From calennert at gmail.com Sun Jan 1 03:54:33 2006 From: calennert at gmail.com (Chris Lennert) Date: Sat, 31 Dec 2005 22:54:33 -0500 Subject: Packaging progress In-Reply-To: <20051231100959.468aa1fb.Tommy.Reynolds@MegaCoder.com> References: <1135807982.31955.35.camel@localhost.localdomain> <20051228192730.c824b4e3.Tommy.Reynolds@MegaCoder.com> <1135921589.14503.9.camel@localhost.localdomain> <20051230073956.9f5040bc.Tommy.Reynolds@MegaCoder.com> <1136033437.17582.22.camel@localhost.localdomain> <20051231100959.468aa1fb.Tommy.Reynolds@MegaCoder.com> Message-ID: <43B75279.8050200@gmail.com> Tommy Reynolds wrote: >>Saw this, thanks. For some reason I'm getting your mail to the list >>really late, which is why my response is so delayed in real time. > > > Yeah, I saw them arrive long after they were sent. > > Thank BellSouth for blocking all 25/tcp and 25/udp access unless its > to their very own SMTP server. They claim it is to help prevent > relaying; they don't seem to believe there are other solutions. At > that, they're better than the Charter setup that's my only > alternative. Given the BellSouth/Charter/time proximity, I can only say the following: Happy New Year! Ein gutes neues Jahr! Feliz ano nuevo! Sincerely, Chris -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: signature.asc Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 189 bytes Desc: OpenPGP digital signature URL: From dwmw2 at infradead.org Sun Jan 1 08:24:56 2006 From: dwmw2 at infradead.org (David Woodhouse) Date: Sun, 01 Jan 2006 08:24:56 +0000 Subject: Packaging progress In-Reply-To: <20051231100959.468aa1fb.Tommy.Reynolds@MegaCoder.com> References: <1135807982.31955.35.camel@localhost.localdomain> <20051228192730.c824b4e3.Tommy.Reynolds@MegaCoder.com> <1135921589.14503.9.camel@localhost.localdomain> <20051230073956.9f5040bc.Tommy.Reynolds@MegaCoder.com> <1136033437.17582.22.camel@localhost.localdomain> <20051231100959.468aa1fb.Tommy.Reynolds@MegaCoder.com> Message-ID: <1136103896.3516.179.camel@pmac.infradead.org> On Sat, 2005-12-31 at 10:09 -0600, Tommy Reynolds wrote: > Thank BellSouth for blocking all 25/tcp and 25/udp access unless its > to their very own SMTP server. They claim it is to help prevent > relaying; they don't seem to believe there are other solutions. At > that, they're better than the Charter setup that's my only > alternative. Blocking access to port 25 isn't such a bad plan in the grand scheme of things. What's the actual problem -- just that their servers are very slow to pass mail through? You could use an external mail server listening on a port other than 25, surely? -- dwmw2 From Tommy.Reynolds at MegaCoder.com Sun Jan 1 15:29:47 2006 From: Tommy.Reynolds at MegaCoder.com (Tommy Reynolds) Date: Sun, 1 Jan 2006 09:29:47 -0600 Subject: Packaging progress In-Reply-To: <1136103896.3516.179.camel@pmac.infradead.org> References: <1135807982.31955.35.camel@localhost.localdomain> <20051228192730.c824b4e3.Tommy.Reynolds@MegaCoder.com> <1135921589.14503.9.camel@localhost.localdomain> <20051230073956.9f5040bc.Tommy.Reynolds@MegaCoder.com> <1136033437.17582.22.camel@localhost.localdomain> <20051231100959.468aa1fb.Tommy.Reynolds@MegaCoder.com> <1136103896.3516.179.camel@pmac.infradead.org> Message-ID: <20060101092947.9aca56a3.Tommy.Reynolds@MegaCoder.com> Uttered David Woodhouse , spake thus: > Blocking access to port 25 isn't such a bad plan in the grand scheme of > things. What's the actual problem -- just that their servers are very > slow to pass mail through? You could use an external mail server > listening on a port other than 25, surely? Agreed: filtering port 25 is an acceptable part of an over-all security scheme. Unfortunately, BellSouth appear to never have heard of authentication, certificates, and the like. Tunneling could work if there were someone on the other end. Wanna volunteer? Cheers -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 189 bytes Desc: not available URL: From dwmw2 at infradead.org Sun Jan 1 15:51:22 2006 From: dwmw2 at infradead.org (David Woodhouse) Date: Sun, 01 Jan 2006 15:51:22 +0000 Subject: Packaging progress In-Reply-To: <20060101092947.9aca56a3.Tommy.Reynolds@MegaCoder.com> References: <1135807982.31955.35.camel@localhost.localdomain> <20051228192730.c824b4e3.Tommy.Reynolds@MegaCoder.com> <1135921589.14503.9.camel@localhost.localdomain> <20051230073956.9f5040bc.Tommy.Reynolds@MegaCoder.com> <1136033437.17582.22.camel@localhost.localdomain> <20051231100959.468aa1fb.Tommy.Reynolds@MegaCoder.com> <1136103896.3516.179.camel@pmac.infradead.org> <20060101092947.9aca56a3.Tommy.Reynolds@MegaCoder.com> Message-ID: <1136130682.3516.196.camel@pmac.infradead.org> On Sun, 2006-01-01 at 09:29 -0600, Tommy Reynolds wrote: > Agreed: filtering port 25 is an acceptable part of an over-all > security scheme. Unfortunately, BellSouth appear to never have heard > of authentication, certificates, and the like. Surely if you're physically within their network you don't _need_ authentication? You just use their smarthost and you're authenticated by virtue of coming from one of their own customer IP addresses. > Tunneling could work if there were someone on the other end. I wasn't thinking of tunnelling -- I was thinking of just connecting directly to the standard MSA port of a mail server elsewhere (cf. RFC2476). > Wanna volunteer? I don't see why not. Use smtpauth.infradead.org -- username and password under separate cover. -- dwmw2 From nman64 at n-man.com Mon Jan 2 07:44:55 2006 From: nman64 at n-man.com (Patrick Barnes) Date: Mon, 02 Jan 2006 01:44:55 -0600 Subject: Packaging progress In-Reply-To: <20051231100959.468aa1fb.Tommy.Reynolds@MegaCoder.com> References: <1135807982.31955.35.camel@localhost.localdomain> <20051228192730.c824b4e3.Tommy.Reynolds@MegaCoder.com> <1135921589.14503.9.camel@localhost.localdomain> <20051230073956.9f5040bc.Tommy.Reynolds@MegaCoder.com> <1136033437.17582.22.camel@localhost.localdomain> <20051231100959.468aa1fb.Tommy.Reynolds@MegaCoder.com> Message-ID: <43B8D9F7.90605@n-man.com> Tommy Reynolds wrote: > Uttered "Paul W. Frields" , spake thus: > > > > > > >
Style changes
> > > > > > > >
Update to 0.15
> > > > This may be a case where it's good to sacrifice compactness on the altar > > of comprehensibility. > > Since we simply disagree, let's just pick one, use it for a while, > and then see which works better in the long run. Since we have > multiple solutions, let evolution take its course. Pick one. > > > Saw this, thanks. For some reason I'm getting your mail to the list > > really late, which is why my response is so delayed in real time. > > Yeah, I saw them arrive long after they were sent. > > Thank BellSouth for blocking all 25/tcp and 25/udp access unless its > to their very own SMTP server. They claim it is to help prevent > relaying; they don't seem to believe there are other solutions. At > that, they're better than the Charter setup that's my only > alternative. > > Cheers > You can call the customer service line and request an exemption from the port 25 blocking. I did this and had full port 25 privileges within minutes. In the case of their dynamic solutions, the exemption is connected to your PPPoE login, so it follows your IP changes. -- Patrick "The N-Man" Barnes nman64 at n-man.com http://www.n-man.com/ -- Have I been helpful? Rate my assistance! http://rate.affero.net/nman64/ -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: signature.asc Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 189 bytes Desc: OpenPGP digital signature URL: From sonar_guy at c-ccom.com Mon Jan 2 18:50:00 2006 From: sonar_guy at c-ccom.com (Scott Glaser) Date: Mon, 02 Jan 2006 13:50:00 -0500 Subject: Attempt to Assist in the generation of the FC5 Installation Guide Message-ID: <1136227800.16926.20.camel@compaqlaptop.sqq89.com> Paul/Stuart, I have started working on a rewrite of the installation guide based on the document that you referenced in https://bugzilla.redhat.com/bugzilla/show_bug.cgi?id=173735. I had previously posted http://fedorasolved.org/installation_solutions/fedora_core_4_network_installation_guide.html as a possible viable solution, but have since changed my mind as there is not currently enough detail nor does it cover what needs to be addressed. So I have started rewriting the IG in hopes of making it more user friendly to "New Users" of Fedora. I believe that this document should be the one that all users turn to, vice what is currently happening, which is that most new users hit google and follow the installation tutorials that are readily available on the net. I am looking for input from everybody in order to make this what it should be. Here is the Layout that I have come up with so far, http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Docs/Drafts/InstallationGuide. If you have any comments or suggestions feel free to drop me a line or discuss them via this e-mail. Thanks in Advance, Scott Glaser Fedora Core User Web - http://fedoraunity.org/ Key fingerprint = 61F5 C7DF 2F63 4A53 44D2 B9BE 3841 EA4F 5990 00BD -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: signature.asc Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 189 bytes Desc: This is a digitally signed message part URL: From Tommy.Reynolds at MegaCoder.com Mon Jan 2 21:27:06 2006 From: Tommy.Reynolds at MegaCoder.com (Tommy Reynolds) Date: Mon, 2 Jan 2006 15:27:06 -0600 Subject: XSLT Tip Message-ID: <20060102152706.c60a6eab.Tommy.Reynolds@MegaCoder.com> Paul, + + + + + + + + + + + + This is a bit verbose. Embedding so much of each element's path here can be detrimental to maintainability. The cycles through the available /rpm-info/copyright/ elements, setting the symbol "." or node() to the element currently getting the "focus", so you could write this as: HTH. -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 189 bytes Desc: not available URL: From stickster at gmail.com Tue Jan 3 00:39:04 2006 From: stickster at gmail.com (Paul W. Frields) Date: Mon, 02 Jan 2006 19:39:04 -0500 Subject: XSLT Tip In-Reply-To: <20060102152706.c60a6eab.Tommy.Reynolds@MegaCoder.com> References: <20060102152706.c60a6eab.Tommy.Reynolds@MegaCoder.com> Message-ID: <1136248744.7463.12.camel@localhost.localdomain> On Mon, 2006-01-02 at 15:27 -0600, Tommy Reynolds wrote: > Paul, > > + > + > + > + > + > + > + > + > + > + > + > + > > This is a bit verbose. Embedding so much of each element's path here > can be detrimental to maintainability. The cycles > through the available /rpm-info/copyright/ elements, setting the > symbol "." or node() to the element currently getting the "focus", so > you could write this as: > > > > > > > > > > HTH. Actually, I thought the same thing before my commit, WRT the absolute element path, then promptly forgot to go back and change it. Thanks for catching this. The node() thing I didn't realize was an issue. Are there any usage differences between "node()" and "."? -- Paul W. Frields, RHCE http://paul.frields.org/ gpg fingerprint: 3DA6 A0AC 6D58 FEC4 0233 5906 ACDB C937 BD11 3717 Fedora Documentation Project: http://fedora.redhat.com/projects/docs/ -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: signature.asc Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 189 bytes Desc: This is a digitally signed message part URL: From calennert at gmail.com Tue Jan 3 02:06:00 2006 From: calennert at gmail.com (Chris Lennert) Date: Mon, 02 Jan 2006 21:06:00 -0500 Subject: XSLT Tip In-Reply-To: <1136248744.7463.12.camel@localhost.localdomain> References: <20060102152706.c60a6eab.Tommy.Reynolds@MegaCoder.com> <1136248744.7463.12.camel@localhost.localdomain> Message-ID: <43B9DC08.1030202@gmail.com> Paul W. Frields wrote: > Actually, I thought the same thing before my commit, WRT the absolute > element path, then promptly forgot to go back and change it. Thanks for > catching this. The node() thing I didn't realize was an issue. Are > there any usage differences between "node()" and "."? > As I understand XPath: "node()" is a node test that yields true for any type of node whether it be an attribute, element, et cetera. The "." is short for self::node() and always refers to the node currently being pointed to, the context node. node() can refer to nodes other than the context node, as in "child::node()" (all nodes that are immediate children of the context node) or "ancestor::node()" (all nodes that are parents, grandparents, etc. of the context node). -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: signature.asc Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 189 bytes Desc: OpenPGP digital signature URL: From stickster at gmail.com Tue Jan 3 02:10:57 2006 From: stickster at gmail.com (Paul W. Frields) Date: Mon, 02 Jan 2006 21:10:57 -0500 Subject: XSLT Tip In-Reply-To: <43B9DC08.1030202@gmail.com> References: <20060102152706.c60a6eab.Tommy.Reynolds@MegaCoder.com> <1136248744.7463.12.camel@localhost.localdomain> <43B9DC08.1030202@gmail.com> Message-ID: <1136254258.7463.15.camel@localhost.localdomain> On Mon, 2006-01-02 at 21:06 -0500, Chris Lennert wrote: > Paul W. Frields wrote: > > Actually, I thought the same thing before my commit, WRT the absolute > > element path, then promptly forgot to go back and change it. Thanks for > > catching this. The node() thing I didn't realize was an issue. Are > > there any usage differences between "node()" and "."? > > > > As I understand XPath: "node()" is a node test that yields true for any type of > node whether it be an attribute, element, et cetera. The "." is short for > self::node() and always refers to the node currently being pointed to, the > context node. node() can refer to nodes other than the context node, as in > "child::node()" (all nodes that are immediate children of the context node) or > "ancestor::node()" (all nodes that are parents, grandparents, etc. of the > context node). I understand that node() is a function that can be applied to nodes other than the current context. I should have been more clear in my question; what I meant was, in a given context are: and: always equivalent? -- Paul W. Frields, RHCE http://paul.frields.org/ gpg fingerprint: 3DA6 A0AC 6D58 FEC4 0233 5906 ACDB C937 BD11 3717 Fedora Documentation Project: http://fedora.redhat.com/projects/docs/ -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: signature.asc Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 189 bytes Desc: This is a digitally signed message part URL: From kwade at redhat.com Tue Jan 3 08:31:39 2006 From: kwade at redhat.com (Karsten Wade) Date: Tue, 03 Jan 2006 00:31:39 -0800 Subject: Docs/Beats freeze for translation [FC5 test2] Message-ID: <1136277099.21442.107.camel@erato.phig.org> To create a content freeze for translation for FC5 test2, we are taking a snapshot of Docs/Beats to convert into XML. The milestone was Midnight UTC 02 January, which has passed. We'll be converting the content over the next twelve hours. Expect the snapshot from the Wiki to be in CVS by around 17:00 UTC 03 January. The Wiki remains open for changes. New content goes into the Web-only latest relnotes that are posted at the time of the test release. If you think you have a content change that needs to make it into the ISO: 1. Contact your beat writer[1], or 2. Make the content change to the Wiki[2] Then come to #fedora-docs or send email to to draw our attention to the change. [1] http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/DocsProject/ReleaseNotes/Beats#assignments [2] http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Docs/Beats cheers - Karsten -- Karsten Wade, RHCE * Sr. Tech Writer * http://people.redhat.com/kwade/ gpg fingerprint: 2680 DBFD D968 3141 0115 5F1B D992 0E06 AD0E 0C41 Content Services Fedora Documentation Project http://www.redhat.com/docs http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/DocsProject -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: signature.asc Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 189 bytes Desc: This is a digitally signed message part URL: From kwade at redhat.com Tue Jan 3 18:44:55 2006 From: kwade at redhat.com (Karsten Wade) Date: Tue, 03 Jan 2006 10:44:55 -0800 Subject: Attempt to Assist in the generation of the FC5 Installation Guide In-Reply-To: <1136227800.16926.20.camel@compaqlaptop.sqq89.com> References: <1136227800.16926.20.camel@compaqlaptop.sqq89.com> Message-ID: <1136313895.8443.20.camel@erato.phig.org> On Mon, 2006-01-02 at 13:50 -0500, Scott Glaser wrote: > Paul/Stuart, > > I have started working on a rewrite of the installation guide ... > Here is the Layout that I have come up with so far, > http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Docs/Drafts/InstallationGuide. My only suggestion so far is to avoid actually rewriting the content in the Wiki. Conversion from Wiki to DocBook is not automated. We can get valid XML, but merging the content is manual (at best). Thanks for taking on this usability rewrite! - Karsten -- Karsten Wade, RHCE * Sr. Tech Writer * http://people.redhat.com/kwade/ gpg fingerprint: 2680 DBFD D968 3141 0115 5F1B D992 0E06 AD0E 0C41 Content Services Fedora Documentation Project http://www.redhat.com/docs http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/DocsProject -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: signature.asc Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 189 bytes Desc: This is a digitally signed message part URL: From stickster at gmail.com Tue Jan 3 19:16:26 2006 From: stickster at gmail.com (Paul W. Frields) Date: Tue, 03 Jan 2006 14:16:26 -0500 Subject: Attempt to Assist in the generation of the FC5 Installation Guide In-Reply-To: <1136313895.8443.20.camel@erato.phig.org> References: <1136227800.16926.20.camel@compaqlaptop.sqq89.com> <1136313895.8443.20.camel@erato.phig.org> Message-ID: <1136315786.19117.3.camel@localhost.localdomain> On Tue, 2006-01-03 at 10:44 -0800, Karsten Wade wrote: > On Mon, 2006-01-02 at 13:50 -0500, Scott Glaser wrote: > > Paul/Stuart, > > > > I have started working on a rewrite of the installation guide > ... > > Here is the Layout that I have come up with so far, > > http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Docs/Drafts/InstallationGuide. > > My only suggestion so far is to avoid actually rewriting the content in > the Wiki. > > Conversion from Wiki to DocBook is not automated. We can get valid XML, > but merging the content is manual (at best). > > Thanks for taking on this usability rewrite! I had suggested this to Scott also in IRC. I think the process might work better (and be less exhausting for Scott!) if we use the Wiki page as a place simply to outline and make terse notes. Then Stuart and I can do the actual "longhand" writing in CVS, and Scott can view the results at the webtest host to monitor and critique our progress. This also keeps Scott from having to learn much about our style guidelines and cuts down on our workload too, since it's easier (I think) for us to write straight into CVS rather than convert -> merge (yuck) -> edit for style. Just my thoughts, waiting for others to comment... -- Paul W. Frields, RHCE http://paul.frields.org/ gpg fingerprint: 3DA6 A0AC 6D58 FEC4 0233 5906 ACDB C937 BD11 3717 Fedora Documentation Project: http://fedora.redhat.com/projects/docs/ -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: signature.asc Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 189 bytes Desc: This is a digitally signed message part URL: From stickster at gmail.com Tue Jan 3 19:41:41 2006 From: stickster at gmail.com (Paul W. Frields) Date: Tue, 03 Jan 2006 14:41:41 -0500 Subject: Fedora survey results In-Reply-To: <43BAB6C7.4000509@redhat.com> References: <437D3B1D.7050007@redhat.com> <43BAB6C7.4000509@redhat.com> Message-ID: <1136317302.19117.12.camel@localhost.localdomain> On Tue, 2006-01-03 at 12:39 -0500, Tim Burke wrote: > I hope you all had a great holiday. Sorry for the delay, and a sincere > thanks to all who participated in the survey. The results of this > survey are hung off the fedoraproject.org marketing page under a > feedback section. > > http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Marketing/Fedora I would highly recommend all DocMonkeys check out the results -- at least the summary -- listed on the URL above. Of special concern for us: A. "Improve documentation and release notes" was priority #3 on the list of 12, right behind "Improve overall stability" and "Implement new features." B. Documentation appeared on the performance list in position #11 of 11. Yikes. 161 responses considered documentation performance as "strong good to excellent," while 277 called it "poor." Certainly we all know that we're hampered somewhat by a lower level of involvement from the community than, say, Fedora Extras. But surely we have made and can continue to make improvements. Let the discussion commence! I think this should be on our agenda for today's FDSCo meeting if possible, so some initial responses can make it to the minutes posted here later tonight/tomorrow. -- Paul W. Frields, RHCE http://paul.frields.org/ gpg fingerprint: 3DA6 A0AC 6D58 FEC4 0233 5906 ACDB C937 BD11 3717 Fedora Documentation Project: http://fedora.redhat.com/projects/docs/ -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: signature.asc Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 189 bytes Desc: This is a digitally signed message part URL: From kwade at redhat.com Tue Jan 3 20:51:47 2006 From: kwade at redhat.com (Karsten Wade) Date: Tue, 03 Jan 2006 12:51:47 -0800 Subject: Fedora survey results In-Reply-To: <1136317302.19117.12.camel@localhost.localdomain> References: <437D3B1D.7050007@redhat.com> <43BAB6C7.4000509@redhat.com> <1136317302.19117.12.camel@localhost.localdomain> Message-ID: <1136321507.8443.51.camel@erato.phig.org> On Tue, 2006-01-03 at 14:41 -0500, Paul W. Frields wrote: > On Tue, 2006-01-03 at 12:39 -0500, Tim Burke wrote: > > I hope you all had a great holiday. Sorry for the delay, and a sincere > > thanks to all who participated in the survey. The results of this > > survey are hung off the fedoraproject.org marketing page under a > > feedback section. > > > > http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Marketing/Fedora > > I would highly recommend all DocMonkeys check out the results -- at > least the summary -- listed on the URL above. Of special concern for > us: > > A. "Improve documentation and release notes" was priority #3 on the > list of 12, right behind "Improve overall stability" and "Implement new > features." > > B. Documentation appeared on the performance list in position #11 of > 11. Yikes. 161 responses considered documentation performance as > "strong good to excellent," while 277 called it "poor." > > Certainly we all know that we're hampered somewhat by a lower level of > involvement from the community than, say, Fedora Extras. But surely we > have made and can continue to make improvements. Let the discussion > commence! I'm both pleased and upset by the results. Upset because it confirms what I've known, which is that we're falling short of the need and it shows. Pleased because ... well, the same reason. What we're doing matters to people, and they want more of it done right. I would like to consider this as a marketing opportunity: "X% of you think that Fedora documentation could use serious improvement. Want to help?" "Think Fedora documentation sucks? You can make it suck less." > I think this should be on our agenda for today's FDSCo meeting if > possible, so some initial responses can make it to the minutes posted > here later tonight/tomorrow. It's on the agenda, we'll maybe move it up the list? - Karsten -- Karsten Wade, RHCE * Sr. Tech Writer * http://people.redhat.com/kwade/ gpg fingerprint: 2680 DBFD D968 3141 0115 5F1B D992 0E06 AD0E 0C41 Content Services Fedora Documentation Project http://www.redhat.com/docs http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/DocsProject -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: signature.asc Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 189 bytes Desc: This is a digitally signed message part URL: From kwade at redhat.com Tue Jan 3 20:53:51 2006 From: kwade at redhat.com (Karsten Wade) Date: Tue, 03 Jan 2006 12:53:51 -0800 Subject: Attempt to Assist in the generation of the FC5 Installation Guide In-Reply-To: <1136315786.19117.3.camel@localhost.localdomain> References: <1136227800.16926.20.camel@compaqlaptop.sqq89.com> <1136313895.8443.20.camel@erato.phig.org> <1136315786.19117.3.camel@localhost.localdomain> Message-ID: <1136321631.8443.55.camel@erato.phig.org> On Tue, 2006-01-03 at 14:16 -0500, Paul W. Frields wrote: > > I had suggested this to Scott also in IRC. I think the process might > work better (and be less exhausting for Scott!) if we use the Wiki page > as a place simply to outline and make terse notes. Then Stuart and I > can do the actual "longhand" writing in CVS, and Scott can view the > results at the webtest host to monitor and critique our progress. This > also keeps Scott from having to learn much about our style guidelines > and cuts down on our workload too, since it's easier (I think) for us to > write straight into CVS rather than convert -> merge (yuck) -> edit for > style. Just my thoughts, waiting for others to comment... +1 Whatever works for you three, but that seems elegant to me. 14 January is the freeze date for content that relates to FC5 test2. If you want to do a coincidental test release of the Installation Guide, we can surely get a link in the test2 announcement. - Karsten -- Karsten Wade, RHCE * Sr. Tech Writer * http://people.redhat.com/kwade/ gpg fingerprint: 2680 DBFD D968 3141 0115 5F1B D992 0E06 AD0E 0C41 Content Services Fedora Documentation Project http://www.redhat.com/docs http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/DocsProject -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: signature.asc Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 189 bytes Desc: This is a digitally signed message part URL: From sonar_guy at c-ccom.com Tue Jan 3 20:59:41 2006 From: sonar_guy at c-ccom.com (Scott Glaser) Date: Tue, 03 Jan 2006 15:59:41 -0500 Subject: Attempt to Assist in the generation of the FC5 Installation Guide In-Reply-To: <1136315786.19117.3.camel@localhost.localdomain> References: <1136227800.16926.20.camel@compaqlaptop.sqq89.com> <1136313895.8443.20.camel@erato.phig.org> <1136315786.19117.3.camel@localhost.localdomain> Message-ID: <1136321981.2873.7.camel@compaqlaptop.sqq89.com> Ok, I think I can actually work on the IG in the XML format, there is one question though. I have checked out the Installation Guide from CVS to work on locally, when I check it back in there is a process of approval prior to being compiled into the actual docs correct? Please excuse my newness to this, I have never dealt with CVS before. -- Scott Glaser Fedora Core User Web - http://fedoraunity.org/ Key fingerprint = 61F5 C7DF 2F63 4A53 44D2 B9BE 3841 EA4F 5990 00BD -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: signature.asc Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 189 bytes Desc: This is a digitally signed message part URL: From kwade at redhat.com Tue Jan 3 21:05:21 2006 From: kwade at redhat.com (Karsten Wade) Date: Tue, 03 Jan 2006 13:05:21 -0800 Subject: Attempt to Assist in the generation of the FC5 Installation Guide In-Reply-To: <1136321981.2873.7.camel@compaqlaptop.sqq89.com> References: <1136227800.16926.20.camel@compaqlaptop.sqq89.com> <1136313895.8443.20.camel@erato.phig.org> <1136315786.19117.3.camel@localhost.localdomain> <1136321981.2873.7.camel@compaqlaptop.sqq89.com> Message-ID: <1136322321.8443.61.camel@erato.phig.org> On Tue, 2006-01-03 at 15:59 -0500, Scott Glaser wrote: > Ok, I think I can actually work on the IG in the XML format, there is > one question though. I have checked out the Installation Guide from CVS > to work on locally, when I check it back in there is a process of > approval prior to being compiled into the actual docs correct? Presuming you have write access to the CVS module (allowed in the ACL), there is no other step of approval for content going into the module. This only produces the draft document, however, which is viewable at: The actual publication at: http://fedora.redhat.com/docs/fedora-install-guide-en/ does go through an approval process. Does that answer your question? - Karsten -- Karsten Wade, RHCE * Sr. Tech Writer * http://people.redhat.com/kwade/ gpg fingerprint: 2680 DBFD D968 3141 0115 5F1B D992 0E06 AD0E 0C41 Content Services Fedora Documentation Project http://www.redhat.com/docs http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/DocsProject -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: signature.asc Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 189 bytes Desc: This is a digitally signed message part URL: From sundaram at redhat.com Tue Jan 3 21:05:31 2006 From: sundaram at redhat.com (Rahul Sundaram) Date: Wed, 04 Jan 2006 02:35:31 +0530 Subject: Attempt to Assist in the generation of the FC5 Installation Guide In-Reply-To: <1136321981.2873.7.camel@compaqlaptop.sqq89.com> References: <1136227800.16926.20.camel@compaqlaptop.sqq89.com> <1136313895.8443.20.camel@erato.phig.org> <1136315786.19117.3.camel@localhost.localdomain> <1136321981.2873.7.camel@compaqlaptop.sqq89.com> Message-ID: <43BAE71B.7060302@redhat.com> Scott Glaser wrote: >Ok, I think I can actually work on the IG in the XML format, there is >one question though. I have checked out the Installation Guide from CVS >to work on locally, when I check it back in there is a process of >approval prior to being compiled into the actual docs correct? > >Please excuse my newness to this, I have never dealt with CVS before. > > > > Read these for detailed guidelines. http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/DocsProject/CvsUsage http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/DocsProject/CvsHelp From sonar_guy at c-ccom.com Tue Jan 3 21:10:13 2006 From: sonar_guy at c-ccom.com (Scott Glaser) Date: Tue, 03 Jan 2006 16:10:13 -0500 Subject: Attempt to Assist in the generation of the FC5 Installation Guide In-Reply-To: <1136321631.8443.55.camel@erato.phig.org> References: <1136227800.16926.20.camel@compaqlaptop.sqq89.com> <1136313895.8443.20.camel@erato.phig.org> <1136315786.19117.3.camel@localhost.localdomain> <1136321631.8443.55.camel@erato.phig.org> Message-ID: <1136322613.2873.14.camel@compaqlaptop.sqq89.com> On Tue, 2006-01-03 at 12:53 -0800, Karsten Wade wrote: > On Tue, 2006-01-03 at 14:16 -0500, Paul W. Frields wrote: > > > > I had suggested this to Scott also in IRC. I think the process might > > work better (and be less exhausting for Scott!) if we use the Wiki page > > as a place simply to outline and make terse notes. Then Stuart and I > > can do the actual "longhand" writing in CVS, and Scott can view the > > results at the webtest host to monitor and critique our progress. This > > also keeps Scott from having to learn much about our style guidelines > > and cuts down on our workload too, since it's easier (I think) for us to > > write straight into CVS rather than convert -> merge (yuck) -> edit for > > style. Just my thoughts, waiting for others to comment... > > +1 > > Whatever works for you three, but that seems elegant to me. > > 14 January is the freeze date for content that relates to FC5 test2. If > you want to do a coincidental test release of the Installation Guide, we > can surely get a link in the test2 announcement. > > - Karsten > -- > fedora-docs-list mailing list > fedora-docs-list at redhat.com > To unsubscribe: > https://www.redhat.com/mailman/listinfo/fedora-docs-list Lets shoot for FC5 test3, I need to learn how to edit in XML and get the data I have already put into the correct format. Also I will need some more time to run through the other installation methods with rawhide and capture the remaining screen shots that I do not currently have. Based on that I do not believe it is currently feasible to have a working document by 14 January so test3 would be much more realistic. -- Scott Glaser Fedora Core User Web - http://fedoraunity.org/ Key fingerprint = 61F5 C7DF 2F63 4A53 44D2 B9BE 3841 EA4F 5990 00BD -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: signature.asc Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 189 bytes Desc: This is a digitally signed message part URL: From kwade at redhat.com Tue Jan 3 21:11:13 2006 From: kwade at redhat.com (Karsten Wade) Date: Tue, 03 Jan 2006 13:11:13 -0800 Subject: Attempt to Assist in the generation of the FC5 Installation Guide In-Reply-To: <1136322321.8443.61.camel@erato.phig.org> References: <1136227800.16926.20.camel@compaqlaptop.sqq89.com> <1136313895.8443.20.camel@erato.phig.org> <1136315786.19117.3.camel@localhost.localdomain> <1136321981.2873.7.camel@compaqlaptop.sqq89.com> <1136322321.8443.61.camel@erato.phig.org> Message-ID: <1136322673.8443.63.camel@erato.phig.org> On Tue, 2006-01-03 at 13:05 -0800, Karsten Wade wrote: > On Tue, 2006-01-03 at 15:59 -0500, Scott Glaser wrote: > > Ok, I think I can actually work on the IG in the XML format, there is > > one question though. I have checked out the Installation Guide from CVS > > to work on locally, when I check it back in there is a process of > > approval prior to being compiled into the actual docs correct? > > Presuming you have write access to the CVS module (allowed in the ACL), > there is no other step of approval for content going into the module. > > This only produces the draft document, however, which is viewable at: http://webtest.fedora.redhat.com/docs/fedora-install-guide/ :-D > > The actual publication at: > > http://fedora.redhat.com/docs/fedora-install-guide-en/ > > does go through an approval process. > > Does that answer your question? > > - Karsten > -- > fedora-docs-list mailing list > fedora-docs-list at redhat.com > To unsubscribe: > https://www.redhat.com/mailman/listinfo/fedora-docs-list -- Karsten Wade, RHCE * Sr. Tech Writer * http://people.redhat.com/kwade/ gpg fingerprint: 2680 DBFD D968 3141 0115 5F1B D992 0E06 AD0E 0C41 Content Services Fedora Documentation Project http://www.redhat.com/docs http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/DocsProject -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: signature.asc Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 189 bytes Desc: This is a digitally signed message part URL: From sonar_guy at c-ccom.com Tue Jan 3 21:17:46 2006 From: sonar_guy at c-ccom.com (Scott Glaser) Date: Tue, 03 Jan 2006 16:17:46 -0500 Subject: Attempt to Assist in the generation of the FC5 Installation Guide In-Reply-To: <1136322321.8443.61.camel@erato.phig.org> References: <1136227800.16926.20.camel@compaqlaptop.sqq89.com> <1136313895.8443.20.camel@erato.phig.org> <1136315786.19117.3.camel@localhost.localdomain> <1136321981.2873.7.camel@compaqlaptop.sqq89.com> <1136322321.8443.61.camel@erato.phig.org> Message-ID: <1136323066.2873.21.camel@compaqlaptop.sqq89.com> On Tue, 2006-01-03 at 13:05 -0800, Karsten Wade wrote: > On Tue, 2006-01-03 at 15:59 -0500, Scott Glaser wrote: > > Ok, I think I can actually work on the IG in the XML format, there is > > one question though. I have checked out the Installation Guide from CVS > > to work on locally, when I check it back in there is a process of > > approval prior to being compiled into the actual docs correct? > > Presuming you have write access to the CVS module (allowed in the ACL), > there is no other step of approval for content going into the module. > > This only produces the draft document, however, which is viewable at: > > > The actual publication at: > > http://fedora.redhat.com/docs/fedora-install-guide-en/ > > does go through an approval process. > > Does that answer your question? > > - Karsten > -- > fedora-docs-list mailing list > fedora-docs-list at redhat.com > To unsubscribe: > https://www.redhat.com/mailman/listinfo/fedora-docs-list Yes that answers my question. I am not certain if I have write privileges or not. The draft document should be viewable at http://webtest.fedora.redhat.com/docs/fedora-install-guide/en/ I plan to update the wiki with the updated outline and go from there, as long as there are no issues. -- Scott Glaser Fedora Core User Web - http://fedoraunity.org/ Key fingerprint = 61F5 C7DF 2F63 4A53 44D2 B9BE 3841 EA4F 5990 00BD -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: signature.asc Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 189 bytes Desc: This is a digitally signed message part URL: From kwade at redhat.com Tue Jan 3 22:09:25 2006 From: kwade at redhat.com (Karsten Wade) Date: Tue, 03 Jan 2006 14:09:25 -0800 Subject: scriptwriters, video products, audio fiends, voice talent -- a call Message-ID: <1136326165.8443.76.camel@erato.phig.org> You can put your theatrical talents to work for Fedora. 1. Help produce a Fedora Tour video using entirely FLOSS screencasting technology 2. Create a repeatable screencast process 3. ??? 4. Watch as Fedora documentation is loaded with screencasts documenting how to do all kinds of really nifty stuff! If you have an interest in this, reply back here. We've been discussing this on fedora-marketing-list[1] and are ready to start production. - Karsten [1] Thread begins here: http://www.redhat.com/archives/fedora-marketing-list/2005-December/msg00051.html -- Karsten Wade, RHCE * Sr. Tech Writer * http://people.redhat.com/kwade/ gpg fingerprint: 2680 DBFD D968 3141 0115 5F1B D992 0E06 AD0E 0C41 Content Services Fedora Documentation Project http://www.redhat.com/docs http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/DocsProject -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: signature.asc Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 189 bytes Desc: This is a digitally signed message part URL: From sundaram at redhat.com Tue Jan 3 22:16:37 2006 From: sundaram at redhat.com (Rahul Sundaram) Date: Wed, 04 Jan 2006 03:46:37 +0530 Subject: scriptwriters, video products, audio fiends, voice talent -- a call In-Reply-To: <1136326165.8443.76.camel@erato.phig.org> References: <1136326165.8443.76.camel@erato.phig.org> Message-ID: <43BAF7C5.8080606@redhat.com> Karsten Wade wrote: >You can put your theatrical talents to work for Fedora. > >1. Help produce a Fedora Tour video using entirely FLOSS screencasting >technology > >2. Create a repeatable screencast process > >3. ??? > >4. Watch as Fedora documentation is loaded with screencasts documenting >how to do all kinds of really nifty stuff! > >If you have an interest in this, reply back here. We've been discussing >this on fedora-marketing-list[1] and are ready to start production. > >- Karsten >[1] Thread begins here: >http://www.redhat.com/archives/fedora-marketing-list/2005-December/msg00051.html > > Also http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Tours for some initial results. regards Rahul From stuart at elsn.org Tue Jan 3 23:52:04 2006 From: stuart at elsn.org (Stuart Ellis) Date: Tue, 03 Jan 2006 23:52:04 +0000 Subject: Minutes of FDSCo Meeting 03 January 2006 Message-ID: <1136332324.2857.39.camel@localhost.localdomain> Attending: --------- Karsten Wade (quaid) Tommy Reynolds (megacoder) Paul Frields (stickster) Gavin Henry (G2) Stuart Ellis (elliss) Schedule of Tasks: ------------------ http://www.fedoraproject.org/wiki/DocsProject/FedoraDocsSchedule Highlights: ----------- * Paul and Tommy: Packaging infrastructure work is close to completion. Tommy will be reviewing the Makefile, and Paul will be updating the Documentation Guide once the process is finalised. By default, the HTML files within the RPM are marked with the "draft" watermark - a build option will be documented that overrides this. * Paul: Scott Glaser has volunteered to revise the opening chapters of the Installation Guide, to make them more approachable for inexperienced users. * Stuart: Material for FC5 Installation Guide is mostly complete. Section on package selection will be updated with test2. * Karsten: Call for volunteers to go out, to build screencasts for Fedora. Full IRC Log: ------------- https://www.redhat.com/archives/fedora-dsco-list/2006-January/msg00001.html -- Stuart Ellis stuart at elsn.org Fedora Documentation Project: http://fedora.redhat.com/projects/docs/ GPG key ID: 7098ABEA GPG key fingerprint: 68B0 E291 FB19 C845 E60E 9569 292E E365 7098 ABEA -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: signature.asc Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 189 bytes Desc: This is a digitally signed message part URL: From dpniner at dpniner.net Wed Jan 4 00:44:57 2006 From: dpniner at dpniner.net (David-Paul Niner) Date: Tue, 3 Jan 2006 19:44:57 -0500 Subject: Fedora survey results Message-ID: <95968D616ABEED43971826958475ACE62E36@meg.home.dpniner.net> -----Original Message----- From: fedora-docs-list-bounces at redhat.com [mailto:fedora-docs-list-bounces at redhat.com] On Behalf Of Karsten Wade Sent: Tuesday, January 03, 2006 3:52 PM To: For participants of the Documentation Project Subject: Re: Fedora survey results On Tue, 2006-01-03 at 14:41 -0500, Paul W. Frields wrote: > On Tue, 2006-01-03 at 12:39 -0500, Tim Burke wrote: > > I hope you all had a great holiday. Sorry for the delay, and a sincere > > thanks to all who participated in the survey. The results of this > > survey are hung off the fedoraproject.org marketing page under a > > feedback section. > > > > http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Marketing/Fedora > > I would highly recommend all DocMonkeys check out the results -- at > least the summary -- listed on the URL above. Of special concern for > us: > > A. "Improve documentation and release notes" was priority #3 on the > list of 12, right behind "Improve overall stability" and "Implement new > features." > > B. Documentation appeared on the performance list in position #11 of > 11. Yikes. 161 responses considered documentation performance as > "strong good to excellent," while 277 called it "poor." > > Certainly we all know that we're hampered somewhat by a lower level of > involvement from the community than, say, Fedora Extras. But surely we > have made and can continue to make improvements. Let the discussion > commence! I'm both pleased and upset by the results. Upset because it confirms what I've known, which is that we're falling short of the need and it shows. Pleased because ... well, the same reason. What we're doing matters to people, and they want more of it done right. I would like to consider this as a marketing opportunity: "X% of you think that Fedora documentation could use serious improvement. Want to help?" "Think Fedora documentation sucks? You can make it suck less." > I think this should be on our agenda for today's FDSCo meeting if > possible, so some initial responses can make it to the minutes posted > here later tonight/tomorrow. It's on the agenda, we'll maybe move it up the list? - Karsten -- Karsten Wade, RHCE * Sr. Tech Writer * http://people.redhat.com/kwade/ gpg fingerprint: 2680 DBFD D968 3141 0115 5F1B D992 0E06 AD0E 0C41 Content Services Fedora Documentation Project http://www.redhat.com/docs http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/DocsProject -- I realize I'm an outsider here, so I'll keep my response short. I volunteered a number of weeks back to work on some documentation (The RPM manual, IIRC), and was told that someone would be divvying up the sections and getting in touch with me soon. So I waited. Not being incredibly familiar with those involved with the docs projects I didn't feel comfortable just barging in and taking over editing responsibilities. No one got in touch. I suppose one could fault me for not being more assertive, but with a project of this size it's difficult to know precisely where "the new guy" should position him- or herself. I'm just wondering if there is anyone else out there on the fringes offering to help but just doesn't know where to start. The marketing idea is keen, and could produce returns, but once you get the fish on the hook how, precisely, do you reel him to shore? DP From sundaram at redhat.com Wed Jan 4 01:03:37 2006 From: sundaram at redhat.com (Rahul Sundaram) Date: Wed, 04 Jan 2006 06:33:37 +0530 Subject: Fedora survey results In-Reply-To: <95968D616ABEED43971826958475ACE62E36@meg.home.dpniner.net> References: <95968D616ABEED43971826958475ACE62E36@meg.home.dpniner.net> Message-ID: <43BB1EE9.6060702@redhat.com> Hi >I would like to consider this as a marketing opportunity: > >"X% of you think that Fedora documentation could use serious >improvement. Want to help?" > >"Think Fedora documentation sucks? You can make it suck less." > > We need to differentiate between document that sucks and documents that simply dont exist. I think people are complaining about the perception of non existent documentation. What end users generally consider Fedora documentation is available in http://fedora.redhat.com/docs but thats not the whole story. There are thousands of documentation available in man, info pages and /usr/share/docs. Also published books. I would go back to my idea of making a documentation portal which combines formal Fedora documentation, the results of rpm -qd (%docs in the spec) of all packages from the build system published in revisions, published books in http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Books, work in progress docs (http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/DocsRawhide) and so on into a easily searchable and referenceable format. Throwing in links to RHEL docs (http://redhat.com/docs) cant hurt either since most of it is usually applicable to Fedora users too. . We can potentially identify the quality of the existing formal docs and understand better what end users are looking for in a separate survey. Then we of course need to get more contributors to fill in areas that are either not documented or poorly done and go ahead and market the opportunity based on survey results. regards Rahul From ghenry at suretecsystems.com Wed Jan 4 10:17:55 2006 From: ghenry at suretecsystems.com (Gavin Henry) Date: Wed, 4 Jan 2006 10:17:55 -0000 (GMT) Subject: Minutes of FDSCo Meeting 03 January 2006 In-Reply-To: <1136332324.2857.39.camel@localhost.localdomain> References: <1136332324.2857.39.camel@localhost.localdomain> Message-ID: <57675.192.168.100.90.1136369875.squirrel@webmail.suretecsystems.com> Sorry, was there on IRC, but not physically. Had a business meeting. Will add comments to the list. Ta. -- Kind Regards, Gavin Henry. Managing Director. T +44 (0) 1224 279484 M +44 (0) 7930 323266 F +44 (0) 1224 742001 E ghenry at suretecsystems.com Open Source. Open Solutions(tm). http://www.suretecsystems.com/ > Attending: > --------- > > Karsten Wade (quaid) > Tommy Reynolds (megacoder) > Paul Frields (stickster) > Gavin Henry (G2) > Stuart Ellis (elliss) > > > Schedule of Tasks: > ------------------ > > http://www.fedoraproject.org/wiki/DocsProject/FedoraDocsSchedule > > > Highlights: > ----------- > > * Paul and Tommy: Packaging infrastructure work is close to completion. > Tommy will be reviewing the Makefile, and Paul will be updating the > Documentation Guide once the process is finalised. > > By default, the HTML files within the RPM are marked with the "draft" > watermark - a build option will be documented that overrides this. > > * Paul: Scott Glaser has volunteered to revise the opening chapters of > the Installation Guide, to make them more approachable for inexperienced > users. > > * Stuart: Material for FC5 Installation Guide is mostly complete. > Section on package selection will be updated with test2. > > * Karsten: Call for volunteers to go out, to build screencasts for > Fedora. > > > Full IRC Log: > ------------- > > https://www.redhat.com/archives/fedora-dsco-list/2006-January/msg00001.html > > -- > > Stuart Ellis > > stuart at elsn.org > > Fedora Documentation Project: http://fedora.redhat.com/projects/docs/ > > GPG key ID: 7098ABEA > GPG key fingerprint: 68B0 E291 FB19 C845 E60E 9569 292E E365 7098 ABEA > -- > fedora-docs-list mailing list > fedora-docs-list at redhat.com > To unsubscribe: > https://www.redhat.com/mailman/listinfo/fedora-docs-list From sonar_guy at c-ccom.com Wed Jan 4 10:56:01 2006 From: sonar_guy at c-ccom.com (Scott Glaser) Date: Wed, 04 Jan 2006 05:56:01 -0500 Subject: Attempt to Assist in the generation of the FC5 Installation Guide In-Reply-To: <1136323066.2873.21.camel@compaqlaptop.sqq89.com> References: <1136227800.16926.20.camel@compaqlaptop.sqq89.com> <1136313895.8443.20.camel@erato.phig.org> <1136315786.19117.3.camel@localhost.localdomain> <1136321981.2873.7.camel@compaqlaptop.sqq89.com> <1136322321.8443.61.camel@erato.phig.org> <1136323066.2873.21.camel@compaqlaptop.sqq89.com> Message-ID: <1136372161.24101.4.camel@compaqlaptop.sqq89.com> Ok, Patrick got me setup last night with full CVS access. I now have another question, would it be better to setup a branch of the Install Guide so that I can submit the changes directly? I believe that this makes sense. -- Scott Glaser Fedora Core User Web - http://fedoraunity.org/ Key fingerprint = 61F5 C7DF 2F63 4A53 44D2 B9BE 3841 EA4F 5990 00BD -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: signature.asc Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 189 bytes Desc: This is a digitally signed message part URL: From stickster at gmail.com Wed Jan 4 12:58:29 2006 From: stickster at gmail.com (Paul W. Frields) Date: Wed, 04 Jan 2006 07:58:29 -0500 Subject: Fedora survey results In-Reply-To: <95968D616ABEED43971826958475ACE62E36@meg.home.dpniner.net> References: <95968D616ABEED43971826958475ACE62E36@meg.home.dpniner.net> Message-ID: <1136379509.10076.40.camel@localhost.localdomain> On Tue, 2006-01-03 at 19:44 -0500, David-Paul Niner wrote: > I realize I'm an outsider here, so I'll keep my response short. > > I volunteered a number of weeks back to work on some documentation (The > RPM manual, IIRC), and was told that someone would be divvying up the > sections and getting in touch with me soon. > > So I waited. Not being incredibly familiar with those involved with > the docs projects I didn't feel comfortable just barging in and taking > over editing responsibilities. > > No one got in touch. I looked back through my Gmail archives (thank you, Google!) and see that Paul Nasrat was the person who had communicated with you. I am CC'ing him on this email so he can get back into the loop for the RPM Guide massage with which you kindly offered help. I also see that Karsten was helping you with some problems you experienced getting your official Fedora account working. Sorry you were having problems; normally the process seems to work fine, but every once in a while a contributor's specific configuration, or an ambiguity in the procedure, makes it more difficult than it needs to be. What's your status with regard to that account at this point? > I suppose one could fault me for not being more assertive, but with a > project of this size it's difficult to know precisely where "the new > guy" should position him- or herself. As a volunteer project, we do have to depend on new folks to sort of jump in with both feet... but it can be a daunting prospect! It wasn't very long ago that I was in the exact same position as you. Some of the older hands helped me out when I had questions about Emacs, DocBook XML, and so forth, and it wasn't long before I was very comfortable with the tools. As for positioning? Well, it's mostly up to you! I can think of several areas that need attention right now -- several of the drafts at http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Docs/Drafts in fact! People are drafting on the wiki so that you don't have to learn all the cool tools we used just to get started. Eventually you will probably want to learn them, because, well dang, they're cool, after all! And they make it easier for you to get MORE RESULTS out of LESS WORK. And on a volunteer project, that's a win-win. But for now, just pitching in anywhere is a big help. I am currently starting work on a brand new Documentation Guide that will build on, but mostly supplant, the existing one. A good DocGuide will make it easier for new people to start, since it will lay out in plain English everything you need to know to get involved. > I'm just wondering if there is anyone else out there on the fringes > offering to help but just doesn't know where to start. > > The marketing idea is keen, and could produce returns, but once you get > the fish on the hook how, precisely, do you reel him to shore? You've done the right thing by posting this response. Feel free to pester! To jostle! To annoy! Keep in mind that, just like you, most of the folks around here are generously giving of their free time, and it's sometimes hard to squeeze in extra tasks when it's not putting bread on the table. Don't be afraid to "tickle" someone nicely, especially when they've promised you some bit of work. It's a sign from you that you are motivated, energetic, and eager to help out -- all of which are necessities for a thriving volunteer community. To you, David-Paul, and especially to all "lurkers" out there who are worried how to get involved, or whether they might make a misstep: FEAR NOT! This is not a tight-knit "old-boy" community of stone-cold experts ready to snap off your head if you don't know what you're doing. We try to be the kinder, gentler subproject, and people here are very friendly. We know that this is a part of Fedora that people might want to get involved in because it seems, well, less like a minefield of technical pitfalls than some other subprojects. There's an old adage with which I have a love/hate relationship, because people misuse it so much -- "Better to keep one's mouth shut and be thought a fool, than to open it and remove all doubt." That's NOT what we're all about at the FDP. That old saw is about offering opinions when you're uninformed -- it's NOT about asking for help when you're looking for a clue. I can guarantee that people here want to give out clues and don't hold anything against folks who ask for them. (FWIW, I'm living proof, since I learned everything I know about docs, which admittedly is not much compared to a lot of people, from other FDP'ers.) So basically, any and all input is appreciated and all offers of help warmly accepted. If you ever think we've ignored you, say so! I promise it's a simple case of oversight and not a snub. OK, can you feel the love? I can, oh yeah baby! (Awright, turn off that Barry White, that's just icky.) *needle scratch* -- Paul W. Frields, RHCE http://paul.frields.org/ gpg fingerprint: 3DA6 A0AC 6D58 FEC4 0233 5906 ACDB C937 BD11 3717 Fedora Documentation Project: http://fedora.redhat.com/projects/docs/ -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: signature.asc Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 189 bytes Desc: This is a digitally signed message part URL: From stickster at gmail.com Wed Jan 4 13:57:32 2006 From: stickster at gmail.com (Paul W. Frields) Date: Wed, 04 Jan 2006 08:57:32 -0500 Subject: Attempt to Assist in the generation of the FC5 Installation Guide In-Reply-To: <1136372161.24101.4.camel@compaqlaptop.sqq89.com> References: <1136227800.16926.20.camel@compaqlaptop.sqq89.com> <1136313895.8443.20.camel@erato.phig.org> <1136315786.19117.3.camel@localhost.localdomain> <1136321981.2873.7.camel@compaqlaptop.sqq89.com> <1136322321.8443.61.camel@erato.phig.org> <1136323066.2873.21.camel@compaqlaptop.sqq89.com> <1136372161.24101.4.camel@compaqlaptop.sqq89.com> Message-ID: <1136383052.10076.44.camel@localhost.localdomain> On Wed, 2006-01-04 at 05:56 -0500, Scott Glaser wrote: > Ok, Patrick got me setup last night with full CVS access. I now have > another question, would it be better to setup a branch of the Install > Guide so that I can submit the changes directly? I believe that this > makes sense. I think this makes sense, but I would leave this up to Stuart. The nice thing about a branch is that it's the natural way to get the "good stuff" folded back into HEAD. I think, though, that for this strategy to function well, our webtest host needs to be able to build other branches. As I recall, this came up at last night's FDSCo meeting. Did anyone have any thoughts on how to accomplish this? The "bulkbuild" script in our docs-common/bin/ is the starting point, so if someone wants to submit a patch to the list, it would be appreciated. -- Paul W. Frields, RHCE http://paul.frields.org/ gpg fingerprint: 3DA6 A0AC 6D58 FEC4 0233 5906 ACDB C937 BD11 3717 Fedora Documentation Project: http://fedora.redhat.com/projects/docs/ -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: signature.asc Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 189 bytes Desc: This is a digitally signed message part URL: From dpniner at dpniner.net Wed Jan 4 18:05:00 2006 From: dpniner at dpniner.net (David-Paul Niner) Date: Wed, 4 Jan 2006 13:05:00 -0500 Subject: Fedora survey results Message-ID: <95968D616ABEED43971826958475ACE62E38@meg.home.dpniner.net> I looked back through my Gmail archives (thank you, Google!) and see that Paul Nasrat was the person who had communicated with you. I am CC'ing him on this email so he can get back into the loop for the RPM Guide massage with which you kindly offered help. I also see that Karsten was helping you with some problems you experienced getting your official Fedora account working. Sorry you were having problems; normally the process seems to work fine, but every once in a while a contributor's specific configuration, or an ambiguity in the procedure, makes it more difficult than it needs to be. What's your status with regard to that account at this point? -- Paul W. Frields, RHCE http://paul.frields.org/ gpg fingerprint: 3DA6 A0AC 6D58 FEC4 0233 5906 ACDB C937 BD11 3717 Fedora Documentation Project: http://fedora.redhat.com/projects/docs/ I've actually had to move away from using that particular account due to the massive amount of spam it's attracted, so I'll have to update my account with the new email address and public key information. I'm leaving town for the next few days but will be back for the start of classes next Monday, so I should be able to jump on the wagon then. BTW--Karsten was a big help in getting the pub key situation resolved. David-Paul Niner, RHCE From stuart at elsn.org Wed Jan 4 19:42:42 2006 From: stuart at elsn.org (Stuart Ellis) Date: Wed, 04 Jan 2006 19:42:42 +0000 Subject: Attempt to Assist in the generation of the FC5 Installation Guide In-Reply-To: <1136383052.10076.44.camel@localhost.localdomain> References: <1136227800.16926.20.camel@compaqlaptop.sqq89.com> <1136313895.8443.20.camel@erato.phig.org> <1136315786.19117.3.camel@localhost.localdomain> <1136321981.2873.7.camel@compaqlaptop.sqq89.com> <1136322321.8443.61.camel@erato.phig.org> <1136323066.2873.21.camel@compaqlaptop.sqq89.com> <1136372161.24101.4.camel@compaqlaptop.sqq89.com> <1136383052.10076.44.camel@localhost.localdomain> Message-ID: <1136403762.2862.37.camel@localhost.localdomain> On Wed, 2006-01-04 at 08:57 -0500, Paul W. Frields wrote: > On Wed, 2006-01-04 at 05:56 -0500, Scott Glaser wrote: > > Ok, Patrick got me setup last night with full CVS access. I now have > > another question, would it be better to setup a branch of the Install > > Guide so that I can submit the changes directly? I believe that this > > makes sense. > > I think this makes sense, but I would leave this up to Stuart. The nice > thing about a branch is that it's the natural way to get the "good > stuff" folded back into HEAD. +1. Having looked at Scott's mockup, I think that it's probably going to be easier to work on separate copies of fedora-install-guide-intro-en.xml and fedora-install-guide-beginninginstallation-en.xml, rather incrementally patching the existing files. Barring the addition of screenshots and edit/review, the current versions of these files are stable, so there is no issue with keeping them in place until we want to replace them. -- Stuart Ellis stuart at elsn.org Fedora Documentation Project: http://fedora.redhat.com/projects/docs/ GPG key ID: 7098ABEA GPG key fingerprint: 68B0 E291 FB19 C845 E60E 9569 292E E365 7098 ABEA -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: signature.asc Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 189 bytes Desc: This is a digitally signed message part URL: From sonar_guy at c-ccom.com Wed Jan 4 20:14:13 2006 From: sonar_guy at c-ccom.com (Scott Glaser) Date: Wed, 04 Jan 2006 15:14:13 -0500 Subject: Attempt to Assist in the generation of the FC5 Installation Guide In-Reply-To: <1136403762.2862.37.camel@localhost.localdomain> References: <1136227800.16926.20.camel@compaqlaptop.sqq89.com> <1136313895.8443.20.camel@erato.phig.org> <1136315786.19117.3.camel@localhost.localdomain> <1136321981.2873.7.camel@compaqlaptop.sqq89.com> <1136322321.8443.61.camel@erato.phig.org> <1136323066.2873.21.camel@compaqlaptop.sqq89.com> <1136372161.24101.4.camel@compaqlaptop.sqq89.com> <1136383052.10076.44.camel@localhost.localdomain> <1136403762.2862.37.camel@localhost.localdomain> Message-ID: <1136405653.24101.6.camel@compaqlaptop.sqq89.com> On Wed, 2006-01-04 at 19:42 +0000, Stuart Ellis wrote: > On Wed, 2006-01-04 at 08:57 -0500, Paul W. Frields wrote: > > On Wed, 2006-01-04 at 05:56 -0500, Scott Glaser wrote: > > > Ok, Patrick got me setup last night with full CVS access. I now have > > > another question, would it be better to setup a branch of the Install > > > Guide so that I can submit the changes directly? I believe that this > > > makes sense. > > > > I think this makes sense, but I would leave this up to Stuart. The nice > > thing about a branch is that it's the natural way to get the "good > > stuff" folded back into HEAD. > > +1. > > Having looked at Scott's mockup, I think that it's probably going to be > easier to work on separate copies of fedora-install-guide-intro-en.xml > and fedora-install-guide-beginninginstallation-en.xml, rather > incrementally patching the existing files. > > Barring the addition of screenshots and edit/review, the current > versions of these files are stable, so there is no issue with keeping > them in place until we want to replace them. So go with a branch or continue working the way I am now working with a local copy of the ig? -- Scott Glaser Fedora Core User Web - http://fedoraunity.org/ Key fingerprint = 61F5 C7DF 2F63 4A53 44D2 B9BE 3841 EA4F 5990 00BD -- Scott Glaser Fedora Core User Web - http://members.cox.net/sonar_guy/ Key fingerprint = 61F5 C7DF 2F63 4A53 44D2 B9BE 3841 EA4F 5990 00BD From stuart at elsn.org Wed Jan 4 21:01:31 2006 From: stuart at elsn.org (Stuart Ellis) Date: Wed, 04 Jan 2006 21:01:31 +0000 Subject: Attempt to Assist in the generation of the FC5 Installation Guide In-Reply-To: <1136405653.24101.6.camel@compaqlaptop.sqq89.com> References: <1136227800.16926.20.camel@compaqlaptop.sqq89.com> <1136313895.8443.20.camel@erato.phig.org> <1136315786.19117.3.camel@localhost.localdomain> <1136321981.2873.7.camel@compaqlaptop.sqq89.com> <1136322321.8443.61.camel@erato.phig.org> <1136323066.2873.21.camel@compaqlaptop.sqq89.com> <1136372161.24101.4.camel@compaqlaptop.sqq89.com> <1136383052.10076.44.camel@localhost.localdomain> <1136403762.2862.37.camel@localhost.localdomain> <1136405653.24101.6.camel@compaqlaptop.sqq89.com> Message-ID: <1136408491.2862.76.camel@localhost.localdomain> On Wed, 2006-01-04 at 15:14 -0500, Scott Glaser wrote: > > Having looked at Scott's mockup, I think that it's probably going to be > > easier to work on separate copies of fedora-install-guide-intro-en.xml > > and fedora-install-guide-beginninginstallation-en.xml, rather > > incrementally patching the existing files. > > > > Barring the addition of screenshots and edit/review, the current > > versions of these files are stable, so there is no issue with keeping > > them in place until we want to replace them. > > So go with a branch or continue working the way I am now working with a > local copy of the ig? Go with a branch. Perhaps focus on what you would like to do with the structure - the knotty issue is dealing with the matrix of boot/install options without being repetitive (e.g. all three network install options work very similarly). Feel free to just copy and paste chunks of text and use FIXMEs to fill out the sections, so that you don't get bogged down with rewriting lots of text at this stage. Markup for FIXMEs: Screenshot/text for X will be needed here -- Stuart Ellis stuart at elsn.org Fedora Documentation Project: http://fedora.redhat.com/projects/docs/ GPG key ID: 7098ABEA GPG key fingerprint: 68B0 E291 FB19 C845 E60E 9569 292E E365 7098 ABEA -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: signature.asc Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 189 bytes Desc: This is a digitally signed message part URL: From calennert at gmail.com Wed Jan 4 21:25:35 2006 From: calennert at gmail.com (Chris Lennert) Date: Wed, 04 Jan 2006 16:25:35 -0500 Subject: Attempt to Assist in the generation of the FC5 Installation Guide In-Reply-To: <1136383052.10076.44.camel@localhost.localdomain> References: <1136227800.16926.20.camel@compaqlaptop.sqq89.com> <1136313895.8443.20.camel@erato.phig.org> <1136315786.19117.3.camel@localhost.localdomain> <1136321981.2873.7.camel@compaqlaptop.sqq89.com> <1136322321.8443.61.camel@erato.phig.org> <1136323066.2873.21.camel@compaqlaptop.sqq89.com> <1136372161.24101.4.camel@compaqlaptop.sqq89.com> <1136383052.10076.44.camel@localhost.localdomain> Message-ID: <43BC3D4F.20502@gmail.com> Paul W. Frields wrote: > I think this makes sense, but I would leave this up to Stuart. The nice > thing about a branch is that it's the natural way to get the "good > stuff" folded back into HEAD. I think, though, that for this strategy > to function well, our webtest host needs to be able to build other > branches. As I recall, this came up at last night's FDSCo meeting. Did > anyone have any thoughts on how to accomplish this? The "bulkbuild" > script in our docs-common/bin/ is the starting point, so if someone > wants to submit a patch to the list, it would be appreciated. The attached patch implements the "-r" option that bulkbuild already possessed but was not yet implemented in the script. This is not really a final solution since, with this patch, it builds only the modules that have the specified tag (e.g., if, say, only the "documentation-guide" and "fedora-install-guide" modules were tagged with "FC5", then specifying "-r FC5" when invoking bulkbuild would result in successful builds for those two modules; the remaining modules would fail when pulling from CVS). But, hopefully, this is a step in the right direction. Perhaps, ideally, bulkbuild should always result in the build of HEAD and, if any additional tags for certain modules, those branches should be built as well. One way (and I'm sure there are more) would be to have another commmand-line option that specifies the module/branch builds that also need to be performed. Something like (using -b for "branch build"): $ bin/bulkbuild -n -b (fedora-install-guide=scott) <-- snip other args --> In a to-be-modified bulkbuild, this would build HEAD for all the modules and the "scott" branch of the fedora-install-guide module. This same/similar info could be read in via a data file as well. Take care, Chris -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: bulkbuild.patch Type: text/x-patch Size: 1084 bytes Desc: not available URL: -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: signature.asc Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 189 bytes Desc: OpenPGP digital signature URL: From nman64 at n-man.com Wed Jan 4 22:00:09 2006 From: nman64 at n-man.com (Patrick Barnes) Date: Wed, 04 Jan 2006 16:00:09 -0600 Subject: DocsRawhide Message-ID: <43BC4569.6090602@n-man.com> I've replaced the bulkbuild script from docs-common/bin/bulkbuild with the build-docs package based upon it. This package is what will power the webtest server, and you are welcome to add additional scripts as needed, just make sure to modify the Makefile and .spec file accordingly. Try to provide an explanation of any structural changes so we are all on the same page. -- Patrick "The N-Man" Barnes nman64 at n-man.com http://www.n-man.com/ -- Have I been helpful? Rate my assistance! http://rate.affero.net/nman64/ -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: signature.asc Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 189 bytes Desc: OpenPGP digital signature URL: From stickster at gmail.com Wed Jan 4 22:40:08 2006 From: stickster at gmail.com (Paul W. Frields) Date: Wed, 04 Jan 2006 17:40:08 -0500 Subject: DocsRawhide In-Reply-To: <43BC4569.6090602@n-man.com> References: <43BC4569.6090602@n-man.com> Message-ID: <1136414408.10076.58.camel@localhost.localdomain> On Wed, 2006-01-04 at 16:00 -0600, Patrick Barnes wrote: > I've replaced the bulkbuild script from docs-common/bin/bulkbuild with > the build-docs package based upon it. This package is what will power > the webtest server, and you are welcome to add additional scripts as > needed, just make sure to modify the Makefile and .spec file > accordingly. Try to provide an explanation of any structural changes so > we are all on the same page. Patrick, Where can we find the source for that package? Is it kept on the webtest host? Who has access to it at this point? How do we request access if we don't have it? Or, better yet, is there a place where this is all documented? ;-D -- Paul W. Frields, RHCE http://paul.frields.org/ gpg fingerprint: 3DA6 A0AC 6D58 FEC4 0233 5906 ACDB C937 BD11 3717 Fedora Documentation Project: http://fedora.redhat.com/projects/docs/ -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: signature.asc Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 189 bytes Desc: This is a digitally signed message part URL: From nman64 at n-man.com Wed Jan 4 22:57:34 2006 From: nman64 at n-man.com (Patrick Barnes) Date: Wed, 04 Jan 2006 16:57:34 -0600 Subject: DocsRawhide In-Reply-To: <1136414408.10076.58.camel@localhost.localdomain> References: <43BC4569.6090602@n-man.com> <1136414408.10076.58.camel@localhost.localdomain> Message-ID: <43BC52DE.1030301@n-man.com> Paul W. Frields wrote: > On Wed, 2006-01-04 at 16:00 -0600, Patrick Barnes wrote: > > I've replaced the bulkbuild script from docs-common/bin/bulkbuild with > > the ... source of the ... > build-docs package based upon it. This package is what will power > > the webtest server, and you are welcome to add additional scripts as > > needed, just make sure to modify the Makefile and .spec file > > accordingly. Try to provide an explanation of any structural changes so > > we are all on the same page. > > Patrick, > > Where can we find the source for that package? Is it kept on the > webtest host? Who has access to it at this point? How do we request > access if we don't have it? > > Or, better yet, is there a place where this is all documented? ;-D > > Everything that goes into the package is now there in CVS. Grab it, play with it, break it, etc. The Makefile supports 'tarball' and 'srpm' targets. Creation of the package and installation on the webtest server is not currently automated, nor do I know if it ever will be, so a quick shout on this list might be necessary when the server needs to be updated. -- Patrick "The N-Man" Barnes nman64 at n-man.com http://www.n-man.com/ -- Have I been helpful? Rate my assistance! http://rate.affero.net/nman64/ -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: signature.asc Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 189 bytes Desc: OpenPGP digital signature URL: From Tommy.Reynolds at MegaCoder.com Thu Jan 5 00:02:35 2006 From: Tommy.Reynolds at MegaCoder.com (Tommy Reynolds) Date: Wed, 4 Jan 2006 18:02:35 -0600 Subject: DocsRawhide In-Reply-To: <43BC52DE.1030301@n-man.com> References: <43BC4569.6090602@n-man.com> <1136414408.10076.58.camel@localhost.localdomain> <43BC52DE.1030301@n-man.com> Message-ID: <20060104180235.a399d7b0.Tommy.Reynolds@MegaCoder.com> Uttered Patrick Barnes , spake thus: > Everything that goes into the package is now there in CVS. Grab it, > play with it, break it, etc. The Makefile supports 'tarball' and 'srpm' > targets. Why was this put under "docs-common/bin/build-docs"? Anybody care if I move it up into a "docs-common/docs/build" place? Cheers -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 189 bytes Desc: not available URL: From nman64 at n-man.com Thu Jan 5 00:49:05 2006 From: nman64 at n-man.com (Patrick Barnes) Date: Wed, 04 Jan 2006 18:49:05 -0600 Subject: DocsRawhide In-Reply-To: <20060104180235.a399d7b0.Tommy.Reynolds@MegaCoder.com> References: <43BC4569.6090602@n-man.com> <1136414408.10076.58.camel@localhost.localdomain> <43BC52DE.1030301@n-man.com> <20060104180235.a399d7b0.Tommy.Reynolds@MegaCoder.com> Message-ID: <43BC6D01.40909@n-man.com> Tommy Reynolds wrote: > Uttered Patrick Barnes , spake thus: > > > Everything that goes into the package is now there in CVS. Grab it, > > play with it, break it, etc. The Makefile supports 'tarball' and 'srpm' > > targets. > > Why was this put under "docs-common/bin/build-docs"? Anybody care if > I move it up into a "docs-common/docs/build" place? > > Cheers > No objections here. I stuck it where I did as I was replacing the script at that location. I didn't know if it would fit in better anywhere else. If you think it belongs at docs-common/docs/build, then by all means feel free. Note that the package name is set to build-docs. -- Patrick "The N-Man" Barnes nman64 at n-man.com http://www.n-man.com/ -- Have I been helpful? Rate my assistance! http://rate.affero.net/nman64/ -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: signature.asc Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 189 bytes Desc: OpenPGP digital signature URL: From stickster at gmail.com Thu Jan 5 13:07:11 2006 From: stickster at gmail.com (Paul W. Frields) Date: Thu, 05 Jan 2006 08:07:11 -0500 Subject: DocsRawhide In-Reply-To: <43BC6D01.40909@n-man.com> References: <43BC4569.6090602@n-man.com> <1136414408.10076.58.camel@localhost.localdomain> <43BC52DE.1030301@n-man.com> <20060104180235.a399d7b0.Tommy.Reynolds@MegaCoder.com> <43BC6D01.40909@n-man.com> Message-ID: <1136466431.10076.72.camel@localhost.localdomain> On Wed, 2006-01-04 at 18:49 -0600, Patrick Barnes wrote: > Tommy Reynolds wrote: > > Uttered Patrick Barnes , spake thus: > > > > > Everything that goes into the package is now there in CVS. Grab it, > > > play with it, break it, etc. The Makefile supports 'tarball' and 'srpm' > > > targets. > > > > Why was this put under "docs-common/bin/build-docs"? Anybody care if > > I move it up into a "docs-common/docs/build" place? > > > No objections here. I stuck it where I did as I was replacing the > script at that location. I didn't know if it would fit in better > anywhere else. If you think it belongs at docs-common/docs/build, then > by all means feel free. Note that the package name is set to build-docs. Tommy, did you finish your move operation? I see the dead files (ca. 12 hours ago) in the ViewCVS listing, but they don't appear in HEAD yet at the new location. If you are getting a Round Tuit, no problem, just wondering. -- Paul W. Frields, RHCE http://paul.frields.org/ gpg fingerprint: 3DA6 A0AC 6D58 FEC4 0233 5906 ACDB C937 BD11 3717 Fedora Documentation Project: http://fedora.redhat.com/projects/docs/ -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: signature.asc Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 189 bytes Desc: This is a digitally signed message part URL: From sundaram at redhat.com Thu Jan 5 13:17:59 2006 From: sundaram at redhat.com (Rahul Sundaram) Date: Thu, 05 Jan 2006 18:47:59 +0530 Subject: Comments in configuration files Message-ID: <43BD1C87.4060504@redhat.com> Hi It seems that several configuration files in Fedora does not include helpful comments as necessary to guide users on where to look for information or which formats to follow. The crontab files could have a initial commented line specifying the format or hosts file could refer people to its man page for examples. Would the documentation team be willing to file bug reports with comments/content as appropriate? Do we need such guidelines as inclusion/release criteria? From kwade at redhat.com Thu Jan 5 19:33:38 2006 From: kwade at redhat.com (Karsten Wade) Date: Thu, 05 Jan 2006 11:33:38 -0800 Subject: release notes files refactoring Message-ID: <1136489619.8443.206.camel@erato.phig.org> In order to make it easier to move content to and from the Wiki, I have reworked the release-notes module to match filenames 1:1 with Wiki beat names. Below are my notes from refactoring-notes.txt in CVS. Translators need to follow the directions to get the new files and carry over previous translations. One reasons to do this conversion is to allow us to use xmldiff (in cvs.fedora:/cvs/docs/docs-common/bin) more effectively. You can use this tool to check the differences of the content between the XML tags, which should be more useful than line-based diff for detecting content changes. There will be a one-time PITA for the translators, but following this it should be *much easier* for translation (due to using xmldiff.) Note that the DocBook parent XML and sub-XML files do *not* follow the same layout of content as the pages at http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Docs/Beats . This is because the gathering of information and the display of information are two separate needs. The Docs/Beats pages are laid out to support writers focused on specific content. The release notes are laid out for readers. I would like to rework the layout of the release notes themselves for test3. This refactoring of files is a step in that direction. ## begin refactoring-notes.txt Questions? Email to fedora-docs-list at redhat.com. 0. Make a back-up of the *-en.xml files, if you need them for reference. The content is all present in the new files, but it may be easier for you to have the old files for reference. 1. Be sure to have newest files in the release-notes and docs-common module. 'cvs up -d' can help to make sure you get new files. 2. All languages except en have been removed from the Makefile target: LANGUAGES = en #it ja_JP ru zh_CN # uncomment languages when you have all the same # fies localized as are listed in XMLEXTRAFILES As the comments say, when you are ready to test the build for your language, move the language code to the left of the #comment mark and run 'make html'. 3. Old files are left in place for you to use. You can take the existing translation and move it to the new location. When you are done, or let us know on fedora-docs-list at redhat.com and the old files will get cleaned up. 4. Some of the old language specific files have been renamed. In the cases where content has been split into multiple files or the file is new, a blank file has been created. You need to move content from the old file into the new file, as per the table below. 5. This table shows the name of the old file and the name of the new file. This conversion has been done for -en only. Three old files on the left have been split into two or more files on the right. They are development-tools*xml, security*xml, and splash*xml. Old filename New filename ============================================================= [New File] ArchSpecific-en.xml [New File] ArchSpecificPPC-en.xml [New File] ArchSpecificx86-en.xml [New File] ArchSpecificx86_64-en.xml [New File] BackwardsCompatibility-en.xml colophon-relnotes-en.xml Colophon-en.xml daemons-en.xml SystemDaemons-en.xml database-servers-en.xml DatabaseServers-en.xml desktop-en.xml Desktop-en.xml development-tools-en.xml DevelopmentTools-en.xml DevelopmentToolsGCC-en.xml DevelopmentToolsJava-en.xml entertainment-en.xml Entertainment-en.xml file-servers-en.xml FileServers-en.xml file-systems-en.xml FileSystems-en.xml hardware-reqs-en.xml [Deleted] i18n-en.xml I18n-en.xml install-notes-en.xml Installer-en.xml intro-en.xml Introduction-en.xml java-package-en.xml PackageNotesJava-en.xml kernel-en.xm Kernel-en.xml legacy-en.xml Legacy-en.xml misc-server-en.xml [Deleted] multimedia-en.xml Multimedia-en.xml networking-en.xml Networking-en.xml overview-en.xml OverView-en.xml package-movement-en.xml PackageChanges-en.xml package-notes-en.xml PackageNotes-en.xml printing-en.xml Printing-en.xml project-overview-en.xml ProjectOverview-en.xml README-en.xml [Ignore] RELEASE-NOTES-en.xml [Same] RELEASE-NOTES-master-en.xml [Deleted] samba-en.xml Samba-en.xml security-en.xml Security-en.xml SecuritySELinux-en.xml server-tools-en.xml ServerTools-en.xml splash-en.xml Welcome-en.xml (content split into:) OverView-en.xml web-servers-en.xml WebServers-en.xml xorg-en.xml Xorg-en.xml -- Karsten Wade, RHCE * Sr. Tech Writer * http://people.redhat.com/kwade/ gpg fingerprint: 2680 DBFD D968 3141 0115 5F1B D992 0E06 AD0E 0C41 Content Services Fedora Documentation Project http://www.redhat.com/docs http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/DocsProject -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: signature.asc Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 189 bytes Desc: This is a digitally signed message part URL: From stuart at elsn.org Thu Jan 5 19:53:13 2006 From: stuart at elsn.org (Stuart Ellis) Date: Thu, 05 Jan 2006 19:53:13 +0000 Subject: Comments in configuration files In-Reply-To: <43BD1C87.4060504@redhat.com> References: <43BD1C87.4060504@redhat.com> Message-ID: <1136490793.2805.21.camel@localhost.localdomain> On Thu, 2006-01-05 at 18:47 +0530, Rahul Sundaram wrote: > Hi > > It seems that several configuration files in Fedora does not include > helpful comments as necessary to guide users on where to look for > information or which formats to follow. The crontab files could have a > initial commented line specifying the format or hosts file could refer > people to its man page for examples. Would the documentation team be > willing to file bug reports with comments/content as appropriate? > > Do we need such guidelines as inclusion/release criteria? I think that it would be a good policy for those configuration files that are written by Red Hat or Fedora developers (e.g. /etc/sysconfig/*, /etc/httpd/conf.d/*), even if it's just a bit of boilerplate text that identifies the file as a custom item and provides a reference for more information. Where configuration files are supplied by upstream as part of the software, it may be that tweaking them would be felt to be against the general use-upstream-defaults policy. That's probably something that would need discussion on development or maintainer lists to work out. -- Stuart Ellis stuart at elsn.org Fedora Documentation Project: http://fedora.redhat.com/projects/docs/ GPG key ID: 7098ABEA GPG key fingerprint: 68B0 E291 FB19 C845 E60E 9569 292E E365 7098 ABEA -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: signature.asc Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 189 bytes Desc: This is a digitally signed message part URL: From sundaram at redhat.com Thu Jan 5 19:58:00 2006 From: sundaram at redhat.com (Rahul Sundaram) Date: Fri, 06 Jan 2006 01:28:00 +0530 Subject: Comments in configuration files In-Reply-To: <1136490793.2805.21.camel@localhost.localdomain> References: <43BD1C87.4060504@redhat.com> <1136490793.2805.21.camel@localhost.localdomain> Message-ID: <43BD7A48.2090300@redhat.com> Stuart Ellis wrote: >On Thu, 2006-01-05 at 18:47 +0530, Rahul Sundaram wrote: > > >>Hi >> >>It seems that several configuration files in Fedora does not include >>helpful comments as necessary to guide users on where to look for >>information or which formats to follow. The crontab files could have a >>initial commented line specifying the format or hosts file could refer >>people to its man page for examples. Would the documentation team be >>willing to file bug reports with comments/content as appropriate? >> >>Do we need such guidelines as inclusion/release criteria? >> >> > >I think that it would be a good policy for those configuration files >that are written by Red Hat or Fedora developers >(e.g. /etc/sysconfig/*, /etc/httpd/conf.d/*), even if it's just a bit of >boilerplate text that identifies the file as a custom item and provides >a reference for more information. > >Where configuration files are supplied by upstream as part of the >software, it may be that tweaking them would be felt to be against the >general use-upstream-defaults policy. That's probably something that >would need discussion on development or maintainer lists to work out. > > (CCing fedora-devel list) Might patch these as appropriate and send these upstream as required if agreed upon as a general policy. From kwade at redhat.com Thu Jan 5 20:31:41 2006 From: kwade at redhat.com (Karsten Wade) Date: Thu, 05 Jan 2006 12:31:41 -0800 Subject: release notes files refactoring In-Reply-To: <1136489619.8443.206.camel@erato.phig.org> References: <1136489619.8443.206.camel@erato.phig.org> Message-ID: <1136493101.8443.220.camel@erato.phig.org> On Thu, 2006-01-05 at 11:33 -0800, Karsten Wade wrote: > In order to make it easier to move content to and from the Wiki, I have > reworked the release-notes module to match filenames 1:1 with Wiki beat > names. You can look at the module directly here: http://cvs.fedora.redhat.com/viewcvs/release-notes/?root=docs I have completed adding the remaining languages, either copying over files that got directly renamed, or making new files where necessary. Fun fun fun. - Karsten -- Karsten Wade, RHCE * Sr. Tech Writer * http://people.redhat.com/kwade/ gpg fingerprint: 2680 DBFD D968 3141 0115 5F1B D992 0E06 AD0E 0C41 Content Services Fedora Documentation Project http://www.redhat.com/docs http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/DocsProject -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: signature.asc Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 189 bytes Desc: This is a digitally signed message part URL: From Tommy.Reynolds at MegaCoder.com Thu Jan 5 17:00:11 2006 From: Tommy.Reynolds at MegaCoder.com (Tommy Reynolds) Date: Thu, 5 Jan 2006 11:00:11 -0600 Subject: DocsRawhide In-Reply-To: <1136466431.10076.72.camel@localhost.localdomain> References: <43BC4569.6090602@n-man.com> <1136414408.10076.58.camel@localhost.localdomain> <43BC52DE.1030301@n-man.com> <20060104180235.a399d7b0.Tommy.Reynolds@MegaCoder.com> <43BC6D01.40909@n-man.com> <1136466431.10076.72.camel@localhost.localdomain> Message-ID: <20060105110011.a9844335.Tommy.Reynolds@MegaCoder.com> Uttered "Paul W. Frields" , spake thus: > Tommy, did you finish your move operation? I see the dead files (ca. 12 > hours ago) in the ViewCVS listing, but they don't appear in HEAD yet at > the new location. If you are getting a Round Tuit, no problem, just > wondering. Move was completed before the docs-common/bin/build_docs files became dead. You should be able to get the files from their new location via either: $ cvs co infrastructure/build_docs or $ cvs co build_docs It works for me. There are no sticky tags anywhere, so they should default to HEAD. Lemme know if you have problems. Cheers -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 189 bytes Desc: not available URL: From Tommy.Reynolds at MegaCoder.com Thu Jan 5 17:25:53 2006 From: Tommy.Reynolds at MegaCoder.com (Tommy Reynolds) Date: Thu, 5 Jan 2006 11:25:53 -0600 Subject: Comments in configuration files In-Reply-To: <43BD1C87.4060504@redhat.com> References: <43BD1C87.4060504@redhat.com> Message-ID: <20060105112553.cc11436b.Tommy.Reynolds@MegaCoder.com> Uttered Rahul Sundaram , spake thus: > It seems that several configuration files in Fedora does not include > helpful comments as necessary to guide users on where to look for > information or which formats to follow. Under FCn, most configuration files have system-config-* tools, or similar, to allow newbies to painlessly access these files. A user sufficiently advanced to attack the raw files had better have enough savy to know the file formats, or at least where to find them. If someone doesn't know they can "man fstab", is that a person who _should_ be editing "/etc/fstab"? Not on my machines, they won't. OTOH, I do describe the crontab field order using an embedded comment but any more, such as trying to explain valid entries, giving examples and the like do not belong here. Also, some tools rewrite config files and do not preserve comments. Frustration ensues. So my position is this: "no" to newbie comments in the files themselves, but "yes" to a cut-n-paste header comment in the man(1) page. HTH. -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 189 bytes Desc: not available URL: From stickster at gmail.com Thu Jan 5 22:44:54 2006 From: stickster at gmail.com (Paul W. Frields) Date: Thu, 05 Jan 2006 17:44:54 -0500 Subject: DocsRawhide In-Reply-To: <20060105110011.a9844335.Tommy.Reynolds@MegaCoder.com> References: <43BC4569.6090602@n-man.com> <1136414408.10076.58.camel@localhost.localdomain> <43BC52DE.1030301@n-man.com> <20060104180235.a399d7b0.Tommy.Reynolds@MegaCoder.com> <43BC6D01.40909@n-man.com> <1136466431.10076.72.camel@localhost.localdomain> <20060105110011.a9844335.Tommy.Reynolds@MegaCoder.com> Message-ID: <1136501094.30698.12.camel@localhost.localdomain> On Thu, 2006-01-05 at 11:00 -0600, Tommy Reynolds wrote: > Uttered "Paul W. Frields" , spake thus: > > > Tommy, did you finish your move operation? I see the dead files (ca. 12 > > hours ago) in the ViewCVS listing, but they don't appear in HEAD yet at > > the new location. If you are getting a Round Tuit, no problem, just > > wondering. > > Move was completed before the docs-common/bin/build_docs files became > dead. You should be able to get the files from their new location > via either: > > $ cvs co infrastructure/build_docs > > or > > $ cvs co build_docs > > It works for me. There are no sticky tags anywhere, so they should > default to HEAD. Lemme know if you have problems. I'm obviously looking in the wrong place, sorry. Thanks for the info. -- Paul W. Frields, RHCE http://paul.frields.org/ gpg fingerprint: 3DA6 A0AC 6D58 FEC4 0233 5906 ACDB C937 BD11 3717 Fedora Documentation Project: http://fedora.redhat.com/projects/docs/ -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: signature.asc Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 189 bytes Desc: This is a digitally signed message part URL: From stickster at gmail.com Thu Jan 5 23:23:42 2006 From: stickster at gmail.com (Paul W. Frields) Date: Thu, 05 Jan 2006 18:23:42 -0500 Subject: Comments in configuration files In-Reply-To: <20060105112553.cc11436b.Tommy.Reynolds@MegaCoder.com> References: <43BD1C87.4060504@redhat.com> <20060105112553.cc11436b.Tommy.Reynolds@MegaCoder.com> Message-ID: <1136503422.30698.25.camel@localhost.localdomain> On Thu, 2006-01-05 at 11:25 -0600, Tommy Reynolds wrote: > Uttered Rahul Sundaram , spake thus: > > > It seems that several configuration files in Fedora does not include > > helpful comments as necessary to guide users on where to look for > > information or which formats to follow. > > Under FCn, most configuration files have system-config-* tools, or > similar, to allow newbies to painlessly access these files. A user > sufficiently advanced to attack the raw files had better have enough > savy to know the file formats, or at least where to find them. If > someone doesn't know they can "man fstab", is that a person who > _should_ be editing "/etc/fstab"? Not on my machines, they won't. > > OTOH, I do describe the crontab field order using an embedded > comment but any more, such as trying to explain valid entries, giving > examples and the like do not belong here. > > Also, some tools rewrite config files and do not preserve comments. > Frustration ensues. > > So my position is this: "no" to newbie comments in the files > themselves, but "yes" to a cut-n-paste header comment in the man(1) > page. I'm with you up to the last paragraph, and my only caveat there isthat I don't like the idea of messing with canonical man pages, which are duplicated so often across the net. I think this need should be filled by documents like the Administration Guide[1]. This seems like an issue for that drafting process, IMHO. [1]http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Docs/Drafts/AdministrationGuide -- Paul W. Frields, RHCE http://paul.frields.org/ gpg fingerprint: 3DA6 A0AC 6D58 FEC4 0233 5906 ACDB C937 BD11 3717 Fedora Documentation Project: http://fedora.redhat.com/projects/docs/ -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: signature.asc Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 189 bytes Desc: This is a digitally signed message part URL: From stickster at gmail.com Thu Jan 5 23:30:54 2006 From: stickster at gmail.com (Paul W. Frields) Date: Thu, 05 Jan 2006 18:30:54 -0500 Subject: release notes files refactoring In-Reply-To: <1136493101.8443.220.camel@erato.phig.org> References: <1136489619.8443.206.camel@erato.phig.org> <1136493101.8443.220.camel@erato.phig.org> Message-ID: <1136503854.30698.31.camel@localhost.localdomain> On Thu, 2006-01-05 at 12:31 -0800, Karsten Wade wrote: > On Thu, 2006-01-05 at 11:33 -0800, Karsten Wade wrote: > > In order to make it easier to move content to and from the Wiki, I have > > reworked the release-notes module to match filenames 1:1 with Wiki beat > > names. > > You can look at the module directly here: > > http://cvs.fedora.redhat.com/viewcvs/release-notes/?root=docs > > I have completed adding the remaining languages, either copying over > files that got directly renamed, or making new files where necessary. > > Fun fun fun. If I can make one suggestion just a little late (sorry), instead of using &DOCID; as a monolithic entity replacing &BOOKID;, I think the folks who commented on the new one agreed with the new usage being like: This makes it much easier if/when we use XSL, xmlstarlet, or other goodies to do good things in our building processes. Since I haven't (yet) documented the usage in the canon yet, I'm happy to fix them (or just help if you let me know how you want to divvy). What say you? -- Paul W. Frields, RHCE http://paul.frields.org/ gpg fingerprint: 3DA6 A0AC 6D58 FEC4 0233 5906 ACDB C937 BD11 3717 Fedora Documentation Project: http://fedora.redhat.com/projects/docs/ -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: signature.asc Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 189 bytes Desc: This is a digitally signed message part URL: From stickster at gmail.com Fri Jan 6 00:24:34 2006 From: stickster at gmail.com (Paul W. Frields) Date: Thu, 05 Jan 2006 19:24:34 -0500 Subject: release notes files refactoring In-Reply-To: <1136503854.30698.31.camel@localhost.localdomain> References: <1136489619.8443.206.camel@erato.phig.org> <1136493101.8443.220.camel@erato.phig.org> <1136503854.30698.31.camel@localhost.localdomain> Message-ID: <1136507074.30698.34.camel@localhost.localdomain> On Thu, 2006-01-05 at 18:30 -0500, Paul W. Frields wrote: > On Thu, 2006-01-05 at 12:31 -0800, Karsten Wade wrote: > > On Thu, 2006-01-05 at 11:33 -0800, Karsten Wade wrote: > > > In order to make it easier to move content to and from the Wiki, I have > > > reworked the release-notes module to match filenames 1:1 with Wiki beat > > > names. > > > > You can look at the module directly here: > > > > http://cvs.fedora.redhat.com/viewcvs/release-notes/?root=docs > > > > I have completed adding the remaining languages, either copying over > > files that got directly renamed, or making new files where necessary. > > > > Fun fun fun. > > If I can make one suggestion just a little late (sorry), instead of > using &DOCID; as a monolithic entity replacing &BOOKID;, I think the > folks who commented on the new one agreed with the new usage being like: > > > > > > > This makes it much easier if/when we use XSL, xmlstarlet, or other > goodies to do good things in our building processes. Since I haven't > (yet) documented the usage in the canon yet, I'm happy to fix them (or > just help if you let me know how you want to divvy). What say you? Hate to reply to myself, but I realized that there were only a few files involved. I went ahead and made the changes, figuring you could slap my wrist and revert if there was a problem. Disco! -- Paul W. Frields, RHCE http://paul.frields.org/ gpg fingerprint: 3DA6 A0AC 6D58 FEC4 0233 5906 ACDB C937 BD11 3717 Fedora Documentation Project: http://fedora.redhat.com/projects/docs/ -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: signature.asc Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 189 bytes Desc: This is a digitally signed message part URL: From Tommy.Reynolds at MegaCoder.com Fri Jan 6 16:45:51 2006 From: Tommy.Reynolds at MegaCoder.com (Tommy Reynolds) Date: Fri, 6 Jan 2006 10:45:51 -0600 Subject: info2rpminfo Message-ID: <20060106104551.c68113e9.Tommy.Reynolds@MegaCoder.com> Paul, How should info2rpminfo.xsl be used? I've tried it against the Install Guide and get tons of "Failure to process entity" messages and no output. Halp! -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 189 bytes Desc: not available URL: From stickster at gmail.com Fri Jan 6 17:22:23 2006 From: stickster at gmail.com (Paul W. Frields) Date: Fri, 06 Jan 2006 12:22:23 -0500 Subject: info2rpminfo In-Reply-To: <20060106104551.c68113e9.Tommy.Reynolds@MegaCoder.com> References: <20060106104551.c68113e9.Tommy.Reynolds@MegaCoder.com> Message-ID: <1136568143.30698.41.camel@localhost.localdomain> On Fri, 2006-01-06 at 10:45 -0600, Tommy Reynolds wrote: > Paul, > > How should info2rpminfo.xsl be used? I've tried it against the > Install Guide and get tons of "Failure to process entity" messages > and no output. > > Halp! I use this syntax which WORKSFORME: xsltproc info2rpminfo.xsl fedora-install-guide-en.xml It's nicer to read if you pipe it through "xmlformat -f xmlformat-fdp.conf" though. Note there are things this XSL can't really do, so it leaves comments where more attention is needed after processing. -- Paul W. Frields, RHCE http://paul.frields.org/ gpg fingerprint: 3DA6 A0AC 6D58 FEC4 0233 5906 ACDB C937 BD11 3717 Fedora Documentation Project: http://fedora.redhat.com/projects/docs/ -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: signature.asc Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 189 bytes Desc: This is a digitally signed message part URL: From Tommy.Reynolds at MegaCoder.com Fri Jan 6 17:33:29 2006 From: Tommy.Reynolds at MegaCoder.com (Tommy Reynolds) Date: Fri, 6 Jan 2006 11:33:29 -0600 Subject: info2rpminfo In-Reply-To: <1136568143.30698.41.camel@localhost.localdomain> References: <20060106104551.c68113e9.Tommy.Reynolds@MegaCoder.com> <1136568143.30698.41.camel@localhost.localdomain> Message-ID: <20060106113329.f6a3095a.Tommy.Reynolds@MegaCoder.com> Uttered "Paul W. Frields" , spake thus: > I use this syntax which WORKSFORME: > > xsltproc info2rpminfo.xsl fedora-install-guide-en.xml Me, too, after I GOT IN SYNC WITH THE FREAKIN' CVS FEDORA-INSTALL-GUIDE-EN.XML FILE!! self.slap(dope) Thanks -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 189 bytes Desc: not available URL: From apbrar at gmail.com Sat Jan 7 04:12:51 2006 From: apbrar at gmail.com (A Singh Alam) Date: Sat, 07 Jan 2006 09:42:51 +0530 Subject: Separate directories for each Language for Release notes (and other docs) Message-ID: <43BF3FC3.1060501@gmail.com> Hello, I am working for Translation (now for Release Notes), I found there is single Directory as release-notes/ 319 Files are there, but why not we make Separate Directory for Each Language -> with this big number of file in a single folder, it is somehow difficult to only "en" files ->New Translator will find this easy to copy "en" folder as Template to his/her Language (like "pa") ->Easy to Maintain each language (as I would like to work for Punjabi and I need to check only "en" and "pa" folder for those) ->If there is any problem with Language, then easy to check a folder and fix, then searching in big list for files thanks regards A S Alam Punjabi (Gurmukhi) From stickster at gmail.com Sat Jan 7 05:50:12 2006 From: stickster at gmail.com (Paul W. Frields) Date: Sat, 07 Jan 2006 00:50:12 -0500 Subject: Separate directories for each Language for Release notes (and other docs) In-Reply-To: <43BF3FC3.1060501@gmail.com> References: <43BF3FC3.1060501@gmail.com> Message-ID: <1136613012.30698.57.camel@localhost.localdomain> On Sat, 2006-01-07 at 09:42 +0530, A Singh Alam wrote: > Hello, > > I am working for Translation (now for Release Notes), I found there is > single Directory as > > release-notes/ > > > 319 Files are there, > > but why not we make Separate Directory for Each Language > > -> with this big number of file in a single folder, it is somehow > difficult to only "en" files > > ->New Translator will find this easy to copy "en" folder as Template to > his/her Language (like "pa") > > ->Easy to Maintain each language (as I would like to work for Punjabi > and I need to check only "en" and "pa" folder for those) > > ->If there is any problem with Language, then easy to check a folder and > fix, then searching in big list for files If we are going to make any such change, we should probably make it globally. Having only one document use this convention adds needless complexity to our processes. I'm not opposed to doing this, but it needs to be a global decision either way. Tommy, although this would necessitate some changes (obviously), wouldn't it make some of the scripting easier in the long run? IOW, I'm thinking of the recent deal with having to put naming conventions in place for figs/ stuff, which you solved of course, but wouldn't this alleviate that problem and make such a situation less likely for other processes we might invent later? -- Paul W. Frields, RHCE http://paul.frields.org/ gpg fingerprint: 3DA6 A0AC 6D58 FEC4 0233 5906 ACDB C937 BD11 3717 Fedora Documentation Project: http://fedora.redhat.com/projects/docs/ -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: signature.asc Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 189 bytes Desc: This is a digitally signed message part URL: From sundaram at redhat.com Sat Jan 7 06:00:05 2006 From: sundaram at redhat.com (Rahul Sundaram) Date: Sat, 07 Jan 2006 11:30:05 +0530 Subject: Separate directories for each Language for Release notes (and other docs) In-Reply-To: <1136613012.30698.57.camel@localhost.localdomain> References: <43BF3FC3.1060501@gmail.com> <1136613012.30698.57.camel@localhost.localdomain> Message-ID: <43BF58E5.70300@redhat.com> Paul W. Frields wrote: >On Sat, 2006-01-07 at 09:42 +0530, A Singh Alam wrote: > > >>Hello, >> >>I am working for Translation (now for Release Notes), I found there is >>single Directory as >> >>release-notes/ >> >> >>319 Files are there, >> >>but why not we make Separate Directory for Each Language >> >>-> with this big number of file in a single folder, it is somehow >>difficult to only "en" files >> >>->New Translator will find this easy to copy "en" folder as Template to >>his/her Language (like "pa") >> >>->Easy to Maintain each language (as I would like to work for Punjabi >>and I need to check only "en" and "pa" folder for those) >> >>->If there is any problem with Language, then easy to check a folder and >>fix, then searching in big list for files >> >> > >If we are going to make any such change, we should probably make it >globally. Having only one document use this convention adds needless >complexity to our processes. I'm not opposed to doing this, but it >needs to be a global decision either way. > Right. Might create all those languages under release-notes/languages/ globally. -- Rahul Fedora Bug Triaging - http://fedorproject.org/wiki/BugZappers From stickster at gmail.com Sat Jan 7 06:04:09 2006 From: stickster at gmail.com (Paul W. Frields) Date: Sat, 07 Jan 2006 01:04:09 -0500 Subject: Separate directories for each Language for Release notes (and other docs) In-Reply-To: <43BF58E5.70300@redhat.com> References: <43BF3FC3.1060501@gmail.com> <1136613012.30698.57.camel@localhost.localdomain> <43BF58E5.70300@redhat.com> Message-ID: <1136613849.30698.65.camel@localhost.localdomain> On Sat, 2006-01-07 at 11:30 +0530, Rahul Sundaram wrote: > Paul W. Frields wrote: > >If we are going to make any such change, we should probably make it > >globally. Having only one document use this convention adds needless > >complexity to our processes. I'm not opposed to doing this, but it > >needs to be a global decision either way. > > > Right. Might create all those languages under > release-notes/languages/ globally. Wouldn't it be easier to just use release-notes/? Is there another factorization for the content, other than by language? -- Paul W. Frields, RHCE http://paul.frields.org/ gpg fingerprint: 3DA6 A0AC 6D58 FEC4 0233 5906 ACDB C937 BD11 3717 Fedora Documentation Project: http://fedora.redhat.com/projects/docs/ -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: signature.asc Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 189 bytes Desc: This is a digitally signed message part URL: From sundaram at redhat.com Sat Jan 7 06:11:58 2006 From: sundaram at redhat.com (Rahul Sundaram) Date: Sat, 07 Jan 2006 11:41:58 +0530 Subject: Separate directories for each Language for Release notes (and other docs) In-Reply-To: <1136613849.30698.65.camel@localhost.localdomain> References: <43BF3FC3.1060501@gmail.com> <1136613012.30698.57.camel@localhost.localdomain> <43BF58E5.70300@redhat.com> <1136613849.30698.65.camel@localhost.localdomain> Message-ID: <43BF5BAE.8020807@redhat.com> Paul W. Frields wrote: >On Sat, 2006-01-07 at 11:30 +0530, Rahul Sundaram wrote: > > >>Paul W. Frields wrote: >> >> >>>If we are going to make any such change, we should probably make it >>>globally. Having only one document use this convention adds needless >>>complexity to our processes. I'm not opposed to doing this, but it >>>needs to be a global decision either way. >>> >>> >>> >>Right. Might create all those languages under >>release-notes/languages/ globally. >> >> > >Wouldn't it be easier to just use release-notes/? Is there >another factorization for the content, other than by language? > > Well if we get translation for a large number of languages which is what I am expecting to happen soon, then its easier to manage if those sub directories are under languages instead of the root name space. Currently the only factor for categorization is language but we might have other factors later. -- Rahul Fedora Bug Triaging - http://fedorproject.org/wiki/BugZappers From stickster at gmail.com Sat Jan 7 06:13:23 2006 From: stickster at gmail.com (Paul W. Frields) Date: Sat, 07 Jan 2006 01:13:23 -0500 Subject: Separate directories for each Language for Release notes (and other docs) In-Reply-To: <43BF5BAE.8020807@redhat.com> References: <43BF3FC3.1060501@gmail.com> <1136613012.30698.57.camel@localhost.localdomain> <43BF58E5.70300@redhat.com> <1136613849.30698.65.camel@localhost.localdomain> <43BF5BAE.8020807@redhat.com> Message-ID: <1136614403.30698.68.camel@localhost.localdomain> On Sat, 2006-01-07 at 11:41 +0530, Rahul Sundaram wrote: > >>Paul W. Frields wrote: > >>>If we are going to make any such change, we should probably make it > >>>globally. Having only one document use this convention adds needless > >>>complexity to our processes. I'm not opposed to doing this, but it > >>>needs to be a global decision either way. > >>> > >>Right. Might create all those languages under > >>release-notes/languages/ globally. > > > >Wouldn't it be easier to just use release-notes/? Is there > >another factorization for the content, other than by language? > > > Well if we get translation for a large number of languages which is what > I am expecting to happen soon, then its easier to manage if those sub > directories are under languages instead of the root name space. > Currently the only factor for categorization is language but we might > have other factors later. As long as there's a way to share common files like figures under a common/ subdirectory we should be OK. I'm sure Tommy will think about this and propose something logical. -- Paul W. Frields, RHCE http://paul.frields.org/ gpg fingerprint: 3DA6 A0AC 6D58 FEC4 0233 5906 ACDB C937 BD11 3717 Fedora Documentation Project: http://fedora.redhat.com/projects/docs/ -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: signature.asc Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 189 bytes Desc: This is a digitally signed message part URL: From Tommy.Reynolds at MegaCoder.com Sat Jan 7 13:47:53 2006 From: Tommy.Reynolds at MegaCoder.com (Tommy Reynolds) Date: Sat, 7 Jan 2006 07:47:53 -0600 Subject: Separate directories for each Language for Release notes (and other docs) In-Reply-To: <1136614403.30698.68.camel@localhost.localdomain> References: <43BF3FC3.1060501@gmail.com> <1136613012.30698.57.camel@localhost.localdomain> <43BF58E5.70300@redhat.com> <1136613849.30698.65.camel@localhost.localdomain> <43BF5BAE.8020807@redhat.com> <1136614403.30698.68.camel@localhost.localdomain> Message-ID: <20060107074753.7408461c.Tommy.Reynolds@MegaCoder.com> Uttered "Paul W. Frields" , spake thus: > As long as there's a way to share common files like figures under a > common/ subdirectory we should be OK. I'm sure Tommy will think about > this and propose something logical. Oh, foolish mortal! I did think of this (check the archives), back when we first started added the i18n build support. The consensus at the time was to have flat directories. And so we do. However, I never liked the idea. I suppose having foo-en.xml and foo-cz.xml in the same directory was appealing to visually compare translations side-by-side, but it was not clear to me why this was needed. Must a translator slavishly make a foo-topicA-de.xml file just because the original author made a foo-topicA-ru.xml file? Anyway, I digress. How about something like this, which is what I use for my own projects: fedora-docs/ +-- docs-common/ | +-- Makefile | +-- Makefile.common | +-- README | +-- bin/ | | +-- db2rpm-info* | | +-- tidy-bowl* | | +-- | | +-- xmldiff* | | +-- xmldiff.pl | | +-- xmlformat* | | \-- xmlformat-fdp.conf | +-- common/ | | +-- README | | +-- | | \-- opl.xml | +-- css/ | | +-- fedora-draft.css | | \-- fedora-plain.css | +-- fedora-doc-common-0.1-cvs20051230.noarch.rpm | +-- images/ | | +-- Makefile | | +-- | | +-- watermark-en.png | | \-- watermark-en.svg | +-- man/ | | \-- man1/ | | \-- tidy-bowl.1 | +-- packaging/ | | +-- | | \-- titlegrab.py* | +-- stylesheet-images/ | | +-- 1.eps | | +-- | | \-- warning.png | \-- xsl/ | +-- html-common-relnotes.xsl | +-- | \-- redhat.xsl \-- example-tutorial/ +-- Makefile +-- common/ | +-- Makefile | +-- bin/ | +-- figs/ | +-- src/ | \-- xml/ \-- en/ +-- Makefile +-- bin/ +-- figs/ +-- src/ \-- xml/ Where: bin/ holds whatever scripts and such that need be run to generate dynamic content. figs/ holds language-specific diagrams and whatnot, such as SVG files converted to PNG by a bin/ script. src/ holds any raw code or snippets needed for the figures or examples. I use this to make sure any code-based screenshots actually work. xml/ Holds the XML files for the document. Does not usually have subdirs, but they are not prohibited. A set of recursive Makefile's tie all this together, so I can drive everything from the top-level Makefile. Now, most of this is overkill for FDP, but I believe the structure is comprehensible, scalable, and most of all "sound". Any subdir not needed can simply be omitted. More could be added. Want to know how many documents have Hungarian translations? $ echo fedora-docs/*/hr | xargs -n1 | wc -l Seriously, this would simplify the individual Makefile's even more than what we currently have, because we could avoid all those silly Makefile TEMPLATE constructs: they're elegant but not really readable. I propose deferring this reorganization until we get the RPM packaging stuff nailed down. Then we can just change the paths around a bit ;-) Cheers -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 189 bytes Desc: not available URL: From stickster at gmail.com Sat Jan 7 14:25:31 2006 From: stickster at gmail.com (Paul W. Frields) Date: Sat, 07 Jan 2006 09:25:31 -0500 Subject: Separate directories for each Language for Release notes (and other docs) In-Reply-To: <20060107074753.7408461c.Tommy.Reynolds@MegaCoder.com> References: <43BF3FC3.1060501@gmail.com> <1136613012.30698.57.camel@localhost.localdomain> <43BF58E5.70300@redhat.com> <1136613849.30698.65.camel@localhost.localdomain> <43BF5BAE.8020807@redhat.com> <1136614403.30698.68.camel@localhost.localdomain> <20060107074753.7408461c.Tommy.Reynolds@MegaCoder.com> Message-ID: <1136643931.3533.1.camel@localhost.localdomain> On Sat, 2006-01-07 at 07:47 -0600, Tommy Reynolds wrote: > Uttered "Paul W. Frields" , spake thus: > > > As long as there's a way to share common files like figures under a > > common/ subdirectory we should be OK. I'm sure Tommy will think about > > this and propose something logical. > > Oh, foolish mortal! I did think of this (check the archives), back > when we first started added the i18n build support. The consensus at > the time was to have flat directories. And so we do. Ha! I don't know about you, but I plan to live forever. ;-D [...snip...] > \-- example-tutorial/ > +-- Makefile > +-- common/ > | +-- Makefile > | +-- bin/ > | +-- figs/ > | +-- src/ > | \-- xml/ > \-- en/ > +-- Makefile > +-- bin/ > +-- figs/ > +-- src/ > \-- xml/ > > Where: > bin/ holds whatever scripts and such that need be run to > generate dynamic content. > figs/ holds language-specific diagrams and whatnot, such > as SVG files converted to PNG by a bin/ script. > src/ holds any raw code or snippets needed for the > figures or examples. I use this to make sure any > code-based screenshots actually work. > xml/ Holds the XML files for the document. Does not > usually have subdirs, but they are not prohibited. > > A set of recursive Makefile's tie all this together, so I can drive > everything from the top-level Makefile. > > Now, most of this is overkill for FDP, but I believe the structure is > comprehensible, scalable, and most of all "sound". Any subdir not > needed can simply be omitted. More could be added. Now *that's* what I'm talkin' 'bout. > Seriously, this would simplify the individual Makefile's even more than > what we currently have, because we could avoid all those silly Makefile > TEMPLATE constructs: they're elegant but not really readable. OTOH, if we'd never used them I wouldn't have learned how they work. :-) > I propose deferring this reorganization until we get the RPM > packaging stuff nailed down. Then we can just change the paths > around a bit ;-) Agreed, but I think we need some "thirds" and "me too's" before proceeding since it will shake up CVS a little. *sigh* If only we used Subversion. -- Paul W. Frields, RHCE http://paul.frields.org/ gpg fingerprint: 3DA6 A0AC 6D58 FEC4 0233 5906 ACDB C937 BD11 3717 Fedora Documentation Project: http://fedora.redhat.com/projects/docs/ -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: signature.asc Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 189 bytes Desc: This is a digitally signed message part URL: From stefanov_ss at yahoo.com Sat Jan 7 15:51:46 2006 From: stefanov_ss at yahoo.com (Stefan Stefanov) Date: Sat, 7 Jan 2006 07:51:46 -0800 (PST) Subject: Help with migration to bigger hard drive Message-ID: <20060107155146.36709.qmail@web34603.mail.mud.yahoo.com> Please, Help me with exchanging the harddrive of a running server with a bigger one! It is practically impossible to repeat all tricks and installations again, there fore I want to clone the disk. I have FC3 on 30 Gb disk and a new 200 Gb IDE disk. What did I do: I unpluged the original 30Gb disk, pluged the 200 Gb instead and installed the same FC3 - minimal installation on it using anaconda defaults. Then I put 30Gb as master and 200 as slave. Checked with fsdisk -l and saw the same partitions: 1-13 hda1 - bootable and 14-end hda2 - rest for the 30gb and 1-13 hdb1 bootable and 14-end the second one for the 200gb I mounted -t ext3 hdb2 one to /mnt/linux_backup/ and hdb1 to /mnt/linux_backup/boot I copied with rsync everything except /mnt and /proc to /mnt/linux_backup Than I umplugged and exchanged slave master - it booted again the small disk although under the name /dev/hdb ! I unlugged the small one and than it didn't boot at all - only GRUB on the black screen. I plugged back messed up with glub alittle bit and plug the new disk alone again. This time Fedora starts but it stopps at the very beginning and writes things like: cannot find Logical volumes Kernel panic It has something to do with the Vol00 system that is installed but I do not know what to do! Please, can somebody help me because this server is important for us - we are biologists. Thank you, Stefan -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From stickster at gmail.com Sat Jan 7 16:05:34 2006 From: stickster at gmail.com (Paul W. Frields) Date: Sat, 07 Jan 2006 11:05:34 -0500 Subject: Help with migration to bigger hard drive In-Reply-To: <20060107155146.36709.qmail@web34603.mail.mud.yahoo.com> References: <20060107155146.36709.qmail@web34603.mail.mud.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <1136649934.3533.4.camel@localhost.localdomain> On Sat, 2006-01-07 at 07:51 -0800, Stefan Stefanov wrote: > Please, > > Help me with exchanging the harddrive of a running server with a > bigger one! > It is practically impossible to repeat all tricks and installations > again, there fore I want to clone the disk. > I have FC3 on 30 Gb disk and a new 200 Gb IDE disk. What did I do: Stefan, I'm sorry but you have posted this to the wrong discussion list. You should probably be posting this to fedora-list at redhat.com instead. Refer to http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/PostIsOffTopic for more information. -- Paul W. Frields, RHCE http://paul.frields.org/ gpg fingerprint: 3DA6 A0AC 6D58 FEC4 0233 5906 ACDB C937 BD11 3717 Fedora Documentation Project: http://fedora.redhat.com/projects/docs/ -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: signature.asc Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 189 bytes Desc: This is a digitally signed message part URL: From Tommy.Reynolds at MegaCoder.com Sat Jan 7 21:01:13 2006 From: Tommy.Reynolds at MegaCoder.com (Tommy Reynolds) Date: Sat, 7 Jan 2006 15:01:13 -0600 Subject: Separate directories for each Language for Release notes (and other docs) In-Reply-To: <1136643931.3533.1.camel@localhost.localdomain> References: <43BF3FC3.1060501@gmail.com> <1136613012.30698.57.camel@localhost.localdomain> <43BF58E5.70300@redhat.com> <1136613849.30698.65.camel@localhost.localdomain> <43BF5BAE.8020807@redhat.com> <1136614403.30698.68.camel@localhost.localdomain> <20060107074753.7408461c.Tommy.Reynolds@MegaCoder.com> <1136643931.3533.1.camel@localhost.localdomain> Message-ID: <20060107150113.ffb1595e.Tommy.Reynolds@MegaCoder.com> Uttered "Paul W. Frields" , spake thus: > > I propose deferring this reorganization until we get the RPM > > packaging stuff nailed down. Then we can just change the paths > > around a bit ;-) > Agreed, but I think we need some "thirds" and "me too's" before > proceeding since it will shake up CVS a little. *sigh* If only we used > Subversion. Yeah. Where the heck is Major Kong, er, I mean quaid? What would be so bad about using svn that we don't just use it. IIRC, it doesn't seem to require a server process, just a properly configured directory structure: similar to yum. Cheers -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 189 bytes Desc: not available URL: From kwade at redhat.com Sun Jan 8 06:43:44 2006 From: kwade at redhat.com (Karsten Wade) Date: Sat, 07 Jan 2006 22:43:44 -0800 Subject: Separate directories for each Language for Release notes (and other docs) In-Reply-To: <1136643931.3533.1.camel@localhost.localdomain> References: <43BF3FC3.1060501@gmail.com> <1136613012.30698.57.camel@localhost.localdomain> <43BF58E5.70300@redhat.com> <1136613849.30698.65.camel@localhost.localdomain> <43BF5BAE.8020807@redhat.com> <1136614403.30698.68.camel@localhost.localdomain> <20060107074753.7408461c.Tommy.Reynolds@MegaCoder.com> <1136643931.3533.1.camel@localhost.localdomain> Message-ID: <1136702625.8443.315.camel@erato.phig.org> On Sat, 2006-01-07 at 09:25 -0500, Paul W. Frields wrote: > > I propose deferring this reorganization until we get the RPM > > packaging stuff nailed down. Then we can just change the paths > > around a bit ;-) > > Agreed, but I think we need some "thirds" and "me too's" before > proceeding since it will shake up CVS a little. *sigh* If only we used > Subversion. Who, me? I don't care, as long as it makes sense. :) It's important to note that we had another reason for doing the "simply put them in the same directory." Translation runs a separate infrastructure, which we have not been part of. We actually should have been working on getting joined in. I don't know how the underlying CVS structure works, but it's definitely a different CVSROOT. So, rather than do all this work to change how translations are stored, we should instead work to join the method that the rest of the distro uses for translation. How does that sound? - Karsten -- Karsten Wade, RHCE * Sr. Tech Writer * http://people.redhat.com/kwade/ gpg fingerprint: 2680 DBFD D968 3141 0115 5F1B D992 0E06 AD0E 0C41 Content Services Fedora Documentation Project http://www.redhat.com/docs http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/DocsProject -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: signature.asc Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 189 bytes Desc: This is a digitally signed message part URL: From stickster at gmail.com Sun Jan 8 15:56:03 2006 From: stickster at gmail.com (Paul W. Frields) Date: Sun, 08 Jan 2006 10:56:03 -0500 Subject: Separate directories for each Language for Release notes (and other docs) In-Reply-To: <1136702625.8443.315.camel@erato.phig.org> References: <43BF3FC3.1060501@gmail.com> <1136613012.30698.57.camel@localhost.localdomain> <43BF58E5.70300@redhat.com> <1136613849.30698.65.camel@localhost.localdomain> <43BF5BAE.8020807@redhat.com> <1136614403.30698.68.camel@localhost.localdomain> <20060107074753.7408461c.Tommy.Reynolds@MegaCoder.com> <1136643931.3533.1.camel@localhost.localdomain> <1136702625.8443.315.camel@erato.phig.org> Message-ID: <1136735763.8863.1.camel@localhost.localdomain> On Sat, 2006-01-07 at 22:43 -0800, Karsten Wade wrote: > On Sat, 2006-01-07 at 09:25 -0500, Paul W. Frields wrote: > > > > I propose deferring this reorganization until we get the RPM > > > packaging stuff nailed down. Then we can just change the paths > > > around a bit ;-) > > > > Agreed, but I think we need some "thirds" and "me too's" before > > proceeding since it will shake up CVS a little. *sigh* If only we used > > Subversion. > > Who, me? I don't care, as long as it makes sense. :) > > It's important to note that we had another reason for doing the "simply > put them in the same directory." > > Translation runs a separate infrastructure, which we have not been part > of. We actually should have been working on getting joined in. > > I don't know how the underlying CVS structure works, but it's definitely > a different CVSROOT. > > So, rather than do all this work to change how translations are stored, > we should instead work to join the method that the rest of the distro > uses for translation. > > How does that sound? Oh right, this is part of the infrastructure that produces that sweet status report on translation progress, right? Is there anyone who can give us a primer on-list of how that works, and how we can best organize things on this side to integrate seamlessly? Maybe Sarah? -- Paul W. Frields, RHCE http://paul.frields.org/ gpg fingerprint: 3DA6 A0AC 6D58 FEC4 0233 5906 ACDB C937 BD11 3717 Fedora Documentation Project: http://fedora.redhat.com/projects/docs/ -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: signature.asc Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 189 bytes Desc: This is a digitally signed message part URL: From jfearn at redhat.com Sun Jan 8 23:05:30 2006 From: jfearn at redhat.com (Jeff Fearn) Date: Mon, 09 Jan 2006 09:05:30 +1000 Subject: Separate directories for each Language for Release notes (and other docs) In-Reply-To: <20060107150113.ffb1595e.Tommy.Reynolds@MegaCoder.com> References: <43BF3FC3.1060501@gmail.com> <1136613012.30698.57.camel@localhost.localdomain> <43BF58E5.70300@redhat.com> <1136613849.30698.65.camel@localhost.localdomain> <43BF5BAE.8020807@redhat.com> <1136614403.30698.68.camel@localhost.localdomain> <20060107074753.7408461c.Tommy.Reynolds@MegaCoder.com> <1136643931.3533.1.camel@localhost.localdomain> <20060107150113.ffb1595e.Tommy.Reynolds@MegaCoder.com> Message-ID: <1136761530.6193.5.camel@localhost.localdomain> On Sat, 2006-01-07 at 15:01 -0600, Tommy Reynolds wrote: > Uttered "Paul W. Frields" , spake thus: > > > > I propose deferring this reorganization until we get the RPM > > > packaging stuff nailed down. Then we can just change the paths > > > around a bit ;-) > > Agreed, but I think we need some "thirds" and "me too's" before > > proceeding since it will shake up CVS a little. *sigh* If only we used > > Subversion. > > Yeah. Where the heck is Major Kong, er, I mean quaid? > > What would be so bad about using svn that we don't just use it. > IIRC, it doesn't seem to require a server process, just a properly > configured directory structure: similar to yum. SVN rocks, but it does require a server process. It uses either BDB or a customised file system for storage, both of which need to be modified by the server process. It also supports wacky things like "move" and "symbolic links", which make modifying and maintaining complex directory structures a lot less painful. Vote 1 SVN! This has been an unpaid political announcement. -- Jeff Fearn gpg fingerprint:5FB4 61C4 8BE3 4DF6 F7FD 37B0 95C3 0F36 21DC 65C6 -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: signature.asc Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 189 bytes Desc: This is a digitally signed message part URL: From bbbush.yuan at gmail.com Mon Jan 9 07:25:21 2006 From: bbbush.yuan at gmail.com (Yuan Yijun) Date: Mon, 9 Jan 2006 15:25:21 +0800 Subject: release-notes FileSystems-it.xml, NONE, 1.1 ArchSpecific-it.xml, 1.1, 1.2 ArchSpecificPPC-it.xml, 1.1, 1.2 ArchSpecificx86_64-it.xml, 1.1, 1.2 ArchSpecificx86-it.xml, 1.1, 1.2 BackwardsCompatibility-it.xml, 1.1, 1.2 Colophon-it.xml, 1.1, 1.2 Data Message-ID: <76e72f800601082325l1bae857an@mail.gmail.com> 2006/1/9, tombo Francesco Tombolini : > Author: tombo > > Update of /cvs/docs/release-notes > In directory cvs-int.fedora.redhat.com:/tmp/cvs-serv15798 > > Modified Files: > ArchSpecific-it.xml ArchSpecificPPC-it.xml > ArchSpecificx86_64-it.xml ArchSpecificx86-it.xml > BackwardsCompatibility-it.xml Colophon-it.xml > DatabaseServers-it.xml DevelopmentToolsGCC-it.xml > DevelopmentToolsJava-it.xml Networking-it.xml > PackageNotes-it.xml RELEASE-NOTES-it.xml > SecuritySELinux-it.xml Welcome-it.xml > Added Files: > FileSystems-it.xml > Log Message: > compile ok - content need check > > Did you find anything strange in the latest -en version? Such as trademark tags are replaced by trademark characters, and the ulink "OpenFirmware"? There are a lot of LOCALVER replaced by "Fedora Core 5 test1", too. -- bbbush ^_^ From tsekine at sdri.co.jp Mon Jan 9 08:58:49 2006 From: tsekine at sdri.co.jp (SEKINE tatz Tatsuo) Date: Mon, 09 Jan 2006 17:58:49 +0900 (JST) Subject: duplication of ids in the Release Notes In-Reply-To: <76e72f800601082325l1bae857an@mail.gmail.com> References: <76e72f800601082325l1bae857an@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <20060109.175849.95299017.tsekine@sdri.co.jp> Hi, In the latest release notes, section id "sn-package-notes" is used twice. This duplication makes the HTML output broken. [prompt]$ grep sn-package-notes *-en.xml PackageChanges-en.xml:
PackageNotes-en.xml:
From stickster at gmail.com Mon Jan 9 13:36:46 2006 From: stickster at gmail.com (Paul W. Frields) Date: Mon, 09 Jan 2006 08:36:46 -0500 Subject: release-notes FileSystems-it.xml, NONE, 1.1 ArchSpecific-it.xml, 1.1, 1.2 ArchSpecificPPC-it.xml, 1.1, 1.2 ArchSpecificx86_64-it.xml, 1.1, 1.2 ArchSpecificx86-it.xml, 1.1, 1.2 BackwardsCompatibility-it.xml, 1.1, 1.2 Colophon-it.xml, 1.1, 1.2 Data In-Reply-To: <76e72f800601082325l1bae857an@mail.gmail.com> References: <76e72f800601082325l1bae857an@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <1136813806.5811.2.camel@localhost.localdomain> On Mon, 2006-01-09 at 15:25 +0800, Yuan Yijun wrote: > 2006/1/9, tombo Francesco Tombolini : > > Author: tombo > > > > Update of /cvs/docs/release-notes > > In directory cvs-int.fedora.redhat.com:/tmp/cvs-serv15798 > > > > Modified Files: > > ArchSpecific-it.xml ArchSpecificPPC-it.xml > > ArchSpecificx86_64-it.xml ArchSpecificx86-it.xml > > BackwardsCompatibility-it.xml Colophon-it.xml > > DatabaseServers-it.xml DevelopmentToolsGCC-it.xml > > DevelopmentToolsJava-it.xml Networking-it.xml > > PackageNotes-it.xml RELEASE-NOTES-it.xml > > SecuritySELinux-it.xml Welcome-it.xml > > Added Files: > > FileSystems-it.xml > > Log Message: > > compile ok - content need check > > > > > > Did you find anything strange in the latest -en version? Such as > trademark tags are replaced by trademark characters, and the ulink > "OpenFirmware"? There are a lot of LOCALVER replaced by "Fedora Core 5 > test1", too. Although I don't know for certain, I'm pretty sure this is a result of the porting in of the wiki contents to XML. The trademarks should be marked up on their first usage in the text with proper DocBook text, i.e.: ...IBM eServer pSeries... -- Paul W. Frields, RHCE http://paul.frields.org/ gpg fingerprint: 3DA6 A0AC 6D58 FEC4 0233 5906 ACDB C937 BD11 3717 Fedora Documentation Project: http://fedora.redhat.com/projects/docs/ -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: signature.asc Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 189 bytes Desc: This is a digitally signed message part URL: From kwade at redhat.com Mon Jan 9 21:03:04 2006 From: kwade at redhat.com (Karsten Wade) Date: Mon, 09 Jan 2006 13:03:04 -0800 Subject: release-notes FileSystems-it.xml, NONE, 1.1 ArchSpecific-it.xml, 1.1, 1.2 ArchSpecificPPC-it.xml, 1.1, 1.2 ArchSpecificx86_64-it.xml, 1.1, 1.2 ArchSpecificx86-it.xml, 1.1, 1.2 BackwardsCompatibility-it.xml, 1.1, 1.2 Colophon-it.xml, 1.1, 1.2 Data In-Reply-To: <1136813806.5811.2.camel@localhost.localdomain> References: <76e72f800601082325l1bae857an@mail.gmail.com> <1136813806.5811.2.camel@localhost.localdomain> Message-ID: <1136840584.8443.375.camel@erato.phig.org> On Mon, 2006-01-09 at 08:36 -0500, Paul W. Frields wrote: > On Mon, 2006-01-09 at 15:25 +0800, Yuan Yijun wrote: > > Did you find anything strange in the latest -en version? Such as > > trademark tags are replaced by trademark characters, and the ulink > > "OpenFirmware"? There are a lot of LOCALVER replaced by "Fedora Core 5 > > test1", too. That has all been cleaned up. Please use the content that has been tagged FC-5-TEST2-TRANS-FREEZE. You were looking at the markup before I had cleaned it up. > Although I don't know for certain, I'm pretty sure this is a result of > the porting in of the wiki contents to XML. The trademarks should be > marked up on their first usage in the text with proper DocBook text, > i.e.: > > ...IBM class="trade">eServer class="trade">pSeries... True, except we do not put trademarks on anything. Our legalnotice now says: All other trademarks and copyrights referred to are the property of their respective owners. That covers everything, and is lawyer approved. So, I removed the trademark characters and did not replace them with markup. - Karsten -- Karsten Wade, RHCE * Sr. Tech Writer * http://people.redhat.com/kwade/ gpg fingerprint: 2680 DBFD D968 3141 0115 5F1B D992 0E06 AD0E 0C41 Content Services Fedora Documentation Project http://www.redhat.com/docs http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/DocsProject -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: signature.asc Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 189 bytes Desc: This is a digitally signed message part URL: From kwade at redhat.com Tue Jan 10 19:40:53 2006 From: kwade at redhat.com (Karsten Wade) Date: Tue, 10 Jan 2006 11:40:53 -0800 Subject: problem with relnotes build [HELP] Message-ID: <1136922054.8443.471.camel@erato.phig.org> I'm having problems with building the release-notes currently from HEAD in CVS[1]. The essence of the error from xmlto[2] is: "I don't like the stuff that comes after the
declaration, it's not the right sort of thing according to the DTD, and here is a list of what I expect ..." However, what it expects includes , which is what immediately follows!
&FC; &LOCALVER; Release Notes 2006 &FORMAL-RHI; &LEGALNOTICE-RELNOTES; I have combed through the entities, the supporting files, such as the legalnotice pieces, have recreated the entire content block using automatic tag creation, and looked at the differences between this current version and many earlier versions. I cannot find anything that would cause this. I suspect that it is something wrong or missing in the header. It could be the new DOCID structure? Seems OK, though ... Perhaps I'm missing an ENTITY? I don't see one from previous versions ... tia - Karsten [1] viewcvs of content http://cvs.fedora.redhat.com/viewcvs/release-notes/?root=docs http://cvs.fedora.redhat.com/viewcvs/release-notes/RELEASE-NOTES-en.xml?root=docs&rev=1.16&view=markup [2] xmlto error output make html LANG=en.UTF-8 xmlto html -x /home/kwade/Documents/projects/fedora/cvs- docs/release-notes/../docs-common/xsl/main-html.xsl -o RELEASE-NOTES-en RELEASE-NOTES-en.xml xmlto: input does not validate (status 3) /home/kwade/Documents/projects/fedora/cvs-docs/release-notes/RELEASE- NOTES-en.xml:67: element article: validity error : Element article content does not follow the DTD, expecting ((title , subtitle? , titleabbrev?)? , articleinfo? , tocchap? , lot* , (((calloutlist | glosslist | itemizedlist | orderedlist | segmentedlist | simplelist | variablelist | caution | important | note | tip | warning | literallayout | programlisting | programlistingco | screen | screenco | screenshot | synopsis | cmdsynopsis | funcsynopsis | classsynopsis | fieldsynopsis | constructorsynopsis | destructorsynopsis | methodsynopsis | formalpara | para | simpara | address | blockquote | graphic | graphicco | mediaobject | mediaobjectco | informalequation | informalexample | informalfigure | informaltable | equation | example | figure | table | msgset | procedure | sidebar | qandaset | anchor | bridgehead | remark | highlights | abstract | authorblurb | epigraph | indexterm | beginpage)+ , (sect1* | refentry* | simplesect* | section*)) | sect1+ | refentry+ | simplesect+ | section+) , ((toc | lot | index | glossary | bibliography) | appendix | ackno)*), got (articleinfo CDATA CDATA CDATA CDATA CDATA CDATA CDATA CDATA CDATA CDATA CDATA CDATA ) Document /home/kwade/Documents/projects/fedora/cvs-docs/release- notes/RELEASE-NOTES-en.xml does not validate make: *** [RELEASE-NOTES-en/index.html] Error 3 -- Karsten Wade, RHCE * Sr. Tech Writer * http://people.redhat.com/kwade/ gpg fingerprint: 2680 DBFD D968 3141 0115 5F1B D992 0E06 AD0E 0C41 Content Services Fedora Documentation Project http://www.redhat.com/docs http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/DocsProject -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: signature.asc Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 189 bytes Desc: This is a digitally signed message part URL: From kwade at redhat.com Tue Jan 10 21:54:34 2006 From: kwade at redhat.com (Karsten Wade) Date: Tue, 10 Jan 2006 13:54:34 -0800 Subject: problem with relnotes build [HELP] In-Reply-To: <1136922054.8443.471.camel@erato.phig.org> References: <1136922054.8443.471.camel@erato.phig.org> Message-ID: <1136930075.8443.479.camel@erato.phig.org> On Tue, 2006-01-10 at 11:40 -0800, Karsten Wade wrote: > I'm having problems with building the release-notes currently from HEAD > in CVS[1]. The second file called in, OverView-en.xml, had a stray close comment mark: --> Thanks to Chris Lennert for finding it, Paul W. Frields for clever use of xmllint to figure out which file was the problematic one, and the FDSCo team for working on it instead of our meeting today. - Karsten > The essence of the error from xmlto[2] is: > > "I don't like the stuff that comes after the
declaration, it's > not the right sort of thing according to the DTD, and here is a list of > what I expect ..." > > However, what it expects includes , which is what > immediately follows! > >
> > &FC; &LOCALVER; Release Notes > > 2006 > &FORMAL-RHI; > > &LEGALNOTICE-RELNOTES; > > > I have combed through the entities, the supporting files, such as the > legalnotice pieces, have recreated the entire content block using > automatic tag creation, and looked at the differences between this > current version and many earlier versions. > > I cannot find anything that would cause this. I suspect that it is > something wrong or missing in the header. It could be the > new DOCID structure? Seems OK, though ... Perhaps I'm missing an > ENTITY? I don't see one from previous versions ... > > tia - Karsten > > [1] viewcvs of content > http://cvs.fedora.redhat.com/viewcvs/release-notes/?root=docs > http://cvs.fedora.redhat.com/viewcvs/release-notes/RELEASE-NOTES-en.xml?root=docs&rev=1.16&view=markup > > [2] xmlto error output > make html > LANG=en.UTF-8 xmlto html -x /home/kwade/Documents/projects/fedora/cvs- > docs/release-notes/../docs-common/xsl/main-html.xsl -o RELEASE-NOTES-en > RELEASE-NOTES-en.xml > xmlto: input does not validate (status 3) > /home/kwade/Documents/projects/fedora/cvs-docs/release-notes/RELEASE- > NOTES-en.xml:67: element article: validity error : Element article > content does not follow the DTD, expecting ((title , subtitle? , > titleabbrev?)? , articleinfo? , tocchap? , lot* , (((calloutlist | > glosslist | itemizedlist | orderedlist | segmentedlist | simplelist | > variablelist | caution | important | note | tip | warning | > literallayout | programlisting | programlistingco | screen | screenco | > screenshot | synopsis | cmdsynopsis | funcsynopsis | classsynopsis | > fieldsynopsis | constructorsynopsis | destructorsynopsis | > methodsynopsis | formalpara | para | simpara | address | blockquote | > graphic | graphicco | mediaobject | mediaobjectco | informalequation | > informalexample | informalfigure | informaltable | equation | example | > figure | table | msgset | procedure | sidebar | qandaset | anchor | > bridgehead | remark | highlights | abstract | authorblurb | epigraph | > indexterm | beginpage)+ , (sect1* | refentry* | simplesect* | section*)) > | sect1+ | refentry+ | simplesect+ | section+) , ((toc | lot | index | > glossary | bibliography) | appendix | ackno)*), got (articleinfo CDATA > CDATA CDATA CDATA CDATA CDATA CDATA CDATA CDATA CDATA CDATA CDATA ) > Document /home/kwade/Documents/projects/fedora/cvs-docs/release- > notes/RELEASE-NOTES-en.xml does not validate > make: *** [RELEASE-NOTES-en/index.html] Error 3 > > -- > fedora-docs-list mailing list > fedora-docs-list at redhat.com > To unsubscribe: > https://www.redhat.com/mailman/listinfo/fedora-docs-list -- Karsten Wade, RHCE * Sr. Tech Writer * http://people.redhat.com/kwade/ gpg fingerprint: 2680 DBFD D968 3141 0115 5F1B D992 0E06 AD0E 0C41 Content Services Fedora Documentation Project http://www.redhat.com/docs http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/DocsProject -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: signature.asc Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 189 bytes Desc: This is a digitally signed message part URL: From kwade at redhat.com Tue Jan 10 21:59:54 2006 From: kwade at redhat.com (Karsten Wade) Date: Tue, 10 Jan 2006 13:59:54 -0800 Subject: relnotes freeze in CVS 0400 UTC 11 Januar 2006 Message-ID: <1136930394.8443.486.camel@erato.phig.org> Later today we are going to tag whatever is in the release-notes module for the test2 ISO spin. This coming weekend there is another (announced) publishing of content from CVS to the Web at http://fedora.redhat.com/docs/release-notes/ . That publishing includes all translations at whatever stage they are in. Thanks for your patience as we work through this (slightly) painful process. - Karsten -- Karsten Wade, RHCE * Sr. Tech Writer * http://people.redhat.com/kwade/ gpg fingerprint: 2680 DBFD D968 3141 0115 5F1B D992 0E06 AD0E 0C41 Content Services Fedora Documentation Project http://www.redhat.com/docs http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/DocsProject -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: signature.asc Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 189 bytes Desc: This is a digitally signed message part URL: From info at kampnytt.com Fri Jan 13 01:45:36 2006 From: info at kampnytt.com (Mikael Jacobsson) Date: Fri, 13 Jan 2006 02:45:36 +0100 Subject: Self-Introduction: MikaelJacobsson Message-ID: <43C70640.4040407@kampnytt.com> 1. Full legal name: Mikael Jacobsson * City, Country; Sk?vde, Sweden * Profession or Student status: Currently unemployed * Company or School: n/a * Your goals in the Fedora Project o To promote Fedora in Sweden o Assist swedish fedora users through my website. o Translate documents to swedish to be used both on my site and in the Fedora Project website. o Any other projects where im needed. Don't know what yet. I joined it all this week. * Historical qualifications o What other projects or writing have you worked on in the past? I have runned a internet magazine about sports from 2002 to 2004. o What level and type of computer skills do you have? I have used computers since 95, know enough about linux and windows to install, configure and use. I have educations in webdesign, basic computer knowledge and more. o What makes you an excellent match for the project? I like fedora ;) and i always do the things i say i will, i like working for good projects. I have for as long as i can remember, been involved in different projects where helping others is the main issue, and doing it without charging for the time spent. * GPG KEYID and fingerprint o Key ID: 1018A10D Key fingerprint = CF75 EEB6 9136 3BD1 0E95 ACB7 EC05 87AD 1018 A10D -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From Tommy.Reynolds at MegaCoder.com Fri Jan 13 03:21:26 2006 From: Tommy.Reynolds at MegaCoder.com (Tommy Reynolds) Date: Thu, 12 Jan 2006 21:21:26 -0600 Subject: Making a case for ".cvsignore" again ;-) Message-ID: <20060112212126.cb73ef38.Tommy.Reynolds@MegaCoder.com> Hello, All! The new packaging technology Stickster and I are completing is based on keeping all of the meta-information about a document (authors, license, changelog and such) in a separate file "rpm-info.xml". This will make it much easier to keep the ; ; RPM spec file; and changelogs all in sync. There is a DTD file in "docs-common/packaging/rpm-info.dtd" that defines how this file is to be constructed. A new language-specific file, "fdp-info-${LANG}.xml", will be generated based on the "rpm-info.xml" file. It will contain the or content. The base document will then include the "fdp-info-${LANG}.xml" file using an entity reference. The "Makefile.common" rules will generate this file any time "rpm-info.xml" is changed. Every document will have the following file dependency chain: rpm-info.xml ==> fdp-info-${LANG}.xml ==> document-${LANG}/index.html The "rpm-info.xml" file gets manually updated, the "fdp-info-${LANG}.xml" file gets rebuilt and then the document is rebuilt. My recommendation is that the "fdp-info-${LANG}.xml" files NOT be archived in CVS. They are derivative files and archiving them in CVS may mess up the file timestamps such that after a "cvs update" the document may not rebuild correctly. I think this is a job for ".cvsignore", to prevent the inadvertent archiving of these files: ========= .cvsignore ============= fdp-info-*.xml ================================== should do the trick. Then even if an "fdp-info-${LANG}.xml" file gets archived, CVS will simply ignore the archived version on updates and ignore the local version on commits. There has been prior resistance to having a ".cvsignore" file in the CVS archive itself (although having your own local one is just fine), but this may require more thought. I like the idea of having this preventative file in CVS. What do others prefer? Cheers -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 189 bytes Desc: not available URL: From kwade at redhat.com Fri Jan 13 07:59:48 2006 From: kwade at redhat.com (Karsten Wade) Date: Thu, 12 Jan 2006 23:59:48 -0800 Subject: Making a case for ".cvsignore" again ;-) In-Reply-To: <20060112212126.cb73ef38.Tommy.Reynolds@MegaCoder.com> References: <20060112212126.cb73ef38.Tommy.Reynolds@MegaCoder.com> Message-ID: <1137139188.1384.216.camel@erato.phig.org> On Thu, 2006-01-12 at 21:21 -0600, Tommy Reynolds wrote: > My recommendation is that the "fdp-info-${LANG}.xml" files NOT be > archived in CVS. They are derivative files and archiving them in CVS > may mess up the file timestamps such that after a "cvs update" the > document may not rebuild correctly. Agreed. Generated files should not be in CVS. Obvious exceptions are files that are generated in another location, such as graphics. > I think this is a job for ".cvsignore", to prevent the inadvertent > archiving of these files: > > ========= .cvsignore ============= > fdp-info-*.xml > ================================== > > should do the trick. Then even if an "fdp-info-${LANG}.xml" file > gets archived, CVS will simply ignore the archived version on updates > and ignore the local version on commits. > > There has been prior resistance to having a ".cvsignore" file in the > CVS archive itself (although having your own local one is just fine), > but this may require more thought. I like the idea of having this > preventative file in CVS. I don't recall the objections to a .cvsignore file in CVS itself. In fact, that sounds quite elegant to me. We could put one in all the modules, populated to start with the fdp-info-*.xml - Karsten -- Karsten Wade, RHCE * Sr. Tech Writer * http://people.redhat.com/kwade/ gpg fingerprint: 2680 DBFD D968 3141 0115 5F1B D992 0E06 AD0E 0C41 Content Services Fedora Documentation Project http://www.redhat.com/docs http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/DocsProject -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: signature.asc Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 189 bytes Desc: This is a digitally signed message part URL: From sarahs at redhat.com Fri Jan 13 11:40:43 2006 From: sarahs at redhat.com (Sarah Wang) Date: Fri, 13 Jan 2006 21:40:43 +1000 Subject: New Fedora Translation Project Maintainers Message-ID: <1137152443.5018.1.camel@localhost.localdomain> Hi everyone, I'm very pleased to announce that we now have a couple of new maintainers for the Fedora Translation Project: Amanpreet Singh Alam Chester Cheng >From now on, they will assume the responsibility of coordinating the Fedora Translation efforts and lead this project to the next level. Chester has authored the translation guide for Windows users. Aman has built the Punjabi translation team that integrated some major Open Source projects such as Gnome, KDE, and Open Office into Fedora translation. They both have been enthusiastic contributors and coordinators for this project over the years. So good that I have no reservations in turning over the leadership role to them. I view this change as a very positive one. It will no doubt bring fresh perspectives to the Fedora Translation Project, and increase the response time to your queries and concerns. I would like to thank everyone for the patience and support you have given me over the years. I hope you would extend the same support to our new Project maintainers and continue contributing to the overall success of Fedora. Sarah From kwade at redhat.com Fri Jan 13 16:06:46 2006 From: kwade at redhat.com (Karsten Wade) Date: Fri, 13 Jan 2006 08:06:46 -0800 Subject: Making a case for ".cvsignore" again ;-) In-Reply-To: <20060112212126.cb73ef38.Tommy.Reynolds@MegaCoder.com> References: <20060112212126.cb73ef38.Tommy.Reynolds@MegaCoder.com> Message-ID: <1137168406.1384.240.camel@erato.phig.org> On Thu, 2006-01-12 at 21:21 -0600, Tommy Reynolds wrote: > ========= .cvsignore ============= > fdp-info-*.xml > ================================== Wonder if there is a method to have a global cvsignore file that gets called first, then people add their own underneath? I'd add to it: *~ ;-) - Karsten -- Karsten Wade, RHCE * Sr. Tech Writer * http://people.redhat.com/kwade/ gpg fingerprint: 2680 DBFD D968 3141 0115 5F1B D992 0E06 AD0E 0C41 Content Services Fedora Documentation Project http://www.redhat.com/docs http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/DocsProject -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: signature.asc Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 189 bytes Desc: This is a digitally signed message part URL: From stickster at gmail.com Fri Jan 13 21:47:09 2006 From: stickster at gmail.com (Paul W. Frields) Date: Fri, 13 Jan 2006 16:47:09 -0500 Subject: Making a case for ".cvsignore" again ;-) In-Reply-To: <1137168406.1384.240.camel@erato.phig.org> References: <20060112212126.cb73ef38.Tommy.Reynolds@MegaCoder.com> <1137168406.1384.240.camel@erato.phig.org> Message-ID: <1137188829.26070.0.camel@localhost.localdomain> On Fri, 2006-01-13 at 08:06 -0800, Karsten Wade wrote: > On Thu, 2006-01-12 at 21:21 -0600, Tommy Reynolds wrote: > > ========= .cvsignore ============= > > fdp-info-*.xml > > ================================== > > Wonder if there is a method to have a global cvsignore file that gets > called first, then people add their own underneath? > > I'd add to it: > > *~ > > ;-) Hear, hear. -- Paul W. Frields, RHCE http://paul.frields.org/ gpg fingerprint: 3DA6 A0AC 6D58 FEC4 0233 5906 ACDB C937 BD11 3717 Fedora Documentation Project: http://fedora.redhat.com/projects/docs/ -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: signature.asc Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 189 bytes Desc: This is a digitally signed message part URL: From Tommy.Reynolds at MegaCoder.com Fri Jan 13 23:35:55 2006 From: Tommy.Reynolds at MegaCoder.com (Tommy Reynolds) Date: Fri, 13 Jan 2006 17:35:55 -0600 Subject: Making a case for ".cvsignore" again ;-) In-Reply-To: <1137188829.26070.0.camel@localhost.localdomain> References: <20060112212126.cb73ef38.Tommy.Reynolds@MegaCoder.com> <1137168406.1384.240.camel@erato.phig.org> <1137188829.26070.0.camel@localhost.localdomain> Message-ID: <20060113173555.35e5f3e5.Tommy.Reynolds@MegaCoder.com> Uttered "Paul W. Frields" , spake thus: > > Wonder if there is a method to have a global cvsignore file that gets > > called first, then people add their own underneath? Yup. I just added one with the "fdp-info-*.xml" glob pattern. > > I'd add to it: > > *~ According to the CVS docs, this pattern is already a default. > Hear, hear. I hear and obey. -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 189 bytes Desc: not available URL: From Tommy.Reynolds at MegaCoder.com Sat Jan 14 12:58:26 2006 From: Tommy.Reynolds at MegaCoder.com (Tommy Reynolds) Date: Sat, 14 Jan 2006 06:58:26 -0600 Subject: CVS tag naming conventions Message-ID: <20060114065826.98e1f048.Tommy.Reynolds@MegaCoder.com> Hello, Folks! I just realized that when CVS tagging a document revision, it is not sufficient to tag only the document directory: one must also tag the building infrastructure in "docs-common/". Tags are fast, cheap and easy, so we can use as many as we like. Using a command such as: $ cvs tag docs-common example-tutorial will make it easy to reproduce a document any time in the future. Here comes my question: Since tags will be shared among all documents that use "docs-common/", how should tags be formed? Perhaps something such as "cvs tag example-tutorial-foo docs-common example-tutorial" where the "foo" is up to you. A tag can get project-wide, "example-tutorial-FC5_test2", or very local, "example-tutorial-corrected-typo". Questions? Comments? Suggestions? Donations? -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 189 bytes Desc: not available URL: From kwade at redhat.com Sat Jan 14 18:13:27 2006 From: kwade at redhat.com (Karsten Wade) Date: Sat, 14 Jan 2006 10:13:27 -0800 Subject: CVS tag naming conventions In-Reply-To: <20060114065826.98e1f048.Tommy.Reynolds@MegaCoder.com> References: <20060114065826.98e1f048.Tommy.Reynolds@MegaCoder.com> Message-ID: <1137262408.1384.332.camel@erato.phig.org> On Sat, 2006-01-14 at 06:58 -0600, Tommy Reynolds wrote: > Hello, Folks! > > I just realized that when CVS tagging a document revision, it is not > sufficient to tag only the document directory: one must also tag the > building infrastructure in "docs-common/". Tags are fast, cheap and > easy, so we can use as many as we like. This is not a disagreement, just a contrast with a few things I've seen (admittedly very few, CVS newbie that I am). Lots of tags can make for a messy 'cvs status -v *'. OK, that's fine, but an usage of tagging at a directory root with default recursive behavior can mean many files being tagged that are not involved in the tag. That can be a bit confusing, aside from pulling in extraneous stuff for the checkout. So, imagining that everyone is tagging content in docs-common with each tag ... and you are correct, that is necessary to make it work tagging work ... oy, vey! It makes my brain hurt. Is this just what happens in a CVS repo over time? I used a proprietary SCM for a while (Perforce) that gives *each* check- in a unique, sequential ID. You can not only refer to them by ID, just like we do with bugzilla reports, but that ID is also a tag of that check-in. It is representative of the entire repo at the time of the ID creation, and you can just get the pieces you want. SVN do that by any chance? > Using a command such as: > > $ cvs tag docs-common example-tutorial > > will make it easy to reproduce a document any time in the future. > > Here comes my question: > > Since tags will be shared among all documents that use > "docs-common/", how should tags be formed? There has been a tradition of using ALL-CAPITALS. Sopwith requested that they be explicit, so we've been using e.g. FC-5-TEST1-TRANS-FREEZE, FC-5-TEST1-LATEST, etc. > Perhaps something such as "cvs tag example-tutorial-foo docs-common > example-tutorial" where the "foo" is up to you. A tag can get > project-wide, "example-tutorial-FC5_test2", or very local, > "example-tutorial-corrected-typo". Ah, interesting, include the module in the tag. That means you can use grep to sort out just the tags that are meaningful to you. I think having the module exactly like the module name (lower case), and then the data in ALL CAPS might make it easier to visually parse the information. release-notes-FC-5-TEST3-LATEST-WEB-SNAPSHOT installation-guide-FC-5-TEST3-BETA-UPDATES Let's discuss this some more. :) - Karsten -- Karsten Wade, RHCE * Sr. Tech Writer * http://people.redhat.com/kwade/ gpg fingerprint: 2680 DBFD D968 3141 0115 5F1B D992 0E06 AD0E 0C41 Content Services Fedora Documentation Project http://www.redhat.com/docs http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/DocsProject -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: signature.asc Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 189 bytes Desc: This is a digitally signed message part URL: From stickster at gmail.com Sat Jan 14 18:44:04 2006 From: stickster at gmail.com (Paul W. Frields) Date: Sat, 14 Jan 2006 13:44:04 -0500 Subject: CVS tag naming conventions In-Reply-To: <1137262408.1384.332.camel@erato.phig.org> References: <20060114065826.98e1f048.Tommy.Reynolds@MegaCoder.com> <1137262408.1384.332.camel@erato.phig.org> Message-ID: <1137264244.333.18.camel@localhost.localdomain> On Sat, 2006-01-14 at 10:13 -0800, Karsten Wade wrote: > I used a proprietary SCM for a while (Perforce) that gives *each* check- > in a unique, sequential ID. You can not only refer to them by ID, just > like we do with bugzilla reports, but that ID is also a tag of that > check-in. It is representative of the entire repo at the time of the ID > creation, and you can just get the pieces you want. > > SVN do that by any chance? Yup, exactly what it does. The revision number, basically an integer counting up from 1 (0 if you count the instantiation of the empty repo), is a reference to the entire repository state. So whereas we use "cvs -r1.3 ", where 1.3 is specific to , in Subversion "cvs -r485 " is perfectly sane and refers to two disparate files' state at a specific point in time. That's why a command like "svn mv" is trivial in SVN, but has an ugly counterpart in CVS! -- Paul W. Frields, RHCE http://paul.frields.org/ gpg fingerprint: 3DA6 A0AC 6D58 FEC4 0233 5906 ACDB C937 BD11 3717 Fedora Documentation Project: http://fedora.redhat.com/projects/docs/ -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: signature.asc Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 189 bytes Desc: This is a digitally signed message part URL: From Tommy.Reynolds at MegaCoder.com Sat Jan 14 18:45:50 2006 From: Tommy.Reynolds at MegaCoder.com (Tommy Reynolds) Date: Sat, 14 Jan 2006 12:45:50 -0600 Subject: CVS tag naming conventions In-Reply-To: <1137262408.1384.332.camel@erato.phig.org> References: <20060114065826.98e1f048.Tommy.Reynolds@MegaCoder.com> <1137262408.1384.332.camel@erato.phig.org> Message-ID: <20060114124550.bf5167fa.Tommy.Reynolds@MegaCoder.com> Uttered Karsten Wade , spake thus: > > I just realized that when CVS tagging a document revision, it is not > > sufficient to tag only the document directory: one must also tag the > > building infrastructure in "docs-common/". Tags are fast, cheap and > > easy, so we can use as many as we like. > Lots of tags can make for a messy 'cvs status -v *'. OK, that's fine, > but an usage of tagging at a directory root with default recursive > behavior can mean many files being tagged that are not involved in the > tag. That can be a bit confusing, aside from pulling in extraneous > stuff for the checkout. Er... snapshotting the status of _all_ the files in the resources directories is exactly the goal, isn't it? One tag == one environment. > So, imagining that everyone is tagging content in docs-common with each > tag ... and you are correct, that is necessary to make it work tagging > work ... oy, vey! It makes my brain hurt. Durn tootin! The "cvs log" and "cvs status" commands get ugly quickly, but I don't use them much ;-) > Is this just what happens in a CVS repo over time? Yup. That's just how CVS works. > I used a proprietary SCM for a while (Perforce) that gives *each* check- > in a unique, sequential ID. You can not only refer to them by ID, just > like we do with bugzilla reports, but that ID is also a tag of that > check-in. It is representative of the entire repo at the time of the ID > creation, and you can just get the pieces you want. > SVN do that by any chance? Yes, others SCM's use a "change-set" property for exactly that purpose. AFAIK, cvs(1) just does not have that capability other than the "tag"; at least the tag can be nearly anything that does not look like a revision number. > > Since tags will be shared among all documents that use > > "docs-common/", how should tags be formed? > There has been a tradition of using ALL-CAPITALS. Sopwith requested > that they be explicit, so we've been using e.g. FC-5-TEST1-TRANS-FREEZE, > FC-5-TEST1-LATEST, etc. OK by me, but no wonder your brain aches from looking at a long tags list in capitals ;-) > > "example-tutorial-corrected-typo". > Ah, interesting, include the module in the tag. That means you can use > grep to sort out just the tags that are meaningful to you. Yup. Not an accident. When we tag "docs-common/" along with the document directory, we need a tag namespace rule to avoid collisions. > I think having the module exactly like the module name (lower case), and > then the data in ALL CAPS might make it easier to visually parse the > information. If you don't mind BEING SHOUTED AT ;-) > Let's discuss this some more. :) I'd like to hear from someone with heavy SVN experience; I'm only an egg. Cheers -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 189 bytes Desc: not available URL: From stuart at elsn.org Sun Jan 15 21:36:10 2006 From: stuart at elsn.org (Stuart Ellis) Date: Sun, 15 Jan 2006 21:36:10 +0000 Subject: Self-Introduction: MikaelJacobsson In-Reply-To: <43C70640.4040407@kampnytt.com> References: <43C70640.4040407@kampnytt.com> Message-ID: <1137360970.7056.36.camel@localhost.localdomain> On Fri, 2006-01-13 at 02:45 +0100, Mikael Jacobsson wrote: > 1. Full legal name: Mikael Jacobsson > > > * City, Country; Sk?vde, Sweden > > > * Profession or Student status: Currently unemployed > > > * Company or School: n/a > > > * Your goals in the Fedora Project > > * To promote Fedora in Sweden > > > * Assist swedish fedora users through my website. > > > * Translate documents to swedish to be used both on my > site and in the Fedora Project website. > > > * Any other projects where im needed. Don't know what > yet. I joined it all this week. Welcome, and sorry for the late reply. If you haven't already found them, some of these projects may interest you: The Fedora Ambassadors project, for people interested in promoting and supporting Fedora (and Open Source generally) in their region: http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Ambassadors The webpage for the Fedora Translation project, which has a link for signing up as a translator: http://fedora.redhat.com/About/Projects/translations/ If you are also interested in writing material, we have several documents in progress: http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Docs/Drafts The list of unclaimed ideas is here: http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/DocsProject/DocIdeas Or you could propose your own. Finally, details on the new initiative to develop the Fedora websites are here: http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Websites The first web development meeting is due to be held this week (17th Jan at 19:00 UTC). -- Stuart Ellis stuart at elsn.org Fedora Documentation Project: http://fedora.redhat.com/projects/docs/ GPG key ID: 7098ABEA GPG key fingerprint: 68B0 E291 FB19 C845 E60E 9569 292E E365 7098 ABEA -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: signature.asc Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 189 bytes Desc: This is a digitally signed message part URL: From jfearn at redhat.com Mon Jan 16 00:41:48 2006 From: jfearn at redhat.com (Jeff Fearn) Date: Mon, 16 Jan 2006 10:41:48 +1000 Subject: CVS tag naming conventions In-Reply-To: <20060114124550.bf5167fa.Tommy.Reynolds@MegaCoder.com> References: <20060114065826.98e1f048.Tommy.Reynolds@MegaCoder.com> <1137262408.1384.332.camel@erato.phig.org> <20060114124550.bf5167fa.Tommy.Reynolds@MegaCoder.com> Message-ID: <1137372108.15161.16.camel@localhost.localdomain> On Sat, 2006-01-14 at 12:45 -0600, Tommy Reynolds wrote: > Uttered Karsten Wade , spake thus: > > > > I just realized that when CVS tagging a document revision, it is not > > > sufficient to tag only the document directory: one must also tag the > > > building infrastructure in "docs-common/". Tags are fast, cheap and > > > easy, so we can use as many as we like. > > Lots of tags can make for a messy 'cvs status -v *'. OK, that's fine, > > but an usage of tagging at a directory root with default recursive > > behavior can mean many files being tagged that are not involved in the > > tag. That can be a bit confusing, aside from pulling in extraneous > > stuff for the checkout. > > Er... snapshotting the status of _all_ the files in the resources > directories is exactly the goal, isn't it? > > One tag == one environment. > > > So, imagining that everyone is tagging content in docs-common with each > > tag ... and you are correct, that is necessary to make it work tagging > > work ... oy, vey! It makes my brain hurt. > > Durn tootin! The "cvs log" and "cvs status" commands get ugly > quickly, but I don't use them much ;-) > > > Is this just what happens in a CVS repo over time? > > Yup. That's just how CVS works. > > > I used a proprietary SCM for a while (Perforce) that gives *each* check- > > in a unique, sequential ID. You can not only refer to them by ID, just > > like we do with bugzilla reports, but that ID is also a tag of that > > check-in. It is representative of the entire repo at the time of the ID > > creation, and you can just get the pieces you want. > > SVN do that by any chance? > > Yes, others SCM's use a "change-set" property for exactly that > purpose. AFAIK, cvs(1) just does not have that capability other than > the "tag"; at least the tag can be nearly anything that does not look > like a revision number. > > > > Since tags will be shared among all documents that use > > > "docs-common/", how should tags be formed? > > There has been a tradition of using ALL-CAPITALS. Sopwith requested > > that they be explicit, so we've been using e.g. FC-5-TEST1-TRANS-FREEZE, > > FC-5-TEST1-LATEST, etc. > > OK by me, but no wonder your brain aches from looking at a long tags > list in capitals ;-) > > > > "example-tutorial-corrected-typo". > > Ah, interesting, include the module in the tag. That means you can use > > grep to sort out just the tags that are meaningful to you. > > Yup. Not an accident. When we tag "docs-common/" along with the > document directory, we need a tag namespace rule to avoid collisions. > > > I think having the module exactly like the module name (lower case), and > > then the data in ALL CAPS might make it easier to visually parse the > > information. > > If you don't mind BEING SHOUTED AT ;-) > > > Let's discuss this some more. :) > > I'd like to hear from someone with heavy SVN experience; I'm only an > egg. The SVN approach to this would be to create a new TAG, which is a snapshot. Peeps would then checkout this new TAG. Basically this is a cheap form of branching. trunk is svn's equivalent of cvs's HEAD. svn copy http://server/repos/mydoc/trunk http://server/repos/tags/mydoc/SNAPSHOT1.2 -m "Snapshot for 1.2" Then others would svn co http://server/repos/mydoc/tags/SNAPSHOT1.2 SNAPSHOT1.2 Each book could be copied over to SNAPSHOT1.2 as it is finished. You can enforce read only status in the tags directory which would prevent updating those files. You can do that on a per user basis, so last minute changes could be added if the "right people" thought it necessary. Note that in SVN I think the capitalisation adds nothing and is WRONG! ;) -- Jeff Fearn gpg fingerprint:5FB4 61C4 8BE3 4DF6 F7FD 37B0 95C3 0F36 21DC 65C6 -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: signature.asc Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 189 bytes Desc: This is a digitally signed message part URL: From sundaram at redhat.com Mon Jan 16 14:09:40 2006 From: sundaram at redhat.com (Rahul Sundaram) Date: Mon, 16 Jan 2006 19:39:40 +0530 Subject: Fedora Projects weekly report Message-ID: <43CBA924.3070400@redhat.com> Hi We have a new effort in place to provide weekly reports on the all different Fedora sub projects. http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Projects/WeeklyReports Someone within the documentation team, kindly step up as a report writer. Meeting mins, note worthy discussions in mailing lists, major bugs and feature enhancements, upcoming changes, progress reports and unbiased editorial comments and constructive criticisms can be included. String freeze will be made every Friday of the week to enable translators to do their work. Announcements will be made as part of Fedora News (http://fedoranews.org) on the subsequent Monday. Let me know if you require any clarifications on this. -- Rahul Fedora Bug Triaging - http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/BugZappers From kwade at redhat.com Mon Jan 16 16:41:20 2006 From: kwade at redhat.com (Karsten Wade) Date: Mon, 16 Jan 2006 08:41:20 -0800 Subject: help posting relnotes to Web Message-ID: <1137429681.1384.399.camel@erato.phig.org> If anyone has a few minutes, can you help me by posting the latest release-notes from CVS to the Web? You can follow the pages from http://fedora.redhat.com/docs/release- notes with new links for FC5 test2. test1 can be left in the table below and test2 highlighted. The Tip box has two kind of links: * The first is to the absolute latest in CVS HEAD. * The second to what is tagged FC-5-TEST2-TRANS-FREEZE. There may be more languages available in HEAD, please test by uncommenting in the Makefile and running test builds, along with what you know from fedora-docs-commits. I will check back in a few hours and see if help is needed. thx - Karsten, the deadline guy -- Karsten Wade, RHCE * Sr. Tech Writer * http://people.redhat.com/kwade/ gpg fingerprint: 2680 DBFD D968 3141 0115 5F1B D992 0E06 AD0E 0C41 Content Services Fedora Documentation Project http://www.redhat.com/docs http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/DocsProject -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: signature.asc Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 189 bytes Desc: This is a digitally signed message part URL: From stickster at gmail.com Mon Jan 16 17:55:51 2006 From: stickster at gmail.com (Paul W. Frields) Date: Mon, 16 Jan 2006 12:55:51 -0500 Subject: Current IG Build Gives Duplicate Legal Notice In-Reply-To: <1137371688.7056.47.camel@localhost.localdomain> References: <1137371688.7056.47.camel@localhost.localdomain> Message-ID: <1137434151.15396.3.camel@localhost.localdomain> On Mon, 2006-01-16 at 00:34 +0000, Stuart Ellis wrote: > You may well know about this, or I may have just made an error, but just > in case... > > I've committed an update to the IG which uses an rpm-info.xml. This > builds but the HTML has the "Legal Notice" link twice. Commenting out or > deleting the LEGALNOTICE entity in fedora-install-guide-en.xml doesn't > make a difference. > > To ensure that everything is in sync I checked out a fresh copy of > docs-common at 00:28 16-01-06, so now I'm stumped. Hi Stuart! You're not in error at all; strangely enough, I was just fixing this problem this morning since I appear to have found it at about the same time. It was a simple error with the "bookinfo.xsl" file, which transforms your "rpm-info.xml" into a or node set. (This node set becomes the generated file "fdp-info.xml".) Basically, we had calls to a legal notice entity in that file twice, so it would always appear in the generated "fdp-info.xml" file twice. Should be fixed now, but please let me know if you have any further problems with it. I'm cc'ing the list in case anyone else ran into this particular goof. -- Paul W. Frields, RHCE http://paul.frields.org/ gpg fingerprint: 3DA6 A0AC 6D58 FEC4 0233 5906 ACDB C937 BD11 3717 Fedora Documentation Project: http://fedora.redhat.com/projects/docs/ -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: signature.asc Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 189 bytes Desc: This is a digitally signed message part URL: From stickster at gmail.com Mon Jan 16 18:35:28 2006 From: stickster at gmail.com (Paul W. Frields) Date: Mon, 16 Jan 2006 13:35:28 -0500 Subject: Fedora Projects weekly report In-Reply-To: <43CBA924.3070400@redhat.com> References: <43CBA924.3070400@redhat.com> Message-ID: <1137436528.15396.12.camel@localhost.localdomain> On Mon, 2006-01-16 at 19:39 +0530, Rahul Sundaram wrote: > We have a new effort in place to provide weekly reports on the all > different Fedora sub projects. > > http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Projects/WeeklyReports > > Someone within the documentation team, kindly step up as a report > writer. Meeting mins, note worthy discussions in mailing lists, major > bugs and feature enhancements, upcoming changes, progress reports and > unbiased editorial comments and constructive criticisms can be included. > String freeze will be made every Friday of the week to enable > translators to do their work. Announcements will be made as part of > Fedora News (http://fedoranews.org) on the subsequent Monday. Let me > know if you require any clarifications on this. I've done a quick contribution for this week, but I don't have time to handle this regularly. This would be a great way to participate for someone in the FDP who isn't responsible for any specific docs. You might find this is a great way to help a lot with only a little bit of time required! You could also add the following information in addition to what I've done: * links to the IRC chat log and meeting summary that Stuart usually posts to the list after FDSCo meetings * Information about draft doc-specific progress * (The list probably goes on...) -- Paul W. Frields, RHCE http://paul.frields.org/ gpg fingerprint: 3DA6 A0AC 6D58 FEC4 0233 5906 ACDB C937 BD11 3717 Fedora Documentation Project: http://fedora.redhat.com/projects/docs/ -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: signature.asc Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 189 bytes Desc: This is a digitally signed message part URL: From Tommy.Reynolds at MegaCoder.com Mon Jan 16 19:13:56 2006 From: Tommy.Reynolds at MegaCoder.com (Tommy Reynolds) Date: Mon, 16 Jan 2006 13:13:56 -0600 Subject: Purpose of "fdpsh", the Fedora Documentation Project Shell Message-ID: <20060116131356.79b47d8a.Tommy.Reynolds@MegaCoder.com> Hi, Folks! Instead of adding process flow targets to "docs-common/Makefile.common", or making very many interrelated targets, let me offer an alternative: "fdp-functions" and "fdpsh". My preferred technique to adding interrelated process steps is to use lots of tiny shell scripts. Shell scripts read like code to me and the flow seems easier to understand. To that end, I leveraged Paul's "fdp-functions" beginnings by adding the "fdpsh" script. The "fdpsh" script transforms your shell (unless you are running csh, and if so, why are you ;-?) into an FDP-specific tool. It takes care of setting the necessary environment variables and provides handy task-specific actions that could be awkward otherwise. The ${PATH} is also updated so that "docs-common/bin" is first on the searchlist. So please consider adding shell functions for actions first, and resorting to "Makefile.common" only if you must. A target like: show_workers: ${FDPBIN}/fdpsh -c get_all_workers is a lot cleaner than exposing the individual steps in the "Makefile". End of commercial. Thank you for your patience. Please pay on your way out. -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 189 bytes Desc: not available URL: From stickster at gmail.com Mon Jan 16 20:07:58 2006 From: stickster at gmail.com (Paul W. Frields) Date: Mon, 16 Jan 2006 15:07:58 -0500 Subject: Purpose of "fdpsh", the Fedora Documentation Project Shell In-Reply-To: <20060116131356.79b47d8a.Tommy.Reynolds@MegaCoder.com> References: <20060116131356.79b47d8a.Tommy.Reynolds@MegaCoder.com> Message-ID: <1137442078.15396.14.camel@localhost.localdomain> On Mon, 2006-01-16 at 13:13 -0600, Tommy Reynolds wrote: > Instead of adding process flow targets to > "docs-common/Makefile.common", or making very many interrelated > targets, let me offer an alternative: "fdp-functions" and "fdpsh". Cool. I've updated the Makefile targets created in the last 24 hrs to use this function. -- Paul W. Frields, RHCE http://paul.frields.org/ gpg fingerprint: 3DA6 A0AC 6D58 FEC4 0233 5906 ACDB C937 BD11 3717 Fedora Documentation Project: http://fedora.redhat.com/projects/docs/ -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: signature.asc Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 189 bytes Desc: This is a digitally signed message part URL: From andrewm at inventa.ru Mon Jan 16 20:25:46 2006 From: andrewm at inventa.ru (Andrew Martynov) Date: Mon, 16 Jan 2006 23:25:46 +0300 Subject: help posting relnotes to Web In-Reply-To: <1137429681.1384.399.camel@erato.phig.org> References: <1137429681.1384.399.camel@erato.phig.org> Message-ID: <20060116202546.GA10123@mk61.inventa.ru> Hi, Karsten! I could not find links to test2 pages. Additionally, I could not test Russian translation due to error: [andrewm at home release-notes]$ LANG=C make make: *** No rule to make target `/mnt/hdnew/fedora-docs/FD/release-notes/rpm-info.xml', needed by `fdp-info-en.xml'. Stop. I would like to enable Russian translation. What should I do next? Regards, Andrew Martynov On Mon, Jan 16, 2006 at 08:41:20AM -0800, Karsten Wade wrote: > If anyone has a few minutes, can you help me by posting the latest > release-notes from CVS to the Web? > > You can follow the pages from http://fedora.redhat.com/docs/release- > notes with new links for FC5 test2. test1 can be left in the table > below and test2 highlighted. > > The Tip box has two kind of links: > > * The first is to the absolute latest in CVS HEAD. > > * The second to what is tagged FC-5-TEST2-TRANS-FREEZE. > > There may be more languages available in HEAD, please test by > uncommenting in the Makefile and running test builds, along with what > you know from fedora-docs-commits. > > I will check back in a few hours and see if help is needed. > > thx - Karsten, the deadline guy > -- > Karsten Wade, RHCE * Sr. Tech Writer * http://people.redhat.com/kwade/ > gpg fingerprint: 2680 DBFD D968 3141 0115 5F1B D992 0E06 AD0E 0C41 > Content Services Fedora Documentation Project > http://www.redhat.com/docs http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/DocsProject > -- > fedora-docs-list mailing list > fedora-docs-list at redhat.com > To unsubscribe: > https://www.redhat.com/mailman/listinfo/fedora-docs-list -- Andrew Martynov Inventa phone +7(095)7758777 fax +7(095)9270981 http://www.rhd.ru andrewm at inventa.ru From stickster at gmail.com Mon Jan 16 23:25:12 2006 From: stickster at gmail.com (Paul W. Frields) Date: Mon, 16 Jan 2006 18:25:12 -0500 Subject: New Makefile targets Message-ID: <1137453912.15396.33.camel@localhost.localdomain> There are a couple of new Makefile targets available as part of our march toward test3 and hopefully some usable RPM packages. Between Tommy and me, we've made it pretty easy for you to make additions to the rpm-info.xml file without a lot of excess work. "make clog" - Use this target any time you add information to a document or need to roll a new RPM. The target provides prompting to create a new entry at the top of the node set. (Currently you still need to change the DOCVERSION and DOCDATE entities in your document manually, but I will work on alleviating that requirement.) "make colophon" - Provides prompting to create a new entry in the node set. Same rules apply. :-) Keep in mind the approximate workflow if you have a document that you haven't yet converted to use the new rpm-info.xml file. (If you don't have an "rpm-info.xml" file, you and your translators will be unable to build the document.) -- Paul W. Frields, RHCE http://paul.frields.org/ gpg fingerprint: 3DA6 A0AC 6D58 FEC4 0233 5906 ACDB C937 BD11 3717 Fedora Documentation Project: http://fedora.redhat.com/projects/docs/ -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: signature.asc Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 189 bytes Desc: This is a digitally signed message part URL: From bbbush.yuan at gmail.com Tue Jan 17 02:32:11 2006 From: bbbush.yuan at gmail.com (Yuan Yijun) Date: Tue, 17 Jan 2006 10:32:11 +0800 Subject: docs-common/common fedora-entities-en.ent, 1.12, 1.13 fedora-entities-it.ent, 1.2, 1.3 In-Reply-To: <200601170225.k0H2PuDc023211@cvs-int.fedora.redhat.com> References: <200601170225.k0H2PuDc023211@cvs-int.fedora.redhat.com> Message-ID: <76e72f800601161832h37d687d1y@mail.gmail.com> Thought as my fault... didn't report -- bbbush :( From stickster at gmail.com Tue Jan 17 03:02:17 2006 From: stickster at gmail.com (Paul W. Frields) Date: Mon, 16 Jan 2006 22:02:17 -0500 Subject: docs-common/common fedora-entities-en.ent, 1.12, 1.13 fedora-entities-it.ent, 1.2, 1.3 In-Reply-To: <76e72f800601161832h37d687d1y@mail.gmail.com> References: <200601170225.k0H2PuDc023211@cvs-int.fedora.redhat.com> <76e72f800601161832h37d687d1y@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <1137466937.15396.37.camel@localhost.localdomain> On Tue, 2006-01-17 at 10:32 +0800, Yuan Yijun wrote: > Thought as my fault... didn't report > > -- > bbbush :( Don't sweat it... I was a little frazzled right then and forgot that people sometimes read the CVS commit messages. :-D The latest links on the Web are corrected. -- Paul W. Frields, RHCE http://paul.frields.org/ gpg fingerprint: 3DA6 A0AC 6D58 FEC4 0233 5906 ACDB C937 BD11 3717 Fedora Documentation Project: http://fedora.redhat.com/projects/docs/ -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: signature.asc Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 189 bytes Desc: This is a digitally signed message part URL: From stickster at gmail.com Tue Jan 17 03:40:39 2006 From: stickster at gmail.com (Paul W. Frields) Date: Mon, 16 Jan 2006 22:40:39 -0500 Subject: help posting relnotes to Web In-Reply-To: <1137429681.1384.399.camel@erato.phig.org> References: <1137429681.1384.399.camel@erato.phig.org> Message-ID: <1137469239.26451.10.camel@localhost.localdomain> On Mon, 2006-01-16 at 08:41 -0800, Karsten Wade wrote: > If anyone has a few minutes, can you help me by posting the latest > release-notes from CVS to the Web? > > You can follow the pages from http://fedora.redhat.com/docs/release- > notes with new links for FC5 test2. test1 can be left in the table > below and test2 highlighted. > > The Tip box has two kind of links: > > * The first is to the absolute latest in CVS HEAD. > > * The second to what is tagged FC-5-TEST2-TRANS-FREEZE. > > There may be more languages available in HEAD, please test by > uncommenting in the Makefile and running test builds, along with what > you know from fedora-docs-commits. > > I will check back in a few hours and see if help is needed. Karsten, Sorry I missed this email in the morning -- I was working from another system and didn't check email at the time. I wasn't sure what the deal was with dealing with non-HEAD builds, so I couldn't handle that part. What I *did* do: 1. Using the "${FDPBIN}/db2rpm-info" script, I created a skeleton "rpm-info.xml" file. This file is now *REQUIRED* to do builds. I think Tommy and/or I noted this in on-list posts, but it probably could stand more emphasis. Assuming your document parent file is called "mydoc-en.xml", just run: $ cd ~/fedora/docs/mydoc/ $ ../docs-common/bin/db2rpm-info mydoc-en.xml > rpm-info.xml (Only do this when you first create rpm-info.xml, obviously.) 2. I copied the translated titles for the relnotes into the "rpm-info.xml" file. (The desc element for each lang still needs translation; the lang="en" version is filled in for reference by translators.) 3. I did a normal build and publish routine for HEAD, installing into the docs/relnotes/fc5/test2-latest-${LANG} directories. 4. I added docs/relnotes/fc5/test2-${LANG} directories into which the frozen tag versions can be installed, but again, I wasn't confident about doing this right, so I figured the HEAD was more important to get out there. I should note that I started work on DocGuide v2 this weekend, which will include this information of course, but I encourage everyone to get active and ask questions on the fedora-docs-list if they are having problems building anything or understanding what's changing. I'm copying the f-trans-l in case I miss any of our wonderful and helpful translators who are doing such an AMAZING job getting this content ready. Seriously, you guys rock. -- Paul W. Frields, RHCE http://paul.frields.org/ gpg fingerprint: 3DA6 A0AC 6D58 FEC4 0233 5906 ACDB C937 BD11 3717 Fedora Documentation Project: http://fedora.redhat.com/projects/docs/ -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: signature.asc Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 189 bytes Desc: This is a digitally signed message part URL: From stickster at gmail.com Tue Jan 17 03:43:20 2006 From: stickster at gmail.com (Paul W. Frields) Date: Mon, 16 Jan 2006 22:43:20 -0500 Subject: help posting relnotes to Web In-Reply-To: <20060116202546.GA10123@mk61.inventa.ru> References: <1137429681.1384.399.camel@erato.phig.org> <20060116202546.GA10123@mk61.inventa.ru> Message-ID: <1137469400.26451.14.camel@localhost.localdomain> On Mon, 2006-01-16 at 23:25 +0300, Andrew Martynov wrote: > Hi, Karsten! > > I could not find links to test2 pages. > Additionally, I could not test Russian translation due to error: > > [andrewm at home release-notes]$ LANG=C make > make: *** No rule to make target `/mnt/hdnew/fedora-docs/FD/release-notes/rpm-info.xml', needed by `fdp-info-en.xml'. Stop. > > I would like to enable Russian translation. What should I do next? Andrew, this should be fixed now. I created the rpm-info.xml this evening while proxying for Karsten. :-) If you get a chance, you can translate the element in your , in that file, for future use in packaging. Thank you and sorry for your trouble today! -- Paul W. Frields, RHCE http://paul.frields.org/ gpg fingerprint: 3DA6 A0AC 6D58 FEC4 0233 5906 ACDB C937 BD11 3717 Fedora Documentation Project: http://fedora.redhat.com/projects/docs/ -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: signature.asc Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 189 bytes Desc: This is a digitally signed message part URL: From stickster at gmail.com Tue Jan 17 03:51:44 2006 From: stickster at gmail.com (Paul W. Frields) Date: Mon, 16 Jan 2006 22:51:44 -0500 Subject: Minor action item Message-ID: <1137469904.26451.22.camel@localhost.localdomain> Here's another (relative) quickie that any of our helpful members, silent or not, could handle: http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/DocsProject/SteeringCommittee/MeetingMinutes This page on the wiki is used to record our IRC logs and meeting summaries for the FDSCo. Unfortunately, it's a few months out of date. There were a couple missed meetings in there, but it would be great if someone could scour the archives and link the logs and minutes there. Just use the existing list as your template and put in the new links the same way. You can certainly find the minutes through the archive sites: http://www.redhat.com/archives/fedora-docs-list (for minute summaries) http://www.redhat.com/archives/fedora-docs-steering (for IRC logs) There may be an occasional leakage of one or the other of these messages to either list, but usually that's how they're done. If anyone could look into this, it would be great. Just for information, I did the last "Mass Info Dump" and it took me only about 30 minutes or so to find everything and do the copy/pasting. And that was probably with various rugrats interrupting at the time. :-) In the future we should endeavor to link these right after publication of course, but hey, no aspersions cast, I forgot just like everyone else. :-D -- Paul W. Frields, RHCE http://paul.frields.org/ gpg fingerprint: 3DA6 A0AC 6D58 FEC4 0233 5906 ACDB C937 BD11 3717 Fedora Documentation Project: http://fedora.redhat.com/projects/docs/ -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: signature.asc Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 189 bytes Desc: This is a digitally signed message part URL: From kwade at redhat.com Tue Jan 17 22:35:28 2006 From: kwade at redhat.com (Karsten Wade) Date: Tue, 17 Jan 2006 14:35:28 -0800 Subject: CVS tag naming conventions In-Reply-To: <20060114124550.bf5167fa.Tommy.Reynolds@MegaCoder.com> References: <20060114065826.98e1f048.Tommy.Reynolds@MegaCoder.com> <1137262408.1384.332.camel@erato.phig.org> <20060114124550.bf5167fa.Tommy.Reynolds@MegaCoder.com> Message-ID: <1137537328.24274.64.camel@erato.phig.org> On Sat, 2006-01-14 at 12:45 -0600, Tommy Reynolds wrote: > > I think having the module exactly like the module name (lower case), and > > then the data in ALL CAPS might make it easier to visually parse the > > information. > > If you don't mind BEING SHOUTED AT ;-) Well, we have two -1s and my lukewarm, "I think someone might care." No requirement to use ALL CAPS in the tag convention, but we don't need to regulate it. Use what you see fit as long as: 1. You start with the module name, e.g. example-tutorial-some-tag 2. Be explicit, use words if you need them 3. Always tag your module _and_ docs-common: cvs tag -F example-tutorial-frozen-for-trans-20060120 example-tutorial/ docs-common/ 4. Don't tag other modules that don't need tagging Enough rules? Ready for the Wiki? - Karsten -- Karsten Wade, RHCE * Sr. Tech Writer * http://people.redhat.com/kwade/ gpg fingerprint: 2680 DBFD D968 3141 0115 5F1B D992 0E06 AD0E 0C41 Content Services Fedora Documentation Project http://www.redhat.com/docs http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/DocsProject -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: signature.asc Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 189 bytes Desc: This is a digitally signed message part URL: From stuart at elsn.org Tue Jan 17 22:52:28 2006 From: stuart at elsn.org (Stuart Ellis) Date: Tue, 17 Jan 2006 22:52:28 +0000 Subject: Minutes of FDSCo Meeting 17 Jan 2006 Message-ID: <1137538348.2903.24.camel@localhost.localdomain> Attending Members: ------------------ Karsten Wade (quaid) Tommy Reynolds (megacoder) Gavin Henry (G2) Paul Frields (stickster) Stuart Ellis (elliss) Also Participating: ------------------- Patrick Barnes (nman64) Bob Jensen (BobJensen) Rahul Sundaram (mether) Schedule of Tasks: ------------------ http://www.fedoraproject.org/wiki/DocsProject/FedoraDocsSchedule Highlights: ----------- * Karsten: Bob Jensen to take over as Release Notes co-ordinator. * Paul: The document build process has now transitioned to the new RPM-ready file structure. Existing documents in CVS will NOT build until they have been migrated to use the new structure. Further details are here: http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/DocsProject/PackagePrep Note that the example-tutorial and install-guide have already been migrated. Full IRC Log: ------------- https://www.redhat.com/archives/fedora-dsco-list/2006-January/msg00005.html -- Stuart Ellis stuart at elsn.org Fedora Documentation Project: http://fedora.redhat.com/projects/docs/ GPG key ID: 7098ABEA GPG key fingerprint: 68B0 E291 FB19 C845 E60E 9569 292E E365 7098 ABEA -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: signature.asc Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 189 bytes Desc: This is a digitally signed message part URL: From Tommy.Reynolds at MegaCoder.com Tue Jan 17 22:54:17 2006 From: Tommy.Reynolds at MegaCoder.com (Tommy Reynolds) Date: Tue, 17 Jan 2006 16:54:17 -0600 Subject: CVS tag naming conventions In-Reply-To: <1137537328.24274.64.camel@erato.phig.org> References: <20060114065826.98e1f048.Tommy.Reynolds@MegaCoder.com> <1137262408.1384.332.camel@erato.phig.org> <20060114124550.bf5167fa.Tommy.Reynolds@MegaCoder.com> <1137537328.24274.64.camel@erato.phig.org> Message-ID: <20060117165417.8a108e2a.Tommy.Reynolds@MegaCoder.com> Uttered Karsten Wade , spake thus: > 1. You start with the module name, e.g. example-tutorial-some-tag > 2. Be explicit, use words if you need them > 3. Always tag your module _and_ docs-common: > cvs tag -F example-tutorial-frozen-for-trans-20060120 example-tutorial/ docs-common/ > 4. Don't tag other modules that don't need tagging > Enough rules? Ready for the Wiki? I'm good with that. Cheers -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 189 bytes Desc: not available URL: From galbotrix007 at gmail.com Wed Jan 18 11:53:58 2006 From: galbotrix007 at gmail.com (Sameer Niphadkar) Date: Wed, 18 Jan 2006 17:23:58 +0530 Subject: CVS tag naming conventions In-Reply-To: <20060117165417.8a108e2a.Tommy.Reynolds@MegaCoder.com> References: <20060114065826.98e1f048.Tommy.Reynolds@MegaCoder.com> <1137262408.1384.332.camel@erato.phig.org> <20060114124550.bf5167fa.Tommy.Reynolds@MegaCoder.com> <1137537328.24274.64.camel@erato.phig.org> <20060117165417.8a108e2a.Tommy.Reynolds@MegaCoder.com> Message-ID: <2f9fcf9c0601180353o6493790ev103f653f3ca27257@mail.gmail.com> Hi guys, This is my 1st mail to the list. So here comes my customary introduction. 1. Self-Introduction: Sameer Niphadkar (galbotrix) Body * Full legal name : same as above * City : Mumbai, Country : India Timezone : IST * Profession or Student status : Final yr undergrad student of Computer science * Company or School : KJSCE University of Mumbai (http://www.somaiya.edu/) * Your goals in the Fedora Project To parcticipate in the free open source community. My own small contribution to this world. * What do you want to write about? Command line tools for Fedora - A GUI user guide * What other documentation do you want to see published? Tracing mechanisms in Linux . * Do you want to edit for grammar/writing and/or technical accuracy? Yes, if its possible for me. * Anything else special? Adventure sports and travel * Historical qualifications Participated in the National students forum of IEEE and my paper won the 1st prize (regional round) * What other projects or writing have you worked on in the past? Articles on http://www.osnews.com and http://slashdot.org * What level and type of computer skills do you have? May not be much compared to the people around here. But I'd say good in java, C and C++. Alongside PHP scripting and Dynamic Tracing on Solaris (D programming) * What other skills do you have that might be applicable? User interface design, other so-called soft skills (people skills), programming, etc. I think I've already answered that * What makes you an excellent match for the project? User friendly technical writing. * GPG fingerprint : DD7F 9C1A 482C 9337 C7BF CE43 3FE6 F2EC 11E5 A6FD Thanks , Work and feedbacks are welcome ! rgds Sameer From sundaram at redhat.com Wed Jan 18 12:01:23 2006 From: sundaram at redhat.com (Rahul Sundaram) Date: Wed, 18 Jan 2006 17:31:23 +0530 Subject: Welcome In-Reply-To: <2f9fcf9c0601180353o6493790ev103f653f3ca27257@mail.gmail.com> References: <20060114065826.98e1f048.Tommy.Reynolds@MegaCoder.com> <1137262408.1384.332.camel@erato.phig.org> <20060114124550.bf5167fa.Tommy.Reynolds@MegaCoder.com> <1137537328.24274.64.camel@erato.phig.org> <20060117165417.8a108e2a.Tommy.Reynolds@MegaCoder.com> <2f9fcf9c0601180353o6493790ev103f653f3ca27257@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <43CE2E13.1040508@redhat.com> [Please start a new thread for future individual mails] Sameer Niphadkar wrote: >Hi guys, >This is my 1st mail to the list. So here comes my customary introduction. > > > 1. Self-Introduction: Sameer Niphadkar (galbotrix) > > Welcome to the Fedora Documentation Project. > * What do you want to write about? > Command line tools for Fedora - A GUI user guide > > Not sure how they connect. Do you mean a guide that explain both GUI and command line tools?. If you have a table of contents and summary that would be very useful to get started. > * What other documentation do you want to see published? > Tracing mechanisms in Linux . > > Does any of the Fedora Core or Extras packages support this? > * Do you want to edit for grammar/writing and/or technical accuracy? > Yes, if its possible for me. > > Sure. If you are interested we will pass on new revisions of documents to you for verification. > * Anything else special? > Adventure sports and travel > > * Historical qualifications > Participated in the National students forum of IEEE and my paper >won the 1st prize (regional round) > > Is the paper available online?. Just curious. > * What other projects or writing have you worked on in the past? > Articles on http://www.osnews.com and http://slashdot.org > > Can you provide links to the specific articles? -- Rahul Fedora Bug Triaging - http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/BugZappers From gauravp at hclcomnet.co.in Wed Jan 18 12:00:07 2006 From: gauravp at hclcomnet.co.in (Gaurav) Date: Wed, 18 Jan 2006 17:30:07 +0530 Subject: Welcome In-Reply-To: <43CE2E13.1040508@redhat.com> References: <20060114065826.98e1f048.Tommy.Reynolds@MegaCoder.com> <11372624 08.1384.332.camel@erato.phig.org> <20060114124550.bf5167fa.Tommy.Reynolds@M egaCoder.com> <1137537328.24274.64.camel@erato.phig.org> <20060117165417.8a 108e2a.Tommy.Reynolds@MegaCoder.com> <2f9fcf9c0601180353o6493790ev103f653f3c a27257@mail.gmail.com> <43CE2E13.1040508@redhat.com> Message-ID: <1137585607.2194.32.camel@sudip-vp-a2.hclcomnet.local> why o why this self introduction is needed ...........................as if one is applying for a job or something ..........i never seen on OSS project this kind of rigid introduction schemes .....your past qualifications or some white collar job is no guarantee against quality or the talent ...i have seen enough 16 years old or hackers with no higher education code writing the best code .. .the content or the code submitted should be only concern ....moreover there is no such processes in tldp On Wed, 2006-01-18 at 17:31 +0530, Rahul Sundaram wrote: > [Please start a new thread for future individual mails] > > Sameer Niphadkar wrote: > > >Hi guys, > >This is my 1st mail to the list. So here comes my customary introduction. > > > > > > 1. Self-Introduction: Sameer Niphadkar (galbotrix) > > > > > Welcome to the Fedora Documentation Project. > > > * What do you want to write about? > > Command line tools for Fedora - A GUI user guide > > > > > Not sure how they connect. Do you mean a guide that explain both GUI and > command line tools?. If you have a table of contents and summary that > would be very useful to get started. > > > * What other documentation do you want to see published? > > Tracing mechanisms in Linux . > > > > > Does any of the Fedora Core or Extras packages support this? > > > * Do you want to edit for grammar/writing and/or technical accuracy? > > Yes, if its possible for me. > > > > > Sure. If you are interested we will pass on new revisions of documents > to you for verification. > > > * Anything else special? > > Adventure sports and travel > > > > * Historical qualifications > > Participated in the National students forum of IEEE and my paper > >won the 1st prize (regional round) > > > > > Is the paper available online?. Just curious. > > > * What other projects or writing have you worked on in the past? > > Articles on http://www.osnews.com and http://slashdot.org > > > > > Can you provide links to the specific articles? > > -- > Rahul > > Fedora Bug Triaging - http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/BugZappers > DISCLAIMER: -------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- This e-mail contains confidential and/or privileged information. If you are not the intended recipient (or have received this e-mail in error)please notify the sender immediately and destroy this e-mail. Any unauthorized copying, disclosure, use or distribution of the material in this e-mail is strictly forbidden. --------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From sundaram at redhat.com Wed Jan 18 12:29:51 2006 From: sundaram at redhat.com (Rahul Sundaram) Date: Wed, 18 Jan 2006 17:59:51 +0530 Subject: Welcome In-Reply-To: <1137585607.2194.32.camel@sudip-vp-a2.hclcomnet.local> References: <20060114065826.98e1f048.Tommy.Reynolds@MegaCoder.com> <11372624 08.1384.332.camel@erato.phig.org> <20060114124550.bf5167fa.Tommy.Reynolds@M egaCoder.com> <1137537328.24274.64.camel@erato.phig.org> <20060117165417.8a 108e2a.Tommy.Reynolds@MegaCoder.com> <2f9fcf9c0601180353o6493790ev103f653f3c a27257@mail.gmail.com> <43CE2E13.1040508@redhat.com> <1137585607.2194.32.camel@sudip-vp-a2.hclcomnet.local> Message-ID: <43CE34BF.90905@redhat.com> Gaurav wrote: > why o why this self introduction is needed > ...........................as if one is applying for a job or something It is applying for a job. A volunteer job of producing Fedora documentation. > ..........i never seen on OSS project this kind of rigid introduction > schemes It is mean to understand each other while working as a team. The information required is not rigid by any means in my opinion. > .....your past qualifications or some white collar job is no > guarantee against quality or the talent ...i have seen enough 16 years > old or hackers with no higher education code writing the best code .. > .the content or the code submitted should be only concern We dont judge anyone by their introduction alone. This is again to provide some basic information about the person to gain a understanding of each other. If the interested writers and editors willing to contribute documentation and editorial work have not complained it isnt a concern for others. > ....moreover there is no such processes in tldp As someone who has been involved in the LDP project for a long time reviewing and producing documentation including but not limited to the project FAQ (http://tldp.org/FAQ/LDP-FAQ/), I am well aware that LDP is very concerned about the quality of documentation is its website but the processes by themselves are not enough to guarantee this as witness by the number of outdated docs and missing authors in the HOWTO's and guides within the project. The licenses can disallow modifications and various documentation is about proprietary products. I have raised such concerns before on the project but the amount of volunteers involved is very low now and and due to this unfortunately LDP is not an ideal example of a good documentation project. We can do potentially much better. -- Rahul Fedora Bug Triaging - http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/BugZappers From stickster at gmail.com Wed Jan 18 13:54:11 2006 From: stickster at gmail.com (Paul W. Frields) Date: Wed, 18 Jan 2006 08:54:11 -0500 Subject: CVS tag naming conventions In-Reply-To: <2f9fcf9c0601180353o6493790ev103f653f3ca27257@mail.gmail.com> References: <20060114065826.98e1f048.Tommy.Reynolds@MegaCoder.com> <1137262408.1384.332.camel@erato.phig.org> <20060114124550.bf5167fa.Tommy.Reynolds@MegaCoder.com> <1137537328.24274.64.camel@erato.phig.org> <20060117165417.8a108e2a.Tommy.Reynolds@MegaCoder.com> <2f9fcf9c0601180353o6493790ev103f653f3ca27257@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <1137592451.3144.17.camel@localhost.localdomain> On Wed, 2006-01-18 at 17:23 +0530, Sameer Niphadkar wrote: > Hi guys, > This is my 1st mail to the list. So here comes my customary introduction. Greetings Sameer, thanks for introducing yourself! > * What do you want to write about? > Command line tools for Fedora - A GUI user guide You might be interested in looking at the planned docs in http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Docs/Drafts - these include a Getting Started Guide, a Desktop Users Guide, a System Administration Guide, and so on. I think what you want to write about will fit nicely into one or more of these existing documents. You can help out wherever you feel the most comfortable and ambitious. :-) > * What other documentation do you want to see published? > Tracing mechanisms in Linux . This sounds interesting. Is it possible the Developers Guide is a good place for this? More information would be helpful, I think. > * Anything else special? > Adventure sports and travel Hmm, how can we work this in to Fedora? I've got it -- a "Cool Places to Take Your Fedora Laptop" tutorial! Well, OK, maybe after we finish the core documentation... :-) > * What other projects or writing have you worked on in the past? > Articles on http://www.osnews.com and http://slashdot.org Maybe you can join forces with Rahul in correcting some of the misinformation we see floating around those sites every once in a while in their Fedora previews. :-D > Thanks , Work and feedbacks are welcome ! You should simply hop in where you feel comfortable. You will find that the FDP, like most open source projects, doesn't really hand out assignment per se, but instead we rely on you to gauge your skills and participate where you feel you have time and energy available. Do as much or as little as you like; if you have questions you can usually find people on freenode.net IRC #fedora-docs, or you are ALWAYS free to mail the list with questions. Check out the resources above and see what you'd like to help with. Contact the authors listed, let them know you'd like to help. Let us know by posting here if someone needs to add you to an editing access list somewhere. Thanks for your interest and we look forward to hearing from you! -- Paul W. Frields, RHCE http://paul.frields.org/ gpg fingerprint: 3DA6 A0AC 6D58 FEC4 0233 5906 ACDB C937 BD11 3717 Fedora Documentation Project: http://fedora.redhat.com/projects/docs/ -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: signature.asc Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 189 bytes Desc: This is a digitally signed message part URL: From stickster at gmail.com Wed Jan 18 13:59:45 2006 From: stickster at gmail.com (Paul W. Frields) Date: Wed, 18 Jan 2006 08:59:45 -0500 Subject: install-guide rpm-info.xml,1.2,1.3 In-Reply-To: <200601172304.k0HN4hoE006770@cvs-int.fedora.redhat.com> References: <200601172304.k0HN4hoE006770@cvs-int.fedora.redhat.com> Message-ID: <1137592785.3144.21.camel@localhost.localdomain> re: Commit below -- On Tue, 2006-01-17 at 18:04 -0500, Tommy Reynolds wrote: > Log Message: > Dates must be in ctime(3) format, not ISO format. > > TODO: We need an XSL magic to translate the dates if they have dashes. > Index: rpm-info.xml > =================================================================== > RCS file: /cvs/docs/install-guide/rpm-info.xml,v > retrieving revision 1.2 > retrieving revision 1.3 > diff -u -r1.2 -r1.3 > --- rpm-info.xml 17 Jan 2006 22:49:29 -0000 1.2 > +++ rpm-info.xml 17 Jan 2006 23:04:15 -0000 1.3 > @@ -28,7 +28,7 @@ > > > > - > + > >
Added initial empty RPM revision to test packaging.
> The "make clog" target takes care of this automatically. I would recommend folks using that target whenever possible since it minimizes hassle. If you edit manually, well, just respect the normal rules for such things. If you break the revision's @date attribute, the rpmbuild process will tell you what you did wrong (i.e. %changelog date is not in proper format). Since no one will be creating rpm-info.xml files that have any RPM revisions yet, there shouldn't be any cruft to worry about. -- Paul W. Frields, RHCE http://paul.frields.org/ gpg fingerprint: 3DA6 A0AC 6D58 FEC4 0233 5906 ACDB C937 BD11 3717 Fedora Documentation Project: http://fedora.redhat.com/projects/docs/ -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: signature.asc Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 189 bytes Desc: This is a digitally signed message part URL: From Tommy.Reynolds at MegaCoder.com Wed Jan 18 17:18:32 2006 From: Tommy.Reynolds at MegaCoder.com (Tommy Reynolds) Date: Wed, 18 Jan 2006 11:18:32 -0600 Subject: install-guide rpm-info.xml,1.2,1.3 In-Reply-To: <1137592785.3144.21.camel@localhost.localdomain> References: <200601172304.k0HN4hoE006770@cvs-int.fedora.redhat.com> <1137592785.3144.21.camel@localhost.localdomain> Message-ID: <20060118111832.c57a0415.Tommy.Reynolds@MegaCoder.com> Uttered "Paul W. Frields" , spake thus: > re: Commit below -- > > On Tue, 2006-01-17 at 18:04 -0500, Tommy Reynolds wrote: > > Log Message: > > Dates must be in ctime(3) format, not ISO format. > > TODO: We need an XSL magic to translate the dates if they have dashes. I added the "fdpsh" command "iso2date YYYY-MM-DD" or "iso2date today" to make this easier. > The "make clog" target takes care of this automatically. I would > recommend folks using that target whenever possible since it minimizes > hassle. If you edit manually, well, just respect the normal rules for > such things. If you break the revision's @date attribute, the rpmbuild > process will tell you what you did wrong (i.e. %changelog date is not in > proper format). All dates in the "rpm-info.xml" file should be in the ctime(3) format, instead of some as ISO and others not. We just don't really care about the revision date on the doc. Yet. > Since no one will be creating rpm-info.xml files that have any RPM > revisions yet, there shouldn't be any cruft to worry about. Well, I'm testing the RPM build structure on a second document ;-) I'm not really sure how this "rpm-info.xml" was produced, though. As you say, no need to worry. In fact, I only worry about those things which I control: therefore, I never worry about anything. Cheers -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 189 bytes Desc: not available URL: From Tommy.Reynolds at MegaCoder.com Wed Jan 18 17:34:06 2006 From: Tommy.Reynolds at MegaCoder.com (Tommy Reynolds) Date: Wed, 18 Jan 2006 11:34:06 -0600 Subject: Welcome In-Reply-To: <1137585607.2194.32.camel@sudip-vp-a2.hclcomnet.local> References: <20060114065826.98e1f048.Tommy.Reynolds@MegaCoder.com> <11372624 08.1384.332.camel@erato.phig.org> <20060114124550.bf5167fa.Tommy.Reynolds@M egaCoder.com> <1137537328.24274.64.camel@erato.phig.org> <20060117165417.8a 108e2a.Tommy.Reynolds@MegaCoder.com> <2f9fcf9c0601180353o6493790ev103f653f3c a27257@mail.gmail.com> <43CE2E13.1040508@redhat.com> <1137585607.2194.32.camel@sudip-vp-a2.hclcomnet.local> Message-ID: <20060118113406.3910427d.Tommy.Reynolds@MegaCoder.com> Uttered Gaurav , spake thus: > why o why this self introduction is needed ...........................as > if one is applying for a job or something ..........i never seen on OSS > project this kind of rigid introduction schemes .....your past > qualifications or some white collar job is no guarantee against quality > or the talent ...i have seen enough 16 years old or hackers with no > higher education code writing the best code .. .the content or the code > submitted should be only concern ....moreover there is no such processes > in tldp Gaurev, Speaking for myself and the FDPSC, let me correct your mis-impression of the self introduction and why we require it. We use the self introduction just to get to know you a little bit. Here at FDP, we take the "community" part of "open source community" seriously. Besides, there is nothing to keep you from inflating your intro. That wouldn't be fair to yourself or to the other participants, but we don't check such things: such behavior is its own punishment ;-) We believe a quick "this-is-me" is a very low hurdle to gain membership. Tell us who you are and you are in. When I did the RHCE certification for Red Hat, I had that 16-year old you mentioned and, yes, he did out-score many other more senior folk on the test. Myself, I don't have a degree either. Ability is what counts here, not puffery. Show us what you can do and we will help you every step of the way. So, tell us a bit about yourself, give yourself a way to identify yourself to us, and we will give you read/write access to the whole CVS kingdom (just about). Seems pretty friendly, to me. Cheers -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 189 bytes Desc: not available URL: From kwade at redhat.com Wed Jan 18 19:21:50 2006 From: kwade at redhat.com (Karsten Wade) Date: Wed, 18 Jan 2006 11:21:50 -0800 Subject: Self Introductions (was Re: Welcome) In-Reply-To: <1137585607.2194.32.camel@sudip-vp-a2.hclcomnet.local> References: <20060114065826.98e1f048.Tommy.Reynolds@MegaCoder.com> <11372624 08.1384.332.camel@erato.phig.org> <20060114124550.bf5167fa.Tommy.Reynolds@M egaCoder.com> <1137537328.24274.64.camel@erato.phig.org> <20060117165417.8a 108e2a.Tommy.Reynolds@MegaCoder.com> <2f9fcf9c0601180353o6493790ev103f653f3c a27257@mail.gmail.com> <43CE2E13.1040508@redhat.com> <1137585607.2194.32.camel@sudip-vp-a2.hclcomnet.local> Message-ID: <1137612110.24274.124.camel@erato.phig.org> On Wed, 2006-01-18 at 17:30 +0530, Gaurav wrote: > why o why this self introduction is > needed ...........................as if one is applying for a job or > something ..........i never seen on OSS project this kind of rigid > introduction schemes ..... We inherited the practice from Fedora developers. People who want to contribute actively on fedora-devel-list were (are?) asked to do a self- intro. This was done at the start of the Fedora Project because it was a _very_active_ community of Red Hat Linux enthusiasts working together for the first time with many new faces. It allowed people to sort out who was who. Otherwise, I agree with what Rahul and Tommy have written. It is in fact a very small hurdle that helps us know who people are. > your past qualifications or some white collar job is no guarantee > against quality or the talent ...i have seen enough 16 years old or > hackers with no higher education code writing the best code .. .the > content or the code submitted should be only concern There is no judgment of qualifications, specific or implied. If you see *any* language in the self-intro page[1] that seems to judge you by your qualifications, please let us know or make fixes yourself on the Wiki. As a person whose qualifications are often _less_ than the newbies around me, I am by no means intending the project to judge incoming contributors negatively by their qualifications. Knowing what you have done and how you assess yourself is important in knowing how to help you be successful in the project. It also serves to make _everyone_ accountable, be they from Red Hat or not. We all know everyone else is. That's why we post a page with links[2] to all of the self-intros that have been done on this list, so we are easy to find. Thanks for your question and concerns. - Karsten [1] http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/DocsProject/SelfIntroduction [2] http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/DocsProject/Contributors -- Karsten Wade, RHCE * Sr. Tech Writer * http://people.redhat.com/kwade/ gpg fingerprint: 2680 DBFD D968 3141 0115 5F1B D992 0E06 AD0E 0C41 Content Services Fedora Documentation Project http://www.redhat.com/docs http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/DocsProject -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: signature.asc Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 189 bytes Desc: This is a digitally signed message part URL: From dwmw2 at infradead.org Wed Jan 18 20:11:42 2006 From: dwmw2 at infradead.org (David Woodhouse) Date: Thu, 19 Jan 2006 07:11:42 +1100 Subject: Welcome In-Reply-To: <43CE34BF.90905@redhat.com> References: <20060114065826.98e1f048.Tommy.Reynolds@MegaCoder.com> <11372624 08.1384.332.camel@erato.phig.org> <20060114124550.bf5167fa.Tommy.Reynolds@M egaCoder.com> <1137537328.24274.64.camel@erato.phig.org> <20060117165417.8a 108e2a.Tommy.Reynolds@MegaCoder.com> <2f9fcf9c0601180353o6493790ev103f653f3c a27257@mail.gmail.com> <43CE2E13.1040508@redhat.com> <1137585607.2194.32.camel@sudip-vp-a2.hclcomnet.local> <43CE34BF.90905@redhat.com> Message-ID: <1137615103.30084.43.camel@localhost.localdomain> On Wed, 2006-01-18 at 17:59 +0530, Rahul Sundaram wrote: > We dont judge anyone by their introduction alone. I don't judge anyone by their introduction at all. But I _do_ judge people by their email habits. Gaurav top-posted, he used HTML for no apparent reason, he had an idiotic and unenforceable (and badly formatted) disclaimer on his email, and he seemed not to bother even to punctuate his own output enough to make it easily readable. That kind of thing I _do_ pay attention to -- not that my opinion necessarily matters. Gaurav, since I suspect you're new to using email I don't mean to be too harsh -- I'd suggest reading any of the common references on how to use email politely, known as 'netiquette'. One example of such is available at http://david.woodhou.se/email.html That one doesn't mention disclaimers because the pointlessness of those is just common sense -- you're posting to a public list and you really can't put that kind of restriction on the recipients unilaterally. You achieve nothing except to advertise the stupidity of your management. Personally, I just kick people off my lists immediately for such things. But then, HTML mail wouldn't have made it to one of my lists in the first place. This list is a kinder (and hence noisier) place. -- dwmw2 From kwade at redhat.com Wed Jan 18 20:39:16 2006 From: kwade at redhat.com (Karsten Wade) Date: Wed, 18 Jan 2006 12:39:16 -0800 Subject: CVS tag naming conventions In-Reply-To: <20060114065826.98e1f048.Tommy.Reynolds@MegaCoder.com> References: <20060114065826.98e1f048.Tommy.Reynolds@MegaCoder.com> Message-ID: <1137616756.24274.129.camel@erato.phig.org> On Sat, 2006-01-14 at 06:58 -0600, Tommy Reynolds wrote: > Hello, Folks! > > I just realized that when CVS tagging a document revision, it is not > sufficient to tag only the document directory: one must also tag the > building infrastructure in "docs-common/". Tags are fast, cheap and > easy, so we can use as many as we like. So are Wiki pages: http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/DocsProject/CvsTagging We can now fix it there. Such content needs a snapshot into the DocGuide, eventually. - Karsten -- Karsten Wade, RHCE * Sr. Tech Writer * http://people.redhat.com/kwade/ gpg fingerprint: 2680 DBFD D968 3141 0115 5F1B D992 0E06 AD0E 0C41 Content Services Fedora Documentation Project http://www.redhat.com/docs http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/DocsProject -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: signature.asc Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 189 bytes Desc: This is a digitally signed message part URL: From mospina at redhat.com Thu Jan 19 01:05:10 2006 From: mospina at redhat.com (Manuel Ospina) Date: Thu, 19 Jan 2006 11:05:10 +1000 Subject: Translation guide Message-ID: <1137632710.4045.45.camel@dhcp-118.brisbane.redhat.com> Dear Chester and Aman, I have added a "Translation Quick Start Guide" to the repository (I should have reported to the fedora-docs-list before adding it... sorry about it). Anyway, though the guide is still a draft, it contains the essential information about how to translate software and documentation for the Fedora project. I believe it would be useful if we can include it in the L10N wiki page < http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/L10N/ > . Aman, Chester, as you are the maintainers of the Fedora Localization Project I would need your assistance to export the XML file to the wiki (I believe making the html file is not enough). Thanks, Manuel From Tommy.Reynolds at MegaCoder.com Thu Jan 19 01:35:37 2006 From: Tommy.Reynolds at MegaCoder.com (Tommy Reynolds) Date: Wed, 18 Jan 2006 19:35:37 -0600 Subject: Translation guide In-Reply-To: <1137632710.4045.45.camel@dhcp-118.brisbane.redhat.com> References: <1137632710.4045.45.camel@dhcp-118.brisbane.redhat.com> Message-ID: <20060118193537.20850e6b.Tommy.Reynolds@MegaCoder.com> Uttered Manuel Ospina , spake thus: > I have added a "Translation Quick Start Guide" to the repository (I > should have reported to the fedora-docs-list before adding it... sorry > about it. Please update the "rpm-info.xml" information. I've provided in initial file with dummy entries for you. Thanks -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 189 bytes Desc: not available URL: From mospina at redhat.com Thu Jan 19 03:13:31 2006 From: mospina at redhat.com (Manuel Ospina) Date: Thu, 19 Jan 2006 13:13:31 +1000 Subject: Translation guide In-Reply-To: <20060118193537.20850e6b.Tommy.Reynolds@MegaCoder.com> References: <1137632710.4045.45.camel@dhcp-118.brisbane.redhat.com> <20060118193537.20850e6b.Tommy.Reynolds@MegaCoder.com> Message-ID: <1137640411.4045.46.camel@dhcp-118.brisbane.redhat.com> El mi?, 18-01-2006 a las 19:35 -0600, Tommy Reynolds escribi?: > Uttered Manuel Ospina , spake thus: > > > I have added a "Translation Quick Start Guide" to the repository (I > > should have reported to the fedora-docs-list before adding it... sorry > > about it. > > Please update the "rpm-info.xml" information. I've provided in > initial file with dummy entries for you. Thanks, It's done. > Thanks > -- > fedora-docs-list mailing list > fedora-docs-list at redhat.com > To unsubscribe: > https://www.redhat.com/mailman/listinfo/fedora-docs-list From GauravP at hcl.in Thu Jan 19 11:27:00 2006 From: GauravP at hcl.in (Gaurav Prasad) Date: Thu, 19 Jan 2006 16:57:00 +0530 Subject: Welcome In-Reply-To: <1137615103.30084.43.camel@localhost.localdomain> References: <20060114065826.98e1f048.Tommy.Reynolds@MegaCoder.com> <11372624 08.1384.332.camel@erato.phig.org> <20060114124550.bf5167fa.Tommy.Reynolds@M egaCoder.com> <1137537328.24274.64.camel@erato.phig.org> <20060117165417.8a 108e2a.Tommy.Reynolds@MegaCoder.com> <2f9fcf9c0601180353o6493790ev103f653f3c a27257@mail.gmail.com> <43CE2E13.1040508@redhat.com> <1137585607.2194.32.camel@sudip-vp-a2.hclcomnet.local> <43CE34BF.90905@redhat.com> <1137615103.30084.43.camel@localhost.localdomain> Message-ID: <1137669105.5145.29.camel@sudip-vp-a2.hclcomnet.local> On Thu, 2006-01-19 at 07:11 +1100, David Woodhouse wrote: > On Wed, 2006-01-18 at 17:59 +0530, Rahul Sundaram wrote: > > We dont judge anyone by their introduction alone. > > I don't judge anyone by their introduction at all. But I _do_ judge > people by their email habits. Gaurav top-posted, he used HTML for no > apparent reason, he had an idiotic and unenforceable (and badly > formatted) disclaimer on his email, and he seemed not to bother even to > punctuate his own output enough to make it easily readable. That kind of > thing I _do_ pay attention to -- not that my opinion necessarily > matters. > sorry dude .......Oh My god look what I have done !!!! I have committed a crime against humanity !!Btw ... Do you know there were more than 400 mails in fedora mailing list in 2005 discussing merits / demerits of top posting ... just for your attention ;-) > Gaurav, since I suspect you're new to using email I don't mean to be too > harsh -- I'd suggest reading any of the common references on how to use > email politely, known as 'netiquette'. One example of such is available > at http://david.woodhou.se/email.html for once i just used default setting in mail client (ximian) ......this kind of crap > > That one doesn't mention disclaimers because the pointlessness of those > is just common sense -- you're posting to a public list and you really > can't put that kind of restriction on the recipients unilaterally. You > achieve nothing except to advertise the stupidity of your management. > Personally, I just kick people off my lists immediately for such things. > But then, HTML mail wouldn't have made it to one of my lists in the > first place. this aint ur list ;-) > This list is a kinder (and hence noisier) place. > disclaimer is added by default by company server .....so there is nothing much I do about it (if you ever worked in a big company ...u know the stupid company disclaimer policy which is enforced on every employee and added to each out going mail)....all i can do add my disclaimer ...disclaiming the disclaimer below ;-) good day, Gaurav *************************************************************************************** My Disclaimer pl ignore anything below this ;-) ***************************************************************************************** -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: signature.asc Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 189 bytes Desc: This is a digitally signed message part URL: From dwmw2 at infradead.org Thu Jan 19 13:16:58 2006 From: dwmw2 at infradead.org (David Woodhouse) Date: Fri, 20 Jan 2006 00:16:58 +1100 Subject: Welcome In-Reply-To: <1137669105.5145.29.camel@sudip-vp-a2.hclcomnet.local> References: <20060114065826.98e1f048.Tommy.Reynolds@MegaCoder.com> <11372624 08.1384.332.camel@erato.phig.org> <20060114124550.bf5167fa.Tommy.Reynolds@M egaCoder.com> <1137537328.24274.64.camel@erato.phig.org> <20060117165417.8a 108e2a.Tommy.Reynolds@MegaCoder.com> <2f9fcf9c0601180353o6493790ev103f653f3c a27257@mail.gmail.com> <43CE2E13.1040508@redhat.com> <1137585607.2194.32.camel@sudip-vp-a2.hclcomnet.local> <43CE34BF.90905@redhat.com> <1137615103.30084.43.camel@localhost.localdomain> <1137669105.5145.29.camel@sudip-vp-a2.hclcomnet.local> Message-ID: <1137676619.30084.167.camel@localhost.localdomain> On Thu, 2006-01-19 at 16:57 +0530, Gaurav Prasad wrote: > sorry dude .......Oh My god look what I have done !!!! I have committed > a crime against humanity !!Btw ... Do you know there were more than 400 > mails in fedora mailing list in 2005 discussing merits / demerits of top > posting ... just for your attention ;-) You haven't committed a crime against humanity; you've just made yourself look impolite and foolish. Nothing you can't recover from in time. > for once i just used default setting in mail client (ximian) ......this > kind of crap Yes, Evolution is a pile of crap -- I agree. I still have bugs open against it because it crashes when it views certain mails; bugs which I opened months ago. Minor things like RFC violations take even longer to get fixed. > this aint ur list ;-) Indeed not. By the way, you misspelled 'your' -- and sentences are generally expected to start with a capital letter. Your own personal 'style' may seem cute to your mother, but it's not really particularly useful when you're communicating in a public forum. It just makes you look foolish. > > This list is a kinder (and hence noisier) place. > > > disclaimer is added by default by company server .....so there is > nothing much I do about it (if you ever worked in a big company ...u > know the stupid company disclaimer policy which is enforced on every > employee and added to each out going mail)....all i can do add my > disclaimer ...disclaiming the disclaimer below ;-) I work in a company which is big enough to have some of its own idiocy; in fact that's why my company email address is generally used _only_ for those emails which I absolutely need to be wearing my tinfoil hat for. Anything which isn't strictly company-internal is done with my own email address, which I know is competently run. However, I do have enough confidence in our legal department to be fairly sure that if some idiot in management wanted to add a pointless disclaimer to all outgoing email, they'd veto such a public announcement of our lack of clue. I know of situations in which companies which have lost contracts to competitors based on little more than their abuse of netiquette. It gives a _very_ bad impression. Especially when you see a stupid disclaimer -- the only thing it really achieves is to trumpet the cluelessness of the company concerned. -- dwmw2 From GauravP at hcl.in Thu Jan 19 13:59:38 2006 From: GauravP at hcl.in (Gaurav Prasad) Date: Thu, 19 Jan 2006 19:29:38 +0530 Subject: Welcome In-Reply-To: <1137676619.30084.167.camel@localhost.localdomain> References: <20060114065826.98e1f048.Tommy.Reynolds@MegaCoder.com> <11372624 08.1384.332.camel@erato.phig.org> <20060114124550.bf5167fa.Tommy.Reynolds@M egaCoder.com> <1137537328.24274.64.camel@erato.phig.org> <20060117165417.8a 108e2a.Tommy.Reynolds@MegaCoder.com> <2f9fcf9c0601180353o6493790ev103f653f3c a27257@mail.gmail.com> <43CE2E13.1040508@redhat.com> <1137585607.2194.32.camel@sudip-vp-a2.hclcomnet.local> <43CE34BF.90905@redhat.com> <1137615103.30084.43.camel@localhost.localdomain> <1137669105.5145.29.camel@sudip-vp-a2.hclcomnet.local> <1137676619.30084.167.camel@localhost.localdomain> Message-ID: <1137678261.6236.35.camel@sudip-vp-a2.hclcomnet.local> On Fri, 2006-01-20 at 00:16 +1100, David Woodhouse wrote: > By the way, you misspelled 'your' -- and sentences are generally > expected to start with a capital letter. Your own personal 'style' may > seem cute to your mother, but it's not really particularly useful when > you're communicating in a public forum. It just makes you look foolish. > ....do u usually waste time like this ....or it your habit to do useless activities like finding or pointing out so called spelling mistakes (which is just abbreviated form ), formatting and calling other people idiot /foolish for for whatever reason ...or its just your inflated ego .... * Stop Wasting Time/sever space over trivial issues ...if you want to teach English grammar do it somewhere else (community school wud be nice)... * Stop being personal and cursing other people ... Didn't your Mama teach you not curse and importance of being polite *If you want to say something about original post than do it *STOP Hijacking the Thread* *If your thinking on responding with another round of personal insults and wasting time list than beat it (instead if you feel strong urge ... you can mail me personally to with all your egoistic crap ;-) )...i wont waste my or list time anymore Regards, gaurav * Do some meditation daily to ur ego in check *My company currently does not allow me check any other email providers , so i use this id while in office other private id when in home ******************************************************************************************************* pl ignore anything below this ;-) ************************************************************************************************ -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: signature.asc Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 189 bytes Desc: This is a digitally signed message part URL: From Tommy.Reynolds at MegaCoder.com Thu Jan 19 17:09:13 2006 From: Tommy.Reynolds at MegaCoder.com (Tommy Reynolds) Date: Thu, 19 Jan 2006 11:09:13 -0600 Subject: Life settled enough to work on RPMs? Message-ID: <20060119110913.4240d0e7.Tommy.Reynolds@MegaCoder.com> Hello, All! I am ready to start checking in some of my hacks against the preliminary work that stickster has done on the RPM packaging front. It's not yet ready for prime time, but it is close. These changes may or not break any packaging currently in place for the FC5 tests, so I thought I'd check the list before doing the commit. So, are you ready to rumble? -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 189 bytes Desc: not available URL: From stickster at gmail.com Thu Jan 19 17:26:45 2006 From: stickster at gmail.com (Paul W. Frields) Date: Thu, 19 Jan 2006 12:26:45 -0500 Subject: Life settled enough to work on RPMs? In-Reply-To: <20060119110913.4240d0e7.Tommy.Reynolds@MegaCoder.com> References: <20060119110913.4240d0e7.Tommy.Reynolds@MegaCoder.com> Message-ID: <1137691605.19063.11.camel@localhost.localdomain> By the way, can we move ahead on putting the tidy-bowl/xmlformat solution in play as well? -- Paul W. Frields, RHCE http://paul.frields.org/ gpg fingerprint: 3DA6 A0AC 6D58 FEC4 0233 5906 ACDB C937 BD11 3717 Fedora Documentation Project: http://fedora.redhat.com/projects/docs/ -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: signature.asc Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 189 bytes Desc: This is a digitally signed message part URL: From stickster at gmail.com Thu Jan 19 17:21:15 2006 From: stickster at gmail.com (Paul W. Frields) Date: Thu, 19 Jan 2006 12:21:15 -0500 Subject: Life settled enough to work on RPMs? In-Reply-To: <20060119110913.4240d0e7.Tommy.Reynolds@MegaCoder.com> References: <20060119110913.4240d0e7.Tommy.Reynolds@MegaCoder.com> Message-ID: <1137691275.19063.1.camel@localhost.localdomain> On Thu, 2006-01-19 at 11:09 -0600, Tommy Reynolds wrote: > Hello, All! > > I am ready to start checking in some of my hacks against > the preliminary work that stickster has done on the RPM > packaging front. It's not yet ready for prime time, > but it is close. > > These changes may or not break any packaging currently > in place for the FC5 tests, so I thought I'd check the > list before doing the commit. > > So, are you ready to rumble? Bring it on! (speaking only for myself, of course) ;-) -- Paul W. Frields, RHCE http://paul.frields.org/ gpg fingerprint: 3DA6 A0AC 6D58 FEC4 0233 5906 ACDB C937 BD11 3717 Fedora Documentation Project: http://fedora.redhat.com/projects/docs/ -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: signature.asc Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 189 bytes Desc: This is a digitally signed message part URL: From stickster at gmail.com Thu Jan 19 17:28:36 2006 From: stickster at gmail.com (Paul W. Frields) Date: Thu, 19 Jan 2006 12:28:36 -0500 Subject: translation-quick-start-guide rpm-info.xml,1.1,1.2 In-Reply-To: <200601190304.k0J34WBx002309@cvs-int.fedora.redhat.com> References: <200601190304.k0J34WBx002309@cvs-int.fedora.redhat.com> Message-ID: <1137691717.19063.16.camel@localhost.localdomain> On Wed, 2006-01-18 at 22:04 -0500, Manuel Ospina wrote: > Author: mospina > > Update of /cvs/docs/translation-quick-start-guide > In directory cvs-int.fedora.redhat.com:/tmp/cvs-serv2291 > > Modified Files: > rpm-info.xml > Log Message: > updated Manuel (&co.), I am working on editing your document. Hopefully I will have a new draft finished shortly. -- Paul W. Frields, RHCE http://paul.frields.org/ gpg fingerprint: 3DA6 A0AC 6D58 FEC4 0233 5906 ACDB C937 BD11 3717 Fedora Documentation Project: http://fedora.redhat.com/projects/docs/ -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: signature.asc Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 189 bytes Desc: This is a digitally signed message part URL: From Tommy.Reynolds at MegaCoder.com Thu Jan 19 17:38:44 2006 From: Tommy.Reynolds at MegaCoder.com (Tommy Reynolds) Date: Thu, 19 Jan 2006 11:38:44 -0600 Subject: Life settled enough to work on RPMs? In-Reply-To: <1137691605.19063.11.camel@localhost.localdomain> References: <20060119110913.4240d0e7.Tommy.Reynolds@MegaCoder.com> <1137691605.19063.11.camel@localhost.localdomain> Message-ID: <20060119113844.122be4fa.Tommy.Reynolds@MegaCoder.com> Uttered "Paul W. Frields" , spake thus: > By the way, can we move ahead on putting the tidy-bowl/xmlformat > solution in play as well? I'm stupid today. (No surprises there.) What needs to be done? Cheers -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 189 bytes Desc: not available URL: From kwade at redhat.com Thu Jan 19 17:57:58 2006 From: kwade at redhat.com (Karsten Wade) Date: Thu, 19 Jan 2006 09:57:58 -0800 Subject: Translation guide In-Reply-To: <1137632710.4045.45.camel@dhcp-118.brisbane.redhat.com> References: <1137632710.4045.45.camel@dhcp-118.brisbane.redhat.com> Message-ID: <1137693478.24274.189.camel@erato.phig.org> On Thu, 2006-01-19 at 11:05 +1000, Manuel Ospina wrote: > Dear Chester and Aman, > > I have added a "Translation Quick Start Guide" to the repository (I > should have reported to the fedora-docs-list before adding it... sorry > about it). Anyway, though the guide is still a draft, it contains the > essential information about how to translate software and documentation > for the Fedora project. I believe it would be useful if we can include > it in the L10N wiki page < http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/L10N/ > . We offer a chance for peer review, which is the best reason for telling folks about your document > Aman, Chester, as you are the maintainers of the Fedora Localization > Project I would need your assistance to export the XML file to the wiki > (I believe making the html file is not enough). I do not recommend moving content from XML to the Wiki. The Wiki serves best for short documentation that is undergoing rapid change, and for collaboration on draft or in-process documentation. We are working on exposing the XML through the Wiki, so that the Wiki is an editor, but this is not ready yet. Our goal for _all_ documentation is to be in XML living in CVS. The Wiki is a step in the direction of that goal. Once you have a document in XML, it is a step backward to move it to the Wiki. I recommend that you: 1. Build the document, assuming you used Fedora Docs tools 'make html' should do fine. 2. Post the document to http://fedora.redhat.com/docs/quickstart- translation-guide. The latter step is where snowlet or aalam can help best. The folks on #fedora-websites can help with the permissions and process for posting the document. - Karsten -- Karsten Wade, RHCE * Sr. Tech Writer * http://people.redhat.com/kwade/ gpg fingerprint: 2680 DBFD D968 3141 0115 5F1B D992 0E06 AD0E 0C41 Content Services Fedora Documentation Project http://www.redhat.com/docs http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/DocsProject -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: signature.asc Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 189 bytes Desc: This is a digitally signed message part URL: From kwade at redhat.com Thu Jan 19 18:02:55 2006 From: kwade at redhat.com (Karsten Wade) Date: Thu, 19 Jan 2006 10:02:55 -0800 Subject: Life settled enough to work on RPMs? In-Reply-To: <20060119113844.122be4fa.Tommy.Reynolds@MegaCoder.com> References: <20060119110913.4240d0e7.Tommy.Reynolds@MegaCoder.com> <1137691605.19063.11.camel@localhost.localdomain> <20060119113844.122be4fa.Tommy.Reynolds@MegaCoder.com> Message-ID: <1137693775.24274.191.camel@erato.phig.org> On Thu, 2006-01-19 at 11:38 -0600, Tommy Reynolds wrote: > Uttered "Paul W. Frields" , spake thus: > > > By the way, can we move ahead on putting the tidy-bowl/xmlformat > > solution in play as well? > > I'm stupid today. (No surprises there.) What needs to be done? I thought that tidy-bowl was running on the CVS server already. - Karsten -- Karsten Wade, RHCE * Sr. Tech Writer * http://people.redhat.com/kwade/ gpg fingerprint: 2680 DBFD D968 3141 0115 5F1B D992 0E06 AD0E 0C41 Content Services Fedora Documentation Project http://www.redhat.com/docs http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/DocsProject -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: signature.asc Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 189 bytes Desc: This is a digitally signed message part URL: From kwade at redhat.com Thu Jan 19 18:13:33 2006 From: kwade at redhat.com (Karsten Wade) Date: Thu, 19 Jan 2006 10:13:33 -0800 Subject: Translation guide In-Reply-To: <1137693478.24274.189.camel@erato.phig.org> References: <1137632710.4045.45.camel@dhcp-118.brisbane.redhat.com> <1137693478.24274.189.camel@erato.phig.org> Message-ID: <1137694413.24274.193.camel@erato.phig.org> On Thu, 2006-01-19 at 09:57 -0800, Karsten Wade wrote: > I recommend that you: > > 1. Build the document, assuming you used Fedora Docs tools 'make html' > should do fine. > > 2. Post the document to http://fedora.redhat.com/docs/quickstart- > translation-guide. > > The latter step is where snowlet or aalam can help best. The folks on > #fedora-websites can help with the permissions and process for posting > the document. As it so happens, aalam and I are in #fedora-docs right now working on this. :) - Karsten -- Karsten Wade, RHCE * Sr. Tech Writer * http://people.redhat.com/kwade/ gpg fingerprint: 2680 DBFD D968 3141 0115 5F1B D992 0E06 AD0E 0C41 Content Services Fedora Documentation Project http://www.redhat.com/docs http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/DocsProject -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: signature.asc Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 189 bytes Desc: This is a digitally signed message part URL: From nman64 at n-man.com Thu Jan 19 19:26:16 2006 From: nman64 at n-man.com (Patrick Barnes) Date: Thu, 19 Jan 2006 13:26:16 -0600 Subject: Welcome In-Reply-To: <1137678261.6236.35.camel@sudip-vp-a2.hclcomnet.local> References: <20060114065826.98e1f048.Tommy.Reynolds@MegaCoder.com> <11372624 08.1384.332.camel@erato.phig.org> <20060114124550.bf5167fa.Tommy.Reynolds@M egaCoder.com> <1137537328.24274.64.camel@erato.phig.org> <20060117165417.8a 108e2a.Tommy.Reynolds@MegaCoder.com> <2f9fcf9c0601180353o6493790ev103f653f3c a27257@mail.gmail.com> <43CE2E13.1040508@redhat.com> <1137585607.2194.32.camel@sudip-vp-a2.hclcomnet.local> <43CE34BF.90905@redhat.com> <1137615103.30084.43.camel@localhost.localdomain> <1137669105.5145.29.camel@sudip-vp-a2.hclcomnet.local> <1137676619.30084.167.camel@localhost.localdomain> <1137678261.6236.35.camel@sudip-vp-a2.hclcomnet.local> Message-ID: <43CFE7D8.70401@n-man.com> Gaurav Prasad wrote: > On Fri, 2006-01-20 at 00:16 +1100, David Woodhouse wrote: > > > By the way, you misspelled 'your' -- and sentences are generally > > expected to start with a capital letter. Your own personal 'style' may > > seem cute to your mother, but it's not really particularly useful when > > you're communicating in a public forum. It just makes you look foolish. > > > ....do u usually waste time like this ....or it your habit to do > useless activities like finding or pointing out so called spelling > mistakes (which is just abbreviated form ), formatting and calling other > people idiot /foolish for for whatever reason ...or its just your > inflated ego .... > He is entirely correct to point out your poor netiquette. Many of the practices you use, such as top-posting and short-handing, are considered childish and rude in a professional environment. This is a list of writers, editors, and translators. You will find no mercy here if you intentionally disregard proper English form. He may be responding in a more hostile manner than is necessary, but he did not call you an idiot. Your rash responses are indefensible. > * Stop Wasting Time/sever space over trivial issues ...if you want to > teach English grammar do it somewhere else (community school wud be > nice)... > While, yes, efforts to educate others might be better placed in an educational institution, you must remember where you are. If you choose to disregard what is considered polite and proper, you cannot expect others to be polite and proper towards you. > * Stop being personal and cursing other people ... Didn't your Mama > teach you not curse and importance of being polite > He is being far more polite at this time than you are, though you could both do well to calm yourselves. He has not once uttered a curse against you. > *If you want to say something about original post than do it *STOP > Hijacking the Thread* > His response was a legitimate follow-up to your post. Your post is perhaps more questionable. > *If your thinking on responding with another round of personal insults > and wasting time list than beat it (instead if you feel strong urge ... > you can mail me personally to with all your egoistic crap ;-) )...i wont > waste my or list time anymore > He may have been more insulting than necessary, but he is doing nothing more than standing up for a legitimate position. > > Regards, > gaurav > > * Do some meditation daily to ur ego in check > *My company currently does not allow me check any other email > providers , so i use this id while in office other private id when in > home > > > ******************************************************************************************************* > pl ignore anything below this ;-) > > ************************************************************************************************ You should try to talk your employer into removing or modifying the disclaimer. I'm sure there are wise people among them who would be willing to work something out. It really is counter-productive. If you are going to continue posting to this list, please regard the simple style and manner guidelines that the rest of us adhere to. It doesn't take much effort to follow the simple rules -- typing complete words and sentences, using proper punctuation and capitalization, running a simple spell-check, etc. The rest of us have no complaints regarding this processes, and it has served us well for a very long time. At the very least, it would save you from irritating messages from the less-tolerant subscribers. Continuing to disregard and disrespect the rest of the list will certainly not serve you well. Now, can we please all be gentlemen and let this thread die. Let us resume our normal activities, and try to show respect for one another, no matter how much it hurts to do so. ;-) -- Patrick "The N-Man" Barnes nman64 at n-man.com http://www.n-man.com/ -- -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: signature.asc Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 189 bytes Desc: OpenPGP digital signature URL: From dwmw2 at infradead.org Thu Jan 19 19:46:54 2006 From: dwmw2 at infradead.org (David Woodhouse) Date: Fri, 20 Jan 2006 06:46:54 +1100 Subject: Welcome In-Reply-To: <1137678261.6236.35.camel@sudip-vp-a2.hclcomnet.local> References: <20060114065826.98e1f048.Tommy.Reynolds@MegaCoder.com> <11372624 08.1384.332.camel@erato.phig.org> <20060114124550.bf5167fa.Tommy.Reynolds@M egaCoder.com> <1137537328.24274.64.camel@erato.phig.org> <20060117165417.8a 108e2a.Tommy.Reynolds@MegaCoder.com> <2f9fcf9c0601180353o6493790ev103f653f3c a27257@mail.gmail.com> <43CE2E13.1040508@redhat.com> <1137585607.2194.32.camel@sudip-vp-a2.hclcomnet.local> <43CE34BF.90905@redhat.com> <1137615103.30084.43.camel@localhost.localdomain> <1137669105.5145.29.camel@sudip-vp-a2.hclcomnet.local> <1137676619.30084.167.camel@localhost.localdomain> <1137678261.6236.35.camel@sudip-vp-a2.hclcomnet.local> Message-ID: <1137700014.30084.183.camel@localhost.localdomain> On Thu, 2006-01-19 at 19:29 +0530, Gaurav Prasad wrote: > * Stop being personal and cursing other people ... Didn't your Mama > teach you not curse and importance of being polite I merely asked that you conform with some of the conventions which make communication easier. That is, after all, what this list is for. To say that certain behaviour makes you look foolish is not equivalent to saying that you _are_ a foolish person -- it certainly wasn't meant as a personal attack. But if you interpreted it as such, then please accept my apologies. -- dwmw2 From Tommy.Reynolds at MegaCoder.com Thu Jan 19 19:53:58 2006 From: Tommy.Reynolds at MegaCoder.com (Tommy Reynolds) Date: Thu, 19 Jan 2006 13:53:58 -0600 Subject: RPM Packaging: here we go! Message-ID: <20060119135358.c308bec2.Tommy.Reynolds@MegaCoder.com> Hi, All! I've just checked in the RPM packaging changes needed to get RPM building into the "docs-common/Makefile.common" infrastructure. There are still some serious problems with the packaging; it is NOT yet ready for general usage, so if you are not interested in RPM debugging, best steer clear for the time being. But, when all this works, you will be able to create your document RPM's by installing the docs-common RPM and then: $ make rpm so just be a patient a couple of more days. Cheers! -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 189 bytes Desc: not available URL: From sundaram at redhat.com Thu Jan 19 20:09:56 2006 From: sundaram at redhat.com (Rahul Sundaram) Date: Fri, 20 Jan 2006 01:39:56 +0530 Subject: Ship the FAQ Message-ID: <43CFF214.1090305@redhat.com> Hi Would it make better sense to include this FAQ http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/FAQ along with the release notes. Might be a default browser bookmark too. I would like someone to review the FAQ and consider including it in the release. -- Rahul Fedora Bug Triaging - http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/BugZappers From fcdocs at fletchersweb.net Thu Jan 19 20:46:15 2006 From: fcdocs at fletchersweb.net (David Fletcher) Date: Thu, 19 Jan 2006 20:46:15 +0000 Subject: Burning iso files Message-ID: <200601192046.15391.fcdocs@fletchersweb.net> There was a discussion on the Fedora list today, about how to help new users make sure they create the installation CDs correctly. My suggestion, which seems to be viewed as being a good idea, is to place a text file called READ_THIS_FIRST in the same folder as the iso files. It would contain some very basic information about how the CD burning process operates, and how to use the iso files. The objectives would be to make the first installation of Fedora Core less frustrating for beginners, and reduce the wastage of blank CD-Rs. I am happy to spend some of my time doing a little typing to achieve these objectives. Regards, Dave Fletcher -- Registered Linux user number 393408 From sundaram at redhat.com Thu Jan 19 20:49:44 2006 From: sundaram at redhat.com (Rahul Sundaram) Date: Fri, 20 Jan 2006 02:19:44 +0530 Subject: Burning iso files In-Reply-To: <200601192046.15391.fcdocs@fletchersweb.net> References: <200601192046.15391.fcdocs@fletchersweb.net> Message-ID: <43CFFB68.5070805@redhat.com> David Fletcher wrote: >There was a discussion on the Fedora list today, about how to help new users >make sure they create the installation CDs correctly. > >My suggestion, which seems to be viewed as being a good idea, is to place a >text file called READ_THIS_FIRST in the same folder as the iso files. It >would contain some very basic information about how the CD burning process >operates, and how to use the iso files. > >The objectives would be to make the first installation of Fedora Core less >frustrating for beginners, and reduce the wastage of blank CD-Rs. > >I am happy to spend some of my time doing a little typing to achieve these >objectives. > Go ahead and send us the writeup. We might include it within the mirrors or atleast in the download section. -- Rahul Fedora Bug Triaging - http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/BugZappers From stuart at elsn.org Thu Jan 19 20:58:37 2006 From: stuart at elsn.org (Stuart Ellis) Date: Thu, 19 Jan 2006 20:58:37 +0000 Subject: Ship the FAQ In-Reply-To: <43CFF214.1090305@redhat.com> References: <43CFF214.1090305@redhat.com> Message-ID: <1137704317.3008.12.camel@localhost.localdomain> On Fri, 2006-01-20 at 01:39 +0530, Rahul Sundaram wrote: > Hi > > Would it make better sense to include this FAQ > http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/FAQ along with the release notes. Might be > a default browser bookmark too. I would like someone to review the FAQ > and consider including it in the release. > I think that it would be a very useful document to offer, however we can. The main issue with it currently is that some of the pages it links to may need a bit of cleanup, e.g. getting the distribution and rebranding are separate topics, as security features and security bugs. As an attempt to be useful I've reorganised the Questions to hopefully make it easier to read, and will do a bit more editing. As I understand it, adding files to the ISOs requires modifying the build process, but obviously we can at least put a link to FAQ in the Release Notes without much work. -- Stuart Ellis stuart at elsn.org Fedora Documentation Project: http://fedora.redhat.com/projects/docs/ GPG key ID: 7098ABEA GPG key fingerprint: 68B0 E291 FB19 C845 E60E 9569 292E E365 7098 ABEA -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: signature.asc Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 189 bytes Desc: This is a digitally signed message part URL: From sundaram at redhat.com Thu Jan 19 21:04:23 2006 From: sundaram at redhat.com (Rahul Sundaram) Date: Fri, 20 Jan 2006 02:34:23 +0530 Subject: Ship the FAQ In-Reply-To: <1137704317.3008.12.camel@localhost.localdomain> References: <43CFF214.1090305@redhat.com> <1137704317.3008.12.camel@localhost.localdomain> Message-ID: <43CFFED7.3010309@redhat.com> Stuart Ellis wrote: >On Fri, 2006-01-20 at 01:39 +0530, Rahul Sundaram wrote: > > >>Hi >> >>Would it make better sense to include this FAQ >>http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/FAQ along with the release notes. Might be >>a default browser bookmark too. I would like someone to review the FAQ >>and consider including it in the release. >> >> >> > >I think that it would be a very useful document to offer, however we >can. The main issue with it currently is that some of the pages it links >to may need a bit of cleanup, e.g. getting the distribution and >rebranding are separate topics, as security features and security bugs. >As an attempt to be useful I've reorganised the Questions to hopefully >make it easier to read, and will do a bit more editing. > > I am aware of that. I could use some help. >As I understand it, adding files to the ISOs requires modifying the >build process, but obviously we can at least put a link to FAQ in the >Release Notes without much work. > > I would like to get it included within the ISO images really. Link to release notes too obviously but thats already done. http://fedora.redhat.com/docs/release-notes/fc5/test2-latest-en/index.html#sn-welcome -- Rahul Fedora Bug Triaging - http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/BugZappers From stickster at gmail.com Thu Jan 19 22:21:13 2006 From: stickster at gmail.com (Paul W. Frields) Date: Thu, 19 Jan 2006 17:21:13 -0500 Subject: docs-common/packaging fedora-doc-common.spec, 1.5, 1.6 fedora-doc.spec.in.common, 1.2, 1.3 In-Reply-To: <200601191950.k0JJoDET004004@cvs-int.fedora.redhat.com> References: <200601191950.k0JJoDET004004@cvs-int.fedora.redhat.com> Message-ID: <1137709273.19063.21.camel@localhost.localdomain> Question about this follows, keep reading... On Thu, 2006-01-19 at 14:50 -0500, Tommy Reynolds wrote: > Author: jtr > > Update of /cvs/docs/docs-common/packaging > In directory cvs-int.fedora.redhat.com:/tmp/cvs-serv3874/docs-common/packaging > > Modified Files: > fedora-doc-common.spec fedora-doc.spec.in.common > Log Message: > First cut a integrating the RPM packaging stuff with the > "docs-common/Makefile.common" infrastructure. While this appears to > work *somewhat* with the "example-tutorial", it is certainly not > ready for prime time yet. > > TODO: > 1) Verify that all generated RPM's have the necessary files inside. > 2) Mangle the "../docs-common" strings in Makefiles, *.xml, to > reference the "/usr/share/fedora/doc" ${FDPDIR} so that we don't > need to bugger the RPM checksums of the files by altering them at > RPM install time. > 3) Buy a beer all round. > > > [...snip...] > Index: fedora-doc.spec.in.common > =================================================================== > RCS file: /cvs/docs/docs-common/packaging/fedora-doc.spec.in.common,v > retrieving revision 1.2 > retrieving revision 1.3 > diff -u -r1.2 -r1.3 > --- fedora-doc.spec.in.common 21 Nov 2005 00:37:58 -0000 1.2 > +++ fedora-doc.spec.in.common 19 Jan 2006 19:50:05 -0000 1.3 > @@ -25,9 +25,12 @@ > > %prep > %setup -q -n %{docbase}-%{version} > +# FIXME: Need to do this remapping in the RPM build section, since it > +# causes "rpm -V foo" to fail, even if it's done immediately after an > +# install... > for i in $RPM_BUILD_DIR/%{docbase}-%{version}/%{docbase}*.xml > do > - %{__sed} -i 's!../docs-common/!../../docs-common/!' "$i" > + %{__sed} -i 's!../docs-common/!/usr/share/fedora/doc/docs-common/!' "$i" > done I haven't seen that failure... I don't have any wacky RPM macros AFAIK, and if I build the example-tutorial RPM and install, "rpm -V example-tutorial" returns an okey-doke. Doesn't the package checksumming, etc., come after %install? -- Paul W. Frields, RHCE http://paul.frields.org/ gpg fingerprint: 3DA6 A0AC 6D58 FEC4 0233 5906 ACDB C937 BD11 3717 Fedora Documentation Project: http://fedora.redhat.com/projects/docs/ -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: signature.asc Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 189 bytes Desc: This is a digitally signed message part URL: From stickster at gmail.com Thu Jan 19 22:25:48 2006 From: stickster at gmail.com (Paul W. Frields) Date: Thu, 19 Jan 2006 17:25:48 -0500 Subject: Life settled enough to work on RPMs? In-Reply-To: <20060119113844.122be4fa.Tommy.Reynolds@MegaCoder.com> References: <20060119110913.4240d0e7.Tommy.Reynolds@MegaCoder.com> <1137691605.19063.11.camel@localhost.localdomain> <20060119113844.122be4fa.Tommy.Reynolds@MegaCoder.com> Message-ID: <1137709548.19063.24.camel@localhost.localdomain> On Thu, 2006-01-19 at 11:38 -0600, Tommy Reynolds wrote: > Uttered "Paul W. Frields" , spake thus: > > > By the way, can we move ahead on putting the tidy-bowl/xmlformat > > solution in play as well? > > I'm stupid today. (No surprises there.) What needs to be done? I think it's only turned on for the xml-normalize module (q.v. CVSROOT/commitinfo). Do we want to turn it on for a couple additional modules just to see if it works out OK before we start a wholesale mangling? -- Paul W. Frields, RHCE http://paul.frields.org/ gpg fingerprint: 3DA6 A0AC 6D58 FEC4 0233 5906 ACDB C937 BD11 3717 Fedora Documentation Project: http://fedora.redhat.com/projects/docs/ -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: signature.asc Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 189 bytes Desc: This is a digitally signed message part URL: From stickster at gmail.com Thu Jan 19 22:29:00 2006 From: stickster at gmail.com (Paul W. Frields) Date: Thu, 19 Jan 2006 17:29:00 -0500 Subject: Burning iso files In-Reply-To: <200601192046.15391.fcdocs@fletchersweb.net> References: <200601192046.15391.fcdocs@fletchersweb.net> Message-ID: <1137709741.19063.27.camel@localhost.localdomain> On Thu, 2006-01-19 at 20:46 +0000, David Fletcher wrote: > There was a discussion on the Fedora list today, about how to help new users > make sure they create the installation CDs correctly. > > My suggestion, which seems to be viewed as being a good idea, is to place a > text file called READ_THIS_FIRST in the same folder as the iso files. It > would contain some very basic information about how the CD burning process > operates, and how to use the iso files. > > The objectives would be to make the first installation of Fedora Core less > frustrating for beginners, and reduce the wastage of blank CD-Rs. > > I am happy to spend some of my time doing a little typing to achieve these > objectives. This is a good idea. There's never been a canonical document about this, and it seems like something that *should* be explained through hand-holding. -- Paul W. Frields, RHCE http://paul.frields.org/ gpg fingerprint: 3DA6 A0AC 6D58 FEC4 0233 5906 ACDB C937 BD11 3717 Fedora Documentation Project: http://fedora.redhat.com/projects/docs/ -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: signature.asc Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 189 bytes Desc: This is a digitally signed message part URL: From kwade at redhat.com Thu Jan 19 22:31:40 2006 From: kwade at redhat.com (Karsten Wade) Date: Thu, 19 Jan 2006 14:31:40 -0800 Subject: Ship the FAQ In-Reply-To: <1137704317.3008.12.camel@localhost.localdomain> References: <43CFF214.1090305@redhat.com> <1137704317.3008.12.camel@localhost.localdomain> Message-ID: <1137709901.24274.250.camel@erato.phig.org> On Thu, 2006-01-19 at 20:58 +0000, Stuart Ellis wrote: > As I understand it, adding files to the ISOs requires modifying the > build process, but obviously we can at least put a link to FAQ in the > Release Notes without much work. Good question, we'll ask Jesse Keating as he is now the maintainer of the fedora-release package. We can put the FAQ on the local filesystem. How to link to it? Perhaps we have a make target that is a special build for the fedora-release package, adding an additional link for the absolute local file:////usr/share/doc/fedora-release/FAQ. Then the for- Web version points at the cleaned-up Wiki. - Karsten -- Karsten Wade, RHCE * Sr. Tech Writer * http://people.redhat.com/kwade/ gpg fingerprint: 2680 DBFD D968 3141 0115 5F1B D992 0E06 AD0E 0C41 Content Services Fedora Documentation Project http://www.redhat.com/docs http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/DocsProject -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: signature.asc Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 189 bytes Desc: This is a digitally signed message part URL: From Tommy.Reynolds at MegaCoder.com Fri Jan 20 00:56:38 2006 From: Tommy.Reynolds at MegaCoder.com (Tommy Reynolds) Date: Thu, 19 Jan 2006 18:56:38 -0600 Subject: docs-common/packaging fedora-doc-common.spec, 1.5, 1.6 fedora-doc.spec.in.common, 1.2, 1.3 In-Reply-To: <1137709273.19063.21.camel@localhost.localdomain> References: <200601191950.k0JJoDET004004@cvs-int.fedora.redhat.com> <1137709273.19063.21.camel@localhost.localdomain> Message-ID: <20060119185638.4506d34a.Tommy.Reynolds@MegaCoder.com> Uttered "Paul W. Frields" , spake thus: > > +# FIXME: Need to do this remapping in the RPM build section, since it > > +# causes "rpm -V foo" to fail, even if it's done immediately after an > > +# install... > > for i in $RPM_BUILD_DIR/%{docbase}-%{version}/%{docbase}*.xml > > do > > - %{__sed} -i 's!../docs-common/!../../docs-common/!' "$i" > > + %{__sed} -i 's!../docs-common/!/usr/share/fedora/doc/docs-common/!' "$i" > > done > I haven't seen that failure... I don't have any wacky RPM macros AFAIK, > and if I build the example-tutorial RPM and install, "rpm -V > example-tutorial" returns an okey-doke. Doesn't the package > checksumming, etc., come after %install? I hadn't actually seen that either. That's really a note to investigate this behavior. If we keep this to the %prep section we should be OK. Cheers -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 189 bytes Desc: not available URL: From Tommy.Reynolds at MegaCoder.com Fri Jan 20 01:06:45 2006 From: Tommy.Reynolds at MegaCoder.com (Tommy Reynolds) Date: Thu, 19 Jan 2006 19:06:45 -0600 Subject: Life settled enough to work on RPMs? In-Reply-To: <1137709548.19063.24.camel@localhost.localdomain> References: <20060119110913.4240d0e7.Tommy.Reynolds@MegaCoder.com> <1137691605.19063.11.camel@localhost.localdomain> <20060119113844.122be4fa.Tommy.Reynolds@MegaCoder.com> <1137709548.19063.24.camel@localhost.localdomain> Message-ID: <20060119190645.d14a988d.Tommy.Reynolds@MegaCoder.com> Uttered "Paul W. Frields" , spake thus: > I think it's only turned on for the xml-normalize module (q.v. > CVSROOT/commitinfo). Do we want to turn it on for a couple additional > modules just to see if it works out OK before we start a wholesale > mangling? I see. Yes. However, looking at the comments in "commitinfo", it seems that only one script name is allowed. Will you write a wrapper script that checks the ACL's and then invokes the prettyprinter? Cheers -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 189 bytes Desc: not available URL: From sfolkwil at redhat.com Fri Jan 20 12:28:29 2006 From: sfolkwil at redhat.com (Sam Folk-Williams) Date: Fri, 20 Jan 2006 07:28:29 -0500 Subject: self-introduction: sam folk-williams Message-ID: <43D0D76D.9020409@redhat.com> -----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- Hash: SHA1 name: sam folk-williams City, Country; Raleigh, NC, USA Profession: Technical Support Engineer Company or School: Red Hat Your goals in the Fedora Project What do you want to write about? Specifically, I would like to contribute to documentation on the Xen project. What other documentation do you want to see published? I'd like to see more how-to's or "knowledge base" type articles that walk new users through specific problems or common pitfalls. - -Do you want to edit for grammar/writing and/or technical accuracy? I certainly can do this. - -Historical qualifications - -What other projects or writing have you worked on in the past? I have worked as a professional writer for several years. I have articles published in various places on the web. Currently, I'm contributed to Red Hat's knowledge base (kbase.redhat.com). - -What level and type of computer skills do you have? I have an RHCE and I am working towards my RHCA -- I provide support of all kinds to linux users. - -What other skills do you have that might be applicable? I have a lot of "soft skills" and work a lot with a variety of folks. - -What makes you an excellent match for the project? I love fedora, I use it all the time for work and personal computing, and I actively encourage other people to use it. I have a strong background in writing, training, and providing technical support. - - GPG KEYID and fingerprint pub 1024D/1B0D46BA 2005-11-01 Key fingerprint = 4832 3A28 C266 0CB5 7931 5AF1 CCEC 3EBC 1B0D 46BA uid Sam Folk-Williams sub 1024g/5EEFE462 2005-11-01 -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: GnuPG v1.4.1 (GNU/Linux) Comment: Using GnuPG with Fedora - http://enigmail.mozdev.org iD8DBQFD0NdtzOw+vBsNRroRAhONAKCsQz0hiwMaYJrVfI/nc680fMohPgCdH1Pd bLInTsUYlo9uxV7pHbBuRq4= =/VCw -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- From galbotrix007 at gmail.com Fri Jan 20 17:40:12 2006 From: galbotrix007 at gmail.com (Sameer Niphadkar) Date: Fri, 20 Jan 2006 23:10:12 +0530 Subject: Welcome In-Reply-To: <43CFE7D8.70401@n-man.com> References: <20060114065826.98e1f048.Tommy.Reynolds@MegaCoder.com> <1137537328.24274.64.camel@erato.phig.org> <43CE2E13.1040508@redhat.com> <1137585607.2194.32.camel@sudip-vp-a2.hclcomnet.local> <43CE34BF.90905@redhat.com> <1137615103.30084.43.camel@localhost.localdomain> <1137669105.5145.29.camel@sudip-vp-a2.hclcomnet.local> <1137676619.30084.167.camel@localhost.localdomain> <1137678261.6236.35.camel@sudip-vp-a2.hclcomnet.local> <43CFE7D8.70401@n-man.com> Message-ID: <2f9fcf9c0601200940w563d3522n456a3c59ed0a64d9@mail.gmail.com> Looks like it comes back to me to terminate this thread...Well here are some of my answers to the poated questions. /* Not sure how they connect. Do you mean a guide that explain both GUI and command line tools?. If you have a table of contents and summary that would be very useful to get started. */ I ment a commandl line doc for the GUI users, mostly explaining the GUI software implementations and the equivalent commands. I'd definitely post my table of contents and summary very soon. /* Does any of the Fedora Core or Extras packages support this? */ To be very frank...I don't know. But the least I know about is LTT (Linux Trace Toolkit) has somewhat similar document. Though not covering dynamic tracing. www.opersys.com/LTT/documentation.html /* Sure. If you are interested we will pass on new revisions of documents to you for verification. */ Thanks a lot. I might help with a few things /* Is the paper available online?. Just curious. */ http://www.geocities.com/sniphadkar/Dtrace.ppt - Its the presentation http://www.geocities.com/sniphadkar/Foss.pdf ( Another Paper) /*Can you provide links to the specific articles? */ Most common link : http://www.osnews.com/story.php?news_id=6252 rgds Sameer From kwade at redhat.com Fri Jan 20 19:01:02 2006 From: kwade at redhat.com (Karsten Wade) Date: Fri, 20 Jan 2006 11:01:02 -0800 Subject: self-introduction: sam folk-williams In-Reply-To: <43D0D76D.9020409@redhat.com> References: <43D0D76D.9020409@redhat.com> Message-ID: <1137783663.24274.322.camel@erato.phig.org> On Fri, 2006-01-20 at 07:28 -0500, Sam Folk-Williams wrote: > -----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- > Hash: SHA1 > > name: sam folk-williams Hey, Sam, welcome. > What do you want to write about? Specifically, I would like to > contribute to documentation on the Xen project. Aside from any longer documents you might want to write, would you interested in covering the Xen beat for the release notes? http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Docs/Beats/Kernel Maybe we need a Kernel/Xen ... or another Xen specific page, as things are heating up here. I don't think anyone is focusing on Xen for the release notes, and I think these new technologies need special coverage in the relnotes for a few releases around their introduction into Fedora. > What other documentation do you want to see published? I'd like to see > more how-to's or "knowledge base" type articles that walk new users > through specific problems or common pitfalls. We've discussed k-base with the Websites group. Maybe as an extension to a CMS? Regardless, we could use some help getting this kickstarted. > - -Do you want to edit for grammar/writing and/or technical accuracy? I > certainly can do this. We want to encourage more peer reviews, that's what this is about. Cheers - Karsten -- Karsten Wade, RHCE * Sr. Tech Writer * http://people.redhat.com/kwade/ gpg fingerprint: 2680 DBFD D968 3141 0115 5F1B D992 0E06 AD0E 0C41 Content Services Fedora Documentation Project http://www.redhat.com/docs http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/DocsProject -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: signature.asc Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 189 bytes Desc: This is a digitally signed message part URL: From sfolkwil at redhat.com Fri Jan 20 21:41:33 2006 From: sfolkwil at redhat.com (Sam Folk-Williams) Date: Fri, 20 Jan 2006 16:41:33 -0500 Subject: self-introduction: sam folk-williams In-Reply-To: <1137783663.24274.322.camel@erato.phig.org> References: <43D0D76D.9020409@redhat.com> <1137783663.24274.322.camel@erato.phig.org> Message-ID: <43D1590D.8020009@redhat.com> -----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- Hash: SHA1 Karsten Wade wrote: > Hey, Sam, welcome. Thanks Karsten! > >>What do you want to write about? Specifically, I would like to >>contribute to documentation on the Xen project. > > > Aside from any longer documents you might want to write, would you > interested in covering the Xen beat for the release notes? > Absolutely. I need to get up to speed on the workflow process, but I'd love to do this. > http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Docs/Beats/Kernel > > Maybe we need a Kernel/Xen ... or another Xen specific page, as things > are heating up here. I don't think anyone is focusing on Xen for the > release notes, and I think these new technologies need special coverage > in the relnotes for a few releases around their introduction into > Fedora. > > We've discussed k-base with the Websites group. Maybe as an extension > to a CMS? Regardless, we could use some help getting this kickstarted. > Would love to help however I can. > >>- -Do you want to edit for grammar/writing and/or technical accuracy? I >>certainly can do this. > > > We want to encourage more peer reviews, that's what this is about. > > Cheers - Karsten > - -- Sam Folk-Williams, RHCE Red Hat Global Support Services GPG ID: 1024D/1B0D46BA Public Key: http://people.redhat.com/sfolkwil/sfw.asc -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: GnuPG v1.4.1 (GNU/Linux) Comment: Using GnuPG with Fedora - http://enigmail.mozdev.org iD8DBQFD0VkNzOw+vBsNRroRAmsYAJ9kHp3s4OfaPYgV2cjWFQjXGLc2QwCgoN1t Bz5cuKb5N/TbSeOuP6DwPFE= =p2jj -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- From fcdocs at fletchersweb.net Fri Jan 20 21:44:51 2006 From: fcdocs at fletchersweb.net (David Fletcher) Date: Fri, 20 Jan 2006 21:44:51 +0000 Subject: Burning iso files In-Reply-To: <43CFFB68.5070805@redhat.com> References: <200601192046.15391.fcdocs@fletchersweb.net> <43CFFB68.5070805@redhat.com> Message-ID: <200601202145.06480.fcdocs@fletchersweb.net> On Thursday 19 Jan 2006 20:49, Rahul Sundaram wrote: > David Fletcher wrote: > >There was a discussion on the Fedora list today, about how to help new > > users make sure they create the installation CDs correctly. > > > >My suggestion, which seems to be viewed as being a good idea, is to place > > a text file called READ_THIS_FIRST in the same folder as the iso files. > > It would contain some very basic information about how the CD burning > > process operates, and how to use the iso files. > > > >The objectives would be to make the first installation of Fedora Core less > >frustrating for beginners, and reduce the wastage of blank CD-Rs. > > > >I am happy to spend some of my time doing a little typing to achieve these > >objectives. > > Go ahead and send us the writeup. We might include it within the mirrors > or atleast in the download section. Rahul, Here is my READ_THIS_FIRST file. Perhaps you good people would be kind enough to peer review it and put it to good use? I have converted the file to have the CR + LF line endings used by DOS. It should be more appropriate for the intended audience. Dave Fletcher -- Registered Linux user number 393408 -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: READ_THIS_FIRST Type: application/octet-stream Size: 4464 bytes Desc: not available URL: -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 189 bytes Desc: not available URL: From sundaram at redhat.com Sat Jan 21 09:42:38 2006 From: sundaram at redhat.com (Rahul Sundaram) Date: Sat, 21 Jan 2006 15:12:38 +0530 Subject: Welcome In-Reply-To: <2f9fcf9c0601200940w563d3522n456a3c59ed0a64d9@mail.gmail.com> References: <20060114065826.98e1f048.Tommy.Reynolds@MegaCoder.com> <1137537328.24274.64.camel@erato.phig.org> <43CE2E13.1040508@redhat.com> <1137585607.2194.32.camel@sudip-vp-a2.hclcomnet.local> <43CE34BF.90905@redhat.com> <1137615103.30084.43.camel@localhost.localdomain> <1137669105.5145.29.camel@sudip-vp-a2.hclcomnet.local> <1137676619.30084.167.camel@localhost.localdomain> <1137678261.6236.35.camel@sudip-vp-a2.hclcomnet.local> <43CFE7D8.70401@n-man.com> <2f9fcf9c0601200940w563d3522n456a3c59ed0a64d9@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <43D2020E.3070704@redhat.com> Sameer Niphadkar wrote: > Looks like it comes back to me to terminate this thread...Well here >are some of my answers to the poated questions. >/* >Not sure how they connect. Do you mean a guide that explain both GUI and >command line tools?. If you have a table of contents and summary that >would be very useful to get started. >*/ >I ment a commandl line doc for the GUI users, mostly explaining the >GUI software implementations and the equivalent commands. I'd >definitely post my table of contents and summary very soon. > > See a list of drafts and ideas available at http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Docs/Drafts >/* Does any of the Fedora Core or Extras packages support this? */ >To be very frank...I don't know. But the least I know about is LTT >(Linux Trace Toolkit) has somewhat similar document. Though not >covering dynamic tracing. >www.opersys.com/LTT/documentation.html > > Duh. I missed out a big thing. http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/SystemTap. SystemTap is part of the current Fedora development tree and will be in Fedora Core 5. Take a look at it. It rocks!. > >/* Sure. If you are interested we will pass on new revisions of documents >to you for verification. */ >Thanks a lot. I might help with a few things > > http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/DocsProject/DocIdeas >/* Is the paper available online?. Just curious. */ >http://www.geocities.com/sniphadkar/Dtrace.ppt - Its the presentation > > You should check out both SystemTap and Frysk from Red Hat http://sourceware.org/systemtap/ http://sourceware.org/frysk/ hey, even a good unbiased review of these technologies and things like Dtrace and LTT can be done as part of my Fedora Journal effort. Mail me off list if you want to know more details. >http://www.geocities.com/sniphadkar/Foss.pdf ( Another Paper) > > Not accessible. > >/*Can you provide links to the specific articles? */ >Most common link : http://www.osnews.com/story.php?news_id=6252 > > > Ok. We could use an editor. -- Rahul Fedora Bug Triaging - http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/BugZappers From Tommy.Reynolds at MegaCoder.com Sat Jan 21 14:32:39 2006 From: Tommy.Reynolds at MegaCoder.com (Tommy Reynolds) Date: Sat, 21 Jan 2006 08:32:39 -0600 Subject: docs-common/bin insert-changelog,1.5,1.6 In-Reply-To: <200601210248.k0L2m5AP004366@cvs-int.fedora.redhat.com> References: <200601210248.k0L2m5AP004366@cvs-int.fedora.redhat.com> Message-ID: <20060121083239.d00826c4.Tommy.Reynolds@MegaCoder.com> Uttered "Paul W. Frields" (pfrields) , spake thus: > - REVDATE=`date +"%Y-%M-%d"` > + REVDATE=`date +"%Y-%m-%d"` While I realize that the RPM-mandated date string "%s %b %d %Y" will not sort very well, at least it won't mess up the RPM changelog. Shouldn't we be using that for this insert command? Cheers -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 189 bytes Desc: not available URL: From stickster at gmail.com Sat Jan 21 17:18:03 2006 From: stickster at gmail.com (Paul W. Frields) Date: Sat, 21 Jan 2006 12:18:03 -0500 Subject: docs-common/bin insert-changelog,1.5,1.6 In-Reply-To: <20060121083239.d00826c4.Tommy.Reynolds@MegaCoder.com> References: <200601210248.k0L2m5AP004366@cvs-int.fedora.redhat.com> <20060121083239.d00826c4.Tommy.Reynolds@MegaCoder.com> Message-ID: <1137863883.24560.5.camel@localhost.localdomain> On Sat, 2006-01-21 at 08:32 -0600, Tommy Reynolds wrote: > Uttered "Paul W. Frields" (pfrields) , spake thus: > > > - REVDATE=`date +"%Y-%M-%d"` > > + REVDATE=`date +"%Y-%m-%d"` > > While I realize that the RPM-mandated date string "%s %b %d %Y" will > not sort very well, at least it won't mess up the RPM changelog. > Shouldn't we be using that for this insert command? The script sets the date format for an rpm @date to "%a %b %d %Y", and the date format for a doc @date as above. I don't really mind if we use the same thing for both, but it would be really cool if, whatever we use, we could figure out a way of checking sanity on it. (On the other hand, that may only be a problem for rpm-info files that are created right now from the doc revisionhistory elements, since new ones, where the maintainers use "make clog", will simply Work Right.) If you'd like to change this to have them all work the same, I'm OK with that; DocBook doesn't dictate a date format so it all comes out in the wash. -- Paul W. Frields, RHCE http://paul.frields.org/ gpg fingerprint: 3DA6 A0AC 6D58 FEC4 0233 5906 ACDB C937 BD11 3717 Fedora Documentation Project: http://fedora.redhat.com/projects/docs/ -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: signature.asc Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 189 bytes Desc: This is a digitally signed message part URL: From galbotrix007 at gmail.com Sat Jan 21 17:43:40 2006 From: galbotrix007 at gmail.com (Sameer Niphadkar) Date: Sat, 21 Jan 2006 23:13:40 +0530 Subject: Welcome In-Reply-To: <43D2020E.3070704@redhat.com> References: <20060114065826.98e1f048.Tommy.Reynolds@MegaCoder.com> <1137585607.2194.32.camel@sudip-vp-a2.hclcomnet.local> <43CE34BF.90905@redhat.com> <1137615103.30084.43.camel@localhost.localdomain> <1137669105.5145.29.camel@sudip-vp-a2.hclcomnet.local> <1137676619.30084.167.camel@localhost.localdomain> <1137678261.6236.35.camel@sudip-vp-a2.hclcomnet.local> <43CFE7D8.70401@n-man.com> <2f9fcf9c0601200940w563d3522n456a3c59ed0a64d9@mail.gmail.com> <43D2020E.3070704@redhat.com> Message-ID: <2f9fcf9c0601210943y53b86802yf42a97f5daa6c8de@mail.gmail.com> > See a list of drafts and ideas available at > http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Docs/Drafts > This is interesting, I'll have a closer look at System Tap and would come up with my observations. > Duh. I missed out a big thing. http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/SystemTap. > SystemTap is part of the current Fedora development tree and will be in > Fedora Core 5. Take a look at it. It rocks!. > You should check out both SystemTap and Frysk from Red Hat > http://sourceware.org/systemtap/ > http://sourceware.org/frysk/ > > hey, even a good unbiased review of these technologies and things like > Dtrace and LTT can be done as part of my Fedora Journal effort. Mail me > off list if you want to know more details. I'm thinking on the similar lines . rgds Sameer From fedoradocs at ddeutsch.org Sun Jan 22 02:14:42 2006 From: fedoradocs at ddeutsch.org (Debra Deutsch) Date: Sat, 21 Jan 2006 21:14:42 -0500 Subject: Self-Introduction: Debra Deutsch Message-ID: <43D2EA92.6090301@ddeutsch.org> -----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- Hash: SHA1 Full legal name - Debra Deutsch. (My friends call me Debbie.) City, Country - Boston, USA Profession or Student status - Product Manager (telecommunications products). Company, School, or other affiliation - EG&H, Inc. My interest in the Fedora Project is strictly personal. My goals in the Fedora Project What do I want to write about? My primary interest is to write about topics that will help people who are comfortable with computer software and hardware but are not expert in Linux. That is how I see myself. These readers understand operating system principals, the functions of the hardware components in a computer system, and how the hardware and software work together. They may be willing to take on complex tasks that are not appropriate to a non-technical user. On the other hand, they may not have all the Linux-specific knowledge that some discussions of advanced topics assume. What other documentation do you want to see published? I have no suggestions now, but may have some after I gain experience with the project. Do you want to edit for grammar/writing and/or technical accuracy? I can edit for grammar if that would be useful. I would want some experience writing for the project before I offered to edit for style. As I am not an Linux expert, my ability to edit for technical accuracy is limited, but probably not zero. Anything else special? I would be happy to start by helping someone who has a large task, or by taking on very small tasks of my own. I would rather do a good, timely job on something small than a mediocre or late job on something too large or complex. I am new here. Historical qualifications What other projects or writing have you worked on in the past? I have never participated in an open source or similar large volunteer effort. However I have a great deal of paid experience working in large, geographically distributed groups to accomplish complex projects. For example, I have participated in technical standards committees and on product teams in large, multinational corporations. Even though I have never held a position as a technical writer, writing has always been an important part of my work. I have authored technical reports, standards documents, and all kinds of product collaterol. I have also been paid to write articles and a book chapter for publication. What level and type of computer skills do you have? I have been using computers for more than 30 years and have a good understanding of operating system and system architecture principles. I have worked as a software engineer. That was a long time ago; I am not qualified to write about development using modern Linux tools. (On the other hand, I probably would be a good choice to try out a HOWTO aimed at readers who were new to a tool.) In recent years I have used Windows as my primary computing environment in my workplace. At the same time, I have also been using Linux in more a limited way at home. Three years ago, I converted an old Windows system to Redhat 9.0, so I could run my own mail server for my domain. I am writing this email using a new system that I assembled from parts and a downloaded FC4 distribution. Other than using it as a file server, my plan is to make this system the administrative hub of my home computing environment. What other skills do you have that might be applicable? I am experienced at project management, inbound marketing, and outbound marketing. My inbound marketing experience has been primarily with requirements definition. My outbound marketing experience includes writing product collaterol, such as brochures, white papers, and specification sheets. I know a fair amount about data networking and the Internet. What makes you an excellent match for the project? I have had a great deal of fun with my Redhat and Fedora projects. I take on something complex and learn along the way. There is a fine sense of accomplishment when everything works. The project is an opportunity to share my enthusiasm with other people who are considering jumping into the Fedora pool. Perhaps I can help make it easier for them to swim when they do. GPG KEYID and fingerprint pub 1024D/73CD2969 2006-01-21 [expires: 2007-01-21] Key fingerprint = F668 0373 4BE5 737E 13F6 557F 16CC 9D70 73CD 2969 uid Debra Deutsch sub 2048g/E421BAD1 2006-01-21 [expires: 2007-01-21] -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: GnuPG v1.4.1 (GNU/Linux) Comment: Using GnuPG with Fedora - http://enigmail.mozdev.org iD8DBQFD0uqRFsydcHPNKWkRAob9AKDGj7DtNIe5m7GZPTi7NgRaXoiMFwCgkFtL edPqfHfLwY+dvBKTSUa+M7g= =36Yu -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- From stuart at elsn.org Sun Jan 22 11:35:42 2006 From: stuart at elsn.org (Stuart Ellis) Date: Sun, 22 Jan 2006 11:35:42 +0000 Subject: Self-Introduction: Debra Deutsch In-Reply-To: <43D2EA92.6090301@ddeutsch.org> References: <43D2EA92.6090301@ddeutsch.org> Message-ID: <1137929743.3030.13.camel@localhost.localdomain> On Sat, 2006-01-21 at 21:14 -0500, Debra Deutsch wrote: > What do I want to write about? My primary interest is to write about > topics that will help people who are comfortable with computer software > and hardware but are not expert in Linux. That is how I see myself. > These readers understand operating system principals, the functions of > the hardware components in a computer system, and how the hardware and > software work together. They may be willing to take on complex tasks > that are not appropriate to a non-technical user. On the other hand, > they may not have all the Linux-specific knowledge that some discussions > of advanced topics assume. Welcome to the project. This describes what I would like to do with the Administration Guide - provide a document that gives readers with some understanding of computers the confidence to manage Linux systems, by clearly explaining how the system works: http://www.fedoraproject.org/wiki/Docs/Drafts/AdministrationGuide You may also be interested in the Getting Started Guide, which is a more basic introduction for new users that Bob Jensen and Martin Brej are now developing: http://www.fedoraproject.org/wiki/Docs/Drafts/GettingStartedGuide Although the project uses a number of different tools, none are complex in themselves, so if you have a stronger interest in something we do not currently cover, feel free to propose it. We can step you through the document startup process fairly easily. -- Stuart Ellis stuart at elsn.org Fedora Documentation Project: http://fedora.redhat.com/projects/docs/ GPG key ID: 7098ABEA GPG key fingerprint: 68B0 E291 FB19 C845 E60E 9569 292E E365 7098 ABEA -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: signature.asc Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 189 bytes Desc: This is a digitally signed message part URL: From stuart at elsn.org Sun Jan 22 13:19:07 2006 From: stuart at elsn.org (Stuart Ellis) Date: Sun, 22 Jan 2006 13:19:07 +0000 Subject: Self-Introduction: Debra Deutsch In-Reply-To: <1137929743.3030.13.camel@localhost.localdomain> References: <43D2EA92.6090301@ddeutsch.org> <1137929743.3030.13.camel@localhost.localdomain> Message-ID: <1137935947.3030.17.camel@localhost.localdomain> On Sun, 2006-01-22 at 11:35 +0000, Stuart Ellis wrote: > On Sat, 2006-01-21 at 21:14 -0500, Debra Deutsch wrote: > > > What do I want to write about? My primary interest is to write about > > topics that will help people who are comfortable with computer software > > and hardware but are not expert in Linux. That is how I see myself. > > These readers understand operating system principals, the functions of > > the hardware components in a computer system, and how the hardware and > > software work together. They may be willing to take on complex tasks > > that are not appropriate to a non-technical user. On the other hand, > > they may not have all the Linux-specific knowledge that some discussions > > of advanced topics assume. > > Welcome to the project. > > This describes what I would like to do with the Administration Guide - > provide a document that gives readers with some understanding of > computers the confidence to manage Linux systems, by clearly explaining > how the system works: > > http://www.fedoraproject.org/wiki/Docs/Drafts/AdministrationGuide > > You may also be interested in the Getting Started Guide, which is a more > basic introduction for new users that Bob Jensen and Martin Brej are now > developing: > > http://www.fedoraproject.org/wiki/Docs/Drafts/GettingStartedGuide Too fast on the Send button... If you are interested in contributing to one of these (or starting your own document), the next step is to create a Wiki account: http://www.fedoraproject.org/wiki/Docs/WikiHelp/HowToGetEditPermissions -- Stuart Ellis stuart at elsn.org Fedora Documentation Project: http://fedora.redhat.com/projects/docs/ GPG key ID: 7098ABEA GPG key fingerprint: 68B0 E291 FB19 C845 E60E 9569 292E E365 7098 ABEA -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: signature.asc Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 189 bytes Desc: This is a digitally signed message part URL: From drn_temp2 at rogers.com Sun Jan 22 16:04:27 2006 From: drn_temp2 at rogers.com (David Niemi) Date: Sun, 22 Jan 2006 11:04:27 -0500 Subject: Self Introduction: David Niemi Message-ID: <1137945867.4109.49.camel@Jenny.daveshome> Name: David Niemi Ottawa, Ontario, Canada Profession: Working as Environmental Engineer and Manager Company: Environment Canada, only a personal interest in the project, no professional (work) involvement Goals in the Fedora Project: - In an editorial fashion contribute to the readability, comprehensibility, and interpretation of documentation for the newbie / average user of Fedora / Linux. - Offer suggestions for the enhancement of documentation - Assist in getting the docs out in as timely a fashion as possible. I know I am probably not the best person to lead the development of a document but feel that I am capable of contributing to it and at the same time learning more about OS, it's ins and outs. At this time there are too many possibilities for documents, though one that has been suggested on the Fedora list is a summarization of many of the more common problems and solutions that are posted. I can edit for writing and delve into things to determine technical accuracy and though Grammar has never been my forte, could contribute there. I would not be good at documents dealing with programing, scripting and the like. Historical qualifications: I have used Linux for the past 2 years though I first played around with it from 94 - 96 but didn't go very far. I Only have programming experience with Fortran and Visual dbase. I feel that I am quite generally adept with computers hhardware, software, and OS's and can usually figure out how to do most things though not afraid to ask for assistance when required. I have set up a small home network and experienced many of the issues with getting Fedora to talk with hardware. I have written documents and participated in the team development of many documents both published and unpublished while working at my current job. I do not keep a brag sheet of my documents and contributions, I don't even care really if my name appears on them, I just like to (and have to @ work) ensure that they are technically correct and lead to the proper interpretation of the information. I would be an excellent match for the project as while I have a low to moderate familiarity with Fedora and Linux I am still pretty new at other aspects and from this point would see things from a different angle from other highly knowledgeable people. I also lack some of the assumed knowledge that can be hidden behind a couple sentences. I enjoy contributing to the writing of documents, learning new and challenging things, love working with computers, and can visualize / sympathize the information gulf that this project is in the process of bridging. GPG KEYID and FingerPrint pub 1024D/42888171 2006-01-22 [expires: 2007-01-22] Key fingerprint = 3BAE CA31 FA00 FB60 8831 46AF 8274 9C1A 4288 8171 uid David Niemi (Dave) sub 1024g/89C30083 2006-01-22 [expires: 2007-01-22] -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: signature.asc Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 189 bytes Desc: This is a digitally signed message part URL: From stuart at elsn.org Sun Jan 22 16:49:21 2006 From: stuart at elsn.org (Stuart Ellis) Date: Sun, 22 Jan 2006 16:49:21 +0000 Subject: Self Introduction: David Niemi In-Reply-To: <1137945867.4109.49.camel@Jenny.daveshome> References: <1137945867.4109.49.camel@Jenny.daveshome> Message-ID: <1137948561.3030.36.camel@localhost.localdomain> On Sun, 2006-01-22 at 11:04 -0500, David Niemi wrote: > Name: David Niemi > Ottawa, Ontario, Canada > > Profession: Working as Environmental Engineer and Manager > > Company: Environment Canada, only a personal interest in the project, no > professional (work) involvement > > Goals in the Fedora Project: > - In an editorial fashion contribute to the readability, > comprehensibility, and interpretation of documentation for the newbie / > average user of Fedora / Linux. > - Offer suggestions for the enhancement of documentation > - Assist in getting the docs out in as timely a fashion as possible. > > I know I am probably not the best person to lead the development of a > document but feel that I am capable of contributing to it and at the > same time learning more about OS, it's ins and outs. Welcome to the project. One of the issues that we have as documenters is that we often know too much, and can forget about basics. There are two documents currently being developed specifically for new users that you could definitely contribute to: http://www.fedoraproject.org/wiki/Docs/Drafts/GettingStartedGuide (now being developed by Bob Jensen and Martin Brej) http://www.fedoraproject.org/wiki/Docs/Drafts/DesktopUserGuide (Chris Lennart and Scott Glaser) > At this time there > are too many possibilities for documents, though one that has been > suggested on the Fedora list is a summarization of many of the more > common problems and solutions that are posted. We also have a FAQ that may be included with releases, and would benefit from a review: http://www.fedoraproject.org/wiki/FAQ Writing with the Wiki is extremely simple to learn. This page explains how to get edit access: http://www.fedoraproject.org/wiki/Docs/WikiHelp/HowToGetEditPermissions And of course, the Bugzilla reports are also helpful in letting us know where we need to improve. -- Stuart Ellis stuart at elsn.org Fedora Documentation Project: http://fedora.redhat.com/projects/docs/ GPG key ID: 7098ABEA GPG key fingerprint: 68B0 E291 FB19 C845 E60E 9569 292E E365 7098 ABEA -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: signature.asc Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 189 bytes Desc: This is a digitally signed message part URL: From sundaram at redhat.com Sun Jan 22 16:53:34 2006 From: sundaram at redhat.com (Rahul Sundaram) Date: Sun, 22 Jan 2006 22:23:34 +0530 Subject: Self Introduction: David Niemi In-Reply-To: <1137948561.3030.36.camel@localhost.localdomain> References: <1137945867.4109.49.camel@Jenny.daveshome> <1137948561.3030.36.camel@localhost.localdomain> Message-ID: <43D3B88E.4070809@redhat.com> Hi > >Writing with the Wiki is extremely simple to learn. This page explains >how to get edit access: > >http://www.fedoraproject.org/wiki/Docs/WikiHelp/HowToGetEditPermissions > >And of course, the Bugzilla reports are also helpful in letting us know >where we need to improve. > > Please merge the above page with http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/WikiEditing which has been references throughout the wiki. We dont want duplicate content not in sync. Kindly search and ensure that the content you want to create is not already there *before* creating a new page. -- Rahul Fedora Bug Triaging - http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/BugZappers From stuart at elsn.org Sun Jan 22 17:05:00 2006 From: stuart at elsn.org (Stuart Ellis) Date: Sun, 22 Jan 2006 17:05:00 +0000 Subject: Self Introduction: David Niemi In-Reply-To: <43D3B88E.4070809@redhat.com> References: <1137945867.4109.49.camel@Jenny.daveshome> <1137948561.3030.36.camel@localhost.localdomain> <43D3B88E.4070809@redhat.com> Message-ID: <1137949500.3030.41.camel@localhost.localdomain> On Sun, 2006-01-22 at 22:23 +0530, Rahul Sundaram wrote: > Hi > > > > >Writing with the Wiki is extremely simple to learn. This page explains > >how to get edit access: > > > >http://www.fedoraproject.org/wiki/Docs/WikiHelp/HowToGetEditPermissions > > > >And of course, the Bugzilla reports are also helpful in letting us know > >where we need to improve. > > > > > Please merge the above page with > http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/WikiEditing which has been references > throughout the wiki. We dont want duplicate content not in sync. Kindly > search and ensure that the content you want to create is not already > there *before* creating a new page. Fair point, though wrong person - please refer to the Info for that page. -- Stuart Ellis stuart at elsn.org Fedora Documentation Project: http://fedora.redhat.com/projects/docs/ GPG key ID: 7098ABEA GPG key fingerprint: 68B0 E291 FB19 C845 E60E 9569 292E E365 7098 ABEA -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: signature.asc Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 189 bytes Desc: This is a digitally signed message part URL: From sundaram at redhat.com Sun Jan 22 17:08:09 2006 From: sundaram at redhat.com (Rahul Sundaram) Date: Sun, 22 Jan 2006 22:38:09 +0530 Subject: Self Introduction: David Niemi In-Reply-To: <1137949500.3030.41.camel@localhost.localdomain> References: <1137945867.4109.49.camel@Jenny.daveshome> <1137948561.3030.36.camel@localhost.localdomain> <43D3B88E.4070809@redhat.com> <1137949500.3030.41.camel@localhost.localdomain> Message-ID: <43D3BBF9.8040200@redhat.com> Stuart Ellis wrote: >On Sun, 2006-01-22 at 22:23 +0530, Rahul Sundaram wrote: > > >>Hi >> >> >> >>>Writing with the Wiki is extremely simple to learn. This page explains >>>how to get edit access: >>> >>>http://www.fedoraproject.org/wiki/Docs/WikiHelp/HowToGetEditPermissions >>> >>>And of course, the Bugzilla reports are also helpful in letting us know >>>where we need to improve. >>> >>> >>> >>> >>Please merge the above page with >>http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/WikiEditing which has been references >>throughout the wiki. We dont want duplicate content not in sync. Kindly >>search and ensure that the content you want to create is not already >>there *before* creating a new page. >> >> > >Fair point, though wrong person - please refer to the Info for that >page. > > I was informing not just you but the list itself since several people here work on the wiki pages. -- Rahul Fedora Bug Triaging - http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/BugZappers From fedoradocs at ddeutsch.org Mon Jan 23 14:45:06 2006 From: fedoradocs at ddeutsch.org (Debra Deutsch) Date: Mon, 23 Jan 2006 09:45:06 -0500 Subject: FW: Self-Introduction: Debra Deutsch In-Reply-To: <018001c62029$34816100$6501a8c0@DEBBIE> References: <018001c62029$34816100$6501a8c0@DEBBIE> Message-ID: <43D4EBF2.6080803@ddeutsch.org> -----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- Hash: SHA1 > > > On Sun, 2006-01-22 at 11:35 +0000, Stuart Ellis wrote: > >>On Sat, 2006-01-21 at 21:14 -0500, Debra Deutsch wrote: >> >> >>>What do I want to write about? My primary interest is to write about >>>topics that will help people who are comfortable with computer software >>>and hardware but are not expert in Linux. That is how I see myself. >>>These readers understand operating system principals, the functions of >>>the hardware components in a computer system, and how the hardware and >>>software work together. They may be willing to take on complex tasks >>>that are not appropriate to a non-technical user. On the other hand, >>>they may not have all the Linux-specific knowledge that some discussions >>>of advanced topics assume. >> >>Welcome to the project. >> >>This describes what I would like to do with the Administration Guide - >>provide a document that gives readers with some understanding of >>computers the confidence to manage Linux systems, by clearly explaining >>how the system works: >> >>http://www.fedoraproject.org/wiki/Docs/Drafts/AdministrationGuide >> >>You may also be interested in the Getting Started Guide, which is a more >>basic introduction for new users that Bob Jensen and Martin Brej are now >>developing: >> >>http://www.fedoraproject.org/wiki/Docs/Drafts/GettingStartedGuide > > > Too fast on the Send button... > > If you are interested in contributing to one of these (or starting your > own document), the next step is to create a Wiki account: > > http://www.fedoraproject.org/wiki/Docs/WikiHelp/HowToGetEditPermissions > > The Administration Guide sounds like a great place to start. I've registered for a Wiki account (DebraDeutsch). However please note that I have not yet sent back my signed license agreement. That should happen tonight. I need to double check that my agreement with my employer has no overlap with the project. It shouldn't, and I don't believe it does, but I'd prefer to be completely sure. Debbie -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: GnuPG v1.4.1 (GNU/Linux) Comment: Using GnuPG with Fedora - http://enigmail.mozdev.org iD8DBQFD1OvxFsydcHPNKWkRAlfiAJ0b684+TaaHG/kwuXszxo2FiAJnHACgozOS esLrS/oLLCluu2X26sIpmHU= =k4+c -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- From Tommy.Reynolds at MegaCoder.com Mon Jan 23 22:48:19 2006 From: Tommy.Reynolds at MegaCoder.com (Tommy Reynolds) Date: Mon, 23 Jan 2006 16:48:19 -0600 Subject: Adding rendered HTML to RPM packaging Message-ID: <20060123164819.f078a19d.Tommy.Reynolds@MegaCoder.com> Hello, All! Currently, the RPM packaging is geared to produce two types of RPM: 1) A .src.rpm whose content is somewhat similar to a CVS checkout; and 2) A .noarch.rpm whose content is targeted to the GNOME/KDE help infrastructure. Should we also include the rendered HTML files in the .noarch.rpm or should we have an additional version? Cheers -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 189 bytes Desc: not available URL: From stickster at gmail.com Mon Jan 23 23:26:33 2006 From: stickster at gmail.com (Paul W. Frields) Date: Mon, 23 Jan 2006 15:26:33 -0800 Subject: Adding rendered HTML to RPM packaging In-Reply-To: <20060123164819.f078a19d.Tommy.Reynolds@MegaCoder.com> References: <20060123164819.f078a19d.Tommy.Reynolds@MegaCoder.com> Message-ID: <1138058793.9122.4.camel@localhost.localdomain> On Mon, 2006-01-23 at 16:48 -0600, Tommy Reynolds wrote: > Hello, All! > > Currently, the RPM packaging is geared to produce two types of RPM: > > 1) A .src.rpm whose content is somewhat similar to a CVS checkout; and > > 2) A .noarch.rpm whose content is targeted to the GNOME/KDE help > infrastructure. > > Should we also include the rendered HTML files in the .noarch.rpm or > should we have an additional version? What's the use case for additional rendered HTML files? -- Paul W. Frields, RHCE http://paul.frields.org/ gpg fingerprint: 3DA6 A0AC 6D58 FEC4 0233 5906 ACDB C937 BD11 3717 Fedora Documentation Project: http://fedora.redhat.com/projects/docs/ -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: signature.asc Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 189 bytes Desc: This is a digitally signed message part URL: From fcdocs at fletchersweb.net Mon Jan 23 23:38:36 2006 From: fcdocs at fletchersweb.net (David Fletcher) Date: Mon, 23 Jan 2006 23:38:36 +0000 Subject: Identity theft attempt? Message-ID: <200601232338.46401.fcdocs@fletchersweb.net> I set up an email box specifically for use with this email list just a few days ago. I submitted some work to the list on Friday that I've not yet had a response to, but what puzzles me is that today I had a genuine email from paypal to the normal address that I set up for use with ebay and paypal, asking me to update my credit card details because it was about to expire. Also today to the address I set up for this list only, I received two fraudulent emails, claiming to be from paypal and Barclays, both also saying that my card details were about to expire, and both having http links in the email pointing to a server at 202.134.78.92. Has anybody else had any emails like this? I have not used this address anywhere but with the Documentation list. Dave Fletcher -- Registered Linux user number 393408 -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 189 bytes Desc: not available URL: From Tommy.Reynolds at MegaCoder.com Tue Jan 24 00:03:07 2006 From: Tommy.Reynolds at MegaCoder.com (Tommy Reynolds) Date: Mon, 23 Jan 2006 18:03:07 -0600 Subject: Adding rendered HTML to RPM packaging In-Reply-To: <1138058793.9122.4.camel@localhost.localdomain> References: <20060123164819.f078a19d.Tommy.Reynolds@MegaCoder.com> <1138058793.9122.4.camel@localhost.localdomain> Message-ID: <20060123180307.bb252e47.Tommy.Reynolds@MegaCoder.com> Uttered "Paul W. Frields" , spake thus: > > Should we also include the rendered HTML files in the .noarch.rpm or > > should we have an additional version? > What's the use case for additional rendered HTML files? "Seems A Shame To Waste Them"(tm) Cheers -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 189 bytes Desc: not available URL: From fajarpri at cbn.net.id Tue Jan 24 05:44:43 2006 From: fajarpri at cbn.net.id (Fajar Priyanto) Date: Tue, 24 Jan 2006 12:44:43 +0700 Subject: Identity theft attempt? In-Reply-To: <200601232338.46401.fcdocs@fletchersweb.net> References: <200601232338.46401.fcdocs@fletchersweb.net> Message-ID: <200601241244.43129.fajarpri@cbn.net.id> Looks like a Hongkong ISP. Maybe you can try to inform the hostmaster. ;; QUESTION SECTION: ;92.78.134.202.in-addr.arpa. IN PTR ;; ANSWER SECTION: 92.78.134.202.in-addr.arpa. 86400 IN PTR ip-92-78-134-202.rev.dyxnet.com. ;; AUTHORITY SECTION: 78.134.202.in-addr.arpa. 86400 IN NS ns1.diyixian.com. 78.134.202.in-addr.arpa. 86400 IN NS ns2.diyixian.com. ;; ADDITIONAL SECTION: ns1.diyixian.com. 149015 IN A 202.134.93.30 ns2.diyixian.com. 149015 IN A 202.134.64.3 On Tuesday 24 January 2006 06:38 am, David Fletcher wrote: > 202.134.78.92 -- Fajar Priyanto | Reg'd Linux User #327841 | Linux tutorial http://linux2.arinet.org 12:44:41 up 4:50, 2.6.14-1.1653_FC4 GNU/Linux Let's use OpenOffice. http://www.openoffice.org From nman64 at n-man.com Tue Jan 24 05:54:26 2006 From: nman64 at n-man.com (Patrick Barnes) Date: Mon, 23 Jan 2006 23:54:26 -0600 Subject: Identity theft attempt? In-Reply-To: <200601232338.46401.fcdocs@fletchersweb.net> References: <200601232338.46401.fcdocs@fletchersweb.net> Message-ID: <43D5C112.8030601@n-man.com> David Fletcher wrote: > I set up an email box specifically for use with this email list just a few > days ago. > > I submitted some work to the list on Friday that I've not yet had a response > to, but what puzzles me is that today I had a genuine email from paypal to > the normal address that I set up for use with ebay and paypal, asking me to > update my credit card details because it was about to expire. > > Also today to the address I set up for this list only, I received two > fraudulent emails, claiming to be from paypal and Barclays, both also saying > that my card details were about to expire, and both having http links in the > email pointing to a server at 202.134.78.92. > > Has anybody else had any emails like this? I have not used this address > anywhere but with the Documentation list. > > Dave Fletcher > > The arrival of the fraudulent emails and the legitimate email in the same day are purely coincidence. That kind of spoofed message is very common, and you can always safely discard them. As a precautionary measure, I generally recommend that people never use links from emails to visit ecommerce sites. In many clients, especially web-based ones, you cannot rely upon any part of the link details (in the status bar or elsewhere) to be accurate, as there are tricks to disguise the actual destination. If you have even an inkling that the message is fraudulent, you shouldn't even open it. It will never cause you a problem if you miss a legitimate email from eBay or PayPal, so you don't need to worry about missing a potentially legitimate one. You can always manually point your web browser to their respective sites to check in on your account if you feel the need. There are many, many ways that email harvesters can collect your addresses. It is likely that one of your past messages hit a public archive and the harvesters picked up the email from there. As far as the content of the message, this is also likely a coincidence, as that rouse is one of the more common techniques. I would only be concerned if the emails displayed some part of your actual card number. Think of it this way: if they already have your information, they don't need to trick you into giving it to them. ;-) If you have any other questions regarding online security or email fraud, let me know. -- Patrick "The N-Man" Barnes nman64 at n-man.com http://www.n-man.com/ -- Have I been helpful? Rate my assistance! http://rate.affero.net/nman64/ -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: signature.asc Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 189 bytes Desc: OpenPGP digital signature URL: From stickster at gmail.com Tue Jan 24 05:57:05 2006 From: stickster at gmail.com (Paul W. Frields) Date: Mon, 23 Jan 2006 21:57:05 -0800 Subject: Identity theft attempt? In-Reply-To: <200601232338.46401.fcdocs@fletchersweb.net> References: <200601232338.46401.fcdocs@fletchersweb.net> Message-ID: <1138082225.3049.8.camel@localhost.localdomain> On Mon, 2006-01-23 at 23:38 +0000, David Fletcher wrote: > I set up an email box specifically for use with this email list just a few > days ago. > > I submitted some work to the list on Friday that I've not yet had a response > to, but what puzzles me is that today I had a genuine email from paypal to > the normal address that I set up for use with ebay and paypal, asking me to > update my credit card details because it was about to expire. > > Also today to the address I set up for this list only, I received two > fraudulent emails, claiming to be from paypal and Barclays, both also saying > that my card details were about to expire, and both having http links in the > email pointing to a server at 202.134.78.92. > > Has anybody else had any emails like this? I have not used this address > anywhere but with the Documentation list. Your email address on this list isn't really private, since it's archived in plenty of public places. Some of them make an attempt to disguise or obscure your email address, and some don't. Many of those archival locations are frequently scanned by spammers to harvest new addresses, so it's no surprise you got unwanted email in that account. The only thing you can do is use a good spam filter. I find Gmail works well for this purpose; I get very little spam between Google's normal filters, plus the ones on my system. Good luck! -- Paul W. Frields, RHCE http://paul.frields.org/ gpg fingerprint: 3DA6 A0AC 6D58 FEC4 0233 5906 ACDB C937 BD11 3717 Fedora Documentation Project: http://fedora.redhat.com/projects/docs/ -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: signature.asc Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 189 bytes Desc: This is a digitally signed message part URL: From sundaram at redhat.com Tue Jan 24 17:05:26 2006 From: sundaram at redhat.com (Rahul Sundaram) Date: Tue, 24 Jan 2006 22:35:26 +0530 Subject: Burning iso files In-Reply-To: <200601202145.06480.fcdocs@fletchersweb.net> References: <200601192046.15391.fcdocs@fletchersweb.net> <43CFFB68.5070805@redhat.com> <200601202145.06480.fcdocs@fletchersweb.net> Message-ID: <43D65E56.1050404@redhat.com> David Fletcher wrote: >On Thursday 19 Jan 2006 20:49, Rahul Sundaram wrote: > > >>David Fletcher wrote: >> >> >>>There was a discussion on the Fedora list today, about how to help new >>>users make sure they create the installation CDs correctly. >>> >>>My suggestion, which seems to be viewed as being a good idea, is to place >>>a text file called READ_THIS_FIRST in the same folder as the iso files. >>>It would contain some very basic information about how the CD burning >>>process operates, and how to use the iso files. >>> >>>The objectives would be to make the first installation of Fedora Core less >>>frustrating for beginners, and reduce the wastage of blank CD-Rs. >>> >>>I am happy to spend some of my time doing a little typing to achieve these >>>objectives. >>> >>> >>Go ahead and send us the writeup. We might include it within the mirrors >>or atleast in the download section. >> >> > >Rahul, > >Here is my READ_THIS_FIRST file. Perhaps you good people would be kind enough >to peer review it and put it to good use? > Can you file this against infrastructure as a RFE in http://bugzilla.redhat.com? . We can clean it up and include this in the mirrors or the download page as appropriate. Thanks -- Rahul Fedora Bug Triaging - http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/BugZappers From kwade at redhat.com Tue Jan 24 21:20:52 2006 From: kwade at redhat.com (Karsten Wade) Date: Tue, 24 Jan 2006 13:20:52 -0800 Subject: Identity theft attempt? In-Reply-To: <200601232338.46401.fcdocs@fletchersweb.net> References: <200601232338.46401.fcdocs@fletchersweb.net> Message-ID: <1138137653.24274.499.camel@erato.phig.org> On Mon, 2006-01-23 at 23:38 +0000, David Fletcher wrote: > I set up an email box specifically for use with this email list just a few > days ago. > > I submitted some work to the list on Friday that I've not yet had a response > to, This is the one that puzzles me. :) You might have filtered out this reply? http://www.redhat.com/archives/fedora-docs-list/2006-January/msg00171.html In general it looks quite good. A few small passive -> active voice changes (changing "will happen" to "happens", for example). Dropping references to mp3s, etc. What Rahul suggests is good, the fedora-release maintainer needs to own the source of the document, and bring it to us for final clean-up. Thanks a million for carrying this need over from the fedora-list discussions/rest of the community. cheers - Karsten -- Karsten Wade, RHCE * Sr. Tech Writer * http://people.redhat.com/kwade/ gpg fingerprint: 2680 DBFD D968 3141 0115 5F1B D992 0E06 AD0E 0C41 Content Services Fedora Documentation Project http://www.redhat.com/docs http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/DocsProject -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: signature.asc Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 189 bytes Desc: This is a digitally signed message part URL: From kwade at redhat.com Tue Jan 24 21:23:24 2006 From: kwade at redhat.com (Karsten Wade) Date: Tue, 24 Jan 2006 13:23:24 -0800 Subject: Adding rendered HTML to RPM packaging In-Reply-To: <1138058793.9122.4.camel@localhost.localdomain> References: <20060123164819.f078a19d.Tommy.Reynolds@MegaCoder.com> <1138058793.9122.4.camel@localhost.localdomain> Message-ID: <1138137804.24274.503.camel@erato.phig.org> On Mon, 2006-01-23 at 15:26 -0800, Paul W. Frields wrote: > On Mon, 2006-01-23 at 16:48 -0600, Tommy Reynolds wrote: > > Hello, All! > > > > Currently, the RPM packaging is geared to produce two types of RPM: > > > > 1) A .src.rpm whose content is somewhat similar to a CVS checkout; and > > > > 2) A .noarch.rpm whose content is targeted to the GNOME/KDE help > > infrastructure. > > > > Should we also include the rendered HTML files in the .noarch.rpm or > > should we have an additional version? > > What's the use case for additional rendered HTML files? Local URIs to use via file:/// in Firefox. Maybe linked from the relnotes. I'd like to see there be a sort of envar $FEDORA_NEAREST_DOCS_URI that can be set for a user so that Firefox goes to this URI for documentation. That lets people get content locally when offline or behind a restrictive firewall. Or am I just weird? - Karsten -- Karsten Wade, RHCE * Sr. Tech Writer * http://people.redhat.com/kwade/ gpg fingerprint: 2680 DBFD D968 3141 0115 5F1B D992 0E06 AD0E 0C41 Content Services Fedora Documentation Project http://www.redhat.com/docs http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/DocsProject -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: signature.asc Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 189 bytes Desc: This is a digitally signed message part URL: From ghenry at suretecsystems.com Tue Jan 24 22:06:53 2006 From: ghenry at suretecsystems.com (Gavin Henry) Date: Tue, 24 Jan 2006 22:06:53 -0000 (GMT) Subject: Reference for XIncludes Message-ID: <43832.192.168.100.90.1138140413.squirrel@webmail.suretecsystems.com> Requested from todays FDSCO irc meeting: http://cvs.sourceforge.net/viewcvs.py/amanda/xml-docs/howto/ Specfically: http://cvs.sourceforge.net/viewcvs.py/amanda/xml-docs/howto/index.xml?view=markup Note the in the following: About Tapes and Changers Tape-Drives and Tape-Changers &A; is able to use a wide range of Tape-Drives and Tape-Changers. This section contains information on the concept of the tapetypes as well as information on how to make use of your tape-changer by using the appropriate changer-scripts. HOWTOs How to do this? This section contains some HOWTO-style-documents which should help you to get &A; up and going with Cygwin, AFS or chg-disk ... Various Information Additional information about &A; Here you find various other documents like the &A; FAQ, the Top Ten Questions and the &A;-Wishlist. You can also find the last &A;-Survey in here (although it still needs formatting ... sorry, Jon ...). The latest addition is the "famous" &A;-chapter by John R. Jackson. HTH. Gavin. -- Kind Regards, Gavin Henry. Managing Director. T +44 (0) 1224 279484 M +44 (0) 7930 323266 F +44 (0) 1224 742001 E ghenry at suretecsystems.com Open Source. Open Solutions(tm). http://www.suretecsystems.com/ From stuart at elsn.org Tue Jan 24 22:11:42 2006 From: stuart at elsn.org (Stuart Ellis) Date: Tue, 24 Jan 2006 22:11:42 +0000 Subject: Adding rendered HTML to RPM packaging In-Reply-To: <1138137804.24274.503.camel@erato.phig.org> References: <20060123164819.f078a19d.Tommy.Reynolds@MegaCoder.com> <1138058793.9122.4.camel@localhost.localdomain> <1138137804.24274.503.camel@erato.phig.org> Message-ID: <1138140702.2855.27.camel@localhost.localdomain> On Tue, 2006-01-24 at 13:23 -0800, Karsten Wade wrote: > On Mon, 2006-01-23 at 15:26 -0800, Paul W. Frields wrote: > > On Mon, 2006-01-23 at 16:48 -0600, Tommy Reynolds wrote: > > > Hello, All! > > > > > > Currently, the RPM packaging is geared to produce two types of RPM: > > > > > > 1) A .src.rpm whose content is somewhat similar to a CVS checkout; and > > > > > > 2) A .noarch.rpm whose content is targeted to the GNOME/KDE help > > > infrastructure. > > > > > > Should we also include the rendered HTML files in the .noarch.rpm or > > > should we have an additional version? > > > > What's the use case for additional rendered HTML files? > > Local URIs to use via file:/// in Firefox. Maybe linked from the > relnotes. It may also be useful for headless servers - the httpd-manual package might be a useful model for this. > I'd like to see there be a sort of envar $FEDORA_NEAREST_DOCS_URI that > can be set for a user so that Firefox goes to this URI for > documentation. That lets people get content locally when offline or > behind a restrictive firewall. > > Or am I just weird? No - that sounds like a nice touch. Perhaps just $NEAREST_DOCS_URI, so that it's obvious that site admins can use it to specify custom document sites. -- Stuart Ellis stuart at elsn.org Fedora Documentation Project: http://fedora.redhat.com/projects/docs/ GPG key ID: 7098ABEA GPG key fingerprint: 68B0 E291 FB19 C845 E60E 9569 292E E365 7098 ABEA -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: signature.asc Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 189 bytes Desc: This is a digitally signed message part URL: From kwade at redhat.com Tue Jan 24 22:13:29 2006 From: kwade at redhat.com (Karsten Wade) Date: Tue, 24 Jan 2006 14:13:29 -0800 Subject: Welcome In-Reply-To: <2f9fcf9c0601210943y53b86802yf42a97f5daa6c8de@mail.gmail.com> References: <20060114065826.98e1f048.Tommy.Reynolds@MegaCoder.com> <1137585607.2194.32.camel@sudip-vp-a2.hclcomnet.local> <43CE34BF.90905@redhat.com> <1137615103.30084.43.camel@localhost.localdomain> <1137669105.5145.29.camel@sudip-vp-a2.hclcomnet.local> <1137676619.30084.167.camel@localhost.localdomain> <1137678261.6236.35.camel@sudip-vp-a2.hclcomnet.local> <43CFE7D8.70401@n-man.com> <2f9fcf9c0601200940w563d3522n456a3c59ed0a64d9@mail.gmail.com> <43D2020E.3070704@redhat.com> <2f9fcf9c0601210943y53b86802yf42a97f5daa6c8de@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <1138140810.24274.510.camel@erato.phig.org> On Sat, 2006-01-21 at 23:13 +0530, Sameer Niphadkar wrote: > > See a list of drafts and ideas available at > > http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Docs/Drafts > > > This is interesting, I'll have a closer look at System Tap and would > come up with my observations. FYI, there is an internal (Red Hat) writer assigned to SystemTap (and Frysk). One of us will make an announcement with more details as it's coming, in the meantime you can expect a potential content project coming on this subject. - Karsten -- Karsten Wade, RHCE * Sr. Tech Writer * http://people.redhat.com/kwade/ gpg fingerprint: 2680 DBFD D968 3141 0115 5F1B D992 0E06 AD0E 0C41 Content Services Fedora Documentation Project http://www.redhat.com/docs http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/DocsProject -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: signature.asc Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 189 bytes Desc: This is a digitally signed message part URL: From kwade at redhat.com Tue Jan 24 22:42:24 2006 From: kwade at redhat.com (Karsten Wade) Date: Tue, 24 Jan 2006 14:42:24 -0800 Subject: Reference for XIncludes In-Reply-To: <43832.192.168.100.90.1138140413.squirrel@webmail.suretecsystems.com> References: <43832.192.168.100.90.1138140413.squirrel@webmail.suretecsystems.com> Message-ID: <1138142544.24274.528.camel@erato.phig.org> On Tue, 2006-01-24 at 22:06 +0000, Gavin Henry wrote: > Requested from todays FDSCO irc meeting: Thanks. We want to try using XIncludes for pulling in XML that is output from the Wiki into the release-notes. That way the Wiki content is canonical, the XML it outputs is really a built object that we pull into the release-notes XML structure. Boo-ya! - Karsten > http://cvs.sourceforge.net/viewcvs.py/amanda/xml-docs/howto/ > > Specfically: > > http://cvs.sourceforge.net/viewcvs.py/amanda/xml-docs/howto/index.xml?view=markup > > Note the in the following: > > > > About Tapes and Changers > > Tape-Drives and Tape-Changers > > &A; is able to use a wide range of Tape-Drives and Tape-Changers. This > section contains > information on the concept of the tapetypes as well as information on how > to make use of > your tape-changer by using the appropriate changer-scripts. > > > > > > > > > > > HOWTOs > > How to do this? > > This section contains some HOWTO-style-documents which should help you to > get &A; up and going with Cygwin, > AFS or chg-disk ... > > > > > > > > > > > Various Information > > Additional information about &A; > > Here you find various other documents like the &A; FAQ, the Top Ten > Questions and the &A;-Wishlist. > You can also find the last &A;-Survey in here (although it still needs > formatting ... sorry, Jon ...). > The latest addition is the "famous" &A;-chapter by John R. Jackson. > > > > > > > > > > HTH. > > Gavin. > > -- > Kind Regards, > > Gavin Henry. > Managing Director. > > T +44 (0) 1224 279484 > M +44 (0) 7930 323266 > F +44 (0) 1224 742001 > E ghenry at suretecsystems.com > > Open Source. Open Solutions(tm). > > http://www.suretecsystems.com/ > > -- Karsten Wade, RHCE * Sr. Tech Writer * http://people.redhat.com/kwade/ gpg fingerprint: 2680 DBFD D968 3141 0115 5F1B D992 0E06 AD0E 0C41 Content Services Fedora Documentation Project http://www.redhat.com/docs http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/DocsProject -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: signature.asc Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 189 bytes Desc: This is a digitally signed message part URL: From stuart at elsn.org Tue Jan 24 22:43:30 2006 From: stuart at elsn.org (Stuart Ellis) Date: Tue, 24 Jan 2006 22:43:30 +0000 Subject: Minutes of FDSCo Meeting 24 January 2006 Message-ID: <1138142610.2855.39.camel@localhost.localdomain> Attending Members: ------------------ Karsten Wade (quaid) Tommy Reynolds (megacoder) Paul Frields (stickster) Gavin Henry (G2) Stuart Ellis (elliss) Also Participating: ------------------- Bob Jensen (BobJensen) Schedule of Tasks: ------------------ http://www.fedoraproject.org/wiki/DocsProject/FedoraDocsSchedule Highlights: ----------- * Karsten: A process is being developed to enable automatic transcription from the Wiki to the DocBook format. The Release Notes for FC5 test3 will be used to test and develop the facility, with XIncludes to compile the individual sections into the complete document. * Karsten: Initial discussions have begun on transferring the Translation infrastructure to the main Fedora CVS. * Karsten: To begin a Wiki page on the OPL (Open Publication License) as a license for Fedora documentation. The OPL without options provides the same freedoms as open source software licenses - the content may be freely distributed and modified, provided that the original authors are acknowledged. Full IRC Log: ------------- https://www.redhat.com/archives/fedora-dsco-list/2006-January/msg00006.html -- Stuart Ellis stuart at elsn.org Fedora Documentation Project: http://fedora.redhat.com/projects/docs/ GPG key ID: 7098ABEA GPG key fingerprint: 68B0 E291 FB19 C845 E60E 9569 292E E365 7098 ABEA -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: signature.asc Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 189 bytes Desc: This is a digitally signed message part URL: From hugo at devin.com.br Wed Jan 25 04:08:11 2006 From: hugo at devin.com.br (Hugo Cisneiros) Date: Wed, 25 Jan 2006 02:08:11 -0200 Subject: Docbook XML to PDF convertion Message-ID: <43D6F9AB.9010209@devin.com.br> Hi, I was indicated to this list, so here I am :) Last year I began working on a 'book', explaining many things to the Linux world for newbies and somewhat advanced users. At that time, I choose to use the Fedora Documentation style because I liked the way it works and presents itself (it is pretty ;) The book now has more than 100 pages, and it is in portuguese. I always use the Fedora's Documentation Guide as reference, so the 7253-line XML is nice and validates very well on building HTML pages (chunks and no-chunks). Since I'll release the book freely, I will need a PDF version for distribuition, since many people will like to print it. The Documentation Guide says that PDF generation is somewhat broken :( Still I'm building the pdf format well, but somethings are just broken: like lists (itemizedList, orderedList, etc), tables (really messed up), the "commands" box, and such are not showing pretty like in the html version. Is there any way to fix these issues? I want to keep this book in this format (Fedora's XML Docbook) since I liked and is much convenient. In the other way, I need the PDF "pretty" version too :( Some tips? Advices? Tutorials on changing and customizing the xsl stylesheets? :) If anyone wants to see the PDF version, I uploaded to: http://www.devin.com.br/eitch/tlm4/tlm4.0-pt_BR.pdf Any help apreciated! Thanks :) -- []'s Eitch http://www.devin.com.br/eitch/ "Talk is cheap. Show me the code." - Linus Torvalds From Tommy.Reynolds at MegaCoder.com Wed Jan 25 05:20:23 2006 From: Tommy.Reynolds at MegaCoder.com (Tommy Reynolds) Date: Tue, 24 Jan 2006 23:20:23 -0600 Subject: Docbook XML to PDF convertion In-Reply-To: <43D6F9AB.9010209@devin.com.br> References: <43D6F9AB.9010209@devin.com.br> Message-ID: <20060124232023.8ac0a49a.Tommy.Reynolds@MegaCoder.com> Uttered Hugo Cisneiros , spake thus: > I was indicated to this list, so here I am :) Welcome! > Since I'll release the book freely, I will need a PDF version for > distribuition, since many people will like to print it. The > Documentation Guide says that PDF generation is somewhat broken :( Yes, PDF production is broken in at least two ways. The first is the easier to correct. The stylesheets used for the PDF generation need much care and feeding. Largely been ignored because of item #2: The passivetex back-end we use for PDF generation is obsolete and simply not up to the task for anything much more than some small documents. Passivetex isn't maintained anymore, so there is bit rot as well. Using Apache FOP for PDF rendering is currently our best bet, but it needs some non-free components, such as graphics rendering, so FOP in its current state isn't an option for FDP. The situation may change but that's how it is now. That being said, the stable FOP version 0.20-5 does a decent job as does the last CVS version I checked, 0.90alpha1 IIRC. You could download either of those from the FOP site and give them a try. I've had FOP 0.20-5 break (abort, crash, dump, announce bogus errors) on large documents such as yours: it's rather unpredictable whether it will or won't -- you'll just have to try it. Interfacing FOP into the FDP build system is easy. I've updated the XMLTO package to use FOP instead of passivetex. Those patches have not been accepted upstream, largely because FOP isn't in the Fedora distribution: look to jpackage.org for that. If you want to try installing FOP yourself and working with a non-standard setup go ahead. I have my own patched XMLTO packages on my ftp://ftp.megacoder.com/pub site. It isn't a clean solution yet, but if you are willing to invest the time, you could then play with correcting the stylesheet rendering if you are interested. > Some tips? Advices? Tutorials on changing and customizing the xsl > stylesheets? :) Customizing the XSL stylesheets can be deep magic. If you have a basic understanding of XSL, then I'd suggest modification by experimentation. Just turn the knob and see what it adjusts. Keep your customizations to the file "docs-common/xsl/main-pdf.xsl", or to a file directly imported from there. The deeper an file is nested, the less precedence it has and in the event of conflicting settings the one with the greater precedence wins. Still game? -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 189 bytes Desc: not available URL: From Tommy.Reynolds at MegaCoder.com Wed Jan 25 06:16:27 2006 From: Tommy.Reynolds at MegaCoder.com (Tommy Reynolds) Date: Wed, 25 Jan 2006 00:16:27 -0600 Subject: Reference for XIncludes In-Reply-To: <43832.192.168.100.90.1138140413.squirrel@webmail.suretecsystems.com> References: <43832.192.168.100.90.1138140413.squirrel@webmail.suretecsystems.com> Message-ID: <20060125001627.ea6791d5.Tommy.Reynolds@MegaCoder.com> Uttered "Gavin Henry" , spake thus: > Specfically: > http://cvs.sourceforge.net/viewcvs.py/amanda/xml-docs/howto/index.xml?view=markup If I read the signs aright, the http://www.w3.org/2003/XInclude namespace has been depreciated in favor of the http://www.w3.org/2001/XInclude namespace. Is that correct? -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 189 bytes Desc: not available URL: From aalam at redhat.com Wed Jan 25 11:33:11 2006 From: aalam at redhat.com (A S Alam) Date: Wed, 25 Jan 2006 17:03:11 +0530 Subject: Translation guide In-Reply-To: <1137693478.24274.189.camel@erato.phig.org> References: <1137632710.4045.45.camel@dhcp-118.brisbane.redhat.com> <1137693478.24274.189.camel@erato.phig.org> Message-ID: <43D761F7.9000304@redhat.com> Karsten Wade ?? ?????: > On Thu, 2006-01-19 at 11:05 +1000, Manuel Ospina wrote: > >> Dear Chester and Aman, >> >> I have added a "Translation Quick Start Guide" to the repository (I >> should have reported to the fedora-docs-list before adding it... sorry >> about it). Anyway, though the guide is still a draft, it contains the >> essential information about how to translate software and documentation >> for the Fedora project. I believe it would be useful if we can include >> it in the L10N wiki page < http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/L10N/ > . >> > > We offer a chance for peer review, which is the best reason for telling > folks about your document > > >> Aman, Chester, as you are the maintainers of the Fedora Localization >> Project I would need your assistance to export the XML file to the wiki >> (I believe making the html file is not enough). >> > > I do not recommend moving content from XML to the Wiki. The Wiki serves > best for short documentation that is undergoing rapid change, and for > collaboration on draft or in-process documentation. > > We are working on exposing the XML through the Wiki, so that the Wiki is > an editor, but this is not ready yet. Our goal for _all_ documentation > is to be in XML living in CVS. The Wiki is a step in the direction of > that goal. Once you have a document in XML, it is a step backward to > move it to the Wiki. > > I recommend that you: > > 1. Build the document, assuming you used Fedora Docs tools 'make html' > should do fine. > > 2. Post the document to http://fedora.redhat.com/docs/quickstart- > translation-guide. > > The latter step is where snowlet or aalam can help best. The folks on > #fedora-websites can help with the permissions and process for posting > the document. > > - Karsten > hi Manuel, Quick start guide for Translation is on web now. http://fedora.redhat.com/docs/translation-quick-start-guide/ http://fedoraproject.org/L10N/ will be update soon thanks Karsten for kind help. regards -- A S Alam Punjabi (Gurmukhi) Maintainer "Either find a way or make one" From galbotrix007 at gmail.com Wed Jan 25 14:35:21 2006 From: galbotrix007 at gmail.com (Sameer Niphadkar) Date: Wed, 25 Jan 2006 20:05:21 +0530 Subject: Welcome In-Reply-To: <1138140810.24274.510.camel@erato.phig.org> References: <20060114065826.98e1f048.Tommy.Reynolds@MegaCoder.com> <1137615103.30084.43.camel@localhost.localdomain> <1137669105.5145.29.camel@sudip-vp-a2.hclcomnet.local> <1137676619.30084.167.camel@localhost.localdomain> <1137678261.6236.35.camel@sudip-vp-a2.hclcomnet.local> <43CFE7D8.70401@n-man.com> <2f9fcf9c0601200940w563d3522n456a3c59ed0a64d9@mail.gmail.com> <43D2020E.3070704@redhat.com> <2f9fcf9c0601210943y53b86802yf42a97f5daa6c8de@mail.gmail.com> <1138140810.24274.510.camel@erato.phig.org> Message-ID: <2f9fcf9c0601250635h75f9f9eejd3eca0536cf5b68b@mail.gmail.com> > FYI, there is an internal (Red Hat) writer assigned to SystemTap (and > Frysk). One of us will make an announcement with more details as it's > coming, in the meantime you can expect a potential content project > coming on this subject. hmm..I can expect that, but I was just wondering a comparative survey between DProbes, Dtrace and SystemTap would be great. Also would like to know, if KProbes play a role and the language used for system probing. As per my knowledge Sun has a well defined structured kernel tracing language and a volumnous amount of research is being done in this area. If you have any other details regarding language development of SystemTap then please do let me know. Thanks rgds Sameer From hugo at devin.com.br Wed Jan 25 14:12:38 2006 From: hugo at devin.com.br (Hugo Cisneiros) Date: Wed, 25 Jan 2006 12:12:38 -0200 Subject: Docbook XML to PDF convertion In-Reply-To: <20060124232023.8ac0a49a.Tommy.Reynolds@MegaCoder.com> References: <43D6F9AB.9010209@devin.com.br> <20060124232023.8ac0a49a.Tommy.Reynolds@MegaCoder.com> Message-ID: <43D78756.9060107@devin.com.br> Tommy Reynolds wrote: >>Since I'll release the book freely, I will need a PDF version for >>distribuition, since many people will like to print it. The >>Documentation Guide says that PDF generation is somewhat broken :( > > Yes, PDF production is broken in at least two ways. > > The first is the easier to correct. The stylesheets used for the PDF > generation need much care and feeding. Largely been ignored because > of item #2: > > The passivetex back-end we use for PDF generation is obsolete and > simply not up to the task for anything much more than some small > documents. Passivetex isn't maintained anymore, so there is bit rot > as well. Other than FOP, is there other alternativa? I have looked in the Docbook page, and found this list: http://sagehill.net/docbookxsl/FOprocessors.html The most of them are commercial, but I noted the free 'xmlroff'. Do you know it? I don't :) > Using Apache FOP for PDF rendering is currently our best bet, but it > needs some non-free components, such as graphics rendering, so FOP in > its current state isn't an option for FDP. The situation may change but > that's how it is now. I'll begin to test with your package. Right now I can't because here at work I only have internet access throught a proxy, and it appears that the program is trying to access something while I "make pdf": === [ERROR] property - "background-position-horizontal" is not implemented yet. [ERROR] property - "background-position-vertical" is not implemented yet. Error creating background image: Error while recovering Image Informations (http://docbook.sourceforge.net/release/images/draft.png) : null [ERROR] property - "background-position-horizontal" is not implemented yet. [ERROR] property - "background-position-vertical" is not implemented yet. Error creating background image: Error while recovering Image Informations (http://docbook.sourceforge.net/release/images/draft.png) : null (infinite loop...) === So when at home I'll try again. Right now I'm trying to study how the xsl stylesheets work and trying to get things fixed in the current method :( >>Some tips? Advices? Tutorials on changing and customizing the xsl >>stylesheets? :) > > Customizing the XSL stylesheets can be deep magic. If you have a > basic understanding of XSL, then I'd suggest modification by > experimentation. Just turn the knob and see what it adjusts. Studying and doing that :) > Keep your customizations to the file "docs-common/xsl/main-pdf.xsl", > or to a file directly imported from there. The deeper an file is > nested, the less precedence it has and in the event of conflicting > settings the one with the greater precedence wins. > > Still game? Well since I need to do it, I'm going to try hard on that. Thanks for the tips! -- []'s Eitch http://www.devin.com.br/eitch/ "Talk is cheap. Show me the code." - Linus Torvalds From Tommy.Reynolds at MegaCoder.com Wed Jan 25 16:04:51 2006 From: Tommy.Reynolds at MegaCoder.com (Tommy Reynolds) Date: Wed, 25 Jan 2006 10:04:51 -0600 Subject: Docbook XML to PDF convertion In-Reply-To: <43D78756.9060107@devin.com.br> References: <43D6F9AB.9010209@devin.com.br> <20060124232023.8ac0a49a.Tommy.Reynolds@MegaCoder.com> <43D78756.9060107@devin.com.br> Message-ID: <20060125100451.d70eaeb3.Tommy.Reynolds@MegaCoder.com> Uttered Hugo Cisneiros , spake thus: > The most of them are commercial, but I noted the free 'xmlroff'. Do you > know it? I don't :) The "xmlroff" tool shows promise, but last time I checked it wasn't ready for prime time. I can't get the current CVS version to build on my FC4 system. Personally, I got good results with RenderX's XEP tool. Although a commercial product, you can get a free home version. FDP can't use it because it is not open source even with the free home license, but you may like it. HTH -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 189 bytes Desc: not available URL: From sundaram at redhat.com Wed Jan 25 17:10:44 2006 From: sundaram at redhat.com (Rahul Sundaram) Date: Wed, 25 Jan 2006 22:40:44 +0530 Subject: Welcome In-Reply-To: <2f9fcf9c0601250635h75f9f9eejd3eca0536cf5b68b@mail.gmail.com> References: <20060114065826.98e1f048.Tommy.Reynolds@MegaCoder.com> <1137615103.30084.43.camel@localhost.localdomain> <1137669105.5145.29.camel@sudip-vp-a2.hclcomnet.local> <1137676619.30084.167.camel@localhost.localdomain> <1137678261.6236.35.camel@sudip-vp-a2.hclcomnet.local> <43CFE7D8.70401@n-man.com> <2f9fcf9c0601200940w563d3522n456a3c59ed0a64d9@mail.gmail.com> <43D2020E.3070704@redhat.com> <2f9fcf9c0601210943y53b86802yf42a97f5daa6c8de@mail.gmail.com> <1138140810.24274.510.camel@erato.phig.org> <2f9fcf9c0601250635h75f9f9eejd3eca0536cf5b68b@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <43D7B114.7050907@redhat.com> Sameer Niphadkar wrote: >>FYI, there is an internal (Red Hat) writer assigned to SystemTap (and >>Frysk). One of us will make an announcement with more details as it's >>coming, in the meantime you can expect a potential content project >>coming on this subject. >> >> > >hmm..I can expect that, but I was just wondering a comparative survey >between DProbes, Dtrace and SystemTap would be great. Also would like >to know, if KProbes play a role and the language used for system >probing. > > Kprobes is the underlying mechanism. SystemTap builds on it. See the whitepaper in http://sourceware.org/systemtap/ -- Rahul Fedora Bug Triaging - http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/BugZappers From steven.pierce at gmail.com Fri Jan 27 18:17:39 2006 From: steven.pierce at gmail.com (Steven Pierce) Date: Fri, 27 Jan 2006 10:17:39 -0800 Subject: Self-Introduction: Steven Pierce Message-ID: <6e0cf1cc0601271017r55aeeb87y56d24fc57adfa762@mail.gmail.com> 1. Steven Pierce - Huntington Beach USA (Pacific Time Zone) - Currently working for the Dept. Of homeland Security (TSA) Also have a second job doing consulting for a small company here in Huntington Beach - See above - Your goals in the Fedora Project - What do you want to write about? I am very open to this topic. I am trying to learn more about linux. I am currently in the process of trying to set up a web, mail, dns server so that I can expand my skill set. - What other documentation do you want to see published? None currently, but I have done a couple of FAQ for my employers (Past / Present) - Do you want to edit for grammar/writing and/or technical accuracy? I would be open to either. grammer / writing is how I discovered the project Thanx to Paul Fields. - Anything else special? - Historical qualifications - What other projects or writing have you worked on in the past? I have done a master's thesis and a couple FAQ's. - What level and type of computer skills do you have? I am not a novice, but I am not guru either. I put my skills in the more advanced level. I can set up most types of machine, I have built my own machines. I have set up a couple of servers with RH 9. - What other skills do you have that might be applicable? User interface design, other so-called soft skills (people skills), programming, etc. I have a fair amount of people skills, I have done tech support for a long time. I am currently learning more about HTML / CSS. I am hoping to take a couple java script classes in the future. - What makes you an excellent match for the project? My willingness to learn. -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From stickster at gmail.com Fri Jan 27 18:31:42 2006 From: stickster at gmail.com (Paul W. Frields) Date: Fri, 27 Jan 2006 10:31:42 -0800 Subject: Self-Introduction: Steven Pierce In-Reply-To: <6e0cf1cc0601271017r55aeeb87y56d24fc57adfa762@mail.gmail.com> References: <6e0cf1cc0601271017r55aeeb87y56d24fc57adfa762@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <1138386703.15336.15.camel@localhost.localdomain> Thanks for your self-intro Steven! To try and make it easier and more pleasant for you to get started, it would be great to get a sense of how you like to set your direction. Do you prefer (1) having someone assign tasks to you and give you direction as needed for your to complete those tasks, or (2) finding your way yourself, and diving in where you feel you're most interested? -- Paul W. Frields, RHCE http://paul.frields.org/ gpg fingerprint: 3DA6 A0AC 6D58 FEC4 0233 5906 ACDB C937 BD11 3717 Fedora Documentation Project: http://fedora.redhat.com/projects/docs/ -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: signature.asc Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 189 bytes Desc: This is a digitally signed message part URL: From steven.pierce at gmail.com Fri Jan 27 19:00:50 2006 From: steven.pierce at gmail.com (Steven Pierce) Date: Fri, 27 Jan 2006 11:00:50 -0800 Subject: Self-Introduction: Steven Pierce In-Reply-To: <1138386703.15336.15.camel@localhost.localdomain> References: <6e0cf1cc0601271017r55aeeb87y56d24fc57adfa762@mail.gmail.com> <1138386703.15336.15.camel@localhost.localdomain> Message-ID: <6e0cf1cc0601271100g57de2a62y167ac43d1a7faf72@mail.gmail.com> On 1/27/06, Paul W. Frields wrote: > > Thanks for your self-intro Steven! To try and make it easier and more > pleasant for you to get started, it would be great to get a sense of how > you like to set your direction. Do you prefer (1) having someone assign > tasks to you and give you direction as needed for your to complete those > tasks, or (2) finding your way yourself, and diving in where you feel > you're most interested? > > Paul, I think that at first it would be better if someone would give me specific task to do. That way I will get a feel for what is going on. Once I get a better understanding of is needed, then maybe I will try to go out on my own some and start getting things done as I see they are needed. I am trying to generate my GPG code for the list. Since I am currently on a win32 box, it is not as easy as for linux. (Well it does not appear that way). Looks like I will need to finish this in the morning, I am getting ready to run to work. Thank you again for the help. Steven -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From kwade at redhat.com Sat Jan 28 05:39:12 2006 From: kwade at redhat.com (Karsten Wade) Date: Fri, 27 Jan 2006 21:39:12 -0800 Subject: Self Introduction: David Niemi In-Reply-To: <1137945867.4109.49.camel@Jenny.daveshome> References: <1137945867.4109.49.camel@Jenny.daveshome> Message-ID: <1138426752.5151.217.camel@erato.phig.org> On Sun, 2006-01-22 at 11:04 -0500, David Niemi wrote: > Name: David Niemi David, thanks for the self-intro. Hopefully it's a nice way to get to know each other, and you can find all of the self-introductions on this page so you can get to know who we all are, too: http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/DocsProject/Contributors To help you get started in FDP, please let us know how you would like to set your direction. Do you prefer: 1. Someone assigns you tasks on a project? 2. You look around and find your way to something that interests you? Thanks, and welcome. - Karsten -- Karsten Wade, RHCE * Sr. Tech Writer * http://people.redhat.com/kwade/ gpg fingerprint: 2680 DBFD D968 3141 0115 5F1B D992 0E06 AD0E 0C41 Content Services Fedora Documentation Project http://www.redhat.com/docs http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/DocsProject -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: signature.asc Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 189 bytes Desc: This is a digitally signed message part URL: From kwade at redhat.com Sat Jan 28 05:42:39 2006 From: kwade at redhat.com (Karsten Wade) Date: Fri, 27 Jan 2006 21:42:39 -0800 Subject: Self-Introduction: Steven Pierce In-Reply-To: <6e0cf1cc0601271100g57de2a62y167ac43d1a7faf72@mail.gmail.com> References: <6e0cf1cc0601271017r55aeeb87y56d24fc57adfa762@mail.gmail.com> <1138386703.15336.15.camel@localhost.localdomain> <6e0cf1cc0601271100g57de2a62y167ac43d1a7faf72@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <1138426959.5151.221.camel@erato.phig.org> On Fri, 2006-01-27 at 11:00 -0800, Steven Pierce wrote: > I think that at first it would be better if someone would give me > specific task > to do. I'm not sure if Paul has something in particular in mind for you, so I'll wait to see what he suggests ... for a few days, at least. :) > I am trying to generate my GPG code for the list. Since I am > currently on a win32 > box, it is not as easy as for linux. (Well it does not appear that > way). I wonder if not having regular access to a Fedora box to test and document is a barrier? It would be nice to offer contributors a VNC session to a Fedora desktop running on a remote server. It would make enforcing system norms and screenshot standards easier if we could set the defaults and distribute them as sessions. - Karsten -- Karsten Wade, RHCE * Sr. Tech Writer * http://people.redhat.com/kwade/ gpg fingerprint: 2680 DBFD D968 3141 0115 5F1B D992 0E06 AD0E 0C41 Content Services Fedora Documentation Project http://www.redhat.com/docs http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/DocsProject -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: signature.asc Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 189 bytes Desc: This is a digitally signed message part URL: From steven.pierce at gmail.com Sat Jan 28 07:43:42 2006 From: steven.pierce at gmail.com (Steven Pierce) Date: Fri, 27 Jan 2006 23:43:42 -0800 Subject: Self-Introduction: Steven Pierce In-Reply-To: <1138426959.5151.221.camel@erato.phig.org> References: <6e0cf1cc0601271017r55aeeb87y56d24fc57adfa762@mail.gmail.com> <1138386703.15336.15.camel@localhost.localdomain> <6e0cf1cc0601271100g57de2a62y167ac43d1a7faf72@mail.gmail.com> <1138426959.5151.221.camel@erato.phig.org> Message-ID: <6e0cf1cc0601272343y635524dl2eba23796f5c76b@mail.gmail.com> Question, since I have never done a GPG code before what kind of pharse should I use?? Can it be something like "my wifes name is Erin?" Or does it need to be something more, like: "I live in Orange County calif and I am expecting my first child in Sept" Thank you for any that can be provided. Steven On 1/27/06, Karsten Wade wrote: > > On Fri, 2006-01-27 at 11:00 -0800, Steven Pierce wrote: > > > I think that at first it would be better if someone would give me > > specific task > > to do. > > I'm not sure if Paul has something in particular in mind for you, so > I'll wait to see what he suggests ... for a few days, at least. :) > > > I am trying to generate my GPG code for the list. Since I am > > currently on a win32 > > box, it is not as easy as for linux. (Well it does not appear that > > way). > > I wonder if not having regular access to a Fedora box to test and > document is a barrier? > > It would be nice to offer contributors a VNC session to a Fedora desktop > running on a remote server. It would make enforcing system norms and > screenshot standards easier if we could set the defaults and distribute > them as sessions. > > - Karsten > -- > Karsten Wade, RHCE * Sr. Tech Writer * http://people.redhat.com/kwade/ > gpg fingerprint: 2680 DBFD D968 3141 0115 5F1B D992 0E06 AD0E 0C41 > Content Services Fedora Documentation Project > http://www.redhat.com/docs http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/DocsProject > > > -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- > Version: GnuPG v1.4.1 (GNU/Linux) > > iD8DBQBD2wRP2ZIOBq0ODEERAnSUAJwIgjH4vaz4uU2c34yauFI2RVGYdACgnCRb > +bCq/bar8gc6aEtVqTt4XyY= > =rEml > -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- > > > -- > fedora-docs-list mailing list > fedora-docs-list at redhat.com > To unsubscribe: > https://www.redhat.com/mailman/listinfo/fedora-docs-list > > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From stuart at elsn.org Sat Jan 28 12:25:48 2006 From: stuart at elsn.org (Stuart Ellis) Date: Sat, 28 Jan 2006 12:25:48 +0000 Subject: Self-Introduction: Steven Pierce In-Reply-To: <1138426959.5151.221.camel@erato.phig.org> References: <6e0cf1cc0601271017r55aeeb87y56d24fc57adfa762@mail.gmail.com> <1138386703.15336.15.camel@localhost.localdomain> <6e0cf1cc0601271100g57de2a62y167ac43d1a7faf72@mail.gmail.com> <1138426959.5151.221.camel@erato.phig.org> Message-ID: <1138451148.2834.48.camel@localhost.localdomain> On Fri, 2006-01-27 at 21:42 -0800, Karsten Wade wrote: > It would be nice to offer contributors a VNC session to a Fedora desktop > running on a remote server. It would make enforcing system norms and > screenshot standards easier if we could set the defaults and distribute > them as sessions. FWIW, I rented a VNC-accessible Red Hat 8 desktop from Workspot a few years ago. They dealt with the security issue by patching VNC to use SSL, and most aspects of the service worked pretty well. The issue at the time was latency - even on high-bandwidth connections it was slightly too laggy to comfortably run applications on the remote desktop. I haven't tried VNC across the Internet since then - current software might perform much better. The Workspot site is still there: http://www.workspot.com/ -- Stuart Ellis stuart at elsn.org Fedora Documentation Project: http://fedora.redhat.com/projects/docs/ GPG key ID: 7098ABEA GPG key fingerprint: 68B0 E291 FB19 C845 E60E 9569 292E E365 7098 ABEA -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: signature.asc Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 189 bytes Desc: This is a digitally signed message part URL: From galbotrix007 at gmail.com Sat Jan 28 13:24:09 2006 From: galbotrix007 at gmail.com (Sameer Niphadkar) Date: Sat, 28 Jan 2006 18:54:09 +0530 Subject: Self Introduction: David Niemi In-Reply-To: <1138426752.5151.217.camel@erato.phig.org> References: <1137945867.4109.49.camel@Jenny.daveshome> <1138426752.5151.217.camel@erato.phig.org> Message-ID: <2f9fcf9c0601280524v165b138bv6cb4fe7f404b4f84@mail.gmail.com> On 1/28/06, Karsten Wade wrote: > On Sun, 2006-01-22 at 11:04 -0500, David Niemi wrote: > > Name: David Niemi > > David, thanks for the self-intro. Hopefully it's a nice way to get to > know each other, and you can find all of the self-introductions on this > page so you can get to know who we all are, too: > > http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/DocsProject/Contributors > > To help you get started in FDP, please let us know how you would like to > set your direction. Do you prefer: > > 1. Someone assigns you tasks on a project? > 2. You look around and find your way to something that interests you? > > Thanks, and welcome. > > - Karsten > -- Hi, It looks like my name is not mentioned in the list of volunteers. I guessed the fact was that I had introduced myself on a wrong thread. Nevertheless do I need to re-introduce myself to qualify as a volunteer ? rgds Sameer From sundaram at redhat.com Sat Jan 28 13:29:57 2006 From: sundaram at redhat.com (Rahul Sundaram) Date: Sat, 28 Jan 2006 18:59:57 +0530 Subject: Self Introduction: David Niemi In-Reply-To: <2f9fcf9c0601280524v165b138bv6cb4fe7f404b4f84@mail.gmail.com> References: <1137945867.4109.49.camel@Jenny.daveshome> <1138426752.5151.217.camel@erato.phig.org> <2f9fcf9c0601280524v165b138bv6cb4fe7f404b4f84@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <43DB71D5.9060901@redhat.com> Hi > >Hi, > >It looks like my name is not mentioned in the list of volunteers. I >guessed the fact was that I had introduced myself on a wrong thread. >Nevertheless do I need to re-introduce myself to qualify as a >volunteer ? > > > Just seems to have been left out due to the thread mismatch. I have added you now to the list. -- Rahul Fedora Bug Triaging - http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/BugZappers From wmirror at gmail.com Sat Jan 28 14:04:23 2006 From: wmirror at gmail.com (Francesco Ugolini) Date: Sat, 28 Jan 2006 15:04:23 +0100 Subject: I introduce myself Message-ID: My name is Francesco Ugolini, i'm an Italian Fedora Ambassador (on probing) and i have decided to help the Fedora Community to export the power of this system everywhere. I've seen that many documents are only in english so my first task were to traduce the FC4 install guide in italian. This is the reason i've joined to this group to talk about my progress and to be connected with other translator. Currently i've traduced the begginig, first chapter (in .txt format not in xml, but i'm working on) and the chapter 7 (in .xml). See ya Francesco Ugolini From Tommy.Reynolds at MegaCoder.com Sat Jan 28 17:10:04 2006 From: Tommy.Reynolds at MegaCoder.com (Tommy Reynolds) Date: Sat, 28 Jan 2006 11:10:04 -0600 Subject: Self-Introduction: Steven Pierce In-Reply-To: <6e0cf1cc0601272343y635524dl2eba23796f5c76b@mail.gmail.com> References: <6e0cf1cc0601271017r55aeeb87y56d24fc57adfa762@mail.gmail.com> <1138386703.15336.15.camel@localhost.localdomain> <6e0cf1cc0601271100g57de2a62y167ac43d1a7faf72@mail.gmail.com> <1138426959.5151.221.camel@erato.phig.org> <6e0cf1cc0601272343y635524dl2eba23796f5c76b@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <20060128111004.3eaabbf6.Tommy.Reynolds@MegaCoder.com> Uttered Steven Pierce , spake thus: > Question, since I have never done a GPG code before what kind of pharse > should I use?? Can it be something like "my wifes name is Erin?" Or does it > need to be something more, like: > "I live in Orange County calif and I am expecting my first child in Sept" > Thank you for any that can be provided. Either. "baloney baffles brains" makes a good one, too. Or a couple of words with unexpected punctuation "star!lite". Or an intentional mispelling like "red haytte". With a random key with at least 36^N-1 choices for an N-character passphrase, almost anything more than a simple dictionary word is peachy keen. HTH From steven.pierce at gmail.com Sat Jan 28 18:05:19 2006 From: steven.pierce at gmail.com (Steven Pierce) Date: Sat, 28 Jan 2006 10:05:19 -0800 Subject: Self-Introduction: Steven Pierce In-Reply-To: <20060128111004.3eaabbf6.Tommy.Reynolds@MegaCoder.com> References: <6e0cf1cc0601271017r55aeeb87y56d24fc57adfa762@mail.gmail.com> <1138386703.15336.15.camel@localhost.localdomain> <6e0cf1cc0601271100g57de2a62y167ac43d1a7faf72@mail.gmail.com> <1138426959.5151.221.camel@erato.phig.org> <6e0cf1cc0601272343y635524dl2eba23796f5c76b@mail.gmail.com> <20060128111004.3eaabbf6.Tommy.Reynolds@MegaCoder.com> Message-ID: <6e0cf1cc0601281005o4fdffe93pe112bcb3fb340ce@mail.gmail.com> OK.. I have done the part that generates the key. I was following the part of sending the key to the key server. Using this command (web site instruction) gpg --keyserver pgp.mit.edu --send-keys GPGKEYID The error that I got was: gpg: "GPGKEYID" not a key ID: skipping. What did I do wrong?? Steven On 1/28/06, Tommy Reynolds wrote: > > Uttered Steven Pierce , spake thus: > > > Question, since I have never done a GPG code before what kind of pharse > > should I use?? Can it be something like "my wifes name is Erin?" Or > does it > > need to be something more, like: > > "I live in Orange County calif and I am expecting my first child in > Sept" > > Thank you for any that can be provided. > > Either. "baloney baffles brains" makes a good one, too. Or a couple > of words with unexpected punctuation "star!lite". Or an intentional > mispelling like "red haytte". > > With a random key with at least 36^N-1 choices for an N-character > passphrase, almost anything more than a simple dictionary word is > peachy keen. > > HTH > > -- > fedora-docs-list mailing list > fedora-docs-list at redhat.com > To unsubscribe: > https://www.redhat.com/mailman/listinfo/fedora-docs-list > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From steven.pierce at gmail.com Sat Jan 28 18:10:35 2006 From: steven.pierce at gmail.com (Steven Pierce) Date: Sat, 28 Jan 2006 10:10:35 -0800 Subject: Self-Introduction: Steven Pierce In-Reply-To: <6e0cf1cc0601281005o4fdffe93pe112bcb3fb340ce@mail.gmail.com> References: <6e0cf1cc0601271017r55aeeb87y56d24fc57adfa762@mail.gmail.com> <1138386703.15336.15.camel@localhost.localdomain> <6e0cf1cc0601271100g57de2a62y167ac43d1a7faf72@mail.gmail.com> <1138426959.5151.221.camel@erato.phig.org> <6e0cf1cc0601272343y635524dl2eba23796f5c76b@mail.gmail.com> <20060128111004.3eaabbf6.Tommy.Reynolds@MegaCoder.com> <6e0cf1cc0601281005o4fdffe93pe112bcb3fb340ce@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <6e0cf1cc0601281010q5d4411bbp99f57645978282cf@mail.gmail.com> NEVER mind.. I see what I did... Sorry for the noise... On 1/28/06, Steven Pierce wrote: > > OK.. I have done the part that generates the key. I was following the > part of sending > the key to the key server. Using this command (web site instruction) > gpg --keyserver pgp.mit.edu --send-keys GPGKEYID > > The error that I got was: gpg: "GPGKEYID" not a key ID: skipping. > > What did I do wrong?? > > Steven > > > > On 1/28/06, Tommy Reynolds wrote: > > > > Uttered Steven Pierce , spake thus: > > > > > Question, since I have never done a GPG code before what kind of > > pharse > > > should I use?? Can it be something like "my wifes name is Erin?" Or > > does it > > > need to be something more, like: > > > "I live in Orange County calif and I am expecting my first child in > > Sept" > > > Thank you for any that can be provided. > > > > Either. "baloney baffles brains" makes a good one, too. Or a couple > > of words with unexpected punctuation "star!lite". Or an intentional > > mispelling like "red haytte". > > > > With a random key with at least 36^N-1 choices for an N-character > > passphrase, almost anything more than a simple dictionary word is > > peachy keen. > > > > HTH > > > > -- > > fedora-docs-list mailing list > > fedora-docs-list at redhat.com > > To unsubscribe: > > https://www.redhat.com/mailman/listinfo/fedora-docs-list > > > > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From kwade at redhat.com Sun Jan 29 09:08:51 2006 From: kwade at redhat.com (Karsten Wade) Date: Sun, 29 Jan 2006 01:08:51 -0800 Subject: Self Introduction: David Niemi In-Reply-To: <43DB71D5.9060901@redhat.com> References: <1137945867.4109.49.camel@Jenny.daveshome> <1138426752.5151.217.camel@erato.phig.org> <2f9fcf9c0601280524v165b138bv6cb4fe7f404b4f84@mail.gmail.com> <43DB71D5.9060901@redhat.com> Message-ID: <1138525731.5151.241.camel@erato.phig.org> On Sat, 2006-01-28 at 18:59 +0530, Rahul Sundaram wrote: > Hi > > > > >Hi, > > > >It looks like my name is not mentioned in the list of volunteers. I > >guessed the fact was that I had introduced myself on a wrong thread. > >Nevertheless do I need to re-introduce myself to qualify as a > >volunteer ? > > > > > > > Just seems to have been left out due to the thread mismatch. I have > added you now to the list. Exactly, thanks. I just went through the archives, searching Subjects for "self" and "intro". :) cheers - Karsten -- Karsten Wade, RHCE * Sr. Tech Writer * http://people.redhat.com/kwade/ gpg fingerprint: 2680 DBFD D968 3141 0115 5F1B D992 0E06 AD0E 0C41 Content Services Fedora Documentation Project http://www.redhat.com/docs http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/DocsProject -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: signature.asc Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 189 bytes Desc: This is a digitally signed message part URL: From stickster at gmail.com Sun Jan 29 21:56:26 2006 From: stickster at gmail.com (Paul W. Frields) Date: Sun, 29 Jan 2006 16:56:26 -0500 Subject: docs-common/bin db2rpm-info,1.4,1.5 In-Reply-To: <200601291538.k0TFcsr3030668@cvs-int.fedora.redhat.com> References: <200601291538.k0TFcsr3030668@cvs-int.fedora.redhat.com> Message-ID: <1138571786.17699.34.camel@localhost.localdomain> On Sun, 2006-01-29 at 10:38 -0500, Tommy Reynolds wrote: > Log Message: > Allow *any* modern shell. [...snip...] > Index: db2rpm-info > =================================================================== > RCS file: /cvs/docs/docs-common/bin/db2rpm-info,v > retrieving revision 1.4 > retrieving revision 1.5 > diff -u -r1.4 -r1.5 > --- db2rpm-info 28 Jan 2006 20:41:45 -0000 1.4 > +++ db2rpm-info 29 Jan 2006 15:38:45 -0000 1.5 > @@ -1,6 +1,6 @@ > -#!/bin/bash > -ME=$(basename $0) > -BINDIR=$(dirname $0) > +#!/bin/sh > +ME=`basename $0` > +BINDIR=`dirname $0` > USAGE="usage: ${ME} [-o ofile] document.xml" > ofile= > while getopts o: c > @@ -10,7 +10,7 @@ > *) echo "${USAGE}" >&2; exit 1;; > esac > done > -shift $(expr ${OPTIND} - 1) > +shift `expr ${OPTIND} - 1` > if [ $# -ne 1 ]; then > echo "${USAGE}" >&2 > exit 1 Even better, thanks Tommy! -- Paul W. Frields, RHCE http://paul.frields.org/ gpg fingerprint: 3DA6 A0AC 6D58 FEC4 0233 5906 ACDB C937 BD11 3717 Fedora Documentation Project: http://fedora.redhat.com/projects/docs/ -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: signature.asc Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 189 bytes Desc: This is a digitally signed message part URL: From kwade at redhat.com Sun Jan 29 22:46:39 2006 From: kwade at redhat.com (Karsten Wade) Date: Sun, 29 Jan 2006 14:46:39 -0800 Subject: relnotes beat freeze - FC5 test3 - 08:00 UTC 30 Jan 2006 Message-ID: <1138574799.5151.245.camel@erato.phig.org> Release notes beats are freezing for translation at 08:00 UTC 30 Jan 2006. We're going to scramble to convert the content into XML for translation by Monday evening. Please get all your changes in before then. - Karsten -- Karsten Wade, RHCE * Sr. Tech Writer * http://people.redhat.com/kwade/ gpg fingerprint: 2680 DBFD D968 3141 0115 5F1B D992 0E06 AD0E 0C41 Content Services Fedora Documentation Project http://www.redhat.com/docs http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/DocsProject -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: signature.asc Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 189 bytes Desc: This is a digitally signed message part URL: From kwade at redhat.com Sun Jan 29 23:44:36 2006 From: kwade at redhat.com (Karsten Wade) Date: Sun, 29 Jan 2006 15:44:36 -0800 Subject: Reference for XIncludes In-Reply-To: <20060125001627.ea6791d5.Tommy.Reynolds@MegaCoder.com> References: <43832.192.168.100.90.1138140413.squirrel@webmail.suretecsystems.com> <20060125001627.ea6791d5.Tommy.Reynolds@MegaCoder.com> Message-ID: <1138578276.5151.261.camel@erato.phig.org> On Wed, 2006-01-25 at 00:16 -0600, Tommy Reynolds wrote: > Uttered "Gavin Henry" , spake thus: > > > Specfically: > > http://cvs.sourceforge.net/viewcvs.py/amanda/xml-docs/howto/index.xml?view=markup > > If I read the signs aright, the > > http://www.w3.org/2003/XInclude > > namespace has been depreciated in favor of the > > http://www.w3.org/2001/XInclude > > namespace. > > Is that correct? That is how I read it from this page: http://www.sagehill.net/docbookxsl/ModularDoc.html Look for the first "Note": "In one of the draft XInclude standards, the namespace URI was changed to use 2003 instead of 2001 in the name, but it was changed back to 2001 for the final standard. Some XInclude processors may not have caught the change. For example Xerces version 2.6.2 expects the XInclude namespace to use the incorrect 2003 value." -- Karsten Wade, RHCE * Sr. Tech Writer * http://people.redhat.com/kwade/ gpg fingerprint: 2680 DBFD D968 3141 0115 5F1B D992 0E06 AD0E 0C41 Content Services Fedora Documentation Project http://www.redhat.com/docs http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/DocsProject -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: signature.asc Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 189 bytes Desc: This is a digitally signed message part URL: From Tommy.Reynolds at MegaCoder.com Mon Jan 30 00:22:08 2006 From: Tommy.Reynolds at MegaCoder.com (Tommy Reynolds) Date: Sun, 29 Jan 2006 18:22:08 -0600 Subject: Reference for XIncludes In-Reply-To: <1138578276.5151.261.camel@erato.phig.org> References: <43832.192.168.100.90.1138140413.squirrel@webmail.suretecsystems.com> <20060125001627.ea6791d5.Tommy.Reynolds@MegaCoder.com> <1138578276.5151.261.camel@erato.phig.org> Message-ID: <20060129182208.0ccecd5f.Tommy.Reynolds@MegaCoder.com> Uttered Karsten Wade , spake thus: > > If I read the signs aright, the > > http://www.w3.org/2003/XInclude > > namespace has been depreciated in favor of the > > http://www.w3.org/2001/XInclude > > namespace. > > Is that correct? > That is how I read it from this page: > http://www.sagehill.net/docbookxsl/ModularDoc.html Gack. A real case of YMMV, I guess. It's a pity that the DocBook DTD won't let you put the xmlns:xi="..." declaration just anywhere. Requiring that whole declaration every time is clumsy. Oh, well, these things happen. Cheers From kwade at redhat.com Mon Jan 30 00:23:54 2006 From: kwade at redhat.com (Karsten Wade) Date: Sun, 29 Jan 2006 16:23:54 -0800 Subject: beat writers need to sync content from XML to Wiki Message-ID: <1138580634.5151.265.camel@erato.phig.org> There is content in the XML release notes that is not in the Wiki. Please take a few minutes and find your content in the HTML output and pull it into your beat page: http://fedora.redhat.com/docs/release-notes/fc5/test2-latest-en/ The Wiki is going to be canonical source for the relnotes, hopefully starting tomorrow. We'll continue to pull XML into CVS, tag, build, and ship, but the writing source is going to be the Wiki. - Karsten -- Karsten Wade, RHCE * Sr. Tech Writer * http://people.redhat.com/kwade/ gpg fingerprint: 2680 DBFD D968 3141 0115 5F1B D992 0E06 AD0E 0C41 Content Services Fedora Documentation Project http://www.redhat.com/docs http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/DocsProject -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: signature.asc Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 189 bytes Desc: This is a digitally signed message part URL: From kwade at redhat.com Mon Jan 30 00:40:16 2006 From: kwade at redhat.com (Karsten Wade) Date: Sun, 29 Jan 2006 16:40:16 -0800 Subject: ready to move languages to sub-folders Message-ID: <1138581616.5151.271.camel@erato.phig.org> Ok, I give. The module is getting full. I think we have at least through FC5 using the current translation system. This means all actions occurring in cvs.fedora:/cvs/docs/release-notes. Tommy or Paul, can we work up moving the individual languages to their own sub-dirs? release-notes/*-en.xml /it/*-it.xml /ja_JP/*-ja_JP.xml /pa/*-pa.xml /ru/*-ru.xml /zh_CN/*-zh_CN.xml ... If we can do this ASAP, it can happen before the translators 'cvs up' for the test3 content freeze. Otherwise, we can wait a few weeks and work it up for FC5 proper. thx - Karsten -- Karsten Wade, RHCE * Sr. Tech Writer * http://people.redhat.com/kwade/ gpg fingerprint: 2680 DBFD D968 3141 0115 5F1B D992 0E06 AD0E 0C41 Content Services Fedora Documentation Project http://www.redhat.com/docs http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/DocsProject -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: signature.asc Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 189 bytes Desc: This is a digitally signed message part URL: From kwade at redhat.com Mon Jan 30 15:08:41 2006 From: kwade at redhat.com (Karsten Wade) Date: Mon, 30 Jan 2006 07:08:41 -0800 Subject: Reference for XIncludes In-Reply-To: <20060129182208.0ccecd5f.Tommy.Reynolds@MegaCoder.com> References: <43832.192.168.100.90.1138140413.squirrel@webmail.suretecsystems.com> <20060125001627.ea6791d5.Tommy.Reynolds@MegaCoder.com> <1138578276.5151.261.camel@erato.phig.org> <20060129182208.0ccecd5f.Tommy.Reynolds@MegaCoder.com> Message-ID: <1138633722.5151.300.camel@erato.phig.org> On Sun, 2006-01-29 at 18:22 -0600, Tommy Reynolds wrote: > Uttered Karsten Wade , spake thus: > > > > If I read the signs aright, the > > > http://www.w3.org/2003/XInclude > > > namespace has been depreciated in favor of the > > > http://www.w3.org/2001/XInclude > > > namespace. > > > Is that correct? > > That is how I read it from this page: > > http://www.sagehill.net/docbookxsl/ModularDoc.html > > Gack. A real case of YMMV, I guess. > > It's a pity that the DocBook DTD won't let you put the xmlns:xi="..." > declaration just anywhere. Requiring that whole href="..." xmlns:xi="..."/> declaration every time is clumsy. > > Oh, well, these things happen. Not only that, but ... doesn't this make it impossible to validate or build the document when unable to reach that URI? We might make it a policy of using a copy of the 2001/XInclude within docs-common/common. I don't see a local copy of it within Fedora. - Karsten -- Karsten Wade, RHCE * Sr. Tech Writer * http://people.redhat.com/kwade/ gpg fingerprint: 2680 DBFD D968 3141 0115 5F1B D992 0E06 AD0E 0C41 Content Services Fedora Documentation Project http://www.redhat.com/docs http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/DocsProject -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: signature.asc Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 189 bytes Desc: This is a digitally signed message part URL: From Tommy.Reynolds at MegaCoder.com Mon Jan 30 16:08:42 2006 From: Tommy.Reynolds at MegaCoder.com (Tommy Reynolds) Date: Mon, 30 Jan 2006 10:08:42 -0600 Subject: Reference for XIncludes In-Reply-To: <1138633722.5151.300.camel@erato.phig.org> References: <43832.192.168.100.90.1138140413.squirrel@webmail.suretecsystems.com> <20060125001627.ea6791d5.Tommy.Reynolds@MegaCoder.com> <1138578276.5151.261.camel@erato.phig.org> <20060129182208.0ccecd5f.Tommy.Reynolds@MegaCoder.com> <1138633722.5151.300.camel@erato.phig.org> Message-ID: <20060130100842.eed72046.Tommy.Reynolds@MegaCoder.com> Uttered Karsten Wade , spake thus: > > Oh, well, these things happen. > We might make it a policy of using a copy of the 2001/XInclude within > docs-common/common. I don't see a local copy of it within Fedora. Neither do I. The file is quite small and stable, so we could get a private copy. OK, I've done that. Now I'll play around to see how we can use that file. Cheers From stickster at gmail.com Mon Jan 30 18:32:12 2006 From: stickster at gmail.com (Paul W. Frields) Date: Mon, 30 Jan 2006 13:32:12 -0500 Subject: docs-common Makefile.common,1.34,1.35 In-Reply-To: <200601301031.k0UAVvQQ008392@cvs-int.fedora.redhat.com> References: <200601301031.k0UAVvQQ008392@cvs-int.fedora.redhat.com> Message-ID: <1138645932.10384.8.camel@localhost.localdomain> On Mon, 2006-01-30 at 05:31 -0500, Tommy Reynolds wrote: > Author: jtr > > Update of /cvs/docs/docs-common > In directory cvs-int.fedora.redhat.com:/tmp/cvs-serv8374 > > Modified Files: > Makefile.common > Log Message: > When using find(1) to generate the list of candidate files for the > tarball, do not expand the filenames onto the command line, using > "find *" because a filename with an embedded '#" will bork the > remainder of the command line, seriously breaking the build process. > Thanks again, Emacs! Keep in mind CVS is also responsible for some of this filename cruft, since it moves locally modified copies to ".#filename.N.N" (actually, all of it, for those of us who use Emacs' auto-save-file-name-p function)! ;-) -- Paul W. Frields, RHCE http://paul.frields.org/ gpg fingerprint: 3DA6 A0AC 6D58 FEC4 0233 5906 ACDB C937 BD11 3717 Fedora Documentation Project: http://fedora.redhat.com/projects/docs/ -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: signature.asc Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 189 bytes Desc: This is a digitally signed message part URL: From Tommy.Reynolds at MegaCoder.com Mon Jan 30 18:46:44 2006 From: Tommy.Reynolds at MegaCoder.com (Tommy Reynolds) Date: Mon, 30 Jan 2006 12:46:44 -0600 Subject: docs-common Makefile.common,1.34,1.35 In-Reply-To: <1138645932.10384.8.camel@localhost.localdomain> References: <200601301031.k0UAVvQQ008392@cvs-int.fedora.redhat.com> <1138645932.10384.8.camel@localhost.localdomain> Message-ID: <20060130124644.e9aa38ca.Tommy.Reynolds@MegaCoder.com> Uttered "Paul W. Frields" , spake thus: > > Thanks again, Emacs! > Keep in mind CVS is also responsible for some of this filename cruft, > since it moves locally modified copies to ".#filename.N.N" (actually, > all of it, for those of us who use Emacs' auto-save-file-name-p > function)! ;-) Yeah, bad influences tend to spread. Apples and barrels, ya know ;-) OK, fun's over. I hope. From fedoradocs at ddeutsch.org Tue Jan 31 04:57:37 2006 From: fedoradocs at ddeutsch.org (Debra Deutsch) Date: Mon, 30 Jan 2006 23:57:37 -0500 Subject: Feedback request Message-ID: <43DEEE41.809@ddeutsch.org> -----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- Hash: SHA1 It's been suggested that a good beginner task for me would be to proofread and edit the FAQ and related pages (http://www.fedoraproject.org/wiki/FAQ). I am happy to take that on. I've read the pages about writing using the wiki and wiki editing. It's left me with the impression that perhaps the FAQ should be broken into pages instead of being one long page. What do people think of this potential change? Is there a standard way to lay out a multi-page FAQ? I am imagining that the table of contents would be one page. Each of the six main topics would also become a page. I have some business travel coming up that probably will keep me from doing any editing until the weekend. I would very much appreciate people's comments and advice in the meantime. Thanks, Debbie -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: GnuPG v1.4.1 (GNU/Linux) Comment: Using GnuPG with Fedora - http://enigmail.mozdev.org iD8DBQFD3u5BFsydcHPNKWkRAgfEAJ4koT2en6R4wjObS6pljWm3RLSIzwCdGhrp wKCR2sNiOynMMDJIJaz4uNk= =rfQg -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- From kwade at redhat.com Tue Jan 31 06:01:47 2006 From: kwade at redhat.com (Karsten Wade) Date: Mon, 30 Jan 2006 22:01:47 -0800 Subject: Feedback request In-Reply-To: <43DEEE41.809@ddeutsch.org> References: <43DEEE41.809@ddeutsch.org> Message-ID: <1138687307.5151.359.camel@erato.phig.org> On Mon, 2006-01-30 at 23:57 -0500, Debra Deutsch wrote: > -----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- > Hash: SHA1 > > It's been suggested that a good beginner task for me would be to > proofread and edit the FAQ and related pages > (http://www.fedoraproject.org/wiki/FAQ). I am happy to take that on. > I've read the pages about writing using the wiki and wiki editing. It's > left me with the impression that perhaps the FAQ should be broken into > pages instead of being one long page. It changes some of the dynamics. It makes it easier to collaborate, e.g., one person can write FAQ/UsingFedora whilst the other edits FAQ/HelpandSupport. > What do people think of this potential change? Is there a standard way > to lay out a multi-page FAQ? I am imagining that the table of contents > would be one page. Each of the six main topics would also become a page. You might want to take a look at how the release notes beats are aggregated here: http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Docs/Beats You'll note that it does *not* use a [[Table of Contents]], instead relying upon he manual list at the top. That list lets us link directly to the sub-pages that are [[Include()]]'d below. Having all the content appear on one single page is a very different experience from having to travel to separate pages. Besides, I think you have to pull them in with [[Include()]] in order for the [[Table of Contents]] macro to work. There are other things we can think about, such as defining a standard for wiki formatting choices for content such as: - commands - filenames/paths - command line options - content from within a text file (such as a configuration file) - etc. I'm running across these inconsistencies with Docs/Beats/ right now. :) - Karsten -- Karsten Wade, RHCE * Sr. Tech Writer * http://people.redhat.com/kwade/ gpg fingerprint: 2680 DBFD D968 3141 0115 5F1B D992 0E06 AD0E 0C41 Content Services Fedora Documentation Project http://www.redhat.com/docs http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/DocsProject -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: signature.asc Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 189 bytes Desc: This is a digitally signed message part URL: From rostetter at mail.utexas.edu Tue Jan 31 16:30:24 2006 From: rostetter at mail.utexas.edu (Eric Rostetter) Date: Tue, 31 Jan 2006 10:30:24 -0600 Subject: Feedback request In-Reply-To: <43DEEE41.809@ddeutsch.org> References: <43DEEE41.809@ddeutsch.org> Message-ID: <20060131103024.jk1nu3758u0wogk4@mail.ph.utexas.edu> Quoting Debra Deutsch : > I've read the pages about writing using the wiki and wiki editing. It's > left me with the impression that perhaps the FAQ should be broken into > pages instead of being one long page. All the sites I've done, I've always generated the FAQ as both a single monolithic FAQ and a paged version. Let the user pick which they want. Most users want a monolithic version for printing, handouts, etc. Most users like to be able to go to a specific page in the docs easily when searching for quick information (ala google, etc). -- Eric Rostetter The Department of Physics The University of Texas at Austin Go Longhorns! From sundaram at fedoraproject.org Tue Jan 31 16:36:02 2006 From: sundaram at fedoraproject.org (Rahul Sundaram) Date: Tue, 31 Jan 2006 22:06:02 +0530 Subject: Feedback request In-Reply-To: <43DEEE41.809@ddeutsch.org> References: <43DEEE41.809@ddeutsch.org> Message-ID: <43DF91F2.20604@fedoraproject.org> Debra Deutsch wrote: >-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- >Hash: SHA1 > >It's been suggested that a good beginner task for me would be to >proofread and edit the FAQ and related pages >(http://www.fedoraproject.org/wiki/FAQ). I am happy to take that on. >I've read the pages about writing using the wiki and wiki editing. It's >left me with the impression that perhaps the FAQ should be broken into >pages instead of being one long page. > >What do people think of this potential change? Is there a standard way >to lay out a multi-page FAQ? I am imagining that the table of contents >would be one page. Each of the six main topics would also become a page. > >I have some business travel coming up that probably will keep me from >doing any editing until the weekend. I would very much appreciate >people's comments and advice in the meantime. > > > > I wanted it to be a single page for easy printing and reference. It might be better to use use sub pages and import macro in the wiki to get what you want without losing the advantages that a single large page provides. -- Rahul Fedora Bug Triaging - http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/BugZappers From kwade at redhat.com Tue Jan 31 17:54:21 2006 From: kwade at redhat.com (Karsten Wade) Date: Tue, 31 Jan 2006 09:54:21 -0800 Subject: I introduce myself In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <1138730062.5151.379.camel@erato.phig.org> On Sat, 2006-01-28 at 15:04 +0100, Francesco Ugolini wrote: > My name is Francesco Ugolini, i'm an Italian Fedora Ambassador (on > probing) and i have decided to help the Fedora Community to export > the power of this system everywhere. Welcome Francesco. Thanks already for your work in translating the Translation Quick Start Guide. > I've seen that many documents are only in english so my first task > were to traduce the FC4 install guide in italian. This is the reason > i've joined to this group to talk about my progress and to be > connected with other translator. Good idea. Even when we get documentation available to translate through the Fedora Translation Project's tools, we will still want to coordinate on this mailing list for many things. > Currently i've traduced the begginig, first chapter (in .txt format > not in xml, but i'm working on) and the chapter 7 (in .xml). You are off to a good start. Please let us know if you need any help or directions. - Karsten -- Karsten Wade, RHCE * Sr. Tech Writer * http://people.redhat.com/kwade/ gpg fingerprint: 2680 DBFD D968 3141 0115 5F1B D992 0E06 AD0E 0C41 Content Services Fedora Documentation Project http://www.redhat.com/docs http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/DocsProject -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: signature.asc Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 189 bytes Desc: This is a digitally signed message part URL: From stickster at gmail.com Tue Jan 31 18:38:19 2006 From: stickster at gmail.com (Paul W. Frields) Date: Tue, 31 Jan 2006 13:38:19 -0500 Subject: I introduce myself In-Reply-To: <1138730062.5151.379.camel@erato.phig.org> References: <1138730062.5151.379.camel@erato.phig.org> Message-ID: <1138732699.20323.1.camel@localhost.localdomain> On Tue, 2006-01-31 at 09:54 -0800, Karsten Wade wrote: > On Sat, 2006-01-28 at 15:04 +0100, Francesco Ugolini wrote: > > My name is Francesco Ugolini, i'm an Italian Fedora Ambassador (on > > probing) and i have decided to help the Fedora Community to export > > the power of this system everywhere. > > Welcome Francesco. Thanks already for your work in translating the > Translation Quick Start Guide. Oops, I think that was Francesco *Tombolini* who did that work! But we are always happy to have more Italian participants to help with translation and any other tasks of interest. Welcome, Francesco. -- Paul W. Frields, RHCE http://paul.frields.org/ gpg fingerprint: 3DA6 A0AC 6D58 FEC4 0233 5906 ACDB C937 BD11 3717 Fedora Documentation Project: http://fedora.redhat.com/projects/docs/ -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: signature.asc Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 189 bytes Desc: This is a digitally signed message part URL: From kwade at redhat.com Tue Jan 31 19:50:23 2006 From: kwade at redhat.com (Karsten Wade) Date: Tue, 31 Jan 2006 11:50:23 -0800 Subject: "how-to-burn on Windows" doc Message-ID: <1138737023.5151.421.camel@erato.phig.org> On Tue, 2006-01-24 at 22:24 +0000, David Fletcher wrote: > So, hope to see my document amongst the ISOs in a little while. Just to be clear, where exactly do you see this file being put? * In the directory with the ISOs, mirrored to every download site? Uh ... I guess that's the only sensible answer. Everything else would put it somewhere that you'd have to burn or mount the ISOs to see. - Karsten -- Karsten Wade, RHCE * Sr. Tech Writer * http://people.redhat.com/kwade/ gpg fingerprint: 2680 DBFD D968 3141 0115 5F1B D992 0E06 AD0E 0C41 Content Services Fedora Documentation Project http://www.redhat.com/docs http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/DocsProject -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: signature.asc Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 189 bytes Desc: This is a digitally signed message part URL: From stuart at elsn.org Tue Jan 31 22:53:53 2006 From: stuart at elsn.org (Stuart Ellis) Date: Tue, 31 Jan 2006 22:53:53 +0000 Subject: Minutes of FDSCo Meeting 31 January 2006 Message-ID: <1138748034.2843.30.camel@localhost.localdomain> Attending Members: ------------------ Karsten Wade (quaid) Tommy Reynolds (megacoder) Gavin Henry (G2) Paul Frields (stickster) Stuart Ellis (elliss) Also Participating: ------------------- Elliot Lee (Sopwith) Schedule of Tasks: ------------------ http://www.fedoraproject.org/wiki/DocsProject/FedoraDocsSchedule Highlights: ----------- * Karsten: E-mail with details on licensing documents with the OPL will be sent to the mailing lists. * Tommy: The translations within each CVS module will be split into separate directories, one per language. This requires the migration of the main translations infrastructure to completed first. Once complete the documentation package building infrastructure will also need to be updated. * Paul: RPMs for documentation now build from CVS. The resulting packages needed to be checked for correctness. A new package group will also need to be created for documentation packages. Once these items have been completed the packages can be added to Fedora Extras. Full IRC Log: ------------- https://www.redhat.com/archives/fedora-dsco-list/2006-January/msg00007.html -- Stuart Ellis stuart at elsn.org Fedora Documentation Project: http://fedora.redhat.com/projects/docs/ GPG key ID: 7098ABEA GPG key fingerprint: 68B0 E291 FB19 C845 E60E 9569 292E E365 7098 ABEA -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: signature.asc Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 189 bytes Desc: This is a digitally signed message part URL: