From stuart at elsn.org Wed Jun 1 21:39:47 2005 From: stuart at elsn.org (Stuart Ellis) Date: Wed, 01 Jun 2005 22:39:47 +0100 Subject: Imported into CVS - "Software Management with Yum" Message-ID: <1117661987.4296.11.camel@humboldt.eln.lan> Tracking Bug: 155190 This is now in CVS as the module "yum-software-management". Post-import test checkout and build worked successfully. -- Stuart Ellis stuart at elsn.org Fedora Documentation Project: http://fedora.redhat.com/projects/docs/ GPG key ID: 7098ABEA GPG key fingerprint: 68B0 E291 FB19 C845 E60E 9569 292E E365 7098 ABEA -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: signature.asc Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 189 bytes Desc: This is a digitally signed message part URL: From kwade at redhat.com Thu Jun 2 00:04:08 2005 From: kwade at redhat.com (Karsten Wade) Date: Wed, 01 Jun 2005 17:04:08 -0700 Subject: Regression alert for redhat.xsl (was Re: xsl redhat.xsl,1.1,1.2) In-Reply-To: <200506012358.j51NwTIW014079@cvs-int.fedora.redhat.com> References: <200506012358.j51NwTIW014079@cvs-int.fedora.redhat.com> Message-ID: <1117670648.29735.166.camel@erato.phig.org> For those not on the commits list ... or overwhelmed by the entries this week ... I checked in a change to redhat.xsl that caused a build error in the install-guide module. This change to the XSL had been to support the no-chunking (single HTML file output from DocBook) that James Laska patched. The no-chunking is working great, but this particular change isn't. This is me checking my local 1.2 against the 1.3 version that caused the regression: [kwade at erato xsl]$ diff -u redhat.xsl.~1.2.~ redhat.xsl --- redhat.xsl.~1.2.~ 2003-10-01 12:02:56.000000000 -0700 +++ redhat.xsl 2005-05-30 12:05:47.000000000 -0700 @@ -7,7 +7,6 @@ version="1.0" exclude-result-prefixes="exsl"> - I reverted the XSL to 1.2 and tried it out locally. Both the Installation Guide (chunking) and the Release Notes (no-chunking) built ok. For the FC4 release, those are the only two we care about. James, what problems did you have with the docbook.xsl being imported at that point in redhat.xsl? - Karsten On Wed, 2005-06-01 at 19:58 -0400, Karsten Wade wrote: > Author: kwade > > Update of /cvs/docs/xsl > In directory cvs-int.fedora.redhat.com:/tmp/cvs-serv14057 > > Modified Files: > redhat.xsl > Log Message: > This is probably the wrong way to do this, I reverted to 1.1 when I > meant to rever to 1.2, so I am now recommitting 1.2. The version in > 1.3 caused a regression in the Installation Guide and I'm sure all > other guides. Ver. 1.3 had removed the import of docbook.xsl, which > caused the build to fail. I tested this version 1.2 on release- > notes/FC4/ and the install-guide/ and it seems to work with chunking > and non-chunking. I will talk with jlaska and find out why he removed > this call ... I know it broke something for them. Further regressions > are a possibility, just hopefully not in the only two documents that > we *must* have build for FC4. > > > Index: redhat.xsl > =================================================================== > RCS file: /cvs/docs/xsl/redhat.xsl,v > retrieving revision 1.1 > retrieving revision 1.2 > diff -u -r1.1 -r1.2 > --- redhat.xsl 17 Jul 2003 19:48:07 -0000 1.1 > +++ redhat.xsl 1 Jun 2005 23:58:27 -0000 1.2 > @@ -1,4 +1,4 @@ > - > + > > -- Karsten Wade, RHCE * Sr. Tech Writer * http://people.redhat.com/kwade/ gpg fingerprint: 2680 DBFD D968 3141 0115 5F1B D992 0E06 AD0E 0C41 Red Hat SELinux Guide http://www.redhat.com/docs/manuals/enterprise/RHEL-4-Manual/selinux-guide/ -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: signature.asc Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 189 bytes Desc: This is a digitally signed message part URL: From kwade at redhat.com Thu Jun 2 00:25:52 2005 From: kwade at redhat.com (Karsten Wade) Date: Wed, 01 Jun 2005 17:25:52 -0700 Subject: common legalnotice-en.xml,1.7,1.8 In-Reply-To: <200505302030.j4UKUUE8029592@cvs-int.fedora.redhat.com> References: <200505302030.j4UKUUE8029592@cvs-int.fedora.redhat.com> Message-ID: <1117671952.29735.172.camel@erato.phig.org> On Mon, 2005-05-30 at 16:30 -0400, Tommy Reynolds wrote: > Modified Files: > legalnotice-en.xml > Log Message: > Added explicit FC usage notice about the callout graphics I've added. Just a note to all writers, make sure you do 'cvs up' in the common directories: css/ common/ xsl/ stylesheet-images/ There is some new XSL that supports no-chunks HTML (main-html- nochunks.xsl) and an updated legalnotice. For these common directories, it is worth replying to your own commit message so that fedora-docs-list gets notice of the change. Everyone who writes and edits is supposed to be on the fedora-docs-commits list, but you can't expect them to read _all_ the messages. :) I included this practice in the (currently canonical) Wiki notes, which will get into the Documentation Guide RSN. > > > Index: legalnotice-en.xml > =================================================================== > RCS file: /cvs/docs/common/legalnotice-en.xml,v > retrieving revision 1.7 > retrieving revision 1.8 > diff -u -r1.7 -r1.8 > --- legalnotice-en.xml 21 Dec 2003 21:01:51 -0000 1.7 > +++ legalnotice-en.xml 30 May 2005 20:30:27 -0000 1.8 > @@ -1,3 +1,12 @@ > + > + > > > > @@ -19,7 +28,9 @@ > > > Garrett LeSage created the admonition graphics (note, tip, important, > - caution, and warning). They may be freely redistributed with documentation > + caution, and warning). > + Tommy Reynolds Tommy.Reynolds at MegaCoder.com created the callout graphics. > + They all may be freely redistributed with documentation > produced for the &PROJECT;. > > > > -- > Fedora-docs-commits mailing list > Fedora-docs-commits at redhat.com > https://www.redhat.com/mailman/listinfo/fedora-docs-commits -- Karsten Wade, RHCE * Sr. Tech Writer * http://people.redhat.com/kwade/ gpg fingerprint: 2680 DBFD D968 3141 0115 5F1B D992 0E06 AD0E 0C41 Red Hat SELinux Guide http://www.redhat.com/docs/manuals/enterprise/RHEL-4-Manual/selinux-guide/ -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: signature.asc Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 189 bytes Desc: This is a digitally signed message part URL: From kwade at redhat.com Thu Jun 2 01:43:40 2005 From: kwade at redhat.com (Karsten Wade) Date: Wed, 01 Jun 2005 18:43:40 -0700 Subject: fedora-entities-en.xml deprecated Message-ID: <1117676620.12368.7.camel@erato.phig.org> We need to use the new file in common/fedora-entities-en.ent. This should be a single line change in your parent XML file: becomes I forgot who mentioned this or even if there is a bug report for it. It's just one of those small Right Way To Do Things we can fix easily. The deprecated file will remain for a short while, but ALL DEVELOPMENT WORK WILL STOP. I don't want to port over changes made to the *.ent file. We have such a small documentation set this is the easy, painless time to make this change. cheers - Karsten -- Karsten Wade, RHCE * Sr. Tech Writer * http://people.redhat.com/kwade/ gpg fingerprint: 2680 DBFD D968 3141 0115 5F1B D992 0E06 AD0E 0C41 Red Hat SELinux Guide http://www.redhat.com/docs/manuals/enterprise/RHEL-4-Manual/selinux-guide/ -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: signature.asc Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 189 bytes Desc: This is a digitally signed message part URL: From romttrom at ybb.ne.jp Thu Jun 2 04:55:15 2005 From: romttrom at ybb.ne.jp (Yoshihiro Totaka) Date: Thu, 02 Jun 2005 13:55:15 +0900 Subject: copyrights of wiki contents Message-ID: <429E9133.1040003@ybb.ne.jp> Hi, I may be wrong to ask this question here (if so I apologise), but I am wondering about the copyright of wiki contents. Wiki document is getting more and more popular in fedora document, and I am wondering whether I am allowed to modify(translate) some of the documents. Can I assume those document similar to wikipedea's copyrights(GFDL)? http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Copyrights -- No virus found in this outgoing message. Checked by AVG Anti-Virus. Version: 7.0.322 / Virus Database: 267.4.0 - Release Date: 2005/06/01 From ajchida at gmail.com Thu Jun 2 06:31:26 2005 From: ajchida at gmail.com (Chidananda Jayakeerti) Date: Wed, 1 Jun 2005 23:31:26 -0700 Subject: Fedora Docuumentation Guide as PDF? Message-ID: <71b7a98905060123314c5e26a4@mail.gmail.com> Hello all, Is there a PDF version of Fedora Documentation Guide available for download? This would make it easier to print a hardcopy for reference. Source for the document is fine too. Thanks in advance, Chida From jlaska at redhat.com Thu Jun 2 12:17:13 2005 From: jlaska at redhat.com (James Laska) Date: Thu, 02 Jun 2005 08:17:13 -0400 Subject: Regression alert for redhat.xsl (was Re: xsl redhat.xsl,1.1,1.2) In-Reply-To: <1117670648.29735.166.camel@erato.phig.org> References: <200506012358.j51NwTIW014079@cvs-int.fedora.redhat.com> <1117670648.29735.166.camel@erato.phig.org> Message-ID: <1117714633.11246.12.camel@flatline.devel.redhat.com> Hi Karsten, With the xsl changes I submitted, the import of docbook.xsl happens only in main-html-nochunk.xsl. While main-html-chunks.xsl imports chunk.xsl. >From what I could see online (through docbook doc and google searches), we only needed one system import in our custom xsl. So I replaced the following three imports in the original main-html.xsl: with just ... My rough understanding was that the local imports need to come after the system imports so that the local settings overload system-wide settings. So I think the order and type of imports in main-html.xsl is incorrect. If you look inside chunk.xsl ... it already imports docbook.xsl, chunk-common.xsl, manifest.xsl, and chunk-code.xsl. I modified all our Makefile's to use the new main-html-chunk.xsl and main-html-nochunk.xsl. That would be my recommendation going forward. Thoughts? James Laska On Wed, 2005-06-01 at 17:04 -0700, Karsten Wade wrote: > For those not on the commits list ... or overwhelmed by the entries this > week ... > > I checked in a change to redhat.xsl that caused a build error in the > install-guide module. This change to the XSL had been to support the > no-chunking (single HTML file output from DocBook) that James Laska > patched. The no-chunking is working great, but this particular change > isn't. This is me checking my local 1.2 against the 1.3 version that > caused the regression: > > [kwade at erato xsl]$ diff -u redhat.xsl.~1.2.~ redhat.xsl > --- redhat.xsl.~1.2.~ 2003-10-01 12:02:56.000000000 -0700 > +++ redhat.xsl 2005-05-30 12:05:47.000000000 -0700 > @@ -7,7 +7,6 @@ > version="1.0" > exclude-result-prefixes="exsl"> > > - > > > > > I reverted the XSL to 1.2 and tried it out locally. Both the > Installation Guide (chunking) and the Release Notes (no-chunking) built > ok. For the FC4 release, those are the only two we care about. > > James, what problems did you have with the docbook.xsl being imported at > that point in redhat.xsl? > > - Karsten > On Wed, 2005-06-01 at 19:58 -0400, Karsten Wade wrote: > > Author: kwade > > > > Update of /cvs/docs/xsl > > In directory cvs-int.fedora.redhat.com:/tmp/cvs-serv14057 > > > > Modified Files: > > redhat.xsl > > Log Message: > > This is probably the wrong way to do this, I reverted to 1.1 when I > > meant to rever to 1.2, so I am now recommitting 1.2. The version in > > 1.3 caused a regression in the Installation Guide and I'm sure all > > other guides. Ver. 1.3 had removed the import of docbook.xsl, which > > caused the build to fail. I tested this version 1.2 on release- > > notes/FC4/ and the install-guide/ and it seems to work with chunking > > and non-chunking. I will talk with jlaska and find out why he removed > > this call ... I know it broke something for them. Further regressions > > are a possibility, just hopefully not in the only two documents that > > we *must* have build for FC4. > > > > > > Index: redhat.xsl > > =================================================================== > > RCS file: /cvs/docs/xsl/redhat.xsl,v > > retrieving revision 1.1 > > retrieving revision 1.2 > > diff -u -r1.1 -r1.2 > > --- redhat.xsl 17 Jul 2003 19:48:07 -0000 1.1 > > +++ redhat.xsl 1 Jun 2005 23:58:27 -0000 1.2 > > @@ -1,4 +1,4 @@ > > - > > + > > > > > > > > -- > fedora-docs-list mailing list > fedora-docs-list at redhat.com > To unsubscribe: > http://www.redhat.com/mailman/listinfo/fedora-docs-list From stickster at gmail.com Thu Jun 2 12:16:41 2005 From: stickster at gmail.com (Paul W. Frields) Date: Thu, 02 Jun 2005 08:16:41 -0400 Subject: Fedora Docuumentation Guide as PDF? In-Reply-To: <71b7a98905060123314c5e26a4@mail.gmail.com> References: <71b7a98905060123314c5e26a4@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <1117714602.6929.11.camel@localhost.localdomain> On Wed, 2005-06-01 at 23:31 -0700, Chidananda Jayakeerti wrote: > Hello all, > > Is there a PDF version of Fedora Documentation Guide available for > download? > > This would make it easier to print a hardcopy for reference. > > Source for the document is fine too. PDF building is just a bit problematic right now -- maybe only for some documents -- although I believe people are or will soon be working on this. You can download the DocBook XML source using the "CVS Access" instructions found at: http://fedora.redhat.com/projects/docs/ The module to check out is "documentation-guide". -- Paul W. Frields, RHCE http://paul.frields.org/ gpg fingerprint: 3DA6 A0AC 6D58 FEC4 0233 5906 ACDB C937 BD11 3717 Fedora Documentation Project: http://fedora.redhat.com/projects/docs/ -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: signature.asc Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 189 bytes Desc: This is a digitally signed message part URL: From ajchida at gmail.com Thu Jun 2 17:46:50 2005 From: ajchida at gmail.com (Chidananda Jayakeerti) Date: Thu, 2 Jun 2005 10:46:50 -0700 Subject: Fedora HCL guide writers? Message-ID: <71b7a98905060210463d488f47@mail.gmail.com> Hello, I always wished I could lookup Fedora HCL before making hardware purchasing decisions and lack of availability of such a guide pushed me to googling. I have a crude list of Fedora HCL that I built from experience. T From ajchida at gmail.com Thu Jun 2 17:50:49 2005 From: ajchida at gmail.com (Chidananda Jayakeerti) Date: Thu, 2 Jun 2005 10:50:49 -0700 Subject: Fedora HCL guide writers? Message-ID: <71b7a989050602105064dccdf8@mail.gmail.com> Hello, I have been resorting to "googling" for Fedora HCL due to the lack of such a guide. I have a crude list of hardware list built from experience. This is in no means a official HCL and has very few hardware. However, looking at https://bugzilla.redhat.com/bugzilla/show_bug.cgi?id=129784 I realise i might as well start off an official one. Are there any writiers understaking such a task? How do I go about starting one? I could do the SelfIntroduction stuff (although i'm not too comfortable reveling my residence address to a mailing list :). Any comments are appreciated. Chida From jlaska at redhat.com Thu Jun 2 17:53:30 2005 From: jlaska at redhat.com (James Laska) Date: Thu, 02 Jun 2005 13:53:30 -0400 Subject: common/Makefile.common Message-ID: <1117734810.11246.36.camel@flatline.devel.redhat.com> Hello folks, I've been maintaining a mirror of the fedora-docs/{common,css,stylesheet-images,xsl} for internal Red Hat pubs. I've found that it can be somewhat annoying to maintain pretty much the same Makefile across all the documents. I therefore created "common/Makefile.common" which does all the hard work. All that is required at this point is that a document include the common makefile and establish 2 mandatory variables: =================================== NAME := install-guide LANG := en include ../common/Makefile.common =================================== There are optional arguments for those wishing to override or add xsltproc parameters. Those optional variables are: XSLTPROC_HTMLARGS, XSLTPROC_NOCHUNKARGS, XSLTPROC_PDFARGS, XSLTPROC_ARGS. I have attached Makefile.common to this email for review as well. I have not yet filed a bugzilla for this, because I first wanted to solicit fedora-docs-list feedback. Thoughts/concerns/feedback? Thanks, James Laska -- ========================================== James Laska -- jlaska at redhat.com Quality Engineering -- Red Hat, Inc. ========================================== -------------- next part -------------- ############################################################################### # Makefile.common for QA Docs # $Id$ ############################################################################### ifndef NAME $(error "You can not run this Makefile without having NAME defined") endif ifndef LANG $(error "You can not run this Makefile without having LANG defined") endif XSLPDF = ../xsl/main-pdf.xsl XSLHTML_CHUNKS = ../xsl/main-html-chunks.xsl XSLHTML_NOCHUNKS = ../xsl/main-html-nochunks.xsl DOCNAME = $(NAME)-$(LANG) XMLFILE = $(DOCNAME).xml XSLTPROC_HTMLARGS = XSLTPROC_NOCHUNKARGS = XSLTPROC_PDFARGS = XSLTPROC_ARGS = txt: TMPFILE = $(shell mktemp /tmp/$(DOCNAME).XXXXXX) ###################################################### html: @mkdir -p $(DOCNAME) @xsltproc $(XSLTPROC_ARGS) $(XSLTPROC_HTMLARGS) -o $(DOCNAME)/ $(XSLHTML_CHUNKS) $(XMLFILE) @mkdir -p $(DOCNAME)/stylesheet-images $(DOCNAME)/figs @cp ../stylesheet-images/*.png $(DOCNAME)/stylesheet-images @cp ../css/fedora.css $(DOCNAME) @test -d figs && cp -r figs/ $(DOCNAME)/ || test 1 html-nochunks: @mkdir -p $(DOCNAME) @xsltproc $(XSLTPROC_ARGS) $(XSLTPROC_NOCHUNKARGS) -o $(DOCNAME)/$(DOCNAME).html $(XSLHTML_NOCHUNKS) $(XMLFILE) @mkdir -p $(DOCNAME)/stylesheet-images $(DOCNAME)/figs @cp ../stylesheet-images/*.png $(DOCNAME)/stylesheet-images @cp ../css/fedora.css $(DOCNAME) @test -d figs && cp -r figs/ $(DOCNAME)/ || test 1 pdf: @mkdir -p $(DOCNAME) @xsltproc $(XSLTPROC_ARGS) $(XSLTPROC_PDFARGS) -o $(DOCNAME)/$(DOCNAME).pdf $(XSLPDF) $(XMLFILE) txt: @mkdir -p $(DOCNAME) @xsltproc $(XSLTPROC_ARGS) $(XSLTPROC_NOCHUNKARGS) -o $(TMPFILE) $(XSLHTML_NOCHUNKS) $(XMLFILE) @links -force-html -dump $(TMPFILE) > $(DOCNAME)/$(DOCNAME).txt @rm -f $(TMPFILE) all: html html-nochunks pdf txt ###################################################### clean: @rm -rfv *.html *.pdf *.tex $(DOCNAME) From kwade at redhat.com Thu Jun 2 17:57:04 2005 From: kwade at redhat.com (Karsten Wade) Date: Thu, 02 Jun 2005 10:57:04 -0700 Subject: Regression alert for redhat.xsl (was Re: xsl redhat.xsl,1.1,1.2) In-Reply-To: <1117714633.11246.12.camel@flatline.devel.redhat.com> References: <200506012358.j51NwTIW014079@cvs-int.fedora.redhat.com> <1117670648.29735.166.camel@erato.phig.org> <1117714633.11246.12.camel@flatline.devel.redhat.com> Message-ID: <1117735024.12368.23.camel@erato.phig.org> On Thu, 2005-06-02 at 08:17 -0400, James Laska wrote: > > My rough understanding was that the local imports need to come after the > system imports so that the local settings overload system-wide settings. > So I think the order and type of imports in main-html.xsl is incorrect. > If you look inside chunk.xsl ... it already imports docbook.xsl, > chunk-common.xsl, manifest.xsl, and chunk-code.xsl. I modified all our > Makefile's to use the new main-html-chunk.xsl and main-html-nochunk.xsl. > That would be my recommendation going forward. OK, I think the problem is dropping the import of docbook.xsl from redhat.xsl *and* using the current Makefile + main-html.xsl. main- html.xsl doesn't call docbook.xsl, it relied upon redhat.xsl to do that. Here's what we'll do: * I'm going to check in a new main-html.xsl that imports docbook.xsl * I'm going to revert redhat.xsl to not import docbook.xsl, so nochunks works right * Within the next week we're going to write master Makefile and put it in common/. Everyone will need to upgrade to that going forward. * When that new Makefile is up, we'll deprecate the older Makefile as well as main-html.xsl -and- the redhat.xsl that imports docbook.xsl. What should you do? You can likely wait a week and get the new stuff. If you want no chunking right away, you can update to the new stuff in xsl/ and try out the temporary master Makefile I will put there. cheers - Karsten > Thoughts? > James Laska > > > > On Wed, 2005-06-01 at 17:04 -0700, Karsten Wade wrote: > > For those not on the commits list ... or overwhelmed by the entries this > > week ... > > > > I checked in a change to redhat.xsl that caused a build error in the > > install-guide module. This change to the XSL had been to support the > > no-chunking (single HTML file output from DocBook) that James Laska > > patched. The no-chunking is working great, but this particular change > > isn't. This is me checking my local 1.2 against the 1.3 version that > > caused the regression: > > > > [kwade at erato xsl]$ diff -u redhat.xsl.~1.2.~ redhat.xsl > > --- redhat.xsl.~1.2.~ 2003-10-01 12:02:56.000000000 -0700 > > +++ redhat.xsl 2005-05-30 12:05:47.000000000 -0700 > > @@ -7,7 +7,6 @@ > > version="1.0" > > exclude-result-prefixes="exsl"> > > > > - > > > > > > > > > > I reverted the XSL to 1.2 and tried it out locally. Both the > > Installation Guide (chunking) and the Release Notes (no-chunking) built > > ok. For the FC4 release, those are the only two we care about. > > > > James, what problems did you have with the docbook.xsl being imported at > > that point in redhat.xsl? > > > > - Karsten > > On Wed, 2005-06-01 at 19:58 -0400, Karsten Wade wrote: > > > Author: kwade > > > > > > Update of /cvs/docs/xsl > > > In directory cvs-int.fedora.redhat.com:/tmp/cvs-serv14057 > > > > > > Modified Files: > > > redhat.xsl > > > Log Message: > > > This is probably the wrong way to do this, I reverted to 1.1 when I > > > meant to rever to 1.2, so I am now recommitting 1.2. The version in > > > 1.3 caused a regression in the Installation Guide and I'm sure all > > > other guides. Ver. 1.3 had removed the import of docbook.xsl, which > > > caused the build to fail. I tested this version 1.2 on release- > > > notes/FC4/ and the install-guide/ and it seems to work with chunking > > > and non-chunking. I will talk with jlaska and find out why he removed > > > this call ... I know it broke something for them. Further regressions > > > are a possibility, just hopefully not in the only two documents that > > > we *must* have build for FC4. > > > > > > > > > Index: redhat.xsl > > > =================================================================== > > > RCS file: /cvs/docs/xsl/redhat.xsl,v > > > retrieving revision 1.1 > > > retrieving revision 1.2 > > > diff -u -r1.1 -r1.2 > > > --- redhat.xsl 17 Jul 2003 19:48:07 -0000 1.1 > > > +++ redhat.xsl 1 Jun 2005 23:58:27 -0000 1.2 > > > @@ -1,4 +1,4 @@ > > > - > > > + > > > > > > > > > > > > > > -- > > fedora-docs-list mailing list > > fedora-docs-list at redhat.com > > To unsubscribe: > > http://www.redhat.com/mailman/listinfo/fedora-docs-list > -- Karsten Wade, RHCE * Sr. Tech Writer * http://people.redhat.com/kwade/ gpg fingerprint: 2680 DBFD D968 3141 0115 5F1B D992 0E06 AD0E 0C41 Red Hat SELinux Guide http://www.redhat.com/docs/manuals/enterprise/RHEL-4-Manual/selinux-guide/ -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: signature.asc Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 189 bytes Desc: This is a digitally signed message part URL: From jlaska at redhat.com Thu Jun 2 18:14:59 2005 From: jlaska at redhat.com (James Laska) Date: Thu, 02 Jun 2005 14:14:59 -0400 Subject: common/Makefile.common In-Reply-To: <1117734810.11246.36.camel@flatline.devel.redhat.com> References: <1117734810.11246.36.camel@flatline.devel.redhat.com> Message-ID: <1117736099.11246.39.camel@flatline.devel.redhat.com> Oops, the common/Makefile.common attached in the previous email has a typo: --- /tmp/Makefile.common 2005-06-02 14:12:19.000000000 -0400 +++ ../common/Makefile.common 2005-06-02 14:12:39.000000000 -0400 @@ -16,10 +16,10 @@ DOCNAME = $(NAME)-$(LANG) XMLFILE = $(DOCNAME).xml -XSLTPROC_HTMLARGS = -XSLTPROC_NOCHUNKARGS = -XSLTPROC_PDFARGS = -XSLTPROC_ARGS = +XSLTPROC_HTMLARGS ?= +XSLTPROC_NOCHUNKARGS ?= +XSLTPROC_PDFARGS ?= +XSLTPROC_ARGS ?= txt: TMPFILE = $(shell mktemp /tmp/$(DOCNAME).XXXXXX) And any documents wishing to pass additional XSLPROC_*ARGS can do so like: ========================== NAME := some-manual LANG := en XSLTPROC_ARGS = --stringparam target.database.document olinkdb.xml XSLTPROC_ARGS += --stringparam current.docid $(NAME)-$(LANG) XSLTPROC_ARGS += --stringparam generate.toc "article nop" include ../common/Makefile.common ========================== Sorry for any confusion, James Laska On Thu, 2005-06-02 at 13:53 -0400, James Laska wrote: > Hello folks, > > I've been maintaining a mirror of the > fedora-docs/{common,css,stylesheet-images,xsl} for internal Red Hat > pubs. I've found that it can be somewhat annoying to maintain pretty > much the same Makefile across all the documents. I therefore created > "common/Makefile.common" which does all the hard work. All that is > required at this point is that a document include the common makefile > and establish 2 mandatory variables: > > =================================== > NAME := install-guide > LANG := en > > include ../common/Makefile.common > =================================== > > There are optional arguments for those wishing to override or add > xsltproc parameters. Those optional variables are: XSLTPROC_HTMLARGS, > XSLTPROC_NOCHUNKARGS, XSLTPROC_PDFARGS, XSLTPROC_ARGS. > > I have attached Makefile.common to this email for review as well. I > have not yet filed a bugzilla for this, because I first wanted to > solicit fedora-docs-list feedback. > > Thoughts/concerns/feedback? > > Thanks, > James Laska > -- > fedora-docs-list mailing list > fedora-docs-list at redhat.com > To unsubscribe: > http://www.redhat.com/mailman/listinfo/fedora-docs-list From kwade at redhat.com Thu Jun 2 18:25:02 2005 From: kwade at redhat.com (Karsten Wade) Date: Thu, 02 Jun 2005 11:25:02 -0700 Subject: Fedora-docs-commits Digest, Vol 2, Issue 46 In-Reply-To: <1117717687.6929.40.camel@localhost.localdomain> References: <20050530205250.20DEB72ED2@hormel.redhat.com> <1117717687.6929.40.camel@localhost.localdomain> Message-ID: <1117736702.12368.32.camel@erato.phig.org> (moving over to f-docs-l) On Thu, 2005-06-02 at 09:08 -0400, Paul W. Frields wrote: > On Mon, 2005-05-30 at 16:52 -0400, fedora-docs-commits- > > Index: html-common.xsl > > =================================================================== > > RCS file: /cvs/docs/xsl/html-common.xsl,v > > retrieving revision 1.6 > > retrieving revision 1.7 > > diff -u -r1.6 -r1.7 > > --- html-common.xsl 17 May 2005 15:51:17 -0000 1.6 > > +++ html-common.xsl 30 May 2005 20:01:11 -0000 1.7 > > @@ -25,7 +25,10 @@ > > > > > > > > + > > > > > > text/css > > > > > > > > ------------------------------ > > Is there a reason this changed in the common area and not as some sort > of xsl override for the release notes? Sure uglies up the Install > Guide.... I made a special XSL chain for just the release notes and removed the legalnotice link, then returned the call to the standard XSL toolchain. Update to the latest Makefile for the relnotes (also unique) and xsl/, I'll be testing today but let me know if any more problems arise. - Karsten -- Karsten Wade, RHCE * Sr. Tech Writer * http://people.redhat.com/kwade/ gpg fingerprint: 2680 DBFD D968 3141 0115 5F1B D992 0E06 AD0E 0C41 Red Hat SELinux Guide http://www.redhat.com/docs/manuals/enterprise/RHEL-4-Manual/selinux-guide/ -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: signature.asc Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 189 bytes Desc: This is a digitally signed message part URL: From nman64 at n-man.com Thu Jun 2 23:20:26 2005 From: nman64 at n-man.com (Patrick Barnes) Date: Thu, 02 Jun 2005 18:20:26 -0500 Subject: Self-Introduction: Patrick W. Barnes Message-ID: <429F943A.90407@n-man.com> About Me: My name is Patrick W. Barnes My Internet nickname is "The N-Man", and thus my name will usually appear as 'Patrick "The N-Man" Barnes' I live in Amarillo, Texas (USA) I am a Systems Administrator for CTL Technologies My Goals and Qualifications: I have been using, testing, monitoring, and assisting other users and developers with the Fedora Project for some time now, and I would like to start making more active contributions. I would like to help with the Fedora Project in as many ways as possible. I have a variety of useful skills. I currently distribute the Fedora Core releases on systems my company sells, and have a great deal of exposure to end-user feedback. We also use Fedora Core releases and the Rawhide branch internally. I am a programmer and a web designer, as well as a system and network administrator. I am also an excellent writer, and that is the skill that I would like to contribute with first. I hope to improve documentation and tutorial options for users who are new to Linux and Fedora. I would also like to contribute to the user-friendly qualities of Fedora Core. My wide variety of skills and experience will allow me to write on a large variety of topics. I do an excellent job of staying on top of emerging technologies and changes occuring within the project. To start things off, I'd like to help in organizing the existing information in the Extras wiki and making the wiki more concise to reduce errors and questions and improve productivity. First, I would like to write a quick page to field some of the questions regarding Google's Summer of Code and provide information about high-interest, unmaintained (or missing) projects. Please let me know if there are any questions. I look forward to contributing. GPG data: pub 1024D/299407D8 2004-11-04 [expires: 2009-11-03] Key fingerprint = 5379 7B24 8A9D 2105 450F 6D20 741A 01EC 2994 07D8 uid Patrick W. Barnes uid Patrick W. Barnes uid Patrick W. Barnes sub 2048g/9BDA9ED4 2004-11-04 [expires: 2009-11-03] This message has been sent to both fedora-extras-list and fedora-docs-list. -- Patrick "The N-Man" Barnes nman64 at n-man.com www.n-man.com -- -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: signature.asc Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 189 bytes Desc: OpenPGP digital signature URL: From notting at redhat.com Fri Jun 3 03:21:32 2005 From: notting at redhat.com (Bill Nottingham) Date: Thu, 2 Jun 2005 23:21:32 -0400 Subject: Google's Summer of Code (new documentation submission) In-Reply-To: <429FC60D.3060900@n-man.com> References: <429FC60D.3060900@n-man.com> Message-ID: <20050603032132.GB802@nostromo.devel.redhat.com> Patrick Barnes (nman64 at n-man.com) said: > I am interested in getting a page published to assist Google's Summer of > Code participants in getting started. Fedora is one of the few mentors > on the Summer of Code page at Google that does not have a link for ideas > or to help participants get started. I have written a first draft and > published it to http://fedora.n-man.com/projects/GoogleSummer.txt . I > think that the Wiki would be the best place for this, but others might > think differently. The draft document is plain text, but has been > written with hyperlinks in mind. > > Since I don't know where this will go, and it will require a new page to > be created either way, I don't know how to proceed. Should I try for > Docs CVS access or Wiki write access? Who can decide where this page > should go, and can create the page? Any comments, suggestions, or > directions would be appreciated. > > This message has been posted to fedora-docs-list and fedora-extras-list. See http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/FedoraBounties Bill From nman64 at n-man.com Fri Jun 3 03:37:05 2005 From: nman64 at n-man.com (Patrick Barnes) Date: Thu, 02 Jun 2005 22:37:05 -0500 Subject: Google's Summer of Code (new documentation submission) In-Reply-To: <20050603032132.GB802@nostromo.devel.redhat.com> References: <429FC60D.3060900@n-man.com> <20050603032132.GB802@nostromo.devel.redhat.com> Message-ID: <429FD061.2000605@n-man.com> Bill Nottingham wrote: >Patrick Barnes (nman64 at n-man.com) said: > > >>I am interested in getting a page published to assist Google's Summer of >>Code participants in getting started. Fedora is one of the few mentors >>on the Summer of Code page at Google that does not have a link for ideas >>or to help participants get started. I have written a first draft and >>published it to http://fedora.n-man.com/projects/GoogleSummer.txt . I >>think that the Wiki would be the best place for this, but others might >>think differently. The draft document is plain text, but has been >>written with hyperlinks in mind. >> >>Since I don't know where this will go, and it will require a new page to >>be created either way, I don't know how to proceed. Should I try for >>Docs CVS access or Wiki write access? Who can decide where this page >>should go, and can create the page? Any comments, suggestions, or >>directions would be appreciated. >> >>This message has been posted to fedora-docs-list and fedora-extras-list. >> >> > >See http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/FedoraBounties > >Bill > > > Seems like a good start, at least. Does anyone with Google know about that page so that they may add it to http://code.google.com/summerofcode.html ? I've already seen several students ask questions on other mailing lists and in the IRC channels. They need to know where to go. It doesn't look good that I didn't even know about this page, as students certainly won't find it if someone who is relatively familiar with the Fedora-related sites didn't find it. -- Patrick "The N-Man" Barnes nman64 at n-man.com www.n-man.com -- -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: signature.asc Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 189 bytes Desc: OpenPGP digital signature URL: From notting at redhat.com Fri Jun 3 03:53:24 2005 From: notting at redhat.com (Bill Nottingham) Date: Thu, 2 Jun 2005 23:53:24 -0400 Subject: Google's Summer of Code (new documentation submission) In-Reply-To: <429FD061.2000605@n-man.com> References: <429FC60D.3060900@n-man.com> <20050603032132.GB802@nostromo.devel.redhat.com> <429FD061.2000605@n-man.com> Message-ID: <20050603035324.GA1504@nostromo.devel.redhat.com> Patrick Barnes (nman64 at n-man.com) said: > http://code.google.com/summerofcode.html ? I've already seen several > students ask questions on other mailing lists and in the IRC channels. They know, it will get fixed soon enough. Bill From kwade at redhat.com Fri Jun 3 04:01:36 2005 From: kwade at redhat.com (Karsten Wade) Date: Thu, 02 Jun 2005 21:01:36 -0700 Subject: changes in legalnotice entity (was Re: common legalnotice-content-en.xml, NONE, 1.1 legalnotice-relnotes-en.xml, NONE, 1.1 fedora-entities-en.ent, 1.2, 1.3 legalnotice-en.xml, 1.8, 1.9) In-Reply-To: <200506030343.j533hBhm017054@cvs-int.fedora.redhat.com> References: <200506030343.j533hBhm017054@cvs-int.fedora.redhat.com> Message-ID: <1117771296.12368.63.camel@erato.phig.org> The below check-in supports a different style of doing the legalnotice for the release notes. We need the full relnotes in one page (no chunks), but pulling the legalnotice in at the top above the ToC is ugly. It defeats our new What's New section (from Rahul) that makes this a more useful default homepage for Firefox. You shouldn't have to change anything, even after doing a 'cvs up' in common/. Your document's call to &LEGALNOTICE; will continue to do the right thing. Changes to the legalnotice now need to happen in common/legalnotice- content-en.xml. The changes below do the following: * Pull the actual content of the legalnotice into a file common/legalnotice-content-en.xml * Have legalnotice-en.xml call in the entity &LEGALNOTICE-CONTENT; * Have legalnotice-relnotes-en.xml give a one line reference to the GFDL and link to an * Within the relnotes, the new has a call to &LEGALNOTICE- CONTENT; * fedora-entities-en.ent now has ENTITY declarations for LEGALNOTICE- CONTENT and LEGALNOTICE-RELNOTES If you get this update and have *not* changed your document to call fedora-entities-en.ent (instead of fedora-entities-en.xml), this update will break your build. The entities file declares the special legalnotice content file, and this change is *not* in the deprecated fedora-entities-en.xml file. Final note: this is a hackish trick. It is not semantically correct, having the content of the legalnotice _outside_ of the container. At least, it feels wrong to me. I'll look into solving this in the XSL later. Even moving the legalnotice to appear below the ToC will be good enough. cheers - Karsten On Thu, 2005-06-02 at 23:43 -0400, Karsten Wade wrote: > Author: kwade > > Update of /cvs/docs/common > In directory cvs-int.fedora.redhat.com:/tmp/cvs-serv17035 > > Modified Files: > fedora-entities-en.ent legalnotice-en.xml > Added Files: > legalnotice-content-en.xml legalnotice-relnotes-en.xml > Log Message: > This is just a little hackish. With the legalnotice inline, it ruined the effect of the new release notes style and what's new content. These changes, plus changes to the relnotes parent, pull a special relnotes legalnotice in that has a single sentence and links to an appendix with the full legalnotice content. This is not semantically correct, there must be a way to handle this in the XSL so that the legalnotice content is properly contained throughout. This hack can stand until I find the XSL fix, because sometimes Pretty is more important than Right. > > > --- NEW FILE legalnotice-content-en.xml --- > > > Permission is granted to copy, distribute, and/or modify this document under > the terms of the GNU Free Documentation License, Version 1.2 or any later > version published by the Free Software Foundation; with no Invariant > Sections, no Front-Cover Texts, and no Back-Cover Texts. A copy of the > license is available at url="http://www.gnu.org/licenses/fdl.html">http://www.gnu.org/licenses/fdl.html. > > > > This document may be copied and distributed in any medium, either > commercially or noncommercially, provided that the GNU Free Documentation > License (FDL), the copyright notices, and the license notice saying the GNU > FDL applies to the document are reproduced in all copies, and that you add > no other conditions whatsoever to those of the GNU FDL. > > > > Garrett LeSage created the admonition graphics (note, tip, important, > caution, and warning). > Tommy Reynolds Tommy.Reynolds at MegaCoder.com created the callout graphics. > They all may be freely redistributed with documentation > produced for the &PROJECT;. > > > > &BOOKID; > > > > &RH;, &RH; Network, the &RH; "Shadow Man" logo, RPM, Maximum RPM, the RPM logo, Linux > Library, PowerTools, Linux Undercover, RHmember, RHmember More, Rough Cuts, > Rawhide and all &RH;-based trademarks and logos are trademarks or registered > trademarks of &FORMAL-RHI; in the United States and other countries. > > > > Linux is a registered trademark of Linus Torvalds. > > > > Motif and UNIX are registered trademarks of The Open Group. > > > > Intel and Pentium are registered trademarks of Intel Corporation. Itanium > and Celeron are trademarks of Intel Corporation. > > > > AMD, AMD Athlon, AMD Duron, and AMD K6 are trademarks of Advanced Micro > Devices, Inc. > > > > Windows is a registered trademark of Microsoft Corporation. > > > > SSH and Secure Shell are trademarks of SSH Communications Security, Inc. > > > > FireWire is a trademark of Apple Computer Corporation. > > > > All other trademarks and copyrights referred to are the property of their > respective owners. > > > > --- NEW FILE legalnotice-relnotes-en.xml --- > > > > This document is released under the terms of the GNU Free Documentation > License. For more details, read the full legalnotice in linkend="ax-legalnotice" />. > > > > > Index: fedora-entities-en.ent > =================================================================== > RCS file: /cvs/docs/common/fedora-entities-en.ent,v > retrieving revision 1.2 > retrieving revision 1.3 > diff -u -r1.2 -r1.3 > --- fedora-entities-en.ent 31 May 2005 23:49:51 -0000 1.2 > +++ fedora-entities-en.ent 3 Jun 2005 03:43:08 -0000 1.3 > @@ -45,6 +45,8 @@ > > > > + > + > > > > > > Index: legalnotice-en.xml > =================================================================== > RCS file: /cvs/docs/common/legalnotice-en.xml,v > retrieving revision 1.8 > retrieving revision 1.9 > diff -u -r1.8 -r1.9 > --- legalnotice-en.xml 30 May 2005 20:30:27 -0000 1.8 > +++ legalnotice-en.xml 3 Jun 2005 03:43:08 -0000 1.9 > @@ -8,76 +8,5 @@ > ]> > --> > > - > - > - Permission is granted to copy, distribute, and/or modify this document under > - the terms of the GNU Free Documentation License, Version 1.2 or any later > - version published by the Free Software Foundation; with no Invariant > - Sections, no Front-Cover Texts, and no Back-Cover Texts. A copy of the > - license is available at - url="http://www.gnu.org/licenses/fdl.html">http://www.gnu.org/licenses/fdl.html. > - > - > - > - This document may be copied and distributed in any medium, either > - commercially or noncommercially, provided that the GNU Free Documentation > - License (FDL), the copyright notices, and the license notice saying the GNU > - FDL applies to the document are reproduced in all copies, and that you add > - no other conditions whatsoever to those of the GNU FDL. > - > - > - > - Garrett LeSage created the admonition graphics (note, tip, important, > - caution, and warning). > - Tommy Reynolds Tommy.Reynolds at MegaCoder.com created the callout graphics. > - They all may be freely redistributed with documentation > - produced for the &PROJECT;. > - > - > - > - &BOOKID; > - > - > - > - &RH;, &RH; Network, the &RH; "Shadow Man" logo, RPM, Maximum RPM, the RPM logo, Linux > - Library, PowerTools, Linux Undercover, RHmember, RHmember More, Rough Cuts, > - Rawhide and all &RH;-based trademarks and logos are trademarks or registered > - trademarks of &FORMAL-RHI; in the United States and other countries. > - > - > - > - Linux is a registered trademark of Linus Torvalds. > - > - > - > - Motif and UNIX are registered trademarks of The Open Group. > - > - > - > - Intel and Pentium are registered trademarks of Intel Corporation. Itanium > - and Celeron are trademarks of Intel Corporation. > - > - > - > - AMD, AMD Athlon, AMD Duron, and AMD K6 are trademarks of Advanced Micro > - Devices, Inc. > - > - > - > - Windows is a registered trademark of Microsoft Corporation. > - > - > - > - SSH and Secure Shell are trademarks of SSH Communications Security, Inc. > - > - > - > - FireWire is a trademark of Apple Computer Corporation. > - > - > - > - All other trademarks and copyrights referred to are the property of their > - respective owners. > - > - > +&LEGALNOTICE-CONTENT; > > > -- > Fedora-docs-commits mailing list > Fedora-docs-commits at redhat.com > https://www.redhat.com/mailman/listinfo/fedora-docs-commits -- Karsten Wade, RHCE * Sr. Tech Writer * http://people.redhat.com/kwade/ gpg fingerprint: 2680 DBFD D968 3141 0115 5F1B D992 0E06 AD0E 0C41 Red Hat SELinux Guide http://www.redhat.com/docs/manuals/enterprise/RHEL-4-Manual/selinux-guide/ -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: signature.asc Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 189 bytes Desc: This is a digitally signed message part URL: From ghenry at suretecsystems.com Fri Jun 3 08:31:19 2005 From: ghenry at suretecsystems.com (Gavin Henry) Date: Fri, 3 Jun 2005 09:31:19 +0100 (BST) Subject: Self-Introduction: Patrick W. Barnes In-Reply-To: <429F943A.90407@n-man.com> References: <429F943A.90407@n-man.com> Message-ID: <44501.193.195.148.66.1117787479.squirrel@webmail.suretecsystems.com> Added: http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/DocsProject_2fContributors -- Kind Regards, Gavin Henry. Managing Director. T +44 (0) 1224 279484 M +44 (0) 7930 323266 F +44 (0) 1224 742001 E ghenry at suretecsystems.com Open Source. Open Solutions(tm). http://www.suretecsystems.com/ > About Me: > > My name is Patrick W. Barnes > My Internet nickname is "The N-Man", and thus my name will usually > appear as 'Patrick "The N-Man" Barnes' > > I live in Amarillo, Texas (USA) > > I am a Systems Administrator for CTL Technologies > > My Goals and Qualifications: > > I have been using, testing, monitoring, and assisting other users and > developers with the Fedora Project for some time now, and I would like > to start making more active contributions. > > I would like to help with the Fedora Project in as many ways as > possible. I have a variety of useful skills. I currently distribute > the Fedora Core releases on systems my company sells, and have a great > deal of exposure to end-user feedback. We also use Fedora Core releases > and the Rawhide branch internally. I am a programmer and a web > designer, as well as a system and network administrator. I am also an > excellent writer, and that is the skill that I would like to contribute > with first. > > I hope to improve documentation and tutorial options for users who are > new to Linux and Fedora. I would also like to contribute to the > user-friendly qualities of Fedora Core. My wide variety of skills and > experience will allow me to write on a large variety of topics. I do an > excellent job of staying on top of emerging technologies and changes > occuring within the project. > > To start things off, I'd like to help in organizing the existing > information in the Extras wiki and making the wiki more concise to > reduce errors and questions and improve productivity. First, I would > like to write a quick page to field some of the questions regarding > Google's Summer of Code and provide information about high-interest, > unmaintained (or missing) projects. Please let me know if there are any > questions. I look forward to contributing. > > GPG data: > > pub 1024D/299407D8 2004-11-04 [expires: 2009-11-03] > Key fingerprint = 5379 7B24 8A9D 2105 450F 6D20 741A 01EC 2994 07D8 > uid Patrick W. Barnes > uid Patrick W. Barnes > uid Patrick W. Barnes > sub 2048g/9BDA9ED4 2004-11-04 [expires: 2009-11-03] > > This message has been sent to both fedora-extras-list and > fedora-docs-list. > > -- > Patrick "The N-Man" Barnes > nman64 at n-man.com > > www.n-man.com > -- > > > -- > fedora-docs-list mailing list > fedora-docs-list at redhat.com > To unsubscribe: > http://www.redhat.com/mailman/listinfo/fedora-docs-list From andrewm at inventa.ru Fri Jun 3 13:33:09 2005 From: andrewm at inventa.ru (Andrew Martynov) Date: Fri, 03 Jun 2005 17:33:09 +0400 Subject: changes in legalnotice entity (was Re: common legalnotice-content-en.xml, NONE, 1.1 legalnotice-relnotes-en.xml, NONE, 1.1 fedora-entities-en.ent, 1.2, 1.3 legalnotice-en.xml, 1.8, 1.9) In-Reply-To: <1117771296.12368.63.camel@erato.phig.org> References: <200506030343.j533hBhm017054@cvs-int.fedora.redhat.com> <1117771296.12368.63.camel@erato.phig.org> Message-ID: <42A05C15.7030302@inventa.ru> Hello, Karsten! I hope you know an answer on question: Is Release Notes for FC4 ready? As I see, FC4 will be released for mirroring soon (tomorrow?) and translators will not have a chance to translate Release Notes. Is translation of RelNotes planned? If so, please announce the deadline to fedora-trans-list at redhat.com -- Best regards, Andrew Martynov Inventa Russia Karsten Wade wrote: >The below check-in supports a different style of doing the legalnotice >for the release notes. > >We need the full relnotes in one page (no chunks), but pulling the >legalnotice in at the top above the ToC is ugly. It defeats our new >What's New section (from Rahul) that makes this a more useful default >homepage for Firefox. > >You shouldn't have to change anything, even after doing a 'cvs up' in >common/. Your document's call to &LEGALNOTICE; will continue to do the >right thing. > >Changes to the legalnotice now need to happen in common/legalnotice- >content-en.xml. > >The changes below do the following: > >* Pull the actual content of the legalnotice into a file >common/legalnotice-content-en.xml > >* Have legalnotice-en.xml call in the entity &LEGALNOTICE-CONTENT; > >* Have legalnotice-relnotes-en.xml give a one line reference to the GFDL >and link to an > >* Within the relnotes, the new has a call to &LEGALNOTICE- >CONTENT; > >* fedora-entities-en.ent now has ENTITY declarations for LEGALNOTICE- >CONTENT and LEGALNOTICE-RELNOTES > >If you get this update and have *not* changed your document to call >fedora-entities-en.ent (instead of fedora-entities-en.xml), this update >will break your build. The entities file declares the special >legalnotice content file, and this change is *not* in the deprecated >fedora-entities-en.xml file. > >Final note: this is a hackish trick. It is not semantically correct, >having the content of the legalnotice _outside_ of the >container. At least, it feels wrong to me. > >I'll look into solving this in the XSL later. Even moving the >legalnotice to appear below the ToC will be good enough. > >cheers - Karsten > > > >On Thu, 2005-06-02 at 23:43 -0400, Karsten Wade wrote: > > >>Author: kwade >> >>Update of /cvs/docs/common >>In directory cvs-int.fedora.redhat.com:/tmp/cvs-serv17035 >> >>Modified Files: >> fedora-entities-en.ent legalnotice-en.xml >>Added Files: >> legalnotice-content-en.xml legalnotice-relnotes-en.xml >>Log Message: >>This is just a little hackish. With the legalnotice inline, it ruined the effect of the new release notes style and what's new content. These changes, plus changes to the relnotes parent, pull a special relnotes legalnotice in that has a single sentence and links to an appendix with the full legalnotice content. This is not semantically correct, there must be a way to handle this in the XSL so that the legalnotice content is properly contained throughout. This hack can stand until I find the XSL fix, because sometimes Pretty is more important than Right. >> >> >>--- NEW FILE legalnotice-content-en.xml --- >> >> >> Permission is granted to copy, distribute, and/or modify this document under >> the terms of the GNU Free Documentation License, Version 1.2 or any later >> version published by the Free Software Foundation; with no Invariant >> Sections, no Front-Cover Texts, and no Back-Cover Texts. A copy of the >> license is available at > url="http://www.gnu.org/licenses/fdl.html">http://www.gnu.org/licenses/fdl.html. >> >> >> >> This document may be copied and distributed in any medium, either >> commercially or noncommercially, provided that the GNU Free Documentation >> License (FDL), the copyright notices, and the license notice saying the GNU >> FDL applies to the document are reproduced in all copies, and that you add >> no other conditions whatsoever to those of the GNU FDL. >> >> >> >> Garrett LeSage created the admonition graphics (note, tip, important, >> caution, and warning). >> Tommy Reynolds Tommy.Reynolds at MegaCoder.com created the callout graphics. >> They all may be freely redistributed with documentation >> produced for the &PROJECT;. >> >> >> >> &BOOKID; >> >> >> >> &RH;, &RH; Network, the &RH; "Shadow Man" logo, RPM, Maximum RPM, the RPM logo, Linux >> Library, PowerTools, Linux Undercover, RHmember, RHmember More, Rough Cuts, >> Rawhide and all &RH;-based trademarks and logos are trademarks or registered >> trademarks of &FORMAL-RHI; in the United States and other countries. >> >> >> >> Linux is a registered trademark of Linus Torvalds. >> >> >> >> Motif and UNIX are registered trademarks of The Open Group. >> >> >> >> Intel and Pentium are registered trademarks of Intel Corporation. Itanium >> and Celeron are trademarks of Intel Corporation. >> >> >> >> AMD, AMD Athlon, AMD Duron, and AMD K6 are trademarks of Advanced Micro >> Devices, Inc. >> >> >> >> Windows is a registered trademark of Microsoft Corporation. >> >> >> >> SSH and Secure Shell are trademarks of SSH Communications Security, Inc. >> >> >> >> FireWire is a trademark of Apple Computer Corporation. >> >> >> >> All other trademarks and copyrights referred to are the property of their >> respective owners. >> >> >> >>--- NEW FILE legalnotice-relnotes-en.xml --- >> >> >> >> This document is released under the terms of the GNU Free Documentation >> License. For more details, read the full legalnotice in > linkend="ax-legalnotice" />. >> >> >> >> >>Index: fedora-entities-en.ent >>=================================================================== >>RCS file: /cvs/docs/common/fedora-entities-en.ent,v >>retrieving revision 1.2 >>retrieving revision 1.3 >>diff -u -r1.2 -r1.3 >>--- fedora-entities-en.ent 31 May 2005 23:49:51 -0000 1.2 >>+++ fedora-entities-en.ent 3 Jun 2005 03:43:08 -0000 1.3 >>@@ -45,6 +45,8 @@ >> >> >> >>+ >>+ >> >> >> >> >> >>Index: legalnotice-en.xml >>=================================================================== >>RCS file: /cvs/docs/common/legalnotice-en.xml,v >>retrieving revision 1.8 >>retrieving revision 1.9 >>diff -u -r1.8 -r1.9 >>--- legalnotice-en.xml 30 May 2005 20:30:27 -0000 1.8 >>+++ legalnotice-en.xml 3 Jun 2005 03:43:08 -0000 1.9 >>@@ -8,76 +8,5 @@ >> ]> >> --> >> >>- >>- >>- Permission is granted to copy, distribute, and/or modify this document under >>- the terms of the GNU Free Documentation License, Version 1.2 or any later >>- version published by the Free Software Foundation; with no Invariant >>- Sections, no Front-Cover Texts, and no Back-Cover Texts. A copy of the >>- license is available at >- url="http://www.gnu.org/licenses/fdl.html">http://www.gnu.org/licenses/fdl.html. >>- >>- >>- >>- This document may be copied and distributed in any medium, either >>- commercially or noncommercially, provided that the GNU Free Documentation >>- License (FDL), the copyright notices, and the license notice saying the GNU >>- FDL applies to the document are reproduced in all copies, and that you add >>- no other conditions whatsoever to those of the GNU FDL. >>- >>- >>- >>- Garrett LeSage created the admonition graphics (note, tip, important, >>- caution, and warning). >>- Tommy Reynolds Tommy.Reynolds at MegaCoder.com created the callout graphics. >>- They all may be freely redistributed with documentation >>- produced for the &PROJECT;. >>- >>- >>- >>- &BOOKID; >>- >>- >>- >>- &RH;, &RH; Network, the &RH; "Shadow Man" logo, RPM, Maximum RPM, the RPM logo, Linux >>- Library, PowerTools, Linux Undercover, RHmember, RHmember More, Rough Cuts, >>- Rawhide and all &RH;-based trademarks and logos are trademarks or registered >>- trademarks of &FORMAL-RHI; in the United States and other countries. >>- >>- >>- >>- Linux is a registered trademark of Linus Torvalds. >>- >>- >>- >>- Motif and UNIX are registered trademarks of The Open Group. >>- >>- >>- >>- Intel and Pentium are registered trademarks of Intel Corporation. Itanium >>- and Celeron are trademarks of Intel Corporation. >>- >>- >>- >>- AMD, AMD Athlon, AMD Duron, and AMD K6 are trademarks of Advanced Micro >>- Devices, Inc. >>- >>- >>- >>- Windows is a registered trademark of Microsoft Corporation. >>- >>- >>- >>- SSH and Secure Shell are trademarks of SSH Communications Security, Inc. >>- >>- >>- >>- FireWire is a trademark of Apple Computer Corporation. >>- >>- >>- >>- All other trademarks and copyrights referred to are the property of their >>- respective owners. >>- >>- >>+&LEGALNOTICE-CONTENT; >> >> >>-- >>Fedora-docs-commits mailing list >>Fedora-docs-commits at redhat.com >>https://www.redhat.com/mailman/listinfo/fedora-docs-commits >> >> From arun at ngb.biz Fri Jun 3 15:59:16 2005 From: arun at ngb.biz (Arun Mallikarjunan) Date: Fri, 3 Jun 2005 11:59:16 -0400 Subject: Self-Introduction: Arun Mallikarjunan Message-ID: <002201c56855$321f2d20$ec01a8c0@D85W3S21> Hi All, I joined the list a few days back and was confused as to how to start when I saw Patricks email. So here goes. My name's Arun Mallikarjunan. I have been using Linux for sometime now and even though I haven't contributed much towards development efforts I have been promulgating it all I can. I even convinced my roommates to switch. I would like to contribute to the Linux community anyway possible. I felt the best way to start would be by learning it and understanding the concept better and what's better than writing the documentation to learn it. I would be glad if somebody can act as a mentor and guide me through the open source process as I am not too familiar with it, and point me in a direction where I can start leveraging my skills which by the way are J2EE, C and C++. I am working as a project lead for NGB in Washington DC. Looking forward to be a part of the team. Regards, Arun -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From kwade at redhat.com Fri Jun 3 19:09:20 2005 From: kwade at redhat.com (Karsten Wade) Date: Fri, 03 Jun 2005 12:09:20 -0700 Subject: changes in legalnotice entity (was Re: common legalnotice-content-en.xml, NONE, 1.1 legalnotice-relnotes-en.xml, NONE, 1.1 fedora-entities-en.ent, 1.2, 1.3 legalnotice-en.xml, 1.8, 1.9) In-Reply-To: <42A05C15.7030302@inventa.ru> References: <200506030343.j533hBhm017054@cvs-int.fedora.redhat.com> <1117771296.12368.63.camel@erato.phig.org> <42A05C15.7030302@inventa.ru> Message-ID: <1117825760.12368.110.camel@erato.phig.org> On Fri, 2005-06-03 at 17:33 +0400, Andrew Martynov wrote: > Hello, Karsten! > > I hope you know an answer on question: Is Release Notes for FC4 ready? As ready as it is going to be. The content has been unchanged for a day or two, although some of the XML structure has been changing. We won't be changing the content any more before release. > As I see, FC4 will be released for mirroring soon (tomorrow?) and > translators will not have a chance to translate Release Notes. I'm sorry that we couldn't get translation included earlier. Our process for producing the release notes is brand new and still being tested, although we did get a complete and useful relnotes completed. > Is translation of RelNotes planned? If so, please announce the deadline > to fedora-trans-list at redhat.com Not having done this before, I don't want to announce it ready for translation too soon. Translations won't make it into the release itself, at this point. We can host them at fedora.redhat.com/docs. How long is a good length of time to allow for translation? We need to know this for the future, as well as right now. Is there someone who is leading the effort to translate release notes? Someone to coordinate with now and in the future? Does the translation project understand how the release notes are being produced now? This new process may make it easier to translate them. thanks - Karsten -- Karsten Wade, RHCE * Sr. Tech Writer * http://people.redhat.com/kwade/ gpg fingerprint: 2680 DBFD D968 3141 0115 5F1B D992 0E06 AD0E 0C41 Red Hat SELinux Guide http://www.redhat.com/docs/manuals/enterprise/RHEL-4-Manual/selinux-guide/ -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: signature.asc Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 189 bytes Desc: This is a digitally signed message part URL: From kwade at redhat.com Fri Jun 3 19:10:14 2005 From: kwade at redhat.com (Karsten Wade) Date: Fri, 03 Jun 2005 12:10:14 -0700 Subject: Self-Introduction: Patrick W. Barnes In-Reply-To: <429F943A.90407@n-man.com> References: <429F943A.90407@n-man.com> Message-ID: <1117825814.12368.112.camel@erato.phig.org> On Thu, 2005-06-02 at 18:20 -0500, Patrick Barnes wrote: > About Me: > > My name is Patrick W. Barnes > My Internet nickname is "The N-Man", and thus my name will usually > appear as 'Patrick "The N-Man" Barnes' Welcome. ;-) > My Goals and Qualifications: [snip good set of goals and quals] Sounds fantastic, looking forward to your contributions. One thing I want to figure out is how to connect documentation projects with students. Tech writing students are one example, but everyone technical needs to know how to write. There are also toolchain considerations, stylesheet changes, maybe even fun with fedora.redhat.com CSS. This may or may not fall under the FedoraBounties or other coding events currently underway. - Karsten -- Karsten Wade, RHCE * Sr. Tech Writer * http://people.redhat.com/kwade/ gpg fingerprint: 2680 DBFD D968 3141 0115 5F1B D992 0E06 AD0E 0C41 Red Hat SELinux Guide http://www.redhat.com/docs/manuals/enterprise/RHEL-4-Manual/selinux-guide/ -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: signature.asc Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 189 bytes Desc: This is a digitally signed message part URL: From kwade at redhat.com Fri Jun 3 19:32:55 2005 From: kwade at redhat.com (Karsten Wade) Date: Fri, 03 Jun 2005 12:32:55 -0700 Subject: Self-Introduction: Arun Mallikarjunan In-Reply-To: <002201c56855$321f2d20$ec01a8c0@D85W3S21> References: <002201c56855$321f2d20$ec01a8c0@D85W3S21> Message-ID: <1117827175.12368.130.camel@erato.phig.org> On Fri, 2005-06-03 at 11:59 -0400, Arun Mallikarjunan wrote: > Hi All, > > I joined the list a few days back and was confused as to > how to start when I saw Patricks email. So here goes. This also might help you: http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/DocsProject/NewWriters I'll see about adding that link to the information sent with the mailing list subscription. > I would like to contribute to the Linux community anyway > possible. I felt the best way to start would be by learning it and > understanding the concept better and what?s better than writing the > documentation to learn it. Yes, I agree, I think this is a great way to get involved and contribute. > I would be glad if somebody can act as a mentor and guide > me through the open source process as I am not too familiar with it, > and point me in a direction where I can start leveraging my skills > which by the way are J2EE, C and C++. I am working as a project lead > for NGB in Washington DC. We don't have a formal mentoring arrangement, but it is not a bad idea. As the least, when you have a document to work on (by picking one or suggesting one), your editor can help with this mentoring. Otherwise, this mailing list is not a bad place to ask open source process questions. We might even want to write up a general "how to contribute to Fedora" tutorial. :) > Looking forward to be a part of the team. Welcome! Is there anything you are interested in writing about? There is no topic too small for Fedora documentation. You might also be interested in working on the release notes project: http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/DocsProject/ReleaseNotes/Beats One suggestion I have to start is to not use HTML in your email. It is not well received on Fedora mailing lists. This is explained fairly well in this article: http://www.georgedillon.com/web/html_email_is_evil.shtml Cheers - Karsten -- Karsten Wade, RHCE * Sr. Tech Writer * http://people.redhat.com/kwade/ gpg fingerprint: 2680 DBFD D968 3141 0115 5F1B D992 0E06 AD0E 0C41 Red Hat SELinux Guide http://www.redhat.com/docs/manuals/enterprise/RHEL-4-Manual/selinux-guide/ -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: signature.asc Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 189 bytes Desc: This is a digitally signed message part URL: From kwade at redhat.com Fri Jun 3 20:23:14 2005 From: kwade at redhat.com (Karsten Wade) Date: Fri, 03 Jun 2005 13:23:14 -0700 Subject: Minutes from FDSCo (31 May 2005) Message-ID: <1117830194.12368.135.camel@erato.phig.org> Fedora Documentation Steering Committee (FDSCo) 31-MAY-2005 #fedora-docs on irc.freenode.net Attendees: ========== Karsten Wade (Chair) Tammy Fox Gavin Henry Paul Frields Stuart Ellis Agenda: ======= * FC4 Release notes status * FC4 Installation Guide status * Documentation Guide thoughts (time coming soon) * Tools status New Actions: ============ FDP: Separate release notes by arch to be tackled for FC5test1, will discuss viability first, tabled for a few weeks Karsten: Karsten to post final FC4 relnotes to wiki. FDP: List needs to consider packaging documentation for FC5. RPMs for documents: * Separate RPMs per manual? * One or separate SRPMs? * htmlview useful, not a dependency? * yelp connection? FDP: Post your ideas for the Documentation Guide to Wiki: http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/DocsProject/DocumentationGuide * Work on this guide to continue within a few weeks * Paul will call for a DOCG focused meeting for the FDSCo, probably 28 June FDP: Documentation Project focus is on making the toolchain work on current base release plus released updates. * DocBook wiki might help resolve disparate systems problems FDP: Writer's different environments causing small problems already. * Can we post process somewhere in the CVS commits chain? cf. indent for C * How can we use xmldiff Karsten: Discuss xmldiff and post-processing of XML with Elliott Paul: Documentation Guide example tutorial shall illustrate almost everything in the Documentation Guide itself. Updates/Status: =============== * Release notes * New process went well * Beats all worked out, XML infrastructure in place, making next time easier * Installation Guide * Never complete, but shippable * Can the IG appear next to README for FC4? (follow up: no) * XSL patched to support no chunks * Thanks to James Laska -- Karsten Wade, RHCE * Sr. Tech Writer * http://people.redhat.com/kwade/ gpg fingerprint: 2680 DBFD D968 3141 0115 5F1B D992 0E06 AD0E 0C41 Red Hat SELinux Guide http://www.redhat.com/docs/manuals/enterprise/RHEL-4-Manual/selinux-guide/ -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: signature.asc Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 189 bytes Desc: This is a digitally signed message part URL: From wtogami at redhat.com Sat Jun 4 07:13:38 2005 From: wtogami at redhat.com (Warren Togami) Date: Fri, 03 Jun 2005 21:13:38 -1000 Subject: [Fwd: SELinux - Error ?] Message-ID: <42A154A2.10807@redhat.com> -------- Original Message -------- Subject: SELinux - Error ? Date: Thu, 2 Jun 2005 13:52:39 +0200 From: Anthony Peeters To: Hello, http://fedora.redhat.com/docs/selinux-faq/ I think SELinux implements MAC, not DAC. http://www.nsa.gov/selinux/ Best regards, Anthony Peeters From nman64 at n-man.com Sat Jun 4 16:46:51 2005 From: nman64 at n-man.com (Patrick Barnes) Date: Sat, 04 Jun 2005 11:46:51 -0500 Subject: fedoraproject.org Message-ID: <42A1DAFB.6080604@n-man.com> I'm not clear on this. Who is responsible for http://fedoraproject.org/ ? I'm not sure how many people actually use this base URL, but it needs some loving. One of the links is broken, and it could be more informational. One idea that I had is that this URL could redirect to http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/ and that the Wiki's front page could feature all of the existing links, with a brief description. This would allow easier maintenance, and would automagically make the page more useful. With Red Hat announcing the creation of The Fedora Foundation, it seems like Fedora's information will eventually move away from fedora.redhat.com to its own domain. I don't know if this would be fedoraproject.org or something entirely different. If the migration is to fedoraproject.org, then my above suggestion would not create any problems. Simply removing the redirect and dropping content similar to fedora.redhat.com would be acceptable. The Wiki and the rest of the fedoraproject.org hierarchy would not conflict with the content currently at fedora.redhat.com, and links could be added to whatever main page is at the base URL to direct people to the current fedoraproject.org content. If anyone needs any clarification on my thinking, drop me a line. For reference, the broken link currently at http://fedoraproject.org is the 'Fedora FAQ pages at homelinux' link, which points to http://fedoraproject.org/faq , which redirects to http://fcp.homelinux.org/modules/wffaq when it should redirect to http://fcp.homelinux.org/modules/smartfaq . -- -- Patrick "The N-Man" Barnes nman64 at n-man.com www.n-man.com -- -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: signature.asc Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 189 bytes Desc: OpenPGP digital signature URL: From sundaram at redhat.com Sat Jun 4 16:55:34 2005 From: sundaram at redhat.com (Rahul Sundaram) Date: Sat, 04 Jun 2005 22:25:34 +0530 Subject: fedoraproject.org In-Reply-To: <42A1DAFB.6080604@n-man.com> References: <42A1DAFB.6080604@n-man.com> Message-ID: <42A1DD06.1040800@redhat.com> Patrick Barnes wrote: > I'm not clear on this. Who is responsible for http://fedoraproject.org/ > ? I'm not sure how many people actually use this base URL, but it needs > some loving. One of the links is broken, and it could be more > informational. Its hosted by Seth Vidal, primary developer of yum and its a wiki, so anyone with edit access could fix that regards Rahul From kwade at redhat.com Sun Jun 5 01:00:26 2005 From: kwade at redhat.com (Karsten Wade) Date: Sat, 04 Jun 2005 18:00:26 -0700 Subject: [Fwd: SELinux - Error ?] In-Reply-To: <42A154A2.10807@redhat.com> References: <42A154A2.10807@redhat.com> Message-ID: <1117933226.12368.160.camel@erato.phig.org> On Fri, 2005-06-03 at 21:13 -1000, Warren Togami wrote: > > http://fedora.redhat.com/docs/selinux-faq/ > > I think SELinux implements MAC, not DAC. > > http://www.nsa.gov/selinux/ *blush* I never noticed that before. The page incorrectly says discretionary instead of mandatory access control. For some reason I felt like filing a bug: https://bugzilla.redhat.com/bugzilla/show_bug.cgi?id=159572 Then I fixed the problem, should be live within an hour. Anthony, thanks. If you want a position as an editor, we have obvious need in the Fedora Documentation Project. ;-) - Karsten -- Karsten Wade, RHCE * Sr. Tech Writer * http://people.redhat.com/kwade/ gpg fingerprint: 2680 DBFD D968 3141 0115 5F1B D992 0E06 AD0E 0C41 Red Hat SELinux Guide http://www.redhat.com/docs/manuals/enterprise/RHEL-4-Manual/selinux-guide/ -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: signature.asc Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 189 bytes Desc: This is a digitally signed message part URL: From kwade at redhat.com Sun Jun 5 07:23:49 2005 From: kwade at redhat.com (Karsten Wade) Date: Sun, 05 Jun 2005 00:23:49 -0700 Subject: fedoraproject.org In-Reply-To: <42A1DD06.1040800@redhat.com> References: <42A1DAFB.6080604@n-man.com> <42A1DD06.1040800@redhat.com> Message-ID: <1117956230.12368.171.camel@erato.phig.org> On Sat, 2005-06-04 at 22:25 +0530, Rahul Sundaram wrote: > Patrick Barnes wrote: > > > I'm not clear on this. Who is responsible for http://fedoraproject.org/ > > ? I'm not sure how many people actually use this base URL, but it needs > > some loving. One of the links is broken, and it could be more > > informational. > > Its hosted by Seth Vidal, primary developer of yum and its a wiki, so > anyone with edit access could fix that I don't think the top level fedoraproject.org/ is an editable wiki. Regardless, it appears as if someone read about this because the link now redirects properly to smartfaq/ instead of wffaq/. The rest of the suggestions are probably best brought to the attention of the new Fedora Marketing Project, fedora-marketing-list at redhat.com. FWIW, I think there is sense your ideas, but I don't know all the history and details about fedoraproject.org. - Karsten -- Karsten Wade, RHCE * Sr. Tech Writer * http://people.redhat.com/kwade/ gpg fingerprint: 2680 DBFD D968 3141 0115 5F1B D992 0E06 AD0E 0C41 Red Hat SELinux Guide http://www.redhat.com/docs/manuals/enterprise/RHEL-4-Manual/selinux-guide/ -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: signature.asc Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 189 bytes Desc: This is a digitally signed message part URL: From nman64 at n-man.com Sun Jun 5 08:16:24 2005 From: nman64 at n-man.com (Patrick Barnes) Date: Sun, 05 Jun 2005 03:16:24 -0500 Subject: fedoraproject.org In-Reply-To: <1117956230.12368.171.camel@erato.phig.org> References: <42A1DAFB.6080604@n-man.com> <42A1DD06.1040800@redhat.com> <1117956230.12368.171.camel@erato.phig.org> Message-ID: <42A2B4D8.9000501@n-man.com> Karsten Wade wrote: >On Sat, 2005-06-04 at 22:25 +0530, Rahul Sundaram wrote: > > >>Patrick Barnes wrote: >> >> >> >>>I'm not clear on this. Who is responsible for http://fedoraproject.org/ >>>? I'm not sure how many people actually use this base URL, but it needs >>>some loving. One of the links is broken, and it could be more >>>informational. >>> >>> >>Its hosted by Seth Vidal, primary developer of yum and its a wiki, so >>anyone with edit access could fix that >> >> > >I don't think the top level fedoraproject.org/ is an editable wiki. > >Regardless, it appears as if someone read about this because the link >now redirects properly to smartfaq/ instead of wffaq/. > >The rest of the suggestions are probably best brought to the attention >of the new Fedora Marketing Project, fedora-marketing-list at redhat.com. >FWIW, I think there is sense your ideas, but I don't know all the >history and details about fedoraproject.org. > >- Karsten > > As soon as I got the response saying that Seth Vidal hosted it, I talked to him and told him the link was broken. He quickly corrected it. I'll go ahead and forward the rest of my message to fedora-marketing-list and probably CC Seth. -- Patrick "The N-Man" Barnes nman64 at n-man.com www.n-man.com -- -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: signature.asc Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 189 bytes Desc: OpenPGP digital signature URL: From andrewm at inventa.ru Sun Jun 5 12:29:24 2005 From: andrewm at inventa.ru (Andrew Martynov) Date: Sun, 5 Jun 2005 16:29:24 +0400 Subject: changes in legalnotice entity (was Re: common legalnotice-content-en.xml, NONE, 1.1 legalnotice-relnotes-en.xml, NONE, 1.1 fedora-entities-en.ent, 1.2, 1.3 legalnotice-en.xml, 1.8, 1.9) In-Reply-To: <1117825760.12368.110.camel@erato.phig.org> References: <200506030343.j533hBhm017054@cvs-int.fedora.redhat.com> <1117771296.12368.63.camel@erato.phig.org> <42A05C15.7030302@inventa.ru> <1117825760.12368.110.camel@erato.phig.org> Message-ID: <20050605122924.GA26211@mk61.inventa.ru> Hello, Karsten! We (Russian Team) can make translation for 1-2 days. I hope most of translators can prepare their part of work within the same period. If we will use CVS that allows us translate only difference in future such time will be minimized up to one day. For now there is no dedicated person for this task. For the last year only I and two translators try to discuss this topic. I think we can ask Sarah Wang or I can coordinate this efforts for first time. I have watched for this list for four months and understand in general how Release Notes is produced now. It`s good idea to prepare some HOWTO for translation team about WiKi/CVS access and translation procedure. I think we can use xml2po ulitity to prepare traditional POT/PO files for tranlation and then reconstruct XML document. Translators will be glad to discuss and begin translation process for this part of Documentation. Best regards, Andrew Martynov On Fri, Jun 03, 2005 at 12:09:20PM -0700, Karsten Wade wrote: > On Fri, 2005-06-03 at 17:33 +0400, Andrew Martynov wrote: > > Hello, Karsten! > > > > I hope you know an answer on question: Is Release Notes for FC4 ready? > > As ready as it is going to be. > > The content has been unchanged for a day or two, although some of the > XML structure has been changing. We won't be changing the content any > more before release. > > > As I see, FC4 will be released for mirroring soon (tomorrow?) and > > translators will not have a chance to translate Release Notes. > > I'm sorry that we couldn't get translation included earlier. Our > process for producing the release notes is brand new and still being > tested, although we did get a complete and useful relnotes completed. > > > Is translation of RelNotes planned? If so, please announce the deadline > > to fedora-trans-list at redhat.com > > Not having done this before, I don't want to announce it ready for > translation too soon. > > Translations won't make it into the release itself, at this point. We > can host them at fedora.redhat.com/docs. > > How long is a good length of time to allow for translation? > > We need to know this for the future, as well as right now. > > Is there someone who is leading the effort to translate release notes? > Someone to coordinate with now and in the future? > > Does the translation project understand how the release notes are being > produced now? This new process may make it easier to translate them. > > thanks - Karsten > -- > Karsten Wade, RHCE * Sr. Tech Writer * http://people.redhat.com/kwade/ > gpg fingerprint: 2680 DBFD D968 3141 0115 5F1B D992 0E06 AD0E 0C41 > Red Hat SELinux Guide > http://www.redhat.com/docs/manuals/enterprise/RHEL-4-Manual/selinux-guide/ > -- > fedora-docs-list mailing list > fedora-docs-list at redhat.com > To unsubscribe: > http://www.redhat.com/mailman/listinfo/fedora-docs-list From yuan.bbbush at gmail.com Sun Jun 5 13:03:24 2005 From: yuan.bbbush at gmail.com (Yuan Yijun) Date: Sun, 5 Jun 2005 21:03:24 +0800 Subject: does xml2po work correctly now? In-Reply-To: <20050605122924.GA26211@mk61.inventa.ru> References: <200506030343.j533hBhm017054@cvs-int.fedora.redhat.com> <1117771296.12368.63.camel@erato.phig.org> <42A05C15.7030302@inventa.ru> <1117825760.12368.110.camel@erato.phig.org> <20050605122924.GA26211@mk61.inventa.ru> Message-ID: <9792751e05060506035d8bbea2@mail.gmail.com> 2005/6/5, Andrew Martynov : > > I think we can use xml2po ulitity to prepare traditional POT/PO > files for tranlation and then reconstruct XML document. > I tried xml2po some days ago, but I encountered some problems[1] and xml2po cannot reconstruct the XML document exactly the same as the original one. I see a lot of entity definition file update and some dtd changes reported on the list these days. Can xml2po work correctly now? Regards. -- bbbush ^_^ [1] https://www.redhat.com/archives/fedora-docs-list/2005-May/msg00149.html From stuart at elsn.org Sun Jun 5 13:21:48 2005 From: stuart at elsn.org (Stuart Ellis) Date: Sun, 05 Jun 2005 14:21:48 +0100 Subject: Imported into CVS - "Updating Your Desktop with up2date" Message-ID: <1117977708.5489.6.camel@humboldt.eln.lan> Tracking Bug: 155180 This is now in CVS as the module "desktop-up2date". Note that this is a revised and renamed version of the "Using Up2date" tutorial. Hopefully pup will eventually make this of historical interest, but up2date is likely to be in use on some systems for a long time to come... Post-import test checkout and build worked successfully. -- Stuart Ellis stuart at elsn.org Fedora Documentation Project: http://fedora.redhat.com/projects/docs/ GPG key ID: 7098ABEA GPG key fingerprint: 68B0 E291 FB19 C845 E60E 9569 292E E365 7098 ABEA -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: signature.asc Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 189 bytes Desc: This is a digitally signed message part URL: From Tommy.Reynolds at MegaCoder.com Sun Jun 5 16:55:11 2005 From: Tommy.Reynolds at MegaCoder.com (Tommy Reynolds) Date: Sun, 5 Jun 2005 11:55:11 -0500 Subject: HCL Considered Harmfull [Re: Fedora HCL guide writers?] Message-ID: <20050605115511.2b5af794.Tommy.Reynolds@MegaCoder.com> On Thu, 2 Jun 2005 10:50:49 -0700 Chidananda Jayakeerti wrote: > Hello, Nice to meet you. Sorry to be so late responding to your posting, but I've been away from the office for a week. And I lost your original email. And my dog ate my homework. Just kidding. Anyway, I'll make an attempt at answering your question; other members will probably have different ideas than mine. That is OK, I'm just thinking out loud here. > I have been resorting to "googling" for Fedora HCL due to the lack of > such a guide. I have a crude list of hardware list built from > experience. This is in no means a official HCL and has very few > hardware. I understand your interest in having a Fedora HCL, so that when you configure a system you have at least _some_ hope that the result will be functional. However, looking at some of the public comments about past experiences with HCL's are revealing. I do not think that having an HCL will be a good idea for Fedora. Red Hat was able to publish their HCL because one of their business services was to certify that a certain combination of vendor hardware and software worked when RH tested it. They were paid handsomely for this service. Vendors liked the idea, but the next engineering change to either the hardware or the software rendered that particular certification worthless because the entry was actually a tuple: Certification[N] = [Hardware(Model,ECO,Options), Software (Version,patch]] Because of the cost involved, many vendors never re-certified for new versions. The HCL also contained some anecdotal entries, of the "this worked for me" variety. The end result was the HCL rapidly became stale. Translation: big maintenance chore. Also, it was never intended to be authoritative, but that's the way it was used. If someone wanted to install Linux, they would check the HCL and then panic because their particular combination was not listed. In the end, the HCL has languished and gotten only sporadic attention. Fedora now includes an Installation Guide and Release Notes that describe the minimal hardware configuration, in generic terms. Google.com is probably the best solution to this issue; especially given the short development cycle of the Fedora project. > However, looking at https://bugzilla.redhat.com/bugzilla/show_bug.cgi?id=129784 > I realise i might as well start off an official one. Are there any > writiers understaking such a task? > How do I go about starting one? I could do the SelfIntroduction stuff > (although i'm not too comfortable reveling my residence address to a > mailing list :). We would welcome your contribution to the Docs project. A self-introduction is, rather firmly, the most minimal of membership requirements. We won't come to your house to check your address, but notice the section that asks "Why should we trust you?". I think an address of at least the city? country? continent? world? solar system? galaxy? 'verse? is intended to give folks some idea of whom you are. Wade, is this right? Cheers! -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 189 bytes Desc: not available URL: From stuart at elsn.org Sun Jun 5 17:58:45 2005 From: stuart at elsn.org (Stuart Ellis) Date: Sun, 05 Jun 2005 18:58:45 +0100 Subject: HCL Considered Harmfull [Re: Fedora HCL guide writers?] In-Reply-To: <20050605115511.2b5af794.Tommy.Reynolds@MegaCoder.com> References: <20050605115511.2b5af794.Tommy.Reynolds@MegaCoder.com> Message-ID: <1117994326.4263.11.camel@humboldt.eln.lan> On Sun, 2005-06-05 at 11:55 -0500, Tommy Reynolds wrote: On Thu, 2 Jun 2005 10:50:49 -0700 Chidananda Jayakeerti > wrote: > > I do not think that having an HCL will be a good idea for Fedora. > > Fedora now includes an Installation Guide and Release Notes that > describe the minimal hardware configuration, in generic terms. I definitely agree with Tommy that attempting a HCL would be a bad idea. Thinking about it, perhaps the problem itself has changed over the years too - these days the install process will probably complete on any common Intel-compatible hardware, so the question is no longer "can I install Linux on this machine ?", but "will I need to carry out extra steps afterwards to get some functions to work ?" I also agree that getting specific information on particular makes and models is best done by Googling. Perhaps we can usefully make some general statements in the Release Notes, though ? For example, when I install Fedora on a laptop it's almost a certainty that neither the modem nor the wireless card will work, and ACPI is unlikely as well, but our existing documentation doesn't really acknowledge this, or provide positive guidance as to how to go about finding solutions. -- Stuart Ellis stuart at elsn.org Fedora Documentation Project: http://fedora.redhat.com/projects/docs/ GPG key ID: 7098ABEA GPG key fingerprint: 68B0 E291 FB19 C845 E60E 9569 292E E365 7098 ABEA -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: signature.asc Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 189 bytes Desc: This is a digitally signed message part URL: From geoganoe at cox.net Sun Jun 5 19:07:25 2005 From: geoganoe at cox.net (George Ganoe) Date: Sun, 05 Jun 2005 15:07:25 -0400 Subject: HCL Considered Harmfull [Re: Fedora HCL guide writers?] In-Reply-To: <1117994326.4263.11.camel@humboldt.eln.lan> References: <20050605115511.2b5af794.Tommy.Reynolds@MegaCoder.com> <1117994326.4263.11.camel@humboldt.eln.lan> Message-ID: <42A34D6D.9010300@cox.net> Stuart Ellis wrote: > On Sun, 2005-06-05 at 11:55 -0500, Tommy Reynolds wrote: > On Thu, 2 Jun 2005 10:50:49 -0700 Chidananda Jayakeerti > >> wrote: >> >> > > I do not think that having an HCL will be a good idea for Fedora. > > > >>Fedora now includes an Installation Guide and Release Notes that >>describe the minimal hardware configuration, in generic terms. > > > I definitely agree with Tommy that attempting a HCL would be a bad idea. > Thinking about it, perhaps the problem itself has changed over the years > too - these days the install process will probably complete on any > common Intel-compatible hardware, so the question is no longer "can I > install Linux on this machine ?", but "will I need to carry out extra > steps afterwards to get some functions to work ?" > > I also agree that getting specific information on particular makes and > models is best done by Googling. Perhaps we can usefully make some > general statements in the Release Notes, though ? For example, when I > install Fedora on a laptop it's almost a certainty that neither the > modem nor the wireless card will work, and ACPI is unlikely as well, but > our existing documentation doesn't really acknowledge this, or provide > positive guidance as to how to go about finding solutions. > > While I agree that taking on the task of an HCL is a monumental job, as a five year Red Hat/Fedora user, I believe it would be a tremendous service to the user community to have a HIL (Hardware Incompatibility List). Many times I hesitate to buy new hardware because I can't find information about what models will work with my OS, and it is a daunting job to even begin the task of finding out. A list of things to stay away from would be a great help. George From nman64 at n-man.com Sun Jun 5 20:23:10 2005 From: nman64 at n-man.com (Patrick Barnes) Date: Sun, 05 Jun 2005 15:23:10 -0500 Subject: HCL Considered Harmfull [Re: Fedora HCL guide writers?] In-Reply-To: <42A34D6D.9010300@cox.net> References: <20050605115511.2b5af794.Tommy.Reynolds@MegaCoder.com> <1117994326.4263.11.camel@humboldt.eln.lan> <42A34D6D.9010300@cox.net> Message-ID: <42A35F2E.4020306@n-man.com> George Ganoe wrote: > Stuart Ellis wrote: > >> On Sun, 2005-06-05 at 11:55 -0500, Tommy Reynolds wrote: >> On Thu, 2 Jun 2005 10:50:49 -0700 Chidananda Jayakeerti >> >>> wrote: >>> >>> >> >> I do not think that having an HCL will be a good idea for Fedora. >> >> >> >>> Fedora now includes an Installation Guide and Release Notes that >>> describe the minimal hardware configuration, in generic terms. >> >> >> >> I definitely agree with Tommy that attempting a HCL would be a bad idea. >> Thinking about it, perhaps the problem itself has changed over the years >> too - these days the install process will probably complete on any >> common Intel-compatible hardware, so the question is no longer "can I >> install Linux on this machine ?", but "will I need to carry out extra >> steps afterwards to get some functions to work ?" >> >> I also agree that getting specific information on particular makes and >> models is best done by Googling. Perhaps we can usefully make some >> general statements in the Release Notes, though ? For example, when I >> install Fedora on a laptop it's almost a certainty that neither the >> modem nor the wireless card will work, and ACPI is unlikely as well, but >> our existing documentation doesn't really acknowledge this, or provide >> positive guidance as to how to go about finding solutions. >> >> > > While I agree that taking on the task of an HCL is a monumental > job, as a five year Red Hat/Fedora user, I believe it would be > a tremendous service to the user community to have a HIL (Hardware > Incompatibility List). Many times I hesitate to buy new hardware > because I can't find information about what models will work with > my OS, and it is a daunting job to even begin the task of finding > out. A list of things to stay away from would be a great help. > > > George > I think an 'HIL' would suffer exactly the same problems and an HCL, just from a different perspective. Anymore, such a list is really not even necessary. Very, very little hardware still cannot be used with Linux. Some older, proprietary, and rare hardware will not run, but overall your odds are as good with Linux as they are with Windows. The only concern is how much effort getting the hardware to run will take. An HCL/HIL will not solve that, but Google queries work nicely to pull up guides for most hardware. This will become even more of a moot point going forward. At the moment, you have much better odds of hardware working on a 64-bit Linux system than you do with a 64-bit Windows system. Linux is not the niche OS it once was. The need for HCL/HIL's is fading. -- Patrick "The N-Man" Barnes nman64 at n-man.com www.n-man.com -- -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: signature.asc Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 189 bytes Desc: OpenPGP digital signature URL: From stuart at elsn.org Sun Jun 5 20:58:29 2005 From: stuart at elsn.org (Stuart Ellis) Date: Sun, 05 Jun 2005 21:58:29 +0100 Subject: HCL Considered Harmfull [Re: Fedora HCL guide writers?] In-Reply-To: <42A35F2E.4020306@n-man.com> References: <20050605115511.2b5af794.Tommy.Reynolds@MegaCoder.com> <1117994326.4263.11.camel@humboldt.eln.lan> <42A34D6D.9010300@cox.net> <42A35F2E.4020306@n-man.com> Message-ID: <1118005110.4774.16.camel@humboldt.eln.lan> On Sun, 2005-06-05 at 15:23 -0500, Patrick Barnes wrote: > I think an 'HIL' would suffer exactly the same problems and an HCL, just > from a different perspective. +1. The rate of change is very high, especially in some of the problem areas (wireless, graphics). > Anymore, such a list is really not even > necessary. Very, very little hardware still cannot be used with Linux. > Some older, proprietary, and rare hardware will not run, but overall > your odds are as good with Linux as they are with Windows. The only > concern is how much effort getting the hardware to run will take. Yes. Most issues/complaints are now around certain types of feature cannot be supported out-of-the-box, often because the manufacturers are opposed (3D acceleration with most standard graphics chips, 802.11g wireless, Winmodems). So I would be in favour of some general information that explains why the issues exist, and makes some suggestions (check support sites, www.google.com/linux with chipset number etc.). Arguably some types of hardware are common enough and have well-known fixes, so specific notes might be feasible (Centrino wireless, Nvidia graphics). A list of specific models that incorporate these chips would be doomed, though, IMO. -- Stuart Ellis stuart at elsn.org Fedora Documentation Project: http://fedora.redhat.com/projects/docs/ GPG key ID: 7098ABEA GPG key fingerprint: 68B0 E291 FB19 C845 E60E 9569 292E E365 7098 ABEA -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: signature.asc Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 189 bytes Desc: This is a digitally signed message part URL: From Tommy.Reynolds at MegaCoder.com Sun Jun 5 21:19:08 2005 From: Tommy.Reynolds at MegaCoder.com (Tommy Reynolds) Date: Sun, 5 Jun 2005 16:19:08 -0500 Subject: HCL Considered Harmfull [Re: Fedora HCL guide writers?] In-Reply-To: <42A34D6D.9010300@cox.net> References: <20050605115511.2b5af794.Tommy.Reynolds@MegaCoder.com> <1117994326.4263.11.camel@humboldt.eln.lan> <42A34D6D.9010300@cox.net> Message-ID: <20050605161908.105d7a00.Tommy.Reynolds@MegaCoder.com> Uttered George Ganoe , spake thus: > > > I do not think that having an HCL will be a good idea for Fedora. > > I definitely agree with Tommy that attempting a HCL would be a bad idea. > While I agree that taking on the task of an HCL is a monumental > job, as a five year Red Hat/Fedora user, I believe it would be > a tremendous service to the user community to have a HIL (Hardware > Incompatibility List). Many times I hesitate to buy new hardware > because I can't find information about what models will work with > my OS, and it is a daunting job to even begin the task of finding > out. A list of things to stay away from would be a great help. Yeah, I've carefully bought stuff that turned out to be a MicroSorft brick. Tip: shop only where sales returns are not a hassle. Hmm... an "avoid like the plague" list might be helpful but it may also annoy folks (liability issues for lost revenue?). This list, too, will probably prove to be rather volatile. But, what I would endorse would be a "Got Drivers?" list. The Linux kernel ships with nearly 6 million lines of code: the kernel is about 1.5 million and all the rest are those lovely device drivers. Could somebody scan each of those drivers to see just what the heck hardware they support? For some drivers, just looking through the kernel configuration help should be enough. Others should have a simple table of PCI vendor/device code pairs. Others will