From sundaram at fedoraproject.org Thu Aug 3 15:20:54 2006 From: sundaram at fedoraproject.org (Rahul) Date: Thu, 03 Aug 2006 20:50:54 +0530 Subject: Suggestions for system home page In-Reply-To: <44C8F1BE.3000602@glezos.com> References: <44C7B290.80900@glezos.com> <44C8E4CE.10708@fedoraproject.org> <44C8F1BE.3000602@glezos.com> Message-ID: <44D21456.2070603@fedoraproject.org> Dimitris Glezos wrote: > O/H Rahul ??????: >> Dimitris Glezos wrote: >>> OK, I'll throw yet another idea on the table here. :) >>> >>> I sat back and thought a bit about the default home page of the browser, >>> served at file:///usr/share/doc/HTML/index.html. I feel it isn't really >>> what the users should see as a system home page. >>> >>> What we should aim is a page that feels like "home", something >>> welcoming, a collection of useful information for the desktop. > > I prepared a draft picture of what I have in mind. You can see it here: > > http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/DimitrisGlezos/SystemHomepage > Would we able to create this page from dockbook using a suitable stylesheet? Rahul From stickster at gmail.com Thu Aug 3 15:48:20 2006 From: stickster at gmail.com (Paul W. Frields) Date: Thu, 03 Aug 2006 11:48:20 -0400 Subject: Suggestions for system home page In-Reply-To: <44D21456.2070603@fedoraproject.org> References: <44C7B290.80900@glezos.com> <44C8E4CE.10708@fedoraproject.org> <44C8F1BE.3000602@glezos.com> <44D21456.2070603@fedoraproject.org> Message-ID: <1154620100.882.27.camel@localhost.localdomain> On Thu, 2006-08-03 at 20:50 +0530, Rahul wrote: > Dimitris Glezos wrote: > > O/H Rahul ??????: > >> Dimitris Glezos wrote: > >>> OK, I'll throw yet another idea on the table here. :) > >>> > >>> I sat back and thought a bit about the default home page of the browser, > >>> served at file:///usr/share/doc/HTML/index.html. I feel it isn't really > >>> what the users should see as a system home page. > >>> > >>> What we should aim is a page that feels like "home", something > >>> welcoming, a collection of useful information for the desktop. > > > > I prepared a draft picture of what I have in mind. You can see it here: > > > > http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/DimitrisGlezos/SystemHomepage > > > > Would we able to create this page from dockbook using a suitable stylesheet? The layout, sure. The content could probably just be a separate file in the release-notes module, which the translators could handle alongside everything else. None of that is as difficult or important as actually getting content to back up the sections alluded to on that mockup page. The antecedent Getting Started Guide, Desktop User Guide, and Administration Guide do not exist in a publication- or reference-ready condition at this point. Hello, Red Hat Content Services? When and how will the docs be freed? We are ready to discuss and work with you... -- Paul W. Frields, RHCE http://paul.frields.org/ gpg fingerprint: 3DA6 A0AC 6D58 FEC4 0233 5906 ACDB C937 BD11 3717 Fedora Project Board: http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Board Fedora Docs Project: http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/DocsProject -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: signature.asc Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 189 bytes Desc: This is a digitally signed message part URL: From journo_bouy at hotmail.co.uk Fri Aug 4 10:36:38 2006 From: journo_bouy at hotmail.co.uk (Adam Moreland) Date: Fri, 04 Aug 2006 10:36:38 +0000 Subject: FC6 Install Guide Message-ID: Can i ask where we are on the FC6 Install GUide. I did not hear anything back from the list about this, and want to know if this is still going ahead, and if an editor/writer is still neded. If i am still required, can i have some ideas where i need to start, and whom else is working on the project. Many Thanks, Mr Adam L Moreland (MAniX) | Registered Linux User: #417406 BA (Hons) Media Studies, 2nd Year, UoN WEB: http://www.manix-place.co.uk BLOG:http://www.2welshmen-and-a-sheep.co.uk **** System: Pentium 4 SKT478 2.8GHz Precott, AMD Athlon XP-M 2800+ | GPG Key: AC230C32 **** pub 1024D/AC230C32 2006-05-21 Key fingerprint = 14F4 50F5 806C 25A5 B33C C2BF 982C 87B7 AC23 0C32 uid Adam Moreland (MAniX) sub 2048g/A471FCE7 2006-05-21 **** _________________________________________________________________ The new Windows Live Toolbar helps you guard against viruses http://toolbar.live.com/?mkt=en-gb From sundaram at fedoraproject.org Fri Aug 4 10:54:40 2006 From: sundaram at fedoraproject.org (Rahul) Date: Fri, 04 Aug 2006 16:24:40 +0530 Subject: FC6 Install Guide In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <44D32770.2090705@fedoraproject.org> Adam Moreland wrote: > Can i ask where we are on the FC6 Install GUide. I did not hear anything > back from the list about this, and want to know if this is still going > ahead, and if an editor/writer is still neded. If i am still required, > can i have some ideas where i need to start, and whom else is working on > the project. > Noone has done any work so far. If you want to, go right ahead and do it. What you would need to do is pull out the current installation guide from cvs and start modifying it. Post the HTML versions as links for feedback as we progress. I will send in feedback and content. Rahul From stickster at gmail.com Fri Aug 4 12:46:39 2006 From: stickster at gmail.com (Paul W. Frields) Date: Fri, 04 Aug 2006 08:46:39 -0400 Subject: Fedora FAQs in Docs? In-Reply-To: <1154189122.28960.173.camel@erato.phig.org> References: <44C6D86F.4@glezos.com> <1153932185.29375.219.camel@erato.phig.org> <44C7A62B.4020103@glezos.com> <1153935789.29375.226.camel@erato.phig.org> <44C7B052.1080804@glezos.com> <1154189122.28960.173.camel@erato.phig.org> Message-ID: <1154695599.26088.12.camel@localhost.localdomain> On Sat, 2006-07-29 at 09:05 -0700, Karsten Wade wrote: > On Wed, 2006-07-26 at 19:11 +0100, Dimitris Glezos wrote: > > O/H Karsten Wade ??????: > > > > I think the idea of including it in fedora-release-note would be as a > > > separate HTML file, *not* as part of the release note HTML itself. > > > > Sorry Karsten, didn't realize that you meant "directly into the release > > notes" *package*. > > Yes, sorry, this package is new. We have had a CVS repository for a > while, but the output ended up in the fedora-release package. We > (meaning Paul W. Frield with the support of Jesse Keating) have created > a new fedora-release-notes package. > > This means we can issue updates for content and translation. This was > harder to do with the fedora-release package. > > > I believe translators will prefer the two docs (relnotes and faq) to > > have different PO files and not one. > > We'll just have to hack the Makefile a bit for that, right? > > If you can, take a look at what that would take. I just checked in a > current dump to DocBook of the FAQ, release-notes/devel/en_US/FAQ.xml. > Can you get a stand-alone FAQ.po out of that? Using separate PO for this document is going to create a real ugliness in our Makefile. (We try and avoid exceptions since they make for maintenance headaches.) I've done some work on the relnotes Makefile with the intention of moving it over to Makefile.common as soon as I can make sure it won't hurt anything else. It will replace the current packaging crap that I wrote last year (apparently while napping). > If so, then we'll look at treating the FAQ like we do the Docs/Beats and > RELEASE-NOTES.po -- freezing, converting to XML, and including in > i18n.r.c for everyone to translate. If we want separate PO, a separate module would be preferable. We can have fedora-release-notes Requires: fedora-faq if we want to package it separately. If we want to just package them together, one PO only is probably the name of the game. -- Paul W. Frields, RHCE http://paul.frields.org/ gpg fingerprint: 3DA6 A0AC 6D58 FEC4 0233 5906 ACDB C937 BD11 3717 Fedora Project Board: http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Board Fedora Docs Project: http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/DocsProject -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: signature.asc Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 189 bytes Desc: This is a digitally signed message part URL: From stickster at gmail.com Sat Aug 5 03:49:20 2006 From: stickster at gmail.com (Paul W. Frields) Date: Fri, 04 Aug 2006 23:49:20 -0400 Subject: Breaking CVS builds Message-ID: <1154749760.2938.53.camel@localhost.localdomain> It's been about six months (and one release!) since we did any major surgery on our build tools, and we're past the test2 stage, which for some reason seems to be our "jump into action" time here in Docs. Tommy and I have decided that the rpm-info.xml file ought to be in our per-language directories, which simplifies the translation process, since it makes at least one less "extra" Docs-only rule for translators. THIS CHANGE WILL BREAK BUILDING FOR EXISTING DOCUMENTS. But only *temporarily*, assuming one does the following: 1. Move the rpm-info.xml file into the ${PRI_LANG} directory, usually en_US/ 2. Change the DTD reference to be one more parent up from the new location (e.g. "../../docs-common..." becomes "../../../docs-common...") 3. Right now, the rpm-info.xml file contains subnodes in the element, which is where translators currently put their translations. The DTD will be changed to remove the element entirely in favor of a single and a single <desc> element, which will be translated via the document's unified PO/POT along with the other textual content. So any <translation> nodes other than the ${PRI_LANG} (original) language SHOULD BE REMOVED, and the ${PRI_LANG} version should simply inhabit the parent element which will now be <title> instead of <titles>. IOW, instead of this: ... <titles> <translation lang="en_US"> <title>Foo Tutorial A tutorial about Foo Foofen Tutorialste Er tutorialste vio Foofen ... ...we will now have this: ... Foo Tutorial A tutorial about Foo ... All extra translated will also be removed for the same reason. Sorry to cause a little bit more work for the translators initially, but at wdorst you guys should be able to pull the old translators out of CVS from a time before the commit if needed. Until we get everything settled, stuff may not build correctly. I will try and fix all the existing modules "in play," since there's not that many to worry about. If I miss one and you find it, let me know. Give me a couple days to get everything sussed out; the first modules to be treated will be: * release-notes * example-tutorial * translation-quick-start-guide * install-guide I should be able to get all the others done as well, but I promise those four will be done soonest. Questions can go to this list per usual. -- Paul W. Frields, RHCE http://paul.frields.org/ gpg fingerprint: 3DA6 A0AC 6D58 FEC4 0233 5906 ACDB C937 BD11 3717 Fedora Project Board: http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Board Fedora Docs Project: http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/DocsProject -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: signature.asc Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 189 bytes Desc: This is a digitally signed message part URL: From splinux at fedoraproject.org Sun Aug 6 16:20:04 2006 From: splinux at fedoraproject.org (Damien Durand) Date: Sun, 6 Aug 2006 18:20:04 +0200 Subject: Fedora usability : a new project? Message-ID: Hello everyone, Fedora usability was born but it's not official yet;-) : http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/DamienDurand/Usability What's fedora Usability? The Fedora Usability project aims to provide coherence, accessibility and intuivity for all people using Fedora Core and its associated resources. Fedora must be easy and making things simple and coherent for a pleasant use is my objectif with this project. I need feedback, if you're interested to contribute feel free to add your name in the usability group : http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/DamienDurand/Usability/UsabilityGroup Once this project completed and approved by you, I'll move the wiki pages and will send an official announce ;-) Thanks in advance Damien Durand -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From stickster at gmail.com Sun Aug 6 18:32:57 2006 From: stickster at gmail.com (Paul W. Frields) Date: Sun, 06 Aug 2006 14:32:57 -0400 Subject: Translation QSG Message-ID: <1154889177.30664.18.camel@localhost.localdomain> Translators no longer need to translate the special "rpm-info.xml" file separately in Docs CVS. We've made it part of our normal POT/PO inclusion, so there's one less "extra" step in doing Docs translation directly in our CVS. I've updated the Translation Quick Start Guide to remove that procedural step. We currently have the following locales available for that document which translators might want to update: el es fr_FR it ja_JP nl pa pl pt pt_BR ru As I get updated versions, I'll publish them. Translators who use our special wiki publication queue page will get top priority: http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/DocsProject/PublishQueue Remember to get a fellow translator to check your work so we can publish your translation right away! -- Paul W. Frields, RHCE http://paul.frields.org/ gpg fingerprint: 3DA6 A0AC 6D58 FEC4 0233 5906 ACDB C937 BD11 3717 Fedora Project Board: http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Board Fedora Docs Project: http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/DocsProject -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: signature.asc Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 189 bytes Desc: This is a digitally signed message part URL: From kwade at redhat.com Tue Aug 8 21:22:57 2006 From: kwade at redhat.com (Karsten Wade) Date: Tue, 08 Aug 2006 14:22:57 -0700 Subject: Suggestions for system home page In-Reply-To: <44C7B290.80900@glezos.com> References: <44C7B290.80900@glezos.com> Message-ID: <1155072177.2835.73.camel@erato.phig.org> On Wed, 2006-07-26 at 19:21 +0100, Dimitris Glezos wrote: > OK, I'll throw yet another idea on the table here. :) Great idea, sorry for the delay. We weren't sure that there was time to do this, but since we control the pieces, there really is no reason to delay. Dimitris - the mock-up you did in your Wiki space is _great_. Bob Jensen is going to contact you, he is taking the lead in this. Since Fedora Docs now fully controls /usr/share/doc/HTML/index.html (as part of the new fedora-release-notes package), we can make any changes we see fit. I still want to get our other designers peer reviewing, but there is not reason we can't have a mock-up to approve by the end of this week and have the new page appearing in rawhide/devel next week. - Karsten -- Karsten Wade, RHCE, 108 Editor ^ Fedora Documentation Project Sr. Developer Relations Mgr. | fedoraproject.org/wiki/DocsProject quaid.108.redhat.com | gpg key: AD0E0C41 ////////////////////////////////// \\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\ -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: signature.asc Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 189 bytes Desc: This is a digitally signed message part URL: From kwade at redhat.com Tue Aug 8 21:29:44 2006 From: kwade at redhat.com (Karsten Wade) Date: Tue, 08 Aug 2006 14:29:44 -0700 Subject: Suggestions for system home page In-Reply-To: <44C8F1BE.3000602@glezos.com> References: <44C7B290.80900@glezos.com> <44C8E4CE.10708@fedoraproject.org> <44C8F1BE.3000602@glezos.com> Message-ID: <1155072584.2835.76.camel@erato.phig.org> On Thu, 2006-07-27 at 18:02 +0100, Dimitris Glezos wrote: > Nevertheless, I believe we should probably not dismiss the idea of > having a box *somewhere* to be able to notify users of something > important. Having it at the home page of the browser is much less > annoying than a pop-up in the notification area for example. Also, > giving the user the choice of information level (important news, > security notices, nothing at all) would ensure minimum annoyance levels. > Of course, again, these require scripting, so they remain just future > ideas for now. Let's begin work on this just following the FC6 release. We could use the cycle between FC6 and FC7 to work on all kinds of crazy ideas for that page, get them tested and worked through in rawhide, and have FC7 test1 show some very exciting usability on the documentation and translation fronts. - Karsten -- Karsten Wade, RHCE, 108 Editor ^ Fedora Documentation Project Sr. Developer Relations Mgr. | fedoraproject.org/wiki/DocsProject quaid.108.redhat.com | gpg key: AD0E0C41 ////////////////////////////////// \\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\ -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: signature.asc Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 189 bytes Desc: This is a digitally signed message part URL: From kwade at redhat.com Tue Aug 8 21:32:26 2006 From: kwade at redhat.com (Karsten Wade) Date: Tue, 08 Aug 2006 14:32:26 -0700 Subject: Fedora FAQs in Docs? In-Reply-To: <1154695599.26088.12.camel@localhost.localdomain> References: <44C6D86F.4@glezos.com> <1153932185.29375.219.camel@erato.phig.org> <44C7A62B.4020103@glezos.com> <1153935789.29375.226.camel@erato.phig.org> <44C7B052.1080804@glezos.com> <1154189122.28960.173.camel@erato.phig.org> <1154695599.26088.12.camel@localhost.localdomain> Message-ID: <1155072746.2835.80.camel@erato.phig.org> On Fri, 2006-08-04 at 08:46 -0400, Paul W. Frields wrote: > If we want separate PO, a separate module would be preferable. We can > have fedora-release-notes Requires: fedora-faq if we want to package it > separately. If we want to just package them together, one PO only is > probably the name of the game. We just decided in the FDSCo meeting to do the FAQ as a separate package. Doing this, we can release updates, so even if the on-disk version is a few months out of date, it suggests you immediately update itself. :) - Karsten -- Karsten Wade, RHCE, 108 Editor ^ Fedora Documentation Project Sr. Developer Relations Mgr. | fedoraproject.org/wiki/DocsProject quaid.108.redhat.com | gpg key: AD0E0C41 ////////////////////////////////// \\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\ -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: signature.asc Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 189 bytes Desc: This is a digitally signed message part URL: From stickster at gmail.com Tue Aug 8 23:40:45 2006 From: stickster at gmail.com (Paul W. Frields) Date: Tue, 08 Aug 2006 19:40:45 -0400 Subject: Suggestions for system home page In-Reply-To: <1155072584.2835.76.camel@erato.phig.org> References: <44C7B290.80900@glezos.com> <44C8E4CE.10708@fedoraproject.org> <44C8F1BE.3000602@glezos.com> <1155072584.2835.76.camel@erato.phig.org> Message-ID: <1155080445.6135.141.camel@localhost.localdomain> On Tue, 2006-08-08 at 14:29 -0700, Karsten Wade wrote: > On Thu, 2006-07-27 at 18:02 +0100, Dimitris Glezos wrote: > > > Nevertheless, I believe we should probably not dismiss the idea of > > having a box *somewhere* to be able to notify users of something > > important. Having it at the home page of the browser is much less > > annoying than a pop-up in the notification area for example. Also, > > giving the user the choice of information level (important news, > > security notices, nothing at all) would ensure minimum annoyance levels. > > Of course, again, these require scripting, so they remain just future > > ideas for now. > > Let's begin work on this just following the FC6 release. We could use > the cycle between FC6 and FC7 to work on all kinds of crazy ideas for > that page, get them tested and worked through in rawhide, and have FC7 > test1 show some very exciting usability on the documentation and > translation fronts. If we keep in mind that our sandbox will likely be limited to the use case of "just installed or don't know how to customize Firefox with a new home page," that gives us a limited range for what we announce. Realize that I am saying that is a *Very Good Thing*, since: * it keeps our expectations reasonable; * it requires the reasons for pushing a new announcement as part of any of our packages to be crystal-clear and compelling; and, * it helps us properly phrase and target any announcements to the right audience. Part of Dimitris' idea probably belongs in the work being done in the new repository metadata format, which will allow information add-ons for *why* an update is required. That way security updates have a way of gaining higher visibility and priority. We should rely on that channel for delivering information like security notices. Our work should be focused on things like documentation updates or availability ("New Desktop User Guide is ready!"). -- Paul W. Frields, RHCE http://paul.frields.org/ gpg fingerprint: 3DA6 A0AC 6D58 FEC4 0233 5906 ACDB C937 BD11 3717 Fedora Project Board: http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Board Fedora Docs Project: http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/DocsProject -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: signature.asc Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 189 bytes Desc: This is a digitally signed message part URL: From stickster at gmail.com Wed Aug 9 00:07:00 2006 From: stickster at gmail.com (Paul W. Frields) Date: Tue, 08 Aug 2006 20:07:00 -0400 Subject: Help with translation Message-ID: <1155082020.6135.151.camel@localhost.localdomain> Jos?, Let us know at fedora-docs-list (or me personally) if you are having problems finding a second translator to check your work. We are trying to identify these problem spots, so they don't produce a complete work stoppage when people can't find anyone to help them. Thanks for all your work on translating our documentation so far! (By the way, there is a new version 0.3.3 of the Translation Quick Start Guide available if you have time!) :-) -- Paul W. Frields, RHCE http://paul.frields.org/ gpg fingerprint: 3DA6 A0AC 6D58 FEC4 0233 5906 ACDB C937 BD11 3717 Fedora Project Board: http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Board Fedora Docs Project: http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/DocsProject -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: signature.asc Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 189 bytes Desc: This is a digitally signed message part URL: From jncp at netcabo.pt Wed Aug 9 01:00:47 2006 From: jncp at netcabo.pt (Jose Nuno Coelho Pires) Date: Wed, 9 Aug 2006 02:00:47 +0100 Subject: Help with translation In-Reply-To: <1155082020.6135.151.camel@localhost.localdomain> References: <1155082020.6135.151.camel@localhost.localdomain> Message-ID: <200608090200.47592.jncp@netcabo.pt> Em Quarta, 9 de Agosto de 2006 01:07, o Paul W. Frields escreveu: > Jos?, > > Let us know at fedora-docs-list (or me personally) if you are having > problems finding a second translator to check your work. Something like that. :) I would really appreciate if the docs could be checked soon, in order to be available in time for FC6. As I'm going on vacation till the end of this month, it's possible that my connectivity will be reduced, but I'll try to keep in pace with the current translations > We are trying > to identify these problem spots, so they don't produce a complete work > stoppage when people can't find anyone to help them. Thanks for all > your work on translating our documentation so far! You're welcome! My pleasure :) > (By the way, there > is a new version 0.3.3 of the Translation Quick Start Guide available if > you have time!) :-) As a matter of fact, I've already updated po/pt.po. I'll update the Wiki page for 0.3.3. :) Best regards From mospina at redhat.com Wed Aug 9 02:22:54 2006 From: mospina at redhat.com (Manuel Ospina) Date: Wed, 09 Aug 2006 12:22:54 +1000 Subject: 2.2 Accounts for Documentation in the Translation-QSG Message-ID: <1155090174.4469.14.camel@dhcp-118.brisbane.redhat.com> Hi, I am editing the translation-quick-start-guide to solve the bug #198725 published in Bugzilla. I have made a list of steps needed to participate as a translator in the documentation project. Can anybody tell me if I am leaving something out?. At the moment I have: * Create ssh key * Create gpg key * Suscribe to fedora-docs-list (and post a self introduction) * apply for a fedora account (https://admin.fedora.redhat.com/accounts => Create account) * edit your account to apply for cvsdocs' write access (https://admin.fedora.redhat.com/accounts => Edit your account) * Create wiki account (http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/UserPreferences) * Complete the Contributor License Agreement * Contact a person with edit access to ask for edit access Cheers, Manuel From sundaram at fedoraproject.org Wed Aug 9 06:53:39 2006 From: sundaram at fedoraproject.org (Rahul) Date: Wed, 09 Aug 2006 12:23:39 +0530 Subject: Suggestions for system home page In-Reply-To: <1154620100.882.27.camel@localhost.localdomain> References: <44C7B290.80900@glezos.com> <44C8E4CE.10708@fedoraproject.org> <44C8F1BE.3000602@glezos.com> <44D21456.2070603@fedoraproject.org> <1154620100.882.27.camel@localhost.localdomain> Message-ID: <44D98673.9030504@fedoraproject.org> Paul W. Frields wrote: > On Thu, 2006-08-03 at 20:50 +0530, Rahul wrote: >> Dimitris Glezos wrote: >>> O/H Rahul ??????: >>>> Dimitris Glezos wrote: >>>>> OK, I'll throw yet another idea on the table here. :) >>>>> >>>>> I sat back and thought a bit about the default home page of the browser, >>>>> served at file:///usr/share/doc/HTML/index.html. I feel it isn't really >>>>> what the users should see as a system home page. >>>>> >>>>> What we should aim is a page that feels like "home", something >>>>> welcoming, a collection of useful information for the desktop. >>> I prepared a draft picture of what I have in mind. You can see it here: >>> >>> http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/DimitrisGlezos/SystemHomepage >>> >> Would we able to create this page from dockbook using a suitable stylesheet? > > The layout, sure. Yes. I just need the layout done now. The content could probably just be a separate file in > the release-notes module, which the translators could handle alongside > everything else. None of that is as difficult or important as actually > getting content to back up the sections alluded to on that mockup page. > The antecedent Getting Started Guide, Desktop User Guide, and > Administration Guide do not exist in a publication- or reference-ready > condition at this point. Thats ok. We will add something else to it if we dont get the content in time. Rahul From rue.steffan at googlemail.com Wed Aug 9 08:26:06 2006 From: rue.steffan at googlemail.com (Ruediger Steffan) Date: Wed, 09 Aug 2006 10:26:06 +0200 Subject: Translation QSG In-Reply-To: <1154889177.30664.18.camel@localhost.localdomain> References: <1154889177.30664.18.camel@localhost.localdomain> Message-ID: <1155111966.2558.12.camel@noname> Hello, I would translate the QSG in German (de). Are there other German translators and is fedora-trans-list-de in use? Greets Ruediger -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: signature.asc Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 189 bytes Desc: Dies ist ein digital signierter Nachrichtenteil URL: From stickster at gmail.com Wed Aug 9 11:57:29 2006 From: stickster at gmail.com (Paul W. Frields) Date: Wed, 09 Aug 2006 07:57:29 -0400 Subject: 2.2 Accounts for Documentation in the Translation-QSG In-Reply-To: <1155090174.4469.14.camel@dhcp-118.brisbane.redhat.com> References: <1155090174.4469.14.camel@dhcp-118.brisbane.redhat.com> Message-ID: <1155124649.15788.15.camel@localhost.localdomain> On Wed, 2006-08-09 at 12:22 +1000, Manuel Ospina wrote: > Hi, > I am editing the translation-quick-start-guide to solve the bug #198725 > published in Bugzilla. > I have made a list of steps needed to participate as a translator in the > documentation project. Can anybody tell me if I am leaving something > out?. At the moment I have: > > * Create ssh key > * Create gpg key > * Suscribe to fedora-docs-list (and post a self introduction) > * apply for a fedora account > (https://admin.fedora.redhat.com/accounts => Create account) > * edit your account to apply for cvsdocs' write access > (https://admin.fedora.redhat.com/accounts => Edit your account) > * Create wiki account > (http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/UserPreferences) > * Complete the Contributor License Agreement > * Contact a person with edit access to ask for edit access I think that's correct, although the sites are all now fedoraproject.org (e.g. admin.fedoraproject.org/accounts). -- Paul W. Frields, RHCE http://paul.frields.org/ gpg fingerprint: 3DA6 A0AC 6D58 FEC4 0233 5906 ACDB C937 BD11 3717 Fedora Project Board: http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Board Fedora Docs Project: http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/DocsProject -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: signature.asc Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 189 bytes Desc: This is a digitally signed message part URL: From stickster at gmail.com Thu Aug 10 15:03:48 2006 From: stickster at gmail.com (Paul W. Frields) Date: Thu, 10 Aug 2006 11:03:48 -0400 Subject: Translation FC6 Freeze In-Reply-To: <44DB3760.8030100@redhat.com> References: <6600c1b10608100555i2e0c7f8cid0988eaa3b6f56fa@mail.gmail.com> <44DB3760.8030100@redhat.com> Message-ID: <1155222228.27510.11.camel@localhost.localdomain> On Thu, 2006-08-10 at 19:10 +0530, A S Alam wrote: > Diego B?rigo Zacar?o ?? ?????: > > Hi, > > > > I saw this "Fedora Core 6 po files should be committed before August, 16th > > 2006." at #fedora-l10n and > > http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/DocsProject/Schedule. > > > > Is this date "August, 16th" still correct? > > > let us wait for reply from some Developer to this list Since that's a Docs Project schedule, I doubt any developers will comment... ;-) But no, that schedule is no longer correct. I will make sure someone updates it as soon as possible to reflect changes in the distribution's overall schedule for FC6. Thanks for catching this problem Diego! -- Paul W. Frields, RHCE http://paul.frields.org/ gpg fingerprint: 3DA6 A0AC 6D58 FEC4 0233 5906 ACDB C937 BD11 3717 Fedora Project Board: http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Board Fedora Docs Project: http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/DocsProject -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: signature.asc Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 189 bytes Desc: This is a digitally signed message part URL: From stickster at gmail.com Thu Aug 10 20:02:28 2006 From: stickster at gmail.com (Paul W. Frields) Date: Thu, 10 Aug 2006 16:02:28 -0400 Subject: Translation