From docs-list at fedoralinks.org Sun Oct 1 01:35:01 2006 From: docs-list at fedoralinks.org (Robert 'Bob' Jensen) Date: Sat, 30 Sep 2006 20:35:01 -0500 Subject: Release notes translations Message-ID: <451F1B45.6010705@fedoralinks.org> To meet our deadline for the release notes to make it in to the ISOs for FC6 we need to get the translations merged in to the docs CVS. If someone can make this happen and let me know when it is done it would be appreciated. -- Robert 'Bob' Jensen * * http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/BobJensen gpg fingerprint: F9F4 7243 4243 0043 2C45 97AF E8A4 C3AE 42EB 0BC6 Fedora Docs Projects FDSCo http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/DocsProject From docs-list at fedoralinks.org Sun Oct 1 01:42:25 2006 From: docs-list at fedoralinks.org (Robert 'Bob' Jensen) Date: Sat, 30 Sep 2006 20:42:25 -0500 Subject: treediff for Release Notes Message-ID: <451F1D01.4030709@fedoralinks.org> We still need the treediff for the release notes to go in to the ISO images. We will need this no later than Monday morning. Sunday would be much better. If you can help us out by creating the diff and attaching it to the wiki [1] it would be appreciated. Thank you, Bob [1] http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Docs/Beats/PackageChanges -- Robert 'Bob' Jensen * * http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/BobJensen gpg fingerprint: F9F4 7243 4243 0043 2C45 97AF E8A4 C3AE 42EB 0BC6 Fedora Docs Projects FDSCo http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/DocsProject From nman64 at n-man.com Sun Oct 1 03:26:41 2006 From: nman64 at n-man.com (Patrick W. Barnes) Date: Sat, 30 Sep 2006 22:26:41 -0500 Subject: Problem in f.r.c/docs/fedora-install-guide-en/fc5 Message-ID: <200609302226.43289.nman64@n-man.com> I'm not sure if someone has been doing work on the Docs infrastructure, but something is a little broken. Pages of the Installation Guide for FC5 are damaged. They are being rendered with an HTML header instead of using the PHP include. This causes breakage when PHP functions are called for the footer of the pages. An example of the error output: PHP Fatal error: Call to a member function on a non-object in /scratch/fedorascratch/LIVE-2006-09-30-20.45/tmp/html/docs/fedora-install-guide-en/fc5/ch-rootpassword.php on line 50 PHP Fatal error: Call to a member function on a non-object in /scratch/fedorascratch/LIVE-2006-09-30-20.45/tmp/html/docs/fedora-install-guide-en/fc5/ch-timezone.php on line 25 PHP Fatal error: Call to a member function on a non-object in /scratch/fedorascratch/LIVE-2006-09-30-20.45/tmp/html/docs/fedora-install-guide-en/fc5/sn-utc.php on line 22 Tickets are being automatically created in the Fedora Ticket System every half-hour. Whomever is working on the Docs infrastructure or the Installation Guide should check on this. If you need a hand, ping me off-list. -- Patrick "The N-Man" Barnes nman64 at n-man.com http://www.n-man.com/ LinkedIn: http://www.linkedin.com/in/nman64 Have I been helpful? Rate my assistance! http://rate.affero.net/nman64/ -- -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 189 bytes Desc: not available URL: From nman64 at n-man.com Sun Oct 1 03:58:07 2006 From: nman64 at n-man.com (Patrick W. Barnes) Date: Sat, 30 Sep 2006 22:58:07 -0500 Subject: Printable Installation Guide Message-ID: <200609302258.11047.nman64@n-man.com> https://bugzilla.redhat.com/bugzilla/show_bug.cgi?id=191018 -- Patrick "The N-Man" Barnes nman64 at n-man.com http://www.n-man.com/ LinkedIn: http://www.linkedin.com/in/nman64 Have I been helpful? Rate my assistance! http://rate.affero.net/nman64/ -- -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 189 bytes Desc: not available URL: From docs-list at fedoralinks.org Sun Oct 1 04:17:00 2006 From: docs-list at fedoralinks.org (Robert 'Bob' Jensen) Date: Sat, 30 Sep 2006 23:17:00 -0500 Subject: treediff for Release Notes In-Reply-To: <451F1D01.4030709@fedoralinks.org> References: <451F1D01.4030709@fedoralinks.org> Message-ID: <451F413C.9030703@fedoralinks.org> Robert 'Bob' Jensen wrote: > We still need the treediff for the release notes to go in to the ISO > images. We will need this no later than Monday morning. Sunday would be > much better. If you can help us out by creating the diff and attaching > it to the wiki [1] it would be appreciated. > > Thank you, > Bob > > [1] http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Docs/Beats/PackageChanges > We got the diff, Karsten was able to do it. We had forgot that from last time. Sorry to bother you all, Bob -- Robert 'Bob' Jensen * * http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/BobJensen gpg fingerprint: F9F4 7243 4243 0043 2C45 97AF E8A4 C3AE 42EB 0BC6 Fedora Docs Projects FDSCo http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/DocsProject From stickster at gmail.com Sun Oct 1 13:57:47 2006 From: stickster at gmail.com (Paul W. Frields) Date: Sun, 01 Oct 2006 09:57:47 -0400 Subject: Release notes translation -- what's up? In-Reply-To: <1159473123.2899.24.camel@MrTomLinux.workstation> References: <451B1C04.1090005@glezos.com> <1159409724.4567.60.camel@localhost.localdomain> <1159473123.2899.24.camel@MrTomLinux.workstation> Message-ID: <1159711067.8657.23.camel@localhost.localdomain> On Thu, 2006-09-28 at 21:52 +0200, Thomas Canniot wrote: > Le mercredi 27 septembre 2006 ? 22:15 -0400, Paul W. Frields a ?crit : > > On Thu, 2006-09-28 at 01:49 +0100, Dimitris Glezos wrote: > > > We are less than 3 days before the translation freeze and the POT file for the > > > relnotes hasn't landed yet on i18n? > > > > > > Can we get some information about what's going on? > > > > The Docs Project folks have reached out for a number of Translation > > people, but with no luck -- > > > > -- UNTIL: Aman got back and checked in with us tonight. See his earlier > > message; the new POT is available which translators should merge and > > work on as soon as possible. We apologize for the short notice. We > > were about a day late or so with our output, which didn't help. Rest > > assured this is not the end of this particular story, and we are going > > to step up our efforts to jump-start improvement of this process. > > > Thanks, but ... when I look at all the modifications that have been made > for the last relnotes issue, I really feel disappointed. I thought that > keeping complete and up to date translations of all the relnotes issues > during summer would avoid having so much strings to translate for the > latest issue. I was wrong. > > It seems that beat writers were not keen on writing before fc6 final > release, then I should suggest that translators may need much more of a > week to translate the final relnotes issue. Moreover, more time could > avoid the panic/confusion that we saw this week. I couldn't agree more, Thomas. The blame falls on a lot of different factors: 1. The wiki makes it easier for people to put up release notes, but it also makes them easier to change. A lot of these changes are minor or cosmetic, but they still result in untranslated strings. I watched the wiki all summer, and edited it constantly to make sure that the language was clear and easier to translate. But the result is that translators are not necessarily saving themselves work by translating early and often. And yes, too many beat writers are waiting until the last minute. 2. When we edited the test3 version of the release notes, we used our new wiki conversion engine, and then the editors (including primarily me) retagged things into proper DocBook. When we got the new POT ready for final, we realized that we were going to have to retag everything the same way to avoid creating brand-new untranslated strings. As I understand the issue, msgmerge thinks these are completely different strings: "Use the command msgmerge -U." "Use the command msgmerge -U." Or at least they're "fuzzy." Which means the numbers *look* inflated. Maybe there's less work than it looks like, but a string is still a string, and someone has to look at it. 3. No one from the Translation Project management responded to our email for some time to move the POT. We were very lucky that Aman stopped by IRC -- I think he's still on vacation, no less -- and helped us out. 4. Our normal editorial staff had some unplanned downtime as a result of "real-life" issues. Sometimes these things happen, it's just life. But on top of that, we have *VERY* few people actively helping on Docs Project. In fact, you can probably count them on two hands. > I couldn't check my mail as much as I usually do this week. I got an > internet connection on Monday, but did not took the POT file as it was > not really up to date as it should. Now that I can, I am before a > 393-strings-that-need-overreading document. I am VERY sad to tell that I > won't be able to translate that much of strings in so a little time :'( > > French relnotes won't be on the DVD, oh sh*t :( I am very disappointed at the way this process went, but I feel that in a lot of ways, we really did do our best given the circumstances. However, that doesn't mean we can't improve. I would like to propose the following -- and I'm just brainstorming here: 1. No release notes translations to be done until test3, to minimize wasted effort from translators. *A LOT* changes from test1 until final, but not nearly as much from test3 until final. 2. Set the new deadline for translation *10 days* before the target date instead of 7. This gives us wiggle room, so at worst, if we're a day or two late, there's still more than a week to translate. 3. A sort of Docs/Translation "summit" meeting on IRC to work out a more rigorous scheduling routine, to avoid unnecessary delays. Your comments and thoughts are appreciated. I am setting the follow-up to fedora-trans-list. Any interested Docs people should be subscribed here as well. -- Paul W. Frields, RHCE http://paul.frields.org/ gpg fingerprint: 3DA6 A0AC 6D58 FEC4 0233 5906 ACDB C937 BD11 3717 Fedora Project Board: http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Board Fedora Docs Project: http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/DocsProject -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: signature.asc Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 189 bytes Desc: This is a digitally signed message part URL: From sundaram at fedoraproject.org Sun Oct 1 14:09:57 2006 From: sundaram at fedoraproject.org (Rahul Sundaram) Date: Sun, 01 Oct 2006 19:39:57 +0530 Subject: Release notes translation -- what's up? In-Reply-To: <1159711067.8657.23.camel@localhost.localdomain> References: <451B1C04.1090005@glezos.com> <1159409724.4567.60.camel@localhost.localdomain> <1159473123.2899.24.camel@MrTomLinux.workstation> <1159711067.8657.23.camel@localhost.localdomain> Message-ID: <451FCC35.4030603@fedoraproject.org> Paul W. Frields wrote: >> >> It seems that beat writers were not keen on writing before fc6 final >> release, then I should suggest that translators may need much more of a >> week to translate the final relnotes issue. Moreover, more time could >> avoid the panic/confusion that we saw this week. > > I couldn't agree more, Thomas. The blame falls on a lot of different > factors: 0. Our development processes need to be planned a bit ahead so that we dont see many last changes in the packages, artwork etc. > > 1. The wiki makes it easier for people to put up release notes, but it > also makes them easier to change. A lot of these changes are minor or > cosmetic, but they still result in untranslated strings. I watched the > wiki all summer, and edited it constantly to make sure that the language > was clear and easier to translate. But the result is that translators > are not necessarily saving themselves work by translating early and > often. And yes, too many beat writers are waiting until the last > minute. > Rahul From stickster at gmail.com Sun Oct 1 15:27:38 2006 From: stickster at gmail.com (Paul W. Frields) Date: Sun, 01 Oct 2006 11:27:38 -0400 Subject: Release notes translation -- what's up? In-Reply-To: <451FCC35.4030603@fedoraproject.org> References: <451B1C04.1090005@glezos.com> <1159409724.4567.60.camel@localhost.localdomain> <1159473123.2899.24.camel@MrTomLinux.workstation> <1159711067.8657.23.camel@localhost.localdomain> <451FCC35.4030603@fedoraproject.org> Message-ID: <1159716458.8657.32.camel@localhost.localdomain> On Sun, 2006-10-01 at 19:39 +0530, Rahul Sundaram wrote: > Paul W. Frields wrote: > > >> > >> It seems that beat writers were not keen on writing before fc6 final > >> release, then I should suggest that translators may need much more of a > >> week to translate the final relnotes issue. Moreover, more time could > >> avoid the panic/confusion that we saw this week. > > > > I couldn't agree more, Thomas. The blame falls on a lot of different > > factors: > > > 0. Our development processes need to be planned a bit ahead so that we > dont see many last changes in the packages, artwork etc. Yes, I've been saying this for some time, too. We need some sort of central project planning system that integrates with our functioning desktops to remind people when things need to get done. The current system of writing it on the wiki and emailing people manually is neither sufficient nor scalable. -- Paul W. Frields, RHCE http://paul.frields.org/ gpg fingerprint: 3DA6 A0AC 6D58 FEC4 0233 5906 ACDB C937 BD11 3717 Fedora Project Board: http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Board Fedora Docs Project: http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/DocsProject -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: signature.asc Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 189 bytes Desc: This is a digitally signed message part URL: From stickster at gmail.com Sun Oct 1 21:50:26 2006 From: stickster at gmail.com (Paul W. Frields) Date: Sun, 01 Oct 2006 17:50:26 -0400 Subject: UPDATE: More translation time! Message-ID: <1159739426.16696.40.camel@localhost.localdomain> Hello Translators, [ You're receiving this email personally because your email address was pulled from one of our PO files for the Fedora Core Release Notes. A copy is sent to fedora-trans-list as well. ] We understand that we piled a LOT of work on you guys for the FC6 Release Notes, with not very much time to do it. And we feel bad about it. This was entirely due to process problems, and had *nothing* to do with the great work you continue to do on a regular basis. A lot of the material entering the release notes came in on the wiki in the last week or two, meaning not only did we get the POT out late, but it was full of new strings in a lot of cases. I'd like to specially recognize Francesco Tombolini, working on the Italian translation. Francesco actually finished his entire PO file somehow, despite all the obstacles, so I wanted to single him out for some special praise! But we certainly can't expect everyone to get so much work done in such a small time. That's why we've secured MORE TIME for the release notes translation. We have a new deadline for PO delivery of: * * * 1200 UTC, Thu Oct 05 2006 * * * That's another ~3.5 days! In other words, we're trying to give you back just about every bit of time we cut by being late. You can continue to work on the existing POT in i18n.redhat.com/release-notes. We have changed nothing since it was delivered last week. WHAT WE COULD USE FROM YOU: (Other than the translation, of course!) Just a quick reply to this message. Let us know if you think you can finish the remaining work in that time. If you don't think this is a good idea, you don't have to do anything extra. But if you want some extra time, and will use it, please let us know as soon as you can! We will be discussing an improved plan for the FC7 cycle. Please join us on fedora-docs-list at redhat.com and put in your ideas if possible. cc: Core team, FDP -- Paul W. Frields, RHCE http://paul.frields.org/ gpg fingerprint: 3DA6 A0AC 6D58 FEC4 0233 5906 ACDB C937 BD11 3717 Fedora Project Board: http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Board Fedora Docs Project: http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/DocsProject -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: signature.asc Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 189 bytes Desc: This is a digitally signed message part URL: From guillermo.gomez at gmail.com Sun Oct 1 23:05:00 2006 From: guillermo.gomez at gmail.com (Gomix.homelinux.net) Date: Sun, 1 Oct 2006 19:05:00 -0400 Subject: UPDATE: More translation time! In-Reply-To: <1159739426.16696.40.camel@localhost.localdomain> References: <1159739426.16696.40.camel@localhost.localdomain> Message-ID: <63a901070610011605p58f0c4bdief14851631bad006@mail.gmail.com> I would like to help in the spanish version, pls let me know how proceed. The link to i18 is not working from your email. kr Guillermo G?mez Caracas/Venezuela On 10/1/06, Paul W. Frields wrote: > > > But we certainly can't expect everyone to get so much work done in such > a small time. That's why we've secured MORE TIME for the release notes > translation. We have a new deadline for PO delivery of: > > * * * 1200 UTC, Thu Oct 05 2006 * * * > > That's another ~3.5 days! In other words, we're trying to give you back > just about every bit of time we cut by being late. You can continue to > work on the existing POT in i18n.redhat.com/release-notes. We have > changed nothing since it was delivered last week. > > WHAT WE COULD USE FROM YOU: > > (Other than the translation, of course!) Just a quick reply to this > message. Let us know if you think you can finish the remaining work in > that time. If you don't think this is a good idea, you don't have to do > anything extra. But if you want some extra time, and will use it, > please let us know as soon as you can! > > We will be discussing an improved plan for the FC7 cycle. Please join > us on fedora-docs-list at redhat.com and put in your ideas if possible. > > > cc: Core team, FDP > > -- > Paul W. Frields, RHCE http://paul.frields.org/ > gpg fingerprint: 3DA6 A0AC 6D58 FEC4 0233 5906 ACDB C937 BD11 3717 > Fedora Project Board: http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Board > Fedora Docs Project: http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/DocsProject > > > -- > fedora-docs-list mailing list > fedora-docs-list at redhat.com > To unsubscribe: > https://www.redhat.com/mailman/listinfo/fedora-docs-list > > > -- Ing.Guillermo Gomez S. http://blog.gomix.org -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From nikosx at gmail.com Mon Oct 2 00:14:51 2006 From: nikosx at gmail.com (Nikos Charonitakis) Date: Mon, 2 Oct 2006 03:14:51 +0300 Subject: UPDATE: More translation time! In-Reply-To: <1159738004.16696.27.camel@localhost.localdomain> References: <1159738004.16696.27.camel@localhost.localdomain> Message-ID: <9366c3f50610011714l72710571m36078d913aa5544c@mail.gmail.com> thanks for extra time. Now we can do QA and complete Greek Release-notes. we will use it for sure. For Greek team Nikos Charonitakis On 10/2/06, Paul W. Frields wrote: > Hello Translators, > > [ You're receiving this email personally because your > email address was pulled from one of our PO files for > the Fedora Core Release Notes. A copy is sent to > fedora-trans-list as well. ] > > We understand that we piled a LOT of work on you guys for the FC6 > Release Notes, with not very much time to do it. And we feel bad about > it. This was entirely due to process problems, and had *nothing* to do > with the great work you continue to do on a regular basis. A lot of the > material entering the release notes came in on the wiki in the last week > or two, meaning not only did we get the POT out late, but it was full of > new strings in a lot of cases. > > I'd like to specially recognize Francesco Tombolini, working on the > Italian translation. Francesco actually finished his entire PO file > somehow, despite all the obstacles, so I wanted to single him out for > some special praise! > > But we certainly can't expect everyone to get so much work done in such > a small time. That's why we've secured MORE TIME for the release notes > translation. We have a new deadline for PO delivery of: > > * * * 1200 UTC, Thu Oct 05 2006 * * * > > That's another ~3.5 days! In other words, we're trying to give you back > just about every bit of time we cut by being late. You can continue to > work on the existing POT in i18n.redhat.com/release-notes. We have > changed nothing since it was delivered last week. > > WHAT WE COULD USE FROM YOU: > > (Other than the translation, of course!) Just a quick reply to this > message. Let us know if you think you can finish the remaining work in > that time. If you don't think this is a good idea, you don't have to do > anything extra. But if you want some extra time, and will use it, > please let us know as soon as you can! > > We will be discussing an improved plan for the FC7 cycle. Please join > us on fedora-docs-list at redhat.com and put in your ideas if possible. > > > cc: Core team, FDP > > -- > Paul W. Frields, RHCE http://paul.frields.org/ > gpg fingerprint: 3DA6 A0AC 6D58 FEC4 0233 5906 ACDB C937 BD11 3717 > Fedora Project Board: http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Board > Fedora Docs Project: http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/DocsProject > > > From stickster at gmail.com Mon Oct 2 00:49:17 2006 From: stickster at gmail.com (Paul W. Frields) Date: Sun, 01 Oct 2006 20:49:17 -0400 Subject: UPDATE: More translation time! In-Reply-To: <63a901070610011605p58f0c4bdief14851631bad006@mail.gmail.com> References: <1159739426.16696.40.camel@localhost.localdomain> <63a901070610011605p58f0c4bdief14851631bad006@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <1159750157.22697.4.camel@localhost.localdomain> On Sun, 2006-10-01 at 19:05 -0400, Gomix.homelinux.net wrote: > I would like to help in the spanish version, pls let me know how > proceed. > The link to i18 is not working from your email. Sorry, I did not include a proper link for getting involved. I'm not an expert on doing the translations themselves, so hopefully people here can give you detailed instructions on what to do next. You can find out more here on the list or at http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Translation . You can probably also get help on the list in your native language, at https://listman.redhat.com/mailman/listinfo/fedora-trans-es . Best wishes and cheers! -- Paul W. Frields, RHCE http://paul.frields.org/ gpg fingerprint: 3DA6 A0AC 6D58 FEC4 0233 5906 ACDB C937 BD11 3717 Fedora Project Board: http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Board Fedora Docs Project: http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/DocsProject -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: signature.asc Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 189 bytes Desc: This is a digitally signed message part URL: From docs-list at fedoralinks.org Mon Oct 2 03:50:11 2006 From: docs-list at fedoralinks.org (Robert 'Bob' Jensen) Date: Sun, 01 Oct 2006 22:50:11 -0500 Subject: UPDATE: More translation time! In-Reply-To: <9366c3f50610011714l72710571m36078d913aa5544c@mail.gmail.com> References: <1159738004.16696.27.camel@localhost.localdomain> <9366c3f50610011714l72710571m36078d913aa5544c@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <45208C73.9040604@fedoralinks.org> Nikos Charonitakis wrote: > thanks for extra time. > Now we can do QA and complete Greek Release-notes. > we will use it for sure. > > For Greek team > Nikos Charonitakis > > Nikos, Thank you for the confirmation I look forward to seeing the Greek translation added. -- Robert 'Bob' Jensen * * http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/BobJensen gpg fingerprint: F9F4 7243 4243 0043 2C45 97AF E8A4 C3AE 42EB 0BC6 Fedora Docs Projects FDSCo http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/DocsProject From ccheng at redhat.com Mon Oct 2 06:47:10 2006 From: ccheng at redhat.com (Chester Cheng) Date: Mon, 02 Oct 2006 16:47:10 +1000 Subject: Release notes translations In-Reply-To: <451F1B45.6010705@fedoralinks.org> References: <451F1B45.6010705@fedoralinks.org> Message-ID: <4520B5EE.3070408@redhat.com> Hi Karsten, Do you know who can merge the release notes translation into the docs CVS? Cheers, Chester Robert 'Bob' Jensen ??: > To meet our deadline for the release notes to make it in to the ISOs > for FC6 we need to get the translations merged in to the docs CVS. > > If someone can make this happen and let me know when it is done it > would be appreciated. > From andrewm at inventa.ru Mon Oct 2 15:44:39 2006 From: andrewm at inventa.ru (Andrew Martynov) Date: Mon, 2 Oct 2006 19:44:39 +0400 Subject: UPDATE: More translation time! In-Reply-To: <1159739426.16696.40.camel@localhost.localdomain> Message-ID: Hello, Paul! I`m working now on Russian translation. I need 48 hours to complete translation and QA. Regards, Andrew Martynov Inventa -----Original Message----- From: fedora-docs-list-bounces at redhat.com [mailto:fedora-docs-list-bounces at redhat.com] On Behalf Of Paul W. Frields Sent: Monday, October 02, 2006 1:50 AM To: Fedora Documentation Project Subject: UPDATE: More translation time! Hello Translators, [ You're receiving this email personally because your email address was pulled from one of our PO files for the Fedora Core Release Notes. A copy is sent to fedora-trans-list as well. ] We understand that we piled a LOT of work on you guys for the FC6 Release Notes, with not very much time to do it. And we feel bad about it. This was entirely due to process problems, and had *nothing* to do with the great work you continue to do on a regular basis. A lot of the material entering the release notes came in on the wiki in the last week or two, meaning not only did we get the POT out late, but it was full of new strings in a lot of cases. I'd like to specially recognize Francesco Tombolini, working on the Italian translation. Francesco actually finished his entire PO file somehow, despite all the obstacles, so I wanted to single him out for some special praise! But we certainly can't expect everyone to get so much work done in such a small time. That's why we've secured MORE TIME for the release notes translation. We have a new deadline for PO delivery of: * * * 1200 UTC, Thu Oct 05 2006 * * * That's another ~3.5 days! In other words, we're trying to give you back just about every bit of time we cut by being late. You can continue to work on the existing POT in i18n.redhat.com/release-notes. We have changed nothing since it was delivered last week. WHAT WE COULD USE FROM YOU: (Other than the translation, of course!) Just a quick reply to this message. Let us know if you think you can finish the remaining work in that time. If you don't think this is a good idea, you don't have to do anything extra. But if you want some extra time, and will use it, please let us know as soon as you can! We will be discussing an improved plan for the FC7 cycle. Please join us on fedora-docs-list at redhat.com and put in your ideas if possible. cc: Core team, FDP -- Paul W. Frields, RHCE http://paul.frields.org/ gpg fingerprint: 3DA6 A0AC 6D58 FEC4 0233 5906 ACDB C937 BD11 3717 Fedora Project Board: http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Board Fedora Docs Project: http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/DocsProject From stickster at gmail.com Mon Oct 2 15:46:29 2006 From: stickster at gmail.com (Paul W. Frields) Date: Mon, 02 Oct 2006 11:46:29 -0400 Subject: release-notes/devel/po sv.po,1.4,1.5 In-Reply-To: <200610020454.k924sOCf012447@cvs-int.fedora.redhat.com> References: <200610020454.k924sOCf012447@cvs-int.fedora.redhat.com> Message-ID: <1159803989.30276.12.camel@localhost.localdomain> On Sun, 2006-10-01 at 21:54 -0700, Magnus wrote: > Author: raada > > Update of /cvs/docs/release-notes/devel/po > In directory cvs-int.fedora.redhat.com:/tmp/cvs-serv12406 > > Modified Files: > sv.po > Log Message: The Swedish translation is completely finished! Thanks, Magnus, and great job! I noticed that this was checked in directly to Docs CVS, and that may happen for some translations, rather than (or in addition to) using i18n.redhat.com. (We are happy either way, of course!) For any non-translators interested in checking the progress on translations, you can run this command: $ msgfmt --stat -o /dev/null The output looks like this for a finished translation: 795 translated messages. Obviously it's important that we don't overwrite a finished translation with an unfinished one, so it's wise to keep an eye on the fedora-docs-commits list to see these as they come in. In case of a problem, we can always revert the CVS copy if needed. Bob, our intrepid editor-in-chief, said the other day that if we got just one extra translation it will be worth the delay. So I guess now everything else is gravy! -- Paul W. Frields, RHCE http://paul.frields.org/ gpg fingerprint: 3DA6 A0AC 6D58 FEC4 0233 5906 ACDB C937 BD11 3717 Fedora Project Board: http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Board Fedora Docs Project: http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/DocsProject -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: signature.asc Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 189 bytes Desc: This is a digitally signed message part URL: From sundaram at fedoraproject.org Mon Oct 2 16:07:52 2006 From: sundaram at fedoraproject.org (Rahul Sundaram) Date: Mon, 02 Oct 2006 21:37:52 +0530 Subject: Translating release announcement Message-ID: <45213958.3030509@fedoraproject.org> Hi According to the current release schedule, Fedora Core 6 will be available publicly on October 11th. Even assuming a delay since we did a test 4 (sort of) release too, I believe we need to write up the release announcement now and send it to translators so that we can have the release announcement also translated and available simultaneously. This would boost the visibility of our translation community which has the largest volunteers in any Fedora sub project. Do we want to do this? Rahul From dimitris at glezos.com Mon Oct 2 16:27:25 2006 From: dimitris at glezos.com (Dimitrios Glezos) Date: Mon, 02 Oct 2006 17:27:25 +0100 Subject: Translating release announcement In-Reply-To: <45213958.3030509@fedoraproject.org> References: <45213958.3030509@fedoraproject.org> Message-ID: <1159806445.9738.17.camel@rpc273.cs.man.ac.uk> ???? 02-10-2006, ????? ???, ??? ??? 21:37 +0530, ?/? Rahul Sundaram ??????: > Hi > > According to the current release schedule, Fedora Core 6 will be > available publicly on October 11th. Even assuming a delay since we did a > test 4 (sort of) release too, I believe we need to write up the release > announcement now and send it to translators so that we can have the > release announcement also translated and available simultaneously. > > This would boost the visibility of our translation community which has > the largest volunteers in any Fedora sub project. Do we want to do this? +1 -- Dimitris Glezos Jabber ID: glezos at jabber.org, GPG: 0xA5A04C3B http://dimitris.glezos.com/ "He who gives up functionality for ease of use loses both and deserves neither." (Anonymous) -- From stickster at gmail.com Mon Oct 2 17:19:41 2006 From: stickster at gmail.com (Paul W. Frields) Date: Mon, 02 Oct 2006 13:19:41 -0400 Subject: UPDATE: More translation time! In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <1159809581.30276.15.camel@localhost.localdomain> On Mon, 2006-10-02 at 19:44 +0400, Andrew Martynov wrote: > Hello, Paul! > > I`m working now on Russian translation. > I need 48 hours to complete translation and QA. What great news. Having translations for the Eastern Hemisphere, like Russian, Simplified Chinese, Japanese, and Punjabi, are very important for Fedora. Thanks for your work, Andrew. -- Paul W. Frields, RHCE http://paul.frields.org/ gpg fingerprint: 3DA6 A0AC 6D58 FEC4 0233 5906 ACDB C937 BD11 3717 Fedora Project Board: http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Board Fedora Docs Project: http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/DocsProject -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: signature.asc Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 189 bytes Desc: This is a digitally signed message part URL: From dimitris at glezos.com Mon Oct 2 17:16:57 2006 From: dimitris at glezos.com (Dimitrios Glezos) Date: Mon, 02 Oct 2006 18:16:57 +0100 Subject: [Fwd: [Fedora-marketing-list] idea on explaining the mp3 question] Message-ID: <1159809417.9738.35.camel@rpc273.cs.man.ac.uk> Sam's following mail gave me an idea: Provide the user with Fedora "tips of the day" somewhere in the browser splash page (of course nothing splashy or popup). Post FC6 we can talk about how we can enhance the browser splash page, among other doc things. -dim -------- Forwarded message -------- From: Sam Folk-Williams To: Discussions on expanding the Fedora user base Subject: [Fedora-marketing-list] idea on explaining the mp3 question Date: Mon, 02 Oct 2006 12:41:16 -0400 Hi, I know this is an overly-discussed issue, but since I get so many questions on it I wanted to run this idea past everyone. A common complaint I hear is that people think Fedora is "broken" when it doesn't play MP3s. This leads to mailing list and forum traffic, negative word-of-mouth exposure, and needless confusion. I think the problem is that when you try to play an MP3 file... nothing happens at all or you get an ugly codec message -- both of these indeed seem to indicate something is broken. Why not have a pop up that explains why Fedora doesn't play MP3s and give a link to the wiki where it is explained in further detail? I could file an RFE on this.... I think it would cut down on the confusion. Has this been previously discussed? Thoughts? Sam -- Dimitris Glezos Jabber ID: glezos at jabber.org, GPG: 0xA5A04C3B http://dimitris.glezos.com/ "He who gives up functionality for ease of use loses both and deserves neither." (Anonymous) -- From stickster at gmail.com Mon Oct 2 17:48:25 2006 From: stickster at gmail.com (Paul W. Frields) Date: Mon, 02 Oct 2006 13:48:25 -0400 Subject: [Fwd: [Fedora-marketing-list] idea on explaining the mp3 question] In-Reply-To: <1159809417.9738.35.camel@rpc273.cs.man.ac.uk> References: <1159809417.9738.35.camel@rpc273.cs.man.ac.uk> Message-ID: <1159811305.30276.34.camel@localhost.localdomain> On Mon, 2006-10-02 at 18:16 +0100, Dimitrios Glezos wrote: > Sam's following mail gave me an idea: Provide the user with Fedora "tips > of the day" somewhere in the browser splash page (of course nothing > splashy or popup). > > Post FC6 we can talk about how we can enhance the browser splash page, > among other doc things. I wrote a function for this in the wiki some time ago, hit "Reload" a few times to watch it work: http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/PaulWFrields/TipTest What this is *really* telling me is that, as soon as the capability exists to host langified spaces on fedoraproject.org, we should use the browser splash to simply redirect online when possible to the fp.o front page. If people can't use *THAT* as a home page/starting up point, there is something VERY WRONG with it. (Like, blocker bug level.) This all fits in with Max's wish that our front page at fp.o be a little more eye-catching and in tune with what many other FOSS projects are doing. And it fits in with my personal viewpoint that redundantly creating so many "start here!" pages, without trying to improve and build on existing stuff, is horribly inefficient and a bad use of resources. -- Paul W. Frields, RHCE http://paul.frields.org/ gpg fingerprint: 3DA6 A0AC 6D58 FEC4 0233 5906 ACDB C937 BD11 3717 Fedora Project Board: http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Board Fedora Docs Project: http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/DocsProject -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: signature.asc Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 189 bytes Desc: This is a digitally signed message part URL: From samfw at redhat.com Mon Oct 2 18:01:20 2006 From: samfw at redhat.com (Sam Folk-Williams) Date: Mon, 02 Oct 2006 14:01:20 -0400 Subject: [Fwd: [Fedora-marketing-list] idea on explaining the mp3 question] In-Reply-To: <1159811305.30276.34.camel@localhost.localdomain> References: <1159809417.9738.35.camel@rpc273.cs.man.ac.uk> <1159811305.30276.34.camel@localhost.localdomain> Message-ID: <1159812080.24595.73.camel@localhost.localdomain> On Mon, 2006-10-02 at 13:48 -0400, Paul W. Frields wrote: > On Mon, 2006-10-02 at 18:16 +0100, Dimitrios Glezos wrote: > > Sam's following mail gave me an idea: Provide the user with Fedora "tips > > of the day" somewhere in the browser splash page (of course nothing > > splashy or popup). > > yeah this came up on the marketing list last week iirc. Paul's plug in works great.. > What this is *really* telling me is that, as soon as the capability > exists to host langified spaces on fedoraproject.org, we should use the > browser splash to simply redirect online when possible to the fp.o front > page. If people can't use *THAT* as a home page/starting up point, > there is something VERY WRONG with it. (Like, blocker bug level.) > I agree we should do this. If we improve the fp.o front page to make it have more attractive usability (and more useful info, less linkage maybe) it could be a great starting page... > And it fits in with my personal viewpoint that redundantly > creating so many "start here!" pages, without trying to improve and > build on existing stuff, is horribly inefficient and a bad use of > resources. > Not sure if I'm missing something here. Why can't we just improve what we have? How many "start here!" pages are there? > -- > fedora-docs-list mailing list > fedora-docs-list at redhat.com > To unsubscribe: > https://www.redhat.com/mailman/listinfo/fedora-docs-list -- Sam Folk-Williams, RHCE Global Support Services From dimitris at glezos.com Mon Oct 2 18:21:45 2006 From: dimitris at glezos.com (Dimitrios Glezos) Date: Mon, 02 Oct 2006 19:21:45 +0100 Subject: [Fwd: [Fedora-marketing-list] idea on explaining the mp3 question] In-Reply-To: <1159811305.30276.34.camel@localhost.localdomain> References: <1159809417.9738.35.camel@rpc273.cs.man.ac.uk> <1159811305.30276.34.camel@localhost.localdomain> Message-ID: <1159813305.16006.15.camel@rpc273.cs.man.ac.uk> ???? 02-10-2006, ????? ???, ??? ??? 13:48 -0400, ?/? Paul W. Frields ??????: > On Mon, 2006-10-02 at 18:16 +0100, Dimitrios Glezos wrote: > > Sam's following mail gave me an idea: Provide the user with Fedora "tips > > of the day" somewhere in the browser splash page (of course nothing > > splashy or popup). > > > > Post FC6 we can talk about how we can enhance the browser splash page, > > among other doc things. > > I wrote a function for this in the wiki some time ago, hit "Reload" a > few times to watch it work: > > http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/PaulWFrields/TipTest > > What this is *really* telling me is that, as soon as the capability > exists to host langified spaces on fedoraproject.org, we should use the > browser splash to simply redirect online when possible to the fp.o front > page. If people can't use *THAT* as a home page/starting up point, > there is something VERY WRONG with it. (Like, blocker bug level.) > > This all fits in with Max's wish that our front page at fp.o be a little > more eye-catching and in tune with what many other FOSS projects are > doing. And it fits in with my personal viewpoint that redundantly > creating so many "start here!" pages, without trying to improve and > build on existing stuff, is horribly inefficient and a bad use of > resources. I agree that we should fix the FP web page so that it can be more eye-catching and usable and that we should try as much as possible to have a consistent attitude about our resources and information. I'll try to submit some suggestions for wiki CSS changes and probably some content guidelines ala-wikipedia post-FC6. On the other hand, at some points there are clearly different targets and a one-size-fits-all approach, even though more maintainable, can only be *less* usable for the end user. The Fedora homepage should, for example, be an entry point for many people (users, developers, journalists) to the Fedora Project. The user's browser splash page should be an entry point for the user (one) to the use of his (own) desktop and the Internet. Another difference could be that the tips showing in the browser splash page should be tips for a smooth system operation and desktop use while tips in FP homepage could contain tips for the Fedora Project, it's groups etc. So, I see it as an aggregation, not as content duplication. This need for personal content aggregation is also shown from the customized homepages Google and other providers provide. Anyway. We can talk about it after FC6 I guess. -dim -- Dimitris Glezos Jabber ID: glezos at jabber.org, GPG: 0xA5A04C3B http://dimitris.glezos.com/ "He who gives up functionality for ease of use loses both and deserves neither." (Anonymous) -- From samfw at redhat.com Mon Oct 2 18:29:12 2006 From: samfw at redhat.com (Sam Folk-Williams) Date: Mon, 02 Oct 2006 14:29:12 -0400 Subject: [Fwd: [Fedora-marketing-list] idea on explaining the mp3 question] In-Reply-To: <1159813305.16006.15.camel@rpc273.cs.man.ac.uk> References: <1159809417.9738.35.camel@rpc273.cs.man.ac.uk> <1159811305.30276.34.camel@localhost.localdomain> <1159813305.16006.15.camel@rpc273.cs.man.ac.uk> Message-ID: <1159813752.24595.97.camel@localhost.localdomain> On Mon, 2006-10-02 at 19:21 +0100, Dimitrios Glezos wrote: > I agree that we should fix the FP web page so that it can be more > eye-catching and usable and that we should try as much as possible to > have a consistent attitude about our resources and information. I'll try > to submit some suggestions for wiki CSS changes > This sounds great. I tried to play around with it but I'm not of much use with making things look nice . > On the other hand, at some points there are clearly different targets > and a one-size-fits-all approach, even though more maintainable, can > only be *less* usable for the end user. The Fedora homepage should, for > example, be an entry point for many people (users, developers, > journalists) to the Fedora Project. The user's browser splash page > should be an entry point for the user (one) to the use of his (own) > desktop and the Internet. Another difference could be that the tips > showing in the browser splash page should be tips for a smooth system > operation and desktop use while tips in FP homepage could contain tips > for the Fedora Project, it's groups etc. > > So, I see it as an aggregation, not as content duplication. This need > for personal content aggregation is also shown from the customized > homepages Google and other providers provide. > I definitely see this side of it as well. The local homepage and the fp.o homepage could both serve unique purposes without too much duplication. But, we could/should use the same CSS/design work for both pages. From stickster at gmail.com Mon Oct 2 18:42:22 2006 From: stickster at gmail.com (Paul W. Frields) Date: Mon, 02 Oct 2006 14:42:22 -0400 Subject: [Fwd: [Fedora-marketing-list] idea on explaining the mp3 question] In-Reply-To: <1159813305.16006.15.camel@rpc273.cs.man.ac.uk> References: <1159809417.9738.35.camel@rpc273.cs.man.ac.uk> <1159811305.30276.34.camel@localhost.localdomain> <1159813305.16006.15.camel@rpc273.cs.man.ac.uk> Message-ID: <1159814542.30276.38.camel@localhost.localdomain> On Mon, 2006-10-02 at 19:21 +0100, Dimitrios Glezos wrote: > ???? 02-10-2006, ????? ???, ??? ??? 13:48 -0400, ?/? Paul W. Frields > ??????: > > On Mon, 2006-10-02 at 18:16 +0100, Dimitrios Glezos wrote: > > > Sam's following mail gave me an idea: Provide the user with Fedora "tips > > > of the day" somewhere in the browser splash page (of course nothing > > > splashy or popup). > > > > > > Post FC6 we can talk about how we can enhance the browser splash page, > > > among other doc things. > > > > I wrote a function for this in the wiki some time ago, hit "Reload" a > > few times to watch it work: > > > > http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/PaulWFrields/TipTest > > > > What this is *really* telling me is that, as soon as the capability > > exists to host langified spaces on fedoraproject.org, we should use the > > browser splash to simply redirect online when possible to the fp.o front > > page. If people can't use *THAT* as a home page/starting up point, > > there is something VERY WRONG with it. (Like, blocker bug level.) > > > > This all fits in with Max's wish that our front page at fp.o be a little > > more eye-catching and in tune with what many other FOSS projects are > > doing. And it fits in with my personal viewpoint that redundantly > > creating so many "start here!" pages, without trying to improve and > > build on existing stuff, is horribly inefficient and a bad use of > > resources. > > I agree that we should fix the FP web page so that it can be more > eye-catching and usable and that we should try as much as possible to > have a consistent attitude about our resources and information. I'll try > to submit some suggestions for wiki CSS changes and probably some > content guidelines ala-wikipedia post-FC6. > > On the other hand, at some points there are clearly different targets > and a one-size-fits-all approach, even though more maintainable, can > only be *less* usable for the end user. The Fedora homepage should, for > example, be an entry point for many people (users, developers, > journalists) to the Fedora Project. The user's browser splash page > should be an entry point for the user (one) to the use of his (own) > desktop and the Internet. Another difference could be that the tips > showing in the browser splash page should be tips for a smooth system > operation and desktop use while tips in FP homepage could contain tips > for the Fedora Project, it's groups etc. > > So, I see it as an aggregation, not as content duplication. This need > for personal content aggregation is also shown from the customized > homepages Google and other providers provide. > > Anyway. We can talk about it after FC6 I guess. There are other entry points I was talking about, including the per-subproject points. The browser splash itself is still a necessary piece, and I like having it. I would like to see it tie in with a more useful entry point on the net that offers all that and a bag of chips. Giving the user a simple but rich set of choices for what information they'd like to get, and making it available at their home page, would be ideal. (Yes, many technologies exist to get us there, we should use them!) -- Paul W. Frields, RHCE http://paul.frields.org/ gpg fingerprint: 3DA6 A0AC 6D58 FEC4 0233 5906 ACDB C937 BD11 3717 Fedora Project Board: http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Board Fedora Docs Project: http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/DocsProject -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: signature.asc Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 189 bytes Desc: This is a digitally signed message part URL: From kwade at redhat.com Mon Oct 2 21:36:49 2006 From: kwade at redhat.com (Karsten Wade) Date: Mon, 02 Oct 2006 14:36:49 -0700 Subject: Guido Caruso: Sponsor founded In-Reply-To: <20060921141245.de24042903101a4f77687a9d31d0690f.2bc45d4163.wbe@email.secureserver.net> References: <20060921141245.de24042903101a4f77687a9d31d0690f.2bc45d4163.wbe@email.secureserver.net> Message-ID: <1159825009.19689.256.camel@erato.phig.org> On Thu, 2006-09-21 at 14:12 -0700, g.caruso at fedoraserver.org wrote: > >Email back to this list when you have a sponsor and we can quickly > >approve your cvsdocs membership. > > Hi! I have my sponsor: > Francesco Tombolini > Guido.- Sorry, I asked you to do all that, and it looks like your request still sat there for a few weeks. :( I just approved your request, many apologies about the lateness. - Karsten -- Karsten Wade, RHCE, 108 Editor ^ Fedora Documentation Project Sr. Developer Relations Mgr. | fedoraproject.org/wiki/DocsProject quaid.108.redhat.com | gpg key: AD0E0C41 ////////////////////////////////// \\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\ -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: signature.asc Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 189 bytes Desc: This is a digitally signed message part URL: From kwade at redhat.com Mon Oct 2 21:38:08 2006 From: kwade at redhat.com (Karsten Wade) Date: Mon, 02 Oct 2006 14:38:08 -0700 Subject: Release notes translations In-Reply-To: <4520B5EE.3070408@redhat.com> References: <451F1B45.6010705@fedoralinks.org> <4520B5EE.3070408@redhat.com> Message-ID: <1159825089.19689.259.camel@erato.phig.org> On Mon, 2006-10-02 at 16:47 +1000, Chester Cheng wrote: > Hi Karsten, > > Do you know who can merge the release notes translation into the docs CVS? AFAIK, you (snowlet) and many other translators have access. You need to check in the updated PO files into: cvs.fedoraproject.org:/cvs/docs/release-notes/devel/po/ If you run into problems we can't resolve, you can put them all in a tarball and email it to me. - Karsten -- Karsten Wade, RHCE, 108 Editor ^ Fedora Documentation Project Sr. Developer Relations Mgr. | fedoraproject.org/wiki/DocsProject quaid.108.redhat.com | gpg key: AD0E0C41 ////////////////////////////////// \\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\ -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: signature.asc Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 189 bytes Desc: This is a digitally signed message part URL: From kwade at redhat.com Mon Oct 2 21:41:09 2006 From: kwade at redhat.com (Karsten Wade) Date: Mon, 02 Oct 2006 14:41:09 -0700 Subject: Problem in f.r.c/docs/fedora-install-guide-en/fc5 In-Reply-To: <200609302226.43289.nman64@n-man.com> References: <200609302226.43289.nman64@n-man.com> Message-ID: <1159825270.19689.263.camel@erato.phig.org> On Sat, 2006-09-30 at 22:26 -0500, Patrick W. Barnes wrote: > I'm not sure if someone has been doing work on the Docs infrastructure, but > something is a little broken. Pages of the Installation Guide for FC5 are > damaged. They are being rendered with an HTML header instead of using the > PHP include. This causes breakage when PHP functions are called for the > footer of the pages. FYI, since it appears these were fixed ... This has happened for these three HTML pages since the first build and post of the Installation Guide last year. There are some bugs in the Python script docbookhtml2php output. We've not fixed it and continue to have to remember (or most likely ... forget) to add the headers manually before committing the changed files. You know, Plone, upcoming, why fix it, etc. :) - Karsten > An example of the error output: > > PHP Fatal error: Call to a member function on a non-object > in /scratch/fedorascratch/LIVE-2006-09-30-20.45/tmp/html/docs/fedora-install-guide-en/fc5/ch-rootpassword.php > on line 50 > PHP Fatal error: Call to a member function on a non-object > in /scratch/fedorascratch/LIVE-2006-09-30-20.45/tmp/html/docs/fedora-install-guide-en/fc5/ch-timezone.php > on line 25 > PHP Fatal error: Call to a member function on a non-object > in /scratch/fedorascratch/LIVE-2006-09-30-20.45/tmp/html/docs/fedora-install-guide-en/fc5/sn-utc.php > on line 22 > > > Tickets are being automatically created in the Fedora Ticket System every > half-hour. Whomever is working on the Docs infrastructure or the > Installation Guide should check on this. If you need a hand, ping me > off-list. > > -- > Patrick "The N-Man" Barnes > nman64 at n-man.com > > http://www.n-man.com/ > > LinkedIn: > http://www.linkedin.com/in/nman64 > > Have I been helpful? Rate my assistance! > http://rate.affero.net/nman64/ > -- > fedora-docs-list mailing list > fedora-docs-list at redhat.com > To unsubscribe: > https://www.redhat.com/mailman/listinfo/fedora-docs-list -- Karsten Wade, RHCE, 108 Editor ^ Fedora Documentation Project Sr. Developer Relations Mgr. | fedoraproject.org/wiki/DocsProject quaid.108.redhat.com | gpg key: AD0E0C41 ////////////////////////////////// \\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\ -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: signature.asc Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 189 bytes Desc: This is a digitally signed message part URL: From g.caruso at fedoraserver.org Mon Oct 2 22:14:31 2006 From: g.caruso at fedoraserver.org (g.caruso at fedoraserver.org) Date: Mon, 02 Oct 2006 15:14:31 -0700 Subject: fedora-install-guide Message-ID: <20061002151431.de24042903101a4f77687a9d31d0690f.1843d51cd9.wbe@email.secureserver.net> Hi at all. I am translating fedora-install-guide into italian language. What's about its FC6 version? Thanks in advance. Guido Caruso From stickster at gmail.com Tue Oct 3 00:09:53 2006 From: stickster at gmail.com (Paul W. Frields) Date: Mon, 02 Oct 2006 20:09:53 -0400 Subject: fedora-install-guide In-Reply-To: <20061002151431.de24042903101a4f77687a9d31d0690f.1843d51cd9.wbe@email.secureserver.net> References: <20061002151431.de24042903101a4f77687a9d31d0690f.1843d51cd9.wbe@email.secureserver.net> Message-ID: <1159834193.3833.2.camel@localhost.localdomain> On Mon, 2006-10-02 at 15:14 -0700, g.caruso at fedoraserver.org wrote: > Hi at all. > I am translating fedora-install-guide into italian language. What's > about its FC6 version? > Thanks in advance. > Guido Caruso Ah, you caught me. I was supposed to send this out a while ago and with all the release-notes work and brouhaha, it slipped a bit. However, this is not necessarily a problem since the slippage allowed me to get some updated material into it. I will let the Trans leadership know it is ready if they want to pull in the updated POT/PO files on i18n.redhat.com. -- Paul W. Frields, RHCE http://paul.frields.org/ gpg fingerprint: 3DA6 A0AC 6D58 FEC4 0233 5906 ACDB C937 BD11 3717 Fedora Project Board: http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Board Fedora Docs Project: http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/DocsProject -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: signature.asc Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 189 bytes Desc: This is a digitally signed message part URL: From stickster at gmail.com Tue Oct 3 00:11:52 2006 From: stickster at gmail.com (Paul W. Frields) Date: Mon, 02 Oct 2006 20:11:52 -0400 Subject: Problem in f.r.c/docs/fedora-install-guide-en/fc5 In-Reply-To: <1159825270.19689.263.camel@erato.phig.org> References: <200609302226.43289.nman64@n-man.com> <1159825270.19689.263.camel@erato.phig.org> Message-ID: <1159834312.3833.5.camel@localhost.localdomain> On Mon, 2006-10-02 at 14:41 -0700, Karsten Wade wrote: > On Sat, 2006-09-30 at 22:26 -0500, Patrick W. Barnes wrote: > > I'm not sure if someone has been doing work on the Docs infrastructure, but > > something is a little broken. Pages of the Installation Guide for FC5 are > > damaged. They are being rendered with an HTML header instead of using the > > PHP include. This causes breakage when PHP functions are called for the > > footer of the pages. > > FYI, since it appears these were fixed ... > > This has happened for these three HTML pages since the first build and > post of the Installation Guide last year. There are some bugs in the > Python script docbookhtml2php output. We've not fixed it and continue > to have to remember (or most likely ... forget) to add the headers > manually before committing the changed files. You know, Plone, > upcoming, why fix it, etc. :) Yup. I am learning some Python now and maybe I can try to figure out why this isn't working for these particular files. A good prosecutor would note that this problem proves I didn't diligently check all the pages on my local sandbox before committing, so mea culpa. -- Paul W. Frields, RHCE http://paul.frields.org/ gpg fingerprint: 3DA6 A0AC 6D58 FEC4 0233 5906 ACDB C937 BD11 3717 Fedora Project Board: http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Board Fedora Docs Project: http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/DocsProject -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: signature.asc Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 189 bytes Desc: This is a digitally signed message part URL: From apbrar at gmail.com Sun Oct 1 05:37:06 2006 From: apbrar at gmail.com (A S Alam) Date: Sun, 1 Oct 2006 11:07:06 +0530 Subject: Release notes translations In-Reply-To: <451F1B45.6010705@fedoralinks.org> References: <451F1B45.6010705@fedoralinks.org> Message-ID: <200610011107.06673.apbrar@gmail.com> ????? 01 ?????? 2006 07:05 ???, Robert 'Bob' Jensen ?? ?????: > To meet our deadline for the release notes to make it in to the ISOs for > FC6 we need to get the translations merged in to the docs CVS. > > If someone can make this happen and let me know when it is done it would > be appreciated. I commit back to docs-css, please check thanks -- A S Alam timezone: GMT+5:30 join us at #fedora-l10n (freenode) "Either find a way or make one" From fedoratrans at gmail.com Tue Oct 3 05:30:15 2006 From: fedoratrans at gmail.com (Magnus Larsson) Date: Tue, 3 Oct 2006 01:30:15 -0400 Subject: release-notes/devel/po sv.po,1.4,1.5 In-Reply-To: <1159803989.30276.12.camel@localhost.localdomain> References: <200610020454.k924sOCf012447@cvs-int.fedora.redhat.com> <1159803989.30276.12.camel@localhost.localdomain> Message-ID: I translate everything on i8n and when I think it is finished I copy it to docs CVS and check it in. No translations work under docs CVS... It would be better if the docs Makefile used the po files from i8n CVS directly, rather than having duplicate copies of the same file in 2 CVSes. /Magnus On 10/2/06, Paul W. Frields wrote: > > On Sun, 2006-10-01 at 21:54 -0700, Magnus wrote: > > Author: raada > > > > Update of /cvs/docs/release-notes/devel/po > > In directory cvs-int.fedora.redhat.com:/tmp/cvs-serv12406 > > > > Modified Files: > > sv.po > > Log Message: > > The Swedish translation is completely finished! Thanks, Magnus, and > great job! I noticed that this was checked in directly to Docs CVS, and > that may happen for some translations, rather than (or in addition to) > using i18n.redhat.com. (We are happy either way, of course!) For any > non-translators interested in checking the progress on translations, you > can run this command: > > $ msgfmt --stat -o /dev/null > > The output looks like this for a finished translation: > > 795 translated messages. > > > Obviously it's important that we don't overwrite a finished > translation with an unfinished one, so it's wise to keep an eye on the > fedora-docs-commits list to see these as they come in. In case of a > problem, we can always revert the CVS copy if needed. > Bob, our intrepid editor-in-chief, said the other day that if we got > just one extra translation it will be worth the delay. So I guess now > everything else is gravy! > > > -- > Paul W. Frields, RHCE http://paul.frields.org/ > gpg fingerprint: 3DA6 A0AC 6D58 FEC4 0233 5906 ACDB C937 BD11 3717 > Fedora Project Board: http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Board > Fedora Docs Project: http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/DocsProject > > > -- > fedora-docs-list mailing list > fedora-docs-list at redhat.com > To unsubscribe: > https://www.redhat.com/mailman/listinfo/fedora-docs-list > > > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From kwade at redhat.com Tue Oct 3 07:18:14 2006 From: kwade at redhat.com (Karsten Wade) Date: Tue, 03 Oct 2006 00:18:14 -0700 Subject: release-notes/devel/po sv.po,1.4,1.5 In-Reply-To: References: <200610020454.k924sOCf012447@cvs-int.fedora.redhat.com> <1159803989.30276.12.camel@localhost.localdomain> Message-ID: <1159859894.4193.29.camel@erato.phig.org> On Tue, 2006-10-03 at 01:30 -0400, Magnus Larsson wrote: > I translate everything on i8n and when I think it is finished I copy > it to docs CVS and check it in. No translations work under docs CVS... > It would be better if the docs Makefile used the po files from i8n CVS > directly, rather than having duplicate copies of the same file in 2 > CVSes. This is not by design or desire. i18n.r.c is the _old_ CVS, and another team is in charge of moving the CVS and the Web app to cvs.fedoraproject.org. Meanwhile, we use this manual method to get the POT file to as many translators as possible. - Karsten -- Karsten Wade, RHCE, 108 Editor ^ Fedora Documentation Project Sr. Developer Relations Mgr. | fedoraproject.org/wiki/DocsProject quaid.108.redhat.com | gpg key: AD0E0C41 ////////////////////////////////// \\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\ -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: signature.asc Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 189 bytes Desc: This is a digitally signed message part URL: From jncp at netcabo.pt Tue Oct 3 15:36:47 2006 From: jncp at netcabo.pt (=?iso-8859-15?q?Jos=E9_Nuno_Coelho_Sanarra_Pires?=) Date: Tue, 3 Oct 2006 16:36:47 +0100 Subject: UPDATE: More translation time! In-Reply-To: <1159739426.16696.40.camel@localhost.localdomain> References: <1159739426.16696.40.camel@localhost.localdomain> Message-ID: <200610031636.55132.jncp@netcabo.pt> Em Domingo, 1 de Outubro de 2006 22:50, o Paul W. Frields escreveu: Hi! On behalf of the European Portuguese team, our work here is done. The FC6 Installation Guide and Release Notes are now fully translated and spellchecked. As my co-editor (Pedro Morais - PedroMorais on Wiki) is on vacations, he won't be able to approve any of the Portuguese docs in the next few weeks. What I'm asking here is if someone (from the PT-BR team, for example) is available to validate and approve the PT-PT translations for this release. Lots of translations have been done for the Docs Project, they're all stated on the Publish Queue, on the Wiki, but almost none of them have been published yet and it's too bad if they can't manage to be present on FC6 release. Best regards -- Jos? Nuno Coelho Pires Development Engineer Unidade de Sistemas de Informa??o INESC-INOV Telem?vel: 96 630 61 13 E-Mail: jose.pires at inov.pt -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 189 bytes Desc: not available URL: From poelstra at redhat.com Tue Oct 3 15:43:53 2006 From: poelstra at redhat.com (John Poelstra) Date: Tue, 03 Oct 2006 11:43:53 -0400 Subject: [Fwd: [Fedora-marketing-list] idea on explaining the mp3 question] In-Reply-To: <1159812080.24595.73.camel@localhost.localdomain> References: <1159809417.9738.35.camel@rpc273.cs.man.ac.uk> <1159811305.30276.34.camel@localhost.localdomain> <1159812080.24595.73.camel@localhost.localdomain> Message-ID: <45228539.1080909@redhat.com> Sam Folk-Williams said the following on 10/02/2006 02:01 PM: > On Mon, 2006-10-02 at 13:48 -0400, Paul W. Frields wrote: >> On Mon, 2006-10-02 at 18:16 +0100, Dimitrios Glezos wrote: >>> Sam's following mail gave me an idea: Provide the user with Fedora "tips >>> of the day" somewhere in the browser splash page (of course nothing >>> splashy or popup). >>> > yeah this came up on the marketing list last week iirc. Paul's plug in > works great.. > >> What this is *really* telling me is that, as soon as the capability >> exists to host langified spaces on fedoraproject.org, we should use the >> browser splash to simply redirect online when possible to the fp.o front >> page. If people can't use *THAT* as a home page/starting up point, >> there is something VERY WRONG with it. (Like, blocker bug level.) >> > I agree we should do this. If we improve the fp.o front page to make it > have more attractive usability (and more useful info, less linkage > maybe) it could be a great starting page... > Hooray for reducing some of the information and overabundance of links at http://fedoraproject.org It looks better than a few days ago. This page: http://www.ubuntu.com/community does a great job of simplicity, friendly, and intuitive navigation :) Others have commented on the "darkness" of the Fedora theme... comparing the two pages I agree, while understanding some of this is simply personal taste. In terms of being part of the solution, I tried to sign up for a Fedora account a few weeks ago, but got lost in the morass of different registration forms, cross-linked pages, accounts, and requirements. I plan to give it another shot when I get some time :) John From g.caruso at fedoraserver.org Tue Oct 3 16:10:29 2006 From: g.caruso at fedoraserver.org (g.caruso at fedoraserver.org) Date: Tue, 03 Oct 2006 09:10:29 -0700 Subject: Guido Caruso: Sponsor found (but CVS says...) Message-ID: <20061003091029.de24042903101a4f77687a9d31d0690f.dbe893adc6.wbe@email.secureserver.net> Hi. My cvsdocs membership has been approved. When I try to get the module from the server I get these messages: [guido xe3 ~]$ export CVS_RSH=ssh [guido xe3 ~]$ export CVSROOT=:ext:gcaruso i18n redhat com:/usr/local/CVS [guido xe3 ~]$ cvs -z9 co translate/ Connection closed by 66.187.233.241 cvs [checkout aborted]: end of file from server (consult above messages if any) Why? I cannot work in this way!! Guido.- From stickster at gmail.com Tue Oct 3 16:46:41 2006 From: stickster at gmail.com (Paul W. Frields) Date: Tue, 03 Oct 2006 12:46:41 -0400 Subject: Guido Caruso: Sponsor found (but CVS says...) In-Reply-To: <20061003091029.de24042903101a4f77687a9d31d0690f.dbe893adc6.wbe@email.secureserver.net> References: <20061003091029.de24042903101a4f77687a9d31d0690f.dbe893adc6.wbe@email.secureserver.net> Message-ID: <1159894001.8728.6.camel@localhost.localdomain> On Tue, 2006-10-03 at 09:10 -0700, g.caruso at fedoraserver.org wrote: > Hi. > My cvsdocs membership has been approved. > When I try to get the module from the server I get these messages: > [guido xe3 ~]$ export CVS_RSH=ssh > [guido xe3 ~]$ export > CVSROOT=:ext:gcaruso i18n redhat com:/usr/local/CVS > [guido xe3 ~]$ cvs -z9 co translate/ > Connection closed by 66.187.233.241 > cvs [checkout aborted]: end of file from server (consult above messages > if any) > Why? I cannot work in this way!! > Guido.- The "cvsdocs" group controls access only to the Docs CVS: http://cvs.fedoraproject.org/docs.shtml I think there is a different group for access to i18n.redhat.com CVS. We agree that this is confusing, and a problem. We have been asking the responsible parties for some time to help craft a new system, but it's still pending. -- Paul W. Frields, RHCE http://paul.frields.org/ gpg fingerprint: 3DA6 A0AC 6D58 FEC4 0233 5906 ACDB C937 BD11 3717 Fedora Project Board: http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Board Fedora Docs Project: http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/DocsProject -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: signature.asc Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 189 bytes Desc: This is a digitally signed message part URL: From mspevack at redhat.com Tue Oct 3 18:04:43 2006 From: mspevack at redhat.com (Max Spevack) Date: Tue, 3 Oct 2006 14:04:43 -0400 (EDT) Subject: Firefox splash page tracker In-Reply-To: <1159644323.19689.126.camel@erato.phig.org> References: <1159474492.13299.139.camel@erato.phig.org> <451C8606.8070606@glezos.com> <1159644323.19689.126.camel@erato.phig.org> Message-ID: On Sat, 30 Sep 2006, Karsten Wade wrote: > Dimitris, thanks for your well written response. I tend to agree with > your analysis. The intentions of getting a rough count of desktop users > are obviously the best, but the timing is too short to work out all the > ramifications (social, technological, etc.). In American football, this > is where we punt, meaning to kick the idea to the next release. > > If we had just a bit more time, we could have a button to click to get > us some rough numbers, but timing is just too close. Here's the thing: We have no useful metris about Fedora *at all*. Just some bittorrent download numbers, which are not very complete. We have no clue about desktop usage. We have no clue about server usage. We have no clue about fc5, fc4, fc6, etc. usage. We basically don't know *anything*. And how on earth can we effectively make a case for resources, money, engineers, etc. if we don't have any way to *prove* the manner in which people are using our software. It would be wonderful to do this "right" for FC7. But it would be a HUGE mistake to allow another 6 months to go buy with no metrics because we're afraid of having some people feel like they're being tracked. Doing it secretly is not an option -- that's the sort of thing that will get people up in arms. Firstboot -- a great idea. A survey -- a great idea. A simple URL that lets us know there is a desktop user somewhere out the on the internets? A decent idea that we can *just make happen*. And if people want to flame it, they can flame me directly and I'll forward this email to fedora-announce-list. I honestly don't understand what the big deal is. It's no more or less information than you give out *every time* you visit *any website*. I'm tired of being embarassed when people ask me things like "so, how many users ya got?" and I can't answer. --Max -- Max Spevack + http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/MaxSpevack + gpg key -- http://spevack.org/max.asc + fingerprint -- CD52 5E72 369B B00D 9E9A 773E 2FDB CB46 5A17 CF21 From samfw at redhat.com Tue Oct 3 18:32:15 2006 From: samfw at redhat.com (Sam Folk-Williams) Date: Tue, 03 Oct 2006 14:32:15 -0400 Subject: Firefox splash page tracker In-Reply-To: References: <1159474492.13299.139.camel@erato.phig.org> <451C8606.8070606@glezos.com> <1159644323.19689.126.camel@erato.phig.org> Message-ID: <1159900336.18733.71.camel@localhost.localdomain> On Tue, 2006-10-03 at 14:04 -0400, Max Spevack wrote: > > We have no useful metris about Fedora *at all*. Just some bittorrent > download numbers, which are not very complete. > > We have no clue about desktop usage. We have no clue about server usage. > We have no clue about fc5, fc4, fc6, etc. usage. > > We basically don't know *anything*. And how on earth can we effectively > make a case for resources, money, engineers, etc. if we don't have any way > to *prove* the manner in which people are using our software. > I guess my question is, how could this have happened? How could nothing have been gathered in all this time? Also, why did this just now become an urgent thing? Given that the answers to those questions wont help with the present problem... What about getting things like number of people registered with the wiki/on the mailing lists/registered to community sites like fedora forum/attending fedora conferences, etc? > It would be wonderful to do this "right" for FC7. But it would be a HUGE > mistake to allow another 6 months to go buy with no metrics because we're > afraid of having some people feel like they're being tracked. > Again -- why hasn't this been raised sooner? > Doing it secretly is not an option -- that's the sort of thing that will > get people up in arms. > > Firstboot -- a great idea. > A survey -- a great idea. > Right so this should be on track for FC7 - any time really. > A simple URL that lets us know there is a desktop user somewhere out the > on the internets? A decent idea that we can *just make happen*. And if > people want to flame it, they can flame me directly and I'll forward this > email to fedora-announce-list. > > I honestly don't understand what the big deal is. It's no more or less > information than you give out *every time* you visit *any website*. > I don't personally think it's a big deal. I think my resistance is mostly speculation about how people *might* react, which is nothing anything should be based on. But, can you really count on this data for anything useful? I mean, I think a lot of people install several distributions just to check them out when they are first released, for example, but may not have any intention of actually /using/ it long term. Does that count as a user? > I'm tired of being embarassed when people ask me things like "so, how many > users ya got?" and I can't answer. > I agree - it's silly that we can't answer that question. Why don't we start to prepare some kind of survey of people who are registered at various fedora-related sites now? I don't know that it has to correspond with a release. On the other hand, if you really think this idea will give you data you can trust and urgently need, it might well be worth it to go ahead. I just personally think this feels a bit cobbled together. Just a couple cents here for discussion. > --Max > > -- > Max Spevack > + http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/MaxSpevack > + gpg key -- http://spevack.org/max.asc > + fingerprint -- CD52 5E72 369B B00D 9E9A 773E 2FDB CB46 5A17 CF21 > -- Sam Folk-Williams, RHCE Global Support Services From gdk at redhat.com Tue Oct 3 18:52:08 2006 From: gdk at redhat.com (Greg DeKoenigsberg) Date: Tue, 3 Oct 2006 14:52:08 -0400 (EDT) Subject: Firefox splash page tracker In-Reply-To: <1159900336.18733.71.camel@localhost.localdomain> References: <1159474492.13299.139.camel@erato.phig.org> <451C8606.8070606@glezos.com> <1159644323.19689.126.camel@erato.phig.org> <1159900336.18733.71.camel@localhost.localdomain> Message-ID: On Tue, 3 Oct 2006, Sam Folk-Williams wrote: > I guess my question is, how could this have happened? How could nothing > have been gathered in all this time? Also, why did this just now become > an urgent thing? Just because it's a new problem to you doesn't mean that it's a new problem. It just means that it's a new problem to you. > Right so this should be on track for FC7 - any time really. So great. We've got a great idea for FC7. I think it'll be great to write a firstboot extension that allows us to collect all kinds of spiffy data. Maybe we can get some community resources to help make it happen -- because we can't necessarily count on internal dedicated resources. It's worth pointing out at this point that we also had a great idea for FC4 *and* FC5 -- redirecting yum requests through bouncer and collecting stats that way. But we didn't execute. Why? Because it wasn't judged to be important enough to expend resources to *make* it happen. It's all about execution. We do what we have with what we've got. Ideas and promises are great, but they don't feed the bulldog. And when we ask for MORE FUNDING TO MAKE FEDORA BETTER, and the Powers That Be ask, "well, how many Fedora users do you have?" and we have NO ANSWER, that is BAD FOR FEDORA. BAAAAAAAD. AND I'M SORRY FOR SHOUTING... but I guess I just can't help it. It's frustrating. I'll go stand in the corner now and suck my thumb until I feel better. > But, can you really count on this data for anything useful? I mean, I > think a lot of people install several distributions just to check them > out when they are first released, for example, but may not have any > intention of actually /using/ it long term. Does that count as a user? It's certainly much better than what we have right now, which is *literally nothing at all*. How many times do we have to reiterate this point? > Why don't we start to prepare some kind of survey of people who are > registered at various fedora-related sites now? I don't know that it has > to correspond with a release. I guess I don't understand what makes you think that survey data will be anywhere near as accurate. I mean, here's some simple back-of-the-envelope calculations: How many people who install Fedora actually join a Fedora mailing list, or go to a Fedora website? 