need a code audit. Herculean? Not really, because every one of those drivers has a author, or at least a maintainer, clearly listed. We just need someone to bulldog down that list with a spate of emails. Then make the "Got Drivers?" list from that. Any takers? Cheers -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 189 bytes Desc: not available URL: From nman64 at n-man.com Sun Jun 5 21:34:26 2005 From: nman64 at n-man.com (Patrick Barnes) Date: Sun, 05 Jun 2005 16:34:26 -0500 Subject: HCL Considered Harmfull [Re: Fedora HCL guide writers?] In-Reply-To: <20050605161908.105d7a00.Tommy.Reynolds@MegaCoder.com> References: <20050605115511.2b5af794.Tommy.Reynolds@MegaCoder.com> <1117994326.4263.11.camel@humboldt.eln.lan> <42A34D6D.9010300@cox.net> <20050605161908.105d7a00.Tommy.Reynolds@MegaCoder.com> Message-ID: <42A36FE2.5020705@n-man.com> Tommy Reynolds wrote: >Uttered George Ganoe , spake thus: > > > >>>>I do not think that having an HCL will be a good idea for Fedora. >>>> >>>> >>>I definitely agree with Tommy that attempting a HCL would be a bad idea. >>> >>> >>While I agree that taking on the task of an HCL is a monumental >>job, as a five year Red Hat/Fedora user, I believe it would be >>a tremendous service to the user community to have a HIL (Hardware >>Incompatibility List). Many times I hesitate to buy new hardware >>because I can't find information about what models will work with >>my OS, and it is a daunting job to even begin the task of finding >>out. A list of things to stay away from would be a great help. >> >> > >Yeah, I've carefully bought stuff that turned out to be a MicroSorft >brick. Tip: shop only where sales returns are not a hassle. > >Hmm... an "avoid like the plague" list might be helpful but it may >also annoy folks (liability issues for lost revenue?). This list, >too, will probably prove to be rather volatile. > >But, what I would endorse would be a "Got Drivers?" list. The Linux >kernel ships with nearly 6 million lines of code: the kernel is about >1.5 million and all the rest are those lovely device drivers. > > Could somebody scan each of those drivers to see just what > the heck hardware they support? > >For some drivers, just looking through the kernel configuration help >should be enough. Others should have a simple table of PCI >vendor/device code pairs. Others will need a code audit. > >Herculean? Not really, because every one of those drivers has a >author, or at least a maintainer, clearly listed. We just need >someone to bulldog down that list with a spate of emails. Then make >the "Got Drivers?" list from that. > >Any takers? > >Cheers > > Yet again, we hit some of the same issues. Support in the kernel is always evolving, and sometimes things break. This would prove equally volatile. Also, just because there is/isn't a driver in the kernel doesn't necessarily mean that hardware will/won't work. Additional factors exist, such as modules not included with the kernel. Also, when considering hardware purchases, you can't effectively compare PCI data. You would be better off spending your time writing guides for the pieces of hardware that don't work out of the box. -- Patrick "The N-Man" Barnes nman64 at n-man.com www.n-man.com -- -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: signature.asc Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 189 bytes Desc: OpenPGP digital signature URL: From ajchida at gmail.com Sun Jun 5 22:53:01 2005 From: ajchida at gmail.com (Chidananda Jayakeerti) Date: Sun, 5 Jun 2005 15:53:01 -0700 Subject: HCL Considered Harmfull [Re: Fedora HCL guide writers?] In-Reply-To: <42A36FE2.5020705@n-man.com> References: <20050605115511.2b5af794.Tommy.Reynolds@MegaCoder.com> <1117994326.4263.11.camel@humboldt.eln.lan> <42A34D6D.9010300@cox.net> <20050605161908.105d7a00.Tommy.Reynolds@MegaCoder.com> <42A36FE2.5020705@n-man.com> Message-ID: <71b7a98905060515534f020d66@mail.gmail.com> Thanks for the comments so far. I do understand the task is monumental. However, if drivers are being written and maintained for hardware, maintaining a compatibility list should be possible and will be immensly use to users. Is it possible to achieve an HCL for limited set of hardware, to begin with. Servers and workstations can be a good start. We do not have to maintain an exhaustive list of webcams' keyboards, printers (linuxprinting does a good job) and mice etc. We could also have several maintainers for the HCL based on categories. Chida From nman64 at n-man.com Sun Jun 5 23:25:03 2005 From: nman64 at n-man.com (Patrick Barnes) Date: Sun, 05 Jun 2005 18:25:03 -0500 Subject: HCL Considered Harmfull [Re: Fedora HCL guide writers?] In-Reply-To: <71b7a98905060515534f020d66@mail.gmail.com> References: <20050605115511.2b5af794.Tommy.Reynolds@MegaCoder.com> <1117994326.4263.11.camel@humboldt.eln.lan> <42A34D6D.9010300@cox.net> <20050605161908.105d7a00.Tommy.Reynolds@MegaCoder.com> <42A36FE2.5020705@n-man.com> <71b7a98905060515534f020d66@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <42A389CF.70600@n-man.com> Chidananda Jayakeerti wrote: >Thanks for the comments so far. I do understand the task is >monumental. However, if drivers are being written and maintained for >hardware, maintaining a compatibility list should be possible and will >be immensly use to users. > >Is it possible to achieve an HCL for limited set of hardware, to begin >with. Servers and workstations can be a good start. We do not have to >maintain an exhaustive list of webcams' keyboards, printers >(linuxprinting does a good job) and mice etc. > >We could also have several maintainers for the HCL based on categories. > >Chida > > > Trying, especially with a non-commercial project, to maintain any sort of HCL is a dangerous effort. Those writing the HCL will always be chasing the facts. Things simply change too rapidly. Even when you break it down to a small subset, attempting maintenance is a daunting task. On top of that, it is impossible to guarantee that any particular piece of hardware will work. There are simply too many variables. Certifying hardware for a price is one thing, trying to compile a list of all working vs. non-working hardware is another. Even certification programs have not been very successful. It creates a huge user-support nightmare, with people constantly complaining because the list says one thing and they get different results. There is no way to avoid this problem. The effort would be better spent trying to make the stuff work, not listing what works and what doesn't. The Fedora Project trying to maintain a list of compatible hardware would be a never-ending nightmare, creating more problems than it solves, and with no gain for the community or the project. We don't have a very large team of writers as it is, and the other developers need not waste their time maintaining such a list. You should ask Mike Harris for his opinion on telling people whether or not something should work. He makes a good point. It is simply not something we should engage at any level. -- Patrick "The N-Man" Barnes nman64 at n-man.com www.n-man.com -- -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: signature.asc Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 189 bytes Desc: OpenPGP digital signature URL: From Tommy.Reynolds at MegaCoder.com Sun Jun 5 23:40:15 2005 From: Tommy.Reynolds at MegaCoder.com (Tommy Reynolds) Date: Sun, 5 Jun 2005 18:40:15 -0500 Subject: HCL Considered Harmfull [Re: Fedora HCL guide writers?] In-Reply-To: <42A389CF.70600@n-man.com> References: <20050605115511.2b5af794.Tommy.Reynolds@MegaCoder.com> <1117994326.4263.11.camel@humboldt.eln.lan> <42A34D6D.9010300@cox.net> <20050605161908.105d7a00.Tommy.Reynolds@MegaCoder.com> <42A36FE2.5020705@n-man.com> <71b7a98905060515534f020d66@mail.gmail.com> <42A389CF.70600@n-man.com> Message-ID: <20050605184015.487ed88f.Tommy.Reynolds@MegaCoder.com> Uttered Patrick Barnes , spake thus: > Chidananda Jayakeerti wrote: > >Is it possible to achieve an HCL for limited set of hardware, to begin > >with. Servers and workstations can be a good start. We do not have to > >maintain an exhaustive list of webcams' keyboards, printers > >(linuxprinting does a good job) and mice etc. > >We could also have several maintainers for the HCL based on categories. > Trying, especially with a non-commercial project, to maintain any sort > of HCL is a dangerous effort. Those writing the HCL will always be > chasing the facts. Things simply change too rapidly. Well, that may be overstating things a bit. Consider: every X months (X=3 or so), a new FCn release is made with a FINITE number of included device drivers. Currently we are in the semi-ridiculous position of attempting to offer an operating system without even an un-clear statement of what hardware that release supports. Now, there are actually only a handful or so of new devices added between FC(n) and FC(n+1). After the initial effort of producing the first: Manufacturer,Device,(FCn version, tested date)* list tracking the Fedora Core (only) shouldn't be that onerous a maintanance task. The "Supported Devices" list should earn a place on the distro CD, just as the Release Notes have done. And be just as stable. I dislike the HCL idea, and the HIL, because they are unbounded activities more suitable to a personal web site than part of the FDP which is about the differentiation of the Fedora Core releases from other Linux projects. Thus, I think the "Got Drivers?" doc entirely appropriate as a FDP project and the HCL/HIL more of a personal Wiki-type effort. In summary: HCL/HIL good project, just not authoritative to be an FDP. Contriwise, the "Got Drivers?" listing should be part of the product definition. See the difference? Cheers -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 189 bytes Desc: not available URL: From geoganoe at cox.net Mon Jun 6 02:22:18 2005 From: geoganoe at cox.net (George Ganoe) Date: Sun, 05 Jun 2005 22:22:18 -0400 Subject: HCL Considered Harmfull [Re: Fedora HCL guide writers?] In-Reply-To: <42A35F2E.4020306@n-man.com> References: <20050605115511.2b5af794.Tommy.Reynolds@MegaCoder.com> <1117994326.4263.11.camel@humboldt.eln.lan> <42A34D6D.9010300@cox.net> <42A35F2E.4020306@n-man.com> Message-ID: <42A3B35A.4000500@cox.net> Patrick Barnes wrote: > > > I think an 'HIL' would suffer exactly the same problems and an HCL, just > from a different perspective. Anymore, such a list is really not even > necessary. Very, very little hardware still cannot be used with Linux. > Some older, proprietary, and rare hardware will not run, but overall > your odds are as good with Linux as they are with Windows. The only > concern is how much effort getting the hardware to run will take. An > HCL/HIL will not solve that, but Google queries work nicely to pull up > guides for most hardware. This will become even more of a moot point > going forward. At the moment, you have much better odds of hardware > working on a 64-bit Linux system than you do with a 64-bit Windows > system. Linux is not the niche OS it once was. The need for HCL/HIL's is > fading. > If indeed, it is true that very little hardware cannot be used, that should make the job of producing a HIL list very easy. Such a list would reduce the duplication of effort required by every user trying to get hardware for their system. Also, such a list would provide incentive for manufacturers who produce proprietary hardware to get themselves off the list. I have been burned a few times already by getting hardware that I found out later lacked a Linux driver because it was proprietary and the manufacturer either didn't care or felt no need to enable the open source community to create drivers. Even if the hardware is returned, the time and effort involved is often more valuable than the purchase price of the hardware. It may not be the job of the FDP to create such a list, but it would be a great community service for someone to do it, and the FDP has the visibility to make influence and support such an effort. George From byte at aeon.com.my Sun Jun 5 13:02:34 2005 From: byte at aeon.com.my (Colin Charles) Date: Sun, 05 Jun 2005 06:02:34 -0700 Subject: fedoraproject.org In-Reply-To: <42A1DAFB.6080604@n-man.com> References: <42A1DAFB.6080604@n-man.com> Message-ID: <1117976554.25131.19.camel@arena.soho.bytebot.net> On Sat, 2005-06-04 at 11:46 -0500, Patrick Barnes wrote: > I'm not clear on this. Who is responsible for http://fedoraproject.org/ > ? I'm not sure how many people actually use this base URL, but it needs > some loving. One of the links is broken, and it could be more > informational. The Fedora Project. Any number of us in the EditGroup can fix anything in /wiki. A few other of us can fix the rest of the things around the box too ;-) > One idea that I had is that this URL could redirect to > http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/ and that the Wiki's front page could > feature all of the existing links, with a brief description. This would > allow easier maintenance, and would automagically make the page more useful. Isn't that what we currently have? Links to sub-topics, where that later links off to other things too? > With Red Hat announcing the creation of The Fedora Foundation, it seems > like Fedora's information will eventually move away from > fedora.redhat.com to its own domain. I don't know if this would be Hmm, well, you're as much in the dark on this as a lot of us. Hold your horses, and I don't think things are magically going to migrate to fp.o > For reference, the broken link currently at http://fedoraproject.org is > the 'Fedora FAQ pages at homelinux' link, which points to > http://fedoraproject.org/faq , which redirects to > http://fcp.homelinux.org/modules/wffaq when it should redirect to > http://fcp.homelinux.org/modules/smartfaq . Thanks. If its still not fixed till later (and thats not on the wiki, so it requires someone with access to the box), I'll get to it -- Colin Charles, http://www.bytebot.net/ From sundaram at redhat.com Mon Jun 6 05:36:28 2005 From: sundaram at redhat.com (Rahul Sundaram) Date: Mon, 06 Jun 2005 11:06:28 +0530 Subject: HCL Considered Harmfull [Re: Fedora HCL guide writers?] In-Reply-To: <20050605161908.105d7a00.Tommy.Reynolds@MegaCoder.com> References: <20050605115511.2b5af794.Tommy.Reynolds@MegaCoder.com> <1117994326.4263.11.camel@humboldt.eln.lan> <42A34D6D.9010300@cox.net> <20050605161908.105d7a00.Tommy.Reynolds@MegaCoder.com> Message-ID: <42A3E0DC.2050402@redhat.com> Hi >Hmm... an "avoid like the plague" list might be helpful but it may >also annoy folks (liability issues for lost revenue?). This list, >too, will probably prove to be rather volatile. > Some devices just dont work on Linux. If just stating that these devices dont work on Linux would annoy those vendors, they should really be working on fixing the problem. I like the idea of having a a good HIL. If there is enough interest in this people can even start working on both ways but dont understimate the work involved here. regards Rahul From pnasrat at redhat.com Mon Jun 6 12:35:06 2005 From: pnasrat at redhat.com (Paul Nasrat) Date: Mon, 06 Jun 2005 08:35:06 -0400 Subject: HCL Considered Harmfull [Re: Fedora HCL guide writers?] In-Reply-To: <20050605184015.487ed88f.Tommy.Reynolds@MegaCoder.com> References: <20050605115511.2b5af794.Tommy.Reynolds@MegaCoder.com> <1117994326.4263.11.camel@humboldt.eln.lan> <42A34D6D.9010300@cox.net> <20050605161908.105d7a00.Tommy.Reynolds@MegaCoder.com> <42A36FE2.5020705@n-man.com> <71b7a98905060515534f020d66@mail.gmail.com> <42A389CF.70600@n-man.com> <20050605184015.487ed88f.Tommy.Reynolds@MegaCoder.com> Message-ID: <1118061306.3260.5.camel@enki.eridu> On Sun, 2005-06-05 at 18:40 -0500, Tommy Reynolds wrote: > Uttered Patrick Barnes , spake thus: > > > Chidananda Jayakeerti wrote: > > >Is it possible to achieve an HCL for limited set of hardware, to begin > > >with. Servers and workstations can be a good start. We do not have to > > >maintain an exhaustive list of webcams' keyboards, printers > > >(linuxprinting does a good job) and mice etc. > > >We could also have several maintainers for the HCL based on categories. > > Trying, especially with a non-commercial project, to maintain any sort > > of HCL is a dangerous effort. Those writing the HCL will always be > > chasing the facts. Things simply change too rapidly. > > Well, that may be overstating things a bit. > > Consider: every X months (X=3 or so), a new FCn release is made with > a FINITE number of included device drivers. Currently we are in the > semi-ridiculous position of attempting to offer an operating system > without even an un-clear statement of what hardware that release > supports. I really think you completely underestimate the task just a single example - wireless cards are a particular bane as a manufacturers card will just change chipset with no other necessary difference. So a vendor/brandname wireless card can go from supported to unsupported depending on what "version" (usually invisible) you purchase. Sometimes you can differenciate between things like Made in X or Made in Y on the back of the card, but without full chipset info on the boxes having it's fruitless. > Now, there are actually only a handful or so of new devices added > between FC(n) and FC(n+1). But things change rapidly - eg support for synaptics/input devices does vary between kernel versions and also laptop models (some people seem to have quite odd issues) - again you need to have documented the touchpad chipset (ALPS/Synaptics) and against kernel, xorg driver and particular laptop quirks. > After the initial effort of producing the > first: > > Manufacturer,Device,(FCn version, tested date)* See above why this is impossible for some hardware to provide the user with any particularly meaningful data. Paul From kwade at redhat.com Mon Jun 6 15:26:12 2005 From: kwade at redhat.com (Karsten Wade) Date: Mon, 06 Jun 2005 08:26:12 -0700 Subject: HCL Considered Harmfull [Re: Fedora HCL guide writers?] In-Reply-To: <71b7a98905060515534f020d66@mail.gmail.com> References: <20050605115511.2b5af794.Tommy.Reynolds@MegaCoder.com> <1117994326.4263.11.camel@humboldt.eln.lan> <42A34D6D.9010300@cox.net> <20050605161908.105d7a00.Tommy.Reynolds@MegaCoder.com> <42A36FE2.5020705@n-man.com> <71b7a98905060515534f020d66@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <1118071572.12368.197.camel@erato.phig.org> On Sun, 2005-06-05 at 15:53 -0700, Chidananda Jayakeerti wrote: > Thanks for the comments so far. I do understand the task is > monumental. However, if drivers are being written and maintained for > hardware, maintaining a compatibility list should be possible and will > be immensly use to users. When looking over a writing project for FDP support, I think of two main things: a) Is it focused on and useful for Fedora? b) Will the writer(s) have some reasonable chance of success? Perhaps when we are a more established project with a number of successes, we might be in a better position to change b) somewhat. This concern about success is not as much for the project as it is for the writers themselves. Our most valuable resource is our writers, and burning them out on nearly impossible tasks is not good. Here are the ideas that don't sound feasible right now: * Hardware Compatability List * Hardware Incompatability List * Driver List by release The arguments against each of these ideas are compelling. Looking at that list, I also see that they are far from short, task- based documentation. Believe me, no one wants to get *paid* to maintain these lists, we surely don't want to volunteer to do so. These ideas sound useful and could be persued: * Short addition to relnotes about how to find help with a user's hardware combination. * Tutorial on the same, but more complex. Talks the reader through discovering exactly what hardware they have (including booting with a live CD in order to get hardware details before installing), explains how to find out the latest details on that hardware, and presents how-to information on many of the common commands useful in making hardware work. Some common examples such as the ipw2200 or synaptics drivers would be appropriate. * True automagic that will take a snapshot of what drivers we apparently ship with, done as part of the release notes build. In essence, a long list of what you find through the config tool when you are configuring a piece of hardware. * Dedicated hardware beat writer for the release notes who keeps on top of nasty combinations known to do evil things and clever fixes that tend to work (ide=nodma for example). The fact is, our true hardware (in)compatability list is always and only within community knowledge. By the time we take a snapshot of that knowledge, it will have changed. Think of one of the lists as akin to a list of places to go fish. It can never truly tell you what you will find when you get to a fishing hole. Nor does it tell you *how* to be successful at fishing. Chida and others who are interested in resolving the hardware problems Fedora users face -- I think the better challenge is in teaching users how to fish. It will not solve any number of particular problems, but it will help to solve many times more actual problems. - Karsten -- Karsten Wade, RHCE * Sr. Tech Writer * http://people.redhat.com/kwade/ gpg fingerprint: 2680 DBFD D968 3141 0115 5F1B D992 0E06 AD0E 0C41 Red Hat SELinux Guide http://www.redhat.com/docs/manuals/enterprise/RHEL-4-Manual/selinux-guide/ -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: signature.asc Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 189 bytes Desc: This is a digitally signed message part URL: From kwade at redhat.com Mon Jun 6 15:52:18 2005 From: kwade at redhat.com (Karsten Wade) Date: Mon, 06 Jun 2005 08:52:18 -0700 Subject: self-introductions (was Re: HCL Considered Harmfull [Re: Fedora HCL guide writers?]) In-Reply-To: <20050605115511.2b5af794.Tommy.Reynolds@MegaCoder.com> References: <20050605115511.2b5af794.Tommy.Reynolds@MegaCoder.com> Message-ID: <1118073138.12368.206.camel@erato.phig.org> On Sun, 2005-06-05 at 11:55 -0500, Tommy Reynolds wrote: > > How do I go about starting one? I could do the SelfIntroduction stuff > > (although i'm not too comfortable reveling my residence address to a > > mailing list :). > > We would welcome your contribution to the Docs project. A > self-introduction is, rather firmly, the most minimal of membership > requirements. We won't come to your house to check your address, but > notice the section that asks "Why should we trust you?". > > I think an address of at least the city? country? continent? world? > solar system? galaxy? 'verse? is intended to give folks some idea of > whom you are. Wade, is this right? Anonymity outside of this project can be OK, but we do need to know who people are. Where you are at is an important part of this. It fosters real-world community that is essential for our success. That said, a specific hard-address should not be required. A city, country, or even timezone would be helpful. The instructions only call for city or country currently. If I see that someone is from the Pacific timezone, I might send a personal email asking if they are near my town of Santa Cruz, California. There are certainly communities on the Internet that are entirely anonymous and one is known by your work alone. I don't think that model will work for Fedora. I've updated the Wiki to reflect this philosophy. - Karsten -- Karsten Wade, RHCE * Sr. Tech Writer * http://people.redhat.com/kwade/ gpg fingerprint: 2680 DBFD D968 3141 0115 5F1B D992 0E06 AD0E 0C41 Red Hat SELinux Guide http://www.redhat.com/docs/manuals/enterprise/RHEL-4-Manual/selinux-guide/ -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: signature.asc Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 189 bytes Desc: This is a digitally signed message part URL: From nman64 at n-man.com Tue Jun 7 19:47:02 2005 From: nman64 at n-man.com (Patrick Barnes) Date: Tue, 07 Jun 2005 14:47:02 -0500 Subject: release-notes/FC4 kernel.xml,1.5,1.6 In-Reply-To: <200506071935.j57JZJMd006205@cvs-int.fedora.redhat.com> References: <200506071935.j57JZJMd006205@cvs-int.fedora.redhat.com> Message-ID: <42A5F9B6.7090604@n-man.com> Karsten Wade (kwade) wrote: >Author: kwade > >Update of /cvs/docs/release-notes/FC4 >In directory cvs-int.fedora.redhat.com:/tmp/cvs-serv6186 > >Modified Files: > kernel.xml >Log Message: >Fixes broken tags during my minor refactoring, indents content. > > >Index: kernel.xml >=================================================================== >RCS file: /cvs/docs/release-notes/FC4/kernel.xml,v >retrieving revision 1.5 >retrieving revision 1.6 >diff -u -r1.5 -r1.6 >--- kernel.xml 7 Jun 2005 19:23:54 -0000 1.5 >+++ kernel.xml 7 Jun 2005 19:35:16 -0000 1.6 >@@ -18,9 +18,13 @@ >
> Version > >- The &DISTRO; is based on a 2.6.11 kernel. >- &FC; may include additional patches for improvements, bug fixes, or additional features. >- For this reason, the &FC; kernel may not be line-for-line equivalent to the so-called vanilla kernel from the kernel.org web site. >+ The &DISTRO; is based on a 2.6.11 kernel. &FC; may include >+ additional patches for improvements, bug fixes, or additional >+ features. For this reason, the &FC; kernel may not be >+ line-for-line equivalent to the so-called vanilla kernel from the >+ + url="http://ww.kernel.org">kernel.org > > ww.kernel.org -> Typo? >+ web site. > > > You may obtain a list of any such patches by using the command on the &FC; package: >@@ -37,10 +41,13 @@ > > > >- Native kernel, in both uniprocessor and SMP varieties. >+ Native kernel, in both uniprocessor and SMP >+ varieties. > > >- Configured sources are available in the kernel-devel-<version>.<arch>.rpm package. >+ Configured sources are available in the >+ kernel-devel-<version>.<arch>.rpm >+ package. > > > >@@ -48,17 +55,20 @@ > Virtual kernel for use with the Xen emulator package. > > >- Configured sources are available in the kernel-xen0-devel-<version>.<arch>.rpm package. >+ Configured sources are available in the >+ kernel-xen0-devel-<version>.<arch>.rpm >+ package. > > > > > Sources for both kernel flavors may be installed at the same time. >- The files will be installed into the /usr/src/kernels/<version>[-xen0]-<arch>/ tree. >- Use the command: >+ The files will be installed into the >+ /usr/src/kernels/<version>[-xen0]-<arch>/ >+ tree. Use the command: > > >-rpm -Uvh kernel-devel[-xen0]-<version>.<arch>.rpm >+rpm -Uvh kernel-devel[-xen0]-<version>.<arch>.rpm > > > as appropriate. >@@ -66,9 +76,12 @@ > > Following Generic Textbooks > >- Many of the tutorials, examples, and textbooks about Linux kernel development assume the kernel sources are installed under the /usr/src/linux directory. >- If you make a symbolic link, as shown below, you should be able to use those learning materials with the &FC; packages. >- Install the appropriate kernel sources, as shown earlier, and then: >+ Many of the tutorials, examples, and textbooks about Linux >+ kernel development assume the kernel sources are installed under >+ the /usr/src/linux directory. If you make a >+ symbolic link, as shown below, you should be able to use those >+ learning materials with the &FC; packages. Install the >+ appropriate kernel sources, as shown earlier, and then: > > > ln -s /usr/src/kernels/kernel-<all-the-rest> /usr/src/linux >@@ -95,32 +108,43 @@ > Preparing for Kernel Development > > >- &DISTRO; &DISTROVER; does not include the kernel-source package provided by older versions. >- Instead, configured sources are available as described in . >- Users that require access to &FC; original kernel sources can find them in the kernel .src.rpm package. >- To create an exploded source tree from this file, perform the following steps: >- >- >- These Instructions Refer to the Currently-running Kernel! >- >- To simplify the following directions, we have assumed that you want to configure the kernel sources to match your currently-running kernel. >- In the steps below, you must understand that the phrase >- <version> refers to the kernel >- version shown by this command: >+ &DISTRO; &DISTROVER; does not include the >+ kernel-source package provided by older >+ versions. Instead, configured sources are available as described >+ in + linkend="sn-kernel-flavors"/>. Users that require access to &FC; >+ original kernel sources can find them in the >+ kernel .src.rpm package. >+ To create an exploded source tree from this file, perform the >+ following steps: > >+ >+ These Instructions Refer to the Currently-running Kernel! >+ >+ To simplify the following directions, we have assumed that you >+ want to configure the kernel sources to match your >+ currently-running kernel. In the steps below, you must >+ understand that the phrase >+ <version> refers to the kernel >+ version shown by this command: >+ > > uname -r > >- >+ > > > >- Obtain the kernel-<version>.src.rpm file from one of the following sources: >+ Obtain the >+ kernel-<version>.src.rpm >+ file from one of the following sources: > > > > >- The SRPMS directory on the appropriate SRPMS CD iso image. >+ The SRPMS directory on the >+ appropriate SRPMS >+ CD iso image. > > > >@@ -141,13 +165,17 @@ > > > >- Install kernel-<version>.src.rpm using the command: >+ Install >+ kernel-<version>.src.rpm >+ using the command: > > > rpm -Uvh kernel-<version>.src.rpm > > >- This writes the RPM contents into /usr/src/redhat/SOURCES and /usr/src/redhat/SPECS. >+ This writes the RPM contents into >+ /usr/src/redhat/SOURCES and >+ /usr/src/redhat/SPECS. > > > >@@ -159,8 +187,13 @@ > rpmbuild -bp --target $(arch) kernel.spec > > >- The kernel source tree will be located in the /usr/src/redhat/BUILD/kernel-<version> directory. >- It is common practice to move the resulting linux-<version> directory to the /usr/src tree; while not strictly necessary, we suggest that you do this to match the generally-available documentation. >+ The kernel source tree will be located in the >+ /usr/src/redhat/BUILD/kernel-<version> >+ directory. It is common practice to move the resulting >+ linux-<version> >+ directory to the /usr/src tree; while not >+ strictly necessary, we suggest that you do this to match the >+ generally-available documentation. > > > cd /usr/src/redhat/BUILD/kernel-<version> /usr/src/ >@@ -172,9 +205,13 @@ > > > >- The configurations for the specific kernels shipped in &DISTRO; &DISTROVER; are in the configs/ directory. >- For example, the i686 SMP configuration file is named configs/kernel-<version>-i686-smp.config. >- Issue the following command to place the desired configuration file in the proper place for building: >+ The configurations for the specific kernels shipped in >+ &DISTRO; &DISTROVER; are in the configs/ >+ directory. For example, the i686 SMP configuration file is >+ named >+ configs/kernel-<version>-i686-smp.config. >+ Issue the following command to place the desired configuration >+ file in the proper place for building: > > > cp configs/<desired-config-file> .config >@@ -196,10 +233,14 @@ >
> Building Only Kernel Modules > >- An exploded source tree is not required to build a kernel module, such as your own device driver, against the currently in-use kernel. >+ An exploded source tree is not required to >+ build a kernel module, such as your own device driver, against the >+ currently in-use kernel. > > >- For example, to build the foo.ko module, create the following Makefile in the directory containing the foo.c file: >+ For example, to build the foo.ko module, >+ create the following Makefile in the >+ directory containing the foo.c file: > > > obj-m := foo.o >@@ -218,10 +259,20 @@ >
> Userspace Dependancies on the Kernel > >- &DISTRO; adds support for clustered systems. >- This requires a special kernel that works in conjunction with some user-space utilities, such as management daemons. >- Consequently, to remove such a kernel, perhaps after an update, you cannot simply use the rpm -e kernel-<version> command as in earlier distributions because these userspace packages depend on the kernel package. >- You may either list both the kernel package and its userspace dependant packages on the rpm -e command, or you may wish to use the yum remove kernel-<version> command instead since yum automatically removes dependant packages if necesssary. >+ &DISTRO; adds support for clustered systems. This requires a >+ special kernel that works in conjunction with some user-space >+ utilities, such as management daemons. Consequently, to remove >+ such a kernel, perhaps after an update, you >+ cannot simply use the rpm -e >+ kernel-<version> >+ command as in earlier distributions because these userspace >+ packages depend on the kernel package. You may either list both >+ the kernel package and its userspace dependant packages on the >+ rpm -e command, or you may wish to use the >+ yum remove >+ kernel-<version> >+ command instead since yum automatically removes >+ dependant packages if necesssary. > >
>
> >-- >Fedora-docs-commits mailing list >Fedora-docs-commits at redhat.com >https://www.redhat.com/mailman/listinfo/fedora-docs-commits > > > Other than the error in the kernel.org URL, looking good. -- Patrick "The N-Man" Barnes nman64 at n-man.com www.n-man.com -- -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: signature.asc Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 189 bytes Desc: OpenPGP digital signature URL: From kwade at redhat.com Tue Jun 7 19:59:31 2005 From: kwade at redhat.com (Karsten Wade) Date: Tue, 07 Jun 2005 12:59:31 -0700 Subject: release-notes/FC4 kernel.xml,1.5,1.6 In-Reply-To: <42A5F9B6.7090604@n-man.com> References: <200506071935.j57JZJMd006205@cvs-int.fedora.redhat.com> <42A5F9B6.7090604@n-man.com> Message-ID: <1118174371.12368.236.camel@erato.phig.org> On Tue, 2005-06-07 at 14:47 -0500, Patrick Barnes wrote: > >+ url="http://ww.kernel.org">kernel.org > > > > > ww.kernel.org -> Typo? Good eye! Fixed and uploaed, thanks. - Karsten, who now really thinks the release notes are really now really done -- Karsten Wade, RHCE * Sr. Tech Writer * http://people.redhat.com/kwade/ gpg fingerprint: 2680 DBFD D968 3141 0115 5F1B D992 0E06 AD0E 0C41 Red Hat SELinux Guide http://www.redhat.com/docs/manuals/enterprise/RHEL-4-Manual/selinux-guide/ -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: signature.asc Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 189 bytes Desc: This is a digitally signed message part URL: From andrewm at inventa.ru Tue Jun 7 21:05:42 2005 From: andrewm at inventa.ru (Andrew Martynov) Date: Wed, 8 Jun 2005 01:05:42 +0400 Subject: release-notes/FC4 kernel.xml,1.5,1.6 In-Reply-To: <1118174371.12368.236.camel@erato.phig.org> References: <200506071935.j57JZJMd006205@cvs-int.fedora.redhat.com> <42A5F9B6.7090604@n-man.com> <1118174371.12368.236.camel@erato.phig.org> Message-ID: <20050607210542.GA24152@mk61.inventa.ru> Hello, Karsten! Should translators wait for Release Notes final readiness or translation process will be started later but prior to FC5? I have Russian translation of TXT variant of FC4 Release Notes and can put the translated text into XML using xml2pot/po2xml. If possible we (Russian team) would like to include our work into FC4 release. Andrew Martynov Inventa On Tue, Jun 07, 2005 at 12:59:31PM -0700, Karsten Wade wrote: > On Tue, 2005-06-07 at 14:47 -0500, Patrick Barnes wrote: > > > >+ url="http://ww.kernel.org">kernel.org > > > > > > > > ww.kernel.org -> Typo? > > Good eye! Fixed and uploaed, thanks. > > - Karsten, who now really thinks the release notes are really now really > done > -- > Karsten Wade, RHCE * Sr. Tech Writer * http://people.redhat.com/kwade/ > gpg fingerprint: 2680 DBFD D968 3141 0115 5F1B D992 0E06 AD0E 0C41 > Red Hat SELinux Guide > http://www.redhat.com/docs/manuals/enterprise/RHEL-4-Manual/selinux-guide/ > -- > fedora-docs-list mailing list > fedora-docs-list at redhat.com > To unsubscribe: > http://www.redhat.com/mailman/listinfo/fedora-docs-list From kwade at redhat.com Tue Jun 7 21:39:43 2005 From: kwade at redhat.com (Karsten Wade) Date: Tue, 07 Jun 2005 14:39:43 -0700 Subject: release-notes/FC4 kernel.xml,1.5,1.6 In-Reply-To: <20050607210542.GA24152@mk61.inventa.ru> References: <200506071935.j57JZJMd006205@cvs-int.fedora.redhat.com> <42A5F9B6.7090604@n-man.com> <1118174371.12368.236.camel@erato.phig.org> <20050607210542.GA24152@mk61.inventa.ru> Message-ID: <1118180383.12368.255.camel@erato.phig.org> On Wed, 2005-06-08 at 01:05 +0400, Andrew Martynov wrote: > Hello, Karsten! > > Should translators wait for Release Notes final readiness or > translation process will be started later but prior to FC5? I was just about to email you to go ahead. The actual release notes that are shipping with FC4 were tagged in CVS last week. This are different from what is currently in CVS. Since we are releasing translations for the Web only right now, I guess it is OK to use the latest in CVS. I'd like to host any translations on fedora.redhat.com/docs/release- notes. (Note: this page is not yet created but will be the FC4 release) The release notes point users there for the latest information and errata. We will have the English-only version that shipped with FC4 and the updated FC4+ relnotes, and can have any translations in that same list. > I have Russian translation of TXT variant of FC4 Release Notes and can > put the translated text into XML using xml2pot/po2xml. If possible > we (Russian team) would like to include our work into FC4 release. I'm sorry to all translators that we aren't getting any translations of the release notes into FC4. There wasn't enough time from the completion of the notes until it went gold. It was hours, not even days. This is because we finished the release notes at literally the last hour before final freeze. This will all be better for FC5 and even the test release notes. As for the po2xml, that sounds great. I'm interested in seeing how it looks. The documentation pages at fedora.redhat.com/docs/ are built first from DocBook HTML output, then wrapped in PHP includes. This means it should be easy to post your translations. Presuming I don't mess up the coding. :) - Karsten -- Karsten Wade, RHCE * Sr. Tech Writer * http://people.redhat.com/kwade/ gpg fingerprint: 2680 DBFD D968 3141 0115 5F1B D992 0E06 AD0E 0C41 Red Hat SELinux Guide http://www.redhat.com/docs/manuals/enterprise/RHEL-4-Manual/selinux-guide/ -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: signature.asc Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 189 bytes Desc: This is a digitally signed message part URL: From kwade at redhat.com Tue Jun 7 21:48:01 2005 From: kwade at redhat.com (Karsten Wade) Date: Tue, 07 Jun 2005 14:48:01 -0700 Subject: Minutes from FDSCo (07 June 2005) Message-ID: <1118180881.12368.258.camel@erato.phig.org> Fedora Documentation Steering Committee (FDSCo) 07-JUN-2005 #fedora-docs on irc.freenode.net IRC log posted to fedora-dsco-list at redhat.com Attendees: ========== Karsten Wade (Chair) Tammy Fox Gavin Henry Mark Johnson Paul Frields Stuart Ellis Agenda: ======= * Release notes really completed * Installation Guide completed, Karsten still editing * DOCG meeting tentative for 27 June New Stuff * Fedora Bounties * Stuart's idea * Others? * Mether is pursuing a kbase idea * AOB * Toolchain update * XML clean-up * Red Hat Magazine publicity for FDP Updates & Notes: ================ * Release notes are gold for FC4. * Installation Guide will be gold very soon. * Rahul Sundaram is pursuing a kbase idea. This is seen by FDSCo as a good way to engage new writers, who can tackle short Q&A style how-to documentation without needing to learn DocBook. Stuart and Karsten are providing point contact within FDSCo for this project. * Mark and Karsten are working on Red Hat documentation toolchain details that they hope to push out to FDP soon. The intention is to keep the toolchains lined up, with the stylesheets (XSL and CSS) as the main difference. No promises yet. New Actions: ============ FDSCo - review DOCG (Documentation Guide) ideas for 28 June meeting. FDP - decide upon common documentation files structure (Paul will post the initial thread). Karsten - create f.r.c/docs/release-notes/ and populate with all historical release notes, as released and errata where appropriate Karsten - Do a final edit on Installation Guide. Karsten - Tag final IG files as FC-4. Karsten - Publish edit and publish IG. Karsten - Connect whoever works on DocBook Wiki with Sopwith for infrastructure discussions. Karsten - Give some interview coverage about FDP and FDSCo. [PR] Paul - Take discussion of docs-common/ to list. Paul - Looking into XML programs to post-process code and clean it up (indenting, whitespace) on the server side. This deals with normalizing the server side where we can't control the client (writer) side. Paul - After 17 June to post a reminder about upcoming DOCG discussion on 28 June. Gavin - Early stab at DOCG details. Stuart - Email f-docs-l about screencast bounty idea Stuart - Follow up with developers of screenasting tools Stuart - Input one or more bounties into FedoraBounties ## 30 -- Karsten Wade, RHCE * Sr. Tech Writer * http://people.redhat.com/kwade/ gpg fingerprint: 2680 DBFD D968 3141 0115 5F1B D992 0E06 AD0E 0C41 Red Hat SELinux Guide http://www.redhat.com/docs/manuals/enterprise/RHEL-4-Manual/selinux-guide/ -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: signature.asc Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 189 bytes Desc: This is a digitally signed message part URL: From andrewm at inventa.ru Tue Jun 7 22:19:23 2005 From: andrewm at inventa.ru (Andrew Martynov) Date: Wed, 8 Jun 2005 02:19:23 +0400 Subject: release-notes/FC4 kernel.xml,1.5,1.6 In-Reply-To: <1118180383.12368.255.camel@erato.phig.org> References: <200506071935.j57JZJMd006205@cvs-int.fedora.redhat.com> <42A5F9B6.7090604@n-man.com> <1118174371.12368.236.camel@erato.phig.org> <20050607210542.GA24152@mk61.inventa.ru> <1118180383.12368.255.camel@erato.phig.org> Message-ID: <20050607221923.GA24493@mk61.inventa.ru> Hello, Karsten! Thank you for quick response. We are starting to translate XML files from current CVS. I hope we will complete the our work in 1-2 days. We will use approach like anaconda-online-help uses: - convert translatable strings into one .pot file - make translation - generate translated XML Regards, Andrew Martynov On Tue, Jun 07, 2005 at 02:39:43PM -0700, Karsten Wade wrote: > On Wed, 2005-06-08 at 01:05 +0400, Andrew Martynov wrote: > > Hello, Karsten! > > > > Should translators wait for Release Notes final readiness or > > translation process will be started later but prior to FC5? > > I was just about to email you to go ahead. > > The actual release notes that are shipping with FC4 were tagged in CVS > last week. This are different from what is currently in CVS. > > Since we are releasing translations for the Web only right now, I guess > it is OK to use the latest in CVS. > > I'd like to host any translations on fedora.redhat.com/docs/release- > notes. (Note: this page is not yet created but will be the FC4 release) > > The release notes point users there for the latest information and > errata. > > We will have the English-only version that shipped with FC4 and the > updated FC4+ relnotes, and can have any translations in that same list. > > > I have Russian translation of TXT variant of FC4 Release Notes and can > > put the translated text into XML using xml2pot/po2xml. If possible > > we (Russian team) would like to include our work into FC4 release. > > I'm sorry to all translators that we aren't getting any translations of > the release notes into FC4. > > There wasn't enough time from the completion of the notes until it went > gold. It was hours, not even days. This is because we finished the > release notes at literally the last hour before final freeze. > > This will all be better for FC5 and even the test release notes. > > As for the po2xml, that sounds great. I'm interested in seeing how it > looks. The documentation pages at fedora.redhat.com/docs/ are built > first from DocBook HTML output, then wrapped in PHP includes. This > means it should be easy to post your translations. Presuming I don't > mess up the coding. :) > > - Karsten > -- > Karsten Wade, RHCE * Sr. Tech Writer * http://people.redhat.com/kwade/ > gpg fingerprint: 2680 DBFD D968 3141 0115 5F1B D992 0E06 AD0E 0C41 > Red Hat SELinux Guide > http://www.redhat.com/docs/manuals/enterprise/RHEL-4-Manual/selinux-guide/ > -- > fedora-docs-list mailing list > fedora-docs-list at redhat.com > To unsubscribe: > http://www.redhat.com/mailman/listinfo/fedora-docs-list From stuart at elsn.org Tue Jun 7 23:27:43 2005 From: stuart at elsn.org (Stuart Ellis) Date: Wed, 08 Jun 2005 00:27:43 +0100 Subject: Fedora Documentation Bounties Message-ID: <1118186863.8741.45.camel@humboldt.eln.lan> As you're probably aware, Fedora is participating in Google's Summer of Code. Below is one provisional bounty specifically for Fedora Docs, involving screencasting, and we'd like your comments and ideas. Note that projects don't have to involve heavy-duty coding (see the library.gnome.org bounty on the GNOME Website). Bounties that can open participation in Fedora Documentation are particularly valuable. For example, developing features of Docbook Wiki or a similar system. We will be posting two or three final Docs bounties on the Fedora page to maximise potential uptake. Fedora Bounties - http://www.fedoraproject.org/wiki/FedoraBounties Google Summer of Code - http://code.google.com/summerofcode.html GNOME Bounties (Documentation) - http://www.gnome.org/bounties/Documentation.html ** Demonstrate Screencasting on Fedora ** Video screen capture or "screencasting" has multiple applications for documentation, training and advocacy. The challenge is to create a working screencast on a Linux desktop using Open Source software, in such a way that it can be easily reproduced by a non-programmer. The file format of the screencast must be playable on a Windows system using either commonly available or pre-installed plug- ins. The twist is that the screencast itself must show the process of installing Fedora Core with the default options. Your screencast should begin with the boot screen, and end with logging in to the completed desktop installation for the first time. How - This bounty allows a range of possible solutions. Virtual machine technologies such as Xen and QEMU may be useful. Alternatively, the Anaconda installation system itself includes support for remote access through VNC and telnet, and as well as support for capturing static screenshots. Pointers - Software that might be useful starting points: Istanbul - http://live.gnome.org/Istanbul VNC2SWF - http://www.unixuser.org/~euske/vnc2swf/ -- Stuart Ellis stuart at elsn.org Fedora Documentation Project: http://fedora.redhat.com/projects/docs/ GPG key ID: 7098ABEA GPG key fingerprint: 68B0 E291 FB19 C845 E60E 9569 292E E365 7098 ABEA -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: signature.asc Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 189 bytes Desc: This is a digitally signed message part URL: From kwade at redhat.com Tue Jun 7 21:48:01 2005 From: kwade at redhat.com (Karsten Wade) Date: Tue, 07 Jun 2005 14:48:01 -0700 Subject: Minutes from FDSCo (07 June 2005) Message-ID: <1118180881.12368.258.camel@erato.phig.org> Fedora Documentation Steering Committee (FDSCo) 07-JUN-2005 #fedora-docs on irc.freenode.net IRC log posted to fedora-dsco-list at redhat.com Attendees: ========== Karsten Wade (Chair) Tammy Fox Gavin Henry Mark Johnson Paul Frields Stuart Ellis Agenda: ======= * Release notes really completed * Installation Guide completed, Karsten still editing * DOCG meeting tentative for 27 June New Stuff * Fedora Bounties * Stuart's idea * Others? * Mether is pursuing a kbase idea * AOB * Toolchain update * XML clean-up * Red Hat Magazine publicity for FDP Updates & Notes: ================ * Release notes are gold for FC4. * Installation Guide will be gold very soon. * Rahul Sundaram is pursuing a kbase idea. This is seen by FDSCo as a good way to engage new writers, who can tackle short Q&A style how-to documentation without needing to learn DocBook. Stuart and Karsten are providing point contact within FDSCo for this project. * Mark and Karsten are working on Red Hat documentation toolchain details that they hope to push out to FDP soon. The intention is to keep the toolchains lined up, with the stylesheets (XSL and CSS) as the main difference. No promises yet. New Actions: ============ FDSCo - review DOCG (Documentation Guide) ideas for 28 June meeting. FDP - decide upon common documentation files structure (Paul will post the initial thread). Karsten - create f.r.c/docs/release-notes/ and populate with all historical release notes, as released and errata where appropriate Karsten - Do a final edit on Installation Guide. Karsten - Tag final IG files as FC-4. Karsten - Publish edit and publish IG. Karsten - Connect whoever works on DocBook Wiki with Sopwith for infrastructure discussions. Karsten - Give some interview coverage about FDP and FDSCo. [PR] Paul - Take discussion of docs-common/ to list. Paul - Looking into XML programs to post-process code and clean it up (indenting, whitespace) on the server side. This deals with normalizing the server side where we can't control the client (writer) side. Paul - After 17 June to post a reminder about upcoming DOCG discussion on 28 June. Gavin - Early stab at DOCG details. Stuart - Email f-docs-l about screencast bounty idea Stuart - Follow up with developers of screenasting tools Stuart - Input one or more bounties into FedoraBounties ## 30 -- Karsten Wade, RHCE * Sr. Tech Writer * http://people.redhat.com/kwade/ gpg fingerprint: 2680 DBFD D968 3141 0115 5F1B D992 0E06 AD0E 0C41 Red Hat SELinux Guide http://www.redhat.com/docs/manuals/enterprise/RHEL-4-Manual/selinux-guide/ ----------------------------------------------- This message was scanned for malicious content and viruses by Finjan Internet Vital Security 1Box(tm) -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: signature.asc Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 189 bytes Desc: This is a digitally signed message part URL: -------------- next part -------------- -- fedora-announce-list mailing list fedora-announce-list at redhat.com http://www.redhat.com/mailman/listinfo/fedora-announce-list ----------------------------------------------- This message was scanned for malicious content and viruses by Finjan Internet Vital Security 1Box(tm) From byte at aeon.com.my Wed Jun 8 13:14:23 2005 From: byte at aeon.com.my (Colin Charles) Date: Wed, 08 Jun 2005 06:14:23 -0700 Subject: Fedora HCL guide writers? In-Reply-To: <71b7a98905060210463d488f47@mail.gmail.com> References: <71b7a98905060210463d488f47@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <1118236463.20494.47.camel@arena.soho.bytebot.net> On Thu, 2005-06-02 at 10:46 -0700, Chidananda Jayakeerti wrote: > I always wished I could lookup Fedora HCL before making hardware > purchasing decisions and lack of availability of such a guide pushed > me to googling. Please look at http://fedoraproject.org/wiki and search for HCL. We have one, really, but it never took off If you're interested in pursuing it further (its a thankless task), don't hesitate to holler -- www.bytebot.net / {colin,byte}@fedoraproject.org FUDCon II @ LinuxTag June 24-25, 2005 in Karlsruhe, Germany http://fedoraproject.com/fudcon/ From plasticmonkey at gmail.com Wed Jun 8 14:50:19 2005 From: plasticmonkey at gmail.com (Philip Johnson) Date: Wed, 8 Jun 2005 15:50:19 +0100 Subject: Fedora HCL guide writers? In-Reply-To: <1118236463.20494.47.camel@arena.soho.bytebot.net> References: <71b7a98905060210463d488f47@mail.gmail.com> <1118236463.20494.47.camel@arena.soho.bytebot.net> Message-ID: On 6/8/05, Colin Charles wrote: > On Thu, 2005-06-02 at 10:46 -0700, Chidananda Jayakeerti wrote: > > I always wished I could lookup Fedora HCL before making hardware > > purchasing decisions and lack of availability of such a guide pushed > > me to googling. > > Please look at http://fedoraproject.org/wiki and search for HCL. We have > one, really, but it never took off It was me and Doncho working on it but we abandoned the wiki version. Too long winded and not suitable for what we envisioned. I'm currently trying to get ubuntu's hardware collection tool working on Fedora (well actually its sorting out the way it uploads files) and then (hopefully) we should be one step further. > > If you're interested in pursuing it further (its a thankless task), > don't hesitate to holler Holler! We could do with as many extra hands as possible :) Email me or Doncho and I'm sure we'll fill you in with what we've done so far and what we hope to do :) And of course your input will be more than welcome. Regards, -- Philip Johnson (PlasticMonkey) From sundaram at redhat.com Wed Jun 8 14:58:05 2005 From: sundaram at redhat.com (Rahul Sundaram) Date: Wed, 08 Jun 2005 20:28:05 +0530 Subject: Fedora HCL guide writers? In-Reply-To: References: <71b7a98905060210463d488f47@mail.gmail.com> <1118236463.20494.47.camel@arena.soho.bytebot.net> Message-ID: <42A7077D.4050303@redhat.com> Hi >It was me and Doncho working on it but we abandoned the wiki version. >Too long winded and not suitable for what we envisioned. I'm currently >trying to get ubuntu's hardware collection tool working on Fedora >(well actually its sorting out the way it uploads files) and then >(hopefully) we should be one step further. > > Interesting. It would be a good idea to put some information on what everyone is doing in the wiki to keep track of things. Its good that you guys are working on this but dont be too shy about it. Let the world know regards Rahul From stickster at gmail.com Wed Jun 8 15:09:03 2005 From: stickster at gmail.com (Paul W. Frields) Date: Wed, 08 Jun 2005 11:09:03 -0400 Subject: CVS problem Message-ID: <1118243343.4675.6.camel@localhost.localdomain> Ahoy there doc'ers, Elliot had a problem with our CVS organization as-is, and Karsten thought it was a good idea[1] to float this by the list. He, and presumably other Fedora developers with similar setups -- and I am assuming he is not the only one -- need an organization for our included CVS bits (xsl/, common/, etc.) that is not going to clash with their other environments. Elliot suggested simply subordinating these to a separate folder, which we could name appropriately. Some suggestions included docs-setup/ and docs-common/. This would mean there would now be docs-setup/xsl/, and so forth. The Makefile we use would have to be patched appropriately, of course. Also at issue is the way people get these bits. When we originally put up the docs-setup module, the assumption was made that we would not be changing this stuff very much. However, the last couple of months have shown that is not the case[2,3], as there have been quite a number of commits there, including: * chunking XSL changes * additional/changed XML entities for: - legal notice - draft & legacy notices - relnotes * CSS changes for HTML rendering In light of the pace of these changes, and the fact that there are more on the horizon, I think we should re-examine requiring people do separate checkouts of a docs-setup module. I believe Karsten agreed with me, so he can pitch in here if desired. It would be great if the docs-setup/ stuff simply came down on the same level with the my- tutorial/ folder, rather than subordinate (my-tutorial/docs-setup/), since the latter implies multiple redundant copies for people working on lots of docs. Focus should be on ease of use for the user (who is not necessarily a developer), maintainability, and maybe other factors I'm forgetting. So, let's open the floor for suggestions and input.... [1] http://www.redhat.com/archives/fedora-dsco-list/2005- June/msg00011.html [2] http://www.redhat.com/archives/fedora-docs-commits/2005- May/thread.html [3] http://www.redhat.com/archives/fedora-docs-commits/2005- June/thread.html -- Paul W. Frields, RHCE http://paul.frields.org/ gpg fingerprint: 3DA6 A0AC 6D58 FEC4 0233 5906 ACDB C937 BD11 3717 Fedora Documentation Project: http://fedora.redhat.com/projects/docs/ -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: signature.asc Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 189 bytes Desc: This is a digitally signed message part URL: From plasticmonkey at gmail.com Wed Jun 8 16:56:21 2005 From: plasticmonkey at gmail.com (Philip Johnson) Date: Wed, 8 Jun 2005 17:56:21 +0100 Subject: Fedora HCL guide writers? In-Reply-To: <1118243823.20494.137.camel@arena.soho.bytebot.net> References: <71b7a98905060210463d488f47@mail.gmail.com> <1118236463.20494.47.camel@arena.soho.bytebot.net> <1118243823.20494.137.camel@arena.soho.bytebot.net> Message-ID: On 6/8/05, Colin Charles wrote: > On Wed, 2005-06-08 at 15:50 +0100, Philip Johnson wrote: > > I'm currently > > trying to get ubuntu's hardware collection tool working on Fedora > > (well actually its sorting out the way it uploads files) and then > > (hopefully) we should be one step further. > > Don't. We're hacking on this one and there are some alternatives. And I > have patches in ~/code/hwdb now too ;-) > > How far have you gotten? > :) Fair enough. I haven't really spent *that* much time looking at it. I played around, changed the head graphic, some of the wording, and I *think* I had pretty much had sorted out stuff server side (apart from the parsing of the information into a human readable format - well, something that's lickable =)). It's pretty simple code from what I looked at, I just spotted its output xml file the other day and *dribbled* because it seemed perfect for. 1. Helping you developer fellows with bugs and what not 2. Building our HCL :). Overall, I'd say I've only put an hour or twos work in - and that includes redoing everything I did when I installed ubuntu permanently on my satellite 1110. *ducks for cover* It's really my fault we've ended up doing similar things - I only told one of the docs guys. > Off-list for a reason atm... more details to fedora-config-list by start > of next week Oki Doki. > -- > Colin Charles, http://www.bytebot.net/ Regards, -- Philip Johnson (PlasticMonkey) From kwade at redhat.com Wed Jun 8 19:15:20 2005 From: kwade at redhat.com (Karsten Wade) Date: Wed, 08 Jun 2005 12:15:20 -0700 Subject: CVS problem In-Reply-To: <1118243343.4675.6.camel@localhost.localdomain> References: <1118243343.4675.6.camel@localhost.localdomain> Message-ID: <1118258120.14462.35.camel@erato.phig.org> On Wed, 2005-06-08 at 11:09 -0400, Paul W. Frields wrote: > In light of the pace of these changes, and the fact that there are more > on the horizon, I think we should re-examine requiring people do > separate checkouts of a docs-setup module. I believe Karsten agreed > with me, so he can pitch in here if desired. It would be great if the > docs-setup/ stuff simply came down on the same level with the my- > tutorial/ folder, rather than subordinate (my-tutorial/docs-setup/), > since the latter implies multiple redundant copies for people working on > lots of docs. Focus should be on ease of use for the user (who is not > necessarily a developer), maintainability, and maybe other factors I'm > forgetting. I think I prefer docs-common as a module name, so will refer to the common files directory that way. There are a few ways to do this: A) docs-common is worked with as being on the same level as all other document modules, and calls to it are relative --> ../docs- common/fedora-entities-en.ent B) docs-common is subordinate to the document modules and is pulled in during the initial checkout --> foo-tutorial/docs-common/ The major problem with option B is that it makes it harder to do customizations in your local sandbox. Everytime you cvs up your foo- tutorial module, it will update docs-common. However, it is awfully convenient to update with one step. You don't have to think about it to have the latest common files. This also works for the initial checkout, you get the common files without asking separately for them, they are just brought in automatically. Using option A we can still make the common module be pulled down automatically, aiui. However, the module being at ../ will protect it from being updated when you don't intend to. This adds the step of needing to find out about changes to the common files and updating docs-common/ separately. A third option is to not have a standard but do each module differently, depending on how the author(ing team) wants it. This means some of us would have ../docs-common and some would have ./docs-common. This might reduce portability of writers and some XML between modules. Confusing running two processes. I see the options being: 1) Easier and less flexible -- foo-tutorial/docs-common/ 2) More steps, more flexible -- foo-tutorial/ and docs-common/ on same level 3) Harder and more flexible -- 1 or 2 depending on the tutorial - Karsten -- Karsten Wade, RHCE * Sr. Tech Writer * http://people.redhat.com/kwade/ gpg fingerprint: 2680 DBFD D968 3141 0115 5F1B D992 0E06 AD0E 0C41 Red Hat SELinux Guide http://www.redhat.com/docs/manuals/enterprise/RHEL-4-Manual/selinux-guide/ -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: signature.asc Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 189 bytes Desc: This is a digitally signed message part URL: From Tommy.Reynolds at MegaCoder.com Wed Jun 8 17:03:18 2005 From: Tommy.Reynolds at MegaCoder.com (Tommy Reynolds) Date: Wed, 8 Jun 2005 12:03:18 -0500 Subject: CVS problem In-Reply-To: <1118243343.4675.6.camel@localhost.localdomain> References: <1118243343.4675.6.camel@localhost.localdomain> Message-ID: <20050608120318.023b4cd0.Tommy.Reynolds@MegaCoder.com> Uttered "Paul W. Frields" , spake thus: As FDP's CVS admin, let me get the ball rolling: > Elliot suggested simply subordinating these to a separate folder, which > we could name appropriately. Some suggestions included docs-setup/ and > docs-common/. This would mean there would now be docs-setup/xsl/, and > so forth. The Makefile we use would have to be patched appropriately, > of course. I think this is a shrug to most folks, but I'm in favor of it. > In light of the pace of these changes, and the fact that there are more > on the horizon, I think we should re-examine requiring people do > separate checkouts of a docs-setup module. I raise objection to this on two points: 1) Duplicate copies if folk check out multiple documents; this is really a minor nit. 2) My real objection was the complication of importing a new document into CVS. Consider: to start a new document, perhaps the easiest way is to check out the "example-tutorial" document, recursively delete all the CVS directories and then import it back as the new document. There are other ways of creating the initial directory tree, so don't get hung up on this point. The key idea is that a new contributor will start with a virgin doc tree that has the "docs-common" stuff as a subdirectory. Now, the author is ready to import the document for the first time. Any existing CVS directories must be deleted as well as the "docs-common" tree before the import is done. I think asking a newbie to be sure to do _any_ preparatory surgery before an import is asking for trouble. It *is* possible to import a "CVS/" directory although CVS is supposed to create that necessary structure and now you've got trouble in River City. Possible solutions are: A) Document, document, document the proper (nonstandard) procedure for importing a document and ask newbies to follow it unerringly; or B) Provide a shell script that will do the cleanup and importing for them and ask that they use the script instead of doing the CVS import themselves. We'll still have to clean up the mess when they ignore the script and try to learn about CVS by doing the import manually; or C) Write a PGP(?) / Wiki(?) / HTML(?) / Java(?) page that will do the selective importing if the newbie just identifies the top-level directory in a form. Very similar to attaching a file to a Yahoo mail message. or D) Keep the "docs-common" as a peer directory that needs be updated only when the CVS structure changes or when a document fails to build because of a missing entity. My point is the current setup has a painless, no-error-possible document import. I don't really care if a stylesheet changes an indent from 0.5in to 0.56in because the document rendering on the local system isn't critical. Anyone wanting "proper" documents can just update the "docs-common" before sending the PDF to the printers. CVS can handle either model, so there is no technological reason to prefer one method over the other. Let the list decide, but let the list make an informed decision; either way works for me. Hope this clarifies the problem for ya'll Cheers -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 189 bytes Desc: not available URL: From kwade at redhat.com Wed Jun 8 20:56:15 2005 From: kwade at redhat.com (Karsten Wade) Date: Wed, 08 Jun 2005 13:56:15 -0700 Subject: CVS problem In-Reply-To: <20050608120318.023b4cd0.Tommy.Reynolds@MegaCoder.com> References: <1118243343.4675.6.camel@localhost.localdomain> <20050608120318.023b4cd0.Tommy.Reynolds@MegaCoder.com> Message-ID: <1118264175.14462.50.camel@erato.phig.org> On Wed, 2005-06-08 at 12:03 -0500, Tommy Reynolds wrote: > Possible solutions are: > > A) Document, document, document the proper (nonstandard) > procedure for importing a document and ask newbies to follow > it unerringly; or > > B) Provide a shell script that will do the cleanup and importing > for them and ask that they use the script instead of doing the > CVS import themselves. We'll still have to clean up the > mess when they ignore the script and try to learn about CVS > by doing the import manually; or > > C) Write a PGP(?) / Wiki(?) / HTML(?) / Java(?) page that will do > the selective importing if the newbie just identifies the > top-level directory in a form. Very similar to attaching a > file to a Yahoo mail message. or > > D) Keep the "docs-common" as a peer directory that needs be > updated only when the CVS structure changes or when a document > fails to build because of a missing entity. Ah, I see. Having docs-common as a peer directory seems to be the least mainentance, hassle, and chance of breaking in a bad way. We can easily have a list of common errors in the Documentation Guide that mean you need to look for an update to docs-common. Options A, B, and C require too much for the value they bring. Option D only risks minor problems for the user that teaches them better how to fish when it happens. > My point is the current setup has a painless, no-error-possible > document import. I don't really care if a stylesheet changes an > indent from 0.5in to 0.56in because the document rendering on the > local system isn't critical. Anyone wanting "proper" documents can > just update the "docs-common" before sending the PDF to the printers. I agree with this except that the current setup does need a tweak, which is why we have this thread. Elliott pointed out the messiness of all the little directories that docs-setup brings down, and he was echoing something that I thought. Already we have four directories that need to be brought down to peer level and updated separately. Reading between the lines in your post, I *think* you agree with this reason for moving everything into a single module, docs-common. - Karsten -- Karsten Wade, RHCE * Sr. Tech Writer * http://people.redhat.com/kwade/ gpg fingerprint: 2680 DBFD D968 3141 0115 5F1B D992 0E06 AD0E 0C41 Red Hat SELinux Guide http://www.redhat.com/docs/manuals/enterprise/RHEL-4-Manual/selinux-guide/ -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: signature.asc Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 189 bytes Desc: This is a digitally signed message part URL: From Tommy.Reynolds at MegaCoder.com Thu Jun 9 00:29:08 2005 From: Tommy.Reynolds at MegaCoder.com (Tommy Reynolds) Date: Wed, 8 Jun 2005 19:29:08 -0500 Subject: CVS problem In-Reply-To: <1118264175.14462.50.camel@erato.phig.org> References: <1118243343.4675.6.camel@localhost.localdomain> <20050608120318.023b4cd0.Tommy.Reynolds@MegaCoder.com> <1118264175.14462.50.camel@erato.phig.org> Message-ID: <20050608192908.4d2a47d2.Tommy.Reynolds@MegaCoder.com> Uttered Karsten Wade , spake thus: > Reading between the lines in your post, I *think* you agree with this > reason for moving everything into a single module, docs-common. You think correctly! -- .---------------------------------+----------------------------------------. | Tommy Reynolds | Email: | | P O Box 62 | Phone: +1.256.250.5099 | | Danville, AL 35619 USA | Fax: +1.256.350.5099 | | Sr. Software Devel/RHCE | IM: HisDivShadow | +---------------------------------+----------------------------------------+ | Ask MegaCoder.com For Answers! | '--------------------------------------------------------------------------' -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 189 bytes Desc: not available URL: From stickster at gmail.com Thu Jun 9 19:43:37 2005 From: stickster at gmail.com (Paul W. Frields) Date: Thu, 09 Jun 2005 15:43:37 -0400 Subject: CVS problem In-Reply-To: <20050608120318.023b4cd0.Tommy.Reynolds@MegaCoder.com> References: <1118243343.4675.6.camel@localhost.localdomain> <20050608120318.023b4cd0.Tommy.Reynolds@MegaCoder.com> Message-ID: <1118346217.4560.15.camel@localhost.localdomain> On Wed, 2005-06-08 at 12:03 -0500, Tommy Reynolds wrote: > Uttered "Paul W. Frields" , spake thus: > > As FDP's CVS admin, let me get the ball rolling: > > > Elliot suggested simply subordinating these to a separate folder, which > > we could name appropriately. Some suggestions included docs-setup/ and > > docs-common/. This would mean there would now be docs-setup/xsl/, and > > so forth. The Makefile we use would have to be patched appropriately, > > of course. > > I think this is a shrug to most folks, but I'm in favor of it. > > > In light of the pace of these changes, and the fact that there are more > > on the horizon, I think we should re-examine requiring people do > > separate checkouts of a docs-setup module. > > I raise objection to this on two points: > > 1) Duplicate copies if folk check out multiple documents; this is > really a minor nit. Not that minor, wrt Karsten's previous post... could cause problems down the line. > 2) My real objection was the complication of importing a new document > into CVS. > > Consider: to start a new document, perhaps the easiest way is to > check out the "example-tutorial" document, recursively delete all > the CVS directories and then import it back as the new document. > There are other ways of creating the initial directory tree, so > don't get hung up on this point. The key idea is that a new > contributor will start with a virgin doc tree that has the > "docs-common" stuff as a subdirectory. > > Now, the author is ready to import the document for the first > time. Any existing CVS directories must be deleted as well as the > "docs-common" tree before the import is done. > > I think asking a newbie to be sure to do _any_ preparatory surgery > before an import is asking for trouble. It *is* possible to > import a "CVS/" directory although CVS is supposed to create that > necessary structure and now you've got trouble in River City. You're on track here. Ease of use is Goal #1 AFAIC. > Possible solutions are: > > A) Document, document, document the proper (nonstandard) > procedure for importing a document and ask newbies to follow > it unerringly; or > > B) Provide a shell script that will do the cleanup and importing > for them and ask that they use the script instead of doing the > CVS import themselves. We'll still have to clean up the > mess when they ignore the script and try to learn about CVS > by doing the import manually; or > > C) Write a PGP(?) / Wiki(?) / HTML(?) / Java(?) page that will do > the selective importing if the newbie just identifies the > top-level directory in a form. Very similar to attaching a > file to a Yahoo mail message. or > > D) Keep the "docs-common" as a peer directory that needs be > updated only when the CVS structure changes or when a document > fails to build because of a missing entity. I like B because it's magically delicious. No, really, it would be a cool and helpful thing; saves a bunch of steps for everyone, new or not. Not subject to Internet connectivity (very minor nit), plus less work to get it up and running (less minor) :-). > My point is the current setup has a painless, no-error-possible > document import. I don't really care if a stylesheet changes an > indent from 0.5in to 0.56in because the document rendering on the > local system isn't critical. Anyone wanting "proper" documents can > just update the "docs-common" before sending the PDF to the printers. > > CVS can handle either model, so there is no technological reason to > prefer one method over the other. Let the list decide, but let the > list make an informed decision; either way works for me. > > Hope this clarifies the problem for ya'll Excellent, thanks. -- Paul W. Frields, RHCE http://paul.frields.org/ gpg fingerprint: 3DA6 A0AC 6D58 FEC4 0233 5906 ACDB C937 BD11 3717 Fedora Documentation Project: http://fedora.redhat.com/projects/docs/ -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: signature.asc Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 189 bytes Desc: This is a digitally signed message part URL: From stickster at gmail.com Thu Jun 9 19:45:47 2005 From: stickster at gmail.com (Paul W. Frields) Date: Thu, 09 Jun 2005 15:45:47 -0400 Subject: CVS problem In-Reply-To: <1118264175.14462.50.camel@erato.phig.org> References: <1118243343.4675.6.camel@localhost.localdomain> <20050608120318.023b4cd0.Tommy.Reynolds@MegaCoder.com> <1118264175.14462.50.camel@erato.phig.org> Message-ID: <1118346348.4560.18.camel@localhost.localdomain> On Wed, 2005-06-08 at 13:56 -0700, Karsten Wade wrote: > On Wed, 2005-06-08 at 12:03 -0500, Tommy Reynolds wrote: > > > Possible solutions are: > > > > A) Document, document, document the proper (nonstandard) > > procedure for importing a document and ask newbies to follow > > it unerringly; or > > > > B) Provide a shell script that will do the cleanup and importing > > for them and ask that they use the script instead of doing the > > CVS import themselves. We'll still have to clean up the > > mess when they ignore the script and try to learn about CVS > > by doing the import manually; or > > > > C) Write a PGP(?) / Wiki(?) / HTML(?) / Java(?) page that will do > > the selective importing if the newbie just identifies the > > top-level directory in a form. Very similar to attaching a > > file to a Yahoo mail message. or > > > > D) Keep the "docs-common" as a peer directory that needs be > > updated only when the CVS structure changes or when a document > > fails to build because of a missing entity. > > Ah, I see. > > Having docs-common as a peer directory seems to be the least > mainentance, hassle, and chance of breaking in a bad way. > > We can easily have a list of common errors in the Documentation Guide > that mean you need to look for an update to docs-common. > > Options A, B, and C require too much for the value they bring. > > Option D only risks minor problems for the user that teaches them better > how to fish when it happens. I don't think B sounds too hard either. And it goes hand-in-hand with the Documentation Guide's "LearnAsYouGo" slant. I'll make this part of the considerations for the hands-on portion, with the idea that it will be equally helpful to participants who don't need as much hand-holding. > > My point is the current setup has a painless, no-error-possible > > document import. I don't really care if a stylesheet changes an > > indent from 0.5in to 0.56in because the document rendering on the > > local system isn't critical. Anyone wanting "proper" documents can > > just update the "docs-common" before sending the PDF to the printers. > > I agree with this except that the current setup does need a tweak, which > is why we have this thread. Elliott pointed out the messiness of all > the little directories that docs-setup brings down, and he was echoing > something that I thought. Already we have four directories that need to > be brought down to peer level and updated separately. > > Reading between the lines in your post, I *think* you agree with this > reason for moving everything into a single module, docs-common. Makes sense to me too. -- Paul W. Frields, RHCE http://paul.frields.org/ gpg fingerprint: 3DA6 A0AC 6D58 FEC4 0233 5906 ACDB C937 BD11 3717 Fedora Documentation Project: http://fedora.redhat.com/projects/docs/ -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: signature.asc Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 189 bytes Desc: This is a digitally signed message part URL: From kwade at redhat.com Thu Jun 9 19:57:11 2005 From: kwade at redhat.com (Karsten Wade) Date: Thu, 09 Jun 2005 12:57:11 -0700 Subject: CVS problem In-Reply-To: <1118346348.4560.18.camel@localhost.localdomain> References: <1118243343.4675.6.camel@localhost.localdomain> <20050608120318.023b4cd0.Tommy.Reynolds@MegaCoder.com> <1118264175.14462.50.camel@erato.phig.org> <1118346348.4560.18.camel@localhost.localdomain> Message-ID: <1118347031.14462.138.camel@erato.phig.org> On Thu, 2005-06-09 at 15:45 -0400, Paul W. Frields wrote: > On Wed, 2005-06-08 at 13:56 -0700, Karsten Wade wrote: > > On Wed, 2005-06-08 at 12:03 -0500, Tommy Reynolds wrote: > > > > > > > > B) Provide a shell script that will do the cleanup and importing > > > for them and ask that they use the script instead of doing the > > > CVS import themselves. We'll still have to clean up the > > > mess when they ignore the script and try to learn about CVS > > > by doing the import manually; or > > > > I don't think B sounds too hard either. And it goes hand-in-hand with > the Documentation Guide's "LearnAsYouGo" slant. I'll make this part of > the considerations for the hands-on portion, with the idea that it will > be equally helpful to participants who don't need as much hand-holding. As long as B and D are not exclusive. In other words, the shell script is a hand-holding that duplicates the work the rest of us like to do manually. One can progress from the script to manual work, when ready. It seems to me our direction is clear, in that all the CVS heads *and* me agree. :) 1. Move all of the common files to a single module, docs-common 2. Make that a peer of other modules, in terms of build environment and how it is pulled from CVS 3. Adjust build environment and parent XML files to use the new module] 4. Create a shell script that automates the following: a. Clean-up before initial import of source b. Clean-up prior to each commit ... maybe it removes all ~ files and puts anything in .cvsignore that is not already in CVS? How does that look? - Karsten -- Karsten Wade, RHCE * Sr. Tech Writer * http://people.redhat.com/kwade/ gpg fingerprint: 2680 DBFD D968 3141 0115 5F1B D992 0E06 AD0E 0C41 Red Hat SELinux Guide http://www.redhat.com/docs/manuals/enterprise/RHEL-4-Manual/selinux-guide/ -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: signature.asc Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 189 bytes Desc: This is a digitally signed message part URL: From Tommy.Reynolds at MegaCoder.com Thu Jun 9 21:06:07 2005 From: Tommy.Reynolds at MegaCoder.com (Tommy Reynolds) Date: Thu, 9 Jun 2005 16:06:07 -0500 Subject: CVS problem In-Reply-To: <1118347031.14462.138.camel@erato.phig.org> References: <1118243343.4675.6.camel@localhost.localdomain> <20050608120318.023b4cd0.Tommy.Reynolds@MegaCoder.com> <1118264175.14462.50.camel@erato.phig.org> <1118346348.4560.18.camel@localhost.localdomain> <1118347031.14462.138.camel@erato.phig.org> Message-ID: <20050609160607.7c78260a.Tommy.Reynolds@MegaCoder.com> Uttered Karsten Wade , spake thus: > On Thu, 2005-06-09 at 15:45 -0400, Paul W. Frields wrote: > It seems to me our direction is clear, in that all the CVS heads *and* > me agree. :) > 1. Move all of the common files to a single module, docs-common > 2. Make that a peer of other modules, in terms of build environment and > how it is pulled from CVS > 3. Adjust build environment and parent XML files to use the new module] > 4. Create a shell script that automates the following: > a. Clean-up before initial import of source > b. Clean-up prior to each commit ... maybe it removes all ~ files and > puts anything in .cvsignore that is not already in CVS? > How does that look? If you still like the sub-directory method, after the import just put a symlink into your document directory: $ ln -s ../docs-common . and you'll get the same behaviour as the truely-nested version. Unfortunately, CVS doesn't understand symlinks so this must be done AFTER the initial import. Cheers -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 189 bytes Desc: not available URL: From kwade at redhat.com Thu Jun 9 21:34:42 2005 From: kwade at redhat.com (Karsten Wade) Date: Thu, 09 Jun 2005 14:34:42 -0700 Subject: copyrights of wiki contents In-Reply-To: <429E9133.1040003@ybb.ne.jp> References: <429E9133.1040003@ybb.ne.jp> Message-ID: <1118352883.14462.142.camel@erato.phig.org> On Thu, 2005-06-02 at 13:55 +0900, Yoshihiro Totaka wrote: > Hi, I may be wrong to ask this question here (if so I apologise), but I > am wondering about the copyright of wiki contents. Wiki document is > getting more and more popular in fedora document, and I am wondering > whether I am allowed to modify(translate) some of the documents. > > Can I assume those document similar to wikipedea's copyrights(GFDL)? > http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Copyrights Very good question. I do not think you can make any assumptions about the copyright of the fedoraproject.org contents. I've posted this question to this page: http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/FedoraLegalIssues with a link to this thread for on-list follow-up. So far, this is the best method to get legal issues resolved. - Karsten -- Karsten Wade, RHCE * Sr. Tech Writer * http://people.redhat.com/kwade/ gpg fingerprint: 2680 DBFD D968 3141 0115 5F1B D992 0E06 AD0E 0C41 Red Hat SELinux Guide http://www.redhat.com/docs/manuals/enterprise/RHEL-4-Manual/selinux-guide/ -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: signature.asc Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 189 bytes Desc: This is a digitally signed message part URL: From sundaram at redhat.com Sat Jun 11 22:19:24 2005 From: sundaram at redhat.com (Rahul Sundaram) Date: Sun, 12 Jun 2005 03:49:24 +0530 Subject: FC4 feature list? In-Reply-To: References: <42A9E80C.2060202@redhat.com> <8632EDE47E532A7420DC6976@[10.169.6.233]> <42A9E80C.2060202@redhat.com> Message-ID: <42AB636C.80407@redhat.com> Tony Nelson wrote: >At 9:01 AM -0700 6/11/05, Karsten Wade wrote: > > >>Content-Type: multipart/signed; micalg=pgp-sha1; >> protocol="application/pgp-signature"; >> boundary="=-pucgnvM1g3z+Q+ket2ma" >> >>On Sat, 2005-06-11 at 00:50 +0530, Rahul Sundaram wrote: >> >> >> >>>Release notes will be available in an hour or so here: >>>http://fedora.redhat.com/docs/release-notes/ >>> >>> >>It took a little longer than an hour, but the release notes are >>available now. >> >>This is the one that we are releasing in an updated errata, which is the >>one being translated: >> >>http://fedora.redhat.com/docs/release-notes/fc4/errata/ >> >> > >Release notes are good. > >As Colin Adams says, the page looks odd unless I select UTF-8. > > This should be fixed soon. >What is the difference between the release notes and the errata? The pages >look about the same to me.err > > > Yes. The errata is provided as a place for important updates after the release has been made or corrections in it. Currently it does have some differences if you read it carefully >Some things in the release notes are unclear. If they should be reported >somewhere else, someone here will let me know. In any event, I'll learn >something from the discussion (or flaming). > > The errata release notes provides this link http://tinyurl.com/al5g4 for filing bug reports. If you would like to initiate a discussion or provide feedback on the release notes or any other Fedora documentation, fedora docs list (CC'ing this reply) is the best place now. We might have a separate list for release notes in the near future but we havent decided on that yet. I do read this list but this is a high traffic one and not everyone working on the documentation is subscribed to this list or following any discussions related to it here. >1.1 Gnome is now 2.10. I read that wrong for a while, as 2.1.0, and was >confused. If this is happening much, it might be worth spelling it out as >well, "two point ten". > > Potentially a good idea. Would have to careful not to overdo it >5.2 When mediacheck says a disk is faulty, but says it is OK when one >boots the installer with ide=nodma, should the installation be done with >ide=nodma or without? > > > Installation can proceed without this option. Using this option would probably slow down the installation. Using the sha1sum and burning on slower speeds is pretty reliable >How does one use sha1sum? From the installation process, or by booting an >existing linux installation and running it there? (I.e., from where the >CDs were burned.) > > same as md5sum. Run it on the ISO image and check this page http://fedora.redhat.com/download after the release is made. Windows users could use the following link which also contains the rationale for switching over to sha1sum from previously used md5sum checks http://lists.gnupg.org/pipermail/gnupg-ru/2004-December/000158.html Note: I havent tried the Windows version. There might be better options out there >5.3 Re. third party package conflicts during upgrades, does the installer >detect the problem and warn about it? If not, what is a good way to find >them before installing, other than remembering every package installed and >just knowing which ones have conflicts? > > No. The installer overrides it if you have a conflicting package. Solutions to this are pretty tricky. I would suggest relying on official repositories whenever possible and check whether your packages are working properly immediately after the installation. An rpm query on the packager could potentially be used before or after the installation can be used to find out which ones arent provided by Fedora. There are other naming conventions which can be helpful too. As an example Rpmforge repository using the "rf" tag and dag repository uses "dag" (duh!) for easy identification. >Re. Ximian Gnome (which I don't use), when the notes say "immediately" do >they mean during the installations (when?) or during the first boot (from >runlevel 3?)? > > After the installation. Run level really doesnt matter. >6.1.2 Does one need to edit the kernel command line to include audit=1 in >order for auditd to be "enabled by default"? Or is it already enabled, and >"auditing within the kernel" is something else that can also be enabled? > > As I understand it, the audit daemon is enabled by default but you need to enable the kernel part of it explicitly (probably due to performance hits) either during boot time (audit =1) or for the session (*auditctl -e 1)* >6.1.4 Is alocate used by Actions -> Search for Files? (Apparantly yes.) > > I dont think gnome-search-tool using slocate. It is not a build dependency. It doesnt seem to be linked to the binary (ldd). Its not mentioned in the help file either >It seems odd that it isn't enabled by default. I expect that there will be >much confusion (as well as some disk savings) from this. Hopefully Search >for Files will automatically inform users of the problem. I think the FC4 >release notes should mention the dependency. > > One of the reasons for disabling slocate cron (updatedb) by default is that we are currently investigating more intelligent and efficient methods to do this. See "Audit-layer based slocate replacement" in Fedora bounties for a feasible alternative http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/FedoraBounties >6.2.2.3 Step 1: does up2date --get-source kernel work on FC4? It doesn't >work for me on FC3, with a 404 Not Found error for some header.info page. > > You are talking about https://bugzilla.redhat.com/bugzilla/show_bug.cgi?id=141289. I am not aware whether it has been fixed in FC4 or not >Step 3: the command "cd/usr/src/redhat/BUILD/ikernel- /usr/src/" >seems odd to me, having two directories on it. > > > Good time for a release notes errata I guess ;-) regards Rahul From sundaram at redhat.com Sun Jun 12 09:57:57 2005 From: sundaram at redhat.com (Rahul Sundaram) Date: Sun, 12 Jun 2005 15:27:57 +0530 Subject: FC4 feature list? In-Reply-To: References: <42A9E80C.2060202@redhat.com> <8632EDE47E532A7420DC6976@[10.169.6.233]> <42A9E80C.2060202@redhat.com> Message-ID: <42AC0725.3060101@redhat.com> Hi >Well, I just mention it as something unclear from both FC3 and FC4 release >notes. It seems odd that mediacheck would need something to read the disk >successfully, and yet the real install surely doesn't. > > For my understanding this has to do with faulty cd-rom drives which refuse to turn off dma even when explicitly instructed to do so by the kernel. >Well, the release notes would be a good place to put a (full) link to that >sort of thing. Especially with the bug or whatever in mediacheck, there >might be lots of people facing this roadblock when installing on a Windows >machine, as I did, and I had enough trouble figuring out how to do the more >mature MD5 checksum stuff. > > We could have this in the download page itself now. I googled this information after the release notes was made. >>> >>> >>After the installation. Run level really doesnt matter. >> >> > >!! From the tone, I thought Gnome wouldn't work at all. > > It might not. > > > >>>6.1.2 Does one need to edit the kernel command line to include audit=1 in >>>order for auditd to be "enabled by default"? Or is it already enabled, and >>>"auditing within the kernel" is something else that can also be enabled? >>> >>> >>> >>> >>As I understand it, the audit daemon is enabled by default but you need >>to enable the kernel part of it explicitly (probably due to performance >>hits) either during boot time (audit =1) or for the session (*auditctl >>-e 1)* >> >> > >Hmm. So the audit daemon is running by default but not doing anything. > > > > > >>>6.1.4 Is alocate used by Actions -> Search for Files? (Apparantly yes.) >>> >>> > >Oops, slocate, meant to fix that. > > > >>I dont think gnome-search-tool using slocate. It is not a build >>dependency. It doesnt seem to be linked to the binary (ldd). Its not >>mentioned in the help file either >> >> > >I saw it in the FC3 Search for Files help Introduction section: "Search for >Files uses the find, grep, and locate UNIX commands". Maybe that's not >slocate, but man locate brought up the slocate man page. Don't know about >FC4. > > I forgot to mention that my current system is RHEL3 one so things might be different for the search tool in FC4. Many of these problems could be avoided by having more people look into it during the test releases(Yes, they had release notes too) . Some of these are just prioritizing for lack of time in relation to the amount of work necessary . Filing detailed bug reports and initiating early discussions would be most helpful. You could even request CVS access and provide content yourself for that matter. Thank you for your feedback regards Rahul From sundaram at redhat.com Sun Jun 12 16:14:31 2005 From: sundaram at redhat.com (Rahul Sundaram) Date: Sun, 12 Jun 2005 21:44:31 +0530 Subject: FC4 feature list? In-Reply-To: References: <42A9E80C.2060202@redhat.com> <8632EDE47E532A7420DC6976@[10.169.6.233]> <42A9E80C.2060202@redhat.com> Message-ID: <42AC5F67.2000702@redhat.com> Tony Nelson wrote: >Rahul -- should I keep CC'ing the moderated fedora-docs-list? My last >reply is held up for moderation and I haven't received approval or >disapproval yet. Well, likely this is the last reply anyway. > Thats because its a weekend. I can post this thread explicitly to the docs list if it doesnt get moderated. No worries >Well, good. Now add it! (I'm not trying to make you feel bad through >criticism; I'm trying to clear up things that would (have) made the >installation hard for me to do, in hopes of helping others.) > > Yes. I understand that. People were working on the release notes till the last minute literally. Its a big time drain time drain to collect the information and present it as what you can see in the release notes. Makes you want more people to actually read it eh!. Some of these could be improved by changes in the process that is being done. We really need more people to step up and share some of the tasks. The following links contain more information about this if anyone is interested in this http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/DocsProject/ReleaseNotes/Process http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/DocsProject/ReleaseNotes/Beats >>>> >>>> >>>!! From the tone, I thought Gnome wouldn't work at all. >>> >>> >>> >>> >>It might not. >> >> > >Wouldn't this leave the user in a confusing state with no UI? Unless they >went to one of the hidden 6 terminals? > > Not by default. The installer overrides the conflicting Ximian GNOME packages and installs the ones that are integrated within the release. If you choose to not use the Fedora packages and use the third party ones you might be left with a non functional UI. Ximian packages are just an example. This applies to any packages that result in a conflict. Unfortunately I dont think there is any silver bullet solutions to this issue which is why this is being documented in the first place. >You're welcome. I didn't test FC4 because I only started using Linux about >3 weeks ago, and I'm pretty confused even using a stable release. > You should get used to the differences pretty soon. Maybe you will even like at the end of the day ! > That's >why my comments mostly reflect things that a confused user might have >trouble with. Maybe I'll be up to testing FC5 > > New users are probably the best people to write and review such type of documentation. They have a fresh insight into this and would have to revise their own notes into tutorial and short guides for their peers. For the veterans, being too close to the development has a disadvantage of missing out some of "obvious" things regards Rahul From yuan.bbbush at gmail.com Mon Jun 13 09:50:09 2005 From: yuan.bbbush at gmail.com (Yuan Yijun) Date: Mon, 13 Jun 2005 17:50:09 +0800 Subject: zh_CN.po done In-Reply-To: <20050607221923.GA24493@mk61.inventa.ru> References: <200506071935.j57JZJMd006205@cvs-int.fedora.redhat.com> <42A5F9B6.7090604@n-man.com> <1118174371.12368.236.camel@erato.phig.org> <20050607210542.GA24152@mk61.inventa.ru> <1118180383.12368.255.camel@erato.phig.org> <20050607221923.GA24493@mk61.inventa.ru> Message-ID: <9792751e050613025066b3ee1b@mail.gmail.com> Greetings, using A.M.'s scripts, I have translated release-notes/fc4 to zh_CN in merely 8 hours ^_^ The scripts are modified a bit to 1. extract (generate) pot files from xml files, then update existing single po file 2. merge the po file with original xml files and get ready to make The modified scripts use xml2po from gnome instead of xml2pot from KDE. Though it is more easy to use, the xml files must be escaped before processing. The modified scripts can be accessed from fedora-gro cvs[1], thanks to fundawang @ Mandriva, too. BTW, some problems in extract and merge. The most important issue is that both scripts need to be modified in order to be used in an other document, e.g. fedora-install-guide [2]. If there is a Makefile.common just as in fedora-extras, things would be easy. Another issue is there is legalnotice-* both in entities and legalnotice, in processing, the second one is discarded and the documents requires to copy common/legalnotice-* to current directory. -- bbbush ^_^ [1] http://gro.clinux.org/scm/cvsweb.php/sites/com.redhat.fedora.cvs.docs/release-notes/FC4/?cvsroot=fedora [2] http://gro.clinux.org/scm/cvsweb.php/sites/com.redhat.fedora.cvs.docs/install-guide/?cvsroot=fedora From yuan.bbbush at gmail.com Mon Jun 13 09:57:53 2005 From: yuan.bbbush at gmail.com (Yuan Yijun) Date: Mon, 13 Jun 2005 17:57:53 +0800 Subject: zh_CN.po done In-Reply-To: <9792751e050613025066b3ee1b@mail.gmail.com> References: <200506071935.j57JZJMd006205@cvs-int.fedora.redhat.com> <42A5F9B6.7090604@n-man.com> <1118174371.12368.236.camel@erato.phig.org> <20050607210542.GA24152@mk61.inventa.ru> <1118180383.12368.255.camel@erato.phig.org> <20050607221923.GA24493@mk61.inventa.ru> <9792751e050613025066b3ee1b@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <9792751e05061302576a06eca1@mail.gmail.com> 2005/6/13, Yuan Yijun : > Greetings, > fedora-gro cvs[1], thanks to fundawang @ Mandriva, too. > fundawang's scripts can be found here, which I have mentioned before. http://cvs.mandriva.com/cgi-bin/cvsweb.cgi/doc/po/ -- bbbush ^_^ From stickster at gmail.com Mon Jun 13 14:10:56 2005 From: stickster at gmail.com (Paul W. Frields) Date: Mon, 13 Jun 2005 10:10:56 -0400 Subject: xmlformat licensing Message-ID: <1118671856.4564.78.camel@localhost.localdomain> (Excuse the mode, the initial summary is for historical purposes.) The Fedora Documentation Project's (FDP) goal is to "create easy-to- follow, task-based documentation for Fedora Core users and developers."[1] The FDP is part of the Fedora Project. The Fedora Project's overall goal is to "build a complete, general purpose operating system exclusively from open source software."[2] For a few days, some of the Fedora Documentation Project folks have been contemplating using an XML normalization utility to clean up XML into a standardized presentation before a CVS commit happens. The clean up would include, but not be limited to, the following: * set standard fill-column (the columnar position after which unprotected text is wrapped) * set indentation size * set block/inline tag vertical spacing While performing the cleanup procedure, any utility used must also protect the DTD block, any CDATA containers, and any similar containers such as , , and . It must be configurable in such a way that changes to the configuration can be provided cleanly via CVS. Clients would perform this procedure as part of a "make" target before committing changes. The details on this part have yet to be worked out, but we would certainly try to make it as painless as possible -- possibly even simply making it a prerequisite to any other constructive "make" target. Without this step, we are running a risk of generating a lot more white noise in CVS and on the fedora-docs-commits list. In 2003, with a smaller, less visible project, the use of Emacs/PSGML was simply *required*, more or less, so normalization was enforced on the client side without any additional fuss. With more participants, however, we have to confront the fact that people want to use their own favorite tools. XML normalization makes cooperation on the same document possible for writers and editors who enjoy different tools, by ensuring that CVS diffs are sensible. The "tidy" utility is GPL and in Fedora Extras, and it will do some XML cleanup, but it is not designed for this purpose. It was designed as an HTML normalization engine, and simply has some XML functionality. The "xmlformat" utility is designed from the ground up as an XML normalizer, but it is *not* GPL. Thankfully, Tommy Reynolds brought the xmlformat licensing specification to my attention last week, so I've had a little time to think about it. The xmlformat utility is still open source software; although IANAL, I did a pretty thorough review of the licensing of xmlformat and other open source software requirements, and this seems pretty clear-cut. Note that the "open source" requirement *does not* mean the software has to be GPL, or BSD. It merely needs to meet the requirements and definition of "open source."[3] The terms are clear-cut enough that we may not need an official legal opinion from Mark Webbink, but I am willing to put a link to this message at the appropriate wiki location for him to look at if anyone thinks it's necessary. Here are the facts of licensing pertaining to xmlformat: (A) The original portions of xmlformat by Paul DuBois, paul at kitebird com, are licensed under a BSD-style license.[4] The BSD-style license is an open source license. The only portion of xmlformat not covered by this license is the implementation of the REX shallow parser. (B) The REX shallow parser, which is copyrighted by Robert D. Cameron, cameron at sfu ca, is licensed under terms shown below in their entirety: "The following code may be freely used and distributed provided that this copyright and citation notice remains intact and that modifications or additions are clearly identified."[5] The REX shallow parser clearly meets the requirements of the Open Source Definition, to wit: 1. No royalties or fees are imposed upon redistribution of REX. The license specifically and categorically permits free distribution without additional restrictions. 2. The source code for REX is publicly available. 3. The copyright holder for REX allows modifications or derivative works. The licensing terms require these be clearly identified, but it puts no restrictions on their creation. In addition, the terms explicitly permit free use of the material. 4. The license for REX does not set out any requirements for the licensing of modified versions, other than to require the modifications be identified as such. This requirement would allow modified versions to be distributed as the original version plus patches, as doing so would clearly identify modifications and thus meet the requirement. 5. The license for REX does not discriminate against persons or groups, nor against fields of endeavor. 6. The only requirements of the licensing terms flow through to and with any redistributed versions of REX, that is, the requirements for the copyright and citation notices to remain intact, and for modifications to be identified. 7. The license applies to the entire REX implementation. There are no subordinate parts or components as such. 8. The license does not restrict other software, and in fact REX can be distributed with other software. The xmlformat utility is itself an example of this use. Because the REX software, and thus xmlformat, clearly meet all the requirements of the open source definition, we should be able to use it in our toolchain without incurring any difficulty. (REX probably also meets the definition of "free software," although it is not copylefted and thus does not share the same distinction as GPL software.) I'll prepare an RPM of this package and see about getting it into Fedora Extras. In the meantime, we can keep testing and evaluating other methods of XML normalization. So far, xmlformat does the best job that I've seen, but I'm sure there must be other tools out there. Does anyone know whether Expat could easily do what we are trying to accomplish, or am I talking apples to oranges? = = = = = [1] http://fedora.redhat.com/projects/docs/ [2] http://fedora.redhat.com/about/ [3] http://opensource.org/docs/definition.php [4] http://www.kitebird.com/software/xmlformat/ [5] http://www.cs.sfu.ca/~cameron/REX.html#AppA -- Paul W. Frields, RHCE http://paul.frields.org/ gpg fingerprint: 3DA6 A0AC 6D58 FEC4 0233 5906 ACDB C937 BD11 3717 Fedora Documentation Project: http://fedora.redhat.com/projects/docs/ -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: signature.asc Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 189 bytes Desc: This is a digitally signed message part URL: From stickster at gmail.com Mon Jun 13 14:55:51 2005 From: stickster at gmail.com (Paul W. Frields) Date: Mon, 13 Jun 2005 10:55:51 -0400 Subject: xmlformat licensing In-Reply-To: <1118671856.4564.78.camel@localhost.localdomain> References: <1118671856.4564.78.camel@localhost.localdomain> Message-ID: <1118674551.4564.87.camel@localhost.localdomain> Excuse the reply to myself, just wanted to clarify something: On Mon, 2005-06-13 at 10:10 -0400, Paul W. Frields wrote: > Because the REX software, and thus xmlformat, clearly meet all the > requirements of the open source definition, we should be able to use it > in our toolchain without incurring any difficulty. (REX probably also > meets the definition of "free software," although it is not copylefted > and thus does not share the same distinction as GPL software.) I'll > prepare an RPM of this package and see about getting it into Fedora > Extras. In the meantime, we can keep testing and evaluating other > methods of XML normalization. So far, xmlformat does the best job that > I've seen, but I'm sure there must be other tools out there. An RPM is probably overkill for this tool. It's "just" (!) a Perl script, so it would just as easily sit in the docs-common/scripts/ folder, along with a configuration file setting FDP standards for normalization. Alternately, someone with more Perl-fu could check the script for security and then try for FE. I think that doing so means the maintainer is making some representations about security which I'm not qualified to do... so you could call this the "prudent wimp-out" factor. :-) -- Paul W. Frields, RHCE http://paul.frields.org/ gpg fingerprint: 3DA6 A0AC 6D58 FEC4 0233 5906 ACDB C937 BD11 3717 Fedora Documentation Project: http://fedora.redhat.com/projects/docs/ -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: signature.asc Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 189 bytes Desc: This is a digitally signed message part URL: From ivazquez at ivazquez.net Mon Jun 13 15:56:41 2005 From: ivazquez at ivazquez.net (Ignacio Vazquez-Abrams) Date: Mon, 13 Jun 2005 11:56:41 -0400 Subject: xmlformat licensing In-Reply-To: <1118671856.4564.78.camel@localhost.localdomain> References: <1118671856.4564.78.camel@localhost.localdomain> Message-ID: <1118678202.4983.5.camel@ignacio.ignacio.lan> On Mon, 2005-06-13 at 10:10 -0400, Paul W. Frields wrote: > Here are the facts of licensing pertaining to xmlformat: > > (A) The original portions of xmlformat by Paul DuBois, paul at kitebird > com, are licensed under a BSD-style license.[4] The BSD-style license > is an open source license. The only portion of xmlformat not covered by > this license is the implementation of the REX shallow parser. > > (B) The REX shallow parser, which is copyrighted by Robert D. Cameron, > cameron at sfu ca, is licensed under terms shown below in their > entirety: BSD and MIT are both FOSS licenses. -- Ignacio Vazquez-Abrams http://fedora.ivazquez.net/ gpg --keyserver hkp://subkeys.pgp.net --recv-key 38028b72 -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: signature.asc Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 189 bytes Desc: This is a digitally signed message part URL: From stickster at gmail.com Mon Jun 13 16:49:17 2005 From: stickster at gmail.com (Paul W. Frields) Date: Mon, 13 Jun 2005 12:49:17 -0400 Subject: xmlformat licensing In-Reply-To: <1118678202.4983.5.camel@ignacio.ignacio.lan> References: <1118671856.4564.78.camel@localhost.localdomain> <1118678202.4983.5.camel@ignacio.ignacio.lan> Message-ID: <1118681357.4564.89.camel@localhost.localdomain> On Mon, 2005-06-13 at 11:56 -0400, Ignacio Vazquez-Abrams wrote: > On Mon, 2005-06-13 at 10:10 -0400, Paul W. Frields wrote: > > Here are the facts of licensing pertaining to xmlformat: > > > > (A) The original portions of xmlformat by Paul DuBois, paul at kitebird > > com, are licensed under a BSD-style license.[4] The BSD-style license > > is an open source license. The only portion of xmlformat not covered by > > this license is the implementation of the REX shallow parser. > > > > (B) The REX shallow parser, which is copyrighted by Robert D. Cameron, > > cameron at sfu ca, is licensed under terms shown below in their > > entirety: > > BSD and MIT are both FOSS licenses. If only the REX author had used one of those! :-) -- Paul W. Frields, RHCE http://paul.frields.org/ gpg fingerprint: 3DA6 A0AC 6D58 FEC4 0233 5906 ACDB C937 BD11 3717 Fedora Documentation Project: http://fedora.redhat.com/projects/docs/ -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: signature.asc Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 189 bytes Desc: This is a digitally signed message part URL: From ivazquez at ivazquez.net Mon Jun 13 17:00:26 2005 From: ivazquez at ivazquez.net (Ignacio Vazquez-Abrams) Date: Mon, 13 Jun 2005 13:00:26 -0400 Subject: xmlformat licensing In-Reply-To: <1118681357.4564.89.camel@localhost.localdomain> References: <1118671856.4564.78.camel@localhost.localdomain> <1118678202.4983.5.camel@ignacio.ignacio.lan> <1118681357.4564.89.camel@localhost.localdomain> Message-ID: <1118682026.4983.6.camel@ignacio.ignacio.lan> On Mon, 2005-06-13 at 12:49 -0400, Paul W. Frields wrote: > On Mon, 2005-06-13 at 11:56 -0400, Ignacio Vazquez-Abrams wrote: > > On Mon, 2005-06-13 at 10:10 -0400, Paul W. Frields wrote: > > > Here are the facts of licensing pertaining to xmlformat: > > > > > > (A) The original portions of xmlformat by Paul DuBois, paul at kitebird > > > com, are licensed under a BSD-style license.[4] The BSD-style license > > > is an open source license. The only portion of xmlformat not covered by > > > this license is the implementation of the REX shallow parser. > > > > > > (B) The REX shallow parser, which is copyrighted by Robert D. Cameron, > > > cameron at sfu ca, is licensed under terms shown below in their > > > entirety: > > > > BSD and MIT are both FOSS licenses. > > If only the REX author had used one of those! :-) How many clauses did you omit in your original description of the REX license? -- Ignacio Vazquez-Abrams http://fedora.ivazquez.net/ gpg --keyserver hkp://subkeys.pgp.net --recv-key 38028b72 -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: signature.asc Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 189 bytes Desc: This is a digitally signed message part URL: From stickster at gmail.com Mon Jun 13 17:08:12 2005 From: stickster at gmail.com (Paul W. Frields) Date: Mon, 13 Jun 2005 13:08:12 -0400 Subject: xmlformat licensing In-Reply-To: <1118682026.4983.6.camel@ignacio.ignacio.lan> References: <1118671856.4564.78.camel@localhost.localdomain> <1118678202.4983.5.camel@ignacio.ignacio.lan> <1118681357.4564.89.camel@localhost.localdomain> <1118682026.4983.6.camel@ignacio.ignacio.lan> Message-ID: <1118682492.4564.92.camel@localhost.localdomain> On Mon, 2005-06-13 at 13:00 -0400, Ignacio Vazquez-Abrams wrote: > On Mon, 2005-06-13 at 12:49 -0400, Paul W. Frields wrote: > > On Mon, 2005-06-13 at 11:56 -0400, Ignacio Vazquez-Abrams wrote: > > > On Mon, 2005-06-13 at 10:10 -0400, Paul W. Frields wrote: > > > > Here are the facts of licensing pertaining to xmlformat: > > > > > > > > (A) The original portions of xmlformat by Paul DuBois, paul at kitebird > > > > com, are licensed under a BSD-style license.[4] The BSD-style license > > > > is an open source license. The only portion of xmlformat not covered by > > > > this license is the implementation of the REX shallow parser. > > > > > > > > (B) The REX shallow parser, which is copyrighted by Robert D. Cameron, > > > > cameron at sfu ca, is licensed under terms shown below in their > > > > entirety: > > > > > > BSD and MIT are both FOSS licenses. > > > > If only the REX author had used one of those! :-) > > How many clauses did you omit in your original description of the REX > license? None. The licensing text is reproduced *in its entirety*, as I stated in my message. The license is attached to the implementations of REX written by the author of the paper from which they are drawn. -- Paul W. Frields, RHCE http://paul.frields.org/ gpg fingerprint: 3DA6 A0AC 6D58 FEC4 0233 5906 ACDB C937 BD11 3717 Fedora Documentation Project: http://fedora.redhat.com/projects/docs/ -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: signature.asc Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 189 bytes Desc: This is a digitally signed message part URL: From ivazquez at ivazquez.net Mon Jun 13 17:41:44 2005 From: ivazquez at ivazquez.net (Ignacio Vazquez-Abrams) Date: Mon, 13 Jun 2005 13:41:44 -0400 Subject: xmlformat licensing In-Reply-To: <1118682492.4564.92.camel@localhost.localdomain> References: <1118671856.4564.78.camel@localhost.localdomain> <1118678202.4983.5.camel@ignacio.ignacio.lan> <1118681357.4564.89.camel@localhost.localdomain> <1118682026.4983.6.camel@ignacio.ignacio.lan> <1118682492.4564.92.camel@localhost.localdomain> Message-ID: <1118684504.4983.9.camel@ignacio.ignacio.lan> On Mon, 2005-06-13 at 13:08 -0400, Paul W. Frields wrote: > On Mon, 2005-06-13 at 13:00 -0400, Ignacio Vazquez-Abrams wrote: > > On Mon, 2005-06-13 at 12:49 -0400, Paul W. Frields wrote: > > > On Mon, 2005-06-13 at 11:56 -0400, Ignacio Vazquez-Abrams wrote: > > > > On Mon, 2005-06-13 at 10:10 -0400, Paul W. Frields wrote: > > > > > Here are the facts of licensing pertaining to xmlformat: > > > > > > > > > > (A) The original portions of xmlformat by Paul DuBois, paul at kitebird > > > > > com, are licensed under a BSD-style license.[4] The BSD-style license > > > > > is an open source license. The only portion of xmlformat not covered by > > > > > this license is the implementation of the REX shallow parser. > > > > > > > > > > (B) The REX shallow parser, which is copyrighted by Robert D. Cameron, > > > > > cameron at sfu ca, is licensed under terms shown below in their > > > > > entirety: > > > > > > > > BSD and MIT are both FOSS licenses. > > > > > > If only the REX author had used one of those! :-) > > > > How many clauses did you omit in your original description of the REX > > license? > > None. The licensing text is reproduced *in its entirety*, as I stated > in my message. The license is attached to the implementations of REX > written by the author of the paper from which they are drawn. Those clauses describe the MIT licence. http://www.opensource.org/licenses/mit-license.php -- Ignacio Vazquez-Abrams http://fedora.ivazquez.net/ gpg --keyserver hkp://subkeys.pgp.net --recv-key 38028b72 -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: signature.asc Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 189 bytes Desc: This is a digitally signed message part URL: From stickster at gmail.com Mon Jun 13 18:34:25 2005 From: stickster at gmail.com (Paul W. Frields) Date: Mon, 13 Jun 2005 14:34:25 -0400 Subject: xmlformat licensing In-Reply-To: <1118684504.4983.9.camel@ignacio.ignacio.lan> References: <1118671856.4564.78.camel@localhost.localdomain> <1118678202.4983.5.camel@ignacio.ignacio.lan> <1118681357.4564.89.camel@localhost.localdomain> <1118682026.4983.6.camel@ignacio.ignacio.lan> <1118682492.4564.92.camel@localhost.localdomain> <1118684504.4983.9.camel@ignacio.ignacio.lan> Message-ID: <1118687665.4564.96.camel@localhost.localdomain> On Mon, 2005-06-13 at 13:41 -0400, Ignacio Vazquez-Abrams wrote: > On Mon, 2005-06-13 at 13:08 -0400, Paul W. Frields wrote: > > On Mon, 2005-06-13 at 13:00 -0400, Ignacio Vazquez-Abrams wrote: > > > On Mon, 2005-06-13 at 12:49 -0400, Paul W. Frields wrote: > > > > On Mon, 2005-06-13 at 11:56 -0400, Ignacio Vazquez-Abrams wrote: > > > > > On Mon, 2005-06-13 at 10:10 -0400, Paul W. Frields wrote: > > > > > > Here are the facts of licensing pertaining to xmlformat: > > > > > > > > > > > > (A) The original portions of xmlformat by Paul DuBois, paul at kitebird > > > > > > com, are licensed under a BSD-style license.[4] The BSD-style license > > > > > > is an open source license. The only portion of xmlformat not covered by > > > > > > this license is the implementation of the REX shallow parser. > > > > > > > > > > > > (B) The REX shallow parser, which is copyrighted by Robert D. Cameron, > > > > > > cameron at sfu ca, is licensed under terms shown below in their > > > > > > entirety: > > > > > > > > > > BSD and MIT are both FOSS licenses. > > > > > > > > If only the REX author had used one of those! :-) > > > > > > How many clauses did you omit in your original description of the REX > > > license? > > > > None. The licensing text is reproduced *in its entirety*, as I stated > > in my message. The license is attached to the implementations of REX > > written by the author of the paper from which they are drawn. > > Those clauses describe the MIT licence. > > http://www.opensource.org/licenses/mit-license.php Yes, only the license does not include the disclaimer of warranty, and it specifically requires attribution of modification, which the MIT License does not require. The MIT License only requires that the copyright and license information must also accompany any modified versions. Therefore, it's not an MIT License. -- Paul W. Frields, RHCE http://paul.frields.org/ gpg fingerprint: 3DA6 A0AC 6D58 FEC4 0233 5906 ACDB C937 BD11 3717 Fedora Documentation Project: http://fedora.redhat.com/projects/docs/ -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: signature.asc Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 189 bytes Desc: This is a digitally signed message part URL: From max_list at fedorafaq.org Tue Jun 14 07:57:17 2005 From: max_list at fedorafaq.org (Max Kanat-Alexander) Date: Tue, 14 Jun 2005 00:57:17 -0700 Subject: HCL Considered Harmful [Re: Fedora HCL guide writers?] In-Reply-To: <20050605115511.2b5af794.Tommy.Reynolds@MegaCoder.com> References: <20050605115511.2b5af794.Tommy.Reynolds@MegaCoder.com> Message-ID: <1118735837.8361.17.camel@localhost.localdomain> I still actually think that the solution to the HCL problem is the "Fedora Hardware Project" that I proposed eons and eons ago, but I never actually got around to working on. I think the original spec is still up at my (now very old) site: http://people.ucsc.edu/~maxka/fhp/ Basically, it makes an sort of "unofficial" HCL through participation of the Fedora community. I think it's a very Fedora-like solution. -Max -- http://www.everythingsolved.com/ Fedora is definitely part of the "everything" in Everything Solved. From Tommy.Reynolds at MegaCoder.com Tue Jun 14 13:49:55 2005 From: Tommy.Reynolds at MegaCoder.com (Tommy Reynolds) Date: Tue, 14 Jun 2005 08:49:55 -0500 Subject: HCL Considered Harmful [Re: Fedora HCL guide writers?] In-Reply-To: <1118735837.8361.17.camel@localhost.localdomain> References: <20050605115511.2b5af794.Tommy.Reynolds@MegaCoder.com> <1118735837.8361.17.camel@localhost.localdomain> Message-ID: <20050614084955.6d90370c.Tommy.Reynolds@MegaCoder.com> Uttered Max Kanat-Alexander , spake thus: > I still actually think that the solution to the HCL problem is the > "Fedora Hardware Project" that I proposed eons and eons ago, but I never > actually got around to working on. I think the original spec is still up > at my (now very old) site: > http://people.ucsc.edu/~maxka/fhp/ > Basically, it makes an sort of "unofficial" HCL through participation > of the Fedora community. I think it's a very Fedora-like solution. I think a Wiki-like page somewhere that lets contributors record their experiences with particular hardware would be helpful. I agree with you, this is best handled as a non-official project. Cheers -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 189 bytes Desc: not available URL: From kwade at redhat.com Tue Jun 14 20:37:35 2005 From: kwade at redhat.com (Karsten Wade) Date: Tue, 14 Jun 2005 13:37:35 -0700 Subject: utf-8 encoding when building Message-ID: <1118781455.15227.30.camel@erato.phig.org> This is a status update about some encoding issues we have had building and serving Fedora Core documents. This came to a head recently because the release notes I built were utf-8 encoded but fedora.redhat.com was not specifying that in the tag, so the pages were being served as ISO-8859-1 (Apache default, iirc) and had funny characters. Today we adjusted the page templates to use UTF-8, which removes all the ugly characters for those docs, and introduces a few character problems in docs built using other character sets. Examples of the latter are the Stateless Linux Tutorial and the Apache SELinux doc. The problem there is not as visually acute, and I can rebuild them with a UTF-8 envar and see if that fixes stuff. I'm not sure what we are going to do about all this, but my feeling is that we should *start* from wherever the Fedora Core default is. If that is UTF-8, that's what we should be using as a baseline. - Karsten -- Karsten Wade, RHCE * Sr. Tech Writer * http://people.redhat.com/kwade/ gpg fingerprint: 2680 DBFD D968 3141 0115 5F1B D992 0E06 AD0E 0C41 Red Hat SELinux Guide http://www.redhat.com/docs/manuals/enterprise/RHEL-4-Manual/selinux-guide/ -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: signature.asc Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 189 bytes Desc: This is a digitally signed message part URL: From dmalcolm at redhat.com Tue Jun 14 20:43:14 2005 From: dmalcolm at redhat.com (David Malcolm) Date: Tue, 14 Jun 2005 16:43:14 -0400 Subject: utf-8 encoding when building In-Reply-To: <1118781455.15227.30.camel@erato.phig.org> References: <1118781455.15227.30.camel@erato.phig.org> Message-ID: <1118781795.16629.2.camel@cassandra.boston.redhat.com> On Tue, 2005-06-14 at 13:37 -0700, Karsten Wade wrote: > This is a status update about some encoding issues we have had building > and serving Fedora Core documents. > > This came to a head recently because the release notes I built were > utf-8 encoded but fedora.redhat.com was not specifying that in the > tag, so the pages were being served as ISO-8859-1 (Apache > default, iirc) and had funny characters. > > Today we adjusted the page templates to use UTF-8, which removes all the > ugly characters for those docs, and introduces a few character problems > in docs built using other character sets. > > Examples of the latter are the Stateless Linux Tutorial and the Apache > SELinux doc. The problem there is not as visually acute, and I can > rebuild them with a UTF-8 envar and see if that fixes stuff. What are the problems with the Stateless Linux tutorial? I can't think of anywhere that I used anything beyond the boring ASCII 7-bit range there. > > I'm not sure what we are going to do about all this, but my feeling is > that we should *start* from wherever the Fedora Core default is. If > that is UTF-8, that's what we should be using as a baseline. > > - Karsten > -- > fedora-docs-list mailing list > fedora-docs-list at redhat.com > To unsubscribe: > http://www.redhat.com/mailman/listinfo/fedora-docs-list From kwade at redhat.com Tue Jun 14 21:24:12 2005 From: kwade at redhat.com (Karsten Wade) Date: Tue, 14 Jun 2005 14:24:12 -0700 Subject: FDSCo minutes for 14 June 2005 Message-ID: <1118784252.15227.35.camel@erato.phig.org> I decided to just send these here, as being more of specific interest to us and not general interest to f-announce-l. Fedora Documentation Steering Committee (FDSCo) 14 June 2005 20:00 UTC every Tuesday #fedora-docs on irc.freenode.net Attendees: ========== Tommy Reynolds Stuart Elliss Gavin Henry Karsten Wade (gavel) Updates: ======== Stuart - X > Gstreamer is not ready for a student bounty, vnc2swf requires new packaging work, probably not the bounty for us to use. Still looking for new ideas. New Actions: ============ Karsten - Note on wiki about symlinking inside a module to the docs-common - for DOCG ideas page Karsten - Define common staging environment, run by list. Karsten - Decommission the Package List doc. Tommy - Work with Elliot to get stuff moved in CVS, updates to example-tutorial, announcement to f-docs-l Paul - evaluation of xmlformat in progress ## 30 ## -- Karsten Wade, RHCE * Sr. Tech Writer * http://people.redhat.com/kwade/ gpg fingerprint: 2680 DBFD D968 3141 0115 5F1B D992 0E06 AD0E 0C41 Red Hat SELinux Guide http://www.redhat.com/docs/manuals/enterprise/RHEL-4-Manual/selinux-guide/ -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: signature.asc Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 189 bytes Desc: This is a digitally signed message part URL: From Tommy.Reynolds at MegaCoder.com Tue Jun 14 21:34:53 2005 From: Tommy.Reynolds at MegaCoder.com (Tommy Reynolds) Date: Tue, 14 Jun 2005 16:34:53 -0500 Subject: [ANN] Creation of the "docs-common" subdirectory tree Message-ID: <20050614163453.2d624fa8.Tommy.Reynolds@MegaCoder.com> Ahoy, Doc'ers! Earlier on this list, Paul Frields began a discussion about moving all the overhead directories ("common", "css", "stylesheet-images", and "xsl") into a single object. That way, the root directory of everyone's working tree would not be cluttered with boilerplate cruft. The ensuing discussion has led to the creation of the "docs-common" top-level directory. This now holds the four older directories mentioned above. The old "doc-setup" object is no more. The "docs-common" is intended to be a peer directory for the individual document directories. To check out a document for local editing or building, two steps are needed: $ cvs checkout docs-common $ cvs checkout the-doc-I-want Note that checking out "docs-common" is a one-time operation; all documents will share that one instance. At least two changes need be made to each document's "Makefile": 1) Change the relative paths for the "XSLPDF" and "XSLHTML" macros from "../xsl" to "../docs-common/xsl". 2) Change the relative path of the "cp ../stylesheet-images" line to "cp ../docs-common/stylesheet-images" Then, in the parent file of each document, change the relative paths of the "FEDORA-ENTITIES-EN" entity from "../common" to "../docs-common/common". Yeah, I know, it looks redundant, doesn't it? Also change the relative path of the "LEGALNOTICE" entity from "../common" to "../docs-common/common". With these changes, you document should build. Now, go back to your top-level directory, the one that now holds "docs-common" and *stale* copies of "common", "css", "stylesheet-images", and "xsl" directories. Take a deep breath and type: $ rm -rf README common css stylesheet-images xsl to get rid of the files that are now part of "docs-common". If you have any questions about this process, look at the "example-tutorial/" document: it has the necesssary changes. Cheers -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 189 bytes Desc: not available URL: From twaugh at redhat.com Tue Jun 14 22:04:07 2005 From: twaugh at redhat.com (Tim Waugh) Date: Tue, 14 Jun 2005 23:04:07 +0100 Subject: FDSCo minutes for 14 June 2005 In-Reply-To: <1118784252.15227.35.camel@erato.phig.org> References: <1118784252.15227.35.camel@erato.phig.org> Message-ID: <20050614220407.GG8706@redhat.com> On Tue, Jun 14, 2005 at 02:24:12PM -0700, Karsten Wade wrote: > Stuart - X > Gstreamer is not ready for a student bounty, vnc2swf > requires new packaging work, probably not the bounty for us > to use. Still looking for new ideas. Can I ask what the interest in vnc2swf is? I ask only because there is an experimental version of my rfbproxy program which has support that a user contributed for exporting to PPM frames. This can in turn be encoded as Ogg Theora or whatever. Is that useful? Tim. */ -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 189 bytes Desc: not available URL: From stuart at elsn.org Tue Jun 14 23:16:32 2005 From: stuart at elsn.org (Stuart Ellis) Date: Wed, 15 Jun 2005 00:16:32 +0100 Subject: FDSCo minutes for 14 June 2005 In-Reply-To: <20050614220407.GG8706@redhat.com> References: <1118784252.15227.35.camel@erato.phig.org> <20050614220407.GG8706@redhat.com> Message-ID: <1118790992.11474.16.camel@humboldt.eln.lan> On Tue, 2005-06-14 at 23:04 +0100, Tim Waugh wrote: > On Tue, Jun 14, 2005 at 02:24:12PM -0700, Karsten Wade wrote: > > > Stuart - X > Gstreamer is not ready for a student bounty, vnc2swf > > requires new packaging work, probably not the bounty for us > > to use. Still looking for new ideas. > > Can I ask what the interest in vnc2swf is? I ask only because there > is an experimental version of my rfbproxy program which has support > that a user contributed for exporting to PPM frames. This can in turn > be encoded as Ogg Theora or whatever. Is that useful? I'd definitely be game to try it. I suggested window/screen capture as an area for a Fedora Google bounty, as it's something with a lot of potential for docs and other area. This was announced last week: http://live.gnome.org/Istanbul But speaking to the developer, it depends on gstreamer and X developments. -- Stuart Ellis stuart at elsn.org Fedora Documentation Project: http://fedora.redhat.com/projects/docs/ GPG key ID: 7098ABEA GPG key fingerprint: 68B0 E291 FB19 C845 E60E 9569 292E E365 7098 ABEA -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: signature.asc Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 189 bytes Desc: This is a digitally signed message part URL: From kwade at redhat.com Wed Jun 15 04:39:05 2005 From: kwade at redhat.com (Karsten Wade) Date: Tue, 14 Jun 2005 21:39:05 -0700 Subject: [Fwd: Re: utf-8 encoding when building] Message-ID: <1118810345.5926.3.camel@erato.phig.org> Meant to send this to the list. -------- Forwarded Message -------- From: Karsten Wade Reply-To: kwade at redhat.com To: David Malcolm Subject: Re: utf-8 encoding when building Date: Tue, 14 Jun 2005 14:43:33 -0700 On Tue, 2005-06-14 at 16:43 -0400, David Malcolm wrote: > What are the problems with the Stateless Linux tutorial? I can't think > of anywhere that I used anything beyond the boring ASCII 7-bit range > there. It could be just me, but when I look at a page, e.g.: http://fedora.redhat.com/docs/stateless/ a number spaces now have an unusual comma-like character, just before the Next and after Prev, following each of the section N. Here's what I see: http://people.redhat.com/kwade/fedora-docs/funky_commas.png -- Karsten Wade, RHCE * Sr. Tech Writer * http://people.redhat.com/kwade/ gpg fingerprint: 2680 DBFD D968 3141 0115 5F1B D992 0E06 AD0E 0C41 Red Hat SELinux Guide http://www.redhat.com/docs/manuals/enterprise/RHEL-4-Manual/selinux-guide/ -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: signature.asc Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 189 bytes Desc: This is a digitally signed message part URL: From sundaram at redhat.com Wed Jun 15 06:45:37 2005 From: sundaram at redhat.com (Rahul Sundaram) Date: Wed, 15 Jun 2005 12:15:37 +0530 Subject: FDSCo minutes for 14 June 2005 In-Reply-To: <1118790992.11474.16.camel@humboldt.eln.lan> References: <1118784252.15227.35.camel@erato.phig.org> <20050614220407.GG8706@redhat.com> <1118790992.11474.16.camel@humboldt.eln.lan> Message-ID: <42AFCE91.4010503@redhat.com> Hi >http://live.gnome.org/Istanbul > >But speaking to the developer, it depends on gstreamer and X >developments. > > It tried unsuccessfully to get it running in RHEL3. Probably requires the latest version of gstreamer and Xorg regards Rahul From sundaram at redhat.com Wed Jun 15 10:48:08 2005 From: sundaram at redhat.com (Rahul Sundaram) Date: Wed, 15 Jun 2005 16:18:08 +0530 Subject: FDSCo minutes for 14 June 2005 In-Reply-To: <1118790992.11474.16.camel@humboldt.eln.lan> References: <1118784252.15227.35.camel@erato.phig.org> <20050614220407.GG8706@redhat.com> <1118790992.11474.16.camel@humboldt.eln.lan> Message-ID: <42B00768.70506@redhat.com> Stuart Ellis wrote: >On Tue, 2005-06-14 at 23:04 +0100, Tim Waugh wrote: > > >>On Tue, Jun 14, 2005 at 02:24:12PM -0700, Karsten Wade wrote: >> >> >> >>>Stuart - X > Gstreamer is not ready for a student bounty, vnc2swf >>> requires new packaging work, probably not the bounty for us >>> to use. Still looking for new ideas. >>> >>> >>Can I ask what the interest in vnc2swf is? I ask only because there >>is an experimental version of my rfbproxy program which has support >>that a user contributed for exporting to PPM frames. This can in turn >>be encoded as Ogg Theora or whatever. Is that useful? >> >> http://www.burtonini.com/blog//computers/crack-or-not-2005-06-14-17-13 seems a nice solution regards Rahul From stuart at elsn.org Wed Jun 15 11:10:26 2005 From: stuart at elsn.org (Stuart Ellis) Date: Wed, 15 Jun 2005 12:10:26 +0100 Subject: FDSCo minutes for 14 June 2005 In-Reply-To: <42AFCE91.4010503@redhat.com> References: <1118784252.15227.35.camel@erato.phig.org> <20050614220407.GG8706@redhat.com> <1118790992.11474.16.camel@humboldt.eln.lan> <42AFCE91.4010503@redhat.com> Message-ID: <1118833826.29415.236412057@webmail.messagingengine.com> On Wed, 15 Jun 2005 12:15:37 +0530, "Rahul Sundaram" said: > Hi > > >http://live.gnome.org/Istanbul > > > >But speaking to the developer, it depends on gstreamer and X > >developments. > > > > > It tried unsuccessfully to get it running in RHEL3. Probably requires > the latest version of gstreamer and Xorg Yes. The software relies on Gstreamer to do the actual work, so features like window capture and Flash output require plug-in development work on Gstreamer, which I feel is too much of a moving target for a student to bring to satisfactory conclusion in the timescale that Google allow. If Tim has something more self-contained we could perhaps make use of it ourselves now, even if a more integrated solution will become available later. Thanks for the link to that discussion - I spotted it myself last night and put my two cents worth in. -- Stuart Ellis stuart at elsn.org Fedora Documentation Project: http://fedora.redhat.com/projects/docs/ GPG key ID: 7098ABEA GPG key fingerprint: 68B0 E291 FB19 C845 E60E 9569 292E E365 7098 ABEA From twaugh at redhat.com Wed Jun 15 12:28:20 2005 From: twaugh at redhat.com (Tim Waugh) Date: Wed, 15 Jun 2005 13:28:20 +0100 Subject: FDSCo minutes for 14 June 2005 In-Reply-To: <1118833826.29415.236412057@webmail.messagingengine.com> References: <1118784252.15227.35.camel@erato.phig.org> <20050614220407.GG8706@redhat.com> <1118790992.11474.16.camel@humboldt.eln.lan> <42AFCE91.4010503@redhat.com> <1118833826.29415.236412057@webmail.messagingengine.com> Message-ID: <20050615122820.GJ8706@redhat.com> On Wed, Jun 15, 2005 at 12:10:26PM +0100, Stuart Ellis wrote: > If Tim has something more self-contained we could perhaps make use > of it ourselves now, even if a more integrated solution will become > available later. Well, take a look: http://cyberelk.net/tim/data/rfbproxy/devel/ I'm afraid I haven't had time to actually test it out myself yet -- it was Brent Baccala who actually did the coding for it. Tim. */ -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 189 bytes Desc: not available URL: From sundaram at redhat.com Wed Jun 15 13:06:40 2005 From: sundaram at redhat.com (Rahul Sundaram) Date: Wed, 15 Jun 2005 18:36:40 +0530 Subject: Linux Hardware incompatibility list Message-ID: <42B027E0.1000006@redhat.com> Hi http://leenooks.com/1 This would a good link from the Fedora documentation pages regards Rahul From kwade at redhat.com Wed Jun 15 17:32:53 2005 From: kwade at redhat.com (Karsten Wade) Date: Wed, 15 Jun 2005 10:32:53 -0700 Subject: [ANN] Creation of the "docs-common" subdirectory tree In-Reply-To: <20050614163453.2d624fa8.Tommy.Reynolds@MegaCoder.com> References: <20050614163453.2d624fa8.Tommy.Reynolds@MegaCoder.com> Message-ID: <1118856774.5926.5.camel@erato.phig.org> On Tue, 2005-06-14 at 16:34 -0500, Tommy Reynolds wrote: > Ahoy, Doc'ers! > > Earlier on this list, Paul Frields began a discussion about moving > all the overhead directories ("common", "css", "stylesheet-images", > and "xsl") into a single object. That way, the root directory of > everyone's working tree would not be cluttered with boilerplate > cruft. > > The ensuing discussion has led to the creation of the "docs-common" > top-level directory. This now holds the four older directories > mentioned above. The old "doc-setup" object is no more. I've updated the anonymous CVS checkout instructions on f.r.c/projects/docs to reflect this. Changes should be live within the hour. - Karsten > > The "docs-common" is intended to be a peer directory for the > individual document directories. To check out a document for local > editing or building, two steps are needed: > > $ cvs checkout docs-common > $ cvs checkout the-doc-I-want > > Note that checking out "docs-common" is a one-time operation; all > documents will share that one instance. > > At least two changes need be made to each document's "Makefile": > > 1) Change the relative paths for the "XSLPDF" and "XSLHTML" macros > from "../xsl" to "../docs-common/xsl". > > 2) Change the relative path of the "cp ../stylesheet-images" line to > "cp ../docs-common/stylesheet-images" > > Then, in the parent file of each document, change the relative paths > of the "FEDORA-ENTITIES-EN" entity from "../common" to > "../docs-common/common". Yeah, I know, it looks redundant, doesn't > it? Also change the relative path of the "LEGALNOTICE" entity from > "../common" to "../docs-common/common". > > With these changes, you document should build. > > Now, go back to your top-level directory, the one that now holds > "docs-common" and *stale* copies of "common", "css", > "stylesheet-images", and "xsl" directories. Take a deep breath and > type: > > $ rm -rf README common css stylesheet-images xsl > > to get rid of the files that are now part of "docs-common". > > If you have any questions about this process, look at the > "example-tutorial/" document: it has the necesssary changes. > > Cheers > -- > fedora-docs-list mailing list > fedora-docs-list at redhat.com > To unsubscribe: > http://www.redhat.com/mailman/listinfo/fedora-docs-list -- Karsten Wade, RHCE * Sr. Tech Writer * http://people.redhat.com/kwade/ gpg fingerprint: 2680 DBFD D968 3141 0115 5F1B D992 0E06 AD0E 0C41 Red Hat SELinux Guide http://www.redhat.com/docs/manuals/enterprise/RHEL-4-Manual/selinux-guide/ -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: signature.asc Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 189 bytes Desc: This is a digitally signed message part URL: From Tommy.Reynolds at MegaCoder.com Wed Jun 15 21:26:30 2005 From: Tommy.Reynolds at MegaCoder.com (Tommy Reynolds) Date: Wed, 15 Jun 2005 16:26:30 -0500 Subject: [ANN] Creation of the "docs-common" subdirectory tree In-Reply-To: <1118856774.5926.5.camel@erato.phig.org> References: <20050614163453.2d624fa8.Tommy.Reynolds@MegaCoder.com> <1118856774.5926.5.camel@erato.phig.org> Message-ID: <20050615162630.3fde76ac.Tommy.Reynolds@MegaCoder.com> Uttered Karsten Wade , spake thus: > I've updated the anonymous CVS checkout instructions on > f.r.c/projects/docs to reflect this. Changes should be live within the > hour. Typo alert: "docs-module" should be "docs-common" Cheers -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 189 bytes Desc: not available URL: From yuan.bbbush at gmail.com Thu Jun 16 00:11:19 2005 From: yuan.bbbush at gmail.com (Yuan Yijun) Date: Thu, 16 Jun 2005 08:11:19 +0800 Subject: [ANN] Creation of the "docs-common" subdirectory tree In-Reply-To: <20050614163453.2d624fa8.Tommy.Reynolds@MegaCoder.com> References: <20050614163453.2d624fa8.Tommy.Reynolds@MegaCoder.com> Message-ID: <9792751e050615171114139678@mail.gmail.com> 2005/6/15, Tommy Reynolds : > The "docs-common" is intended to be a peer directory for the > individual document directories. To check out a document for local > editing or building, two steps are needed: When would there be a Makefile.common for common inclusion? And it should include some common tasks like extract-messages-for-translation and generate-html-with-the-same-steps. -- bbbush ^_^ From seekpragati at yahoo.co.in Thu Jun 16 05:34:55 2005 From: seekpragati at yahoo.co.in (Pragati Sinha) Date: Thu, 16 Jun 2005 06:34:55 +0100 (BST) Subject: update Mysql-3.23 to 4.1 Message-ID: <20050616053455.23747.qmail@web8505.mail.in.yahoo.com> hi, i have installed SNORT on my FC3 machine alongwith nessus .I am now getting this Security warning that i should upgrade Mysql from older version 3.23 that i have at present, to 4.1 i downloaded its rpm n followed these steps,but got this error.cant find a solution how to upgrade this. # rpm -Uvh MySQL-server-4.1.12-1.i386.rpm warning: MySQL-server-4.1.12-1.i386.rpm: V3 DSA signature: NOKEY, key ID 5072e1f5 error: Failed dependencies: libmysqlclient.so.10 is needed by (installed) perl-DBD-MySQL-2.9003-5.i386 libmysqlclient.so.10 is needed by (installed) mod_auth_mysql-20030510-5.i386 libmysqlclient.so.10 is needed by (installed) php-mysql-4.3.11-2.5.i386 libmysqlclient.so.10 is needed by (installed) MyODBC-2.50.39-19.1.i386 can someone plese help me with this... thanks, Pragati _______________________________________________________ Too much spam in your inbox? Yahoo! Mail gives you the best spam protection for FREE! http://in.mail.yahoo.com From ivazquez at ivazquez.net Thu Jun 16 06:40:52 2005 From: ivazquez at ivazquez.net (Ignacio Vazquez-Abrams) Date: Thu, 16 Jun 2005 02:40:52 -0400 Subject: update Mysql-3.23 to 4.1 In-Reply-To: <20050616053455.23747.qmail@web8505.mail.in.yahoo.com> References: <20050616053455.23747.qmail@web8505.mail.in.