From tim at birdsnest.maths.tcd.ie Sat Jul 1 14:29:59 2006 From: tim at birdsnest.maths.tcd.ie (Timothy Murphy) Date: Sat, 01 Jul 2006 15:29:59 +0100 Subject: Updated Server Guide for Fedora Core 5 References: <44A4BF27.9070807@brennan.id.au> <1151674153.10189.23.camel@localhost.localdomain> Message-ID: Paul W. Frields wrote: > On Fri, 2006-06-30 at 16:05 +1000, Miles Brennan wrote: >> I wrote the "Linux Home Server HOWTO" which is located at >> http://www.brennan.id.au, and I have just recently updated the >> documentation for Fedora Core 5, this was an extensive rewrite (with >> further additional info) for many chapters. >> >> The HOWTO is approx 20 chapters which covers all aspects of setting up >> FC as a home gateway server as a step-by-step guide for beginners to >> intermediates - yum, bind (with DDNS update conf), ntpd, dhcpd, squid, >> sendmail, dovecot, spamassassin, clamav (and milter), vsftpd, cups, >> sshd, mysqld, samba, nfs (and V4), and ldap etc... and a chapter >> explaining the concepts of iptables/firewall configs. > Hi Miles. I took a quick look at your extensive (and commendable!) > work, and had the following constructive observations: > > 1. The document is licensed as CC BY-NC-SA, so you would need to > relicense it as OPL 1.0 [2] for the Fedora Documentation Project to use > it. > > 2. The document would benefit from style editing. While I don't disagree with your comments, I would be much more enthusiastic about this document. I haven't read it carefully, but at a first glance it looked like exactly what I needed a few months ago, when setting up apache, etc, on my desktop. I haven't seen a similar document elsewhere. -- Timothy Murphy e-mail (<80k only): tim /at/ birdsnest.maths.tcd.ie tel: +353-86-2336090, +353-1-2842366 s-mail: School of Mathematics, Trinity College, Dublin 2, Ireland From blcjr2 at gmail.com Sat Jul 1 15:24:07 2006 From: blcjr2 at gmail.com (Basil Copeland) Date: Sat, 1 Jul 2006 10:24:07 -0500 Subject: Updated Server Guide for Fedora Core 5 In-Reply-To: <1151674404.10189.30.camel@localhost.localdomain> References: <44A4BF27.9070807@brennan.id.au> <1151674153.10189.23.camel@localhost.localdomain> <1151674404.10189.30.camel@localhost.localdomain> Message-ID: <986aa8a20607010824r9621baei953b5e6ce25bdaed@mail.gmail.com> I've used earlier versions of this document. It is certainly good "as is," but if brought into the FDP and edited along the lines suggested by Paul, it would get better. I know that's asking for more out of the author, but with the proffer of help from Paul and others, maybe it wouldn't be too much to ask. On 6/30/06, Paul W. Frields wrote: > > Sorry to reply to myself, but in all my editorial blustering and > buffoonery, I not only mixed up my footnote ordering while revising my > reply, but failed to actually include the footnote URLs at all. :-( > (Something tells me a better email composer would help here.) Here they > are, with the antecedents included: > > > 1. The document is licensed as CC BY-NC-SA, so you would need to > > relicense it as OPL 1.0 [2] for the Fedora Documentation Project to use > > it. > > [2] http://opencontent.org/openpub/ > > > 2. The document would benefit from style editing. If you are > > interested in improving the readability of your document, check a good > > style manual, or even a simple Linux community one like the GNOME > > Documentation Style Guidelines [1]. If you join the FDP and relicense > > the doc for use here, I would be happy to work with you on this. > > [1] http://developer.gnome.org/documents/style-guide/index.html > > -- > Paul W. Frields, RHCE http://paul.frields.org/ > gpg fingerprint: 3DA6 A0AC 6D58 FEC4 0233 5906 ACDB C937 BD11 3717 > Fedora Project Board: http://www.fedoraproject.org/wiki/Board > Fedora Documentation Project: http://fedora.redhat.com/projects/docs/ > > > -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- > Version: GnuPG v1.4.3 (GNU/Linux) > > iD8DBQBEpSgkrNvJN70RNxcRAmDtAJ9tA3HyuazagUzzafX7+HABU2MKQwCgyG8X > S4x4KmrHiChPWTSUKegCzM8= > =2LcY > -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- > > > -- > fedora-docs-list mailing list > fedora-docs-list at redhat.com > To unsubscribe: > https://www.redhat.com/mailman/listinfo/fedora-docs-list > > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From stickster at gmail.com Sat Jul 1 16:51:12 2006 From: stickster at gmail.com (Paul W. Frields) Date: Sat, 01 Jul 2006 12:51:12 -0400 Subject: Updated Server Guide for Fedora Core 5 In-Reply-To: References: <44A4BF27.9070807@brennan.id.au> <1151674153.10189.23.camel@localhost.localdomain> Message-ID: <1151772672.26046.20.camel@localhost.localdomain> On Sat, 2006-07-01 at 15:29 +0100, Timothy Murphy wrote: > Paul W. Frields wrote: > > > On Fri, 2006-06-30 at 16:05 +1000, Miles Brennan wrote: > >> I wrote the "Linux Home Server HOWTO" which is located at > >> http://www.brennan.id.au, and I have just recently updated the > >> documentation for Fedora Core 5, this was an extensive rewrite (with > >> further additional info) for many chapters. > >> > >> The HOWTO is approx 20 chapters which covers all aspects of setting up > >> FC as a home gateway server as a step-by-step guide for beginners to > >> intermediates - yum, bind (with DDNS update conf), ntpd, dhcpd, squid, > >> sendmail, dovecot, spamassassin, clamav (and milter), vsftpd, cups, > >> sshd, mysqld, samba, nfs (and V4), and ldap etc... and a chapter > >> explaining the concepts of iptables/firewall configs. > > > Hi Miles. I took a quick look at your extensive (and commendable!) > > work, and had the following constructive observations: > > > > 1. The document is licensed as CC BY-NC-SA, so you would need to > > relicense it as OPL 1.0 [2] for the Fedora Documentation Project to use > > it. > > > > 2. The document would benefit from style editing. > > While I don't disagree with your comments, > I would be much more enthusiastic about this document. I did use the word "commendable" in there somewhere... ;-) These days, I usually withhold my more blatant and gushing enthusiasm until such time as additional folks step up to help whip these documents into fighting shape. Looking at our contributor list[1], I see a lot of names that popped up for roughly five minutes on the mailing list and then were never seen again. Would you be interested in joining in the effort[2]? Your enthusiasm could be contagious if followed up with some elbow grease! :-) = = = [1] http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/DocsProject/Contributors [2] http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/DocsProject/NewWriters -- Paul W. Frields, RHCE http://paul.frields.org/ gpg fingerprint: 3DA6 A0AC 6D58 FEC4 0233 5906 ACDB C937 BD11 3717 Fedora Project Board: http://www.fedoraproject.org/wiki/Board Fedora Documentation Project: http://fedora.redhat.com/projects/docs/ -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: signature.asc Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 189 bytes Desc: This is a digitally signed message part URL: From edward.haddock at hawaiiantel.net Sat Jul 1 18:02:31 2006 From: edward.haddock at hawaiiantel.net (Edward Haddock) Date: Sat, 01 Jul 2006 08:02:31 -1000 Subject: Aloha Message-ID: <1151776951.2883.2.camel@localhost.localdomain> Aloha everyone, I wanted to drop a line and let everyone know I am still alive. I have not been very active nor can promise that I will become more active in the future at this point. My promotion at work is eating all of my spare time. I have worked a little further with the "Documentation Guide" but nothing major to post or anything. Just wanted everyone to know I was still here after Paul's 5 minute comment. LOL Edward -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: signature.asc Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 189 bytes Desc: This is a digitally signed message part URL: From edward.haddock at hawaiiantel.net Sat Jul 1 18:24:26 2006 From: edward.haddock at hawaiiantel.net (Edward Haddock) Date: Sat, 01 Jul 2006 08:24:26 -1000 Subject: Documentation Guide Message-ID: <1151778266.3181.3.camel@localhost.localdomain> Aloha, Changed yum/Up2date to yum/Pirut and cleaned up a few other little pieces. If anyone has a chance please go look at section II. B. of the outline and give comment, edit or otherwise suggest improvements. After that I feel that piece is done for me and I will be looking at doing another project. The page is at http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/DocsProject/DocumentationGuide and is a Draft at his point. Mahalo, Edward -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: signature.asc Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 189 bytes Desc: This is a digitally signed message part URL: From dimitris at glezos.com Sun Jul 2 12:43:19 2006 From: dimitris at glezos.com (Dimitris Glezos) Date: Sun, 02 Jul 2006 13:43:19 +0100 Subject: String "Revision History" untranslatable Message-ID: <44A7BF67.3050107@glezos.com> Hi. I noticed that the string "Revision History" remains untranslated in the front page of the TQSD. It seems hardcoded in the xsl files. $ find . | xargs grep -o 'Revision History' ./docs-common/xsl/main-html.xsl:Revision History ./translation-quick-start-guide/translation-quick-start-el/index.html:Revision History $ grep 'Revision History' docs-common/xsl/main-html.xsl Revision History -Dim -- Dimitris Glezos Jabber ID: glezos at jabber.org, PGP: 0xA5A04C3B http://dimitris.glezos.com/ "He who gives up functionality for ease of use loses both and deserves neither." (Anonymous) -- From miles at brennan.id.au Sun Jul 2 12:34:11 2006 From: miles at brennan.id.au (Miles Brennan) Date: Sun, 02 Jul 2006 22:34:11 +1000 Subject: Updated Server Guide for Fedora Core 5 In-Reply-To: <1151772672.26046.20.camel@localhost.localdomain> References: <44A4BF27.9070807@brennan.id.au> <1151674153.10189.23.camel@localhost.localdomain> <1151772672.26046.20.camel@localhost.localdomain> Message-ID: <44A7BD43.5030402@brennan.id.au> -----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- Hash: SHA1 Paul W. Frields wrote: >>> 1. The document is licensed as CC BY-NC-SA, so you would need to >>> relicense it as OPL 1.0 [2] for the Fedora Documentation Project to use >>> it. I've had a read of the OPL, am I able to choose options with the license? >>> >>> 2. The document would benefit from style editing. >> While I don't disagree with your comments, >> I would be much more enthusiastic about this document. > That's ok, I knew what Paul meant. > I did use the word "commendable" in there somewhere... ;-) These days, I did note that ;-) thank you. > I usually withhold my more blatant and gushing enthusiasm until such > time as additional folks step up to help whip these documents into > fighting shape. Looking at our contributor list[1], I see a lot of > names that popped up for roughly five minutes on the mailing list and > then were never seen again. > > Would you be interested in joining in the effort[2]? Your enthusiasm > could be contagious if followed up with some elbow grease! :-) > > = = = > [1] http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/DocsProject/Contributors > [2] http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/DocsProject/NewWriters > > The document didn't get submitted last year because I didn't have time to bring it up to the latest version (FC4) and to then start preparing for the next revision before it's scheduled release. May I suggest that we possibly prepare this document "as is" for FC5, obvioulsy fixing any major technicalities, and then start working on the next revision ready for the final release of FC6. This may also allow me time to finish off the extra 3 chapters on my TODO list. My wiki account is "MilesBrennan" and my cvsdocs is "mbrennan" (waiting approval). I hope you have a good backup, I have used neither of these before ;-) Regards, Miles -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: GnuPG v1.4.2.2 (MingW32) iD8DBQFEp71DcSPa0xQu/fARAt0gAJsE1X8/64zuktsAniZcvt8XHS9OLQCfQFCD M0K+J7fxzb3Dv4tW6TrRqJY= =9Dg8 -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- From dimitris at glezos.com Sun Jul 2 14:55:23 2006 From: dimitris at glezos.com (Dimitris Glezos) Date: Sun, 02 Jul 2006 15:55:23 +0100 Subject: Make HTML encoding of docs UTF-8 Message-ID: <44A7DE5B.7060602@glezos.com> Hi. I noticed that the html docs do not use a UTF-8 encoding. Searching the archive of this list I found this "problem" noticed in the past but I didn't find any post saying why we haven't changed it yet. Would this be too hard to fix without affecting other ascii-encoded *redhat.com pages? Or should we wait for the plone site? -Dim -- Dimitris Glezos Jabber ID: glezos at jabber.org, PGP: 0xA5A04C3B http://dimitris.glezos.com/ "He who gives up functionality for ease of use loses both and deserves neither." (Anonymous) -- From kwade at redhat.com Sun Jul 2 17:29:28 2006 From: kwade at redhat.com (Karsten Wade) Date: Sun, 02 Jul 2006 10:29:28 -0700 Subject: Ship the FAQ - Again In-Reply-To: <44A5B25C.7060508@fedoraproject.org> References: <44A5B25C.7060508@fedoraproject.org> Message-ID: <1151861369.2483.89.camel@erato.phig.org> On Sat, 2006-07-01 at 04:53 +0530, Rahul Sundaram wrote: > Hi > > http://www.redhat.com/archives/fedora-docs-list/2006-January/msg00135.html > > This discussion didnt end up with the desired results last time. Can we > make sure we do this in FC6 test 2? For giggles, I added it to the Table of Contents on Docs/Beats. We'll have to take a look at how it builds into the release notes. You probably noticed that the FAQ is linked from the left-side navigation in /usr/share/doc/HTML/index.html, which wraps the release notes in FC5? So, consider all that -- we can link in to it, but is the FAQ providing information essential to initial, off-line operations? If so, please file a bug against the release notes and have it block the (new) FC6 tracking bug 197471: https://bugzilla.redhat.com/bugzilla/show_bug.cgi?id=197471 - Karsten -- Karsten Wade, RHCE, 108 Editor ^ Fedora Documentation Project Sr. Developer Relations Mgr. | fedoraproject.org/wiki/DocsProject quaid.108.redhat.com | gpg key: AD0E0C41 ////////////////////////////////// \\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\ -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: signature.asc Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 189 bytes Desc: This is a digitally signed message part URL: From tim at birdsnest.maths.tcd.ie Sun Jul 2 17:50:55 2006 From: tim at birdsnest.maths.tcd.ie (Timothy Murphy) Date: Sun, 02 Jul 2006 18:50:55 +0100 Subject: Updated Server Guide for Fedora Core 5 References: <44A4BF27.9070807@brennan.id.au> <1151674153.10189.23.camel@localhost.localdomain> <1151772672.26046.20.camel@localhost.localdomain> Message-ID: Paul W. Frields wrote: > Looking at our contributor list[1], I see a lot of > names that popped up for roughly five minutes on the mailing list and > then were never seen again. > > Would you be interested in joining in the effort[2]? Your enthusiasm > could be contagious if followed up with some elbow grease! :-) > > = = = > [1] http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/DocsProject/Contributors > [2] http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/DocsProject/NewWriters I've certainly thought of this, but haven't come up with a topic on which I could plausibly pontificate! I do very strongly support what you are doing, as it seems to me that good documentation and easily-accessible information are at least as important to the future of Linux as technical improvement. -- Timothy Murphy e-mail (<80k only): tim /at/ birdsnest.maths.tcd.ie tel: +353-86-2336090, +353-1-2842366 s-mail: School of Mathematics, Trinity College, Dublin 2, Ireland From stickster at gmail.com Sun Jul 2 22:10:33 2006 From: stickster at gmail.com (Paul W. Frields) Date: Sun, 02 Jul 2006 18:10:33 -0400 Subject: String "Revision History" untranslatable In-Reply-To: <44A7BF67.3050107@glezos.com> References: <44A7BF67.3050107@glezos.com> Message-ID: <1151878233.30380.9.camel@localhost.localdomain> On Sun, 2006-07-02 at 13:43 +0100, Dimitris Glezos wrote: > Hi. > > I noticed that the string "Revision History" remains untranslated in the > front page of the TQSD. It seems hardcoded in the xsl files. > > $ find . | xargs grep -o 'Revision History' > ./docs-common/xsl/main-html.xsl:Revision History > ./translation-quick-start-guide/translation-quick-start-el/index.html:Revision > History > > $ grep 'Revision History' docs-common/xsl/main-html.xsl > Revision History Hi Dimitris, You can translate this by editing the rpm-info.xml file directly in the top level of each module. I was idly wondering the other day whether this should move into the ${PRI_LANG} directory for ease of translation. I seem to recall we had it that way when we started and moved it outside for some reason. Maybe we didn't know what we were doing when we did? -- Paul W. Frields, RHCE http://paul.frields.org/ gpg fingerprint: 3DA6 A0AC 6D58 FEC4 0233 5906 ACDB C937 BD11 3717 Fedora Project Board: http://www.fedoraproject.org/wiki/Board Fedora Documentation Project: http://fedora.redhat.com/projects/docs/ -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: signature.asc Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 189 bytes Desc: This is a digitally signed message part URL: From stickster at gmail.com Sun Jul 2 22:13:57 2006 From: stickster at gmail.com (Paul W. Frields) Date: Sun, 02 Jul 2006 18:13:57 -0400 Subject: Make HTML encoding of docs UTF-8 In-Reply-To: <44A7DE5B.7060602@glezos.com> References: <44A7DE5B.7060602@glezos.com> Message-ID: <1151878437.30380.12.camel@localhost.localdomain> On Sun, 2006-07-02 at 15:55 +0100, Dimitris Glezos wrote: > Hi. > > I noticed that the html docs do not use a UTF-8 encoding. Searching the > archive of this list I found this "problem" noticed in the past but I > didn't find any post saying why we haven't changed it yet. > > Would this be too hard to fix without affecting other ascii-encoded > *redhat.com pages? Or should we wait for the plone site? Hm, good point Dimitris... I wonder whether we should have "xhtml" targets in Makefile.common. My understanding is the impact of XHTML is minimal to non-existent for browsing clients, but I may be (as usual) half (or less) informed. Anyone care to offer a wiser opinion? -- Paul W. Frields, RHCE http://paul.frields.org/ gpg fingerprint: 3DA6 A0AC 6D58 FEC4 0233 5906 ACDB C937 BD11 3717 Fedora Project Board: http://www.fedoraproject.org/wiki/Board Fedora Documentation Project: http://fedora.redhat.com/projects/docs/ -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: signature.asc Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 189 bytes Desc: This is a digitally signed message part URL: From nman64 at n-man.com Mon Jul 3 03:41:56 2006 From: nman64 at n-man.com (Patrick W. Barnes) Date: Sun, 2 Jul 2006 22:41:56 -0500 Subject: Updated Server Guide for Fedora Core 5 In-Reply-To: <44A7BD43.5030402@brennan.id.au> References: <44A4BF27.9070807@brennan.id.au> <1151772672.26046.20.camel@localhost.localdomain> <44A7BD43.5030402@brennan.id.au> Message-ID: <200607022241.59998.nman64@n-man.com> On Sunday 02 July 2006 07:34, Miles Brennan wrote: > Paul W. Frields wrote: > >>> 1. The document is licensed as CC BY-NC-SA, so you would need to > >>> relicense it as OPL 1.0 [2] for the Fedora Documentation Project to use > >>> it. > > I've had a read of the OPL, am I able to choose options with the license? No. All documents within the Fedora Documentation Project are licensed under the OPL 1.0 without options. More on our licensing and other legal details can be found in the Legal section of the wiki: http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Legal If you have questions about the license or why we use it, feel free to ask. > The document didn't get submitted last year because I didn't have time > to bring it up to the latest version (FC4) and to then start preparing > for the next revision before it's scheduled release. > > May I suggest that we possibly prepare this document "as is" for FC5, > obvioulsy fixing any major technicalities, and then start working on the > next revision ready for the final release of FC6. This may also allow me > time to finish off the extra 3 chapters on my TODO list. We have plenty of draft documents that are completely accessible to the public. This could join them in its current form. We can work on preparing it for FC6 and can move it to a published state whenever it is ready. > > My wiki account is "MilesBrennan" and my cvsdocs is "mbrennan" (waiting > approval). > I hope you have a good backup, I have used neither of these before ;-) > The beauty of both of these is that they provide revision control. We can fix almost any screw-up. Still, we'd be happy to answer any questions before you have to resort to experimentation. I've added you to the wiki's EditGroup, which should be enough to get you started. If you agree to the licensing, we can further develop your document in the wiki before we even begin to worry about CVS. -- Patrick "The N-Man" Barnes nman64 at n-man.com http://www.n-man.com/ LinkedIn: http://www.linkedin.com/in/nman64 Have I been helpful? Rate my assistance! http://rate.affero.net/nman64/ -- -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 189 bytes Desc: not available URL: From nman64 at n-man.com Mon Jul 3 03:51:53 2006 From: nman64 at n-man.com (Patrick W. Barnes) Date: Sun, 2 Jul 2006 22:51:53 -0500 Subject: Make HTML encoding of docs UTF-8 In-Reply-To: <1151878437.30380.12.camel@localhost.localdomain> References: <44A7DE5B.7060602@glezos.com> <1151878437.30380.12.camel@localhost.localdomain> Message-ID: <200607022251.56426.nman64@n-man.com> On Sunday 02 July 2006 17:13, "Paul W. Frields" wrote: > On Sun, 2006-07-02 at 15:55 +0100, Dimitris Glezos wrote: > > Hi. > > > > I noticed that the html docs do not use a UTF-8 encoding. Searching the > > archive of this list I found this "problem" noticed in the past but I > > didn't find any post saying why we haven't changed it yet. > > > > Would this be too hard to fix without affecting other ascii-encoded > > *redhat.com pages? Or should we wait for the plone site? > > Hm, good point Dimitris... I wonder whether we should have "xhtml" > targets in Makefile.common. My understanding is the impact of XHTML is > minimal to non-existent for browsing clients, but I may be (as usual) > half (or less) informed. Anyone care to offer a wiser opinion? XHTML is currently an issue with rather passionate supporters on both sides. I'm generally a supporter of XHTML, but many of the opposing viewpoints are valid concerns. Since there aren't any issues with using HTML 4.01, I would recommend sticking with it on fedora.redhat.com for now. I don't see any reason we couldn't use UTF-8 for the HTML documents, and I would support making that change. -- Patrick "The N-Man" Barnes nman64 at n-man.com http://www.n-man.com/ LinkedIn: http://www.linkedin.com/in/nman64 Have I been helpful? Rate my assistance! http://rate.affero.net/nman64/ -- -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 189 bytes Desc: not available URL: From journo_bouy at hotmail.co.uk Mon Jul 3 08:56:15 2006 From: journo_bouy at hotmail.co.uk (Adam Moreland) Date: Mon, 03 Jul 2006 08:56:15 +0000 Subject: Wireless Guide / NTFS Guide / New writing In-Reply-To: <44A7BD43.5030402@brennan.id.au> Message-ID: Hey all, Reading some of these posts on a server guide [Re: Updated Server Guide for Fedora Core 5], i would like to submit, or rather enquire as to the validity of adding a guide on wireless internet installation using ndiswrapper, and also touch on some of the built in wireless support, such as IPW2200... I have written recently, and refined, a guide for Fedora Core 5, for the installation and configuration of a wireless network using ndiswrapper, that includes how to configure WEP/WPA/TKIP security encryption, and how to install ndiswrapper using yum and repos, manual compiles, and from cvs. This guide has been the culmination of extensive work, based on problmes many many people have with wireless internet, and using ndiswrapper. In fact most dont even know what ndiswrapper is, or what it does, let alone how to use it. To date, i have yet to see any official fedora instructions for this type of problem, and only scattered wiki pages that are often mish mashed together on [1]. My wireless guide is written in HTML, and is viewable here [2] and is detailed and split into sections, for ease of reading. If some one can have a look over this guide. I would cleans this guide up, and re-write in the third person, should this guide be of use as an official document. I already have had my guide linked to a number of times by various places, including fedoraforum.org, and also [3] fedorazine. [1]http://ndiswrapper.sourceforge.net [2]http://www.manix-place.co.uk/wireless.html [3]http://www.fedorazine.com I feel this guide could help many more fedora users, and could do with being made "official", given the lack of information on the web about wireless unless you know what you are looking for, and how to use it. This guide simplifies the mass of information into 7 sections that guide you through preparations to installations and finally configurations, with troubleshooting, and useful links sections. POlease feel free to comment on this and let me know what can be done about making this official. And further, with respect to this: >I usually withhold my more blatant and gushing enthusiasm until such >time as additional folks step up to help whip these documents into >fighting shape. Looking at our contributor list[1], I see a lot of >names that popped up for roughly five minutes on the mailing list and >then were never seen again. > >Would you be interested in joining in the effort[2]? Your enthusiasm >could be contagious if followed up with some elbow grease! :-) > >= = = >[1] http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/DocsProject/Contributors [2] >http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/DocsProject/NewWriters > i have been involved as much as i can, admittidly not as much as i had hoped, but i actually never thought this guide, or anything else could be of use. I have an NTFS guide on the same website (listed in my sig) should this also be of any use, and have many more lined up, which is why i have not been as active. However i have been trying to edit wikis in the games sections as often as i can, and work with the docs projects. I am eager to write more and could to with some guidance from those more experienced. I am also not adverse to elbow grease, so i think you will enjoy the final products i produce, under the right guidance and criticisms. Sorry for the extensive reply, and i hope someone can help guide me, and comment on this work?? Mr Adam L Moreland (MAniX) | Registered Linux User: #417406 BA (Hons) Media Studies, 2nd Year, UoN WEB: http://www.manix-place.co.uk BLOG:http://www.2welshmen-and-a-sheep.co.uk **** System: Pentium 4 SKT478 2.8GHz Precott, AMD Athlon XP-M 2800+ | GPG Key: AC230C32 **** pub 1024D/AC230C32 2006-05-21 Key fingerprint = 14F4 50F5 806C 25A5 B33C C2BF 982C 87B7 AC23 0C32 uid Adam Moreland (MAniX) sub 2048g/A471FCE7 2006-05-21 **** >From: Miles Brennan >Reply-To: For participants of the Documentation Project > >To: For participants of the Documentation Project > >Subject: Re: Updated Server Guide for Fedora Core 5 >Date: Sun, 02 Jul 2006 22:34:11 +1000 > >-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- >Hash: SHA1 > >Paul W. Frields wrote: > >>> 1. The document is licensed as CC BY-NC-SA, so you would need to > >>> relicense it as OPL 1.0 [2] for the Fedora Documentation Project to >use > >>> it. > >I've had a read of the OPL, am I able to choose options with the license? > > >>> > >>> 2. The document would benefit from style editing. > >> While I don't disagree with your comments, > >> I would be much more enthusiastic about this document. > > > >That's ok, I knew what Paul meant. > > > I did use the word "commendable" in there somewhere... ;-) These days, > >I did note that ;-) thank you. > > > I usually withhold my more blatant and gushing enthusiasm until such > > time as additional folks step up to help whip these documents into > > fighting shape. Looking at our contributor list[1], I see a lot of > > names that popped up for roughly five minutes on the mailing list and > > then were never seen again. > > > > Would you be interested in joining in the effort[2]? Your enthusiasm > > could be contagious if followed up with some elbow grease! :-) > > > > = = = > > [1] http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/DocsProject/Contributors > > [2] http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/DocsProject/NewWriters > > > > > >The document didn't get submitted last year because I didn't have time >to bring it up to the latest version (FC4) and to then start preparing >for the next revision before it's scheduled release. > >May I suggest that we possibly prepare this document "as is" for FC5, >obvioulsy fixing any major technicalities, and then start working on the >next revision ready for the final release of FC6. This may also allow me >time to finish off the extra 3 chapters on my TODO list. > >My wiki account is "MilesBrennan" and my cvsdocs is "mbrennan" (waiting >approval). >I hope you have a good backup, I have used neither of these before ;-) > > >Regards, >Miles >-----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- >Version: GnuPG v1.4.2.2 (MingW32) > >iD8DBQFEp71DcSPa0xQu/fARAt0gAJsE1X8/64zuktsAniZcvt8XHS9OLQCfQFCD >M0K+J7fxzb3Dv4tW6TrRqJY= >=9Dg8 >-----END PGP SIGNATURE----- > >-- >fedora-docs-list mailing list >fedora-docs-list at redhat.com >To unsubscribe: >https://www.redhat.com/mailman/listinfo/fedora-docs-list _________________________________________________________________ Windows Live? Messenger has arrived. Click here to download it for free! http://imagine-msn.com/messenger/launch80/?locale=en-gb From sundaram at fedoraproject.org Mon Jul 3 09:41:12 2006 From: sundaram at fedoraproject.org (Rahul Sundaram) Date: Mon, 03 Jul 2006 15:11:12 +0530 Subject: Release notes beat wiki locked? Message-ID: <44A8E638.2000700@fedoraproject.org> Hi Not able to edit any pages in http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Docs/Beats/ and in that hierarchy. Would someone check this out. I plan to cover the FC6 test 2 release notes. Rahul From nman64 at n-man.com Mon Jul 3 10:08:32 2006 From: nman64 at n-man.com (Patrick W. Barnes) Date: Mon, 3 Jul 2006 05:08:32 -0500 Subject: Wireless Guide / NTFS Guide / New writing In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <200607030508.35315.nman64@n-man.com> On Monday 03 July 2006 03:56, "Adam Moreland" wrote: > > Reading some of these posts on a server guide [Re: Updated Server Guide for > Fedora Core 5], i would like to submit, or rather enquire as to the > validity of adding a guide on wireless internet installation using > ndiswrapper, and also touch on some of the built in wireless support, such > as IPW2200... > > I have written recently, and refined, a guide for Fedora Core 5, for the > installation and configuration of a wireless network using ndiswrapper, > that includes how to configure WEP/WPA/TKIP security encryption, and how to > install ndiswrapper using yum and repos, manual compiles, and from cvs. > > This guide has been the culmination of extensive work, based on problmes > many many people have with wireless internet, and using ndiswrapper. In > fact most dont even know what ndiswrapper is, or what it does, let alone > how to use it. To date, i have yet to see any official fedora instructions > for this type of problem, and only scattered wiki pages that are often mish > mashed together on [1]. > > My wireless guide is written in HTML, and is viewable here [2] and is > detailed and split into sections, for ease of reading. If some one can have > a look over this guide. I would cleans this guide up, and re-write in the > third person, should this guide be of use as an official document. I > already have had my guide linked to a number of times by various places, > including fedoraforum.org, and also [3] fedorazine. > > [1]http://ndiswrapper.sourceforge.net > [2]http://www.manix-place.co.uk/wireless.html > [3]http://www.fedorazine.com > > I feel this guide could help many more fedora users, and could do with > being made "official", given the lack of information on the web about > wireless unless you know what you are looking for, and how to use it. This > guide simplifies the mass of information into 7 sections that guide you > through preparations to installations and finally configurations, with > troubleshooting, and useful links sections. POlease feel free to comment on > this and let me know what can be done about making this official. > > And further, with respect to this: > >I usually withhold my more blatant and gushing enthusiasm until such > >time as additional folks step up to help whip these documents into > >fighting shape. Looking at our contributor list[1], I see a lot of > >names that popped up for roughly five minutes on the mailing list and > >then were never seen again. > > > >Would you be interested in joining in the effort[2]? Your enthusiasm > >could be contagious if followed up with some elbow grease! :-) > > > >= = = > >[1] http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/DocsProject/Contributors [2] > >http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/DocsProject/NewWriters > > i have been involved as much as i can, admittidly not as much as i had > hoped, but i actually never thought this guide, or anything else could be > of use. I have an NTFS guide on the same website (listed in my sig) should > this also be of any use, and have many more lined up, which is why i have > not been as active. However i have been trying to edit wikis in the games > sections as often as i can, and work with the docs projects. I am eager to > write more and could to with some guidance from those more experienced. I > am also not adverse to elbow grease, so i think you will enjoy the final > products i produce, under the right guidance and criticisms. > > Sorry for the extensive reply, and i hope someone can help guide me, and > comment on this work?? > Unfortunately, neither of these guides are suitable for inclusion by the Fedora Documentation Project. We follow the same commitments as the rest of the Fedora Project, which prevents the inclusion of documentation on non-free or non-open source technologies. See the ForbiddenItems page for a few examples of things we won't document: http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/ForbiddenItems This material sounds appropriate for Fedora Unity. You might consider contacting that team. http://fedoraunity.org/ -- Patrick "The N-Man" Barnes nman64 at n-man.com http://www.n-man.com/ LinkedIn: http://www.linkedin.com/in/nman64 Have I been helpful? Rate my assistance! http://rate.affero.net/nman64/ -- -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 189 bytes Desc: not available URL: From dimitris at glezos.com Mon Jul 3 11:27:17 2006 From: dimitris at glezos.com (Dimitris Glezos) Date: Mon, 03 Jul 2006 12:27:17 +0100 Subject: Make HTML encoding of docs UTF-8 In-Reply-To: <1151878437.30380.12.camel@localhost.localdomain> References: <44A7DE5B.7060602@glezos.com> <1151878437.30380.12.camel@localhost.localdomain> Message-ID: <44A8FF15.5010503@glezos.com> O/H Paul W. Frields ??????: > On Sun, 2006-07-02 at 15:55 +0100, Dimitris Glezos wrote: >> Hi. >> >> I noticed that the html docs do not use a UTF-8 encoding. Searching the >> archive of this list I found this "problem" noticed in the past but I >> didn't find any post saying why we haven't changed it yet. >> >> Would this be too hard to fix without affecting other ascii-encoded >> *redhat.com pages? Or should we wait for the plone site? > > Hm, good point Dimitris... I wonder whether we should have "xhtml" > targets in Makefile.common. My understanding is the impact of XHTML is > minimal to non-existent for browsing clients, but I may be (as usual) > half (or less) informed. Anyone care to offer a wiser opinion? Yes, there is no difference between an XHTML and an HTML doc inside a browser, as far as you serve it as "text/html" (this is the default for most web pages). The advantage of XHTML is that it is an XML dialect, so it can do XSLT, XPath and all the other cool stuff the XML libraries do. And of course, Plone uses XHTML too. I agree with Patrick to stick with HTML for the fedora.redhat.com site but do change the encoding to UTF-8. We should probably do some testing in the near future to see if it's hard to do XHTML for the plone site. -Dim -- Dimitris Glezos Jabber ID: glezos at jabber.org, PGP: 0xA5A04C3B http://dimitris.glezos.com/ "He who gives up functionality for ease of use loses both and deserves neither." (Anonymous) -- From stickster at gmail.com Mon Jul 3 12:49:17 2006 From: stickster at gmail.com (Paul W. Frields) Date: Mon, 03 Jul 2006 08:49:17 -0400 Subject: Wireless Guide / NTFS Guide / New writing In-Reply-To: <200607030508.35315.nman64@n-man.com> References: <200607030508.35315.nman64@n-man.com> Message-ID: <1151930957.2789.20.camel@localhost.localdomain> On Mon, 2006-07-03 at 05:08 -0500, Patrick W. Barnes wrote: > On Monday 03 July 2006 03:56, "Adam Moreland" > wrote: > > i have been involved as much as i can, admittidly not as much as i had > > hoped, but i actually never thought this guide, or anything else could be > > of use. I have an NTFS guide on the same website (listed in my sig) should > > this also be of any use, and have many more lined up, which is why i have > > not been as active. However i have been trying to edit wikis in the games > > sections as often as i can, and work with the docs projects. I am eager to > > write more and could to with some guidance from those more experienced. I > > am also not adverse to elbow grease, so i think you will enjoy the final > > products i produce, under the right guidance and criticisms. It appears I inadvertently touched a nerve in some people at whom my "disappear" comment was not directed. I know we have a number of volunteers lurking about who give time and energy when they can. We see your commits on the Wiki since many of us use the watch lists and are notified when you make them. Adam, you and many others have our gratitude for your contributions. Please understand my comment was only a little despondent over the fact that we have fewer hands on board than we'd like... although that makes us absolutely no different than any part of Fedora, or even most free software projects. > > Sorry for the extensive reply, and i hope someone can help guide me, and > > comment on this work?? > > Unfortunately, neither of these guides are suitable for inclusion by the > Fedora Documentation Project. We follow the same commitments as the rest of > the Fedora Project, which prevents the inclusion of documentation on non-free > or non-open source technologies. See the ForbiddenItems page for a few > examples of things we won't document: > > http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/ForbiddenItems > > This material sounds appropriate for Fedora Unity. You might consider > contacting that team. > > http://fedoraunity.org/ +0.75: Several people have raised the point on the f-a-b list that the upstream kernel has included an NTFS driver for a LONG time, and since the OIN protects the kernel, there should be no prohibition against Fedora shipping at least a read-only NTFS kernel module. If we can resolve that issue successfully, an NTFS guide which restricts itself to that protected part of the problem space (i.e. the portion solved by an included kernel module) would be a useful and good thing. -- Paul W. Frields, RHCE http://paul.frields.org/ gpg fingerprint: 3DA6 A0AC 6D58 FEC4 0233 5906 ACDB C937 BD11 3717 Fedora Project Board: http://www.fedoraproject.org/wiki/Board Fedora Documentation Project: http://fedora.redhat.com/projects/docs/ -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: signature.asc Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 189 bytes Desc: This is a digitally signed message part URL: From erickreller at googlemail.com Mon Jul 3 13:09:01 2006 From: erickreller at googlemail.com (Eric Kreller) Date: Mon, 3 Jul 2006 15:09:01 +0200 Subject: Searching something to do at Fedora Docs Project Message-ID: <6392431f0607030609x63cf291bk12253df853bb274f@mail.gmail.com> Hi, I'm new at Fedora Docs Project and searching something I can do. Did you have something for me? I can also translate parts in to german. Regards Eric pub 1024D/E756BF5C 2006-06-25 Key fingerprint = C46D 167D FA6F 8E27 6744 1157 133F 3201 E756 BF5C uid Eric Kreller (nothing) sub 1024g/E94D9F89 2006-06-25 -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From stickster at gmail.com Mon Jul 3 13:13:41 2006 From: stickster at gmail.com (Paul W. Frields) Date: Mon, 03 Jul 2006 09:13:41 -0400 Subject: Release notes beat wiki locked? In-Reply-To: <44A8E638.2000700@fedoraproject.org> References: <44A8E638.2000700@fedoraproject.org> Message-ID: <1151932421.2789.36.camel@localhost.localdomain> On Mon, 2006-07-03 at 15:11 +0530, Rahul Sundaram