FC6 Freeze In-Reply-To: <1155230551.14332.14.camel@bart.bercie23.homelinux.net> References: <6600c1b10608100555i2e0c7f8cid0988eaa3b6f56fa@mail.gmail.com> <44DB3760.8030100@redhat.com> <1155230551.14332.14.camel@bart.bercie23.homelinux.net> Message-ID: <1155240148.27510.21.camel@localhost.localdomain> On Thu, 2006-08-10 at 19:22 +0200, Bart Couvreur wrote: > Op do, 10-08-2006 te 19:10 +0530, schreef A S Alam: > > Diego B?rigo Zacar?o ?? ?????: > > > Hi, > > > > > > I saw this "Fedora Core 6 po files should be committed before August, 16th > > > 2006." at #fedora-l10n and > > > http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/DocsProject/Schedule. > > > > > > Is this date "August, 16th" still correct? > > > > > let us wait for reply from some Developer to this list > > > > thanks > > On the L10N[1] page it says August, 16th, apparently cause that *was* > the date of the FC6 test 3 devel freeze. Can I be correct by saying that > the trans freeze should then change to the new[2] FC6 test 3 devel > freeze on 5th of September? > > [1] http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/L10N > [2] http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Core/Schedule This is probably a safe assumption for planning purposes. Any interested translators should probably put a watch on that page on the Wiki (using the UserPreferences page) for good measure. -- Paul W. Frields, RHCE http://paul.frields.org/ gpg fingerprint: 3DA6 A0AC 6D58 FEC4 0233 5906 ACDB C937 BD11 3717 Fedora Project Board: http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Board Fedora Docs Project: http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/DocsProject -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: signature.asc Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 189 bytes Desc: This is a digitally signed message part URL: From jmbabich at gmail.com Sat Aug 12 12:58:32 2006 From: jmbabich at gmail.com (John Babich) Date: Sat, 12 Aug 2006 15:58:32 +0300 Subject: Self-Introduction: John Babich Message-ID: <9d2c731f0608120558m424ad734u9e4410009bac35ef@mail.gmail.com> My name is John Babich. I normally live and work near Baltimore, Maryland in the US. However, I'm temporarily working overseas as a GSM Reporting Manager with Norconsult Telematics. For the record, this is a volunteer effort in my spare time. My Goals and Qualifications I would like to assist the Fedora Core Documentation Project in any way possible. My primary interest is in producing documents to help promote Fedora Core in particular and desktop Linux in general. I'm a long-time user of Linux and I'd like to give something back in return. I see my role initially as an editor/proofreader, but can contribute some articles on the technical aspects of Linux. I've spent the last 25 years working in some aspect of IT and, more recently, telecommunications. I ran my own LAN/WAN integration business and taught public seminars on local area and wide area networks. I also helped start one of the first NetWare user groups and was active in NetWare Users International. I use Fedora Core as my everyday desktop. I take every opportunity to promote Fedora Core in my workplace and among my friends and family. My current assignment requires me to do a great deal of technical writing. These are mostly project status reports in MS Office formats (Word, Excel and PowerPoint). I prefer to work in OpenOffice.org, but a guy's got to eat. I'm new to DocBook and I hope to be up-to-speed shortly, thanks to some great online documentation. Despite the Novell connection, I prefer Fedora Core over SUSE. This is due to my good results with using Red Hat Linux, starting with version 5.0. I say this despite the good old days of using experimental (as in alpha, not beta) video and sound drivers to get a Linux desktop on my IBM ThinkPad. Consequently, I feel I'm an excellent match due to my prior experience with user groups, long history of using Red Hat and Fedora Core, and my current experience with technical writing. Even though I'm a brilliant monolinguist, I get excited at the thought of working on a global multilingual project like Fedora Core. GPG KEYID and Fingerprint pub 1024D/42AF1331 2006-08-12 [expires: 2008-08-11] Key fingerprint = CE8E 40BD 5CB8 8437 787F 8F57 D517 C1DF 42AF 1331 uid John M. Babich (Fedora Project) sub 2048g/9C81B068 2006-08-12 [expires: 2008-08-11] -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From splinux at fedoraproject.org Sat Aug 12 13:25:59 2006 From: splinux at fedoraproject.org (Damien Durand) Date: Sat, 12 Aug 2006 15:25:59 +0200 Subject: Self-Introduction: John Babich In-Reply-To: <9d2c731f0608120558m424ad734u9e4410009bac35ef@mail.gmail.com> References: <9d2c731f0608120558m424ad734u9e4410009bac35ef@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: Welcome to Fedora Docs 2006/8/12, John Babich : > > My name is John Babich. > > I normally live and work near Baltimore, Maryland in the US. > However, I'm temporarily working overseas as a GSM Reporting > Manager with Norconsult Telematics. For the record, this is a > volunteer effort in my spare time. > > My Goals and Qualifications > > I would like to assist the Fedora Core Documentation Project > in any way possible. My primary interest is in producing documents > to help promote Fedora Core in particular and desktop Linux in > general. > > I'm a long-time user of Linux and I'd like to give something > back in return. I see my role initially as an editor/proofreader, > but can contribute some articles on the technical aspects of Linux. > > I've spent the last 25 years working in some aspect of IT and, > more recently, telecommunications. I ran my own LAN/WAN integration > business and taught public seminars on local area and wide area > networks. I also helped start one of the first NetWare user groups > and was active in NetWare Users International. > > I use Fedora Core as my everyday desktop. I take every > opportunity to promote Fedora Core in my workplace and among > my friends and family. > > My current assignment requires me to do a great deal of > technical writing. These are mostly project status reports in > MS Office formats (Word, Excel and PowerPoint). I prefer to work > in OpenOffice.org, but a guy's got to eat. I'm new to DocBook > and I hope to be up-to-speed shortly, thanks to some great > online documentation. > > Despite the Novell connection, I prefer Fedora Core over > SUSE. This is due to my good results with using Red Hat Linux, > starting with version 5.0. I say this despite the good old days > of using experimental (as in alpha, not beta) video and sound > drivers to get a Linux desktop on my IBM ThinkPad. > > Consequently, I feel I'm an excellent match due to my prior > experience with user groups, long history of using Red Hat and > Fedora Core, and my current experience with technical writing. > > Even though I'm a brilliant monolinguist, I get excited at > the thought of working on a global multilingual project like > Fedora Core. > > GPG KEYID and Fingerprint > > pub 1024D/42AF1331 2006-08-12 [expires: 2008-08-11] > Key fingerprint = CE8E 40BD 5CB8 8437 787F 8F57 D517 C1DF 42AF 1331 > uid John M. Babich (Fedora Project) < jmbabich at gmail.com> > sub 2048g/9C81B068 2006-08-12 [expires: 2008-08-11] > > -- > fedora-docs-list mailing list > fedora-docs-list at redhat.com > To unsubscribe: > https://www.redhat.com/mailman/listinfo/fedora-docs-list > > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From stickster at gmail.com Sat Aug 12 16:50:30 2006 From: stickster at gmail.com (Paul W. Frields) Date: Sat, 12 Aug 2006 12:50:30 -0400 Subject: Self-Introduction: John Babich In-Reply-To: <9d2c731f0608120558m424ad734u9e4410009bac35ef@mail.gmail.com> References: <9d2c731f0608120558m424ad734u9e4410009bac35ef@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <1155401431.10509.20.camel@localhost.localdomain> On Sat, 2006-08-12 at 15:58 +0300, John Babich wrote: > My name is John Babich. Hi John, and welcome! We are always in need of new hands. > I'm a long-time user of Linux and I'd like to give something > back in return. I see my role initially as an editor/proofreader, > but can contribute some articles on the technical aspects of Linux. Our main needs now are content, content, CONTENT! I see our sorest lack right now in the end-user documentation like a Desktop Users Guide, Administrators Guide, etc. These have been started on the wiki, but due to our short-handedness, they're a little threadbare. Also, they probably could use the touch of a talented wordsmith to keep them readable, which cuts down on the editorial resources needed. Are you game? See http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Docs/Drafts for more information. Obviously, you'll want to get some account details set up. The main steps remaining AFAICT are: 1. Get a Fedora Account: http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/AccountSystem (Return the CLA, etc. so you can complete the next step) 2. Get a Wiki Account: http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/UserPreferences (Someone will add you to the EditGroup once you have a completed CLA from Step #1) Then you'll be ready to do some work on the wiki. We have some drafting guidelines available that will allow us to turn the wiki material into DocBook XML thanks to our awesome intern's work for the Summer of Code. > I use Fedora Core as my everyday desktop. I take every > opportunity to promote Fedora Core in my workplace and among > my friends and family. Sounds like you'd be a perfect fit for the above work! As you get better acquainted with DocBook, you could help make the call for when to transition these docs to CVS. Many of us started with similar (or less) background experience, so you'll find lots of help here or on Freenode IRC at #fedora-docs. Please stop by IRC and introduce yourself when you get a chance. > Even though I'm a brilliant monolinguist, I get excited at > the thought of working on a global multilingual project like > Fedora Core. Our recent internationalization/localization efforts have really broadened my view. If I only knew then what I know now... :-) It's been a great learning experience. Nice to meet you, and please feel free to roll up your sleeves and jump in. Make a difference, don't be shy! -- Paul W. Frields, RHCE http://paul.frields.org/ gpg fingerprint: 3DA6 A0AC 6D58 FEC4 0233 5906 ACDB C937 BD11 3717 Fedora Project Board: http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Board Fedora Docs Project: http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/DocsProject -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: signature.asc Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 189 bytes Desc: This is a digitally signed message part URL: From jmbabich at gmail.com Sat Aug 12 21:34:32 2006 From: jmbabich at gmail.com (John Babich) Date: Sun, 13 Aug 2006 00:34:32 +0300 Subject: Self-Introduction: John Babich Message-ID: <9d2c731f0608121434g19437aa5o4bb74b61a84da4b3@mail.gmail.com> Damien and Paul, thanks for the quick and hearty welcome. I went through the required steps to create the SSH and GPG keys, filled out, signed and returned the ICLA, and created a Wiki account. I think I did all the steps necessary to get started. Let me know if I missed any. Paul, I look forward to working on the suggested documents. It seems evident from the Introduction in the Desktop User Guide that I need to install FC6 Test 2 as soon as possible. This may take a few days due to generally slow connections in the part of the world in which I'm currently working. Meanwhile, I'll try to stop by IRC in the next few days and get to know some of my fellow contributors better. John Babich -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From sundaram at fedoraproject.org Sat Aug 12 21:39:47 2006 From: sundaram at fedoraproject.org (Rahul) Date: Sun, 13 Aug 2006 03:09:47 +0530 Subject: Self-Introduction: John Babich In-Reply-To: <9d2c731f0608121434g19437aa5o4bb74b61a84da4b3@mail.gmail.com> References: <9d2c731f0608121434g19437aa5o4bb74b61a84da4b3@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <44DE4AA3.9060606@fedoraproject.org> John Babich wrote: > Damien and Paul, thanks for the quick and hearty welcome. > > I went through the required steps to create the SSH and GPG keys, filled > out, signed and returned the ICLA, and created a Wiki account. I think I > did all the > steps necessary to get started. Let me know if I missed any. > > Paul, I look forward to working on the suggested documents. It seems > evident from > the Introduction in the Desktop User Guide that I need to install FC6 > Test 2 as > soon as possible. This may take a few days due to generally slow connections > in the part of the world in which I'm currently working. You would generally require only the first two CD's for the default desktop set. So the connection is slow that would be a good way to get started quickly. If you are documenting other desktop environments like KDE you would require more CD's of course. 9th october is the current planned release date for Fedora Core 6 http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Core/Schedule Rahul From stickster at gmail.com Sat Aug 12 22:30:01 2006 From: stickster at gmail.com (Paul W. Frields) Date: Sat, 12 Aug 2006 18:30:01 -0400 Subject: Self-Introduction: John Babich In-Reply-To: <44DE4AA3.9060606@fedoraproject.org> References: <9d2c731f0608121434g19437aa5o4bb74b61a84da4b3@mail.gmail.com> <44DE4AA3.9060606@fedoraproject.org> Message-ID: <1155421801.2954.29.camel@localhost.localdomain> On Sun, 2006-08-13 at 03:09 +0530, Rahul wrote: > John Babich wrote: > > Damien and Paul, thanks for the quick and hearty welcome. > > > > I went through the required steps to create the SSH and GPG keys, filled > > out, signed and returned the ICLA, and created a Wiki account. I think I > > did all the > > steps necessary to get started. Let me know if I missed any. > > > > Paul, I look forward to working on the suggested documents. It seems > > evident from > > the Introduction in the Desktop User Guide that I need to install FC6 > > Test 2 as > > soon as possible. This may take a few days due to generally slow connections > > in the part of the world in which I'm currently working. > > You would generally require only the first two CD's for the default > desktop set. So the connection is slow that would be a good way to get > started quickly. > > If you are documenting other desktop environments like KDE you would > require more CD's of course. > > 9th october is the current planned release date for Fedora Core 6 > > http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Core/Schedule Before we get too far down this path, note that there is a lot of material in the Desktop User Guide that really won't change at all with FC6 -- concepts and gentle introductions to how to do things. Much of what you see in this guide is only going to change very little -- if at all -- from FC5 to FC6. Your writing should not be bound by whether you can install the latest test release. Use FC5 if you've already got it, and worry about the changes later. Don't let the perfect be the enemy of the good! One of the major mistakes made by a lot of people who want to write a DUG is to concentrate too much on details of how a program works. Instead, figure out who the audience is, and what their average skill set is. Is the DUG for the "above-average" computer users who generally end up installing Linux for fun? I doubt it; they don't need one. A DUG is for first-time computer users who can't figure it out on their own. Therefore the DUG requires very tiny steps, e.g.: What do they see on the desktop? What are the different areas called? How do you interact with them? Just some thoughts... -- Paul W. Frields, RHCE http://paul.frields.org/ gpg fingerprint: 3DA6 A0AC 6D58 FEC4 0233 5906 ACDB C937 BD11 3717 Fedora Project Board: http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Board Fedora Docs Project: http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/DocsProject -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: signature.asc Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 189 bytes Desc: This is a digitally signed message part URL: From dimitris at glezos.com Sat Aug 12 23:26:43 2006 From: dimitris at glezos.com (Dimitris Glezos) Date: Sun, 13 Aug 2006 02:26:43 +0300 Subject: Suggestions for system home page In-Reply-To: <1155072177.2835.73.camel@erato.phig.org> References: <44C7B290.80900@glezos.com> <1155072177.2835.73.camel@erato.phig.org> Message-ID: <44DE63B3.5070408@glezos.com> O/H Karsten Wade ??????: > On Wed, 2006-07-26 at 19:21 +0100, Dimitris Glezos wrote: >> OK, I'll throw yet another idea on the table here. :) > > Great idea, sorry for the delay. > > We weren't sure that there was time to do this, but since we control the > pieces, there really is no reason to delay. > > Dimitris - the mock-up you did in your Wiki space is _great_. Bob > Jensen is going to contact you, he is taking the lead in this. Thanks. :) I could expand the wiki page with more sketches of the idea and its goals, some details, a possible roadmap etc. > Since Fedora Docs now fully controls /usr/share/doc/HTML/index.html (as > part of the new fedora-release-notes package), we can make any changes > we see fit. Furthermore, *at any time* we see fit. Meaning, fixes, additions etc in between releases if necessary. (Ahh.. The sweet taste of freedom!) > I still want to get our other designers peer reviewing, but > there is not reason we can't have a mock-up to approve by the end of > this week and have the new page appearing in rawhide/devel next week. I hope I can start working on this in a week or two, after returning from vacations. I'm not sure if we can expect a full docbook-based implementation for FC6 (docbook in the long term *a must*, since localization of this page is important.) Hopefully, we can hurry and create something good before FC6. By "good" I mean sometihng in docbook (with L10Ns), with attention in usability and design. If we can't make it for a "full version" until FC6, we could fallback to manually writing something in HTML and using the existing CSS with minor tweaks. -dim From cepxat at gmail.com Sun Aug 13 11:20:31 2006 From: cepxat at gmail.com (=?ISO-8859-1?Q?Serhat_G=FCng=F6r?=) Date: Sun, 13 Aug 2006 14:20:31 +0300 Subject: CVS access In-Reply-To: <1154116568.18527.7.camel@localhost.localdomain> References: <6894514e0607250842q6920cb0m1866214510f41c8@mail.gmail.com> <1154115959.28960.51.camel@erato.phig.org> <1154116568.18527.7.camel@localhost.localdomain> Message-ID: <6894514e0608130420i47989b01t3d3bb7800eaa931e@mail.gmail.com> Hi, Is there any change in the sponsorship. I am waiting nearly 3 weeks and I still can't access to the CVS. And our time for translation is becoming lesser. Could anyone approve my account and so that I can start working. When I login to the fedora account page, I see cvsdocs group unapproved as the following. Help please, Serhat Group NameUsernameRole DomainRole TypeRole StatusSponsor ambassadors cepxat user approved *Unneeded* cla_done cepxat None user approved *Unneeded* cvsdocs cepxat user unapproved *Unneeded* On 7/28/06, Paul W. Frields wrote: > > On Fri, 2006-07-28 at 12:45 -0700, Karsten Wade wrote: > > On Tue, 2006-07-25 at 18:42 +0300, Serhat G?ng?r wrote: > > > Hi, > > > I still can't access the Documents CVS Repo. My membership in the > > > cvsdocs group isn't approved. Do I have to do something else? > > > > Sorry about the delays we've caused. > > > > We recently switched to a sponsorship model. For translators, the > > sponsor could be: > > > > 1. A translator from the same, or if not available > > 2. A translator from another language, or if not available > > 3. Any experienced CVS user > > > > How does that sound to everyone? > > > > The sponsor is there to make sure that your work in CVS is accurate. > > They also step in to solve problems and fix mistakes that may be made by > > a new CVS user. > > > > Who can is available to sponsor new translators in CVS? > > I honestly would like to sponsor people but I am at the limit of my time > now between the toolchain, the Board, and other Fedora-related work. > (Did I mention I need to plug away at the DocGuide, mirror-tutorial and > other stuff?) Do we have any trusted/frequent CVS users around who can > help? > > -- > Paul W. Frields, RHCE http://paul.frields.org/ > gpg fingerprint: 3DA6 A0AC 6D58 FEC4 0233 5906 ACDB C937 BD11 3717 > Fedora Project Board: http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Board > Fedora Docs Project: http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/DocsProject > > > -- > fedora-docs-list mailing list > fedora-docs-list at redhat.com > To unsubscribe: > https://www.redhat.com/mailman/listinfo/fedora-docs-list > > > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From sundaram at fedoraproject.org Sun Aug 13 15:17:48 2006 From: sundaram at fedoraproject.org (Rahul) Date: Sun, 13 Aug 2006 20:47:48 +0530 Subject: Release announcement translation Message-ID: <44DF429C.7010509@fedoraproject.org> Hi Release announcements for new releases are a major piece of information that hasnt been translated and announced in sync unlike the release notes. Since this adds a lot of visibility to the L10N efforts, I would like to see us do that from the Fedora Core 6 release onwards. I have talked to Paul.W.Frields on IRC and there are a few things we need to take care of. * Release announcements are usually in a style which doesnt lend itself well to translation and changing into a more formal style would make it rather dull. We can workaround that by doing a alternative formal style announcement that we translate leaving the current community style announcement untranslated but linking them together. I had written a release summary for Fedora Core 5 and now a draft one for Fedora Core 6 (http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/FC6ReleaseSummary) which might serve this purpose. * After the test3 release we need to decide the location of the final Fedora Core 6 release notes and link to it from the above release summary, convert it into DocBook XML format, import into CVS and make it available for translation. I am copying Alam and Jesse Keating for coordinating the translation efforts and making sure that the release summary is linked from the community announcement. We need to get the ball rolling now. Rahul From cranston_tom at asapchoice.com Sun Aug 13 17:03:01 2006 From: cranston_tom at asapchoice.com (Thomas w. Cranston) Date: Sun, 13 Aug 2006 12:03:01 -0500 Subject: Release announcement translation In-Reply-To: <44DF429C.7010509@fedoraproject.org> References: <44DF429C.7010509@fedoraproject.org> Message-ID: <44DF5B45.3070809@asapchoice.com> Rahul wrote: > Hi > > Release announcements for new releases are a major piece of > information that hasnt been translated and announced in sync unlike > the release notes. Since this adds a lot of visibility to the L10N > efforts, I would like to see us do that from the Fedora Core 6 release > onwards. > > I have talked to Paul.W.Frields on IRC and there are a few things we > need to take care of. > > * Release announcements are usually in a style which doesnt lend > itself well to translation and changing into a more formal style would > make it rather dull. We can workaround that by doing a alternative > formal style announcement that we translate leaving the current > community style announcement untranslated but linking them together. I > had written a release summary for Fedora Core 5 and now a draft one > for Fedora Core 6 (http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/FC6ReleaseSummary) > which might serve this purpose. > > * After the test3 release we need to decide the location of the final > Fedora Core 6 release notes and link to it from the above release > summary, convert it into DocBook XML format, import into CVS and make > it available for translation. > > I am copying Alam and Jesse Keating for coordinating the translation > efforts and making sure that the release summary is linked from the > community announcement. We need to get the ball rolling now. > > Rahul > > > Hi Could you please identify youself better? The following are the subject and sender: Rahul Release announcement translation I have no quick way of knowing if this is spam or somthing from or relating to the Fedora documents project, so it just looks like spam to me, since I am not familiar with your name. Spammers are beginning to craft subject lins that look like they might relate to a forum, etc. In this case I used a little intuition, but my esp is running a little thin. This goes out to everyone out there, and not just you Rahul. From sundaram at fedoraproject.org Sun Aug 13 17:09:21 2006 From: sundaram at fedoraproject.org (Rahul) Date: Sun, 13 Aug 2006 22:39:21 +0530 Subject: Release announcement translation In-Reply-To: <44DF5B45.3070809@asapchoice.com> References: <44DF429C.7010509@fedoraproject.org> <44DF5B45.3070809@asapchoice.com> Message-ID: <44DF5CC1.2090502@fedoraproject.org> Thomas w. Cranston wrote: > Rahul wrote: > >> Hi >> >> Release announcements for new releases are a major piece of >> information that hasnt been translated and announced in sync unlike >> the release notes. Since this adds a lot of visibility to the L10N >> efforts, I would like to see us do that from the Fedora Core 6 release >> onwards. >> >> I have talked to Paul.W.Frields on IRC and there are a few things we >> need to take care of. >> >> * Release announcements are usually in a style which doesnt lend >> itself well to translation and changing into a more formal style would >> make it rather dull. We can workaround that by doing a alternative >> formal style announcement that we translate leaving the current >> community style announcement untranslated but linking them together. I >> had written a release summary for Fedora Core 5 and now a draft one >> for Fedora Core 6 (http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/FC6ReleaseSummary) >> which might serve this purpose. >> >> * After the test3 release we need to decide the location of the final >> Fedora Core 6 release notes and link to it from the above release >> summary, convert it into DocBook XML format, import into CVS and make >> it available for translation. >> >> I am copying Alam and Jesse Keating for coordinating the translation >> efforts and making sure that the release summary is linked from the >> community announcement. We need to get the ball rolling now. >> >> Rahul >> >> >> > Hi > > Could you please identify youself better? The following are the subject > and sender: > Rahul > Release announcement translation Ok. I am Rahul Sundaram. See http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/RahulSundaram for more information about me. > > I have no quick way of knowing if this is spam or somthing from or > relating to the Fedora documents project, so it just looks like spam to > me, since I am not familiar with your name. I have been here for a few years now. I would expect anyone familiar with the project to know me. > > Spammers are beginning to craft subject lins that look like they might > relate to a forum, etc. > In this case I used a little intuition, but my esp is running a little > thin. > > This goes out to everyone out there, and not just you Rahul. Googling the key words up is a good thing to try when you are not sure. Rahul From stickster at gmail.com Sun Aug 13 17:35:52 2006 From: stickster at gmail.com (Paul W. Frields) Date: Sun, 13 Aug 2006 13:35:52 -0400 Subject: Release announcement translation In-Reply-To: <44DF5B45.3070809@asapchoice.com> References: <44DF429C.7010509@fedoraproject.org> <44DF5B45.3070809@asapchoice.com> Message-ID: <1155490552.11387.4.camel@localhost.localdomain> On Sun, 2006-08-13 at 12:03 -0500, Thomas w. Cranston wrote: > Could you please identify youself better? The following are the subject > and sender: > Rahul > Release announcement translation > > I have no quick way of knowing if this is spam or somthing from or > relating to the Fedora documents project, so it just looks like spam to > me, since I am not familiar with your name. > > Spammers are beginning to craft subject lins that look like they might > relate to a forum, etc. > In this case I used a little intuition, but my esp is running a little thin. > > This goes out to everyone out there, and not just you Rahul. Although not impossible, it's not easy for spammers to get on this list, since verifying registration requires human intervention. If you're having trouble separating fedora-docs-list mail from your normal mail, try using a filter that distinguishes it based on Recipients or List-Id tags in the source. Most email clients have this capability. I use Evolution and the "Filters" option, and move incoming mail into a "fedora-docs" folder if it has a "Recipients" tag that includes "fedora-docs-list at redhat.com". Try it, you'll like it! Of course, the content of this mail shows that it's clearly not spam and directly pertains to Fedora documentation, which is another useful clue. :-) -- Paul W. Frields, RHCE http://paul.frields.org/ gpg fingerprint: 3DA6 A0AC 6D58 FEC4 0233 5906 ACDB C937 BD11 3717 Fedora Project Board: http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Board Fedora Docs Project: http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/DocsProject -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: signature.asc Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 189 bytes Desc: This is a digitally signed message part URL: From cranston_tom at asapchoice.com Sun Aug 13 17:58:31 2006 From: cranston_tom at asapchoice.com (Thomas w. Cranston) Date: Sun, 13 Aug 2006 12:58:31 -0500 Subject: [Spam] Re: Release announcement translation In-Reply-To: <44DF5CC1.2090502@fedoraproject.org> References: <44DF429C.7010509@fedoraproject.org> <44DF5B45.3070809@asapchoice.com> <44DF5CC1.2090502@fedoraproject.org> Message-ID: <44DF6847.5060107@asapchoice.com> Rahul wrote: > Thomas w. Cranston wrote: > >> Rahul wrote: >> >>> Hi >>> >>> Release announcements for new releases are a major piece of >>> information that hasnt been translated and announced in sync unlike >>> the release notes. Since this adds a lot of visibility to the L10N >>> efforts, I would like to see us do that from the Fedora Core 6 >>> release onwards. >>> >>> I have talked to Paul.W.Frields on IRC and there are a few things we >>> need to take care of. >>> >>> * Release announcements are usually in a style which doesnt lend >>> itself well to translation and changing into a more formal style >>> would make it rather dull. We can workaround that by doing a >>> alternative formal style announcement that we translate leaving the >>> current community style announcement untranslated but linking them >>> together. I had written a release summary for Fedora Core 5 and now >>> a draft one for Fedora Core 6 >>> (http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/FC6ReleaseSummary) which might serve >>> this purpose. >>> >>> * After the test3 release we need to decide the location of the >>> final Fedora Core 6 release notes and link to it from the above >>> release summary, convert it into DocBook XML format, import into CVS >>> and make it available for translation. >>> >>> I am copying Alam and Jesse Keating for coordinating the translation >>> efforts and making sure that the release summary is linked from the >>> community announcement. We need to get the ball rolling now. >>> >>> Rahul >>> >>> >>> >> Hi >> >> Could you please identify youself better? The following are the >> subject and sender: >> Rahul >> Release announcement translation > > > Ok. I am Rahul Sundaram. See > http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/RahulSundaram for more information about > me. > > >> >> I have no quick way of knowing if this is spam or somthing from or >> relating to the Fedora documents project, so it just looks like spam >> to me, since I am not familiar with your name. > > > I have been here for a few years now. I would expect anyone familiar > with the project to know me. > >> >> Spammers are beginning to craft subject lins that look like they >> might relate to a forum, etc. >> In this case I used a little intuition, but my esp is running a >> little thin. >> >> This goes out to everyone out there, and not just you Rahul. > > > Googling the key words up is a good thing to try when you are not sure. > > Rahul > Instead of hundres or thousands of people having to google, or go somewhere, it makes more sense to have an identifier in the sender field. For example these identifiers appear in the subject fields of most forums. You may have been posting for years, but don't assume that everyone getting your messages has been associated with the group for very long. Here are a few examples of identifiers in the subject field from groupes I belong to: [GWLUG] OT: Death Star speaker - You have to see it to believe it! [ctl-linux] Bash test [LPJC-jobs] Johnson Space Center Job Fair August 1-3 - Clear Lake, TX All I have to do is look for the identifier, and know that the message is very probably not bogus. I get messages from lots of folks in these groupes. I am not familiar with all of them. Some of them are new. I know it's not fool proof, but it works for me. From cranston_tom at asapchoice.com Sun Aug 13 18:02:01 2006 From: cranston_tom at asapchoice.com (Thomas w. Cranston) Date: Sun, 13 Aug 2006 13:02:01 -0500 Subject: Release announcement translation In-Reply-To: <1155490552.11387.4.camel@localhost.localdomain> References: <44DF429C.7010509@fedoraproject.org> <44DF5B45.3070809@asapchoice.com> <1155490552.11387.4.camel@localhost.localdomain> Message-ID: <44DF6919.4050103@asapchoice.com> Paul W. Frields wrote: >On Sun, 2006-08-13 at 12:03 -0500, Thomas w. Cranston wrote: > > >>Could you please identify youself better? The following are the subject >>and sender: >>Rahul >>Release announcement translation >> >>I have no quick way of knowing if this is spam or somthing from or >>relating to the Fedora documents project, so it just looks like spam to >>me, since I am not familiar with your name. >> >>Spammers are beginning to craft subject lins that look like they might >>relate to a forum, etc. >>In this case I used a little intuition, but my esp is running a little thin. >> >>This goes out to everyone out there, and not just you Rahul. >> >> > >Although not impossible, it's not easy for spammers to get on this list, >since verifying registration requires human intervention. If you're >having trouble separating fedora-docs-list mail from your normal mail, >try using a filter that distinguishes it based on Recipients or List-Id >tags in the source. Most email clients have this capability. > >I use Evolution and the "Filters" option, and move incoming mail into a >"fedora-docs" folder if it has a "Recipients" tag that includes >"fedora-docs-list at redhat.com". Try it, you'll like it! > >Of course, the content of this mail shows that it's clearly not spam and >directly pertains to Fedora documentation, which is another useful >clue. :-) > > > You Wrote: >Of course, the content of this mail shows that it's clearly not spam and >directly pertains to Fedora documentation, which is another useful >clue. > I do not want to open a message ig it looks like spam! From sundaram at fedoraproject.org Sun Aug 13 18:11:20 2006 From: sundaram at fedoraproject.org (Rahul) Date: Sun, 13 Aug 2006 23:41:20 +0530 Subject: [Spam] Re: Release announcement translation In-Reply-To: <44DF6847.5060107@asapchoice.com> References: <44DF429C.7010509@fedoraproject.org> <44DF5B45.3070809@asapchoice.com> <44DF5CC1.2090502@fedoraproject.org> <44DF6847.5060107@asapchoice.com> Message-ID: <44DF6B48.5070206@fedoraproject.org> Hi > Instead of hundres or thousands of people having to google, or go > somewhere, it makes more sense to have an identifier in the sender > field. For example these identifiers appear in the subject fields of > most forums. > > You may have been posting for years, but don't assume that everyone > getting your messages has been associated with the group for very long. I cant send introductions to myself in every mail. If you believe I am spamming, I cant really claim that I dont on my own since its a question of trust at that point. If you havent been associated with the group, do get familiar with those already involved. I cant see any reason to suspect my mail as spam. > > Here are a few examples of identifiers in the subject field from groupes > I belong to: > > [GWLUG] OT: Death Star speaker - You have to see it to believe it! > [ctl-linux] Bash test > [LPJC-jobs] Johnson Space Center Job Fair August 1-3 - Clear Lake, TX > > All I have to do is look for the identifier, and know that the message > is very probably not bogus. > > I get messages from lots of folks in these groupes. I am not familiar > with all of them. Some of them are new. > > I know it's not fool proof, but it works for me. It doesnt make any difference really since the spam mails can easily have a similar subject field. The subject header is already there. You just have to filter your mails from the mailing list based on the To/CC list. Very few mailing lists in Fedora alter the subject field. In general, we avoid doing that. Rahul From stickster at gmail.com Sun Aug 13 18:17:05 2006 From: stickster at gmail.com (Paul W. Frields) Date: Sun, 13 Aug 2006 14:17:05 -0400 Subject: Release announcement translation In-Reply-To: <44DF6847.5060107@asapchoice.com> References: <44DF429C.7010509@fedoraproject.org> <44DF5B45.3070809@asapchoice.com> <44DF5CC1.2090502@fedoraproject.org> <44DF6847.5060107@asapchoice.com> Message-ID: <1155493025.11387.9.camel@localhost.localdomain> On Sun, 2006-08-13 at 12:58 -0500, Thomas w. Cranston wrote: > Instead of hundres or thousands of people having to google, or go > somewhere, it makes more sense to have an identifier in the sender > field. For example these identifiers appear in the subject fields of > most forums. Some mailing lists do that. We have decided not to do that on ours. The issue will not be revisited, period. > You may have been posting for years, but don't assume that everyone > getting your messages has been associated with the group for very long. > Here are a few examples of identifiers in the subject field from groupes > I belong to: > > [GWLUG] OT: Death Star speaker - You have to see it to believe it! > [ctl-linux] Bash test > [LPJC-jobs] Johnson Space Center Job Fair August 1-3 - Clear Lake, TX > > All I have to do is look for the identifier, and know that the message > is very probably not bogus. Understood. You would also be able to tell the same thing if you used a rule or filter in your email program to put messages with certain values in separate folders. For example, any email you receive that includes a List-Id: field with "fedora-docs-list at redhat.com" in it, is not spam. It is a message from this list. Make that filter in your email client, and you will be on the road to spam-free enjoyment of this list. > I get messages from lots of folks in these groupes. I am not familiar > with all of them. Some of them are new. > > I know it's not fool proof, but it works for me. That's great. You can have it work even better by taking the above recommendations. -- Paul W. Frields, RHCE http://paul.frields.org/ gpg fingerprint: 3DA6 A0AC 6D58 FEC4 0233 5906 ACDB C937 BD11 3717 Fedora Project Board: http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Board Fedora Docs Project: http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/DocsProject -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: signature.asc Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 189 bytes Desc: This is a digitally signed message part URL: From mospina at redhat.com Mon Aug 14 01:15:59 2006 From: mospina at redhat.com (Manuel Ospina) Date: Mon, 14 Aug 2006 11:15:59 +1000 Subject: Trans-QSG (bug-198725) Message-ID: <1155518160.4480.4.camel@dhcp-118.brisbane.redhat.com> Hi all, I have modified section 2.3 of the Translation quick start guide to solve the bug #198725. Could anyone edit it and proofread it? Thanks in advance, Manuel From Tommy.Reynolds at MegaCoder.com Mon Aug 14 13:25:48 2006 From: Tommy.Reynolds at MegaCoder.com (Tommy Reynolds) Date: Mon, 14 Aug 2006 06:25:48 -0700 Subject: Release announcement translation In-Reply-To: <44DF429C.7010509@fedoraproject.org> References: <44DF429C.7010509@fedoraproject.org> Message-ID: <20060814062548.acf6b614.Tommy.Reynolds@MegaCoder.com> Uttered Rahul , spake thus: > Release announcements for new releases are a major piece of information > that hasnt been translated and announced in sync unlike the release > notes. Since this adds a lot of visibility to the L10N efforts, I would > like to see us do that from the Fedora Core 6 release onwards. If you would like to get a preview of how this could work, check out the "press-release" project from CVS. There is a meaningless example press release there, just to demonstrate the technology. This approach solves several problems (and probably creates many more): 1) Press releases are written in XML, using a tiny custom DTD. 2) All translatible strings are exposed in the XML, so the familiar .PO/.POT approach will work for the translation team. 3) Document building uses the stock xmlto RPM package. The DTD and generated XSL-FO is simple enough that passivetex appears to have no trouble understanding it. Let me know what you think. Here on the list, of course. Cheers From sundaram at fedoraproject.org Mon Aug 14 13:33:10 2006 From: sundaram at fedoraproject.org (Rahul) Date: Mon, 14 Aug 2006 19:03:10 +0530 Subject: Release announcement translation In-Reply-To: <20060814062548.acf6b614.Tommy.Reynolds@MegaCoder.com> References: <44DF429C.7010509@fedoraproject.org> <20060814062548.acf6b614.Tommy.Reynolds@MegaCoder.com> Message-ID: <44E07B96.50802@fedoraproject.org> Tommy Reynolds wrote: > Uttered Rahul , spake thus: > >> Release announcements for new releases are a major piece of information >> that hasnt been translated and announced in sync unlike the release >> notes. Since this adds a lot of visibility to the L10N efforts, I would >> like to see us do that from the Fedora Core 6 release onwards. > > If you would like to get a preview of how this could work, check > out the "press-release" project from CVS. There is a meaningless > example press release there, just to demonstrate the technology. > > This approach solves several problems (and probably creates many > more): > > 1) Press releases are written in XML, using a tiny custom DTD. > > 2) All translatible strings are exposed in the XML, so the familiar > .PO/.POT approach will work for the translation team. > > 3) Document building uses the stock xmlto RPM package. The DTD and > generated XSL-FO is simple enough that passivetex appears to have > no trouble understanding it. > > Let me know what you think. Here on the list, of course. > That would work for me. You can import the current draft and use it from http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/FC6ReleaseSummary. It will be updated again before the actual release however. We can have this follow along with the rest of the docs as it reaches the freeze date for the translation work to be done. Rahul From stickster at gmail.com Mon Aug 14 13:34:44 2006 From: stickster at gmail.com (Paul W. Frields) Date: Mon, 14 Aug 2006 09:34:44 -0400 Subject: Trans-QSG (bug-198725) In-Reply-To: <1155518160.4480.4.camel@dhcp-118.brisbane.redhat.com> References: <1155518160.4480.4.camel@dhcp-118.brisbane.redhat.com> Message-ID: <1155562484.11387.43.camel@localhost.localdomain> On Mon, 2006-08-14 at 11:15 +1000, Manuel Ospina wrote: > Hi all, > I have modified section 2.3 of the Translation quick start guide to > solve the bug #198725. > Could anyone edit it and proofread it? > Thanks in advance, > Manuel Done. I changed the steps into a real in the XML, and corrected the order slightly. It's been published ("en" version) on the Web, and I'll take care of translations as they arrive. -- Paul W. Frields, RHCE http://paul.frields.org/ gpg fingerprint: 3DA6 A0AC 6D58 FEC4 0233 5906 ACDB C937 BD11 3717 Fedora Project Board: http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Board Fedora Docs Project: http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/DocsProject -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: signature.asc Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 189 bytes Desc: This is a digitally signed message part URL: From hugo at devin.com.br Mon Aug 14 17:14:26 2006 From: hugo at devin.com.br (Hugo Cisneiros) Date: Mon, 14 Aug 2006 14:14:26 -0300 Subject: New translation: mirror-tutorial-pt_BR Message-ID: <200608141414.27039.hugo@devin.com.br> Hi guys, A new translation done by Diego Zacar?o and revised by me was done and commited to CVS. As defined in our procedure, I'm granting Diego Zacar?o (diegobz) docs membership as I was his sponsor and approved his work. I'll update the website shortly. Thanks! -- []'s Eitch http://www.devin.com.br/eitch/ "Talk is cheap. Show me the code." - Linus Torvalds From kwade at redhat.com Mon Aug 14 22:53:48 2006 From: kwade at redhat.com (Karsten Wade) Date: Mon, 14 Aug 2006 15:53:48 -0700 Subject: Focus on two guides for FC6 and a schedule Message-ID: <1155596028.2572.88.camel@erato.phig.org> We have just enough time to complete two important guides for FC6: * Desktop User Guide (new) * Installation Guide (update) This would give us an additional guide over the FC5 release. We need to do this with the resources we have now, while doing our magic for the release notes. A bonus would be getting both guides available for translation prior to the release. I've updated the schedule to reflect this. Our content is due into alpha/draft on 28 August (Wiki) or 30 August (XML in CVS): http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/DocsProject/Schedule To succeed, we need to focus FDP on getting this done. I ask each of you to put your name on *one* of these contributor pages, or two if you are not doing a primary role on the second guide. We need to be realistic about how much personal time we have to finish these on time. http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Docs/Drafts/DesktopUserGuide/Contributors http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Docs/Drafts/InstallationGuide/Contributors Each team needs a designated leader who is accountable for making sure all other contributors know what they are responsible for, when it is due, and where it has to go. This is not a hard role, but someone needs to do it. How does this approach sound? Any suggestions to improve it? Is my schedule too crazy/aggressive to you? Do you think we should be focused on a different set of guides? Do you want to work on something else and not these guides or the release notes? Let's get any issues resolved and proceed to writing. I personally have just a bit of time to put into these guides, and want to know what I am doing is contributing to the release. ;-) I'm sure you all feel the same. cheers - Karsten -- Karsten Wade, RHCE, 108 Editor ^ Fedora Documentation Project Sr. Developer Relations Mgr. | fedoraproject.org/wiki/DocsProject quaid.108.redhat.com | gpg key: AD0E0C41 ////////////////////////////////// \\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\ -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: signature.asc Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 189 bytes Desc: This is a digitally signed message part URL: From stickster at gmail.com Tue Aug 15 03:32:59 2006 From: stickster at gmail.com (Paul W. Frields) Date: Mon, 14 Aug 2006 23:32:59 -0400 Subject: Focus on two guides for FC6 and a schedule In-Reply-To: <1155596028.2572.88.camel@erato.phig.org> References: <1155596028.2572.88.camel@erato.phig.org> Message-ID: <1155612779.14705.17.camel@localhost.localdomain> On Mon, 2006-08-14 at 15:53 -0700, Karsten Wade wrote: > We need to do this with the resources we have now, while doing our magic > for the release notes. Which, incidentally, have gotten MUCH easier to handle with Mikko's script, although still not as automagical as the lazy among us would prefer. ;-) > A bonus would be getting both guides available > for translation prior to the release. I've updated the schedule to > reflect this. Our content is due into alpha/draft on 28 August (Wiki) > or 30 August (XML in CVS): > > http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/DocsProject/Schedule > > To succeed, we need to focus FDP on getting this done. I ask each of > you to put your name on *one* of these contributor pages, or two if you > are not doing a primary role on the second guide. We need to be > realistic about how much personal time we have to finish these on time. > > http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Docs/Drafts/DesktopUserGuide/Contributors > http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Docs/Drafts/InstallationGuide/Contributors > > Each team needs a designated leader who is accountable for making sure > all other contributors know what they are responsible for, when it is > due, and where it has to go. This is not a hard role, but someone needs > to do it. I'd like to point out that it is VERY important that people read and agree with the information in the DUG's Introduction, particularly Assumptions. If you don't see a skill listed there, avoid writing as if the reader had it. Those skills should be kept to a minimum because the only people who will be interested in this guide are beginners to the world of Linux. If they are comfortable with computers, the DUG is *NOT* going to do them a world of good. It's more for Grandma, as I see it. Be gentle and inclusive! > How does this approach sound? Any suggestions to improve it? Is my > schedule too crazy/aggressive to you? Do you think we should be focused > on a different set of guides? Do you want to work on something else and > not these guides or the release notes? > > Let's get any issues resolved and proceed to writing. I personally have > just a bit of time to put into these guides, and want to know what I am > doing is contributing to the release. ;-) I'm sure you all feel the > same. Yup. I personally want to spend more time on the IG if I can find it around the mountain of pending email on f-a-b and other Round Tuits. Someone was doing screenshots which I hope will make it in shortly. The positive note for the IG is that other than a few revisions and additions it is basically solid thanks to Stuart Ellis' hard work, and will easily withstand the rigors of another release. -- Paul W. Frields, RHCE http://paul.frields.org/ gpg fingerprint: 3DA6 A0AC 6D58 FEC4 0233 5906 ACDB C937 BD11 3717 Fedora Project Board: http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Board Fedora Docs Project: http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/DocsProject -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: signature.asc Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 189 bytes Desc: This is a digitally signed message part URL: From jmbabich at gmail.com Tue Aug 15 05:46:52 2006 From: jmbabich at gmail.com (John Babich) Date: Tue, 15 Aug 2006 08:46:52 +0300 Subject: Focus on two guides for FC6 and a schedule In-Reply-To: <1155612779.14705.17.camel@localhost.localdomain> References: <1155596028.2572.88.camel@erato.phig.org> <1155612779.14705.17.camel@localhost.localdomain> Message-ID: <9d2c731f0608142246j542023a6qe5bcfdd6197e39fd@mail.gmail.com> On Mon, 2006-08-14 at 15:53 -0700, Karsten Wade wrote: > > A bonus would be getting both guides available > > for translation prior to the release. I've updated the schedule to > > reflect this. Our content is due into alpha/draft on 28 August (Wiki) > > or 30 August (XML in CVS): > > I work best when given a deadline (focuses the mind). I will work with the 28 August date as my deadline. I have already done some changes via the Wiki. My EMACS/DocBook skills are still very basic, but I hope to be up-to-speed soon. Paul W. Frields wrote: > I'd like to point out that it is VERY important that people read and > agree with the information in the DUG's Introduction, particularly > Assumptions. If you don't see a skill listed there, avoid writing as if > the reader had it. Those skills should be kept to a minimum because the > only people who will be interested in this guide are beginners to the > world of Linux. If they are comfortable with computers, the DUG is > *NOT* going to do them a world of good. It's more for Grandma, as I see > it. Be gentle and inclusive! > > Paul, I agree with your approach. We should keep the intended reader in mind. The English vocabulary should also avoid jargon as much as possible (my personal defect). Paul, Cody, Damien, Matt: please review the changes I made so far and let me know if I'm on the right track. Unless instructed otherwise, I will continue to concentrate on the DUG. John Babich gpg key: 42AF1331 -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From kwade at redhat.com Tue Aug 15 15:48:21 2006 From: kwade at redhat.com (Karsten Wade) Date: Tue, 15 Aug 2006 08:48:21 -0700 Subject: Focus on two guides for FC6 and a schedule In-Reply-To: <9d2c731f0608142246j542023a6qe5bcfdd6197e39fd@mail.gmail.com> References: <1155596028.2572.88.camel@erato.phig.org> <1155612779.14705.17.camel@localhost.localdomain> <9d2c731f0608142246j542023a6qe5bcfdd6197e39fd@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <1155656901.2572.136.camel@erato.phig.org> On Tue, 2006-08-15 at 08:46 +0300, John Babich wrote: > > I work best when given a deadline (focuses the mind). I will work with > the > 28 August date as my deadline. Ah, then you understand my method here. :) > I have already done some changes via the Wiki. My EMACS/DocBook skills > are still very basic, but I hope to be up-to-speed soon. It's going to be easier than you think. We'll get most of the work done in the Wiki, and when you see it in XML, it will make more sense to you than if you hadn't seen the content before. - Karsten -- Karsten Wade, RHCE, 108 Editor ^ Fedora Documentation Project Sr. Developer Relations Mgr. | fedoraproject.org/wiki/DocsProject quaid.108.redhat.com | gpg key: AD0E0C41 ////////////////////////////////// \\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\ -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: signature.asc Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 189 bytes Desc: This is a digitally signed message part URL: From kwade at redhat.com Tue Aug 15 15:52:10 2006 From: kwade at redhat.com (Karsten Wade) Date: Tue, 15 Aug 2006 08:52:10 -0700 Subject: Focus on two guides for FC6 and a schedule In-Reply-To: <1155612779.14705.17.camel@localhost.localdomain> References: <1155596028.2572.88.camel@erato.phig.org> <1155612779.14705.17.camel@localhost.localdomain> Message-ID: <1155657131.2572.140.camel@erato.phig.org> On Mon, 2006-08-14 at 23:32 -0400, Paul W. Frields wrote: > On Mon, 2006-08-14 at 15:53 -0700, Karsten Wade wrote: > > We need to do this with the resources we have now, while doing our magic > > for the release notes. > > Which, incidentally, have gotten MUCH easier to handle with Mikko's > script, although still not as automagical as the lazy among us would > prefer. ;-) It'll be even easier when he's done. :) > I'd like to point out that it is VERY important that people read and > agree with the information in the DUG's Introduction, particularly > Assumptions. If you don't see a skill listed there, avoid writing as if > the reader had it. Those skills should be kept to a minimum because the > only people who will be interested in this guide are beginners to the > world of Linux. If they are comfortable with computers, the DUG is > *NOT* going to do them a world of good. It's more for Grandma, as I see > it. Be gentle and inclusive! This is the exact reason for focusing on this guide. There are plenty of ways to support the experienced user with existing content. We are trying to fill a different need here, that of the beginning user. > Yup. I personally want to spend more time on the IG ... OK, then I'm going to switch XML specialist with you. I'll do that task for the DUG, and you can continue with the IG. - Karsten -- Karsten Wade, RHCE, 108 Editor ^ Fedora Documentation Project Sr. Developer Relations Mgr. | fedoraproject.org/wiki/DocsProject quaid.108.redhat.com | gpg key: AD0E0C41 ////////////////////////////////// \\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\ -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: signature.asc Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 189 bytes Desc: This is a digitally signed message part URL: From Serge.Sterck at fmsb.be Tue Aug 15 20:02:53 2006 From: Serge.Sterck at fmsb.be (Serge.Sterck at fmsb.be) Date: Tue, 15 Aug 2006 22:02:53 +0200 Subject: Serge Sterck est absent(e). Message-ID: Je serai absent(e) du Sam 12/08/2006 au Dim 03/09/2006. Je r?pondrai ? votre message d?s mon retour. From kwade at redhat.com Wed Aug 16 01:48:12 2006 From: kwade at redhat.com (Karsten Wade) Date: Tue, 15 Aug 2006 18:48:12 -0700 Subject: FDSCo meeting minutes 08 Aug 2006 Message-ID: <1155692893.2610.13.camel@erato.phig.org> Tasks updated at: http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/DocsProject/SteeringCommittee/TaskSchedule That will do best for minutes, from now on; look at the Status column. -- Karsten Wade, RHCE, 108 Editor ^ Fedora Documentation Project Sr. Developer Relations Mgr. | fedoraproject.org/wiki/DocsProject quaid.108.redhat.com | gpg key: AD0E0C41 ////////////////////////////////// \\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\ -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: signature.asc Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 189 bytes Desc: This is a digitally signed message part URL: From samfw at redhat.com Wed Aug 16 11:47:43 2006 From: samfw at redhat.com (Sam Folk-Williams) Date: Wed, 16 Aug 2006 07:47:43 -0400 Subject: Focus on two guides for FC6 and a schedule In-Reply-To: <1155596028.2572.88.camel@erato.phig.org> References: <1155596028.2572.88.camel@erato.phig.org> Message-ID: <20060816114742.GU27547@unplugged.rdu.redhat.com> On 08/14/06 15:53 -0700 Karsten Wade wrote: > We have just enough time to complete two important guides for FC6: > > * Desktop User Guide (new) > * Installation Guide (update) > > This would give us an additional guide over the FC5 release. > > We need to do this with the resources we have now, while doing our magic > for the release notes. A bonus would be getting both guides available > for translation prior to the release. I've updated the schedule to > reflect this. Our content is due into alpha/draft on 28 August (Wiki) > or 30 August (XML in CVS): > > http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/DocsProject/Schedule > > To succeed, we need to focus FDP on getting this done. I ask each of > you to put your name on *one* of these contributor pages, or two if you > are not doing a primary role on the second guide. We need to be > realistic about how much personal time we have to finish these on time. > > http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Docs/Drafts/DesktopUserGuide/Contributors > http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Docs/Drafts/InstallationGuide/Contributors I have put myself down as a writer/install tester for the IG. As I put in the note on that page, I can find some time for targeted tasks but won't be able to assess what needs to be done. If someone can assign me some specific tasks I'll be able to tackle them. Thanks, Sam > > Each team needs a designated leader who is accountable for making sure > all other contributors know what they are responsible for, when it is > due, and where it has to go. This is not a hard role, but someone needs > to do it. > > How does this approach sound? Any suggestions to improve it? Is my > schedule too crazy/aggressive to you? Do you think we should be focused > on a different set of guides? Do you want to work on something else and > not these guides or the release notes? > > Let's get any issues resolved and proceed to writing. I personally have > just a bit of time to put into these guides, and want to know what I am > doing is contributing to the release. ;-) I'm sure you all feel the > same. > > cheers - Karsten > -- > Karsten Wade, RHCE, 108 Editor ^ Fedora Documentation Project > Sr. Developer Relations Mgr. | fedoraproject.org/wiki/DocsProject > quaid.108.redhat.com | gpg key: AD0E0C41 > ////////////////////////////////// \\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\ > -- > fedora-docs-list mailing list > fedora-docs-list at redhat.com > To unsubscribe: > https://www.redhat.com/mailman/listinfo/fedora-docs-list -- Sam Folk-Williams, RHCE Red Hat Global Support Services Phone: 919/754-4558 GPG ID: 1B0D46BA From stickster at gmail.com Wed Aug 16 23:28:58 2006 From: stickster at gmail.com (Paul W. Frields) Date: Wed, 16 Aug 2006 19:28:58 -0400 Subject: Focus on two guides for FC6 and a schedule In-Reply-To: <20060816114742.GU27547@unplugged.rdu.redhat.com> References: <1155596028.2572.88.camel@erato.phig.org> <20060816114742.GU27547@unplugged.rdu.redhat.com> Message-ID: <1155770938.25699.29.camel@localhost.localdomain> On Wed, 2006-08-16 at 07:47 -0400, Sam Folk-Williams wrote: > I have put myself down as a writer/install tester for the IG. As I put in the > note on that page, I can find some time for targeted tasks but won't be able to > assess what needs to be done. If someone can assign me some specific tasks I'll > be able to tackle them. Sam, A good targeted task would be screenshots of the installation. You can find guidelines for how to format these for publication in the Documentation Guide at http://fedora.redhat.com/docs . Doing these iteratively at test3 time is probably not terribly vital since some of the screens will likely change by final release time. What I *really* need (as guiding dude for IG) is to be able to call on you to do it: 1. Now, so we can use it to guide the revisions; 2. Pre-final release, probably only a couple weeks before it actually happens. Can you tackle #1, and get a handle on whatever technical hurdles you need to overcome to get those shots? That would be great. Feel free to look at what's in Docs CVS already and you can safely omit anything that has not changed since FC5. (Do check against current test2 or Rawhide, though.) Thanks for the offer of help! -- Paul W. Frields, RHCE http://paul.frields.org/ gpg fingerprint: 3DA6 A0AC 6D58 FEC4 0233 5906 ACDB C937 BD11 3717 Fedora Project Board: http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Board Fedora Docs Project: http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/DocsProject -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: signature.asc Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 189 bytes Desc: This is a digitally signed message part URL: From stickster at gmail.com Wed Aug 16 23:33:09 2006 From: stickster at gmail.com (Paul W. Frields) Date: Wed, 16 Aug 2006 19:33:09 -0400 Subject: FDSCo meeting minutes 08 Aug 2006 In-Reply-To: <1155692893.2610.13.camel@erato.phig.org> References: <1155692893.2610.13.camel@erato.phig.org> Message-ID: <1155771189.25699.32.camel@localhost.localdomain> On Tue, 2006-08-15 at 18:48 -0700, Karsten Wade wrote: > Tasks updated at: > > http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/DocsProject/SteeringCommittee/TaskSchedule > > That will do best for minutes, from now on; look at the Status column. I removed some dates that are clearly not accurate... we should slim this list down to reflect what we can actually complete on a reasonable schedule, mayhap... :-) -- Paul W. Frields, RHCE http://paul.frields.org/ gpg fingerprint: 3DA6 A0AC 6D58 FEC4 0233 5906 ACDB C937 BD11 3717 Fedora Project Board: http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Board Fedora Docs Project: http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/DocsProject -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: signature.asc Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 189 bytes Desc: This is a digitally signed message part URL: From stickster at gmail.com Wed Aug 16 23:34:32 2006 From: stickster at gmail.com (Paul W. Frields) Date: Wed, 16 Aug 2006 19:34:32 -0400 Subject: FDSCo meeting minutes 08 Aug 2006 In-Reply-To: <1155771189.25699.32.camel@localhost.localdomain> References: <1155692893.2610.13.camel@erato.phig.org> <1155771189.25699.32.camel@localhost.localdomain> Message-ID: <1155771272.25699.35.camel@localhost.localdomain> On Wed, 2006-08-16 at 19:33 -0400, Paul W. Frields wrote: > On Tue, 2006-08-15 at 18:48 -0700, Karsten Wade wrote: > > Tasks updated at: > > > > http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/DocsProject/SteeringCommittee/TaskSchedule > > > > That will do best for minutes, from now on; look at the Status column. > > I removed some dates that are clearly not accurate... we should slim > this list down to reflect what we can actually complete on a reasonable > schedule, mayhap... :-) Let me reply to the cynical version of me, responding that there are doubtless many hands out there in f-docs-l land, waiting for tasks to munch on! Here's your chance... -- Paul W. Frields, RHCE http://paul.frields.org/ gpg fingerprint: 3DA6 A0AC 6D58 FEC4 0233 5906 ACDB C937 BD11 3717 Fedora Project Board: http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Board Fedora Docs Project: http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/DocsProject -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: signature.asc Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 189 bytes Desc: This is a digitally signed message part URL: From edward.haddock at hawaiiantel.net Thu Aug 17 02:09:35 2006 From: edward.haddock at hawaiiantel.net (Edward Haddock) Date: Wed, 16 Aug 2006 16:09:35 -1000 Subject: Focus on two guides for FC6 and a schedule In-Reply-To: <1155770938.25699.29.camel@localhost.localdomain> References: <1155596028.2572.88.camel@erato.phig.org> <20060816114742.GU27547@unplugged.rdu.redhat.com> <1155770938.25699.29.camel@localhost.localdomain> Message-ID: <1155780575.2844.2.camel@localhost.localdomain> On Wed, 2006-08-16 at 19:28 -0400, Paul W. Frields wrote: > On Wed, 2006-08-16 at 07:47 -0400, Sam Folk-Williams wrote: > > I have put myself down as a writer/install tester for the IG. As I put in the > > note on that page, I can find some time for targeted tasks but won't be able to > > assess what needs to be done. If someone can assign me some specific tasks I'll > > be able to tackle them. > > Sam, > > A good targeted task would be screenshots of the installation. You can > find guidelines for how to format these for publication in the > Documentation Guide at http://fedora.redhat.com/docs . Doing these > iteratively at test3 time is probably not terribly vital since some of > the screens will likely change by final release time. What I *really* > need (as guiding dude for IG) is to be able to call on you to do it: Paul, I have installed and removed FC6 RC2 from a Hard drive on a separate Partition on this computer. If you can show me a way to get screen captures during an install I would be happy to reinstall on this computer again on a new partition and send you the screen shots. I couldn't get Xen to work nor VMWare Player or I would have used them. Mahalo, Edward > > 1. Now, so we can use it to guide the revisions; > 2. Pre-final release, probably only a couple weeks before it actually > happens. > > Can you tackle #1, and get a handle on whatever technical hurdles you > need to overcome to get those shots? That would be great. Feel free to > look at what's in Docs CVS already and you can safely omit anything that > has not changed since FC5. (Do check against current test2 or Rawhide, > though.) Thanks for the offer of help! > > -- > fedora-docs-list mailing list > fedora-docs-list at redhat.com > To unsubscribe: > https://www.redhat.com/mailman/listinfo/fedora-docs-list -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: signature.asc Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 189 bytes Desc: This is a digitally signed message part URL: From Tommy.Reynolds at MegaCoder.com Thu Aug 17 02:59:34 2006 From: Tommy.Reynolds at MegaCoder.com (Tommy Reynolds) Date: Wed, 16 Aug 2006 19:59:34 -0700 Subject: Release announcement translation In-Reply-To: <44E07B96.50802@fedoraproject.org> References: <44DF429C.7010509@fedoraproject.org> <20060814062548.acf6b614.Tommy.Reynolds@MegaCoder.com> <44E07B96.50802@fedoraproject.org> Message-ID: <20060816195934.91fa5083.Tommy.Reynolds@MegaCoder.com> Uttered Rahul , spake thus: > That would work for me. You can import the current draft and use it from > http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/FC6ReleaseSummary. It will be updated > again before the actual release however. We can have this follow along > with the rest of the docs as it reaches the freeze date for the > translation work to be done. That doesn't look like what I would expect in a press release. Is that really your intention? -- I'm already an anomaly, I shall soon be an anachronism, and I have every intention of dying an abuse! From edward.haddock at hawaiiantel.net Thu Aug 17 04:20:22 2006 From: edward.haddock at hawaiiantel.net (Edward Haddock) Date: Wed, 16 Aug 2006 18:20:22 -1000 Subject: Focus on two guides for FC6 and a schedule In-Reply-To: <1155780575.2844.2.camel@localhost.localdomain> References: <1155596028.2572.88.camel@erato.phig.org> <20060816114742.GU27547@unplugged.rdu.redhat.com> <1155770938.25699.29.camel@localhost.localdomain> <1155780575.2844.2.camel@localhost.localdomain> Message-ID: <1155788422.9588.1.camel@localhost.localdomain> On Wed, 2006-08-16 at 16:09 -1000, Edward Haddock wrote: > On Wed, 2006-08-16 at 19:28 -0400, Paul W. Frields wrote: > > On Wed, 2006-08-16 at 07:47 -0400, Sam Folk-Williams wrote: > > > I have put myself down as a writer/install tester for the IG. As I put in the > > > note on that page, I can find some time for targeted tasks but won't be able to > > > assess what needs to be done. If someone can assign me some specific tasks I'll > > > be able to tackle them. > > > > Sam, > > > > A good targeted task would be screenshots of the installation. You can > > find guidelines for how to format these for publication in the > > Documentation Guide at http://fedora.redhat.com/docs . Doing these > > iteratively at test3 time is probably not terribly vital since some of > > the screens will likely change by final release time. What I *really* > > need (as guiding dude for IG) is to be able to call on you to do it: > Paul, > I have installed and removed FC6 RC2 from a Hard drive on a separate > Partition on this computer. If you can show me a way to get screen > captures during an install I would be happy to reinstall on this > computer again on a new partition and send you the screen shots. I > couldn't get Xen to work nor VMWare Player or I would have used them. > Mahalo, > Edward Paul, I got the VMplayer to work and am installing and snapshoting FC6 RC2 at this time. So far I have 12 .png files of the vmplayer window. Do I need to edit them or send them to you? Hope this helps. Edward > > > > 1. Now, so we can use it to guide the revisions; > > 2. Pre-final release, probably only a couple weeks before it actually > > happens. > > > > Can you tackle #1, and get a handle on whatever technical hurdles you > > need to overcome to get those shots? That would be great. Feel free to > > look at what's in Docs CVS already and you can safely omit anything that > > has not changed since FC5. (Do check against current test2 or Rawhide, > > though.) Thanks for the offer of help! > > > > -- > > fedora-docs-list mailing list > > fedora-docs-list at redhat.com > > To unsubscribe: > > https://www.redhat.com/mailman/listinfo/fedora-docs-list > -- > fedora-docs-list mailing list > fedora-docs-list at redhat.com > To unsubscribe: > https://www.redhat.com/mailman/listinfo/fedora-docs-list -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: signature.asc Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 189 bytes Desc: This is a digitally signed message part URL: From edward.haddock at hawaiiantel.net Thu Aug 17 05:42:38 2006 From: edward.haddock at hawaiiantel.net (Edward Haddock) Date: Wed, 16 Aug 2006 19:42:38 -1000 Subject: Installation .png files Message-ID: <1155793358.11054.3.camel@localhost.localdomain> Aloha, Installed FC6 RC2 via VMPlayer and took .png files with KSnapshot. Saved the cropped with The Gimp. Got a total of 29 of them zipped up nice and neat. Who wants? Where to send? I am not able to do much these days to help you guys out with writing Docs and stuff but I can at least take some screen shots. If needed I suppose I could also take shots of the Desktop for a Desktop users guide. Just let me know what you need. Many Mahalo's Edward -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: signature.asc Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 189 bytes Desc: This is a digitally signed message part URL: From tombo at adamantio.net Thu Aug 17 08:18:28 2006 From: tombo at adamantio.net (Francesco Tombolini) Date: Thu, 17 Aug 2006 10:18:28 +0200 Subject: Translation QSG In-Reply-To: <1154889177.30664.18.camel@localhost.localdomain> References: <1154889177.30664.18.camel@localhost.localdomain> Message-ID: <200608171018.33887.tombo@adamantio.net> Hi all. Alle 20:32, domenica 6 agosto 2006, Paul W. Frields ha scritto: > As I get updated versions, I'll publish them. Translators who use our > special wiki publication queue page will get top priority: > > http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/DocsProject/PublishQueue I have updated the document and the wiki. > Remember to get a fellow translator to check your work so we can publish > your translation right away! Now, I'm looking for a supervisor for the document. Probably I find the appropriated person in Guido Caruso, a Fedora enthusiast that work as teacher in the Palermo University in italy, but he told me that he has some problems to subscribe to fedora-trans-it at redhat.com mailing list. After the message:"Your subscription request has been received, and will soon be acted upon. Depending on the configuration of this mailing list, your subscription request may have to be first confirmed by you via email, or approved by the list moderator" the server will not gave him any response about subscription... How do I solve this problem? Thanks -- Francesco Tombolini Key fingerprint = EDA9 7504 AA93 CEFC 5990 1356 8584 6B05 F140 5F73 http://www.adamantio.net -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 189 bytes Desc: not available URL: From samfw at redhat.com Thu Aug 17 13:57:07 2006 From: samfw at redhat.com (Sam Folk-Williams) Date: Thu, 17 Aug 2006 09:57:07 -0400 Subject: Focus on two guides for FC6 and a schedule In-Reply-To: <1155770938.25699.29.camel@localhost.localdomain> References: <1155596028.2572.88.camel@erato.phig.org> <20060816114742.GU27547@unplugged.rdu.redhat.com> <1155770938.25699.29.camel@localhost.localdomain> Message-ID: <20060817135706.GE23005@unplugged.rdu.redhat.com> On 08/16/06 19:28 -0400 Paul W. Frields wrote: > On Wed, 2006-08-16 at 07:47 -0400, Sam Folk-Williams wrote: > > I have put myself down as a writer/install tester for the IG. As I put in the > > note on that page, I can find some time for targeted tasks but won't be able to > > assess what needs to be done. If someone can assign me some specific tasks I'll > > be able to tackle them. > > Sam, > > A good targeted task would be screenshots of the installation. You can > find guidelines for how to format these for publication in the > Documentation Guide at http://fedora.redhat.com/docs . Doing these > iteratively at test3 time is probably not terribly vital since some of > the screens will likely change by final release time. What I *really* > need (as guiding dude for IG) is to be able to call on you to do it: > > 1. Now, so we can use it to guide the revisions; > 2. Pre-final release, probably only a couple weeks before it actually > happens. > > Can you tackle #1, and get a handle on whatever technical hurdles you > need to overcome to get those shots? That would be great. Feel free to > look at what's in Docs CVS already and you can safely omit anything that > has not changed since FC5. (Do check against current test2 or Rawhide, > though.) Thanks for the offer of help! Hi Paul, Sure thing. I haven't done these shots before so I'll get myself up to speed. Sam > > -- > Paul W. Frields, RHCE http://paul.frields.org/ > gpg fingerprint: 3DA6 A0AC 6D58 FEC4 0233 5906 ACDB C937 BD11 3717 > Fedora Project Board: http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Board > Fedora Docs Project: http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/DocsProject > -- > fedora-docs-list mailing list > fedora-docs-list at redhat.com > To unsubscribe: > https://www.redhat.com/mailman/listinfo/fedora-docs-list -- Sam Folk-Williams, RHCE Red Hat Global Support Services Phone: 919/754-4558 GPG ID: 1B0D46BA From samfw at redhat.com Thu Aug 17 14:16:50 2006 From: samfw at redhat.com (Sam Folk-Williams) Date: Thu, 17 Aug 2006 10:16:50 -0400 Subject: Installation .png files In-Reply-To: <1155793358.11054.3.camel@localhost.localdomain> References: <1155793358.11054.3.camel@localhost.localdomain> Message-ID: <20060817141649.GF23005@unplugged.rdu.redhat.com> On 08/16/06 19:42 -1000 Edward Haddock wrote: > Aloha, > Installed FC6 RC2 via VMPlayer and took .png files with KSnapshot. > Saved the cropped with The Gimp. Got a total of 29 of them zipped up > nice and neat. Who wants? Where to send? I am not able to do much these > days to help you guys out with writing Docs and stuff but I can at least > take some screen shots. If needed I suppose I could also take shots of > the Desktop for a Desktop users guide. Just let me know what you need. > Many Mahalo's Edward Heya Edward -- cool. I was just going to do that! Send 'em over to me and I can make sure they are sized right and get them into CVS, etc. Unless Paul has another idea? Thanks, Sam > -- > fedora-docs-list mailing list > fedora-docs-list at redhat.com > To unsubscribe: > https://www.redhat.com/mailman/listinfo/fedora-docs-list -- Sam Folk-Williams, RHCE Red Hat Global Support Services Phone: 919/754-4558 GPG ID: 1B0D46BA From stickster at gmail.com Thu Aug 17 14:22:24 2006 From: stickster at gmail.com (Paul W. Frields) Date: Thu, 17 Aug 2006 10:22:24 -0400 Subject: Focus on two guides for FC6 and a schedule In-Reply-To: <20060817135706.GE23005@unplugged.rdu.redhat.com> References: <1155596028.2572.88.camel@erato.phig.org> <20060816114742.GU27547@unplugged.rdu.redhat.com> <1155770938.25699.29.camel@localhost.localdomain> <20060817135706.GE23005@unplugged.rdu.redhat.com> Message-ID: <1155824544.22852.2.camel@localhost.localdomain> On Thu, 2006-08-17 at 09:57 -0400, Sam Folk-Williams wrote: > On 08/16/06 19:28 -0400 Paul W. Frields wrote: > > On Wed, 2006-08-16 at 07:47 -0400, Sam Folk-Williams wrote: > > > I have put myself down as a writer/install tester for the IG. As I put in the > > > note on that page, I can find some time for targeted tasks but won't be able to > > > assess what needs to be done. If someone can assign me some specific tasks I'll > > > be able to tackle them. > > > > Sam, > > > > A good targeted task would be screenshots of the installation. You can > > find guidelines for how to format these for publication in the > > Documentation Guide at http://fedora.redhat.com/docs . Doing these > > iteratively at test3 time is probably not terribly vital since some of > > the screens will likely change by final release time. What I *really* > > need (as guiding dude for IG) is to be able to call on you to do it: > > > > 1. Now, so we can use it to guide the revisions; > > 2. Pre-final release, probably only a couple weeks before it actually > > happens. > > > > Can you tackle #1, and get a handle on whatever technical hurdles you > > need to overcome to get those shots? That would be great. Feel free to > > look at what's in Docs CVS already and you can safely omit anything that > > has not changed since FC5. (Do check against current test2 or Rawhide, > > though.) Thanks for the offer of help! > Hi Paul, > > Sure thing. I haven't done these shots before so I'll get myself up to speed. Sam, looks like Edward has this under control for now. Give me a day or two to get some traction myself. Almost everything for me has to wait until nighttime hours. :-) -- Paul W. Frields, RHCE http://paul.frields.org/ gpg fingerprint: 3DA6 A0AC 6D58 FEC4 0233 5906 ACDB C937 BD11 3717 Fedora Project Board: http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Board Fedora Docs Project: http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/DocsProject -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: signature.asc Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 189 bytes Desc: This is a digitally signed message part URL: From stickster at gmail.com Thu Aug 17 14:25:19 2006 From: stickster at gmail.com (Paul W. Frields) Date: Thu, 17 Aug 2006 10:25:19 -0400 Subject: Installation .png files In-Reply-To: <1155793358.11054.3.camel@localhost.localdomain> References: <1155793358.11054.3.camel@localhost.localdomain> Message-ID: <1155824719.22852.4.camel@localhost.localdomain> On Wed, 2006-08-16 at 19:42 -1000, Edward Haddock wrote: > Aloha, > Installed FC6 RC2 via VMPlayer and took .png files with KSnapshot. > Saved the cropped with The Gimp. Got a total of 29 of them zipped up > nice and neat. Who wants? Where to send? I am not able to do much these > days to help you guys out with writing Docs and stuff but I can at least > take some screen shots. If needed I suppose I could also take shots of > the Desktop for a Desktop users guide. Just let me know what you need. > Many Mahalo's Edward Edward, you can just email to them to me if you like, and I'll take care of further conversion, CVS, etc. Thanks! -- Paul W. Frields, RHCE http://paul.frields.org/ gpg fingerprint: 3DA6 A0AC 6D58 FEC4 0233 5906 ACDB C937 BD11 3717 Fedora Project Board: http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Board Fedora Docs Project: http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/DocsProject -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: signature.asc Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 189 bytes Desc: This is a digitally signed message part URL: From stickster at gmail.com Thu Aug 17 14:26:49 2006 From: stickster at gmail.com (Paul W. Frields) Date: Thu, 17 Aug 2006 10:26:49 -0400 Subject: Installation .png files In-Reply-To: <1155824719.22852.4.camel@localhost.localdomain> References: <1155793358.11054.3.camel@localhost.localdomain> <1155824719.22852.4.camel@localhost.localdomain> Message-ID: <1155824809.22852.7.camel@localhost.localdomain> On Thu, 2006-08-17 at 10:25 -0400, Paul W. Frields wrote: > On Wed, 2006-08-16 at 19:42 -1000, Edward Haddock wrote: > > Aloha, > > Installed FC6 RC2 via VMPlayer and took .png files with KSnapshot. > > Saved the cropped with The Gimp. Got a total of 29 of them zipped up > > nice and neat. Who wants? Where to send? I am not able to do much these > > days to help you guys out with writing Docs and stuff but I can at least > > take some screen shots. If needed I suppose I could also take shots of > > the Desktop for a Desktop users guide. Just let me know what you need. > > Many Mahalo's Edward > > Edward, you can just email to them to me if you like, and I'll take care > of further conversion, CVS, etc. Thanks! Belay that, I hadn't seen Sam's email. Sam, if you can do that part, GREAT! Thanks. -- Paul W. Frields, RHCE http://paul.frields.org/ gpg fingerprint: 3DA6 A0AC 6D58 FEC4 0233 5906 ACDB C937 BD11 3717 Fedora Project Board: http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Board Fedora Docs Project: http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/DocsProject -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: signature.asc Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 189 bytes Desc: This is a digitally signed message part URL: From kwade at redhat.com Thu Aug 17 16:09:13 2006 From: kwade at redhat.com (Karsten Wade) Date: Thu, 17 Aug 2006 09:09:13 -0700 Subject: Meeting minutes FDSCO 15-Aug-2006 Message-ID: <1155830953.2610.154.camel@erato.phig.org> We're using the task list as the minutes as well; use the status column to see what happened on each task. http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/DocsProject/SteeringCommittee/TaskSchedule Let us know if you feel more information is needed on a regular basis. Trying balance convenience, timing, and quality. :) - Karsten -- Karsten Wade, RHCE, 108 Editor ^ Fedora Documentation Project Sr. Developer Relations Mgr. | fedoraproject.org/wiki/DocsProject quaid.108.redhat.com | gpg key: AD0E0C41 ////////////////////////////////// \\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\ -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: signature.asc Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 189 bytes Desc: This is a digitally signed message part URL: From stickster at gmail.com Fri Aug 18 11:27:03 2006 From: stickster at gmail.com (Paul W. Frields) Date: Fri, 18 Aug 2006 07:27:03 -0400 Subject: CVS access In-Reply-To: <6894514e0608130420i47989b01t3d3bb7800eaa931e@mail.gmail.com> References: <6894514e0607250842q6920cb0m1866214510f41c8@mail.gmail.com> <1154115959.28960.51.camel@erato.phig.org> <1154116568.18527.7.camel@localhost.localdomain> <6894514e0608130420i47989b01t3d3bb7800eaa931e@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <1155900423.17283.3.camel@localhost.localdomain> On Sun, 2006-08-13 at 14:20 +0300, Serhat G?ng?r wrote: > Hi, > Is there any change in the sponsorship. I am waiting nearly 3 weeks > and I still can't access to the CVS. And our time for translation is > becoming lesser. > Could anyone approve my account and so that I can start working. When > I login to the fedora account page, I see cvsdocs group unapproved as > the following. Serhat, I see no one got back to you yet; sorry for the delay, some of our folks are away for various reasons. Do you have a second person available to help you with translation? If not, we can still give you provisional access so you can do translations until either you have an assistant, or we can get docs integrated with other translation efforts. -- Paul W. Frields, RHCE http://paul.frields.org/ gpg fingerprint: 3DA6 A0AC 6D58 FEC4 0233 5906 ACDB C937 BD11 3717 Fedora Project Board: http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Board Fedora Docs Project: http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/DocsProject -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: signature.asc Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 189 bytes Desc: This is a digitally signed message part URL: From sonar_guy at c-ccom.com Fri Aug 18 13:39:48 2006 From: sonar_guy at c-ccom.com (Scott Glaser) Date: Fri, 18 Aug 2006 09:39:48 -0400 Subject: Fedora Installation Guide FC6 In-Reply-To: <1155900423.17283.3.camel@localhost.localdomain> References: <6894514e0607250842q6920cb0m1866214510f41c8@mail.gmail.com> <1154115959.28960.51.camel@erato.phig.org> <1154116568.18527.7.camel@localhost.localdomain> <6894514e0608130420i47989b01t3d3bb7800eaa931e@mail.gmail.com> <1155900423.17283.3.camel@localhost.localdomain> Message-ID: <1155908388.7022.8.camel@compaqlaptop.theglaserfamily.org> Paul, Per our discussion Tuesday evening in #fedora-docs there were a few open items for the FC6 Installation Guide. This is what I got out of the logs: 1. Need to cover the extra repo entry. 2. Need to cover IPv6. 3. There are still a couple odds 'n' ends that also need to be covered. I need a bit more information. What is the extra repo entry? What are the other odds and ends? Could you please expand on these so I can get started on these this weekend? V/R -- Scott Glaser Fedora Core User Web - http://fedoraunity.org http://fedorasolved.org Key fingerprint = 61F5 C7DF 2F63 4A53 44D2 B9BE 3841 EA4F 5990 00BD From sonar_guy at c-ccom.com Fri Aug 18 13:47:10 2006 From: sonar_guy at c-ccom.com (Scott Glaser) Date: Fri, 18 Aug 2006 09:47:10 -0400 Subject: Focus on two guides for FC6 and a schedule In-Reply-To: <1155596028.2572.88.camel@erato.phig.org> References: <1155596028.2572.88.camel@erato.phig.org> Message-ID: <1155908830.7022.16.camel@compaqlaptop.theglaserfamily.org> On Mon, 2006-08-14 at 15:53 -0700, Karsten Wade wrote: > We have just enough time to complete two important guides for FC6: > > * Desktop User Guide (new) > * Installation Guide (update) > > This would give us an additional guide over the FC5 release. > > We need to do this with the resources we have now, while doing our magic > for the release notes. A bonus would be getting both guides available > for translation prior to the release. I've updated the schedule to > reflect this. Our content is due into alpha/draft on 28 August (Wiki) > or 30 August (XML in CVS): > > http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/DocsProject/Schedule > > To succeed, we need to focus FDP on getting this done. I ask each of > you to put your name on *one* of these contributor pages, or two if you > are not doing a primary role on the second guide. We need to be > realistic about how much personal time we have to finish these on time. > > http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Docs/Drafts/DesktopUserGuide/Contributors > http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Docs/Drafts/InstallationGuide/Contributors > I have signed up for both of these as I see them as an Important part of the Fedora Documentation. I do not have the time to lead either, but I would like to contribute to both. Also a part of our Fedora Unity Project we were looking to possibly migrate the posts from http://fedorasolved.org that can be incorporated into the DUG, this has been a part of our mission from day one. There are several post that could be incorporated easing the process of creating the information from scratch. V/R -- Scott Glaser Fedora Core User Web - http://fedoraunity.org http://fedorasolved.org Key fingerprint = 61F5 C7DF 2F63 4A53 44D2 B9BE 3841 EA4F 5990 00BD -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: signature.asc Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 189 bytes Desc: This is a digitally signed message part URL: From sundaram at fedoraproject.org Fri Aug 18 14:18:22 2006 From: sundaram at fedoraproject.org (Rahul) Date: Fri, 18 Aug 2006 19:48:22 +0530 Subject: Fedora Installation Guide FC6 In-Reply-To: <1155908388.7022.8.camel@compaqlaptop.theglaserfamily.org> References: <6894514e0607250842q6920cb0m1866214510f41c8@mail.gmail.com> <1154115959.28960.51.camel@erato.phig.org> <1154116568.18527.7.camel@localhost.localdomain> <6894514e0608130420i47989b01t3d3bb7800eaa931e@mail.gmail.com> <1155900423.17283.3.camel@localhost.localdomain> <1155908388.7022.8.camel@compaqlaptop.theglaserfamily.org> Message-ID: <44E5CC2E.2000700@fedoraproject.org> Scott Glaser wrote: > Paul, > > Per our discussion Tuesday evening in #fedora-docs there were a few open > items for the FC6 Installation Guide. This is what I got out of the > logs: > > 1. Need to cover the extra repo entry. > 2. Need to cover IPv6. > 3. There are still a couple odds 'n' ends that also need to be covered. > > I need a bit more information. What is the extra repo entry? What are > the other odds and ends? Could you please expand on these so I can get > started on these this weekend? > I guess "extra repo entry" refers to the ability of Anaconda in Fedora Development tree to use any yum software repository during installation itself so that you can select and install packages from Fedora Extras and any custom defined repository by providing the url There are a couple of screenshots at http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Tours/FedoraCore6 IPV6 and other changes are documented in the Anaconda package changelog and in the current release notes beats http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Docs/Beats/Installer Note that the above beats covers things in terms of features and we would want to rephrase things so that the end user *benefits* are more clearly stated. I will do that in the release notes before the general release of Fedora Core 6. You can talk to Jeremy in #fedora-devel Freenode IRC channel or mail katz at redhat.com (cc'ed) to discussion these things further. It is also likely that the installer will have a different theme before the final release. http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Artwork/ThemeSubmissions/DNATheme Rahul From sonar_guy at c-ccom.com Fri Aug 18 14:53:00 2006 From: sonar_guy at c-ccom.com (Scott Glaser) Date: Fri, 18 Aug 2006 10:53:00 -0400 Subject: Fedora Installation Guide FC6 In-Reply-To: <44E5CC2E.2000700@fedoraproject.org> References: <6894514e0607250842q6920cb0m1866214510f41c8@mail.gmail.com> <1154115959.28960.51.camel@erato.phig.org> <1154116568.18527.7.camel@localhost.localdomain> <6894514e0608130420i47989b01t3d3bb7800eaa931e@mail.gmail.com> <1155900423.17283.3.camel@localhost.localdomain> <1155908388.7022.8.camel@compaqlaptop.theglaserfamily.org> <44E5CC2E.2000700@fedoraproject.org> Message-ID: <1155912781.7022.19.camel@compaqlaptop.theglaserfamily.org> On Fri, 2006-08-18 at 19:48 +0530, Rahul wrote: > Scott Glaser wrote: > > Paul, > > > > Per our discussion Tuesday evening in #fedora-docs there were a few open > > items for the FC6 Installation Guide. This is what I got out of the > > logs: > > > > 1. Need to cover the extra repo entry. > > 2. Need to cover IPv6. > > 3. There are still a couple odds 'n' ends that also need to be covered. > > > > I need a bit more information. What is the extra repo entry? What are > > the other odds and ends? Could you please expand on these so I can get > > started on these this weekend? > > > > I guess "extra repo entry" refers to the ability of Anaconda in Fedora > Development tree to use any yum software repository during installation > itself so that you can select and install packages from Fedora Extras > and any custom defined repository by providing the url > > There are a couple of screenshots at > http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Tours/FedoraCore6 > > IPV6 and other changes are documented in the Anaconda package changelog > and in the current release notes beats > > http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Docs/Beats/Installer > > Note that the above beats covers things in terms of features and we > would want to rephrase things so that the end user *benefits* are more > clearly stated. I will do that in the release notes before the general > release of Fedora Core 6. > > You can talk to Jeremy in #fedora-devel Freenode IRC channel or mail > katz at redhat.com (cc'ed) to discussion these things further. > > It is also likely that the installer will have a different theme before > the final release. > > http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Artwork/ThemeSubmissions/DNATheme > > Rahul Rahul, Thank you very much. The info and liks are much appreciated. Preparing to install T2 currently which will help make much more sense of the changes. V/R -- Scott Glaser Fedora Core User Web - http://fedoraunity.org http://fedorasolved.org Key fingerprint = 61F5 C7DF 2F63 4A53 44D2 B9BE 3841 EA4F 5990 00BD From kwade at redhat.com Sat Aug 19 04:00:15 2006 From: kwade at redhat.com (Karsten Wade) Date: Fri, 18 Aug 2006 21:00:15 -0700 Subject: Installation .png files In-Reply-To: <20060817141649.GF23005@unplugged.rdu.redhat.com> References: <1155793358.11054.3.camel@localhost.localdomain> <20060817141649.GF23005@unplugged.rdu.redhat.com> Message-ID: <1155960015.2610.292.camel@erato.phig.org> On Thu, 2006-08-17 at 10:16 -0400, Sam Folk-Williams wrote: > On 08/16/06 19:42 -1000 Edward Haddock wrote: > > Aloha, > > Installed FC6 RC2 via VMPlayer and took .png files with KSnapshot. > Heya Edward -- cool. I was just going to do that! Send 'em over to me and I can > make sure they are sized right and get them into CVS, etc. Unless Paul has > another idea? Did CVS work for you OK? - Karsten -- Karsten Wade, RHCE, 108 Editor ^ Fedora Documentation Project Sr. Developer Relations Mgr. | fedoraproject.org/wiki/DocsProject quaid.108.redhat.com | gpg key: AD0E0C41 ////////////////////////////////// \\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\ -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: signature.asc Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 189 bytes Desc: This is a digitally signed message part URL: From kwade at redhat.com Sat Aug 19 04:04:12 2006 From: kwade at redhat.com (Karsten Wade) Date: Fri, 18 Aug 2006 21:04:12 -0700 Subject: Focus on two guides for FC6 and a schedule In-Reply-To: <1155908830.7022.16.camel@compaqlaptop.theglaserfamily.org> References: <1155596028.2572.88.camel@erato.phig.org> <1155908830.7022.16.camel@compaqlaptop.theglaserfamily.org> Message-ID: <1155960252.2610.298.camel@erato.phig.org> On Fri, 2006-08-18 at 09:47 -0400, Scott Glaser wrote: > I have signed up for both of these as I see them as an Important part of > the Fedora Documentation. I do not have the time to lead either, but I > would like to contribute to both. OK, we're going to proceed with the DUG as a group effort for a few more days, or so. Paul is leading the IG effort. I'm going to put my efforts into the DUG, too. > Also a part of our Fedora Unity Project we were looking to possibly > migrate the posts from http://fedorasolved.org that can be incorporated > into the DUG, this has been a part of our mission from day one. There > are several post that could be incorporated easing the process of > creating the information from scratch. +10 Do you have a native way of tagging the posts you think are worthy? If not, perhaps you (and others) can go through the postings and use del.icio.us to tag them. Use a tag such as 'fedora-dug'. If we focus on generating the huge list of candidates, that makes it easier for all of us to add our efforts together. For example, I can wade through fedora-dug tagged items much more efficiently than finding posts in fedorasolved.org. :) - Karsten -- Karsten Wade, RHCE, 108 Editor ^ Fedora Documentation Project Sr. Developer Relations Mgr. | fedoraproject.org/wiki/DocsProject quaid.108.redhat.com | gpg key: AD0E0C41 ////////////////////////////////// \\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\ -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: signature.asc Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 189 bytes Desc: This is a digitally signed message part URL: From edward.haddock at hawaiiantel.net Sat Aug 19 18:49:46 2006 From: edward.haddock at hawaiiantel.net (Edward Haddock) Date: Sat, 19 Aug 2006 08:49:46 -1000 Subject: Focus on two guides for FC6 and a schedule In-Reply-To: <1155960252.2610.298.camel@erato.phig.org> References: <1155596028.2572.88.camel@erato.phig.org> <1155908830.7022.16.camel@compaqlaptop.theglaserfamily.org> <1155960252.2610.298.camel@erato.phig.org> Message-ID: <1156013386.2986.2.camel@localhost.localdomain> On Fri, 2006-08-18 at 21:04 -0700, Karsten Wade wrote: > On Fri, 2006-08-18 at 09:47 -0400, Scott Glaser wrote: > > > I have signed up for both of these as I see them as an Important part of > > the Fedora Documentation. I do not have the time to lead either, but I > > would like to contribute to both. > > OK, we're going to proceed with the DUG as a group effort for a few more > days, or so. Paul is leading the IG effort. I'm going to put my > efforts into the DUG, too. Karsten, Being as I have FC6 RC2 Installed in a virtual machine, I can take snap shots of tasks. Just let me know or give me a list and I will start snapping away. I am happy to help this way. I can at least contribute something. Mahalo, Edward > > > Also a part of our Fedora Unity Project we were looking to possibly > > migrate the posts from http://fedorasolved.org that can be incorporated > > into the DUG, this has been a part of our mission from day one. There > > are several post that could be incorporated easing the process of > > creating the information from scratch. > > +10 > > Do you have a native way of tagging the posts you think are worthy? If > not, perhaps you (and others) can go through the postings and use > del.icio.us to tag them. Use a tag such as 'fedora-dug'. If we focus > on generating the huge list of candidates, that makes it easier for all > of us to add our efforts together. For example, I can wade through > fedora-dug tagged items much more efficiently than finding posts in > fedorasolved.org. :) > > - Karsten > -- > fedora-docs-list mailing list > fedora-docs-list at redhat.com > To unsubscribe: > https://www.redhat.com/mailman/listinfo/fedora-docs-list -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: signature.asc Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 189 bytes Desc: This is a digitally signed message part URL: From sonar_guy at c-ccom.com Sun Aug 20 15:04:48 2006 From: sonar_guy at c-ccom.com (Scott Glaser) Date: Sun, 20 Aug 2006 11:04:48 -0400 Subject: Focus on two guides for FC6 and a schedule In-Reply-To: <1155960252.2610.298.camel@erato.phig.org> References: <1155596028.2572.88.camel@erato.phig.org> <1155908830.7022.16.camel@compaqlaptop.theglaserfamily.org> <1155960252.2610.298.camel@erato.phig.org> Message-ID: <1156086288.24867.8.camel@compaqlaptop.theglaserfamily.org> On Fri, 2006-08-18 at 21:04 -0700, Karsten Wade wrote: > Do you have a native way of tagging the posts you think are worthy? If > not, perhaps you (and others) can go through the postings and use > del.icio.us to tag them. Use a tag such as 'fedora-dug'. If we focus > on generating the huge list of candidates, that makes it easier for all > of us to add our efforts together. For example, I can wade through > fedora-dug tagged items much more efficiently than finding posts in > fedorasolved.org. :) Karsten, What I can do is compile a list of the links that look to be docs compliant (no questionable content). I have started a list here: http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/ScottGlaser/DesktopUsersGuideUnityLinks As I go through more of the content I will update this list. I hope this helps. -- Scott Glaser Fedora Core User Web - http://fedoraunity.org http://fedorasolved.org Key fingerprint = 61F5 C7DF 2F63 4A53 44D2 B9BE 3841 EA4F 5990 00BD -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: signature.asc Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 189 bytes Desc: This is a digitally signed message part URL: From sundaram at fedoraproject.org Sun Aug 20 15:45:14 2006 From: sundaram at fedoraproject.org (Rahul) Date: Sun, 20 Aug 2006 21:15:14 +0530 Subject: Focus on two guides for FC6 and a schedule In-Reply-To: <1156086288.24867.8.camel@compaqlaptop.theglaserfamily.org> References: <1155596028.2572.88.camel@erato.phig.org> <1155908830.7022.16.camel@compaqlaptop.theglaserfamily.org> <1155960252.2610.298.camel@erato.phig.org> <1156086288.24867.8.camel@compaqlaptop.theglaserfamily.org> Message-ID: <44E8838A.4020808@fedoraproject.org> Scott Glaser wrote: > What I can do is compile a list of the links that look to be docs > compliant (no questionable content). I have started a list here: > > http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/ScottGlaser/DesktopUsersGuideUnityLinks > > As I go through more of the content I will update this list. I hope > this helps. Documents on installing software and editing configuration in the terminal while being useful are out of scope for this guide. Rahul From samfw at redhat.com Sun Aug 20 19:09:42 2006 From: samfw at redhat.com (Sam Folk-Williams) Date: Sun, 20 Aug 2006 15:09:42 -0400 Subject: Installation .png files In-Reply-To: <1155960015.2610.292.camel@erato.phig.org> References: <1155793358.11054.3.camel@localhost.localdomain> <20060817141649.GF23005@unplugged.rdu.redhat.com> <1155960015.2610.292.camel@erato.phig.org> Message-ID: <20060820190941.GD23600@unplugged.rdu.redhat.com> On 08/18/06 21:00 -0700 Karsten Wade wrote: > On Thu, 2006-08-17 at 10:16 -0400, Sam Folk-Williams wrote: > > On 08/16/06 19:42 -1000 Edward Haddock wrote: > > > Aloha, > > > Installed FC6 RC2 via VMPlayer and took .png files with KSnapshot. > > Heya Edward -- cool. I was just going to do that! Send 'em over to me and I can > > make sure they are sized right and get them into CVS, etc. Unless Paul has > > another idea? > > Did CVS work for you OK? No I'm still having trouble. Paul committed them for me. From kwade at redhat.com Sun Aug 20 21:59:29 2006 From: kwade at redhat.com (Karsten Wade) Date: Sun, 20 Aug 2006 14:59:29 -0700 Subject: Wiki editing refresher Message-ID: <1156111169.1032.17.camel@erato.phig.org> For all who are editing the DUG or Docs/Beats/, a quick reminder pointer: http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/WikiEditing#Marking_Technical_Terms http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/WikiEditing#Quick_Tips Especially note the first, Marking Technical Terms. There is a table there that is useful. The entire Quick Tips section is good to be familiar with. When it comes time to convert to XML, it is important to have standard usage from the Wiki. It also helps the final Wiki edit in preparation for the XML conversion. Thanks - Karsten -- Karsten Wade, RHCE, 108 Editor ^ Fedora Documentation Project Sr. Developer Relations Mgr. | fedoraproject.org/wiki/DocsProject quaid.108.redhat.com | gpg key: AD0E0C41 ////////////////////////////////// \\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\ -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: signature.asc Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 189 bytes Desc: This is a digitally signed message part URL: From katzj at redhat.com Mon Aug 21 14:22:31 2006 From: katzj at redhat.com (Jeremy Katz) Date: Mon, 21 Aug 2006 10:22:31 -0400 Subject: Fedora Installation Guide FC6 In-Reply-To: <44E5CC2E.2000700@fedoraproject.org> References: <6894514e0607250842q6920cb0m1866214510f41c8@mail.gmail.com> <1154115959.28960.51.camel@erato.phig.org> <1154116568.18527.7.camel@localhost.localdomain> <6894514e0608130420i47989b01t3d3bb7800eaa931e@mail.gmail.com> <1155900423.17283.3.camel@localhost.localdomain> <1155908388.7022.8.camel@compaqlaptop.theglaserfamily.org> <44E5CC2E.2000700@fedoraproject.org> Message-ID: <1156170151.29467.25.camel@aglarond.local> On Fri, 2006-08-18 at 19:48 +0530, Rahul wrote: > Scott Glaser wrote: > > I need a bit more information. What is the extra repo entry? What are > > the other odds and ends? Could you please expand on these so I can get > > started on these this weekend? > > > > I guess "extra repo entry" refers to the ability of Anaconda in Fedora > Development tree to use any yum software repository during installation > itself so that you can select and install packages from Fedora Extras > and any custom defined repository by providing the url Correct. Note that there's also another tiny change pending here to add easy checkbox access to Extras and the currently available updates (well, I'm not 100% sold on the latter... but definitely the former). I hope to land that today or tomorrow. > You can talk to Jeremy in #fedora-devel Freenode IRC channel or mail > katz at redhat.com (cc'ed) to discussion these things further. Yep -- also, if you want me to review things, just let me know. Jeremy From sundaram at fedoraproject.org Mon Aug 21 14:33:02 2006 From: sundaram at fedoraproject.org (Rahul) Date: Mon, 21 Aug 2006 20:03:02 +0530 Subject: Fedora Installation Guide FC6 In-Reply-To: <1156170151.29467.25.camel@aglarond.local> References: <6894514e0607250842q6920cb0m1866214510f41c8@mail.gmail.com> <1154115959.28960.51.camel@erato.phig.org> <1154116568.18527.7.camel@localhost.localdomain> <6894514e0608130420i47989b01t3d3bb7800eaa931e@mail.gmail.com> <1155900423.17283.3.camel@localhost.localdomain> <1155908388.7022.8.camel@compaqlaptop.theglaserfamily.org> <44E5CC2E.2000700@fedoraproject.org> <1156170151.29467.25.camel@aglarond.local> Message-ID: <44E9C41E.6020005@fedoraproject.org> Jeremy Katz wrote: > On Fri, 2006-08-18 at 19:48 +0530, Rahul wrote: >> Scott Glaser wrote: >>> I need a bit more information. What is the extra repo entry? What are >>> the other odds and ends? Could you please expand on these so I can get >>> started on these this weekend? >>> >> I guess "extra repo entry" refers to the ability of Anaconda in Fedora >> Development tree to use any yum software repository during installation >> itself so that you can select and install packages from Fedora Extras >> and any custom defined repository by providing the url > > Correct. Note that there's also another tiny change pending here to add > easy checkbox access to Extras and the currently available updates > (well, I'm not 100% sold on the latter... but definitely the former). I > hope to land that today or tomorrow. Yay. Jeremy rocks. I would love to have direct access to updates within the installer as a *option*. I know regressions on updates would make this messy but the right solution is to avoid regressions anyway. > >> You can talk to Jeremy in #fedora-devel Freenode IRC channel or mail >> katz at redhat.com (cc'ed) to discussion these things further. > > Yep -- also, if you want me to review things, just let me know. > Cool. Now if we get Pirut to work on media and nfs trees, Puplet by default, Pup with the Luke Macken's cool new UI and spicy notifications I am almost sold. Network manager by default would be even better but that maybe asking for too much ;-) Rahul From stickster at gmail.com Mon Aug 21 17:54:21 2006 From: stickster at gmail.com (Paul W. Frields) Date: Mon, 21 Aug 2006 13:54:21 -0400 Subject: Fedora Installation Guide FC6 In-Reply-To: <44E9C41E.6020005@fedoraproject.org> References: <6894514e0607250842q6920cb0m1866214510f41c8@mail.gmail.com> <1154115959.28960.51.camel@erato.phig.org> <1154116568.18527.7.camel@localhost.localdomain> <6894514e0608130420i47989b01t3d3bb7800eaa931e@mail.gmail.com> <1155900423.17283.3.camel@localhost.localdomain> <1155908388.7022.8.camel@compaqlaptop.theglaserfamily.org> <44E5CC2E.2000700@fedoraproject.org> <1156170151.29467.25.camel@aglarond.local> <44E9C41E.6020005@fedoraproject.org> Message-ID: <1156182862.26922.25.camel@localhost.localdomain> On Mon, 2006-08-21 at 20:03 +0530, Rahul wrote: > Jeremy Katz wrote: > > On Fri, 2006-08-18 at 19:48 +0530, Rahul wrote: > >> Scott Glaser wrote: > >>> I need a bit more information. What is the extra repo entry? What are > >>> the other odds and ends? Could you please expand on these so I can get > >>> started on these this weekend? > >>> > >> I guess "extra repo entry" refers to the ability of Anaconda in Fedora > >> Development tree to use any yum software repository during installation > >> itself so that you can select and install packages from Fedora Extras > >> and any custom defined repository by providing the url > > > > Correct. Note that there's also another tiny change pending here to add > > easy checkbox access to Extras and the currently available updates > > (well, I'm not 100% sold on the latter... but definitely the former). I > > hope to land that today or tomorrow. > > Yay. Jeremy rocks. I would love to have direct access to updates within > the installer as a *option*. I know regressions on updates would make > this messy but the right solution is to avoid regressions anyway. > > > > >> You can talk to Jeremy in #fedora-devel Freenode IRC channel or mail > >> katz at redhat.com (cc'ed) to discussion these things further. > > > > Yep -- also, if you want me to review things, just let me know. > > > > Cool. Now if we get Pirut to work on media and nfs trees, Puplet by > default, Pup with the Luke Macken's cool new UI and spicy notifications > I am almost sold. Network manager by default would be even better but > that maybe asking for too much ;-) Puplet is on by default in Rawhide as of yesterday (i.e. yum-updatesd is enabled out of the box). -- Paul W. Frields, RHCE http://paul.frields.org/ gpg fingerprint: 3DA6 A0AC 6D58 FEC4 0233 5906 ACDB C937 BD11 3717 Fedora Project Board: http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Board Fedora Docs Project: http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/DocsProject -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: signature.asc Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 189 bytes Desc: This is a digitally signed message part URL: From kwade at redhat.com Tue Aug 22 03:13:55 2006 From: kwade at redhat.com (Karsten Wade) Date: Mon, 21 Aug 2006 20:13:55 -0700 Subject: Focus on two guides for FC6 and a schedule In-Reply-To: <44E8838A.4020808@fedoraproject.org> References: <1155596028.2572.88.camel@erato.phig.org> <1155908830.7022.16.camel@compaqlaptop.theglaserfamily.org> <1155960252.2610.298.camel@erato.phig.org> <1156086288.24867.8.camel@compaqlaptop.theglaserfamily.org> <44E8838A.4020808@fedoraproject.org> Message-ID: <1156216435.29563.41.camel@erato.phig.org> On Sun, 2006-08-20 at 21:15 +0530, Rahul wrote: > Scott Glaser wrote: > > > What I can do is compile a list of the links that look to be docs > > compliant (no questionable content). I have started a list here: > > > > http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/ScottGlaser/DesktopUsersGuideUnityLinks > > > > As I go through more of the content I will update this list. I hope > > this helps. > > Documents on installing software and editing configuration in the > terminal while being useful are out of scope for this guide. We can capture these under other draft guides, though, so feel free to continue to organize. - Karsten -- Karsten Wade, RHCE, 108 Editor ^ Fedora Documentation Project Sr. Developer Relations Mgr. | fedoraproject.org/wiki/DocsProject quaid.108.redhat.com | gpg key: AD0E0C41 ////////////////////////////////// \\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\ -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: signature.asc Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 189 bytes Desc: This is a digitally signed message part URL: From stickster at gmail.com Tue Aug 22 14:53:38 2006 From: stickster at gmail.com (Paul W. Frields) Date: Tue, 22 Aug 2006 10:53:38 -0400 Subject: Focus on two guides for FC6 and a schedule In-Reply-To: <1156216435.29563.41.camel@erato.phig.org> References: <1155596028.2572.88.camel@erato.phig.org> <1155908830.7022.16.camel@compaqlaptop.theglaserfamily.org> <1155960252.2610.298.camel@erato.phig.org> <1156086288.24867.8.camel@compaqlaptop.theglaserfamily.org> <44E8838A.4020808@fedoraproject.org> <1156216435.29563.41.camel@erato.phig.org> Message-ID: <1156258418.6077.5.camel@localhost.localdomain> On Mon, 2006-08-21 at 20:13 -0700, Karsten Wade wrote: > On Sun, 2006-08-20 at 21:15 +0530, Rahul wrote: > > Scott Glaser wrote: > > > > > What I can do is compile a list of the links that look to be docs > > > compliant (no questionable content). I have started a list here: > > > > > > http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/ScottGlaser/DesktopUsersGuideUnityLinks > > > > > > As I go through more of the content I will update this list. I hope > > > this helps. > > > > Documents on installing software and editing configuration in the > > terminal while being useful are out of scope for this guide. > > We can capture these under other draft guides, though, so feel free to > continue to organize. Right, I seem to remember a System Administration Guide in there somewhere... ah, yes: http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Docs/Drafts/AdministrationGuide Generally though, guides are not a great place for "Add this other non-default software and then you'll *really* be cooking!" stuff. Small tutorials are perfect, though. If you can find a bunch that fit together well, and meet a sensible set of user requirements -- not just one guy's recipe for his favorite software combos -- I don't see why we couldn't get that into publication. For example, a Wireless Tutorial would be good. It would probably have to be restricted to ipw2100/2200/2915/3945 and any other software which we can legally point to for end-users. We could then include the NetworkManager setup (all four lines of it) as well. -- Paul W. Frields, RHCE http://paul.frields.org/ gpg fingerprint: 3DA6 A0AC 6D58 FEC4 0233 5906 ACDB C937 BD11 3717 Fedora Project Board: http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Board Fedora Docs Project: http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/DocsProject -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: signature.asc Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 189 bytes Desc: This is a digitally signed message part URL: From stickster at gmail.com Tue Aug 22 19:07:45 2006 From: stickster at gmail.com (Paul W. Frields) Date: Tue, 22 Aug 2006 15:07:45 -0400 Subject: After-meeting IRC "social" Message-ID: <1156273665.6077.8.camel@localhost.localdomain> I'll be hanging around on Freenode IRC #fedora-docs after today's steering committee meeting to answer questions and help people get started with DocBook XML. That meeting goes from 4pm until 5pm, at which point I'll just probably start yapping. Even if you can't hang around at your keyboard, leave your IRC client logged in and you can capture the buffer. Mmm, buffer. Anyone who wants to ask crazy, off-the-wall DocBook or toolchain questions related to FDP, please come on by! (Sorry about the late notice. If there are a lot of "Aww, I missed it!" emails, we may repeat the offer next week.) :-) -- Paul W. Frields, RHCE http://paul.frields.org/ gpg fingerprint: 3DA6 A0AC 6D58 FEC4 0233 5906 ACDB C937 BD11 3717 Fedora Project Board: http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Board Fedora Docs Project: http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/DocsProject -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: signature.asc Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 189 bytes Desc: This is a digitally signed message part URL: From stickster at gmail.com Tue Aug 22 22:30:07 2006 From: stickster at gmail.com (Paul W. Frields) Date: Tue, 22 Aug 2006 18:30:07 -0400 Subject: IRC & Gobby session: DocBook XML Message-ID: <1156285807.27811.24.camel@localhost.localdomain> A few people came by IRC and we started up a gobby[1] session to talk about how DocBook XML works. Below you'll find the IRC log and the subsequent gobby log. I've edited them slightly for readability. I'm also attaching copies of the documents we used, inline where they make sense. Hopefully people can read this from beginning to end and the flow generally makes sense, even when we hopped from IRC onto gobby. There's a bit of Emacs-specific stuff in there[2], but the bulk is devoted to DocBook XML and how to start writing it using Your Favorite Editor. [1] gobby: Interactive, collaborative document editor (available in Fedora Extras) [2] And yes, I was very fair to users of vi (several of whom were in attendance). Arguments and flames to /dev/null please. ;-) ### ### IRC LOG FOLLOWS ### ### OK, this might be weird with no one asking questions, but here goes... Hands down, the best possible way to write documentation for Linux or Fedora is DocBook XML. Hm, haven't learned that. XML is a markup language that looks on its face a lot like HTML. And in fact, it really isn't that different at all. I never understood how the Wiki was entangled with XML and the final output of documentation. Aha! So I've found someone who wants to ask questions. Well, skip my stupid intro then, and let's get down to brass tacks. The "entanglement" is that we wanted a place where people could write documents easily without having to learn anything *at first.* So quaid has been working with a Summer of Code intern to have a way to take documents written on the wiki and convert them (more or less) to DocBook XML. Hm The sticky, unavoidable problem is that DocBook allows you to mark a document -- if you want -- with fairly detailed and exact information. The Wiki simply can't do it -- not without so many hacks that no one would want to run the resulting code But what we can do is have the Wiki -> DocBook converter make some educated guesses based on how the writer formats the document. That's why we require specific tagging like `this` for a file or program, '''this''' for the name of a GUI application, and so on The converter reads that and turns it into a "best-guess" DocBook document. An editor can then go through the document and tag it correctly. Aah. Like HTML, XML uses tags to mark elements. So a filename in DocBook XML looks like this: /etc/services However, on the Wiki, a filename is marked like `/etc/services`, a program is marked like `yum`, and a package name is marked like `yum-utils`. So the converter will often tag wrong, and someone has to correct it in the XML version. The converter can't tell whether `yum` is a file name, program name, or package name. But in DocBook you can! In DocBook these would be yum, yum, or yum. (The last one is actually an approximation since the DocBook version we use doesn't yet have an exact markup for "package.") Hm Once we have it marked up correctly, though -- how do you get it back onto the wiki? According to some people, the answer is "You don't." Because every time you had corrections, the version coming *back* from the Wiki would be wrong. Again. So then, does it cause problems to edit in the Wiki? Is the eventual goal to have everyone using XML? Problems? No. At least not at first. In other words, the drafting can and should be done on the Wiki. It's a great place for people to collaborate when they don't know how to use DocBook or CVS yet. As for the second question -- it depends on whom you ask. My personal feeling is that yes, we do want people to work using XML and CVS, because those can be just as collaborative as a Wiki. What we *don't* want is to scare people off before they get their feet wet. Ok. So what if someone wanted to work on something, say DUG, but wanted to use XML? that would be a perfect mess, since someone using the Wiki and someone using CVS with XML would be using different versions. In other words, if you like writing and working on docs, after working on the Wiki for a little while, you will probably get eager to try your hand at DocBook and CVS. cdehaan: *Exactly.* I like the idea of having one system better, but that's tough, since the stuff I'm working on now (albeit very, very minute), are on the Wiki. The solution to this problem is that drafting should be done in the wiki -- as long as the participants are all happy to do so -- and once a draft is done, it can be converted to DocBook. By that point the contributors should be ready to try the Better Way of doing business. ;-) Now, keep in mind this isn't coming from someone who is a hard-core programmer, or a kernel hacker. I prefer HTML-style markup, though I'm not familiar with XML. HTML is what I do. I knew *NOTHING* about DocBook, or XML, or CVS, before I started with this project. DocBook XML is as easy as HTML. The idea is exactly the same. You're probably already familiar with XHTML then. cdehaan: What may trouble you at first is the number of elements you can use in DocBook. I see After all, most people can handle the easy , , ,

,

and so forth in simple HTML cdehaan: So the idea with DocBook is that you typically are writing an

Inside the
you can have other elements. You don't have to use all of them; most are optional. i see. cdehaan: I was thinking, maybe a gobby instance would help... are you on a FC5 box? Now that I know this, I really think it's detrimental to the progress of things to have some things Wiki, some CVS. I'm on OS X at the moment. Oh, OK. Well, no then. My MacBook (With FC5) is in for repair (surprise) Heh. gobby runs on OS X Apparently Oh, well if you want to set it up real quick, I am going to try and get a server working here. I have no idea how to do it, but I bet it's a simple process. I will do that. It looks to be easy on Windows. I'll go to my Windows box. BRB ### ### ### ### ### a few minutes later, and after a couple false starts... ### GOBBY LOG STARTS ### ### ### ### hey hey. I'm going to clear out this document for a fresh start. OK Aah. So here's how we start a document. ### ### ### ### ### ### ### ### ### Indeed. That's pretty much verbatim. Never changes. o> It's just a signifier that the rest of the document will be an XML 1.0 document of some type, yet unknown. Next, we put in a "document type declaration" or DTD that explains EXACTLY what type of XML document this is. ### ### ### ### ### ### ### ### ### Note the DTD has five pieces inside a entity: 1. DOCTYPE -- in other words, this is a DTD entitiy 2. article -- the top level element of this document is a DocBook "article". You can actually make smaller pieces than that, and they're perfectly legal. That in fact is how we combine "chapter" pieces into a "book". 3. PUBLIC -- that means that the next piece of the DTD is a public identifier (well-known) that describes this document's allowed elements, attributes, etc. If it wasn't PUBLIC it would be SYSTEM, which would mean some URI on your local box, so you can write XML without a well-known public DTD, like some private DTD you've made up for your own use. anyhoo... 4. "-//OASIS//DTD DocBook XML V4.4//EN" -- that's called the FPI string, which is the public identifier for DocBook XML, version 4.4 It always looks just like that. If you don't type it right, some tools will act strangely. So copy it from somewhere that works, or just learn from your mistakes like I did. :-D 5. "http://docbook.org/xml/4.4/docbookx.dtd" -- that is also a well-known URL for the actual DTD that describes DocBook XML V4.4. There's another one at a different URL located at OASIS web site: http://www.oasis-open.org/docbook/xml/4.4/docbookx.dtd is the right one, I think. OK... So basically what we've done is declared what type of language/document is to follow? Exactly! If you still don't know what a DTD is, here's the scoop: For things like DocBook, it's a huge bunch of stuff that's not fun to read, but which describes how the DocBook schema works. What we've done with this "entity" is to declare that for any tool that understands how to parse or validate XML, it will find all the rules it needs to understand this particular schema at the noted URL. Then the tool can do all the work for you, like checking that your document is valid. Generally, if you know you're writing an
, you can just copy this from some other article with absolutely zero work on your part. Since #2 element was an article, that means that our top-level element is (must be) an
. What if "#2 element" is NOT article... Well, your computer won't start smoking or anything, but validation tools will tell you that your document is invalid. Ok And all the fun little helpful stuff in Emacs or vi will start giving you warnings But our opening tag should always correspond to the element? Yes Alrighty That is always true in DocBook XML and may be true for other DTDs as well OK, so now that we have an article, what can we put in it? More tags Right. In fact, in many cases you can't just start typing text, because it would be "invalid" according to the DTD. This, for example, is invalid: ### ### ### ### ### ### ### ###
### This is my article. Isn't it great? ###
### ### ### ### Now, that *IS* what we call "well-formed" XML, because all the tags open and close without overlapping each other. Just like HTML, right? It may be "well-formed," but it isn't "valid." Because the DocBook DTD tells us that you're not allowed to just type text in your article like that. (short footnote: From time to time, I might get particular DTD details wrong. It's not like I've memorized the whole thing. I'm used to doing things a certain way, and there's a chance -- a pretty good one in fact -- that I could be wrong about where you can and can't do things.) Aha, I can demonstrate this! I'm going to start another document which you guys should join. I'll post my command lines there along with the output. ok I'm using an FC5 box, so I'll describe that environment. If you do a "yum groupinstall 'Authoring and Publishing'" you will get all the tools I am using. Including the one above. If I save the XML document we just wrote, and run that xmllint command, here's what the output looks like: ### ### ### ### ### $ xmllint --postvalid docbook-test.xml ### ### ###
### This is my article. Isn't it great? ###
### docbook-test.xml:5: element article: validity error : Element article content does not follow the DTD, expecting ((title , subtitle? , titleabbrev?)? , articleinfo? , tocchap? , lot* , (((calloutlist | glosslist | bibliolist | itemizedlist | orderedlist | segmentedlist | simplelist | variablelist | caution | important | note | tip | warning | literallayout | programlisting | programlistingco | screen | screenco | screenshot | synopsis | cmdsynopsis | funcsynopsis | classsynopsis | fieldsynopsis | constructorsynopsis | destructorsynopsis | methodsynopsis | formalpara | para | simpara | address | blockquote | graphic | graphicco | mediaobject | mediaobjectco | informalequation | informalexample | informalfigure | informaltable | equation | example | figure | table | msgset | procedure | sidebar | qandaset | task | anchor | bridgehead | remark | highlights | abstract | authorblurb | epigraph | indexterm | beginpage)+ , (sect1* | refentry* | simplesect* | section*)) | sect1+ | refentry+ | simplesect+ | section+) , ((toc | lot | index | glossary | bibliography) | appendix | ackno)*), got (CDATA) ### Document docbook-test.xml does not validate ### ### ### ### Aha! Check it out. The validator tells me that I goofed up. It doesn't follow the DTD -- xmllint just told me so. (Read error message closely for details.) Starting on line 5, where I typed some text inside the
element, I goofed. The validator was expecting -- well... something else. All those names and markings reflect the real DTD expectations. (a, b, c) means any one of , , or , for example. Question marks mean "optional," + means "one or more," and * means "zero or more" Now -- DON'T PANIC. You don't have to remember ANY of this stuff. Heh as eyes glaze over This is only a nice little reminder that you did something wrong. If you want to find out how to write a document, you don't read xmllint output. :-) The best idea is to look at a document that's already written, and follow its lead. But an idea that is second only to that in goodness is to download or bookmark "DocBook: The Definitive Guide," which is available for download free on the web. http://www.docbook.org/ You don't have to do it now, just hold on to that for later. I will try and find a link to directions to getting the exact V4.4 version out of their CVS, since the one on the web is for beta-5.0 OK . . . Now, let's see what happens when I put my document in the correct form. Heh Oops. ### ### ### ### ### ### ### ###
### My Article ### ### This is my article. Isn't it great? ### ###
### ### ### ### OK, I just corrected the article if you'd like to look at it Ok, simple tags. Yup, I kept it REALLY simple for this demonstration. Our articles for FDP have quite a bit more information, but even what we use is not that complicated. Now, I'm going to show you the new validation in the shell-output.txt doc. There's the command. ### ### ### ### ### $ xmllint --noout --postvalid docbook-test.xml ### $ ### ### ### ### And the output is: NOTHING. Sweet. WB Bob! The "--noout" means I don't want xmllint to output the parsed document (which usually looks very much like the input), but rather just tell me if there's a problem. In this case -- like most Linux commands -- if you don't see output, everything worked fine. Valid document! Cool. You type the command, if you see no output whatsoever, it's good? Yup. Now, I did that at a command line, but normally I don't even do that. I write all my DocBook in Emacs along with the "psgml" package installed. Along with a short configuration file, it means I can do all of this work right in the editor. MOREOVER -- Emacs WILL NOT LET ME MAKE A MISTAKE unless I force it to do so. Oh? At what point does it intervene? saving? There's about -- hmm -- maybe TEN special keystrokes I learned to edit DocBook documents. To open an element, I use either Ctrl+< or Ctrl+C, Ctrl+E If I then use the [Tab] key, Emacs will do autocompletion -- and it ONLY provides the valid tags. If I really want to, it will let me type something wrong, but that would be kind of silly. I see. If I hit [Tab][Tab], like bash, it will open up a frame with the available elements (tags) in it Cool To close an open element, I use the Ctrl+/ key combo. If I want to validate a document I'm done drafting, I use Ctrl+C, Ctrl+V key sequence. Sorry, that last one should have been Ctrl+C, Ctrl+/ to close an element Most key sequences like this in Emacs are Ctrl+C, There's lots of other functions, too -- I can block a whole region and then put it in an element I can sit somewhere in a tagged region and change the element it's in Many others. But there's only around 7 - 10 functions that I needed to learn to get started. Cool It's not GUI, and it's not WYSIWYG, but what you give up in mouse-ability you more than make up for in PHENOMENAL COSMIC POWER Many UNIX gurus I know do everything in Emacs. I've never used it, so I'll have to check it out. I'm not at that level... but it's the dog's bollocks for DocBook. I presently use vi for text editing vi also has many adherents. Tommy Reynolds, one of our resident gurus, is a big vi fan. I don't bother arguing with him about it, and I won't bother arguing with you about it either. USE WHAT WORKS. But there's no denying that DocBook XML is the absolute best way to do markup for technical documentation. /me uses vim Eh, if emacs makes it that easy, no reason not to use it. Once you have a document in DocBook, you can turn it into (X)HTML, TeX, PDF... I think vim probably has some kind of similar support. I have no idea how it works. I used to be a big-time vi lover but after I tried Emacs for DocBook, I never went back. Now I only use Emacs. You can probably find people who are the exact opposite. The key is, use an editor that (1) supports XML, and (2) supports DTD parsing and validation. If it does that, DocBook writing becomes SUPER-easy. The editor keeps you from making DTD-related mistakes like incorrect element names or placement, and you can just concentrate on your document instead. It is worth reading DocBook: The Definitive Guide to get a handle on what DocBook's all about, and here's what I use that book most for -- I downloaded it to my local disk, and it has a big list of every element in alphabetical order. If I'm looking for a tag that does X, I look up "X" in the Table of Contents and it's usually there, or something like it. If I am talking about a keyboard key, I look up "key" and voila! There's "keycap". After you use a tag a few times, it sticks with you. So now, just like I know that
something
does stuff in HTML, I know that CtrlC does stuff in DocBook It keeps you from having to decide, "Hmm, should I write Applications -> Internet, or Applications => Internet?" Nope, instead you just do ApplicationsInternet When you render it to HTML it comes out with the neat little arrows inserted because they're part of the stylesheets for turning DocBook into HTML. So.. . . Does this make it a little less terrifying? This was all *completely* new to me just a few years ago. quaid, Tammy Fox, and a couple other nice folks taught me what I needed to know, and the rest you just kind of pick up as you go along. It makes perfect sense Basically just learning tags and using a good editor. If only I'd had Gobby when I started!!! :-) Heh :) Now, next week we'll tackle CVS. :-) Is this a good time for doing this? I know some of you are in different TZ it works. *I* probably won't be on next week, as next Tuesday I'll be moving into my dorm. No problem But in the fairly near future, yes. Maybe we'll shoot for a different time. I'll start a thread in fedora-docs-list and people can get back to me with a time that works. OK then, thanks for coming by, everybody! Thanks for the intro! You're welcome, thanks for helping with FDP OK Eitch, I'm going to close up shop here ### ### ### ### END TRANSCRIPT ### -- Paul W. Frields, RHCE http://paul.frields.org/ gpg fingerprint: 3DA6 A0AC 6D58 FEC4 0233 5906 ACDB C937 BD11 3717 Fedora Project Board: http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Board Fedora Docs Project: http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/DocsProject -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: signature.asc Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 189 bytes Desc: This is a digitally signed message part URL: From stickster at gmail.com Tue Aug 22 22:49:28 2006 From: stickster at gmail.com (Paul W. Frields) Date: Tue, 22 Aug 2006 18:49:28 -0400 Subject: Munch 'N' Learn: CVS Message-ID: <1156286968.27811.40.camel@localhost.localdomain> I've decided that's what I'm calling these sessions, since it's my hope that people show up at their keyboard with their favorite snack. Please observe the following Munch 'N' Learn Guidelines: 1. "Munch" means snack. Pick something that's not deadly, like veggies or rice cakes. Or alternatively, shake the bag before you eat any, so the calories fall down to the bottom. 2. As we discovered in the first session, having gobby 0.3.1 installed is helpful! (On Fedora Core, use yum or pirut, or if you're on another OS, visit http://darcs.0x539.de/trac/obby/cgi-bin/trac.cgi for downloads and more information.) 3. Bring questions, an open mind, and a willingness to learn! 4. Nope, there's no 4, I was just messin' witchoo. Having a Munch 'N' Learn with more than 3 steps would be stupid. Anyway, we're going to have another one of these sessions soon for CVS. It's our hope in FDP that contributors will get started drafting on the Wiki because it's easier for new folks. As you learn the ropes though, you'll find that most of our vital work goes on using DocBook XML files kept in CVS. The inaugural Munch 'N' Learn was all about DocBook XML, and next we're going to show you how to use CVS. We're even going to have a CVS repository up for everyone to actually run commands live! I'd like to try this next week some time, but I can't do any session before 2100 or 9:00pm UTC (currently 5:00pm EDT/2:00pm PDT). If I set this up for Thursday night at 9:00pm UTC, how would that work for everyone? If you plan to attend, drop a reply (ON-list) to this message, or let me know a better time. -- Paul W. Frields, RHCE http://paul.frields.org/ gpg fingerprint: 3DA6 A0AC 6D58 FEC4 0233 5906 ACDB C937 BD11 3717 Fedora Project Board: http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Board Fedora Docs Project: http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/DocsProject -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: signature.asc Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 189 bytes Desc: This is a digitally signed message part URL: From mhideo at redhat.com Wed Aug 23 01:17:47 2006 From: mhideo at redhat.com (Michael H. Smith) Date: Wed, 23 Aug 2006 11:17:47 +1000 Subject: [Fwd: FW: stcetsig-l digest: August 15, 2006] Message-ID: <1156295868.4028.20.camel@localhost.localdomain> FYI. STC will have open source educational tracks at next year's conference and they are looking for presenters. making good progress on this front. -----Original Message----- From: Ed Marshall [mailto:ed.marshall at verizon.net] Sent: Wednesday, August 16, 2006 5:45 PM To: Jacob, Lizy Saji (STSD); bhaskara at amazon.com Subject: FW: stcetsig-l digest: August 15, 2006 -----Original Message----- From: bounce-stcetsig-l-285798 at lists.stc.org [mailto:bounce-stcetsig-l-285798 at lists.stc.org] On Behalf Of STC Emerging Technologies SIG discussions digest Sent: Wednesday, August 16, 2006 2:03 AM To: stcetsig-l digest recipients Subject: stcetsig-l digest: August 15, 2006 STCETSIG-L Digest for Tuesday, August 15, 2006. 1. Call for Open Source Progression presenters at annual STC Conference in Minneapolis ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Subject: Call for Open Source Progression presenters at annual STC Conference in Minneapolis From: "Dan Charles" Date: Tue, 15 Aug 2006 08:35:48 -0600 X-Message-Number: 1 Believe it or not, it's time to submit proposals for next year's conference. If you are interested in presenting at the ET SIG Open Source progression, please let me know by August 28. The progression topics are targeted to people unfamiliar with open source technology. We do three sessions of about 30 minutes each. You only need about 10 - 15 minutes of content to leave time for questions. Handouts are always appreciated. We are looking for 8-10 people. Potential topics include: - What the heck is open source? - When does open source make sense? - Open source resources - Open Office - Anything else you can think of that is related to open source, and may be of interest to other technical communicators If you would like to participate, please send the following information by August 23: - Topic title (no more than 8 words), which clearly identifies your proposal content - Detailed description (no more than 150 words), which clarifies the content of your proposal. - Key learning objectives (3 to 5 bullet points) ****New item***** - Your name - Company - Snail mail address - Phone and fax numbers - E-mail address - Two references *****New item - more details to come - Sources cited *****New item - more details to come I hope to see all of you in Minneapolis next May! --- END OF DIGEST --- You are currently subscribed to stcetsig-l as: ed.marshall at verizon.net To unsubscribe send a blank email to leave-stcetsig-l-285798M at lists.stc.org -- Michael H. Smith Associate Red Hat Asia-Pacific Ph: +61 7 3514 8103 Level 2/5 Gardner Close Mb: +61 418 182 451 Milton, QLD 4064 Fx: +61 7 3514 8199 Australia From Tommy.Reynolds at MegaCoder.com Wed Aug 23 02:13:38 2006 From: Tommy.Reynolds at MegaCoder.com (Tommy Reynolds) Date: Tue, 22 Aug 2006 19:13:38 -0700 Subject: IRC & Gobby session: DocBook XML In-Reply-To: <1156285807.27811.24.camel@localhost.localdomain> References: <1156285807.27811.24.camel@localhost.localdomain> Message-ID: <20060822191338.62dddc4e.Tommy.Reynolds@MegaCoder.com> Uttered "Paul W. Frields" , spake thus: > A few people came by IRC and we started up a gobby[1] session to talk > about how DocBook XML works. Paul, This is a really good idea. I think you've all done very well. > vi also has many adherents. Tommy Reynolds, one of our > resident gurus, is a big vi fan. I don't bother arguing with him about > it, and I won't bother arguing with you about it either. Since my name has been mentioned in vain, I shall respond in kind ;-) I use vi because I've used vi since about 1980 IIRC; it's melded with my DNA by now. However, I use jEdit (http://jedit.org) to edit structured documents. Once the new GCC classpath migrates out, and jedit gets compiled native, you will too. Until then, it requires a JVM. But I'm not arguing. USE WHAT WORKS. Editor diversity is the least of our problems. -- I'm already an anomaly, I shall soon be an anachronism, and I have every intention of dying an abuse! -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 189 bytes Desc: not available URL: From cepxat at gmail.com Wed Aug 23 10:03:58 2006 From: cepxat at gmail.com (=?ISO-8859-1?Q?Serhat_G=FCng=F6r?=) Date: Wed, 23 Aug 2006 13:03:58 +0300 Subject: CVS access In-Reply-To: <1155900423.17283.3.camel@localhost.localdomain> References: <6894514e0607250842q6920cb0m1866214510f41c8@mail.gmail.com> <1154115959.28960.51.camel@erato.phig.org> <1154116568.18527.7.camel@localhost.localdomain> <6894514e0608130420i47989b01t3d3bb7800eaa931e@mail.gmail.com> <1155900423.17283.3.camel@localhost.localdomain> Message-ID: <6894514e0608230303h59cee70fn8857a3d0b58b7a33@mail.gmail.com> On 8/18/06, Paul W. Frields wrote: > > On Sun, 2006-08-13 at 14:20 +0300, Serhat G?ng?r wrote: > > Hi, > > Is there any change in the sponsorship. I am waiting nearly 3 weeks > > and I still can't access to the CVS. And our time for translation is > > becoming lesser. > > Could anyone approve my account and so that I can start working. When > > I login to the fedora account page, I see cvsdocs group unapproved as > > the following. > > Serhat, I see no one got back to you yet; sorry for the delay, some of > our folks are away for various reasons. Do you have a second person > available to help you with translation? If not, we can still give you > provisional access so you can do translations until either you have an > assistant, or we can get docs integrated with other translation efforts. Actually I don't have any other person avaliable for document translation. For this situation provisional access will be good. In this time maybe i can find an assistant from the distro translation group. I am waiting the CVS access now. Thanks for your help, Best Regards. Serhat -- > Paul W. Frields, RHCE http://paul.frields.org/ > gpg fingerprint: 3DA6 A0AC 6D58 FEC4 0233 5906 ACDB C937 BD11 3717 > Fedora Project Board: http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Board > Fedora Docs Project: http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/DocsProject > > > -- > fedora-docs-list mailing list > fedora-docs-list at redhat.com > To unsubscribe: > https://www.redhat.com/mailman/listinfo/fedora-docs-list > > > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From ccheng at redhat.com Wed Aug 23 13:19:07 2006 From: ccheng at redhat.com (Chester Cheng) Date: Wed, 23 Aug 2006 23:19:07 +1000 Subject: CVS access In-Reply-To: <6894514e0608230303h59cee70fn8857a3d0b58b7a33@mail.gmail.com> References: <6894514e0607250842q6920cb0m1866214510f41c8@mail.gmail.com> <1154115959.28960.51.camel@erato.phig.org> <1154116568.18527.7.camel@localhost.localdomain> <6894514e0608130420i47989b01t3d3bb7800eaa931e@mail.gmail.com> <1155900423.17283.3.camel@localhost.localdomain> <6894514e0608230303h59cee70fn8857a3d0b58b7a33@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <44EC55CB.9050404@redhat.com> Hi Serhat, Your account has been approved on 2006-01-28 03:48:11. However, I don't think the public key is correct. Could you send your public key as an attachment to me so I can replace it for you? Thanks. Regards, Chester Serhat G?ng?r ??: > > > On 8/18/06, *Paul W. Frields* > wrote: > > On Sun, 2006-08-13 at 14:20 +0300, Serhat G?ng?r wrote: > > Hi, > > Is there any change in the sponsorship. I am waiting nearly 3 weeks > > and I still can't access to the CVS. And our time for translation is > > becoming lesser. > > Could anyone approve my account and so that I can start working. > When > > I login to the fedora account page, I see cvsdocs group > unapproved as > > the following. > > Serhat, I see no one got back to you yet; sorry for the delay, > some of > our folks are away for various reasons. Do you have a second person > available to help you with translation? If not, we can still give you > provisional access so you can do translations until either you have an > assistant, or we can get docs integrated with other translation > efforts. > > > Actually I don't have any other person avaliable for document > translation. For this situation provisional access will be good. In > this time maybe i can find an assistant from the distro translation > group. > > I am waiting the CVS access now. > > Thanks for your help, > Best Regards. > > Serhat > > -- > Paul W. Frields, RHCE http://paul.frields.org/ > gpg fingerprint: 3DA6 A0AC 6D58 FEC4 0233 5906 ACDB C937 BD11 3717 > Fedora Project Board: http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Board > Fedora Docs Project: http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/DocsProject > > > -- > fedora-docs-list mailing list > fedora-docs-list at redhat.com > To unsubscribe: > https://www.redhat.com/mailman/listinfo/fedora-docs-list > > > > From samfw at redhat.com Wed Aug 23 14:22:06 2006 From: samfw at redhat.com (Sam Folk-Williams) Date: Wed, 23 Aug 2006 10:22:06 -0400 Subject: Munch 'N' Learn: CVS In-Reply-To: <1156286968.27811.40.camel@localhost.localdomain> References: <1156286968.27811.40.camel@localhost.localdomain> Message-ID: <20060823142205.GH27150@unplugged.rdu.redhat.com> On 08/22/06 18:49 -0400 Paul W. Frields wrote: > I'd like to try this next week some time, but I can't do any session > before 2100 or 9:00pm UTC (currently 5:00pm EDT/2:00pm PDT). If I set > this up for Thursday night at 9:00pm UTC, how would that work for > everyone? If you plan to attend, drop a reply (ON-list) to this > message, or let me know a better time. I can't promise I wont choose a veggie or rice cake as my snack, but I would love to do this. 5:00 EDT on 8/31 works for me. Sam > > -- > Paul W. Frields, RHCE http://paul.frields.org/ > gpg fingerprint: 3DA6 A0AC 6D58 FEC4 0233 5906 ACDB C937 BD11 3717 > Fedora Project Board: http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Board > Fedora Docs Project: http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/DocsProject > -- > fedora-docs-list mailing list > fedora-docs-list at redhat.com > To unsubscribe: > https://www.redhat.com/mailman/listinfo/fedora-docs-list -- Sam Folk-Williams, RHCE Red Hat Global Support Services Phone: 919/754-4558 GPG ID: 1B0D46BA From jwilson at redhat.com Thu Aug 24 15:25:11 2006 From: jwilson at redhat.com (Jarod Wilson) Date: Thu, 24 Aug 2006 11:25:11 -0400 Subject: Proposed new document: Kexec/Kdump Usage Guide Message-ID: <1156433111.7490.11.camel@xavier.boston.redhat.com> I've got a basic kexec/kdump usage guide slapped together, just itching to see the light of day. Sounds like I need to propose it here and get approval before publishing it, as well as get added to the DocWritersGroup (or is that necessary for a draft?). First draft of kexec/kdump usage guide attached in text form. -- Jarod Wilson jwilson at redhat.com -------------- next part -------------- Kexec/Kdump HOWTO Introduction Kexec and kdump are new features in the 2.6 mainstream kernel. Major portions of the features are now in Fedora Core 5 and later releases. The purpose of these features is to ensure faster boot up and creation of reliable kernel vmcores for diagnostic purposes. Overview Kexec Kexec is a fastboot mechanism which allows booting a Linux kernel from the context of already running kernel without going through BIOS. BIOS can be very time consuming especially on the big servers with lots of peripherals. This can save a lot of time for developers who end up booting a machine numerous times. Kdump Kdump is a new kernel crash dumping mechanism and is very reliable because the crash dump is captured from the context of a freshly booted kernel and not from the context of the crashed kernel. Kdump uses kexec to boot into a second kernel whenever system crashes. This second kernel, often called a capture kernel, boots with very little memory and captures the dump image. The first kernel reserves a section of memory that the second kernel uses to boot. Kexec enables booting the capture kernel without going through BIOS hence contents of first kernel's memory are preserved, which is essentially the kernel crash dump. At this point in time, the standard kernel and capture kernel (kernel-kdump) are two different entities, but work is underway to make the standard kernel relocatable (within memory), and thus usable as a capture kernel, eliminating the need for a separate kdump kernel. This feature is currently targeted for delivery as part of Fedora Core 6's General Availability release. How to configure kexec: First up, install kexec-tools: # yum install kexec-tools Now load a kernel with kexec: # kver=`uname -r` # kexec -l /boot/vmlinuz-$kver --initrd=/boot/initrd-$kver.img \ --command-line="`cat /proc/cmdline`" NOTE: The above will boot you back into the kernel you're currently running, if you want to load a different kernel, substitute it in place of `uname -r`. Now reboot your system, taking note that it should bypass the BIOS: # reboot How to configure kdump: To start off, make sure kernel-kdump, kexec-tools and crash are installed: # yum install kernel-kdump kexec-tools crash To be able to do much of anything interesting in the way of debug analysis, you'll want to install the kernel-debuginfo package: # yum --enablerepo=\*debuginfo install kernel-debuginfo Next up, we need to modify some boot parameters to reserve a chunk of memory for the capture kernel. For i386 and x86_64, edit /etc/grub.conf, and append "crashkernel=128M at 16M" to the end of your kernel line. Similarly, append the same to the append line in /etc/yaboot.conf for ppc64, followed by a /sbin/ybin to load the new configuration (not needed for grub). Examples: # cat /etc/grub.conf # grub.conf generated by anaconda # # Note that you do not have to rerun grub after making changes to this file # NOTICE: You have a /boot partition. This means that # all kernel and initrd paths are relative to /boot/, eg. # root (hd0,0) # kernel /vmlinuz-version ro root=/dev/VolGroup00/root # initrd /initrd-version.img #boot=/dev/hda default=0 timeout=5 splashimage=(hd0,0)/grub/splash.xpm.gz hiddenmenu title Fedora Core (2.6.17-1.2570.fc6) root (hd0,0) kernel /vmlinuz-2.6.17-1.2570.fc6 ro root=/dev/VolGroup00/root crashkernel=128M at 16M initrd /initrd-2.6.17-1.2570.fc6.img # cat /etc/yaboot.conf # yaboot.conf generated by anaconda boot=/dev/sda1 init-message=Welcome to Fedora Core!\nHit for boot options partition=2 timeout=80 install=/usr/lib/yaboot/yaboot delay=5 enablecdboot enableofboot enablenetboot nonvram fstype=raw image=/vmlinuz-2.6.17-1.2570.fc6 label=linux read-only initrd=/initrd-2.6.17-1.2570.fc6.img append="root=LABEL=/ crashkernel=128M at 16M" After making said changes, reboot your system, so that the 128M of memory starting 16M into your memory is let untouched by the normal system, reserved for the capture kernel. Take note that the output of 'free -m' will show 128M less memory than without this parameter, which is expected. You may be able to get by with less than 128M, but testing with only 64M has proven unreliable of late. Now that you've got that reserved memory region set up, you want to turn on the kdump init script: # chkconfig kdump on Then, start up kdump as well: # service kdump start This should load your kernel-kdump image via kexec, leaving the system ready to capture a vmcore upon crashing. To test this out, you can force-crash your system by echo'ing a c into /proc/sysrq-trigger: # echo c > /proc/sysrq-trigger You should see some panic output, followed by the system restarting into the kdump kernel. When the boot process gets to the point where it starts the kdump service, your vmcore should be copied out to disk (by default, in /var/crash//vmcore), then the system rebooted back into your normal kernel. Once back to your normal kernel, you can use the previously installed crash kernel in conjunction with the previously installed kernel-debuginfo to perform postmortem analysis: # crash /usr/lib/debug/lib/modules/2.6.17-1.2570.fc6/vmlinux /var/crash/2006-08-23-15:34/vmcore crash> bt and so on... Caveats: Console frame-buffers and X are not properly supported. If you typically run with something along the lines of "vga=791" in your kernel config line or have X running, console video will be garbled when a kernel is booted via kexec. Note that the kdump kernel should still be able to create a dump, and when the system reboots, video should be restored to normal. -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: signature.asc Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 189 bytes Desc: This is a digitally signed message part URL: From stickster at gmail.com Thu Aug 24 16:58:37 2006 From: stickster at gmail.com (Paul W. Frields) Date: Thu, 24 Aug 2006 12:58:37 -0400 Subject: IRC & Gobby session: DocBook XML In-Reply-To: <20060822191338.62dddc4e.Tommy.Reynolds@MegaCoder.com> References: <1156285807.27811.24.camel@localhost.localdomain> <20060822191338.62dddc4e.Tommy.Reynolds@MegaCoder.com> Message-ID: <1156438717.10411.8.camel@localhost.localdomain> On Tue, 2006-08-22 at 19:13 -0700, Tommy Reynolds wrote: > But I'm not arguing. USE WHAT WORKS. Editor diversity is the least > of our problems. Tommy.beverage += 1 -- Paul W. Frields, RHCE http://paul.frields.org/ gpg fingerprint: 3DA6 A0AC 6D58 FEC4 0233 5906 ACDB C937 BD11 3717 Fedora Project Board: http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Board Fedora Docs Project: http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/DocsProject -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: signature.asc Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 189 bytes Desc: This is a digitally signed message part URL: From stickster at gmail.com Thu Aug 24 17:00:20 2006 From: stickster at gmail.com (Paul W. Frields) Date: Thu, 24 Aug 2006 13:00:20 -0400 Subject: Munch 'N' Learn: CVS In-Reply-To: <20060823142205.GH27150@unplugged.rdu.redhat.com> References: <1156286968.27811.40.camel@localhost.localdomain> <20060823142205.GH27150@unplugged.rdu.redhat.com> Message-ID: <1156438820.10411.11.camel@localhost.localdomain> On Wed, 2006-08-23 at 10:22 -0400, Sam Folk-Williams wrote: > On 08/22/06 18:49 -0400 Paul W. Frields wrote: > > I'd like to try this next week some time, but I can't do any session > > before 2100 or 9:00pm UTC (currently 5:00pm EDT/2:00pm PDT). If I set > > this up for Thursday night at 9:00pm UTC, how would that work for > > everyone? If you plan to attend, drop a reply (ON-list) to this > > message, or let me know a better time. > I can't promise I wont choose a veggie or rice cake as my snack, but I would > love to do this. 5:00 EDT on 8/31 works for me. And now, after having set a potential date, I have to renege. I can do Wednesday, 8/30 at 5:00 EDT (2100 UTC) if that works. Friday is also do-able although I'd prefer Wednesday. -- Paul W. Frields, RHCE http://paul.frields.org/ gpg fingerprint: 3DA6 A0AC 6D58 FEC4 0233 5906 ACDB C937 BD11 3717 Fedora Project Board: http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Board Fedora Docs Project: http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/DocsProject -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: signature.asc Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 189 bytes Desc: This is a digitally signed message part URL: From stickster at gmail.com Thu Aug 24 17:03:42 2006 From: stickster at gmail.com (Paul W. Frields) Date: Thu, 24 Aug 2006 13:03:42 -0400 Subject: Proposed new document: Kexec/Kdump Usage Guide In-Reply-To: <1156433111.7490.11.camel@xavier.boston.redhat.com> References: <1156433111.7490.11.camel@xavier.boston.redhat.com> Message-ID: <1156439022.10411.14.camel@localhost.localdomain> On Thu, 2006-08-24 at 11:25 -0400, Jarod Wilson wrote: > I've got a basic kexec/kdump usage guide slapped together, just itching > to see the light of day. Sounds like I need to propose it here and get > approval before publishing it, as well as get added to the > DocWritersGroup (or is that necessary for a draft?). > > First draft of kexec/kdump usage guide attached in text form. Looks pretty neat to me. Anybody want to try their hand at editing this, following accepted style guidelines and such? If you can convert it to DocBook, great -- otherwise, I'd be happy to do that part. -- Paul W. Frields, RHCE http://paul.frields.org/ gpg fingerprint: 3DA6 A0AC 6D58 FEC4 0233 5906 ACDB C937 BD11 3717 Fedora Project Board: http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Board Fedora Docs Project: http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/DocsProject -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: signature.asc Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 189 bytes Desc: This is a digitally signed message part URL: From jmbabich at gmail.com Thu Aug 24 20:21:03 2006 From: jmbabich at gmail.com (John Babich) Date: Thu, 24 Aug 2006 23:21:03 +0300 Subject: Munch 'N' Learn: CVS In-Reply-To: <1156438820.10411.11.camel@localhost.localdomain> References: <1156286968.27811.40.camel@localhost.localdomain> <20060823142205.GH27150@unplugged.rdu.redhat.com> <1156438820.10411.11.camel@localhost.localdomain> Message-ID: <9d2c731f0608241321g6a0d01f8k108ac7e26eac4e0d@mail.gmail.com> Paul: Wednesday is better for me. John B. On 8/24/06, Paul W. Frields wrote: > > On Wed, 2006-08-23 at 10:22 -0400, Sam Folk-Williams wrote: > > On 08/22/06 18:49 -0400 Paul W. Frields wrote: > > > I'd like to try this next week some time, but I can't do any session > > > before 2100 or 9:00pm UTC (currently 5:00pm EDT/2:00pm PDT). If I set > > > this up for Thursday night at 9:00pm UTC, how would that work for > > > everyone? If you plan to attend, drop a reply (ON-list) to this > > > message, or let me know a better time. > > > I can't promise I wont choose a veggie or rice cake as my snack, but I > would > > love to do this. 5:00 EDT on 8/31 works for me. > > And now, after having set a potential date, I have to renege. I can do > Wednesday, 8/30 at 5:00 EDT (2100 UTC) if that works. Friday is also > do-able although I'd prefer Wednesday. > > -- > Paul W. Frields, RHCE http://paul.frields.org/ > gpg fingerprint: 3DA6 A0AC 6D58 FEC4 0233 5906 ACDB C937 BD11 3717 > Fedora Project Board: http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Board > Fedora Docs Project: http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/DocsProject > > > -- > fedora-docs-list mailing list > fedora-docs-list at redhat.com > To unsubscribe: > https://www.redhat.com/mailman/listinfo/fedora-docs-list > > > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From samfw at redhat.com Thu Aug 24 20:58:19 2006 From: samfw at redhat.com (Sam Folk-Williams) Date: Thu, 24 Aug 2006 16:58:19 -0400 Subject: Munch 'N' Learn: CVS In-Reply-To: <1156438820.10411.11.camel@localhost.localdomain> References: <1156286968.27811.40.camel@localhost.localdomain> <20060823142205.GH27150@unplugged.rdu.redhat.com> <1156438820.10411.11.camel@localhost.localdomain> Message-ID: <1156453099.9241.52.camel@localhost.localdomain> On Thu, 2006-08-24 at 13:00 -0400, Paul W. Frields wrote: > On Wed, 2006-08-23 at 10:22 -0400, Sam Folk-Williams wrote: > > On 08/22/06 18:49 -0400 Paul W. Frields wrote: > > > I'd like to try this next week some time, but I can't do any session > > > before 2100 or 9:00pm UTC (currently 5:00pm EDT/2:00pm PDT). If I set > > > this up for Thursday night at 9:00pm UTC, how would that work for > > > everyone? If you plan to attend, drop a reply (ON-list) to this > > > message, or let me know a better time. > > > I can't promise I wont choose a veggie or rice cake as my snack, but I would > > love to do this. 5:00 EDT on 8/31 works for me. > > And now, after having set a potential date, I have to renege. I can do > Wednesday, 8/30 at 5:00 EDT (2100 UTC) if that works. Friday is also > do-able although I'd prefer Wednesday. > Wednesday is fine. Thanks, Sam > -- > fedora-docs-list mailing list > fedora-docs-list at redhat.com > To unsubscribe: > https://www.redhat.com/mailman/listinfo/fedora-docs-list -- Sam Folk-Williams, RHCE Red Hat Global Support Services Phone: 919/754-4558 GPG ID: 1B0D46BA -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: signature.asc Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 189 bytes Desc: This is a digitally signed message part URL: From fedoratrans at gmail.com Fri Aug 25 06:07:41 2006 From: fedoratrans at gmail.com (Magnus Larsson) Date: Fri, 25 Aug 2006 02:07:41 -0400 Subject: Self-Introduction: Magnus Larsson Message-ID: Magnus Larsson Philadelphia, USA Work as a software engineer. I want to translate the Fedora tools into Swedish. Then write some of the guides if time permits. I have good computer skills but not really a technical writer. I know how the software works. pub 1024D/D86B89C9 2006-08-24 Key fingerprint = 70BE 9E32 0AEE 5216 B988 32C4 E2EC 3019 D86B 89C9 uid Magnus Larsson sub 2048g/246F9AF8 2006-08-24 -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From Tommy.Reynolds at MegaCoder.com Fri Aug 25 12:24:34 2006 From: Tommy.Reynolds at MegaCoder.com (Tommy Reynolds) Date: Fri, 25 Aug 2006 05:24:34 -0700 Subject: Proposed new document: Kexec/Kdump Usage Guide In-Reply-To: <1156439022.10411.14.camel@localhost.localdomain> References: <1156433111.7490.11.camel@xavier.boston.redhat.com> <1156439022.10411.14.camel@localhost.localdomain> Message-ID: <20060825052434.0865b2ff.Tommy.Reynolds@MegaCoder.com> Uttered "Paul W. Frields" , spake thus: > On Thu, 2006-08-24 at 11:25 -0400, Jarod Wilson wrote: > > First draft of kexec/kdump usage guide attached in text form. > Anybody want to try their hand at editing this, following accepted > style guidelines and such? If you can convert it to DocBook, great > -- otherwise, I'd be happy to do that part. If nobody else steps up, I'll do it this weekend and take some of the load off Paul. HOWEVER, I'd much prefer someone new (aka all you lurkers) give this a swing. After all, it ain't rocket surgery. Cheers -- I'm already an anomaly, I shall soon be an anachronism, and I have every intention of dying an abuse! -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 189 bytes Desc: not available URL: From samfw at redhat.com Fri Aug 25 13:15:15 2006 From: samfw at redhat.com (Sam Folk-Williams) Date: Fri, 25 Aug 2006 09:15:15 -0400 Subject: Proposed new document: Kexec/Kdump Usage Guide In-Reply-To: <20060825052434.0865b2ff.Tommy.Reynolds@MegaCoder.com> References: <1156433111.7490.11.camel@xavier.boston.redhat.com> <1156439022.10411.14.camel@localhost.localdomain> <20060825052434.0865b2ff.Tommy.Reynolds@MegaCoder.com> Message-ID: <1156511715.18575.7.camel@localhost.localdomain> On Fri, 2006-08-25 at 05:24 -0700, Tommy Reynolds wrote: > Uttered "Paul W. Frields" , spake thus: > > > On Thu, 2006-08-24 at 11:25 -0400, Jarod Wilson wrote: > > > First draft of kexec/kdump usage guide attached in text form. > > Anybody want to try their hand at editing this, following accepted > > style guidelines and such? If you can convert it to DocBook, great > > -- otherwise, I'd be happy to do that part. > > If nobody else steps up, I'll do it this weekend and take some of > the load off Paul. > > HOWEVER, I'd much prefer someone new (aka all you lurkers) give this > a swing. After all, it ain't rocket surgery. > I'll do it. As the kernel beat guy it's in my domain and I need to learn this stuff anyhow. Thanks for the write up Jarod -- looks great. Sam > Cheers > > -- > fedora-docs-list mailing list > fedora-docs-list at redhat.com > To unsubscribe: > https://www.redhat.com/mailman/listinfo/fedora-docs-list -- Sam Folk-Williams, RHCE Red Hat Global Support Services Phone: 919/754-4558 GPG ID: 1B0D46BA -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: signature.asc Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 189 bytes Desc: This is a digitally signed message part URL: From samfw at redhat.com Fri Aug 25 13:46:36 2006 From: samfw at redhat.com (Sam Folk-Williams) Date: Fri, 25 Aug 2006 09:46:36 -0400 Subject: Proposed new document: Kexec/Kdump Usage Guide In-Reply-To: <1156511715.18575.7.camel@localhost.localdomain> References: <1156433111.7490.11.camel@xavier.boston.redhat.com> <1156439022.10411.14.camel@localhost.localdomain> <20060825052434.0865b2ff.Tommy.Reynolds@MegaCoder.com> <1156511715.18575.7.camel@localhost.localdomain> Message-ID: <1156513596.18575.9.camel@localhost.localdomain> On Fri, 2006-08-25 at 09:15 -0400, Sam Folk-Williams wrote: > On Fri, 2006-08-25 at 05:24 -0700, Tommy Reynolds wrote: > > Uttered "Paul W. Frields" , spake thus: > > > > > On Thu, 2006-08-24 at 11:25 -0400, Jarod Wilson wrote: > > > > First draft of kexec/kdump usage guide attached in text form. > > > Anybody want to try their hand at editing this, following accepted > > > style guidelines and such? If you can convert it to DocBook, great > > > -- otherwise, I'd be happy to do that part. > > I'm guessing this should replace what is currently here: http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Kernel/kdump ? Sam > > If nobody else steps up, I'll do it this weekend and take some of > > the load off Paul. > > > > HOWEVER, I'd much prefer someone new (aka all you lurkers) give this > > a swing. After all, it ain't rocket surgery. > > > I'll do it. As the kernel beat guy it's in my domain and I need to learn > this stuff anyhow. > > Thanks for the write up Jarod -- looks great. > > Sam > > Cheers > > > > -- > > fedora-docs-list mailing list > > fedora-docs-list at redhat.com > > To unsubscribe: > > https://www.redhat.com/mailman/listinfo/fedora-docs-list > -- > fedora-docs-list mailing list > fedora-docs-list at redhat.com > To unsubscribe: > https://www.redhat.com/mailman/listinfo/fedora-docs-list -- Sam Folk-Williams, RHCE Red Hat Global Support Services Phone: 919/754-4558 GPG ID: 1B0D46BA -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: signature.asc Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 189 bytes Desc: This is a digitally signed message part URL: From samfw at redhat.com Fri Aug 25 14:24:29 2006 From: samfw at redhat.com (Sam Folk-Williams) Date: Fri, 25 Aug 2006 10:24:29 -0400 Subject: Proposed new document: Kexec/Kdump Usage Guide In-Reply-To: <1156513596.18575.9.camel@localhost.localdomain> References: <1156433111.7490.11.camel@xavier.boston.redhat.com> <1156439022.10411.14.camel@localhost.localdomain> <20060825052434.0865b2ff.Tommy.Reynolds@MegaCoder.com> <1156511715.18575.7.camel@localhost.localdomain> <1156513596.18575.9.camel@localhost.localdomain> Message-ID: <1156515869.18575.17.camel@localhost.localdomain> On Fri, 2006-08-25 at 09:46 -0400, Sam Folk-Williams wrote: > On Fri, 2006-08-25 at 09:15 -0400, Sam Folk-Williams wrote: > > On Fri, 2006-08-25 at 05:24 -0700, Tommy Reynolds wrote: > > > Uttered "Paul W. Frields" , spake thus: > > > > > > > On Thu, 2006-08-24 at 11:25 -0400, Jarod Wilson wrote: > > > > > First draft of kexec/kdump usage guide attached in text form. > > > > Anybody want to try their hand at editing this, following accepted > > > > style guidelines and such? If you can convert it to DocBook, great > > > > -- otherwise, I'd be happy to do that part. > > > > I'm guessing this should replace what is currently here: > http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Kernel/kdump > > ? > > Sam > > > If nobody else steps up, I'll do it this weekend and take some of > > > the load off Paul. > > > > > > HOWEVER, I'd much prefer someone new (aka all you lurkers) give this > > > a swing. After all, it ain't rocket surgery. > > > > > I'll do it. As the kernel beat guy it's in my domain and I need to learn > > this stuff anyhow. > > > > Thanks for the write up Jarod -- looks great. > > OK I put it in drafts. In terms of editing I took out third person and clarified a few things. I think this should replace both /Kernel/kdump and /Kernel/kexec, which are old and have a fair amount of cleaning up needed. http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Docs/Drafts/Kexec_Kdump_HowTo Any feedback is welcome -- Paul I haven't done any DocBook yet but I'll see if I can figure it out. Sam > > Sam > > > Cheers > > > > > > -- > > > fedora-docs-list mailing list > > > fedora-docs-list at redhat.com > > > To unsubscribe: > > > https://www.redhat.com/mailman/listinfo/fedora-docs-list > > -- > > fedora-docs-list mailing list > > fedora-docs-list at redhat.com > > To unsubscribe: > > https://www.redhat.com/mailman/listinfo/fedora-docs-list > -- > fedora-docs-list mailing list > fedora-docs-list at redhat.com > To unsubscribe: > https://www.redhat.com/mailman/listinfo/fedora-docs-list -- Sam Folk-Williams, RHCE Red Hat Global Support Services Phone: 919/754-4558 GPG ID: 1B0D46BA -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: signature.asc Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 189 bytes Desc: This is a digitally signed message part URL: From jwilson at redhat.com Fri Aug 25 16:55:32 2006 From: jwilson at redhat.com (Jarod Wilson) Date: Fri, 25 Aug 2006 12:55:32 -0400 Subject: Proposed new document: Kexec/Kdump Usage Guide In-Reply-To: <1156515869.18575.17.camel@localhost.localdomain> References: <1156433111.7490.11.camel@xavier.boston.redhat.com> <1156439022.10411.14.camel@localhost.localdomain> <20060825052434.0865b2ff.Tommy.Reynolds@MegaCoder.com> <1156511715.18575.7.camel@localhost.localdomain> <1156513596.18575.9.camel@localhost.localdomain> <1156515869.18575.17.camel@localhost.localdomain> Message-ID: <1156524932.511.19.camel@xavier.boston.redhat.com> On Fri, 2006-08-25 at 10:24 -0400, Sam Folk-Williams wrote: > On Fri, 2006-08-25 at 09:46 -0400, Sam Folk-Williams wrote: > > On Fri, 2006-08-25 at 09:15 -0400, Sam Folk-Williams wrote: > > > On Fri, 2006-08-25 at 05:24 -0700, Tommy Reynolds wrote: > > > > Uttered "Paul W. Frields" , spake thus: > > > > > > > > > On Thu, 2006-08-24 at 11:25 -0400, Jarod Wilson wrote: > > > > > > First draft of kexec/kdump usage guide attached in text form. > > > > > Anybody want to try their hand at editing this, following accepted > > > > > style guidelines and such? If you can convert it to DocBook, great > > > > > -- otherwise, I'd be happy to do that part. > > > > > > I'm guessing this should replace what is currently here: > > http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Kernel/kdump > > > > ? Somehow or another, I wasn't even aware that was there. I could have sworn I looked... But yeah, that stuff is a bit dated, and for some reason wants to split up i386 and x86_64, even though the process is identical for all platforms we ship FC for. Side note: ia64 already has relocatable kernel support (so no -kdump kernel needed), plus some ia64 memory alignment quirks make it a bit different... But we don't have a formal FC ia64 release anyhow. :) > > > I'll do it. As the kernel beat guy it's in my domain and I need to learn > > > this stuff anyhow. > > > > > > Thanks for the write up Jarod -- looks great. > > > > > OK I put it in drafts. In terms of editing I took out third person and > clarified a few things. I think this should replace both /Kernel/kdump > and /Kernel/kexec, which are old and have a fair amount of cleaning up > needed. Sounds good to me. > http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Docs/Drafts/Kexec_Kdump_HowTo > > Any feedback is welcome Two minor corrections need to be made. Before both the grub.conf and yaboot.conf examples, it says "with kexec options added". There are no options needed for kexec alone, the options are kdump-specific, so that should be "with kdump options added". Other than that, lookin' good. Thanks much, -- Jarod Wilson jwilson at redhat.com -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: signature.asc Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 189 bytes Desc: This is a digitally signed message part URL: From samfw at redhat.com Fri Aug 25 17:05:17 2006 From: samfw at redhat.com (Sam Folk-Williams) Date: Fri, 25 Aug 2006 13:05:17 -0400 Subject: Proposed new document: Kexec/Kdump Usage Guide In-Reply-To: <1156524932.511.19.camel@xavier.boston.redhat.com> References: <1156433111.7490.11.camel@xavier.boston.redhat.com> <1156439022.10411.14.camel@localhost.localdomain> <20060825052434.0865b2ff.Tommy.Reynolds@MegaCoder.com> <1156511715.18575.7.camel@localhost.localdomain> <1156513596.18575.9.camel@localhost.localdomain> <1156515869.18575.17.camel@localhost.localdomain> <1156524932.511.19.camel@xavier.boston.redhat.com> Message-ID: <1156525517.18575.33.camel@localhost.localdomain> On Fri, 2006-08-25 at 12:55 -0400, Jarod Wilson wrote: > > > I'm guessing this should replace what is currently here: > > > http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Kernel/kdump > > > > > Somehow or another, I wasn't even aware that was there. I could have > sworn I looked... But yeah, that stuff is a bit dated, and for some > reason wants to split up i386 and x86_64, even though the process is > identical for all platforms we ship FC for. > OK I'll delete those. > Side note: ia64 already has relocatable kernel support (so no -kdump > kernel needed), plus some ia64 memory alignment quirks make it a bit > different... But we don't have a formal FC ia64 release anyhow. :) > If we don't have the formal release, not sure if we should note this. Any other opinions? > > OK I put it in drafts. In terms of editing I took out third person and > > clarified a few things. I think this should replace both /Kernel/kdump > > and /Kernel/kexec, which are old and have a fair amount of cleaning up > > needed. > > Sounds good to me. > > > http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Docs/Drafts/Kexec_Kdump_HowTo > > > > Any feedback is welcome > > Two minor corrections need to be made. Before both the grub.conf and > yaboot.conf examples, it says "with kexec options added". There are no > options needed for kexec alone, the options are kdump-specific, so that > should be "with kdump options added". > Fixed that. Thanks! Sam > Other than that, lookin' good. > > Thanks much, > > -- > fedora-docs-list mailing list > fedora-docs-list at redhat.com > To unsubscribe: > https://www.redhat.com/mailman/listinfo/fedora-docs-list -- Sam Folk-Williams, RHCE Red Hat Global Support Services Phone: 919/754-4558 GPG ID: 1B0D46BA -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: signature.asc Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 189 bytes Desc: This is a digitally signed message part URL: From jwilson at redhat.com Fri Aug 25 17:26:09 2006 From: jwilson at redhat.com (Jarod Wilson) Date: Fri, 25 Aug 2006 13:26:09 -0400 Subject: Proposed new document: Kexec/Kdump Usage Guide In-Reply-To: <1156525517.18575.33.camel@localhost.localdomain> References: <1156433111.7490.11.camel@xavier.boston.redhat.com> <1156439022.10411.14.camel@localhost.localdomain> <20060825052434.0865b2ff.Tommy.Reynolds@MegaCoder.com> <1156511715.18575.7.camel@localhost.localdomain> <1156513596.18575.9.camel@localhost.localdomain> <1156515869.18575.17.camel@localhost.localdomain> <1156524932.511.19.camel@xavier.boston.redhat.com> <1156525517.18575.33.camel@localhost.localdomain> Message-ID: <1156526769.511.25.camel@xavier.boston.redhat.com> On Fri, 2006-08-25 at 13:05 -0400, Sam Folk-Williams wrote: > > Side note: ia64 already has relocatable kernel support (so no -kdump > > kernel needed), plus some ia64 memory alignment quirks make it a bit > > different... But we don't have a formal FC ia64 release anyhow. :) > > > If we don't have the formal release, not sure if we should note this. > Any other opinions? I was just throwing it out there as a case where a different process would be necessary, unlike i386 vs. x86_64, wasn't even thinking about putting it into the doc. However, there *are* folks running rawhide on ia64, and a group that does produce an unofficial ia64 FC, so the case could be made to mention ia64 details as well -- maybe on its own page though? I'm open to either route, and can certainly provide the ia64 details (though let it be known that only kexec currently works at the moment, kdump is busticated. :). -- Jarod Wilson jwilson at redhat.com -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: signature.asc Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 189 bytes Desc: This is a digitally signed message part URL: From fcdocs at fletchersweb.net Sat Aug 26 11:17:48 2006 From: fcdocs at fletchersweb.net (David Fletcher) Date: Sat, 26 Aug 2006 12:17:48 +0100 Subject: ISO file burning how-to Message-ID: <200608261217.59376.fcdocs@fletchersweb.net> When I wrote this:- http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Docs/Drafts/BurningDiscs?highlight=%28burning%29%7C%28images%29%7C%28ISO%29 I thought the general agreement was to place a plain text version of it in the ISO files download folder. For FC5 it never happened, even though it was supposed to. See comment 25 of bug 178847. It would of course not be practical to put a read-me file in the same folder as the ISO files in all languages, but if only an English version was placed there as intended, it would be an enormous help. We still get messages posted by would-be Fedora users who have difficulties with the procedure I documented. I posted the above link into the wiki onto the Fedora list again this morning because its presence is anything but obvious. Also see comment 13 of the same bug. Will FC6 suck again? Dave Fletcher -- Registered Linux user number 393408 -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 189 bytes Desc: not available URL: From miles at brennan.id.au Sun Aug 27 14:59:59 2006 From: miles at brennan.id.au (Miles Brennan) Date: Mon, 28 Aug 2006 00:59:59 +1000 Subject: Wiki editing refresher In-Reply-To: <1156111169.1032.17.camel@erato.phig.org> References: <1156111169.1032.17.camel@erato.phig.org> Message-ID: <44F1B36F.5000505@brennan.id.au> -----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- Hash: SHA1 Karsten Wade wrote: > For all who are editing the DUG or Docs/Beats/, a quick reminder > pointer: > > http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/WikiEditing#Marking_Technical_Terms > http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/WikiEditing#Quick_Tips > > Thanks - Karsten > I've been working on converting the server guide (slowly) and notice that the wiki does not have all the functionality/style that I need to 'easily' convert my guide to the LDP wiki - or I'm doing it the wrong way :-O. As the guide is server based, most of the configuration is done by manually editing the files at the command line. I wanted to make the guide easy to follow, so I'd like to have a separate format/style differentiating between a typed command, the output of a command, and the contents of a configuration file - these seemed the most common choices for manual administration. To move technical info (config files etc..) into the wiki takes a large amount of time using wiki markup, and displaying configuration files inside a table takes a fair bit to format, so it looks similar to what the user is expecting to see. To make it simpler, html - 
 tags work
best, however the CSSs only provide one format/style for 
 tags.

I loaded up moin on my own server so I could learn without killing
anything on FDP and also to play with the CSSs/markup to get the results
I think is suitable for the guide.

I've created a few pages and a template located here:
http://www.brennan.id.au/wiki/
http://www.brennan.id.au/wiki/LinuxHomeServerTemplate
(Internet Explorer does not display my theme very well - known fault)

Also, upgrading the guide should be easier when it is superceded by the
next FC release, because the new example commands / output can be copied
straight into the 
 tags again.

I just wanted to get your opinions in regards to the formating/style of
the command line interaction and to see if it would break anything
(docbook/CVS/XML conversion etc..).


Regards,
Miles Brennan
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From stickster at gmail.com  Sun Aug 27 18:03:06 2006
From: stickster at gmail.com (Paul W. Frields)
Date: Sun, 27 Aug 2006 14:03:06 -0400
Subject: Wiki editing refresher
In-Reply-To: <44F1B36F.5000505@brennan.id.au>
References: <1156111169.1032.17.camel@erato.phig.org>
	<44F1B36F.5000505@brennan.id.au>
Message-ID: <1156701786.27524.8.camel@localhost.localdomain>

On Mon, 2006-08-28 at 00:59 +1000, Miles Brennan wrote:
> I've been working on converting the server guide (slowly) and notice
> that the wiki does not have all the functionality/style that I need to
> 'easily' convert my guide to the LDP wiki - or I'm doing it the wrong
> way :-O.
> 
> As the guide is server based, most of the configuration is done by
> manually editing the files at the command line. I wanted to make the
> guide easy to follow, so I'd like to have a separate format/style
> differentiating between a typed command, the output of a command, and
> the contents of a configuration file - these seemed the most common
> choices for manual administration.
> 
> To move technical info (config files etc..) into the wiki takes a large
> amount of time using wiki markup, and displaying configuration files
> inside a table takes a fair bit to format, so it looks similar to what
> the user is expecting to see. To make it simpler, html - 
 tags work
> best, however the CSSs only provide one format/style for 
 tags.

This is exactly why using the Wiki is not the best way to do technical
documentation.  DocBook is far better suited, because there are tags to
support all these different usages:


  Here's my explanatory text about what happens
  when you run the foosetup
  command.  First, the following screen appears:


  Your setup of foo
    is complete.


  Then you can add the following line to the
  /etc/foo file:


  BAR=1


The wiki has no good way of converting these elements once they're
properly tagged with DocBook anyway.  When we move to Plone, there may
be a one-for-one conversion from DocBook in our CVS repository to the
document in Plone -- or Plone might simply use the DocBook XML "live,"
converting user editing as necessary.  I've no idea, unfortunately.

For now, simply use the technical terms and you'll have to rely on an
editor to tag your guide correctly with DocBook -- or you could try
doing it yourself, using some of the starter information I posted the
other day in our inaugural Munch 'N' Learn:

http://www.redhat.com/archives/fedora-docs-list/2006-August/msg00081.html

DocBook is really very easy -- as easy as doing HTML or any other markup
-- once you get started.  Most people only ever use a handful of tags,
and add more to their "personal knowledge base" as needed.  XML is
becoming (has become!) so widespread that it's almost criminal *not* to
learn about it, and DocBook is just a specific type of XML document.

-- 
Paul W. Frields, RHCE                          http://paul.frields.org/
  gpg fingerprint: 3DA6 A0AC 6D58 FEC4 0233  5906 ACDB C937 BD11 3717
       Fedora Project Board: http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Board
    Fedora Docs Project:  http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/DocsProject
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From gmureddu at prodigy.net.mx  Sun Aug 27 23:20:01 2006
From: gmureddu at prodigy.net.mx (Gian Paolo Mureddu)
Date: Sun, 27 Aug 2006 18:20:01 -0500
Subject: Salutations.
Message-ID: <44F228A1.509@prodigy.net.mx>

-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----
Hash: SHA1

Hello Fedora Documentation list members.

The purpose of this e-mail is only to introduce myself to the list. My
name is Gian Paolo Mureddu, and I'm an avid Fedora user who would like
to contribute in some way to our great community. I figured that doing
so by documenting, reviewing, discussing and proposing to the
documentation project would be one way to do it. I reckon that we in
the Fedora community are missing a centralized source of
Fedora-specific, Linux-in-general documentation, especially since a
lot of users seem to be oblivious of the existence of
www.fedoraproject.org/wiki

I'll now run through the archives and read all there is to read to get
started... So I guess that for now I have my hands full. Anyway, hello
to all the Fedora Documentation Project members!
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From splinux at fedoraproject.org  Mon Aug 28 11:27:29 2006
From: splinux at fedoraproject.org (Damien Durand)
Date: Mon, 28 Aug 2006 13:27:29 +0200
Subject: Salutations.
In-Reply-To: <44F228A1.509@prodigy.net.mx>
References: <44F228A1.509@prodigy.net.mx>
Message-ID: 

Welcome to Fedora-Docs ;-)

2006/8/28, Gian Paolo Mureddu :
>
> -----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----
> Hash: SHA1
>
> Hello Fedora Documentation list members.
>
> The purpose of this e-mail is only to introduce myself to the list. My
> name is Gian Paolo Mureddu, and I'm an avid Fedora user who would like
> to contribute in some way to our great community. I figured that doing
> so by documenting, reviewing, discussing and proposing to the
> documentation project would be one way to do it. I reckon that we in
> the Fedora community are missing a centralized source of
> Fedora-specific, Linux-in-general documentation, especially since a
> lot of users seem to be oblivious of the existence of
> www.fedoraproject.org/wiki
>
> I'll now run through the archives and read all there is to read to get
> started... So I guess that for now I have my hands full. Anyway, hello
> to all the Fedora Documentation Project members!
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> -----END PGP SIGNATURE-----
>
> --
> fedora-docs-list mailing list
> fedora-docs-list at redhat.com
> To unsubscribe:
> https://www.redhat.com/mailman/listinfo/fedora-docs-list
>
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From stickster at gmail.com  Mon Aug 28 14:36:42 2006
From: stickster at gmail.com (Paul W. Frields)
Date: Mon, 28 Aug 2006 10:36:42 -0400
Subject: Salutations.
In-Reply-To: <44F228A1.509@prodigy.net.mx>
References: <44F228A1.509@prodigy.net.mx>
Message-ID: <1156775803.12689.6.camel@localhost.localdomain>

On Sun, 2006-08-27 at 18:20 -0500, Gian Paolo Mureddu wrote:
> Hello Fedora Documentation list members.

Hello back!

> The purpose of this e-mail is only to introduce myself to the list. My
> name is Gian Paolo Mureddu, and I'm an avid Fedora user who would like
> to contribute in some way to our great community. I figured that doing
> so by documenting, reviewing, discussing and proposing to the
> documentation project would be one way to do it. I reckon that we in
> the Fedora community are missing a centralized source of
> Fedora-specific, Linux-in-general documentation, especially since a
> lot of users seem to be oblivious of the existence of
> www.fedoraproject.org/wiki

I think "missing" is probably not the right word, since a lot of people
spend a *LOT* of time editing the wiki and making sure it has lots of
good, updated information available.  With the release of Fedora Core 5,
and the upcoming Core 6, the default Web browser bookmarks even include
helpful links such as going directly to the wiki.

We are working on a new "front page" that would be delivered into the
Web browser to make the navigation even easier.  If you want to get
involved, you can contact one of our contributors, Bob Jensen, who has
committed to getting that particular work off the ground:

http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/BobJensen

> I'll now run through the archives and read all there is to read to get
> started... So I guess that for now I have my hands full. Anyway, hello
> to all the Fedora Documentation Project members!

Maybe just the last couple of months would be enough to get an idea of
where we are.  Even on a lower-traffic list like ours, that's a lot of
reading!  Don't let it keep you from making some real contributions,
though, there's plenty of work to go around here. :-)  Welcome!

-- 
Paul W. Frields, RHCE                          http://paul.frields.org/
  gpg fingerprint: 3DA6 A0AC 6D58 FEC4 0233  5906 ACDB C937 BD11 3717
       Fedora Project Board: http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Board
    Fedora Docs Project:  http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/DocsProject
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From aalam at redhat.com  Tue Aug 29 14:15:32 2006
From: aalam at redhat.com (A S Alam)
Date: Tue, 29 Aug 2006 19:45:32 +0530
Subject: [translation]Release-notes FC6test3 POT available in CVS
Message-ID: <44F44C04.7030502@redhat.com>

hi Teams

Latest Release-notes POT available at i18n Server, please update your 
translate folder

goto your translate folder
$cd release-notes
$cvs up

and Merge your language with latest POT by following:
$ msgmerge -o .po .po RELEASE-NOTES.pot
$mv .po .po

and commit your file to cvs


for More details, please check at
https://www.redhat.com/archives/fedora-trans-list/2006-July/msg00056.html


Date for submission:

02 Sep 23:59 UTC
more detail at
http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/DocsProject/Schedule

if have any question, please ask on mailing list or IRC channel

thanks

-- 
A S Alam
timezone: GMT+5:30
join us at #fedora-l10n, #fedora-docs (freenode)

"Either find a way or make one"



From kwade at redhat.com  Tue Aug 29 15:27:51 2006
From: kwade at redhat.com (Karsten Wade)
Date: Tue, 29 Aug 2006 08:27:51 -0700
Subject: test3 relnotes translation location
Message-ID: <1156865271.2548.29.camel@erato.phig.org>

We have had the release note's POT file put into the i18n.redhat.com CVS
and translation system.  This email is in support of A S Alam's.

As we discussed last time, all translation for the release notes is now
happening through that CVS.  When it is done, we are going to *copy* the
files from one CVS back to the other.

If you are translating release notes, you need to:

i. Merge any changes in your PO files from the
cvs.fedoraproject.org/docs/cvs/release-notes/devel/po into the PO files
on i18n.redhat.com.

ii. Do all translation in i18n.redhat.com

There have been very few changes; only four of the original XML files
were updated between test2 and test3.  This is good, because we are a
few days late in making the PO files available, and we still need to
respect the 02 September due date for translations:

http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/DocsProject/Schedule

Thanks again to Paul W. Frields and A S Alam.  We're still doing too
much manually, but we are improving incrementally with each test and
release.

- Karsten
-- 
Karsten Wade, RHCE, 108 Editor    ^     Fedora Documentation Project 
 Sr. Developer Relations Mgr.     |  fedoraproject.org/wiki/DocsProject
   quaid.108.redhat.com           |          gpg key: AD0E0C41
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From fydernix at gmail.com  Wed Aug 30 07:44:14 2006
From: fydernix at gmail.com (SigmaX asdf)
Date: Wed, 30 Aug 2006 03:44:14 -0400
Subject: Self-Introduction: Eric Scott
Message-ID: 

Name: Eric O'Neal Scott (a.k.a. SigmaX)
Location: Berrien Springs, Michigan, USA
Profession: Student
School: Andrews University

Goals:
I have the intent to work on the "Publication of all man and info
pages for each release" announced at
http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/FedoraBounties for the sake of gaining
general experience.  I'm a computer science major and see myself going
into a related career, so any project I can find for education's sake
will enhance that goal.

Qualifications:
I am a student.  And as such I expect to learn more then I can give.
That said, I have sufficient web design skills (See SigmaX.org),
including some PHP and SQL knowledge.  Three years or so of Linux/UNIX
experience has yielded a reasonable level of proficiency.  As far as
programming, the most noteworthy project laboured at can be found at
http://sigmax.no-ip.org/programming_cdurry.php

I enjoy writing documentation, believe it or not.  My website has a
series of articles from the last few weeks, and I'm as easily
entertained commenting my code as I am writing it.  I journal and blog
regularly to keep up the practice of conveying complicated ideas in
relatively simple-to-fathom terms.

SigmaX



From fydernix at gmail.com  Wed Aug 30 07:57:26 2006
From: fydernix at gmail.com (SigmaX asdf)
Date: Wed, 30 Aug 2006 03:57:26 -0400
Subject: man/XML
Message-ID: 

I discovered the following project availability on
http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/FedoraBounties (I'm not expecting an
official "bounty," just for the record):

> Publication of all man and info pages for each release
> We would like to have every man and info page for each release of Fedora Core and Extras to be available via a simple Web interface,
>
> One option would be a directory full of formatted ASCII files. Another would be a simple search interface or contents listing, with the directory on the back-end.
>
> One objective is to be able to browse manual pages of various releases.
>
> Another goal is to have permanent URIs for documentation and reference.
>
> Having a simple Web-based diff tool to see what was added/subtracted across versions would be cool too.
>
> This could be a relative or a tie-in to DocsRawhide. The man and info pages for Fedora rawhide could be made available through this method.
>
> In the future, I'd like to see this format extended to allow a Wiki-like ability to edit the man pages directly.
>
> See bug #179524:  https://bugzilla.redhat.com/bugzilla/show_bug.cgi?id=179524
>
> Contact: KarstenWade
>

Upon contacting Karsten Wade I was told:

> Community members have been asking for "all the system documentation"
> available online, outside of the actual install itself.
>
> I don't know of the man and info pages are translated, but by converting
> them to XML, we can make them available for the community to translate.
>
> There has been a project proposed to the Linux Doc Project for a while
> to convert man pages to XML, so this could be part of that idea, if we
> wanted to carry it that far.
>
> ...We'd be looking for something
> clever and automated; someone from the release team or docs team would
> "press a button" (run a script), a tree of RPM packages would be
> checked, and all the documentation extracted and converted into XML.
> Anyway, that's just a first pass at an idea.

So.  Here I am.  I admit a degree of ignorance, but claim spirit to
learn and take a shot at a solution.

First off: Is there already an XML template, or something related (ex.
used in the translation project), which I should refer to in order to
be sure things are done in Fedora style?

Besides that I'm ready to start tinkering with it, in between my full
class load and 23 work hours a week :-S.

Cheerio,
  SigmaX



From twaugh at redhat.com  Wed Aug 30 08:43:43 2006
From: twaugh at redhat.com (Tim Waugh)
Date: Wed, 30 Aug 2006 09:43:43 +0100
Subject: man/XML
In-Reply-To: 
References: 
Message-ID: <1156927423.4276.0.camel@cyberelk.elk>

On Wed, 2006-08-30 at 03:57 -0400, SigmaX asdf wrote:
> First off: Is there already an XML template, or something related (ex.
> used in the translation project), which I should refer to in order to
> be sure things are done in Fedora style?

Does esr's doclifter help?

Tim.
*/

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From fydernix at gmail.com  Wed Aug 30 13:40:23 2006
From: fydernix at gmail.com (SigmaX asdf)
Date: Wed, 30 Aug 2006 09:40:23 -0400
Subject: man/XML
In-Reply-To: <1156927423.4276.0.camel@cyberelk.elk>
References: 
	<1156927423.4276.0.camel@cyberelk.elk>
Message-ID: 

Looks like a good place to start.  To bad the hard part's already been
implemented though -- steals all the fun ;-). Kudos to ESR.

Thanx,
SigmaX

On 8/30/06, Tim Waugh  wrote:
> On Wed, 2006-08-30 at 03:57 -0400, SigmaX asdf wrote:
> > First off: Is there already an XML template, or something related (ex.
> > used in the translation project), which I should refer to in order to
> > be sure things are done in Fedora style?
>
> Does esr's doclifter help?
>
> Tim.
> */
>
>
>
> --
> fedora-docs-list mailing list
> fedora-docs-list at redhat.com
> To unsubscribe:
> https://www.redhat.com/mailman/listinfo/fedora-docs-list
>
>
>



From kwade at redhat.com  Wed Aug 30 14:04:04 2006
From: kwade at redhat.com (Karsten Wade)
Date: Wed, 30 Aug 2006 07:04:04 -0700
Subject: Overview bloat? (was  [Fedora Project Wiki] Update of
	"Docs/Beats/Desktop" by RahulSundaram)
In-Reply-To: <20060830131956.19702.80568@fpserv.linux.duke.edu>
References: <20060830131956.19702.80568@fpserv.linux.duke.edu>
Message-ID: <1156946644.2545.48.camel@erato.phig.org>


> The following page has been changed by RahulSundaram:
> http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Docs/Beats/Desktop
> + 
> + 
> + = Comment =
> + 
> + Since the overview section covers the destkop already, do we need this section for FC6?
> + 

Good question.  My thoughts are like this ...

1. What does a user/reader do when coming to a massive release notes
like this, with a comprehensive Tables of Contents?
  a. Look through the ToC for relevant items and go read them?
  b. Read the introduction/overview, and consider going deeper?

Our current setup actually supports both, except that from the OverView,
the reader is not directed to the relevant content areas.  Instead, they
get a comprehensive overview right there.

Perhaps the OverView should say something brief, then link to more
content?

We faced this with FC5, where the OverView grew to be so big that it was
repeating information stated elsewhere, which means it now had to be
maintained twice.

The OverView is starting to remind me of the old Fedora/RHEL release
notes.  One, long page with all the information in brief.  

Is it useful to have both styles supported?

- Karsten
-- 
Karsten Wade, RHCE, 108 Editor    ^     Fedora Documentation Project 
 Sr. Developer Relations Mgr.     |  fedoraproject.org/wiki/DocsProject
   quaid.108.redhat.com           |          gpg key: AD0E0C41
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From sundaram at fedoraproject.org  Wed Aug 30 14:08:17 2006
From: sundaram at fedoraproject.org (Rahul)
Date: Wed, 30 Aug 2006 19:38:17 +0530
Subject: Overview bloat? (was [Fedora Project Wiki] Update
 of	"Docs/Beats/Desktop" by RahulSundaram)
In-Reply-To: <1156946644.2545.48.camel@erato.phig.org>
References: <20060830131956.19702.80568@fpserv.linux.duke.edu>
	<1156946644.2545.48.camel@erato.phig.org>
Message-ID: <44F59BD1.2040006@fedoraproject.org>

Karsten Wade wrote:
>> The following page has been changed by RahulSundaram:
>> http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Docs/Beats/Desktop
>> + 
>> + 
>> + = Comment =
>> + 
>> + Since the overview section covers the destkop already, do we need this section for FC6?
>> + 
> 
> Good question.  My thoughts are like this ...
> 
> 1. What does a user/reader do when coming to a massive release notes
> like this, with a comprehensive Tables of Contents?
>   a. Look through the ToC for relevant items and go read them?
>   b. Read the introduction/overview, and consider going deeper?
> 
> Our current setup actually supports both, except that from the OverView,
> the reader is not directed to the relevant content areas.  Instead, they
> get a comprehensive overview right there.
> 
> Perhaps the OverView should say something brief, then link to more
> content?
> 
> We faced this with FC5, where the OverView grew to be so big that it was
> repeating information stated elsewhere, which means it now had to be
> maintained twice.
> 
> The OverView is starting to remind me of the old Fedora/RHEL release
> notes.  One, long page with all the information in brief.  
> 
> Is it useful to have both styles supported?
> 

As the beat writer for the section, I chose the current style to give 
our users a very quick glance at major changes rather than make them 
scroll through different sections to get an idea of the improvements. It 
could be possible that there are desktop changes that arent major and 
require some brief coverage in other sections but if a section is empty 
as it is right now, we can drop it before the final release IMO.

Rahul



From kwade at redhat.com  Wed Aug 30 14:48:38 2006
From: kwade at redhat.com (Karsten Wade)
Date: Wed, 30 Aug 2006 07:48:38 -0700
Subject: Overview bloat? (was  [Fedora Project Wiki] Update
	of	"Docs/Beats/Desktop" by RahulSundaram)
In-Reply-To: <44F59BD1.2040006@fedoraproject.org>
References: <20060830131956.19702.80568@fpserv.linux.duke.edu>
	<1156946644.2545.48.camel@erato.phig.org>
	<44F59BD1.2040006@fedoraproject.org>
Message-ID: <1156949318.2545.67.camel@erato.phig.org>

On Wed, 2006-08-30 at 19:38 +0530, Rahul wrote:

> As the beat writer for the section, I chose the current style to give 
> our users a very quick glance at major changes rather than make them 
> scroll through different sections to get an idea of the improvements. It 
> could be possible that there are desktop changes that arent major and 
> require some brief coverage in other sections but if a section is empty 
> as it is right now, we can drop it before the final release IMO.

I agree with both of these.  I just don't want to see all the content
migrate to the OverView. :)  As the overview beat writer, I'm sure you'd
agree.

Let's wait until 20 Sep (the deadline we're pushing out to the devel
lists) for any changes/additions from that group.  At that point, we'll
cull all the beats that have no content.

- Karsten
-- 
Karsten Wade, RHCE, 108 Editor    ^     Fedora Documentation Project 
 Sr. Developer Relations Mgr.     |  fedoraproject.org/wiki/DocsProject
   quaid.108.redhat.com           |          gpg key: AD0E0C41
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From stickster at gmail.com  Wed Aug 30 14:57:58 2006
From: stickster at gmail.com (Paul W. Frields)
Date: Wed, 30 Aug 2006 14:57:58 +0000
Subject: Overview bloat? (was  [Fedora Project Wiki] Update
	of	"Docs/Beats/Desktop" by RahulSundaram)
In-Reply-To: <1156949318.2545.67.camel@erato.phig.org>
References: <20060830131956.19702.80568@fpserv.linux.duke.edu>
	<1156946644.2545.48.camel@erato.phig.org>
	<44F59BD1.2040006@fedoraproject.org>
	<1156949318.2545.67.camel@erato.phig.org>
Message-ID: <1156949878.12689.111.camel@localhost.localdomain>

On Wed, 2006-08-30 at 07:48 -0700, Karsten Wade wrote:
> On Wed, 2006-08-30 at 19:38 +0530, Rahul wrote:
> 
> > As the beat writer for the section, I chose the current style to give 
> > our users a very quick glance at major changes rather than make them 
> > scroll through different sections to get an idea of the improvements. It 
> > could be possible that there are desktop changes that arent major and 
> > require some brief coverage in other sections but if a section is empty 
> > as it is right now, we can drop it before the final release IMO.
> 
> I agree with both of these.  I just don't want to see all the content
> migrate to the OverView. :)  As the overview beat writer, I'm sure you'd
> agree.
> 
> Let's wait until 20 Sep (the deadline we're pushing out to the devel
> lists) for any changes/additions from that group.  At that point, we'll
> cull all the beats that have no content.

+1.  From a docs perspective, a good way to make the Overview do what's
needed while maintaining a slim profile is for any particular bullet to
be no more than a short sentence of, say, 20 words.  If you need more
space than that, it's probably better pushed to the appropriate section.
That allows the idea to be fully explained without overloading the
Overview, and might mean the difference between a "missing" section and
a section with meaningful content.

-- 
Paul W. Frields, RHCE                          http://paul.frields.org/
  gpg fingerprint: 3DA6 A0AC 6D58 FEC4 0233  5906 ACDB C937 BD11 3717
       Fedora Project Board: http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Board
    Fedora Docs Project:  http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/DocsProject
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From kwade at redhat.com  Wed Aug 30 18:43:11 2006
From: kwade at redhat.com (Karsten Wade)
Date: Wed, 30 Aug 2006 11:43:11 -0700
Subject: Wiki freeze for DUG today
Message-ID: <1156963392.2545.131.camel@erato.phig.org>

We are going into a Wiki freeze for the DUG, in order to convert it to
XML:

http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/DocsProject/Schedule#guides-schedule

I've left it open for a few days to catch any last minute help, and I'm
going to do some work on the Wiki today before conversion.  Freeze will
be at 23:59 UTC today, but I reserve the right as editor to continue to
do fixes in the Wiki before conversion.

Once converted to XML, we are keeping the FC6 branch in XML in CVS
forevermore.  This is because Wiki -> XML is decompressing; once we
further edit the XML, returning it to the Wiki is lossy and time
consuming.  Finally, we still consider XML the preferred format for
working on full-length guides.

- Karsten
-- 
Karsten Wade, RHCE, 108 Editor    ^     Fedora Documentation Project 
 Sr. Developer Relations Mgr.     |  fedoraproject.org/wiki/DocsProject
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From jmbabich at gmail.com  Wed Aug 30 19:40:09 2006
From: jmbabich at gmail.com (John Babich)
Date: Wed, 30 Aug 2006 22:40:09 +0300
Subject: Wiki freeze for DUG today
In-Reply-To: <1156963392.2545.131.camel@erato.phig.org>
References: <1156963392.2545.131.camel@erato.phig.org>
Message-ID: <9d2c731f0608301240i1b5b1d6ck8415a1c2e4f06b1a@mail.gmail.com>

Karsten:

As I explained on #fedora-docs, I am unable to do the PHOTO section of the
DUG. I currently do not own a digital camera. "Stickster" volunteered to do
an FC5 version and then convert it to FC6 after the freeze.

I thanked him for his assistance. Meanwhile, I'll try to borrow a digital
camera from a friend in a few weeks and see if I can come up with something
that I can add to it.

- John "jmbuser" Babich

gpg key: 42AF1331

On 8/30/06, Karsten Wade  wrote:
>
> We are going into a Wiki freeze for the DUG, in order to convert it to
> XML:
>
> http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/DocsProject/Schedule#guides-schedule
>
> I've left it open for a few days to catch any last minute help, and I'm
> going to do some work on the Wiki today before conversion.  Freeze will
> be at 23:59 UTC today, but I reserve the right as editor to continue to
> do fixes in the Wiki before conversion.
>
> Once converted to XML, we are keeping the FC6 branch in XML in CVS
> forevermore.  This is because Wiki -> XML is decompressing; once we
> further edit the XML, returning it to the Wiki is lossy and time
> consuming.  Finally, we still consider XML the preferred format for
> working on full-length guides.
>
> - Karsten
> --
> Karsten Wade, RHCE, 108 Editor    ^     Fedora Documentation Project
> Sr. Developer Relations Mgr.     |  fedoraproject.org/wiki/DocsProject
>    quaid.108.redhat.com           |          gpg key: AD0E0C41
> ////////////////////////////////// \\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\
>
>
> --
> fedora-docs-list mailing list
> fedora-docs-list at redhat.com
> To unsubscribe:
> https://www.redhat.com/mailman/listinfo/fedora-docs-list
>
>
>
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