From dtfedora at yahoo.com Fri Dec 1 02:02:49 2006 From: dtfedora at yahoo.com (Dimitrios Typaldos) Date: Thu, 30 Nov 2006 18:02:49 -0800 (PST) Subject: DocBook XML rises from the ashes! Message-ID: <20061201020249.28578.qmail@web57907.mail.re3.yahoo.com> Hello, though my knowledge on the list of 'skills' you mentioned is limited on the first and partially second item I think I would be interested in learning something more. Happy to help. Regards Dimitri ----- Original Message ---- From: Paul W. Frields To: Fedora Documentation Project Sent: Thursday, November 30, 2006 10:40:51 PM Subject: DocBook XML rises from the ashes! Hi gang, It has become apparent over the last few months that having only a couple of people with DocBook XML and CVS skills is a bit of a hampering factor for the Docs Project. This is completely independent of Wiki use, and whether we have wiki docs or not, we will *always* need some people with these skills, more than we have right now for sure. I raised this issue in Tuesday's meeting and wanted to follow up with a proposal. We need at least four volunteers to step up to learn these technologies, only to the extent needed to accomplish the following goals: 1. Understand how to check out document modules from our source code management (SCM) system -- currently CVS. 2. Build documents that are already written and edited, and report problems fully if unsuccessful. 3. Understand how to make changes as directed and commit them to the SCM. 4. Understand how to publish documents to the web site. (Currently this is fedora.redhat.com/docs, but we will track changes as needed.) We need to agree on a way to train in these technologies. I think IRC meetings would suffice, but we will need to agree on a date and time. We can use other technologies on an "as needed" basis, such as gobby. I can promise people that the training will be virtually painless and will require *NO prior experience* with any markup language, shell scripting or programming language, although if you've ever hit "View Source" in your Firefox browser, that's a plus. (You don't have to understand what you saw, but the fact that you cared shows a lot of promise.) :-) I can also promise you that anyone can learn this stuff, especially anyone who already knows how to install and use Fedora. In fact, I didn't know any of it until I got here in 2003. (And some would probably say that I only know enough to be dangerous now.) Please step up -- we need YOU! -- Paul W. Frields, RHCE http://paul.frields.org/ gpg fingerprint: 3DA6 A0AC 6D58 FEC4 0233 5906 ACDB C937 BD11 3717 Fedora Project Board: http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Board Fedora Docs Project: http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/DocsProject -- fedora-docs-list mailing list fedora-docs-list at redhat.com To unsubscribe: https://www.redhat.com/mailman/listinfo/fedora-docs-list ____________________________________________________________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? Everyone is raving about the all-new Yahoo! Mail beta. http://new.mail.yahoo.com -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From jmbabich at gmail.com Fri Dec 1 07:43:54 2006 From: jmbabich at gmail.com (John Babich) Date: Fri, 1 Dec 2006 10:43:54 +0300 Subject: DocBook XML rises from the ashes! In-Reply-To: <20061201020249.28578.qmail@web57907.mail.re3.yahoo.com> References: <20061201020249.28578.qmail@web57907.mail.re3.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <9d2c731f0611302343i2cda31f8taf387bcea02c13a4@mail.gmail.com> Paul previously wrote: > We need to agree on a way to train in these technologies. I think IRC > meetings would suffice, but we will need to agree on a date and time. > We can use other technologies on an "as needed" basis, such as gobby. Sign me up! I am starting to run into the some of the limitations of the wiki approach. I also am gaining a better understanding of the power (and popularity) of DocBook XML. Besides, I said I would learn DocBook XML, and, by gosh, I will! John Babich From samfw at redhat.com Fri Dec 1 23:25:35 2006 From: samfw at redhat.com (Sam Folk-Williams) Date: Fri, 01 Dec 2006 18:25:35 -0500 Subject: DocBook XML rises from the ashes! In-Reply-To: <1164926451.25685.33.camel@localhost.localdomain> References: <1164926451.25685.33.camel@localhost.localdomain> Message-ID: <1165015535.12748.0.camel@dhcp59-181.rdu.redhat.com> On Thu, 2006-11-30 at 17:40 -0500, Paul W. Frields wrote: > Hi gang, > > It has become apparent over the last few months that having only a > couple of people with DocBook XML and CVS skills is a bit of a hampering > factor for the Docs Project. This is completely independent of Wiki > use, and whether we have wiki docs or not, we will *always* need some > people with these skills, more than we have right now for sure. I > raised this issue in Tuesday's meeting and wanted to follow up with a > proposal. > > We need at least four volunteers to step up to learn these technologies, > only to the extent needed to accomplish the following goals: > > 1. Understand how to check out document modules from our source code > management (SCM) system -- currently CVS. > > 2. Build documents that are already written and edited, and report > problems fully if unsuccessful. > > 3. Understand how to make changes as directed and commit them to the > SCM. > > 4. Understand how to publish documents to the web site. (Currently this > is fedora.redhat.com/docs, but we will track changes as needed.) > I've spent some time learning about this stuff, but then dropped off... I am definitely up for this. Sam > We need to agree on a way to train in these technologies. I think IRC > meetings would suffice, but we will need to agree on a date and time. > We can use other technologies on an "as needed" basis, such as gobby. > > I can promise people that the training will be virtually painless and > will require *NO prior experience* with any markup language, shell > scripting or programming language, although if you've ever hit "View > Source" in your Firefox browser, that's a plus. (You don't have to > understand what you saw, but the fact that you cared shows a lot of > promise.) :-) > > I can also promise you that anyone can learn this stuff, especially > anyone who already knows how to install and use Fedora. In fact, I > didn't know any of it until I got here in 2003. (And some would > probably say that I only know enough to be dangerous now.) > > Please step up -- we need YOU! > > -- > fedora-docs-list mailing list > fedora-docs-list at redhat.com > To unsubscribe: > https://www.redhat.com/mailman/listinfo/fedora-docs-list -- Sam Folk-Williams, RHCE Technical Account Manager Red Hat (919) 754-4558 -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: signature.asc Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 189 bytes Desc: This is a digitally signed message part URL: From stickster at gmail.com Sat Dec 2 02:00:29 2006 From: stickster at gmail.com (Paul W. Frields) Date: Fri, 01 Dec 2006 21:00:29 -0500 Subject: DocBook XML rises from the ashes! In-Reply-To: <1165015535.12748.0.camel@dhcp59-181.rdu.redhat.com> References: <1164926451.25685.33.camel@localhost.localdomain> <1165015535.12748.0.camel@dhcp59-181.rdu.redhat.com> Message-ID: <1165024829.25685.66.camel@localhost.localdomain> [Lots of cool volunteer replies deleted...] OK, we need a time and day for this. Unless *all* you guys disagree, I'm assuming weekends are not great for this. My $DAYJOB makes daytime (Eastern US) impossible, so it's evenings or weekends only for me. Can anyone do Monday at 5:00pm, limited to ~60 min.? I would like anyone interested to at least check out this log: http://www.redhat.com/archives/fedora-docs-list/2006-August/msg00081.html and possibly: http://www.redhat.com/magazine/016feb06/features/docbook_xml/ http://www.redhat.com/magazine/017mar06/features/docbook_xml/ There's some good orientation stuff there, although I'll be happy to go over unclear stuff again. Let's make the mission: * Questions from the log (first link above) * How to make a new module from scratch using our common build tools I think that's probably enough for an hour. Thoughts? -- Paul W. Frields, RHCE http://paul.frields.org/ gpg fingerprint: 3DA6 A0AC 6D58 FEC4 0233 5906 ACDB C937 BD11 3717 Fedora Project Board: http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Board Fedora Docs Project: http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/DocsProject -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: signature.asc Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 189 bytes Desc: This is a digitally signed message part URL: From jmbabich at gmail.com Sat Dec 2 07:08:46 2006 From: jmbabich at gmail.com (John Babich) Date: Sat, 2 Dec 2006 10:08:46 +0300 Subject: DocBook XML rises from the ashes! In-Reply-To: <1165024829.25685.66.camel@localhost.localdomain> References: <1164926451.25685.33.camel@localhost.localdomain> <1165015535.12748.0.camel@dhcp59-181.rdu.redhat.com> <1165024829.25685.66.camel@localhost.localdomain> Message-ID: <9d2c731f0612012308q7a3ff6fcn36baa285fdc53468@mail.gmail.com> On 12/2/06, Paul W. Frields wrote: > [Lots of cool volunteer replies deleted...] > > OK, we need a time and day for this. Unless *all* you guys disagree, > I'm assuming weekends are not great for this. My $DAYJOB makes daytime > (Eastern US) impossible, so it's evenings or weekends only for me. Can > anyone do Monday at 5:00pm, limited to ~60 min.? Paul: Top Ten List of "Disadvantages to Working on a Global Project": 1. Two words: Time zones I'm very much interested in this training. Just a reminder: West Coast, North America - Wednesday, 2 PM (GMT-8) East Coast, North America - Wednesday, 5 PM (GMT-5) <-- You are Here West Russia, Middle East, East Africa - Thursday, 1 AM (GMT+3) <-- my situation New Zealand - Thursday, 11 PM - Thursday, 11 AM (GMT+10) So, the best time for me (YMMV) under the circumstances is Saturday, 2 PM, EST (GMT-5) John Babich From vnk at mkc.co.nz Sat Dec 2 08:02:48 2006 From: vnk at mkc.co.nz (Vladimir Kosovac) Date: Sat, 02 Dec 2006 21:02:48 +1300 Subject: DocBook XML rises from the ashes! In-Reply-To: <9d2c731f0612012308q7a3ff6fcn36baa285fdc53468@mail.gmail.com> References: <1164926451.25685.33.camel@localhost.localdomain> <1165015535.12748.0.camel@dhcp59-181.rdu.redhat.com> <1165024829.25685.66.camel@localhost.localdomain> <9d2c731f0612012308q7a3ff6fcn36baa285fdc53468@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <45713328.1060402@mkc.co.nz> John Babich wrote: > > Paul: > > Top Ten List of "Disadvantages to Working on a Global Project": > > 1. Two words: Time zones > > I'm very much interested in this training. > > Just a reminder: > > West Coast, North America - Wednesday, 2 PM (GMT-8) > East Coast, North America - Wednesday, 5 PM (GMT-5) <-- You are Here > West Russia, Middle East, East Africa - Thursday, 1 AM (GMT+3) <-- my > situation > New Zealand - Thursday, 11 PM - Thursday, 11 AM (GMT+10) Actually, Paul's proposed time (5 PM, Mon US E) translates to ~2 AM, Tuesday Dubai (I suppose you're not far off). On the other hand, Sat 2 PM your time is around 5 AM Paul's zone, correct? Neither one sounds terribly attractive but if John's proposal is pushed for few hours and Paul gets up before 9 AM on Saturday, it might work for both. Weird time down here but I'll be up&working anyway (3 AM, Pacific/Auckland). One dumb question: on what IRC channel would this meeting happen? Cheers, Vladimir > So, the best time for me (YMMV) under the circumstances is > > Saturday, 2 PM, EST (GMT-5) > > John Babich > From jmbabich at gmail.com Sat Dec 2 09:04:11 2006 From: jmbabich at gmail.com (John Babich) Date: Sat, 2 Dec 2006 12:04:11 +0300 Subject: DocBook XML rises from the ashes! In-Reply-To: <45713328.1060402@mkc.co.nz> References: <1164926451.25685.33.camel@localhost.localdomain> <1165015535.12748.0.camel@dhcp59-181.rdu.redhat.com> <1165024829.25685.66.camel@localhost.localdomain> <9d2c731f0612012308q7a3ff6fcn36baa285fdc53468@mail.gmail.com> <45713328.1060402@mkc.co.nz> Message-ID: <9d2c731f0612020104l51c4ba1eg26a8686fdf3924ab@mail.gmail.com> Vladimir: On 12/2/06, Vladimir Kosovac wrote: > Actually, Paul's proposed time (5 PM, Mon US E) translates to ~2 AM, > Tuesday Dubai (I suppose you're not far off). On the other hand, Sat 2 > PM your time is around 5 AM Paul's zone, correct? Actually, assuming you meant 5 PM, not AM: Dubai would be Thursday, 2 AM (Dubai Time). :-) "GMT" (Greenwich Mean Time) is the usual American way to refer to "UTC" (Universal Time Coordinated). Paul is UTC-5, I'm UTC+3, Dubai is UTC+4 and you're at UTC+13 (I think). There are no daylight savings times in effect at this time, which makes it easier. See www.timeanddate.com for all the confusing details. > One dumb question: on what IRC channel would this meeting happen? > I usually ask the dumb questions around here, but feel free to assist me. Seriously, there are no dumb questions. We usually meet on #fedora-docs on freenode.net. See http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Communicate for further details. John Babich From vnk at mkc.co.nz Sat Dec 2 09:43:21 2006 From: vnk at mkc.co.nz (Vladimir Kosovac) Date: Sat, 02 Dec 2006 22:43:21 +1300 Subject: Self introduction Message-ID: <45714AB9.5020806@mkc.co.nz> Hi all. I am Vladimir Kosovac and am based in Auckland, New Zealand. I just recently figured that excuses, mostly to self, about not having enough time to put some effort into this beautiful project don't work anymore. So, here I am. I have spent last 6+ years as sysadmin at Computer Power, what used to be one of the largest IT training organisations in this part of the world. Sadly, we are not anymore, since Australian operation wound up at the beginning of this year. You all will be happy to know that our training environment is about 97% Red Hat on the server side and 100% Fedora on the Desktop. Obviously, we have to provide Windows desktops, too but those are VMs, so they don't count :o). We are also Red Hat Academy and I am proud to say that two former colleagues from Melbourne and I were the ones to persuade management structures to work with Red Hat on establishing our organisation's Academy status. My Linux experience dates back to 2000, when I put the hand up for a job at this workplace. That opened my eyes and apart from moving to New Zealand, I consider it the smartest move I made in my whole life. There is nothing better than the opportunity to make a living by doing what one really loves. Hopefully, my future contribution will help in making this possible for someone else, too. I'd be most interested to work on parts of the System Administration Guide but I am also happy to help with whatever is considered priority, provided my knowledge is sufficient for whatever that might be. I am not programmer and don't intend to become one. I do have some experience with editing learning material at my workplace. This was done using common word processing apps though but I am going to get on some learning of DocBook XML, which seems pretty straight-forward to get to the level needed to start helping with "checkout-edit-build-publish" effort that Paul suggested recently on the list. Looking forward to work with all of you. Regards, Vladimir ================================================= pub 1024D/7CDACB15 2006-12-01 Key fingerprint = 81B3 78F4 6DB9 0367 40A8 34F2 683F DC6D 7CDA CB15 uid Vladimir Kosovac (fedora_docs) sub 1024g/4307A68A 2006-12-01 ================================================= -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: signature.asc Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 251 bytes Desc: OpenPGP digital signature URL: From linux at glossolalie.org Sat Dec 2 09:46:07 2006 From: linux at glossolalie.org (Thierry Sayegh De Bellis) Date: Sat, 02 Dec 2006 09:46:07 +0000 Subject: DocBook XML rises from the ashes! In-Reply-To: <1165024829.25685.66.camel@localhost.localdomain> References: <1164926451.25685.33.camel@localhost.localdomain> <1165015535.12748.0.camel@dhcp59-181.rdu.redhat.com> <1165024829.25685.66.camel@localhost.localdomain> Message-ID: <45714B5F.3020205@glossolalie.org> -----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- Hash: SHA1 Paul W. Frields wrote: > [Lots of cool volunteer replies deleted...] Since I am in GMT your 5.00pm is my 10.00pm - fine by me ;-) - -- (o< Thierry Sayegh De Bellis, RHCE //\ http://glossolalie.com V_/_ Fingerprint: 9976 11FE D9C6 8C67 6242 7BB1 6466 3F1D 56ED 7D5A -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: GnuPG v1.2.4 (Darwin) Comment: Using GnuPG with Mozilla - http://enigmail.mozdev.org iD8DBQFFcUtfZGY/HVbtfVoRAtzkAJ9REq0ENPOKTnQNRNBrKJ6tNWP0pACfYN+Y 3TxTX0OOOlkFNSyO+BJIbwk= =7AMH -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- From vnk at mkc.co.nz Sat Dec 2 09:58:02 2006 From: vnk at mkc.co.nz (Vladimir Kosovac) Date: Sat, 02 Dec 2006 22:58:02 +1300 Subject: DocBook XML rises from the ashes! In-Reply-To: <9d2c731f0612020104l51c4ba1eg26a8686fdf3924ab@mail.gmail.com> References: <1164926451.25685.33.camel@localhost.localdomain> <1165015535.12748.0.camel@dhcp59-181.rdu.redhat.com> <1165024829.25685.66.camel@localhost.localdomain> <9d2c731f0612012308q7a3ff6fcn36baa285fdc53468@mail.gmail.com> <45713328.1060402@mkc.co.nz> <9d2c731f0612020104l51c4ba1eg26a8686fdf3924ab@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <45714E2A.1040808@mkc.co.nz> John Babich wrote: > Vladimir: > > On 12/2/06, Vladimir Kosovac wrote: >> Actually, Paul's proposed time (5 PM, Mon US E) translates to ~2 AM, >> Tuesday Dubai (I suppose you're not far off). On the other hand, Sat 2 >> PM your time is around 5 AM Paul's zone, correct? > > Actually, assuming you meant 5 PM, not AM: Dubai would be Thursday, > 2 AM (Dubai Time). :-) I can't see how Paul's Monday afternoon (US Atlantic coast) can be Thursday your time. You are just 8 hours ahead of Paul. > >> One dumb question: on what IRC channel would this meeting happen? >> > I usually ask the dumb questions around here, but feel free to assist me. > Seriously, there are no dumb questions. > > We usually meet on #fedora-docs on freenode.net. See > http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Communicate for further details. > Good to know, thanks. Now just to sort out that time! Vladimir > John Babich > -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: signature.asc Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 251 bytes Desc: OpenPGP digital signature URL: From linux at glossolalie.org Sat Dec 2 10:15:05 2006 From: linux at glossolalie.org (Thierry Sayegh De Bellis) Date: Sat, 02 Dec 2006 10:15:05 +0000 Subject: Self introduction In-Reply-To: <45714AB9.5020806@mkc.co.nz> References: <45714AB9.5020806@mkc.co.nz> Message-ID: <45715229.2040108@glossolalie.org> -----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- Hash: SHA1 Vladimir Kosovac wrote: > Hi all. Welcome to the team! - -- (o< Thierry Sayegh De Bellis, RHCE //\ http://glossolalie.com V_/_ Fingerprint: 9976 11FE D9C6 8C67 6242 7BB1 6466 3F1D 56ED 7D5A -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: GnuPG v1.2.4 (Darwin) Comment: Using GnuPG with Mozilla - http://enigmail.mozdev.org iD8DBQFFcVIoZGY/HVbtfVoRAkFGAKCBr1swNXbIaPA/zG5w8JW/Wdi5NgCggkFq mHwS/ryr++FOOK2CWrWIg4c= =jgFz -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- From jmbabich at gmail.com Sat Dec 2 10:52:25 2006 From: jmbabich at gmail.com (John Babich) Date: Sat, 2 Dec 2006 13:52:25 +0300 Subject: DocBook XML rises from the ashes! In-Reply-To: <45714E2A.1040808@mkc.co.nz> References: <1164926451.25685.33.camel@localhost.localdomain> <1165015535.12748.0.camel@dhcp59-181.rdu.redhat.com> <1165024829.25685.66.camel@localhost.localdomain> <9d2c731f0612012308q7a3ff6fcn36baa285fdc53468@mail.gmail.com> <45713328.1060402@mkc.co.nz> <9d2c731f0612020104l51c4ba1eg26a8686fdf3924ab@mail.gmail.com> <45714E2A.1040808@mkc.co.nz> Message-ID: <9d2c731f0612020252v2f2e9203hac004d5d5c6864f6@mail.gmail.com> On 12/2/06, Vladimir Kosovac wrote: > I can't see how Paul's Monday afternoon (US Atlantic coast) can be > Thursday your time. You are just 8 hours ahead of Paul. Besides asking "dumb" questions, I'm also great at "stupid" responses. Paul *is* talking about Monday at 5 PM, which, of course, is my Tuesday at 1 AM. John Babich From jmbabich at gmail.com Sat Dec 2 10:56:05 2006 From: jmbabich at gmail.com (John Babich) Date: Sat, 2 Dec 2006 13:56:05 +0300 Subject: Self introduction In-Reply-To: <45715229.2040108@glossolalie.org> References: <45714AB9.5020806@mkc.co.nz> <45715229.2040108@glossolalie.org> Message-ID: <9d2c731f0612020256o621a8f76k2605baae70408f38@mail.gmail.com> > Vladimir Kosovac wrote: > > Hi all. Now that I have my time zones (and days of the week) straightened out, I would like to say "welcome aboard". John Babich From dtfedora at yahoo.com Sat Dec 2 12:06:24 2006 From: dtfedora at yahoo.com (Dimitrios Typaldos) Date: Sat, 2 Dec 2006 04:06:24 -0800 (PST) Subject: DocBook XML rises from the ashes! Message-ID: <20061202120624.39416.qmail@web57915.mail.re3.yahoo.com> o-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------o Hello, I am on GMT as Thierry and this choice is fine to me as well. I need to ask a question anyway: Is the day choice (Monday) ok for everyone ? Unless people eastern places are available (and happy) at very late hours I cannot see many solutions other than trying in weekend times or split the tutorial in two time-zones (is it possible ?). By my side I am happy as far as GMT <= 2 am Dimitris Typaldos o-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------o pub 1024D/6A7B898C 2006-11-16 Key fingerprint = F892 27EB 871A 3C16 B18E 3AD5 3A6A 3F77 6A7B 898C uid Dimitrios Typaldos (Encrypted) sub 2048g/4773BB57 2006-11-16 ----- Original Message ---- From: John Babich To: For participants of the Documentation Project Sent: Saturday, December 2, 2006 10:52:25 AM Subject: Re: DocBook XML rises from the ashes! On 12/2/06, Vladimir Kosovac wrote: > I can't see how Paul's Monday afternoon (US Atlantic coast) can be > Thursday your time. You are just 8 hours ahead of Paul. Besides asking "dumb" questions, I'm also great at "stupid" responses. Paul *is* talking about Monday at 5 PM, which, of course, is my Tuesday at 1 AM. John Babich -- fedora-docs-list mailing list fedora-docs-list at redhat.com To unsubscribe: https://www.redhat.com/mailman/listinfo/fedora-docs-list Check out the all-new Yahoo! Mail beta - Fire up a more powerful email and get things done faster. ____________________________________________________________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? Everyone is raving about the all-new Yahoo! Mail beta. http://new.mail.yahoo.com -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From dtfedora at yahoo.com Sat Dec 2 11:53:28 2006 From: dtfedora at yahoo.com (Dimitrios Typaldos) Date: Sat, 2 Dec 2006 03:53:28 -0800 (PST) Subject: DocBook XML rises from the ashes! Message-ID: <20061202115329.68505.qmail@web57910.mail.re3.yahoo.com> Hello, I am on GMT as Thierry and this choice is fine to me as well. I need to ask a question anyway: Is the day choice (Monday) ok for everyone ? Unless people eastern places are available (and happy) at very late hours I cannot see many solutions other than trying in weekend times or split the tutorial in two time-zones (is it possible ?). By my side I am happy as far as GMT <= 2 am Dimitris Typaldos o-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------o pub 1024D/6A7B898C 2006-11-16 Key fingerprint = F892 27EB 871A 3C16 B18E 3AD5 3A6A 3F77 6A7B 898C uid Dimitrios Typaldos (Encrypted) sub 2048g/4773BB57 2006-11-16 ----- Original Message ---- From: John Babich To: For participants of the Documentation Project Sent: Saturday, December 2, 2006 10:52:25 AM Subject: Re: DocBook XML rises from the ashes! On 12/2/06, Vladimir Kosovac wrote: > I can't see how Paul's Monday afternoon (US Atlantic coast) can be > Thursday your time. You are just 8 hours ahead of Paul. Besides asking "dumb" questions, I'm also great at "stupid" responses. Paul *is* talking about Monday at 5 PM, which, of course, is my Tuesday at 1 AM. John Babich -- fedora-docs-list mailing list fedora-docs-list at redhat.com To unsubscribe: https://www.redhat.com/mailman/listinfo/fedora-docs-list ____________________________________________________________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? Everyone is raving about the all-new Yahoo! Mail beta. http://new.mail.yahoo.com -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From stickster at gmail.com Sat Dec 2 18:22:26 2006 From: stickster at gmail.com (Paul W. Frields) Date: Sat, 02 Dec 2006 13:22:26 -0500 Subject: DocBook XML rises from the ashes! In-Reply-To: <20061202115329.68505.qmail@web57910.mail.re3.yahoo.com> References: <20061202115329.68505.qmail@web57910.mail.re3.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <1165083746.25685.91.camel@localhost.localdomain> OK, given the time zone thing, maybe a Saturday morning would work better for everyone. My wife and I have two little ones, so I'm used to getting up pretty early. ;-) As long as I can get my coffee first, we're good to go. If I did, say, 9am Eastern (1400 GMT) on Saturday, December 9, would that work for everyone? AIUI, that means 5pm for John, et al., but the 3am slot is pretty brutal for Sam. Perhaps doing this twice makes sense then, once on Monday night at 2200 GMT (5:00pm Eastern), and then again on Saturday at 1400 GMT (9:00am Eastern). -- Paul W. Frields, RHCE http://paul.frields.org/ gpg fingerprint: 3DA6 A0AC 6D58 FEC4 0233 5906 ACDB C937 BD11 3717 Fedora Project Board: http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Board Fedora Docs Project: http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/DocsProject -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: signature.asc Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 189 bytes Desc: This is a digitally signed message part URL: From stickster at gmail.com Sat Dec 2 18:23:30 2006 From: stickster at gmail.com (Paul W. Frields) Date: Sat, 02 Dec 2006 13:23:30 -0500 Subject: DocBook XML rises from the ashes! In-Reply-To: <1165083746.25685.91.camel@localhost.localdomain> References: <20061202115329.68505.qmail@web57910.mail.re3.yahoo.com> <1165083746.25685.91.camel@localhost.localdomain> Message-ID: <1165083810.25685.93.camel@localhost.localdomain> On Sat, 2006-12-02 at 13:22 -0500, Paul W. Frields wrote: > but the 3am slot is pretty brutal for Sam. ^^^ That should have read "Vladimir," sorry! -- Paul W. Frields, RHCE http://paul.frields.org/ gpg fingerprint: 3DA6 A0AC 6D58 FEC4 0233 5906 ACDB C937 BD11 3717 Fedora Project Board: http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Board Fedora Docs Project: http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/DocsProject -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: signature.asc Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 189 bytes Desc: This is a digitally signed message part URL: From jmbabich at gmail.com Sat Dec 2 20:41:47 2006 From: jmbabich at gmail.com (John Babich) Date: Sat, 2 Dec 2006 23:41:47 +0300 Subject: DocBook XML rises from the ashes! In-Reply-To: <1165083746.25685.91.camel@localhost.localdomain> References: <20061202115329.68505.qmail@web57910.mail.re3.yahoo.com> <1165083746.25685.91.camel@localhost.localdomain> Message-ID: <9d2c731f0612021241i600583ceoc1306d2680cccb5e@mail.gmail.com> On 12/2/06, Paul W. Frields wrote: > > If I did, say, 9am Eastern (1400 GMT) on Saturday, December 9, would > that work for everyone? AIUI, that means 5pm for John, et al., but the > 3am slot is pretty brutal for Sam. Perhaps doing this twice makes sense > then, once on Monday night at 2200 GMT (5:00pm Eastern), and then again > on Saturday at 1400 GMT (9:00am Eastern). > Just to further complicate your life, I work on Saturdays. How about 10am EST (1500 GMT) Saturday, 6 PM for me (John), etc.? John Babich From vnk at mkc.co.nz Sat Dec 2 21:05:53 2006 From: vnk at mkc.co.nz (Vladimir Kosovac) Date: Sun, 03 Dec 2006 10:05:53 +1300 Subject: DocBook XML rises from the ashes! In-Reply-To: <1165083810.25685.93.camel@localhost.localdomain> References: <20061202115329.68505.qmail@web57910.mail.re3.yahoo.com> <1165083746.25685.91.camel@localhost.localdomain> <1165083810.25685.93.camel@localhost.localdomain> Message-ID: <4571EAB1.20303@mkc.co.nz> Paul W. Frields wrote: > On Sat, 2006-12-02 at 13:22 -0500, Paul W. Frields wrote: >> but the 3am slot is pretty brutal for Sam. > ^^^ > That should have read "Vladimir," sorry! > > No worries, I've been already brutalised by one of the clients for next weekend overnight. Sam sounds cool, too :-) V From stickster at gmail.com Sun Dec 3 15:29:36 2006 From: stickster at gmail.com (Paul W. Frields) Date: Sun, 03 Dec 2006 10:29:36 -0500 Subject: DocBook XML rises from the ashes! In-Reply-To: <9d2c731f0612021241i600583ceoc1306d2680cccb5e@mail.gmail.com> References: <20061202115329.68505.qmail@web57910.mail.re3.yahoo.com> <1165083746.25685.91.camel@localhost.localdomain> <9d2c731f0612021241i600583ceoc1306d2680cccb5e@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <1165159776.5101.0.camel@localhost.localdomain> On Sat, 2006-12-02 at 23:41 +0300, John Babich wrote: > On 12/2/06, Paul W. Frields wrote: > > > > > If I did, say, 9am Eastern (1400 GMT) on Saturday, December 9, would > > that work for everyone? AIUI, that means 5pm for John, et al., but the > > 3am slot is pretty brutal for Sam. Perhaps doing this twice makes sense > > then, once on Monday night at 2200 GMT (5:00pm Eastern), and then again > > on Saturday at 1400 GMT (9:00am Eastern). > > > Just to further complicate your life, I work on Saturdays. How about 10am EST > (1500 GMT) Saturday, 6 PM for me (John), etc.? Actually that works out very well. I realized I have to get up later that day since I have a late-night commitment already. So 10:00am Eastern on Saturday it is. -- Paul W. Frields, RHCE http://paul.frields.org/ gpg fingerprint: 3DA6 A0AC 6D58 FEC4 0233 5906 ACDB C937 BD11 3717 Fedora Project Board: http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Board Fedora Docs Project: http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/DocsProject -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: signature.asc Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 189 bytes Desc: This is a digitally signed message part URL: From jmbabich at gmail.com Sun Dec 3 16:04:08 2006 From: jmbabich at gmail.com (John Babich) Date: Sun, 3 Dec 2006 19:04:08 +0300 Subject: DocBook XML rises from the ashes! In-Reply-To: <1165159776.5101.0.camel@localhost.localdomain> References: <20061202115329.68505.qmail@web57910.mail.re3.yahoo.com> <1165083746.25685.91.camel@localhost.localdomain> <9d2c731f0612021241i600583ceoc1306d2680cccb5e@mail.gmail.com> <1165159776.5101.0.camel@localhost.localdomain> Message-ID: <9d2c731f0612030804i71dc4c50j6fbcef1a146b5f54@mail.gmail.com> I'll be there John Babich On 12/3/06, Paul W. Frields wrote: > On Sat, 2006-12-02 at 23:41 +0300, John Babich wrote: > > On 12/2/06, Paul W. Frields wrote: > > > > > > > > If I did, say, 9am Eastern (1400 GMT) on Saturday, December 9, would > > > that work for everyone? AIUI, that means 5pm for John, et al., but the > > > 3am slot is pretty brutal for Sam. Perhaps doing this twice makes sense > > > then, once on Monday night at 2200 GMT (5:00pm Eastern), and then again > > > on Saturday at 1400 GMT (9:00am Eastern). > > > > > Just to further complicate your life, I work on Saturdays. How about 10am EST > > (1500 GMT) Saturday, 6 PM for me (John), etc.? > > Actually that works out very well. I realized I have to get up later > that day since I have a late-night commitment already. So 10:00am > Eastern on Saturday it is. > > -- > Paul W. Frields, RHCE http://paul.frields.org/ > gpg fingerprint: 3DA6 A0AC 6D58 FEC4 0233 5906 ACDB C937 BD11 3717 > Fedora Project Board: http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Board > Fedora Docs Project: http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/DocsProject > > > -- > fedora-docs-list mailing list > fedora-docs-list at redhat.com > To unsubscribe: > https://www.redhat.com/mailman/listinfo/fedora-docs-list > > > From vnk at mkc.co.nz Sun Dec 3 20:48:17 2006 From: vnk at mkc.co.nz (Vladimir Kosovac) Date: Mon, 4 Dec 2006 09:48:17 +1300 (NZDT) Subject: DocBook XML rises from the ashes! In-Reply-To: <9d2c731f0612030804i71dc4c50j6fbcef1a146b5f54@mail.gmail.com> References: <20061202115329.68505.qmail@web57910.mail.re3.yahoo.com> <1165083746.25685.91.camel@localhost.localdomain> <9d2c731f0612021241i600583ceoc1306d2680cccb5e@mail.gmail.com> <1165159776.5101.0.camel@localhost.localdomain> <9d2c731f0612030804i71dc4c50j6fbcef1a146b5f54@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <43214.202.74.202.139.1165178897.squirrel@www.mkc.co.nz> Noted for next weekend Vladimir On Mon, December 4, 2006 5:04 am, John Babich wrote: |*| I'll be there |*| |*| John Babich |*| |*| On 12/3/06, Paul W. Frields wrote: |*|> On Sat, 2006-12-02 at 23:41 +0300, John Babich wrote: |*|> > On 12/2/06, Paul W. Frields wrote: |*|> > |*|> > > |*|> > > If I did, say, 9am Eastern (1400 GMT) on Saturday, December 9, would |*|> > > that work for everyone? AIUI, that means 5pm for John, et al., but |*|> the |*|> > > 3am slot is pretty brutal for Sam. Perhaps doing this twice makes |*|> sense |*|> > > then, once on Monday night at 2200 GMT (5:00pm Eastern), and then |*|> again |*|> > > on Saturday at 1400 GMT (9:00am Eastern). |*|> > > |*|> > Just to further complicate your life, I work on Saturdays. How about |*|> 10am EST |*|> > (1500 GMT) Saturday, 6 PM for me (John), etc.? |*|> |*|> Actually that works out very well. I realized I have to get up later |*|> that day since I have a late-night commitment already. So 10:00am |*|> Eastern on Saturday it is. |*|> |*|> -- |*|> Paul W. Frields, RHCE http://paul.frields.org/ |*|> gpg fingerprint: 3DA6 A0AC 6D58 FEC4 0233 5906 ACDB C937 BD11 3717 |*|> Fedora Project Board: http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Board |*|> Fedora Docs Project: http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/DocsProject |*|> |*|> |*|> -- |*|> fedora-docs-list mailing list |*|> fedora-docs-list at redhat.com |*|> To unsubscribe: |*|> https://www.redhat.com/mailman/listinfo/fedora-docs-list |*|> |*|> |*|> |*| |*| -- |*| fedora-docs-list mailing list |*| fedora-docs-list at redhat.com |*| To unsubscribe: |*| https://www.redhat.com/mailman/listinfo/fedora-docs-list |*| From grejigl-gnomeprevod at yahoo.ca Sun Dec 3 23:02:41 2006 From: grejigl-gnomeprevod at yahoo.ca (Igor Miletic) Date: Sun, 03 Dec 2006 18:02:41 -0500 Subject: Self Introduction: Igor Miletic Message-ID: <1165186962.12796.62.camel@LinuxFC6> Full Name: Igor Miletic City, Country: Ottawa, Canada Profession: Electrical Engineer, student School: Carleton University My goal in Fedora docs project is: - to translate documentation in Serbian language - also time permitting I would like to help creating more documentation where needed My historical qualifications: - I have been translating Fedora to Serbian for the last year - I have few technical publications in peer reviewed conferences - good computer skills, beginner level c/c++, lisp, java coding skills (mostly as a side effect of the profession rather than a computer scientist) GPG KEYID and Fingerprint [imiletic at miletic .gnupg]$ gpg --fingerprint 7C08C57E pub 1024D/7C08C57E 2006-09-11 Key fingerprint = DA3D 54D1 D43B 06EF 7FA8 6924 3D68 184B 7C08 C57E uid Igor Miletic (???? ????) sub 2048g/44BAFCBC 2006-09-11 -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: signature.asc Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 189 bytes Desc: ??? ?? ??? ?????? ?? ?????????? ???????? URL: From paulo.banon at googlemail.com Mon Dec 4 16:00:27 2006 From: paulo.banon at googlemail.com (Paulo Santos) Date: Mon, 4 Dec 2006 16:00:27 +0000 Subject: Wiki Migration Message-ID: <7a41c4bc0612040800p578cd7f5k3664cf11f0346cec@mail.gmail.com> Hi everyone, As you know, after the release of FC6, we had problems with the amount of connections to our servers. This made the wiki unavailable as well as other related problems. With this concern, the Fedora Infrastructure Team, have been working in a way to prevent this from happening again. Our first step, is the wiki migration. We are now ready to test the future wiki platform, and this is why i'm sending this email. URL: http://webtest.fedora.redhat.com/wiki (MoinMoin 1.5.6) Please track all problems under http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Infrastructure/WikiMigration, edit that page as you see fit, so that we can fix any problems that you guys may encounter. Feel free to contact me if necessary. Many thanks, Paulo -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From ghenry at suretecsystems.com Mon Dec 4 19:17:40 2006 From: ghenry at suretecsystems.com (Gavin Henry) Date: Mon, 4 Dec 2006 19:17:40 -0000 (UTC) Subject: Loot and LugRadio In-Reply-To: <4c91566f0612041047u1393a54dg457d9c389c9ba10e@mail.gmail.com> References: <4c91566f0612041047u1393a54dg457d9c389c9ba10e@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <45973.192.168.100.90.1165259860.squirrel@webmail.suretecsystems.com> > Gavin, > > What are the chances of the Fedora Ambassadors sending me some free > Red Hat/Fedora loot to give out to my LUG at our Christmas party? I > spoke to J5 who pointed me in the direction of the Ambassadors for > this sort of thing :) > > Incidentally, I note on your wiki page over there that you have "To > look into getting a FDSCo interview on lugradio.org" as a todo item; I > might be able to help you with that ;-) > > sil > Cool! I'll speak Karsten and the Ambassadors group for you. What's the cut off date etc.? Gavin. -- Kind Regards, Gavin Henry. Managing Director. T +44 (0) 1224 279484 M +44 (0) 7930 323266 F +44 (0) 1224 824887 E ghenry at suretecsystems.com Open Source. Open Solutions(tm). http://www.suretecsystems.com/ From kwade at redhat.com Mon Dec 4 19:31:21 2006 From: kwade at redhat.com (Karsten Wade) Date: Mon, 04 Dec 2006 11:31:21 -0800 Subject: Lest anyone think we're alone... In-Reply-To: <4569045D.9060409@cox.net> References: <1164382824.18400.9.camel@localhost.localdomain> <9d2c731f0611241109v563122c9lb49c147140c3a0c6@mail.gmail.com> <1164408234.18400.23.camel@localhost.localdomain> <9d2c731f0611242124g54bb4777s6b5b161e0f4514fc@mail.gmail.com> <4569045D.9060409@cox.net> Message-ID: <1165260681.24009.15.camel@erato.phig.org> On Sat, 2006-11-25 at 22:05 -0500, George Ganoe wrote: > Cooperation between KDE, Gnome, and other Desktop managers would be great > to see. However, I think it should be at the upstream level between the > various projects themselves. As to dissing other distributions for > what they choose to include in the distribution, I think that is uncalled > for. For instance, Ubuntu has made a concerted effort to provide as > complete a desktop environment as possible on a single CDROM disk. If > they were to put KDE as well as Gnome on the disk, something else would > have to go. Since KDE and Gnome serve the same function, they made a > choice, and with many other applications with multiple selections, they > made choices there as well. But in the end, they were able to create > a very complete desktop environment and put it on a single CD. If the > user wants to add KDE, they can select it for install in the "Synaptic > Package Manager" and get a very complete KDE desktop very easily, or > use the command line and type "sudo apt-get install kde" to get the same > thing. One of the big challenges we are facing here is figuring out how to satisfy the needs of all the distros and projects with a documentation commons. Perhaps the first order of business would be to figure out: 1. Is there something that can be done in making a commons? 