From stickster at gmail.com Wed Feb 1 01:17:52 2006 From: stickster at gmail.com (Paul W. Frields) Date: Tue, 31 Jan 2006 20:17:52 -0500 Subject: fedora-doc-common RPM specfile Message-ID: <1138756672.25455.10.camel@localhost.localdomain> I believe some changes are in order for the fedora-doc-common package. Rather than having this package "roll" forever with a "cvsYYYYMMDD" designator, I think it will be preferable, both for us and Fedora Extras, to simply version/release tag the specfile, per normal, and "cvs tag" the docs-common module with that version/release combo. If you want to see the current state of the file, look at this URL: http://cvs.fedora.redhat.com/viewcvs/docs-common/packaging/fedora-doc-common.spec?viewcvs=docs&view=markup Currently the %version and %release are provided by the Makefile: http://cvs.fedora.redhat.com/viewcvs/docs-common/Makefile?viewcvs=docs&view=markup ...but this seems less than optimal, as well as possibly counter to some normal Fedora Extras policies and practices. In the interest of getting this package entered (since all other fedora-doc-* packages will depend thereupon), I want the spec to look as "clean" as possible to a FE reviewer. By using a real version/release, appending the changelog per normal, committing any changes and retagging the docs-common module appropriately, we should have all the recall we need for QA purposes. Note that using an "rpm-info.xml" file in this case is probably not workable since the fedora-doc-common module doesn't build the same way as any of the documentation. Also note that changes to this package will probably only be made by a few individuals, making the "exception" of negligible impact on the overall FDP. I've invited Ignacio Vazquez-Abrams, one of FE's staff of reviewers, to look at (and comment on) the specfile, simply because he has been kind enough to review some of my packages for FE. (It's like a lottery, only the prize is more beatings.) Any or all comments are welcome and appreciated. -- Paul W. Frields, RHCE http://paul.frields.org/ gpg fingerprint: 3DA6 A0AC 6D58 FEC4 0233 5906 ACDB C937 BD11 3717 Fedora Documentation Project: http://fedora.redhat.com/projects/docs/ -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: signature.asc Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 189 bytes Desc: This is a digitally signed message part URL: From hugo at devin.com.br Wed Feb 1 18:37:02 2006 From: hugo at devin.com.br (Hugo Cisneiros) Date: Wed, 01 Feb 2006 16:37:02 -0200 Subject: Self-Introduction: Hugo Cisneiros In-Reply-To: <6e0cf1cc0601271017r55aeeb87y56d24fc57adfa762@mail.gmail.com> References: <6e0cf1cc0601271017r55aeeb87y56d24fc57adfa762@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <43E0FFCE.1070107@devin.com.br> Hau! Let's go to Self-Introduction :) 1. Hugo Cisneiros * Brasilia, Brasil * Working with Linux and Free Software in the networking, development, and documentation areas. * Currently working in Cobra Tecnologia and Banco do Brasil. 2. Your goals in the Fedora Project Q: What do you want to write about? A: Right now, nothing in particular. I'm willing to help other authors to write more and translate docs to the Brazilian Portuguese language. Q: What other documentation do you want to see published? A: I'm beggining with an idea of creating a Knowledge Base, as in a FAQ. The idea came because I always get questions and answers in the mailing lists and IRC. A searchable knowledge base is perfect for people trying to solve problems. Q: Do you want to edit for grammar/writing and/or technical accuracy? A: Technical :) Q: Anything else special? A: I love just to do things. If you need something that I'm capable of, just point me and I'll do it. 3. Historical qualifications Q: What other projects or writing have you worked on in the past? A: Many things here in Brazil. Lectures, Some Guides and Manuals, Tutorials, and presentations. All in my personal webpage written mostly in Brazilian Portuguese. I also participate in some great events here in Brazil. The most useful thing I've ever done is the first portuguese guide to using Linux. Now I'm doing an updated version of it in a book format. Q: What level and type of computer skills do you have? A: Great experience. I use Linux since beginning of 1997, always working on it and to improve use here in Brazil helping others. Q: What other skills do you have that might be applicable? User interface design, other so-called soft skills (people skills), programming, etc. A: I love to write and teach people how to do things. I also do some programming and system administration (servers and networks mostly). Q: What makes you an excellent match for the project? A: Big motivation and the main thing: results! 4. GPG KEYID and fingerprint [hugo at aeris ~]$ gpg --fingerprint hugo at devin.com.br pub 1024D/C07C58E9 2006-02-01 [expires: 2007-02-01] Key fingerprint = F576 BA97 6738 FFC1 16FB 2D66 C404 9B16 C07C 58E9 uid Hugo Cisneiros (Eitch) sub 1024g/6D728B24 2006-02-01 [expires: 2007-02-01] -- []'s Eitch http://www.devin.com.br/eitch/ "Talk is cheap. Show me the code." - Linus Torvalds From stickster at gmail.com Wed Feb 1 18:50:19 2006 From: stickster at gmail.com (Paul W. Frields) Date: Wed, 01 Feb 2006 13:50:19 -0500 Subject: Self-Introduction: Hugo Cisneiros In-Reply-To: <43E0FFCE.1070107@devin.com.br> References: <6e0cf1cc0601271017r55aeeb87y56d24fc57adfa762@mail.gmail.com> <43E0FFCE.1070107@devin.com.br> Message-ID: <1138819819.3003.10.camel@localhost.localdomain> On Wed, 2006-02-01 at 16:37 -0200, Hugo Cisneiros wrote: > Q: What do you want to write about? > A: Right now, nothing in particular. I'm willing to help other > authors to write more and translate docs to the Brazilian Portuguese > language. Great! We are looking forward to the participation of more translators. > Q: What other documentation do you want to see published? > A: I'm beggining with an idea of creating a Knowledge Base, as in a > FAQ. The idea came because I always get questions and answers in the > mailing lists and IRC. A searchable knowledge base is perfect for people > trying to solve problems. You may be inclined to join the fedora-websites-list and bring up the topic there, since there are people already working on the issue of a content management system (CMS). This seems like a no-brainer for that larger system. > Q: Do you want to edit for grammar/writing and/or technical accuracy? > A: Technical :) Always appreciated! > Q: Anything else special? > A: I love just to do things. If you need something that I'm capable > of, just point me and I'll do it. So do you prefer to get assigned tasks, or are you going to simply start doing some translations right away? Either one is fine, just let us know what you'd prefer. > Q: What makes you an excellent match for the project? > A: Big motivation and the main thing: results! No kidding, I see you've already been working on the Translation QSG! Great work. :-) All right, make sure you finish out the Fedora account process so we can get you added into CVS access. -- Paul W. Frields, RHCE http://paul.frields.org/ gpg fingerprint: 3DA6 A0AC 6D58 FEC4 0233 5906 ACDB C937 BD11 3717 Fedora Documentation Project: http://fedora.redhat.com/projects/docs/ -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: signature.asc Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 189 bytes Desc: This is a digitally signed message part URL: From kwade at redhat.com Wed Feb 1 20:22:20 2006 From: kwade at redhat.com (Karsten Wade) Date: Wed, 01 Feb 2006 12:22:20 -0800 Subject: "how-to-burn on Windows" doc In-Reply-To: <1138737023.5151.421.camel@erato.phig.org> References: <1138737023.5151.421.camel@erato.phig.org> Message-ID: <1138825340.5151.463.camel@erato.phig.org> On Tue, 2006-01-31 at 11:50 -0800, Karsten Wade wrote: > * In the directory with the ISOs, mirrored to every download site? David wrote to me that this is what he intended, and I concur it makes the most sense. Perhaps under a name such as "HOW_TO_MAKE_INSTALLATION_CDs". David -- did you file bug report for this? We need that to continue action on this. thx - Karsten -- Karsten Wade, RHCE * Sr. Tech Writer * http://people.redhat.com/kwade/ gpg fingerprint: 2680 DBFD D968 3141 0115 5F1B D992 0E06 AD0E 0C41 Content Services Fedora Documentation Project http://www.redhat.com/docs http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/DocsProject -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: signature.asc Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 189 bytes Desc: This is a digitally signed message part URL: From kwade at redhat.com Wed Feb 1 20:29:53 2006 From: kwade at redhat.com (Karsten Wade) Date: Wed, 01 Feb 2006 12:29:53 -0800 Subject: "how-to-burn on Windows" doc In-Reply-To: <1138825340.5151.463.camel@erato.phig.org> References: <1138737023.5151.421.camel@erato.phig.org> <1138825340.5151.463.camel@erato.phig.org> Message-ID: <1138825794.5151.466.camel@erato.phig.org> On Wed, 2006-02-01 at 12:22 -0800, Karsten Wade wrote: > On Tue, 2006-01-31 at 11:50 -0800, Karsten Wade wrote: > > > * In the directory with the ISOs, mirrored to every download site? > > David wrote to me that this is what he intended, and I concur it makes > the most sense. > > Perhaps under a name such as "HOW_TO_MAKE_INSTALLATION_CDs". > > David -- did you file bug report for this? We need that to continue > action on this. One other note: We are targeting inclusion of this file into the ISO directory for FC5 release, not test3. - Karsten -- Karsten Wade, RHCE * Sr. Tech Writer * http://people.redhat.com/kwade/ gpg fingerprint: 2680 DBFD D968 3141 0115 5F1B D992 0E06 AD0E 0C41 Content Services Fedora Documentation Project http://www.redhat.com/docs http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/DocsProject -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: signature.asc Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 189 bytes Desc: This is a digitally signed message part URL: From kwade at redhat.com Wed Feb 1 20:50:13 2006 From: kwade at redhat.com (Karsten Wade) Date: Wed, 01 Feb 2006 12:50:13 -0800 Subject: fedora-doc-common RPM specfile In-Reply-To: <1138756672.25455.10.camel@localhost.localdomain> References: <1138756672.25455.10.camel@localhost.localdomain> Message-ID: <1138827013.5151.472.camel@erato.phig.org> On Tue, 2006-01-31 at 20:17 -0500, Paul W. Frields wrote: > I believe some changes are in order for the fedora-doc-common package. > Rather than having this package "roll" forever with a "cvsYYYYMMDD" > designator, I think it will be preferable, both for us and Fedora > Extras, to simply version/release tag the specfile, per normal, and "cvs > tag" the docs-common module with that version/release combo. If you > want to see the current state of the file, look at this URL: > > http://cvs.fedora.redhat.com/viewcvs/docs-common/packaging/fedora-doc-common.spec?viewcvs=docs&view=markup That gen'd a 400 error for me. Regardless, what you propose to me sounds sane and the Right Thing To Do. - Karsten > Currently the %version and %release are provided by the Makefile: > > http://cvs.fedora.redhat.com/viewcvs/docs-common/Makefile?viewcvs=docs&view=markup > > ...but this seems less than optimal, as well as possibly counter to some > normal Fedora Extras policies and practices. In the interest of getting > this package entered (since all other fedora-doc-* packages will depend > thereupon), I want the spec to look as "clean" as possible to a FE > reviewer. By using a real version/release, appending the changelog per > normal, committing any changes and retagging the docs-common module > appropriately, we should have all the recall we need for QA purposes. > > Note that using an "rpm-info.xml" file in this case is probably not > workable since the fedora-doc-common module doesn't build the same way > as any of the documentation. Also note that changes to this package > will probably only be made by a few individuals, making the "exception" > of negligible impact on the overall FDP. > > I've invited Ignacio Vazquez-Abrams, one of FE's staff of reviewers, to > look at (and comment on) the specfile, simply because he has been kind > enough to review some of my packages for FE. (It's like a lottery, only > the prize is more beatings.) > > Any or all comments are welcome and appreciated. > > -- > fedora-docs-list mailing list > fedora-docs-list at redhat.com > To unsubscribe: > https://www.redhat.com/mailman/listinfo/fedora-docs-list -- Karsten Wade, RHCE * Sr. Tech Writer * http://people.redhat.com/kwade/ gpg fingerprint: 2680 DBFD D968 3141 0115 5F1B D992 0E06 AD0E 0C41 Content Services Fedora Documentation Project http://www.redhat.com/docs http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/DocsProject -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: signature.asc Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 189 bytes Desc: This is a digitally signed message part URL: From kwade at redhat.com Wed Feb 1 21:04:08 2006 From: kwade at redhat.com (Karsten Wade) Date: Wed, 01 Feb 2006 13:04:08 -0800 Subject: Eclipse for XML authoring Message-ID: <1138827848.5151.482.camel@erato.phig.org> http://www.eclipse.org/articles/Article-Authoring-With-Eclipse/AuthoringWithEclipse.html I understand there are a few factual errors, but the basic ideas can work. I'm looking into which plug-in(s) are needed to make this work, so we can get them into Extras or the eclipse packaging. It uses FOP for PDF generation One of the plug-ins is fopbridge: http://www.eclipse-plugins.info/eclipse/plugin_details.jsp;jsessionid=E70C3A5C0B3E635C87C7795874D40D00?id=942 (The canonical http://www.ahmadsoft.org/fopbridge.html is expired.) Another XML editor based on Eclipse is referenced, Vex: http://vex.sourceforge.net/ - Karsten -- Karsten Wade, RHCE * Sr. Tech Writer * http://people.redhat.com/kwade/ gpg fingerprint: 2680 DBFD D968 3141 0115 5F1B D992 0E06 AD0E 0C41 Content Services Fedora Documentation Project http://www.redhat.com/docs http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/DocsProject -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: signature.asc Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 189 bytes Desc: This is a digitally signed message part URL: From kwade at redhat.com Wed Feb 1 21:27:15 2006 From: kwade at redhat.com (Karsten Wade) Date: Wed, 01 Feb 2006 13:27:15 -0800 Subject: Feedback request In-Reply-To: <20060131103024.jk1nu3758u0wogk4@mail.ph.utexas.edu> References: <43DEEE41.809@ddeutsch.org> <20060131103024.jk1nu3758u0wogk4@mail.ph.utexas.edu> Message-ID: <1138829236.5151.494.camel@erato.phig.org> On Tue, 2006-01-31 at 10:30 -0600, Eric Rostetter wrote: > Quoting Debra Deutsch : > > > I've read the pages about writing using the wiki and wiki editing. It's > > left me with the impression that perhaps the FAQ should be broken into > > pages instead of being one long page. > > All the sites I've done, I've always generated the FAQ as both a single > monolithic FAQ and a paged version. Let the user pick which they want. This can be done by following a format similar to http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Docs/Beats but using a [[Table of Contents]] at the start instead of the hand-generated list of links to the actual sub-pages. > Most users want a monolithic version for printing, handouts, etc. > Most users like to be able to go to a specific page in the docs easily > when searching for quick information (ala google, etc). Breaking this up could make for easier and more intuitive deep linking: http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/FAQ/GettingStarted#Is-my-hardware-compatible-with-Fedora Right now a link to that same question looks like this: http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/FAQ#head-640c24d1609de5de1e7955fc46743cc017e77d75 This format sucks for Google, because it changes all the time. You could simulate that with the anchors, but it would look more like this: http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/FAQ#GettingStarted--Is-my-hardware-compatible-with-Fedora - Karsten -- Karsten Wade, RHCE * Sr. Tech Writer * http://people.redhat.com/kwade/ gpg fingerprint: 2680 DBFD D968 3141 0115 5F1B D992 0E06 AD0E 0C41 Content Services Fedora Documentation Project http://www.redhat.com/docs http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/DocsProject -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: signature.asc Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 189 bytes Desc: This is a digitally signed message part URL: From kwade at redhat.com Wed Feb 1 21:29:02 2006 From: kwade at redhat.com (Karsten Wade) Date: Wed, 01 Feb 2006 13:29:02 -0800 Subject: I introduce myself In-Reply-To: <1138732699.20323.1.camel@localhost.localdomain> References: <1138730062.5151.379.camel@erato.phig.org> <1138732699.20323.1.camel@localhost.localdomain> Message-ID: <1138829342.5151.497.camel@erato.phig.org> On Tue, 2006-01-31 at 13:38 -0500, Paul W. Frields wrote: > On Tue, 2006-01-31 at 09:54 -0800, Karsten Wade wrote: > > On Sat, 2006-01-28 at 15:04 +0100, Francesco Ugolini wrote: > > > My name is Francesco Ugolini, i'm an Italian Fedora Ambassador (on > > > probing) and i have decided to help the Fedora Community to export > > > the power of this system everywhere. > > > > Welcome Francesco. Thanks already for your work in translating the > > Translation Quick Start Guide. > > Oops, I think that was Francesco *Tombolini* who did that work! But we > are always happy to have more Italian participants to help with > translation and any other tasks of interest. Welcome, Francesco. Ha! You'd think a guy who gets mistaken for Karsten Hopp (or Rasterman) would pay more attention. *blush* - Karsten -- Karsten Wade, RHCE * Sr. Tech Writer * http://people.redhat.com/kwade/ gpg fingerprint: 2680 DBFD D968 3141 0115 5F1B D992 0E06 AD0E 0C41 Content Services Fedora Documentation Project http://www.redhat.com/docs http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/DocsProject -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: signature.asc Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 189 bytes Desc: This is a digitally signed message part URL: From stickster at gmail.com Wed Feb 1 21:50:27 2006 From: stickster at gmail.com (Paul W. Frields) Date: Wed, 01 Feb 2006 16:50:27 -0500 Subject: fedora-doc-common RPM specfile In-Reply-To: <1138827013.5151.472.camel@erato.phig.org> References: <1138756672.25455.10.camel@localhost.localdomain> <1138827013.5151.472.camel@erato.phig.org> Message-ID: <1138830627.8750.10.camel@localhost.localdomain> On Wed, 2006-02-01 at 12:50 -0800, Karsten Wade wrote: > On Tue, 2006-01-31 at 20:17 -0500, Paul W. Frields wrote: > > I believe some changes are in order for the fedora-doc-common package. > > Rather than having this package "roll" forever with a "cvsYYYYMMDD" > > designator, I think it will be preferable, both for us and Fedora > > Extras, to simply version/release tag the specfile, per normal, and "cvs > > tag" the docs-common module with that version/release combo. If you > > want to see the current state of the file, look at this URL: > > > > http://cvs.fedora.redhat.com/viewcvs/docs-common/packaging/fedora-doc-common.spec?viewcvs=docs&view=markup > > That gen'd a 400 error for me. Only because I em stoopid. Honestly, would you think it was so hard to use copy+paste? :-( In my defense, 95% of the time I do it, I just save the typos for the 5% of my work that goes out into the googlemind. *sigh* http://cvs.fedora.redhat.com/viewcvs/docs-common/packaging/fedora-doc-common.spec?root=docs&view=markup > Regardless, what you propose to me sounds sane and the Right Thing To > Do. Hopefully Ignacio agrees. He is buried in some other work right now but I know he will get to this when he has a chance. -- Paul W. Frields, RHCE http://paul.frields.org/ gpg fingerprint: 3DA6 A0AC 6D58 FEC4 0233 5906 ACDB C937 BD11 3717 Fedora Documentation Project: http://fedora.redhat.com/projects/docs/ -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: signature.asc Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 189 bytes Desc: This is a digitally signed message part URL: From fcdocs at fletchersweb.net Wed Feb 1 23:49:40 2006 From: fcdocs at fletchersweb.net (David Fletcher) Date: Wed, 1 Feb 2006 23:49:40 +0000 Subject: "how-to-burn on Windows" doc In-Reply-To: <1138825794.5151.466.camel@erato.phig.org> References: <1138737023.5151.421.camel@erato.phig.org> <1138825340.5151.463.camel@erato.phig.org> <1138825794.5151.466.camel@erato.phig.org> Message-ID: <200602012349.48514.fcdocs@fletchersweb.net> On Wednesday 01 Feb 2006 20:29, Karsten Wade wrote: > On Wed, 2006-02-01 at 12:22 -0800, Karsten Wade wrote: > > On Tue, 2006-01-31 at 11:50 -0800, Karsten Wade wrote: > > > * In the directory with the ISOs, mirrored to every download site? > > > > David wrote to me that this is what he intended, and I concur it makes > > the most sense. > > > > Perhaps under a name such as "HOW_TO_MAKE_INSTALLATION_CDs". > > > > David -- did you file bug report for this? We need that to continue > > action on this. > > One other note: We are targeting inclusion of this file into the ISO > directory for FC5 release, not test3. > > - Karsten Karsten, The bug number is 178847. Dave -- Registered Linux user number 393408 -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 189 bytes Desc: not available URL: From kwade at redhat.com Thu Feb 2 00:15:00 2006 From: kwade at redhat.com (Karsten Wade) Date: Wed, 01 Feb 2006 16:15:00 -0800 Subject: "how-to-burn on Windows" doc In-Reply-To: <200602012349.48514.fcdocs@fletchersweb.net> References: <1138737023.5151.421.camel@erato.phig.org> <1138825340.5151.463.camel@erato.phig.org> <1138825794.5151.466.camel@erato.phig.org> <200602012349.48514.fcdocs@fletchersweb.net> Message-ID: <1138839300.5151.500.camel@erato.phig.org> On Wed, 2006-02-01 at 23:49 +0000, David Fletcher wrote: > The bug number is 178847. I edited and put up a new attachment. https://bugzilla.redhat.com/bugzilla/show_bug.cgi?id=178847 David tasks (detailed in bz report): * Approve edits * License the content FDP tasks from one other editor: * Confirm technical quality of work * Confirm that it meets the spirit of Fedora - Karsten -- Karsten Wade, RHCE * Sr. Tech Writer * http://people.redhat.com/kwade/ gpg fingerprint: 2680 DBFD D968 3141 0115 5F1B D992 0E06 AD0E 0C41 Content Services Fedora Documentation Project http://www.redhat.com/docs http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/DocsProject -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: signature.asc Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 189 bytes Desc: This is a digitally signed message part URL: From Tommy.Reynolds at MegaCoder.com Thu Feb 2 01:31:05 2006 From: Tommy.Reynolds at MegaCoder.com (Tommy Reynolds) Date: Wed, 1 Feb 2006 19:31:05 -0600 Subject: Eclipse for XML authoring In-Reply-To: <1138827848.5151.482.camel@erato.phig.org> References: <1138827848.5151.482.camel@erato.phig.org> Message-ID: <20060201193105.749ab1db.Tommy.Reynolds@MegaCoder.com> Uttered Karsten Wade , spake thus: > http://www.eclipse.org/articles/Article-Authoring-With-Eclipse/AuthoringWithEclipse.html > > I understand there are a few factual errors, but the basic ideas can > work. I'm looking into which plug-in(s) are needed to make this work, > so we can get them into Extras or the eclipse packaging. It uses FOP > for PDF generation > > One of the plug-ins is fopbridge: > > http://www.eclipse-plugins.info/eclipse/plugin_details.jsp;jsessionid=E70C3A5C0B3E635C87C7795874D40D00?id=942 > > (The canonical http://www.ahmadsoft.org/fopbridge.html is expired.) > > Another XML editor based on Eclipse is referenced, Vex: > http://vex.sourceforge.net/ I'd tried these before, but revisited them after this email. I never could get VEX to work on my FC4 system. First, it requires Sun java on the $PATH. Then, it wouldn't open the external file example-tutorial-en.xml, so I gave up. Perhaps if I took time to build it from scratch, but I'm not going to try. The Eclipse Web Tools 1.0 release (brand, spanking new) looks good. It is at: http://www.eclipse.org/webtools/ where I tried the standalone, all-in-one package. It seems to work well, providing syntax highlighting, tag completion and structure editing. I couldn't find how to validate the document, however. I installed the Fedora natively-compiled eclipse-platform and eclipse-jdt RPM's and tried to use Eclipse's remote update against that version. The webtools installed OK, but then required that the Sun java be found on the path before the gcj version. YMMV (and probably will) From kwade at redhat.com Thu Feb 2 01:43:34 2006 From: kwade at redhat.com (Karsten Wade) Date: Wed, 01 Feb 2006 17:43:34 -0800 Subject: wiki tagging style Message-ID: <1138844614.5151.520.camel@erato.phig.org> I've working over this file: http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/WikiEditing In particular this section and the surrounding sections: http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/WikiEditing#Marking_Technical_Terms I'm trying to get the same formatting used across the Docs/Beats, because those are now canonical and need to output XML that follows the same styling conventions. Here is what I did and what I am wondering about, I'm curious for comments: ------------------------- 1. Made the technical markup into a table by term. Did some changes: - Applications are now '''boldface''' - Added {{{inline command}}} and {{{daemon}}} - Added ''first term'' and ''glossary term'' Thoughts? ------------------------- 2. I don't like the table hack for the admonitions. I mean, I like it visually, but that is a problem we need to solve in the stylesheets. Can we? Otherwise, it doesn't translate to XML that well. OTOH, I like the look of a '''Bold title for the admonition''', like this: {i} '''Interesting information is available informally''' With a paragraph like this that contains real content to back up the informative title line. We could look into making the stylesheets deliver, "Boldface the entire line associated with the admonition icon." Otherwise, I propose that we use my example {i} from above. However, I put in changes to support _just_ the boldface and second paragraph, which actually now matches the existing sample icons. The pipes are therefore up for discussion, unless you all hate the boldface and second paragraph stuff. :) When the paragraph and the admonition are jammed together, the admonition feels crowded to me. The title needs to be informative and summarizing. Thoughts? ------------------------- -- Karsten Wade, RHCE * Sr. Tech Writer * http://people.redhat.com/kwade/ gpg fingerprint: 2680 DBFD D968 3141 0115 5F1B D992 0E06 AD0E 0C41 Content Services Fedora Documentation Project http://www.redhat.com/docs http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/DocsProject -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: signature.asc Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 189 bytes Desc: This is a digitally signed message part URL: From steven.pierce at gmail.com Thu Feb 2 04:38:44 2006 From: steven.pierce at gmail.com (Steven Pierce) Date: Wed, 1 Feb 2006 20:38:44 -0800 Subject: Feedback request In-Reply-To: <1138687307.5151.359.camel@erato.phig.org> References: <43DEEE41.809@ddeutsch.org> <1138687307.5151.359.camel@erato.phig.org> Message-ID: <6e0cf1cc0602012038t17d2db9ajbb8aa3e36f1daa7e@mail.gmail.com> Hello all, This is a Fedora core 4 machine. The CD ROM works fine. I just used it to install the OS. Every time I start this machine, the CD ROM opens up. When I close it, it opens back up after some 15-20 seconds. What could possibly cause this to happen? Thank you, Has anyone seen this before?? It is from a different list, but I had only thought that this happens under MS -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From sundaram at fedoraproject.org Thu Feb 2 05:42:33 2006 From: sundaram at fedoraproject.org (Rahul Sundaram) Date: Thu, 02 Feb 2006 11:12:33 +0530 Subject: Feedback request In-Reply-To: <1138829236.5151.494.camel@erato.phig.org> References: <43DEEE41.809@ddeutsch.org> <20060131103024.jk1nu3758u0wogk4@mail.ph.utexas.edu> <1138829236.5151.494.camel@erato.phig.org> Message-ID: <43E19BC9.9000202@fedoraproject.org> Hi >Breaking this up could make for easier and more intuitive deep linking: > >http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/FAQ/GettingStarted#Is-my-hardware-compatible-with-Fedora > >Right now a link to that same question looks like this: > >http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/FAQ#head-640c24d1609de5de1e7955fc46743cc017e77d75 > >This format sucks for Google, because it changes all the time. > >You could simulate that with the anchors, but it would look more like >this: > >http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/FAQ#GettingStarted--Is-my-hardware-compatible-with-Fedora > >- Karsten > > You can simply use anchors and get intuitive links. It does not require a breakup of the pages. If moinmoin can somehow generate decent anchor names automatically that would be great. It seems that isnt possible now. -- Rahul Fedora Bug Triaging - http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/BugZappers From sundaram at fedoraproject.org Thu Feb 2 05:57:52 2006 From: sundaram at fedoraproject.org (Rahul Sundaram) Date: Thu, 02 Feb 2006 11:27:52 +0530 Subject: I introduce myself In-Reply-To: <1138829342.5151.497.camel@erato.phig.org> References: <1138730062.5151.379.camel@erato.phig.org> <1138732699.20323.1.camel@localhost.localdomain> <1138829342.5151.497.camel@erato.phig.org> Message-ID: <43E19F60.8030500@fedoraproject.org> Karsten Wade wrote: >On Tue, 2006-01-31 at 13:38 -0500, Paul W. Frields wrote: > > >>On Tue, 2006-01-31 at 09:54 -0800, Karsten Wade wrote: >> >> >>>On Sat, 2006-01-28 at 15:04 +0100, Francesco Ugolini wrote: >>> >>> >>>>My name is Francesco Ugolini, i'm an Italian Fedora Ambassador (on >>>>probing) and i have decided to help the Fedora Community to export >>>>the power of this system everywhere. >>>> >>>> >>>Welcome Francesco. Thanks already for your work in translating the >>>Translation Quick Start Guide. >>> >>> >>Oops, I think that was Francesco *Tombolini* who did that work! But we >>are always happy to have more Italian participants to help with >>translation and any other tasks of interest. Welcome, Francesco. >> >> > >Ha! You'd think a guy who gets mistaken for Karsten Hopp (or Rasterman) >would pay more attention. *blush* > > Hmm. Rasterman is Carsten Haitzler. -- Rahul Fedora Bug Triaging - http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/BugZappers From sundaram at fedoraproject.org Thu Feb 2 05:58:39 2006 From: sundaram at fedoraproject.org (Rahul Sundaram) Date: Thu, 02 Feb 2006 11:28:39 +0530 Subject: Feedback request In-Reply-To: <6e0cf1cc0602012038t17d2db9ajbb8aa3e36f1daa7e@mail.gmail.com> References: <43DEEE41.809@ddeutsch.org> <1138687307.5151.359.camel@erato.phig.org> <6e0cf1cc0602012038t17d2db9ajbb8aa3e36f1daa7e@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <43E19F8F.5050708@fedoraproject.org> Steven Pierce wrote: > Hello all, > > This is a Fedora core 4 machine. The CD ROM works fine. I just used > it to > install the OS. > > Every time I start this machine, the CD ROM opens up. When I close > it, it > opens back up after some 15-20 seconds. > > What could possibly cause this to happen? > > Thank you, > > > Has anyone seen this before?? It is from a different list, but I had only > thought that this happens under MS > Try asking in the fedora-list or Fedora forum. http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/PostIsOffTopic -- Rahul Fedora Bug Triaging - http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/BugZappers From ivazquez at ivazquez.net Thu Feb 2 06:31:47 2006 From: ivazquez at ivazquez.net (Ignacio Vazquez-Abrams) Date: Thu, 02 Feb 2006 01:31:47 -0500 Subject: fedora-doc-common RPM specfile In-Reply-To: <1138830627.8750.10.camel@localhost.localdomain> References: <1138756672.25455.10.camel@localhost.localdomain> <1138827013.5151.472.camel@erato.phig.org> <1138830627.8750.10.camel@localhost.localdomain> Message-ID: <1138861907.23767.13.camel@ignacio.lan> On Wed, 2006-02-01 at 16:50 -0500, Paul W. Frields wrote: > http://cvs.fedora.redhat.com/viewcvs/docs-common/packaging/fedora-doc-common.spec?root=docs&view=markup - Version and release ought to be in the file itself, not done via macros - Is there a reason why release is used where the version normally would be? - $RPM_BUILD_DIR with the -n value from %setup is the current directory for %build and %install so you can remove $RPM_BUILD_DIR/%{name}-%{release}/ everywhere - Why is %{_datadir}/fedora/doc/docs-common/common/ marked %docdir? - %{_datadir}/fedora isn't owned by the package - Unable to verify khelpcenter directory ownership - No changelog entry -- Ignacio Vazquez-Abrams http://fedora.ivazquez.net/ gpg --keyserver hkp://subkeys.pgp.net --recv-key 38028b72 -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: signature.asc Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 189 bytes Desc: This is a digitally signed message part URL: From rrajaram at redhat.com Thu Feb 2 09:15:13 2006 From: rrajaram at redhat.com (Ranjith Rajaram) Date: Thu, 02 Feb 2006 14:45:13 +0530 Subject: Feedback request In-Reply-To: <43E19F8F.5050708@fedoraproject.org> References: <43DEEE41.809@ddeutsch.org> <1138687307.5151.359.camel@erato.phig.org> <6e0cf1cc0602012038t17d2db9ajbb8aa3e36f1daa7e@mail.gmail.com> <43E19F8F.5050708@fedoraproject.org> Message-ID: <43E1CDA1.1010605@redhat.com> Hey I have joined fedora forum Id is ryantechie even joined couple of mailing list too Rahul Sundaram wrote: > Steven Pierce wrote: > >> Hello all, >> >> This is a Fedora core 4 machine. The CD ROM works fine. I just used >> it to >> install the OS. >> >> Every time I start this machine, the CD ROM opens up. When I close >> it, it >> opens back up after some 15-20 seconds. >> >> What could possibly cause this to happen? >> >> Thank you, >> >> >> Has anyone seen this before?? It is from a different list, but I had >> only >> thought that this happens under MS >> > Try asking in the fedora-list or Fedora forum. > http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/PostIsOffTopic > -- Ranjith Rajaram Technical Support Officer Red Hat Software Services (India) Pvt. Ltd. 6th Floor, East Wing Marisoft-III Marigold premises Kalyani Nagar Pune, Maharashtra India Pin-411014 Tel: +91 20 56056035 Fax: +91 20 56056040 Website: www.rhss.redhat.com From kwade at redhat.com Thu Feb 2 09:57:28 2006 From: kwade at redhat.com (Karsten Wade) Date: Thu, 02 Feb 2006 01:57:28 -0800 Subject: I introduce myself In-Reply-To: <43E19F60.8030500@fedoraproject.org> References: <1138730062.5151.379.camel@erato.phig.org> <1138732699.20323.1.camel@localhost.localdomain> <1138829342.5151.497.camel@erato.phig.org> <43E19F60.8030500@fedoraproject.org> Message-ID: <1138874249.5151.584.camel@erato.phig.org> On Thu, 2006-02-02 at 11:27 +0530, Rahul Sundaram wrote: > >Ha! You'd think a guy who gets mistaken for Karsten Hopp (or Rasterman) > >would pay more attention. *blush* > > > > > Hmm. Rasterman is Carsten Haitzler. Yes, both first names are pronounced the same. Carsten and I both worked at VA Linux Systems at the same time, so it is a mistake that has happened. The key to my comment is, where I was born and have mainly lived (California), _no_one_ was named 'Karsten'.[1] I was rare, until I discovered the Internet and a large number of German math students. ;-) Part of my personal awareness becoming global has been understanding how people are named. It becomes easy to lump together foreign-sounding names as being "all the same." It is a worthy challenge to pay attention when engaging with a new locale, trying to understand how people's names are put together, and knowing who is who. - Karsten [1] I've yet to actually shake hands with someone of the same name. I do now have a good woman friend named Karsta, which I believe is of the same origin. -- Karsten Wade, RHCE * Sr. Tech Writer * http://people.redhat.com/kwade/ gpg fingerprint: 2680 DBFD D968 3141 0115 5F1B D992 0E06 AD0E 0C41 Content Services Fedora Documentation Project http://www.redhat.com/docs http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/DocsProject -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: signature.asc Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 189 bytes Desc: This is a digitally signed message part URL: From vamsi_ak at yahoo.com Thu Feb 2 16:16:09 2006 From: vamsi_ak at yahoo.com (A.Vamsi Krishna) Date: Thu, 2 Feb 2006 16:16:09 +0000 (GMT) Subject: Self Introduction Message-ID: <20060202161609.56779.qmail@web81308.mail.mud.yahoo.com> Dr.Shiva Kumar Sastry AKRON, OHIO, USA Professor The University of Akron Electrical and Computer Engineering Dept. Akron, Ohio USA pub 1024D/FA06E0D4 2006-02-02 Key fingerprint = 4D97 FADA 7174 0A10 6DEC BFC8 E5F0 B4C6 FA06 E0D4 uid vamsi_ak sub 1024g/54DF05AA 2006-02-02 Thank You Vamsi Krishna Annavajjula Teaching Assistant Electrical & Computer Engg. Dept. The University of AKRON, OHIO USA www.geocities.com/vamsi_ak 330-752-4873 -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From kwade at redhat.com Thu Feb 2 18:16:56 2006 From: kwade at redhat.com (Karsten Wade) Date: Thu, 02 Feb 2006 10:16:56 -0800 Subject: wiki tagging style In-Reply-To: <1138844614.5151.520.camel@erato.phig.org> References: <1138844614.5151.520.camel@erato.phig.org> Message-ID: <1138904218.5151.648.camel@erato.phig.org> On Wed, 2006-02-01 at 17:43 -0800, Karsten Wade wrote: > 2. I don't like the table hack for the admonitions. I mean, I like it > visually, but that is a problem we need to solve in the stylesheets. > Can we? Otherwise, it doesn't translate to XML that well. Patrick tells me that the admonitions are not treated differently by the Wiki. That is, they are not identified as admonitions. For this reason, they do not get converted into a proper admonition in the XML. The table hack is the only way we have of identifying, visually and programmatically, what is an admonition. By continuing to follow this format[1], we make it easier to do customizations that can created a proper XML admonition from the table markup generated out of the Wiki's XML. So, I retract my concern about the table hack. Carry on. :) - Karsten [1] || {i} '''A Summarizing Title''' || || Content paragraph, try to keep it to one. || || If you have to, go to subsequent paragraphs, although the table effect might look strange. || -- Karsten Wade, RHCE * Sr. Tech Writer * http://people.redhat.com/kwade/ gpg fingerprint: 2680 DBFD D968 3141 0115 5F1B D992 0E06 AD0E 0C41 Content Services Fedora Documentation Project http://www.redhat.com/docs http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/DocsProject -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: signature.asc Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 189 bytes Desc: This is a digitally signed message part URL: From hugo at devin.com.br Thu Feb 2 18:22:58 2006 From: hugo at devin.com.br (Hugo Cisneiros) Date: Thu, 02 Feb 2006 16:22:58 -0200 Subject: Self-Introduction: Hugo Cisneiros In-Reply-To: <1138819819.3003.10.camel@localhost.localdomain> References: <6e0cf1cc0601271017r55aeeb87y56d24fc57adfa762@mail.gmail.com> <43E0FFCE.1070107@devin.com.br> <1138819819.3003.10.camel@localhost.localdomain> Message-ID: <43E24E02.4050405@devin.com.br> Hi, Paul W. Frields wrote: > On Wed, 2006-02-01 at 16:37 -0200, Hugo Cisneiros wrote: >> Q: Anything else special? >> A: I love just to do things. If you need something that I'm capable >>of, just point me and I'll do it. > > > So do you prefer to get assigned tasks, or are you going to simply start > doing some translations right away? Either one is fine, just let us > know what you'd prefer. Sometimes I see something that gets my attention and I work on it. This is the Translation QSG case. But sometimes I got lost on what to do, specially when I'm kind of new to the group, so I would appreciate to get assigned tasks :) -- []'s Eitch http://www.devin.com.br/eitch/ "Talk is cheap. Show me the code." - Linus Torvalds From kwade at redhat.com Thu Feb 2 19:28:38 2006 From: kwade at redhat.com (Karsten Wade) Date: Thu, 02 Feb 2006 11:28:38 -0800 Subject: do not (yet) use translated legal notices Message-ID: <1138908518.5151.696.camel@erato.phig.org> Translators: In your file docs-common/common/fedora-entites-{lang}.ent, please set this entity to point at the -en legal notice: This is the actual content. To translate it, we need the translations approved by a lawyer. Probably for each translation, and the lawyer needs to be fluent in the language to approve it. Alternately, we could get some text from a lawyer that says, "This is a translation of the English license that may or may not pertain to your country and laws. It is therefore not a legal license in all jurisdictions." The we translate that. Meanwhile, please use the only legally approved legal notice for all of our documentation. Save the translations of the legal notice, hopefully we need them Real Soon. - Karsten -- Karsten Wade, RHCE * Sr. Tech Writer * http://people.redhat.com/kwade/ gpg fingerprint: 2680 DBFD D968 3141 0115 5F1B D992 0E06 AD0E 0C41 Content Services Fedora Documentation Project http://www.redhat.com/docs http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/DocsProject -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: signature.asc Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 189 bytes Desc: This is a digitally signed message part URL: From kwade at redhat.com Thu Feb 2 20:05:24 2006 From: kwade at redhat.com (Karsten Wade) Date: Thu, 02 Feb 2006 12:05:24 -0800 Subject: Self-Introduction: Hugo Cisneiros In-Reply-To: <43E24E02.4050405@devin.com.br> References: <6e0cf1cc0601271017r55aeeb87y56d24fc57adfa762@mail.gmail.com> <43E0FFCE.1070107@devin.com.br> <1138819819.3003.10.camel@localhost.localdomain> <43E24E02.4050405@devin.com.br> Message-ID: <1138910724.5151.733.camel@erato.phig.org> On Thu, 2006-02-02 at 16:22 -0200, Hugo Cisneiros wrote: > Sometimes I see something that gets my attention and I work on it. This > is the Translation QSG case. But sometimes I got lost on what to do, > specially when I'm kind of new to the group, so I would appreciate to > get assigned tasks :) We could also use a translation into pt_BR of the release notes (/cvs/docs/release-notes), which still aren't frozen for test3 due to $UNKNOWN_DETAILS. There is time to get this translation in for FC5 final release, and we'll post your draft as soon as it is good enough to build properly. - Karsten -- Karsten Wade, RHCE * Sr. Tech Writer * http://people.redhat.com/kwade/ gpg fingerprint: 2680 DBFD D968 3141 0115 5F1B D992 0E06 AD0E 0C41 Content Services Fedora Documentation Project http://www.redhat.com/docs http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/DocsProject -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: signature.asc Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 189 bytes Desc: This is a digitally signed message part URL: From kwade at redhat.com Fri Feb 3 00:31:09 2006 From: kwade at redhat.com (Karsten Wade) Date: Thu, 02 Feb 2006 16:31:09 -0800 Subject: docs and trans IRC log 02-Feb-2006 22:30 UTC 00:00 UTC Message-ID: <1138926670.27661.27.camel@erato.phig.org> ok, ready aalam, quaid: so, just 2 kickstart our chat...we need 2 make FC5 press release and release notes available for community translation ok, press release first "By Press Release, do you mean formal communication from the Fedora Foundation?" yep ok gdk and ambassadors steering committee are working on a poress release we have three locations where trans is going on ah, good 1. i18n.r.c 2. cvs.fedora:/cvs/docs 2. fedoraproject.o/wiki s/2. fed/3. fed/ quaid: do u have access to create directories in FC CVS repository? dunno exactly how it works... we can fold 2. into 1. when trans CVS _and_ Web apps can move from elvis.r.c => cvs.fedora.r.c yes are you aware of the trans going on right now? http://webtest.fedora.redhat.com/docs/translation-quick-start/ for example what docs are we talking about? pt_BR was just posted this morning http://webtest.fedora.redhat.com/docs/RELEASE-NOTES/ these are the HEAD of CVS we also have: in what format? http://fedora.redhat.com/docs/release-notes/ source is XML in CVS translators are working directly in CVS using xml2po and po2xml very archaic and manual but they are heroes, getting the job done quaid: that's exactly my point. we can facilitate these after test3 releases, we are reworking our CVS directory structure to put languages in sub-folders the Makefile all builds all languages so we can keep the actual translated XML ongoing but do translators still have to change the makefiles? yes we can automate that do u like that? no exactly! I want i18n.r.c this is what I understand: we cannot move until elvis.r.c => cvs.fedora.r.c is complete Sopwith and other community infrastructure people are willing to help but Bernd knows all and needs time to explain once the CVS move is done hooking us in should be easy cool! but i believe we can already offer these files in .po format. aalam: is that right? as far as I'm concerned, bernd won't have the time 2 do so at the moment yes we can would it be helpful if bernd joined us? to talk? quaid, surely yes one sec I'm just tryin to get people together here and hopefully offer the community the .po files exactly if bernd or someone can hook into our CVS and make it avail through i18n.r.c, great! we're ready, willing, able, etc. so, aalam, can u pls explain what u got in mind... --> bgroh (n=bgroh at 59.167.110.134) has joined #fedora-docs bgroh: g'day doctor! g'day, bgroh, thanks barz, good day barz, quaid there are very few translators in Fedora-docs project, * quaid goes to grab some lines from his buffer aalam: true about six? ten? can we not able to give access to Fedora-GUI Translators? bgroh: we wanna offer press release and release notes .po files for community trans ok bgroh: ok, I pasted the relevant chat buffer back to you on #docs, to not break the flow here that is our understanding quaid, ok, got it can we get .po files out of MoinMoin instead? basically, we'd need someone or a team around an admin to take over the status page/job claim page infrastructure the Infrastructure group could conceivably do that Sopwith is leading that, aiui, and it has community members on it as well we'd have to ask them, of course :) * quaid looks at nman64 then they could work with the admin group to get it ready for and installed on fedora.cvs and migrate and everything else would follow bgroh: so, it is a good thing that we have a robust i18n built into the Fedora Docs Makefile and common files? i.e., you can use that should be all we need is the xml->pot and po->xml part, or? aalam: btw, some of the translatros that came to Fedora Docs did not come from/through Fedora Trans, so they are going to be newbies bgroh: is that in the Makefile usually? quaid, yes otherwise, yes, that would be all you need on the Web app side yes, that would go into the makefile ok if you can point me at an example? I'll file a bug and get Tommy/Paul to work up a solution. --- Bob-Laptop-Away is now known as Bob-Laptop we'd have a make update to generate the newest po files and when it's time, the make used the po files, instead of some xml >Bob-Laptop< *psst* we're slipping release by a week, the caballistic are trying to work up an estimate, should be announcing tomorrow ... 'splains some of why I stalled this week :) we have been doing some stuff to try to make the XML diff sane it's not too difficult, just wasn't something that was worth it setting up on elvis 1. we can run xmlformat with a custom configuration against the CVS module as the content is being checked in, before it hits the repository this solves lots of local $EDITOR differences bgroh, quaid: do u have a timeline for the migration project? will it happen before FC5 launch? but we haven't tried that with any translation would we want to put xml into the repo though? barz: probably not bgroh: oh, in the /cvs/i18n repo? no, I guess not barz, I don't have a timeline, I'm simply ready to hand it off ;) <-- yeliaB[] has quit ("Leaving") +1 bgroh: I want to find a way to take the burden from you :) bgroh: I'm thinking about the line diffs that were a problem with SGML quaid, bgroh, aalam: can we have a workaround for FC5, then we make big noise translating the presse release to several different languages? quaid, just take it, it's on bob, module perl-i18n, see elvis for setup guidelines :) we're trying out some of the xmldiff tools, as well, just for our own diffing. bgroh: well, I can't shoulder the burden myself :) ... but I'll try to get someone else to :) barz: yes cool! nman64: do you know if MoinMoin can output .po files? are they are hard format to hack, the .po file? * quaid doesn't think he's seen the inside of one. btw, moin --> snowlet (n=snowlet at 60-240-151-239.tpgi.com.au) has joined #fedora- docs g'day snowlet quaid, morning snowlet: morning! morning, barz moin zam'n! ? good morning everyone! bgroh: I'm wondering about MoinMoin because it runs fedoraproject.org/wiki and they could author the press releases in an ACL restricted area, and we could spit them out and suck them back in somehow sorry I'm late otherwise, we'd have to generate .po files from ... XML? quaid, that ok too though, that's what we do with RHEL snowlet: I'm going to /msg you to give you the discussion so far from my IRC buffer, ok? just reply when I do the /msg well the thing is quaid, maybe they can spit out xliff? we don't have a Press Release stylesheet oh, I see and DocBook does not a pretty press release make wonder if we can get .po into and out of OO.org hang on! press release is a small doc, and aalam easily converted it into .po yesterday ok from what source format? plain text? we just tested with an old PR I had text2po? yep ok, that's fine quaid, sure we'll just do nice, structured text oh dunno, aalam: what tool did u use >snowlet< just type something back, and X-Chat will open a tab on my side I save *.sxw document into *xml format with openoffice ah, ic yeah, I was thinking of .sxw -> .po directly, since .sxw == a tarball of XML and directories ok, so we can do it manually for the first few times 1. SXW file is finalized by gregdek et al 2. Hands it to FDP for edits, etc. --- BobJensen-Away is now known as BobJensen 3. FDP creates XML and puts it into CVS 3.1 FDP creates .po files and puts them into CVS or something then we need to convert it back to text... and make it available to ambassadors to spread the word a press release doesn't need SXW it should be ASCII just nice whitespace usage and good blocking that's how they go out to businesswire from RHAT a wire service was traditionally a teletype machine of some kind, right? plain text was the rule :) quaid: ur plan sounds good, just the edits will be done by the FAMSCO then FAMSCO hands it to FDP translations or infrastructure to make them available in .po before bgroh: can we easily go text <==> po docs has edit approval, that's all if we find a problem, we suggest a fix :) sure! understood quaid, hmm, I suppose, depends on how strict the text format is u can give us guidelines on the format that will suit the procedure /cvs/docs/press-releases/xy/famsco-YYYY-MMM-DD-xy.txt where xy == two-letter country code we haven't settled on how we're doing the sub-directories but I just realized that would mean we should put en/ in it's own directory each with their own Makefile, etc. quaid, you can do whatever you want, as long as you tell me what format, and it's strict, we can do yeek bgroh: I was thinking of standard structured text should be fine * quaid grabs a poor example http://people.redhat.com/kwade/fedora-docs/selinux-faq- en-1.3-8.txt that was docbook2txt, iirc but the idea is the same hmmm, we'd have to decide how we split the text as in write a converter you'd certainly not want to split by newline only yeah, I don't seem to see anything written already, either paragraph, maybe... line break... neither will be good for bullet lists tell them no bullet lists? :) haha I don't want to have to make up a new tool if we can go newline, it's easy is newline same as line break? like when u press enter. sorry for my ignorance refers to the same but looking at the text, newline wouldn't make for a nice po file so should work as a paragrapgh then? or paragraph wouldn't make for a nice po file but a paragrapgh of a press release looks like a good .po file entry quaid, but you do compile form xml at the moment, or? s/form/from/ bgroh: normally, yes the press releases are vapor right now, so we can have them written in whatever format. quaid, can't we go xml->pot po->xml then? and we can output XML from SXW, then go xml -> po, po -> xml, and xml -> sxw, it will probably work :) which xml is the only question docbook? back to the stylesheets yeh, true docbook makes for ugly press releases but for good release-notes * quaid needs an XSL superstar in FDP very nice release notes,yes maybe use xml for release-notes, and see what to do with press releases? as in really really think about it yeah, the relnotes translation is a no brainer, it's happening already yes, think about it we'll take it to f-docs-l perhaps barz: ok, I'm going to start a discussion on fedora-docs-list about press-release formats for translation barz: yes, thanks, I much appreciate the schedule-eye-view * quaid sets a watch on that page those of you who understand .po files and translation please watch the discussion thread on f-docs-list quaid: that's gr8! thx! ok quaid: just 2 make things clear. r u the one leading this? of course, you can always count on us well our purvie == purview moving content from contributor to reader through the translation process so we own formats of documents, the CVS repository for documents, and conceptually every single document on the system ideally, we should be a step in the process of string freeze so we edit the strings for clarity and translatability in English, then pass on for trans, etc. anyway that's what I'm focusing on file format, approving contributions (the FAMSCO press release), and moving into and out of translation what you guys do works really well, obviously yep, i'm leading the FC5 Launch promotions, and will work 2gether with aalam and snowlet with communicating with trans list we want to plug in to you in smart ways, learning and gaining from each other by that. awesome * quaid <-- Californian in his idioms lol...so i suggest outlining the process in the wiki, then link it to the Media Plan. sounds reasonable? quaid, barz Just for conformation"how will translator work for Press-R translation" thro' *- docs project, ture? --> yeliaB (n=ed at adsl-065-005-194-118.sip.rdu.bellsouth.net) has joined #fedora-docs we haven't decided that, I guess aalam: we can make .po files available ... in our CVS structure ... or maybe just as a build target that you can (manually for now?) pull into i18n.r.c? if you want a .po file for the release-notes as well, we can give that over, too we plan on doing changes to our i18n between test3 and fc5 but maybe we can squeeze it in sooner, if it's important we may miraculously have time what that gives us is: * .po make target * directory structure /cvs/docs/release-notes/xy/ considering the multiplied noise we can make with translations I guees it's very important I mean, you could host a matching tree ... or even sync just that tree? just for this release? bgroh: I haven't wanted to ask that, but it is possible to do, you could pull the content anonymously and we could pull the sync back the same way? or what is the right way? some kind of CVS sync to tide us over ... s/tide us over/keep us working until we can migrate CVS/ I guess bgroh got tied up with something else quaid: any suggestions on how we can progress from here? quaid, would have to think about what you were saying, but if it gets too technical, I may not be the right person to ask. I'm a very bad sys admin :( :) bgroh: when do u reckon u can give us some updates? if we don't mind breaking the history of the files ... or making them unlinked for a while ... barz, updates on what? bgroh: weel, u said u gotta think about it... barz, when I get some time :) basically, if it's development stuff, it's easily done, if it has anything to do with sys admin stuff, I'm useless bgroh: where would I find a Makefile that does xml2pot and po2xml? the RHEL ones? quaid, yes do you keep the .po files in local CVS? quaid, yes, we do is there any reason you couldn't do something similar to this: l10n xml is only transition during build CVSROOT=cvs.fedora:/cvs/docs (short version) sorry just check out a local copy of the .po files from the /cvs/docs ? and point the i18n workbench at it? this is all just until we can fix it right ... but ... we could then have a person go locally and use a CVS account to check all the .po files back into cvs.fedora:/cvs/docs/release-notes/xy/po-files/ could be possible in theory, but I'd think there'd be some things to do still even do it unattended, using phraseless sshkeys I doubt we could use our RHEL infrastructure for Fedora reason being that it's customized for our build sys barz, aalam, snowlet: this is where I have to hand the resource request back to you oh, sure I mean the Fedora infrastructure for example, there are some global workarounds that apply to the software installed on our build machine and apply to our langs barz, aalam, snowlet: you need to find someone who can do system administration tasks with the various web applications and work to hook this in ... it could be Sopwith (Elliot Lee), nman64, and the rest of the Infrastructure/Web teams hmmm, maybe I need to take some time later to clearly think about what you've said bgroh: ok all: I am going to post a slightly edited version of this IRC log to fedora-docs-list for our reference, as well as the other people we are asking to think about these things with us quaid: gr8! all: can we wrap this meeting up? 5.... 4... 3... 2... 1... barz, quaid, I did not get Happy New Year!!! hehehe how translator can work? aalam: quaid will send an email to f-docs list explaining the idea for discussion which account will they use? Fedora-GUI or docs? those are my questions:) barz, Fedora-GUI would be better. translators are there 1. we need to give bgroh a chance to thinkk about it 2. you three need to see if you can find some technical help to take over the i18n.r.c from bgroh I will help you with 2. from those will come our next steps we _want_ .po files on i18n.r.c and available through Fedora-GUI for press release and release notes but it may take some hacks or someone taking over the migration and making it happen in the next few weeks we need to raise this to gregdek's attention if we need help getting resources quaid: maybe u can copy FAMSCO list on ur email snowlet, aalam: does that answer your questions for now? barz: it's moderated, but I'll put it on the Cc: quaid, no more! thanks for explaining again still, this email is about press release format quaid, ok. i'll also update the media plan accordingly so pp know what's goin on to get resources, you need to contact sopwith at redhat.com, and/or file bugzilla requests against Fedora Infrastructure what kinda resources? quaid, yes barz: infrastructure resources. ok barz: who can i) move CVS, ii) take over Web apps, etc. I thought that maybe we had all resources in this meeting quaid, bgroh: but u guys know it better barz: technical resources, which of us can solve those problems? Perl programmers, CVS gurus, etc. not i :D * Bob-Laptop looks for a BIG rock to hide behind quaid: ok, got it all: can we pls close this meeting? and not I (depsite being a perl programmer) almost 2hs now barz, yes :) sure~ quaid: we'll leave the next steps to you then - email to f-docs, resources gathering... is that ok? does anyone know how to save this log? window -> save text barz, eagle eyes~ :) snowlet, u can keep automatic logging Setting->Pref->Chatting- >Logging (Enable) alright guys, i'll get goin. thx 4 all ur support! really hope we can make it. FC5 will be a big splash! all over the world! that can take up a fair amount of disk space when you are in 10 Channels 24/7 aalam, thanks. that would be super helpful see you all! Bye barz see you, BobJensen! <-- barz has quit ("fui!") punk he still thinks I'm doing resources gathering :P -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: signature.asc Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 189 bytes Desc: This is a digitally signed message part URL: From stuart at elsn.org Fri Feb 3 00:35:28 2006 From: stuart at elsn.org (Stuart Ellis) Date: Fri, 03 Feb 2006 00:35:28 +0000 Subject: Installation Guide Status Message-ID: <1138926928.2826.53.camel@localhost.localdomain> Just to note that we are not likely to have a complete Guide in time for the scheduled trans freeze tomorrow. The text may not match current (i.e. rawhide/test3) package selection screens. I'm also working on the screenshots. -- Stuart Ellis stuart at elsn.org Fedora Documentation Project: http://fedora.redhat.com/projects/docs/ GPG key ID: 7098ABEA GPG key fingerprint: 68B0 E291 FB19 C845 E60E 9569 292E E365 7098 ABEA -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: signature.asc Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 189 bytes Desc: This is a digitally signed message part URL: From kwade at redhat.com Fri Feb 3 00:57:15 2006 From: kwade at redhat.com (Karsten Wade) Date: Thu, 02 Feb 2006 16:57:15 -0800 Subject: press release format, for translation too Message-ID: <1138928236.27661.36.camel@erato.phig.org> We want to be able to translate Fedora press releases using our existing systems, and we need to figure out a format that works best. We need .po files for the translation, the question is, what to write in and how to get them. Here are the choices we cooked up on IRC today[1]: 1. Formatted ASCII text. We'd have to write a custom text2po and po2text, with strict formatting rules on the TXT side. 2. DocBook XML Proven, but the stylesheets do not make a pretty press release. If an XSL fanatic would make a nice stylesheet for us ... 3. OO.o SXW -> XML -> .po -> XML -> SXW No one has experimented with this yet, but it could work conceivably. If it doesn't work, we could manually unpack the SXW and work on the XML directly. I reckon that would work. 4. Wiki -> .po Theoretically possible, but no idea if it's been done. What do you think about all this? - Karsten [1] Full log of the chat, provides all the technical details known: http://www.redhat.com/archives/fedora-docs-list/2006-February/msg00026.html -- Karsten Wade, RHCE * Sr. Tech Writer * http://people.redhat.com/kwade/ gpg fingerprint: 2680 DBFD D968 3141 0115 5F1B D992 0E06 AD0E 0C41 Content Services Fedora Documentation Project http://www.redhat.com/docs http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/DocsProject -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: signature.asc Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 189 bytes Desc: This is a digitally signed message part URL: From stickster at gmail.com Fri Feb 3 04:04:02 2006 From: stickster at gmail.com (Paul W. Frields) Date: Thu, 02 Feb 2006 23:04:02 -0500 Subject: Eclipse for XML authoring In-Reply-To: <1138827848.5151.482.camel@erato.phig.org> References: <1138827848.5151.482.camel@erato.phig.org> Message-ID: <1138939442.4341.56.camel@localhost.localdomain> On Wed, 2006-02-01 at 13:04 -0800, Karsten Wade wrote: > http://www.eclipse.org/articles/Article-Authoring-With-Eclipse/AuthoringWithEclipse.html > > I understand there are a few factual errors, but the basic ideas can > work. I'm looking into which plug-in(s) are needed to make this work, > so we can get them into Extras or the eclipse packaging. It uses FOP > for PDF generation > > One of the plug-ins is fopbridge: > > http://www.eclipse-plugins.info/eclipse/plugin_details.jsp;jsessionid=E70C3A5C0B3E635C87C7795874D40D00?id=942 > > (The canonical http://www.ahmadsoft.org/fopbridge.html is expired.) > > Another XML editor based on Eclipse is referenced, Vex: > > http://vex.sourceforge.net/ The built-in authoring the authors spend most of their time on is somewhat problematic in Fedora Eclipse with GCJ, AFAICT. I get a boatload of errors when I try to perform any related task in Eclipse. (I am using GCJ only, no Sun Java installed.) However, Vex seems to work *great*. The only problem I see is that you need to have a good understanding of DocBook and a general knowledge of SGML (how to nest elements) before you get started. To install, I added Vex using the software update feature and the associated URL provided at the Vex site. If you know those things, then it's perfectly workable, albeit far more cumbersome than Emacs or vi. It's also somewhat WYSIWYM (M == "Mean"), with nice CSS that renders your content onscreen. I haven't tried yet to impose our CSS on it to see if I can get that to work, but I will when I get a Round Tuit. Files can be validated by right clicking in the project window on the file resource. Vex does DTD grammar checking and exposes attributes in the property window just as it should. If it were faster and slimmer, it might classify as a Conglomerate-killer, no slight intended of course. -- Paul W. Frields, RHCE http://paul.frields.org/ gpg fingerprint: 3DA6 A0AC 6D58 FEC4 0233 5906 ACDB C937 BD11 3717 Fedora Documentation Project: http://fedora.redhat.com/projects/docs/ -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: signature.asc Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 189 bytes Desc: This is a digitally signed message part URL: From Tommy.Reynolds at MegaCoder.com Fri Feb 3 04:30:30 2006 From: Tommy.Reynolds at MegaCoder.com (Tommy Reynolds) Date: Thu, 2 Feb 2006 22:30:30 -0600 Subject: Eclipse for XML authoring In-Reply-To: <1138939442.4341.56.camel@localhost.localdomain> References: <1138827848.5151.482.camel@erato.phig.org> <1138939442.4341.56.camel@localhost.localdomain> Message-ID: <20060202223030.9e2fa87f.Tommy.Reynolds@MegaCoder.com> Uttered "Paul W. Frields" , spake thus: > However, Vex seems to work *great*. The only problem I see is that you > need to have a good understanding of DocBook and a general knowledge of > SGML (how to nest elements) before you get started. Were you able to import an existing document, such as "example-tutorial-en.xml"? I got a fatal error when I tried. Cheers From Tommy.Reynolds at MegaCoder.com Fri Feb 3 04:38:17 2006 From: Tommy.Reynolds at MegaCoder.com (Tommy Reynolds) Date: Thu, 2 Feb 2006 22:38:17 -0600 Subject: press release format, for translation too In-Reply-To: <1138928236.27661.36.camel@erato.phig.org> References: <1138928236.27661.36.camel@erato.phig.org> Message-ID: <20060202223817.3b563bf6.Tommy.Reynolds@MegaCoder.com> Uttered Karsten Wade , spake thus: > 1. Formatted ASCII text. > We'd have to write a custom text2po and po2text, with strict > formatting rules on the TXT side. Got an example of the formatting you like? The custom scripts don't sound hard. > 2. DocBook XML > Proven, but the stylesheets do not make a pretty press release. If > an XSL fanatic would make a nice stylesheet for us ... Got an example of a pretty press release you like? Idea: XML -> PO -> XML -> XSL -> TXT > 3. OO.o SXW -> XML -> .po -> XML -> SXW > No one has experimented with this yet, but it could work > conceivably. If it doesn't work, we could manually unpack the SXW > and work on the XML directly. I reckon that would work. IIRC, OO.o doesn't import DocBook XML, although I seem to remember a 3rd party add-on on sf.net somewhere. > 4. Wiki -> .po > Theoretically possible, but no idea if it's been done. Sorry, I don't do GUI's. > What do you think about all this? In general, we should be able to use the FDP infrastructure for this but I'm reserving judgement until I can see some examples of the desired results. Cheers From Tommy.Reynolds at MegaCoder.com Fri Feb 3 04:48:26 2006 From: Tommy.Reynolds at MegaCoder.com (Tommy Reynolds) Date: Thu, 2 Feb 2006 22:48:26 -0600 Subject: Eclipse for XML authoring In-Reply-To: <1138939442.4341.56.camel@localhost.localdomain> References: <1138827848.5151.482.camel@erato.phig.org> <1138939442.4341.56.camel@localhost.localdomain> Message-ID: <20060202224826.fb630037.Tommy.Reynolds@MegaCoder.com> Uttered "Paul W. Frields" , spake thus: > However, Vex seems to work *great*. I installed Vex into an eclipse.org 3.1.2 version, using Sun java. I had to increase the allowable size of virtual memory for the java machine (-vmargs -Xmx512m). When I did this, I was able to import the "example-tutorial-en.xml" file without any problems. If you recall, I got a fatal error trying this with the natively-compiled eclipse from the RPM. Can somebody (HEY JAVA DUDES!) recompile Vex using the Fedora eclipse, without the Sun java stuff? Cheers From kwade at redhat.com Fri Feb 3 15:15:42 2006 From: kwade at redhat.com (Karsten Wade) Date: Fri, 03 Feb 2006 07:15:42 -0800 Subject: press release format, for translation too In-Reply-To: <20060202223817.3b563bf6.Tommy.Reynolds@MegaCoder.com> References: <1138928236.27661.36.camel@erato.phig.org> <20060202223817.3b563bf6.Tommy.Reynolds@MegaCoder.com> Message-ID: <1138979742.27661.128.camel@erato.phig.org> mOn Thu, 2006-02-02 at 22:38 -0600, Tommy Reynolds wrote: > Uttered Karsten Wade , spake thus: > > > 1. Formatted ASCII text. > > We'd have to write a custom text2po and po2text, with strict > > formatting rules on the TXT side. > > Got an example of the formatting you like? The custom scripts don't > sound hard. Take a stroll through the IRC log (link below), searching for "newline" to see where we discussed this with Bernd. It doesn't sound too hard, but the problem I see is human. The format has to be strict for the in-to/out-of .po to work. With XML, the format is within the XML, if the document is valid, we're clear. With the text, we'd have to either write a validate tool or rely upon humans to continue to get the strict formatting correct. Regardless, this -seemed- like too much work before FC5, since that is what the first need is about. > > 2. DocBook XML > > Proven, but the stylesheets do not make a pretty press release. If > > an XSL fanatic would make a nice stylesheet for us ... > > Got an example of a pretty press release you like? IMO, it should be like what are delivered to Business Wire. Plain text, written to follow a non-bylined journalistic style: http://biz.yahoo.com/bw/060131/20060131005159.html?.v=1 Actually, it's possible that arrives as an RTF file, then BW converts it to HTML formatted. Maybe we should work in XHTML? > Idea: XML -> PO -> XML -> XSL -> TXT Yes, as long as we can fill that XSL spot properly. Plain docbook2txt might work for that, it's pretty generic and doesn't have the DocBook- looking page HTML page layout. > > 3. OO.o SXW -> XML -> .po -> XML -> SXW > > No one has experimented with this yet, but it could work > > conceivably. If it doesn't work, we could manually unpack the SXW > > and work on the XML directly. I reckon that would work. > > IIRC, OO.o doesn't import DocBook XML, although I seem to remember a > 3rd party add-on on sf.net somewhere. I was thinking just Save As > XML. AIUI, aalam has done this, and it worked. The key here is, don't mess with the XML. Then we have the best chance of pulling it back into the SXW file. Upside to this is, many of the people who write press releases are perfectly comfortable with OO.org as an $EDITOR. > In general, we should be able to use the FDP infrastructure for this > but I'm reserving judgement until I can see some examples of the > desired results. Right now to get through FC5 needs, we are looking at this: 1. FDP produces .po files 2. FTrans pulls .po files into i18n.r.c (CVS checkout or replication?) 3. FDP pulls translated .po files into cvs.fedora.r.c (CVS co or manual commit?) If we do this fast enough, we could get the release notes .po files into i18n.r.c in time to get all the translations back and into the ISOs. Wow! In the post-FC5 future, we are looking at this: 1. cvs.fedora has /cvs/docs and /cvs/trans 2. The webapp (i18n.r.c tools) is adjusted to easily check-out/check- in .po files directly from /cvs/docs/* 3. FDP continues to host its own translations Then it's all automagic and we get to sit back and enjoy our $BEVERAGE. Does that make sense? - Karsten -- Karsten Wade, RHCE * Sr. Tech Writer * http://people.redhat.com/kwade/ gpg fingerprint: 2680 DBFD D968 3141 0115 5F1B D992 0E06 AD0E 0C41 Content Services Fedora Documentation Project http://www.redhat.com/docs http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/DocsProject -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: signature.asc Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 189 bytes Desc: This is a digitally signed message part URL: From kwade at redhat.com Fri Feb 3 15:18:52 2006 From: kwade at redhat.com (Karsten Wade) Date: Fri, 03 Feb 2006 07:18:52 -0800 Subject: Eclipse for XML authoring In-Reply-To: <1138939442.4341.56.camel@localhost.localdomain> References: <1138827848.5151.482.camel@erato.phig.org> <1138939442.4341.56.camel@localhost.localdomain> Message-ID: <1138979932.27661.131.camel@erato.phig.org> On Thu, 2006-02-02 at 23:04 -0500, Paul W. Frields wrote: > The built-in authoring the authors spend most of their time on is > somewhat problematic in Fedora Eclipse with GCJ, AFAICT. I get a > boatload of errors when I try to perform any related task in Eclipse. > (I am using GCJ only, no Sun Java installed.) My understand is this is all being worked on, so we can expect ecj to be able to handle this eventually. - Karsten -- Karsten Wade, RHCE * Sr. Tech Writer * http://people.redhat.com/kwade/ gpg fingerprint: 2680 DBFD D968 3141 0115 5F1B D992 0E06 AD0E 0C41 Content Services Fedora Documentation Project http://www.redhat.com/docs http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/DocsProject -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: signature.asc Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 189 bytes Desc: This is a digitally signed message part URL: From kwade at redhat.com Fri Feb 3 15:52:33 2006 From: kwade at redhat.com (Karsten Wade) Date: Fri, 03 Feb 2006 07:52:33 -0800 Subject: [Fwd: CVSROOT cvsignore,1.2,1.3] Message-ID: <1138981953.27661.136.camel@erato.phig.org> -------- Forwarded Message -------- From: Tommy Reynolds To: cvsdocs-administrators at fedora.redhat.com > Log Message: > Never archive ".po" files because they are ALWAYS a local work in > progress. Unless you are running a translation CVS. We may need to reconsider this idea, because we are going to continue to host the translations of Fedora documentation. So, doesn't this mean we need to be canonical for the .po files? release-notes/en/*-en.xml release-notes/en/po/*.po - Karsten -- Karsten Wade, RHCE * Sr. Tech Writer * http://people.redhat.com/kwade/ gpg fingerprint: 2680 DBFD D968 3141 0115 5F1B D992 0E06 AD0E 0C41 Content Services Fedora Documentation Project http://www.redhat.com/docs http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/DocsProject -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: signature.asc Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 189 bytes Desc: This is a digitally signed message part URL: From Tommy.Reynolds at MegaCoder.com Fri Feb 3 15:54:20 2006 From: Tommy.Reynolds at MegaCoder.com (Tommy Reynolds) Date: Fri, 3 Feb 2006 09:54:20 -0600 Subject: [Fwd: CVSROOT cvsignore,1.2,1.3] In-Reply-To: <1138981953.27661.136.camel@erato.phig.org> References: <1138981953.27661.136.camel@erato.phig.org> Message-ID: <20060203095420.62afe275.Tommy.Reynolds@MegaCoder.com> Uttered Karsten Wade , spake thus: > > Never archive ".po" files because they are ALWAYS a local work in > > progress. > Unless you are running a translation CVS. > We may need to reconsider this idea, because we are going to continue to > host the translations of Fedora documentation. > So, doesn't this mean we need to be canonical for the .po files? > release-notes/en/*-en.xml > release-notes/en/po/*.po Horse. Cart. Order matters ;-) From Tommy.Reynolds at MegaCoder.com Fri Feb 3 15:57:21 2006 From: Tommy.Reynolds at MegaCoder.com (Tommy Reynolds) Date: Fri, 3 Feb 2006 09:57:21 -0600 Subject: [Fwd: CVSROOT cvsignore,1.2,1.3] In-Reply-To: <1138981953.27661.136.camel@erato.phig.org> References: <1138981953.27661.136.camel@erato.phig.org> Message-ID: <20060203095721.fe1c8c44.Tommy.Reynolds@MegaCoder.com> Uttered Karsten Wade , spake thus: > So, doesn't this mean we need to be canonical for the .po files? > release-notes/en/*-en.xml > release-notes/en/po/*.po When do you want this partitioning into subdirs to take place? I don't see the necessity for subdir'ing the .po files unless that is the expected convention. Is it? Cheers From kwade at redhat.com Fri Feb 3 16:43:24 2006 From: kwade at redhat.com (Karsten Wade) Date: Fri, 03 Feb 2006 08:43:24 -0800 Subject: [Fwd: CVSROOT cvsignore,1.2,1.3] In-Reply-To: <20060203095721.fe1c8c44.Tommy.Reynolds@MegaCoder.com> References: <1138981953.27661.136.camel@erato.phig.org> <20060203095721.fe1c8c44.Tommy.Reynolds@MegaCoder.com> Message-ID: <1138985004.27661.161.camel@erato.phig.org> On Fri, 2006-02-03 at 09:57 -0600, Tommy Reynolds wrote: > Uttered Karsten Wade , spake thus: > > > So, doesn't this mean we need to be canonical for the .po files? > > release-notes/en/*-en.xml > > release-notes/en/po/*.po > > When do you want this partitioning into subdirs to take place? If we do it immediately, we may be able to get the release notes into the translation system for test3. https://bugzilla.redhat.com/bugzilla/show_bug.cgi?id=179799 > I don't see the necessity for subdir'ing the .po files unless that is > the expected convention. Is it? No idea, just a proposal. Sure, then can live side-by-side with the XML. If we were all on the same CVS, we could let trans hold the .po files. Unfortunately, we're not, and by the time we are, we'll just continue to host the translations. - Karsten -- Karsten Wade, RHCE * Sr. Tech Writer * http://people.redhat.com/kwade/ gpg fingerprint: 2680 DBFD D968 3141 0115 5F1B D992 0E06 AD0E 0C41 Content Services Fedora Documentation Project http://www.redhat.com/docs http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/DocsProject -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: signature.asc Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 189 bytes Desc: This is a digitally signed message part URL: From Tommy.Reynolds at MegaCoder.com Fri Feb 3 17:44:21 2006 From: Tommy.Reynolds at MegaCoder.com (Tommy Reynolds) Date: Fri, 3 Feb 2006 11:44:21 -0600 Subject: [Fwd: CVSROOT cvsignore,1.2,1.3] In-Reply-To: <1138985004.27661.161.camel@erato.phig.org> References: <1138981953.27661.136.camel@erato.phig.org> <20060203095721.fe1c8c44.Tommy.Reynolds@MegaCoder.com> <1138985004.27661.161.camel@erato.phig.org> Message-ID: <20060203114421.9d07b073.Tommy.Reynolds@MegaCoder.com> Uttered Karsten Wade , spake thus: > If we do it immediately, we may be able to get the release notes into > the translation system for test3. OK, I've got the Makefile.common, et. al., changes ready to check in. I took the liberty of changing the "example-tutorial" setup to reflect the new standard. We don't really need Sopwith to do the CVS-fu after all. Document authors can just create the necessary subdirs themselves, sort of like this: $ mkdir en de $ cvs add en de $ cp *-en.xml en/ $ cp rpm-info.xml en/rpm-info-en.xml $ cvs add en/*.xml $ cp *-de.xml de/ $ cp rpm-info.xml de/rpm-info-de.xml $ cvs add de/*.xml $ vi Makefile <== Adjust paths to XMLEXTRAFILES-${LANG} files. $ cvs rm -f *.xml $ cvs commit -m'Split into per-language subdirs' N.B.: RPM packaging is broken until further notice. Cheers From Tommy.Reynolds at MegaCoder.com Fri Feb 3 18:30:15 2006 From: Tommy.Reynolds at MegaCoder.com (Tommy Reynolds) Date: Fri, 3 Feb 2006 12:30:15 -0600 Subject: [ANN] Mandatory new directory structure Message-ID: <20060203123015.b42a9ba3.Tommy.Reynolds@MegaCoder.com> Hello, Doc'ers! In order to better support the translation effort, we need to reorganize the required directory structure a bit, to better parallel the current translation group practices. The idea is to place the XML files for each language into a separate subdirectory. For instance, the "example-tutorial" document as the following structure: $ ls -CF CVS/ Makefile de/ en/ $ ls -CF en CVS/ example-tutorial-en.xml para-en.xml rpm-info-en.xml Each document owner should do this: 1) Create a separate directory for each language supported by the XML. Use the "en" locale for the English translation, for now, even though that isn't a real locale. 2) Add the per-language subdirectories to CVS 3) Copy the *-${LANG}.xml files into the ${LANG}/ subdirectory. 4) Add the ${LANG}/*.xml files to CVS 5) Drop the top-level XML files once you've moved them like this: $ cvs rm -f *-${LANG}.xml 6) Commit your changes. The shell script "docs-common/bin/migrate-lang" will do steps 1-4 for you and commit your additions. For safety's sake, it does NOT delete your top-level XML files as shown in step #5: do that yourself when the subdirs are correct. Use the script like this: $ cd example-tutorial $ ../docs-common/bin/migrate-lang | sh I.E., the "migrate-lang" script outputs the actual shell commands needed to do the work, but you must pipe those commands into another shell to actually change anything. HTH From stickster at gmail.com Sat Feb 4 01:38:22 2006 From: stickster at gmail.com (Paul W. Frields) Date: Fri, 03 Feb 2006 20:38:22 -0500 Subject: fedora-doc-common RPM specfile In-Reply-To: <1138861907.23767.13.camel@ignacio.lan> References: <1138756672.25455.10.camel@localhost.localdomain> <1138827013.5151.472.camel@erato.phig.org> <1138830627.8750.10.camel@localhost.localdomain> <1138861907.23767.13.camel@ignacio.lan> Message-ID: <1139017102.4215.30.camel@localhost.localdomain> On Thu, 2006-02-02 at 01:31 -0500, Ignacio Vazquez-Abrams wrote: > On Wed, 2006-02-01 at 16:50 -0500, Paul W. Frields wrote: > > http://cvs.fedora.redhat.com/viewcvs/docs-common/packaging/fedora-doc-common.spec?root=docs&view=markup > > - Version and release ought to be in the file itself, not done via > macros > - Is there a reason why release is used where the version normally would > be? > - $RPM_BUILD_DIR with the -n value from %setup is the current directory > for %build and %install so you can remove > $RPM_BUILD_DIR/%{name}-%{release}/ everywhere > - Why is %{_datadir}/fedora/doc/docs-common/common/ marked %docdir? > - %{_datadir}/fedora isn't owned by the package > - Unable to verify khelpcenter directory ownership > - No changelog entry These changes have now all been made. I used %release originally because I thought there might be some value in using "cvsYYYYMMDD" on the tarball, but this was actually pretty irrelevant. Because we have to roll a new tarball anyway, we might as well simply assign a version number as we go, and tag CVS appropriately. "0.2" does not exist yet but it will when I finish the other packaging bits this weekend (fates willing and the creek don't rise). http://cvs.fedora.redhat.com/viewcvs/docs-common/packaging/fedora-doc-common.spec?root=docs&view=markup -- Paul W. Frields, RHCE http://paul.frields.org/ gpg fingerprint: 3DA6 A0AC 6D58 FEC4 0233 5906 ACDB C937 BD11 3717 Fedora Documentation Project: http://fedora.redhat.com/projects/docs/ -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: signature.asc Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 189 bytes Desc: This is a digitally signed message part URL: From kwade at redhat.com Sat Feb 4 03:35:47 2006 From: kwade at redhat.com (Karsten Wade) Date: Fri, 03 Feb 2006 19:35:47 -0800 Subject: Installation Guide Status In-Reply-To: <1138926928.2826.53.camel@localhost.localdomain> References: <1138926928.2826.53.camel@localhost.localdomain> Message-ID: <1139024147.27661.174.camel@erato.phig.org> On Fri, 2006-02-03 at 00:35 +0000, Stuart Ellis wrote: > Just to note that we are not likely to have a complete Guide in time for > the scheduled trans freeze tomorrow. The text may not match current > (i.e. rawhide/test3) package selection screens. I'm also working on the > screenshots. I just updated the schedule for the test3 slip announced today: http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/DocsProject/Schedule The new guide freeze for translation is 10 Feb., guide freeze for test3 release is 18 Feb. - Karsten -- Karsten Wade, RHCE * Sr. Tech Writer * http://people.redhat.com/kwade/ gpg fingerprint: 2680 DBFD D968 3141 0115 5F1B D992 0E06 AD0E 0C41 Content Services Fedora Documentation Project http://www.redhat.com/docs http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/DocsProject -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: signature.asc Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 189 bytes Desc: This is a digitally signed message part URL: From kwade at redhat.com Sat Feb 4 03:37:03 2006 From: kwade at redhat.com (Karsten Wade) Date: Fri, 03 Feb 2006 19:37:03 -0800 Subject: trans freeze slips one week Message-ID: <1139024223.27661.177.camel@erato.phig.org> Because FC5 test3 is slipping one week ... and also because I don't have the new XML files from the Wiki yet ... New trans freeze for test3 relnotes is 6 February 2006, this coming Monday, at Midnight UTC. http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/DocsProject/Schedule#preview I will send out a status update announcement by 08.00 UTC on Monday (5 Feb.). - Karsten -- Karsten Wade, RHCE * Sr. Tech Writer * http://people.redhat.com/kwade/ gpg fingerprint: 2680 DBFD D968 3141 0115 5F1B D992 0E06 AD0E 0C41 Content Services Fedora Documentation Project http://www.redhat.com/docs http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/DocsProject -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: signature.asc Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 189 bytes Desc: This is a digitally signed message part URL: From stickster at gmail.com Sat Feb 4 06:05:31 2006 From: stickster at gmail.com (Paul W. Frields) Date: Sat, 04 Feb 2006 01:05:31 -0500 Subject: Packaging status Message-ID: <1139033131.4215.42.camel@localhost.localdomain> I have the package building working again to coincide with the change in CVS organization. I don't think I've increased the fragility any, but I'd appreciate input of course. I tagged the module files as 'pre-package2' before I commited any changes, and 'package2' afterward, so it should be easy to revert if something is so borked or ugly that we can't live with it. (I'm thinking only of a "learn from my mistakes" standpoint there, but there may be value for other people too, I guess.) Comments and issues welcome... exspecially if you file them in Bugzilla under Fedora Documentation, docs-common module. (Karsten is the owner of this bug, but Tommy and I get cc'd on them automatically so you can be sure we'll see your issue.) -- Paul W. Frields, RHCE http://paul.frields.org/ gpg fingerprint: 3DA6 A0AC 6D58 FEC4 0233 5906 ACDB C937 BD11 3717 Fedora Documentation Project: http://fedora.redhat.com/projects/docs/ -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: signature.asc Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 189 bytes Desc: This is a digitally signed message part URL: From kwade at redhat.com Sat Feb 4 06:17:45 2006 From: kwade at redhat.com (Karsten Wade) Date: Fri, 03 Feb 2006 22:17:45 -0800 Subject: relnotes praise from LWN review Message-ID: <1139033865.27661.195.camel@erato.phig.org> Some good comments in here about the quality of the release notes in test2: http://lwn.net/SubscriberLink/170154/cb03a738fdba0f0f/ If anyone with an account wants to, please add a comment directing readers to http://fedora.redhat.com/docs/release-notes and mention the number of languages the relnotes are translated to _for_the_test_release_. :) - Karsten -- Karsten Wade, RHCE * Sr. Tech Writer * http://people.redhat.com/kwade/ gpg fingerprint: 2680 DBFD D968 3141 0115 5F1B D992 0E06 AD0E 0C41 Content Services Fedora Documentation Project http://www.redhat.com/docs http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/DocsProject -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: signature.asc Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 189 bytes Desc: This is a digitally signed message part URL: From Tommy.Reynolds at MegaCoder.com Sat Feb 4 14:39:03 2006 From: Tommy.Reynolds at MegaCoder.com (Tommy Reynolds) Date: Sat, 4 Feb 2006 08:39:03 -0600 Subject: selinux-faq rpm-info.xml,1.1,1.2 In-Reply-To: <200602041431.k14EVYAG003650@cvs-int.fedora.redhat.com> References: <200602041431.k14EVYAG003650@cvs-int.fedora.redhat.com> Message-ID: <20060204083903.684da715.Tommy.Reynolds@MegaCoder.com> Uttered "Paul W. Frields" (pfrields) , spake thus: > Only use version number for doc revisions. This probably needs to be > policed in the docs-common module. If you use the "make clog" target, > you get nice prompts for everything, which reduces confusion for some > people (YMMV). > - > + This is why I liked my original one-edit,one-revision format w/o the role attribute ;-) Cheers From stickster at gmail.com Sat Feb 4 15:01:00 2006 From: stickster at gmail.com (Paul W. Frields) Date: Sat, 04 Feb 2006 10:01:00 -0500 Subject: Another question In-Reply-To: <1138432230.3253.4.camel@grafica.3dwebzone.org> References: <1138385813.15336.12.camel@localhost.localdomain> <1138432230.3253.4.camel@grafica.3dwebzone.org> Message-ID: <1139065261.3188.13.camel@localhost.localdomain> On Sat, 2006-01-28 at 02:10 -0500, Francesco Tombolini wrote: > Il giorno ven, 27/01/2006 alle 10.16 -0800, Paul W. Frields ha scritto: > > Would it be easier for translators if we > > moved to using "rpm-info-en.xml", "rpm-info-de.xml", etc.? Comments > > welcome. > > I think it would be more intuitive... than check for comments or tags in > the xml file... I am having some second thoughts about this. The lure of i18n'ing this file just like all others is very strong, but there are some significant problems it creates which weren't apparent to me at first blush. For example, RPM changelogs also come out of this file for our packaging process. Those are normally not translated. This would mean the confusion created by requiring translators *not* to translate certain parts of the new rpm-info-*.xml files would be roughly equal to the situation we had before. Worse, though, it represents a possibility of mismatch in the RPMs, or at least the appearance of mismatch when translations are out of sync with the English versions at packaging time. More discussion is welcome, with an eye toward rolling some docs out the door into Fedora Extras at or near FC5t3 release. Tommy normally catches me when I think up Bad Ideas, so I could be wrong in thinking we need to change course. -- Paul W. Frields, RHCE http://paul.frields.org/ gpg fingerprint: 3DA6 A0AC 6D58 FEC4 0233 5906 ACDB C937 BD11 3717 Fedora Documentation Project: http://fedora.redhat.com/projects/docs/ -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: signature.asc Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 189 bytes Desc: This is a digitally signed message part URL: From kwade at redhat.com Sat Feb 4 18:18:28 2006 From: kwade at redhat.com (Karsten Wade) Date: Sat, 04 Feb 2006 10:18:28 -0800 Subject: selinux-faq/it selinux-faq-it.xml,1.1,1.2 In-Reply-To: <200602041725.k14HPxqH011332@cvs-int.fedora.redhat.com> References: <200602041725.k14HPxqH011332@cvs-int.fedora.redhat.com> Message-ID: <1139077108.27661.240.camel@erato.phig.org> Francesco: BTW, there is someone working on the FC5 version right now. You may want to wait until he has the content updated before translating. There is a freeze date for guides to be translated for FC5, which is 10 February. - Karsten On Sat, 2006-02-04 at 12:25 -0500, Francesco Tombolini wrote: > Author: tombo > > Update of /cvs/docs/selinux-faq/it > In directory cvs-int.fedora.redhat.com:/tmp/cvs-serv11306 > > Modified Files: > selinux-faq-it.xml > Log Message: > updated path to FEDORA-ENTITIES-IT > > > Index: selinux-faq-it.xml > =================================================================== > RCS file: /cvs/docs/selinux-faq/it/selinux-faq-it.xml,v > retrieving revision 1.1 > retrieving revision 1.2 > diff -u -r1.1 -r1.2 > --- selinux-faq-it.xml 4 Feb 2006 14:45:42 -0000 1.1 > +++ selinux-faq-it.xml 4 Feb 2006 17:25:51 -0000 1.2 > @@ -3,7 +3,7 @@ > "http://www.oasis-open.org/docbook/xml/4.2/docbookx.dtd" [ > > > - > + > %FEDORA-ENTITIES-IT; > > > > -- > Fedora-docs-commits mailing list > Fedora-docs-commits at redhat.com > https://www.redhat.com/mailman/listinfo/fedora-docs-commits -- Karsten Wade, RHCE * Sr. Tech Writer * http://people.redhat.com/kwade/ gpg fingerprint: 2680 DBFD D968 3141 0115 5F1B D992 0E06 AD0E 0C41 Content Services Fedora Documentation Project http://www.redhat.com/docs http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/DocsProject -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: signature.asc Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 189 bytes Desc: This is a digitally signed message part URL: From kwade at redhat.com Sat Feb 4 18:25:48 2006 From: kwade at redhat.com (Karsten Wade) Date: Sat, 04 Feb 2006 10:25:48 -0800 Subject: selinux-faq selinux-faq-en.xml,1.25,1.26 In-Reply-To: <200602032241.k13Mf31M002765@cvs-int.fedora.redhat.com> References: <200602032241.k13Mf31M002765@cvs-int.fedora.redhat.com> Message-ID: <1139077548.27661.246.camel@erato.phig.org> BTW, there is a freeze date of 10 Feb. Midnight UTC for getting guides, such as this one, translated. Plan to get all of your FC5 changes in by that date. We'll tag a freeze at that point, and you can continue writing at that point. We'll arrange translation freezes for new content later, such as the final FC5 content freeze for guides on 03 Mar. On Fri, 2006-02-03 at 17:41 -0500, Chad Sellers wrote: > Author: csellers > > Update of /cvs/docs/selinux-faq > In directory cvs-int.fedora.redhat.com:/tmp/cvs-serv2745 > > Modified Files: > selinux-faq-en.xml > Log Message: > First cut at an CF5 FAQ. Still missing several necessary new items, but > old items should be consistent with FC5 now. > > > > Index: selinux-faq-en.xml > =================================================================== > RCS file: /cvs/docs/selinux-faq/selinux-faq-en.xml,v > retrieving revision 1.25 > retrieving revision 1.26 > diff -u -r1.25 -r1.26 > --- selinux-faq-en.xml 29 Jun 2005 14:51:04 -0000 1.25 > +++ selinux-faq-en.xml 3 Feb 2006 22:40:55 -0000 1.26 > @@ -6,11 +6,11 @@ > > %FEDORA-ENTITIES-EN; > > - > + > > > > - > + > > "https://bugzilla.redhat.com/bugzilla/enter_bug.cgi?product=Fedora%20Core&op_sys=Linux&version=fc3&component=fedora-docs&component_text=&rep_platform=All&priority=normal&bug_severity=normal&bug_status=NEW&assigned_to=kwade%40redhat.com&cc=&estimated_time=0.0&bug_file_loc=http%3A%2F%2Ffedora.redhat.com%2Fdocs%2Fselinux-faq-fc3%2F&short_desc=SELinux%20FAQ%20-%20%5Bsummarize%20FAQ%20change%20or%20addition%5D&comment=Description%20of%20change%2FFAQ%20addition.%20%20If%20a%20change%2C%20include%20the%20original%0D%0Atext%20first%2C%20then%20the%20changed%20text%3A%0D%0A%0D%0A%0D%0A%0D%0AVersion-Release&percn! > t;20of%20FAQ%20%28found%20on%0D%0Ahttp%3A%2F%2Ffedora.redhat.com%2Fdocs%2Fselinux-faq-fc3%2Fln-legalnotice.html%29%2C%0D%0Afor%20example%3A%0D%0A%0D%0A%20%20selinux-faq-1.3-8%20%282005-01-20-T16%3A20-0800%29%0D%0A%0D%0A%0D%0A%0D%0A%0D%0A%0D%0A%0D%0A%0D%0A&keywords=&dependson=&blocked=118757%20%20&maketemplate=Remember%20values%20as%20bookmarkable%20template&form_name=enter_bug"> > @@ -28,6 +28,10 @@ > Wade > Karsten > > + > + Sellers > + Chad > + > > &LEGALNOTICE; > > @@ -43,8 +47,9 @@ > > This FAQ is specific to &FC; &LOCALVER; > > - If you are looking for the FAQ for &FC; 2, refer to - url="http://fedora.redhat.com/docs/selinux-faq-fc2/" />. > + If you are looking for the FAQ for &FC; 2 or &FC; 3, refer to + url="http://fedora.redhat.com/docs/selinux-faq-fc2/" /> or + url="http://fedora.redhat.com/docs/selinux-faq-fc3/" />, respectively. > > > > @@ -80,13 +85,29 @@ > > > > - Writing SE Linux policy HOWTO — + Writing traditional SE Linux policy HOWTO — url="https://sourceforge.net/docman/display_doc.php?docid=21959&group_id=21266" > /> > > > > > + Reference Policy (the new policy found in &FC; 5) — + url="http://serefpolicy.sourceforge.net/" > + /> > + > + > + > + > + SELinux policy development training courses — + url="http://tresys.com/services/training.shtml" > + /> and + url="https://www.redhat.com/training/security/courses/rhs429.html" > + /> > + > + > + > + > Getting Started with SE Linux HOWTO: the new SE Linux (Debian) — > url="https://sourceforge.net/docman/display_doc.php?docid=20372&group_id=21266" /> > @@ -94,6 +115,13 @@ > > > > + List of SELinux object classes and permissions — > + + url="http://tresys.com/selinux/obj_perms_help.shtml" /> > + > + > + > + > On IRC — irc.freenode.net, #fedora-selinux > > > @@ -110,7 +138,7 @@ > Making changes/additions to the &FED; &SEL; FAQ > > This FAQ is available at - url="http://fedora.redhat.com/docs/selinux-faq-fc3/">http://fedora.redhat.com/docs/selinux-faq-fc3/. > + url="http://fedora.redhat.com/docs/selinux-faq-fc5/">http://fedora.redhat.com/docs/selinux-faq-fc5/. > > > For changes or additions to the &FED; &SEL; FAQ, use this @@ -224,29 +252,49 @@ > delivered in a package, with an associated source package. Current > shipping policy packages are: > > + > + > + selinux-policy-<version>.noarch.rpm > + > + > + > + > + This package is common to all types of policy and contains config > + files/man pages. > + > + > + > + selinux-policy-devel-<version>.noarch.rpm > + > + > + > + > + This is the development environment. This replaces the -sources > + package from the past. This package contains the interface files > + used in reference policy along with a Makefile and a small tool > + used to generate a policy template file. The interface files > + reside in /usr/share/selinux/refpolicy/headers directory. > + > > > - selinux-policy-strict-<version-arch>.rpm > - and > - selinux-policy-strict-sources-<version-arch>.rpm > + selinux-policy-strict-<version>.noarch.rpm > > > > > - selinux-policy-targeted-<version-arch>.rpm > - and > - selinux-policy-targeted-sources-<version-arch>.rpm > + selinux-policy-targeted-<version>.noarch.rpm > + > + > + > + > + selinux-policy-mls-<version>.noarch.rpm > > > > > - Policy source resides in > - /etc/selinux/policyname/src/policy, > - when it is installed, and the binary policy file is in > - /etc/selinux/policyname/policy. > - Policy source is not required for ultra-minimal installations. The > - policy for the types and domains is configured separately from > - security context for the subjects and objects. > + Binary policy files are in /etc/selinux/policyname. The policy for the > + types and domains is configured separately from security context for the > + subjects and objects. > > > > @@ -374,6 +422,47 @@ > > > > + What is the mls policy? Who is it for? > + > + > + > + > + The mls policy is similar to the strict policy, but adds an additional > + field to security contexts for separating levels. These levels can be > + used to separate data in an environment that calls for strict > + hierarchical separation. The most common example of this is a military > + setting where data is classified at a certain level. This policy is > + geared toward these sorts of users, and is probably not useful to > + you unless you fall into this category. > + > + > + > + > + > + > + What is the Reference Policy? > + > + > + > + > + The Reference Policy > + is a new project designed to rewrite the entire SELinux policy in a > + way that is easier to use and understand. To do this, it uses > + the concepts of modularity, abstraction, and well-defined interfaces. > + See + url="http://serefpolicy.sourceforge.net/">it's project page > + for more information on it. > + > + > + Fedora policies at version 1.x are based on the traditional example > + policy. Policies version 2.x (as used in &FC; &LOCALVER;) are based > + on the Reference Policy. > + > + > + > + > + > + > What are file contexts? > > > @@ -423,8 +512,8 @@ > > There is no difference between a domain and a type, although > domain is sometimes used to refer to the type of a process. The > - use of domain in this way stems from traditional TE models, where > - domains and types are separate. > + use of domain in this way stems from Domain and Type Enforcement (DTE) > + models, where domains and types are separate. > > > > @@ -796,7 +885,7 @@ > kernel command line to turn system-call auditing off. > > > - System-call auditing is off by default. When on, it provides > + System-call auditing is on by default. When on, it provides > information about the system-call that was executing when SELinux > generated a denied message. This > may be helpful when debugging policy. > @@ -812,8 +901,8 @@ > > > > - This is not supported at this time. In the future, a utility will > - be provided to tune auditing. > + To do this, run auditctl -e 0. Note that this > + will not affect auditing of SELinux AVC denials. > > > > @@ -1000,9 +1089,9 @@ > You can create your new user with the standard > useradd command. First you must become root; > under the strict policy you will need to change role to > - sysadm_r. This context switch > - has been incorporated into the su command and > - occurs automatically. For the targeted policy, you will not need > + sysadm_r using > + newrole -r sysadm_r > + For the targeted policy, you will not need > to switch roles, staying in > unconfined_t: > > @@ -1024,7 +1113,7 @@ > > > > - > + > > > > @@ -1104,12 +1193,14 @@ > > > > + > > > > +--> > > > > @@ -1246,18 +1337,7 @@ > changes in the updated policy. > > > - If you have installed the policy source packages, e.g. > - selinux-policy-strict, you can execute these > - commands to relabel the file system. > - > - > -cd /etc/selinux/targeted/src/policy > -make > -make relabel > -reboot > - > - > - If you aren't using policy sources, another approach is to use the > + To relabel, use the > fixfiles command or take advantage of the > /.autorelabel mechanism: > > @@ -1288,6 +1368,8 @@ > > > > + > > + > > > + > > > > > - Why do the files > + Why do binary policies (e.g. > /etc/selinux/policyname/policy/policy.<version> > - and > - /etc/selinux/policyname/src/policy/policy.<version> > - have different (sizes, md5sums, dates)? > + distributed with Fedora and those I compile myself have different sizes > + and md5sums? > > > > > When you install a policy package, pre-compiled binary policy > files are put directly into /etc/selinux. > - When a policy source package is installed or updated, binary > - policy files are built in > - /etc/selinux/policyname/src/policy, > - then moved to > - /etc/selinux/policyname/policy/. > The different build environments will make target files that have > - different sizes, md5sums, and dates. > + different sizes, md5sums. > > > > @@ -1409,39 +1490,94 @@ > > > > - Your help is definitely appreciated. You can start by joining the > - &SEL; mailing list, - url="mailto:fedora-selinux-list at redhat.com">fedora-selinux-list at redhat.com; > - you can subscribe and read the archives at - url="http://www.redhat.com/mailman/listinfo/fedora-selinux-list">http://www.redhat.com/mailman/listinfo/fedora-selinux-list. > - The UnOfficial FAQ has some generic policy writing HOWTO > - information ( - url="http://sourceforge.net/docman/display_doc.php?docid=14882&group_id=21266#BSP.1">http://sourceforge.net/docman/display_doc.php?docid=14882&group_id=21266#BSP.1). > - Another new resource is the Writing SE Linux policy HOWTO ( - url="https://sourceforge.net/docman/display_doc.php?docid=21959&group_id=21266">https://sourceforge.net/docman/display_doc.php?docid=21959&group_id=21266). > + Your help is definitely appreciated. > + > + > + > + You can start by joining the > + &FED; &SEL; mailing list, + url="mailto:fedora-selinux-list at redhat.com">fedora-selinux-list at redhat.com; > + you can subscribe and read the archives at + url="http://www.redhat.com/mailman/listinfo/fedora-selinux-list">http://www.redhat.com/mailman/listinfo/fedora-selinux-list. > + > + > + > + > + The UnOfficial FAQ has some generic policy writing HOWTO > + information ( + url="http://sourceforge.net/docman/display_doc.php?docid=14882&group_id=21266#BSP.1">http://sourceforge.net/docman/display_doc.php?docid=14882&group_id=21266#BSP.1). > + > + > + > + > + Another new resource is the Writing SE Linux policy HOWTO ( + url="https://sourceforge.net/docman/display_doc.php?docid=21959&group_id=21266">https://sourceforge.net/docman/display_doc.php?docid=21959&group_id=21266). > + > + > + > + Also, since the &FC; &LOCALVER; policy is based on the , > + you should look at the documentation on its project page. > > > Your best bet is to look at the policy files in > - /etc/selinux/policyname/src/policy/ > - and try experiments. Watch the avc > - denied messages in > - /var/log/messages for clues. > - > - > - A useful tool for the policy writer is > - /usr/bin/audit2allow, which translates > - avc messages from > - /var/log/messages into rules that can be used > - by &SEL;. These rules will likely need to be cleaned up. > - > - > - The command audit2allow can receive input via > - three methods. Default is from standard input > - (STDIN). Using the > - option reads input from /var/log/messages, > - and the option reads input from > - dmesg output. > + /usr/share/doc/selinux-policy->version< > + which shows examples of policy. > > + > + If you want to write a new policy domain, you should install the > + selinux-policy-devel package. This will place reference policy > + interface files into the > + /usr/share/selinux/refpolicy directory. > + > + > + There is also a tool there to help you get started. You can use > + the tool policygentool to generate your own > + te, fc > + and if file. > + This tool takes two parameters: the Name of the policy module > + (mydaemon) and the full path to the executable > + (/usr/sbin/mydaemon). This will create three > + files mydaemon.te, > + mydaemon.fc and > + mydaemon.if. > + After you generate the policy files, > + use the supplied Makefile, > + /usr/share/selinux/refpolicy/Makefile, > + build a policy package (mydaemon.pp). Now > + you can load the policy > + module, using semodule, and relabel the > + executable using > + restorecon. Since you have very limited > + policy for your > + executeable, SELinux will prevent it from doing much. So you need > + to turn on permissive mode and then use the init script to start > + your daemon. Now you can start collect avc messages. You can use > + audit2allow to translate the avc messages to > + allow rules and begin > + updating you mydaemon.te file. You should > + search for interface > + macros in the /etc/selinux/refpolicy/include > + directory and use > + these instead of using the allow rules directly, whenever > + possible. If you want more examples of polcy, you could always > + install the selinux-policy src rpm, which contains all of the > + policy te files for the reference policy. > + > + > +# /usr/share/selinux/refpolicy/policygentool mydaemon /usr/sbin/mydaemon > +# make -f /usr/share/selinux/refpolicy/Makefile > +m4 /usr/share/selinux/refpolicy/include/all_perms.spt /usr/share/selinux/refpolicy/include/loadable_module.spt /usr/share/selinux/refpolicy/include/misc_macros.spt > +... > +/usr/share/selinux/refpolicy/include/obj_perm_sets.spt mydaemon.fc > tmp/mydaemon.mod.fc > +Creating targeted mydaemon.pp policy package > +/usr/bin/semodule_package -o mydaemon.pp -m tmp/mydaemon.mod -f tmp/mydaemon.mod.fc > +rm tmp/mydaemon.mod.fc tmp/mydaemon.mod > +# semodule -i mydaemon.pp > +# restorecon -v /usr/sbin/mydaemon > +restorecon reset /usr/sbin/mydaemon context user_u:object_r:sbin_t->system_u:object_r:mydaemon_exec_t > +# setenforce 1 > +# service mydaemon restart > + > > > > @@ -1552,6 +1688,12 @@ > ext2/ext3, XFS has recently added support for the necessary > labels. > > + > + Note that XFS SELinux support is broken in upstream kernel > + 2.6.14 and 2.6.15, but fixed (worked around) > + in 2.6.16. So, make sure your kernel includes this fix if > + you choose to use XFS. > + > > > > @@ -1636,10 +1778,11 @@ > url="mailto:fedora-selinux-list at redhat.com">fedora-selinux-list at redhat.com) > for discussion. > > + > + > > > > > > > - > > -- > Fedora-docs-commits mailing list > Fedora-docs-commits at redhat.com > https://www.redhat.com/mailman/listinfo/fedora-docs-commits -- Karsten Wade, RHCE * Sr. Tech Writer * http://people.redhat.com/kwade/ gpg fingerprint: 2680 DBFD D968 3141 0115 5F1B D992 0E06 AD0E 0C41 Content Services Fedora Documentation Project http://www.redhat.com/docs http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/DocsProject -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: signature.asc Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 189 bytes Desc: This is a digitally signed message part URL: From Tommy.Reynolds at MegaCoder.com Sun Feb 5 00:17:40 2006 From: Tommy.Reynolds at MegaCoder.com (Tommy Reynolds) Date: Sat, 4 Feb 2006 18:17:40 -0600 Subject: docs-common/bin fdpsh,1.6,1.7 In-Reply-To: <200602041634.k14GYSCR007972@cvs-int.fedora.redhat.com> References: <200602041634.k14GYSCR007972@cvs-int.fedora.redhat.com> Message-ID: <20060204181740.0f426c19.Tommy.Reynolds@MegaCoder.com> Uttered "Paul W. Frields" (pfrields) , spake thus: > Pushd/popd stuff was ugly, it's true; this should be more portable. > -FDPDIR=${FDPBINDIR}/../.. export FDPDIR > +FDPDIR=`cd ${FDPBINDIR}/../.. ; /bin/pwd` export FDPDIR OK, OK, if you insist on avoiding relative paths, I won't quibble about this construct ;-) At least it fits on one line. Cheers From cody.dehaan at gmail.com Sun Feb 5 04:20:30 2006 From: cody.dehaan at gmail.com (Cody DeHaan) Date: Sat, 4 Feb 2006 22:20:30 -0600 Subject: Self-Introduction: Cody DeHaan Message-ID: <5c70f4650602042020p7d8515e3p28241680b4637294@mail.gmail.com> - Cody DeHaan - Wisconsin, USA - Student - As a recent cold-turkey convert after years of meddling with Linux, I would like to aid in the creation of documentation in things that could really help people make that step from looking at Linux/Fedora, to truly using it. I have been using RedHat since version 6, and followed the migration to Fedora Core. I have many ideas for documentation that I could contribute. I would be more than willing to help in the process of editing documents, and I am willing to attempt just about anything. - I have done computer support for quite some time now. I have fairly advanced computer skills, administering a Domain environment, and I have experience in NT/XP/2003, Linux and OS X. I have experience in web design, along with simplifying documentation/instructions to make it easy to read and follow for even a novice user. Overall, I really appreciate the documentation that helped me fully make the switch to Fedora that I have used up until now, and I would like to help give something back in any way possible. Thanks for your time and I look forward to working with all of you! [cdehaan at notebook ~]$ gpg --fingerprint cody.dehaan at gmail.com pub 1024D/CA7E1376 2006-02-05 [expires: 2007-01-02] Key fingerprint = 6E51 4866 FD7C 6E23 03E2 CDC1 896D 934D CA7E 1376 uid Cody DeHaan sub 1024g/F3FA3738 2006-02-05 [expires: 2007-01-02] From stickster at gmail.com Sun Feb 5 04:36:18 2006 From: stickster at gmail.com (Paul W. Frields) Date: Sat, 04 Feb 2006 23:36:18 -0500 Subject: docs-common/bin fdpsh,1.6,1.7 In-Reply-To: <20060204181740.0f426c19.Tommy.Reynolds@MegaCoder.com> References: <200602041634.k14GYSCR007972@cvs-int.fedora.redhat.com> <20060204181740.0f426c19.Tommy.Reynolds@MegaCoder.com> Message-ID: <1139114178.3188.22.camel@localhost.localdomain> On Sat, 2006-02-04 at 18:17 -0600, Tommy Reynolds wrote: > Uttered "Paul W. Frields" (pfrields) , spake thus: > > Pushd/popd stuff was ugly, it's true; this should be more portable. > > -FDPDIR=${FDPBINDIR}/../.. export FDPDIR > > +FDPDIR=`cd ${FDPBINDIR}/../.. ; /bin/pwd` export FDPDIR > > OK, OK, if you insist on avoiding relative paths, I won't quibble > about this construct ;-) At least it fits on one line. Yeah, mostly it was because the paths to files for some of the XSLT stuff were becoming three lines long on their own, full of ../.. stuff, which made it really hard to tell at a glance if things were being sourced from the right place. Yeesh. -- Paul W. Frields, RHCE http://paul.frields.org/ gpg fingerprint: 3DA6 A0AC 6D58 FEC4 0233 5906 ACDB C937 BD11 3717 Fedora Documentation Project: http://fedora.redhat.com/projects/docs/ -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: signature.asc Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 189 bytes Desc: This is a digitally signed message part URL: From kwade at redhat.com Mon Feb 6 04:59:07 2006 From: kwade at redhat.com (Karsten Wade) Date: Sun, 05 Feb 2006 20:59:07 -0800 Subject: Self-Introduction: Cody DeHaan In-Reply-To: <5c70f4650602042020p7d8515e3p28241680b4637294@mail.gmail.com> References: <5c70f4650602042020p7d8515e3p28241680b4637294@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <1139201947.27661.275.camel@erato.phig.org> On Sat, 2006-02-04 at 22:20 -0600, Cody DeHaan wrote: > - Cody DeHaan Welcome, Cody. > - Wisconsin, USA > - Student > - As a recent cold-turkey convert after years of meddling with Linux, > I would like to aid in the creation of documentation in things that > could really help people make that step from looking at Linux/Fedora, > to truly using it. I have been using RedHat since version 6, and > followed the migration to Fedora Core. I have many ideas for > documentation that I could contribute. I would be more than willing to > help in the process of editing documents, and I am willing to attempt > just about anything. Fantastic. Aside from the ideas collected on the Wiki[1], there are projects in the works[2], and full books in CVS[3]. [1] http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/DocsProject/DocIdeas [2] http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Docs/Drafts [3] http://webtest.fedora.redhat.com/docs/ This is the point where we are asking people, do you prefer: 1. To get instructions about what to start writing/editing? 2. To look around and find your own place to get started? - Karsten -- Karsten Wade, RHCE * Sr. Tech Writer * http://people.redhat.com/kwade/ gpg fingerprint: 2680 DBFD D968 3141 0115 5F1B D992 0E06 AD0E 0C41 Content Services Fedora Documentation Project http://www.redhat.com/docs http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/DocsProject -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: signature.asc Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 189 bytes Desc: This is a digitally signed message part URL: From cody.dehaan at gmail.com Mon Feb 6 12:08:39 2006 From: cody.dehaan at gmail.com (Cody DeHaan) Date: Mon, 6 Feb 2006 06:08:39 -0600 Subject: Self-Introduction: Cody DeHaan In-Reply-To: <1139201947.27661.275.camel@erato.phig.org> References: <5c70f4650602042020p7d8515e3p28241680b4637294@mail.gmail.com> <1139201947.27661.275.camel@erato.phig.org> Message-ID: <5c70f4650602060408p4a53dd52k72f4a8a88420b173@mail.gmail.com> Thank you Karsten for the welcome. I am sure that once I become more familiar with the things that are being worked on that I will come up with some ideas on my own, but at this time I would welcome suggestions on anything that needs some work. I look forward to helping the project out. Thank you! Cody On 2/5/06, Karsten Wade wrote: > On Sat, 2006-02-04 at 22:20 -0600, Cody DeHaan wrote: > > - Cody DeHaan > > Welcome, Cody. > > > - Wisconsin, USA > > - Student > > - As a recent cold-turkey convert after years of meddling with Linux, > > I would like to aid in the creation of documentation in things that > > could really help people make that step from looking at Linux/Fedora, > > to truly using it. I have been using RedHat since version 6, and > > followed the migration to Fedora Core. I have many ideas for > > documentation that I could contribute. I would be more than willing to > > help in the process of editing documents, and I am willing to attempt > > just about anything. > > Fantastic. Aside from the ideas collected on the Wiki[1], there are > projects in the works[2], and full books in CVS[3]. > > [1] http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/DocsProject/DocIdeas > [2] http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Docs/Drafts > [3] http://webtest.fedora.redhat.com/docs/ > > This is the point where we are asking people, do you prefer: > > 1. To get instructions about what to start writing/editing? > 2. To look around and find your own place to get started? > > - Karsten > -- > Karsten Wade, RHCE * Sr. Tech Writer * http://people.redhat.com/kwade/ > gpg fingerprint: 2680 DBFD D968 3141 0115 5F1B D992 0E06 AD0E 0C41 > Content Services Fedora Documentation Project > http://www.redhat.com/docs http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/DocsProject > > > -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- > Version: GnuPG v1.4.1 (GNU/Linux) > > iD8DBQBD5teb2ZIOBq0ODEERAkreAJ9TuagibH4nYNmcVwy12P1kw00QOACfSFKq > kkaAC6sJs2ofnTc+L3BhD3Y= > =3iH8 > -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- > > > -- > fedora-docs-list mailing list > fedora-docs-list at redhat.com > To unsubscribe: > https://www.redhat.com/mailman/listinfo/fedora-docs-list > > -- Cody DeHaan Fedora Documentation Project GPG: 6E51 4866 FD7C 6E23 03E2 CDC1 896D 934D CA7E 1376 From stickster at gmail.com Mon Feb 6 13:35:12 2006 From: stickster at gmail.com (Paul W. Frields) Date: Mon, 06 Feb 2006 08:35:12 -0500 Subject: Self-Introduction: Cody DeHaan In-Reply-To: <5c70f4650602060408p4a53dd52k72f4a8a88420b173@mail.gmail.com> References: <5c70f4650602042020p7d8515e3p28241680b4637294@mail.gmail.com> <1139201947.27661.275.camel@erato.phig.org> <5c70f4650602060408p4a53dd52k72f4a8a88420b173@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <1139232912.3665.12.camel@localhost.localdomain> On Mon, 2006-02-06 at 06:08 -0600, Cody DeHaan wrote: > Thank you Karsten for the welcome. I am sure that once I become more > familiar with the things that are being worked on that I will come up > with some ideas on my own, but at this time I would welcome > suggestions on anything that needs some work. > > I look forward to helping the project out. > > Thank you! Hi Cody, Might I suggest you visit: http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Docs/Drafts/DesktopUserGuide If you are comfortable doing some editing, try revising the style of this guide. Your mission, should you choose to accept it, is as follows: 1. Fix the style of the existing text. Eliminate passive voice wherever possible. Avoid colloquialism and conversational tone. Make sentences concise so other volunteers can translate the text easily. In short, follow the style guidelines in the current Documentation Guide -- although these are soon to be rewritten, they are useful as is for now. EXAMPLE (first sentence): This guide has been written for individuals wishing to become oriented with Fedora Core's default desktop environment, to accomplish normal tasks, and to customize the environment according to their preferences. REWRITE: This guide helps you understand Fedora Core's default desktop environment, accomplish normal tasks, and customize the environment according to your preferences. Note how the rewrite uses active voice, reduces the length from 30 words to 21 words (a 30% drop!), and is generally clearer. 2. Add content where noted by the other author(s). I see several "FIXME" areas that need attention, and in general this guide needs more content. What's there is a great start, but brainstorm other material that might reasonably fit into this guide's goals. Where possible, try not to conflict with the goals of the other guides being drafted. Don't be afraid to write directly into the Wiki. If you don't have edit privileges there, let a contributor know through this list or IRC #fedora-docs, and we'll be happy to add you in. 3. Keep the audience in mind. Since this guide is a very gentle doc for rank newbies, you should give clear instructions with little or no jargon. Use clear terms like "From the Main Menu, select Applications, System Tools, File Browser," or "Click the right mouse button on any empty area of the Desktop." Have fun and feel free to ask questions here or in IRC. Here you're virtually guaranteed an answer; many people camp in IRC to log the conversations for later review, but aren't necessarily "present." If there's anything you don't understand, we are here to help. -- Paul W. Frields, RHCE http://paul.frields.org/ gpg fingerprint: 3DA6 A0AC 6D58 FEC4 0233 5906 ACDB C937 BD11 3717 Fedora Documentation Project: http://fedora.redhat.com/projects/docs/ -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: signature.asc Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 189 bytes Desc: This is a digitally signed message part URL: From Tommy.Reynolds at MegaCoder.com Mon Feb 6 15:04:50 2006 From: Tommy.Reynolds at MegaCoder.com (Tommy Reynolds) Date: Mon, 6 Feb 2006 09:04:50 -0600 Subject: press release format, for translation too In-Reply-To: <1138979742.27661.128.camel@erato.phig.org> References: <1138928236.27661.36.camel@erato.phig.org> <20060202223817.3b563bf6.Tommy.Reynolds@MegaCoder.com> <1138979742.27661.128.camel@erato.phig.org> Message-ID: <20060206090450.9d7a8cfa.Tommy.Reynolds@MegaCoder.com> Uttered Karsten Wade , spake thus: > > Got an example of a pretty press release you like? > IMO, it should be like what are delivered to Business Wire. Plain text, > written to follow a non-bylined journalistic style: > http://biz.yahoo.com/bw/060131/20060131005159.html?.v=1 I've put together a 0.0.0.0test1 version of a Press Release technology, based on a tiny DTD and an XSL stylesheet. It's not DocBook, but still tiny enough to be understood or copied at a glance. Find a copy at: http://www.megacoder.com/pub/press/ ftp://ftp.megacoder.com/pub/press/ I've also included a dummy release in both PDF and TXT formats, made using the latest FOP from CVS and my hacked xmlto that uses it. Lacking that, you should be able to run xsltproc manually. I didn't quite know what to do about identifying the source of the press release, or a byline, or the like, so I just left it out. They could be added if you have an example; I'm flying blind here. Cheers From kwade at redhat.com Mon Feb 6 15:22:22 2006 From: kwade at redhat.com (Karsten Wade) Date: Mon, 06 Feb 2006 07:22:22 -0800 Subject: press release format, for translation too In-Reply-To: <20060206090450.9d7a8cfa.Tommy.Reynolds@MegaCoder.com> References: <1138928236.27661.36.camel@erato.phig.org> <20060202223817.3b563bf6.Tommy.Reynolds@MegaCoder.com> <1138979742.27661.128.camel@erato.phig.org> <20060206090450.9d7a8cfa.Tommy.Reynolds@MegaCoder.com> Message-ID: <1139239342.27661.315.camel@erato.phig.org> On Mon, 2006-02-06 at 09:04 -0600, Tommy Reynolds wrote: > Uttered Karsten Wade , spake thus: > > > > Got an example of a pretty press release you like? > > IMO, it should be like what are delivered to Business Wire. Plain text, > > written to follow a non-bylined journalistic style: > > http://biz.yahoo.com/bw/060131/20060131005159.html?.v=1 > > I've put together a 0.0.0.0test1 version of a Press Release > technology, based on a tiny DTD and an XSL stylesheet. It's not > DocBook, but still tiny enough to be understood or copied at a > glance. Looks good. I passed it along to f-marketing-l for comment. Thanks a million, Karsten > > Find a copy at: > > http://www.megacoder.com/pub/press/ > ftp://ftp.megacoder.com/pub/press/ > > I've also included a dummy release in both PDF and TXT formats, made > using the latest FOP from CVS and my hacked xmlto that uses it. > Lacking that, you should be able to run xsltproc manually. > > I didn't quite know what to do about identifying the source of the > press release, or a byline, or the like, so I just left it out. They > could be added if you have an example; I'm flying blind here. > > Cheers > -- Karsten Wade, RHCE * Sr. Tech Writer * http://people.redhat.com/kwade/ gpg fingerprint: 2680 DBFD D968 3141 0115 5F1B D992 0E06 AD0E 0C41 Content Services Fedora Documentation Project http://www.redhat.com/docs http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/DocsProject -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: signature.asc Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 189 bytes Desc: This is a digitally signed message part URL: From hugo at devin.com.br Mon Feb 6 20:36:54 2006 From: hugo at devin.com.br (Hugo Cisneiros) Date: Mon, 06 Feb 2006 18:36:54 -0200 Subject: mirror-tutorial updated on cvs Message-ID: <43E7B366.5060207@devin.com.br> Hau, As in bugzilla #178790, I asked stickster for updating the mirror-tutorial, so I did it today. It is on cvs, so any feedback will be really appreciated, since my english grammar isn't so good :) Changes made: /cvs/docs/mirror-tutorial/en/mirror-tutorial-en.xml -- []'s Eitch http://www.devin.com.br/eitch/ "Talk is cheap. Show me the code." - Linus Torvalds From stickster at gmail.com Tue Feb 7 00:17:11 2006 From: stickster at gmail.com (Paul W. Frields) Date: Mon, 06 Feb 2006 19:17:11 -0500 Subject: mirror-tutorial updated on cvs In-Reply-To: <43E7B366.5060207@devin.com.br> References: <43E7B366.5060207@devin.com.br> Message-ID: <1139271431.13500.1.camel@localhost.localdomain> On Mon, 2006-02-06 at 18:36 -0200, Hugo Cisneiros wrote: > As in bugzilla #178790, I asked stickster for updating the > mirror-tutorial, so I did it today. It is on cvs, so any feedback will > be really appreciated, since my english grammar isn't so good :) No CVS required, I edited the changes for style and a little bit of technical safety, and posted to the Web site. You should find it there now: http://fedora.redhat.com/docs/mirror/ -- Paul W. Frields, RHCE http://paul.frields.org/ gpg fingerprint: 3DA6 A0AC 6D58 FEC4 0233 5906 ACDB C937 BD11 3717 Fedora Documentation Project: http://fedora.redhat.com/projects/docs/ -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: signature.asc Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 189 bytes Desc: This is a digitally signed message part URL: From ghenry at suretecsystems.com Tue Feb 7 16:45:08 2006 From: ghenry at suretecsystems.com (Gavin Henry) Date: Tue, 7 Feb 2006 16:45:08 -0000 (GMT) Subject: relnotes praise from LWN review In-Reply-To: <1139033865.27661.195.camel@erato.phig.org> References: <1139033865.27661.195.camel@erato.phig.org> Message-ID: <57167.192.168.100.90.1139330708.squirrel@webmail.suretecsystems.com> > Some good comments in here about the quality of the release notes in > test2: > > http://lwn.net/SubscriberLink/170154/cb03a738fdba0f0f/ > > If anyone with an account wants to, please add a comment directing > readers to http://fedora.redhat.com/docs/release-notes and mention the > number of languages the relnotes are translated to > _for_the_test_release_. :) Nice ;-) > > - Karsten > -- > Karsten Wade, RHCE * Sr. Tech Writer * http://people.redhat.com/kwade/ > gpg fingerprint: 2680 DBFD D968 3141 0115 5F1B D992 0E06 AD0E 0C41 > Content Services Fedora Documentation Project > http://www.redhat.com/docs http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/DocsProject > -- > fedora-docs-list mailing list > fedora-docs-list at redhat.com > To unsubscribe: > https://www.redhat.com/mailman/listinfo/fedora-docs-list From hugo at devin.com.br Tue Feb 7 17:41:16 2006 From: hugo at devin.com.br (Hugo Cisneiros) Date: Tue, 07 Feb 2006 15:41:16 -0200 Subject: Any work to do? Message-ID: <43E8DBBC.1000203@devin.com.br> Hi guys, I finished the translation of the translation quick start guide, and got some suggestions on the mirror tutorial. Do you have any other things that need my help? Thanks! -- []'s Eitch http://www.devin.com.br/eitch/ "Talk is cheap. Show me the code." - Linus Torvalds From stickster at gmail.com Tue Feb 7 17:49:31 2006 From: stickster at gmail.com (Paul W. Frields) Date: Tue, 07 Feb 2006 12:49:31 -0500 Subject: Any work to do? In-Reply-To: <43E8DBBC.1000203@devin.com.br> References: <43E8DBBC.1000203@devin.com.br> Message-ID: <1139334571.3459.5.camel@localhost.localdomain> On Tue, 2006-02-07 at 15:41 -0200, Hugo Cisneiros wrote: > I finished the translation of the translation quick start guide, and got > some suggestions on the mirror tutorial. Do you have any other things > that need my help? Hi Hugo, please see http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Docs/Drafts and plunge right in. Be mindful of staying within the subject matter guidelines covered by each doc, and get in touch with the existing authors to find out where they could use the most help right now. -- Paul W. Frields, RHCE http://paul.frields.org/ gpg fingerprint: 3DA6 A0AC 6D58 FEC4 0233 5906 ACDB C937 BD11 3717 Fedora Documentation Project: http://fedora.redhat.com/projects/docs/ -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: signature.asc Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 189 bytes Desc: This is a digitally signed message part URL: From kwade at redhat.com Tue Feb 7 20:59:54 2006 From: kwade at redhat.com (Karsten Wade) Date: Tue, 07 Feb 2006 12:59:54 -0800 Subject: a survey about Red Hat documentation Message-ID: <1139345994.16883.7.camel@erato.phig.org> I would appreciate if everyone who uses or has used Red Hat documentation could fill out the survey at the top of this page. http://www.redhat.com/docs/ It takes about fifteen to twenty minutes, depending which documents you have used. Thanks - Karsten -- Karsten Wade, RHCE * Sr. Tech Writer * http://people.redhat.com/kwade/ gpg fingerprint: 2680 DBFD D968 3141 0115 5F1B D992 0E06 AD0E 0C41 Content Services Fedora Documentation Project http://www.redhat.com/docs http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/DocsProject -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: signature.asc Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 189 bytes Desc: This is a digitally signed message part URL: From stickster at gmail.com Tue Feb 7 22:35:17 2006 From: stickster at gmail.com (Paul W. Frields) Date: Tue, 07 Feb 2006 17:35:17 -0500 Subject: Any work to do? In-Reply-To: <1139334571.3459.5.camel@localhost.localdomain> References: <43E8DBBC.1000203@devin.com.br> <1139334571.3459.5.camel@localhost.localdomain> Message-ID: <1139351717.8845.3.camel@localhost.localdomain> On Tue, 2006-02-07 at 12:49 -0500, Paul W. Frields wrote: > On Tue, 2006-02-07 at 15:41 -0200, Hugo Cisneiros wrote: > > I finished the translation of the translation quick start guide, and got > > some suggestions on the mirror tutorial. Do you have any other things > > that need my help? > > Hi Hugo, please see http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Docs/Drafts and plunge > right in. Be mindful of staying within the subject matter guidelines > covered by each doc, and get in touch with the existing authors to find > out where they could use the most help right now. Hugo, I forgot to tell you, if you have a chance, you could also add translations to the section of the Trans QSG en/rpm-info.xml in CVS. Thanks! -- Paul W. Frields, RHCE http://paul.frields.org/ gpg fingerprint: 3DA6 A0AC 6D58 FEC4 0233 5906 ACDB C937 BD11 3717 Fedora Documentation Project: http://fedora.redhat.com/projects/docs/ -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: signature.asc Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 189 bytes Desc: This is a digitally signed message part URL: From stuart at elsn.org Wed Feb 8 01:49:53 2006 From: stuart at elsn.org (Stuart Ellis) Date: Wed, 08 Feb 2006 01:49:53 +0000 Subject: Minutes of FDSCo Meeting 7 February 2006 Message-ID: <1139363393.2822.94.camel@localhost.localdomain> Attending Members: ------------------ Karsten Wade (quaid) Tommy Reynolds (megacoder) Paul Frields (stickster) Gavin Henry (G2) Stuart Ellis (elliss) Also Participating: ------------------- Bob Jensen (MicroBob) Schedule of Tasks: ------------------ http://www.fedoraproject.org/wiki/DocsProject/FedoraDocsSchedule Highlights: ----------- * Tommy: The infrastructure to handle the press release format is complete. This enables the Project to convert material into the standard text format used by commercial news services. The tools are now available from the press-release module in the Docs Project CVS. * Karsten: The issue of legal licensing for the Fedora Project Wiki is being progressed. The content on the Wiki is not currently under a specific license, which may impede distribution and reuse. * All: General discussion of the recent user survey, and the need to grow the project to provide more documentation. The number of self-introductions sent to the list has noticeably increased for the past few weeks, which is a positive sign for the future. It was noted that new contributors seem to prefer to receive suggestions on areas of work. Previously, it was assumed that contributors would determine the work that matched their interests without guidance. Full IRC Log: ------------- https://www.redhat.com/archives/fedora-dsco-list/2006-January/msg00007.html -- Stuart Ellis stuart at elsn.org Fedora Documentation Project: http://fedora.redhat.com/projects/docs/ GPG key ID: 7098ABEA GPG key fingerprint: 68B0 E291 FB19 C845 E60E 9569 292E E365 7098 ABEA -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: signature.asc Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 189 bytes Desc: This is a digitally signed message part URL: From bugzilla at redhat.com Wed Feb 8 07:36:44 2006 From: bugzilla at redhat.com (bugzilla at redhat.com) Date: Wed, 8 Feb 2006 02:36:44 -0500 Subject: [Bug 129722] (tracker) Docs ready for going to fedora.redhat.com In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <200602080736.k187aifG030463@www.beta.redhat.com> Please do not reply directly to this email. All additional comments should be made in the comments box of this bug report. Summary: (tracker) Docs ready for going to fedora.redhat.com Alias: fedora-docs-ready https://bugzilla.redhat.com/bugzilla/show_bug.cgi?id=129722 kwade at redhat.com changed: What |Removed |Added ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- CC| |fedora-docs-list at redhat.com ------- Additional Comments From kwade at redhat.com 2006-02-08 02:36 EST ------- Borrowing this bug as a test, to see if we can add fedora-docs-list at redhat.com and have the email get through to the list. -- Configure bugmail: https://bugzilla.redhat.com/bugzilla/userprefs.cgi?tab=email ------- You are receiving this mail because: ------- You are on the CC list for the bug, or are watching someone who is. From kwade at redhat.com Wed Feb 8 16:02:10 2006 From: kwade at redhat.com (Karsten Wade) Date: Wed, 08 Feb 2006 08:02:10 -0800 Subject: press-release - New directory In-Reply-To: <200602071503.k17F3LMT008552@cvs-int.fedora.redhat.com> References: <200602071503.k17F3LMT008552@cvs-int.fedora.redhat.com> Message-ID: <1139414530.16883.86.camel@erato.phig.org> On Tue, 2006-02-07 at 10:03 -0500, Tommy Reynolds wrote: > Author: jtr > > Update of /cvs/docs/press-release > In directory cvs-int.fedora.redhat.com:/tmp/cvs-serv8537/press-release > > Log Message: > Directory /cvs/docs/press-release added to the repository Is this a good place to host the press releases themselves? Seems OK. Making sure that Greg is aware that we now have a template and a CVS location for press releases. For an individual release, how about this format: YYYYMMDD-topic_of_release.xml - Karsten -- Karsten Wade, RHCE * Sr. Tech Writer * http://people.redhat.com/kwade/ gpg fingerprint: 2680 DBFD D968 3141 0115 5F1B D992 0E06 AD0E 0C41 Content Services Fedora Documentation Project http://www.redhat.com/docs http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/DocsProject -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: signature.asc Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 189 bytes Desc: This is a digitally signed message part URL: From Tommy.Reynolds at MegaCoder.com Wed Feb 8 16:24:28 2006 From: Tommy.Reynolds at MegaCoder.com (Tommy Reynolds) Date: Wed, 8 Feb 2006 10:24:28 -0600 Subject: press-release - New directory In-Reply-To: <1139414530.16883.86.camel@erato.phig.org> References: <200602071503.k17F3LMT008552@cvs-int.fedora.redhat.com> <1139414530.16883.86.camel@erato.phig.org> Message-ID: <20060208102428.b5a5bbf7.Tommy.Reynolds@MegaCoder.com> Uttered Karsten Wade , spake thus: > > Directory /cvs/docs/press-release added to the repository > Is this a good place to host the press releases themselves? > Seems OK. Only if you want to force everyone (how many?) to have local copies of all press releases in perpetuity. A "press-release-public" may be a better choice, depending on who is actually going to use this. I really have no strong feelings about it, though. > For an individual release, how about this format: > YYYYMMDD-topic_of_release.xml WFM Cheers From kwade at redhat.com Wed Feb 8 22:56:57 2006 From: kwade at redhat.com (Karsten Wade) Date: Wed, 08 Feb 2006 14:56:57 -0800 Subject: press-release - New directory In-Reply-To: <20060208102428.b5a5bbf7.Tommy.Reynolds@MegaCoder.com> References: <200602071503.k17F3LMT008552@cvs-int.fedora.redhat.com> <1139414530.16883.86.camel@erato.phig.org> <20060208102428.b5a5bbf7.Tommy.Reynolds@MegaCoder.com> Message-ID: <1139439417.16883.116.camel@erato.phig.org> On Wed, 2006-02-08 at 10:24 -0600, Tommy Reynolds wrote: > Uttered Karsten Wade , spake thus: > > > > Directory /cvs/docs/press-release added to the repository > > Is this a good place to host the press releases themselves? > > Seems OK. > > Only if you want to force everyone (how many?) to have local copies > of all press releases in perpetuity. > > A "press-release-public" may be a better choice, depending on who is > actually going to use this. I really have no strong feelings about > it, though. +1 That's why I asked, good reminder to keep the tools and content separate. - Karsten -- Karsten Wade, RHCE * Sr. Tech Writer * http://people.redhat.com/kwade/ gpg fingerprint: 2680 DBFD D968 3141 0115 5F1B D992 0E06 AD0E 0C41 Content Services Fedora Documentation Project http://www.redhat.com/docs http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/DocsProject -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: signature.asc Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 189 bytes Desc: This is a digitally signed message part URL: From Tommy.Reynolds at MegaCoder.com Thu Feb 9 00:46:43 2006 From: Tommy.Reynolds at MegaCoder.com (Tommy Reynolds) Date: Wed, 8 Feb 2006 18:46:43 -0600 Subject: docs-common Makefile.common,1.47,1.48 In-Reply-To: <200602090027.k190RlZw000404@cvs-int.fedora.redhat.com> References: <200602090027.k190RlZw000404@cvs-int.fedora.redhat.com> Message-ID: <20060208184643.daea8531.Tommy.Reynolds@MegaCoder.com> Uttered "Paul W. Frields" (pfrields) , spake thus: > Robust! Simple! Elegant! Hopefully not stupid! Now with 50% > more targets. (I added these to .PHONY which I think is the > right thing to do. Everything still works at least... Assuredly. We need to mark these virtual targets as .PHONY to keep from breaking everything if someome tried to freshen the timestamps with a "make -t srpm". Without a ".PHONY: srpm", make(1) would then simply "touch srpm", creating an empty file named "srpm", which we do not want. Cheers From Tommy.Reynolds at MegaCoder.com Fri Feb 10 18:48:28 2006 From: Tommy.Reynolds at MegaCoder.com (Tommy Reynolds) Date: Fri, 10 Feb 2006 12:48:28 -0600 Subject: [ANN] Translation support added to "press-release" tool Message-ID: <20060210124828.7e69e49c.Tommy.Reynolds@MegaCoder.com> Hello, All! Thanks to a hint from Alan Cox and others, I have seen the error of my ways, at least regarding .pot files, .po files, and translation in general. I've reworked the "press-release" module in hopes that it now parallels the accepted practice for translating Fedora documents. How is works is like this: 1) An XML document is prepared in the "${LANG}" locale, for example "en". There is a "foo-en.xml" file that exists. 2) A Norwegian translator wants to make a copy. To do this, the locale string "no" is added to the "${OTHERS}" definition in the press-release "Makefile": LANG=en OTHERS=no 3) Watch closely here, I'm not leaving *any* steps out: $ make 4) This will generate the .pot translation template file, the raw "no.po" file holding the translations. generate the "foo-no.xml" file using the translated strings, and render the new "foo-no.pdf" document. Now that the document generation process is complete, the translator can begin adding translated strings to the "no.po" file and repeating Step #3 until happiness ensues. Meanwhile, if the base document "foo-en.xml" gets modified, the translator can just do: $ cvs update $ make no.po and have any new changed merged into the existing "no.po" file. There are some convenience targets produced by the make-fu that might not be obvious: $ make po-no <== Produces a new "foo.pot" file and merges into "po.no" if needed. $ make xml-no <== Merges "foo-en.xml" and "no.xml" into "foo-no.xml". $ make pdf-no <== Renders press release in Norwegian PDF $ make txt-no <== Renders press release in Norwegian text Notice that all "foo-XXX.xml" files except for "foo-${LANG}.xml" are generated files and are thus temporary. Translators NEVER edit an XML file directly, only .po files. Let me know if this is usable. Cheers From Tommy.Reynolds at MegaCoder.com Fri Feb 10 22:25:50 2006 From: Tommy.Reynolds at MegaCoder.com (Tommy Reynolds) Date: Fri, 10 Feb 2006 16:25:50 -0600 Subject: docs - Imported sources In-Reply-To: <200602102213.k1AMDNFa021143@cvs-int.fedora.redhat.com> References: <200602102213.k1AMDNFa021143@cvs-int.fedora.redhat.com> Message-ID: <20060210162550.ec6f1c8d.Tommy.Reynolds@MegaCoder.com> Uttered "Francesco Tombolini" (tombo) , spake thus: > N docs/CVSROOT/config,v > N docs/CVSROOT/history > N docs/CVSROOT/val-tags > No conflicts created by this import I do not understand the purpose of this import. One could always just check out CVSROOT directly. Why the wrapper? Cheers From tombo at adamantio.net Sat Feb 11 04:32:02 2006 From: tombo at adamantio.net (Francesco Tombolini) Date: Fri, 10 Feb 2006 23:32:02 -0500 Subject: cvs import... Message-ID: <200602102332.07232.tombo@adamantio.net> During the configuration of cervisia, I do an import... please, can someone help me to revert the previous condition? Sorry -- Francesco Tombolini -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 189 bytes Desc: not available URL: From stuart at elsn.org Sat Feb 11 11:25:00 2006 From: stuart at elsn.org (Stuart Ellis) Date: Sat, 11 Feb 2006 11:25:00 +0000 Subject: Installation Guide Frozen for Translation Message-ID: <1139657100.2828.4.camel@localhost.localdomain> To confirm that this is frozen. Latest version is on-line here: http://webtest.fedora.redhat.com/docs/fedora-install-guide/en/ CVS module: install-guide. -- Stuart Ellis stuart at elsn.org Fedora Documentation Project: http://fedora.redhat.com/projects/docs/ GPG key ID: 7098ABEA GPG key fingerprint: 68B0 E291 FB19 C845 E60E 9569 292E E365 7098 ABEA -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: signature.asc Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 189 bytes Desc: This is a digitally signed message part URL: From stickster at gmail.com Sat Feb 11 13:56:23 2006 From: stickster at gmail.com (Paul W. Frields) Date: Sat, 11 Feb 2006 08:56:23 -0500 Subject: Installation Guide Frozen for Translation In-Reply-To: <1139657100.2828.4.camel@localhost.localdomain> References: <1139657100.2828.4.camel@localhost.localdomain> Message-ID: <1139666183.3097.2.camel@localhost.localdomain> On Sat, 2006-02-11 at 11:25 +0000, Stuart Ellis wrote: > To confirm that this is frozen. > > Latest version is on-line here: > > http://webtest.fedora.redhat.com/docs/fedora-install-guide/en/ > > CVS module: install-guide. Since this is frozen for test3, and titled with the customary "BETA" label, there's no reason I can't publish this to f.r.c, right? It would give users a chance to look and bug us. As finished translations are provided I can post those too. -- Paul W. Frields, RHCE http://paul.frields.org/ gpg fingerprint: 3DA6 A0AC 6D58 FEC4 0233 5906 ACDB C937 BD11 3717 Fedora Documentation Project: http://fedora.redhat.com/projects/docs/ -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: signature.asc Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 189 bytes Desc: This is a digitally signed message part URL: From kwade at redhat.com Sat Feb 11 15:05:52 2006 From: kwade at redhat.com (Karsten Wade) Date: Sat, 11 Feb 2006 07:05:52 -0800 Subject: fdp-info-*.xml a generated file? Message-ID: <1139670352.11779.102.camel@erato.phig.org> If fdp-info-*.xml is a generated file (right?) should we -not- check a version into CVS? When the rpm-info.xml is present, the fdp-info file is created from that, right? - Karsten -- Karsten Wade, RHCE * Sr. Tech Writer * http://people.redhat.com/kwade/ gpg fingerprint: 2680 DBFD D968 3141 0115 5F1B D992 0E06 AD0E 0C41 Content Services Fedora Documentation Project http://www.redhat.com/docs http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/DocsProject -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: signature.asc Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 189 bytes Desc: This is a digitally signed message part URL: From kwade at redhat.com Sat Feb 11 15:13:08 2006 From: kwade at redhat.com (Karsten Wade) Date: Sat, 11 Feb 2006 07:13:08 -0800 Subject: fdp-info-*.xml a generated file? In-Reply-To: <1139670352.11779.102.camel@erato.phig.org> References: <1139670352.11779.102.camel@erato.phig.org> Message-ID: <1139670788.11779.106.camel@erato.phig.org> On Sat, 2006-02-11 at 07:05 -0800, Karsten Wade wrote: > If fdp-info-*.xml is a generated file (right?) should we -not- check a > version into CVS? When the rpm-info.xml is present, the fdp-info file > is created from that, right? BTW, I ask because make(1) is complaining about the rpm-info-en.xml file missing: make html make: *** No rule to make target `/home/kwade/Documents/projects/fedora/cvs-docs/release-notes/en/rpm- info-en.xml', needed by `en/fdp-info-en.xml'. Stop. The file is not in the repo: cvs up -d en/rpm-info-en.xml cvs update: nothing known about en/rpm-info-en.xml I copied over the Italian version (my best chance of translating back, as it's closest to Spanish). I figure that this was just a slip in the process of moving files around, just want to make sure I'm not missing something. - Karsten -- Karsten Wade, RHCE * Sr. Tech Writer * http://people.redhat.com/kwade/ gpg fingerprint: 2680 DBFD D968 3141 0115 5F1B D992 0E06 AD0E 0C41 Content Services Fedora Documentation Project http://www.redhat.com/docs http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/DocsProject -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: signature.asc Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 189 bytes Desc: This is a digitally signed message part URL: From Tommy.Reynolds at MegaCoder.com Sat Feb 11 16:19:13 2006 From: Tommy.Reynolds at MegaCoder.com (Tommy Reynolds) Date: Sat, 11 Feb 2006 10:19:13 -0600 Subject: fdp-info-*.xml a generated file? In-Reply-To: <1139670352.11779.102.camel@erato.phig.org> References: <1139670352.11779.102.camel@erato.phig.org> Message-ID: <20060211101913.ca504c4e.Tommy.Reynolds@MegaCoder.com> Uttered Karsten Wade , spake thus: > If fdp-info-*.xml is a generated file (right?) should we -not- check a > version into CVS? When the rpm-info.xml is present, the fdp-info file > is created from that, right? That is correct. The "fdp-info-*.xml" files are generated and should not be checked into CVS. If make(1) complains about not finding an "fdp-info-*.xml" file, there is something wrong with "Makefile.common". AIUI, stickster was helping with this. If you get this answer and it's still broken, let me know and I'll investigate. Cheers From stickster at gmail.com Sat Feb 11 16:47:19 2006 From: stickster at gmail.com (Paul W. Frields) Date: Sat, 11 Feb 2006 11:47:19 -0500 Subject: fdp-info-*.xml a generated file? In-Reply-To: <20060211101913.ca504c4e.Tommy.Reynolds@MegaCoder.com> References: <1139670352.11779.102.camel@erato.phig.org> <20060211101913.ca504c4e.Tommy.Reynolds@MegaCoder.com> Message-ID: <1139676439.3097.3.camel@localhost.localdomain> On Sat, 2006-02-11 at 10:19 -0600, Tommy Reynolds wrote: > Uttered Karsten Wade , spake thus: > > > If fdp-info-*.xml is a generated file (right?) should we -not- check a > > version into CVS? When the rpm-info.xml is present, the fdp-info file > > is created from that, right? > > That is correct. The "fdp-info-*.xml" files are generated and should > not be checked into CVS. > > If make(1) complains about not finding an "fdp-info-*.xml" file, > there is something wrong with "Makefile.common". > > AIUI, stickster was helping with this. If you get this answer and > it's still broken, let me know and I'll investigate. Yup, on the case. (For whatever that's worth.) I noticed this at checkout this morning and will remove the offending files if Karsten hasn't done so already. -- Paul W. Frields, RHCE http://paul.frields.org/ gpg fingerprint: 3DA6 A0AC 6D58 FEC4 0233 5906 ACDB C937 BD11 3717 Fedora Documentation Project: http://fedora.redhat.com/projects/docs/ -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: signature.asc Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 189 bytes Desc: This is a digitally signed message part URL: From Tommy.Reynolds at MegaCoder.com Sat Feb 11 20:26:42 2006 From: Tommy.Reynolds at MegaCoder.com (Tommy Reynolds) Date: Sat, 11 Feb 2006 14:26:42 -0600 Subject: release-notes/en RELEASE-NOTES-en.xml,1.2,1.3 In-Reply-To: <200602111933.k1BJXeST001755@cvs-int.fedora.redhat.com> References: <200602111933.k1BJXeST001755@cvs-int.fedora.redhat.com> Message-ID: <20060211142642.64bfdeae.Tommy.Reynolds@MegaCoder.com> Uttered "Paul W. Frields" (pfrields) , spake thus: > + xmlns:xi="http://www.w3.org/2001/XInclude" /> FYI, in the interests of punctuation conservation, the $(dirname including-doc) is assumed, so the "./OverView..." path is redundant and should be more succinctly written as href="OverView-en.xml", at least to pacify the grammar police. Cheers From stickster at gmail.com Sat Feb 11 20:30:37 2006 From: stickster at gmail.com (Paul W. Frields) Date: Sat, 11 Feb 2006 15:30:37 -0500 Subject: release-notes/en RELEASE-NOTES-en.xml,1.2,1.3 In-Reply-To: <20060211142642.64bfdeae.Tommy.Reynolds@MegaCoder.com> References: <200602111933.k1BJXeST001755@cvs-int.fedora.redhat.com> <20060211142642.64bfdeae.Tommy.Reynolds@MegaCoder.com> Message-ID: <1139689837.3097.13.camel@localhost.localdomain> On Sat, 2006-02-11 at 14:26 -0600, Tommy Reynolds wrote: > Uttered "Paul W. Frields" (pfrields) , spake thus: > > > + > xmlns:xi="http://www.w3.org/2001/XInclude" /> > > FYI, in the interests of punctuation conservation, the $(dirname > including-doc) is assumed, so the "./OverView..." path is redundant > and should be more succinctly written as href="OverView-en.xml", at > least to pacify the grammar police. Don't look at me, it was like that when I got here! :-D Seriously though, thanks for the pointer, I'll revise accordingly at next commit. -- Paul W. Frields, RHCE http://paul.frields.org/ gpg fingerprint: 3DA6 A0AC 6D58 FEC4 0233 5906 ACDB C937 BD11 3717 Fedora Documentation Project: http://fedora.redhat.com/projects/docs/ -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: signature.asc Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 189 bytes Desc: This is a digitally signed message part URL: From kwade at redhat.com Sun Feb 12 15:45:30 2006 From: kwade at redhat.com (Karsten Wade) Date: Sun, 12 Feb 2006 07:45:30 -0800 Subject: why XInclude for release-notes Message-ID: <1139759131.11779.160.camel@erato.phig.org> I am still curious... why did we move to XInclude to start with? Here's my small stack of reasons: i) XIncludes are the XML and modern DB way of doing things, so I wanted to get them working correctly. So, the technical desire to not use older, restrictive methods. This has the advantage of letting us continue to break out XML into modular files, and have each one a valid XML document. This -should- make validation, editing, etc. easier for everyone. ii) Every round of making the relnotes, I was outputting XML from MM and manually carrying changes over. As the beats and notes grow, this is crazy. So, although the XML is rather plain vanilla, if the MM styling is consistent, at least the formatting is the same I figured, it would be easier to take the XML from out of MM and stitch it together with XIncludes than it would be to use entities for the same. That said, another post-processing option is to snip the
junk from the files and make the
s then pull them in with good ol' entities. I suppose that if we can't get the xi to work, we can revert back to entities for this release. Also, I'm wondering if this header is properly formed: Shouldn't there be an 'XML' between 'DocBook' and 'V4.4'? I took out all the entity calls and added to fdp-info-en.xml a DOCTYPE declaration and a call to the entities file. I'm continuing to have the problem of nothing being able to find the DTD from http://www.docbook.org/xml/4.4/docbookx.dtd . That seems to be just a problem with me? I'm going to check all these changes in for now, so that we can work together to hack through. My error output seems related to the $PWD of the XIncluded file. I'm working my way through until I probably end up with just having all the legal notice stuff within the language-specific areas of the module as a hack-around. - Karsten -- Karsten Wade, RHCE * Sr. Tech Writer * http://people.redhat.com/kwade/ gpg fingerprint: 2680 DBFD D968 3141 0115 5F1B D992 0E06 AD0E 0C41 Content Services Fedora Documentation Project http://www.redhat.com/docs http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/DocsProject -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: signature.asc Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 189 bytes Desc: This is a digitally signed message part URL: From stickster at gmail.com Sun Feb 12 16:15:14 2006 From: stickster at gmail.com (Paul W. Frields) Date: Sun, 12 Feb 2006 11:15:14 -0500 Subject: why XInclude for release-notes In-Reply-To: <1139759131.11779.160.camel@erato.phig.org> References: <1139759131.11779.160.camel@erato.phig.org> Message-ID: <1139760914.22501.4.camel@localhost.localdomain> On Sun, 2006-02-12 at 07:45 -0800, Karsten Wade wrote: > I am still curious... why did we move to XInclude to start > with? > > Here's my small stack of reasons: [...snip...] Thanks, good for future reference too. > Also, I'm wondering if this header is properly formed: > > "http://www.docbook.org/xml/4.4/docbookx.dtd"> > > Shouldn't there be an 'XML' between 'DocBook' and 'V4.4'? Just so. I went ahead and committed this just now since I didn't see any such changes upon updating. > I'm going to check all these changes in for now, so that we can work > together to hack through. My error output seems related to the $PWD of > the XIncluded file. I'm working my way through until I probably end up > with just having all the legal notice stuff within the language-specific > areas of the module as a hack-around. I had a thought about this... Why not include the actual elements in extended entities, and then XInclude either a
or element that wraps the extended entity? That way we can put a standard DocBook XML prolog in all docs and go with XInclude in the generated fdp-info-*.xml document. I haven't tried this but I'll meet you on IRC today to discuss. -- Paul W. Frields, RHCE http://paul.frields.org/ gpg fingerprint: 3DA6 A0AC 6D58 FEC4 0233 5906 ACDB C937 BD11 3717 Fedora Documentation Project: http://fedora.redhat.com/projects/docs/ -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: signature.asc Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 189 bytes Desc: This is a digitally signed message part URL: From stickster at gmail.com Sun Feb 12 17:49:56 2006 From: stickster at gmail.com (Paul W. Frields) Date: Sun, 12 Feb 2006 12:49:56 -0500 Subject: [ANN] docs-common breakage Message-ID: <1139766597.22501.10.camel@localhost.localdomain> Karsten, Tommy and I are all working on fixes to our docs-common to accommodate use of (1) XInclude, and (2) translation processes. There may be significant breakage for the next several days. If you value your ability to build the docs, don't update your docs-common module. (Or alternately, you can always "cvs up -D 2006-02-11 docs-common/" to back out to the previous version, after seeing how badly we've borked it.) When we have finished, there may be additional guidelines for existing and new docs, although we expect the changes for individual modules to be truly minimal. Or at least that's what we're shooting for. -- Paul W. Frields, RHCE http://paul.frields.org/ gpg fingerprint: 3DA6 A0AC 6D58 FEC4 0233 5906 ACDB C937 BD11 3717 Fedora Documentation Project: http://fedora.redhat.com/projects/docs/ -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: signature.asc Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 189 bytes Desc: This is a digitally signed message part URL: From stickster at gmail.com Sun Feb 12 23:00:09 2006 From: stickster at gmail.com (Paul W. Frields) Date: Sun, 12 Feb 2006 18:00:09 -0500 Subject: [ANN] New XInclude standard Message-ID: <1139785209.22501.42.camel@localhost.localdomain> Hi gang, We have moved to using XIncludes for some specific functions in FDP docs-common stuff. This was necessitated by a number of issues Karsten alluded to in a previous email to the list[1]. The pain this should cause is going to be very minimal, and after you make a few minor changes to your documents, builds will work again now. Here are the changes you need to make, only two very small steps: 1. Update to using the DocBook V4.4 DTD. To do this, change your DOCTYPE declaration at the top of your document to read like this one: %FEDORA-ENTITIES-EN; ]> 2. Remove the FDP-INFO entity declaration, and replace its occurrence in the text (&FDP-INFO;) with the following XML element. Make sure you self-close the tag, and that you use the proper language for the HREF attribute. 3. Run "make distclean" to clean out cruft. * * * THAT'S IT! * * * You can see an example of steps 1 and 2 in a recent commit of mine[2]. Many people have taken to putting funky editor-specific code either at the top or bottom of a "child" document, to allow proper context editing (colors, indentation, etc.). If you use an XInclude instead of an external entity declaration, you should put a DOCTYPE declaration in every included file -- *exactly* the same as the one shown above in Step 1 -- and your content-aware editor will now work automagically. (Note that if you do this, you need to declare the root element of your "child" file, such as "section".) As always, if you have any questions or comments, reply here please. Thanks all! = = = [1] http://www.redhat.com/archives/fedora-docs-list/2006-February/msg00082.html [2] http://www.redhat.com/archives/fedora-docs-commits/2006-February/msg00255.html -- Paul W. Frields, RHCE http://paul.frields.org/ gpg fingerprint: 3DA6 A0AC 6D58 FEC4 0233 5906 ACDB C937 BD11 3717 Fedora Documentation Project: http://fedora.redhat.com/projects/docs/ -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: signature.asc Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 189 bytes Desc: This is a digitally signed message part URL: From bbbush.yuan at gmail.com Mon Feb 13 03:48:45 2006 From: bbbush.yuan at gmail.com (Yuan Yijun) Date: Mon, 13 Feb 2006 11:48:45 +0800 Subject: release-notes/en Java-en.xml,1.3,1.4 In-Reply-To: <200602130344.k1D3i5D9010045@cvs-int.fedora.redhat.com> References: <200602130344.k1D3i5D9010045@cvs-int.fedora.redhat.com> Message-ID: <76e72f800602121948s5a63390by@mail.gmail.com> 2006/2/13, pfrields Paul W. Frields : > Author: pfrields > > Update of /cvs/docs/release-notes/en > In directory cvs-int.fedora.redhat.com:/tmp/cvs-serv10027/en > > Modified Files: > Java-en.xml > Log Message: > More quick and dirty editing > > So wiki is not the only source and translation cannot freeze forever? There would be hundreds more of fuzzy entries in po now. -- bbbush ^_^ From acrouch2 at une.edu.au Mon Feb 13 10:03:36 2006 From: acrouch2 at une.edu.au (Tony Crouch) Date: Mon, 13 Feb 2006 21:03:36 +1100 Subject: Self-Introduction: Tony Crouch Message-ID: <1139825017.5740.10.camel@localhost.localdomain> Hi All, Am just wanting to introduce myself to this list. I have been a user of Fedora for a number of years and am keen to get more involved. I am hoping that through this 'side' of Fedora development I may be able to lend a hand where possible. Regardless of the task meniality. Now, to the requested information: NAME: Tony Crouch CITY: Moree, New South Wales, Australia COMPANY: (None) -- Currently Full-Time Mathematics Student. GOALS FOR FEDORA PROJECT: I will be the first to admit that I am still much of a fedora novice. I am now wanting to get serious in expanding and developing my current knowledge, and I feel the best way to achieve this is to get directly involved with the project itself. As mentioned earlier, I am more than happy to take on any tasks assigned to me, regardless of their meaniality. At this stage, I would probably feel more comfortable dealing with more the literacy / grammar side of the documentation. However, I am more than happy to 'spread my wings' in any direction with regards to the documentation project. I have not worked for any projects or writing teams previously. My computer skills are intermediate. My fingerprint details are as follows: > [tony at localhost ~]$ gpg --fingerprint 1E28F1A3 > pub 1024D/1E28F1A3 2006-02-13 [expires: 2007-02-13] > Key fingerprint = 1D37 07EF 3562 E2C0 909C 8D6C D7F1 8A74 1E28 F1A3 > uid Tony Crouch > sub 2048g/A0248A4B 2006-02-13 [expires: 2007-02-13] Cheers, Tony Crouch From kwade at redhat.com Mon Feb 13 15:09:16 2006 From: kwade at redhat.com (Karsten Wade) Date: Mon, 13 Feb 2006 07:09:16 -0800 Subject: FC5 test3 release notes tagged Message-ID: <1139843356.11779.277.camel@erato.phig.org> I have tagged the release-notes/ and docs-common/ modules with 'release- notes-FC-5-test3'. We can retag anytime today, if heroic translations come in, or other reasons. We have a standard freeze for the ISO of Midnight UTC today. Again, translations are *not* expected. Sorry about the changes in the relnotes making it so late. These changes are very necessary for us in supporting more translations for FC5. - Karsten -- Karsten Wade, RHCE * Sr. Tech Writer * http://people.redhat.com/kwade/ gpg fingerprint: 2680 DBFD D968 3141 0115 5F1B D992 0E06 AD0E 0C41 Content Services Fedora Documentation Project http://www.redhat.com/docs http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/DocsProject -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: signature.asc Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 189 bytes Desc: This is a digitally signed message part URL: From kwade at redhat.com Mon Feb 13 15:16:20 2006 From: kwade at redhat.com (Karsten Wade) Date: Mon, 13 Feb 2006 07:16:20 -0800 Subject: release-notes/en Java-en.xml,1.3,1.4 In-Reply-To: <76e72f800602121948s5a63390by@mail.gmail.com> References: <200602130344.k1D3i5D9010045@cvs-int.fedora.redhat.com> <76e72f800602121948s5a63390by@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <1139843780.11779.285.camel@erato.phig.org> On Mon, 2006-02-13 at 11:48 +0800, Yuan Yijun wrote: > 2006/2/13, pfrields Paul W. Frields : > > Author: pfrields > > > > Update of /cvs/docs/release-notes/en > > In directory cvs-int.fedora.redhat.com:/tmp/cvs-serv10027/en > > > > Modified Files: > > Java-en.xml > > Log Message: > > More quick and dirty editing > > > > > > So wiki is not the only source Wiki is the source of the content. It gives us XML. We have to fix that XML, then it builds. Paul did some extra edits along the way. Those edits are going to disappear when we get XML from the Wiki again. > and translation cannot freeze forever? We never has a translation freeze for the FC5 test3 release notes. Remember that we post the latest release notes on the web, and there is a link to this latest relnotes at the top of the relnotes in the ISO. http://fedora.redhat.com/docs/release-notes/ As soon as there are complete translations of the languages in CVS, we will post them to that Website. This is why it is not as important to get translations into the ISO during test releases. It is *very* important to get the translations into the ISO for the final release. This new work on the toolchain and the release-notes module is to support better translation for the FC5 final release. To do these changes, we had to sacrifice the short-term goal of translations in the test3. I believe this is OK, because now we are supporting the long-term goal of making release-notes available to translate from the standard interface at: http://i18n.redhat.com/cgi-bin/i18n-status > There would be hundreds more of fuzzy entries in po now. We tried hard to make sure that the content (everything that is *not* an XML tag) is the same as before, with new changes for the test3 release. I honestly don't know how this affects the .po file, but we were trying to make the fewest fuzzy entries. I apologize the big inconvenience this causes. I believe the process for the FC5 final relnotes translation is going to be much better. - Karsten -- Karsten Wade, RHCE * Sr. Tech Writer * http://people.redhat.com/kwade/ gpg fingerprint: 2680 DBFD D968 3141 0115 5F1B D992 0E06 AD0E 0C41 Content Services Fedora Documentation Project http://www.redhat.com/docs http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/DocsProject -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: signature.asc Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 189 bytes Desc: This is a digitally signed message part URL: From Tommy.Reynolds at MegaCoder.com Mon Feb 13 17:55:45 2006 From: Tommy.Reynolds at MegaCoder.com (Tommy Reynolds) Date: Mon, 13 Feb 2006 11:55:45 -0600 Subject: [RFC] Existing translations and .PO files Message-ID: <20060213115545.00fcbfca.Tommy.Reynolds@MegaCoder.com> Hello, Translators! (I've CC:'ed the F-D-L as well.) I'm reworking the I18N support in the Fedora Documentation Project tools, such as the CVS. Previously, each document has had a set of base DocBook XML files. As translations were produced, complete new sets of translated XML files were added to the CVS repository. Now, we are moving to the more familiar process of archiving only the original document XML files and the .POT/.PO files needed to produce the translated XML files using the "xml2po" and "po2xml" tools. The new make(1) infrastructure will be able to use the .PO files to create the translated XML files on-the-fly. For example, the files "en/example-tutorial.xml" and "po/de.po" will be archived but the derived "de/example-tutorial.xml" file will NOT be archived but will be considered as a temporary file. My question is this: Some FDP documents already have translated versions in CVS. Under the new process, these archived versions will be discarded in favor of the on-the-fly translation using .PO files. Q1) Have you translators kept your .PO files that were used for these translations? Q2) If .PO files are not available, is there a way to derive the .PO files from the translated files or must this be a manual process? If you have another suggestion to dealing with this, don't be shy; I may not be asking the right questions. Cheers From Tommy.Reynolds at MegaCoder.com Mon Feb 13 18:41:07 2006 From: Tommy.Reynolds at MegaCoder.com (Tommy Reynolds) Date: Mon, 13 Feb 2006 12:41:07 -0600 Subject: docs-common Makefile.common,1.52,1.53 In-Reply-To: <200602131829.k1DITwg2021147@cvs-int.fedora.redhat.com> References: <200602131829.k1DITwg2021147@cvs-int.fedora.redhat.com> Message-ID: <20060213124107.cb661c90.Tommy.Reynolds@MegaCoder.com> Uttered "Paul W. Frields" (pfrields) , spake thus: > Add src-tarball phony target for use when VERSION isn't known externally When is the version not known? Cheers From Tommy.Reynolds at MegaCoder.com Mon Feb 13 18:46:06 2006 From: Tommy.Reynolds at MegaCoder.com (Tommy Reynolds) Date: Mon, 13 Feb 2006 12:46:06 -0600 Subject: docs-common Makefile.common,1.53,1.54 In-Reply-To: <200602131834.k1DIYM9v021384@cvs-int.fedora.redhat.com> References: <200602131834.k1DIYM9v021384@cvs-int.fedora.redhat.com> Message-ID: <20060213124606.d71acf47.Tommy.Reynolds@MegaCoder.com> Uttered "Paul W. Frields" (pfrields) , spake thus: > Log Message: > Oops, remember Tommy's rule of good behavior in targets > > Index: Makefile.common > ')' -prune -o -print | cpio -pamdv $(DOCBASE)-$(VERSION) > - tar -zcvf $@ $(DOCBASE)-$(VERSION)/ > + tar -zcvf $(DOCBASE)-$(VERSION).src.tar.gz $(DOCBASE)-$(VERSION)/ Is that my rule? Nothing wrong with the original line; I _like_ shorthands like "$@". The problem is when $*, $@ and the like appear in a template; then they must be written like this: define FOO_template target-${1}:: file.foo cp $$< $$@ endef $(foreach F,abc def,$(eval $(call FOO_template,${F}))) That is, you must escape the '$@' in the template because we don't want it expanded as part of the template expansion, but later when the target is evaluated. Cheers From stickster at gmail.com Mon Feb 13 18:53:30 2006 From: stickster at gmail.com (Paul W. Frields) Date: Mon, 13 Feb 2006 13:53:30 -0500 Subject: docs-common Makefile.common,1.52,1.53 In-Reply-To: <20060213124107.cb661c90.Tommy.Reynolds@MegaCoder.com> References: <200602131829.k1DITwg2021147@cvs-int.fedora.redhat.com> <20060213124107.cb661c90.Tommy.Reynolds@MegaCoder.com> Message-ID: <1139856810.4119.20.camel@localhost.localdomain> On Mon, 2006-02-13 at 12:41 -0600, Tommy Reynolds wrote: > Uttered "Paul W. Frields" (pfrields) , spake thus: > > > Add src-tarball phony target for use when VERSION isn't known externally > > When is the version not known? Keeping the build-docs simple on webtest.f.r.c, there is not a lot of logic built in for finding current version numbers, but we want to be able to generate a .src.tar.gz for use in FE review if needed. -- Paul W. Frields, RHCE http://paul.frields.org/ gpg fingerprint: 3DA6 A0AC 6D58 FEC4 0233 5906 ACDB C937 BD11 3717 Fedora Documentation Project: http://fedora.redhat.com/projects/docs/ -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: signature.asc Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 189 bytes Desc: This is a digitally signed message part URL: From stickster at gmail.com Mon Feb 13 18:57:08 2006 From: stickster at gmail.com (Paul W. Frields) Date: Mon, 13 Feb 2006 13:57:08 -0500 Subject: docs-common Makefile.common,1.53,1.54 In-Reply-To: <20060213124606.d71acf47.Tommy.Reynolds@MegaCoder.com> References: <200602131834.k1DIYM9v021384@cvs-int.fedora.redhat.com> <20060213124606.d71acf47.Tommy.Reynolds@MegaCoder.com> Message-ID: <1139857028.4119.23.camel@localhost.localdomain> On Mon, 2006-02-13 at 12:46 -0600, Tommy Reynolds wrote: > Uttered "Paul W. Frields" (pfrields) , spake thus: > > > Log Message: > > Oops, remember Tommy's rule of good behavior in targets > > > > Index: Makefile.common > > ')' -prune -o -print | cpio -pamdv $(DOCBASE)-$(VERSION) > > - tar -zcvf $@ $(DOCBASE)-$(VERSION)/ > > + tar -zcvf $(DOCBASE)-$(VERSION).src.tar.gz $(DOCBASE)-$(VERSION)/ > > Is that my rule? > > Nothing wrong with the original line; I _like_ shorthands like "$@". > > The problem is when $*, $@ and the like appear in a template; then > they must be written like this: > > define FOO_template > target-${1}:: file.foo > cp $$< $$@ > endef > $(foreach F,abc def,$(eval $(call FOO_template,${F}))) > > That is, you must escape the '$@' in the template because we don't > want it expanded as part of the template expansion, but later when > the target is evaluated. Uh... yeah... that's what I meant, even if I didn't mean it that way. :-D Didn't mean to attribute a bad rule to you. But since I don't want to build files called "src-tarball" this was a good change to make, regardless! -- Paul W. Frields, RHCE http://paul.frields.org/ gpg fingerprint: 3DA6 A0AC 6D58 FEC4 0233 5906 ACDB C937 BD11 3717 Fedora Documentation Project: http://fedora.redhat.com/projects/docs/ -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: signature.asc Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 189 bytes Desc: This is a digitally signed message part URL: From Tommy.Reynolds at MegaCoder.com Mon Feb 13 19:24:01 2006 From: Tommy.Reynolds at MegaCoder.com (Tommy Reynolds) Date: Mon, 13 Feb 2006 13:24:01 -0600 Subject: docs-common Makefile.common,1.52,1.53 In-Reply-To: <1139856810.4119.20.camel@localhost.localdomain> References: <200602131829.k1DITwg2021147@cvs-int.fedora.redhat.com> <20060213124107.cb661c90.Tommy.Reynolds@MegaCoder.com> <1139856810.4119.20.camel@localhost.localdomain> Message-ID: <20060213132401.770d7cfa.Tommy.Reynolds@MegaCoder.com> Uttered "Paul W. Frields" , spake thus: > > > Add src-tarball phony target for use when VERSION isn't known externally > > When is the version not known? > Keeping the build-docs simple on webtest.f.r.c, there is not a lot of > logic built in for finding current version numbers, but we want to be > able to generate a .src.tar.gz for use in FE review if needed. OK. I knew there was a reason. Cheers From kwade at redhat.com Mon Feb 13 22:08:46 2006 From: kwade at redhat.com (Karsten Wade) Date: Mon, 13 Feb 2006 14:08:46 -0800 Subject: Self-Introduction: Tony Crouch In-Reply-To: <1139825017.5740.10.camel@localhost.localdomain> References: <1139825017.5740.10.camel@localhost.localdomain> Message-ID: <1139868527.11779.377.camel@erato.phig.org> On Mon, 2006-02-13 at 21:03 +1100, Tony Crouch wrote: > Hi All, Hi Tony, welcome. > Am just wanting to introduce myself to this list. I have been a user of > Fedora for a number of years and am keen to get more involved. I am > hoping that through this 'side' of Fedora development I may be able to > lend a hand where possible. Regardless of the task meniality. "Meniality"? I dub thee a neologist! ;-) > I will be the first to admit that I am still much of a fedora novice. The Getting Started Guide (GSG) team has requested assistance: http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Docs/Drafts/GettingStartedGuide One of the guide's writer/editors is going to contact you back through this list, initially, to get you started. Target is a guide ready for FC5, 15 March. Many hands make light work. As a bonus I'm offering to the GSG team: if you make the 03 March 23:59 UTC freeze, I'll make sure your guides are available for translation for the 15 March FC5 release. Cross your fingers, it might even be through http://i18n.redhat.com/cgi-bin/i18n-status. Some light reading to get you ready to write in the Wiki: http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/DocsProject/WritingUsingTheWiki http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/WikiEditing#Marking_Technical_Terms Again, welcome, your hands shall be put to good use. Whenever you see anything else of interest, just dive right in. Cheers - Karsten -- Karsten Wade, RHCE * Sr. Tech Writer * http://people.redhat.com/kwade/ gpg fingerprint: 2680 DBFD D968 3141 0115 5F1B D992 0E06 AD0E 0C41 Content Services Fedora Documentation Project http://www.redhat.com/docs http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/DocsProject -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: signature.asc Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 189 bytes Desc: This is a digitally signed message part URL: From andrewm at inventa.ru Tue Feb 14 07:23:01 2006 From: andrewm at inventa.ru (Andrew Martynov) Date: Tue, 14 Feb 2006 10:23:01 +0300 Subject: [RFC] Existing translations and .PO files In-Reply-To: <20060213115545.00fcbfca.Tommy.Reynolds@MegaCoder.com> References: <20060213115545.00fcbfca.Tommy.Reynolds@MegaCoder.com> Message-ID: <20060214072301.GA16421@mk61.inventa.ru> Hello, Tommy! Russian translation team use .PO file based method from the begining. A1) We already have .PO files. A2) none Regards, Andrew Martynov Inventa On Mon, Feb 13, 2006 at 11:55:45AM -0600, Tommy Reynolds wrote: > Hello, Translators! > > (I've CC:'ed the F-D-L as well.) > > I'm reworking the I18N support in the Fedora Documentation Project > tools, such as the CVS. > > Previously, each document has had a set of base DocBook XML files. > As translations were produced, complete new sets of translated XML > files were added to the CVS repository. > > Now, we are moving to the more familiar process of archiving only the > original document XML files and the .POT/.PO files needed to produce > the translated XML files using the "xml2po" and "po2xml" tools. > > The new make(1) infrastructure will be able to use the .PO files to > create the translated XML files on-the-fly. For example, the files > "en/example-tutorial.xml" and "po/de.po" will be archived but the > derived "de/example-tutorial.xml" file will NOT be archived but will > be considered as a temporary file. > > My question is this: > > Some FDP documents already have translated versions in CVS. Under > the new process, these archived versions will be discarded in favor > of the on-the-fly translation using .PO files. > > Q1) Have you translators kept your .PO files that were used for these > translations? > > Q2) If .PO files are not available, is there a way to derive the .PO > files from the translated files or must this be a manual process? > > If you have another suggestion to dealing with this, don't be shy; I > may not be asking the right questions. > > Cheers > > -- > fedora-docs-list mailing list > fedora-docs-list at redhat.com > To unsubscribe: > https://www.redhat.com/mailman/listinfo/fedora-docs-list From bbbush.yuan at gmail.com Tue Feb 14 07:46:19 2006 From: bbbush.yuan at gmail.com (Yuan Yijun) Date: Tue, 14 Feb 2006 15:46:19 +0800 Subject: [RFC] Existing translations and .PO files In-Reply-To: <20060214072301.GA16421@mk61.inventa.ru> References: <20060213115545.00fcbfca.Tommy.Reynolds@MegaCoder.com> <20060214072301.GA16421@mk61.inventa.ru> Message-ID: <76e72f800602132346q743b4b5ek@mail.gmail.com> Simplified chinese translations are using Andrew's script to generate po files. So the answer is yes! And it would be wonderful if xml can be built automatically! -- bbbush (Yours sincerely) @>->--- ^_^ From kwade at redhat.com Tue Feb 14 14:29:13 2006 From: kwade at redhat.com (Karsten Wade) Date: Tue, 14 Feb 2006 06:29:13 -0800 Subject: cvs import... In-Reply-To: <200602102332.07232.tombo@adamantio.net> References: <200602102332.07232.tombo@adamantio.net> Message-ID: <1139927353.11779.423.camel@erato.phig.org> On Fri, 2006-02-10 at 23:32 -0500, Francesco Tombolini wrote: > During the configuration of cervisia, I do an import... > > please, can someone help me to revert the previous condition? Sorry about the late reply. Did you get help with this? - Karsten -- Karsten Wade, RHCE * Sr. Tech Writer * http://people.redhat.com/kwade/ gpg fingerprint: 2680 DBFD D968 3141 0115 5F1B D992 0E06 AD0E 0C41 Content Services Fedora Documentation Project http://www.redhat.com/docs http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/DocsProject -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: signature.asc Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 189 bytes Desc: This is a digitally signed message part URL: From kwade at redhat.com Tue Feb 14 15:18:50 2006 From: kwade at redhat.com (Karsten Wade) Date: Tue, 14 Feb 2006 07:18:50 -0800 Subject: NSG style manual Message-ID: <1139930331.11779.445.camel@erato.phig.org> Here's an interesting reference: http://stylemanual.nationalgeographic.com/ - Karsten -- Karsten Wade, RHCE * Sr. Tech Writer * http://people.redhat.com/kwade/ gpg fingerprint: 2680 DBFD D968 3141 0115 5F1B D992 0E06 AD0E 0C41 Content Services Fedora Documentation Project http://www.redhat.com/docs http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/DocsProject -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: signature.asc Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 189 bytes Desc: This is a digitally signed message part URL: From nman64 at n-man.com Tue Feb 14 16:30:25 2006 From: nman64 at n-man.com (Patrick Barnes) Date: Tue, 14 Feb 2006 10:30:25 -0600 Subject: cvs import... In-Reply-To: <1139927353.11779.423.camel@erato.phig.org> References: <200602102332.07232.tombo@adamantio.net> <1139927353.11779.423.camel@erato.phig.org> Message-ID: <200602141030.28691.nman64@n-man.com> On Tuesday 14 February 2006 08:29, Karsten Wade wrote: > On Fri, 2006-02-10 at 23:32 -0500, Francesco Tombolini wrote: > > During the configuration of cervisia, I do an import... > > > > please, can someone help me to revert the previous condition? > > Sorry about the late reply. > > Did you get help with this? > > - Karsten I conducted a 'cvs remove' against the imported items shortly after seeing the issue. We should be good-to-go. -- Patrick "The N-Man" Barnes nman64 at n-man.com http://www.n-man.com/ -- Have I been helpful? Rate my assistance! http://rate.affero.net/nman64/ -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 189 bytes Desc: not available URL: From stuart at elsn.org Tue Feb 14 22:38:43 2006 From: stuart at elsn.org (Stuart Ellis) Date: Tue, 14 Feb 2006 22:38:43 +0000 Subject: Minutes of FDSCo Meeting 14 February 2006 Message-ID: <1139956723.3161.38.camel@localhost.localdomain> Attending Members: ------------------ Karsten Wade (quaid) Tommy Reynolds (megacoder) Paul Frields (stickster) Gavin Henry (G2) Stuart Ellis (elliss) Also Participating: ------------------- Patrick Barnes (nman64) Ignacio Vazquez-Abrams (ignacio) Schedule of Tasks: ------------------ http://www.fedoraproject.org/wiki/DocsProject/FedoraDocsSchedule Highlights: ----------- * Karsten: Fedora documentation to be relicensed under the OPL. The optional "no-modification" clause will not be used, to ensure that the documentation is freely modifiable as well as being freely distributable. The Wiki content will also be explicitly licensed under the OPL. This requires the agreement of contributors. Each contributor to the Wiki will be contacted for their approval. Preliminary information is on Karsten's blog entry for February 14: http://fedora.linux.duke.edu/fedorapeople/ More information to be posted on the Documentation mailing list shortly. * Karsten: The documentation maintained by Red Hat is to be relicensed to match the new Fedora documentation licensing. This will include the Directory Server documentation, as well as the documentation for Red Hat Enterprise Linux. The common license will enable Red Hat Content Services and outside contributors to collaborate through Fedora. It will also enable the documentation to be redistributed with Fedora. * Tommy: Documentation translators have agreed to transition to the PO method of providing translations. * Paul: A start page is required for the desktop help browsers. The files will need to be included in the fedora-release package. This bug tracks progress: https://bugzilla.redhat.com/bugzilla/show_bug.cgi?id=170847 Full IRC Log: ------------- https://www.redhat.com/archives/fedora-dsco-list/2006-February/msg00012.html -- Stuart Ellis stuart at elsn.org Fedora Documentation Project: http://fedora.redhat.com/projects/docs/ GPG key ID: 7098ABEA GPG key fingerprint: 68B0 E291 FB19 C845 E60E 9569 292E E365 7098 ABEA -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: signature.asc Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 189 bytes Desc: This is a digitally signed message part URL: From nman64 at n-man.com Wed Feb 15 02:52:17 2006 From: nman64 at n-man.com (Patrick Barnes) Date: Tue, 14 Feb 2006 20:52:17 -0600 Subject: Wiki Licensing Message-ID: <200602142052.21336.nman64@n-man.com> The Fedora Documentation Project has agreed to the OPL[1] for all formal documentation. We now wish to apply this same license to the fedoraproject.org wiki. This will require some dramatic actions and changes, and will have a huge impact on contributions to the wiki. The single biggest change would be the requirement of the CLA for EditGroup privileges. Rather than make a closed and unilateral decision, this is now briefly open for discussion. The currently-proposed plan is now on the wiki[2], and this wiki page is the place to add your comments. You may subscribe to the page if you wish to keep track of things. If the decision is made to go through with this plan (and, no, it isn't a vote), changes would happen quickly. The decision is ultimately up to the Fedora Foundation board and a few key personnel. The idea already has the backing of the Fedora Documentation Project, myself, and our top wiki editors. [1] http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Legal/Licenses/OPL [2] http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/WikiLicenseTalk -- Patrick "The N-Man" Barnes nman64 at n-man.com http://www.n-man.com/ -- Have I been helpful? Rate my assistance! http://rate.affero.net/nman64/ -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 189 bytes Desc: not available URL: From Tommy.Reynolds at MegaCoder.com Wed Feb 15 07:09:22 2006 From: Tommy.Reynolds at MegaCoder.com (Tommy Reynolds) Date: Wed, 15 Feb 2006 01:09:22 -0600 Subject: [ANN] Shape Of Things To Come Message-ID: <20060215010922.478c950d.Tommy.Reynolds@MegaCoder.com> My Fellow Contributors, Now that the FC5t3 Release Notes panic is over, at least for some of us, it is time to break things agai.. I mean, to add wonderful new features. To better fit the process model used by the I18N translating teams, our file organization and toolchain need to be modified. Previously, non-English documents have been committed to CVS based on their translated XML files. However, translators do not work with XML files the same way that document authors do. Translators use an intermediate file format known as .POT or .PO files, edit those .PO files, and then merge the translations back into XML form to produce the translated XML files; translated XML files do not spring fully-formed from the mind of Zeus but are derived via merging these .PO files with the original XML files. Regrettably, I cannot make all the accomodations necesssary for this solely in the "Makefile.common" file. Document authors will need to help. Happily, the changes should be trivial. Here is a quick summary of the pending changes. Refer to the "example-tutorial/" document to see the required changes. 1) Only one rpm-info.xml file, and that is in the top-level dir. "One rpm-info file to rule them all, and in their XML bind them." 2) XML file names are now language independant (para.xml, not para-en.xml). This is necessary because the translated XML files are produced by substituting replacement text directly into the original XML document files, in an automated process. If referenced XML files, such as , have language-specific names, the translated XML file will reference the wrong picture. Therefore, all filenames must not contain a "*-${LANG}.xml" component. 3) The "Makefile" in the document directory has been completely rewritten. Since translated XML files are automatically created, the original document language must be separated from the enumeration of the translated locales. A ${PRI_LANG} variable identifies the original language for the document. Additional language translations are listed in the ${OTHERS} macro. The ${XMLEXTRAFILES-${LANG}} variable is no more; instead an XMLFILES_template must be filled out to enumerate the necessary XML files. 4) Translated XML files are automatically generated from .POT and .PO files located in a "po/" directory. The "po/" file need not exist until translations are created and the ${OTHERS} "Makefile" list populated. The "po/" directory must be under CVS control. 5) Translated XML files should NOT be archived in CVS, since they are now generated files. There should be real XML files in the "${PRI_LANG}/" directory and that directory should be under CVS control. Directories and files for the translations enumerated in the ${OTHERS} list are dynamically created and destroyed. For example, if ${OTHERS} is defined as: OTHERS=de no it ru Then directories "de/", "no/", "it/", "ru/" need NOT exist and should NOT be placed under CVS control. XML files such as "de/example-tutorial.xml" will be dynamically created from the "en/example-tutorial.xml", "po/example-tutorial.pot", and "po/de.xml" files and should NOT be placed under CVS control. 6) Many new virtual targets have been added to "Makefile.common", such as "make xml-de", "make po-de", and the like. Consult the "Makefile.common". You'll just have to look ;-) As always, comments, suggestions, patches and bribes are cheerfully accepted. Cheers From bbbush.yuan at gmail.com Wed Feb 15 08:05:07 2006 From: bbbush.yuan at gmail.com (Yuan Yijun) Date: Wed, 15 Feb 2006 16:05:07 +0800 Subject: [ANN] Shape Of Things To Come In-Reply-To: <20060215010922.478c950d.Tommy.Reynolds@MegaCoder.com> References: <20060215010922.478c950d.Tommy.Reynolds@MegaCoder.com> Message-ID: <76e72f800602150005u1a9349cdp@mail.gmail.com> 2006/2/15, Tommy Reynolds : > My Fellow Contributors, > > Now that the FC5t3 Release Notes panic is over, at least for some of > us, it is time to break things agai.. I mean, to add wonderful new > features. > > To better fit the process model used by the I18N translating teams, > our file organization and toolchain need to be modified. Previously, > non-English documents have been committed to CVS based on their > translated XML files. However, translators do not work with XML > files the same way that document authors do. Translators use an > intermediate file format known as .POT or .PO files, edit those .PO > files, and then merge the translations back into XML form to produce > the translated XML files; translated XML files do not spring > fully-formed from the mind of Zeus but are derived via merging these > .PO files with the original XML files. > > Regrettably, I cannot make all the accomodations necesssary for this > solely in the "Makefile.common" file. Document authors will need to > help. Happily, the changes should be trivial. > > Here is a quick summary of the pending changes. Refer to the > "example-tutorial/" document to see the required changes. > > 1) Only one rpm-info.xml file, and that is in the top-level dir. > > "One rpm-info file to rule them all, and in their XML bind them." > > 2) XML file names are now language independant (para.xml, not > para-en.xml). > > This is necessary because the translated XML files are produced > by substituting replacement text directly into the original XML > document files, in an automated process. If referenced XML > files, such as , have language-specific names, the > translated XML file will reference the wrong picture. > > Therefore, all filenames must not contain a "*-${LANG}.xml" > component. > > 3) The "Makefile" in the document directory has been completely > rewritten. > > Since translated XML files are automatically created, the > original document language must be separated from the enumeration > of the translated locales. > > A ${PRI_LANG} variable identifies the original language for > the document. Additional language translations are listed in the > ${OTHERS} macro. The ${XMLEXTRAFILES-${LANG}} variable is no > more; instead an XMLFILES_template must be filled out to > enumerate the necessary XML files. > > 4) Translated XML files are automatically generated from .POT and > .PO files located in a "po/" directory. > > The "po/" file need not exist until translations are created and > the ${OTHERS} "Makefile" list populated. The "po/" directory > must be under CVS control. > > 5) Translated XML files should NOT be archived in CVS, since they > are now generated files. > > There should be real XML files in the "${PRI_LANG}/" directory > and that directory should be under CVS control. > > Directories and files for the translations enumerated in the > ${OTHERS} list are dynamically created and destroyed. For > example, if ${OTHERS} is defined as: > > OTHERS=de no it ru > > Then directories "de/", "no/", "it/", "ru/" need NOT exist and > should NOT be placed under CVS control. > > XML files such as "de/example-tutorial.xml" will be dynamically > created from the "en/example-tutorial.xml", > "po/example-tutorial.pot", and "po/de.xml" files and should NOT > be placed under CVS control. > > 6) Many new virtual targets have been added to "Makefile.common", > such as "make xml-de", "make po-de", and the like. > > Consult the "Makefile.common". You'll just have to look ;-) > > As always, comments, suggestions, patches and bribes are cheerfully > accepted. > > Cheers > Cheers! I have long been waiting for such things to happen. Previously I have to generate pot, merge and translate, generate xml and edit entities manually then compile.... long and boring. We can concentrate on one thing now. Not test yet, how about docs-common/common/fedora-entities-{$LANG}.ent? -- bbbush ^_^ From Tommy.Reynolds at MegaCoder.com Wed Feb 15 08:18:13 2006 From: Tommy.Reynolds at MegaCoder.com (Tommy Reynolds) Date: Wed, 15 Feb 2006 02:18:13 -0600 Subject: [ANN] Shape Of Things To Come In-Reply-To: <76e72f800602150005u1a9349cdp@mail.gmail.com> References: <20060215010922.478c950d.Tommy.Reynolds@MegaCoder.com> <76e72f800602150005u1a9349cdp@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <20060215021813.dd28f72e.Tommy.Reynolds@MegaCoder.com> Uttered Yuan Yijun , spake thus: > Not test yet, how about docs-common/common/fedora-entities-{$LANG}.ent? We have not decided how to deal with these entities yet. Do you have any ideas? Cheers From Tommy.Reynolds at MegaCoder.com Wed Feb 15 13:50:58 2006 From: Tommy.Reynolds at MegaCoder.com (Tommy Reynolds) Date: Wed, 15 Feb 2006 07:50:58 -0600 Subject: install-guide/en fdp-info.xml, NONE, 1.1.2.1 fedora-install-guide-abouttoinstall.xml, NONE, 1.1.2.1 fedora-install-guide-acknowledgements.xml, NONE, 1.1.2.1 fedora-install-guide-adminoptions.xml, NONE, 1.1.2.1 fedora-install-guide-beginninginstallation.xml, NONE, 1.1.2.1 fedora-install-guide-bootloader.xml, NONE, 1.1.2.1 fedora-install-guide-diskpartitioning.xml, NONE, 1.1.2.1 fedora-install-guide-firstboot.xml, NONE, 1.1.2.1 fedora-install-guide-installingpackages.xml, NONE, 1.1.2.1 fedora-install-guide-intro.xml, NONE, 1.1.2.1 fedora-install-guide-locale.xml, NONE, 1.1.2.1 fedora-install-guide-networkconfig.xml, NONE, 1.1.2.1 fedora-install-guide-nextsteps.xml, NONE, 1.1.2.1 fedora-install-guide-other-instmethods.xml, NONE, 1.1.2.1 fedora-install-guide-packageselection.xml, NONE, 1.1.2.1 fedora-install-guide-rootpassword.xml, NONE, 1.1.2.1 fedora-install-guide-techref.xml, NONE, 1.1.2.1 fedora-install-guide-timezone.xml, NONE, 1.1.2.1 fedora-install-guide-upgrading.xml, NONE, 1.1.2.1 fedora-install-gu! ide.xml,NONE,1.1.2.1 In-Reply-To: <200602151148.k1FBm6Rc029824@cvs-int.fedora.redhat.com> References: <200602151148.k1FBm6Rc029824@cvs-int.fedora.redhat.com> Message-ID: <20060215075058.935a40c0.Tommy.Reynolds@MegaCoder.com> Uttered "Scott Glaser" (sonarguy) , spake thus: > Author: sonarguy > > Update of /cvs/docs/install-guide/en > In directory cvs-int.fedora.redhat.com:/tmp/cvs-serv29808/en > > Added Files: > Tag: FC5_SAG > fdp-info.xml Since "fdp-info.xml" is a derived file, CVS control is not appropriate. Cheers From kwade at redhat.com Wed Feb 15 14:57:29 2006 From: kwade at redhat.com (Karsten Wade) Date: Wed, 15 Feb 2006 06:57:29 -0800 Subject: Wiki Licensing In-Reply-To: <200602142052.21336.nman64@n-man.com> References: <200602142052.21336.nman64@n-man.com> Message-ID: <1140015449.18050.79.camel@erato.phig.org> On Tue, 2006-02-14 at 20:52 -0600, Patrick Barnes wrote: > The Fedora Documentation Project has agreed to the OPL[1] for all formal > documentation. We now wish to apply this same license to the > fedoraproject.org wiki. To be clear, and I'll wait for response before changing WikiLicenseTalk, the FDP is accountable for all Fedora content. Does this not cover the Wiki content already? Why the differentiation? 1. Work on the Wiki tools is obviously under a different license, so we need to be clear we mean Wiki content. 2. The OPL is a policy we need to set for all content that is copyright of the Foundation. The same content can be dual-licensed (or triple- licensed), it's just that the Foundation wants to use the OPL. This matters because of how we interact with other knowledge repositories. This weekend the Fedora Unity project is voting on using the OPL for their websites, and I'm going to be at that meeting to encourage that they do for interoperability. We have to consider this when approving additional Fedora websites as formal. The owners of that content are welcome to whatever license they prefer, but if they don't also put it under the OPL, we cannot intermingle with it. Shame for modularity and reduction of efforts. > This will require some dramatic actions and changes, > and will have a huge impact on contributions to the wiki. The single biggest > change would be the requirement of the CLA for EditGroup privileges. While I'm in favor [below for reason], I note that this is a sea change. Adding someone to the Wiki has gone from: 1. Add them to EditGroup 2. ??? 3. Profit to: 1. Get them started on admin.fedora. 2. Teach them about GPG. 3. Wait and watch 50% of them disappear. 4. ... We have benefited from very low barriers when it comes to the Wiki. The question is, is the barrier too low? Greg had suggested that we just put out on the sign-up page, this is OPL, like this has: http://directory.fedora.redhat.com/wiki/ContentLicense AIUI, that page is lawyer-dude approved. Without the CLA, the Foundation doesn't have any copyright on the materials, but if we create a mechanism that is a click-through agreement to use the OPL, aren't we covered for the future of that content? If they put it on the Wiki, it is OPL, so we can use it, and who cares about the copyright? Well, only if we want to relicense *again* someday, and, Lords and Ladies, I hope I am not around if that happens. [reason] Why am I in favor of the CLA for all contributors (code and content)? Because then we _never_have_to_do_this_again_. We are looking at having to pull out content from the Wiki from anyone who doesn't agree to the OPL. Just think about that. For the XML in CVS, which you have to have a CLA to get into, if someone doesn't agree, that's OK, Fedora can fork and relicense as a copyright holder. Right? Our job is to convince every single content contributor that this license changes is a Good Thing. And it really is. But you know how people are ... So: * We risk losing active contributors who don't like our tactics, no matter what they are. * We risk future contributors who don't want to get over the barrier. A question is: * What is fedoraproject.org? 1. End-user created documentation? 2. Project-member created documentation? If it is 2, then it has to have the same protections and guarantees as the rest of the code. Without the CLA in place, we cannot guarantee that the content we are providing is going to remain forever free/libre. > Rather > than make a closed and unilateral decision, this is now briefly open for > discussion. The currently-proposed plan is now on the wiki[2], and this wiki > page is the place to add your comments. You may subscribe to the page if you > wish to keep track of things. > > If the decision is made to go through with this plan (and, no, it isn't a > vote), To be clear, the OPL change to the Wiki is not what is up to vote. How we implement that change is up to discussion. Please help us make the right decision. - Karsten -- Karsten Wade, RHCE * Sr. Tech Writer * http://people.redhat.com/kwade/ gpg fingerprint: 2680 DBFD D968 3141 0115 5F1B D992 0E06 AD0E 0C41 Content Services Fedora Documentation Project http://www.redhat.com/docs http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/DocsProject -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: signature.asc Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 189 bytes Desc: This is a digitally signed message part URL: From sonar_guy at c-ccom.com Wed Feb 15 15:44:48 2006 From: sonar_guy at c-ccom.com (Scott Glaser) Date: Wed, 15 Feb 2006 10:44:48 -0500 Subject: install-guide/en fdp-info.xml, NONE, 1.1.2.1 fedora-install-guide-abouttoinstall.xml, NONE, 1.1.2.1 fedora-install-guide-acknowledgements.xml, NONE, 1.1.2.1 fedora-install-guide-adminoptions.xml, NONE, 1.1.2.1 fedora-install-guide-beginninginstallation.xml, NONE, 1.1.2.1 fedora-install-guide-bootloader.xml, NONE, 1.1.2.1 fedora-install-guide-diskpartitioning.xml, NONE, 1.1.2.1 fedora-install-guide-firstboot.xml, NONE, 1.1.2.1 fedora-install-guide-installingpackages.xml, NONE, 1.1.2.1 fedora-install-guide-intro.xml, NONE, 1.1.2.1 fedora-install-guide-locale.xml, NONE, 1.1.2.1 fedora-install-guide-networkconfig.xml, NONE, 1.1.2.1 fedora-install-guide-nextsteps.xml, NONE, 1.1.2.1 fedora-install-guide-other-instmethods.xml, NONE, 1.1.2.1 fedora-install-guide-packageselection.xml, NONE, 1.1.2.1 fedora-install-guide-rootpassword.xml, NONE, 1.1.2.1 fedora-install-guide-techref.xml, NONE, 1.1.2.1 fedora-install-guide-timezone.xml, NONE, 1.1.2.1 fedora-install-guide-upgrading.xml, NONE, 1.1.2.1 fedora-install-gu! ide.xml,NONE,1.1.2.1 In-Reply-To: <20060215075058.935a40c0.Tommy.Reynolds@MegaCoder.com> References: <200602151148.k1FBm6Rc029824@cvs-int.fedora.redhat.com> <20060215075058.935a40c0.Tommy.Reynolds@MegaCoder.com> Message-ID: <1140018288.3154.6.camel@compaqlaptop> On Wed, 2006-02-15 at 07:50 -0600, Tommy Reynolds wrote: > Uttered "Scott Glaser" (sonarguy) , spake thus: > > > Author: sonarguy > > > > Update of /cvs/docs/install-guide/en > > In directory cvs-int.fedora.redhat.com:/tmp/cvs-serv29808/en > > > > Added Files: > > Tag: FC5_SAG > > fdp-info.xml > > Since "fdp-info.xml" is a derived file, CVS control is not > appropriate. > > Cheers Fixed!! -- Scott Glaser Fedora Core User Web - http://fedoraunity.org/ Key fingerprint = 61F5 C7DF 2F63 4A53 44D2 B9BE 3841 EA4F 5990 00BD -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: signature.asc Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 189 bytes Desc: This is a digitally signed message part URL: From kwade at redhat.com Thu Feb 16 01:22:34 2006 From: kwade at redhat.com (Karsten Wade) Date: Wed, 15 Feb 2006 17:22:34 -0800 Subject: Licensing, what's coming Message-ID: <1140052954.18050.200.camel@erato.phig.org> Oh, this is the most fun email I've written in a while. This project, Fedora Documentation, is changing our content license to the OPL without options: http://opencontent.org/openpub/ The relevant section that we are *not* using is VI. LICENSE OPTIONS. Lots of questions are answered here: http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/DocsProject/Licensing/FAQ Please read that. Anything unanswered, bring it back here and we'll get it answered and in the FAQ. Right now we're working on the basics: * Who doesn't have a CLA? * What has to be changed? * Where do we change it? * How do we get everyone's approval? * When (how fast) can we do this? With this change, we are going to be able to use the content from Red Hat documentation, which is switching to use the same OPL without options. As a person who knows all of that content intimately, I tell you that this is going to be a great boost to the Fedora Documentation Project! No details from that yet, but I'll bring them out as I find them in digestible form (real food == real facts). We are not debating the merits of licenses and making decisions for the Fedora Project on this list. Thankfully we have the Fedora Foundation board and their lawyer friends to do that for us. We just get the good results of their decision to implement. FWIW, I'm a fan of the OPL without options. As a writer/creator, I find it is the cleanest and most understandable open content license. Hurrah! Happy writing/tooling/reading/enjoying. - Karsten -- Karsten Wade, RHCE * Sr. Tech Writer * http://people.redhat.com/kwade/ gpg fingerprint: 2680 DBFD D968 3141 0115 5F1B D992 0E06 AD0E 0C41 Content Services Fedora Documentation Project http://www.redhat.com/docs http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/DocsProject -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: signature.asc Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 189 bytes Desc: This is a digitally signed message part URL: From kwade at redhat.com Thu Feb 16 01:49:47 2006 From: kwade at redhat.com (Karsten Wade) Date: Wed, 15 Feb 2006 17:49:47 -0800 Subject: Please trim subjects (was Re: install-guide/en fdp-info.xml .........) In-Reply-To: <20060215075058.935a40c0.Tommy.Reynolds@MegaCoder.com> References: <200602151148.k1FBm6Rc029824@cvs-int.fedora.redhat.com> <20060215075058.935a40c0.Tommy.Reynolds@MegaCoder.com> Message-ID: <1140054587.18050.208.camel@erato.phig.org> Wow, I just discovered that when we reply to a commit log email and don't trim the subject, Mailman doesn't do it for us either: http://www.redhat.com/archives/fedora-docs-list/2006-February/msg00107.html That is all. :) Oh, if it's relevant, maybe just move the content of the subject into the body of the email. Google finds it just the same. - Karsten -- Karsten Wade, RHCE * Sr. Tech Writer * http://people.redhat.com/kwade/ gpg fingerprint: 2680 DBFD D968 3141 0115 5F1B D992 0E06 AD0E 0C41 Content Services Fedora Documentation Project http://www.redhat.com/docs http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/DocsProject -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: signature.asc Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 189 bytes Desc: This is a digitally signed message part URL: From nman64 at n-man.com Fri Feb 17 00:06:24 2006 From: nman64 at n-man.com (Patrick Barnes) Date: Thu, 16 Feb 2006 18:06:24 -0600 Subject: [ANN] Fedora Project Wiki Policy Change Message-ID: <200602161806.29490.nman64@n-man.com> The Fedora Foundation has decided that all Fedora documentation, including the fedoraproject.org wiki, will be licensed under the terms of the Open Publication License 1.0[1] without options. Unfortunately, the Fedora Project does not have copyright privileges over the wiki's existing content. Since we have allowed anyone to edit the wiki without any sort of licensing or copyright assignment, we cannot cover the existing content without the agreement of each contributor. To solve this issue, we have come up with a plan[2]. Our plan will require that all contributors complete the CLA in the Fedora Account System[3] before joining the EditGroup. In order to facilitate our new changes, the EditGroup will be frozen effective immediately and through the weekend. Those of you who are in the EditGroup can continue to make edits during that time, but no new contributors are to be added to the EditGroup during the freeze. Everyone who is in the EditGroup but has not completed the CLA will be removed after this weekend. If you are currently in the EditGroup and have not completed the CLA, please take the time to do so now. This agreement will allow us to license your contributions under the OPL. If you have completed the CLA, but are removed after the weekend, contact someone in the revised EditGroup to add you again. All current EditGroup members who are removed will have their name added to a tracking page[4]. If your name is moved to that list, you will need to complete the CLA and remove yourself from the list to indicate that you agree to having your past contributions licensed under the OPL. DO NOT REMOVE OTHERS from this list. It will be monitored. After an undetermined waiting period, all contributions made by names still on this list will be removed from the wiki. If you would like to learn more about our licensing and other legal terms, visit the Legal page[5] on the wiki. [1] http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Legal/Licenses/OPL [2] http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/WikiLicenseTalk [3] http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Infrastructure/AccountSystem [4] http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/UnlicensedGroup [5] http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Legal -- Patrick "The N-Man" Barnes nman64 at n-man.com http://www.n-man.com/ -- Have I been helpful? Rate my assistance! http://rate.affero.net/nman64/ -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 189 bytes Desc: not available URL: From stickster at gmail.com Fri Feb 17 04:16:31 2006 From: stickster at gmail.com (Paul W. Frields) Date: Thu, 16 Feb 2006 23:16:31 -0500 Subject: New target Message-ID: <1140149791.27735.2.camel@localhost.localdomain> I didn't think was worth labeling as an ANN: There is now a "make txt" target in Makefile.common, so you can generate plain text versions of your doc (assuming you've updated it to build correctly as noted in previous email from myself and Tommy). Note that the current "txt" target strips the and out of a document -- the former because it is very much in the way of getting to the text, and the latter because it is essentially useless without the benefit of linking. Note also that "foonote" type links are not provided, which jibes with our usage standard of always using the URL as its own link text. Enjoy! -- Paul W. Frields, RHCE http://paul.frields.org/ gpg fingerprint: 3DA6 A0AC 6D58 FEC4 0233 5906 ACDB C937 BD11 3717 Fedora Documentation Project: http://fedora.redhat.com/projects/docs/ -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: signature.asc Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 189 bytes Desc: This is a digitally signed message part URL: From kwade at redhat.com Fri Feb 17 16:57:48 2006 From: kwade at redhat.com (Karsten Wade) Date: Fri, 17 Feb 2006 08:57:48 -0800 Subject: [ANN] Fedora Project Wiki Policy Change In-Reply-To: <6280325c0602170457j1d17c537qf5d4b8325e5e570c@mail.gmail.com> References: <200602161806.29490.nman64@n-man.com> <6280325c0602170457j1d17c537qf5d4b8325e5e570c@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <1140195468.18050.396.camel@erato.phig.org> Sorry, rejected this one by mistake, you weren't subscribed to some of the lists. Informative for all: On Fri, 2006-02-17 at 23:27 +1030, n0dalus wrote: > What should we do if we have already completed the CLA but our wiki > account has a different username to our bugzilla/accounts system > account? The connection between Wiki and CLA is manual, that is, Patrick et al are looking over the lists and making comparisons. If someone has wildly different usernames, you'll be asked to sign a CLA, and you can just reply back that you have one and under what name. Your GPG signature on that email would seal the deal. :) We'll be sure to make that point in the email to the people we request a CLA from. Thanks - Karsten -- Karsten Wade, RHCE * Sr. Tech Writer * http://people.redhat.com/kwade/ gpg fingerprint: 2680 DBFD D968 3141 0115 5F1B D992 0E06 AD0E 0C41 Content Services Fedora Documentation Project http://www.redhat.com/docs http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/DocsProject -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: signature.asc Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 189 bytes Desc: This is a digitally signed message part URL: From bbbush.yuan at gmail.com Sat Feb 18 10:15:26 2006 From: bbbush.yuan at gmail.com (Yuan Yijun) Date: Sat, 18 Feb 2006 18:15:26 +0800 Subject: install-guide/po zh_CN.po,1.1,1.2 In-Reply-To: <200602181011.k1IABnYv019516@cvs-int.fedora.redhat.com> References: <200602181011.k1IABnYv019516@cvs-int.fedora.redhat.com> Message-ID: <76e72f800602180215g58ede1cbm@mail.gmail.com> ? 06-2-18?bbbush Yuan Yijun ??? > Author: bbbush > > Update of /cvs/docs/install-guide/po > In directory cvs-int.fedora.redhat.com:/tmp/cvs-serv19498 > > Modified Files: > zh_CN.po > Log Message: > the old way of working > > I'm not using "make po-zh_CN" to get the po files. Instead I have to use Andrew's scripts, that is to replace &ENTITIES with &ENTITIES before running xml2po. Could this be fixed or I missed something? -- bbbush ^_^ From stuart at elsn.org Sat Feb 18 14:27:48 2006 From: stuart at elsn.org (Stuart Ellis) Date: Sat, 18 Feb 2006 14:27:48 +0000 Subject: install-guide/po zh_CN.po,1.1,1.2 In-Reply-To: <76e72f800602180215g58ede1cbm@mail.gmail.com> References: <200602181011.k1IABnYv019516@cvs-int.fedora.redhat.com> <76e72f800602180215g58ede1cbm@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <1140272868.3146.4.camel@localhost.localdomain> On Sat, 2006-02-18 at 18:15 +0800, Yuan Yijun wrote: > ? 06-2-18?bbbush Yuan Yijun ??? > > Author: bbbush > > > > Update of /cvs/docs/install-guide/po > > In directory cvs-int.fedora.redhat.com:/tmp/cvs-serv19498 > > > > Modified Files: > > zh_CN.po > > Log Message: > > the old way of working > > > > > > I'm not using "make po-zh_CN" to get the po files. Instead I have to > use Andrew's scripts, that is to replace &ENTITIES with &ENTITIES > before running xml2po. Could this be fixed or I missed something? Is this a general issue with using xml2po on documents, or is there a specific issue with the install-guide files (that I should fix) ? -- Stuart Ellis stuart at elsn.org Fedora Documentation Project: http://fedora.redhat.com/projects/docs/ GPG key ID: 7098ABEA GPG key fingerprint: 68B0 E291 FB19 C845 E60E 9569 292E E365 7098 ABEA -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: signature.asc Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 191 bytes Desc: This is a digitally signed message part URL: From bbbush.yuan at gmail.com Sat Feb 18 14:46:19 2006 From: bbbush.yuan at gmail.com (Yuan Yijun) Date: Sat, 18 Feb 2006 22:46:19 +0800 Subject: install-guide/po zh_CN.po,1.1,1.2 In-Reply-To: <1140272868.3146.4.camel@localhost.localdomain> References: <200602181011.k1IABnYv019516@cvs-int.fedora.redhat.com> <76e72f800602180215g58ede1cbm@mail.gmail.com> <1140272868.3146.4.camel@localhost.localdomain> Message-ID: <76e72f800602180646k15cafc91x@mail.gmail.com> 2006/2/18, Stuart Ellis : > > > > I'm not using "make po-zh_CN" to get the po files. Instead I have to > > use Andrew's scripts, that is to replace &ENTITIES with &ENTITIES > > before running xml2po. Could this be fixed or I missed something? > > Is this a general issue with using xml2po on documents, or is there a > specific issue with the install-guide files (that I should fix) ? > For yum-software-management, "make po-zh_CN" works. I cannot run this against other docs so I havn't test them. -- bbbush ^_^ From fedoradocs at ddeutsch.org Sat Feb 18 17:49:34 2006 From: fedoradocs at ddeutsch.org (Debra Deutsch) Date: Sat, 18 Feb 2006 12:49:34 -0500 Subject: Possible edits to the Overview wiki page Message-ID: <43F75E2E.1090106@ddeutsch.org> -----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- Hash: SHA1 Folks, I have been staring at the Overview wiki page. It is the very first page link in the project FAQ. I am thinking of making some changes to make it more helpful and understandable to people who are very new to the open source community. While I can see who has subscribed to the page, I can't tell who owns it. (I thought page info would tell me that.) So, I am posting here to see what people think about the possible edits. The main idea is to expand the page with some more explanation. There would be a little restructuring, but nothing as dramatic as breaking up the page. The additions would do the following: - - Say a few words about what is open source software and why it is good. Also, point to one or more references that give more in-depth discussion about that. (Does anyone have some favorite references about why open source is good?) - - Build on the first point by explaining that Fedora contains 100% open license software. Point out that the open source community frequently provides equal or better alternatives to propriety software. Make this point the context for the text that discusses ogg and mp3. Perhaps cite some additional examples. (Anyone care to suggest some of their favorites?) Beyond this, every time I look at that page I wonder what a new person, who has only heard that Fedora is a Linux distribution that is worth considering, might think about seeing "Freedom:", "Excellence:", and "How You Can Help:" at the beginning of every line. By context, those prefixes are organizing the page into sections that are about a) the project in general and the fact that Fedora is open source b) why Fedora is a leader in the Linux distribution market c) how people can contribute to the Fedora project This may not be entirely obvious to newcomers, especially people who are so new to the Linux community that the fact that they can contribute to it is a new idea. So, perhaps I am considering adding a few sentences about how anyone can contribute to the project, and perhaps brief paragraph to explain that there are many Linux distributions but we feel that Fedora is one of the best for the reasons that follow. Given that, I am thinking that it may be sensible to remove the "Freedom:" prefix from the few places where it is used. Yes, it is one of the three words that is used to describe Fedora, but "Infinity" and "Voice" are not being used as heading prefixes either. Comments, anyone? I would love to tackle this today or at least during this nice long weekend. I have some time and the weather is such that staying indoors and writing would be a fine thing to do. Debbie -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: GnuPG v1.4.1 (GNU/Linux) Comment: Using GnuPG with Fedora - http://enigmail.mozdev.org iD8DBQFD914tFsydcHPNKWkRArhIAKCDnXl2WH+hNjEUn2vlip9TVvsRjwCghQIb 7RrvL6YtD6t4U666xdpKAG0= =6Nhd -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- From stuart at elsn.org Sat Feb 18 18:42:00 2006 From: stuart at elsn.org (Stuart Ellis) Date: Sat, 18 Feb 2006 18:42:00 +0000 Subject: Possible edits to the Overview wiki page In-Reply-To: <43F75E2E.1090106@ddeutsch.org> References: <43F75E2E.1090106@ddeutsch.org> Message-ID: <1140288120.3146.29.camel@localhost.localdomain> On Sat, 2006-02-18 at 12:49 -0500, Debra Deutsch wrote: > -----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- > Hash: SHA1 > > Folks, > > I have been staring at the Overview wiki page. It is the very first > page link in the project FAQ. I am thinking of making some changes to > make it more helpful and understandable to people who are very new to > the open source community. While I can see who has subscribed to the > page, I can't tell who owns it. (I thought page info would tell me > that.) So, I am posting here to see what people think about the > possible edits. It was actually owned by the Marketing project, and the content was a set of talking points - it may now serve a slightly different function. The pages on the Wiki that are attached to a particular subproject have Category[Project] at the bottom of the page. Probably the best thing to do is enquire on the Websites list about the current situation: https://www.redhat.com/mailman/listinfo/fedora-websites-list Generally, you can work on a new version of a page without editing the original by creating a link like [:DebraDeutsch/Prototypes/Overview: Prototype of Overview] on your own Wiki homepage, and then copying the content from the original page to your new Prototypes/Overview page for development. Content can then simply be copied back to the original as necessary. -- Stuart Ellis stuart at elsn.org Fedora Documentation Project: http://fedora.redhat.com/projects/docs/ GPG key ID: 7098ABEA GPG key fingerprint: 68B0 E291 FB19 C845 E60E 9569 292E E365 7098 ABEA -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: signature.asc Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 191 bytes Desc: This is a digitally signed message part URL: From stickster at gmail.com Sat Feb 18 19:00:08 2006 From: stickster at gmail.com (Paul W. Frields) Date: Sat, 18 Feb 2006 14:00:08 -0500 Subject: Relicensing Message-ID: <1140289208.15034.7.camel@localhost.localdomain> In relicensing documentation, how do we document relicensing from authors other than ourselves? For example, I am the sole author of the mirror-tutorial, so that's a fait accompli. But I'm a contributing author of the jargon-buster, and at least one of the other folks there is no longer active in the FDP. As far as I know, it's not possible to sign away a copyright, so I'd make the following suggestion: An/the active author or editor should contact all contributing authors, notify each of the proposed licensing change, including links to pertinent documentation on the Wiki. Ask each to reply ASAP to fedora-docs-list at redhat.com with a PGP/GPG-signed message approving the change. If the list does not receive any word back from the authors, we may have to proceed as on the Wiki -- in other words, removing that author's contributions as shown in change history (CVS for us). Any other suggestions or strategies? -- Paul W. Frields, RHCE http://paul.frields.org/ gpg fingerprint: 3DA6 A0AC 6D58 FEC4 0233 5906 ACDB C937 BD11 3717 Fedora Documentation Project: http://fedora.redhat.com/projects/docs/ -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: signature.asc Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 189 bytes Desc: This is a digitally signed message part URL: From stuart at elsn.org Sat Feb 18 19:06:55 2006 From: stuart at elsn.org (Stuart Ellis) Date: Sat, 18 Feb 2006 19:06:55 +0000 Subject: install-guide/po zh_CN.po,1.1,1.2 In-Reply-To: <76e72f800602180646k15cafc91x@mail.gmail.com> References: <200602181011.k1IABnYv019516@cvs-int.fedora.redhat.com> <76e72f800602180215g58ede1cbm@mail.gmail.com> <1140272868.3146.4.camel@localhost.localdomain> <76e72f800602180646k15cafc91x@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <1140289615.3146.48.camel@localhost.localdomain> On Sat, 2006-02-18 at 22:46 +0800, Yuan Yijun wrote: > 2006/2/18, Stuart Ellis : > > > > > > I'm not using "make po-zh_CN" to get the po files. Instead I have to > > > use Andrew's scripts, that is to replace &ENTITIES with &ENTITIES > > > before running xml2po. Could this be fixed or I missed something? > > > > Is this a general issue with using xml2po on documents, or is there a > > specific issue with the install-guide files (that I should fix) ? > > > > > For yum-software-management, "make po-zh_CN" works. I cannot run this > against other docs so I havn't test them. > > > -- > bbbush ^_^ That make target doesn't work for me: "nothing to do", but I may have missed something. Here's what I've done so far: I've checked out fresh copies of both modules from CVS, and looked at the entity declarations etc. The rpm-info and main XML file in en/ for each also pass xmllint. Both documents build OK for html-en and fail for html-zh_CN, with a missing string for the install-guide, and an XML validation problem for yum-software-management. There was a typo in the DOCTYPE for yum-software-management.xml, which I've fixed, but that appears not have affected anything. -- Stuart Ellis stuart at elsn.org Fedora Documentation Project: http://fedora.redhat.com/projects/docs/ GPG key ID: 7098ABEA GPG key fingerprint: 68B0 E291 FB19 C845 E60E 9569 292E E365 7098 ABEA -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: signature.asc Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 191 bytes Desc: This is a digitally signed message part URL: From nman64 at n-man.com Sun Feb 19 06:59:35 2006 From: nman64 at n-man.com (Patrick Barnes) Date: Sun, 19 Feb 2006 00:59:35 -0600 Subject: Relicensing In-Reply-To: <1140289208.15034.7.camel@localhost.localdomain> References: <1140289208.15034.7.camel@localhost.localdomain> Message-ID: <200602190059.38176.nman64@n-man.com> On Saturday 18 February 2006 13:00, Paul W. Frields wrote: > In relicensing documentation, how do we document relicensing from > authors other than ourselves? For example, I am the sole author of the > mirror-tutorial, so that's a fait accompli. But I'm a contributing > author of the jargon-buster, and at least one of the other folks there > is no longer active in the FDP. As far as I know, it's not possible to > sign away a copyright, so I'd make the following suggestion: > > An/the active author or editor should contact all contributing authors, > notify each of the proposed licensing change, including links to > pertinent documentation on the Wiki. Ask each to reply ASAP to > fedora-docs-list at redhat.com with a PGP/GPG-signed message approving the > change. If the list does not receive any word back from the authors, we > may have to proceed as on the Wiki -- in other words, removing that > author's contributions as shown in change history (CVS for us). > > Any other suggestions or strategies? Didn't the past authors either work for Red Hat or complete the CLA? In the U.S., copyright assignment ("to sign away a copyright") is allowed, and that's what the CLA relies upon, so if either of the above conditions are met, we can apply a license without contacting those prior contributors. -- Patrick "The N-Man" Barnes nman64 at n-man.com http://www.n-man.com/ Have I been helpful? Rate my assistance! http://rate.affero.net/nman64/ -- -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 189 bytes Desc: not available URL: From nman64 at n-man.com Sun Feb 19 07:03:18 2006 From: nman64 at n-man.com (Patrick Barnes) Date: Sun, 19 Feb 2006 01:03:18 -0600 Subject: Possible edits to the Overview wiki page In-Reply-To: <1140288120.3146.29.camel@localhost.localdomain> References: <43F75E2E.1090106@ddeutsch.org> <1140288120.3146.29.camel@localhost.localdomain> Message-ID: <200602190103.21763.nman64@n-man.com> On Saturday 18 February 2006 12:42, Stuart Ellis wrote: > On Sat, 2006-02-18 at 12:49 -0500, Debra Deutsch wrote: > > -----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- > > Hash: SHA1 > > > > Folks, > > > > I have been staring at the Overview wiki page. It is the very first > > page link in the project FAQ. I am thinking of making some changes to > > make it more helpful and understandable to people who are very new to > > the open source community. While I can see who has subscribed to the > > page, I can't tell who owns it. (I thought page info would tell me > > that.) So, I am posting here to see what people think about the > > possible edits. > > It was actually owned by the Marketing project, and the content was a > set of talking points - it may now serve a slightly different function. > The pages on the Wiki that are attached to a particular subproject have > Category[Project] at the bottom of the page. Actually, this page was never the "Talking Points" page. It was originally created by Rahul Sundaram and myself. Later, the talking points were integrated into this page since they are so similar in purpose. > > Probably the best thing to do is enquire on the Websites list about the > current situation: > > https://www.redhat.com/mailman/listinfo/fedora-websites-list > > Generally, you can work on a new version of a page without editing the > original by creating a link like [:DebraDeutsch/Prototypes/Overview: > Prototype of Overview] on your own Wiki homepage, and then copying the > content from the original page to your new Prototypes/Overview page for > development. Content can then simply be copied back to the original as > necessary. I noticed the new prototype page that was created following this message. When it is ready, a short email to fedora-websites-list will let us know it needs review. :-) -- Patrick "The N-Man" Barnes nman64 at n-man.com http://www.n-man.com/ Have I been helpful? Rate my assistance! http://rate.affero.net/nman64/ -- -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 189 bytes Desc: not available URL: From stuart at elsn.org Sun Feb 19 13:45:53 2006 From: stuart at elsn.org (Stuart Ellis) Date: Sun, 19 Feb 2006 13:45:53 +0000 Subject: Possible edits to the Overview wiki page In-Reply-To: <200602190103.21763.nman64@n-man.com> References: <43F75E2E.1090106@ddeutsch.org> <1140288120.3146.29.camel@localhost.localdomain> <200602190103.21763.nman64@n-man.com> Message-ID: <1140356753.3050.9.camel@localhost.localdomain> On Sun, 2006-02-19 at 01:03 -0600, Patrick Barnes wrote: > On Saturday 18 February 2006 12:42, Stuart Ellis wrote: > > On Sat, 2006-02-18 at 12:49 -0500, Debra Deutsch wrote: > > > -----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- > > > Hash: SHA1 > > > > > > Folks, > > > > > > I have been staring at the Overview wiki page. It is the very first > > > page link in the project FAQ. I am thinking of making some changes to > > > make it more helpful and understandable to people who are very new to > > > the open source community. While I can see who has subscribed to the > > > page, I can't tell who owns it. (I thought page info would tell me > > > that.) So, I am posting here to see what people think about the > > > possible edits. > > > > It was actually owned by the Marketing project, and the content was a > > set of talking points - it may now serve a slightly different function. > > The pages on the Wiki that are attached to a particular subproject have > > Category[Project] at the bottom of the page. > > Actually, this page was never the "Talking Points" page. It was originally > created by Rahul Sundaram and myself. Later, the talking points were > integrated into this page since they are so similar in purpose. > OK, thanks for the correction - I recognised the content but wasn't sure about the page itself. General question arising from this: Now that the Ambassadors and Websites initiatives exist, is "CategoryMarketing" still useful, or should pages be recategorised ? -- Stuart Ellis stuart at elsn.org Fedora Documentation Project: http://fedora.redhat.com/projects/docs/ GPG key ID: 7098ABEA GPG key fingerprint: 68B0 E291 FB19 C845 E60E 9569 292E E365 7098 ABEA -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: signature.asc Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 191 bytes Desc: This is a digitally signed message part URL: From stickster at gmail.com Sun Feb 19 15:28:56 2006 From: stickster at gmail.com (Paul W. Frields) Date: Sun, 19 Feb 2006 10:28:56 -0500 Subject: Relicensing In-Reply-To: <200602190059.38176.nman64@n-man.com> References: <1140289208.15034.7.camel@localhost.localdomain> <200602190059.38176.nman64@n-man.com> Message-ID: <1140362936.18178.0.camel@localhost.localdomain> On Sun, 2006-02-19 at 00:59 -0600, Patrick Barnes wrote: > On Saturday 18 February 2006 13:00, Paul W. Frields wrote: > > In relicensing documentation, how do we document relicensing from > > authors other than ourselves? For example, I am the sole author of the > > mirror-tutorial, so that's a fait accompli. But I'm a contributing > > author of the jargon-buster, and at least one of the other folks there > > is no longer active in the FDP. As far as I know, it's not possible to > > sign away a copyright, so I'd make the following suggestion: > > > > An/the active author or editor should contact all contributing authors, > > notify each of the proposed licensing change, including links to > > pertinent documentation on the Wiki. Ask each to reply ASAP to > > fedora-docs-list at redhat.com with a PGP/GPG-signed message approving the > > change. If the list does not receive any word back from the authors, we > > may have to proceed as on the Wiki -- in other words, removing that > > author's contributions as shown in change history (CVS for us). > > > > Any other suggestions or strategies? > > Didn't the past authors either work for Red Hat or complete the CLA? In the > U.S., copyright assignment ("to sign away a copyright") is allowed, and > that's what the CLA relies upon, so if either of the above conditions are > met, we can apply a license without contacting those prior contributors. Oops, you're right. I've been buried in wiki and had it on the brain. Of course, j-b was composed in CVS, so yes, it should be good to go then. Thanks for the reminder. -- Paul W. Frields, RHCE http://paul.frields.org/ gpg fingerprint: 3DA6 A0AC 6D58 FEC4 0233 5906 ACDB C937 BD11 3717 Fedora Documentation Project: http://fedora.redhat.com/projects/docs/ -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: signature.asc Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 191 bytes Desc: This is a digitally signed message part URL: From kwade at redhat.com Sun Feb 19 15:32:28 2006 From: kwade at redhat.com (Karsten Wade) Date: Sun, 19 Feb 2006 07:32:28 -0800 Subject: Relicensing In-Reply-To: <1140289208.15034.7.camel@localhost.localdomain> References: <1140289208.15034.7.camel@localhost.localdomain> Message-ID: <1140363148.14469.103.camel@erato.phig.org> On Sat, 2006-02-18 at 14:00 -0500, Paul W. Frields wrote: > In relicensing documentation, how do we document relicensing from > authors other than ourselves? For example, I am the sole author of the > mirror-tutorial, so that's a fait accompli. But I'm a contributing > author of the jargon-buster, and at least one of the other folks there > is no longer active in the FDP. I thought he'd assigned copyright to Red Hat when he made the document? If you check throughout the CVS history, see if the (c) Red Hat was included with the original. That might solve only your problem, but it may be the only one we have. :) Still, let's proceed with your idea, because it's the Right, Best Thing. In cases where we can't reach the copyright holder, we'll see what needs to be done from there. > As far as I know, it's not possible to > sign away a copyright, so I'd make the following suggestion: > > An/the active author or editor should contact all contributing authors, > notify each of the proposed licensing change, including links to > pertinent documentation on the Wiki. Ask each to reply ASAP to > fedora-docs-list at redhat.com with a PGP/GPG-signed message approving the > change. If the list does not receive any word back from the authors, we > may have to proceed as on the Wiki -- in other words, removing that > author's contributions as shown in change history (CVS for us). Seems like the right idea to me. It dovetails into what else we are doing. - Karsten -- Karsten Wade, RHCE * Sr. Tech Writer * http://people.redhat.com/kwade/ gpg fingerprint: 2680 DBFD D968 3141 0115 5F1B D992 0E06 AD0E 0C41 Content Services Fedora Documentation Project http://www.redhat.com/docs http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/DocsProject -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: signature.asc Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 189 bytes Desc: This is a digitally signed message part URL: From stickster at gmail.com Sun Feb 19 16:27:53 2006 From: stickster at gmail.com (Paul W. Frields) Date: Sun, 19 Feb 2006 11:27:53 -0500 Subject: Relicensing of Fedora Jargon Buster Message-ID: <1140366473.18178.31.camel@localhost.localdomain> Good day Dave, I hope this email finds you doing well. I am writing to you because the Fedora Documentation Project is working on a relicensing of our materials through the Open Publication License v1.0[1]. This licensing is to cover all the documentation we've produced, as well as the Fedora Project Wiki[2] and new contributions from other entities. We're very excited about this move, since the OPL is a less restrictive license than the GNU FDL, and further it will give us an opportunity to collaborate with a wider community of content authors[3]. Therefore, I'm writing to you to have your approval to relicense the Jargon Buster, which, although it has continued to evolve over the past year or so, is still based on your original contribution. Any relicensing depends upon the approval of all the authors. Tammy Fox and I have both contributed to the document over the last year or so, and our contributions are covered by a licensing agreement. Your work on the Jargon Buster predates our use of this licensing agreement, thus this email. Since I began maintaining that document, a number of users have contributed useful suggestions, and more importantly, they've found it very useful. Your approval of the new license will help keep this document vital and available to the Fedora community. If you agree to relicense (or dual-license) this work under to OPL, all you need to do is respond to this email, preferably with a PGP/GPG-signed email, which would authenticate your approval. In case you're no longer subscribed to fedora-docs-list at redhat.com, you can simply respond to me if you prefer. We are trying to complete any CVS (re-)licensing by 22 February[4], so if you're able to respond by then, it would be greatly appreciated. Thank you very much for your consideration and your contributions, and continued best wishes. = = = [1] http://www.opencontent.org/openpub/ [2] http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/ [3] http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/DocsProject/Licensing/FAQ [4] http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/DocsProject/Licensing/Schedule -- Paul W. Frields, RHCE http://paul.frields.org/ gpg fingerprint: 3DA6 A0AC 6D58 FEC4 0233 5906 ACDB C937 BD11 3717 Fedora Documentation Project: http://fedora.redhat.com/projects/docs/ -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: signature.asc Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 191 bytes Desc: This is a digitally signed message part URL: From nman64 at n-man.com Sun Feb 19 19:39:13 2006 From: nman64 at n-man.com (Patrick Barnes) Date: Sun, 19 Feb 2006 13:39:13 -0600 Subject: [ANN] Fedora Project Wiki Policy Change (Update) In-Reply-To: <200602161806.29490.nman64@n-man.com> References: <200602161806.29490.nman64@n-man.com> Message-ID: <200602191339.15904.nman64@n-man.com> We have completed the shift to our new wiki policy. The Contributor License Agreement is now required for wiki editing privileges. The EditGroup[1] is no longer frozen. EditGroup members who have already completed the CLA do not need to do anything. They should be able to continue editing normally. All former EditGroup members who have not completed the CLA have been moved to the new UnlicensedGroup[2] page. They will be unable to edit the wiki until they have completed the CLA and have removed themselves from the UnlicensedGroup. Once they have done so, they can contact someone currently on the EditGroup to get themselves added again. More details about these changes can be found on the WikiLicenseTalk[3] page. As always, wiki editing details can be found on the WikiEditing[4] page. [1] http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/EditGroup [2] http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/UnlicensedGroup [3] http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/WikiLicenseTalk [4] http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/WikiEditing -- Patrick "The N-Man" Barnes nman64 at n-man.com http://www.n-man.com/ Have I been helpful? Rate my assistance! http://rate.affero.net/nman64/ -- -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 189 bytes Desc: not available URL: From cody.dehaan at gmail.com Mon Feb 20 00:42:12 2006 From: cody.dehaan at gmail.com (Cody DeHaan) Date: Sun, 19 Feb 2006 18:42:12 -0600 Subject: New GPG Key Message-ID: <5c70f4650602191642qe68cae6k8488ab0072a942ce@mail.gmail.com> As a result of some technical problems, I have lost my original GPG key. As a result, I have created a new key, which I have uploaded to the pgp.mit.edu server. Key ID: A87EAE24 Fingerprint: 21DE 1297 62BA 69B6 4534 B997 F221 2E79 A87E AE24 If you will notice, my old key is listed with an e-mail address of "Cody.DeHaan at gmail.com". My new key is all lowercase: "cody.dehaan at gmail.com" Obviously, the new key also has a newer creation date. I apologize for the inconvenience. Regards, Cody DeHaan -- Cody DeHaan Fedora Documentation Project GPG: 21DE 1297 62BA 69B6 4534 B997 F221 2E79 A87E AE24 From kwade at redhat.com Mon Feb 20 17:44:58 2006 From: kwade at redhat.com (Karsten Wade) Date: Mon, 20 Feb 2006 09:44:58 -0800 Subject: goals for a year's tenure Message-ID: <1140457498.14469.208.camel@erato.phig.org> It's time to set the goals for my year's tenure as Fedora Documentation Project Management Committee (PMC) chair. What do you think is important for this project? What should my goals and the project's goals be for the year? From the beginning, I've agreed with Greg DeKoenigsberg that our role as Red Hat kickstarters of Fedora was to: i) Make things rock and roll; ii) GTF out of the way and let it roll! I've been witnessing this with Fedora Extras, and it is impressive. Nine months ago I set myself a personal goal of eighteen months to do just that in the Docs Project -- make things rock, then get out of the way. Things being what they be, I'm upping to 21 months total, so February of 2007. ;-D Community leaders abound, but the FC 6 development cycle requires me to keep the momentum going as someone who can shake-and-stir inside of Red Hat. That was the core of my original plan, to get the project out from Red Hat's wing. Seeing through FC 6 development and mid-way into FC 7 should be just about the right timing for me to retire, I reckon. Therefore, I'm working on my goals and aspirations for the next year: http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/KarstenWade/FDPChair/Goals2006 The goals have some metrics assigned to them. That's how we know they are done, when the metrics are met or exceeded. But they are a starting point, what I think might be important. So, back to the top ... What do you think the project's goals should be for the next year? How about my goals as the chair/leader? I'm figuring it is our responsibility to set our goals and tell the Fedora Foundation board about them. They may have some additional goals for us, and we may in turn have some to ask of them. Ideally, our goals should be a subset of their goals, which isn't that hard to do. :) - Karsten -- Karsten Wade, RHCE * Sr. Tech Writer * http://people.redhat.com/kwade/ gpg fingerprint: 2680 DBFD D968 3141 0115 5F1B D992 0E06 AD0E 0C41 Content Services Fedora Documentation Project http://www.redhat.com/docs http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/DocsProject -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: signature.asc Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 189 bytes Desc: This is a digitally signed message part URL: From kwade at redhat.com Mon Feb 20 19:08:58 2006 From: kwade at redhat.com (Karsten Wade) Date: Mon, 20 Feb 2006 11:08:58 -0800 Subject: changes to legal notice Message-ID: <1140462538.14469.223.camel@erato.phig.org> I've prepared and verified the following changes to our legal notice, which I am going to put in CVS. I have one question first: Do we use any Red Hat trademarks in Fedora documentation? I think we do, we at least refer to Red Hat on occasion. Just want to be sure I'm not missing something obvious. This file is docs-common/common/legalnotice-content-en.xml, now tagged "docs-common-new-canonical-legal-notice-using-OPL". We'll begin actual usage of this legal notice with each document when we have relicensing sign-off from each contributor. ## begin new legal notice in entirety Copyright (c) 2006 by Fedora Foundation and others. This material may be distributed only subject to the terms and conditions set forth in the Open Publication License, v1.0, available at http://www.opencontent.org/openpub/. Garrett LeSage created the admonition graphics (note, tip, important, caution, and warning). Tommy Reynolds Tommy.Reynolds at MegaCoder.com created the callout graphics. They all may be freely redistributed with documentation produced for the Fedora Project. FEDORA, FEDORA PROJECT, and the Fedora Logo are trademarks of Red Hat, Inc., are registered or pending registration in the U.S. and other countries, and are used here under license to the Fedora Foundation. Red Hat and the Red Hat "Shadow Man" logo are registered trademarks of Red Hat, Inc. in the United States and other countries. All other trademarks and copyrights referred to are the property of their respective owners. Documentation, as with software itself, may be subject to export control. Read about Fedora Project export controls at http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Legal/Export ## end new legal notice -- Karsten Wade, RHCE * Sr. Tech Writer * http://people.redhat.com/kwade/ gpg fingerprint: 2680 DBFD D968 3141 0115 5F1B D992 0E06 AD0E 0C41 Content Services Fedora Documentation Project http://www.redhat.com/docs http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/DocsProject -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: signature.asc Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 189 bytes Desc: This is a digitally signed message part URL: From stuart at elsn.org Mon Feb 20 21:01:03 2006 From: stuart at elsn.org (Stuart Ellis) Date: Mon, 20 Feb 2006 21:01:03 +0000 Subject: changes to legal notice In-Reply-To: <1140462538.14469.223.camel@erato.phig.org> References: <1140462538.14469.223.camel@erato.phig.org> Message-ID: <1140469263.3089.10.camel@localhost.localdomain> On Mon, 2006-02-20 at 11:08 -0800, Karsten Wade wrote: > I've prepared and verified the following changes to our legal notice, > which I am going to put in CVS. I have one question first: > > Do we use any Red Hat trademarks in Fedora documentation? > > I think we do, we at least refer to Red Hat on occasion. Just want to > be sure I'm not missing something obvious. > Some of the technologies developed by Red Hat may have trademarked names, e.g. "RPM". I couldn't find a complete list of RH trademarks, just various boilerplates that say things like: "Red Hat, the Red Hat "Shadow Man" logo, RPM, and the RPM logo are trademarks or registered trademarks of Red Hat, Inc. in the United States and other countries." -- Stuart Ellis stuart at elsn.org Fedora Documentation Project: http://fedora.redhat.com/projects/docs/ GPG key ID: 7098ABEA GPG key fingerprint: 68B0 E291 FB19 C845 E60E 9569 292E E365 7098 ABEA -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: signature.asc Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 191 bytes Desc: This is a digitally signed message part URL: From stuart at elsn.org Wed Feb 22 01:02:00 2006 From: stuart at elsn.org (Stuart Ellis) Date: Wed, 22 Feb 2006 01:02:00 +0000 Subject: Minutes of FDSCo Meeting 21 February 2006 Message-ID: <1140570120.3063.21.camel@localhost.localdomain> Attending Members: ------------------ Karsten Wade (quaid) Tommy Reynolds (megacoder) Gavin Henry (ghenry) Stuart Ellis (elliss) Also Participating: ------------------- Bob Jensen (StillBob) Schedule of Tasks: ------------------ http://www.fedoraproject.org/wiki/DocsProject/FedoraDocsSchedule Highlights: ----------- * Karsten: Translation is not yet completely integrated with the main build process - PO files may need to be created with the existing translation tools. Aman Alam will be testing the translation process. * Tommy: The DOCTYPE declaration in the current files provides English language entities. The method of substituting entities will need to be modified to enable entities to be applied correctly for other languages. Full IRC Log: ------------- https://www.redhat.com/archives/fedora-dsco-list/2006-February/msg00013.html -- Stuart Ellis stuart at elsn.org Fedora Documentation Project: http://fedora.redhat.com/projects/docs/ GPG key ID: 7098ABEA GPG key fingerprint: 68B0 E291 FB19 C845 E60E 9569 292E E365 7098 ABEA -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: signature.asc Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 191 bytes Desc: This is a digitally signed message part URL: From Tommy.Reynolds at MegaCoder.com Wed Feb 22 04:10:46 2006 From: Tommy.Reynolds at MegaCoder.com (Tommy Reynolds) Date: Tue, 21 Feb 2006 22:10:46 -0600 Subject: release-notes/zh_CN ArchSpecific-zh_CN.xml, 1.1, et. al. In-Reply-To: <200602220351.k1M3ph7w002751@cvs-int.fedora.redhat.com> References: <200602220351.k1M3ph7w002751@cvs-int.fedora.redhat.com> Message-ID: <20060221221046.16c53d42.Tommy.Reynolds@MegaCoder.com> Uttered "Yuan Yijun" (bbbush) , spake thus: > Removed Files: > Log Message: > hope I don't have to re-add them again Me, too. Have you had any progress about the language-specific entities you had mentioned earlier? If nothing has been done, I have some ideas I can try, but I don't want to duplicate any effort. Cheers -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 191 bytes Desc: not available URL: From bbbush.yuan at gmail.com Wed Feb 22 05:20:25 2006 From: bbbush.yuan at gmail.com (Yuan Yijun) Date: Wed, 22 Feb 2006 13:20:25 +0800 Subject: release-notes/zh_CN ArchSpecific-zh_CN.xml, 1.1, et. al. In-Reply-To: <20060221221046.16c53d42.Tommy.Reynolds@MegaCoder.com> References: <200602220351.k1M3ph7w002751@cvs-int.fedora.redhat.com> <20060221221046.16c53d42.Tommy.Reynolds@MegaCoder.com> Message-ID: <76e72f800602212120h7b0c30a5q@mail.gmail.com> 2006/2/22, Tommy Reynolds : > > Have you had any progress about the language-specific entities you had > mentioned earlier? If nothing has been done, I have some ideas I can > try, but I don't want to duplicate any effort. > No, I havn't touched my fedora for a long time. I'm using vmware on my working PC, hopefully to get a new laptop later next month :D -- bbbush ^_^ From bbbush.yuan at gmail.com Wed Feb 22 07:36:01 2006 From: bbbush.yuan at gmail.com (Yuan Yijun) Date: Wed, 22 Feb 2006 15:36:01 +0800 Subject: install-guide/po zh_CN.po,1.1,1.2 In-Reply-To: <1140272868.3146.4.camel@localhost.localdomain> References: <200602181011.k1IABnYv019516@cvs-int.fedora.redhat.com> <76e72f800602180215g58ede1cbm@mail.gmail.com> <1140272868.3146.4.camel@localhost.localdomain> Message-ID: <76e72f800602212336h3a74d1bn@mail.gmail.com> 2006/2/18, Stuart Ellis : > > > > I'm not using "make po-zh_CN" to get the po files. Instead I have to > > use Andrew's scripts, that is to replace &ENTITIES with &ENTITIES > > before running xml2po. Could this be fixed or I missed something? > > Is this a general issue with using xml2po on documents, or is there a > specific issue with the install-guide files (that I should fix) ? > Now I can confirm that this is a "make pot" issue and only IG is affected. "make pot" would only extract 52 messages, but there are far more. Both relnotes and yum-software-management are fine. I don't know how to fix it. -- bbbush ^_^ From Tommy.Reynolds at MegaCoder.com Wed Feb 22 11:27:03 2006 From: Tommy.Reynolds at MegaCoder.com (Tommy Reynolds) Date: Wed, 22 Feb 2006 05:27:03 -0600 Subject: docs-common Makefile.common,1.66,1.67 In-Reply-To: <200602221100.k1MB0oGk020751@cvs-int.fedora.redhat.com> References: <200602221100.k1MB0oGk020751@cvs-int.fedora.redhat.com> Message-ID: <20060222052703.e87c7225.Tommy.Reynolds@MegaCoder.com> Uttered "Tommy Reynolds" (jtr) , spake thus: > Modified Files: > Makefile.common > Log Message: > Revert prior changes. Document template purpose. > -PO2XML =xml2po > +PO2XML =po2xml > ######################################################################### > +# Define a template to generate the locale-specific XML files given the > +# original ${PRI_LANG} file and an updated po/${LANG}.po file. > define XML_template > $(patsubst ${PRI_LANG}/%,${1}/%,${2}):: ${2} po/${1}.po ${1} > - ${PO2XML} -p po/${1}.po ${2} >$$@ > + ${PO2XML} ${2} po/${1}.po >$$@ > endef My sincere apologies for not describing my (mis)understanding of the translation process earlier. Below shows how I envisioned this process working. The file maintenance steps, at least, seem to be very automated; the translator need concentrate on editing either the .PO or .POT file and a single make(1) target: make html-${LANG} or make xml-${LANG}, at their preference. The steps involved in the .POT / .PO / .XML file maintenance are: 1) Produce original XML in a ${PRI_LANG} subdirectory. 2) The target "make pot" can be used to generate a single .POT file from all of the ${PRI_LANG} XML files. The "make pot" gets run automatically when a ${PRI_LANG} file is changed and one of the following steps are used. The resulting file is the po/${DOCBASE}.pot file. 3) The target "make po" generates an updated po/${LANG}.po file whenever the .POT changes. Translation entries from the .POT file are merged into the .PO file. The "make pot" rule is run first if necessary. 4) The target "make xml-${LANG}" generates all the translated XML files into the "${LANG}/" directory. This is done by applying the .PO files against the ${PRI_LANG} XML files using po2xml(1). The "make po" rule is run first if necessary. 5) The target "make html-${LANG}" renders the XML in ${LANG}/*.xml to produce translated HTML in a "${DOCBASE}-${LANG}/" folder. The "make xml-${LANG}" rule is run first if necessary. So, as I (mis)understand the process, the very first action a translator should take is to: a) Add the appropriate locale to the ${OTHERS} list; and b) "make po" c) Insert translated entries into either the .PO or .POT file; the .PO file serves as the translation archive and is preserved across builds but the .POT file is rewritten every time the matching XML file changes. d) "make xml-${LANG}" to view the applied XML translations. The target "make html-${LANG}" should work equally well. For later translation sessions, the translator repeats the steps: I) "make po" II) Insert translations into either the .PO or .POT file III) "make xml-${LANG}" or "make html-${LANG}" as desired. If this technique does not match the translator's expectations, we need to adapt the process. Cheers -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 191 bytes Desc: not available URL: From kwade at redhat.com Wed Feb 22 15:26:35 2006 From: kwade at redhat.com (Karsten Wade) Date: Wed, 22 Feb 2006 07:26:35 -0800 Subject: [ANN] Final FC5 release notes content freeze 24 Feb. 23:59 UTC Message-ID: <1140621995.8018.44.camel@erato.phig.org> We are taking a snapshot of the Wiki for conversion to XML this Friday 24 Feb. at almost-Midnight UTC. That's 64.5 hours from now. Beat Writers: Please get in your final, final, final release note changes to your beats. Beat Editors: Divide the pages amongst ourselves and edit, edit, edit. Yes, there is going to be a latest Web update taken on 08 March, but that _shall_not_ be in the ISO. We're going to need all weekend to be sure we give the translators something good on 27 Feb. We are intending to put the translatable .po files through the Web app at: http://i18n.redhat.com/cgi-bin/i18n-status cheers - Karsten -- Karsten Wade, RHCE * Sr. Tech Writer * http://people.redhat.com/kwade/ gpg fingerprint: 2680 DBFD D968 3141 0115 5F1B D992 0E06 AD0E 0C41 Content Services Fedora Documentation Project http://www.redhat.com/docs http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/DocsProject -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: signature.asc Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 189 bytes Desc: This is a digitally signed message part URL: From stuart at elsn.org Wed Feb 22 20:17:48 2006 From: stuart at elsn.org (Stuart Ellis) Date: Wed, 22 Feb 2006 20:17:48 +0000 Subject: install-guide/po zh_CN.po,1.1,1.2 In-Reply-To: <76e72f800602212321v1fd8cc89i@mail.gmail.com> References: <200602181011.k1IABnYv019516@cvs-int.fedora.redhat.com> <76e72f800602180215g58ede1cbm@mail.gmail.com> <1140272868.3146.4.camel@localhost.localdomain> <76e72f800602180646k15cafc91x@mail.gmail.com> <1140289615.3146.48.camel@localhost.localdomain> <76e72f800602212321v1fd8cc89i@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <1140639468.3089.15.camel@localhost.localdomain> On Wed, 2006-02-22 at 15:21 +0800, Yuan Yijun wrote: > Investigation Report > ====== > * install po2xml requires kdesdk which brings in a whole new KDE on my > little HDD. Yes, I found that too :(. > * touch en/* would force make po execution OK. > * po2xml always cries for missing strings if there is nested xml tags > I guess, but I'm not sure. xml2po in gnome-doc-utils works well. I > think we can remove po2xml from Makefile.common and fdp-functions Hopefully Paul or Tommy can chime in here - I don't really know enough about xml2po vs. po2xml to have an opinion. > * revdescription tag in zh_CN/fdp-info.xml is blank due to no > translations available. Modify xsl to use en descriptions. > * now relnotes/zh_CN can build > > > -- > bbbush ^_^ -- Stuart Ellis stuart at elsn.org Fedora Documentation Project: http://fedora.redhat.com/projects/docs/ GPG key ID: 7098ABEA GPG key fingerprint: 68B0 E291 FB19 C845 E60E 9569 292E E365 7098 ABEA -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: signature.asc Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 191 bytes Desc: This is a digitally signed message part URL: From Tommy.Reynolds at MegaCoder.com Wed Feb 22 20:29:50 2006 From: Tommy.Reynolds at MegaCoder.com (Tommy Reynolds) Date: Wed, 22 Feb 2006 14:29:50 -0600 Subject: install-guide/po zh_CN.po,1.1,1.2 In-Reply-To: <1140639468.3089.15.camel@localhost.localdomain> References: <200602181011.k1IABnYv019516@cvs-int.fedora.redhat.com> <76e72f800602180215g58ede1cbm@mail.gmail.com> <1140272868.3146.4.camel@localhost.localdomain> <76e72f800602180646k15cafc91x@mail.gmail.com> <1140289615.3146.48.camel@localhost.localdomain> <76e72f800602212321v1fd8cc89i@mail.gmail.com> <1140639468.3089.15.camel@localhost.localdomain> Message-ID: <20060222142950.72e23c89.Tommy.Reynolds@MegaCoder.com> Uttered Stuart Ellis , spake thus: > > * po2xml always cries for missing strings if there is nested xml tags > > I guess, but I'm not sure. xml2po in gnome-doc-utils works well. I > > think we can remove po2xml from Makefile.common and fdp-functions > Hopefully Paul or Tommy can chime in here - I don't really know enough > about xml2po vs. po2xml to have an opinion. Oops! Mea culpa. My fault. I'm sorry. Heck, I just used up my mistake for 1954! I saw the po2xml changes that were made and thought they were because the FDP translation process wasn't clear; after all, it wasn't documented anywhere. I totally missed that "xml2po" is bi-directional, and that "po2xml" is expendable. Let's get rid of it. I'll work on this ASAP. Cheers -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 191 bytes Desc: not available URL: From Tommy.Reynolds at MegaCoder.com Thu Feb 23 09:12:13 2006 From: Tommy.Reynolds at MegaCoder.com (Tommy Reynolds) Date: Thu, 23 Feb 2006 03:12:13 -0600 Subject: [RFC] Towards translatable entities Message-ID: <20060223031213.b05b7288.Tommy.Reynolds@MegaCoder.com> Hi Ya'll <<>> What follows is an approach to a thorny problem the translators are encountering. ALL DOCUMENT AUTHORS should read this too, because a small amount of re-editing will be necessary if this approach is adopted. I think it will be a one-line change to the "${PRI_LANG}/${DOCBASE}.xml" file. Currently, each document hard-codes the filename needed to include the FDP entities: %FEDORA-ENTITIES-EN; ]> In addition, several additional entities, such as "&DOCDATE;", must be manually edited each time the document is rebuilt. This technique of using entities makes effective translations difficult because filename paths and entities are outside the scope of the text addressed by the translation tools. Thus, it is not currently possible to have completely automated I18N support. By re-using the same tools and techniques already in place for the document body translation, it should be possible to: 1) Place all entity definitions for a single locale into an XML file described by a custom DTD. Utilize .POT and .PO files, in conjunction with an XSL stylesheet, to automatically derive non-English, aka ${OTHERS}, XML files. Just like we can do for the document body files. 2) Instead of referencing a locale-specific href in the declaration, reference a fixed filename "entities.ent" that will actually be a symbolic link (or an equivalent method) to the translated entity file produced above. The building system "Makefile.common" should be able to do this transparently to document authors. 3) Dynamic entities like "&DOCDATE;" can easily be implemented by "Makefile.common" and XSL stylesheet surgery. This will eliminate the in-document entity definitions in favor of entities that we can derive from the "rpm-info.xml" file. So far, I've sketched out a preliminary framework. The DTD, a sample entity definition XML file, an XSL stylesheet and a Makefile are available at my ftp://ftp.megacoder.com/pub/entities/ site. Please take a look at this proof-of-concept and post your comments and suggestions. Cheers -- I'm already an anomaly, I shall soon be an anachronism, and I have every intention of dying an abuse! -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 191 bytes Desc: not available URL: From kwade at redhat.com Thu Feb 23 18:27:43 2006 From: kwade at redhat.com (Karsten Wade) Date: Thu, 23 Feb 2006 10:27:43 -0800 Subject: new Editor-in-Chief for release notes Message-ID: <1140719263.8018.103.camel@erato.phig.org> I'm quite pleased to inform you that Robert 'Bob' Jensen is taking over the Editor-in-Chief role for the release notes. For the rest of FC5 release, Bob and I are working closely together on everything from language edits, Wiki2XML, and publication. The goal is for Bob to be running things by FC6 test1. Here are some of the tasks of the EiC: * Watches all commits to Docs/Beats * Edits content for style, clarity, and markup consistency * Coordinates the beat writers (project management) - Updating release note schedules[1] - Scheduling announcing and enforcing - Recruiting help * Ensures content goes: Wiki -> XML -> PO/POT -> XML -> HTML/TXT -> {ISO, Website} * Looks for improvements to the release notes - Automation - Process changes - Tool changes Thanks - Karsten [1] http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/DocsProject/Schedule -- Karsten Wade, RHCE * Sr. Tech Writer * http://people.redhat.com/kwade/ gpg fingerprint: 2680 DBFD D968 3141 0115 5F1B D992 0E06 AD0E 0C41 Content Services Fedora Documentation Project http://www.redhat.com/docs http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/DocsProject -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: signature.asc Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 189 bytes Desc: This is a digitally signed message part URL: From docs-list at fedoralinks.org Thu Feb 23 19:58:30 2006 From: docs-list at fedoralinks.org (Robert 'Bob' Jensen) Date: Thu, 23 Feb 2006 13:58:30 -0600 Subject: new Editor-in-Chief for release notes In-Reply-To: <1140719263.8018.103.camel@erato.phig.org> References: <1140719263.8018.103.camel@erato.phig.org> Message-ID: <1140724710.13412.12.camel@cbcclt02.cbcchome.cbccgroup.com> On Thu, 2006-02-23 at 10:27 -0800, Karsten Wade wrote: > I'm quite pleased to inform you that Robert 'Bob' Jensen is taking over > the Editor-in-Chief role for the release notes. > > For the rest of FC5 release, Bob and I are working closely together on > everything from language edits, Wiki2XML, and publication. The goal is > for Bob to be running things by FC6 test1. > > Here are some of the tasks of the EiC: > > * Watches all commits to Docs/Beats > * Edits content for style, clarity, and markup consistency > * Coordinates the beat writers (project management) > - Updating release note schedules[1] > - Scheduling announcing and enforcing > - Recruiting help > * Ensures content goes: > Wiki -> XML -> PO/POT -> XML -> HTML/TXT -> {ISO, Website} > * Looks for improvements to the release notes > - Automation > - Process changes > - Tool changes > > Thanks - Karsten > > [1] http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/DocsProject/Schedule > -- > fedora-docs-list mailing list > fedora-docs-list at redhat.com > To unsubscribe: > https://www.redhat.com/mailman/listinfo/fedora-docs-list I have to do all that??? Then forget it...LOL Glad to have a place to help out. I look forward to learning the processes and hopefully helping with other tasks as time and experience allows. -- Robert 'Bob' Jensen Fedora Documentation Projects -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: signature.asc Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 191 bytes Desc: This is a digitally signed message part URL: From kwade at redhat.com Thu Feb 23 22:38:32 2006 From: kwade at redhat.com (Karsten Wade) Date: Thu, 23 Feb 2006 14:38:32 -0800 Subject: freeing FOP In-Reply-To: <1140587159.1404.190.camel@tortoise.toronto.redhat.com> References: <1140587159.1404.190.camel@tortoise.toronto.redhat.com> Message-ID: <1140734312.8018.113.camel@erato.phig.org> On Wed, 2006-02-22 at 00:45 -0500, Thomas Fitzsimmons wrote: > Hi, > > I finished building FOP and its dependencies on the free Java stack. To > pare the dependency tree I built Batik without Rhino support. If such a > feature-limited Batik is acceptable in Fedora Extras then we'll only > need to add about five new packages, rather than the ~80 packages we'd > need for a Rhino-enabled Batik. Rhino is the Mozilla JavaScript interpreter, right? We don't have any need for that I know of. When someone else with such a need packages Rhino for Extras, I suppose we can add support back in. Tommy informed me that our main usage of Batik is for batik-rasterizer for SVG files. If batik-rasterizer works without Rhino, we're fine. > Batik 1.6 also has dependencies on com.sun classes in its JPEG- and > TIFF-encoding code. These dependencies have been removed in Batik CVS > but for now I've disabled JPEG- and TIFF- output in my test RPM. > > Unfortunately, FOP has two non-free dependencies, neither of which has a > free drop-in replacement. These are Jimi and JAI, both image-handling > frameworks. From the FOP error output it seems that JAI is the > preferred framework with Jimi providing a fallback. It may be possible > to provide a second fallback that uses the standard ImageIO framework > which is implemented in the free stack, but that will require upstream > changes. For now free FOP cannot handle images. Our images need is only for PNG support. That lets us output to screen and printed formats. Does it just strip out/ignore image calls in the FO? > To test my FOP RPM I ran build-hig-pdf.sh from the GNOME Human Interface > Guidelines CVS repository. I've attached a log of the console output > and the generated PDF. A GCJ bug is preventing the compilation of FOP's > hyphenation patterns which explains why FOP can't find them. I'll file > a bug for this shortly. > > Perhaps the documentation team can review the attached PDF? Shall I go > ahead and propose FOP and its dependencies for Fedora Extras inclusion, > even though it currently lacks image support? I'm wondering if that > would be a good way for the docs team to track my progress and offer > feedback. Obviously until the image support issues are resolved the > packages will have to be considered preview-quality. The attached PDF looks stellar, from a visual/format stand point. I didn't see any visual bugs in my comb through, and it was nice to see things such as URLs finally formatted well, such as, this is the link text [URI]. We can't really use it in production without image support, but I'm sure some of us would like to see how it handles our most difficult XML to PDF conversions. Thanks so much for working on this. Let us know how the packaging progresses, and I'll roust up a few folks who have been complaining about PDF output and give this to test with. :) - Karsten -- Karsten Wade, RHCE * Sr. Tech Writer * http://people.redhat.com/kwade/ gpg fingerprint: 2680 DBFD D968 3141 0115 5F1B D992 0E06 AD0E 0C41 Content Services Fedora Documentation Project http://www.redhat.com/docs http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/DocsProject -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: signature.asc Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 189 bytes Desc: This is a digitally signed message part URL: From stickster at gmail.com Fri Feb 24 00:50:15 2006 From: stickster at gmail.com (Paul W. Frields) Date: Thu, 23 Feb 2006 19:50:15 -0500 Subject: docs-common Makefile.common,1.68,1.69 In-Reply-To: <200602230145.k1N1ji4A025480@cvs-int.fedora.redhat.com> References: <200602230145.k1N1ji4A025480@cvs-int.fedora.redhat.com> Message-ID: <1140742215.3292.21.camel@localhost.localdomain> On Wed, 2006-02-22 at 20:45 -0500, Tommy Reynolds wrote: > Author: jtr > > Update of /cvs/docs/docs-common > In directory cvs-int.fedora.redhat.com:/tmp/cvs-serv25460 > > Modified Files: > Makefile.common > Log Message: > Use xml2po(1) for all XML=>PO=>XML conversions; drop dependancy on > the buggy po2xml(1) from the kdesdk. This allows translators to free > up potentially 82Mbyte or so of disk space as a bonus. Bless you, BLESS YOU. Now if we could only get someone to break "meinproc" free of kdeutils... /me thinks "Hmm, what a strange and awful lot of KDE lib dependencies for a console app. Mayhap this needs some exercise of GPL freedom." -- Paul W. Frields, RHCE http://paul.frields.org/ gpg fingerprint: 3DA6 A0AC 6D58 FEC4 0233 5906 ACDB C937 BD11 3717 Fedora Documentation Project: http://fedora.redhat.com/projects/docs/ -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: signature.asc Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 191 bytes Desc: This is a digitally signed message part URL: From Tommy.Reynolds at MegaCoder.com Fri Feb 24 03:13:39 2006 From: Tommy.Reynolds at MegaCoder.com (Tommy Reynolds) Date: Thu, 23 Feb 2006 21:13:39 -0600 Subject: docs-common Makefile.common,1.69,1.70 In-Reply-To: <200602240107.k1O17VcT016002@cvs-int.fedora.redhat.com> References: <200602240107.k1O17VcT016002@cvs-int.fedora.redhat.com> Message-ID: <20060223211339.e1c8be31.Tommy.Reynolds@MegaCoder.com> Uttered "Paul W. Frields" (pfrields) , spake thus: > Add another phony alias "help" for better across-the-project adherence > (q.v. Fedora Extras), plus it makes a weird kind of sense. > > -targets:: > +help targets:: > @printf ${TFMT} 'targets' 'Outputs target summaries' > @printf ${TFMT} 'text' 'Same as "txt" target' Good! I was going to just s/targets/help/ anyway. -- I'm already an anomaly, I shall soon be an anachronism, and I have every intention of dying an abuse! -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 191 bytes Desc: not available URL: From kwade at redhat.com Fri Feb 24 14:37:51 2006 From: kwade at redhat.com (Karsten Wade) Date: Fri, 24 Feb 2006 06:37:51 -0800 Subject: changes to legal notice In-Reply-To: <1140469263.3089.10.camel@localhost.localdomain> References: <1140462538.14469.223.camel@erato.phig.org> <1140469263.3089.10.camel@localhost.localdomain> Message-ID: <1140791871.8018.149.camel@erato.phig.org> On Mon, 2006-02-20 at 21:01 +0000, Stuart Ellis wrote: > Some of the technologies developed by Red Hat may have trademarked > names, e.g. "RPM". > > I couldn't find a complete list of RH trademarks, just various > boilerplates that say things like: > > "Red Hat, the Red Hat "Shadow Man" logo, RPM, and the RPM logo are > trademarks or registered trademarks of Red Hat, Inc. in the United > States and other countries." Ah, yes, thanks, I forgot about RPM. I left in the call about Red Hat trademarks, to make it clear. We used this on the latest release notes for FC5, minus Samba content until we can contact the writer or rewrite the section from scratch. - Karsten -- Karsten Wade, RHCE * Sr. Tech Writer * http://people.redhat.com/kwade/ gpg fingerprint: 2680 DBFD D968 3141 0115 5F1B D992 0E06 AD0E 0C41 Content Services Fedora Documentation Project http://www.redhat.com/docs http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/DocsProject -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: signature.asc Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 189 bytes Desc: This is a digitally signed message part URL: From docs-list at fedoralinks.org Fri Feb 24 16:14:54 2006 From: docs-list at fedoralinks.org (Robert 'Bob' Jensen) Date: Fri, 24 Feb 2006 10:14:54 -0600 Subject: [ANN] Final FC5 release notes content freeze 24 Feb. 23:59 UTC In-Reply-To: <1140621995.8018.44.camel@erato.phig.org> References: <1140621995.8018.44.camel@erato.phig.org> Message-ID: <1140797694.2659.5.camel@cbcclt02.cbcchome.cbccgroup.com> On Wed, 2006-02-22 at 07:26 -0800, Karsten Wade wrote: > We are taking a snapshot of the Wiki for conversion to XML this Friday > 24 Feb. at almost-Midnight UTC. > > That's 64.5 hours from now. > > Beat Writers: Please get in your final, final, final release note > changes to your beats. > > Beat Editors: Divide the pages amongst ourselves and edit, edit, edit. > > Yes, there is going to be a latest Web update taken on 08 March, but > that _shall_not_ be in the ISO. > > We're going to need all weekend to be sure we give the translators > something good on 27 Feb. We are intending to put the translatable .po > files through the Web app at: > > http://i18n.redhat.com/cgi-bin/i18n-status > > cheers - Karsten Freeze is now about 8 hours away. Beat Writers: Please take this chance to get any last minute changes, corrections and content in to the Wiki so it can be translated and included in the FC5 ISO images. Beat Editors: Please review the changes made. -- Robert 'Bob' Jensen Fedora Documentation Projects -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: signature.asc Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 191 bytes Desc: This is a digitally signed message part URL: From stickster at gmail.com Fri Feb 24 18:32:41 2006 From: stickster at gmail.com (Paul W. Frields) Date: Fri, 24 Feb 2006 13:32:41 -0500 Subject: [ANN] Final FC5 release notes content freeze 24 Feb. 23:59 UTC In-Reply-To: <1140797694.2659.5.camel@cbcclt02.cbcchome.cbccgroup.com> References: <1140621995.8018.44.camel@erato.phig.org> <1140797694.2659.5.camel@cbcclt02.cbcchome.cbccgroup.com> Message-ID: <1140805961.3254.3.camel@localhost.localdomain> On Fri, 2006-02-24 at 10:14 -0600, Robert 'Bob' Jensen wrote: > Freeze is now about 8 hours away. > > Beat Writers: Please take this chance to get any last minute changes, > corrections and content in to the Wiki so it can be translated and > included in the FC5 ISO images. > > Beat Editors: Please review the changes made. Can I recommend, suggest, or otherwise beg that Someone please condense the three separate Java pages into one canonical page? http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Docs/Beats/PackageNotesJava http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Docs/Beats/Java http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Docs/Beats/DevelTools/Java Each of these has some singular material to offer (but a lot of repetitive stuff too), so it will probably take several minutes to figure out how to moosh them together properly in a logical way. -- Paul W. Frields, RHCE http://paul.frields.org/ gpg fingerprint: 3DA6 A0AC 6D58 FEC4 0233 5906 ACDB C937 BD11 3717 Fedora Documentation Project: http://fedora.redhat.com/projects/docs/ -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: signature.asc Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 191 bytes Desc: This is a digitally signed message part URL: From stickster at gmail.com Fri Feb 24 18:57:53 2006 From: stickster at gmail.com (Paul W. Frields) Date: Fri, 24 Feb 2006 13:57:53 -0500 Subject: [RFC] Towards translatable entities In-Reply-To: <20060223031213.b05b7288.Tommy.Reynolds@MegaCoder.com> References: <20060223031213.b05b7288.Tommy.Reynolds@MegaCoder.com> Message-ID: <1140807473.3254.23.camel@localhost.localdomain> On Thu, 2006-02-23 at 03:12 -0600, Tommy Reynolds wrote: > What follows is an approach to a thorny problem the translators are > encountering. ALL DOCUMENT AUTHORS should read this too, because a > small amount of re-editing will be necessary if this approach is > adopted. I think it will be a one-line change to the > "${PRI_LANG}/${DOCBASE}.xml" file. > > Currently, each document hard-codes the filename needed to include > the FDP entities: [...snip...] > By re-using the same tools and techniques already in place for the > document body translation, it should be possible to: > > 1) Place all entity definitions for a single locale into an XML file > described by a custom DTD. Utilize .POT and .PO files, in > conjunction with an XSL stylesheet, to automatically derive > non-English, aka ${OTHERS}, XML files. Just like we can do for > the document body files. > > 2) Instead of referencing a locale-specific href in the > declaration, reference a fixed filename "entities.ent" that will > actually be a symbolic link (or an equivalent method) to the > translated entity file produced above. The building system > "Makefile.common" should be able to do this transparently to > document authors. > > 3) Dynamic entities like "&DOCDATE;" can easily be implemented by > "Makefile.common" and XSL stylesheet surgery. This will > eliminate the in-document entity definitions in favor of entities > that we can derive from the "rpm-info.xml" file. Might I suggest a fourth possibility (one which I'm not sure will work, and is therefore inherently less cool than what Tommy has done)? 4) Provide a custom DTD to be used for all docs files, which references an i18n tree somewhere in docs-common/common, for instance. This would "wrap" the DTD for our preferred DocBook (looks like V4.4 currently) and provide general ("parsed"?) entities for each language. So John Q. Public would use the following declarations for his original XML file in "en" language: That DTD would contain or reference (doesn't really matter which) the general entities for English. Our scripts could fix the rest because the tools are aware of DOCTYPE, only not entities that are added to the DTD after the initial declaration. (For instance, after running xml2po, a very simple XSL stylesheet could be used with xsltproc to rewrite the DOCTYPE and keep the rest of the infoset exactly the same.) The DTDs themselves could be contained in docs-common somewhere and published to the canonical location to provide updates when necessary. Alternately, we could use the same magic we use for the rpm-info DTD and simply make the SYSTEM URI point to the local docs-common (either in the user's CVS checkout, or /usr/share/fedora/doc/docs-common for people using the (soon to emerge) fedora-doc-common RPM. Please, poke holes in this idea. Call me crazy. Call me a dreamer. Call me for dinner! -- Paul W. Frields, RHCE http://paul.frields.org/ gpg fingerprint: 3DA6 A0AC 6D58 FEC4 0233 5906 ACDB C937 BD11 3717 Fedora Documentation Project: http://fedora.redhat.com/projects/docs/ -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: signature.asc Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 191 bytes Desc: This is a digitally signed message part URL: From Tommy.Reynolds at MegaCoder.com Fri Feb 24 20:29:59 2006 From: Tommy.Reynolds at MegaCoder.com (Tommy Reynolds) Date: Fri, 24 Feb 2006 14:29:59 -0600 Subject: [RFC] Towards translatable entities In-Reply-To: <1140807473.3254.23.camel@localhost.localdomain> References: <20060223031213.b05b7288.Tommy.Reynolds@MegaCoder.com> <1140807473.3254.23.camel@localhost.localdomain> Message-ID: <20060224142959.9f8547ac.Tommy.Reynolds@MegaCoder.com> Uttered "Paul W. Frields" , spake thus: > Might I suggest a fourth possibility (one which I'm not sure will work, > and is therefore inherently less cool than what Tommy has done)? > > 4) Provide a custom DTD to be used for all docs files, which references > an i18n tree somewhere in docs-common/common, for instance. This would > "wrap" the DTD for our preferred DocBook (looks like V4.4 currently) and > provide general ("parsed"?) entities for each language. I considered this step. I also remembered there have been discussions (or requests) about FDP having its own DTD, perhaps an official subset of some DocBook version. The idea has been rejected before because we don't want to document and support a custom DocBook DTD version. We are having enough trouble recruiting XML authors; I think having the appearance of our own DTD would steepen the learning curve when we should be flattening it. And also lessen the document reuse portability. And then we'll get into the "it would be so neat to have " added to the wrapper discussions... So I disregarded this approach and opted for the "virtual file" concept that very closely matches the other building infrastructure. HTH -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 191 bytes Desc: not available URL: From stickster at gmail.com Fri Feb 24 20:53:38 2006 From: stickster at gmail.com (Paul W. Frields) Date: Fri, 24 Feb 2006 15:53:38 -0500 Subject: [RFC] Towards translatable entities In-Reply-To: <20060224142959.9f8547ac.Tommy.Reynolds@MegaCoder.com> References: <20060223031213.b05b7288.Tommy.Reynolds@MegaCoder.com> <1140807473.3254.23.camel@localhost.localdomain> <20060224142959.9f8547ac.Tommy.Reynolds@MegaCoder.com> Message-ID: <1140814418.3254.27.camel@localhost.localdomain> On Fri, 2006-02-24 at 14:29 -0600, Tommy Reynolds wrote: > Uttered "Paul W. Frields" , spake thus: > > > Might I suggest a fourth possibility (one which I'm not sure will work, > > and is therefore inherently less cool than what Tommy has done)? > > > > 4) Provide a custom DTD to be used for all docs files, which references > > an i18n tree somewhere in docs-common/common, for instance. This would > > "wrap" the DTD for our preferred DocBook (looks like V4.4 currently) and > > provide general ("parsed"?) entities for each language. > > I considered this step. > > I also remembered there have been discussions (or requests) about FDP > having its own DTD, perhaps an official subset of some DocBook > version. The idea has been rejected before because we don't want to > document and support a custom DocBook DTD version. I think we could easily draw the line at not customizing the DTD beyond providing some general entities, same as we do now with an include. That way there's no conflict, since DocBook stays DocBook. > We are having enough trouble recruiting XML authors; I think having > the appearance of our own DTD would steepen the learning curve when > we should be flattening it. And also lessen the document reuse > portability. I think the difference is trivial, but... > And then we'll get into the "it would be so neat to have > " added to the wrapper discussions... ...on the other hand, having to fight this battle constantly would suck. It would be so easy to succumb to the Dark Side... > So I disregarded this approach and opted for the "virtual file" > concept that very closely matches the other building infrastructure. OK, I can live with that. -- Paul W. Frields, RHCE http://paul.frields.org/ gpg fingerprint: 3DA6 A0AC 6D58 FEC4 0233 5906 ACDB C937 BD11 3717 Fedora Documentation Project: http://fedora.redhat.com/projects/docs/ -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: signature.asc Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 191 bytes Desc: This is a digitally signed message part URL: From Tommy.Reynolds at MegaCoder.com Fri Feb 24 21:27:50 2006 From: Tommy.Reynolds at MegaCoder.com (Tommy Reynolds) Date: Fri, 24 Feb 2006 15:27:50 -0600 Subject: [RFC] Towards translatable entities In-Reply-To: <1140814418.3254.27.camel@localhost.localdomain> References: <20060223031213.b05b7288.Tommy.Reynolds@MegaCoder.com> <1140807473.3254.23.camel@localhost.localdomain> <20060224142959.9f8547ac.Tommy.Reynolds@MegaCoder.com> <1140814418.3254.27.camel@localhost.localdomain> Message-ID: <20060224152750.0163ffee.Tommy.Reynolds@MegaCoder.com> Uttered "Paul W. Frields" , spake thus: > > I considered this step. > I think the difference is trivial, but... Well, I could be, well, (cough) w-w-wrong. Care to mini-hack one I could play with? -- I'm already an anomaly, I shall soon be an anachronism, and I have every intention of dying an abuse! -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 191 bytes Desc: not available URL: From stickster at gmail.com Fri Feb 24 23:30:39 2006 From: stickster at gmail.com (Paul W. Frields) Date: Fri, 24 Feb 2006 18:30:39 -0500 Subject: [RFC] Towards translatable entities In-Reply-To: <20060224152750.0163ffee.Tommy.Reynolds@MegaCoder.com> References: <20060223031213.b05b7288.Tommy.Reynolds@MegaCoder.com> <1140807473.3254.23.camel@localhost.localdomain> <20060224142959.9f8547ac.Tommy.Reynolds@MegaCoder.com> <1140814418.3254.27.camel@localhost.localdomain> <20060224152750.0163ffee.Tommy.Reynolds@MegaCoder.com> Message-ID: <1140823839.7624.20.camel@localhost.localdomain> On Fri, 2006-02-24 at 15:27 -0600, Tommy Reynolds wrote: > Uttered "Paul W. Frields" , spake thus: > > > > I considered this step. > > I think the difference is trivial, but... > > Well, I could be, well, (cough) w-w-wrong. Care to mini-hack one I > could play with? I'll come right out and admit my first thought was to say "uh, erm, *mumble*, duh...", but instead I gamely took this the way it was undoubtedly intended, as an opportunity to rise to the occasion. And judging by how fast I did this, it's either (1) the obvious solution to this problem *and* world peace; (2) not as hard as it sounds; or (3) evidence I am FLAT-OUT ROCKING. (I was holding out for (3) but my wife is giving me funny looks, so I'm down to hoping for one of the other two.) Grab this file: http://paul.frields.org/images/fdp-en.dtd (use a frames-capable browser or just use the source, Luke) Drop that into your docs-common/common/ folder. Then get a fresh copy of "mirror-tutorial" (a doc I can vouch for working with current build standards). Replace the DOCTYPE declaration in mirror-tutorial/en/mirror-tutorial.xml as follows: For the "..." part, *REMOVE* the declaration and call for FEDORA-ENTITIES-EN, and leave everything else alone (the other entities are doc-specific and no reason for people not to use those when they need them... for now... although we can probably get rid of these too using some cleverness). The document should build fine. Now logic says we should be able to simply do XSLT magic on newly-born XML from PO, to replace the DOCTYPE declaration with the appropriate call to the langified DTD. That DTD is simply a wrapper like my fdp-en.dtd pointing to the appropriate entities file. So: XML(orig) --> POT --> PO(langXX) --> XML(langXX) --> XML'(langXX) xml2po xml2po' xsltproc Does that make sense? As far as the doc-specific entities go, like DOCNAME, DOCVERSION, etc., we should be able to write a fragment at build time (it doesn't have to validate to be included) for this non-language specific data. Unless someone has qualms about using *ANY* entities, which I would hope we're not against in principle. What do you think? -- Paul W. Frields, RHCE http://paul.frields.org/ gpg fingerprint: 3DA6 A0AC 6D58 FEC4 0233 5906 ACDB C937 BD11 3717 Fedora Documentation Project: http://fedora.redhat.com/projects/docs/ -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: signature.asc Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 191 bytes Desc: This is a digitally signed message part URL: From Tommy.Reynolds at MegaCoder.com Sat Feb 25 00:02:04 2006 From: Tommy.Reynolds at MegaCoder.com (Tommy Reynolds) Date: Fri, 24 Feb 2006 18:02:04 -0600 Subject: [RFC] Towards translatable entities In-Reply-To: <1140823839.7624.20.camel@localhost.localdomain> References: <20060223031213.b05b7288.Tommy.Reynolds@MegaCoder.com> <1140807473.3254.23.camel@localhost.localdomain> <20060224142959.9f8547ac.Tommy.Reynolds@MegaCoder.com> <1140814418.3254.27.camel@localhost.localdomain> <20060224152750.0163ffee.Tommy.Reynolds@MegaCoder.com> <1140823839.7624.20.camel@localhost.localdomain> Message-ID: <20060224180204.2e193bb6.Tommy.Reynolds@MegaCoder.com> Uttered "Paul W. Frields" , spake thus: > I'll come right out and admit my first thought was to say "uh, erm, > *mumble*, duh...", but instead I gamely took this the way it was > undoubtedly intended, as an opportunity to rise to the occasion. And > judging by how fast I did this, it's either (1) the obvious solution to > this problem *and* world peace; (2) not as hard as it sounds; or (3) > evidence I am FLAT-OUT ROCKING. (I was holding out for (3) but my wife > is giving me funny looks, so I'm down to hoping for one of the other > two.) "Take the pebble from my hand, Grasshopper." "Time for you to go." Ultra-cool solution. I just learned something, too. We can use my entities DTD/XSL to maintain the entities in a centralized location and keep their translation process intact. Nothing wrong with using entities, per se, it's just that we didn't have a good way for selecting the proper set based on the locale setting. Now, keeping in mind your just-established world land speed record, for extra credit: Can you build a CATALOG so that one need not have Internet access to use this technique? Good work: it reminds me of me. Cheers! -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 191 bytes Desc: not available URL: From Tommy.Reynolds at MegaCoder.com Sat Feb 25 00:05:14 2006 From: Tommy.Reynolds at MegaCoder.com (Tommy Reynolds) Date: Fri, 24 Feb 2006 18:05:14 -0600 Subject: [RFC] Towards translatable entities In-Reply-To: <20060224180204.2e193bb6.Tommy.Reynolds@MegaCoder.com> References: <20060223031213.b05b7288.Tommy.Reynolds@MegaCoder.com> <1140807473.3254.23.camel@localhost.localdomain> <20060224142959.9f8547ac.Tommy.Reynolds@MegaCoder.com> <1140814418.3254.27.camel@localhost.localdomain> <20060224152750.0163ffee.Tommy.Reynolds@MegaCoder.com> <1140823839.7624.20.camel@localhost.localdomain> <20060224180204.2e193bb6.Tommy.Reynolds@MegaCoder.com> Message-ID: <20060224180514.ddb5378a.Tommy.Reynolds@MegaCoder.com> Uttered Tommy Reynolds , spake thus: > "Take the pebble from my hand, Grasshopper." > "Time for you to go." > Good work: it reminds me of me. PS: Karsten, Give this man a raise. -- I'm already an anomaly, I shall soon be an anachronism, and I have every intention of dying an abuse! -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 191 bytes Desc: not available URL: From Tommy.Reynolds at MegaCoder.com Sat Feb 25 04:55:32 2006 From: Tommy.Reynolds at MegaCoder.com (Tommy Reynolds) Date: Fri, 24 Feb 2006 22:55:32 -0600 Subject: [RFC] Towards translatable entities In-Reply-To: <20060224180204.2e193bb6.Tommy.Reynolds@MegaCoder.com> References: <20060223031213.b05b7288.Tommy.Reynolds@MegaCoder.com> <1140807473.3254.23.camel@localhost.localdomain> <20060224142959.9f8547ac.Tommy.Reynolds@MegaCoder.com> <1140814418.3254.27.camel@localhost.localdomain> <20060224152750.0163ffee.Tommy.Reynolds@MegaCoder.com> <1140823839.7624.20.camel@localhost.localdomain> <20060224180204.2e193bb6.Tommy.Reynolds@MegaCoder.com> Message-ID: <20060224225532.15652161.Tommy.Reynolds@MegaCoder.com> Uttered Tommy Reynolds , spake thus: > We can use my entities DTD/XSL to maintain the entities in a > centralized location and keep their translation process intact. OK, I've filled in the English prototype entities in "docs-common/common/entities-en.xml". Check the generated "entities-it.ent" file there and tremble ;-) -- I'm already an anomaly, I shall soon be an anachronism, and I have every intention of dying an abuse! -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 191 bytes Desc: not available URL: From tsekine at sdri.co.jp Sun Feb 26 16:39:38 2006 From: tsekine at sdri.co.jp (SEKINE tatz Tatsuo) Date: Mon, 27 Feb 2006 01:39:38 +0900 (JST) Subject: Inappropriate example in /wiki/Docs/Beats/Networking In-Reply-To: <1140807473.3254.23.camel@localhost.localdomain> References: <20060223031213.b05b7288.Tommy.Reynolds@MegaCoder.com> <1140807473.3254.23.camel@localhost.localdomain> Message-ID: <20060227.013938.105449934.tsekine@sdri.co.jp> Hi all, I have a question about the example of "Configurable Source Address for ICMP Errors" in http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Docs/Beats/Networking For example, the kernel receives an ICMP echo request on the interface eth0. Because the new sysctl option is enabled, this causes the ICMP echo reply to be sent out via eth1. The address of eth0 is used when the default behavior would use the address of eth1. First of all, this new sysctl key refers ICMP *Error* messge. It differs from ICMP Echo Reply. So, we are supposed to think about the case that something error happens. There is another point to be discussed. IMHO, former kernel also uses eth1 interface to sent out the reply (as an error) message in this case. The changed point caused by this new feature is just IP address used in the reply packet. Kernel routing shceme is unchanged in these new kernel releases. My suggestion is: For example, the kernel receives a packet on the interface eth0 which cause ICMP Error and replies the ICMP Error messages via eth1 interface because of its routing table. If the the new sysctl option is enabled, the address of eth0 is used for the source address of the ICMP Error while the default behavior would use the address of eth1. -- SEKINE Tatsuo: tsekine at sdri.co.jp System Design & Research Inst. Co.,Ltd. http://www.amazon.co.jp/exec/obidos/ASIN/4797329750 From stickster at gmail.com Sun Feb 26 17:57:48 2006 From: stickster at gmail.com (Paul W. Frields) Date: Sun, 26 Feb 2006 12:57:48 -0500 Subject: Inappropriate example in /wiki/Docs/Beats/Networking In-Reply-To: <20060227.013938.105449934.tsekine@sdri.co.jp> References: <20060223031213.b05b7288.Tommy.Reynolds@MegaCoder.com> <1140807473.3254.23.camel@localhost.localdomain> <20060227.013938.105449934.tsekine@sdri.co.jp> Message-ID: <1140976668.7624.40.camel@localhost.localdomain> On Mon, 2006-02-27 at 01:39 +0900, SEKINE tatz Tatsuo wrote: > Hi all, I have a question about the example of "Configurable > Source Address for ICMP Errors" in > http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Docs/Beats/Networking > > > For example, the kernel receives an ICMP echo request on the interface eth0. Because the new sysctl option is enabled, this causes the ICMP echo reply to be sent out via eth1. The address of eth0 is used when the default behavior would use the address of eth1. > > > First of all, this new sysctl key refers ICMP *Error* messge. > It differs from ICMP Echo Reply. So, we are supposed to think > about the case that something error happens. > > There is another point to be discussed. IMHO, former kernel > also uses eth1 interface to sent out the reply (as an error) > message in this case. The changed point caused by this new > feature is just IP address used in the reply packet. Kernel > routing shceme is unchanged in these new kernel releases. > > My suggestion is: > For example, the kernel receives a packet on the interface > eth0 which cause ICMP Error and replies the ICMP Error > messages via eth1 interface because of its routing table. > If the the new sysctl option is enabled, the address of eth0 > is used for the source address of the ICMP Error while the > default behavior would use the address of eth1. Tatsuo: Thank you for the suggestion. I didn't like the way this was worded either, but wasn't sure how to change it because I wasn't familiar with the subject matter. I didn't want my change to inadvertently alter the *meaning* of the note. In the future, if you find any more problems like this, please file a bug in Bugzilla under product: Fedora Documentation, component: release-notes. Thanks again for your help, I'll change the notes appropriately. -- Paul W. Frields, RHCE http://paul.frields.org/ gpg fingerprint: 3DA6 A0AC 6D58 FEC4 0233 5906 ACDB C937 BD11 3717 Fedora Documentation Project: http://fedora.redhat.com/projects/docs/ -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: signature.asc Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 191 bytes Desc: This is a digitally signed message part URL: From tombo at adamantio.net Sun Feb 26 21:20:46 2006 From: tombo at adamantio.net (Francesco Tombolini) Date: Sun, 26 Feb 2006 22:20:46 +0100 Subject: release-notes.pot Message-ID: <200602262220.55930.tombo@adamantio.net> Hi all, today I have seen that ru.po was added in the cvs, I have seen that the zh_cn.po is present too, but the first is about 548 strings while the second is 553... How do we have homogeneous documents without a common .pot file? Do I have to make one by myself too? If so, I need help to generate a single .po file with all release-notes content... Thank-you -- Francesco Tombolini -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 191 bytes Desc: not available URL: From tombo at adamantio.net Sun Feb 26 21:46:12 2006 From: tombo at adamantio.net (Francesco Tombolini) Date: Sun, 26 Feb 2006 22:46:12 +0100 Subject: release-notes.pot In-Reply-To: <200602262220.55930.tombo@adamantio.net> References: <200602262220.55930.tombo@adamantio.net> Message-ID: <200602262246.18715.tombo@adamantio.net> Ok! I have seen the Make targets only now sorry for the noise... Alle 22:20, domenica 26 febbraio 2006, Francesco Tombolini ha scritto: > Hi all, > today I have seen that ru.po was added in the cvs, I have seen that the > zh_cn.po is present too, but the first is about 548 strings while the > second is 553... > How do we have homogeneous documents without a common .pot file? > Do I have to make one by myself too? > If so, I need help to generate a single .po file with all release-notes > content... > > Thank-you -- Francesco Tombolini -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 191 bytes Desc: not available URL: From Tommy.Reynolds at MegaCoder.com Sun Feb 26 21:47:07 2006 From: Tommy.Reynolds at MegaCoder.com (Tommy Reynolds) Date: Sun, 26 Feb 2006 15:47:07 -0600 Subject: release-notes.pot In-Reply-To: <200602262220.55930.tombo@adamantio.net> References: <200602262220.55930.tombo@adamantio.net> Message-ID: <20060226154707.1a13b678.Tommy.Reynolds@MegaCoder.com> Uttered Francesco Tombolini , spake thus: > How do we have homogeneous documents without a common .pot file? You are correct, we can't. I just figured this out adding the translatable entities support. I'll switch "Makefile.common" to use a common .POT file ASAP. -- I'm already an anomaly, I shall soon be an anachronism, and I have every intention of dying an abuse! -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 191 bytes Desc: not available URL: From sfolkwil at redhat.com Mon Feb 27 00:11:53 2006 From: sfolkwil at redhat.com (Sam Folk-Williams) Date: Sun, 26 Feb 2006 19:11:53 -0500 Subject: new Editor-in-Chief for release notes In-Reply-To: <1140724710.13412.12.camel@cbcclt02.cbcchome.cbccgroup.com> References: <1140719263.8018.103.camel@erato.phig.org> <1140724710.13412.12.camel@cbcclt02.cbcchome.cbccgroup.com> Message-ID: <440243C9.70107@redhat.com> -----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- Hash: SHA1 Robert 'Bob' Jensen wrote: > On Thu, 2006-02-23 at 10:27 -0800, Karsten Wade wrote: >> I'm quite pleased to inform you that Robert 'Bob' Jensen is taking over >> the Editor-in-Chief role for the release notes. >> >> For the rest of FC5 release, Bob and I are working closely together on >> everything from language edits, Wiki2XML, and publication. The goal is >> for Bob to be running things by FC6 test1. >> >> Here are some of the tasks of the EiC: >> >> * Watches all commits to Docs/Beats >> * Edits content for style, clarity, and markup consistency >> * Coordinates the beat writers (project management) >> - Updating release note schedules[1] >> - Scheduling announcing and enforcing >> - Recruiting help >> * Ensures content goes: >> Wiki -> XML -> PO/POT -> XML -> HTML/TXT -> {ISO, Website} >> * Looks for improvements to the release notes >> - Automation >> - Process changes >> - Tool changes >> >> Thanks - Karsten >> >> [1] http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/DocsProject/Schedule >> -- >> fedora-docs-list mailing list >> fedora-docs-list at redhat.com >> To unsubscribe: >> https://www.redhat.com/mailman/listinfo/fedora-docs-list > > I have to do all that??? Then forget it...LOL > > Glad to have a place to help out. I look forward to learning the > processes and hopefully helping with other tasks as time and experience > allows. > > Welcome, Bob! Look forward to working with you... - -Sam kernel beat -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: GnuPG v1.4.2.1 (GNU/Linux) Comment: Using GnuPG with Fedora - http://enigmail.mozdev.org iD8DBQFEAkPJzOw+vBsNRroRAhgGAKCgYjnB1aXwkS3XmDtQy98vve/cSwCfV9qV SBjpbNHz4Q68BH/sanZ7xGw= =z6YV -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- From Tommy.Reynolds at MegaCoder.com Mon Feb 27 03:15:19 2006 From: Tommy.Reynolds at MegaCoder.com (Tommy Reynolds) Date: Sun, 26 Feb 2006 21:15:19 -0600 Subject: [RFC] Towards translatable entities In-Reply-To: <20060224225532.15652161.Tommy.Reynolds@MegaCoder.com> References: <20060223031213.b05b7288.Tommy.Reynolds@MegaCoder.com> <1140807473.3254.23.camel@localhost.localdomain> <20060224142959.9f8547ac.Tommy.Reynolds@MegaCoder.com> <1140814418.3254.27.camel@localhost.localdomain> <20060224152750.0163ffee.Tommy.Reynolds@MegaCoder.com> <1140823839.7624.20.camel@localhost.localdomain> <20060224180204.2e193bb6.Tommy.Reynolds@MegaCoder.com> <20060224225532.15652161.Tommy.Reynolds@MegaCoder.com> Message-ID: <20060226211519.b8f72e84.Tommy.Reynolds@MegaCoder.com> Uttered Tommy Reynolds , spake thus: > OK, I've filled in the English prototype entities in > "docs-common/common/entities-en.xml". Check the generated > "entities-it.ent" file there and tremble ;-) Firstly, I don't think I've broken anything as I've been checking stuff into CVS; if I have, I'm sure folk will let me know. The basic infrastructure for translatable entities is mostly working. After I fix the egregious use of relative paths within the FDP entities, I'll issue a formal announcement. At the moment, the "example-tutorial" works properly, but nothing else will until I get these relative paths corrected. -- I'm already an anomaly, I shall soon be an anachronism, and I have every intention of dying an abuse! -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 191 bytes Desc: not available URL: From stickster at gmail.com Tue Feb 28 00:34:14 2006 From: stickster at gmail.com (Paul W. Frields) Date: Mon, 27 Feb 2006 19:34:14 -0500 Subject: docs-common Makefile.common,1.73,1.74 In-Reply-To: <200602271912.k1RJCLaY026128@cvs-int.fedora.redhat.com> References: <200602271912.k1RJCLaY026128@cvs-int.fedora.redhat.com> Message-ID: <1141086854.7140.3.camel@localhost.localdomain> On Mon, 2006-02-27 at 14:12 -0500, Karsten Wade wrote: > Author: kwade > > Index: Makefile.common > =================================================================== > RCS file: /cvs/docs/docs-common/Makefile.common,v > retrieving revision 1.73 > retrieving revision 1.74 > diff -u -r1.73 -r1.74 > --- Makefile.common 26 Feb 2006 22:40:53 -0000 1.73 > +++ Makefile.common 27 Feb 2006 19:12:12 -0000 1.74 > @@ -756,7 +756,7 @@ > define LOCALE_template > .PHONY: set-locale-${1} > set-locale-${1}:: > - ${LN} -f -s ${FDPDIR}/docs-common/common/entities/entities-${1}.ent \ > + ${LN} -f -s ${FDPDIR}/docs-common/common/entities/entities-${1}.xml \ > ${LOCALE_ENTITIES} Err... doesn't this break stuff? The .ent file is generated from the .xml, and the LOCALE_ENTITIES is a link to those entities. If you link to the .xml sources things stop working. -- Paul W. Frields, RHCE http://paul.frields.org/ gpg fingerprint: 3DA6 A0AC 6D58 FEC4 0233 5906 ACDB C937 BD11 3717 Fedora Documentation Project: http://fedora.redhat.com/projects/docs/ -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: signature.asc Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 191 bytes Desc: This is a digitally signed message part URL: From Tommy.Reynolds at MegaCoder.com Tue Feb 28 01:12:13 2006 From: Tommy.Reynolds at MegaCoder.com (Tommy Reynolds) Date: Mon, 27 Feb 2006 19:12:13 -0600 Subject: docs-common Makefile.common,1.73,1.74 In-Reply-To: <1141086854.7140.3.camel@localhost.localdomain> References: <200602271912.k1RJCLaY026128@cvs-int.fedora.redhat.com> <1141086854.7140.3.camel@localhost.localdomain> Message-ID: <20060227191213.3225662a.Tommy.Reynolds@MegaCoder.com> Uttered "Paul W. Frields" , spake thus: > On Mon, 2006-02-27 at 14:12 -0500, Karsten Wade wrote: > > set-locale-${1}:: > > - ${LN} -f -s ${FDPDIR}/docs-common/common/entities/entities-${1}.ent \ > > + ${LN} -f -s ${FDPDIR}/docs-common/common/entities/entities-${1}.xml \ > > ${LOCALE_ENTITIES} > Err... doesn't this break stuff? The .ent file is generated from > the .xml, and the LOCALE_ENTITIES is a link to those entities. If you > link to the .xml sources things stop working. Yup, it absolutely breaks stuff. The XML file is the raw form that needs to be compiled into the ".ent" file, containing NOTHING except elements. This file gets included as part of the 's local DTD section, between the '[]' pair, and you can't put full XML in there, only stuff. Karsten, please revert. -- I'm already an anomaly, I shall soon be an anachronism, and I have every intention of dying an abuse! -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 191 bytes Desc: not available URL: From Tommy.Reynolds at MegaCoder.com Tue Feb 28 02:09:20 2006 From: Tommy.Reynolds at MegaCoder.com (Tommy Reynolds) Date: Mon, 27 Feb 2006 20:09:20 -0600 Subject: docs-common Makefile.common,1.73,1.74 In-Reply-To: <20060227191213.3225662a.Tommy.Reynolds@MegaCoder.com> References: <200602271912.k1RJCLaY026128@cvs-int.fedora.redhat.com> <1141086854.7140.3.camel@localhost.localdomain> <20060227191213.3225662a.Tommy.Reynolds@MegaCoder.com> Message-ID: <20060227200920.28e56148.Tommy.Reynolds@MegaCoder.com> Uttered Tommy Reynolds , spake thus: > This file gets included as part of the 's local DTD section, > between the '[]' pair, and you can't put full XML in there, only > stuff. > > Karsten, please revert. Oh, heck, I was under the hood anyway... -- I'm already an anomaly, I shall soon be an anachronism, and I have every intention of dying an abuse! -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 191 bytes Desc: not available URL: From Tommy.Reynolds at MegaCoder.com Tue Feb 28 02:12:46 2006 From: Tommy.Reynolds at MegaCoder.com (Tommy Reynolds) Date: Mon, 27 Feb 2006 20:12:46 -0600 Subject: [RFC] Towards translatable entities In-Reply-To: <20060226211519.b8f72e84.Tommy.Reynolds@MegaCoder.com> References: <20060223031213.b05b7288.Tommy.Reynolds@MegaCoder.com> <1140807473.3254.23.camel@localhost.localdomain> <20060224142959.9f8547ac.Tommy.Reynolds@MegaCoder.com> <1140814418.3254.27.camel@localhost.localdomain> <20060224152750.0163ffee.Tommy.Reynolds@MegaCoder.com> <1140823839.7624.20.camel@localhost.localdomain> <20060224180204.2e193bb6.Tommy.Reynolds@MegaCoder.com> <20060224225532.15652161.Tommy.Reynolds@MegaCoder.com> <20060226211519.b8f72e84.Tommy.Reynolds@MegaCoder.com> Message-ID: <20060227201246.763c81fc.Tommy.Reynolds@MegaCoder.com> Uttered Tommy Reynolds , spake thus: > At the moment, the "example-tutorial" works properly, but nothing > else will until I get these relative paths corrected. OK, I've fixed relative paths for the "docs-common/common" file references. Both the "example-tutorial" and my locally-hacked "mirror-tutorial" build correctly. If nobody complains, I'll issue an [ANN] to here and the f-trans-l to get the "docs-common/common/entities/entities-en.xml" translations started. Once those are done, we can then switch to using this new technique: Paul will have to revisit packaging and then we call do another [ANN] for the remaining doc authors. -- I'm already an anomaly, I shall soon be an anachronism, and I have every intention of dying an abuse! -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 191 bytes Desc: not available URL: From kwade at redhat.com Tue Feb 28 03:55:27 2006 From: kwade at redhat.com (Karsten Wade) Date: Mon, 27 Feb 2006 19:55:27 -0800 Subject: docs-common Makefile.common,1.73,1.74 In-Reply-To: <20060227191213.3225662a.Tommy.Reynolds@MegaCoder.com> References: <200602271912.k1RJCLaY026128@cvs-int.fedora.redhat.com> <1141086854.7140.3.camel@localhost.localdomain> <20060227191213.3225662a.Tommy.Reynolds@MegaCoder.com> Message-ID: <1141098927.26154.13.camel@erato.phig.org> On Mon, 2006-02-27 at 19:12 -0600, Tommy Reynolds wrote: > Uttered "Paul W. Frields" , spake thus: > > > On Mon, 2006-02-27 at 14:12 -0500, Karsten Wade wrote: > > > set-locale-${1}:: > > > - ${LN} -f -s ${FDPDIR}/docs-common/common/entities/entities-${1}.ent \ > > > + ${LN} -f -s ${FDPDIR}/docs-common/common/entities/entities-${1}.xml \ > > > ${LOCALE_ENTITIES} > > Err... doesn't this break stuff? The .ent file is generated from > > the .xml, and the LOCALE_ENTITIES is a link to those entities. If you > > link to the .xml sources things stop working. > > Yup, it absolutely breaks stuff. The XML file is the raw form that > needs to be compiled into the ".ent" file, containing NOTHING except > elements. > > This file gets included as part of the 's local DTD section, > between the '[]' pair, and you can't put full XML in there, only > stuff. I obviously didn't grok what was going on. I was helping a user who's first error was a bad symlink because it was trying to get ../docs- common/common/entities/entities-en.ent ... because it's not there. It wasn't getting dynamically generated. Doing this at least caused a new set of problems. :) - Karsten -- Karsten Wade, RHCE * Sr. Tech Writer * http://people.redhat.com/kwade/ gpg fingerprint: 2680 DBFD D968 3141 0115 5F1B D992 0E06 AD0E 0C41 Content Services Fedora Documentation Project http://www.redhat.com/docs http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/DocsProject -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: signature.asc Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 189 bytes Desc: This is a digitally signed message part URL: From Tommy.Reynolds at MegaCoder.com Tue Feb 28 04:06:21 2006 From: Tommy.Reynolds at MegaCoder.com (Tommy Reynolds) Date: Mon, 27 Feb 2006 22:06:21 -0600 Subject: docs-common Makefile.common,1.73,1.74 In-Reply-To: <1141098927.26154.13.camel@erato.phig.org> References: <200602271912.k1RJCLaY026128@cvs-int.fedora.redhat.com> <1141086854.7140.3.camel@localhost.localdomain> <20060227191213.3225662a.Tommy.Reynolds@MegaCoder.com> <1141098927.26154.13.camel@erato.phig.org> Message-ID: <20060227220621.181f3fb7.Tommy.Reynolds@MegaCoder.com> Uttered Karsten Wade , spake thus: > I obviously didn't grok what was going on. I was helping a user who's > first error was a bad symlink because it was trying to get ../docs- > common/common/entities/entities-en.ent ... because it's not there. It > wasn't getting dynamically generated. Doing this at least caused a new > set of problems. :) The "example-tutorial" stuff has been in flux for a couple of days, but it's all OK now. Using the older "&FEDORA-ENTITIES-EN;" hack should have been working all along. Sorry for any confusion this has caused. At this point both methods are usable, but the NWO "entities/" has only English versions at the moment. Make sure that the "docs-common/common/entities/" directory has been installed: $ cd docs-common/common $ cvs update entities and you shouldn't have any problems with the "en" locale. We don't have any other translations yet. -- I'm already an anomaly, I shall soon be an anachronism, and I have every intention of dying an abuse! -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 191 bytes Desc: not available URL: From bbbush.yuan at gmail.com Tue Feb 28 12:28:07 2006 From: bbbush.yuan at gmail.com (Yuan Yijun) Date: Tue, 28 Feb 2006 20:28:07 +0800 Subject: release-notes/po RELEASE-NOTES.pot,NONE,1.1 In-Reply-To: <200602281224.k1SCOjHA001739@cvs-int.fedora.redhat.com> References: <200602281224.k1SCOjHA001739@cvs-int.fedora.redhat.com> Message-ID: <76e72f800602280428w12de7e1fk@mail.gmail.com> 2006/2/28, jtr Tommy Reynolds : > Author: jtr > > Update of /cvs/docs/release-notes/po > In directory cvs-int.fedora.redhat.com:/tmp/cvs-serv1722 > > Added Files: > RELEASE-NOTES.pot > Log Message: > Include ".pot" file into the CVS archive. > > When will there be pot for IG and when can IG be built? -- bbbush ^_^ From Tommy.Reynolds at MegaCoder.com Tue Feb 28 12:45:21 2006 From: Tommy.Reynolds at MegaCoder.com (Tommy Reynolds) Date: Tue, 28 Feb 2006 06:45:21 -0600 Subject: release-notes/po RELEASE-NOTES.pot,NONE,1.1 In-Reply-To: <76e72f800602280428w12de7e1fk@mail.gmail.com> References: <200602281224.k1SCOjHA001739@cvs-int.fedora.redhat.com> <76e72f800602280428w12de7e1fk@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <20060228064521.28d357eb.Tommy.Reynolds@MegaCoder.com> Uttered "Yuan Yijun" , spake thus: > When will there be pot for IG and when can IG be built? I've added a POT file for the IG. Update from CVS to get it. According to the "owners" file, that document is owned by mailto:fdr at eln.fastmail.fm and only he can answer the "when" part of your question. -- I'm already an anomaly, I shall soon be an anachronism, and I have every intention of dying an abuse! -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 191 bytes Desc: not available URL: From stickster at gmail.com Tue Feb 28 12:48:42 2006 From: stickster at gmail.com (Paul W. Frields) Date: Tue, 28 Feb 2006 07:48:42 -0500 Subject: release-notes/po RELEASE-NOTES.pot,NONE,1.1 In-Reply-To: <20060228064521.28d357eb.Tommy.Reynolds@MegaCoder.com> References: <200602281224.k1SCOjHA001739@cvs-int.fedora.redhat.com> <76e72f800602280428w12de7e1fk@mail.gmail.com> <20060228064521.28d357eb.Tommy.Reynolds@MegaCoder.com> Message-ID: <1141130922.9354.5.camel@localhost.localdomain> On Tue, 2006-02-28 at 06:45 -0600, Tommy Reynolds wrote: > Uttered "Yuan Yijun" , spake thus: > > > When will there be pot for IG and when can IG be built? > > I've added a POT file for the IG. Update from CVS to get it. > > According to the "owners" file, that document is owned by > mailto:fdr at eln.fastmail.fm and only he can answer the "when" part of > your question. That's Stuart, I'm sure he'll drop in with a reply shortly. -- Paul W. Frields, RHCE http://paul.frields.org/ gpg fingerprint: 3DA6 A0AC 6D58 FEC4 0233 5906 ACDB C937 BD11 3717 Fedora Documentation Project: http://fedora.redhat.com/projects/docs/ -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: signature.asc Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 191 bytes Desc: This is a digitally signed message part URL: From Tommy.Reynolds at MegaCoder.com Tue Feb 28 17:37:27 2006 From: Tommy.Reynolds at MegaCoder.com (Tommy Reynolds) Date: Tue, 28 Feb 2006 11:37:27 -0600 Subject: docs-common/common legalnotice-content-p1-en.xml,1.2,1.3 In-Reply-To: <200602281732.k1SHWmE3014189@cvs-int.fedora.redhat.com> References: <200602281732.k1SHWmE3014189@cvs-int.fedora.redhat.com> Message-ID: <20060228113727.e4bc1a81.Tommy.Reynolds@MegaCoder.com> Uttered "Karsten Wade" (kwade) , spake thus: > Publication License, v1.0, available at - url="http://www.opencontent.org/openpub/">http://www.opencontent.org/openpub/). > + url="http://www.opencontent.org/openpub/">http://www.opencontent.org/openpub/. I know the meter is running, but please try to use the empty-content form for consistency. Cheers -- I'm already an anomaly, I shall soon be an anachronism, and I have every intention of dying an abuse! -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 191 bytes Desc: not available URL: From Tommy.Reynolds at MegaCoder.com Tue Feb 28 17:38:42 2006 From: Tommy.Reynolds at MegaCoder.com (Tommy Reynolds) Date: Tue, 28 Feb 2006 11:38:42 -0600 Subject: docs-common/common legalnotice-content-p1-en.xml,1.2,1.3 In-Reply-To: <20060228113727.e4bc1a81.Tommy.Reynolds@MegaCoder.com> References: <200602281732.k1SHWmE3014189@cvs-int.fedora.redhat.com> <20060228113727.e4bc1a81.Tommy.Reynolds@MegaCoder.com> Message-ID: <20060228113842.b410691c.Tommy.Reynolds@MegaCoder.com> Uttered Tommy Reynolds , spake thus: > ^^^^^ Sorry, too big of a hurry. -- I'm already an anomaly, I shall soon be an anachronism, and I have every intention of dying an abuse! -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 191 bytes Desc: not available URL: From kwade at redhat.com Tue Feb 28 18:32:16 2006 From: kwade at redhat.com (Karsten Wade) Date: Tue, 28 Feb 2006 10:32:16 -0800 Subject: docs-common/common legalnotice-content-p1-en.xml,1.2,1.3 In-Reply-To: <20060228113727.e4bc1a81.Tommy.Reynolds@MegaCoder.com> References: <200602281732.k1SHWmE3014189@cvs-int.fedora.redhat.com> <20060228113727.e4bc1a81.Tommy.Reynolds@MegaCoder.com> Message-ID: <1141151536.26154.31.camel@erato.phig.org> On Tue, 2006-02-28 at 11:37 -0600, Tommy Reynolds wrote: > Uttered "Karsten Wade" (kwade) , spake thus: > > > Publication License, v1.0, available at > - url="http://www.opencontent.org/openpub/">http://www.opencontent.org/openpub/). > > + url="http://www.opencontent.org/openpub/">http://www.opencontent.org/openpub/. > > I know the meter is running, but please try to use the > > Old habits are the hardest to break. :) - Karsten -- Karsten Wade, RHCE * Sr. Tech Writer * http://people.redhat.com/kwade/ gpg fingerprint: 2680 DBFD D968 3141 0115 5F1B D992 0E06 AD0E 0C41 Content Services Fedora Documentation Project http://www.redhat.com/docs http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/DocsProject -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... 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