20 percent? 5 percent? On the other hand: how many Fedora Desktop users open a browser? 75 percent? 90 percent? > On the other hand, if you really think this idea will give you data you > can trust and urgently need, it might well be worth it to go ahead. I > just personally think this feels a bit cobbled together. We had great, large plans, as early as FC4. Grand plans. Beautiful plans. What happened? We did not execute. Therefore, we dropped back to the *simplest possible plan* that would give us *any data at all*. --g ------------------------------------------------------------- Greg DeKoenigsberg || Fedora Project || fedoraproject.org Be an Ambassador || http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Ambassadors ------------------------------------------------------------- From g.caruso at fedoraserver.org Tue Oct 3 19:10:01 2006 From: g.caruso at fedoraserver.org (g.caruso at fedoraserver.org) Date: Tue, 03 Oct 2006 12:10:01 -0700 Subject: Guido Caruso: Sponsor found (but CVS says...) Message-ID: <20061003121001.de24042903101a4f77687a9d31d0690f.0b56423527.wbe@email.secureserver.net> > The "cvsdocs" group controls access only to the Docs CVS > I think there is a different group for access to i18n.redhat.com CVS. Thanks, Paul, for your answer. But you can imagine my confusion; translation-quick-start-guide says: "Once you have successfully completed the CLA, return to the account system and select Edit Your Account. Enter the password you received by email and select Add new membership at the bottom of the page. In the field Groupname, enter cvsdocs and select Add. This action requests access to the CVS repository where the documentation is stored. [Important] CVS Access is Not Automatic When you fill out this form, you are not automatically granted write access to the CVS repository. You may need sponsorship from one of the Fedora Documentation Project managers to get this access." Best regards, Guido.- From samfw at redhat.com Tue Oct 3 20:16:19 2006 From: samfw at redhat.com (Sam Folk-Williams) Date: Tue, 03 Oct 2006 16:16:19 -0400 Subject: Firefox splash page tracker In-Reply-To: References: <1159474492.13299.139.camel@erato.phig.org> <451C8606.8070606@glezos.com> <1159644323.19689.126.camel@erato.phig.org> <1159900336.18733.71.camel@localhost.localdomain> Message-ID: <1159906579.2757.9.camel@samfw.rdu.redhat.com> On Tue, 2006-10-03 at 14:52 -0400, Greg DeKoenigsberg wrote: > On Tue, 3 Oct 2006, Sam Folk-Williams wrote: > > > I guess my question is, how could this have happened? How could nothing > > have been gathered in all this time? Also, why did this just now become > > an urgent thing? > > Just because it's a new problem to you doesn't mean that it's a new > problem. It just means that it's a new problem to you. > Point taken. The reason for my question is that it came to the list as a last minute thing. > > It's worth pointing out at this point that we also had a great idea for > FC4 *and* FC5 -- redirecting yum requests through bouncer and collecting > stats that way. But we didn't execute. Why? Because it wasn't judged to > be important enough to expend resources to *make* it happen. > This is definitely worth pointing out... > It's all about execution. We do what we have with what we've got. Ideas > and promises are great, but they don't feed the bulldog. And when we ask > for MORE FUNDING TO MAKE FEDORA BETTER, and the Powers That Be ask, "well, > how many Fedora users do you have?" and we have NO ANSWER, that is BAD FOR > FEDORA. BAAAAAAAD. > Understood. > > It's certainly much better than what we have right now, which is > *literally nothing at all*. How many times do we have to reiterate this > point? > I get it. I think there's value to looking at things like traffic to fp.o, registered users on fedoraforums, etc. But I should have taken into account that you have already looked into all that. > > Why don't we start to prepare some kind of survey of people who are > > registered at various fedora-related sites now? I don't know that it has > > to correspond with a release. > > I guess I don't understand what makes you think that survey data will be > anywhere near as accurate. > I think it's generally accepted that surveys are a good and useful tool. > I mean, here's some simple back-of-the-envelope calculations: > > How many people who install Fedora actually join a Fedora mailing list, or > go to a Fedora website? 20 percent? 5 percent? On the other hand: how > many Fedora Desktop users open a browser? 75 percent? 90 percent? > > > On the other hand, if you really think this idea will give you data you > > can trust and urgently need, it might well be worth it to go ahead. I > > just personally think this feels a bit cobbled together. > > We had great, large plans, as early as FC4. Grand plans. Beautiful > plans. What happened? We did not execute. > Ok, with that in mind... > Therefore, we dropped back to the *simplest possible plan* that would give > us *any data at all*. > I'd say go for it. You have definitely showed me that this was not a last minute thing, which is the impression that I had. Given everything that has happened it sounds to me like if you don't do this nothing will ever happen. Which means, DO IT! Thanks for elaborating. Sam > --g > > ------------------------------------------------------------- > Greg DeKoenigsberg || Fedora Project || fedoraproject.org > Be an Ambassador || http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Ambassadors > ------------------------------------------------------------- > > -- Sam Folk-Williams, RHCE Global Support Services From sundaram at fedoraproject.org Tue Oct 3 23:02:49 2006 From: sundaram at fedoraproject.org (Rahul Sundaram) Date: Wed, 04 Oct 2006 04:32:49 +0530 Subject: OSDL DTL Tech Board: Documentation Framework (Tue, Oct 17)] Message-ID: <4522EC19.9060308@fedoraproject.org> Hi Might be something of interest here. Rahul -------------- next part -------------- An embedded message was scrubbed... From: "Bastian, Waldo" Subject: [discuss] FW: [dtl_tech_board] OSDL DTL Tech Board: Documentation Framework (Tue, Oct 17) Date: Tue, 3 Oct 2006 15:56:04 -0700 Size: 5410 URL: From kwade at redhat.com Wed Oct 4 01:19:31 2006 From: kwade at redhat.com (Karsten Wade) Date: Tue, 03 Oct 2006 18:19:31 -0700 Subject: updates from FDSCo meeting 03-Oct-2006 Message-ID: <1159924771.4193.149.camel@erato.phig.org> Highlights: * Tommy is going to research migrating the WUI for i18n.r.c, as well as consult/help on the CVS migration involved * Hugo is going to lead the task to get Fedora Documentation and Fedora Translation processes, technology, and communities working together correctly before FC7 test1. These projects are interdependent. :) Full task schedule is at: http://www.fedoraproject.org/wiki/DocsProject/SteeringCommittee/TaskSchedule - Karsten -- Karsten Wade, RHCE, 108 Editor ^ Fedora Documentation Project Sr. Developer Relations Mgr. | fedoraproject.org/wiki/DocsProject quaid.108.redhat.com | gpg key: AD0E0C41 ////////////////////////////////// \\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\ -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: signature.asc Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 189 bytes Desc: This is a digitally signed message part URL: From hugo at devin.com.br Wed Oct 4 02:25:39 2006 From: hugo at devin.com.br (Hugo Cisneiros) Date: Tue, 3 Oct 2006 23:25:39 -0300 Subject: Release notes bug: test3 string Message-ID: <200610032325.39841.hugo@devin.com.br> Hi, I have found this on the release-notes: #: en_US/Kernel.xml:186(para) msgid "There is no support for Xen or kdump for the PowerPC architecture in Fedora Core 6 test3. 32-bit PowerPC does still have a separate SMP kernel." msgstr "" It appears that it's referring to the test3 release instead of the final one :-) -- []'s Eitch http://www.devin.com.br/eitch/ "Talk is cheap. Show me the code." - Linus Torvalds From kwade at redhat.com Wed Oct 4 04:18:46 2006 From: kwade at redhat.com (Karsten Wade) Date: Tue, 03 Oct 2006 21:18:46 -0700 Subject: Release notes bug: test3 string In-Reply-To: <200610032325.39841.hugo@devin.com.br> References: <200610032325.39841.hugo@devin.com.br> Message-ID: <1159935526.4193.167.camel@erato.phig.org> On Tue, 2006-10-03 at 23:25 -0300, Hugo Cisneiros wrote: > Hi, > > I have found this on the release-notes: > > #: en_US/Kernel.xml:186(para) > msgid "There is no support for Xen or kdump for the PowerPC architecture in > Fedora Core 6 test3. 32-bit PowerPC does still have a separate SMP kernel." > msgstr "" > > It appears that it's referring to the test3 release instead of the final > one :-) Should we update the POT file? Is this something we can fix later? That is, do people translated 'test3'? - Karsten -- Karsten Wade, RHCE, 108 Editor ^ Fedora Documentation Project Sr. Developer Relations Mgr. | fedoraproject.org/wiki/DocsProject quaid.108.redhat.com | gpg key: AD0E0C41 ////////////////////////////////// \\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\ -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: signature.asc Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 189 bytes Desc: This is a digitally signed message part URL: From hugo at devin.com.br Wed Oct 4 08:59:45 2006 From: hugo at devin.com.br (Hugo Cisneiros) Date: Wed, 4 Oct 2006 05:59:45 -0300 Subject: Brazilian Portuguese Translation for RELEASE NOTES (FC6) Message-ID: <200610040559.45104.hugo@devin.com.br> Hi guys, Just to inform you that the release notes for FC6 is now translated to Brazilian Portuguese and is commited to the CVS (both i18n and fedora-docs). In this last day, it will be only revision. The .po file is on the CVS, and a built draft is available in the following URL: http://www.devin.com.br/eitch/fedora/RELEASE-NOTES-pt_BR/ When the revision is completed, I'll inform again. Oh, and sorry for being such a lazy ass this time :-) Cheers, -- []'s Eitch http://www.devin.com.br/eitch/ "Talk is cheap. Show me the code." - Linus Torvalds From kwade at redhat.com Wed Oct 4 18:52:36 2006 From: kwade at redhat.com (Karsten Wade) Date: Wed, 04 Oct 2006 11:52:36 -0700 Subject: Firefox splash page tracker In-Reply-To: References: <1159474492.13299.139.camel@erato.phig.org> <451C8606.8070606@glezos.com> <1159644323.19689.126.camel@erato.phig.org> Message-ID: <1159987956.4193.218.camel@erato.phig.org> On Tue, 2006-10-03 at 14:04 -0400, Max Spevack wrote: > On Sat, 30 Sep 2006, Karsten Wade wrote: > > > Dimitris, thanks for your well written response. I tend to agree with > > your analysis. The intentions of getting a rough count of desktop users > > are obviously the best, but the timing is too short to work out all the > > ramifications (social, technological, etc.). In American football, this > > is where we punt, meaning to kick the idea to the next release. > > > > If we had just a bit more time, we could have a button to click to get > > us some rough numbers, but timing is just too close. > > Here's the thing: [snip useful truths that are not relevant to why people rejected the idea] No disputing the need for more metrics. I think the point you didn't expect ... and still haven't addressed ... is that community members on this list who have to deal with #fedora and fedora-list and the like are concerned about the impression. The arrival of the request on top of all others and "at the last minute" feels hasty and the result of inaction. I have the same concerns I did last week before I pushed the request here, and nearly everyone here has echoed those same concerns without any prompting from me. Right or wrong, people are going to complain that "Fedora is tracking me!" Don't underestimate the size or annoyingly loud voices of our newbie population. That all said, I'm a good soldier when treated like one. If you have a direct order, and sorry if I missed that happen, go ahead and make it. As commander you'll take some heat. Fedora may take some heat as well, but if you are convinced that the value of this data is greater than the devalue of the heat, then I'll keep the faith and go ahead. - Karsten -- Karsten Wade, RHCE, 108 Editor ^ Fedora Documentation Project Sr. Developer Relations Mgr. | fedoraproject.org/wiki/DocsProject quaid.108.redhat.com | gpg key: AD0E0C41 ////////////////////////////////// \\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\ -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: signature.asc Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 189 bytes Desc: This is a digitally signed message part URL: From kwade at redhat.com Wed Oct 4 20:02:20 2006 From: kwade at redhat.com (Karsten Wade) Date: Wed, 04 Oct 2006 13:02:20 -0700 Subject: Firefox splash page tracker In-Reply-To: References: <1159474492.13299.139.camel@erato.phig.org> <451C8606.8070606@glezos.com> <1159644323.19689.126.camel@erato.phig.org> <1159900336.18733.71.camel@localhost.localdomain> Message-ID: <1159992141.4193.250.camel@erato.phig.org> On Tue, 2006-10-03 at 14:52 -0400, Greg DeKoenigsberg wrote: > On Tue, 3 Oct 2006, Sam Folk-Williams wrote: > > > I guess my question is, how could this have happened? How could nothing > > have been gathered in all this time? Also, why did this just now become > > an urgent thing? > > Just because it's a new problem to you doesn't mean that it's a new > problem. It just means that it's a new problem to you. Where you == 95% of the Fedora contributors. > > Right so this should be on track for FC7 - any time really. > > So great. We've got a great idea for FC7. I think it'll be great to > write a firstboot extension that allows us to collect all kinds of spiffy > data. Maybe we can get some community resources to help make it happen -- > because we can't necessarily count on internal dedicated resources. > > It's worth pointing out at this point that we also had a great idea for > FC4 *and* FC5 -- redirecting yum requests through bouncer and collecting > stats that way. But we didn't execute. Why? Because it wasn't judged to > be important enough to expend resources to *make* it happen. > > It's all about execution. We do what we have with what we've got. Ideas > and promises are great, but they don't feed the bulldog. And when we ask > for MORE FUNDING TO MAKE FEDORA BETTER, and the Powers That Be ask, "well, > how many Fedora users do you have?" and we have NO ANSWER, that is BAD FOR > FEDORA. BAAAAAAAD. > > AND I'M SORRY FOR SHOUTING... but I guess I just can't help it. It's > frustrating. I'll go stand in the corner now and suck my thumb until I > feel better. Chicken and egg situation, as usual. We need the resources to do the work to show that we need the resources. When all the incorrect privacy concerns are out of the way, this is how the whole situation reads to me. I suspect others agree; "There are some number crunchers somewhere who think that the value that Fedora is getting out of Red Hat is *greater* than the value that Red Hat is getting out of Fedora. So, they are making it incumbent upon Fedora to prove its worth before they will approve more funds for Fedora." Folks who contribute to and use Fedora have the impression that Fedora is the unloved stepchild of RHEL, right? I think this action is easily perceived by Fedorans that we need to forget our concerns and once again do for Red Hat what Red Hat should have been doing for itself. Bottom line -- if it is so important for Red Hat to know what the Fedora metrics are, Red Hat should be investing some FTE time into generating these metrics. Instead, Red Hat is telling Fedora to get off its butt and prove its own worth. Bottom line ^2 -- Max, it is a sad state of things that you do have to turn to the community to accept and do this. Where is your army of flying monkeys to do your bidding? I say all this as a person in a position to know better, to have a real idea how important and central Fedora is to Red Hat. It is painfully obvious to all that when *anyone* at Red Hat who works on Fedora gets the RHEL siren call, they respond. We say and know that Fedora is important, but when it comes time to prove that, we ask Fedora to prove it for us. Even for Red Hat, denial is not a river in Egypt. > > Why don't we start to prepare some kind of survey of people who are > > registered at various fedora-related sites now? I don't know that it has > > to correspond with a release. > > I guess I don't understand what makes you think that survey data will be > anywhere near as accurate. Survey == choice Click here == choice Tracker PNG == no choice That is the difference in methods here. The quality of the data is secondary. > > On the other hand, if you really think this idea will give you data you > > can trust and urgently need, it might well be worth it to go ahead. I > > just personally think this feels a bit cobbled together. > > We had great, large plans, as early as FC4. Grand plans. Beautiful > plans. What happened? We did not execute. > > Therefore, we dropped back to the *simplest possible plan* that would give > us *any data at all*. Sorry we didn't think of this simple solution early enough to gain some consensus. I have other concerns we do not have time to resolve: * The text is going to be untranslated. We actually had another chance to get this translated, if this thread had been resolved on Saturday. Thus, our warning is going to be unreadable by a % of our userbase. * The text and image is going to stay there forever, each time someone loads the page. Forget the polluted data quality, it's going to signal "Fedora are asses" every time someone loads that page. * Our privacy policy is incomplete (separate email to f-a-b about that forthcoming) * Fedora leadership is going to take some heat, but in the end, all of the hard work and hard hassle is going to be felt by non-Red Hat and Red Hat contributors on the ground. All righty, I think I have gotten all my concerns and feelings off my chest. It is obvious to me now that an order has been given, so we're going to go ahead and proceed with this plan: 1. Include text as proposed in this thread in the /usr/share/doc/HTML/index.html 2. Finish the privacy policy and link that in 3. Figure out at feedback mechanism and link that in Since the folks who worked on these parts have voiced their opposition, and I have already honored that in this thread, I'll personally do all the work to make this happen before Jesse spins the ISO. - Karsten -- Karsten Wade, RHCE, 108 Editor ^ Fedora Documentation Project Sr. Developer Relations Mgr. | fedoraproject.org/wiki/DocsProject quaid.108.redhat.com | gpg key: AD0E0C41 ////////////////////////////////// \\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\ -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: signature.asc Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 189 bytes Desc: This is a digitally signed message part URL: From kwade at redhat.com Wed Oct 4 20:14:03 2006 From: kwade at redhat.com (Karsten Wade) Date: Wed, 04 Oct 2006 13:14:03 -0700 Subject: UPDATE: More translation time! In-Reply-To: <200610031636.55132.jncp@netcabo.pt> References: <1159739426.16696.40.camel@localhost.localdomain> <200610031636.55132.jncp@netcabo.pt> Message-ID: <1159992843.4193.260.camel@erato.phig.org> On Tue, 2006-10-03 at 16:36 +0100, Jos? Nuno Coelho Sanarra Pires wrote: > Lots of translations have been done for the Docs Project, they're all stated > on the Publish Queue, on the Wiki, but almost none of them have been > published yet and it's too bad if they can't manage to be present on FC6 > release. Thanks. We'll do our best to get everything updated for FC6. Right now, just like you, we are busy doing the actual work to get documents completed and ready for the push. We'll likely do all the pushing around the same time, the night before FC6 is released. - Karsten -- Karsten Wade, RHCE, 108 Editor ^ Fedora Documentation Project Sr. Developer Relations Mgr. | fedoraproject.org/wiki/DocsProject quaid.108.redhat.com | gpg key: AD0E0C41 ////////////////////////////////// \\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\ -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: signature.asc Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 189 bytes Desc: This is a digitally signed message part URL: From kwade at redhat.com Wed Oct 4 20:19:56 2006 From: kwade at redhat.com (Karsten Wade) Date: Wed, 04 Oct 2006 13:19:56 -0700 Subject: Translating release announcement In-Reply-To: <45213958.3030509@fedoraproject.org> References: <45213958.3030509@fedoraproject.org> Message-ID: <1159993197.4193.267.camel@erato.phig.org> On Mon, 2006-10-02 at 21:37 +0530, Rahul Sundaram wrote: > Hi > > According to the current release schedule, Fedora Core 6 will be > available publicly on October 11th. Even assuming a delay since we did a > test 4 (sort of) release too, I believe we need to write up the release > announcement now and send it to translators so that we can have the > release announcement also translated and available simultaneously. > > This would boost the visibility of our translation community which has > the largest volunteers in any Fedora sub project. Do we want to do this? There are three documents being worked on: 1. Press release -- Red Hat press team has this, and I've recommended that they engage the Red Hat translation team to make sure it gets translated on time. The community should still be involved. 2. Release summary -- lives on the Wiki (FC6ReleaseSummary). IIRC, last time we decided not to translate this document because it was really just a short version of the release notes. I think it is really too late to ask that we convert this to XML, make a POT, etc. Unless someone else is volunteering to do that, the Usual Gang of Suspects (Paul and myself) are not available. 3. Release announcement -- always done in a whimsical style. I'm looking for someone from this project to bestow the honor of doing the first concept and draft. Any suggestions? The release announcement is typically idiomatic and uses Euro/American humor to such a degree that I can't imagine it translating well. For FC7, my plan is to send a list of 'talking points' to translation teams and encourage them to produce their *own* release announcement, written to match the idiomatic humor of their language. So, by my calculations, there is not much to be done here by translation except for the formal (dry, boring, plain) press release. - Karsten -- Karsten Wade, RHCE, 108 Editor ^ Fedora Documentation Project Sr. Developer Relations Mgr. | fedoraproject.org/wiki/DocsProject quaid.108.redhat.com | gpg key: AD0E0C41 ////////////////////////////////// \\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\ -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: signature.asc Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 189 bytes Desc: This is a digitally signed message part URL: From notting at redhat.com Wed Oct 4 20:28:56 2006 From: notting at redhat.com (Bill Nottingham) Date: Wed, 4 Oct 2006 16:28:56 -0400 Subject: Translating release announcement In-Reply-To: <1159993197.4193.267.camel@erato.phig.org> References: <45213958.3030509@fedoraproject.org> <1159993197.4193.267.camel@erato.phig.org> Message-ID: <20061004202856.GA8488@nostromo.devel.redhat.com> Karsten Wade (kwade at redhat.com) said: > 3. Release announcement -- always done in a whimsical style. I'm > looking for someone from this project to bestow the honor of doing the > first concept and draft. Any suggestions? > > The release announcement is typically idiomatic and uses Euro/American > humor to such a degree that I can't imagine it translating well. Should it have something to do with the name? Bill From kwade at redhat.com Wed Oct 4 21:08:27 2006 From: kwade at redhat.com (Karsten Wade) Date: Wed, 04 Oct 2006 14:08:27 -0700 Subject: Translating release announcement In-Reply-To: <20061004202856.GA8488@nostromo.devel.redhat.com> References: <45213958.3030509@fedoraproject.org> <1159993197.4193.267.camel@erato.phig.org> <20061004202856.GA8488@nostromo.devel.redhat.com> Message-ID: <1159996107.4193.275.camel@erato.phig.org> On Wed, 2006-10-04 at 16:28 -0400, Bill Nottingham wrote: > Karsten Wade (kwade at redhat.com) said: > > 3. Release announcement -- always done in a whimsical style. I'm > > looking for someone from this project to bestow the honor of doing the > > first concept and draft. Any suggestions? > > > > The release announcement is typically idiomatic and uses Euro/American > > humor to such a degree that I can't imagine it translating well. > > Should it have something to do with the name? Name? We have a name? :) Are they ever or usually related? I disrecall. If so, then it definitely is not possible to translate it, as we are quite late in reaching that decision. - Karsten -- Karsten Wade, RHCE, 108 Editor ^ Fedora Documentation Project Sr. Developer Relations Mgr. | fedoraproject.org/wiki/DocsProject quaid.108.redhat.com | gpg key: AD0E0C41 ////////////////////////////////// \\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\ -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: signature.asc Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 189 bytes Desc: This is a digitally signed message part URL: From kwade at redhat.com Wed Oct 4 22:32:11 2006 From: kwade at redhat.com (Karsten Wade) Date: Wed, 04 Oct 2006 15:32:11 -0700 Subject: splash page + tracking image example Message-ID: <1160001132.4193.283.camel@erato.phig.org> I've got the changes made in the XML in my local sandbox. Here is what it looks like when rendered: https://quaid.108.redhat.com/nonav/fedora/homepage/index-en_US.html I chose to use a column instead of putting another [Note] at the top because that would uselessly push the more meaningful content too far down the page. I'm not comfortable that "Tracking Desktop Users" fits under either of the main sections (Fedora Documentation, Other Resources). I put it on the left side mainly to provide visual balance. I suppose, however, it more closely resembles "Other Resources". The image is 1x1 but rendered as 10x10 because otherwise it disappears on the page. I made some small additions to the last-agreed-upon content. Max, Greg -- comments? - Karsten -- Karsten Wade, RHCE, 108 Editor ^ Fedora Documentation Project Sr. Developer Relations Mgr. | fedoraproject.org/wiki/DocsProject quaid.108.redhat.com | gpg key: AD0E0C41 ////////////////////////////////// \\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\ -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: signature.asc Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 189 bytes Desc: This is a digitally signed message part URL: From sundaram at fedoraproject.org Wed Oct 4 22:58:18 2006 From: sundaram at fedoraproject.org (Rahul Sundaram) Date: Thu, 05 Oct 2006 04:28:18 +0530 Subject: splash page + tracking image example In-Reply-To: <1160001132.4193.283.camel@erato.phig.org> References: <1160001132.4193.283.camel@erato.phig.org> Message-ID: <45243C8A.1090804@fedoraproject.org> Karsten Wade wrote: > I've got the changes made in the XML in my local sandbox. Here is what > it looks like when rendered: > > https://quaid.108.redhat.com/nonav/fedora/homepage/index-en_US.html > > I chose to use a column instead of putting another [Note] at the top > because that would uselessly push the more meaningful content too far > down the page. > > I'm not comfortable that "Tracking Desktop Users" fits under either of > the main sections (Fedora Documentation, Other Resources). I put it on > the left side mainly to provide visual balance. I suppose, however, it > more closely resembles "Other Resources". > > The image is 1x1 but rendered as 10x10 because otherwise it disappears > on the page. I made some small additions to the last-agreed-upon > content. > > Max, Greg -- comments? > Can we use something more visually appealing than a small blue dot. Perhaps the Fedora logo itself would be more appropriate? Also the title there should probably be "Counting Fedora Desktop Users". Tracking seems to imply a more continuous activity rather than effectively a one time hit counter. The sentence "Don't worry about multiple counts, shared IP addresses, and so forth" implies that multiple counts would be distort data while it would not. We just need to uniquely sort it by IP addresses. The last sentence about funding seems to add to the confusion rather than help clarify it. I would advise dropping that. Maybe we should add a sentence last that says "If you are not online and do not wish to be counted, you can simply change this homepage". Rahul From docs-list at fedoralinks.org Wed Oct 4 23:11:00 2006 From: docs-list at fedoralinks.org (Robert 'Bob' Jensen) Date: Wed, 04 Oct 2006 18:11:00 -0500 Subject: UPDATE: More translation time! In-Reply-To: <200610031636.55132.jncp@netcabo.pt> References: <1159739426.16696.40.camel@localhost.localdomain> <200610031636.55132.jncp@netcabo.pt> Message-ID: <45243F84.2010100@fedoralinks.org> Jos? Nuno Coelho Sanarra Pires wrote: > Em Domingo, 1 de Outubro de 2006 22:50, o Paul W. Frields escreveu: > > Hi! > > On behalf of the European Portuguese team, our work here is done. The FC6 > Installation Guide and Release Notes are now fully translated and > spellchecked. > > As my co-editor (Pedro Morais - PedroMorais on Wiki) is on vacations, he won't > be able to approve any of the Portuguese docs in the next few weeks. > > What I'm asking here is if someone (from the PT-BR team, for example) is > available to validate and approve the PT-PT translations for this release. > > Lots of translations have been done for the Docs Project, they're all stated > on the Publish Queue, on the Wiki, but almost none of them have been > published yet and it's too bad if they can't manage to be present on FC6 > release. > > Best regards > Thank you Jos? Nuno Coelho Pires Bob From kwade at redhat.com Thu Oct 5 00:03:30 2006 From: kwade at redhat.com (Karsten Wade) Date: Wed, 04 Oct 2006 17:03:30 -0700 Subject: splash page + tracking image example In-Reply-To: <45243C8A.1090804@fedoraproject.org> References: <1160001132.4193.283.camel@erato.phig.org> <45243C8A.1090804@fedoraproject.org> Message-ID: <1160006611.4193.301.camel@erato.phig.org> On Thu, 2006-10-05 at 04:28 +0530, Rahul Sundaram wrote: > Can we use something more visually appealing than a small blue dot. > Perhaps the Fedora logo itself would be more appropriate? Sure. We just need it to be in a unique location hit only by this page; I'll get that done. > Also the title > there should probably be "Counting Fedora Desktop Users". Tracking seems > to imply a more continuous activity rather than effectively a one time > hit counter. OK, thx. > The sentence "Don't worry about multiple counts, shared IP addresses, > and so forth" implies that multiple counts would be distort data while > it would not. We just need to uniquely sort it by IP addresses. We are talking to people who wouldn't get that and would worry about multiple hits. People who think a rolling page hit counter has meaning. > The last sentence about funding seems to add to the confusion rather > than help clarify it. I would advise dropping that. Maybe we should add > a sentence last that says "If you are not online and do not wish to be > counted, you can simply change this homepage". I thought we were trying for clarity and honesty in the message? Everything I read in the thread so far boils down to, "We need this to justify (more) money, and that is the primary importance over all other considerations at this time." Counting users to make better decisions is obfuscation talk. How does a raw user count make better decisions? You'd need to know some depth about those users to have it influence decisions. Perhaps we can soften the blow better than I did, but if we're being honest, we have to be honest *and* clear. - Karsten -- Karsten Wade, RHCE, 108 Editor ^ Fedora Documentation Project Sr. Developer Relations Mgr. | fedoraproject.org/wiki/DocsProject quaid.108.redhat.com | gpg key: AD0E0C41 ////////////////////////////////// \\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\ -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: signature.asc Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 189 bytes Desc: This is a digitally signed message part URL: From sundaram at fedoraproject.org Thu Oct 5 00:32:00 2006 From: sundaram at fedoraproject.org (Rahul Sundaram) Date: Thu, 05 Oct 2006 06:02:00 +0530 Subject: splash page + tracking image example In-Reply-To: <1160006611.4193.301.camel@erato.phig.org> References: <1160001132.4193.283.camel@erato.phig.org> <45243C8A.1090804@fedoraproject.org> <1160006611.4193.301.camel@erato.phig.org> Message-ID: <45245280.1020407@fedoraproject.org> Karsten Wade wrote: >> The sentence "Don't worry about multiple counts, shared IP addresses, >> and so forth" implies that multiple counts would be distort data while >> it would not. We just need to uniquely sort it by IP addresses. > > We are talking to people who wouldn't get that and would worry about > multiple hits. People who think a rolling page hit counter has meaning. As far as multiple hits are concerned, we have a IP based way to sort that out. They wouldnt add to the inaccuracy of the data like shared IP addresses would. If we can fit that into the message, we should. Otherwise the effort appears more fuzzy unnecessarily. > >> The last sentence about funding seems to add to the confusion rather >> than help clarify it. I would advise dropping that. Maybe we should add >> a sentence last that says "If you are not online and do not wish to be >> counted, you can simply change this homepage". > > I thought we were trying for clarity and honesty in the message? > Everything I read in the thread so far boils down to, "We need this to > justify (more) money, and that is the primary importance over all other > considerations at this time." > > Counting users to make better decisions is obfuscation talk. How does a > raw user count make better decisions? You'd need to know some depth > about those users to have it influence decisions. > > Perhaps we can soften the blow better than I did, but if we're being > honest, we have to be honest *and* clear. I dont have a problem with conveying the information to people. Trying to read it from the end user perspective, the note about funding adds to the confusion rather than clarify any information to me. Funding from whom? How would counting desktop users corelate with funding? Raises more questions that it answers. More details wouldnt actually fit into that page. If we are trying to explain it, we can potentially link to a wiki page that provides more information. The hit counter would only work if you go online with the default homepage, so we can explain it in detail there and that's a feasible solution. The last sentence should be a note on opting out by changing the homepage before going online so users dont have to worry about that. Rahul From samfw at redhat.com Thu Oct 5 00:36:58 2006 From: samfw at redhat.com (Sam Folk-Williams) Date: Wed, 04 Oct 2006 20:36:58 -0400 Subject: splash page + tracking image example In-Reply-To: <1160006611.4193.301.camel@erato.phig.org> References: <1160001132.4193.283.camel@erato.phig.org> <45243C8A.1090804@fedoraproject.org> <1160006611.4193.301.camel@erato.phig.org> Message-ID: <1160008618.5103.16.camel@samfw.rdu.redhat.com> On Wed, 2006-10-04 at 17:03 -0700, Karsten Wade wrote: > On Thu, 2006-10-05 at 04:28 +0530, Rahul Sundaram wrote: > > Can we use something more visually appealing than a small blue dot. > > Perhaps the Fedora logo itself would be more appropriate? > > Sure. We just need it to be in a unique location hit only by this page; > I'll get that done. > > > Also the title > > there should probably be "Counting Fedora Desktop Users". Tracking seems > > to imply a more continuous activity rather than effectively a one time > > hit counter. > > OK, thx. +1 on this. The tracker word freaked me out. Maybe something like "How many Fedora users are there?" > > > The sentence "Don't worry about multiple counts, shared IP addresses, > > and so forth" implies that multiple counts would be distort data while > > it would not. We just need to uniquely sort it by IP addresses. > > We are talking to people who wouldn't get that and would worry about > multiple hits. People who think a rolling page hit counter has meaning. > We don't want it to sound like we don't care if the data is wrong. The sentence as is says to me, "We know this is inaccurate and stupid, but hey we're doing it anyway". Maybe just something like, "We are counting the number of unique IP addresses. If you are connecting from home or from your office, you will likely always have the same IP address and therefore won't be counted multiple times. " Or... maybe even better nothing at all. > > The last sentence about funding seems to add to the confusion rather > > than help clarify it. I would advise dropping that. Maybe we should add > > a sentence last that says "If you are not online and do not wish to be > > counted, you can simply change this homepage". > > I thought we were trying for clarity and honesty in the message? > Everything I read in the thread so far boils down to, "We need this to > justify (more) money, and that is the primary importance over all other > considerations at this time." > > Counting users to make better decisions is obfuscation talk. How does a > raw user count make better decisions? You'd need to know some depth > about those users to have it influence decisions. > > Perhaps we can soften the blow better than I did, but if we're being > honest, we have to be honest *and* clear. > I see both of sides of this one, but ultimately I agree with Rahul's take. I like the idea of linking to a wiki page where things are explained in greater detail for those who care. For those who don't, let's keep the text minimal on this page... > - Karsten > -- > fedora-docs-list mailing list > fedora-docs-list at redhat.com > To unsubscribe: > https://www.redhat.com/mailman/listinfo/fedora-docs-list -- Sam Folk-Williams, RHCE Global Support Services From docs-list at fedoralinks.org Thu Oct 5 00:55:12 2006 From: docs-list at fedoralinks.org (Robert 'Bob' Jensen) Date: Wed, 04 Oct 2006 19:55:12 -0500 Subject: Brazilian Portuguese Translation for RELEASE NOTES (FC6) In-Reply-To: <200610040559.45104.hugo@devin.com.br> References: <200610040559.45104.hugo@devin.com.br> Message-ID: <452457F0.7080209@fedoralinks.org> Hugo Cisneiros wrote: > Hi guys, > > Just to inform you that the release notes for FC6 is now translated to > Brazilian Portuguese and is commited to the CVS (both i18n and fedora-docs). > In this last day, it will be only revision. > > The .po file is on the CVS, and a built draft is available in the following > URL: > > http://www.devin.com.br/eitch/fedora/RELEASE-NOTES-pt_BR/ > > When the revision is completed, I'll inform again. > > Oh, and sorry for being such a lazy ass this time :-) > > Cheers, > Thanks Hugo, Bob -- Robert 'Bob' Jensen * * http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/BobJensen gpg fingerprint: F9F4 7243 4243 0043 2C45 97AF E8A4 C3AE 42EB 0BC6 Fedora Docs Projects FDSCo http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/DocsProject From dimitris at glezos.com Thu Oct 5 01:22:51 2006 From: dimitris at glezos.com (Dimitris Glezos) Date: Thu, 05 Oct 2006 02:22:51 +0100 Subject: splash page + tracking image example In-Reply-To: <45243C8A.1090804@fedoraproject.org> References: <1160001132.4193.283.camel@erato.phig.org> <45243C8A.1090804@fedoraproject.org> Message-ID: <45245E6B.1060903@glezos.com> O/H Rahul Sundaram ??????: > Karsten Wade wrote: >> I've got the changes made in the XML in my local sandbox. Here is what >> it looks like when rendered: >> >> https://quaid.108.redhat.com/nonav/fedora/homepage/index-en_US.html >> >> I chose to use a column instead of putting another [Note] at the top >> because that would uselessly push the more meaningful content too far >> down the page. >> >> Max, Greg -- comments? >> > > [...] > The last sentence about funding seems to add to the confusion rather > than help clarify it. I would advise dropping that. Maybe we should add > a sentence last that says "If you are not online and do not wish to be > counted, you can simply change this homepage". If we do go for it, I suggest that we should give the user the choice not to participate in the user-counting process but still retain the beautiful homepage that might help him use his/her Desktop in a better way. (Eg just have the user-counting box removed.) Just for the record, I still don't agree with the particular solution (tracker image) at this exact time (6 days before the release) with this amount of discussion and opinions heard. My thoughts can be found at [1]. -dim [1]: http://www.redhat.com/archives/fedora-docs-list/2006-September/msg00114.html -- Dimitris Glezos Jabber ID: glezos at jabber.org, GPG: 0xA5A04C3B http://dimitris.glezos.com/ "He who gives up functionality for ease of use loses both and deserves neither." (Anonymous) -- From sundaram at fedoraproject.org Thu Oct 5 01:47:18 2006 From: sundaram at fedoraproject.org (Rahul Sundaram) Date: Thu, 05 Oct 2006 07:17:18 +0530 Subject: splash page + tracking image example In-Reply-To: <45245E6B.1060903@glezos.com> References: <1160001132.4193.283.camel@erato.phig.org> <45243C8A.1090804@fedoraproject.org> <45245E6B.1060903@glezos.com> Message-ID: <45246426.9030908@fedoraproject.org> Dimitris Glezos wrote: > O/H Rahul Sundaram ??????: >> Karsten Wade wrote: >>> I've got the changes made in the XML in my local sandbox. Here is what >>> it looks like when rendered: >>> >>> https://quaid.108.redhat.com/nonav/fedora/homepage/index-en_US.html >>> >>> I chose to use a column instead of putting another [Note] at the top >>> because that would uselessly push the more meaningful content too far >>> down the page. >>> >>> Max, Greg -- comments? >>> >> [...] >> The last sentence about funding seems to add to the confusion rather >> than help clarify it. I would advise dropping that. Maybe we should add >> a sentence last that says "If you are not online and do not wish to be >> counted, you can simply change this homepage". > > If we do go for it, I suggest that we should give the user the choice not to > participate in the user-counting process but still retain the beautiful homepage > that might help him use his/her Desktop in a better way. (Eg just have the > user-counting box removed.) What would be the best way to do that? > > Just for the record, I still don't agree with the particular solution (tracker > image) at this exact time (6 days before the release) with this amount of > discussion and opinions heard. My thoughts can be found at [1]. > Not very related, I have a hunch that the release might be delayed a bit after the t4 release and looking at the number of release blockers. So we still have might have some room for discussion. Rahul From kwade at redhat.com Thu Oct 5 03:53:24 2006 From: kwade at redhat.com (Karsten Wade) Date: Wed, 04 Oct 2006 20:53:24 -0700 Subject: splash page + tracking image example In-Reply-To: <45246426.9030908@fedoraproject.org> References: <1160001132.4193.283.camel@erato.phig.org> <45243C8A.1090804@fedoraproject.org> <45245E6B.1060903@glezos.com> <45246426.9030908@fedoraproject.org> Message-ID: <1160020404.4193.309.camel@erato.phig.org> On Thu, 2006-10-05 at 07:17 +0530, Rahul Sundaram wrote: > > If we do go for it, I suggest that we should give the user the choice not to > > participate in the user-counting process but still retain the beautiful homepage > > that might help him use his/her Desktop in a better way. (Eg just have the > > user-counting box removed.) > > What would be the best way to do that? Just to throw out the first dumb solution ... su -c 'cp /usr/share/doc/HTML/index-no-counting.html /usr/share/doc/HTML/index.html' We put in two versions; the default has the and PNG, the no-counting version just builds without the . - Karsten -- Karsten Wade, RHCE, 108 Editor ^ Fedora Documentation Project Sr. Developer Relations Mgr. | fedoraproject.org/wiki/DocsProject quaid.108.redhat.com | gpg key: AD0E0C41 ////////////////////////////////// \\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\ -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: signature.asc Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 189 bytes Desc: This is a digitally signed message part URL: From gdk at redhat.com Thu Oct 5 03:53:12 2006 From: gdk at redhat.com (Greg DeKoenigsberg) Date: Wed, 4 Oct 2006 23:53:12 -0400 (EDT) Subject: splash page + tracking image example In-Reply-To: <1160008618.5103.16.camel@samfw.rdu.redhat.com> References: <1160001132.4193.283.camel@erato.phig.org> <45243C8A.1090804@fedoraproject.org> <1160006611.4193.301.camel@erato.phig.org> <1160008618.5103.16.camel@samfw.rdu.redhat.com> Message-ID: On Wed, 4 Oct 2006, Sam Folk-Williams wrote: > I like the idea of linking to a wiki page where things are explained in > greater detail for those who care. For those who don't, let's keep the > text minimal on this page... I like this idea as well. In fact, if we want full transparency, we can even admit on the wiki page in question that this isn't an easy decision, and that we're not even sure it's the perfectly right thing to do. And we can ask users to tell us what they think of the policy. --g ------------------------------------------------------------- Greg DeKoenigsberg || Fedora Project || fedoraproject.org Be an Ambassador || http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Ambassadors ------------------------------------------------------------- From gdk at redhat.com Thu Oct 5 05:56:37 2006 From: gdk at redhat.com (Greg DeKoenigsberg) Date: Thu, 5 Oct 2006 01:56:37 -0400 (EDT) Subject: splash page + tracking image example In-Reply-To: <1160006611.4193.301.camel@erato.phig.org> References: <1160001132.4193.283.camel@erato.phig.org> <45243C8A.1090804@fedoraproject.org> <1160006611.4193.301.camel@erato.phig.org> Message-ID: Apologies in advance for a very long-winded email. First, let me first offer a personal apology about this whole tracker business. I know that a lot of people here disagree with both the idea of a tracker, and the method that's being used to push it through. The hardworking volunteers on this team are being asked to do something unpalatable, at the last minute, outside of the team's process, without the benefit of real debate. Generally speaking, it's pretty much the opposite of how decisions should be taken in the community. That sucks. As the person who is strongly advocating this solution, it makes me feel like a jackass. Generally speaking, I don't like to feel like a jackass. In almost all cases, "Greg feels like jackass" is usually a strong signal that "Greg is wrong". In this case, though, "Greg feels like a jackass" makes me feel more like "Greg probably went about things the wrong way and needs to explain himself, but Greg is still fighting hard to do the right thing." So let me explain. We've still got some time to discuss "the right thing". It's not much time, but at least I'll feel like I made an honest attempt. I also want to make this very clear: I admire and respect this community and its leadership. I consider many of you to be longstanding friends. I am still at Red Hat because I believe in the importance of the work that we all do together. I hope you all understand that, even if I advocate a position that you strongly disagree with, I do it because I believe that it will benefit Fedora's users and contributors in the long run. 1. WHY ARE METRICS SO IMPORTANT? Really, this question should be asked this way: "are metrics so important that you're ready to risk alienating some users and contributors to get them?" And the answer to that question, from my perspective, is "yes". Why? Because, like it or not, every funding conversation inside of Red Hat's walls begins and ends with metrics. If it isn't measurable, it doesn't exist. Fact. This is especially important in the case of Fedora, because Fedora doesn't make any money directly for Red Hat. We continue to develop Fedora because it serves other purposes. Research and development. Quality Assurance for RHEL. The ethics of continuing to provide free software, which is important to all of us. And, most importantly from my own perspective, *community mindshare*. If we can't quantify Fedora's mindshare in some way, we lose one of the *major* rationales for making the Fedora Project stronger and more independent. Every time a Red Hat executive asks "how many Fedora users are out there?" and we answer "oh, somewhere between 100k and a few million," we make it *that* much more difficult to defend Fedora from bad Red Hat decisions. If a Red Hat executive has to choose between giving resources to RHEL and giving resources to Fedora, and if he's got dollar figures on one side of the ledger and hand-wavy "mindshare" guesses on the other side of the ledger, he's going to choose RHEL. Every single time. I've seen it happen, again and again and again and again. And again. Part of my job as "the community guy" is to fight my ass off to make sure we don't continue to make those mistakes. To win that fight, I need metrics. And the better metrics I have, the better a fight I can put up on Fedora's behalf. So will better metrics suddenly fill the Fedora coffers with gold, and allow us to hire engineers to solve all of Fedora's problems? No. Not hardly. But these metrics *are* a necessary precondition to further funding: of developer conferences, of infrastructure projects, of more hardware, of more engineers. In short: Red Hat asks Fedora to be accountable for delivering value to the company -- value that must be quantified beyond dollars and cents. If we cannot be accountable in this way, we make it difficult to justify further investment. Investment that is, in my opinion, *badly needed* to ensure ever more meaningful community involvement. These are, in the end, political disputes. Karsten has argued to me privately that "the Fedora community shouldn't have to care about Red Hat's political issues." In an ideal world, that would be true. But in the real world, Fedora is *incredibly* dependent upon Red Hat's largesse to be successful. 2. OKAY, FINE, WE TAKE THE POINT ABOUT METRICS -- BUT DON'T THE PROPOSED FIREFOX METRICS SUCK? ARE UNIQUE IP ADDRESSES REALLY THAT USEFUL? Maybe not. There may be better ways, and it's clear to me now that we should have been discussing all of these better ways a long time ago. In my judgment, this solution had three primary benefits that recommended it above all others: a. Dead simple to implement; b. Will gather the most data, since more computer users run web browsers than just about any other application (which is arguably anecdotal); c. Will gather data that may potentially be sliced across several meaningful axes, including language and region. Seth Vidal also points out that we can gather much of the same data from yum, since yum talks to a central server to obtain mirror data. This is another useful approach, and if we'd been having this conversation in public over a long period of time, it would have become evident much earlier. I would argue that this data should be collected *in addition* to the Firefox data, because it will tell us a different story: not necessarily desktop users, users who understand that updates are important, users who have bandwidth to retrieve updates online. Every metric is imperfect. The Firefox metric is the best one I've been able to come up with in this short timeframe. 3. CAN THIS NOT WAIT UNTIL FC7, WHEN WE CAN SOLVE THIS PROBLEM "THE RIGHT WAY"? I don't believe we can. In my opinion, we need *urgently* to start somewhere. It's the difference between building a funding plan now and building it 6-9 months from now. Now, that said, I think that solving this problem *correctly* is vital. Ultimately, I think a new page in firstboot in FC7 is the right solution. But that will require a robust backend, and those are seldom as simple as they seem when you're drawing them up on the whiteboard. 4. WHY IN GOD'S NAME DIDN'T YOU COME TO US WITH ALL OF THIS EARLIER? The honest truth: I never expected this firestorm of controversy. Setting the start page to go to a vendor site is one of the oldest tricks in the browser world; Netscape was using this technique as one of their primary business strategies over ten years ago. We collect exactly *zero* personally identifiable information. It just seems so clearly defensible to me that I never even considered the possibility that reasonable people would object to it. But you are all reasonable people, and many of you object to it. And it's possible that some of our users will object to it as well. I understand that. But I believe it's a risk we need to take. It's a tricky thing, you know? It's clear to me now that we should have been having this conversation weeks ago -- and I believe that many people feel more strongly about the way this solution has been shoved down people's throats than they feel about the proposed solution itself. For that, I deeply and humbly apologize. I screwed up. I'm sorry. Screwups aside, though, we're at a decision point. I've done my best to convince you all the best way I know how. The decision is ultimately in Max's hands; he gets paid to make exactly these kinds of decisions, and he ultimately is held accountable by Red Hat for Fedora's successes and failures. Anyway. If you all feel so strongly that my analysis is *so flawed*, and that the perceptions of this "tracker" have the potential to be *so damaging* to the goals of the project, that we should wait another several months and bet on another solution in FC7... well, then, I'll take your side in the matter, and trust you to help us solve this problem in FC7. When we've really needed you, you've never let us down before. --g ------------------------------------------------------------- Greg DeKoenigsberg || Fedora Project || fedoraproject.org Be an Ambassador || http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Ambassadors ------------------------------------------------------------- From stickster at gmail.com Thu Oct 5 06:05:29 2006 From: stickster at gmail.com (Paul W. Frields) Date: Wed, 04 Oct 2006 23:05:29 -0700 Subject: Guido Caruso: Sponsor found (but CVS says...) In-Reply-To: <20061003121001.de24042903101a4f77687a9d31d0690f.0b56423527.wbe@email.secureserver.net> References: <20061003121001.de24042903101a4f77687a9d31d0690f.0b56423527.wbe@email.secureserver.net> Message-ID: <1160028329.3544.8.camel@localhost.localdomain> On Tue, 2006-10-03 at 12:10 -0700, g.caruso at fedoraserver.org wrote: > > The "cvsdocs" group controls access only to the Docs CVS > > I think there is a different group for access to i18n.redhat.com CVS. > > Thanks, Paul, for your answer. But you can imagine my confusion; > translation-quick-start-guide says: > > "Once you have successfully completed the CLA, return to the account > system and select Edit Your Account. Enter the password you received by > email and select Add new membership at the bottom of the page. In the > field Groupname, enter cvsdocs and select Add. This action requests > access to the CVS repository where the documentation is stored. > [Important] CVS Access is Not Automatic > When you fill out this form, you are not automatically granted write > access to the CVS repository. You may need sponsorship from one of the > Fedora Documentation Project managers to get this access." Right, these instructions come from Section 2.3, the section on access to translating Docs (Docs CVS). Section 2.2 concerns access to i18n.redhat.com. Cheers! -- Paul W. Frields, RHCE http://paul.frields.org/ gpg fingerprint: 3DA6 A0AC 6D58 FEC4 0233 5906 ACDB C937 BD11 3717 Fedora Project Board: http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Board Fedora Docs Project: http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/DocsProject -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: signature.asc Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 189 bytes Desc: This is a digitally signed message part URL: From stickster at gmail.com Thu Oct 5 06:08:11 2006 From: stickster at gmail.com (Paul W. Frields) Date: Wed, 04 Oct 2006 23:08:11 -0700 Subject: Release notes bug: test3 string In-Reply-To: <1159935526.4193.167.camel@erato.phig.org> References: <200610032325.39841.hugo@devin.com.br> <1159935526.4193.167.camel@erato.phig.org> Message-ID: <1160028491.3544.12.camel@localhost.localdomain> On Tue, 2006-10-03 at 21:18 -0700, Karsten Wade wrote: > On Tue, 2006-10-03 at 23:25 -0300, Hugo Cisneiros wrote: > > Hi, > > > > I have found this on the release-notes: > > > > #: en_US/Kernel.xml:186(para) > > msgid "There is no support for Xen or kdump for the PowerPC architecture in > > Fedora Core 6 test3. 32-bit PowerPC does still have a separate SMP kernel." > > msgstr "" > > > > It appears that it's referring to the test3 release instead of the final > > one :-) > > Should we update the POT file? Is this something we can fix later? > That is, do people translated 'test3'? Do not change the POT file. It will result in the entire paragraph being "rejected" in the translation. Better to have a small typo than an entire untranslated admonition. We'll fix this in the Web-only release to follow. -- Paul W. Frields, RHCE http://paul.frields.org/ gpg fingerprint: 3DA6 A0AC 6D58 FEC4 0233 5906 ACDB C937 BD11 3717 Fedora Project Board: http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Board Fedora Docs Project: http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/DocsProject -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: signature.asc Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 189 bytes Desc: This is a digitally signed message part URL: From g.caruso at fedoraserver.org Thu Oct 5 07:13:23 2006 From: g.caruso at fedoraserver.org (g.caruso at fedoraserver.org) Date: Thu, 05 Oct 2006 00:13:23 -0700 Subject: Guido Caruso: Sponsor found (but CVS says...) - SOLVED Message-ID: <20061005001323.de24042903101a4f77687a9d31d0690f.ef3f69dc60.wbe@email.secureserver.net> I solved my problem. I wrote to i18n at redhat.com : the problem was with my public key (line breaks). Best regards, Guido.- From andrewm at inventa.ru Thu Oct 5 07:22:34 2006 From: andrewm at inventa.ru (Andrew Martynov) Date: Thu, 5 Oct 2006 11:22:34 +0400 Subject: Russian Release Notes (FC6) Message-ID: Hi, I commited few hours ago complete Russian translation of Release Notes for FC6 ISO. I`m going to reread it and make little correction today evening, but it is good enougth to include RU translation to ISO distribution right now if required. Regards, Andrew Martynov -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From docs-list at fedoralinks.org Thu Oct 5 07:35:23 2006 From: docs-list at fedoralinks.org (Robert 'Bob' Jensen) Date: Thu, 05 Oct 2006 02:35:23 -0500 Subject: CVS sync FC6 Translations Message-ID: <4524B5BB.4000101@fedoralinks.org> We requested that translations be in to i18n.redhat.com by 12:00 UTC Thursday, Oct 05, 2006 this is a little more then 4 hours away. After that time if someone could sync these translations with the main docs CVS and let us know when it is complete it would be wonderful. Karsten and I can then start checking things over and building. I personally would like to thank every one in the translation teams that put forth such a wonderful effort with the situation we had. My thanks also go out to every one that contributed to the release notes. Thank you again, Bob -- Robert 'Bob' Jensen * * http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/BobJensen gpg fingerprint: F9F4 7243 4243 0043 2C45 97AF E8A4 C3AE 42EB 0BC6 Fedora Docs Projects FDSCo http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/DocsProject From docs-list at fedoralinks.org Thu Oct 5 07:44:44 2006 From: docs-list at fedoralinks.org (Robert 'Bob' Jensen) Date: Thu, 05 Oct 2006 02:44:44 -0500 Subject: Russian Release Notes (FC6) In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <4524B7EC.10806@fedoralinks.org> Andrew Martynov wrote: > Hi, > > I commited few hours ago complete Russian translation of > Release Notes for FC6 ISO. > > I`m going to reread it and make little correction today evening, > but it is good enougth to include RU translation to ISO distribution > right now if required. > > Regards, > Andrew Martynov > Thank you very much for your hard work and dedication Andrew. Bob -- Robert 'Bob' Jensen * * http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/BobJensen gpg fingerprint: F9F4 7243 4243 0043 2C45 97AF E8A4 C3AE 42EB 0BC6 Fedora Docs Projects FDSCo http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/DocsProject From hugo at devin.com.br Thu Oct 5 13:47:36 2006 From: hugo at devin.com.br (Hugo Cisneiros) Date: Thu, 5 Oct 2006 10:47:36 -0300 Subject: CVS sync FC6 Translations In-Reply-To: <4524B5BB.4000101@fedoralinks.org> References: <4524B5BB.4000101@fedoralinks.org> Message-ID: <200610051047.36203.hugo@devin.com.br> On Thursday 05 October 2006 04:35, Robert 'Bob' Jensen wrote: > We requested that translations be in to i18n.redhat.com by 12:00 UTC > Thursday, Oct 05, 2006 this is a little more then 4 hours away. After > that time if someone could sync these translations with the main docs > CVS and let us know when it is complete it would be wonderful. Karsten > and I can then start checking things over and building. I personally > would like to thank every one in the translation teams that put forth > such a wonderful effort with the situation we had. My thanks also go out > to every one that contributed to the release notes. The Brazilian Portuguese is complete too :-) > Thank you again, > Bo -- []'s Eitch http://www.devin.com.br/eitch/ "Talk is cheap. Show me the code." - Linus Torvalds From mspevack at redhat.com Thu Oct 5 15:22:44 2006 From: mspevack at redhat.com (Max Spevack) Date: Thu, 5 Oct 2006 11:22:44 -0400 (EDT) Subject: (read this one) Re: Firefox splash page tracker In-Reply-To: <1159987956.4193.218.camel@erato.phig.org> References: <1159474492.13299.139.camel@erato.phig.org> <451C8606.8070606@glezos.com> <1159644323.19689.126.camel@erato.phig.org> <1159987956.4193.218.camel@erato.phig.org> Message-ID: On Wed, 4 Oct 2006, Karsten Wade wrote: > That all said, I'm a good soldier when treated like one. If you have a > direct order, and sorry if I missed that happen, go ahead and make it. > As commander you'll take some heat. Fedora may take some heat as well, > but if you are convinced that the value of this data is greater than the > devalue of the heat, then I'll keep the faith and go ahead. No, that's not what I want to do. See my latest on f-a-b in which I am leaving the decision to a subset of folks (the only one of whom who works for Red Hat is Karsten). https://www.redhat.com/archives/fedora-advisory-board/2006-October/msg00038.html The only "direct order" that I'm comfortable with issuing is: Even though we're at the last minute, we need *some kind of solution* for FC6. I do not want to "order" folks to do something that so many of them are opposed to. Especially folks who are working on Fedora out of the kindness of their own hearts, folks for whom I am not their "manager", etc. -- Max Spevack + http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/MaxSpevack + gpg key -- http://spevack.org/max.asc + fingerprint -- CD52 5E72 369B B00D 9E9A 773E 2FDB CB46 5A17 CF21 From mspevack at redhat.com Thu Oct 5 15:26:48 2006 From: mspevack at redhat.com (Max Spevack) Date: Thu, 5 Oct 2006 11:26:48 -0400 (EDT) Subject: [fab] Re: splash page + tracking image example In-Reply-To: <1160061793.31974.9.camel@zod.rchland.ibm.com> References: <1160001132.4193.283.camel@erato.phig.org> <45243C8A.1090804@fedoraproject.org> <1160006611.4193.301.camel@erato.phig.org> <1160061793.31974.9.camel@zod.rchland.ibm.com> Message-ID: On Thu, 5 Oct 2006, Josh Boyer wrote: > No, it's not. DHCP, NAT, proxies, etc. all make "unique" IP addresses a > horrible metric. In some cases, you get a single IP address for a > number of different machines. In others, you get two IP addresses for > the same machine. That's true, it will not be perfect by any means. > Yes, counting IP addresses will give you a metric. I just don't think > that metric is good for much because you still don't know how many > machines really have Fedora installed. Is it better than nothing? I > don't know. It gets you a pile of data, which can be analyzed and from which value can be extracted. It's certainly better than having *no data*. Bottom line -- in th FC6 timeframe, any metric gathering will be imperfect, and feel like a hack. So we pick the hack that won't also anger people, and we do it. -- Max Spevack + http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/MaxSpevack + gpg key -- http://spevack.org/max.asc + fingerprint -- CD52 5E72 369B B00D 9E9A 773E 2FDB CB46 5A17 CF21 From kaboom at oobleck.net Thu Oct 5 15:28:47 2006 From: kaboom at oobleck.net (Chris Ricker) Date: Thu, 5 Oct 2006 11:28:47 -0400 (EDT) Subject: [fab] Re: splash page + tracking image example In-Reply-To: References: <1160001132.4193.283.camel@erato.phig.org> <45243C8A.1090804@fedoraproject.org> <1160006611.4193.301.camel@erato.phig.org> <1160061793.31974.9.camel@zod.rchland.ibm.com> Message-ID: On Thu, 5 Oct 2006, Max Spevack wrote: > > Yes, counting IP addresses will give you a metric. I just don't think that > > metric is good for much because you still don't know how many machines > > really have Fedora installed. Is it better than nothing? I don't know. > > It gets you a pile of data, which can be analyzed and from which value can be > extracted. > > It's certainly better than having *no data*. Is wrong data really any better than no data? We already have wrong data ("somewhere between 10 thousand and 10 million, we think") if that's all you're wanting. And we know the proposed counting method (ip-based web hit) will be wrong data as well.... later, chris From markmc34 at verizon.net Thu Oct 5 20:17:48 2006 From: markmc34 at verizon.net (Markus McLaughlin) Date: Thu, 05 Oct 2006 16:17:48 -0400 Subject: Addendum to my first docs list post Message-ID: <33537900-2011-4EA7-9FDB-4590ADB62312@verizon.net> The easiest way to have a Fedora Core Handbook published is through Red Hat Press and through Amazon.com, Barnes & Noble, CompUSA, Overstock.com, and buy.com . This idea just came to me... Mark McLaughlin From markmc34 at verizon.net Thu Oct 5 20:11:03 2006 From: markmc34 at verizon.net (Markus McLaughlin) Date: Thu, 05 Oct 2006 16:11:03 -0400 Subject: Here is my challenge, let's see if we can do it! Message-ID: <1E55154A-EB0B-4DFB-8069-B70DBAE90A04@verizon.net> UBUNTU! This is all I hear and read about these days, every other Linux OS is suffering because of it! And what is worse, Windows Vista is trying to lure people away from Linux altogether. This has to slow down or stop completely. Ubuntu just came out with its first Official Handbook, this is not good for us, Fedora Fans/Programmers. SO! I propose we band together and crank out a $20 Handbook with FC 7 DVD, Red Hat Enterprise Linux 5 Client Demo CD with PDF Intro to RH Enterprise Linux 5 Client/Server, AND a FREE PDF for the next Fedora Core, version 7. To test out what we will write, we should put together a FREE PDF "Handbook" for Fedora Core 6. If that proves successful, we should move forward to Fedora Core 7. FC7 must have the PDF and an order form web site link for the book itself on the DVD release. Half of the proceeds must go to the Red Cross (http:// www.redcross.org) aiding Hurricane Katrina Relief with the other half to pay for blank media for copying the ISO images from the download mirrors. The Official Fedora Handbook - Fedora Core 6 - October 2006 (PDF version generated November 2006) 1. Introduction to Fedora Core 6 2. Installation - Everything explained with color screenshots to illustrate the details. 3. Configuration - How to set up the Applications / Servers / Base / Language Support 4. Exploration - Getting to know the Desktop GUI for both GNOME and KDE. 5. Projects - Different tasks that can be accomplished with the Applications / Add-Ons. 6. Advanced - Learning the Command Line and System Mechanics 7. Future Directions - What is being worked on for Fedora Core 7 8. Introduction to Red Hat Enterprise Linux 5 Client/Server - Moving to the next level 9. Conclusion I would like to be in charge of the Introduction and Conclusion with cool quotes from different sources. This Handbook should be like those "Dummies" books with little insights from the programmers on why they put in this particular code. There should be "side lines" where a lead programmer or Fedora enthusiast talks about WHY they use Fedora Core instead of some other competing Linux OS. It would be wise to have HIGHLIGHTED words in bold, code in Typewriter Font, and references in Italic or in the color blue. Review the Ubuntu Handbook and the previous Fedora Core for Dummies books for references to everything I have mentioned. I can be reached at markmc34 at verizon.net Thank you for your time and attention! Now, let's get to work!!! :D Mark McLaughlin - Writer / Fedora Core User / Mac User / Geekish Dude in Hudson, MA, USA marknetproductionsentrance.blogspot.com From jncp at netcabo.pt Fri Oct 6 12:53:41 2006 From: jncp at netcabo.pt (=?iso-8859-1?q?Jos=E9_Nuno_Coelho_Sanarra_Pires?=) Date: Fri, 6 Oct 2006 13:53:41 +0100 Subject: Brazilian Portuguese Translation for RELEASE NOTES (FC6) In-Reply-To: <200610040559.45104.hugo@devin.com.br> References: <200610040559.45104.hugo@devin.com.br> Message-ID: <200610061353.49188.jncp@netcabo.pt> Em Quarta, 4 de Outubro de 2006 09:59, o Hugo Cisneiros escreveu: Hi! I forgot to notify the translation team yesterday, but the release-notes on 'translate' module were also updated, finished and synced with the 'docs' one, for European Portuguese. Best regards > Hi guys, > > Just to inform you that the release notes for FC6 is now translated to > Brazilian Portuguese and is commited to the CVS (both i18n and > fedora-docs). In this last day, it will be only revision. > > The .po file is on the CVS, and a built draft is available in the following > URL: > > http://www.devin.com.br/eitch/fedora/RELEASE-NOTES-pt_BR/ > > When the revision is completed, I'll inform again. > > Oh, and sorry for being such a lazy ass this time :-) > > Cheers, -- Jos? Nuno Coelho Pires Development Engineer Unidade de Sistemas de Informa??o INESC-INOV Telem?vel: 96 630 61 13 E-Mail: jose.pires at inov.pt -- Jos? Nuno Coelho Pires Development Engineer Unidade de Sistemas de Informa??o INESC-INOV Telem?vel: 96 630 61 13 E-Mail: jose.pires at inov.pt -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 189 bytes Desc: not available URL: From hugo at devin.com.br Fri Oct 6 14:31:30 2006 From: hugo at devin.com.br (Hugo Cisneiros) Date: Fri, 6 Oct 2006 11:31:30 -0300 Subject: Brazilian Portuguese Translation for RELEASE NOTES (FC6) In-Reply-To: <200610061353.49188.jncp@netcabo.pt> References: <200610040559.45104.hugo@devin.com.br> <200610061353.49188.jncp@netcabo.pt> Message-ID: <200610061131.30149.hugo@devin.com.br> On Friday 06 October 2006 09:53, Jos? Nuno Coelho Sanarra Pires wrote: > Em Quarta, 4 de Outubro de 2006 09:59, o Hugo Cisneiros escreveu: > Hi! > > I forgot to notify the translation team yesterday, but the release-notes > on 'translate' module were also updated, finished and synced with the > 'docs' one, for European Portuguese. Oi Jose Nuno :) When we got our hands on the translation files on i18n.redhat.com's CVS yeterday, we realized that it was not finished, but as you said now and announced before that the commit was done in Docs CVS, I took the Docs CVS version and replaced it on i18n.r.c. The status page was showing many entries untranslated, but now it's fine :-) Thanks! -- []'s Eitch http://www.devin.com.br/eitch/ "Talk is cheap. Show me the code." - Linus Torvalds From g.caruso at fedoraserver.org Sat Oct 7 10:22:52 2006 From: g.caruso at fedoraserver.org (g.caruso at fedoraserver.org) Date: Sat, 07 Oct 2006 03:22:52 -0700 Subject: Translation of Installation Notes into Italian Language Message-ID: <20061007032252.de24042903101a4f77687a9d31d0690f.e6d31c3770.wbe@email.secureserver.net> Hi at all. I inform you that the Installation Notes for FC6 (install-guide devel ver 1.34 2006-08-27) is now translated into Italian Language and is commited to the CVS (only i18n). Best regards, Guido.- From kwade at redhat.com Sat Oct 7 15:04:18 2006 From: kwade at redhat.com (Karsten Wade) Date: Sat, 07 Oct 2006 08:04:18 -0700 Subject: Official Fedora Handbook In-Reply-To: <20061007112203.45008.qmail@web33109.mail.mud.yahoo.com> References: <20061007112203.45008.qmail@web33109.mail.mud.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <1160233458.4193.462.camel@erato.phig.org> Note: fedora-docs-list added to the Cc:; please join this list to continue to the discussion. On Sat, 2006-10-07 at 04:22 -0700, Eureka Trek wrote: > Dear Ms Karsten Wade; Just FYI, it is 'Mr.', but I'm not a person who is stuck on formalities, we can drop the title all together and you can just call me 'Karsten'. :) Please do not feel embarrassed at this common mistake; I'm sure others on this list share the confusion, and I'm taking the opportunity to straighten ya'll out. > Back on October 2nd an individual using the handle > "HudsonMan" posted a thread on FedoraForum entitled > "It Is Time For The Official Fedora Handbook!". Here > is the link if you wish to read through the postings > to the thread: > http://www.fedoraforum.org/forum/showthread.php?t=125807 > (the postings under the handle "eureka.trek" are mine) Yes, the same person made a post on the subject on fedora-docs-list, following the suggestion of Rahul. As you requested, I just read through the thread you posted. No one has replied to HudsonMan/Markus McLaughlin on the list mainly because we have been busy getting the release notes ready for FC6. I'm taking some time this morning to reply to you and Markus to keep this great conversation going. I am making my point-by-point reply to you and on the list because I think the effort is best used in keeping the discussion there. I encourage you to join the list (and the project[1]). We also are a very passionate group who take pains to be open to new contributors who may also be new to Linux. Your ideas will be discussed with respect. Our project is one that new Linux and/or Fedora users can join and contribute to very easily; we are a great entry point for becoming a Fedora contributor. :) > The purpose of my correspondence is to make some > general enquiries concerning the issues presented in > the above thread. I hope that you can take the time > to read through the above mentioned thread at > FedoraForum and then address my questions below or to > point me in the proper direction where the answers > might be found. We have discussed, settled, and even addressed many of the points brought up in the fedoraforum.org thread. I'll be happy to bring those together into this discussion, which is what Rahul had in mind in sending folks here. > My questions are: > > 1) Has the Documentation Project taken up the task of > writing an "Official Fedora Handbook"? Yes, most definitely. The format, title, and methods are somewhat different than you and others propose. We are using a mix of proven and cutting-edge community documentation methods. FYI, to settle something at the start, we have traditionally loathed the word 'Official' in a title. It is an overused word in technical publishing and leads to confusion. "The Fedora Handbook" IMHO carries a lot more weight anyway -- short, to the point, impressive. > 2) If the Documentation Project has taken up this task > then where might people go to view it's progress > and/or participate? http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Docs/Drafts The short guides there are rather modular and can fit together into a larger work, once completed. You and all others are welcome and encouraged to participate. Right now, we are focusing on the new-user friendly Desktop User Guide. If you see anything in that draft that is too high level for a new user, you are encouraged to get a Wiki account[2] and fix it. One thing we know from experience, which is reflected in a few posts in the fedoraforum.org thread, is that it is *very* hard to write and maintain an entire book from scratch. For example, in the thread you propose using screenshots for everything. This is a very labor intensive process, prone to error, and makes the resulting work much harder to translate. Writers who get books published through publishers are either full-time writers or otherwise have the time to devote to writing. For a standard book, expect to commit >30 hours per week for 6 months. Or more. Our experience with Fedora contributions is that it is not reasonable or realistic to expect this level of commitment from one or several individuals. Even if someone can start at this level of commitment, keeping it going for 6 months is a lot. Once those 6 months have passed, the resulting book is now 3 to 6 months out of date, referring to the *last* version of Fedora Core, and therefore almost instantly obsolete. This is why we are focused on i) online publishing, and ii) shorter written works that can be grouped together into a manual/handbook. Believe me when I say that all of these points have been thought out and discussed multiple times over the years. We could write up a Wiki page to explain, but it is all in the archives for this list. Just FYI if you think I am too quick with my conclusions. :) To get involved: 1. Join the list, start discussing. That's easy: http://www.redhat.com/mailman/listinfo/fedora-docs-list 2. Follow up on the new writers checklist: http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/DocsProject/NewWriters > 3) If the Documentation Project has not taken up this > task then what is the proper procedure as well as > person(s) to contact for getting the necessary > approvals so that someone/group desiring to take up > this task could rightly place the word "Official" in > the title of such a handbook? Please understand that I am *not* being arrogant in saying that it is unlikely that a random group of people who met on fedoraforum.org are going to produce a full-length book in the manner described. Well, to be balanced, I have to point out that random groups of people have met and done many amazing things, such as producing Linux distributions. But all of this is usually best done by working with existing materials and building from there. It *can* be done from scratch, but that is a much, much harder road to take. This project has specifically been built from the ground-up with the ability to: 1. Get new writers working on shorter works 2. Design such shorter works to fit together into a larger work You can write and edit using the Wiki. All content is published under an open content license, the OPL[3], that allows us to share work with other projects, or let other community members use the work as a basis for their own documenting efforts. Our real problem is a lack of volunteers, not a lack of ideas. My goal in replying to you directly and on this list is to continue trying to attract and help with the efforts of such volunteers. > Thank you for taking the time to read the thread and > address these questions. I look forward to your response. Thanks for your enthusiasm. I hope we are successful at turning the energy into output. [1] http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/DocsProject/NewWriters [2] http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Infrastructure/AccountSystem I apologize for any difficulties in getting the necessary accounts in place, etc. We are trying to make this simpler, but there are real reasons for the few barriers that are in place. Do not hesitate to ask for help in getting your account(s) setup, either on this list or via IRC on irc.freenode.net, #fedora-docs. [3] http://opencontent.org/openpub/ - Karsten -- Karsten Wade, RHCE, 108 Editor ^ Fedora Documentation Project Sr. Developer Relations Mgr. | fedoraproject.org/wiki/DocsProject quaid.108.redhat.com | gpg key: AD0E0C41 ////////////////////////////////// \\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\ -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: signature.asc Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 189 bytes Desc: This is a digitally signed message part URL: From kwade at redhat.com Sat Oct 7 15:55:16 2006 From: kwade at redhat.com (Karsten Wade) Date: Sat, 07 Oct 2006 08:55:16 -0700 Subject: Here is my challenge, let's see if we can do it! In-Reply-To: <1E55154A-EB0B-4DFB-8069-B70DBAE90A04@verizon.net> References: <1E55154A-EB0B-4DFB-8069-B70DBAE90A04@verizon.net> Message-ID: <1160236516.4193.501.camel@erato.phig.org> Sorry for taking a few days to respond. We've been busy this week getting ready for the FC6 release. I responded separately to Eureka Trek. Pardon my brief(er) response to this, I want to keep the discussion going and also get some other work done today. :D On Thu, 2006-10-05 at 16:11 -0400, Markus McLaughlin wrote: > UBUNTU! This is all I hear and read about these days, every other > Linux OS is suffering because of it! And what is worse, Windows > Vista is trying to lure people away from Linux altogether. This has > to slow down or stop completely. I won't agree with you, but that's OK. People are welcome to use Ubuntu or whatever, if that is what they prefer. As far as I am concerned, Ubuntu are "friendlies" in the war on bad software and closed systems. We have different ways of doing things. With 6+ billion people on Earth, we can afford more than one successful Linux distribution. :) By working with a friendly license and open content, we all gain in the same way that pushing changes into the upstream kernel benefits all Linux distributions. > Ubuntu just came out with its first > Official Handbook, this is not good for us, Fedora Fans/Programmers. IIRC, this was published by a regular publisher. You mean this book, right? http://www.amazon.com/Official-Ubuntu-Book-Benjamin-Mako/dp/0132435942/ref=pd_sim_b_1/102-8757914-8963356?ie=UTF8 I happen to know a little bit about how that book was put together. We are prepared to take on that level of effort, but it is going to require volunteer contributors and some level of risk for "real writers" who want to get involved. Make no mistakes here -- for a book to be published, it is going to take planning, work, and editing. It cannot be on the level of the usual writing that I see in most places. > SO! I propose we band together and crank out This is an honest question not meant to insult. Do you have experience writing or publishing books? If you want something that is worth the effort put into it, you cannot simply crank it out. Community documentation is a wonderful idea that works well in practice. For it to have high quality and be useful (accurate, readable, translatable, etc.), it takes *much* more work than you imply. I do not think it is impossible; in fact, with the proper incentive[1], I think it is *very* possible. But we are not going to get there by glossing over the challenges. Those challenges will rise up and bite us at every step if we do not do something to mitigate them at the start and as we proceed. > a $20 Handbook with FC > 7 DVD, Red Hat Enterprise Linux 5 Client Demo CD with PDF Intro to RH > Enterprise Linux 5 Client/Server, AND a FREE PDF for the next Fedora > Core, version 7. I don't understand what having Enterprise Linux in there does, except create confusion. FC7 is going to be six+ months beyond what is in RHEL 5. > To test out what we will write, we should put > together a FREE PDF "Handbook" for Fedora Core 6. If that proves > successful, we should move forward to Fedora Core 7. FC7 must have > the PDF and an order form web site link for the book itself on the > DVD release. Half of the proceeds must go to the Red Cross (http:// > www.redcross.org) aiding Hurricane Katrina Relief with the other half > to pay for blank media for copying the ISO images from the download > mirrors. I don't disagree with the idea of funneling some proceeds into worthy causes. Howeve, relief for damage from hurricane Katrina is very US-centric for such a global distribution. Realize that our user base is *huge* in many other countries where the average person's living situation is like being born into and living your whole life in a Katrina-ravaged zone. I'd recommend that we separate the idea of contributing proceeds into some kind of survey or vote that draws opinions from across Fedora. I'm sure there are other opinions here. > The Official Fedora Handbook - Fedora Core 6 - October 2006 Please see my other message about the word "Official" in titles. Let's just avoid it. :) > (PDF version generated November 2006) Do you really think we can write a book in the next 30 days? I am not trying to pop your balloon. But there is a huge gap between enthusiasm and getting the work done. I've seen a lot of people who think good or sufficient documentation can be "cranked out" in a few days. Figure 8 hours per page in research, writing, fact checking, technical and grammar editing, and publishing work. For one person, this is equivalent to about 800 hours for a 100 page book. With an average of about 2000 hours of worktime in a year (40 hours per week), that is almost six months to complete. When working on a book with other people, there is more overhead. Coordination, work to normalize the voice/writing style so that it is not jarring to the reader when they switch between sections written by different people, etc. Figure on adding about 2 hours per page for this management coordination. Naturally, having more people on the project helps divide that work, but at an increased cost of coordination. Taking the 10 hours per page estimate for five dedicated writer/editors: 10 hours x 100 pages = 1000 hours 1000 hours / 5 = 200 hours per person 200 hours = 5 weeks of fulltime (40 hours/week) work Do you have five people who can dedicate that much time between now and November? I'm sad to say that this project does not have that level of resources. And the smaller you divide the 1000 hours by people, the higher the overhead rate. 10 people might require 11 hours per page, etc. Then you have the time to coordinate with people outside of the writing project. You mention quotes from developers, etc. There is also the need for a technical and usability edit from outside of the core group. All of this has to be coordinated in real time, meaning that an 8 hour work day does not necessarily equal 8 hours of schedule completed. On average, you can figure about 6 hours of real writing work for a writer's 8 hour day, with that 2 hours spent on email coordination, etc. Some of this is figured into the overhead I specified, but to be honest, you can't quantify all of it. We'll need an additional buffer in the estimate to cover that. Again, I'm not trying to say your idea is overall impossible. I'm pointing out where reality intercedes with well laid plans. :) > 1. Introduction to Fedora Core 6 > 2. Installation - Everything explained with color screenshots to > illustrate the details. > 3. Configuration - How to set up the Applications / Servers / Base / > Language Support > 4. Exploration - Getting to know the Desktop GUI for both GNOME and KDE. > 5. Projects - Different tasks that can be accomplished with the > Applications / Add-Ons. > 6. Advanced - Learning the Command Line and System Mechanics > 7. Future Directions - What is being worked on for Fedora Core 7 > 8. Introduction to Red Hat Enterprise Linux 5 Client/Server - Moving > to the next level > 9. Conclusion > > I would like to be in charge of the Introduction and Conclusion with > cool quotes from different sources. This Handbook should be like > those "Dummies" books with little insights from the programmers on > why they put in this particular code. There should be "side lines" > where a > lead programmer or Fedora enthusiast talks about WHY they use Fedora > Core instead of > some other competing Linux OS. It would be wise to have HIGHLIGHTED > words in bold, > code in Typewriter Font, and references in Italic or in the color > blue. Review the Ubuntu Handbook and the previous Fedora Core for > Dummies books for references to everything > I have mentioned. Have you had the opportunity to look into what the Fedora Documentation Project has in terms of standards and processes? I suggest you start here: http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/DocsProject/NewWriters And look here: http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Docs/Drafts and here: http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/WikiEditing#Marking_Technical_Terms > I can be reached at markmc34 at verizon.net Please join this mailing list if you haven't already so we can continue these discussions and begin the hard work. - Karsten [1] My thoughts on why it is worth it to individuals to contribute/volunteer to open content/community documentation efforts: http://iquaid.livejournal.com/13095.html -- Karsten Wade, RHCE, 108 Editor ^ Fedora Documentation Project Sr. Developer Relations Mgr. | fedoraproject.org/wiki/DocsProject quaid.108.redhat.com | gpg key: AD0E0C41 ////////////////////////////////// \\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\ -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: signature.asc Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 189 bytes Desc: This is a digitally signed message part URL: From docs-list at fedoralinks.org Sat Oct 7 17:00:01 2006 From: docs-list at fedoralinks.org (Robert 'Bob' Jensen) Date: Sat, 07 Oct 2006 12:00:01 -0500 Subject: Missing Translations Message-ID: <4527DD11.6040304@fedoralinks.org> Several people have asked about getting partial translations or late translations in to the fedora-release-notes package. While I appreciate the effort that many people have put forth the facts are as follows. I set the standard at 90% or better to be included in the release notes package. I am of the opinion that an incomplete translation is not acceptable. While it would be nice to include everyone's attempt we have to draw the line some where. Is one line enough? I think we all agree that it is not. Is 50% enough? I personally do not think so. We are trying to have a professional looking finished product, for this at times I think even 90% is a bit to low. What can we do better? More translators. If you need more help with your language please email me and let me know, I will make some personal appeals to members of the Fedora community and the ambassadors project to get you help. Some of these people may not have any translation experience but it will be a chance for you to mentor someone and get some help at the same time. More time for translation. It is our intent to allow for 10 days from the freeze to the need for translations for FC7. This will give the translation team an additional 3 days over what they have had in the past. Why? Because getting our release notes in every language is my personal goal. Yes 71 languages. I would like to reach one half way to this goal by FC10. Other options? The release notes are now part of a standalone package called "fedora-release-notes" one of the main advantages is that we can push out updates through out the life of a release. So while your translation will not be on the ISO it can go out as part of an update post release as I understand it. Also we have what we call the "web only" errata of the release notes, this in the past has had all of the last minute additions to the release-notes and also the translations that have come in late. While we have rebuilt our package "fedora-release-notes" to remove the de translation that was included in error my understanding is we should not be adding anything to it at this time even with the release delay. I will verify this for clarification. If the situation of adding things to the package will be allowed I am sorry but the 90% rule must stay. I am sure that if we can get a substantial number of translations for inclusion in the ISO we will have a better chance of getting them added. Thank you for voicing your opinion and asking "why?" Your work and input in the process is valuable to us. I wish the situation were different. Bob -- Robert 'Bob' Jensen * * http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/BobJensen gpg fingerprint: F9F4 7243 4243 0043 2C45 97AF E8A4 C3AE 42EB 0BC6 Fedora Docs Projects FDSCo http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/DocsProject From stickster at gmail.com Sat Oct 7 19:21:08 2006 From: stickster at gmail.com (Paul W. Frields) Date: Sat, 07 Oct 2006 15:21:08 -0400 Subject: docbookhtml2php.py Message-ID: <1160248868.3024.51.camel@localhost.localdomain> I think this new version fixes some of the problems with the one we've used previously. However, I'd like others to eyeball it and let me know if they find problems with any of their inputs. Best way to test it, of course, is to use it in a web sandbox with the SOP for fedora.redhat.com publishing. Yes, I know that will go away. One day soon. Some day. Eventually. :-) Until then, try this out and let me know if you see anything borken. -- Paul W. Frields, RHCE http://paul.frields.org/ gpg fingerprint: 3DA6 A0AC 6D58 FEC4 0233 5906 ACDB C937 BD11 3717 Fedora Project Board: http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Board Fedora Docs Project: http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/DocsProject -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: docbookhtml2php2.py Type: text/x-python Size: 2526 bytes Desc: not available URL: -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: signature.asc Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 189 bytes Desc: This is a digitally signed message part URL: From markmc34 at verizon.net Sun Oct 8 20:39:30 2006 From: markmc34 at verizon.net (Markus McLaughlin) Date: Sun, 08 Oct 2006 16:39:30 -0400 Subject: In regards to "Introducing Fedora" as suggested.... Message-ID: <1A1B03BF-1F2B-435C-AF22-DD3B6A943ACA@verizon.net> There are many ways to introduce Fedora Core so I am asking for suggestions on how best to do so, I want to do it so it's not too dry or too "Microsoft"-like, somewhere in-between is what I had in mind with a funny Dilbert-style image on the front. What is the best FC- supported Screen Capture Tool so I can provide the Opening Desktop Screen of FC6? Based upon what I write for the Introduction, what would be an appropriate Conclusion? I would like to strongly suggest that fedoraforum.org be the unofficial Fedora Handbook site where all the Fedora web sites submit "How-tos" and Solutions into one single forum known as "The Fedora Handbook." The purpose of this is for those who aren't busy on the Documentation Project gather what has already been written and have it combined on the fedoraforum "Handbook" Site and once that is successful, someone or some team will have a completed PDF ready 3 months before the next FC release. It is just a suggestion, nothing more.... Mark McLaughlin - marknetproductionsentrance.blogspot.com From stickster at gmail.com Sun Oct 8 21:39:01 2006 From: stickster at gmail.com (Paul W. Frields) Date: Sun, 08 Oct 2006 17:39:01 -0400 Subject: In regards to "Introducing Fedora" as suggested.... In-Reply-To: <1A1B03BF-1F2B-435C-AF22-DD3B6A943ACA@verizon.net> References: <1A1B03BF-1F2B-435C-AF22-DD3B6A943ACA@verizon.net> Message-ID: <1160343541.3024.60.camel@localhost.localdomain> On Sun, 2006-10-08 at 16:39 -0400, Markus McLaughlin wrote: > There are many ways to introduce Fedora Core so I am asking for > suggestions on how best to do so, I want to do it so it's not too dry > or too "Microsoft"-like, somewhere in-between is what I had in mind > with a funny Dilbert-style image on the front. What is the best FC- > supported Screen Capture Tool so I can provide the Opening Desktop > Screen of FC6? Based upon what I write > for the Introduction, what would be an appropriate Conclusion? You can get screencaps by using PrtSc on your keyboard, or Alt+PrtSc to get just a single (current) running application window. The GConf key /apps/gnome-screenshot/include_border (a boolean) will allow you to choose whether you want window decoration in the latter case. > I would like to strongly suggest that fedoraforum.org be the > unofficial Fedora Handbook site where all the Fedora web sites submit > "How-tos" and Solutions into one single forum known as "The Fedora > Handbook." The purpose of this is for those who aren't busy on the > Documentation Project gather what has already been written and have > it combined on the fedoraforum "Handbook" Site and once that is > successful, someone or some team will have a completed PDF ready 3 > months before the next FC release. It is just a suggestion, nothing > more.... I vehemently disagree. The whole point of the existing Docs space on the wiki, and the CVS repository for the FDP, is to gather these materials. Putting them elsewhere causes unnecessary process fragmentation and a drain on already scarce resources. We are trying to bring more people *into* the FDP, so the best way to do that is to encourage them to use our existing resources here. Licensing and maintaining overall project standards is also a concern. We have a really big tent here, with plenty of ice-cold lemonade, water, cookies, and BBQ for all. Let's try to make use of what we have first! -- Paul W. Frields, RHCE http://paul.frields.org/ gpg fingerprint: 3DA6 A0AC 6D58 FEC4 0233 5906 ACDB C937 BD11 3717 Fedora Project Board: http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Board Fedora Docs Project: http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/DocsProject -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: signature.asc Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 189 bytes Desc: This is a digitally signed message part URL: From kwade at redhat.com Sun Oct 8 21:54:01 2006 From: kwade at redhat.com (Karsten Wade) Date: Sun, 08 Oct 2006 14:54:01 -0700 Subject: small makes big Message-ID: <1160344442.4193.519.camel@erato.phig.org> Just a note to be clear, since at least Dimitris had some questions about the intent here. quaid, what I wanted to say (after re-reading the discussions) is that, indeed it might be difficult to handle a huge file. But, it might not be really difficult to coordinate the docs (cross-links, no duplicated content) so that at a point they might get bundled together. What I didn't understand is whether you would be interested in such an approach.. Small, indivitual docs that complement each other and that could make one whole, self-contained at some point. That is exactly what we want here. Small, individual documents that are: * Written in a consistent style; * Follow standard conventions; * Have complementary topics; * Stand alone, yet * Fit into a whole One outcome of this should be a Fedora (Beginners) Handbook, a comprehensive guide to all things for new to Linux/new to Fedora users. A big challenge here is having a document self-identify with a certain experience level of user, and then *keep all material within that level*. For example, if we decide beginners really need minimal CLI interaction, then anything that is written to fit into a beginners handbook needs to follow that convention. Before we begin a break-out group to discuss and decide on all this separately, lets explore this on-list a little longer. - Karsten -- Karsten Wade, RHCE, 108 Editor ^ Fedora Documentation Project Sr. Developer Relations Mgr. | fedoraproject.org/wiki/DocsProject quaid.108.redhat.com | gpg key: AD0E0C41 ////////////////////////////////// \\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\ -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: signature.asc Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 189 bytes Desc: This is a digitally signed message part URL: From kwade at redhat.com Sun Oct 8 22:03:30 2006 From: kwade at redhat.com (Karsten Wade) Date: Sun, 08 Oct 2006 15:03:30 -0700 Subject: In regards to "Introducing Fedora" as suggested.... In-Reply-To: <1160343541.3024.60.camel@localhost.localdomain> References: <1A1B03BF-1F2B-435C-AF22-DD3B6A943ACA@verizon.net> <1160343541.3024.60.camel@localhost.localdomain> Message-ID: <1160345010.4193.527.camel@erato.phig.org> On Sun, 2006-10-08 at 17:39 -0400, Paul W. Frields wrote: > On Sun, 2006-10-08 at 16:39 -0400, Markus McLaughlin wrote: > > I would like to strongly suggest that fedoraforum.org be the > > unofficial Fedora Handbook site where all the Fedora web sites submit > > "How-tos" and Solutions into one single forum known as "The Fedora > > Handbook." The purpose of this is for those who aren't busy on the > > Documentation Project gather what has already been written and have > > it combined on the fedoraforum "Handbook" Site and once that is > > successful, someone or some team will have a completed PDF ready 3 > > months before the next FC release. It is just a suggestion, nothing > > more.... > > I vehemently disagree. ... I agree with your disagreement, but I will add some additional notes that address the future of possibilities. * Some people are not going to work on the formal Fedora Project, for any number of reasons * Our processes and tools should be exportable and usable outside of the Fedora Project The Fedora Unity project exemplifies this. They have licensing and tools that are the same as Fedora Project, so any content they produce can be easily shifted into formal Fedora space. *And* vice-versa, they can receive anything from formal Fedora space. Fedora Extras has this potential for outside groups to maintain their own build systems that mirror the FE systems, making it easier to migrate packages and patches and such between systems. I would like to see us move toward being able to share content across the formal and informal Fedora spaces. That is something we can work toward. In the meantime, as Paul says, if we want to get something done currently, it is probably best to have all the work happen under one umbrella. Please. :) - Karsten -- Karsten Wade, RHCE, 108 Editor ^ Fedora Documentation Project Sr. Developer Relations Mgr. | fedoraproject.org/wiki/DocsProject quaid.108.redhat.com | gpg key: AD0E0C41 ////////////////////////////////// \\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\ -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: signature.asc Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 189 bytes Desc: This is a digitally signed message part URL: From kwade at redhat.com Sun Oct 8 22:12:30 2006 From: kwade at redhat.com (Karsten Wade) Date: Sun, 08 Oct 2006 15:12:30 -0700 Subject: In regards to "Introducing Fedora" as suggested.... In-Reply-To: <1A1B03BF-1F2B-435C-AF22-DD3B6A943ACA@verizon.net> References: <1A1B03BF-1F2B-435C-AF22-DD3B6A943ACA@verizon.net> Message-ID: <1160345550.4193.538.camel@erato.phig.org> On Sun, 2006-10-08 at 16:39 -0400, Markus McLaughlin wrote: > There are many ways to introduce Fedora Core so I am asking for > suggestions on how best to do so, I want to do it so it's not too dry > or too "Microsoft"-like, somewhere in-between is what I had in mind > with a funny Dilbert-style image on the front. Agreed that we want to strike a tone that is neither too formal nor too informal. Writing that is too casual causes distrust in the reader. Too formal doesn't sound human ... although it does translate easier! For you, I'd recommend trying for slightly more formality, and see how that sounds. Try to avoid the second-person pronoun, especially where it forces you to add extra words: "You can right-click on the desktop background to get a context menu ..." "Right-click on the desktop background to get a context menu ..." The second is more directive, which is reassuring. It shows what is happening right in front of the user, rather than what "will happen" or what "can happen". The Introduction, being not about how-to fare but more what-is, do some exploring and see what sounds right, and we can iterate from there. > What is the best FC- > supported Screen Capture Tool so I can provide the Opening Desktop > Screen of FC6? Based upon what I write > for the Introduction, what would be an appropriate Conclusion? Perhaps we should base an answer to that on what you actually do write? > I would like to strongly suggest that fedoraforum.org be the > unofficial Fedora Handbook site where all the Fedora web sites submit > "How-tos" and Solutions into one single forum known as "The Fedora > Handbook." The purpose of this is for those who aren't busy on the > Documentation Project gather what has already been written and have > it combined on the fedoraforum "Handbook" Site and once that is > successful, someone or some team will have a completed PDF ready 3 > months before the next FC release. It is just a suggestion, nothing > more.... I think you can follow the same theory, just do it on the fedoraproject.org Wiki instead, such as in the Docs/Drafts/Handbook namespace. The GUI editor in the upcoming update for the Wiki is going to make it as easy to edit as the fedoraforum.org editor. The advantage here is that we have tools and processes for converting from the Wiki into DocBook XML. We need that XML to get translated and output multiple formats such as HTML, PDF, RTF, TXT, Braille, etc. :) Another advantage is that many of us watch the changes in the Wiki. Editors can help get on top of style changes and suggestions early. A forum is not conducive to editing and change tracking the way a Wiki is. cheers - Karsten -- Karsten Wade, RHCE, 108 Editor ^ Fedora Documentation Project Sr. Developer Relations Mgr. | fedoraproject.org/wiki/DocsProject quaid.108.redhat.com | gpg key: AD0E0C41 ////////////////////////////////// \\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\ -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: signature.asc Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 189 bytes Desc: This is a digitally signed message part URL: From dimitris at glezos.com Sun Oct 8 22:24:18 2006 From: dimitris at glezos.com (Dimitris Glezos) Date: Sun, 08 Oct 2006 23:24:18 +0100 Subject: In regards to "Introducing Fedora" as suggested.... In-Reply-To: <1160345550.4193.538.camel@erato.phig.org> References: <1A1B03BF-1F2B-435C-AF22-DD3B6A943ACA@verizon.net> <1160345550.4193.538.camel@erato.phig.org> Message-ID: <45297A92.9070005@glezos.com> O/H Karsten Wade ??????: > On Sun, 2006-10-08 at 16:39 -0400, Markus McLaughlin wrote: >> There are many ways to introduce Fedora Core so I am asking for >> suggestions on how best to do so, I want to do it so it's not too dry >> or too "Microsoft"-like, somewhere in-between is what I had in mind >> with a funny Dilbert-style image on the front. > > Agreed that we want to strike a tone that is neither too formal nor too > informal. Writing that is too casual causes distrust in the reader. > Too formal doesn't sound human ... although it does translate easier! > > For you, I'd recommend trying for slightly more formality, and see how > that sounds. Try to avoid the second-person pronoun, especially where > it forces you to add extra words: > > "You can right-click on the desktop background to get a context > menu ..." > "Right-click on the desktop background to get a context menu ..." > > The second is more directive, which is reassuring. It shows what is > happening right in front of the user, rather than what "will happen" or > what "can happen". > > The Introduction, being not about how-to fare but more what-is, do some > exploring and see what sounds right, and we can iterate from there. > >> What is the best FC- >> supported Screen Capture Tool so I can provide the Opening Desktop >> Screen of FC6? Based upon what I write >> for the Introduction, what would be an appropriate Conclusion? > > Perhaps we should base an answer to that on what you actually do write? > >> I would like to strongly suggest that fedoraforum.org be the >> unofficial Fedora Handbook site where all the Fedora web sites submit >> "How-tos" and Solutions into one single forum known as "The Fedora >> Handbook." The purpose of this is for those who aren't busy on the >> Documentation Project gather what has already been written and have >> it combined on the fedoraforum "Handbook" Site and once that is >> successful, someone or some team will have a completed PDF ready 3 >> months before the next FC release. It is just a suggestion, nothing >> more.... > > I think you can follow the same theory, just do it on the > fedoraproject.org Wiki instead, such as in the Docs/Drafts/Handbook > namespace. The GUI editor in the upcoming update for the Wiki is going > to make it as easy to edit as the fedoraforum.org editor. > > The advantage here is that we have tools and processes for converting > from the Wiki into DocBook XML. We need that XML to get translated and > output multiple formats such as HTML, PDF, RTF, TXT, Braille, etc. :) > > Another advantage is that many of us watch the changes in the Wiki. > Editors can help get on top of style changes and suggestions early. A > forum is not conducive to editing and change tracking the way a Wiki is. +1 to all points Karsten and Paul raised. You will be *amazed* on how much the docs guys will help you when you get this started. Trust me, I've been there and these guys rock. If you feel `Docs/Drafts/Handbook` is too formal/watched for your draft ideas, you could put them into your own wiki space, under `MarkusMcLaughlin/DocIdeas` for example and move it into the Docs space when and if you feel so. -d -- Dimitris Glezos Jabber ID: glezos at jabber.org, GPG: 0xA5A04C3B http://dimitris.glezos.com/ "He who gives up functionality for ease of use loses both and deserves neither." (Anonymous) -- From nikosx at gmail.com Sun Oct 8 22:28:05 2006 From: nikosx at gmail.com (Nikos Charonitakis) Date: Mon, 9 Oct 2006 01:28:05 +0300 Subject: Problem with a localized html version of FC6 release notes Message-ID: <9366c3f50610081528x16906b20l83d05f3f7412ac@mail.gmail.com> In a rawhide system with Greek locale there is a report that when a user clicks on release notes link (welcome page) an English version of release notes appears. Although there is a html file containing Greek release notes, FireFox opens the wrong file... Is this a problem with other locales or Greek specific? Can we do something? Nikos From cranston_tom at asapchoice.com Sun Oct 8 23:12:18 2006 From: cranston_tom at asapchoice.com (Thomas w. Cranston) Date: Sun, 08 Oct 2006 18:12:18 -0500 Subject: In regards to "Introducing Fedora" as suggested.... In-Reply-To: <45297A92.9070005@glezos.com> References: <1A1B03BF-1F2B-435C-AF22-DD3B6A943ACA@verizon.net> <1160345550.4193.538.camel@erato.phig.org> <45297A92.9070005@glezos.com> Message-ID: <452985D2.9060405@asapchoice.com> Dimitris Glezos wrote: >O/H Karsten Wade ??????: > > >>On Sun, 2006-10-08 at 16:39 -0400, Markus McLaughlin wrote: >> >> >>>There are many ways to introduce Fedora Core so I am asking for >>>suggestions on how best to do so, I want to do it so it's not too dry >>>or too "Microsoft"-like, somewhere in-between is what I had in mind >>>with a funny Dilbert-style image on the front. >>> >>> >>Agreed that we want to strike a tone that is neither too formal nor too >>informal. Writing that is too casual causes distrust in the reader. >>Too formal doesn't sound human ... although it does translate easier! >> >>For you, I'd recommend trying for slightly more formality, and see how >>that sounds. Try to avoid the second-person pronoun, especially where >>it forces you to add extra words: >> >>"You can right-click on the desktop background to get a context >>menu ..." >>"Right-click on the desktop background to get a context menu ..." >> >>The second is more directive, which is reassuring. It shows what is >>happening right in front of the user, rather than what "will happen" or >>what "can happen". >> >>The Introduction, being not about how-to fare but more what-is, do some >>exploring and see what sounds right, and we can iterate from there. >> >> >> >>>What is the best FC- >>>supported Screen Capture Tool so I can provide the Opening Desktop >>>Screen of FC6? Based upon what I write >>>for the Introduction, what would be an appropriate Conclusion? >>> >>> >>Perhaps we should base an answer to that on what you actually do write? >> >> >> >>>I would like to strongly suggest that fedoraforum.org be the >>>unofficial Fedora Handbook site where all the Fedora web sites submit >>>"How-tos" and Solutions into one single forum known as "The Fedora >>>Handbook." The purpose of this is for those who aren't busy on the >>>Documentation Project gather what has already been written and have >>>it combined on the fedoraforum "Handbook" Site and once that is >>>successful, someone or some team will have a completed PDF ready 3 >>>months before the next FC release. It is just a suggestion, nothing >>>more.... >>> >>> >>I think you can follow the same theory, just do it on the >>fedoraproject.org Wiki instead, such as in the Docs/Drafts/Handbook >>namespace. The GUI editor in the upcoming update for the Wiki is going >>to make it as easy to edit as the fedoraforum.org editor. >> >>The advantage here is that we have tools and processes for converting >>from the Wiki into DocBook XML. We need that XML to get translated and >>output multiple formats such as HTML, PDF, RTF, TXT, Braille, etc. :) >> >>Another advantage is that many of us watch the changes in the Wiki. >>Editors can help get on top of style changes and suggestions early. A >>forum is not conducive to editing and change tracking the way a Wiki is. >> >> > >+1 to all points Karsten and Paul raised. > >You will be *amazed* on how much the docs guys will help you when you get this >started. Trust me, I've been there and these guys rock. > >If you feel `Docs/Drafts/Handbook` is too formal/watched for your draft ideas, >you could put them into your own wiki space, under `MarkusMcLaughlin/DocIdeas` >for example and move it into the Docs space when and if you feel so. > >-d > > > > Take a look at "The Complete PD Maintenance Guide" by Mark Minasi for an example of good writing. I got it when I had to fix my first computer. It's about 1500 pages long. I read straight thru it. It was a good read. It covered just about everything. To bad Minasi does not write Linux stuff. From kwade at redhat.com Mon Oct 9 15:54:43 2006 From: kwade at redhat.com (Karsten Wade) Date: Mon, 09 Oct 2006 08:54:43 -0700 Subject: Problem with a localized html version of FC6 release notes In-Reply-To: <9366c3f50610081528x16906b20l83d05f3f7412ac@mail.gmail.com> References: <9366c3f50610081528x16906b20l83d05f3f7412ac@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <1160409283.27180.16.camel@erato.phig.org> On Mon, 2006-10-09 at 01:28 +0300, Nikos Charonitakis wrote: > In a rawhide system with Greek locale there is a report that when a > user clicks on release notes link (welcome page) an English version of > release notes appears. > Although there is a html file containing Greek release notes, FireFox > opens the wrong file... > Is this a problem with other locales or Greek specific? > Can we do something? Paul may correct me here, but this is what I think is happening. We were *not* able to make an 'adaptive index', meaning, one that would detect the browser's language and load the localized welcome/homepage. Instead we have included a paragraph in English with links to all localized versions of the release notes. Unfortunately, I forgot to uncomment this section before sending the release notes off as a release candidate earlier this week. This has been fixed in CVS and should appear in subsequent builds of the package. It certainly is going to appear in the ISO. This whole situation is not optimal, but it is what we could do given the time available. :) - Karsten -- Karsten Wade, RHCE, 108 Editor ^ Fedora Documentation Project Sr. Developer Relations Mgr. | fedoraproject.org/wiki/DocsProject quaid.108.redhat.com | gpg key: AD0E0C41 ////////////////////////////////// \\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\ -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: signature.asc Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 189 bytes Desc: This is a digitally signed message part URL: From dimitris at glezos.com Mon Oct 9 16:22:56 2006 From: dimitris at glezos.com (Dimitris Glezos) Date: Mon, 09 Oct 2006 17:22:56 +0100 Subject: Problem with a localized html version of FC6 release notes In-Reply-To: <1160409283.27180.16.camel@erato.phig.org> References: <9366c3f50610081528x16906b20l83d05f3f7412ac@mail.gmail.com> <1160409283.27180.16.camel@erato.phig.org> Message-ID: <452A7760.8080603@glezos.com> Karsten Wade wrote: > On Mon, 2006-10-09 at 01:28 +0300, Nikos Charonitakis wrote: >> In a rawhide system with Greek locale there is a report that when a >> user clicks on release notes link (welcome page) an English version of >> release notes appears. >> Although there is a html file containing Greek release notes, FireFox >> opens the wrong file... >> Is this a problem with other locales or Greek specific? >> Can we do something? > > Paul may correct me here, but this is what I think is happening. > > We were *not* able to make an 'adaptive index', meaning, one that would > detect the browser's language and load the localized welcome/homepage. > > Instead we have included a paragraph in English with links to all > localized versions of the release notes. Karsten, I think it would be a good idea to include a similar paragraph in english with links to all localized versions *of the splash page* too. We have these pages localized, so why not give the user the choice (preferably, at the top of the page) to view them? -d > Unfortunately, I forgot to uncomment this section before sending the > release notes off as a release candidate earlier this week. This has > been fixed in CVS and should appear in subsequent builds of the package. > It certainly is going to appear in the ISO. > > This whole situation is not optimal, but it is what we could do given > the time available. :) > > - Karsten > -- Dimitris Glezos Jabber ID: glezos at jabber.org, PGP: 0xA5A04C3B http://dimitris.glezos.com/ "He who gives up functionality for ease of use loses both and deserves neither." (Anonymous) -- From sundaram at fedoraproject.org Mon Oct 9 16:30:04 2006 From: sundaram at fedoraproject.org (Rahul Sundaram) Date: Mon, 09 Oct 2006 22:00:04 +0530 Subject: Default home page - Impressive! In-Reply-To: <45293DD2.1060500@insight.rr.com> References: <45293DD2.1060500@insight.rr.com> Message-ID: <452A790C.6050200@fedoraproject.org> Jim Cornette wrote: > I just noticed the default home page. I like the looks of it and the > links and categories seem to be what would help a user find helpful > material. > Great job! > Jim Thanks for the feedback. Rahul From kwade at redhat.com Mon Oct 9 16:34:08 2006 From: kwade at redhat.com (Karsten Wade) Date: Mon, 09 Oct 2006 09:34:08 -0700 Subject: Problem with a localized html version of FC6 release notes In-Reply-To: <452A7760.8080603@glezos.com> References: <9366c3f50610081528x16906b20l83d05f3f7412ac@mail.gmail.com> <1160409283.27180.16.camel@erato.phig.org> <452A7760.8080603@glezos.com> Message-ID: <1160411648.27180.19.camel@erato.phig.org> On Mon, 2006-10-09 at 17:22 +0100, Dimitris Glezos wrote: > I think it would be a good idea to include a similar paragraph in > english with links to all localized versions *of the splash page* too. D'oh! That would have been a good idea. :) Do you feel like fixing the page to do that in CVS? Seems like a bug in the RC notes to not have such a link. :) Maybe at the top of the page? - Karsten > We have these pages localized, so why not give the user the choice > (preferably, at the top of the page) to view them? > > -d > > > Unfortunately, I forgot to uncomment this section before sending the > > release notes off as a release candidate earlier this week. This has > > been fixed in CVS and should appear in subsequent builds of the package. > > It certainly is going to appear in the ISO. > > > > This whole situation is not optimal, but it is what we could do given > > the time available. :) > > > > - Karsten > > > > > -- > Dimitris Glezos > Jabber ID: glezos at jabber.org, PGP: 0xA5A04C3B > http://dimitris.glezos.com/ > > "He who gives up functionality for ease of use > loses both and deserves neither." (Anonymous) > -- > -- Karsten Wade, RHCE, 108 Editor ^ Fedora Documentation Project Sr. Developer Relations Mgr. | fedoraproject.org/wiki/DocsProject quaid.108.redhat.com | gpg key: AD0E0C41 ////////////////////////////////// \\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\ -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: signature.asc Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 189 bytes Desc: This is a digitally signed message part URL: From stickster at gmail.com Mon Oct 9 19:34:25 2006 From: stickster at gmail.com (Paul W. Frields) Date: Mon, 09 Oct 2006 15:34:25 -0400 Subject: Problem with a localized html version of FC6 release notes In-Reply-To: <1160411648.27180.19.camel@erato.phig.org> References: <9366c3f50610081528x16906b20l83d05f3f7412ac@mail.gmail.com> <1160409283.27180.16.camel@erato.phig.org> <452A7760.8080603@glezos.com> <1160411648.27180.19.camel@erato.phig.org> Message-ID: <1160422465.4234.0.camel@localhost.localdomain> On Mon, 2006-10-09 at 09:34 -0700, Karsten Wade wrote: > On Mon, 2006-10-09 at 17:22 +0100, Dimitris Glezos wrote: > > > I think it would be a good idea to include a similar paragraph in > > english with links to all localized versions *of the splash page* too. > > D'oh! That would have been a good idea. :) > > Do you feel like fixing the page to do that in CVS? Seems like a bug in > the RC notes to not have such a link. :) Maybe at the top of the page? I think I have this fixed. Should be in the ISO! -- Paul W. Frields, RHCE http://paul.frields.org/ gpg fingerprint: 3DA6 A0AC 6D58 FEC4 0233 5906 ACDB C937 BD11 3717 Fedora Project Board: http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Board Fedora Docs Project: http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/DocsProject -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: signature.asc Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 189 bytes Desc: This is a digitally signed message part URL: From dimitris at glezos.com Mon Oct 9 19:58:14 2006 From: dimitris at glezos.com (Dimitris Glezos) Date: Mon, 09 Oct 2006 20:58:14 +0100 Subject: Problem with a localized html version of FC6 release notes In-Reply-To: <1160422465.4234.0.camel@localhost.localdomain> References: <9366c3f50610081528x16906b20l83d05f3f7412ac@mail.gmail.com> <1160409283.27180.16.camel@erato.phig.org> <452A7760.8080603@glezos.com> <1160411648.27180.19.camel@erato.phig.org> <1160422465.4234.0.camel@localhost.localdomain> Message-ID: <452AA9D6.9010201@glezos.com> Paul W. Frields wrote: > On Mon, 2006-10-09 at 09:34 -0700, Karsten Wade wrote: >> On Mon, 2006-10-09 at 17:22 +0100, Dimitris Glezos wrote: >> >>> I think it would be a good idea to include a similar paragraph in >>> english with links to all localized versions *of the splash page* too. >> D'oh! That would have been a good idea. :) >> >> Do you feel like fixing the page to do that in CVS? Seems like a bug in >> the RC notes to not have such a link. :) Maybe at the top of the page? > > I think I have this fixed. Should be in the ISO! Great! Thanks Paul. Hopefully after FC6 I will have time to investigate more the adaptive index issue. I have some ideas, like storing the user's preference in a cookie, since Firefox doesn't honor us with properly returning the user's locale. -d -- Dimitris Glezos Jabber ID: glezos at jabber.org, PGP: 0xA5A04C3B http://dimitris.glezos.com/ "He who gives up functionality for ease of use loses both and deserves neither." (Anonymous) -- From markmc34 at verizon.net Mon Oct 9 22:53:01 2006 From: markmc34 at verizon.net (Markus McLaughlin) Date: Mon, 09 Oct 2006 18:53:01 -0400 Subject: fedora-docs-list Digest, Vol 32, Issue 11 In-Reply-To: <20061009160022.DA993733CF@hormel.redhat.com> References: <20061009160022.DA993733CF@hormel.redhat.com> Message-ID: This is going to be fun, Fedora Core is my favourite OS from all the ones I tried over the years, but I always come back to RH/FC. I mainly write screenplays and prose but I haven't been produced yet so maybe through this Docs project, I will get more recognition from peers and maybe FC will be used more after version 6. I definitely think so. What is the best open source screen capture tool for the MAC? I visited an Open Source MAC Software site, I forget the name of it. Even on a MAC, I try to find open source apps/utilities. I'm applying for Fedora Ambassador next week so I can explore how best to promote FC in my town of Hudson, MA. Mark McLaughlin From dimitris at glezos.com Mon Oct 9 23:43:39 2006 From: dimitris at glezos.com (Dimitris Glezos) Date: Tue, 10 Oct 2006 00:43:39 +0100 Subject: Problem with a localized html version of FC6 release notes In-Reply-To: <1160422465.4234.0.camel@localhost.localdomain> References: <9366c3f50610081528x16906b20l83d05f3f7412ac@mail.gmail.com> <1160409283.27180.16.camel@erato.phig.org> <452A7760.8080603@glezos.com> <1160411648.27180.19.camel@erato.phig.org> <1160422465.4234.0.camel@localhost.localdomain> Message-ID: <452ADEAB.8060803@glezos.com> O/H Paul W. Frields ??????: > On Mon, 2006-10-09 at 09:34 -0700, Karsten Wade wrote: >> On Mon, 2006-10-09 at 17:22 +0100, Dimitris Glezos wrote: >> >>> I think it would be a good idea to include a similar paragraph in >>> english with links to all localized versions *of the splash page* too. >> D'oh! That would have been a good idea. :) >> >> Do you feel like fixing the page to do that in CVS? Seems like a bug in >> the RC notes to not have such a link. :) Maybe at the top of the page? > > I think I have this fixed. Should be in the ISO! BTW. If we have the string "This page is available in Lang1, Lang2, ..." localized and someone follows a link to a language he can't understand, he won't be able to understand the sentence to click his own language link and return back. :) Thankfully, our current context makes this not a problem. Since it is a browser page, he could easily press the browser's Back button, the Home button or even restart the browser. -dim -- Dimitris Glezos Jabber ID: glezos at jabber.org, GPG: 0xA5A04C3B http://dimitris.glezos.com/ "He who gives up functionality for ease of use loses both and deserves neither." (Anonymous) -- From kwade at redhat.com Tue Oct 10 00:12:56 2006 From: kwade at redhat.com (Karsten Wade) Date: Mon, 09 Oct 2006 17:12:56 -0700 Subject: Problem with a localized html version of FC6 release notes In-Reply-To: <452ADEAB.8060803@glezos.com> References: <9366c3f50610081528x16906b20l83d05f3f7412ac@mail.gmail.com> <1160409283.27180.16.camel@erato.phig.org> <452A7760.8080603@glezos.com> <1160411648.27180.19.camel@erato.phig.org> <1160422465.4234.0.camel@localhost.localdomain> <452ADEAB.8060803@glezos.com> Message-ID: <1160439177.27180.124.camel@erato.phig.org> On Tue, 2006-10-10 at 00:43 +0100, Dimitris Glezos wrote: > BTW. If we have the string "This page is available in Lang1, Lang2, ..." > localized and someone follows a link to a language he can't understand, he won't > be able to understand the sentence to click his own language link and return > back. :) > > Thankfully, our current context makes this not a problem. Since it is a browser > page, he could easily press the browser's Back button, the Home button or even > restart the browser. Yeah, we definitely have some usability to polish here. :) Once FC6 is out, we can set a date to do an update for fedora-release-notes and get a whole bag full of stuff fixed or updated: * Add small fixes to RELEASE-NOTES.pot - Colophon - homepage links to lang-specific notes in that language - links back Let's talk about sync'ing the Web-only update and this package update. With all the work we've been doing and the very small number of changes in the Wiki, I'm thinking we might want to post on the Web the same notes as in the ISO, and put all of our energies on producing a single update (package + Web) a few weeks following. - Karsten -- Karsten Wade, RHCE, 108 Editor ^ Fedora Documentation Project Sr. Developer Relations Mgr. | fedoraproject.org/wiki/DocsProject quaid.108.redhat.com | gpg key: AD0E0C41 ////////////////////////////////// \\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\ -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: signature.asc Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 189 bytes Desc: This is a digitally signed message part URL: From dimitris at glezos.com Tue Oct 10 01:03:22 2006 From: dimitris at glezos.com (Dimitris Glezos) Date: Tue, 10 Oct 2006 02:03:22 +0100 Subject: Problem with a localized html version of FC6 release notes In-Reply-To: <1160439177.27180.124.camel@erato.phig.org> References: <9366c3f50610081528x16906b20l83d05f3f7412ac@mail.gmail.com> <1160409283.27180.16.camel@erato.phig.org> <452A7760.8080603@glezos.com> <1160411648.27180.19.camel@erato.phig.org> <1160422465.4234.0.camel@localhost.localdomain> <452ADEAB.8060803@glezos.com> <1160439177.27180.124.camel@erato.phig.org> Message-ID: <452AF15A.3050005@glezos.com> O/H Karsten Wade ??????: > On Tue, 2006-10-10 at 00:43 +0100, Dimitris Glezos wrote: > >> BTW. If we have the string "This page is available in Lang1, Lang2, ..." >> localized and someone follows a link to a language he can't understand, he won't >> be able to understand the sentence to click his own language link and return >> back. :) >> >> Thankfully, our current context makes this not a problem. Since it is a browser >> page, he could easily press the browser's Back button, the Home button or even >> restart the browser. > > Yeah, we definitely have some usability to polish here. :) OK, I *might* have some good news on this, I need to investigate it a bit more: It is proabable that the Firefox2 RPMs will return the correct locale and the adaptive index will work. Yay! > Once FC6 is out, we can set a date to do an update for > fedora-release-notes and get a whole bag full of stuff fixed or updated: > > * Add small fixes to RELEASE-NOTES.pot > - Colophon > - homepage links to lang-specific notes in that language > - links back > > Let's talk about sync'ing the Web-only update and this package update. +1. Since we can update the relnotes package there is no reason to have different versions on the disk and the web. I would even suggest to remove the ISO HTML from the net because couting that we could have 3 (!) versions of the same document hanging around (iso, user, web). Since it is just for reference purposes, we could have it as a downloadable gz file for those who need *that* instead of the updated version. This way we will have only one HTML hanging around: the web/local synced one. -d > > With all the work we've been doing and the very small number of changes > in the Wiki, I'm thinking we might want to post on the Web the same > notes as in the ISO, and put all of our energies on producing a single > update (package + Web) a few weeks following. > > - Karsten > -- Dimitris Glezos Jabber ID: glezos at jabber.org, GPG: 0xA5A04C3B http://dimitris.glezos.com/ "He who gives up functionality for ease of use loses both and deserves neither." (Anonymous) -- From g.caruso at fedoraserver.org Tue Oct 10 21:29:27 2006 From: g.caruso at fedoraserver.org (g.caruso at fedoraserver.org) Date: Tue, 10 Oct 2006 14:29:27 -0700 Subject: Translation of Inst. Guide v. 1.35 into Italian Language, .po and CVS Message-ID: <20061010142927.de24042903101a4f77687a9d31d0690f.00c18ac65f.wbe@email.secureserver.net> Hi at all. I translated Installation Guide v. 1.35 into Italian Guide (completed), and I commit to the CVS (fedora-docs) my it.po and my Makefile. A built is available in the following URL (draft): http://www.fedoraserver.org/files/fedora_po/fedora-install-guide-it/index.html Best Regards, Guido.- From dimitris at glezos.com Wed Oct 11 01:08:03 2006 From: dimitris at glezos.com (Dimitris Glezos) Date: Wed, 11 Oct 2006 02:08:03 +0100 Subject: Problem with a localized html version of FC6 release notes In-Reply-To: <1160409283.27180.16.camel@erato.phig.org> References: <9366c3f50610081528x16906b20l83d05f3f7412ac@mail.gmail.com> <1160409283.27180.16.camel@erato.phig.org> Message-ID: <452C43F3.7010802@glezos.com> O/H Karsten Wade ??????: > On Mon, 2006-10-09 at 01:28 +0300, Nikos Charonitakis wrote: >> In a rawhide system with Greek locale there is a report that when a >> user clicks on release notes link (welcome page) an English version of >> release notes appears. >> Although there is a html file containing Greek release notes, FireFox >> opens the wrong file... >> Is this a problem with other locales or Greek specific? >> Can we do something? > > Paul may correct me here, but this is what I think is happening. > > We were *not* able to make an 'adaptive index', meaning, one that would > detect the browser's language and load the localized welcome/homepage. I have some good news on this front. >From RC2, Firefox 2 returns the correct language depending on the locale and the adaptive index will work as expected. You can try it yourself using the remi RPM, which has some languages loaded (en, de, es, fr, it, ru): http://remi.collet.free.fr/index.php?2006/10/09/212-firefox-2-rc2 Thanks to Kostas Papadimas for the tip on `fedora-trans-el`. -d > > Instead we have included a paragraph in English with links to all > localized versions of the release notes. > > Unfortunately, I forgot to uncomment this section before sending the > release notes off as a release candidate earlier this week. This has > been fixed in CVS and should appear in subsequent builds of the package. > It certainly is going to appear in the ISO. > > This whole situation is not optimal, but it is what we could do given > the time available. :) > > - Karsten > -- Dimitris Glezos Jabber ID: glezos at jabber.org, GPG: 0xA5A04C3B http://dimitris.glezos.com/ "He who gives up functionality for ease of use loses both and deserves neither." (Anonymous) -- From kwade at redhat.com Wed Oct 11 01:32:43 2006 From: kwade at redhat.com (Karsten Wade) Date: Tue, 10 Oct 2006 18:32:43 -0700 Subject: Tasks updated from FDSCo meeting 10-Oct-2006 Message-ID: <1160530363.27180.193.camel@erato.phig.org> Sorry, I spent too much of our time today on trying to grasp something about PO, POT, and CVS. You can see the latest notes on our tasks here: http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/DocsProject/SteeringCommittee/TaskSchedule * Installation Guide going in for final translation * Desktop User Guide to be announced as open draft for FC6 release * Working out updates for fedora-release-notes package following release ciao - Karsten -- Karsten Wade, RHCE, 108 Editor ^ Fedora Documentation Project Sr. Developer Relations Mgr. | fedoraproject.org/wiki/DocsProject quaid.108.redhat.com | gpg key: AD0E0C41 ////////////////////////////////// \\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\ -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: signature.asc Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 189 bytes Desc: This is a digitally signed message part URL: From docs-list at fedoralinks.org Wed Oct 11 11:48:01 2006 From: docs-list at fedoralinks.org (Robert 'Bob' Jensen) Date: Wed, 11 Oct 2006 06:48:01 -0500 Subject: LOA Needed Message-ID: <452CD9F1.1070109@fedoralinks.org> I will be needing a temporary LOA from things. My father died at 08:35 UTC Oct 11, 2006 at the age of 80. He died from a massive cranial bleed. He did not suffer long. Thank you all for your help and time put in to the release notes, please help Karsten and Paul in making sure we don't miss a beat. Bob -- Robert 'Bob' Jensen * * http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/BobJensen gpg fingerprint: F9F4 7243 4243 0043 2C45 97AF E8A4 C3AE 42EB 0BC6 Fedora Docs Projects FDSCo http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/DocsProject From cpanceac at gmail.com Wed Oct 11 11:49:33 2006 From: cpanceac at gmail.com (cornel panceac) Date: Wed, 11 Oct 2006 14:49:33 +0300 Subject: LOA Needed In-Reply-To: <452CD9F1.1070109@fedoralinks.org> References: <452CD9F1.1070109@fedoralinks.org> Message-ID: :( On 10/11/06, Robert 'Bob' Jensen wrote: > I will be needing a temporary LOA from things. My father died at 08:35 > UTC Oct 11, 2006 at the age of 80. He died from a massive cranial bleed. > He did not suffer long. Thank you all for your help and time put in to > the release notes, please help Karsten and Paul in making sure we don't > miss a beat. > > Bob > > > -- > Robert 'Bob' Jensen * * http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/BobJensen > gpg fingerprint: F9F4 7243 4243 0043 2C45 97AF E8A4 C3AE 42EB 0BC6 > Fedora Docs Projects FDSCo http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/DocsProject > > -- > fedora-docs-list mailing list > fedora-docs-list at redhat.com > To unsubscribe: > https://www.redhat.com/mailman/listinfo/fedora-docs-list > From samfw at redhat.com Wed Oct 11 12:24:37 2006 From: samfw at redhat.com (Sam Folk-Williams) Date: Wed, 11 Oct 2006 08:24:37 -0400 Subject: LOA Needed In-Reply-To: <452CD9F1.1070109@fedoralinks.org> References: <452CD9F1.1070109@fedoralinks.org> Message-ID: <1160569478.6787.15.camel@dhcp83-92.boston.redhat.com> On Wed, 2006-10-11 at 06:48 -0500, Robert 'Bob' Jensen wrote: > I will be needing a temporary LOA from things. My father died at 08:35 > UTC Oct 11, 2006 at the age of 80. He died from a massive cranial bleed. > He did not suffer long. Thank you all for your help and time put in to > the release notes, please help Karsten and Paul in making sure we don't > miss a beat. > Bob, I'm sorry to hear this sad news. Please accept my condolences. I'm happy to step up my efforts and take on any additional tasks left in Bob's absence. Sam > Bob > > > -- > Robert 'Bob' Jensen * * http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/BobJensen > gpg fingerprint: F9F4 7243 4243 0043 2C45 97AF E8A4 C3AE 42EB 0BC6 > Fedora Docs Projects FDSCo http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/DocsProject > -- Sam Folk-Williams, RHCE Global Support Services From stickster at gmail.com Wed Oct 11 21:14:06 2006 From: stickster at gmail.com (Paul W. Frields) Date: Wed, 11 Oct 2006 17:14:06 -0400 Subject: Publish Queue Message-ID: <1160601246.3309.1.camel@localhost.localdomain> Hi folks, Just FYI, I know there have been requests piling up in the wiki PublishQueue. I have had to switch laptops three times in the past week, between a hardware failure and Rawhide testing, so I haven't had time to reinstall my web sandbox (part of the requirements to do publishing, so I can test the results before pushing to the real site). I am going to have semi-stability for the next couple of weeks now, so expect some of those things to be cleared out shortly. -- Paul W. Frields, RHCE http://paul.frields.org/ gpg fingerprint: 3DA6 A0AC 6D58 FEC4 0233 5906 ACDB C937 BD11 3717 Fedora Project Board: http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Board Fedora Docs Project: http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/DocsProject -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: signature.asc Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 189 bytes Desc: This is a digitally signed message part URL: From edward.gantt at att.net Thu Oct 12 22:15:17 2006 From: edward.gantt at att.net (edward.gantt at att.net) Date: Thu, 12 Oct 2006 22:15:17 +0000 Subject: Edward Gantt Message-ID: <101220062215.11439.452EBE750000CA0E00002CAF21603763169B9B020E09D20B9D0E990B0A@att.net> pub 1024D/B272018C 2006-10-12 [expires: 2007-10-12] Key fingerprint = B139 14B9 FAE4 A88A 0E6A A1B9 C55A C7F1 B272 018C uid Edward Gantt (fasteddie) sub 2048g/E2E41DD7 2006-10-12 [expires: 2007-10-12] 1. Full Legal Name: Edward A. Gantt 2. City,Country: Rocklin, CA, USA 3. Status: Student, although I am presently setting up a consulting business. Check out http://www.infotechsource.biz for more details. I welcome comments about this website. 4. I am going to Heald College in Roseville, CA, studying computer security. 5. My goals: a. Writing documentation experience I could show to a prospective employer. b. Experience with participation on a team. One can't be a success in life being a "lone ranger." c. Making a contribution in the Linux community. Instead of complaining, I would like to do something. 6. My interests: a. Phone modem wireless communication from virtually anywhere using a Linux platform. b. Using Linux for entertainment, i.e. MP3 playback. c. Making Linux applications and data port over to Microsoft Windows environments. 7. My skills: a. I possess elementary word-processing, spreadsheet, and database skills. b. I know basic Linux commands. c. I am able to work from a standalone laptop PC with a solo FC4 OS. d. I can access the Internet from my FC4 laptop either at a coffee shop or at home. e. I believe that I am a good writer because I have done well in my English composition classes. f. My technical experience is mainly electronic instrumentation calibration and repair. I have written manual test procedures and have tested them. Some of the test software I used was based a UNIX platform g. I know a little bit about QBasic programming associated with MS-DOS. h. I have assembled and have repaired network coaxial cables. I also know how to make CAT5 cables. i. I am CompTIA A+ certified and Novell CNA certified. 8. Conclusion: I believe that participation in a Linux Project would be a rich and rewarding experience to supplement my educational experience at Heald College. I also think that Linux needs to be more competitive in the United States as far as the PC business is concerned, so I would like to help. In my view, this business seems to be dominated by Apple and Microsoft although this situation in all likelihood should change. I will do the best I can. I promise to remain humble because I don't know every thing. I will try to be respectful to all, so let me know how to address you in a manner that suits you. Best regards to all, Edward Gantt (just calling me Ed is ok) From stickster at gmail.com Fri Oct 13 20:07:11 2006 From: stickster at gmail.com (Paul W. Frields) Date: Fri, 13 Oct 2006 16:07:11 -0400 Subject: Edward Gantt In-Reply-To: <101220062215.11439.452EBE750000CA0E00002CAF21603763169B9B020E09D20B9D0E990B0A@att.net> References: <101220062215.11439.452EBE750000CA0E00002CAF21603763169B9B020E09D20B9D0E990B0A@att.net> Message-ID: <1160770031.8232.13.camel@localhost.localdomain> On Thu, 2006-10-12 at 22:15 +0000, edward.gantt at att.net wrote: > pub 1024D/B272018C 2006-10-12 [expires: 2007-10-12] > Key fingerprint = B139 14B9 FAE4 A88A 0E6A A1B9 C55A C7F1 B272 > 018C > uid Edward Gantt (fasteddie) > sub 2048g/E2E41DD7 2006-10-12 [expires: 2007-10-12] > > 1. Full Legal Name: Edward A. Gantt [ ...snip... ] Hi Ed! Nice to have you aboard. I know that Karsten is trying to get a Desktop User Guide up to speed and out the door, but I'm not sure whether the current status on that doc allows someone to jump in at this exact moment. Maybe you should look around our sites and see what interests you, and report back here with some ideas you would like to pursue. There's a lot of ground to cover, and the field is sort of wide open, which may be why some people get lost at this point -- so much to do, and where to start? I would recommend that you take a look at the following -- if you're new at this you might as well get used to some fo the best tools o' the trade: http://www.redhat.com/archives/fedora-docs-list/2006-August/msg00081.html This was a mostly semi-sane exposition I hosted on how to get started with DocBook XML. Most big Linux doc projects use it, so you might as well learn it. There are other roads you can use, but take it from someone who also learned it here, DocBook is the way to go. http://cvsbook.red-bean.com/cvsbook.html.gz OK, that's a longer and more comprehensive work, but you can skim the first bit of it to learn about CVS if you don't know how that works. If you learn just the basics of those two tools you'll be able to productively write your own content and the rest we can help you with sa you go. Some people just write using the Wiki, but I find it irritating to (a) have to wait for the server to response, and (b) not be able to really work on the stuff easily if I'm not on the 'net. Just my $0.02. Welcome and please ask questions -- we try never to bite here! -- Paul W. Frields, RHCE http://paul.frields.org/ gpg fingerprint: 3DA6 A0AC 6D58 FEC4 0233 5906 ACDB C937 BD11 3717 Fedora Project Board: http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Board Fedora Docs Project: http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/DocsProject -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: signature.asc Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 189 bytes Desc: This is a digitally signed message part URL: From markmc34 at verizon.net Sat Oct 14 16:11:45 2006 From: markmc34 at verizon.net (Markus McLaughlin) Date: Sat, 14 Oct 2006 12:11:45 -0400 Subject: fedora-docs-list Digest, Vol 32, Issue 16 In-Reply-To: <20061014160021.BDBD673192@hormel.redhat.com> References: <20061014160021.BDBD673192@hormel.redhat.com> Message-ID: <675B81D4-5D3A-4FB9-BF07-C8D943951893@verizon.net> Hello Folks! I am writing the Introducing Fedora article this weekend and I hope to have it ready for review on Sunday Evening. I am using OpenOffice Writer as my word processor, I always use Open Source software for any task I have to perform. FC6 will be ready in 3 days, I hope all goes well. I would like to request a Free Media DVD from Thomas Chung to avoid trying to download a torrent on a slow DSL line. I want to create a Computer Club in my hometown of Hudson, MA. I have to purchase a 50 pack of DVD+Rs so I can distribute FC6 to everyone who joins my club. I'm applying for Fedora Ambassador this weekend as well. Wish me luck! :D Mark McLaughlin - marknetproductionsentrance.blogspot.com From kwade at redhat.com Sat Oct 14 23:12:22 2006 From: kwade at redhat.com (Karsten Wade) Date: Sat, 14 Oct 2006 16:12:22 -0700 Subject: fedora-docs-list Digest, Vol 32, Issue 16 In-Reply-To: <675B81D4-5D3A-4FB9-BF07-C8D943951893@verizon.net> References: <20061014160021.BDBD673192@hormel.redhat.com> <675B81D4-5D3A-4FB9-BF07-C8D943951893@verizon.net> Message-ID: <1160867542.2580.99.camel@erato.phig.org> On Sat, 2006-10-14 at 12:11 -0400, Markus McLaughlin wrote: > I am using OpenOffice Writer as my word processor, Taking a second to note that we are glad to take initial submissions in any format. As we get farther with this project, we'll be moving closer to the standard tools that Fedora Documentation uses. > I would like to request a Free Media > DVD from Thomas > Chung to avoid trying to download a torrent on a slow DSL line. I'm not sure the process here, but fedora-ambassadors-list should be able to help you out. You can also get somewhere from this page: http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Distribution/Project - Karsten -- Karsten Wade, RHCE, 108 Editor ^ Fedora Documentation Project Sr. Developer Relations Mgr. | fedoraproject.org/wiki/DocsProject quaid.108.redhat.com | gpg key: AD0E0C41 ////////////////////////////////// \\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\ -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: signature.asc Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 189 bytes Desc: This is a digitally signed message part URL: From markmc34 at verizon.net Sat Oct 14 23:13:45 2006 From: markmc34 at verizon.net (Markus McLaughlin) Date: Sat, 14 Oct 2006 19:13:45 -0400 Subject: Progress on my Introducing Fedora article Message-ID: > Hello Folks! > > I am writing the Introducing Fedora article this weekend and I hope > to have it ready for > review on Sunday Evening. I am using OpenOffice Writer as my word > processor, I > always use Open Source software for any task I have to perform. FC6 > will be ready in > 3 days, I hope all goes well. I would like to request a Free Media > DVD from Thomas > Chung to avoid trying to download a torrent on a slow DSL line. I > want to create a > Computer Club in my hometown of Hudson, MA. I have to purchase a 50 > pack of > DVD+Rs so I can distribute FC6 to everyone who joins my club. I'm > applying for > Fedora Ambassador this weekend as well. Wish me luck! :D > > Mark McLaughlin - marknetproductionsentrance.blogspot.com > (I sent it to the wrong address, sorry! :( From stephen.davies at ultraconsulting.co.uk Sun Oct 15 21:34:50 2006 From: stephen.davies at ultraconsulting.co.uk (Stephen Davies) Date: Sun, 15 Oct 2006 22:34:50 +0100 Subject: Progress on my Introducing Fedora article In-Reply-To: <20061015160019.0905173275@hormel.redhat.com> References: <20061015160019.0905173275@hormel.redhat.com> Message-ID: <4532A97A.90009@ultraconsulting.co.uk> Markus, Good luck with your club in the Hudson Area. I am sure there are a few grey haired ex DEC employees who would be interested in joining. However, have you checked out the local LUG (Linux User Group). There are several in MA with the oldest being the Boston Group (Formerly Boston Computer Society). Good Luck in promoting FC6. In my local Lug (HantsLug) it is a bit of an an uphill battle against the majority who seem for some strange reason to prefer distros like Debian and Ubuntu (sigh) however I do get some envious looks when they see me running DB2, Oracle and WebSphere on my FCn systems.(If only IBM would sort out the threading libraries for MQ...) Stephen Davies From markmc34 at verizon.net Mon Oct 16 05:06:04 2006 From: markmc34 at verizon.net (Markus McLaughlin) Date: Mon, 16 Oct 2006 01:06:04 -0400 Subject: Introducing Fedora - First Draft Message-ID: <27003AC7-020A-48F8-BC39-23B0926C1613@verizon.net> Chapter One Introducing Fedora Core 6 Welcome to a brand new Operating System that shines above all of the other Operating Systems available to choose from! Thank you for choosing Fedora Core 6 to be your Operating System! What is an Operating System, you ask? Well, it is an interface for a collection of software all working together to bring you the information you need to run tasks. Once you get past the Installation process, the GNOME desktop opens with a screen consisting of a menu bar on the top, empty space in the middle that can be used to display icons or graphics, and a task bar that shows which ?window? is open. With the KDE desktop, there is one ?windows?-like menu-bar on the bottom. Finally, with the Xfce desktop, it is arranged in a different manner than GNOME or KDE. This sounds complicated but all they describe is the screen you see every time Fedora Core runs. Here is a brief history of how it was developed. Fedora Core began life as Red Hat Linux. It was one of the "middle-aged" Linux distributions; 1.0 was released in November 3, 1994. It is not as old as Slackware, but certainly older than many other distributions. It was the first Linux distribution to use RPM as its packaging format, and over time has served as the starting point for several other distributions, such as the desktop-oriented Mandriva Linux (originally Red Hat Linux with KDE), Yellow Dog Linux (which started from Red Hat Linux with PowerPC support), and ASPLinux (Red Hat Linux with better non-Latin character support). Since 2003, Red Hat has discontinued the Red Hat Linux line in favor of its new Red Hat Enterprise Linux for enterprise environments and Fedora Core for the free version. Red Hat Linux 9, the final release, hit its official end-of-life on April 30, 2004, although the Fedora Legacy project continues to publish updates. Fedora Core is an RPM-based Linux distribution, developed by the community-supported Fedora Project and sponsored by Red Hat. The name derives from Red Hat's characteristic fedora used in its "Shadowman" logo. However, the Fedora community project had existed as a volunteer group providing extra software for the Red Hat Linux distribution before Red Hat got involved as a direct sponsor. Fedora aims to be a complete, general-purpose operating system containing only free and open source software. Fedora is designed to be easily installed and configured with a simple graphical installer and the 'system-config' suite of configuration tools. The installation system includes an option to use GNU GRUB, a boot loader, facilitating the use of Fedora in conjunction with another operating system. Packages and their dependencies can be easily downloaded and installed with the yum utility. New releases of Fedora come out every six to eight months. Fedora ships with GNOME and KDE, and spans 5 CDs or a single DVD. Network installations are available from a single small 6 MB boot.iso image. The installer supports installation via HTTP, FTP, and NFS, and remote installation progress can be monitored via VNC. The name Fedora Core distinguishes the main Fedora packages from those of the Fedora Extras project, which provides add-ons to Fedora Core. Fedora was derived from the original Red Hat Linux distribution. The project envisages that conventional Linux home users will use Fedora Core, and intends that it replace the consumer distributions of Red Hat Linux. Support for Fedora comes from the greater community (although Red Hat staff work on it, Red Hat does not provide official support for Fedora). Fedora came about as a result of a new business strategy which Red Hat implemented late in 2003 - Red Hat now positions Red Hat Enterprise Linux as a business- oriented Linux distribution, and all official support is for that distribution. Red Hat Enterprise Linux (RHEL) releases are branched off Fedora Core, which has led some critics to observe that Fedora Core users are in effect beta testers for RHEL. In some ways, it is true that Fedora Core is a testbed for RHEL but it is a very good consumer Operating System in its own right. The community develops and supports 90 percent of Fedora Core. It is good to have a major sponsor such as Red Hat so Fedora will be around for a long long time. You can trust Fedora to be YOUR Operating System! This needs a lot of revision, please offer constructive criticism and good changes/additions to make it compatible with our efforts.... Good Night from Hudson, MA.... Mark McLaughlin ? -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: Introducing Fedora.rtf Type: text/rtf Size: 4858 bytes Desc: not available URL: -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From kwade at redhat.com Thu Oct 19 13:21:47 2006 From: kwade at redhat.com (Karsten Wade) Date: Thu, 19 Oct 2006 06:21:47 -0700 Subject: Introducing Fedora - First Draft In-Reply-To: <27003AC7-020A-48F8-BC39-23B0926C1613@verizon.net> References: <27003AC7-020A-48F8-BC39-23B0926C1613@verizon.net> Message-ID: <1161264107.2546.17.camel@erato.phig.org> Sorry I haven't had a chance to look or reply; been a busy week so far (some travel, etc.). I'll take a look, hopefully have some time later today. Input from any others? Speak up, friends. :) On Mon, 2006-10-16 at 01:06 -0400, Markus McLaughlin wrote: > Chapter One > > > Introducing Fedora Core 6 > > > Welcome to a brand new Operating System that shines above all of the > other Operating Systems available to choose from! Thank you for > choosing Fedora Core 6 to be your Operating System! What is an > Operating System, you ask? Well, it is an interface for a collection > of software all working together to bring you the information you need > to run tasks. Once you get past the Installation process, the GNOME > desktop opens with a screen consisting of a menu bar on the top, empty > space in the middle that can be used to display icons or graphics, and > a task bar that shows which ?window? is open. With the KDE desktop, > there is one ?windows?-like menu-bar on the bottom. Finally, with the > Xfce desktop, it is arranged in a different manner than GNOME or KDE. > This sounds complicated but all they describe is the screen you see > every time Fedora Core runs. > > > Here is a brief history of how it was developed. Fedora Core began > life as Red Hat Linux. It was one of the "middle-aged" Linux > distributions; 1.0 was released in November 3, 1994. It is not as old > as Slackware, but certainly older than many other distributions. It > was the first Linux distribution to use RPM as its packaging format, > and over time has served as the starting point for several other > distributions, such as the desktop-oriented Mandriva Linux (originally > Red Hat Linux with KDE), Yellow Dog Linux (which started from Red Hat > Linux with PowerPC support), and ASPLinux (Red Hat Linux with better > non-Latin character support). Since 2003, Red Hat has discontinued > the Red Hat Linux line in favor of its new Red Hat Enterprise Linux > for enterprise environments and Fedora Core for the free version. Red > Hat Linux 9, the final release, hit its official end-of-life on April > 30, 2004, although the Fedora Legacy project continues to publish > updates. > > > Fedora Core is an RPM-based Linux distribution, developed by the > community-supported Fedora Project and sponsored by Red Hat. The name > derives from Red Hat's characteristic fedora used in its "Shadowman" > logo. However, the Fedora community project had existed as a volunteer > group providing extra software for the Red Hat Linux distribution > before Red Hat got involved as a direct sponsor. Fedora aims to be a > complete, general-purpose operating system containing only free and > open source software. Fedora is designed to be easily installed and > configured with a simple graphical installer and the 'system-config' > suite of configuration tools. The installation system includes an > option to use GNU GRUB, a boot loader, facilitating the use of Fedora > in conjunction with another operating system. Packages and their > dependencies can be easily downloaded and installed with the yum > utility. New releases of Fedora come out every six to eight months. > Fedora ships with GNOME and KDE, and spans 5 CDs or a single DVD. > Network installations are available from a single small 6 MB boot.iso > image. The installer supports installation via HTTP, FTP, and NFS, and > remote installation progress can be monitored via VNC. > > > The name Fedora Core distinguishes the main Fedora packages from those > of the Fedora Extras project, which provides add-ons to Fedora Core. > Fedora was derived from the original Red Hat Linux distribution. The > project envisages that conventional Linux home users will use Fedora > Core, and intends that it replace the consumer distributions of Red > Hat Linux. Support for Fedora comes from the greater community > (although Red Hat staff work on it, Red Hat does not provide official > support for Fedora). Fedora came about as a result of a new business > strategy which Red Hat implemented late in 2003 - Red Hat now > positions Red Hat Enterprise Linux as a business-oriented Linux > distribution, and all official support is for that distribution. Red > Hat Enterprise Linux (RHEL) releases are branched off Fedora Core, > which has led some critics to observe that Fedora Core users are in > effect beta testers for RHEL. > > > In some ways, it is true that Fedora Core is a testbed for RHEL but it > is a very good consumer Operating System in its own right. The > community develops and supports 90 percent of Fedora Core. It is good > to have a major sponsor such as Red Hat so Fedora will be around for a > long long time. You can trust Fedora to be YOUR Operating System! > > > > > This needs a lot of revision, please offer constructive criticism and > good changes/additions to make it compatible with our efforts.... > Good Night from Hudson, MA.... > > > Mark McLaughlin > > > -- > fedora-docs-list mailing list > fedora-docs-list at redhat.com > To unsubscribe: > https://www.redhat.com/mailman/listinfo/fedora-docs-list -- Karsten Wade, RHCE, 108 Editor ^ Fedora Documentation Project Sr. Developer Relations Mgr. | fedoraproject.org/wiki/DocsProject quaid.108.redhat.com | gpg key: AD0E0C41 ////////////////////////////////// \\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\ -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: signature.asc Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 189 bytes Desc: This is a digitally signed message part URL: From cpanceac at gmail.com Sat Oct 21 12:47:14 2006 From: cpanceac at gmail.com (cornel panceac) Date: Sat, 21 Oct 2006 15:47:14 +0300 Subject: translation in fedora 6 start page Message-ID: one thing i've just noticed: once i've selected "russian" i can no longer return to other languages since i can't read "english" in russian anymore. of course, placing mouse on every link finaly shows the english link, but we can not expect for the new linux user to know this trick ..... (and there's the back browser button too -_- ...) imho, in every translated version, the links to another languages should be in the respective languages (like spanish link in spanish, english link in english, greek link in greek, etc) From cpanceac at gmail.com Sat Oct 21 12:49:19 2006 From: cpanceac at gmail.com (cornel panceac) Date: Sat, 21 Oct 2006 15:49:19 +0300 Subject: translation in fedora 6 start page In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: otherwise, i'm in love with fc6 firefox start page :) congrats to all that make it happen! 2006/10/21, cornel panceac : > one thing i've just noticed: > once i've selected "russian" i can no longer return to other languages > since i can't read "english" in russian anymore. > > of course, placing mouse on every link finaly shows the english link, > but we can not expect for the new linux user to know this trick ..... > > (and there's the back browser button too -_- ...) > > imho, in every translated version, the links to another languages > should be in the respective languages (like spanish link in spanish, > english link in english, greek link in greek, etc) > From stickster at gmail.com Sat Oct 21 18:58:57 2006 From: stickster at gmail.com (Paul W. Frields) Date: Sat, 21 Oct 2006 14:58:57 -0400 Subject: translation in fedora 6 start page In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <1161457137.7845.2.camel@localhost.localdomain> On Sat, 2006-10-21 at 15:47 +0300, cornel panceac wrote: > one thing i've just noticed: > once i've selected "russian" i can no longer return to other languages > since i can't read "english" in russian anymore. > > of course, placing mouse on every link finaly shows the english link, > but we can not expect for the new linux user to know this trick ..... > > (and there's the back browser button too -_- ...) > > imho, in every translated version, the links to another languages > should be in the respective languages (like spanish link in spanish, > english link in english, greek link in greek, etc) There's a chicken-and-egg problem involved. We can't write the paragraph containing the list of languages until all the finished translations come in. Once that happens, the added paragraph is untranslated. Get it? :-) In any case, this will cease to be a problem at some point in the near future. We will have an adaptive index function that will simply pick up your locale from your browser using Javascript, and show the correct translation automatically. -- Paul W. Frields, RHCE http://paul.frields.org/ gpg fingerprint: 3DA6 A0AC 6D58 FEC4 0233 5906 ACDB C937 BD11 3717 Fedora Project Board: http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Board Fedora Docs Project: http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/DocsProject -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: signature.asc Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 189 bytes Desc: This is a digitally signed message part URL: From cpanceac at gmail.com Sat Oct 21 19:06:41 2006 From: cpanceac at gmail.com (cornel panceac) Date: Sat, 21 Oct 2006 22:06:41 +0300 Subject: translation in fedora 6 start page In-Reply-To: <1161457137.7845.2.camel@localhost.localdomain> References: <1161457137.7845.2.camel@localhost.localdomain> Message-ID: ok paul , thank you very much :) 2006/10/21, Paul W. Frields : > On Sat, 2006-10-21 at 15:47 +0300, cornel panceac wrote: > > one thing i've just noticed: > > once i've selected "russian" i can no longer return to other languages > > since i can't read "english" in russian anymore. > > > > of course, placing mouse on every link finaly shows the english link, > > but we can not expect for the new linux user to know this trick ..... > > > > (and there's the back browser button too -_- ...) > > > > imho, in every translated version, the links to another languages > > should be in the respective languages (like spanish link in spanish, > > english link in english, greek link in greek, etc) > > There's a chicken-and-egg problem involved. We can't write the > paragraph containing the list of languages until all the finished > translations come in. Once that happens, the added paragraph is > untranslated. Get it? :-) > > In any case, this will cease to be a problem at some point in the near > future. We will have an adaptive index function that will simply pick > up your locale from your browser using Javascript, and show the correct > translation automatically. > > -- > Paul W. Frields, RHCE http://paul.frields.org/ > gpg fingerprint: 3DA6 A0AC 6D58 FEC4 0233 5906 ACDB C937 BD11 3717 > Fedora Project Board: http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Board > Fedora Docs Project: http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/DocsProject > > > -- > fedora-docs-list mailing list > fedora-docs-list at redhat.com > To unsubscribe: > https://www.redhat.com/mailman/listinfo/fedora-docs-list > > > From dimitris at glezos.com Sat Oct 21 20:50:23 2006 From: dimitris at glezos.com (Dimitris Glezos) Date: Sat, 21 Oct 2006 21:50:23 +0100 Subject: translation in fedora 6 start page In-Reply-To: <1161457137.7845.2.camel@localhost.localdomain> References: <1161457137.7845.2.camel@localhost.localdomain> Message-ID: <453A880F.2080907@glezos.com> O/H Paul W. Frields ??????: > On Sat, 2006-10-21 at 15:47 +0300, cornel panceac wrote: >> one thing i've just noticed: >> once i've selected "russian" i can no longer return to other languages >> since i can't read "english" in russian anymore. >> >> of course, placing mouse on every link finaly shows the english link, >> but we can not expect for the new linux user to know this trick ..... >> >> (and there's the back browser button too -_- ...) >> >> imho, in every translated version, the links to another languages >> should be in the respective languages (like spanish link in spanish, >> english link in english, greek link in greek, etc) > > There's a chicken-and-egg problem involved. We can't write the > paragraph containing the list of languages until all the finished > translations come in. Once that happens, the added paragraph is > untranslated. Get it? :-) Paul, I think Cornel meant that the paragraph should be the same in all languages, like the following: "English, Italiano, ????????, ..." so that whatever page you visit, you will be able to return to your own since you'll always understand the link. An alternative is to have the language name localized in parenthesis, which comforts both users wanting to understand the links in their own webpage and people wanting to understand links in all webpages: EN: English, Italiano (Italian), ???????? (Greek), ... EL: ??????? (English), ??????? (Italian), ????????, ... or the opposite (original name in parenthesis: EN: English, Italian (Italiano), Greek (????????), ... EL: ??????? (English), ??????? (Italiano), ????????, ... The first of the three ways solves the chicken-and-egg problem but is not localized, so it's the only paragraph from the page that a reader won't be able to understand. It's a tradeoff I guess, but at least it's better than having all the language names in English. Anyway, this will be less important once the adaptive index will work. Even with that though, we should choose which of the above we will implement. :) -d > > In any case, this will cease to be a problem at some point in the near > future. We will have an adaptive index function that will simply pick > up your locale from your browser using Javascript, and show the correct > translation automatically. > > -- Dimitris Glezos Jabber ID: glezos at jabber.org, GPG: 0xA5A04C3B http://dimitris.glezos.com/ "He who gives up functionality for ease of use loses both and deserves neither." (Anonymous) -- From stickster at gmail.com Sun Oct 22 20:49:49 2006 From: stickster at gmail.com (Paul W. Frields) Date: Sun, 22 Oct 2006 16:49:49 -0400 Subject: translation in fedora 6 start page In-Reply-To: <453A880F.2080907@glezos.com> References: <1161457137.7845.2.camel@localhost.localdomain> <453A880F.2080907@glezos.com> Message-ID: <1161550189.28640.14.camel@localhost.localdomain> On Sat, 2006-10-21 at 21:50 +0100, Dimitris Glezos wrote: > > O/H Paul W. Frields ??????: > > On Sat, 2006-10-21 at 15:47 +0300, cornel panceac wrote: > >> one thing i've just noticed: > >> once i've selected "russian" i can no longer return to other languages > >> since i can't read "english" in russian anymore. > >> > >> of course, placing mouse on every link finaly shows the english link, > >> but we can not expect for the new linux user to know this trick ..... > >> > >> (and there's the back browser button too -_- ...) > >> > >> imho, in every translated version, the links to another languages > >> should be in the respective languages (like spanish link in spanish, > >> english link in english, greek link in greek, etc) > > > > There's a chicken-and-egg problem involved. We can't write the > > paragraph containing the list of languages until all the finished > > translations come in. Once that happens, the added paragraph is > > untranslated. Get it? :-) > > Paul, > > I think Cornel meant that the paragraph should be the same in all languages, > like the following: > > "English, Italiano, ????????, ..." > > so that whatever page you visit, you will be able to return to your own since > you'll always understand the link. I don't get that from the OP, since it says "I can't read 'english' in russian anymore." > An alternative is to have the language name localized in parenthesis, which > comforts both users wanting to understand the links in their own webpage and > people wanting to understand links in all webpages: > > EN: English, Italiano (Italian), ???????? (Greek), ... > EL: ??????? (English), ??????? (Italian), ????????, ... > > or the opposite (original name in parenthesis: > > EN: English, Italian (Italiano), Greek (????????), ... > EL: ??????? (English), ??????? (Italiano), ????????, ... > > > The first of the three ways solves the chicken-and-egg problem but is not > localized, so it's the only paragraph from the page that a reader won't be able > to understand. It's a tradeoff I guess, but at least it's better than having all > the language names in English. > > Anyway, this will be less important once the adaptive index will work. Even with > that though, we should choose which of the above we will implement. :) I would advocate ISO codes over other non-localized language names. Localized versions would be fine, e.g.: English (en), Italiano (it), ???????? (gr)... Since this fallback page will likely be written directly as (X)HTML, it would obviate any requirement for translating the content. The localized language names can be found all over the googlemind. -- Paul W. Frields, RHCE http://paul.frields.org/ gpg fingerprint: 3DA6 A0AC 6D58 FEC4 0233 5906 ACDB C937 BD11 3717 Fedora Project Board: http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Board Fedora Docs Project: http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/DocsProject -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: signature.asc Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 189 bytes Desc: This is a digitally signed message part URL: From cpanceac at gmail.com Sun Oct 22 21:17:37 2006 From: cpanceac at gmail.com (cornel panceac) Date: Mon, 23 Oct 2006 00:17:37 +0300 Subject: translation in fedora 6 start page In-Reply-To: <1161550189.28640.14.camel@localhost.localdomain> References: <1161457137.7845.2.camel@localhost.localdomain> <453A880F.2080907@glezos.com> <1161550189.28640.14.camel@localhost.localdomain> Message-ID: ok, dimitris got the point :) and paul's idea with iso codes sounds good. 2006/10/22, Paul W. Frields : > On Sat, 2006-10-21 at 21:50 +0100, Dimitris Glezos wrote: > > > > O/H Paul W. Frields ??????: > > > On Sat, 2006-10-21 at 15:47 +0300, cornel panceac wrote: > > >> one thing i've just noticed: > > >> once i've selected "russian" i can no longer return to other languages > > >> since i can't read "english" in russian anymore. > > >> > > >> of course, placing mouse on every link finaly shows the english link, > > >> but we can not expect for the new linux user to know this trick ..... > > >> > > >> (and there's the back browser button too -_- ...) > > >> > > >> imho, in every translated version, the links to another languages > > >> should be in the respective languages (like spanish link in spanish, > > >> english link in english, greek link in greek, etc) > > > > > > There's a chicken-and-egg problem involved. We can't write the > > > paragraph containing the list of languages until all the finished > > > translations come in. Once that happens, the added paragraph is > > > untranslated. Get it? :-) > > > > Paul, > > > > I think Cornel meant that the paragraph should be the same in all languages, > > like the following: > > > > "English, Italiano, ????????, ..." > > > > so that whatever page you visit, you will be able to return to your own since > > you'll always understand the link. > > I don't get that from the OP, since it says "I can't read 'english' in > russian anymore." > > > An alternative is to have the language name localized in parenthesis, which > > comforts both users wanting to understand the links in their own webpage and > > people wanting to understand links in all webpages: > > > > EN: English, Italiano (Italian), ???????? (Greek), ... > > EL: ??????? (English), ??????? (Italian), ????????, ... > > > > or the opposite (original name in parenthesis: > > > > EN: English, Italian (Italiano), Greek (????????), ... > > EL: ??????? (English), ??????? (Italiano), ????????, ... > > > > > > The first of the three ways solves the chicken-and-egg problem but is not > > localized, so it's the only paragraph from the page that a reader won't be able > > to understand. It's a tradeoff I guess, but at least it's better than having all > > the language names in English. > > > > Anyway, this will be less important once the adaptive index will work. Even with > > that though, we should choose which of the above we will implement. :) > > I would advocate ISO codes over other non-localized language names. > Localized versions would be fine, e.g.: > > English (en), Italiano (it), ???????? (gr)... > > Since this fallback page will likely be written directly as (X)HTML, it > would obviate any requirement for translating the content. The > localized language names can be found all over the googlemind. > > -- > Paul W. Frields, RHCE http://paul.frields.org/ > gpg fingerprint: 3DA6 A0AC 6D58 FEC4 0233 5906 ACDB C937 BD11 3717 > Fedora Project Board: http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Board > Fedora Docs Project: http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/DocsProject > > > -- > fedora-docs-list mailing list > fedora-docs-list at redhat.com > To unsubscribe: > https://www.redhat.com/mailman/listinfo/fedora-docs-list > > > From dimitris at glezos.com Sun Oct 22 22:05:46 2006 From: dimitris at glezos.com (Dimitris Glezos) Date: Sun, 22 Oct 2006 23:05:46 +0100 Subject: translation in fedora 6 start page In-Reply-To: <1161550189.28640.14.camel@localhost.localdomain> References: <1161457137.7845.2.camel@localhost.localdomain> <453A880F.2080907@glezos.com> <1161550189.28640.14.camel@localhost.localdomain> Message-ID: <453BEB3A.80407@glezos.com> O/H Paul W. Frields ??????: > On Sat, 2006-10-21 at 21:50 +0100, Dimitris Glezos wrote: >>... >> An alternative is to have the language name localized in parenthesis, which >> comforts both users wanting to understand the links in their own webpage and >> people wanting to understand links in all webpages: >> >> EN: English, Italiano (Italian), ???????? (Greek), ... >> EL: ??????? (English), ??????? (Italian), ????????, ... >> >> or the opposite (original name in parenthesis: >> >> EN: English, Italian (Italiano), Greek (????????), ... >> EL: ??????? (English), ??????? (Italiano), ????????, ... >> >> >> The first of the three ways solves the chicken-and-egg problem but is not >> localized, so it's the only paragraph from the page that a reader won't be able >> to understand. It's a tradeoff I guess, but at least it's better than having all >> the language names in English. >> >> Anyway, this will be less important once the adaptive index will work. Even with >> that though, we should choose which of the above we will implement. :) > > I would advocate ISO codes over other non-localized language names. > Localized versions would be fine, e.g.: > > English (en), Italiano (it), ???????? (gr)... > > Since this fallback page will likely be written directly as (X)HTML, it > would obviate any requirement for translating the content. The > localized language names can be found all over the googlemind. Good idea, I agree ISO codes would be even better. -d -- Dimitris Glezos Jabber ID: glezos at jabber.org, GPG: 0xA5A04C3B http://dimitris.glezos.com/ "He who gives up functionality for ease of use loses both and deserves neither." (Anonymous) -- From fajarpri at cbn.net.id Tue Oct 24 05:28:28 2006 From: fajarpri at cbn.net.id (Fajar Priyanto) Date: Tue, 24 Oct 2006 12:28:28 +0700 Subject: Introducing Fedora - First Draft In-Reply-To: <1161264107.2546.17.camel@erato.phig.org> References: <27003AC7-020A-48F8-BC39-23B0926C1613@verizon.net> <1161264107.2546.17.camel@erato.phig.org> Message-ID: <200610241228.28776.fajarpri@cbn.net.id> On Thursday 19 October 2006 20:21, Karsten Wade wrote: > Sorry I haven't had a chance to look or reply; been a busy week so far > (some travel, etc.). I'll take a look, hopefully have some time later > today. > > Input from any others? Speak up, friends. :) > > utility. New releases of Fedora come out every six to eight months. Hello, In the RHEL official course material, it is said that fedora's release cycle is 4-6 months. Just a consideration. -- Fajar Priyanto | Reg'd Linux User #327841 | Linux tutorial http://linux2.arinet.org 12:28pm up 15:34, 2.6.16.13-4-default GNU/Linux Let's use OpenOffice. http://www.openoffice.org From sundaram at fedoraproject.org Tue Oct 24 13:05:06 2006 From: sundaram at fedoraproject.org (Rahul Sundaram) Date: Tue, 24 Oct 2006 18:35:06 +0530 Subject: Fedora Core 6 Installation guide Message-ID: <453E0F82.7010101@fedoraproject.org> Hi There is a typo in http://fedora.redhat.com/docs/install-guide/fc6/en/ch-packageselection.html#sn-additional-repos. Version is spelled incorrectly. Good work on the guide. I was wondering if the source format for documentation should be the wiki all the time. Rahul From markmc34 at verizon.net Tue Oct 24 17:25:09 2006 From: markmc34 at verizon.net (Markus McLaughlin) Date: Tue, 24 Oct 2006 13:25:09 -0400 Subject: FC7 through FC10 Name Proposals In-Reply-To: <369bce3b0610232216h4f5c27b2qb294abbcdcea6c03@mail.gmail.com> References: <369bce3b0610232216h4f5c27b2qb294abbcdcea6c03@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: Hi Fedora Fans/Users/Programmers!!! This is definitely an exciting day for us Fedora Fans/Users/Programmers! I am downloading the MAC-PPC edition of FC6 all day today on my day off from work. I love the name ZOD, very cool, and a nice reference to General Zod of Superman lore. Now here are names that I hope will be considered for the upcoming releases. Star Trek turned 40 this year so I propose the name for Fedora Core 7 to be Spock. I will write to startrek.com and trektoday.com and the Trek BBS if that is okay to be used since it won't be a name that can be sold. Along with the Spock name, I want to encourage programmers who know how to create themes to create an "LCARS" theme that looks a lot like a computer display on board the Enterprise-D as shown in ST-TNG complete with animated icons and/or panels. Here are names I hope will be considered for FC8 through FC10. Athena, a Greek Goddess, would make an appealing name for FC8. FC9 should be named either Brando, Kurtz, Vito, Jules, Vega, Tarantino, Starbuck, Baltar, Pryor, Kennedy, or Boston. In honor of Linus Torvalds' work on the Linux kernel, Fedora Core 10 will be known as "Hattu," which is Finnish for Hat. It will also honor my Finnish roots as well, half of my ancestors/family comes from Finland so I insist on this name as well. The other half being Irish American, my ancestors came from Ireland. Please consider these names in the months to come but PLEASE use "Hattu" for Fedora Core 10, it would be the logical thing to do.... BTW, Fedora Core needs an optional Sidebar a la Vista in both GNOME and KDE, customizable of course. I think FC should have a really good expanded "Start" panel as well in future releases. Finally, some cool animated icons would be a nice touch in FC7... Mark McLaughlin - marknetproductionsentrance.blogspot.com - Hudson, MA, USA From notting at redhat.com Tue Oct 24 17:38:12 2006 From: notting at redhat.com (Bill Nottingham) Date: Tue, 24 Oct 2006 13:38:12 -0400 Subject: FC7 through FC10 Name Proposals In-Reply-To: References: <369bce3b0610232216h4f5c27b2qb294abbcdcea6c03@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <20061024173812.GA7632@nostromo.devel.redhat.com> Markus McLaughlin (markmc34 at verizon.net) said: > This is definitely an exciting day for us Fedora Fans/Users/Programmers! > I am downloading the MAC-PPC edition of FC6 all day today on my day off > from work. I love the name ZOD, very cool, and a nice reference to > General > Zod of Superman lore. Now here are names that I hope will be considered > for the upcoming releases. Star Trek turned 40 this year so I > propose the > name for Fedora Core 7 to be Spock. I will write to startrek.com and > trektoday.com and the Trek BBS if that is okay to be used since it > won't be > a name that can be sold. Along with the Spock name, I want to encourage > programmers who know how to create themes to create an "LCARS" theme > that looks a lot like a computer display on board the Enterprise-D as > shown > in ST-TNG complete with animated icons and/or panels. > > Here are names I hope will be considered for FC8 through FC10. > Athena, a > Greek Goddess, would make an appealing name for FC8. FC9 should be > named either Brando, Kurtz, Vito, Jules, Vega, Tarantino, Starbuck, > Baltar, > Pryor, Kennedy, or Boston. > > In honor of Linus Torvalds' work on the Linux kernel, Fedora Core 10 > will > be known as "Hattu," which is Finnish for Hat. It will also honor my > Finnish > roots as well, half of my ancestors/family comes from Finland so I > insist > on this name as well. The other half being Irish American, my > ancestors > came from Ireland. That's not really how the naming works; there are links between each set of names... Bill From markmc34 at verizon.net Tue Oct 24 17:41:06 2006 From: markmc34 at verizon.net (Markus McLaughlin) Date: Tue, 24 Oct 2006 13:41:06 -0400 Subject: Fwd: Correction on the FC10 name proposal References: Message-ID: > In honor of Linus Torvalds' work on the Linux kernel, Fedora Core > 10 will > be known as "Hattu," which is Finnish for Hat. This will be > dedicated to him for coming up with Linux and honor both his ancestry and mine as well since my ancestry is from Finland as well.... > > Mark McLaughlin - marknetproductionsentrance.blogspot.com - Hudson, > MA, USA > From josep.puigdemont at gmail.com Tue Oct 24 22:07:19 2006 From: josep.puigdemont at gmail.com (Josep Puigdemont) Date: Wed, 25 Oct 2006 00:07:19 +0200 Subject: Fwd: Correction on the FC10 name proposal In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <1161727640.3719.2.camel@deimos.baldrick.mine.nu> El dt 24 de 10 del 2006 a les 13:41 -0400, en/na Markus McLaughlin va escriure: > > In honor of Linus Torvalds' work on the Linux kernel, Fedora Core > > 10 will > > be known as "Hattu," which is Finnish for Hat. This will be > > dedicated to > him for coming up with Linux and honor both his ancestry and > mine as well > since my ancestry is from Finland as well.... As a matter of fact Him has Swedish as his mother tongue... :) > > > > Mark McLaughlin - marknetproductionsentrance.blogspot.com - Hudson, > > MA, USA > > > /Josep From stickster at gmail.com Wed Oct 25 00:58:15 2006 From: stickster at gmail.com (Paul W. Frields) Date: Tue, 24 Oct 2006 20:58:15 -0400 Subject: Fedora Core 6 Installation guide In-Reply-To: <453E0F82.7010101@fedoraproject.org> References: <453E0F82.7010101@fedoraproject.org> Message-ID: <1161737895.12444.3.camel@localhost.localdomain> On Tue, 2006-10-24 at 18:35 +0530, Rahul Sundaram wrote: > Hi > > There is a typo in > http://fedora.redhat.com/docs/install-guide/fc6/en/ch-packageselection.html#sn-additional-repos. > Version is spelled incorrectly. Bugzilla is a good place for this; we have our own product and components there. > Good work on the guide. I was wondering if the source format for > documentation should be the wiki all the time. Unfortunately, the very limited markup allowed by the wiki is not as useful as DocBook for creating multiple presentation formats (X/HTML, PDF, OOo, etc.). We've discussed this many times in the past, and decided against it for that and other reasons. However, I think everyone agrees that we'd be open to doing this on Plone if the editor environment there supports tagging to the extent of DocBook, even if it's hidden from the casual contributor. -- Paul W. Frields, RHCE http://paul.frields.org/ gpg fingerprint: 3DA6 A0AC 6D58 FEC4 0233 5906 ACDB C937 BD11 3717 Fedora Project Board: http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Board Fedora Docs Project: http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/DocsProject -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: signature.asc Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 189 bytes Desc: This is a digitally signed message part URL: From gertjanvinkje at yahoo.es Wed Oct 25 01:30:36 2006 From: gertjanvinkje at yahoo.es (Gertjan Vinkesteijn) Date: Wed, 25 Oct 2006 03:30:36 +0200 Subject: Self-Introduction: gvinky Message-ID: <453EBE3C.2070000@yahoo.es> 1. Gertjan Vinkesteijn * Benimeli, Spain, 15 kms from Denia * retired ICT from htp://www.getronics.com * done 2 yrs aerodynamics, because playing in a dixieland band ( banjo, guitar, trombone) with the Delft Studenten Corps, before you are thinking that I am Jewish, because of my last name.. * Translating webpages to Dutch * I did TeX and MetaFont with SIL, http://sil.org * experience with algol, simula, fortran, C, C++, C#, Java.. worked 10 yrs at CWI, http://cwi.nl * I think that I have some experience as being a web-programmer on the R&D dept. at Getronics. pub 1024D/A7E5D5F3 2006-10-23 [expires: 2007-10-23] Key fingerprint = AAB1 67F4 CFE3 E940 44BC 58F8 7B7B 482C A7E5 D5F3 uid Gertjan Vinkesteijn (Dutch Docs Fedora) sub 1024g/9B4B4ED6 2006-10-23 [expires: 2007-10-23] --------------050806020306070003080809 Content-Type: text/html; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
  1. Gertjan Vinkesteijn
  •       Benimeli, Spain, 15 kms from Denia
  • retired ICT from htp://www.getronics.com
  • done 2 yrs aerodynamics, because playing in a dixieland band ( banjo, guitar, trombone) with the Delft Studenten Corps, before you are thinking that I am Jewish, because of my last name..
  • Translating webpages to Dutch
  • I did TeX and MetaFont with SIL, http://sil.org
  • experience with algol, simula, fortran, C, C++, C#, Java.. worked 10 yrs at CWI, http://cwi.nl
  • I think that I have some experience as being a web-programmer on the R&D dept. at Getronics.
pub   1024D/A7E5D5F3 2006-10-23 [expires: 2007-10-23]
      Key fingerprint = AAB1 67F4 CFE3 E940 44BC  58F8 7B7B 482C A7E5 D5F3
uid                  Gertjan Vinkesteijn (Dutch Docs Fedora) <gertjanvinkje at yahoo.es>
sub   1024g/9B4B4ED6 2006-10-23 [expires: 2007-10-23]


______________________________________________ LLama Gratis a cualquier PC del Mundo. Llamadas a fijos y m?viles desde 1 c?ntimo por minuto. http://es.voice.yahoo.com From gertjanvinkje at yahoo.es Wed Oct 25 03:33:09 2006 From: gertjanvinkje at yahoo.es (Gertjan Vinkesteijn) Date: Wed, 25 Oct 2006 05:33:09 +0200 Subject: Self-Introduction: gvinky Message-ID: <453EDAF5.8090203@yahoo.es> 1. Gertjan Vinkesteijn * Benimeli, Spain, 15 kms from Denia * retired ICT from http://getronics.com * done 2 yrs aerodynamics, because playing in a dixieland band ( banjo, guitar, trombone) with the Delft Studenten Corps, before you are thinking that I am Jewish, because of my last name.. * Translating webpages to Dutch * I did TeX and MetaFont with SIL, http://sil.org * experience with algol, simula, fortran, C, C++, C#, Java.. worked 10 yrs at CWI, http://cwi.nl * I think that I have some experience as being a web-programmer on the R&D dept. at Getronics. pub 1024D/A7E5D5F3 2006-10-23 [expires: 2007-10-23] Key fingerprint = AAB1 67F4 CFE3 E940 44BC 58F8 7B7B 482C A7E5 D5F3 uid Gertjan Vinkesteijn (Dutch Docs Fedora) sub 1024g/9B4B4ED6 2006-10-23 [expires: 2007-10-23] ______________________________________________ LLama Gratis a cualquier PC del Mundo. Llamadas a fijos y m?viles desde 1 c?ntimo por minuto. http://es.voice.yahoo.com From lxtnow at gmail.com Wed Oct 25 11:16:05 2006 From: lxtnow at gmail.com (SmootherFrOgZ) Date: Wed, 25 Oct 2006 07:16:05 -0400 Subject: FC7 through FC10 Name Proposals In-Reply-To: <20061024173812.GA7632@nostromo.devel.redhat.com> References: <369bce3b0610232216h4f5c27b2qb294abbcdcea6c03@mail.gmail.com> <20061024173812.GA7632@nostromo.devel.redhat.com> Message-ID: <62bc09df0610250416h55544ca7p942e35045f056a3e@mail.gmail.com> What kind of link ? I would like to know... 2006/10/24, Bill Nottingham : > > Markus McLaughlin (markmc34 at verizon.net) said: > > This is definitely an exciting day for us Fedora Fans/Users/Programmers! > > I am downloading the MAC-PPC edition of FC6 all day today on my day off > > from work. I love the name ZOD, very cool, and a nice reference to > > General > > Zod of Superman lore. Now here are names that I hope will be considered > > for the upcoming releases. Star Trek turned 40 this year so I > > propose the > > name for Fedora Core 7 to be Spock. I will write to startrek.com and > > trektoday.com and the Trek BBS if that is okay to be used since it > > won't be > > a name that can be sold. Along with the Spock name, I want to encourage > > programmers who know how to create themes to create an "LCARS" theme > > that looks a lot like a computer display on board the Enterprise-D as > > shown > > in ST-TNG complete with animated icons and/or panels. > > > > Here are names I hope will be considered for FC8 through FC10. > > Athena, a > > Greek Goddess, would make an appealing name for FC8. FC9 should be > > named either Brando, Kurtz, Vito, Jules, Vega, Tarantino, Starbuck, > > Baltar, > > Pryor, Kennedy, or Boston. > > > > In honor of Linus Torvalds' work on the Linux kernel, Fedora Core 10 > > will > > be known as "Hattu," which is Finnish for Hat. It will also honor my > > Finnish > > roots as well, half of my ancestors/family comes from Finland so I > > insist > > on this name as well. The other half being Irish American, my > > ancestors > > came from Ireland. > > That's not really how the naming works; there are links between > each set of names... > > Bill > > -- > fedora-docs-list mailing list > fedora-docs-list at redhat.com > To unsubscribe: > https://www.redhat.com/mailman/listinfo/fedora-docs-list > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From stickster at gmail.com Wed Oct 25 11:46:19 2006 From: stickster at gmail.com (Paul W. Frields) Date: Wed, 25 Oct 2006 07:46:19 -0400 Subject: FC7 through FC10 Name Proposals In-Reply-To: <62bc09df0610250416h55544ca7p942e35045f056a3e@mail.gmail.com> References: <369bce3b0610232216h4f5c27b2qb294abbcdcea6c03@mail.gmail.com> <20061024173812.GA7632@nostromo.devel.redhat.com> <62bc09df0610250416h55544ca7p942e35045f056a3e@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <1161776779.6324.5.camel@localhost.localdomain> On Wed, 2006-10-25 at 07:16 -0400, SmootherFrOgZ wrote: > What kind of link ? > > I would like to know... You can find out a lot of this kind of information using Google, but in a nutshell, each set of two consecutive names are connected, but in a different way from the previous set of two names. -- Paul W. Frields, RHCE http://paul.frields.org/ gpg fingerprint: 3DA6 A0AC 6D58 FEC4 0233 5906 ACDB C937 BD11 3717 Fedora Project Board: http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Board Fedora Docs Project: http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/DocsProject -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: signature.asc Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 189 bytes Desc: This is a digitally signed message part URL: From gertjanvinkje at yahoo.es Wed Oct 25 18:07:34 2006 From: gertjanvinkje at yahoo.es (Gertjan Vinkesteijjn) Date: Wed, 25 Oct 2006 20:07:34 +0200 Subject: Self-Introduction: gvinky Message-ID: <453FA7E6.4020003@yahoo.es> 1. Gertjan Vinkesteijn * Benimeli, Spain, 15 kms from Denia * retired ICT from http://getronics.com * Translating webpages to Dutch * I did TeX and MetaFont with SIL, http://sil.org * experience with algol, simula, fortran, C, C++, C#, Java.. worked 10 yrs at CWI, http://cwi.nl * I think that I have some experience as being a web-programmer on the R&D dept. at Getronics. pub 1024D/A7E5D5F3 2006-10-23 [expires: 2007-10-23] Key fingerprint = AAB1 67F4 CFE3 E940 44BC 58F8 7B7B 482C A7E5 D5F3 uid Gertjan Vinkesteijn (Dutch Docs Fedora) sub 1024g/9B4B4ED6 2006-10-23 [expires: 2007-10-23] ______________________________________________ LLama Gratis a cualquier PC del Mundo. Llamadas a fijos y m?viles desde 1 c?ntimo por minuto. http://es.voice.yahoo.com From gertjanvinkje at yahoo.es Thu Oct 26 03:26:29 2006 From: gertjanvinkje at yahoo.es (Gertjan Vinkesteijjn) Date: Thu, 26 Oct 2006 05:26:29 +0200 Subject: Self-Introduction: gvinky Message-ID: <45402AE5.5030108@yahoo.es> 1. Gertjan Vinkesteijn * Benimeli, Spain, 15 kms from Denia * retired ICT from http://getronics.com * done 2 yrs aerodynamics, because playing in a dixieland band ( banjo, guitar, trombone) I did not finish my studies. * Translating webpages to Dutch * I did TeX and MetaFont with SIL, http://sil.org * experience with algol, simula, fortran, C, C++, C#, Java.. worked 10 yrs at CWI, http://cwi.nl * I think that I have some experience as being a web-programmer on the R&D dept. at Getronics. [gertjan at gershwin ~]$ gpg --fingerprint A7E5D5F3 pub 1024D/A7E5D5F3 2006-10-23 [expires: 2007-10-23] Key fingerprint = AAB1 67F4 CFE3 E940 44BC 58F8 7B7B 482C A7E5 D5F3 uid Gertjan Vinkesteijn (Dutch Docs Fedora) sub 1024g/9B4B4ED6 2006-10-23 [expires: 2007-10-23] ______________________________________________ LLama Gratis a cualquier PC del Mundo. Llamadas a fijos y m?viles desde 1 c?ntimo por minuto. http://es.voice.yahoo.com From gertjanvinkje at yahoo.es Thu Oct 26 02:59:36 2006 From: gertjanvinkje at yahoo.es (Gertjan Vinkesteijjn) Date: Thu, 26 Oct 2006 04:59:36 +0200 Subject: Self-Introduction: gvinky Message-ID: <45402498.5080109@yahoo.es> 1. Gertjan Vinkesteijn * Benimeli, Spain, 15 kms from Denia * retired ICT from http://www.getronics.com * done 2 yrs aerodynamics, because playing in a dixieland band, I did not finish my study, not advisable! * Translating webpages to Dutch * I did TeX and MetaFont with SIL, http://sil.org * experience with algol, simula, fortran, C, C++, C#, Java.. worked 10 yrs at CWI, http://cwi.nl * I think that I have some experience as being a web-programmer on the R&D dept. at Getronics [gertjan at gershwin ~]$ gpg --fingerprint A7E5D5F3 pub 1024D/A7E5D5F3 2006-10-23 [expires: 2007-10-23] Key fingerprint = AAB1 67F4 CFE3 E940 44BC 58F8 7B7B 482C A7E5 D5F3 uid Gertjan Vinkesteijn (Dutch Docs Fedora) sub 1024g/9B4B4ED6 2006-10-23 [expires: 2007-10-23] [gertjan at gershwin ~]$ ______________________________________________ LLama Gratis a cualquier PC del Mundo. Llamadas a fijos y m?viles desde 1 c?ntimo por minuto. http://es.voice.yahoo.com From gertjanvinkje at yahoo.es Thu Oct 26 20:03:35 2006 From: gertjanvinkje at yahoo.es (Gertjan Vinkesteijjn) Date: Thu, 26 Oct 2006 22:03:35 +0200 Subject: Self-Introduction: GertjanVinkesteijn Message-ID: <45411497.9000901@yahoo.es> 1. Gertjan Vinkesteijn * Benimeli, Spain, 15 kms from Denia * retired ICT from http://www.getronics.com * done 2 yrs aerodynamics, because playing in a dixieland band, I did not finish my study, not advisable! * Translating webpages to Dutch * I did TeX and MetaFont with SIL, http://sil.org * 10 yrs at CWI, http://cwi.nl * Some experience as being a web-programmer on the R&D dept. at Getronics [gertjan at gershwin ~]$ gpg --fingerprint A7E5D5F3 pub 1024D/A7E5D5F3 2006-10-23 [expires: 2007-10-23] Key fingerprint = AAB1 67F4 CFE3 E940 44BC 58F8 7B7B 482C A7E5 D5F3 uid Gertjan Vinkesteijn (Dutch Docs Fedora) sub 1024g/9B4B4ED6 2006-10-23 [expires: 2007-10-23] [gertjan at gershwin ~]$ ______________________________________________ LLama Gratis a cualquier PC del Mundo. Llamadas a fijos y m?viles desde 1 c?ntimo por minuto. http://es.voice.yahoo.com From samfw at redhat.com Thu Oct 26 20:17:56 2006 From: samfw at redhat.com (Sam Folk-Williams) Date: Thu, 26 Oct 2006 16:17:56 -0400 Subject: Self-Introduction: GertjanVinkesteijn In-Reply-To: <45411497.9000901@yahoo.es> References: <45411497.9000901@yahoo.es> Message-ID: <1161893876.11547.30.camel@localhost.localdomain> On Thu, 2006-10-26 at 22:03 +0200, Gertjan Vinkesteijjn wrote: > 1. Gertjan Vinkesteijn > > * Benimeli, Spain, 15 kms from Denia > * retired ICT from http://www.getronics.com > * done 2 yrs aerodynamics, because playing in a dixieland band, I > did not finish my study, not advisable! > * Translating webpages to Dutch > * I did TeX and MetaFont with SIL, http://sil.org > * 10 yrs at CWI, http://cwi.nl > * Some experience as being a web-programmer on > the R&D dept. at Getronics > Welcome 5 times! Sometimes the list traffic is a bit light and people don't respond right away, but no need to re-send. Sounds like have a lot of great experience! Is there anything in particular you'd like to work on? Welcome to the docs team, Sam > [gertjan at gershwin ~]$ gpg --fingerprint A7E5D5F3 > pub 1024D/A7E5D5F3 2006-10-23 [expires: 2007-10-23] > Key fingerprint = AAB1 67F4 CFE3 E940 44BC 58F8 7B7B 482C A7E5 D5F3 > uid Gertjan Vinkesteijn (Dutch Docs Fedora) > > sub 1024g/9B4B4ED6 2006-10-23 [expires: 2007-10-23] > > [gertjan at gershwin ~]$ > > > > > ______________________________________________ > LLama Gratis a cualquier PC del Mundo. > Llamadas a fijos y m?viles desde 1 c?ntimo por minuto. > http://es.voice.yahoo.com > -- Sam Folk-Williams, RHCE Global Support Services From gertjanvinkje at yahoo.es Thu Oct 26 21:00:31 2006 From: gertjanvinkje at yahoo.es (Gertjan Vinkesteijn) Date: Thu, 26 Oct 2006 23:00:31 +0200 Subject: Self-Introduction: GertjanVinkesteijn In-Reply-To: <1161893876.11547.30.camel@localhost.localdomain> References: <45411497.9000901@yahoo.es> <1161893876.11547.30.camel@localhost.localdomain> Message-ID: <454121EF.7050607@yahoo.es> Sam Folk-Williams wrote: > On Thu, 2006-10-26 at 22:03 +0200, Gertjan Vinkesteijjn wrote: > >> 1. Gertjan Vinkesteijn >> >> * Benimeli, Spain, 15 kms from Denia >> * retired ICT from http://www.getronics.com >> * done 2 yrs aerodynamics, because playing in a dixieland band, I >> did not finish my study, not advisable! >> * Translating webpages to Dutch >> * I did TeX and MetaFont with SIL, http://sil.org >> * 10 yrs at CWI, http://cwi.nl >> * Some experience as being a web-programmer on >> the R&D dept. at Getronics >> >> > > Welcome 5 times! > > Sometimes the list traffic is a bit light and people don't respond right > away, but no need to re-send. Sounds like have a lot of great > experience! Is there anything in particular you'd like to work on? > > Welcome to the docs team, > Sam > Dear Sam, Sorry that I resend the message 5 times. It so that the last message is one that I am happy with. Because I have a nasty illness, which what I cannot work under pressure, I work not on the magazine... Things the Yum Info and the like seams relaxed enough for me. Every Personnel dept and managers knew of my illness and lots of co-workers: manic depression type 1, that is MD without the D, every now and then annoying for the people around you (as you noticed). Please forgive!! Thus manuals without time-pressure, just tell me where to start. regards, Gertjan >> [gertjan at gershwin ~]$ gpg --fingerprint A7E5D5F3 >> pub 1024D/A7E5D5F3 2006-10-23 [expires: 2007-10-23] >> Key fingerprint = AAB1 67F4 CFE3 E940 44BC 58F8 7B7B 482C A7E5 D5F3 >> uid Gertjan Vinkesteijn (Dutch Docs Fedora) >> >> sub 1024g/9B4B4ED6 2006-10-23 [expires: 2007-10-23] >> >> [gertjan at gershwin ~]$ >> >> >> >> >> ______________________________________________ >> LLama Gratis a cualquier PC del Mundo. >> Llamadas a fijos y m?viles desde 1 c?ntimo por minuto. >> http://es.voice.yahoo.com >> >> ______________________________________________ LLama Gratis a cualquier PC del Mundo. Llamadas a fijos y m?viles desde 1 c?ntimo por minuto. http://es.voice.yahoo.com From gertjanvinkje at yahoo.es Fri Oct 27 16:04:31 2006 From: gertjanvinkje at yahoo.es (Gertjan Vinkesteijn) Date: Fri, 27 Oct 2006 18:04:31 +0200 Subject: test Message-ID: <45422E0F.2000303@yahoo.es> this is a test, ignore this [gertjan at gershwin ~]$ gpg --finger A7E5D5F3 pub 1024D/A7E5D5F3 2006-10-23 [expires: 2007-10-23] Key fingerprint = AAB1 67F4 CFE3 E940 44BC 58F8 7B7B 482C A7E5 D5F3 uid Gertjan Vinkesteijn (Dutch Docs Fedora) sub 1024g/9B4B4ED6 2006-10-23 [expires: 2007-10-23] ______________________________________________ LLama Gratis a cualquier PC del Mundo. Llamadas a fijos y m?viles desde 1 c?ntimo por minuto. http://es.voice.yahoo.com From ricardobotelho at gmail.com Fri Oct 27 17:28:00 2006 From: ricardobotelho at gmail.com (Ricardo Botelho) Date: Fri, 27 Oct 2006 15:28:00 -0200 Subject: teste Message-ID: teste -- Ricardo Botelho Cel (24) 9228-2250 -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From gertjanvinkje at yahoo.es Sat Oct 28 13:22:43 2006 From: gertjanvinkje at yahoo.es (Gertjan Vinkesteijjn) Date: Sat, 28 Oct 2006 15:22:43 +0200 Subject: translating documents to dutch Message-ID: <454359A3.7060304@yahoo.es> I am interested in translating user documents info eg. into dutch, also manuals pages... pub 1024D/A7E5D5F3 2006-10-23 [expires: 2007-10-23] Key fingerprint = AAB1 67F4 CFE3 E940 44BC 58F8 7B7B 482C A7E5 D5F3 uid Gertjan Vinkesteijn (Dutch Docs Fedora) sub 1024g/9B4B4ED6 2006-10-23 [expires: 2007-10-23] ______________________________________________ LLama Gratis a cualquier PC del Mundo. Llamadas a fijos y m?viles desde 1 c?ntimo por minuto. http://es.voice.yahoo.com From stickster at gmail.com Sat Oct 28 20:34:46 2006 From: stickster at gmail.com (Paul W. Frields) Date: Sat, 28 Oct 2006 16:34:46 -0400 Subject: translating documents to dutch In-Reply-To: <454359A3.7060304@yahoo.es> References: <454359A3.7060304@yahoo.es> Message-ID: <1162067686.14356.6.camel@localhost.localdomain> On Sat, 2006-10-28 at 15:22 +0200, Gertjan Vinkesteijjn wrote: > I am interested in translating user documents info eg. into dutch, also > manuals pages... Hi Gertjan, You can find some information at: http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/L10N However, the fedora.redhat.com site currently provides the Translation Quick Start Guide, which is referenced in that page. The f.r.c site is having problems right now but you should be able to look at that guide by Monday or Tuesday, hopefully. -- Paul W. Frields, RHCE http://paul.frields.org/ gpg fingerprint: 3DA6 A0AC 6D58 FEC4 0233 5906 ACDB C937 BD11 3717 Fedora Project Board: http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Board Fedora Docs Project: http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/DocsProject -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: signature.asc Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 189 bytes Desc: This is a digitally signed message part URL: From gertjanvinkje at yahoo.es Sun Oct 29 05:02:19 2006 From: gertjanvinkje at yahoo.es (Gertjan Vinkesteijn) Date: Sun, 29 Oct 2006 06:02:19 +0100 Subject: translating documents to dutch In-Reply-To: <1162067686.14356.6.camel@localhost.localdomain> References: <454359A3.7060304@yahoo.es> <1162067686.14356.6.camel@localhost.localdomain> Message-ID: <454435DB.60603@yahoo.es> Paul W. Frields wrote: > On Sat, 2006-10-28 at 15:22 +0200, Gertjan Vinkesteijjn wrote: > >> I am interested in translating user documents info eg. into dutch, also >> manuals pages... >> > > Hi Gertjan, > > You can find some information at: > > http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/L10N > > However, the fedora.redhat.com site currently provides the Translation > Quick Start Guide, which is referenced in that page. The f.r.c site is > having problems right now but you should be able to look at that guide > by Monday or Tuesday, hopefully. > Info: Gertjan Vinkesteijn (gvinky) Hi Paul, I hope you don't mind that it will take some time for me to go through the 22 messages and I don't have a (drum)printer at this moment ;-( [gertjan at gershwin ~]$ gpg --finger A7E5D5F3 pub 1024D/A7E5D5F3 2006-10-23 [expires: 2007-10-23] Key fingerprint = AAB1 67F4 CFE3 E940 44BC 58F8 7B7B 482C A7E5 D5F3 uid Gertjan Vinkesteijn (Dutch Docs Fedora) sub 1024g/9B4B4ED6 2006-10-23 [expires: 2007-10-23] ______________________________________________ LLama Gratis a cualquier PC del Mundo. Llamadas a fijos y m?viles desde 1 c?ntimo por minuto. http://es.voice.yahoo.com From stickster at gmail.com Sun Oct 29 15:08:15 2006 From: stickster at gmail.com (Paul W. Frields) Date: Sun, 29 Oct 2006 10:08:15 -0500 Subject: [Fedora Project Wiki] Update of "Docs/Drafts/DesktopUserGuide/Tour" by JohnBabich In-Reply-To: <20061029104618.12059.31370@fpserv.linux.duke.edu> References: <20061029104618.12059.31370@fpserv.linux.duke.edu> Message-ID: <1162134495.30964.2.camel@localhost.localdomain> On Sun, 2006-10-29 at 10:46 +0000, fedorawiki-noreply at fedoraproject.org wrote: > The following page has been changed by JohnBabich: > http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Docs/Drafts/DesktopUserGuide/Tour > > The comment on the change is: > changed desktop illustration > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ > ## Wow! Is this really the default background? Also, is it possible to log in as a > ## generic user name such as 'User'? That way the screenshot shows "User's Home". > > - attachment:fc6desktop3.png > + attachment:fc6desktop.png > > The default desktop has three distinct areas. From top to bottom, the areas are: > * The ''menu panel'' Hint for screenshots: Constrain the width to no more than 500 pixels to limit both the download size for wiki readers, and to make sure that the graphic can be used in a multitude of media. I changed the one in the "Logging In" section as an example (also because it was out of date). There is a short bit on this in the Documentation Guide, but that's probably not really useful seeing as the site's down right now. FYI for later. -- Paul W. Frields, RHCE http://paul.frields.org/ gpg fingerprint: 3DA6 A0AC 6D58 FEC4 0233 5906 ACDB C937 BD11 3717 Fedora Project Board: http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Board Fedora Docs Project: http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/DocsProject -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: signature.asc Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 189 bytes Desc: This is a digitally signed message part URL: From jmbabich at gmail.com Mon Oct 30 07:31:02 2006 From: jmbabich at gmail.com (John Babich) Date: Mon, 30 Oct 2006 10:31:02 +0300 Subject: Navigation links for DUG Draft pages Message-ID: <9d2c731f0610292331se85930g16a0aa9c38c8a193@mail.gmail.com> Paul / Karsten: Now that we are directing people to the Desktop User Guide in the FC6 default home page in Firefox, I suggest that we add navigation links (such as top, previous, next) to make it easier to get around the DUG in the wiki. I can appreciate not using these controls when the goal was to produce valid Docbook code. Since the emphasis is now on leaving the DUG in wiki format, I suggest we make the wiki viewing experience as pleasant as possible. This is especially important for the new users who are our target audience. We can always strip these out if and when we want to generate documents in other formats. Is there already an approach in practice for this facility? John Babich GPG KEYID and Fingerprint pub 1024D/42AF1331 2006-08-12 [expires: 2008-08-11] Key fingerprint = CE8E 40BD 5CB8 8437 787F 8F57 D517 C1DF 42AF 1331 uid John M. Babich (Fedora Project) < jmbabich gmail com > sub 2048g/9C81B068 2006-08-12 [expires: 2008-08-11] -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From sundaram at fedoraproject.org Tue Oct 31 01:01:55 2006 From: sundaram at fedoraproject.org (Rahul Sundaram) Date: Tue, 31 Oct 2006 06:31:55 +0530 Subject: Release notes for the next release Message-ID: <4546A083.8080905@fedoraproject.org> Hi Can I start doing changes directly to the wiki for the next text release or are we planning to do any release note updates for FC6? The only major change that I wanted to get to the wider community is the list of common bugs and I did a separate announcement for that. https://www.redhat.com/archives/fedora-announce-list/2006-October/msg00015.html Is there anything else that requires a package update or can I proceed with the changes for the next release? Rahul From jjacross at mchsi.com Tue Oct 31 03:53:26 2006 From: jjacross at mchsi.com (Jason Cross) Date: Mon, 30 Oct 2006 21:53:26 -0600 Subject: Self-Introduction: Jason Cross Message-ID: <4546C8B6.7050806@mchsi.com> Self Introduction: Jason Aaron Cross Waite Park, Minnesota, USA *Job: Linux Systems Administrator *Company (University): St. John's University, Collegeville, Minnesota *Your goals in the Fedora Project: I'd like to write documentation, but I'd also like to be helpful to others in the Fedora Documentation Project as well. I can review documentation for technical accuracy and edit it for clarity. So whatever needs attention right now is what I'd like to work on. I'm completely up for suggestions concerning what I should start working on first. Historical qualifications: *What other projects or writing have you worked on in the past? I'm the only Linux system administrator at the university where I work so I'm responsible for all levels of Linux service and support from Help Desk to Desktop Administration to Server Administration. I spend a fair amount of time listening to users' needs and problems which I address accordingly. Quite often that involves writing short mini-howtos for the professors to pass onto lab assistants or students. *What level and type of computer skills do you have? I have a Bachelor of Arts in Computer Science from the university where I am currently employed (St. John's University). I'm an entirely self-taught Linux system administrator and have used Linux for my own personal use since I was in high school. *What other skills do you have that might be applicable? User interface design, other so-called soft skills (people skills), programming, etc. I'm an experienced Java programmer and am also comfortable in Perl. *What makes you an excellent match for the project? I find it rewarding to help others learn and use Linux. I've converted or at least introduced many of my friends to Linux. I hope that by contributing to the Fedora documentation project I can help even more people learn and use Linux. *GPG KEYID and fingerprint: jcross at lin1.cs.csbsju.edu 4% gpg --fingerprint C316B741 pub 1024D/C316B741 2006-10-28 [expires: 2007-10-28] Key fingerprint = 72BB 6B41 08D7 422C C440 0C68 0282 5153 C316 B741 uid Jason Aaron Cross (Fedora Docs Project) sub 2048g/6D5857E2 2006-10-28 [expires: 2007-10-28] -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: signature.asc Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 251 bytes Desc: OpenPGP digital signature URL: From lxtnow at gmail.com Tue Oct 31 04:02:02 2006 From: lxtnow at gmail.com (SmootherFrOgZ) Date: Tue, 31 Oct 2006 00:02:02 -0400 Subject: Self-Introduction: Jason Cross In-Reply-To: <4546C8B6.7050806@mchsi.com> References: <4546C8B6.7050806@mchsi.com> Message-ID: <62bc09df0610302002v5c639a2fkfd587d8809ebdb58@mail.gmail.com> hi, Welcome on board...;-) Xavier 2006/10/30, Jason Cross : > > Self Introduction: > Jason Aaron Cross > Waite Park, Minnesota, USA > > *Job: Linux Systems Administrator > *Company (University): St. John's University, Collegeville, Minnesota > *Your goals in the Fedora Project: > I'd like to write documentation, but I'd also like to be helpful to > others in the Fedora Documentation Project as well. I can review > documentation for technical accuracy and edit it for clarity. So > whatever needs attention right now is what I'd like to work on. I'm > completely up for suggestions concerning what I should start working on > first. > > Historical qualifications: > *What other projects or writing have you worked on in the past? > I'm the only Linux system administrator at the university where I work > so I'm responsible for all levels of Linux service and support from Help > Desk to Desktop Administration to Server Administration. I spend a fair > amount of time listening to users' needs and problems which I address > accordingly. Quite often that involves writing short mini-howtos for > the professors to pass onto lab assistants or students. > *What level and type of computer skills do you have? > I have a Bachelor of Arts in Computer Science from the university where > I am currently employed (St. John's University). I'm an entirely > self-taught Linux system administrator and have used Linux for my own > personal use since I was in high school. > *What other skills do you have that might be applicable? User interface > design, other so-called soft skills (people skills), programming, etc. > I'm an experienced Java programmer and am also comfortable in Perl. > *What makes you an excellent match for the project? > I find it rewarding to help others learn and use Linux. I've converted > or at least introduced many of my friends to Linux. I hope that by > contributing to the Fedora documentation project I can help even more > people learn and use Linux. > > > *GPG KEYID and fingerprint: > jcross at lin1.cs.csbsju.edu 4% gpg --fingerprint C316B741 > pub 1024D/C316B741 2006-10-28 [expires: 2007-10-28] > Key fingerprint = 72BB 6B41 08D7 422C C440 0C68 0282 5153 C316 B741 > uid Jason Aaron Cross (Fedora Docs Project) > > sub 2048g/6D5857E2 2006-10-28 [expires: 2007-10-28] > > > > -- > fedora-docs-list mailing list > fedora-docs-list at redhat.com > To unsubscribe: > https://www.redhat.com/mailman/listinfo/fedora-docs-list > > > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From samfw at redhat.com Tue Oct 31 11:48:22 2006 From: samfw at redhat.com (Sam Folk-Williams) Date: Tue, 31 Oct 2006 06:48:22 -0500 Subject: Self-Introduction: Jason Cross In-Reply-To: <4546C8B6.7050806@mchsi.com> References: <4546C8B6.7050806@mchsi.com> Message-ID: <1162295302.9687.3.camel@samfw.rdu.redhat.com> On Mon, 2006-10-30 at 21:53 -0600, Jason Cross wrote: > Self Introduction: > Jason Aaron Cross > Waite Park, Minnesota, USA > > *Job: Linux Systems Administrator > *Company (University): St. John's University, Collegeville, Minnesota > *Your goals in the Fedora Project: > I'd like to write documentation, but I'd also like to be helpful to > others in the Fedora Documentation Project as well. I can review > documentation for technical accuracy and edit it for clarity. So > whatever needs attention right now is what I'd like to work on. I'm > completely up for suggestions concerning what I should start working on > first. > > Historical qualifications: > *What other projects or writing have you worked on in the past? > I'm the only Linux system administrator at the university where I work > so I'm responsible for all levels of Linux service and support from Help > Desk to Desktop Administration to Server Administration. I spend a fair > amount of time listening to users' needs and problems which I address > accordingly. Quite often that involves writing short mini-howtos for > the professors to pass onto lab assistants or students. > *What level and type of computer skills do you have? > I have a Bachelor of Arts in Computer Science from the university where > I am currently employed (St. John's University). I'm an entirely > self-taught Linux system administrator and have used Linux for my own > personal use since I was in high school. > *What other skills do you have that might be applicable? User interface > design, other so-called soft skills (people skills), programming, etc. > I'm an experienced Java programmer and am also comfortable in Perl. > *What makes you an excellent match for the project? > I find it rewarding to help others learn and use Linux. I've converted > or at least introduced many of my friends to Linux. I hope that by > contributing to the Fedora documentation project I can help even more > people learn and use Linux. > Jason, Welcome to the docs project! To get started check out the list of ideas that need help: http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/DocsProject/DocIdeas Also, it sounds to me like you would make a great Ambassador for Minnesota! Check out the Ambassador project here: http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Ambassadors -Sam > > *GPG KEYID and fingerprint: > jcross at lin1.cs.csbsju.edu 4% gpg --fingerprint C316B741 > pub 1024D/C316B741 2006-10-28 [expires: 2007-10-28] > Key fingerprint = 72BB 6B41 08D7 422C C440 0C68 0282 5153 C316 B741 > uid Jason Aaron Cross (Fedora Docs Project) > > sub 2048g/6D5857E2 2006-10-28 [expires: 2007-10-28] > > -- > fedora-docs-list mailing list > fedora-docs-list at redhat.com > To unsubscribe: > https://www.redhat.com/mailman/listinfo/fedora-docs-list -- Sam Folk-Williams, RHCE Global Support Services From gertjanvinkje at yahoo.es Tue Oct 31 12:51:21 2006 From: gertjanvinkje at yahoo.es (Gertjan Vinkesteijn) Date: Tue, 31 Oct 2006 13:51:21 +0100 Subject: xine-lib gxine xine-ui Message-ID: <454746C9.1020805@yahoo.es> Dear reader, Sorry, this is the wrong list for it, can anybody tellme where to put it? I have the whole package working Fedora6 in /usr/local on 64-bits... is that something to release for extras ? pub 1024D/3FC1E76E 2006-10-29 [expires: 2007-10-29] Key fingerprint = 4E9F 82A6 8303 0D6E 40CC B41A E52C 22AE 3FC1 E76E uid GerardJan Vinkesteijn (New! FedDocProj) sub 1024g/BC77793E 2006-10-29 [expires: 2007-10-29] ______________________________________________ LLama Gratis a cualquier PC del Mundo. Llamadas a fijos y m?viles desde 1 c?ntimo por minuto. http://es.voice.yahoo.com From samfw at redhat.com Tue Oct 31 13:06:29 2006 From: samfw at redhat.com (Sam Folk-Williams) Date: Tue, 31 Oct 2006 08:06:29 -0500 Subject: xine-lib gxine xine-ui In-Reply-To: <454746C9.1020805@yahoo.es> References: <454746C9.1020805@yahoo.es> Message-ID: <1162299990.11080.0.camel@samfw.rdu.redhat.com> On Tue, 2006-10-31 at 13:51 +0100, Gertjan Vinkesteijn wrote: > Dear reader, > > Sorry, this is the wrong list for it, can anybody tellme where to put it? > Try fedora-devel-list https://www.redhat.com/mailman/listinfo/fedora-devel-list Sam > I have the whole package working Fedora6 in /usr/local on 64-bits... is > that something to release for extras ? > > pub 1024D/3FC1E76E 2006-10-29 [expires: 2007-10-29] > Key fingerprint = 4E9F 82A6 8303 0D6E 40CC B41A E52C 22AE 3FC1 E76E > uid GerardJan Vinkesteijn (New! FedDocProj) > > > sub 1024g/BC77793E 2006-10-29 [expires: 2007-10-29] > > > > > ______________________________________________ > LLama Gratis a cualquier PC del Mundo. > Llamadas a fijos y m?viles desde 1 c?ntimo por minuto. > http://es.voice.yahoo.com > -- Sam Folk-Williams, RHCE Global Support Services From gertjanvinkje at yahoo.es Tue Oct 31 17:23:51 2006 From: gertjanvinkje at yahoo.es (Gertjan Vinkesteijn) Date: Tue, 31 Oct 2006 18:23:51 +0100 Subject: xine-lib xine-ui gxine In-Reply-To: <20061031143403.664b9b7f@python3.es.egwn.lan> References: <45475043.6070504@yahoo.es> <20061031143403.664b9b7f@python3.es.egwn.lan> Message-ID: <454786A7.8000103@yahoo.es> Matthias Saou wrote: > Gertjan Vinkesteijn wrote : > >> I have the Subject field programs compiled and working on 64-bits >> Fedora6, what shall we do with it? > > Errr... watch some videos? :-) > > Matthias > I went to fedora-dev-list mail group and got the above answer. Of course I want to watch videos, from non-porno sites. For me is this brrr... typical, what do you think of the american culture: Is there any (Indira Ghandi)... Errr, I lived in Texas, and give you a good answer on that, in german, dutch, french, english and some spanish! fuck... Gertjan ______________________________________________ LLama Gratis a cualquier PC del Mundo. Llamadas a fijos y m?viles desde 1 c?ntimo por minuto. http://es.voice.yahoo.com From gertjanvinkje at yahoo.es Tue Oct 31 18:52:14 2006 From: gertjanvinkje at yahoo.es (Gertjan Vinkesteijn) Date: Tue, 31 Oct 2006 19:52:14 +0100 Subject: Self-Introduction: Jason Cross In-Reply-To: <4546C8B6.7050806@mchsi.com> References: <4546C8B6.7050806@mchsi.com> Message-ID: <45479B5E.3040900@yahoo.es> -----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- Hash: SHA1 Jason Cross wrote: > Self Introduction: > Jason Aaron Cross > Waite Park, Minnesota, USA > > *Job: Linux Systems Administrator > *Company (University): St. John's University, Collegeville, Minnesota > *Your goals in the Fedora Project: > I'd like to write documentation, but I'd also like to be helpful to > others in the Fedora Documentation Project as well. I can review > documentation for technical accuracy and edit it for clarity. So > whatever needs attention right now is what I'd like to work on. I'm > completely up for suggestions concerning what I should start working on > first. > > Historical qualifications: > *What other projects or writing have you worked on in the past? > I'm the only Linux system administrator at the university where I work > so I'm responsible for all levels of Linux service and support from Help > Desk to Desktop Administration to Server Administration. I spend a fair > amount of time listening to users' needs and problems which I address > accordingly. Quite often that involves writing short mini-howtos for > the professors to pass onto lab assistants or students. > *What level and type of computer skills do you have? > I have a Bachelor of Arts in Computer Science from the university where > I am currently employed (St. John's University). I'm an entirely > self-taught Linux system administrator and have used Linux for my own > personal use since I was in high school. > *What other skills do you have that might be applicable? User interface > design, other so-called soft skills (people skills), programming, etc. > I'm an experienced Java programmer and am also comfortable in Perl. > *What makes you an excellent match for the project? > I find it rewarding to help others learn and use Linux. I've converted > or at least introduced many of my friends to Linux. I hope that by > contributing to the Fedora documentation project I can help even more > people learn and use Linux. > > > *GPG KEYID and fingerprint: > jcross at lin1.cs.csbsju.edu 4% gpg --fingerprint C316B741 > pub 1024D/C316B741 2006-10-28 [expires: 2007-10-28] > Key fingerprint = 72BB 6B41 08D7 422C C440 0C68 0282 5153 C316 B741 > uid Jason Aaron Cross (Fedora Docs Project) > > sub 2048g/6D5857E2 2006-10-28 [expires: 2007-10-28] > > Thank Jason, for your Self-Introduction. Also I have been systems administrator at universities, and give technical support for mini-supers (Convex, now HP). I was 10 yrs at http://cwi.nl , doin office automation on a Dec 11/23, so without separate I&D space and 4 8" floppies !!! We wrote a multi user editor for 4 terminals, but when the console started with nroff, the beast started swapping on 8" floppy. We bought later an 11/34, what had the same problem as not having s&d, the researchers who were lucky had a 11/45 and later on the 2nd Vax 11/780 in Europe. After those ten years I went to SIL, who are doing ( http://sil.org ) in 6500 languages in the world, I could do programming and bringing Berkeley Unix on a 11/73 from Dec with Tex and MetaFont. We printed interlineair text, eg. Zapotec-Spanish next to each other, where the right column was the footnote! After that I did the boring part: counseling and earning (lots of) money, but that went away again because of a nasty illness I have. That is my story... -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: GnuPG v1.4.5 (GNU/Linux) Comment: Using GnuPG with Mozilla - http://enigmail.mozdev.org iD8DBQFFR5te5Swirj/B524RArz5AJ0aAH8Yvc9hHSSwQ0U/2Js8TLt1xQCbBkFk HBR3HycmToKBxjf0PCu8DDE= =Qgot -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- ______________________________________________ LLama Gratis a cualquier PC del Mundo. Llamadas a fijos y m?viles desde 1 c?ntimo por minuto. http://es.voice.yahoo.com