2. Is there an outcome that is worth the effort? 3. Do other distros and projects care? - Karsten -- Karsten Wade, RHCE, 108 Editor ^ Fedora Documentation Project Sr. Developer Relations Mgr. | fedoraproject.org/wiki/DocsProject quaid.108.redhat.com | gpg key: AD0E0C41 ////////////////////////////////// \\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\ -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: signature.asc Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 189 bytes Desc: This is a digitally signed message part URL: From ghenry at suretecsystems.com Mon Dec 4 19:48:31 2006 From: ghenry at suretecsystems.com (Gavin Henry) Date: Mon, 4 Dec 2006 19:48:31 -0000 (UTC) Subject: [Ambassadors] Re: Loot and LugRadio In-Reply-To: <369bce3b0612041123q65cfd79cte4c831097096858e@mail.gmail.com> References: <4c91566f0612041047u1393a54dg457d9c389c9ba10e@mail.gmail.com> <45973.192.168.100.90.1165259860.squirrel@webmail.suretecsystems.com> <369bce3b0612041123q65cfd79cte4c831097096858e@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <44651.192.168.100.90.1165261711.squirrel@webmail.suretecsystems.com> > On 12/4/06, Gavin Henry wrote: >> >> > Gavin, >> > >> > What are the chances of the Fedora Ambassadors sending me some free >> > Red Hat/Fedora loot to give out to my LUG at our Christmas party? I >> > spoke to J5 who pointed me in the direction of the Ambassadors for >> > this sort of thing :) >> > >> > Incidentally, I note on your wiki page over there that you have "To >> > look into getting a FDSCo interview on lugradio.org" as a todo item; I >> > might be able to help you with that ;-) >> > >> > sil >> > >> >> Cool! >> >> I'll speak Karsten and the Ambassadors group for you. What's the cut off >> date etc.? >> >> Gavin. >> >> -- >> Kind Regards, >> >> Gavin Henry > > Hi Gavin, > Please have him contact me direct. > I can send him some FC6 DVDs via Fedora Free Media Program. Hi Stuart, See above. Many thanks! Gavin. From dtfedora at yahoo.com Mon Dec 4 23:11:05 2006 From: dtfedora at yahoo.com (Dimitrios Typaldos) Date: Mon, 4 Dec 2006 15:11:05 -0800 (PST) Subject: DocBook XML rises from the ashes! Message-ID: <20061204231105.83720.qmail@web57901.mail.re3.yahoo.com> I am going to follow the next Saturday's tutorial. Regards Dimitris o-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------o pub 1024D/6A7B898C 2006-11-16 Key fingerprint = F892 27EB 871A 3C16 B18E 3AD5 3A6A 3F77 6A7B 898C uid Dimitrios Typaldos (Encrypted) sub 2048g/4773BB57 2006-11-16 ____________________________________________________________________________________ Yahoo! Music Unlimited Access over 1 million songs. http://music.yahoo.com/unlimited -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From kwade at redhat.com Mon Dec 4 23:46:19 2006 From: kwade at redhat.com (Karsten Wade) Date: Mon, 04 Dec 2006 15:46:19 -0800 Subject: Wiki Migration In-Reply-To: <7a41c4bc0612040800p578cd7f5k3664cf11f0346cec@mail.gmail.com> References: <7a41c4bc0612040800p578cd7f5k3664cf11f0346cec@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <1165275979.24009.70.camel@erato.phig.org> On Mon, 2006-12-04 at 16:00 +0000, Paulo Santos wrote: > URL: http://webtest.fedora.redhat.com/wiki (MoinMoin 1.5.6) > > Please track all problems under > http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Infrastructure/WikiMigration, edit that > page as you see fit, so that we can fix any problems that you guys may > encounter. One test we want to do is Wiki to XML conversion. Someone from FDP will definitely test this, and one of the main tools used is this script[1]. It should be backported to use the 1.5.6 syntax (?) ... or it won't work and the other script[2] in the module needs to be hacked. This might be useful to include in a testing script by the FI folks. [1] cvs.fedoraproject.org:/cvs/docs/release-notes/devel/xmlbeats/beatconvert [2] cvs.fedoraproject.org:/cvs/docs/release-notes/devel/xmlbeats/xmlbeats - Karsten -- Karsten Wade, RHCE, 108 Editor ^ Fedora Documentation Project Sr. Developer Relations Mgr. | fedoraproject.org/wiki/DocsProject quaid.108.redhat.com | gpg key: AD0E0C41 ////////////////////////////////// \\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\ -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: signature.asc Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 189 bytes Desc: This is a digitally signed message part URL: From kwade at redhat.com Tue Dec 5 00:03:29 2006 From: kwade at redhat.com (Karsten Wade) Date: Mon, 04 Dec 2006 16:03:29 -0800 Subject: Administration Guide modules and getting started Message-ID: <1165277009.24009.81.camel@erato.phig.org> The consensus for working on the Fedora Administration Guide is to break it down into modules. A contributor works on one or more modules. Each module is one or more chapters in a particular topic area. This is similar to how Docs/Beats/ turns into the release notes, except it is conceivable to have multiple chapters in a module. There are a number of you who have expressed interest in working on this guide. Congratulations, you are now all on the team. :) Please fill in this page: http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Docs/Drafts/AdministrationGuide/Contributors Work out amongst yourselves who is going to do what. If you wish, you can select a lead writer[0]. Each module needs a technical editor and a wordsmith editor; you can use each other, etc. Use this list for discussions; we'd all like to see what is going on.[1] When you are ready, we can create a component in bugzilla.redhat.com for this guide. That allows you to use bugzilla as a task tracker that is tied into other parts of Fedora, which continues to be used when the content is bundled as XML in CVS, and eventually tracks bugs when the content is a package in F*7.[2] - Karsten [0] http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/DocsProject/Roles/LeadWriter [1] Anyone who wants to watch this guide get worked on can subscribe to watch the page changes by: 1. Go to http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/UserPreferences 2. At the bottom of the page under 'Subscribed wiki pages (one regex per line)', put in the regular expression: Docs/Drafts/AdministrationGuide.* 3. Click 'Save' The regexp .* is a wildcard, similar to using * to mean any character any number of times. [2] I think you are going to quickly find the limitations of doing a full-length book in the Wiki. Based on the topic outline I've seen so far, the high level of experience on the writing team, and the user need ... there is easily 100 pages of content you can create. Keep that in mind as you move forward; you can pull the switch and convert to XML at any time. -- Karsten Wade, RHCE, 108 Editor ^ Fedora Documentation Project Sr. Developer Relations Mgr. | fedoraproject.org/wiki/DocsProject quaid.108.redhat.com | gpg key: AD0E0C41 ////////////////////////////////// \\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\ -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: signature.asc Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 189 bytes Desc: This is a digitally signed message part URL: From linux at glossolalie.org Tue Dec 5 08:24:56 2006 From: linux at glossolalie.org (Thierry Sayegh De Bellis) Date: Tue, 05 Dec 2006 08:24:56 +0000 Subject: Administration Guide modules and getting started In-Reply-To: <1165277009.24009.81.camel@erato.phig.org> References: <1165277009.24009.81.camel@erato.phig.org> Message-ID: <45752CD8.6040206@glossolalie.org> -----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- Hash: SHA1 Karsten Wade wrote: > The consensus for working on the Fedora Administration Guide is to break > it down into modules. A contributor works on one or more modules. Each > module is one or more chapters in a particular topic area. This is > similar to how Docs/Beats/ turns into the release notes, except it is > conceivable to have multiple chapters in a module. > > There are a number of you who have expressed interest in working on this > guide. Congratulations, you are now all on the team. :) Please fill in > this page: > > http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Docs/Drafts/AdministrationGuide/Contributors And now for the possibly daft question but how do we actually know where help is required because I will have to assume a lot of things are actually being done in the background. Who does what/need help? I'd be game on the managing storage module for instance... Also i don't seem to have edit rights on the wiki :( Any help or pointers greatly appreciated. - -- (o< Thierry Sayegh De Bellis, RHCE //\ http://glossolalie.com V_/_ Fingerprint: 9976 11FE D9C6 8C67 6242 7BB1 6466 3F1D 56ED 7D5A -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: GnuPG v1.2.4 (Darwin) Comment: Using GnuPG with Mozilla - http://enigmail.mozdev.org iD8DBQFFdSzYZGY/HVbtfVoRAl6qAKCLwK8SYlWRe/77bZdr282WKqRmtgCgrzvb ynWb7ajWCGRiqqSjJRkVRwQ= =EvUf -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- From paulo.banon at googlemail.com Tue Dec 5 09:12:46 2006 From: paulo.banon at googlemail.com (Paulo Santos) Date: Tue, 5 Dec 2006 09:12:46 +0000 Subject: Administration Guide modules and getting started In-Reply-To: <45752CD8.6040206@glossolalie.org> References: <1165277009.24009.81.camel@erato.phig.org> <45752CD8.6040206@glossolalie.org> Message-ID: <7a41c4bc0612050112p4e4d99c7h861347e358bfcbce@mail.gmail.com> Thierry, Regarding the edit rights on the wiki you need to create a wiki account and sign the CLA. Everything is described here: http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/WikiEditing Paulo On 12/5/06, Thierry Sayegh De Bellis wrote: > > -----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- > Hash: SHA1 > > Karsten Wade wrote: > > The consensus for working on the Fedora Administration Guide is to break > > it down into modules. A contributor works on one or more modules. Each > > module is one or more chapters in a particular topic area. This is > > similar to how Docs/Beats/ turns into the release notes, except it is > > conceivable to have multiple chapters in a module. > > > > There are a number of you who have expressed interest in working on this > > guide. Congratulations, you are now all on the team. :) Please fill in > > this page: > > > > > http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Docs/Drafts/AdministrationGuide/Contributors > And now for the possibly daft question but how do we actually know where > help is required because I will have to assume a lot of things are > actually being done in the background. > Who does what/need help? > I'd be game on the managing storage module for instance... > > Also i don't seem to have edit rights on the wiki :( > > Any help or pointers greatly appreciated. > > > > - -- > (o< Thierry Sayegh De Bellis, RHCE > //\ http://glossolalie.com > V_/_ Fingerprint: 9976 11FE D9C6 8C67 6242 7BB1 6466 3F1D 56ED 7D5A > -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- > Version: GnuPG v1.2.4 (Darwin) > Comment: Using GnuPG with Mozilla - http://enigmail.mozdev.org > > iD8DBQFFdSzYZGY/HVbtfVoRAl6qAKCLwK8SYlWRe/77bZdr282WKqRmtgCgrzvb > ynWb7ajWCGRiqqSjJRkVRwQ= > =EvUf > -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- > > -- > fedora-docs-list mailing list > fedora-docs-list at redhat.com > To unsubscribe: > https://www.redhat.com/mailman/listinfo/fedora-docs-list > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From linux at glossolalie.org Tue Dec 5 09:39:24 2006 From: linux at glossolalie.org (Thierry Sayegh De Bellis) Date: Tue, 05 Dec 2006 10:39:24 +0100 Subject: Administration Guide modules and getting started Message-ID: <21357724.2098171165311564163.JavaMail.servlet@kundenserver> > > >Thierry, > >Regarding the edit rights on the wiki you need to create a wiki account >and sign the CLA. > >Everything is described here: >http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/WikiEditing > >Paulo Well I _should_ have specified that I have already done this but still no luck with editing Thierry From vnk at mkc.co.nz Tue Dec 5 13:03:12 2006 From: vnk at mkc.co.nz (Vladimir Kosovac) Date: Wed, 06 Dec 2006 02:03:12 +1300 Subject: Administration Guide modules and getting started In-Reply-To: <21357724.2098171165311564163.JavaMail.servlet@kundenserver> References: <21357724.2098171165311564163.JavaMail.servlet@kundenserver> Message-ID: <45756E10.1090107@mkc.co.nz> Thierry Sayegh De Bellis wrote: >> >> Thierry, >> >> Regarding the edit rights on the wiki you need to create a wiki account >and sign the CLA. >> >> Everything is described here: >> http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/WikiEditing >> >> Paulo > > > Well I _should_ have specified that I have already done this but still no luck with editing > > Thierry > You need to get in touch with one of the people listed on http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/EditGroup and ask for edit rights. Full procedure is here: http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Docs/WritingUsingTheWiki Cheers, V -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: signature.asc Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 251 bytes Desc: OpenPGP digital signature URL: From stickster at gmail.com Tue Dec 5 14:28:39 2006 From: stickster at gmail.com (Paul W. Frields) Date: Tue, 05 Dec 2006 09:28:39 -0500 Subject: Administration Guide modules and getting started In-Reply-To: <21357724.2098171165311564163.JavaMail.servlet@kundenserver> References: <21357724.2098171165311564163.JavaMail.servlet@kundenserver> Message-ID: <1165328919.5571.41.camel@localhost.localdomain> On Tue, 2006-12-05 at 10:39 +0100, Thierry Sayegh De Bellis wrote: > > > > > >Thierry, > > > >Regarding the edit rights on the wiki you need to create a wiki > account >and sign the CLA. > > > >Everything is described here: > >http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/WikiEditing > > > >Paulo > > > Well I _should_ have specified that I have already done this but still > no luck with editing I see you in the cla_done group, but I need to know your WikiName and then I can add you to the EditGroup. -- Paul W. Frields, RHCE http://paul.frields.org/ gpg fingerprint: 3DA6 A0AC 6D58 FEC4 0233 5906 ACDB C937 BD11 3717 Fedora Project Board: http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Board Fedora Docs Project: http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/DocsProject -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: signature.asc Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 189 bytes Desc: This is a digitally signed message part URL: From dtfedora at yahoo.com Tue Dec 5 16:18:21 2006 From: dtfedora at yahoo.com (Dimitrios Typaldos) Date: Tue, 5 Dec 2006 08:18:21 -0800 (PST) Subject: Administration Guide modules and getting started Message-ID: <20061205161821.57812.qmail@web57915.mail.re3.yahoo.com> Hello, I would be interested in contributing on one of the first chapter of Docs/Drafts for example "Understanding the directory structure" if you are glad with this choice. Please let me know if that's ok. Dimitri o-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------o pub 1024D/6A7B898C 2006-11-16 Key fingerprint = F892 27EB 871A 3C16 B18E 3AD5 3A6A 3F77 6A7B 898C uid Dimitrios Typaldos (Encrypted) sub 2048g/4773BB57 2006-11-16 ____________________________________________________________________________________ Have a burning question? Go to www.Answers.yahoo.com and get answers from real people who know. From draciron at gmail.com Tue Dec 5 16:23:59 2006 From: draciron at gmail.com (Dan Smith) Date: Tue, 5 Dec 2006 10:23:59 -0600 Subject: Administration Guide modules and getting started In-Reply-To: <20061205161821.57812.qmail@web57915.mail.re3.yahoo.com> References: <20061205161821.57812.qmail@web57915.mail.re3.yahoo.com> Message-ID: I've already done a rough on dir structure and partitioning so far. Just trying to figure the protocol about adding them in. Want to get some feedback primarily on the style I'm using for the documentation. On 12/5/06, Dimitrios Typaldos wrote: > > Hello, > > I would be interested in contributing on one of the first chapter of > Docs/Drafts for example > "Understanding the directory structure" if you are glad with this choice. > Please let me know if that's ok. > > Dimitri > > > o-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------o > > pub 1024D/6A7B898C 2006-11-16 > Key fingerprint = F892 27EB 871A 3C16 B18E 3AD5 3A6A 3F77 6A7B 898C > uid Dimitrios Typaldos (Encrypted) > sub 2048g/4773BB57 2006-11-16 > > > > > > > > > > > ____________________________________________________________________________________ > Have a burning question? > Go to www.Answers.yahoo.com and get answers from real people who know. > > -- > fedora-docs-list mailing list > fedora-docs-list at redhat.com > To unsubscribe: > https://www.redhat.com/mailman/listinfo/fedora-docs-list > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From linux at glossolalie.org Tue Dec 5 19:11:46 2006 From: linux at glossolalie.org (Thierry Sayegh De Bellis) Date: Tue, 05 Dec 2006 19:11:46 +0000 Subject: Administration Guide modules and getting started In-Reply-To: <1165328919.5571.41.camel@localhost.localdomain> References: <21357724.2098171165311564163.JavaMail.servlet@kundenserver> <1165328919.5571.41.camel@localhost.localdomain> Message-ID: <4575C472.3020204@glossolalie.org> -----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- Hash: SHA1 Paul W. Frields wrote: no luck with editing > > I see you in the cla_done group, but I need to know your WikiName and > then I can add you to the EditGroup. > > ThierrySayeghDeBellis :) - -- (o< Thierry Sayegh De Bellis, RHCE //\ http://glossolalie.com V_/_ Fingerprint: 9976 11FE D9C6 8C67 6242 7BB1 6466 3F1D 56ED 7D5A -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: GnuPG v1.2.4 (Darwin) Comment: Using GnuPG with Mozilla - http://enigmail.mozdev.org iD8DBQFFdcRyZGY/HVbtfVoRAsqSAJ9H4oVAdR23k3VJtaqbvDyofqkE4wCePWZO yeh5nDsqmv9Kj8yCYdnNs/c= =4kOM -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- From linux at glossolalie.org Tue Dec 5 23:14:55 2006 From: linux at glossolalie.org (Thierry Sayegh De Bellis) Date: Tue, 05 Dec 2006 23:14:55 +0000 Subject: Admin guide modules - Managing storage Message-ID: <4575FD6F.40300@glossolalie.org> -----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- Hash: SHA1 Hi everyone, following up on Karsten's email... Anybody working on Managing storage already or shall I just go ahead and put my name against it? cheers Thierry - -- (o< Thierry Sayegh De Bellis, RHCE //\ http://glossolalie.com V_/_ Fingerprint: 9976 11FE D9C6 8C67 6242 7BB1 6466 3F1D 56ED 7D5A -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: GnuPG v1.2.4 (Darwin) Comment: Using GnuPG with Mozilla - http://enigmail.mozdev.org iD8DBQFFdf1vZGY/HVbtfVoRAh6nAJ9d3vnNmfrc3Df0OwDFJaYLPpyUbACbBWRa l5Rb9LhfHhQyj8h31eDkNM0= =Crr6 -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- From sundaram at fedoraproject.org Tue Dec 5 23:16:07 2006 From: sundaram at fedoraproject.org (Rahul Sundaram) Date: Wed, 06 Dec 2006 04:46:07 +0530 Subject: Admin guide modules - Managing storage In-Reply-To: <4575FD6F.40300@glossolalie.org> References: <4575FD6F.40300@glossolalie.org> Message-ID: <4575FDB7.5000904@fedoraproject.org> Thierry Sayegh De Bellis wrote: > -----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- > Hash: SHA1 > > Hi everyone, > > following up on Karsten's email... > > Anybody working on Managing storage already or shall I just go ahead and > put my name against it? If the wiki section doesnt have a name against it, its up for grabs. Take it. Have fun. It's all yours. Rahul From kwade at redhat.com Tue Dec 5 23:34:36 2006 From: kwade at redhat.com (Karsten Wade) Date: Tue, 05 Dec 2006 15:34:36 -0800 Subject: meeting agenda 05-Dec-2006, same timing Message-ID: <1165361676.24009.135.camel@erato.phig.org> 0100 to 0400 UTC 0100 to 0130 UTC Business meeting 0130 to 0400 UTC Working meeting * Shall we stop using f-dsco-l and do all FDSCo work on f-docs-l? * Standard task tracker, status check: http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/DocsProject/SteeringCommittee/TaskSchedule * Trans and Docs work (Hugo, Tommy) - CVS - Processes * FI check-in - Moin Moin update - Early Plone testing? * FLOSS Docs Summit - Open discussion * AOB - Karsten -- Karsten Wade, RHCE, 108 Editor ^ Fedora Documentation Project Sr. Developer Relations Mgr. | fedoraproject.org/wiki/DocsProject quaid.108.redhat.com | gpg key: AD0E0C41 ////////////////////////////////// \\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\ -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: signature.asc Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 189 bytes Desc: This is a digitally signed message part URL: From kwade at redhat.com Tue Dec 5 23:40:33 2006 From: kwade at redhat.com (Karsten Wade) Date: Tue, 05 Dec 2006 15:40:33 -0800 Subject: you are invited to the FDSCo meeting Message-ID: <1165362033.24009.143.camel@erato.phig.org> Who is the steering committee that is accountable for this project? What happens at our meetings? Are you invited to speak up? Come meet us, be a part of the meeting. Every one of us has a voice, we simply ask that the agenda[1] be followed during the business section of the meeting. Tuesday 05 Dec 2006 1700 PST/2000 EST/0100 UTC (Wed. 06 Dec) #fedora-docs irc.freenode.net Right now we are stretching the working part of the meeting to cover a few hours; this is an ongoing experiment. It is an opportunity to work, learn, and socialize (on topic) with other members of this content community. - Karsten [1] http://www.redhat.com/archives/fedora-docs-list/2006-December/msg00040.html -- Karsten Wade, RHCE, 108 Editor ^ Fedora Documentation Project Sr. Developer Relations Mgr. | fedoraproject.org/wiki/DocsProject quaid.108.redhat.com | gpg key: AD0E0C41 ////////////////////////////////// \\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\ -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: signature.asc Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 189 bytes Desc: This is a digitally signed message part URL: From kwade at redhat.com Tue Dec 5 23:50:07 2006 From: kwade at redhat.com (Karsten Wade) Date: Tue, 05 Dec 2006 15:50:07 -0800 Subject: Administration Guide modules and getting started In-Reply-To: References: <20061205161821.57812.qmail@web57915.mail.re3.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <1165362607.24009.150.camel@erato.phig.org> On Tue, 2006-12-05 at 10:23 -0600, Dan Smith wrote: > I've already done a rough on dir structure and partitioning so far. > Just trying to figure the protocol about adding them in. Want to get > some feedback primarily on the style I'm using for the documentation. 1. Get edit rights http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/WikiEditing#Getting_Edit_Access 2. Paste the content properly into the correct places in Docs/Drafts/AdministrationGuide 3. Post back to the list a request for wider feedback Be prepared for some or all of the feedback to be visible to all. > On 12/5/06, Dimitrios Typaldos wrote: > I would be interested in contributing on one of the first > chapter of Docs/Drafts for example > "Understanding the directory structure" if you are glad with > this choice. Please let me know if that's ok. Dimitri -- That is good. For the moment, why don't you grab the Technical Editor role for that section? If the section needs two writers, you can contribute there, as well. All -- If you see anything missing from the outline/table of contents, let's talk about what to add. The writing team has the lead on deciding on what to keep or not. - Karsten -- Karsten Wade, RHCE, 108 Editor ^ Fedora Documentation Project Sr. Developer Relations Mgr. | fedoraproject.org/wiki/DocsProject quaid.108.redhat.com | gpg key: AD0E0C41 ////////////////////////////////// \\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\ -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: signature.asc Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 189 bytes Desc: This is a digitally signed message part URL: From kwade at redhat.com Wed Dec 6 00:03:54 2006 From: kwade at redhat.com (Karsten Wade) Date: Tue, 05 Dec 2006 16:03:54 -0800 Subject: Self Introduction: Igor Miletic In-Reply-To: <1165186962.12796.62.camel@LinuxFC6> References: <1165186962.12796.62.camel@LinuxFC6> Message-ID: <1165363434.24009.157.camel@erato.phig.org> On Sun, 2006-12-03 at 18:02 -0500, Igor Miletic wrote: > Full Name: Igor Miletic > City, Country: Ottawa, Canada > Profession: Electrical Engineer, student > School: Carleton University Igor: Welcome to the Documentation Project. This is a fun time to be here, that's for certain. :) > My goal in Fedora docs project is: > - to translate documentation in Serbian language > - also time permitting I would like to help creating more > documentation where needed Do you know what kind of content you want to work on? For which audience? Anything here[1] or here[2] that interests you, or would you prefer more direction/instructions? [1] http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Docs/Drafts [2] http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/DocsProject/DocIdeas - Karsten -- Karsten Wade, RHCE, 108 Editor ^ Fedora Documentation Project Sr. Developer Relations Mgr. | fedoraproject.org/wiki/DocsProject quaid.108.redhat.com | gpg key: AD0E0C41 ////////////////////////////////// \\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\ -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: signature.asc Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 189 bytes Desc: This is a digitally signed message part URL: From dtfedora at yahoo.com Wed Dec 6 00:18:32 2006 From: dtfedora at yahoo.com (Dimitrios Typaldos) Date: Tue, 5 Dec 2006 16:18:32 -0800 (PST) Subject: Administration Guide modules and getting started Message-ID: <20061206001832.31390.qmail@web57915.mail.re3.yahoo.com> This would be fine. Do I need edit access to subscribe on this? Dimitri o-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------o pub 1024D/6A7B898C 2006-11-16 Key fingerprint = F892 27EB 871A 3C16 B18E 3AD5 3A6A 3F77 6A7B 898C uid Dimitrios Typaldos (Encrypted) sub 2048g/4773BB57 2006-11-16 ----- Original Message ---- From: Karsten Wade To: For participants of the Documentation Project Sent: Tuesday, December 5, 2006 11:50:07 PM Subject: Re: Re: Administration Guide modules and getting started On Tue, 2006-12-05 at 10:23 -0600, Dan Smith wrote: > I've already done a rough on dir structure and partitioning so far. > Just trying to figure the protocol about adding them in. Want to get > some feedback primarily on the style I'm using for the documentation. 1. Get edit rights http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/WikiEditing#Getting_Edit_Access 2. Paste the content properly into the correct places in Docs/Drafts/AdministrationGuide 3. Post back to the list a request for wider feedback Be prepared for some or all of the feedback to be visible to all. > On 12/5/06, Dimitrios Typaldos wrote: > I would be interested in contributing on one of the first > chapter of Docs/Drafts for example > "Understanding the directory structure" if you are glad with > this choice. Please let me know if that's ok. Dimitri -- That is good. For the moment, why don't you grab the Technical Editor role for that section? If the section needs two writers, you can contribute there, as well. All -- If you see anything missing from the outline/table of contents, let's talk about what to add. The writing team has the lead on deciding on what to keep or not. - Karsten -- Karsten Wade, RHCE, 108 Editor ^ Fedora Documentation Project Sr. Developer Relations Mgr. | fedoraproject.org/wiki/DocsProject quaid.108.redhat.com | gpg key: AD0E0C41 ////////////////////////////////// \\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\ -- fedora-docs-list mailing list fedora-docs-list at redhat.com To unsubscribe: https://www.redhat.com/mailman/listinfo/fedora-docs-list ____________________________________________________________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? Everyone is raving about the all-new Yahoo! Mail beta. http://new.mail.yahoo.com From dtfedora at yahoo.com Wed Dec 6 00:05:20 2006 From: dtfedora at yahoo.com (Dimitrios Typaldos) Date: Tue, 5 Dec 2006 16:05:20 -0800 (PST) Subject: request for edit group Message-ID: <20061206000520.27375.qmail@web57901.mail.re3.yahoo.com> Is there anyone that could help by introducing my name in the edit group ? My wikiName is DimitriosTypaldos. Thanks. Dimitri o-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------o pub 1024D/6A7B898C 2006-11-16 Key fingerprint = F892 27EB 871A 3C16 B18E 3AD5 3A6A 3F77 6A7B 898C uid Dimitrios Typaldos (Encrypted) sub 2048g/4773BB57 2006-11-16 ____________________________________________________________________________________ Need a quick answer? Get one in minutes from people who know. Ask your question on www.Answers.yahoo.com From grejigl-gnomeprevod at yahoo.ca Wed Dec 6 00:43:24 2006 From: grejigl-gnomeprevod at yahoo.ca (Igor Miletic) Date: Tue, 05 Dec 2006 19:43:24 -0500 Subject: Self Introduction: Igor Miletic In-Reply-To: <1165363434.24009.157.camel@erato.phig.org> References: <1165186962.12796.62.camel@LinuxFC6> <1165363434.24009.157.camel@erato.phig.org> Message-ID: <1165365804.7792.10.camel@LinuxFC6> ? ???, 05. 12 2006. ? 16:03 -0800, Karsten Wade ????: > On Sun, 2006-12-03 at 18:02 -0500, Igor Miletic wrote: > > Full Name: Igor Miletic > > City, Country: Ottawa, Canada > > Profession: Electrical Engineer, student > > School: Carleton University > > Igor: > > Welcome to the Documentation Project. This is a fun time to be here, > that's for certain. :) Thank you, and I can see that :). > > > My goal in Fedora docs project is: > > - to translate documentation in Serbian language > > - also time permitting I would like to help creating more > > documentation where needed > > Do you know what kind of content you want to work on? For which > audience? Anything here[1] or here[2] that interests you, or would you > prefer more direction/instructions? > > [1] http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Docs/Drafts > [2] http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/DocsProject/DocIdeas If I have to choose, I would prefer to write on something that helps beginners, for example people that just switched from Windows or that just encountered a computer in the first place. Desktop User Guide looks like an interesting starting point. http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Docs/Drafts/DesktopUserGuide Also, it is simple and it is something that I am familiar with. Cheers, Igor -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: signature.asc Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 189 bytes Desc: ??? ?? ??? ?????? ?? ?????????? ???????? URL: From lxtnow at gmail.com Wed Dec 6 00:47:41 2006 From: lxtnow at gmail.com (SmootherFrOgZ) Date: Tue, 5 Dec 2006 20:47:41 -0400 Subject: request for edit group In-Reply-To: <20061206000520.27375.qmail@web57901.mail.re3.yahoo.com> References: <20061206000520.27375.qmail@web57901.mail.re3.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <62bc09df0612051647k50823bc5h920c98758d13f567@mail.gmail.com> Hi dimitri, Did you complete all thing including CLA to get your name in the edit group ? Xavier -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From dtfedora at yahoo.com Wed Dec 6 00:55:07 2006 From: dtfedora at yahoo.com (Dimitrios Typaldos) Date: Tue, 5 Dec 2006 16:55:07 -0800 (PST) Subject: request for edit group Message-ID: <20061206005507.58823.qmail@web57910.mail.re3.yahoo.com> I think that this is the last thing missing from the list in the 'Getting Edit Access' wiki-page. In case you need to check my account my login is 'dtypald'. Dimitri o-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------o pub 1024D/6A7B898C 2006-11-16 Key fingerprint = F892 27EB 871A 3C16 B18E 3AD5 3A6A 3F77 6A7B 898C uid Dimitrios Typaldos (Encrypted) sub 2048g/4773BB57 2006-11-16 ----- Original Message ---- From: SmootherFrOgZ To: For participants of the Documentation Project Sent: Wednesday, December 6, 2006 12:47:41 AM Subject: Re: request for edit group Hi dimitri, Did you complete all thing including CLA to get your name in the edit group ? Xavier -- fedora-docs-list mailing list fedora-docs-list at redhat.com To unsubscribe: https://www.redhat.com/mailman/listinfo/fedora-docs-list ____________________________________________________________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? Everyone is raving about the all-new Yahoo! Mail beta. http://new.mail.yahoo.com -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From kwade at redhat.com Wed Dec 6 02:13:05 2006 From: kwade at redhat.com (Karsten Wade) Date: Tue, 05 Dec 2006 18:13:05 -0800 Subject: request for edit group In-Reply-To: <20061206005507.58823.qmail@web57910.mail.re3.yahoo.com> References: <20061206005507.58823.qmail@web57910.mail.re3.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <1165371185.24009.160.camel@erato.phig.org> On Tue, 2006-12-05 at 16:55 -0800, Dimitrios Typaldos wrote: > I think that this is the last thing missing from the list in the > 'Getting Edit Access' wiki-page. It mentions that you need the CLA, but I included an explicit instruction to have someone check you through the account query interface. > In case you need to check my account my login is 'dtypald'. I checked you, all is correct, and I added you to EditGroup. - Karsten -- Karsten Wade, RHCE, 108 Editor ^ Fedora Documentation Project Sr. Developer Relations Mgr. | fedoraproject.org/wiki/DocsProject quaid.108.redhat.com | gpg key: AD0E0C41 ////////////////////////////////// \\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\ -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: signature.asc Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 189 bytes Desc: This is a digitally signed message part URL: From kwade at redhat.com Wed Dec 6 02:20:36 2006 From: kwade at redhat.com (Karsten Wade) Date: Tue, 05 Dec 2006 18:20:36 -0800 Subject: Administration Guide modules and getting started In-Reply-To: <20061206001832.31390.qmail@web57915.mail.re3.yahoo.com> References: <20061206001832.31390.qmail@web57915.mail.re3.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <1165371636.24009.165.camel@erato.phig.org> On Tue, 2006-12-05 at 16:18 -0800, Dimitrios Typaldos wrote: > This would be fine. Do I need edit access to subscribe on this? Yes. -- Karsten Wade, RHCE, 108 Editor ^ Fedora Documentation Project Sr. Developer Relations Mgr. | fedoraproject.org/wiki/DocsProject quaid.108.redhat.com | gpg key: AD0E0C41 ////////////////////////////////// \\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\ -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: signature.asc Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 189 bytes Desc: This is a digitally signed message part URL: From kwade at redhat.com Wed Dec 6 02:25:55 2006 From: kwade at redhat.com (Karsten Wade) Date: Tue, 05 Dec 2006 18:25:55 -0800 Subject: Self Introduction: Igor Miletic In-Reply-To: <1165365804.7792.10.camel@LinuxFC6> References: <1165186962.12796.62.camel@LinuxFC6> <1165363434.24009.157.camel@erato.phig.org> <1165365804.7792.10.camel@LinuxFC6> Message-ID: <1165371955.24009.172.camel@erato.phig.org> On Tue, 2006-12-05 at 19:43 -0500, Igor Miletic wrote: > If I have to choose, I would prefer to write on something that helps > beginners, for example people that just switched from Windows or that > just encountered a computer in the first place. > > Desktop User Guide looks like an interesting starting point. > http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Docs/Drafts/DesktopUserGuide We are just about to publish what is there for FC6, and then begin work on the 7 version. However, we can continue to draft updates and even new content for the 6 version; we just need to create Docs/Drafts/6/DesktopuUserGuide as the release branch. Since some of the people who worked on the DUG are now working on other things, there is room for contributions there. We can also begin work on new content that is relevant to the current and next Fedora release. Other content that is useful for new users: http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Docs/Drafts/SoftwareManagementGuide http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Docs/Drafts/Glossary http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Docs/Drafts/CommandLineSurvivalGuide http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Docs/Drafts/GettingStartedGuide The last one is a sort of DUG-light, that is, it should/could include pointers to the other content as well as have an introduction/tour presentation of Fedora. - Karsten -- Karsten Wade, RHCE, 108 Editor ^ Fedora Documentation Project Sr. Developer Relations Mgr. | fedoraproject.org/wiki/DocsProject quaid.108.redhat.com | gpg key: AD0E0C41 ////////////////////////////////// \\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\ -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: signature.asc Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 189 bytes Desc: This is a digitally signed message part URL: From kwade at redhat.com Wed Dec 6 02:51:24 2006 From: kwade at redhat.com (Karsten Wade) Date: Tue, 05 Dec 2006 18:51:24 -0800 Subject: OSDL DTL Tech Board: Documentation Framework (Tue, Oct 17)] In-Reply-To: <4522EC19.9060308@fedoraproject.org> References: <4522EC19.9060308@fedoraproject.org> Message-ID: <1165373485.24009.182.camel@erato.phig.org> I forgot to attend this but I just wrote Waldo Bastion, pointed him at where I see our ideas meshing[1], and invited him to discuss with us what they are planning/doing. [1] http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/DocsProject/WorkFlowIdeas/AdvancingtheProject On Wed, 2006-10-04 at 04:32 +0530, Rahul Sundaram wrote: > Hi > > Might be something of interest here. > > Rahul > email message attachment ([discuss] FW: [dtl_tech_board] OSDL DTL Tech > Board: Documentation Framework (Tue, Oct 17)) > > -------- Forwarded Message -------- > > From: Bastian, Waldo > > To: discuss at en.tldp.org > > Subject: [discuss] FW: [dtl_tech_board] OSDL DTL Tech Board: > > Documentation Framework (Tue, Oct 17) > > Date: Tue, 3 Oct 2006 15:56:04 -0700 > > > -- > fedora-docs-list mailing list > fedora-docs-list at redhat.com > To unsubscribe: > https://www.redhat.com/mailman/listinfo/fedora-docs-list -- Karsten Wade, RHCE, 108 Editor ^ Fedora Documentation Project Sr. Developer Relations Mgr. | fedoraproject.org/wiki/DocsProject quaid.108.redhat.com | gpg key: AD0E0C41 ////////////////////////////////// \\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\ -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: signature.asc Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 189 bytes Desc: This is a digitally signed message part URL: From kwade at redhat.com Wed Dec 6 03:00:03 2006 From: kwade at redhat.com (Karsten Wade) Date: Tue, 05 Dec 2006 19:00:03 -0800 Subject: mid-meeting IRC log of agenda items Message-ID: <1165374003.24009.189.camel@erato.phig.org> This is the discussion section where we covered the agenda for today. I'll post the entire log later. 