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <1118904052.31315.17.camel@ignacio.ignacio.lan> On Thu, 2005-06-16 at 06:34 +0100, Pragati Sinha wrote: > hi, > i have installed SNORT on my FC3 machine alongwith > nessus .I am now getting this Security warning that i > should upgrade Mysql from older version 3.23 that i > have at present, to 4.1 > i downloaded its rpm n followed these steps,but got > this error.cant find a solution how to upgrade this. Just grab the mysql* packages from my alternatives repo (see sig) and install them. Don't forget the mysqlclient10 package. -- Ignacio Vazquez-Abrams http://fedora.ivazquez.net/ gpg --keyserver hkp://subkeys.pgp.net --recv-key 38028b72 -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: signature.asc Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 189 bytes Desc: This is a digitally signed message part URL: From seekpragati at yahoo.co.in Thu Jun 16 11:09:38 2005 From: seekpragati at yahoo.co.in (Pragati Sinha) Date: Thu, 16 Jun 2005 12:09:38 +0100 (BST) Subject: update Mysql-3.23 to 4.1 In-Reply-To: <1118904052.31315.17.camel@ignacio.ignacio.lan> Message-ID: <20050616110938.9675.qmail@web8510.mail.in.yahoo.com> hi, i have installed SNORT on my FC3 machine alongwith nessus.I am now getting this Security warning that i should upgrade Mysql from the older version 3.23 that i have at present, to mysql 4.0 or 4.1. i have downloaded its rpm n started installing them,but im getting failed dependencies error,for the packages that are already there. Quote: # rpm -Uvh mysql-4.1.10a-0.iva.0.i386.rpm warning: mysql-4.1.10a-0.iva.0.i386.rpm: V3 DSA signature: NOKEY, key ID 3fd680c5 error: Failed dependencies: libmysqlclient.so.10 is needed by (installed) perl-DBD-MySQL-2.9003-5.i386 libmysqlclient.so.10 is needed by (installed) mod_auth_mysql-20030510-5.i386 libmysqlclient.so.10 is needed by (installed) mysql-server-3.23.58-16.FC3.1.i386 libmysqlclient.so.10 is needed by (installed) php-mysql-4.3.11-2.5.i386 libmysqlclient.so.10 is needed by (installed) MyODBC-2.50.39-19.1.i386 mysql = 3.23.58 is needed by (installed) mysql-server-3.23.58-16.FC3.1.i386 mysql = 3.23.58 is needed by (installed) mysql-devel-3.23.58-16.FC3.1.i386 mysql = 3.23.58 is needed by (installed) mysql-bench-3.23.58-16.FC3.1.i386 Quote: [root at nessus /]# rpm -Uvh mysqlclient10-devel-3.23.58-4.iva.1.i386.rpm warning: mysqlclient10-devel-3.23.58-4.iva.1.i386.rpm: V3 DSA signature: NOKEY, key ID 3fd680c5 error: Failed dependencies: mysqlclient10 = 3.23.58-4.iva.1 is needed by mysqlclient10-devel-3.23.58-4.iva.1.i386 [root at nessus /]# rpm -Uvh mysqlclient10-3.23.58-4.iva.1.i386.rpm warning: mysqlclient10-3.23.58-4.iva.1.i386.rpm: V3 DSA signature: NOKEY, key ID 3fd680c5 error: Failed dependencies: mysql = 3.23.58 is needed by (installed) mysql-server-3.23.58-16.FC3.1.i386 mysql = 3.23.58 is needed by (installed) mysql-devel-3.23.58-16.FC3.1.i386 mysql = 3.23.58 is needed by (installed) mysql-bench-3.23.58-16.FC3.1.i386 Quote: [root at nessus /]# rpm -Uvh mysql-server-4.1.10a-0.iva.0.i386.rpm warning: mysql-server-4.1.10a-0.iva.0.i386.rpm: V3 DSA signature: NOKEY, key ID 3fd680c5 error: Failed dependencies: libmysqlclient.so.14 is needed by mysql-server-4.1.10a-0.iva.0.i386 libmysqlclient_r.so.14 is needed by mysql-server-4.1.10a-0.iva.0.i386 mysql = 4.1.10a-0.iva.0 is needed by mysql-server-4.1.10a-0.iva.0.i386 [root at nessus /]# rpm -Uvh mysql-devel-4.1.10a-0.iva.0.i386.rpm warning: mysql-devel-4.1.10a-0.iva.0.i386.rpm: V3 DSA signature: NOKEY, key ID 3fd680c5 error: Failed dependencies: mysql = 4.1.10a-0.iva.0 is needed by mysql-devel-4.1.10a-0.iva.0.i386 [root at nessus /]# rpm -Uvh mysql-bench-4.1.10a-0.iva.0.i386.rpm warning: mysql-bench-4.1.10a-0.iva.0.i386.rpm: V3 DSA signature: NOKEY, key ID 3fd680c5 error: Failed dependencies: mysql = 4.1.10a-0.iva.0 is needed by mysql-bench-4.1.10a-0.iva.0.i386 [root at nessus /]# rpm -Uvh mysql-4.1.10a-0.iva.0.i386.rpm warning: mysql-4.1.10a-0.iva.0.i386.rpm: V3 DSA signature: NOKEY, key ID 3fd680c5 error: Failed dependencies: libmysqlclient.so.10 is needed by (installed) perl-DBD-MySQL-2.9003-5.i386 libmysqlclient.so.10 is needed by (installed) mod_auth_mysql-20030510-5.i386 libmysqlclient.so.10 is needed by (installed) mysql-server-3.23.58-16.FC3.1.i386 libmysqlclient.so.10 is needed by (installed) php-mysql-4.3.11-2.5.i386 libmysqlclient.so.10 is needed by (installed) MyODBC-2.50.39-19.1.i386 mysql = 3.23.58 is needed by (installed) mysql-server-3.23.58-16.FC3.1.i386 mysql = 3.23.58 is needed by (installed) mysql-devel-3.23.58-16.FC3.1.i386 mysql = 3.23.58 is needed by (installed) mysql-bench-3.23.58-16.FC3.1.i386 how to upgrade the mysql on Fedora Core 3? now i am unable to install any rpm packages.can someone please help me out with these. Cheers... Pragati __________________________________________________________ Free antispam, antivirus and 1GB to save all your messages Only in Yahoo! Mail: http://in.mail.yahoo.com From kwade at redhat.com Thu Jun 16 13:41:07 2005 From: kwade at redhat.com (Karsten Wade) Date: Thu, 16 Jun 2005 06:41:07 -0700 Subject: update Mysql-3.23 to 4.1 In-Reply-To: <20050616053455.23747.qmail@web8505.mail.in.yahoo.com> References: <20050616053455.23747.qmail@web8505.mail.in.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <1118929268.5926.10.camel@erato.phig.org> Sorry, but you have found the incorrect mailing list. fedora- list at redhat.com is the proper list for questions such as this. thx - Karsten On Thu, 2005-06-16 at 06:34 +0100, Pragati Sinha wrote: > hi, > i have installed SNORT on my FC3 machine alongwith > nessus .I am now getting this Security warning that i > should upgrade Mysql from older version 3.23 that i > have at present, to 4.1 > i downloaded its rpm n followed these steps,but got > this error.cant find a solution how to upgrade this. > > # rpm -Uvh MySQL-server-4.1.12-1.i386.rpm > warning: MySQL-server-4.1.12-1.i386.rpm: V3 DSA > signature: NOKEY, key ID 5072e1f5 > error: Failed dependencies: > libmysqlclient.so.10 is needed by (installed) > perl-DBD-MySQL-2.9003-5.i386 > libmysqlclient.so.10 is needed by (installed) > mod_auth_mysql-20030510-5.i386 > libmysqlclient.so.10 is needed by (installed) > php-mysql-4.3.11-2.5.i386 > libmysqlclient.so.10 is needed by (installed) > MyODBC-2.50.39-19.1.i386 > > can someone plese help me with this... > > thanks, > Pragati > > > > _______________________________________________________ > Too much spam in your inbox? Yahoo! Mail gives you the best spam protection for FREE! http://in.mail.yahoo.com > -- Karsten Wade, RHCE * Sr. Tech Writer * http://people.redhat.com/kwade/ gpg fingerprint: 2680 DBFD D968 3141 0115 5F1B D992 0E06 AD0E 0C41 Red Hat SELinux Guide http://www.redhat.com/docs/manuals/enterprise/RHEL-4-Manual/selinux-guide/ -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: signature.asc Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 189 bytes Desc: This is a digitally signed message part URL: From kwade at redhat.com Thu Jun 16 14:50:39 2005 From: kwade at redhat.com (Karsten Wade) Date: Thu, 16 Jun 2005 07:50:39 -0700 Subject: toolchain - what's happening? Message-ID: <1118933439.5926.26.camel@erato.phig.org> Can I get some information/status on these items? These are some starts and stops we've made over the last few months, and I'm working on bringing them all together into an alpha toolchain. * Patching of xmlto to use Saxon Did Gavin and Tommy work on this? * Compiling of Saxon and fop using gcj Did Tommy get anywhere on this? I don't know if we can use a Java-based toolchain, but we won't know unless we make one and try it out. :) - Karsten -- Karsten Wade, RHCE * Sr. Tech Writer * http://people.redhat.com/kwade/ gpg fingerprint: 2680 DBFD D968 3141 0115 5F1B D992 0E06 AD0E 0C41 Red Hat SELinux Guide http://www.redhat.com/docs/manuals/enterprise/RHEL-4-Manual/selinux-guide/ -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: signature.asc Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 189 bytes Desc: This is a digitally signed message part URL: From Tommy.Reynolds at MegaCoder.com Thu Jun 16 15:56:27 2005 From: Tommy.Reynolds at MegaCoder.com (Tommy Reynolds) Date: Thu, 16 Jun 2005 10:56:27 -0500 Subject: toolchain - what's happening? In-Reply-To: <1118933439.5926.26.camel@erato.phig.org> References: <1118933439.5926.26.camel@erato.phig.org> Message-ID: <20050616105627.0e39e9d4.Tommy.Reynolds@MegaCoder.com> Uttered Karsten Wade , spake thus: > Can I get some information/status on these items? These are some starts > and stops we've made over the last few months, and I'm working on > bringing them all together into an alpha toolchain. > * Patching of xmlto to use Saxon > Did Gavin and Tommy work on this? I produced an updated xmlto that uses the FOP tool to do all the conversions except HTML which still uses xsltproc for that. I will look at converting it to saxon. > * Compiling of Saxon and fop using gcj > > Did Tommy get anywhere on this? I didn't get much success here, but I should try it again before offering a real answer, I'll let you know. Cheers -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 189 bytes Desc: not available URL: From twaugh at redhat.com Thu Jun 16 16:06:44 2005 From: twaugh at redhat.com (Tim Waugh) Date: Thu, 16 Jun 2005 17:06:44 +0100 Subject: Saxon? Message-ID: <20050616160644.GA2670@redhat.com> What's all this about changing xmlto to use Saxon instead of xsltproc? How will that fix PDF output? Tim. */ -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 189 bytes Desc: not available URL: From Tommy.Reynolds at MegaCoder.com Thu Jun 16 17:06:16 2005 From: Tommy.Reynolds at MegaCoder.com (Tommy Reynolds) Date: Thu, 16 Jun 2005 12:06:16 -0500 Subject: Saxon? In-Reply-To: <20050616160644.GA2670@redhat.com> References: <20050616160644.GA2670@redhat.com> Message-ID: <20050616120616.73b90eeb.Tommy.Reynolds@MegaCoder.com> Uttered Tim Waugh , spake thus: > What's all this about changing xmlto to use Saxon instead of xsltproc? > How will that fix PDF output? Won't fix it in itself, but were we to use FOP, which itself uses saxon, that would be one less dependancy to keep current. Cheers -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 189 bytes Desc: not available URL: From kwade at redhat.com Thu Jun 16 18:36:35 2005 From: kwade at redhat.com (Karsten Wade) Date: Thu, 16 Jun 2005 11:36:35 -0700 Subject: Saxon? In-Reply-To: <20050616160644.GA2670@redhat.com> References: <20050616160644.GA2670@redhat.com> Message-ID: <1118946995.5926.39.camel@erato.phig.org> On Thu, 2005-06-16 at 17:06 +0100, Tim Waugh wrote: > What's all this about changing xmlto to use Saxon instead of xsltproc? > How will that fix PDF output? The DocBook developers mainly use a Java toolchain of Saxon and FOP, aiui. By following the same or closely related toolchain, we benefit in many ways. It makes sense to keep our work within the bounds of the formal DocBook and XML specifications, for all the usual reasons. If the problem is that Saxon and FOP are not in Fedora Extras, we will get them packaged and maintained. - Karsten -- Karsten Wade, RHCE * Sr. Tech Writer * http://people.redhat.com/kwade/ gpg fingerprint: 2680 DBFD D968 3141 0115 5F1B D992 0E06 AD0E 0C41 Red Hat SELinux Guide http://www.redhat.com/docs/manuals/enterprise/RHEL-4-Manual/selinux-guide/ -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: signature.asc Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 189 bytes Desc: This is a digitally signed message part URL: From kwade at redhat.com Thu Jun 16 18:38:39 2005 From: kwade at redhat.com (Karsten Wade) Date: Thu, 16 Jun 2005 11:38:39 -0700 Subject: what to do about typoes in online docs? In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <1118947119.5926.42.camel@erato.phig.org> Note: bouncing this to f-docs-l for larger audience and comments. On Thu, 2005-06-16 at 13:21 -0400, Robert P. J. Day wrote: > is anyone interested in minor typoes in the online docs? and i mean > "minor" in the sense that, yes, they should be fixed but, no, i'm not > about to go thru bugzilla to report them. life's way too short for > that. Thanks for noticing and caring. :) Reporting of typos via email is more likely to get dropped or forgotten than if they are in a bug. Because of the amount of bugs, changes, and feature requests that can come in for a document, we use bugzilla as a tracking tool with some workflow processes. To alleviate the pain a bit, here are a few ideas: * Many docs use a prefilled bugzilla report. You click on the link, fill out two fields and submit. Much less pain. If a document does not have such a link, it should. * Gather a number of typos and include them in a single report, minimizing time spent in bugzilla. Use a prefilled template, where possible. * Get CVS access and fix them yourself. I think the point is this: if you find typos in a document, you are likely to group them together into one email already. You won't send a separate email for every typo, right? Once you've gone that far, it only takes a few extra, short steps to make a bug report. Because we can have bugzilla do dependency tracking, properly reported bugs cannot fall through the cracks. thx - Karsten -- Karsten Wade, RHCE * Sr. Tech Writer * http://people.redhat.com/kwade/ gpg fingerprint: 2680 DBFD D968 3141 0115 5F1B D992 0E06 AD0E 0C41 Red Hat SELinux Guide http://www.redhat.com/docs/manuals/enterprise/RHEL-4-Manual/selinux-guide/ -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: signature.asc Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 189 bytes Desc: This is a digitally signed message part URL: From dmalcolm at redhat.com Thu Jun 16 18:53:19 2005 From: dmalcolm at redhat.com (David Malcolm) Date: Thu, 16 Jun 2005 14:53:19 -0400 Subject: what to do about typoes in online docs? In-Reply-To: <1118947119.5926.42.camel@erato.phig.org> References: <1118947119.5926.42.camel@erato.phig.org> Message-ID: <1118947999.3179.102.camel@cassandra.boston.redhat.com> On Thu, 2005-06-16 at 11:38 -0700, Karsten Wade wrote: > Note: bouncing this to f-docs-l for larger audience and comments. > > On Thu, 2005-06-16 at 13:21 -0400, Robert P. J. Day wrote: > > is anyone interested in minor typoes in the online docs? and i mean > > "minor" in the sense that, yes, they should be fixed but, no, i'm not > > about to go thru bugzilla to report them. life's way too short for > > that. > > Thanks for noticing and caring. :) > > Reporting of typos via email is more likely to get dropped or forgotten > than if they are in a bug. Because of the amount of bugs, changes, and > feature requests that can come in for a document, we use bugzilla as a > tracking tool with some workflow processes. > > To alleviate the pain a bit, here are a few ideas: > > * Many docs use a prefilled bugzilla report. You click on the link, > fill out two fields and submit. Much less pain. If a document does not > have such a link, it should. Last November I proposed some standard boilerplate entities for this, and promptly forgot to implement them. Sorry. It's in bugzilla here https://bugzilla.redhat.com/bugzilla/show_bug.cgi?id=139931 If someone else could get this implemented, that would be great. > > * Gather a number of typos and include them in a single report, > minimizing time spent in bugzilla. Use a prefilled template, where > possible. > > * Get CVS access and fix them yourself. > > I think the point is this: if you find typos in a document, you are > likely to group them together into one email already. You won't send a > separate email for every typo, right? Once you've gone that far, it > only takes a few extra, short steps to make a bug report. > > Because we can have bugzilla do dependency tracking, properly reported > bugs cannot fall through the cracks. > > thx - Karsten > -- > fedora-docs-list mailing list > fedora-docs-list at redhat.com > To unsubscribe: > http://www.redhat.com/mailman/listinfo/fedora-docs-list From twaugh at redhat.com Thu Jun 16 20:18:57 2005 From: twaugh at redhat.com (Tim Waugh) Date: Thu, 16 Jun 2005 21:18:57 +0100 Subject: Saxon? In-Reply-To: <1118946995.5926.39.camel@erato.phig.org> References: <20050616160644.GA2670@redhat.com> <1118946995.5926.39.camel@erato.phig.org> Message-ID: <20050616201857.GB2670@redhat.com> On Thu, Jun 16, 2005 at 11:36:35AM -0700, Karsten Wade wrote: > If the problem is that Saxon and FOP are not in Fedora Extras, we will > get them packaged and maintained. Maybe we should be looking at xmlroff, which doesn't have a dependency on *yet another* XML parser. Tim. */ -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 189 bytes Desc: not available URL: From Tommy.Reynolds at MegaCoder.com Thu Jun 16 22:05:43 2005 From: Tommy.Reynolds at MegaCoder.com (Tommy Reynolds) Date: Thu, 16 Jun 2005 17:05:43 -0500 Subject: Saxon? In-Reply-To: <20050616201857.GB2670@redhat.com> References: <20050616160644.GA2670@redhat.com> <1118946995.5926.39.camel@erato.phig.org> <20050616201857.GB2670@redhat.com> Message-ID: <20050616170543.7ed8bc3e.Tommy.Reynolds@MegaCoder.com> Uttered Tim Waugh , spake thus: > Maybe we should be looking at xmlroff, which doesn't have a dependency > on *yet another* XML parser Xmlroff just doesn't work at all yet. Try converting the IG, for instance. At least these saxon/fop partially function. Cheers -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 189 bytes Desc: not available URL: From yuan.bbbush at gmail.com Thu Jun 16 23:50:23 2005 From: yuan.bbbush at gmail.com (Yuan Yijun) Date: Fri, 17 Jun 2005 07:50:23 +0800 Subject: zh_CN.po for IG done. Message-ID: <9792751e05061616503a770406@mail.gmail.com> Greetings, see fedora-gro cvs[1] for the po files, scripts and HTML output. Using xml2po. When can we have a uniform translation process? -- bbbush ^_^ [1] http://gro.clinux.org/scm/cvsweb.php/sites/com.redhat.fedora.cvs.docs/install-guide/src/?cvsroot=fedora From kwade at redhat.com Fri Jun 17 02:33:41 2005 From: kwade at redhat.com (Karsten Wade) Date: Thu, 16 Jun 2005 19:33:41 -0700 Subject: zh_CN.po for IG done. In-Reply-To: <9792751e05061616503a770406@mail.gmail.com> References: <9792751e05061616503a770406@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <1118975621.5926.65.camel@erato.phig.org> On Fri, 2005-06-17 at 07:50 +0800, Yuan Yijun wrote: > Greetings, > see fedora-gro cvs[1] for the po files, scripts and HTML output. Using xml2po. Great. I'm travelling on business right now and am behind on posting translated release notes. I will try to get to that later tonight or tomorrow afternoon, Eastern US time. > When can we have a uniform translation process? For release notes, FC5test1 _possibly_. Certainly for FC5. The release notes should have a few days frozen in CVS before test releases, that will give time to at least get started. At worst case, translated release notes for test releases come out a few days after the test is available. This is an advantage when it comes to the final release notes. By that time, >80% of the content will already be translated. We can try out a new process anytime with other documents to be translated. That is something to discuss, if there is interest. - Karsten -- Karsten Wade, RHCE * Sr. Tech Writer * http://people.redhat.com/kwade/ gpg fingerprint: 2680 DBFD D968 3141 0115 5F1B D992 0E06 AD0E 0C41 Red Hat SELinux Guide http://www.redhat.com/docs/manuals/enterprise/RHEL-4-Manual/selinux-guide/ -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: signature.asc Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 189 bytes Desc: This is a digitally signed message part URL: From kwade at redhat.com Fri Jun 17 02:39:09 2005 From: kwade at redhat.com (Karsten Wade) Date: Thu, 16 Jun 2005 19:39:09 -0700 Subject: what to do about typoes in online docs? In-Reply-To: <1118947999.3179.102.camel@cassandra.boston.redhat.com> References: <1118947119.5926.42.camel@erato.phig.org> <1118947999.3179.102.camel@cassandra.boston.redhat.com> Message-ID: <1118975949.5926.70.camel@erato.phig.org> On Thu, 2005-06-16 at 14:53 -0400, David Malcolm wrote: > Last November I proposed some standard boilerplate entities for this, > and promptly forgot to implement them. Sorry. > > It's in bugzilla here > https://bugzilla.redhat.com/bugzilla/show_bug.cgi?id=139931 I put this link under the Suggestions section on this wiki page: http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/DocsProject/DocumentationGuide This is where we are capturing all of the ideas and changes for the canonical Documentation Guide. Thanks for remembering! cheers - Karsten -- Karsten Wade, RHCE * Sr. Tech Writer * http://people.redhat.com/kwade/ gpg fingerprint: 2680 DBFD D968 3141 0115 5F1B D992 0E06 AD0E 0C41 Red Hat SELinux Guide http://www.redhat.com/docs/manuals/enterprise/RHEL-4-Manual/selinux-guide/ -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: signature.asc Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 189 bytes Desc: This is a digitally signed message part URL: From andrewm at inventa.ru Fri Jun 17 07:47:09 2005 From: andrewm at inventa.ru (Andrew Martynov) Date: Fri, 17 Jun 2005 11:47:09 +0400 Subject: Fwd: zh_CN.po for IG done. In-Reply-To: <9792751e0506161657505f5f23@mail.gmail.com> References: <9792751e05061616503a770406@mail.gmail.com> <9792751e0506161657505f5f23@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <42B27FFD.40502@inventa.ru> Hello, Sarah and Bernd! Could we add some new translation modules for FC documentation translation process. It is good idea to start with release-notes module as two (ru and zn_CN) translations already done. I think we can allow translators prepare initial translation while we are discussing scripting details with Karsten. 26612-93081-81235-84331 -- Best regards, Andrew Martynov Inventa Yuan Yijun wrote: >Greetings, >see fedora-gro cvs[1] for the po files, scripts and HTML output. Using xml2po. >When can we have a uniform translation process? > >BTW, the zh_CN.po for release-notes is here[2] and the updated scripts >are here[3]. >Thanks to A.M. and Fundawang @ Mandriva > >-- >bbbush ^_^ > >[1] http://gro.clinux.org/scm/cvsweb.php/sites/com.redhat.fedora.cvs.docs/install-guide/src/?cvsroot=fedora >[2] http://gro.clinux.org/scm/cvsweb.php/sites/com.redhat.fedora.cvs.docs/release-notes/FC4/src/?cvsroot=fedora >[3] http://gro.clinux.org/scm/cvsweb.php/sites/com.redhat.fedora.cvs.docs/jargon-buster/src/?cvsroot=fedora > >-- >Fedora-trans-list mailing list >Fedora-trans-list at redhat.com >http://www.redhat.com/mailman/listinfo/fedora-trans-list > > From twaugh at redhat.com Fri Jun 17 08:41:35 2005 From: twaugh at redhat.com (Tim Waugh) Date: Fri, 17 Jun 2005 09:41:35 +0100 Subject: Saxon? In-Reply-To: <20050616170543.7ed8bc3e.Tommy.Reynolds@MegaCoder.com> References: <20050616160644.GA2670@redhat.com> <1118946995.5926.39.camel@erato.phig.org> <20050616201857.GB2670@redhat.com> <20050616170543.7ed8bc3e.Tommy.Reynolds@MegaCoder.com> Message-ID: <20050617084135.GD2670@redhat.com> On Thu, Jun 16, 2005 at 05:05:43PM -0500, Tommy Reynolds wrote: > Uttered Tim Waugh , spake thus: > > > Maybe we should be looking at xmlroff, which doesn't have a dependency > > on *yet another* XML parser > > Xmlroff just doesn't work at all yet. Try converting the IG, for instance. > > At least these saxon/fop partially function. It's unfair to say it doesn't work at all, but it certainly isn't something that will work for everything right now, that's true. But I do really question the benefit of switching xmlto to using Saxon. We should be concentrating effort on the XSL-FO -> PDF step, not the XML -> XSL-FO step which already works perfectly well. Tim. */ -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 189 bytes Desc: not available URL: From twaugh at redhat.com Fri Jun 17 09:38:31 2005 From: twaugh at redhat.com (Tim Waugh) Date: Fri, 17 Jun 2005 10:38:31 +0100 Subject: Saxon? In-Reply-To: <20050616170543.7ed8bc3e.Tommy.Reynolds@MegaCoder.com> References: <20050616160644.GA2670@redhat.com> <1118946995.5926.39.camel@erato.phig.org> <20050616201857.GB2670@redhat.com> <20050616170543.7ed8bc3e.Tommy.Reynolds@MegaCoder.com> Message-ID: <20050617093831.GE2670@redhat.com> On Thu, Jun 16, 2005 at 05:05:43PM -0500, Tommy Reynolds wrote: > Uttered Tim Waugh , spake thus: > > > Maybe we should be looking at xmlroff, which doesn't have a dependency > > on *yet another* XML parser > > Xmlroff just doesn't work at all yet. Try converting the IG, for instance. FWIW, I took a look at this. There is a bug concerning bare indexterms at the beginning of para blocks, and working around that I ended up with some PDF output. The fo:external-graphic support is being re-written currently, and so there are no images. Also, there is incorrect significant white-space in a lot of places because of this sort of style: Blah blah blah... There are a few rendering glitches too, of course, but I am confident things would improve fairly rapidly if the Fedora Project would lend xmlroff some development support. I think it's at the point now where it is possible to pick an unimplemented property that you care about and implement it. The upstream maintainer is helpful when you have questions about the code. I've put the PDF I got here: http://cyberelk.net/tim/data/tmp/fedora-install-guide-en.pdf ..and now I'll go and file the bug that indexterms trigger. Tim. */ -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 189 bytes Desc: not available URL: From kwade at redhat.com Fri Jun 17 15:52:00 2005 From: kwade at redhat.com (Karsten Wade) Date: Fri, 17 Jun 2005 08:52:00 -0700 Subject: Saxon? In-Reply-To: <20050617084135.GD2670@redhat.com> References: <20050616160644.GA2670@redhat.com> <1118946995.5926.39.camel@erato.phig.org> <20050616201857.GB2670@redhat.com> <20050616170543.7ed8bc3e.Tommy.Reynolds@MegaCoder.com> <20050617084135.GD2670@redhat.com> Message-ID: <1119023520.5926.108.camel@erato.phig.org> On Fri, 2005-06-17 at 09:41 +0100, Tim Waugh wrote: > On Thu, Jun 16, 2005 at 05:05:43PM -0500, Tommy Reynolds wrote: > But I do really question the benefit of switching xmlto to using > Saxon. We should be concentrating effort on the XSL-FO -> PDF step, > not the XML -> XSL-FO step which already works perfectly well. Agreed in principle. However, see previous comments about keeping in step with the leaders of the DocBook community. For that reason alone, we behoove ourselves to consider Saxon. It's like using Emacs for DocBook -- it is not required, it is not essential, but it sure can make writing a -ton- easier. - Karsten -- Karsten Wade, RHCE * Sr. Tech Writer * http://people.redhat.com/kwade/ gpg fingerprint: 2680 DBFD D968 3141 0115 5F1B D992 0E06 AD0E 0C41 Red Hat SELinux Guide http://www.redhat.com/docs/manuals/enterprise/RHEL-4-Manual/selinux-guide/ -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: signature.asc Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 189 bytes Desc: This is a digitally signed message part URL: From stickster at gmail.com Sat Jun 18 14:57:23 2005 From: stickster at gmail.com (Paul W. Frields) Date: Sat, 18 Jun 2005 10:57:23 -0400 Subject: Bugzilla assistance Message-ID: <1119106643.15553.4.camel@localhost.localdomain> Karsten (or others), Is it possible that some of the folks here could get Bugzilla "clearance" to help resolve and reassign bugs in Bugzilla? There's a number of bugs starting to pile up that are either (1) bugs that should be filed against other components, (2) quick fixes that we could resolve after fixing in CVS, or (3) blank bugs saved either by accident or through user Lack O' Clue(tm). While it's possible that this initial surge may die down, would you like some help clearing out some of the chaff? Consider this an offer of same. -- Paul W. Frields, RHCE http://paul.frields.org/ gpg fingerprint: 3DA6 A0AC 6D58 FEC4 0233 5906 ACDB C937 BD11 3717 Fedora Documentation Project: http://fedora.redhat.com/projects/docs/ -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: signature.asc Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 189 bytes Desc: This is a digitally signed message part URL: From ghenry at suretecsystems.com Sun Jun 19 10:41:07 2005 From: ghenry at suretecsystems.com (Gavin Henry) Date: Sun, 19 Jun 2005 11:41:07 +0100 Subject: For Rahul Message-ID: <200506191141.07885.ghenry@suretecsystems.com> http://www.oreillynet.com/pub/wlg/7237 >From StillBob? -- Kind Regards, Gavin Henry. Managing Director. T +44 (0) 1224 279484 M +44 (0) 7930 323266 F +44 (0) 1224 742001 E ghenry at suretecsystems.com Open Source. Open Solutions(tm). http://www.suretecsystems.com/ From kwade at redhat.com Sun Jun 19 19:52:18 2005 From: kwade at redhat.com (Karsten Wade) Date: Sun, 19 Jun 2005 12:52:18 -0700 Subject: Bugzilla assistance In-Reply-To: <1119106643.15553.4.camel@localhost.localdomain> References: <1119106643.15553.4.camel@localhost.localdomain> Message-ID: <1119210738.5185.16.camel@erato.phig.org> On Sat, 2005-06-18 at 10:57 -0400, Paul W. Frields wrote: > Karsten (or others), > > Is it possible that some of the folks here could get Bugzilla > "clearance" to help resolve and reassign bugs in Bugzilla? There's a > number of bugs starting to pile up that are either (1) bugs that should > be filed against other components, (2) quick fixes that we could resolve > after fixing in CVS, or (3) blank bugs saved either by accident or > through user Lack O' Clue(tm). While it's possible that this initial > surge may die down, would you like some help clearing out some of the > chaff? Consider this an offer of same. Short answer, yes, please. One can certainly clear up the issue within the bug without having any further bugzilla access, right? I don't know how to fool with bugzilla ACLs, that's something we can discuss. I -think- that any user can at least add information to a bug, such as a patch or, better yet, a pointer to the fact that it is fixed in CVS. When fixing in CVS, I highly recommend referring to the specific bugzilla number in the CVS commit message. This ties together the two disparate pieces. I'll put this in the Doc Guide to-add list. - Karsten -- Karsten Wade, RHCE * Sr. Tech Writer * http://people.redhat.com/kwade/ gpg fingerprint: 2680 DBFD D968 3141 0115 5F1B D992 0E06 AD0E 0C41 Red Hat SELinux Guide http://www.redhat.com/docs/manuals/enterprise/RHEL-4-Manual/selinux-guide/ -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: signature.asc Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 189 bytes Desc: This is a digitally signed message part URL: From stickster at gmail.com Mon Jun 20 12:14:30 2005 From: stickster at gmail.com (Paul W. Frields) Date: Mon, 20 Jun 2005 08:14:30 -0400 Subject: Bugzilla assistance In-Reply-To: <1119210738.5185.16.camel@erato.phig.org> References: <1119106643.15553.4.camel@localhost.localdomain> <1119210738.5185.16.camel@erato.phig.org> Message-ID: <1119269670.2822.2.camel@localhost.localdomain> On Sun, 2005-06-19 at 12:52 -0700, Karsten Wade wrote: > On Sat, 2005-06-18 at 10:57 -0400, Paul W. Frields wrote: > > Karsten (or others), > > > > Is it possible that some of the folks here could get Bugzilla > > "clearance" to help resolve and reassign bugs in Bugzilla? There's a > > number of bugs starting to pile up that are either (1) bugs that should > > be filed against other components, (2) quick fixes that we could resolve > > after fixing in CVS, or (3) blank bugs saved either by accident or > > through user Lack O' Clue(tm). While it's possible that this initial > > surge may die down, would you like some help clearing out some of the > > chaff? Consider this an offer of same. > > Short answer, yes, please. > > One can certainly clear up the issue within the bug without having any > further bugzilla access, right? > > I don't know how to fool with bugzilla ACLs, that's something we can > discuss. I -think- that any user can at least add information to a bug, > such as a patch or, better yet, a pointer to the fact that it is fixed > in CVS. > > When fixing in CVS, I highly recommend referring to the specific > bugzilla number in the CVS commit message. This ties together the two > disparate pieces. I'll put this in the Doc Guide to-add list. I've been fixing a couple tidbits here and there. In my CVS commit message I make sure I have, on a separate line (and sometimes this will be the whole of the message if the bug is self-explanatory): Fix bug #123456 It probably doesn't matter what text people use, but having a number/pound sign "#" before the bug is a good thing. I've seen people do some cool automagical things with CVS commit messages and Perl, and having a marker for the bug number definitely helps. -- Paul W. Frields, RHCE http://paul.frields.org/ gpg fingerprint: 3DA6 A0AC 6D58 FEC4 0233 5906 ACDB C937 BD11 3717 Fedora Documentation Project: http://fedora.redhat.com/projects/docs/ -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: signature.asc Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 189 bytes Desc: This is a digitally signed message part URL: From tim at birdsnest.maths.tcd.ie Tue Jun 21 13:07:16 2005 From: tim at birdsnest.maths.tcd.ie (Timothy Murphy) Date: Tue, 21 Jun 2005 14:07:16 +0100 Subject: Bugzilla assistance References: <1119106643.15553.4.camel@localhost.localdomain> <1119210738.5185.16.camel@erato.phig.org> <1119269670.2822.2.camel@localhost.localdomain> Message-ID: Paul W. Frields wrote: > I've been fixing a couple tidbits here and there. In my CVS commit > message I make sure I have, on a separate line (and sometimes this will > be the whole of the message if the bug is self-explanatory): > > Fix bug #123456 > > It probably doesn't matter what text people use, but having a > number/pound sign "#" before the bug is a good thing. I've seen people > do some cool automagical things with CVS commit messages and Perl, and > having a marker for the bug number definitely helps. Pardon intrusion by a non-expert, but are you just talking about bugs in documentation? What exactly do you mean by your "CVS commit"? Commit to what? I have just been submitting a bugzilla on FC-4 (nothing to do with documentation) and found the whole process rather daunting. A bit like a conversation in a foreign language. I can't believe that this is the best way to document and resolve bugs. But this is probably OT here, in which case please ignore me. -- Timothy Murphy e-mail (<80k only): tim /at/ birdsnest.maths.tcd.ie tel: +353-86-2336090, +353-1-2842366 s-mail: School of Mathematics, Trinity College, Dublin 2, Ireland From kwade at redhat.com Tue Jun 21 21:39:44 2005 From: kwade at redhat.com (Karsten Wade) Date: Tue, 21 Jun 2005 14:39:44 -0700 Subject: Minutes from 21 June 2005 FDSCo meeting Message-ID: <1119389985.22136.107.camel@erato.phig.org> Enjoy. Fedora Documentation Steering Committee (FDSCo) 21 June 2005 #fedora-docs on irc.freenode.net Attendees: ========== Tammy Fox Paul Frields Stuart Ellis Tommy Reynolds Karsten Wade Gavin Henry New Stuff: ========== Docs-common module completed. See this message for more details: http://www.redhat.com/archives/fedora-docs-list/2005-June/msg00090.html Translation process needed. Relnotes are special and need to be translated throughout test cycles, then a final update to go out with the fedora-release package. We need a process to vet that quality and faithfulness of the translation. For the entire release notes process, there is a hard freeze deadlines, first for the release notes so test and final translations can be done, then for translation itself. The relnotes are frozen and perhaps tagged for translation To resolve PDF toolchain issues, set criteria or test cases for success. Task Stuff: =========== Stuart - File a bug with a suggestion to put the pre-filled bugzilla at the bottom of a checklist of options, within the relnotes. Karsten - Minute taker updates the list of tasks at http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/DocsProject/FedoraDocsSchedule following the meeting and release of these minutes. Karsten - Talk with DKL about upping the rights of FDSCo members for fedora-docs component in bugzilla Karsten - Release definition of how tasks are tracked. 1. Whiteboard projects on Wiki 2. Convert each task into a bug report 3. Make one or more master tracker bugs 4. Use the dependency tree in bugzilla to track tasks reason to use bugzilla is that it is a common tool that will do enough of what we need, as long as we use a manual workflow on top of it. tasks could be documents with their own set of dependencies, or a chapter, a feature request, etc. tasks can be infrastructure related, so for example with alexandria (staging server), we break it down into the pieces that need work. then http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/DocsProject/FedoraDocsSchedule/ becomes a place that links to specific master tracking bugs. this is similar with other wiki pages, e.g. EditorAssignments Karsten - Make sure docs and trans are part of main FC schedule. Start conversation about process with f-trans-l Karsten - Make staging server description more clear, release to f-docs-l for comments, work on getting resources. Karsten - Post mirror-tutorial. Karsten - Get Stuart and Paul added to the ACLs for f.r.c in cvs. Paul - Post license question to http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/FedoraLegalIssues FDSCo - Subscribe to f-trans-l (for now). Tommy - Looking at adding Saxon to xmlto. Tommy - Looking into using gcj to compile Saxon and FOP. Tommy - Write up how to branch and tag in CVS, for the mailing list and then for the DocG -- Karsten Wade, RHCE * Sr. Tech Writer * http://people.redhat.com/kwade/ gpg fingerprint: 2680 DBFD D968 3141 0115 5F1B D992 0E06 AD0E 0C41 Red Hat SELinux Guide http://www.redhat.com/docs/manuals/enterprise/RHEL-4-Manual/selinux-guide/ -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: signature.asc Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 189 bytes Desc: This is a digitally signed message part URL: From kwade at redhat.com Wed Jun 22 15:25:40 2005 From: kwade at redhat.com (Karsten Wade) Date: Wed, 22 Jun 2005 08:25:40 -0700 Subject: Bugzilla assistance In-Reply-To: References: <1119106643.15553.4.camel@localhost.localdomain> <1119210738.5185.16.camel@erato.phig.org> <1119269670.2822.2.camel@localhost.localdomain> Message-ID: <1119453940.22136.143.camel@erato.phig.org> On Tue, 2005-06-21 at 14:07 +0100, Timothy Murphy wrote: > Paul W. Frields wrote: > > > I've been fixing a couple tidbits here and there. In my CVS commit > > message I make sure I have, on a separate line (and sometimes this will > > be the whole of the message if the bug is self-explanatory): > > > > Fix bug #123456 > > > > It probably doesn't matter what text people use, but having a > > number/pound sign "#" before the bug is a good thing. I've seen people > > do some cool automagical things with CVS commit messages and Perl, and > > having a marker for the bug number definitely helps. > > Pardon intrusion by a non-expert, Don't worry, it's good to ask and keep everyone from assuming too much about this group. :) > but are you just talking about bugs in documentation? Yes. Bugs in documentation are: * Typos * Grammatical errors * Inaccurate or unclear technical instructions * Feature request * Add a section * Reorganize sections * Cover new content * Drop coverage of old content * etc. > What exactly do you mean by your "CVS commit"? > Commit to what? CVS is the concurrent versioning system that is used to store documentation (and program) source code. We use cvs.fedora.redhat.com. For more information, try http://www.cvshome.org/ and Google, of course. :) Using CVS allows us to collaborate on documentation, keep track of multiple versions (branches) of docs for different versions of Fedora Core, and be able to rollback to previous versions fairly easily. Instead of manually versioning directories and using a file transfer program (scp), we let CVS take care of all that for us. When submitting changes to CVS, you do the command 'cvs commit -m "log message" file1 file2 ...'