 10:46, Tammy Fox wrote: >> >> >>>> quick mockups: >>>> http://www.gnome-ppp.org/fedora/docs/network-config-ethernet.html >>>> http://www.gnome-ppp.org/fedora/docs/network-config-ethernet-2.html >>>> >>>> they're allmost the same :) >>>> >>>> >>>I like them. They have a nice, clean look to them. I prefer the logo on >>>the left, but that is just my opinion. The top blue headerseems a little >>>big. I would like to see it smaller. I would also prefer the Fedora >>>Project logo instead of the Fedora Core logo since we might get into >>>documenting software in Fedora Extras or Fedora Legacy. >>> >>>On the Fedora website, we already have a header with a logo, so we would >>>want to use a slightly different css to not add the blue header to them. >>> >>>Just to make sure, did you create the icons or borrow them from >>>somewhere else? If you borrowed them, we need to make sure they are >>>under the GPL. I would prefer to have ones made specifically for the >>>Fedora docs. >>> >>>Also, it looks like you mocked up a page of the help that is included in >>>one of our configuration tools. Since those tools are shipped in both >>>Fedora and RHEL, we might want to do away with the Fedora logo in the >>>CSS for the config tools help inside the tool so the developer doesn't >>>have to make sure the right logo is included for whatever OS he is >>>building the package for. >>> >>> >>I agree with Tammy with one change -- I would prefer to see the >>navigation icons (arrows) match the ones used in Bluecurve, instead of >>using a different set of arrows. >> >>-- >>Paul W. Frields, RHCE >> >> >> > >Sure. We could do that. It would definitely fit into the style of the >website. Garrett doesn't work at Red Hat anymore, but I have most of his >source files. The trick is finding the right ones and sizing them >properly. I'll add it to my list of things to do but as a low priority >because we have big news coming out about the magazine soon. ;-) Sorry I >can't share just yet... > >Tammy > > > i'll do some mockups, soon. haven't been online for a few days... bye, vladeck. From robilad at kaffe.org Fri Oct 1 09:40:54 2004 From: robilad at kaffe.org (Dalibor Topic) Date: Fri, 1 Oct 2004 09:40:54 +0000 (UTC) Subject: pdf toolchain notes & suggestions References: <4153200D.9010508@redhat.com> <1096526044.506.104.camel@erato.phig.org> Message-ID: Karsten Wade redhat.com> writes: > You might think it is preferable to use what has been invented at Red > Hat, where the resources exist for gcj work. It is not preferable. We > all want things to be interoperable and open. Knowing that we can swap > virtual machines means people get to make their own choice about free > notJavaVMs. Most of the free runtimes now largely pool together in the development of the class library by contributing to GNU Classpath, a free as in 'free software' implementation of the core java class libraries. You are not tied to the mercy of a single project: there is a whole ecosystem of runtimes targetting different needs, all willing to help their users, in my experience. > For the same reason, perhaps we can (at least) share testing data and > results with Debian people tackling the same issues. It would _rock_ if > we could get FOP to do everything well in all free scenarios. Russ Burton, Arnaud Vandyck & Danniel Bonniot are the debian people that are actively using or packaging fop on free runtimes there. I will contact them. > Perhaps an informal sub-committee? Just people interested in the topic, > keep part of the conversation, and volunteer. Sounds good to me. > What's next? > > Ideas: > > * Get a new sub-project into CVS (fedora-docs/toolchain? or somesuch > name). Tammy, Mark, and I can commit into this for now, acting as > conduits for changes from the rest of the project. > > * We need > ** Someone from kaffe Count me in. > ** Someone from gcj Mark Wielaard could probably recommend someone. > ** A willing FOP expert (either one who knows the code and use, or a > coder and an expert user) I'll get in touch with FOP developers. > ** A Debian liaison I'll try to find someone from Debian's Java side to participate. > Just some ideas. I really do mean, "What's next?" I'd also recommend getting in touch with the Java side of fedora, to see what their FOP packaging plans and requirements are. I believe that Thomas Fitzsimmons and Fernando Nasser are working on making JPackage work with gcj, they may be able to comment. cheers, dalibor topic From s.ellis at fastmail.co.uk Fri Oct 1 11:47:54 2004 From: s.ellis at fastmail.co.uk (Stuart Ellis) Date: Fri, 01 Oct 2004 12:47:54 +0100 Subject: Installation types Message-ID: <1096631274.27364.205436487@webmail.messagingengine.com> Just to see if anyone can shed some light on this... I'm looking at the Installation Types section of the Guide, and both the installation system and the documentation for RH9 imply that the Installation Type determines the default partition layout. At the moment every type has the same default partition layout (100Mb /boot partition, swap of 2x RAM, the rest in /), so the Installation Type only controls the default package group selections. Is the concept of varying the partition layout by Type something that is expected to occur in future versions, or are references to it traces of an idea that died at some point ? -- Stuart Ellis s.ellis at fastmail.co.uk From paul at frields.com Fri Oct 1 12:59:47 2004 From: paul at frields.com (Paul W. Frields) Date: Fri, 01 Oct 2004 08:59:47 -0400 Subject: Installation types In-Reply-To: <1096631274.27364.205436487@webmail.messagingengine.com> References: <1096631274.27364.205436487@webmail.messagingengine.com> Message-ID: <1096635587.2306.20.camel@berlin.east.gov> On Fri, 2004-10-01 at 07:47, Stuart Ellis wrote: > Just to see if anyone can shed some light on this... > > I'm looking at the Installation Types section of the Guide, and both the > installation system and the documentation for RH9 imply that the > Installation Type determines the default partition layout. At the > moment every type has the same default partition layout (100Mb /boot > partition, swap of 2x RAM, the rest in /), so the Installation Type only > controls the default package group selections. Is the concept of > varying the partition layout by Type something that is expected to occur > in future versions, or are references to it traces of an idea that died > at some point ? Stuart, I'm not sure what the future of that particular issue is, but I remember a time in the Red Hat Linux days when the partition layout *did* change depending on the installation type, and I assume it could conceivably be that way in the future. This may be a subject you should direct to the anaconda-devel list, to get input from the developers themselves. Does anyone else have a suggestion? -- Paul W. Frields, RHCE From s.ellis at fastmail.co.uk Fri Oct 1 13:25:15 2004 From: s.ellis at fastmail.co.uk (Stuart Ellis) Date: Fri, 01 Oct 2004 14:25:15 +0100 Subject: Installation types In-Reply-To: <1096635587.2306.20.camel@berlin.east.gov> References: <1096631274.27364.205436487@webmail.messagingengine.com> <1096635587.2306.20.camel@berlin.east.gov> Message-ID: <1096637115.2326.205561643@webmail.messagingengine.com> > Stuart, I'm not sure what the future of that particular issue is, but I > remember a time in the Red Hat Linux days when the partition layout > *did* change depending on the installation type, and I assume it could > conceivably be that way in the future. This may be a subject you should > direct to the anaconda-devel list, to get input from the developers > themselves. Does anyone else have a suggestion? > > -- > Paul W. Frields, RHCE > I remember this as well, which is why I'm a bit puzzled. On the other hand I didn't use RH8 or RH9 at all, and it's possible that I've just missed something that changed along the way. So I thought I'd post here first in case it was a documented change or well-known issue. -- Stuart Ellis s.ellis at fastmail.co.uk From tfox at redhat.com Fri Oct 1 16:25:18 2004 From: tfox at redhat.com (Tammy Fox) Date: Fri, 01 Oct 2004 12:25:18 -0400 Subject: Installation types In-Reply-To: <1096637115.2326.205561643@webmail.messagingengine.com> References: <1096631274.27364.205436487@webmail.messagingengine.com> <1096635587.2306.20.camel@berlin.east.gov> <1096637115.2326.205561643@webmail.messagingengine.com> Message-ID: <1096647918.6135.87.camel@jadefox.rdu.redhat.com> On Fri, 2004-10-01 at 09:25, Stuart Ellis wrote: > > Stuart, I'm not sure what the future of that particular issue is, but I > > remember a time in the Red Hat Linux days when the partition layout > > *did* change depending on the installation type, and I assume it could > > conceivably be that way in the future. This may be a subject you should > > direct to the anaconda-devel list, to get input from the developers > > themselves. Does anyone else have a suggestion? > > > > -- > > Paul W. Frields, RHCE > > > > I remember this as well, which is why I'm a bit puzzled. On the other > hand I didn't use RH8 or RH9 at all, and it's possible that I've just > missed something that changed along the way. So I thought I'd post here > first in case it was a documented change or well-known issue. > -- > Stuart Ellis s.ellis at fastmail.co.uk Yes. That used to be the case in RHL. Let me ask around and see if I can find out what it is supposed to do now. I'll get back to you. Tammy From tfox at redhat.com Fri Oct 1 18:23:29 2004 From: tfox at redhat.com (Tammy Fox) Date: Fri, 01 Oct 2004 14:23:29 -0400 Subject: Installation types In-Reply-To: <1096647918.6135.87.camel@jadefox.rdu.redhat.com> References: <1096631274.27364.205436487@webmail.messagingengine.com> <1096635587.2306.20.camel@berlin.east.gov> <1096637115.2326.205561643@webmail.messagingengine.com> <1096647918.6135.87.camel@jadefox.rdu.redhat.com> Message-ID: <1096655009.6135.209.camel@jadefox.rdu.redhat.com> On Fri, 2004-10-01 at 12:25, Tammy Fox wrote: > On Fri, 2004-10-01 at 09:25, Stuart Ellis wrote: > > > Stuart, I'm not sure what the future of that particular issue is, but I > > > remember a time in the Red Hat Linux days when the partition layout > > > *did* change depending on the installation type, and I assume it could > > > conceivably be that way in the future. This may be a subject you should > > > direct to the anaconda-devel list, to get input from the developers > > > themselves. Does anyone else have a suggestion? > > > > > > -- > > > Paul W. Frields, RHCE > > > > > > > I remember this as well, which is why I'm a bit puzzled. On the other > > hand I didn't use RH8 or RH9 at all, and it's possible that I've just > > missed something that changed along the way. So I thought I'd post here > > first in case it was a documented change or well-known issue. > > -- > > Stuart Ellis > s.ellis at fastmail.co.uk > > Yes. That used to be the case in RHL. Let me ask around and see if I can > find out what it is supposed to do now. I'll get back to you. > > Tammy I just confirmed with Jeremy Katz that the partitions created are the same for all installation types. So, we can remove that phrase from the IG. Tammy From paul at frields.com Fri Oct 1 21:53:31 2004 From: paul at frields.com (Paul W. Frields) Date: Fri, 01 Oct 2004 17:53:31 -0400 Subject: Build problems Message-ID: <1096667611.6711.22.camel@bettie.internal.frields.org> I am having spurious errors in xmlto when I build. I don't recall seeing these before today but it's been a while since I did any building: 8< - - - [paul at bettie usb-hotplug-tutorial]$ make Writing ln-legalnotice.html for legalnotice(legalnotice) Writing s1-summary.html for sect1(s1-summary) Writing s1-hotplug-files.html for sect1(s1-hotplug-files) Writing s1-updfstab-files.html for sect1(s1-updfstab-files) Writing s1-pam.html for sect1(s1-pam) Writing s1-run-updfstab.html for sect1(s1-run-updfstab) Writing s1-references.html for sect1(s1-references) Writing index.html for article(usb-hotplug-tutorial) /usr/bin/xmlto: line 379: 7068 Segmentation fault xsltproc $XSLTOPTS -o "$XSLT_PROCESSED" "$STYLESHEET" "$INPUT_FILE" - - - >8 Doing an immediate "make" again fails: 8< - - - [paul at bettie usb-hotplug-tutorial]$ make /usr/bin/xmlto: line 379: 7106 Segmentation fault xsltproc $XSLTOPTS -o "$XSLT_PROCESSED" "$STYLESHEET" "$INPUT_FILE" cp: cannot stat `*': No such file or directory make: *** [html] Error 1 - - - >8 The Makefile is completely benign, and looks just like the one for example-tutorial, with the exception of the name. I then ran the xmlto process in a debugging shell for good measure, but it didn't clue me into anything additional (which is not to say that it didn't have anything to offer, given my relative density). ;-) I guess the above means that xsltproc is at fault somehow, but I think debugging it may be beyond my meager skills. I am running FC2 with all updates released to date (incl. libxslt-1.1.5-1). Can anyone help? -- Paul W. Frields, RHCE From paul at frields.com Fri Oct 1 21:58:14 2004 From: paul at frields.com (Paul W. Frields) Date: Fri, 01 Oct 2004 17:58:14 -0400 Subject: Build problems In-Reply-To: <1096667611.6711.22.camel@bettie.internal.frields.org> References: <1096667611.6711.22.camel@bettie.internal.frields.org> Message-ID: <1096667894.8485.1.camel@bettie.internal.frields.org> On Fri, 2004-10-01 at 17:53, Paul W. Frields wrote: > I am having spurious errors in xmlto when I build. I don't recall seeing > these before today but it's been a while since I did any building: [...snip...] Beg everyone's pardon... the word "spurious" is wrong; apparently I should have said "consistent"! :-) Er, I mean :-( -- Paul W. Frields, RHCE From tuxxer at cox.net Fri Oct 1 22:45:17 2004 From: tuxxer at cox.net (tuxxer) Date: Fri, 01 Oct 2004 22:45:17 +0000 Subject: Bug #129957 Update (Fedora Hardening) Message-ID: <1096670716.25130.21.camel@bach> Text from bug update: Here's the Intro and Chapter 1. If you reference the outline I posted a while ago, you'll notice that kernel hardening is supposed to be chapter 2. Since that doc is still in the works, I'm going to jump right into chapter 3, and if I can assist on the Kernel Compilation doc, I will. Will post more as it is available. Link to bug: http://bugzilla.redhat.com/bugzilla/show_bug.cgi?id=129957 I think that the kernel compilation doc should be referenced in this doc, but I'm not sure that it should be the only text on the subject. I envision the reference to be for people who don't know how to compile/recompile a kernel, and my Chapter 2, will discuss things that can be included or left out to make the system more secure (for example, a discussion of building the kernel without modules). Perhaps the kernel compilation doc should cross reference this section of my doc? Anyhow, in the meantime, I will continue on with Chapter 3: Securing the Filesystem. An html view of the doc, as well as ongoing developments (in html format), will still be available at the link below. Please provide direct feedback, criticisms, praise, jeers, etc. to the list, or my email off-list, if desired. http://members.cox.net/tuxxer Thanks. -Charlie -- -- tuxxer <== tuxxer's gpg key fingerprint ==> 57EB F948 76AE 25BC E340 EFA9 FAF6 E1AC F1E1 1EA1 -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: signature.asc Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 189 bytes Desc: This is a digitally signed message part URL: From paul at frields.com Sat Oct 2 13:21:45 2004 From: paul at frields.com (Paul W. Frields) Date: Sat, 02 Oct 2004 09:21:45 -0400 Subject: Bug #129957 Update (Fedora Hardening) In-Reply-To: <1096670716.25130.21.camel@bach> References: <1096670716.25130.21.camel@bach> Message-ID: <1096723305.14522.7.camel@bettie.internal.frields.org> On Fri, 2004-10-01 at 18:45, tuxxer wrote: [...snip...] > An html view of the doc, as well as ongoing developments (in html > format), will still be available at the link below. Please provide > direct feedback, criticisms, praise, jeers, etc. to the list, or my > email off-list, if desired. > > http://members.cox.net/tuxxer Hi Charlie, you may want to change the bottom example in Section 2.1. The way I read it, you are doing 64 (!!!) complete traversals of the file system to find these files, when only one is necessary. Try removing the "for" loops and doing instead: find / -perm +002 | tee -a world-writable-files.txt Keep in mind that this list will include a lot of /dev entries that don't really indicate a problem (tty's and such), not to mention links. You might want to declare that you do not want to look at block or character special devices, or links, and just regular files and directories. Although it's conceivable one might miss something glaring, system hardening should probably be done before one is connected to the Internet, and right after installation, so it's unlikely that skipping these files would expose you to much risk. find / \( -type d -o -type f \) -perm +002 | tee -a world-writable.txt -- Paul W. Frields, RHCE From tuxxer at cox.net Sat Oct 2 16:12:42 2004 From: tuxxer at cox.net (tuxxer) Date: Sat, 02 Oct 2004 16:12:42 +0000 Subject: Bug #129957 Update (Fedora Hardening) In-Reply-To: <1096723305.14522.7.camel@bettie.internal.frields.org> References: <1096670716.25130.21.camel@bach> <1096723305.14522.7.camel@bettie.internal.frields.org> Message-ID: <1096733562.25130.29.camel@bach> On Sat, 2004-10-02 at 13:21, Paul W. Frields wrote: > On Fri, 2004-10-01 at 18:45, tuxxer wrote: > [...snip...] > > An html view of the doc, as well as ongoing developments (in html > > format), will still be available at the link below. Please provide > > direct feedback, criticisms, praise, jeers, etc. to the list, or my > > email off-list, if desired. > > > > http://members.cox.net/tuxxer > > Hi Charlie, you may want to change the bottom example in Section 2.1. > The way I read it, you are doing 64 (!!!) complete traversals of the > file system to find these files, when only one is necessary. Try > removing the "for" loops and doing instead: > > find / -perm +002 | tee -a world-writable-files.txt > > Keep in mind that this list will include a lot of /dev entries that > don't really indicate a problem (tty's and such), not to mention links. > You might want to declare that you do not want to look at block or > character special devices, or links, and just regular files and > directories. Although it's conceivable one might miss something glaring, > system hardening should probably be done before one is connected to the > Internet, and right after installation, so it's unlikely that skipping > these files would expose you to much risk. > > find / \( -type d -o -type f \) -perm +002 | tee -a world-writable.txt > > -- > Paul W. Frields, RHCE Much more elegant, and quite effective. Thanks. I've updated it in the html draft at http://members.cox.net/tuxxer, but I'm not going to submit a new tarball until I have more of Chapter 3 done (or completely done). Also, it was pointed out that I missed a step when uploading the tarball to the bug. I didn't select the MIME type. So, if you have any issues, the file is a gzipped-tarball in *.tgz format. Sorry, I'll get it next time. ;-) -Charlie -- -- tuxxer <== tuxxer's gpg key fingerprint ==> 57EB F948 76AE 25BC E340 EFA9 FAF6 E1AC F1E1 1EA1 -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: signature.asc Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 189 bytes Desc: This is a digitally signed message part URL: From s.ellis at fastmail.co.uk Sun Oct 3 19:12:16 2004 From: s.ellis at fastmail.co.uk (Stuart Ellis) Date: Sun, 03 Oct 2004 20:12:16 +0100 Subject: Installation types In-Reply-To: <1096655009.6135.209.camel@jadefox.rdu.redhat.com> References: <1096631274.27364.205436487@webmail.messagingengine.com> <1096635587.2306.20.camel@berlin.east.gov> <1096637115.2326.205561643@webmail.messagingengine.com> <1096647918.6135.87.camel@jadefox.rdu.redhat.com> <1096655009.6135.209.camel@jadefox.rdu.redhat.com> Message-ID: <1096830736.17187.205665749@webmail.messagingengine.com> On Fri, 01 Oct 2004 14:23:29 -0400, "Tammy Fox" said: > I just confirmed with Jeremy Katz that the partitions created are the > same for all installation types. So, we can remove that phrase from the > IG. > > Tammy OK, thanks. I've now attached a draft Installation Types chapter to the tracking bug that talks about them strictly as software sets. There is also a separate attachment on the Default Partition Scheme; this is from an earlier draft I did and may still be useful in some other section. -- Stuart Ellis s.ellis at fastmail.co.uk From pnasrat at redhat.com Mon Oct 4 10:36:52 2004 From: pnasrat at redhat.com (Paul Nasrat) Date: Mon, 04 Oct 2004 11:36:52 +0100 Subject: Build problems In-Reply-To: <1096667894.8485.1.camel@bettie.internal.frields.org> References: <1096667611.6711.22.camel@bettie.internal.frields.org> <1096667894.8485.1.camel@bettie.internal.frields.org> Message-ID: <1096886212.3928.4.camel@anu.eridu> On Fri, 2004-10-01 at 17:58 -0400, Paul W. Frields wrote: > On Fri, 2004-10-01 at 17:53, Paul W. Frields wrote: > > I am having spurious errors in xmlto when I build. I don't recall seeing > > these before today but it's been a while since I did any building: > [...snip...] > > Beg everyone's pardon... the word "spurious" is wrong; apparently I > should have said "consistent"! :-) Er, I mean :-( Install libxslt-debuginfo, libxml-debuginfo and glibc-debuginfo for your appropriate versions of packages - ulimit -c unlimited rerun failing make Should get a core dump core.XXXXX (a PID) in the current working dir. script gdb.out gdb /usr/bin/xsltproc -c core.XXXX bt exit Ctrl-D then create a bugzilla report against libxslt attaching the backtrace. Standard bug reporting practices, etc... Paul From Groktor at gmail.com Mon Oct 4 13:13:57 2004 From: Groktor at gmail.com (H.T. Petter) Date: Mon, 4 Oct 2004 15:13:57 +0200 Subject: Problem with installing Fedora Message-ID: Dear people I have no idea if this is the right place for this question, but i have no idea where i should otherwise go to. I have been trying to install Fedora on an older computer (333MHz pentium 3 with 64 Mb of RAM) to use it as a server, but after installation and reboot i get a message that the OS is missing. Does anybody know what i should do to fix this, or where i could go to find an awnser? Naturally, if you need more info, i'd be more than happy to give it! Yours, Harm-Tido Petter From tfox at redhat.com Mon Oct 4 16:11:48 2004 From: tfox at redhat.com (Tammy Fox) Date: Mon, 04 Oct 2004 12:11:48 -0400 Subject: Problem with installing Fedora In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <1096906308.6143.95.camel@localhost.localdomain> Harm-Tido, This mailing list is for those writing documentation for the Fedora Project. To find installation help, please repost your message to fedora-list: http://www.redhat.com/mailman/listinfo/fedora-list Regards, Tammy On Mon, 2004-10-04 at 09:13, H.T. Petter wrote: > Dear people > > I have no idea if this is the right place for this question, but i > have no idea where i should otherwise go to. > > I have been trying to install Fedora on an older computer (333MHz > pentium 3 with 64 Mb of RAM) to use it as a server, but after > installation and reboot i get a message that the OS is missing. > > Does anybody know what i should do to fix this, or where i could go to > find an awnser? Naturally, if you need more info, i'd be more than > happy to give it! > > Yours, > Harm-Tido Petter From kevin.hobbs.1 at ohiou.edu Tue Oct 5 17:40:34 2004 From: kevin.hobbs.1 at ohiou.edu (Kevin H. Hobbs) Date: Tue, 05 Oct 2004 13:40:34 -0400 Subject: kernel-compilation-tutorial In-Reply-To: <1096395550.15076.94.camel@gargon.hooperlab> References: <1096390921.15076.88.camel@gargon.hooperlab> <1096395550.15076.94.camel@gargon.hooperlab> Message-ID: <1096998034.3644.5.camel@gargon.hooperlab> On Tue, 2004-09-28 at 14:19, Kevin H. Hobbs wrote: > I just hacked together what I understand form the flamewars. I am about > to try to follow my own instructions now and see if I'm even close. :-) > > Coments are absolutely welcome. I really have no idea what I'm doing. > > ______________________________________________________________________ > -- > fedora-docs-list mailing list > fedora-docs-list at redhat.com > To unsubscribe: > http://www.redhat.com/mailman/listinfo/fedora-docs-list I seem to have a half decent kernel compilation document done, at least as far as my needs are concerned. It works ( I'm running on my custom kernel) but I have no idea if it is the way one SHOULD build a custom kernel on Fedora. The document is on bugzilla: https://bugzilla.redhat.com/bugzilla/show_bug.cgi?id=130754 -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: signature.asc Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 189 bytes Desc: This is a digitally signed message part URL: From kevin.hobbs.1 at ohiou.edu Wed Oct 6 22:41:01 2004 From: kevin.hobbs.1 at ohiou.edu (Kevin H. Hobbs) Date: Wed, 06 Oct 2004 18:41:01 -0400 Subject: kernel-compilation-tutorial In-Reply-To: <1096557045.6133.23.camel@jadefox.rdu.redhat.com> References: <1096390921.15076.88.camel@gargon.hooperlab> <1096395550.15076.94.camel@gargon.hooperlab> <1096407980.10240.28.camel@bettie.internal.frields.org> <1096415098.22877.15.camel@dhcp024-208-178-227.columbus.rr.com> <1096557045.6133.23.camel@jadefox.rdu.redhat.com> Message-ID: <1097102461.8112.12.camel@dhcp024-208-178-227.columbus.rr.com> On Thu, 2004-09-30 at 11:10 -0400, Tammy Fox wrote: > On Tue, 2004-09-28 at 19:44, Kevin H. Hobbs wrote: > > On Tue, 2004-09-28 at 17:46 -0400, Paul W. Frields wrote: > > > On Tue, 2004-09-28 at 14:19, Kevin H. Hobbs wrote: > > > > I just hacked together what I understand form the flamewars. I am about > > > > to try to follow my own instructions now and see if I'm even close. :-) > > > > > > > > Coments are absolutely welcome. I really have no idea what I'm doing. > > > > > > Your work is welcome. A couple hints on how to proceed: > > > > > > 1. Check out the Quick Start Guide [1] for an easy to read intro to how > > > things [are supposed to] work with FDP. Especially important is the > > > section on what you as a writer should be doing other than just working > > > through the ideas. > > > > > > > Ya I read it, sigh. I was going to just make a text file but nooOOoo I > > get to learn how to make it all pretty. > > > > > 2. You might want to learn enough Emacs to make your DocBook XML editing > > > easier. I never knew more vi than I needed to get by, but learning the > > > same amount of Emacs wasn't any more difficult. The Docs Guide [2] has a > > > chapter on using psgml, but there's also nXML and psgmlx out there too. > > > > > > > gvim seems to be doing an ok job. It likes REALLY big indents but > > whatever. I'll give emacs another go though. > > > > > 3. You should include a better Introduction in your tutorial. Doing this > > > helps you get an idea of what you want to accomplish in the tutorial, > > > and also what you *don't* want to accomplish. That helps keep you on > > > point and prevents your document from spinning off-topic. > > > > I'll definitely want to flesh it out more for sure. I don't quite know > > enough to get too off topic. And the more people try to tell me to > > include stu > > > > > If you want an > > > example, I will humbly offer my mirror-tutorial as an example. My > > > current build is viewable at http://docs.frields.org -- you will find > > > other docs there that are not good examples, but the mirror-tutorial > > > follows guidelines we hashed out on the list previously. > > > > > > Thanks for participating! > > > > > > > > > [1] http://fedora.redhat.com/participate/documentation-quick-start/ > > > [2] http://fedora.redhat.com/participate/documentation-guide/ > > > -- > > > Paul W. Frields, RHCE > > > > > > I'll check those out for sure. > > > > ______________________________________________________________________ > Kevin, > > Thanks for writing this. It is a much needed tutorial. I moved the open > bug to block the docs in progress tracker instead. > > I co-authored an article in the first issue of Wide Open Magazine about > the 2.6 kernel, including how to recompile it. I'll compare your version > with mine and see if I can add to it. Please send me your latest version > if you have made any changes since the version you posted and I can send > you a patch. Or, if you prefer I can just list the changes in an email. > Let me know which you prefer. > > Cheers, > Tammy > > Tammy Sorry, I got behind on my e-mail. Paul Frields gave me some pointers, but I would appreciate any input available. I started this because all I could find was the flamewar. -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: signature.asc Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 189 bytes Desc: This is a digitally signed message part URL: From tuxxer at cox.net Wed Oct 6 17:21:34 2004 From: tuxxer at cox.net (tuxxer) Date: Wed, 06 Oct 2004 17:21:34 +0000 Subject: kernel-compilation-tutorial In-Reply-To: <1097102461.8112.12.camel@dhcp024-208-178-227.columbus.rr.com> References: <1096390921.15076.88.camel@gargon.hooperlab> <1096395550.15076.94.camel@gargon.hooperlab> <1096407980.10240.28.camel@bettie.internal.frields.org> <1096415098.22877.15.camel@dhcp024-208-178-227.columbus.rr.com> <1096557045.6133.23.camel@jadefox.rdu.redhat.com> <1097102461.8112.12.camel@dhcp024-208-178-227.columbus.rr.com> Message-ID: <1097083294.25130.31.camel@bach> On Wed, 2004-10-06 at 22:41, Kevin H. Hobbs wrote: > On Thu, 2004-09-30 at 11:10 -0400, Tammy Fox wrote: > > On Tue, 2004-09-28 at 19:44, Kevin H. Hobbs wrote: > > > On Tue, 2004-09-28 at 17:46 -0400, Paul W. Frields wrote: > > > > On Tue, 2004-09-28 at 14:19, Kevin H. Hobbs wrote: > > > > > I just hacked together what I understand form the flamewars. I am about > > > > > to try to follow my own instructions now and see if I'm even close. :-) > > > > > > > > > > Coments are absolutely welcome. I really have no idea what I'm doing. > > > > > > > > Your work is welcome. A couple hints on how to proceed: > > > > > > > > 1. Check out the Quick Start Guide [1] for an easy to read intro to how > > > > things [are supposed to] work with FDP. Especially important is the > > > > section on what you as a writer should be doing other than just working > > > > through the ideas. > > > > > > > > > > Ya I read it, sigh. I was going to just make a text file but nooOOoo I > > > get to learn how to make it all pretty. > > > > > > > 2. You might want to learn enough Emacs to make your DocBook XML editing > > > > easier. I never knew more vi than I needed to get by, but learning the > > > > same amount of Emacs wasn't any more difficult. The Docs Guide [2] has a > > > > chapter on using psgml, but there's also nXML and psgmlx out there too. > > > > > > > > > > gvim seems to be doing an ok job. It likes REALLY big indents but > > > whatever. I'll give emacs another go though. > > > > > > > 3. You should include a better Introduction in your tutorial. Doing this > > > > helps you get an idea of what you want to accomplish in the tutorial, > > > > and also what you *don't* want to accomplish. That helps keep you on > > > > point and prevents your document from spinning off-topic. > > > > > > I'll definitely want to flesh it out more for sure. I don't quite know > > > enough to get too off topic. And the more people try to tell me to > > > include stu > > > > > > > If you want an > > > > example, I will humbly offer my mirror-tutorial as an example. My > > > > current build is viewable at http://docs.frields.org -- you will find > > > > other docs there that are not good examples, but the mirror-tutorial > > > > follows guidelines we hashed out on the list previously. > > > > > > > > Thanks for participating! > > > > > > > > > > > > [1] http://fedora.redhat.com/participate/documentation-quick-start/ > > > > [2] http://fedora.redhat.com/participate/documentation-guide/ > > > > -- > > > > Paul W. Frields, RHCE > > > > > > > > > I'll check those out for sure. > > > > > > ______________________________________________________________________ > > Kevin, > > > > Thanks for writing this. It is a much needed tutorial. I moved the open > > bug to block the docs in progress tracker instead. > > > > I co-authored an article in the first issue of Wide Open Magazine about > > the 2.6 kernel, including how to recompile it. I'll compare your version > > with mine and see if I can add to it. Please send me your latest version > > if you have made any changes since the version you posted and I can send > > you a patch. Or, if you prefer I can just list the changes in an email. > > Let me know which you prefer. > > > > Cheers, > > Tammy > > > > Tammy > > > Sorry, I got behind on my e-mail. Paul Frields gave me some pointers, > but I would appreciate any input available. I started this because all > I could find was the flamewar. > > ______________________________________________________________________ > -- > fedora-docs-list mailing list > fedora-docs-list at redhat.com > To unsubscribe: > http://www.redhat.com/mailman/listinfo/fedora-docs-list Have you created a bug for what you have done already? Or, do you have it posted somewhere where it can be reviewed? -- -- tuxxer <== tuxxer's gpg key fingerprint ==> 57EB F948 76AE 25BC E340 EFA9 FAF6 E1AC F1E1 1EA1 -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: signature.asc Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 189 bytes Desc: This is a digitally signed message part URL: From paul at frields.com Thu Oct 7 02:25:53 2004 From: paul at frields.com (Paul W. Frields) Date: Wed, 06 Oct 2004 22:25:53 -0400 Subject: kernel-compilation-tutorial In-Reply-To: <1097083294.25130.31.camel@bach> References: <1096390921.15076.88.camel@gargon.hooperlab> <1096395550.15076.94.camel@gargon.hooperlab> <1096407980.10240.28.camel@bettie.internal.frields.org> <1096415098.22877.15.camel@dhcp024-208-178-227.columbus.rr.com> <1096557045.6133.23.camel@jadefox.rdu.redhat.com> <1097102461.8112.12.camel@dhcp024-208-178-227.columbus.rr.com> <1097083294.25130.31.camel@bach> Message-ID: <1097115953.2285.1.camel@bettie.internal.frields.org> > > Sorry, I got behind on my e-mail. Paul Frields gave me some pointers, > > but I would appreciate any input available. I started this because all > > I could find was the flamewar. > > > Have you created a bug for what you have done already? > > Or, do you have it posted somewhere where it can be reviewed? I don't have the bug # handy, but try searching the open fedora-docs bugs on Bugzilla. There aren't that many of them, so it's not hard to find, I'm sure. -- Paul W. Frields, RHCE From kevin.hobbs.1 at ohiou.edu Thu Oct 7 12:58:17 2004 From: kevin.hobbs.1 at ohiou.edu (Kevin H. Hobbs) Date: Thu, 07 Oct 2004 08:58:17 -0400 Subject: kernel-compilation-tutorial In-Reply-To: <1097083294.25130.31.camel@bach> References: <1096390921.15076.88.camel@gargon.hooperlab> <1096395550.15076.94.camel@gargon.hooperlab> <1096407980.10240.28.camel@bettie.internal.frields.org> <1096415098.22877.15.camel@dhcp024-208-178-227.columbus.rr.com> <1096557045.6133.23.camel@jadefox.rdu.redhat.com> <1097102461.8112.12.camel@dhcp024-208-178-227.columbus.rr.com> <1097083294.25130.31.camel@bach> Message-ID: <1097153897.5980.3.camel@gargon.hooperlab> On Wed, 2004-10-06 at 13:21, tuxxer wrote: [snip] > > Have you created a bug for what you have done already? > > Or, do you have it posted somewhere where it can be reviewed? Yes, the bugzilla entry is: http://bugzilla.redhat.com/bugzilla/show_bug.cgi?id=130754 -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: signature.asc Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 189 bytes Desc: This is a digitally signed message part URL: From mjohnson at redhat.com Thu Oct 7 19:29:57 2004 From: mjohnson at redhat.com (Mark Johnson) Date: Thu, 07 Oct 2004 15:29:57 -0400 Subject: pdf toolchain notes & suggestions In-Reply-To: <1096526044.506.104.camel@erato.phig.org> References: <4153200D.9010508@redhat.com> <1096526044.506.104.camel@erato.phig.org> Message-ID: <41659935.5060301@redhat.com> Karsten Wade wrote: > > Perhaps an informal sub-committee? Just people interested in the topic, > keep part of the conversation, and volunteer. Sounds good. I'll volunteer for this. > > What's next? > > Ideas: > > * Get a new sub-project into CVS (fedora-docs/toolchain? or somesuch > name). Tammy, Mark, and I can commit into this for now, acting as > conduits for changes from the rest of the project. > > * We need > ** Someone from kaffe > ** Someone from gcj > ** A willing FOP expert (either one who knows the code and use, or a > coder and an expert user) > ** A DocBook XML expert (or three) I'm willing to work on the xsl-fo customization, when we get there. > ** Volunteers willing to test parallel toolchains I'm also willing to test toolchains. > ** A Debian liaison If we can't get one of the Debian Java developers [1,2] (Arnaud Vandyck comes to mind), in the meantime I'm happy to volunteer to serve as the Debian liaison. I'm a Debian XML developer/packager/policy editor and packaged some of the java tools. (Whoops, I just read Dalibor's message - I'll leave the debian contacts to him.) [1] http://pkg-java.alioth.debian.org/ [2] http://alioth.debian.org/projects/pkg-java/ > ** ??? I'm willing to ask questions:) And supply asterisks. BTW, I noticed that the debian fop package info used to imply that fop would run under kaffe. Dalibor: do you know if this is the case? > Just some ideas. I really do mean, "What's next?" I think Dalibor laid out a pretty decent plan. Below I state his suggestions and add some of my own. A. Document the issues the debian java group has had getting fop to compile &/or run under gcj, and work with them (& other relevant groups/developers) to resolve outstanding issues. B. Determine if fop will run under kaffe, as an alternative C. Ask Mark Wielaard who he recommends as a gcj contact. > I'd also recommend getting in touch with the Java side of fedora, > to see what their FOP packaging plans and requirements are. I > believe that Thomas Fitzsimmons and Fernando Nasser are working on > making JPackage work with gcj, they may be able to comment. D. Either contact the JPackage folks via this list, or designate a liaison to initiate a dialog with them and report back to this list. Hopefully hook them up with the debian java group, so as to avoid duplicate efforts. E. Form a subcommittee to make A - D above happen. Cheers, Mark - -- ---------------------------------------------------------- Mark Johnson OS Product Documentation Engineering, Red Hat, Inc. Tel: 919.754.4151 Fax: 919.754.3708 GPG fp: DBEA FA3C C46A 70B5 F120 568B 89D5 4F61 C07D E242 From christian.huegel at redhatforum.net Fri Oct 8 17:07:10 2004 From: christian.huegel at redhatforum.net (Christian Huegel) Date: Fri, 08 Oct 2004 19:07:10 +0200 Subject: Different versions of docs?! Message-ID: <4166C93E.7070900@redhatforum.net> Hi everybody, i?ve just noticed a document on the official homepage ( http://fedora.redhat.com/docs/updates/) that was not written conform the Documentation Guide (http://fedora.redhat.com/participate/documentation-guide/) , it is slight different. Now, which one is the "right" one? This is confusing me.... Best regards, Christian From tuxxer at cox.net Sun Oct 10 19:37:55 2004 From: tuxxer at cox.net (tuxxer) Date: Sun, 10 Oct 2004 19:37:55 +0000 Subject: GCC w/ STackGuard? Message-ID: <1097437075.3148.2.camel@bach> Hey guys, I know this isn't really a Docs questions, but it's information going into a docs, and I thought that maybe some of the RH people here might know offhand. Is the GCC which ships with FC2 patched with StackGuard? If not, does StackGuard ship with FC2? Thanks. -Charlie -- -- tuxxer <== tuxxer's gpg key fingerprint ==> 57EB F948 76AE 25BC E340 EFA9 FAF6 E1AC F1E1 1EA1 -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: signature.asc Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 189 bytes Desc: This is a digitally signed message part URL: From nzanella at cs.mun.ca Mon Oct 11 02:37:08 2004 From: nzanella at cs.mun.ca (Neil Zanella) Date: Mon, 11 Oct 2004 00:07:08 -0230 (NDT) Subject: GCC w/ STackGuard? In-Reply-To: <1097437075.3148.2.camel@bach> Message-ID: Do you really need to use so much recursion as to have to protect yourself against the stack overflow? Why???? :-/ Regards, Neil (in a bad mood) On Sun, 10 Oct 2004, tuxxer wrote: > Hey guys, > > I know this isn't really a Docs questions, but it's information going > into a docs, and I thought that maybe some of the RH people here might > know offhand. > > Is the GCC which ships with FC2 patched with StackGuard? If not, does > StackGuard ship with FC2? > > Thanks. > -Charlie > > From rahulsundaram at yahoo.co.in Tue Oct 12 16:15:22 2004 From: rahulsundaram at yahoo.co.in (Rahul Sundaram) Date: Tue, 12 Oct 2004 09:15:22 -0700 (PDT) Subject: GCC w/ STackGuard? In-Reply-To: <1097437075.3148.2.camel@bach> Message-ID: <20041012161522.31148.qmail@web8508.mail.in.yahoo.com> --- tuxxer wrote: > Hey guys, > > I know this isn't really a Docs questions, but it's > information going > into a docs, and I thought that maybe some of the RH > people here might > know offhand. Please dont ask questions not relevant to the list. gcc doesnt have anything like stack protection other than what is enabled upstream with the possible exception of exec-shield regards Rahul Sundaram _______________________________ Do you Yahoo!? Declare Yourself - Register online to vote today! http://vote.yahoo.com From paul at frields.com Wed Oct 13 13:15:39 2004 From: paul at frields.com (Paul W. Frields) Date: Wed, 13 Oct 2004 09:15:39 -0400 Subject: Style chapter for documentation-guide Message-ID: <1097673339.2444.20.camel@berlin.east.gov> The first draft (*very* rough) is available in the Bugzilla entry for this topic: http://bugzilla.redhat.com/bugzilla/show_bug.cgi?id=130978 Also available in the bug is a patch for the documentation-guide-en.xml file to include the new docs-style-en.xml file in a build. Drawbacks I already recognize: - It is redundant in spots. In others, it is redundant as well. I purposely added in my ever-expanding "tips" section without regard to their duplicating material imported from the GDSG. I will whittle away at this problem, but am still looking for additional tips, "gotchas," and advice to both new and practiced writers. - It creates additional editing needs on the overall Docs Guide. Most importantly, front matter needs to be added to take care of GNU FDL requirements, since I am building off the GDSG. I haven't done this before and would appreciate assistance from someone who has. - The organizational structure may be confusing. If you have comments or suggestions, they're always appreciated. Originally my thoughts were that the structure would be something like this: 1. What style means and why it's important 2. General guide to writing technical docs 3. Grammar rules 4. Composition rules 5. Style FAQ (tips, etc.) Thanks in advance for your input, and I hope everyone has docs ideas percolating out there. :-) Cheers to all! -- Paul W. Frields, RHCE From paul at frields.com Wed Oct 13 13:17:49 2004 From: paul at frields.com (Paul W. Frields) Date: Wed, 13 Oct 2004 09:17:49 -0400 Subject: Progress report Message-ID: <1097673468.2444.24.camel@berlin.east.gov> The mirror-tutorial and the usb-hotplug-tutorial have been moved to block bug 129722 (publication tracker). I believe I have incorporated all suggested changes from my editor -- thanks, Karsten -- and they should be ready for final review. I think I followed the workflow correctly; if not, let the paddling commence! -- Paul W. Frields, RHCE From kwade at redhat.com Wed Oct 13 13:46:08 2004 From: kwade at redhat.com (Karsten Wade) Date: Wed, 13 Oct 2004 06:46:08 -0700 Subject: Progress report In-Reply-To: <1097673468.2444.24.camel@berlin.east.gov> References: <1097673468.2444.24.camel@berlin.east.gov> Message-ID: <1097675168.19737.7023.camel@erato.phig.org> On Wed, 2004-10-13 at 06:17, Paul W. Frields wrote: > The mirror-tutorial and the usb-hotplug-tutorial have been moved to > block bug 129722 (publication tracker). I believe I have incorporated > all suggested changes from my editor -- thanks, Karsten -- and they > should be ready for final review. I think I followed the workflow > correctly; if not, let the paddling commence! /me high-5s Paul If you messed up the workflow, do what I do - blame the docs! - Karsten -- Karsten Wade, RHCE, Tech Writer a lemon is just a melon in disguise http://people.redhat.com/kwade/ gpg fingerprint: 2680 DBFD D968 3141 0115 5F1B D992 0E06 AD0E 0C41 From paul at frields.com Wed Oct 13 16:44:16 2004 From: paul at frields.com (Paul W. Frields) Date: Wed, 13 Oct 2004 12:44:16 -0400 Subject: Style chapter for documentation-guide In-Reply-To: <1097673339.2444.20.camel@berlin.east.gov> References: <1097673339.2444.20.camel@berlin.east.gov> Message-ID: <1097685856.2444.34.camel@berlin.east.gov> Addendum, as far as current problems with the captioned chapter: - The markup chosen by GDSG is functional but ugly when rendered. I will try to remove the <*table> code and replace it with something less tabular in nature wherever possible. I like the elegant way our sections are now rendered, so I'll try to stick with that. -- Paul W. Frields, RHCE From sopwith at redhat.com Wed Oct 6 19:51:08 2004 From: sopwith at redhat.com (Elliot Lee) Date: Wed, 6 Oct 2004 15:51:08 -0400 Subject: Fedora Project Mailing Lists reminder Message-ID: This is a reminder of the mailing lists for the Fedora Project, and the purpose of each list. You can view this information at http://fedora.redhat.com/participate/communicate/ When you're using these mailing lists, please take the time to choose the one that is most appropriate to your post. If you don't know the right mailing list to use for a question or discussion, please contact me. This will help you get the best possible answer for your question, and keep other list subscribers happy! Mailing Lists Mailing lists are email addresses which send email to all users subscribed to the mailing list. Sending an email to a mailing list reaches all users interested in discussing a specific topic and users available to help other users with the topic. The following mailing lists are available. To subscribe, send email to -request at redhat.com (replace with the desired mailing list name such as fedora-list) with the word subscribe in the subject. fedora-announce-list - Announcements of changes and events. To stay aware of news, subscribe to this list. fedora-list - For users of releases. If you want help with a problem installing or using , this is the list for you. fedora-test-list - For testers of test releases. If you would like to discuss experiences using TEST releases, this is the list for you. fedora-devel-list - For developers, developers, developers. If you are interested in helping create releases, this is the list for you. fedora-docs-list - For participants of the docs project fedora-desktop-list - For discussions about desktop issues such as user interfaces, artwork, and usability fedora-config-list - For discussions about the development of configuration tools fedora-legacy-announce - For announcements about the Fedora Legacy Project fedora-legacy-list - For discussions about the Fedora Legacy Project fedora-selinux-list - For discussions about the Fedora SELinux Project fedora-de-list - For discussions about Fedora in the German language fedora-es-list - For discussions about Fedora in the Spanish language fedora-ja-list - For discussions about Fedora in the Japanese language fedora-i18n-list - For discussions about the internationalization of Fedora Core fedora-trans-list - For discussions about translating the software and documentation associated with the Fedora Project German: fedora-trans-de French: fedora-trans-fr Spanish: fedora-trans-es Italian: fedora-trans-it Brazilian Portuguese: fedora-trans-pt_br Japanese: fedora-trans-ja Korean: fedora-trans-ko Simplified Chinese: fedora-trans-zh_cn Traditional Chinese: fedora-trans-zh_tw From chris at beowulf.net Thu Oct 14 13:26:46 2004 From: chris at beowulf.net (Chris Stankaitis) Date: Thu, 14 Oct 2004 09:26:46 -0400 Subject: Formatting Question Message-ID: <416E7E96.8080306@beowulf.net> Please forgive this question, I am sure it lands in the RTFM category but I am having an issue which I would like some help with. 1) I checked out the document's repository from CVS and created a new document 2) I replicated the directory structure and made the needed changes to the Makefile (document name etc.) 3) I ran a make in my new doc's dir and it created the HTML. Here is the issue. When I browse to the document locally using Mozilla everything looks great, to be complete I tar'ed the dir up and sent it over to our webserver. When I browse to the document on the webserver it seems to add additional formatting which is causing my document to display a bunch of question marks all over the place, and little black boxes. Even viewing the source you can see the problem. Source viewed when document loaded locally: Chapter 4. Adding Users <td width="40%" align="right"> <a accesskey="n" href="ch05.html">Next Source viewed when document viewd over apache server: <title>Chapter?4.?Adding align="right">?<a accesskey="n" href="ch05.html"> Can anyone point me in the right direction to fix this problem? --Chris From paul at frields.com Thu Oct 14 14:38:59 2004 From: paul at frields.com (Paul W. Frields) Date: Thu, 14 Oct 2004 10:38:59 -0400 Subject: Formatting Question In-Reply-To: <416E7E96.8080306@beowulf.net> References: <416E7E96.8080306@beowulf.net> Message-ID: <1097764739.5988.4.camel@berlin.east.gov> On Thu, 2004-10-14 at 09:26, Chris Stankaitis wrote: [...snip...] > When I browse to the document locally using Mozilla everything looks > great, to be complete I tar'ed the dir up and sent it over to our > webserver. When I browse to the document on the webserver it seems to > add additional formatting which is causing my document to display a > bunch of question marks all over the place, and little black boxes. > Even viewing the source you can see the problem. > > Source viewed when document loaded locally: > > <title>Chapter 4. Adding Users > <td width="40%" align="right"> <a accesskey="n" href="ch05.html">Next > > Source viewed when document viewd over apache server: > > <title>Chapter?4.?Adding > align="right">?<a accesskey="n" href="ch05.html"> What does the "Page Info" tell you about the document? For instance, when I browse a local file it is seen as ISO-8859-1 encoding, text/html MIME type. Is that what you see from the Apache-served file? If not, the httpd.conf file might be the place to start. The version of Apache you are running might be an issue. I am out on a limb here since I don't run Web servers for a living. But, if in looking at the actual source of the file (I mean at a shell, using od or xxd, rather than post-Mozilla), you see that the file clearly contains spaces (0x20 ASCII), and not some other wackiness, the server is obviously to blame. (Well, it *seems* obvious to me, but someone more informed may have a different, and probably better, take on this.) -- Paul W. Frields, RHCE From chris at beowulf.net Thu Oct 14 16:28:29 2004 From: chris at beowulf.net (Chris Stankaitis) Date: Thu, 14 Oct 2004 12:28:29 -0400 Subject: Formatting Question In-Reply-To: <1097764739.5988.4.camel@berlin.east.gov> References: <416E7E96.8080306@beowulf.net> <1097764739.5988.4.camel@berlin.east.gov> Message-ID: <416EA92D.3030301@beowulf.net> > What does the "Page Info" tell you about the document? For instance, > when I browse a local file it is seen as ISO-8859-1 encoding, text/html > MIME type. Is that what you see from the Apache-served file? If not, the > httpd.conf file might be the place to start. The version of Apache you > are running might be an issue. > Yes, that was exactly the problem... the html was encoding in ISO, but on Apache it was trying to use UTF-8. I had to make modifications to the main-html.xsl by adding: <xsl:param name="chunker.output.encoding" select="'UTF-8'"/> to tell /usr/share/sgml/docbook/xsl-stylesheets/html/manifest.xsl to not convert the html to ISO. --Chris. From chris at beowulf.net Thu Oct 14 16:37:56 2004 From: chris at beowulf.net (Chris Stankaitis) Date: Thu, 14 Oct 2004 12:37:56 -0400 Subject: Formatting Question In-Reply-To: <416EA92D.3030301@beowulf.net> References: <416E7E96.8080306@beowulf.net> <1097764739.5988.4.camel@berlin.east.gov> <416EA92D.3030301@beowulf.net> Message-ID: <416EAB64.9050205@beowulf.net> Chris Stankaitis wrote: >> What does the "Page Info" tell you about the document? For instance, >> when I browse a local file it is seen as ISO-8859-1 encoding, text/html >> MIME type. Is that what you see from the Apache-served file? If not, the >> httpd.conf file might be the place to start. The version of Apache you >> are running might be an issue. >> > > Yes, that was exactly the problem... the html was encoding in ISO, but > on Apache it was trying to use UTF-8. > > I had to make modifications to the main-html.xsl by adding: > > <xsl:param name="chunker.output.encoding" select="'UTF-8'"/> > > to tell /usr/share/sgml/docbook/xsl-stylesheets/html/manifest.xsl to not > convert the html to ISO. > > --Chris. > UTF-8 is a standard, why is the Fedora Doc's program not using UTF-8 as it's default encoding type? From paul at frields.com Thu Oct 14 19:27:48 2004 From: paul at frields.com (Paul W. Frields) Date: Thu, 14 Oct 2004 15:27:48 -0400 Subject: Formatting Question In-Reply-To: <416EAB64.9050205@beowulf.net> References: <416E7E96.8080306@beowulf.net> <1097764739.5988.4.camel@berlin.east.gov> <416EA92D.3030301@beowulf.net> <416EAB64.9050205@beowulf.net> Message-ID: <1097782068.8319.1.camel@bettie.internal.frields.org> On Thu, 2004-10-14 at 12:37, Chris Stankaitis wrote: > Chris Stankaitis wrote: > >> What does the "Page Info" tell you about the document? For instance, > >> when I browse a local file it is seen as ISO-8859-1 encoding, text/html > >> MIME type. Is that what you see from the Apache-served file? If not, the > >> httpd.conf file might be the place to start. The version of Apache you > >> are running might be an issue. > >> > > > > Yes, that was exactly the problem... the html was encoding in ISO, but > > on Apache it was trying to use UTF-8. > > > > I had to make modifications to the main-html.xsl by adding: > > > > <xsl:param name="chunker.output.encoding" select="'UTF-8'"/> > > > > to tell /usr/share/sgml/docbook/xsl-stylesheets/html/manifest.xsl to not > > convert the html to ISO. > > > > --Chris. > > > > UTF-8 is a standard, why is the Fedora Doc's program not using UTF-8 as > it's default encoding type? I don't know of any reasons why not... even older Apache can serve out UTF-8 without a problem, AFAIK. Sounds like a candidate for a new bug in Bugzilla, eh? -- Paul W. Frields, RHCE From tfox at redhat.com Thu Oct 14 19:54:38 2004 From: tfox at redhat.com (Tammy Fox) Date: Thu, 14 Oct 2004 15:54:38 -0400 Subject: Formatting Question In-Reply-To: <416EAB64.9050205@beowulf.net> References: <416E7E96.8080306@beowulf.net> <1097764739.5988.4.camel@berlin.east.gov> <416EA92D.3030301@beowulf.net> <416EAB64.9050205@beowulf.net> Message-ID: <1097783678.4095.67.camel@localhost.localdomain> On Thu, 2004-10-14 at 12:37 -0400, Chris Stankaitis wrote: > Chris Stankaitis wrote: > >> What does the "Page Info" tell you about the document? For instance, > >> when I browse a local file it is seen as ISO-8859-1 encoding, text/html > >> MIME type. Is that what you see from the Apache-served file? If not, the > >> httpd.conf file might be the place to start. The version of Apache you > >> are running might be an issue. > >> > > > > Yes, that was exactly the problem... the html was encoding in ISO, but > > on Apache it was trying to use UTF-8. > > > > I had to make modifications to the main-html.xsl by adding: > > > > <xsl:param name="chunker.output.encoding" select="'UTF-8'"/> > > > > to tell /usr/share/sgml/docbook/xsl-stylesheets/html/manifest.xsl to not > > convert the html to ISO. > > > > --Chris. > > > > UTF-8 is a standard, why is the Fedora Doc's program not using UTF-8 as > it's default encoding type? The original xsl I wrote had UTF-8 specified. Then I removed it for some reason I can't remember now -- perhaps so it would work with the Fedora website? Let me change it to UTF-8 and post it on a test box for the website and see what happens. Tammy From tfox at redhat.com Thu Oct 14 19:59:24 2004 From: tfox at redhat.com (Tammy Fox) Date: Thu, 14 Oct 2004 15:59:24 -0400 Subject: [Fwd: Wide Open Magazine Update] Message-ID: <1097783964.4095.71.camel@localhost.localdomain> Everyone, In case you have been wondering what I've been working on the last few months, here is the email we sent out today to Wide Open Magazine subscribers. Basically, the magazine has been renamed Red Hat Magazine, is going online, is free, and will now include the best parts of Under the Brim. I will be doing an interview with Fedorazine soon about the change, so stay tuned for that. I'll post a link on my blog when it is available. Cheers! Tammy -------- Forwarded Message -------- From: Red Hat <redhat at redhat.com> Reply-To: Red Hat <support-bzx5ra8a94ddcqbhrcfd5bysph09a2 at redhat.com> To: tfox at redhat.com Subject: Wide Open Magazine Update Date: Thu, 14 Oct 2004 16:00:52 -0000 When the first issue of Wide Open Magazine was published in March 2004, we received great positive feedback. People agreed that the magazine was a awesome idea and loved the fact that Red Hat finally had a way to share technical information on a more frequent basis. As many of you already know, we have been evaluating your feedback the last few months and are happy to be able to let you in on our future plans for Wide Open Magazine. As it turns out, October marks the fifth anniversary of Red Hat's Under the Brim newsletter. Starting in November, we will be merging Under the Brim and Wide Open Magazine into a new online publication feauring the best of both publications. We are calling it Red Hat Magazine. A new issue will be published every month. The goal is still the same: provide in-depth articles on the development and application of open source technologies. But in addition to what you saw in Wide Open Magazine, you'll also see features that Under the Brim readers have come to love, including Ask Shadowman, Tips and Tricks, and more. We hope you'll like what you see, and look forward to your feedback. --> Subscribe to email reminders about new issues: http://info.redhat.com/a/tBBbqKKAJPSNNATc6OZAAAAAAvB/rhm1 --> Read the Editor's Blog: http://info.redhat.com/a/tBBbqKKAJPSNNATc6OZAAAAAAvB/rhm2 From tfox at redhat.com Thu Oct 14 20:03:16 2004 From: tfox at redhat.com (Tammy Fox) Date: Thu, 14 Oct 2004 16:03:16 -0400 Subject: Progress report In-Reply-To: <1097673468.2444.24.camel@berlin.east.gov> References: <1097673468.2444.24.camel@berlin.east.gov> Message-ID: <1097784196.4095.76.camel@localhost.localdomain> I am almost finished reading usb-hotplug-tutorial. mirror-tutorial is next on my list after reading gateway-server. I set up 129722 for docs that were through the proof phase and were ready to push live. So, technically, they aren't supposed to move there yet. I would blame the docs, but I helped write them. ;-) Thanks, Tammy On Wed, 2004-10-13 at 09:17 -0400, Paul W. Frields wrote: > The mirror-tutorial and the usb-hotplug-tutorial have been moved to > block bug 129722 (publication tracker). I believe I have incorporated > all suggested changes from my editor -- thanks, Karsten -- and they > should be ready for final review. I think I followed the workflow > correctly; if not, let the paddling commence! > > -- > Paul W. Frields, RHCE From chris at beowulf.net Thu Oct 14 20:14:47 2004 From: chris at beowulf.net (Chris Stankaitis) Date: Thu, 14 Oct 2004 16:14:47 -0400 Subject: Formatting Question In-Reply-To: <1097783678.4095.67.camel@localhost.localdomain> References: <416E7E96.8080306@beowulf.net> <1097764739.5988.4.camel@berlin.east.gov> <416EA92D.3030301@beowulf.net> <416EAB64.9050205@beowulf.net> <1097783678.4095.67.camel@localhost.localdomain> Message-ID: <416EDE37.3020904@beowulf.net> Tammy Fox wrote: > > The original xsl I wrote had UTF-8 specified. Then I removed it for some > reason I can't remember now -- perhaps so it would work with the Fedora > website? Let me change it to UTF-8 and post it on a test box for the > website and see what happens. > > Tammy > Looking on a few Fedora Core 1 boxes we have here as well as some RHEL-3ES/WS boxes we use as web servers it looks like the httpd.conf has a default config option that sets UTF-8: <snip> AddDefaultCharset UTF-8 </snip> If your docs display the encoding issue on the test box check the httpd.conf for the above line. --Chris From paul at frields.com Thu Oct 14 20:56:17 2004 From: paul at frields.com (Paul W. Frields) Date: Thu, 14 Oct 2004 16:56:17 -0400 Subject: Progress report In-Reply-To: <1097784196.4095.76.camel@localhost.localdomain> References: <1097673468.2444.24.camel@berlin.east.gov> <1097784196.4095.76.camel@localhost.localdomain> Message-ID: <1097787377.9207.5.camel@bettie.internal.frields.org> On Thu, 2004-10-14 at 16:03, Tammy Fox wrote: > I am almost finished reading usb-hotplug-tutorial. mirror-tutorial is > next on my list after reading gateway-server. > > I set up 129722 for docs that were through the proof phase and were > ready to push live. So, technically, they aren't supposed to move there > yet. I would blame the docs, but I helped write them. ;-) You can't blame them anyway, it was my fault. I went back and reviewed the Quick Start Guide again, and it does state that "once the writer and editor feel it is ready to be published to the website, make bug 129722 depend on this bug so the project maintainer can review it and post it to the website." I didn't read carefully enough, so shame on me. Consider these errors as, um, time-savers this time around. Yeah, that's the ticket. :-) -- Paul W. Frields, RHCE From kwade at redhat.com Fri Oct 15 19:35:38 2004 From: kwade at redhat.com (Karsten Wade) Date: Fri, 15 Oct 2004 12:35:38 -0700 Subject: workflow (was Progress report) In-Reply-To: <1097787377.9207.5.camel@bettie.internal.frields.org> References: <1097673468.2444.24.camel@berlin.east.gov> <1097784196.4095.76.camel@localhost.localdomain> <1097787377.9207.5.camel@bettie.internal.frields.org> Message-ID: <1097868937.4990.4523.camel@erato.phig.org> On Thu, 2004-10-14 at 13:56, Paul W. Frields wrote: > On Thu, 2004-10-14 at 16:03, Tammy Fox wrote: > > > > I set up 129722 for docs that were through the proof phase and were > > ready to push live. So, technically, they aren't supposed to move there > > yet. I would blame the docs, but I helped write them. ;-) > > You can't blame them anyway, it was my fault. I went back and reviewed > the Quick Start Guide again, and it does state that "once the writer and > editor feel it is ready to be published to the website, make bug 129722 > depend on this bug so the project maintainer can review it and post it > to the website." I didn't read carefully enough, so shame on me. I've read this several times now, and I still get the same interpretation. 1. Writer (Paul) and Editor (Karsten) think the doc is ready, so it gets pushed to 129722 2. Web editor/maintainer (Tammy) continues workflow in 129722, doing a final edit before publishing. Isn't this what Paul did? Now, if what Tammy -meant- was that 129722 was only for docs that are totally edited, and literally just in the queue for inclusion on the website, then we need to fix the docs to reflect that. I think of this in terms of the roles and the workflow. In the current situation, Tammy is filling several roles, i.e., project maintainer, Web maintainer, publication editor, etc. Since these are roles, they can be parsed into different people, and their actions are associated with different phases in a document's lifecycle. Below is a representation of the workflow, aiui. In this situation, I completed the Editing phase and sent the documents onto the Publication phase, which is represented in 129722. In that phase, if Tammy finds enough problems, she can send it back to me to resolve as I see fit, or bounce it all the way back to the Writing phase. The latter wouldn't usually occur; minor edits can be done by the publication editor, editor, or writer. A different workflow, which is what I think Tammy is talking about, would have two parts to the Editing phase, or just insert a Publication Editing phase after the Editing phase. So, it just comes down to where we think the final-final edit/check-over should be in the workflow. # Current Workflow ## Writing phase Writer writes Editor observes ## Editing phase Editor edits, can send back to Writing phase or send on to Publication phase ## Publication phase Publication editor does a final read, approves or sends back to Editing or Writing phases. Web maintainer takes a document, only after it's been approved for publication, and puts it on the site. Any problems after that go through a bug maintenance phase. -- Karsten Wade, RHCE, Tech Writer a lemon is just a melon in disguise http://people.redhat.com/kwade/ gpg fingerprint: 2680 DBFD D968 3141 0115 5F1B D992 0E06 AD0E 0C41 From tfox at redhat.com Tue Oct 19 18:06:57 2004 From: tfox at redhat.com (Tammy Fox) Date: Tue, 19 Oct 2004 14:06:57 -0400 Subject: workflow (was Progress report) In-Reply-To: <1097868937.4990.4523.camel@erato.phig.org> References: <1097673468.2444.24.camel@berlin.east.gov> <1097784196.4095.76.camel@localhost.localdomain> <1097787377.9207.5.camel@bettie.internal.frields.org> <1097868937.4990.4523.camel@erato.phig.org> Message-ID: <1098209217.3716.14.camel@localhost.localdomain> On Fri, 2004-10-15 at 12:35 -0700, Karsten Wade wrote: > On Thu, 2004-10-14 at 13:56, Paul W. Frields wrote: > > On Thu, 2004-10-14 at 16:03, Tammy Fox wrote: > > > > > > I set up 129722 for docs that were through the proof phase and were > > > ready to push live. So, technically, they aren't supposed to move there > > > yet. I would blame the docs, but I helped write them. ;-) > > > > You can't blame them anyway, it was my fault. I went back and reviewed > > the Quick Start Guide again, and it does state that "once the writer and > > editor feel it is ready to be published to the website, make bug 129722 > > depend on this bug so the project maintainer can review it and post it > > to the website." I didn't read carefully enough, so shame on me. > > I've read this several times now, and I still get the same > interpretation. > > 1. Writer (Paul) and Editor (Karsten) think the doc is ready, so it gets > pushed to 129722 > > 2. Web editor/maintainer (Tammy) continues workflow in 129722, doing a > final edit before publishing. > > Isn't this what Paul did? > > Now, if what Tammy -meant- was that 129722 was only for docs that are > totally edited, and literally just in the queue for inclusion on the > website, then we need to fix the docs to reflect that. > > I think of this in terms of the roles and the workflow. In the current > situation, Tammy is filling several roles, i.e., project maintainer, Web > maintainer, publication editor, etc. Since these are roles, they can be > parsed into different people, and their actions are associated with > different phases in a document's lifecycle. > > Below is a representation of the workflow, aiui. > > In this situation, I completed the Editing phase and sent the documents > onto the Publication phase, which is represented in 129722. In that > phase, if Tammy finds enough problems, she can send it back to me to > resolve as I see fit, or bounce it all the way back to the Writing > phase. The latter wouldn't usually occur; minor edits can be done by > the publication editor, editor, or writer. > > A different workflow, which is what I think Tammy is talking about, > would have two parts to the Editing phase, or just insert a Publication > Editing phase after the Editing phase. So, it just comes down to where > we think the final-final edit/check-over should be in the workflow. > > # Current Workflow > > ## Writing phase > > Writer writes > Editor observes > > ## Editing phase > > Editor edits, can send back to Writing phase or send on to Publication > phase > > ## Publication phase > > Publication editor does a final read, approves or sends back to Editing > or Writing phases. > > Web maintainer takes a document, only after it's been approved for > publication, and puts it on the site. Any problems after that go > through a bug maintenance phase. > Thanks for writing this out Karsten. Yes, I meant that I think there should be 2 phases after the edit phase -- one in which the publication editor reviews it and once in which the web maintainer publishes it after publication editor handoff. Perhaps we need another tracker bug? I hate to add even more process into the mix, but it would make it easier for me to remember which tutorials need my edits and which just need to be pushed live (other than the post-it note on my LCD). Right now, there seems to be one tracker bug with the label "Docs ready for going to fedora.redhat.com. " To me, the label implies they have past the publication editor phase. So, we either need to add another tracker or change the summary of the tracker bug to be more inline with its purpose. Tammy From kwade at redhat.com Tue Oct 19 19:20:15 2004 From: kwade at redhat.com (Karsten Wade) Date: Tue, 19 Oct 2004 12:20:15 -0700 Subject: workflow (was Progress report) In-Reply-To: <1098209217.3716.14.camel@localhost.localdomain> References: <1097673468.2444.24.camel@berlin.east.gov> <1097784196.4095.76.camel@localhost.localdomain> <1097787377.9207.5.camel@bettie.internal.frields.org> <1097868937.4990.4523.camel@erato.phig.org> <1098209217.3716.14.camel@localhost.localdomain> Message-ID: <1098213614.14458.392.camel@erato.phig.org> On Tue, 2004-10-19 at 11:06, Tammy Fox wrote: [snipped process] > Thanks for writing this out Karsten. Yes, I meant that I think there > should be 2 phases after the edit phase -- one in which the publication > editor reviews it and once in which the web maintainer publishes it > after publication editor handoff. Perhaps we need another tracker bug? I > hate to add even more process into the mix, but it would make it easier > for me to remember which tutorials need my edits and which just need to > be pushed live (other than the post-it note on my LCD). Right now, there > seems to be one tracker bug with the label "Docs ready for going to > fedora.redhat.com. " To me, the label implies they have past the > publication editor phase. So, we either need to add another tracker or > change the summary of the tracker bug to be more inline with its > purpose. Actually, that sounds like it's just part of the Editing phase. The approach would be: 1. New doc gets new individual tracking #, blocking the active bug tracker 2. Writer is assigned to that bug. 3. Writer assigns that bug to the Editor for editing. If the Editor needs to kick it back to the Writer, reassign it back. Otherwise, the Editor assigns it to the Publications Editor (or Editor-in-Chief or whatever we call that role). 4. Pub Editor does the final-final check. If it's sent back, it stays blocking the same bug, but gets individually reassigned to the Editor (or Writer). If it's approved, it gets assigned to the Web Maintainer -and- moved to block the ready-for-publication bug. How's that? I need a swim diagram for this stuff. :) - Karsten -- Karsten Wade, RHCE, Tech Writer a lemon is just a melon in disguise http://people.redhat.com/kwade/ gpg fingerprint: 2680 DBFD D968 3141 0115 5F1B D992 0E06 AD0E 0C41 From tfox at redhat.com Tue Oct 19 19:57:29 2004 From: tfox at redhat.com (Tammy Fox) Date: Tue, 19 Oct 2004 15:57:29 -0400 Subject: workflow (was Progress report) In-Reply-To: <1098213614.14458.392.camel@erato.phig.org> References: <1097673468.2444.24.camel@berlin.east.gov> <1097784196.4095.76.camel@localhost.localdomain> <1097787377.9207.5.camel@bettie.internal.frields.org> <1097868937.4990.4523.camel@erato.phig.org> <1098209217.3716.14.camel@localhost.localdomain> <1098213614.14458.392.camel@erato.phig.org> Message-ID: <1098215849.3716.54.camel@localhost.localdomain> On Tue, 2004-10-19 at 12:20 -0700, Karsten Wade wrote: > On Tue, 2004-10-19 at 11:06, Tammy Fox wrote: > > [snipped process] > > > Thanks for writing this out Karsten. Yes, I meant that I think there > > should be 2 phases after the edit phase -- one in which the publication > > editor reviews it and once in which the web maintainer publishes it > > after publication editor handoff. Perhaps we need another tracker bug? I > > hate to add even more process into the mix, but it would make it easier > > for me to remember which tutorials need my edits and which just need to > > be pushed live (other than the post-it note on my LCD). Right now, there > > seems to be one tracker bug with the label "Docs ready for going to > > fedora.redhat.com. " To me, the label implies they have past the > > publication editor phase. So, we either need to add another tracker or > > change the summary of the tracker bug to be more inline with its > > purpose. > > Actually, that sounds like it's just part of the Editing phase. The > approach would be: > > 1. New doc gets new individual tracking #, blocking the active bug > tracker > > 2. Writer is assigned to that bug. > > 3. Writer assigns that bug to the Editor for editing. If the Editor > needs to kick it back to the Writer, reassign it back. Otherwise, the > Editor assigns it to the Publications Editor (or Editor-in-Chief or > whatever we call that role). > > 4. Pub Editor does the final-final check. If it's sent back, it stays > blocking the same bug, but gets individually reassigned to the Editor > (or Writer). If it's approved, it gets assigned to the Web Maintainer > -and- moved to block the ready-for-publication bug. > > How's that? > > I need a swim diagram for this stuff. :) > Sounds good to me. This brings back memories of drawing state diagrams in Automata class. ;-) > - Karsten > -- > Karsten Wade, RHCE, Tech Writer > a lemon is just a melon in disguise > http://people.redhat.com/kwade/ > gpg fingerprint: 2680 DBFD D968 3141 0115 5F1B D992 0E06 AD0E 0C41 From wahpay7 at hotmail.com Wed Oct 20 19:07:23 2004 From: wahpay7 at hotmail.com (Billy wahpay) Date: Wed, 20 Oct 2004 19:07:23 +0000 Subject: i would like to receive fedora docs or be put on the list Message-ID: <BAY8-F81bAUfKRfcjcM00006c31@hotmail.com> thanks linux gods!! i luv my penguin _________________________________________________________________ Take advantage of powerful junk e-mail filters built on patented Microsoft? SmartScreen Technology. http://join.msn.com/?pgmarket=en-ca&page=byoa/prem&xAPID=1994&DI=1034&SU=http://hotmail.com/enca&HL=Market_MSNIS_Taglines Start enjoying all the benefits of MSN? Premium right now and get the first two months FREE*. From s.ellis at fastmail.co.uk Fri Oct 22 01:24:55 2004 From: s.ellis at fastmail.co.uk (Stuart Ellis) Date: Fri, 22 Oct 2004 02:24:55 +0100 Subject: Installation Guide Message-ID: <1098408295.27543.207006743@webmail.messagingengine.com> The material I have now looks almost like a complete guide, although it's a bit short of being that. So I've made it buildable rather than keep throwing files into Bugzilla. I've also revised the markup in all files to bring them into line with Fedora docs. DocBook: http://www.se.clara.net/fedora/fedora-install-guide-0.1.tar.gz HTML output: http://www.se.clara.net/fedora/fedora-install-guide-en/index.html There are a number of blank sections, some because I haven't got the resources to test these features properly: - Partitioning (as discussed, probably needs somebody with a multi-disc RAID system) - Boot Loader (as above) - Dual Boot The Network Login configuration in the System User screen has a large number of options, and may even warrent being broken out into a separate section (or appendix, since many installations may not use these features). Realistically I'm not going to be able to tackle a number of these features, so somebody with a purer UNIX network may be better able to handle this. The two other things which are untested are USB boot (Beginning the Installation) and wireless (the Network Configuration screen, presuming anaconda can handle wireless cards) - again I don't have the equipment to test these, although the text is complete as is. Kickstart and Boot Options appendices may be written up over the next few days. Still learning as I go along, so all help and comments gratefully received. -- Stuart Ellis s.ellis at fastmail.co.uk From tfox at redhat.com Fri Oct 22 20:23:17 2004 From: tfox at redhat.com (Tammy Fox) Date: Fri, 22 Oct 2004 16:23:17 -0400 Subject: Installation Guide In-Reply-To: <1098408295.27543.207006743@webmail.messagingengine.com> References: <1098408295.27543.207006743@webmail.messagingengine.com> Message-ID: <1098476597.3756.94.camel@localhost.localdomain> Great work Stuart! This will make it much easier for people to review the guide and give you feedback. Tammy On Fri, 2004-10-22 at 02:24 +0100, Stuart Ellis wrote: > The material I have now looks almost like a complete guide, although > it's a bit short of being that. So I've made it buildable rather than > keep throwing files into Bugzilla. I've also revised the markup in all > files to bring them into line with Fedora docs. > > DocBook: > http://www.se.clara.net/fedora/fedora-install-guide-0.1.tar.gz > > HTML output: > http://www.se.clara.net/fedora/fedora-install-guide-en/index.html > > There are a number of blank sections, some because I haven't got the > resources to test these features properly: > > - Partitioning (as discussed, probably needs somebody with a multi-disc > RAID system) > - Boot Loader (as above) > - Dual Boot > > The Network Login configuration in the System User screen has a large > number of options, and may even warrent being broken out into a separate > section (or appendix, since many installations may not use these > features). Realistically I'm not going to be able to tackle a number of > these features, so somebody with a purer UNIX network may be better able > to handle this. > > The two other things which are untested are USB boot (Beginning the > Installation) and wireless (the Network Configuration screen, presuming > anaconda can handle wireless cards) - again I don't have the equipment > to test these, although the text is complete as is. > > Kickstart and Boot Options appendices may be written up over the next > few days. > > Still learning as I go along, so all help and comments gratefully > received. > -- > Stuart Ellis > s.ellis at fastmail.co.uk From s.ellis at fastmail.co.uk Sat Oct 23 10:46:58 2004 From: s.ellis at fastmail.co.uk (Stuart Ellis) Date: Sat, 23 Oct 2004 11:46:58 +0100 Subject: Installation Guide In-Reply-To: <1098476597.3756.94.camel@localhost.localdomain> References: <1098408295.27543.207006743@webmail.messagingengine.com> <1098476597.3756.94.camel@localhost.localdomain> Message-ID: <1098528418.19921.207096103@webmail.messagingengine.com> On Fri, 22 Oct 2004 16:23:17 -0400, "Tammy Fox" <tfox at redhat.com> said: > This will make it much easier for people to review > the guide and give you feedback. > > Tammy I hope so. In hindsight I've been too intent on trying to make this document viable as quickly as possible. The structure and content here are certainly not set in stone. The FDP will always be working on an Installation Guide one way or another, hopefully this will help to get things going by providing a base to work on. -- Stuart Ellis s.ellis at fastmail.co.uk From rahulsundaram at yahoo.co.in Sun Oct 24 00:35:40 2004 From: rahulsundaram at yahoo.co.in (Rahul Sundaram) Date: Sat, 23 Oct 2004 17:35:40 -0700 (PDT) Subject: Installation Guide In-Reply-To: <1098408295.27543.207006743@webmail.messagingengine.com> Message-ID: <20041024003540.84305.qmail@web8501.mail.in.yahoo.com> Hi a few notes Please ask the readers to check the relevant release notes early http://www.se.clara.net/fedora/fedora-install-guide-en/s1-aborting-installation.html The above section might be better as a note http://www.se.clara.net/fedora/fedora-install-guide-en/s1-selinux.html Might be important to linux to the current fedora selinux faq Why havent you given the screenshots yet? It might be worth it to write a faq and refer to that in this guide I hope you would be able to get this included before the release on nov 9th. overall a much needed document. good work regards Rahul Sundaram __________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? Take Yahoo! Mail with you! Get it on your mobile phone. http://mobile.yahoo.com/maildemo From s.ellis at fastmail.co.uk Sun Oct 24 23:06:53 2004 From: s.ellis at fastmail.co.uk (Stuart Ellis) Date: Mon, 25 Oct 2004 00:06:53 +0100 Subject: Installation Guide In-Reply-To: <20041024003540.84305.qmail@web8501.mail.in.yahoo.com> References: <20041024003540.84305.qmail@web8501.mail.in.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <1098659213.24550.207154916@webmail.messagingengine.com> On Sat, 23 Oct 2004 17:35:40 -0700 (PDT), "Rahul Sundaram" <rahulsundaram at yahoo.co.in> said: > > Please ask the readers to check the relevant release > notes early There was a paragraph for this in the introduction, which I've now reworked to make the Release Notes more prominent. > http://www.se.clara.net/fedora/fedora-install-guide-en/s1-aborting-installation.html > > The above section might be better as a note I agree - this has now been moved to chapter 2 as a note. > http://www.se.clara.net/fedora/fedora-install-guide-en/s1-selinux.html > > Might be important to linux to the current fedora > selinux faq The targetted policy means that SELinux shouldn't interfere with anything other than the network services it locks down, so it ought to be invisible to most users. I wrote the text to read quickly with each section as self-contained as possible for those readers who just want to look up one item, so I would rather avoid putting external links in the main chapters, but see below... > Why havent you given the screenshots yet? The view was that we should get the text done, and then do all of the screenshots at once for consistency. So at the moment there are just placeholders where screenshots should be. >It might be worth it to write a faq and refer to that in this > guide There isn't an official FAQ at the moment, but there is an unofficial FAQ Website and couple of other very popular independent sites on the Web offering support. Building some kind of relationship between the various groups will be a big task - at the moment I don't think that the Fedora Project "officially" recognises or endorses any of these sites, so we can't really include links to them. On the other hand I think that the Installation Guide should provide a smooth progression for new users by suggesting how they might use their new system, and pointing them to other sources of information that are available. I have an idea about this, but it needs a bit more thought. -- Stuart Ellis s.ellis at fastmail.co.uk From s.ellis at fastmail.co.uk Sun Oct 24 23:09:46 2004 From: s.ellis at fastmail.co.uk (Stuart Ellis) Date: Mon, 25 Oct 2004 00:09:46 +0100 Subject: Installation Guide v 0.2 Message-ID: <1098659386.24681.207156988@webmail.messagingengine.com> DocBook: http://www.se.clara.net/fedora/fedora-install-guide-0.2.tar.gz HTML output: http://www.se.clara.net/fedora/fedora-install-guide-en/index.html Various minor edits, but no new pieces. -- Stuart Ellis s.ellis at fastmail.co.uk From s.ellis at fastmail.co.uk Sun Oct 24 23:23:44 2004 From: s.ellis at fastmail.co.uk (Stuart Ellis) Date: Mon, 25 Oct 2004 00:23:44 +0100 Subject: Re-using material from Red Hat Docs Message-ID: <1098660224.25361.207157082@webmail.messagingengine.com> Looking at the Kickstart and Boot Options sections, there are lists of options which are already written in the Red Hat docs. The Kickstart options are a very long list: http://www.redhat.com/docs/manuals/enterprise/RHEL-3-Manual/sysadmin-guide/s1-kickstart2-options.html The legal notices say Open Publication Licence (rather than GNU FDL), but also "distribution of substantively modified versions of this document is prohibited without the explicit permission of the copyright holder". Would it be possible to re-use an exerpt in Fedora documentation without a licencing problem ? -- Stuart Ellis s.ellis at fastmail.co.uk From pnasrat at redhat.com Mon Oct 25 10:42:03 2004 From: pnasrat at redhat.com (Paul Nasrat) Date: Mon, 25 Oct 2004 11:42:03 +0100 Subject: Re-using material from Red Hat Docs In-Reply-To: <1098660224.25361.207157082@webmail.messagingengine.com> References: <1098660224.25361.207157082@webmail.messagingengine.com> Message-ID: <1098700923.4782.11.camel@anu.eridu> On Mon, 2004-10-25 at 00:23 +0100, Stuart Ellis wrote: > Looking at the Kickstart and Boot Options sections, there are lists of > options which are already written in the Red Hat docs. > > The Kickstart options are a very long list: > > http://www.redhat.com/docs/manuals/enterprise/RHEL-3-Manual/sysadmin-guide/s1-kickstart2-options.html > > The legal notices say Open Publication Licence (rather than GNU FDL), > but also "distribution of substantively modified versions of this > document is prohibited without the explicit permission of the copyright > holder". > > Would it be possible to re-use an exerpt in Fedora documentation without > a licencing problem ? Try /usr/share/doc/anaconda-.../ which should all be covered by the GPL Paul From tfox at redhat.com Mon Oct 25 14:18:53 2004 From: tfox at redhat.com (Tammy Fox) Date: Mon, 25 Oct 2004 10:18:53 -0400 Subject: Re-using material from Red Hat Docs In-Reply-To: <1098700923.4782.11.camel@anu.eridu> References: <1098660224.25361.207157082@webmail.messagingengine.com> <1098700923.4782.11.camel@anu.eridu> Message-ID: <1098713933.3757.2.camel@localhost.localdomain> On Mon, 2004-10-25 at 11:42 +0100, Paul Nasrat wrote: > On Mon, 2004-10-25 at 00:23 +0100, Stuart Ellis wrote: > > Looking at the Kickstart and Boot Options sections, there are lists of > > options which are already written in the Red Hat docs. > > > > The Kickstart options are a very long list: > > > > http://www.redhat.com/docs/manuals/enterprise/RHEL-3-Manual/sysadmin-guide/s1-kickstart2-options.html > > > > The legal notices say Open Publication Licence (rather than GNU FDL), > > but also "distribution of substantively modified versions of this > > document is prohibited without the explicit permission of the copyright > > holder". > > > > Would it be possible to re-use an exerpt in Fedora documentation without > > a licencing problem ? > > Try /usr/share/doc/anaconda-.../ which should all be covered by the GPL > > Paul The kickstart docs in /usr/share/doc/anaconda-*/ are under the OPL as well. They are just a text version of the ones in the Enterprise Linux docs. Tammy From jos at xos.nl Mon Oct 25 14:28:12 2004 From: jos at xos.nl (Jos Vos) Date: Mon, 25 Oct 2004 16:28:12 +0200 Subject: Re-using material from Red Hat Docs In-Reply-To: <1098713933.3757.2.camel@localhost.localdomain>; from tfox@redhat.com on Mon, Oct 25, 2004 at 10:18:53AM -0400 References: <1098660224.25361.207157082@webmail.messagingengine.com> <1098700923.4782.11.camel@anu.eridu> <1098713933.3757.2.camel@localhost.localdomain> Message-ID: <20041025162812.A14592@xos037.xos.nl> On Mon, Oct 25, 2004 at 10:18:53AM -0400, Tammy Fox wrote: > The kickstart docs in /usr/share/doc/anaconda-*/ are under the OPL as > well. They are just a text version of the ones in the Enterprise Linux > docs. Related to the original question about the RH docs: is there any explanation of when documents are seen as a "substantively modified versions" and when not? Will changing the distro name at all places create a "substantively modified version", or not because "only" names are changed? -- -- Jos Vos <jos at xos.nl> -- X/OS Experts in Open Systems BV | Phone: +31 20 6938364 -- Amsterdam, The Netherlands | Fax: +31 20 6948204 From pnasrat at redhat.com Mon Oct 25 14:28:49 2004 From: pnasrat at redhat.com (Paul Nasrat) Date: Mon, 25 Oct 2004 15:28:49 +0100 Subject: Re-using material from Red Hat Docs In-Reply-To: <1098713933.3757.2.camel@localhost.localdomain> References: <1098660224.25361.207157082@webmail.messagingengine.com> <1098700923.4782.11.camel@anu.eridu> <1098713933.3757.2.camel@localhost.localdomain> Message-ID: <1098714529.4782.16.camel@anu.eridu> On Mon, 2004-10-25 at 10:18 -0400, Tammy Fox wrote: > On Mon, 2004-10-25 at 11:42 +0100, Paul Nasrat wrote: > > On Mon, 2004-10-25 at 00:23 +0100, Stuart Ellis wrote: > > > Would it be possible to re-use an exerpt in Fedora documentation without > > > a licencing problem ? > > > > Try /usr/share/doc/anaconda-.../ which should all be covered by the GPL > The kickstart docs in /usr/share/doc/anaconda-*/ are under the OPL as > well. They are just a text version of the ones in the Enterprise Linux > docs. Certainly COPYING in anaconda CVS doesn't imply that. Paul From tfox at redhat.com Mon Oct 25 18:11:00 2004 From: tfox at redhat.com (Tammy Fox) Date: Mon, 25 Oct 2004 14:11:00 -0400 Subject: Re-using material from Red Hat Docs In-Reply-To: <1098714529.4782.16.camel@anu.eridu> References: <1098660224.25361.207157082@webmail.messagingengine.com> <1098700923.4782.11.camel@anu.eridu> <1098713933.3757.2.camel@localhost.localdomain> <1098714529.4782.16.camel@anu.eridu> Message-ID: <1098727860.3757.30.camel@localhost.localdomain> On Mon, 2004-10-25 at 15:28 +0100, Paul Nasrat wrote: > On Mon, 2004-10-25 at 10:18 -0400, Tammy Fox wrote: > > On Mon, 2004-10-25 at 11:42 +0100, Paul Nasrat wrote: > > > On Mon, 2004-10-25 at 00:23 +0100, Stuart Ellis wrote: > > > > > Would it be possible to re-use an exerpt in Fedora documentation without > > > > a licencing problem ? > > > > > > Try /usr/share/doc/anaconda-.../ which should all be covered by the GPL > > > The kickstart docs in /usr/share/doc/anaconda-*/ are under the OPL as > > well. They are just a text version of the ones in the Enterprise Linux > > docs. > > Certainly COPYING in anaconda CVS doesn't imply that. > > Paul The top of kickstart-docs.{txt,html} contains the OPL statement. It is probably worth filing a bug to say that the OPL for the kickstart docs and the COPYING file contradict each other. Will you file it since you discovered the bug? Thanks, Tammy From s.ellis at fastmail.co.uk Tue Oct 26 09:54:46 2004 From: s.ellis at fastmail.co.uk (Stuart Ellis) Date: Tue, 26 Oct 2004 10:54:46 +0100 Subject: Re-using material from Red Hat Docs In-Reply-To: <1098727860.3757.30.camel@localhost.localdomain> References: <1098660224.25361.207157082@webmail.messagingengine.com> <1098700923.4782.11.camel@anu.eridu> <1098713933.3757.2.camel@localhost.localdomain> <1098714529.4782.16.camel@anu.eridu> <1098727860.3757.30.camel@localhost.localdomain> Message-ID: <1098784486.18037.207272182@webmail.messagingengine.com> > > > The kickstart docs in /usr/share/doc/anaconda-*/ are under the OPL as > > > well. They are just a text version of the ones in the Enterprise Linux > > > docs. Is there a way for us to safely reuse some of this OPL material ? There isn't much scope for rewriting the lists of options in a original way, so in this case it would it be much easier to just transplant. Obviously, the rest of text in the relevent sections of the Fedora Guide will be original work, so it's fairly limited reuse. -- Stuart Ellis s.ellis at fastmail.co.uk From rahulsundaram at yahoo.co.in Tue Oct 26 20:25:41 2004 From: rahulsundaram at yahoo.co.in (Rahul Sundaram) Date: Tue, 26 Oct 2004 13:25:41 -0700 (PDT) Subject: Installation Guide v 0.2 In-Reply-To: <1098659386.24681.207156988@webmail.messagingengine.com> Message-ID: <20041026202541.1703.qmail@web8509.mail.in.yahoo.com> Hi You should probably add the instructions to download and burn a ISO or link to appropriate documentation.Many users are unsure of which ISO's are needed. Specifically make sure you explain to them that the images containing srpms are NOT required and how many images and required for the basic installation. It would very useful to include instructions for burning a image from Windows also http://linuxiso.org/viewdoc.php/isofaq.html The above seems to fit the needs well. " Fedora Core does not support installation with diskettes." I suppose you mean floppy disks here. Make sure the language is more explicit throughout the guide "No changes are made to your computer until package installation commences." " The Fedora installation system has three elements" Non native speakers would probably appreciate a more basic form. replace commences with starts and elements with parts of something similar. This applies for the whole documentation "Insert CD 1 into the CD or DVD drive." The user has an option to download and use the DVD so it should be something like "Insert the first CD/DVD into the CD/DVD drive" SELinux is likely to be transparent to the end users but administrators who are new to the concept would certainly want to learn better about it and it is NOT transparent to them in all occasions. This is one of the reasons why I wanted you to link to the selinux faq http://fedora.redhat.com/docs/selinux-faq-fc2/ http://fedora.redhat.com/docs/selinux-faq-fc3test2/ "You can also launch the system administration tools included in Fedora Core from any user account using the root password." This would be a more precise version. "It is recommended that you use user system as a normal(non root)user. Any system administration tools in the graphical user interface would prompt for a root password if its required" Make sure you mention that the configuration stuff that is setup using the "setup agent" is OPTIONAL. This is one of the reasons why firstboot has been split up from anaconda "If you have to reconfigure the sound card later, you can use the system-config-soundcard utility. This is the menu item System Settings->Soundcard Detection." make sure you mention the menu item first and follow it by command line equivalents wherever appropriate. we should be targetting end users who are comfortable using the GUI better I request you put up screenshots wherever applicable atleast temporarily. It would help me associate the content with the appropriate screens better.(just for review purposes) regards Rahul Sundaram __________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? Yahoo! Mail Address AutoComplete - You start. We finish. http://promotions.yahoo.com/new_mail From paul at frields.com Tue Oct 26 22:06:43 2004 From: paul at frields.com (Paul W. Frields) Date: Tue, 26 Oct 2004 18:06:43 -0400 Subject: Installation Guide v 0.2 In-Reply-To: <20041026202541.1703.qmail@web8509.mail.in.yahoo.com> References: <20041026202541.1703.qmail@web8509.mail.in.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <1098828403.31376.9.camel@bettie.internal.frields.org> Some additional corrections or re-interpretations below, with a nod to correct style: On Tue, 2004-10-26 at 16:25, Rahul Sundaram wrote: > " Fedora Core does not support installation with > diskettes." > > I suppose you mean floppy disks here. Make sure the > language is more explicit throughout the guide Also, it would be better to say "from diskettes." > "Insert CD 1 into the CD or DVD drive." > > The user has an option to download and use the DVD so > it should be something like "Insert the first CD/DVD > into the CD/DVD drive" No slashes please -- try: "Insert the first disc into the CD or DVD drive." (Notice that "disc" is generic.) > "You can also launch the system administration tools > included in Fedora Core from any user account using > the root password." > > This would be a more precise version. "It is > recommended that you use user system as a normal(non > root)user. Any system administration tools in the > graphical user interface would prompt for a root > password if its required" But please avoid passive voice. Try: "You should use your &FC; system as a normal, non-root user. System administration tools which require administrator access will prompt you for the password for the root account." (Note that this works outside the GUI as well, e.g. printconf.) > "If you have to reconfigure the sound card later, you > can use the system-config-soundcard utility. This is > the menu item System Settings->Soundcard Detection." "If you have to reconfigure the sound card later, use the system-config-soundcard utility. From the GUI menu, choose System Settings, Soundcard Detection." > make sure you mention the menu item first and follow > it by command line equivalents wherever appropriate. > we should be targetting end users who are comfortable > using the GUI better I think the above statement takes care of everyone. Non-CLI friendly users will ignore the program name and follow the GUI steps. Saving the program name until second will probably often result in tortured syntax. Just an editorial $0.02... -- Paul W. Frields, RHCE From rahulsundaram at yahoo.co.in Tue Oct 26 20:26:02 2004 From: rahulsundaram at yahoo.co.in (Rahul Sundaram) Date: Tue, 26 Oct 2004 13:26:02 -0700 (PDT) Subject: Installation Guide v 0.2 In-Reply-To: <1098659386.24681.207156988@webmail.messagingengine.com> Message-ID: <20041026202602.99172.qmail@web8505.mail.in.yahoo.com> Hi You should probably add the instructions to download and burn a ISO or link to appropriate documentation.Many users are unsure of which ISO's are needed. Specifically make sure you explain to them that the images containing srpms are NOT required and how many images and required for the basic installation. It would very useful to include instructions for burning a image from Windows also http://linuxiso.org/viewdoc.php/isofaq.html The above seems to fit the needs well. " Fedora Core does not support installation with diskettes." I suppose you mean floppy disks here. Make sure the language is more explicit throughout the guide "No changes are made to your computer until package installation commences." " The Fedora installation system has three elements" Non native speakers would probably appreciate a more basic form. replace commences with starts and elements with parts of something similar. This applies for the whole documentation "Insert CD 1 into the CD or DVD drive." The user has an option to download and use the DVD so it should be something like "Insert the first CD/DVD into the CD/DVD drive" SELinux is likely to be transparent to the end users but administrators who are new to the concept would certainly want to learn better about it and it is NOT transparent to them in all occasions. This is one of the reasons why I wanted you to link to the selinux faq http://fedora.redhat.com/docs/selinux-faq-fc2/ http://fedora.redhat.com/docs/selinux-faq-fc3test2/ "You can also launch the system administration tools included in Fedora Core from any user account using the root password." This would be a more precise version. "It is recommended that you use user system as a normal(non root)user. Any system administration tools in the graphical user interface would prompt for a root password if its required" Make sure you mention that the configuration stuff that is setup using the "setup agent" is OPTIONAL. This is one of the reasons why firstboot has been split up from anaconda "If you have to reconfigure the sound card later, you can use the system-config-soundcard utility. This is the menu item System Settings->Soundcard Detection." make sure you mention the menu item first and follow it by command line equivalents wherever appropriate. we should be targetting end users who are comfortable using the GUI better I request you put up screenshots wherever applicable atleast temporarily. It would help me associate the content with the appropriate screens better.(just for review purposes) regards Rahul Sundaram __________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? Yahoo! Mail - You care about security. So do we. http://promotions.yahoo.com/new_mail From rahulsundaram at yahoo.co.in Tue Oct 26 22:10:45 2004 From: rahulsundaram at yahoo.co.in (Rahul Sundaram) Date: Tue, 26 Oct 2004 15:10:45 -0700 (PDT) Subject: Installation Guide v 0.2 In-Reply-To: <1098828403.31376.9.camel@bettie.internal.frields.org> Message-ID: <20041026221045.50789.qmail@web8508.mail.in.yahoo.com> Hi > > No slashes please -- try: "Insert the first disc > into the CD or DVD > drive." (Notice that "disc" is generic.) Well. I just noticed that there is just one DVD and this might possibly lead to confusion as to whether they are several. If we can avoid that, it would be a better version Author, Please include your email address upfront in the document for public feedback. regards Rahul Sundaram __________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? Take Yahoo! Mail with you! Get it on your mobile phone. http://mobile.yahoo.com/maildemo From paul at frields.com Wed Oct 27 11:58:50 2004 From: paul at frields.com (Paul W. Frields) Date: Wed, 27 Oct 2004 07:58:50 -0400 Subject: Installation Guide v 0.2 In-Reply-To: <20041026221045.50789.qmail@web8508.mail.in.yahoo.com> References: <20041026221045.50789.qmail@web8508.mail.in.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <1098878330.2551.6.camel@berlin.east.gov> On Tue, 2004-10-26 at 18:10, Rahul Sundaram wrote: > > No slashes please -- try: "Insert the first disc > > into the CD or DVD > > drive." (Notice that "disc" is generic.) > > Well. I just noticed that there is just one DVD and > this might possibly lead to confusion as to whether > they are several. If we can avoid that, it would be a > better version I would hate saying "Insert the first CD or DVD into the CD or DVD drive," since it implies, even though we all know it won't work, that you could put a DVD into a CD drive. :-) We should probably take it as axiomatic that the first disc in a series of one is the disc itself and no other. Argh! I sense a metaphysical argument coming on... must... resist... temptation...! -- Paul W. Frields, RHCE From s.ellis at fastmail.co.uk Wed Oct 27 23:09:11 2004 From: s.ellis at fastmail.co.uk (Stuart Ellis) Date: Thu, 28 Oct 2004 00:09:11 +0100 Subject: Installation Guide v 0.3 Message-ID: <1098918551.27956.207415472@webmail.messagingengine.com> I'm going away for a couple of days, so this release is to update the guide with the changes suggested so far. DocBook: http://www.se.clara.net/fedora/fedora-install-guide-0.3.tar.gz HTML: http://www.se.clara.net/fedora/fedora-install-guide-en/index.html - The term "disc" replaces "CD" in all sections, to address DVD installations. - The text of the Root Password section has been altered. - Text of Tip boxes for Setup Agent sections has been altered to avoid use of the passive voice. - Various other minor amendments. - Configuring Network Installation Servers has been updated to include NFS. -- Stuart Ellis s.ellis at fastmail.co.uk From s.ellis at fastmail.co.uk Wed Oct 27 23:59:46 2004 From: s.ellis at fastmail.co.uk (Stuart Ellis) Date: Thu, 28 Oct 2004 00:59:46 +0100 Subject: Installation Guide v 0.2 In-Reply-To: <20041026202541.1703.qmail@web8509.mail.in.yahoo.com> References: <20041026202541.1703.qmail@web8509.mail.in.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <1098921586.31505.207416086@webmail.messagingengine.com> On Tue, 26 Oct 2004 13:25:41 -0700 (PDT), "Rahul Sundaram" <rahulsundaram at yahoo.co.in> said: > You should probably add the instructions to download > and burn a ISO or link to appropriate > documentation.Many users are unsure of which ISO's are > needed. I'll write in a clarification of exactly which discs are needed to carry out an installation. I'm not sure that people will look at the Installation Guide until after they have the distribution, so step-by-step instructions might be better as a separate document that download sites can link to. > " Fedora Core does not support installation with > diskettes." > > I suppose you mean floppy disks here. Make sure the > language is more explicit throughout the guide Yes. "Discs" for CD and DVD, "diskettes" for floppy disks, because "discs" and "disks" would be bad. I think that I got this from GNOME. "CD 1" for the first disc in the set, from Red Hat docs. In 0.3 the term "discs" is now used consistently, and the phrase "the first disc" suggested by Paul is used instead of "CD 1". > Non native speakers would probably appreciate a more > basic form. replace commences with starts and elements > with parts of something similar. This applies for the > whole documentation This is a very good point. I've amended these to say "starts" and "components", and will go through the text to try to remove any words that may not translate well. This is hard for me to judge as a native English speaker, so please let me know if you see any more problems like this in later versions. > SELinux is likely to be transparent to the end users > but administrators who are new to the concept would > certainly want to learn better about it and it is NOT > transparent to them in all occasions. I agree. My concern is that putting links in the main text may overemphasise their importance, and give the impression that the user must go away and read these docs before they can carry out an installation. So I'm going to draft some kind of "Further Reading" section to see what could be done, but I haven't worked out the details yet. It may work better in another format than the Installation Guide. > "You can also launch the system administration tools > included in Fedora Core from any user account using > the root password." I've revised the text of the section - hopefully the new version is better. > Make sure you mention that the configuration stuff > that is setup using the "setup agent" is OPTIONAL. > This is one of the reasons why firstboot has been > split up from anaconda I used the phrase "enables you to configure" because you are right that the user can just click "Next" and do nothing else. I don't think that they can avoid going through these screens if they selected a graphical system. > I request you put up screenshots wherever applicable > atleast temporarily. It would help me associate the > content with the appropriate screens better.(just for > review purposes) Unfortunately, it would probably take me as long to prepare a complete set of bad screenshots as for somebody else with more experience to make the good set. -- Stuart Ellis s.ellis at fastmail.co.uk From pnasrat at redhat.com Fri Oct 29 09:32:20 2004 From: pnasrat at redhat.com (Paul Nasrat) Date: Fri, 29 Oct 2004 10:32:20 +0100 Subject: Installation Guide v 0.2 In-Reply-To: <1098921586.31505.207416086@webmail.messagingengine.com> References: <20041026202541.1703.qmail@web8509.mail.in.yahoo.com> <1098921586.31505.207416086@webmail.messagingengine.com> Message-ID: <1099042340.4720.3.camel@anu.eridu> On Thu, 2004-10-28 at 00:59 +0100, Stuart Ellis wrote: > On Tue, 26 Oct 2004 13:25:41 -0700 (PDT), "Rahul Sundaram" > <rahulsundaram at yahoo.co.in> said: > > I request you put up screenshots wherever applicable > > atleast temporarily. It would help me associate the > > content with the appropriate screens better.(just for > > review purposes) > > Unfortunately, it would probably take me as long to prepare a complete > set of bad screenshots as for somebody else with more experience to make > the good set. I'll get either myself or one of the installer team to do this for next week sometime. It is fairly straightforward with kickstart and: autostep --autoscreenshot Paul From byte at aeon.com.my Sat Oct 30 07:32:29 2004 From: byte at aeon.com.my (Colin Charles) Date: Sat, 30 Oct 2004 17:32:29 +1000 Subject: Installation Guide v 0.2 In-Reply-To: <1099042340.4720.3.camel@anu.eridu> References: <20041026202541.1703.qmail@web8509.mail.in.yahoo.com> <1098921586.31505.207416086@webmail.messagingengine.com> <1099042340.4720.3.camel@anu.eridu> Message-ID: <1099121549.21313.11.camel@hermione.soho.bytebot.net> On Fri, 2004-10-29 at 10:32 +0100, Paul Nasrat wrote: > > Unfortunately, it would probably take me as long to prepare a complete > > set of bad screenshots as for somebody else with more experience to make > > the good set. > > I'll get either myself or one of the installer team to do this for next > week sometime. It is fairly straightforward with kickstart and: > > autostep --autoscreenshot Didn't do it that way, but I've got lots of screenshots that I took for the book, that would be usable I'm sure: http://www.bytebot.net/universe/fedora/installation/ Happy usage. First screen needs to be fixed, which I'll presume will be fixed soon. I'll rsync the changes once that happens... sorry about the further subdirectories, because those take things in a little deeper (so am guessing, its better than --autoscreenshot :P) -- Colin Charles, byte at aeon.com.my http://www.bytebot.net/ "First they ignore you, then they laugh at you, then they fight you, then you win." -- Mohandas Gandhi