17:06 < quaid> 17:06 < quaid> and sometimes we start a few minutes lae :) 17:06 < quaid> s/lae/late/ 17:06 * quaid pings some FDSCo folks 17:06 < quaid> stickster_afk, BobJensen 17:07 * EvilBob waves 17:07 < EvilBob> BobJensen 17:09 < quaid> http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/DocsProject/SteeringCommittee/TaskSc \hedule 17:09 < quaid> as something to work against 17:10 < quaid> ok, I can give the DUG status 17:10 < quaid> I'm holding it up as Publication Editor, not for any particular re\ason other than ... 17:10 < quaid> i) how do we signify the real content v. Docs/Drafts/? 17:10 < quaid> ii) I want to do a final read through. 17:11 < quaid> we have a problem of content scattered in many locations 17:11 < quaid> and now we have the Docs/Drafts/ URL itself linked from the splash\ page 17:11 < quaid> which in hindsight was a mistake 17:11 < quaid> we should have done a link to Docs/DesktopUserGuide and done a red\irect to the draft until publish. 17:12 < quaid> but we need a way to signify a "version for the latest FC version"\ and "this is for the next FC version" 17:12 < quaid> Docs/ is the former, Docs/Drafts/ is the latter 17:12 < quaid> so ... 17:12 < quaid> how does it sound to ... 17:12 < quaid> have a big link on Docs/Drafts/DesktopUserGuide that links to the \published version on Docs/ 17:13 < quaid> then let the Drafts/ go back to being a draft for F*7 17:13 < EvilBob> +1 17:16 < quaid> yeah, hadn't articulated that before, but it makes sense now that \I write it out :) 17:17 < vnk_fd> is DUG considered completed? 17:18 < quaid> well, except for my publication edit 17:18 < quaid> we can add to it with FC6 content once live, though 17:18 < quaid> publication edit is me reading every page one last time to normali\ze markup, wordsmith, etc. 17:19 < quaid> I just set that for Thursday this week (07 Dec) 17:19 < quaid> if I don't have time before then, I have some time that afternoon \to work on it. 17:19 < quaid> the meta problem here is that not enough people can fill the "Publ\ication Editor" role 17:19 < quaid> partially because the knowledge to do that role is not updated :7 17:19 < EvilBob> Don't forget we have to also work ont he r-n the end of the week\ also but they should not take much time 17:20 < quaid> ok, I'm not primary on that but I'll back you all up 17:20 < quaid> also, some of you all out there might want to excercise new XML sk\ills for that 17:20 < quaid> oh, I ran past the first agenda item 17:21 < quaid> any objections or discussion about folding f-dsco-l into f-docs-l? 17:21 < vnk_fd> back to the original proposal for a sec? 17:21 < quaid> vnk_fd: go ahead 17:21 < vnk_fd> do we need perhaps two 'draft' areas, then 17:21 * quaid puts the 0 item on hold 17:21 < vnk_fd> one for FC7 17:21 < EvilBob> I would like us to wait 6 months before closing that list, see i\f we can make the list useful, if we can't do that in 6 months fold it up 17:22 < vnk_fd> and the other for incomplete stuff *FC6) 17:23 < quaid> EvilBob: what do you see happening on that list in the meantime? 17:24 < quaid> EvilBob: at least on thing I think is that I should send all FDSCo\ agenda, meeting stuff, etc. to f-docs-l at least in parallel 17:24 < EvilBob> quaid: Goes along with what I mentioned earlier about how we use\ our meetings and lists 17:24 < quaid> EvilBob: is the concern that we bore the regular folks with boring\ business/ 17:24 < quaid> ? 17:24 < quaid> vnk_fd: that is a good question 17:24 < EvilBob> yes 17:25 < quaid> vnk_fd: maybe when we publish, we should do two things: 17:25 < quaid> 1. Copy to Docs/FooGuide 17:25 < quaid> 2. Copy to Docs/Drafts/7/FooGuide 17:25 < quaid> s/7/6/ in this case 17:26 < quaid> EvilBob: so back to the question then, what constitutes boring bus\iness? 17:26 < EvilBob> the list is open for those that are interested we don't prevent \list membership on that list really 17:26 * quaid pays for his opening two agenda items at the same time by handling\ two discussions at the same time. 17:26 < quaid> EvilBob: but what about the obscurity? 17:27 < quaid> that is, I think that most of what is sent to f-dsco-l is of inter\est to f-docs-l 17:27 < EvilBob> quaid: IMO a lot of the tools and tool chain stuff may be boring\ to some 17:27 * quaid is appreciating a chance to knock this idea about, since this is t\he first he is really thinking about it 17:28 < EvilBob> I will let you go back to Item 0, I need to deal with family stu\ff for a few 17:29 < quaid> ok 17:29 < quaid> I'm willing to not decide yet on that item anyway 17:29 < vnk_fd> ok, then quickly 17:29 < vnk_fd> 1. quaid publishes to Docs/FooGuide 17:30 < vnk_fd> 1. writers do Docs/Drafts/rel.ver./FooGuide 17:31 < vnk_fd> that one should have been 2. 17:33 < quaid> well, sure, anyone can do most of those parts 17:33 < quaid> iirc about the ACLs, that is 17:33 < quaid> vnk_fd: sounds fine 17:34 < quaid> so Docs/Drafts == rawhide 17:34 < quaid> Docs/Drafts/rel.ver. == release branch 17:34 < EvilBob> rawhide == development 17:34 < quaid> oh, foo 17:34 < quaid> :) 17:36 < quaid> are we comfie with rel.ver. == a prime number? 17:36 < quaid> rather than include "FC" "FF" "F*" 17:36 < quaid> in the same way we don't have to say Docs/FedoraDesktopUserGuide 17:37 < quaid> because Fedora is in the name fedoraproject.org 17:37 < quaid> ? 17:37 < quaid> s/comfie/comfortable/ 17:37 * quaid is comfie with that, fwiw 17:37 < vnk_fd> simpler, the better 17:37 < EvilBob> yes 17:37 < EvilBob> less redundancy 17:38 < vnk_fd> that's if you're comfie with 6 as prime number :-) 17:38 < EvilBob> releases will still be numbered once it is Fedora Freebase 17:38 < quaid> um, I meant 17:39 < quaid> s/prime/whole/ 17:39 < quaid> :) 17:39 * quaid is obviously an English Lit major and not a Math major 17:39 < quaid> ok, so be it 17:40 < vnk_fd> ok 17:43 < EvilBob> OK is item 0 covered? 17:43 < vnk_fd> yes 17:44 -!- mspevack_afk [n=mspevack at fedora/mspevack] has quit ["Leaving"] 17:44 < quaid> and item 1 17:44 < EvilBob> quaid: for the record i would like to paste some of my ideas fro\m our earlier brainstorm 17:45 < quaid> go ahead 17:45 < quaid> what subject? 17:46 < EvilBob> if FDSCo could use it's mailing list more the "business" meeting\ could be 15-30 minutes and then we shift gears to work with everyone brainstormi\ng, one on one colab, groups working on training or what ever is needed it would \make the FDSCo meeting less important because we talk on list, it would also be m\ore inclusive for the FDSCo members that are in other time zones would also make \docs in general more inclusive because we can 17:46 < EvilBob> take what we work on in the "free time" of the meetings to the \general docs list also 17:47 < EvilBob> Meeting format idea and how it relates to us having two mailing \lists 17:47 < quaid> ok 17:48 < quaid> to do that people would actually have to respond and solve busines\s on list 17:48 * quaid looks at the agenda 17:48 < quaid> I can see stuff that would be best to discuss on list 17:49 < quaid> but it seems like its worth keeping on f-docs-l 17:49 < quaid> EvilBob: what constitutes business then? 17:50 < EvilBob> I have not figured that out yet... LOL 17:50 < quaid> heh 17:50 < EvilBob> Tools and Tool chain, can be a bit geeky to non-programmer types\ for one 17:50 < quaid> well, i do think more on-list discussion would save us on some sub\jects 17:51 < quaid> hmm 17:51 < quaid> that would beg a separate tools list, not to push that content to \fdsco list 17:51 < quaid> even then, hmmm 17:51 < EvilBob> I agree, I would think that we start by pushing to fdsco-list an\d then if right we move out to docs-list 17:52 < quaid> but the toolchain is not a steering committee exclusive subject 17:52 < EvilBob> some of the development stuff that we talkabout as fdsco may not\ be of interest to our writers 17:52 < quaid> also, one of our goals is the production of a toolchain, so we nee\d one location that everyone can get updates about it from. 17:52 < quaid> it is coincidental that most of the toolchain folks are on FDSCo 17:53 < quaid> but not exclusive 17:53 < EvilBob> Yes I agree 17:53 < quaid> tsekine and glezos for example have contributed to the discussion,\ on f-docs-l 17:53 < quaid> patches, etc. 17:53 < EvilBob> open the list up so those that are interested in teh development\ of our tools and tool chain can join 17:53 < quaid> well, I think I'd first want to hear from the general list that to\ols needs a separate discussion area 17:53 < EvilBob> +1 17:54 < EvilBob> would be a "refocusing" of the fdsco list IMO 17:54 < quaid> well, not really 17:54 < EvilBob> rather than kill that list and start another 17:55 < quaid> I don't agree with pushing tools to that list, personally 17:55 < quaid> it's more confusing 17:55 < quaid> my instinct is to fold into one list and handle it all there 17:55 < quaid> that the more we spread, the more we lose 17:55 < EvilBob> as long as most of our contributors are OK with that I will be a\lso 17:56 < quaid> can you ask the question on list? just the general "move tools or\ leave here" question, not where. 17:56 * quaid doesn't want to overstay his posting for the week 17:56 < EvilBob> Sure i will ask tonight 17:57 < EvilBob> Item 1 closed IMO 17:57 < EvilBob> address again next week based on list input 17:58 < quaid> sure 17:59 < quaid> ok, we've got megacoder and eitch MIA with a couple of important p\rojects on them 17:59 < quaid> so I'll send email directly to find out what their status us 17:59 * quaid has been updating http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/DocsProject/Steeri \ngCommittee/TaskSchedule as we're going along 17:59 < quaid> next we can address from there with present company is the relnote\s update 17:59 < quaid> EvilBob: anything we need to think about there? 18:00 < EvilBob> on the subject of open projects, we have a large number of items\ on our taskSchedule that are quite old and should ether be handed off or flat ou\ t killed 18:01 < EvilBob> in the stalled section 18:01 < quaid> stalled == bad press? 18:01 < EvilBob> Evaluate and integrate RPM Guide into Building Packages Guide as\ an example 18:02 < quaid> well, we can work on that as part of the working meeting 18:02 < EvilBob> tht item was drafted by ignacio and he is completely MIA, what d\o we do with that draft? 18:03 < EvilBob> he does not answer emails or phone calls, no response by postal \mail either 18:04 < EvilBob> I was just wondering if we had a policy on orphaned drafts/docs/\contributions 18:04 < quaid> we don't yet 18:04 < quaid> we could move them to an orphan section of some kind, but we don't\ want them to disappear 18:06 < EvilBob> there is at least one item on there (stalled section) that I kno\w I cold out the guys from the unity project to work on 18:06 * quaid finished his edits to http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/DocsProject/St \eeringCommittee/TaskSchedule 18:06 < EvilBob> s/cold/could 18:06 < quaid> that is, the updates for the day are done there 18:06 < quaid> one second, let me formally wrap up the business 18:06 < EvilBob> sure 18:07 < quaid> I want to move the FLOSS docs summit back to the list for discussi\on, John and I have proposed two related directions, and that's where it sits 18:07 < quaid> maybe this is all in his and my mind, I dunno :) 18:07 < EvilBob> are you editing that page? 18:08 < EvilBob> If so can you please fix my WikiName on the release notes item 18:08 < EvilBob> BobJensen 18:09 < quaid> ok 18:10 < quaid> done 18:10 < EvilBob> thanks 18:12 < BobJensen> Where are we with the moin update and plone testing/migration? 18:13 < quaid> ok, that was all the agenda items 18:13 < quaid> we can go back to discussing stale stuff 18:13 < quaid> oh, sorry 18:13 < quaid> you are right, there are those items 18:14 < BobJensen> who are the contacts for those items and how much do we pick a\t the scabs? 18:14 < BobJensen> LOL 18:16 < quaid> ok, on Moin for the docbook and 1.6 stuff 18:16 < quaid> we need someone to help with the Python in Moin Moin and most like\ly be the maintainer 18:16 < quaid> of that code 18:16 < quaid> for us and for Moin Moin 18:17 < quaid> hmm 18:17 < BobJensen> OK so we need a "help wanted" page on the wiki see if we can't\ get a snake charmer 18:17 < quaid> I posted to f-infrastructure-; 18:17 < BobJensen> OK 18:17 < quaid> nneed to do the same to f-websites-l 18:17 < quaid> and maybe ask whoever packages it for Fedora 18:18 < quaid> ok, I split the tasks out on the task schedule 18:18 < quaid> the 1.5.6 upgrade is happening already, see the list for testing r\equest 18:18 < BobJensen> I am going to put an open request out on the Fedora Unity site\s for a python developer for some stuff we need done there, maybe we can find som\e one to come over to docs to help also 18:19 < quaid> cool 18:19 < quaid> I posted to f-websites-l 18:20 < quaid> we'll see if that helps, and I'll try to find the packager from FE 18:20 * quaid doesn't know how to do that 18:20 < BobJensen> I can track that down easy enough, should be on the owners lis\t 18:21 < BobJensen> When I get the maintainers name I will pass the contact info o\n to you if you don't find it first 18:23 < quaid> ok, thx 18:23 < BobJensen> http://cvs.fedora.redhat.com/viewcvs/owners/owners.list?root=e \xtras&view=markup 18:24 < BobJensen> It is Thias from FreshRPMs matthias at rpmforge.net 18:26 < quaid> ah, ok 18:26 < quaid> he probably doesn't want to help with the Python, but we'll ask :) 18:26 < quaid> hmmm 18:26 * quaid ponders filing all this as a bug request :) 18:27 < BobJensen> BZ is many time the best way to reach him I am told 18:28 < quaid> ok, I'll try that 18:29 < BobJensen> Jon "daMaestro" Steffan is the lead packager for Zope and Plon\e now, He got a python work out over the last week on another project with me 18:30 < BobJensen> s/packager/packager for Extras 18:31 < BobJensen> I had not looked at my Docs email I now see the email from pau\lo about the test 18:34 < BobJensen> quaid: need to take a little break here and put the kids to be\d, will see you in a few 18:34 < quaid> ok, bug filed 18:34 < quaid> ok 18:35 * quaid works on more stuff -- Karsten Wade, RHCE, 108 Editor ^ Fedora Documentation Project Sr. Developer Relations Mgr. | fedoraproject.org/wiki/DocsProject quaid.108.redhat.com | gpg key: AD0E0C41 ////////////////////////////////// \\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\ -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: signature.asc Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 189 bytes Desc: This is a digitally signed message part URL: From grejigl-gnomeprevod at yahoo.ca Wed Dec 6 03:12:00 2006 From: grejigl-gnomeprevod at yahoo.ca (Igor Miletic) Date: Tue, 05 Dec 2006 22:12:00 -0500 Subject: Self Introduction: Igor Miletic In-Reply-To: <1165371955.24009.172.camel@erato.phig.org> References: <1165186962.12796.62.camel@LinuxFC6> <1165363434.24009.157.camel@erato.phig.org> <1165365804.7792.10.camel@LinuxFC6> <1165371955.24009.172.camel@erato.phig.org> Message-ID: <1165374720.7792.14.camel@LinuxFC6> ? ???, 05. 12 2006. ? 18:25 -0800, Karsten Wade ????: > http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Docs/Drafts/SoftwareManagementGuide > http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Docs/Drafts/Glossary > http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Docs/Drafts/CommandLineSurvivalGuide > http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Docs/Drafts/GettingStartedGuide > > The last one is a sort of DUG-light, that is, it should/could include > pointers to the other content as well as have an introduction/tour > presentation of Fedora. > Ok, how about Software Management Guide? Original writers did a very good job, and even left notes on what is left to do. Igor -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: signature.asc Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 189 bytes Desc: ??? ?? ??? ?????? ?? ?????????? ???????? URL: From kwade at redhat.com Wed Dec 6 03:53:00 2006 From: kwade at redhat.com (Karsten Wade) Date: Tue, 05 Dec 2006 19:53:00 -0800 Subject: irc log FDSCo/FDP meeting 05-Dec-2006 Message-ID: <1165377180.24009.193.camel@erato.phig.org> Here is the entire meeting log. 17:06 < quaid> 17:06 < quaid> and sometimes we start a few minutes lae :) 17:06 < quaid> s/lae/late/ 17:06 * quaid pings some FDSCo folks 17:06 < quaid> stickster_afk, BobJensen 17:07 * EvilBob waves 17:07 < EvilBob> BobJensen 17:09 < quaid> http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/DocsProject/SteeringCommittee/TaskSc \hedule 17:09 < quaid> as something to work against 17:10 < quaid> ok, I can give the DUG status 17:10 < quaid> I'm holding it up as Publication Editor, not for any particular re\ason other than ... 17:10 < quaid> i) how do we signify the real content v. Docs/Drafts/? 17:10 < quaid> ii) I want to do a final read through. 17:11 < quaid> we have a problem of content scattered in many locations 17:11 < quaid> and now we have the Docs/Drafts/ URL itself linked from the splash\ page 17:11 < quaid> which in hindsight was a mistake 17:11 < quaid> we should have done a link to Docs/DesktopUserGuide and done a red\irect to the draft until publish. 17:12 < quaid> but we need a way to signify a "version for the latest FC version"\ and "this is for the next FC version" 17:12 < quaid> Docs/ is the former, Docs/Drafts/ is the latter 17:12 < quaid> so ... 17:12 < quaid> how does it sound to ... 17:12 < quaid> have a big link on Docs/Drafts/DesktopUserGuide that links to the \published version on Docs/ 17:13 < quaid> then let the Drafts/ go back to being a draft for F*7 17:13 < EvilBob> +1 17:16 < quaid> yeah, hadn't articulated that before, but it makes sense now that \I write it out :) 17:17 < vnk_fd> is DUG considered completed? 17:18 < quaid> well, except for my publication edit 17:18 < quaid> we can add to it with FC6 content once live, though 17:18 < quaid> publication edit is me reading every page one last time to normali\ze markup, wordsmith, etc. 17:19 < quaid> I just set that for Thursday this week (07 Dec) 17:19 < quaid> if I don't have time before then, I have some time that afternoon \to work on it. 17:19 < quaid> the meta problem here is that not enough people can fill the "Publ\ication Editor" role 17:19 < quaid> partially because the knowledge to do that role is not updated :7 17:19 < EvilBob> Don't forget we have to also work ont he r-n the end of the week\ also but they should not take much time 17:20 < quaid> ok, I'm not primary on that but I'll back you all up 17:20 < quaid> also, some of you all out there might want to excercise new XML sk\ills for that 17:20 < quaid> oh, I ran past the first agenda item 17:21 < quaid> any objections or discussion about folding f-dsco-l into f-docs-l? 17:21 < vnk_fd> back to the original proposal for a sec? 17:21 < quaid> vnk_fd: go ahead 17:21 < vnk_fd> do we need perhaps two 'draft' areas, then 17:21 * quaid puts the 0 item on hold 17:21 < vnk_fd> one for FC7 17:21 < EvilBob> I would like us to wait 6 months before closing that list, see i\f we can make the list useful, if we can't do that in 6 months fold it up 17:22 < vnk_fd> and the other for incomplete stuff *FC6) 17:23 < quaid> EvilBob: what do you see happening on that list in the meantime? 17:24 < quaid> EvilBob: at least on thing I think is that I should send all FDSCo\ agenda, meeting stuff, etc. to f-docs-l at least in parallel 17:24 < EvilBob> quaid: Goes along with what I mentioned earlier about how we use\ our meetings and lists 17:24 < quaid> EvilBob: is the concern that we bore the regular folks with boring\ business/ 17:24 < quaid> ? 17:24 < quaid> vnk_fd: that is a good question 17:24 < EvilBob> yes 17:25 < quaid> vnk_fd: maybe when we publish, we should do two things: 17:25 < quaid> 1. Copy to Docs/FooGuide 17:25 < quaid> 2. Copy to Docs/Drafts/7/FooGuide 17:25 < quaid> s/7/6/ in this case 17:26 < quaid> EvilBob: so back to the question then, what constitutes boring bus\iness? 17:26 < EvilBob> the list is open for those that are interested we don't prevent \list membership on that list really 17:26 * quaid pays for his opening two agenda items at the same time by handling\ two discussions at the same time. 17:26 < quaid> EvilBob: but what about the obscurity? 17:27 < quaid> that is, I think that most of what is sent to f-dsco-l is of inter\est to f-docs-l 17:27 < EvilBob> quaid: IMO a lot of the tools and tool chain stuff may be boring\ to some 17:27 * quaid is appreciating a chance to knock this idea about, since this is t\he first he is really thinking about it 17:28 < EvilBob> I will let you go back to Item 0, I need to deal with family stu\ff for a few 17:29 < quaid> ok 17:29 < quaid> I'm willing to not decide yet on that item anyway 17:29 < vnk_fd> ok, then quickly 17:29 < vnk_fd> 1. quaid publishes to Docs/FooGuide 17:30 < vnk_fd> 1. writers do Docs/Drafts/rel.ver./FooGuide 17:31 < vnk_fd> that one should have been 2. 17:33 < quaid> well, sure, anyone can do most of those parts 17:33 < quaid> iirc about the ACLs, that is 17:33 < quaid> vnk_fd: sounds fine 17:34 < quaid> so Docs/Drafts == rawhide 17:34 < quaid> Docs/Drafts/rel.ver. == release branch 17:34 < EvilBob> rawhide == development 17:34 < quaid> oh, foo 17:34 < quaid> :) 17:36 < quaid> are we comfie with rel.ver. == a prime number? 17:36 < quaid> rather than include "FC" "FF" "F*" 17:36 < quaid> in the same way we don't have to say Docs/FedoraDesktopUserGuide 17:37 < quaid> because Fedora is in the name fedoraproject.org 17:37 < quaid> ? 17:37 < quaid> s/comfie/comfortable/ 17:37 * quaid is comfie with that, fwiw 17:37 < vnk_fd> simpler, the better 17:37 < EvilBob> yes 17:37 < EvilBob> less redundancy 17:38 < vnk_fd> that's if you're comfie with 6 as prime number :-) 17:38 < EvilBob> releases will still be numbered once it is Fedora Freebase 17:38 < quaid> um, I meant 17:39 < quaid> s/prime/whole/ 17:39 < quaid> :) 17:39 * quaid is obviously an English Lit major and not a Math major 17:39 < quaid> ok, so be it 17:40 < vnk_fd> ok 17:43 < EvilBob> OK is item 0 covered? 17:43 < vnk_fd> yes 17:44 -!- mspevack_afk [n=mspevack at fedora/mspevack] has quit ["Leaving"] 17:44 < quaid> and item 1 17:44 < EvilBob> quaid: for the record i would like to paste some of my ideas fro\m our earlier brainstorm 17:45 < quaid> go ahead 17:45 < quaid> what subject? 17:46 < EvilBob> if FDSCo could use it's mailing list more the "business" meeting\ could be 15-30 minutes and then we shift gears to work with everyone brainstormi\ng, one on one colab, groups working on training or what ever is needed it would \make the FDSCo meeting less important because we talk on list, it would also be m\ore inclusive for the FDSCo members that are in other time zones would also make \docs in general more inclusive because we can 17:46 < EvilBob> take what we work on in the "free time" of the meetings to the \general docs list also 17:47 < EvilBob> Meeting format idea and how it relates to us having two mailing \lists 17:47 < quaid> ok 17:48 < quaid> to do that people would actually have to respond and solve busines\s on list 17:48 * quaid looks at the agenda 17:48 < quaid> I can see stuff that would be best to discuss on list 17:49 < quaid> but it seems like its worth keeping on f-docs-l 17:49 < quaid> EvilBob: what constitutes business then? 17:50 < EvilBob> I have not figured that out yet... LOL 17:50 < quaid> heh 17:50 < EvilBob> Tools and Tool chain, can be a bit geeky to non-programmer types\ for one 17:50 < quaid> well, i do think more on-list discussion would save us on some sub\jects 17:51 < quaid> hmm 17:51 < quaid> that would beg a separate tools list, not to push that content to \fdsco list 17:51 < quaid> even then, hmmm 17:51 < EvilBob> I agree, I would think that we start by pushing to fdsco-list an\d then if right we move out to docs-list 17:52 < quaid> but the toolchain is not a steering committee exclusive subject 17:52 < EvilBob> some of the development stuff that we talkabout as fdsco may not\ be of interest to our writers 17:52 < quaid> also, one of our goals is the production of a toolchain, so we nee\d one location that everyone can get updates about it from. 17:52 < quaid> it is coincidental that most of the toolchain folks are on FDSCo 17:53 < quaid> but not exclusive 17:53 < EvilBob> Yes I agree 17:53 < quaid> tsekine and glezos for example have contributed to the discussion,\ on f-docs-l 17:53 < quaid> patches, etc. 17:53 < EvilBob> open the list up so those that are interested in teh development\ of our tools and tool chain can join 17:53 < quaid> well, I think I'd first want to hear from the general list that to\ols needs a separate discussion area 17:53 < EvilBob> +1 17:54 < EvilBob> would be a "refocusing" of the fdsco list IMO 17:54 < quaid> well, not really 17:54 < EvilBob> rather than kill that list and start another 17:55 < quaid> I don't agree with pushing tools to that list, personally 17:55 < quaid> it's more confusing 17:55 < quaid> my instinct is to fold into one list and handle it all there 17:55 < quaid> that the more we spread, the more we lose 17:55 < EvilBob> as long as most of our contributors are OK with that I will be a\lso 17:56 < quaid> can you ask the question on list? just the general "move tools or\ leave here" question, not where. 17:56 * quaid doesn't want to overstay his posting for the week 17:56 < EvilBob> Sure i will ask tonight 17:57 < EvilBob> Item 1 closed IMO 17:57 < EvilBob> address again next week based on list input 17:58 < quaid> sure 17:59 < quaid> ok, we've got megacoder and eitch MIA with a couple of important p\rojects on them 17:59 < quaid> so I'll send email directly to find out what their status us 17:59 * quaid has been updating http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/DocsProject/Steeri \ngCommittee/TaskSchedule as we're going along 17:59 < quaid> next we can address from there with present company is the relnote\s update 17:59 < quaid> EvilBob: anything we need to think about there? 18:00 < EvilBob> on the subject of open projects, we have a large number of items\ on our taskSchedule that are quite old and should ether be handed off or flat ou\ t killed 18:01 < EvilBob> in the stalled section 18:01 < quaid> stalled == bad press? 18:01 < EvilBob> Evaluate and integrate RPM Guide into Building Packages Guide as\ an example 18:02 < quaid> well, we can work on that as part of the working meeting 18:02 < EvilBob> tht item was drafted by ignacio and he is completely MIA, what d\o we do with that draft? 18:03 < EvilBob> he does not answer emails or phone calls, no response by postal \mail either 18:04 < EvilBob> I was just wondering if we had a policy on orphaned drafts/docs/\contributions 18:04 < quaid> we don't yet 18:04 < quaid> we could move them to an orphan section of some kind, but we don't\ want them to disappear 18:06 < EvilBob> there is at least one item on there (stalled section) that I kno\w I cold out the guys from the unity project to work on 18:06 * quaid finished his edits to http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/DocsProject/St \eeringCommittee/TaskSchedule 18:06 < EvilBob> s/cold/could 18:06 < quaid> that is, the updates for the day are done there 18:06 < quaid> one second, let me formally wrap up the business 18:06 < EvilBob> sure 18:07 < quaid> I want to move the FLOSS docs summit back to the list for discussi\on, John and I have proposed two related directions, and that's where it sits 18:07 < quaid> maybe this is all in his and my mind, I dunno :) 18:07 < EvilBob> are you editing that page? 18:08 < EvilBob> If so can you please fix my WikiName on the release notes item 18:08 < EvilBob> BobJensen 18:09 < quaid> ok 18:10 < quaid> done 18:10 < EvilBob> thanks 18:12 < BobJensen> Where are we with the moin update and plone testing/migration? 18:13 < quaid> ok, that was all the agenda items 18:13 < quaid> we can go back to discussing stale stuff 18:13 < quaid> oh, sorry 18:13 < quaid> you are right, there are those items 18:14 < BobJensen> who are the contacts for those items and how much do we pick a\t the scabs? 18:14 < BobJensen> LOL 18:16 < quaid> ok, on Moin for the docbook and 1.6 stuff 18:16 < quaid> we need someone to help with the Python in Moin Moin and most like\ly be the maintainer 18:16 < quaid> of that code 18:16 < quaid> for us and for Moin Moin 18:17 < quaid> hmm 18:17 < BobJensen> OK so we need a "help wanted" page on the wiki see if we can't\ get a snake charmer 18:17 < quaid> I posted to f-infrastructure-; 18:17 < BobJensen> OK 18:17 < quaid> nneed to do the same to f-websites-l 18:17 < quaid> and maybe ask whoever packages it for Fedora 18:18 < quaid> ok, I split the tasks out on the task schedule 18:18 < quaid> the 1.5.6 upgrade is happening already, see the list for testing r\equest 18:18 < BobJensen> I am going to put an open request out on the Fedora Unity site\s for a python developer for some stuff we need done there, maybe we can find som\e one to come over to docs to help also 18:19 < quaid> cool 18:19 < quaid> I posted to f-websites-l 18:20 < quaid> we'll see if that helps, and I'll try to find the packager from FE 18:20 * quaid doesn't know how to do that 18:20 < BobJensen> I can track that down easy enough, should be on the owners lis\t 18:21 < BobJensen> When I get the maintainers name I will pass the contact info o\n to you if you don't find it first 18:23 < quaid> ok, thx 18:23 < BobJensen> http://cvs.fedora.redhat.com/viewcvs/owners/owners.list?root=e \xtras&view=markup 18:24 < BobJensen> It is Thias from FreshRPMs matthias at rpmforge.net 18:26 < quaid> ah, ok 18:26 < quaid> he probably doesn't want to help with the Python, but we'll ask :) 18:26 < quaid> hmmm 18:26 * quaid ponders filing all this as a bug request :) 18:27 < BobJensen> BZ is many time the best way to reach him I am told 18:28 < quaid> ok, I'll try that 18:29 < BobJensen> Jon "daMaestro" Steffan is the lead packager for Zope and Plon\e now, He got a python work out over the last week on another project with me 18:30 < BobJensen> s/packager/packager for Extras 18:31 < BobJensen> I had not looked at my Docs email I now see the email from pau\lo about the test 18:34 < BobJensen> quaid: need to take a little break here and put the kids to be\d, will see you in a few 18:34 < quaid> ok, bug filed 18:34 < quaid> ok 18:35 * quaid works on more stuff 18:42 < cdehaan> Meeting closed or still running? 18:43 -!- cdehaan [n=Cody at dynamic-addr-88-162.resnet.rochester.edu] has quit [] 18:44 -!- jmbuser [n=jmbuser at 195.229.25.134] has joined #fedora-docs 18:44 < jmbuser> Good morning! 18:44 < quaid> jmbuser: good morning 18:45 < quaid> see, one reason to hang out, jmbuser eventually wakes up 18:45 < jmbuser> Yawwwwn (tired, not bored) 18:47 < jmbuser> Did I miss anything? :-) 18:52 < quaid> well 18:52 -!- cdehaan [n=cdehaan at dynamic-addr-88-167.resnet.rochester.edu] has joined\ #fedora-docs 18:52 < quaid> the business stuff was discussed :) 18:52 < quaid> cdehaan: we are done with the agenda and are just in 'working meet\ing' mode 18:52 < cdehaan> OK 18:54 < jmbuser> Very good 18:56 < jmbuser> mether: The customizing yum section is developing nicely. 19:00 < quaid> aye 19:00 < quaid> mether is great for a well organized brain dump of good stuff :) 19:03 < jmbuser> quaid: As is your Docs Projects Workflow - I see I already have \violated the wiki editing process 19:04 < quaid> uh, oh 19:04 < quaid> jmbuser: what did you do ? :) 19:05 < quaid> jmbuser: we just made that up an hour or so ago, so it is adaptive\ v. set in stone 19:05 -!- cdehaan [n=cdehaan at dynamic-addr-88-167.resnet.rochester.edu] has quit [\Remote closed the connection] 19:06 < jmbuser> quaid:Is this a old process (in which I plead ignorance of the l\aw - I want a lawyer) or a new one (better to seek forgiveness than ask permissio\n)? 19:06 < jmbuser> quaid: Ok 19:06 * quaid thinks his previous line crossed jmbuser in the ether 19:06 < quaid> yeah :) 19:06 < quaid> jmbuser: tell me what you did differently? I forget ... 19:07 < jmbuser> quaid: No, it was too good to waste 19:08 < jmbuser> I took the Work Flow Ideas, copied it to my sandbox, chopped it \up and moved it back to the docsproject area as "ready to publish". 19:12 < quaid> oh, interesting 19:13 < quaid> I consider that to be different 19:13 < quaid> that is project documentation 19:13 < quaid> which is different from "Fedora documentation for end-users" 19:13 < quaid> the latter goes in Docs/ and Docs/Drafts 19:13 < quaid> the former in DocsProject/ 19:14 < quaid> and you are right, what you did is a 100% legit workflow for i) ne\w ideas and ii) new project content 19:14 < jmbuser> quaid:That's good 19:15 -!- cdehaan [n=cdehaan at dynamic-addr-88-167.resnet.rochester.edu] has joined\ #fedora-docs 19:15 -!- cdehaan [n=cdehaan at dynamic-addr-88-167.resnet.rochester.edu] has left #\fedora-docs ["Ex-Chat"] 19:15 -!- cdehaan [n=cdehaan at dynamic-addr-88-167.resnet.rochester.edu] has joined\ #fedora-docs 19:20 * vnk_fd must go, battery dying 19:21 -!- vnk_fd [n=vnk at 202-74-202-139.static.woosh.co.nz] has quit ["Leaving"] 19:26 -!- megacoder [n=MegaCode at c-71-231-222-164.hsd1.or.comcast.net] has joined \#fedora-docs 19:29 < quaid> megacoder: howdy 19:29 < megacoder> who are you ;-? 19:29 < megacoder> hi; long time no C 19:30 < quaid> how are you? 19:31 -!- cdehaan [n=cdehaan at dynamic-addr-88-167.resnet.rochester.edu] has quit [\Remote closed the connection] 19:32 < megacoder> Well enough; I've been buried deep in the bowels of Boeing fro\m can til can't. 19:32 < megacoder> That's OK, nobody calls a consultant when things are rosy. 19:32 < quaid> ye ha! 19:34 < quaid> megacoder: I was actually going to summon you to find out if you h\ave made or are going to be able to make progress on ... 19:34 < megacoder> no, and no. I'm just snowed and have very little available ti\me. 19:35 < quaid> ok coolio 19:35 < megacoder> I've missed the goings on and am skipping supper to drop by. 19:36 < megacoder> Of course, at 23 stone, that's not _that_ much of a sacrifice.\.. 19:37 < quaid> :D 19:37 < quaid> well, don't starve much for us 19:38 < quaid> I really should do minutes for these meetings, but I often forget 19:38 < megacoder> np, I sometimes fast for hours 19:39 < megacoder> I was gonna try to sit in on stickster's XML tutorial on Satur\day, for moral support 19:40 < jmbuser> quaid:Yes, please do minutes or post the irc - have you ever use\d irc2html? 19:42 < quaid> nope 19:44 < quaid> jmbuser: i always post the IRC, but it is nice for others to do a \summary or minutes, but I'm not always that nice 19:44 < jmbuser> quaid: It's a perl script that "pretty prints" chat logs and con\verts it to html - as the name implies - and the license is 19:45 < jmbuser> quaid:copyrighted, but free use with attribution 19:48 * quaid just pastes the plain text, since he doesn't send HTML email anywa\y 19:49 < jmbuser> quaid:I volunteer to do meeting minutes, but it's better if I wa\s actually able to attend the meeting. 19:49 < quaid> jmbuser: :) 19:49 < quaid> jmbuser: we're still struggling with what is going to be a good ti\me 19:50 < jmbuser> quaid: One of the challenges of a global community - time zones \and sleep cycles 19:50 < quaid> I'm going to close now and send a final IRC log, since I need to p\ut some moppets to bed 19:50 < quaid> jmbuser: word 19:51 < jmbuser> Signing off to go to work 19:51 < quaid> we will probably move to a rotating schedule of some kind, so at\ least we are kind in revolution 19:51 < quaid> -- Karsten Wade, RHCE, 108 Editor ^ Fedora Documentation Project Sr. Developer Relations Mgr. | fedoraproject.org/wiki/DocsProject quaid.108.redhat.com | gpg key: AD0E0C41 ////////////////////////////////// \\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\ -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: signature.asc Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 189 bytes Desc: This is a digitally signed message part URL: From vnk at mkc.co.nz Wed Dec 6 08:15:01 2006 From: vnk at mkc.co.nz (Vladimir Kosovac) Date: Wed, 06 Dec 2006 21:15:01 +1300 Subject: Few questions about the Admin Gude Message-ID: <45767C05.6030009@mkc.co.nz> Hi people. I am about to start writing draft for Users/Accounts module of the guide. Can anybody confirm whether I'm on the right track if module is structured as per below: 1] Intro - A bit about the general stuff (multi-user system, root vs unprivileged accounts, etc.) - Explanation of relevant files in /etc - What happens in the background when adding/modifying users/groups 2] Managing users/groups using system-config-users 3] " using command line utilities 4] Password policies 5] Additional documentation Does anything else needs covering? Thanks, V -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: signature.asc Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 251 bytes Desc: OpenPGP digital signature URL: From stickster at gmail.com Wed Dec 6 14:32:32 2006 From: stickster at gmail.com (Paul W. Frields) Date: Wed, 06 Dec 2006 09:32:32 -0500 Subject: Administration Guide modules and getting started In-Reply-To: <4575C472.3020204@glossolalie.org> References: <21357724.2098171165311564163.JavaMail.servlet@kundenserver> <1165328919.5571.41.camel@localhost.localdomain> <4575C472.3020204@glossolalie.org> Message-ID: <1165415552.12496.26.camel@localhost.localdomain> On Tue, 2006-12-05 at 19:11 +0000, Thierry Sayegh De Bellis wrote: > -----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- > Hash: SHA1 > > Paul W. Frields wrote: > no luck with editing > > > > I see you in the cla_done group, but I need to know your WikiName and > > then I can add you to the EditGroup. > > > > > ThierrySayeghDeBellis :) I see you there now, so someone must have taken care of this. Happy editing! -- Paul W. Frields, RHCE http://paul.frields.org/ gpg fingerprint: 3DA6 A0AC 6D58 FEC4 0233 5906 ACDB C937 BD11 3717 Fedora Project Board: http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Board Fedora Docs Project: http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/DocsProject -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: signature.asc Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 189 bytes Desc: This is a digitally signed message part URL: From kwade at redhat.com Wed Dec 6 15:55:24 2006 From: kwade at redhat.com (Karsten Wade) Date: Wed, 06 Dec 2006 07:55:24 -0800 Subject: Self Introduction: Igor Miletic In-Reply-To: <1165374720.7792.14.camel@LinuxFC6> References: <1165186962.12796.62.camel@LinuxFC6> <1165363434.24009.157.camel@erato.phig.org> <1165365804.7792.10.camel@LinuxFC6> <1165371955.24009.172.camel@erato.phig.org> <1165374720.7792.14.camel@LinuxFC6> Message-ID: <1165420524.24009.201.camel@erato.phig.org> On Tue, 2006-12-05 at 22:12 -0500, Igor Miletic wrote: > ? ???, 05. 12 2006. ? 18:25 -0800, Karsten Wade ????: > > > http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Docs/Drafts/SoftwareManagementGuide > > http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Docs/Drafts/Glossary > > http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Docs/Drafts/CommandLineSurvivalGuide > > http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Docs/Drafts/GettingStartedGuide > > > > The last one is a sort of DUG-light, that is, it should/could include > > pointers to the other content as well as have an introduction/tour > > presentation of Fedora. > > > > Ok, how about Software Management Guide? Original writers did a very > good job, and even left notes on what is left to do. We should follow the modular style being used for the Fedora Administration Guide now. So, as a first interesting exercise, can you create/update a page like this one for the Docs/Drafts/SoftwareManagementGuide: http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Docs/Drafts/AdministrationGuide/Contributors The basic idea is to have a table with each chapter (module) in its own row. Then you can pick one or a few chapters to begin work on, putting yourself down as the '''Contributor'''. John most likely wants to continue working on the FSMG, and you can see what other writers are interested. - Karsten -- Karsten Wade, RHCE, 108 Editor ^ Fedora Documentation Project Sr. Developer Relations Mgr. | fedoraproject.org/wiki/DocsProject quaid.108.redhat.com | gpg key: AD0E0C41 ////////////////////////////////// \\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\ -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: signature.asc Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 189 bytes Desc: This is a digitally signed message part URL: From grejigl-gnomeprevod at yahoo.ca Wed Dec 6 18:15:09 2006 From: grejigl-gnomeprevod at yahoo.ca (Igor Miletic) Date: Wed, 06 Dec 2006 13:15:09 -0500 Subject: Self Introduction: Igor Miletic In-Reply-To: <1165420524.24009.201.camel@erato.phig.org> References: <1165186962.12796.62.camel@LinuxFC6> <1165363434.24009.157.camel@erato.phig.org> <1165365804.7792.10.camel@LinuxFC6> <1165371955.24009.172.camel@erato.phig.org> <1165374720.7792.14.camel@LinuxFC6> <1165420524.24009.201.camel@erato.phig.org> Message-ID: <1165428909.7395.4.camel@LinuxFC6> ? ???, 06. 12 2006. ? 07:55 -0800, Karsten Wade ????: > We should follow the modular style being used for the Fedora > Administration Guide now. So, as a first interesting exercise, can you > create/update a page like this one for the > Docs/Drafts/SoftwareManagementGuide: > > http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Docs/Drafts/AdministrationGuide/Contributors > > The basic idea is to have a table with each chapter (module) in its own > row. Then you can pick one or a few chapters to begin work on, putting > yourself down as the '''Contributor'''. > > John most likely wants to continue working on the FSMG, and you can see > what other writers are interested. I created the draft page here: http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Docs/Drafts/SoftwareManagementGuide/Contributors For now all links point to existing pages. I put myself for the Managing Software section, it seems to cover the yum part well, maybe I should add the pirut part with an example and possibly yumex part as well (i.e. show how to install it through pirut and then show how to use it)? Also, any other ideas are welcome too. Igor -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: signature.asc Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 189 bytes Desc: ??? ?? ??? ?????? ?? ?????????? ???????? URL: From kwade at redhat.com Wed Dec 6 21:03:49 2006 From: kwade at redhat.com (Karsten Wade) Date: Wed, 06 Dec 2006 13:03:49 -0800 Subject: just Fedora [RFC] Message-ID: <1165439029.24009.244.camel@erato.phig.org> Based on conversations on fedora-advisory-board and the state of the future, I propose we start using the word "Fedora" in all our documentation to refer to: * The distribution itself * The set of packages * The project For the project case, I think a good style is this: "For the first instance of referring to the formal project, use 'Fedora Project' to set the context, then use 'Fedora' afterward to refer back to the project. If writing about both the project and the distribution, use 'Fedora Project' in all cases, referring to the distribution as 'Fedora'." We definitely want to stop using 'Fedora Core' for documentation in the future. Although we still need to identify the difference between 'Core' and 'Extras' in FC6 documentation, we can start to use 'Fedora' in place of 'Fedora Core' now to save us the work of changing it later. When things are settled around "The server version of Fedora is called Fedora Foo, and the desktop live-CD is called Fedora Bar," then we'll use those terms. However, since the different flavors do not exist yet, we don't need to start worrying about them. :) - Karsten, who hates search and replace in the Wiki -- Karsten Wade, RHCE, 108 Editor ^ Fedora Documentation Project Sr. Developer Relations Mgr. | fedoraproject.org/wiki/DocsProject quaid.108.redhat.com | gpg key: AD0E0C41 ////////////////////////////////// \\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\ -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: signature.asc Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 189 bytes Desc: This is a digitally signed message part URL: From sundaram at fedoraproject.org Wed Dec 6 21:14:07 2006 From: sundaram at fedoraproject.org (Rahul Sundaram) Date: Thu, 07 Dec 2006 02:44:07 +0530 Subject: just Fedora [RFC] In-Reply-To: <1165439029.24009.244.camel@erato.phig.org> References: <1165439029.24009.244.camel@erato.phig.org> Message-ID: <4577329F.9070708@fedoraproject.org> Karsten Wade wrote: > Based on conversations on fedora-advisory-board and the state of the > future, I propose we start using the word "Fedora" in all our > documentation to refer to: > > * The distribution itself > * The set of packages > * The project > > For the project case, I think a good style is this: > > "For the first instance of referring to the formal project, use 'Fedora > Project' to set the context, then use 'Fedora' afterward to refer back > to the project. If writing about both the project and the distribution, > use 'Fedora Project' in all cases, referring to the distribution as > 'Fedora'." > > We definitely want to stop using 'Fedora Core' for documentation in the > future. Although we still need to identify the difference between > 'Core' and 'Extras' in FC6 documentation, we can start to use 'Fedora' > in place of 'Fedora Core' now to save us the work of changing it later. > > When things are settled around "The server version of Fedora is called > Fedora Foo, and the desktop live-CD is called Fedora Bar," then we'll > use those terms. However, since the different flavors do not exist yet, > we don't need to start worrying about them. :) > > - Karsten, who hates search and replace in the Wiki I already started doing this in the documentation that I am working with. I think it makes better sense to not marginalize Fedora Extras unncessarily even in the current release process Rahul From kwade at redhat.com Wed Dec 6 21:31:04 2006 From: kwade at redhat.com (Karsten Wade) Date: Wed, 06 Dec 2006 13:31:04 -0800 Subject: just Fedora [RFC] In-Reply-To: <4577329F.9070708@fedoraproject.org> References: <1165439029.24009.244.camel@erato.phig.org> <4577329F.9070708@fedoraproject.org> Message-ID: <1165440664.24009.254.camel@erato.phig.org> On Thu, 2006-12-07 at 02:44 +0530, Rahul Sundaram wrote: > I already started doing this in the documentation that I am working > with. I think it makes better sense to not marginalize Fedora Extras > unncessarily even in the current release process Good point. We can supplement instructions for FC6-related documentation to say, "Use 'Fedora Extras' only when referring to: * Processes about getting involved in packaging; * When discussing enabling a separate FE repo Otherwise, we can effectively consider FE and FC to all be just F(edora) now." -- Karsten Wade, RHCE, 108 Editor ^ Fedora Documentation Project Sr. Developer Relations Mgr. | fedoraproject.org/wiki/DocsProject quaid.108.redhat.com | gpg key: AD0E0C41 ////////////////////////////////// \\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\ -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: signature.asc Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 189 bytes Desc: This is a digitally signed message part URL: From kwade at redhat.com Wed Dec 6 21:44:18 2006 From: kwade at redhat.com (Karsten Wade) Date: Wed, 06 Dec 2006 13:44:18 -0800 Subject: Few questions about the Admin Gude In-Reply-To: <45767C05.6030009@mkc.co.nz> References: <45767C05.6030009@mkc.co.nz> Message-ID: <1165441458.24009.264.camel@erato.phig.org> On Wed, 2006-12-06 at 21:15 +1300, Vladimir Kosovac wrote: > Hi people. > > I am about to start writing draft for Users/Accounts module of the > guide. Can anybody confirm whether I'm on the right track if module is > structured as per below: > > 1] Intro + - Briefly say what the entire chapter/section covers > - A bit about the general stuff (multi-user system, root vs > unprivileged accounts, etc.) > - Explanation of relevant files in /etc > - What happens in the background when adding/modifying users/groups > 2] Managing users/groups using system-config-users > 3] " using command line utilities > 4] Password policies > 5] Additional documentation > > Does anything else needs covering? Other than that addition above, the list seems complete to me. I reviewed and lightly edited/reformatted that page, the work is good. Oh, is it worth mentioning or even just linking to SELinux documentation? Using su to switch users does not necessarily change the user's role, does it? Do you think it is worth covering permission escalation, e.g., su and sudo? There is content about sudo that we can pull as-is with updates into this guide. It is unpublished AFAICT, but the source is in CVS: http://cvs.fedora.redhat.com/lxr/docs/source/sudo-tutorial/ http://cvs.fedora.redhat.com/lxr/docs/source/sudo-tutorial/en_US/sudo-tutorial.xml You can grab the module, which may not build as-is, by doing this: cd /path/to/local/CVS/sandbox export CVSROOT=:ext:@cvs.fedoraproject.org:/cvs/docs cvs -z3 co docs-common sudo-tutorial I just tested, and this works: cd sudo-tutorial make html-en_US You can then copy/paste from the HTML into the Docs/Drafts/... Unless this belongs in someone else's module. :) In that case, they should use this content. :) :) - Karsten -- Karsten Wade, RHCE, 108 Editor ^ Fedora Documentation Project Sr. Developer Relations Mgr. | fedoraproject.org/wiki/DocsProject quaid.108.redhat.com | gpg key: AD0E0C41 ////////////////////////////////// \\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\ -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: signature.asc Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 189 bytes Desc: This is a digitally signed message part URL: From vnk at mkc.co.nz Wed Dec 6 23:29:30 2006 From: vnk at mkc.co.nz (Vladimir Kosovac) Date: Thu, 7 Dec 2006 12:29:30 +1300 (NZDT) Subject: Few questions about the Admin Guide In-Reply-To: <1165441458.24009.264.camel@erato.phig.org> References: <45767C05.6030009@mkc.co.nz> <1165441458.24009.264.camel@erato.phig.org> Message-ID: <34853.202.74.202.139.1165447770.squirrel@www.mkc.co.nz> On Thu, December 7, 2006 10:44 am, Karsten Wade wrote: |*| On Wed, 2006-12-06 at 21:15 +1300, Vladimir Kosovac wrote: |*|> Hi people. |*|> |*|> I am about to start writing draft for Users/Accounts module of the |*|> guide. Can anybody confirm whether I'm on the right track if module is |*|> structured as per below: |*|> |*|> 1] Intro |*| + - Briefly say what the entire chapter/section covers |*|> - A bit about the general stuff (multi-user system, root vs |*|> unprivileged accounts, etc.) |*|> - Explanation of relevant files in /etc |*|> - What happens in the background when adding/modifying users/groups |*|> 2] Managing users/groups using system-config-users |*|> 3] " using command line utilities |*|> 4] Password policies |*|> 5] Additional documentation |*|> |*|> Does anything else needs covering? |*| |*| Other than that addition above, the list seems complete to me. I |*| reviewed and lightly edited/reformatted that page, the work is good. Thanks |*| Oh, is it worth mentioning or even just linking to SELinux |*| documentation? Using su to switch users does not necessarily change the |*| user's role, does it? |*| |*| Do you think it is worth covering permission escalation, e.g., su and |*| sudo? I considered this with the targeted audience in mind, which I think is more technical than say, DUG's readers. Therefore I wanted to avoid paranoid approach to root account usage (with few warnings, of course) and write a bit about sudo, as widely accepted good way of obtaining privileges for one-off jobs. Linking to SELinux docs from here seems more appropriate than other-way-around. |*| There is content about sudo that we can pull as-is with updates into |*| this guide. It is unpublished AFAICT, but the source is in CVS: |*| |*| http://cvs.fedora.redhat.com/lxr/docs/source/sudo-tutorial/ |*| http://cvs.fedora.redhat.com/lxr/docs/source/sudo-tutorial/en_US/sudo-tutorial.xml |*| |*| You can grab the module, which may not build as-is, by doing this: |*| |*| cd /path/to/local/CVS/sandbox |*| export CVSROOT=:ext:@cvs.fedoraproject.org:/cvs/docs |*| cvs -z3 co docs-common sudo-tutorial Will co this and have a look. Cheers, Vladimir |*| I just tested, and this works: |*| |*| cd sudo-tutorial |*| make html-en_US |*| |*| You can then copy/paste from the HTML into the Docs/Drafts/... Unless |*| this belongs in someone else's module. :) In that case, they should use |*| this content. :) :) |*| |*| - Karsten |*| -- |*| Karsten Wade, RHCE, 108 Editor ^ Fedora Documentation Project |*| Sr. Developer Relations Mgr. | fedoraproject.org/wiki/DocsProject |*| quaid.108.redhat.com | gpg key: AD0E0C41 |*| ////////////////////////////////// \\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\ |*| -- |*| fedora-docs-list mailing list |*| fedora-docs-list at redhat.com |*| To unsubscribe: |*| https://www.redhat.com/mailman/listinfo/fedora-docs-list From kwade at redhat.com Wed Dec 6 23:39:07 2006 From: kwade at redhat.com (Karsten Wade) Date: Wed, 06 Dec 2006 15:39:07 -0800 Subject: FW: follow-up on OSDL DTL Documentation Framework In-Reply-To: <1B47D24854C7BC4FA8DA28BEBB59B0BAF53D5A@orsmsx419.amr.corp.intel.com> References: <1B47D24854C7BC4FA8DA28BEBB59B0BAF53D5A@orsmsx419.amr.corp.intel.com> Message-ID: <1165448347.24009.289.camel@erato.phig.org> f-docs-l folks, please read below for the context of this message. On Wed, 2006-12-06 at 14:44 -0800, Bastian, Waldo wrote: > At the first DAM meeting we discussed ways to improve developer > documentation, and discussed a documentatation framework. A few weeks > back we had an IRC meeting on the same topic. It seems that currently > people within Fedora are looking at the same issue. For those of you > that will be attending the DAM-III meeting the next few days, this might > be a good topic to revisit. In addition we can schedule a meeting for > next week on IRC to extend the discussion to those who aren't present at > DAM-III. (Let's say Wed Dec 12, 8am pacific / 17:00 Paris on > #fedora-docs on irc.freenode.net?) I'm good for Tuesday 12 Dec. but not Wednesday 13 Dec. I can do earlier on Thursday 14 Dec., such as at 0600 PST/1500 UTC or 0700 PST/1600 UTC. For Fedora folks, let's plan this meeting around my schedule first, and I'll report out to Fedora folks who cannot attend. Based on our first joint conversation, we'll see where to go next. - Karsten > Cheers, > Waldo > > Intel Corporation - Channel Platform Solutions Group - Hillsboro, Oregon > -----Original Message----- > From: Karsten Wade [mailto:kwade at redhat.com] > Sent: Tuesday, December 05, 2006 6:51 PM > To: Bastian, Waldo > Subject: follow-up on OSDL DTL Documentation Framework > > Waldo: > > I was forwarded a message regarding $SUBJECT. We have been discussing > much of these same issues in Fedora, on all levels. In essence, how can > downstream projects/distros contribute toward/through a commons of > documentation. > > Right now we are working on some ideas of what we think Fedora wants to > do, and we want to reach out to folks such as your project to > collaborate: > > http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/DocsProject/WorkFlowIdeas/AdvancingtheProj > ect > > We're in #fedora-docs (I'm 'quaid') on irc.freenode.net if you have some > time to drop by (or schedule a discussion) so we can see where our > various ideas and activities might mesh together. > > Thanks - Karsten -- Karsten Wade, RHCE, 108 Editor ^ Fedora Documentation Project Sr. Developer Relations Mgr. | fedoraproject.org/wiki/DocsProject quaid.108.redhat.com | gpg key: AD0E0C41 ////////////////////////////////// \\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\ -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: signature.asc Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 189 bytes Desc: This is a digitally signed message part URL: From waldo.bastian at intel.com Wed Dec 6 23:42:30 2006 From: waldo.bastian at intel.com (Bastian, Waldo) Date: Wed, 6 Dec 2006 15:42:30 -0800 Subject: FW: follow-up on OSDL DTL Documentation Framework Message-ID: <1B47D24854C7BC4FA8DA28BEBB59B0BAF53E1E@orsmsx419.amr.corp.intel.com> Let's do Tue Dec 12, 8am pacific / 17:00 Paris on #fedora-docs on irc.freenode.net Cheers, Waldo Intel Corporation - Channel Platform Solutions Group - Hillsboro, Oregon >-----Original Message----- >From: Karsten Wade [mailto:kwade at redhat.com] >Sent: Wednesday, December 06, 2006 3:39 PM >To: Bastian, Waldo; desktop_architects at osdl.org; fedora-docs- >list at redhat.com >Subject: Re: FW: follow-up on OSDL DTL Documentation Framework > >f-docs-l folks, please read below for the context of this message. > >On Wed, 2006-12-06 at 14:44 -0800, Bastian, Waldo wrote: >> At the first DAM meeting we discussed ways to improve developer >> documentation, and discussed a documentatation framework. A few weeks >> back we had an IRC meeting on the same topic. It seems that currently >> people within Fedora are looking at the same issue. For those of you >> that will be attending the DAM-III meeting the next few days, this might >> be a good topic to revisit. In addition we can schedule a meeting for >> next week on IRC to extend the discussion to those who aren't present at >> DAM-III. (Let's say Wed Dec 12, 8am pacific / 17:00 Paris on >> #fedora-docs on irc.freenode.net?) > >I'm good for Tuesday 12 Dec. but not Wednesday 13 Dec. I can do earlier >on Thursday 14 Dec., such as at 0600 PST/1500 UTC or 0700 PST/1600 UTC. > >For Fedora folks, let's plan this meeting around my schedule first, and >I'll report out to Fedora folks who cannot attend. Based on our first >joint conversation, we'll see where to go next. > >- Karsten > >> Cheers, >> Waldo >> >> Intel Corporation - Channel Platform Solutions Group - Hillsboro, Oregon >> -----Original Message----- >> From: Karsten Wade [mailto:kwade at redhat.com] >> Sent: Tuesday, December 05, 2006 6:51 PM >> To: Bastian, Waldo >> Subject: follow-up on OSDL DTL Documentation Framework >> >> Waldo: >> >> I was forwarded a message regarding $SUBJECT. We have been discussing >> much of these same issues in Fedora, on all levels. In essence, how can >> downstream projects/distros contribute toward/through a commons of >> documentation. >> >> Right now we are working on some ideas of what we think Fedora wants to >> do, and we want to reach out to folks such as your project to >> collaborate: >> >> http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/DocsProject/WorkFlowIdeas/AdvancingtheProj >> ect >> >> We're in #fedora-docs (I'm 'quaid') on irc.freenode.net if you have some >> time to drop by (or schedule a discussion) so we can see where our >> various ideas and activities might mesh together. >> >> Thanks - Karsten >-- >Karsten Wade, RHCE, 108 Editor ^ Fedora Documentation Project > Sr. Developer Relations Mgr. | fedoraproject.org/wiki/DocsProject > quaid.108.redhat.com | gpg key: AD0E0C41 >////////////////////////////////// \\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\ From jmbabich at gmail.com Thu Dec 7 10:01:47 2006 From: jmbabich at gmail.com (John Babich) Date: Thu, 7 Dec 2006 13:01:47 +0300 Subject: FW: follow-up on OSDL DTL Documentation Framework In-Reply-To: <1165448347.24009.289.camel@erato.phig.org> References: <1B47D24854C7BC4FA8DA28BEBB59B0BAF53D5A@orsmsx419.amr.corp.intel.com> <1165448347.24009.289.camel@erato.phig.org> Message-ID: <9d2c731f0612070201t352d7ad3hc64a76ca3264915@mail.gmail.com> Karsten and fellow FDP team members: I'm good for any of the times discussed. This sounds like a great collaboration of people and ideas towards the common goal of "FLOSS docs the FLOSS way". I'm looking forward to it. John Babich On 12/7/06, Karsten Wade wrote: > f-docs-l folks, please read below for the context of this message. > > On Wed, 2006-12-06 at 14:44 -0800, Bastian, Waldo wrote: > > At the first DAM meeting we discussed ways to improve developer > > documentation, and discussed a documentatation framework. A few weeks > > back we had an IRC meeting on the same topic. It seems that currently > > people within Fedora are looking at the same issue. For those of you > > that will be attending the DAM-III meeting the next few days, this might > > be a good topic to revisit. In addition we can schedule a meeting for > > next week on IRC to extend the discussion to those who aren't present at > > DAM-III. (Let's say Wed Dec 12, 8am pacific / 17:00 Paris on > > #fedora-docs on irc.freenode.net?) > > I'm good for Tuesday 12 Dec. but not Wednesday 13 Dec. I can do earlier > on Thursday 14 Dec., such as at 0600 PST/1500 UTC or 0700 PST/1600 UTC. > > For Fedora folks, let's plan this meeting around my schedule first, and > I'll report out to Fedora folks who cannot attend. Based on our first > joint conversation, we'll see where to go next. > > - Karsten > > > Cheers, > > Waldo > > > > Intel Corporation - Channel Platform Solutions Group - Hillsboro, Oregon > > -----Original Message----- > > From: Karsten Wade [mailto:kwade at redhat.com] > > Sent: Tuesday, December 05, 2006 6:51 PM > > To: Bastian, Waldo > > Subject: follow-up on OSDL DTL Documentation Framework > > > > Waldo: > > > > I was forwarded a message regarding $SUBJECT. We have been discussing > > much of these same issues in Fedora, on all levels. In essence, how can > > downstream projects/distros contribute toward/through a commons of > > documentation. > > > > Right now we are working on some ideas of what we think Fedora wants to > > do, and we want to reach out to folks such as your project to > > collaborate: > > > > http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/DocsProject/WorkFlowIdeas/AdvancingtheProj > > ect > > > > We're in #fedora-docs (I'm 'quaid') on irc.freenode.net if you have some > > time to drop by (or schedule a discussion) so we can see where our > > various ideas and activities might mesh together. > > > > Thanks - Karsten > -- > Karsten Wade, RHCE, 108 Editor ^ Fedora Documentation Project > Sr. Developer Relations Mgr. | fedoraproject.org/wiki/DocsProject > quaid.108.redhat.com | gpg key: AD0E0C41 > ////////////////////////////////// \\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\ > > > -- > fedora-docs-list mailing list > fedora-docs-list at redhat.com > To unsubscribe: > https://www.redhat.com/mailman/listinfo/fedora-docs-list > > > From dtfedora at yahoo.com Thu Dec 7 00:21:53 2006 From: dtfedora at yahoo.com (Dimitrios Typaldos) Date: Wed, 6 Dec 2006 16:21:53 -0800 (PST) Subject: comments on 'directory structure' Message-ID: <20061207002153.23717.qmail@web57907.mail.re3.yahoo.com> I would like to include some ideas/proposals that maybe could improve the Directory Structure: Naturally, there are two different types of approach in presenting the directory hierarchy : 1 - deploying the tree directory from root to branches giving a short explanation for each of them 2 - expanding the way the work started already by selecting a general list of 'concepts' and try to map them in the various directories to which a relevant association exist. For instance : system monitoring -> /proc/ ... help ->: info and man pages directories etc.. I think the description can be done in both schemes, though definitely the most relevant is the one already existing (e.g. No 2 above). Maybe a good idea is to avoid mapping simple notions otherwise we are risking to end with an infinite list of 1->1 associations of limited interest. - Adding information on hard and symbolic links that ease the directories' access regardless the absolute position of the including files for the user's point of view (can be added in the introduction ?) - Further explanations on the specific content and relevant comments of the directories' entries - In the 'Additional resources' I would find good to provide some useful links to other chapters with sharing entities - few words about the effect of permission privileges dependances among parent directories and daughter branches when these are set - (??) list of directories whose improper alteration could critically compromise the system's performance Any comments positive or negative are welcome. Dim o-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------o pub 1024D/6A7B898C 2006-11-16 Key fingerprint = F892 27EB 871A 3C16 B18E 3AD5 3A6A 3F77 6A7B 898C uid Dimitrios Typaldos (Encrypted) sub 2048g/4773BB57 2006-11-16 ____________________________________________________________________________________ Have a burning question? Go to www.Answers.yahoo.com and get answers from real people who know. From kwade at redhat.com Thu Dec 7 20:55:42 2006 From: kwade at redhat.com (Karsten Wade) Date: Thu, 07 Dec 2006 12:55:42 -0800 Subject: workflow Message-ID: <1165524942.24009.451.camel@erato.phig.org> Here is a gathering of all the good but disparate pages on the Wiki under one workflow page. http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/DocsProject/WorkFlow If there is a page at any URL that is important to our workflow, it should be linked from that page. Whatever is missing, please add it; help make it more clear; add new workflows to gather pages underneath. I tried to cover the Wiki basics, since those are in demand. We also need a brushing of XML, and there are a few stubs for Plone. Thanks. :) cheers - Karsten -- Karsten Wade, RHCE, 108 Editor ^ Fedora Documentation Project Sr. Developer Relations Mgr. | fedoraproject.org/wiki/DocsProject quaid.108.redhat.com | gpg key: AD0E0C41 ////////////////////////////////// \\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\ -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: signature.asc Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 189 bytes Desc: This is a digitally signed message part URL: From stickster at gmail.com Fri Dec 8 01:23:22 2006 From: stickster at gmail.com (Paul W. Frields) Date: Thu, 07 Dec 2006 20:23:22 -0500 Subject: comments on 'directory structure' In-Reply-To: <20061207002153.23717.qmail@web57907.mail.re3.yahoo.com> References: <20061207002153.23717.qmail@web57907.mail.re3.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <1165541002.28618.4.camel@localhost.localdomain> On Wed, 2006-12-06 at 16:21 -0800, Dimitrios Typaldos wrote: > I would like to include some ideas/proposals that maybe could improve > the Directory Structure: [...snip...] > Any comments positive or negative are welcome. Unfortunately, this is probably the wrong forum for such a discussion. You could try fedora-devel-list instead, but be prepared for a strenuous argument. Best of luck! -- Paul W. Frields, RHCE http://paul.frields.org/ gpg fingerprint: 3DA6 A0AC 6D58 FEC4 0233 5906 ACDB C937 BD11 3717 Fedora Project Board: http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Board Fedora Docs Project: http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/DocsProject -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: signature.asc Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 189 bytes Desc: This is a digitally signed message part URL: From stickster at gmail.com Fri Dec 8 01:27:54 2006 From: stickster at gmail.com (Paul W. Frields) Date: Thu, 07 Dec 2006 20:27:54 -0500 Subject: Self Introduction: Igor Miletic In-Reply-To: <1165428909.7395.4.camel@LinuxFC6> References: <1165186962.12796.62.camel@LinuxFC6> <1165363434.24009.157.camel@erato.phig.org> <1165365804.7792.10.camel@LinuxFC6> <1165371955.24009.172.camel@erato.phig.org> <1165374720.7792.14.camel@LinuxFC6> <1165420524.24009.201.camel@erato.phig.org> <1165428909.7395.4.camel@LinuxFC6> Message-ID: <1165541274.28618.7.camel@localhost.localdomain> On Wed, 2006-12-06 at 13:15 -0500, Igor Miletic wrote: > ? ???, 06. 12 2006. ? 07:55 -0800, Karsten Wade ????: > > > We should follow the modular style being used for the Fedora > > Administration Guide now. So, as a first interesting exercise, can you > > create/update a page like this one for the > > Docs/Drafts/SoftwareManagementGuide: > > > > http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Docs/Drafts/AdministrationGuide/Contributors > > > > The basic idea is to have a table with each chapter (module) in its own > > row. Then you can pick one or a few chapters to begin work on, putting > > yourself down as the '''Contributor'''. > > > > John most likely wants to continue working on the FSMG, and you can see > > what other writers are interested. > > I created the draft page here: > > http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Docs/Drafts/SoftwareManagementGuide/Contributors > > For now all links point to existing pages. I put myself for the Managing > Software section, it seems to cover the yum part well, maybe I should > add the pirut part with an example and possibly yumex part as well (i.e. > show how to install it through pirut and then show how to use it)? > > Also, any other ideas are welcome too. I would stick with pup/pirut for now. That satisfies 90% of users' needs. The extra features of yumex are really only interesting or useful to a pool of people who already have expertise. As an example, I've been using RPM packages for almost ten years and I rarely need to use anything besides pup, pirut, or the occasional yum CLI myself. -- Paul W. Frields, RHCE http://paul.frields.org/ gpg fingerprint: 3DA6 A0AC 6D58 FEC4 0233 5906 ACDB C937 BD11 3717 Fedora Project Board: http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Board Fedora Docs Project: http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/DocsProject -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: signature.asc Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 189 bytes Desc: This is a digitally signed message part URL: From sundaram at fedoraproject.org Fri Dec 8 01:27:37 2006 From: sundaram at fedoraproject.org (Rahul Sundaram) Date: Fri, 08 Dec 2006 06:57:37 +0530 Subject: Self Introduction: Igor Miletic In-Reply-To: <1165541274.28618.7.camel@localhost.localdomain> References: <1165186962.12796.62.camel@LinuxFC6> <1165363434.24009.157.camel@erato.phig.org> <1165365804.7792.10.camel@LinuxFC6> <1165371955.24009.172.camel@erato.phig.org> <1165374720.7792.14.camel@LinuxFC6> <1165420524.24009.201.camel@erato.phig.org> <1165428909.7395.4.camel@LinuxFC6> <1165541274.28618.7.camel@localhost.localdomain> Message-ID: <4578BF89.3030603@fedoraproject.org> Paul W. Frields wrote: > I would stick with pup/pirut for now. That satisfies 90% of users' > needs. The extra features of yumex are really only interesting or > useful to a pool of people who already have expertise. As an example, > I've been using RPM packages for almost ten years and I rarely need to > use anything besides pup, pirut, or the occasional yum CLI myself. Another important thing to consider is that Yumex is undergoing a rewrite now and all of the interface is being revamped. So if you want to document Yumex better, consider talking to the developer and wait till the interface changes are complete. Rahul From dtfedora at yahoo.com Fri Dec 8 01:31:38 2006 From: dtfedora at yahoo.com (Dimitrios Typaldos) Date: Thu, 7 Dec 2006 17:31:38 -0800 (PST) Subject: comments on 'directory structure' Message-ID: <20061208013138.86448.qmail@web57910.mail.re3.yahoo.com> It seems properly that I have misinterpreted some previous sayings. I had the idea that the pages under drafts are still under development and not in a rather final phase. Could someone clarify this for me , please just to get a solid idea of my tasks ? Thanks Dimitri o-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------o pub 1024D/6A7B898C 2006-11-16 Key fingerprint = F892 27EB 871A 3C16 B18E 3AD5 3A6A 3F77 6A7B 898C uid Dimitrios Typaldos (Encrypted) sub 2048g/4773BB57 2006-11-16 ----- Original Message ---- From: Paul W. Frields To: For participants of the Documentation Project Sent: Friday, December 8, 2006 1:23:22 AM Subject: Re: comments on 'directory structure' On Wed, 2006-12-06 at 16:21 -0800, Dimitrios Typaldos wrote: > I would like to include some ideas/proposals that maybe could improve > the Directory Structure: [...snip...] > Any comments positive or negative are welcome. Unfortunately, this is probably the wrong forum for such a discussion. You could try fedora-devel-list instead, but be prepared for a strenuous argument. Best of luck! -- Paul W. Frields, RHCE http://paul.frields.org/ gpg fingerprint: 3DA6 A0AC 6D58 FEC4 0233 5906 ACDB C937 BD11 3717 Fedora Project Board: http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Board Fedora Docs Project: http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/DocsProject -- fedora-docs-list mailing list fedora-docs-list at redhat.com To unsubscribe: https://www.redhat.com/mailman/listinfo/fedora-docs-list ____________________________________________________________________________________ Need a quick answer? Get one in minutes from people who know. Ask your question on www.Answers.yahoo.com From dtfedora at yahoo.com Fri Dec 8 00:58:58 2006 From: dtfedora at yahoo.com (Dimitrios Typaldos) Date: Thu, 7 Dec 2006 16:58:58 -0800 (PST) Subject: Administration Guide modules and getting started Message-ID: <20061208005858.45368.qmail@web57908.mail.re3.yahoo.com> I might have mis-interpreted the last message. Is this meaning that a second editor is not necessary for this chapter ? Apologies if this happened. Dimitri o-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------o pub 1024D/6A7B898C 2006-11-16 Key fingerprint = F892 27EB 871A 3C16 B18E 3AD5 3A6A 3F77 6A7B 898C uid Dimitrios Typaldos (Encrypted) sub 2048g/4773BB57 2006-11-16 ----- Original Message ---- From: Dan Smith To: For participants of the Documentation Project Sent: Tuesday, December 5, 2006 4:23:59 PM Subject: Re: Re: Administration Guide modules and getting started I've already done a rough on dir structure and partitioning so far. Just trying to figure the protocol about adding them in. Want to get some feedback primarily on the style I'm using for the documentation. -- fedora-docs-list mailing list fedora-docs-list at redhat.com To unsubscribe: https://www.redhat.com/mailman/listinfo/fedora-docs-list __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around http://mail.yahoo.com -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From vnk at mkc.co.nz Fri Dec 8 04:43:32 2006 From: vnk at mkc.co.nz (Vladimir Kosovac) Date: Fri, 08 Dec 2006 17:43:32 +1300 Subject: Wiki editing In-Reply-To: <1165548739.2414.24.camel@erato.phig.org> References: <37232.202.74.202.139.1165528712.squirrel@www.mkc.co.nz> <1165548739.2414.24.camel@erato.phig.org> Message-ID: <4578ED74.80005@mkc.co.nz> Karsten Wade wrote: > Do you mind if I bounce this reply to the list, as written? I was going > to just do it, but I thought better of it. > Not at all - I am posting this to the list. > On Fri, 2006-12-08 at 10:58 +1300, Vladimir Kosovac wrote: > >> Lots >> of styling experiments mean that I update often, which further causes lots >> of messages sent to subscribers. > > Try the Preview button. It creates a preview of the change below the > edit area. More ideas below. I do but somehow I always come up with a new, better idea, just after saving :-) >> * Is this generally annoying to subscribers? > > Depends. Lots of short messages can be OK if they are various targeted > changes. That can be easier than slogging through a long, single edit > of a large number of changes. If you use the preview button or the > sandbox style (see below), you can make it so that only substantive > changes are saved. Although we all make typos that have to be fixed, > and there is the Trivial Change checkbox for that when submitting. > > These are the same methodologies > >> * Is there a better place for trying out various formatting options >> (perhaps I should just make a new page for this purpose?) > > Use your NameSpace (e.g. VladimirKosovac/) as a sandbox. You can > prototype entire trees of documents, then use ''More Actions: > Rename > Page'' for each page to move it to Docs/Drafts/. > Yes, figured that earlier this morning and started already. >> * Should I bother you with this stuff or post such questions to the list? > > Yes. :) I'm always happy to help directly, but there is an advantage to > sending to the list. OK then, I'll post to the list and CC quaid, so that both these are accomplished. . . Just kidding. If anything, we all learn that there really aren't > any bad questions, just unasked ones. So, here's a recursive example. > > - Karsten Thanks, Vladimir -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: signature.asc Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 251 bytes Desc: OpenPGP digital signature URL: From grejigl-gnomeprevod at yahoo.ca Fri Dec 8 05:09:45 2006 From: grejigl-gnomeprevod at yahoo.ca (Igor Miletic) Date: Fri, 08 Dec 2006 00:09:45 -0500 Subject: Self Introduction: Igor Miletic In-Reply-To: <1165541274.28618.7.camel@localhost.localdomain> References: <1165186962.12796.62.camel@LinuxFC6> <1165363434.24009.157.camel@erato.phig.org> <1165365804.7792.10.camel@LinuxFC6> <1165371955.24009.172.camel@erato.phig.org> <1165374720.7792.14.camel@LinuxFC6> <1165420524.24009.201.camel@erato.phig.org> <1165428909.7395.4.camel@LinuxFC6> <1165541274.28618.7.camel@localhost.localdomain> Message-ID: <1165554585.3676.3.camel@LinuxFC6> ? ???, 07. 12 2006. ? 20:27 -0500, Paul W. Frields ????: > On Wed, 2006-12-06 at 13:15 -0500, Igor Miletic wrote: > > ? ???, 06. 12 2006. ? 07:55 -0800, Karsten Wade ????: > > > > > We should follow the modular style being used for the Fedora > > > Administration Guide now. So, as a first interesting exercise, can you > > > create/update a page like this one for the > > > Docs/Drafts/SoftwareManagementGuide: > > > > > > http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Docs/Drafts/AdministrationGuide/Contributors > > > > > > The basic idea is to have a table with each chapter (module) in its own > > > row. Then you can pick one or a few chapters to begin work on, putting > > > yourself down as the '''Contributor'''. > > > > > > John most likely wants to continue working on the FSMG, and you can see > > > what other writers are interested. > > > > I created the draft page here: > > > > http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Docs/Drafts/SoftwareManagementGuide/Contributors > > > > For now all links point to existing pages. I put myself for the Managing > > Software section, it seems to cover the yum part well, maybe I should > > add the pirut part with an example and possibly yumex part as well (i.e. > > show how to install it through pirut and then show how to use it)? > > > > Also, any other ideas are welcome too. > > I would stick with pup/pirut for now. That satisfies 90% of users' > needs. The extra features of yumex are really only interesting or > useful to a pool of people who already have expertise. As an example, > I've been using RPM packages for almost ten years and I rarely need to > use anything besides pup, pirut, or the occasional yum CLI myself. > Ok, then it is just pup and pirut too add. I think yum is covered well. Thanks, Igor -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: signature.asc Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 189 bytes Desc: ??? ?? ??? ?????? ?? ?????????? ???????? URL: From sundaram at fedoraproject.org Fri Dec 8 05:27:02 2006 From: sundaram at fedoraproject.org (Rahul Sundaram) Date: Fri, 08 Dec 2006 10:57:02 +0530 Subject: Self Introduction: Igor Miletic In-Reply-To: <1165554585.3676.3.camel@LinuxFC6> References: <1165186962.12796.62.camel@LinuxFC6> <1165363434.24009.157.camel@erato.phig.org> <1165365804.7792.10.camel@LinuxFC6> <1165371955.24009.172.camel@erato.phig.org> <1165374720.7792.14.camel@LinuxFC6> <1165420524.24009.201.camel@erato.phig.org> <1165428909.7395.4.camel@LinuxFC6> <1165541274.28618.7.camel@localhost.localdomain> <1165554585.3676.3.camel@LinuxFC6> Message-ID: <4578F7A6.4000203@fedoraproject.org> Igor Miletic wrote: >> I would stick with pup/pirut for now. That satisfies 90% of users' >> needs. The extra features of yumex are really only interesting or >> useful to a pool of people who already have expertise. As an example, >> I've been using RPM packages for almost ten years and I rarely need to >> use anything besides pup, pirut, or the occasional yum CLI myself. >> > > Ok, then it is just pup and pirut too add. I think yum is covered well. For Pup, see http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/pup. You need to import and rework that content into the guide. Rahul From vnk at mkc.co.nz Fri Dec 8 06:06:27 2006 From: vnk at mkc.co.nz (Vladimir Kosovac) Date: Fri, 08 Dec 2006 19:06:27 +1300 Subject: Few questions about the Admin Gude In-Reply-To: <1165441458.24009.264.camel@erato.phig.org> References: <45767C05.6030009@mkc.co.nz> <1165441458.24009.264.camel@erato.phig.org> Message-ID: <457900E3.6050301@mkc.co.nz> Karsten Wade wrote: > On Wed, 2006-12-06 at 21:15 +1300, Vladimir Kosovac wrote: >> Hi people. >> >> I am about to start writing draft for Users/Accounts module of the >> guide. Can anybody confirm whether I'm on the right track if module is >> structured as per below: >> >> 1] Intro > + - Briefly say what the entire chapter/section covers >> - A bit about the general stuff (multi-user system, root vs >> unprivileged accounts, etc.) >> - Explanation of relevant files in /etc >> - What happens in the background when adding/modifying users/groups >> 2] Managing users/groups using system-config-users >> 3] " using command line utilities >> 4] Password policies >> 5] Additional documentation >> >> Does anything else needs covering? > > Other than that addition above, the list seems complete to me. I > reviewed and lightly edited/reformatted that page, the work is good. > > Oh, is it worth mentioning or even just linking to SELinux > documentation? Using su to switch users does not necessarily change the > user's role, does it? > > Do you think it is worth covering permission escalation, e.g., su and > sudo? > > There is content about sudo that we can pull as-is with updates into > this guide. It is unpublished AFAICT, but the source is in CVS: > > http://cvs.fedora.redhat.com/lxr/docs/source/sudo-tutorial/ > http://cvs.fedora.redhat.com/lxr/docs/source/sudo-tutorial/en_US/sudo-tutorial.xml > > You can grab the module, which may not build as-is, by doing this: > > cd /path/to/local/CVS/sandbox > export CVSROOT=:ext:@cvs.fedoraproject.org:/cvs/docs > cvs -z3 co docs-common sudo-tutorial I have only anonymous access to CVSROOT=:pserver:anonymous at cvs.fedora.redhat.com:/cvs/docs Found sudo-tutorial draft there, written by Paul Frields and Tommy Reynolds though. Are we talking about the same document? Vladimir > > I just tested, and this works: > > cd sudo-tutorial > make html-en_US > > You can then copy/paste from the HTML into the Docs/Drafts/... Unless > this belongs in someone else's module. :) In that case, they should use > this content. :) :) > > - Karsten > -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: signature.asc Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 251 bytes Desc: OpenPGP digital signature URL: From draciron at gmail.com Fri Dec 8 07:10:11 2006 From: draciron at gmail.com (Dan Smith) Date: Fri, 8 Dec 2006 01:10:11 -0600 Subject: comments on 'directory structure' In-Reply-To: <20061208013138.86448.qmail@web57910.mail.re3.yahoo.com> References: <20061208013138.86448.qmail@web57910.mail.re3.yahoo.com> Message-ID: Dimitri ... We are documenting current functionality. I too have things I'd like to suggest to the developers but this is not the place for it. I'm also new here and a little lost myself. I am having a bit of difficulty getting edit rights. Keeps telling me my GPG key doesn't exist. I created a new one (btw changed my sig) and it still tells me I am giving an invalid key. Didn't have that problem signing up for the initial wiki account. However the edit application says I don't exist and won't allow me to submit a key. I'll submit a text version and let everybody rip it apart here and somebody post it while I work on getting editing rights. As for what we are doing. This is how I understand it. I am probably wrong on a few points and hope that I'll be instantly corrected. We take sections of documentation and explain how,what and the usage of various parts of Fedora. This is also in a frame of reference that it can easily be merged with other distro documentation sets to reduce the duplication of efforts and create a better user experience not just for Fedora users but also for all Linux users. There are however areas that are distro specific and part of our job is to write clear user guides that help users learn/use Fedora Linux in particuler and Linux in general in non-Fedora specific areas. I'll post my first stabs at doing such to the list for feedback and hopefully for somebody to post to the appropriate areas. From http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/DocsProject/UsingGpg/CreatingKeys (Very well written doc page on creating keys. Though identifying your keyid is missing. Other than that excellent document) Side note Dimitri. You only want to publish your sig, not all of your keys. - gpg --keyserver pgp.mit.edu --send-keys GPGKEYID If you want to give or send a file copy of your key to someone, use this command to write it to an ASCII text file: - gpg --export --armor jqdoe at example.com > jqdoe-pubkey.asc Once you create the file you can just attach it to your email to sign it. On 12/7/06, Dimitrios Typaldos wrote: > > It seems properly that I have misinterpreted some previous sayings. I had > the idea that the pages under drafts are still under development and not in > a rather final phase. Could someone clarify this for me , please just to get > a solid idea of my tasks ? > > Thanks > Dimitri > > > o-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------o > > pub 1024D/6A7B898C 2006-11-16 > Key fingerprint = F892 27EB 871A 3C16 B18E 3AD5 3A6A 3F77 6A7B 898C > uid Dimitrios Typaldos (Encrypted) > sub 2048g/4773BB57 2006-11-16 > > ----- Original Message ---- > From: Paul W. Frields > To: For participants of the Documentation Project < > fedora-docs-list at redhat.com> > Sent: Friday, December 8, 2006 1:23:22 AM > Subject: Re: comments on 'directory structure' > > On Wed, 2006-12-06 at 16:21 -0800, Dimitrios Typaldos wrote: > > I would like to include some ideas/proposals that maybe could improve > > the Directory Structure: > [...snip...] > > Any comments positive or negative are welcome. > > Unfortunately, this is probably the wrong forum for such a discussion. > You could try fedora-devel-list instead, but be prepared for a strenuous > argument. Best of luck! > > -- > Paul W. Frields, RHCE http://paul.frields.org/ > gpg fingerprint: 3DA6 A0AC 6D58 FEC4 0233 5906 ACDB C937 BD11 3717 > Fedora Project Board: http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Board > Fedora Docs Project: http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/DocsProject > > -- > fedora-docs-list mailing list > fedora-docs-list at redhat.com > To unsubscribe: > https://www.redhat.com/mailman/listinfo/fedora-docs-list > > > > > > > ____________________________________________________________________________________ > Need a quick answer? Get one in minutes from people who know. > Ask your question on www.Answers.yahoo.com > > -- > fedora-docs-list mailing list > fedora-docs-list at redhat.com > To unsubscribe: > https://www.redhat.com/mailman/listinfo/fedora-docs-list > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: -------------- next part -------------- -----BEGIN PGP PUBLIC KEY BLOCK----- Version: GnuPG v1.4.5 (GNU/Linux) mQGiBEV49UERBAC/v8WdNgICrCP44xHKryJ+TvsyYOv5GJz3uWdHM2dbttHqKrvE h8YIpzfZE04UUYA+n4+pgP9TD+BoDa1IFvJd0+yCZ85ZrCnFRHeRTGV6aKG+mCjc wa8OEIveQnkDZHJNYvs6wOrKJUKqogOznYQ2JS7tGy92McYs4GvmQIDr9wCg7DX9 sV5Yp2RAEyFb9PvsXY4q+o0EAL0VRsstSqgwB+sdV3gTbDdnadAxgZcsx8JDbsDB 1j37P7Ch3ltf5sjCbSG3fCBE7G5S+gnO+MdtDo/fn1VRB/DWlgdsEKcP8P2r69Nh 1Wnu8+MjPDYoSRLP8kamvAp7+9UeqHi2CaxYPn24DbenmCgxsJ2497bZ6iDTj2CY kQqfA/9M1ii7kJhHTR8KtzubJjrOScLtwFAE87Le0qnL824fhbxmli7HGOtF1uss njdCRuOAw53L4+J9Cmv0G8MAh3h9lXw1iNWpPckmKfP4KtyDvSzl+fggkIKWgjQt 1A6EvJ2Y1FEpYtmvrtdV3lEftEnhqCtFgMvKLiJaWBGMw2LQcbRORHJhY2lyb24g U21pdGggKExvbmcgaGFpcmVkIGd1aXRhciBwbGF5aW5nIExpbnV4IGZhbmF0aWMp IDxkcmFjaXJvbkBnbWFpbC5jb20+iGAEExECACAFAkV49UECGwMGCwkIBwMCBBUC CAMEFgIDAQIeAQIXgAAKCRB/UszKZtit8gwxAJ9W5D4UmYCCeP6VxDasFyZSaocr 0gCeJw3ZwNYL18G91dJGVFuGpZU60te5Ag0ERXj1XhAIAK+uMMdfrD+tVdACf4VC Wh9sRkQ7DnoNVLEK6IHHePwvg3xsWgcnDYfJtGAyPJolR9RFlkcG9D/ZkMnY0NH1 SsfvVkZU8yzHijmLgjYzFgtOtjiUfEssTnI8n+Y7COF1avuOVmU4D4AuTNcDHbcm m0xILBhonNCdqIUjjCy8PzNAQHQ6s2YNyIDTI2JAMwO0WAuXU3/exn6IOsHVK2Vc 9L0dYrbDQN2Vb50QOiFa7BQiKStzHpl1oDxzNEPvD6Z+QMU+hXITDG2OjrMFr6zn O76GFcHn+R2zEOpPb3GFztPifIB3FieF+vEF+PIP8BV2m1z2vdtVnfoh+v+1Qdkb djcAAwUIAKr0LMHnLmXkxC5JWN+04BpMSdGwi/cHjlTuH5Cv/ng6LhuB7WEeSIpZ QeYdzdxREXyiqRcF87NaIOH6DoEBkJaqsQj9dcXTNkar1oLL1euxHaqNtYkqgo0i 36snZC/toYLzqqjvjz7CuhRaKvJvfKmeh6le2BYLuUKJoPmDC0zM5quJw07AeMK0 sY1CqQTwCy6K9zMuz0B5/BUNh67Z1nFKHEI3VAmyxUS1Uw+1VMlfAG4PNdYKkVYn 9b/C+mr8Uvx5lf7gXySOA4S0VNF2x7RFoBxs4cHaYijm4xsT17VeZGnDDfEx1Xms CNGL7bPKlR1P/Ny/qOjvLMLHm4E9kvqISQQYEQIACQUCRXj1XgIbDAAKCRB/UszK Ztit8v/LAJ9cBVDAPai6ML13xxcIDP8Yir6MaQCgoGl72Y/iJ63o3BTZTtbfO63I hEE= =EyDd -----END PGP PUBLIC KEY BLOCK----- From draciron at gmail.com Fri Dec 8 07:40:32 2006 From: draciron at gmail.com (Dan Smith) Date: Fri, 8 Dec 2006 01:40:32 -0600 Subject: Dir structure rough text version call for feedback. Message-ID: I know I'm supposed to submit to the wiki but I am having a great deal of trouble with it not recognizing my key. Still not sure why. I've exported it. Then created a new one. Anyway I've had this sitting around for a couple weeks now ready and would like to get feedback on it and hopefully get it submitted to the Wiki by somebody with edit writes while I work on getting my account straitened out. Once I get reamed on a couple of these for mistakes in style I'll have a very good idea of what is and isn't wanted in documentation and can hopefully just submit in a normal fashion by then. Start rough draft ---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- The Fedora dir structure. This is meant as a practical guide for novice and mid level Fedora users. The information is based on real life usage rather than what dirs are theoretically supposed to be used for. Linux uses the traditional Unix dir structure. It was designed for use on multi-login servers and to facilitate organization as well as segregation of applications and files by intended usage.Linux in general and Fedora in specific has varied a little from the traditional usage of these file structures. In this document is both traditional and actual Linux usage. /bin Used to hold commands used by both users and admins. In general not for crucial commands. In single user mode /bin might not even be mounted if it is on a seperate partition. Non-essential scripts and utilities are often installed here as well. /boot This is where your kernel and related files are kept. It is also where the boot loader, Grub and or Lilo can be found. The most common reasons to access /boot is to make backup copies of your kernel before upgrading your kernel. It is highly recommended that you do so. Rpm kernel upgrades do not make a backup. If there is a problem and you do not have a copy of an older working kernel you can find your machine is unbootable. See kernel copying for how to make a backup copy of your kernel and what the various kernel files do. In /boot/grub or /boot/lilo you'll also find the grub menu. This will allow you to modify your boot menu. Only kernels and bootloader files should go in this dir. /dev This is a dir with virtual links to devices or device files. [Need examples of why anybody would go to /dev] /etc This is configuration central for Linux systems. It is here where passwords are kept, network configurations, job schedules, configurations for many applications and a host of other information is stored. The majority of the files in /etc are files you will never edit by hand. They are there for specific applications and you make changes through those applications. To modify some of these files by hand is to risk breaking your system if you do not know what you are doing. Hosts, hosts.allow, hosts.deny are kept here. If you have a network and do not have a DNS server you will likely want to edit these files. issue.net in Red Hat based systems such as Fedora this will provide the exact version of the Distro you are running. Resolv.conf will list the dns information you are using. fstab lists your mounts. Unfortunately it uses labels by default so df is a better way to see what is mounted where if you want to see what device is physically mapped to a given partition. To add a permanent mount point you add it to the fstab file. Here are some of the dirs you are more likely to encounter. /etc/X11 This is a dir you hope you never have to enter. X11 configuration files are not for the feint of heart. This is where you go to configure dual head, change monitor refresh rates if you change your monitor and to troubleshoot if X starts acting up. If you do not have a reason to edit these files then don't. /etc/cron.d /cron.hourly /cron.daily /cron.weekly /cron.monthly This is where your cron jobs are stored and run from. Usefull in debugging a cron script that is not running as desired or at all. It is also one of the first places to look if you feel you have been hacked. The .timeframe is how often the script in that dir will be run. Hourly for example will be run every hour. /etc/samba Most Samba configuration edits can be handled in the GUI today. Many people still hand edit the Samba configuration files. /etc/logrotate.d Where to add and change what logs are rotated and how often. /etc/yum It is often easier to edit these files using GUI apps such as gnome-yum. This is where information about your yum default behavior is contained. /etc/yum.repos.d Location of your yum repository information. Repositories may be listed in the yum.conf file or as a seperate file ending with the .repo extension. /etc/sysconfig This is the heart and soul of your system configuration files. Most of these files you will never edit by hand. /etc/sysconfig/network-scripts Networking central. /etc/xinetd.d This is where you enable, disable, add and remove services from the xinet.dservice. The format is a start up script with the name you wish to appear in the xinet.d service. Most scripts will contain a disable line that you change from yes to no if you have to hand edit them. /etc/xen Xen virtual machine configurations. /etc/httpd In rpm installs this is the nerve center of Apache. This is where you will go to create virtual servers, change the document root, create listeners, trouble shoot and other Apache admin functions. Many of these functions are not supported well or at all by GUIs. httpd.conf is the file you are most often going to edit. If you install Apache from a tarball rename this dir to something which clearly shows it is no longer the active Apache configuration file. Apache will put it's configuration files in a different place is you install from a tarball and the frustration of editing files here and confusion generated from having multiple Apache configuration files is just not worth it. You do want to potentially save the information if you were actively using the Apache server before installing the tarball version of it. There are also examples of things done by the rpm version you may want to incorporate into the tarball version even if you never ran Apache up to that point. So it is best to save this dir until you have Apache configured they way you wish. /etc/rc.d This dir contains what files are to be run automatically or as services in a given run level. Init.d being on boot up. Most workstations use runlevel 5 (/rc.d/rc5.d/), so that is where you will be looking most likely if you ever need to delve into this. Utilities such as chkconfig [link to chkconfig doc page] from the command line or the services utility [link to X run level editors] available to root in X are wrappers around these files. They are also far easier to use than hand editing these files. /etc/amanda Amanda is the most commonly used Unix back up client. Here is where you can modify what is backed up by Amanda and how often. /etc/snort Here you'll find the snort configuration options. Snort is primarily used as an IDS and it is highly recommended that you run Snort. /etc/cups It's tempting but just don't do it. Cups is a very tempermental application. Make modifications from the cups GUI not here. /etc/apt If you use the apt utilities rather than yum this is where you'll want to modify repositories to obtain apt-get packages. /etc/logwatch Logwatch is a utility for monitoring and analyzing log files. Here is where you modify your logwatches and actions based on them. /etc/ssh SSH is a secure means to replace both telnet and ftp. Unless you have no other choice, always use SSH/SCP. SSH is in general very secure. It is not immune to attacks. If you have no need to ssh into your machine take the service down. In the ssh dir you will find several configuration files. Here are changes that should be made on almost all systems immediately after install to the sshd_config file. #Protocol 2,1 Protocol 2 Make sure that only protocol 2 is supported. Never use protocol 1. It is insecure. You will get hacked if you leave the ssh daemon running and exposed it to the net with protocol 1 enabled. #PermitRootLogin yes Change this to PermitRootLogin no The exception being that sometimes control panel applications and other admin applications require root SSH logins to function. In all other cases turn this off. Instead ssh in as a user and then su to use root privileges. If you use an application which requires the ability to ssh in as root you can limit the ability to log in as root by IP or use keys as authentication to provide better security. X11Forwarding yes This is something you typically want to allow. Using this file you can also set up authorized keys, use PAM, Kerbos or other authentication methods, do port forwarding and a number of other options. If you use authorized keys you'll find your key files in this dir as well. They will be necessary if you want other machines to be able to log in to this machine using authorized keys. /home This is where user specific data except for the root account is stored. It is also often used as a catchall dir for downloads, installs and shared files. The structure will typically be /home/username the username being the only default place a user can store files except for /tmp. The primary purpose is to segregate user files from system files. This is done for security reasons and organizational reasons. It is also done to make it easy to set disk usage quotas on multiple user machines. The home dir is designed to keep user specific data and meant to be a private dir. Users should NEVER share files in their home dir or allow other users access to files in their home dir. Instead a shared dir or partition should be set up to facilitate sharing of files. In a user's home dir you will find files such as .bashrc which allows you to modify your Bash shell environment, .gnome and .kde where some gnome applications store logs and configuration information. Applications like instant messengers will store logs in a .appname dir such as .ymessenger .gaim or in places like .kde/shared/ksirc. This is where you will find conversation logs if you save such. These are the dirs to save if you want to keep your customizations to desktop and shell environments in moving to another machine or a new install that wipes out your home dir. This can include files like gnucash documents, bookmarks which are found in .mozilla/firefox/ and pretty much every other important user specific file. Files and dirs which start with a dot in front of them are hidden files. They are normally configuration files for various applications that you use and will be invisible except using ls -al or enabling the viewing of hidden files in GUI file managers. By default most compression utilities will not include these files in archives they build. So for backups you want to be sure to use switches that do include these files. The specific switches will be listed in that compression programs man page. /lib This is the home of shared libs and some applications. Mozilla for example in the past would install to /lib. Many of the entries in this dir are symbolic links. So to determine exactly what version of a lib is being used you often have to do an ls -al on the file to see where the link is pointing. /lost+found Here is where Fedora puts what it can find of files which get damaged in file system corruption. If your system reports an unclean file system and makes repairs here is where you can potentially recover lost files or pieces of them. There is a lost+found dir at the top dir of every partition. /media This is where Fedora by default mounts peripherals such as CDs, thumbdrives, floppy drives and such. The first place to look when adding a USB drive or mounting a CD is here unless you specified a different mount point. It is inadvisable to put any other kind of dir here. By default Fedora will not allow you to create dirs here. /misc Mostly unused dir today. Was in older distros heavily used for certain system files which have since been moved to other dirs. /mnt Most Distros still use the /mnt dir for what Fedora uses /media for. Some applications will still mount media here. It is also meant as a handy dir for admins to mount temporary devices. /net This is the traditional place to mount networked file systems such as shares from Windows machines and NFS mounts from other machines would be located. In practice many will attach them to the / dir or in their home dir. /opt This used to be where many third party applications were installed. Some applications still install here by default. Most have switched to using /usr/share or /usr/local in recent years. /proc Kernel and process virtual file system. These are representations of what is going on in the bowels of your system. A window into what is going on. /root This is the home dir of the root account. This is not located in /home so that if /home which should be on a seperate partition fills up the root account can still function. Other than that it is exactly like a user account in /home. /sbin Here are where many of the most crucial binaries in a linux system. Files in /sbin are normally files only used by the system or by for administration of the machine. /sbin also contains the files needed for booting the machine and utilities meant to be used only by in the administration of the machine. /srv Designed as a location for service specific data. /selinux This is dir for configurations and data related to selinux policies. /tmp Home for application specific data and lock files. If an application crashes and will not let you restart it, a good place to start is deleting files with that application name here. /usr The /usr structure is where user specific applications are installed. Many server applications will install here as well. /usr/bin Home for most user related binaries and utilities. /usr/include System wide include dir for use by both user written programs and system compiled applications. /usr/lib User based libs and shared objects. Not intended for executables but some wind up here anyway. /usr/share and /usr/local/share often but not always the same dir. In Fedora the default is for these two to be seperate dirs. This is for shared files system wide. For example /usr/share/wallpapers is meant to be a common place for wallpapers for use by all users and all window managers on a system. Most documentation and man pages can be found in the /usr/share or /usr/local/share dirs. Many applications will install to these dirs as well. If what you installed is not a server type app or a utility you will likely find it installed here or in your home dir. Many utilities are also installed here. /usr/src This is where source rpms live. The structure is devoted to storing and building source rpms. /usr/sbin The purpose of this dir is for non-essential Admin utilities and applications. /usr/local This is for applications specific to this machine. Which really has meaning only if other machines share a common dir such as /usr/sbin. Something done very rarely today. So the /usr/local/bin, sbin, lib and other dirs except for shared are typically not used today. /var This is one of the default places for many applications to install into which are not part of the distro. Databases, webservers, accounting packages and such often wind up here. /var/log This is where most system logs wind up. If your / partition is suddenly out of space and /home /var or /var/log are not on seperate partitions or if a seperate /var partition is suddenly out of space check /var/log. All Linux users should get comfortable with some of the files in /var/log. Some important files located here. dmesg is a crucial file in debugging boot problems. /var/log/httpd is where you'll find your Apache logs in an rpm distribution of Apache. mailog can be an important file. messages is where you find information from applications that don't have a specific log file. It is the catch all log file for your system and one you should check at least periodically to monitor system health and security. nessus, snort, rootkithunter and other IDS and security software will keep logs here. /var/log/samba is where to look for samba related logs. secure is if you have it enabled the place to look for attempts to hack into your machine. This is a file you should review often. /var/lock Designed to hold lock files. So it is another place to look for lock files. Some applications put them here instead of in /tmp. /var/crash If you have system dumps enabled you will generally find the results here. /var/lib Application specific location for libs. Most applications which install to /var will install libs specific to them in /var/lib. The redundancy of multiple lib dirs is a matter of segregation between the intended users of an application and it's related lib files. Many applications are no longer following this layout and putting lib files in /usr/lib or /lib instead. /var/games Rarely used dir specifically created for games. Most games install to /usr/local or to /var instead. /var/mail and /var/spool/mail This is the default home for sendmail and system mail messages. The basic structure is /var/mail/username the file will be the spool containing messages for that user. /var/spool/lpd Temporary location for spooled print jobs spawned by lpd. /var/tmp Location for temp files preserved between reboots. http://www.pathname.com/fhs/pub/fhs-2.3.html#PURPOSE3 -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: -------------- next part -------------- An embedded and charset-unspecified text was scrubbed... Name: draciron.asc URL: From draciron at gmail.com Fri Dec 8 07:43:37 2006 From: draciron at gmail.com (Dan Smith) Date: Fri, 8 Dec 2006 01:43:37 -0600 Subject: Few questions about the Admin Gude In-Reply-To: <457900E3.6050301@mkc.co.nz> References: <45767C05.6030009@mkc.co.nz> <1165441458.24009.264.camel@erato.phig.org> <457900E3.6050301@mkc.co.nz> Message-ID: I'd suggest including info about shared files/group security, how to set up shared file repositories. For many Linux users this can be a lesson in frustration but is a commonly needed task by many users. Other than that looks like you covered everything top level. On 12/8/06, Vladimir Kosovac wrote: > > Karsten Wade wrote: > > On Wed, 2006-12-06 at 21:15 +1300, Vladimir Kosovac wrote: > >> Hi people. > >> > >> I am about to start writing draft for Users/Accounts module of the > >> guide. Can anybody confirm whether I'm on the right track if module is > >> structured as per below: > >> > >> 1] Intro > > + - Briefly say what the entire chapter/section covers > >> - A bit about the general stuff (multi-user system, root vs > >> unprivileged accounts, etc.) > >> - Explanation of relevant files in /etc > >> - What happens in the background when adding/modifying > users/groups > >> 2] Managing users/groups using system-config-users > >> 3] " using command line utilities > >> 4] Password policies > >> 5] Additional documentation > >> > >> Does anything else needs covering? > > > > Other than that addition above, the list seems complete to me. I > > reviewed and lightly edited/reformatted that page, the work is good. > > > > Oh, is it worth mentioning or even just linking to SELinux > > documentation? Using su to switch users does not necessarily change the > > user's role, does it? > > > > Do you think it is worth covering permission escalation, e.g., su and > > sudo? > > > > There is content about sudo that we can pull as-is with updates into > > this guide. It is unpublished AFAICT, but the source is in CVS: > > > > http://cvs.fedora.redhat.com/lxr/docs/source/sudo-tutorial/ > > > http://cvs.fedora.redhat.com/lxr/docs/source/sudo-tutorial/en_US/sudo-tutorial.xml > > > > You can grab the module, which may not build as-is, by doing this: > > > > cd /path/to/local/CVS/sandbox > > export CVSROOT=:ext:@cvs.fedoraproject.org:/cvs/docs > > cvs -z3 co docs-common sudo-tutorial > > I have only anonymous access to > > CVSROOT=:pserver:anonymous at cvs.fedora.redhat.com:/cvs/docs > > Found sudo-tutorial draft there, written by Paul Frields and Tommy > Reynolds though. Are we talking about the same document? > > Vladimir > > > > I just tested, and this works: > > > > cd sudo-tutorial > > make html-en_US > > > > You can then copy/paste from the HTML into the Docs/Drafts/... Unless > > this belongs in someone else's module. :) In that case, they should use > > this content. :) :) > > > > - Karsten > > > > > > > -- > fedora-docs-list mailing list > fedora-docs-list at redhat.com > To unsubscribe: > https://www.redhat.com/mailman/listinfo/fedora-docs-list > > > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From kwade at redhat.com Fri Dec 8 08:27:03 2006 From: kwade at redhat.com (Karsten Wade) Date: Fri, 08 Dec 2006 00:27:03 -0800 Subject: comments on 'directory structure' In-Reply-To: <1165541002.28618.4.camel@localhost.localdomain> References: <20061207002153.23717.qmail@web57907.mail.re3.yahoo.com> <1165541002.28618.4.camel@localhost.localdomain> Message-ID: <1165566423.2414.29.camel@erato.phig.org> On Thu, 2006-12-07 at 20:23 -0500, Paul W. Frields wrote: > On Wed, 2006-12-06 at 16:21 -0800, Dimitrios Typaldos wrote: > > I would like to include some ideas/proposals that maybe could improve > > the Directory Structure: > [...snip...] > > Any comments positive or negative are welcome. > > Unfortunately, this is probably the wrong forum for such a discussion. > You could try fedora-devel-list instead, but be prepared for a strenuous > argument. Best of luck! Woah, there, partner! Dimitrios is asking about the section of the Fedora Administration Guide that discusses the directory structure: http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Docs/Drafts/AdministrationGuide/DirectoryStructure Confusing around here sometimes, isn't it? :D - Karsten -- Karsten Wade, RHCE, 108 Editor ^ Fedora Documentation Project Sr. Developer Relations Mgr. | fedoraproject.org/wiki/DocsProject quaid.108.redhat.com | gpg key: AD0E0C41 ////////////////////////////////// \\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\ -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: signature.asc Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 189 bytes Desc: This is a digitally signed message part URL: From kwade at redhat.com Fri Dec 8 08:32:16 2006 From: kwade at redhat.com (Karsten Wade) Date: Fri, 08 Dec 2006 00:32:16 -0800 Subject: comments on 'directory structure' In-Reply-To: <20061208013138.86448.qmail@web57910.mail.re3.yahoo.com> References: <20061208013138.86448.qmail@web57910.mail.re3.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <1165566736.2414.35.camel@erato.phig.org> On Thu, 2006-12-07 at 17:31 -0800, Dimitrios Typaldos wrote: > It seems properly that I have misinterpreted some previous sayings. I > had the idea that the pages under drafts are still under development > and not in a rather final phase. Could someone clarify this for me , > please just to get a solid idea of my tasks ? Just a misunderstanding, I think. When Paul read this: > > I would like to include some ideas/proposals that maybe could improve > > the Directory Structure: He didn't hear the implied wording, "... the Directory Structure chapter of the Administration Guide." It sounded like you were proposing a restructuring of the Fedora/Linux directory structure. :) - Karsten -- Karsten Wade, RHCE, 108 Editor ^ Fedora Documentation Project Sr. Developer Relations Mgr. | fedoraproject.org/wiki/DocsProject quaid.108.redhat.com | gpg key: AD0E0C41 ////////////////////////////////// \\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\ -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: signature.asc Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 189 bytes Desc: This is a digitally signed message part URL: From kwade at redhat.com Fri Dec 8 08:37:35 2006 From: kwade at redhat.com (Karsten Wade) Date: Fri, 08 Dec 2006 00:37:35 -0800 Subject: Dir structure rough text version call for feedback. In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <1165567055.2414.40.camel@erato.phig.org> On Fri, 2006-12-08 at 01:40 -0600, Dan Smith wrote: > I know I'm supposed to submit to the wiki but I am having a great deal > of trouble with it not recognizing my key. Still not sure why. I've > exported it. Then created a new one. You are welcome to come by #fedora-admin to get some help with account creation difficulties. They'll probably tell you to follow the directions, it will probably mysteriously start working, and the #fedora-admin mystique will continue. - Karsten -- Karsten Wade, RHCE, 108 Editor ^ Fedora Documentation Project Sr. Developer Relations Mgr. | fedoraproject.org/wiki/DocsProject quaid.108.redhat.com | gpg key: AD0E0C41 ////////////////////////////////// \\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\ -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: signature.asc Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 189 bytes Desc: This is a digitally signed message part URL: From sundaram at fedoraproject.org Fri Dec 8 08:40:00 2006 From: sundaram at fedoraproject.org (Rahul Sundaram) Date: Fri, 08 Dec 2006 14:10:00 +0530 Subject: Dir structure rough text version call for feedback. In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <457924E0.8080806@fedoraproject.org> Dan Smith wrote: > I know I'm supposed to submit to the wiki but I am having a great deal > of trouble with it not recognizing my key. Still not sure why. I've > exported it. Then created a new one. Anyway I've had this sitting around > for a couple weeks now ready and would like to get feedback on it and > hopefully get it submitted to the Wiki by somebody with edit writes > while I work on getting my account straitened out. Once I get reamed on > a couple of these for mistakes in style I'll have a very good idea of > what is and isn't wanted in documentation and can hopefully just submit > in a normal fashion by then. > Instead of restating large portions of what basically amounts to a description of the FHS, it would be much more useful to refer to FHS and then state the exceptions and more Fedora specific directories and files and describe them in more detail. We insist on following FHS as part of our packaging guidelines at http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Packaging/Guidelines#head-e1c5548cbbe551c7a43d375c524ab2ea0188557e . The exception with is libexecdir has also been submitted for inclusion in the next revision of FHS. So directories like /selinux and files like /etc/fedora-release etc should be documented better and the rest should left to FHS as the canonical description of the Fedora directory and filesystem structure. Rahul From kwade at redhat.com Fri Dec 8 08:43:11 2006 From: kwade at redhat.com (Karsten Wade) Date: Fri, 08 Dec 2006 00:43:11 -0800 Subject: Few questions about the Admin Gude In-Reply-To: <457900E3.6050301@mkc.co.nz> References: <45767C05.6030009@mkc.co.nz> <1165441458.24009.264.camel@erato.phig.org> <457900E3.6050301@mkc.co.nz> Message-ID: <1165567391.2414.44.camel@erato.phig.org> On Fri, 2006-12-08 at 19:06 +1300, Vladimir Kosovac wrote: > I have only anonymous access to > > CVSROOT=:pserver:anonymous at cvs.fedora.redhat.com:/cvs/docs That can be fixed. :) > Found sudo-tutorial draft there, written by Paul Frields and Tommy > Reynolds though. Are we talking about the same document? That's the one. - Karsten -- Karsten Wade, RHCE, 108 Editor ^ Fedora Documentation Project Sr. Developer Relations Mgr. | fedoraproject.org/wiki/DocsProject quaid.108.redhat.com | gpg key: AD0E0C41 ////////////////////////////////// \\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\ -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: signature.asc Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 189 bytes Desc: This is a digitally signed message part URL: From draciron at gmail.com Fri Dec 8 09:21:56 2006 From: draciron at gmail.com (Dan Smith) Date: Fri, 8 Dec 2006 03:21:56 -0600 Subject: Dir structure rough text version call for feedback. In-Reply-To: <457924E0.8080806@fedoraproject.org> References: <457924E0.8080806@fedoraproject.org> Message-ID: LOL... Well vnk_fd helped me out. I had 2 problems. The first was the gpg key was bad apparently. Wiping out the gpg dir in my home dir and creating a brand new key fixed that problem. The second was user stupidity. Mine that is. I didn't create the dsa public key :) I've sent back the user agreement. Now I just need approval and I should be able to edit. Rahul, thank you on the feedback. FHS? I documented based on default Fedora installs. The exceptions were purely commonly installed tarballs. I did not go into detail such as WHERE the files might be found. Only pointed out that they might be in a different place. That's what I was talking about style however. Whether such practical usage tips were appropriate for the document. Apache in particuler is probably more frequently installed by tarball than by rpm. One of the biggest driving factors is that when a patch comes out it can be days or weeks before an RPM comes out where the tarball is the official means of release. Tarballs also offer a great deal of customization not easy or possible with the current rpm configuration. So I thought it was important to document that. I will delve into more details about /etc/issue files. Any other areas I did not cover well or need more detail? On 12/8/06, Rahul Sundaram wrote: > > Dan Smith wrote: > > I know I'm supposed to submit to the wiki but I am having a great deal > > of trouble with it not recognizing my key. Still not sure why. I've > > exported it. Then created a new one. Anyway I've had this sitting around > > for a couple weeks now ready and would like to get feedback on it and > > hopefully get it submitted to the Wiki by somebody with edit writes > > while I work on getting my account straitened out. Once I get reamed on > > a couple of these for mistakes in style I'll have a very good idea of > > what is and isn't wanted in documentation and can hopefully just submit > > in a normal fashion by then. > > > > Instead of restating large portions of what basically amounts to a > description of the FHS, it would be much more useful to refer to FHS and > then state the exceptions and more Fedora specific directories and files > and describe them in more detail. > > We insist on following FHS as part of our packaging guidelines at > > http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Packaging/Guidelines#head-e1c5548cbbe551c7a43d375c524ab2ea0188557e > . The exception with is libexecdir has also been submitted for inclusion > in the next revision of FHS. So directories like /selinux and files like > /etc/fedora-release etc should be documented better and the rest should > left to FHS as the canonical description of the Fedora directory and > filesystem structure. > > Rahul > > -- > fedora-docs-list mailing list > fedora-docs-list at redhat.com > To unsubscribe: > https://www.redhat.com/mailman/listinfo/fedora-docs-list > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From sundaram at fedoraproject.org Fri Dec 8 09:29:13 2006 From: sundaram at fedoraproject.org (Rahul Sundaram) Date: Fri, 08 Dec 2006 14:59:13 +0530 Subject: Dir structure rough text version call for feedback. In-Reply-To: References: <457924E0.8080806@fedoraproject.org> Message-ID: <45793069.90106@fedoraproject.org> Dan Smith wrote: > Rahul, thank you on the feedback. FHS? I documented based on default > Fedora installs. Yes and that follows the FHS standard hierarchy at http://www.pathname.com/fhs/. For administrators, pointing to the standard and describing exceptionns would be much better. The exceptions were purely commonly installed tarballs. > I did not go into detail such as WHERE the files might be found. Only > pointed out that they might be in a different place. That's what I was > talking about style however. Whether such practical usage tips were > appropriate for the document. Apache in particuler is probably more > frequently installed by tarball than by rpm. One of the biggest driving > factors is that when a patch comes out it can be days or weeks before an > RPM comes out where the tarball is the official means of release. > Tarballs also offer a great deal of customization not easy or possible > with the current rpm configuration. So I thought it was important to > document that. Encouraging the usage of tarballs is generally a bad idea. It creates maintenance problems on security issues, upgrades etc. In general, for security issues or critical bugs, Fedora would prioritize provide a update within a few days. Even if customization is required, patching and rebuilding source RPMS is much better than sticking tarballs into the system. > I will delve into more details about /etc/issue files. Any other areas I > did not cover well or need more detail? There are similar documents elsewhere which could be referenced for ideas. Example, the filesystem guide at http://www.redhat.com/docs/manuals/enterprise/RHEL-5-manual/index.html Rahul From kwade at redhat.com Fri Dec 8 17:03:03 2006 From: kwade at redhat.com (Karsten Wade) Date: Fri, 08 Dec 2006 09:03:03 -0800 Subject: Self Introduction: Igor Miletic In-Reply-To: <4578F7A6.4000203@fedoraproject.org> References: <1165186962.12796.62.camel@LinuxFC6> <1165363434.24009.157.camel@erato.phig.org> <1165365804.7792.10.camel@LinuxFC6> <1165371955.24009.172.camel@erato.phig.org> <1165374720.7792.14.camel@LinuxFC6> <1165420524.24009.201.camel@erato.phig.org> <1165428909.7395.4.camel@LinuxFC6> <1165541274.28618.7.camel@localhost.localdomain> <1165554585.3676.3.camel@LinuxFC6> <4578F7A6.4000203@fedoraproject.org> Message-ID: <1165597383.2414.52.camel@erato.phig.org> On Fri, 2006-12-08 at 10:57 +0530, Rahul Sundaram wrote: > Igor Miletic wrote: > > >> I would stick with pup/pirut for now. That satisfies 90% of users' > >> needs. The extra features of yumex are really only interesting or > >> useful to a pool of people who already have expertise. As an example, > >> I've been using RPM packages for almost ten years and I rarely need to > >> use anything besides pup, pirut, or the occasional yum CLI myself. > >> > > > > Ok, then it is just pup and pirut too add. I think yum is covered well. > > For Pup, see http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/pup. You need to import and > rework that content into the guide. OPL++ and CLA++ Because of those, you can do as Rahul suggests, pull content from anywhere on fedoraproject.org. In some cases, coordinate with the maintainer of that page; you may be able to offer wordsmith fixes back and have that person be the canonical maintainer for the content in both locations (one drawing from the other). We'll have to look into ways to handle that. In the Wiki, one way is to have the child locations be [[Include(PageName)]] macros. The you literally maintain one location with multiple output locations on the Wiki. In this case, Igor, I think you are safe retiring the wiki/pup page and moving the content over permanently. You can leave a #REDIRECT NewPage/Name in the old page (just that in the body of the page makes it redirect to the new page). - Karsten -- Karsten Wade, RHCE, 108 Editor ^ Fedora Documentation Project Sr. Developer Relations Mgr. | fedoraproject.org/wiki/DocsProject quaid.108.redhat.com | gpg key: AD0E0C41 ////////////////////////////////// \\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\ -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: signature.asc Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 189 bytes Desc: This is a digitally signed message part URL: From dtfedora at yahoo.com Fri Dec 8 11:05:17 2006 From: dtfedora at yahoo.com (Dimitrios Typaldos) Date: Fri, 8 Dec 2006 03:05:17 -0800 (PST) Subject: comments on 'directory structure' Message-ID: <20061208110518.41320.qmail@web57908.mail.re3.yahoo.com> Aaahh, now I understand the point. Thanks. Dt o-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------o pub 1024D/6A7B898C 2006-11-16 Key fingerprint = F892 27EB 871A 3C16 B18E 3AD5 3A6A 3F77 6A7B 898C uid Dimitrios Typaldos (Encrypted) sub 2048g/4773BB57 2006-11-16 ----- Original Message ---- From: Karsten Wade To: For participants of the Documentation Project Sent: Friday, December 8, 2006 8:27:03 AM Subject: Re: comments on 'directory structure' On Thu, 2006-12-07 at 20:23 -0500, Paul W. Frields wrote: > On Wed, 2006-12-06 at 16:21 -0800, Dimitrios Typaldos wrote: > > I would like to include some ideas/proposals that maybe could improve > > the Directory Structure: > [...snip...] > > Any comments positive or negative are welcome. > > Unfortunately, this is probably the wrong forum for such a discussion. > You could try fedora-devel-list instead, but be prepared for a strenuous > argument. Best of luck! Woah, there, partner! Dimitrios is asking about the section of the Fedora Administration Guide that discusses the directory structure: http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Docs/Drafts/AdministrationGuide/DirectoryStructure Confusing around here sometimes, isn't it? :D - Karsten -- Karsten Wade, RHCE, 108 Editor ^ Fedora Documentation Project Sr. Developer Relations Mgr. | fedoraproject.org/wiki/DocsProject quaid.108.redhat.com | gpg key: AD0E0C41 ////////////////////////////////// \\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\ -- fedora-docs-list mailing list fedora-docs-list at redhat.com To unsubscribe: https://www.redhat.com/mailman/listinfo/fedora-docs-list __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around http://mail.yahoo.com From stickster at gmail.com Sat Dec 9 01:30:05 2006 From: stickster at gmail.com (Paul W. Frields) Date: Fri, 08 Dec 2006 20:30:05 -0500 Subject: comments on 'directory structure' In-Reply-To: <1165566423.2414.29.camel@erato.phig.org> References: <20061207002153.23717.qmail@web57907.mail.re3.yahoo.com> <1165541002.28618.4.camel@localhost.localdomain> <1165566423.2414.29.camel@erato.phig.org> Message-ID: <1165627805.31701.0.camel@localhost.localdomain> On Fri, 2006-12-08 at 00:27 -0800, Karsten Wade wrote: > On Thu, 2006-12-07 at 20:23 -0500, Paul W. Frields wrote: > > On Wed, 2006-12-06 at 16:21 -0800, Dimitrios Typaldos wrote: > > > I would like to include some ideas/proposals that maybe could improve > > > the Directory Structure: > > [...snip...] > > > Any comments positive or negative are welcome. > > > > Unfortunately, this is probably the wrong forum for such a discussion. > > You could try fedora-devel-list instead, but be prepared for a strenuous > > argument. Best of luck! > > Woah, there, partner! Dimitrios is asking about the section of the > Fedora Administration Guide that discusses the directory structure: > > http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Docs/Drafts/AdministrationGuide/DirectoryStructure > > Confusing around here sometimes, isn't it? :D No doubt. I haven't had time to look through much of the new drafts such as the AG, so apologies to all for sounding dismissive of the proposal. I now slink back into my hole to work on relnotes updates. :-) -- Paul W. Frields, RHCE http://paul.frields.org/ gpg fingerprint: 3DA6 A0AC 6D58 FEC4 0233 5906 ACDB C937 BD11 3717 Fedora Project Board: http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Board Fedora Docs Project: http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/DocsProject -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: signature.asc Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 189 bytes Desc: This is a digitally signed message part URL: From vnk at mkc.co.nz Sat Dec 9 07:28:30 2006 From: vnk at mkc.co.nz (Vladimir Kosovac) Date: Sat, 09 Dec 2006 20:28:30 +1300 Subject: Admin Guide / Accounts - call for feedback Message-ID: <457A659E.5090106@mkc.co.nz> Greetings, Motley Crew! I have couple of sandboxed pages ready for your review/input at: http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/wiki/VladimirKosovac/StylingPage/WorkPage As Karsten suggested, probably easier to review smaller chunks - thus this call. Of course, all suggestions are welcome and appreciated. Thanks | vnk | -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: signature.asc Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 251 bytes Desc: OpenPGP digital signature URL: From stickster at gmail.com Sat Dec 9 14:34:53 2006 From: stickster at gmail.com (Paul W. Frields) Date: Sat, 09 Dec 2006 09:34:53 -0500 Subject: CVS + XML Munch 'N' Learn, 2006-12-04 Message-ID: <1165674893.2957.3.camel@localhost.localdomain> This is the raw IRC log from our learning session last Monday. Just as a (very late) reminder, we're having another session today at 1500 UTC (10:00 a.m. US-Eastern). = = = For anyone who wants to join in -- you may benefit from doing the following, if you haven't already: su -c 'yum groupinstall "Authoring and Publishing"' su -c 'yum install gobby cvs' Give me 60 sec here.. OK Anyone within the sound of my voice... :-) installing the Authoring group, gobby and cvs are already there OK... Run gobby and connect to the following host: marilyn.frields.org stickster: How long are you thinking this will be? stickster: I want to take part but not sure if my wife has other plans for my time ~55 min. I have to be done by then for dinner :-) OK All righty then, horadrim, are you good to go? CVS is for revision control. Much like a public library, many people can check out, examine, play with, and check in materials. still running the yum update but should be ok 5-10 minutes for it to finish horadrim: OK, that shouldn't be a problem The normal cycle for CVS is this: 1. Check out one or more "modules" of {code,content,whatever} 2. Make changes in the local copy (on your computer) 3. Test changes (!!!) 4. Update to make sure your local copy is fresh 5. Commit changes to the repository If anyone has questions, just shout them out at any time A checkout is where you take a copy of what's in the repository onto a locally accessible disk (usually your hard disk) You can do whatever you want to this copy, and nothing changes in the remote repository until you "commit" those changes When you do an "update," you are asking the remote repository to send down any changes that may have happened since the last time you did an update In MOST cases, the changes are simply patched in to your local copy If the change is unresolvable -- for example, if you made a local change that is in conflict with an update from the repository, you get a warning from CVS During an update, you'll see letter codes next to each file that was changed -- a common code is "U" for something that has been successfully updated or "P" for something that has been updated with a simple patch But if you have an unresolvable conflict, you'll see the letter "C," which means you'll need to visit the file to see what happened. The changes that couldn't be resolved are bracketed by very visible <<<<<<< and >>>>>>>> lines I don't want to go too much further until we do a checkout BobJensen, horadrim: Does this make sense so far? yes yes Cool! Since everyone presumably has CVS installed, let's do a test. Run the following commands: cd && mkdir -p fedora/docs/ And: cd ~/fedora/docs/ Then do this: cvs -d :pserver:anonymous at cvs.fedoraproject.org:/cvs/docs co docs-common mirror-tutorial (that's one line, I don't know if the buffers handle it right) :-) it's ok It may take a little while for your system to download everything done here Excellent The "-d :pserver:...(blah)..." option is a method of connecting to the CVS server -- in this case, using an anonymous login. This connection method means you won't be able to commit any changes -- which is fine for now. The "co" is the CVS command we're running, short for "checkout" That's followed by the two modules we were choosing. If you didn't know what modules to use, you could try this: cvs -d :pserver:anonymous at cvs.fedoraproject.org:/cvs/docs co -c That would give you a list of all modules. It's actually in a tabular form -- the left-most entry is a module name, and following that is a list of any alias content. That's not very important, other than to note that it's possible for a CVS repository to give users a "shorthand" that allows them to check out a whole bunch of directories at once with a single module name *: Make sense so far? yup OK... let's look at the content of a module. Don't worry about "docs-common" for right now, although it's full of interesting things... for later :-) So do: cd ~/fedora/docs/mirror-tutorial horadrim: Did gobby finish installing? yes OK, go ahead and run it, and connect to hostname: marilyn.frields.org The default port should be correct Cool All right, I'm going to load up some documents in there as we go along. You'll have copies on your drive now for later reference. OK, I just loaded the "Makefile" file. There are only a couple things you need to write a new document from scratch -- this Makefile is one of them. If you decide to start working with DocBook in CVS, you can copy this file from an existing module and just make some minor changes. Everything will then work auto-magically :-) Everything behind a # is a comment, of course :-) Let's look at the important lines. They declare some settings, or variables, for use by the make command. (Oops, I should have made sure people installed "make" with yum, too. Well, do it now if you have time.) OK, back to the Makefile. The first variable, "DOCBASE", is the name for the parent (or main) XML file for your document. It's considered the Right Thing To Do to name your DOCBASE, your main XML file, and your module the same thing when possible Although you'll find a couple places where we've broken that rule :-) So here, what I'm telling our build tools is that my main XML document is called "mirror-tutorial.xml". You just leave off the ".xml" part. The next line "PRI_LANG" declares the _primary language_ for the document It's usually "en_US" for US English, but that is not a requirement *: OK so far? yes BobJensen is busy so I'll assume he's logging :-) OK, next line, "OTHERS", is where we define any other languages for this document that are to be built. i'll save the transcript ain any case horadrim: Thanks, I'll be posting it to f-docs-l as well Note that translations for these OTHERS don't happen magically -- translators have to come in and build "PO" files, which contain translations for all the strings (text) in the original XML document(s). So for a document that you're starting from scratch, this may well be blank, i.e. "OTHERS = " i know too well the L1ON world very good :-) I won't belabor that point then :-D OK, the next line, "DOC_ENTITIES" is where you note the name of any document-specific entity file. An "entity Oops An "entity" is basically somewhat like a "macro" in XML. It's a way of using a shorthand abbreviation where you mean some larger bit of text that you don't want to have to keep typing (or risk misspelling) over and over There are a few different kinds of entities, but the ones we use a lot look like this: &FED; They have an ampersand '&' in front and a semicolon ';' at the end They don't have to have an all-caps name, but it helps because it will be easy to see in the middle of other text In this example, &FED; is our entity that resolves to the word "Fedora" Similarly, &FC; ==> "Fedora Core" ok OK, so the point of all that is you can have entities that are very specific to your document, and keep them in a file whose name you put on this line, "DOC_ENTITIES" As you can see, I have such a file, "doc-entities.xml" (Again, leave out the ".xml" part) here DOC_ENTITIES just states doc-entities so should it be smtg like &FED; horadrim: It's a filename, so it means that I have a document-specific entities file called "doc-entities.xml" ok just populate a file and reference said file in there horadrim: Exactly We'll look at the file later Next is a part that looks a little scary, but it's not as bad as it seems All you need to do is add lines to the "XMLFILES-${1}" definition for any DocBook files which make up your document In this case I have only one. The ${1} is the scary looking part -- to make a long story short, it just means "insert language (directory) name here" Since this document's primary language is en_US, this means that the XML file list is only one file, "en_US/mirror-tutorial.xml" Note that ${1} == en_US , and ${DOCBASE} == mirror-tutorial You don't have to use the ${DOCBASE} variable here, you could just do this: (watch gobby) ok Using DOCBASE means that someone can copy this Makefile for any module with only one XML file named after the module, and it will Just Work(tm) :-) pretty regular use of a $VARIABLE Exactly So, the whole thing's in a template, which is why we're using ${1} -- it's a Makefile parameter that is used during build, meaning "insert language here" Finally, we have an "include" statement to grab all the goodies from our (much longer and more complicated) Makefile.common, which includes all the rules for building HTML, validation, etc.... On to the document, then, OK? indeed OK, how familiar are you with XML in general? (zero is a perfectly acceptable answer) generic idea...i also read the fedora mag extracts Awesome i am somwhat familiar with markup languages That's great... you'll find this pretty easy then i think i can pretty much go through easily OK, here's the 10,000m fly-over then :-) i'm sad i work with PErforce (SCM) and document management software The "rpm-info.xml" file is a requirement. It follows a DTD (you'll see the definition at the top of the file we have open) that's in the docs-common module you checked out If you're going to edit XML, you'll want to use an XML-aware editor -- there are many of them, some GUI, some text I prefer Emacs, as does Karsten (quaid); some prefer vi/Vim i tend to use Vi Others like Kate, or quanta, or...... etc Great as long as it does the job... actly. Oops... exactly. The thing about these editors is, they are XML-aware and will "validate" your entry fair enough They understand DTD's and if you use the appropriate keystrokes, they will make sure you don't put an illegal or invalid tag in your document in the wrong place This makes writing any XML file with a DTD much easier -- you don't really need to learn more than a few tags, because if you ever need another one, your editor will tell you what's legal to use in your current context The rpm-info.xml file is a good example. You don't really want to memorize the DTD; just use your editor, copy the first couple of lines from an existing rpm-info.xml file, and then let your editor do the hard work. don't worry...no intention of re-inventing the wheel OK, so this file is required. Notice I also opened the "doc-entities.xml" file, which is only required because my Makefile says I'm using it I think this should make a little sense... note for example, the definition for the &DOCDATE; entity In this case, it's defined as "2006-08-07" was indeed looking at this Note also the &DOCID; entity definition, which uses other entities we've defined here And keep in mind that we have a element to group entities together, but it's really up to you how you want to do that; we don't have rules, although I like to see the "Revision markings" in one group All right, moving on... The actual DocBook XML file (finally!) is in "mirror-tutorial.xml" You'll probably end up just copy/pasting the first 10 lines from an existing document, which is a perfect way to start And then, as we discussed earlier, let your editor do the hard work If you get lost while doing any of this, just shoot a question to the list or here in IRC makes sense...so you keep track of version/subversion by manually modifying the doc_entities then....then horadrim: Ah, that's the rub. There's actually two places we keep track of it -- which, yes, is stupid and we will try to change this You put it in the doc-entities.xml for use in the document itself, and also in the rpm-info.xml file in the section * stickster thinks we will need to cover the XML content in a second tutorial next week, if that's OK Don't feel you need to understand all of this yet yup it's fine stickster: we could make a regular tutorial time/place, rotate who is giving it, and dump the whole log to the world for edification :) quaid: nod I'll be posting this log to f-docs-l again like last time * quaid supposes we can recycle topics, too absolutely * quaid goes quiet again :) stop ruining the log horadrim: So, what I've given you was part CVS and part organization of a module you checked out do you have a mcro that makes sure doc_entitities and rpm_info are in sync re version/subver at build time? Good question! I don't think we do, but I know how to do it with some XSLT That's a great to-do item we probably need some kind of automated sanity check for this? Would you mind putting it in Bugzilla for me? You can log it to Product "Fedora Documentation", component "toolchain-devel" ok horadrim: Absolutely In fact, it would probably be best if we only tracked this in one place, come to think of it I think that's do-able, actually shame there is no auto-increment... Feel free to make that a wish list in your Bugzilla entry, it will help remind me lol deal! Actually, I have a "make clog" that will update rpm-info.xml, but it won't do anything useful to doc-entities.xml Oh, I remember why! It's because my documents are using a special &BUG-REPORTING; entity that fills in this information -- it's not technically required so that's why there's no automated tool to tie the two revision number tracking pieces together But that doesn't mean this doesn't merit a second look, so do file that BZ a sanity-check like that could probably mitigate the risk of human error...a simple warning would probably do Definitely horadrim: OK, so if you want to forge ahead, and you're sitting in ~/fedora/docs/mirror-tutorial, you can run "make help" to see some of the targets available There's a lot of them, and only some will work in this case The main ones are "make validate-xml" and "make html" if you want to see a couple things in action At this point, my advice is for you just to look at the XML files and try to understand small parts at a time Ask plenty of questions on the list, it will help everyone who lurks :-) don't worry, i'll have a play * stickster has to run to dinner Thanks for being a willing audience enjoy! and thanks for the tutorial it's kind of fun Looks like quaid is around, and he taught me most of what I know, so feel free to shoot him questions too * stickster bolts -- Paul W. Frields, RHCE http://paul.frields.org/ gpg fingerprint: 3DA6 A0AC 6D58 FEC4 0233 5906 ACDB C937 BD11 3717 Fedora Project Board: http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Board Fedora Docs Project: http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/DocsProject -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: signature.asc Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 189 bytes Desc: This is a digitally signed message part URL: From stickster at gmail.com Mon Dec 11 00:44:43 2006 From: stickster at gmail.com (Paul W. Frields) Date: Sun, 10 Dec 2006 19:44:43 -0500 Subject: Munch 'N' Learn - 2006-12-09 Message-ID: <1165797883.8498.4.camel@localhost.localdomain> Here's the raw log from Saturday's session. It was a trickle-in attendance for a variety of good reasons, so we didn't get to cover as much as we hoped. I would like to do another one soon -- votes for date and time accepted! = = = OK, on to XML... Have you both seen HTML, for example, by using Ctrl-U (view source) in Firefox? yes XML is just another markup language, and in fact it looks remarkably similar yes XML itself doesn't tell you what kind of tags (like or ) you can use -- HTML is actually more specific, because it's a document type unto itself ok XML is just a specification for marking up things. DocBook XML is a specific document type -- like HTML -- that is VERY widely used in the Linux world for documentation That is certainly true This is because it is plum full of incredibly useful ways to mark up your writing, so that you can tell a command-line instruction from an application name, or a procedure from an itemized list It was an XML document type written specifically for producing technical documentation If you want to write in XML -- ANY XML document type -- you should try to use an XML-aware editor ok There are many available, like Kate and Quanta for KDE, Conglomerate for GNOME, jEdit... many others. Many long-time command-line junkies use a text terminal style editor; Karsten and I both prefer Emacs, and Tommy and some other folks prefer vi It's a purely personal choice But using an XML-aware editor makes writing in DocBook (or any) XML *much, much easier.* Let's do a quick tutorial on some easy editing in Emacs as an example. Would that be OK? sure +1 OK, if you don't have it installed, get it with the Add/Remove Software tool. Otherwise, just start it up from your GUI menu, or type "emacs" at a terminal. Oh crap I forgot one other thing Quit emacs, sorry about that ok Do this: su -c 'yum install psgml' That's a great add-on package that's highly recommended for this next part! :-) Let me know when you're ready Once it's installed, just fire up Emacs again i'm running rpm -qa | grep psgml to see if it's installed jmbuser: You can actually just do "rpm -q psgml" which is usually faster it was already installed for me I'm installing it now,,, OK Obviously I can't teach all of Emacs in the time we have today, but I will teach you some "survival skills" with the understanding that we are focusing on the XML and not Emacs working... A very important key in Emacs is Ctrl-G (usually abbreviated as C-g in Emacs documentation) If you're stuck at a prompt and you don't know what to do, C-g will abort it The next most important keystroke is how to get out of Emacs, which is C-x C-c OK, everybody ready to start a document? yes sorry for my sloooowww connection - proceed and I'll catch up :-) no problem for me waiting a bit almost there jmbuser: It's OK, catch-up will be fast once you have the package Emacs (and most other editors like vi and such) are VERY customizable We haven't done any of that, so we'll manually tell Emacs that we are going to be writing an XML file First, hit Ctrl-x, Ctrl-f (C-x C-f), which means "open a file" The prompt at the bottom starts you off at your home directory "~/" Add to that a file name; in this case let's use "docbook-test.xml" Note that on the status bar, one line above the bottom, the new mode "SGML Fill" appears 1Q2w3e oops 10:39 * stickster hates it when he types passwords in IRC buffers too john looks away hurriedly \sorry I'm late guys had to go out installed psgml! Emacs has many "modes," which basically are ways of mapping keystrokes and other behavior in a special way for each type of file applications > programming emacs text editor jmbuser: +1 So for example, there's a C/C++ mode, a Python mode, etc.... vnk_fd: Make sure you have emacs and psgml packages installed, then open a file with Ctrl-x Ctrl-f Call the file "~/docbook-test.xml" and you'll be caught up SGML mode is... OK, but it's not exactly what we want Let's just tell Emacs that we want XML mode in particular sorry c-f, c-c gives me find file jmbuser: Ctrl-x, Ctrl-f Read carefully :-) Find file: is the right prompt though Just enter a new file's name and that is what opens that's what i meant Ah, very good then ok Hit Alt-x (which is abbreviated M-x in Emacs docs, the M stands for "Meta") M-x means "run this Emacs command" ok, done For the command, type "xml-mode" and hit Enter xml-mode Note that the mode has changed to the proper "XML Fill" mode ok Now, normally all this would be in a startup config file, and you wouldn't have to do it. But we're starting very fresh :-) So, for the first line of the document, type (or copy and paste) this: ok That's a very standard XML declaration that appears at the top of most XML files. It's like a "magic string" that tells lots of XML-aware programs and shell utilities what the file content is. Now, add this next line: (Copy and paste is a good idea) :-) works for me Once you hit "Enter" after the second line, some stuff may happen in Emacs, yes? A "Parsing prolog" prompt, probably wow I don't know if you'll see color, but I do here, maybe because of my particular configuration ended with fontifying done Disco +1 Let me tell you about a reference for you to read after we're done... red & green ok ok http://cvs.fedora.redhat.com/viewcvs/example-tutorial/en_US/example-tutorial2.xml?root=docs&rev=1.1&view=markup That's the start of a self-documenting DocBook XML file. If you read it later, it will likely answer a lot of beginner questions about why things look the way they do in a DocBook XML file. ok For now, let's just start our own document (Sorry, I keep getting phone calls) To insert an element, hit C-c C-e Notice that Emacs already knows the top-level element is an
Because we told it so in the DOCTYPE declaration Just hit Enter to confirm Notice that a big comment block appears, telling you all the things that are legal to use here yeah! There may be an even faster way to do this, but what I do is hit the following keys: Home, C-k C-k "kills" to the end of the current line, so it gets rid of that whole comment Don't worry, I'll show you how to get that list back in a more useful way done Hit C-c C-e again to "insert element" ok Now you get a prompt with nothing filled in, because there are many choices you can use If you hit the Tab key, you'll see a list Keep hitting Tab to scroll the list -- when you reach the end and keep hitting Tab, it starts over again at the top Once you see what you want, you can type the first few letters and hit Tab again for auto-completion Let's insert a title. Type "tit" and then hit Tab to complete works Notice logically what we are doing -- declaring a title for our article. Makes sense, right? sure Note that the cursor magically puts itself right where you need to type "My Test Article" (Without the quotes, sorry) Now hit the End key to move to the end of the line, and hit C-c C-e again to insert another element Tab will get you that magical list Let's just put in a paragraph, so type "para" (or "pa", Tab) to insert it ok Now type some stuff in the middle. Don't worry about anything except typing. Emacs will take care of wrapping and everything else for you. hi all. sorry for being late. glezos: np, but I am almost out of time stickster, if I can be of any help, just tell me. OK, does everyone have some information in their element now? yes ok ok To save and exit, you can either use the GUI menu if you're a loser (HAH! jk), or the following keys: C-x C-s to save the document And then (remember?) C-x C-c to quit Emacs Congratulations, you just wrote your first DocBook XML document! done cool fine Now, here's some stuff you can do to check your work. (Normally, you would do this inside Emacs, but we're trying to keep it simple for now.) Open a terminal We're going to "validate" our document -- that is, check that not only have we written correct XML (where every open has a closing ), but that it follows the DocBook specification properly We can use the xmllint command for this Type this command: xmllint --noout --valid docbook-test.xml You should get no output, which means your document is valid! yessiree valid here xmllint's normal method is to output the r" oops oops? xmllint's normal method is to output the result tree, i.e. your parsed document, but we don't want to see all that, just to know that it's valid got it valid (no outpout) Now let's turn that DocBook into HTML -- use this command: xmlto html docbook-test.xml You should get the following output: "Writing index.html for article" Then fire up your Web browser and point it at file:///home//index.html true (substitute your username) done nice Lookee there, we just built HTML out of our DocBook article! that's default docbook style? It's alive! The ONLY difference between what we all just did, and what FDP does with its toolchain, is a matter of document length, some stylesheets, and automation. The concepts are exactly the same. vnk_fd: correct ahhh ah get it - our styles are in docs-common in cvs? vnk_fd: Exactly!!! That's where all the pieces that do our specific building are too easy, just to learn tags, then Including XSL (XML Stylesheet Language) templates that alter the XML a bit on their way through the transformation process templates, you say? vnk_fd: That's all you have to do -- and most people only learn the 15-20 elements/tags they use all the time jmbuser: Yeah, XSL is cool but unfortunately I'm out of time for today stickster: thanks for the tutorial The reason we like XML so much over the wiki is that the wiki only has, what? like, ten or so tags you can use, total thanks very interesting lesson indeed DocBook has over a hundred, I think true stickster: as we go, should we send questions directly to you or to the list? vnk_fd: To the list, please ok ok vnk_fd: I will definitely answer anything I can, and it will help other people too o ..k all right sounds good Don't worry if you don't like or get the hang of Emacs... feel free to use what you want. I think Emacs rocks, but to each his own thanks again Use what makes you happy But definitely use DocBook! :-) All right, ciao everyone = = = -- Paul W. Frields, RHCE http://paul.frields.org/ gpg fingerprint: 3DA6 A0AC 6D58 FEC4 0233 5906 ACDB C937 BD11 3717 Fedora Project Board: http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Board Fedora Docs Project: http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/DocsProject -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: signature.asc Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 189 bytes Desc: This is a digitally signed message part URL: From sundaram at fedoraproject.org Mon Dec 11 07:22:09 2006 From: sundaram at fedoraproject.org (Rahul Sundaram) Date: Mon, 11 Dec 2006 12:52:09 +0530 Subject: Admin Guide / Accounts - call for feedback In-Reply-To: <457A659E.5090106@mkc.co.nz> References: <457A659E.5090106@mkc.co.nz> Message-ID: <457D0721.6010200@fedoraproject.org> Vladimir Kosovac wrote: > Greetings, Motley Crew! > > I have couple of sandboxed pages ready for your review/input at: > http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/wiki/VladimirKosovac/StylingPage/WorkPage > > As Karsten suggested, probably easier to review smaller chunks - thus > this call. Of course, all suggestions are welcome and appreciated. I would like to see how this section fits into the bigger guide. So using the drafts space seems to be better. Do we follow the style of exposing path and binary names anywhere as compared to highlighting the menu entries in the desktop? This section would be good as a reference. However a guide should cover tools from the administrative view point and not just lump all the system-config* tools in a single page. For example, if I am doing web services administrations, I would expect to learn about system-config-httpd in that section along with the Apache configuration details. Rahul From sundaram at fedoraproject.org Mon Dec 11 07:22:40 2006 From: sundaram at fedoraproject.org (Rahul Sundaram) Date: Mon, 11 Dec 2006 12:52:40 +0530 Subject: Admin Guide / Accounts - call for feedback In-Reply-To: <457A659E.5090106@mkc.co.nz> References: <457A659E.5090106@mkc.co.nz> Message-ID: <457D0740.70804@fedoraproject.org> Vladimir Kosovac wrote: > Greetings, Motley Crew! > > I have couple of sandboxed pages ready for your review/input at: > http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/wiki/VladimirKosovac/StylingPage/WorkPage > > As Karsten suggested, probably easier to review smaller chunks - thus > this call. Of course, all suggestions are welcome and appreciated. I would like to see how this section fits into the bigger guide. So using the drafts space seems to be better. Do we follow the style of exposing path and binary names anywhere as compared to highlighting the menu entries in the desktop? This section would be good as a reference. However a guide should cover tools from the administrative view point and not just lump all the system-config* tools in a single page. For example, if I am doing web services administration, I would expect to learn about system-config-httpd in that section along with the Apache configuration details. Rahul From vnk at mkc.co.nz Mon Dec 11 10:09:44 2006 From: vnk at mkc.co.nz (Vladimir Kosovac) Date: Mon, 11 Dec 2006 23:09:44 +1300 Subject: Admin Guide / Accounts - call for feedback In-Reply-To: <457D0721.6010200@fedoraproject.org> References: <457A659E.5090106@mkc.co.nz> <457D0721.6010200@fedoraproject.org> Message-ID: <457D2E68.2040600@mkc.co.nz> Rahul Sundaram wrote: > Vladimir Kosovac wrote: >> Greetings, Motley Crew! >> >> I have couple of sandboxed pages ready for your review/input at: >> http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/wiki/VladimirKosovac/StylingPage/WorkPage There was an error in that uri due to me placing extra `:wiki` path when creating pages. It's all fixed now, correct uri is: http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/VladimirKosovac/StylingPage/WorkPage Thanks to Thomas Chung for pointing this out. > > I would like to see how this section fits into the bigger guide. So > using the drafts space seems to be better. Most certainly. Due to large number of trial-and-error edits on my part, as I was learning the basics of the formatting, I thought it would be better to move this section elsewhere, so edit notifications annoy less people - only four subscribers in alternate location :o). I'm inclined to move these few pages back into Drafts, consistency wise it is much easier for everybody. Do we follow the style of > exposing path and binary names anywhere as compared to highlighting the > menu entries in the desktop? This section would be good as a reference. I couldn't find any "prior art" to refer to and thought this would be good idea from the practicality point of view. We are supposed to show that commands are run "su -c" way. However, /usr/sbin is not in normal user's path, so we'd have to write the full path to binary for the command to work. I got around this with admonition on how to alter $PATH and use only binary, two pages further down: http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/VladimirKosovac/StylingPage/WorkPage/AccountCreationProcess/CreateAccountTUI I'll keep going and if needed make style changes later on. | vnk | > However a guide should cover tools from the administrative view point > and not just lump all the system-config* tools in a single page. > For example, if I am doing web services administrations, I would expect > to learn about system-config-httpd in that section along with the Apache > configuration details. > > Rahul > -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: signature.asc Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 251 bytes Desc: OpenPGP digital signature URL: From jmbabich at gmail.com Mon Dec 11 11:32:55 2006 From: jmbabich at gmail.com (John Babich) Date: Mon, 11 Dec 2006 14:32:55 +0300 Subject: FW: follow-up on OSDL DTL Documentation Framework In-Reply-To: <9d2c731f0612070201t352d7ad3hc64a76ca3264915@mail.gmail.com> References: <1B47D24854C7BC4FA8DA28BEBB59B0BAF53D5A@orsmsx419.amr.corp.intel.com> <1165448347.24009.289.camel@erato.phig.org> <9d2c731f0612070201t352d7ad3hc64a76ca3264915@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <9d2c731f0612110332k1e482d2fmc7fcfe47f9e92c77@mail.gmail.com> > On 12/7/06, Karsten Wade wrote: > For Fedora folks, let's plan this meeting around my schedule first, and > I'll report out to Fedora folks who cannot attend. Based on our first > joint conversation, we'll see where to go next. > > - Karsten Any decision on the time for this meeting? John Babich From kwade at redhat.com Mon Dec 11 17:32:39 2006 From: kwade at redhat.com (Karsten Wade) Date: Mon, 11 Dec 2006 09:32:39 -0800 Subject: FW: follow-up on OSDL DTL Documentation Framework In-Reply-To: <9d2c731f0612110332k1e482d2fmc7fcfe47f9e92c77@mail.gmail.com> References: <1B47D24854C7BC4FA8DA28BEBB59B0BAF53D5A@orsmsx419.amr.corp.intel.com> <1165448347.24009.289.camel@erato.phig.org> <9d2c731f0612070201t352d7ad3hc64a76ca3264915@mail.gmail.com> <9d2c731f0612110332k1e482d2fmc7fcfe47f9e92c77@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <1165858359.2414.174.camel@erato.phig.org> On Mon, 2006-12-11 at 14:32 +0300, John Babich wrote: > > On 12/7/06, Karsten Wade wrote: > > For Fedora folks, let's plan this meeting around my schedule first, and > > I'll report out to Fedora folks who cannot attend. Based on our first > > joint conversation, we'll see where to go next. > > > > - Karsten > > Any decision on the time for this meeting? There was a follow-up from Waldo that I thought made it to the list: Let's do Tue Dec 12, 8am pacific / 17:00 Paris on #fedora-docs on irc.freenode.net See you then, Karsten -- Karsten Wade, RHCE, 108 Editor ^ Fedora Documentation Project Sr. Developer Relations Mgr. | fedoraproject.org/wiki/DocsProject quaid.108.redhat.com | gpg key: AD0E0C41 ////////////////////////////////// \\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\ -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: signature.asc Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 189 bytes Desc: This is a digitally signed message part URL: From jmbabich at gmail.com Mon Dec 11 18:43:47 2006 From: jmbabich at gmail.com (John Babich) Date: Mon, 11 Dec 2006 21:43:47 +0300 Subject: FW: follow-up on OSDL DTL Documentation Framework In-Reply-To: <1165858359.2414.174.camel@erato.phig.org> References: <1B47D24854C7BC4FA8DA28BEBB59B0BAF53D5A@orsmsx419.amr.corp.intel.com> <1165448347.24009.289.camel@erato.phig.org> <9d2c731f0612070201t352d7ad3hc64a76ca3264915@mail.gmail.com> <9d2c731f0612110332k1e482d2fmc7fcfe47f9e92c77@mail.gmail.com> <1165858359.2414.174.camel@erato.phig.org> Message-ID: <9d2c731f0612111043h7629fe93la813a291707792f2@mail.gmail.com> On 12/11/06, Karsten Wade wrote: > > There was a follow-up from Waldo that I thought made it to the list: > > Let's do > Tue Dec 12, 8am pacific / 17:00 Paris on #fedora-docs on > irc.freenode.net Karsten: I was expecting a confirmation from you on that time. I guess I just got it. :-) That time is good for me. John Babich From vnk at mkc.co.nz Tue Dec 12 03:42:50 2006 From: vnk at mkc.co.nz (Vladimir Kosovac) Date: Tue, 12 Dec 2006 16:42:50 +1300 Subject: Admin Guide / Accounts - call for feedback In-Reply-To: <457D2E68.2040600@mkc.co.nz> References: <457A659E.5090106@mkc.co.nz> <457D0721.6010200@fedoraproject.org> <457D2E68.2040600@mkc.co.nz> Message-ID: <457E253A.3070105@mkc.co.nz> Vladimir Kosovac wrote: > Rahul Sundaram wrote: >> Vladimir Kosovac wrote: >>> Greetings, Motley Crew! >>> >>> I have couple of sandboxed pages ready for your review/input at: >>> http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/wiki/VladimirKosovac/StylingPage/WorkPage > > There was an error in that uri due to me placing extra `:wiki` path when > creating pages. > It's all fixed now, correct uri is: > > http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/VladimirKosovac/StylingPage/WorkPage Hi list. User Accounts section is now moved back to Drafts. http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Docs/Drafts/AdministrationGuide/UserAccounts | vnk | > Thanks to Thomas Chung for pointing this out. > > >> I would like to see how this section fits into the bigger guide. So >> using the drafts space seems to be better. > > Most certainly. Due to large number of trial-and-error edits on my part, > as I was learning the basics of the formatting, I thought it would be > better to move this section elsewhere, so edit notifications annoy less > people - only four subscribers in alternate location :o). I'm inclined > to move these few pages back into Drafts, consistency wise it is much > easier for everybody. > > Do we follow the style of >> exposing path and binary names anywhere as compared to highlighting the >> menu entries in the desktop? This section would be good as a reference. > > I couldn't find any "prior art" to refer to and thought this would be > good idea from the practicality point of view. We are supposed to show > that commands are run "su -c" way. However, /usr/sbin is not in normal > user's path, so we'd have to write the full path to binary for the > command to work. I got around this with admonition on how to alter $PATH > and use only binary, two pages further down: > > http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/VladimirKosovac/StylingPage/WorkPage/AccountCreationProcess/CreateAccountTUI > > I'll keep going and if needed make style changes later on. > > | vnk | > >> However a guide should cover tools from the administrative view point >> and not just lump all the system-config* tools in a single page. > > >> For example, if I am doing web services administrations, I would expect >> to learn about system-config-httpd in that section along with the Apache >> configuration details. >> >> Rahul >> > > -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: signature.asc Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 251 bytes Desc: OpenPGP digital signature URL: From stickster at gmail.com Tue Dec 12 13:17:00 2006 From: stickster at gmail.com (Paul W. Frields) Date: Tue, 12 Dec 2006 08:17:00 -0500 Subject: Admin Guide / Accounts - call for feedback In-Reply-To: <457D0740.70804@fedoraproject.org> References: <457A659E.5090106@mkc.co.nz> <457D0740.70804@fedoraproject.org> Message-ID: <1165929420.12137.0.camel@localhost.localdomain> On Mon, 2006-12-11 at 12:52 +0530, Rahul Sundaram wrote: > Vladimir Kosovac wrote: > > Greetings, Motley Crew! > > > > I have couple of sandboxed pages ready for your review/input at: > > http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/wiki/VladimirKosovac/StylingPage/WorkPage > > > > As Karsten suggested, probably easier to review smaller chunks - thus > > this call. Of course, all suggestions are welcome and appreciated. > > I would like to see how this section fits into the bigger guide. So > using the drafts space seems to be better. Do we follow the style of > exposing path and binary names anywhere as compared to highlighting the > menu entries in the desktop? This section would be good as a reference. > However a guide should cover tools from the administrative view point > and not just lump all the system-config* tools in a single page. > > For example, if I am doing web services administration, I would expect > to learn about system-config-httpd in that section along with the Apache > configuration details. That's an excellent point Rahul makes -- that our documentation should be largely task-based. Relevant material should be lumped together where possible and logical. -- Paul W. Frields, RHCE http://paul.frields.org/ gpg fingerprint: 3DA6 A0AC 6D58 FEC4 0233 5906 ACDB C937 BD11 3717 Fedora Project Board: http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Board Fedora Docs Project: http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/DocsProject -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: signature.asc Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 189 bytes Desc: This is a digitally signed message part URL: From Tommy.Reynolds at MegaCoder.com Tue Dec 12 13:36:07 2006 From: Tommy.Reynolds at MegaCoder.com (Tommy Reynolds) Date: Tue, 12 Dec 2006 05:36:07 -0800 Subject: Admin Guide / Accounts - call for feedback In-Reply-To: <1165929420.12137.0.camel@localhost.localdomain> References: <457A659E.5090106@mkc.co.nz> <457D0740.70804@fedoraproject.org> <1165929420.12137.0.camel@localhost.localdomain> Message-ID: <20061212053607.f1ce29da.Tommy.Reynolds@MegaCoder.com> Uttered "Paul W. Frields" , spake thus: > On Mon, 2006-12-11 at 12:52 +0530, Rahul Sundaram wrote: > > Vladimir Kosovac wrote: > > > I have couple of sandboxed pages ready for your review/input at: > > > http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/wiki/VladimirKosovac/StylingPage/WorkPage > > For example, if I am doing web services administration, I would expect > > to learn about system-config-httpd in that section along with the Apache > > configuration details. > That's an excellent point Rahul makes -- that our documentation should > be largely task-based. Relevant material should be lumped together > where possible and logical. Agree emphatically. What I detest is "feature-oriented" documentation that mostly walks around the buttons and menus of a GUI, or is an elaborated bullet list of each separate feature (even if the elaboration runs to pages or chapters). I'm as guilty as anyone about doing this ("My name is Tommy. Chorus: Hi, Tommy!") but I'm recovering ;-) Every button / menu / feature / asset was designed into the program to provide a service, with a reason behind that decision. Document the problem solved by the feature, et. al., and not the implementation. Answer the question of "how do I foo", not the question "what do all these buttons mean?"; then the "what are all these dials and switches" question becomes moot. So, instead of this: o The FILE menu has an EXIT button. I'd prefer to see: o When you are finished, click the FILE/EXIT button to save all your work and to gracefully terminate the program. Just my $0.02e+27, YMMV. Cheers -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 189 bytes Desc: not available URL: From jmbabich at gmail.com Tue Dec 12 16:04:11 2006 From: jmbabich at gmail.com (John Babich) Date: Tue, 12 Dec 2006 19:04:11 +0300 Subject: Problem with freenode? Message-ID: <9d2c731f0612120804o148f9befgeb6ce9e818b51265@mail.gmail.com> Guys: Is there a problem connecting to irc.freenode.net? I've been trying for 15 minutes. Thanks, John Babich From kwade at redhat.com Tue Dec 12 16:10:37 2006 From: kwade at redhat.com (Karsten Wade) Date: Tue, 12 Dec 2006 08:10:37 -0800 Subject: FW: follow-up on OSDL DTL Documentation Framework In-Reply-To: <1B47D24854C7BC4FA8DA28BEBB59B0BAF53E1E@orsmsx419.amr.corp.intel.com> References: <1B47D24854C7BC4FA8DA28BEBB59B0BAF53E1E@orsmsx419.amr.corp.intel.com> Message-ID: <1165939838.2414.188.camel@erato.phig.org> On Wed, 2006-12-06 at 15:42 -0800, Bastian, Waldo wrote: > Let's do > Tue Dec 12, 8am pacific / 17:00 Paris on #fedora-docs on > irc.freenode.net Sorry I didn't send a general confirmation on this time, I understand if folks didn't put it on their calendars. No one has showed up at this time, and we can reschedule if we need to. :) ciao - Karsten -- Karsten Wade, RHCE, 108 Editor ^ Fedora Documentation Project Sr. Developer Relations Mgr. | fedoraproject.org/wiki/DocsProject quaid.108.redhat.com | gpg key: AD0E0C41 ////////////////////////////////// \\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\ -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: signature.asc Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 189 bytes Desc: This is a digitally signed message part URL: From stickster at gmail.com Tue Dec 12 22:45:21 2006 From: stickster at gmail.com (Paul W. Frields) Date: Tue, 12 Dec 2006 17:45:21 -0500 Subject: Admin Guide / Accounts - call for feedback In-Reply-To: <20061212053607.f1ce29da.Tommy.Reynolds@MegaCoder.com> References: <457A659E.5090106@mkc.co.nz> <457D0740.70804@fedoraproject.org> <1165929420.12137.0.camel@localhost.localdomain> <20061212053607.f1ce29da.Tommy.Reynolds@MegaCoder.com> Message-ID: <1165963521.15428.19.camel@localhost.localdomain> On Tue, 2006-12-12 at 05:36 -0800, Tommy Reynolds wrote: > Uttered "Paul W. Frields" , spake thus: > > > On Mon, 2006-12-11 at 12:52 +0530, Rahul Sundaram wrote: > > > Vladimir Kosovac wrote: > > > > I have couple of sandboxed pages ready for your review/input at: > > > > http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/wiki/VladimirKosovac/StylingPage/WorkPage > > > For example, if I am doing web services administration, I would expect > > > to learn about system-config-httpd in that section along with the Apache > > > configuration details. > > That's an excellent point Rahul makes -- that our documentation should > > be largely task-based. Relevant material should be lumped together > > where possible and logical. > > Agree emphatically. > > What I detest is "feature-oriented" documentation that mostly walks > around the buttons and menus of a GUI, or is an elaborated bullet > list of each separate feature (even if the elaboration runs to pages > or chapters). I'm as guilty as anyone about doing this ("My name > is Tommy. Chorus: Hi, Tommy!") but I'm recovering ;-) > > Every button / menu / feature / asset was designed into the program to > provide a service, with a reason behind that decision. Document the > problem solved by the feature, et. al., and not the implementation. > Answer the question of "how do I foo", not the question "what do all > these buttons mean?"; then the "what are all these dials and switches" > question becomes moot. > > So, instead of this: > > o The FILE menu has an EXIT button. > > I'd prefer to see: > > o When you are finished, click the FILE/EXIT button to > save all your work and to gracefully terminate the > program. > > Just my $0.02e+27, YMMV. Yessirree! To harp on something (yet again), note how important this makes defining your audience and their core knowledge, skills, and abilities: Without that thatinformation, you can't tell what your audience can't do without in terms of instruction. -- Paul W. Frields, RHCE http://paul.frields.org/ gpg fingerprint: 3DA6 A0AC 6D58 FEC4 0233 5906 ACDB C937 BD11 3717 Fedora Project Board: http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Board Fedora Docs Project: http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/DocsProject -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: signature.asc Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 189 bytes Desc: This is a digitally signed message part URL: From vnk at mkc.co.nz Wed Dec 13 06:33:53 2006 From: vnk at mkc.co.nz (Vladimir Kosovac) Date: Wed, 13 Dec 2006 19:33:53 +1300 Subject: Admin Guide / Accounts - call for feedback In-Reply-To: <1165963521.15428.19.camel@localhost.localdomain> References: <457A659E.5090106@mkc.co.nz> <457D0740.70804@fedoraproject.org> <1165929420.12137.0.camel@localhost.localdomain> <20061212053607.f1ce29da.Tommy.Reynolds@MegaCoder.com> <1165963521.15428.19.camel@localhost.localdomain> Message-ID: <457F9ED1.3090504@mkc.co.nz> Paul W. Frields wrote: > On Tue, 2006-12-12 at 05:36 -0800, Tommy Reynolds wrote: >> Uttered "Paul W. Frields" , spake thus: >> >>> On Mon, 2006-12-11 at 12:52 +0530, Rahul Sundaram wrote: >>>> Vladimir Kosovac wrote: >>>>> I have couple of sandboxed pages ready for your review/input at: >>>>> http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/wiki/VladimirKosovac/StylingPage/WorkPage >>>> For example, if I am doing web services administration, I would expect >>>> to learn about system-config-httpd in that section along with the Apache >>>> configuration details. >>> That's an excellent point Rahul makes -- that our documentation should >>> be largely task-based. Relevant material should be lumped together >>> where possible and logical. >> Agree emphatically. >> >> What I detest is "feature-oriented" documentation that mostly walks >> around the buttons and menus of a GUI, or is an elaborated bullet >> list of each separate feature (even if the elaboration runs to pages >> or chapters). I'm as guilty as anyone about doing this ("My name >> is Tommy. Chorus: Hi, Tommy!") but I'm recovering ;-) Am I understanding these suggestions well if I then say that tables on the intro page are redundant. To me, they look just like the stuff we want to avoid - feature listing for GUI tools - although more obscure. Scrap them, then? | vnk | >> Every button / menu / feature / asset was designed into the program to >> provide a service, with a reason behind that decision. Document the >> problem solved by the feature, et. al., and not the implementation. >> Answer the question of "how do I foo", not the question "what do all >> these buttons mean?"; then the "what are all these dials and switches" >> question becomes moot. >> >> So, instead of this: >> >> o The FILE menu has an EXIT button. >> >> I'd prefer to see: >> >> o When you are finished, click the FILE/EXIT button to >> save all your work and to gracefully terminate the >> program. >> >> Just my $0.02e+27, YMMV. > > Yessirree! To harp on something (yet again), note how important this > makes defining your audience and their core knowledge, skills, and > abilities: Without that thatinformation, you can't tell what your > audience can't do without in terms of instruction. > > -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: signature.asc Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 251 bytes Desc: OpenPGP digital signature URL: From sundaram at fedoraproject.org Wed Dec 13 08:58:43 2006 From: sundaram at fedoraproject.org (Rahul Sundaram) Date: Wed, 13 Dec 2006 14:28:43 +0530 Subject: Admin Guide / Accounts - call for feedback In-Reply-To: <457F9ED1.3090504@mkc.co.nz> References: <457A659E.5090106@mkc.co.nz> <457D0740.70804@fedoraproject.org> <1165929420.12137.0.camel@localhost.localdomain> <20061212053607.f1ce29da.Tommy.Reynolds@MegaCoder.com> <1165963521.15428.19.camel@localhost.localdomain> <457F9ED1.3090504@mkc.co.nz> Message-ID: <457FC0C3.1060805@fedoraproject.org> Vladimir Kosovac wrote: > Paul W. Frields wrote: >> On Tue, 2006-12-12 at 05:36 -0800, Tommy Reynolds wrote: >>> Uttered "Paul W. Frields" , spake thus: >>> >>>> On Mon, 2006-12-11 at 12:52 +0530, Rahul Sundaram wrote: >>>>> Vladimir Kosovac wrote: >>>>>> I have couple of sandboxed pages ready for your review/input at: >>>>>> http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/wiki/VladimirKosovac/StylingPage/WorkPage >>>>> For example, if I am doing web services administration, I would expect >>>>> to learn about system-config-httpd in that section along with the Apache >>>>> configuration details. >>>> That's an excellent point Rahul makes -- that our documentation should >>>> be largely task-based. Relevant material should be lumped together >>>> where possible and logical. >>> Agree emphatically. >>> >>> What I detest is "feature-oriented" documentation that mostly walks >>> around the buttons and menus of a GUI, or is an elaborated bullet >>> list of each separate feature (even if the elaboration runs to pages >>> or chapters). I'm as guilty as anyone about doing this ("My name >>> is Tommy. Chorus: Hi, Tommy!") but I'm recovering ;-) > > Am I understanding these suggestions well if I then say that tables on > the intro page are redundant. To me, they look just like the stuff we > want to avoid - feature listing for GUI tools - although more obscure. > Scrap them, then? Like I said, that kind of information is better for reference when you do want to know a complete listing of the system configuration tools. Move it as a addendum. Rahul From vnk at mkc.co.nz Wed Dec 13 09:59:49 2006 From: vnk at mkc.co.nz (Vladimir Kosovac) Date: Wed, 13 Dec 2006 22:59:49 +1300 Subject: Admin Guide / Accounts - call for feedback In-Reply-To: <457FC0C3.1060805@fedoraproject.org> References: <457A659E.5090106@mkc.co.nz> <457D0740.70804@fedoraproject.org> <1165929420.12137.0.camel@localhost.localdomain> <20061212053607.f1ce29da.Tommy.Reynolds@MegaCoder.com> <1165963521.15428.19.camel@localhost.localdomain> <457F9ED1.3090504@mkc.co.nz> <457FC0C3.1060805@fedoraproject.org> Message-ID: <457FCF15.7010104@mkc.co.nz> Rahul Sundaram wrote: > > Like I said, that kind of information is better for reference when you > do want to know a complete listing of the system configuration tools. > Move it as a addendum. > > Rahul > All done. Cheers, | vnk | -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: signature.asc Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 251 bytes Desc: OpenPGP digital signature URL: From pvrabec at redhat.com Wed Dec 13 16:05:56 2006 From: pvrabec at redhat.com (Peter Vrabec) Date: Wed, 13 Dec 2006 17:05:56 +0100 Subject: IPv6 documentation Message-ID: <20061213170556.559462ea@wrabco.redhat.usu> Hi folks. I wrote an IPv6 documentation and I'd like to place on fedora wiki. But I'm little bit confused of current process, so I'm asking for help. I really like to do it as easy as possible. My naive vision is that somebody tell me were I can place link to my documentation and I'll do it that way. Of course I appreciate any asistence with this, since I'm not very experienced in wiki. I have an account and I'm in edit group and I hope I have all other stuff for that :-) thnx. From sundaram at fedoraproject.org Wed Dec 13 16:49:02 2006 From: sundaram at fedoraproject.org (Rahul Sundaram) Date: Wed, 13 Dec 2006 22:19:02 +0530 Subject: IPv6 documentation In-Reply-To: <20061213170556.559462ea@wrabco.redhat.usu> References: <20061213170556.559462ea@wrabco.redhat.usu> Message-ID: <45802EFE.40104@fedoraproject.org> Peter Vrabec wrote: > Hi folks. > > I wrote an IPv6 documentation and I'd like to place on fedora wiki. > But I'm little bit confused of current process, so I'm asking for help. > I really like to do it as easy as possible. My naive vision is > that somebody tell me were I can place link to my documentation > and I'll do it that way. Of course I appreciate any asistence with > this, since I'm not very experienced in wiki. > > I have an account and I'm in edit group and I hope I have all other > stuff for that :-) If you are planning to write a longer published guide, place it at http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Docs/Drafts/. If you intend to keep it in the wiki might use the root namespace. Rahul From saratsethy at hotmail.com Thu Dec 14 05:15:42 2006 From: saratsethy at hotmail.com (Sarat sethy) Date: Thu, 14 Dec 2006 10:45:42 +0530 Subject: "Re: Contents of fedora-docs-list digest..." In-Reply-To: <20061213170031.C671A737B1@hormel.redhat.com> Message-ID: >From: fedora-docs-list-request at redhat.com >Reply-To: fedora-docs-list at redhat.com >To: fedora-docs-list at redhat.com >Subject: fedora-docs-list Digest, Vol 34, Issue 14 >Date: Wed, 13 Dec 2006 12:00:31 -0500 (EST) > >Send fedora-docs-list mailing list submissions to > fedora-docs-list at redhat.com > >To subscribe or unsubscribe via the World Wide Web, visit > https://www.redhat.com/mailman/listinfo/fedora-docs-list >or, via email, send a message with subject or body 'help' to > fedora-docs-list-request at redhat.com > >You can reach the person managing the list at > fedora-docs-list-owner at redhat.com > >When replying, please edit your Subject line so it is more specific >than "Re: Contents of fedora-docs-list digest..." > > >Today's Topics: > > 1. Re: Admin Guide / Accounts - call for feedback (Paul W. Frields) > 2. Re: Admin Guide / Accounts - call for feedback (Vladimir Kosovac) > 3. Re: Admin Guide / Accounts - call for feedback (Rahul Sundaram) > 4. Re: Admin Guide / Accounts - call for feedback (Vladimir Kosovac) > 5. IPv6 documentation (Peter Vrabec) > 6. Re: IPv6 documentation (Rahul Sundaram) > > >---------------------------------------------------------------------- > >Message: 1 >Date: Tue, 12 Dec 2006 17:45:21 -0500 >From: "Paul W. Frields" >Subject: Re: Admin Guide / Accounts - call for feedback >To: For participants of the Documentation Project > >Message-ID: <1165963521.15428.19.camel at localhost.localdomain> >Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" > >On Tue, 2006-12-12 at 05:36 -0800, Tommy Reynolds wrote: > > Uttered "Paul W. Frields" , spake thus: > > > > > On Mon, 2006-12-11 at 12:52 +0530, Rahul Sundaram wrote: > > > > Vladimir Kosovac wrote: > > > > > I have couple of sandboxed pages ready for your review/input at: > > > > > >http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/wiki/VladimirKosovac/StylingPage/WorkPage > > > > For example, if I am doing web services administration, I would >expect > > > > to learn about system-config-httpd in that section along with the >Apache > > > > configuration details. > > > That's an excellent point Rahul makes -- that our documentation should > > > be largely task-based. Relevant material should be lumped together > > > where possible and logical. > > > > Agree emphatically. > > > > What I detest is "feature-oriented" documentation that mostly walks > > around the buttons and menus of a GUI, or is an elaborated bullet > > list of each separate feature (even if the elaboration runs to pages > > or chapters). I'm as guilty as anyone about doing this ("My name > > is Tommy. Chorus: Hi, Tommy!") but I'm recovering ;-) > > > > Every button / menu / feature / asset was designed into the program to > > provide a service, with a reason behind that decision. Document the > > problem solved by the feature, et. al., and not the implementation. > > Answer the question of "how do I foo", not the question "what do all > > these buttons mean?"; then the "what are all these dials and switches" > > question becomes moot. > > > > So, instead of this: > > > > o The FILE menu has an EXIT button. > > > > I'd prefer to see: > > > > o When you are finished, click the FILE/EXIT button to > > save all your work and to gracefully terminate the > > program. > > > > Just my $0.02e+27, YMMV. > >Yessirree! To harp on something (yet again), note how important this >makes defining your audience and their core knowledge, skills, and >abilities: Without that thatinformation, you can't tell what your >audience can't do without in terms of instruction. > >-- >Paul W. Frields, RHCE http://paul.frields.org/ > gpg fingerprint: 3DA6 A0AC 6D58 FEC4 0233 5906 ACDB C937 BD11 3717 > Fedora Project Board: http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Board > Fedora Docs Project: http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/DocsProject >-------------- next part -------------- >A non-text attachment was scrubbed... >Name: not available >Type: application/pgp-signature >Size: 189 bytes >Desc: This is a digitally signed message part >Url : >https://www.redhat.com/archives/fedora-docs-list/attachments/20061212/d416166f/attachment.bin > >------------------------------ > >Message: 2 >Date: Wed, 13 Dec 2006 19:33:53 +1300 >From: Vladimir Kosovac >Subject: Re: Admin Guide / Accounts - call for feedback >To: For participants of the Documentation Project > >Message-ID: <457F9ED1.3090504 at mkc.co.nz> >Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" > >Paul W. Frields wrote: > > On Tue, 2006-12-12 at 05:36 -0800, Tommy Reynolds wrote: > >> Uttered "Paul W. Frields" , spake thus: > >> > >>> On Mon, 2006-12-11 at 12:52 +0530, Rahul Sundaram wrote: > >>>> Vladimir Kosovac wrote: > >>>>> I have couple of sandboxed pages ready for your review/input at: > >>>>> >http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/wiki/VladimirKosovac/StylingPage/WorkPage > >>>> For example, if I am doing web services administration, I would >expect > >>>> to learn about system-config-httpd in that section along with the >Apache > >>>> configuration details. > >>> That's an excellent point Rahul makes -- that our documentation should > >>> be largely task-based. Relevant material should be lumped together > >>> where possible and logical. > >> Agree emphatically. > >> > >> What I detest is "feature-oriented" documentation that mostly walks > >> around the buttons and menus of a GUI, or is an elaborated bullet > >> list of each separate feature (even if the elaboration runs to pages > >> or chapters). I'm as guilty as anyone about doing this ("My name > >> is Tommy. Chorus: Hi, Tommy!") but I'm recovering ;-) > >Am I understanding these suggestions well if I then say that tables on >the intro page are redundant. To me, they look just like the stuff we >want to avoid - feature listing for GUI tools - although more obscure. >Scrap them, then? > >| vnk | > > >> Every button / menu / feature / asset was designed into the program to > >> provide a service, with a reason behind that decision. Document the > >> problem solved by the feature, et. al., and not the implementation. > >> Answer the question of "how do I foo", not the question "what do all > >> these buttons mean?"; then the "what are all these dials and switches" > >> question becomes moot. > >> > >> So, instead of this: > >> > >> o The FILE menu has an EXIT button. > >> > >> I'd prefer to see: > >> > >> o When you are finished, click the FILE/EXIT button to > >> save all your work and to gracefully terminate the > >> program. > >> > >> Just my $0.02e+27, YMMV. > > > > Yessirree! To harp on something (yet again), note how important this > > makes defining your audience and their core knowledge, skills, and > > abilities: Without that thatinformation, you can't tell what your > > audience can't do without in terms of instruction. > > > > > > >-------------- next part -------------- >A non-text attachment was scrubbed... >Name: signature.asc >Type: application/pgp-signature >Size: 251 bytes >Desc: OpenPGP digital signature >Url : >https://www.redhat.com/archives/fedora-docs-list/attachments/20061213/0b1f0b5d/signature.bin > >------------------------------ > >Message: 3 >Date: Wed, 13 Dec 2006 14:28:43 +0530 >From: Rahul Sundaram >Subject: Re: Admin Guide / Accounts - call for feedback >To: For participants of the Documentation Project > >Message-ID: <457FC0C3.1060805 at fedoraproject.org> >Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed > >Vladimir Kosovac wrote: > > Paul W. Frields wrote: > >> On Tue, 2006-12-12 at 05:36 -0800, Tommy Reynolds wrote: > >>> Uttered "Paul W. Frields" , spake thus: > >>> > >>>> On Mon, 2006-12-11 at 12:52 +0530, Rahul Sundaram wrote: > >>>>> Vladimir Kosovac wrote: > >>>>>> I have couple of sandboxed pages ready for your review/input at: > >>>>>> >http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/wiki/VladimirKosovac/StylingPage/WorkPage > >>>>> For example, if I am doing web services administration, I would >expect > >>>>> to learn about system-config-httpd in that section along with the >Apache > >>>>> configuration details. > >>>> That's an excellent point Rahul makes -- that our documentation >should > >>>> be largely task-based. Relevant material should be lumped together > >>>> where possible and logical. > >>> Agree emphatically. > >>> > >>> What I detest is "feature-oriented" documentation that mostly walks > >>> around the buttons and menus of a GUI, or is an elaborated bullet > >>> list of each separate feature (even if the elaboration runs to pages > >>> or chapters). I'm as guilty as anyone about doing this ("My name > >>> is Tommy. Chorus: Hi, Tommy!") but I'm recovering ;-) > > > > Am I understanding these suggestions well if I then say that tables on > > the intro page are redundant. To me, they look just like the stuff we > > want to avoid - feature listing for GUI tools - although more obscure. > > Scrap them, then? > >Like I said, that kind of information is better for reference when you >do want to know a complete listing of the system configuration tools. >Move it as a addendum. > >Rahul > > > >------------------------------ > >Message: 4 >Date: Wed, 13 Dec 2006 22:59:49 +1300 >From: Vladimir Kosovac >Subject: Re: Admin Guide / Accounts - call for feedback >To: For participants of the Documentation Project > >Message-ID: <457FCF15.7010104 at mkc.co.nz> >Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" > >Rahul Sundaram wrote: > > > > Like I said, that kind of information is better for reference when you > > do want to know a complete listing of the system configuration tools. > > Move it as a addendum. > > > > Rahul > > > >All done. Cheers, > >| vnk | > >-------------- next part -------------- >A non-text attachment was scrubbed... >Name: signature.asc >Type: application/pgp-signature >Size: 251 bytes >Desc: OpenPGP digital signature >Url : >https://www.redhat.com/archives/fedora-docs-list/attachments/20061213/f81b0744/signature.bin > >------------------------------ > >Message: 5 >Date: Wed, 13 Dec 2006 17:05:56 +0100 >From: Peter Vrabec >Subject: IPv6 documentation >To: fedora-docs-list at redhat.com >Message-ID: <20061213170556.559462ea at wrabco.redhat.usu> >Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII > >Hi folks. > >I wrote an IPv6 documentation and I'd like to place on fedora wiki. >But I'm little bit confused of current process, so I'm asking for help. >I really like to do it as easy as possible. My naive vision is >that somebody tell me were I can place link to my documentation >and I'll do it that way. Of course I appreciate any asistence with >this, since I'm not very experienced in wiki. > >I have an account and I'm in edit group and I hope I have all other >stuff for that :-) > >thnx. > > > > > > > > > >------------------------------ > >Message: 6 >Date: Wed, 13 Dec 2006 22:19:02 +0530 >From: Rahul Sundaram >Subject: Re: IPv6 documentation >To: For participants of the Documentation Project > >Message-ID: <45802EFE.40104 at fedoraproject.org> >Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed > >Peter Vrabec wrote: > > Hi folks. > > > > I wrote an IPv6 documentation and I'd like to place on fedora wiki. > > But I'm little bit confused of current process, so I'm asking for help. > > I really like to do it as easy as possible. My naive vision is > > that somebody tell me were I can place link to my documentation > > and I'll do it that way. Of course I appreciate any asistence with > > this, since I'm not very experienced in wiki. > > > > I have an account and I'm in edit group and I hope I have all other > > stuff for that :-) > >If you are planning to write a longer published guide, place it at >http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Docs/Drafts/. If you intend to keep it in >the wiki might use the root namespace. > >Rahul > > > >------------------------------ > >-- >fedora-docs-list mailing list >fedora-docs-list at redhat.com >https://www.redhat.com/mailman/listinfo/fedora-docs-list > >End of fedora-docs-list Digest, Vol 34, Issue 14 >************************************************ _________________________________________________________________ Don't miss the latest sporting action! If it's happening, it must be on MSN Sports. Click to catch up! http://content.msn.co.in/Sports/Default From pvrabec at redhat.com Thu Dec 14 15:07:01 2006 From: pvrabec at redhat.com (Peter Vrabec) Date: Thu, 14 Dec 2006 16:07:01 +0100 Subject: IPv6 documentation In-Reply-To: <20061213170556.559462ea@wrabco.redhat.usu> References: <20061213170556.559462ea@wrabco.redhat.usu> Message-ID: <20061214160701.22c31935@wrabco.redhat.usu> Here we go: http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/IPv6Guide Do you have any idea where I can create link to this page? On Wed, 13 Dec 2006 17:05:56 +0100 Peter Vrabec wrote: > Hi folks. > > I wrote an IPv6 documentation and I'd like to place on fedora wiki. > But I'm little bit confused of current process, so I'm asking for > help. I really like to do it as easy as possible. My naive vision is > that somebody tell me were I can place link to my documentation > and I'll do it that way. Of course I appreciate any asistence with > this, since I'm not very experienced in wiki. > > I have an account and I'm in edit group and I hope I have all other > stuff for that :-) > > thnx. > > > > > > > From kwade at redhat.com Thu Dec 14 19:54:01 2006 From: kwade at redhat.com (Karsten Wade) Date: Thu, 14 Dec 2006 11:54:01 -0800 Subject: IPv6 documentation In-Reply-To: <45802EFE.40104@fedoraproject.org> References: <20061213170556.559462ea@wrabco.redhat.usu> <45802EFE.40104@fedoraproject.org> Message-ID: <1166126041.30044.71.camel@erato.phig.org> On Wed, 2006-12-13 at 22:19 +0530, Rahul Sundaram wrote: > If you are planning to write a longer published guide, place it at > http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Docs/Drafts/. If you intend to keep it in > the wiki might use the root namespace. Why not the Docs/ namespace? Documents should either be under a project namespace (SELinux/, Packaging/, etc.) or in the Docs/* namespace. Putting things with random names at the root namespace only makes them harder to find later. We could do a lot with categories, yes, but we haven't. - Karsten -- Karsten Wade, RHCE, 108 Editor ^ Fedora Documentation Project Sr. Developer Relations Mgr. | fedoraproject.org/wiki/DocsProject quaid.108.redhat.com | gpg key: AD0E0C41 ////////////////////////////////// \\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\ -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: signature.asc Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 189 bytes Desc: This is a digitally signed message part URL: From kwade at redhat.com Thu Dec 14 20:08:16 2006 From: kwade at redhat.com (Karsten Wade) Date: Thu, 14 Dec 2006 12:08:16 -0800 Subject: IPv6 documentation In-Reply-To: <20061214160701.22c31935@wrabco.redhat.usu> References: <20061213170556.559462ea@wrabco.redhat.usu> <20061214160701.22c31935@wrabco.redhat.usu> Message-ID: <1166126896.30044.79.camel@erato.phig.org> On Thu, 2006-12-14 at 16:07 +0100, Peter Vrabec wrote: > Here we go: > http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/IPv6Guide > > Do you have any idea where I can create link to this page? Well, you would have it link from Docs/, but we don't put anything there that hasn't followed the workflow to ensure quality, etc.[1] This is why I _don't_ recommend putting documents in the root namespace. If you want this to be a stand-alone document, then we should move it into Docs/Drafts/ and get people to read it there. When it is ready, copy it to Docs/ and make the Docs/Drafts/ space for working on the F*7 version. Sometimes we can fast-track a document by putting it directly in Docs/ and rapidly cleaning it up. But if there is not a hurry to publish a permanent URL that is from under Docs/ namespace, we should use the regular workflow. If you want this to be part of an IPv6 project, then that project needs to make a new namespace (such as fp.org/wiki/IPv6/) and then you can put the guide under there. [1] http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/DocsProject/WorkFlow - Karsten -- Karsten Wade, RHCE, 108 Editor ^ Fedora Documentation Project Sr. Developer Relations Mgr. | fedoraproject.org/wiki/DocsProject quaid.108.redhat.com | gpg key: AD0E0C41 ////////////////////////////////// \\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\ -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: signature.asc Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 189 bytes Desc: This is a digitally signed message part URL: From stickster at gmail.com Fri Dec 15 01:30:39 2006 From: stickster at gmail.com (Paul W. Frields) Date: Thu, 14 Dec 2006 20:30:39 -0500 Subject: Call for updates - Release Notes In-Reply-To: References: <456EB885.9080200@fedoralinks.org> <1164901584.28210.37.camel@localhost.localdomain> <456EFFDC.3090808@glezos.com> Message-ID: <1166146239.16425.10.camel@localhost.localdomain> On Thu, 2006-11-30 at 16:43 +0000, Milo? Komar?evi? wrote: > On 11/30/06, Dimitris Glezos wrote: > > O/H Lauri Nurmi ??????: > > > to, 2006-11-30 kello 04:55 -0600, Robert 'Bob' Jensen kirjoitti: > > >> In about 1 week we would like to push a snapshot of the release notes > > >> beats on the wiki to translation. If you have a beat on the wiki please > > >> try to get any updates completed by Dec 7 23:59 UTC. The snapshot should > > >> be going to Translation by Dec 9 23:59 UTC. Translations will be due > > >> back 10 days later (Dec 19 23:59 UTC) for packaging and publishing. > > > > > > If I have translated the parts of release-notes required by the browser > > > splash page, but nothing else, will my translation be packaged, and will > > > I see the browser splash page in my own language? > > > > There are some people currently looking into this. Basically, we'll try to > > separate the `po` file of the release notes from the other two because it's > > significantly bigger. Unfortunately, it's not a trivial task because it affects > > packaging, so I can't say if we will be able to do it at this time. If not, then > > the separation will have to wait for FC7. > > > > Are there any other translators that would like to translate the messages of > > "Browser Start page" and "System -> About Fedora" but don't have the > > time/resources to translate the Release notes? > > Yes please, this would be very much appreciated, as I already > mentioned on the list once. > > Serbian translation has had these parts (README, README-BURNING-ISOS, > About, homepage etc., everything except the huge RelNotes section) > ready for FC6. Unfortunately we just don't have the time and resources > to handle the big section in the few days between freeze and release, > and it doesn't make sense to work on it in the meantime since it will > change considerably. Sorry to be late to the thread here. I am starting with the homepage and moving these into separate modules. I'm confident this will work for an FC-6 update at some point (probably in January 2007), and we will use that model for release 7 and going forward. My plan is to modularize the following: release-notes - only that content from the Beats on the wiki readme - The standard descriptive README on CD/DVD #1 readme-burning-isos - Helpful information for the mirrors on burning CDs about - The "About Fedora" menu item homepage - The browser splash HTML page With the exception of "release-notes" (which already exists), I need someone to create these modules in i18n CVS for us to populate with POT once this work is done. (I have an account there with write access, but if some additional ACL is used, please allow me to write to these modules.) cc'ing the f-docs-l for informational purposes. -- Paul W. Frields, RHCE http://paul.frields.org/ gpg fingerprint: 3DA6 A0AC 6D58 FEC4 0233 5906 ACDB C937 BD11 3717 Fedora Project Board: http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Board Fedora Docs Project: http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/DocsProject -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: signature.asc Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 189 bytes Desc: This is a digitally signed message part URL: From pvrabec at redhat.com Fri Dec 15 11:08:24 2006 From: pvrabec at redhat.com (Peter Vrabec) Date: Fri, 15 Dec 2006 12:08:24 +0100 Subject: IPv6 documentation In-Reply-To: <1166126896.30044.79.camel@erato.phig.org> References: <20061213170556.559462ea@wrabco.redhat.usu> <20061214160701.22c31935@wrabco.redhat.usu> <1166126896.30044.79.camel@erato.phig.org> Message-ID: <20061215120824.78984997@wrabco.redhat.usu> On Thu, 14 Dec 2006 12:08:16 -0800 Karsten Wade wrote: > On Thu, 2006-12-14 at 16:07 +0100, Peter Vrabec wrote: > > Here we go: > > http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/IPv6Guide > > > > Do you have any idea where I can create link to this page? > > Well, you would have it link from Docs/, but we don't put anything > there that hasn't followed the workflow to ensure quality, etc.[1] > > This is why I _don't_ recommend putting documents in the root > namespace. > > If you want this to be a stand-alone document, then we should move it > into Docs/Drafts/ and get people to read it there. When it is ready, > copy it to Docs/ and make the Docs/Drafts/ space for working on the > F*7 version. So If I understand, we can move it to Docs/Drafts/ and find someone, who can approved it. After it's approved we move it to Docs/. Is this way, alright? > > Sometimes we can fast-track a document by putting it directly in Docs/ > and rapidly cleaning it up. But if there is not a hurry to publish a > permanent URL that is from under Docs/ namespace, we should use the > regular workflow. > > If you want this to be part of an IPv6 project, then that project > needs to make a new namespace (such as fp.org/wiki/IPv6/) and then > you can put the guide under there. > > [1] http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/DocsProject/WorkFlow > > - Karsten From tim at birdsnest.maths.tcd.ie Fri Dec 15 13:36:08 2006 From: tim at birdsnest.maths.tcd.ie (Timothy Murphy) Date: Fri, 15 Dec 2006 13:36:08 +0000 Subject: IPv6 documentation References: <20061213170556.559462ea@wrabco.redhat.usu> <20061214160701.22c31935@wrabco.redhat.usu> Message-ID: Peter Vrabec wrote: > Here we go: > http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/IPv6Guide Sorry to be negative, but I think this document needs quite a bit of polishing, at least if it is aimed at people like me ignorant of the details of ipv6. I'd suggest an introduction explaining more clearly what the aim of the exercise is. And who, roughly, is it intended for? Also some explanation of stateless vs stateful configuration. -- Timothy Murphy e-mail (<80k only): tim /at/ birdsnest.maths.tcd.ie tel: +353-86-2336090, +353-1-2842366 s-mail: School of Mathematics, Trinity College, Dublin 2, Ireland From dimitris at glezos.com Fri Dec 15 14:55:23 2006 From: dimitris at glezos.com (Dimitris Glezos) Date: Fri, 15 Dec 2006 14:55:23 +0000 Subject: Call for updates - Release Notes In-Reply-To: <1166146239.16425.10.camel@localhost.localdomain> References: <456EB885.9080200@fedoralinks.org> <1164901584.28210.37.camel@localhost.localdomain> <456EFFDC.3090808@glezos.com> <1166146239.16425.10.camel@localhost.localdomain> Message-ID: <4582B75B.9030802@glezos.com> O/H Paul W. Frields ??????: > On Thu, 2006-11-30 at 16:43 +0000, Milo? Komar?evi? wrote: >> On 11/30/06, Dimitris Glezos wrote: >>> O/H Lauri Nurmi ??????: >>>> to, 2006-11-30 kello 04:55 -0600, Robert 'Bob' Jensen kirjoitti: >>>>> In about 1 week we would like to push a snapshot of the release notes >>>>> beats on the wiki to translation. If you have a beat on the wiki please >>>>> try to get any updates completed by Dec 7 23:59 UTC. The snapshot should >>>>> be going to Translation by Dec 9 23:59 UTC. Translations will be due >>>>> back 10 days later (Dec 19 23:59 UTC) for packaging and publishing. >>>> If I have translated the parts of release-notes required by the browser >>>> splash page, but nothing else, will my translation be packaged, and will >>>> I see the browser splash page in my own language? >>> There are some people currently looking into this. Basically, we'll try to >>> separate the `po` file of the release notes from the other two because it's >>> significantly bigger. Unfortunately, it's not a trivial task because it affects >>> packaging, so I can't say if we will be able to do it at this time. If not, then >>> the separation will have to wait for FC7. >>> >>> Are there any other translators that would like to translate the messages of >>> "Browser Start page" and "System -> About Fedora" but don't have the >>> time/resources to translate the Release notes? >> Yes please, this would be very much appreciated, as I already >> mentioned on the list once. >> >> Serbian translation has had these parts (README, README-BURNING-ISOS, >> About, homepage etc., everything except the huge RelNotes section) >> ready for FC6. Unfortunately we just don't have the time and resources >> to handle the big section in the few days between freeze and release, >> and it doesn't make sense to work on it in the meantime since it will >> change considerably. > > Sorry to be late to the thread here. I am starting with the homepage > and moving these into separate modules. I'm confident this will work > for an FC-6 update at some point (probably in January 2007), and we will > use that model for release 7 and going forward. > > My plan is to modularize the following: > > release-notes - only that content from the Beats on the wiki > readme - The standard descriptive README on CD/DVD #1 > readme-burning-isos - Helpful information for the mirrors on burning CDs > about - The "About Fedora" menu item > homepage - The browser splash HTML page Paul, the separation seems sensible. Thanks for putting effort into this; I'm sure most of the translators will be happy to hear it. > With the exception of "release-notes" (which already exists), I need > someone to create these modules in i18n CVS for us to populate with POT > once this work is done. (I have an account there with write access, but > if some additional ACL is used, please allow me to write to these > modules.) It would save us a lot of time if some people from the Docs team could have access to the l10n tools directly, to avoid delays in the future. The less bottlenecks the better. -d -- Dimitris Glezos Jabber ID: glezos at jabber.org, GPG: 0xA5A04C3B http://dimitris.glezos.com/ "He who gives up functionality for ease of use loses both and deserves neither." (Anonymous) -- From notting at redhat.com Fri Dec 15 17:27:44 2006 From: notting at redhat.com (Bill Nottingham) Date: Fri, 15 Dec 2006 12:27:44 -0500 Subject: Call for updates - Release Notes In-Reply-To: <4582B75B.9030802@glezos.com> References: <456EB885.9080200@fedoralinks.org> <1164901584.28210.37.camel@localhost.localdomain> <456EFFDC.3090808@glezos.com> <1166146239.16425.10.camel@localhost.localdomain> <4582B75B.9030802@glezos.com> Message-ID: <20061215172744.GA28474@nostromo.devel.redhat.com> Dimitris Glezos (dimitris at glezos.com) said: > > My plan is to modularize the following: > > > > release-notes - only that content from the Beats on the wiki > > readme - The standard descriptive README on CD/DVD #1 > > readme-burning-isos - Helpful information for the mirrors on burning CDs > > about - The "About Fedora" menu item > > homepage - The browser splash HTML page Added. Bill From kwade at redhat.com Fri Dec 15 18:45:08 2006 From: kwade at redhat.com (Karsten Wade) Date: Fri, 15 Dec 2006 10:45:08 -0800 Subject: IPv6 documentation In-Reply-To: <20061215120824.78984997@wrabco.redhat.usu> References: <20061213170556.559462ea@wrabco.redhat.usu> <20061214160701.22c31935@wrabco.redhat.usu> <1166126896.30044.79.camel@erato.phig.org> <20061215120824.78984997@wrabco.redhat.usu> Message-ID: <1166208308.30044.98.camel@erato.phig.org> On Fri, 2006-12-15 at 12:08 +0100, Peter Vrabec wrote: > So If I understand, we can move it to Docs/Drafts/ and find someone, > who can approved it. After it's approved we move it to Docs/. > Is this way, alright? Essentially, yes. Putting it into the drafting area means we can make the kind of changes that e.g. Timothy Murphy just mentioned in his post. The reasoning is pretty simple. If we put up documents as "ready to read" and they are not really ready, that makes people discouraged who read it. They are not likely to come back later to see if it is improved. But showing someone a document in a clearly marked "Drafts" space means they know it is going to be unpolished, and they _will_ come back later to see the improvements. For editing, it would help if someone else with your knowledge of IPv6 (or more knowledge) can do a technical edit. This group will help with structure, language, etc. - Karsten -- Karsten Wade, RHCE, 108 Editor ^ Fedora Documentation Project Sr. Developer Relations Mgr. | fedoraproject.org/wiki/DocsProject quaid.108.redhat.com | gpg key: AD0E0C41 ////////////////////////////////// \\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\ -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: signature.asc Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 189 bytes Desc: This is a digitally signed message part URL: From jmbabich at gmail.com Mon Dec 18 16:58:00 2006 From: jmbabich at gmail.com (John Babich) Date: Mon, 18 Dec 2006 19:58:00 +0300 Subject: Test Case for Yum document Message-ID: <9d2c731f0612180858q26a81584i252d8086c2c9fa29@mail.gmail.com> Team Members: Here is a test case for updating the yum guide, "Managing Software with Yum". On web page http://fedora.redhat.com/docs/yum/en/sn-yum-proxy-server.html, there is a typo: The section: # The proxy server - proxy server:port number proxy=http://mycache.mydomain.com:3128 # The account details for yum connections proxy_username=yum-user proxy_password=qwerty should be: # The proxy server - proxy server:port number http_proxy=http://mycache.mydomain.com:3128 <== # The account details for yum connections proxy_username=yum-user proxy_password=qwerty (I found this out the hard way). The current approach is to file a bug report with bugzilla. Should we continue with this approach? Do we correct the wiki version instead and then apply the fixes to the DocBook version? The wiki page is located at http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Docs/Drafts/SoftwareManagementGuide/YumProxy This is a real example. I am in the process of documenting the work flow and really would like feedback on this. John Babich From kwade at redhat.com Mon Dec 18 20:37:08 2006 From: kwade at redhat.com (Karsten Wade) Date: Mon, 18 Dec 2006 12:37:08 -0800 Subject: Test Case for Yum document In-Reply-To: <9d2c731f0612180858q26a81584i252d8086c2c9fa29@mail.gmail.com> References: <9d2c731f0612180858q26a81584i252d8086c2c9fa29@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <1166474228.30044.229.camel@erato.phig.org> On Mon, 2006-12-18 at 19:58 +0300, John Babich wrote: > Team Members: > > Here is a test case for updating the yum guide, "Managing Software with Yum". [snip bug] > The current approach is to file a bug report with bugzilla. > Should we continue with this approach? Yes, although in this case you might skip that since you are involved as a maintainer for that guide. However, the value of using bugzilla extends to other people who find this bug, maybe in a mirror version or old copy. The existence of the bug report can be helpful in resolving that. > Do we correct the wiki version instead and then apply the > fixes to the DocBook version? The wiki page is located at > http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Docs/Drafts/SoftwareManagementGuide/YumProxy Once a bug has been filed, the writer researches the bug. Assuming a fix is required, the fix is applied to the *source*. Then the source is used to rebuild the document, which is published again. In the case of this guide, the source is XML in CVS. For the release notes, the source is the Wiki. *However*, because of the complexity and lossiness of conversion from the Wiki, for the release notes we are fixing it in the Wiki _and_ manually fixing the same spot in the XML. I think we would all agree that if you find a bug in your own work, or in a work you are a permitted contributor for, you don't need to file the bug. The only reason to file is if you need a conversation (on record) with people about a fix, etc. For example, the correction in the documentation might be a poor fix where the application in question really needs to be fixed. So, you might start up a bug report about the problem in the document, drag in the application maintainer, and then eventually reassign the bug to that person to fix in the application. Then they can reassign the bug back to the writer to note the fix in the documentation. Clear as mud? > This is a real example. I am in the process of documenting the > work flow and really would like feedback on this. Go ahead and roll it out as you come up with it (http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/DocsProject/WorkFlow) and we'll watch to see if there are any missing pieces in the workflow. - Karsten -- Karsten Wade, RHCE, 108 Editor ^ Fedora Documentation Project Sr. Developer Relations Mgr. | fedoraproject.org/wiki/DocsProject quaid.108.redhat.com | gpg key: AD0E0C41 ////////////////////////////////// \\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\ -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: signature.asc Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 189 bytes Desc: This is a digitally signed message part URL: From kwade at redhat.com Tue Dec 19 00:10:49 2006 From: kwade at redhat.com (Karsten Wade) Date: Mon, 18 Dec 2006 16:10:49 -0800 Subject: FDSCo meeting cancelled for 19-Dec-2006 Message-ID: <1166487050.30044.261.camel@erato.phig.org> We're canceling tomorrow's steering committee meeting. Most of us aren't going to be available. :) Is anyone going to be around on 26 Dec. for the next meeting slot? As for time, we are still up in the air about that. I'm thinking we can pick 1800 PST/2100 EST/0200 UTC? - Karsten -- Karsten Wade, RHCE, 108 Editor ^ Fedora Documentation Project Sr. Developer Relations Mgr. | fedoraproject.org/wiki/DocsProject quaid.108.redhat.com | gpg key: AD0E0C41 ////////////////////////////////// \\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\ -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: signature.asc Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 189 bytes Desc: This is a digitally signed message part URL: From stickster at gmail.com Mon Dec 18 22:39:37 2006 From: stickster at gmail.com (Paul W. Frields) Date: Mon, 18 Dec 2006 17:39:37 -0500 Subject: Test Case for Yum document In-Reply-To: <9d2c731f0612180858q26a81584i252d8086c2c9fa29@mail.gmail.com> References: <9d2c731f0612180858q26a81584i252d8086c2c9fa29@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <1166481577.26250.10.camel@localhost.localdomain> On Mon, 2006-12-18 at 19:58 +0300, John Babich wrote: > Team Members: > > Here is a test case for updating the yum guide, "Managing Software with Yum". > > On web page http://fedora.redhat.com/docs/yum/en/sn-yum-proxy-server.html, > there is a typo: > > The section: > > # The proxy server - proxy server:port number > proxy=http://mycache.mydomain.com:3128 > # The account details for yum connections > proxy_username=yum-user > proxy_password=qwerty > > should be: > > # The proxy server - proxy server:port number > http_proxy=http://mycache.mydomain.com:3128 <== > # The account details for yum connections > proxy_username=yum-user > proxy_password=qwerty > > (I found this out the hard way). What, exactly, did you experience or observe? I have the first usage in my /etc/yum.conf and it works. I just did a "yum clean all" and everything worked as expected with my squid proxy. (I am tunneling it through SSH, but that shouldn't matter in this case.) A quick glance at /usr/lib/python2.4/site-packages/yum/config.py and /usr/lib/python2.4/site-packages/yum/yumRepo.py says this usage is more complicated. You may be able to use a different proxy for each protocol, but "proxy=" is a perfectly valid usage. > The current approach is to file a bug report with bugzilla. > Should we continue with this approach? > > Do we correct the wiki version instead and then apply the > fixes to the DocBook version? The wiki page is located at > http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Docs/Drafts/SoftwareManagementGuide/YumProxy > > This is a real example. I am in the process of documenting the > work flow and really would like feedback on this. I would advocate further investigation before you file this one. :-) Happy to help if I can! -- Paul W. Frields, RHCE http://paul.frields.org/ gpg fingerprint: 3DA6 A0AC 6D58 FEC4 0233 5906 ACDB C937 BD11 3717 Fedora Project Board: http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Board Fedora Docs Project: http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/DocsProject -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: signature.asc Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 189 bytes Desc: This is a digitally signed message part URL: From jmbabich at gmail.com Tue Dec 19 05:48:48 2006 From: jmbabich at gmail.com (John Babich) Date: Tue, 19 Dec 2006 08:48:48 +0300 Subject: Test Case for Yum document In-Reply-To: <1166481577.26250.10.camel@localhost.localdomain> References: <9d2c731f0612180858q26a81584i252d8086c2c9fa29@mail.gmail.com> <1166481577.26250.10.camel@localhost.localdomain> Message-ID: <9d2c731f0612182148o6e693743sb2c45ebe9c5b4c2b@mail.gmail.com> On 12/19/06, Paul W. Frields wrote: > What, exactly, did you experience or observe? I have the first usage in > my /etc/yum.conf and it works. I just did a "yum clean all" and > everything worked as expected with my squid proxy. (I am tunneling it > through SSH, but that shouldn't matter in this case.) > This is where it gets tricky. I guess the good thing about filing a bug report is that, if done correctly, the filer should verify the bug and explain the context in as much detail as possible. Suffice it to say that, in my situation, I required http_proxy for doing basic authentication with my ISP. It may work differently in your setup, or I may have changed the initial conditions by already having exported http_proxy in my session. I will go back and verify the facts before I change anything. Thanks for the replies. John Babich From kwade at redhat.com Tue Dec 19 15:43:08 2006 From: kwade at redhat.com (Karsten Wade) Date: Tue, 19 Dec 2006 07:43:08 -0800 Subject: Test Case for Yum document In-Reply-To: <9d2c731f0612182148o6e693743sb2c45ebe9c5b4c2b@mail.gmail.com> References: <9d2c731f0612180858q26a81584i252d8086c2c9fa29@mail.gmail.com> <1166481577.26250.10.camel@localhost.localdomain> <9d2c731f0612182148o6e693743sb2c45ebe9c5b4c2b@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <1166542989.30044.272.camel@erato.phig.org> On Tue, 2006-12-19 at 08:48 +0300, John Babich wrote: > On 12/19/06, Paul W. Frields wrote: > > > What, exactly, did you experience or observe? I have the first usage in > > my /etc/yum.conf and it works. I just did a "yum clean all" and > > everything worked as expected with my squid proxy. (I am tunneling it > > through SSH, but that shouldn't matter in this case.) > > > This is where it gets tricky. I guess the good thing about filing a bug report > is that, if done correctly, the filer should verify the bug and explain the > context in as much detail as possible. Yes, to the meta-point in this discussion, this is the advantage of filing a bug report. We could add the yum developer to resolve the question, for example. Attach patches of suggested fixes, such as admonition that covers your situation. Etc. But how do we cover this in the case of e.g. one writer and another needing to discuss and dispute technical content? Our workflow should allow for informal channels of discussion, and give some suggestions about when to break out of informality into something more formal (difficult to use) but useful (can drag in more people). Also, informal discussions should probably happen on-list, so we all benefit/critique. - Karsten -- Karsten Wade, RHCE, 108 Editor ^ Fedora Documentation Project Sr. Developer Relations Mgr. | fedoraproject.org/wiki/DocsProject quaid.108.redhat.com | gpg key: AD0E0C41 ////////////////////////////////// \\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\ -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: signature.asc Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 189 bytes Desc: This is a digitally signed message part URL: From bobygerm at gmail.com Tue Dec 19 22:18:51 2006 From: bobygerm at gmail.com (Robert Auger) Date: Tue, 19 Dec 2006 23:18:51 +0100 Subject: Self-Introduction: Robert Auger Message-ID: <1166566731.3162.6.camel@stgerm.localdomain> * Full legal name : Robert Auger * City, Country : St Germain en Laye (78), France, Europe * Profession or Student status : IT Infrastructure Consultant * Company : SOGETI France * Your goals in the Fedora Project * Contribute, if possible and if I can to the ?end-user? documentation * Work as a french translator * Edit for grammar/writing and/or technical accuracy, if I can * Historical qualifications * I work as an information systems architect for a large consulting company in France * GPG KEYID and fingerprint [bobygerm at stgerm ~]$ gpg --fingerprint C06207CB pub 1024D/C06207CB 2006-12-08 Empreinte de la cl? = 2472 DB41 22B9 50B9 5BFE 3948 BA81 1B1D C062 07CB uid Robert Auger sub 1024g/96EB41D9 2006-12-08 -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: signature.asc Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 189 bytes Desc: Ceci est une partie de message num?riquement sign?e URL: From dutko.adam at gmail.com Wed Dec 20 03:41:54 2006 From: dutko.adam at gmail.com (Adam Dutko) Date: Tue, 19 Dec 2006 22:41:54 -0500 Subject: docbook/wiki tutorial Message-ID: Paul, Do you think you can schedule a wiki/docbook tutorial session for sometime in the evening next week? Maybe on Wednesday or Thursday night around 7PM EST? -Adam -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From stickster at gmail.com Wed Dec 20 13:15:40 2006 From: stickster at gmail.com (Paul W. Frields) Date: Wed, 20 Dec 2006 08:15:40 -0500 Subject: docbook/wiki tutorial In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <1166620540.25336.10.camel@localhost.localdomain> On Tue, 2006-12-19 at 22:41 -0500, Adam Dutko wrote: > Paul, > > Do you think you can schedule a wiki/docbook tutorial session for > sometime in the evening next week? Maybe on Wednesday or Thursday > night around 7PM EST? It would be easier for me to do about 8:15-8:30pm -- I usually help put the kids to bed between 7:30 and then. Would this be a problem? By the way, I am planning to provide some DocBook/XML/CVS training at the FUDCon in February. If you haven't seen it already, visit http://barcamp.org/FudconBoston2007 for more information. -- Paul W. Frields, RHCE http://paul.frields.org/ gpg fingerprint: 3DA6 A0AC 6D58 FEC4 0233 5906 ACDB C937 BD11 3717 Fedora Project Board: http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Board Fedora Docs Project: http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/DocsProject -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: signature.asc Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 189 bytes Desc: This is a digitally signed message part URL: From vnk at mkc.co.nz Thu Dec 21 07:42:49 2006 From: vnk at mkc.co.nz (Vladimir Kosovac) Date: Thu, 21 Dec 2006 20:42:49 +1300 Subject: Admin Guide - Accounts Message-ID: <458A3AF9.8020909@mkc.co.nz> Hi list. http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Docs/Drafts/AdministrationGuide/UserAccounts is pretty much finished content wise, I think and it would be good if someone can go over it and suggest improvements. I am now planning to start on the concept of Permissions section of the guide. Are we in agreement that access controls should be moved to SELinux guide? Thanks, Vladimir -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: signature.asc Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 251 bytes Desc: OpenPGP digital signature URL: From sundaram at fedoraproject.org Thu Dec 21 21:02:59 2006 From: sundaram at fedoraproject.org (Rahul Sundaram) Date: Fri, 22 Dec 2006 02:32:59 +0530 Subject: Admin Guide - Accounts In-Reply-To: <458A3AF9.8020909@mkc.co.nz> References: <458A3AF9.8020909@mkc.co.nz> Message-ID: <458AF683.9090700@fedoraproject.org> Vladimir Kosovac wrote: > Hi list. > > http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Docs/Drafts/AdministrationGuide/UserAccounts > > is pretty much finished content wise, I think and it would be good if > someone can go over it and suggest improvements. > > I am now planning to start on the concept of Permissions section of the > guide. Are we in agreement that access controls should be moved to > SELinux guide? Yes. Administration guide can cover primarily system and network configuration(including all /etc/sysconfig files), tools, monitoring and filesystem information. Security guide can cover general security information, access control, authentication, SELinux and other details. Rahul From mcgiwer at fedoraproject.org Tue Dec 26 08:12:34 2006 From: mcgiwer at fedoraproject.org (Pawel Sadowski) Date: Tue, 26 Dec 2006 09:12:34 +0100 Subject: Missing ln-legalnotice file In-Reply-To: <1162829086.27328.300.camel@erato.phig.org> References: <1162397891.5043.5.camel@redhat> <1162829086.27328.300.camel@erato.phig.org> Message-ID: <1167120754.5221.5.camel@redhat> On 06-11-2006, mon at 08:04 -0800, Karsten Wade wrote: > On Wed, 2006-11-01 at 17:18 +0100, Pawel Sadowski wrote: > > Hi, > > > > I have found a misprint in Polish translation of the ln-legalnotice file > > (http://fedora.redhat.com/docs/release-notes/fc6/pl/ln-legalnotice.html) > > but I can not find it in the current pl.po file. How can I correct it? > > It is just the one letter but it looks badly, so I would like to change > > it ;) > > I lost track of this after our IRC discussion; did you find this file in > the docs-common module? I think this is covered here: Sorry for my late answer, but I had a lot of unread mails in my box - heh, now I'm starting reading it regularly, cos I lost continuity ;) Yep, I have already found it - but I'm already not sure who did this translation - whether me or Piotr Drag. I'll ask him, maybe he'll remember ;) Regards, Pawel From raven at pmail.pl Tue Dec 26 15:50:37 2006 From: raven at pmail.pl (=?UTF-8?B?UGlvdHIgJ1JhdmVuJyBEcsSFZw==?=) Date: Tue, 26 Dec 2006 16:50:37 +0100 Subject: Missing ln-legalnotice file In-Reply-To: <1167120754.5221.5.camel@redhat> References: <1162397891.5043.5.camel@redhat> <1162829086.27328.300.camel@erato.phig.org> <1167120754.5221.5.camel@redhat> Message-ID: <459144CD.5060706@pmail.pl> Pawel Sadowski napisa?(a): > Sorry for my late answer, but I had a lot of unread mails in my box - > heh, now I'm starting reading it regularly, cos I lost continuity ;) > Yep, I have already found it - but I'm already not sure who did this > translation - whether me or Piotr Drag. I'll ask him, maybe he'll > remember ;) > I did this. Why didn't you check this in CVS revision history or fedora-docs-commits list archives? :P -- Piotr Dr?g http://pmail.pl/~raven/index.html From mcgiwer at fedoraproject.org Tue Dec 26 20:32:01 2006 From: mcgiwer at fedoraproject.org (Pawel Sadowski) Date: Tue, 26 Dec 2006 21:32:01 +0100 Subject: Missing ln-legalnotice file In-Reply-To: <459144CD.5060706@pmail.pl> References: <1162397891.5043.5.camel@redhat> <1162829086.27328.300.camel@erato.phig.org> <1167120754.5221.5.camel@redhat> <459144CD.5060706@pmail.pl> Message-ID: <1167165121.7885.3.camel@redhat> On 26-12-2006, tue at 16:50 +0100, Piotr 'Raven' Dr?g wrote: > Pawel Sadowski napisa?(a): > > Sorry for my late answer, but I had a lot of unread mails in my box - > > heh, now I'm starting reading it regularly, cos I lost continuity ;) > > Yep, I have already found it - but I'm already not sure who did this > > translation - whether me or Piotr Drag. I'll ask him, maybe he'll > > remember ;) > > > > I did this. Why didn't you check this in CVS revision history or > fedora-docs-commits list archives? :P Indeed, I could check it. But I preffered to ask you, as it could be quicker than searching ;) Btw, there's one small business - this file shouldn't be translated :) It's written here: http://fedora.redhat.com/docs/translation-quick-start- guide/en/sn_translating_docs.html#sn-creating-common. But I think it's a problem easy to solve :) Regards, Pawel From ggrispos at hotmail.com Fri Dec 29 17:59:44 2006 From: ggrispos at hotmail.com (George Grispos) Date: Fri, 29 Dec 2006 19:59:44 +0200 Subject: * Message-ID: George Grispos I live between London UK and Nicosia Cyprus Im a 1st year student studying Computer Networks I would like to help out the Fedora Docs Project even though I am fairly new to Linux. I would eventually like to write tutorials for the "total newbie". I am a student at the moment but I have various other certifications (MCSA, MCDST and A+) and have in the past worked as a Desktop Support Engineer. I have done some programming before but nothing ever on a commercial level - Java and C++. [root at localhost george]# gpg --fingerprint 93F84C42 pub 1024D/93F84C42 2006-12-29 Key fingerprint = 27F2 F26B 49CA AF37 D73F 2827 37A5 4302 93F8 4C42 uid George Grispos sub 1024g/37AEEFAA 2006-12-29 _________________________________________________________________ >From photos to predictions, The MSN Entertainment Guide to Golden Globes has it all. http://tv.msn.com/tv/globes2007/ From ggrispos at hotmail.com Sun Dec 31 01:29:23 2006 From: ggrispos at hotmail.com (George Grispos) Date: Sun, 31 Dec 2006 03:29:23 +0200 Subject: George Grispos - Self Introduction Message-ID: George Grispos I live between London UK and Nicosia Cyprus Im a 1st year student studying Computer Networks I would like to help out the Fedora Docs Project even though I am fairly new to Linux. I would eventually like to write tutorials for the "total newbie". I am a student at the moment but I have various other certifications (MCSA, MCDST and A+) and have in the past worked as a Desktop Support Engineer. I have done some programming before but nothing ever on a commercial level - Java and C++. [root at localhost george]# gpg --fingerprint 93F84C42 pub 1024D/93F84C42 2006-12-29 Key fingerprint = 27F2 F26B 49CA AF37 D73F 2827 37A5 4302 93F8 4C42 uid George Grispos sub 1024g/37AEEFAA 2006-12-29 _________________________________________________________________ Express yourself instantly with MSN Messenger! Download today it's FREE! http://messenger.msn.click-url.com/go/onm00200471ave/direct/01/ From maxime.carron at fedoraproject.org Sun Dec 31 13:40:46 2006 From: maxime.carron at fedoraproject.org (Maxime Carron) Date: Sun, 31 Dec 2006 14:40:46 +0100 Subject: Self-Introduction: Maxime Carron Message-ID: <1167572446.2941.13.camel@max.falloy.be> Hi, My name is Maxime Carron, i live in Lyon (France). I'm student in two master degrees (Universit? Lyon 1, and INSA) both in computer sciences (network). I use fedora since FC2. I'm ambassador since september 2006. I'm also involved in the french fedora community, as a community manager and in the documentation project. http://doc.fedora-fr.org/Utilisateur:MaximeCarron I heard about a project "fedora on laptop". I would like to help on this one to begin. -- Maxime Carron Fedora Ambassador Fedora-fr Community Manager - http://www.fedora-fr.org From sundaram at fedoraproject.org Sun Dec 31 14:37:53 2006 From: sundaram at fedoraproject.org (Rahul Sundaram) Date: Sun, 31 Dec 2006 20:07:53 +0530 Subject: Self-Introduction: Maxime Carron In-Reply-To: <1167572446.2941.13.camel@max.falloy.be> References: <1167572446.2941.13.camel@max.falloy.be> Message-ID: <4597CB41.4070006@fedoraproject.org> Maxime Carron wrote: > Hi, > > My name is Maxime Carron, i live in Lyon (France). > I'm student in two master degrees (Universit? Lyon 1, and INSA) both in > computer sciences (network). > > I use fedora since FC2. I'm ambassador since september 2006. > I'm also involved in the french fedora community, as a community manager > and in the documentation project. > http://doc.fedora-fr.org/Utilisateur:MaximeCarron > > I heard about a project "fedora on laptop". I would like to help on this > one to begin. Welcome. There is a fedora-laptop list at http://www.redhat.com/mailman/listinfo/fedora-laptop-list. Also a upcoming project to collect hardware information at https://hosted.fedoraproject.org/projects/LHCP Rahul From maxime.carron at fedoraproject.org Sun Dec 31 15:49:12 2006 From: maxime.carron at fedoraproject.org (Maxime Carron) Date: Sun, 31 Dec 2006 16:49:12 +0100 Subject: Self-Introduction: Maxime Carron In-Reply-To: <4597CB41.4070006@fedoraproject.org> References: <1167572446.2941.13.camel@max.falloy.be> <4597CB41.4070006@fedoraproject.org> Message-ID: <1167580152.2963.0.camel@max.falloy.be> Le dimanche 31 d?cembre 2006 ? 20:07 +0530, Rahul Sundaram a ?crit : > Welcome. There is a fedora-laptop list at > http://www.redhat.com/mailman/listinfo/fedora-laptop-list. Also a > upcoming project to collect hardware information at > https://hosted.fedoraproject.org/projects/LHCP > > Rahul > OK, thanks Rahul. -- Maxime Carron Fedora Ambassador Fedora-fr Community Manager - http://www.fedora-fr.org