. The commit puts the new content in CVS with the associated log message. An email is sent to fedora-docs-commits with the content of the update and the log message. > I have just been submitting a bugzilla on FC-4 > (nothing to do with documentation) > and found the whole process rather daunting. > A bit like a conversation in a foreign language. > I can't believe that this is the best way > to document and resolve bugs. > > But this is probably OT here, in which case please ignore me. Actually, we really need a "How To Use Fedora Bugzilla" document. Your situation is not abnormal. FOSS tends to assume a lot about users that is not always fair. Feel like being a usability editor of such a document? :) - Karsten -- Karsten Wade, RHCE * Sr. Tech Writer * http://people.redhat.com/kwade/ gpg fingerprint: 2680 DBFD D968 3141 0115 5F1B D992 0E06 AD0E 0C41 Red Hat SELinux Guide http://www.redhat.com/docs/manuals/enterprise/RHEL-4-Manual/selinux-guide/ -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: signature.asc Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 189 bytes Desc: This is a digitally signed message part URL: From jlaska at redhat.com Wed Jun 22 18:28:26 2005 From: jlaska at redhat.com (James Laska) Date: Wed, 22 Jun 2005 14:28:26 -0400 Subject: glossary.collection Message-ID: <1119464906.7515.33.camel@flatline.devel.redhat.com> I've been following the setup steps to get dynamic glossary creation working. The steps are outlined at the following URL: http://www.sagehill.net/docbookxsl/GlossDatabase.html Are there any known limitations with xsltproc where it will not generate the glossary database. I've googled on this subject and have found similar problems encountered by others ... but no resolution. I'm curious if any others have experience with using glossary.collection? Thanks, -- James Laska From tim at birdsnest.maths.tcd.ie Wed Jun 22 19:48:42 2005 From: tim at birdsnest.maths.tcd.ie (Timothy Murphy) Date: Wed, 22 Jun 2005 20:48:42 +0100 Subject: Bugzilla assistance References: <1119106643.15553.4.camel@localhost.localdomain> <1119210738.5185.16.camel@erato.phig.org> <1119269670.2822.2.camel@localhost.localdomain> <1119453940.22136.143.camel@erato.phig.org> Message-ID: Karsten Wade wrote: > Don't worry, it's good to ask and keep everyone from assuming too much > about this group. :) > >> but are you just talking about bugs in documentation? > > Yes. Bugs in documentation are: > > * Typos > * Grammatical errors > * Inaccurate or unclear technical instructions > * Feature request > * Add a section > * Reorganize sections > * Cover new content > * Drop coverage of old content > * etc. > >> What exactly do you mean by your "CVS commit"? >> Commit to what? > > CVS is the concurrent versioning system that is used to store > documentation (and program) source code. We use cvs.fedora.redhat.com. > For more information, try http://www.cvshome.org/ and Google, of > course. :) Apologies. I do know what CVS is, but misunderstood that you were refering to a general bugzilla CVS. >> I have just been submitting a bugzilla on FC-4 >> (nothing to do with documentation) >> and found the whole process rather daunting. >> A bit like a conversation in a foreign language. >> I can't believe that this is the best way >> to document and resolve bugs. >> >> But this is probably OT here, in which case please ignore me. > > Actually, we really need a "How To Use Fedora Bugzilla" document. Your > situation is not abnormal. FOSS tends to assume a lot about users that > is not always fair. > > Feel like being a usability editor of such a document? :) I'm certainly happy to help in any way I can. I guess in this case it would have been best if there had been a simple Help file at the bugzilla site. I'm currently trying to work out why remote use of CUPS seems to have ceased to work since I went over to FC-4. I must look around and see if there is a simple CUPS howto (I certainly don't think the official CUPS documentation could be described in that way.) If I don't find any such HOWTO I shall certainly pen a few words. -- Timothy Murphy e-mail (<80k only): tim /at/ birdsnest.maths.tcd.ie tel: +353-86-2336090, +353-1-2842366 s-mail: School of Mathematics, Trinity College, Dublin 2, Ireland From mhideo at redhat.com Thu Jun 23 00:09:24 2005 From: mhideo at redhat.com (Michael H. Smith) Date: Thu, 23 Jun 2005 10:09:24 +1000 Subject: Michael Hideo-Smith Message-ID: <200506231009.24355.mhideo@redhat.com> Michael Hideo-Smith Alderley, Australia Engineering Red Hat Asia-Pacific Goals: o Promote OSS Input Methods for complex text languages (scim & iiimf) o Promote fonts Historical Qualifications: BFA, Filmic Writing, University of Southern CA 1995 Story Analyst, (covers) New Line Cinema, 1990-1994 Nonfiction: o Social Security Administration, Washington Information Network I & II, InfoLA, InfoBrisbane, Utah QuickCourts, Arizona Quickcourts, LegalAid Queensland. Fiction: o Metrocops, Scouts, 1997, Hollowpoint, Tokyo/Kansas, Love and Rockets (screenplays) o Mermaids, Permanent-Part Time, Rising Son (short stories) Additional Skills: o Editor, speed-reading What makes you an excellent match for the project? o Love of writing and strong desire to ensure people in developing nations can get access to input method writing technologies and fonts to do homeowork, write poetry, short stories, love letters without paying a M$ tax. pub 1024D/1FFB1F47 2005-06-22 Michael Hideo Smith (Internationalisation) Key fingerprint = 8086 5DB8 B297 C4D6 E3BB 4FA9 4C5B D8FD 1FFB 1F47 sub 1024g/954B8DDD 2005-06-22 [expires: 2008-06-21] -- Michael H. Smith Red Hat Asia-Pacific Ph: +61 7 3514 8103 Level 2/5 Gardner Close Fx: +61 7 3514 8199 Milton, QLD 4064 Mb: +61 418 182 451 Australia From docs-list at fedoralinks.org Thu Jun 23 04:58:12 2005 From: docs-list at fedoralinks.org (Robert 'Bob' Jensen) Date: Wed, 22 Jun 2005 23:58:12 -0500 Subject: Self-Introduction: Robert 'Bob' Jensen Message-ID: <1119502692.28556.21.camel@cbccws01.cbcchome.cbccgroup.com> Full legal name (as you use it is fine) Robert 'Bob' Jensen * St. Cloud, MN, USA * Consultant * Complete Business Computer Consulting * Your goals in the Fedora Project * What do you want to write about? * Anything that will be useful for the new user in plain "non-technical" language. Any geek can blather on and on about a favorite topic in a way that the average use can not understand. Writing docs that the average end user can understand is key. * What other documentation do you want to see published? * So much needs to be done it is hard to pick a place to start. * Do you want to edit for grammar/writing and/or technical accuracy? * I am willing to help the group in any way I can. If I never author a document and just help editing or formatting that is fine with me. * Historical qualifications * What other projects or writing have you worked on in the past? * I have never done a lot of writing but feel the need to help the Fedora Community, as a non-coder I think the Documentation Project is a perfect fit for me. * What level and type of computer skills do you have? * I am a self taught computer user, having done every thing the wrong way twice while reading overly technical docs it has made me appreciate easy to read documentation. * What other skills do you have that might be applicable? User interface design, other so-called soft skills (people skills), programming, etc. * Being a self employed consultant I have many skills including website design, web standards compliance, team leadership and others. * What makes you an excellent match for the project? * Many I am sure say they are willing to help, I am willing to do. I can't wait to get started. * GPG KEYID and fingerprint pub 1024D/CF8E5983 2005-06-23 [expires: 2006-06-23] Key fingerprint = 5CFD 4C17 59B6 C749 C67A 7698 7816 9E49 CF8E 5983 sub 2048g/13B2128E 2005-06-23 [expires: 2006-06-23] -- Robert 'Bob' Jensen Linux User Web - http://www.fedoralinks.org/ Web - http://scalug.us/ -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: signature.asc Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 189 bytes Desc: This is a digitally signed message part URL: From ghenry at suretecsystems.com Thu Jun 23 09:49:11 2005 From: ghenry at suretecsystems.com (Gavin Henry) Date: Thu, 23 Jun 2005 10:49:11 +0100 (BST) Subject: More Contributors added. Message-ID: <60643.193.195.148.66.1119520151.squirrel@webmail.suretecsystems.com> http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/DocsProject/Contributors -- Kind Regards, Gavin Henry. Managing Director. T +44 (0) 1224 279484 M +44 (0) 7930 323266 F +44 (0) 1224 742001 E ghenry at suretecsystems.com Open Source. Open Solutions(tm). http://www.suretecsystems.com/ From stickster at gmail.com Thu Jun 23 11:35:14 2005 From: stickster at gmail.com (Paul W. Frields) Date: Thu, 23 Jun 2005 07:35:14 -0400 Subject: More Contributors added. In-Reply-To: <60643.193.195.148.66.1119520151.squirrel@webmail.suretecsystems.com> References: <60643.193.195.148.66.1119520151.squirrel@webmail.suretecsystems.com> Message-ID: <1119526514.2878.7.camel@localhost.localdomain> On Thu, 2005-06-23 at 10:49 +0100, Gavin Henry wrote: > http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/DocsProject/Contributors Michael and Bob, Welcome to the project! Please check out some of our informational sources if you haven't already: http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/DocsProject - Notice the information on process. We are a younger project, but because documentation quickly becomes canonical on a subject, it's especially important that work here gets vetted before release in a way that is not good for actual code, where the rule is "release early, release often." http://fedora.redhat.com/participate/documentation-guide/ - The Documentation Guide is the next FDP Major Work(tm) we will be tackling, this time for a rewrite to make it more useful to non-coders and newbies. I am always up front about the fact that, although I known a little C/C ++ and a smattering of other stuff, I don't code for a living. I don't want to read documents that are written for coders. Like Bob, I believe that if a document is to be useful, it needs to have a definite target audience. If that audience includes novices, the doc needs to be written as such. Right now we have a deficit of writers, so I hope both of you will please consider bringing in some ideas for tutorials you want to write. If you don't have any ideas handy, I will keep you both "in the loop" for writing small chapters of the Documentation Guide (at first), to cut your teeth on the process and tools. Ask frequent questions, since we're all here to help each other. -- Paul W. Frields, RHCE http://paul.frields.org/ gpg fingerprint: 3DA6 A0AC 6D58 FEC4 0233 5906 ACDB C937 BD11 3717 Fedora Documentation Project: http://fedora.redhat.com/projects/docs/ -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: signature.asc Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 189 bytes Desc: This is a digitally signed message part URL: From mrguytx at austin.rr.com Fri Jun 24 01:52:41 2005 From: mrguytx at austin.rr.com (W. Guy Thomas) Date: Thu, 23 Jun 2005 20:52:41 -0500 Subject: Introduction Message-ID: <1119577961.5747.29.camel@localhost.localdomain> Hello, my name is Guy also known as 'misfit-toy' on #fedora. An unfortunate choice of nicks made while my daughter was watching rudolph the rednose reindeer. In any case, I am joining in here at the direction of mether and quaid to bring up two web sites I have that are devoted to fedora and see what direction I should take, if any... The 1st site is http://fedorasolved.com which is what I call a 'reverse forum' in which there are no questions, only answers. Users post issues they have resolved themselves. There are no followup questions unless a 'fix' post is called into question. The 2nd site is one formed recently by a number of independent website owners such as myself in the hopes of getting some kind of cohesion amongst us 'third party' sites. http://fedorasolved.com/fccp I suppose my first question is one of authenticity? i.e. do you think these sites are valid in the eyes of fedora-marketing and should they continue as is, or change, or close? Fedorasolved is getting quite a bit of traffic lately as people pick up on it, but I have avoided 'self promotion'. Are there any plans to incorporate listings of private websites such as mine and others or are we on our own or are we stepping on toes here? Just a few starter questions. Hope to participate here. Thanks for your consideration. p.s. I am posting this identical email to fedora-marketing but not cross-posting it, so if you are on both lists forgive me for the duplication. -- W. Guy Thomas -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From mhideo at redhat.com Fri Jun 24 05:25:29 2005 From: mhideo at redhat.com (Michael H. Smith) Date: Fri, 24 Jun 2005 15:25:29 +1000 Subject: More Contributors added. In-Reply-To: <1119526514.2878.7.camel@localhost.localdomain> References: <60643.193.195.148.66.1119520151.squirrel@webmail.suretecsystems.com> <1119526514.2878.7.camel@localhost.localdomain> Message-ID: <200506241525.29166.mhideo@redhat.com> Cheers Gavin and thanks for the warm welcome. I'll be covering the internationalisation technologies included with Fedora as a primary focus as I get up to speed with things. My beat will be on complex text language support. cheers, Mike On Thu, 23 Jun 2005 09:35 pm, Paul W. Frields wrote: > On Thu, 2005-06-23 at 10:49 +0100, Gavin Henry wrote: > > http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/DocsProject/Contributors > > Michael and Bob, > > Welcome to the project! Please check out some of our informational > sources if you haven't already: > > http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/DocsProject - Notice the information on > process. We are a younger project, but because documentation quickly > becomes canonical on a subject, it's especially important that work here > gets vetted before release in a way that is not good for actual code, > where the rule is "release early, release often." > > http://fedora.redhat.com/participate/documentation-guide/ - The > Documentation Guide is the next FDP Major Work(tm) we will be tackling, > this time for a rewrite to make it more useful to non-coders and > newbies. > > I am always up front about the fact that, although I known a little C/C > ++ and a smattering of other stuff, I don't code for a living. I don't > want to read documents that are written for coders. Like Bob, I believe > that if a document is to be useful, it needs to have a definite target > audience. If that audience includes novices, the doc needs to be > written as such. > > Right now we have a deficit of writers, so I hope both of you will > please consider bringing in some ideas for tutorials you want to write. > If you don't have any ideas handy, I will keep you both "in the loop" > for writing small chapters of the Documentation Guide (at first), to cut > your teeth on the process and tools. Ask frequent questions, since > we're all here to help each other. -- From stickster at gmail.com Sat Jun 25 14:28:35 2005 From: stickster at gmail.com (Paul W. Frields) Date: Sat, 25 Jun 2005 10:28:35 -0400 Subject: Additional writing guidelines Message-ID: <1119709715.2850.48.camel@localhost.localdomain> As a ramp-up to working on the DocGuide, I am catching up on some editing. As I do so, and at the risk of sounding pedantic or picky, I wanted to share some thoughts with the list. I've been dipping into a bunch of the languishing tutorials and only doing real work on one or two, so I'm not going to point out specific examples, especially since that might be construed as unfair criticism of a particular work. The fact that there is any material at all to edit is a BIG credit to the hard-working volunteer writers who provided it. I hope these thoughts might be helpful to some of the people who have come on board recently and are preparing ideas for future tutorials. Comments and discussion are welcome. You may wish to refer to and comment on: http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/DocsProject/DocumentationGuide 1. Organization: All tutorials and guides should have an introduction. All tutorials should follow the introduction content standards listed on the wiki. Remember that tutorials are *task-oriented*, and not meant to be lectures reduced to XML. Constantly ask yourself: "What are the objectives of this tutorial? What will the user BE ABLE TO DO after reading it? Is what I'm writing fulfilling those objectives? Does it show them what to do?" 2. Indexing: Be mindful of the difference between good sectional organization and indexing. The table of contents should suffice to locate major and even minor topics, *if* the material is organized correctly. An index is used to locate concepts and terms whose location isn't obvious from the table of contents or the organization of the document. There may in fact be no need to index a short tutorial, which can be read in its entirety quickly. Indexing is more important for longer works that a reader is not expected to digest in one sitting. Indexing can still be good in a smaller work as long as it is used judiciously. There is no need to be concerned about indexing every topic that appears in a section. Do not index redundantly against the table of contents. If you have a section that entitled "Using Application XYZ," you should not make an index entry for "XYZ, using." You should expect all readers will read the Introduction section of the tutorial, even if that is not always the case. Technical writers and editors, just like mathematicians or programmers, must at some point rely on a few basic postulates. A programmer rightly expects that if you use his code, you will read the licensing terms, and the function headers. We expect that someone who locates a tutorial will read the introduction to see that it matches the subject material. Therefore indexing material that should be found in the Introduction is redundant and unnecessary. Keep in mind that the Introduction should include a section for each major technology discussed in your tutorial. A tutorial should not have more than two or three major technologies involved, or else you should consider splitting it. 3. The Dreaded "Core Dump": Be wary of using terms with which a new user is not necessarily familiar, if your target audience includes new users. (Your target audience should be defined in the Introduction as required above.) Always write to the level of the *least* experienced user whom you reasonably expect to use your document. Remember that bytes are cheap, and if an explanation requires an extra paragraph, you should write it. See the "References" section below for a different take. A consistent problem with documentation is that it can easily become what my coworkers and I frequently refer to as a "core dump," in the sense that it is an unstructured output of all of the author's (many times considerable) knowledge of a subject. Be wary of this in writing/editing documents. "Core dumps" are not good documentation, and lose their authority quickly for discerning readers. The best way to avoid core dumps is to OUTLINE your document before you begin, as most of us did for composition classes as {pre,}teenagers. Flesh out your outline, and revisit it several times *before* you begin writing. Do the ideas progress logically? Are you fulfilling "dependencies" in the education process by discussing the basics first, before you move on to more complex material? Put yourself in the shoes of your least experienced reader. (If you are unable to remember a time when you were inexperienced, you need to find someone new to the subject to review your document and give you pointers!) 4. References: Using references to other authoritative documents is a good thing. An authoritative document might be another approved FDP tutorial or guide, an official work of the Linux Documentation Project, or a published work (of the dead-tree variety, including online offerings of dead-tree works). Messages on listservs, online forums, news sites, or other sources that do not have a rigorous editorial process are not good references. - - - - - Well, that's it for now. Maybe more later when I have a chance to pore over some of the other stuff in CVS. Have a great weekend! -- Paul W. Frields, RHCE http://paul.frields.org/ gpg fingerprint: 3DA6 A0AC 6D58 FEC4 0233 5906 ACDB C937 BD11 3717 Fedora Documentation Project: http://fedora.redhat.com/projects/docs/ -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: signature.asc Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 189 bytes Desc: This is a digitally signed message part URL: From swordman at actcom.net.il Sun Jun 26 10:29:50 2005 From: swordman at actcom.net.il (John M. Poma) Date: Sun, 26 Jun 2005 13:29:50 +0300 Subject: Fedora installation Message-ID: <42BE839E.90705@actcom.net.il> Hi I run Linux RedHat distro for Enterprise. I download Fedora FC3-i386-disk01.iso -> disk04.iso. Reading your web installation site I try: To start the installation program, boot from the DVD, the first CD, or the boot CD made from the boot.iso image. Result: Unable to boot with the iso format file and I think that's probably normal. How, with Linux 2.4.21-4.ELsmp, to transform the iso to a bootable CD? Thanks a lot for your help. John Poma From ivazquez at ivazquez.net Sun Jun 26 10:45:47 2005 From: ivazquez at ivazquez.net (Ignacio Vazquez-Abrams) Date: Sun, 26 Jun 2005 06:45:47 -0400 Subject: Fedora installation In-Reply-To: <42BE839E.90705@actcom.net.il> References: <42BE839E.90705@actcom.net.il> Message-ID: <1119782747.4427.3.camel@ignacio.ignacio.lan> On Sun, 2005-06-26 at 13:29 +0300, John M. Poma wrote: > How, with Linux 2.4.21-4.ELsmp, to transform the iso to a bootable CD? End-user support for Fedora is found here: http://www.redhat.com/mailman/listinfo/fedora-list Although it sounds like you might want to try the RHEL list or other support resources. -- Ignacio Vazquez-Abrams http://fedora.ivazquez.net/ gpg --keyserver hkp://subkeys.pgp.net --recv-key 38028b72 -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: signature.asc Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 189 bytes Desc: This is a digitally signed message part URL: From kwade at redhat.com Mon Jun 27 00:36:46 2005 From: kwade at redhat.com (Karsten Wade) Date: Sun, 26 Jun 2005 17:36:46 -0700 Subject: Michael Hideo-Smith In-Reply-To: <200506231009.24355.mhideo@redhat.com> References: <200506231009.24355.mhideo@redhat.com> Message-ID: <1119832606.22136.245.camel@erato.phig.org> On Thu, 2005-06-23 at 10:09 +1000, Michael H. Smith wrote: Welcome! > Goals: > o Promote OSS Input Methods for complex text languages (scim & iiimf) > o Promote fonts You are much needed. I also appreciate any mental connections we have with translation and other i18n concerns. Our pool of that knowledge is not as large as it needs to be for successful multi-lingual documentation. - Karsten -- Karsten Wade, RHCE * Sr. Tech Writer * http://people.redhat.com/kwade/ gpg fingerprint: 2680 DBFD D968 3141 0115 5F1B D992 0E06 AD0E 0C41 Red Hat SELinux Guide http://www.redhat.com/docs/manuals/enterprise/RHEL-4-Manual/selinux-guide/ -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: signature.asc Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 189 bytes Desc: This is a digitally signed message part URL: From kwade at redhat.com Mon Jun 27 00:42:38 2005 From: kwade at redhat.com (Karsten Wade) Date: Sun, 26 Jun 2005 17:42:38 -0700 Subject: Self-Introduction: Robert 'Bob' Jensen In-Reply-To: <1119502692.28556.21.camel@cbccws01.cbcchome.cbccgroup.com> References: <1119502692.28556.21.camel@cbccws01.cbcchome.cbccgroup.com> Message-ID: <1119832958.22136.252.camel@erato.phig.org> On Wed, 2005-06-22 at 23:58 -0500, Robert 'Bob' Jensen wrote: > Robert 'Bob' Jensen Greetings, again. We've met on #fedora-docs, my nick is 'quaid'. I know that the formal Fedora Project moves at its own pace, and that can seem glacial to the unofficial community projects. I do hope that we can us fedora-docs-list as a place to discuss connections to other community documentation efforts, do some collaboration, and generally help our brothers and sisters out. Many of the community support efforts are going to continue to prefer their nimble approach. However, I know that the Fedora Project is already more nimble than in the past, and we benefit from the input of the support-interested. Welcome and cheers, Karsten -- Karsten Wade, RHCE * Sr. Tech Writer * http://people.redhat.com/kwade/ gpg fingerprint: 2680 DBFD D968 3141 0115 5F1B D992 0E06 AD0E 0C41 Red Hat SELinux Guide http://www.redhat.com/docs/manuals/enterprise/RHEL-4-Manual/selinux-guide/ -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: signature.asc Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 189 bytes Desc: This is a digitally signed message part URL: From stuart at elsn.org Tue Jun 28 18:21:32 2005 From: stuart at elsn.org (Stuart Ellis) Date: Tue, 28 Jun 2005 19:21:32 +0100 Subject: Additional writing guidelines In-Reply-To: <1119709715.2850.48.camel@localhost.localdomain> References: <1119709715.2850.48.camel@localhost.localdomain> Message-ID: <1119982892.9521.27.camel@localhost.localdomain> On Sat, 2005-06-25 at 10:28 -0400, Paul W. Frields wrote: > There may in fact be no need to index a short tutorial, which can be > read in its entirety quickly. Indexing is more important for longer > works that a reader is not expected to digest in one sitting. Indexing > can still be good in a smaller work as long as it is used judiciously. > There is no need to be concerned about indexing every topic that appears > in a section. Do not index redundantly against the table of contents. > If you have a section that entitled "Using Application XYZ," you should > not make an index entry for "XYZ, using." Indexing does feel slightly redundant on the HTML builds on individual tutorials, and I've tended to index more with an eye for future-proofing for other formats. If/when all of the tutorials are shipped together as part of the distribution then help viewers and document search may make use of the DocBook index tags, and so users may not start with the ToC and read forward as they do with the current HTML format. > Keep in mind that the Introduction should include a section for each > major technology discussed in your tutorial. A tutorial should not have > more than two or three major technologies involved, or else you should > consider splitting it. I tried this and found that I wasn't entirely happy with the result in one tutorial, although it has worked for the other. The problem I found was that the information presented relies on understanding a set of concepts that are familiar to experienced Linux users, but require explanation for others. By moving the concepts out of the Introduction it was possible to present them without making the Introduction lengthy, and allow the experienced reader to skip a clearly defined section of the document after reading the whole Introduction. The ideal fix for this might be to have a central document of concepts, so we can explain "packages", "repositories" etc. once rather than in individual tutorials. -- Stuart Ellis stuart at elsn.org Fedora Documentation Project: http://fedora.redhat.com/projects/docs/ GPG key ID: 7098ABEA GPG key fingerprint: 68B0 E291 FB19 C845 E60E 9569 292E E365 7098 ABEA -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: signature.asc Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 189 bytes Desc: This is a digitally signed message part URL: From stuart at elsn.org Tue Jun 28 19:33:13 2005 From: stuart at elsn.org (Stuart Ellis) Date: Tue, 28 Jun 2005 20:33:13 +0100 Subject: Handling Multiple Document Versions in CVS ? Message-ID: <1119987194.9521.36.camel@localhost.localdomain> I've now got source files for a FC3 version of the Installation Guide, and so need to check this in alongside the FC4 version currently in CVS. AIUI we can either create subdirectories within the CVS modules for each version, or use tag/branch features of CVS. In case it makes a difference - each version is about 18 MB (due to graphics). -- Stuart Ellis stuart at elsn.org Fedora Documentation Project: http://fedora.redhat.com/projects/docs/ GPG key ID: 7098ABEA GPG key fingerprint: 68B0 E291 FB19 C845 E60E 9569 292E E365 7098 ABEA -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: signature.asc Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 189 bytes Desc: This is a digitally signed message part URL: From Tommy.Reynolds at MegaCoder.com Tue Jun 28 20:01:43 2005 From: Tommy.Reynolds at MegaCoder.com (Tommy Reynolds) Date: Tue, 28 Jun 2005 15:01:43 -0500 Subject: Handling Multiple Document Versions in CVS ? In-Reply-To: <1119987194.9521.36.camel@localhost.localdomain> References: <1119987194.9521.36.camel@localhost.localdomain> Message-ID: <20050628150143.25a32284.Tommy.Reynolds@MegaCoder.com> Uttered Stuart Ellis , spake thus: > I've now got source files for a FC3 version of the Installation Guide, > and so need to check this in alongside the FC4 version currently in CVS. > AIUI we can either create subdirectories within the CVS modules for each > version, or use tag/branch features of CVS. > In case it makes a difference - each version is about 18 MB (due to > graphics). I'm working on resolving this issue and owe the list a HOWTO, but to put it succinctly: tag and branch. No help for it, but the graphics will just continue to be huge. They don't compress well and probably get uuencoded by CVS anyway. Some bullets we just have to bite. Cheers -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 189 bytes Desc: not available URL: From stickster at gmail.com Tue Jun 28 20:24:41 2005 From: stickster at gmail.com (Paul W. Frields) Date: Tue, 28 Jun 2005 16:24:41 -0400 Subject: tidy-bowl - BETA invitation! Message-ID: <1119990281.7165.13.camel@localhost.localdomain> Greetings FDPers, Tommy and I have been collaborating on a method to mitigate our problems with multiple editors. When FDP started, we envisioned a beautiful, pristine world in which everyone used Emacs+psgml -- pipe down, Tommy ;-D -- and collaborating writers and editors would not end up reformatting each other's work, since they were using the same tools. However, that expectation has proved somewhat unreasonable, especially in light of (1) our goal to lower barriers for entry as far as possible, and (2) the proliferation of XML editors out there. As a result, the FDP canon will, in all likelihood, no longer require people to use specific tools, although a preference for Emacs+PSGML is likely to linger, since the majority of the editors are using those tools. An XML normalization engine (xmlformat) will reformat docs when they are imported or committed to CVS. It uses a configuration file which should not complicate life for writers or editors using most tools of which we're aware. Because the normalization does not change the actual copy of the file on your disk, you don't have to worry about how the committed version might have different whitespace, margins, blocking, etc. from your copy on disk. You simply keep editing as usual. Any person checking out a file from CVS will get the normalized version, which they can feel free to *reformat* locally. Any such changes will be "stripped" when commits are made. Only the content matters. CAVEAT: Once you make a change to a .xml document where your local copy is NOT normalized, when you use the "cvs diff" command, the diff will be very long because of the normalization differences. Sorry, folks, that part's out of our hands; it was the price we paid to allow more tools out there, and it seems worth it. The diff that actually ends up going to the fedora-docs-commits list from the CVS server *will* be sane. If you must have a sane local diff, you can run "cvs up -C " to replace your non-normalized file with the normalized version from the repository. If you have uncommitted work in the file, commit it before you run that command, or it will be lost. The only drawback is that your editor may want to reformat the file again when you next load it. This will not affect CVS. So now, THE INVITATION: For now, the only module that is normalized is the xml-normalize/ module. Please feel free to add files there and observe the results... i.e. beat on the script. If something breaks, please report problems to the list, Tommy, or me. Please check the log for a file before you diddle with it, so as not to inconvenience another tester. Thanks and have fun! -- Paul W. Frields, RHCE http://paul.frields.org/ gpg fingerprint: 3DA6 A0AC 6D58 FEC4 0233 5906 ACDB C937 BD11 3717 Fedora Documentation Project: http://fedora.redhat.com/projects/docs/ -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: signature.asc Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 189 bytes Desc: This is a digitally signed message part URL: From Tommy.Reynolds at MegaCoder.com Tue Jun 28 20:42:55 2005 From: Tommy.Reynolds at MegaCoder.com (Tommy Reynolds) Date: Tue, 28 Jun 2005 15:42:55 -0500 Subject: tidy-bowl - BETA invitation! In-Reply-To: <1119990281.7165.13.camel@localhost.localdomain> References: <1119990281.7165.13.camel@localhost.localdomain> Message-ID: <20050628154255.12cebe1d.Tommy.Reynolds@MegaCoder.com> Uttered "Paul W. Frields" , spake thus: > Only the content matters. > > CAVEAT: Once you make a change to a .xml document where your local copy > is NOT normalized, when you use the "cvs diff" command, the diff will be > very long because of the normalization differences. If you would like to see the magic, just update your "docs-commons" directory and see three new files in a "docs-common/bin" directory: 1) xmlformat -- the reformatting script 2) xmlformat-dfp.conf -- configuration file for the script 3) tidy-bowl -- driver script You can try it out by doing this, in your document working directory: $ ../docs-common/bin/tidy-bowl my-file.xml Caution: this rewrites your input file inplace, so it may be wise to keep a copy ;-) This can also help reduce a lengthly local diff to what the CVS server would actually see. HTH -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 189 bytes Desc: not available URL: From kwade at redhat.com Tue Jun 28 21:32:27 2005 From: kwade at redhat.com (Karsten Wade) Date: Tue, 28 Jun 2005 14:32:27 -0700 Subject: Additional writing guidelines In-Reply-To: <1119982892.9521.27.camel@localhost.localdomain> References: <1119709715.2850.48.camel@localhost.localdomain> <1119982892.9521.27.camel@localhost.localdomain> Message-ID: <1119994347.5401.37.camel@erato.phig.org> On Tue, 2005-06-28 at 19:21 +0100, Stuart Ellis wrote: > On Sat, 2005-06-25 at 10:28 -0400, Paul W. Frields wrote: > > > There may in fact be no need to index a short tutorial, which can be > > read in its entirety quickly. Indexing is more important for longer > > works that a reader is not expected to digest in one sitting. Indexing > > can still be good in a smaller work as long as it is used judiciously. > > There is no need to be concerned about indexing every topic that appears > > in a section. Do not index redundantly against the table of contents. > > If you have a section that entitled "Using Application XYZ," you should > > not make an index entry for "XYZ, using." > > Indexing does feel slightly redundant on the HTML builds on individual > tutorials, and I've tended to index more with an eye for future-proofing > for other formats. If/when all of the tutorials are shipped together as > part of the distribution then help viewers and document search may make > use of the DocBook index tags, and so users may not start with the ToC > and read forward as they do with the current HTML format. As much as I cringe at it whenever I do it, I do think there is some use in having an indexing term that closely resembles the section title. This may help with Google ratings, and as Stuart points out, it helps make documents more modular as the project grows. I think the key is that doing the close resemblence indexing is less than a bare minimum. There needs to be more meaningful indexing, as well. For example, I've been using "how to" and "what is"/"what are" whenever a section addresses something like that. This can build quite an impressive list in the index. > > Keep in mind that the Introduction should include a section for each > > major technology discussed in your tutorial. A tutorial should not have > > more than two or three major technologies involved, or else you should > > consider splitting it. > > I tried this and found that I wasn't entirely happy with the result in > one tutorial, although it has worked for the other. The problem I found > was that the information presented relies on understanding a set of > concepts that are familiar to experienced Linux users, but require > explanation for others. By moving the concepts out of the Introduction > it was possible to present them without making the Introduction lengthy, > and allow the experienced reader to skip a clearly defined section of > the document after reading the whole Introduction. I think you are both discussing slightly different things and are not that far from agreement. The main focus of a document should be on one or a few closely related technologies. It seems reasonable to cover any additional concepts that need explanation to help support the overall topic. For example, an Apache PHP Tutorial might include various pieces about how to update httpd.conf without explaining everything about that conf file. A guideline might be, if a topic threatens to grow from a
to a and the topic is mainly out of scope for the document, it deserves its own document and a reference. I like the idea of moving content to separate background/concept sections for skipping by the knowledgeable. > The ideal fix for this might be to have a central document of concepts, > so we can explain "packages", "repositories" etc. once rather than in > individual tutorials. Good idea. We could have a standard section of references, customizing it per document for whatever external concepts might need better understanding. - Karsten -- Karsten Wade, RHCE * Sr. Tech Writer * http://people.redhat.com/kwade/ gpg fingerprint: 2680 DBFD D968 3141 0115 5F1B D992 0E06 AD0E 0C41 Red Hat SELinux Guide http://www.redhat.com/docs/manuals/enterprise/RHEL-4-Manual/selinux-guide/ -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: signature.asc Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 189 bytes Desc: This is a digitally signed message part URL: From kwade at redhat.com Tue Jun 28 22:19:37 2005 From: kwade at redhat.com (Karsten Wade) Date: Tue, 28 Jun 2005 15:19:37 -0700 Subject: FDSCo minutes 28 June 2005 Message-ID: <1119997177.5401.39.camel@erato.phig.org> FDSCo meeting #fedora-docs irc.freenode.net 28 June 2005 Attendees: ========== Tommy Reynolds Karsten Wade Gavin Henry Paul Frields Stuart Ellis Updates: ======== XML normalization project now beta. See mailing list for beta testing request. Members needing advanced bugzilla access can currently join 'fedorabugs' group in Fedora Account System. Actions: ======== Paul: invite beta tests of XML normalization Karsten: task tracking process delivered for next meeting discussion Karsten: to train Rahul and Gavin on updating the website after the next meeting. This is open to all FDSCo/FDP members. This is the first steps in training Web publishers. Karsten: write up first draft of new docs2trans process. Karsten: still need to provide a better draft of staging server idea. Rahul: will start a Wiki page that can be the source for a Bugzilla Tutorial. Karsten: get FDP it's own bz category -- Karsten Wade, RHCE * Sr. Tech Writer * http://people.redhat.com/kwade/ gpg fingerprint: 2680 DBFD D968 3141 0115 5F1B D992 0E06 AD0E 0C41 Red Hat SELinux Guide http://www.redhat.com/docs/manuals/enterprise/RHEL-4-Manual/selinux-guide/ -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: signature.asc Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 189 bytes Desc: This is a digitally signed message part URL: From stickster at gmail.com Tue Jun 28 22:25:45 2005 From: stickster at gmail.com (Paul W. Frields) Date: Tue, 28 Jun 2005 18:25:45 -0400 Subject: Additional writing guidelines In-Reply-To: <1119994347.5401.37.camel@erato.phig.org> References: <1119709715.2850.48.camel@localhost.localdomain> <1119982892.9521.27.camel@localhost.localdomain> <1119994347.5401.37.camel@erato.phig.org> Message-ID: <1119997545.7165.23.camel@localhost.localdomain> On Tue, 2005-06-28 at 14:32 -0700, Karsten Wade wrote: > On Tue, 2005-06-28 at 19:21 +0100, Stuart Ellis wrote: > > On Sat, 2005-06-25 at 10:28 -0400, Paul W. Frields wrote: > > > > > There may in fact be no need to index a short tutorial, which can be > > > read in its entirety quickly. Indexing is more important for longer > > > works that a reader is not expected to digest in one sitting. Indexing > > > can still be good in a smaller work as long as it is used judiciously. > > > There is no need to be concerned about indexing every topic that appears > > > in a section. Do not index redundantly against the table of contents. > > > If you have a section that entitled "Using Application XYZ," you should > > > not make an index entry for "XYZ, using." > > > > Indexing does feel slightly redundant on the HTML builds on individual > > tutorials, and I've tended to index more with an eye for future-proofing > > for other formats. If/when all of the tutorials are shipped together as > > part of the distribution then help viewers and document search may make > > use of the DocBook index tags, and so users may not start with the ToC > > and read forward as they do with the current HTML format. > > As much as I cringe at it whenever I do it, I do think there is some use > in having an indexing term that closely resembles the section title. > This may help with Google ratings, and as Stuart points out, it helps > make documents more modular as the project grows. > > I think the key is that doing the close resemblence indexing is less > than a bare minimum. There needs to be more meaningful indexing, as > well. > > For example, I've been using "how to" and "what is"/"what are" whenever > a section addresses something like that. This can build quite an > impressive list in the index. Yeesh. Well, I will yield graciously if outvoted on this one... I will also make an effort to back out my CVS changes on the yum tutorial on which I've been working, to restore those s. > > > Keep in mind that the Introduction should include a section for each > > > major technology discussed in your tutorial. A tutorial should not have > > > more than two or three major technologies involved, or else you should > > > consider splitting it. > > > > I tried this and found that I wasn't entirely happy with the result in > > one tutorial, although it has worked for the other. The problem I found > > was that the information presented relies on understanding a set of > > concepts that are familiar to experienced Linux users, but require > > explanation for others. By moving the concepts out of the Introduction > > it was possible to present them without making the Introduction lengthy, > > and allow the experienced reader to skip a clearly defined section of > > the document after reading the whole Introduction. > > I think you are both discussing slightly different things and are not > that far from agreement. > > The main focus of a document should be on one or a few closely related > technologies. > > It seems reasonable to cover any additional concepts that need > explanation to help support the overall topic. > > For example, an Apache PHP Tutorial might include various pieces about > how to update httpd.conf without explaining everything about that conf > file. > > A guideline might be, if a topic threatens to grow from a
to a > and the topic is mainly out of scope for the document, it > deserves its own document and a reference. > > I like the idea of moving content to separate background/concept > sections for skipping by the knowledgeable. Like Karsten says, we actually agree on this more or less. It's difficult right now to split out those concepts sometimes -- for now -- because we currently have a paucity of material to which we can refer readers. Part of the growth of the project will be demonstrated in how often we can pare down our tutorials since material is covered better separately, like for instance being able to refer people to a Bugzilla Tutorial to file bugs. :-) > > The ideal fix for this might be to have a central document of concepts, > > so we can explain "packages", "repositories" etc. once rather than in > > individual tutorials. > > Good idea. We could have a standard section of references, customizing > it per document for whatever external concepts might need better > understanding. We currently have a jargon-buster that could stand some juicing up... it might make an ideal place to put some explanatory material. What say you guys? -- Paul W. Frields, RHCE http://paul.frields.org/ gpg fingerprint: 3DA6 A0AC 6D58 FEC4 0233 5906 ACDB C937 BD11 3717 Fedora Documentation Project: http://fedora.redhat.com/projects/docs/ -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: signature.asc Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 189 bytes Desc: This is a digitally signed message part URL: From stuart at elsn.org Tue Jun 28 23:41:13 2005 From: stuart at elsn.org (Stuart Ellis) Date: Wed, 29 Jun 2005 00:41:13 +0100 Subject: Additional writing guidelines In-Reply-To: <1119997545.7165.23.camel@localhost.localdomain> References: <1119709715.2850.48.camel@localhost.localdomain> <1119982892.9521.27.camel@localhost.localdomain> <1119994347.5401.37.camel@erato.phig.org> <1119997545.7165.23.camel@localhost.localdomain> Message-ID: <1120002074.9521.145.camel@localhost.localdomain> On Tue, 2005-06-28 at 18:25 -0400, Paul W. Frields wrote: > On Tue, 2005-06-28 at 14:32 -0700, Karsten Wade wrote: > > On Tue, 2005-06-28 at 19:21 +0100, Stuart Ellis wrote: > > > On Sat, 2005-06-25 at 10:28 -0400, Paul W. Frields wrote: > > > > > > > There may in fact be no need to index a short tutorial, which can be > > > > read in its entirety quickly. Indexing is more important for longer > > > > works that a reader is not expected to digest in one sitting. Indexing > > > > can still be good in a smaller work as long as it is used judiciously. > > > > There is no need to be concerned about indexing every topic that appears > > > > in a section. Do not index redundantly against the table of contents. > > > > If you have a section that entitled "Using Application XYZ," you should > > > > not make an index entry for "XYZ, using." > > > > > > Indexing does feel slightly redundant on the HTML builds on individual > > > tutorials, and I've tended to index more with an eye for future-proofing > > > for other formats. If/when all of the tutorials are shipped together as > > > part of the distribution then help viewers and document search may make > > > use of the DocBook index tags, and so users may not start with the ToC > > > and read forward as they do with the current HTML format. > > > > As much as I cringe at it whenever I do it, I do think there is some use > > in having an indexing term that closely resembles the section title. > > This may help with Google ratings, and as Stuart points out, it helps > > make documents more modular as the project grows. > > > > I think the key is that doing the close resemblence indexing is less > > than a bare minimum. There needs to be more meaningful indexing, as > > well. > > > > For example, I've been using "how to" and "what is"/"what are" whenever > > a section addresses something like that. This can build quite an > > impressive list in the index. > > Yeesh. Well, I will yield graciously if outvoted on this one... I will > also make an effort to back out my CVS changes on the yum tutorial on > which I've been working, to restore those s. I'd be happy to go as far as indexing Guides only, and have no indexing at all for tutorials until it really becomes important. The main thing is making a conscious decision for all documents and running with it until circumstances change. > We currently have a jargon-buster that could stand some juicing up... it > might make an ideal place to put some explanatory material. What say > you guys? I've been thinking around this issue for a while, although I wanted to get the existing tutorials out first. One problem with the current Jargon Buster is that it is open-ended - there are no rules are to what ought to be defined and what ought to be left to Wikipedia. This is perhaps fixable by having a set of guidelines as to what should be glossaried, and then making sure that the entries are written. (This is actually an offer of work: I would be willing to take this on). A separate issue is that the glossary format is more terse than explanatory - I don't think that the four paragraphs on repositories currently in the yum tutorial could be replaced entirely with a glossary entry. Perhaps we could have some canned concepts paragraphs and drop them in each document (as Karsten says), or even perhaps use includes from a bank of XML fragment files (about-packages.xml, about-mirror-sites.xml). Another approach would be to take the bull by the horns and write an orientation guide to ensure that users have a baseline understanding that we can assume for other documents. That would require some careful scoping, so that it just teaches them how to fish, without getting into trying to document every task. -- Stuart Ellis stuart at elsn.org Fedora Documentation Project: http://fedora.redhat.com/projects/docs/ GPG key ID: 7098ABEA GPG key fingerprint: 68B0 E291 FB19 C845 E60E 9569 292E E365 7098 ABEA -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: signature.asc Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 189 bytes Desc: This is a digitally signed message part URL: From stuart at elsn.org Wed Jun 29 00:04:17 2005 From: stuart at elsn.org (Stuart Ellis) Date: Wed, 29 Jun 2005 01:04:17 +0100 Subject: Handling Multiple Document Versions in CVS ? In-Reply-To: <20050628150143.25a32284.Tommy.Reynolds@MegaCoder.com> References: <1119987194.9521.36.camel@localhost.localdomain> <20050628150143.25a32284.Tommy.Reynolds@MegaCoder.com> Message-ID: <1120003458.9521.156.camel@localhost.localdomain> On Tue, 2005-06-28 at 15:01 -0500, Tommy Reynolds wrote: > Uttered Stuart Ellis , spake thus: > > > I've now got source files for a FC3 version of the Installation Guide, > > and so need to check this in alongside the FC4 version currently in CVS. > > AIUI we can either create subdirectories within the CVS modules for each > > version, or use tag/branch features of CVS. > > In case it makes a difference - each version is about 18 MB (due to > > graphics). > > I'm working on resolving this issue and owe the list a HOWTO, but to > put it succinctly: tag and branch. OK. I'm now going to be off-line for the rest of the week, but when I'm back in I'll either read the HOWTO very carefully or check with you about doing this. -- Stuart Ellis stuart at elsn.org Fedora Documentation Project: http://fedora.redhat.com/projects/docs/ GPG key ID: 7098ABEA GPG key fingerprint: 68B0 E291 FB19 C845 E60E 9569 292E E365 7098 ABEA -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: signature.asc Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 189 bytes Desc: This is a digitally signed message part URL: From Tommy.Reynolds at MegaCoder.com Wed Jun 29 02:28:41 2005 From: Tommy.Reynolds at MegaCoder.com (Tommy Reynolds) Date: Tue, 28 Jun 2005 21:28:41 -0500 Subject: [ANN] docs-common/Makefile.common Message-ID: <20050628212841.210c929b.Tommy.Reynolds@MegaCoder.com> Ahoy, Fellow Dockers! To increase the maintainability of the document build process, the Steering Committee has decided to make a significant change to the Makefile's used to construct each document. A new file "docs-common/Makefile.common" has been created and _all_ of the default make(1) targets and rules have been moved to that file. Now, a document's local Makefile is very short and only needs to define some boilerplate macros, plus the all-important DOCNAME macro. Armed with this information, and including the "../docs-common/Makefile.common" file, you will be ready to generate HTML's, PDF's, tarballs, and however else it is decided to package our documents. To see this in action, update your "docs-common" directory and then look at the "Makefile" in the "example-tutorial" project. I hope this change will insulate the individual document files from future mangling as we add new capabilities. Technical note #1: Since all the make targets defined in "Makefile.common" use double-colon (::) definitions, adding any additional steps needed for an unusual document is easy. In your local "Makefile", add your own target, such as "${DOCNAME}/index.html::" followed by your own rules. For an example, again look at the example tutorial. Technical note #2: In the local "Makefile", the XMLFILE macro still references the main XML file for your document -- the file that contains the DOCTYPE declaration. If your document includes any external files, just list their names in the XMLEXTRAFILES macro so the dependencies will all work out. As always, if you have questions, feel free to submit them to this list and I'll explain or apologize as necessary ;-) Tommy -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 189 bytes Desc: not available URL: From tsekine at sdri.co.jp Wed Jun 29 07:50:06 2005 From: tsekine at sdri.co.jp (SEKINE tatz Tatsuo) Date: Wed, 29 Jun 2005 17:50:06 +1000 (EST) Subject: Self-Introduction: Tatsuo Sekine Message-ID: <20050629.175006.71077626.tsekine@sdri.co.jp> Hi all, this is my self introduction: Full legal name: Tatsuo Sekine (In our culture, surname is coming first. So, I normally write my name "SEKINE Tatsuo", however, my name is "Tatsuo Sekine" in English :-P) City, Country: Sydney, Australia (temporary: I'm living in Sydney until this November) /Yokohama, Japan Profession or Student status: Student (temporary: I'm studying English now) /IT engineer/IT writer Company or School: a private English language school /System Design & Research Institute Co., Ltd. Your goals in the Fedora Project: o What do you want to write about? First of all, my first language is Japanese, so I'd like to translate documents. If I can feel confidence about my English, I'd like to write about yum repository construction. o What other documentation do you want to see published? Now, I have no idea. o Do you want to edit for grammar/writing and/or technical accuracy? Yes. Technical accuracy is really important, though my grammar/writing is sometime terrible. Usually, I trace the document step by step when I am translating. At that time, I notice technical inaccuracy/ambiguity. Actually, I've reported some bugs as the result of translation. o Anything else special? I (and some other) am really interested in the translations. (So, I'll join fedora-trans-list later.) Historical qualifications: o What other projects or writing have you worked on in the past? I'm a member of Fedora JP project where we translate and publish a lots of document. I'm currently translating the RELEASE-NOTES. Moreover, I have committed RH/Fedora via the bugzilla(#89292,#126940 and so on). Apart from Fedora related project, I'm also a member of Linux JM project where we translate Linux man pages. In addition to that, the one of my job is technical writing, so I have written some books for Linux administration and shell scripting. Additionally, I was a member of Kondara Project which was also free distribution project. Unfortunately, that project have been discontinued for some reasons. o What level and type of computer skills do you have? Novice kernel hacking, expert RPM packaging and etc. For more detail, please see my profile on SF.net: http://sourceforge.net/people/viewprofile.php?user_id=4153 o What other skills do you have that might be applicable? User interface design, other so-called soft skills (people skills), programming, etc. I have not written programme for a long time, however, I hope that I can do it still now. o What makes you an excellent match for the project? I'm not sure. * GPG KEYID and fingerprint: $ gpg --fingerprint 24DBA1FC pub 1024D/24DBA1FC 2003-01-09 Key fingerprint = 18FE E474 7399 3E74 FCE4 F36E C26C 9AD7 24DB A1FC uid SEKINE Tatsuo sub 1024g/70477FE4 2003-01-09 -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 189 bytes Desc: not available URL: From ghenry at suretecsystems.com Wed Jun 29 09:12:55 2005 From: ghenry at suretecsystems.com (Gavin Henry) Date: Wed, 29 Jun 2005 10:12:55 +0100 (BST) Subject: Self-Introduction: Tatsuo Sekine In-Reply-To: <20050629.175006.71077626.tsekine@sdri.co.jp> References: <20050629.175006.71077626.tsekine@sdri.co.jp> Message-ID: <64600.193.195.148.66.1120036375.squirrel@webmail.suretecsystems.com> > Hi all, > > this is my self introduction: > Added to Contributors page. -- Kind Regards, Gavin Henry. Managing Director. T +44 (0) 1224 279484 M +44 (0) 7930 323266 F +44 (0) 1224 742001 E ghenry at suretecsystems.com Open Source. Open Solutions(tm). http://www.suretecsystems.com/ From Tommy.Reynolds at MegaCoder.com Wed Jun 29 13:46:55 2005 From: Tommy.Reynolds at MegaCoder.com (Tommy Reynolds) Date: Wed, 29 Jun 2005 08:46:55 -0500 Subject: Self-Introduction: Tatsuo Sekine In-Reply-To: <20050629.175006.71077626.tsekine@sdri.co.jp> References: <20050629.175006.71077626.tsekine@sdri.co.jp> Message-ID: <20050629084655.1a09de22.Tommy.Reynolds@MegaCoder.com> Uttered SEKINE "tatz" Tatsuo , spake thus: > Hi all, Greetings, Tatsuosan! We welcome you into the Fedora Docs Project, as a translator, as a techincal reviewer, and also in as many roles as you choose to participate in! > Full legal name: > Tatsuo Sekine > (In our culture, surname is coming first. So, I normally > write my name "SEKINE Tatsuo", however, my name is > "Tatsuo Sekine" in English :-P) I've taught some technical courses in Japan. Since I'm most comfortable at the Linux command line and use X11 to get lots of xterm's on my screen, I was given the nickname NOGUI. I hope that doesn't mean one-who-codes-with-a-banana-in-each-ear. > o What do you want to write about? > First of all, my first language is Japanese, so I'd like > to translate documents. If I can feel confidence about > my English, I'd like to write about yum repository > construction. Your English is several orders of magnitute above my Japanese, so do not be shy about contributing in either language. If some English text reads awkwardly, lots of us will be happy to patch it; what's important is getting the text typed in, so feel free to help out anywhere. > o Do you want to edit for grammar/writing and/or technical accuracy? > Yes. Technical accuracy is really important, though my > grammar/writing is sometime terrible. Mine too, and I'm a native English speaker ;-) The Fedora Docs Project will be excellent practical experience. Again, contribute anywhere, anytime. > Apart from Fedora related project, I'm also a member of > Linux JM project where we translate Linux man pages. In > addition to that, the one of my job is technical > writing, so I have written some books for Linux > administration and shell scripting. Great. Many folks in this project are mostly tech writer types and do not have strong programming skills. We are constantly coming up with shell or tools needs and another shell guy or admin will be helpful. > o What level and type of computer skills do you have? > Novice kernel hacking, expert RPM packaging and etc. Excellent! You seem good to have around. Thanks for volunteering! Cheers -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 189 bytes Desc: not available URL: From stickster at gmail.com Wed Jun 29 13:47:17 2005 From: stickster at gmail.com (Paul W. Frields) Date: Wed, 29 Jun 2005 09:47:17 -0400 Subject: OpenOffice.org update Message-ID: <1120052837.11868.22.camel@localhost.localdomain> Re: https://bugzilla.redhat.com/bugzilla/show_bug.cgi?id=158903 OpenOffice.org DocBook XML "save as" function now works as expected. Note that you need to have openoffice.org-javafilter package installed, else you will end up with an empty file saved, and/or an OO.o crash. Note also that if you try to open the saved .xml file, the import filtering is *not* working and you will lose all formatting information. You can simply save a native .odt (OpenDocument Text) format document, using that as your working copy until you are ready to export a copy for use in CVS. The only useful purpose I can see for using OO.o in this fashion is to make quick document sketches that use only
, , and <para>. There is probably plenty of other DocBook stuff that is well-implemented, but I haven't tried to suss it all out, and don't have any plans to do so. If there's anyone out there with the wealth of knowledge it would take to get working XSLT (and DocBook styles) for some of the more esoteric DocBook used by FDP, particularly admonitions and <variablelist>s, have at it! I'm not even sure how that would work, but I imagine OO.o must have functions to allow users to point to extra XSLT stuff just as it does styles. The upshot is that rank beginners who are not friendly with Emacs, vi, or any other more UNIX-y tools now have a shot at drafting docs with minimal pain. The resulting DocBook XML will be uncluttered and readily understandable by the author. The editor can now proceed to introduce the author to additional DocBook-ism. -- Paul W. Frields, RHCE http://paul.frields.org/ gpg fingerprint: 3DA6 A0AC 6D58 FEC4 0233 5906 ACDB C937 BD11 3717 Fedora Documentation Project: http://fedora.redhat.com/projects/docs/ -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: signature.asc Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 189 bytes Desc: This is a digitally signed message part URL: <http://listman.redhat.com/archives/fedora-docs-list/attachments/20050629/a3e1729f/attachment.sig> From jlaska at redhat.com Wed Jun 29 13:53:06 2005 From: jlaska at redhat.com (James Laska) Date: Wed, 29 Jun 2005 09:53:06 -0400 Subject: [ANN] docs-common/Makefile.common In-Reply-To: <20050628212841.210c929b.Tommy.Reynolds@MegaCoder.com> References: <20050628212841.210c929b.Tommy.Reynolds@MegaCoder.com> Message-ID: <1120053186.2999.33.camel@flatline.devel.redhat.com> Great work on the Makefile.common ... are there plans to add html-nochunks generation? Thanks, James Laska On Tue, 2005-06-28 at 21:28 -0500, Tommy Reynolds wrote: > Ahoy, Fellow Dockers! > > To increase the maintainability of the document build process, the > Steering Committee has decided to make a significant change to the > Makefile's used to construct each document. A new file > "docs-common/Makefile.common" has been created and _all_ of the > default make(1) targets and rules have been moved to that file. > > Now, a document's local Makefile is very short and only needs to > define some boilerplate macros, plus the all-important DOCNAME macro. > Armed with this information, and including the > "../docs-common/Makefile.common" file, you will be ready to generate > HTML's, PDF's, tarballs, and however else it is decided to package > our documents. > > To see this in action, update your "docs-common" directory and then > look at the "Makefile" in the "example-tutorial" project. > > I hope this change will insulate the individual document files from > future mangling as we add new capabilities. > > Technical note #1: > > Since all the make targets defined in "Makefile.common" use > double-colon (::) definitions, adding any additional steps needed for > an unusual document is easy. In your local "Makefile", add your own > target, such as "${DOCNAME}/index.html::" followed by your own rules. > For an example, again look at the example tutorial. > > Technical note #2: > > In the local "Makefile", the XMLFILE macro still references the main > XML file for your document -- the file that contains the DOCTYPE > declaration. If your document includes any external files, just list > their names in the XMLEXTRAFILES macro so the dependencies will all > work out. > > As always, if you have questions, feel free to submit them to this > list and I'll explain or apologize as necessary ;-) > > Tommy > -- > fedora-docs-list mailing list > fedora-docs-list at redhat.com > To unsubscribe: > http://www.redhat.com/mailman/listinfo/fedora-docs-list -- ========================================== James Laska -- jlaska at redhat.com Quality Engineering -- Red Hat, Inc. ========================================== From Tommy.Reynolds at MegaCoder.com Wed Jun 29 14:12:53 2005 From: Tommy.Reynolds at MegaCoder.com (Tommy Reynolds) Date: Wed, 29 Jun 2005 09:12:53 -0500 Subject: [ANN] docs-common/Makefile.common In-Reply-To: <1120053186.2999.33.camel@flatline.devel.redhat.com> References: <20050628212841.210c929b.Tommy.Reynolds@MegaCoder.com> <1120053186.2999.33.camel@flatline.devel.redhat.com> Message-ID: <20050629091253.634802c3.Tommy.Reynolds@MegaCoder.com> Uttered James Laska <jlaska at redhat.com>, spake thus: > Great work on the Makefile.common ... are there plans to add > html-nochunks generation? I'll look into it. Cheers -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 189 bytes Desc: not available URL: <http://listman.redhat.com/archives/fedora-docs-list/attachments/20050629/f3dca21e/attachment.sig> From stickster at gmail.com Wed Jun 29 14:18:01 2005 From: stickster at gmail.com (Paul W. Frields) Date: Wed, 29 Jun 2005 10:18:01 -0400 Subject: [ANN] docs-common/Makefile.common In-Reply-To: <1120053186.2999.33.camel@flatline.devel.redhat.com> References: <20050628212841.210c929b.Tommy.Reynolds@MegaCoder.com> <1120053186.2999.33.camel@flatline.devel.redhat.com> Message-ID: <1120054681.11868.25.camel@localhost.localdomain> On Wed, 2005-06-29 at 09:53 -0400, James Laska wrote: > Great work on the Makefile.common ... are there plans to add > html-nochunks generation? I made a few changes to the Makefile.common, and I think that should work now. The example-tutorial/Makefile has been updated as well. -- Paul W. Frields, RHCE http://paul.frields.org/ gpg fingerprint: 3DA6 A0AC 6D58 FEC4 0233 5906 ACDB C937 BD11 3717 Fedora Documentation Project: http://fedora.redhat.com/projects/docs/ -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: signature.asc Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 189 bytes Desc: This is a digitally signed message part URL: <http://listman.redhat.com/archives/fedora-docs-list/attachments/20050629/28b217ed/attachment.sig> From Tommy.Reynolds at MegaCoder.com Wed Jun 29 14:25:24 2005 From: Tommy.Reynolds at MegaCoder.com (Tommy Reynolds) Date: Wed, 29 Jun 2005 09:25:24 -0500 Subject: [ANN] docs-common/Makefile.common In-Reply-To: <1120054681.11868.25.camel@localhost.localdomain> References: <20050628212841.210c929b.Tommy.Reynolds@MegaCoder.com> <1120053186.2999.33.camel@flatline.devel.redhat.com> <1120054681.11868.25.camel@localhost.localdomain> Message-ID: <20050629092524.363fa070.Tommy.Reynolds@MegaCoder.com> Uttered "Paul W. Frields" <stickster at gmail.com>, spake thus: > On Wed, 2005-06-29 at 09:53 -0400, James Laska wrote: > > Great work on the Makefile.common ... are there plans to add > > html-nochunks generation? > I made a few changes to the Makefile.common, and I think that should > work now. The example-tutorial/Makefile has been updated as well. Now that's service! Can I send you a 15% tip? Cheers -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 189 bytes Desc: not available URL: <http://listman.redhat.com/archives/fedora-docs-list/attachments/20050629/561f965e/attachment.sig> From Tommy.Reynolds at MegaCoder.com Wed Jun 29 14:32:08 2005 From: Tommy.Reynolds at MegaCoder.com (Tommy Reynolds) Date: Wed, 29 Jun 2005 09:32:08 -0500 Subject: [ANN] docs-common/Makefile.common In-Reply-To: <1120054681.11868.25.camel@localhost.localdomain> References: <20050628212841.210c929b.Tommy.Reynolds@MegaCoder.com> <1120053186.2999.33.camel@flatline.devel.redhat.com> <1120054681.11868.25.camel@localhost.localdomain> Message-ID: <20050629093208.0b6f7658.Tommy.Reynolds@MegaCoder.com> Uttered "Paul W. Frields" <stickster at gmail.com>, spake thus: > I made a few changes to the Makefile.common, and I think that should > work now. The example-tutorial/Makefile has been updated as well. Paul, For "nochunks", where do the graphics and images go? Cheers -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 189 bytes Desc: not available URL: <http://listman.redhat.com/archives/fedora-docs-list/attachments/20050629/24ed08a2/attachment.sig> From mumumu at mumumu.org Wed Jun 29 14:33:19 2005 From: mumumu at mumumu.org (Yoshinari Takaoka) Date: Wed, 29 Jun 2005 23:33:19 +0900 Subject: Self-Introduction: Yoshinari Takaoka(a.k.a mumumu) Message-ID: <200506292333.24516.mumumu@mumumu.org> hi, all. yesterday ?i joined #fedora-docs(irc.freenode.net) and talked with some FDSCo members, im grateful to them for leading me here. here's my self introduction. ---- Full legal name: ? ? Yoshinari Takaoka City, Country: ? ? Tokyo, Japan. Profession or Student status: ? ? Software Developer. Company or School: ? ? Japan Systems Enginnering Co.Ltd. Your goals in the Fedora Project: What do you want to write about? ? ? ? ? ?i am working on fedora JP project(http://fedora.jp), fedora ?users ? ? and enthualists group in japan and aims at improving japanese ? ? environment and resources. therefore, i want to translate ? ? documentations published by fedora documentation project ? ? into japanese, and increase japanese resources about fedora. ? ? What other documentation do you want to see published? ? ? i want to contribute japanese specific faq about fedora. of course, ? ? i know there are fedora unofficial faq( and its japanese translation). ? ? if i find questions which is not in it, i want to contribute to it, too. Do you want to edit for grammar/writing and/or technical accuracy? ? ? yes. especially technical accuracy, because it takes a long time ? ? for me to write documentations in english. Anything else special? ? ? i want to contribute maintainance of fedora extras packages which ? ? is useful to japanese, for example kinput2, skkinput and so on. ? ? unfortunately, i dont have skill to do so....only translation now. Historical qualifications: What other projects or writing have you worked on in the past? ? ? I helped translating technical interview published on slashdot.org ? ? into japanese and now translating fedora-installation-guide. What level and type of computer skills do you have? ? ? Programming skill: java(Expert), php(intermediate), and python(novice). ? ? Web application development skill : Expert. ? ? Linux server administration skill : ?intermediate. ? ? translating and writing technical document : maybe, intermediate. What makes you an excellent match for the project? ? ? maybe, experience of translation, and endless curiosity. :-) GPG KEYID and fingerprint: mumumu at mu-hoe-narinari:10:35 p.m:~ > gpg --fingerprint ------------------------------- pub ? 1024D/9C1F362D 2005-06-29 ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ?fingerprint = 2600 7C9B 0FFE 1EB7 C8F4 ?F80A 04E6 EAEA 9C1F 362D uid ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ?Yoshinari Takaoka (a.k.a mumumu at IRC) <mumumu at mumumu.org> sub ? 2048g/3B2DCC0C 2005-06-29 Best regards. -- Yoshinari Takaoka(mumumu at IRC) reversethis -> {gro} {tod} {umumum} {ta} {umumum} -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 189 bytes Desc: not available URL: <http://listman.redhat.com/archives/fedora-docs-list/attachments/20050629/4df7341d/attachment.sig> From stickster at gmail.com Wed Jun 29 14:43:45 2005 From: stickster at gmail.com (Paul W. Frields) Date: Wed, 29 Jun 2005 10:43:45 -0400 Subject: [ANN] docs-common/Makefile.common In-Reply-To: <20050629093208.0b6f7658.Tommy.Reynolds@MegaCoder.com> References: <20050628212841.210c929b.Tommy.Reynolds@MegaCoder.com> <1120053186.2999.33.camel@flatline.devel.redhat.com> <1120054681.11868.25.camel@localhost.localdomain> <20050629093208.0b6f7658.Tommy.Reynolds@MegaCoder.com> Message-ID: <1120056226.11868.31.camel@localhost.localdomain> On Wed, 2005-06-29 at 09:32 -0500, Tommy Reynolds wrote: > Uttered "Paul W. Frields" <stickster at gmail.com>, spake thus: > > > I made a few changes to the Makefile.common, and I think that should > > work now. The example-tutorial/Makefile has been updated as well. > > Paul, > > For "nochunks", where do the graphics and images go? Whoops. Well, originally I was thinking to myself, "Self, maybe you should just leave that stuff out since it makes for, uh, more than one file." Then I thought better of it... now the images and CSS come into the current directory where they're expected. I don't see a big value in a "nochunks-tarball," but if you disagree there's no reason we couldn't have that target. -- Paul W. Frields, RHCE http://paul.frields.org/ gpg fingerprint: 3DA6 A0AC 6D58 FEC4 0233 5906 ACDB C937 BD11 3717 Fedora Documentation Project: http://fedora.redhat.com/projects/docs/ -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: signature.asc Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 189 bytes Desc: This is a digitally signed message part URL: <http://listman.redhat.com/archives/fedora-docs-list/attachments/20050629/90e2783b/attachment.sig> From Tommy.Reynolds at MegaCoder.com Wed Jun 29 14:50:19 2005 From: Tommy.Reynolds at MegaCoder.com (Tommy Reynolds) Date: Wed, 29 Jun 2005 09:50:19 -0500 Subject: Self-Introduction: Yoshinari Takaoka(a.k.a mumumu) In-Reply-To: <200506292333.24516.mumumu@mumumu.org> References: <200506292333.24516.mumumu@mumumu.org> Message-ID: <20050629095019.729d1e04.Tommy.Reynolds@MegaCoder.com> Uttered Yoshinari Takaoka <mumumu at mumumu.org>, spake thus: > hi, all. Welcome, Takaoka-san! > What level and type of computer skills do you have? > ? ? Programming skill: java(Expert), php(intermediate), and python(novice). > ? ? Web application development skill : Expert. > ? ? Linux server administration skill : ?intermediate. > ? ? translating and writing technical document : maybe, intermediate. Yahoo! A java expert! Just what we need to help with the PDF production problem. I have a project that you could help with. Our PDF generation is currently broken. One thing we would like to try to get the SAXON parser and the Apache FOP tool compiled using gcj into native code. Is that something you could take a look at? Cheers -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 189 bytes Desc: not available URL: <http://listman.redhat.com/archives/fedora-docs-list/attachments/20050629/5626f84e/attachment.sig> From stickster at gmail.com Wed Jun 29 14:54:40 2005 From: stickster at gmail.com (Paul W. Frields) Date: Wed, 29 Jun 2005 10:54:40 -0400 Subject: [ANN] docs-common/Makefile.common In-Reply-To: <1120056226.11868.31.camel@localhost.localdomain> References: <20050628212841.210c929b.Tommy.Reynolds@MegaCoder.com> <1120053186.2999.33.camel@flatline.devel.redhat.com> <1120054681.11868.25.camel@localhost.localdomain> <20050629093208.0b6f7658.Tommy.Reynolds@MegaCoder.com> <1120056226.11868.31.camel@localhost.localdomain> Message-ID: <1120056880.11868.34.camel@localhost.localdomain> On Wed, 2005-06-29 at 10:43 -0400, Paul W. Frields wrote: > On Wed, 2005-06-29 at 09:32 -0500, Tommy Reynolds wrote: > > Uttered "Paul W. Frields" <stickster at gmail.com>, spake thus: > > > > > I made a few changes to the Makefile.common, and I think that should > > > work now. The example-tutorial/Makefile has been updated as well. > > > > For "nochunks", where do the graphics and images go? > > Whoops. Well, originally I was thinking to myself, "Self, maybe you > should just leave that stuff out since it makes for, uh, more than one > file." Then I thought better of it... now the images and CSS come into > the current directory where they're expected. I don't see a big value > in a "nochunks-tarball," but if you disagree there's no reason we > couldn't have that target. By the way, the XSL has been fixed to embed the legalnotice in the nochunks version rather than creating an outboard file. While someone shipping a document without images or CSS doesn't "break" the document per se, if it goes without the legalnotice intact, that could be considered an actual problem. -- Paul W. Frields, RHCE http://paul.frields.org/ gpg fingerprint: 3DA6 A0AC 6D58 FEC4 0233 5906 ACDB C937 BD11 3717 Fedora Documentation Project: http://fedora.redhat.com/projects/docs/ -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: signature.asc Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 189 bytes Desc: This is a digitally signed message part URL: <http://listman.redhat.com/archives/fedora-docs-list/attachments/20050629/64b2f7f8/attachment.sig> From Tommy.Reynolds at MegaCoder.com Wed Jun 29 14:54:12 2005 From: Tommy.Reynolds at MegaCoder.com (Tommy Reynolds) Date: Wed, 29 Jun 2005 09:54:12 -0500 Subject: [ANN] docs-common/Makefile.common In-Reply-To: <1120056226.11868.31.camel@localhost.localdomain> References: <20050628212841.210c929b.Tommy.Reynolds@MegaCoder.com> <1120053186.2999.33.camel@flatline.devel.redhat.com> <1120054681.11868.25.camel@localhost.localdomain> <20050629093208.0b6f7658.Tommy.Reynolds@MegaCoder.com> <1120056226.11868.31.camel@localhost.localdomain> Message-ID: <20050629095412.345699d6.Tommy.Reynolds@MegaCoder.com> Uttered "Paul W. Frields" <stickster at gmail.com>, spake thus: > > For "nochunks", where do the graphics and images go? > Whoops. Well, originally I was thinking to myself, "Self, maybe you > should just leave that stuff out since it makes for, uh, more than one > file." Then I thought better of it... now the images and CSS come into > the current directory where they're expected. I don't see a big value > in a "nochunks-tarball," but if you disagree there's no reason we > couldn't have that target. Crap, now you've planted a seed and someone will want this feature ;-) Naw, I wouldn't bother making a no-chunk tarball target unless someone wanted to make my next house payment. Good, quick, work! -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 189 bytes Desc: not available URL: <http://listman.redhat.com/archives/fedora-docs-list/attachments/20050629/21c0a6dd/attachment.sig> From twaugh at redhat.com Wed Jun 29 14:56:53 2005 From: twaugh at redhat.com (Tim Waugh) Date: Wed, 29 Jun 2005 15:56:53 +0100 Subject: Saxon? In-Reply-To: <20050617093831.GE2670@redhat.com> References: <20050616160644.GA2670@redhat.com> <1118946995.5926.39.camel@erato.phig.org> <20050616201857.GB2670@redhat.com> <20050616170543.7ed8bc3e.Tommy.Reynolds@MegaCoder.com> <20050617093831.GE2670@redhat.com> Message-ID: <20050629145653.GT2911@redhat.com> On Fri, Jun 17, 2005 at 10:38:31AM +0100, Tim Waugh wrote: > I've put the PDF I got here: > > http://cyberelk.net/tim/data/tmp/fedora-install-guide-en.pdf Hmm, seems like no-one even looked at this. Guess we can't be all *that* interested in getting PDF output working.. Tim. */ -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 189 bytes Desc: not available URL: <http://listman.redhat.com/archives/fedora-docs-list/attachments/20050629/4e272924/attachment.sig> From ghenry at suretecsystems.com Wed Jun 29 14:56:57 2005 From: ghenry at suretecsystems.com (Gavin Henry) Date: Wed, 29 Jun 2005 15:56:57 +0100 (BST) Subject: Self-Introduction: Yoshinari Takaoka(a.k.a mumumu) In-Reply-To: <200506292333.24516.mumumu@mumumu.org> References: <200506292333.24516.mumumu@mumumu.org> Message-ID: <37081.193.195.148.66.1120057017.squirrel@webmail.suretecsystems.com> <quote who="Yoshinari Takaoka"> > hi, all. > > yesterday i joined #fedora-docs(irc.freenode.net) and talked with some > FDSCo members, im grateful to them for leading me here. > > here's my self introduction. Added: http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/DocsProject/Contributors > ---- > > Full legal name: > Yoshinari Takaoka > > City, Country: > Tokyo, Japan. > > Profession or Student status: > Software Developer. > > Company or School: > Japan Systems Enginnering Co.Ltd. > > Your goals in the Fedora Project: > > What do you want to write about? > > i am working on fedora JP project(http://fedora.jp), fedora users > and enthualists group in japan and aims at improving japanese > environment and resources. therefore, i want to translate > documentations published by fedora documentation project > into japanese, and increase japanese resources about fedora. > > What other documentation do you want to see published? > > i want to contribute japanese specific faq about fedora. of course, > i know there are fedora unofficial faq( and its japanese translation). > if i find questions which is not in it, i want to contribute to it, > too. > > Do you want to edit for grammar/writing and/or technical accuracy? > yes. especially technical accuracy, because it takes a long time > for me to write documentations in english. > > Anything else special? > i want to contribute maintainance of fedora extras packages which > is useful to japanese, for example kinput2, skkinput and so on. > unfortunately, i dont have skill to do so....only translation now. > > Historical qualifications: > > What other projects or writing have you worked on in the past? > I helped translating technical interview published on slashdot.org > into japanese and now translating fedora-installation-guide. > > What level and type of computer skills do you have? > Programming skill: java(Expert), php(intermediate), and > python(novice). > Web application development skill : Expert. > Linux server administration skill : intermediate. > translating and writing technical document : maybe, intermediate. > > What makes you an excellent match for the project? > maybe, experience of translation, and endless curiosity. :-) > > GPG KEYID and fingerprint: > mumumu at mu-hoe-narinari:10:35 p.m:~ > gpg --fingerprint > ------------------------------- > pub 1024D/9C1F362D 2005-06-29 > fingerprint = 2600 7C9B 0FFE 1EB7 C8F4 F80A 04E6 EAEA > 9C1F > 362D > uid Yoshinari Takaoka (a.k.a mumumu at IRC) > <mumumu at mumumu.org> > sub 2048g/3B2DCC0C 2005-06-29 > > Best regards. > > -- > Yoshinari Takaoka(mumumu at IRC) > reversethis -> {gro} {tod} {umumum} {ta} {umumum} > -- > fedora-docs-list mailing list > fedora-docs-list at redhat.com > To unsubscribe: > http://www.redhat.com/mailman/listinfo/fedora-docs-list From Tommy.Reynolds at MegaCoder.com Wed Jun 29 15:09:05 2005 From: Tommy.Reynolds at MegaCoder.com (Tommy Reynolds) Date: Wed, 29 Jun 2005 10:09:05 -0500 Subject: Saxon? In-Reply-To: <20050629145653.GT2911@redhat.com> References: <20050616160644.GA2670@redhat.com> <1118946995.5926.39.camel@erato.phig.org> <20050616201857.GB2670@redhat.com> <20050616170543.7ed8bc3e.Tommy.Reynolds@MegaCoder.com> <20050617093831.GE2670@redhat.com> <20050629145653.GT2911@redhat.com> Message-ID: <20050629100905.4c6090cc.Tommy.Reynolds@MegaCoder.com> Uttered Tim Waugh <twaugh at redhat.com>, spake thus: > On Fri, Jun 17, 2005 at 10:38:31AM +0100, Tim Waugh wrote: > > I've put the PDF I got here: > > http://cyberelk.net/tim/data/tmp/fedora-install-guide-en.pdf > Hmm, seems like no-one even looked at this. Sorry, I've been attending some classes, meetings, travelling and the like. I lost my pencil and the dog ate my homework. (I just missed it, sorry) Overall this looks promising. There appear to be some font metric problems and the no-pictures issue mentioned earlier. I apologize if I sounded overly harsh about xmlroff but I still believe that it isn't ready for prime time yet, just like the FOP tool isn't. Please continue to dog this tool so we can look at it again when these issues are resolved. I'm not married to FOP, it's just the closest thing to a working tool I've seen that isn't a commercial project. Cheers! -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 189 bytes Desc: not available URL: <http://listman.redhat.com/archives/fedora-docs-list/attachments/20050629/39c756ae/attachment.sig> From tfox at redhat.com Wed Jun 29 19:17:32 2005 From: tfox at redhat.com (Tammy Fox) Date: Wed, 29 Jun 2005 15:17:32 -0400 Subject: OpenOffice.org update In-Reply-To: <1120052837.11868.22.camel@localhost.localdomain> References: <1120052837.11868.22.camel@localhost.localdomain> Message-ID: <1120072652.7013.9.camel@localhost.localdomain> This is great news. I ask for DocBook XML format for magazine articles, but some writers aren't that savvy, so they send me OO.org Writer files. I'll play around with the export and let you know how well it works. Tammy On Wed, 2005-06-29 at 09:47 -0400, Paul W. Frields wrote: > Re: https://bugzilla.redhat.com/bugzilla/show_bug.cgi?id=158903 > > OpenOffice.org DocBook XML "save as" function now works as expected. > Note that you need to have openoffice.org-javafilter package installed, > else you will end up with an empty file saved, and/or an OO.o crash. > > Note also that if you try to open the saved .xml file, the import > filtering is *not* working and you will lose all formatting information. > You can simply save a native .odt (OpenDocument Text) format document, > using that as your working copy until you are ready to export a copy for > use in CVS. > > The only useful purpose I can see for using OO.o in this fashion is to > make quick document sketches that use only <section>, <title>, and > <para>. There is probably plenty of other DocBook stuff that is > well-implemented, but I haven't tried to suss it all out, and don't have > any plans to do so. If there's anyone out there with the wealth of > knowledge it would take to get working XSLT (and DocBook styles) for > some of the more esoteric DocBook used by FDP, particularly admonitions > and <variablelist>s, have at it! I'm not even sure how that would work, > but I imagine OO.o must have functions to allow users to point to extra > XSLT stuff just as it does styles. > > The upshot is that rank beginners who are not friendly with Emacs, vi, > or any other more UNIX-y tools now have a shot at drafting docs with > minimal pain. The resulting DocBook XML will be uncluttered and readily > understandable by the author. The editor can now proceed to introduce > the author to additional DocBook-ism. > > -- > fedora-docs-list mailing list > fedora-docs-list at redhat.com > To unsubscribe: > http://www.redhat.com/mailman/listinfo/fedora-docs-list From kwade at redhat.com Thu Jun 30 01:16:10 2005 From: kwade at redhat.com (Karsten Wade) Date: Wed, 29 Jun 2005 18:16:10 -0700 Subject: [ANN] docs-common/Makefile.common In-Reply-To: <1120056880.11868.34.camel@localhost.localdomain> References: <20050628212841.210c929b.Tommy.Reynolds@MegaCoder.com> <1120053186.2999.33.camel@flatline.devel.redhat.com> <1120054681.11868.25.camel@localhost.localdomain> <20050629093208.0b6f7658.Tommy.Reynolds@MegaCoder.com> <1120056226.11868.31.camel@localhost.localdomain> <1120056880.11868.34.camel@localhost.localdomain> Message-ID: <1120094171.7188.46.camel@erato.phig.org> On Wed, 2005-06-29 at 10:54 -0400, Paul W. Frields wrote: > > By the way, the XSL has been fixed to embed the legalnotice in the > nochunks version rather than creating an outboard file. While someone > shipping a document without images or CSS doesn't "break" the document > per se, if it goes without the legalnotice intact, that could be > considered an actual problem. I'll have to get this into the example-tutorial (perhaps a no-chunks version?), but the legalnotice appearing at the top of a no-chunks is why I created all the weirdness around how the legalnotice is used. legalnotice-en.xml calls in legalnotice-content-en.xml If you use the standard legalnotice-en.xml and no-chunks, the entire notice is displayed at the very top of the document above the table of contents. The alternative is to use (a version of?) legalnotice-relnotes-en.xml. This file references an <appendix> that contains the full text, as is common with source code and others -- you don't include a copy of the GPL in the header of every file, you refer to LICENSE. Then you make an <appendix> and use that to pull in legalnotice-content- en.xml. -- Karsten Wade, RHCE * Sr. Tech Writer * http://people.redhat.com/kwade/ gpg fingerprint: 2680 DBFD D968 3141 0115 5F1B D992 0E06 AD0E 0C41 Red Hat SELinux Guide http://www.redhat.com/docs/manuals/enterprise/RHEL-4-Manual/selinux-guide/ -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: signature.asc Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 189 bytes Desc: This is a digitally signed message part URL: <http://listman.redhat.com/archives/fedora-docs-list/attachments/20050629/9140b65c/attachment.sig> From Tommy.Reynolds at MegaCoder.com Thu Jun 30 02:02:20 2005 From: Tommy.Reynolds at MegaCoder.com (Tommy Reynolds) Date: Wed, 29 Jun 2005 21:02:20 -0500 Subject: [ANN] docs-common/Makefile.common In-Reply-To: <1120094171.7188.46.camel@erato.phig.org> References: <20050628212841.210c929b.Tommy.Reynolds@MegaCoder.com> <1120053186.2999.33.camel@flatline.devel.redhat.com> <1120054681.11868.25.camel@localhost.localdomain> <20050629093208.0b6f7658.Tommy.Reynolds@MegaCoder.com> <1120056226.11868.31.camel@localhost.localdomain> <1120056880.11868.34.camel@localhost.localdomain> <1120094171.7188.46.camel@erato.phig.org> Message-ID: <20050629210220.025f97db.Tommy.Reynolds@MegaCoder.com> Uttered Karsten Wade <kwade at redhat.com>, spake thus: > Then you make an <appendix> and use that to pull in legalnotice-content- > en.xml. I'm a little concerned over the idea of using an appendix. On the government contracts I've worked on, any material in an appendix is not legally (at least, not contractually) part of that document. I've never seen any document with a legal notice in an appendix -- only as front matter. Can we get a webink on this? Cheers -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 189 bytes Desc: not available URL: <http://listman.redhat.com/archives/fedora-docs-list/attachments/20050629/26b9853d/attachment.sig> From kwade at redhat.com Thu Jun 30 08:07:28 2005 From: kwade at redhat.com (Karsten Wade) Date: Thu, 30 Jun 2005 01:07:28 -0700 Subject: [ANN] docs-common/Makefile.common In-Reply-To: <20050629210220.025f97db.Tommy.Reynolds@MegaCoder.com> References: <20050628212841.210c929b.Tommy.Reynolds@MegaCoder.com> <1120053186.2999.33.camel@flatline.devel.redhat.com> <1120054681.11868.25.camel@localhost.localdomain> <20050629093208.0b6f7658.Tommy.Reynolds@MegaCoder.com> <1120056226.11868.31.camel@localhost.localdomain> <1120056880.11868.34.camel@localhost.localdomain> <1120094171.7188.46.camel@erato.phig.org> <20050629210220.025f97db.Tommy.Reynolds@MegaCoder.com> Message-ID: <1120118848.7188.59.camel@erato.phig.org> On Wed, 2005-06-29 at 21:02 -0500, Tommy Reynolds wrote: > Uttered Karsten Wade <kwade at redhat.com>, spake thus: > > > Then you make an <appendix> and use that to pull in legalnotice-content- > > en.xml. > > I'm a little concerned over the idea of using an appendix. On the > government contracts I've worked on, any material in an appendix is > not legally (at least, not contractually) part of that document. > I've never seen any document with a legal notice in an appendix -- > only as front matter. Can we get a webink on this? We could, but it would be easier if we solved it ourselves. This is probably best handled in XSL, the solution being to move the legalnotice to appear after the ToC in no-chunks. Or is that front enough? How do your concerns relate to usage of the GPL, the LICENSE document, and source code? If not an appendix, how about a first or final <section>? - Karsten -- Karsten Wade, RHCE * Sr. Tech Writer * http://people.redhat.com/kwade/ gpg fingerprint: 2680 DBFD D968 3141 0115 5F1B D992 0E06 AD0E 0C41 Red Hat SELinux Guide http://www.redhat.com/docs/manuals/enterprise/RHEL-4-Manual/selinux-guide/ -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: signature.asc Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 189 bytes Desc: This is a digitally signed message part URL: <http://listman.redhat.com/archives/fedora-docs-list/attachments/20050630/bd210666/attachment.sig> From stickster at gmail.com Thu Jun 30 11:49:30 2005 From: stickster at gmail.com (Paul W. Frields) Date: Thu, 30 Jun 2005 07:49:30 -0400 Subject: [ANN] docs-common/Makefile.common In-Reply-To: <1120094171.7188.46.camel@erato.phig.org> References: <20050628212841.210c929b.Tommy.Reynolds@MegaCoder.com> <1120053186.2999.33.camel@flatline.devel.redhat.com> <1120054681.11868.25.camel@localhost.localdomain> <20050629093208.0b6f7658.Tommy.Reynolds@MegaCoder.com> <1120056226.11868.31.camel@localhost.localdomain> <1120056880.11868.34.camel@localhost.localdomain> <1120094171.7188.46.camel@erato.phig.org> Message-ID: <1120132171.2891.9.camel@localhost.localdomain> On Wed, 2005-06-29 at 18:16 -0700, Karsten Wade wrote: > On Wed, 2005-06-29 at 10:54 -0400, Paul W. Frields wrote: > > > > > By the way, the XSL has been fixed to embed the legalnotice in the > > nochunks version rather than creating an outboard file. While someone > > shipping a document without images or CSS doesn't "break" the document > > per se, if it goes without the legalnotice intact, that could be > > considered an actual problem. > > I'll have to get this into the example-tutorial (perhaps a no-chunks > version?), but the legalnotice appearing at the top of a no-chunks is > why I created all the weirdness around how the legalnotice is used. > > legalnotice-en.xml calls in legalnotice-content-en.xml > > If you use the standard legalnotice-en.xml and no-chunks, the entire > notice is displayed at the very top of the document above the table of > contents. Hmm, I tested the nochunking on my system before I made any XSL changes, and the legal notice still built as an added file in ./${DOCNAME} . Can you explain how the system is supposed to work for XSL(T) idiots so that I can understand where I went wrong? Sorry if I've goofed this up; here are the revisions in case someone wants to see what regression I caused. html-common.xsl: 1.8 -> 1.9 main-html.xsl: 1.4 -> 1.5 main-html-nochunks: 1.1 -> 1.2 On my local copy of the repository, I reverted these XSL files, to see if I could reproduce the behavior. Using the current docs-common/Makefile.common, 'make html-nochunks' indeed breaks the legalnotice off to a separate file. With my changes of yesterday restored, it works correctly, embedding the legalnotice in the $DOCNAME.html file. Any guidance would be appreciated, especially if it helps me understand this XSL stuff better. -- Paul W. Frields, RHCE http://paul.frields.org/ gpg fingerprint: 3DA6 A0AC 6D58 FEC4 0233 5906 ACDB C937 BD11 3717 Fedora Documentation Project: http://fedora.redhat.com/projects/docs/ -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: signature.asc Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 189 bytes Desc: This is a digitally signed message part URL: <http://listman.redhat.com/archives/fedora-docs-list/attachments/20050630/ad74b4b8/attachment.sig> From Tommy.Reynolds at MegaCoder.com Thu Jun 30 13:55:18 2005 From: Tommy.Reynolds at MegaCoder.com (Tommy Reynolds) Date: Thu, 30 Jun 2005 08:55:18 -0500 Subject: [ANN] docs-common/Makefile.common In-Reply-To: <1120118848.7188.59.camel@erato.phig.org> References: <20050628212841.210c929b.Tommy.Reynolds@MegaCoder.com> <1120053186.2999.33.camel@flatline.devel.redhat.com> <1120054681.11868.25.camel@localhost.localdomain> <20050629093208.0b6f7658.Tommy.Reynolds@MegaCoder.com> <1120056226.11868.31.camel@localhost.localdomain> <1120056880.11868.34.camel@localhost.localdomain> <1120094171.7188.46.camel@erato.phig.org> <20050629210220.025f97db.Tommy.Reynolds@MegaCoder.com> <1120118848.7188.59.camel@erato.phig.org> Message-ID: <20050630085518.49727bba.Tommy.Reynolds@MegaCoder.com> Uttered Karsten Wade <kwade at redhat.com>, spake thus: > This is probably best handled in XSL, the solution being to move the > legalnotice to appear after the ToC in no-chunks. Or is that front > enough? I think immediately after the ToC would be ideal. Nobody reads that anyway ;-) Cheers -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 189 bytes Desc: not available URL: <http://listman.redhat.com/archives/fedora-docs-list/attachments/20050630/e97e7d8e/attachment.sig> From kwade at redhat.com Thu Jun 30 19:02:33 2005 From: kwade at redhat.com (Karsten Wade) Date: Thu, 30 Jun 2005 12:02:33 -0700 Subject: Self-Introduction: Tatsuo Sekine In-Reply-To: <20050629084655.1a09de22.Tommy.Reynolds@MegaCoder.com> References: <20050629.175006.71077626.tsekine@sdri.co.jp> <20050629084655.1a09de22.Tommy.Reynolds@MegaCoder.com> Message-ID: <1120158153.7188.88.camel@erato.phig.org> On Wed, 2005-06-29 at 08:46 -0500, Tommy Reynolds wrote: > > o What do you want to write about? > > First of all, my first language is Japanese, so I'd like > > to translate documents. If I can feel confidence about > > my English, I'd like to write about yum repository > > construction. > > Your English is several orders of magnitute above my Japanese, so do > not be shy about contributing in either language. If some English text > reads awkwardly, lots of us will be happy to patch it; what's > important is getting the text typed in, so feel free to help out > anywhere. Would it be nice for the translation process work both directions. We could be able to take documentation in any language and translate it, to include English translation. To do this requires both a writer and editor who read the source language. Ideally one or both is able to use our tools effectively. I'm seeing perhaps enough Japanese speakers interested in writing in Japanese as the source language. If you want to try, you'll be forging the path, but we'll help you be successful. :) - Karsten -- Karsten Wade, RHCE * Sr. Tech Writer * http://people.redhat.com/kwade/ gpg fingerprint: 2680 DBFD D968 3141 0115 5F1B D992 0E06 AD0E 0C41 Red Hat SELinux Guide http://www.redhat.com/docs/manuals/enterprise/RHEL-4-Manual/selinux-guide/ -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: signature.asc Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 189 bytes Desc: This is a digitally signed message part URL: <http://listman.redhat.com/archives/fedora-docs-list/attachments/20050630/9def6f06/attachment.sig> From admin at buddhalinux.com Thu Jun 30 23:45:37 2005 From: admin at buddhalinux.com (Thomas Jones) Date: Thu, 30 Jun 2005 18:45:37 -0500 Subject: Back from my hiatus Message-ID: <42C48421.7060904@buddhalinux.com> Hello all, Sorry to the fedora project for the inconvenience of my quick retreat. Real-world issues needed my attention. It seems that the issues are abated and things are returning to a normal status(whatever that may be). However, I did find the time to devote to researching and begin writing meaningful parts of the "Securing Filesystems" documentation. It is coming together rather nicely if I do say so myself ---- grammar not included. ;) Again, I am sorry. I will be leaving the week of the 11th to go to Chicago for some training but will return the week thereafter. Figured I'd give a heads-up this time. ;) Cheers, Thomas