wrote: > Not able to edit any pages in http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Docs/Beats/ > and in that hierarchy. Would someone check this out. I plan to cover > the FC6 test 2 release notes. According to the schedule[1] and associated discussions, the beats were to freeze at 0000 UTC on 3 July for translation and such. Not that this is particularly helpful, since I've seen barely any commits to the pages from beat writers since test1. :-( I'm keeping an eye on my inbox for writes and do editorial passes as they come in. = = = [1] http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/DocsProject/Schedule -- Paul W. Frields, RHCE http://paul.frields.org/ gpg fingerprint: 3DA6 A0AC 6D58 FEC4 0233 5906 ACDB C937 BD11 3717 Fedora Project Board: http://www.fedoraproject.org/wiki/Board Fedora Documentation Project: http://fedora.redhat.com/projects/docs/ -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: signature.asc Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 189 bytes Desc: This is a digitally signed message part URL: From journo_bouy at hotmail.co.uk Mon Jul 3 13:15:39 2006 From: journo_bouy at hotmail.co.uk (Adam Moreland) Date: Mon, 03 Jul 2006 13:15:39 +0000 Subject: Wireless Guide / NTFS Guide / New writing In-Reply-To: <1151930957.2789.20.camel@localhost.localdomain> Message-ID: Hey, > >+0.75: Several people have raised the point on the f-a-b list that the >upstream kernel has included an NTFS driver for a LONG time, and since >the OIN protects the kernel, there should be no prohibition against >Fedora shipping at least a read-only NTFS kernel module. If we can >resolve that issue successfully, an NTFS guide which restricts itself to >that protected part of the problem space (i.e. the portion solved by an >included kernel module) would be a useful and good thing. > >-- >Paul W. Frields, RHCE http://paul.frields.org/ > gpg fingerprint: 3DA6 A0AC 6D58 FEC4 0233 5906 ACDB C937 BD11 3717 > Fedora Project Board: http://www.fedoraproject.org/wiki/Board > Fedora Documentation Project: http://fedora.redhat.com/projects/docs/ I am for such a thing. Also can i ask for some verification, as as far as i know, fedora dfoes ship with supports for some wireless NIC's and ndiswrapper is an open source program. In fact can i ask for clarification on the definition of wireless ebing restricted and prohibited. The usage of ndiswrapper is to allow proprietry software to intergrate into the kernel, but this seems not to be an issue in other distros and in fact fedora ships with support for some Intel wireless cards already. Surely for the sake of fedora this type of distinction (of wireless being forbidden) is rediculous. After all it is an open source solution, using open source materials, to allow the open surce communtiy to have legal access to the drivers they already paid for once they purchased the wireless NIC. I cannot see how a guide on the usage of ndiswrapper (which is open source) cannot be achieved, so long as the guide doesnt explicitly promote the proprietry software. After all isnt this the point?? To intergrate the open source to merge the experience into one community solution?? Wireless is still a massive problem for Linux users, but i have guides for both SUSE 9.x/10.x and FC5. Please can i have clarification as to the reasons that ndiswrapper cannot be used in the fedora etras repo, and why the use of ndiswrapper contradicts the policy of fedora-docs on the use of proprietry means. I read the policy as meaning that you cannot use nVidia, as they make it, but ndiswrapper is a middle man, and is open source. We (linux community) have used the same workarounds to get Logitech keybaords, HP devices, most printers, laptops, speakers, sound cards, and other methods. The user need not support proprietry means, because by using the open source ndiswrapper, they are surely curcumventing the need to be protected by the policy on forbidding proprietry terms. I can see the huge gap caused by the lack of clarification from fedora on the use of such means like wireless, and also NTFS. The confusion is unwarrented surely. Cant there be a solution where the NTFS modules can be brought into fedora extras, and a guide be used accordingly. FAT32 is supported, and other forms and file systems, so why not NTFS, which has had a long history with fedora and is clearly completly open source. Mr Adam L Moreland (MAniX) | Registered Linux User: #417406 BA (Hons) Media Studies, 2nd Year, UoN WEB: http://www.manix-place.co.uk BLOG:http://www.2welshmen-and-a-sheep.co.uk **** System: Pentium 4 SKT478 2.8GHz Precott, AMD Athlon XP-M 2800+ | GPG Key: AC230C32 **** pub 1024D/AC230C32 2006-05-21 Key fingerprint = 14F4 50F5 806C 25A5 B33C C2BF 982C 87B7 AC23 0C32 uid Adam Moreland (MAniX) sub 2048g/A471FCE7 2006-05-21 **** _________________________________________________________________ Windows Live? Messenger has arrived. Click here to download it for free! http://imagine-msn.com/messenger/launch80/?locale=en-gb From sundaram at fedoraproject.org Mon Jul 3 13:30:15 2006 From: sundaram at fedoraproject.org (Rahul Sundaram) Date: Mon, 03 Jul 2006 19:00:15 +0530 Subject: Wireless Guide / NTFS Guide / New writing In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <44A91BE7.3080406@fedoraproject.org> Adam Moreland wrote: > I am for such a thing. Also can i ask for some verification, as as far > as i know, fedora dfoes ship with supports for some wireless NIC's and > ndiswrapper is an open source program. In fact can i ask for > clarification on the definition of wireless ebing restricted and > prohibited. > > The usage of ndiswrapper is to allow proprietry software to intergrate > into the kernel, but this seems not to be an issue in other distros > and in fact fedora ships with support for some Intel wireless cards > already. Surely for the sake of fedora this type of distinction (of > wireless being forbidden) is rediculous. Wireless is not forbidden. Ndiswrapper is. > After all it is an open source solution, using open source materials, > to allow the open surce communtiy to have legal access to the drivers > they already paid for once they purchased the wireless NIC. > > I cannot see how a guide on the usage of ndiswrapper (which is open > source) cannot be achieved, so long as the guide doesnt explicitly > promote the proprietry software. After all isnt this the point?? To > intergrate the open source to merge the experience into one community > solution?? Wireless is still a massive problem for Linux users, but i > have guides for both SUSE 9.x/10.x and FC5. > > Please can i have clarification as to the reasons that ndiswrapper > cannot be used in the fedora etras repo, and why the use of > ndiswrapper contradicts the policy of fedora-docs on the use of > proprietry means. I read the policy as meaning that you cannot use > nVidia, as they make it, but ndiswrapper is a middle man, and is open > source. We (linux community) have used the same workarounds to get > Logitech keybaords, HP devices, most printers, laptops, speakers, > sound cards, and other methods. The user need not support proprietry > means, because by using the open source ndiswrapper, they are surely > curcumventing the need to be protected by the policy on forbidding > proprietry terms. > > I can see the huge gap caused by the lack of clarification from fedora > on the use of such means like wireless, and also NTFS. The confusion > is unwarrented surely. Cant there be a solution where the NTFS modules > can be brought into fedora extras, and a guide be used accordingly. > FAT32 is supported, and other forms and file systems, so why not NTFS, > which has had a long history with fedora and is clearly completly open > source. The explanation is given here at http://www.redhat.com/archives/rhl-beta-list/2006-March/msg00395.html. There are other technical reasons such as the issue of 4k stacks being the default (http://lwn.net/Articles/160138/). Many of the windows drivers would not work with Ndiswrapper since they require more than 16 k stacks in the kernel. The only purpose of ndiswrapper is to enable the loading of binary only modules within the kernel from a different platform. Fedora will not formally support or endorse such efforts. If you the read the forbidden items page you would know that Fedora does not provide any software that is patent encumbered. Merely having the source does not satisfy all our requirements for inclusion. Rahul From stickster at gmail.com Mon Jul 3 13:58:06 2006 From: stickster at gmail.com (Paul W. Frields) Date: Mon, 03 Jul 2006 09:58:06 -0400 Subject: Searching something to do at Fedora Docs Project In-Reply-To: <6392431f0607030609x63cf291bk12253df853bb274f@mail.gmail.com> References: <6392431f0607030609x63cf291bk12253df853bb274f@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <1151935086.2789.41.camel@localhost.localdomain> On Mon, 2006-07-03 at 15:09 +0200, Eric Kreller wrote: > Hi, > I'm new at Fedora Docs Project and searching something I can do. > Did you have something for me? > I can also translate parts in to german. Hi Eric, you can refer to the NewWriters page on the wiki for a guide to signing up: http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/DocsProject/NewWriters We have quite a bit of work in CVS that is eligible for translation -- including the Translation Quick Start Guide itself! http://fedora.redhat.com/docs/translation-quick-start-guide/ -- Paul W. Frields, RHCE http://paul.frields.org/ gpg fingerprint: 3DA6 A0AC 6D58 FEC4 0233 5906 ACDB C937 BD11 3717 Fedora Project Board: http://www.fedoraproject.org/wiki/Board Fedora Documentation Project: http://fedora.redhat.com/projects/docs/ -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: signature.asc Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 189 bytes Desc: This is a digitally signed message part URL: From journo_bouy at hotmail.co.uk Mon Jul 3 14:17:14 2006 From: journo_bouy at hotmail.co.uk (Adam Moreland) Date: Mon, 03 Jul 2006 14:17:14 +0000 Subject: Wireless Guide / NTFS Guide / New writing In-Reply-To: <44A91BE7.3080406@fedoraproject.org> Message-ID: having read your comments Rahul, i see the troubles. I can also see that more work needs to be done to show the native drivers, and the cards they work with. Many users just buy NIC's and have to use ndiswrapper, or other technology. I see the drivers list is growing for support for wireless, but can these guides be made more availble, and put in some section of its own. Please forgive me if this is already the case, but after a very short search (so apologies if im wrong) it seems there is little to help show me what devioces are allowed, and what can be used nativly, and thus what i should buy as a wireless NIC to have full native support as standard. Forgive my outburts also. It is a hot day here, and the lengthy process takes its toll on many a user at times. I have used ndiswrapper for a long while, and it is far from great, hence the need for such guides, but i also am keen to see the development of open source native drivers, so perhaps guides to this degree and to this point should be made, and amalgamated into one section suitable for publication in its own wiki pages, and avaiable on the main fedora websites?? NTFS, guide could still be done then, if written correctly, am i right in assuming this?? I think i need help, before ploughing into documentation, with such complex legal, or patent encumbered policies, and apologies for the seemingly rediculous arguements i have amde, it is simply just not enough to have aone or two docs on the subject, we need guides and recomendations on where to get this stuff (native drivers i mean) and if they are shippe,d how to active them. Mr Adam L Moreland (MAniX) | Registered Linux User: #417406 BA (Hons) Media Studies, 2nd Year, UoN WEB: http://www.manix-place.co.uk BLOG:http://www.2welshmen-and-a-sheep.co.uk **** System: Pentium 4 SKT478 2.8GHz Precott, AMD Athlon XP-M 2800+ | GPG Key: AC230C32 **** pub 1024D/AC230C32 2006-05-21 Key fingerprint = 14F4 50F5 806C 25A5 B33C C2BF 982C 87B7 AC23 0C32 uid Adam Moreland (MAniX) sub 2048g/A471FCE7 2006-05-21 **** >From: Rahul Sundaram >Reply-To: For participants of the Documentation Project > >To: For participants of the Documentation Project > >Subject: Re: Wireless Guide / NTFS Guide / New writing >Date: Mon, 03 Jul 2006 19:00:15 +0530 > >Adam Moreland wrote: > >>I am for such a thing. Also can i ask for some verification, as as far as >>i know, fedora dfoes ship with supports for some wireless NIC's and >>ndiswrapper is an open source program. In fact can i ask for clarification >>on the definition of wireless ebing restricted and prohibited. >> >>The usage of ndiswrapper is to allow proprietry software to intergrate >>into the kernel, but this seems not to be an issue in other distros and in >>fact fedora ships with support for some Intel wireless cards already. >>Surely for the sake of fedora this type of distinction (of wireless being >>forbidden) is rediculous. > > >Wireless is not forbidden. Ndiswrapper is. > >>After all it is an open source solution, using open source materials, to >>allow the open surce communtiy to have legal access to the drivers they >>already paid for once they purchased the wireless NIC. >> >>I cannot see how a guide on the usage of ndiswrapper (which is open >>source) cannot be achieved, so long as the guide doesnt explicitly promote >>the proprietry software. After all isnt this the point?? To intergrate the >>open source to merge the experience into one community solution?? Wireless >>is still a massive problem for Linux users, but i have guides for both >>SUSE 9.x/10.x and FC5. >> >>Please can i have clarification as to the reasons that ndiswrapper cannot >>be used in the fedora etras repo, and why the use of ndiswrapper >>contradicts the policy of fedora-docs on the use of proprietry means. I >>read the policy as meaning that you cannot use nVidia, as they make it, >>but ndiswrapper is a middle man, and is open source. We (linux community) >>have used the same workarounds to get Logitech keybaords, HP devices, most >>printers, laptops, speakers, sound cards, and other methods. The user need >>not support proprietry means, because by using the open source >>ndiswrapper, they are surely curcumventing the need to be protected by the >>policy on forbidding proprietry terms. >> >>I can see the huge gap caused by the lack of clarification from fedora on >>the use of such means like wireless, and also NTFS. The confusion is >>unwarrented surely. Cant there be a solution where the NTFS modules can be >>brought into fedora extras, and a guide be used accordingly. FAT32 is >>supported, and other forms and file systems, so why not NTFS, which has >>had a long history with fedora and is clearly completly open source. > >The explanation is given here at >http://www.redhat.com/archives/rhl-beta-list/2006-March/msg00395.html. >There are other technical reasons such as the issue of 4k stacks being the >default (http://lwn.net/Articles/160138/). Many of the windows drivers >would not work with Ndiswrapper since they require more than 16 k stacks in >the kernel. The only purpose of ndiswrapper is to enable the loading of >binary only modules within the kernel from a different platform. Fedora >will not formally support or endorse such efforts. > >If you the read the forbidden items page you would know that Fedora does >not provide any software that is patent encumbered. Merely having the >source does not satisfy all our requirements for inclusion. > >Rahul > >-- >fedora-docs-list mailing list >fedora-docs-list at redhat.com >To unsubscribe: https://www.redhat.com/mailman/listinfo/fedora-docs-list _________________________________________________________________ Be the first to hear what's new at MSN - sign up to our free newsletters! http://www.msn.co.uk/newsletters From stickster at gmail.com Mon Jul 3 14:30:25 2006 From: stickster at gmail.com (Paul W. Frields) Date: Mon, 03 Jul 2006 10:30:25 -0400 Subject: Wireless Guide / NTFS Guide / New writing In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <1151937025.2789.45.camel@localhost.localdomain> On Mon, 2006-07-03 at 14:17 +0000, Adam Moreland wrote: > NTFS, guide could still be done then, if written correctly, am i right in > assuming this?? I think i need help, before ploughing into documentation, > with such complex legal, or patent encumbered policies, and apologies for > the seemingly rediculous arguements i have amde, it is simply just not > enough to have aone or two docs on the subject, we need guides and > recomendations on where to get this stuff (native drivers i mean) and if > they are shippe,d how to active them. Speaking only for NTFS and an official FDP doc, I would say this should wait, just until we have a decision on the driver inclusion issue. Note that, as Patrick mentioned before, nothing stops you from working on this with a non-official group such as Fedora Unity. I don't think anyone can guarantee for you that your work could be made official until we have a decision on the main issue, which is including the NTFS kernel module itself. -- Paul W. Frields, RHCE http://paul.frields.org/ gpg fingerprint: 3DA6 A0AC 6D58 FEC4 0233 5906 ACDB C937 BD11 3717 Fedora Project Board: http://www.fedoraproject.org/wiki/Board Fedora Documentation Project: http://fedora.redhat.com/projects/docs/ -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: signature.asc Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 189 bytes Desc: This is a digitally signed message part URL: From fedora-docs at ddeutsch.net Mon Jul 3 16:41:37 2006 From: fedora-docs at ddeutsch.net (Debbie Deutsch) Date: Mon, 03 Jul 2006 12:41:37 -0400 Subject: Release notes beat wiki locked? In-Reply-To: <1151932421.2789.36.camel@localhost.localdomain> References: <44A8E638.2000700@fedoraproject.org> <1151932421.2789.36.camel@localhost.localdomain> Message-ID: <44A948C1.2020207@ddeutsch.net> Paul W. Frields wrote: > On Mon, 2006-07-03 at 15:11 +0530, Rahul Sundaram wrote: >> Not able to edit any pages in http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Docs/Beats/ >> and in that hierarchy. Would someone check this out. I plan to cover >> the FC6 test 2 release notes. > > According to the schedule[1] and associated discussions, the beats were > to freeze at 0000 UTC on 3 July for translation and such. Not that this > is particularly helpful, since I've seen barely any commits to the pages > from beat writers since test1. :-( > > I'm keeping an eye on my inbox for writes and do editorial passes as > they come in. > > = = = > [1] http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/DocsProject/Schedule > > I just discovered that I can't edit any draft documents in the wiki. Could this be related? It's a long weekend for me. I finally have a little time and figured I might be able to help with some edits. Debbie From kwade at redhat.com Mon Jul 3 19:20:20 2006 From: kwade at redhat.com (Karsten Wade) Date: Mon, 03 Jul 2006 12:20:20 -0700 Subject: Release notes beat wiki locked? In-Reply-To: <44A8E638.2000700@fedoraproject.org> References: <44A8E638.2000700@fedoraproject.org> Message-ID: <1151954420.2483.139.camel@erato.phig.org> On Mon, 2006-07-03 at 15:11 +0530, Rahul Sundaram wrote: > Hi > > Not able to edit any pages in http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Docs/Beats/ > and in that hierarchy. Would someone check this out. I plan to cover > the FC6 test 2 release notes. Looks like we got the ACLs goofed along the way, and that plus inherited ACLs was locking out all not in DocEditorsGroup. It should work now for all in EditGroup, with 'admin' rights saved for DocEditorsGroup. - Karsten -- Karsten Wade, RHCE, 108 Editor ^ Fedora Documentation Project Sr. Developer Relations Mgr. | fedoraproject.org/wiki/DocsProject quaid.108.redhat.com | gpg key: AD0E0C41 ////////////////////////////////// \\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\ -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: signature.asc Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 189 bytes Desc: This is a digitally signed message part URL: From kwade at redhat.com Mon Jul 3 19:23:06 2006 From: kwade at redhat.com (Karsten Wade) Date: Mon, 03 Jul 2006 12:23:06 -0700 Subject: Release notes beat wiki locked? In-Reply-To: <44A948C1.2020207@ddeutsch.net> References: <44A8E638.2000700@fedoraproject.org> <1151932421.2789.36.camel@localhost.localdomain> <44A948C1.2020207@ddeutsch.net> Message-ID: <1151954586.2483.143.camel@erato.phig.org> On Mon, 2006-07-03 at 12:41 -0400, Debbie Deutsch wrote: > I just discovered that I can't edit any draft documents in the wiki. > Could this be related? It's a long weekend for me. I finally have a > little time and figured I might be able to help with some edits. Similar cause, but unrelated. If you are in EditGroup, it should work for you now. - Karsten -- Karsten Wade, RHCE, 108 Editor ^ Fedora Documentation Project Sr. Developer Relations Mgr. | fedoraproject.org/wiki/DocsProject quaid.108.redhat.com | gpg key: AD0E0C41 ////////////////////////////////// \\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\ -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: signature.asc Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 189 bytes Desc: This is a digitally signed message part URL: From raven at pmail.pl Mon Jul 3 20:06:52 2006 From: raven at pmail.pl (=?UTF-8?B?IlBpb3RyIFwiUmF2ZW5cIiBEcsSFZyI=?=) Date: Mon, 03 Jul 2006 22:06:52 +0200 Subject: translation-quick-start-guide/po el.po, 1.4, 1.5 es.po, 1.5, 1.6 fr_FR.po, 1.1, 1.2 it.po, 1.5, 1.6 ja_JP.po, 1.2, 1.3 nl.po, 1.3, 1.4 pl.po, 1.1, 1.2 pt.po, 1.9, 1.10 pt_BR.po, 1.3, 1.4 ru.po, 1.6, 1.7 translation-quick-start.pot, 1.5, 1.6 In-Reply-To: <200607031738.k63HcTDr017548@cvs-int.fedora.redhat.com> References: <200607031738.k63HcTDr017548@cvs-int.fedora.redhat.com> Message-ID: <44A978DC.8070903@pmail.pl> Paul W. Frields (pfrields) napisa?(a): > Author: pfrields > > Update of /cvs/docs/translation-quick-start-guide/po > In directory cvs-int.fedora.redhat.com:/tmp/cvs-serv17483/po > > Modified Files: > el.po es.po fr_FR.po it.po ja_JP.po nl.po pl.po pt.po pt_BR.po > ru.po translation-quick-start.pot > Log Message: > Fix information on building common files, new PO files for everyone :-) > It seems like pot file and all po files are broken. Bug in Makefile? -- Piotr "Raven" Dr?g http://pmail.pl/~raven/index.xhtml From raven at pmail.pl Mon Jul 3 20:18:41 2006 From: raven at pmail.pl (=?UTF-8?B?IlBpb3RyIFwiUmF2ZW5cIiBEcsSFZyI=?=) Date: Mon, 03 Jul 2006 22:18:41 +0200 Subject: translation-quick-start-guide/po el.po, 1.4, 1.5 es.po, 1.5, 1.6 fr_FR.po, 1.1, 1.2 it.po, 1.5, 1.6 ja_JP.po, 1.2, 1.3 nl.po, 1.3, 1.4 pl.po, 1.1, 1.2 pt.po, 1.9, 1.10 pt_BR.po, 1.3, 1.4 ru.po, 1.6, 1.7 translation-quick-start.pot, 1.5, 1.6 In-Reply-To: <44A978DC.8070903@pmail.pl> References: <200607031738.k63HcTDr017548@cvs-int.fedora.redhat.com> <44A978DC.8070903@pmail.pl> Message-ID: <44A97BA1.7020100@pmail.pl> Piotr "Raven" Dr?g napisa?(a): > Paul W. Frields (pfrields) napisa?(a): >> Author: pfrields >> >> Update of /cvs/docs/translation-quick-start-guide/po >> In directory cvs-int.fedora.redhat.com:/tmp/cvs-serv17483/po >> >> Modified Files: >> el.po es.po fr_FR.po it.po ja_JP.po nl.po pl.po pt.po pt_BR.po >> ru.po translation-quick-start.pot Log Message: >> Fix information on building common files, new PO files for everyone :-) >> > > It seems like pot file and all po files are broken. Bug in Makefile? > Hehe, I'm late exactly one minute. :) -- Piotr "Raven" Dr?g http://pmail.pl/~raven/index.xhtml From stickster at gmail.com Mon Jul 3 20:46:21 2006 From: stickster at gmail.com (Paul W. Frields) Date: Mon, 03 Jul 2006 16:46:21 -0400 Subject: translation-quick-start-guide/po el.po, 1.4, 1.5 es.po, 1.5, 1.6 fr_FR.po, 1.1, 1.2 it.po, 1.5, 1.6 ja_JP.po, 1.2, 1.3 nl.po, 1.3, 1.4 pl.po, 1.1, 1.2 pt.po, 1.9, 1.10 pt_BR.po, 1.3, 1.4 ru.po, 1.6, 1.7 translation-quick-start.pot, 1.5, 1.6 In-Reply-To: <44A97BA1.7020100@pmail.pl> References: <200607031738.k63HcTDr017548@cvs-int.fedora.redhat.com> <44A978DC.8070903@pmail.pl> <44A97BA1.7020100@pmail.pl> Message-ID: <1151959581.2789.54.camel@localhost.localdomain> On Mon, 2006-07-03 at 22:18 +0200, "Piotr \"Raven\" Dr?g" wrote: > Piotr "Raven" Dr?g napisa?(a): > > Hehe, I'm late exactly one minute. :) I just found the problem and fixed it in the Makefile.common (I think). Make sure you do a 'cvs up' on your docs-common/ module to get the changes. -- Paul W. Frields, RHCE http://paul.frields.org/ gpg fingerprint: 3DA6 A0AC 6D58 FEC4 0233 5906 ACDB C937 BD11 3717 Fedora Project Board: http://www.fedoraproject.org/wiki/Board Fedora Documentation Project: http://fedora.redhat.com/projects/docs/ -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: signature.asc Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 189 bytes Desc: This is a digitally signed message part URL: From dimitris at glezos.com Mon Jul 3 21:10:33 2006 From: dimitris at glezos.com (Dimitris Glezos) Date: Mon, 03 Jul 2006 22:10:33 +0100 Subject: Corrections/additions in common files from contributors? (was: translation-quick-start-guide/po el.po etc.) In-Reply-To: <1151959581.2789.54.camel@localhost.localdomain> References: <200607031738.k63HcTDr017548@cvs-int.fedora.redhat.com> <44A978DC.8070903@pmail.pl> <44A97BA1.7020100@pmail.pl> <1151959581.2789.54.camel@localhost.localdomain> Message-ID: <44A987C9.6050203@glezos.com> O/H Paul W. Frields ??????: > I just found the problem and fixed it in the Makefile.common (I think). > Make sure you do a 'cvs up' on your docs-common/ module to get the > changes. Paul, good work today, we needed these additions. ;) Just a quick question. I just found something that needs correction in the pot file (1). In such cases, should we go forward, correct it and produce the new .po files or should we send an email to the list so that you will handle it? -Dim ^1 : Line 467 of TQSG.pot, word "are" needs correction to "is". I attached a patch for the correction in case the second is the answer to my question. -- Dimitris Glezos Jabber ID: glezos at jabber.org, GPG: 0xA5A04C3B http://dimitris.glezos.com/ "He who gives up functionality for ease of use loses both and deserves neither." (Anonymous) -- -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: translation-quick-start.pot.patch Type: text/x-patch Size: 779 bytes Desc: not available URL: From noriko at redhat.com Mon Jul 3 22:38:40 2006 From: noriko at redhat.com (Noriko Mizumoto) Date: Tue, 04 Jul 2006 08:38:40 +1000 Subject: translation-quick-start-guide into Japanese In-Reply-To: <1151676951.11710.3.camel@localhost.localdomain> References: <44A226AA.7030208@redhat.com> <1151523217.18221.18.camel@localhost.localdomain> <44A33F89.3010603@redhat.com> <1151676951.11710.3.camel@localhost.localdomain> Message-ID: <44A99C70.1070009@redhat.com> Paul W. Frields wrote: > On Thu, 2006-06-29 at 12:48 +1000, Noriko Mizumoto wrote: > >>Paul W. Frields wrote: >> >>>On Wed, 2006-06-28 at 16:50 +1000, Noriko Mizumoto wrote: >>> >>> >>>>Hi >>>> >>>>I've translated the above guide and built html. >>>>The html has been successfully built but only one para shows up in >>>>English, which is; >>>> >>>> To participate in the Fedora Project as a translator you need an >>>>account. You can apply for an account at >>>url="http://i18n.redhat.com/cgi-bin/i18n-signup/"/>. You need to provide >>>>a user name, an email address, a target language most likely your native >>>>language and the public part of your SSH key. >>>> >>>>This para is coming from >>>>cvs.fedoraproject.org:/cvs/docs/transaltion-quick-start-guide/po/ja_JP.po. >>>>I am using Kbabel, and this para has been fully translated. >>>> >>>>Anyone know how to fix? >>> >>>When I build your translation, everything is complete. Make sure you >>>have updated your docs-common/ module, and then in your >>>translation-quick-start-guide/ module, run "make distclean" and then >>>"make html-ja_JP" again. Does the error still persist? >>> >> >>It is excellent news thank you! >>Then now I might need someone for proofreading. >> >>Bad news is still I am getting incomplete built. >>I've cvs up'd docs-common/, run make distclean at >>transaltion-quick-start-guide/, then make html-ja_JP again. >>Everything beautifully shows up in Japanese except only this para but >>this para in English... > > > Hi Noriko, > > I can't seem to duplicate your error here. The document translates > completely here. I would recommend doing the following: > > 1. Completely remove your local copy of the > translation-quick-start-guide/ module, and the docs-common/ module. > 2. Use CVS to checkout fresh copies. > 3. Try to build again (make html-ja_JP). > > I'm sure the answer is probably something simple we've both missed, most > likely an out of date entity file that's out of sync with the updated > build process. The above is a safe and easy way to make sure you're > using the same material I am. Let me know how you fare. > Hi Paul The above did not work on my rhel4 machine. As you pointed out on irc, I've tried on fc5. And yes, it does work :) rhel4 machine has got the version 0.1 of gnome-docs-utils installed manually, this might be a problem as well. Thank you for kind help noriko From fedora-docs at ddeutsch.net Mon Jul 3 22:46:52 2006 From: fedora-docs at ddeutsch.net (Debbie Deutsch) Date: Mon, 03 Jul 2006 18:46:52 -0400 Subject: Release notes beat wiki locked? In-Reply-To: <1151954586.2483.143.camel@erato.phig.org> References: <44A8E638.2000700@fedoraproject.org> <1151932421.2789.36.camel@localhost.localdomain> <44A948C1.2020207@ddeutsch.net> <1151954586.2483.143.camel@erato.phig.org> Message-ID: <44A99E5C.6080501@ddeutsch.net> Karsten Wade wrote: > On Mon, 2006-07-03 at 12:41 -0400, Debbie Deutsch wrote: > >> I just discovered that I can't edit any draft documents in the wiki. >> Could this be related? It's a long weekend for me. I finally have a >> little time and figured I might be able to help with some edits. > > Similar cause, but unrelated. > > If you are in EditGroup, it should work for you now. > > - Karsten > Thanks. I can now edit. Debbie From Tommy.Reynolds at MegaCoder.com Tue Jul 4 02:33:33 2006 From: Tommy.Reynolds at MegaCoder.com (Tommy Reynolds) Date: Mon, 3 Jul 2006 21:33:33 -0500 Subject: Fwd: new writer intro In-Reply-To: References: <31082880.1151682889934.JavaMail.root@elwamui-darkeyed.atl.sa.earthlink.net> <1151695409.23162.11.camel@localhost.localdomain> Message-ID: <20060703213333.c23cfb43.Tommy.Reynolds@MegaCoder.com> > Hi Ria! Nice to meet you, and it sounds like you have a lot of skills > to offer. /me gets cold-chill premonition of things to come... > > Writing - I've done some sports writing. I won't be useful for > > translation because English (South Eastern US dialect, y'all) is the > > only language I know. Bad on me. I'm told that I'm good at > > translating tech talk for managers. > > Great, you can translate whatever Tommy (megacoder, our resident > programming genius) says, since I think he's also a Southerner. I'm in > Virginia, but I'm just as close to DC as Richmond, which I think > nowadays makes me a Yankee. But I do love sweet tea. Paul, I'm an Alabama native; you don't get more Southern than that. I'll forego speculation about your damnyankeeness and ask just one question: does that tea have lemon or lemon juice in it ;-) Rai, seddown tekyer shoesoffun sittaspell. Mekyersel t'home. > We hang around IRC on #fedora-docs and you are more than welcome there, > just drop in and introduce yourself. Yes, Rai, you are indeed welcome. I'm looking forward to meeting you over on #fedora-docs. Pick a topic or ask for a suggested assignment. Gottanuf t'go arund. -- I'm already an anomaly, I shall soon be an anachronism, and I have every intention of dying an abuse! From stickster at gmail.com Tue Jul 4 03:19:44 2006 From: stickster at gmail.com (Paul W. Frields) Date: Mon, 03 Jul 2006 23:19:44 -0400 Subject: Corrections/additions in common files from contributors? (was: translation-quick-start-guide/po el.po etc.) In-Reply-To: <44A987C9.6050203@glezos.com> References: <200607031738.k63HcTDr017548@cvs-int.fedora.redhat.com> <44A978DC.8070903@pmail.pl> <44A97BA1.7020100@pmail.pl> <1151959581.2789.54.camel@localhost.localdomain> <44A987C9.6050203@glezos.com> Message-ID: <1151983184.2789.58.camel@localhost.localdomain> On Mon, 2006-07-03 at 22:10 +0100, Dimitris Glezos wrote: > O/H Paul W. Frields ??????: > > I just found the problem and fixed it in the Makefile.common (I think). > > Make sure you do a 'cvs up' on your docs-common/ module to get the > > changes. > > Paul, > > good work today, we needed these additions. ;) > > Just a quick question. I just found something that needs correction in > the pot file (1). In such cases, should we go forward, correct it and > produce the new .po files or should we send an email to the list so that > you will handle it? Heh, that would be a problem in the original en_US version; I've corrected it and updated the POT and PO files. Sorry about that! -- Paul W. Frields, RHCE http://paul.frields.org/ gpg fingerprint: 3DA6 A0AC 6D58 FEC4 0233 5906 ACDB C937 BD11 3717 Fedora Project Board: http://www.fedoraproject.org/wiki/Board Fedora Documentation Project: http://fedora.redhat.com/projects/docs/ -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: signature.asc Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 189 bytes Desc: This is a digitally signed message part URL: From stickster at gmail.com Tue Jul 4 03:33:36 2006 From: stickster at gmail.com (Paul W. Frields) Date: Mon, 03 Jul 2006 23:33:36 -0400 Subject: Updated Server Guide for Fedora Core 5 In-Reply-To: <44A7BD43.5030402@brennan.id.au> References: <44A4BF27.9070807@brennan.id.au> <1151674153.10189.23.camel@localhost.localdomain> <1151772672.26046.20.camel@localhost.localdomain> <44A7BD43.5030402@brennan.id.au> Message-ID: <1151984016.2789.64.camel@localhost.localdomain> Sorry Miles, I forgot to respond to this: On Sun, 2006-07-02 at 22:34 +1000, Miles Brennan wrote: > Paul W. Frields wrote: > >>> 1. The document is licensed as CC BY-NC-SA, so you would need to > >>> relicense it as OPL 1.0 [2] for the Fedora Documentation Project to use > >>> it. > > I've had a read of the OPL, am I able to choose options with the license? We use the OPL without any additional options (in fact, we *can't* really use it with the addition of any of the options). > The document didn't get submitted last year because I didn't have time > to bring it up to the latest version (FC4) and to then start preparing > for the next revision before it's scheduled release. > > May I suggest that we possibly prepare this document "as is" for FC5, > obvioulsy fixing any major technicalities, and then start working on the > next revision ready for the final release of FC6. This may also allow me > time to finish off the extra 3 chapters on my TODO list. > > My wiki account is "MilesBrennan" and my cvsdocs is "mbrennan" (waiting > approval). > I hope you have a good backup, I have used neither of these before ;-) If your wiki account is in the EditGroup, please feel free to start dumping your work into Docs/Drafts! If you're not, stop by IRC #fedora-docs or post here and we'll get you in there. I saw some of the work on the MoinMoin <-> DocBook conversion today, and it was pretty exciting. That will make any drop into CVS esaier later. -- Paul W. Frields, RHCE http://paul.frields.org/ gpg fingerprint: 3DA6 A0AC 6D58 FEC4 0233 5906 ACDB C937 BD11 3717 Fedora Project Board: http://www.fedoraproject.org/wiki/Board Fedora Documentation Project: http://fedora.redhat.com/projects/docs/ -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: signature.asc Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 189 bytes Desc: This is a digitally signed message part URL: From mvirkkil at cc.hut.fi Tue Jul 4 05:15:16 2006 From: mvirkkil at cc.hut.fi (=?ISO-8859-1?Q?Mikko_Virkkil=E4?=) Date: Tue, 4 Jul 2006 08:15:16 +0300 (EEST) Subject: The moin->docbook conversion Message-ID: I'm a Google Summer of Code 2006 student working on improving the way moin can handle docbook. I'm wrapping up the first stage which was about going from a wikipage to docbook. The test wiki is at http://docbook.wikiwikiweb.de Feel free to try it out. Some stuff in the http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/DocsProject/WritingUsingTheWiki don't apply to this wiki: * WikiNames get converted in to complete urls * FootNote macro works * Include macro works, but a new similar macro called Insert is preferred. * TableOfContents-macro gets automatically ignored * Admonition-macro for generating admonitions. I have still some minor code cleaning to do, but this part should be feature complete. Please don't hesitate to report bugs directly to me. Next I'll start working on converting a docbook to the moin-syntax. Cheers, Mikko From nman64 at n-man.com Tue Jul 4 09:45:51 2006 From: nman64 at n-man.com (Patrick W. Barnes) Date: Tue, 4 Jul 2006 04:45:51 -0500 Subject: Fedora Documentation Style Guide Message-ID: <200607040445.56162.nman64@n-man.com> Between the assorted websites and documents of the Fedora Project, we have many different writing styles in use, and we have many documents that have different styles within them or contain many simple errors. Our established Documentation Guide features a chapter on style, but it doesn't go into the sort of depth that we really need, and I don't know that it really should. As such, I have begun work on a new Fedora Documentation Style Guide. This will become a comprehensive guide to style that will answer many questions, including some that haven't even been asked, about the writing style that should be used for Fedora's documentation and websites. http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/DocsProject/StyleGuide I intend to refer heavily to the Associated Press Stylebook, the Chicago Manual of Style, the existing Documentation Guide, the GNOME Documentation Style Guide, the style guides of a few universities and assorted other resources. At this time, I would be happy to accept specific suggestions for this guide. I'll be bringing questions to this list as I get further into the writing. There are a few style decisions that I believe we should make as a team. At first, this document will probably reflect my own writing style very strongly, so if anything about my writing style bothers you, now is the time to point it out to me. ;-) One of the first points we might address would be the proper location of punctuation with quotations or parenthesis. I often place periods and commas outside of such blocks (like this), rather than inside. I find this better suited for technical writing, since it avoids accidental inclusion of that punctuation where it doesn't belong, but I realize that it is a bit non-standard. When the punctuation is actually a part of the block, I do include it inside the block, because that's "doing the right thing." Thoughts? I was a bit torn about where to put this draft, and selected a sub-page of the DocsProject page. It can be moved later, but I felt that this was the most appropriate location, since this document will be targeted at the Documentation team and not at the community as a whole. If others have competing viewpoints, I don't have my heart set on this location. ;-) -- Patrick "The N-Man" Barnes nman64 at n-man.com http://www.n-man.com/ LinkedIn: http://www.linkedin.com/in/nman64 Have I been helpful? Rate my assistance! http://rate.affero.net/nman64/ -- -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 189 bytes Desc: not available URL: From edward.haddock at hawaiiantel.net Tue Jul 4 17:46:55 2006 From: edward.haddock at hawaiiantel.net (Edward Haddock) Date: Tue, 04 Jul 2006 07:46:55 -1000 Subject: Fedora Documentation Style Guide In-Reply-To: <200607040445.56162.nman64@n-man.com> References: <200607040445.56162.nman64@n-man.com> Message-ID: <1152035215.2952.7.camel@localhost.localdomain> On Tue, 2006-07-04 at 04:45 -0500, Patrick W. Barnes wrote: > Between the assorted websites and documents of the Fedora Project, we have > many different writing styles in use, and we have many documents that have > different styles within them or contain many simple errors. Our established > Documentation Guide features a chapter on style, but it doesn't go into the > sort of depth that we really need, and I don't know that it really should. > > As such, I have begun work on a new Fedora Documentation Style Guide. This > will become a comprehensive guide to style that will answer many questions, > including some that haven't even been asked, about the writing style that > should be used for Fedora's documentation and websites. > > http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/DocsProject/StyleGuide > > I intend to refer heavily to the Associated Press Stylebook, the Chicago > Manual of Style, the existing Documentation Guide, the GNOME Documentation > Style Guide, the style guides of a few universities and assorted other > resources. > > At this time, I would be happy to accept specific suggestions for this guide. > I'll be bringing questions to this list as I get further into the writing. > There are a few style decisions that I believe we should make as a team. At > first, this document will probably reflect my own writing style very > strongly, so if anything about my writing style bothers you, now is the time > to point it out to me. ;-) > > One of the first points we might address would be the proper location of > punctuation with quotations or parenthesis. I often place periods and commas > outside of such blocks (like this), rather than inside. I find this better > suited for technical writing, since it avoids accidental inclusion of that > punctuation where it doesn't belong, but I realize that it is a bit > non-standard. When the punctuation is actually a part of the block, I do > include it inside the block, because that's "doing the right thing." > Thoughts? > > I was a bit torn about where to put this draft, and selected a sub-page of the > DocsProject page. It can be moved later, but I felt that this was the most > appropriate location, since this document will be targeted at the > Documentation team and not at the community as a whole. If others have > competing viewpoints, I don't have my heart set on this location. ;-) Aloha, I have been working on the Documentation guide specifically on the section that deals with setting up accounts and the tool chain. Maybe this could be added to the Documentation guide as a reference or primer on how to write with a style fro the Documentation Project. http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/DocsProject/DocumentationGuide Together the two would give new volunteers the needed information on how to setup and use accounts and mail lists and show them a broad sense of style to help maintain a consistency throughout the Documentation. There is Section VII which is labeled Style Guidelines. On that same page I did section II. B. but I can't figure out how to get the numbers to carry on correctly after the Code piece. Any thoughts or suggestions would be much appreciated. Mahalo, Edward > > -- > Patrick "The N-Man" Barnes > nman64 at n-man.com > > http://www.n-man.com/ > > LinkedIn: > http://www.linkedin.com/in/nman64 > > Have I been helpful? Rate my assistance! > http://rate.affero.net/nman64/ > -- > fedora-docs-list mailing list > fedora-docs-list at redhat.com > To unsubscribe: > https://www.redhat.com/mailman/listinfo/fedora-docs-list -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: signature.asc Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 189 bytes Desc: This is a digitally signed message part URL: From stickster at gmail.com Tue Jul 4 18:38:38 2006 From: stickster at gmail.com (Paul W. Frields) Date: Tue, 04 Jul 2006 14:38:38 -0400 Subject: Fedora Documentation Style Guide In-Reply-To: <200607040445.56162.nman64@n-man.com> References: <200607040445.56162.nman64@n-man.com> Message-ID: <1152038318.1694.26.camel@localhost.localdomain> On Tue, 2006-07-04 at 04:45 -0500, Patrick W. Barnes wrote: > As such, I have begun work on a new Fedora Documentation Style Guide. This > will become a comprehensive guide to style that will answer many questions, > including some that haven't even been asked, about the writing style that > should be used for Fedora's documentation and websites. > > http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/DocsProject/StyleGuide > > I intend to refer heavily to the Associated Press Stylebook, the Chicago > Manual of Style, the existing Documentation Guide, the GNOME Documentation > Style Guide, the style guides of a few universities and assorted other > resources. Thanks for taking this up, Patrick, I never had enough time to get it off the ground. I do have some notes around here somewhere, I think, noting some specific use cases that I kept (keep?) seeing. We may want to address them in a FAQ section if they're not sufficiently covered elsewhere. > At this time, I would be happy to accept specific suggestions for this guide. > I'll be bringing questions to this list as I get further into the writing. > There are a few style decisions that I believe we should make as a team. At > first, this document will probably reflect my own writing style very > strongly, so if anything about my writing style bothers you, now is the time > to point it out to me. ;-) Actually, you're far and away one of the better writers I've seen, judging not only from your email but also your output on the wiki. I can't think of a better individual to work on this guide. > One of the first points we might address would be the proper location of > punctuation with quotations or parenthesis. I often place periods and commas > outside of such blocks (like this), rather than inside. I find this better > suited for technical writing, since it avoids accidental inclusion of that > punctuation where it doesn't belong, but I realize that it is a bit > non-standard. When the punctuation is actually a part of the block, I do > include it inside the block, because that's "doing the right thing." > Thoughts? My understanding of accepted usage is as follows: * The rules of Standard Written English[1] apply unless inclusion of punctuation would obscure the technical content, such as shell syntax. ** SWE dictates that punctuation goes outside parentheticals, and inside quotation marks. Thus (to illustrate), sayeth the so-called "writer." ** Technical clarity requires that punctuation not be grouped with items like command syntax. For instance, you wouldn't put the full-stop in with the command "ls -la". I think that's the same thing you're saying, correct? DocBook XML makes a lot of this easier, since punctuation no longer has to be used to separate command syntax and the like from the SWE. > I was a bit torn about where to put this draft, and selected a sub-page of the > DocsProject page. It can be moved later, but I felt that this was the most > appropriate location, since this document will be targeted at the > Documentation team and not at the community as a whole. If others have > competing viewpoints, I don't have my heart set on this location. ;-) Sounds OK to me. I doubt we would ever get everyone who writes on the wiki to ingest and practice all the style guidance anyway. :-D Aha! I found my cache of style notes: http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/DocsProject/DocumentationGuide/StyleToDo Hope that helps some. = = = [1] I use the term SWE as a placeholder for "Standard Written {insert-your-language-here}." -- Paul W. Frields, RHCE http://paul.frields.org/ gpg fingerprint: 3DA6 A0AC 6D58 FEC4 0233 5906 ACDB C937 BD11 3717 Fedora Project Board: http://www.fedoraproject.org/wiki/Board Fedora Documentation Project: http://fedora.redhat.com/projects/docs/ -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: signature.asc Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 189 bytes Desc: This is a digitally signed message part URL: From kwade at redhat.com Tue Jul 4 20:13:34 2006 From: kwade at redhat.com (Karsten Wade) Date: Tue, 04 Jul 2006 13:13:34 -0700 Subject: The moin->docbook conversion In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <1152044014.16657.58.camel@erato.phig.org> On Tue, 2006-07-04 at 08:15 +0300, Mikko Virkkil? wrote: > I'm a Google Summer of Code 2006 student working on improving the way moin > can handle docbook. > > I'm wrapping up the first stage which was about going from a wikipage to docbook. > > The test wiki is at http://docbook.wikiwikiweb.de We'll test it out a little later with the content from fp.org/wiki/Docs/Beats. Just have to decide if we should do the changes (below) on the canonical or in the copy on wikiwikiweb.de. I _think_ it makes sense to use the new syntax all over, since we are using your new changes to output to XML for the release notes.. There is not enough time to get the release notes beat writers to use the new syntax for the FC6 test2 release, but we can get it changed over for the test3 release. There, answered my own question -- we're switching to the new syntax and macro needs, even if they don't work on the fp.org Wiki. Note to others -- Mikko and I discussed the formatting (indenting) of the XML; since we already use xmlformat to clean it up, we're going to include that as part of the toolchain/process for outputting XML from the Wiki. He is using xmllint to verify, so it should be clean XML and cause no problems going through xmlformat. cheers - Karsten > Feel free to try it out. > > Some stuff in the > http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/DocsProject/WritingUsingTheWiki don't apply > to this wiki: > * WikiNames get converted in to complete urls > * FootNote macro works > * Include macro works, but a new similar macro called Insert is > preferred. > * TableOfContents-macro gets automatically ignored > * Admonition-macro for generating admonitions. > > > I have still some minor code cleaning to do, but this part should be > feature complete. Please don't hesitate to report bugs directly to me. > > Next I'll start working on converting a docbook to the moin-syntax. > > Cheers, > Mikko > -- Karsten Wade, RHCE, 108 Editor ^ Fedora Documentation Project Sr. Developer Relations Mgr. | fedoraproject.org/wiki/DocsProject quaid.108.redhat.com | gpg key: AD0E0C41 ////////////////////////////////// \\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\ -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: signature.asc Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 189 bytes Desc: This is a digitally signed message part URL: From nman64 at n-man.com Wed Jul 5 06:53:03 2006 From: nman64 at n-man.com (Patrick W. Barnes) Date: Wed, 5 Jul 2006 01:53:03 -0500 Subject: Fedora Documentation Style Guide In-Reply-To: <1152035215.2952.7.camel@localhost.localdomain> References: <200607040445.56162.nman64@n-man.com> <1152035215.2952.7.camel@localhost.localdomain> Message-ID: <200607050153.06989.nman64@n-man.com> On Tuesday 04 July 2006 12:46, Edward Haddock wrote: > I have been working on the Documentation guide specifically on the > section that deals with setting up accounts and the tool chain. Maybe > this could be added to the Documentation guide as a reference or primer > on how to write with a style fro the Documentation Project. > http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/DocsProject/DocumentationGuide > Together the two would give new volunteers the needed information on > how to setup and use accounts and mail lists and show them a broad sense > of style to help maintain a consistency throughout the Documentation. > There is Section VII which is labeled Style Guidelines. > On that same page I did section II. B. but I can't figure out how to > get the numbers to carry on correctly after the Code piece. Any thoughts > or suggestions would be much appreciated. My goal with the Style Guide is a much larger and more detailed guide than we would want to include as part of the Documentation Guide. I do feel that the Documentation Guide should continue to carry a chapter on style, and I think using the Style Guide as a base in creating that chapter is a good idea. The Documentation Guide could carry a brief overview of what the Style Guide is and how it is valuable. It could also summarize the key aspects of the Style Guide, but it could simply point readers to the Style Guide for the more extensive style information. I've also taken the liberty of fixing the numbering for you. The trick is to place whitespace ahead of the tables or code blocks, just like you do with the various numbered list elements. I. Subject One 1. First Thing {{{ code }}} 1. Second Thing I. Subject Two || Table || 1. First Element 1. Second Element ... -- Patrick "The N-Man" Barnes nman64 at n-man.com http://www.n-man.com/ LinkedIn: http://www.linkedin.com/in/nman64 Have I been helpful? Rate my assistance! http://rate.affero.net/nman64/ -- -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 189 bytes Desc: not available URL: From nman64 at n-man.com Wed Jul 5 07:09:32 2006 From: nman64 at n-man.com (Patrick W. Barnes) Date: Wed, 5 Jul 2006 02:09:32 -0500 Subject: Fedora Documentation Style Guide In-Reply-To: <1152038318.1694.26.camel@localhost.localdomain> References: <200607040445.56162.nman64@n-man.com> <1152038318.1694.26.camel@localhost.localdomain> Message-ID: <200607050209.35512.nman64@n-man.com> On Tuesday 04 July 2006 13:38, "Paul W. Frields" wrote: > > Thanks for taking this up, Patrick, I never had enough time to get it > off the ground. I do have some notes around here somewhere, I think, > noting some specific use cases that I kept (keep?) seeing. We may want > to address them in a FAQ section if they're not sufficiently covered > elsewhere. If they're issues that you've really noticed on a regular basis, they'll probably get more coverage than just a FAQ item. ;-) > > > At this time, I would be happy to accept specific suggestions for this > > guide. I'll be bringing questions to this list as I get further into the > > writing. There are a few style decisions that I believe we should make as > > a team. At first, this document will probably reflect my own writing > > style very strongly, so if anything about my writing style bothers you, > > now is the time to point it out to me. ;-) > > Actually, you're far and away one of the better writers I've seen, > judging not only from your email but also your output on the wiki. I > can't think of a better individual to work on this guide. Thank you, kind sir. Still, writing styles vary greatly, and that's not to say that any are right or wrong, but I would love to hear suggestions from those who might use writing styles that are different from my own. > > > One of the first points we might address would be the proper location of > > punctuation with quotations or parenthesis. I often place periods and > > commas outside of such blocks (like this), rather than inside. I find > > this better suited for technical writing, since it avoids accidental > > inclusion of that punctuation where it doesn't belong, but I realize that > > it is a bit non-standard. When the punctuation is actually a part of the > > block, I do include it inside the block, because that's "doing the right > > thing." Thoughts? > > My understanding of accepted usage is as follows: > > * The rules of Standard Written English[1] apply unless inclusion of > punctuation would obscure the technical content, such as shell syntax. > > ** SWE dictates that punctuation goes outside parentheticals, and inside > quotation marks. Thus (to illustrate), sayeth the so-called "writer." > > ** Technical clarity requires that punctuation not be grouped with items > like command syntax. For instance, you wouldn't put the full-stop in > with the command "ls -la". > > I think that's the same thing you're saying, correct? DocBook XML makes > a lot of this easier, since punctuation no longer has to be used to > separate command syntax and the like from the SWE. Agreed on all points. > > > I was a bit torn about where to put this draft, and selected a sub-page > > of the DocsProject page. It can be moved later, but I felt that this was > > the most appropriate location, since this document will be targeted at > > the Documentation team and not at the community as a whole. If others > > have competing viewpoints, I don't have my heart set on this location. > > ;-) > > Sounds OK to me. I doubt we would ever get everyone who writes on the > wiki to ingest and practice all the style guidance anyway. :-D At least it will still be available to anyone who cares. :-) > > Aha! I found my cache of style notes: > > http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/DocsProject/DocumentationGuide/StyleToDo > > Hope that helps some. Excellent... -- Patrick "The N-Man" Barnes nman64 at n-man.com http://www.n-man.com/ LinkedIn: http://www.linkedin.com/in/nman64 Have I been helpful? Rate my assistance! http://rate.affero.net/nman64/ -- -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 189 bytes Desc: not available URL: From dimitris at glezos.com Wed Jul 5 11:47:01 2006 From: dimitris at glezos.com (Dimitris Glezos) Date: Wed, 05 Jul 2006 12:47:01 +0100 Subject: [Fwd: Translation FAQ needs update; CVS commands are erroneous.] Message-ID: <44ABA6B5.9080703@glezos.com> Forwarding a mail from Simos Xenitellis sent to the fedora-trans-list that probably interests fedora-docs list instead. -Dim -------- Original message -------- Subject: Translation FAQ needs update; CVS commands are erroneous. Date: Wed, 05 Jul 2006 12:35:14 +0100 From: Simos Xenitellis Reply: Fedora Translation Project List To: fedora-trans-list at redhat.com Hi All, There are some important typos in the Translation FAQ, CVS section. Specifically, it says that ==== Q: I have a working account, How do I ceckout the files from cvs server? Open a terminal and issue following commands: $ export CVS_RSH=ssh $ export CVSROOT=:ext:@i18n.redhat.com:/usr/local/CVS $ cvs -z9 co translate Q: What is the CVSROOT to check out the translation files? CVSROOT=:ext:@i18n.redhat.com:/usr/local/CVS ==== You will notice that the CVSROOT command do not specify the username. Why is that? Well, in the HTML code of the page you will notice CVSROOT=:ext:@i18n.redhat.com:/usr/local/CVS Firefox does not display the segment as it considers it as an unknown tag. Therefore, the above fragment of the FAQ should look like (HTML code): ====================

Q: I have a working account, How do I checkout the files from cvs server?

Open a terminal and issue following commands: 

$ export CVS_RSH=ssh
$ export CVSROOT=:ext:<your_login>@i18n.redhat.com:/usr/local/CVS
$ cvs -z9 co translate

Q: What is the CVSROOT to check out the translation files?

CVSROOT=:ext:<your_login>@i18n.redhat.com:/usr/local/CVS

===================== It's good to fix this issue as it might give pain to new translators. Thanks for A S Alam for helping out here. Simos -- Fedora-trans-list mailing list Fedora-trans-list at redhat.com https://www.redhat.com/mailman/listinfo/fedora-trans-list -- Dimitris Glezos Jabber ID: glezos at jabber.org, GPG: 0xA5A04C3B http://dimitris.glezos.com/ "He who gives up functionality for ease of use loses both and deserves neither." (Anonymous) -- From kwade at redhat.com Wed Jul 5 19:55:14 2006 From: kwade at redhat.com (Karsten Wade) Date: Wed, 05 Jul 2006 12:55:14 -0700 Subject: Make HTML encoding of docs UTF-8 In-Reply-To: <200607022251.56426.nman64@n-man.com> References: <44A7DE5B.7060602@glezos.com> <1151878437.30380.12.camel@localhost.localdomain> <200607022251.56426.nman64@n-man.com> Message-ID: <1152129315.16657.211.camel@erato.phig.org> On Sun, 2006-07-02 at 22:51 -0500, Patrick W. Barnes wrote: > I don't see any reason we couldn't use UTF-8 for the HTML documents, and I > would support making that change. IIRC, the issue we had in the past was that we were building UTF-8 but httpd on fedora.redhat.com was serving it as the (default) ISO-8859-1. This caused "funny characters" to appear only on pages built from our DocBook outputted HTML wrapped with the PHP includes. Is this not the case now? Or am I totally on the wrong path? - Karsten -- Karsten Wade, RHCE, 108 Editor ^ Fedora Documentation Project Sr. Developer Relations Mgr. | fedoraproject.org/wiki/DocsProject quaid.108.redhat.com | gpg key: AD0E0C41 ////////////////////////////////// \\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\ -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: signature.asc Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 189 bytes Desc: This is a digitally signed message part URL: From stickster at gmail.com Wed Jul 5 22:32:16 2006 From: stickster at gmail.com (Paul W. Frields) Date: Wed, 05 Jul 2006 18:32:16 -0400 Subject: RFC: Move rpm-info back into locale dirs Message-ID: <1152138736.14562.59.camel@localhost.localdomain> Some time ago, we kept rpm-info.xml in the ${PRI_LANG} locale directory. (For people not reading the Makefile.common regularly, ${PRI_LANG} is the folder where the "original" version of a doc lives; it's often en_US but can be any locale.) For some reason, probably a dumb idea on my part, we took it out into the top-level module directory for any doc. I believe (or, if you like, "see the light") that this file needs to return to the locale whence it came, to make translation easier for our most excellent cadre of volunteers. If its contents appear in the PO/POT files, it's one less annoying FDP-specific step they have to remember or take. This change will require a few fairly easy changes to Makefile.common that will break the build of any document that does not move its rpm-info.xml into the ${PRI_LANG} folder. We also have to figure out a way to get the translated titles/translation elements into the POT folders, although I suspect this would be a very minor amount of work compared to the effort we will save our translators in the long run. Comments welcome and appreciated. Silence gives consent. Absence makes the heart grow fonder. -- Paul W. Frields, RHCE http://paul.frields.org/ gpg fingerprint: 3DA6 A0AC 6D58 FEC4 0233 5906 ACDB C937 BD11 3717 Fedora Project Board: http://www.fedoraproject.org/wiki/Board Fedora Documentation Project: http://fedora.redhat.com/projects/docs/ -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: signature.asc Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 189 bytes Desc: This is a digitally signed message part URL: From hisdivineshadow at imap.cc Wed Jul 5 20:54:55 2006 From: hisdivineshadow at imap.cc (His Divine Shadow) Date: Wed, 5 Jul 2006 15:54:55 -0500 Subject: RFC: Move rpm-info back into locale dirs In-Reply-To: <1152138736.14562.59.camel@localhost.localdomain> References: <1152138736.14562.59.camel@localhost.localdomain> Message-ID: <20060705155455.479599f6.hisdivineshadow@imap.cc> Uttered "Paul W. Frields" , spake thus: > I believe (or, if you like, "see the light") that this file needs to > return to the locale whence it came, to make translation easier for our > most excellent cadre of volunteers. If its contents appear in the > PO/POT files, it's one less annoying FDP-specific step they have to > remember or take. As the person who put the rpm-info.xml file in the ${PRI_LANG} directory, cough cough, I think this is a good idea ;-) When we agreed to move this up to the document's base directory, I didn't disagree because the translatable elements in that file are each given their own "lang=foo" attribute. Stupid me. This arrangement makes it almost impossible to generate the boilerplate texts in a locale-specific manner. Not knowning much about the ".desktop" files and such, you know. Even a stupid man can see through a brick wall given enough time. > This change will require a few fairly easy changes to Makefile.common > that will break the build of any document that does not move its > rpm-info.xml into the ${PRI_LANG} folder. We also have to figure out a > way to get the translated titles/translation elements into the POT > folders, although I suspect this would be a very minor amount of work > compared to the effort we will save our translators in the long run. Yup, very minor. > Comments welcome and appreciated. Silence gives consent. Absence makes > the heart grow fonder. You wanna take a stab at this or do you want me to? I'd recommend that we revisit the DTD and remove all the "lang=foo" attributes to avoid downstream confusion. -- I'm already an anomaly, I shall soon be an anachronism, and I have every intention of dying an abuse! From edward.haddock at hawaiiantel.net Thu Jul 6 02:10:05 2006 From: edward.haddock at hawaiiantel.net (Edward Haddock) Date: Wed, 05 Jul 2006 16:10:05 -1000 Subject: Fedora Documentation Style Guide In-Reply-To: <200607050153.06989.nman64@n-man.com> References: <200607040445.56162.nman64@n-man.com> <1152035215.2952.7.camel@localhost.localdomain> <200607050153.06989.nman64@n-man.com> Message-ID: <1152151805.2872.5.camel@localhost.localdomain> On Wed, 2006-07-05 at 01:53 -0500, Patrick W. Barnes wrote: > On Tuesday 04 July 2006 12:46, Edward Haddock > wrote: > > I have been working on the Documentation guide specifically on the > > section that deals with setting up accounts and the tool chain. Maybe > > this could be added to the Documentation guide as a reference or primer > > on how to write with a style fro the Documentation Project. > > http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/DocsProject/DocumentationGuide > > Together the two would give new volunteers the needed information on > > how to setup and use accounts and mail lists and show them a broad sense > > of style to help maintain a consistency throughout the Documentation. > > There is Section VII which is labeled Style Guidelines. > > On that same page I did section II. B. but I can't figure out how to > > get the numbers to carry on correctly after the Code piece. Any thoughts > > or suggestions would be much appreciated. > > My goal with the Style Guide is a much larger and more detailed guide than we > would want to include as part of the Documentation Guide. I do feel that the > Documentation Guide should continue to carry a chapter on style, and I think > using the Style Guide as a base in creating that chapter is a good idea. The > Documentation Guide could carry a brief overview of what the Style Guide is > and how it is valuable. It could also summarize the key aspects of the Style > Guide, but it could simply point readers to the Style Guide for the more > extensive style information. Actually that sounds like an awesome idea. If you pass anything along to me I can try summarizing it best I can. My writing is not the best in the world and I am learning as I go. I am also quite new to Linux/Gnu and Fedora Core 5 so I am learning as I go there as well. I will work on Section VII if you would like to pass along Chapters to me. I will read them, hopefully learning and improving my own skill, then summarize and add them to the Documentation Guide. Sound like a plan? > I've also taken the liberty of fixing the numbering for you. The trick is to > place whitespace ahead of the tables or code blocks, just like you do with > the various numbered list elements. > > I. Subject One > 1. First Thing > {{{ > code > }}} > 1. Second Thing > I. Subject Two > || Table || > 1. First Element > 1. Second Element > ... Many Mahalo's, Thank you in Hawaiian, for that. I looked at what you did and saw a few other things to fix. So I learned something new. :) Aloha, Edward > > -- > Patrick "The N-Man" Barnes > nman64 at n-man.com > > http://www.n-man.com/ > > LinkedIn: > http://www.linkedin.com/in/nman64 > > Have I been helpful? Rate my assistance! > http://rate.affero.net/nman64/ > -- > fedora-docs-list mailing list > fedora-docs-list at redhat.com > To unsubscribe: > https://www.redhat.com/mailman/listinfo/fedora-docs-list -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: signature.asc Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 189 bytes Desc: This is a digitally signed message part URL: From nman64 at n-man.com Thu Jul 6 04:42:39 2006 From: nman64 at n-man.com (Patrick W. Barnes) Date: Wed, 5 Jul 2006 23:42:39 -0500 Subject: Make HTML encoding of docs UTF-8 In-Reply-To: <1152129315.16657.211.camel@erato.phig.org> References: <44A7DE5B.7060602@glezos.com> <200607022251.56426.nman64@n-man.com> <1152129315.16657.211.camel@erato.phig.org> Message-ID: <200607052342.41992.nman64@n-man.com> On Wednesday 05 July 2006 14:55, Karsten Wade wrote: > On Sun, 2006-07-02 at 22:51 -0500, Patrick W. Barnes wrote: > > I don't see any reason we couldn't use UTF-8 for the HTML documents, and > > I would support making that change. > > IIRC, the issue we had in the past was that we were building UTF-8 but > httpd on fedora.redhat.com was serving it as the (default) ISO-8859-1. > This caused "funny characters" to appear only on pages built from our > DocBook outputted HTML wrapped with the PHP includes. > > Is this not the case now? Or am I totally on the wrong path? > If we can't provide UTF-8, I'd call that a bug. If we decide to push UTF-8, then the Infrastructure team can make sure that the websites can support it. We can try switching to UTF-8 and take any issues that arise to Infrastructure for correction. -- Patrick "The N-Man" Barnes nman64 at n-man.com http://www.n-man.com/ LinkedIn: http://www.linkedin.com/in/nman64 Have I been helpful? Rate my assistance! http://rate.affero.net/nman64/ -- -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 189 bytes Desc: not available URL: From nman64 at n-man.com Thu Jul 6 04:43:41 2006 From: nman64 at n-man.com (Patrick W. Barnes) Date: Wed, 5 Jul 2006 23:43:41 -0500 Subject: Fedora Documentation Style Guide In-Reply-To: <1152151805.2872.5.camel@localhost.localdomain> References: <200607040445.56162.nman64@n-man.com> <200607050153.06989.nman64@n-man.com> <1152151805.2872.5.camel@localhost.localdomain> Message-ID: <200607052343.43306.nman64@n-man.com> On Wednesday 05 July 2006 21:10, Edward Haddock wrote: > Actually that sounds like an awesome idea. If you pass anything along > to me I can try summarizing it best I can. My writing is not the best in > the world and I am learning as I go. I am also quite new to Linux/Gnu > and Fedora Core 5 so I am learning as I go there as well. I will work on > Section VII if you would like to pass along Chapters to me. I will read > them, hopefully learning and improving my own skill, then summarize and > add them to the Documentation Guide. Sound like a plan? > Absolutely. :-) -- Patrick "The N-Man" Barnes nman64 at n-man.com http://www.n-man.com/ LinkedIn: http://www.linkedin.com/in/nman64 Have I been helpful? Rate my assistance! http://rate.affero.net/nman64/ -- -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 189 bytes Desc: not available URL: From hugo at devin.com.br Thu Jul 6 06:56:24 2006 From: hugo at devin.com.br (Hugo Cisneiros) Date: Thu, 6 Jul 2006 03:56:24 -0300 Subject: Fedora Gaming Writings: wesnoth Message-ID: <200607060356.24693.hugo@devin.com.br> Hi, Another game page was done: ? ?http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Games/wesnoth It needs: ? ?* English revision * More content (optional) Thanks! -- []'s Eitch http://www.devin.com.br/eitch/ "Talk is cheap. Show me the code." - Linus Torvalds From cpanceac at gmail.com Thu Jul 6 06:53:50 2006 From: cpanceac at gmail.com (cornel panceac) Date: Thu, 6 Jul 2006 09:53:50 +0300 Subject: Fedora Gaming Writings: wesnoth In-Reply-To: <200607060356.24693.hugo@devin.com.br> References: <200607060356.24693.hugo@devin.com.br> Message-ID: great! .. On 7/6/06, Hugo Cisneiros wrote: > > Hi, > > Another game page was done: > > http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Games/wesnoth > > It needs: > > * English revision > * More content (optional) > > Thanks! > > -- > []'s > Eitch > > http://www.devin.com.br/eitch/ > "Talk is cheap. Show me the code." - Linus Torvalds > > -- > fedora-docs-list mailing list > fedora-docs-list at redhat.com > To unsubscribe: > https://www.redhat.com/mailman/listinfo/fedora-docs-list > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From stickster at gmail.com Thu Jul 6 11:36:36 2006 From: stickster at gmail.com (Paul W. Frields) Date: Thu, 06 Jul 2006 07:36:36 -0400 Subject: RFC: Move rpm-info back into locale dirs In-Reply-To: <20060705155455.479599f6.hisdivineshadow@imap.cc> References: <1152138736.14562.59.camel@localhost.localdomain> <20060705155455.479599f6.hisdivineshadow@imap.cc> Message-ID: <1152185796.14562.76.camel@localhost.localdomain> On Wed, 2006-07-05 at 15:54 -0500, His Divine Shadow wrote: > Uttered "Paul W. Frields" , spake thus: > > > I believe (or, if you like, "see the light") that this file needs to > > return to the locale whence it came, to make translation easier for our > > most excellent cadre of volunteers. If its contents appear in the > > PO/POT files, it's one less annoying FDP-specific step they have to > > remember or take. > > As the person who put the rpm-info.xml file in the ${PRI_LANG} > directory, cough cough, I think this is a good idea ;-) When we > agreed to move this up to the document's base directory, I didn't > disagree because the translatable elements in that file are each > given their own "lang=foo" attribute. Yeah, this was before we entered the I18N/L10N era and saw the Brave New World of Translation. > Stupid me. "Who is more fool, the fool or the fool who follows him?" ;-D > This arrangement makes it almost impossible to generate the > boilerplate texts in a locale-specific manner. Not knowning much > about the ".desktop" files and such, you know. [...snip...] > > Comments welcome and appreciated. Silence gives consent. Absence makes > > the heart grow fonder. > > You wanna take a stab at this or do you want me to? I'd recommend > that we revisit the DTD and remove all the "lang=foo" attributes to > avoid downstream confusion. My thoughts exactly. Hmm... I just got a few new tasks added to my plate for the Board, so *if you have time* (which I know is a big "if" right now) I know it would take you less time to get it right. If you don't, I have some time to flail at this next week -- same routine, I'll send you a patch to look at. -- Paul W. Frields, RHCE http://paul.frields.org/ gpg fingerprint: 3DA6 A0AC 6D58 FEC4 0233 5906 ACDB C937 BD11 3717 Fedora Project Board: http://www.fedoraproject.org/wiki/Board Fedora Documentation Project: http://fedora.redhat.com/projects/docs/ -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: signature.asc Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 189 bytes Desc: This is a digitally signed message part URL: From dimitris at glezos.com Thu Jul 6 12:42:33 2006 From: dimitris at glezos.com (Dimitris Glezos) Date: Thu, 06 Jul 2006 13:42:33 +0100 Subject: Make HTML encoding of docs UTF-8 In-Reply-To: <200607052342.41992.nman64@n-man.com> References: <44A7DE5B.7060602@glezos.com> <200607022251.56426.nman64@n-man.com> <1152129315.16657.211.camel@erato.phig.org> <200607052342.41992.nman64@n-man.com> Message-ID: <44AD0539.2040205@glezos.com> O/H Patrick W. Barnes ??????: > On Wednesday 05 July 2006 14:55, Karsten Wade wrote: >> On Sun, 2006-07-02 at 22:51 -0500, Patrick W. Barnes wrote: >>> I don't see any reason we couldn't use UTF-8 for the HTML documents, and >>> I would support making that change. >> IIRC, the issue we had in the past was that we were building UTF-8 but >> httpd on fedora.redhat.com was serving it as the (default) ISO-8859-1. >> This caused "funny characters" to appear only on pages built from our >> DocBook outputted HTML wrapped with the PHP includes. >> >> Is this not the case now? Or am I totally on the wrong path? >> > > If we can't provide UTF-8, I'd call that a bug. If we decide to push UTF-8, > then the Infrastructure team can make sure that the websites can support it. > We can try switching to UTF-8 and take any issues that arise to > Infrastructure for correction. +1 -- Dimitris Glezos Jabber ID: glezos at jabber.org, PGP: 0xA5A04C3B http://dimitris.glezos.com/ "He who gives up functionality for ease of use loses both and deserves neither." (Anonymous) -- From nikosx at gmail.com Thu Jul 6 14:38:41 2006 From: nikosx at gmail.com (Nikos Charonitakis) Date: Thu, 6 Jul 2006 17:38:41 +0300 Subject: about-fedora.xml Message-ID: <9366c3f50607060738l4a2fcac5j480ec33f50daa8dd@mail.gmail.com> Hi i checked out release-notes from cvs and i finally found that "about fedora" menu entry resides in there. So there are two files: about-fedora.xml and about-fedora.menu Is these files covered by the usual translation procedure covered by Translation Quick Start Guide? I think no. So in which way translators can localize this document and add the appropriate localized menu entry? Nikos From Tommy.Reynolds at MegaCoder.com Thu Jul 6 14:40:54 2006 From: Tommy.Reynolds at MegaCoder.com (Tommy Reynolds) Date: Thu, 6 Jul 2006 09:40:54 -0500 Subject: RFC: Move rpm-info back into locale dirs In-Reply-To: <1152185796.14562.76.camel@localhost.localdomain> References: <1152138736.14562.59.camel@localhost.localdomain> <20060705155455.479599f6.hisdivineshadow@imap.cc> <1152185796.14562.76.camel@localhost.localdomain> Message-ID: <20060706094054.13ff0bb2.Tommy.Reynolds@MegaCoder.com> Uttered "Paul W. Frields" , spake thus: > My thoughts exactly. Hmm... I just got a few new tasks added to my > plate for the Board, so *if you have time* (which I know is a big "if" > right now) I know it would take you less time to get it right. If you > don't, I have some time to flail at this next week -- same routine, I'll > send you a patch to look at. Time is what I won't have much of for the next couple of weeks. Let me know before you attack this to see if I'm on it; if you don't get a quick reply just go ahead. Happy XSLT'ing. -- I'm already an anomaly, I shall soon be an anachronism, and I have every intention of dying an abuse! From dimitris at glezos.com Fri Jul 7 00:43:12 2006 From: dimitris at glezos.com (Dimitris Glezos) Date: Fri, 07 Jul 2006 01:43:12 +0100 Subject: String "Revision History" untranslatable In-Reply-To: <1151878233.30380.9.camel@localhost.localdomain> References: <44A7BF67.3050107@glezos.com> <1151878233.30380.9.camel@localhost.localdomain> Message-ID: <44ADAE20.9070308@glezos.com> O/H Paul W. Frields ??????: > On Sun, 2006-07-02 at 13:43 +0100, Dimitris Glezos wrote: >> Hi. >> >> I noticed that the string "Revision History" remains untranslated in the >> front page of the TQSD. It seems hardcoded in the xsl files. >> >> $ find . | xargs grep -o 'Revision History' >> ./docs-common/xsl/main-html.xsl:Revision History >> ./translation-quick-start-guide/translation-quick-start-el/index.html:Revision >> History >> >> $ grep 'Revision History' docs-common/xsl/main-html.xsl >> Revision History > > Hi Dimitris, > > You can translate this by editing the rpm-info.xml file directly in the > top level of each module. I was idly wondering the other day whether > this should move into the ${PRI_LANG} directory for ease of translation. > I seem to recall we had it that way when we started and moved it outside > for some reason. Maybe we didn't know what we were doing when we did? Paul, are you sure one can translate the actual string "Revision History" from inside rpm-info.xml? Not the revision history contents, just the string "Revision History". Quoting from my original message: > It seems hardcoded in the xsl files. > $ grep 'Revision History' docs-common/xsl/main-html.xsl > Revision History -Dim -- Dimitris Glezos Jabber ID: glezos at jabber.org, PGP: 0xA5A04C3B http://dimitris.glezos.com/ "He who gives up functionality for ease of use loses both and deserves neither." (Anonymous) -- From dimitris at glezos.com Fri Jul 7 00:55:08 2006 From: dimitris at glezos.com (Dimitris Glezos) Date: Fri, 07 Jul 2006 01:55:08 +0100 Subject: Guide on release notes translation? In-Reply-To: <44A32CA8.10103@glezos.com> References: <44A32CA8.10103@glezos.com> Message-ID: <44ADB0EC.1040102@glezos.com> I'm bringing this up again (CC:ing -trans-list), since I received no reply and FC6 is getting closer. Dimitris Glezos wrote: > I searched the wiki for a page explaining how the translation of the > beats work (or should work), but didn't find any. Is there any guide on how one should translate the release notes/beats? If not, could someone please write the steps one should follow? I know the situation with Beats, moin-to-xml export and relevant stuff are experimental, probably temporary and fragile, but there *should* be a way for translators to have more than some days to translate the 14.000-long release notes text. > Some other questions that come to my mind concerning the relnotes > translation: > > * Does the "release notes freeze day" mean that a translator can't (or > shouldn't) translate the .po file earlier? > * Is the 'release-notes/devel' cvs module updated from the wiki before > the freeze day so that we can star working on the translation before the > freeze day? > * If yes, how often? > * What's the best way to retain the translated parts of the older beats > without translating them again? > > If there is such a page (targeted for translators, not beat writers), > someone please point it out to me (sorry for not finding it). > > If not, then I believe such a page would be useful, because the > translation of the release notes are somewhat different from the rest of > the docs. > > Thanks. > > -Dim > -- Dimitris Glezos Jabber ID: glezos at jabber.org, PGP: 0xA5A04C3B http://dimitris.glezos.com/ "He who gives up functionality for ease of use loses both and deserves neither." (Anonymous) -- From stickster at gmail.com Fri Jul 7 03:13:46 2006 From: stickster at gmail.com (Paul W. Frields) Date: Thu, 06 Jul 2006 23:13:46 -0400 Subject: String "Revision History" untranslatable In-Reply-To: <44ADAE20.9070308@glezos.com> References: <44A7BF67.3050107@glezos.com> <1151878233.30380.9.camel@localhost.localdomain> <44ADAE20.9070308@glezos.com> Message-ID: <1152242027.13733.3.camel@localhost.localdomain> On Fri, 2006-07-07 at 01:43 +0100, Dimitris Glezos wrote: > O/H Paul W. Frields ??????: > > On Sun, 2006-07-02 at 13:43 +0100, Dimitris Glezos wrote: > >> Hi. > >> > >> I noticed that the string "Revision History" remains untranslated in the > >> front page of the TQSD. It seems hardcoded in the xsl files. > >> > >> $ find . | xargs grep -o 'Revision History' > >> ./docs-common/xsl/main-html.xsl:Revision History > >> ./translation-quick-start-guide/translation-quick-start-el/index.html:Revision > >> History > >> > >> $ grep 'Revision History' docs-common/xsl/main-html.xsl > >> Revision History > > > > Hi Dimitris, > > > > You can translate this by editing the rpm-info.xml file directly in the > > top level of each module. I was idly wondering the other day whether > > this should move into the ${PRI_LANG} directory for ease of translation. > > I seem to recall we had it that way when we started and moved it outside > > for some reason. Maybe we didn't know what we were doing when we did? > > Paul, are you sure one can translate the actual string "Revision > History" from inside rpm-info.xml? Not the revision history contents, > just the string "Revision History". > > Quoting from my original message: > > > It seems hardcoded in the xsl files. > > $ grep 'Revision History' docs-common/xsl/main-html.xsl > > Revision History Sorry Dim, I misunderstood your original message (I took "string" to mean "element" by not paying close enough attention). In fact, I am sure that one CANNOT translate that string, for the exact reason you provided. If you have a solution in mind, I'm all ears! -- Paul W. Frields, RHCE http://paul.frields.org/ gpg fingerprint: 3DA6 A0AC 6D58 FEC4 0233 5906 ACDB C937 BD11 3717 Fedora Project Board: http://www.fedoraproject.org/wiki/Board Fedora Documentation Project: http://fedora.redhat.com/projects/docs/ -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: signature.asc Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 189 bytes Desc: This is a digitally signed message part URL: From kwade at redhat.com Fri Jul 7 03:29:08 2006 From: kwade at redhat.com (Karsten Wade) Date: Thu, 06 Jul 2006 20:29:08 -0700 Subject: Content depth/breadth (was: Update of "Docs/Drafts/DesktopUserGuide/Multimedia" by CodyDeHaan]) Message-ID: <1152242949.16657.322.camel@erato.phig.org> > The following page has been changed by CodyDeHaan: > http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Docs/Drafts/DesktopUserGuide/Multimedia > > The comment on the change is: > Created. Writers, take a look and give input! > > New page: > = Playing Multimedia (Music & Video) = > > Fedora Core 5 includes tools for viewing video and listening to audio. > > 'WRITERS:' What do we do here? Multimedia already exists in the Wiki... I saw your comment in IRC as well, and I think you are referring to the existing content at Docs/Beats/Multimedia, right? The way to think about what is needed is to focus on the purpose of the document. Some of the same material may be covered, but the method is going to be different. The release notes, for example, are a compilation of interesting, useful, or crucial facts about a version/release. If your objective was to bake a loaf of bread, the release notes would tell you things such as: * Is the supplied flour white, wheat, or a blend? Is it all purpose or does it need additional gluten? * Where do you get the water for activating the yeast? The Desktop User Guide would instead be focused on answering the questions: * The steps for turning flour, water, yeast, and salt into bread. * How or why different kinds of ovens affect the baking. * How to modify the recipe if you have a different type of flour. /me quickly finishes and sends, after letting it sit on his desktop for a few days - Karsten -- Karsten Wade, RHCE, 108 Editor ^ Fedora Documentation Project Sr. Developer Relations Mgr. | fedoraproject.org/wiki/DocsProject quaid.108.redhat.com | gpg key: AD0E0C41 ////////////////////////////////// \\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\ -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: signature.asc Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 189 bytes Desc: This is a digitally signed message part URL: From menthos at menthos.com Fri Jul 7 15:51:52 2006 From: menthos at menthos.com (Christian Rose) Date: Fri, 7 Jul 2006 17:51:52 +0200 Subject: about-fedora.xml In-Reply-To: <9366c3f50607060738l4a2fcac5j480ec33f50daa8dd@mail.gmail.com> References: <9366c3f50607060738l4a2fcac5j480ec33f50daa8dd@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <97da516f0607070851h4a34e26eu2169fc873e999f63@mail.gmail.com> On 7/6/06, Nikos Charonitakis wrote: > i checked out release-notes from cvs and i finally found that "about > fedora" menu entry resides in there. > So there are two files: about-fedora.xml and about-fedora.menu > Is these files covered by the usual translation procedure covered by > Translation Quick Start Guide? > I think no. > So in which way translators can localize this document and add the > appropriate localized menu entry? This is a known, unresolved issue. Please see https://bugzilla.redhat.com/bugzilla/show_bug.cgi?id=186506 for details. Christian From nman64 at n-man.com Fri Jul 7 18:58:27 2006 From: nman64 at n-man.com (Patrick W. Barnes) Date: Fri, 7 Jul 2006 13:58:27 -0500 Subject: Content depth/breadth (was: Update of "Docs/Drafts/DesktopUserGuide/Multimedia" by CodyDeHaan]) In-Reply-To: <1152242949.16657.322.camel@erato.phig.org> References: <1152242949.16657.322.camel@erato.phig.org> Message-ID: <200607071358.30181.nman64@n-man.com> On Thursday 06 July 2006 22:29, Karsten Wade wrote: > > The following page has been changed by CodyDeHaan: > > http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Docs/Drafts/DesktopUserGuide/Multimedia > > > > The comment on the change is: > > Created. Writers, take a look and give input! > > > > New page: > > = Playing Multimedia (Music & Video) = > > > > Fedora Core 5 includes tools for viewing video and listening to audio. > > > > 'WRITERS:' What do we do here? Multimedia already exists in the Wiki... > > I saw your comment in IRC as well, and I think you are referring to the > existing content at Docs/Beats/Multimedia, right? Actually, I believe he is referring to the new Multimedia section of the wiki. http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Multimedia I started this new section with a copy 'n' paste from the Multimedia beat, but it contains additional material and several original pages. > > The way to think about what is needed is to focus on the purpose of the > document. Some of the same material may be covered, but the method is > going to be different. > > The release notes, for example, are a compilation of interesting, > useful, or crucial facts about a version/release. If your objective was > to bake a loaf of bread, the release notes would tell you things such > as: > > * Is the supplied flour white, wheat, or a blend? Is it all purpose or > does it need additional gluten? > > * Where do you get the water for activating the yeast? > > The Desktop User Guide would instead be focused on answering the > questions: > > * The steps for turning flour, water, yeast, and salt into bread. > > * How or why different kinds of ovens affect the baking. > > * How to modify the recipe if you have a different type of flour. > > /me quickly finishes and sends, after letting it sit on his desktop for > a few days > In this case, the information in the Desktop User Guide should probably resemble what is currently in the Multimedia beat. The Multimedia beat needs additional details that can best be provided by packagers as the FC6 release approaches, and those details will probably not need to go in the Desktop User Guide. Both of the beat and the guide should point to the new Multimedia section for further reading, including the more sensitive information that the Multimedia section now provides. The Multimedia section will need a lot of further writing, but it already has enough information to be useful. -- Patrick "The N-Man" Barnes nman64 at n-man.com http://www.n-man.com/ LinkedIn: http://www.linkedin.com/in/nman64 Have I been helpful? Rate my assistance! http://rate.affero.net/nman64/ -- -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 189 bytes Desc: not available URL: From kwade at redhat.com Sat Jul 8 01:36:39 2006 From: kwade at redhat.com (Karsten Wade) Date: Fri, 07 Jul 2006 18:36:39 -0700 Subject: Guide on release notes translation? In-Reply-To: <44ADB0EC.1040102@glezos.com> References: <44A32CA8.10103@glezos.com> <44ADB0EC.1040102@glezos.com> Message-ID: <1152322600.16657.512.camel@erato.phig.org> On Fri, 2006-07-07 at 01:55 +0100, Dimitris Glezos wrote: > I'm bringing this up again (CC:ing -trans-list), since I received no > reply and FC6 is getting closer. > > Dimitris Glezos wrote: > > I searched the wiki for a page explaining how the translation of the > > beats work (or should work), but didn't find any. > > Is there any guide on how one should translate the release notes/beats? > If not, could someone please write the steps one should follow? It is the same as translating any other document. > I know the situation with Beats, moin-to-xml export and relevant stuff > are experimental, probably temporary and fragile, but there *should* be > a way for translators to have more than some days to translate the > 14.000-long release notes text. Currently it is much shorter than that, I hope. :) We are experimenting with new tools for Wiki -> XML, but there are no plans to abandon the Wiki as the _source_ for untranslated content. We'll continue working in XML for translation and publishing. We are also several days behind schedule[1] to get PO files published for translations to appear in the ISO this coming week. For this, I am responsible and again apologize for the delay. We had high goals for this release, and unfortunately are falling a little short. If all goes well, I'll announce PO files tonight. Anyone who is available can translate them for this coming week. [1] http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/DocsProject/Schedule > > Some other questions that come to my mind concerning the relnotes > > translation: > > > > * Does the "release notes freeze day" mean that a translator can't (or > > shouldn't) translate the .po file earlier? > > * Is the 'release-notes/devel' cvs module updated from the wiki before > > the freeze day so that we can star working on the translation before the > > freeze day? > > * If yes, how often? Some of the wording in the schedule was confusing. Can you look at the schedule again and see if it makes more sense? The key is the "Wiki snapshot". We give ourselves 24 hours to convert to XML. This week it is taking longer to go from the Wiki to XML (several days). :( This means that there is not a chance to start translating before the "Relnotes frozen for translators" on the schedule; that is when the XML and PO files are first available. > > * What's the best way to retain the translated parts of the older beats > > without translating them again? This are questions that are going to matter when going from test2 -> test3. None of the content from FC5 is relevant, although there may be some exceptions if a beat writer retains something. As we get closer to the release, some content is added, some is changed. We do want to collect some how-tos/tips for translators for keeping translated strings where there have been no changes. > > If there is such a page (targeted for translators, not beat writers), > > someone please point it out to me (sorry for not finding it). > > > > If not, then I believe such a page would be useful, because the > > translation of the release notes are somewhat different from the rest of > > the docs. http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/DocsProject/Translation is all that I know of. Perhaps you can help write such a page at DocsProject/ReleaseNotes/Translation? - Karsten -- Karsten Wade, RHCE, 108 Editor ^ Fedora Documentation Project Sr. Developer Relations Mgr. | fedoraproject.org/wiki/DocsProject quaid.108.redhat.com | gpg key: AD0E0C41 ////////////////////////////////// \\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\ -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: signature.asc Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 189 bytes Desc: This is a digitally signed message part URL: From Tommy.Reynolds at MegaCoder.com Sat Jul 8 06:38:48 2006 From: Tommy.Reynolds at MegaCoder.com (Tommy Reynolds) Date: Fri, 7 Jul 2006 23:38:48 -0700 Subject: String "Revision History" untranslatable In-Reply-To: <1152242027.13733.3.camel@localhost.localdomain> References: <44A7BF67.3050107@glezos.com> <1151878233.30380.9.camel@localhost.localdomain> <44ADAE20.9070308@glezos.com> <1152242027.13733.3.camel@localhost.localdomain> Message-ID: <20060707233848.b2c9fdb9.Tommy.Reynolds@MegaCoder.com> Uttered "Paul W. Frields" , spake thus: > > > It seems hardcoded in the xsl files. > > > $ grep 'Revision History' docs-common/xsl/main-html.xsl > > > Revision History > > Sorry Dim, I misunderstood your original message (I took "string" to > mean "element" by not paying close enough attention). In fact, I am > sure that one CANNOT translate that string, for the exact reason you > provided. If you have a solution in mind, I'm all ears! Paul, here's an idea and it's ugly as the south end of a northbound mule. 1) Add a "revhist='gobble gobble'" attribute to the "rpm-info.dtd" file. This gets the "Revision History" string into a file that the translators can work their .POT magic on. 2) Rename the current "main-html.xsl" to "main-html.xsl.in" 3) Edit "main-html.xsl.in" to replace the "Revision History" strings with the contents of an . 3) Create a new XSLT file that gets the "revhist" attribute and rewrite the , thus generating the temporary "main-html.xsl" file. 4) Add "${RM} main-html.xsl" as a new "clean:" action. 5) Nothing else needs to be changed. (yes, I'm up way too late ;-) -- I'm already an anomaly, I shall soon be an anachronism, and I have every intention of dying an abuse! From nman64 at n-man.com Sat Jul 8 07:31:18 2006 From: nman64 at n-man.com (Patrick W. Barnes) Date: Sat, 8 Jul 2006 02:31:18 -0500 Subject: Guide on release notes translation? In-Reply-To: <1152322600.16657.512.camel@erato.phig.org> References: <44A32CA8.10103@glezos.com> <44ADB0EC.1040102@glezos.com> <1152322600.16657.512.camel@erato.phig.org> Message-ID: <200607080231.21544.nman64@n-man.com> On Friday 07 July 2006 20:36, Karsten Wade wrote: > We are also several days behind schedule[1] to get PO files published > for translations to appear in the ISO this coming week. For this, I am > responsible and again apologize for the delay. We had high goals for > this release, and unfortunately are falling a little short. > > If all goes well, I'll announce PO files tonight. Anyone who is > available can translate them for this coming week. > > [1] http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/DocsProject/Schedule > If I'm not mistaken, we should have a little extra time that the Docs schedule doesn't yet show. Test2 was pushed back by one week to allow for a mass package rebuild. -- Patrick "The N-Man" Barnes nman64 at n-man.com http://www.n-man.com/ LinkedIn: http://www.linkedin.com/in/nman64 Have I been helpful? Rate my assistance! http://rate.affero.net/nman64/ -- -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 189 bytes Desc: not available URL: From stickster at gmail.com Sun Jul 9 18:02:36 2006 From: stickster at gmail.com (Paul W. Frields) Date: Sun, 09 Jul 2006 14:02:36 -0400 Subject: FWN Column Message-ID: <1152468156.1484.31.camel@localhost.localdomain> NOTE: Followup set to fedora-marketing-list at redhat.com Fedora Weekly News, in association with the Fedora Documentation Project, is soon to start a new regular column devoted to giving answers to common user problems. The result would be similar to "Ask Shadowman" in Red Hat Magazine -- somewhat like a weekly FAQ, with the significant difference being that it's completely Fedora-centric, and we have the ability to be a bit more current through dipping into the input stream in real time. What do I mean by that last bit? Well, the questions are to be provided by the community, and answers provided by knowledgeable experts in the subject matter of each question. Questions could be submitted by users directly. That's not very different at all -- but here's the twist: Thomas Chung and I are hoping Ambassadors and other Marketing folks will cull them from topics coming up currently in the Fedora Forum and on IRC #fedora. You can then post new questions on the wiki in a queue page to be addressed in the next week's column: http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/WeeklyQuestions Answers would give step-by-step solutions when possible, with short explanations for new users. We will probably handle somewhere between three and five questions per issue, but if we find the queue is stacking or lacking, we will change those numbers as necessary. Why do this? Primarily to cut down on user frustration and FUD caused by wrong answers. When inexperienced users help other inexperienced users, they sometimes proffer solutions which are less than optimal. (The most common example that comes to mind is "disable SELinux," but there are many others.) While we all appreciate the helpful spirit of our community members, we also want to help everyone Do The Right Thing when possible, especially if it means better education and security. Many of the folks with the most knowledge don't spend a lot of time on IRC #fedora or the Fedora Forums, so this is a way the community can benefit from their expertise while requiring very little of their time. This initiative also gives the FDP a way of judging where more documentation is needed. We have few hands and many goals, but by leveraging the popularity of FWN we may get some clues where best to allocate those resources. We've got several Fedora luminaries lined up to contribute answers to the column, so we expect this will be a great new way to provide some community outreach. Thomas and I will be keeping a close eye on the questions and answers and using them to steer this initiative. If you are an experienced Fedoran with good communication skills who would like to participate, please put your name on the list of answer providers: http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/WeeklyQuestions/SolversList More to come... -- Paul W. Frields, RHCE http://paul.frields.org/ gpg fingerprint: 3DA6 A0AC 6D58 FEC4 0233 5906 ACDB C937 BD11 3717 Fedora Project Board: http://www.fedoraproject.org/wiki/Board Fedora Documentation Project: http://fedora.redhat.com/projects/docs/ -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: signature.asc Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 189 bytes Desc: This is a digitally signed message part URL: From stickster at gmail.com Sun Jul 9 19:54:46 2006 From: stickster at gmail.com (Paul W. Frields) Date: Sun, 09 Jul 2006 15:54:46 -0400 Subject: String "Revision History" untranslatable In-Reply-To: <20060707233848.b2c9fdb9.Tommy.Reynolds@MegaCoder.com> References: <44A7BF67.3050107@glezos.com> <1151878233.30380.9.camel@localhost.localdomain> <44ADAE20.9070308@glezos.com> <1152242027.13733.3.camel@localhost.localdomain> <20060707233848.b2c9fdb9.Tommy.Reynolds@MegaCoder.com> Message-ID: <1152474886.1484.49.camel@localhost.localdomain> On Fri, 2006-07-07 at 23:38 -0700, Tommy Reynolds wrote: > Uttered "Paul W. Frields" , spake thus: > > > > > It seems hardcoded in the xsl files. > > > > $ grep 'Revision History' docs-common/xsl/main-html.xsl > > > > Revision History > > > > Sorry Dim, I misunderstood your original message (I took "string" to > > mean "element" by not paying close enough attention). In fact, I am > > sure that one CANNOT translate that string, for the exact reason you > > provided. If you have a solution in mind, I'm all ears! > > Paul, here's an idea and it's ugly as the south end of a northbound > mule. It is, although it's more clever than said mule too. :-) Turns out I found the simple, elegant and beautiful approach by digging into the docbook-style-xsl package a bit. No translation required for that string now, it's included as part of those stylesheets "out of the box." -- Paul W. Frields, RHCE http://paul.frields.org/ gpg fingerprint: 3DA6 A0AC 6D58 FEC4 0233 5906 ACDB C937 BD11 3717 Fedora Project Board: http://www.fedoraproject.org/wiki/Board Fedora Documentation Project: http://fedora.redhat.com/projects/docs/ -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: signature.asc Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 189 bytes Desc: This is a digitally signed message part URL: From kwade at redhat.com Sun Jul 9 20:58:03 2006 From: kwade at redhat.com (Karsten Wade) Date: Sun, 09 Jul 2006 13:58:03 -0700 Subject: status on CVS access Message-ID: <1152478684.29925.38.camel@erato.phig.org> FDP is moving to a sponsored CVS access model, very similar to what Fedora Extras is doing. http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/DocsProject/CVSAccess [1] The main reason is because we are moving away from CVS as being the primary way to contribute and edit documentation. Aside from the Wiki, we are close to putting up a full CMS on fedoraproject.org, and most documentation workflow (write, edit, publish) is going to be handled directly there. CVS continues to be important for translation and full-length documents that authors prefer to work directly in XML. The Fedora Infrastructure team is working on migrating Fedora Translation CVS and the CGI that handles the translators' workflow. In the meantime, we'll continue to add individual translators. These translators need to follow the same sponsorship model, ideally with a sponsor being a fellow translator from their language. Cheers - Karsten [1] Thanks to Hugo Cisneros for his draft of this document and helping to drive the sponsorship model for FDP :) -- Karsten Wade, RHCE, 108 Editor ^ Fedora Documentation Project Sr. Developer Relations Mgr. | fedoraproject.org/wiki/DocsProject quaid.108.redhat.com | gpg key: AD0E0C41 ////////////////////////////////// \\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\ -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: signature.asc Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 189 bytes Desc: This is a digitally signed message part URL: From Tommy.Reynolds at MegaCoder.com Sun Jul 9 22:13:18 2006 From: Tommy.Reynolds at MegaCoder.com (Tommy Reynolds) Date: Sun, 9 Jul 2006 15:13:18 -0700 Subject: String "Revision History" untranslatable In-Reply-To: <1152474886.1484.49.camel@localhost.localdomain> References: <44A7BF67.3050107@glezos.com> <1151878233.30380.9.camel@localhost.localdomain> <44ADAE20.9070308@glezos.com> <1152242027.13733.3.camel@localhost.localdomain> <20060707233848.b2c9fdb9.Tommy.Reynolds@MegaCoder.com> <1152474886.1484.49.camel@localhost.localdomain> Message-ID: <20060709151318.bc3fc52f.Tommy.Reynolds@MegaCoder.com> Uttered "Paul W. Frields" , spake thus: > It is, although it's more clever than said mule too. :-) Turns out I > found the simple, elegant and beautiful approach by digging into the > docbook-style-xsl package a bit. No translation required for that > string now, it's included as part of those stylesheets "out of the box." Excellent catch! Wish I'd done that... -- I'm already an anomaly, I shall soon be an anachronism, and I have every intention of dying an abuse! From sundaram at fedoraproject.org Sun Jul 9 22:30:00 2006 From: sundaram at fedoraproject.org (Rahul) Date: Mon, 10 Jul 2006 04:00:00 +0530 Subject: [Fedora-marketing-list] FWN Column In-Reply-To: <1152468156.1484.31.camel@localhost.localdomain> References: <1152468156.1484.31.camel@localhost.localdomain> Message-ID: <44B18368.6030700@fedoraproject.org> Paul W. Frields wrote: > NOTE: Followup set to fedora-marketing-list at redhat.com > > Fedora Weekly News, in association with the Fedora Documentation > Project, is soon to start a new regular column devoted to giving answers > to common user problems. The result would be similar to "Ask Shadowman" > in Red Hat Magazine -- somewhat like a weekly FAQ, with the significant > difference being that it's completely Fedora-centric, and we have the > ability to be a bit more current through dipping into the input stream > in real time. Sorry I couldnt respond to this while the earlier discussion came up but if we are starting a column, we should be expanding the scope of it a bit more. "Ask Shadowman" is useful because it doesnt limit the column to merely tech support questions. We can ask things like say " Why should I switch from Slackware to one of the Red Hat products" and still get an answer. http://www.redhat.com/magazine/020jun06/departments/ask_shadowman/ So in my opinion we are better off renaming the column as "Ask Fedora" or something like that and let the community ask whatever they want to. I was about to start my own blog series (http://weblogs.mozillazine.org/asa/archives/008505.html) or 108 community "Ask Rahul" and get all the glory but I will sacrifice that now for the greater cause. Rahul From kwade at redhat.com Mon Jul 10 02:52:45 2006 From: kwade at redhat.com (Karsten Wade) Date: Sun, 09 Jul 2006 19:52:45 -0700 Subject: 1 week schedule slip for release notes (was Guide on release notes translation?) In-Reply-To: <200607080231.21544.nman64@n-man.com> References: <44A32CA8.10103@glezos.com> <44ADB0EC.1040102@glezos.com> <1152322600.16657.512.camel@erato.phig.org> <200607080231.21544.nman64@n-man.com> Message-ID: <1152499965.29925.55.camel@erato.phig.org> We now have a small delay for translation of release notes, as the master schedule has fallen back by one week. http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/DocsProject/Schedule The PO files are going to be available by 23:59 UTC 11 July Tuesday. Due date for PO files to be included in the ISO is 17 July Monday 23:59 UTC. Due date for inclusion on the Web only release of the notes is 24 July. On Sat, 2006-07-08 at 02:31 -0500, Patrick W. Barnes wrote: > If I'm not mistaken, we should have a little extra time that the Docs schedule > doesn't yet show. Test2 was pushed back by one week to allow for a mass > package rebuild. OK, I have now set a watch on the master FC schedule, so hopefully won't be caught by surprise again. Ha! As if I believe that ... ;-D - Karsten -- Karsten Wade, RHCE, 108 Editor ^ Fedora Documentation Project Sr. Developer Relations Mgr. | fedoraproject.org/wiki/DocsProject quaid.108.redhat.com | gpg key: AD0E0C41 ////////////////////////////////// \\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\ -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: signature.asc Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 189 bytes Desc: This is a digitally signed message part URL: From kwade at redhat.com Mon Jul 10 15:54:15 2006 From: kwade at redhat.com (Karsten Wade) Date: Mon, 10 Jul 2006 08:54:15 -0700 Subject: active, passive, and ... commanding Message-ID: <1152546856.29925.94.camel@erato.phig.org> Ah, my favorite part of documentation mailing lists, the grammar debates. :) This page ... http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/DocsProject/StyleGuide/GeneralGuidelines ... provides guidelines on using active, passive, and a commanding voice. I'm personally not in full agreement with the recommendations, and wanted to discuss this here, see what consensus we can reach. In the "use active voice" camp, we generally avoid passive voice like the plague. A hallmark of the passive voice is the word 'will', as in, "Click OK and then the page will change to blue." Compare that to, "Click OK and the page changes to blue." The second is more authoritative and assuring, and provides a context-in-time. By that I mean, it assumes the reader is following the directions in real time, in which case, the screen is not going to eventually change to blue, it is going to do it immediately in response to clicking OK. Once you accept that, you quickly find that you never need the passive voice. Even to avoid awkward sentence structure. If you want to say that something "will happen", it either "is going to happen" or "might happen." Commanding voice seems to be about a more strongly worded version of active voice. I don't see a need for it, other than as part of admonitions. That is, we permit/suggest people are more commanding in admonitions. But the commanding voice examples such as, "You will click the OK button," actually is more confusing than commanding. It sounds like a prediction of the future. What happens if the user does not click OK? The command is now false -- the user in the future ('will do') did not in fact do the action. Does not compute! Circuits melting! Thus, I find the commanding voice to be self-contradictory and self-confusing. My thinking is to clarify the voice section thus: 1. Active voice == good 1.1 Examples of active voice 2. Passive voice == bad 2.1 Examples of passive voice 2.1.1 How to use a global search for the word 'will' to eliminate 80% of your passive voice usage Opinions? :) - Karsten -- Karsten Wade, RHCE, 108 Editor ^ Fedora Documentation Project Sr. Developer Relations Mgr. | fedoraproject.org/wiki/DocsProject quaid.108.redhat.com | gpg key: AD0E0C41 ////////////////////////////////// \\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\ -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: signature.asc Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 189 bytes Desc: This is a digitally signed message part URL: From stickster at gmail.com Mon Jul 10 20:31:43 2006 From: stickster at gmail.com (Paul W. Frields) Date: Mon, 10 Jul 2006 16:31:43 -0400 Subject: active, passive, and ... commanding In-Reply-To: <1152546856.29925.94.camel@erato.phig.org> References: <1152546856.29925.94.camel@erato.phig.org> Message-ID: <1152563503.1484.156.camel@localhost.localdomain> On Mon, 2006-07-10 at 08:54 -0700, Karsten Wade wrote: > Ah, my favorite part of documentation mailing lists, the grammar > debates. :) > > This page ... > > http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/DocsProject/StyleGuide/GeneralGuidelines > > ... provides guidelines on using active, passive, and a commanding > voice. I'm personally not in full agreement with the recommendations, > and wanted to discuss this here, see what consensus we can reach. > > In the "use active voice" camp, we generally avoid passive voice like > the plague. A hallmark of the passive voice is the word 'will', as in, > "Click OK and then the page will change to blue." Compare that to, > "Click OK and the page changes to blue." The second is more > authoritative and assuring, and provides a context-in-time. By that I > mean, it assumes the reader is following the directions in real time, in > which case, the screen is not going to eventually change to blue, it is > going to do it immediately in response to clicking OK. > > Once you accept that, you quickly find that you never need the passive > voice. Even to avoid awkward sentence structure. If you want to say > that something "will happen", it either "is going to happen" or "might > happen." > > Commanding voice seems to be about a more strongly worded version of > active voice. I don't see a need for it, other than as part of > admonitions. That is, we permit/suggest people are more commanding in > admonitions. > > But the commanding voice examples such as, "You will click the OK > button," actually is more confusing than commanding. It sounds like a > prediction of the future. What happens if the user does not click OK? > The command is now false -- the user in the future ('will do') did not > in fact do the action. Does not compute! Circuits melting! Thus, I > find the commanding voice to be self-contradictory and self-confusing. > > My thinking is to clarify the voice section thus: > > 1. Active voice == good > 1.1 Examples of active voice > 2. Passive voice == bad > 2.1 Examples of passive voice > 2.1.1 How to use a global search for the word 'will' to eliminate 80% > of your passive voice usage > > Opinions? :) +1. Commanding voice is also excessively wordy: "You will click the OK button" not only can become untrue (if the user fails to follow instructions), but is more concisely stated "Click the OK button." The active voice also suffers under excessive gerund usage. Wherever you can, avoid using the gerund ("-ing") form of verbs, since they generally weaken the sentence. I myself am guilty of this constantly, so I tend to grep 'ing[^a-z]' to find those problems. (I also suffer from excessive "will" usage, but I two tsp. of Karsten's magic 'C-s will' syrup as a remedy.) -- Paul W. Frields, RHCE http://paul.frields.org/ gpg fingerprint: 3DA6 A0AC 6D58 FEC4 0233 5906 ACDB C937 BD11 3717 Fedora Project Board: http://www.fedoraproject.org/wiki/Board Fedora Documentation Project: http://fedora.redhat.com/projects/docs/ -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: signature.asc Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 189 bytes Desc: This is a digitally signed message part URL: From kwade at redhat.com Tue Jul 11 22:36:25 2006 From: kwade at redhat.com (Karsten Wade) Date: Tue, 11 Jul 2006 15:36:25 -0700 Subject: update: FC6test2 release notes PO files Message-ID: <1152657385.7064.79.camel@erato.phig.org> We are working on the XML conversion with new tools right now. Our current estimate is another 1.5 hours of work, which would make the PO files available in CVS about 2 hours late. I'll send another update when we know more. - Karsten -- Karsten Wade, RHCE, 108 Editor ^ Fedora Documentation Project Sr. Developer Relations Mgr. | fedoraproject.org/wiki/DocsProject quaid.108.redhat.com | gpg key: AD0E0C41 ////////////////////////////////// \\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\ -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: signature.asc Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 189 bytes Desc: This is a digitally signed message part URL: From Tommy.Reynolds at MegaCoder.com Wed Jul 12 02:28:31 2006 From: Tommy.Reynolds at MegaCoder.com (Tommy Reynolds) Date: Tue, 11 Jul 2006 19:28:31 -0700 Subject: active, passive, and ... commanding In-Reply-To: <1152546856.29925.94.camel@erato.phig.org> References: <1152546856.29925.94.camel@erato.phig.org> Message-ID: <20060711192831.07f1ef40.Tommy.Reynolds@MegaCoder.com> Uttered Karsten Wade , spake thus: > Ah, my favorite part of documentation mailing lists, the grammar > debates. :) How can there be debate when I am right? > Once you accept that, you quickly find that you never need the passive > voice. Even to avoid awkward sentence structure. If you want to say > that something "will happen", it either "is going to happen" or "might > happen." +1 > But the commanding voice examples such as, "You will click the OK > button," actually is more confusing than commanding. Agreed. We are not Micro$oft to command our users... I once worked for a company whose standard was that all titles must be gerund phrases ("Opening A File") on the theory the gerund for relates to a specific task or action, thus avoiding the document becoming a littany of feature descriptions and bullet lists. After all, every feature is provided to accomplish a given task, no? However, this makes for exceedingly ugly documents and I don't like the grund rule but I do like their focus on tasks and not features. Use cases of the world, unite! -- I'm already an anomaly, I shall soon be an anachronism, and I have every intention of dying an abuse! From kwade at redhat.com Wed Jul 12 12:22:37 2006 From: kwade at redhat.com (Karsten Wade) Date: Wed, 12 Jul 2006 05:22:37 -0700 Subject: release notes ready for translation (FC6 test2) Message-ID: <1152706957.7064.89.camel@erato.phig.org> The release notes are ready for translation. We apologize for the delay (about 14 hours) as we work through new processes. The new POT file is found at: cvs.fedoraproject.org:/cvs/docs/release-notes/devel/po/RELEASE-NOTES.pot The files in devel/ (and the docs-common module) have been tagged in CVS with "ready-for-translation-FC6-test2". If you have any questions, fedora-docs-list is probably the best place to ask. - Karsten -- Karsten Wade, RHCE, 108 Editor ^ Fedora Documentation Project Sr. Developer Relations Mgr. | fedoraproject.org/wiki/DocsProject quaid.108.redhat.com | gpg key: AD0E0C41 ////////////////////////////////// \\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\ -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: signature.asc Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 189 bytes Desc: This is a digitally signed message part URL: From stickster at gmail.com Wed Jul 12 13:15:59 2006 From: stickster at gmail.com (Paul W. Frields) Date: Wed, 12 Jul 2006 09:15:59 -0400 Subject: active, passive, and ... commanding In-Reply-To: <20060711192831.07f1ef40.Tommy.Reynolds@MegaCoder.com> References: <1152546856.29925.94.camel@erato.phig.org> <20060711192831.07f1ef40.Tommy.Reynolds@MegaCoder.com> Message-ID: <1152710159.1484.209.camel@localhost.localdomain> On Tue, 2006-07-11 at 19:28 -0700, Tommy Reynolds wrote: > Uttered Karsten Wade , spake thus: > > > Ah, my favorite part of documentation mailing lists, the grammar > > debates. :) > > How can there be debate when I am right? > > > Once you accept that, you quickly find that you never need the passive > > voice. Even to avoid awkward sentence structure. If you want to say > > that something "will happen", it either "is going to happen" or "might > > happen." > > +1 > > > But the commanding voice examples such as, "You will click the OK > > button," actually is more confusing than commanding. > > Agreed. We are not Micro$oft to command our users... > > I once worked for a company whose standard was that all titles must > be gerund phrases ("Opening A File") on the theory the gerund for > relates to a specific task or action, thus avoiding the document > becoming a littany of feature descriptions and bullet lists. After > all, every feature is provided to accomplish a given task, no? > > However, this makes for exceedingly ugly documents and I don't like > the grund rule but I do like their focus on tasks and not features. > Use cases of the world, unite! Titles are the only location for gerunds that don't immediately cause me to think of ways to remove the gerund. But it's nice to get rid of them there too, +1. -- Paul W. Frields, RHCE http://paul.frields.org/ gpg fingerprint: 3DA6 A0AC 6D58 FEC4 0233 5906 ACDB C937 BD11 3717 Fedora Project Board: http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Board Fedora Docs Project: http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/DocsProject -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: signature.asc Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 189 bytes Desc: This is a digitally signed message part URL: From kwade at redhat.com Wed Jul 12 19:53:52 2006 From: kwade at redhat.com (Karsten Wade) Date: Wed, 12 Jul 2006 12:53:52 -0700 Subject: Wiki Docs/Beats opened for changes for Web-only release notes Message-ID: <1152734032.7064.215.camel@erato.phig.org> You may continue to edit the Wiki at: http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Docs/Beats Next Monday we are going to take another snapshot to output to XML[1] and make available as a Web-only release notes to coincide with the test2 release. This test release notes is the last one that you can afford to leave your project's content empty. If you do not have content in place for test3, your content does not gain the community vetting before FC6 release. So, please come follow the open content methodology. - Karsten [1] We used a Wiki running the new code from the Summer of Code project that has already greatly improved the XML output capabilities of Moin Moin. When this SoC project is completed, it is going to be very, very easy to use the Wiki as a drafting and authoring tool, then output to XML/XHTML for DocBook and the Plone CMS. -- Karsten Wade, RHCE, 108 Editor ^ Fedora Documentation Project Sr. Developer Relations Mgr. | fedoraproject.org/wiki/DocsProject quaid.108.redhat.com | gpg key: AD0E0C41 ////////////////////////////////// \\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\ -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: signature.asc Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 189 bytes Desc: This is a digitally signed message part URL: From cepxat at gmail.com Wed Jul 12 20:11:55 2006 From: cepxat at gmail.com (=?ISO-8859-1?Q?Serhat_G=FCng=F6r?=) Date: Wed, 12 Jul 2006 23:11:55 +0300 Subject: Self Introduction : Serhat GUNGOR Message-ID: <6894514e0607121311o698c8ab1q8318d53567e8619d@mail.gmail.com> Hi, I'm Serhat GUNGOR from Istanbul, Turkey. I'm a Computer Engineer and using linux nearly 4 years. Before Fedora i was using Red Hat. Till last week i was working as system administrator in Istanbul Technical University(ITU) which is the one of the big universities of Turkey. Mostly Red Hat Enterprise L?nux is used there in the server side. In the client side more than 1000 computers are Fedora. We started a a Linux Education program in ITU which is called ITU Linux Academy (http://ila.itu.edu.tr -- page is in Turkish) and had lots of students from university or out of the university. Now i'm working at Turkey's biggest GSM operator. I am working on Fedora Translation Project and i will be leading the Turkish team. And to make people join the translation project, firstly i want to translate quick-start-guide to Turkish. Serhat Gungor cepxat at gmail.com -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From splinux at fedoraproject.org Wed Jul 12 23:52:44 2006 From: splinux at fedoraproject.org (Damien Durand) Date: Thu, 13 Jul 2006 01:52:44 +0200 Subject: Self Introduction : Serhat GUNGOR In-Reply-To: <6894514e0607121311o698c8ab1q8318d53567e8619d@mail.gmail.com> References: <6894514e0607121311o698c8ab1q8318d53567e8619d@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: Welcome ;-) 2006/7/12, Serhat G?ng?r : > > Hi, > I'm Serhat GUNGOR from Istanbul, Turkey. I'm a Computer Engineer and using > linux nearly 4 years. Before Fedora i was using Red Hat. Till last week i > was working as system administrator in Istanbul Technical University(ITU) > which is the one of the big universities of Turkey. Mostly Red Hat > Enterprise L?nux is used there in the server side. In the client side more > than 1000 computers are Fedora. We started a a Linux Education program in > ITU which is called ITU Linux Academy ( http://ila.itu.edu.tr -- page is > in Turkish) and had lots of students from university or out of the > university. Now i'm working at Turkey's biggest GSM operator. > > I am working on Fedora Translation Project and i will be leading the > Turkish team. And to make people join the translation project, firstly i > want to translate quick-start-guide to Turkish. > > > Serhat Gungor > cepxat at gmail.com > > -- > fedora-docs-list mailing list > fedora-docs-list at redhat.com > To unsubscribe: > https://www.redhat.com/mailman/listinfo/fedora-docs-list > > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From noriko at redhat.com Thu Jul 13 03:43:14 2006 From: noriko at redhat.com (Noriko Mizumoto) Date: Thu, 13 Jul 2006 13:43:14 +1000 Subject: translation-quick-start-guide into Japanese Message-ID: <44B5C152.1050801@redhat.com> Hi I have finished Japanese translation of the above. Also the translation has been proofread by Mr. Tatsuo Sekine. How can I publish this? cheers noriko From noriko at redhat.com Thu Jul 13 04:42:49 2006 From: noriko at redhat.com (Noriko Mizumoto) Date: Thu, 13 Jul 2006 14:42:49 +1000 Subject: translation-quick-start-guide into Japanese In-Reply-To: <44B5C152.1050801@redhat.com> References: <44B5C152.1050801@redhat.com> Message-ID: <44B5CF49.7070503@redhat.com> Ah... I got it, Editing the page http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/DocsProject/PublishQueue myself did work. Or did I need to ask someone to edit? noriko Noriko Mizumoto wrote: > Hi > > I have finished Japanese translation of the above. > Also the translation has been proofread by Mr. Tatsuo Sekine. > > How can I publish this? > > cheers > noriko > > From noriko at redhat.com Thu Jul 13 04:59:40 2006 From: noriko at redhat.com (Noriko Mizumoto) Date: Thu, 13 Jul 2006 14:59:40 +1000 Subject: translation-quick-start-guide improvement Message-ID: <44B5D33C.5080106@redhat.com> Hi fedora-docs team During the translation process of translation-quick-start-guide, I have encountered a couple points not covered well or possibly info changed. o For "4.1. Downloading Documentation", cvs repository path is explained as "ext:username at cvs.fedora.redhat.com:/cvs/docs", but it was corrected in sometime here to "cvs.fedoraproject.org". Could you mind to clarify this? o For "2.3. Accounts for Documentation", it would be nice if the section could contain more information/link about cvsdocs account. Translators from existing translation project (for software) may need more step by step instruction. I will file a bug for the author. o For publishing process, does the translator need to obtain the account of wiki-edit for adding the translation into Publish Que? If so then, the instruction of wiki-edit account may also be needed to add? cheers noriko From nman64 at n-man.com Thu Jul 13 06:02:41 2006 From: nman64 at n-man.com (Patrick W. Barnes) Date: Thu, 13 Jul 2006 01:02:41 -0500 Subject: active, passive, and ... commanding In-Reply-To: <1152546856.29925.94.camel@erato.phig.org> References: <1152546856.29925.94.camel@erato.phig.org> Message-ID: <200607130102.44213.nman64@n-man.com> On Monday 10 July 2006 10:54, Karsten Wade wrote: > Ah, my favorite part of documentation mailing lists, the grammar > debates. :) I just wanted to say that I'm not ignoring this thread, but it will probably be Friday before I can address the guide again. I'm watching the comments, so keep them coming! :-) -- Patrick "The N-Man" Barnes nman64 at n-man.com http://www.n-man.com/ LinkedIn: http://www.linkedin.com/in/nman64 Have I been helpful? Rate my assistance! http://rate.affero.net/nman64/ -- -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 189 bytes Desc: not available URL: From sundaram at fedoraproject.org Thu Jul 13 08:44:36 2006 From: sundaram at fedoraproject.org (Rahul) Date: Thu, 13 Jul 2006 14:14:36 +0530 Subject: publishing to fedoraproject.org Message-ID: <44B607F4.4000207@fedoraproject.org> Hi What does it take to move over fedora.redhat.com/docs publishing to fedoraproject.org/docs? I know there was a few discussions on moving the workflow to plone but there doesnt seem to be be enough expertise currently to implement it. Assuming no presence of plone, can we directly publish to fedoraproject.org/docs from CVS? Documentation project is the only major user of fedora.redhat.com currently and moving over would help us set up redirects and maintain a single website. Rahul From nman64 at n-man.com Thu Jul 13 13:11:30 2006 From: nman64 at n-man.com (Patrick W. Barnes) Date: Thu, 13 Jul 2006 08:11:30 -0500 Subject: publishing to fedoraproject.org In-Reply-To: <44B607F4.4000207@fedoraproject.org> References: <44B607F4.4000207@fedoraproject.org> Message-ID: <200607130811.33606.nman64@n-man.com> On Thursday 13 July 2006 03:44, Rahul wrote: > > What does it take to move over fedora.redhat.com/docs publishing to > fedoraproject.org/docs? http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/DocsProject/PloneIssues > I know there was a few discussions on moving the > workflow to plone but there doesnt seem to be be enough expertise > currently to implement it. Expertise is a small part of the issue. There's infrastructure work to be done, strategic decisions to be made, and more infrastructure work to be done. If you believe you can help in answering some of the issues from the PloneIssues page, please feel free to start a thread on this list or drop in on the next meeting. Some of the questions are a simple matter of teaching Plone usage. Some of the issues need strategic decisions. Others need a technical solution. The technical solutions will follow as Infrastructure does its thing and the Docs infrastructure is built to use Plone. > Assuming no presence of plone, can we > directly publish to fedoraproject.org/docs from CVS? No. The infrastructure would require adaptation to do this, and there would have to be a static HTML container built and put into place. The current system is also dependent upon PHP, which is not an option for fedoraproject.org. These are just some of the reasons that Plone is a target. Believe me, if it had been so easy to move to fedoraproject.org/docs, it would have already been done. > > Documentation project is the only major user of fedora.redhat.com > currently and moving over would help us set up redirects and maintain a > single website. > There are a few other things still reliant upon fedora.redhat.com, but moving docs over would be a huge step in the right direction and would put additional pressure on the other hold-outs. -- Patrick "The N-Man" Barnes nman64 at n-man.com http://www.n-man.com/ LinkedIn: http://www.linkedin.com/in/nman64 Have I been helpful? Rate my assistance! http://rate.affero.net/nman64/ -- -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 189 bytes Desc: not available URL: From kwade at redhat.com Thu Jul 13 13:38:47 2006 From: kwade at redhat.com (Karsten Wade) Date: Thu, 13 Jul 2006 06:38:47 -0700 Subject: publishing to fedoraproject.org In-Reply-To: <200607130811.33606.nman64@n-man.com> References: <44B607F4.4000207@fedoraproject.org> <200607130811.33606.nman64@n-man.com> Message-ID: <1152797927.7064.264.camel@erato.phig.org> On Thu, 2006-07-13 at 08:11 -0500, Patrick W. Barnes wrote: > > Assuming no presence of plone, can we > > directly publish to fedoraproject.org/docs from CVS? > > No. The infrastructure would require adaptation to do this, and there would > have to be a static HTML container built and put into place. The current > system is also dependent upon PHP, which is not an option for > fedoraproject.org. These are just some of the reasons that Plone is a > target. Believe me, if it had been so easy to move to > fedoraproject.org/docs, it would have already been done. While this is true of PHP and _styling_ issues, the content is not dependent on any of that. We could instead put up a single tree at fp.o/docs that duplicates the tree at f.r.c/docs, but with all the index.php rewritten as plain old HTML. The documents use the default Fedora CSS, so are pleasant to look at, even if they don't have the cool navigation wrapping that f.r.c provides. To do this in the quickest yet most scalable way, it would be helpful to have a publish script that runs as a cronjob on fp.o. It would check cvs.fp.o/cvs/docs/published/, which would be a new module that _is_ the new tree, look for everything tagged LIVE that wasn't already at fp.o, then write it out to fp.o/docs. This avoids us having to designate a few bottlenecks to do that via scp. Obviously, it won't do any of any good if this takes too many resources and results in a sub-standard effort that sucks more time from the FDP publishing team. But it seems feasible. Just tossing out ideas. :) - Karsten -- Karsten Wade, RHCE, 108 Editor ^ Fedora Documentation Project Sr. Developer Relations Mgr. | fedoraproject.org/wiki/DocsProject quaid.108.redhat.com | gpg key: AD0E0C41 ////////////////////////////////// \\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\ -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: signature.asc Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 189 bytes Desc: This is a digitally signed message part URL: From kwade at redhat.com Thu Jul 13 13:39:35 2006 From: kwade at redhat.com (Karsten Wade) Date: Thu, 13 Jul 2006 06:39:35 -0700 Subject: translation-quick-start-guide into Japanese In-Reply-To: <44B5CF49.7070503@redhat.com> References: <44B5C152.1050801@redhat.com> <44B5CF49.7070503@redhat.com> Message-ID: <1152797975.7064.266.camel@erato.phig.org> On Thu, 2006-07-13 at 14:42 +1000, Noriko Mizumoto wrote: > Ah... I got it, > Editing the page http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/DocsProject/PublishQueue > myself did work. > Or did I need to ask someone to edit? You did the right thing, thanks. - Karsten -- Karsten Wade, RHCE, 108 Editor ^ Fedora Documentation Project Sr. Developer Relations Mgr. | fedoraproject.org/wiki/DocsProject quaid.108.redhat.com | gpg key: AD0E0C41 ////////////////////////////////// \\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\ -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: signature.asc Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 189 bytes Desc: This is a digitally signed message part URL: From kwade at redhat.com Thu Jul 13 14:00:42 2006 From: kwade at redhat.com (Karsten Wade) Date: Thu, 13 Jul 2006 07:00:42 -0700 Subject: translation-quick-start-guide improvement In-Reply-To: <44B5D33C.5080106@redhat.com> References: <44B5D33C.5080106@redhat.com> Message-ID: <1152799243.7064.285.camel@erato.phig.org> On Thu, 2006-07-13 at 14:59 +1000, Noriko Mizumoto wrote: > Hi fedora-docs team > > During the translation process of translation-quick-start-guide, I have > encountered a couple points not covered well or possibly info changed. > > o For "4.1. Downloading Documentation", cvs repository path is explained > as "ext:username at cvs.fedora.redhat.com:/cvs/docs", but it was corrected > in sometime here to "cvs.fedoraproject.org". Could you mind to clarify this? They are the same machine. We are moving to using 'fedoraproject.org' instead of 'fedora.redhat.com' by convention. > o For "2.3. Accounts for Documentation", it would be nice if the section > could contain more information/link about cvsdocs account. Translators > from existing translation project (for software) may need more step by > step instruction. I will file a bug for the author. The author can use this page as a source for instructions: http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/WikiEditing The first question addresses how to get an account. I recommend using that information, then linking to the WikiEditing page from the trans-q-s-g for any other questions. > o For publishing process, does the translator need to obtain the account > of wiki-edit for adding the translation into Publish Que? If so then, > the instruction of wiki-edit account may also be needed to add? The PublishQueue page is a short-term work around until the content management system (CMS) is ready. The CMS lets us have a workflow of author/translate <-> edit -> publish, all through a single system. I do not think we can continue to use this work around with many thousands of translators. :) This is one reason why it is highly important to get translation CVS moved to cvs.fedoraproject.org, so we can use your existing processes and tools. Currently, when translating documentation or strings from software, how does each language team: 1. Have another translator approve/agree that the translation is accurate? 2. Signal that the translation is accurate and ready to be incorporated back into the software package? To get back to your specific question -- right now, yes, a translator who is working in cvs.fedoraproject.org/cvs/docs needs to edit that Wiki page when a document is ready for publishing. Fortunately, getting Wiki edit privileges is the easy part, once the CLA is signed and the CVS account is obtained, anyone with a Wiki edit account can put the new person in http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/EditGroup. Can you add this to your bug report so the step can be added/explained more in the trans-q-s-g? Thanks! - Karsten -- Karsten Wade, RHCE, 108 Editor ^ Fedora Documentation Project Sr. Developer Relations Mgr. | fedoraproject.org/wiki/DocsProject quaid.108.redhat.com | gpg key: AD0E0C41 ////////////////////////////////// \\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\ -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: signature.asc Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 189 bytes Desc: This is a digitally signed message part URL: From stickster at gmail.com Fri Jul 14 01:17:24 2006 From: stickster at gmail.com (Paul W. Frields) Date: Thu, 13 Jul 2006 21:17:24 -0400 Subject: Self Introduction : Serhat GUNGOR In-Reply-To: <6894514e0607121311o698c8ab1q8318d53567e8619d@mail.gmail.com> References: <6894514e0607121311o698c8ab1q8318d53567e8619d@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <1152839844.12193.47.camel@localhost.localdomain> On Wed, 2006-07-12 at 23:11 +0300, Serhat G?ng?r wrote: > Hi, > I'm Serhat GUNGOR from Istanbul, Turkey. I'm a Computer Engineer and > using linux nearly 4 years. Before Fedora i was using Red Hat. Till > last week i was working as system administrator in Istanbul Technical > University(ITU) which is the one of the big universities of Turkey. > Mostly Red Hat Enterprise L?nux is used there in the server side. In > the client side more than 1000 computers are Fedora. We started a a > Linux Education program in ITU which is called ITU Linux Academy > ( http://ila.itu.edu.tr -- page is in Turkish) and had lots of > students from university or out of the university. Now i'm working at > Turkey's biggest GSM operator. > > I am working on Fedora Translation Project and i will be leading the > Turkish team. And to make people join the translation project, firstly > i want to translate quick-start-guide to Turkish. Welcome Serhat. If you haven't already signed up for access to the cvsdocs group in the Fedora Account System, please do so. We're proud to have you and all our hard-working translators aboard. They've been doing a splendid job recently and we're hoping to have lots of translations for documents out for the FC6 cycle. We are very close to having release notes in the i18n.redhat.com system, so keep a lookout there. We'll of course post to this list and fedora-trans-list when it's ready. If you need any help getting started here, please let us know. -- Paul W. Frields, RHCE http://paul.frields.org/ gpg fingerprint: 3DA6 A0AC 6D58 FEC4 0233 5906 ACDB C937 BD11 3717 Fedora Project Board: http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Board Fedora Docs Project: http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/DocsProject From noriko at redhat.com Fri Jul 14 02:49:36 2006 From: noriko at redhat.com (Noriko Mizumoto) Date: Fri, 14 Jul 2006 12:49:36 +1000 Subject: translation-quick-start-guide improvement In-Reply-To: <1152799243.7064.285.camel@erato.phig.org> References: <44B5D33C.5080106@redhat.com> <1152799243.7064.285.camel@erato.phig.org> Message-ID: <44B70640.8000101@redhat.com> Karsten Wade wrote: > On Thu, 2006-07-13 at 14:59 +1000, Noriko Mizumoto wrote: > >>Hi fedora-docs team >> >>During the translation process of translation-quick-start-guide, I have >>encountered a couple points not covered well or possibly info changed. >> >>o For "4.1. Downloading Documentation", cvs repository path is explained >>as "ext:username at cvs.fedora.redhat.com:/cvs/docs", but it was corrected >>in sometime here to "cvs.fedoraproject.org". Could you mind to clarify this? > > > They are the same machine. We are moving to using 'fedoraproject.org' > instead of 'fedora.redhat.com' by convention. Thanks Karsten! Filed the bug, asking to update. > > >>o For "2.3. Accounts for Documentation", it would be nice if the section >>could contain more information/link about cvsdocs account. Translators >>from existing translation project (for software) may need more step by >>step instruction. I will file a bug for the author. > > > The author can use this page as a source for instructions: > > http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/WikiEditing > > The first question addresses how to get an account. I recommend using > that information, then linking to the WikiEditing page from the > trans-q-s-g for any other questions. Added this information in the bug. > > >>o For publishing process, does the translator need to obtain the account >>of wiki-edit for adding the translation into Publish Que? If so then, >>the instruction of wiki-edit account may also be needed to add? > > > The PublishQueue page is a short-term work around until the content > management system (CMS) is ready. The CMS lets us have a workflow of > author/translate <-> edit -> publish, all through a single system. This is excellent! I can't wait. > > I do not think we can continue to use this work around with many > thousands of translators. :) This is one reason why it is highly > important to get translation CVS moved to cvs.fedoraproject.org, so we > can use your existing processes and tools. Yes, strongly agreed. > > Currently, when translating documentation or strings from software, how > does each language team: > > 1. Have another translator approve/agree that the translation is > accurate? > > 2. Signal that the translation is accurate and ready to be incorporated > back into the software package? For software transaltion, we do have the interface to manage. http://elvis.redhat.com/cgi-bin/i18n-status 1. If particular module has it's trans-maintainer, he/she will approve the translation. For example, you can see it by going to the status of JA => click anaconda/ module, then there is 'Translation Status' field saying QA [Approve]. http://elvis.redhat.com/cgi-bin/i18n-status?page=module&locale=ja&module=anaconda&referrer=status&branch=HEAD&essential=0 2. If the module has no maintainer, the translator can post the diff into f-t-ja asking others to review. This is more likely to say common practice performed among Japanese team. So it may not apply other languages. 3. Package maintainer needs to pick up latest translation for build. For documentation, we need to rely on trans-q-s-g, and this is the reason I am working on it. o PublishQueue page should work for cvsdoc. Btw, who will actually publish it into appropriate place, for example trans-q-s-g-ja? o For wiki translation, almost same procedure with the above 2 of software (asking for proofread) seems working for Japanese team. > > To get back to your specific question -- right now, yes, a translator > who is working in cvs.fedoraproject.org/cvs/docs needs to edit that Wiki > page when a document is ready for publishing. Fortunately, getting Wiki > edit privileges is the easy part, once the CLA is signed and the CVS > account is obtained, anyone with a Wiki edit account can put the new > person in http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/EditGroup. Filed the bug, asking for new section on publishing. Once CMS is ready, trans-q-s-g can be updated easier. > > Can you add this to your bug report so the step can be added/explained > more in the trans-q-s-g? Yp! All information added. I also will be able to give a hand to the author further if he wish. cheers noriko > > Thanks! > > - Karsten > From aalam at redhat.com Fri Jul 14 03:53:58 2006 From: aalam at redhat.com (A S Alam) Date: Fri, 14 Jul 2006 09:23:58 +0530 Subject: Fedora Release-notes available in cvs Message-ID: <44B71556.2000503@redhat.com> hi Translation Team, ---- New Module ---- New module "release-notes" is added to 'translate' folder, --Total Number of untranslated lines 434-- you can check out by following steps 1. go inside your translate folder 2. run command cvs co po_release-notes 3. if your language is not there, pls user 'RELEASE-NOTES.pot' file as template and save as .po 4. Add .po to cvs 5. Commit your changes like for Punjabi (language code = pa) $cp RELEASE-NOTES.pot pa.po $cvs add pa.po $cvs commit -m "your message" pa.po --- last Date --- last date to commit for 'release-notes' is **17 July at 22:59 UTC** (sorry for short announcement, but we were under process to start, next time surely get more time) --- Where it goes --- translated Release-notes are available with FC6 as well as published on website like (FC5) http://fedora.redhat.com/docs/release-notes/ --- status --- yet there is not stats page entry for Release-notes anywhere on web, ---- current status --- following languages are available de.po fr_FR.po it.po ja_JP.po pa.po pt_BR.po pt.po ru.po zh_CN.po --- Questions --- if you have questions related to 0) Release-notes, questions about the meaning of phrases, possible typos, fedora-docs-list at redhat.com (join list at https://www.redhat.com/mailman/listinfo/fedora-docs-list) 0) Translation, like for commit, add file to cvs, please send your mail to fedora-trans-list at redhat.com it will be better to include send mailing list in CC, --- channel --- please feel free to join us at following channels #fedora-docs, #fedora-l10n (at Freenode (freenode.irc.net)) and ask your questions. CC: fedora-documentation list thanks -- A S Alam join us at #fedora-l10n (freenode) "Either find a way or make one" From kwade at redhat.com Fri Jul 14 06:47:47 2006 From: kwade at redhat.com (Karsten Wade) Date: Thu, 13 Jul 2006 23:47:47 -0700 Subject: Fedora Installation Guide writer opening Message-ID: <1152859668.7064.383.camel@erato.phig.org> There is an open author/maintainer position for the Fedora Installation Guide for FC6. It would be good to get a beta available for use for test3. This allows us to gain the advantage of release early, release often. This is a fairly important book and high profile. If you'd like to get involved in a meaningful documentation project, take a look at: http://fedora.redhat.com/docs/fedora-install-guide-en/fc5/ And contact us back here on this thread to discuss your participation. - Karsten -- Karsten Wade, RHCE, 108 Editor ^ Fedora Documentation Project Sr. Developer Relations Mgr. | fedoraproject.org/wiki/DocsProject quaid.108.redhat.com | gpg key: AD0E0C41 ////////////////////////////////// \\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\ -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: signature.asc Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 189 bytes Desc: This is a digitally signed message part URL: From kwade at redhat.com Fri Jul 14 06:58:36 2006 From: kwade at redhat.com (Karsten Wade) Date: Thu, 13 Jul 2006 23:58:36 -0700 Subject: Fedora Release-notes available in cvs In-Reply-To: <44B71556.2000503@redhat.com> References: <44B71556.2000503@redhat.com> Message-ID: <1152860316.7064.396.camel@erato.phig.org> My translator friends: Many of you have brought yourself over here to the Documentation Project, to work in our CVS, to help translate the best Linux release notes. You did this while we made many changes and demands on you. Tools changing rapidly and schedule slips. All the fun parts of an open source project. :) I consider you to be the "leaders" of your language team when it comes to translating Fedora Documentation. You have earned that. You have also earned the support you are going to have from the rest of the community of translators. You are hard working pioneers. Congratulations. I thank you - Karsten On Fri, 2006-07-14 at 09:23 +0530, A S Alam wrote: > hi Translation Team, > > ---- > New Module > ---- > New module "release-notes" is added to 'translate' folder, > --Total Number of untranslated lines 434-- > you can check out by following steps > > 1. go inside your translate folder > 2. run command > cvs co po_release-notes > 3. if your language is not there, pls user 'RELEASE-NOTES.pot' file as > template and save as .po > 4. Add .po to cvs > 5. Commit your changes > > like for Punjabi (language code = pa) > $cp RELEASE-NOTES.pot pa.po > $cvs add pa.po > $cvs commit -m "your message" pa.po > > --- > last Date > --- > > last date to commit for 'release-notes' is > > **17 July at 22:59 UTC** > > (sorry for short announcement, but we were under process to start, next time surely get more time) > > > --- > Where it goes > --- > > translated Release-notes are available with FC6 as well as published on website like (FC5) > > http://fedora.redhat.com/docs/release-notes/ > > --- > status > --- > yet there is not stats page entry for Release-notes anywhere on web, > > ---- > current status > --- > following languages are available > > de.po > fr_FR.po > it.po > ja_JP.po > pa.po > pt_BR.po > pt.po > ru.po > zh_CN.po > > > --- > Questions > --- > if you have questions related to > 0) Release-notes, questions about the meaning of phrases, possible typos, > fedora-docs-list at redhat.com > (join list at https://www.redhat.com/mailman/listinfo/fedora-docs-list) > > 0) Translation, like for commit, add file to cvs, please send your mail to > fedora-trans-list at redhat.com > > it will be better to include send mailing list in CC, > > --- > channel > --- > please feel free to join us at following channels > #fedora-docs, #fedora-l10n > (at Freenode (freenode.irc.net)) > and ask your questions. > > CC: fedora-documentation list > > thanks > -- Karsten Wade, RHCE, 108 Editor ^ Fedora Documentation Project Sr. Developer Relations Mgr. | fedoraproject.org/wiki/DocsProject quaid.108.redhat.com | gpg key: AD0E0C41 ////////////////////////////////// \\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\ -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: signature.asc Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 189 bytes Desc: This is a digitally signed message part URL: From thomas.canniot at laposte.net Fri Jul 14 15:02:48 2006 From: thomas.canniot at laposte.net (Thomas Canniot) Date: Fri, 14 Jul 2006 17:02:48 +0200 Subject: release notes ready for translation (FC6 test2) In-Reply-To: <1152706957.7064.89.camel@erato.phig.org> References: <1152706957.7064.89.camel@erato.phig.org> Message-ID: <1152889368.2756.29.camel@MrTomLinux.workstation> Le mercredi 12 juillet 2006 ? 05:22 -0700, Karsten Wade a ?crit : > The release notes are ready for translation. We apologize for the delay > (about 14 hours) as we work through new processes. > > The new POT file is found at: > > cvs.fedoraproject.org:/cvs/docs/release-notes/devel/po/RELEASE-NOTES.pot > > The files in devel/ (and the docs-common module) have been tagged in CVS > with "ready-for-translation-FC6-test2". > > If you have any questions, fedora-docs-list is probably the best place > to ask. > > - Karsten I checked the new pot file and i think it is useless to lose time changing all the "Fedora Core" strings to "Fedora Core 6 test2". That means that there will be a new issue for the release note with a new modification to "Fedora Core 6 test2". Why not to write it plain "Fedora Core 6", as it is our main goal, and that release notes for test version are just kind of drafts ? -- Thomas Canniot http://www.fedoraproject.org/wiki/ThomasCanniot -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: signature.asc Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 189 bytes Desc: Ceci est une partie de message num?riquement sign?e URL: From dimitris at glezos.com Fri Jul 14 15:18:56 2006 From: dimitris at glezos.com (Dimitris Glezos) Date: Fri, 14 Jul 2006 16:18:56 +0100 Subject: release notes ready for translation (FC6 test2) In-Reply-To: <1152889368.2756.29.camel@MrTomLinux.workstation> References: <1152706957.7064.89.camel@erato.phig.org> <1152889368.2756.29.camel@MrTomLinux.workstation> Message-ID: <44B7B5E0.50506@glezos.com> O/H Thomas Canniot ??????: > I checked the new pot file and i think it is useless to lose time > changing all the "Fedora Core" strings to "Fedora Core 6 test2". That > means that there will be a new issue for the release note with a new > modification to "Fedora Core 6 test2". > > Why not to write it plain "Fedora Core 6", as it is our main goal, and > that release notes for test version are just kind of drafts ? Or even better, translate the string only once and use that entity wherever it is needed? -dim -- Dimitris Glezos Jabber ID: glezos at jabber.org, GPG: 0xA5A04C3B http://dimitris.glezos.com/ "He who gives up functionality for ease of use loses both and deserves neither." (Anonymous) -- From cepxat at gmail.com Fri Jul 14 19:32:46 2006 From: cepxat at gmail.com (=?ISO-8859-1?Q?Serhat_G=FCng=F6r?=) Date: Fri, 14 Jul 2006 22:32:46 +0300 Subject: Self Introduction : Serhat GUNGOR In-Reply-To: <1152839844.12193.47.camel@localhost.localdomain> References: <6894514e0607121311o698c8ab1q8318d53567e8619d@mail.gmail.com> <1152839844.12193.47.camel@localhost.localdomain> Message-ID: <6894514e0607141232t29e68843w36c0f0db832c6639@mail.gmail.com> I already singed up for access to the cvsdocs group in the Fedora Account System but my membership isn't approved. I think it must be approved by an admin. When I look my membership from the accounts home i see as the following. Group NameUsernameRole DomainRole TypeRole StatusSponsor ambassadors cepxat user approved *Unneeded* cla_done cepxat None user approved *Unneeded* cvsdocs cepxat user unapproved *Unneeded* What should i do for to be approved? Thanks, Serhat On 7/14/06, Paul W. Frields wrote: > > On Wed, 2006-07-12 at 23:11 +0300, Serhat G?ng?r wrote: > > Hi, > > I'm Serhat GUNGOR from Istanbul, Turkey. I'm a Computer Engineer and > > using linux nearly 4 years. Before Fedora i was using Red Hat. Till > > last week i was working as system administrator in Istanbul Technical > > University(ITU) which is the one of the big universities of Turkey. > > Mostly Red Hat Enterprise L?nux is used there in the server side. In > > the client side more than 1000 computers are Fedora. We started a a > > Linux Education program in ITU which is called ITU Linux Academy > > ( http://ila.itu.edu.tr -- page is in Turkish) and had lots of > > students from university or out of the university. Now i'm working at > > Turkey's biggest GSM operator. > > > > I am working on Fedora Translation Project and i will be leading the > > Turkish team. And to make people join the translation project, firstly > > i want to translate quick-start-guide to Turkish. > > Welcome Serhat. If you haven't already signed up for access to the > cvsdocs group in the Fedora Account System, please do so. We're proud > to have you and all our hard-working translators aboard. They've been > doing a splendid job recently and we're hoping to have lots of > translations for documents out for the FC6 cycle. > > We are very close to having release notes in the i18n.redhat.com system, > so keep a lookout there. We'll of course post to this list and > fedora-trans-list when it's ready. > > If you need any help getting started here, please let us know. > > -- > Paul W. Frields, RHCE http://paul.frields.org/ > gpg fingerprint: 3DA6 A0AC 6D58 FEC4 0233 5906 ACDB C937 BD11 3717 > Fedora Project Board: http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Board > Fedora Docs Project: http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/DocsProject > > -- > fedora-docs-list mailing list > fedora-docs-list at redhat.com > To unsubscribe: > https://www.redhat.com/mailman/listinfo/fedora-docs-list > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From kwade at redhat.com Fri Jul 14 23:15:46 2006 From: kwade at redhat.com (Karsten Wade) Date: Fri, 14 Jul 2006 16:15:46 -0700 Subject: release notes ready for translation (FC6 test2) In-Reply-To: <1152889368.2756.29.camel@MrTomLinux.workstation> References: <1152706957.7064.89.camel@erato.phig.org> <1152889368.2756.29.camel@MrTomLinux.workstation> Message-ID: <1152918947.2484.24.camel@erato.phig.org> On Fri, 2006-07-14 at 17:02 +0200, Thomas Canniot wrote: > I checked the new pot file and i think it is useless to lose time > changing all the "Fedora Core" strings to "Fedora Core 6 test2". That > means that there will be a new issue for the release note with a new > modification to "Fedora Core 6 test2". > > Why not to write it plain "Fedora Core 6", as it is our main goal, and > that release notes for test version are just kind of drafts ? The release notes are actually specific to the test version they go with. We have had situations where the content is only relevant for that test release, and changes for the next test. However, there certainly must be a better way. Are we unable to use an ENTITY or XInclude? I forgot the status of that technique. - Karsten -- Karsten Wade, RHCE, 108 Editor ^ Fedora Documentation Project Sr. Developer Relations Mgr. | fedoraproject.org/wiki/DocsProject quaid.108.redhat.com | gpg key: AD0E0C41 ////////////////////////////////// \\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\ -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: signature.asc Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 189 bytes Desc: This is a digitally signed message part URL: From stickster at gmail.com Sat Jul 15 03:29:09 2006 From: stickster at gmail.com (Paul W. Frields) Date: Fri, 14 Jul 2006 23:29:09 -0400 Subject: release notes ready for translation (FC6 test2) In-Reply-To: <1152918947.2484.24.camel@erato.phig.org> References: <1152706957.7064.89.camel@erato.phig.org> <1152889368.2756.29.camel@MrTomLinux.workstation> <1152918947.2484.24.camel@erato.phig.org> Message-ID: <1152934150.28994.4.camel@localhost.localdomain> On Fri, 2006-07-14 at 16:15 -0700, Karsten Wade wrote: > On Fri, 2006-07-14 at 17:02 +0200, Thomas Canniot wrote: > > > I checked the new pot file and i think it is useless to lose time > > changing all the "Fedora Core" strings to "Fedora Core 6 test2". That > > means that there will be a new issue for the release note with a new > > modification to "Fedora Core 6 test2". > > > > Why not to write it plain "Fedora Core 6", as it is our main goal, and > > that release notes for test version are just kind of drafts ? > > The release notes are actually specific to the test version they go > with. > > We have had situations where the content is only relevant for that test > release, and changes for the next test. > > However, there certainly must be a better way. Are we unable to use an > ENTITY or XInclude? I forgot the status of that technique. Unfortunately, the workings of xml2po and xmllint make this well-nigh impossible for us. The lesser of two evils was to parse the entities before they arrive in the POT file. If this bothers you -- and I do sympathize, believe me -- when we switch to Fedora Core 6 test3, you can do this: sed -i 's/6 test2/6 test3/' XX.po # test2 -> test3 sed -i 's/6 test3/6/' XX.po # test3 -> final That should take care of most everyone. I don't think anyone localizes the string "test2" on its own since it's a program appellation. Are there any reasons this wouldn't work for translators? -- Paul W. Frields, RHCE http://paul.frields.org/ gpg fingerprint: 3DA6 A0AC 6D58 FEC4 0233 5906 ACDB C937 BD11 3717 Fedora Project Board: http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Board Fedora Docs Project: http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/DocsProject -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: signature.asc Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 189 bytes Desc: This is a digitally signed message part URL: From dimitris at glezos.com Sat Jul 15 14:36:30 2006 From: dimitris at glezos.com (Dimitris Glezos) Date: Sat, 15 Jul 2006 15:36:30 +0100 Subject: Guide on release notes translation? In-Reply-To: <1152322600.16657.512.camel@erato.phig.org> References: <44A32CA8.10103@glezos.com> <44ADB0EC.1040102@glezos.com> <1152322600.16657.512.camel@erato.phig.org> Message-ID: <44B8FD6E.8020305@glezos.com> Bringing this up again, since I got frustrated (again) today while trying to understand how to organise an efficient translation procedure for the release-notes. O/H Karsten Wade ??????: >>> * What's the best way to retain the translated parts of the older beats >>> without translating them again? > > This are questions that are going to matter when going from test2 -> > test3. None of the content from FC5 is relevant, although there may be > some exceptions if a beat writer retains something. As I see it, much of the content is relevant and needs not re-translation. Probably the best way for a translator to save time is to translate one relnotes document (say, test2) and then put his translations in the tranlation memory and fuzzy-translate the next .po. > As we get closer to the release, some content is added, some is changed. > We do want to collect some how-tos/tips for translators for keeping > translated strings where there have been no changes. For this to work effiently, we could clarify to the translators which strings/sections are most likely to be edited and which are most likely not to change until the release (like, say, section titles). This way, the translation could start earlier than the FC6 release freeze, by translating the not-likely-to-be-changed strings. >>> If there is such a page (targeted for translators, not beat writers), >>> someone please point it out to me (sorry for not finding it). >>>actual >>> If not, then I believe such a page would be useful, because the >>> translation of the release notes are somewhat different from the rest of >>> the docs. > > http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/DocsProject/Translation is all that I know > of. Perhaps you can help write such a page at > DocsProject/ReleaseNotes/Translation? Karsten, I am very confused on how the whole release-notes production procedure and I can't create such a page. I can help though after one who understands the procedure add some content. Sure, the .po creation procedure is not yet fixed. But, at least a document describing how and why each .po was created, would really help us to understand how things work and how to organize the translation. I am sure I am not the only translator confused about all these .po files that change all the time and duplicate each other's content. (Even devel/en_US release-notes compilation with `make html` fails right now due to a Kernel.xml produces an xml validation error.) I think the work everybody is doing is great and of high quality, please don't get me wrong. It's just that this confusion will probably result to the relnotes not being translated for the test releases and probably not making it for the final release either. Which is a shame. :/ We need (more) instructions on how (the relnotes specific) things work so that we can participate. :) -dim -- Dimitris Glezos Jabber ID: glezos at jabber.org, PGP: 0xA5A04C3B http://dimitris.glezos.com/ "He who gives up functionality for ease of use loses both and deserves neither." (Anonymous) -- From kwade at redhat.com Mon Jul 17 23:19:23 2006 From: kwade at redhat.com (Karsten Wade) Date: Mon, 17 Jul 2006 16:19:23 -0700 Subject: translation and two CVSes Message-ID: <1153178364.2589.34.camel@erato.phig.org> Just in case there is any confusion ... We got the RELEASE-NOTES.pot a few days late into i18n.r.c, and we did not get a chance to document many procedures. From a Fedora Documentation (FDP) view, existing FDP translators are the lead translators for RELEASE-NOTES.pot for your language. If you are not working directly with the existing language team in the Fedora Translation Project, you now should be. The merging of PO files from i18n.r.c -> cvs.fedoraproject.o is going to be handled manually by A S Alam of Fedora Trans. Keep backups of your PO files, in case we need to manage any conflicts across the two CVS systems. Hopefully there are no conflicts, especially with merging PO files. If anyone has any questions or conflicts they cannot resolve, either email this list or myself. Thanks - Karsten -- Karsten Wade, RHCE, 108 Editor ^ Fedora Documentation Project Sr. Developer Relations Mgr. | fedoraproject.org/wiki/DocsProject quaid.108.redhat.com | gpg key: AD0E0C41 ////////////////////////////////// \\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\ -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: signature.asc Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 189 bytes Desc: This is a digitally signed message part URL: From rue.steffan at googlemail.com Wed Jul 19 21:17:36 2006 From: rue.steffan at googlemail.com (Ruediger Steffan) Date: Wed, 19 Jul 2006 23:17:36 +0200 Subject: Self-Intruduction: Ruediger Steffan Message-ID: Hello, I am Ruediger Steffan from Pforzheim, Germany. My job is technical customer advisor and in spare time I do distance studying for economic engineering (field of corporate management and commercial information technology). I am using Linux since one year, first I started with Suse, but changed to fedora and stayed with it soon. I would like to take part on the team for translation in German. Kindest regards, Ruediger Steffan Key-ID and fingerprint: pub 1024D/481B09C8 2006-07-17 [expires: 2007-07-17] fingerprint = 123A 42F3 12FD 94CD 51EB EE67 C2FA BEB8 481B 09C8 uid Ruediger Steffan sub 2048g/000A87EC 2006-07-17 [expires: 2007-07-17] -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From stickster at gmail.com Wed Jul 19 23:54:38 2006 From: stickster at gmail.com (Paul W. Frields) Date: Wed, 19 Jul 2006 19:54:38 -0400 Subject: Self-Intruduction: Ruediger Steffan In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <1153353278.5739.15.camel@localhost.localdomain> On Wed, 2006-07-19 at 23:17 +0200, Ruediger Steffan wrote: > Hello, > I am Ruediger Steffan from Pforzheim, Germany. My job is technical > customer advisor and in spare time I do distance studying for economic > engineering (field of corporate management and commercial information > technology). I am using Linux since one year, first I started with > Suse, but changed to fedora and stayed with it soon. > I would like to take part on the team for translation in German. Ruediger, it's great to have you aboard for helping with Fedora. Please feel fee to get started with our "first steps" documents: http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/DocsProject/NewWriters http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/DocsProject/Translation -- Paul W. Frields, RHCE http://paul.frields.org/ gpg fingerprint: 3DA6 A0AC 6D58 FEC4 0233 5906 ACDB C937 BD11 3717 Fedora Project Board: http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Board Fedora Docs Project: http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/DocsProject -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: signature.asc Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 189 bytes Desc: This is a digitally signed message part URL: From sundaram at fedoraproject.org Fri Jul 21 03:58:04 2006 From: sundaram at fedoraproject.org (Rahul) Date: Fri, 21 Jul 2006 09:28:04 +0530 Subject: Fedora Installation Guide writer opening In-Reply-To: <1152859668.7064.383.camel@erato.phig.org> References: <1152859668.7064.383.camel@erato.phig.org> Message-ID: <44C050CC.6030508@fedoraproject.org> Karsten Wade wrote: > There is an open author/maintainer position for the Fedora Installation > Guide for FC6. > > It would be good to get a beta available for use for test3. This allows > us to gain the advantage of release early, release often. > > This is a fairly important book and high profile. If you'd like to get > involved in a meaningful documentation project, take a look at: > > http://fedora.redhat.com/docs/fedora-install-guide-en/fc5/ > > And contact us back here on this thread to discuss your participation. > So absolutely noone wants to get involved? We have a fair list of potential people here - http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/DocsProject/Contributors Rahul From journo_bouy at hotmail.co.uk Fri Jul 21 11:00:46 2006 From: journo_bouy at hotmail.co.uk (Adam Moreland) Date: Fri, 21 Jul 2006 11:00:46 +0000 Subject: Fedora Installation Guide writer opening In-Reply-To: <44C050CC.6030508@fedoraproject.org> Message-ID: Rahul, Karsten, Id get involved. I have already done some personal reviews, and work on FC6 and would be willing to help compile and write (with loads of help im sure!!) an install guide. I am a good writer, but have never written *anything* for fedora-docs, just for my own website. I am willing to step up and do this. I enjoy a challenge. If you still are looking for someone, and want me to write or assist, or even edit (which i do already), then let me know. Hope i can help some more. MAniX Mr Adam L Moreland (MAniX) | Registered Linux User: #417406 BA (Hons) Media Studies, 2nd Year, UoN WEB: http://www.manix-place.co.uk BLOG:http://www.2welshmen-and-a-sheep.co.uk **** System: Pentium 4 SKT478 2.8GHz Precott, AMD Athlon XP-M 2800+ | GPG Key: AC230C32 **** pub 1024D/AC230C32 2006-05-21 Key fingerprint = 14F4 50F5 806C 25A5 B33C C2BF 982C 87B7 AC23 0C32 uid Adam Moreland (MAniX) sub 2048g/A471FCE7 2006-05-21 **** >From: Rahul >Reply-To: For participants of the Documentation Project > >To: For participants of the Documentation Project > >Subject: Re: Fedora Installation Guide writer opening >Date: Fri, 21 Jul 2006 09:28:04 +0530 > >Karsten Wade wrote: >>There is an open author/maintainer position for the Fedora Installation >>Guide for FC6. >> >>It would be good to get a beta available for use for test3. This allows >>us to gain the advantage of release early, release often. >> >>This is a fairly important book and high profile. If you'd like to get >>involved in a meaningful documentation project, take a look at: >> >>http://fedora.redhat.com/docs/fedora-install-guide-en/fc5/ >> >>And contact us back here on this thread to discuss your participation. >> > >So absolutely noone wants to get involved? > >We have a fair list of potential people here - >http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/DocsProject/Contributors > >Rahul > >-- >fedora-docs-list mailing list >fedora-docs-list at redhat.com >To unsubscribe: https://www.redhat.com/mailman/listinfo/fedora-docs-list _________________________________________________________________ Be the first to hear what's new at MSN - sign up to our free newsletters! http://www.msn.co.uk/newsletters From kwade at redhat.com Fri Jul 21 17:32:48 2006 From: kwade at redhat.com (Karsten Wade) Date: Fri, 21 Jul 2006 10:32:48 -0700 Subject: Fedora Installation Guide writer opening In-Reply-To: <44C050CC.6030508@fedoraproject.org> References: <1152859668.7064.383.camel@erato.phig.org> <44C050CC.6030508@fedoraproject.org> Message-ID: <1153503168.1313.51.camel@erato.phig.org> On Fri, 2006-07-21 at 09:28 +0530, Rahul wrote: > So absolutely noone wants to get involved? > > We have a fair list of potential people here - > http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/DocsProject/Contributors Personally, I would like to know what the other 95% of our 600+ subscribers are interested in doing ... and why they are not doing it. As has been said, they can't really be only interested in "learned discussions of documentation tools." - Karsten -- Karsten Wade, RHCE, 108 Editor ^ Fedora Documentation Project Sr. Developer Relations Mgr. | fedoraproject.org/wiki/DocsProject quaid.108.redhat.com | gpg key: AD0E0C41 ////////////////////////////////// \\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\ -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: signature.asc Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 189 bytes Desc: This is a digitally signed message part URL: From rostetter at mail.utexas.edu Fri Jul 21 17:42:19 2006 From: rostetter at mail.utexas.edu (Eric Rostetter) Date: Fri, 21 Jul 2006 12:42:19 -0500 Subject: Fedora Installation Guide writer opening In-Reply-To: <1153503168.1313.51.camel@erato.phig.org> References: <1152859668.7064.383.camel@erato.phig.org> <44C050CC.6030508@fedoraproject.org> <1153503168.1313.51.camel@erato.phig.org> Message-ID: <20060721124219.zjwl3vs3gxwkw04k@mail.ph.utexas.edu> Quoting Karsten Wade : > Personally, I would like to know what the other 95% of our 600+ > subscribers are interested in doing ... and why they are not doing it. I joined the list to help interface between Fedora Documentation Project and the Fedora Legacy Project. At the time I was heavily involved in the Fedora Legacy Project. Since then, I had a big project at work that took all my time, and I've not done much of anything with either of the above two groups. My main interest would be either with FLP <-> FDP interfacing, or with simply helping edit docs others write. I _might_ at some point actually think about writting a doc, but that's not really why I'm here. > As has been said, they can't really be only interested in "learned > discussions of documentation tools." I'm sure a few are, actually, but not most. ;) -- Eric Rostetter The Department of Physics The University of Texas at Austin Go Longhorns! From ajchida at gmail.com Fri Jul 21 17:45:56 2006 From: ajchida at gmail.com (Chidananda Jayakeerti) Date: Fri, 21 Jul 2006 23:15:56 +0530 Subject: Fedora Installation Guide writer opening In-Reply-To: <1153503168.1313.51.camel@erato.phig.org> References: <1152859668.7064.383.camel@erato.phig.org> <44C050CC.6030508@fedoraproject.org> <1153503168.1313.51.camel@erato.phig.org> Message-ID: <71b7a9890607211045o11816a67p897fc5c13eac6f25@mail.gmail.com> On 7/21/06, Karsten Wade wrote: > > On Fri, 2006-07-21 at 09:28 +0530, Rahul wrote: > > > So absolutely noone wants to get involved? > > > > We have a fair list of potential people here - > > http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/DocsProject/Contributors > > Personally, I would like to know what the other 95% of our 600+ > subscribers are interested in doing ... and why they are not doing it. > > As has been said, they can't really be only interested in "learned > discussions of documentation tools." Hello, I've been lurking here for a while and it's time I participate. I'm interested in helping with the installation guide. I've some writing experience. I will do my Self-Introduction shortly :) Chida -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From stickster at gmail.com Fri Jul 21 17:54:57 2006 From: stickster at gmail.com (Paul W. Frields) Date: Fri, 21 Jul 2006 13:54:57 -0400 Subject: Fedora Installation Guide writer opening In-Reply-To: <1153503168.1313.51.camel@erato.phig.org> References: <1152859668.7064.383.camel@erato.phig.org> <44C050CC.6030508@fedoraproject.org> <1153503168.1313.51.camel@erato.phig.org> Message-ID: <1153504497.481.15.camel@localhost.localdomain> On Fri, 2006-07-21 at 10:32 -0700, Karsten Wade wrote: > On Fri, 2006-07-21 at 09:28 +0530, Rahul wrote: > > > So absolutely noone wants to get involved? > > > > We have a fair list of potential people here - > > http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/DocsProject/Contributors > > Personally, I would like to know what the other 95% of our 600+ > subscribers are interested in doing ... and why they are not doing it. > > As has been said, they can't really be only interested in "learned > discussions of documentation tools." Look here bub, do not underestimate the perennial appeal of my sparkling sense of humor. Heck, all these lurkers should join fedora-docs-commits and watch my CVS changes and then they'll REALLY get good laughs. And that's not even my comments, just the code. ;-D But seriously, it's same as it ever was... a few people shoulder 95% of the work, just like any large project -- open source or not, come to think of it! Not bitter, just at peace with it (this week). And hey, maybe it's just that a lot of them haven't seen anything of particular interest yet. Self-starters gratefully welcomed, especially *content writers*. -- Paul W. Frields, RHCE http://paul.frields.org/ gpg fingerprint: 3DA6 A0AC 6D58 FEC4 0233 5906 ACDB C937 BD11 3717 Fedora Project Board: http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Board Fedora Docs Project: http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/DocsProject -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: signature.asc Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 189 bytes Desc: This is a digitally signed message part URL: From stickster at gmail.com Fri Jul 21 18:41:36 2006 From: stickster at gmail.com (Paul W. Frields) Date: Fri, 21 Jul 2006 14:41:36 -0400 Subject: Fedora Installation Guide writer opening In-Reply-To: <71b7a9890607211045o11816a67p897fc5c13eac6f25@mail.gmail.com> References: <1152859668.7064.383.camel@erato.phig.org> <44C050CC.6030508@fedoraproject.org> <1153503168.1313.51.camel@erato.phig.org> <71b7a9890607211045o11816a67p897fc5c13eac6f25@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <1153507296.481.20.camel@localhost.localdomain> On Fri, 2006-07-21 at 23:15 +0530, Chidananda Jayakeerti wrote: > > > On 7/21/06, Karsten Wade wrote: > On Fri, 2006-07-21 at 09:28 +0530, Rahul wrote: > > > So absolutely noone wants to get involved? > > > > We have a fair list of potential people here - > > http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/DocsProject/Contributors > > Personally, I would like to know what the other 95% of our 600 > + > subscribers are interested in doing ... and why they are not > doing it. > > As has been said, they can't really be only interested in > "learned > discussions of documentation tools." > > Hello, > > I've been lurking here for a while and it's time I participate. I'm > interested in helping with the installation guide. I've some writing > experience. > > I will do my Self-Introduction shortly :) Brilliant! Looking forward to it, Chida, and welcome. -- Paul W. Frields, RHCE http://paul.frields.org/ gpg fingerprint: 3DA6 A0AC 6D58 FEC4 0233 5906 ACDB C937 BD11 3717 Fedora Project Board: http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Board Fedora Docs Project: http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/DocsProject -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: signature.asc Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 189 bytes Desc: This is a digitally signed message part URL: From journo_bouy at hotmail.co.uk Fri Jul 21 19:37:00 2006 From: journo_bouy at hotmail.co.uk (Adam Moreland) Date: Fri, 21 Jul 2006 19:37:00 +0000 Subject: Fedora Installation Guide writer opening In-Reply-To: <1153507296.481.20.camel@localhost.localdomain> Message-ID: Everyone, Earlier i posted saying i too would like to be involved in writing this guide. I have had much experience, as has been written in my self-intro ages ago. I lurk, and am still keeping note of changes with the Games wikis that i edit, though time has been short recently with studies at uni, being with my wife, making money, and trying to develop my writing, by doing articles for publication. I know Rahul submitted my FC6 Test 1 review to Fedora Weekly News (FWN). I have been keen to do some writing, but lack the technical aspect of the writing. I can review and do technical install guides, and one need only look at my ndiswrapper wireless guide (yes, yes i know it is taboo and forbidden on fedora-docs hence not published), which will be submitted soon to fedora unity project. In short i am a writer of many small articles, over 75 to be precise, inc technical, and freelance pieces. I am really interested in doing a lot more work. I may be appearing to be one of the 95% of 600+ people who dont get involved, but i am not. I didnt really get on with cvs much, as i didnt understand its usage, as those who helped when i first joined are painfully aware (Karsten, Paul, etc). I am however keen and active as work allows, and to learn all i need to in order to be an active writer/editor. Please accept this as an offer to do the writing. Any editor who is willing to help refine my work to technical docs standard, please guide me. Below i have just outlined my technical background, just for those wishing to see if i am right for such a project. Karsten, consider me a part of the team, or not, but i do wish to work and be involved in both writing and wiki editing. I shall hope to devote more time to this good project. TECHNICAL: * 75-odd articles published, inc 50+ for magazines, and newspapers, (Seen, UNique, Northampton Union Times, ADDNews, Student Voice, Credenhill Parish News, Poetry Week) and 25 technical articles, some self published under GPL/OPL, on www.manix-place.co.uk, and www.2welshmen and a sheep.co.uk, Fedora Weekly News, and Fedorazine * proficient and skilled in Access databases, OpenOffice.org, MS Office, Visual Basic 6.0, Visual Basic .Net, Visual C++ ver 6.0 (VS 6.0), Visual C++ .Net, C++, HTML and aspects of Perl. * Blog writer, political commentator, and citizen journalist with strong writing background * Linux user (#417406) using Fedora Core 5, SuSE Linux 10.1, Ubuntu 6.06, and tester of Fedora Core 6, with registered bugzilla account * Active user on fedoraforum.org, with lots of technical knowedge learned and passed on again EDUCATION: 2004-2007 ? University of Northampton ? BA. (Hons) Media Studies Subjects Studied include Politics, Media, Law, Journalism Media Analysis, Editorial Practice 2003-2004 - Hereford Sixth Form College ? A-Levels English Literature [B], General Studies [B], Computing [E] 2002-2003 ? Hereford Sixth Form College ? A/S Levels Drama and Theatre Studies [D], Critical Thinking [C] 1997-2002 - Haywood High School ? 10 GCSE'S English Literature [A], I.C.T. [A], Religious Studies [A], French [B], English Language [B], Mathematics [C] Biology [C], Chemistry [C], Physics [C], English [C] Mr Adam L Moreland (MAniX) | Registered Linux User: #417406 BA (Hons) Media Studies, 2nd Year, UoN WEB: http://www.manix-place.co.uk BLOG:http://www.2welshmen-and-a-sheep.co.uk **** System: Pentium 4 SKT478 2.8GHz Precott, AMD Athlon XP-M 2800+ | GPG Key: AC230C32 **** pub 1024D/AC230C32 2006-05-21 Key fingerprint = 14F4 50F5 806C 25A5 B33C C2BF 982C 87B7 AC23 0C32 uid Adam Moreland (MAniX) sub 2048g/A471FCE7 2006-05-21 **** >From: "Paul W. Frields" >Reply-To: For participants of the Documentation Project > >To: For participants of the Documentation Project > >Subject: Re: Fedora Installation Guide writer opening >Date: Fri, 21 Jul 2006 14:41:36 -0400 > >On Fri, 2006-07-21 at 23:15 +0530, Chidananda Jayakeerti wrote: > > > > > > On 7/21/06, Karsten Wade wrote: > > On Fri, 2006-07-21 at 09:28 +0530, Rahul wrote: > > > > > So absolutely noone wants to get involved? > > > > > > We have a fair list of potential people here - > > > http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/DocsProject/Contributors > > > > Personally, I would like to know what the other 95% of our 600 > > + > > subscribers are interested in doing ... and why they are not > > doing it. > > > > As has been said, they can't really be only interested in > > "learned > > discussions of documentation tools." > > > > Hello, > > > > I've been lurking here for a while and it's time I participate. I'm > > interested in helping with the installation guide. I've some writing > > experience. > > > > I will do my Self-Introduction shortly :) > >Brilliant! Looking forward to it, Chida, and welcome. > >-- >Paul W. Frields, RHCE http://paul.frields.org/ > gpg fingerprint: 3DA6 A0AC 6D58 FEC4 0233 5906 ACDB C937 BD11 3717 > Fedora Project Board: http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Board > Fedora Docs Project: http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/DocsProject ><< signature.asc >> >-- >fedora-docs-list mailing list >fedora-docs-list at redhat.com >To unsubscribe: >https://www.redhat.com/mailman/listinfo/fedora-docs-list _________________________________________________________________ Windows Live? Messenger has arrived. Click here to download it for free! http://imagine-msn.com/messenger/launch80/?locale=en-gb From robert_chapman at maximhq.com Fri Jul 21 19:52:40 2006 From: robert_chapman at maximhq.com (Robert F. Chapman) Date: Fri, 21 Jul 2006 12:52:40 -0700 Subject: Fedora Installation Guide writer opening Message-ID: <1153511560.31810.176.camel@robert-chapman.testeng.maximhq.com> I wouldn't mind getting involved with the Installation guide. I really think I need some guidance and mentoring to get started. I have looked at many of the guides but still haven't found a starting place. I'm very new to the Doc-Book style and methods. I have yet to to find a tool to help me with creating Doc-Book documents, by hand is fine as well (vi is my close friend). I am currently working on a couple of documents for my work, I am trying BlueFish as an editor, as it seems to handle many of the tags for doc-book. I need to come up with a development environment that allows me to easily turn my plain text ruff drafts into well structured documents. Examples of others development environments and methods would be most helpful to get me started. Questions: Is the Installation Guide being re-written or just updated/improved for FC6. I have yet to install FC6-test1, and will have to do so. Are others/developers providing information for the guide or would I be a sole contributor? Are there any members of the doc-list, located in the S.F. Bay area that I would be able to meet with to help get me started? I work in Sunnyvale Calif. and love Starbucks. I also frequent a couple of the local Linux Users Groups. Thanks, Robert Chapman From ajchida at gmail.com Sat Jul 22 04:45:23 2006 From: ajchida at gmail.com (Chidananda Jayakeerti) Date: Sat, 22 Jul 2006 10:15:23 +0530 Subject: Fedora Installation Guide writer opening In-Reply-To: <1153511560.31810.176.camel@robert-chapman.testeng.maximhq.com> References: <1153511560.31810.176.camel@robert-chapman.testeng.maximhq.com> Message-ID: <71b7a9890607212145k23446a2bqaea2331b6368005a@mail.gmail.com> On 7/22/06, Robert F. Chapman wrote: > > I wouldn't mind getting involved with the Installation guide. I really > think I need some guidance and mentoring to get started. I have looked > at many of the guides but still haven't found a starting place. > > I'm very new to the Doc-Book style and methods. I have yet to to find a > tool to help me with creating Doc-Book documents, by hand is fine as > well (vi is my close friend). I am currently working on a couple of > documents for my work, I am trying BlueFish as an editor, as it seems to > handle many of the tags for doc-book. > > I need to come up with a development environment that allows me to > easily turn my plain text ruff drafts into well structured documents. > Examples of others development environments and methods would be most > helpful to get me started. > > > Questions: > > Is the Installation Guide being re-written or just updated/improved for > FC6. > > I have yet to install FC6-test1, and will have to do so. Are > others/developers providing information for the guide or would I be a > sole contributor? > > Are there any members of the doc-list, located in the S.F. Bay area that > I would be able to meet with to help get me started? I work in Sunnyvale > Calif. and love Starbucks. I also frequent a couple of the local Linux > Users Groups. Hello Robert, I feel at home with vi for docbook and wouldn't mind a better tool to edit documents. Currently I use vi to edit docbook documents and use the docbook utils to convert them to the necessary formats. Using vi and rendering with docbook-tools is laborious and time consuming. I'm curious about the development environment of other writers as well and wonder if there are any better tools/methods for document generation. Chida -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From edward.haddock at hawaiiantel.net Sat Jul 22 04:53:50 2006 From: edward.haddock at hawaiiantel.net (Edward Haddock) Date: Fri, 21 Jul 2006 18:53:50 -1000 Subject: Something I wrote up and want feedback on Message-ID: <1153544030.4963.2.camel@localhost.localdomain> I wrote this a while back and am still looking at it but would like to get some feedback from everyone on where it would fit. Thanks, Ed ======================================================================= Aloha. Let me share with you a rewarding experience that happened to me. I was using an Operating System(OS) and I enjoyed it very much. The philosophy behind this OS was that freedom is the most important thing. Choice mattered. I grew with the OS over time and can honestly say that I am still a novice in many respects. But that is alright. The OS will accommodate me just fine and if I have problems, there are many folks who have traveled this path as well who are willing to help. My experience started when I decided that I needed to give to this OS. At first I did not know where to contribute. I looked around and there are places where you can contribute to individual products but nothing that contributed specifically to the OS I was using. Then I found http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/DocsProject and I was amazed. I did not have to be a programmer or computer expert to help. All I needed to do was help write about something I believed in. Imagine my trepidation if you can for a moment. I was worried about being swamped with demands to program or perhaps even work with deep technical subjects of Unix Arcana. I was certainly a little worried that I would not be able to help. But, I am happy to report, the exact opposite is true. I have been welcomed with open arms and open minds. Fitting, don't you think, for an Open source Operating System? I do. That is what the Fedora Documentation Project has done for me. There are many reasons to join. Like these; http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/DocsProject/WhyJoin ======================================================================== -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: signature.asc Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 189 bytes Desc: This is a digitally signed message part URL: From stickster at gmail.com Sat Jul 22 12:29:31 2006 From: stickster at gmail.com (Paul W. Frields) Date: Sat, 22 Jul 2006 08:29:31 -0400 Subject: Something I wrote up and want feedback on In-Reply-To: <1153544030.4963.2.camel@localhost.localdomain> References: <1153544030.4963.2.camel@localhost.localdomain> Message-ID: <1153571371.22412.7.camel@localhost.localdomain> On Fri, 2006-07-21 at 18:53 -1000, Edward Haddock wrote: > I wrote this a while back and am still looking at it but would like to > get some feedback from everyone on where it would fit. > Thanks, Ed [...snip...] Perhaps an OSNews or NewsForge article? -- Paul W. Frields, RHCE http://paul.frields.org/ gpg fingerprint: 3DA6 A0AC 6D58 FEC4 0233 5906 ACDB C937 BD11 3717 Fedora Project Board: http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Board Fedora Docs Project: http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/DocsProject -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: signature.asc Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 189 bytes Desc: This is a digitally signed message part URL: From stickster at gmail.com Sat Jul 22 13:21:45 2006 From: stickster at gmail.com (Paul W. Frields) Date: Sat, 22 Jul 2006 09:21:45 -0400 Subject: Fedora Installation Guide writer opening In-Reply-To: <1153511560.31810.176.camel@robert-chapman.testeng.maximhq.com> References: <1153511560.31810.176.camel@robert-chapman.testeng.maximhq.com> Message-ID: <1153574505.22412.36.camel@localhost.localdomain> On Fri, 2006-07-21 at 12:52 -0700, Robert F. Chapman wrote: > I wouldn't mind getting involved with the Installation guide. I really > think I need some guidance and mentoring to get started. I have looked > at many of the guides but still haven't found a starting place. > > I'm very new to the Doc-Book style and methods. I have yet to to find a > tool to help me with creating Doc-Book documents, by hand is fine as > well (vi is my close friend). I am currently working on a couple of > documents for my work, I am trying BlueFish as an editor, as it seems to > handle many of the tags for doc-book. Last I checked, unfortunately, BlueFish didn't do validation... has that changed? That's not really a showstopper though. (Validation, in case you're not familiar with it, is the process of checking that a document adheres to the DocBook definition -- in other words, that all the elements are legal, properly nested, etc.) > I need to come up with a development environment that allows me to > easily turn my plain text ruff drafts into well structured documents. > Examples of others development environments and methods would be most > helpful to get me started. The following was my experience in using both Big Kahuna editors; all further vi vs. Emacs comments to /dev/null, please: I was a vi guy before I joined FDP, and now I do Emacs almost exclusively. Its insane level of DocBook functionality is what tipped the scales for me. I struggled to get out of the habit of :w and into the habit of Ctrl-X Ctrl-S, but after I had been working in Emacs for a week or two it was second nature. Since it's a validating editor, if I use the keystrokes for opening and closing elements, Emacs makes sure I stay legal. I can't open a "wrong" element, and it always closes the nesting properly. If vi has these functions too you would do well to make use of them. There are very few other editors that will really do a good job of dealing with DocBook. You can try converting to OpenOffice.org and then saving to DocBook XML, but in general it misses a LOT of the elements and structure other than simple sections and headings. And it usually gets all the nesting wrong. The Conglomerate XML editor is a nice idea but frankly, it's just a GUIfication of a text-style editor, and one that crashes constantly at that. Plus it doesn't support DocBook XML V4.4, which is what we use around here now. Bluefish is pleasant to use but has very limited functionality -- it colors your tags and that's about it. (You can get the same in Emacs and, I would bet, Vim as well.) > Questions: > > Is the Installation Guide being re-written or just updated/improved for > FC6. If that's a question, where's your question mark? Oops, that was the editor in me coming out. ;-D Seriously though, it's probably not going to be thoroughly re-written for FC6 since FC6 itself is not a huge change from FC5. As the previous second-chair on the Installation Guide I'll be willing to oversee any team that wants to work on it, but we need to get started right away. I don't predict making major changes this time around. If we want to do so, nothing prevents us from waiting until after FC6 release to do the overhaul. > I have yet to install FC6-test1, and will have to do so. Are > others/developers providing information for the guide or would I be a > sole contributor? You're always part of a team around here. Refer to other recent email, case in point. > Are there any members of the doc-list, located in the S.F. Bay area that > I would be able to meet with to help get me started? I work in Sunnyvale > Calif. and love Starbucks. I also frequent a couple of the local Linux > Users Groups. Hey man, this is the 21st century! :-D Just hop on your IRC client on Freenode at #fedora-docs, where you will find people willing to answer questions and guide you. Email is sometimes lousy for that purpose because of the delay. What we do *NOT* want is for everybody to be working on things in their own sandboxes. That's a recipe for disaster and frustration. Because the canonical Installation Guide is in DocBook and in our CVS, we really need contributors willing to do what's necessary to learn these (pretty easy, really) technologies. It sounds like you're one of 'em, so get on #fedora-docs and let's talk! -- Paul W. Frields, RHCE http://paul.frields.org/ gpg fingerprint: 3DA6 A0AC 6D58 FEC4 0233 5906 ACDB C937 BD11 3717 Fedora Project Board: http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Board Fedora Docs Project: http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/DocsProject -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: signature.asc Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 189 bytes Desc: This is a digitally signed message part URL: From stickster at gmail.com Sat Jul 22 14:18:25 2006 From: stickster at gmail.com (Paul W. Frields) Date: Sat, 22 Jul 2006 10:18:25 -0400 Subject: Fedora Installation Guide writer opening In-Reply-To: <71b7a9890607212145k23446a2bqaea2331b6368005a@mail.gmail.com> References: <1153511560.31810.176.camel@robert-chapman.testeng.maximhq.com> <71b7a9890607212145k23446a2bqaea2331b6368005a@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <1153577905.22412.75.camel@localhost.localdomain> On Sat, 2006-07-22 at 10:15 +0530, Chidananda Jayakeerti wrote: > I feel at home with vi for docbook and wouldn't mind a better tool to > edit documents. Currently I use vi to edit docbook documents and use > the docbook utils to convert them to the necessary formats. Using vi > and rendering with docbook-tools is laborious and time consuming. > > I'm curious about the development environment of other writers as well > and wonder if there are any better tools/methods for document > generation. Most of the senior editors around here use Emacs and psgml. We have a complete toolchain for rendering documents into HTML so you can check output in your favorite Web browser. We can take original composition in other forms, but since the canonical IG is already in DocBook in our CVS, it really makes more sense to work on it there. If we have a team willing to work in DocBook and in CVS, and they do the necessary work to get a CVS account (CLA, etc.), I will be happy to sponsor them and we can simply restrict access to the installation-guide module for now. As an aside, plain text messages to the list are appreciated since HTML throws a lot of Linux email clients for a loop. -- Paul W. Frields, RHCE http://paul.frields.org/ gpg fingerprint: 3DA6 A0AC 6D58 FEC4 0233 5906 ACDB C937 BD11 3717 Fedora Project Board: http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Board Fedora Docs Project: http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/DocsProject -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: signature.asc Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 189 bytes Desc: This is a digitally signed message part URL: From stickster at gmail.com Sat Jul 22 14:19:37 2006 From: stickster at gmail.com (Paul W. Frields) Date: Sat, 22 Jul 2006 10:19:37 -0400 Subject: Fedora Installation Guide writer opening In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <1153577977.22412.78.camel@localhost.localdomain> On Fri, 2006-07-21 at 19:37 +0000, Adam Moreland wrote: [...snip...] > I am really interested in doing a lot more work. I may be appearing to be > one of the 95% of 600+ people who dont get involved, but i am not. I didnt > really get on with cvs much, as i didnt understand its usage, as those who > helped when i first joined are painfully aware (Karsten, Paul, etc). I am > however keen and active as work allows, and to learn all i need to in order > to be an active writer/editor. Please accept this as an offer to do the > writing. Any editor who is willing to help refine my work to technical docs > standard, please guide me. Below i have just outlined my technical > background, just for those wishing to see if i am right for such a project. > > Karsten, consider me a part of the team, or not, but i do wish to work and > be involved in both writing and wiki editing. I shall hope to devote more > time to this good project. [...snip...] Adam, we *do* appreciate your efforts. Besides, 5% of 600+ is at least 30 people, and we definitely want you on that list! Don't take any previous comments as directed at anyone in particular, I just wanted to make Karsten feel better. :-) Just because you don't grasp CVS fully right now, doesn't mean you can't learn. I was very tentative about it when I joined at first, and now it's old hat. People are available to help you -- that's why we hang around on Freenode IRC at #fedora-docs. If you'd rather drop mail to this list, we can help you there too. If you'd like to learn more about CVS, here's a couple places to start: Concepts: http://producingoss.com/html-chunk/vc.html Practice: http://ximbiot.com/cvs/manual/cvs-1.11.22/cvs_1.html#SEC1 -- Paul W. Frields, RHCE http://paul.frields.org/ gpg fingerprint: 3DA6 A0AC 6D58 FEC4 0233 5906 ACDB C937 BD11 3717 Fedora Project Board: http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Board Fedora Docs Project: http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/DocsProject -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: signature.asc Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 189 bytes Desc: This is a digitally signed message part URL: From kwade at redhat.com Sat Jul 22 14:35:39 2006 From: kwade at redhat.com (Karsten Wade) Date: Sat, 22 Jul 2006 07:35:39 -0700 Subject: Fedora Installation Guide writer opening In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <1153578939.1313.118.camel@erato.phig.org> On Fri, 2006-07-21 at 19:37 +0000, Adam Moreland wrote: > Karsten, consider me a part of the team, or not, but i do wish to work and > be involved in both writing and wiki editing. I shall hope to devote more > time to this good project. Worry not, my friend! You have the right approach. The iron is hot, time to strike, etc. :) - Karsten -- Karsten Wade, RHCE, 108 Editor ^ Fedora Documentation Project Sr. Developer Relations Mgr. | fedoraproject.org/wiki/DocsProject quaid.108.redhat.com | gpg key: AD0E0C41 ////////////////////////////////// \\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\ -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: signature.asc Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 189 bytes Desc: This is a digitally signed message part URL: From kwade at redhat.com Sat Jul 22 14:41:09 2006 From: kwade at redhat.com (Karsten Wade) Date: Sat, 22 Jul 2006 07:41:09 -0700 Subject: Fedora Installation Guide writer opening In-Reply-To: <1153504497.481.15.camel@localhost.localdomain> References: <1152859668.7064.383.camel@erato.phig.org> <44C050CC.6030508@fedoraproject.org> <1153503168.1313.51.camel@erato.phig.org> <1153504497.481.15.camel@localhost.localdomain> Message-ID: <1153579269.1313.125.camel@erato.phig.org> On Fri, 2006-07-21 at 13:54 -0400, Paul W. Frields wrote: > But seriously, it's same as it ever was... a few people shoulder 95% of > the work, just like any large project -- open source or not, come to > think of it! Not bitter, just at peace with it (this week). Oh, yeah, I was wicked bitter yesterday morning. You should have seen the internal email I sent on an unrelated {MUFFLE MUFFLE}. ;-) Besides, I'm slippery with the percentages. We have a good number of people on this list who are very active in document production, add that to quiet but active writers of Docs/Beats, and we're probably closer to 9% to 10%. :D My thing is community documentation, and you'll see this in my current work project. I strive for obnoxiously high percentages of contributors, by capturing and counting email/forum posts, blog entries, del.icio.us tagged work, etc. The days of a lone writer in green eyeshield and dangling cigarette banging away on an IBM Selectric in the newspaper basement, man, that is soooo behind us. Have a cheerier weekend, - Karsten -- Karsten Wade, RHCE, 108 Editor ^ Fedora Documentation Project Sr. Developer Relations Mgr. | fedoraproject.org/wiki/DocsProject quaid.108.redhat.com | gpg key: AD0E0C41 ////////////////////////////////// \\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\ -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: signature.asc Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 189 bytes Desc: This is a digitally signed message part URL: From stickster at gmail.com Sat Jul 22 15:19:58 2006 From: stickster at gmail.com (Paul W. Frields) Date: Sat, 22 Jul 2006 11:19:58 -0400 Subject: Fedora Installation Guide writer opening In-Reply-To: <1153511560.31810.176.camel@robert-chapman.testeng.maximhq.com> References: <1153511560.31810.176.camel@robert-chapman.testeng.maximhq.com> Message-ID: <1153581599.22412.87.camel@localhost.localdomain> So if we have people interested in helping with the IG, I can sponsor you for "limited" CVS access -- limited to the IG module for now -- and oversee any work. Some of the work we need done right away includes: * Screenshots for FC6t2 install process. Use Rawhide for now since it's "next to frozen," and follow the guidelines given in Section 2.4 of the current Documentation Guide[1]. Pay particular attention to only updating the ones that require it -- i.e. a change in the process, a new screen, or one which says "6" or "6 test2" instead of "5". * If there's a significant change in any part of the installation process, try and write some notes about it. If you want to draft on the Wiki, that's fine; I and any other interested editor can copy and tag whatever we can't convert properly. I am going to Xen-ify a box today so I can start doing some VNC installs to get an idea of how much things are changing; I'd recommend that as a first step for interested parties. If you don't know how to do that, search the wiki for Xen and/or stop by #fedora-docs for hints and tips. Docs, ho![2] [1] http://fedora.redhat.com/docs/documentation-guide/s1-screenshots.html [2] Rallying cry, not urbanspeak. -- Paul W. Frields, RHCE http://paul.frields.org/ gpg fingerprint: 3DA6 A0AC 6D58 FEC4 0233 5906 ACDB C937 BD11 3717 Fedora Project Board: http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Board Fedora Docs Project: http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/DocsProject -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: signature.asc Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 189 bytes Desc: This is a digitally signed message part URL: From dimitris at glezos.com Sat Jul 22 15:50:17 2006 From: dimitris at glezos.com (Dimitris Glezos) Date: Sat, 22 Jul 2006 16:50:17 +0100 Subject: Fedora Installation Guide writer opening In-Reply-To: <1153581599.22412.87.camel@localhost.localdomain> References: <1153511560.31810.176.camel@robert-chapman.testeng.maximhq.com> <1153581599.22412.87.camel@localhost.localdomain> Message-ID: <44C24939.9000307@glezos.com> O/H Paul W. Frields ??????: > So if we have people interested in helping with the IG, I can sponsor > you for "limited" CVS access -- limited to the IG module for now -- and > oversee any work. Oh yeah, and since we recently spoke about "good" URLs, we should consider changing the URL of the published installation guide. Current URL: http://fedora.redhat.com/docs/fedora-install-guide-en/fc5/ Better: /docs/installation-guide/fc5/ /docs/installation-guide/fc5/en_US/ /docs/installation-guide/fc5/fedora-install-guide-en_US.tar.gz -dim -- Dimitris Glezos Jabber ID: glezos at jabber.org, PGP: 0xA5A04C3B http://dimitris.glezos.com/ "He who gives up functionality for ease of use loses both and deserves neither." (Anonymous) -- From jlm at magnifisys.com Sun Jul 23 15:56:25 2006 From: jlm at magnifisys.com (James McElhannon) Date: Sun, 23 Jul 2006 10:56:25 -0500 Subject: Fedora Installation Guide writer opening In-Reply-To: <1153503168.1313.51.camel@erato.phig.org> References: <1152859668.7064.383.camel@erato.phig.org> <44C050CC.6030508@fedoraproject.org> <1153503168.1313.51.camel@erato.phig.org> Message-ID: <44C39C29.6070704@magnifisys.com> -----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- Hash: SHA1 Karsten Wade wrote: > On Fri, 2006-07-21 at 09:28 +0530, Rahul wrote: > >> So absolutely noone wants to get involved? >> >> We have a fair list of potential people here - >> http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/DocsProject/Contributors > > Personally, I would like to know what the other 95% of our 600+ > subscribers are interested in doing ... and why they are not doing it. > > As has been said, they can't really be only interested in "learned > discussions of documentation tools." > > - Karsten > Before I decide exactly how angry I am at this comment, I wanted first to verify a few things. For the folks on the list with redhat email addresses, isn't it your job to be participants in this and other related projects? Isn't it your job to increase the participation in such projects and to heighten the profile of Fedora? James - -- James McElhannon jlm at magnifisys.com MagnifiSys, LLC www.magnifisys.com -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: GnuPG v1.4.3 (MingW32) iD8DBQFEw5wp9KWEMihy1VsRAmToAJ4voizs02nN1+B+C1+cAI+Gw09HgQCcC3Ip /rTmuUtErQLr8yrtia6g06U= =iuCY -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- From sundaram at fedoraproject.org Sun Jul 23 16:37:48 2006 From: sundaram at fedoraproject.org (Rahul) Date: Sun, 23 Jul 2006 22:07:48 +0530 Subject: Fedora Installation Guide writer opening In-Reply-To: <44C39C29.6070704@magnifisys.com> References: <1152859668.7064.383.camel@erato.phig.org> <44C050CC.6030508@fedoraproject.org> <1153503168.1313.51.camel@erato.phig.org> <44C39C29.6070704@magnifisys.com> Message-ID: <44C3A5DC.5030309@fedoraproject.org> James McElhannon wrote: > -----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- > Hash: SHA1 > > Karsten Wade wrote: >> On Fri, 2006-07-21 at 09:28 +0530, Rahul wrote: >> >>> So absolutely noone wants to get involved? >>> >>> We have a fair list of potential people here - >>> http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/DocsProject/Contributors >> Personally, I would like to know what the other 95% of our 600+ >> subscribers are interested in doing ... and why they are not doing it. >> >> As has been said, they can't really be only interested in "learned >> discussions of documentation tools." >> >> - Karsten >> > > Before I decide exactly how angry I am at this comment, I wanted first > to verify a few things. Not sure what you are angry about. > > For the folks on the list with redhat email addresses, isn't it your job > to be participants in this and other related projects? Isn't it your > job to increase the participation in such projects and to heighten the > profile of Fedora? > A handful of Red Hat people are working on Fedora full time as part of their day job and neither me nor Karsten are part of that group. We are volunteers just like anyone else here and email addresses dont change that. I would consider it good if anyone interested in Fedora encourages other people to participate in the different Fedora projects or better yet participate themselves and thats what exactly what we are doing. Rahul From journo_bouy at hotmail.co.uk Sun Jul 23 19:52:49 2006 From: journo_bouy at hotmail.co.uk (Adam Moreland) Date: Sun, 23 Jul 2006 19:52:49 +0000 Subject: Fedora Installation Guide writer opening In-Reply-To: <1153577977.22412.78.camel@localhost.localdomain> Message-ID: Hey, >From: "Paul W. Frields" >Reply-To: For participants of the Documentation Project > >To: For participants of the Documentation Project > >Subject: Re: Fedora Installation Guide writer opening >Date: Sat, 22 Jul 2006 10:19:37 -0400 > >Adam, we *do* appreciate your efforts. Besides, 5% of 600+ is at least >30 people, and we definitely want you on that list! Don't take any >previous comments as directed at anyone in particular, I just wanted to >make Karsten feel better. :-) > No problems, guess i misread. Must have been paranoid. As mentioned below, just let me know when and i shall jump in. >Just because you don't grasp CVS fully right now, doesn't mean you can't >learn. I was very tentative about it when I joined at first, and now >it's old hat. People are available to help you -- that's why we hang >around on Freenode IRC at #fedora-docs. If you'd rather drop mail to >this list, we can help you there too. > I shall lurk about from time to time, and get to know all on there. >If you'd like to learn more about CVS, here's a couple places to start: > >Concepts: http://producingoss.com/html-chunk/vc.html >Practice: http://ximbiot.com/cvs/manual/cvs-1.11.22/cvs_1.html#SEC1 > cheers for the links. Will anyone be heading up this team of writers for the IG. I am eager to get started as soon as possible, so we can be prepared for the releases, but also so as to iron out all bugs and errors before going live with the eventual release soon of FC6 final (Sept-Oct i heard). Let me know specific role, or whenu want me to get started. With someone heading up it would be good to discuss any matters on irc, and also i shall ask more details on using doc-book, and cvs, as i have no experience with either, at the moment. Adam "MAniX" Moreland http://www.manix-place.co.uk http://www.2welshmen-and-a-sheep.co.uk _________________________________________________________________ Be the first to hear what's new at MSN - sign up to our free newsletters! http://www.msn.co.uk/newsletters From dimitris at glezos.com Mon Jul 24 00:38:48 2006 From: dimitris at glezos.com (Dimitris Glezos) Date: Mon, 24 Jul 2006 01:38:48 +0100 Subject: rpm-info and translations Message-ID: <44C41698.1050109@glezos.com> Hi all. A quick Q: Is there a reason for rpm-info.xml not following the normal translation procedure with po-files? -dim -- Dimitris Glezos Jabber ID: glezos at jabber.org, PGP: 0xA5A04C3B http://dimitris.glezos.com/ "He who gives up functionality for ease of use loses both and deserves neither." (Anonymous) -- From Tommy.Reynolds at MegaCoder.com Mon Jul 24 02:24:01 2006 From: Tommy.Reynolds at MegaCoder.com (Tommy Reynolds) Date: Sun, 23 Jul 2006 19:24:01 -0700 Subject: rpm-info and translations In-Reply-To: <44C41698.1050109@glezos.com> References: <44C41698.1050109@glezos.com> Message-ID: <20060723192401.0a7abf58.Tommy.Reynolds@MegaCoder.com> Uttered Dimitris Glezos , spake thus: > A quick Q: Is there a reason for rpm-info.xml not following the normal > translation procedure with po-files? Yes. We didn't think of it ;-) Well, I didn't think of it. My idea was to have *all* the RPM-related information in "rpm-info.xml" and then selectively extract whatever we needed from it. I was unfamiliar with the translator's PO-centric approach. Changing "rpm-info.xml" to become part of the PO process is on our list, but so far neither Paul nor I have had time to work on it. Anybody want to step up? -- I'm already an anomaly, I shall soon be an anachronism, and I have every intention of dying an abuse! From dimitris at glezos.com Mon Jul 24 03:07:21 2006 From: dimitris at glezos.com (Dimitris Glezos) Date: Mon, 24 Jul 2006 04:07:21 +0100 Subject: rpm-info and translations In-Reply-To: <20060723192401.0a7abf58.Tommy.Reynolds@MegaCoder.com> References: <44C41698.1050109@glezos.com> <20060723192401.0a7abf58.Tommy.Reynolds@MegaCoder.com> Message-ID: <44C43969.80408@glezos.com> O/H Tommy Reynolds ??????: > Uttered Dimitris Glezos , spake thus: > >> A quick Q: Is there a reason for rpm-info.xml not following the normal >> translation procedure with po-files? > > Yes. We didn't think of it ;-) > > Well, I didn't think of it. My idea was to have *all* the > RPM-related information in "rpm-info.xml" and then selectively > extract whatever we needed from it. I was unfamiliar with the > translator's PO-centric approach. > > Changing "rpm-info.xml" to become part of the PO process is on our > list, but so far neither Paul nor I have had time to work on it. > > Anybody want to step up? Attaching a patch that does it. I moved `rpm-info.xml` inside `en_US/`, where it should be now that the translations will be handled from the po files. If this is too big of a change, I guess we can live with the file at the root of each doc. -dim -- Dimitris Glezos Jabber ID: glezos at jabber.org, PGP: 0xA5A04C3B http://dimitris.glezos.com/ "He who gives up functionality for ease of use loses both and deserves neither." (Anonymous) -- -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: FDP-localize-rpminfo.patch Type: text/x-patch Size: 1651 bytes Desc: not available URL: From stickster at gmail.com Mon Jul 24 12:31:29 2006 From: stickster at gmail.com (Paul W. Frields) Date: Mon, 24 Jul 2006 08:31:29 -0400 Subject: Self-Intruduction: Ruediger Steffan In-Reply-To: References: <1153353278.5739.15.camel@localhost.localdomain> Message-ID: <1153744289.22412.107.camel@localhost.localdomain> On Mon, 2006-07-24 at 09:36 +0200, Ruediger Steffan wrote: > Hello, > thanks a lot, I am through. Would you please approve the membership on > cvsdocs and wiki editing? > Greetings, > Ruediger Hi Ruediger, Please feel free to send these inquiries to fedora-docs-list at redhat.com so that they are seen by the whole group. I see your CLA is done, but I don't have your wiki name -- I'll assume it's RuedigerSteffan and add you to the EditGroup that way. -- Paul W. Frields, RHCE http://paul.frields.org/ gpg fingerprint: 3DA6 A0AC 6D58 FEC4 0233 5906 ACDB C937 BD11 3717 Fedora Project Board: http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Board Fedora Docs Project: http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/DocsProject -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: signature.asc Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 189 bytes Desc: This is a digitally signed message part URL: From Tommy.Reynolds at MegaCoder.com Mon Jul 24 12:57:00 2006 From: Tommy.Reynolds at MegaCoder.com (Tommy Reynolds) Date: Mon, 24 Jul 2006 05:57:00 -0700 Subject: rpm-info and translations In-Reply-To: <44C43969.80408@glezos.com> References: <44C41698.1050109@glezos.com> <20060723192401.0a7abf58.Tommy.Reynolds@MegaCoder.com> <44C43969.80408@glezos.com> Message-ID: <20060724055700.31288af5.Tommy.Reynolds@MegaCoder.com> Uttered Dimitris Glezos , spake thus: > O/H Tommy Reynolds ??????: > > Uttered Dimitris Glezos , spake thus: > >> A quick Q: Is there a reason for rpm-info.xml not following the normal > >> translation procedure with po-files? > > Yes. We didn't think of it ;-) > Attaching a patch that does it. Dimitris, Thank you for that patch. Before I apply it, I'll check with Paul about the timing because moving the "rpm-info.xml" file requires changes to the RPM packaging scripts. I don't want to disrupt the release notes push... ATTENTION PAUL: Are you receptive to making this change now? -- I'm already an anomaly, I shall soon be an anachronism, and I have every intention of dying an abuse! From dimitris at glezos.com Mon Jul 24 16:02:24 2006 From: dimitris at glezos.com (Dimitris Glezos) Date: Mon, 24 Jul 2006 17:02:24 +0100 Subject: rpm-info and translations In-Reply-To: <20060724055700.31288af5.Tommy.Reynolds@MegaCoder.com> References: <44C41698.1050109@glezos.com> <20060723192401.0a7abf58.Tommy.Reynolds@MegaCoder.com> <44C43969.80408@glezos.com> <20060724055700.31288af5.Tommy.Reynolds@MegaCoder.com> Message-ID: <44C4EF10.1010309@glezos.com> O/H Tommy Reynolds ??????: > Uttered Dimitris Glezos , spake thus: > >> O/H Tommy Reynolds ??????: >>> Uttered Dimitris Glezos , spake thus: >>>> A quick Q: Is there a reason for rpm-info.xml not following the normal >>>> translation procedure with po-files? >>> Yes. We didn't think of it ;-) >> Attaching a patch that does it. > > Dimitris, > > Thank you for that patch. Before I apply it, I'll check with Paul > about the timing because moving the "rpm-info.xml" file requires > changes to the RPM packaging scripts. I don't want to disrupt the > release notes push... > > ATTENTION PAUL: Are you receptive to making this change now? Anytime, Tommy. The patch produces one warning about a missing DTD. Didn't have (more) time to check it. You mentioned something about a todo list. I see that the schedule page [1] is kinda outdated. Anything more specific on what's required next? -dim [1]: http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/DocsProject/SteeringCommittee/TaskSchedule -- Dimitris Glezos Jabber ID: glezos at jabber.org, GPG: 0xA5A04C3B http://dimitris.glezos.com/ "He who gives up functionality for ease of use loses both and deserves neither." (Anonymous) -- From stickster at gmail.com Mon Jul 24 17:06:25 2006 From: stickster at gmail.com (Paul W. Frields) Date: Mon, 24 Jul 2006 13:06:25 -0400 Subject: rpm-info and translations In-Reply-To: <20060724055700.31288af5.Tommy.Reynolds@MegaCoder.com> References: <44C41698.1050109@glezos.com> <20060723192401.0a7abf58.Tommy.Reynolds@MegaCoder.com> <44C43969.80408@glezos.com> <20060724055700.31288af5.Tommy.Reynolds@MegaCoder.com> Message-ID: <1153760785.22412.119.camel@localhost.localdomain> On Mon, 2006-07-24 at 05:57 -0700, Tommy Reynolds wrote: > Uttered Dimitris Glezos , spake thus: > > > O/H Tommy Reynolds ??????: > > > Uttered Dimitris Glezos , spake thus: > > >> A quick Q: Is there a reason for rpm-info.xml not following the normal > > >> translation procedure with po-files? > > > Yes. We didn't think of it ;-) > > Attaching a patch that does it. > > Dimitris, > > Thank you for that patch. Before I apply it, I'll check with Paul > about the timing because moving the "rpm-info.xml" file requires > changes to the RPM packaging scripts. I don't want to disrupt the > release notes push... > > ATTENTION PAUL: Are you receptive to making this change now? Let's hold off until the test2 freeze passes, so we can avoid churning up any problems for Jesse until after we get the test2 translations in. I realize they will be incomplete, but it's the price we pay for the timing. The "feature freeze" for test2 should not have an impact on release notes, so we can fix this later this week after the ISO spin and the freeze is released. Does that sound sensible to everyone? I'm not really concerned about the impact on other docs; the packaging -- as Tommy's well aware -- is a hacky mess perpetrated by Yours Truly, but thankfully not yet in use anywhere. The process of getting a fedora-release-notes packaging routine ready has been a bit of a secondary education for me on how to do this better on a global basis. I think what's in the release-notes module is a good start and will allow us to do away with a lot of the ugly XSLT required for the previous incarnation. We should probably think about doing away with % changelog stuff in rpm-info, which is not a big deal thanks to Tommy's DTD design, and simply putting a .spec file in the top-level directory for a doc. This would mimic the usage in most software repositories, including Fedora, and would simplify and beautify everything. Just some thoughts... more to come as I get time; this past weekend and the week ahead are going to be wicked busy for me. Cheers all! -- Paul W. Frields, RHCE http://paul.frields.org/ gpg fingerprint: 3DA6 A0AC 6D58 FEC4 0233 5906 ACDB C937 BD11 3717 Fedora Project Board: http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Board Fedora Docs Project: http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/DocsProject -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: signature.asc Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 189 bytes Desc: This is a digitally signed message part URL: From kwade at redhat.com Mon Jul 24 20:10:31 2006 From: kwade at redhat.com (Karsten Wade) Date: Mon, 24 Jul 2006 13:10:31 -0700 Subject: Fedora Installation Guide writer opening In-Reply-To: <1153511560.31810.176.camel@robert-chapman.testeng.maximhq.com> References: <1153511560.31810.176.camel@robert-chapman.testeng.maximhq.com> Message-ID: <1153771832.1313.239.camel@erato.phig.org> On Fri, 2006-07-21 at 12:52 -0700, Robert F. Chapman wrote: > I need to come up with a development environment that allows me to > easily turn my plain text ruff drafts into well structured documents. > Examples of others development environments and methods would be most > helpful to get me started. I'm with Paul and use Emacs + PSGML. It is obnoxiously good at DocBook, IMHO. The block markup (paragraphs, lists) is simple to use, and you learn the inline as you go. There is, as always, a small hurdle in starting Emacs and/or DocBook, but it is much smaller than you realize unless you've never heard of structured text and markup languages. But if you do HTML in any editor, you can be doing XML DocBook in Emacs within the hour. I know, because that is how I got stared. :) Our guide currently covers nxml and Emacs: http://fedora.redhat.com/docs/documentation-guide/ch-emacs-nxml.html I haven't tried nXML in a while, but it works similarly; it is a mode for the editor that gives extended, specific help around the type of XML document you are writing. That type is set, btw, in the header: There are some notes in our guide about Vim and XML/DocBook: http://fedora.redhat.com/docs/documentation-guide/ch-vim.html YMMV, and maybe there are better techniques now. If you find them, let us know so we can update the guide[1] [1] Add notes to the draft wiki space: http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Docs/Drafts/DocumentationGuide > Are there any members of the doc-list, located in the S.F. Bay area that > I would be able to meet with to help get me started? I work in Sunnyvale > Calif. and love Starbucks. I also frequent a couple of the local Linux > Users Groups. For efficiency sake, I think we should run with what Paul Frields is suggesting, come to #fedora-docs on irc.freenode.net and we'll see how far we can get you. Even VNC is cheaper than gas. :) That said, I am local-ish to the Bay Area; maybe we could tag a meeting of Fedorans on top of an SVLUG meeting sometime? I actually don't attend, but I've been looking for an excuse to be more ambassadorial for Fedora. :) - Karsten -- Karsten Wade, RHCE, 108 Editor ^ Fedora Documentation Project Sr. Developer Relations Mgr. | fedoraproject.org/wiki/DocsProject quaid.108.redhat.com | gpg key: AD0E0C41 ////////////////////////////////// \\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\ -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: signature.asc Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 189 bytes Desc: This is a digitally signed message part URL: From miles at brennan.id.au Tue Jul 25 12:12:02 2006 From: miles at brennan.id.au (Miles Brennan) Date: Tue, 25 Jul 2006 22:12:02 +1000 Subject: Problem with Wiki Theme Message-ID: <44C60A92.4090507@brennan.id.au> -----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- Hash: SHA1 I've had a little play around on the wiki and noticed that one of the themes doesn't seem to display properly when viewed with Windows IE. If I change the theme to "rightsidebar" under User Prefs, then some of the pages appear to display a large gap between the heading and main content area. It also seems to do it with "rightsidebarsmaller". It displays fine with Firefox on both Windows and Linux. Does anyone else notice this behaviour? Cheers, Miles -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: GnuPG v1.4.2.2 (MingW32) iD8DBQFExgqScSPa0xQu/fARApyOAKC9xjpcltpQsUWGMHza8J8cHqLI6gCdHbm+ UpRmdHE6Dl2PbuwwzUJwx0k= =2X0G -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- From nman64 at n-man.com Tue Jul 25 12:46:00 2006 From: nman64 at n-man.com (Patrick W. Barnes) Date: Tue, 25 Jul 2006 07:46:00 -0500 Subject: Problem with Wiki Theme In-Reply-To: <44C60A92.4090507@brennan.id.au> References: <44C60A92.4090507@brennan.id.au> Message-ID: <200607250746.02796.nman64@n-man.com> On Tuesday 25 July 2006 07:12, Miles Brennan wrote: > I've had a little play around on the wiki and noticed that one of the > themes doesn't seem to display properly when viewed with Windows IE. > > If I change the theme to "rightsidebar" under User Prefs, then some of > the pages appear to display a large gap between the heading and main > content area. It also seems to do it with "rightsidebarsmaller". > > It displays fine with Firefox on both Windows and Linux. > > Does anyone else notice this behaviour? > Known issues. Fixed in newer versions of MoinMoin. We don't use that as the default theme and we don't intend to backport the fixes prior to upgrading. If you want to check out the latest version of MoinMoin or want more information, see MoinMoin's website: http://moinmoin.wikiwikiweb.de/ The best list to take this sort of thing to is fedora-websites-list. Although the issue is known in this case, you can also report this sort of thing in Bugzilla. More information is on the Websites page of the wiki: http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Websites -- Patrick "The N-Man" Barnes nman64 at n-man.com http://www.n-man.com/ LinkedIn: http://www.linkedin.com/in/nman64 Have I been helpful? Rate my assistance! http://rate.affero.net/nman64/ -- -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 189 bytes Desc: not available URL: From fitzsim at redhat.com Tue Jul 25 14:05:41 2006 From: fitzsim at redhat.com (Thomas Fitzsimmons) Date: Tue, 25 Jul 2006 10:05:41 -0400 Subject: release notes ready for translation (FC6 test2) In-Reply-To: <1152706957.7064.89.camel@erato.phig.org> References: <1152706957.7064.89.camel@erato.phig.org> Message-ID: <44C62535.2020002@redhat.com> Karsten Wade wrote: > The release notes are ready for translation. We apologize for the delay > (about 14 hours) as we work through new processes. > > The new POT file is found at: > > cvs.fedoraproject.org:/cvs/docs/release-notes/devel/po/RELEASE-NOTES.pot > > The files in devel/ (and the docs-common module) have been tagged in CVS > with "ready-for-translation-FC6-test2". > > If you have any questions, fedora-docs-list is probably the best place > to ask. gcjwebplugin made it into FC6test2, and I'd like to add a section about it in the release notes. How do I do that? Tom From sundaram at fedoraproject.org Tue Jul 25 14:12:11 2006 From: sundaram at fedoraproject.org (Rahul) Date: Tue, 25 Jul 2006 19:42:11 +0530 Subject: release notes ready for translation (FC6 test2) In-Reply-To: <44C62535.2020002@redhat.com> References: <1152706957.7064.89.camel@erato.phig.org> <44C62535.2020002@redhat.com> Message-ID: <44C626BB.7080607@fedoraproject.org> Thomas Fitzsimmons wrote: > Karsten Wade wrote: >> The release notes are ready for translation. We apologize for the delay >> (about 14 hours) as we work through new processes. >> >> The new POT file is found at: >> >> cvs.fedoraproject.org:/cvs/docs/release-notes/devel/po/RELEASE-NOTES.pot >> >> The files in devel/ (and the docs-common module) have been tagged in CVS >> with "ready-for-translation-FC6-test2". >> >> If you have any questions, fedora-docs-list is probably the best place >> to ask. > > gcjwebplugin made it into FC6test2, and I'd like to add a section about > it in the release notes. How do I do that? > I have added a note in http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Docs/Beats/OverView Rahul From dimitris at glezos.com Tue Jul 25 14:34:39 2006 From: dimitris at glezos.com (Dimitris Glezos) Date: Tue, 25 Jul 2006 15:34:39 +0100 Subject: release notes ready for translation (FC6 test2) In-Reply-To: <44C626BB.7080607@fedoraproject.org> References: <1152706957.7064.89.camel@erato.phig.org> <44C62535.2020002@redhat.com> <44C626BB.7080607@fedoraproject.org> Message-ID: <44C62BFF.4030704@glezos.com> O/H Rahul ??????: > Thomas Fitzsimmons wrote: >> gcjwebplugin made it into FC6test2, and I'd like to add a section >> about it in the release notes. How do I do that? >> > > I have added a note in http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Docs/Beats/OverView Maybe it would be a good idea to have something more elaborate (until FC6 final) in the Java section of the Relnotes? -dim -- Dimitris Glezos Jabber ID: glezos at jabber.org, GPG: 0xA5A04C3B http://dimitris.glezos.com/ "He who gives up functionality for ease of use loses both and deserves neither." (Anonymous) -- From sundaram at fedoraproject.org Tue Jul 25 15:19:08 2006 From: sundaram at fedoraproject.org (Rahul) Date: Tue, 25 Jul 2006 20:49:08 +0530 Subject: release notes ready for translation (FC6 test2) In-Reply-To: <44C62BFF.4030704@glezos.com> References: <1152706957.7064.89.camel@erato.phig.org> <44C62535.2020002@redhat.com> <44C626BB.7080607@fedoraproject.org> <44C62BFF.4030704@glezos.com> Message-ID: <44C6366C.9030802@fedoraproject.org> Dimitris Glezos wrote: > O/H Rahul ??????: >> Thomas Fitzsimmons wrote: >>> gcjwebplugin made it into FC6test2, and I'd like to add a section >>> about it in the release notes. How do I do that? >>> >> I have added a note in http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Docs/Beats/OverView > > Maybe it would be a good idea to have something more elaborate (until > FC6 final) in the Java section of the Relnotes? > > -dim There is not much to eloborate about this. Besides the Java section is meant for Java software developers and GCJwebapplet is not very interesting to them. Rahul From cepxat at gmail.com Tue Jul 25 15:42:28 2006 From: cepxat at gmail.com (=?ISO-8859-1?Q?Serhat_G=FCng=F6r?=) Date: Tue, 25 Jul 2006 18:42:28 +0300 Subject: CVS access Message-ID: <6894514e0607250842q6920cb0m1866214510f41c8@mail.gmail.com> Hi, I still can't access the Documents CVS Repo. My membership in the cvsdocs group isn't approved. Do I have to do something else? Serhat ---------- Forwarded message ---------- From: Serhat G?ng?r Date: Jul 14, 2006 10:32 PM Subject: Re: Self Introduction : Serhat GUNGOR To: For participants of the Documentation Project < fedora-docs-list at redhat.com> I already singed up for access to the cvsdocs group in the Fedora Account System but my membership isn't approved. I think it must be approved by an admin. When I look my membership from the accounts home i see as the following. Group NameUsernameRole DomainRole TypeRole StatusSponsor ambassadors cepxat user approved *Unneeded* cla_done cepxat None user approved *Unneeded* cvsdocs cepxat user unapproved *Unneeded* What should i do for to be approved? Thanks, Serhat On 7/14/06, Paul W. Frields < stickster at gmail.com> wrote: > > On Wed, 2006-07-12 at 23:11 +0300, Serhat G?ng?r wrote: > > Hi, > > I'm Serhat GUNGOR from Istanbul, Turkey. I'm a Computer Engineer and > > using linux nearly 4 years. Before Fedora i was using Red Hat. Till > > last week i was working as system administrator in Istanbul Technical > > University(ITU) which is the one of the big universities of Turkey. > > Mostly Red Hat Enterprise L?nux is used there in the server side. In > > the client side more than 1000 computers are Fedora. We started a a > > Linux Education program in ITU which is called ITU Linux Academy > > ( http://ila.itu.edu.tr -- page is in Turkish) and had lots of > > students from university or out of the university. Now i'm working at > > Turkey's biggest GSM operator. > > > > I am working on Fedora Translation Project and i will be leading the > > Turkish team. And to make people join the translation project, firstly > > i want to translate quick-start-guide to Turkish. > > Welcome Serhat. If you haven't already signed up for access to the > cvsdocs group in the Fedora Account System, please do so. We're proud > to have you and all our hard-working translators aboard. They've been > doing a splendid job recently and we're hoping to have lots of > translations for documents out for the FC6 cycle. > > We are very close to having release notes in the i18n.redhat.com system, > so keep a lookout there. We'll of course post to this list and > fedora-trans-list when it's ready. > > If you need any help getting started here, please let us know. > > -- > Paul W. Frields, RHCE http://paul.frields.org/ > gpg fingerprint: 3DA6 A0AC 6D58 FEC4 0233 5906 ACDB C937 BD11 3717 > Fedora Project Board: http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Board > Fedora Docs Project: http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/DocsProject > > -- > fedora-docs-list mailing list > fedora-docs-list at redhat.com > To unsubscribe: > https://www.redhat.com/mailman/listinfo/fedora-docs-list > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From jlm at magnifisys.com Tue Jul 25 16:09:56 2006 From: jlm at magnifisys.com (James McElhannon) Date: Tue, 25 Jul 2006 11:09:56 -0500 Subject: Fedora Installation Guide writer opening In-Reply-To: <44C3A5DC.5030309@fedoraproject.org> References: <1152859668.7064.383.camel@erato.phig.org> <44C050CC.6030508@fedoraproject.org> <1153503168.1313.51.camel@erato.phig.org> <44C39C29.6070704@magnifisys.com> <44C3A5DC.5030309@fedoraproject.org> Message-ID: <44C64254.5030702@magnifisys.com> -----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- Hash: SHA1 Rahul wrote: > James McElhannon wrote: >> -----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- >> Hash: SHA1 >> >> Karsten Wade wrote: >>> On Fri, 2006-07-21 at 09:28 +0530, Rahul wrote: >>> >>>> So absolutely noone wants to get involved? >>>> >>>> We have a fair list of potential people here - >>>> http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/DocsProject/Contributors >>> Personally, I would like to know what the other 95% of our 600+ >>> subscribers are interested in doing ... and why they are not doing it. >>> >>> As has been said, they can't really be only interested in "learned >>> discussions of documentation tools." >>> >>> - Karsten >>> >> >> Before I decide exactly how angry I am at this comment, I wanted first >> to verify a few things. > > Not sure what you are angry about. > >> >> For the folks on the list with redhat email addresses, isn't it your job >> to be participants in this and other related projects? Isn't it your >> job to increase the participation in such projects and to heighten the >> profile of Fedora? >> > > A handful of Red Hat people are working on Fedora full time as part of > their day job and neither me nor Karsten are part of that group. We are > volunteers just like anyone else here and email addresses dont change > that. I would consider it good if anyone interested in Fedora encourages > other people to participate in the different Fedora projects or better > yet participate themselves and thats what exactly what we are doing. > > Rahul > I guess what I'm thinking about is an article whose link was distributed to the group. At the end of the article, Karsten's profile was given as: About the author Karsten Wade is the leader of the Fedora Documentation Project and a senior developer relations manager at Red Hat. Formerly a services consultant and Engineering technical writer, Karsten is now focused on bringing corporate developers the Red Hat world of content, community, and collaboration found in the best practices of free/libre and open source software. That sounds like someone whose job is based on Fedora. So, based on that, I would stand by my earlier statement (at least for Karsten): For the folks on the list with redhat email addresses, isn't it your job to be participants in this and other related projects? Isn't it your job to increase the participation in such projects and to heighten the profile of Fedora? So, I take issue with criticism of those who are exclusively using their own precious time and effort without any job-related association. Anyway, at this point, I've said my piece, and I'll go away now. James - -- James McElhannon jlm at magnifisys.com MagnifiSys, LLC www.magnifisys.com -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: GnuPG v1.4.3 (MingW32) iD8DBQFExkJT9KWEMihy1VsRAvMmAJ46rShRHTaJtiUNwsGS5A1rNScpIwCfRUeZ +uTP9/+93o35sgA/mm8SCVA= =q7qo -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- From kwade at redhat.com Tue Jul 25 21:05:50 2006 From: kwade at redhat.com (Karsten Wade) Date: Tue, 25 Jul 2006 14:05:50 -0700 Subject: minutes FDSCo 25-Jul-2006 Message-ID: <1153861550.29375.160.camel@erato.phig.org> Quick minutes from a shortened meeting today (my inattentive fault). Full IRC log on fedora-dsco-list. Attending: ---------- Bob Jensen Karsten Wade Paul W. Frields Jesse Keating (guest) Elliot Lee (guest) * Need to fix our schedule page to be more focuses on doable tasks and less demoralizing (kwade task) http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/DocsProject/SteeringCommittee/TaskSchedule * CVS sponsorship for translators is as follows: - Look to existing language for sponsor. - If none available, look to another language for a sponsor. - If none available and/or another language is the sponsor, have the new person recruit another translator from the existing project. ** Objective == provide backup and support for translators * MoinMoin upgrade has been put into OTRS as a ticket; McGrath assigned himself. More background from: https://bugzilla.redhat.com/bugzilla/show_bug.cgi?id=196691 * Toolchain changes are in the works, to be started when the test2 Web-only release notes are published, just in case. :) These changes are to make things more efficient, bring all content into the PO to be translated, and related issues. * stickster to recruit glezos for toolchain help. :) ## 30 ## -- Karsten Wade, RHCE, 108 Editor ^ Fedora Documentation Project Sr. Developer Relations Mgr. | fedoraproject.org/wiki/DocsProject quaid.108.redhat.com | gpg key: AD0E0C41 ////////////////////////////////// \\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\ -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: signature.asc Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 189 bytes Desc: This is a digitally signed message part URL: From dimitris at glezos.com Wed Jul 26 02:50:23 2006 From: dimitris at glezos.com (Dimitris Glezos) Date: Wed, 26 Jul 2006 03:50:23 +0100 Subject: Fedora FAQs in Docs? Message-ID: <44C6D86F.4@glezos.com> Hi all. Are there any plans to move the FAQs from the wiki to the Docs? I'm not sure if it is really worth it, because a) FAQs are not the best way to write documentation and b) probably every answer is/will be included in or linked to the Guides (installation, desktop, etc). Nevertheless, FAQs *are* popular among users and so are websites like fedorafaq.org. Very linkable from outside, handy. Do you guys think we should migrate the FAQs to a Doc, probably maintained with the moinmoin export? This way we'll get them translated more too. -dim -- Dimitris Glezos Jabber ID: glezos at jabber.org, PGP: 0xA5A04C3B http://dimitris.glezos.com/ "He who gives up functionality for ease of use loses both and deserves neither." (Anonymous) -- From kwade at redhat.com Wed Jul 26 15:06:30 2006 From: kwade at redhat.com (Karsten Wade) Date: Wed, 26 Jul 2006 08:06:30 -0700 Subject: Fedora Installation Guide writer opening In-Reply-To: <44C64254.5030702@magnifisys.com> References: <1152859668.7064.383.camel@erato.phig.org> <44C050CC.6030508@fedoraproject.org> <1153503168.1313.51.camel@erato.phig.org> <44C39C29.6070704@magnifisys.com> <44C3A5DC.5030309@fedoraproject.org> <44C64254.5030702@magnifisys.com> Message-ID: <1153926390.29375.193.camel@erato.phig.org> On Tue, 2006-07-25 at 11:09 -0500, James McElhannon wrote: > I guess what I'm thinking about is an article whose link was distributed > to the group. At the end of the article, Karsten's profile was given as: > > > About the author > Karsten Wade is the leader of the Fedora Documentation Project and a > senior developer relations manager at Red Hat. Formerly a services > consultant and Engineering technical writer, Karsten is now focused on > bringing corporate developers the Red Hat world of content, community, > and collaboration found in the best practices of free/libre and open > source software. > > > That sounds like someone whose job is based on Fedora. So, based on > that, I would stand by my earlier statement (at least for Karsten): Rahul is correct. I've been a volunteer for the Fedora Documentation Project for over two years and have given at least as much personal time as any other individual involved. What you are quoting is a biography. I could have added, "Father of two dancing, singing, acting, gardening, currently sleeping daughters," but that doesn't mean I get paid by Red Hat to be a Dad. :) > > For the folks on the list with redhat email addresses, isn't it your job > to be participants in this and other related projects? Isn't it your > job to increase the participation in such projects and to heighten the > profile of Fedora? > > > So, I take issue with criticism of those who are exclusively using their > own precious time and effort without any job-related association. You have to accept that you are mistaken. No one at Red Hat is paid to work on Fedora documentation, especially not myself. I am not rated on my performance in Fedora. If my work output suffers because of working on Fedora, that can affect my performance rating at work. If I have two deadlines, one internal and one Fedora, I am in the same position as every single one of you.[1] So considering that, do you understand my wondering what you all are up to? Sorry if that wasn't clear. I know it is a common misconception that everyone with an @redhat.com email address is paid to work on Fedora. Unfortunately, it is just not true. - Karsten [1] Ironically, there is at least one jerk-of-a-manager out there who looked at all my work in Fedora and figured that I must be shirking on my for-pay work; how could I be doing so much of both? His mistake was assuming that I clock only 40 hours of combined work. At about another 20 hours a week on a regular basis, and now you can understand how I can do a full-time job and a part-time volunteer job. -- Karsten Wade, RHCE, 108 Editor ^ Fedora Documentation Project Sr. Developer Relations Mgr. | fedoraproject.org/wiki/DocsProject quaid.108.redhat.com | gpg key: AD0E0C41 ////////////////////////////////// \\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\ -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: signature.asc Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 189 bytes Desc: This is a digitally signed message part URL: From kwade at redhat.com Wed Jul 26 16:43:04 2006 From: kwade at redhat.com (Karsten Wade) Date: Wed, 26 Jul 2006 09:43:04 -0700 Subject: Fedora FAQs in Docs? In-Reply-To: <44C6D86F.4@glezos.com> References: <44C6D86F.4@glezos.com> Message-ID: <1153932185.29375.219.camel@erato.phig.org> On Wed, 2006-07-26 at 03:50 +0100, Dimitris Glezos wrote: > Hi all. > > Are there any plans to move the FAQs from the wiki to the Docs? What we planned, at the suggestion of Rahul, is to pull the FAQ directly into the release notes. This puts the data on the local system for off-line value, linked directly from the default Firefox homepage. > I'm not sure if it is really worth it, because a) FAQs are not the best > way to write documentation and b) probably every answer is/will be > included in or linked to the Guides (installation, desktop, etc). > > Nevertheless, FAQs *are* popular among users and so are websites like > fedorafaq.org. Very linkable from outside, handy. Our FAQ is linked from the sidebar here: file:///usr/share/doc/HTML/index.html I did think about linking directly to fedorafaq.org, but thought it would be confusing to have two FAQs side-by-side. > Do you guys think we should migrate the FAQs to a Doc, probably > maintained with the moinmoin export? This way we'll get them translated > more too. Ah, now that's a good point. We missed it for test2, but let's make it a point for test3 to get the FAQ into XML and available for translation long in advance. There might be last minute changes as we get closer to test3, but the majority of the content could be translated and only have to do some updates. - Karsten -- Karsten Wade, RHCE, 108 Editor ^ Fedora Documentation Project Sr. Developer Relations Mgr. | fedoraproject.org/wiki/DocsProject quaid.108.redhat.com | gpg key: AD0E0C41 ////////////////////////////////// \\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\ -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: signature.asc Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 189 bytes Desc: This is a digitally signed message part URL: From dimitris at glezos.com Wed Jul 26 17:28:11 2006 From: dimitris at glezos.com (Dimitris Glezos) Date: Wed, 26 Jul 2006 18:28:11 +0100 Subject: Fedora FAQs in Docs? In-Reply-To: <1153932185.29375.219.camel@erato.phig.org> References: <44C6D86F.4@glezos.com> <1153932185.29375.219.camel@erato.phig.org> Message-ID: <44C7A62B.4020103@glezos.com> O/H Karsten Wade ??????: > On Wed, 2006-07-26 at 03:50 +0100, Dimitris Glezos wrote: >> Hi all. >> >> Are there any plans to move the FAQs from the wiki to the Docs? > > What we planned, at the suggestion of Rahul, is to pull the FAQ directly > into the release notes. This puts the data on the local system for > off-line value, linked directly from the default Firefox homepage. -1. The FAQs might increase in size and the RN are already quite large (especially with nochunks). >> I'm not sure if it is really worth it, because a) FAQs are not the best >> way to write documentation and b) probably every answer is/will be >> included in or linked to the Guides (installation, desktop, etc). >> >> Nevertheless, FAQs *are* popular among users and so are websites like >> fedorafaq.org. Very linkable from outside, handy. > > Our FAQ is linked from the sidebar here: > > file:///usr/share/doc/HTML/index.html > > I did think about linking directly to fedorafaq.org, but thought it > would be confusing to have two FAQs side-by-side. Good thinking. :) >> Do you guys think we should migrate the FAQs to a Doc, probably >> maintained with the moinmoin export? This way we'll get them translated >> more too. > > Ah, now that's a good point. We missed it for test2, but let's make it > a point for test3 to get the FAQ into XML and available for translation > long in advance. There might be last minute changes as we get closer to > test3, but the majority of the content could be translated and only have > to do some updates. Great then. Can someone point out the process of extracting the data from the wiki? -dim -- Dimitris Glezos Jabber ID: glezos at jabber.org, GPG: 0xA5A04C3B http://dimitris.glezos.com/ "He who gives up functionality for ease of use loses both and deserves neither." (Anonymous) -- From sundaram at fedoraproject.org Wed Jul 26 17:31:05 2006 From: sundaram at fedoraproject.org (Rahul) Date: Wed, 26 Jul 2006 23:01:05 +0530 Subject: Fedora FAQs in Docs? In-Reply-To: <44C7A62B.4020103@glezos.com> References: <44C6D86F.4@glezos.com> <1153932185.29375.219.camel@erato.phig.org> <44C7A62B.4020103@glezos.com> Message-ID: <44C7A6D9.1050406@fedoraproject.org> Dimitris Glezos wrote: > O/H Karsten Wade ??????: >> On Wed, 2006-07-26 at 03:50 +0100, Dimitris Glezos wrote: >>> Hi all. >>> >>> Are there any plans to move the FAQs from the wiki to the Docs? >> What we planned, at the suggestion of Rahul, is to pull the FAQ directly >> into the release notes. This puts the data on the local system for >> off-line value, linked directly from the default Firefox homepage. > > -1. The FAQs might increase in size and the RN are already quite large > (especially with nochunks). You are not following the discussion. There is no necessity for the FAQ to be part of the same page as the release notes. It is merely planned to be shipped along with it. Rahul From kwade at redhat.com Wed Jul 26 17:43:09 2006 From: kwade at redhat.com (Karsten Wade) Date: Wed, 26 Jul 2006 10:43:09 -0700 Subject: Fedora FAQs in Docs? In-Reply-To: <44C7A62B.4020103@glezos.com> References: <44C6D86F.4@glezos.com> <1153932185.29375.219.camel@erato.phig.org> <44C7A62B.4020103@glezos.com> Message-ID: <1153935789.29375.226.camel@erato.phig.org> On Wed, 2006-07-26 at 18:28 +0100, Dimitris Glezos wrote: > O/H Karsten Wade ??????: > > On Wed, 2006-07-26 at 03:50 +0100, Dimitris Glezos wrote: > >> Hi all. > >> > >> Are there any plans to move the FAQs from the wiki to the Docs? > > > > What we planned, at the suggestion of Rahul, is to pull the FAQ directly > > into the release notes. This puts the data on the local system for > > off-line value, linked directly from the default Firefox homepage. > > -1. The FAQs might increase in size and the RN are already quite large > (especially with nochunks). I think the idea of including it in fedora-release-note would be as a separate HTML file, *not* as part of the release note HTML itself. This is the bug that Rahul filed, btw: https://bugzilla.redhat.com/bugzilla/showdependencytree.cgi?id=197471&hide_resolved=1 > Great then. Can someone point out the process of extracting the data > from the wiki? We need to update our Wiki to the latest MoinMoin code, that support the output to XML with fixes that Mikko has been working on for his Summer of Code project. Fedora Infrastructure has the action for the upgrade and is working on it. We'll get updates from the OTRS ticket: https://admin.fedoraproject.org/tickets/customer.pl?Action=CustomerTicketZoom&TicketID=67 - Karsten -- Karsten Wade, RHCE, 108 Editor ^ Fedora Documentation Project Sr. Developer Relations Mgr. | fedoraproject.org/wiki/DocsProject quaid.108.redhat.com | gpg key: AD0E0C41 ////////////////////////////////// \\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\ -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: signature.asc Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 189 bytes Desc: This is a digitally signed message part URL: From dimitris at glezos.com Wed Jul 26 18:11:30 2006 From: dimitris at glezos.com (Dimitris Glezos) Date: Wed, 26 Jul 2006 19:11:30 +0100 Subject: Fedora FAQs in Docs? In-Reply-To: <1153935789.29375.226.camel@erato.phig.org> References: <44C6D86F.4@glezos.com> <1153932185.29375.219.camel@erato.phig.org> <44C7A62B.4020103@glezos.com> <1153935789.29375.226.camel@erato.phig.org> Message-ID: <44C7B052.1080804@glezos.com> O/H Karsten Wade ??????: > On Wed, 2006-07-26 at 18:28 +0100, Dimitris Glezos wrote: >> O/H Karsten Wade ??????: >>> On Wed, 2006-07-26 at 03:50 +0100, Dimitris Glezos wrote: >>>> Are there any plans to move the FAQs from the wiki to the Docs? >>> What we planned, at the suggestion of Rahul, is to pull the FAQ directly >>> into the release notes. This puts the data on the local system for >>> off-line value, linked directly from the default Firefox homepage. >> -1. The FAQs might increase in size and the RN are already quite large >> (especially with nochunks). > > I think the idea of including it in fedora-release-note would be as a > separate HTML file, *not* as part of the release note HTML itself. Sorry Karsten, didn't realize that you meant "directly into the release notes" *package*. Rahul, please, don't be snappy. This isn't easy, especially for people who still learn the english language and are new to the contribution process. >> Great then. Can someone point out the process of extracting the data >> from the wiki? > > We need to update our Wiki to the latest MoinMoin code, that support the > output to XML with fixes that Mikko has been working on for his Summer > of Code project. > > Fedora Infrastructure has the action for the upgrade and is working on > it. We'll get updates from the OTRS ticket: > > https://admin.fedoraproject.org/tickets/customer.pl?Action=CustomerTicketZoom&TicketID=67 Great then. I believe translators will prefer the two docs (relnotes and faq) to have different PO files and not one. -dim -- Dimitris Glezos Jabber ID: glezos at jabber.org, GPG: 0xA5A04C3B http://dimitris.glezos.com/ "He who gives up functionality for ease of use loses both and deserves neither." (Anonymous) -- From dimitris at glezos.com Wed Jul 26 18:21:04 2006 From: dimitris at glezos.com (Dimitris Glezos) Date: Wed, 26 Jul 2006 19:21:04 +0100 Subject: Suggestions for system home page Message-ID: <44C7B290.80900@glezos.com> OK, I'll throw yet another idea on the table here. :) I sat back and thought a bit about the default home page of the browser, served at file:///usr/share/doc/HTML/index.html. I feel it isn't really what the users should see as a system home page. What we should aim is a page that feels like "home", something welcoming, a collection of useful information for the desktop. Some random ideas follow: 1. For start, that page should be a collection of useful documentation links, with clever use of graphics and positioning. 2. Ideas of docs that should be included are a desktop guide, the release notes, FAQs and links to other useful documentation, like fedorafaq.org, fedora news, fedora people, etc. Links to online content should be specially noted, because not everybody is 24/7 connected. 3. The presentation should be in a pleasant way, keeping in mind that the initial page should be short, simple, sweet and handy. So that the user will *want* to use them, to learn more and browse through the pages. Also, it should have a differenet look and feel than fp.org. 4. An infobox with "docs news" would be nice, like "From July 2006, a new guide that might interest you, is available at http://...". Could be irritating though. 5. Text ideas: "This is a collection of documentation about your system, a place where you can explore the world of Fedora." ... "If this is the first time you are using Fedora, be sure to check out the following documents:" 6. Ideally, the user should be able to search in this (small) documentation database. Or, even better, be able to aggregate content from various documents, like his doc db, the online docs and the wiki. Hell, we could even be able to aggregate there (or at a separate "live" page) latest planet posts, news, etc. Of course, this dynamic content is a totally different story. An example of a nice-looking splash home page is the initial screen of the Eclipse platform [1]. -dim [1]: Screenshot found on the web: http://207.56.100.120/221Spring2006/EclipseWelcomeGrab.jpg -- Dimitris Glezos Jabber ID: glezos at jabber.org, GPG: 0xA5A04C3B http://dimitris.glezos.com/ "He who gives up functionality for ease of use loses both and deserves neither." (Anonymous) -- From kwade at redhat.com Thu Jul 27 07:57:34 2006 From: kwade at redhat.com (Karsten Wade) Date: Thu, 27 Jul 2006 00:57:34 -0700 Subject: merging PO files from i18n.redhat.com Message-ID: <1153987054.29375.310.camel@erato.phig.org> For all translators who have been working directly in cvs.fedoraproject.org: Tonight, new PO files were put in to cvs.fedoraproject.org from i18n.redhat.com. To protect against conflicts in the merge and losing work, I asked AS Alaam to send me certain, specific PO files. Those PO files are: el, fr, it. I will now email the three translators who last committed to those PO files in cvs.fedoraproject.org. Tomorrow we are going to be testing all languages, including the ones that build without error into the ISO. For the test3 release, we should all work in i18n.redhat.com; if you do not have an account with the Fedora Translation system, now is the time to get one. - Karsten -- Karsten Wade, RHCE, 108 Editor ^ Fedora Documentation Project Sr. Developer Relations Mgr. | fedoraproject.org/wiki/DocsProject quaid.108.redhat.com | gpg key: AD0E0C41 ////////////////////////////////// \\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\ -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: signature.asc Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 189 bytes Desc: This is a digitally signed message part URL: From sundaram at fedoraproject.org Thu Jul 27 16:07:42 2006 From: sundaram at fedoraproject.org (Rahul) Date: Thu, 27 Jul 2006 21:37:42 +0530 Subject: Suggestions for system home page In-Reply-To: <44C7B290.80900@glezos.com> References: <44C7B290.80900@glezos.com> Message-ID: <44C8E4CE.10708@fedoraproject.org> Dimitris Glezos wrote: > OK, I'll throw yet another idea on the table here. :) > > I sat back and thought a bit about the default home page of the browser, > served at file:///usr/share/doc/HTML/index.html. I feel it isn't really > what the users should see as a system home page. > > What we should aim is a page that feels like "home", something > welcoming, a collection of useful information for the desktop. Some > random ideas follow: > > 1. For start, that page should be a collection of useful documentation > links, with clever use of graphics and positioning. > > 2. Ideas of docs that should be included are a desktop guide, the > release notes, FAQs and links to other useful documentation, like > fedorafaq.org, fedora news, fedora people, etc. Links to online content > should be specially noted, because not everybody is 24/7 connected. > > 3. The presentation should be in a pleasant way, keeping in mind that > the initial page should be short, simple, sweet and handy. So that the > user will *want* to use them, to learn more and browse through the > pages. Also, it should have a differenet look and feel than fp.org. All these are good ideas and we have had some discussions before but I have been able to followup and get it done myself. My last effort morphed into content that went into release notes overview itself and into tours http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Tours > > 4. An infobox with "docs news" would be nice, like "From July 2006, a > new guide that might interest you, is available at http://...". Could be > irritating though. A "welcome application" has been suggested but random notifications like this are bound to annoy people pretty soon. > > 5. Text ideas: "This is a collection of documentation about your > system, a place where you can explore the world of Fedora." ... > "If this is the first time you are using Fedora, be sure to check > out the following documents:" > > 6. Ideally, the user should be able to search in this (small) > documentation database. Or, even better, be able to aggregate content > from various documents, like his doc db, the online docs and the wiki. > Hell, we could even be able to aggregate there (or at a separate "live" > page) latest planet posts, news, etc. Of course, this dynamic content is > a totally different story. FC5 has a About Fedora menu item which has some pointers and you can search in it since it uses Yelp, the GNOME help application. > > > An example of a nice-looking splash home page is the initial screen of > the Eclipse platform [1]. > This is not just a front page, its part of the application. We could do something similar with just HTML and CSS. Rahul From dimitris at glezos.com Thu Jul 27 17:02:54 2006 From: dimitris at glezos.com (Dimitris Glezos) Date: Thu, 27 Jul 2006 18:02:54 +0100 Subject: Suggestions for system home page In-Reply-To: <44C8E4CE.10708@fedoraproject.org> References: <44C7B290.80900@glezos.com> <44C8E4CE.10708@fedoraproject.org> Message-ID: <44C8F1BE.3000602@glezos.com> O/H Rahul ??????: > Dimitris Glezos wrote: >> OK, I'll throw yet another idea on the table here. :) >> >> I sat back and thought a bit about the default home page of the browser, >> served at file:///usr/share/doc/HTML/index.html. I feel it isn't really >> what the users should see as a system home page. >> >> What we should aim is a page that feels like "home", something >> welcoming, a collection of useful information for the desktop. I prepared a draft picture of what I have in mind. You can see it here: http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/DimitrisGlezos/SystemHomepage Comments, suggestions, rants welcome. >> >> Some random ideas follow: >> >> 1. For start, that page should be a collection of useful documentation >> links, with clever use of graphics and positioning. >> >> 2. Ideas of docs that should be included are a desktop guide, the >> release notes, FAQs and links to other useful documentation, like >> fedorafaq.org, fedora news, fedora people, etc. Links to online content >> should be specially noted, because not everybody is 24/7 connected. >> >> 3. The presentation should be in a pleasant way, keeping in mind that >> the initial page should be short, simple, sweet and handy. So that the >> user will *want* to use them, to learn more and browse through the >> pages. Also, it should have a differenet look and feel than fp.org. > > All these are good ideas and we have had some discussions before but I > have been able to followup and get it done myself. My last effort > morphed into content that went into release notes overview itself and > into tours > > http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Tours > > >> >> 4. An infobox with "docs news" would be nice, like "From July 2006, a >> new guide that might interest you, is available at http://...". Could be >> irritating though. > > A "welcome application" has been suggested but random notifications like > this are bound to annoy people pretty soon. I agree. Nevertheless, I believe we should probably not dismiss the idea of having a box *somewhere* to be able to notify users of something important. Having it at the home page of the browser is much less annoying than a pop-up in the notification area for example. Also, giving the user the choice of information level (important news, security notices, nothing at all) would ensure minimum annoyance levels. Of course, again, these require scripting, so they remain just future ideas for now. >> 5. Text ideas: "This is a collection of documentation about your >> system, a place where you can explore the world of Fedora." ... >> "If this is the first time you are using Fedora, be sure to check >> out the following documents:" > >> >> 6. Ideally, the user should be able to search in this (small) >> documentation database. Or, even better, be able to aggregate content >> from various documents, like his doc db, the online docs and the wiki. >> Hell, we could even be able to aggregate there (or at a separate "live" >> page) latest planet posts, news, etc. Of course, this dynamic content is >> a totally different story. > > > FC5 has a About Fedora menu item which has some pointers and you can > search in it since it uses Yelp, the GNOME help application. This is good and I suggest we should expand it and promote it more. I didn't know it existed. Good work. -dim >> An example of a nice-looking splash home page is the initial screen of >> the Eclipse platform [1]. >> > > This is not just a front page, its part of the application. We could do > something similar with just HTML and CSS. > > Rahul > -- Dimitris Glezos Jabber ID: glezos at jabber.org, GPG: 0xA5A04C3B http://dimitris.glezos.com/ "He who gives up functionality for ease of use loses both and deserves neither." (Anonymous) -- From sundaram at fedoraproject.org Thu Jul 27 17:38:56 2006 From: sundaram at fedoraproject.org (Rahul) Date: Thu, 27 Jul 2006 23:08:56 +0530 Subject: Suggestions for system home page In-Reply-To: <44C8F1BE.3000602@glezos.com> References: <44C7B290.80900@glezos.com> <44C8E4CE.10708@fedoraproject.org> <44C8F1BE.3000602@glezos.com> Message-ID: <44C8FA30.9010503@fedoraproject.org> Dimitris Glezos wrote: > O/H Rahul ??????: >> Dimitris Glezos wrote: >>> OK, I'll throw yet another idea on the table here. :) >>> >>> I sat back and thought a bit about the default home page of the browser, >>> served at file:///usr/share/doc/HTML/index.html. I feel it isn't really >>> what the users should see as a system home page. >>> >>> What we should aim is a page that feels like "home", something >>> welcoming, a collection of useful information for the desktop. > > I prepared a draft picture of what I have in mind. You can see it here: > > http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/DimitrisGlezos/SystemHomepage > > Comments, suggestions, rants welcome. Excellent. A few minor nit picks. Can you use the icon set from http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Artwork/BluecurveAndBeyond? This is the icon set that is going to be included in FC6 and the homepage style should fit with the rest of the desktop. If you need more specific icons, fedora-art list has people who can help out. I am not sure whether the getting started guide, desktop user guide and administration guide are going to written and completed in time for FC6. The release notes package has been split up in the development tree which makes it easier to update this page during release time however. As a mockup thats fine. Key features can be replaced by a link to the HelpWanted wiki page IMO. We need to encourage people to contribute more than tell him how great Fedora is since they already need to install it to see his page. The blurb on getting started guide refers to "Fedora Core Linux". We dont use that name. For consistency, change it into Fedora Core or just Fedora especially if it covers software in Fedora Extras too. The FAQ should be placed right below the release notes since they are both local documents and of higher priority than other guides. For comparison and ideas, http://www.redhat.com/fedora/. Thanks Rahul From sundaram at fedoraproject.org Thu Jul 27 17:47:35 2006 From: sundaram at fedoraproject.org (Rahul) Date: Thu, 27 Jul 2006 23:17:35 +0530 Subject: Suggestions for system home page In-Reply-To: <44C8F1BE.3000602@glezos.com> References: <44C7B290.80900@glezos.com> <44C8E4CE.10708@fedoraproject.org> <44C8F1BE.3000602@glezos.com> Message-ID: <44C8FC37.8070901@fedoraproject.org> Dimitris Glezos wrote: > > I agree. > > Nevertheless, I believe we should probably not dismiss the idea of > having a box *somewhere* to be able to notify users of something > important. Having it at the home page of the browser is much less > annoying than a pop-up in the notification area for example. Also, > giving the user the choice of information level (important news, > security notices, nothing at all) would ensure minimum annoyance levels. > Of course, again, these require scripting, so they remain just future > ideas for now. > I am not dismissing the idea but it goes beyond a simple text page to pull in updates like that. Copying Luke Macken (the guy behind our updates system) to see if there is anything we can do about this now. ON the other hand, if you can work on this or a "Welcome Application" I think that would be quite useful. Rahul From tombo at adamantio.net Thu Jul 27 23:35:19 2006 From: tombo at adamantio.net (Francesco Tombolini) Date: Fri, 28 Jul 2006 01:35:19 +0200 Subject: merging PO files from i18n.redhat.com In-Reply-To: <1153987054.29375.310.camel@erato.phig.org> References: <1153987054.29375.310.camel@erato.phig.org> Message-ID: <200607280135.24392.tombo@adamantio.net> Hi karsten, I have updated i18n.r.c with my last po. I hope it works, next time I will work only on i18n.r.c. Bye -- Francesco Tombolini Key fingerprint = EDA9 7504 AA93 CEFC 5990 1356 8584 6B05 F140 5F73 http://www.adamantio.net -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 189 bytes Desc: not available URL: From jlm at magnifisys.com Fri Jul 28 03:06:26 2006 From: jlm at magnifisys.com (James McElhannon) Date: Thu, 27 Jul 2006 22:06:26 -0500 Subject: Fedora Installation Guide writer opening In-Reply-To: <1153926390.29375.193.camel@erato.phig.org> References: <1152859668.7064.383.camel@erato.phig.org> <44C050CC.6030508@fedoraproject.org> <1153503168.1313.51.camel@erato.phig.org> <44C39C29.6070704@magnifisys.com> <44C3A5DC.5030309@fedoraproject.org> <44C64254.5030702@magnifisys.com> <1153926390.29375.193.camel@erato.phig.org> Message-ID: <44C97F32.60201@magnifisys.com> -----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- Hash: SHA1 Karsten Wade wrote: > On Tue, 2006-07-25 at 11:09 -0500, James McElhannon wrote: > >> I guess what I'm thinking about is an article whose link was distributed >> to the group. At the end of the article, Karsten's profile was given as: >> >> >> About the author >> Karsten Wade is the leader of the Fedora Documentation Project and a >> senior developer relations manager at Red Hat. Formerly a services >> consultant and Engineering technical writer, Karsten is now focused on >> bringing corporate developers the Red Hat world of content, community, >> and collaboration found in the best practices of free/libre and open >> source software. >> >> >> That sounds like someone whose job is based on Fedora. So, based on >> that, I would stand by my earlier statement (at least for Karsten): > > Rahul is correct. I've been a volunteer for the Fedora Documentation > Project for over two years and have given at least as much personal time > as any other individual involved. > > What you are quoting is a biography. I could have added, "Father of two > dancing, singing, acting, gardening, currently sleeping daughters," but > that doesn't mean I get paid by Red Hat to be a Dad. :) > >> >> For the folks on the list with redhat email addresses, isn't it your job >> to be participants in this and other related projects? Isn't it your >> job to increase the participation in such projects and to heighten the >> profile of Fedora? >> >> >> So, I take issue with criticism of those who are exclusively using their >> own precious time and effort without any job-related association. > > You have to accept that you are mistaken. No one at Red Hat is paid to > work on Fedora documentation, especially not myself. I am not rated on > my performance in Fedora. If my work output suffers because of working > on Fedora, that can affect my performance rating at work. If I have > two deadlines, one internal and one Fedora, I am in the same position as > every single one of you.[1] > > So considering that, do you understand my wondering what you all are up > to? > > Sorry if that wasn't clear. I know it is a common misconception that > everyone with an @redhat.com email address is paid to work on Fedora. > Unfortunately, it is just not true. > > - Karsten > > [1] Ironically, there is at least one jerk-of-a-manager out there who > looked at all my work in Fedora and figured that I must be shirking on > my for-pay work; how could I be doing so much of both? His mistake was > assuming that I clock only 40 hours of combined work. At about another > 20 hours a week on a regular basis, and now you can understand how I can > do a full-time job and a part-time volunteer job. > My apologies... James - -- James McElhannon jlm at magnifisys.com MagnifiSys, LLC www.magnifisys.com -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: GnuPG v1.4.3 (MingW32) iD8DBQFEyX8y9KWEMihy1VsRAhF7AJ48nUoANxAcnH21kRSEKjvarlTnAQCfRD4A lPQgkGE4+uY6r5Q6JSfZ++8= =WJij -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- From uros_djokic at yahoo.com Fri Jul 28 12:32:29 2006 From: uros_djokic at yahoo.com (Uros Djokic) Date: Fri, 28 Jul 2006 05:32:29 -0700 (PDT) Subject: Uros Djokic Message-ID: <20060728123229.78776.qmail@web30213.mail.mud.yahoo.com> Uros Djokic Belgrade,Serbia At the moment I am temporary maintaining of Asterisk Server running on Fedora. I want only to translate some of your documents like Fedora Weekly News to Serbian. I finished high school for junior-programmers and all Linux Courses on Electro-Techinc-Faculty in Belgrade. I have basic knowledge about Asterisk PBX, Apache Web Server, Squid,Proftpd,Postfix Mail Server,Samba,NTFs,MySQL and PostgreSQL but for now I plan only to translate your documents.Maybe in future when I gain some more experience I will try to write some documents. [uros at 212-200-207-152 .ssh]$ gpg --fingerprint uros_djokic at yahoo.com pub 1024D/840304C5 2006-07-28 [expires: 2007-07-28] Key fingerprint = 3CF6 1F75 124D AE82 A9AF A67F 59E7 1312 8403 04C5 uid Uros Djokic (Prevodilac) sub 2048g/76D06DA1 2006-07-28 [expires: 2007-07-28] Sincerely yours, Uros --------------------------------- Yahoo! Messenger with Voice. Make PC-to-Phone Calls to the US (and 30+ countries) for 2?/min or less. -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From edward.haddock at hawaiiantel.net Fri Jul 28 19:33:31 2006 From: edward.haddock at hawaiiantel.net (Edward Haddock) Date: Fri, 28 Jul 2006 09:33:31 -1000 Subject: Aloha Message-ID: <1154115211.9094.4.camel@localhost.localdomain> Aloha everyone, I am not sure what the proper procedures are but I need to discontinue, for the present, working with the Fedora Documentation Project. Rather than not saying anything at all, I want you all to know that due to personal reasons I have very little time to dedicate to the project and don't want to just lurk in the background. It is my hope that things will improve for me here and I can start contributing again. I am uncertain if I need to leave the email list or not. I will leave that up to the owners to decide. If left on the list I will continue to try and read posts and if I can offer my opinion and such but again, that is up to the owners. Thank you all for a very rewarding experience. I had hoped I could have contributed more. Mahalo, Edward -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: signature.asc Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 189 bytes Desc: This is a digitally signed message part URL: From kwade at redhat.com Fri Jul 28 19:45:59 2006 From: kwade at redhat.com (Karsten Wade) Date: Fri, 28 Jul 2006 12:45:59 -0700 Subject: CVS access In-Reply-To: <6894514e0607250842q6920cb0m1866214510f41c8@mail.gmail.com> References: <6894514e0607250842q6920cb0m1866214510f41c8@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <1154115959.28960.51.camel@erato.phig.org> On Tue, 2006-07-25 at 18:42 +0300, Serhat G?ng?r wrote: > Hi, > I still can't access the Documents CVS Repo. My membership in the > cvsdocs group isn't approved. Do I have to do something else? Sorry about the delays we've caused. We recently switched to a sponsorship model. For translators, the sponsor could be: 1. A translator from the same, or if not available 2. A translator from another language, or if not available 3. Any experienced CVS user How does that sound to everyone? The sponsor is there to make sure that your work in CVS is accurate. They also step in to solve problems and fix mistakes that may be made by a new CVS user. Who can is available to sponsor new translators in CVS? - Karsten -- Karsten Wade, RHCE, 108 Editor ^ Fedora Documentation Project Sr. Developer Relations Mgr. | fedoraproject.org/wiki/DocsProject quaid.108.redhat.com | gpg key: AD0E0C41 ////////////////////////////////// \\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\ -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: signature.asc Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 189 bytes Desc: This is a digitally signed message part URL: From kwade at redhat.com Fri Jul 28 19:51:21 2006 From: kwade at redhat.com (Karsten Wade) Date: Fri, 28 Jul 2006 12:51:21 -0700 Subject: Aloha In-Reply-To: <1154115211.9094.4.camel@localhost.localdomain> References: <1154115211.9094.4.camel@localhost.localdomain> Message-ID: <1154116281.28960.59.camel@erato.phig.org> On Fri, 2006-07-28 at 09:33 -1000, Edward Haddock wrote: > Aloha everyone, > I am not sure what the proper procedures are but I need to discontinue, > for the present, working with the Fedora Documentation Project. Rather > than not saying anything at all, I want you all to know that due to > personal reasons I have very little time to dedicate to the project and > don't want to just lurk in the background. It is my hope that things > will improve for me here and I can start contributing again. I am > uncertain if I need to leave the email list or not. I will leave that up > to the owners to decide. If left on the list I will continue to try and > read posts and if I can offer my opinion and such but again, that is up > to the owners. Thank you all for a very rewarding experience. I had > hoped I could have contributed more. Aloha Edward: Welcome to free software; you are not alone in having this kind of thing happen with your personal life. It is *much* appreciated that you give a heads up that you are disappearing; such courtesy is unfortunately less common. Your choice to remain subscribed, active, and such forth is entirely up to you. I recommend personally to keep your accounts active, since you never know what life brings and such. Thanks again, looking forward to seeing you around again, Karsten -- Karsten Wade, RHCE, 108 Editor ^ Fedora Documentation Project Sr. Developer Relations Mgr. | fedoraproject.org/wiki/DocsProject quaid.108.redhat.com | gpg key: AD0E0C41 ////////////////////////////////// \\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\ -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: signature.asc Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 189 bytes Desc: This is a digitally signed message part URL: From kwade at redhat.com Fri Jul 28 19:54:18 2006 From: kwade at redhat.com (Karsten Wade) Date: Fri, 28 Jul 2006 12:54:18 -0700 Subject: merging PO files from i18n.redhat.com In-Reply-To: <200607280135.24392.tombo@adamantio.net> References: <1153987054.29375.310.camel@erato.phig.org> <200607280135.24392.tombo@adamantio.net> Message-ID: <1154116458.28960.63.camel@erato.phig.org> On Fri, 2006-07-28 at 01:35 +0200, Francesco Tombolini wrote: > Hi karsten, > I have updated i18n.r.c with my last po. Can you make sure that the PO in cvs.fedoraproject.org is the latest? > I hope it works, next time I will work only on i18n.r.c. That is probably a good idea; we would have directed everyone to do that if we were sure that we could get the PO files into and out of that system. For test3, we should work in i18n.r.c for translation of relnotes. We'll make plans accordingly and announce them here in advance. - Karsten -- Karsten Wade, RHCE, 108 Editor ^ Fedora Documentation Project Sr. Developer Relations Mgr. | fedoraproject.org/wiki/DocsProject quaid.108.redhat.com | gpg key: AD0E0C41 ////////////////////////////////// \\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\ -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: signature.asc Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 189 bytes Desc: This is a digitally signed message part URL: From stickster at gmail.com Fri Jul 28 19:56:08 2006 From: stickster at gmail.com (Paul W. Frields) Date: Fri, 28 Jul 2006 15:56:08 -0400 Subject: CVS access In-Reply-To: <1154115959.28960.51.camel@erato.phig.org> References: <6894514e0607250842q6920cb0m1866214510f41c8@mail.gmail.com> <1154115959.28960.51.camel@erato.phig.org> Message-ID: <1154116568.18527.7.camel@localhost.localdomain> On Fri, 2006-07-28 at 12:45 -0700, Karsten Wade wrote: > On Tue, 2006-07-25 at 18:42 +0300, Serhat G?ng?r wrote: > > Hi, > > I still can't access the Documents CVS Repo. My membership in the > > cvsdocs group isn't approved. Do I have to do something else? > > Sorry about the delays we've caused. > > We recently switched to a sponsorship model. For translators, the > sponsor could be: > > 1. A translator from the same, or if not available > 2. A translator from another language, or if not available > 3. Any experienced CVS user > > How does that sound to everyone? > > The sponsor is there to make sure that your work in CVS is accurate. > They also step in to solve problems and fix mistakes that may be made by > a new CVS user. > > Who can is available to sponsor new translators in CVS? I honestly would like to sponsor people but I am at the limit of my time now between the toolchain, the Board, and other Fedora-related work. (Did I mention I need to plug away at the DocGuide, mirror-tutorial and other stuff?) Do we have any trusted/frequent CVS users around who can help? -- Paul W. Frields, RHCE http://paul.frields.org/ gpg fingerprint: 3DA6 A0AC 6D58 FEC4 0233 5906 ACDB C937 BD11 3717 Fedora Project Board: http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Board Fedora Docs Project: http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/DocsProject -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: signature.asc Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 189 bytes Desc: This is a digitally signed message part URL: From tombo at adamantio.net Sat Jul 29 07:30:03 2006 From: tombo at adamantio.net (Francesco Tombolini) Date: Sat, 29 Jul 2006 09:30:03 +0200 Subject: merging PO files from i18n.redhat.com In-Reply-To: <1154116458.28960.63.camel@erato.phig.org> References: <1153987054.29375.310.camel@erato.phig.org> <200607280135.24392.tombo@adamantio.net> <1154116458.28960.63.camel@erato.phig.org> Message-ID: <200607290930.11875.tombo@adamantio.net> Alle 21:54, venerd? 28 luglio 2006, Karsten Wade ha scritto: > Can you make sure that the PO in cvs.fedoraproject.org is the latest? Yes it is. (I dont' think that the "huge" italian translation team is actually capable to produce more than one version of file at time...) -- Francesco Tombolini Key fingerprint = EDA9 7504 AA93 CEFC 5990 1356 8584 6B05 F140 5F73 http://www.adamantio.net -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 189 bytes Desc: not available URL: From kwade at redhat.com Sat Jul 29 16:05:22 2006 From: kwade at redhat.com (Karsten Wade) Date: Sat, 29 Jul 2006 09:05:22 -0700 Subject: Fedora FAQs in Docs? In-Reply-To: <44C7B052.1080804@glezos.com> References: <44C6D86F.4@glezos.com> <1153932185.29375.219.camel@erato.phig.org> <44C7A62B.4020103@glezos.com> <1153935789.29375.226.camel@erato.phig.org> <44C7B052.1080804@glezos.com> Message-ID: <1154189122.28960.173.camel@erato.phig.org> On Wed, 2006-07-26 at 19:11 +0100, Dimitris Glezos wrote: > O/H Karsten Wade ??????: > > I think the idea of including it in fedora-release-note would be as a > > separate HTML file, *not* as part of the release note HTML itself. > > Sorry Karsten, didn't realize that you meant "directly into the release > notes" *package*. Yes, sorry, this package is new. We have had a CVS repository for a while, but the output ended up in the fedora-release package. We (meaning Paul W. Frield with the support of Jesse Keating) have created a new fedora-release-notes package. This means we can issue updates for content and translation. This was harder to do with the fedora-release package. > I believe translators will prefer the two docs (relnotes and faq) to > have different PO files and not one. We'll just have to hack the Makefile a bit for that, right? If you can, take a look at what that would take. I just checked in a current dump to DocBook of the FAQ, release-notes/devel/en_US/FAQ.xml. Can you get a stand-alone FAQ.po out of that? If so, then we'll look at treating the FAQ like we do the Docs/Beats and RELEASE-NOTES.po -- freezing, converting to XML, and including in i18n.r.c for everyone to translate. - Karsten -- Karsten Wade, RHCE, 108 Editor ^ Fedora Documentation Project Sr. Developer Relations Mgr. | fedoraproject.org/wiki/DocsProject quaid.108.redhat.com | gpg key: AD0E0C41 ////////////////////////////////// \\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\ -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: signature.asc Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 189 bytes Desc: This is a digitally signed message part URL: From kwade at redhat.com Sat Jul 29 16:11:10 2006 From: kwade at redhat.com (Karsten Wade) Date: Sat, 29 Jul 2006 09:11:10 -0700 Subject: Uros Djokic In-Reply-To: <20060728123229.78776.qmail@web30213.mail.mud.yahoo.com> References: <20060728123229.78776.qmail@web30213.mail.mud.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <1154189470.28960.179.camel@erato.phig.org> On Fri, 2006-07-28 at 05:32 -0700, Uros Djokic wrote: > Uros Djokic > * Belgrade,Serbia > * At the moment I am temporary maintaining of Asterisk Server > running on Fedora. > * I want only to translate some of your documents like Fedora > Weekly News to Serbian. Fedora Weekly News (FWN) is not produced by the Documentation Project. Thomas (if you are out there) -- are you interested in making the FWN into XML so that it can be translated using the PO/POT method? Meanwhile, Uros, you want to read (and perhaps translate?): http://fedora.redhat.com/docs/translation-quick-start-guide/en/ All current translations are available at: http://fedora.redhat.com/docs/ This is useful for new writer/editors/translators in this project: http://fedora.redhat.com/docs/translation-quick-start-guide/en/ Welcome! cheers - Karsten -- Karsten Wade, RHCE, 108 Editor ^ Fedora Documentation Project Sr. Developer Relations Mgr. | fedoraproject.org/wiki/DocsProject quaid.108.redhat.com | gpg key: AD0E0C41 ////////////////////////////////// \\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\ -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: signature.asc Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 189 bytes Desc: This is a digitally signed message part URL: